# Scraped binding?



## Serratus (Jun 6, 2015)

Anyone done it before? I'm talking about the faux binding where the body isn't actually bound, it just has a line around the edge that's not stained. I remember trying it years ago with thin pin striping masking tape and a lot of the stain seemed to leech under the tape so it really didn't work very well. But companies like Suhr seem to get a perfect line. So if anyone has done it successfully can you share your technique?
I'm guessing it's just a case of using the right tape, and carefully cleaning up with sandpaper or a blade afterwards?


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## Serratus (Jun 6, 2015)

Like this:


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## vick1000 (Jun 6, 2015)

That's not "faux", that's the edge of the maple top.


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## MoshJosh (Jun 6, 2015)

^^^ still not technically binding, so isn't it considered faux?


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## vick1000 (Jun 6, 2015)

Faux binding is a decal or paint on the top and edge of the guitar body, no one is trying to fool you into thinking that is binding.


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## KnightroExpress (Jun 6, 2015)

That technique is called faux binding. No one is trying to fool anyone, that's just the name for it.


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## spn_phoenix_92 (Jun 6, 2015)

From what I've seen, it's done by masking the line around & then applying sanding sealer to that area, then if any bleeds onto the binding line, it will sand right off.

And yes, it IS called Faux Binding, because it's not true binding 

Here is a video on how to do it


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## btbg (Jun 6, 2015)

vick1000 said:


> That's not "faux", that's the edge of the maple top.



Sorry bro, you're wrong.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 6, 2015)

vick1000 said:


> no one is trying to fool you into thinking that is binding.



Isn't that the point of scraped binding? To imitate the look of a bound guitar?


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## 7JxN7 (Jun 6, 2015)

I have always heard that referred to as faux binding or some guys have called it Natural binding in the past too. I'm not to sure which is the more correct as I'm no binding or building expert


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## btbg (Jun 6, 2015)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Isn't that the point of scraped binding? To imitate the look of a bound guitar?



Yep, but if you can't tell its masked well... That's your issue.

I remember reading someone's rant about the natural binding on the Ibanez Premium line and someone saying "omfg they does it to make u think its a real maple cap!!!1!11!10" when no one really gave a damn and it was pretty obvious it wasn't.


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## vick1000 (Jun 7, 2015)

It's no fake binding, binding replaces the edge of the wood and is visible on the top and sides. They call it binding for a reason, becasue it binds something. Leavnig the end grain exposed on the top, is just that. Putting some paint or decal in the place of binding is FAKE binding.

What if the top was a hlaf inch thick, would the exposed edge still be "faux" binding then?


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## Serratus (Jun 7, 2015)

Well, Suhr call it scraped binding (hence my thread title) but I have seen it called faux binding too, because it's not real binding. The same is true of using paint or tape to simulate binding; I've seen that called faux binding too. Because all those techniques are ways of giving the look of binding without actually using binding.

But does it really matter what it's called? I think my first post and the picture show pretty clearly what it is I'm talking about?

Still, it is the nature of the internet to get pedantic over irrelevant details!!lol



spn_phoenix_92 said:


> From what I've seen, it's done by masking the line around & then applying sanding sealer to that area, then if any bleeds onto the binding line, it will sand right off.
> 
> And yes, it IS called Faux Binding, because it's not true binding
> 
> Here is a video on how to do it




Thanks, I did watch that video before, although I didn't think his results looked particularly good. It seems to me that taping the two edges separately would make it very hard to get the unstained line the same width all the way around. And I think you could still get the sanding sealer creeping under the tape, the same way that stain/colour might creep under if you masked the actual binding line......
I have seen some people leaving the edge of the body sharp, masking the outer edge when they stain, and then using sandpaper or a blade to clean up the lines, and to round over the edge slightly which also extends the uncoloured line onto the front by a few mm.
But then I've had stain creep under tape before and it can be really hard to sand it away completely without having to sand hard and ending up with a ledge.....
Anyone have any experience with tape that works really well masking wood?
What about if I spray the stain, will masking tape work better with less leeching?
Any experience appreciated


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## vick1000 (Jun 7, 2015)

The best way to do it would be dye the top and let it dry, before you route the edges off.


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## Pikka Bird (Jun 7, 2015)

vick1000 said:


> It's no fake binding, binding replaces the edge of the wood and is visible on the top and sides. They call it binding for a reason, becasue it binds something. Leavnig the end grain exposed on the top, is just that. Putting some paint or decal in the place of binding is FAKE binding.
> 
> What if the top was a hlaf inch thick, would the exposed edge still be "faux" binding then?



It's all semantics. All of the techniques you have mentioned are ways of faking the look of binding. Faux means fake, and 90% of guitar manufacturers refer to such a masked edge as faux binding. It's definitely linguistically legit, and not in Fender's tremolo/vibrato fuckup kind of way.

Faux binding, reveal binding, masked binding, scraped binding, these are all words that are commonly used to describe this flourish and you can't change everyone's mind because it's not the kind of "fake" that _you_ prefer...  



Serratus said:


> Thanks, I did watch that video before, although I didn't think his results looked particularly good.



That Big D guy always gets "close but no cigar" with everything I've seen him do, finish-wise and it kinda pisses me off that he apparently makes a pretty decent buck off it. He buys gorgeous wood for his projects, but makes Telecaster bodies exclusively and does sorta weird stain work where he sands his stained bursts just a little too much in certain areas and makes the whole thing look uneven. He knows the theory but lacks all the finesse.


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## Serratus (Jun 8, 2015)

That does explain how I feel about that vid - it's ok but somehow doesn't look quite right - maybe the line is a bit wide and not completely consistent.....

And I don't like the idea of routing the edge after staining, I think the chances of marking the top with the router would be pretty high. And if the routing took any tiny chips out of the edge of the front, then you'd have to sand and touch in the stain, which would defeat the object. Also, the guitar that I want to do it on is a one-piece body, so I need to stain the back and sides too, so I'd still need to mask the stain on the sides of the body...


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## sehnomatic (Jun 8, 2015)

If you want a perfect, repeatable line with a colored back, the easiest way to do it is to spray it. Seal the entire guitar, mask, spray. There are times when you don't even need to scrape.


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## Renkenstein (Jun 8, 2015)

Serratus...check out my Second Siren build thread for tips on how to mask for this stuff. I used tape and spray shellac. The taping is the longest part of the operation, but other than that it's VERY simple.


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## Serratus (Jun 9, 2015)

Renkenstein said:


> Serratus...check out my Second Siren build thread for tips on how to mask for this stuff. I used tape and spray shellac. The taping is the longest part of the operation, but other than that it's VERY simple.



Hey Renk, thanks for the advice - lovely guitar!
So essentially you're saying that I mask the whole body apart from the faux binding line, then spray that with sanding sealer, then remove all the masking, stain the front and back of the body, then spray my lacquer over all of it? Sounds like it would work well but did you have much bleed of your sealer under the tape? I guess you can just sand that away before staining?


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## Renkenstein (Jun 9, 2015)

Serratus said:


> Hey Renk, thanks for the advice - lovely guitar!
> So essentially you're saying that I mask the whole body apart from the faux binding line, then spray that with sanding sealer, then remove all the masking, stain the front and back of the body, then spray my lacquer over all of it? Sounds like it would work well but did you have much bleed of your sealer under the tape? I guess you can just sand that away before staining?



With this style of binding, it'll take a little more work since you're going to want that ~1/16" edge around the whole top, and I think that's why scraping is the more accepted option.

When I did it, I had that little ~45° mini bevel on the horns, so I was able to mask right up to the edge. There was absolutely no bleed of sealer under the tape. It's too thick for that, I'd suspect. Before I applied dye, I was able to block sand the top to remove any sealer that might have made it through a puckered tape or whatever. Again, I was able to sand up to the edge because of the chamfer's falloff. 

Myself, I'd be either practicing scraping by hand, or making a tool that presents the blade to the top at a set depth so you get a consistent line all around.


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## Taylor (Jun 9, 2015)

Not to derail the thread, but say I wanted to have faux binding and a rounded over edge. Couldn't I just do my dyeing and then run a router over the edges with a round over bit? I know people like to have the guitar basically done before starting the finish process, but this would seem easier in this case.


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## Serratus (Jun 10, 2015)

GraveyardThrone said:


> Not to derail the thread, but say I wanted to have faux binding and a rounded over edge. Couldn't I just do my dyeing and then run a router over the edges with a round over bit? I know people like to have the guitar basically done before starting the finish process, but this would seem easier in this case.



But I think you'd end up with a step - ie, if you take enough wood away to get rid of the stain then that bit would step down slightly from the stained bit, and if you had to sand that away then you wouldn't be left with a clean line. It would also be very easy to mark the stained part on the front or the sides, and then that would need sanding and re-staining too...


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## Taylor (Jun 10, 2015)

I see what you mean. I think the procrastinator in me just wants to do things in as few steps as possible.


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## DandHcostoms (Jun 10, 2015)

If you're using water based dyes let the top dry for 45 mins and then scrape the edge and you'll get a clean line.


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## Serratus (Jun 10, 2015)

DandHcostoms said:


> If you're using water based dyes let the top dry for 45 mins and then scrape the edge and you'll get a clean line.



Does it not sink into the wood very much then? I would've thought it'd be hard to scrape it all away without going into the wood, but does water based dye sit more on the surface of the wood?


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## DandHcostoms (Jun 10, 2015)

Serratus said:


> Does it not sink into the wood very much then? I would've thought it'd be hard to scrape it all away without going into the wood, but does water based dye sit more on the surface of the wood?



Im not sure an the exact science behind it but thats what has worked for me. Im guessing the 45 minutes is enough time to let just the top dry before it penetrates too deep in the the wood surface.


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## Renkenstein (Jun 10, 2015)

DandHcostoms said:


> If you're using water based dyes let the top dry for 45 mins and then scrape the edge and you'll get a clean line.



That's a good idea. The dye definitely soaks in, but only the deepest will remain, and that little bit of dye will then act as a figure enhancement.

I'm adding that to my notes.


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