# High dollar well received amps that disappointed



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

Go!


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 2, 2019)

Certainly no one will say the Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet as it is the perfect amp for everyone always.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 2, 2019)

I got it used for a steal, but an early run 3 channel Triple Recto. I spent months and months with it and couldn't get the sound i wanted, vs the 5150II i had next to it that i could dial in a minute flat.


----------



## technomancer (Aug 2, 2019)

Eh this stuff is all a matter of taste for the most part. That said if there is one thing people love it is bitching on the internet so this thread should go well after the Bogner thread 

Personally I wasn't very impressed by the ENGL SE I had for a while


----------



## narad (Aug 2, 2019)

technomancer said:


> Eh this stuff is all a matter of taste for the most part. That said if there is one thing people love it is bitching on the internet so this thread should go well after the Bogner thread
> 
> Personally I wasn't very impressed by the ENGL SE I had for a while



Jeez, I can get a nearly perfect to my tastes death metal tone out of it. 6L6 or EL34?

(Honestly these shouldn't be two separate models.. annoying)


----------



## technomancer (Aug 2, 2019)

narad said:


> Jeez, I can get a nearly perfect to my tastes death metal tone out of it. 6L6 or EL34?
> 
> (Honestly these shouldn't be two separate models.. annoying)



6L6... it wasn't bad by any means, like I said all a matter of preference. Add to that that I had to have it repaired shortly after I got it and that it was really susceptible to RF interference and decided to move it on.


----------



## laxu (Aug 2, 2019)

*Friedman BE-50 Deluxe*. I didn't feel it was worth the extra money over the Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL I bought. The Bogner had a better master volume, more usable range of gain and better clean channel. Overdrive comes down to whether you prefer old school or modern. I felt that I had no reason to go beyond the BE channel on the Friedman and the HBE was just too high gain for me. Now that doesn't make it a bad amp, just not the amp for me.

*Diezel Einstein*. Its channel setup is in short just bad. On the first channel you need to decide if you want clean, OD or high gain rhythm. This is not footswitchable without mods. Channel 2 is strictly high gain and using lower gain tubes did nothing to fix this, I had all the gain I would ever need with the gain at 10 o'clock. It's a great sounding amp otherwise.

Most ENGLs haven't been my thing either. To me it's a waste to have 4 individual channels if only the high gain ones actually sound good.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 2, 2019)

VHT Pittbull UL. I tried and tried to like the amp, but it just isn't my thing. Too much low end, it felt too dry and stiff even with gain cranked quite high. I liked the low mid growl though


----------



## laxu (Aug 2, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> VHT Pittbull UL. I tried and tried to like the amp, but it just isn't my thing. Too much low end, it felt too dry and stiff even with gain cranked quite high. I liked the low mid growl though



I like that amp for metal rhythm playing but absolutely nothing else. Too stiff and dry.


----------



## protest (Aug 2, 2019)

I like everything


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Aug 2, 2019)

+1 on the Diezel Einstein. Never owned one, but I couldn’t get a useable death metal tone inside an hour of messing with it.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

The TC-50 frustrated me to no end. I loved the tone, but it lacked the "oomph" i wanted. I tried everything (eq pedals in the loop, boosts, different power tubes, etc.), but I couldn't get it to sound the way I wanted to. 

I then tried the TC100, and while it was a huge improvement in that department, I could not get over the noise from the fan. I must have been crazy sensitive to it, because I couldn't stop hearing it, even at louder volumes. I wanted to unplug it, but Mess soldered it to the board. Gerrrrr.....


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> VHT Pittbull UL. I tried and tried to like the amp, but it just isn't my thing. Too much low end, it felt too dry and stiff even with gain cranked quite high. I liked the low mid growl though


I've always wanted to try one.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I got it used for a steal, but an early run 3 channel Triple Recto. I spent months and months with it and couldn't get the sound i wanted, vs the 5150II i had next to it that i could dial in a minute flat.


Those early 3 channel triples sound like crap until you crank them to 11. I remember trying one for the first time and thinking it sounded like my practice amp sitting right next to it, but only bigger. It was like a fuzz box on steroids, lol!

I don't think I'll ever get over how easy it is to dial in a 5150 at any volume, especially compared to a recto, which actually is one of my my favorite amps of all time. In fact, I'm currently on the prowl for a Tremoverb or Roadster.


----------



## cardinal (Aug 2, 2019)

When it comes to most gear, but particularly amps and effects, I think most of the recordings we all love were done with pretty readily available stuff. In the '80s it was just a lot of boosted stock Marshalls, the ADA preamp, and Mark IIIs. In the 90s and into today, lots of the Recto and 5150. 

The big spender amps can sound great, but I think there's a lot of room for disappointment with all of them because you get them next to one of those classic set ups, and suddenly you're questioning why on earth you spent so much money and time tracking down to high-dollar boutique unobtainum thing when the damn $500 5150 sounds better.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

cardinal said:


> When it comes to most gear, but particularly amps and effects, I think most of the recordings we all love were done with pretty readily available stuff. In the '80s it was just a lot of boosted stock Marshalls, the ADA preamp, and Mark IIIs. In the 90s and into today, lots of the Recto and 5150.
> 
> The big spender amps can sound great, but I think there's a lot of room for disappointment with all of them because you get them next to one of those classic set ups, and suddenly you're questioning why on earth you spent so much money and time tracking down to high-dollar boutique unobtainum thing when the damn $500 5150 sounds better.


So true!


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 2, 2019)

laxu said:


> I like that amp for metal rhythm playing but absolutely nothing else. Too stiff and dry.


I didn't even really like it for rhythm playing.


sevenfoxes said:


> I've always wanted to try one.


mine is for sale lol
pm if you're interested


----------



## Necky379 (Aug 2, 2019)

For me I’ve always enjoyed experimenting with different sounds. I’ve got nothing against super expensive boutique amps but I would rather play around with 5 1k amps than 1 5k amp. At the end of the day I too prefer my old 5150 over anything else I’ve tried so far. I’m fine with “basic” most of the time. I’ve got some gear in my collection that is rare, some one offs but the gear that gets used the most is just basic, inexpensive stuff that’s familiar. I like my 5150, MP-1’s, AA & Z cymbals, EMG’s, Boss/MXR pedals etc.


----------



## PuriPuriPrisoner (Aug 2, 2019)

Diezel Herbert. I’ve always wanted one since I started playing a decade ago and managed to get a mk2 recently for a decent price. I hated it 90% of the time. Without any pedals, it was way too flubby, had an over abundance of low mids, and not enough top end for my taste. A savage drive in the front and a 10 band eq in the loop got rid of most of my problems with the amp but there was always this very faint fuzzy sound associated with the poweramp that I could never dial out. It made it almost sound like a digital amp sim. I ended up selling it recently for a bit of profit so that was nice. Never meet your heroes I guess.


----------



## Fred the Shred (Aug 2, 2019)

So that we're on the same page, what is "high dollar" here?


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 2, 2019)

protest said:


> I like everything


"Oh my little protest was always such a good eater.... "


----------



## budda (Aug 2, 2019)

Fred the Shred said:


> So that we're on the same page, what is "high dollar" here?



Kids who dont have bills bought it? Haha.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 2, 2019)

sevenfoxes said:


> Those early 3 channel triples sound like crap until you crank them to 11. I remember trying one for the first time and thinking it sounded like my practice amp sitting right next to it, but only bigger. It was like a fuzz box on steroids, lol



I had a Torpedo Live so I had the ability to crank it to the sweet spot. I just wasn't a fan of the voicing. A lot of the classic Recto sounds I dig are mostly from the early run of 1991 - 1996 Rectos, and IIRC the 2000 - 2009 3-channel Rectos sound nothing like those.

EDIT: I actually briefly owned a Single Recto I got in a trade. I sold it because I needed the money, but I liked it more than the Triple Recto.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

Fred the Shred said:


> So that we're on the same page, what is "high dollar" here?


I personally consider around 2k and up to be high dollar.


----------



## DudeManBrother (Aug 2, 2019)

Engl Powerball 100 and Invader 100 both underwhelmed me. I will admit that the seemingly cheap ass construction made me really critical. They both moved pretty quickly to guys that thoroughly seemed to enjoy them so I was happy about that. 

The most disappointing boutique amp was definitely the Fuchs Mantis for me. It was flubby, slightly boxy, and the bass was so damn loose. It was very underwhelming. It was handwired so there was no psychological snobbery working against it either  I’m sure a lot of my issues would’ve been solved with an EQ and boost; but I could get that tone from my Archon without pedals.


----------



## protest (Aug 2, 2019)

The906 said:


> "Oh my little protest was always such a good eater.... "



What's sad about this is that 1)it's true and 2) my mom has basically said this verbatim to people


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 2, 2019)

Fred the Shred said:


> So that we're on the same page, what is "high dollar" here?



Here? More than a used 5150.


----------



## budda (Aug 2, 2019)

sevenfoxes said:


> I personally consider around 2k and up to be high dollar.



USD? CAD? £?


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

budda said:


> USD? CAD? £?


USD


----------



## Thaeon (Aug 2, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Here? More than a used 5150.



That basically means anything that isn't a used 5150...

My biggest disappointments have been the Marshall JVM, every Engl I've played with the exception of the Preamps, every Diezel I've played (Herbert and VH4), and Mesa JP2C (REALLY honky mids). VHT Pitbulls sound really good, but aren't useful to me.


----------



## protest (Aug 2, 2019)

budda said:


> USD? CAD? £?



The one that matters canuck


----------



## Fred the Shred (Aug 2, 2019)

Right, so I'll use the rough equivalent in EUR, which is 1800. Factual stuff first:
- Old Mesas. I LOVE the tones to death, and my MkII is just a lovely amp, as are all Marks really. I had a horrible road record with them in the days of Furman as the power conditioning kings. They still gave me frequent issues on the road, with one gig in the middle of Poland resulting in both the main Dual Rec and its spare deciding that it would be great to blow fuses, their replacements, and die on me. I'll never forgive the company for forcing me to do that gig with a bloody Marshall JCM 900 Dual Reverb. My hatred for that amp is eternal. It was also amazing to try to buy fuses when you can't even say "electronics shop" in Polish.

Mk III decided that it shouldn't really stop at blowing the fuse when it could offer people a free pyrotechnics show and that was the end of the line for me gigging them for years. I have heard nothing pertaining similar issues (typically tied to the old output transformers) regarding newer amps (read: for decades now), so fear not.

Subjective stuff:
I'm really a try-before-you-buy guy so there's that saving me from splurging a ton of cash into stuff I won't dig, so this is based on several experiences, from giving amps a good once over live or testing them in favourable conditions.
- Riveras. Nope. Just nope. I can't jive with them for the life of me.
- Bogner Uberschall - it's a solid amp. It was just worse for what I envision for metal tones than any modern take of the Ecstacy, and I was really quite disappointed in that one and how hard it was to keep its flatulence in check. Definitely not my cup of tea.
- VHT Pitbull - another of those amps that was going super hard back in the pre-Fryette days. Their rep preceded them, people saw them as unobtnanium in these parts. Those things were the pinacle of US sound, with power and refinement beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. As my musical adventures progressed, I finally ended face to face with the unicorn. Upon connecting my guitar to its fabled horn, I expected to fart angel dust upon striking the first chord. Many chords later, with a lot of meedly meedlies thrown in, my farts were as mudane as ever. It was a fortunate coincidence, as I didn't find the amp to be some sort of glorious thing I needed to have, so... meh.
- ENGL SE - bla bla, 12039120391 features, supposed to eat the old 120 alive, bla bla bla. Plugged in, tweaked the thing, ended up sounding absolutely glorious. None of the new features were on when I finished my experiments and I stuck with the Savage 120 I used for years on end.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 2, 2019)

Fred the Shred said:


> So that we're on the same page, what is "high dollar" here?



I personally draw the baseline at USD2k. For most Americans, a living monthly wage. Gear that would require a lot of effort for most of us to get the coin to obtain.


----------



## efiltsohg (Aug 2, 2019)

Any Marshall that isn't a JCM 800


----------



## Bearitone (Aug 2, 2019)

Unlike pedals, most high dollar amps I’ve tried delivered (Quickrod, Satan, Dual Recto, EVH, Dual Dark). Only the Uberschall was a little disappointing. It sounded good but, a little under par compared to a Dual Rec or 6505. 

Who knows though, i only tried it in store.


----------



## cardinal (Aug 2, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I had a Torpedo Live so I had the ability to crank it to the sweet spot. I just wasn't a fan of the voicing. A lot of the classic Recto sounds I dig are mostly from the early run of 1991 - 1996 Rectos, and IIRC the 2000 - 2009 3-channel Rectos sound nothing like those.
> 
> EDIT: I actually briefly owned a Single Recto I got in a trade. I sold it because I needed the money, but I liked it more than the Triple Recto.



I really struggled with a non-multiwatt Triple also. It was soooo close to sounding good, but I could never figure out just how to turn the dials or flip the switches to get it right. Just a bit too bright and fizzy yet not really tight and too boomy. The multiwatt and the 2-channel are nearly idiot proof. I swear I could turn the knobs blind folded and would probably be OK with the tone as long as there's an OD808 out front.


----------



## MFB (Aug 2, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> Any Marshall that isn't a JCM 800



_*laughs in DSL2000*_


----------



## Gmork (Aug 2, 2019)

Twin jet, and almost liked my dual recto but nah. I kept my 6505


----------



## Spinedriver (Aug 2, 2019)

Sadly, the most expensive amp I've ever bought was a Randall T2 and I loved it. lol... 
On the other hand, the most expensive PEDALS that I bought that just didn't quite jibe with would have to be the Mesa V-Twin that ( for me) just didn't have enough gain to it. The other is the Bogner Ecstacy Red which isn't absolutely horrible but it's not even in the top 10 of drive pedals I've owned.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

Gmork said:


> Twin jet, and almost liked my dual recto but nah. I kept my 6505


You didn't like the recto, eh?


----------



## gunch (Aug 2, 2019)

who even likes Uberschalls anyways I've never seen a good word about it


----------



## Spinedriver (Aug 2, 2019)

gunch said:


> who even likes Uberschalls anyways I've never seen a good word about it



If I recall correctly, back in '07-'09 they were kinda popular for a hot minute.


----------



## DudeManBrother (Aug 2, 2019)

gunch said:


> who even likes Uberschalls anyways I've never seen a good word about it


I love my Rev Blue. It’s got a thick aggressive low end and sits in the Dual Recto territory tonally, but is tighter and less fizzy at decent volume. It doesn’t need a boost but takes one well. I like to turn it up loud and dial the gain very conservatively; and get a crushing tone with pick attack. 

I also wonder what tunings people use. That probably goes a long way in which amps people love or hate. I play 90% of time in D standard on 6, and B or up 1/2 step C standard on 7. I bet tuning lower would change my amp collection quite a bit.


----------



## rokket2005 (Aug 2, 2019)

When I got my ecstacy and vh4 I was disappointed with them. Then I played the shit out of them, got used to how they sounded and what they were good at and now I think they sound awesome.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

gunch said:


> who even likes Uberschalls anyways I've never seen a good word about it


Really? I've read that they're like a better version of the recto.


----------



## Cynicanal (Aug 2, 2019)

gunch said:


> who even likes Uberschalls anyways I've never seen a good word about it


I love my TJ, and Lasse Lammert uses his Rev Green a ton.


----------



## wakjob (Aug 2, 2019)

Another Uberschall disappointment here...
Loved the cab enough to take home, but the head stayed.

Gen 1 BE-100 head, sounded great but...
I liked the profile I made of it with my KPA better! 

Tube amps are like old cars. They don't run right until they've been properly tuned. And there's "tuning" and then there's "fine tuning".<--that doesn't come from twiddling knobs and adding pedals ect...

Had a JCM900 Dual Reverb on my bench that sucked hard.
Fresh set of power amp tubes biased right, rolled some choice NOS preamp tubes, replaced a couple of caps & resistors, a little snip to the circuit there, and throw it on a nice Marshall 1960ax cab...

I wish that amp was mine. He wouldn't sell.


----------



## XPT707FX (Aug 2, 2019)

sevenfoxes said:


> Those early 3 channel triples sound like crap until you crank them to 11. I remember trying one for the first time and thinking it sounded like my practice amp sitting right next to it, but only bigger. It was like a fuzz box on steroids, lol!
> 
> I don't think I'll ever get over how easy it is to dial in a 5150 at any volume, especially compared to a recto, which actually is one of my my favorite amps of all time. In fact, I'm currently on the prowl for a Tremoverb or Roadster.


Well if you live near Toronto there is a used roadster combo in the North York location of Long & MacQuade


----------



## Gmork (Aug 2, 2019)

sevenfoxes said:


> You didn't like the recto, eh?


 i was really back and forth with it. Some times i loved it, and other times i spent more time fiddling. I seem to love simple plug n play amps.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 2, 2019)

Gmork said:


> i was really back and forth with it. Some times i loved it, and other times i spent more time fiddling. I seem to love simple plug n play amps.


Sounds about right. Ever notice how one day it sounds amazing, and then the next you're tweaking all the knobs in attempt to find the same sweet spot? I'm convinced that Mesa sticks little magic elves inside their amps that change the circuitry every time you power it off.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 2, 2019)

sevenfoxes said:


> Sounds about right. Ever notice how one day it sounds amazing, and then the next you're tweaking all the knobs in attempt to find the same sweet spot? I'm convinced that Mesa sticks little magic elves inside their amps that change the circuitry every time you power it off.



The same elves play with Mark amps 5 band EQs. They move them 8mm each night just to f*ck with you.


----------



## Gmork (Aug 2, 2019)

sevenfoxes said:


> Sounds about right. Ever notice how one day it sounds amazing, and then the next you're tweaking all the knobs in attempt to find the same sweet spot? I'm convinced that Mesa sticks little magic elves inside their amps that change the circuitry every time you power it off.


Yep! We're all onto you and your little shit elves mesa. 
I remember one day at band practice when i had my 6505 and dual rec there and thinking... Holy shit i think it sounds even better than my 6505 but that was only 1 day out of many. 
I wish mesa would make a new recto that is not versatile at all and only does the one incredible huge brutal tone and nothing else and the EQs would be passive and would not be very dynamic ie have a small area of effect to that particular tone control so that it didnt do a lot of tones but what it did do would always sound phenominal!


----------



## Cynicanal (Aug 2, 2019)

The EQ on a Recto in Red channel/Modern mode (that is, the way it's almost always used) already is passive.


----------



## narad (Aug 2, 2019)

Gmork said:


> Yep! We're all onto you and your little shit elves mesa.
> I remember one day at band practice when i had my 6505 and dual rec there and thinking... Holy shit i think it sounds even better than my 6505 but that was only 1 day out of many.
> I wish mesa would make a new recto that is not versatile at all and only does the one incredible huge brutal tone and nothing else and the EQs would be passive and would not be very dynamic ie have a small area of effect to that particular tone control so that it didnt do a lot of tones but what it did do would always sound phenominal!



I would basically love the Recto Twin Jet: no clean, no crunch, just like two recto tones -- one voiced to be a bit tighter, and one a bit looser for the 90s stuff. And with KT88 bias options right-out.


----------



## MoJoToJo (Aug 2, 2019)

This one cost me a pretty penny & did not do it for me, just not enough gain


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 2, 2019)

Smokey brootz?


----------



## Choop (Aug 3, 2019)

I don't think any amp that I've personally played that is popular I have been disappointed with, but I don't particularly like clips of EVH 5150 III's that I hear--the positive is you get a better clean sound with a brutal gain channel, but i think I like the regular Peavey 5150/6505 gain channels better than the 5150 III. The EVH just sound kind of stiff to me. Not awful though tbh, and I'm being nitpicky in the first place.


----------



## c7spheres (Aug 3, 2019)

I liked the Mesa Simul 2:90 but couldn't dial out enough low end. I had to get rid of it because of that. No low control. It needs a tone stack like my VHT two/fifty/two. I can get exactly what I want with that. Glad I got rid of my 2:90 because after that I found my 2-50-2 : )


----------



## mnemonic (Aug 3, 2019)

Red/modern mode on the rectos not having any negative feedback in the power amp is probably what makes them so inconsistent when things change. It makes them quite sensitive to cabinet changes (different impedence curve), line voltage changes, etc. 

The way the eq works doesn’t help matters, it’s a little goofy if you’re not used to it, but I guess it is what it is. If they swapped in a Marshall tonestack it would probably not sound much the same. 



narad said:


> I would basically love the Recto Twin Jet: no clean, no crunch, just like two recto tones -- one voiced to be a bit tighter, and one a bit looser for the 90s stuff. And with KT88 bias options right-out.



I always thought something like this would probably sell well. Less options, KT88’s, a tight switch like the Triple Crowns have. 

Like a death metal version of the Recto.

Also bring back chrome chassis.


----------



## narad (Aug 3, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Also bring back chrome chassis.



The other stuff is all us playing marketing and day-dreaming (wisely, I think), but this one is really a no-brainer. Instead we get chrome chassis on the trans atlantic series :-/


----------



## diagrammatiks (Aug 3, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Red/modern mode on the rectos not having any negative feedback in the power amp is probably what makes them so inconsistent when things change. It makes them quite sensitive to cabinet changes (different impedence curve), line voltage changes, etc.
> 
> The way the eq works doesn’t help matters, it’s a little goofy if you’re not used to it, but I guess it is what it is. If they swapped in a Marshall tonestack it would probably not sound much the same.
> 
> ...




That’s already the triple crown though. 

Like that’s like asking for them to make you the exact same thing but just named differently

The tc100 is easily the best amp they make right now.


----------



## narad (Aug 3, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> That’s already the triple crown though.
> 
> Like that’s like asking for them to make you the exact same thing but just named differently
> 
> The tc100 is easily the best amp they make right now.



The TC voicing sounds a lot more british to me though, so doesn't fulfill that niche. It seems more directly in the Marshall lineage without ever taking the tangent to SLO-land.


----------



## prlgmnr (Aug 3, 2019)

Imagine I did the distracted boyfriend meme but it's randall smith and there's "refining existing amps" but he's lustily staring at "releasing completely new amp"


----------



## mnemonic (Aug 3, 2019)

Yeah I was gonna say, I thought the Triple Crown was more of a refinement on the Royal Atlantic, and didn’t really have much of anything to do with the rectos. 

I haven’t played one, but also I haven’t heard anyone say it sounded like a Recto.


----------



## narad (Aug 3, 2019)

prlgmnr said:


> Imagine I did the distracted boyfriend meme but it's randall smith and there's "refining existing amps" but he's lustily staring at "releasing completely new amp"



SSO is sort of compatible with Drake meme:

"Revamped Ultra Metal Version of Rectifier Legacy" 

"All clean Fendery amp for old people"


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 3, 2019)

Anyone disappointed by the Archon? Does the 50w have a less aggressive voicing than the 100w?


----------



## laxu (Aug 3, 2019)

prlgmnr said:


> Imagine I did the distracted boyfriend meme but it's randall smith and there's "refining existing amps" but he's lustily staring at "releasing completely new amp"



I don't think we need more manufacturers doing the Friedman and Orange thing where they rework an existing amp and then just tell you to buy the new one. Even my Bogner Goldfinger is an improved version of an existing design and while the improvements are welcome, it would be nice if they offered the upgrade route for existing owners.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 3, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> That’s already the triple crown though.
> 
> Like that’s like asking for them to make you the exact same thing but just named differently
> 
> The tc100 is easily the best amp they make right now.


Except the TC sounds nothing like the recto. I owned both of these amps, and A/B'd them for several hours once. The gain structure is completely different on them. The TC really lacks the balls of the recto, while the recto lacks the smoothness of the TC. The cleans are different as well. They're just two totally different amps, which is why i would also love to see them make a recto with the features of the TC.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 3, 2019)

The906 said:


> Anyone disappointed by the Archon? Does the 50w have a less aggressive voicing than the 100w?


The general consensus is that the Archon is a simple, but an amazing amp. I loved my Archon when I had it. Easily one of my favorite amps. Never played the 50w though, but 50w versions usually sound less aggressive to me.


----------



## protest (Aug 3, 2019)

Gmork said:


> I wish mesa would make a new recto that is not versatile at all and only does the one incredible huge brutal tone and nothing else and the EQs would be passive and would not be very dynamic ie have a small area of effect to that particular tone control so that it didnt do a lot of tones but what it did do would always sound phenominal!





narad said:


> I would basically love the Recto Twin Jet: no clean, no crunch, just like two recto tones -- one voiced to be a bit tighter, and one a bit looser for the 90s stuff. And with KT88 bias options right-out.



Early 2 channel Recto?


----------



## LiveOVErdrive (Aug 3, 2019)

I've only owned one expensive amp, and that's my Mesa mk5. I love it to pieces but I've never gelled with the "extreme" voicing on channel 3 before. Seems to be a lot of people's favorite choice but I've never liked it as much as the mk2 or mk4. 

Also PV should release a 1 channel 6505 with no tone stack (just internally set to 666). Just gain, master, presence, and resonance.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 3, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> The same elves play with Mark amps 5 band EQs. They move them 8mm each night just to f*ck with you.




They are not Elves... they are Gremlins:


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 3, 2019)

LiveOVErdrive said:


> I've only owned one expensive amp, and that's my Mesa mk5. I love it to pieces but I've never gelled with the "extreme" voicing on channel 3 before. Seems to be a lot of people's favorite choice but I've never liked it as much as the mk2 or mk4.
> 
> Also PV should release a 1 channel 6505 with no tone stack (just internally set to 666). Just gain, master, presence, and resonance.



This sounds like a "purity" model that could be upcharged to $3K. Where do I pre-order?


----------



## oracles (Aug 3, 2019)

Every Diezel I've ever tried, most notably the VH4. I was so hyped to try one after reading nothing but pages and pages of praise for it, and I couldnt have been more disappointed. Every Diezel I've tried after that has been various shades of disappointing, but none more so than the VH4.

Mesa Recitifiers. All of them. Unless its cranked to high hell and boosted on top of that, I hate nothing more than the in room feel of playing a recto. The Stiletto might edge out the Triple as my least favourite Mesa. 

Friedmans. I found them vastly underwhelming. They dont sound bad, but I just wanted more from it than "modded Marshall"


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 3, 2019)

The906 said:


> Anyone disappointed by the Archon? Does the 50w have a less aggressive voicing than the 100w?


The 100w archon is pretty cool imo. It kind of occupies that recto/uber sonic territory but manages to do so with a leaner low end


----------



## budda (Aug 3, 2019)

LiveOVErdrive said:


> I've only owned one expensive amp, and that's my Mesa mk5. I love it to pieces but I've never gelled with the "extreme" voicing on channel 3 before. Seems to be a lot of people's favorite choice but I've never liked it as much as the mk2 or mk4.
> 
> Also PV should release a 1 channel 6505 with no tone stack (just internally set to 666). Just gain, master, presence, and resonance.



Why would peavey do that? Just tape the knobs of a 5150


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 3, 2019)

budda said:


> Why would peavey do that? Just tape the knobs of a 5150


Better yet, glue them!


----------



## LiveOVErdrive (Aug 3, 2019)

budda said:


> Why would peavey do that? Just tape the knobs of a 5150


Because it would be stupid and fun. Kind of like the hm2 clones with only a level knob


----------



## oneblackened (Aug 3, 2019)

Oh man...

- Every Engl I've ever played has disappointed me. They're all far too compressed and they don't feel good to play.
- Revv Generator 120. It sounds like someone had a mediocre Axe FX patch and voiced an amp around that. Four channels and not a satisfying tone to be found.
- Diezel VH4. Fizzy as hell, hard to dial. I liked the Herbert, though...
- Mesa Mark IV. Clearly good sounds are possible, but I gotta be honest... it was very tricky to dial it in.
- Fryette Sig:X. Super dry, super stiff, really not inspiring to play at all.



oracles said:


> Every Diezel I've ever tried, most notably the VH4. I was so hyped to try one after reading nothing but pages and pages of praise for it, and I couldnt have been more disappointed. Every Diezel I've tried after that has been various shades of disappointing, but none more so than the VH4.
> 
> Mesa Recitifiers. All of them. Unless its cranked to high hell and boosted on top of that, I hate nothing more than the in room feel of playing a recto. The Stiletto might edge out the Triple as my least favourite Mesa.
> 
> Friedmans. I found them vastly underwhelming. They dont sound bad, but I just wanted more from it than "modded Marshall"


We've talked about this Jeremy, and you know my thoughts on Rectos. The OTs are tiny, they're biased stupid cold from the factory (the hottest set of 6L6s I have on hand sit around 50% PD on the single rec I've got on my bench), and they just aren't voiced right for 6L6s. Fixing all of that isn't hard, but why Mesa hasn't tweaked them is beyond me.


----------



## narad (Aug 3, 2019)

oneblackened said:


> Oh man...
> 
> - Every Engl I've ever played has disappointed me. They're all far too compressed and they don't feel good to play.
> - Revv Generator 120. It sounds like someone had a mediocre Axe FX patch and voiced an amp around that. Four channels and not a satisfying tone to be found.
> ...



Damn dude, what amp _do_ you like?


----------



## oneblackened (Aug 3, 2019)

narad said:


> Damn dude, what amp _do_ you like?


KSRs, Soldanos, Mesa Mark IIIs, my modded Recto (KT88s do that circuit a whooole lot of good), Uberschalls (yup...). Also Friedmans, JCM800 2203/2204... And a bunch of others.


----------



## Meeotch (Aug 4, 2019)

Well I haven't seen anyone knocking Wizards yet. The MTL remains at the top of my list of amps to try.


----------



## Descent (Aug 4, 2019)

@oracles Mesa Mini Recto – huge sound at bearable volumes. I love mine!

For me it was the Kemper modeler+power amp. Spent 2 hrs tweaking that thjng and there were 2 amps next to it that the modelled, I couldn't get that to sound as good or close.
Soldano — been disappointed by everything that isn't a SLO.
Rivera — could never gel with anything in their line.
Marshall JCM2000 — could never dial some of this fizz and gargly mudiness out of it.
5150/6506 — can't stand either of these amps, never liked them...super fizzy, extremely noisy, easily prone to breaking. I've recorded a lot of bands that had these...preferred the JSX over them any day.
Peavey XXX — only 2nd channel useable for crunch. The rest was a fizzy mess. Absolutely hated that amp.
VHT/Fryette Pitbull — could never gel with it, although super cranked a with the right overdrive...I could see why it was revered.
Engl Fireball (I think mk1) — the other guitarist bought one, could never get it to sound good.


----------



## Edika (Aug 4, 2019)

Even though I wasn't disappointed by the amp I had the same issue with the Mesa Triple Recto I owned. Everyday or every couple of days I would tweak it because it just sounded "different" lol. Either I would play the orange channel one day the othef the red, I'd switch the tube rectifier on or use the solid state get the sound where I wanted and next day it sound like another amp. It was yhe three channel non MW version. I used it without a boost as I didn't know about boosting back then and the best it sounded was with EMG's. I couldn't get the Carvin DC747 I had to sound as I wanted ont the low string. I now know it wasn't the guitar but the amp lol. 
In any case I would still have it if I wasn't going to move and needed the money. So not exactly disappointed but can understand why people would not like it.


----------



## TedintheShed (Aug 4, 2019)

The906 said:


> Anyone disappointed by the Archon? Does the 50w have a less aggressive voicing than the 100w?



My 100 watt Archon was Amazing, but limited. It did two things well: one really good high gain and one clean that is about the best you'll ever find on a high gain amp


----------



## Bearitone (Aug 4, 2019)

TedintheShed said:


> My 100 watt Archon was Amazing, but limited. It did two things well: one really good high gain and one clean that is about the best you'll ever find on a high gain amp


Are the cleans of the Archon like the cleans on the Temonti amp? Because the cleans on the Tremonti were awesome and full sounding.

The best clean tones on any high gain amps I’ve tried came from the Orange Dark series (Dual Dark, Dark Terror), that Tremonti amp, and my ISP Theta Combo with my favorite being the Orange.


----------



## TedintheShed (Aug 4, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Are the cleans of the Archon like the cleans on the Temonti amp? Because the cleans on the Tremonti were awesome and full sounding.
> 
> The best clean tones on any high gain amps I’ve tried came from the Orange Dark series (Dual Dark, Dark Terror), that Tremonti amp, and my ISP Theta Combo with my favorite being the Orange.



Can't say- never tried the Tremoti


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 4, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Are the cleans of the Archon like the cleans on the Temonti amp? Because the cleans on the Tremonti were awesome and full sounding.
> 
> The best clean tones on any high gain amps I’ve tried came from the Orange Dark series (Dual Dark, Dark Terror), that Tremonti amp, and my ISP Theta Combo with my favorite being the Orange.


The cleans on the Archon are MUCH better! They're the best cleans I've ever heard in person.


----------



## Meeotch (Aug 4, 2019)

+1 on the ISP Theta cleans. 

And even though I bought and sold an Archon 100, I've thought about giving it another go now that a few years have passed. I remember the lows being pretty lean though, as was posted above. Honestly, I've been holding off in hopes of PRS releasing a 100W Tremonti!


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 4, 2019)

Meeotch said:


> +1 on the ISP Theta cleans.
> 
> And even though I bought and sold an Archon 100, I've thought about giving it another go now that a few years have passed. I remember the lows being pretty lean though, as was posted above. Honestly, I've been holding off in hopes of PRS releasing a 100W Tremonti!


I don't recall the lows being lean at all. I thought they were very reminiscent of the 5150: tight, yet full.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Aug 6, 2019)

narad said:


> Damn dude, what amp _do_ you like?


Probably the best amp in the world (based on this forum)...Peavey 5150/6505.


----------



## waffles (Aug 6, 2019)

I remember being 'disappointingly disappointed' (I was disappointed that I felt disappointment, if that makes sense) on my first time playing through a recto. The amp revered by many of my heroes and I didn't like its sound when I myself played through it. I still like the sound and will not hesitate to play through one but I would definitely choose a powerball or a 5150 over it.


----------



## mnemonic (Aug 6, 2019)

waffles said:


> I remember being 'disappointingly disappointed' (I was disappointed that I felt disappointment, if that makes sense) on my first time playing through a recto. The amp revered by many of my heroes and I didn't like its sound when I myself played through it. I still like the sound and will not hesitate to play through one but I would definitely choose a powerball or a 5150 over it.



Back when I had only been playing guitar for like two years or something, I tried a single Rectifier at a guitar center and I couldn’t figure out how to make it sound good. I had recently got into Nevermore and I think it wasn’t long after This Godless Endeavour came out, so I was expecting that kind of sound. 

Not knowing what I was doing, and not having a boost, certainly didn’t help. I liked the Marshall MG combo next to it more, haha


----------



## gnoll (Aug 6, 2019)

I don't know about well received since almost no one has played it but definately high dollar: Engl 580 preamp. It doesn't sound bad exactly, it's more that I don't like the feel of it, it's too stiff. It's okay when I play it but when I go back to 5150 with eq in front I realize that I like that 100x more.


----------



## kylendm (Aug 6, 2019)

Series 1 Rectoverb. I couldn't wait to get rid of that thing. It was so loose even with a boost. I couldn't get it to sound good at all.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Aug 6, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Are the cleans of the Archon like the cleans on the Temonti amp? Because the cleans on the Tremonti were awesome and full sounding.
> 
> The best clean tones on any high gain amps I’ve tried came from the Orange Dark series (Dual Dark, Dark Terror), that Tremonti amp, and my ISP Theta Combo with my favorite being the Orange.


 
Another +1 on the Theta cleans.


----------



## Paul McAleer (Aug 6, 2019)

Engl Invader


----------



## c7spheres (Aug 6, 2019)

I know they're not high dollar now and don't know what price they debuted at, but the Marshall JCM2000 was a big disappointment. My friend got one when they first came out and thought it was the best tone ever. I rushed over to try it out, plugged it in, and literally thought he was messing with me. I thought it felt and sounded solid state to me. I actually liked the feel and sound of my old solid state Peavey Supreme 160 head I had in 1991 a lot more than it. I do like the Marshall 800's and 900's though.


----------



## laxu (Aug 7, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> I know they're not high dollar now and don't know what price they debuted at, but the Marshall JCM2000 was a big disappointment. My friend got one when they first came out and thought it was the best tone ever. I rushed over to try it out, plugged it in, and literally thought he was messing with me. I thought it felt and sounded solid state to me. I actually liked the feel and sound of my old solid state Peavey Supreme 160 head I had in 1991 a lot more than it. I do like the Marshall 800's and 900's though.



The JCM2000s are a special bag of tricks. I had a DSL50 back in the day and I can say a few things:

They sound their best when cranked, like most Marshalls.
The stock Marshall branded preamp tubes were the worst sounding ones I've ever experienced.
The tone shi(f)t button should never be turned on.
Deep button should also be left well alone.
Balancing the channels is difficult because the lead is much thinner and brighter than the clean/crunch. Ideal use would be to just throw an overdrive on top of the Crunch channel as that would put you nicely into boosted JCM800 type tones.
They were never that expensive amps though.


----------



## USMarine75 (Aug 7, 2019)

I'm gonna have to agree about the Bogner Uber and TJ. I just never found it worth the $$$. It didn't seem to offer anything "special".

With a SLO (or HR+), you get that creamy compressed goodness but that somehow is still wide open and deafening like a cranked Marshall? With amps like the Diezel Herbert or Fryette/VHT UL GEQ, you get that grinding tight articulate thunder. The 5150, Bogner Ecstasy, blah blah blah...

So many great amps that have something special. The Uber just didn't do anything (for me or to me). I spent several days with one and I had no interest in keeping it. I did like the Shiva, Atma, and Goldfingers that I tried. The same friend with the Uber let me use his Ecstasy Classic and I much preferred that amp (I just couldn't afford what he was asking at the time).

However, that Uberkab is legit.

[As always... YMMV.]


----------



## Stooly (Aug 7, 2019)

Uberschall Twin Jet. Weird effects loop...I just couldn't get it to work with my 4 cable method. Changed tubes etc.... no dice. My 1st Mesa Racktifier… the 2nd one was much better


----------



## thrashinbatman (Aug 7, 2019)

JP2C. Not that I hate it, I actually like it a lot, but given how much I paid and it's pedigree I was expecting something a bit cooler. Again, I still really like it and have no intentions of selling it.

ENGL Powerball. I've heard a lot of cool tones from this one and plenty of pros use it but I just could not get a good tone from it. My experiences with the ENGLs I've played suggest to me that I don't really like anything of theirs beyond the Savage and e530, which are two that I like a LOT.


----------



## sakeido (Aug 7, 2019)

EVH 5150-3s. I've tried so many of them, and it's a hard no every time. They crush in the mix but playing by yourself I find they just kinda suck, which is backwards from my typical experience. The Peaveys are better.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 7, 2019)

sakeido said:


> EVH 5150-3s. I've tried so many of them, and it's a hard no every time. They crush in the mix but playing by yourself I find they just kinda suck, which is backwards from my typical experience. The Peaveys are better.


I also like the original 5150 a lot more. They're just way more natural sounding, and less compressed.

While i do like the evh amps, I've noticed that they have an annoying high presence thing going on in the background that can't be dialed out. It's most noticeable with the 50w.

I will say that I do like the Stealth (6l6) quite a bit! It's like a mix of the original 5150 and EVH.


----------



## KailM (Aug 7, 2019)

Mesa Mark V. I can’t say that I hated it, but I just couldn’t get a sound that ‘wowed’ me. Admittedly, I didn’t completely understand how all its tone adjustments worked at the time, but I’ve never been blown away by Mark Vs on recordings either.

It’s not a Mesa thing either; I played a Royal Atlantic once and that thing sounded superb after 1 minute of dialing. I’ve played Rectos cranked a few times too — awesome.

I really want to try a Mark V again now that I have a better understanding of how everything interplays with the sound.


----------



## jarledge (Aug 7, 2019)

it is interesting to see people say the mark 5. I found a couple of good sounds out of it but I wasn't blown away for the price. I'd buy one used maybe... I rather get a 4 and an SOB, or maybe a stiletto ace.


----------



## Bearitone (Aug 8, 2019)

KailM said:


> Mesa Mark V. I can’t say that I hated it, but I just couldn’t get a sound that ‘wowed’ me. Admittedly, I didn’t completely understand how all its tone adjustments worked at the time, but I’ve never been blown away by Mark Vs on recordings either.
> 
> It’s not a Mesa thing either; I played a Royal Atlantic once and that thing sounded superb after 1 minute of dialing. I’ve played Rectos cranked a few times too — awesome.
> 
> I really want to try a Mark V again now that I have a better understanding of how everything interplays with the sound.



To me the Mk V in person sounds fuckin great but, I’ve yet to hear a recording that stood out as particularly awesome or “brutal”


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 8, 2019)

Yeah, Mark V. A really good amp if you know what you are doing. But easy to make sound bad. I didnt vibe with a Mark IV too. Too many switches and it paralyzed me with all the options and you second guess yourself on what sounds good or not. 

But when I tried a Mark III. Wow. Instant late 80s, early 90s thrash, death metal sound. It sounded like Chaos A.D. in a box!!!


----------



## SSK0909 (Aug 8, 2019)

I also have to say the Mark V. It has an amazing clean channel and fantastic features. But having owned both a IIC+ and III, the V just sounds completely lifeless on channel 3. It doesn't helpt that Mesa are ridiculously expensive in europe either. 

I was also very disappointed with the Krank Rev one. That thing is fizz heaven. It really does nail Dimebags tone (Even though this is not his signature), but I've always hated that tone and probably hoped it could be made to sound, you know, good.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 8, 2019)

sevenfoxes said:


> The TC-50 frustrated me to no end. I loved the tone, but it lacked the "oomph" i wanted. I tried everything (eq pedals in the loop, boosts, different power tubes, etc.), but I couldn't get it to sound the way I wanted to.
> 
> I then tried the TC100, and while it was a huge improvement in that department, I could not get over the noise from the fan. I must have been crazy sensitive to it, because I couldn't stop hearing it, even at louder volumes. I wanted to unplug it, but Mess soldered it to the board. Gerrrrr.....



I know that story!! 

It just sold again, btw.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 8, 2019)

narad said:


> The TC voicing sounds a lot more british to me though, so doesn't fulfill that niche. It seems more directly in the Marshall lineage without ever taking the tangent to SLO-land.



Noticeably less so with 6L6s.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 8, 2019)

To me it sounds like the Mark V has a tighter sound with more gain than previous Marks, but it has a shiiitton more mid range and a less aggressive top end. Like even fully scooped, the Mark V still has a lot of mids.

Youd probably want a Mark JP2C, III, and IV seem the best if you want brutal AF sounds, while the V is the jack of all trades amp.


----------



## LiveOVErdrive (Aug 8, 2019)

I'm curious what type of music you guys are playing that you don't like the Mark V? 

I adore mine, but I'm also an enormous dream theater fan boy so it stands to reason. 

I have noticed that, while possible, it is much more difficult to dial in a modern/djent/brutal tone with it than it is to dial in a petrucci tone. You pretty much need an OCD in front.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 8, 2019)

I adore my mk3. It's such a pissed off amp. The mk4 was thicker/smoother sounding, which is part of why I ditched it for my Mk3. The mk3 just feels more raw and aggressive, which is what I prefer.


----------



## TedEH (Aug 8, 2019)

Maybe I'm too used to my Mark IV, but I never thought of Marks as being "angry" or "aggressive" amps, in the same way that any vaguely 5150-esque amp tends to sound pissed off to my ears.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 8, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Maybe I'm too used to my Mark IV, but I never thought of Marks as being "angry" or "aggressive" amps, in the same way that any vaguely 5150-esque amp tends to sound pissed off to my ears.


If you get the chance to play them back to back you can hear it. The Mk3 has more top end sizzle and feels very much like a hot rodded marshall with all the upper mids. Mk4s are a bit darker/smoother with less of the upper mids iirc. Plus the Mk3 has a bit more snarl in the midrange overall ime.


----------



## oniduder (Aug 8, 2019)

ummm 
-mesa mark V, never owned but definitely played it quite a bit, never gelled with me
-diezel vh4, and then later the herbert i found lacking a lot of ways, owned several herbies not a fan again like a said after the 2nd one or so, the vh4 i hated almost immediately and never bought one again
-mesa mark III i really didn't enjoy that much, i think i had a coliseum head too, with something absurd like biased to kt88's still love the mark iv above all else
-evh III's i couldn't really glob onto either for whatever reason
-engl invader 150, idk seemed good for certain things, but i had to return it because of weird volume drop and idk, sounded ok when working properly though

that's all i can think of at the moment

some of the aforementioned that i love are the VHT's (pitbulls) and any and all rectos i've owned i've never had real issue with, the rectos are and have always been odd to dial in, in my opinion (obviously this and everything in this entire thread is subjective so added that is stupid but oh well) idk what mesa does for the amps to be that way, i kill the treble completely and go from there with rectos in general, but whatever

bogner ubers never been interested in, even how they describe them i'm not interested, (insert drake gif)


----------



## TedEH (Aug 8, 2019)

I never owned one but I've noodled a bit with a VH4 that a shop nearby has - and it just never quite worked for me.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 8, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I know that story!!
> 
> It just sold again, btw.


Lol!!!

Congrats! Glad you got it sold! Be on the lookout for that manual.


----------



## LiveOVErdrive (Aug 8, 2019)

Owning a mark v I can definitely see not gelling with it. There are so many tone shaping options it can get ridiculous sometimes. Compare that to my 5150 where you set the knobs all pretty much in the middle and it just sounds good.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 8, 2019)

LiveOVErdrive said:


> Owning a mark v I can definitely see not gelling with it. There are so many tone shaping options it can get ridiculous sometimes. Compare that to my 5150 where you set the knobs all pretty much in the middle and it just sounds good.


Seriously. The 5150 is pretty much plug and play.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 8, 2019)

I’ll add some fuel to the fire... so to speak...

Diezel VH4... pretty meh overall. Very compressed and flat/neutral/linear sounding. Channel 3 is the main attraction and I would almost never use any of the other channels. Pretty dark sounding amp. Sounds best boosted with a graphic eq in the serial fx loop.

KSR Gemini... mix of Soldano SLO with a touch of Mesa Recto and Bogner Uberschall thrown in. Jack of many tones... master of none. Very well built, but no one single mind blowing tone. Much prefer my collection of various Mesa Rectos. Also it has a very smooth warm tone... ala the Soldano SLO (an amp which I am not a fan of either) so bear that in mind. Fans of bright, edgy, cutting high end look elsewhere.


----------



## efiltsohg (Aug 8, 2019)

RE Mark V, in general I'm not interested in any extremely versatile amp that you could fiddle with all day


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 8, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> I’ll add some fuel to the fire... so to speak...
> 
> 
> KSR Gemini... mix of Soldano SLO with a touch of Mesa Recto and Bogner Uberschall thrown in. Jack of many tones... master of none. Very well built, but no one single mind blowing tone. Much prefer my collection of various Mesa Rectos. Also it has a very smooth warm tone... ala the Soldano SLO (an amp which I am not a fan of either) so bear that in mind. Fans of bright, edgy, cutting high end look elsewhere.



Wow. That is the first time someone echoed the same sentiments I have on the Gemini. Sure, the Gemini sounds big but it lacked much aggression. Although, I'm a fan of the SLO. I know the SLO can sound angry depending on how you run the presence and the treble vs how loud it is. 

What amp would you recommend for "bright, edgy, cutting high end" tone? Since I am gravitating towards that sound lately.


----------



## Bearitone (Aug 8, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Wow. That is the first time someone echoed the same sentiments I have on the Gemini. Sure, the Gemini sounds big but it lacked much aggression. Although, I'm a fan of the SLO. I know the SLO can sound angry depending on how you run the presence and the treble vs how loud it is.
> 
> What amp would you recommend for "bright, edgy, cutting high end" tone? Since I am gravitating towards that sound lately.



I know you didn’t ask me specifically but, i reccomend Satan

Edit: reccomend _a _Satan


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 8, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Wow. That is the first time someone echoed the same sentiments I have on the Gemini. Sure, the Gemini sounds big but it lacked much aggression. Although, I'm a fan of the SLO. I know the SLO can sound angry depending on how you run the presence and the treble vs how loud it is.
> 
> What amp would you recommend for "bright, edgy, cutting high end" tone? Since I am gravitating towards that sound lately.


Mesa Mark III. It gets very bright, very quickly because of how the treble is tied to gain in the circuit. Also it sounds mean as fuck

Or you could go with the brightest amp ever, the Stiletto


----------



## Choop (Aug 8, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Mesa Mark III. It gets very bright, very quickly because of how the treble is tied to gain in the circuit. Also it sounds mean as fuck
> 
> Or you could go with the brightest amp ever, the Stiletto



+1, I have two Mark III's right now and either one can be set with a bright, cutting gain tone like that. One is a red stripe and the other a blue, and tbh I think the blue stripe gets just a little bit brighter even haha. It can be absurd! But I love them, my favorite Mark series amps for sure.

Uhhh as far as another amp that can get a super bright cutting high end, I'm not really sure. Maybe EVH 5150 III? Seems like most high gain amps gravitate more toward having lows and darker tones. The Stiletto would definitely get in the ballpark too!

On topic of the thread, I dunno if there are even any other amps that I've just been flat out disappointed by. More often I am surprised at how much I like different amps that I've never played on before.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 8, 2019)

The Blue Stripe and Green Stripe are the brightest ones IIRC. The Red is supposed to be more of a Mark II flavor I think?


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 8, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Wow. That is the first time someone echoed the same sentiments I have on the Gemini. Sure, the Gemini sounds big but it lacked much aggression. Although, I'm a fan of the SLO. I know the SLO can sound angry depending on how you run the presence and the treble vs how loud it is.
> 
> What amp would you recommend for "bright, edgy, cutting high end" tone? Since I am gravitating towards that sound lately.




Mesa MKIII as KB mentioned above. Hard to beat a well dialed in and properly serviced MKIII. Really killer amp for those sort of tones.


----------



## LiveOVErdrive (Aug 8, 2019)

Yup

"The fourth revision was the "Blue Stripe" Mark III which featured a blue marker stripe above the power cord. The lead channel was voiced so brightly, it is considered to be the most aggressive Mark Series Boogie ever introduced. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_Boogie_Mark_Series#Mark_III


----------



## Meeotch (Aug 8, 2019)

This has been a cool discussion on the Mark series! I own a JP-2C and I don't think I could ever sell it. While the gain isn't quite as "wet" as a 5150, it has a unique aggression to it that really takes me back to MOP/AJFA.

One thing that has really helped is an Empress ParaEQ in the loop. Initially I was just scooping that 750 slider dramatically, until I realized it was more 600hz that needed cutting. But I couldn't quite dial it in with the 5 band alone. Everything sounds perfect in the mids now!

Can anyone compare a Mark III to the JP? This blue stripe sounds intriguing.


----------



## Andromalia (Aug 9, 2019)

ADA MP1 - Which was costing, at the time, around what would be 5K€ today. It just sounded ok through a Marshall poweramp (do'nt remember which, one of those dual channel tube ones with a glass panel on the front)


----------



## c7spheres (Aug 9, 2019)

Andromalia said:


> ADA MP1 - Which was costing, at the time, around what would be 5K€ today. It just sounded ok through a Marshall poweramp (do'nt remember which, one of those dual channel tube ones with a glass panel on the front)


 That's surprising. I loved it. It may have been the MP-2 I tired though. It had great heavy tones.


----------



## BrutalRob (Aug 9, 2019)

@Wizard of Ozz i think we would like the same amps. any recommendations?


----------



## Andromalia (Aug 9, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> That's surprising. I loved it. It may have been the MP-2 I tired though. It had great heavy tones.


 I had the MP2 a bit later when I was in Japan, so 95-96. It was much better in that it had a 9 band graphic EQ which, considering the time period involved, allowed you to scoop the mids like a mofo. 
It also had a noise gate and stereo effects loop and a decent speaker emulation.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 9, 2019)

BrutalRob said:


> @Wizard of Ozz i think we would like the same amps. any recommendations?




Some of my favorites include:

1. Mesa JP-2C
2. Mesa Mark 3 Blue and Green stripes
3. Wizard MTL
4. Mesa Triple Recto MW
5. Engl Savage 120


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 9, 2019)

Meeotch said:


> This has been a cool discussion on the Mark series! I own a JP-2C and I don't think I could ever sell it. While the gain isn't quite as "wet" as a 5150, it has a unique aggression to it that really takes me back to MOP/AJFA.
> 
> One thing that has really helped is an Empress ParaEQ in the loop. Initially I was just scooping that 750 slider dramatically, until I realized it was more 600hz that needed cutting. But I couldn't quite dial it in with the 5 band alone. Everything sounds perfect in the mids now!
> 
> Can anyone compare a Mark III to the JP? This blue stripe sounds intriguing.




More similar than different. The JP-2C is based on John's MKIIC+ HRG. Most of the Mark 3s made were of the DRG variety... Dual or Simul-Class (triode/pentode power tube layout) with 75W power out, Reverb, and Graphic EQ... not 100W output no Simul-Class... and different OT (like the HRG)... there are a few HRG Blues out there... but these are more rare to find. Then you have the Green which is 85W (all power tubes wired in full pentode)... which is a little tighter more focused than the Blue.

Unless you have them all side to side it's hard to hear, and harder to describe the differences. The Simul-Class DRG models are bit smoother, warmer, less tight, and more forgiving in the sound/feel department. I like the Blue and Green stripes the best.


----------



## budda (Aug 9, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Wow. That is the first time someone echoed the same sentiments I have on the Gemini. Sure, the Gemini sounds big but it lacked much aggression. Although, I'm a fan of the SLO. I know the SLO can sound angry depending on how you run the presence and the treble vs how loud it is.
> 
> What amp would you recommend for "bright, edgy, cutting high end" tone? Since I am gravitating towards that sound lately.



Bright and cutting? A distortion of choice into a jcm800.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 9, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> I know you didn’t ask me specifically but, i reccomend Satan
> 
> Edit: reccomend _a _Satan





KnightBrolaire said:


> Mesa Mark III. It gets very bright, very quickly because of how the treble is tied to gain in the circuit. Also it sounds mean as fuck
> 
> Or you could go with the brightest amp ever, the Stiletto





Wizard of Ozz said:


> Mesa MKIII as KB mentioned above. Hard to beat a well dialed in and properly serviced MKIII. Really killer amp for those sort of tones.



Yeah, I love the MkIII, but I already have a JP2C to scratch the Mark series tone itch. I was demoing a blue stripe a few months ago and loved how aggressive it is. But I ended up getting the JP2C since it has 3 channels, midi, and it can do classic mark sounds as well as modern br00tz via the push/pull presence knob. It can't get 100% Mark III aggression but it can get real close and much louder.

As for the Satan, I have tried. But just not my cup of tea. It just doesn't saturate as much as I would have liked. I preferred the new Recto multi watts. 




budda said:


> Bright and cutting? A distortion of choice into a jcm800.



I would prefer plug and play amps that dont require ODs or boosts. But yeah, I have entertained getting a classic 800 with an eq and an OD. I'm gravitating towards Cameron type modded Marshalls for now, and I might talk to Ceriatone.


----------



## Bentaycanada (Aug 9, 2019)

I had a Framus Cobra that usually sell pretty high for around $1200-1500 USD. I got it for an insanely low $700 CDN. I wanted to love it, but I could never gel with it. I found it extremely cold and stiff. I retubed and biased it, and it didn't improve much. It has killer metal tone, but was not versatile at all, and I never had a "wow" moment with it.

In the end I trusted that it just wasn't my sound, and I went back to my old Marshall JVM instead.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 9, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> and an OD. I'm gravitating towards Cameron type modded Marshalls for now, and I might talk to Ceriatone.



A Cameron Atomica would be fucking killer. When I had my AX8, it was my favorite amp. It was tight and bright as fuck, and when you set it up right, it pretty much nailed Dino Cazares' old modded JCM800 tones.


----------



## budda (Aug 9, 2019)

@MASS DEFECT I mean the pedal in front of a 2203 is still plug and play if the pedal is always on


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 9, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> A Cameron Atomica would be fucking killer. When I had my AX8, it was my favorite amp. It was tight and bright as fuck, and when you set it up right, it pretty much nailed Dino Cazares' old modded JCM800 tones.



True. The Atomica was in my Top 3 in my AX8. Along with the 5153 and the Mark IV models. The Atomica can get thick too! Do you know any amp makers that can do Atomica style modded Marshalls? I know Ceriatone is close but I dont know which of his high gain plexis approximates that sound.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 9, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> True. The Atomica was in my Top 3 in my AX8. Along with the 5153 and the Mark IV models. The Atomica can get thick too! Do you know any amp makers that can do Atomica style modded Marshalls? I know Ceriatone is close but I dont know which of his high gain plexis approximates that sound.


There is another brand that makes the Atomica based on Mark's amp supposedly. Can't remember the name of the brand or how accurate it is.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 10, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There is another brand that makes the Atomica based on Mark's amp supposedly. Can't remember the name of the brand or how accurate it is.




Surreal Amps

https://surrealamplification.com/

Not sure how close they are either. Never tried one.


----------



## oneblackened (Aug 10, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> I’ll add some fuel to the fire... so to speak...
> 
> KSR Gemini... mix of Soldano SLO with a touch of Mesa Recto and Bogner Uberschall thrown in. Jack of many tones... master of none. Very well built, but no one single mind blowing tone. Much prefer my collection of various Mesa Rectos. Also it has a very smooth warm tone... ala the Soldano SLO (an amp which I am not a fan of either) so bear that in mind. Fans of bright, edgy, cutting high end look elsewhere.


 Yeah the Gemini is probably the least aggro of all the KSRs. Orthos and Juno are considerably more pissed off.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 10, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Surreal Amps
> 
> https://surrealamplification.com/
> 
> Not sure how close they are either. Never tried one.


I just realized he added a new amp. The Classic Modern.

I wonder what that's based on...


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 10, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I just realized he added a new amp. The Classic Modern.
> 
> I wonder what that's based on...




I can only guess...  

If I recall there was some drama around this builder delivering amps on another board. Caveat Emptor.


----------



## Trainwreck (Aug 11, 2019)

My biggest disappointment would be the Engl Savage. I had high hopes for it but it failed me miserably. It sounded really thin. It had the highs, lows and mids but it sounded very flat to me. The sound really didn't have any volume. When I say volume I don't mean actual DB's, it sounded like an old transistor radio. I had it gone over by a legendary tech locally and he said everything checked out fine. I gave it to a friend for a month to see if he could get something out of it and he had no luck either. 

Now with that being said, the Invader and the Special Edition absolutely destroy. Two of my all time favorites.


----------



## efiltsohg (Aug 11, 2019)

Trainwreck said:


> My biggest disappointment would be the Engl Savage. I had high hopes for it but it failed me miserably. It sounded really thin. It had the highs, lows and mids but it sounded very flat to me. The sound really didn't have any volume. When I say volume I don't mean actual DB's, it sounded like an old transistor radio. I had it gone over by a legendary tech locally and he said everything checked out fine. I gave it to a friend for a month to see if he could get something out of it and he had no luck either.
> 
> Now with that being said, the Invader and the Special Edition absolutely destroy. Two of my all time favorites.



oddly enough that's the only Engl I like


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 11, 2019)

Trainwreck said:


> My biggest disappointment would be the Engl Savage. I had high hopes for it but it failed me miserably. It sounded really thin. It had the highs, lows and mids but it sounded very flat to me. The sound really didn't have any volume. When I say volume I don't mean actual DB's, it sounded like an old transistor radio. I had it gone over by a legendary tech locally and he said everything checked out fine. I gave it to a friend for a month to see if he could get something out of it and he had no luck either.
> 
> Now with that being said, the Invader and the Special Edition absolutely destroy. Two of my all time favorites.




Might have been something wrong with that Savage 120. They don't have a ton of low end punch to be sure, like the SE (which I also really like), but the Savage 120 should sound better than you describe. I do wish Engl added a Depth knob to the Savage 120 like the PB has. The on/off depth button is lame. These can be finicky amps with tubes and issues and such.

The SE kills for me... but I don't like the Invader. Also could be different tastes and such too.


----------



## thrashinbatman (Aug 11, 2019)

Trainwreck said:


> My biggest disappointment would be the Engl Savage. I had high hopes for it but it failed me miserably. It sounded really thin. It had the highs, lows and mids but it sounded very flat to me. The sound really didn't have any volume. When I say volume I don't mean actual DB's, it sounded like an old transistor radio. I had it gone over by a legendary tech locally and he said everything checked out fine. I gave it to a friend for a month to see if he could get something out of it and he had no luck either.
> 
> Now with that being said, the Invader and the Special Edition absolutely destroy. Two of my all time favorites.


This baffles me. Absolutely none of this describes my experience with the Savage. It's loud, full, aggressive, and has low end like a slab of concrete. IMO the Savage is the best metal amp ever made.


----------



## Trainwreck (Aug 11, 2019)

thrashinbatman said:


> This baffles me. Absolutely none of this describes my experience with the Savage. It's loud, full, aggressive, and has low end like a slab of concrete. IMO the Savage is the best metal amp ever made.


To this day its hard for me to explain it. It worked fine but sounded really thin. I've never had a chance to play another one locally but maybe I had a lame one. Ill definitely check out the savage 2's when they're released.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 12, 2019)

Trainwreck said:


> To this day its hard for me to explain it. It worked fine but sounded really thin. I've never had a chance to play another one locally but maybe I had a lame one. Ill definitely check out the savage 2's when they're released.



maybe your ears are just unaccustomed to them. the savages sound compressed and can appear to sound thin if you are used to liking more open-sounding amps.


----------



## thrashinbatman (Aug 13, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> maybe your ears are just unaccustomed to them. the savages sound compressed and can appear to sound thin if you are used to liking more open-sounding amps.


Tbf, I had the Savage 60 and it was really thin. My 120 is really heavy though. I hit the bass boost to thicken it up but it works.


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF (Aug 15, 2019)

H&K Triamp MkII. It just did not have enough depth and punch for me. The overall tone character was great, with a nice amount of gain. But that was the problem for me, that it seemed too polite and restrained. I've had this experience with every H&K amp I've ever tried; there was just something missing. It was the rounded feel, lack of hair and sizzle, and not enough gain (needing OD pedals or boosts) for what I play. But that's just my ears, and the MKII is the only one I actually owned for about 6 months until I traded it towards and ENGL Invader 150. Problems were most certainly solved. Until I had to trade that beast for a guitar I was hunting.

I didn't buy, but tried several times the Randall Satan, and was not as impressed as I thought I'd be. Until the third try, and for whatever reason it worked. But I still haven't bought one because of initial disappointment. Not really a high dollar amp, but highly touted. Still might try to 50w whenever a used one pops up. 

It's funny as I've gotten older I went from liking uber clean, hi-fi modern amps and now I'm into snarling, dirty gain monsters that are almost out of control. Oh your brand of amp prefers EL34 or 6L6 tubes? I'm going to put in KT88s or 6550s to darken it and shake my teeth loose. That's what I like now, pissed off high gain with out of control low end I have to tame. 

But I also want a Friedman JJ-100... I have a problem. Anyone have a bad time with that amp? And yes I've read the Butterslax vs JJ-100 comparisons and I'd personally go with the darker JJ-100 and figure out how to slam the front end or re-bias it.


----------



## Trainwreck (Aug 15, 2019)

I too had an issue with the Randall Satan. I found one in a pawn shop a few years ago for $700. I bought it thinking it was going to blow me away but it didn't. Don't get me wrong, its a fine amp but it really didn't have an original sound. I was hoping it would stand out from my other amps in terms of something new and invigorating but it sounded generic and really didn't have its own identity.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 16, 2019)

Mesa Roadster. Can't stand that amp.


----------



## oneblackened (Aug 17, 2019)

Coming back to add the Randall Satan (and really, most of the stuff Fortin has designed) on this list. Not a knock against Mike, clearly a lot of people like his amps... but they're all so ungodly bright. To get my friend's Satan 120 to actually like... sound balanced... I ended up using all JJ and RFT preamp tubes to knock the shrieky high end down to a controllable level.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo (Aug 18, 2019)

I'm now on my fifth EVH. This one is a Stealth. It sounds good, but why don't I feel good playing it? I miss my ENGL Fireball 100, but I think I'll regret getting another. There must have been a reason I sold it. But then again, I'm on my FIFTH EVH.


----------



## Gmork (Aug 18, 2019)

OliOliver said:


> I'm now on my fifth EVH. This one is a Stealth. It sounds good, but why don't I feel good playing it? I miss my ENGL Fireball 100, but I think I'll regret getting another. There must have been a reason I sold it. But then again, I'm on my FIFTH EVH.


I like my fireball100 more than anything else ive ever had/played!


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo (Aug 18, 2019)

Gmork said:


> I like my fireball100 more than anything else ive ever had/played!



It really is a great amp, unfortunately I never got to test it in a band scenario to see if it was true what everyone said about getting lost in the mix. Ironically, I think it sold about an hour after I decided to maybe not sell it and give it another shot after a really good session playing with it, but decided to go through with the sale rather than cancel it and risk tarnishing my perfect feedback record. Hey, I'm sure it all worked out in the end, right?.. Right?


----------



## Gmork (Aug 18, 2019)

OliOliver said:


> It really is a great amp, unfortunately I never got to test it in a band scenario to see if it was true what everyone said about getting lost in the mix. Ironically, I think it sold about an hour after I decided to maybe not sell it and give it another shot after a really good session playing with it, but decided to go through with the sale rather than cancel it and risk tarnishing my perfect feedback record. Hey, I'm sure it all worked out in the end, right?.. Right?


Im sorry.. But....... No. Lol. 
It was the fireball60 that got lost. The 100s sound was updated and works fucking gloriously in a band! Thick af!


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo (Aug 18, 2019)

Gmork said:


> Im sorry.. But....... No. Lol.
> It was the fireball60 that got lost. The 100s sound was updated and works fucking gloriously in a band! Thick af!



I thought that had to be the case... I recorded it plenty and it was nothing short of a pleasure to record. Fuck sake. I'm gonna hunt down another one for myself when I have the dough.


----------



## Werecow (Aug 19, 2019)

OliOliver said:


> I'm now on my fifth EVH. This one is a Stealth. It sounds good, but why don't I feel good playing it? I miss my ENGL Fireball 100, but I think I'll regret getting another. There must have been a reason I sold it. But then again, I'm on my FIFTH EVH.



Have you tried the 50W 6L6 yet? There's a wider variety of tones on offer due to the blue channel voicing being not as similar to the red as the Stealth's is.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo (Aug 19, 2019)

Werecow said:


> Have you tried the 50W 6L6 yet? There's a wider variety of tones on offer due to the blue channel voicing being not as similar to the red as the Stealth's is.



I've owned an LBX, a 50w6L6, 2 100w6L6's, and finally the Stealth. None excite me, I don't know why I keep buying them.


----------



## Thaeon (Aug 19, 2019)

OliOliver said:


> I've owned an LBX, a 50w6L6, 2 100w6L6's, and finally the Stealth. None excite me, I don't know why I keep buying them.



Cause others get great tones out of them but they just don't suit your playing style? I've run into that issue quite a few times with amps. The only amps that have ever suited me as a player were the Budda Superdrive, the Triple Rec., and now a Diezel Herbert come to find out an amp I was unimpressed by but sounds absolutely ridiculous for what I play in the context of a band.


----------



## budda (Aug 19, 2019)

OliOliver said:


> I've owned an LBX, a 50w6L6, 2 100w6L6's, and finally the Stealth. None excite me, I don't know why I keep buying them.



Sounds like you need EL34's


----------



## Bearitone (Aug 19, 2019)

OliOliver said:


> I'm now on my fifth EVH. This one is a Stealth. It sounds good, but why don't I feel good playing it? I miss my ENGL Fireball 100, but I think I'll regret getting another. There must have been a reason I sold it. But then again, I'm on my FIFTH EVH.



Go get the “clarity” mod from Kruze Kontrol amps. It’s suppose to reduce the compression. The before and after clips sound really good on his website.


----------



## protest (Aug 19, 2019)

OliOliver said:


> I've owned an LBX, a 50w6L6, 2 100w6L6's, and finally the Stealth. None excite me, I don't know why I keep buying them.



It's potentially the feel. After cycling through a good amount of high gain amps I've found that they definitely all have the differences, but (like Ola Englund's videos) once you set them up how you like them and run them through the same cab with the same guitar, they're more similar than they are different.

In my opinion it comes down to what traits you like: loose vs tight, bright vs dark, dry vs saturated. That narrows down you're list, and then from there it's the feel determines what's right for you.


----------



## oracles (Aug 19, 2019)

Adding the Invective to this list. 

Sat down with one again this weekend and I cant get into it for its price point. Its competing with boutique amps and the price point its listed at, and it absolutely does not hang. A 5153 gets you so much of that sound at a fraction of the cost. The Invective doesn't sound bad, but it also doesnt sound great. It's just resoundingly "meh", but no Peavey, especially a Chinese one is ever worth that cash.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636 (Aug 19, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Certainly no one will say the Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet as it is the perfect amp for everyone always.


link pls


----------



## Meeotch (Aug 19, 2019)

I agree on the Invective. Owned it maybe 2 months before moving on. Not that it was bad or anything, but I'd take a 5153 50w over it. 

The Invective has better cleans, but they are pretty warm/dark, and the built in boost on the clean channel was total rubbish. I did appreciate the variety of tones between the two lead channels, but with the shared EQ I couldn't quite find a happy medium. This is actually an overlooked beauty of the 5153 50w - you get two fully independent gain channels with their own EQ.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 22, 2019)

OliOliver said:


> I've owned an LBX, a 50w6L6, 2 100w6L6's, and finally the Stealth. None excite me, I don't know why I keep buying them.


The 6L6 Stealth? What are your impressions over the regular 6L6 100w?


----------



## oneblackened (Aug 22, 2019)

oracles said:


> Adding the Invective to this list.
> 
> Sat down with one again this weekend and I cant get into it for its price point. Its competing with boutique amps and the price point its listed at, and it absolutely does not hang. A 5153 gets you so much of that sound at a fraction of the cost. The Invective doesn't sound bad, but it also doesnt sound great. It's just resoundingly "meh", but no Peavey, especially a Chinese one is ever worth that cash.


Yup. It's literally a 6505 drive channel with (essentially) a Zuul and Grind on switches, and the clean channel is kinda like a Fender.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo (Aug 22, 2019)

The906 said:


> The 6L6 Stealth? What are your impressions over the regular 6L6 100w?



Unfortunately I'd usually buy 1 or 2 different amps between owning those and I rarely own more than one head at a time, so I've had no direct comparison between the two. Definitely has more gain, maybe feels a bit smoother? But I probably dial amps in differently than I did last time I owned the standard 100w6L6.


----------



## sharedEQ (Aug 22, 2019)

I dislike any amp that has an extra gain stage always engaged so that you don't need a boost pedal. Pretty much every peavey.

This is great when you first plug in and want to shred, until you realize the channel is worthless for anything but metal and lead guitar.

I know the kids love amps like these, but i'd rather an amp take pedals well than one that gives you that fuzzy lead guitar sound otb.

It no big deal spending 3-500 for a used XXX or JSX (have owned both they are one trick ponies)

That said, I haven't tried it, but I can't imagine spending 2K for a Peavey Invective would give me anything but buyer's remorse.


----------



## efiltsohg (Aug 22, 2019)

JSX and XXX aren't remotely one trick ponies, what are you on about

they also aren't high dollar amps or particularly talked about so you're 0/3 on the thread topic so far


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 22, 2019)

Yeah uuuh I had a XXX I got for like $250 and I got a variety of shit done with it. Especially with the active EQ.


----------



## laxu (Aug 23, 2019)

sharedEQ said:


> I dislike any amp that has an extra gain stage always engaged so that you don't need a boost pedal. Pretty much every peavey.
> 
> This is great when you first plug in and want to shred, until you realize the channel is worthless for anything but metal and lead guitar.



I hate this too. To me it makes no sense to have gain channels where 3/4 of the gain knob is useless because it just piles on more gain to the point it does not do anything but add more noise because the tone is already compressed to hell. My Diezel Einstein was like that on the 2nd channel, at 10 o'clock it had all the gain I would ever want for lead playing.

PRS MT15 for example would be better if they had dropped a gain stage or two, making the gain channel have more range. Turning your gain to max should be a viable option, I actually loved the Orange Rockerverb MK I (haven't tried the newer models) because that was how it operated.

To me the clean/crunch/lead channel setup also sucks. I would rather have several identical channels that you can set up in different ways by putting the gain knob higher or EQ in different positions. The Egnater Tourmaster I had was pretty great in that respect.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo (Aug 23, 2019)

I'm with you guys. Ironically, I absolutely adore the ENGL Firrball as I said earlier in this thread, but there is something magic about taking a mid-gain amp and pushing it way over the edge and crushing. I've considered a Rockerverb for this reason, but that price tag hurts, even for a UK resident.

EDIT: I'm well aware a Rockerverb is hardly considered "mid-gain" but it's definitely geared more towards rock than pure brutality.


----------



## LiveOVErdrive (Aug 23, 2019)

Even my 6505+ frustrates me with the amount of gain it has. I popped a 5751 into v1 and that improved things a lot, or at least made a big difference.


----------



## Cynicanal (Aug 23, 2019)

More gain stages with the gain knob lower doesn't produce the same result as fewer gain stages with the gain knob higher, guys. It's a totally different texture. If you turn down your 6505's gain knob so that it has an amount of perceived distortion like a Marshall has, it's still going to end up emphasizing the harmonics differently and giving you a different waveform shape.


----------



## Thaeon (Aug 23, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> More gain stages with the gain knob lower doesn't produce the same result as fewer gain stages with the gain knob higher, guys. It's a totally different texture. If you turn down your 6505's gain knob so that it has an amount of perceived distortion like a Marshall has, it's still going to end up emphasizing the harmonics differently and giving you a different waveform shape.



Exactly. You're stacking added harmonic content on top of added harmonic content. A really hot clean signal forcing one valve to overdrive is going to sound a lot different compared to a signal overdriving a valve that is feeding another valve and forcing it to overdrive. Clipping a clipping signal vs clipping a clean signal.


----------



## laxu (Aug 24, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> More gain stages with the gain knob lower doesn't produce the same result as fewer gain stages with the gain knob higher, guys. It's a totally different texture. If you turn down your 6505's gain knob so that it has an amount of perceived distortion like a Marshall has, it's still going to end up emphasizing the harmonics differently and giving you a different waveform shape.



I'm not going to be convinced that having gain to the point where turning the gain knob does nothing for the sound is useful. If you want more gain stages for a particular sound then at least the gain knob could be limited to a more usable range of it.


----------



## USMarine75 (Aug 24, 2019)

laxu said:


> I'm not going to be convinced that having gain to the point where turning the gain knob does nothing for the sound is useful. If you want more gain stages for a particular sound then at least the gain knob could be limited to a more usable range of it.



Thats exactly why the amp should have always come with a 12AT7 or 5751 in the PI spot.


----------



## mnemonic (Aug 24, 2019)

I think 4 gain stages (plus cathode follower if applicable) is the sweet spot for me, then I just add a boost if I need more tightness/attack. 

I haven’t really got along with amps that have 5 gain stages, like the 5150’s, etc. Don’t get me wrong, they’re a classic for a reason, but just not for me. 

The less/more switch on my Fryette GP/DI switches between 3 and 4 gain stages, and it’s a really neat feature. I wish more amps had that.


----------



## cwhitey2 (Aug 24, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> I think 4 gain stages (plus cathode follower if applicable) is the sweet spot for me, then I just add a boost if I need more tightness/attack.
> 
> I haven’t really got along with amps that have 5 gain stages, like the 5150’s, etc. Don’t get me wrong, they’re a classic for a reason, but just not for me.
> 
> The less/more switch on my Fryette GP/DI switches between 3 and 4 gain stages, and it’s a really neat feature. I wish more amps had that.


The gain switches and separate boost on my sig:x are one of the main reasons i love that amp.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 27, 2019)

Been eyeing a BE100 and finally got to have one for 3 days. Tested it with its matching cab. And it was a bit disappointing since I have an idea in my head when you say modded Marshall. The BE100 sounds crunchy, creamy, and it sure is versatile. But it just doesn't have that modded Marshall aggression and snarl. The BE100 is smooth sounding and gets smoother as you turn the gain up and saturate the signal. But yeah, it feels great to play it but I think I would choose a JVM over it.

I'll try the BE100 deluxe and see if the response and treble switches gets it some much needed aggression.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 27, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Been eyeing a BE100 and finally got to have one for 3 days. Tested it with its matching cab. And it was a bit disappointing since I have an idea in my head when you say modded Marshall. The BE100 sounds crunchy, creamy, and it sure is versatile. But it just doesn't have that modded Marshall aggression and snarl. The BE100 is smooth sounding and gets smoother as you turn the gain up and saturate the signal. But yeah, it feels great to play it but I think I would choose a JVM over it.
> 
> I'll try the BE100 deluxe and see if the response and treble switches gets it some much needed aggression.


try the butterslax


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 28, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> More gain stages with the gain knob lower doesn't produce the same result as fewer gain stages with the gain knob higher, guys. It's a totally different texture. If you turn down your 6505's gain knob so that it has an amount of perceived distortion like a Marshall has, it's still going to end up emphasizing the harmonics differently and giving you a different waveform shape.


That's what it seems like. I like to have less gain on my amps, and rely heavily on my pickups to provide more, but there is a certain point when an amp feels like it's more alive, and it correlates to the certain gain stage it's on. But there is a sweet spot between not enough gain, and too much on every amp I've played.


----------



## StevenC (Aug 28, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> try the butterslax


I played a Bogner XTC and didn't think it any better than my JVM, but the Butterslax is another level. In fairness Butterslax and JVM have way more gain than the XTC, but even so.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 28, 2019)

StevenC said:


> I played a Bogner XTC and didn't think it any better than my JVM, but the Butterslax is another level. In fairness Butterslax and JVM have way more gain than the XTC, but even so.


I figured if it was good enough for Bill to ditch his trusty JCM800, it must be pretty beastly. Also the clips I've heard of it on rig talk sounded great.


----------

