# Differences between 28" and 30" scale - 8 String Guitar



## TheDeltaOrionis (Dec 15, 2010)

Which are the differences, in terms of *sound*, between a 28" scale and a 30" in a 8 string guitar? 
I'm asking this because I don't know which guitar choose:
Agile Intrepid Pro Dual 830 MN NA at RondoMusic.com
Agile Intrepid Dual 828 EB Charcoal at RondoMusic.com

I think I'd be able to handle a 30" scale guitar after some practice, moreover "big" guitars look just better to me  
But does it worth it? Is a 30" scale significantly *better *than a thinner scale in terms of sound? 

And what about the body wood: ash or mahogany? 
I want a rich and full sound, but with a lot of clarity. That's why I'm partially leaning toward the mahogany wood: if I throw a Coldsweat or Aftermath pickup in the bridge it should be perfect. I had experience only with Mahogany body guitars, so I don't know anything about Ash guitars!
I'm definitely a djentleman, so consider that before answering! 


Thanks for your help,
_Patrick _from Italy


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## Scarpie (Dec 15, 2010)

Hello, 
welcome to the forum!! To answer your question, I'd say it depends on what you are going to tune to. If you are going to tune standard I'd opt for the 28.625" scale. If you are going to tune down, then it's safer to go with the 30" 

In the end it really is subjective to each player. For me, 30" is great for low tunings as it's articulate and offers nice tight string tension, BUT really makes the first 6 strings way too stiff for my taste, I bend notes A LOT when i solo, and i like some slack on my treble strings, so i would go for the 28 as i said to offer less stiffness. the shorter the scale I've also noticed makes the higher strings have more "punch" and warmth, for heavy playing it's makes the higher notes a little more on par with the low strings. With such long scales the low strings sound great, but higher strings sound less powerful. Again it's different for everyone i guess, but this has been my experience. So that is why i say tuning plays a big role. 

As far as body woods, go I'd have to say I am quite the fan of mahogany myself. My les paul just delivers goods in ways no other guitar i've had can compete. However, I recently got my dirty hands on an ash 9 string, and I can't get over how great it sounds. It has great low end, and notes articulate fantastically in chord work. The note seperation in chords is really a great novelty. Good luck!!


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## bostjan (Dec 15, 2010)

Extra scale length adds tension, proportional to the square of the length. So twice the length is four times the tension.

Extra scale length also adds harmonicity (how in-tune harmonics are), proportional to length to the fourth power, so double the length is sixteen times the harmonicity.

This becomes important with very low tunings. If you want to tune BEADGBEA with a high A, then 30" makes no sense at all, but for a low F#, a 30" scale will have 15% more tension and 32% better harmonic content than 28".


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## TheDeltaOrionis (Dec 15, 2010)

Being a Meshuggah fan, the 8 string I'm refering to is the one with the added low F# .
Both your opinions are interesting, but I'm more interested in having a really good sound with the *lower* strings (that's why I'm gettin' a 8 string with the low F# ): if a 30" scale adds harmonic content and sharpness to the low F# more than a 28" scale, then I will definitely go for a 30" scale guitar 

Glad to hear that both ash and mahogany would be a good choice!

More opinions?  I need to clarify this question >.<


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 15, 2010)

bostjan said:


> Extra scale length adds tension, proportional to the square of the length. So twice the length is four times the tension.
> 
> Extra scale length also adds harmonicity (how in-tune harmonics are), proportional to length to the fourth power, so double the length is sixteen times the harmonicity.
> 
> This becomes important with very low tunings. If you want to tune BEADGBEA with a high A, then 30" makes no sense at all, but for a low F#, a 30" scale will have 15% more tension and 32% better harmonic content than 28".





^good to know


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## bostjan (Dec 15, 2010)

There is not much on the internet about inharmonicity, for whatever reason, but there are plenty of technical papers about it. I think that the reason most inharmonicity papers are geared toward piano and double bass is because the mainstream doesn't expect guitar to be tuned low enough for it to matter.

As far as tonewoods, Ash and Mahogany can work great, and it depends on the pickups used, but there are not a huge selection of 8-string pickups on the mass market, so it makes the choice pretty easy.


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## Hollowway (Dec 16, 2010)

Bostjan has a kickass thread on here somewhere about the minimal scale length you'd want for a relatively low inharmonicity. I'll edit this with the link if I can't find it (after I get off the iPhone and on the computer).

Also, IMO the 28 5/8" sounds great on F#, and is juuuust barely playable for long (Gilbert) stretches. 

It's also worth mentioning that while a lot of people are concerned about the increase in tension when you increase scale length, but you really should keep the tension the same as you are used to and change the gauges to compensate for the new scale length. So like on my Intrepid I use 8-68, which gives roughly the same tension as a 9 set on 25.5". Use a string tension calculator to determine the exact gauges you want.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Dec 16, 2010)

i'v got a 28.5 in E0 and it sounds great. the bends can be a bit difficult but i also use very loose strings(even though i have a .90 on there ) so that takes care of the bending problem.

personally, i think 30 would just be a bit too bassy


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## Winspear (Dec 16, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> Bostjan has a kickass thread on here somewhere about the minimal scale length you'd want for a relatively low inharmonicity. I'll edit this with the link if I can't find it (after I get off the iPhone and on the computer).



http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/10064-string-gauges-inharmonicity.html


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## Hollowway (Dec 16, 2010)

EtherealEntity said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/10064-string-gauges-inharmonicity.html



Oh, cool. Thanks for posting that!
And Bostjan, you totally should revive that thread because that's the coolest thing on here, and it's super relevant to ERG players. Any chance of you running new numbers on longer scales and lower tuning like we're seein people play these days?


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## Durero (Dec 22, 2010)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> i'v got a 28.5 in E0 and it sounds great. the bends can be a bit difficult but i also use very loose strings(even though i have a .90 on there ) so that takes care of the bending problem.
> 
> personally, i think 30 would just be a bit too bassy



If you keep the same tuning and keep the same tension by using thinner strings then the 30" scale will sound _less_ bassy than the 28.5" scale.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Dec 23, 2010)

Durero said:


> If you keep the same tuning and keep the same tension by using thinner strings then the 30" scale will sound _less_ bassy than the 28.5" scale.



I'm not saying you arnt right, but if that was the case, why doesnt meshuggah use 20.5'' guitars?

One would assume that they want a bassy sound so they go with a longer scale. So your statement is counter intutive to me without some explaination


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## Winspear (Dec 23, 2010)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> I'm not saying you arnt right, but if that was the case, why doesnt meshuggah use 20.5'' guitars?
> 
> One would assume that they want a bassy sound so they go with a longer scale. So your statement is counter intutive to me without some explaination



They do not want a bassy sound. 
They go with longer scale so that they can get playable tension on low tunings without having to use a huge gauge string.
Thinner strings = less bassy, clearer tone.

E.g. I tune to G# on 25.5" with a 70 to _feel_ comfortable but the large gauge for a note that isn't all that low makes it sound very bassy and unclear. I would much rather use a 60 gauge on a 30" for the same tension and clearer tone.


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## Durero (Dec 23, 2010)

^ 

An example from my own experience: I bought an Ibanez Universe when they were released in 1990. I loved the guitar except the tone of the 25.5" scale low B string was too bassy and muddy for my taste. Eventually I got a prototype 7-string built which had the same low B at the 30" scale point and the difference in tone was phenomenal. Much much less muddy and bassy and way clearer and more guitar-like.


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## gr8Har V (Dec 25, 2010)

28.625" hands down. not saying 30 is bad but if you want meshuggah tone 28.625 is perfect. 30 will have a brighter sound, almost Periphery like, and i consider their tone the exact opposite of meshuggah. you could get lower guage strings for the 30, but it still wouldn't be the same. 28.625 with mahogany would be best  ash is heavier, and i'm about 70% certain it produces a brighter tone


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## goherpsNderp (Dec 25, 2010)

i love my 28.625" agile but i am having issues with tension, but it's related to my play style. i don't want thicker strings, but tuned to meshuggah's tuning (which BTW, i thought was F, Bflat, Eflat, etc.) the bottom 2 strings flop around too much and pop a lot as if i was slapping a bass string. so basically i would need longer scale so i could keep the same gauge strings and help eliminate the slapping.

could but worse though: i could be using a normal scale guitar.


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## Hollowway (Dec 25, 2010)

gr8Har V said:


> 28.625" hands down. not saying 30 is bad but if you want meshuggah tone 28.625 is perfect. 30 will have a brighter sound, almost Periphery like, and i consider their tone the exact opposite of meshuggah. you could get lower guage strings for the 30, but it still wouldn't be the same. 28.625 with mahogany would be best  ash is heavier, and i'm about 70% certain it produces a brighter tone



But Meshuggah use 30.5" guitars, so I'm not sure a shorter scale would sound more like them. 

IMO, if you're ok with low F#, 28.625" is good. Below that I'd start seriously looking at longer scale lengths, but balance that against the fact that the higher strings won't sound as good.


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## TomAwesome (Dec 26, 2010)

EtherealEntity said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/10064-string-gauges-inharmonicity.html



This is a really interesting read. I'm wondering now if this might help explain why I like thin strings and why I have trouble getting my 8 sounding how I want it, and if I'm going about correcting the issues in a way that's backwards and might be making things worse. Hrmm. I might have to read through that again when I'm less sleep deprived.


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## vansinn (Dec 27, 2010)

Just a short add on scale and playability.. I used to think 27"/28" would be too difficult until I'd tried a 7-string 26.5" Schecter and 27" RGA8 and 2280, and found merely a small adjustment to those longer scales was needed- ohh, and a Bit more space between upper frets 

I just shopped a 35" 7-string bass (a Wolf Guitars build, sold by HK on ebay), and had thought it might also see some use for downtuned djent. After an hour, I found myself playing slow riffs and using it very much as a really low tuned axe as well, hehe.. - that is, on the upper 6 strings, omitting the too low B, but still.

Having adjusted from 6-string 25.5" guitars to this much wider and almost 10" longer scale in an hour, I will no longer fear a 28" or 30" 8-string guitar 
An mind you, I do not even have obscenely long fingers..

I'll think, unless having issues with finger length, that scale is mostly dictated by how low vs i.e. A4 strings the intended styles and applications calls for, which will dictate the string gauges needed.


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## ra1der2 (Dec 27, 2010)

There is a small difference in playability between the two scale lengths, some chords are a chore for me on the 30" more so than the 28.625". The real difference sound wise is that the longer scale has more clarity and harmonic overtones.


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## mattofvengeance (Dec 27, 2010)

Scarpie said:


> In the end it really is subjective to each player. For me, 30" is great for low tunings as it's articulate and offers nice tight string tension, BUT really makes the first 6 strings way too stiff for my taste, I bend notes A LOT when i solo, and i like some slack on my treble strings, so i would go for the 28 as i said to offer less stiffness. the shorter the scale I've also noticed makes the higher strings have more "punch" and warmth, for heavy playing it's makes the higher notes a little more on par with the low strings. With such long scales the low strings sound great, but higher strings sound less powerful. Again it's different for everyone i guess, but this has been my experience. So that is why i say tuning plays a big role.



This. Not only do I bend a lot when I solo, but I like to control my bends, and I found that to be really difficult on a 28.625" Agile. I had to put everything I had into it, which made me long for the fluidity of soloing on a 25.5" scale  I got my hands on a 27", set it up with 10s, and the problem was solved. We tune a full step down, and I find that scale length to be the perfect medium between the added tension of a longer scale and the ease of soloing on a standard scale. That, and our rhythm guitarist uses a 28.625 to cover the tighter tension aspect


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## Hollowway (Dec 27, 2010)

mattofvengeance said:


> This. Not only do I bend a lot when I solo, but I like to control my bends, and I found that to be really difficult on a 28.625" Agile. I had to put everything I had into it, which made me long for the fluidity of soloing on a 25.5" scale  I got my hands on a 27", set it up with 10s, and the problem was solved. We tune a full step down, and I find that scale length to be the perfect medium between the added tension of a longer scale and the ease of soloing on a standard scale. That, and our rhythm guitarist uses a 28.625 to cover the tighter tension aspect


Yeah, but why not use a lighter string gauge when moving up in scale length? I know a lot of people talk about increase in string tension when increasing the scale length, but they're not tied together. I use 9s on my 25.5" guitars and 8s on my 28.625" guitars and they have the same tension.

And with respect to playing longer scales, I had no adjustment time whatsoever going to 28.625" for the vast majority of what I play, but there are some longer stretches that get just out of reach on the longer scale. It wouldn't affect me composing, but in doing certain covers it's an issue.


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## Eric Christian (Dec 31, 2010)

MoRioR said:


> Which are the differences, in terms of *sound*, between a 28" scale and a 30" in a 8 string guitar?
> I'm asking this because I don't know which guitar choose:
> Agile Intrepid Pro Dual 830 MN NA at RondoMusic.com
> Agile Intrepid Dual 828 EB Charcoal at RondoMusic.com
> ...


 
I've pretty much decided on either an Agile Interceptor Pro 730 or 830 cause I just play experimental sort of droney stuff and lots of palm muted crunching so I want to tune down lower to like E standard or maybe even lower and the 30 inch scale length is what it takes I guess. Now it just depends on what Kurt gets in so now I just check his page every day. 

I'm really more of a Floyd person so I'm more inclined to go with the 730 but I'm guessing you could put a much thicker string on the 830 Kahler though. Right now I've taken a Floyd saddle block and ground a deep groove in it and it holds a 070 nicely which has allowed me to go with a 070, 060, 052, 036, 018, 014, 011 on my Jackson and it sounds alright at F# standard tuning. Sound a little better at G standard tuning but its too much tension to keep the tremolo level even with all the springs installed and cranked down all the way.


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## blastbeatdown (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm buying an Agile Intrepid 8 string next week. I'm leaning towards the 28". Lots of people on here have been suggesting 30" is the way to go if you plan on down tuning, but what if I only drop the top string to E? I don't want the high strings to be stiff, and I can't imagine the inharmonicity being so bad even if I have to go with a slightly thicker string for the low E. This thread is gettin old already, but any input would be appreciated 

p.s. this is my first post, been creeping for years.


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## onefingersweep (Feb 12, 2011)

Definitely go for the 30, so much better IMO. cleaner, tighter, better intonation, just better.


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## MikeH (Feb 12, 2011)

2". 


I keed, I keed. I have the Septor 828 and I really dig it. I think 30" would be too big of a switch _personally_ from 25.5". But in terms of sound, the 30" will certainly be more defined and clear.


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## tony bostony (Oct 25, 2013)

This thread is great and just what I needed to read. I play a Chapman n/s stick which is a 34" scale. Its tuned EADGBEA and feels like a les Paul in terms of tension to me. I'm looking to buy an extended scale guitar that can handle the same tuning. 

After reading this thread, is it safe to say the 28 is the way to go?


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## RobPhoboS (Nov 28, 2013)

What's the cheapest (new) 30" scale 8 string available in the UK at the moment ?
I dig the look of the Agile Intrepid but fear we'd get bent over for import duties etc.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 28, 2013)

To my knowledge, the Ibanez M80M would be the closest.


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## serch777 (Nov 28, 2013)

Yeah, to my knowledge the Ibanez M80M is the only 30" scale 8-string in production at the moment. It seems to be an amazing guitar for the price!


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## MF_Kitten (Nov 28, 2013)

serch777 said:


> Yeah, to my knowledge the Ibanez M80M is the only 30" scale 8-string in production at the moment. It seems to be an amazing guitar for the price!



It's the only one aside from Agile, anyway.


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## 7stg (Nov 28, 2013)

Those are the less expensive ones and there is:

Bowes Guitars 8 String 30 inch SLx Carvetop $2,300 base. Black Water Guitars upcharge, Chellee custom option, Conklin Guitars custom option, Equilibrium Guitars maybe, jaden rose guitars maybe, Oakland Axe Factory, Ran Guitars, Siggery, Skervesen, Teuffel, Vik Guitars

I am sure I missed a few.


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## tsar nicholas (Nov 29, 2013)

I just read the inharmonicity thread, very elucidating stuff and dovetails with Ralph Novak's essay on the subject. Sort of making me want to go 30" on my next (and hopefully last!) electric.


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## Roland777 (Nov 29, 2013)

serch777 said:


> Yeah, to my knowledge the Ibanez M80M is the only 30" scale 8-string in production at the moment. It seems to be an amazing guitar for the price!









*29.4 inches.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 29, 2013)

Which is why I said "closest." 

It's only like $949 (pounds) at Andertons. If you need a neck pickup, a routing job and a new pickup/selector switch will still probably be under 1500 pounds.


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## facepalm66 (Nov 29, 2013)

I have a 30.2" and I gotta say, the low notes are EXTREMELY awesome, and very articulate, growly. Lots'a'overtones. 
Higher notes are not quite for bending a lot. 2 semi tones is quite the limit. and it's ever hard to bend that much. 
Also, higher notes have more shrill, sound a bit darker. But I like them time to time that way (neck PU will help a lot, however, I prefer bridge PU with Volume off a bit)
Also, sustain is great too.

If you have more specific questions, PM : )


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