# 8 string with high A tuning



## stuglue (Jul 19, 2012)

Hi guys,
I thought I'd share my experiences of having my 8 string tuned with a high A 
I've owned my 8 string for a limited time (nearly 3 weeks) and within the last week I've removed the low F#, moved the remaining 7 down a slot and added a daddario .007
The guitar is tuned a semi tone flat so its tuned to Ab

I have to say I've experienced zero issues with strings breaking or not holding pitch.
I was fearing the worse after reading a lot of problems from other players who were trying to do the same.

The real issue I'm finding is how confusing having a high A is. 
Having two lower strings wasn't a problem as the regular 6 were still situated in the same place, but now with a high A they are sandwiched between the low B and high A. I frequently get the wrong string , its going to take time to get comfortable with the new layout. What's more, going back to a six string is awkward as I'm playing the wrong string. 

Time will tell as they say


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## Brill (Jul 19, 2012)

you're using an Omen-8 correct?

I was putting a .07 on mine and it wouldn't go past G.....


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## stuglue (Jul 19, 2012)

Yes an omen 8. I've had zero problems with tuning it up to Ab
I didn't have to do it in small increments either, I tuned straight too Ab and its maintained its pitch, I've even managed to bend it by a semi tone on a few occasions.
What I'm enjoying about it is the additional positional advantages for chords, scales and arpeggios.


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## nicomortem (Jul 19, 2012)

I always said that if I had an 8, I would tune it B to A, I wonder what the shortest 8 string out there is....the extended length of most 7s and 8s must make that high note hard to reach.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 19, 2012)

^on rusty cooleys fanned fret dean the scale is 25.5-23.5 tuned B-A


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## Winspear (Jul 19, 2012)

Yeah it's just about manageable  Try tuning the high B string up to C. That way it becomes an 8 string tuned up to B as opposed to a 7 with a high A. Moving of the major 3rd interval. I found that simple change whilst making things more recognisable, changed my entire approach to the guitar. I didn't like it and prefer the normal high A. Maybe it'll help you though!


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## Fred the Shred (Jul 19, 2012)

If you want to maintain normal intervals, so to speak, that is the best course of action, yes - it's a "tenor 8" of sorts.


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## Brill (Jul 19, 2012)

Does anyone know some open tunings for this sort of set up? preferably with the B bass as the lowest...? I have really been trying to find some, but have had little luck..


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## stuglue (Jul 20, 2012)

What I've noticed is that in terms of ease of use the bottom three strings are exactly the same as the top three (B,E,A) so the positions are the same.
The downside is that the very top string and the bottom string aren't the same note. A regular 6 string has a low E and a high E which is convenient in terms of ease of learning.
I must say having the high A as opposed to the low F# has far more chordal and scalar options.


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## Brill (Jul 20, 2012)

I've really wanted to get an LTD 8 to tune to high A. The omen is esaier than an Ibby to tune to A.. But the LTD takes the prize for easiest tuning up.


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## stuglue (Jul 20, 2012)

The ESP ltd should be the best for tuning to A as its the shortest


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## lukeshallperish (Sep 4, 2013)

I want to do this with my RG8. Do you think the .007 will work to tune to Ab on the 27 inch scale length?


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Sep 4, 2013)

doubt it, you could maybe do it on a 25.5


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## Winspear (Sep 5, 2013)

lukeshallperish said:


> I want to do this with my RG8. Do you think the .007 will work to tune to Ab on the 27 inch scale length?



Yes, it will be fragile but it can work. Wouldn't ever use it live. Be prepared to have to work on sharp points at the tuners/nut/bridge. This string will show them very easily.


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## welsh_7stinger (Sep 5, 2013)

i do that on my schecter damien elite 8 but with a .008 gauge and i find zero issues. Creatively or string breakage wise.


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## Winspear (Sep 5, 2013)

^ 26.5 right? Does make a large difference at such pitches believe it or not. 
His compares to 25.5 A whereas yours is more like 24.75 A, big difference when a string is right near it's breaking tension. 
27" can however do G with no issue (still, don't try bending it more than a semitone.) 26.5" G can bend quite well.


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## Jessy (Sep 5, 2013)

I've got a DC800 (27") with Graph Tech ghost saddles. That handles Ab, but you can't bend it. The stock saddles could do G.

My solution for tuning, is, to, 13 years ago, stop using any major third intervals, and tune all of my guitars and basses in all fourths, unless alternate tuning is needed. Then every instrument and every fret position are the same thing, transposed.


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## vansinn (Sep 5, 2013)

There's quite a difference between tuning to A4 as to A4b.
I've tuned my 26.5" Riot 8 to G4 using D'Addario 008 and could bend a half step, but it was very high tensioned, and a 007 only felt softer when not bending. As soon as I started bending, it became a venerable cheese-slizer 

Personally, I feel it's useless being able to tune whatever high if this only allows a static situation and no bending options..
I'm not going there again until some string enters the market that'll allow at least half a step bending, preferable a full step.


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## Jessy (Sep 5, 2013)

vansinn said:


> Personally, I feel it's useless being able to tune whatever high if this only allows a static situation and no bending options..


It depends on scale length and your ears. Although I hate having to remember not to bend it, an unbendable high string is more useful to me than a flubby, undefined low note, which is what those lower than A, at 27", are to me. An 8-string without multiscale is dumb. But if we keep buying single scale instruments, and not requesting that the manufacturers do better, that's what we deal with. I had a mutliscale Agile, though, and it just didn't compare to my DC800, even with its shortcoming. I can't vote with my dollar yet.


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## Johnathan (Sep 5, 2013)

Sorry to be that kind of dude but...I don't get a high A tuning, can someone explain to me? It just sounds like a bunch of problems to get it to work properly, and finding string gauge that makes it possible itself. Seems like you need a heck of a short scale and a heck of a thin string to make it possible.

Someone that can show me a video or a sound clip of it so i can hear how it sounds?


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## Winspear (Sep 5, 2013)

Johnathan said:


> Sorry to be that kind of dude but...I don't get a high A tuning, can someone explain to me? It just sounds like a bunch of problems to get it to work properly, and finding string gauge that makes it possible itself. Seems like you need a heck of a short scale and a heck of a thin string to make it possible.
> 
> Someone that can show me a video or a sound clip of it so i can hear how it sounds?



It sounds just the same as anything above fret 5 on your high E really. The string itself can physically be a bit quiet of course. I rose the individual polepiece to get the same volume (on clean) or drive (on dist).

It's very easy to get hold of the necessary gauges. However yes A is a whole different ballgame to G or G# as mentioned. Unless you go around 23" (I actually really want a 22" EADGBEA 7 with a trem..)

My guitar is 24.75 on the top with a G# 008. Safe, semitone bends are ok but hard. Not a big deal to me personally. 

The logic behind it for me was nothing to do with not having high enough notes. I didn't ever see myself going above fret 17 on it say, as I rarely went above 20 or so on the high E usually! However I did end up using the Ab6 in a recent solo as it happens...

It was more about just having notes available in a different place. I look at it exactly the same as a 7 string player might look at his high E vs. a baritone 6 player with only a high B. 

Never liked the higher frets, and it opens up chords and arp shapes that would otherwise have involved tapping.


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## Given To Fly (Sep 5, 2013)

A High A tuning just keeps the interval pattern consistent.


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## Winspear (Sep 5, 2013)

Given To Fly said:


> A High A tuning just keeps the interval pattern consistent.



How so? If anything it confuses it - I notice people being a little confused in BEADGBEA because of the placement of the odd interval changes. 
I've suggested BEADGCEA to remedy this (as it ends up an uptuned version of F#BEADGBE, keeping the odd interval where we are used to it).

A tuning that would keep the interval pattern consistent would be all 4ths - BEADGCFBb but that's of course even more unachievable. 

Personally I really like BEADGBEA as I didn't find the change of placement confusing and it fits perfectly to all barre chords and arpeggios.


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## Jessy (Sep 5, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> A tuning that would keep the interval pattern consistent would be all 4ths - BEADGCFBb but that's of course even more unachievable.


Not if you capo at the 2nd fret &#8211; my solution.



EtherealEntity said:


> Personally I really like BEADGBEA as I didn't find the change of placement confusing and it fits perfectly to all barre chords and arpeggios.


Diagonal barre chords aren't that bad, except in the lowest registers, but they were definitely easier on my multiscale. Every blasted thing is better with multiscale.


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## Given To Fly (Sep 6, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> How so? If anything it confuses it - I notice people being a little confused in BEADGBEA because of the placement of the odd interval changes.
> I've suggested BEADGCEA to remedy this (as it ends up an uptuned version of F#BEADGBE, keeping the odd interval where we are used to it).
> 
> A tuning that would keep the interval pattern consistent would be all 4ths - BEADGCFBb but that's of course even more unachievable.
> ...



I just meant we traditionally tune in 4ths when we add strings. For example, the low B and low F#. I think in 4ths on the guitar simply because its been drilled into my head for 15 years. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel.


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## Johnathan (Sep 6, 2013)

Jessy said:


> Not if you capo at the 2nd fret  my solution.



Oh god... Capo to me just shows how insecure a player is to his guitar playing.


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## Winspear (Sep 6, 2013)

Johnathan said:


> Oh god... Capo to me just shows how insecure a player is to his guitar playing.


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## Johnathan (Sep 6, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


>



A slightly vague thing to say i know. But i think it does to some extent. Can't tell how often i see guitarists (acoustic and eletric) using capo instead playing the actual barre chords you would do without capo. Just would sound nicer without capo, and look even better.


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## Winspear (Sep 6, 2013)

Ok I get you with regards to Open Chord songs when the singer just wants to sing a bit higher or something. (Which I think is what capos were acutally made for?)

But I do use a capo extensively just to have a guitar that's in various tunings whilst keeping tension consistent and not having to change strings etc. It certainly wouldn't be possible to play a lot of metal riffs in A say, on a guitar in G without a capo.


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## Johnathan (Sep 6, 2013)

I just think that Capos ruin the tone. Always tend to buzz at every fret due to the change in the string action over the frets.


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## Jessy (Sep 6, 2013)

Johnathan said:


> I just think that Capos ruin the tone. Always tend to buzz at every fret due to the change in the string action over the frets.


That's a problem with the capo, setup, or both. helferlain has some useful thoughts on capos/zero frets here.

Capos are not as good as having multiple guitars of different scales, but I don't make guitars, and the instruments I like only come in one or two scales which are very close to each other. So, I capo when I need the capo-d notes to act as open strings. I don't do it frequently.


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## Johnathan (Sep 6, 2013)

Jessy said:


> That's a problem with the capo, setup, or both. helferlain has some useful thoughts on capos/zero frets here.
> 
> Capos are not as good as having multiple guitars of different scales, but I don't make guitars, and the instruments I like only come in one or two scales which are very close to each other. So, I capo when I need the capo-d notes to act as open strings. I don't do it frequently.



Thats a totally different story, i get that. I just don't get the most commonly use for capos. Which is essentially just "tuning" up the whole guitar.


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## celticelk (Sep 6, 2013)

Johnathan said:


> Thats a totally different story, i get that. I just don't get the most commonly use for capos. Which is essentially just "tuning" up the whole guitar.



Play an open G chord in standard tuning, and then play a G barre chord at the third fret. It's a different sound. Compositionally you might opt for one or the other depending on the sound you're going for. Capos give you that option in other keys.


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## Winspear (Sep 6, 2013)

celticelk said:


> Play an open G chord in standard tuning, and then play a G barre chord at the third fret. It's a different sound. Compositionally you might opt for one or the other depending on the sound you're going for. Capos give you that option in other keys.



Well, that is an entirely different voicing and arrangement of notes, aye.



Johnathan said:


> Thats a totally different story, i get that. I just don't get the most commonly use for capos. Which is essentially just "tuning" up the whole guitar.



Convenience


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## vansinn (Sep 6, 2013)

Well, one thing you can say about not using a capo: Having to do a barre means one finger less for the other stuff - and shreds, arpeggios and sweeps just aren't as easy with the hand going stiffy in a barre 

WRT tunings, on eight stringers, I find the tradition almost-all-4th-with-a-m3 often being confusing. I go up in pure 4th from the lower strings, and suddenly there's this weird m3 step, but after this it's all 4th again.
True 4th tuning is more natural on multistringers; however, I, like I guess most others, happens to have the traditional tuning build-in, so..
When I get my sixer replaced by a seven stringer and use this for most everything normal, it's quite possible I'll permanently keep my eight stringer in true fourth, and simply use it only in arrangement it works with.


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## Jessy (Sep 6, 2013)

vansinn said:


> I, like I guess most others, happens to have the traditional tuning build-in


The traditional tuning for bass is all fourths, and I've played bass as much as guitar, so that probably helped ease my adoption of all 4ths tuning on the guitar, and influenced my playing. I've tried other intervals, but 4ths is a happy medium for me.


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## GrayLion (Jan 24, 2019)

for a high A fanfret, what would be good? 24" ... 27"? I don't want the B string to get too heavy.


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## Winspear (Jan 24, 2019)

GrayLion said:


> for a high A fanfret, what would be good? 24" ... 27"? I don't want the B string to get too heavy.


If you want to bend it two semitones and treat it absolutely like a normal string, 22" on top. 23" or 23.5" works quite well enough if you don't mind being a little nervous to bend it lots, only bend a semitone, or wont be relying on it not failing you live. At 24" you really don't want to be bending it unless you are ok with it breaking, and bending more than a semitone is pretty much out. All of the above are safe for sustained use without bending, though 24" may break occasionally.
Personally, 23" and semitone bends only is where I'd go.
This is just my experience, others have had greater success but it's risky and most people seem to agree roughly with my findings.
Basically go as short as you are happy with on the B, and as wide on the fan as you are happy with to bring the treble down.
Also consider tuning down a semitone, or two. It makes a huge difference to either how safe it is, or how long you can go. I do G# on 24.75 with semitone bends which is much the same as A on 23.3


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