# New Trivium song "The Sin and the Sentence"



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 1, 2017)




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## Dayviewer (Aug 1, 2017)

Well that's most certainly one hell of a move back in the right direction 
Hope to hear more of this in the next album


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 1, 2017)

reminds me of shogun, which is a very good thing.


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## Blytheryn (Aug 1, 2017)

This is totally sick. Love the BMish direction with the same anthemic qualities that Silence in the Snow had. They're on to something and it's going to be crazy if the rest of the album keeps this going.


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## The Mirror (Aug 1, 2017)

Nope. Nope. I'm out for this one, too. Only thing that reminded me of why I loved this band til Shogun is the outro from 5:15 onwards.

That should have been the main riff to go onwards from.

These guys were just crushed after 2008 by Sylosis and I absolutely have no reason to come back to them. Everything they do, Sylosis does better.


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## Asrial (Aug 1, 2017)

Glad to hear the growls back in full force! Okay, I have to say the ending was the absolute best part of the song, but this looks more promising than the previous two albums.


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## couverdure (Aug 1, 2017)

The Mirror said:


> Nope. Nope. I'm out for this one, too. Only thing that reminded me of why I loved this band til Shogun is the outro from 5:15 onwards.
> 
> That should have been the main riff to go onwards from.
> 
> These guys were just crushed after 2008 by Sylosis and I absolutely have no reason to come back to them. Everything they do, Sylosis does better.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 1, 2017)

MUCH better than the last album which I felt was very uninspired and basic sounding for Trivium, the songs also died live. That new drummer is awesome, there needs to be more metal drummers like that since it adds so much to the song. 

Trivium have always had a lot of power metal influence in their music but this song leans really heavily to it. Looking forward to this album anyway!


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## lewis (Aug 1, 2017)

slightly better than the last album but only a small nod to their ACTUAL sound (which is heavy) being merely an outro, is NOT enough to save this.
The band have been on the decline for years after peaking early.
I honestly dont know what they are scared of. Make a heavy album again ala Ascendancy or Shogun and literally guarantee massive sales with all their original fanbase flocking out to buy the record.
Instead choose to play safe (which is ironic because I dont think it is safe) by playing a much more dumbed down mainstream sound in the hope it maximizes sales.

In my experience fans of HEAVY music are much more loyal to bands than the mainstream lovers these idiot bands try to appeal to. They are ruthless and cut and drop bands in a moment. Metal heads stay loyal.
I like Trivium even now, despite everything, purely thanks to 2 albums they released over 8 years ago or whatever.
With whats been served up since I should hate them.


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## StrmRidr (Aug 1, 2017)

That was so much better than anything on Silence in the Snow.


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## couverdure (Aug 1, 2017)

lewis said:


> slightly better than the last album but only a small nod to their ACTUAL sound (which is heavy) being merely an outro, is NOT enough to save this.
> The band have been on the decline for years after peaking early.
> I honestly dont know what they are scared of. Make a heavy album again ala Ascendancy or Shogun and literally guarantee massive sales with all their original fanbase flocking out to buy the record.
> Instead choose to play safe (which is ironic because I dont think it is safe) by playing a much more dumbed down mainstream sound in the hope it maximizes sales.
> ...


At least David Draiman isn't involved in this again.
Also their fanbase are one of the most loyal in metal and the band typically responds to their questions online. I feel that in Silence In The Snow, Matt wanted to show more of his singing skills after doing screams for all the albums preceding it and now that he's able to scream properly this time, he's bringing them back on this album. First singles are usually not what people want to expect, based on the reactions towards other bands' songs from this forum, but it's always the catchiest one from the album, and most of the time the album would get a lot of praise from those people when it finally drops.


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## MFB (Aug 1, 2017)

Anyone else feel like the lead at 3:25 is borrowed from somewhere? I feel like it's one of those well-known classical pieces, but I for the life of me can't think of which one it actually is. It also kind of reminds me of early Amott Brothers leads, so that might be it.

Aside from that, I enjoy this, and if the whole album is on par with this, then I'll buy it if I remember it exists


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## Gravy Train (Aug 1, 2017)

Pretty good mix of all of their styles over the years. I'm interested to hear more of this album!


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## ArtDecade (Aug 1, 2017)

It is killer! Love it. This is exactly what I hoped they would deliver!


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## gunch (Aug 1, 2017)

I tried listening to this with an open mind but I really hate pop-structured metal. FWIW It's not the vocals (Which I know Heafy is a good singer) It's just verse->chorus automatically shuts my brain off in a metal context. 

I'll go spin Capharnaum now


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## lewis (Aug 1, 2017)

silverabyss said:


> I tried listening to this with an open mind but I really hate pop-structured metal. FWIW It's not the vocals (Which I know Heafy is a good singer) It's just verse->chorus automatically shuts my brain off in a metal context.
> 
> I'll go spin Capharnaum now


absolutely. Bores me to death.
I like random structures like for example
intro>Verse>Solo>small brigde>verse 2>Pre chorus >chorus>middle 8>breadowns incl solos>outrochorus thats modified from the first chorus>end etc etc. Tells a constant story and keeps you intrigued for whats next. Especially if the riffs from say verse 1, are different to verse 2.

this whole verse>Chorus>verse2>chorus>middle8>chorus>end with repeated riffs per section needs to die tbh. Too boring and predictable.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 1, 2017)

I was post-structural before it was cool.


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## BusinessMan (Aug 1, 2017)

I kind of like. The last album was very meh, I enjoyed vengeance falls (but I'm also a fan of disturbed, so kill me). Hopefully we get to hear more of this or heavier when we hear more.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Aug 1, 2017)

Yessssss!!!


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## squids (Aug 1, 2017)

not really too stoked on the song.... but the tone is unreal


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## bpprox22 (Aug 1, 2017)

I approve


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 1, 2017)

MFB said:


> Anyone else feel like the lead at 3:25 is borrowed from somewhere? I feel like it's one of those well-known classical pieces, but I for the life of me can't think of which one it actually is. It also kind of reminds me of early Amott Brothers leads, so that might be it.



The wah and duel harmony makes it sound very like Arch Enemy since they've done neo-classical style sections like that. I think its from a Stratovarius song which was taken from some classical piece then.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 1, 2017)

I already know I'm going to like it. I liked silence in the snow. Every one of their albums sounds different and means I don't get bored of them after 3-5 songs.

I'll admit that often times I see that "metalhead fans are loyal" is sort of true but that basically boils down to the caveat "as long as the band keeps releasing the same album". See: slayer.

I'd rather a band keep trying to grow than just take the easy road. Which for Trivium would be to just release Ascendancy every 2 years.

People seem to have a tendency to hear a band once, and whatever that first image is, they get absolutely personally offended if the band deviates from that initial impression. From a musician standpoint, it's just about not getting bored playing the same thing for 20 years. $0.02.


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## works0fheart (Aug 1, 2017)

I honestly don't see how this thread even made it to two pages. This is so boring.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 1, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> The wah and duel harmony makes it sound very like Arch Enemy since they've done neo-classical style sections like that. I think its from a Stratovarius song which was taken from some classical piece then.


it reminds me of vivaldi. I'd swear it's from one of his violin concertos


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## ArtDecade (Aug 2, 2017)

Trivium is going on tour with Arch Enemy.


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## wat (Aug 4, 2017)

Not really hitting the right buttons for me. 

The song structure is very predictable and the whole thing is very radio-rock which seems to be the direction they've been going in. 

I liked parts of it, the guitar sound is fantastic but I feel like the production is what's doing the heavy lifting here.


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## Smoked Porter (Aug 4, 2017)

What's wrong with verses and choruses? It's Trivium, not sure why anyone would expect an ADD-riddled song structure.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 4, 2017)

Asrial said:


> Glad to hear the growls back in full force! Okay, I have to say the ending was the absolute best part of the song, but this looks more promising than the previous two albums.


I'm not. They are so fucking bipolar about the growls. "We stopped doing them cuz our favorite records didn't have them."
"We brought them back cuz blahblahblah"
Back and forth, rinse, wash, repeat. Just do one or the other, and stick to it.


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## exo (Aug 4, 2017)

Sounds like this will continue the pattern of me liking every other album since Shogun........


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## Asrial (Aug 5, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I'm not. They are so fucking bipolar about the growls. "We stopped doing them cuz our favorite records didn't have them."
> "We brought them back cuz blahblahblah"
> Back and forth, rinse, wash, repeat. Just do one or the other, and stick to it.



Errr, growls weren't featured on the last record because Heafy blew his voice. He wasn't able to growl for a few years, and started taking lessons for less harmful growling techniques. Other than that, IIRC Silence is the only album without growls, so "so fucking bipolar about the growls" i think is a bit hyperbolistic.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 5, 2017)

Asrial said:


> Errr, growls weren't featured on the last record because Heafy blew his voice. He wasn't able to growl for a few years, and started taking lessons for less harmful growling techniques. Other than that, IIRC Silence is the only album without growls, so "so fucking bipolar about the growls" i think is a bit hyperbolistic.


Hmm... anyone remember The Crusade? No? And their opinion on growls keeps flip flopping. Frankly, I'll stick to Ascendancy and In Waves. The rest of you can do whatever you like with the rest of the meh they seem content on putting out.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 5, 2017)

I will admit, I watched a video of them playing a concert this year, and Matt's growls sound fucking weird.


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## wat (Aug 15, 2017)

Actually I gotta take back what I said earlier, the song has grown on me quite a bit.


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## wat (Aug 17, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Just do one or the other, and stick to it.



Why? Why does that matter?


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## ohmanthisiscool (Aug 18, 2017)

maybe unpopular opinion but I think Silence in the Snow is their best album and honestly one of my favorites of all time. But this song does seem like they're moving in a heavier direction.


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## Smoked Porter (Aug 18, 2017)

^The title track and Rise Above the Tides are some of the best songs they've done. The album as a whole is pretty good and probably my favorite since Shogun, but I wish it had been a little more riffy.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 18, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I'm not. They are so fucking bipolar about the growls. "We stopped doing them cuz our favorite records didn't have them."
> "We brought them back cuz blahblahblah"
> Back and forth, rinse, wash, repeat. Just do one or the other, and stick to it.



I saw Trivium last year and they sounded like a cover band because of the change in styles from album to album. The encore went from Thrash riffing with clean vocals to metalcore with screams to slow mainstreamish rock/metal with clean vocals to Pantera riffing with guttural vocals.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 18, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I saw Trivium last year and they sounded like a cover band because of the change in styles from album to album. The encore went from Thrash riffing with clean vocals to metalcore with screams to slow mainstreamish rock/metal with clean vocals to Pantera riffing with guttural vocals.


But Lorcan, "why does that matter?"


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## wat (Aug 18, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> But Lorcan, "why does that matter?"


I'm personally okay with a band's albums being different than each other. Different strokes I guess.


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## RoRo56 (Aug 23, 2017)

New single was played today on Sirius XM. It's a real step back IMO as I like what they did with The Sin and the Sentence.


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## MFB (Aug 25, 2017)

It's eh compared to the previous one, but I like it more than their last two albums


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 25, 2017)

MFB said:


> It's eh compared to the previous one, but I like it more than their last two albums



eww it sounds like something from vengeance falls. I hate that album.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2017)

Yuck.


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## StrmRidr (Aug 25, 2017)

ffs Trivium, just when I thought they were on to something...


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## Unleash The Fury (Aug 25, 2017)

Yeah that new song is bad sounds like ffdp or something corny that all that remains did


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## lewis (Aug 25, 2017)

hahahah more fool you lot for hearing the previous release and hoping and thinking they were "back".
This band are done and have been for years. Peaked early and with Travis leaving, have gotten progressively worse since. They dont even know what their sound is anymore.

garbage.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 25, 2017)

Fuck I hate "metalheads" sometimes.

Like, if you aren't cool with the changes they've been making over the years, then:

This. Thread. Ain't. For. You.

No one still listening to trivium honestly expects them to "go back" to whatever album you personally liked.

Every single album sounds different. They have 8 studio albums. It's literally the same as people complaining that the new fast metallica stuff isn't as "complex" as AJFA.

If you can't listen to new tracks for what they are at face value, then you're probably not the target audience.

I keep my "all Djent is kind of boring" to the unpopular opinion thread, I don't go shit on every new track that someone links. Because plenty of others "get" it and like it.

And then we have the absolute fucking dorks that pile on to the "disappointed" fans with "haha I told you so". Like how little do you have to be excited about in your life that making fun of a band you're not interested in is appealing?

It's not even about just trivium anymore, just every time a band releases an album it's always "aw it's not more of XYZ".

Always amazed by the people that whine about what another artist is releasing. Like, go make what YOU want to hear then. Shit, you have a computer right? You do it.

You wouldn't tell a painter that you liked his piece from 7 years ago more, and that he should just paint like that one over and over.

When you're just going to steal a copy of it from elsewhere anyways.

"Ugh no more screams, ugh they aren't riffing correctly, ugh they make more money than my favorite noname band death crucifix, I love when an album sounds like one long fucking blastbeat of a song."


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## BusinessMan (Aug 25, 2017)

I like trivium. Quite a bit. I loved everything from the crusade on (aside silence, that was meh for me). However, this is just awful. I was lied to by that first 15 seconds thinking it would be a heavy song, but it was all a clever rouse. The last Trivium album i really enjoyed was vengeance falls (I am also a fan of disturbed so, go fudge yourself ) The sin and the sentence was a good song, but this hoinestly sounds like an all that remains song.


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## lewis (Aug 25, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> Fuck I hate "metalheads" sometimes.
> 
> Like, if you aren't cool with the changes they've been making over the years, then:
> 
> ...



annnnnnd breathe.....
might want to get some help?.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 25, 2017)

Lewis, you quoted the post to attempt to derail what I posted and accomplish what exactly?

No value add, no discussion? Sad.

You're one of the ones complaining and making fun of a band in a thread about that band.



lewis said:


> *hahahah more fool you lot for hearing the previous release and hoping and thinking they were "back".*
> This band are done and have been for years. Peaked early and with Travis leaving, have gotten progressively worse since. They dont even know what their sound is anymore.
> 
> *garbage*.



Way to go man. You sure got 'em.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> Fuck I hate "metalheads" sometimes.
> 
> Like, if you aren't cool with the changes they've been making over the years, then:
> 
> ...


Are you serious right now? Typical of modern interactions from people who want the safety of an echo chamber. "Wahhhh he has opinions I don't like, silence him!" This pretty ridiculous dude, and the song was dog shit awful. I love Ascendancy and In Waves, and liked stuff in between, but the band doesn't know what the fuck they are doing. Every album is them trying to find something they can do now that they aren't 20 something. Being "the next Metallica" didn't work, so they tried being prob. Then they finally went back to being Trivium only to go, "nah, let's be a slightly personality void version of ourselves mixed with some Disturbed." Then, "nah let's do vibes rock that sort of attempts to cover it in a metal sheen." Then they decided nah again, and produced this steaming pile of feces. I have every album, and I am definitely skipping this fucking skid mark album.


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## lewis (Aug 25, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> Lewis, you quoted the post to attempt to derail what I posted and accomplish what exactly?
> 
> No value add, no discussion? Sad.
> 
> ...


the irony in all this is you were the one making things personal with your digs in your response.
Coming across all high and mighty now is abit silly mate.

My initial post was completely meant as lighthearted banter. Not sure why you went on a complete rant on the back of it.
The truth hurts and how can you argue against what I said when the facts prove it. Most people always always say the same things about Trivium with the minority praising their recent work.
And its not a coincidence these changes happened when travis left, so Im not sure what I wrote that was so bad and justifited your silly overreaction.

Anyway Im out of here.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> Lewis, you quoted the post to attempt to derail what I posted and accomplish what exactly?
> 
> No value add, no discussion? Sad.
> 
> ...


You act as if everyone complaining hates this band like they're BVB and just "being haters" or some shit. If you'd read, you'd see a lot of them are fans who think this album is going to be bird cage liner.


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## lewis (Aug 25, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Are you serious right now? Typical of modern interactions from people who want the safety of an echo chamber. "Wahhhh he has opinions I don't like, silence him!" This pretty ridiculous dude, and the song was dog shit awful. I love Ascendancy and In Waves, and liked stuff in between, but the band doesn't know what the fuck they are doing. Every album is them trying to find something they can do now that they aren't 20 something. Being "the next Metallica" didn't work, so they tried being prob. Then they finally went back to being Trivium only to go, "nah, let's be a slightly personality void version of ourselves mixed with some Disturbed." Then, "nah let's do vibes rock that sort of attempts to cover it in a metal sheen." Then they decided nah again, and produced this steaming pile of feces. I have every album, and I am definitely skipping this fucking skid mark album.


Finally /\ some sense!!!!!

completely 100% agree.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2017)

Prog, not prob. Fuck off autocorrect. Vibey as well.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 25, 2017)

Bro that's fine. You also didn't shit on people for liking/being let down by something though. 

And as a fan of this, and several other bands that end up as "punching bags", it's just old hat. 

I guess that's my basic point. See In Flames. They get a ton of crap from fans of their older work. But you know what? The newer albums are still really good "to me". 

Anytime they release new material half a thread is just comments shitting on it, when I'm curious about changes in the writing process, or what new gear they may be using. 

It's not a "safe space" discussion, just a desire to trim the amount of worthless posts to see if anyone's posted something of actual interest. 

And it does sound like an All that Remains song - another band that I still like. So I'm probably still in the target audience of this. But it sure as hell doesn't sound like In Waves.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> Bro that's fine. You also didn't shit on people for liking/being let down by something though.
> 
> And as a fan of this, and several other bands that end up as "punching bags", it's just old hat.
> 
> ...


"And as a fan of this, and several other bands that end up as "punching bags", it's just old hat."

*Oh fucking WAH. I'm a fan of KISS and have been since I was 9. Imagine dealing with that shit in school. Give me a break.*

"Anytime they release new material half a thread is just comments shitting on it, when I'm curious about changes in the writing process, or what new gear they may be using."

*Oh, my... It's almost as if... people... like... have their own opinions, or something.*

"It's not a "safe space" discussion, just a desire to trim the amount of worthless posts to see if anyone's posted something of actual interest."

*It's not a dictatorship, just a desire to trim the unwanteds and lesser species from the human gene pool. <--- taking your logic to the ultimate fruition of such thinking. Yes, it's just music, that apparently you don't "want to see worthless posts and people shitting all over it" -- imagine again being a KISS fan -- but if you climb that logic ladder, you'll eventually end up in my version where I twisted your words around.*

"And it does sound like an All that Remains song - another band that I still like. So I'm probably still in the target audience of this. But it sure as hell doesn't sound like In Waves."

*You're damn right, it doesn't. In Waves is great; this is far from that. How about Trivium -- oh, I dunno -- just be Trivium? Is that too much to ask? It sure would be nice for a change.*


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## lewis (Aug 25, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> "And as a fan of this, and several other bands that end up as "punching bags", it's just old hat."
> 
> *Oh fucking WAH. I'm a fan of KISS and have been since I was 9. Imagine dealing with that shit in school. Give me a break.*
> 
> ...


 /Thread
Hahaha


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## Mathemagician (Aug 25, 2017)

Dude. Whose making fun of KISS? Kiss is awesome. They wrote radio rock and were damn good at it. Plus they put on a HELL of a live show. They weren't trying to push the boundaries of technical playing and never pretended to. 

I don't know, are you arguing with me? It's a thread on a band's album. I want to hear about that album. 

If people knock the album in other threads that's fine, but "everything they've done since XYZ" isn't even discussion material. 

"They changed after member ABC left and they lost me after that" is discussion material. 

Also why would anyone shit on kiss?!


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> Dude. Whose making fun of KISS? Kiss is awesome. They wrote radio rock and were damn good at it. Plus they put on a HELL of a live show. They weren't trying to push the boundaries of technical playing and never pretended to.
> 
> I don't know, are you arguing with me? It's a thread on a band's album. I want to hear about that album.
> 
> ...


Lots of people have made fun of KISS. Even KISS fans now put down KISS at this point; you should see some of the KISS forums and Facebook comments. My point was if you can't take the very weak, low level shit going on here, you must not have had to deal with being a KISS fan since the age of 9. Getting called words I can't even type here because it would get me banned for referencing something someone else called me, simply for liking a band, and being asked basically if I was a tranny, is a little more serious than, "Moooommmmmm, some people on the internet don't like the album I like." It's kinda sad, dude.

And you are "hearing about that album," both the good and the bad. If you want an echo chamber, here's a spoiler alert: You aren't gonna get it here.

"Why would anyone shit on KISS?" Uh, people have done it since the band started. They only got into the RNRHOF because the people who run the RNRHOF inducted enough people that like KISS to overrule the folks running it saying nay in a vote.

I'm not sure if you're incredibly young, or what, but here's a review from Washington state early in their career.


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## Unleash The Fury (Aug 25, 2017)

Its not that we want trivium to get their old sound back necessarily, we just want them to sound good. 

Theyre becoming like In Flames


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## Unleash The Fury (Aug 25, 2017)

Its not that we want trivium to get their old sound back necessarily, we just want them to sound good.

Theyre becoming like In Flames

Target audience you say?

The early fans of trivium have every right to feel betrayed and left behind because they are no longer the "target audience". The new target audience is just a way to make more money. Which is fine but again the older fans feel betrayed and with good reason. And that is perfect reason to shit all over their new garbage.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 25, 2017)

I'm nearly 30, so not quite Kiss's prime audience. 

Dude I jam pop music all the time. I know what whining is. 

I guess that's what I get for being lazy. I don't want to have to sift through 2+ pages of nothing to get to a new clip or see who is working on the album or w/e. 

But yeah, if people want to complain they're going to. No amount of asking "dude why bother" is going to change that. 

Also, sorry you got called names for liking hair metal. I've been around enough people that think "metal is evil" that that had to totally blow.


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## SD83 (Aug 26, 2017)

When did this "if you don't like it, why bother us with your opinion, gtfo!" start? It`s called "music discussion". You can't have discussion with just one opinion. If this would be a Trivium show, I'd get it, if you hate what they've become and pay money just to go there and bitch about how shitty they sound these days, that's rather stupid. You're a member of this forum and love the new song? This is the place to go and tell everyone about it. You're a member of this forum and hate the new song? This is the place to go and tell everyone about it. Maybe elaborate on why. 
@topic: I was suprised at how much I liked "The sin and the sentence". Trivium are one of those bands that I should have loved, at least some of the records, they had all the right elements, the songs were rather good, but except for "In waves" (the song, not the record), to me they were the kind of song you hear and forget about them the moment they're over. That, and I never was too fond of Matts cleans. "The sin and the sentence" though is amazing. Saw them last weekend, loved (almost) every second of it. The weakest spot are the cleans though (even more so live), and they are far weaker in the new song and there is nothing to contrast them with. Right now, I'd say the two new songs are 8/10 and 3/10 for me, I'm curious which direction the rest of the songs will go.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

SD83 said:


> Right now, I'd say the two new songs are 8/10 and 3/10 for me, I'm curious which direction the rest of the songs will go.


If these two tracks are anything to go by, probably all over the place.


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## lewis (Aug 26, 2017)

its really good to see my earlier opinions are being backed up by others in here. Suppressing opinions is ridiculous and part of the reason the modern world has no back bone.
I like the earlier comment about feeling betrayed by them. Thats exactly what camp im in. I literally loved, like played it so much the CD stopped working, the Ascendancy. I loved the riffs/music in Crusade but not the Metallica rip off vocals that Matt went for. Shogun was for me a perfect perfect follow up to Ascendancy whilst also moving with the times and being abit more current. Switch to 7 strings and lower tunings for example. Even their band image then, whilst slightly Dimebag rip off, even felt more cutting edge to me and that matched perfect with the sound that album had.

Then Travis left and from that we have seen poor decision after poor decision where the band flounders all over the place trying to find a sound that will keep them relevant, rather than just do the simple thing that would guarantee sales and exposure.
Ascendancy II. Matt seems too easily led or manipulated. Someone needs to sit him down and give him a massive pep talk and instill some confidence in the guy. Their first few albums were amazing then after that its like he thought "I need to change, I need to sound like Metallica or something". That didnt work then they worked with David from Disturbed and suddenly that record, his vocals and patterns were like a carbon copy of Disturbed. FFS man. Realise you are matt heafy, and this is trivium. We want matt heafy and trivium. I dont want no Metallica or Disturbed rip off crap and neither does the majority of metal fans judging by comments and feedback I see.

Its like they dont have faith in themselves anymore.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

I loved In Waves because it's the closest they'll ever get to Ascendancy II. The live in the studio videos they did got me really into Trivium again -- they seem incredibly intense in those videos -- and got my friend at the time REALLY into them as well. Just a side note: What the fuck was up with Heafy? He went from scrawny kid (Ascendancy), to fat faced and bulky (Crusade/Shogun) -- was he on steroids? -- to boney faced crackhead (In Waves). Maybe he became a vegetarian/vegan; fuck if I know. 

Anyways, then they did Treading Water Falls, but not only was it treading water, it was also coupled with shitty vocals. I agree with Lewis re: Crusade vocals. Shogun is alright, but I'll be honest: I think it's kind of overrated. Enjoyable, but overrated. The Silence in the Snow or whatever was interesting; definitely different, but not sure if that's a good or bad thing. I do know it didn't warrant a ton of listens like Ascendancy, Shogun, and In Waves, so I guess bad?


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## lewis (Aug 26, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I loved In Waves because it's the closest they'll ever get to Ascendancy II. The live in the studio videos they did got me really into Trivium again -- they seem incredibly intense in those videos -- and got my friend at the time REALLY into them as well. Just a side note: What the fuck was up with Heafy? He went from scrawny kid (Ascendancy), to fat faced and bulky (Crusade/Shogun) -- was he on steroids? -- to boney faced crackhead (In Waves). Maybe he became a vegetarian/vegan; fuck if I know.
> 
> Anyways, then they did Treading Water Falls, but not only was it treading water, it was also coupled with shitty vocals. I agree with Lewis re: Crusade vocals. Shogun is alright, but I'll be honest: I think it's kind of overrated. Enjoyable, but overrated. The Silence in the Snow or whatever was interesting; definitely different, but not sure if that's a good or bad thing. I do know it didn't warrant a ton of listens like Ascendancy, Shogun, and In Waves, so I guess bad?


you know what, I heard like 3 songs off In waves and never gave it a proper chance. Today I will listen to the entire album, with an open mind, and see what I think. Especially if you think it was the closest to Ascendancy II than anything else they put out.

yeah agreed on Heafy. I know he is big into his Martial Arts and leads a very very specific, regimented life style. (like everything always happens exactly at the same time every day type thing) but no idea how he made those physical changes. He does look ill these days lol. Like that Eminem change were suddenly he looks gaunt, and contoured. Like have they had Plastic surgery? haha


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

lewis said:


> you know what, I heard like 3 songs off In waves and never gave it a proper chance. Today I will listen to the entire album, with an open mind, and see what I think. Especially if you think it was the closest to Ascendancy II than anything else they put out.
> 
> yeah agreed on Heafy. I know he is big into his Martial Arts and leads a very very specific, regimented life style. (like everything always happens exactly at the same time every day type thing) but no idea how he made those physical changes. He does look ill these days lol. Like that Eminem change were suddenly he looks gaunt, and contoured. Like have they had Plastic surgery? haha


The entire album with bonus tracks is something like 18 tracks. And if I hadn't seen the live in the studio videos, I'm not sure if I would've been as hyped for the album.

As for Eminem, the Relapse look started after he OD'd, got clean, started running (I think he was in awful health and almost had some organ failure or some shit), and came back looking like he does for Relapse and Recovery. I love Relapse, by the way. I rate it third, but only because SSLP and MMLP1 have nostalgia. Otherwise Relapse/Refill win. The first verse of 3 AM, for instance, rhymes almost every other syllable, but it's in a rather complex way with multiple syllabic rhymes going on at a time. Then shit like Medicine Ball, Stay Wide Awake, Underground, and Insane are full of some of the most fucked up shit he's ever said. It's his most "horrorcore" album, which the first two albums are considered. I think this is those times about 4; everything is along the lines of, "And if it's not a rapper I make it as, I'ma be a fucking rapist in a Jason mask" and "Shit, you probably think I'm in your tape deck now; I'm in the back seat of your truck with duct tape stretched out, ducked the fuck way down, waitin' to straight jump out, put it over your mouth, and grab you by the face — what now?"

Also, to reviews that whined that Relapse is "not Slim Shady cuz it's not funny." Yeah, you're right; it's not Slim Shady. It's Rain Man, you fucking idiots. The album is fucking hysterical; then again, maybe I have a fucked up sense of humor. Lastly, no one noticed, but Eminem makes a reference to having sex on tape with Dr Dre. Very sly, Em, ya clever bastard.


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## lewis (Aug 26, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> The entire album with bonus tracks is something like 18 tracks. And if I hadn't seen the live in the studio videos, I'm not sure if I would've been as hyped for the album.
> 
> As for Eminem, the Relapse look started after he OD'd, got clean, started running (I think he was in awful health and almost had some organ failure or some shit), and came back looking like he does for Relapse and Recovery. I love Relapse, by the way. I rate it third, but only because SSLP and MMLP1 have nostalgia. Otherwise Relapse/Refill win. The first verse of 3 AM, for instance, rhymes almost every other syllable, but it's in a rather complex way with multiple syllabic rhymes going on at a time. Then shit like Medicine Ball, Stay Wide Awake, Underground, and Insane are full of some of the most fucked up shit he's ever said. It's his most "horrorcore" album, which the first two albums are considered. I think this is those times about 4; everything is along the lines of, "And if it's not a rapper I make it as, I'ma be a fucking rapist in a Jason mask" and "Shit, you probably think I'm in your tape deck now; I'm in the back seat of your truck with duct tape stretched out, ducked the fuck way down, waitin' to straight jump out, put it over your mouth, and grab you by the face — what now?"
> 
> Also, to reviews that whined that Relapse is "not Slim Shady cuz it's not funny." Yeah, you're right; it's not Slim Shady. It's Rain Man, you fucking idiots. The album is fucking hysterical; then again, maybe I have a fucked up sense of humor. Lastly, no one noticed, but Eminem makes a reference to having sex on tape with Dr Dre. Very sly, Em, ya clever bastard.



That is the perfect Eminem description!. I agree too. I would put my top 3 as MMLP, Relapse then SSLP but thats just me haha.
Im going to do In waves in full then Relapse now we have talked about them haha


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

lewis said:


> That is the perfect Eminem description!. I agree too. I would put my top 3 as MMLP, Relapse then SSLP but thats just me haha.
> Im going to do In waves in full then Relapse now we have talked about them haha


Good. Haha.

By the way, Encore from the point he does the song Rain Man to the end of Relapse is Rain Man for the most part. 

@0:56


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## StrmRidr (Aug 26, 2017)

All I have to add to this discussion is that In Waves is amazing and anyone who never gave it a chance really have to. There are some great riffs throughout the entire album, and I agree that it is the closest they have been to Ascendancy.


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## lewis (Aug 26, 2017)

StrmRidr said:


> All I have to add to this discussion is that In Waves is amazing and anyone who never gave it a chance really have to. There are some great riffs throughout the entire album, and I agree that it is the closest they have been to Ascendancy.


checking it out now properly for the first time in full. So far so good


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## lewis (Aug 26, 2017)

Caustic are the ties that bind, is the most Ascendancy sounding song yet off this album. Excellent stuff. So they proved they can do it?, why the hell are all their albums not like this?.


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## lewis (Aug 26, 2017)

ok just finished in waves. Brilliant album. I would put it 3rd personally. I still prefer Shogun but its incredibly fine margins!.


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## StrmRidr (Aug 26, 2017)

lewis said:


> ok just finished in waves. Brilliant album. I would put it 3rd personally. I still prefer Shogun but its incredibly fine margins!.



I love the vibe on In Waves. Every song works extremely well with each other. I mean it's their band, they can do whatever they want, but knowing that they are capable of writing stuff like their first albums up to In Waves (sue me I like The Crusade), and then you compare that with the stuff they have been putting out recently, it is quite disappointing.


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## Unleash The Fury (Aug 26, 2017)

No talk of Embers to Inferno? My favorite song from them is If i Could Collapse the Masses.

And if i think they should get back to that sound then i guess i do want them to make another Embers of ascendancy.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

Unleash The Fury said:


> No talk of Embers to Inferno? My favorite song from them is If i Could Collapse the Masses.
> 
> And if i think they should get back to that sound then i guess i do want them to make another Embers of ascendancy.


Is the re-release worth checking out?


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## Unleash The Fury (Aug 26, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is the re-release worth checking out?



I havent myself. I look at that $20 proce tag or whatever it is and im like .......ooof


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

Unleash The Fury said:


> I havent myself. I look at that $20 proce tag or whatever it is and im like .......ooof


It's on Apple Music, and I'm sure Spotify and similar services have it as well.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 26, 2017)

Personally, I did not enjoy Ember to Inferno much. I didn't listen to it "back then" so I don't have nostalgia for it either. However, you can hear how early they were and can tell it's them, just without song structures that are that complex yet. YMMV. I'd check out some tracks before committing to the full sticker price.

However after going back and listening to the Crusade a few years back, it's one of my favorite albums of theirs. The riffs are SO good, but the solos really shine and the song (Anthem I think it is?) with the gang vocals is so fun to listen to while working out/driving.

Once I got over the lack of screaming I felt that I'd be overly harsh on it back when it released. - like originally I had given it one listen and then got angry at them for "changing".

I was so butt hurt I skipped Shogun and didn't come back until in Waves was already out. Dude - both of those albums kill for totally different reasons.

I zoned out and picked up Vengeance Falls and The Crusade again around the same time and found a lot to like. But it (obviously) wasn't In Waves pt2.

In a lot of interviews of them that I've seen, after their first drummer left they seem pretty flippant about their drummers - like "whatever, wonder how long this guy will last" though it may have just been machismo after losing their what 3rd Drummer? It seems like disagreements with drummers over their "sound" is what's caused them to leave?

It's obviously "good" to someone, since their sales seem to be increasing and they were charting a lot with Silence In the Snow's singles when it released.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 26, 2017)

Edit: Double Post


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> Personally, I did not enjoy Ember to Inferno much. I didn't listen to it "back then" so I don't have nostalgia for it either. However, you can hear how early they were and can tell it's them, just without song structures that are that complex yet. YMMV. I'd check out some tracks before committing to the full sticker price.
> 
> However after going back and listening to the Crusade a few years back, it's one of my favorite albums of theirs. The riffs are SO good, but the solos really shine and the song (Anthem I think it is?) with the gang vocals is so fun to listen to while working out/driving.
> 
> ...


I hated the "OMGZ NEXT METALLURCAZ!1'1" coverage around the time of release. Guitar World's coverage was disgusting and hearing Heafy and Beaulieu talk in that interview made me want to wretch, but I still checked it out. Heafy's poor mans Hetfield was subpar and seemed like an obvious attempt to produce the next Black Album. Problem was that Metallica's attempt wasn't calculated, other than the fact they wanted to be less prog in regards to arrangements. Also, during this time, every time Trivium was featured in articles, Heafy was circle jerking himself and giving himself reach around about Metallica. 

It was just a symptom of a problem all bands face these days. In the 60s through to the 80s, bands had obvious influences, though some not so obvious, and they generally had about 10 or so bands to draw this influence from. How they blended that musical soup ended up being moderately original in most cases, and was a great starting point to evolve from. However, in the 90s, due to the bands and their attitudes towards certain trends, began to wittle down the influence pool a band would have from ten to much less than that, to the point that bands from 2000 onwards sometimes maybe had 3-4 influences, and in some cases, were totally ripping off past bands. Seeing Trivium do this was repulsive, and obnoxious. As well as totally unnecessary, by the way. 

Ever since, they've tried to go back to being Trivium on the one hand, while attempting not to on the other hand, and ending up with pretty schizophrenic, bipolar releases. Vengeance Falls was alright, but it didn't warrant too many listens from me as I found the riffs to sort of just be coasting. It wasn't like when I heard Ascendancy and In Waves and wanted to look up tabs to learn ideas and riffs. It was just "here's generic semi-Trivium sequence riff number 1, 2, 3, solo" and so on. I also prefer when Trivium plays in drop D or a variation thereof because it seems the most like Trivium, rather than some other band writing a Trivium song featuring guest vocals from Heafy.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

By the way, Silence seemed a lot like Shogun, but with a production aesthetic that seemed heavily influenced by Children of Bodom's Halo of Blood. They both kind of have that cold, dry tone to them.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> In a lot of interviews of them that I've seen, after their first drummer left they seem pretty flippant about their drummers - like "whatever, wonder how long this guy will last" though it may have just been machismo after losing their what 3rd Drummer? It seems like disagreements with drummers over their "sound" is what's caused them to leave?


I just looked, and Trivium is on their fifth drummer at this point. Holy fucking hell.

In Waves/Vengeance Falls was Augusto. Snow was Madiro, they had someone in between, and Sin is Alex Bent.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 26, 2017)

Woooooow. I didn't know Madiro was already out. Jesus. One of their drummers was their prior drum tech. I think around in Waves. However, he may have just filled in for a tour.


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## StrmRidr (Oct 16, 2017)

New song released today. I like it a lot more than the previous one.


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## The Mirror (Oct 16, 2017)

Does anyone else feel that the dynamics in that song are mixed very weird? Like in nonexistent. 

Hope it's just a problem with the youtube upload.


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## Blytheryn (Oct 16, 2017)

StrmRidr said:


> New song released today. I like it a lot more than the previous one.




Loving the trem picking trend in these songs.


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## RoRo56 (Oct 19, 2017)

I got to listen to the album a good few times and I'm really, really digging it. In my eyes it's a mix of the best parts of Shogun, In Waves and Silence In The Snow. They seem more focused all round and Alex Bent's drumming seems to have inspired them.


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## RoRo56 (Oct 19, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> In a lot of interviews of them that I've seen, after their first drummer left they seem pretty flippant about their drummers - like "whatever, wonder how long this guy will last" though it may have just been machismo after losing their what 3rd Drummer? It seems like disagreements with drummers over their "sound" is what's caused them to leave?



I think things had been going well with Nick after the first drummer left but they ended up clashing personality wise. After seeing them live with Madiro it was obvious that he was out of his depth especially with the faster songs. The guy that filled in then; Wandtke, was a better performer but after seeing them live he looked a bit too stiff and lacked groove. I think he also loved having the spotlight on himself as well, which might not have gone down well. 

IIRC they had been recommended Alex Bent as a drummer a few years ago but they didn't want to poach him from the band he was already in at the time. He's completely spot on live and it was the best Trivium performance I'd ever seen (even if it was his very first show with them!) He's a humble dude too and I'd like to think he's in it for the long haul.


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## SD83 (Oct 19, 2017)

The Mirror said:


> Does anyone else feel that the dynamics in that song are mixed very weird? Like in nonexistent.
> 
> Hope it's just a problem with the youtube upload.


I was hoping I'm not the only one  I'm not a fan of that mix at all. The song isn't too bad (though I still don't like most of Matt's cleans. Sounds like he's either bored or has to concentrate way too hard to get it right), but the mix is just aweful.


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## MFB (Oct 20, 2017)

'Betrayer' definitely got fucked over by Youtube's compressor, it's much better on the album. 

I'm on the 7th track now, I'd say this is probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite Trivium album, which isn't saying much given that I missed anything between this and Shogun; but still, out of their 8, this is definitely in upper echelon.


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## cwhitey2 (Oct 20, 2017)

That mix


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## StrmRidr (Oct 20, 2017)

This album is miles ahead of the last two. Also, Alex Bent is a monster.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Oct 20, 2017)

This album's extremely good, contender for my favourite by them. Even the more boring radio-friendly tracks (i.e. The Heart From Your Hate) sound much more favourable when they're there as a respite from the blistering stuff around them rather than being the main event themselves.

Certainly stands toe-to-toe with Shogun and In Waves IMO, arguably better than Shogun (which has a badass feel and a lot of shred, but not many particularly exciting lyrics or song structures. Even most of the riffs are pretty easy to play)

edit: the mix is great, Betrayer definitely got screwed by YT compression


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## MFB (Oct 20, 2017)

I find the THFYF getting stuck in my head without even realizing I was thinking about it, the only song that didn't immediately jump at me was Beauty in the Sorrow


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## StrmRidr (Oct 20, 2017)

MFB said:


> I find the THFYF getting stuck in my head without even realizing I was thinking about it, the only song that didn't immediately jump at me was Beauty in the Sorrow



I agree regarding The Heart From Your Hate. I absolutely hated it when it first came out but hearing it in the context of the album kind of gives you a new perspective on it.


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## MFB (Oct 20, 2017)

Revisited Ember to Inferno today after this one, I think it's safe to say this is #2 for me from them. So, in order: Shogun, The Sin and The Sentence, Ascendancy, Crusade, Ember to Infero (either order for #4/5, but that seems appropriate for right now) then the rest can be jumbled around since I didn't really care about them


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## setsuna7 (Oct 20, 2017)

Wretchedness. that breakdown. heavy as fuck!!! can't get over it. my favorite at the moment.

at 2:47 onwards. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## Captain Shoggoth (Oct 21, 2017)

StrmRidr said:


> I agree regarding The Heart From Your Hate. I absolutely hated it when it first came out but hearing it in the context of the album kind of gives you a new perspective on it.



i agree entirely, it works in the album. I didn't like it when it first dropped but I don't skip it now. Beauty in the Sorrow is the only track that's not quite landing for me-makes me laugh how it'd easily be one of the more progressive/tonally interesting tracks on their last two records but is a snorer on this one. Beyond Oblivion and The Revanchist might be my favourites.



setsuna7 said:


> Wretchedness. that breakdown. heavy as fuck!!! can't get over it. my favorite at the moment.
> 
> at 2:47 onwards. <iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>




yeah, i wasn't really keen on the demo of this that Matt made public a few years ago but the album version KILLS. lyrics are much better and the chorus is absolutely brilliant


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 21, 2017)

I like the album, prob one of my faves next to ember to inferno or shogun so far.


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## zarg (Oct 21, 2017)

loving the new record, finally trivium is back after the last album being only "meh". This really makes me want to pick up a 7 now.


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## manu80 (Oct 21, 2017)

wow, just listened to it this afternoon, and yeah, I like the previous ones (waves and snow) but this one brings the aggressivity they were lacking recently. great riffing.
Just can't get used to Heaffy looking always angry on pic of the band but it's ok


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 21, 2017)

At present, I find the album to be just okay. Isn't knocking Ascendancy and In Waves out as my favorites, that's for sure. Not a bad record, but not a great one either.


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## Unleash The Fury (Oct 21, 2017)

So far this album sounds very good. So much better than last one. They are headinf in the right direction


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## Gravy Train (Oct 23, 2017)

Listened to this all weekend. I think it is an absolute slammer of an album. Definitely a good mix of what they have done in the past whilst incorporating newer elements. Very solid and will continue listening.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 23, 2017)

So much better than the last album. I enjoyed but it was to simplistic and the songs absolutely died live. I've never seen a crowd go from circle pit to yawning so quick. They really stepped it up on this album and the new drummer ads so much. 

This is my favourite track, getting some big Amorphis vibes from it.


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## RoRo56 (Oct 23, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> So much better than the last album. I enjoyed but it was to simplistic and the songs absolutely died live. I've never seen a crowd go from circle pit to yawning so quick.




Were you at the show in Dublin when they passed through recently? I honestly thought they got a good reaction to the Snow songs. Obviously not as mosh heavy but it felt like everyone was singing along! Myself included (even though I didn't enjoy the album)


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## StrmRidr (Oct 24, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> So much better than the last album. I enjoyed but it was to simplistic and the songs absolutely died live. I've never seen a crowd go from circle pit to yawning so quick. They really stepped it up on this album and the new drummer ads so much.
> 
> This is my favourite track, getting some big Amorphis vibes from it.




Part of that song reminds me of Lamb of God, especially when the heavy guitar kicks in at the beginning. I've listened to the album about 10 times now and I can confirm that it is up there with Shogun and In Waves for me.


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 24, 2017)

StrmRidr said:


> Part of that song reminds me of Lamb of God, especially when the heavy guitar kicks in at the beginning. I've listened to the album about 10 times now and I can confirm that it is up there with Shogun and In Waves for me.


yeah I'm getting a big LoG vibe from that opening riff


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## electriceye (Oct 31, 2017)

Absolutley LOVING this album. Honestly the only song I don't care for is Endless night. It's just a corny rock song that should have been left out.

However, the rest of it is incredible. Alex Bent blows me away. Other than Richard Christy (Death, Charred Walls of the Damned), he's one of the top drummers on the planet for me right now. Watch his YouTube playthroughs for this album. He's sick. I really hope he lasts more than one album. https://www.youtube.com/user/DrummerAlexBent 

Looking forward to their show in NYC next week, along with finally getting to see Jeff Loomis.


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## JD27 (Oct 31, 2017)

Picked up the new album this week without much hope, but I have really enjoyed it so far. I think it is the best thing they have done since Shogun. It's kind of a blend of the older and newer Trivium. New drummer is really solid too, easily the best they have ever had.


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## MFB (Oct 31, 2017)

Man, even on his Betrayer playthrough, that songs mix gets royally fucked by YT's compression


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## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 31, 2017)

I've got a few listens in, and so far, a great pickup from the last album. Songwriting is a lot stronger too, combining the best parts of all their past efforts. I've also noticed that in some of the harmony parts either eschew the rhythm guitar a la Maiden, while others they're present. It's an interesting choice for dynamic effect that I've noticed here more than any Trivium album. Maybe it's just me...


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## JD27 (Oct 31, 2017)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> I've got a few listens in, and so far, a great pickup from the last album. Songwriting is a lot stronger too, combining the best parts of all their past efforts. I've also noticed that in some of the harmony parts either eschew the rhythm guitar a la Maiden, while others they're present. It's an interesting choice for dynamic effect that I've noticed here more than any Trivium album. Maybe it's just me...



4:37 of The Revanchist is straight up Maiden harmony.


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## Nicki (Nov 3, 2017)

I checked out the whole album... I found it really boring. I dug the hell out of Shogun and loved the technicality of it, but since then, they've been really lacking for me especially when Trivium made a Disturbed album.


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## BusinessMan (Nov 3, 2017)

I love this record my dudes. There are some killer songs on it. It seems that there are two songs that give a nod to each of there albums (meaning two songs in the style of the crusade, two in the style of shigun, two from vengeance etc.). That's how it seems to me. It's a killer record


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## zarg (Nov 3, 2017)

I love the album, after a lot of listens its still awesome. I need to get my hands on a better version of the rerecorded pillars though, that has potential to be the best song on the record for me. LIKE DAMN IT SOUNDS SICK!


edit: it is the best song on the album for me.


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## PunkBillCarson (Nov 6, 2017)

Love the new album. So long as they don't make another Vengeance Falls...


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## The Mirror (Nov 6, 2017)

I still don't know. 

The fact that the rerecording of Pillars is by far the best thing I've heard in this thread doesn't really speak for the new record to me.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 13, 2017)

meh


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## zarg (Nov 13, 2017)

yeah the shred wars isn't the greatest, I liked stevie t the most....

sadly the pillars on youtube got removed and I can't find the rerecorded version anywhere


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## BusinessMan (Nov 14, 2017)

PunkBillCarson said:


> Love the new album. So long as they don't make another Vengeance Falls...



Vengeance wasn't everyone's cup of tea sure, but i loved the album (it was actually the album that got me into trivium). But i also really enjoy listening to disturbed so I suppose I may be a bit biased


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## PunkBillCarson (Nov 14, 2017)

I'll put it this way: When I rank Trivium albums, I don't even put Vengeance Falls anywhere.


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## electriceye (Nov 14, 2017)

BusinessMan said:


> Vengeance wasn't everyone's cup of tea sure, but i loved the album (it was actually the album that got me into trivium). But i also really enjoy listening to disturbed so I suppose I may be a bit biased



That album is GREAT. Can't understand why/how anyone doesn't like it. So many great songs, IMO. Older trivium fans are very....weird about this band. Drives me nuts. 

BTW, saw them live in NYC a couple of weeks ago. Phenomenal show. Bent really raises the bar for this band, where they should be, and I hope he stays. They're so tight, you can tell how much work they put into things. I just wish they played for more than 1:15. I have zero interest in Arch Enemy, despite loving Jeff Loomis. I left 3 songs into their set that night. Can't take the vocals.


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## The Mirror (Nov 15, 2017)

electriceye said:


> Can't understand why/how anyone doesn't like it.



Personally, I got into Trivium because of the progressive elements. I came from bands like DT and Opeth and loved me some good old Thrash, too (especially the more proggy records like AJFA and Rust in Peace).

So my favourite Trivium songs always were stuff like Declaration, The Crusade titletrack and basically the entirety of Shogun. Then came In Waves, which was very much a hit and miss record for me. Way to many by-numbers songs. And Vengeance was a full blown straight modern-metal record. Not a single song that even slightly exceeded the 6 minute mark.

So that was it for me and they never got me back in. If I hear another fantastic long instrumental track or a 10 minute monster from them I might just check them out again.


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 15, 2017)

electriceye said:


> That album is GREAT. Can't understand why/how anyone doesn't like it. So many great songs, IMO. Older trivium fans are very....weird about this band. Drives me nuts



Since their albums are so different and the genre jump a lot it leaves fans very divided. I loved Vengeance Falls and its the only album I liked start to finish since Ascendancy. Shogun is a big fan favourite but I've never gotten into it and would be quite low on my list.


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