# Jack White is a genius? really?



## Ancestor (Aug 24, 2011)

Music & nightlife | Jack White displays his guitar genius with the Raconteurs | Seattle Times Newspaper

I just don't see it. Anyone else care to elaborate for or against?


----------



## yingmin (Aug 24, 2011)

I've always been pretty baffled by it, myself.


----------



## rjnix_0329 (Aug 24, 2011)

It's difficult for me to have this debate...I really do love Jack White's song writing and I really enjoy all of his projects. By no means has he put in the scholarly work or done the drills that many of the amazing young guitarists from this forum have. He doesn't buy the newest, cleanest equipment or work with guitar companies to produce amazing signature models. His knowledge of chord structures, harmony, and polyrhythms can't even compare to many people around here. But there is just something about the fact that he doesn't care, that he makes songs sound good by not really being that good...I don't know. Maybe saying he is a GUITAR genius is a mistake, but I don't think I can say he isn't a genius in some capacity.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 24, 2011)

listen to carolina drama with your eyes closed, the imagery he creates through his lyrics/voice/music is genius. that song actually makes my heart beat fast when i listen to it.


----------



## mikemueller2112 (Aug 24, 2011)

I can understand some of the praise he gets, the music he writes is very simple, but that is not to say its bad. He's by no means a virtuoso, or a musical genius in the sense of theoretical knowledge. The love for him, like the user above said, comes from his "I don't give a shit what you think" kind of mentality. It kind of bugs me that he gets branded as a genius, because most of what he is doing, has been done by a lot of the blues greats in the early-mid 1900's. He's more of a songwriter, not a composer. His songs he uses to express whatever emotions, and I think he captures them quite well. He does something maybe different than a lot of mainstream rock/pop artists, but so far from being revolutionary. I never know if I love or hate him, it's also kind of made me question why he's in all these guitar magazines...I guess because he's popular.


----------



## Hollowway (Aug 24, 2011)

Ah, people throw the genius term around pretty loosely. I really like Jack White, but I don't know he is to guitar what Einstein was to physics. When a writer indicates that someone is a genius more often that not it's a reflection of the writer's limited vocabulary rather than a true estimation of someone's ability.


----------



## Ancestor (Aug 24, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> Ah, people throw the genius term around pretty loosely. I really like Jack White, but I don't know he is to guitar what Einstein was to physics. When a writer indicates that someone is a genius more often that not it's a reflection of the writer's limited vocabulary rather than a true estimation of someone's ability.



i know. i mean django, les paul, hendrix... white? i'd be more inclined to say tom morello.

something about it rubs me the wrong way. i always liked white stripes in a sort of ironic way.


----------



## Floppystrings (Aug 24, 2011)

He is pretty creative, but I don't really like his music.

Is he a genius? I think he probably is technically.


----------



## Floppystrings (Aug 24, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> Ah, people throw the genius term around pretty loosely. I really like Jack White, but I don't know he is to guitar what Einstein was to physics. When a writer indicates that someone is a genius more often that not it's a reflection of the writer's limited vocabulary rather than a true estimation of someone's ability.



Genius is a label given to people with a certain IQ, it isn't really an opinion.


----------



## toiletstand (Aug 24, 2011)

hes a guitar genius to some people out there. maybe not to most of the people on this forum though haha


----------



## Aurochs34 (Aug 24, 2011)

The answer is no, he is not lol: jkjk, please don't hate). I've never been much of a fan, but as others have already alluded to, I think you have to acknowledge to one degree or another what he's contributed to contemporary music and guitar work, as such.



Floppystrings said:


> Genius is a label given to people with a certain IQ, it isn't really an opinion.



This is interesting to me. How would you apply this in this case (guitar IQ?)?


----------



## ROAR (Aug 24, 2011)

That article is from 2008 haha


----------



## Floppystrings (Aug 24, 2011)

Aurochs34 said:


> This is interesting to me. How would you apply this in this case (guitar IQ?)?



I would say a true genius would be a crappy technical guitarist, and probably stand out as a minimalist.

When is the last time you saw a genius with fantastic coordination?  Football playing rocket scientists, with giant brains.


----------



## sessionswan (Aug 24, 2011)

I wasn't sold on him until I saw the Raconteurs live one night a few years back. He's certainly not going to sweeps you to death, nor will he arpeggiate the pants off you however he is most certainly the real deal when it comes to playing the guitar. I walked into that show with a very "meh" attitude on him, I walked out thinking differently.


----------



## Fiction (Aug 24, 2011)

Well seeing Jack White is my man-crush, I will agree he is. We have enough bedroom musicians creating music with polyrythmns and sweeps and all that, sometimes you just need to chill the fuck out to some simple blues with some cave(wo)man drumming behind it.

Also, listen to 'The Dead Weather' one of his more experimental bands, that is pretty creative. Its what he can do with such a simple approach to music that makes him, somewhat a musical genius.


----------



## synrgy (Aug 24, 2011)

I'll just leave this here.


----------



## liamh (Aug 24, 2011)

^ Pretty clever but it still sounds terrible.


----------



## RubenBernges (Aug 24, 2011)

It Might Get Loud was a really inspiring movie, and I'm saying that even though I'm not a fan of Jack White, The Edge or Jimmy Page. It made me realize there's more to music than being complex and technical and stuff while I was a real snob listening to nothing but Jazz and Fusion.

I still agree that calling him a guitar genius is quite far off the mark though, but really, it's impossible who or what is a "genius", anyway.


----------



## USMarine75 (Aug 24, 2011)

He is this generations Kurt Cobain... they said the same about him back in the day. It's probably the way I feel about Rivers Cuomo and his "simplistic" melodies and songwriting (although he actually might be a "genius" lol).


----------



## USMarine75 (Aug 24, 2011)

100 Greatest Guitarists: Jack White | Rolling Stone Music | Lists

"White has become the hottest new thing on six strings by celebrating the oldest tricks in the book: distortion, feedback, plantation blues, the 1960s-Michigan riff terrorism of the Stooges and the MC5. Onstage, decked out like a peppermint dandy, he violates classic covers (Dolly Parton's "Jolene," Bob Dylan's "Isis") with fireball chords and primal, bent-string scream. He is also an acute orchestrator in the studio, stirring the scratchy-78s atmosphere of Blind Willie Johnson sides, 1970s punk and Led Zeppelin-style drama into his own howl. Don't pay attention to the notes; White is not a clean soloist. He's a blowtorch."


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 24, 2011)

I don't blame Jack for doing what he loves, but I do blame pompous rock critics for drooling all over it.

The term genius shouldn't be tossed around loosely. For me, there are only a handful of geniuses to grace the rock stage. Zappa is at the top of that list. I might include Fripp and Belew as well. Other than that, I dunno... I wouldn't put Jack in that class or caliber of musicianship. His music is interesting, but it is derivative in that he wears his influences on his sleeve.


----------



## Lagtastic (Aug 24, 2011)

Meh... Never been a fan. However, props to him for doing what he loves and making good money doing it.


----------



## flo (Aug 24, 2011)

He writes music with the heart, not with the intellect. That's why his music is touching so many people I guess. But as many of you stated, genius is the wrong word. An artist, not a mathematician.


----------



## thatguy87 (Aug 24, 2011)

Well I have a biased fanboy opinion. I think he's very good at what he does which is make good music. I can listen to his stuff all day. Except for the Dead Weather... which I hate.


----------



## oddcam (Aug 24, 2011)

the man dresses funny, acts funny, keeps his life mysterious and makes throwback music with 70s style classic rock riffs mixed with modern elements.

hes not a genius, hes just a counterculture icon who happens to play more than one instrument. compared to the bulk of his fans, he is infinitely more musically talented. compared to professional musicians or songwriters, his strength is that he doesn't make things too complex.

in short - he embodies American ideals from multiple generations (baby boomers, pissed gen-xrs, hipsters, and more...) and backgrounds. He is first and foremost a musical celebrity. In the celebrity world, possessing the aforementioned talents DOES make you a genius.

But not here buddy


----------



## Demiurge (Aug 24, 2011)

The term "genius" in music obviously gets misused. 

Jack White may not be a literal genius, but he has figured-out something musically that many have tried and failed to do: prolifically producing cool music while carving-out his own niche. I sure as hell haven't been able to do that myself!


----------



## steve1 (Aug 24, 2011)

i think it takes a certain something to write a riff as simple as 7 Nation Army.

i don't know if i'd call any musician a genius.


----------



## tuneinrecords (Aug 24, 2011)

The 2 CD's by The Dead Weather are 2 of my favorites. I don't think Jack White cares about technical skill or how great of a guitar player he may or may not be. He's a musician first and foremost and that's a lot more than a lot of guitar players can say for themselves out there. It's nice to be able to play fast and and shred arpeggios and all that, but it's not gonna make you any more original or interesting to listen to. 

When I was younger AC/DC was my favorite band and I had friends who didn't like them because they were too simple and not shreddy enough. It's not about that. Beauty lies in simplicity. Jack White channels energy through his music and that's what makes it special. There is a lot of technically demanding stuff out there that completely lacks this energy. Jimmy Page as well created some of the most memorable music ever and there are people who can play faster and more technical than him, but his legacy will live on while a lot of theirs won't.


----------



## linchpin (Aug 24, 2011)

He is a good musician....... but genius is a bit much


----------



## drgamble (Aug 24, 2011)

Well let's see, he is a minimalist and doesn't rely on skill as much as he does with image, sound, marketability. You have to ask yourself, if you knew everything there is to know about music, does that make you more of a genius than someone has taken their limited skill set and turned it into a few million dollars? I vote for the latter.


----------



## in-pursuit (Aug 24, 2011)

I somewhat agree with a lot of the previous posts, but I get the impression that the only people hailing him as a great musician are those who enjoy his music. kind of like people who say lars is the best drummer in the world just because they love metallica's music, if you know what I mean. 

I can certainly appreciate the fact that he has a large fan base, but in this day and age commercial viability and popularity does not equal musical credibility. many years ago before there was any large scale and widespread proliferation of music to the masses, being popular actually meant something (this applies equally to all artistic forms) because being well known was a direct result of actually being gifted at your art. is Britney Spears a musical genius? no, she is just hugely popular. is Jack White doing anything that hadn't already been done before he was even born? not particularly. to call Jack White a genius is pretty much on par with saying Andrew Stockdale from Wolfmother is a genius I think


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 24, 2011)

I have hated him since i was 13 snd still do.

He doesnt event djent.


----------



## chronocide (Aug 24, 2011)

in-pursuit said:


> I can certainly appreciate the fact that he has a large fan base, but in this day and age commercial viability and popularity does not equal musical credibility. many years ago before there was any large scale and widespread proliferation of music to the masses, being popular actually meant something (this applies equally to all artistic forms) because being well known was a direct result of actually being gifted at your art.



I'm afraid I don't think it's EVER been an indicator of credibility. Hundreds of years ago there were still quite possibly folks about that dwarfed all their famous contemporaries in ability but never managed or had the chance to convince someone to give them their patronage.


----------



## drgamble (Aug 24, 2011)

In the world of capitalism, one has to associate a certain level of success as genius. Myself, I am a blue collar worker and can only hope to retire by the time I'm 80 given the current political/economic future of this country. I've been playing/writing/recording/touring for 19 years now. It is very hard to make a career out of music, much less retire from a career of music. The people that "make it" in my mind are geniuses in one way or another. Anybody that can retire in their 20s or 30s that can retire must have resulted from some kind of genius. 

I've tested as genius on IQ tests my score was a 136. As stated above, I've played music for almost 20 years now and work a blue collar job. I hope that I can retire before 80, and anyone that can play music for a living and retire in their 30s is truly genius to me. If I was a true genius, I would've figured that out by now.


----------



## chronocide (Aug 24, 2011)

drgamble said:


> I've tested as genius on IQ tests my score was a 136.



I though genius IQ was 140 or 180, depending on whose scale you use? Not that IQ tests mean anything at all, right enough.


----------



## Ancestor (Aug 24, 2011)

Demiurge said:


> The term "genius" in music obviously gets misused.
> 
> Jack White may not be a literal genius, but he has figured-out something musically that many have tried and failed to do: prolifically producing cool music while carving-out his own niche. I sure as hell haven't been able to do that myself!



right. that's true. i'll agree that he's successful.


----------



## drgamble (Aug 24, 2011)

Yeah, I guess I actually fit into the highly gifted category, but what does that really mean? I guess if I can retire by 40 I'll be ok.


----------



## thatguy87 (Aug 24, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> I have hated him since i was 13 snd still do.
> 
> He doesnt event djent.



BOOOO haha


----------



## Dayn (Aug 24, 2011)

What's a Jack White?


----------



## SenorDingDong (Aug 24, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> Ah, people throw the genius term around pretty loosely. I really like Jack White, but I don't know he is to guitar what Einstein was to physics. When a writer indicates that someone is a genius more often that not it's a reflection of the writer's limited vocabulary rather than a true estimation of someone's ability.



This. You'd be surprised at how minute some supposed 'writers' vocabulary truly is, as if they had never even heard of a thesaurus. I enjoy White's playing, but genius? It scarcely elevates above average. I could understand if they had been talking about William Ackerman, as that mans playing exudes emotion, but White? Not by a long shot.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 24, 2011)

anyone that dosen't like jack white:
turn this up LOUD and close your eyes, listen to the story:


----------



## sol niger 333 (Aug 24, 2011)

I rang up the common sense and good taste hotline as well as the convention for people who aren't fucking brainwashed. Both said "NO"



He's never thought, song written, OR played out of the box imo. Anyone can play folk music and tell stories. I suppose Meg White is genius too? Freddy T or Adam Jones are genius. Jack White is just another product in a box for middle of the roaders and soccer Moms.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 24, 2011)

sol niger 333 said:


> I rang up the common sense and good taste hotline as well as the convention for people who aren't fucking morons. Both said "NO"
> 
> 
> 
> He's never thought OR played out of the box.



your ignorence and attitude escape me


----------



## Ancestor (Aug 24, 2011)

Thrashmanzac said:


> anyone that dosen't like jack white:
> turn this up LOUD and close your eyes, listen to the story:




that's cool. i listened to as much as i could stand. i just don't get it. i guess i won't. 

where is the genius of it? the lyrics are ok. the playing is boring to me. maybe it's because i'm a guitarist? this stuff probably sounds different to people who don't play.

and the vocals are so whiny. man, it just... argh! i can't stand it! i'm sorry i'm sorry. i know people love it. 

i guess it's like king diamond. a lot of people hate him, but i think he's awesome. i don't get bent out of shape when people say they can't deal. just different tastes i guess.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 24, 2011)

fair enough man, i think the whole point of jacks music to me is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. like he may not be a techincal guitarist, or have a voice with the range of devin townsend, but the way his songs come together to produce the final piece of music astounds me. sort of like the kills to me, very simple music technically speaking, but there is something apealing about the minimalist nature of their music. raw and pure imo


----------



## LamaSabachthani (Aug 25, 2011)

I think it is gross flattery to call him a genius - he writes some catchy songs and it sounds good, has all the stuff about rock music that most people love i.e. fuzzy distortion, blues scales and riffs. Accessible. 

I think a 'genius' is certainly giving him too much credit though. I don't really see anything he's doing as being revolutionary or the sublime height of straightforward rock music.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 25, 2011)

i think calling jack whites music "straightforward rock music" shows that you are maybe not too familiar with alot of his work with the dead weather and the racenteurs, as well as his numerous colaborations. i think calling him a musical genius is less of a stretch than saying all he plays/writes is straightforward rock music.


----------



## Tranquilliser (Aug 25, 2011)

Jack White a genius? Not really.
I can see how people can like him, but I think it's a bit much to call him a genius.

If you want to see (or more accurately, hear) musical genius, you *cannot* go past Devin Townsend.
And by that I mean his whole career -
From Strapping Young Lad, to Ocean Machine, to Ziltoid, to Synchestra, and the DTP quadrilogy - and whatever the future undoubtedly holds (Still waiting for Ziltoid2, haha) the skill in composure, and the musicianship, not to mention his ridiculous vocal skill - *that *is a musical genius.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 25, 2011)

Tranquilliser said:


> Jack White a genius? Not really.
> I can see how people can like him, but I think it's a bit much to call him a genius.
> 
> If you want to see (or more accurately, hear) musical genius, you *cannot* go past Devin Townsend.
> ...



i totally agree man 
devin was the first to come to mind when thinking about who i would consider a musical genius


----------



## SkapocalypseNow (Aug 25, 2011)

Is he a genius? No, not by any technical means.
Does he make music that enough people consider him a genius? Obviously.

This coming from someone who enjoys his music to a great degree as well. I love what Jack White does. Anything from that raw stripped down shit from the early White Stripes, to... well, hell, even that song he did with Alicia Keys. He's no genius, but damn if he doesn't make every musical endeavor he's done work for him. Some more than others, obviously (I'm looking at you, Dead Weather), but still.


----------



## yingmin (Aug 25, 2011)

Tranquilliser said:


> Jack White a genius? Not really.
> I can see how people can like him, but I think it's a bit much to call him a genius.
> 
> If you want to see (or more accurately, hear) musical genius, you *cannot* go past Devin Townsend.
> ...



I respect the shit out of Devin Townsend, and recognize that he's an incredibly talented dude, but I've never really liked anything he's done. At least I can understand why someone would consider him a genius, though. Jack White? I've heard White Stripes, Raconteurs, Dead Weather, all of that, and nothing sounded like anything new to me. I really can't figure out what thrashmanzac thinks is so fresh about any of it, and it definitely is pretty straightforward for the most part. I'm not even saying it's necessarily bad; I just don't get the hype.


----------



## LamaSabachthani (Aug 25, 2011)

Thrashmanzac said:


> i think calling jack whites music "straightforward rock music" shows that you are maybe not too familiar with alot of his work with the dead weather and the racenteurs, as well as his numerous colaborations. i think calling him a musical genius is less of a stretch than saying all he plays/writes is straightforward rock music.



Seemed fairly unremarkable to me to be honest? 

Not saying it's bad, just that what I had heard seemed pretty ... normal?


----------



## LamaSabachthani (Aug 25, 2011)

yingmin said:


> it definitely is pretty straightforward for the most part. I'm not even saying it's necessarily bad; I just don't get the hype.



Thank you sir: pretty much the same way I feel.


----------



## elq (Aug 25, 2011)

I don't care for his music and try my damnedest to avoid it. 




Take a critical listen. The piano performance is hackneyed and the singing is cringe worthy. But I can't help it - I'm moved by it.



When I was a young'n, I took guitar lessons. One day my teacher, a hippy with a tele who just LOVED jazz, remarked that I was struggling between two very different goals - being a musician vs being a guitarist. At the time, I suspected he was just sick of listening to testament during my lessons, but I eventually decided that he wasn't just a cranky old man. 

Playing a guitar with technical perfection is a terrific accomplishment, but it doesn't get you any closer to moving people with your creations - being a good musician. 

Jack White is a piss poor guitarist and singer (IMHO) but he's a damn fine musician.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 25, 2011)

^


----------



## Hollowway (Aug 25, 2011)

elq said:


> Playing a guitar with technical perfection is a terrific accomplishment, but it doesn't get you any closer to moving people with your creations - being a good musician.
> 
> Jack White is a piss poor guitarist and singer (IMHO) but he's a damn fine musician.



QFT. Add Kurt Cobain, Bob Dylan, Bruce Springsteen, etc to that list.

Edit: But don't fool yourself - he _was_ sick of Testament.


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 25, 2011)

no one can get sick of testament


----------



## Ancestor (Aug 25, 2011)

Thrashmanzac said:


> no one can get sick of testament



that is so true. they are so amazingly good.


----------



## Ancestor (Aug 25, 2011)

Thrashmanzac said:


> fair enough man, i think the whole point of jacks music to me is that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. like he may not be a techincal guitarist, or have a voice with the range of devin townsend, but the way his songs come together to produce the final piece of music astounds me. sort of like the kills to me, very simple music technically speaking, but there is something apealing about the minimalist nature of their music. raw and pure imo



thanks for having the patience to try to show me the good in it!


----------



## Hollowway (Aug 25, 2011)

Thrashmanzac said:


> no one can get sick of testament



Haha, tell that to the small town hippy guitar teachers! It's practically a right of passage that in eighth or ninth grade you go to the local mom and pop music store and get a teacher who wants to teach jazz standards and blues rock, and gives you that sort of forced, polite smile when you show him what you're really wanting to learn.


----------



## elq (Aug 25, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> Edit: But don't fool yourself - he _was_ sick of Testament.







Thrashmanzac said:


> no one can get sick of testament





Ancestor said:


> that is so true. they are so amazingly good.




So a bit after the musician vs. guitarist lesson we started working on this book -







A few months into Leavitt, as I was setting up for a lesson and my teacher said "remember that band of yours we worked on last year? One of my bass students brought their new album in today... they had a really hip line", whence he started playing the opening riff of souls of black on his tele with a huge smile on his face.

So it turns out that not even old jazzers can stay away from the awesomeness that is testament.


----------



## elq (Aug 25, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> Haha, tell that to the small town hippy guitar teachers! It's practically a right of passage that in eighth or ninth grade you go to the local mom and pop music store and get a teacher who wants to teach jazz standards and blues rock, and gives you that sort of forced, polite smile when you show him what you're really wanting to learn.



QFT.

Though, oddly enough I got far more out of lessons with the jazz dude than I did the teacher who desperately wanted to be CC DeVille


----------



## Hollowway (Aug 25, 2011)

Holy crap, I used that same book! I had the obligatory Mel Bay first, but ended up with that. These guys must have an annual meeting and weekly newsletter or something!


----------



## Hollowway (Aug 25, 2011)

elq said:


> QFT.
> 
> Though, oddly enough I got far more out of lessons with the jazz dude than I did the teacher who desperately wanted to be CC DeVille



Yeah, I joke about my guy, but I actually got pretty good with the jazz standards, and to this day I'm grateful for the crazy-ass jazz chords I had to learn and the effect it had (has) on my writing.


----------



## petereanima (Aug 25, 2011)

Its just - again - the lightheaded use of a superlative...it happens on here all the time also...


----------



## Ironbird (Aug 25, 2011)

Not a fan of him, but this write-up:

"White has become the hottest new thing on six strings by celebrating the oldest tricks in the book: distortion, feedback, plantation blues, the 1960s-Michigan riff terrorism of the Stooges and the MC5. Onstage, decked out like a peppermint dandy, he violates classic covers (Dolly Parton's "Jolene," Bob Dylan's "Isis") with fireball chords and primal, bent-string scream. He is also an acute orchestrator in the studio, stirring the scratchy-78s atmosphere of Blind Willie Johnson sides, 1970s punk and Led Zeppelin-style drama into his own howl. Don't pay attention to the notes; White is not a clean soloist. He's a blowtorch."

This is terrible.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Aug 25, 2011)

For the record, if you don't like Testament, you don't like metal. 


Back OT:

Genius is a term thrown too loosely, but if there's anything you can call Jack White, it's prolific. He's done more in 3 bands than most of us have ever done with even 1. Criticize his playing all you want but his written enough memorable songs that has inspired kids to pick up guitar. That's the best way of saying that your ability means jack all if you can't write a great song. And Jeff Beck once personally chose the White Stripes as his backing band. That's accolade right there. 

Like the man or not, you gotta respect the man for being prolific. 

Also this:


----------



## Ancestor (Aug 25, 2011)

Ironbird said:


> Not a fan of him, but this write-up:
> 
> "... Don't pay attention to the notes;
> 
> This is terrible.



yeah, i'd say that's not a ringing endorsement for a musician to receive.


----------



## synrgy (Aug 25, 2011)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Also this:



I posted that on the first page, Guy.


----------



## LamaSabachthani (Aug 25, 2011)

elq said:


> QFT.
> 
> Though, oddly enough I got far more out of lessons with the jazz dude than I did the teacher who desperately wanted to be CC DeVille



What an appalling thing/person to aspire to!


----------



## CD1221 (Aug 25, 2011)

I like the guy. His playing and singing is sloppy as hell, but he plays with soul. And a lot of his songs are really cool - simple with great hooks. 



Genius is a big call. Peter Gabriel, Kate Bush maybe....jack white? nah.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Aug 25, 2011)

synrgy said:


> I posted that on the first page, Guy.


 
Just to reiterate of course. 



Spoiler



I haven't slept in days and my recent posts are slipping...


----------



## drgamble (Aug 26, 2011)

Hate to burst your bubble kiddies, but some of the most educated, talented players, play penatonic scales all night for a living and make a killing doing it (Yee-Haw). You can dispute it all day long. If you really think you're a musical genius you probably play jazz. You can cry metal all you want to, but a jazz band can get together for the very first time together and play a 4 hour set. You wanna talk odd times and polyrhythms, jazz has got that. 

Most metal players cannot approach the level of genius owned by jazz musicians. It isn't even close. Metal guys will play chromatic, off time stuff with no idea what they are doing, jazz guys do the same thing only they know exactly what they are doing.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2011)

drgamble said:


> Hate to burst your bubble kiddies, but some of the most educated, talented players, play penatonic scales all night for a living and make a killing doing it (Yee-Haw). You can dispute it all day long. If you really think you're a musical genius you probably play jazz. You can cry metal all you want to, but a jazz band can get together for the very first time together and play a 4 hour set. You wanna talk odd times and polyrhythms, jazz has got that.
> 
> Most metal players cannot approach the level of genius owned by jazz musicians. It isn't even close. Metal guys will play chromatic, off time stuff with no idea what they are doing, jazz guys do the same thing only they know exactly what they are doing.



I'm a jazz guy and I often play gigs with guys I have met 10 minutes beforehand. But, it doesn't take a genius to play it - All it takes is some theory and knowledge of the tunes.... but this has nothing to do with Jack White or the subject at hand.


----------



## in-pursuit (Aug 26, 2011)

.


----------



## drgamble (Aug 26, 2011)

Actually, I was referring to the fact that there are quite a few shredders that play country for a living, not blues.


----------



## in-pursuit (Aug 26, 2011)

.


----------



## drgamble (Aug 26, 2011)

The truth hurts sometimes.


----------



## chronocide (Aug 26, 2011)

in-pursuit said:


> everything except the first sentence in that post is 100% correct. any jazzist worth their fretboard are far beyond pentatonic my friend, which is not to say they don't "use" it. you're getting mixed up between blues and jazz, there is a HUGE difference.



The first sentence is the most accurate of the whole post.

The majority of guys making handsome money playing music, who are outrageously talented players, ARE out there playing pentatonics all night. They're playing in big money function bands, backing popstars and so on. Then there's your wealth of bluegrass players, who're oft amongst the very, very most talented...


----------



## in-pursuit (Aug 26, 2011)

.


----------



## chronocide (Aug 26, 2011)

in-pursuit said:


> yes yes we know they make money, but what are they doing innovatively speaking?



Nothing. I think you're answering a post that hasn't been made.

Here's the conversation:

drgamble: Hate to burst your bubble kiddies, but some of the most educated, talented players, play penatonic scales all night for a living and make a killing doing it

you: that's wrong.

me: no it isn't.

you: What are they doing that's innovative?


Who said they were doing anything innovative? The statement was that some of the most educated and talented players are doing it, not the most innovative.


----------



## USMarine75 (Aug 26, 2011)

in-pursuit said:


> pentatonic is shit either way, your argument is invalid.


 
??? 

Hendrix, Zakk Wylde, Slash, Gilmore, Page, Clapton, Les Paul, Buddy Guy, Albert King, Freddie King, BB King, SRV, etc... = shit? 



I'm a shredwanker that loves 4 straight minutes of sweeping as much as anyone on here... but Yngwie playing Voodoo Chile (G3) sucked ass. More notes (or faster) does not always equal better.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2011)

Just because a player is technically accomplished doesn't mean that he is a shredder. The term implies mindlessness and speed for the sake of the soloist, not the music. Country players, like Paisley and Gill, can all burn on their solos but they play to the tune. Jimmy Bruno or Pat Metheny will fly about the fingerboard while playing Giant Steps, but it is with a purpose. Shred for the sake of shred _(I'm looking at you Michael Angelo Batio)_ is more of a showcase for talent and not about song-craft. This is where the distinction between a musician and technician lies...


----------



## USMarine75 (Aug 26, 2011)

ArtDecade said:


> _I'm looking at you Michael Angelo Batio)[_/QUOTE]
> 
> And he's looking right back at you and saying that he can tastefully craft licks on 4 guitars at once...


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2011)

Nice pants, Batio. Nice f'n pants!


----------



## in-pursuit (Aug 26, 2011)

.


----------



## chronocide (Aug 26, 2011)

Commendation for being happy to hold you hands up in such a fashion.

I'd note I don't think Jack White is a genius, nor that your earnings or success are indicative of your worth as a player. It was just that what drgamble said in that sentence was accurate, whilst off the point of the thread.

I played music for a living for five years or thereabouts, got to play with some absurdly talented players at wedding and function gigs, none of whom are ever likely to be successful (or earn anything like as much) in their own right simply because of the degree to which the odds are stacked against you, so make a living doing that stuff. I imagine the majority of your musical "geniuses" are in that position, sadly.


----------



## tuneinrecords (Aug 26, 2011)

Whoa big surprise! A 7 string forum with a lot of metal heads that don't like Jack White. Get over it everyone. Different strokes for different folks. The Dead Weather are amazing to me but I'm not gonna argue about it until I'm blue in the face. You get it or you don't. Different qualities in music appeal to different people. Most people here like technique, prog metal, etc.. so I'm not surprised that they don't go for a lot of the music out there that doesn't fit it with that. I was more into metal in my youth and still enjoy it, but I expanded my musical horizons over the years, not by choice, but because it just happens when you grow and morph over the years. 

I know Neil Young doesn't get any praise on these forums either for his guitar prowess, but he'll go down in history as one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century. I think that the whole guitarist vs musician issue is a big part of the deal here. 

Was Van Gogh too sloppy with his paint?

Were Dali's images too strange?


----------



## Ancestor (Aug 26, 2011)

chronocide said:


> Commendation for being happy to hold you hands up in such a fashion.
> 
> I'd note I don't think Jack White is a genius, nor that your earnings or success are indicative of your worth as a player. It was just that what drgamble said in that sentence was accurate, whilst off the point of the thread.
> 
> I played music for a living for five years or thereabouts, got to play with some absurdly talented players at wedding and function gigs, none of whom are ever likely to be successful (or earn anything like as much) in their own right simply because of the degree to which the odds are stacked against you, so make a living doing that stuff. I imagine the majority of your musical "geniuses" are in that position, sadly.



i have a friend who's a musician and also a really successful business guy who always reminds me, "there's a big difference between art and commerce."


----------



## tuneinrecords (Aug 26, 2011)

in-pursuit said:


> pentatonic is shit either way, your argument is invalid.



Haha! Maybe because you don't know how to use them properly?

Pentatonics are very versatile and a wonderful to to use in many different ways. If you have a deeper understanding of theory you could use them very effectively with wonderful results in conjunction with other scales and tools. They can be utilized in a modal sense as well if you're big on modes. 

Saying pentatonics are shit is like telling a painter that 5 of his 7 colors are shit and should never be used together.


----------



## Ancestor (Aug 26, 2011)

tuneinrecords said:


> I know Neil Young doesn't get any praise on these forums either for his guitar prowess, but he'll go down in history as one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century. I think that the whole guitarist vs musician issue is a big part of the deal here.
> 
> Was Van Gogh too sloppy with his paint?
> 
> Were Dali's images too strange?



exactly! you're right. (although i actually do see a few pro-neils here. ha!)

i'm not debating whether he's made a lot of music that people purchased. 

i'm saying that i am not seeing that he's a guitar genius. 

and it wouldn't matter but sometimes it annoys me when the "news" media does that, because i feel like the real guys don't get the credit.


----------



## sol niger 333 (Aug 29, 2011)

Thrashmanzac said:


> your ignorence and attitude escape me



lol @ the eyerinny of yore ignorence.


----------



## sol niger 333 (Aug 29, 2011)

tuneinrecords said:


> Whoa big surprise! A 7 string forum with a lot of metal heads that don't like Jack White. Get over it everyone. Different strokes for different folks. The Dead Weather are amazing to me but I'm not gonna argue about it until I'm blue in the face. You get it or you don't. Different qualities in music appeal to different people. Most people here like technique, prog metal, etc.. so I'm not surprised that they don't go for a lot of the music out there that doesn't fit it with that. I was more into metal in my youth and still enjoy it, but I expanded my musical horizons over the years, not by choice, but because it just happens when you grow and morph over the years.
> 
> I know Neil Young doesn't get any praise on these forums either for his guitar prowess, but he'll go down in history as one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century. I think that the whole guitarist vs musician issue is a big part of the deal here.
> 
> ...



Speaking for myself I'm a fan of progressive ideas and dedication to an instrument, but the song and emotional conviction far outweigh those things for me. For my tastes and clearly the majority of people on this thread Jack White kinda fails at both. I think his success is a result of marketing and an easily influenced middle of the road group of radio listeners. His ideas are fairly mundane, definitely nothing new, and he's never moved me emotionally. I think he's an image thats been driven down peoples throats. I've seen white stripes performances so atrocious he barely deserves the title of musician. Awful awful stuff and so far from genius its not even funny


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 29, 2011)

sol niger 333 said:


> lol @ the eyerinny of yore ignorence.


----------



## Hollowway (Aug 29, 2011)

OK, but we CAN all agree that this Colbert interview with White is genius, no?


----------



## Thrashmanzac (Aug 29, 2011)

^yes we can !


----------



## Ancestor (Aug 29, 2011)

ok, see to me this is noteworthy guitar playing:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...nterject-some-spastic-ink-into-your-life.html

it's not necessarily fast or technically challenging (insofar as being physically difficult). but it's something most people would never be able to hear in their heads let alone play.


----------



## tuneinrecords (Aug 30, 2011)

sol niger 333 said:


> Speaking for myself I'm a fan of progressive ideas and dedication to an instrument, but the song and emotional conviction far outweigh those things for me. For my tastes and clearly the majority of people on this thread Jack White kinda fails at both. I think his success is a result of marketing and an easily influenced middle of the road group of radio listeners. His ideas are fairly mundane, definitely nothing new, and he's never moved me emotionally. I think he's an image thats been driven down peoples throats. I've seen white stripes performances so atrocious he barely deserves the title of musician. Awful awful stuff and so far from genius its not even funny



I don't watch TV or listen to the radio so I'm unfamiliar with the hype. I've never let the media influence me on wether or not I like something or not. I could care less if what I listen to is considered hyped or cool or uncool or last years fashion.. etc... that shit's high school. 

I'll have to disagree with you on the point of having great songs and emotional conviction. He's got a shit load of conviction and some sick ass songs to back it up. Have you listened to The Dead Weather? 

It's funny, my old guitar teacher when I was in high school was a jazz cat and still had love for Led Zep and classic rock, but he loathed Nirvana. He didn't get it and I'm guessing that it's kinda the same with how people view Jack White. I'm not a big White Stripes fan myself. I'm hooked into The Dead Weather and some of his other projects. 

I'm also all for dedication to your instrument, but I'm more a fan of that feeling I get when something really gets me - that perfect song at that perfect moment - when that hook totally has you.

I'm still broadening my horizons on the guitar, but songwriting has become my focus and I feel that when you're tuned into a song more than the guitar solo or technical side of things, you hear and experience the music differently. Jack White to me is a great songwriter and an amazing performer.


----------



## scottro202 (Aug 30, 2011)

Genius? Maybe not. A good musician who does what he does, and does it well? Yes.

Now, with that being said, here's what I've seen a lot of people in here say:

"Jack White's not a genius, *insert prog metal band here* are REAL geniuses!!!"


----------



## pink freud (Aug 31, 2011)

Tranquilliser said:


> Jack White a genius? Not really.
> I can see how people can like him, but I think it's a bit much to call him a genius.
> 
> If you want to see (or more accurately, hear) musical genius, you *cannot* go past Devin Townsend.
> ...



Devin Townsend is great, I'll be the first to claim it. But even he hasn't approached the immenseness of Brian Eno. Talk about an impressive portfolio: Brian Eno discography - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## liamh (Aug 31, 2011)

USMarine75 said:


> ArtDecade said:
> 
> 
> > And he's looking right back at you and saying that he can tastefully craft licks on 4 guitars at once...
> ...


----------



## USMarine75 (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm all about musical diversity... OK so... My name is Mark and I used to *secretly* work out to Britney Spear's "In the Zone" album (And we're talking powerlifting at a USMC gym)... ahem... so.... far be it from me to hate on someone else's musical "faux pas"... but Jack White "is what he is" (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/169166-quotes-you-f-king-hate-2.html)... he's an entertainer. I don't think we'll be talking about him 10 years from now. He reminds me of a lot of these throwback Sabbath sounding bands with shitty sounding recordings I keep seeing on iTunes every week... if you like it then more power to you... but I think the term "genius" is for those that innovate or somehow take it to the next level. He does write catchy tunes and there's a place for that. So does Kelly Clarkson (Yes... I like her music too) but she's not doing anything new or warranting the title of a music "genius".

e.g. I heard Ihsahn's "After" for the first time yesterday (no, I haven't heard this Devin Townsend guy yet either people) and the sax over the 8-string blew me away. I still watch the AAL CAFO video and want to punch Tosin in the face for being so damn good... 

IMO you need a "holy shit" moment to throw around "genius". I still watch Hendrix Live at Woodstock and get that feeling... and its 40+ years later! I don't expect to feel that way about the Target theme song... 

(Just my opinion)


----------



## K3V1N SHR3DZ (Aug 31, 2011)

I see it. Dude writes a good pop song with a bluesy/ratty feel.
I don't listen to it on purpose, but I can appreciate it. 
Def not a guitar genius, tho. Sorry.


----------



## NaYoN (Sep 1, 2011)

So, the ICP Mozart collab cover is indeed "genius".


----------



## Razzy (Sep 1, 2011)

I love his playing in this.


----------

