# Cynic are no more :(



## welsh_7stinger (Sep 10, 2015)

So, CYNIC Just Announced They Broke Up  - Metal Injection


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## UnattendedGolfcart (Sep 10, 2015)

I never saw them, but I figured I never would, being so young. Cynic is one of those bands that I always just considered legendary and mythical. I love them. I don't doubt that they will all be up to new projects in the future.


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## Blasphemer (Sep 10, 2015)

I was really hoping I'd get to see them again at some point. So much for that...


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## ChubbyEwok (Sep 10, 2015)

This is really upsetting news, never got the chance to see them as well. I wish the best for them and anything they do in the future.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 10, 2015)

They've disbanded before, so we'll see.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Sep 10, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> They've disbanded before, so we'll see.



And cynic has always been more like "Paul and the boys", so if Paul keeps making music, I'm sure I'll be satisfied.


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## ArtDecade (Sep 10, 2015)

Great players... but never enjoyed their music. Just couldn't get into it.


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## bloc (Sep 10, 2015)

Good points raised above. Also, I haven't really like anything they've done sine Traced in Air so I'm not too fazed tbh


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 10, 2015)

bloc said:


> Good points raised above. Also, I haven't really like anything they've done sine Traced in Air so I'm not too fazed tbh



Which is kinda like saying you've never liked any Death post Symbolic.  

They just never put out a lot of music, just three full albums and a couple of EPs that were just re-recordings/experimental stuff for the most part. 

I always looked at Cynic as the Necrophagist of Prog-Rock/Metal. They never put out enough material to really have a bad release. That's not a bad thing, as those three albums aren't bad at all, TiA probably being one of the best releases of this type in the last decade.


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## marcwormjim (Sep 10, 2015)

I bought tickets to two shows last summer, and had to miss both. Now who will be the gayest metal band?


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## Pav (Sep 10, 2015)

Don't tell me I have to change my avatar for the first time ever BECAUSE I WON'T. 

I am a little bummed about not getting to see them live this time around but I think leftyguitarjoe is accurate in that Paul really dictates what happens next. Kinda like a Billy Corgan situation; the Smashing Pumpkins may break up, but when Billy decides he wants to bring it back, it's back.


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## Randy (Sep 10, 2015)

I love Cynic but after the last few things they've released, I think I'd prefer a new Gordian Knot disc.


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## rahul_mukerji (Sep 10, 2015)

Sad news, but yes it will be interesting to see what each of them does individually. And I would not mind a Gordain Knot album as well


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## cip 123 (Sep 10, 2015)

I actually don't think Paul will be the one bringing them back (Though I hope they will in some sense) cause the Facebook post was written by Sean reinart, and saying his relationship with Paul was not as good as its been.

Sad to see them go, never got to see them live


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## Emperor Guillotine (Sep 10, 2015)

The 15 year gap between their debut and their sophomore album kind of predicted this. Plus, the inconsistency with the band.

These guys are legendary. Shame to see them call it quits as a group. Many heavy hearts on here and in the prog-metal/tech-metal scene today.


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## DLG (Sep 10, 2015)

don't agree with the person who said that Cynic is Paul and the boys. 

Focus was very much a band effort. 

All the new dull stuff that's rehashed Aeon Spoke songs? Yeah, that's Paul. 

Saw them twice, once on the first reunion tour when they played the entire Focus and Veil of Maya twice since they had no encore songs, and once on the Trace in Air tour. 

Haven't liked anything they recorded since so I'm ok with this. 

Both Focus and Traced in Air are perfect, timeless albums and Traced in Air is probably the single greatest comeback album of all time in metal.


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## bloc (Sep 10, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Which is kinda like saying you've never liked any Death post Symbolic.
> 
> They just never put out a lot of music, just three full albums and a couple of EPs that were just re-recordings/experimental stuff for the most part.
> 
> I always looked at Cynic as the Necrophagist of Prog-Rock/Metal. They never put out enough material to really have a bad release. That's not a bad thing, as those three albums aren't bad at all, TiA probably being one of the best releases of this type in the last decade.



Haha, The Sound of Perseverance is my least favourite Death album actually.

And come on, Kindly Bent was pretty bad.


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## aesthyrian (Sep 10, 2015)

A real shame. I love all their work, even the newest offerings. Nothing quite like Cynic.


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## Mangle (Sep 10, 2015)

ArtDecade said:


> Great players... but never enjoyed their music. Just couldn't get into it.


+1


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## gunch (Sep 10, 2015)

Exivious will be there to pick up the slack anyways


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 10, 2015)

Paul Masvidal on Cynic Break-Up: "This is All News to Me" - MetalSucks

So... Uh... We're witnessing the beginning of band drama.



> Dear fans and friends, this is all news to me. I just landed from Japan and my inbox was exploding. Sean didn't confer with myself or Malone about Cynic's official breakup or the tour being cancelled. I'm honestly somewhat relieved it's finally over since it's been quite challenging over the years but I'm also trying to figure out how to possibly salvage this tour (with a new drummer) since the damage he's causing by pulling out at this last minute is inconceivable for me at the moment. Please share this message with friends or fans as Sean has taken me off our FB page so I can't access it at the moment. Love to you all. I apologize for the drama...but sometimes life gets messy.



If this is all true, then yeah, Sean's being a prick here.
EDIT:



> P.S. Cynic will continue one way or another.



EDIT:






I'm guessing this was deleted.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Sep 10, 2015)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Paul Masvidal on Cynic Break-Up: "This is All News to Me" - MetalSucks
> 
> So... Uh... We're witnessing the beginning of band drama.
> 
> ...



This is so dumb. Metal drama is supposed to be like when Brent Hinds got wasted tried to fight System of a Down, not this high school teenage girl bull.....


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## Volteau (Sep 10, 2015)

Paul states that Cynic "will continue one way or another". So no, not disbanded.


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## cip 123 (Sep 10, 2015)

I would've thought Sean and Paul would be pretty close friendship wise what with coming out publicly and stuff, but Sean did say they've been friends since kids so he could just be fed up.

That said Paul seems like a pretty chill dude, bit wacky but chill. And Sean seems chill too, no idea whats going on.


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## Blasphemer (Sep 10, 2015)




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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 10, 2015)

Man, they could have bowed down gracefully... instead, we're getting this.



> Instead of playing into the "tit for tat" game of trying to defend any accusations of unscrupulous behavior on my part, with regards to the split of Cynic (Paul and I: Two people, Not three) would be childish. But he's caught in a lie below saying he can't post and I took over the page which is obviously not true. I'll leave it at that. I can't stop Paul from playing CYNIC's music with other musicians, but it won't be CYNIC, merely Paul playing CYNIC songs with hired guns, which as stated he's wanted for a while. This isn't the way I wanted things to work out.
> -Sean


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## wannabguitarist (Sep 10, 2015)

WTF guys. 

While I love this band and their music I kinda feel like Masividal could be hard to work with. Chill as .... (or at least he was when I met him) but all that hippy, alien, love everyone, and fondle your khakras stuff gets really annoying. I dunno if the rest of the band is like that. 



leftyguitarjoe said:


> This is so dumb. Metal drama is supposed to be like when Brent Hinds got wasted tried to fight System of a Down, not this high school teenage girl bull.....



Wait, he tried to fight the whole band? I thought he just tried to fight the bass player with the creepy beard and got knocked the .... out. Whole band is way coller


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## Vhyle (Sep 10, 2015)

This whole ordeal is pretty disheartening. I don't know what to even believe now.

Sean Reinert is one of my biggest drumming inspirations ever. If he really just up and quit without warning, ditching the band mid-tour, I would feel like I lost respect for him. But obviously, with all of this back and forth tripe going on, I don't know what to believe yet. I'm not drawing any conclusions yet. I really hope Sean isn't being a jerk...


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## Static (Sep 10, 2015)

I knew this year lacked a little E-Drama and was expecting one to pop up soon, but i wasn't expecting it to come from Cynic.As much as i would love for the band to go on, i cant imagine Cynic without Paul or Sean.I hope this gets sorted out offline, I don't want all this E-drama to leave a sour aftertaste the next time i listen to Focus or TIA.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 10, 2015)

There's something I'm curious about, and I've seen some people point this out...

Why are the avatars different on the page Sean posted? Sean used to have that avatar, Landon currently has that one, and I've never seen Paul with that avatar. I've never ran a FB page so I got no clue if they should be different or not. If they're not supposed to be different, then someone on the Cynic page is pulling a fast one.


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## MatthewK (Sep 10, 2015)

Traced in Air is a ....ing masterpiece.


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## bhakan (Sep 11, 2015)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's something I'm curious about, and I've seen some people point this out...
> 
> Why are the avatars different on the page Sean posted? Sean used to have that avatar, Landon currently has that one, and I've never seen Paul with that avatar. I've never ran a FB page so I got no clue if they should be different or not. If they're not supposed to be different, then someone on the Cynic page is pulling a fast one.


The avatars should be your current avatar, however, when looking for Paul Masvidal's facebook, all I could find was a Paul Masvidal band page, not his personal account, so that could very well be the profile picture for his personal facebook account.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2015)

bhakan said:


> The avatars should be your current avatar, however, when looking for Paul Masvidal's facebook, all I could find was a Paul Masvidal band page, not his personal account, so that could very well be the profile picture for his personal facebook account.



Nah, his personal FB avatar is a shot of him with his Strandberg. I looked around and couldn't find any other avatar that matched that one.


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## bhakan (Sep 11, 2015)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Nah, his personal FB avatar is a shot of him with his Strandberg. I looked around and couldn't find any other avatar that matched that one.



https://www.facebook.com/paulmasvidal
This one?

If so, while I may be wrong, note that it says "Musician/Band" and you can like the page, where a personal account you would be able to friend request. This is a band page for Paul Masvidal, I think he probably has a personal account that's probably set to be private. That account would be the Admin on the Cynic page.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2015)

I don't know, because it looks like Sean's page, which is also a band page, is also an admin.

Unless he uses a different avatar then, then I dunno again.


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## bhakan (Sep 11, 2015)

But again, Sean's Admin page has a different profile picture then his band page. I can confirm from my band's facebook page that when I view that same screen of admin's, it shows all of our current fb profile pictures. It makes sense that both Sean and Paul have personal facebook profiles which are private and then use band pages of themselves to act as their media presence on facebook.

Just as further evidence, look at Misha's facebook https://www.facebook.com/misha.mansoor

You can add him as a friend and the address is formatted "facebook.com/firstname.lastname", his is a personal account. Pauls is "facebook.com/bandname" (no "." to separate the first and last name) and can't be added as a friend. This a band page, which also has an admin(s). The admin for this account would be the personal account, which is probably kept private to keep fans out of his personal business.

TL;DR: I don't think there's anything suspect about that post Sean made.


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## Fraz666 (Sep 11, 2015)

sad.
They will make new music but I would liked to see one another Cynic show with Cynic music.

speaking about other projects, I loved the first Aghora with Malone and Reinert


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## drmosh (Sep 11, 2015)

Sucks they are fighting over this. I have (had?) a ticket to see them in about a month too


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## DLG (Sep 11, 2015)

reinart probably was sick of paul turning cynic into aeon spoke.


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## OmegaSlayer (Sep 11, 2015)

That magic moment when you think adults behave as adults...


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## DLG (Sep 11, 2015)




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## Sunyata (Sep 11, 2015)




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## Mwoit (Sep 11, 2015)

I'm not hugely into their current material, so this doesn't make me too sad.

What does make me sad is this childish bickering.


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## RagtimeDandy (Sep 11, 2015)

I've always respected them as fantastic musicians and songwriters, but their music always had this "meh" factor that made me lose interest very fast. Which sucks cause Paul is a badass guitar player... I can't say I'm shocked though. They take a giant break, come back with a decent album that is likely overhyped due to the break, and then churn out average music with a unique twist.


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## canuck brian (Sep 11, 2015)

marcwormjim said:


> I bought tickets to two shows last summer, and had to miss both. Now who will be the gayest metal band?



Gorgoroth.

After the last album, which just sounds like old Portal stuff, I completely lost interest in this band. I kept hoping they'd re-inject some heavier aspect of their previous music that made me love this band. I got to see them during the Focus tour with CC and again recently - older tracks sounded outstanding and a lot of the newer stuff made me go see if i could get another beer.

Did Sean wait until Paul was in the air before announcing Cynic was done and blocking Paul from the page?


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## asher (Sep 11, 2015)

DLG said:


>



For the unenlightened, can someone explain?


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## canuck brian (Sep 11, 2015)

asher said:


> For the unenlightened, can someone explain?



Tymon is one of the previous guitar players for Cynic who quit from what I remember to be less than happy circumstances. Masvidal was in Death at one point and the song is pretty much directed at him.


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## OmegaSlayer (Sep 11, 2015)

Gayest band would be Godseed as Gaahl switched band


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## canuck brian (Sep 11, 2015)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Gayest band would be Godseed as Gaahl switched band



whoops!


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## DLG (Sep 11, 2015)

nah


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## asher (Sep 11, 2015)

canuck brian said:


> Tymon is one of the previous guitar players for Cynic who quit from what I remember to be less than happy circumstances. Masvidal was in Death at one point and the song is pretty much directed at him.



Didn't know Tymon's departure wasn't great. Also I haven't ever heard the song, so I guess that's where the relevance is 

thanks brian.


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## CaptainD00M (Sep 11, 2015)

DLG said:


>



Especially with this line:
'Lies feed your judgement of others, Behold how the blind lead each other'

Situations like this make me get a little philosophical  about social media. Its great because the bands and music are that much closer and you get it much quicker.

But this  kinda makes me feel like there is just more space for people to air dirty laundry. So much for the new agey peace, love 
and mung beans


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## canuck brian (Sep 11, 2015)

CaptainD00M said:


> Especially with this line:
> 'Lies feed your judgement of others, Behold how the blind lead each other'
> 
> Situations like this make me get a little philosophical  about social media. Its great because the bands and music are that much closer and you get it much quicker.
> ...



I always thought the "you know so much about nothing at all" related to Paul pretty well. Also, when Chuck Schuldiner writes angry lyrics about you, I question the type of person you are.


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## CaptainD00M (Sep 11, 2015)

canuck brian said:


> I always thought the "you know so much about nothing at all" related to Paul pretty well.



Well I always laughed at:
'So you preach about how I'm supposed to be, yet you don't you know your own
Sexuality'

Then last year he came out and I was like  this isn't new. I mean the whole song is pretty much a dig at him.


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## brector (Sep 11, 2015)

asher said:


> Didn't know Tymon's departure wasn't great. Also I haven't ever heard the song, so I guess that's where the relevance is
> 
> thanks brian.



And don't forget Robin as well

-Brian


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## Static (Sep 11, 2015)

Philosopher's lyrics were directed at Paul? I always thought Paul and Sean were committed to Cynic so they couldn't continue on with Death. I didn't know they ended on a bad note with Chuck.


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## efx1138 (Sep 11, 2015)

I have never seen any mention that they left death on a bad note, quite the opposite as I have read that chuck was supportive of cynic.
I also don't think the song is about him and I don't recall that people used to think it was before paul came out and then it just became something that "fit".

Let's not forget that chuck went through a lot of band members and he didn't have a reputation of being the easiest person to work with.


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## Rizzo (Sep 11, 2015)

Static said:


> Philosopher's lyrics were directed at Paul? I always thought Paul and Sean were committed to Cynic so they couldn't continue on with Death. I didn't know they ended on a bad note with Chuck.


Factually it is the Cynic thing, but on a personal level all biographies point to the lyrics as an explicit attack after their bad relationship. I read one too, supporting that hypothesis.
Connecting the dots, it is pretty clear...


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## canuck brian (Sep 11, 2015)

efx1138 said:


> I have never seen any mention that they left death on a bad note, quite the opposite as I have read that chuck was supportive of cynic.
> I also don't think the song is about him and I don't recall that people used to think it was before paul came out and then it just became something that "fit".
> 
> Let's not forget that chuck went through a lot of band members and he didn't have a reputation of being the easiest person to work with.



They didn't leave Death on a bad note. If they did, doing the DTA tours would have been done in extremely bad taste. 

Chuck was only hard to work with if you didn't realize that it was HIS band. 

Check out more about the song though - it's written for Paul.


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## cip 123 (Sep 11, 2015)

The only one coming off as a d*ick in this is Sean, yet he's the one comparing Cynic to an abusive relationship. This whole thing is just weird, they all seem so chill.


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## CaptainD00M (Sep 11, 2015)

cip 123 said:


> The only one coming off as a d*ick in this is Sean, yet he's the one comparing Cynic to an abusive relationship. This whole thing is just weird, they all seem so chill.



I dunno man, I kinda feel like everyone is coming off badly because they let it get to a point where it was all over the interwebs.

Leave your dirty laundry at home I say.


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## OmegaSlayer (Sep 11, 2015)

DLG said:


> nah



I raise your Halford with Sabaton without pics


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## cip 123 (Sep 11, 2015)

CaptainD00M said:


> I dunno man, I kinda feel like everyone is coming off badly because they let it get to a point where it was all over the interwebs.
> 
> Leave your dirty laundry at home I say.




Well Sean Malone is staying out of it so thats cool.

But Reinart must've waited till Paul was in the air to make the announcement?

I can see if Paul had trouble logging in to his account he could think the worst that Seans taken him off the page.

IMO you raise it with your band and label and all that first before even making an announcement. Sean just up and posted about it. It puts everyone in a bad light just because someones emotions are high.

Btw I'm not taking sides here just what I can see, sucks all round I love cynic.


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## efx1138 (Sep 11, 2015)

canuck brian said:


> They didn't leave Death on a bad note. If they did, doing the DTA tours would have been done in extremely bad taste.
> 
> Chuck was only hard to work with if you didn't realize that it was HIS band.
> 
> Check out more about the song though - it's written for Paul.



Thing is, I'm having a hard time finding any sources that confirm it's about him that isn't just fans like us discussing it on different boards like this.

Has anyone that was actually close or in the band at some point talked about this?


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## CaptainD00M (Sep 11, 2015)

cip 123 said:


> Well Sean Malone is staying out of it so thats cool.
> 
> But Reinart must've waited till Paul was in the air to make the announcement?
> 
> ...



Yeah good point about Malone.

I see what you're saying, but the thing is people generally remember the worst. So I mean I don't think anyone who is in the band who comments is going to come up smelling roses, baring Malone if he just stays quiet.

Even then there may be back lash i.e.: he stayed in Paul's camp blah blah.

But hey the music industry is tough, thats why I got out. Good friend can end up hating each other after a project.

For me Cynic was focus, Traced in Air did nothing for me and I didnt even bother listening to Kindly Bent to Free us. If the comments I saw about it being like Aeon spoke were true then I'm glad I didnt.


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## cip 123 (Sep 11, 2015)

CaptainD00M said:


> Yeah good point about Malone.
> 
> I see what you're saying, but the thing is people generally remember the worst. So I mean I don't think anyone who is in the band who comments is going to come up smelling roses, baring Malone is he just stays quiet.
> 
> ...




Yea its not good for anyone really. I still don't understand why Sean made it so public yet left out details if he's going to do that. Could've spoken to a manager or label and said he's leaving and it would be much less drama. It is a tough industry thats why it's important to try and stay calm which I don't think Sean has done. 

Traced in air was my favourite and Focus is great, the new one I like if I'm in the mood for it,


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## Double A (Sep 11, 2015)

efx1138 said:


> Thing is, I'm having a hard time finding any sources that confirm it's about him that isn't just fans like us discussing it on different boards like this.
> 
> Has anyone that was actually close or in the band at some point talked about this?


Support music, not rumors.


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## efx1138 (Sep 11, 2015)

Double A said:


> Support music, not rumors.



Chucks quote kind of proves my point. It feels like a lot of these ideas about what Chuck wrote about is just that, rumors since he isn't around to talk about them.


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## TerminalFunction (Sep 11, 2015)

Sad to hear they're apparently splitting up (or something) and what they're doing on Facebook is plain weird. 

I caught them in Stockholm in 2009 when they were opening for Opeth (should have been the other way around) and got to talk with Paul afterwards and he signed my copy of Traced in Air. Really nice chap, hanging around in the bar for hours after the show, talking to fans. 

Their latest album didn't really do it for me but I love Traced and Focus was a huge inspiration back in the day when we started up the band.


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## cip 123 (Sep 11, 2015)

Sean Reinert Opens Up About The Status of Cynic | Heavy Blog Is Heavy

I do understand Sean's position being in bands that have someone unwilling to rehearse just irritate me to the point that I want to leave even if they're friends.

Still surprises me I always viewed Paul as being a pretty chill guy. Maybe he is best to do a solo thing.


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## bloc (Sep 11, 2015)

This is a-spicy meatball!


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## pylyo (Sep 11, 2015)

Damn, they were supposed to gig over here in Ljubljana in less than a month...


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## aesthyrian (Sep 11, 2015)

efx1138 said:


> Thing is, I'm having a hard time finding any sources that confirm it's about him that isn't just fans like us discussing it on different boards like this.
> 
> Has anyone that was actually close or in the band at some point talked about this?



Nope, it's on the internet and metal forums so it has to be true, also Chuck is a "god" and can do no wrong.


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## oompa (Sep 11, 2015)

asher said:


> For the unenlightened, can someone explain?



Here is how I think it works:

Tymon, now in Exivious (he also has an account here on 7string so he might pop in to explain it himself if we're lucky) was in Cynic for a while after their comeback. He plays guitar on TiA. Apparently as he hints, him and Robin both left after TiA, perhaps because Paul was difficult to work with for some reason.

Then he links a song called The Philosopher on the Death album "Individual Thought Patterns" saying karma is a bitch.

So some background info first: 

Paul Masvidal and Sean Reinert were in Death, alongside Chuck, back in the early 90's (90-92 or something) especially for the album Human that came before Individual Thought Patterns. On ITP Chuck replaced Paul with Andy Larocque and Sean Reinert with Gene Hoglan. Why I don't know, but here is a clue, albeit far-fetched (so take it as you take any other wild guess from someone on the internet):

Chuck was perhaps tired of Paul and it would make sense that Sean would tag along with Masvidal if he left (they're buddies since childhood).

Now, read the lyrics to the Philosopher, the closing track on ITP, and bear in mind that Masvidal, who has come out now (so has Sean) but maybe hadn't then, is gay, and was perhaps a bit to "spaced out" for Chuck's taste and that might be the reason Chuck ended their work relationship:

Especially the ending part of the lyrics, that go:_

Your mind is not your own
What sounds more mentally
Stimulating is how you make your choice
So you preach about how I'm supposed to be
*Yet you don't you know your own sexuality*

Lies
Feed your judgement of others
Behold
How the blind lead each other

The philosopher
You know so much about nothing at all_

maybe the song is about Paul Masvidal and how Chuck got tired of working with him, Tymon knew all this, Chuck fired Paul, Tymon and Paul in Cynic parted ways possibly for sour reasons and now Sean left Paul = Karma is a bitch.

Some assumptions made to get across the road here but that's what popped into my head when I read it  

I might be completely wrong, mind you lol


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## asher (Sep 11, 2015)

oompa said:


> _stuff_








cheers!

(I should really try to get into Death...)


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## bloc (Sep 11, 2015)

asher said:


> (I should really try to get into Death...)



You mean you've never even TRIED?! Duuuuuuuuude get on that!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2015)

I always thought Paul was this super-chill hippy dude...

But he's one of the few people that pissed off Chuck?

Dude, holy .....


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## Static (Sep 11, 2015)

^ This..


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## wannabguitarist (Sep 11, 2015)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I always thought Paul was this super-chill hippy dude...
> 
> But he's one of the few people that pissed off Chuck?
> 
> Dude, holy .....



I think everyone is looking into the lyrics a bit too much. The lyric about sexuality in The Philosopher may have been about Paul but from what I've understood their relationship was fairly friendly after Death and Chuck encouraged Cynic. Not everything said about Chuck is positive either 

Plus, if that line is truly about Paul then that's an extremely ....ed up thing to write. You don't out people like that


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## Double A (Sep 11, 2015)

wannabguitarist said:


> I think everyone is looking into the lyrics a bit too much. The lyric about sexuality in The Philosopher may have been about Paul but from what I've understood their relationship was fairly friendly after Death and Chuck encouraged Cynic. Not everything said about Chuck is positive either
> 
> Plus, if that line is truly about Paul then that's an extremely ....ed up thing to write. You don't out people like that


I am pretty sure it probably isn't about Paul, tbh. And I am not defending Chuck if it is about Paul but... 1993 was a waaaaaaaaay different time than now. I know it doesn't seem like it. But things have changed an incredible amount since then and a line like that would, and did go unnoticed and I am pretty confident that it would be a line (if about Paul) Chuck would not write today.

Back to the topic...

My thoughts on cynic haven't changed since hearing Focus for the first time. That album changed my life. I haven't listened to it for years but it still has a profound effect on how I listen, and play music. Traced in Air was alright. The EP and Kindly Bent seem to be Paul solo efforts, and no offense to Paul but none of his "solo" efforts were worth listening to. As a songwriter myself it is sometimes hard to understand that you need another point of view involved in the songwriting process to get the most out of your songs. Paul seems to have never learned that lesson.

Hopefully Sean and Sean can find projects more worth their talents at this point.


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## anomynous (Sep 12, 2015)

I don't know if anybody saw the now deleted post from this morning on the Cynic page, but Sean implied Paul screwed over Max Phelps in some way. Kinda curious to know what happened, because it would explain why all of the sudden they went from four piece to three piece live.


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## CaptainD00M (Sep 12, 2015)

OmegaSlayer said:


> I raise your Halford with Sabaton without pics



I take your Hallford, AND your Sabaton and I raise you Manowar!


With pics


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## Vhyle (Sep 12, 2015)

Have you guys listened to the MetalSucks podcast, interviewing Sean Reinert?

#114.75: Exclusive Interview with ex-Cynic Drummer Sean Reinert on Band Split - MetalSucks

It's a really good podcast, and in my opinion it clears the air a bit about what's going on. Sean basically did it out of the necessity of preserving his personal health and sanity, and I can completely understand that. Surrounding yourself with negativity and a toxic work environment isn't good for anyone, especially as you grow older and advance in your career, AND especially since he has been recovering from bad drinking habits, and improving his overall health. He said in the podcast that he has been hitting it hard on eating better and losing weight, trying to better himself.

Should this have been aired in the public? No, I don't think so. That could have been handled better. But the evidence against Paul gives me the general consensus that Paul drove him away with his actions, as well as Tymon and Simon. I can't speak too far on that, obviously, since I don't know any of them personally. Tymon also has confirmed that The Philosopher is definitely about Paul, 100%.

With all that said, I encourage you guys to listen to this podcast. I feel that it helps clear up the situation a bit. He also goes a bit in depth on the business side of Cynic, and how that came to be a bit nasty. Sean may not have handled it completely professionally, but I honestly can't blame him nonetheless.


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## marcwormjim (Sep 12, 2015)

It's more like



Vhyle said:


> Tymon also has fueled the rumor that The Philosopher is definitely about Paul, 100%.



But yeah - The podcast does a great job of sharing Reinert's side of the story. That bit at the end where he entertained the idea that maybe he was the more difficult one to work with gives us a starting point for Masvidal's side of things.

I don't think anyone's denying that Reinert escalated the situation into a public calling-out of Masvidal as a musician, businessman, and serviceman to their fanbase. With that, any chance of the matter being resolved privately with an apology may have gone out the window; as Masvidal may feel that Reinert has put him in a position of having to publicly apologize for the sake of enticing Reinert to honor the remaining tour dates.

The bit about all the career-spanning Cynic footage possibly not seeing the light of day now was a low blow to the fans, though - I wish he wouldn't have mentioned that.


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## isomorphic (Sep 12, 2015)

It's crazy how Paul comes across as this holy, free-spirit enlightened dude but all this evidence contradicts that perception.

Even Tymon, who comes across as another "chill" dude took a shot at him.

Would enjoy hearing stories of Paul being a diva tbh.


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## Vhyle (Sep 13, 2015)

Yeah, I'd really like to see Paul's full size of the story at this point. As like many of you, I was under the impression that he is a person that has reached full inner peace and enlightenment. But maybe that's just his persona to the fans. In a personal work environment, he could be a total douche. Who knows?


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## OmegaSlayer (Sep 13, 2015)

CaptainD00M said:


> I take your Hallford, AND your Sabaton and I raise you Manowar!
> 
> 
> With pics



As things are going, if you put silent pics, you win...if Reineart keeps speaking...no one else can win.
He's putting out such a shameless hysteric drama that is incredible.


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## aesthyrian (Sep 13, 2015)

What the hell is up with these godlike perceptions of both Chuck and Paul?

They are just people with flaws like the rest of us. Why is it that Paul is held to some unreasonable standard just because he meditates or something?


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## Double A (Sep 13, 2015)

IDK about Paul. I never thought very much about him since all of his projects tend to end badly. 

As for Chuck... He is widely known as one of the nicest persons in metal history. Was he a saint? No. But he worked with a ton of people and they all loved him and tell great stories about him and I have honestly never heard a negative story about him.


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## The Omega Cluster (Sep 13, 2015)

It's sad, but I noticed, even as early as on Carbon-Based Anatomy, that Paul wanted the band to be more hippie and less fusion-y. Tymon saying he quit for "creative differences" or something like that, and seeing he made the super awesome, proggy, jazzy Exivious pretty much confirmed my thoughts. Kindly Bent to Free Us only put the last nail on the coffin for me. For me, TiA-era Cynic is the best one, even though Focus is a really close second. It's a shame that such a legendary act must come to an end, but I'm excited to see what projects the Sean's will do, and also where Paul will go musically, on his own.

In the end, I believe that Cynic was doomed and that only good will come out of their breakup. Every member will find or create a project or band they'll be comfortable with, and we will be the ones who, in the end, profit the most out of this because we get to hear new and amazing music, I'm sure.


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## CaptainD00M (Sep 13, 2015)

OmegaSlayer said:


> He's putting out such a shameless hysteric drama that is incredible.



Im so glad someone said this. I know a lot of people like Cynic but this whole thing basically boils down to one of the most bitchy and whiney couple breakups since&#8230; well I don't even know. This one makes my last breakup (which was epicly messy) look like an after school special.

Take that podcast on metalsucks&#8230; it was painful, to the point where I only made it to 10min and was like NOPE.

Edit:
And the whole enlightened-meditation thing. Reality check people, as an academic who studies religions and lived in an eastern monastery on and off for 4 years and has done a lot of meditation himself&#8230; even monks who do that for +/- 4 hrs a day still have personalities, personalities that other people don't always get on with. Just because you meditate a lot doesn't mean you stop being human and don't do things that piss people off on occasion.

OK rant over.


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## OmegaSlayer (Sep 13, 2015)

The Omega Cluster said:


> It's a shame that such a legendary act must come to an end


Things do come to an end.
It's natural.
But in my life I learnt that HOW everything end is more important than the WHEN and WHY.
And mostly, the less people you involve into things (fans included in this case), the better chances there will be to screw things up to uncanny levels.


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## ncfiala (Sep 13, 2015)

That sucks. Traced in Air is one of the greatest albums ever. I don't like their newer stuff as much, but I still like it and I would have liked to see where they went next.


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## Dusty Chalk (Sep 13, 2015)

I has a sad. *Focus* was always the go-to for technical metal. It was the blue print. It was the standard by which others were compared. I'm not saying there wasn't better, but it was the first that was head & shoulders more technical than just about anything else.

This whole social media thing is just retarded, though.


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## beerandbeards (Sep 13, 2015)

Paul Masvidal ! You know so much about nothing at all!


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## ArtDecade (Sep 14, 2015)

This whole thing is a little too *Miley versus Minaj*. Stop being such wankers, boys.


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## RevelGTR (Sep 15, 2015)

Human, Focus, and Traced in Air are three of the best metal albums of all time. Sean and Paul always seemed like an awesome team, its a shame things ended like this. I will say that Kindly Bent to Free Us was... I won't say bad, because it isn't. But I strongly disliked it.


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## wannabguitarist (Sep 15, 2015)

Double A said:


> IDK about Paul. I never thought very much about him since all of his projects tend to end badly.
> 
> As for Chuck... He is widely known as one of the nicest persons in metal history. Was he a saint? No. But he worked with a ton of people and they all loved him and tell great stories about him and I have honestly never heard a negative story about him.



Ex Pestilence Frontman: Chuck Schuldiner 'Wasn't A Sympathetic Man' - Blabbermouth.net



> 'Scream Bloody Gore' is a death metal classic every fan should have. Just like the demos. Killer material. Chuck, however, wasn't a sympathetic man. I got to know him on the U.S. tour and I never liked the guy. Very unpredictable. He canceled shows for no reason. Treated bands, fans and roadies often like ..... In the end his roadies Louie and Walt (where the hell are you now guys??) were sleeping in our van 'coz they couldn't stand his company. That says it all.


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## Nats (Sep 15, 2015)

STOP SAYING ALL THESE PEOPLE I ONCE THOUGHT WERE NICE ARE MEAN!


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## beerandbeards (Sep 15, 2015)

Cynic thread slowly transforming into Death thread. I approve.


"It will take you in, it will spit you out. Behold the flesh and the power it holds"


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## canuck brian (Sep 15, 2015)

wannabguitarist said:


> Ex Pestilence Frontman: Chuck Schuldiner 'Wasn't A Sympathetic Man' - Blabbermouth.net



He's one of the only ones then. I talked to Gene Hoglan for about 10 minutes about Chuck at a Testament show and he couldn't say enough good things about the guy.


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## ArtDecade (Sep 15, 2015)

I trust that Gene was sincere, but its always easier to paint someone that has passed in a more sympathetic light. Martin has no reason to lie about his experiences either and it would be easier for him to say nothing at all than to try and taint Chuck's legacy. The fact that he did drop that bomb in an interview shows that he really, really didn't get along with him.


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## Edika (Sep 15, 2015)

I'll stick to Cynic with only on comment about van Drunen. He didn't like anything after Scream Bloody Gore, with the exception of a few songs from Leprosy? I'm glad he quit Pestilence before Testimony of the Ancients.

Now concerning Cynic, what a social media drama .... storm. It's like I'm watching a lot of reality TV, albeit with only one side mainly doing the talking. Is Masvidal a douche? Is Reinert a victim of psychological abuse? What is Malone's stance on the issue? What does Kruidenier have to say and is the Philosopher song about Masvidal?
Personally I don't give a crap. I've stopped being invested in musicians and bands a lot of years ago. If they produce good records that are peaking my interest then I'd be disappointed if they break up but I'll find something else to listen too as there are myriads of choices. If they however pump out something like "Kindly Bent to Free Us" then I won't mind if they break up before they leave an even sourer taste in my mouth. Even "Carbon Based Anatomy" was mostly bearable.


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## p4vl (Sep 15, 2015)

wannabguitarist said:


> Ex Pestilence Frontman: Chuck Schuldiner 'Wasn't A Sympathetic Man' - Blabbermouth.net



Clearly the many and varying Death lineups were due to *Musical Differences*.

Focus and Unquestionable Presence are the only Prog/Fusion/Death that I can stand. Enslaved and 90's Opeth made albums that could stand up to those bands but they are the poles apart from old Cynic and Atheist. 

Progressive metal seems more impressive when it sounds like the players aren't afraid to put their instruments down and go outside (pre-Focus, Masvidal was known to strap on his guitar first thing in the morning and play while watching his breakfast cook, which seems unhealthy).


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## The Hiryuu (Sep 15, 2015)

ArtDecade said:


> I trust that Gene was sincere, but its always easier to paint someone that has passed in a more sympathetic light. Martin has no reason to lie about his experiences either and it would be easier for him to say nothing at all than to try and taint Chuck's legacy. The fact that he did drop that bomb in an interview shows that he really, really didn't get along with him.



I always got the impression that van Drunen himself was a mega-douche.


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## ArtDecade (Sep 15, 2015)

The Hiryuu said:


> I always got the impression that van Drunen himself was a mega-douche.



He could be one as well. I've never met either one of them, so all we have to go on is the hearsay.


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## Jonathan20022 (Sep 15, 2015)

This is just a whole load of gossip and a group of men at an age where they should be far more mature acting like fools. Honestly pathetic, lost a lot of respect for them.


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## Rosal76 (Sep 15, 2015)

p4vl said:


> Focus and Unquestionable Presence are the only Prog/Fusion/Death that I can stand. Enslaved and 90's Opeth made albums that could stand up to those bands but they are the poles apart from old Cynic and Atheist.



Wow!!! I just purchased Unquestionable presence today at FYE! Went up there to pick up the new Slayer album and was actually looking for Atheist's Piece of time album because Obscura covered that song on their Illegimitation album and I enjoyed it (Piece of time song). Unfortunately, all they had was Unquestionable presence so I just bought that album. Funny enough, I was actually thinking about getting a Cynic album but it was "Kindly bent to free Us" that I was looking at instead of Focus.

Sorry guys, didn't mean to derail the thread but I find it weird that I purchase a 24 year old album and the first post that I read when I get on the forum is the album I just purchased. Heavy metal guys... We have ESP.


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## bloc (Sep 15, 2015)

The Hiryuu said:


> I always got the impression that van Drunen himself was a mega-douche.



Perhaps, but _man_ did he have a voice


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## Static (Sep 18, 2015)

"The remaining members of CYNIC will headline Euroblast on October 3rd as scheduled. "

"It is the only show that was salvageable from Cynics European tour, cancelled without the bands consensus by a single member last week."

So i'm guessing Malone is sticking with Cynic for the tour.I wonder who Sean's replacement is.All this seems so weird.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 18, 2015)

According to Prog-Sphere, if they're trustworthy, it'll be Matt Lynch of Trioscapes.

CYNIC Confirm Appearance at EUROBLAST FESTIVAL - Prog Sphere

EDIT: Yup, Euroblast's facebook confirms it.


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## DLG (Sep 18, 2015)

have they been playing as a three piece since the last album's release?

the focus/TiA songs must sound empty as hell without a second guitar.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 18, 2015)

I think Max Phelps was a live player up until the fiasco.


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## OmegaSlayer (Sep 18, 2015)

Crap is still mounting it seems...


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## KJGaruda (Sep 18, 2015)

It's definitely a grounding experience to see such legendary bands/members with some serious beef like normal ol' people. The theories about The Philosopher lyrics and who they're directed to had me like:






Kind of funny really, I'm sure none of us bat an eye at those stupid grocery store tabloid magazines, but give us some band member drama and we'll bite in some way or another


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## wannabguitarist (Sep 18, 2015)

Doesn't come off as bitter at all


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## Kyo (Sep 18, 2015)

DLG said:


> have they been playing as a three piece since the last album's release?
> 
> the focus/TiA songs must sound empty as hell without a second guitar.



They've used backing tracks extensively for a while, so I'd assume any essential 2nd guitar parts would've been included in them for the trio gigs.




HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think Max Phelps was a live player up until the fiasco.



That was before Malone re-joined the live band.


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## anomynous (Sep 18, 2015)

The US tours last year had both Max & Malone. 



Which means something happened between now and then to make Max Phelps jump ship.


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## tacotiklah (Sep 18, 2015)

Just throwing this out here, but it is entirely possible that those lyrics were written about both Sean and Paul. Check out Sean's quote when he and Paul came out publicly...



Sean Reinert said:


> I knew that, secretly, I wanted to go to those clubs too," Reinert, 42, said. "But back then, my stereotype of how to be gay was wearing dresses and tank tops. I didn't have any masculine, metal role models who were gay.


CYNIC's Paul Masvidal and Sean Reinert Publicly Come Out As Gay - Metal Injection

At any rate, I agree that I'm gonna withhold judgment until I hear what Paul has to say on the matter.


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## Floppystrings (Sep 19, 2015)

I thought it was messed up that Chuck replaced Sean with Gene right before Individual Thought Patterns was recorded.

Sean thought he was going to be on the album, and then NOPE. The lyrics could be more aimed at Sean.


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## Acme (Sep 20, 2015)

Zenki_Kouki said:


> It's definitely a grounding experience to see such legendary bands/members with some serious beef like normal ol' people. The theories about The Philosopher lyrics and who they're directed to had me like:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I totally though those lyrics are about Jon Snow.


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## gorthul (Sep 20, 2015)

The Hiryuu said:


> I always got the impression that van Drunen himself was a mega-douche.



Same here. I was reading an interview back when the new Asphyx album was released and I was thinking that this guy is probably the biggest asshole in the whole scene. I won't trust him anything he says.


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## Tymon (Oct 2, 2015)

I kind of regret I spoke out about this situation on facebook. I left Cynic almost 5 years ago now so it's not really my business anymore. And as with most drama: there are multiple sides to every story. On top of that, it's so easy to misinterpret things being said on the internet.

Anyway, people seem to think something terrible happened and that I hate Paul, but that's not true at all. I'm forever grateful for the opportunity to play and record with my favorite childhood band. And Paul has always been a great and helpful friend to me. When I left Cynic, I did so because I didn't agree with Paul's business ethics and decisions, the musical direction the band was taking and because Paul didn't want to work with Robin anymore.

As someone to work with, Paul can be really, really difficult. In his defense: it's not easy to run a band, I speak from experience because I have that role as well in 2 of my own bands. And yeah, it can be frustrating to notice your band members will never have the same amount of dedication and passion for your band as you do. And you might get into the occasional chalenging situation from time to time. But hey, that's life, what are you going to do about it? You can be a dickhead and make enemies out of everyone you work with, or you can try to be reasonable. Try to see the situation from their perspective and act accordingly.

In my time with Cynic, I've seen Paul make enemies out of 95% of the people who worked for us. Tour managers, general managers, roadies, FOHs, drivers, the musicians in his band, etc. Sean was the only one who always stood by his side, even though they were bitching and fighting all the time when we were on the road. And trust me when I say that Sean is the most laid back dude you will ever meet, besides being a pro musician who takes his craft very seriously.

So yeah, it doesn't sit right with me when I see people defend Paul and talk badly about Sean. That's why I spoke out in Sean's defense.

And I guess that's all I have to say about it. It's really not about proving a point, or making Paul look like the bad guy, or me being bitter about how my Cynic adventure ended. But I can see you guys are curious, reading all the speculation in this thread. So there you go, that's my side of the story.


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## Vhyle (Oct 2, 2015)

Tymon said:


> I kind of regret I spoke out about this situation on facebook. I left Cynic almost 5 years ago now so it's not really my business anymore. And as with most drama: there are multiple sides to every story. On top of that, it's so easy to misinterpret things being said on the internet.
> 
> Anyway, people seem to think something terrible happened and that I hate Paul, but that's not true at all. I'm forever grateful for the opportunity to play and record with my favorite childhood band. And Paul has always been a great and helpful friend to me. When I left Cynic, I did so because I didn't agree with Paul's business ethics and decisions, the musical direction the band was taking and because Paul didn't want to work with Robin anymore.
> 
> ...



Thank you, Tymon. That definitely helps shed some light on the situation.


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## marcwormjim (Oct 3, 2015)

I'm one of many fans who found themselves experiencing the joy from Exivious's albums that we were expecting to get from the rebirthed Cynic. Whether or not fans find themselves falling into favoring one perceived side of this fiasco over the other, we can still agree that Tymon and Pumbaa is awesome.


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## Vhyle (Oct 3, 2015)

Tymon and Pumba?

LOLOL


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 3, 2015)

Vhyle said:


> Tymon and Pumba?
> 
> LOLOL



If only we can have hakuna matata in the Cynic camp.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 4, 2015)

marcwormjim said:


> I'm one of many fans who found themselves experiencing the joy from Exivious's albums that we were expecting to get from the rebirthed Cynic. Whether or not fans find themselves falling into favoring one perceived side of this fiasco over the other, we can still agree that Tymon and Pumbaa is awesome.



Best post in thread.
You've got some good ones, marc.


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## Tymon (Oct 4, 2015)

marcwormjim said:


> I'm one of many fans who found themselves experiencing the joy from Exivious's albums that we were expecting to get from the rebirthed Cynic. Whether or not fans find themselves falling into favoring one perceived side of this fiasco over the other, we can still agree that Tymon and Pumbaa is awesome.



Haha awesome, thanks man


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## isomorphic (Oct 4, 2015)

Tymon said:


> I kind of regret I spoke out about this situation on facebook. I left Cynic almost 5 years ago now so it's not really my business anymore. And as with most drama: there are multiple sides to every story. On top of that, it's so easy to misinterpret things being said on the internet.
> 
> Anyway, people seem to think something terrible happened and that I hate Paul, but that's not true at all. I'm forever grateful for the opportunity to play and record with my favorite childhood band. And Paul has always been a great and helpful friend to me. When I left Cynic, I did so because I didn't agree with Paul's business ethics and decisions, the musical direction the band was taking and because Paul didn't want to work with Robin anymore.
> 
> ...



Please write a tell-all book. I really want to know how much of a pre-madonna Paul was tbh.


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## Flemmigan (Oct 4, 2015)

isomorphic said:


> Please write a tell-all book. I really want to know how much of a pre-madonna Paul was tbh.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prima_donna *


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## piggins411 (Oct 4, 2015)

I'd be willing to bet almost everyone has thought it was spelled like that at some point. I know I did for years


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## NemesisTheory (Oct 4, 2015)

An interesting thing to add to this is that I noticed on Reinert's facebook, Sean posted up Jason Gobel's page. When someone asked if he might work with Jason again, Sean said anything is possible. If those two wind up together again, that would be amazing.


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## anomynous (Oct 7, 2015)

Still wondering which band will be better: Sean Reinert's Cynic or Paul Masvidal's Focus: The Voice of Cynic


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## Mangle (Oct 8, 2015)

Although I've never been a huge fan of this band, I'll be paying attention in the future with the hopes that someone gets to unleash what they've been holding in abeyance to be rewarded for a fastidious nurturing of a truly inspired and spiritually uplifting shred, groove slambang!


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## Veldar (Oct 10, 2015)

^ Sean mentioned footage from the Focus recording and live footage from the new shows on the metalsucks interview.


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## DLG (Feb 24, 2016)

reinart wasn't kidding when he was talking about paul's lack of preparation and performance. 

sounds like about 60 percent of guitars and 80 percent of the vocals are on a backing track here.


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## wankerness (Feb 24, 2016)

DLG said:


> reinart wasn't kidding when he was talking about paul's lack of preparation and performance.
> 
> sounds like about 60 percent of guitars and 80 percent of the vocals are on a backing track here.
> 
> [youtubevid



Wow, this is one catty post. Next maybe we can get some like "Omg, look at how bad his MAKEUP and SHOES are!! NO fashion sense at all!!1" or "DId you hear what Paul said about Khloe?!! OMG!!"


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## Casper777 (Feb 24, 2016)

do we care?!


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## StevenC (Feb 24, 2016)

DLG said:


> reinart wasn't kidding when he was talking about paul's lack of preparation and performance.
> 
> sounds like about 60 percent of guitars and 80 percent of the vocals are on a backing track here.



I'm in the process of watching this, but...

At the best of times Paul was only ever playing 50% of the guitars, and about 80% of his vocals are processed.

So far he's playing all his parts and singing all his vocals. His solos are a bit sloppy, but that's it.


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## GenghisCoyne (Feb 24, 2016)

wankerness said:


> Wow, this is one catty post. Next maybe we can get some like "Omg, look at how bad his MAKEUP and SHOES are!! NO fashion sense at all!!1" or "DId you hear what Paul said about Khloe?!! OMG!!"



commenting on a musician of this this presumed calibers lack of preparedness is hardly "catty". A massive part of cynics appeal is their technical proficiency.


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## putnut77 (Feb 24, 2016)

StevenC said:


> I'm in the process of watching this, but...
> 
> At the best of times Paul was only ever playing 50% of the guitars, and about 80% of his vocals are processed.
> 
> So far he's playing all his parts and singing all his vocals. His solos are a bit sloppy, but that's it.



I mean...there is also 1 person playing guitar in this performance...versus...the 2 there normally is.


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## wankerness (Feb 24, 2016)

GenghisCoyne said:


> commenting on a musician of this this presumed calibers lack of preparedness is hardly "catty". A massive part of cynics appeal is their technical proficiency.



Yeah, I suppose. I guess it was the "LOOKS LIKE THE NASTY QUOTES I READ ON A GOSSIPY ARTICLE ON THE INTERNET WERE ALL TRUE!!" first line that got me. Knee-jerk response here!  I don't think that video sounds good, it just seems like this thread in general is such a snipey gossip-fest, largely thanks to the involvement of the prior musicians in it.  Everyone is taking so much interest in the personal issues that led to the band's break-up and it's polluted all the legit musical interest stuff that could have been here. I doubt I'd have reacted that way to DLG's quote if there hadn't been 5 pages of Perez Hilton. In fact, if I'd paid attention to who made that post I also wouldn't have, he's a very solid poster!


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## cip 123 (Feb 24, 2016)

Personally I thought it was fine. Sean and Sean's playing was both spot on, Pauls was good plus he was in time with the backing track I think thats a testament to both him and the rest of the band to be able to play the songs so tightly to the backing tracks...It requires a good bit of skill from everyone in the band.

I'm disappointed about the growls a little but I don't think Paul has ever done the growls so thats fine.


I was more interested in both Seans playing than Pauls.


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## Thorerges (Feb 24, 2016)

DLG said:


> Both Focus and Traced in Air are perfect, timeless albums and Traced in Air is probably the single greatest comeback album of all time in metal.



Have to second this, traced in air is an incredible record.


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## Veldar (Feb 24, 2016)

I would of loved to hear a stripped down live version of cynic without a backing track.


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## Bucks (Feb 24, 2016)

cip 123 said:


> I'm disappointed about the growls a little but I don't think Paul has ever done the growls so thats fine.



Paul actually did do all the growls pre-focus.
you can here this on the 1991 demo, for instance.
I saw Cynic a few times in the early 90's in Hallandale, Paul did everything - this was before the vocoder


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## Static (Feb 24, 2016)

I thought the performance sounded fine despite the backing tracks, but then came along "Integral".


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## DLG (Feb 25, 2016)

yeah that was just awful. 

if anyone needs further proof that paul is truly a bad singer without the processor, look no further. 

love cynic, saw them a bunch of times, even had that old live VHS that was floating around in the 90s after they broke up, so I know what his voice sounds like when he's singing the vocoder parts. on this performance the processed vocals sound too much like they are on the album.


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## rewihendrix (Feb 25, 2016)

Man, you guys are super picky.

Integral was pretty bad, but that sounds like the vocals weren't mixed in his monitoring headphones or something - even if you're not a good singer, someone who's been a musician his whole life isn't going to sing a quarter tone flat the whole song without attempting to adjust his pitch.


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