# MotoGP



## Papa Shank (Aug 24, 2008)

I reckon it's 'bout time this sport sub-forum had itself a MotoGP thread, so how about it? Where are you MotoGP fans?

Rossi walking away with it, Stoner down in the dumps and everyone else is all over the place. Bridgestone are pissing all over Michelin and riders contracts being written up for the '09 season and talk of a single tyre and smaller wheel rules.

So how is everyone liking this years racing and what are your thoughts for winter testing and the '09 season?


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## stuh84 (Aug 24, 2008)

I'm liking it so far, I wish Pedrosa was a bit more competitive, he's the kind of racer that on a good day no-one is better, but it takes a while to find them good days.

I'm intrigued as to Toseland, I was watching him in British Supersports about 10 years ago, and he was amazing then, I hope he can get higher in MotoGP. I've also been impressed with Lorenzo, just wish he'd stop falling off the bike and hurting himself 

I think its Rossi's this year, Stoner next year, and hopefully at some point Pedrosa, he seems to be very close to being a true championship contender.


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## Papa Shank (Aug 24, 2008)

What do you think of the possibility that everyone might be running Bridgestones next year? Also...Anthony West out of the Kwak team and Melandri in and an extra satalite bike, probably with Elias at the helm. If they come out with the screamer it won't matter what place they come because everyone will love hearing it go by.



Hayden going to Ducati is probably the best thing that's happened to him all year, can't wait to see how he does in winter testing.


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## DslDwg (Aug 26, 2008)

Rooting for Rossi all the way - Casey showing signs of brilliance again couple of falls though. We need a good American Rider again - miss the days of Lawson, Schwantz and Rainey. Maybe Spies will come in and shake things up?


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## stuh84 (Aug 26, 2008)

DslDwg said:


> Rooting for Rossi all the way - Casey showing signs of brilliance again couple of falls though. We need a good American Rider again - miss the days of Lawson, Schwantz and Rainey. Maybe Spies will come in and shake things up?



Giving up on Hayden already? 

In terms of running Bridgestones, I think it'll be good for levelling the playing field, but it'll make things less exciting as it takes another factor out of the equation for teams to get right and compare with each other. Same as with F1, now its single tyre supplier, they have to have two different tyre compounds just to make the tyres interesting.


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## dpm (Aug 26, 2008)

The races have been generally crap this year, as they were the first couple of seasons of 990. Hopefully there's some good stuff to come as the bikes get refined and the crews and riders work things out. 

Shame about Michelin, but it's also cool to see things shuffled around a bit. Interesting that Honda seem to have really missed the mark with their 800. It's obvious they're interested in Bridgestone since giving Nakano a factory bike for the last race.

It seems the public in the UK and US have a huge problem with Casey. What he's showing is a special kind of unrefined Aussie honestly, and it's really the only way to get anything happening in this country in my experience. Doohan was similar in that way.


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## DaRKoN_ (Aug 26, 2008)

GO STONER!


Sucks that Westy is out of the kwak team, as it seems the kwaka is only just starting to get some stick behind it, he did really well in the last race and hopefully he holds it up for the rest of the year, and gets another ride.


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## dpm (Aug 26, 2008)

Gotta agree, I've always been impressed with West. Fair enough his fitness wasn't great, but I also think Kawasaki have dropped off a bit from last year.


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## Papa Shank (Aug 26, 2008)

dpm said:


> It seems the public in the UK and US have a huge problem with Casey. What he's showing is a special kind of unrefined Aussie honestly, and it's really the only way to get anything happening in this country in my experience. Doohan was similar in that way.



Yeah, a lot of people don't like him. Last year that was probably down to the whole electronic/tyre arguement but this year it seems more that people just don't like to see a guy taking a hissy fit when things go wrong. The last race seemed a bit different, it almost sounded like he'd given up on this year which I was surprised about given his typical determination. I'd prefer to see him fighting tooth and nail so I hope he hasn't decided 2nd is good enough.

All I want to see for next year is Rossi having to fight for the win, Stoner with a strong team mate in Hayden and Kawasaki with a better bike (if not the screamer) and strong team in Hopkins, Melandri and Elias on the satalite bike. If Michelin are still there then I'd like to see the gap bridged between themselves and Bridgestone obviously.


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## dpm (Aug 26, 2008)

I don't think even 1st is good enough in Stoner's eyes


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## msherman (Aug 26, 2008)

IMO, Moto GP losts it`s appeal when they switched to 4-strokes.
It`s just not the same game anymore. It`s all about sales/$$$ now.

I can`t really comment on this season much, as the Speed Channel doesn`t show all the races like they have in the past, so I`ve missed the races at certain tracks that I always look foreward to.

Bring back the YZR`s & RGV`s!

One of my little morsels of joy under restoration.


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## dpm (Aug 26, 2008)

Mike, you haven't missed much this year 

I think if the 4's are allowed to develop without the constant rule changes we'll see better racing. The bikes will get back to needing that special talent to make the difference. I keep reading crap about trying to make them safer though, and that worries me. IMO you can't make motorcycles 'safe' at the same time as making them fucking quick. That extra bit of potential speed will always make them harder to ride at 100%, which is what makes them so attractive to start with. A GP bike by definition requires the riders with the most ability to take the bike to the limit, that fine line between going 1/10th of a second quicker or flying off into orbit. And that's the appeal of it for the fans. We want to see people riding a device that we could barely control, let alone set a decent time on.


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## msherman (Aug 26, 2008)

Thats the problem I see with MotoGP. They keep trying to implement "Formula" rules to keep it close racing for the spectators standpoint, like in the Superstock classes. The factories and teams are now forced to chase a different type of developement then in the past.
Eventually, I see the class going to 600cc`s just like every other series.

The Daytona 200 is prime example of this.

Bring back the days when Riders were Men, and the bikes were scary!


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## Papa Shank (Aug 26, 2008)

Actually isn't the 250cc class moving to ~600cc four stroke to push the costs down? Frankly they may aswell just be running suped up street bikes if it happens.


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## stuh84 (Aug 26, 2008)

This in a sense is whats killed the WSB series. The move up to 990's meant nearly everyone frm WSB defected. I was always a bigger fan of Superbikes, I just found the people in it purer, and grittier racers, but give it another 10 years and I don't see Superbikes as anything other than a support race for others.


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## DslDwg (Aug 26, 2008)

stuh84 said:


> Giving up on Hayden already?
> 
> In terms of running Bridgestones, I think it'll be good for levelling the playing field, but it'll make things less exciting as it takes another factor out of the equation for teams to get right and compare with each other. Same as with F1, now its single tyre supplier, they have to have two different tyre compounds just to make the tyres interesting.



I just don't think Hayden is all that good of a rider. I think he would have had is ass handed to him on a two-stroke non traction/wheelie controlled bike. He may do well if he goes to Ducati because that seems to be a very good bike. Just makes me  as to why Pedrosa can have excellent results on the Honda and run right with Rossi and Stoner while Hayden flounders somewhere around the back. 

Don't know if I like the idea of one tire manufacturer or not. How well has that worked in F1? I haven't been following since they have tried that. 

As much as a like the idea of just making the fastest, craziest, meanest bikes and then letting the riders go at it. I remember when that was a reality probably around 90-91 before the big-bang engines came along. Just about every one of the top riders had been high sided into oblivion and the 500 grid had about 12 people on it - then there was about 4 guys who ever fought for the lead and the other 8 were just fill in. Not sure I want to go back to that? 

Really the evolution of the premier motogp class has brought about a different style of rider more of a 250,125 type rider. Very small guys, super high cornering speeds much less tire sliding. That being said the bikes are as fast as ever - the lap speed are lower than the 500's were capable of - so I think the racing can still potentially be good. Maybe the lack of talented riders is the problem?


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## msherman (Aug 26, 2008)

These were the good old days!
A cool slideshow link below with alot of TZ 750`s, and some famous faces.
1980s Loudon Pictures

Some of you UK guys might recognize the tall, lanky Gent in the backround of the pic where Mark Jones has the towel over his head? 

The one, and only Mick Grant


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## stuh84 (Aug 26, 2008)

DslDwg said:


> Don't know if I like the idea of one tire manufacturer or not. How well has that worked in F1? I haven't been following since they have tried that.



The racing has been closer, but still, due to the aerodynamic homogeneity, it can still be hard to overtake. It depends though, but it tends to be unless you have a speed differential of about 5-10mph, you wont be able to overtake anyone in front of you.

Still, its not bad, I still follow it as I love it, but it could do with a bit more overtaking sometimes...


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## DslDwg (Aug 26, 2008)

1980s? Very early eighty's I think. Fast Freddie was still using training wheels haha. Holy crap who went into the water?


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## msherman (Aug 27, 2008)

The old Loudon course was freakishly dangerous (as you can tell from the pics). The new layout isn`t that much better in terms of safety.

Jimmy Adamo was the one who went into the water. He was an awsome rider, and human being, with alot of grit. 
Jimmy lost his life in a horrific crash at daytona in `93, where his front brakes failed on the Ducati @150mph, hitting a tire barrier head on. He was running a hybrid front brake setup consisting of one carbon rotor, and one cast iron rotor.
The following week, the AMA banned carbon rotors.

RIP Jimmy.


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## angus (Aug 27, 2008)

DslDwg said:


> I just don't think Hayden is all that good of a rider. I think he would have had is ass handed to him on a two-stroke non traction/wheelie controlled bike. He may do well if he goes to Ducati because that seems to be a very good bike. Just makes me  as to why Pedrosa can have excellent results on the Honda and run right with Rossi and Stoner while Hayden flounders somewhere around the back.



The answer is easy- Honda don't give a rat's ass about him. They're a Spanish team, run and sponsored almost entirely by the Spanish. Pedrosa was brought in to huge fanfare in 2006 (similar to Lorenzo this year; both for good reason) and the factory team fell in right behind him. He's a much more ideal figure than Hayden, in an engineering sense- he's 5'2", versus Hayden is somewhere around 5'10" or so. Hayden also weighs 50-60 lbs more. It doesn't matter how good your engineers are, those two riders will need very, very different bikes engineered around them. Pedrosa was younger, smaller, and had a better CV...and was Spanish. Thus, everything was built around him. Hayden is a big rider on a bike made for a jockey-sized dude...it is far, far from optimal.

Hell, the team barely even supported Nicky during his championship run. I'm pretty sure everyone remembers how Honda just sort of blew him off after he was pissed when Rossi snatched the point lead back when Pedrosa crashed out into Nicky (in Portugal?). That pretty much ruined the relationship. He stayed with them, rather than going to Ducati, to try to show that he was behind them, and it didn't work. Now they want Dovi. That's a good choice for sure, but it's 50/50 from Dovi's perspective...he knows he'll get a good bike, but they'll always be team Pedrosa. Similar to Heikki Kovalainen going to McLaren in F1. 

Ducati wanted Hayden two years ago before getting Stoner, so despite them now being all about Casey, he should stand a good chance at getting serious support there. Besides, the engine characteristics are much closer to the kind he likes, so I think he's the best choice for Ducati to take on. Both Capirossi and Melandri were way too smooth of riders to meld well with that kind of bike.

Besides, think of it this way: who really thought Stoner was THAT great before we went to Ducati?



> Don't know if I like the idea of one tire manufacturer or not. How well has that worked in F1? I haven't been following since they have tried that.



Debatable, but given Michelin's problems and that Dorna is wanting to find ways to slow the bikes down, a control tire makes a lot of sense. They keep trying to do it with electronics, different engine packages, etc, all of which decrease top speed but actually increase medium/high speed corner speed. A control tire is a really sensible way to control that, if they must. 

Honestly though, I really wish they'd leave 125/250cc as is, and switch MotoGP back to 500cc 2-stroke. Enough with this formula/stock-based crap...it's supposed to be a prototype series!!


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## Papa Shank (Aug 31, 2008)

Anyone watch todays GP? I have to say I thought it was even more boring than last weeks and I'm starting to get a bit annoyed that Casey is throwing it away, not that I particularly like the guy but because I want to see a fight for the lead.

Good to see Toseland back in the top 10 and appearing a much more refined rider than he was at the beginning of the year and Jorge Lorenzo did a pretty good job considering how unlucky his season has been so far. Kawasaki are nowhere, if I were in control of the team I'd be tempted to start using the underpowered screamer engine just so that I could test it more in race setting (and of course to please everyone with those beautiful exhuast notes).

The thing I keep hearing about the tyres...Bridgestone couldn't supply the entire field even if they wanted to, so it's not like you're going to see an all Bridgestone grid. I don't think I'd really want to see an entire grid with the same tyres, instead I'd prefer to see tyre manufacturers slapped with huge fines if they screw up races like Michelin have, it would motivate them to use their fucking brains and pick the best tyres. Alternatively Dorna could relax the tyre rules but eh, Dorna are more into tightening up than loosening off so I doubt that could happen. Just as I typed this I read that Dani Pedrosa will be on Bridgestones for the rest of the season! I think Stoner might have some serious competition for that second place in the championship...


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## angus (Sep 4, 2008)

It's looking more and more like Bridgestone will eventually take over the grid's tire supply soon (ie, next year potentially), but the interesting thing is what would happen to Tech 3 Yamaha in that instance? They get a lot of money from Michelin.

The fight for the lead at Misano was boring, but the race going on from 4-6 through most of the race was great.

Stoner in the last couple races has been looking like the LCR-Honda-Stoner of 2006.


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