# Progressive metal (djent) harmonization?



## iRaiseTheDead (Mar 11, 2012)

I've noticed bands like Periphery use harmonies that sound a lot different than 3rds or 5ths. I've tried to replicate it but not entirely sure on what they are. Anyone know these harmonies?


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## 80H (Mar 11, 2012)

it would help if you would identify particular parts of songs, but just off the top of my head - 

there's a lot of minor 9th, 11th, and 13th chords. 3 notes that should help you quite a bit are the note between the 4 and the 5, the note between the 5 and the 6, and the note between the 6 and the 7. try to perceive them as both sharp and flat notes and see what kind of different sounds you can get out of the perspective of changing them. 

playing scales over augmented and diminished chords can also provide a lot of possibility for getting an outside sound. the easiest way that i have been able to come up with for playing around with these is to pick a random mode, then pick a random scale to derive from the parent major scale of that mode and experiment my heart out. fun stuff.


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## rippedflesh89 (Mar 11, 2012)

the best way to learn harmony is to study classical counterpoint,

IMO, counterpoint harmonies are way more interesting than parallel harmonies


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## iRaiseTheDead (Mar 11, 2012)

rippedflesh89 said:


> the best way to learn harmony is to study classical counterpoint,
> 
> IMO, counterpoint harmonies are way more interesting than parallel harmonies



What does this mean?  I'm happy I'm hearing about terms I'm not familiar with! Learn something new everyday I guess


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## Trespass (Mar 11, 2012)

rippedflesh89 said:


> the best way to learn harmony is to study classical counterpoint,
> 
> IMO, counterpoint harmonies are way more interesting than parallel harmonies



I don't see how this relates to the question. 

Harmonic movement and extended harmony are two different subjects, and I don't hear a whole lot of classical counterpoint ideas being employed in Periphery's tunes.

Studying jazz harmony, particularly how guitarists are voicing clusters will get you a lot closer OP. 

Studying Ed Bickert, Lorne Lofsky are two guitarists who will voice chords closely. This will get you closer to understanding the tense, dissonant chords Periphery is using on the E, B, G string set. Just one idea.


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## KingAenarion (Mar 12, 2012)

^

I agree, Periphery's style of harmony is far closer to a modal jazz harmony than any sort of classical species counterpoint.


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## noUser01 (Mar 12, 2012)

rippedflesh89 said:


> the best way to learn harmony is to study classical counterpoint,
> 
> IMO, counterpoint harmonies are way more interesting than parallel harmonies



To be honest as much as classical counterpoint is helpful for learning the basics of harmony, 1) This is not what he's asking about and 2) It's not that beneficially to this style of music if we're talking about the choice of chords and scales.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Mar 12, 2012)

OP, post an example of something that you want to imitate and I'll help you out. Everything I've heard from Periphery seems to be tertian in nature. Of course, that doesn't preclude other intervals in harmonization, but you're still dealing with the same material. One place you might want to look is the inversions of the intervals you're used to: sixths instead of thirds, and fourths instead of fifths.

And, yeah, disregard counterpoint for now. It's an awesome thing to have, but it's not germane to this subject.


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## rippedflesh89 (Mar 12, 2012)

iRaiseTheDead said:


> What does this mean?  I'm happy I'm hearing about terms I'm not familiar with! Learn something new everyday I guess



as others have said, this may not exactly apply to this style of music; but i will answer your question:

counterpoint is combination of two or more relatively independant melodic lines:

first, some very basic concepts of counterpoint; there are several different movements you can have between two melodic lines: picture two melodies, one higher and one lower:

-static: both notes stay the same, very simple, both melodies dont move at all

-oblique: one melody moves while the other stays the same,

-contrary: melodies move in opposite directions

ex) one melody moves up while the other descends

-parallel: both melodies move in the same direction by the same amount:

ex) both melodies move up or down by a 3rd, one could move by a major 3rd and the other by a minor 3rd, but if they both move in 3rds in the same direction, it is parallel movement; moving power chords around or octaves around is called parallel fifths or parallel octaves respectively

-similar: both melodies move in the same direction, but by different intervals

ex) one melody moves up a 3rd while the other moves up a 4th or one melody moves down a 2nd while the other moves down a 5th

back to counterpoint: relatively independent pretty much means both melodies rarley move in parallel motion to each other; 100% parallel motion is not counterpoint, but a bunch of similar motion, contrary motion and oblique motion with a few parallel movements is counterpoint

the reason for this is because counterpoint is all about the independence of the two melodic lines; when melodies move in parallel motion, it doesn't really bring any independence the melodic lines; it just sounds like one line is being doubled at a 3rd or 6th or whatever interval

some of the best music to listen to hear quality counterpoint is Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin and some good modern composers would be Stravinsky, Shostakovich, Messiaen, Prokofiev

when you listen to the artists, really focus on how there are multiple melodies, every one being its own separate melody that come together to create very interesting harmonies,

with that said, most metal music has a lot of parallel motion so it may not really apply to the style of music you are trying to create; however if you think it does and you would like to learn more, feel free to PM and i could elaborate in much more detail without derailing a thread; i love teaching this kind of stuff because classical music is very big passion of mine


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Mar 13, 2012)

Here's some easy-to-hear counterpoint:

Modest Moussorgsky - Gnomus (Ravel orchestration)


This was originally written as a piano piece, so we don't have to look at a giant orchestral score to see what's going on.







This is what we have from 1:38-2:03. There are two distinct melodies here: a descending chromatic scale (blue) and a melody that jumps around (red). From 1:38-1:51, the woodwinds have the red melody, and the brass and strings have the blue melody. Then, from 1:51-2:03, the brass section has the red melody and the woodwinds and strings have the blue melody.

Can you hear two distinct melodies? That is what counterpoint is. We can further describe these melodies by seeing how they interact with each other. rippedflesh89 pointed out the different motion procedures. Both of these melodies have a descending contour, so we say that they are in similar motion. If the red melody was descending and the blue melody was ascending, they would be in contrary motion.


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## Wings of Obsidian (Mar 13, 2012)

From studying some of Misha's songs, I've seen chromatic harmony, use of 2nds, and use of 3rds.

There probably are a few different intervals and different intervalic harmonies that Periphery uses though.


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## iRaiseTheDead (Mar 13, 2012)

@SchecterWhote



The intro to this song is the perfect example 

rippedflesh89 - I do remember learning this in a theory class. It always got me lost :s


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Mar 14, 2012)

Octaves, major sevenths, minor seconds, and tritones are where you want to go, I think.


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## iRaiseTheDead (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks so much!


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## Solodini (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't think counterpoint is irrelevant add Misha often talks about enjoying different layers which aren't just simple harmony lines, but interact with each other more deeply. Try writing a simple melody and then a countermelody which harmonises with the melody but moves between each intervalsused.


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