# How to get a better phrasing



## tastehbacon (Apr 20, 2015)

This is obviously a very common question, but do you guys have any specific tips besides just practicing? Anything theory related? Personally I have just been grinding away practicing improve against backing tracks but that seems so ineffecient.


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## celticelk (Apr 20, 2015)

Focus on chord tones. Don't start or end phrases on the 1 (meaning both the first beat of the measure and the root of the chord/scale). Breathe.


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## SKoG (Apr 20, 2015)

"Breathe" is a good tip. Think about how a sax or trumpet, or even a vocal lead would go. Hold your tempo back, maybe even slightly behind the beat, and try to "sing" along with what you are playing on guitar. Don't worry too much about singing in-key right away (unless you can, that would be great). For now, it's mainly get your pace and feel of when and how much to play.


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## TelegramSam (Apr 20, 2015)

If what a musician plays is their voice, I've always thought of phrasing as a musician's accent. I'll leave the nitty gritty details and theory expertise to people who can explain it better, but experiment with different ways to play a note, and different ways of accenting it. Try coming up with new ways to play simple patterns. Try sliding to a note instead of picking or hammering on/pulling off, try using whammy scoops here and there. Try trilling a note instead of vibrato. Don't be frightened to try something that sounds odd, if it sounds good in the musical context of what you're playing, it works, I guess.

Just my tuppence


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## noUser01 (Apr 20, 2015)

I wrote a long post in another similar thread, so I'll just copy it into this one. You can visit the original thread if you want to hear the recording I was responding too, but I think it's still going to be useful to you regardless. Hope this helps!

Original thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/re...-solos-my-weak-point-but-how.html#post4315861



ConnorGilks said:


> Nice job man, sounds good! The two things that stuck out to me were your finger tone, and the way the solo develops, but I'll try to give more guidance than just that.
> 
> With your finger tone, you are playing the notes just fine but there's no passion in them, it's quite robotic. The goal is to make each note sound good, and not trying to cover it up with what the notes are or how fast they are played. If someone can't make a single note sound good, then their solo is probably just going to be a bunch of notes that don't sound good. I'd start by looking at your vibrato. It's rather weak and shrill sounding. Try using your wrist and rotating your arm. Plant your finger on a note on the fretboard and rotate your wrist like you're turning a key, rotating in a way that pulls the note down towards the floor. If you're using big arm movement or going along the length of the string you're probably not going to get the sound you want. Your vibrato should be vertical, not horizontal. Don't bend the string up, then back down, then up, then down etc. just let the rotation of your arm do the work for you.
> 
> ...


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## SlinkyStrings (Apr 20, 2015)

This might give you some inspiration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHft4OR7Rus


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## wespaul (Apr 20, 2015)

celticelk said:


> Focus on chord tones. Don't start or end phrases on the 1 (meaning both the first beat of the measure and the root of the chord/scale). Breathe.



This is really good stuff.

I'd also start singing what you are playing on guitar, whether you think you're good at it or not. Scales, arpeggios, melodic lines --start ingraining them into your head. Over time, your phrasing will become much like that of your voice, and you'll start giving consideration to what you're playing like you do when forming sentences in a conversation. This will close the gap between your brain and your fingers, and your melodic ideas and phrasing will flow much more naturally.


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## Solodini (Apr 21, 2015)

celticelk said:


> Focus on chord tones. Don't *ALWAYS* start or end phrases on the 1 (meaning both the first beat of the measure and the root of the chord/scale). Breathe.


 
Edited to my opinion. Nothing wrong with doing so sometimes. Everything in moderation. If every phrase is starting and finishing off the beat or elsewhere in the bar, it'll probably become a bit frustrating to listen to.

Play around with tension. Even the tonic of the key can create tension when it's played with a chord other than I or i. 

Use rests more than you think is appropriate (!) including in the middle of phrases, like commas in writing and their relative pauses in speech. 

Use simple rhythms with small variations, pushes, the odd note extended twice as long as others or half as long, with the following note pushed. 

Pay attention to the direction the pitch of a phrase is moving in. If everythings just 4 ascending notes, that'll get old. For ease of displaying trajectory you could have ABCD, DCBA, ABAG, BAGA, ACB, CAB, BAC, BCA. Draw a line to show the direction of each phrase and you should see what I mean. 

Develop familiarity for the listener. Use sequences like ABD CDF FGB, or copy phrases and change a note to adjust the harmony, like ABD ABE GBD GBC. You can take something like ABD and repeat it and fit it to changing harmony: I'm using slashes as "or", not to denote bass notes.
A B D A | B D A B | D A B D | A B D A
D maj/min | Bmin7/G9 | Bmin/G | D maj/min again

That's just with each note being one beat long. It could be much more interesting with a more characteristic rhythm to the phrase.

Dynamics from note to note, accenting notes and such, is important, too.


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## FRETPICK (Apr 21, 2015)

You wouldn't go far wrong by checking out Buddy Bolden or perhaps....


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## MrPepperoniNipples (Apr 21, 2015)

Study other players phrasing, see how they work the rhythm and progress their leads.


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## Aion (Apr 21, 2015)

Syncopation-based rhythm exercises are really important here because by developing your sense of rhythm in regards to syncopation will allow you to make phrases that are strange and different, but also be very clear and coherent. I talk about my favorite when someone brings up Syncopation for the Modern Drummer here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/mu...iques/286784-timing-counting-rhythm-help.html


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## mongey (Apr 21, 2015)

usually less notes, played less times = better 

as simple as it sounds singing what your playing ala george benson can reallly help 

the fingers can over complicate things if your brain isnt locked into what they are doing and singing along forces you be be locked in


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## FRETPICK (Apr 22, 2015)

Don't know about you but I play guitar for the loud bits, like this guy....


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## InCasinoOut (Apr 22, 2015)

Dude I love Deftones but that adds absolutely nothing to his specific topic. I don't think Stephen Carpenter would even have much input on this topic either...
It would be pretty pointless to come into a Deftones thread posting shred videos right?

Anyway, as someone who struggled with this a lot too, I found a lot of inspiration from good singers. You know how there are some singers out there who have such style that you can tell it's them regardless of lyrics or their actual voice? If you're into transcribing/tabbing, try analyzing how a vocalist's melody fits on top of a chord progression. You'll likely find a lot of chord tones, and where/when they use bigger or smaller intervals around that.


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## FRETPICK (Apr 23, 2015)

Although the metal examples may not seem to have phrases in the traditional sense, one can break it up into sub sections and see that little phrases exist. Stephen Carpenter Style. Since he's made a career out of 'His way of doing things' it would be silly not to scope out this type of mindset in today's modern metal.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 24, 2015)

I see what he's saying. I perceive some riffs to have phrases within them. Its how you internalize and subsequently utilize things that matters most. What it currently appears to be on the surface means very little if you can find meaning in it.

Using bits and pieces of phrases you hear, whether others perceive them as such or not will help you develop your own musical voice by providing you with some form of a mapping between the sounds in your head and your instrument. 

... In my humble opinion...


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## Kwert (Apr 24, 2015)

I'm not sure if you're a fan of jazz, but it would be very worthwhile to listen to lots of legendary horn players and singers, lift their solos and try to analyze what they're doing. You don't have to be a theory whiz, just pay attention to the contours of their lines, their choices of notes over certain harmonies and how they build the entire solo in a macro sense. 

You don't need to copy their licks, but it will definitely help develop your ear in a new way and add new vocabulary to your playing.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 24, 2015)

Listening to horn players is awesome for phrasing. 

Stan Getz, Freddie Hubbard and Lol Coxhill are all awesome with phrasing and VERY different from one another. Oh... And Paul Desmond...


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## octatoan (Apr 24, 2015)

^ Take Fiiiiiiiiiiiiive!


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## InCasinoOut (Apr 25, 2015)

FRETPICK said:


> Although the metal examples may not seem to have phrases in the traditional sense, one can break it up into sub sections and see that little phrases exist. Stephen Carpenter Style.



Uhh... you could do that with a lot of songs. Sure riffs and phrases share elements, but I still don't see the point in looking at and dissecting Stephen Carpenter's rhythm playing as inspiration for lead playing at all. Seems like an ass-backwards way of learning something when you can get farther much faster by paying attention to many other musicians whose playing is much more melodic, because that's far more relevant to the question he posed.


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## celticelk (Apr 26, 2015)

In an attempt to wrench this thread back on-topic....

Try copying your favorite vocalists: not their melodies, but their rhythms.


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## Dutchbooked (Apr 26, 2015)

Stop listening to anyone but Miles Davis for a few months or a year.
It is really hard to play so sparse like Miles.


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## redstone (Apr 26, 2015)

Get better at harmony I guess, learn what scales link your chords.

Experiment faster phrasing with a sequencer instead of the guitar. Huge gain of time.

See how the melodic flow can be used to create rhythmic accents on strategic notes, increasing the intelligibility, and how this and all melodic rules are affected by the number of notes per second. Increasing the tempo decreases the intelligibility and changes the rules, some things become more and less tolerable, phrasing fast and complex lines that remain intelligible requires more experience than imagination, it's a good training for slower lines, too. [SC]https://soundcloud.com/humanseeming/phrasing-accents[/SC]

At last, just a very personal rule.. if it's boring at 4nps, it's not great material.


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## Aion (Apr 26, 2015)

Also, how did I forget this Charlie Parker Omnibook: For C Instruments (Treble Clef): Charlie Parker, Jamey Aebersold, Ken Slone: 0029156904161: Amazon.com: Books

A great way to study the phrasing of a master soloist. I think it can be applied to other styles as well, it's a great guide to playing a solo in general. Maybe you decide it's not right for you, but I really recommend it and think that just about anyone can get something out of it for solo playing if they put their mind to it.


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## InCasinoOut (Apr 27, 2015)

*mod edit: This is your one warning personal attacks will get you banned. Next time report the posts and the mods will take care of it.*


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## tastehbacon (Jul 20, 2015)

Thank you so much for all of your responses, somehow I never got notifications for any of this and lost the thread haha. I think what I took away most from this is to listen to horn players and singers. I have been shredding too much for sure.. I definitely need to follow the less is more approach lol


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## OmegaSlayer (Jul 20, 2015)

Ok, I suck at writing solos, and I always end up jamming them, which is not the best, sometimes you might be lucky, sometimes you place that wrong note that it's a hassle to correct.

Anyway, here's what I do, I jam on the rhythm a bit without thinking too much on scales or chords, just on the feel and find some lick or notes that I like where they are.
Then I proceed to tab them into guitar pro.
Those are the main points of my solo, that's the heart and the bone of it.
Then I look at the chord and start to connect the dots/points...is it a bar played in Lydian mode ok here or not? Does this run work better in triplets or not?
So at the end I mostly write a solo on the PC.
I think it helps a lot since you're not going to use the licks you're confident with and you can analyze note per note what you're going to play.
Then you eventually you go on the guitar and perfect or change some passages here and there, but yeah, it's a composition...for example you're never going to put a sweep in an interesting way if you don't study it beforehand with the chords and your tappings will sound same old Van Halen ripped stuff.
This also helps to pick the places where you do want to go out of scale


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## meteor685 (Jul 20, 2015)

i just copy my favorite players nowadays, nothing worked for me other that that haha..


anyways if you wanna learn about phrasing, just watch and learn from this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdKei-gzEIQ


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