# tube or solid state?



## David (Dec 7, 2005)

I was just wondering what everyone on the forum uses. I use a solid state head (STILL awaiting that damn Flextone), and a Line 6 4x12 cab, along with the POD XT Live... yes... I'm all decked out in Line 6 gear. Give me a t-shirt and a line 6 hat, BAM, I'm like an advertisement. I dunno, I just love the tone of everything that they have, it rocks... I think I preach that a lot on this forum, haha... someone says effects I say POD XT LIVE, someone says amp I say LINE 6.


shit... I forgot the poll, haha.


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## eaeolian (Dec 7, 2005)

Tube. There is no substitute, although the modelers are getting better...


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## metalfiend666 (Dec 7, 2005)

I use solid state. Currently running a Digitech GNX4 into a Rocktron Velocity 120.


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## WayneCustom7 (Dec 7, 2005)

You know, I was one of those guys who loved modellers and solid state amps, and although I love my Tonelab SE, I believe there is no substitute for that original tube tone...there I said it!


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## Drew (Dec 7, 2005)

I flexed my modly powers for ya.  Let me know if you want the categories renamed. 

Myself, tubes. They're pretty.


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## YYZ2112 (Dec 7, 2005)

Tubes all the way for me, and as Drew states, they're pretty.


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## Jason (Dec 7, 2005)

For good rock or metal tones i would have to say tubes clean you can get away with ss or if your good at tweaking you can also get away with ss.


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## Chris (Dec 7, 2005)

SS


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## Christopher (Dec 7, 2005)

Cork sniffing tube snob over here!


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## Metal Ken (Dec 7, 2005)

SS.


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## Shannon (Dec 7, 2005)

Although both tube & SS have certain advantages over each other, I'm still primarily an SS guy.

Amp modeling with a SS poweramp = tasty.


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## Vince (Dec 7, 2005)

Tube or solid state?


Yes.


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## 7slinger (Dec 7, 2005)

eaeolian said:


> Tube. There is no substitute, although the modelers are getting better...




+1


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## LordOVchaoS (Dec 7, 2005)

How about a "both" option? PODxt>>>Tube power amp sounds freakin killer!


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## Nick1 (Dec 7, 2005)

Tube for me. But I have to ask the SS guys. What amps do you use?


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## LordOVchaoS (Dec 7, 2005)

Ampeg VH-140C's are AWESOME sounding solid state amps. Sansamp makes some good stuff too.


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## Shannon (Dec 7, 2005)

Nick1 said:


> Tube for me. But I have to ask the SS guys. What amps do you use?



Line6 PODxt Live > BBE 482i > Tubeworks Mosvalve 500 (500w).


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## theunforgiven246 (Dec 7, 2005)

5150 MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA


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## Scott (Dec 7, 2005)

Tube.


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## David (Dec 7, 2005)

LordOVchaoS said:


> How about a "both" option? PODxt>>>Tube power amp sounds freakin killer!



that's the reason why I play solid state! The Line 6 tube emulation sounds kick ass the way it is, and I can model the amp all I want, or which tube head to emulate. When I tried that on my MTS head... you can't emulate tubes over tubes... it's not supposed to happen, haha.


I kind of went the opposite of most people. Started out only tube, all tube, loves tube, to solid state and emulate tubes.


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## Nick1 (Dec 7, 2005)

Shannon said:


> Line6 PODxt Live > BBE 482i > Tubeworks Mosvalve 500 (500w).




Got any clips of that rig? Id love to hear what that sounds like!


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## Leon (Dec 7, 2005)

guitar center salesman: hey, what can i do for ya?
me: got any tube amps?
guitar center salesman: uh, lemme go look in the back....


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## Shannon (Dec 7, 2005)

Nick1 said:


> Got any clips of that rig? Id love to hear what that sounds like!



Not at the moment. However, if you go to www.endtheory.net & check out the rough mixes of my upcoming CD, the tone is nearly identical to what I have now. At the time of the recording, I was using a Rocktron Chameleon / BBE 482i combination with a Rocktron Velocity 300 & a Mesa 295 poweramp. I upgraded my rack about 4 months ago.


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## Nick1 (Dec 7, 2005)

you like the line6 better than the Rocktron?


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## Shannon (Dec 7, 2005)

Nick1 said:


> you like the line6 better than the Rocktron?



I don't really prefer one over the another. Both are fantastic units. they are just different, but equally amazing. The reason for the switch was it was just time to upgrade. My rocktron was getting pretty old & it had been repaired a few times. It's still my backup preamp though. I bought the Line6 for reliability purposes. Overall, I was able to duplicate my rocktron tone with the Line6 with minimal effort. Both units are easy to operate & as long as you match up the Line6 or the Rocktron with a BBE, you're gonna get a CRUSHING tone. But then again, I NEVER leave home without my BBE. it just makes everything better.


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## Doctor J (Dec 7, 2005)

LordOVchaoS said:


> Ampeg VH-140C's are AWESOME sounding solid state amps.



+1

Plus, you know it'll sound the same _every_ time you switch it on


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## 7 Dying Trees (Dec 7, 2005)

Tube. there is no substitute. And it makes great cheese on toast.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Dec 8, 2005)

Im glad im not the only solid state guy around here. Its amazing I get cussed out when I say I prefer SS at guitar center its like blasphemy or something! Then I bring my warhead down and they scratch their heads trying to think of bad things to say about it lol. My warhead owns


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## Nick1 (Dec 8, 2005)

guitarjitsumaster said:


> Im glad im not the only solid state guy around here. Its amazing I get cussed out when I say I prefer SS at guitar center its like blasphemy or something! Then I bring my warhead down and they scratch their heads trying to think of bad things to say about it lol. My warhead owns



Got any clips of it?


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## eaeolian (Dec 8, 2005)

Shannon said:


> Tubeworks Mosvalve 500 (500w).



I had the original version (160W) of this amp for years. The best SS power amp for guitar in existence. If I had to go non-tube, this is what I'd use (again.)


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## eaeolian (Dec 8, 2005)

Leon said:


> guitar center salesman: hey, what can i do for ya?
> me: got any tube amps?
> guitar center salesman: uh, lemme go look in the back....



I gotta give my local GC credit for that one - the Mesas are the second thing you see after you walk in, right beside the "island" of el cheapo guitars.

Of course, if one more Mesa "expert" there walks over and messes with settings while i'm trying out a guitar, they may get some tuning pegs upside the head. Man, their salesmen are idiots...


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## jim777 (Dec 8, 2005)

I use tube amps for solid body guitars, and Solid state for hollows and semi-hollows. I also use solid state for everything non-guitar. I use a 1980 Acoustic G100-112 amp (basically a Mesa Mark II clone) with an EVM-12L and a Carvin X100-b half stack for the solids, and a Peavey Stereo Chorus 212 for the 175 and whatever else.


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## Mind Riot (Dec 8, 2005)

I'm a modeler man myself, but more out of necessity than choice. I couldn't afford a decent tube amp unless I saved for a LONG time. That being said, I'm very happy with modelers, and aside from sounding great they're a lot less finicky and expensive than tube amps. If money was no object, maybe I'd go tube, after all tube amps are the standard in sound for a reason. But in the real world, I'm just glad that a po' boy like me can get a modeler that sounds as good as it does, plus I can record a cranked sound direct. So no complaints here.


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 8, 2005)

I play through a solid-state Crate amp for pretty much everything, just because I've had it for years now, and I've never had any problems in terms of sound or reliability, so there's no real reason to replace it, although I did seriously look at getting a POD to use as a pre-amp a few years back. If I upgrade to a more powerful setup I'd probably go for a Line 6 rig just for the sake of versatility, although I agree they haven't completely nailed the mythical tube tone yet.
Anyway, Mike Stern, BB King and Ty Tabor have all wrung great tones out of SS gear...


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## David (Dec 8, 2005)

god I hate guitar centers. When I went in to buy the Line 6 cab from them, they directed me towards a Marshall cab (which I agree fucking rock), and the dude wouldn't let me just buy the fuckin Line 6 cab. He told me ANGUS YOUNG! used these, JIMMY PAGE! so you don't want to go against the greats... for 1, they both sucked (although jimmy was good for his time)... 2... I wanted the line 6 one, because that's the tone I want... so I left and got it for $1000 cheaper from a local guitar shop.

The Hughes and Kettner amps were brought up in another thread, and I ahve to say, those are the only tube amps I truly love. I would play one for all my stuff, except they are a little too pricy. Their cheap-o matrix 100 head for like $500, and cab, totally kick ass. If there wasn't the flextone head, I would definately get the Matrix. It's pretty much the same thing, just without the easy access outputs.


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## thepunisher (Dec 8, 2005)

personally i wish ss would stop trying to emmulate tubes. they could sound so much better if they would stop.

when i play with my band, i borrow a dual rectifer.(bass player owns one)
other wise its carvin sx300 or gnx4 through a pa cause im poor.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Dec 9, 2005)

thepunisher said:


> personally i wish ss would stop trying to emmulate tubes. they could sound so much better if they would stop.



+1  

Randall had a breakthrough in that area with their line of solid states. Unfortunately most other brands are trying to stay in their financial comfort zones. When you try to innovate with solid state your going out on a limb because a lot of people have been brainwashed by the tube nazis and dont realize that solid state can stand on its own merits. I think randall's line of solid states is just a small glimpse of what SS can do.


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## thepunisher (Dec 12, 2005)

are these the g series you speak of jitsu?


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## guitarjitsumaster (Dec 12, 2005)

I was thinking of the Titan, Cyclone, warhead and so, on.


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## thepunisher (Dec 12, 2005)

i was just curious, ive never played a randall.

none around to test out in my area.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Dec 12, 2005)

As soon as I get some decent mikes "income tax time  ". Ill make some clips.


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## Firebeard (Dec 13, 2005)

eaeolian said:


> Man, their salesmen are idiots...



I can't say enough about how stupid GC is. With my Charvel model 2/3a problem. The dude looked like Billy West, bug eyes and all! I was looking into the Line 6 Spider II HD75 because I currently have a Crate G600xl with as much tone as my dog's farts. And they told me they sell alot of those so theres a huge new shipment coming in...of 2! Since I'll never gig I just want a small cheap amp that sounds better than my Crate and for $250 the Spider II HD75 seems to fit right in between bills. As far as tube/solid go, personal opinion always beats other's! Play by ear drag two heads side by side and check them out. Just don't do it at GC because we've all figured out they're idiots.


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## tongueofcolicab (Dec 13, 2005)

while guitar center has a bigger variety of instruments, i think my local samash has the best customer support/best working guys there. recently i've been going more and more there just to chill around and try new equipment and they've been nothing but cool about it. they practically know me by now there.

i can never forget the asshole at GC who refused to let me try out shit at the store with my seven string. urgh


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## thepunisher (Dec 15, 2005)

wouldnt let ya try out because of seven string?

thats fucking stupid


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## tongueofcolicab (Dec 16, 2005)

thepunisher said:


> wouldnt let ya try out because of seven string?
> 
> thats fucking stupid



nah just bringing any of my equipment to try out new stuff at the store. they wanted me to use the shit there. less paperwork? assholes.


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## Chunkosaurus (Dec 17, 2005)

Johnson Millennium 250 Head by digitech
http://johnson-amp.com/jm250.htm


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## zimbloth (Jan 31, 2006)

Im shocked so many people on here prefer SS over tubes, especially those with otherwise high-end gear. I've never run into a person who actually PREFERRED the sound of a solid state amp over a good tube amp. I guess you learn something new everyday. I can't think of any established bands who don't record/tour with tube amps, other than Pantera back in the day but even that was debatable. The only one I can think of was Meshuggah back in the day, but compare their tone on Chaosphere (Mesa tube amps) with their old stuff...eeek!

I guess if you just want to play at bedroom levels and/or don't have a lot of money, then I understand. Or if you just haven't been exposed to a good tube amp before (IMO a lot of newer Marshalls/Mesas you find at retail stores are junk). The problem with trying them out at places like GC is you cant even play them loud enough to hear how they really sound. Not to mention they usually are setup bad with crappy tubes, horrific speaker cables, crappy guitars with dually bad instrument cables, etc.

To each their own!  I respect if people dig SS, sound is subjective I suppose.


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## Donnie (Jan 31, 2006)

Well, I've had tube amps from Soldano, Marshall, Peavey, Mesa, Rocktron and I just prefer my current setup of either a Line 6 Vetta 2x12 combo with the matching ext. cab or my PodXT Live>Carvin DCM600>Line 6 4x12. And it's not because it's cheaper for me. A Vetta isn't the cheapest amp in the world. Also, I like to tweak tones and with this stuff, I can mess around with different sounds for a lifetime. On the other end of the spectrum, I'd love to have my Soldano Hotrod 50XL + Soldano 4x12 cab back. 1 Channel. Just plug and play.
Also I'll add that I'm gigging fairly regularly now and the sound of my Vetta usually brings in compliments on my tone. Mostly from tube players that have never heard one before.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Jan 31, 2006)

I like tubes also so dont get me wrong but my SS warhead has a lower register precision, agressiveness and clarity that just cant be found in a tube amp. When I hit that low B its tighter than a bad pair of 80's spandex. Its just something that can not be had from a tube amp. Most people have just not heard a proper SS amp. Most SS manufacturers are just trying to emulate tube and never realise the true sonic potential of an unashamed SS amp. So most of the tube nazis have never heard a real SS. 

I do prefer tubes when im in more of a prog mood but if Im playing metal nothing can take the place of my warhead. There are some tube amps I could live with like the uberschall or some of the "heavily" modified marshalls ive heard.


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## zimbloth (Jan 31, 2006)

Well yea SS are a little tighter, but you can still get a crazy tight sound from the right tube amp - for metal. I mean I guarantee if you name some of your favorite bands and their tones, more than likely theyre getting those sounds from a tube amp.

Some tube amps granted have sloppy low ends, but often that can be corrected by using different pre-amp tubes which are tighter, or adjusting the amp a certain way. For example, one tube amp I have is a Peavey and it has a 3 way switch on it that lets you choose from "loose, mid and tight", on tight its extremely articulate and tight, like a solid state but you still get that organic 3-dimensional sound you can only get from tubes.

Although, I will concede that for extreme versatility, some of those modeling amps can't be beat, personally I just look for one perfect tone and just use that 95% of the time.


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## telecaster90 (Jan 31, 2006)

I have a Line6 Modeling amp, so SS for me. But I love the tone from my dad's Carvin MTS.


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## Donnie (Jan 31, 2006)

As much as I love solid state, I will probably end up with one of those new Hughes & Kettner Switchblades this year.


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## Gurj (Jan 31, 2006)

I like both. I love the tone from my Peavey XXX, but when I want to go heavier, I have an evil setting on my GNX2 or get out the Randall Cyclone head


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## zimbloth (Jan 31, 2006)

I can't imagine going heavier than the Triple XXX assuming it has good tubes in it and uses the 'tight' setting. That's one of my favorite amps. Plus it sounds cool on the new Nevermore album.


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## Gurj (Jan 31, 2006)

The XXX is my favourite amp, but I can't get a Dimebag type tone out of it. That's when the GNX2 or the Randall Cyclone come in handy


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## guitarjitsumaster (Jan 31, 2006)

Gurj said:


> The XXX is my favourite amp, but I can't get a Dimebag type tone out of it. That's when the GNX2 or the Randall Cyclone come in handy




Exactly  

I love the triple XXX. It is pretty tight but the agressiveness of its distortion cant quite measure up to the Warhead. That and it doesnt have the cabs with 2x15 with crossover. Probably my dream tone would be both of them together but since I had to choose. It was the warhead all the way. Goind SS also has the benefit of being more reliable. Cuz it really sucks when your at an ouside show and a drop of rain hits a hot tube and cracks it Or your dumb roadie moves the amp while its hot and cracks a tube


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## zimbloth (Feb 1, 2006)

Eh. I hate solid states. It's debatable Dimebag even used solid state amps to record. It sounds like he did for a while, but if you compare the tone on Reinventing the Steel or The Great Southern Trendkill to their older work, they sound like tube amps. I think his tone when he used those SS amps was highly overrated. His superb technique is what made it sound good IMO.

If you want your Triple XXX to sound exponentially better, try putting some JJ tubes in there. Most tubes made these days aren't very good, JJ's are one of the few exceptions. Also use it with a good cab made of birch like a Mesa Recto 4x12 or a Carvin Legacy 4x12. I don't like the Sheffield speakers in the Peavey cabs.

As for reliability, I can't argue there, that's definitely an advantage of SS. I guess high maitenance and occasional headaches is the price you pay for great tube tone


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## Gurj (Feb 1, 2006)

I've got my amp set to the "tight" setting and tubes are stock. But i've never been able to get a Dimebag growl out of it. 
But will try some JJ's down the road and have been thinking about trying the head with different cabs.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Feb 1, 2006)

When I was using the triple it had GT's. So I think it was good to go. I like SS and tube. Its just that tube just wont get the clarity I need with fast precise rythems in the lower register. I know you can get close with a tube amp but you usually have to mod them and use outboard gear to get the same tightness and turn them up to ear bleed level to get the sweet spot. I would rather have a simpler rig. Bass players have known for a long time that your just not going to get the tightest and most accurate bass punch and response with tubes. Its not until recently that guitar players have been dipping down into their range and noticing the pronounced difference that bass players have been knowing about for a long time now. . I know ill never convince the tube nazis but I know ive convinced every open mind whose into metal with my warhead.

I will admit that Randall is the only company that makes SS's that are worth anything. A good sounding SS is a very young invention and still rare. Most ss amps in the beginning and still today are built to either be cheapies for the kid guitarists or tube emulators. So of course this equates to alot of bad SS amps being made out there. One day because of the experimentation with hybrids this will change I believe.

Honestly I think the future of amps are in hybrid's with SS and tube pre's. I know a lot of famous guys who were doing SS like anthrax and disturbed are going that way.


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## 7stringninja (Feb 1, 2006)

So far.....I prefer tube, but I think there is a BIG reason that alot of people overlook.


For years, tube amps have been standard (with a few exceptions - Dimebag Darrell). Because of this, amplifier developers spend most of their time and money, developing tube amps. With very little time or effort dedicated to solid-state development.

If Mesa Boogie spent the next year working on a top-notch solid state amp, I can almost gaurantee it would be NICE!!! Just my $.02


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## Elysian (Feb 1, 2006)

solid state, i have yet to hear a tube amp that doesn't woof when you palm mute, whereas my vamp pro setup is super crunchy with no woofing.


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## ephrion (Feb 1, 2006)

Solid State/Digital. My Line 6 HD147 sounds great, just as good if not better than a lot of tube amps.


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## gojira (Feb 1, 2006)

alot of people here seem confused about the difference between solid state and digital - they are very different.

I'm an SS guy - i recently switched over to a psa1 setup with a parametric eq and compressor in the loop - i can go from holdsworth to nasum with this setup - not that i can play holdsworth.....

But I to have also found the tightest most precise distortion is SS - i used to own a warhead x2 - it died on me unfortunately - and then they stopped making them, so i couldn't get a replacement - but that amp was like a giant razor - killer metal tone.


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## Elysian (Feb 2, 2006)

gojira said:


> alot of people here seem confused about the difference between solid state and digital - they are very different.
> 
> I'm an SS guy - i recently switched over to a psa1 setup with a parametric eq and compressor in the loop - i can go from holdsworth to nasum with this setup - not that i can play holdsworth.....
> 
> But I to have also found the tightest most precise distortion is SS - i used to own a warhead x2 - it died on me unfortunately - and then they stopped making them, so i couldn't get a replacement - but that amp was like a giant razor - killer metal tone.


my vamp pro setup is still solid state, the preamp may be digital, but the power amp is solid state.


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## zimbloth (Feb 2, 2006)

Elysian said:


> solid state, i have yet to hear a tube amp that doesn't woof when you palm mute, whereas my vamp pro setup is super crunchy with no woofing.



You havent been checking out the right tube amps then.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Feb 2, 2006)

Nah, I think its more of the fact that with the same speakers with the same bass level will woof more with tubes due to the fact of the way tubes release energy to the speakers. When a tube amp sends the power out its more like the release of a dam of water. Which can make the speaker work more and possible woof out. While a SS at the same volume and bass level will not do that since the power to speaker response is more immediate and flat. Thats why I find SS to have the superior low frequency handeling. Generally you can get away with higher bass levels with SS amps without sounding muddy and still staying tight. However its usually more then a lot guitarist use anyhow.


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## Elysian (Feb 2, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> You havent been checking out the right tube amps then.


if you played through my rig you'd understand


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## zimbloth (Feb 2, 2006)

I've played through plenty of the good solid-states. The tone is definitely tight and can sound good... the tone just sounds 2d compared to tube amps. I can't handle digital or ss.


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## David (Feb 3, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> I've played through plenty of the good solid-states. The tone is definitely tight and can sound good... the tone just sounds 2d compared to tube amps. I can't handle digital or ss.



[rag on you for being a dumb ass]
you obviously haven't played through the right solid state heads...
[/rag on you for being a dumb ass]



haha, I'm just messin with you... but you have to know how to control your sound. If you don't know what your sound is, then digital and ss isn't for you... And just as elysian said, if you played through his rig, you'd know why. My rig pwns the shit out of all $2000 half stacks... I run the POD Xt Live through a poweramp, and into a Line 6 4x12 cab (sometimes mic'd, sometimes just striaght to PA system, skip the cab if I need more power, but that's all you need for a small gig). Thank you shannon.


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## zimbloth (Feb 4, 2006)

Whatever works for you is great. If you like the sound those amps provide, then who am I to try to stop you? All I can say is, there's got to be a reason why basically all (99%) "established" bands record/tour with tube amps and not solid-state. I really would love to hear about all the guitarists with great tone out there using Crates or Pods on their records or out on tour. I can name a million awesome metal/hard rock bands who use Peavey 5150s ALONE, nevertheless Mesas, Marshalls, VHTs, Bogners, Orange, Laney, Fender, Krank, Rivera, H&K, etc. I'm not saying they don't exist, I just never hear about it. The ones I do know about use something like a Pod pre-amp but then use tube poweramps which heavily colors the tone so it's not a pure solid-state sound (Fear Factory comes to mind).

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying popularity alone somehow makes it superior, sound is subjective, but clearly there's a reason why 99% of these people opt to use tube amps. I've played just about every amp out there, I've owned a Pod XT and Pod Pro, and I thought it was a cool toy but even when hooked up through a great poweramp or direct it sounded artificial and silly compared to great tube heads, and seriously lacked in dynamics.

*Whatever works for you*, but I can't be convinced it's because 'i havent tried the right ss amp'. No ss/digital amp can sound like a tube amp sounds, some can sound good I'm sure for some peoples tastes, but it will still be a ss sound, which to my ears is just doesn't cut it.

That being said, if I could ever find a solid-state head which I loved, I'd be so happy. Tube amps are very annoying to maintain and not as reliable. That's why I will continue to keep trying out new ones that I see and hope to strike gold 

PS: Just stating my opinion, not trying to disrespect anyone who loves SS amps, just bring up some points relating to how I feel.


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## Jeff (Feb 4, 2006)

Shannon said:


> Line6 PODxt Live > BBE 482i > Tubeworks Mosvalve 500 (500w).



That's almost exactly what I'll be getting, except I'll have a Tech 21 Power Engine 300watt.


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## ephrion (Feb 4, 2006)

Mr Zimbloth-
" I've owned a Pod XT and Pod Pro... it sounded artificial and silly compared to great tube heads,"

Comparing a $300 product with a $2K+ one(s) sounds pretty silly to me 

The reason why most bands record/tour with tube and not solid state is probably due to cost. While I do love my HD147 ( its excellent ), I would definitely trade it if I could get a JC-120 for cleans, a Bogner Uberschall, VHT CLX, and Mesa Mark IIC+. However, one option cost me $700 used, the other would cost me well over $6,000 ( used at that ). Thats not even counting the nightmare of cabling all that together, hauling it around, etc.

However if cost isn't much of an issue and you have people on staff who are trained to get haul it around/wire it up... well, you see what the issue is.

I would love to try out one of the amps above and AB it with a Vetta II.


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## David (Feb 4, 2006)

ephrion said:


> I would love to try out one of the amps above and AB it with a Vetta II.



I honestly can say that I do prefer the Vetta's to some of the better amps. A lot of the "better" amps, aren't consistent, and aren't very versatile. Considering that I play a lot of everything... there is no amp that can offer that other than my POD and a power amp, haha.


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## Elysian (Feb 4, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Whatever works for you is great. If you like the sound those amps provide, then who am I to try to stop you? All I can say is, there's got to be a reason why basically all (99%) "established" bands record/tour with tube amps and not solid-state.


i think the biggest reason most people use tube amps is simple. tradition. people say they like the "warmth", i've heard some incredibly cold sounding tube amps, as well as some incredibly warm sounding solid state amps. i personally think the difference between tube and solid state is not vast.



zimbloth said:


> *Whatever works for you*, but I can't be convinced it's because 'i havent tried the right ss amp'. No ss/digital amp can sound like a tube amp sounds, some can sound good I'm sure for some peoples tastes, but it will still be a ss sound, which to my ears is just doesn't cut it.


should hear some of the patches i have programmed on my vamp, quite the organic tone when combined with my Rhoads V, its all in how you program it imo.

wonder how many people live in texas, i haven't seen any yet on here, maybe i just haven't looked enough lol... i'd love to a/b my rig against someone on here's tube rig...


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## Elysian (Feb 4, 2006)

Jeff said:


> That's almost exactly what I'll be getting, except I'll have a Tech 21 Power Engine 300watt.


my rig is Rocktron Hush IIXC > Vamp Pro > BBE > Fender M-300 monitoring PA([email protected]) > Peavey 412MS slant cab, wouldn't trade it for the world. although when the next generation vamp comes out you can guarantee i'll buy it(if it has delayless amp sim switching, or at least patch spill over...)


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## David (Feb 5, 2006)

Elysian said:



> i think the biggest reason most people use tube amps is simple. tradition. people say they like the "warmth", i've heard some incredibly cold sounding tube amps, as well as some incredibly warm sounding solid state amps. i personally think the difference between tube and solid state is not vast.
> 
> 
> should hear some of the patches i have programmed on my vamp, quite the organic tone when combined with my Rhoads V, its all in how you program it imo.
> ...



Thank you. Simply, thank you.


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## zimbloth (Feb 5, 2006)

ephrion said:


> Mr Zimbloth-
> Comparing a $300 product with a $2K+ one(s) sounds pretty silly to me
> 
> The reason why most bands record/tour with tube and not solid state is probably due to cost. While I do love my HD147 ( its excellent ), I would definitely trade it if I could get a JC-120 for cleans, a Bogner Uberschall, VHT CLX, and Mesa Mark IIC+. However, one option cost me $700 used, the other would cost me well over $6,000 ( used at that ). Thats not even counting the nightmare of cabling all that together, hauling it around, etc.
> ...



1) The Pod Pro I had cost $600, more than I paid for my Peavey Ultra Plus and Laney GH50, both which are two of the finest tube amps I've ever heard (live or in the studio).

2) I'll have to respectfully disagree. Most bands have "a sound", usually they have a distortion sound and a clean sound, and they don't need a million different amps. Tube amps can be had for cheap if you know where to look. If you're looking for extreme versatility then of course you'll always be better off with digital or ss, I just usually prefer to dial in one great sound and run with it. 

3) As for the guy who said hes heard some cold sound tube amps and warm sounding ss... of course, not all tube amps are good, most in fact are bad. I'm only talking about the good ones. In fact, most tube amps stock aren't always great sounding, you often have to mod it a bit with different tubes or changing the bias, etc. I've never heard a Mesa Rectifier that sounded good in Guitar Center for example. Plus, GC uses shitty speaker and instrument cables that make it sound even worse.

4) To Elysian, I'd love to hear your rig sometime. It would be fun to compare it to one of my tube heads through my Mesa 4x12 and see what happens. Unfortunately I'm in Boston at the moment. I can't help but be a little skeptical seeing as I've yet to hear a SS amp either on record, live or in my personal playing experiences that sounded decent to -my ears-. I will admit to never hearing a V-Amp Pro cranked up. I've played their combo amps and thought it sounded really good for digital, considered it for a practice amp, ended up buying a 22watt Mesa tube combo instead.

5) Elysian, the difference between SS and Tube -is- vast. That's proven not even an opinion. They are completely different sounds with very few similarities in chracteristics. Most pros use tube amps not because of tradition, but because they believe it sounds better. Sure some people may buy a Marshall tube amp because Hendrix used one, but 99% of pros opt for tube amps because they sound better man, not because of tradition but because they tried a plethora of amps and liked the tube amps better.


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## Elysian (Feb 5, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> 1) The Pod Pro I had cost $600, more than I paid for my Peavey Ultra Plus and Laney GH50, both which are two of the finest tube amps I've ever heard (live or in the studio).
> 
> 2) I'll have to respectfully disagree. Most bands have "a sound", usually they have a distortion sound and a clean sound, and they don't need a million different amps. Tube amps can be had for cheap if you know where to look. If you're looking for extreme versatility then of course you'll always be better off with digital or ss, I just usually prefer to dial in one great sound and run with it.
> 
> ...


most people won't even give solid state a try to find out, especially pro's. people are far too locked in on the belief that tube is so great... i've been a tube guy before... it used to be the only kind of amp i owned, but the versatility was lacking... i may only use 3 tones during any show, but i know that if in the future i wanted to completely change my tone, i have that option without buying a new amp. and retubing gets expensive! i did my blue voodoo up with jj/tesla's all around, rebiased it myself, did all the work myself, but if i had a shop do it, i would have been spending big bucks. granted the jj/tesla's made that blue voodoo sound like a million bucks, it was still a pain. and to be honest, i wouldn't mind having a tube head in my arsenal, my favorite right now being the JCM2000 DSL100, its a great sounding head to me, but i probably would never use it live, itd be the kind of thing i only recorded with... and listen to Symphony X sometime, i don't personally like that band much anymore, but Romeo has really good tone on it, and he uses line 6...


and on the opposite side of the table, like you said most tube amps sound bad, most solid state/digital sounds bad too, but there are good amps in the solid state/digital world, especially when looking at PA gear, thats why i bought my monitoring power amp, i wanted perfect reproduction of my tone, and i got it, the only thing that colors it is the things that i want to color it, the bbe, and the peavey slant cab... imo hook a good power amp up to a pod pro or vamp pro, and you're set


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## Elysian (Feb 5, 2006)

this is one of the tones i was talking about earlier, that feels really tubey to me, its got this great organic tone, yet really bright and alive... 

http://premium1.uploadit.org/Elysian893/Shortie.mp3

thats straight from the digital out on the vamp, no post processing, no bbe or anything... the funniest part is the patch is based off the soldano slo100 amp sim... please excuse the lame riff  thats on my Rhoads V with dimarzio x2n in the bridge spot

in my very humble opinion, more of the tone comes from the cab you use than the tubes you use...


and i just looked up what speaker sim it was i used on that recording, and its a 1x8 vintage tweed


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## Elysian (Feb 5, 2006)

you also can't forget that all the tube amps you hear on albums, have been processed by many millions of dollars worth of equipment, and live is usually the same story, they might as well have brought the studio with them... oh another one with good tone(imo at least) from solid state was chuck schuldiner of Death/Control Denied, he used a valvestate head... i guess you could argue it was sort of tube though... hybrid anyways...


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## Elysian (Feb 5, 2006)

shoot heres another mp3 haha... same cab sim, but different amp sim, "brit hi gain" here

http://premium1.uploadit.org/Elysian893/Shortie2.mp3


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## Toshiro (Feb 5, 2006)

Another SS tone that owns: Disincarnate. TS9+Valvestate+JCM cab.

Sonata Arctica was all Line 6 for a long time, IIRC. So has Jeff Loomis of Nevermore on tour for a long time.

You know, I hate thinking about "who uses what". I'm not them. You're not them. Their opinion is null, because they're not here. 

Most of the tube snob "gurus" think that preamp tube distortion is pathetic and not much better than SS distortion. So to them most high-gain amps are shit, tube or SS, I guess. lol Seems a bit silly, right?

The old complaint about SS was that it sounded like shit up loud. Mostly because the power section started to clip and that's not a positive in SS amplification. Tubes get loud into clipping and it gets all squishy and still sounds good. Now that amp companies are making 300+ watt SS power amps, that doesn't hold water anymore.

Play what you want. I like some tubes amps, but most of them require volumes that would get me evicted if I wanted to play, more often than not.


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## Elysian (Feb 5, 2006)

amen to that, i once did a recording of my rig through my 412ms at the lowest volume possible, using a sm57... i wish i still had it, cause it sounded damn good, real punchy, and perfect reproduction of my tone at high volume as well


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## zimbloth (Feb 5, 2006)

Elysian said:


> you also can't forget that all the tube amps you hear on albums, have been processed by many millions of dollars worth of equipment, and live is usually the same story, they might as well have brought the studio with them... oh another one with good tone(imo at least) from solid state was chuck schuldiner of Death/Control Denied, he used a valvestate head... i guess you could argue it was sort of tube though... hybrid anyways...



You're really grasping for straws now man. The way tube amps sound on records and in person is nearly the same. When I hear a band such as Arch Enemy, In Flames, Cannibal Corpse, Machine Head, Nevermore or whoever using a Peavey on their record, their tone sounds more or less the same that I hear when I use it - the main differences being in pick technique, guitars, style and tuning. The only thing that expensive in the studio is the mic pre-amps people sometime use, such as an Avalon 737 which is fairly commonly used, beyond that it's not processed much at all. Many engineers simply mike up a nice 4x12 with a SM57 or 57 Beta run it through the mixing board and thats it. In fact, many of the tubes amps I love sound better live than they do on some of my favorite records, which would indicate they just sound that damn good period - with or without processing.

In response to your other post, like I said many times before, I agree that if you're looking for reliability and versatility, then SS/Digital makes a lot of sense, no one's arguing that. The bottom line is, everyone has their own sound they prefer, all I'm saying is I think (good) tube amps are in a whole other league and it has nothing to do with reputation or tradition, and even if it did, there's a reason why that reputation and tradition was established.

Use what makes you happy, just don't oversimplify things and make like there's no big difference between SS and tube amps. It is night and day.


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## Elysian (Feb 5, 2006)

you haven't responded to the clips i posted...


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## guitarjitsumaster (Feb 5, 2006)

Elysian said:


> imo.
> 
> wonder how many people live in texas, i haven't seen any yet on here, maybe i just haven't looked enough lol... i'd love to a/b my rig against someone on here's tube rig...



Hey I live in Texas dude. And Im an SS man all the way bro


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## Elysian (Feb 5, 2006)

guitarjitsumaster said:


> Hey I live in Texas dude. And Im an SS man all the way bro


where at?


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## SevenatoR (Feb 5, 2006)

I own a modeling amp that I run through a tube power amp into a 4x12 cab live. Last Saturday night, in the second song of our set, it died....one of the guys in the crowd (a friend from another local band) says "hey, I've got my Bogner upstairs, you wanna use it?". 

Do I wanna use it? Heh...uhh...yeah....

So, he brings it down and sets it up for me. Had to cut out some cute effects stuff that I usually do and just run it dry, but all things considered, I was just happy to have an amp to get me through the show at this point.

Fire it up, and OH MY GOD. This was an Ecstasy 101B. Running it through my Mesa 412. I was absolutely dumbfounded at how fabulous this thing sounded. Even though it didn't have the preamp gain that I would like, It absolutely killed. I mean destroyed. Slaughtered. Laid to waste. Megatons of volume and tone that I can only describe as sounding like pure electricity. On top of that, it was dead quiet, without a noise gate. Ridiculous. 

I used to think that the "high end" or "boutique" amps were just an excuse for some guy who could hand wire an amp in his garage/shop to charge ridiculous amounts of money just because they were "hand wired" or whatever. Now kids, I'm a believer. And while I can't afford one at the moment, I'm saving my pennies. 

 Worship the toob!!!


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## guitarjitsumaster (Feb 6, 2006)

Elysian said:


> where at?


 Kinda far away, here in Texas City south of houston but in Texas everything is far away. I was in your neck of the woods just last night though picking up a car I bought.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Feb 6, 2006)

SevenatoR said:


> I own a modeling amp that I run through a tube power amp into a 4x12 cab live. Last Saturday night, in the second song of our set, it died....one of the guys in the crowd (a friend from another local band) says "hey, I've got my Bogner upstairs, you wanna use it?".
> 
> Do I wanna use it? Heh...uhh...yeah....
> 
> ...



Actually Bogner/uberschall was one of the tube amps I considered before getting my SS warhead. If it wasnt for the insane price I might have went with it. They were neck and neck with eachother for me. The distortion in the warhead was just a little bit more evil sounding. If I could find an uberschall that didnt cost my firstborn I would definately get it.


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## zimbloth (Feb 6, 2006)

Yes Bogners are great amps, although I feel your euphoric experience could be replicated with less expensive tube amps too as long as it was setup properly. 

Elysian, I haven't heard your clips yet, I will listen now...(listening)....ok I've listened, the tone isn't bad but TO MY EARS it just sounds very bland and 2dimensional, lacking organic 3 dimensional tube sound. It sounds clear and nice and everything, its just missing that 3rd dimensional to my ears.

This is just my opinion, I'll say again for the millionth time that whatever anyone wants to play is fine, it would just be nice if everyone could hear all the options in optimal conditions before making their choices, it would have saved me YEARS of trial and error.

Perhaps I'll post a little clip of my little tube mesa 22watt combo amp, it wont be loud (as everyone knows tube amps need to be cranked to hit their sweet spot), but it can still demonstrate how night and day tube and ss amps are in tonal character.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Feb 6, 2006)

AAAAAhhhhh come on you know you just like those tube amps because you think they look cool with those big shiney light bulbs and all the other tube heads will tell you how cool your tone is because you have those shiney light bulbs up in there    

j/j


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## zimbloth (Feb 6, 2006)

lol, yeah the cool lights dont hurt. in fact my Peavey head features a "Peavey" logo which lights up bright red, neon green or orange depending on what channel is selected, it lights up the whole room, looks cool


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## Elysian (Feb 6, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Yes Bogners are great amps, although I feel your euphoric experience could be replicated with less expensive tube amps too as long as it was setup properly.
> 
> Elysian, I haven't heard your clips yet, I will listen now...(listening)....ok I've listened, the tone isn't bad but TO MY EARS it just sounds very bland and 2dimensional, lacking organic 3 dimensional tube sound. It sounds clear and nice and everything, its just missing that 3rd dimensional to my ears.
> 
> ...


so what i gather from this post is, because you know its digital before you listened, it is obviously missing something. to use your own words, "you're really grasping for straws now"...


the first clip got posted on a few other forums(by a friend of mine, so i don't have the link handy), and besides many "this is good" comments, there were a few asking what the rig was, and guessing it was at least a tube preamp. it was kind of like a blind test.

also keep in mind both clips were done on my rhoads v, which sports a hot ass dimarzio x2n in the bridge spot...


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## zimbloth (Feb 6, 2006)

It's okay man, I just didn't like the sound very much. I understand it was direct and perhaps through a good poweramp and cab its probably a lot better, I was just going on what I could hear. 

I don't know what else to say man, you're a cool dude and I respect your opinions, but I just can't get into SS tone, tube amps just have characteristics that are very attractive to me that I can't live without. It's hard to explain, it would take forever so I'll spare everybody. I wish you were around so we could hear each others rigs but for now we'll just have to agree to disagree.

In other news, I saw that AMS and other online music retailers have started to sell this Randall 50watt tube head (RH50T) at an astonishing $475 pricetag. I've never heard of those models and I believe they are new, but that's the cheapest I've ever seen a genuine tube amp cost brand new. I ordered one just out of curiosity. If it turns out to be great, thats the best value ever. I'll post somewhere on that when it shows up hah.


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## Shannon (Feb 6, 2006)

^ I believe the new Peavey Valveking heads are gonna for $450-475 also.


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## Elysian (Feb 6, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> It's okay man, I just didn't like the sound very much. I understand it was direct and perhaps through a good poweramp and cab its probably a lot better, I was just going on what I could hear.
> 
> I don't know what else to say man, you're a cool dude and I respect your opinions, but I just can't get into SS tone, tube amps just have characteristics that are very attractive to me that I can't live without. It's hard to explain, it would take forever so I'll spare everybody. I wish you were around so we could hear each others rigs but for now we'll just have to agree to disagree.
> 
> In other news, I saw that AMS and other online music retailers have started to sell this Randall 50watt tube head (RH50T) at an astonishing $475 pricetag. I've never heard of those models and I believe they are new, but that's the cheapest I've ever seen a genuine tube amp cost brand new. I ordered one just out of curiosity. If it turns out to be great, thats the best value ever. I'll post somewhere on that when it shows up hah.


its ok, while i'm at roberto-venn i'm actually going to amp class to learn how to build tube amps


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## zimbloth (Feb 6, 2006)

I've never played those, that's cool though. I love Peavey tube heads. I'm really intrigued to hear the Randall tube head I mentioned, I've had GREAT experiences with 50watt tube heads even inexpensive ones. I love 50watt tube amps because you can hit the sweet spot at a more managable volume level than with 100 watters. The fact that you can get a Laney GH50L on eBay for $400 is just amazing, that is one of the best sounding amps on the planet, I implore anyone with an open mind to check one of those out, everyone I've turned on to the Laneys have flipped out once they plugged it in.

Elysian: Neat. Hopefully the first thing they teach you is to use JJ tubes


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## Donnie (Feb 6, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> I love 50watt tube amps because you can hit the sweet spot at a more managable volume level than with 100 watters.


I like that and I also like the fact that they break up quicker.
I love me some tight, focused metal tone but I also love it when the speakers start working really hard.


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## Drew (Feb 6, 2006)

My experience has also been that lower wattage amps sound slightly "rounder" and spongier than higher wattage ones even at low volumes, and while that's highly personal in that for some (me) it's a good thing while for others it's not, generally I've found that I prefer 50-watt or less tube rigs to anything else I've tried. 

As far as good solid state amps, I've always been really impressed by Tech-21's. The Trademark-60's high gain sounds leave a lot to be desired, but the "fender-y" side of that amp can get closer to SRV terrirory than many tube Fenders I've played, and the high-gain tones from the Trademark-10 are awesome - it'd make a great practice rig. However, that's really about the only solid state amp I've ever been seriously impressed with. I've played a few other that were decent, but nothing else that made me think, "Man, that sounds and feels pretty damned good."


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## Elysian (Feb 6, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> I've never played those, that's cool though. I love Peavey tube heads. I'm really intrigued to hear the Randall tube head I mentioned, I've had GREAT experiences with 50watt tube heads even inexpensive ones. I love 50watt tube amps because you can hit the sweet spot at a more managable volume level than with 100 watters. The fact that you can get a Laney GH50L on eBay for $400 is just amazing, that is one of the best sounding amps on the planet, I implore anyone with an open mind to check one of those out, everyone I've turned on to the Laneys have flipped out once they plugged it in.
> 
> Elysian: Neat. Hopefully the first thing they teach you is to use JJ tubes


thats all i used in my blue voodoo


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## Metal Ken (Feb 6, 2006)

I'd like to change my original obviously uninformed vote from solid state to tube ;D


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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 6, 2006)

Out of curiosity, how metal is that MP1? They've caught my eye for quite some time now.


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## Elysian (Feb 6, 2006)

i hated the mp-1 i tried on my other guitarists jcm800 last year... sounded like complete ass, and its bad when i can't even program a useable tone into it... i could squeeze a useable tone out of a pignose and a digitech death metal crapo distortion.


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## Drew (Feb 7, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> I'd like to change my original obviously uninformed vote from solid state to tube ;D


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## angryman (Feb 8, 2006)

theunforgiven246 said:


> 5150 MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHA



I'm with this guy  

I think you get more warmth & feel from a well driven Tube IMO.


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## angryman (Feb 8, 2006)

Gurj said:


> I've got my amp set to the "tight" setting and tubes are stock. But i've never been able to get a Dimebag growl out of it.
> But will try some JJ's down the road and have been thinking about trying the head with different cabs.



What Power Tubes are you using & is the Amp properly Biased? Because the Characteristics of a good JJ 6L6 are worlds apart from an EL34, the EL34 is a bit rougher giving the amp a more Marshall/Brit Tone while the 6L6 is alot smoother & more focused American type Tone.

XXX's are switchable aren't they?


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## angryman (Feb 8, 2006)

David said:


> I honestly can say that I do prefer the Vetta's to some of the better amps. A lot of the "better" amps, aren't consistentQUOTE]
> 
> The only problem with Line6 (and more likely than not) other modelling companies is that they base their modelled sounds on one indevidual amp i.e. one for Mesa, one for Marshall and so on.
> 
> But No two Amps by any one Company sound alike, every single Tube Amp in production has it's very own destinctive characteristics, thats why there is a lack of consistancy in Tube Amps. Every Tube Amp works the same way but at the same time reacts differently.


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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 8, 2006)

Ultimate tube setup for a XXX:

V1 = JJ EC803 S
V2 = JJ ECC832
V3 = JJ ECC83 S rated for high gain
V4 = JJ ECC83 S balanced

Power tubes = Ruby EL34BSTRS

Trust me on this one! It will sound like a completely different amp! 

Also, I used the tight setting for a few months and then switched to MID. I definately preferered the mid over the other 2 settings. It sounded louder, fuller, and more open.


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## angryman (Feb 8, 2006)

LordOVchaoS said:


> Ultimate tube setup for a XXX:
> 
> V1 = JJ EC803 S
> V2 = JJ ECC832
> ...



you ever owned a 5150 mkI per chance? If so what valves did you use in which position?


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## Toshiro (Feb 8, 2006)

I voted "whatever's on hand - no preference" a long time ago, and I stand by it. I've gotten good tube sounds, good SS sounds, and good modelling sounds over the years, and I still 'sound like me' through all three. I would rather focus on my playing over what amp I own. 

After watching the GAS/Hype fest on Harmony Central, I really don't care about my tone as much.

I prefer SS/Modelling now because I usually play guitar from 9pm to about 8am, since I work graveyard. I either play before work, or overnight on my days off(like tonight). It would be a huge pain to have a tube amp at this point in time. Will I own another tube amp in the future? Possibly, but the modellers are getting to the point where it's no longer important to me.


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## zimbloth (Feb 8, 2006)

angryman said:


> What Power Tubes are you using & is the Amp properly Biased? Because the Characteristics of a good JJ 6L6 are worlds apart from an EL34, the EL34 is a bit rougher giving the amp a more Marshall/Brit Tone while the 6L6 is alot smoother & more focused American type Tone.
> 
> XXX's are switchable aren't they?



Peavey XXX's are switchable, but if you goto EuroTubes.com, Bob explains that newer XXX's have some problems using his EL34 variant, you should read that info I don't remember what it was exactly but its good info for any Triple XXX user.


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## angryman (Feb 8, 2006)

Well i'm a 5150 user myself & have been for years, but you never know i may change my mind one day & try somethin new


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## SevenatoR (Feb 8, 2006)

I haven't been able to get back to this, but I wasn't trying to say that you have to have a Bogner or nothing at all, so I'll clarify. 

I still vote 'tube'. Doesn't have to cost more than your girlfriends boob job. A "good" tube amp with "good" tubes in it just sounds better to my ears. I've played several of both types over the years and to me a good tube amp is superior in sound and responsiveness than any SS amp I've ever played.

As always, YMMV


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## David (Feb 8, 2006)

angryman said:


> The only problem with Line6 (and more likely than not) other modelling companies is that they base their modelled sounds on one indevidual amp i.e. one for Mesa, one for Marshall and so on.
> 
> But No two Amps by any one Company sound alike, every single Tube Amp in production has it's very own destinctive characteristics, thats why there is a lack of consistancy in Tube Amps. Every Tube Amp works the same way but at the same time reacts differently.



And that's why I don't like tubes... except I'm going to be a hypocrite and get a tube poweramp from carvin... haha. All from 1 brand generally tend to sound along the same lines, and that's where the modeling companies base it off of, an average or, the best sounding to the majority of the people who'd buy it. I don't want a 1 in 5 chance of getting a good amp... (assuming it'd need to be custom ordered). I simply want my amp, to sound the way I want it to sound.

And then, over time, as the amp gets broken in, it can either turn to sounding like crap, or turn to sounding amazing. Sometimes the tubes warm up and just deliver a kick ass punching tone, sometimes it's weak as hell.


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## zimbloth (Feb 9, 2006)

David said:


> And that's why I don't like tubes... except I'm going to be a hypocrite and get a tube poweramp from carvin... haha. All from 1 brand generally tend to sound along the same lines, and that's where the modeling companies base it off of, an average or, the best sounding to the majority of the people who'd buy it. I don't want a 1 in 5 chance of getting a good amp... (assuming it'd need to be custom ordered). I simply want my amp, to sound the way I want it to sound.
> 
> And then, over time, as the amp gets broken in, it can either turn to sounding like crap, or turn to sounding amazing. Sometimes the tubes warm up and just deliver a kick ass punching tone, sometimes it's weak as hell.



Umm... no? No disrespect intended David, but honestly that was one of the most uninformed opinions I've ever seen. That's just full of factual wrongs there.

1) All tube amps from a given brand do not sound the same. A Mesa Dual Rectifier sounds nothing like a Caliber. A Peavey 5150 sounds nothing like a Peavey Classic. A Marshall JCM2000 DSL100 sounds nothing like a Jubilee or a JMP-1. I've heard all the modeling amps versions of these classic amps and most of the time they SOUND NOTHING LIKE ORIGINAL. I used to have a 1994 Dual Rectifier and a Pod Pro which had a the same model. It wasnt even close, you can't emulate that Rectifier tube sag that Mesa amps are so known for.

2) 1 in 5 chance of getting a good amp? Why would it need to be custom ordered? What are you talking about man? Any amp you try that you like, will sound that way always, unless you wait like 2 years without changing the tubes. 

3) Tube amps don't get "broken in", where on earth do you get this stuff from? Sometimes BRAND NEW tubes can be broken in after a few hours, beyond that the amp is going to sound EXACTLY THE SAME right up until the tubes wear out which is 1-2 years. They sound go from sounding like crap from amazing or vice versa? They dont 'sometimes warm up and deliver kickass tone and sometimes sound weak unless you're pissing on the pre-amp tubes while you're playing.

Honestly you're REALLY reaching now. If for whatever reason you prefer the tone of modeling amps over tubes fine, but don't go out of your way to just make shit up.


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 9, 2006)

It's a bit of a pointless arguement...I really believe that it's possible to get good sounds out of any decently made amp, regardless of the technology. Think, people used to rave about Ty Tabor's tone all the time, and it turned out that he used old Gibson solid-state amps!


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## Donnie (Feb 9, 2006)

distressed_romeo said:


> I really believe that it's possible to get good sounds out of any decently made amp, regardless of the technology.


Thank you. 
This argument is getting old. I've been half tempted to close this thread.


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## Toshiro (Feb 9, 2006)

distressed_romeo said:


> It's a bit of a pointless arguement...I really believe that it's possible to get good sounds out of any decently made amp, regardless of the technology. Think, people used to rave about Ty Tabor's tone all the time, and it turned out that he used old Gibson solid-state amps!



+10000000000

Play your guitar!  

Next we'll all have to have $400 knobs like those fuctard audiophiles.


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 9, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Next we'll all have to have $400 knobs like those fuctard audiophiles.


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## angryman (Feb 9, 2006)

HAHAHAHAHA IT'S NOT AN ARGUMENT IS A DISCUSSION! HAHAHAHAHA


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## Donnie (Feb 9, 2006)

Looks like an argument to me.  
It's just the same shit over and over and over...


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 9, 2006)

It is one of the never-ending arguements that seems to come up whenever a bunch of guitarists get together...can't we all agree to disagree?


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## zimbloth (Feb 9, 2006)

It's great to disagree and to have varying opinions, but when people just say things that are flat out untrue thats TRULY a waste of time and contributes nothing to a coherant discussion.


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## Toshiro (Feb 9, 2006)




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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 9, 2006)

angryman said:


> you ever owned a 5150 mkI per chance? If so what valves did you use in which position?



Nope, never had a 5150. Sorry.


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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 9, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Peavey XXX's are switchable, but if you goto EuroTubes.com, Bob explains that newer XXX's have some problems using his EL34 variant, you should read that info I don't remember what it was exactly but its good info for any Triple XXX user.



It has nothing to do with EL34s, it's JJ E34Ls that cause the problem. Different tube altogether but it will work in place of E34Ls in most allplcations, just not XXX's and JSX's.


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## Elysian (Feb 9, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> 3) Tube amps don't get "broken in", where on earth do you get this stuff from? Sometimes BRAND NEW tubes can be broken in after a few hours, beyond that the amp is going to sound EXACTLY THE SAME right up until the tubes wear out which is 1-2 years. They sound go from sounding like crap from amazing or vice versa? They dont 'sometimes warm up and deliver kickass tone and sometimes sound weak unless you're pissing on the pre-amp tubes while you're playing.



tube amps can sound different from day to day, even a change in the weather can make them sound different. happened a lot at band practice with my other guitarist, sometimes his amp would sound decent, other times itd sound horrible. a tube amp will never sound "exactly the same" all the time, they are not very concise, not very exacting.


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## darren (Feb 9, 2006)

The other guitarist in my band just bought a solid state GBX amplifier. These were made by a small Canadian company back in the '70s. A rehearsal studio where we used to play had one, and when Steve plugged his Epiphone SG and old Boss multi-effect box into it, the sound was incredible and totally unique. 

To me, there's no "good" or "bad"... just varying shades of "different". I love finding unique tones and voices that fit the songs, which is why i choose the modeling approach, and try all kinds of different guitars in the mix (this is why i just bought a Danelectro). 

I _do_ run my modeler through a tube power amp, but it's a subjective thing. I like the warm, glassy sound of tubes. But a good solid-state amp is also a great thing. As long as you have enough headroom, they're transparent, powerful and maintenance-free. Tubes do tend to add "colour" to the sound, and do require more TLC over time.


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## Elysian (Feb 9, 2006)

adding color to the sound is exactly why i bought a solid state power amp. something i did not want, because i know how my vamp sounds when i record it, and i wanted that sound live, even with a real cab i still get the exact sound i want.


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## Drew (Feb 9, 2006)

Elysian said:


> tube amps can sound different from day to day, even a change in the weather can make them sound different. happened a lot at band practice with my other guitarist, sometimes his amp would sound decent, other times itd sound horrible. a tube amp will never sound "exactly the same" all the time, they are not very concise, not very exacting.



First off, I think you meant "consistant," not "concise," which means quick and to the point.  

While it's true that tube amps do vary slightly from day to day, the extent to which they vary (provided we're talking about a modern, well-made amp) is INCREDIBLY slight. There are some days when I turn on my Nomad, and it just sounds ungodly good. There are others when I turn it on, and it merely sounds excellent. I've never turned on an amp and had it sound "bad," only to come back another day and have it sound much better. 

And honestly, I'm not sure how much of that is 1.) psychological, some sort of a "placebo effect" where I just haven't played in a little while, or my ears are fatigued, or what, and 2.) how much of that is due to the impact of the tone of my fingers varying day to day, pronounced by the fact my amp is incredibly tonally responsibe to my playing touch (argually more so than a digital rig where, no matter how you look at it, it's undeniable a certian amount of data is being lost due to sampling rates). I can actually hear the difference in tone through my rig between when my fingers are really cold (and thus the calluses are stiffer, which translates to a brighter finger tone) and when they're warmer. 

So, I think arguing "tubes suck because some days they sound better than others" is kinda like arguing "Southern California sucks because some days it's 67 and others it's 69." Honestly, that sort of a difference is just splitting hairs, and if you want to hate Southern California and that's all you can find to hate it for, then that sort of speaks volumes for your credibility and expertise on the subject. I'm not saying it's not ok to hate SoCal, to extend the metaphor, I'm just saying if you do make sure you're not making excuses for yourself, you know?


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## Elysian (Feb 9, 2006)

Drew said:


> First off, I think you meant "consistant," not "concise," which means quick and to the point.
> 
> While it's true that tube amps do vary slightly from day to day, the extent to which they vary (provided we're talking about a modern, well-made amp) is INCREDIBLY slight. There are some days when I turn on my Nomad, and it just sounds ungodly good. There are others when I turn it on, and it merely sounds excellent. I've never turned on an amp and had it sound "bad," only to come back another day and have it sound much better.
> 
> ...



i think it might be more of a YMMV thing then, as the difference with his jcm800 was usually really really noticeable. my blue voodoo especially had its off days when the tubes were dying, but after i replaced them and rebiased them it was alright, the difference usually wasn't so huge, but i hardly got through the break in period before i sold it and adopted my vamp pro rig full time.


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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 9, 2006)

A lot of it has to do with the consistency of the electricity. My house is OLD and the wiring sucks ass so there are some days my amp sounds like ass and others it just blows my head off. I've experimented. If I turn everything else off in my house except maybe my computer and one light bulb my amp sounds quite a bit better than if I have all kinds of shit running at the same time. 

In new houses it's not much of an issue unless your electric company sucks or the guy that wired your house is an idiot.


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## Elysian (Feb 9, 2006)

LordOVchaoS said:


> A lot of it has to do with the consistency of the electricity. My house is OLD and the wiring sucks ass so there are some days my amp sounds like ass and others it just blows my head off. I've experimented. If I turn everything else off in my house except maybe my computer and one light bulb my amp sounds quite a bit better than if I have all kinds of shit running at the same time.
> 
> In new houses it's not much of an issue unless your electric company sucks or the guy that wired your house is an idiot.


buy a power conditioner


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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 9, 2006)

Elysian said:


> buy a power conditioner



Heh, someday. Tax return coming soon!


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## darren (Feb 9, 2006)

I just ordered a matched set of replacement tubes from Eurotubes for my Peavey Classic 50/50. I was surprised that they were actually pretty reasonably priced, considering there's 16 tubes involved.


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## Leon (Feb 9, 2006)

Drew said:


> There are some days when I turn on my Nomad, and it just sounds ungodly good. There are others when I turn it on, and it merely sounds excellent.




that's good stuff 

[action=Leon]will never sell his Mesa Nomad.[/action]


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## Metal Ken (Feb 9, 2006)

Elysian said:


> i hated the mp-1 i tried on my other guitarists jcm800 last year... sounded like complete ass, and its bad when i can't even program a useable tone into it... i could squeeze a useable tone out of a pignose and a digitech death metal crapo distortion.


 I On the otherhand found it to be quite usuable. With a sonic maximizer in my rack, it slays. SUPREME thrash tone. Its got more of an hotrodded marshall type vibe as opposed to a mesa sound, though you can mod them to get a mesa sound. i gotta get the EQ in my rack, but once i do im sure i'll be totally satisfied.. that and when i get a 4x12 cabinet. 2x15 just doesnt cut it...


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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 9, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> I On the otherhand found it to be quite usuable. With a sonic maximizer in my rack, it slays. SUPREME thrash tone. Its got more of an hotrodded marshall type vibe as opposed to a mesa sound, though you can mod them to get a mesa sound. i gotta get the EQ in my rack, but once i do im sure i'll be totally satisfied.. that and when i get a 4x12 cabinet. 2x15 just doesnt cut it...



2X15 =  

I'm trying to find something to spend a portion of my tax return on and I think an MP-1 with the 3 tube mod is the winner so far. I just wanted somebody who is as metal as yourself to confirm that it is a good preamp. I know lots of 80's metal guys who dig it but haven't heard much about how well it does death metal. You and I share a very similar music taste so I'll take your word for it.


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## Elysian (Feb 9, 2006)

imo you should go with a digitech gsp 2101 with dual s disc. owns the mp1 in every possible way, quite possibly one of the most tweakable units on the planet.


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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 10, 2006)

Elysian said:


> imo you should go with a digitech gsp 2101 with dual s disc. owns the mp1 in every possible way, quite possibly one of the most tweakable units on the planet.



noted, thanks for the suggestion!


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## David (Feb 10, 2006)

Elysian said:


> tube amps can sound different from day to day, even a change in the weather can make them sound different. happened a lot at band practice with my other guitarist, sometimes his amp would sound decent, other times itd sound horrible. a tube amp will never sound "exactly the same" all the time, they are not very concise, not very exacting.


thank you.

zimbloth:
yeah, no disrespect... I come to discussion forums for a discussion forums. Wether I own or get owned doesn't matter, everyone always ends up learning something, and that's what it's all about.

OK, what I said WAS true. All Mesa's have a distinct mesa tone that you can distinguish. All Marshall's have a distinct Marshall tone you can distinguish. You waaaay over analyzed what I said... so... each company obviously has different models of their amps to produce a different sound, while still usually retaining the same base core of their sound. Each model... isn't off of a WHOLE company... I'm just talking like a Marshall head... so the model is specific. The Plexi Lead I think is a JCM 800, then a Plexi Super Lead is a JCM DSL 2000 or something. NOW, not every JCM 800 head sounds the same. Some are warmer, some are higher gain... there isn't much consistency. It's just like Gibson guitars, 1 in 5 is a jem. SO, when I was saying they average it out, I meant they average out the sound of that specific model amp. I've played on about 13 JCM 800 heads, and 2 sounded amazing, the others I would never care to buy. Tube amps are NOT consistent.

Ok... custom order. Say you walk into the shop and you want to buy a JCM 800 head. They are out of them. So you have them order it for you. Well not every JCM 800 head is going to sound the exact same... you really have to try out each tube amp to make sure it's the right sound.

Many tube amps are like stratovarious instruments... they get better with a little age. Many get warmer, and more consistent over time. If all you do is overdrive or distort your amp till you can't even hear any tone... then it's not going to matter anyway. 



> Honestly you're REALLY reaching now. If for whatever reason you prefer the tone of modeling amps over tubes fine, but don't go out of your way to just make shit up.


I find that EXTREMELY ironic since _pretty_ _much_ everything that you contradicted of mine... was deemed false... AND, you were the one who questioned the effectiveness of a trem on the Agile thread. If you don't know the benefits of a simple trem, then the validity of this to me, goes down. Once again, no disrespect... I'm just pointing out how I'm viewing this, it just sounds evil.


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## David (Feb 10, 2006)

oh yeah! and donnie! it's cool, leave it open... I'm really curious about tube amps considering that I'm getting that tube poweramp.


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## Donnie (Feb 10, 2006)

Don't worry. I just get tired of the back and forth shit.  If you like tubes, great. If you like solid state, great.


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## David (Feb 10, 2006)

Donnie said:


> Don't worry. I just get tired of the back and forth shit.  If you like tubes, great. If you like solid state, great.


haha, yeah... but I'm inbetween!!! I'm stuck in the middle! I need closure! lol.


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## Donnie (Feb 10, 2006)

Yeah. I like some tube amps and I like some solid state ones. It's not hard to coax a good tone out of either.


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## zimbloth (Feb 10, 2006)

Elysian said:


> tube amps can sound different from day to day, even a change in the weather can make them sound different. happened a lot at band practice with my other guitarist, sometimes his amp would sound decent, other times itd sound horrible. a tube amp will never sound "exactly the same" all the time, they are not very concise, not very exacting.



Your other guitarists amp is clearly malfunctioning then. That should never happen, and never has to me or anyone else I know with dozens of different amps. Tube amps are completely consistent sounding everyday, except when obviously tubes are dying.


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## zimbloth (Feb 10, 2006)

David said:


> thank you.
> 
> zimbloth:
> yeah, no disrespect... I come to discussion forums for a discussion forums. Wether I own or get owned doesn't matter, everyone always ends up learning something, and that's what it's all about.
> ...



What on earth are you talking about? I never questioned the trem on an Agile thread. I questioned why no one was buying the hardtail models. I know how useful a trem can be. Look over to the left side of the screen and look at what my main guitars are.

As for everything else you said, I don't have the time to respond to each point (of course all manufacturers have some distinct sound in all their product line, this just in: humans need oxygen) so I'll just summarize my thoughts by saying: whatever.


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## Toshiro (Feb 10, 2006)

Dude, just face it:

Some people actually prefer SS/modelling to tubes. You might not agree with them, you might think that they're stupid, but it doesn't make them wrong.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Feb 10, 2006)

I dunno, I still love the feel of a good tube setup,there's a certain, i don't know, feel behind it. It's weird. It's mainly the power amp though. I really can't live without a tubed power amp 

 I miss playing through my rig (it currently being ill and in the repair shop...)


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## angryman (Feb 10, 2006)

LordOVchaoS said:


> Nope, never had a 5150. Sorry.



Oh well just thought i'd ask


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## angryman (Feb 10, 2006)

At the end of the day it's all a bit meaningless because every Guitarist hears a Tone in their head & thats the Tone that they want, so it doesn't matter whether we employ Tubes or Solid State or Digital or whatever all that matters is that we create the Tone WE want.

It's not about who's right or wrong, or whats best or worst, it's about what works best for YOU!


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## zimbloth (Feb 10, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Dude, just face it:
> 
> Some people actually prefer SS/modelling to tubes. You might not agree with them, you might think that they're stupid, but it doesn't make them wrong.



Jeez, you guys just don't get it. For the MILLIONTH TIME, I don't care if someone prefers ss/digital over tubes. I'll say it again. I don't care if someone prefers ss/digital over a tube amp. I'll say one last time that I'm simply responding to gross misinformation, not people's opinions - but factual wrongs. Sometimes in life opinions can be wrong if they're based on misinformation and are clearly inaccurate. 

For example. 2+2=3? Incorrect. Someone's Mesa Triaxis' tone will change if it's snowing outside? INCORRECT. Etc.

Stop being so defensive.


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## Donnie (Feb 10, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> 2+2=3? Incorrect.


2+2 does, infact, equal 'chair'.


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## Metal Ken (Feb 10, 2006)

LordOVchaoS said:


> 2X15 =
> 
> I'm trying to find something to spend a portion of my tax return on and I think an MP-1 with the 3 tube mod is the winner so far. I just wanted somebody who is as metal as yourself to confirm that it is a good preamp. I know lots of 80's metal guys who dig it but haven't heard much about how well it does death metal. You and I share a very similar music taste so I'll take your word for it.


I was seriously considering the 3tm but i decided to hold off on it. A Sonic Maximizer works wonders though.


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## Drew (Feb 10, 2006)

Donnie said:


> 2+2 does, infact, equal 'chair'.



It sure as hell does if you use a big enough stack of paper to prove it out, and then sit on it.


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## LordOVchaoS (Feb 10, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> I was seriously considering the 3tm but i decided to hold off on it. A Sonic Maximizer works wonders though.




There's a place on the web, adadepot.com I believe, that sells the DIY circuitboards to upgrade to 3 tubes yourself. I think that's the route I may go, buy one then mod it myself.


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## Metal Ken (Feb 11, 2006)

Yep, ADA Depot. Im gonna buy my foot controller from them. they used to be like 75$.. but the newest batch went up to 150... that made me consider the 3.666 mod.


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## David (Feb 11, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Dude, just face it:
> 
> Some people actually prefer SS/modelling to tubes. You might not agree with them, you might think that they're stupid, but it doesn't make them wrong.


if that was towards me too... I was just pointing out the cons... I ordered a Carvin tube poweramp, which is a little ironic.


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## Toshiro (Feb 11, 2006)

David said:


> if that was towards me too... I was just pointing out the cons... I ordered a Carvin tube poweramp, which is a little ironic.



Um, no it wasn't.........


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## Toshiro (Feb 11, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Jeez, you guys just don't get it. For the MILLIONTH TIME, I don't care if someone prefers ss/digital over tubes. I'll say it again. I don't care if someone prefers ss/digital over a tube amp. I'll say one last time that I'm simply responding to gross misinformation, not people's opinions - but factual wrongs. Sometimes in life opinions can be wrong if they're based on misinformation and are clearly inaccurate.
> 
> For example. 2+2=3? Incorrect. Someone's Mesa Triaxis' tone will change if it's snowing outside? INCORRECT. Etc.
> 
> Stop being so defensive.



Defensive? Annoyed more like it. Through the whole thread the sum total of your posts is:

"Tubes sound better and if you don't think so you're deaf/dumb/blind."

I'm done with this, it's pointless.


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## zimbloth (Feb 12, 2006)

Wow, I don't know how many times I have to explain that I don't mind peoples opinions, opinions were never the issue - I was responding to some factual misconceptions. Doesn't matter what I say though, it's apparent you want to put words in my mouth regardless.


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## David (Feb 12, 2006)

Toshiro said:


> Defensive? Annoyed more like it. Through the whole thread the sum total of your posts is:
> 
> "Tubes sound better and if you don't think so you're deaf/dumb/blind."
> 
> I'm done with this, it's pointless.



hahah!

[sarcasm]

Yes Toshiro... you are a total pathetic loser... stop shredding you fret wanker 

[/sarcasm]


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## kovachian (Feb 12, 2006)

I like both actually, although there's definitely shitty examples of both. I had a Marshall SL-X 100w before I got a Vetta. Having been disappointed with other transistor amps, I was skeptical at first. After I tried out an upgraded Vetta I, it was all over; the Marshall went straight to Ebay and I don't miss it one bit.

Much as I loved my SL-X, my tastes were expanding and the Marshall just wasn't versatile enough to cover all the bases. I have neither the money, space nor desire to own a plethora of amps, cabinets and effects. Fact is, Vettas have fooled even the most die-hard tubies in blind tests.

That's not to say I'll never own a tube amp again, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.


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## David (Feb 12, 2006)

kovachian said:


> I like both actually, although there's definitely shitty examples of both. I had a Marshall SL-X 100w before I got a Vetta. Having been disappointed with other transistor amps, I was skeptical at first. After I tried out an upgraded Vetta I, it was all over; the Marshall went straight to Ebay and I don't miss it one bit.
> 
> Much as I loved my SL-X, my tastes were expanding and the Marshall just wasn't versatile enough to cover all the bases. I have neither the money, space nor desire to own a plethora of amps, cabinets and effects. Fact is, Vettas have fooled even the most die-hard tubies in blind tests.
> 
> That's not to say I'll never own a tube amp again, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.



I hear you, that's where I'm at


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## bostjan (Feb 12, 2006)

I like tubes. I've heard some damn good solid state amps, though. I think something like a simul-state amp would be perfect, except it would probably weigh 70 kg, draw 20 amps, and have too many settings to wrestle with.


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## eaeolian (Mar 9, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Your other guitarists amp is clearly malfunctioning then. That should never happen, and never has to me or anyone else I know with dozens of different amps. Tube amps are completely consistent sounding everyday, except when obviously tubes are dying.



Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what happened here, but you're right - amp sound in a room will change slightly day to day, as the temp and humidity change (thus affecting how the sound waves propogate), and that happens with both types - thats the speaker coupling with your ear, not a function of the type of amplifier being used. (I've experienced it with both tube AND solid state.)

That said, tubes still sound better.


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## zimbloth (Mar 9, 2006)

I just tried my Mesa Rectifier Pre thru one of my 2:90s, holy shit that sounds awesome, way better than with the 2:50. Yeah irrelevant to the topic, but this topic is tired and old anyways


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## BCrowell (Mar 9, 2006)

Currently I'm a tube/ss pre with SS amp guy......who wants to be an all out TUBE guy after an eye opening experience. For the most part I've agreed with both sides at one time. Now I want tube...everynight I scour adds & EBAY, but to be honest, I'm lost... 

I've always been a fan of combining them both. My favorite patches on the 2120 are those that combine the two!! Even today I see almost every pro player having a tube amp with a Keeley DS-1 layin around...same principle really.

I cried at the prices of good tube amps... and searched for alternatives. Now I found the ValveFX tube pre was good until I heard the VAMP 2, and my VAMP, that cost 1/5 of the digitech, sounded BETTER (not the FXs but the dist). I 100% agree with Elysian that the VAMP line is a great unit. IN FACT, I've gotten GREAT comments from it from ya'll!! My recent Satch "Always..." vid & recent "Freewill" tune, were all recorded with the VAMP->SS Hafler Amp->SM57. 

So here I was finally happy with the BANG FOR THE BUCK. Sure I knew it wasn't perfect and a little noisy, but I would other wise have to own a TripRect for the RUSH stuff and a SOLDANO/5150 for the satch stuff, to get the right sounds. While I can DIAL them in on the VAMP (AND YES it takes allot of tweeking of the VAMP to get it there).

The FX reeked on the VAMP though, and bought a 2120. So then I was happy running the Vamp Dry into the 2120, and out to the SS-head. 

So here I was pretty damn happy with my sound, and then Dave and others give me a wake up call. Statements of "too digital" and "pristine", "lacks warmth" came from my tune reviews of the guitar sound.

I just DIDn't BELIEVE it. So I started playing every tube amp I could find, and as my VAMP indicated, I like the SOLDANO amp sound. SO the peavey Trip XXX, JSX, V3, Randall M100, were the primary ones on the list. BOY WAS I BLOWN AWAY...even the CLEANS on the JSX where enough to make me water... The dist where noticeably BETTER than my VAMP. The VAMP, was like hearing a real amp in the closet!! The REAL DEAL was so ALIVE!

So here I am 100% converted, and then the price tags flipped over, and squashed me like a bug. They where ALL in "DIVORCE" territory (1000$+). The best deals on these amps used I can find are ~750$... still a bit much but more reasonable. In all honesty I need to find a SOLUTION to my TUBE needs for 500$

I can find PARTIAL solutions, like Tube POWER AMP, but I can't really find a good "SOLDANO" like PRE. If I had the money a JSX or RANDALL M100 with A G-Force would be my rig, but I don't. 

I NEED SERIOUS ADVICE/HELP! I don't know how I'm gonna afford to convert!!!!


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## zimbloth (Mar 9, 2006)

BCrowell said:


> Currently I'm a tube/ss pre with SS amp guy......who wants to be an all out TUBE guy after an eye opening experience. For the most part I've agreed with both sides at one time. Now I want tube...everynight I scour adds & EBAY, but to be honest, I'm lost...
> 
> I've always been a fan of combining them both. My favorite patches on the 2120 are those that combine the two!! Even today I see almost every pro player having a tube amp with a Keeley DS-1 layin around...same principle really.
> 
> ...



The JSX is very similar to the Ultra Plus or Triple XXX, each can be had affordably. I've seen Ultra's go for under $300, and XXX's go for ~$500. If you want you can put EL34s in the XXX to get it more like the JSX, but I think the Triple XXX or Ultra Plus with good 6L6 tubes sound AMAZING.

Trust me, Soldanos and everything else are nice, but you don't need to spend a ton to get a great sounding rig that you'd be happy with.

My recommendation would be, if you're into the JSX, scour ebay/wherever for a used Peavey XXX and/or Ultra Plus head. The JSX is a XXX with a noisegate, basically the same tone more or less.


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## Elysian (Mar 9, 2006)

BCrowell said:


> Currently I'm a tube/ss pre with SS amp guy......who wants to be an all out TUBE guy after an eye opening experience. For the most part I've agreed with both sides at one time. Now I want tube...everynight I scour adds & EBAY, but to be honest, I'm lost...
> 
> I've always been a fan of combining them both. My favorite patches on the 2120 are those that combine the two!! Even today I see almost every pro player having a tube amp with a Keeley DS-1 layin around...same principle really.
> 
> ...


did you ever try the vamp with cab sim off through a real cab? you lose that "through the closet" sound completely. its tremendous through a good cab.


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## zimbloth (Mar 9, 2006)

Elysian said:


> did you ever try the vamp with cab sim off through a real cab? you lose that "through the closet" sound completely. its tremendous through a good cab.



well i get that effect whenever i hear a tube amp after playing a digital, maybe thats what he means. but yeah, the cab sim off does help a lot. i had a pod pro once that i used thru a mesa 4x12, it sounded okay for practicing but it wasnt present or 'real' enough sounding for my tastes :|

ive never played any of the behringer stuff though.


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## Elysian (Mar 9, 2006)

behringer sounds so different from the line 6 stuff, imo they haven't put out a model yet that is even remotely on par with the vamp pro, and they are already what 1 or 2 generations ahead of the vamp pro?


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## zimbloth (Mar 10, 2006)

That's cool man, I'll have to check one out sometime, I'm more than content with my tube amps, but it would be nice to have something like that I can use with headphones or direct recording or whatever.


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## Elysian (Mar 10, 2006)

thats what i origionally bought mine for, it just slowly made its way into my live rig lol, till i finally just got rid of my blue voodoo...


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## BCrowell (Mar 10, 2006)

Elysian, good point about the CAB Emulation... I bet it's STILL set on. I've modified just about every setting but the type/cab emulation on the patches. I'll check that tonight. It makes sense, that with cab em & a cab there are too many frequencies getting cut, giving me that somewhat muffled sound.

Still it's a little more than muffled... the pure tube amp seemed so sensitive to what and how I was playing, so ALIVE! I can't explain it... other than it felt like a truer extension of me.

Currently i've just been running the V-amp through the 2120 FX Return, and out from there to the Hafler SS amp and to the 2x12 Marshall JCM900 Lead 1936. 

I also bought the Vamp as a portable practice amp, and when it sounded better than my ValveFX I was completely shocked.


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## thor von clemson (Mar 10, 2006)

TUBES RULE THE WORLD!!! ANYONE WHO DOES NOT LIKE THEM SHOULD BE SHOT!! 

Seriously though, I am totally kidding. Why does everyone care so much? I do not, by any means, want to sound critical of other people's opinions. Whether it is tube,ss,modeling, or a donkey having it's nuts squeezed, if it sounds good to you then who gives a flip? I think a few people have said similar things to what I just said. 

IMO, all that matters is that you like what you hear. 

I like Line 6 stuff. Their gear has been very fruitful with me over the years. It started with a Flextone II HD head and now I am on a POD XT Live through a pair of powered monitors... Sounds unbelievable and is perfect for me and home/studio use. I am thinking about picking up another Flextone II HD for rehersal and gigs. I like the way it sounds, my band likes the way it sounds, and the audience seems to as well... Well I dunno about the dudes in the pit, but I have a hard time thinking my amp was not contributing to the madness..


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## zimbloth (Mar 10, 2006)

BCrowell said:


> Still it's a little more than muffled... the pure tube amp seemed so sensitive to what and how I was playing, so ALIVE! I can't explain it... other than it felt like a truer extension of me.



That's what only a good tube amp can provide. I know just how you're feeling. Hopefully you'll get a good tone out of the Behringer, but nothing can emulate a tube amp


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## guitarjitsumaster (Mar 10, 2006)

What is it with tube nazi's. Theyre just mesmorized by hot light bulbs. I dont get it? I suppose the tube amps give you the benefit of being able to heat your cold pizza on your amp while your playing  






 Oh tube please grant thine magical powers of good tone and I will never consider any other possibility and shalt serve thou with all my might and never betray thou to better technology

You know im only kiddin right


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## Donnie (Mar 10, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> That's what only a good tube amp can provide.



Bullshit.


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## eaeolian (Mar 10, 2006)

Donnie said:


> Bullshit.



I've played some solid state stuff that sounded good. I used a SS rig for many years. I went back to tubes, because nothing else gets the same "magic". I hear good modeling tones, but they're always missing something to me, for my personal tone.


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## Donnie (Mar 10, 2006)

I know I've said it before but I put my Vetta combo up against my buddies Roadking combo. Same settings. And even he, being a tube purist, couldn't tell the difference. 
I don't know, maybe I just have a really good ear for setting them up.
But, in the end, I didn't buy my Vettas because I wanted to sound like a certain tube amp. I bought them because I wanted a Vetta.
As soon as we get our cd recorded, it'll be all Vetta. Hopefully it'll do it justice.


edit: And let me ad... This argument is still retarded. Play what you play. Who cares. I'm done.


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## Jeff (Mar 10, 2006)

BCrowell said:


> I NEED SERIOUS ADVICE/HELP! I don't know how I'm gonna afford to convert!!!!



I'd give a ValveKing serious consideration, as well as the Carvin MTS series. Good shit for fair prices.

The tube vs. SS debate is retarded. I am a "convert", but I still use the PODxt for recording, and will continue to do so, as it provides far more versatility. But I do enjoy the VK for its tones, albeit far more limited than a modeling setup. There's something different about it, and that difference is something I enjoy for the time being. 

But I don't think the actual sound is different; more the feel than anything else. And I am sure eventually even that will be a moot point.


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## eaeolian (Mar 10, 2006)

Donnie said:


> edit: And let me ad... This argument is still retarded. Play what you play. Who cares. I'm done.



Which is why I said they don't work for my tone. Sheesh.


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## David (Mar 10, 2006)

Jeff said:



> I'd give a ValveKing serious consideration, as well as the Carvin MTS series. Good shit for fair prices.
> 
> The tube vs. SS debate is retarded. I am a "convert", but I still use the PODxt for recording, and will continue to do so, as it provides far more versatility. But I do enjoy the VK for its tones, albeit far more limited than a modeling setup. There's something different about it, and that difference is something I enjoy for the time being.
> 
> But I don't think the actual sound is different; more the feel than anything else. And I am sure eventually even that will be a moot point.


Carvin MTS = shit. There is no "good" infront of the shit... I had one.


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## Jeff (Mar 10, 2006)

David said:


> Carvin MTS = shit. There is no "good" infront of the shit... I had one.



That would be your opinion, of which there are a lot of people that disagree. Me being one of them.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Mar 10, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> I've played some solid state stuff that sounded good. I used a SS rig for many years. I went back to tubes, because nothing else gets the same "magic". I hear good modeling tones, but they're always missing something to me, for my personal tone.



Tube vs Solid State? I am a devout tube fan. There's just something about the sound that when you get it right notes just sizzle through the air, it's a weird thing to describe really... best way of describing it is seeing bands using pods and my own experience having used one live for a backup as my rig went down. Basically they miss that projection and spark. It's weird to describe, it really is.

But it is personal taste, and i'd wager SS is better at making everything tight and cristal clear, whereas i do like the amp to colour the sound.

Personal Preference. And I will quite happily remain an utter tube Nazi.


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## David (Mar 10, 2006)

Jeff said:


> That would be your opinion, of which there are a lot of people that disagree. Me being one of them.


Well... mine sounded less warm than a solid state... chrunched so that you couldn't really hear notes distinctly, and sounded like there was a wet towel over the cab. Trust me, NOBODY would like that tone.


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## Jeff (Mar 10, 2006)

David said:


> Well... mine sounded less warm than a solid state... chrunched so that you couldn't really hear notes distinctly, and sounded like there was a wet towel over the cab. Trust me, NOBODY would like that tone.



Perhaps you had a lemon. I've heard plenty of clips that dictate otherwise, in addition to my own experience with them. But to each his own.


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## BCrowell (Mar 11, 2006)

I will be sure to check out the Carvin if I can find one in a store.
....which, there in lies my MAJOR problem. I can scour the net and find reasonable priced tube amps for sale, but I don't like buying something just by word of mouth, but it certainly helps! Finding stores with amps I can try out is difficult, especially in these "Wal-mart" type music stores nowadays.

I know EXACTLY what sound I'm looking for, and have found several high dollar amps that give me 90% of what I want, but just can't afford them. I need some more lower dollar solutions. I've recently heard some good things about B-52s, and they are RIGHT in my price range... anyone play on them? Should I bother checking them out?

I agree the emulators will never leave me, I find them TOO invaluable, and I'm sure they'll always find their way on a couple tracks. Heck, I do so many covers from different genre's that I'd be stuck with out the range of amp sounds I can emulate with the Behringer. Still I'd like my primary sound to be that "magical" tube goodness that just completes me!!


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## Metal Ken (Mar 11, 2006)

BCrowell said:


> I can scour the net and find reasonable priced tube amps for sale, but I don't like buying something just by word of mouth, but it certainly helps!


 On the upside, if you buy something on ebay, generally, if you dont like it, you can turn around and sell it for pretty much what you got. Which is a plus. 

As far as the vetta thing..Does it have the response and dynamics of a tube amp as well? (Just curious).


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## David (Mar 11, 2006)

B-52's, every says they are the shit, I think they are the shit. My tone tends to be fairly low end, and the ones I played on were pretty high middish and too punchy.

A problem with buying things by word of mouth, is generally the people who tell you what is good happen to have a totally different style than your own. What works for someone else, doesn't necessarily cut it for you, as we've seen in this thread. Carvin has to be the most unintelligent bunch of guitar manufacturing business men... because the clips on their site suck... and that's all you can go off of unless you know someone who has one.


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## BCrowell (Mar 12, 2006)

That's true, you can just put things back on ebay... I'm doing that with my 2112->2120 unit... 

I think I'm just gonna take some time and save for what I KNOW I like, which is most likely gonna me a Peavey JSX.... It may take a couple more months of saving but I should be able to afford a used one then!


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## Metal Ken (Mar 12, 2006)

Brian - Would you be willing to trade anything for a 2120? (Perhaps a EQ & ADA MP1+cash? I originally wanted a 2101 but i didnt have the money at the time and got an ADA.. which sounds awesome, but i still want a Digitech, lol)


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## Drew (Mar 12, 2006)

David said:


> A problem with buying things by word of mouth, is generally the people who tell you what is good happen to have a totally different style than your own. What works for someone else, doesn't necessarily cut it for you, as we've seen in this thread.



There's also the "Harmony Central Factor," as I call it, where someone goes out, buys a peice of gear, and promptly starts recommending it to the rest of the world. I'm not saying I'm entirely innocent here, with my Nomad pimping, but I think it's undeniable that, when someone buys something, they like to talk about how cool it is and dont like to hear other people say it ISN'T the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's almost like it's a way of justifying their purchase as much as it is a recommendation.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Mar 12, 2006)

Drew said:


> There's also the "Harmony Central Factor," as I call it, where someone goes out, buys a peice of gear, and promptly starts recommending it to the rest of the world. I'm not saying I'm entirely innocent here, with my Nomad pimping, but I think it's undeniable that, when someone buys something, they like to talk about how cool it is and dont like to hear other people say it ISN'T the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's almost like it's a way of justifying their purchase as much as it is a recommendation.



case in point: look at the rocktron hush super-C reviews. It is a pile of shit but some people still feel the need to justify buying it. I just sold mine instead 

And this thread has inspired my new tube nazi avatar


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## BCrowell (Mar 13, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> Brian - Would you be willing to trade anything for a 2120? (Perhaps a EQ & ADA MP1+cash? I originally wanted a 2101 but i didnt have the money at the time and got an ADA.. which sounds awesome, but i still want a Digitech, lol)



Yeah I'd probably be willin' to trade for some other gear, but I don't need any other pre's or EQs... I have a JX-3 and a Valve FX & Vamp, so I'm good there. I won't be using that stuff anymore either when I get the JSX. I'll be looking for a G-Major very soon.

BTW, It's actually a 2112 upgraded to a 2120. It has brand new matched Groove tubes as well. It's a really cool unit, far superior to my Valve FX. Highly modifiable, but has a decent learning curve (at first I hated using it, but now that I've gotten the hange of it, it's pretty adaptable...almost TOO adaptable!) You can bypass the gain stage with the FX return loop.


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## Metal Ken (Mar 13, 2006)

Ah, okay.. well, thats pretty much all i have to trade, lol.


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## David (Mar 13, 2006)

Drew said:


> There's also the "Harmony Central Factor," as I call it, where someone goes out, buys a peice of gear, and promptly starts recommending it to the rest of the world. I'm not saying I'm entirely innocent here, with my Nomad pimping, but I think it's undeniable that, when someone buys something, they like to talk about how cool it is and dont like to hear other people say it ISN'T the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's almost like it's a way of justifying their purchase as much as it is a recommendation.


Another thing with the "Harmony Central Factor," is that often times people will put the review up after playing it for an hour or two... now if it's a tube amp... you should probably work it in for a few weeks.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Mar 14, 2006)

Unless your talking to a tube nazi. Theyll reccomend anything with a hot lightbulb  

I love tubeheads. I remember when I went to purchase my warhead and the guitarcenter guy points toward the little fender combo and goes, "yeah, but this is a tube amp"


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## Drew (Mar 14, 2006)

David said:


> Another thing with the "Harmony Central Factor," is that often times people will put the review up after playing it for an hour or two... now if it's a tube amp... you should probably work it in for a few weeks.



Hahaha, there's that too. Good catch. 

Guitarjitsumaster, not ALL of us are that bad, lol. I'm a total tube head, but I'd never expect a small tube combo to provide the sort of gain someone wanting a Randall would be looking for...

....although I will say that I was shocked just how heavy an intelligently-set Metal Zone sounded through a buddy's small tube fender - it's an amp with a lot of depth to it, which works srprisingly well for metal if you add enough gain out front...


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## ts73 (Mar 14, 2006)

Drew said:


> ....although I will say that I was shocked just how heavy an intelligently-set Metal Zone sounded through a buddy's small tube fender - it's an amp with a lot of depth to it, which works srprisingly well for metal if you add enough gain out front...



Hmm, I'm still temted to try my Twin Reverb through a half-stack, with a high-gain pedal in front of it... maybe converting it to a head would be an interesting option, instead of trading it for another amp. 
But yeah, I can't help but roll my eyes when I read a gear review and someone states that they just stopped at GC after school and played it for half an hour.


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## eaeolian (Mar 14, 2006)

Drew said:


> I'm a total tube head, but I'd never expect a small tube combo to provide the sort of gain someone wanting a Randall would be looking for...



I would. It usually says "Mesa" on the front of it.


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## Drew (Mar 14, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> I would. It usually says "Mesa" on the front of it.



D'OH!


[/homer simpson]

I seem to have forgotten the much-needed "fender" in there. 

[action=Drew]even plays a small tube combo that can provide that kind of gain [/action]


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## zimbloth (Mar 14, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> I would. It usually says "Mesa" on the front of it.



I totally agree. The Mesa F-30 or Studio .22+ have a more than enough gain and tone to crush any 300w solid-state.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Mar 15, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> I totally agree. The Mesa F-30 or Studio .22+ have a more than enough gain and tone to crush any 300w solid-state.



Somehow I highly doubt it. Im not into the grainy mesa distortion. Though they tend to clean up well in the studio. Honestly my 300 watt SS is about as loud as 120 watt tube amp, However it drives my 2x15 cab alot more solidly with less mudd then the tube amps ive tried with it. SS amps tend to need more watt headroom to sound good. With a tube amp its different. You usually have to turn it up ear-bleedingly loud to get optimum sound. The only tube amps I found that had a good comparison to the warhead were the triple x and the uberschall.

I know zimbloth will disagree till I get an amp with lightbulbs in it but im not arguing. I love amps from both sides.


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## Drew (Mar 15, 2006)

Um, the only mesa I've played that could be REMOTELY described as grainy is the Recto series... the F's are more Mark-IV in lineage, as I understand, and those things are anything BUT grainy, to the point where I could see people thinking they didn't have enough edge. 

And my Nomad sounds just fine at low volumes. 

(and while you may "love amps from both sides," you're also definitely phrasing your comment to get under the skin of guys who like tube amps, and context speaks _way_ louder than words...)


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## zimbloth (Mar 15, 2006)

Yeah I agree Drew. Many of the non Recto Mesas such as the Caliber series, F, Nomad, etc are second to none... not grainy at all. It's evident you haven't played one of those cranked before. Those are some tight, crisp, warm and huge sounding amps.

As for the F-30 not having enough edge, I can't agree there. I think it sounds perfect, even with the stock tubes it gave an incredible crunch and bite. Massive tone, and LOUD! 30 Mesa watts really seems like 50-100 from most other brands.


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## shredfreak (Mar 15, 2006)

i got a crate gt head (120 watts) and i'm pretty satisfied with the tone, all i use is a bad monkey od to boost the solo's a little. For the heavy metal band i'm in it's a marshall TSL. Don't like that one half as much though but it gets the job done.


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## Drew (Mar 15, 2006)

I'm pretty sure my Nomad-45 is louder than my old TSL-100. Aside from that, well, "enough edge" is subjective. I like my nomad because it's NOT as edgy as a Marshall. Some might disagree, but, well, as there's a ton of different amps out there, that's their right.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Mar 15, 2006)

Drew said:


> Um, the only mesa I've played that could be REMOTELY described as grainy is the Recto series... the F's are more Mark-IV in lineage, as I understand, and those things are anything BUT grainy, to the point where I could see people thinking they didn't have enough edge.
> 
> And my Nomad sounds just fine at low volumes.
> 
> (and while you may "love amps from both sides," you're also definitely phrasing your comment to get under the skin of guys who like tube amps, and context speaks _way_ louder than words...)




hmm Maybe I was 

forgive me 

 Tubes


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## Drew (Mar 16, 2006)

guitarjitsumaster said:


> hmm Maybe I was
> 
> forgive me
> 
> Tubes



 

Ok, now you're just being sarcastic. 

But, in keeping with the spirit, 

 transistors.


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## noodles (Mar 16, 2006)

transistors
 tubes

I plug my guitar into the side of my head, and my black soul radiates pure distortion in every direction.


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## eaeolian (Mar 16, 2006)

noodles said:


> I plug my guitar into the side of my head, and my black soul radiates pure distortion in every direction.



Is that what the smell is, too? I thought it was just last night's Thai food...


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## noodles (Mar 16, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Is that what the smell is, too? I thought it was just last night's Thai food...



How do you think my soul became so black?


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## hirah (Mar 16, 2006)

tubes for live. ss can sound good for recording.


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## Jason (Mar 24, 2006)

hirah said:


> tubes for live. ss can sound good for recording.



i would say the other way around.


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## David (Mar 24, 2006)

.jason. said:


> i would say the other way around.


+1


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## zimbloth (Mar 24, 2006)

.jason. said:


> i would say the other way around.



tubes for recording
tubes for live
ss as a coaster


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## Metal Ken (Mar 25, 2006)

You must use very large drinking glasses ;p


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## Jason (Mar 25, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> tubes for recording
> tubes for live
> ss as a coaster



well if i had to use both i would use tubes for recording and ss for live.


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## Leon (Mar 25, 2006)

tubes for computing, baby!!





"By today's standards for electronic computers the ENIAC was a grotesque monster. Its thirty separate units, plus power supply and forced-air cooling, weighed over thirty tons. Its *19,000 vacuum tubes*, 1,500 relays, and hundreds of thousands of resistors, capacitors, and inductors consumed almost 200 kilowatts of electrical power."
http://ftp.arl.mil/~mike/comphist/eniac-story.html


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## David (Mar 25, 2006)

Leon said:


> tubes for computing, baby!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did a project on that last year.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Mar 25, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> tubes for recording
> tubes for live
> ss as a coaster



Zimbloth's rack "its all tube from power conditioner to multi FX"






Zimbloths amp






Ooooh shiny things



, must have good tone


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## zimbloth (Mar 25, 2006)

lol

great stuff as always man


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## guitarjitsumaster (Mar 25, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> lol
> 
> great stuff as always man



Its all good man, I may come around someday. I was playing around with my friends uberschall yesterday and if I just had the money around I would definately get my own but I'd probably have to donate some organs and rob some banks to get that kind of loot. Untill then my warhead suffices.


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## Cancer (Mar 29, 2006)

Modeller...although I heard this band tonight called "Beneath The Embrace" whose both guitarist used Peavey JSX heads and both sounded AMAZING.

Just a thought:
In a discussion of guitar sound, where Tubes versus Solid State is akin to a disucssion of whether Light is a particle or a Wave.....,

since modellers are Solid State with Tube like tendencies, doesn't that mean that the Modellers Win?

 



Donnie said:


> edit: And let me ad... This argument is still retarded. Play what you play. Who cares. I'm done.




Retarded,...yes
Fun read regardless...yes yes yes


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## David (Mar 29, 2006)

psyphre said:


> Modeller...although I heard this band tonight called "Beneath The Embrace" whose both guitarist used Peavey JSX heads and both sounded AMAZING.


haha,* beyond* the embrace...
http://david.elknise.tk/beyond.JPG

Did you see them with Green Carnation? The guys in beyond the embrace knew how to set their settings... and their new guitarist can totally rip. Green Carnations guy pretty much sucks, and he needs to stop scooping his mids so much.


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## Drew (Mar 29, 2006)

psyphre said:


> Just a thought:
> In a discussion of guitar sound, where Tubes versus Solid State is akin to a disucssion of whether Light is a particle or a Wave.....,
> 
> since modellers are Solid State with Tube like tendencies, doesn't that mean that the Modellers Win?



Interesting.  I disagree (I don't think modelers have "tube-like qualities" any more than a good, organic, responsive solid state amp can have "tube-like qualities"), but that's certainly a fresh way of looking at the question.


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## eaeolian (Mar 29, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> You must use very large drinking glasses ;p



Nothing wrong with that - it seems to work for 7DT.

Wait, that's a different subject. Move along, please...nothing to see here.


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## Leon (Mar 29, 2006)

at the end of the day, tone is subjective. just play what sounds good to you.

and, saying that light is sometimes a particle and sometimes a wave is like saying that green is sometimes blue and sometimes yellow. but, that's my gripe with the general physics community, and not the tube-v-ss community


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## David (Mar 29, 2006)

Leon said:


> and, saying that light is sometimes a particle and sometimes a wave is like saying that green is sometimes blue and sometimes yellow. but, that's my gripe with the general physics community, and not the tube-v-ss community


OH, but it can be! I see blacks as white in my left eye, and whites as pink in it. That really makes it a bitch for me to read because I have to use both eyes to prevent one from becoming weaker, yet the pages are always flickering pink, and the text is always flashing quickly.


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## Dive-Baum (May 12, 2006)

I use an EVH 5150 Head Unit and a Marshall 4x12 cab run in stereo. Great sound. I can play anything through it.


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## Rick (May 17, 2006)

I use a Line 6 HD147.


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## le petit corbeau (May 17, 2006)

I do love tube amps !!!
they are my first choice for stage or practice... but...
...For recording solid states are so easy to use, perfect for putting ideason computer at 5:00AM without disturbing my girlfriend !!!

And how about a TECH21 PSA1.1 preamp (solid state),
a ROCKTRON X-PRESSION in the loop and a VHT50/2/50 power amp (tube)
??? hummmm...


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## abyssalservant (May 25, 2006)

Solid state.
Oh, and Dave Shankle agrees, for the record. . . . by chance, we were talking about amps last lesson.


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## Bregaladar (May 28, 2006)

Valve state?


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## bostjan (May 28, 2006)

Tubes=Tube tone.
SS=SS tone.
Tube tone&#8800;SS tone.

Hybrid tone > * hah!


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## Gouzou (May 29, 2006)

I use tubes for pre-amp ( mesa triaxis ) and solid state power ( randall RRM2-200 ) ....


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## LordOVchaoS (Jun 26, 2006)

le petit corbeau said:


> And how about a TECH21 PSA1.1 preamp (solid state),
> a ROCKTRON X-PRESSION in the loop and a VHT50/2/50 power amp (tube)
> ??? hummmm...



I've heard bad things about PSA-1.1s and tube poweramps. Supposedly it sounds like ass because the preamp already has circutry that emulates powertube breakup and adding real breakup muds things up BAD! Also, I've heard that you need to use either PA speakers or some of those neutral speakers made for modeling since it already emulates playing through a cab as well.


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## hitman (Jun 26, 2006)

this one :


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## Toshiro (Jun 26, 2006)

hitman said:


> this one :


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## JPMDan (Jun 26, 2006)

MESA!!!


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## hitman (Jun 26, 2006)

and this one?




it will be available on september 2006.


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## Blexican (Jul 11, 2006)

I'll take anything I can get for cheap. But if I was just suddenly handed a briefcase filled with $5,000, in unmarked twenties, I'd have to go with a tube amp. I'm thinking a 5150 or maybe a Mesa Triple Rectifier. And Mesa Boogie cabs to accompany, no matter what my decision may be.


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## angryman (Jul 12, 2006)

5150 all the way babay


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## Dylan7620 (Jul 14, 2006)

hitman said:


> and this one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Lankles (Jul 15, 2006)

That Engl looks truly terrifying.


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## ajdath (Jul 17, 2006)

David said:


> I was just wondering what everyone on the forum uses. I use a solid state head (STILL awaiting that damn Flextone), and a Line 6 4x12 cab, along with the POD XT Live... yes... I'm all decked out in Line 6 gear. Give me a t-shirt and a line 6 hat, BAM, I'm like an advertisement. I dunno, I just love the tone of everything that they have, it rocks... I think I preach that a lot on this forum, haha... someone says effects I say POD XT LIVE, someone says amp I say LINE 6.
> 
> 
> shit... I forgot the poll, haha.



before my ENGL POWERBALL i used randall SS to record our new cd i think its not that bad check the samples out 
www.ajdath.net


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## Metal Ken (Aug 5, 2006)

ah, Ajdath is the name of the band.. i though your name was, like, A.J. Dath or soemthing lol. 

After listening to Triangle Of Death:
Holy Fuck, that rules. Reminds me of Aeon \m/


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## dpm (Aug 5, 2006)

David said:


> yet the pages are always flickering pink, and the text is always flashing quickly.


 
Cool! Wave some glowsticks around and you'll have a built in rave


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## Elysian (Aug 5, 2006)

i'll probably wind up buying another Blue Voodoo when i can afford it, retube it with some jj's, it'll scream... get rid of my vamp rack, like keep the vamp for practicing at home, but use the blue voodoo live, was a great live amp. keep my bbe and my rocktron hush IIXC for live use too... well, the bbe i'm not sure if i'd use, but i'd still hold on to it just in case...


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## ajdath (Aug 6, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> ah, Ajdath is the name of the band.. i though your name was, like, A.J. Dath or soemthing lol.
> After listening to Triangle Of Death:
> Holy Fuck, that rules. Reminds me of Aeon \m/


hehe no man my reall name is omar, but thanks for your comments about my band


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## Mark. A (Aug 18, 2006)

Tube, hands down.


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## IrfaanSE801 (Aug 19, 2006)

I actually use em both, I have a Randall RG150 SS head and the MTS head and they are both great for different things.


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## GuitarSlinger (Jul 26, 2007)

I use to be a Tube Only Guy - You know the Type, TUBES = TONE. If it did'nt have tubes - was'nt interested. Well, I still love and use tubes but, I have to say the Carvin SX series got me to start re-thinking that and the Tone Navigator totally changed my mind. The Tone Navigator absolutley rocks with some of the best dynamics and responsiveness I have ever heard or played thru... I still love and use tubes (The Quad-X was my main rig for Years and I have done many O live shows and many sessions with it. The Quad-X is a Tone Monster for sure and It is still in my rack and I still use it to this day ) but, that Tone Navigator is now my main Rig.... They pretty much have nailed 12Ax7 pre-amp tube characteristics. I have a sample of it on my Gear page if ya want to check it out. My first two CD's were recorded with the Quad-X so you can check out those samples as well. ROCK ON!


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## Drew (Jul 26, 2007)

Um, way to bump a year old thread.


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## Guitarholic (Jul 26, 2007)

Tubes, hands down!

But having a Line6 Vetta comes in handy sometimes


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## playstopause (Jul 26, 2007)

Drew said:


> Um, way to bump a year old thread.



The old debate (if there is such a thing) is back!


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## 7 Dying Trees (Jul 26, 2007)

Old debate, but for me still the same answer, got to be those little glowing glass jars


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## Christopher (Jul 26, 2007)

I am enjoying the hell out of using both right now. Solid state with my Axe Fx, tube with my Classic 50/50.


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