# Piracy sucks.



## Rick (May 9, 2007)

Warner Bros. cancels Canada previews - Yahoo! News

Doesn't affect me, obviously. It just sucks for Canadians who don't do this kind of shit.


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## Scott (May 9, 2007)

> Film writer Brian Johnson doubted the general public would even notice Warner Bros.' protest.
> 
> "I think it's a thin slice of the population who actually goes to those preview screenings," he said.





Not that I agree with pirating movies, but I don't think they thought this one through too well.


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## Chris (May 9, 2007)

Because only Canadians pirate stuff.


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## Rick (May 9, 2007)

Chris said:


> Because only Canadians pirate stuff.



Well, of course. Pirates in the US, beware!!!!


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## BigM555 (May 9, 2007)

I stopped going to the movie theaters when they morphed the experience into one that resembles processing cattle at a Chicago stockyard.


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## JJ Rodriguez (May 9, 2007)

Yarr! This be bullshit me says. Oh well, back to swabbin' the poop deck.


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## Drew (May 9, 2007)

Chris said:


> Because only Canadians pirate stuff.





> It is currently not a criminal offense in Canada to make recordings of movies in theaters for personal use. In order to prosecute a pirate, there must be proof that the copy of the film is being made for commercial purposes.
> 
> "Canada does have the highest camcording rate (by individuals in theaters) of any other territory," Antonellis said Tuesday by phone from Los Angeles.
> 
> ...



Actually, it looks like they do.


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## JJ Rodriguez (May 9, 2007)

We like movies


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## 7 Strings of Hate (May 9, 2007)

those damn movie recording crime syndicates  yea thats right, i'm in a gang, i'm the toughest dude on the block, yea, i camcordered 3 movies last night dawg


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## Scott (May 9, 2007)

Im thinking of turning this into a career of my own.

Then when people ask me what I do for a living, I can tell them i'm a pirate


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## Mastodon (May 9, 2007)

What kind of? I'm pretty sure most of the pirate copies don't come from those advanced screenings anyway.


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## Rev2010 (May 9, 2007)

If the movie studios were smart they'd stop trying to fight piracy with brute force and start using their brains to try to circumvent it by making it more preferential to see a movie legally rather than pirated. Like, when movies first come out in theaters why not have an internet service, like iTunes, where people can PAY to download the shit and watch it AT HOME! A $20 fee, for example, isn't unreasonable. I took an hour long trip into the city to see Spider-man 3 in what is normally one of the most awesome, comfortable, and relatively "unpacked" theaters in Manhattan. My wife and I got there just before 10pm. There was a show every 30 minutes and they were sold out to 1:25am! That's seven freaking showings sold out! So we turned around an went home. And yeah, I saw it the next day over the net (mediocre quality bootleg). If it were available for pay download I would've gladly paid for it. I usually buy the DVD's anyway so I always wind up paying my dues but it's nuts that they haven't done this already. Not everyone wants to trek out to a theater full of animals acting like asses, talking on their cell phones, and getting rowdy. Then, to find the movie sold out for hours. On top of that the 5 cent bag of popcorn costs a whopping $4.50 and that 10 cent cup of soda is $3.00!

If the industry would get with the program they'd survive and continue to thrive very well. But their current ways of trying to address the problem seem to have them sinking faster and faster.



Rev.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (May 9, 2007)

i;m sure if you download it to your computer someone could make a copie or just camcorder the copy playin on your computer, but i agree, instead of trying to beat the pirates with force, perhapse they should try to outsmart, but people will always find a way


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## Rev2010 (May 9, 2007)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> i;m sure if you download it to your computer someone could make a copie or just camcorder the copy playin on your computer, but i agree, instead of trying to beat the pirates with force, perhapse they should try to outsmart, but people will always find a way



Well, iTunes' copy protection scheme works perfectly (as far as I know at least). Sure you could camcorder it but that's my whole point... why not make it easy enough for people to see the perfect quality "original" copy at a great price that will make people shy away from sitting through a crappy ass camcordered bootleg? Look at how well iTunes, Rhapsody, Napster, etc are doing selling $10 albums or $.99 cent songs. Even TV episodes! I've paid for an episode here or there of a program I've missed such as Battlestar or Heroes rather than watch a crappy poorly encoded version streamed over the net. I mean for only $1.99 why bother with crap? People are buying the shit and the sales data shows. Now they finally have movies up too but they need to move new releases right to the net. And with enough thought an even better, more effecient and protected, scheme of doing all this could be thought up.



Rev.


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## thedownside (May 9, 2007)

Rev2010 said:


> Well, iTunes' copy protection scheme works perfectly (as far as I know at least). Sure you could camcorder it but that's my whole point... why not make it easy enough for people to see the perfect quality "original" copy at a great price that will make people shy away from sitting through a crappy ass camcordered bootleg? Look at how well iTunes, Rhapsody, Napster, etc are doing selling $10 albums or $.99 cent songs. Even TV episodes! I've paid for an episode here or there of a program I've missed such as Battlestar or Heroes rather than watch a crappy poorly encoded version streamed over the net. I mean for only $1.99 why bother with crap? People are buying the shit and the sales data shows. Now they finally have movies up too but they need to move new releases right to the net. And with enough thought an even better, more effecient and protected, scheme of doing all this could be thought up.



i've easily cracked itunes copy protection for music, and not much more work to do video, and thats just to remove the protection, even if you just wanted a copy, you can easily stream out from one computer to another (via s-video etc...) and make a new copy of it. every protection that has ever come out has been cracked in a matter of days typically. Even if they could come up with a way that is impossible to share (which will never happen, there countless more people out there cracking it compared to those creating it) they still could not easily to it with the liscensing and distribution deals they have with the theatre chains.

that being said, i totally understand where you are coming from, i download allot of tv ( there are a few reasons that i will not deal with the local cable company) and would easily pay for it online (although they would be better off distributing it via streams with built in commercials).


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## Durero (May 9, 2007)

Drew said:


> Actually, it looks like they do.


Sounds like movie studio propaganda...

http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/02/05/166216.shtml?tid=97



/. said:


> Michael Geist's weekly column dismantles recent claims that Canada is the world's leading movie piracy haven. The article uses the industry's own data to demonstrate that the assertions about movie bootlegging and its economic impact are greatly exaggerated and that the MPAA's arguments about Canadian copyright law are misleading. I particularly liked how Geist dug up the fact that the MPAA itself says that there have only been 179 movies recorded with a camcorder over the past three years out of the 1,400 that the Hollywood studios released.




Personally I'd be quite content if the major studios withdrew all their stuff from our country, not just the previews


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## Rev2010 (May 10, 2007)

thedownside said:


> i've easily cracked itunes copy protection for music, and not much more work to do video, and thats just to remove the protection, even if you just wanted a copy, you can easily stream out from one computer to another (via s-video etc...) and make a new copy of it. every protection that has ever come out has been cracked in a matter of days typically.



Oh I know. I'm just saying most of the public that aren't computer savvy don't know anything about how to do this and so for them it's far easier and more convenient to simply use something like iTunes or any other service to get content than it is to go online or use peer to peer software to locate content - content of good quality. Personally I think all the DRM bullshit needs to go away. I won't buy music through iTunes, shows I will but not music. Like you said, everything is crackable and will get out there.



Rev.


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## thedownside (May 10, 2007)

Rev2010 said:


> Oh I know. I'm just saying most of the public that aren't computer savvy don't know anything about how to do this and so for them it's far easier and more convenient to simply use something like iTunes or any other service to get content than it is to go online or use peer to peer software to locate content - content of good quality.



but see the problem isnt that most people cant do it, it's that people that currently are releasing cams, tv rips, etc... can, so they would then have better access to more stuff


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## Rev2010 (May 10, 2007)

thedownside said:


> but see the problem isnt that most people cant do it, it's that people that currently are releasing cams, tv rips, etc... can, so they would then have better access to more stuff



I think you've missed the point of my posts. For one, most bootlegs are quite crappy in quality. Even if they got a good capture originally they usually ruin in by encoding it with a low data rate which makes it look like crap, especially during action scenes with lots of motion, or they encode it with improper brightness/contrast etc settings. If it looks like crap why bother watching it if you could pay a reasonable fee to see an original professionally encoded high data rate copy? And again, like I said, the average Joe still has to go searching for the material on the net, or from a bootlegger. There's more work involved and the end product is of a lower quality. If the movie studios released their new releases on the net at reasonable prices trust me... people would be dissuaded more than ever from buying crappy bootleg DVD's off the street or watching crappy low res versions over the net.




Rev.


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## thedownside (May 10, 2007)

Rev2010 said:


> I think you've missed the point of my posts. For one, most bootlegs are quite crappy in quality. Even if they got a good capture originally they usually ruin in by encoding it with a low data rate which makes it look like crap, especially during action scenes with lots of motion, or they encode it with improper brightness/contrast etc settings. If it looks like crap why bother watching it if you could pay a reasonable fee to see an original professionally encoded high data rate copy? And again, like I said, the average Joe still has to go searching for the material on the net, or from a bootlegger. There's more work involved and the end product is of a lower quality. If the movie studios released their new releases on the net at reasonable prices trust me... people would be dissuaded more than ever from buying crappy bootleg DVD's off the street or watching crappy low res versions over the net.



I understand what you are sayign and totally agree... the problem is the studio's and those in charge dont look at it that way. they look at it from the point of view that bootlegger's would then be able to easily get there hands on a really good copy. and i want dvd rips all the time that look awesome


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## Drew (May 10, 2007)

I don't think that'd work, Rev (what the fuck IS your real name, anyway? I feel like a tool calling you "Rev."). Couple reasons. 

1.) For one, it's a different model. What you're proposing would be akin to offering CD's for sale months in advance over Itunes while the single is just being played over the radio, and then selling them in stores only six months after they were "legally available" over Itunes. This is complicated by the fact that, unlike music radio, you have to pay to go to the movies whereas turning on the radio is free. 

I like where your head's at, but what you're proposing is effectively the end of the movie distribution industry as we know it, and that will never fly. 

2.) Actually, Itunes copy protection is pretty easy to circumvent, and the people most likely to be able to do so (basically, anyone who's even remotely computer savvy) are the people most likely to take advantage of internet distribution. All this would do would increase the quality of the bootlegs available on the market. 

As for your story about going to a theater in downtown Manhattan and having Spider-Man 3 sold out for three hours, come on man. You're in the largest city in America, where if I recall the movie is set, and you're trying to see one of the summer's largest blockbusters like the week it was released. Do what everyone else does - advance internet ticket sales if seeing it the first week is important, or just go two weeks after it was released. Plan ahead.


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## Rev2010 (May 10, 2007)

Drew said:


> what the fuck IS your real name, anyway? I feel like a tool calling you "Rev."). Couple reasons.



So sorry to hear you feel like a tool calling someone by their internet handle. My name is Peter since it's so important  



Drew said:


> For one, it's a different model. What you're proposing would be akin to offering CD's for sale months in advance over Itunes while the single is just being played over the radio, and then selling them in stores only six months after they were "legally available" over Itunes.



Not at all, it's nothing like that. Selling a download and a hard copy CD/DVD are two different things. And a lot of people would still go to the movies regardless. There are very many that won't settle for less than the huge theater screen. But movies aren't released at the same date all over the world, the release dates differ sometimes dramatically. Offering the movie as a pay for download would enable the people in those states/countries that have to wait to see them at the same time as everyone else rather than get itchy and watch an internet bootleg.



Drew said:


> This is complicated by the fact that, unlike music radio, you have to pay to go to the movies whereas turning on the radio is free.



I don't get the relevance of this statement as I'm talking about "paid" downloads. Where does "free" come into this? Internet bootlegs are free and that's lost money for the studio. If they offered paid downloads or streams they'd recoupe a lot of that lost cash.



Drew said:


> I like where your head's at, but what you're proposing is effectively the end of the movie distribution industry as we know it, and that will never fly.



Never???? Tell me you honestly believe that. If you think things will stay this very same way with movie distribution till the end of time you need to rethink things. With the internet quickly rising to the forefront of media formats and large format high definition TV screens becoming common in the home we will be seeing loads of change.



Drew said:


> As for your story about going to a theater in downtown Manhattan and having Spider-Man 3 sold out for three hours, come on man. You're in the largest city in America



Largest by population but not by size. Mahattan is tiny actually. But I get your point. I don't go to many other theaters here in NYC since they're run very poorly. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a ticket, walked into the theater, and there were no seats available... and there were people *sitting on the floors*. So either they tend to oversell tickets or people are sneaking in. Either way, it's complete aggrevation so I stopped going to a number of the downtown theaters. But yeah, I know there are options like buying tickets on the net and shit. I didn't think that theater (which really is off the beaten road and out of sight) would be so booked with a show every half hour. Even with that inconvenience you still have the $6.00 popcorn and $5.00 soda charges. It's ridiculously overpriced. Then there's the people you half to deal with making a riot throught the movie. I still think it would be awesome to see a new movie at home.

Let's not forget something here... I talked about thinking of a "way" to circumvent piracy by *making it more preferential to pay than not to*. My iTunes comment was just a quick example. I'm not saying that is the "perfect" solution. What my point was is the industry can sit and think and come up with something ingenious that works.



Rev. (oh, sorry Drew - Peter )


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## Drew (May 10, 2007)

It just bugs me, that's all dude. I'm strange like that.  

It's just, what you're suggesting is a TOTAL change in distribution model. Currently, movies are released to a theater audience. They play in theaters for 3 or 4 months, maybe more if they're sucessful, sometimes a brief run in 2nd release theaters, and then they're sold on home video/DVD or through rentals. The idea is, if you want to see a movie when it comes out, you go to a theater. If you don't want to go to a theater, then you wait for six months and rent it or buy it. 

It's tough to draw an analogy for this in the music world. By it's very nature, a movie is a social/crowd phenomina. When it comes out, the medium is a giant screen in a darkened auditorium to a live audience. It's more like going to a concert than buying a CD, while buying the DVD when it's released is like buying a live DVD after the tour or something. 

I'm not saying it's not an interesting idea or anything, but let's face it - what you're suggesting would be a complete reversal of an 80-year-old industry, and would render a multimillion-dollar infastructure irrelevant. The theater industry would never go for it, which means it won't happen. I think it could definitely happen, especially as broadband speeds improve, as an alternative to buying or renting a DVD, but as an alternative to going to a movie?

I agree that something needs to be done, but as to what...


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (May 10, 2007)

Chris said:


> Because only Canadians pirate stuff.


70% of piracy business is done here in Canada, because our laws are weak in comparison to other countries especially the United States. Montreal is the piracy capital of the world literaly...

Here it is only illegal to bring a camera into a theatre if you have commercial/financial gain from it i.e making copies and selling for a profit. The dumbest thing is you need to prove that those are the culprit's intentions when they caught with a camera, and how the hell are you supose to do that? It's a very redundant law in my opinion and it's completely idiotic.


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## thedownside (May 10, 2007)

i can see where you are both coming from, simple facts are: 1, you cant make it in such a way we can't hack/rip it quickly and easily... and 2, the movie industry survives by it's deals with the theatre franchises. there are rules they have to play by, and the includes release first in the theatres, and then dvd/streams, rental, ppv, etc... they will come up with a way to make them available via itunes or some other method, but it still wont be till a couple of months minimum after the theatres show it.


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## Rev2010 (May 10, 2007)

Drew said:


> I'm not saying it's not an interesting idea or anything, but let's face it - what you're suggesting would be a complete reversal of an 80-year-old industry, and would render a multimillion-dollar infastructure irrelevant. The theater industry would never go for it, which means it won't happen.



Yes, you're totally right that it is indeed a social/crowd phenomena and that is because of the way movies started out. No one even owned TV sets back in those days so people would have to go to a theater to see a movie. Then, when people had TV sets they were black and white so they still had to go. Then, people had color TV's but they were small and shaped like a fish bowl. Well, all that has changed dramatically and as a result the number of people that say, "Eh, I'll wait for it on DVD" has become immense. Times have changed and the theater has been brought to our homes and is getting even better with time. As a result I think it's inevitable that we'll see a change in the industry's structure and operation.



Rev.


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