# Abasi Concepts/Larada Megathread



## HeHasTheJazzHands

https://www.facebook.com/tosin.abasi/videos/10153226214939013/

Looks like a hybrid between the singlecut BTB and a Strandberg. It's also fanned fret.

EDIT: Also, the bevel craze is real. 

EDIT:


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## ferret

Hah you beat me here.


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## kevdes93

That thing is awful and needs to be destroyed


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## Bdtunn

Interesting, parts of it are pretty cool.


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## Mangle

Looking slightly unplayable there, got to admit.


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## isispelican

dig the shape!


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## ferret

https://www.facebook.com/tosin.abasi/videos/10153226257264013/


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## Captain Butterscotch

The headstock makes it look even more awkward. Headless, it would be excellent.


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## JaxoBuzzo

I'm just pumped for more ergo/Multiscale production models.


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## Lorcan Ward

Whoever cut that nut needs to be fired, look how far in the high E string is, they messed up the string spacing too.


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## Santuzzo

I just saw this on FB, too!
I like the design a lot!


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## Tr3vor

I don't like that funny top horn(?) design. Its so ugly, even on the basses. that thing looks all sorts of funny. From an aesthetics perspective the old TAM is far superior. The fanned fret is cool though. They should just make a TAM10/100 fanned fret  I'd buy one of those TAM10s


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav

The only gripe I have is the headstock, tbh - design something new to fit it, and we got a winner


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## JP Universe

I'm a bigger Tosin fan as there is but damn is that ugly 

I'll pass!


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## Lemons

Tosin pls stahp. 

It's really just not a cohesive design.


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## StevenC

That's almost exactly what I want from a guitar, just horrible execution.


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## Galeus708

That thing looks like neckdive city.


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## Alex Kenivel




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## Nlelith

With headless design it would be pretty nice, actually...


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## TheWarAgainstTime

It looks like the fanned fret lovechild of his Rick Toone, a Dean RC, and a Roswell Rhoads


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## orion

Odd design, Looks like it could be inspired by boats. Can't find good examples but these will do.


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## wannabguitarist

I loved his old single cut. Trying to stay optimistic about this one


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## coffeeflush

Is this ibanez just working hard so that tosin and others stop playing strandberg ?


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## Khoi

Not sure if I'd rock it, but I think it's a cool step for Ibanez to embrace something like this. 

It also looks like Tosin is making the switch to Seymour Duncan for sure? Or was that confirmed earlier?


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## Nour Ayasso

wannabguitarist said:


> I loved his old single cut. Trying to stay optimistic about this one


I heavily agree, that guitar was beautiful.


coffeeflush said:


> Is this ibanez just working hard so that tosin and others stop playing strandberg ?


This protoyype doesn't really resemble a strandberg? This is for Abasi specifically so it doesn't mean much towards their expansion, but I'm sure they're trying to expand and get some sales from that crowd.


Lorcan Ward said:


> Whoever cut that nut needs to be fired, look how far in the high E string is, they messed up the string spacing too.


It's a prototype, and that's no reason to be fired. Besides, for all we know he requested that spacing so he could bend the high E higher.


Khoi said:


> Not sure if I'd rock it, but I think it's a cool step for Ibanez to embrace something like this.
> It also looks like Tosin is making the switch to Seymour Duncan for sure? Or was that confirmed earlier?


Agreed, Ibanez has definitely been innovative. And was that confirmed??? I can't find anything on him leaving Dimarzio/joining Seymour Duncan. The fact that he got a prototype with Seymour Duncans should tell us _something_


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## jwade

He had SD Sentient/Pegasus pickups put in at least a couple of his guitars pretty recently (as seen on instagram)


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## Malkav

jwade said:


> He had SD Sentient/Pegasus pickups put in at least a couple of his guitars pretty recently (as seen on instagram)



These are probably Pegasus & Sentients with active covers on them, I imagine Ibanez may not have a router template for the passive ones sorted yet.

That thing looks like a Teufel Tesla, Strandberg Boden and Ibanez RG had a 3 way and then let Jeff Kiessel at the baby.


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## jwade

I'd love to see this new one with nice open coil white pickups.


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## MrWulf

I wonder what Dimarzio is thinking now that Tosin is jumping on the Nazgul/Pegasus train.


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## TKOA-Dex

I honestly never saw anything close to this coming. Wouldn't have thought Ibanez would take that much of a leap in design! It's awesome to see fanned feet and now ergo guitars? My only wish is if they made that shape in a cheap model so I could try it!


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## Chokey Chicken

Yuck. It looks like a moon that can't decide what phase it should be. Loved his old sig, this one just looks doofy.


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## Emperor Guillotine

wannabguitarist said:


> I loved his old single cut. Trying to stay optimistic about this one



This Ibanez reminded me instantly of that single-cut custom that a Tosin has luthier Jesse Hall build him wayyyyy back in the day (in this video).



MrWulf said:


> I wonder what Dimarzio is thinking now that Tosin is jumping on the Nazgul/Pegasus train.


Actually, he might be using Blackouts, we will never know unless he explicitly says. If they are Blackouts, as opposed to passives with active covers, I thought that he was done with actives after EMG.



Malkav said:


> These are probably Pegasus & Sentients with active covers on them, I imagine Ibanez may not have a router template for the passive ones sorted yet.
> 
> That thing looks like a Teufel Tesla, Strandberg Boden and Ibanez RG had a 3 way and *then let Jeff Kiesel at the baby.*


 it's over right there! 

I wonder who told the guys at Ibanez: "top stops here".


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## MrWulf

Emperor Guillotine said:


> This Ibanez reminded me instantly of that single-cut custom that a Tosin has luthier Jesse Hall build him wayyyyy back in the day (in this video).
> 
> 
> Actually, he is using Blackouts, which is odd. I thought that he was done with actives after EMG.



I was referring to the Instagram post, but yeah. He jumped to Seymour Duncan and have a go at active again. I wonder what happen with his Ionizers.


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## CaptainD00M

I'm glad there are people that like this. Someone has to like it. Because the feelings of execration it invokes in me are probably enough for three people.

This current signature feeding frenzy that seems to developed with the Djent-Core-youtube contingent kinda makes me ambivalent. On the one hand all the developments in equipment and products available has lead to some really awesome and affordable stuff for ERG's, 7's and general cutting edge equipment tech which quite frankly I'd be screwed without some of it for recording.

But is it just me or is it starting to maybe go a little far?

Not a critique per se, just a general question. I'm pretty sure I've contradicted myself at some point along the way on this (I am a gear whore too) but I've been wondering since the explosion of Periphery related products since I came back to guitar.


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## Emperor Guillotine

CaptainD00M said:


> I'm glad there are people that like this. Someone has to like it. Because the feelings of execration it invokes in me are probably enough for three people.
> 
> This current signature feeding frenzy that seems to developed with the Djent-Core-youtube contingent kinda makes me ambivalent. On the one hand all the developments in equipment and products available has lead to some really awesome and affordable stuff for ERG's, 7's and general cutting edge equipment tech which quite frankly I'd be screwed without some of it for recording.
> 
> But is it just me or is it starting to maybe go a little far?
> 
> Not a critique per se, just a general question. I'm pretty sure I've contradicted myself at some point along the way on this (I am a gear whore too) but I've been wondering since the explosion of Periphery related products since I came back to guitar.


Oh dude, most definitely. Companies cash in on the artist name association, and of course, the fanboys want to think that they are "playing the same gear as their idols" or achieving the same tone as their idols (in regards to guitar playing or production). I do believe that everyone and their mother getting a signature everything (guitar, amp, picks, strings, pickups, presets, software, etc.) is a little over-the-top, but the companies are cashing in. Can't really blame the companies that much for wanting to make an easy profit. Right now, I'm waiting to see what the next piece of (*cough* overpriced *cough*) gear will be with the name of one of the gear-grubbing/gear-whoring Periphery guys slapped on it.

All of the Tosin diehard fanboys are loving this prototype out of their mindless "herd of sheep" fanboy mentality; meanwhile, the rest of us are like...."WTF IS DIS".


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## marcwormjim

False alarm, guys - Tosin was only showing us his peni$.


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## Alex Kenivel

marcwormjim said:


> False alarm, guys - Tosin was only showing us his peni$.


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## AngstRiddenDreams

I've seen a lot of ugly guitars but this one is the worst


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## celticelk

Emperor Guillotine said:


> All of the Tosin diehard fanboys are loving this prototype out of their mindless "herd of sheep" fanboy mentality; meanwhile, the rest of us are like...."WTF IS DIS".



Oversimplify much? I'm not a Tosin fanboy - I own a couple of AAL albums that I rarely listen to, but generally I prefer doom over djent - and I don't play 8-string anymore, but I still think this is a pretty interesting instrument. Anything that breaks out of the tired superstrat ERG aesthetic, to my mind, is an unqualified good. If you don't like it, well, no one's making you play one.


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## Khoi

Nour Ayasso said:


> Agreed, Ibanez has definitely been innovative. And was that confirmed??? I can't find anything on him leaving Dimarzio/joining Seymour Duncan. The fact that he got a prototype with Seymour Duncans should tell us _something_



He did pedal demos for Seymour Duncan and even replaced his Ionizers in his main signature guitars for SD pickups. That's would be a pretty big deal if he was still with DiMarzio! Also Seymour Duncan shared that picture of his prototype and asked what people thought.


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## CaptainD00M

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Oh dude, most definitely.



I mean all companies cash in on things, otherwise you don't make profit so I get that. I just feel that at the moment its reached an exponentially pronounced saturation point. But just when you think it can't get any more saturated it usually does...

Of course that said I could very well be looking at the whole thing with rose tints, and there was a period in my guitar playing where I was a fanboy for two different guitarists and wanted all their junk so I don't begrudge anyone being a fan boy, but how much is too much product wise?

That said Guillotine I do have to say that there are probably a lot of people like Celticelk who like the new aesthetic and aren't AAL fans, and he does have a point about companies churning out variations on superstrats. Still its not for me, but you'd catch me shredding on a mossrite before an 8 string anyway


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## Cloudy

Ibanez just released some HD pictures of the new model...


but seriously:


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## kevdes93

Absolutely hate it, but that's just my opinion blah blah


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## gorthul

Was not so sure about the shape when I saw the videos, but when I see those pics I kinda like it. But it would still be better if it would be headless.


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## CaptainD00M

It looks a lot better in these picks but that upper bout horrifies me. But hey someone will love it.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Agreed that it needs to be a headless. The headstock doesn't fit at all. 

Even with no headstock I'd hate it, though. It looks hideous.  I dig the natural back on finished top, though.


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## Bdtunn

If that horn curved down it might kinda got the lines.
Yeah headless and this would might work.
Good on ibanez for doing something others then an s or rg.


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## Emperor Guillotine

So it legitimately is split down the middle. The upper half is a whacky Kiesel single cut, and the lower half is a Strandberg.

There you go, guys! Your dreams came true.


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## OmegaSlayer

Cloudy said:


> Ibanez just released some HD pictures of the new model...
> 
> 
> but seriously:



Looks awesome to use it as a tool to put pizzas into the oven.

Out of the many wrong things in this guitar, I think the worse one is the glossy finish.
Natural wood on body and headstock would save this guitar a big deal.


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## CaptainD00M

OmegaSlayer said:


> Looks awesome to use it as a tool to put pizzas into the oven.



I was thinking it looks like a mate of mine's Bardiche replica. I'm pretty sure you could earn yourself a nice GBH charge if you swung it just right.


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## Musiscience

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Oh dude, most definitely. Companies cash in on the artist name association, and of course, the fanboys want to think that they are "playing the same gear as their idols" or achieving the same tone as their idols (in regards to guitar playing or production). I do believe that everyone and their mother getting a signature everything (guitar, amp, picks, strings, pickups, presets, software, etc.) is a little over-the-top, but the companies are cashing in. Can't really blame the companies that much for wanting to make an easy profit. Right now, I'm waiting to see what the next piece of (*cough* overpriced *cough*) gear will be with the name of one of the gear-grubbing/gear-whoring Periphery guys slapped on it.
> 
> All of the Tosin diehard fanboys are loving this prototype out of their mindless "herd of sheep" fanboy mentality; meanwhile, the rest of us are like...."WTF IS DIS".



Pretty ignorant to think that you could only like a design if you are a fan of the artist. You might want to consider that your opinion is subjective and does not apply to "everyone in their right mind". Tastes are personal, you should respect that much. Personally, I don't play 8 strings nor do I want to, but I think the design is original for an Ibanez and Teuffel like.


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## JaxoBuzzo

Making it headless would be incredible, but it would just fuel the strandberg ripoff comments, other than the lower half of the body, I don't see it, but I wonder what Ola has to say about it? 


I still just think it's cool to see an ibanez that isn't an RG or S.


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## JaxoBuzzo

I also think it's far more suiting and tasteful than the gaudy TAM100.


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## The Hiryuu

I'd buy the .... out of that regardless of it being a signature model. I give zero ....s either way. That guitar looks awesome to me.


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## The Hiryuu

Malkav said:


> These are probably Pegasus & Sentients with active covers on them, I imagine Ibanez may not have a router template for the passive ones sorted yet.
> 
> That thing looks like a Teufel Tesla, Strandberg Boden and Ibanez RG had a 3 way and then let Jeff Kiessel at the baby.



Nah, the bevel would be a different color for some reason and the fretboard would be stained if Kiesel got to it.


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## CaptainD00M

I'd ease up on Emperorguillotine man, I think we all know what he's getting at. I mean come on how many people have oversimplified something to make a point, especially in text and on an online forum.

And lets be real here the whole point of a signature guitar is to give fans an opportunity to buy the same guitar that their idol plays, so there will be a LOT of people who by it because it has Tosin's name on it.

But sure there will also be people who like non-standard shaped guitars who like it too, and who knows maybe it will be like the KM-7 where a lot of guy's simply buy it for the awesome spec&#8230; but I suspect Ibanez know's who their clientele is on this on.

thats my


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## elkinz

its really bizarre but I kind of like it in a way? I don't know I have a feeling this is the very simplified version of the full one to come - just like the lacs prototype of his TAM100. Much more simple than the final version.

I think if it had some nice wood going on, and headless, and passives I could dig this a lot!


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav

On the whole pickup company thing - it's not showing he's a Seymour Duncan artist on their site, tho he's also not showing up in the DiMarzio "players" section... Still has his name on the Ionizers, tho


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Given how several of his personal guitars have Pegasus/Sentients in them, and this new guitar either has Blackouts or some special dealies, I'm willing to bet he's going to be on the Duncan train sometime next year.


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## Malkav

The Hiryuu said:


> Nah, the bevel would be a different color for some reason and the fretboard would be stained if Kiesel got to it.




Touché

Anyway, I'm glad he digs it and all. Not mad about it aesthetically myself, which is weird because single-cut ergonomic fanned fret 8 string sounds like a whole lot of win to me, just don't like the execution of that one.


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## Emperor Guillotine

CaptainD00M said:


> I was thinking it looks like a mate of mine's Bardiche replica. I'm pretty sure you could earn yourself a nice GBH charge if you swung it just right.


 I said that it looks like a bardiche or a halberd blade.


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## Slunk Dragon

Keeping in mind that this is a prototype, there's no telling what could change on it. And I am all over seeing more ergonomic guitar ideas AND fanned fret guitars like this in mass production.

But that being said, I just can't find a reason to like this guitar. If Tosin loves it, obviously it's playable, but it just has nothing going for it in looks. Primarily I think this guitar just doesn't work with a normal headstock.

But perhaps public opinion will help narrow this down? Or maybe they're still testing this stuff out? I guess time will tell what will happen.


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## wannabguitarist

Come on Ibanez/Tosin. Do it.


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## Galeus708

Now that there's HD pics, it doesn't look quite as bad, but it still doesn't look good. For some reason, it reminds me of when Matt Heafy of Trivium was with Dean, and they were experimenting with new body shapes for his signature model. The results of these experiments were this.

(Come to think of it, I bet that thing neck-dived like a bitch too  )

Anyway, that eventually got dumped, and the MKH Dean signature ended up being just an ML with a custom paintjob on it. Whether or not this will go the same way remains to be seen. I just can't really imagine a model like this selling too well. But I could be wrong.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Galeus708 said:


> this.








The ....ing headstock is bigger than the body.


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## Emperor Guillotine

wannabguitarist said:


> Come on Ibanez/Tosin. Do it.


Years later.....this finally resurfaces.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Like a beached whale. 


Seriously, it looks like a whale.


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## guitarneeraj

I like the design, and more so because a signature instrument is not just a "customized" production model, it should be an extension of the artist's creative vision. Tosin would do justice to this instrument. Wish they make a 7 string version too!


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## Simic

The thing that bothers me the most about this guitar is the pickup selector placement.. Just looks so wrong xD


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## Opion

My opinion on this is that it truly is what should be considered a "Signature" guitar - it seems like it fits Tosin's aesthetics more. I think it fits him very well, and yes, it is likely not something most people will prefer - but that's great! He is bringing more demand for fanned frets and ergonomic guitar shapes to a bigger market, and that to me means a lot more than just a shape some people might think is ugly.


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## Khoi

Similar to CLAAS as well, except the bottom right part of the guitar. Not totally unique, definitely seen stuff kinda like it before


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## Vhyle

That thing is absolutely hideous.


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## ThePIGI King

I'd play it, and I'd probably like it. It looks unique, and it's a sig, if he likes it, then that's what matters.


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## NorCal_Val

I dig it.
I own a Klein, so I'm pre-disposed to liking unusual shapes.


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## Slunk Dragon

Being reminded of those CLAAS guitars does make me reconsider the body shape on Tosin's... SLIGHTLY.


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## frahmans

now that's a signature. it's good for tosin because he has something easily identifiable as being the tosin signature. and it shows that the ibanez custom shop can do custom shapes too. I hope these come with q-tuners like the original one he based the design in.


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## cip 123

To me this just reminds me of Tosins' style. It looks like a guitar built for a technician, wit the ergonomics and the control placement. Looks like its completley for Technique which is one thing I always just hear too much of in Tosins' playing.

Doesn't look like someone would be jumping around on stage with it, and beating the strings without hitting a switch.


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## JaxoBuzzo

Khoi said:


> Similar to CLAAS as well, except the bottom right part of the guitar. Not totally unique, definitely seen stuff kinda like it before



Unique for a production model guitar.. Yes.


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## Nour Ayasso

CaptainD00M said:


> I'd ease up on Emperorguillotine man, I think we all know what he's getting at.


I get the gist of what he said, it's been said/discussed before. It's just annoying seeing another comment like this said in an ignorant/opinionated way almost seeming irrelevant to this thread. 


elkinz said:


> I have a feeling this is the very simplified version of the full one to come - just like the lacs prototype of his TAM100. Much more simple than the final version.





Slunk Dragon said:


> Keeping in mind that this is a prototype, there's no telling what could change on it. And I am all over seeing more ergonomic guitar ideas AND fanned fret guitars like this in mass production.


Agreed! Though this is a prototype which means Abasi and Ibanez put a lot of thought into it before building it. That being said, it's a simplified version but it's going to be the basic idea, I don't think they'll change to a wood finish unless they had that in mind in the first place. Or maybe I'm wrong and Tosin got it and cringed when he saw the finish and shape. It is an experiment right? xD


Zeno said:


> On the whole pickup company thing - it's not showing he's a Seymour Duncan artist on their site, tho he's also not showing up in the DiMarzio "players" section... Still has his name on the Ionizers, tho


Dang...That definitely settles it, he obviously left Dimarzio  wonder when they'll announce he's with Seymour Duncan.


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## InfinityCollision

I can dig it. The horn ought to be redone (a superstrat's horn looks out of place in this design) and the upper bout's shape could be refined a bit, but the idea's not half bad.


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## odibrom

I think that it is pretty awesome that a company that mass products guitars as Ibanez, is doing this kind of forward thinking and letting the guitar players input their thoughts on the design besides only the final aesthetics.

Ibanez is pushing the envelope on other companies (on the same market level*), leaving them behind, far behind and it is also awesome to see Tosin as one of the maestros in this process.

As far as testes go, I like the overall design, I think it is refreshing and truly out of the conventional Gibson/Fender styles. Is it a copy of others? not totally, but they surely innovated here and I like this better than the single cuts on their bass workshop series.

On the DiMarzio/SeymourDuncan, I think that DiMarzio should rethink their approach on the artists/public demand and start a more flexible line of business. Bad for some, good for others...

*Note - I am thinking on ESP, Schecter, Jackson...


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## Low Baller

Tosin: So I switched to Duncan's and I am thinking its time for a change...I talked to Strandberg today...

Ibanez: Whoa hold on Tosin we have a contract.

Tosin: I am Tosin f***ing Abasi! I am the metal messiah, the shred profit, the next guitar god so I can just shred the contract

Ibanez: Listen Tosin we are sorry please just listen.

Tosin: NO! All the djentleman on SSO say strandbergs are the sh*t and here I am playing a working mans guitar.

Ibanez: Tosin what if we built you a Strandberg it will be just as good, just one thing.

Tosin: What?!

Ibanez: Can we keep the headstock? Look we just need our name there so people know we are friends and we can be accepted.

Tosin:......If you keep the headstock it must be the most bad ass axe. I want it painted with unicorn blood and the tears of Chuck Norris...Then paint over it matte black because that's f***ing metal.

Ibanez: *whispers* (unicorns aren't real and chuck Norris doesn't cry) Ahem yeah sure Tosin all that of course.

That's the actual conversation.

Personally I don't dig the Strandberg look but many do I am sure it's a great guitar.


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## Nour Ayasso

^lmfao  
Should have made him say "I'm the next guitar god" for good measure..


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## elkinz

I don't have the link to it, but I saw a headless photo shopped version and I liked it a whole lot more! These sort of ergonomic shapes suit headless characteristics. And with a shape like that surely it would help with balance 

I think itd look super sick with passives, and a nice wood finish that aint just black - even though the black is nice too. And his typical wenge neck.

I guess im just TRYing to like it more really.. hahaha


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## Splinterhead

Cool concept.
I say off with its head and a natural finish would make this a bit more enticing...at least for me.


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## Low Baller

Nour Ayasso said:


> ^lmfao
> Should have made him say "I'm the next guitar god" for good measure..



Edited with some flare added.


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## VigilSerus

Lorcan Ward said:


> Whoever cut that nut needs to be fired, look how far in the high E string is, they messed up the string spacing too.



Funny, Tosin just posted a video saying he loves the string spacing.

https://instagram.com/p/92WuVSC6vA/


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## Nour Ayasso

He just posted a video, I'm bad at linking so I took a screenshot. Lets take note to them hashtags.


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## Ericjutsu

what the scale length? Please say the low F#/E is 28 inches.


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## Khoi

it doesn't look half as bad standing up!


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## HexaneLake

I favor it. It's interesting, for sure. Headstock dosent fit though, I'll agree to that.

The Strandberg and Kiesel influence is definitely there, but also Rick Toone! Looks like his Tiger Shark.


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## OmegaSlayer

Nour Ayasso said:


> He just posted a video, I'm bad at linking so I took a screenshot. Lets take note to them hashtags.



One day I think it's acceptable, the day after I realize I wouldn't even use it to hold my cat's litter box.
Biggest problem is the cut with the Ibanez kind of horn, it doesn't fit at all.


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## Khoi

THAT'S where I saw a single cut like that before, even before the Claas! Ibanez is definitely not too unfamiliar with the extended single cut shape. I'm personally not a fan, but I do like the bottom part of Tosin's sig:


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## lewis

i just photoshopped this. My god it looks better headless -


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## jeremyb

I think it's epic, I hope they do a cheaper model that us plebs here in the southern hemisphere can afford it!


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## lewis

jeremyb said:


> I think it's epic, I hope they do a cheaper model that us plebs here in the southern hemisphere can afford it!



wont the new Iron label fanned fret 8 string that looks awesome be cheaper than this Sig guitar when it drops?

Thats the one Im going to be getting.


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## Fraz666

lewis said:


> wont the new Iron label fanned fret 8 string that looks awesome be cheaper than this Sig guitar when it drops?
> 
> Thats the one Im going to be getting.


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## Fathand

Awesome concept, though not necessarily a total hit for my tastes. But if it works for him =


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## Tr3vor

after seeing the top down view, its not actually THAT bad, but that BTB Terra Firma top horn thingy is gross, it should go away and never return. also the pickup selector is in a funny spot.


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## glassmoon0fo

As a prototype, kinda hoping they go somewhere with the color. I'm sure they will, but I've always dug Tosin's choice in color palettes and black on dot inlays is WAY beneath him. As far as the design, I'm game


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Not sure if this is true or not, but it's possibly a 27'' - 25.5'' fan. Very close to the Iron Label.


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## jwade

It looks kind of like even less of a fan than that, maybe 27-26?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

jwade said:


> It looks kind of like even less of a fan than that, maybe 27-26?



That's according to Darren, who apparently had a small hand in designing it.


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## Zalbu

I like it, more ergonomic fanned frets is never a bad thing


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav

cip 123 said:


> Doesn't look like someone would be jumping around on stage with it, and beating the strings without hitting a switch.



That sure as hell ain't gonna stop me from trying


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## canuck brian

odibrom said:


> I think that it is pretty awesome that a company that mass products guitars as Ibanez, is doing this kind of forward thinking and letting the guitar players input their thoughts on the design besides only the final aesthetics.
> 
> Ibanez is pushing the envelope on other companies (on the same market level*), leaving them behind, far behind and it is also awesome to see Tosin as one of the maestros in this process.
> 
> As far as testes go, I like the overall design, I think it is refreshing and truly out of the conventional Gibson/Fender styles. Is it a copy of others? not totally, but they surely innovated here and I like this better than the single cuts on their bass workshop series.
> 
> On the DiMarzio/SeymourDuncan, I think that DiMarzio should rethink their approach on the artists/public demand and start a more flexible line of business. Bad for some, good for others...
> 
> *Note - I am thinking on ESP, Schecter, Jackson...



You really need to never be in charge of marketing. Ever. 

The 8 string market is probably under 1% of Ibanez' business so they're definitely not leaving everyone in the dust, nor are they being innovative when they're essentially just jumping on a bandwagon by going even more niche with a weird looking, fanned fret 8. Ibanez has a unique (RG) look which has been copied relentlessly by everyone (including myself) because its the product everyone wants. All they're doing is taking a chance on a really weird looking product that they hope will sell a few units and keep Tosin Abasi on their artist list. Again, this isn't forward thinking. This is a VERY niche product within a niche market with even more picky players. 

Is it a copy of others? No, but it's basically a strandberg/ibby BTB bass design with a very trendy bevel using the same control routing programming and designs of the Iron Label 8's. THe only thing that's really changed here is the body design and the location of production. They've also gone and done a stupid and used the giant soapbars again that are almost universally hated by everyone. Thats not innovation. Hell, Rondo Music beat everyone to the punch years ago on this.

I'm really lost by the "more flexible" business line from Duncan and Dimarzio as they've got an absolutely ridiculous amount of products, catering to practically every type of music you could possibly think of. What exactly are you looking for these companies to produce and why exactly would they? Do you want them to create another set of signature pickups for an artist only to have them jump ship a year later after the models have been released? 

If you're looking down at Jackson, ESP or Schecter because of this guitar and the fact that the those companies haven't done it, stop. Why would they even bother? They've got a working business model, products people are buying in droves and their popularity is only increasing with models from Jackson like the Bulb sigs, Schecter with the new KM series after already making the guitar that everyone is basically ordering as customs from other companies, and ESP with ...ok ESP needs to make more extended scale range guitars, but since Schecter/ESP are basically the same company on the level of import guitars, diluting your product line with another product pulls sales away from established revenue streams. Ibanez hasn't been able to release a product to even remotely compete with Bulb's lines of 6 and 7's, let alone the Schecter KM series guitars delivering $2000-$3000 guitar features in a $1000 package, and every single year, they (Ibanez) re-issue guitars and build them completely different from the actual reissues.

To sum up, get off Ibanez's dick. It's cool to see something different from Ibanez and lets hope they keep going in a newer creative direction rather than re-issuing 25 year old guitars that can't hold a candle to the actual guitar that they're supposed to be a reissue of.


----------



## Triple7

I really like it...


----------



## GunpointMetal

I don't get having a "low" string on an 8 if you're not gonna give it enough scale length....


----------



## lewis

GunpointMetal said:


> I don't get having a "low" string on an 8 if you're not gonna give it enough scale length....



range is range surely?. You dont necessarily buy a 7 and 8 string just for the lower string being as low as possible each time?

For example my 8 strings low is a Gb or Ab depending on what im writing, which is commonly more a 7 string tuning. So my 8 is effectively a 7 string with an extra high. It was just about adding more notes to me and not "I need a 30inch scale length because I own an 8 string and of course that means the low is going to have to be Drop Db0"


----------



## Shane Sanders

I don't see this particular bevel as 'trendy' ... it serves as the arm bevel and is totally ergonomic in keeping with the overall intention of the design. It then goes on to visually harmonize with the upper bout, completing that arc. As a guitar designer, I find that a very nice visual/functional solution. I immediately thought of the Claas Moby Dick, though, but this shape probably predates even that approach. 

Agree with everyone that it looks better headless and probably would have been just as cool.


----------



## canuck brian

Shane Sanders said:


> As a guitar designer, I find that a very nice visual/functional solution.
> Agree with everyone that it looks better headless and probably would have been just as cool.



As a luthier, i find it trendy. If i release a guitar with anything close to that bevel, I'll get called out for following trends if history serves me properly. It's still a viable functional solution. Carvin, Schecter and Ibanez have all doing giant bevels in very recent days.


----------



## Spectivum

I learn about weird things here every day...


----------



## Deception

Back view







From instagram vid 

https://instagram.com/p/94dzmtC6gc/


----------



## Chokey Chicken

GunpointMetal said:


> I don't get having a "low" string on an 8 if you're not gonna give it enough scale length....



Considering it's for one of the few people who actually utilizes the range, I don't think what you or anyone has to say about scale length really matters. If it works for him it works for him. Also the whole "x scale isn't long enough" thing needs to die. I've been playing a 26.5" scale 8 in whole step down tuning for a while now with absolutely zero issues. Scale length is overplayed 'round here.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

Deception said:


> Back view
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From instagram vid
> 
> https://instagram.com/p/94dzmtC6gc/





Maaaan. Not as stoked on that now everything was cool, but that heel. If it works for him, that's cool, but I was hoping for something a little less...standard?


----------



## mongey

while I applaud innovation and adopting new ideas by the big guitar companies , that thing is fugly


----------



## brutalwizard

I want it.....


----------



## technomancer

canuck brian said:


> To sum up, get off Ibanez's dick. It's cool to see something different from Ibanez and lets hope they keep going in a newer creative direction rather than re-issuing 25 year old guitars that can't hold a candle to the actual guitar that they're supposed to be a reissue of.



Aaaand you just went a bit too far. Simmer down a bit


----------



## elkinz

honestly the more I see it in different angles, the more im liking it. The back view kinda relit the flame for me, its a really strange a quirky design but it REALLY suits tosin! Hes always had weird looking guitars  

very excited to see the finished product


----------



## Wildebeest

I like it


----------



## technomancer

I love Tosin's playing but damn is that ugly


----------



## Khoi

Looks like the neck shape might be trapezoidal as well? That's what I'm seeing in his latest video of the back. Back of the neck looks really flat, and you can kinda see an angular cut starting from the cutaways

https://www.facebook.com/tosin.abasi/videos/10153228925459013/


----------



## canuck brian

technomancer said:


> Aaaand you just went a bit too far. Simmer down a bit



Yeah....I know. Apologies for that. That was definitely out of line. 

Edit - is the neck just a one piece?


----------



## A-Branger

weird......

I like the bottom half, but like the bottom horn cut were the bevel is, that would look better,,, and that would make it more like a stanberg I guess. The top half, not sure, maybe is the bevel that is trowing me off. I dont mind the superhorn thing, but the round bevel, mmmm... weird

or maybe is the mix of satin finish for the top and gloss for the bevels that makes it looks weird??


but something I notice on that link that someone pointed out. This is a bolt-on guitar. Meaning the superhorn is pretty much useless, as is not attached to the neck. The whole idea is to add more strength and stability by making a bigger area like in the BTB basses, but this is just a big horn.

Tonny replis that comment saying that the superhorn still adds a lot of resonance and tone.

imo I think they are missing the point of the superhorn by making it bolt-on


----------



## TGOD

Meh, I agree that a headless design would be better, but I like it overall and would definitely play it if I had the chance.

I'd definitely prefer if it were neck-thru/set-in, but that's no deal breaker. The only real negative I can think of, imo, is that I wish the lower horn were more "strandberg"-ish, as in not curved like a traditional horn, just cut sort of straight. Ya know, like a strandberg lower horn. It'd make the guitar a bit more appealing, imo.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

technomancer said:


> Aaaand you just went a bit too far. Simmer down a bit


Yeah I agree, not to be a meanie and team up against you Brian but at least let him have his opinion, odibrom had some good points! 


canuck brian said:


> I'm really lost by the "more flexible" business line from Duncan and Dimarzio as they've got an absolutely ridiculous amount of products, catering to practically every type of music you could possibly think of. What exactly are you looking for these companies to produce and why exactly would they? Do you want them to create another set of signature pickups for an artist only to have them jump ship a year later after the models have been released?


That being said, I want to say I agree with you on this and I thought DiMarzio and Abasi were working out fine? He got his signature pickups and seemed really happy about them. And then, like you said, he just jumped to Seymour Duncan, which I still don't understand how you leave a company after designing a signature model with them. I know his tastes may have changed, I don't mean to say what he can and can't play, but leaving the company and choosing new pickups sort of disregards the ionizers completely?


GunpointMetal said:


> I don't get having a "low" string on an 8 if you're not gonna give it enough scale length....


I agree with this, even though it's personal preference I think we should acknowledge the science behind scale lengths and how it scientifically affects the tone. More importantly, this reeeeally makes sense with multi-scales, why make one if you're not going to boost the low end with a 27+ scale? Especially, for Abasi since he said he has to use Blur for Physical Education to get better tone. I assume he would aim for a bigger scale for that exact reason.

Also, I'm really digging how he keeps the back of his signatures natural, I love the look!


----------



## Haun

I just think it's refreshing that Ibanez is starting to do something new with this. Don't get me wrong, I love my RG but I don't think the market needs another... or another S...

Edit: Here's what I said on the Seymour Duncan facebook post.

"Love the concept, but I'd like to se the body shape and features realized with the cosmetic appointments (white see-through, gold hardware, passive routes, white open coil pickups, HSH etc.) of his current signature. I think that would be nicer.

Edit2: And the neck looks like a 3-piece maple to me, but he'll probably go for a wenge multi piece neck like on his current sig., since that seems to be one of the features that he really enjoys.


----------



## canuck brian

Nour Ayasso said:


> Yeah I agree, not to be a meanie and team up against you Brian but at least let him have his opinion, odibrom had some good points! ?



no worries - i was very jackassy. 

I wouldn't worry about the color and whatnot on this though - if it's just a prototype, there's no way he goes from the flashy sig model he has (which is awesome) to this very plain, albeit radically shaped, guitar. 

Is there anything like a LACS symbol on the back of this or was it produced overseas?


----------



## TankJon666

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



I'm no doubt in the minority but I think this looks feckin awesome!!


----------



## cip 123

I would've just like a guitar version of the BTB but the cuts on this just look awful imo.


----------



## vertibration

Ugly guitar. I guess Ugly is in


----------



## lewis

i think the problem here is that fine line between it being a "Signature" guitar what the artist wants himself, and have to be appealing enough to the public.~~

Firstly the things that people dont like about it, Tosin may LOVE, being his signature and all and secondly you dont know if the downsides to the guitar are things Ibanez have enforced on the model to hope it sells better (or in the case of the headstock, make sure it still clearly shows "Ibanez" despite the guitar looking better without one)

Realistically, its like anything. If you dont like it, dont buy it.
Its his guitar and truthfully how many people here would take that, and shred it until they bled, if they were Tosin and playing live all around the world being given that guitar for free, even if they didnt like it?


----------



## Andromalia

Well, the good news is that Ibanez is going a bit offtrack these years with putting fanned frets and stuff to the public. As I don't play and don't plan to play 8 strings I just have a spectator look. guitar may be ugly but it's still better than only having a choice between an RG and another RG.


----------



## Miek

I like the looks of it but I'm more interested in how it feels with it sitting on my lap.


----------



## Tr3vor

I like the placement of the cable jack, its out of the way, unlike on RGs. I like to play in the "classical" position or whatever, where the guitar is on my left leg. The cable always likes to bump my chair. I wish more guitars put cable jacks like this one.


----------



## Konfyouzd




----------



## Konfyouzd

Chokey Chicken said:


> Considering it's for one of the few people who actually utilizes the range, I don't think what you or anyone has to say about scale length really matters. If it works for him it works for him. Also the whole "x scale isn't long enough" thing needs to die. I've been playing a 26.5" scale 8 in whole step down tuning for a while now with absolutely zero issues. Scale length is overplayed 'round here.



QFT 

26.5" ftw


----------



## canuck brian

Tr3vor said:


> I like the placement of the cable jack, its out of the way, unlike on RGs. I like to play in the "classical" position or whatever, where the guitar is on my left leg. The cable always likes to bump my chair. I wish more guitars put cable jacks like this one.



I think all the Brian Moore guitars have these. I think.


----------



## Miek

canuck brian said:


> I think all the Brian Moore guitars have these. I think.



I also think you're right. I also also think that this jack seems to be placed further in, with the entire trs assembly inside the guitar's silhouette, with only the cable extending outwards. Which, while not revolutionary, seems like a really nice touch towards jack/plug assembly longevity.


----------



## Cosmic Junglist

It's just occurred to me that Tosin may have, to a certain degree, based this new signature model on his Sketch guitar by Rick Toone.






If what he says about the comfort of Sketch is true, that Ibanez may well play like butter.


----------



## TheBigGroove

I think this looks sick....but, I'm all about ergonomic guitars these days.


----------



## GenghisCoyne

i wish this lower horn was on the BTB bass. I vote like it.


----------



## JoeyBTL

As far as the pickup situation is concerned, has Dimarzio even made any slanted pickups? If this is the direction Tosin wants to go with his next sig and Dimarzio isn't willing to comply, maybe its as simple as that...?


----------



## technomancer

Cosmic Junglist said:


> It's just occurred to me that Tosin may have, to a certain degree, based this new signature model on his Sketch guitar by Rick Toone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If what he says about the comfort of Sketch is true, that Ibanez may well play like butter.



There's nothing on the Sketch that isn't borrowed from other ergonomic guitars


----------



## Nour Ayasso

JoeyBTL said:


> As far as the pickup situation is concerned, has Dimarzio even made any slanted pickups? If this is the direction Tosin wants to go with his next sig and Dimarzio isn't willing to comply, maybe its as simple as that...?



daaaaang point made.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

https://www.facebook.com/tosin.abasi/videos/10153230404529013/

Here's it doing the heavies with an MXR 5150 pedal.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

JoeyBTL said:


> As far as the pickup situation is concerned, has Dimarzio even made any slanted pickups? If this is the direction Tosin wants to go with his next sig and Dimarzio isn't willing to comply, maybe its as simple as that...?



Most likely! Dimarzio hasn't made a slanted pickup while SD have a custom shop which will make anything for regular customers.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Khoi said:


> Looks like the neck shape might be trapezoidal as well? That's what I'm seeing in his latest video of the back. Back of the neck looks really flat, and you can kinda see an angular cut starting from the cutaways
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/tosin.abasi/videos/10153228925459013/


Looks rounded but super flat to me. Just watched, paused, rewound, played the video again a few times.


----------



## The Reverend

I'm interested in this just because it'll likely be my only chance to go to a guitar shop and play an ergonomic guitar. As far as the design goes, I think it would look a lot more proportionate with a headless system in place. The elongated Ibanez headstock on their eights has always screwed with me, but on a body that gives the illusion of being small, it really looks like a f--ked up paddle. 

I hope this isn't like the final prototype, where they're getting his final critiques and input. But like others here, I think it's incredible that the larger companies are starting to develop a bit more of an interest in what us niche players are into. I remember the days of very few offerings, and even fewer that were affordable and lacked ubergoth stylings.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

What would SSO from 2009 think if they heard that Ibanez was planning on releasing an ergonomically shaped multiscale 8 string? Do you think they'd pick it apart and wine about it? 

I like it. Headstock and all. Props to Ibanez.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

https://www.facebook.com/tosin.abasi/videos/10153230678699013/

His hashtags are funny hehe


----------



## PunchLine

I love it. It is a fusion of Ovation Breadwinner / Klein Guitar, BTB685 / 686SC; of course with a modern, original touch. It looks ergonomic and balanced. I think Ibanez designs the best looking headstock shapes among all guitar manufacturers since the late 70's, so I am pro headstock here. They fixed RGIF8's ugly-looking piece of fretboard after nut. I just hope that the production model will not be as expensive as the TAM100. 

I had a feeling that Tosin started working on a FF model as soon as the Iron Label FF protoype was announced as he mentioned he was incorporating more string bends, etc. into his playing lately and that is hard on the joints with the regular 8 string.


----------



## Edika

Am I the only one getting an itch to play Golden Axe seeing this guitar?


----------



## NorCal_Val

I know it's not "*metal*", but I'm still digging it.


----------



## drmosh

I don't like it, but the fact that Ibanez is willing to do a new shape (which they wouldn't do for John Petrucci!) is interesting


----------



## MattThePenguin

Only thing that I hope for is that DiMarzio continues production on the Ionizer pickups. I want to put them in the Keith Merrow MkII next year. Have them in my KM7 right now and they're so great.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I don't see why they wouldn't, if they're really popular. They'll probably rebadge them like they did the YJM pickups.


----------



## Spicypickles

This seems super "niche" to be an actual signature guitar, as opposed to a one off custom.


I dig it, but the pickup selector switch is in THE lamest spot ever and just throws that lower bout even more than it already is.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## GunpointMetal

Chokey Chicken said:


> Considering it's for one of the few people who actually utilizes the range, I don't think what you or anyone has to say about scale length really matters. If it works for him it works for him. Also the whole "x scale isn't long enough" thing needs to die. I've been playing a 26.5" scale 8 in whole step down tuning for a while now with absolutely zero issues. Scale length is overplayed 'round here.



I don't care what Tosin does, I look at every new instrument as "would I play this?" and beside the hideous body design (to me, obviously), 27" is not really enough length for an E. I played a couple of 26.5" Schecters in E for years, and thought they sounded fine....until I got to play something with a true baritone scale. then I realised that that E at 26.5" wasn't giving me nearly as much as as it was at a longer scale as far as play-ability and depth of tone. Obviously these are all opinions, but I'm not going to be buying anything meant to be tuned below A without at least 28" on the low side.


----------



## Insomnia

Ewwww. I love Tosin, but that thing is ugly...and not in a Toone way.

A fanned fret TAM model would be AMAZING!


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Confirmed that the pickups are a Duncan Pegasus/Sentient set.


----------



## Masoo2

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>




Look behind Tosin to (our) left.


----------



## Tr3vor

Masoo2 said:


> Look behind Tosin to (our) left.



Oh no, he let the cat out of the bag

Edit: also, after watching all his demo videos and stuff, I'm a bit annoyed. I'd rather see him play some AaL music on the thing instead of improv shredding, which does absolutely nothing for me. whatever floats his boat I guess.


----------



## chassless

Masoo2 said:


> Look behind Tosin to (our) left.



what? what is it? what is it we should look out for?


----------



## JP Universe

I prepared for this moment and specced out my own Tosin sig instead


----------



## the.godfather

That is still the best Strandberg and one of the nicest guitars to date. I love that thing!

As for the new Tosin model...I actually don't hate it. Plus every video that Tosin posts on his Instagram with it the thing sounds great.


----------



## Masoo2

chassless said:


> what? what is it? what is it we should look out for?



Another TAM prototype, but in a white/creme color.

EDIT: New vid with a better shot of the white model

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2OXUWdhTZI


----------



## A-Branger

I would say more like natural wood


----------



## Chokey Chicken

GunpointMetal said:


> I don't care what Tosin does, I look at every new instrument as "would I play this?" and beside the hideous body design (to me, obviously), 27" is not really enough length for an E. I played a couple of 26.5" Schecters in E for years, and thought they sounded fine....until I got to play something with a true baritone scale. then I realised that that E at 26.5" wasn't giving me nearly as much as as it was at a longer scale as far as play-ability and depth of tone. Obviously these are all opinions, but I'm not going to be buying anything meant to be tuned below A without at least 28" on the low side.



You said you didn't get why anyone would make one. My response was simply that other people, including prominent ones who utilize the range and don't just zero chug, are more than happy with shorter scales than you prefer. What's to "get" about it?


----------



## Zalbu

Wait a second, aren't the Pegasus/Sentient pickups passives? Are the covers just for cosmetics sake?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Zalbu said:


> Wait a second, aren't the Pegasus/Sentient pickups passives? Are the covers just for cosmetics sake?



Yeah, they're passive. And they're probably covered for that reason.


----------



## Zalbu

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah, they're passive. And they're probably covered for that reason.


Thought as much, I have the same thing on my VGS Soulmaster 7. Wonder if he's working on any signature pickups with SD.


----------



## MrPepperoniNipples

I feel like this was supposed to be headless but it ended up with a headstock.

Would have looked absolutely incredible if it was headless.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I don't think Ibanez has any headless hardware yet, which is why he went with a headstocked version. If Ibanez starts producing their own headless hardware, I'd imagine we'd get one.


----------



## ThePIGI King

Hopefully all of this fanned fret stuff Ibby is doing will sell well to force their competitors into doing it. Plus, if others started fanning guitars, we could see a lowering in price and eventually have a good market on them. If Ibby starts headless too, I may have to reconsider my relationship with them


----------



## redstone

lewis said:


> i just photoshopped this. My god it looks better headless -



I don't think so.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

Guys. Seriously. Stop filling my head with the idea of a headless, fanned, ergo ibanez. I swear to god I'll sell my f******g car.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

ThePIGI King said:


> Hopefully all of this fanned fret stuff Ibby is doing will sell well to force their competitors into doing it. Plus, if others started fanning guitars, we could see a lowering in price and eventually have a good market on them. If Ibby starts headless too, I may have to reconsider my relationship with them



If the iron label models sell well enough then we will see a Prestige in 2017, a very expensive one but still a mass production Japanese quality model. From there the market will start to grow with competitors looking to get in on the sales.


----------



## A-Branger

ESP already has a fanned bass prototype


like you say, it all depends on the current sales and demands fo the models we have now. We just need to wait till next namm


----------



## lewis

redstone said:


> I don't think so.



That i photoshopped it or that its better....? Haha

But really?. I think it being headless works way better with that shape than the awkward ibanez headstock.


----------



## jonajon91

A-Branger said:


> ESP already has a fanned bass prototype
> 
> 
> like you say, it all depends on the current sales and demands fo the models we have now. We just need to wait till next namm



Eh? Source?


----------



## jephjacques

It looks goofy but also comfortable as hell.


----------



## A-Branger

jonajon91 said:


> Eh? Source?



I posted it the link on the ESP 2016 prototype tread

from ESP instagram

https://instagram.com/p/9wuLoowiMt/


----------



## elkinz

A-Branger said:


> I posted it the link on the ESP 2016 prototype tread
> 
> from ESP instagram
> 
> https://instagram.com/p/9wuLoowiMt/



oh ....! That's pretty rad that other companies are starting to catch on. 

I love my fan fret Ibanez bass, but would love to see how other companies do in making some!


----------



## Konfyouzd

Fanned frets for everyone!!!!


----------



## elkinz

I guess you could say... it has a rapidly growing *fan* base.....


----------



## Konfyouzd




----------



## asher

elkinz said:


> I guess you could say... it has a rapidly growing *fan* base.....


----------



## Alex Kenivel

elkinz said:


> I guess you could say... it has a rapidly growing *fan bass*....



FTFY


----------



## A-Branger

Konfyouzd said:


> Fanned frets for everyone!!!!


----------



## elkinz

Alex Kenivel said:


> FTFY



very appropriate  how did I overlook such a *bass*-ic detail?

I have the grey stained version of that bass!


----------



## SubConArtist

tis a signiture they broke the mold......


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I don't think Ibanez has any headless hardware yet, which is why he went with a headstocked version. If Ibanez starts producing their own headless hardware, I'd imagine we'd get one.



Ibanez has done some headless guitars in the past. Like the Axstar of 86.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Ibanez has done some headless guitars in the past. Like the Axstar of 86.



They have, but that's a 6-string design, and they haven't made that guitar in almost 3 decades.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> They have, but that's a 6-string design, and they haven't made that guitar in almost 3 decades.



Still proves that Ibanez can and have made headless instruments. 2 strings missing, big deal.  

Whether they're willing to do so now for Tosin and other artists on the other hand, is a different story. 

In Tosin's prototype, I don't see the appeal of it being headless personally. Then again, I do like the look of it as is (I'd prefer it to be a double cut actually).


----------



## SubConArtist

Only fanned fret guitars are expensive anymore. Ibanez J Customs are only $199.95. I was born in 1995 and i'll stick to that lottery number so i can buy a Ibanez J Custom with fanned frets (Fanning the other direction).


----------



## downburst82

SubConArtist said:


> Only fanned fret guitars are expensive anymore. Ibanez J Customs are only $199.95. I was born in 1995 and i'll stick to that lottery number so i can buy a Ibanez J Custom with fanned frets (Fanning the other direction).



I have no clue what your talking about...


----------



## LordHar

Talking about fanned frets:


----------



## Haun

That bridge burned a hole in my retinas. What an eye turd.


----------



## chassless

it's such an extreme fan though isn't it ? or is the parallel fret too low down on the fretboard?


----------



## SubConArtist

downburst82 said:


> I have no clue what your talking about...



I'm not talking about anything.


----------



## downburst82

SubConArtist said:


> I'm not talking about anything.



Ahh that explains it!


----------



## redstone

lewis said:


> But really?. I think it being headless works way better with that shape than the awkward ibanez headstock.



The upper body is too bulky imo it needs a headstock to balance the proportions. Removing the headstock only makes the body/neck size ratio even more awkward.


----------



## jephjacques

My theory is that the prototype has a headstock because Ibanez is still working on in-house headless hardware, and the final version will indeed be headless.


----------



## jwade

That sounds quite plausible.


----------



## Duosphere

Looks like somebody forgot his guitar in the sun.................it melted


----------



## pullingstraws

I actually kind of like the design. The headstock looks a little out of place, but other than that it looks pretty cool to me.


----------



## axxessdenied

The problem with this guitar is that its probably one of the ugliest things ever made.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

jephjacques said:


> My theory is that the prototype has a headstock because Ibanez is still working on in-house headless hardware, and the final version will indeed be headless.



I had the same theory earlier in the thread, actually. 



axxessdenied said:


> The problem with this guitar is that its probably one of the ugliest things ever made.



Well...


----------



## axxessdenied

i'd play both of those before that tosin sig


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

That bass looks like it has a ballsy tone.


----------



## Alex Kenivel

Duosphere said:


> Well....Well



now THATS what i call a P bass

coming to banned practice?


----------



## chassless

It's definitely got some hair in the top end.


----------



## A-Branger

you really need to have some balls to play that


----------



## Duosphere

chassless said:


> It's definitely got some hair in the top end.





A-Branger said:


> you really need to have some balls to play that



Yep and it has a "juicy" tone


----------



## chassless

Tone has some girth to it. Although after a couple of hours of play it's prone for a neck dive.


----------



## redstone

chassless said:


> Tone has some girth to it. Although after a couple of hours of play it's prone for a neck dive.



Don't tune it in drop D and you'll be fine.


----------



## redstone

It's the only bass with three nuts though.


----------



## Haun

I liked this thread better when people were just bashing the look of Tosins new sig.


----------



## LordHar

It's pretty thin:


----------



## canuck brian

It looks like 1 3/4 inches - pretty normal. All the bevels on it probably make the edges a little thicker than a normal S series.


----------



## Tr3vor

Oh the puns.... so many puns.... 10/10


----------



## lewis

i genuinely love it tbh, its grown on me even more. Yes it should be headless and yes it would be amazing headless, but I would happily slays this thing.

I would much prefer a strandberg though If I had the luxury to choose. Sadly my budget/savings is going on a Kemper before anything


----------



## redstone

TheBlitheringOne said:


> an eventual production model that will be the coming end of the misconception of so many that 8 strings are only for Metal or Jazz brainiacs.



Do you actually expect pop-rock, country or blues musicians to drool in front of that guitar ?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Did... did Ibanez's marketing team sign up for this site? Are we turning into Reddit? 

I'm sorry dude, but that post just reads like something you'd read on a Musician's Friend description.


----------



## jwade

The vast disconnect on forums like this is incredible. Multiscale instruments, especially an 8 string with an extremely non-standard body shape, are not going to be a big mainstream production thing, and they are not going to appeal to the large majority of guitarists out there in the world. Regardless of how badly people on this forum want there to be super affordable fanned fret 8 strings available, it's still very much a niche instrument.


----------



## GraemeH

I'm all for multi-scale 8s and big companies doing them for production models.
I'm fine with different body shapes if they're aesthetically pleasing and functional.

That thing looks like the CNC machine crashed half way through its job and spewed random coordinates to the router motor.


----------



## domsch1988

jwade said:


> The vast disconnect on forums like this is incredible. Multiscale instruments, especially an 8 string with an extremely non-standard body shape, are not going to be a big mainstream production thing, and they are not going to appeal to the large majority of guitarists out there in the world. Regardless of how badly people on this forum want there to be super affordable fanned fret 8 strings available, it's still very much a niche instrument.



As much as i agree with you, i think it may also be the other way round. Think about Samsung for a moment. When they released they're first Galaxy Note everyone was all over the place how ridiculous a above 5 inch phone is and that thats never going to be mainstream. After Samsung pushing this thing out, and giving it some time, 5.5 inch is pretty much a flagship standard nowadays.

May seem like a strange comparison, but i think, if a company with a background like ibanez pushes fanned 7s and 8s the way they startet, we may see fanned guitars getting more love even by musicians who weren't aware of the concept until now.
The Lack in accessible Instruments is , in my opinion, the main reason that it's a niche product. Once you try a fanned guitar i think most guitarists would prefer it, or at least see it equal to their "normal" guitars.

I'm all for diversity and "cheap" fanned guitars is something i'm really waiting for, as i simply can't afford a custom build guitar. I really hope that fanned guitars are going to be the phablets of Guitars


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I missed the vids with the pics of the new TAM prototype everyone is talking about, different color? anyone got a screen shot? the vids have been taken down


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

domsch1988 said:


> As much as i agree with you, i think it may also be the other way round. Think about Samsung for a moment. When they released they're first Galaxy Note everyone was all over the place how ridiculous a above 5 inch phone is and that thats never going to be mainstream. After Samsung pushing this thing out, and giving it some time, 5.5 inch is pretty much a flagship standard nowadays.



This doesn't feel like a fitting analogy. The thing is that people are more open to switching phones than switching guitars.

People will go through new phone technology really quick, even if people hate it at first. On the other hand, the best selling and most popular guitar gear uses technology and designs that date bate to the '50s, and earlier. 

I can see more people being interested in fanned frets, ergo guitars, and 8-strings. But becoming the norm? Nah. People thought that headless guitars would be the norm in the '80s, and look what happened to Steinberger.


----------



## jwade

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking the idea, I'm all for there being multiscale options. I mean look at Dingwall. There are not a lot of basses I'd even consider buying after spending some time with a Dingwall. That being said, most guitarists want either a Strat or a Les Paul shape, essentially. I'd be so stoked if there was a decent quality $500-750 multiscale 7/8 string available, but I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## A-Branger

jwade said:


> The vast disconnect on forums like this is incredible. Multiscale instruments, especially an 8 string with an extremely non-standard body shape, are not going to be a big mainstream production thing, and they are not going to appeal to the large majority of guitarists out there in the world. Regardless of how badly people on this forum want there to be super affordable fanned fret 8 strings available, it's still very much a niche instrument.



yes they are. Even his previous signature is still a very niche instrument. Maybe his appeals to a bit wider audience? due to the classy looks. but due to the nature of the beast (and the player), is still a very niche instrument. Specially if you account the price tag. So I would say the mayority of the buyers are ppl like us in here.

So having him a "radical" design doesnt mean much for the market, as his niche audience cant really get much niche lol. See here lots of ppl are already drooling to the prototype. Just picture how they will when final production comes with nice woods/colors.

still, with that price tag (from his previous), hes gonna sell to the same 4 ppl on the forum than before


----------



## jephjacques

I dunno, I'd guess this one will be more in the $3000-$3500 range since it doesn't have the fancy top and gold hardware and ..... Which is still Fvcking Expensive, but not insane.


----------



## leftyguitarjoe

Think about it.

Isnt it cool that he did something other than a super strat? My brain cant decide if I think the guitar looks cool or not, but its different and thats cool. Everyone and their brother has a super strat variation as their signature.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

"Oh great, another black super strat with EMGS" 
Vs. 
"Oh. That non super strat guitar with passives is hideous and isn't for everyone and will never sale and I hate it"


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

JaxoBuzzo said:


> "Oh great, another black super strat with EMGS"
> Vs.
> "Oh. That non super strat guitar with passives is hideous and isn't for everyone and will never sale and I hate it"



Or we can have neither, and have more of stuff like this:



















Non-black Superstrats and/or passives.


----------



## redstone

Or we could have more explorers






and sexy headstocks



via Imgflip Meme Maker


----------



## asher

I was really hoping that was going to be spelled "mourning"


----------



## redstone

I'll give you that 

fixed


----------



## SeditiousDissent

Fvcking Anubis, always trying to get in on the action.


----------



## asher

I didn't realize you made that, haha. score!


----------



## redstone

^all credit goes to you!


----------



## Nour Ayasso

Haun said:


> I liked this thread better when people were just bashing the look of Tosins new sig.


Idk what you mean, all the memes and puns are pleasingly on point.


----------



## lewis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Or we can have neither, and have more of stuff like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Non-black Superstrats and/or passives.



100% what this guy said /\ about time we got more exotic and less boring finishes but relatively around the same price point.

They do this thing where they take basically a regular RG8, make it like a nice burl veneer looking finish and charge like £200 more for it or something. Annoys me.


----------



## CaptainD00M

redstone said:


>



Back the truck up!

Who stole Karl Sander's 8 String Prototype?!


----------



## cip 123

WHY! Does it have to have that stupid cutaway on the bottom? If it was just rounded like a BTB I would love this, but that bottom Cutaway behind the bridge ruins the Entire guitar.


----------



## Zalbu

I think it's interesting that he went back to HH and only a volume knob when his TAM has HSH and a coil tap. He's still putting out a wicked range of tones on his Instagram videos though, I wonder if he just decided that it was overkill or that he can't do it because of the design. I don't think I've ever seen a multiscale guitar with a single coil in it now when I think about it...


----------



## Slunk Dragon

I'd bet he just wanted to try out the Seymour Duncans to see how they'd sound. It seems like he does make fair use of a lot of the sounds in the Ionizers, and I don't think Tosin is the kind of guy to just up and walk away from a set up pickups he helped heavily design.

The man's exploring, so I say let him!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Slunk Dragon said:


> I'd bet he just wanted to try out the Seymour Duncans to see how they'd sound. It seems like he does make fair use of a lot of the sounds in the Ionizers, and I don't think Tosin is the kind of guy to just up and walk away from a set up pickups he helped heavily design.
> 
> The man's exploring, so I say let him!



He posted pictures with all of his guitars equipped with them. I think it's safe to say it's a bit more than experimentation.


----------



## GunnarJames

Zalbu said:


> I think it's interesting that he went back to HH and only a volume knob when his TAM has HSH and a coil tap. He's still putting out a wicked range of tones on his Instagram videos though, I wonder if he just decided that it was overkill or that he can't do it because of the design. I don't think I've ever seen a multiscale guitar with a single coil in it now when I think about it...



I'm thinking he's still using a 5-way. Probably setup like most HH Ibbys with a 5-way right now (neck, neck parallel, neck and bridge, neck and bridge split inner coils, bridge), but this is also just the prototype.


----------



## chassless

And that single volume can be push/pull.


----------



## Leviathus

Horrendous!


----------



## chassless

^ a bit late to the party aren't you?


----------



## lewis

chassless said:


> ^ a bit late to the party aren't you?


----------



## GunnarJames

$20 to the first person to buy one and chop the headstock off.

:edit: Actually, if this ends up with a 26.5-28" scale, passive routes, and any other color but black, I just might give myself that $20.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

^those specs aren't really worth how much it's going to cost...


----------



## GunnarJames

Why not? People spend thousands on guitars with those exact specs currently. 

Specs like those are preference, not what makes a guitar cost what it does. The guitar having those specs won't change the cost of it, only my interest in it.



Nour Ayasso said:


> ^those specs aren't really worth how much it's going to cost *to me*...



Fixed that for you. 

Let's be real though, it'll probably end up with a 27" scale on the low end anyway.


----------



## Insomnia

The more I look at it, the more I like it!


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

Insomnia said:


> The more I look at it, the more I like it!



"I do think Its good. It remains...consistent. I wish you were here to see it!" 




Anybody? Yeah?


----------



## Nour Ayasso

GunnarJames said:


> Why not? People spend thousands on guitars with those exact specs currently.
> Specs like those are preference, not what makes a guitar cost what it does. The guitar having those specs won't change the cost of it, only my interest in it.
> Fixed that for you.
> Let's be real though, it'll probably end up with a 27" scale on the low end anyway.


Lol xD Yeah they do, I'm not trying to put a price on any guitar, I just meant it as you could get a 28-26.5 fan fret passive route for less (iron label, Agile, carvin, possibly a custom) compared to a signature model. If you totally love the new TAM then of course get it! But if you're like me and heavily hunt for specs then I wouldn't spend all that cash knowing that I could get the same for less, and most likely better looks xD
_Then again_ if you or someone else did chop off that head and basically turned an ibanez Abasi sig into a self modded strandberg, that could sorta be cool.
Speaking of strandberg, I saw your thread (awesome btw) I'm sure you could get more than 27" man


Insomnia said:


> The more I look at it, the more I like it!


Yeah I sorta thought the same...his sweat and outdoor pictures are bringing out that matte finish and natural wood. I think if all the black paint was matte and if the top curve wasn't so big I would see it as something more attractive.


----------



## ixlramp

"I like it!"


cip 123 said:


> WHY! Does it have to have that stupid cutaway on the bottom? If it was just rounded like a BTB I would love this, but that bottom Cutaway behind the bridge ruins the Entire guitar.


 It's obvious why.

This guitar is very welcome. Although playing while sitting is untrendy with the kids it really does happen. At least this is not essentially a 50+ year old Fender or Gibson design. Now we need some affordable ergo guitars. In 20 years i have yet to try a (non-bass) guitar that was either comfortable or ergonomic while sitting.


----------



## GunnarJames

Nour Ayasso said:


> Lol xD Yeah they do, I'm not trying to put a price on any guitar, I just meant it as you could get a 28-26.5 fan fret passive route for less (iron label, Agile, carvin, possibly a custom) compared to a signature model. If you totally love the new TAM then of course get it! But if you're like me and heavily hunt for specs then I wouldn't spend all that cash knowing that I could get the same for less, and most likely better looks xD
> _Then again_ if you or someone else did chop off that head and basically turned an ibanez Abasi sig into a self modded strandberg, that could sorta be cool.
> Speaking of strandberg, I saw your thread (awesome btw) I'm sure you could get more than 27" man
> 
> Yeah I sorta thought the same...his sweat and outdoor pictures are bringing out that matte finish and natural wood. I think if all the black paint was matte and if the top curve wasn't so big I would see it as something more attractive.



For sure! Those specs are definitely around, I was just saying that the price will be reflective of the quality (which will be much higher than the Iron Label, Agile, etc. stuff unless they offer it in both a Japanese and Indo model). 

Thanks man! The Strandberg is fantastic and perfect for me. It would be cool to have a second 8 string, but after getting the Strandberg I am way more picky. Plus, I have some T4M headless hardware for an 8 string build I never got around to doing, so this would be cool to convert since I think it'd look cooler headless. BUT, I'd also feel AWFUL chopping the headstock off of a guitar that's potentially in the $2,500-3,500 range.


----------



## redstone

ixlramp said:


> "I like it!"
> 
> It's obvious why.
> 
> This guitar is very welcome. Although *playing while sitting is untrendy with the kids* it really does happen.



Are we living in different universes ? Check the "post your YT videos" thread, you ERG guys are all sitters, mostly classical.


----------



## chassless

i'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

GunnarJames said:


> For sure! Those specs are definitely around, I was just saying that the price will be reflective of the quality (which will be much higher than the Iron Label, Agile, etc. stuff unless they offer it in both a Japanese and Indo model).
> Thanks man! The Strandberg is fantastic and perfect for me. It would be cool to have a second 8 string, but after getting the Strandberg I am way more picky. Plus, I have some T4M headless hardware for an 8 string build I never got around to doing, so this would be cool to convert since I think it'd look cooler headless. BUT, I'd also feel AWFUL chopping the headstock off of a guitar that's potentially in the $2,500-3,500 range.


True that on the quality, it's an aggravating hunt for specs when companies like agile offer loads of options yet fan frets have barely hit the mainstream market. I'm not surprised you're picky after getting something like a strandberg xD I geuss I said what I said because I look for specs first before quality, since quality can be justified and possible improved. 
Since you have hardware (and are a luthier I assume?) chopping off the head and making a signature guitar into a somewhat, one of a kind guitar would be pretty badass. (I also think it'll be way closer to 4 grand maybe more since his rg8 model was 4 grand, I assume something as exotic as this would cost more)
BTW didn't someone say early in the thread, that the fan is 27.5 - 25.5? Or something similar to that? 



redstone said:


> Are we living in different universes ? Check the "post your YT videos" thread, you ERG guys are all sitters, mostly classical.



There's a good number of people who play ERG in live performance, I think his point was that no one really considers how well a guitar will feel when sitting down when they choose a guitar. Since all guitars are doable, and ergonomic guitars are rare.


----------



## redstone

Nour Ayasso said:


> There's a good number of people who play ERG in live performance, I think his point was that no one really considers how well a guitar will feel when sitting down when they choose a guitar. Since all guitars are doable, and ergonomic guitars are rare.



The shop owners are surprised when I ask to borrow a strap before testing their stuff. Most test guitars only in sitting position. 

And while we're at it... the leg location on that new sig is way too close to the neck. The access to the last frets in sitting position will suffer. That shape is _original _but not practical.


----------



## jephjacques

It must work pretty well for Tosin


----------



## redstone

Probably, if he doesn't make a full use of the last frets.


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah if there's one thing Tosin Abasi is known for it's avoiding the high frets


----------



## redstone

It doesn't change the fact that the position of the leg will impact negatively the full access to the last frets. And when I say full, I say the upper part of the frets.


----------



## AxeHappy

I went and watched the video on the first page. Tosin doesn't seem to have upper fret access negatively effected at all.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

It's not too close if you play seated with the guitar in the classical position - which is ultimately going to be more accurate to playing while standing, and leads to better posture and better playing form. That's part of the motivation behind a lot of ergonomic guitars - to encourage a more comfortable playing experience, which does include NOT having it sit on your right leg.


----------



## redstone

The advantage with playing while standing is that we're not locked into one playing position, so that you can bring any fret close to the neutral posture if needed. In sitting position we always have to make sacrifices. Since that guitar neck sits closer to the leg, if you can't lift the leg enough to compensate, you'll have to curve your back or to tilt the neck up more than usual, which can disturb some picking techniques (maybe not yours, but still).. If you watch Tosin's demos, his left leg is high and/or he curves his back a lot when playing that guitar.

If I wanted to play a weird 8s in sitting position with ergonomics in mind, I'd rather ask Kramer a custom Turbulence


----------



## RUSH_Of_Excitement

redstone said:


> The advantage with playing while standing is that we're not locked into one playing position, so that you can bring any fret close to the neutral posture if needed. In sitting position we always have to make sacrifices. Since that guitar neck sits closer to the leg, if you can't lift the leg enough to compensate, you'll have to curve your back or to tilt the neck up more than usual, which can disturb some picking techniques (maybe not yours, but still).. If you watch Tosin's demos, his left leg is high and/or he curves his back a lot when playing that guitar.
> 
> If I wanted to play a weird 8s in sitting position with ergonomics in mind, I'd rather ask Kramer a custom Turbulence



Omg, I just looked up what a Turbulence is, and yelled "what the ...!!" Fairly loudly on the bus, and then proceeded to like it and wish I had one.


----------



## Mangle

Not that it matters (because I'm a lefty and Ibanez has zero respect for lefties) but, this thing is seriously growing on me. There's obviously been a good amount of thought and work put into the idea(s) behind it and.... I don't know, this guitar has just got some really good things going for itself.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

Any other word on the specifics of this? Realease date? Possible namm? Price?


----------



## Nour Ayasso

Mangle said:


> (because I'm a lefty and Ibanez has zero respect for lefties)


Zero Respect? Ibanez has made quite a few left handed models from standard all the way to Prestige. As rare/or uncommon as they are, at least they make left handed popular models for a short amount of time before they discontinue it.

Nonetheless, I agree that this guitar has a lot going for itself, in my opinion, that being uniqueness, ergonomic, and playability (from what we know).


----------



## The Hiryuu

RUSH_Of_Excitement said:


> Omg, I just looked up what a Turbulence is, and yelled "what the ...!!" Fairly loudly on the bus, and then proceeded to like it and wish I had one.



Turbulences are ....ing awesome. If it makes you feel any better, I probably wish I had another one as much as you wish you had one.


----------



## odibrom

A few days ago, I was browsing Ibanez old catalogs and found some unique designs that could easily be brought up to make this one, headless included... yes Ibanez did headless in the 80s... a bass at least...


----------



## Miek

They did a guitar as well. I forget the name of it, but I believe it also had midi access.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

^ Ironically, I read that and thought "wow someone should post a picture of one on here"
aaaaaand boom, one google search and I'm an idiot 


Bloody_Inferno said:


> Ibanez has done some headless guitars in the past. Like the Axstar of 86.



I was thinking that this would take away from the "Ibanez strandberg" thought, buut nah...
However, I really think we can discard the thought of them not having headless hardware.


----------



## odibrom

Nour Ayasso said:


> However, I really think we can discard the thought of them not having headless hardware.



This... still, that guitar is a PROTOTYPE. I guess they (Tosin and Ibanez) are feeling how well or how bad it is grabbing attention design and feature wise.

We'll have to wait to see what comes out IF anything comes out...


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

So, judging by the recent 2016 line up release from Ibanez, this isn't happening. What a cock tease. I'm hurt.


----------



## kevdes93

Everything that we've seen so far has been the uk lineup, more is definitely coming for namm


----------



## Haun

Plus, it's very possible that it might take several years to get at signature right and ready for the consumer market.


----------



## isispelican

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...1125181474013.440899.621899012&type=3&theater


----------



## jephjacques

lol @ that neck pocket gap


----------



## Khoi

I....... I like it...... minus the neck pocket gap


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

So? Does this mean that this model is in fact getting released


----------



## ThePIGI King

Super duper hawt! 11/10 would play/own if I could afford.


----------



## jeremyb

SEXY AS!!! Now lets hope they do a 6 string version for those of us who want ergo 6 strings


----------



## celticelk

Ugh. No. The lower horn is unsuited to the rest of the shape, and that color scheme....


----------



## chassless

not gonna say it isn't interesting, but i kind of prefer it in black. i'm not a fan of the gold honestly. i can't really tell what's wrong with it.


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

I'd play it.

...idk if I'd drop a couple grand on one brand new, but I'd snap it up for maybe $1.5k used


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

celticelk said:


> that color scheme....



It's actually the only thing I dig about the guitar. ...., now I actually want a guitar that has that scheme.


----------



## Jzbass25

I think it is ugly but I know how good it would play for a classical style sitter like myself, it would be soooo comfortable!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

This is the only thing I'm really excited about from Ibanez this year, and in recent memory to be honest.


----------



## MikeH

Ew.


----------



## jephjacques

MaxOfMetal said:


> This is the only thing I'm really excited about from Ibanez this year, and in recent memory to be honest.



I like the shape but that gap and my experience with the TAM100s (bought three different ones, all had game-breaking build issues and were returned) has me pessimistic about their build quality.


----------



## Hollowway

celticelk said:


> Ugh. No. The lower horn is unsuited to the rest of the shape, and that color scheme....



Yeah, and the HS doesn't really match, IMO. Assuming, of course, that it's the same one as on his black version.

And you must be particularly bummed, because single cuts are right up your alley.


----------



## celticelk

Hollowway said:


> And you must be particularly bummed, because single cuts are right up your alley.



They are. 8-strings, not so much, at least these days.


----------



## Taikatatti

Golden bridge looks little wierd, other than that it looks cool


----------



## Miek

I like the nightswan inlays but I'm not a big fan of the matching pickups


----------



## jwade

Dug the black version more.


----------



## Slunk Dragon

I kind of like it, yet at this point, the only problem I still find with it is that I think it would be far better suited as a headless instrument.

Otherwise, it actually looks really damn sweet with that mid-grey finish and gold hardware. Though I really hope it'll have the Ionizers in it, those pickups have been my bread and butter since I bought my TAM10.


----------



## Hollowway

Slunk Dragon said:


> that mid-grey finish and gold hardware.



Oh wow, on my screen it's looking light blue. Or at least grey blue. 

Either way, this may be one of those things where with the right color/wood and hardware (i.e. not slanted soapbars) the thing may look good. 

What I've learned is that Tosin has a particular style of guitar he likes, and it doesn't really jell with mine. The original TAM wasn't my cup of tea with the various colors, and this one (the gray) isn't either. But who knows, throw a matte burnt orange color and a cool FB wood and I might be into it.


----------



## jwade

It would probably look better with his old sig pickups. The open coil look would probably class this up a fair amount, and break up the overall 'we accidentally did the pickups and body with the same primer color' vibe it currently has.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

I still don't like this thing. Looks like it'll balance well at least.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Señor Voorhees;4512448 said:


> I still don't like this thing. Looks like it'll balance well at least.



And if most of your playing is done seated, it matters minimally at best. But maybe more of you play shows than I do.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

jephjacques said:


> lol @ that neck pocket gap



Seriously. If you had that you'd have to hire Gandalf to keep the Balrog from crossing it.


----------



## chassless

concerning the neck gap: this looks like a half cooked prototype. even the bridge saddles are a bit misaligned if you look closely. i can't know if that was unintentional.


----------



## Vairish

I'd love it as a flat top:


----------



## jephjacques

That DOES clean up the shape a lot!


----------



## shredfreak

I'd go for the claas regarding 8 string instead of that thing. 
In price they should be quite similar minus the too big neck pocket.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I'm sure thats another LACS model but we should find out at NAMM if its going to be production.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Slunk Dragon said:


> Though I really hope it'll have the Ionizers in it, those pickups have been my bread and butter since I bought my TAM10.


Tosin is with Duncan now. So the Ionizers are gone.


----------



## chassless

'shop that again with the bridge saddles aligned please!!


----------



## oremus91

Not a huge fan of the shape but can we wait to judge bridge saddles and neck pockets until it is actually on the production line guys?


----------



## jephjacques

I know Skervesen fans out their bridge saddles on purpose, this may be the same.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The saddle alignment is deliberate. Take a look at 6 string Ibanez bass models with similar bridges. 

Take a look at the bridge on your guitars, is the intonation a perfect diagonal line?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

chassless said:


> 'shop that again with the bridge saddles aligned please!!



Its a multiscale. Why would you have the saddles aligned?


----------



## shredfreak

chassless said:


> 'shop that again with the bridge saddles aligned please!!








Close enough imo.


----------



## pahulkster

jephjacques said:


> I like the shape but that gap and my experience with the TAM100s (bought three different ones, all had game-breaking build issues and were returned) has me pessimistic about their build quality.



That is crazy with a guitar like that. 

This one just isn't my thing at all, but it will be cool to see Tosin play one.


----------



## trem licking

are ya'll sure this isn't a Billy Gibbons custom shop?


----------



## Zalbu

https://www.instagram.com/p/BAqtji2C6rO/?taken-by=tosinabasi

I like it a hell of a lot more than the black one, especially the fretboard and the inlays, but it does look a bit wonky when the pickup covers are the same color as the rest of the body.


----------



## chassless

because the 4th and 5th strings just look off. look at them !!


----------



## chassless

Zalbu said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BAqtji2C6rO/?taken-by=tosinabasi
> 
> I like it a hell of a lot more than the black one, especially the fretboard and the inlays, but it does look a bit wonky when the pickup covers are the same color as the rest of the body.



yeah, in video it makes more 'sense'. just like the first prototype also made more 'sense' in moving pictures. i also just noticed it's kinda sad there's only one knob and no fancy switches on a Tosin guitar.



Lorcan Ward said:


> Its a multiscale. Why would you have the saddles aligned?



because the 4th and 5th strings just look off. look at them!!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

It's funny the things that are being griped about here. 

Stuff like the bridge arrangement which is done to better facilitate intonation across the longer, multi-scale neck for various tunings and string gauges. 

Heck, even Jackson is doing it on standard fretted 7-strings:





It's a superior setup when venturing outside the norm as far as fretting, tuning, etc. 

As for the matched pickups, it wasn't too long ago that folks loved it. 





I think it's good that this is so polarizing, as it shows Ibanez is onto something. Every guitar they've made that has elicited this kind of reaction has either been a hit or lead to one.


----------



## chassless

^ they don't look off on the Jackson. the mounts make sense on it. not on the Ibby  i'm sure the mounts can be aligned while the saddles can still be adjustable? since we were Photoshopping it, i thought we could make it prettier.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

chassless said:


> ^ they don't look off on the Jackson. the mounts make sense on it. not on the Ibby  i'm sure the mounts can be aligned while the saddles can still be adjustable? since we were Photoshopping it, i thought we could make it prettier.



The mounting is identical on the two guitars relative to scale. If you made the Ibanez a parallel fretted guitar the spacing would be the same as the Jackson. 

Bridges like these typically don't have a huge travel range, so they should be mounted offset on instruments like this. 

If you don't like the aesthetics, that's fine, but understand by changing them you increase the potential for poor intonation across the range. 

Form < Function


----------



## vampiregenocide

I think the new colour looks really gorgeous and tasteful, though I think I'd prefer it in a natural finish. Either way, I really hope they make this available, though that neck pocket does look a little off, it is only a prototype.


----------



## jephjacques

MaxOfMetal said:


> The mounting is identical on the two guitars relative to scale. If you made the Ibanez a parallel fretted guitar the spacing would be the same as the Jackson.
> 
> Bridges like these typically don't have a huge travel range, so they should be mounted offset on instruments like this.
> 
> If you don't like the aesthetics, that's fine, but understand by changing them you increase the potential for poor intonation across the range.
> 
> Form < Function



Yeah the bridge is fine. I'm curious to hear Tosin's explanation of the singlecut design, whether it was an aesthetics or ergonomics thing. With the neck being bolted on pretty much where it is on a normal Ibanez I wouldn't think it affects the tone much.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> Yeah the bridge is fine. I'm curious to hear Tosin's explanation of the singlecut design, whether it was an aesthetics or ergonomics thing. With the neck being bolted on pretty much where it is on a normal Ibanez I wouldn't think it affects the tone much.



It's like a combination of his old TIL 8 and his Strandberg/Toone stuff. 
















If you mash those all together and throw in his Ibanez stuff, that's pretty much what you get.

I also wouldn't say that all that mass in the upper bout isn't going to have an effect, even if not bolted to the neck.


----------



## JSanta

And let's be realistic about the design of the upper bout as well. Fodera has been doing bolt-on single cut basses for quite a long time now.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

^Speaking of that, this was just posted.


----------



## chassless

MaxOfMetal said:


> If you don't like the aesthetics, that's fine, but understand by changing them you increase the potential for poor intonation across the range.
> 
> Form < Function



not gonna deny that.

that Jackson looks killer too.


----------



## frahmans

the output jack is on the back?


----------



## canuck brian

frahmans said:


> the output jack is on the back?



Yeppers - that deep dish!


----------



## lewis

i cant work out if the jack on the back is an awesome location or....pointless and abit stupid?. Wont that dig into your tummy if standing and playing live?.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Since it's kinda dug out the way it is I imagine it'd feel more flush than you're imagining.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

If Dean manages to sell guitars that look live shovels, I don't doubt Ibanez will sell tons of Tosin's thingamajigs.


----------



## Ze_F

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ^Speaking of that, this was just posted.
> PIC



Hmmm, me like. Is that the back from the blue seafoam/neck heel gap thingie posted earlier ? or will we get the transparent grey quilted top from the TAM 100 ? Hurry up Namm please, and don't disappoint. That would be some unfair teasing if this doesn't show up in LA.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> i cant work out if the jack on the back is an awesome location or....pointless and abit stupid?. Wont that dig into your tummy if standing and playing live?.



It's nothing new really, putting the jack around back in a recessed/angled spot. 

I've played a few guitars like that and as long as it's in the right spot you don't really notice it anymore than any other jack location. 



OmegaSlayer said:


> If Dean manages to sell guitars that look live shovels, I don't doubt Ibanez will sell tons of Tosin's thingamajigs.



There's a reason this is a signature model, they're banking on at least having the uber-fans buy them.


----------



## TechDeathWannabe

I'm not a fan of AAL, (Tosin and Javier individually, I am impressed and inspired by. I just don't like AAL much ) but I still want one.
Especially if the pickups end up being a white Pegasus/Sentient combo. Those covers aren't bad, but the open white bobbins look more classy, IMO.

Useless post to say:
There's at least one non-fan that wants one, so hopefully there are enough fans -who can afford them, and will buy them- for Ibanez to make a profit, and release them, and successors as well, provided sales are good enough.


----------



## TGOD

I will literally throw money at Ibanez for that white one.


----------



## Daf57

Sorry if already been posted - didn't see it anywhere yet.


----------



## TGOD

Yep, count me in for the white one. Would have liked it better if the pups were passive sized instead of soapbars, but it's not that big of a deal.


----------



## lewis

TGOD said:


> I will literally throw money at Ibanez for that *white *one.



hold the phone...what? White?


----------



## j3ps3

chassless said:


> because the 4th and 5th strings just look off. look at them !!



It's not about aesthetic. The length from the nut to 12. fret and from the 12. fret to bridge has to be the same.


----------



## PunchLine

At the end of the end it's Tosin's signature model, his specs, his design and his taste. He must be quite influencial and facilitate sales of many guitars and/or he knows how to ask nicely as this is the most unique guitar design that Ibanez has come up since the late 80's (excluding the bass models).


----------



## Hollowway

Man, this is weird, but based on the back view I really want one. I love jack locations that aren't on the bottom the guitar, because usually I bring the cable up through the strap area to keep it from getting pulled out, and when sitting down I can't hold the guitar easily in classical position. So I'm loving that jack location. And the rest of the back looks really cool as well. Being an 8 string player, if they come up with a cheaper version (like the TAM from before), I'm probably gonna end up with one.

And yeah, where Re you guys seeing the white one? Are you seeing the video of the gray one and assuming your ....ty monitor is showing you a new model?


----------



## Konfyouzd

I still kinda think it'd be sick if it somehow some way ended up headless. Seems like the body shape lends itself nicely to that.


----------



## Hollowway

Konfyouzd said:


> I still kinda think it'd be sick if it somehow some way ended up headless. Seems like the body shape lends itself nicely to that.



Totally! Given the popularity of headless stuff, and the Toone and Strandy Tosin had, it wouldn't be unusual to expect it. But it's getting kinda far along here to start lopping the head off. It just doesn't match, though. So who knows. Dude, let's start a side business where we take people's TAM Blob (that's what I'm calling this model) and we cut the HS off and put headless hardware on! We'll name our company Animals As Headless Leaders. Or maybe Headless Animals as Leaders?


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Hollowway said:


> Man, this is weird, but based on the back view I really want one. I love jack locations that aren't on the bottom the guitar, because usually I bring the cable up through the strap area to keep it from getting pulled out, and when sitting down I can't hold the guitar easily in classical position. So I'm loving that jack location. And the rest of the back looks really cool as well. Being an 8 string player, if they come up with a cheaper version (like the TAM from before), I'm probably gonna end up with one.
> 
> And yeah, where Re you guys seeing the white one? Are you seeing the video of the gray one and assuming your ....ty monitor is showing you a new model?



You should learn to play guitar with your belly then


----------



## chassless

j3ps3 said:


> It's not about aesthetic. The length from the nut to 12. fret and from the 12. fret to bridge has to be the same.


 
i just compared it with the previous black model. the spacing is consistent across the two models so it's intentional.

but again,_* i was saying please fix that on Photoshop to whomever felt like it. just for the picture.*_


----------



## Hywel

I chopped the new ones head off. I much prefer it headless.


----------



## chassless

^ I'm sorta convinced.


----------



## Hywel

Now with 100% more quilted maple!


----------



## chassless

How about flamed?


----------



## Spicypickles

Hywel said:


> Now with 100% more quilted maple!


You should totally Kiesel that bevel (maple stops here) just to ruin it for everyone.


----------



## Hywel

chassless said:


> How about flamed?



Madness I tell ya! 



Spicypickles said:


> You should totally Kiesel that bevel (maple stops here) just to ruin it for everyone.



That I can do!


----------



## Konfyouzd

Hollowway said:


> Totally! Given the popularity of headless stuff, and the Toone and Strandy Tosin had, it wouldn't be unusual to expect it. But it's getting kinda far along here to start lopping the head off. It just doesn't match, though. So who knows. Dude, let's start a side business where we take people's TAM Blob (that's what I'm calling this model) and we cut the HS off and put headless hardware on! We'll name our company Animals As Headless Leaders. Or maybe Headless Animals as Leaders?


----------



## Konfyouzd

That quilted one is super sexy!


----------



## Alex Kenivel

Let's not forget those pickup covers!


----------



## Hywel

Edit - NVM. I got carried away with photoshop. 

I think the shape works well as a headless. I wonder if it's Tosins preference that it has a headstock or Ibanez saying they aren't willing to do it without one? If it's going to have a headstock then they should give it something new and fitting for that guitar. Their usual shape works well with pointy RGs and ok with Sabers but this body shape is so rounded that it clashes. An 8 string version of the SZ headstock or something completely new might work much better aesthetically.

Actually, even with a headstock it's kinda growing on me...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

This isn't the meme thread, let's keep things on topic.


----------



## Hollowway

Hywel said:


> Now with 100% more quilted maple!



I'd buy the beejezus out of that!

p.s. you guys are professional photoshoppers. That's totally convincing!


----------



## asher

The back shot got an audible "whoa!" out of me.


----------



## Tr3vor

Does that thing have a push pull coil split or something? If it doesn't, I wonder how he's going to make his thumping thing work.


----------



## Spicypickles

I still feel like the switch placement was an afterthought. That control cavity is massive, also, unless that is their way of chambering.


----------



## A-Branger

photoshop some pearl block inlays


----------



## jephjacques

Spicypickles said:


> I still feel like the switch placement was an afterthought. That control cavity is massive, also, unless that is their way of chambering.



It's not that different from where the controls are on his Toone, or even a Petrucci. And I think the control cavity looks bigger than it is because the treble side of the body is so compact.


----------



## jephjacques

Hollowway said:


> Man, this is weird, but based on the back view I really want one.



Yeah I wasn't sold on the ergonomics until I saw the back. Now I really want to try one out.


----------



## TGOD

Man, the white just looks so much better. I hope that's the overall look he goes for. I'd snap one up in a second. Guess my tastes are just weirder than normal.


----------



## Five Ten

I am not a die hard headless fan, nor am I a fan of the original design, but that headless mock up looks pretty cool. I never would have thought cutting the head off would make such a large difference.


----------



## Bdtunn

I agree that looks way better with no head!


----------



## A-Branger

I like it with the ibanez headstock. Way more than headless

still think it needs block inlays, or no inlays


----------



## MoshJosh

Hywel said:


> I chopped the new ones head off. I much prefer it headless.



Maybe someone should just send this to Tosin, its so awesome he'll have no choice but to change the design!

Definitely dig it headless!


----------



## Hollowway

I don't mind it having a HS, but not that standard one. At least make it something that fits the body more. And I'm generally not an dot/block/etc inlay guy, but if it were my sig I'd do a single inlay that had nothing to do with fret markers. Like how bulb has the Periphery P logo. I'm just not feeling he dots on this one. Not the dislike is minor, and it wouldn't stop me from purchasing it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> I don't mind it having a HS, but not that standard one. At least make it something that fits the body more. And I'm generally not an dot/block/etc inlay guy, but if it were my sig I'd do a single inlay that had nothing to do with fret markers. Like how bulb has the Periphery P logo. I'm just not feeling he dots on this one. Not the dislike is minor, and it wouldn't stop me from purchasing it.



They had to keep the headstock it's the only thing that identifies it as an Ibanez.


----------



## slapnutz

Interest but unsure if I dig it but at least Ibanez is trying things.

Still wish they made this as a production sig, would by in a heartbeat.


----------



## Ze_F

Nice, where did you find this ?


----------



## canuck brian

Hywel said:


> Now with 100% more quilted maple!



Might need to alter the body so you can actually tune that guitar.


----------



## Hywel

canuck brian said:


> Might need to alter the body so you can actually tune that guitar.



I'm sure with a slightly deeper bottom bevel and some longer Gibraltar headless tuners Ibanez could make it work!


----------



## Spicypickles

slapnutz said:


> Interest but unsure if I dig it but at least Ibanez is trying things.
> 
> Still wish they made this as a production sig, would by in a heartbeat.



Always loved this one. This one got stolen right?


----------



## canuck brian

Hywel said:


> I'm sure with a slightly deeper bottom bevel and some longer Gibraltar headless tuners Ibanez could make it work!



Totally! And then it would not be Tosin's signature guitar that he spec'd out either. The price would also increase considering the cost of the headless hardware.


----------



## 77zark77

This concept is so new the idea must have time to grow up on everbody's mind

Let the time do its work, it's so easy


----------



## Hollowway

slapnutz said:


> Interest but unsure if I dig it but at least Ibanez is trying things.
> 
> Still wish they made this as a production sig, would by in a heartbeat.



Agreed. I'd buy the hell out of that thing if it was a production model. And fanned, and with a singlecut body and no binding, a cool inlay and a BM HS.  Sorry, had to go all SSO there.


----------



## slapnutz

Ze_F said:


> Nice, where did you find this ?



Its a LACS that was built for Tosin.

Last I heard it was stolen, unsure if recovered.


----------



## jephjacques

Hollowway said:


> Agreed. I'd buy the hell out of that thing if it was a production model. And fanned, and with a singlecut body and no binding, a cool inlay and a BM HS.  Sorry, had to go all SSO there.



And put some bevels on it so we can all complain about them in six months!!!!!!


----------



## Zalbu

Eh, I think it looks goofy as a headless, the neck just looks super tiny when the body extends up to the 13th fret.


----------



## GunnarJames

Aesthetically, I'd buy the grey one with gold hardware as is right now. Love it. I originally thought it'd be better without a headstock (which still looks fantastic as well), but the headstock has grown on me. 

I hope this goes into production, even if it turns out to have specs that aren't my cup of tea, just for the sake of pushing the envelope and moving forward in "mainstream" guitar manufacturing.


----------



## asher

slapnutz said:


> Its a LACS that was built for Tosin.
> 
> Last I heard it was stolen, unsure if recovered.



I don't think it ever was


----------



## The Reverend

I think the headstock grew on me. Seen in the context of Tosin playing it, the headstock doesn't seem too goofy.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I never realized the semi-hollow guitar was stolen. It was my favorite guitar he got.


----------



## isispelican




----------



## metale

So... Is Tosin officially with Seymour Duncan? (the backdrop in the video above)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yup. He's been one since mid last year.


----------



## GenghisCoyne

Vairish said:


> I'd love it as a flat top:



it has a gumby vibe with a flat top.


----------



## wannabguitarist

I like it much more without the bevel on the upper bout


----------



## odibrom

isispelican said:


>




Lol, his clothes match the guitar's top color... Also, no visible GAP on the upper neck joint...


----------



## Bdtunn

Standing up its not a bad looking guitar, except that lower horn.....


----------



## Coldsnow

The first version is still my favorite&#128165; Black with bevels. Basswood and 799$. Dream come true. Welcome to the future!


----------



## chassless

... 799$? who said that ?


----------



## CaptainD00M

isispelican said:


>




Ugh wow, mind-blowing playing but really uninteresting to watch.

I know this has been stated by others before so sorry for repeating this.

Anyway, in regard to ^^ I seriously doubt this will be $799, thats fantasy land. Its gonna be USD4K or there abouts, and if you're lucky there will be a Indo-made clone for USD1.3K. But with FF they could decided to charge more, Ibz knows people will buy it.


----------



## chassless

i knew it... 800$ just can't be right


----------



## MaxOfMetal

They could get to that price if they went with the Artcore shop in China........


----------



## Miek

Hey they put out some pretty decent guitars man 

(  )


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Miek said:


> Hey they put out some pretty decent guitars man
> 
> (  )



The Chinese Artcore shop is probably the most consistent one they use. No joke.


----------



## MoshJosh

Would be seriously cool to see a "low end" cheap Tosin sig. I mean we are seeing Korean and Chinese Strandbergs, and people seem very interested in those so why not?


----------



## ROAR

$4k model and a $1200 model a few months later I bet.
I would pick up a higher end of these instead of the TAM100 for the same price.
WORTH.


----------



## Miek

MaxOfMetal said:


> The Chinese Artcore shop is probably the most consistent one they use. No joke.



Oh I agree. They make pretty solid guitars. I'm still laughin tho


----------



## larry

anyone else notice the neck-through guitar on the triple stand @ 1:27? there's a chapman ML-2 gold-top, a strat copy and then something that looks like a DC800 with wenge/bubinga neck.. except the neck joint is contoured like a Jackson or Washburn.


----------



## jephjacques

ROAR said:


> $4k model and a $1200 model a few months later I bet.
> I would pick up a higher end of these instead of the TAM100 for the same price.
> WORTH.



I'm gonna Price Is Right you and say $3799. I bet they price it lower than the TAM100 due to less hardware, simpler electronics, and no fancy top, despite the weird shape and fanned frets.


(watch it be $6000 like the ....ing M8M)


----------



## chaneisa

larry said:


> anyone else notice the neck-through guitar on the triple stand @ 1:27? there's a chapman ML-2 gold-top, a strat copy and then something that looks like a DC800 with wenge/bubinga neck.. except the neck joint is contoured like a Jackson or Washburn.



Looks like a KM-7 Mk II.


----------



## Ericjutsu

can anyone here confirm the scale length? I'm really hoping it goes up to 28 inches and not 27.


----------



## ROAR

jephjacques said:


> I'm gonna Price Is Right you and say $3799. I bet they price it lower than the TAM100 due to less hardware, simpler electronics, and no fancy top, despite the weird shape and fanned frets.
> 
> 
> (watch it be $6000 like the ....ing M8M)



$4K from me
$3800 from Jeph

Who else want to play The Price is Right?

They'll definitely hold this fiddle to a high value being that there will be little like it on the market. It would be smart of them to keep the production limited to only higher ends as that will drive it's value up even more. 
If it ends up like the M8M that's $6k I honestly wouldn't be too surprise, but I would doubt there's a market for that they would want to hit. 
The TAM100 must have done quite well for them to do the TAM10 and same for Bowen's model. So I could see them doing this at both ends, but we'll see.
URE SPECULATION I DON'T KNOW .... ABOUT ANYTHING:


----------



## StevenC

ROAR said:


> $4K from me
> $3800 from Jeph
> 
> Who else want to play The Price is Right?
> 
> They'll definitely hold this fiddle to a high value being that there will be little like it on the market. It would be smart of them to keep the production limited to only higher ends as that will drive it's value up even more.
> If it ends up like the M8M that's $6k I honestly wouldn't be too surprise, but I would doubt there's a market for that they would want to hit.
> The TAM100 must have done quite well for them to do the TAM10 and same for Bowen's model. So I could see them doing this at both ends, but we'll see.
> URE SPECULATION I DON'T KNOW .... ABOUT ANYTHING:



The M8M is so expensive because it's made by Sugi. They'll have to do a lot to this guitar to make it Fujigen and $6000.


----------



## jephjacques

Or just decide "we're Ibanez, it's Tosin's sig, screw you" 

(but I think you're right)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Specs help define pricing, but the biggest determinant is expected unit volume, basically how many they'll be making. 

The more units purchased/spoken for the lower they can make the unit price and take advantage of economy of scale. 

Of note, related to specs, it's not the materials nearly as much as the labor. On goods like these the labor greatly out costs materials.


----------



## ROAR

What's your guess on price Max?
Think they'll make a lower end?


----------



## metale

Any guess on how long until the TAMs get faded out? May get one if they are still around at the end of the year...


----------



## Mangle

Good chance they don't even go low end on this. At least not immediately. Not the way they're acting.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## MattThePenguin

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>




Gotta be my favorite song from them for sure


----------



## prlgmnr

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>




You know, the thing that gets in my way most when I attempt that technique is the pick falls out of my mouth and I have to go chasing it across the floor.


----------



## asher

prlgmnr said:


> You know, the thing that gets in my way most when I attempt that technique is the pick falls out of my mouth and I have to go chasing it across the floor.



Or you go to use it again and it's covered in saliva


----------



## ThePIGI King

asher said:


> Or you go to use it again and it's covered in saliva



Either you're doing it wrong, or more likely, I am. But I seldom put the pick in my mouth (it's unsanitary), but when I do, I just gently set it on my lower lip by the "top left" corner, and it could stay there even if my mouth was open, meaning that the top lip is there to support it even more. Maybe I'm just weird.

Anywho, killer guitar, would love to try one if it gets released, I really like the inlays on this.


----------



## asher

I can actually get it right but it's a pain


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Sorry if it has been mentioned b4, but has Tosin left Dimarzio and will be using Duncans now? Are these regular Blackouts in the vid. or new sig pickups?


----------



## jwade

He's been using a Pegasus/Sentient combo in most of his guitars for awhile now, if they're developing signature pickups, I don't think anything's been mentioned as of yet.


----------



## prlgmnr

ThePIGI King said:


> when I do, I just gently set it on my lower lip by the "top left" corner, and it could stay there even if my mouth was open, meaning that the top lip is there to support it even more.



You see, this is the kind of immediately applicable practical advice that you just couldn't get before the internet.


----------



## metale

jwade said:


> He's been using a Pegasus/Sentient combo in most of his guitars for awhile now, if they're developing signature pickups, I don't think anything's been mentioned as of yet.



He's probably been using them with the Ionizer single, right?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Looks like it, since Duncan doesn't make 8-string single coils without going to the custom shop.


----------



## putnut77

looks like a Strandberg Boden had a stroke and its forehead melted into a hump.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

Besides aesthetics, how do you guys think the guitar will sound? What do you guys think from the videos we have? His tone sounds great in the videos as usual but no distinctive differences for me (mmm cant wait for recordings yo). The two prototypes are hardly different in woods, except the new one has a maple fretboard. I can't really tell what the top piece is but from what I see from the woods this guitar is going to be way more bright? I sorta dislike that, personally because deeper tones please my ears, but also because I found the TAM100 really cool specifically due to the wood choices and pick up selection. That also leads me to ask, what do you guys think about the HH set up? Unless that knob is a push pull it seems like a downgrade from something as versatile like the TAM100. 10 channel pick up selection was pretty awesome.


----------



## metale

TAM 100 has 8 switching options, not 10 

He could have as much with only two humbuckers with a 5 way mega-switch and two push-pull pots:
Bridge full in series
Inside coils in parallel ala Petrucci
Both full humbuckers
Neck humbucker coils in parallel
Neck humbucker full in series


With a push-pull to split positions 1, 3 and 5
Another push-pull to reverse phase of the neck in positions 2 and 3

= 11 switching positions with just two humbuckers VS 8 on the TAM


----------



## jwade

TAM100 pickup switching options. 10:


----------



## metale

Look again. Positions 2 and 4 are repeated.


----------



## jwade

It's coil-tapped. That means different sounds, yo.


----------



## metale

"Coil tap" as in coil split, 90% of guitar brands name it wrong. Have you seen Ionizers with taps? Neither have I.


----------



## odibrom

jwade said:


> It's coil-tapped. That means different sounds, yo.



Coil tap means removing wounds/turns on a coil by some switch, coil split means turning a double coil system into a single coil one. *metale* is correct on this one, sorry.


----------



## jwade

Coil taps reduce the output and the result is a thinner, more quiet sound. That would be considered an alternate sound, meaning that there are 5 positions active under the coil tap setting that sound different. I still say it's got ten possible sound configurations. But hey, think what you want.


----------



## celticelk

Metale's right: positions 2 and 4 are split no matter which position the switch is in. Look at the highlighted active coils in the diagram. The TAM switching gives 8 distinct sounds.


----------



## metale

jwade said:


> Coil taps reduce the output and the result is a thinner, more quiet sound. That would be considered an alternate sound, meaning that there are 5 positions active under the coil tap setting that sound different. I still say it's got ten possible sound configurations. But hey, think what you want.



Look at the wiring diagram for the TAM, it's easy to see what your "coil tap" switch does. 

http://www.dimarzio.com/sites/default/files/diagrams/tosin_abasi_custom.pdf

There you go. Yo.


----------



## jwade

Didn't Dimarzio do a video showing the various configurations saying that with the coil tap, those were considered out of phase with coil tap engaged? That'd make for 2 more positions, no?


----------



## metale

The switch merely grounds a coil from which humbucker, I see no phase reversal there. Positions 2 and 4 are already split Vai style so it does nothing. It probably sounds out of phase as much as a strat's positions 2 and 4 sound out of phase (but aren't).

He COULD have 10 options there if it was wired that way. My HSH has full humbucker + middle single on those positions when my coil split switch is off.


----------



## jwade

My bad then, I could swear there was a video showing each of the various positions and how they sounded, including the coil tap being engaged and providing other sounds in 2/4

Maybe somebody has theirs modified (probably even someone here) to do so, and that was where I saw the video.


----------



## metale

I belive you are refering to Dimarzio's own video, with Tosin himself. He's the one who brings the term "out-of-phase" to the table, yet I clearly got the impression that he meant an out-of-phase _kind_ of sound and not by wiring. The diagram confirms this.

Also, out of phase would yeld a volume drop, and Tosin clearly states that it does not drop in volume (on that same video).

https://youtu.be/vBVRXQh5cU4

Hey, nothing against the TAM tho. It is an incredibly versatile guitar, and sincerly the two other "could-have-been" possibilities (full humbucker with middle single coil" aren't anything to write home about.


----------



## jwade

I remember that video, it's not the one I was thinking of. Ah well.


----------



## Edika

I'm surprised he doesn't have the middle pickup by itself as a switching option on the TAM100.


----------



## metale

Maybe it doesn't sound very good by itself. Even Dimarzio says it wasn't designed as a stand-alone pickup.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

Okay...so like I said the TAM100 has 10 channels/choices for pick up selection, while his new prototypes look like they lack such a versatile advantage. Unless his volume knob is a push pull I feel like he stepped back from the complicated versatile set up he had before? No HSH as well, which really made the TAM100 stand out too.

I don't think this too big a deal, or a deal breaker for him or customers at all, just wanted to point it out.

Besides that, I'm assuming this guitar is going to sound crisp! Maple fretboard, and possibly top, wenge/bubinga neck, basswood body, single cutaway and the multiscale sounds like a well rounded tonal guitar. 

Thoughts?


----------



## metale

Nour Ayasso said:


> Okay...so like I said the TAM100 has 10 channels/choices for pick up selection





Thoughts: it probably has push-pull(s).


----------



## prlgmnr

Nour Ayasso said:


> Okay...so like I said the TAM100 has 10 channels/choices for pick up selection, while his new prototypes look like they lack such a versatile advantage. Unless his volume knob is a push pull I feel like he stepped back from the complicated versatile set up he had before? No HSH as well, which really made the TAM100 stand out too.
> 
> I don't think this too big a deal, or a deal breaker for him or customers at all, just wanted to point it out.
> 
> Besides that, I'm assuming this guitar is going to sound crisp! Maple fretboard, and possibly top, wenge/bubinga neck, basswood body, single cutaway and the multiscale sounds like a well rounded tonal guitar.
> 
> Thoughts?



Maybe he thought there isn't much point having a new guitar made with exactly the same tonal options as the one he already has?


----------



## chassless

^ this could make sense. If he's going for such a radical change of design, maybe he though he'd might as well do the same for tonal options?


----------



## Zalbu

prlgmnr said:


> Maybe he thought there isn't much point having a new guitar made with exactly the same tonal options as the one he already has?


I mean, he went with so many tonal options for a reason, because the music he plays requires it, is he just going to switch back and forth between the TAM100 and the prototype when he's playing live? Seems a bit pointless if one guitar can cover all of it.


----------



## A-Branger

Zalbu said:


> I mean, he went with so many tonal options for a reason, because the music he plays requires it, is he just going to switch back and forth between the TAM100 and the prototype when he's playing live? Seems a bit pointless if one guitar can cover all of it.



maybe in reality he only uses a few of those settings, like 3-4 of them for 80% of the time and another 2 for 15% of the time and the rest for a really rare occasion. That 20% of special settings can be played with a normal 5 position switch, or a 3 way with coil split (not sure what is his new setting) in live. As for recordings, then yeah he would prob grab his old model guitar, or another brand.

Pretty common thing to do for artist. They record a section of the song using a strat or a tele, then live they jsut play it with their normal double humbucker guitar, as its not much point to have a guitar with a HSH config for a 5 second section of 1 or 2 songs out of your whole concert.

I even recall Steve Vai in an interview talking about his guitar and the pups combinations, saying that out of the 5 switch, he uses most of the time 2 positions, a third one pretty often, a fourth rarely, and a fifth position who never uses


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

If you watch the video of him playing CAFO at NAMM you can see and hear the in between positions in his gray prototype. So it's for sure a five way switch. It also makes sense seeing he's moved to Seymour Duncan and he doesn't have a middle pickup to match with the humbuckers like he did with his Ionizers. I wouldn't be surprised if Duncan is working on some middle pup for an 8 that pairs with the current humbuckers he's using. 
To me, this makes the most sense.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

prlgmnr said:


> Maybe he thought there isn't much point having a new guitar made with exactly the same tonal options as the one he already has?


I understand that, obviously he isn't building another TAM100 he's going for something very different, but ditching all those pick up selections is just going backwards. 


Zalbu said:


> I mean, he went with so many tonal options for a reason, because the music he plays requires it, is he just going to switch back and forth between the TAM100 and the prototype when he's playing live? Seems a bit pointless if one guitar can cover all of it.





A-Branger said:


> Pretty common thing to do for artist. They record a section of the song using a strat or a tele, then live they jsut play it with their normal double humbucker guitar, as its not much point to have a guitar with a HSH config for a 5 second section of 1 or 2 songs out of your whole concert.


Both good points, the TAM100 he aimed for extreme amount of tonal options and probably (like you said) only used mainly a few, he probably narrowed it down. Or if he has a push pull he's still keeping all of the options around. As for having different guitars live/in studio and switching between them...I mean he still pulls out blur for physical education, and I'm sure he'll continue switching around axes for various reasons. I do think the new model will compensate for what the TAM100 can't pull off (too an extent) but I don't think this guitar will 'cover all of it' 


AngstRiddenDreams said:


> If you watch the video of him playing CAFO at NAMM you can see and hear the in between positions in his gray prototype. So it's for sure a five way switch. It also makes sense seeing he's moved to Seymour Duncan and he doesn't have a middle pickup to match with the humbuckers like he did with his Ionizers. I wouldn't be surprised if Duncan is working on some middle pup for an 8 that pairs with the current humbuckers he's using.


I sure hope their developing a single coil, again not a huge deal but was a really cool feature etc.


----------



## metale

If SD are planning an eight string single coil, I sure hope they come out better than they did with their 7 string offerings where they thought it was a good thing to make them with staggered poles. How many 8 string guitars with 7,25" fretboard radius do we know?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

We should be oil speculators.


----------



## metale

Seems like confirmation that there are signature Seymour Duncans coming (check TA's, Keith Merrow's or SD's Instagram).


----------



## odibrom

metale said:


> Seems like confirmation that there are signature Seymour Duncans coming (check TA's, Keith Merrow's or SD's Instagram).



yep, saw that too


----------



## Mr GriND

demo of bias head amp with the black one !


----------



## IChuckFinleyI

Nour Ayasso said:


> Okay...so like I said the TAM100 has 10 channels/choices for pick up selection, while his new prototypes look like they lack such a versatile advantage. Unless his volume knob is a push pull I feel like he stepped back from the complicated versatile set up he had before? No HSH as well, which really made the TAM100 stand out too.
> 
> I don't think this too big a deal, or a deal breaker for him or customers at all, just wanted to point it out.
> 
> Besides that, I'm assuming this guitar is going to sound crisp! Maple fretboard, and possibly top, wenge/bubinga neck, basswood body, single cutaway and the multiscale sounds like a well rounded tonal guitar.
> 
> Thoughts?



Chances are he got tired of dealing with 10 different choices for the pickups. Having to remember to pickups in the middle of a song gets pretty annoying very quickly. Add in push/pull knobs and other switches... no thank you. 

The less you have to deal with that stuff, the more you can focus and lose yourself in this


----------



## odibrom

IChuckFinleyI said:


> Chances are he got tired of dealing with 10 different choices for the pickups. Having to remember to pickups in the middle of a song gets pretty annoying very quickly. Add in push/pull knobs and other switches... no thank you.
> 
> The less you have to deal with that stuff, the more you can focus and lose yourself in this



... well, yes and no. Different tones from pickups inspire you do different things. If you only play Hums in serial, how will you know what singles do on your expression?

I agree with what you mean, I face that problem on my tunes, 'cause the music changes are followed by pickup changes in most times and some aren't the best ones to move to... but then I get pragmatic and decide on what I really want from the tones I can get out of my guitars and amp settings.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

SD comment in one of the NAMM YT vids mentions that Tosin has Sentient/Pegasus in his new sig. So did they just slap a soap bar cover on these pickups, or did SD actually replace the pole pieces with a rail? Just curious.


----------



## cip 123

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> SD comment in one of the NAMM YT vids mentions that Tosin has Sentient/Pegasus in his new sig. So did they just slap a soap bar cover on these pickups, or did SD actually replace the pole pieces with a rail? Just curious.



SD make soapbar covers for all their 8 string models. They're on the website.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm guessing he went for covers so the off-kiltered polepieces don't show. 

He's working on a sig set of pickups, so they might be slanted to fit this guitar once it goes full production.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

cip 123 said:


> SD make soapbar covers for all their 8 string models. They're on the website.



So the cover is only cosmetic? To cover the pole pieces misalignment ?
I thought it'd be easier on SD's part, since pickups are slanted, to replace pole pieces by a rail.


----------



## jeremyb

Mr GriND said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNh1Auo5FAs
> 
> demo of bias head amp with the black one !



Pretty racist calling Tosin "the black one"....


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

jeremyb said:


> Pretty racist calling Tosin "the black one"....



mmm, I'm pretty sure he meant the guitar 'cos there's another prototype that's white.

*EDIT:*

Here


----------



## jeremyb

Ummmmmmm.....


----------



## chassless

^ i'm hoping that was a joke, right? 



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> He's working on a sig set of pickups



any info?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

chassless said:


> any info?


----------



## Spicypickles

Damned racists ....tards taking advantage of anonymity.


To clarify, the IG comments.


----------



## GenghisCoyne

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> mmm, I'm pretty sure he meant the guitar 'cos there's another prototype that's white.
> 
> *EDIT:*
> 
> Here





whoosh.gif


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

> Got this baby back with a pair of the @seymourduncanpickups prototype pickups I voiced with @keithmerrow. Looking and sounding all sick&#55358;&#56600;&#55356;&#57343;&#10024;
> #notheyarenotactives #yestheydj0nt


----------



## jephjacques

The more I see it the more I dig it


----------



## geeman8

jephjacques said:


> The more I see it the more I dig it



Same here.... The more I see Tosin play it the more it makes sense


----------



## cubix

The more I see it the more I realise it shouldn't have a headstock ... lol


----------



## Randy

When you see just the silhouette, it looks a LOT like a singlecut Strandberg.


----------



## MattThePenguin

I have played the black one. Sat down for about a minute or 2 with it. It's pretty awesome. If anyone has specific questions, I'll try and answer them. It's easily the most comfortable neck on any 8 string that I've ever played.


----------



## ThePIGI King

MattThePenguin said:


> I have played the black one. Sat down for about a minute or 2 with it. It's pretty awesome. If anyone has specific questions, I'll try and answer them. It's easily the most comfortable neck on any 8 string that I've ever played.



Where and how did you get to play it, if I may ask? And my questions are:

1) I can't remember the fan, what is the fan (approx.)?
1.1) Is the fan comfy?
2) Any neck dive noticeable?
3) Is the neck comparable to other 8 string Ibbys?

Thanks dude


----------



## MattThePenguin

ThePIGI King said:


> Where and how did you get to play it, if I may ask? And my questions are:
> 
> 1) I can't remember the fan, what is the fan (approx.)?
> 1.1) Is the fan comfy?
> 2) Any neck dive noticeable?
> 3) Is the neck comparable to other 8 string Ibbys?
> 
> Thanks dude



It was at an open house at AIMM today!

The fan is comfy, but I don't know the scale. I just know it works well. The strings were really light and rung out pretty well. 

There was neck dive, but you can sit in two different positions. When Tosin was standing and talking it balanced perfectly. 

The neck is entirely different from other 8 string Ibbys. Tosin went with a narrow string spacing and a teardrop neck shape. What I mean by teardrop is that the neck is thicker on the treble side and thinner on the bass side. This allows your hand to rest naturally, and with the thinner spacing you have access to the entire range of the 8 strings. 

I'm not an 8 string player, I was mainly playing Opeth acoustic stuff because I didn't have a pick, but I'm glad I had those restraints because I learned that the guitar is extremely easy to pick up and play. The narrow string spacing didn't affect my ability to finger pick at all. Tosin played The Woven Web and absolutely nailed the groovy part so I'm sure he likes it too. 

As someone who is primarily a 7 string player, if I were to move to an 8 this is the guitar that would be my first choice. It's not obnoxiously large and it looks pretty space age. I think that's pretty cool The bevel is galaxy black and the top is matte, I thought that was awesome. 

He confirmed there will be two models also, one that isn't "as much as a used car."


----------



## Mathemagician

That white one gives me a bohn-ah! And from your review it does sound very comfortable, looking forward to hearing more about this as it gets closer to release. I hope both versions come with his new set of pickups and not just the used-camaro priced one.


----------



## MattThePenguin

Mathemagician said:


> That white one gives me a bohn-ah! And from your review it does sound very comfortable, looking forward to hearing more about this as it gets closer to release. I hope both versions come with his new set of pickups and not just the used-camaro priced one.



I'm sure they will. I asked him about it and he said they're going for as few compromises as possible. The idea is that it'll just be made in a different factory. The TAM10 comes with Ionizers, just like the TAM100. I'm sure the main differences will be similar to the previous model. The cheaper one, if I were to guess, will come with more common woods and cheaper hardware, but still will still the unique shape and playability of his prototypes.

EDIT: Another thing to note, the guitar is VERY light.


----------



## ThePIGI King

MattThePenguin said:


> It was at an open house at AIMM today!
> 
> The fan is comfy, but I don't know the scale. I just know it works well. The strings were really light and rung out pretty well.
> 
> There was neck dive, but you can sit in two different positions. When Tosin was standing and talking it balanced perfectly.
> 
> The neck is entirely different from other 8 string Ibbys. Tosin went with a narrow string spacing and a teardrop neck shape. What I mean by teardrop is that the neck is thicker on the treble side and thinner on the bass side. This allows your hand to rest naturally, and with the thinner spacing you have access to the entire range of the 8 strings.
> 
> I'm not an 8 string player, I was mainly playing Opeth acoustic stuff because I didn't have a pick, but I'm glad I had those restraints because I learned that the guitar is extremely easy to pick up and play. The narrow string spacing didn't affect my ability to finger pick at all. Tosin played The Woven Web and absolutely nailed the groovy part so I'm sure he likes it too.
> 
> As someone who is primarily a 7 string player, if I were to move to an 8 this is the guitar that would be my first choice. It's not obnoxiously large and it looks pretty space age. I think that's pretty cool The bevel is galaxy black and the top is matte, I thought that was awesome.
> 
> He confirmed there will be two models also, one that isn't "as much as a used car."



Thanks for the info dude! Super stoked about the stuff you just listed. I'm not sure how I feel about the narrower strings, or the neck profile, but it sounds like it might be something I could benefit from. Would love to try one out sometime. And an affordable model of this would be killer. "Affordable" for that thing will still probably pop in between $1500-$2000 though.

Thanks again dude!


----------



## Señor Voorhees

If they can get the price for the budget friendly one close to $1500, I may pick one up with my taxes one year. I hated the damn thing when I first saw it announced, but it definitely grew on me. Seeing him play it live helped, too. The white one in particular really is a nice looking guitar.


----------



## Mathemagician

I absolutely don't expect to see it below $1500 likely the "$1899-1999" price point. And I love narrower string spacing. When I switch from my ESP to my Ibby it's like night and day. And EBMM's also have narrower necks. Great if you have smaller hands. For a fanned 8 I bet it helps a lot in not just giving up on ever using the lowest strings for chords too. $20 says WMI in SK ends up making the less expensive one, lol.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

Oh my


----------



## marcwormjim

A year later, and I still feel it was kind of Tosin to design a tool for Centaurs to hold toilet paper with.


----------



## ite89

I still think that it will be made in indonesia like all of the other signature ibbys. I'm also expecting it to cost around 1899-2000 usd since i think the stoneman costs around that much.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

^ Most Ibby signatures are made in Japan, like the TAM100 and many others. Since the TAM100, an RG2228 based model cost 4k , I'm strongly assuming an exotic bodied multiscale is going to cost much more.


----------



## ite89

^ it was mentioned that he was going to release a "lower priced model", by that I assumed it was going to made in indonesia. I wasn't talking about an the MIJ model since we all know that it's going to be absurdly expensive.


----------



## Nour Ayasso

Aahhhh ok now I see, my bad! Boy 2k or less for the lower production model would be very cool! 1500 would be more sensible, depending on the specs I guess. 

For real though, no one thinks the natural look on this model looks very good? I like it more than black, maybe for obvious reasons.


----------



## jwade

I still find it very odd that with the sort of pull he has these days, the fret ends are showing. Give the man some binding, or blind cut those fret slots!


----------



## GuitarBizarre

jwade said:


> I still find it very odd that with the sort of pull he has these days, the fret ends are showing. Give the man some binding, or blind cut those fret slots!


Believe it or not, outside of the echo-chamber-like confines of this website, hyper-technical exercises in shredding are not that popular.

Here's what scant few "numbers" I was able to find on Wikipedia:

_*"The Joy of Motion*_ is the third album by instrumental progressive metal group Animals as Leaders. It was released on March 24, 2014 in Europe, March 25, 2014 in North America and on March 28, 2014 in Australia and New Zealand by Sumerian Records.[6][7] The entire album was previously made available on YouTube on March 19, 2014.[8]
Around 13,000 copies of _The Joy of Motion_ were bought in the United States during the first week of its release. It debuted at No. 23 on the Billboard 200 chart.[9] It has sold 50,000 copies in the United States as of November 2016.[10]"



He's extremely popular within a *tiny* niche. I'd be willing to bet that any given Ozzy Osbourne album with Zakk Wylde on it outsold Tosin's last release over the last 6 months.


----------



## Mathemagician

I'm hoping to see a $1.599 indo-made one, but fully expect it to come in at $1,899 given the unusual everything about it relative to just another production 6 string. Like this a LOT more than plain black.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

GuitarBizarre said:


> Believe it or not, outside of the echo-chamber-like confines of this website, hyper-technical exercises in shredding are not that popular.
> 
> Here's what scant few "numbers" I was able to find on Wikipedia:
> 
> _*"The Joy of Motion*_ is the third album by instrumental progressive metal group Animals as Leaders. It was released on March 24, 2014 in Europe, March 25, 2014 in North America and on March 28, 2014 in Australia and New Zealand by Sumerian Records.[6][7] The entire album was previously made available on YouTube on March 19, 2014.[8]
> Around 13,000 copies of _The Joy of Motion_ were bought in the United States during the first week of its release. It debuted at No. 23 on the Billboard 200 chart.[9] It has sold 50,000 copies in the United States as of November 2016.[10]"
> 
> 
> 
> He's extremely popular within a *tiny* niche. I'd be willing to bet that any given Ozzy Osbourne album with Zakk Wylde on it outsold Tosin's last release over the last 6 months.



A tiny niche that seems to have no problem buying $4k guitars.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

MaxOfMetal said:


> A tiny niche that seems to have no problem buying $4k guitars.


With, or without, hidden fret ends, obviously.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

GuitarBizarre said:


> With, or without, hidden fret ends, obviously.



I don't see why that matters as it's purely an aesthetic thing.


----------



## jwade

GuitarBizarre said:


> Unrelated wall of text



None of that is even remotely related to what I'm talking about. A lot of people have bought his signature models, and he obviously has Ibanez working hard on his new design, I'm talking specifically about his relationship with Ibanez.


----------



## MSUspartans777

I remember when this guitar was announced. I felt it was meh. Then I saw Tosin play it live and suddenly I was in love with the design hahaha. Can't wait to see this in production


----------



## Nour Ayasso

MaxOfMetal said:


> A tiny niche that seems to have no problem buying $4k guitars.





Mathemagician said:


> Like this a LOT more than plain black.



Yee!


----------



## Loganator456

I think the frosted-white/gold version is absolutely gorgeous. If only it were neck-through so we could get in on some of that BTB single-cut action...


----------



## domsch1988

A bit quiet on this thing... If it hits the market anytime in the next months i'll be so buying a white one! Especially if they keep this sexy, natural, unfinished neck and fishman pickups in the budget option.
This Guitar is basically what a custom would look like, if i'd order one. Longer scale, but that's it. But i won't complain about an inch of scale with a production model guitar


----------



## Lemonbaby

How much longer is it gonna take? The current sig is marked as discontinued since months on the website. I'm also willing to bet the low end model (most likely from the Premium factory Indonesia) will be more expensive than a Premium JEM. And that one's already more pricey than a basic Prestige. My bets: $1799 and $3299 for the &#8220;real&#8220; sig...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Probably waiting for Summer NAMM, which is typically when they release a small batch of new/updated models. While they've been releasing more and more out of the typical NAMM cycle, sigs are pretty much always announced at one of the NAMM shows. So keep an eye out around mid July.

It should be said that while this seems like it's taking forever to come to fruition, in the past it has always taken years from concept to release of signature model instruments. It's just now, with the prevalence of social media we're seeing this whole thing from almost the very beginning.


----------



## lewis

by the time this does drop, 1 month afterwards he would have moved onto the next best "shape" or "pickups" making this signature model instantly out of date.


----------



## Lemons

lewis said:


> by the time this does drop, 1 month afterwards he would have moved onto the next best "shape" or "pickups" making this signature model instantly out of date.



What are you going on about? 

I mean he's only had one signature model guitar that he recently stopped using in favour of the new prototypes.


----------



## odibrom

Lemons said:


> What are you going on about?
> 
> I mean he's only had one signature model guitar that he recently stopped using in favour of the new prototypes.



That was supposed to be a joke as to my understanding... and I kind of agree on that...


----------



## A-Branger

chances are they are going to release it at summer NAMM. Also it could be that they might be facing the problems with the rosewood CITES thing, which is affecting the factories


----------



## PawPrints77

at the Tosin Abasi clinic this week, he did say he's hoping it will be Summer NAMM this year.

He also said that it has been taking long because whenever he tweaks or changes the specs on the guitar, the turnaround with Ibanez is usually about 4 months time. But he said he's done with changing things on the guitar, so hopefully soon.


----------



## BangandBreach

Lemons said:


> What are you going on about?
> 
> I mean he's only had one signature model guitar that he recently stopped using in favour of the new prototypes.



lol, he's no rusty cooley, but the other poster wasn't wrong.


----------



## sezna

There's a chinese copy of it already. I...didn't think this would happen. It isn't even in production yet, lol. I wonder if the fact that a copy exists means that Ibanez ordered some to be made from an asian factory already, and the specs made their way around?

Aliexpress link.

Someone please sacrifice their morals and some money because I'm curious.

Also, I e-mailed ibanez and they said they are working on bringing this model to production and that it will be "soon". 

I haven't seen the back of the real deal tosin sig, but I doubt the upper "horn" (what do you call it if it isn't a cutout?) meets the neck like this:






Also, is that the real jack position? Interesting.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

sezna said:


> There's a chinese copy of it already. I...didn't think this would happen. It isn't even in production yet, lol. I wonder if the fact that a copy exists means that Ibanez ordered some to be made from an asian factory already, and the specs made their way around?
> 
> Aliexpress link.
> 
> Someone please sacrifice their morals and some money because I'm curious.
> 
> Also, I e-mailed ibanez and they said they are working on bringing this model to production and that it will be "soon".
> 
> I haven't seen the back of the real deal tosin sig, but I doubt the upper "horn" (what do you call it if it isn't a cutout?) meets the neck like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, is that the real jack position? Interesting.



That, or they just went by pics alone. They tend to do that.


----------



## sezna

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That, or they just went by pics alone. They tend to do that.



That might explain why the back of it is so weird.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

so are we still going to set up that raffle for the chinese version? lol


----------



## sezna

KnightBrolaire said:


> so are we still going to set up that raffle for the chinese version? lol


maybe we should wait until the clone at least gets better...look at the back of that neck joint. yeesh.
is it the glare making the back look so misshapen?


----------



## stinkoman

Any word about this at the summer NAMM?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So looks like he has another one... But it has a different headstock?


----------



## curlyvice

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So looks like he has another one... But it has a different headstock?




Doesn't look like anything other Ibby headstock I've seen. I really liked the greyish one with the gold hardware so I hope that one or one of the other solid colors makes it into production eventually because I can't stand those Kiesel-ish bevels on that guitar.


----------



## ImNotAhab

Is that a Schecter!?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I don't know if that's a Schecter...

...But if that ends up being one, then I swear to god this site will implode.

Probably just a prototype headstock design.


----------



## frank falbo

Schecter makes some amazing instruments. Their USA Custom Shop is as good as any. 

But it’s not a Schecter.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

frank falbo said:


> Schecter makes some amazing instruments. Their USA Custom Shop is as good as any.
> 
> But it’s not a Schecter.



Thought so. So it's just a new Ibanez design?


----------



## Matt08642

Weird...

He also changed the truss rod opening to near the neck pickup

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/5b/bd/cd/5bbdcd2cac5496af1be7d40bea59be5f--tosin-abasi-guitar-rack.jpg


----------



## Randy

Maybe just a random custom that's inspired by his Ibanez proto?


----------



## Hollowway

Me: OH MY GOD ITS ALMOST FOR SALE!

Me, in 2016: OH MY GOD ITS ALMOST FOR SALE!

Me, in 2015: OH MY GOD ITS ALMOST FOR SALE!


----------



## VigilSerus

New headstock shape, interesting


----------



## marcwormjim

Hollowway said:


> Me: OH MY GOD ITS ALMOST FOR SALE!
> 
> Me, in 2016: OH MY GOD ITS ALMOST FOR SALE!
> 
> Me, in 2015: OH MY GOD ITS ALMOST FOR SALE!



It doesn’t just mirror a Strandberg in looks.


----------



## A-Branger

but does it says Ibanez? and hey, no weird fretboard triangle of death after the nut!! yay, also wtf is with the first photo?, where is the toggle swith? and knobs?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

A-Branger said:


> wtf is with the first photo?, where is the toggle swith? and knobs?



He has moved the pickup selector back compared to previous prototypes so most likely trying to figure out the ideal placement for the volume knob. Since the Fishmans are quite response to volume changes he'd want it within reach of playing but you also need it out of the way enough so you don't hit off it playing.


----------



## Spicypickles

Meh, the shape is ok, I wouldn't mind an import version.

I do have somewhat of an issue with everyone throwing cancer maple on everything. It's vaguely interesting, but when it's on every model its the new all black guitar. Bonus points for maple board though.


----------



## Mathemagician

Still more visually interesting than solid black.

I’d always rather have more options even if they aren’t my preference than just solid “safe” black.

(I still just want to see a burl or spalted maple EBMM JP series.)


----------



## jephjacques

SHit, that looks really good


----------



## lewis

hahahaha the headstock on the Chinese copy is like 25 inches long hahaha


----------



## ImNotAhab

The headstock is really reminiscent of the Schecter KM kmIII... Looks pretty cool overall.


----------



## Matt08642

ImNotAhab said:


> The headstock is really reminiscent of the Schecter KM kmIII... Looks pretty cool overall.



Yeah I don't know if my eyes are playing tricks, but that looks like a Schecter headstock.


----------



## A-Branger

Lorcan Ward said:


> He has moved the pickup selector back compared to previous prototypes so most likely trying to figure out the ideal placement for the volume knob. Since the Fishmans are quite response to volume changes he'd want it within reach of playing but you also need it out of the way enough so you don't hit off it playing.


yeh but if you see the photo, theres the groove for the 5 way(or 3) switch, yet theres no switch







also theres no volume/tone knobs, or mini toggle for the fishmans or push/pull. And theres not enough space on that bottom left part of the guitar boddy to accomodate for everything


----------



## noise in my mind

Seems like somebody switched to Schecter.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

new photo confirms switch/ knob placement.


----------



## Hollowway

KnightBrolaire said:


> new photo confirms switch/ knob placement.



OK, that right there has me drooling. I'm not a fan of the bevel on the lower horn, but the rest of them give a really cool shape. And it's not a super strat - yaaay! I would totally buy this. What's that? It'll be $5000 street? OK, I would totally buy the MII version when it comes out! 

But let's be honest. It never will come out. At this point, I'm not even sure the guitar exists in any form. This photo looks eerily like the guitar was photoshopped into a a picture of Tosin holding a Jazz bass.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Hollowway said:


> OK, that right there has me drooling. I'm not a fan of the bevel on the lower horn, but the rest of them give a really cool shape. And it's not a super strat - yaaay! I would totally buy this. What's that? It'll be $5000 street? OK, I would totally buy the MII version when it comes out!
> 
> But let's be honest. It never will come out. At this point, I'm not even sure the guitar exists in any form. This photo looks eerily like the guitar was photoshopped into a a picture of Tosin holding a Jazz bass.


yeah the lower horn bevel is gross, same with the pau ferro fret board. If that was maple or ebony I'd be a lot more intereste.


----------



## A-Branger

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah the lower horn bevel is gross, same with the pau ferro fret board. If that was maple or ebony I'd be a lot more intereste.


I think it might be roasted flame maple


----------



## KnightBrolaire

A-Branger said:


> I think it might be roasted flame maple


either way, brown fretboard= no go from me. Just doesn't give the contrast like a good ebony or maple board would.


----------



## A-Branger

KnightBrolaire said:


> either way, brown fretboard= no go from me. Just doesn't give the contrast like a good ebony or maple board would.



agree


----------



## couverdure

I don't understand the problem with brown fretboards, I always thought they were the standard for almost every guitar.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

couverdure said:


> I don't understand the problem with brown fretboards, I always thought they were the standard for almost every guitar.



Probably the problem. It becomes the standard, so every guitar has it. Some people just find every guitar having brown fretboards boring. 

Count me as one of those guys.  I like either maple or ebony. I'm bored of rosewood.


----------



## A-Branger

problem is the shade of that brown vs the color scheme of the guitar.

would you wear brown shoes with a black suit?, probably not. But you would on a caky suit with white shirt. Me I wont even do that I would wear white shoes.

Some people like a blue suit with brown shoes. I rather use black. You get the idea, its all a matter of taste. I think a roasted fretboard on a white guitar could look awesome, but not so much ona grey one. Nothing wrong in this one, but I would rather normal flame maple instead


----------



## lewis

lets be honest, it looks 100X better with a maple fretboard.... -


----------



## diagrammatiks

LEt's be honest. is this ever going to be a guitar other people can buy.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Even if it were, look at the number of people in this thread who were hyped about it at first, but with every prototype are now coming out of the woodwork and saying "Ugh <feature> is a dealbreaker, I'd have bought it if it didn't have that/cost so much/have so much competition on the marketplace now"

This thread is a hilarious example of how people on guitar forums crow and cry about hyped new products, and then when the products are actually available never put their money where their mouths are.


----------



## Matt08642

diagrammatiks said:


> LEt's be honest. is this ever going to be a guitar other people can buy.



I feel like there might have been things (features Tosin wants) Ibanez maybe wouldn't cave on (Other artists like Chris Broderick and Rusty Cooley left Ibanez cause they wouldn't do certain things to their guitars, IIRC). Maybe he pulled a reverse Wes Hauch and jumped to Schecter, since they will do literally almost anything it seems for endorsees.


----------



## Hollowway

A-Branger said:


> problem is the shade of that brown vs the color scheme of the guitar.
> 
> would you wear brown shoes with a black suit?, probably not. But you would on a caky suit with white shirt. Me I wont even do that I would wear white shoes.
> 
> Some people like a blue suit with brown shoes. I rather use black. You get the idea, its all a matter of taste. I think a roasted fretboard on a white guitar could look awesome, but not so much ona grey one. Nothing wrong in this one, but I would rather normal flame maple instead



This sounds exactly like me.  People think I'm weird about how I am with guitar specs. Like, I cannot STAND a rosewood FB on a black guitar. But put one on a honeyburst or killerburst, and suddenly I calm way down.


----------



## Hollowway

GuitarBizarre said:


> This thread is a hilarious example of how people on guitar forums crow and cry about hyped new products, and then when the products are actually available never put their money where their mouths are.



I think this is a better example of how a guitar company keeps crowing about hyped new products, and then never make them available. It's been over 2 years since this thing has been in development, and about the only thing they haven't changed is Tosin holding it.


----------



## Matt08642

GuitarBizarre said:


> Even if it were, look at the number of people in this thread who were hyped about it at first, but with every prototype are now coming out of the woodwork and saying "Ugh <feature> is a dealbreaker, I'd have bought it if it didn't have that/cost so much/have so much competition on the marketplace now"
> 
> This thread is a hilarious example of how people on guitar forums crow and cry about hyped new products, and then *when the products are actually available never put their money where their mouths are*.



Can you pop in some quick links as to where anyone could have purchased any of the prototypes Tosin has been using?


----------



## technomancer

Hollowway said:


> I think this is a better example of how a guitar company keeps crowing about hyped new products, and then never make them available. It's been over 2 years since this thing has been in development, and about the only thing they haven't changed is Tosin holding it.



I'm honestly curious as I don't follow Ibanez that closely, but have they actually posted anything about this being a model they are going to release or promoted it? Or has it just been photos of Tosin playing live and Tosin giving clinics and whatnot? The photos of this I have seen have been Tosin sharing stuff or it being used in pickup demos from what I can recall.


----------



## Hollowway

technomancer said:


> I'm honestly curious as I don't follow Ibanez that closely, but have they actually posted anything about this being a model they are going to release or promoted it? Or has it just been photos of Tosin playing live and Tosin giving clinics and whatnot? The photos of this I have seen have been Tosin sharing stuff or it being used in pickup demos from what I can recall.



I don’t follow it super closely, but I think there has been no official statement about this being ever offered. 
Anyone remember us Tosin suggested it might? Techno has a good point - it might be just for Tosin, and not us plebs.


----------



## Veldar

I would assume that all parties involved want to get it right before trying to produce a cheap version of it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Hollowway said:


> I don’t follow it super closely, but I think there has been no official statement about this being ever offered.
> Anyone remember us Tosin suggested it might? Techno has a good point - it might be just for Tosin, and not us plebs.


I think given the success of his other model they'll eventually release this one, though I'm betting the indo version will be painted, and the mij will be the maple topped one (or they might make it the indo premium version since I'd bet the old indo sigs sold better than the mij).


----------



## Vyn

Not sure if it's been posted yet but this was on Keith's Instagram a few days ago.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcBf0DMFUwv/?taken-by=keithmerrow


----------



## A-Branger

lewis said:


> lets be honest, it looks 100X better with a maple fretboard.... -



see how much better it looks?, specially because now it blends/matches with the masked binding of the top. It makes more sense now, add black dots to go with the black pups and hardware and presto!




technomancer said:


> I'm honestly curious as I don't follow Ibanez that closely, but have they actually posted anything about this being a model they are going to release or promoted it? Or has it just been photos of Tosin playing live and Tosin giving clinics and whatnot? The photos of this I have seen have been Tosin sharing stuff or it being used in pickup demos from what I can recall.


Ibanez put it on display at last year winter NAMM, not sure under what name, but if they did if because they might be thinking to release it. I do not think Ibanez would be a brand to make fully custom one-off shapes to one of their main sig artist and then not release the guitar to the public. I bet they are jsut fine tunning the specs and looks of the guitar. Takes a whie to build prototypes, give it to the artist to try and take on tour, give feedback, make another one ect ect. Specially with such a new shape


----------



## lewis

seems clear as day he has jumped to Schecter. Lets be honest, you cant blame him.

Ibanez are always so fussy with artists. And after what 3 Ibanez Protos?. There was still something not right about it. Insisting on their garbage RG8 headstock on it was terrible.

Straight away the body shape with that Schecter headstock just works.


----------



## ImBCRichBitch

https://www.instagram.com/p/BcMLS-2ACMR/?hl=en&taken-by=tosinabasi Idk if its the same one but here is an ibby headstock. That one looks more schecterish or something else but hopefully not an ibby. i feel like it would either be extremely overpriced or major problems with a cheap version. Probably basswood, painted, generic hardware and neck, and still over a grand


----------



## Chokey Chicken

technomancer said:


> I'm honestly curious as I don't follow Ibanez that closely, but have they actually posted anything about this being a model they are going to release or promoted it? Or has it just been photos of Tosin playing live and Tosin giving clinics and whatnot? The photos of this I have seen have been Tosin sharing stuff or it being used in pickup demos from what I can recall.



This is what I've been thinking since it was announced. I remember everyone getting hyped, and I was thinking that nothing was ever announced. Has Ibanez even actually talked about the guitar? I don't really keep up with them, but this guitar always kind of just gave the "custom non-production" vibe to me.


----------



## technomancer

A-Branger said:


> Ibanez put it on display at last year winter NAMM, not sure under what name, but if they did if because they might be thinking to release it. I do not think Ibanez would be a brand to make fully custom one-off shapes to one of their main sig artist and then not release the guitar to the public. I bet they are jsut fine tunning the specs and looks of the guitar. Takes a whie to build prototypes, give it to the artist to try and take on tour, give feedback, make another one ect ect. Specially with such a new shape



Yeah thing is Ibanez had custom one off 8 strings with marble finishes (I forget if they were for Korn or Dino or who) on display at NAMM literally years (like 4+ IIRC) before they finally released the Prestige 8. They were LACS artist guitars on display. I'm not saying it won't get released, just that for all the crazy in here Ibanez hasn't presented these as anything but custom builds for Tosin at NAMM.



Chokey Chicken said:


> This is what I've been thinking since it was announced. I remember everyone getting hyped, and I was thinking that nothing was ever announced. Has Ibanez even actually talked about the guitar? I don't really keep up with them, but this guitar always kind of just gave the "custom non-production" vibe to me.



Yeah that's sort of what is seems to me at this stage. Like it may become a model but at this stage they are just Tosin's LACS one-offs. I just looked and the only sign of the guitar on the Ibanez site is in the embed of Tosin's social media feeds.


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah and the Meshuggah guys had their 8s for quite some time before they were offered to the public. I'm sure we'll see them at some point but I don't think Tosin getting different revisions of the design is an indicator that they'll necessarily release them anytime soon.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Matt08642 said:


> Can you pop in some quick links as to where anyone could have purchased any of the prototypes Tosin has been using?



I was making a totally different point, about how people hype themselves for products and then when it comes to it, always find a reason not to buy them, but sure, how bout here:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Custom-shop-multi-scaled-8-strings-guitar-Fanned-Frets-Free-shipping-customized-logo-weill-be-added/32834972831.html?ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_10130_10345_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_10340_10341_10548_10192_10541_10190_10084_10083_10307_10301_10303_10539_10312_10059_10313_10314_10184_10534_100031_10604_10603_10103_10605_10596_10142_10107,searchweb201603_25,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=4b2b375a-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019-2&algo_pvid=4b2b375a-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019&rmStoreLevelAB=3


----------



## KnightBrolaire

GuitarBizarre said:


> I was making a totally different point, about how people hype themselves for products and then when it comes to it, always find a reason not to buy them, but sure, how bout here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cus...-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019&rmStoreLevelAB=3
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cus...-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019&rmStoreLevelAB=3


that has more to do with the fact that aliexpress guitars run the gamut from expensive firewood to holy shit it's actually playable. I think enough people here have experimented with buying chinese knockoffs that it's generally considered to be a big gamble. If you get a shitty ibanez from a dealer/store you can actually return it versus trying to return an aliexpress guitar is probably a bit more work (if the seller even lets you return it).


----------



## lewis

GuitarBizarre said:


> I was making a totally different point, about how people hype themselves for products and then when it comes to it, always find a reason not to buy them, but sure, how bout here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cus...-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019&rmStoreLevelAB=3
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cus...-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019&rmStoreLevelAB=3


is it me, or does their version of the Ibanez headstock, add about 10 more inches to its length!?!?


----------



## diagrammatiks

GuitarBizarre said:


> I was making a totally different point, about how people hype themselves for products and then when it comes to it, always find a reason not to buy them, but sure, how bout here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cus...-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019&rmStoreLevelAB=3
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cus...-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019&rmStoreLevelAB=3



Pretend I’m linking the jacky Chan confused face because how is that in any way comparable?


----------



## Zalbu

Didn't the guitar have a price tag when they put it up at NAMM or am I thinking about the TAM100? It would be a real kick in the nuts to see Tosin leave Ibanez after all these years but if it turns out that Ibanez won't actually release his model then I guess you can't really blame him.


----------



## cip 123

It's unclear from the photos about the headstock as they always seem to just a little bit too obscure. Like you can see the shape, but it's always got weird lighting or bad angles that make it hard to see properly.

That being said what Lewis stated I wouldn't blame him if he moved to Schecter, he hangs with Keith a lot, has no qualms about leaving a company even last minute. And the Schecter USA stuff is crazy good, recently got a Custom Shop and it slays anything I've ever played. 

Though it's just wild speculation. Tosin has said before in videos I'm sure that the guitar with Ibanez is a Prototype, which typically implies for mass production, otherwise he'd probably just say "it's a one off"


----------



## StevenC




----------



## xCaptainx

Keith commented on Instagram that the new guitar is not a Schecter but also confirmed that it is not an Ibby. 

Interesting...


----------



## ImBCRichBitch

Anyone else getting a Ken Lawrence feel from that headstock now? like James Hetfields Exlorer?


----------



## Hollowway

GuitarBizarre said:


> I was making a totally different point, about how people hype themselves for products and then when it comes to it, always find a reason not to buy them, but sure, how bout here:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cus...-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019&rmStoreLevelAB=3
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cus...-b9a4-4f1a-867d-bbb18c407019&rmStoreLevelAB=3



 You know those are Chinese knockoffs, right? I'm not sure people being hyped about an Ibanez Tosin sign can be criticized for not buying a Chinese knockoff. That's just a really odd argument you're making.


----------



## Lemonbaby

Japanese companies are veeery slow moving by definition. Just lean back and wait another two years. The upper management is probably still discussing if they should release a model with something apart from the traditional shapes at all...


----------



## Lorcan Ward

xCaptainx said:


> Keith commented on Instagram that the new guitar is not a Schecter but also confirmed that it is not an Ibby.
> 
> Interesting...



How helped him designed it? I was a builder who posts here occasionally I think. Maybe he built him one? 

Does that mean He's leaving Ibanez then?


----------



## cip 123

Man Tosin must make any companies anxiety skyrocket, he is ruthless! First Seymour now this


----------



## Lorcan Ward

You mean first EMG, then dimarzio, then BKP, then Duncan, now Fishman.


----------



## chassless

^ do we know which BKP models he fiddled with ?


----------



## cip 123

Lorcan Ward said:


> You mean first EMG, then dimarzio, then BKP, then Duncan, now Fishman.



More the fact he went to the point of releasing Duncans and at the last minute jumped for Fishman. Basically Duncan would've spent a good bit of time and money with R&D and he jumped last second.

Ibanez would've done the same and he's jumped 

Dimarzio still got through launch.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

The headstock looked almost vaguely like a ran headstock. Probably not the case, but that's where my mind jumped the second I saw it. lol

I am curious though. Not surprised either. It was a little strange to me that someone like Tosin would sign on to a particular brand, as he tends to like trying different things constantly. Same with Misha. Dude is such a gear nerd, I was surprised to see he signed on with Jackson, as good as those guitars are. It seems to me that people just shouldn't have Tosin endorse things. He changes up frequently enough where it might be detrimental to the whole hype that is supposed to surround signature models. I'm sure there's someone out there impressionable enough to pass on a brand because they "clearly weren't good enough for Tosin." 

I think the fact that Keith Merrow has stuck with Schecter, and Misha stuck with Jackson speaks volumes. They both still have great things to say about the brands, and it's clear both of them really like their instruments. Nothing against Tosin of course... It just seems pointless to give him a signature ANYTHING. lol


----------



## cip 123

I think there will always be hype for his stuff, not to mention the stuff he actually gets to release is pretty good. His Dimarzios are still some of my favourite pups, and the original TAM still one of the classiest looking 8's out there imo.

Just needs a company that can keep him around long enough to get something else out


----------



## Zalbu

I think he's finally going to stick to Fluence because they actually offer a solution to the problems he's had with pickups in the past, that the clean tones isn't what he's looking for when making a pickups that's voiced for metal tones and Fluence is basically the first company where you can get them both without needing to compromise on either the clean tone or the dirty tone. Remember his TAM100 guitar, he runs HSH with a coil split on it, it was probably a huge pain in the ass live to have 10 different kinds of sounds to choose from. I'm not sure what control scheme he has on his new prototype though, it looks like it's just a 5 way switch.

But maybe we're all just freaking out for no reason and it could just be a custom shop guitar, I'm pretty sure he doesn't have some kind of exclusivity deal with Ibanez since he's always using Strandbergs and that funky looking Rick Toone guitar live.

Edit: Scratch that, it seems like he has the 5 way switch and a push pull according to this video. He also says in that video that he was done designing the prototype and that it would be released "soon", back in July, so either Ibanez are dragging their feet behind them or Tosin decided to pull the plug.


----------



## Bdtunn

With that kind of bevel and woods it looks dangerously like a K!?$&l......


----------



## MastrXploder

Just got off tour with Tosin, can confirm this guitar is the best one he's gotten so far. And it won't be that expensive


----------



## Vyn

MastrXploder said:


> Just got off tour with Tosin, can confirm this guitar is the best one he's gotten so far. And it won't be that expensive



Can you confirm the manufacturer?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MastrXploder said:


> Just got off tour with Tosin, can confirm this guitar is the best one he's gotten so far. And it won't be that expensive


define "not expensive": are we talking ballpark of his old sig prices? more? less?


----------



## Hollowway

MastrXploder said:


> Just got off tour with Tosin, can confirm this guitar is the best one he's gotten so far. And it won't be that expensive



You know there is no way we're going to let you drop in here, and leave without more information than that, right? 

Yes, define "expensive." You mean over $2000? (ALL RIGHT EVERYONE, CALM DOWN! CAN WE HAVE SOME DECORUM IN HERE? I am aware that $2000 is not generally considered expensive, but I'm throwing it out there, because above that gets into custom territory, and a whole new ball of wax.)

And what did Tosin mean by "soon"? You think he means before the polar ice caps melt, or should I not hold my breath?


----------



## Blytheryn

Doesn’t Tosin’s new axe have a spot on Carillion headstock?


----------



## Randy

StevenC said:


>



If I'm seeing Javier and Tosin on the right, then Holcomb and Misha on the left... am I to assume that's Jake Bowen's in the middle? Any chance of a JBM Saber for 2018?


----------



## cip 123

Randy said:


> If I'm seeing Javier and Tosin on the right, then Holcomb and Misha on the left... am I to assume that's Jake Bowen's in the middle? Any chance of a JBM Saber for 2018?



Jake got his S7420 touched up by LACS. Next year will be interesting, as well as the Saber he got a new hipshot hardtail RGA Titan.

Who knows which they'll go with.

Pics on his instagram.


----------



## StevenC

Randy said:


> If I'm seeing Javier and Tosin on the right, then Holcomb and Misha on the left... am I to assume that's Jake Bowen's in the middle? Any chance of a JBM Saber for 2018?



For what it's worth, Javier posted this on his Instagram with the caption "signature guitars"


----------



## noise in my mind

Maybe Keith Merrow is staring his own company like Ola, and this Tosin sig is going to be part of it?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Blytheryn said:


> Doesn’t Tosin’s new axe have a spot on Carillion headstock?



Similar headstock but Chris said he didn't build it. I'm 99% sure its CnC because of the bevel on the lower horn(which I'm growing to hate more and more every time I looked at it), so its not from a luther who hand makes guitars.


----------



## technomancer

Lorcan Ward said:


> Similar headstock but Chris said he didn't build it. I'm 99% sure its CnC because of the bevel on the lower horn(which I'm growing to hate more and more every time I looked at it), so its not from a luther who hand makes guitars.



Crap beveling and supposedly not that expensive... wonder if it is Kiesel...


----------



## cip 123

technomancer said:


> Crap beveling and supposedly not that expensive... wonder if it is Kiesel...


 Considering Javier already passed I think it'd be a stretch...However Jeff strikes me as a "I'll make you anything you want" kinda guy, I mean look at that fugly Letchford model...


----------



## MastrXploder

Vyn said:


> Can you confirm the manufacturer?



Can't give that info quite yet!



KnightBrolaire said:


> define "not expensive": are we talking ballpark of his old sig prices? more? less?



Fair amount less than his TAM100 used to cost



Hollowway said:


> You know there is no way we're going to let you drop in here, and leave without more information than that, right?
> 
> Yes, define "expensive." You mean over $2000? (ALL RIGHT EVERYONE, CALM DOWN! CAN WE HAVE SOME DECORUM IN HERE? I am aware that $2000 is not generally considered expensive, but I'm throwing it out there, because above that gets into custom territory, and a whole new ball of wax.)
> 
> And what did Tosin mean by "soon"? You think he means before the polar ice caps melt, or should I not hold my breath?



Expect a lot of info at NAMM. And yes over 2k, but not the ridiculous TAM100 price tag. But there are reasons why, and they are worth it.


----------



## MastrXploder

technomancer said:


> Crap beveling and supposedly not that expensive... wonder if it is Kiesel...



I'm gonna go ahead and let everyone know that it's definitely NOT Kiesel


----------



## cip 123

So when are we starting the poll for who it is, and whats the prize?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

cip 123 said:


> So when are we starting the poll for who it is, and whats the prize?


hopefully it's not ESP, they'd only release the damn thing in matte black


----------



## technomancer

MastrXploder said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and let everyone know that it's definitely NOT Kiesel



Phew


----------



## Durero

Lorcan Ward said:


> Similar headstock but Chris said he didn't build it. I'm 99% sure its CnC because of the bevel on the lower horn(which I'm growing to hate more and more every time I looked at it), so its not from a luther who hand makes guitars.



I've had a really good chance to see and discuss this guitar with Tosin. It's a hand made prototype and _there is no bevel on the lower horn_. I'm sure that better information and pictures will appear at the next NAMM and quell some of this crazy speculation.

It's certainly not my place to reveal who the builder is but it's great to see so much interest in Tosin's design. It's a very beautifully made guitar!


----------



## A-Branger

Blytheryn said:


> Doesn’t Tosin’s new axe have a spot on Carillion headstock?



sup with the slanted pickups on a non-multiscale guitar?



cip 123 said:


> Jake got his S7420 touched up by LACS. Next year will be interesting, as well as the Saber he got a new hipshot hardtail RGA Titan.
> 
> Who knows which they'll go with.
> 
> Pics on his instagram.



yeh all of them got a floating tremolo so they can play Motormouth, and not sure if another song, as it requires the floating bridge. Funny enough hes the only one out of the 3 with a sig guitar that actualyl comes with a floating tremolo, yet he got this non sig guitar in order to use it...... lol

Also a hardtail RGA would be a good move for him, since it doesnt seem he uses the tremolo much, or at all, as far as Im aware (which I can be completely wrong)



cip 123 said:


> So when are we starting the poll for who it is, and whats the prize?



price can be that chinese knockoff copy


----------



## ImBCRichBitch

A-Branger said:


> sup with the slanted pickups on a non-multiscale guitar?




It does appear to have a slight fan, but i could be wrong. If not, its probably for warmer highs and tighter lows.


----------



## StevenC

A-Branger said:


> sup with the slanted pickups on a non-multiscale guitar?



@Lorcan Ward


----------



## Bigfan

A-Branger said:


> sup with the slanted pickups on a non-multiscale guitar?



The guitar in the picture is definitely fanned, although not very drastically.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

A-Branger said:


> sup with the slanted pickups on a non-multiscale guitar?



Its a .75 inch fan(25.5 - 26.25) and the pickups are angled more to further tighten the lower string.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So
Uh
Is Tosin still with Ibanez if he's getting a POSSIBLE non-Ibby sig? I thought they were strict AF with endorsements?


----------



## Zalbu

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So
> Uh
> Is Tosin still with Ibanez if he's getting a POSSIBLE non-Ibby sig? I thought they were strict AF with endorsements?


I can't imagine that any guitar manufacturer would be pleased with an endorser having signature guitars from more than one company.

I would actually lose some respect for Tosin if it turns out that he drops Ibanez with how much he's been waxing on about them letting him to a completely unique guitar shape unless there's a good reason behind it. The dude changes gear more often than he changes underwear but companies still line up to sign him on because he has the abillity to move product.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Zalbu said:


> I can't imagine that any guitar manufacturer would be pleased with an endorser having signature guitars from more than one company.
> 
> I would actually lose some respect for Tosin if it turns out that he drops Ibanez with how much he's been waxing on about them letting him to a completely unique guitar shape unless there's a good reason behind it. The dude changes gear more often than he changes underwear but companies still line up to sign him on because he has the abillity to move product.



There's some exceptions. Kirk Hammett had a sig ESP and Gibson, Alex Lifeson had a sig Gibson and PRS, etc etc.

Buuut I don't think Tosin is on that caliber yet, nor is Ibanez that lenient. Just curious about what's gonna happen here.


----------



## cip 123

Zalbu said:


> I can't imagine that any guitar manufacturer would be pleased with an endorser having signature guitars from more than one company.
> 
> I would actually lose some respect for Tosin if it turns out that he drops Ibanez with how much he's been waxing on about them letting him to a completely unique guitar shape unless there's a good reason behind it. The dude changes gear more often than he changes underwear but companies still line up to sign him on because he has the abillity to move product.



Asmuch as they let him have this new shape I don't believe Ibanez are that free with artists. There's always rumours about artists struggling to get what they want from Ibanez (Though there are with most manufacturers) I can't blame Tosin if he goes with a really progressive brand who are totally open to trying anything.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Randy said:


> If I'm seeing Javier and Tosin on the right, then Holcomb and Misha on the left... am I to assume that's Jake Bowen's in the middle? Any chance of a JBM Saber for 2018?



A jbm 26.5 7 string s. Take all my money


----------



## Lemonbaby

Zalbu said:


> The dude changes gear more often than he changes underwear but companies still line up to sign him on because he has the abillity to move product.


The 8-string market is tiny compared to total guitar sales in the first place. An expensive model like the TAM100 will sell veeery rarely and hang in the majority of stores for ages before any customer even takes it from the wall. The TAM10 will of course achieve a lot better selling figures, but that's still nothing compared to almost any 6-string signature (from any company). Bottom line: no company will make a fortune with Tosin's gear, it's just nice to have top class players like him on the team...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So, anyone good at identifying headstocks? 







Starting to wonder if it's a prototypeIbanez headstock or something.


----------



## sezna

But it has been confirmed it isn't Ibanez by Kieth. So.....either that is rumor or it is some custom builder who didn't wanna put their name on it?

The complete lack of branding is odd


----------



## technomancer

I will now redundantly re-express my hatred of fucking lame-assed top bevels


----------



## stinkoman

That string spacing on his newest one looks like the tightest string spacing I ever seen on an 8.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

stinkoman said:


> That string spacing on his newest one looks like the tightest string spacing I ever seen on an 8.



He specifically asked for a super-tight string spacing.


----------



## cip 123

technomancer said:


> I will now redundantly re-express my hatred of fucking lame-assed top bevels



See I don't mind this one, the design has always had those bevels, and the fancy wood has been added in a later prototype.

Just someway I justify that in my head rather than a certain company coming straight out the gate bevelling the f*ck out of nice tops.



stinkoman said:


> That string spacing on his newest one looks like the tightest string spacing I ever seen on an 8.



I really like tight spacing on 8's makes everything s much easier to control imo.



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So, anyone good at identifying headstocks?
> 
> 
> Starting to wonder if it's a prototypeIbanez headstock or something.



Only thoughts are, it looks kinda like a Ken Lawrence headstock, or if you take the bevel off it looks like a RAN/Caparison headstock. But I don't see Tosin going with any of those. I highly doubt he'd go with any company that doesn't mass produce guitars.


----------



## HeadofaHessian

StevenC said:


>


FWIW i would kill for a JBM100 in An S form, same specs as a JBM100 just an S. MMMMMM


----------



## Mattykoda

In general it feels very skervesen-esque to me but that's just my opinion


----------



## cip 123

Mattykoda said:


> In general it feels very skervesen-esque to me but that's just my opinion



True, but I still have a hard time believing he would give up Ibanez for any company that can't offer a sig deal which pays a bit.

Granted I don't know Tosin or how most deals work, but money is pretty important when you're a musician so I would figure he would wanna go with another company who can offer a Sig deal similar to Ibanez, several models of TAM's which he can benefit from.


----------



## sezna

you guys hate the bevel but ughhhhhhh this guitar is so sexy. i wish i could buy it without immediately looking like a tosin fanboy. that's my problem with sig guitars *looks at his JBM27*


----------



## ImBCRichBitch

As i stated in an earlier post, and more so now, that headstock looks so much like a Ken Lawrence. Conspiracy theory? Maybe. But it may not be too far off


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I don't see it being a Ken Lawrence. The headstock design isn't extreme, plus our boy said it's going to be less than a TAM100. A KL can be double or triple the price of a TAM100.


----------



## Harry

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I don't see it being a Ken Lawrence. The headstock design isn't extreme, plus our boy said it's going to be less than a TAM100. A KL can be double or triple the price of a TAM100.



Welp, that explains why James Hetfield is practically the only person in existence to own a Ken Lawrence


----------



## KnightBrolaire

hmmm not ibanez or schecter, but still makes 8 strings (or is going to start making them)/isn't a small builder... That leaves ESP (impossible since it's not matte black and has a burl top), Jackson (doubtful but who knows), Dean (lmao that would never happen) or some other random company.


----------



## cip 123

KnightBrolaire said:


> hmmm not ibanez or schecter, but still makes 8 strings (or is going to start making them)/isn't a small builder... That leaves ESP (impossible since it's not matte black and has a burl top), Jackson (doubtful but who knows), Dean (lmao that would never happen) or some other random company.



Think the only feasible one there is Jackson since he has probably played Misha's customs and know about their quality, but I just don't see them being this adventurous really


----------



## Spicypickles

Harry said:


> Welp, that explains why James Hetfield is practically the only person in existence to own a Ken Lawrence


Oh, no way.

There was a dude on the old ESP boards that owned 4 of them at one time, and a guy y that had one in hand with one on order constantly. As soon as the new one was finished, he would sell the older one, and order a new one.


----------



## Mattykoda

cip 123 said:


> Think the only feasible one there is Jackson since he has probably played Misha's customs and know about their quality, but I just don't see them being this adventurous really



Yeah that was my next guess but it seems like Jackson would really be going wild at that point. My other guess would be Fast Guitars since they do some ergo shapes and seem adventurous enough to try it. I guess time will tell.


----------



## Vyn

KnightBrolaire said:


> hmmm not ibanez or schecter, but still makes 8 strings (or is going to start making them)/isn't a small builder... That leaves ESP (impossible since it's not matte black and has a burl top), Jackson (doubtful but who knows), Dean (lmao that would never happen) or some other random company.



ESP - not a black super strat (although given what comes out of their custom shop who knows)

EDIT: Remember they do make stuff like this:




Jackson - headstock is completely different to anything they have (Jackson aren't adverse to bizarre body shapes though
Dean - Doesn't have a dime/inline headstock or horrid graphics.


----------



## sezna

ESP seems most likely from this kind of analysis, but I didn't know they had broken into this sort of custom guitar fancy AAAAAA wood style market. Maybe Javier converted him? Japanese brands to tend to be more willing to make novel stuff.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Mattykoda said:


> Yeah that was my next guess but it seems like Jackson would really be going wild at that point. My other guess would be Fast Guitars since they do some ergo shapes and seem adventurous enough to try it. I guess time will tell.


Fast is too small of a builder to support Tosin imo.


----------



## marcwormjim

sezna said:


> Japanese brands to tend to be more willing to make novel stuff.



Ibanez, for example.


----------



## diagrammatiks

as pointed out in this thread already...ibanez and a lot of the japanese brands used to be all about making tons of wacky crazy stuff.


----------



## marcwormjim

One of my favorite things to do at NAMM is see what ESP has chained at the top of the wall.


----------



## cip 123

Mattykoda said:


> Yeah that was my next guess but it seems like Jackson would really be going wild at that point. My other guess would be Fast Guitars since they do some ergo shapes and seem adventurous enough to try it. I guess time will tell.





KnightBrolaire said:


> Fast is too small of a builder to support Tosin imo.



This. It's nice to throw out companies like fast and Skerv but there is no way in hell Tosin would be giving up a deal with Ibanez for them. He gets paid with his sig deals for his TAM's, he'll only go for a company that can mass produce ala Schecter, Ibanez, ESP.

For all we know it could well be Schecter, if they're not allowed to say just now, then people like Keith might just say "Yea it's not"


----------



## Malkav

cip 123 said:


> For all we know it could well be Schecter, if they're not allowed to say just now, then people like Keith might just say "Yea it's not"



I really think this is most likely the case, it just doesn't look like something any other brand could produce or would produce in the price range that's being hinted at.


----------



## A-Branger

maybe its a new company something like Solar?....

also I dont think hes doing this for the money, granted its an extra income, but not one to huge. How many of TAM100 you think were actually sold?, apart from the couple in this forum?. I know theres a bigger number than we think, but prob not even close to a RG premium model would be. And the higher price wont balance it out either.

Artist not only they get a cut from it of course, but they also get either a free guitar or a heavily discounted one, plus service, ect. I think its not about the money but about the relationship between the brand and the artist what he might like better. Maybe hes just got along better with other builder rather than with Ibanez. Something as simple as a builder being exited, happy and open to his ideas, and sharing some though would play far better than a big brand saying "yeh" to Tosin. A more direct friendlier approach would play better than a more formal one. Or who knows really, no idea how those companies work behind doors.

It also plays a company willing to give him what he wants rather than putting limitations. Something like Head, he wanted evertune/fishmans, maybe Ibanez said "no". He also wanted to start fresh with something fully different tho. So maybe Tosin wanted something Ibanez said "no" to him??, maybe not on the crazy shape/specs since they build him 3 prototypes, but maybe in the "if you want that finish we have to sell it in $$$$$ like your TAM100, if you want affordable guitar you can pick a black one..."


----------



## lewis

A-Branger said:


> maybe its a new company something like Solar?....
> 
> also I dont think hes doing this for the money, granted its an extra income, but not one to huge. How many of TAM100 you think were actually sold?, apart from the couple in this forum?. I know theres a bigger number than we think, but prob not even close to a RG premium model would be. And the higher price wont balance it out either.
> 
> Artist not only they get a cut from it of course, but they also get either a free guitar or a heavily discounted one, plus service, ect. I think its not about the money but about the relationship between the brand and the artist what he might like better. Maybe hes just got along better with other builder rather than with Ibanez. Something as simple as a builder being exited, happy and open to his ideas, and sharing some though would play far better than a big brand saying "yeh" to Tosin. A more direct friendlier approach would play better than a more formal one. Or who knows really, no idea how those companies work behind doors.
> 
> It also plays a company willing to give him what he wants rather than putting limitations. Something like Head, he wanted evertune/fishmans, maybe Ibanez said "no". He also wanted to start fresh with something fully different tho. So maybe Tosin wanted something Ibanez said "no" to him??, maybe not on the crazy shape/specs since they build him 3 prototypes, but maybe in the "if you want that finish we have to sell it in $$$$$ like your TAM100, if you want affordable guitar you can pick a black one..."



The TAM's were the best looking 8 string Ibanez ever made imo!.

I would have loved one new but they were pricey! Still see a few on the used market every now and again though.


----------



## Ikke

sezna said:


> ESP seems most likely from this kind of analysis, but I didn't know they had broken into this sort of custom guitar fancy AAAAAA wood style market. Maybe Javier converted him? Japanese brands to tend to be more willing to make novel stuff.



Well, I wouldn't say they aren't in the market for it, but every year they show what could be done (*cough* for the right price *cough*). That being said if this new prototype is made by ESP, I would think only his prototype would look that flamboyant. Production guitar would most likely be black. And not even saying that to be snarky. Just because it would make most sense to make it black.


----------



## Ikke

Also, per artist interviews, whether it's Hetfield, Carpenter, Kelliher, or the guy with the pizza & taco guitars, ESP is apparently great to deal with. And I would think if ESP is willing to make a pizza/taco guitar, they'd be more than willing to match Tosin's Ibanez prototype without hesitation. Their artist roster is already pretty killer (especially if you include non-US artists). And, Tosin would only be another great addition for them, especially to gain more attention/influence in prog guitarist realm.

My only hangup with this being an ESP is that it doesn't say ESP on the front of the headstock. That being said, there's precedent of ESP only putting their logo on the back, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.


----------



## Blytheryn

Ikke said:


> Also, per artist interviews, whether it's Hetfield, Carpenter, Kelliher, or the guy with the pizza & taco guitars, ESP is apparently great to deal with. And I would think if ESP is willing to make a pizza/taco guitar, they'd be more than willing to match Tosin's Ibanez prototype without hesitation. Their artist roster is already pretty killer (especially if you include non-US artists). And, Tosin would only be another great addition for them, especially to gain more attention/influence in prog guitarist realm.
> 
> My only hangup with this being an ESP is that it doesn't say ESP on the front of the headstock. That being said, there's precedent of ESP only putting their logo on the back, so it's not out of the realm of possibility.



Or to not have it on it at all. Nergal's Hex 6 has a blank headstock.






Or maybe he just broke it and had it replaced?


----------



## Ikke

Blytheryn said:


> Or to not have it on it at all. Nergal's Hex 6 has a blank headstock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe he just broke it and had it replaced?



That’s what I was said. The ESP logo is not on the front of the headstock. It’s on the back only.


----------



## cip 123

Blytheryn said:


> Or to not have it on it at all. Nergal's Hex 6 has a blank headstock.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or maybe he just broke it and had it replaced?




Umm I think you may have just found the headstock most similar to Tosins...That looks like where Tosins could've started.

Also He has plenty of time to play ESP production and custom shop considering Javier has both.


----------



## Mathemagician

Yeah Ken Lawrence’s are $7500 explorers (as of like 8 years ago). Not nasa engine parts.

Just too small a shop for production models (pricing aside).


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Mathemagician said:


> Yeah Ken Lawrence’s are $7500 explorers (as of like 8 years ago). Not nasa engine parts.
> 
> Just too small a shop for production models (pricing aside).


I've seen some going for 10k like the blue shark explorer


----------



## Malkav

Guys you're all wrong, it can't be an ESP, if it were there'd be a big rectangle on the twelfth fret that would say something like "TA-11045" or "Suk it Ibanez" 

jk


----------



## Mathemagician

They’ve actually seemed to have done away with the block at the 12th this year. 

I’d like the block is they just always said “ESP” on the inlay.


----------



## lewis

12th fret block inlay always looks terrible.


----------



## stinkoman

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> He specifically asked for a super-tight string spacing.



If it goes in to production, I hope they keep that super tight spacing. I'm probably in the minority with that though.


----------



## Hollowway

noise in my mind said:


> Maybe Keith Merrow is staring his own company like Ola, and this Tosin sig is going to be part of it?


That would be straight up awesome.


----------



## cip 123

Highly doubt Keith is starting his own company considering he's about to release several new sigs with Schecter, and I hardly think he would go in to direct competition with his friend, they would have more to gain going in partnership.


----------



## downburst82

The headstock doesn't look to far off one that Ormsby uses but I would be surprised if thats the builder.







*on second look they aren't that close really, although I believe Omsby has done one off Ken Lawrence headstocks...still... Ignore me.


----------



## downburst82

*double post


----------



## Mathemagician

lewis said:


> 12th fret block inlay always looks terrible.



*napoleon dynamite voice*

Your mom always looks terrible. 

*end voice*


----------



## elnyrb10

I mean its not NOT very similar to an agile................


----------



## StevenC

Blackmachine F8s have very tight string spacing.


----------



## A-Branger

I dont think its an ESP/LTD, I know they build random weird stuff for their Japanese artist and might change some stuff for the USA ones. But I dont think they would build a whole new shape and headstock as a sig

My money its on Jackson. It makes the best sense



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So, anyone good at identifying headstocks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to wonder if it's a prototypeIbanez headstock or something.









its the same headstock, just an add-on at the tip for the bevel thing. I would say its a jackson


----------



## Hollowway

elnyrb10 said:


> I mean its not NOT very similar to an agile................



Omg can you imagine? I would be so stoked. Rondo is one of my favorite guitar companies, hands down, and that would be incredible. But, as has been pointed out, it’s north of $2000, so it’s not likely.

And I’d be shocked if it was a Jackson. It just bears zero likeness to anything in Jackson’s DNA. It would be cool if they went this far off the reservation, though.


----------



## Lemonbaby

Mathemagician said:


> *napoleon dynamite voice*
> 
> Your mom always looks terrible.
> 
> *end voice*


 "BOW TO YOUR SENSEI!"


----------



## Dcm81

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So, anyone good at identifying headstocks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to wonder if it's a prototypeIbanez headstock or something.



I'm starting to thing that it's not really a bevel on the top of the headstock - instead, it's just that wide MOP looking stripe/"binding" that's also going on on the body and giving the lower horn that bevelled look......


----------



## A-Branger

Dcm81 said:


> I'm starting to thing that it's not really a bevel on the top of the headstock - instead, it's just that wide MOP looking stripe/"binding" that's also going on on the body and giving the lower horn that bevelled look......



yeh nah. That MOP looking thing its the wood of the top, which is a maple burl of some sort or something similar. The reason why the "binding" part of it looks soo wide is because the bevel its cut on an angle, then they dcided to not stain that part. Same problem with Kiesel's famous bevel. Its in such a hard angle that when they decided to do a nice pretty wood un-masked binding (like Bulb's Jackson) they end up with a massive stripe. The harder the angle of the beel, the bigger the "binding" becomes

But the headstock does have a small bevel at the top jsut to go with the theme of the body. And I still think this is a Jackson. That headstock is 98% same as the one of Bulbs Ht7

also the lower horn does have that small bevel too, its small but its there, you clearly see it in this pic, and it always been there. See his previous prototypes where the gloss black was the top and the sati black was the bevels, you can see they left that small horn in satin too


----------



## Mathemagician

What Jackson comes in that nice blue color that was linked?


----------



## lewis

Mathemagician said:


> What Jackson comes in that nice blue color that was linked?


at a guess I think its the Misha Mansoor signature dude.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So, anyone good at identifying headstocks?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting to wonder if it's a prototypeIbanez headstock or something.


The string angles and tuner positions look like they started with an 8 string Iceman or Thordendal model headstock and modified the tip.


----------



## Bdtunn

May be old news but on ibanez rules it has the tam100 model as being discontinued


----------



## odibrom

Tosin is still listed on Ibanez sites and those TAM models are discontinued for quite some time already.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Tosin almost never uses the TAM anymore so I'm not surprised.


----------



## sezna

ElysianGuitars said:


> The string angles and tuner positions look like they started with an 8 string Iceman or Thordendal model headstock and modified the tip.


mmmm that's a bit of a stretch i think. they don't look very similar.


----------



## cip 123

sezna said:


> mmmm that's a bit of a stretch i think. they don't look very similar.


They look super similar, imagine the ibanez tip and it's the same headstock. They both have the same to corner points before the tuners start.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Given they went with such an extreme body shape, I wouldn't be surprised if Tosin also wanted an even more extreme headstock to go with it. It does have some features of an Ibanez headstock, just with some additions.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

So company that has no issue with bizzare shapes, treats artist well, likely want's a face for the 8 string market EBMM??

Or long shot, Peavey is going all in on djent amp for Misha and sig guitar for Tosin.


----------



## sezna

Dineley said:


> So company that has no issue with bizzare shapes, treats artist well, likely want's a face for the 8 string market EBMM??
> 
> Or long shot, Peavey is going all in on djent amp for Misha and sig guitar for Tosin.


i want to live in this reality


----------



## ElysianGuitars

sezna said:


> mmmm that's a bit of a stretch i think. they don't look very similar.


The tuners are in the exact same location on each, the curves right up from the nut are identical, the curve on the treble side is identical, it looks like they used the same hole and curves template to start and just modified the tip. I'm about 99% certain that guitar is still an Ibanez.


----------



## Malkav

Don't think it's Jackson, I work for the distributors of FMIC in South Africa and we're starting to get e-mailers about various new releases and stuff for next year, which I can't discuss as they are confidential, and though it's possible their may still be something coming so far nothing has been mentioned, and this would be pretty big news


----------



## cip 123

It's all a hoax, it's still an Ibanez


----------



## Pablo

Hmmm... the first Djenty Charvel? Fender needs a bit of modernity in their portfolio and a Tosin signature would be a great place to start.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Pablo said:


> Hmmm... the first Djenty Charvel? Fender needs a bit of modernity in their portfolio and a Tosin signature would be a great place to start.



fender owns jackson? or is a bunch of periphery stuff and 2 sets of multi scales not modern enough in 2018.


----------



## ImBCRichBitch

diagrammatiks said:


> fender owns jackson? or is a bunch of periphery stuff and 2 sets of multi scales not modern enough in 2018.


They own jackson, charvel, evh, gretsch.... basically all older styled stuff. Jackson being the most modern. I think they would really benefit from tosin on the roster though


----------



## Pablo

diagrammatiks said:


> fender owns jackson? or is a bunch of periphery stuff and 2 sets of multi scales not modern enough in 2018.


When the hottest ticket in town is a Strandberg, a modded soloist really isn’t all that cutting edge...


----------



## Zalbu

Wouldn't Ola be down with giving him a signature Strandberg? Seems like the easiest road to take since his Ibby prototype is just Ibanez take on the Strandberg shape.


----------



## A-Branger

Zalbu said:


> Wouldn't Ola be down with giving him a signature Strandberg? Seems like the easiest road to take since his Ibby prototype is just Ibanez take on the Strandberg shape.


but then it wont makew sense to make it headless?, specially since Tosin have use them in the past?


----------



## cip 123

A-Branger said:


> but then it wont makew sense to make it headless?, specially since Tosin have use them in the past?


Depends entirely on what they agreed on, Ola has always been about Ergonomics. It may have a head but everything else about it may be entirely ergonomic.

My bets are ESP if it's an actual change, though it could all just be a big ruse and it's still an Ibby


----------



## sezna

lol, we have named almost every brand.


----------



## gunshow86de

sezna said:


> lol, we have named almost every brand.



You heard it here first folks...................


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

sezna said:


> lol, we have named almost every brand.



Needs more Siggery, Vik, BRJ, and S7G.

And fore safe measure, DeVries/Vampiire.


----------



## ImBCRichBitch

Guys..... its actually a Gibson


----------



## A-Branger

we should make a poll


----------



## curlyvice

Definitely a Danelectro. You can tell because of the way that it is and how it be.


----------



## marcwormjim

Are we certain it is not a _Krappy_?


----------



## Paul McAleer

It's a Kramer


----------



## Dcm81

Can't imagine it being an Ibby since Keith def said it wasn't - and I just can't see him spreading false rumors for shits and giggles..........unless of course he's found his inner troll......that would actually be rather amusing!


----------



## cip 123

Dcm81 said:


> Can't imagine it being an Ibby since Keith def said it wasn't - and I just can't see him spreading false rumors for shits and giggles..........unless of course he's found his inner troll......that would actually be rather amusing!



Keith just likes a good meme


----------



## Mike

That spacing does seem ridiculously tight. Maybe he's trying to make an 8 that's capable of working with 7 string pickups since 8 string pickups suck.


----------



## cip 123

Mike said:


> That spacing does seem ridiculously tight. Maybe he's trying to make an 8 that's capable of working with 7 string pickups since 8 string pickups suck.


I always found it was easier to mute with the right hand with tighter spacing.


----------



## downburst82

I actually think maybe the new one is just a pretty one off prototype built by ?? with Ibanez's blessing. Im pretty sure he will stay with Ibanez and release it in its signature form through them, these random rumours and speculation are kind of fun though.


----------



## sezna

i still think it is most likely still ibby lol


----------



## jwade

Maybe it's a Sugi built one-off outside of the official Ibanez side of things?


----------



## StevenC

jwade said:


> Maybe it's a Sugi built one-off outside of the official Ibanez side of things?


Man, if Tosin got a Sugi and we all had to settle for Fugigen I'd be pissed. At least with the M8M everybody gets the best guitars Meshuggah have. Especially after the inconsistent mess that TAM100 production was.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/
hmmm tosin might be setting up his own guitar company


----------



## sezna

!!!


KnightBrolaire said:


> https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/
> hmmm tosin might be setting up his own guitar company


!!!!!!!!

WHAT
THE LEAST EXPECTED OPTION
THE UNMENTIONED


----------



## ElysianGuitars

I'm about 100% sure I was wrong now  never expected that.

I notice the link says "USA," maybe there's a something to that.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

sezna said:


> !!!
> 
> !!!!!!!!
> 
> WHAT
> THE LEAST EXPECTED OPTION
> THE UNMENTIONED


DAT PIVOT THO
would be cool if these were USA made.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Signature guitars are old-school.

Everyone gets their own company now.


----------



## xCaptainx

Well, there's the headstock shape. I wonder who is making them? 

Interesting.


----------



## cip 123

KnightBrolaire said:


> https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/
> hmmm tosin might be setting up his own guitar company


It does showcase a wenge neck which is his preferred choice, it does look like a wide neck 8 string wide....


----------



## StevenC

It's a set neck and everything!


----------



## Vyn

Well then. Huh. Kinda speechless. Wonder if he's been talking to Ola?


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

Not at all the direction I thought this would turn - I wonder what prompted him to do so. Messy development with Ibanez on the new model?


----------



## StevenC

It's a long shot, but if this is made by Schecter I will buy one.


----------



## cip 123

StevenC said:


> It's a long shot, but if this is made by Schecter I will buy one.


Well that's perhaps why Keith specifically commented, to make the company distinction. It's not a schecter. Don't meant it ain't built by them.


----------



## MemphisHawk

is it Ola Strandbergs fingers and wedding ring in the short clip?


----------



## A-Branger

nice plot twist


----------



## cip 123

This thread must be directed by M Night Shyamalan


----------



## WafWaffle

Strandberg Signature ! Ready to bet 100 bucks


----------



## Anquished

Wow, I totally didn't see that coming..


----------



## Dcm81

......so he owns the rights to the new shape?? Kinda thought Ibby would of copyrighted, trademarked, whatever in the earliest stages......


----------



## Veldar

No way! Does Tosin have a bug enough brand to even pull that off?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

No way!


----------



## ThomasUV777

Both Abasiguitarsusa.com and schecterguitars.com are registered via http://perfectprivacy.com
Something that Ibanez, jackson etc. are not.

Interesting.


----------



## A-Branger

isnt Zack Wylde doing his thing trough Schecter? I know they are build in WMI Korea, so no idea of the why "Schecter" part of it....(unless they handle everything eccept the wonky designs) 

if so wouldnt make sense hes doing the same too? like an easy way into the business for him, less worry/work, and a side income to Schecter as a big umbrella brand.??


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Tosin and another builder came up with the design so Ibanez doesn't own it. Quite brave to leave Ibanez to pursue your own guitar business with an exotic shaped 8 string. 



StevenC said:


> It's a set neck and everything!









Hand carved. These ain't going to be cheap thats for sure!!


----------



## cwhitey2




----------



## StevenC

WafWaffle said:


> Strandberg Signature ! Ready to bet 100 bucks


...
I'll take that bet.


----------



## bostjan

KnightBrolaire said:


> https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/
> hmmm tosin might be setting up his own guitar company


Well, might be the quickest way to make this happen, it seems. 

I have to say that I had not expected this, but looking back it all adds up.


----------



## cip 123

Lorcan Ward said:


> Hand carved. These ain't going to be cheap thats for sure!!



Given the price that has been sort of indicated here I doubt they will be handcarved. It could be pics of the proto, hand carving to get it perfect before getting it ready for a computer. 

Pics like that are an easy hype builder.


----------



## diagrammatiks

ibanez has only been failing to get this thing in production for like 2 years now right


----------



## Zalbu

diagrammatiks said:


> ibanez has only been failing to get this thing in production for like 2 years now right


Why would they put it into production when Tosin keeps changing stuff and gets new prototypes?

I wonder if Ibanez are going to do something with the shape, would be cool to see them make an ergo guitar as a 7 or 6 string. Tosin said back in the summer that Ibanez was getting ready to release it, but he probably pulled the plug on them in the last minute, just like he did with Seymour Duncan.


----------



## sezna

Zalbu said:


> Why would they put it into production when Tosin keeps changing stuff and gets new prototypes?
> 
> I wonder if Ibanez are going to do something with the shape, would be cool to see them make an ergo guitar as a 7 or 6 string. Tosin said back in the summer that Ibanez was getting ready to release it, but he probably pulled the plug on them in the last minute, just like he did with Seymour Duncan.



I was so excited for the tosin sig that I e-mailed Ibanez this past summer (maybe June?) asking for a release date. They said they didn’t have an exact date but it’d be soon. And then the Chinese clones started, suggesting perhaps they had sent their specs to some asian factories for production. Hm...I think they were about to release it.


----------



## A-Branger

cip 123 said:


> Given the price that has been sort of indicated here I doubt they will be handcarved. It could be pics of the proto, hand carving to get it perfect before getting it ready for a computer.
> 
> Pics like that are an easy hype builder.



yup, there are just stock photos of the custom (or a second) build. Final production models would have to be cnc to keep the price down and speed up process



Zalbu said:


> Why would they put it into production when Tosin keeps changing stuff and gets new prototypes?
> 
> I wonder if Ibanez are going to do something with the shape, would be cool to see them make an ergo guitar as a 7 or 6 string. Tosin said back in the summer that Ibanez was getting ready to release it, but he probably pulled the plug on them in the last minute, just like he did with Seymour Duncan.



yeh it takes a while to agree on specs on a new shape/model.

and I doubt Ibanez is going to release that shape, since it was associated with Tosin, and he kinda owns it now. Plus this is soo far away from Ibanez that I doubt they would do it (or something similar) eitherway. If they want to jump into the hype of headless/ergo, I bet they would do something based on their RG or RGA


----------



## StevenC

A-Branger said:


> yup, there are just stock photos of the custom (or a second) build. Final production models would have to be cnc to keep the price down and speed up process



You ever played a guitar that's just made on a CNC without people doing the stuff in these pictures?


----------



## cip 123

StevenC said:


> You ever played a guitar that's just made on a CNC without people doing the stuff in these pictures?



They're carving and filing in the pictures, generally CNC gets really close to final carve as in millionths of a cm. What they would do by hand is sand. Not the same thing. You can't just pull it out a CNC and play it I agree, but unless something goes wrong in production I highly doubt they're hand carving necks, or doing any major filing aside from fret ends and perhaps board edges.

Caparison pride themselves on hand carved necks and they're 3K plus.


----------



## downburst82

https://www.facebook.com/tosin.abasi/posts/10155168730289013

Official post on his facebook about it.



> As some of you may have suspected, I'm happy to announce that I'm extremely close to making my signature guitar available to everyone. Hit the link to get on the newsletter www.abasiguitarsusa.com #abasiguitars2018


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

The hot thing to do these days is slap your name on some korean junk. Par for the course.


----------



## cip 123

7 Strings of Hate said:


> The hot thing to do these days is slap your name on some korean junk. Par for the course.


His name was already on indo Ibanez Junk so...


----------



## Mathemagician

“Some Korean Junk”

Name of her sex tape. 

But seriously, where else can an artist/new business owner get products out at the quality/price point?


----------



## A-Branger

cip 123 said it right

cnc leaves the boddy pretty much done. They might need to tool the joint between neck and body to make it perfectly smooth, or not... donno hows the process for a set neck and CNCs.

but those pics are probably when they build his current prototype or another build. looks as a good show pic, but not every gutiar would be fully hand carved. They wont be able to meet $ and time demands

they might do the neck/body joint by hand. but the video on their website were hes fully handcarved the neck thats jsut for show


----------



## cip 123

Mathemagician said:


> “Some Korean Junk”
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously, where else can an artist/new business owner get products out at the quality/price point?



I was just poking fun, honestly I don't understand 7 strings of hate's point. Like it or not the level that certain Korean factories (WMI) put out is almost if not already on par with domestic manufacturing. For example look at Schecter's 2018 line, loads of features, quality woods, loads of models with Fishman Fluence (big point for me) proper setups by Schecter USA. (Just using Schecter as an example as they're the only ones to release their 2018 models afaik)


----------



## KnightBrolaire

7 Strings of Hate said:


> The hot thing to do these days is slap your name on some Indonesian junk. Par for the course.


FTFY


----------



## A-Branger

Korea WMI (or any other factory for that matter really), are a "what do you want?" factory, they arent a "this is our stuff". Meaning its up to the brand to not only provide all the digital plans of the guitars, but also in how to build it, what process, what steps, waht materials, factory have a whole range of cheap/expensive stuff to choose from, yet you can still ship your own parts for them to use. How to paint it/stain it, how to QC it, what to do and not to do, ect. The factory olnly has bunch of machines that makes build process quick, and a bunch of people with experience to make them. You can tell them "make me a guitar like this" and leave everything up to them, or you can tell them exactly what/how to do it.

you can go with the "here are some of the colors we use/do"..... of you can go with "please use color mix #923 with two parts of #789, starting with a base of white and finish it up with a top layer of this special mix of pearl that Im sending you in the mail right now".... for example

you might order them to make you a 100$ piece of firewood in a day, or tell them to build a 3000$ guitar.

I can tell you to make me a pizza, that doesnt mean you are going to use the same ingredients and in the same way as I would do. I could supply you with the food ingredients, I could give you a overall recipe, or I could give you a detailed step by step guide on how to cook MY pizza


----------



## Hollowway

A-Branger said:


> Korea WMI (or any other factory for that matter really), are a "what do you want?" factory, they arent a "this is our stuff". Meaning its up to the brand to not only provide all the digital plans of the guitars, but also in how to build it, what process, what steps, waht materials, factory have a whole range of cheap/expensive stuff to choose from, yet you can still ship your own parts for them to use. How to paint it/stain it, how to QC it, what to do and not to do, ect. The factory olnly has bunch of machines that makes build process quick, and a bunch of people with experience to make them. You can tell them "make me a guitar like this" and leave everything up to them, or you can tell them exactly what/how to do it.
> 
> you can go with the "here are some of the colors we use/do"..... of you can go with "please use color mix #923 with two parts of #789, starting with a base of white and finish it up with a top layer of this special mix of pearl that Im sending you in the mail right now".... for example
> 
> you might order them to make you a 100$ piece of firewood in a day, or tell them to build a 3000$ guitar.
> 
> I can tell you to make me a pizza, that doesnt mean you are going to use the same ingredients and in the same way as I would do. I could supply you with the food ingredients, I could give you a overall recipe, or I could give you a detailed step by step guide on how to cook MY pizza



Are you sure about this, or just figuring it to be the case? I was under the impression that they dictated a lot more of what they would and would not do, based on their operations and work flow.


----------



## odibrom

... and Tosin is still listed on Ibanez sites as the 1st artist of the signatures... huuumm this ain't over until the fat lady sings, here being Ibanez the fat lady, obviously...


----------



## Hollowway

cip 123 said:


> They're carving and filing in the pictures, generally CNC gets really close to final carve as in millionths of a cm. What they would do by hand is sand. Not the same thing. You can't just pull it out a CNC and play it I agree, but unless something goes wrong in production I highly doubt they're hand carving necks, or doing any major filing aside from fret ends and perhaps board edges.
> 
> Caparison pride themselves on hand carved necks and they're 3K plus.



Maybe I’m being pedantic, but CNCs get nowhere near millionths of a cm. They do get close, but there is still a decent amount of sanding to get it into a usable finish. That being said, I’d take a CNC over hand made any day. The accuracy is crazy good.


----------



## A-Branger

Hollowway said:


> Are you sure about this, or just figuring it to be the case? I was under the impression that they dictated a lot more of what they would and would not do, based on their operations and work flow.



not 100% sure of course, Im jsut going on what I see from other brands and what I see from the Ormsby group. Stuff like fine tweaking the stain samples, asking for a specific color, sending a bottle of chamelon particles fro a run. Picking up the supplier for woods, asking them to use brands for hardware, asking them to build the pickups under their design, teling them how to cut the nuts the way they want, ect.... little stuff like that, which Im sure every brand does too, Im just seeing the "behind the scenes" on one of them. If you look you can find the same stuff for Chapman

and jsut the general way each brand does their stuff. If not every single guitar would have the same neck pocket for example.

see the beutiful finishes the Axe Palace limited runs do with the LTDs and PRSs, vs the standard range

of course they might have some limitations, but you get to pick a lot of the stuff that goes in too. At the end of the day a brand has to draw a line somewhere in specs/value/parts/quality in order to get a guitar under the $ amount they want. You want more, you pay more. So I would say when a guitar is "bad" is because a brand allow it and asked it in a certain way. Theres also a limit on how much they can do too, reason why some places could be better than others. Or simple cheaper than others, reason why a brand would move production to another place, so they can hit their $ target and still keep X specs

I dont care where this Tosin guitar is made, it could be made in China as far as I know. What do I care if taht Tosin picks the right quality/value levels. IT would never be a "custom" guitar in feels, we all know that, and if you are expecting that, then get yourself a custom (speaking generally here, not at you  ) so this hopefully would be a great quality/valued guitar. One more that would offer better stuff than the "big brands" currently do


----------



## Albake21

odibrom said:


> ... and Tosin is still listed on Ibanez sites as the 1st artist of the signatures... huuumm this ain't over until the fat lady sings, here being Ibanez the fat lady, obviously...


Hmmm... Yeah I'm really curious to know what's going to happen. I'm guessing this would mean he's not an Ibanez player anymore. Honestly am I the only one who sees this as a shitty move? He used the Ibanez LA custom shop to make him this signature for production under the Ibanez brand. Instead he took it and is making clones himself


----------



## technomancer

Albake21 said:


> Hmmm... Yeah I'm really curious to know what's going to happen. I'm guessing this would mean he's not an Ibanez player anymore. Honestly am I the only one who sees this as a shitty move? He used the Ibanez LA custom shop to make him this signature for production under the Ibanez brand. Instead he took it and is making clones himself



Endorsements are a business decision, period. I would guess either Ibanez chose not to do a production model or they couldn't agree to terms on it. Nothing shitty about it


----------



## chipchappy

So is this the next thing? Are big name musicians going to have less endorsements and begin building and branding the guitars themselves? I suppose this dates all the way back to Brian May making his own guitars... more recently Zakk and obviously now Ola and Tosin. I think it'd be interesting to see less of the 'artist interpretations of brand-name guitars' and more the complete vision of an artist from a design and feature perspective. 


Not to derail the thread, but the _real _question is, not if - but WHEN - will @bulb start making his own guitars?


----------



## Hollowway

A-Branger said:


> not 100% sure of course, Im jsut going on what I see from other brands and what I see from the Ormsby group. Stuff like fine tweaking the stain samples, asking for a specific color, sending a bottle of chamelon particles fro a run. Picking up the supplier for woods, asking them to use brands for hardware, asking them to build the pickups under their design, teling them how to cut the nuts the way they want, ect.... little stuff like that, which Im sure every brand does too, Im just seeing the "behind the scenes" on one of them. If you look you can find the same stuff for Chapman
> 
> and jsut the general way each brand does their stuff. If not every single guitar would have the same neck pocket for example.
> 
> see the beutiful finishes the Axe Palace limited runs do with the LTDs and PRSs, vs the standard range
> 
> of course they might have some limitations, but you get to pick a lot of the stuff that goes in too. At the end of the day a brand has to draw a line somewhere in specs/value/parts/quality in order to get a guitar under the $ amount they want. You want more, you pay more. So I would say when a guitar is "bad" is because a brand allow it and asked it in a certain way. Theres also a limit on how much they can do too, reason why some places could be better than others. Or simple cheaper than others, reason why a brand would move production to another place, so they can hit their $ target and still keep X specs
> 
> I dont care where this Tosin guitar is made, it could be made in China as far as I know. What do I care if taht Tosin picks the right quality/value levels. IT would never be a "custom" guitar in feels, we all know that, and if you are expecting that, then get yourself a custom (speaking generally here, not at you  ) so this hopefully would be a great quality/valued guitar. One more that would offer better stuff than the "big brands" currently do



Yeah, I agree. I'm less concerned with where a guitar is made, and more concerned about the end result. Iphones are made in China, after all, and have incredibly good build quality and quality. Culturally, China is not known for attention to detail and high quality. Japan is. So, generally, if someone tells me a product is made in China, I'm going to need a LOT more info before I assume it's high quality.

All this being said, I am looking forward to these Tosin build, and would like to get one (provided the cost isn't too north of $2000). BUT, if the string spacing is at all tight, it's a deal breaker for me. That is the one spec I just cannot work around.


----------



## sezna

chipchappy said:


> So is this the next thing? Are big name musicians going to have less endorsements and begin building and branding the guitars themselves? I suppose this dates all the way back to Brian May making his own guitars... more recently Zakk and obviously now Ola and Tosin. I think it'd be interesting to see less of the 'artist interpretations of brand-name guitars' and more the complete vision of an artist from a design and feature perspective.
> 
> 
> Not to derail the thread, but the _real _question is, not if - but WHEN - will @bulb start making his own guitars?



For a good long time, starting a company is not a profitable venture. I presume, as Periphery is a rather busy touring band, it is more advantageous for him to be getting endorsement checks rather than writing them.


----------



## A-Branger

chipchappy said:


> Not to derail the thread, but the _real _question is, not if - but WHEN - will @bulb start making his own guitars?


well he did started his own pedal company sooo.....

also he might be pretty happy with Jackson, he did in a way get his "own design" not simply a production model with a different finish. 

At the end its also a personal relationship with the brand too


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

cip 123 said:


> I was just poking fun, honestly I don't understand 7 strings of hate's point. )


What’s not to understand? IMO, you send plans to an indo or Korean factory when you want a product for a business. If you really care about making quality guitars, you don’t send that stuff overseas like that’s. You get a great bang for your buck, but folks don’t send guitars overseas like that and use high quality materials typically. If they did, why bother ? If the market your going for wants better materials, you might as well go the full Monty and build it in America, England, Australia etc...

Iv also seen many folks around here get notoriety only to, quite frankly, exploit(purposefully or not) their fans with fly by night gear companies and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Ola is the only guy I trust in this area to actually deliver a good product. He’s personally inspecting the guitars getting sent out. But even with that, the over seas production turns me off.


----------



## A-Branger

put it in this way, to make the guitar that you want it cost (as a broad example I have no exact figure) lets say 5000$ in the USA, 2000$ in Korea, 1000$ in Indo/China

thats why companies make their stuff overseas. Also because those factories can mass produce stuff because they are built for that, they might have 5 CNC machines for bodies, 2 for fretboards inlays and small stuff, and another for necks who knows. A normal builder might only have a small CNC and a small staff so they cant move high volume numbers.


----------



## marcwormjim

chipchappy said:


> Not to derail the thread, but the _real _question is, not if - but WHEN - will bulb start making his own guitars?



Seems like a bigger hassle than gearwhorin’.


----------



## couverdure

A-Branger said:


> well he did started his own pedal company sooo.....
> 
> also he might be pretty happy with Jackson, he did in a way get his "own design" not simply a production model with a different finish.
> 
> At the end its also a personal relationship with the brand too


He didn't really "start" his own pedal company, he just collaborated with Dunlop to develop a planned series of effects pedals that suit his needs. The Precision Drive doesn't even have his name all over it.


----------



## A-Branger

couverdure said:


> He didn't really "start" his own pedal company, he just collaborated with Dunlop to develop a planned series of effects pedals that suit his needs. The Precision Drive doesn't even have his name all over it.



you dont need to have your name on it in order to own the company. He could have call it "Bulb Pedals", but he name it "Horizon Devices" instead

might be collaborated with Dunlop, same way as Wylde audio guitars is with Schetchter. But this is a pedal company, not a Dunlop pedal model. Dont know about the background and Dunlop thing, but if thats how it was made, it makes sense, as its eassier to get the ball rolling rather than start from 0 as hes not an electronic engineer.

same way Tosin might be colaborating with some brand, or industry people in order to release these


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

A-Branger said:


> put it in this way, to make the guitar that you want it cost (as a broad example I have no exact figure) lets say 5000$ in the USA, 2000$ in Korea, 1000$ in Indo/China
> .


Oh no shit? Im glad you put it that way because I didn’t understand basic economics. Your trying to tell me MIA is going to be more expensive? 

Really though, making these overseas makes me feel like they aren’t fully committed. Just shoot some cheapie guitars out there based on their popularity and as soon as the sales dry up, cut and run. Say what you will, but getting a shop running in America or a similar quality place shows a commitment to me that none of these folks are actually making. If the goal is to start overseas, then build to MIA, fair enough. But it just seems like what it is: a cash grab based on popularity that’s temporary.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Thoughts: Tosin is more exacting than your average artist when it comes to his gear, specs wise aesthetic wise, you name it. It's in his personality, his family background (his big bro is a world class fashion designer for god sake), and it shows in his music. And to top it off, a lot of those companies and people that just dropped a trend, made their money and vanished, VANISHED. Tosin is on top of the game right now, and I really feel like he's thinking on a "30 years from now" level, he's in it for the long haul. I don't think he'd risk putting his name on a shitty product. Just looking at some of the "business" moves he's made, I think he's really focused on getting it right. 

BUT, we'll see. Color me excited as a puppy with two tails


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

couverdure said:


> He didn't really "start" his own pedal company, he just collaborated with Dunlop to develop a planned series of effects pedals that suit his needs. The Precision Drive doesn't even have his name all over it.


What about that pro tone bullshit? When one of the forum/YouTube folks starts hocking their own products, be smart and pass. Its already at a point where some of these folks are putting a buffer between the product and their name so when it inevitably crashes and burns, they can cut and run.


----------



## Albake21

glassmoon0fo said:


> Thoughts: Tosin is more exacting than your average artist when it comes to his gear, specs wise aesthetic wise, you name it. It's in his personality, his family background (his big bro is a world class fashion designer for god sake), and it shows in his music. And to top it off, a lot of those companies and people that just dropped a trend, made their money and vanished, VANISHED. Tosin is on top of the game right now, and I really feel like he's thinking on a "30 years from now" level, he's in it for the long haul. I don't think he'd risk putting his name on a shitty product. Just looking at some of the "business" moves he's made, I think he's really focused on getting it right.
> 
> BUT, we'll see. Color me excited as a puppy with two tails



Well said! Completely agree.


----------



## GXPO

7 Strings of Hate said:


> What about that pro tone bullshit? When one of the forum/YouTube folks starts hocking their own products, be smart and pass. Its already at a point where some of these folks are putting a buffer between the product and their name so when it inevitably crashes and burns, they can cut and run.



I know why you're saying that, but it feels to me like some artists are attempting to distance themselves from "signature" paradigm and maybe move into more legitimate enterprise.

I guess it allows them the freedom to produce what they want without having to justify it by using it on stage/in the studio etc. More importantly, it allows them full control over a stable of products to give guys like us more of what we want. 

I'm sure the truth is somewhere between you and I. Have you been hurt before?


----------



## Mathemagician

It’s no different than rappers starting their own labels, rather than spend their lives trying to “get signed” to Columbia or Roadrunner. 

If you CAN convert your brand into a larger enterprise and keep both control/more revenue to yourself, why wouldn’t you?

The games changed. You can tour the world and make no money. This is people adapting.


----------



## couverdure

glassmoon0fo said:


> Thoughts: Tosin is more exacting than your average artist when it comes to his gear, specs wise aesthetic wise, you name it. It's in his personality, his family background (his big bro is a world class fashion designer for god sake), and it shows in his music. And to top it off, a lot of those companies and people that just dropped a trend, made their money and vanished, VANISHED. Tosin is on top of the game right now, and I really feel like he's thinking on a "30 years from now" level, he's in it for the long haul. I don't think he'd risk putting his name on a shitty product. Just looking at some of the "business" moves he's made, I think he's really focused on getting it right.
> 
> BUT, we'll see. Color me excited as a puppy with two tails


I wouldn't call Ibanez a company that makes "shitty" products, and so wouldn't anyone who is sensible. Guys like Vai, Gilbert, and Satch have been with them for over 30 years now and all of them, including the company, are still standing strong with their own signature guitars. I kinda get that Tosin wanted more creative freedom but if the Fireman exists and did well, then he still could've worked his ergonomic single-cut body sig with them. He's already a defining guitarist of this generation and him working with Ibanez made a lot of sense since he had been with them for around 10 years and they were the company who were responsible for bringing extended range guitars to the guitar mainstream.

If he's going to follow the trend of people starting to make their own guitar companies, then I guess that would be a forward-thinking move for him because it seems that he wants to take the risk without any boundaries so everyone can get a piece of what he makes.


----------



## JoeyBTL

A-Branger said:


> same way Tosin might be colaborating with some brand, or industry people in order to release these



This seems to be a huge part of this situation. Going into this type of endeavor depends on a lot of things, and there are a lot of things that a larger, established company can bring to the table that, no matter how good of a guitar builder someone might be, they may not have the resources to pull it off properly. A lot of people have been known to leave some companies because they can't provide certain support for the artist when they are in some foreign country and NEED a piece of gear because it got stolen/airport lost it/airport broke it/it just stops working. For instance, before Strandberg started their larger production you couldn't just walk into any store and find one nor could Ola just grab one off a shelf real quick and ship it Australia (maybe not the best examples but hopefully you get my point). These are things that companies like Ibanez, Schecter or FMIC may be able to do because of their large brand and resources. Which might be another reason its surprising to see Tosin leave one of these companies to start a seemingly much smaller business. But if its connected to a larger one, it could definitely help. 

And to comment on the Protone and Horizon Devices thing, just comparing the companies you have a small one compared to a new that is backed by a large one. It even says on their site that its "Built by MXR for reliable, durable construction". So as a consumer you know that the design of the pedal tone/feature wise is something you have to figure out if you like or not but the quality of way your paying for is backed by a good track record from a trusted company. Even if there is an issue with the product, resolving it should be easier because of this backing.

As far as Tosin possibly leaving Ibanez, it seems like they just couldn't agree on things, like some have said. I don't think he wanted this guitar shape purely for aesthetic reasons and I'm sure some of you have seen his gray prototype where theres about a 3-4mm gap in between the neck and upper body portion. So that doesn't seem like it would have any of the tonal benefits I'd imagine he's looking for by having them completely connected like the set neck. BUT of course that could have been a Premium prototype for all we know, idk.

I know, long post, but I've read a bunch of pages and had an opinion on a lot of stuff haha.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Oh no shit? Im glad you put it that way because I didn’t understand basic economics. Your trying to tell me MIA is going to be more expensive?
> 
> Really though, making these overseas makes me feel like they aren’t fully committed. Just shoot some cheapie guitars out there based on their popularity and as soon as the sales dry up, cut and run. Say what you will, but getting a shop running in America or a similar quality place shows a commitment to me that none of these folks are actually making. If the goal is to start overseas, then build to MIA, fair enough. But it just seems like what it is: a cash grab based on popularity that’s temporary.


I think putting the USA in the domain name is an intentional sign. It's not like abasiguitars was taken, they went out of their way to put USA in there. Considering how little information we do have, I think it's a bit premature to assume these are going to be made overseas. Just because other musicians have done it doesn't mean all of them will.


----------



## Zalbu

Again, Tosin himself said that the design for the prototype was finished and was ready to start being produced back in the summer, so I really doubt there was disagreements on the guitar itself.


----------



## JoeyBTL

There are a couple differences in the design of his last prototype compared the one we are seeing now, so I wouldn't say that as a fact. I don't doubt it either way.


----------



## diagrammatiks

some people here have the business sense of a 6 year old.
misha is definitely involved in horizon devices. you don't need your name in the company name to declare that. Otherwise microsoft would be called bill gate's software.
Also dunlop has oemed out before. They are big enough that its advantageous for them to oem their production capabilities while leveraging the brand value of something that isn't mxr. Dunlop doesn't do it too often but its happened before.


----------



## Zalbu

JoeyBTL said:


> There are a couple differences in the design of his last prototype compared the one we are seeing now


Of course it is? His new guitar is not made by Ibanez, and if you want to tell Tosin himself that he was wrong here  then I would suggest getting in touch with him personally


----------



## bostjan

diagrammatiks said:


> Otherwise microsoft would be called bill gate's software.



Maybe he named it after his... umm... _self_. 

Hopefully no one gets that.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

couverdure said:


> I wouldn't call Ibanez a company that makes "shitty" products, and so wouldn't anyone who is sensible.



I wasn't talking about his Ibby guitars, I was talking about the prospect of whatever these abasi-usa guitars turn out to be, being shitty. I'm a major Ibby fan, have 6 at home right now, it just seems apparent that he has more things he wants to try than what they are willing to do/produce/market. Makes sense, it costs money to hault and reprogram a production line, and we all know whatever he makes is going to be as niche as football bats, so seems like a smart move to me.


----------



## bostjan

I think "wait and see" would be a good approach. These might be expensive as all get out or they might be very affordable. These might be high quality premium pieces, they might be decent quality workhorses, they might be kind of junky, or they might be firewood. At this point, all possibilities are on the table until they actually exist in corporeal form. I think it's not at all unfair to be concerned about where they are made. Sure, you can get a very nicely made custom guitar from China or Indonesia or Durkadurkastan, but frankly, a country of origin that is more apt to putting out high quality products of its own cultural significance is going to yield a statistically significant uptick in quality expectations. You can defend China all you want, but the culture there in general is to manufacture stuff in large quantities for other cultures. If you wanted to buy a really nice maglev train for public transportation in the imaginary city I run, China will be the first place I look. For electric guitars, I still think the USA and the UK are simply more culturally connected to it than China or Indonesia, at least for now, but that said, no way am I going to write something off just because of country of origin, either, it's just one semi-significant factor in the equation.

Ibanez has had a history of making signature guitars that involved innovation developed with their artist partners. Honestly, though, I'm seeing less and less of that, so maybe Tosin's company is a sign that it's run it's course with Ibanez. I mean, Steve Vai wanted a seven string at a time when no solid electric seven strings were available mainstream. Ibby did that for him. Meshuggah wanted eight strings some tenish years later and although they got them, they first had to do it with another builder before Ibanez would work with them.


----------



## JoeyBTL

Zalbu said:


> Of course it is? His new guitar is not made by Ibanez, and if you want to tell Tosin himself that he was wrong here  then I would suggest getting in touch with him personally



I am aware of what he said that, but that doesn't mean things didn't change after that. Its quite obvious that a lot has changed since then. My whole point is that you said because the prototype was finished and ready to be produced, then it couldn't be the reason. Well since the most current guitar is not exactly like the prototype, then it would seem like a design change was desired and could possibly have had a part in it. There are two facts here: one being that he said the design was finished and the other being that the newest guitar is not the same as that design. So something doesn't add up there. 

Regardless, it is all just speculation about these things.


----------



## bulb

GXPO said:


> I know why you're saying that, but it feels to me like some artists are attempting to distance themselves from "signature" paradigm and maybe move into more legitimate enterprise.
> 
> I guess it allows them the freedom to produce what they want without having to justify it by using it on stage/in the studio etc. More importantly, it allows them full control over a stable of products to give guys like us more of what we want.
> 
> I'm sure the truth is somewhere between you and I. Have you been hurt before?



Haha he definitely seems bitter, I bet if we could extract his tears it would make for one hell of an old fashioned.

As far as your post, you are pretty astute to what's going on, and this development with Abasi Guitars is further evidence of that. At the end of the day, we all know there isn't real money in music anymore. Some people will quit and get a real job with real job security, and others will try to find creative ways to make it work with signature gear/businesses etc. 

To quote Ilya Bryzgalov "Why you heff to be mad?"


----------



## Albake21

bulb said:


> Haha he definitely seems bitter, I bet if we could extract his tears it would make for one hell of an old fashioned.
> 
> As far as your post, you are pretty astute to what's going on, and this development with Abasi Guitars is further evidence of that. At the end of the day, we all know there isn't real money in music anymore. Some people will quit and get a real job with real job security, and others will try to find creative ways to make it work with signature gear/businesses etc.
> 
> To quote Ilya Bryzgalov "Why you heff to be mad?"


Well said. Actually pretty surprised to see you still browsing this forum after all these years.


----------



## theicon2125

I'm excited to see where this goes and how expensive they'll be. Hopefully there will be a more affordable model in addition to what Tosin is using. My guess about this in addition to the aforementioned points about artists going into business for themselves is that maybe Ibanez just didn't want to do something so far out there compared to the rest of their line. This would be a 100% unique shape so that means a whole different set of jigs for everything and that's probably pretty expensive. The only other time I can think of them doing a completely different shape was that weird BC Rich inspired guitar they made for Mick Thomson for a while. I don't know how well those sold.

Edit: Regarding him still being on the Ibanez artist list, Head was still on there even after he had started using his LTD prototypes on tour. Maybe they're just a little slow on that.


----------



## odibrom

theicon2125 said:


> Edit: Regarding him still being on the Ibanez artist list, Head was still on there even after he had started using his LTD prototypes on tour. Maybe they're just a little slow on that.



It makes sense since they've been slow on geting his guitar out to the world... so slow that looks like they've missed the train... in the end, the fat lady isn't going to sing but to fart... too bad... I still like Ibanez though...


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Albake21 said:


> Well said. Actually pretty surprised to see you still browsing this forum after all these years.



It's funny because obviously he has found success with music but if he's anything like the rest of us here, what would he rather do than read about and discuss gear when online.

Love that there are established people that keep the interaction up with the community. 

Also super stoked to see how this Abasi guitars business turns out. I'll have to really work at my 8 string chops so I can justify another one haha


----------



## jephjacques

I think they'll probably be cool but I'm gonna wait until the first production run is out in the wild to see how they shake out. The *last* thing we need is another strictly7/washberg/bernie rico situation.


----------



## A-Branger

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Really though, making these overseas makes me feel like they aren’t fully committed. Just shoot some cheapie guitars out there based on their popularity and as soon as the sales dry up, cut and run. Say what you will, but getting a shop running in America or a similar quality place shows a commitment to me that none of these folks are actually making. If the goal is to start overseas, then build to MIA, fair enough. But it just seems like what it is: a cash grab based on popularity that’s temporary.



well not everyone is whilling to spend 3-4k$ on a guitar. Yes, I get your point "U..S..A..!....U..S...A..!" and the old chain of commands "USA>Japan>Korea>Indo>China" but again, not everyone is ready to spend big bucks on a guitar. Reason why people go to overseas factories to keep cost down so they could sell you an "affordable" guitar with great specs. That doesnt mean that "they arent committed!!!aarghhgfg" that means, they are trying to market different kind of people, trying to fill a gap in the amrket, they want to trow a "value" guitar, a nice workhorse with great specs at a price you can actually buy wihtout having to be in debt for a couple of years. Again if you want custom, you can get custom

The country of origin doesnt mean anythinig on if someone its commited to make a guitar or not. Heck chances are those might be the only places he could find info/contact/connections/ect, maybe theres not a place like that iin the USA, so he would ahve to create one which its $$$$$, or the one available can only do X amount of guitars per year in XXXXXX time frame, so its not doable. 

Plus we still dont know where these would be made, the "usa" part of the name of the site might indicate they would be, which it would make you pretty happy. but again it can be only assembly, meaning the boddies and necks get CNC overseas. Which its nothign wrong as the important parts of the build are made in your preffered country of choice. We jsut need to wait and see

Hes not gonna release cheap firewood gutiars, like others mention hes always about class and being the top of his game, so guitars would be of great quality, and like someone already mention who was in tour with him, these would be around the 2k$ mark, "affordable-ish" but of great quality I assume.


and about him leaving Ibanez, it might jsut be a business decision. He meet the right people at the right time, saw an opportunity to lead his own brand and make some extra cash on the side, plus jsut the feeling of doing it. He and his band might be succesfull, but we are not in the 80's anymore, who knows if them are even making a profit after a tour


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

A-Branger said:


> well not everyone is whilling to spend 3-4k$ on a guitar. Yes, I get your point "U..S..A..!....U..S...A..!" and the old chain of commands "USA>Japan>Korea>Indo>China" but again, not everyone is ready to spend big bucks on a guitar. Reason why people go to overseas factories to keep cost down so they could sell you an "affordable" guitar with great specs. That doesnt mean that "they arent committed!!!aarghhgfg" that means, they are trying to market different kind of people, trying to fill a gap in the amrket, they want to trow a "value" guitar, a nice workhorse with great specs at a price you can actually buy wihtout having to be in debt for a couple of years. Again if you want custom, you can get custom
> 
> The country of origin doesnt mean anythinig on if someone its commited to make a guitar or not. Heck chances are those might be the only places he could find info/contact/connections/ect, maybe theres not a place like that iin the USA, so he would ahve to create one which its $$$$$, or the one available can only do X amount of guitars per year in XXXXXX time frame, so its not doable.
> 
> Plus we still dont know where these would be made, the "usa" part of the name of the site might indicate they would be, which it would make you pretty happy. but again it can be only assembly, meaning the boddies and necks get CNC overseas. Which its nothign wrong as the important parts of the build are made in your preffered country of choice. We jsut need to wait and see
> 
> Hes not gonna release cheap firewood gutiars, like others mention hes always about class and being the top of his game, so guitars would be of great quality, and like someone already mention who was in tour with him, these would be around the 2k$ mark, "affordable-ish" but of great quality I assume.
> 
> 
> and about him leaving Ibanez, it might jsut be a business decision. He meet the right people at the right time, saw an opportunity to lead his own brand and make some extra cash on the side, plus jsut the feeling of doing it. He and his band might be succesfull, but we are not in the 80's anymore, who knows if them are even making a profit after a tour



Theres a sucker born every minute.  Go buy one. Have at it. I'm not stopping you. I'm just not sure what "gap" in the market this would be filling? Low end guitars? Mid range guitars? High end guitars? Seems like there isn't a gap as much as a pile at every range.
The truth is, if these are imports, its marketed at gullible fans that can be cashed in on. If its MIA or an equivalent, I can at least respect hes making a real go of it and not just wanting to start a company for the money.

If I gained some notariaty, about the last thing I would ever consider doing to my fans is selling them import guitars, but hey, I try to have integrity. If these aren't import guitars, then I applaud it. (and fyi, MIA doesn't automatically mean 3 or 4k. There are plenty of 1k and even under options for MIA guitars.)


----------



## TheTrooper

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Theres a sucker born every minute.  Go buy one. Have at it. I'm not stopping you. I'm just not sure what "gap" in the market this would be filling? Low end guitars? Mid range guitars? High end guitars? Seems like there isn't a gap as much as a pile at every range.
> The truth is, if these are imports, its marketed at gullible fans that can be cashed in on. If its MIA or an equivalent, I can at least respect hes making a real go of it and not just wanting to start a company for the money.
> 
> If I gained some notariaty, about the last thing I would ever consider doing to my fans is selling them import guitars, but hey, I try to have integrity. If these aren't import guitars, then I applaud it. (and fyi, MIA doesn't automatically mean 3 or 4k. There are plenty of 1k and even under options for MIA guitars.)


I'm not sure what would be the problem if he makes/sells import guitars with it's company......You create a company so that You can make money out of it, that's how it usually works for what I can remember.
Sure, a lot of choices in every price range, but that can be applied to anything.


----------



## technomancer

Don't you love watching the guys that you know are only posting here to troll?


----------



## Bdtunn

Good for tosin, I'd be be happy to see a new company offer some different style guitars on a more "mainstream"level.


----------



## odibrom

[off topic mode on]

I find this MII, MIC, MIM, MIK, MIJ, MIA war amusing... so many wasted time and energy...

... divide and conquer...

[off topic mode off]

We should all be glad for whatever Tosin is doing if it is to benefit the guitar world with more guitar choices besides the same old brands and models...


----------



## diagrammatiks

technomancer said:


> Don't you love watching the guys that you know are only posting here to troll?



It’s like a jeffbro in reverse


----------



## Hollowway

I’m on board with 7SOH in that I’m sick of seeing good musicians get wrapped up with disreputable hype-to-sell companies that try to move their latest little thing quickly. It’s fine, and buyer beware, but consumers are going to lose trust in the artist, and not buy future things he (or she) recommends. There’s one pretty well known company that hypes the crap out of stuff, and then moves on to the next thing. They drag the artist along, and that tarnishes their reputation. I don’t want to name names or products, because I’m not wanting a flood of email from a particular guy who will come down on me, but generally speaking, increasing sales based on hype isn’t a good business model for long lasting, repeat customers. Solid gear, honest assessment, and being upfront goes a LONG way to building a good brand.


----------



## marcwormjim

Eh...just to put a different thought out there: The “disreputable, hype-to-sell” companies alluded to are products of this community and others like it. Any brand looking to expand their margins can recognize that ss.org patrons routinely demonstrate an obedient compulsion to settle for less when it’s cool.

I feel the cynicism expressed in the last few pages is based in Tosin likely being aware that ss.org congregates are generally gullible and will buy anything they’re prescribed. I don’t feel that’s fair to him or his endeavor (as it says more about the target market than anything), but those free to project the worst on to him unfortunately will.

Even though I dislike many of the ways brands succeed, I wish none of them to fail. But knowing just how much an upstart’s success or failure depends upon convincing the ss.org user base to jump on the wagon makes me concerned that AbasiGuitarsUSA could be broken in the first week just by someone DDoSing this site.


----------



## GXPO

bulb said:


> Haha he definitely seems bitter, I bet if we could extract his tears it would make for one hell of an old fashioned.
> 
> As far as your post, you are pretty astute to what's going on, and this development with Abasi Guitars is further evidence of that. At the end of the day, we all know there isn't real money in music anymore. Some people will quit and get a real job with real job security, and others will try to find creative ways to make it work with signature gear/businesses etc.
> 
> To quote Ilya Bryzgalov "Why you heff to be mad?"



I payed £15 for a very average old fashioned in London last night, I don't want to talk about it..


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

bulb said:


> Haha he definitely seems bitter, I bet if we could extract his tears it would make for one hell of an old fashioned.


Shouldnt you be out there selling 400 dollar over drive pedals to folks? Hopefully they actually work this time.

Im not butt hurt. Im not a djent guy. I don’t buy this stuff. But iv watched a lot of the djent crowd race to get products and get let down in a multitude of ways by getting hooked up with shady companies and its pretty shitty.


----------



## diagrammatiks

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Shouldnt you be out there selling 400 dollar over drive pedals to folks? Hopefully they actually work this time.
> 
> Im not butt hurt. Im not a djent guy. I don’t buy this stuff. But iv watched a lot of the djent crowd race to get products and get let down in a multitude of ways by getting hooked up with shady companies and its pretty shitty.



look at this edgy guy and his hyperbole


----------



## jephjacques

I, too, am Mad about guitars Online


----------



## TheTrooper

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Shouldnt you be out there selling 400 dollar over drive pedals to folks? Hopefully they actually work this time.
> 
> Im not butt hurt. Im not a djent guy. I don’t buy this stuff. But iv watched a lot of the djent crowd race to get products and get let down in a multitude of ways by getting hooked up with shady companies and its pretty shitty.



No, definetly _*NOT *_Butthurt.

Clearly a very polite and calm way to respond from somebody that's clearly _*NOT *_Butthurt.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

7 Strings of Hurt, AMIRITE?!


----------



## sezna

okay okay back on topic, enough flaming...


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

Again, not butt hurt. Don't really like Djent, don't buy Djent endorsed products, not interested in this sort of stuff and havn't been burned on any of these products. Just pointing out very real issues that have happened and pointing out that I don't really trust these sorts of ventures on the face of them. Then Bulb took a little shot at me(i guess because I mentioned the protone thing which is a very real thing that happened) and I took a little shot back. I know, its not my best look. I have nothing personally wrong with Bulb. He seems like a swell guy, but if someone wants to swap some paint, hey, whatever. It probably would have been a smarter move if he felt i was stepping on his toes to come in and say something to the effect that when your starting out in this, sometimes the ball rolls a direction you didn't see, but we all learn from our experiences and can only try to do a better job if something goes wrong. Call me crazy.
But have at it guys. I'm out.


----------



## narad

glassmoon0fo said:


> Thoughts: Tosin is more exacting than your average artist when it comes to his gear, specs wise aesthetic wise, you name it.


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


>


To be fair, he was using two of those on his pedal board. Along with his other signature distortion pedals from Leqtique.


----------



## bulb

7 Strings of Hate said:


> *Shouldnt you be out there selling 400 dollar over drive pedals to folks? Hopefully they actually work this time.*
> 
> *Im not butt hurt.* Im not a djent guy. I don’t buy this stuff. But iv watched a lot of the djent crowd race to get products and get let down in a multitude of ways by getting hooked up with shady companies and its pretty shitty.



Oh you aren't butt hurt? Fantastic! Just remember, it's not my fault (or Tosin's or anyone else on this forum for that matter) that things didn't work out for you, and all the hyperbole, vitriol and "hate" in the world won't change that either. 

The good news, which I sincerely hope will cheer you up a bit, it's that my Horizon Devices pedals work wonderfully, you can get them at www.horizondevices.com and they are pretty much half the price you were expecting to pay!!


----------



## cwhitey2

bulb said:


> Oh you aren't butt hurt? Fantastic! Just remember, it's not my fault (or Tosin's or anyone else on this forum for that matter) that things didn't work out for you, and all the hyperbole, vitriol and "hate" in the world won't change that either.
> 
> The good news, which I sincerely hope will cheer you up a bit, it's that my Horizon Devices pedals work wonderfully, you can get them at www.horizondevices.com and they are pretty much half the price you were expecting to pay!!



BOOM! 



I wish I had a pedal company


----------



## goobaba

I wish MORE artists would do this type of thing. Its a win win situation, we get cool products and are able to more directly support the artists we love

I'm surprised Bulb isn't going down this road... yet.


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> Oh you aren't butt hurt? Fantastic! Just remember, it's not my fault (or Tosin's or anyone else on this forum for that matter) that things didn't work out for you, and all the hyperbole, vitriol and "hate" in the world won't change that either.
> 
> The good news, which I sincerely hope will cheer you up a bit, it's that my Horizon Devices pedals work wonderfully, you can get them at www.horizondevices.com and they are pretty much half the price you were expecting to pay!!


Why don't you have a vendor account yet?


----------



## bulb

StevenC said:


> Why don't you have a vendor account yet?


Cuz I don't start threads about my products haha, been here since 2006 posting about whatever, and I guess I'm still here now!


----------



## bulb

goobaba said:


> I wish MORE artists would do this type of thing. Its a win win situation, we get cool products and are able to more directly support the artists we love
> 
> I'm surprised Bulb isn't going down this road... yet.


Manufacturing and guitars are a pretty tricky road, lots of overhead, lots of work, I don't know if I could handle it right now, plus I genuinely love working with the people at Jackson and they have made such amazing guitars for me. I probably would make a little more money if I went down this kinda road as long as it worked out, but at the same time, if it ain't broke....


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> Cuz I don't start threads about my products haha, been here since 2006 posting about whatever, and I guess I'm still here now!


http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/mishas-horizon-devices.317432/#post-4676951

That was easy


----------



## Hogie34

StevenC said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/mishas-horizon-devices.317432/#post-4676951
> 
> That was easy


 He didn’t start the thread...

That was easy


----------



## narad

StevenC said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/mishas-horizon-devices.317432/#post-4676951
> 
> That was easy



It's a bit of a double standard as I've definitely seen vendors get told off (or I think even banned) for posting about products they deal in the general section. Like if Axe-Palace Nick came in and mentioned something about a BKP spec in the pickups sub.

But on the flip-side, SSO is a business -- probably don't want to deincentivize artists from hanging out here. Definitely some blurred lines though -- you'd think at this point there'd just be a definitive policy on artists with sig gear vs. dealers vs. people not selling anything. Kind of unfair to charge guys that hung out here a long time a full dealer fee / posting restrictions to the dealer section just for being successful.



Hogie34 said:


> He didn’t start the thread...
> 
> That was easy



That was kind of his point -- mods had come down on Misha before in threads he didn't start. I mean, do you think SSO is just going to somehow exist without someone starting an invective of precision drive or juggernaut thread


----------



## glassmoon0fo

StevenC said:


> To be fair, he was using two of those on his pedal board. Along with his other signature distortion pedals from Leqtique.



I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not  Played an Epiphone Dot through my buddy's Tosin overdrive, really liked it. I mean, it worked and everything. Great pedal, unless I missed something...


----------



## Hogie34

narad said:


> It's a bit of a double standard as I've definitely seen vendors get told off (or I think even banned) for posting about products they deal in the general section. Like if Axe-Palace Nick came in and mentioned something about a BKP spec in the pickups sub.
> 
> But on the flip-side, SSO is a business -- probably don't want to deincentivize artists from hanging out here. Definitely some blurred lines though -- you'd think at this point there'd just be a definitive policy on artists with sig gear vs. dealers vs. people not selling anything. Kind of unfair to charge guys that hung out here a long time a full dealer fee / posting restrictions to the dealer section just for being successful.
> 
> 
> 
> That was kind of his point -- mods had come down on Misha before in threads he didn't start. I mean, do you think SSO is just going to somehow exist without someone starting an invective of precision drive or juggernaut thread


 yeah, my humor wasn’t shining through on that one. The text definitely didn’t convey tone. I was just being a smart ass to lighten it up a little. I have zero dogs in this fight and don’t generally go around the forum starting crap. Should have put quotes around the “start”... might have been a little more effective.


----------



## narad

Hogie34 said:


> yeah, my humor wasn’t shining through on that one. The text definitely didn’t convey tone. I was just being a smart ass to lighten it up a little. I have zero dogs in this fight and don’t generally go around the forum starting crap. Should have put quotes around the “start”... might have been a little more effective.



No worries -- I'm thinking right here in this thread probably isn't the best spot to hash out those inconsistencies anyway. Unless Tosin shows up, that is!


----------



## bulb

narad said:


> No worries -- I'm thinking right here in this thread probably isn't the best spot to hash out those inconsistencies anyway. Unless Tosin shows up, that is!


Well if that stuff gets enforced, it will definitely encourage him not to post here.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

bulb said:


> Oh you aren't butt hurt? Fantastic! Just remember, it's not my fault (or Tosin's or anyone else on this forum for that matter) that things didn't work out for you, and all the hyperbole, vitriol and "hate" in the world won't change that either.
> !



 I say a lot of these ventures don’t pan out and much of it seems like the fans are the ones that get taken advantage of, but you didn’t like it so im Butthurt now? Nice spin.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

narad said:


> No worries -- I'm thinking right here in this thread probably isn't the best spot to hash out those inconsistencies anyway. Unless Tosin shows up, that is!



Just keep in mind, this thread isn’t a vendor thread and Tosin didn’t start this thread about the product, so we should be game to talk about whatever in here I would assume.


----------



## Hollowway

You guys coming down on 7SOH, separate the message from the language. He's known for rubbing people the wrong way with his bluntness, but he has a point. As I was saying in my earlier post, most of us have zero problems with artists making money off of signature gear. But, there's a line between having signature gear, and having your name slapped on something, and then hyping it as if it is something more than it really is. There are definitely reputable companies out there (Jackson, Schecter, etc) that are going to have a product and say, "Here you go, this is what it does." But there are others that will try to convince you their strings, or OD, or whatever, are different, and going to do things that they cannot back up. In the Solar thread I was cautiously cynical about Ola's venture, because I was concerned it was just going to be another hyped cash grab. The reason I'm concerned about it is that a lot of these guys (Ola, bulb, etc) could, depending on if they're short sighted and work with less than reputable companies and try to move product at any means necessary, or if try to build a reputable and solid brand by putting quality and honesty first. I know in one situation a guy said he didn't like a Precision Drive, and some of the Horizon employees sent him nasty messages about publicly saying he didn't like it. Which pretty much means this guy won't ever buy from them again. It's the same thing people accuse Jeff Kiesel of. 7SOH, myself, and a number of others are saying that we are exceptionally skeptical of musicians who try to sell products with a lot of hype, because there are numerous stories of the products not living up to the hype, and the musician moves on, makes something else, and then says, "OK, this one is even better!" Not that it's justified, but a lot of people are saying the Ragnarok's are just a cash grab from bulb, because he had them all run out and get the juggs not too long ago. Now, I'm sure bulb has no conspiracy to fleece the guitar playing public. But, it does show that the thought process behind the promotion of the product matters. Not that anyone cares what I think, but if I were to make a pickup for progressive music, I wouldn't say, "Exceptionally crushing, huge wall of sound, but with note separation and an articulateness never heard before." Because every single pickup aimed at the djent crowd says that. Instead, it would be nice to hear what makes a pickup different from the others. Because not every pickup and amp can be heavier, tighter, and more string separation than every other amp. 
Anyway, perhaps I'm too jaded, but when I see a musician promoting a product, I tend to think, "Oh, here we go again," rather than, "Oh cool, this product does X, and I want to try that."

Having said all of that, I want to explicitly say that I am not critical of bulb himself, and am a HUGE fan. Hearing an early version of Zyglrox is literally what got be back into playing. (Also a huge fan of Ola E., while on the subject....)


----------



## Mattykoda

Hollowways got a good point.

Can't we all just be happy for a moment that Tosin is going into something to give us more of a variety as to why we are all here in the first place? Ola is doing the same and if they get a paycheck out of it then that's what it is but we're seeing more options of our precise forum specs in guitars more and more. Keith took it by storm with the KM-7 and it was essentially sso's wet dream.

Seriously this is the most action extended range has had in a while and I wonder if jeffbro ever did find a lady.


----------



## Hollowway

Mattykoda said:


> Seriously this is the most action extended range has had in a while and I wonder if jeffbro ever did find a lady.





Yeah, Keith is killing it with the KM7s. Those are solid guitars that don’t pretend to be anything their not. And it’s cool to see Tosin joining the ranks. And praise be to Jebus that I can finally buy an 8 from one of my heroes. (Not counting that previous thing from Tosin. That was gaudier than a Kiesel at Mardi Gras.)


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I for one am just excited to see a non-superstrat 8 string being marketed. There's not exactly a lot of of options out there for non-super strat shaped 8 strings unless you go custom.


----------



## Hollowway

KnightBrolaire said:


> I for one am just excited to see a non-superstrat 8 string being marketed. There's not exactly a lot of of options out there for non-super strat shaped 8 strings unless you go custom.



Yep. And that was the exact feeling I had when Ola debuted the initial Solar line. No 8s, and no unique shapes or features. This ticks both of those boxes. Hopefully they sell well, because it is definitely niche. No conservative dad rockers are gonna be lining up to buy this!


----------



## A-Branger

KnightBrolaire said:


> I for one am just excited to see a non-superstrat 8 string being marketed. There's not exactly a lot of of options out there for non-super strat shaped 8 strings unless you go custom.


and one thats not black.

.....although theres still a very high chance it happens if he release one like his first prototype tho.... but hey theres hope for you guys


----------



## KnightBrolaire

A-Branger said:


> and one thats not black.
> 
> .....although theres still a very high chance it happens if he release one like his first prototype tho.... but hey theres hope for you guys


honestly that's the biggest thing. I'm fucking sick to death of black 8 strings. I'm going to build some 8 string teles in dope 80s colors since ESP/Ibanez hate my money


----------



## BigViolin

I just hope it's black with a rosewood board...for Hollowway's sake, ya know?


----------



## Albake21

I'm really hoping that they make a 7 string version. I hope it's not only 8 strings.


----------



## Hollowway

BigViolin said:


> I just hope it's black with a rosewood board...for Hollowway's sake, ya know?



 You got me! But at least CITES has my back. Black matches anything better than rosewood!


----------



## A-Branger

BigViolin said:


> I just hope it's black with a rosewood board...for Hollowway's sake, ya know?


remember the chrome hardware for that extra touch


----------



## Mathemagician

Ugh. Even with it clearly being a joke my eye twitched at black + rosewood. lol.


----------



## Andromalia

Ah, I had missed a good drama thread for some time.


----------



## BigViolin

That's my last drive-by on the rosewood thing. Besides if it didn't happen on the TAM10 it never will.


----------



## Randy

KnightBrolaire said:


> honestly that's the biggest thing. I'm fucking sick to death of black 8 strings. I'm going to build some 8 string teles in dope 80s colors since ESP/Ibanez hate my money


----------



## diagrammatiks

Randy said:


>



not a tele. tele4lyfe


----------



## Shoeless_jose

A-Branger said:


> remember the chrome hardware for that extra touch



Why chrome when cosmo black is so much cooler???


----------



## KnightBrolaire

diagrammatiks said:


> not a tele. tele4lyfe


^He gets it.


Randy said:


>


yeah I've seen the new sc608. it only checks one box for me and that's the whole "not black 8 string" part, not the I want a SCT608 already part :/


----------



## LordCashew

Hollowway said:


> You got me! But at least CITES has my back. Black matches anything better than rosewood!



Oh? Here's some Jatoba for you sir, courtesy of CITES...


----------



## diagrammatiks

KnightBrolaire said:


> ^He gets it.
> 
> yeah I've seen the new sc608. it only checks one box for me and that's the whole "not black 8 string" part, not the I want a SCT608 already part :/



with skervesen discontinuing the tamandua...i think the only place to get an erg tele with classic proportions is kiesel. derail over.


----------



## lewis

LordIronSpatula said:


> Oh? Here's some Jatoba for you sir, courtesy of CITES...



Literally the biggest pile of shit Ive ever seen and thats not even talking about the rank "browness" ruining the black Aesthetic.

I swear at this point, it should be illegal to sell black guitars with light brown fretboards.
What a complete mess that looks honestly.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

diagrammatiks said:


> with skervesen discontinuing the tamandua...i think the only place to get an erg tele with classic proportions is kiesel. derail over.


for less classic looking teles there's still aviator, blackat and knightro.


----------



## Albake21

lewis said:


> Literally the biggest pile of shit Ive ever seen and thats not even talking about the rank "browness" ruining the black Aesthetic.
> 
> I swear at this point, it should be illegal to sell black guitars with light brown fretboards.
> What a complete mess that looks honestly.


Absolutely agree. I will never buy a black guitar with a rosewood fretboard. Has to be either ebony or an exotic wood. I was hoping the new rosewood import laws would make companies use ebony more... But nope.


----------



## lewis

Albake21 said:


> Absolutely agree. I will never buy a black guitar with a rosewood fretboard. Has to be either ebony or an exotic wood. I was hoping the new rosewood import laws would *make companies use ebony more*... But nope.



Same!. What complete idiots.
Do they even do market research? I swear Ive seen an abundance of people like us declaring our hatred for this aesthetic over at least the last 8 years that I have been active on forums dedicated to music, compared to the small handful of people that have said they dont mind it.

It must be a majority opinion so why keep churning them out?. This CITES law was the perfect chance to do said market research whilst be bold enough to actually and actively search for a wood replacement in general.

Got to give Aristides massive credit for being brave enough to make guitars that dont use wood whatsoever.

even Gibson were smart enough to use Richlite instead of ebony (and it honestly looked amazing and I bet played great too as it seemed super smooth)


----------



## Mathemagician

Richlite is amazing. Feels super smooth and looks great especially in black.


----------



## Albake21

lewis said:


> Same!. What complete idiots.
> Do they even do market research? I swear Ive seen an abundance of people like us declaring our hatred for this aesthetic over at least the last 8 years that I have been active on forums dedicated to music, compared to the small handful of people that have said they dont mind it.
> 
> It must be a majority opinion so why keep churning them out?. This CITES law was the perfect chance to do said market research whilst be bold enough to actually and actively search for a wood replacement in general.
> 
> Got to give Aristides massive credit for being brave enough to make guitars that dont use wood whatsoever.
> 
> even Gibson were smart enough to use Richlite instead of ebony (and it honestly looked amazing and I bet played great too as it seemed super smooth)


The only thing I can think of is rosewood might be cheaper than ebony? I would think so... 

Man I love everything Aristides is doing. I promised myself that I'd own one, one day. I hope more companies follow suit in the future. Non wood guitars are the future of guitars IMO.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Aristides are unreal, richlite is awesome. And how about some maple boards on those black guitars, maple is le clutch!!!


----------



## Albake21

Dineley said:


> Aristides are unreal, richlite is awesome. And how about some maple boards on those black guitars, maple is le clutch!!!


Even better is flamed maple!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Albake21 said:


> The only thing I can think of is rosewood might be cheaper than ebony? I would think so...
> 
> Man I love everything Aristides is doing. I promised myself that I'd own one, one day. I hope more companies follow suit in the future. Non wood guitars are the future of guitars IMO.


If everybody switched to whatever magic phenolic fretboards parker was using back in the day I would be so happy. I have some guitars that feel fast as hell and the fretboards feel good, but none of them really compares to the parker fly I played years ago. Plus I'm all for stuff that's pitch black and feels/sounds good.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah I believe rosewood is substantially cheaper than ebony for use in fretboards. There ARE really cool rosewood boards, with figuring, streaking, etc. But they never show up in these guitars. 

Regarding the Tamandua, I can’t help but think if they did some cool finishes they would have moved more of them. It’s hard for me to justify spending over $2000 on a plain brown wood guitar from overseas. But do the Skervy reverse blue burst on Burl? I’m all over it!


----------



## cip 123

On the subject of Ebony, Bob Taylor of Taylor guitar went over a few years ago to the main exporter of Ebony to see what was being used. Long story short anything not pure black wasn't bought by manufacturers, so Taylor bought it all to have less discrimination, paying the same price for black ebony as brown or streaky ebony. So Taylor guitars own most of the Ebony, as well as most guitarists wanting Ebony to be black manufacturers might not want to pay the same price for brown ebony.

Basically ebony is definitely still around but Taylor own most of it and can set the price to what they want.

There are great substitutes like Rocklite Ebano which looks like Ebony, but is manmade from more sustainable woods and actually easier to work with.


----------



## A-Branger

Dineley said:


> Why chrome when cosmo black is so much cooler???


although nothing beats the excitement to see your hardware change color over a few months, theres nothing like having your guitar looking like a 200$ entry level one

-"oh look a gloss black guitar with rosewood and chrome hardware, and I cant recognise the shape or brand...that must be such a cheap guitar"
*big smile grind on your face*...."if they only knew, wait till I start playing"

-playing starts-.....-tone intensifies-

*minds blown*

-you have un-locked an achievement-


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Albake21 said:


> Absolutely agree. I will never buy a black guitar with a rosewood fretboard. Has to be either ebony or an exotic wood. I was hoping the new rosewood import laws would make companies use ebony more... But nope.





lewis said:


> Same!. What complete idiots.
> Do they even do market research? I swear Ive seen an abundance of people like us declaring our hatred for this aesthetic over at least the last 8 years that I have been active on forums dedicated to music, compared to the small handful of people that have said they dont mind it.



Even if they used ebony, there's a good chance it might not be pitch black either. It'll most likely be brown, streaky ebony. 

I agree with using richlite, ebanol, or any other kind of phenolic deal. Only problem is you'll have tone snobs bitching about having fake materials on their guitar. God the shitstorm that erupted when Gibson started using Richlite.


----------



## A-Branger

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I agree with using richlite, ebanol, or any other kind of phenolic deal. Only problem is you'll have tone snobs bitching about having fake materials on their guitar. God the shitstorm that erupted when Gibson started using Richlite



yeh but like msot things it would pass quick. With Gibson I understand why it happens as 80% of their users are " give me a 50's-60's guitar duuurrhh" stuck in that era, they want that and nothing else. Reason why Gibson is going down now, when they should be at par with PRS in finishes/specs/colors. And I bet you it could be the same with Fender if they slap a richilite board onto their regular line.

But on a new brand like this one ppl are more open. Plus nothing like a good old marketing of "X product has better feel and better tone for your fretboards" and done, ppl would be arguing all day long about the tone/feel improvement online, even if they never actually touch the board due to smooth tall frets 

See Aristides, noone is complaining. Everyone is GASing madly about having one, and theres no wood. Plus all their guitars are solid colors, a feature that would turn off 80% of people on high end and custom instruments


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I think man made materials for a FB are totally fine. I don’t give a rip about the supposed tone qualities. 
That being said, rosewood, and other poo brown woods, do look nice with some finishes. Like killer burst, or something with similar colors.


----------



## A-Branger

Hollowway said:


> rosewood, and other poo brown woods


----------



## ixlramp

I once owned a Cort Curbow fretless 4 string bass, black, with an Ebonol fretboard. Extremely smooth, extremely black, extremely hard, it was the most gorgeous looking fretboard i have ever seen, better looking and feeling than black ebony, brighter and more sustain for a fretless.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Ebony will be on CITES soon, my bets would be on sometime next year. At that stage most manufacturers will have little choice but to move towards non wood fretboard materials.



bulb said:


> At the end of the day, we all know there isn't real money in music anymore. Some people will quit and get a real job with real job security, and others will try to find creative ways to make it work with signature gear/businesses etc.



Yeah there is no real money in selling music anymore because the internet has no made it completely unnecessary to pay for music. It doesn't help the industry that so many artists/bands are clueless on how to adapt or even manage basic things like their social media pages properly. There is so much money to be made in other avenues thanks to the net.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Lorcan Ward said:


> Ebony will be on CITES soon, my bets would be on sometime next year. At that stage most manufacturers will have little choice but to move towards non wood fretboard materials.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah there is no real money in selling music anymore because the internet has no made it completely unnecessary to pay for music. It doesn't help the industry that so many artists/bands are clueless on how to adapt or even manage basic things like their social media pages properly. There is so much money to be made in other avenues thanks to the net.


 Using ebony more will just get it on CITES that much sooner. The industry needs to switch to Richlite as much as possible, in my opinion.


----------



## Albake21

ElysianGuitars said:


> Using ebony more will just get it on CITES that much sooner. The industry needs to switch to Richlite as much as possible, in my opinion.


We can only hope. Who else even uses Richlite besides Aristides?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Albake21 said:


> We can only hope. Who else even uses Richlite besides Aristides?


Gibson has if I'm not mistaken, I think Martin does, and I think small builders are starting to use it more and more.


----------



## Andromalia

I've had black guitars with rosewood boards forever, I guess it's just a matter of habit. Think fo the early 90es Ibanez or Japanese Fenders I played then. The above ESP doesn't shock me at all.

About Richlite and stuff, there is a misconception they're cheap to manufacture, that's not exactly the case either.


----------



## Albake21

Andromalia said:


> I've had black guitars with rosewood boards forever, I guess it's just a matter of habit. Think fo the early 90es Ibanez or Japanese Fenders I played then. The above ESP doesn't shock me at all.
> 
> About Richlite and stuff, there is a misconception they're cheap to manufacture, that's not exactly the case either.


I get that, but this isn't the early 90's anymore. A lot of us prefer modern looking guitars, and a rosewood board on a black guitar is the opposite of that. Everyone has their own taste though.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Albake21 said:


> I get that, but this isn't the early 90's anymore. A lot of us prefer modern looking guitars, and a rosewood board on a black guitar is the opposite of that. Everyone has their own taste though.



and there are just so many of them. do we really need anymore. anybody could go out and buy 100 black guitars with rosewood boards right now and be set for life.


----------



## StevenC

I hope we get a wenge fretboard option with that off white/blue colour.


----------



## Albake21

diagrammatiks said:


> and there are just so many of them. do we really need anymore. anybody could go out and buy 100 black guitars with rosewood boards right now and be set for life.


That's what I'm saying. We already have too much rosewood as it is. It's also just not modern looking.


----------



## lewis

I cant wait to illegally download my next guitar.........

also agree about Ebony. Its a matter of time until its banned too. Hence the stupidity of all companies not looking at man made materials now to replace wood.

Would have made the most sense to say "Right Rosewood is banned, other woods will now likely follow. Lets find a man made alternative"


----------



## LordCashew

ixlramp said:


> I once owned a Cort Curbow fretless 4 string bass, black, with an Ebonol fretboard. Extremely smooth, extremely black, extremely hard, it was the most gorgeous looking fretboard i have ever seen, better looking and feeling than black ebony, brighter and more sustain for a fretless.



+1. I played one of those in a shop once and the difference a hard, synthetic material like that makes to the tone of a fretless bass is remarkable. The ebony board on my Carvin fretless is flawless but even unplugged, the ebonol board just contributes so more obvious growl and sustain, it's a wonder they aren't in higher demand. Speaks to a lot of closed-mindedness in the bass community, I guess...

So is this a fretboard thread now?


----------



## Lemonbaby

lewis said:


> also agree about Ebony. Its a matter of time until its banned too. Hence the stupidity of all companies not looking at man made materials now to replace wood.


Sorry for the extensive OT, but it's not the companies who insist on woods as base material. The customers want it...

99% of all guitarists that a “fat sound“ must be created by a mahogany body with maple top, a “sparkling clean“ can only come out of Alder and metal guitars benefit from Swamp Ash for “that bite“. Why bother selling them something different?


----------



## Mathemagician

lewis said:


> I cant wait to illegally download my next guitar.........
> 
> also agree about Ebony. Its a matter of time until its banned too. Hence the stupidity of all companies not looking at man made materials now to replace wood.
> 
> Would have made the most sense to say "Right Rosewood is banned, other woods will now likely follow. Lets find a man made alternative"



This has actually been the case with several different types of mahogany over the years. BC Rich was using “NATO” which is “woodisically” (idk I’m not a woodologist) effectively mahogany because it was a bit less expensive/not farmed in the same parts of the world.

I remember reading about various types of like “African mahogany” then it was “Honduran mahogany” and so on.

You can’t have everyone farming and using the same stuff forever and expect to not outpace the regrowth.

Man-made materials are where things will be headed. And I’m glad companies like Aristides are forging ahead so as to have all their ducks in a row. They know what sounds good, what people like/want, and have the capacity to keep building.

I’d love to see them scale to at least an EBMM level of of production line, as well as their current fully custom shop.


----------



## lewis

Mathemagician said:


> This has actually been the case with several different types of mahogany over the years. BC Rich was using “NATO” which is “woodisically” (idk I’m not a woodologist) effectively mahogany because it was a bit less expensive/not farmed in the same parts of the world.
> 
> I remember reading about various types of like “African mahogany” then it was “Honduran mahogany” and so on.
> 
> You can’t have everyone farming and using the same stuff forever and expect to not outpace the regrowth.
> 
> Man-made materials are where things will be headed. And I’m glad companies like Aristides are forging ahead so as to have all their ducks in a row. They know what sounds good, what people like/want, and have the capacity to keep building.
> 
> I’d love to see them scale to at least an EBMM level of of production line, as well as their current fully custom shop.


Bingo and to add, as amazing as being a guitarist is and what it has given me and millions of others, i will always value nature and trees ahead of what a guitar should and should not be made from (subjective anyway)

We should have already gone the Aristides route with every company. Its about time we valued our planet and protected it, rather than take it for granted and ruin it.

And the best bit about all this is the "tonewood debate"
If tonewood isnt actually a thing, and its more to do with pickups and individual technique, why would it matter whether a guitar was made from wood...or recycled barbie dolls?...

Think these "wood snob" tone purists pick and choose when there argument makes sense or not.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

lewis said:


> Bingo and to add, as amazing as being a guitarist is and what it has given me and millions of others, i will always value nature and trees ahead of what a guitar should and should not be made from (subjective anyway)
> 
> We should have already gone the Aristides route with every company. Its about time we valued our planet and protected it, rather than take it for granted and ruin it.



Without the need for more wood though, the incentive to farm it (and thus plant more trees) in areas of the world that can grow trees dies out. the first world has to incentivise reforestation to less industrialised nations and a big part of that comes from demand for certain wood species.

That said I completely agree that there's no reason that "honduran mahogany" has to be what guitars are made of...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Without the need for more wood though, the incentive to farm it (and thus plant more trees) in areas of the world that can grow trees dies out. the first world has to incentivise reforestation to less industrialised nations and a big part of that comes from demand for certain wood species.
> 
> That said I completely agree that there's no reason that "honduran mahogany" has to be what guitars are made of...


the problem is sustaining the demand and having a steady supply of wood. A lot of woods that guitar players/builders love take a long time to grow. I think I remember Bob taylor saying an ebony tree takes like 60 years before it's worth harvesting (the older the tree the blacker the wood). Ebony will never be sustainable at the rate the tree grows. Even wenge, which is one of my favorite woods is unsustainable/ currently endangered . the sooner we can start using synthetic materials in lieu of woods then the better off those species will be.


----------



## A-Branger

in other word jsut go and get yourself your crazy fancy exotic wood guitar you always dreamed of now before its too late. So in 40-50 years time your grandchildren would look at you with a big face of disappointment and disgust when they come to your house and see all the trophy hunt (guitars) on your wall.



"see kids, this guitar its made out of wood"
"like a tree grandad?"
"sure it is kiddo"
"wwwooooooooww"


----------



## KnightBrolaire

A-Branger said:


> in other word jsut go and get yourself your crazy fancy exotic wood guitar you always dreamed of now before its too late. So in 40-50 years time your grandchildren would look at you with a big face of disappointment and disgust when they come to your house and see all the trophy hunt (guitars) on your wall.
> 
> 
> 
> "see kids, this guitar its made out of wood"
> "like a tree grandad?"
> "sure it is kiddo"
> "wwwooooooooww"


exactly. Now's the time to get my ebony topped palemoon ebony fretboard 8 string with a flamed honduran mahogany body.
this is like bagging an elephant level of guitar trophy hunting imo


----------



## A-Branger

although I feel the trussrod cover is bit too big, thats a beauty sir. Whats the neck made of?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

A-Branger said:


> although I feel the trussrod cover is bit too big, thats a beauty sir. Whats the neck made of?


padauk


----------



## Mathemagician

It’s awesome for sure!


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

I also hope that alternative materials become more common, because I've been wanting to own something that makes use of them for a while now. Ideally, it will become commonplace enough that someone will start making an alternative materials guitar or bass that still looks like a vintage-style guitar. I want the benefits of going woodless, but I don't want to play a guitar that looks like it was designed by the same guy who designed the accessories that came with ninja turtle action figures.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

Albake21 said:


> We can only hope. Who else even uses Richlite besides Aristides?



A couple who use it fairly regularly are Gibson and Godin.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I also hope that alternative materials become more common, because I've been wanting to own something that makes use of them for a while now. Ideally, it will become commonplace enough that someone will start making an alternative materials guitar or bass that still looks like a vintage-style guitar. I want the benefits of going woodless, but I don't want to play a guitar that looks like it was designed by the same guy who designed the accessories that came with ninja turtle action figures.


*cough* etherial *cough*


----------



## couverdure

Uhh, Tosin Abasi?

[insert comment about anyone who owns black guitars with rosewood fretboards being deserved to be thrown in death row]


----------



## jephjacques

black guitars with rosewood boards look fine IMO and it's all gonna be roasted/dyed maple in 5 years anyway assuming civilization lasts that long


----------



## prlgmnr

AkiraSpectrum said:


> A couple who use it fairly regularly are Gibson and Godin.


I didn't realise those two were together.


----------



## Andromalia

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I also hope that alternative materials become more common, because I've been wanting to own something that makes use of them for a while now. Ideally, it will become commonplace enough that someone will start making an alternative materials guitar or bass that still looks like a vintage-style guitar. I want the benefits of going woodless, but I don't want to play a guitar that looks like it was designed by the same guy who designed the accessories that came with ninja turtle action figures.



TBH some already exist besides Aristides, but price is an issue. No wood means, to begin with, less setup work and I'm all for that. I'd l'd love to get a... a.... forgot the brand name even, those dudes making 100% non wood guitars in Finland.


----------



## Dcm81

Hollowway said:


> Yeah I believe rosewood is substantially cheaper than ebony for use in fretboards. There ARE really cool rosewood boards, with figuring, streaking, etc. But they never show up in these guitars.



Astonishingly, my cheapo RGD-7421 has a stunning rosewood board with some extreme streaking..........very surprising to see though!



cip 123 said:


> On the subject of Ebony, Bob Taylor of Taylor guitar went over a few years ago to the main exporter of Ebony to see what was being used. Long story short anything not pure black wasn't bought by manufacturers, so Taylor bought it all to have less discrimination, paying the same price for black ebony as brown or streaky ebony. So Taylor guitars own most of the Ebony, as well as most guitarists wanting Ebony to be black manufacturers might not want to pay the same price for brown ebony.
> 
> Basically ebony is definitely still around but Taylor own most of it and can set the price to what they want.
> 
> There are great substitutes like Rocklite Ebano which looks like Ebony, but is manmade from more sustainable woods and actually easier to work with.



I heard bamboo is an alternative (Relish guitars) and that grows extremely quickly...


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Andromalia said:


> TBH some already exist besides Aristides, but price is an issue. No wood means, to begin with, less setup work and I'm all for that. I'd l'd love to get a... a.... forgot the brand name even, those dudes making 100% non wood guitars in Finland.



Yeah, I know there are other brands, and they have the same problem: Wonky aesthetics. Aristides, Flaxxwood, Status, Modulus, Zon... I'm not really a fan of the way any of them look. I'd love for one of them to just do a straight up Strat, LP, or Jazz Bass clone. I know, I know, I'm boring, but such is life.

I assume the Finnish company you're referring to is Flaxxwood. I don't think they're particularly good looking, but the right finish/hardware combo on one particular model is almost agreeable. Certainly better looking than Aristides, but that isn't really saying much.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

KnightBrolaire said:


> *cough* *Aristides **cough*




Fixed.


----------



## Andromalia

Yeah that was Flaxwood. contemplated getting this one at some point:

http://www.flaxwood.com/models/emg-h+emg-t+aija/

Then the french distributor went belly up and I went other ways.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Yeah, I know there are other brands, and they have the same problem: Wonky aesthetics. Aristides, Flaxxwood, Status, Modulus, Zon... I'm not really a fan of the way any of them look. I'd love for one of them to just do a straight up Strat, LP, or Jazz Bass clone. I know, I know, I'm boring, but such is life.
> 
> I assume the Finnish company you're referring to is Flaxxwood. I don't think they're particularly good looking, but the right finish/hardware combo on one particular model is almost agreeable. Certainly better looking than Aristides, but that isn't really saying much.



relish makes really beautiful guitars in a classic shape. they are expensive tho. and no ergs.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

prlgmnr said:


> I didn't realise those two were together.



They're not, just saying that those are two companies that use Richlite somewhat regularly.


----------



## Zado

https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/


----------



## Dime1012

http://www.musicradar.com/news/namm-2018-tosin-abasi-announces-his-own-guitar-company


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

diagrammatiks said:


> relish makes really beautiful guitars in a classic shape.



We have *vastly *different definitions of the phrase "classic shape."


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Grand Moff Tim said:


> We have *vastly *different definitions of the phrase "classic shape."


yeah the relish guitars are definitely not "classic"


----------



## narad

Grand Moff Tim said:


> We have *vastly *different definitions of the phrase "classic shape."



His is a bit more "Rubenesque"


----------



## Hollowway

Aaaargh! Tosin, put info on that website! I live in 2017 United States - patience and delayed gratification aren’t my strong suits. I’m gonna go all Veruca Salt on you!! I want it now!!


----------



## xzacx

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I'd love for one of them to just do a straight up Strat, LP, or Jazz Bass clone. I know, I know, I'm boring, but such is life.


No need for a clone, you can go directly to the source for an LP with a Richlite board. Gibson has been getting criticized for it for five-plus years. Non-Historic Customs typically have it now.


----------



## sezna

what if tosin just releases a line of strat clones then what do we do


----------



## Hollowway

sezna said:


> what if tosin just releases a line of strat clones then what do we do


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

xzacx said:


> No need for a clone, you can go directly to the source for an LP with a Richlite board. Gibson has been getting criticized for it for five-plus years. Non-Historic Customs typically have it now.



Oh, I didn't just mean the fretboard. I know Gibson's been using it for years, and have even commented before on how it's amusing that everyone used to shit on Gibson for using richlite but now that Aristides does it's suddenly cool and desirable. I want an entire guitar made of alternative materials (as is the case with Aristides, Flaxxwood, and some Status models), or at very least the entire neck + fretboard (as with Zon and Modulus).

Ever since moving to Korea I've been dealing with climate wreaking havoc on my necks & fingerboards, and I'd just as soon not have to worry about it. Sadly, nobody seems able to make anything that I would actually want to see on a stand in my apartment. 

(Yes, I have a humidifier in my apartment now, before anyone suggests it.)


----------



## marcwormjim

Gibson was criticized because they’ve put themselves in a corner where they’re only allowed to live in the past and have a hundred concurrently produced SKUs for Les Pauls with minute spec variations at any given time, and STILL managed to alienate the consumer base with attempts to modernize fretboards, tuners, control cavity assemblies, _weight - _You name it. I found the bulk of the troglydites criticizing the richlite were just failing to articulate that they resented what the change _represented_ in the direction of the brand.


----------



## JSanta

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Oh, I didn't just mean the fretboard. I know Gibson's been using it for years, and have even commented before on how it's amusing that everyone used to shit on Gibson for using richlite but now that Aristides does it's suddenly cool and desirable. I want an entire guitar made of alternative materials (as is the case with Aristides, Flaxxwood, and some Status models), or at very least the entire neck + fretboard (as with Zon and Modulus).
> 
> Ever since moving to Korea I've been dealing with climate wreaking havoc on my necks & fingerboards, and I'd just as soon not have to worry about it. Sadly, nobody seems able to make anything that I would actually want to see on a stand in my apartment.
> 
> (Yes, I have a humidifier in my apartment now, before anyone suggests it.)



That's one of the reasons I've loved Parker. The problem (other than cost) was that they were really marmite for people. It's a shame because they are spectacular instruments. 

I wish nothing but good things for Tosin's brand, but I find the design aesthetic to be atrocious. I'm not his target market though, so my opinion doesn't matter!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

sezna said:


> what if tosin just releases a line of strat clones then what do we do


complain about them. Then watch a bunch of people that were complaining about them on here buy them.


----------



## Mathemagician

KnightBrolaire said:


> complain about them. Then watch a bunch of people that were complaining about them on here buy them.



Like the people who complain about Call of Duty being “the same” every year, but then go out and buy it day-1 anyways.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Not sure if this has been posted before but this is what you see when you go to Tosin's Ibanez artist page, here:







So Ibanez is cool with that????!!!!!!! So it maybe just that they gave Tosin a better deal? Like he could have the profits from USA production (under his name) while they sell the Indo copies?


----------



## cip 123

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> So Ibanez is cool with that????!!!!!!! So it maybe just that they gave Tosin a better deal? Like he could have the profits from USA production (under his name) while they sell the Indo copies?



Highly doubt it, the website probably isn't updated. It's nearing NAMM and the new year they'll be busy getting photoshoots done for new models etc getting everything sorted, they probably haven't gotten round to it, also taking him off could impact sales. His contract may not entirely be up yet either which is why he hasn't actually named a company. He's been showing this thing off as an Ibanez for what a year and a half now? If he's still under contract it's still driving fans/customers to Ibanez.

Also if he's moving to take more control it makes absolutely no sense to leave Ibanez with the right to put his name on an Indo copy that he can't oversee as well. 

Don't forget Dimarzio still sell his signature pickups and he's been with Duncan and now Fishman since that. Dimarzio don't take it down or rename it because he sells. Ibanez will probably want to leave it as late as possible and get him a long till he's announced his plans fully.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Any chances this is in partnership with Ibanez in some capacity?

EDIT: Oh wait that's just embeds of their Twitter/FB feeds.


----------



## odibrom

Maybe Ibanez is just waiting for NAMM to update their sites and change things... until then, his name sells...


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Any chances this is in partnership with Ibanez in some capacity?
> 
> EDIT: Oh wait that's just embeds of their Twitter/FB feeds.



So Ibanez just displays the feed from TA's social media without filtering? That's hilarious, but makes more sense lol.


----------



## A-Branger

yup pretty much, its only a link to his feed. You cant really do a "block everything thats not ibanez" thing

and yeh prob Ibanez is milking it while his contract is still up. Reason why he might wont show anything yet. Day that his contract finish, day that his website/brand goes live


----------



## Triple-J

Premier Guitar have a new rig rundown with Tosin & Javier.


----------



## sezna

only shows his ibanez prototypes though. the gossip continues.

also looks like javier lost weight. nice.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

sezna said:


> only shows his ibanez prototypes though. the gossip continues.



PG says this was taken a month ago.


----------



## Hollowway

Forget talking about Tosin - any word on the strat looking 8 string Javier has? I'd love to see a production version of that!


----------



## gunshow86de

They just had to get the twitchy guy to do the interview.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunshow86de said:


> They just had to get the twitchy guy to do the interview.



"A compressor for people th-"
"...THAT HATE COMPRESSION, YEAH."

I wish this guy would learn how to hold himself back.  

Also interesting to see Tosin go from using a Digital stuff to a clean amp/distortion pedal setup. Also cool to see him using the BE-OD.


----------



## A-Branger

go to his instagram page, new video on his page and on his stories too


----------



## couverdure

It's like the time when Chris Broderick was going to put out a signature model with Ibanez and even had some production prototypes made before he switched to Jackson around a year later.


----------



## sezna

Ibanez gettin' hoe'd left and right

to be fair the versions of tosin's guitar that Ibanez did, imo, looked better. and this move could perhaps not have been due to ibanez not satisfying tosin, rather, tosin trying to stay profitable as a musician


----------



## KnightBrolaire

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc8qby2givA/


----------



## cwhitey2

We are all being played, they are going to be made by Kiesel


----------



## Kyle Jordan

I'm wondering if the (what looks to be) set neck design of the Abasi Guitars version is Tosin's choice as a personal preference or a choice based on what he thinks the market wants? He's spoken highly of bolt-on construction in the past, and even in the new PG Rig Rundown. I'll freely admit that the heel on the Abasi Guitars version looks outstanding an quite comfy. It's grabbed my interest which otherwise, was only surface level.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

cwhitey2 said:


> We are all being played, they are going to be made by Kiesel


There's a distinct lack of tattoos in that video


----------



## cwhitey2

ElysianGuitars said:


> There's a distinct lack of tattoos in that video


That is true!

I was waiting for Jeff's head to pop in from the side


----------



## gunshow86de

ElysianGuitars said:


> There's a distinct lack of tattoos in that video



And not a single "rad" was uttered.

Not sure if this photo was posted already......


----------



## WafWaffle

Looks really good...


----------



## theicon2125

cwhitey2 said:


> We are all being played, they are going to be made by Kiesel



Not gonna lie, the thought went through my head that maybe he's using Kiesel as his OEM (hence the USA part of the company name). If the QC and customer service was done outside of Kiesel I'd be fine with it because from what I've seen, when Kiesels are good, they're good. But when they're not good that's when you run into the issue of awful customer service. That would potentially mean they'll be semi affordable.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Me being th fanboi I am, I'd still probably get in on the first run. As far as Tosin pumping bolt one, he said it when he was a paid endorser of a company that probably wasn't going to make his production model a neck through so I'd say his custom speaks louder to his preference here. I dunno though I'm just some dude on the internet lol


----------



## cwhitey2

theicon2125 said:


> Not gonna lie, the thought went through my head that maybe he's using Kiesel as his OEM (hence the USA part of the company name). If the QC and customer service was done outside of Kiesel I'd be fine with it because from what I've seen, when Kiesels are good, they're good. But when they're not good that's when you run into the issue of awful customer service. That would potentially mean they'll be semi affordable.



That's what I was jokingly thinking as well.

BUT I don't think Jeff ego would allow that to happen...he would want it to say Kiesel somewhere


----------



## Kyle Jordan

So, trying to get ahead of the curve here, if these are indeed USA built for Tosin by Kiesel, I vote they be playfully nicknamed "Kabasel" or "Kiebasi" guitars. 

I now I want sausage...


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Just don't see Kiesel doing something like this...


----------



## cwhitey2

ElysianGuitars said:


> Just don't see Kiesel doing something like this...


Does it need more bevels?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

cwhitey2 said:


> Does it need more bevels?


Needs more Kiesel logos and K inlays.


----------



## narad

It's gotta be schecter USA CS, right? The top looks right out of Merrow's USA KM.


----------



## gunshow86de

Just throwing this out there, is it possible they are "re-purposing" the Washburn US shop? They do have experience doing ergonomic fanned frets with the Strandberg stuff.

Also, Parker is supposed to be going back in to production in 2018. Maybe they are in the same building? Though, obviously, this is very different from a Parker.


----------



## DudeManBrother

(((Conspiracy theory))) Misha is good friends with Tosin, so he set him up with one of the dudes from Peavey. They agreed to build Abasi guitars in Meridian. Due to the unforeseen setup and tooling requirements for AbasiUSA, Peavey management had to pull most of the staff off the Invective assembly as a temporary measure. That’s why there are so few Invective amps being delivered, and why Tosin can put USA in his web address. 


WOW!!! haha


----------



## KnightBrolaire

narad said:


> It's gotta be schecter USA CS, right? The top looks right out of Merrow's USA KM.


Keith said tosin's sig is not being made by schecter.


----------



## technomancer

gunshow86de said:


> Just throwing this out there, is it possible they are "re-purposing" the Washburn US shop? They do have experience doing ergonomic fanned frets with the Strandberg stuff.
> 
> Also, Parker is supposed to be going back in to production in 2018. Maybe they are in the same building? Though, obviously, this is very different from a Parker.



Everybody was fired and the shop closed so unless it is whatever new facility Parker is supposedly going into I doubt it. The Parker stuff it wasn't clear if it was USA either, was it? Don't remember for sure.

It's funny as I really have no interest in this at all, but am just curious how it shakes out


----------



## gunshow86de

technomancer said:


> Everybody was fired and the shop closed so unless it is whatever new facility Parker is supposedly going into I doubt it. The Parker stuff it wasn't clear if it was USA either, was it? Don't remember for sure.



Ah, well, I was thinking perhaps US Music Corp/JAM still owned the building and machinery, but they've probably sold all that off by now.


----------



## narad

KnightBrolaire said:


> Keith said tosin's sig is not being made by schecter.



I see. Is this a semantics thing, like, not the Schecter Tosin Abasi Sig vs. Abasi Guitars (handmade in the USA at the Schecter factory)? That was my #1 guess because that group of people were also making the USA ESPs.


----------



## cip 123

KnightBrolaire said:


> Keith said tosin's sig is not being made by schecter.


Keith said its not a schecter, not that it's not being made by them.

Still could be made by em which was my thought, I think Tosin lives in california no? The shop is there.

However in his latest Instagram video you can see an acoustic hanging in the backgrohnd. So I have no idea now as I don't know who males acoustics as well in the USA.


----------



## cip 123

Edit: double post


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Maybe it's Frank Falbo's company? Dude is close to Abasi nowadays. Plus he builds acoustics.


----------



## metallidude3

It’s Taylor, isn’t it...? We all thought shred and we’ve been duped by all of our metal companies. With the cedar back and the acoustics, in the background, it all makes so much sense!


----------



## metalvince333

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Maybe it's Frank Falbo's company? Dude is close to Abasi nowadays. Plus he builds acoustics.


Got it! Keith commented that his prototype was made by Frank Falbo when someone initially thought it was an Oni. I'm really interested in trying one out. It's not going to be super affordable but who cares? The guy affiliates his name with quality? Good for him. No one would expect Rolls Royce to put out a 20 000$ sedan to please everyone who wants a Rolls.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I wonder if they'll make 2 versions? The super bling-bling neck-thru quilted wonder that Tosin is using now, and a specced-down bolt-on solid-finished one like his Ibanez prototype. 

But that's cool that Frank's doing this with him. Dude loves innovation, so it'll be nice to see what him and Tosin come up with in the future.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Well if falbo is doing the building we shouldn't have to worry about quality, just price.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Falbo's guitars are actually made in the Larrivee factory, and they have some reasonably priced stuff (well, "reasonably" priced). Looking at their prices, the previously mentioned $2k ballpark sounds feasible.


----------



## AxeHappy

I fucking hope it's Falbo making them. I have one of his acoustics and it is a fucking unbelievable guitar.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Falbo's guitars are actually made in the Larrivee factory, and they have some reasonably priced stuff (well, "reasonably" priced). Looking at their prices, the previously mentioned $2k ballpark sounds feasible.


This is actually inaccurate. A couple of years ago Frank asked me to move out to California and do his finish for him, he was building his own shop. I had to turn him down unfortunately, but he definitely has his own shop, with some pretty nice tools to go with it.


----------



## gunshow86de

Falbo actually seems plausible, I believe he works for Fishman? So that would be the obvious connection.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

ElysianGuitars said:


> This is actually inaccurate. A couple of years ago Frank asked me to move out to California and do his finish for him, he was building his own shop. I had to turn him down unfortunately, but he definitely has his own shop, with some pretty nice tools to go with it.



Then someone should tell him to update his webpage.

http://www.falboguitars.com/overview


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunshow86de said:


> Falbo actually seems plausible, I believe he works for Fishman? So that would be the obvious connection.



He's the one who designed the Fluence pickups. Probably the main reason he went to Fablo.



Grand Moff Tim said:


> Then someone should tell him to update his webpage.
> 
> http://www.falboguitars.com/overview



That description seems weird as fuck. There's no mention of them being built by Larrivee (built in the Fablo Guitars factory), yet he brings up the Larrivee factory.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Looks like someone actually let him know, because it's changed now, haha.

I stand corrected!

That does sortof make price a touch more worrisome, though, because Falbo's stuff is a fair bit more expensive than some of Larrivee's.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Looks like someone actually let him know, because it's changed now, haha.
> 
> I stand corrected!
> 
> That does sortof make price a touch more worrisome, though, because Falbo's stuff is a fair bit more expensive than some of Larrivee's.


I let him know


----------



## theicon2125

The Abasi guitars Instagram posted a video of CNC cutting a basswood body. And said the guitars will be available in American Basswood "among other things". Hopefully this means there will be some more affordable models. People on the comments are throwing around 3K and nobody told them they were wrong so I'm not too hopeful.


----------



## narad

theicon2125 said:


> The Abasi guitars Instagram posted a video of CNC cutting a basswood body. And said the guitars will be available in American Basswood "among other things". Hopefully this means there will be some more affordable models. People on the comments are throwing around 3K and nobody told them they were wrong so I'm not too hopeful.



More affordable than basswood?


----------



## theicon2125

narad said:


> More affordable than basswood?


Even though basswood is generally pretty cheap there are still pretty expensive guitars made from it (Misha's sig). I'm just hoping the basswood version is affordable.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdDuwcpgbzI/


----------



## Kyle Jordan

narad said:


> More affordable than basswood?



Poplar (pun intended) pops in to my mind. Gibson and Heritage use it in part on their semi-hollowbody guitars if I'm correct. The center section as opposed to the sides, backs, and tops I think. Jackson also used to make several USA and Import models with Poplar.

Poplar for opaque finishes could keep costs down with maple as the neck material. Might be able to use multi-laminate necks with bolt on joints.

Someone above mentioned Washburn and it made me think about something. The heel shape of the guitar in the IG vids is reminiscent of the heel on the Nuno Bettencourt models with the Stephen's Extended Cutaway.


----------



## narad

Kyle Jordan said:


> Poplar (pun intended) pops in to my mind. Gibson and Heritage use it in part on their semi-hollowbody guitars if I'm correct. The center section as opposed to the sides, backs, and tops I think. Jackson also used to make several USA and Import models with Poplar.
> 
> Poplar for opaque finishes could keep costs down with maple as the neck material. Might be able to use multi-laminate necks with bolt on joints.



Eh, having played around with poplar in shop class, I am not going to buy a poplar guitar regardless of price point. I don't know about Gibson/Heritage, but actual 335s and the like don't use poplar anywhere. And a poplar + maple combo would cause severe neck dive.



Kyle Jordan said:


> Someone above mentioned Washburn and it made me think about something. The heel shape of the guitar in the IG vids is reminiscent of the heel on the Nuno Bettencourt models with the Stephen's Extended Cutaway.



If you're mentioning that as evidence that it might be built at Washburn, the neck heel had already been designed at Ibanez.


----------



## StevenC

The bolt on versions on the Ibanez don't look anything like a Stephen's Extended Cutaway, and I don't see much point of that cutaway otherwise. Beyond that, the set neck just looks like a set neck like everyone does them.


----------



## Lemons

narad said:


> Eh, having played around with poplar in shop class, I am not going to buy a poplar guitar regardless of price point. I don't know about Gibson/Heritage, but actual 335s and the like don't use poplar anywhere.



Poplar is used in laminate tops and backs for 335's in a maple/poplar/maple sandwich.

On a production scale (even a small customshop) using one of the "standard" woods over another isn't going to have a significant impact on the price-point anyway.


----------



## narad

Lemons said:


> Poplar is used in laminate tops and backs for 335's in a maple/poplar/maple sandwich.



Ah, fair point -- I wish I didn't phrase it like that! But poplar as a laminate layer is still far different from suggesting a 1" thick (or whatever) actual body of poplar.


----------



## Randy

Kyle Jordan said:


> Poplar (pun intended) pops in to my mind. Gibson and Heritage use it in part on their semi-hollowbody guitars if I'm correct. The center section as opposed to the sides, backs, and tops I think. Jackson also used to make several USA and Import models with Poplar.





narad said:


> Eh, having played around with poplar in shop class, I am not going to buy a poplar guitar regardless of price point. I don't know about Gibson/Heritage, but actual 335s and the like don't use poplar anywhere. And a poplar + maple combo would cause severe neck dive..



FWIW, both my Parker Fly Deluxes are poplar body w/ basswood neck, despite being fairly expensive list/original sale price.


----------



## Lemons

narad said:


> Ah, fair point -- I wish I didn't phrase it like that! But poplar as a laminate layer is still far different from suggesting a 1" thick (or whatever) actual body of poplar.



I understood what you meant, I guess I was just being needlessly picky with the details. 



Randy said:


> FWIW, both my Parker Fly Deluxes are poplar body w/ basswood neck, despite being fairly expensive list/original sale price.



I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the wood selection doesn't have as much to do with pricing as the carbon fibre wrap and proprietary hardware does.


----------



## marcwormjim

Don’t forget the pizza oven.


----------



## Andromalia

Seems like he's still with Ibanez for now.


----------



## Randy

Lemons said:


> I'm gonna go ahead and guess that the wood selection doesn't have as much to do with pricing as the carbon fibre wrap and proprietary hardware does.



Point well taken, I'm just saying that lumber species doesn't necessarily dictate the price of the guitar and that poplar is a viable tonewood.


----------



## QuantumCybin

Andromalia said:


> Seems like he's still with Ibanez for now.





I think that was already posted in here and it’s confirmed that video was taken over a month ago


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

QuantumCybin said:


> I think that was already posted in here and it’s confirmed that video was taken over a month ago



Yup. Back in late November. He wasn't spotted with the guitar until about... a couple of weeks ago in early December.


----------



## Andromalia

Well video was published today, sorry if it's old news ^^


----------



## cip 123

Thats the full video, some really good shots of the design.


----------



## A-Branger

also shows the back of the guitars, specially the grey one, The one we all were wondering about the gap on the neck pocket, now you can see why it was there, due to the bolt on design and how the neck shape didnt follow the upper horn all the way in, and prob doesnt touch the boddy till the end of the neck. Almost like if they took a standard guitar neck and bolted there, no real though on merging the shape with the upper body "horn"


----------



## gunshow86de

Andromalia said:


> Well video was published today, sorry if it's old news ^^



You mean you aren't signed up for PG Perks? 

The full video has been up, but private/unlisted since the 20th.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdL-2-fALbd/ 
Cncing the control cav for the fluence battery pack


----------



## SDMFVan

Here's the scoop: https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/to...s-usa-falbo-animals-as-leaders-extended-range


----------



## Lemonbaby

SDMFVan said:


> Here's the scoop: https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/to...s-usa-falbo-animals-as-leaders-extended-range


Yeah - six and seven strings coming as well... 

... although 3200 USD ain't cheap. Usually that translates to the same number in Euros.


----------



## diagrammatiks

also maybe a headless version.
man i'd pay 3k for the headless version of this thing.


----------



## BigViolin

My Namm gas could power small cities.


----------



## Albake21

3K.... welp I'm out. I figured they would be a lot, but I had hoped they would make either a cheaper model or just be all around cheaper.


----------



## musicaldeath

If it is available in a headless design, then it pretty much fulfills what I wanted to order in a custom guitar. I may finally pull the trigger on one next year. I want to wait though. I tend to feel the same towards new guitar product companies the same way as I feel towards EA Games. I'll wait until the reviews come out so I know whether or not my money is going to be wasted.


----------



## narad

Albake21 said:


> 3K.... welp I'm out. I figured they would be a lot, but I had hoped they would make either a cheaper model or just be all around cheaper.



I'm sure there'll be some Chinese knock offs.


----------



## VigilSerus

SDMFVan said:


> Here's the scoop: https://www.guitarworld.com/gear/to...s-usa-falbo-animals-as-leaders-extended-range



Hilarious, people worried that it would be sent to some cheap manufacturer; ends up being built by Frank Falbo himself.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

So I seriously regret moving my Strandberg #49 and KxK Scale8, both of which I had built with some sentimentality attached. Been looking to do one more large custom and get out of the game at least for a few years, and this is looking more and more like it. Hope they start taking orders soon, I can only be erect for SO long man.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Hmm 3k and headless... i'm kind of interested, just depends on scale lengths.


----------



## jwade

If they end up offering a nice mahogany body/neck version in a 7, oh man.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

ShadowsfeaR said:


> Hilarious, people worried that it would be sent to some cheap manufacturer; ends up being built by Frank Falbo himself.



Aaaay I was right. 

I imagine they'll start off pricey, but I'm curious to see if they'll do some stripped-down "studio" models that'll be cheaper. With solid finishes, bolt on necks, less premium woods, no fanned frets, etc etc.


----------



## Lemonbaby

ShadowsfeaR said:


> Hilarious, people worried that it would be sent to some cheap manufacturer; ends up being built by Frank Falbo himself.


Falbo did the prototype. Mass production is at a guitar company located in California...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Lemonbaby said:


> Falbo did the prototype. Mass production is at a guitar company located in California...



Frank Fablo's guitar factory, apparently.


----------



## Lemonbaby

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Frank Fablo's guitar factory, apparently.


I beg to differ. Falbo has a custom shop for high-end guitars in limited volumes. He's saying “[...] a very capable U.S. shop will be able to fulfill orders and meet demand, no matter how big it scales." 
“The shop is very close to us [_in Southern California_], so we don’t have to deal with distance or prototypes being mailed to us."


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Lemonbaby said:


> I beg to differ. Falbo has a custom shop for high-end guitars in limited volumes. He's saying “[...] a very capable U.S. shop will be able to fulfill orders and meet demand, no matter how big it scales."
> “The shop is very close to us [_in Southern California_], so we don’t have to deal with distance or prototypes being mailed to us."


It's Frank's shop, Frank is making them. The 2nd quote is from Alt, not Frank, and it's regarding the shop's location to Tosin.


----------



## Zado

Is this considered a nice thing nowadays?


----------



## narad

Zado said:


> Is this considered a nice thing nowadays?



"Hey this is Jeff coming at you from Kiesel Guitars Abasi Guitars Carvin Guitars..."


----------



## StevenC

Zado said:


> Is this considered a nice thing nowadays?


Not in that finish. But if it were less Kiesel, more anything else, then I'd be down. The article says that's an option.


----------



## Lemonbaby

ElysianGuitars said:


> It's Frank's shop, Frank is making them. The 2nd quote is from Alt, not Frank, and it's regarding the shop's location to Tosin.


I see, totally misread that. Didn't know he can produce on that scale...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Zado said:


> Is this considered a nice thing nowadays?


 i like the bevel on top but that bit on the lower horn tweaks me out hardcore. It doesn't follow the contours at all. If they had done a bevel that follows the lower contour all the way to the horn it would balance the top bevel (visually speaking).


----------



## narad

ElysianGuitars said:


> It's Frank's shop, Frank is making them. The 2nd quote is from Alt, not Frank, and it's regarding the shop's location to Tosin.



Is it just Frank making them or is it a team?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

narad said:


> Is it just Frank making them or is it a team?


I'm not sure the specifics of his operation, haven't asked, but I believe it's more than just Frank.


----------



## Matt08642

I like how it's been 5 hours since we got any more info other than the sign up page and rumors, and people are already starting with the "Damn, I really hope they make a 7 string version of this in a totally different color with no bevels and different hardware!"


----------



## jephjacques

sevenstring.org gonna sevenstring.org


----------



## VigilSerus

Matt08642 said:


> I like how it's been 5 hours since we got any more info other than the sign up page and rumors, and people are already starting with the "Damn, I really hope they make a 7 string version of this in a totally different color with no bevels and different hardware!"



"It’s evolved into a different instrument than Tosin’s earlier prototypes, and it offers even more options," Falbo added. "In this case, it’s six-string, seven-string, eight-string, multi-scale or straight—there are different color options and different wood options. There will be some set models, but we'll have the ability to add custom features if customers want them.”


----------



## sezna

$3200?? what happened to “cheaper than the TAM”?? agh...


----------



## sezna

narad said:


> I'm sure there'll be some Chinese knock offs.


Look what I found on AliExpress
http://s.aliexpress.com/3Azy6Fr6


----------



## gunshow86de

sezna said:


> $3200?? what happened to “cheaper than the TAM”?? agh...



I mean, technically that is cheaper than the TAM100. If I remember correctly, the MAP on those was $3,999.99.


----------



## Frostbite

gunshow86de said:


> I mean, technically that is cheaper than the TAM100. If I remember correctly, the MAP on those was $3,999.99.


It's technically the correct. The best kind of correct!


----------



## A-Branger

jephjacques said:


> sevenstring.org gonna sevenstring.org


just get an used prestige


----------



## Hollowway

I'm just excited about having a guitar made primarily in an 8 string, and then scaled to 6s and 7s, rather than the other way around. I hope to be able to get one out of the gates, but it might take a little saving on my part. And I still want to get an idea of what people were talking about wrt the narrower string spacing. Between this and Joe B.'s Dark Matter guitars, those of us who are into non-traditional shapes are in business!


----------



## Avedas

Well this seems like it could be a better option compared to whatever Ibanez would have put out under Tosin's name. Maybe I'll pick one up in a couple years if their reputation holds up.


----------



## frank falbo

musicaldeath said:


> If it is available in a headless design, then it pretty much fulfills what I wanted to order in a custom guitar. I may finally pull the trigger on one next year. I want to wait though. I tend to feel the same towards new guitar product companies the same way as I feel towards EA Games. I'll wait until the reviews come out so I know whether or not my money is going to be wasted.



...and not be the guy, years from now, who has like...the 2nd or 3rd headless serial number....


----------



## A-Branger

I wonder if these would be like "production" build/runs. Or you could choose the finish/specs like standard/multisclae, pickups, finish, number of strings, woods

like a semi-custom shop, Kiesel/Aristides kinda thing


----------



## lilstryer

I wonder if Tosin would ever put in a tremolo for the model! Man, that would be sick.


----------



## Hollowway

lilstryer said:


> I wonder if Tosin would ever put in a tremolo for the model! Man, that would be sick.



I’d doubt it, as it’s not his style. But I’d love to see something with an 8 string Floyd (or some other fulcrum style double locking option) on it. Currently only Agiles and Hellraisers are an option.


----------



## noise in my mind

Made in CA, profit margins are going to be very tough. A lot of businesses are leaving CA for this reason.


----------



## Vyn

Someone at Ibanez Australia must have missed the memo, they just rep'ed him on their Instagram.


----------



## cardinal

Hollowway said:


> I’d doubt it, as it’s not his style. But I’d love to see something with an 8 string Floyd (or some other fulcrum style double locking option) on it. Currently only Agiles and Hellraisers are an option.



+1. 8-strings need Floyd love too.


----------



## r33per

Lemonbaby said:


> Yeah - six and seven strings coming as well...
> 
> ... although 3200 USD ain't cheap. Usually that translates to the same number in Euros.


And Pounds Sterling.


----------



## musicaldeath

frank falbo said:


> ...and not be the guy, years from now, who has like...the 2nd or 3rd headless serial number....



I just prefer to play it safe when it comes to guitars. I have bought 2 in the last 7 years (new one is getting NGD this weekend). I just tend to sit on new guitars/amps etc for a while before I make a move on them.

That being said, I am familiar with your acoustic guitars and they are amazing instruments, I do not doubt that Abasi Guitars will also be amazing.

-Edited to not sound like a d*ck.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

musicaldeath said:


> That doesn't bother me, not the reason I would buy one anyway. I'd rather wait and get a more refined instrument, wait for the hype to die off and see what is left. If it is a good product, great. If not, then no worries.
> 
> To be clear, I am not expecting Abasi Guitars to be anything short of great - I have just been around here long enough and seen enough members get burned by various companies that I will wait and see. I also don't buy guitars very often (bought two in the last 7 years - NGD coming for the new one). So I play it safe and wait for something I really like.


Frank is one of the best in the business, just a brilliant guy all around, and one of the nicest people I'm happy to call a friend. I've got complete faith in him with this.


----------



## musicaldeath

ElysianGuitars said:


> Frank is one of the best in the business, just a brilliant guy all around, and one of the nicest people I'm happy to call a friend. I've got complete faith in him with this.



Edited my previous post a bit. I have played one of his acoustics - my Grandfather has one and it is a fantastic instrument. I just mean on my part, I move slow on these purchases. The last few times I jumped in first and/or pre-ordered (looking at EA...) it was a waste of money. Not saying this would be, but I tend not to get in on the ground floor too often.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Matt08642 said:


> I like how it's been 5 hours since we got any more info other than the sign up page and rumors, and people are already starting with the "Damn, I really hope they make a 7 string version of this in a totally different color with no bevels and different hardware!"



To be fair, this is different to normal as it's a guitar company and not just a sig guitar. If all they offer is one variant, then it'd be pretty foolish to start a company. Hopefully there is a decent amount of variety. Even just offering six and seven string variants would be neat.


----------



## blacai

Hollowway said:


> I’d doubt it, as it’s not his style. But I’d love to see something with an 8 string Floyd (or some other fulcrum style double locking option) on it. Currently only Agiles and Hellraisers are an option.


You can spend +5k€ in the Caparison apple horn 8


----------



## Matt08642

musicaldeath said:


> I just prefer to play it safe when it comes to guitars. I have bought 2 in the last 7 years (new one is getting NGD this weekend). I just tend to sit on new guitars/amps etc for a while before I make a move on them.
> 
> That being said, I am familiar with your acoustic guitars and they are amazing instruments, I do not doubt that Abasi Guitars will also be amazing.
> 
> -Edited to not sound like a d*ck.



I inadvertently did this because I was just broke as a kid so couldn't hop on every trend, but it worries me how meme'd to death almost every aspect of guitar has become with fad stuff. People just want to get their hands on new stuff cause it's fun, but often don't wait and see or shop around for better stuff.

I know they sound good, but I am waiting on the Fishman meme to play out. We've seen this before, when some new brand of something (strings, pickups, bridges, whatever) sweeps all the online forums and no one has anything bad to say, then a few years later it's all irrelevant in the wake of the new meme. This can be seen first hand on here, people selling their EMG 81/85 sets a few years back for 57/66, or hopping to SD Blackouts, now they're going to Fishman. For passives it was always "Selling my x to get some Bareknuckles" then a few months later jumping ship from BKP to something (currently Fishman).

At least these forums make gear affordable cause you almost never have to buy anything new, just look in the FS section lmao


----------



## ixlramp

At least this version actually has connection between the upper body and the neck, the Ibanez version didn't even have bolts there.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Matt08642 said:


> I inadvertently did this because I was just broke as a kid so couldn't hop on every trend, but it worries me how meme'd to death almost every aspect of guitar has become with fad stuff. People just want to get their hands on new stuff cause it's fun, but often don't wait and see or shop around for better stuff.
> 
> I know they sound good, but I am waiting on the Fishman meme to play out. We've seen this before, when some new brand of something (strings, pickups, bridges, whatever) sweeps all the online forums and no one has anything bad to say, then a few years later it's all irrelevant in the wake of the new meme. This can be seen first hand on here, people selling their EMG 81/85 sets a few years back for 57/66, or hopping to SD Blackouts, now they're going to Fishman. For passives it was always "Selling my x to get some Bareknuckles" then a few months later jumping ship from BKP to something (currently Fishman).
> 
> At least these forums make gear affordable cause you almost never have to buy anything new, just look in the FS section lmao


Gearwhores gonna gearwhore yo


----------



## Jonathan20022

Matt08642 said:


> I inadvertently did this because I was just broke as a kid so couldn't hop on every trend, but it worries me how meme'd to death almost every aspect of guitar has become with fad stuff. People just want to get their hands on new stuff cause it's fun, but often don't wait and see or shop around for better stuff.
> 
> I know they sound good, but I am waiting on the Fishman meme to play out. We've seen this before, when some new brand of something (strings, pickups, bridges, whatever) sweeps all the online forums and no one has anything bad to say, then a few years later it's all irrelevant in the wake of the new meme. This can be seen first hand on here, people selling their EMG 81/85 sets a few years back for 57/66, or hopping to SD Blackouts, now they're going to Fishman. For passives it was always "Selling my x to get some Bareknuckles" then a few months later jumping ship from BKP to something (currently Fishman).
> 
> At least these forums make gear affordable cause you almost never have to buy anything new, just look in the FS section lmao



Just because the audience is fickle doesn't mean the product is. But I can definitely feel how annoying that is, especially because I got caught up with it early on in my gear lifetime.

I remember the Blackhawk rage, and then the Juggernauts came out and everyone jumped ship the second they came out. I actually made a comment on here at some point where Misha really outlined how much he enjoyed those. And it isn't even what he meant, but people have this nature of assuming that the previous entry or preferred product is somehow inferior to the newer one.

In some cases products can be that, but when you're in the subjective realm of pickups and tone preference it doesn't apply IMO. I still have like 3 pairs of Blackhawks waiting for a guitar to install them in, but I enjoy those every bit as I remembered when I had first gotten a pair. But I also have Dimarzio Gravity Storms and a custom wound set that kill, Suhr SSH+/SSV in a couple of guitars, BKP Nailbombs, and Blackwater Neodymium Moderns. All useful and unique in their own way for different situations. 

That being said the Fishman pickups are actually pretty amazing, and deliver on what they set out to do. Does that mean everyone should just switch to them? No not really, you might enjoy them more but I doubt anyone here has tried every single Dimarzio/SD/Bareknuckle/Fishman/etc and can 100% say that it is their be all end all pickup. Just try them and if you like them good, and if not then that's fine as well.

That also is definitely a good point, having so many people bandwagon makes the used market flourish so every can save a few bucks down the line


----------



## marcwormjim

Matt08642 said:


> At least these forums make gear affordable cause you almost never have to buy anything new, just look in the FS section lmao



All the chocolate and Cheetos dust fingerprints on “like new, barely played, awesome perfect only selling toward custom build” gear gets old after a while, though.


----------



## Matt08642

marcwormjim said:


> All the chocolate and Cheetos dust fingerprints on “like new, barely played, awesome perfect only selling toward custom build” gear gets old after a while, though.



I mean, you could just _not_ get the filthy ones lol.

That being said, I got a 7620 used for $400 and just cleaned the grime off, and it plays like factory new.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

marcwormjim said:


> All the chocolate and Cheetos dust fingerprints on “like new, barely played, awesome perfect only selling toward custom build” gear gets old after a while, though.



The cynicism and sarcasm that your posts are always drenched is so refreshing, never stop!!!


----------



## marcwormjim

Now you’re speaking my language.


----------



## StevenC

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdWebKFHVaH/

1 please


----------



## Albake21

StevenC said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BdWebKFHVaH/
> 
> 1 please


Is that..... a purple heart fretboard??


----------



## StevenC

Albake21 said:


> Is that..... a purple heart fretboard??


Flamed at that


----------



## KnightBrolaire

StevenC said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BdWebKFHVaH/
> 
> 1 please


I hope that body gets a trans black finish or a purple burst. those would pair so well with a nice purpleheart board.


----------



## marcwormjim

I want to see NGD updates from every owner whose purpleheart boards turned brown. Even if you’re bumping the thread of the guy who sold it to the guy who sold it to you.


----------



## frank falbo

That’s part of the reason it won’t have a purple sunburst finish. But there are plenty of tricks to maintaining the purple in purpleheart, many which defy common thoughts about oxidation and ultraviolet light.


----------



## StevenC

frank falbo said:


> That’s part of the reason it won’t have a purple sunburst finish. But there are plenty of tricks to maintaining the purple in purpleheart, many which defy common thoughts about oxidation and ultraviolet light.


So, uh, what way will it be finished and is it for Tosin or for sale?


----------



## narad

^^ You should send it to Steven -- he's like the Tosin Abasi of Northern Ireland.


----------



## jephjacques

Send it to me. I'm the Tosin Abasi of my home office!


----------



## ImNotAhab

Im Tosin Abasi and so is my wife...


----------



## marcwormjim

Go Tosin yourself.


----------



## jwade

Token Abasi.


----------



## Paul McAleer

Off topic but Tosin Abasi sounds like hot sauce to me...


----------



## StevenC

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdjeQX4gf4d/

Same one from the last picture, plus another 8 and a 6 trem, and some more fretboard options.


----------



## theicon2125

https://www.instagram.com/p/BdjRKcjnJp6/?taken-by=abasiguitars

Looks like there will be a Floyd model. Also looks like a 6 string.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

I wonder how flexible the fans will be. A 6 with a 25"-24" with that grey-ish finish would be really hard to pass up.


----------



## Jonathan20022

I'd be down for another 8 or a Floyd 6, interested to play these at NAMM.


----------



## Malkav

Matt08642 said:


> I know they sound good, but I am waiting on the Fishman meme to play out. We've seen this before, when some new brand of something (strings, pickups, bridges, whatever) sweeps all the online forums and no one has anything bad to say, then a few years later it's all irrelevant in the wake of the new meme.



I have Fluence Moderns in my .Strandberg* Prog 7 and I have tons of bad things to say about them  But ultimately they're just subjective things that boil down to me not really liking actives


----------



## StevenC

To be honest I've hated the tone in all the videos I've seen of Tosin since he switched to Fishman.

However, I loved his Lace Strandberg tone in videos but swapped my X-bars for M8s because I hated them so much.


----------



## jwade

I can't remember, did Tosin switch to Fishman before or after the most recent album? I strongly dislike a lot of the tones on that album (mostly the cleanish stuff), but that could be an amp/mixing/mastering thing.


----------



## Albake21

jwade said:


> I can't remember, did Tosin switch to Fishman before or after the most recent album? I strongly dislike a lot of the tones on that album (mostly the cleanish stuff), but that could be an amp/mixing/mastering thing.


I'm pretty positive he was playing his prototype Fishman's on the album. Personally I think it's the best and tightest tone yet. Although I'm pretty sure he uses multiple guitars when recording albums.


----------



## frank falbo

Last album was all Duncans, pre-Fishman.


----------



## jwade

Ah there we go, makes sense. Not a SD fan most of the time.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Man, I never thought Tosin had good tone in the first place. When I think of over-processed digital tone, AAL's rhythm tone is what comes to mind.


----------



## cardinal

Floyd Rose 8 string would be pretty cool...


----------



## StevenC

I was talking about his tone live and in clinics/demos. There was one in particular where he played his prototype and a TAM10, and I just thought the Fishmans sounded awful in comparison.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

StevenC said:


> I was talking about his tone live and in clinics/demos. There was one in particular where he played his prototype and a TAM10, and I just thought the Fishmans sounded awful in comparison.



Sound recording in clinics may not be of highest quality, have you seen this one?


----------



## WafWaffle

I think Fluence just for one reason : Versatility...

This is why I am really planning to get them installed one day on my Agile 827 

BTW this videos kills me... Tosin, what a true musician...


----------



## diagrammatiks

StevenC said:


> I was talking about his tone live and in clinics/demos. There was one in particular where he played his prototype and a TAM10, and I just thought the Fishmans sounded awful in comparison.



i thought the tam10 sounded like wet ass in that comparison video.


----------



## StevenC

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Sound recording in clinics may not be of highest quality, have you seen this one?



Hadn't seen that video before, but honestly in most of those I preferred the passives, and the rest of the time I thought either both sounded bad or the Fluences were a bit better.

As I said, I liked all his videos with X-Bars but hated my own, so maybe I'd love the Fluences in my own guitar.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

I've seen people saying they want to retrack their album with the Fishmans, I would love to hear both recordings as it's not like guitar tone is hitting new heights of awesome with these new pickups, artists that sound good still sound good lol.


----------



## cip 123

Dineley said:


> I've seen people saying they want to retrack their album with the Fishmans, I would love to hear both recordings as it's not like guitar tone is hitting new heights of awesome with these new pickups, artists that sound good still sound good lol.




I retracked my EP with Fishmans, my singer who is mixing it got the tracks and said the Fishmans fixed his mix. Note I originally tracked my EP with Tosin's Dimarzio's which were my favourite pickups.

There's a clip of the Deftones Engineer saying that when Stephan got Fishmans it's like they were already mastered. Obviously they're trying to sell them but, I'm sticking by them. They're just better imo.


----------



## A-Branger

have a look at this fishman pickup shootout, including Tosin's set


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

diagrammatiks said:


> i thought the tam10 sounded like wet ass in that comparison video.



Yeah, the TAM sounded harsh as all hell. The TAM was able to pull off that hi-fi sound without sounding harsh like the DiMarzios or even Lace Bars I've heard.
The Aristides sounded crazy smooth. Not the sound I go for, but a cool sound.


----------



## Vyn

I think the main differences are that the volume of the coil split isn't reduced on the clean stuff and there's less harshness when playing harder. The passives all sounded better for distortion to me IMO.


----------



## A-Branger

also the fishmans seem to have a bit of compression on them compared to the passive samples. Easy to tell on the clean sounds.

Something Tosin has mention in the past that he likes


----------



## jwade

I wish there was someone out there doing reviews/comparison vids through a Marshall or Orange amp or something. I really don't care for the kemper/axe fx type modelling stuff.


----------



## diagrammatiks

jwade said:


> I wish there was someone out there doing reviews/comparison vids through a Marshall or Orange amp or something. I really don't care for the kemper/axe fx type modelling stuff.



tosin's playing through the morgan.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jwade said:


> I wish there was someone out there doing reviews/comparison vids through a Marshall or Orange amp or something. I really don't care for the kemper/axe fx type modelling stuff.


why? they're both pretty comparable to whatever they're modeling when profiled well.


----------



## jwade

I didn't see the video of Tosin doing comparisons, that's pretty awesome. The Fishmans definitely sound incredible clean. Kind of a bummer that the TAM sounded like it had really crap strings on, I always love the Ionizers with gain, but clean they sounded...pretty weak/boring.


----------



## odibrom

KnightBrolaire said:


> why? they're both pretty comparable to whatever they're modeling when profiled well.



*WHEN PROFILED WELL* being the key words here... it is a very subjective area from all perspectives.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

odibrom said:


> *WHEN PROFILED WELL* being the key words here... it is a very subjective area from all perspectives.



Big Marshall and Orange fan here. I have a Kemper and there are so many scary good profiles available right now. Marshall is a given but there's no shortage of Orange.


----------



## lurè

A-Branger said:


> also the fishmans seem to have a bit of compression on them compared to the passive samples. Easy to tell on the clean sounds.
> 
> Something Tosin has mention in the past that he likes



In my opinion clean sound is where the Fishmans shine.
I can't hear much of a difference with other pickups on high gain territories, but on clean settings they're really amazing.


----------



## xzacx

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Aristides sounded crazy smooth. Not the sound I go for, but a cool sound.



I thought this sounded by far the best - I didn't care for the other tones much at all.


----------



## frank falbo

Ladies and Gentlemen: NEW Instagram account: *abasiinstruments 
*
“But Frank, if the existing one was called Abasi Guitars, and this one is called Abasi Instruments, does the new name imply that someday in the future, there will be more than just guitars?”

I’m sorry I’m not at liberty to answer that question at this time.


----------



## bostjan

"But Frank, why would you answer your own question with a non-answer?"


----------



## Lemonbaby

Totally didn't see those Abasi Euphoniums and Bassoons coming. Go Tosin!


----------



## frank falbo

Wait till you see the mandolins #2019worlddomination


----------



## KnightBrolaire

nothing screams progressive metal like a custom djembe or sitar. # djembedjent2018


----------



## bostjan

frank falbo said:


> Wait till you see the mandolins #2019worlddomination


Tosin Abasi, best shred metal mandolinist since DMAG.  I keed.


----------



## jemfloral

KnightBrolaire said:


> nothing screams progressive metal like a custom djembe or sitar. # djembedjent2018



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jemfloral said:


> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Yeah i've seen it, that's why i joked about the sitar


----------



## BigViolin

How long post Namm will guitars be available for order?


----------



## LordCashew

frank falbo said:


> Wait till you see the mandolins



Going back to the OG 8-string...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I can't wait for a mandocello from abasi instruments. definitely going to be my next 8 string


----------



## Shoeless_jose

djidjgederidoo


----------



## jemfloral

KnightBrolaire said:


> I can't wait for a mandocello from abasi instruments. definitely going to be my next 8 string



Do it!


----------



## StevenC

https://www.instagram.com/p/BeKtILAjHKl/

What looks to be a 7 string headless, with what looks to be Strandberg style modular nuts.


----------



## DudeManBrother

It’s a body shape that definitely supports a headless design. It probably looks considerably better than its headstock’d counterpart


----------



## Lorcan Ward

It will definitely look better headless.


----------



## Jonathan20022

If that is headless I am totally in, there is also no zero fret which I am a huge supporter of. Really excited to try these out.


----------



## jephjacques

I'm ordering mine with half the tuners on a half-headstock and the other half on the body just to troll people


----------



## StevenC




----------



## Kyle Jordan

^It’s pretty! It’s SO pretty!!


----------



## sezna

Is anyone planning on buying one of these?


----------



## StevenC

sezna said:


> Is anyone planning on buying one of these?


Depends how the headless version turns out for me. If they do a baritone hybrid version, yes. Otherwise I'm still on the fence.


----------



## ramses

sezna said:


> Is anyone planning on buying one of these?



Buying what? They haven't shown a single finished instrument yet.

Very curious though


----------



## DudeManBrother

sezna said:


> Is anyone planning on buying one of these?


If they do a headless 7 I'll give it some serious consideration. If it's in the $3200 and up range I'd probably still go Padalka Saturn, but I'm definitely interested to see some completed builds.


----------



## Albake21

sezna said:


> Is anyone planning on buying one of these?


I was very curious until I found out they would be like $3k+ so I'm out. I'll for sure continue to follow them though.


----------



## Avedas

sezna said:


> Is anyone planning on buying one of these?


At those prices, no way unless I moved to the US. Markup and import costs are going to be far too insane.


----------



## Vyn

Avedas said:


> At those prices, no way unless I moved to the US. Markup and import costs are going to be far too insane.



Pretty much the same here. It'll be $4500-$5000USD by the time it gets into Australia and for that money you can get pretty much any CS you like.


----------



## lilstryer

Albake21 said:


> I was very curious until I found out they would be like $3k+ so I'm out. I'll for sure continue to follow them though.



oh? Where did you get that figure from?


----------



## Hollowway

I most certainly will get one. But probably used, and in a few years. I just can't rationalize spending that much. Plus, I want to see an actual completed instrument, and have someone review it. I think the design is cool, but I've been down this road, with a new company making guitars, before. Not to be pessimistic, but I have to be prudent.


----------



## AxeHappy

Absolutely considering one. Falbo makes crazy good guitars and I like the design!


----------



## sezna

lilstryer said:


> oh? Where did you get that figure from?


someone posted an article earlier where Tosin gave more deets. $3k ish for starting prices.


----------



## lilstryer

sezna said:


> someone posted an article earlier where Tosin gave more deets. $3k ish for starting prices.



Oh I see. The only article I could find is the guitarworld article which seems to suggest it will be in the 3k region. I can't seem to find any articles that announced a starting price. That being said, I am definitely looking forward to hearing them soon!


----------



## sezna

lilstryer said:


> Oh I see. The only article I could find is the guitarworld article which seems to suggest it will be in the 3k region. I can't seem to find any articles that announced a starting price. That being said, I am definitely looking forward to hearing them soon!


Perhaps I assumed that part because he probably would want to give starting prices to get people's hopes up. And I can't see any hand made USA guitars from an established luthier and famous artist being much less than that...


----------



## lilstryer

sezna said:


> Perhaps I assumed that part because he probably would want to give starting prices to get people's hopes up. And I can't see any hand made USA guitars from an established luthier and famous artist being much less than that...



Yeah i definitely see where you are coming from. I have been wanting to get myself a new axe (strandberg, suhr modern, aristides) but I can't help but wonder how this new guitar design fares against the rest!


----------



## sezna

lilstryer said:


> Yeah i definitely see where you are coming from. I have been wanting to get myself a new axe (strandberg, suhr modern, aristides) but I can't help but wonder how this new guitar design fares against the rest!


You could order an aliexpress one to feel the body shape lol. But I wouldn't jump on this to be honest. I'm sure it will be great, but I will forever and always be skeptical to give my money to a company for their very first run of guitars. You know he will release more iterations and improve things, and perhaps there will be business hiccups...who knows. 

My personal recommendation would be to get one of those others and come back to these later on when he is more established.

But I'm just a dude on the internet. Also I love Suhr so go get one of those instead. Or buy my Mayones


----------



## lilstryer

sezna said:


> You could order an aliexpress one to feel the body shape lol. But I wouldn't jump on this to be honest. I'm sure it will be great, but I will forever and always be skeptical to give my money to a company for their very first run of guitars. You know he will release more iterations and improve things, and perhaps there will be business hiccups...who knows.
> 
> My personal recommendation would be to get one of those others and come back to these later on when he is more established.
> 
> But I'm just a dude on the internet. Also I love Suhr so go get one of those instead. Or buy my Mayones



Haha yeah I am definitely waiting for NAMM first and see if Suhr releases anything to compete with the new Ibanez AZ series. Or if Aristides finally decides to sell some stock models in other parts of the world! Strandberg has been amazing to me thus far so I am just looking to see if there will be a new Varberg. 

I hope the 6 or 7 string model released by Abasi Guitars comes with a trem!


----------



## Lemonbaby

Unfortunately for us Europeans, US guitars come at prices that just replace EUR for USD. Most of the times even more... 



lilstryer said:


> Haha yeah I am definitely waiting for NAMM first and see if Suhr releases anything to compete with the new Ibanez AZ series.


Also heard rumours that Suhr will start a series of modern strat designs...


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Import Duty, shipping fees and the trouble it takes to get a package out of customs along with their fees have put me off ever buying a guitar outside the EU again. Really looking forward to what models they have ready for NAMM.


----------



## Avedas

Lorcan Ward said:


> Import Duty, shipping fees and the trouble it takes to get a package out of customs along with their fees have put me off ever buying a guitar outside the EU again. Really looking forward to what models they have ready for NAMM.


I don't think I'll ever import a guitar. Just way too expensive. I'm fine with waiting to see what the local shops decide to stock, although I guess that limits me to production models.


----------



## Electric Wizard

lilstryer said:


> Haha yeah I am definitely waiting for NAMM first and see if Suhr releases anything to compete with the new Ibanez AZ series


I feel like they've already preemptively done that three times with the Rasmus line, the modern satins, and the classic pro line.


----------



## sezna

Electric Wizard said:


> I feel like they've already preemptively done that three times with the Rasmus line, the modern satins, and the classic pro line.


<offtopic> I played one of those modern satins at a shop the other day..._they are so good._</offtopic>


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Even a custom, non-discount series, Suhr is only around $600 to $1000 more when evenly spec'd. Not to mention you can grab a mint used Suhr for $2k all day.

Suhr has no need to compete with Ibanez. 

The only folks choosing an Ibanez over a Suhr have never played a Suhr.


----------



## jephjacques

Falbo has a good rep and the guitars look cool to me so I might jump on one depending on what the order window looks like!


----------



## Jonathan20022

MaxOfMetal said:


> Even a custom, non-discount series, Suhr is only around $600 to $1000 more when evenly spec'd. Not to mention you can grab a mint used Suhr for $2k all day.
> 
> Suhr has no need to compete with Ibanez.
> 
> The only folks choosing an Ibanez over a Suhr have never played a Suhr.



100% This.

I'd pick up a used Modern Pro over any of these AZ Ibbies any day.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jonathan20022 said:


> 100% This.
> 
> I'd pick up a used Modern Pro over any of these AZ Ibbies any day.





Though, if these AZ are solid they'd be good for those who just can't afford a Suhr. Not to mention, once they inevitably hit the used market they'll be closer to $1200 to $1500, which is almost "why not" money.


----------



## Albake21

MaxOfMetal said:


> Though, if these AZ are solid they'd be good for those who just can't afford a Suhr. Not to mention, once they inevitably hit the used market they'll be closer to $1200 to $1500, which is almost "why not" money.


I wish I could say $1200 to $1500 is "why not" money...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Albake21 said:


> I wish I could say $1200 to $1500 is "why not" money...



Me too, which is why I said "almost". 

But if they hit about $1k for a Fujigen made, Gotoh hardwared, roasted maple neck/boarded, Duncan equipped, steel fretted guitar I'd HAVE to buy one. That's a lot of guitar for not a lot of money.


----------



## sezna

MaxOfMetal said:


> Me too, which is why I said "almost".
> 
> But if they hit about $1k for a Fujigen made, Gotoh hardwared, roasted maple neck/boarded, Duncan equipped, steel fretted guitar I'd HAVE to buy one. That's a lot of guitar for not a lot of money.



that might be a bit too hopeful....lol


----------



## Andromalia

Aaaaand 2000€. Pass. I'll get a 550 for half the price, thanks.


----------



## jwade

Very curious to see what sort of finish options they end up having, because I'm not inclined towards the Kiesel-like bevel aesthetic. The original prototypes that were one colour really worked well, and I'd be really interested in seeing some solid/transparent one colour headless versions of the shape, more specifically if they start doing bass guitars as well.


----------



## frank falbo

All the solid color and matte/gloss combinations you’ve seen in other prototypes will be available. You’re seeing the “wood forward” photos in part because we know everyone has been looking at only solids and metallics for the past 3 years. So we have To highlight what _else _we can do.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

frank falbo said:


> All the solid color and matte/gloss combinations you’ve seen in other prototypes will be available. You’re seeing the “wood forward” photos in part because we know everyone has been looking at only solids and metallics for the past 3 years. So we have To highlight what _else _we can do.


Will you guys be doing bent/carved tops that cover the bevel as an option?


----------



## Randy

Can't speak for Frank but I'm not so sure how possible a bent arm contour will be with how aggressive that bevel is, so it'd take an extra thick top to accomplish, AFAICT


----------



## guitar4tw

MaxOfMetal said:


> Even a custom, non-discount series, Suhr is only around $600 to $1000 more when evenly spec'd. Not to mention you can grab a mint used Suhr for $2k all day.
> 
> Suhr has no need to compete with Ibanez.
> 
> *The only folks choosing an Ibanez over a Suhr have never played a Suhr.*


Except Rick Graham, who was with Suhr but went back to Ibanez guitars. 

But yeah, Suhr and Ibanez does not really compete for the same market.


----------



## Lemonbaby

https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/store


----------



## Albake21

Lemonbaby said:


> https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/store


Okay so not as bad as I thought it would be, but still WAY out of my budget.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Nothing says "we got this" more than a couple pictures of a single complete guitar and rough sketches with $3k+ "buy now" buttons. I'm sold.


----------



## jephjacques

Welp, I sent them an inquiry. Those lead times for "stock" instruments are a lot better than I was expecting!


----------



## Lemonbaby

MaxOfMetal said:


> Nothing says "we got this" more than a couple pictures of a single complete guitar and rough sketches with $3k+ "buy now" buttons. I'm sold.


Brian: "There's no pleasing some people." Ex-Leper: "That's what Jesus said." 

Everybody was speculating on prices and complaining that we don't get more info. Now you see the available models and options including prices. Still not enough because pictures are missing, everything's too expensive. Once they complete the store with pictures, the colors are all wrong, still too expensive, "No aged Nickel hardware", "Why can't we have purple/yellow tiger stripes"...


----------



## narad

Lemonbaby said:


> Brian: "There's no pleasing some people." Ex-Leper: "That's what Jesus said."
> 
> Everybody was speculating on prices and complaining that we don't get more info. Now you see the available models and options including prices. Still not enough because pictures are missing, everything's too expensive. Once they complete the store with pictures, the colors are all wrong, still too expensive, "No aged Nickel hardware", "Why can't we have purple/yellow tiger stripes"...



I think the point was that there's a "buy now" that's currently associated with some partially carved wood blocks. You know, maybe get your ducks in a row before asking used car prices for something you've barely built a single instance of.

And forgive me if I'm wrong here, but aren't they holding Ibanez-built versions in the 2 pics on the front page?


----------



## frank falbo

If you’re following the social media you’re seeing the build shots. Everything is happening in real-time. The fact that it’s a quasi-custom order business model means that from day 1 we aren’t going to be sitting on a warehouse full of black guitars. That’s what you get with the “artist puts their name on a factory guitar” situation. This is different.


----------



## lilstryer

frank falbo said:


> If you’re following the social media you’re seeing the build shots. Everything is happening in real-time. The fact that it’s a quasi-custom order business model means that from day 1 we aren’t going to be sitting on a warehouse full of black guitars. That’s what you get with the “artist puts their name on a factory guitar” situation. This is different.


 

Any word on the trem models, frank?


----------



## Lemonbaby

narad said:


> I think the point was that there's a "buy now" that's currently associated with some partially carved wood blocks. You know, maybe get your ducks in a row before asking used car prices for something you've barely built a single instance of.


Calm down, little snowflake. Why so angry? Maybe other people have less problems to order a $3k guitar without seeing it before? Maybe some even see early runs at NAMM and want to order one? In any case: you're free not to order. Go figure...


----------



## narad

Lemonbaby said:


> Calm down, little snowflake. Why so angry? Maybe other people have less problems to order a $3k guitar without seeing it before? Maybe some even see early runs at NAMM and want to order one? In any case: you're free not to order. Go figure...



The Germans have adopted alt-right lingo? This isn't going to end well...


----------



## lurè

Pictures are not a big deal since they practically have just one model which is the one we all have seen, just a matter of number of strings.
In case they'll come up with a double neck 12 string guitar as a standard model pictures will be required.


----------



## StevenC

Lemonbaby said:


> Calm down, little snowflake. Why so angry? Maybe other people have less problems to order a $3k guitar without seeing it before? Maybe some even see early runs at NAMM and want to order one? In any case: you're free not to order. Go figure...


Isn't that the point? We've just been shown some sketches and Ibanezes, not any NAMM guitars.


----------



## prlgmnr

Lemonbaby said:


> Calm down, little snowflake. Why so angry? Maybe other people have less problems to order a $3k guitar without seeing it before? Maybe some even see early runs at NAMM and want to order one? In any case: you're free not to order. Go figure...


STOP GETTING MAD shouts guy alone in cave.


----------



## Lemonbaby

StevenC said:


> Isn't that the point? We've just been shown some sketches and Ibanezes, not any NAMM guitars.


I'm sure they'd love to show and sell their guitars as soon as possible. Who knows what happened, maybe just some supplier has long delivery times on the hardware, a machine broke down or they had tons of other stuff to take care of. At the end of the day, it's not my business and at least I get an idea of what features are available against upcharge...


----------



## lurè

StevenC said:


> We've just been shown some sketches and Ibanezes, not any NAMM guitars.



It's just how things work, they are showing them exclusively at NAMM and upload photos later.
The website came up a bunch of days before the show , I'm guessing the don't want to ruin the surprise.


----------



## StevenC

Frank Falbo said in this thread that the social media updates are the current progress. You two are awful defensive of this for some reason.


----------



## xzacx

Lemonbaby said:


> Who knows what happened, maybe just some supplier has long delivery times on the hardware, a machine broke down or they had tons of other stuff to take care of.



Exactly, who knows? Hence people's skepticism and wanting to the finished projects rather than sketches. It doesn't exactly inspire confidence, especially considering the spotty history of small builders failing to deliver. I'm not suggesting that will be the case here, but hardly being unreasonably to think a little more should be offered before taking orders.


----------



## BigViolin

At least they aren't hyping imaginary, non guitar instruments of the future in a cryptic manner.

...oh wait.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Hmm. No “Standard” 8 string straight fret. Guess that would be custom? 

The list of options is good though. Seems like you can go from basic and straightforward, or as straightforward as this can get, to exotic.


----------



## StevenC

No maple fretboard option, SS frets and a case are upcharges? I want the blue/grey Ibanez with gold hardware, but they won't give it to me.

Obviously this isn't the final specs list from what we've already been told, but this doesn't give me a lot of confidence.


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> The Germans have adopted alt-right lingo? This isn't going to end well...



 That is exactly what I was going to write. I was surprised to see it wasn't someone from a red state making that statement.

But, I'm not against jumping in early. I tend to do that too often, but sometimes I get in good before prices go up. More often then not, though, I end up either losing money or prices go down after the market speaks. Frank is a known quantity, so he's not likely to make off with our money, or turn out a Legator level turd. That being said, I tend to imagine specs way different than they come out, so I'd personally be hesitant to buy a guitar without at least a decent color and wood rendering. (And this is all academic - I can't afford these anyway. But I would totally snap one up used!)


----------



## Avedas

Definitely gonna wait a couple years and/or grab one used. Probably won't be anything used popping up here though. Chances are I'll just forget about them


----------



## Lorcan Ward

No mention of scale lengths, fretwire, hardware, pickups, controls, headstocks, basic measurements etc etc in any of the guitar descriptions. Just the same drawing plus wood specs on each page and an even an option to send them $3400 upfront 

It looks like nickel fret wire is the standard option. For that price point and a company looking to brand themselves as hi-end then their guitars should not have nickel frets.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> No mention of scale lengths, fretwire, hardware, pickups, controls, headstocks, basic measurements etc etc in any of the guitar descriptions. Just the same drawing plus wood specs on each page and an even an option to send them $3400 upfront
> 
> It looks like nickel fret wire is the standard option. For that price point and a company looking to brand themselves as hi-end then their guitars should not have nickel frets.



There are no specs because there isn't anything actually built to measure from. 

It just kinda feels like they're rushing to this NAMM. If their Instagram is any indication they've only completed a single instrument. Maybe two or three if they finished some work in progress stuff quickly. 

I don't see why they didn't launch at Summer NAMM. It's less busy, and they'd have a bunch of cool stuff to show off and let people play on, presumably. 

This guitar has been in development hell for ages, what's a few more months?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

This almost started to feel like a game being stuck in development hell. Tosin Abasi Sig= Duke Nukem Forever


----------



## will_shred

am I missing something or did he just take the same shape ibanez designed for him and use it to open up a guitar company? Unless he designed the shape and gave it to ibanez.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

will_shred said:


> am I missing something or did he just take the same shape ibanez designed for him and use it to open up a guitar company? Unless he designed the shape and gave it to ibanez.



It could be either or, but a lot of that has to do with the particulars of his contract with Ibanez.


----------



## jmeezle

will_shred said:


> am I missing something or did he just take the same shape ibanez designed for him and use it to open up a guitar company? Unless he designed the shape and gave it to ibanez.



Almost positive Ibanez didn't design that for him.


----------



## lilstryer

MaxOfMetal said:


> There are no specs because there isn't anything actually built to measure from.
> 
> It just kinda feels like they're rushing to this NAMM. If their Instagram is any indication they've only completed a single instrument. Maybe two or three if they finished some work in progress stuff quickly.
> 
> I don't see why they didn't launch at Summer NAMM. It's less busy, and they'd have a bunch of cool stuff to show off and let people play on, presumably.
> 
> This guitar has been in development hell for ages, what's a few more months?



That's the thing. I thought they were releasing this NAMM but I haven't seen any of the other string models nor heard anything. Do they have a booth at NAMM?


----------



## prlgmnr

They have a sketch of a booth.

You can have a look at it for 3 grand.


----------



## narad

prlgmnr said:


> They have a sketch of a booth.
> 
> You can have a look at it for 3 grand.



Kinda pricey. Have any pics of someone famous holding it?


----------



## frank falbo

Also BTW Maple fingerboards are available at no charge.


----------



## frank falbo

Specs, photos, and details will be added shortly, but the basic bones are there. Honestly we have people trying desperately to pay us deposits to order early serial numbers.


----------



## Mathemagician

I would assume it takes a while to launch a custom guitar company, when your only offering is hand-made.

They aren’t a small luthier growing by word of mouth. It’s a famous guy whose name brings a ton of attention to anything he breathes on.

Personally I feel like they wanted to share what they were up to early on, and people are going nuts/getting antsy about trying to buy stuff that their team is still prototyping.

Like, I wouldn’t expect everyone to be able to get one anytime soon.

Some people have ridiculous expectations.


----------



## frank falbo

But that’s also the irony. You can order the stock models right now. So we are totally ready. But you’re right. The in-process build shots and videos up until now are just to let everyone in to the process a little.


----------



## jwade

Lorcan Ward said:


> a company looking to brand themselves as hi-end then their guitars should not have nickel frets.



Sorry, but that is an incredibly inaccurate statement. A LOT of people do not like stainless steel frets. They're a pain in the ass to work with, they eat tools/strings far too quickly, and aside from the people who are obstinately supporters of SS frets, they don't provide any benefit to an overwhelmingly large amount of musicians.


----------



## narad

jwade said:


> Sorry, but that is an incredibly inaccurate statement. A LOT of people do not like stainless steel frets. They're a pain in the ass to work with, they eat tools/strings far too quickly, and aside from the people who are obstinately supporters of SS frets, they don't provide any benefit to an overwhelmingly large amount of musicians.



But those are annoyances to the builder, not the player. The player gets maintenance-free fretwork, so basically saving you a couple hundred every 3-8 years of use. That's a pretty appreciable benefit to players, and at this point you're getting SS frets creeping in on Korean made imports, so it's not like it's the lamborghini of guitar options.

I sometimes prefer nickel frets, but do so on my vintage-oriented guitars. Hard to imagine there's much reason to do it on some forward-thinking multiscale ergo that's not chasing 50s vintage sounds.


----------



## VigilSerus

jwade said:


> Sorry, but that is an incredibly inaccurate statement. A LOT of people do not like stainless steel frets. They're a pain in the ass to work with, they eat tools/strings far too quickly, and aside from the people who are obstinately supporters of SS frets, they don't provide any benefit to an overwhelmingly large amount of musicians.



I guess PRS needs to start putting EVO Gold on all their guitars now


----------



## StevenC

jwade said:


> Sorry, but that is an incredibly inaccurate statement. A LOT of people do not like stainless steel frets. They're a pain in the ass to work with, they eat tools/strings far too quickly, and aside from the people who are obstinately supporters of SS frets, they don't provide any benefit to an overwhelmingly large amount of musicians.


When all the guitars it's competing with have SS frets then maybe it should too.


----------



## frank falbo

The stainless steel fret debate is highly polarizing. Based on everything I know, plus the fact that Tosin himself hasn’t spent his career as an advocate for stainless frets, the most correct (or least polarizing) thing to do is offer it as an option to those who want it, and not to force it onto those who don’t.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I got hella faith in this business venture, Tosin has a impeccable taste and is demanding of playable gear, Frank has the experience and the rep to match, as long as they take bites they can chew I expect these pieces to be incredible. I'm one of those peeps that want the low serial, already got the specs together. Good luck guys


----------



## jwade

narad said:


> But those are annoyances to the builder, not the player. The player gets maintenance-free fretwork, so basically saving you a couple hundred every 3-8 years of use. That's a pretty appreciable benefit to the player



It's actually incredibly expensive to have to replace your strings more frequently over and over. But hey, if you really enjoy changing your strings constantly...


----------



## narad

jwade said:


> It's actually incredibly expensive to have to replace your strings more frequently over and over. But hey, if you really enjoy changing your strings constantly...



I change my strings with the same frequency regardless of fret material. I've never really heard of it making a noticeable difference to any of the guys I chat with either.

If there is any truth to that hypothesis, I'd still prefer it wearing out strings, as wearing out your frets in uneven ways is going to cause all sorts of subtle degradation in your intonation. So your entire guitar's performance is going slowly downhill until the refret, vs. strings, which you're back to new every few weeks.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jwade said:


> It's actually incredibly expensive to have to replace your strings more frequently over and over. But hey, if you really enjoy changing your strings constantly...



I'll never understand the folks who are bothered with string changes. 

Also, maybe it's because I have a bunch of guitars in rotation, I don't have to replace the strings on my ss fret guitars any more frequently than those with nickel. 

Even so, I buy strings in bulk, yearly. It works out to something like a couple bucks a month per guitar. 

How fast do you go through strings on your ss fret stuff vs. nickel?


----------



## narad

^^ And to that point, my SS frets stay silky smooth. My nickel frets start great, but after some wear the bends aren't smooth. I'd imagine such a scenario means that nickel frets can actually grind the strings out faster than simply the hardness factor of SS.

Doesn't really concern me -- acidic sweat and other such chemical reactions seems to ruin my strings long before any purely physical contact wear.


----------



## Frostbite

narad said:


> ^^ And to that point, my SS frets stay silky smooth. My nickel frets start great, but after some wear the bends aren't smooth. I'd imagine such a scenario means that nickel frets can actually grind the strings out faster than simply the hardness factor of SS.
> 
> Doesn't really concern me -- acidic sweat and other such chemical reactions seems to ruin my strings long before any purely physical contact wear.


This right here. I have guitars that have either or and SS frets in no way damage my strings faster. My hands ruin the tone of the strings long before I think that would happen. SS frets are just so ridiculously smooth and have such a quality feel to them all the time, not right after a string change and I break out the gorgomyte


----------



## Lorcan Ward

The 8 string burl top is at their NAMM booth, hearing good things so far!

Can you share the scale lengths Frank? Just really curious what Tosin went with for each build? 



jwade said:


> It's actually incredibly expensive to have to replace your strings more frequently over and over. But hey, if you really enjoy changing your strings constantly...



In my experience this is a complete myth, as bad as Bolt-ons don't sustain or thin bodies have thin tone. I've had two nickel guitars refretted with SS recently, the biggest change is that strings now last MUCH longer. Like twice as long. Once SS are polished correctly they leave a super smooth surface, you need to really really polish them flawlessly. Anyone having a problem with strings wearing out I can guarantee you have rough spots that are grinding your strings which is why it's not a good idea to have SS frets on production guitars that don't have high level of QC. Your nickel strings will never wear those spots down but it will wear them. 

I'll never understand players who can't see the benefit of SS. After two years you get to pick up your guitar, even after 1000+ hours there is zero fret wear and tarnishing, the frets still play and feel the same way they did day 1. You never have to polish them or get them dressed and they stay super smooth permanently. You get to forget about them and so does the builder. So I'm saving money on maintenance, eventual tech fee for leveling and string changes(I used to have to change strings a lot on my two nickel guitars before refretting them). 

They are only a pain if you're using the wrong tools which is the luthiers or techs fault. Last few luthiers workshops I've been in all vastly prefer working with SS because they have the tools geared towards SS frets. Now they've got accustomed to them they don't take that much longer to install.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Has anyone here actually had issues with SS frets wearing their strings down? It's something I hear from luthiers that don't want to deal with SS frets, but never actually heard from people that actually PLAY SS frets. 

Unless you play guitar like Doyle, I don't see it being much of an issue there. 

Actually while typing this, I just read Lorcan Ward's message. Well, there you go.


----------



## jephjacques

I've noticed it a couple times but never to the point where it made a difference in tuning or playability or anything. My strings wear out from sweat and climate way faster than they get worn down by SS frets.

Honestly for me they're nice but not an absolute requirement. My masterbuilt Jackson has nickel frets and if it's good enough for Mike Shannon it's good enough for me


----------



## cip 123

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Has anyone here actually had issues with SS frets wearing their strings down?



Never.


----------



## VigilSerus

6 String Floyd


----------



## makecamera

https://www.instagram.com/p/BeeXPJal8U5/


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Headstocks seem naked without a logo or anything. Is the 8-string a less-refined proto or is that what the finally product will be?


----------



## Vyn

I was wondering how they would look with standard frets but hot damn that white 6 is gorgeous.


----------



## Bdtunn

Wow that six string is gorgeous!!


----------



## KnightBrolaire




----------



## Cheap

Posted a bunch of pics on my Instagram as well as a video going through tosins clean patch. @samcollectives

The whole rig is just stupid good and everyone is gonna have their feet in their mouths for thinking this wasn’t the best fit for tosin and co

This guitar seemed like the most alien thing in all of namm this year and that totally rules as far I’m concerned. Trying to sort out 3k to jump in


----------



## makecamera

Cheap said:


> Posted a bunch of pics on my Instagram as well as a video going through tosins clean patch. @samcollectives
> 
> The whole rig is just stupid good and everyone is gonna have their feet in their mouths for thinking this wasn’t the best fit for tosin and co
> 
> This guitar seemed like the most alien thing in all of namm this year and that totally rules as far I’m concerned. Trying to sort out 3k to jump in



How did it compare to the Aristides? The Strandberg? Your Suhr and PRS?


----------



## Cheap

Here’s a


makecamera said:


> How did it compare to the Aristides? The Strandberg? Your Suhr and PRS?


Way cooler. The unique factor makes it kind of difficult to quantify, but in the short time I spent with it I felt inspired in a way I haven’t felt by a guitar in a long while. My PRS is a close second, but may be on the chopping block to make one of these possible—hopefully I’ll have a way to play one again soon and see if my initial reaction holds up

Btw the neck profile is super thin but not irritating. The guitar mostly disappears when playing it and feels super tiny with where the bridge is on the body. I kept overshooting for the first fret because I expected it to be farther out. 

Overall just totally wild and I probably won’t get over it


----------



## narad

Well that's intriguing, but I'm a bit confused what could be so novel about it. Like if you've played on a similar scale length, the first fret is right where the first fret is, etc...


----------



## Cheap

narad said:


> Well that's intriguing, but I'm a bit confused what could be so novel about it. Like if you've played on a similar scale length, the first fret is right where the first fret is, etc...


Just reporting about the illusion of a tinier guitar. Kind of throws the brain off a bit at first. Focus on how you feel about where the frets are once you play one haha


----------



## Kyle Jordan

The headstock reminds me of the Ken Lawrence Explorer headstock.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

narad said:


> Well that's intriguing, but I'm a bit confused what could be so novel about it. Like if you've played on a similar scale length, the first fret is right where the first fret is, etc...



I think he means something like the 1st fret being in a different place due to where the bridge is on the body. If the bridge is closer to the end, the 1st fret will be closer, and if it's further away, it'll be more of a reach to get to it. The scale doesn't change, but the position of the frets relative to the body/player does.


----------



## frank falbo

Since it’s namm I can’t really get in here as often as I’d like but to answer one question that came up about scale length (I have the exact numbers just not in front of me right now)

Here’s the unique thing...the 8 String is 25.5 - 27.5. So those string lengths are established as sounding and feeling right to Tosin (and comports with a statistical majority of multiscale players). 

So the 6 string and 7 string multiscale retain the exact same string length for each individual string, even though the nit width and string spacing changes a little. 

This produces a unique number for the low string scale on the 7 and 6. Since they’re weird numbers we will probably round them for the website. They’d have 3 or 4 numbers after the decimal point.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bee5mAUAl5a/


----------



## Lemonbaby

I'd guess the 1st fret might be perceived closer psychologically as the upper body you're looking down upon goes right up to the 12th fret. What really counts is where the contact point to your leg is located in relation to the scale length.


----------



## cardinal

Hope these guys make it. Nice looking guitars. The fan would be great for me. And a straight-8 Floyd would be killer.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Interesting to see them using the OG Floyd Roses on the 6-strings.


----------



## makecamera

narad said:


> Well that's intriguing, but I'm a bit confused what could be so novel about it. Like if you've played on a similar scale length, the first fret is right where the first fret is, etc...



I think this might answer your question (at least for the 8 string, and I imagine it should be applicable to the 6 string model as well given the same body design):



Edit: Apparently I can't paste in the youtube link with any parameters, so start at 2:00 minutes in.


----------



## narad

Ah, I see. Yea, I'm a bit skeptical wrt to the bridge placement being notably different from the boden. Like I definitely don't get "surfboard" effect with that.

But yea, sounds goods -- the scale lengths, string spacing -- all things I'd prefer over other ergs. The scale length is basically what I had on my M2M boden.


----------



## zarg

pretty interesting video


----------



## ramses

So Tosin went from 28″ - 26.5″ scale to 27.5" - 25.5" scale. I'm curious as to how string gauges changed accordingly.


----------



## narad

Ha, I'm quickly warming up to it -- I think I'm going to get one


----------



## Albake21

Man I'm really starting to like these more and more, but they are just WAY out of my budget. Crazy to see they are being built in Arlington Heights, IL. I live pretty damn close to there. I'm wondering if they just bought the Washburn custom shop which was the same location.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

"I like trems." -Tosin Abasi

YOU HEARD IT HERE FOLKS.

Also interesting to see poplar on a higher-end guitar. Keep the weight down?


----------



## jwade

Holy damn, the white one and the bass! I want one.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> "I like trems." -Tosin Abasi
> 
> YOU HEARD IT HERE FOLKS.
> 
> Also interesting to see poplar on a higher-end guitar. Keep the weight down?


if it's actually lighter weight poplar. I have some poplar bodies that weigh a shitton like my jazzmaster build, which is close to 7 lbs without the hardware.


----------



## Anquished

Have to admit, the designs are growing on me. Especially the 6 string.


----------



## Zalbu

Wonder why they went with the original Floyd over something like the Gotoh 510, what are the differences between them?


----------



## lewis

pickup rings....really?


----------



## xzacx

Zalbu said:


> Wonder why they went with the original Floyd over something like the Gotoh 510, *what are the differences between them?*



That Floyd still locks at the bridge, just doesn't have fine tuners.


----------



## jephjacques

Waiting to hear back from them about putting in a deposit. I don't mind being a guinea pig!


----------



## Avedas

Gimme a 6 with that mini Floyd and no pickup rings.


----------



## lewstherin006

Stopped by the Abasi booth while aaron was there and fimed hits! The guitars look odd but man they play really well. The neck on them is amazing.


----------



## sezna

It does look kinda funny as a six string, lol. I definitely want to get one of these when production begins. I love the headstock and the trem addition. Anyone know what kind of trem that is?


----------



## lewstherin006

sezna said:


> It does look kinda funny as a six string, lol. I definitely want to get one of these when production begins. I love the headstock and the trem addition. Anyone know what kind of trem that is?



That 6 string had a OG floyd, the one that is short.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I would love this thing if it didn’t have a tumor singlecut. Like make it more LP shaped in that respect and id sell my soul for it


----------



## Shoeless_jose

yeah looks like a Floyd but no locking nut??


----------



## bloc

Looks pretty nice with a headstock, I am kinda surprised.


----------



## frank falbo

Avedas said:


> Gimme a 6 with that mini Floyd and no pickup rings.



We can do that. We put rings on the 6 string because the other guitars have a monolithic soapbar look, and the rings mimic that rectangular aesthetic on the 6. But we will take orders for 6 with direct mount.


----------



## lewstherin006

Dineley said:


> yeah looks like a Floyd but no locking nut??



Dont need it with locking tuners.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

lewstherin006 said:


> Dont need it with locking tuners.



Thats not now those work


----------



## KnightBrolaire

https://www.instagram.com/p/Beiz350gprz/
Damn those cleans are tasty


----------



## nistley

KnightBrolaire said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/Beiz350gprz/
> Damn those cleans are tasty


Also, looks like there is also enough glue there to feed a djent army.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewstherin006 said:


> Dont need it with locking tuners.



No locking nut because the trem doesn't have fine tuners. If they used a locking nut they'd throw the tuning sharp and not have a way to adjust. 

This unit is basically a locking version of a Gotoh 510 or Wilkinson V series. 

Locking tuners don't do anything for tuning stability in a trem setup. The nut is still a hot spot.


----------



## BigViolin

narad said:


> But yea, sounds goods -- the scale lengths, string spacing -- all things I'd prefer over other ergs. The scale length is basically what I had on my M2M boden.



Where did you see the information regarding string spacing?


----------



## narad

BigViolin said:


> Where did you see the information regarding string spacing?



He just mentioned it in the video -- not the specifics but with respect to more common 8-string spacing.


----------



## Bdtunn

I know this doesn't apply to most on here but lefties are available at no extra charge


----------



## BigViolin

narad said:


> He just mentioned it in the video -- not the specifics but with respect to more common 8-string spacing.



Cool thanks, wanted to be sure I wasn't missing some numbers. I'm hoping they don't stray too much from what Ibanez does with their 8s in leaving a good amount of room between the outer strings and edge of fretboard.


----------



## frank falbo

nistley said:


> Also, looks like there is also enough glue there to feed a djent army.


What glue are you talking about? There’s no excess glue in my joints. What are you referring to?


----------



## frank falbo

nistley said:


> Also, looks like there is also enough glue there to feed a djent army.


What glue are you talking about? There’s no excess glue in any of those joins. What are you referring to?


----------



## frank falbo

BigViolin said:


> Cool thanks, wanted to be sure I wasn't missing some numbers. I'm hoping they don't stray too much from what Ibanez does with their 8s in leaving a good amount of room between the outer strings and edge of fretboard.


That’s still the case on the Abasi 8 string


----------



## nistley

frank falbo said:


> What glue are you talking about? There’s no excess glue in my joints. What are you referring to?



https://snag.gy/qVOWiJ.jpg


----------



## BigViolin

frank falbo said:


> That’s still the case on the Abasi 8 string



Very cool, thanks!


----------



## Avedas

lewstherin006 said:


> Stopped by the Abasi booth while aaron was there and fimed hits! The guitars look odd but man they play really well. The neck on them is amazing.



Aaron's sick as always. How's the upper fret access feel like? I've never been to much of a singlecut guy but I'm really curious.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

nistley said:


> https://snag.gy/qVOWiJ.jpg



What?  That's literally glare from being in a room with a million lights.


----------



## nistley

ElysianGuitars said:


> What?  That's literally glare from being in a room with a million lights.



Cool, didn't know glares could be such perfect bright lines over the entire visible L shape of a joint ;]


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Aaron is a beast, wish there wasn't attempted bass playing going on.


----------



## frank falbo

It’s just ashy buffing compound and pick dust and such. A little guitar polish and we’re not having this conversation.


----------



## ECGuitars

frank falbo said:


> It’s just ashy buffing compound and pick dust and such. A little guitar polish and we’re not having this conversation.


Gotta love the arm chair woodworkers who know absolutely nothing haha


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hey Frank do you have more high quality pics of the guitars? I feel like I haven't really seen the whole picture. Videos are cool, but I just really want a high resolution shot of the front, back, side profile, etc.


----------



## thesnowdog

Did I understand correctly that Thomann will be stocking them?


----------



## Albake21

thesnowdog said:


> Did I understand correctly that Thomann will be stocking them?


Where did you get that from? Did I miss something?


----------



## nistley

ECGuitars said:


> Gotta love the arm chair woodworkers who know absolutely nothing haha



haha, yeah, gotta love armchair woodworkers who know everything about jokes based on unappealing visuals, haha.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

nistley said:


> haha, yeah, gotta love armchair woodworkers who know everything about jokes based on unappealing visuals, haha.


You found a non-flaw in a low res Instagram video, and decided it was worth chiding.


----------



## scrub

LOL glare from lights? not a chance.


----------



## jephjacques

getting owned by luthiers ITT


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> You found a non-flaw in a low res Instagram video, and decided it was worth chiding.



How about we get some real pictures so there's no more of this conjecture?


----------



## nistley

jephjacques said:


> getting owned by luthiers ITT


;_;;;;;;;


----------



## nistley

scrub said:


> LOL glare from lights? not a chance.



LOL straight lines from glare following structural shape? 100 %%%


----------



## nistley

ElysianGuitars said:


> You found a non-flaw in a low res Instagram video, and decided it was worth chiding.



Yeah, imagine that, someone else sees something you don't, on the internet, of all places. Such injustice, the consumers must be put in their place by the luthiers.

I'm sure Frank who provided an actual reasonable, alternative, explanation appreciates the support.


----------



## jephjacques

you seem mad


----------



## scrub

that isn't remotely straight.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> You found a non-flaw in a low res Instagram video, and decided it was worth chiding.



Why are pictures of these things so scarce that you have to PM ME


----------



## ElysianGuitars

MaxOfMetal said:


> Why are pictures of these things so scarce that you have to PM ME


Because it's not my picture to post. Why are you letting someone shit on a thread when the builder has already told him he's wrong? You taking my PM public is also pretty crap.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

I forgot, they posted a video of the finish already, and showed this area pretty well.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bc8pk4dH06T/?taken-by=abasiguitars







No conjecture here.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> Because it's not my picture to post. Why are you letting someone shit on a thread when the builder has already told him he's wrong? You taking my PM public is also pretty crap.



Why are you getting so worked up? If he's wrong he's wrong and everyone can move on. You guys are the ones pushing this forward at this point. I don't see why you need to PM me over this. It's not like he's making a scene, you are.


----------



## lewstherin006

Avedas said:


> Aaron's sick as always. How's the upper fret access feel like? I've never been to much of a singlecut guy but I'm really curious.



Really good. Nothing gets in your way when you try to play in the upper frets.


----------



## InHiding

I guess it's an option if you like funny shapes but otherwise it's hard for me to see much value in that guitar. Also, I've probably read dozens of posts during the years saying "it has the best neck I've ever tried" etc. so that's pointless too (and you didn't even say it's the best ever...). Cool to have options though.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

MaxOfMetal said:


> Why are you getting so worked up? If he's wrong he's wrong and everyone can move on. You guys are the ones pushing this forward at this point. I don't see why you need to PM me over this. It's not like he's making a scene, you are.


I've made 3 posts on the subject so far, including my last one showing the area, excluding my response to you. I pm'd you, a mod, because of your comment on conjecture. I shouldn't have to explain this.


----------



## lurè

So far i'm loving everything about this guitar


----------



## Albake21

lurè said:


> So far i'm loving everything about this guitar


Same... except the price lol


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Better picture of that area, during the finish process.


----------



## frank falbo

I don’t mind scrutiny where applicable, though I must admit this is a new level of witch hunting for me.

We may indeed be limited to in-process shots and one-off completed unit photos for a brief while. I have many of the “first” versions of these guitars complete or near complete at the moment. But more importantly I have all the programs and processes complete to begin production of all of these configurations right now. 

But this speaks to the greater debate here as to when a startup should actually "launch". As someone with an extensive background in product development for multiple companies throughout the industry, I've seen all different philosophies play out in this regard.

If you are a wealthy, high budget company, or a startup with a sugar daddy, then you can spend a LOT of money to have every digital asset and sample product prior to ever selling even 1 unit. By contrast, if you’re a bootstrap startup, it’s extremely common to build up to these assets over time, while letting your loyal customer base in on the process. Basically making yourself transparent and inviting them into your world, even to the point of making yourself vulnerable. If you have negative people looking to tear you down, then often within a short period of time either their hearts and minds are changed, or they become an irrelevant fringe. 

One of Tosin’s value propositions was to make these instruments as affordable and accessible as possible while producing guitars of the highest caliber. People who know my work or follow me on Instagram know that I give incredibly close up shots of the workmanship, joins, neck heel carves, but also the down and dirty rasp carves, CNC movements, wood chips and other behind the scenes photos.

Because there are some people familiar with both myself and Tosin’s eye for detail, we have been inundated with demand; people asking us “May I please buy one of these?!?” including asking ways to secure early serial numbers. At NAMM, this was enough of a success that we basically have orders for every major configuration already on the books. High res photos are inevitable and imminent. For certain people that is what’s required before considering placing an order. And that’s fine. It’s wonderful actually, a built in “second wave” of orders after the early adopters. But there are a lot of people who already know what to expect from my shop and Tosin’s eye for detail. Bottom line is, I have to make ecommerce ways for those people to place properly tracked orders right now.

I look forward over the upcoming weeks and months being able to showcase these builds in all of their glory. For now we will continue to siphon feed process shots that so far are inspiring enough confidence that the ordering flood gates have opened and the “early serial numbers” will be gone pretty soon.


----------



## cardinal

Good grief. Where is the guitar? I hasn’t been sold and delivered to a third party, right?

Then anyone with a phone in its vicinity just take some pics of the area and put this to bed.


----------



## Randy

I can see where Frank's coming from and I can see where Max is coming from.

Tosin is a great musician but he comes from a scene that's infamous for artists willing to put their name or their face on something, seemingly for a quick buck because the fanbase is fixated on gear to a fault. I'm not saying Tosin is guilty of that but it's just a perception that's out there. And when artists inevitably leave for somewhere else or the company ended up not being all it was cracked up to be (BRJ, Protone, Vik, etc.), you get fans/consumers that feel betrayed and then that's doubled by outside observers. This site more than maybe any other has been ground zero for that.

In that case, I can absolutely see some skepticism over the process. I'm not accusing anyone in this thread OF doing this, but it's very easy to put a big name on your stuff, leak some stuff onto social media, make a NAMM appearance and start taking piles and piles of deposits on guitars nobody at large has every played. It's happened here near infinite times. So yeah, I can see guys like Max and others wanting to see more proof this is a reliable, long term venture and not another 'big name, big deposit up front" hype run.

That said, I put a little more faith in Frank than that. Yes, this is speaking about someone that I only know from the other side of the internet and I've never purchased anything from that he's built (we did correspond in the SD days, a couple times though). But I haven't personally heard any complaints about Frank or his workmanship, or his business acumen. I was HELLA skeptical when I first heard about this venture and I think Frank is probably one of the only people who's name I could have seen attached to it and thought "well, this has a chance of working out", for whatever that's worth.

I think the 'drip drip drip' teasers and the NAMM appearance with prototypes and big names, but few finished pieces is hurting perceptions. I'm 'glass half full' on this one but I can easily see how others wouldn't be. Can't rush the process, so I can sympathize but I'm sure more finished guitars will quell a lot of the biggest concerns.


----------



## narad

I think Frank's perspective is very reasonable (and that earlier glare as neck glue comment was just completely bonkers), but are we really doing the "high value early serial numbers" thing?


----------



## frank falbo

The serial number thing isn’t really MY thing, I’m just saying that I’m getting the requests. And for some people who are genuine fans of everything that this represents, it’s an important thing. You’re right I should rephrase.


----------



## diagrammatiks

narad said:


> I think Frank's perspective is very reasonable (and that earlier glare as neck glue comment was just completely bonkers), but are we really doing the "high value early serial numbers" thing?



apparently people want it.


----------



## diagrammatiks

frank falbo said:


> The serial number thing isn’t really MY thing, I’m just saying that I’m getting the requests. And for some people who are genuine fans of everything that this represents, it’s an important thing. You’re right I should rephrase.



it's the right business move. If someone is really willing to pay big bucks for number 1 why stop them.


----------



## narad

diagrammatiks said:


> it's the right business move. If someone is really willing to pay big bucks for number 1 why stop them.



He's not charging more for low serial numbers. It's just an incentive for people willing to sidestep the risk of ordering a guitar they've never played or heard any unbiased reviews of. I personally never agreed with it -- like a Daemoness or Strandberg, every year the quality just gets better, as they continue to develop new techniques and workout the bugs. 

I just think it's a bit cart-before-the-horse to be selling the very first guitar while pitching a future world where the brand is a giant success and the value of low serial numbers has gone up significantly. It's different between whether a consumer happens to believe that and whether a brand is actively stating that.


----------



## n4t

Quality of the thread really goes down when trolls and idiots start posting junk.


----------



## frank falbo

narad said:


> He's not charging more for low serial numbers...I just think it's a bit cart-before-the-horse to be selling the very first guitar while pitching a future world where the brand is a giant success and the value of low serial numbers has gone up significantly. It's different between whether a consumer happens to believe that and whether a brand is actively stating that.


Exactly. We’re not marketing like that. I just mean that I’m getting the inquiries about it. And I think it’s not even about the future value with most of these inquiries. It’s a sentimental treasure type of thing, that years from now they’ll know they have it, and it will bring back fond memories.


----------



## StevenC

So Mr Falbo, can you say yet if baritone hybrid will be one of the options along with all the other cool stuff, or do I still have to go to Rick Toone* or Strandberg Made to Measure for that?

Edit: *after I get a face tattoo


----------



## Lemonbaby

thesnowdog said:


> Did I understand correctly that Thomann will be stocking them?


Yes, the Thomann guys said that in their NAMM video. Happy to hear that, as customs is both annoying and expensive when ordering from the US. I'll definitely drop by to check one out once it's in the showroom. Haven't bought a guitar since I started building myself in 2015, but this one's definitely a candidate...


----------



## Lemonbaby

StevenC said:


> So Mr Falbo, can you say yet if baritone hybrid will be one of the options along with all the other cool stuff, or do I still have to go to Rick Toone* or Strandberg Made to Measure for that?
> 
> Edit: *after I get a face tattoo


The queue for Strandberg customs is horribly long. I got on in 2015 and it basically moved a two digit number since then. Still several hundred left befire me. And I don't even want to know how long you wait for a Toone...


----------



## StevenC

Lemonbaby said:


> The queue for Strandberg customs is horribly long. I got on in 2015 and it basically moved a two digit number since then. Still several hundred left befire me. And I don't even want to know how long you wait for a Toone...


Yeah, ordered my first Strandberg in 2011, got it in 2014. Ordered the second in 2013, still waiting. That's my point, it might be quicker to get an Abasi than my next M2M and don't really want to pay Rick Toone money for any guitar ever. Also not sure I want my next M2M to be every idea I have just because it'll take so long before I've another chance.


----------



## narad

Lemonbaby said:


> The queue for Strandberg customs is horribly long. I got on in 2015 and it basically moved a two digit number since then. Still several hundred left befire me. And I don't even want to know how long you wait for a Toone...



There's not much reason to go M2M anymore vs. Swedish custom shop. Same group. Tons of options in the CS -- probably similar to what you'll have here. The Abasi is probably still $1500 cheaper and made by a more established shop though.


----------



## diagrammatiks

narad said:


> He's not charging more for low serial numbers. It's just an incentive for people willing to sidestep the risk of ordering a guitar they've never played or heard any unbiased reviews of. I personally never agreed with it -- like a Daemoness or Strandberg, every year the quality just gets better, as they continue to develop new techniques and workout the bugs.
> 
> I just think it's a bit cart-before-the-horse to be selling the very first guitar while pitching a future world where the brand is a giant success and the value of low serial numbers has gone up significantly. It's different between whether a consumer happens to believe that and whether a brand is actively stating that.



I know, but he's not turning people away. I don't think it's about the value going up. Someone might just want the first few serial numbers.

Normally, I'd be wary but Falbo isn't a out of nowhere builder. 

At the end of the day, we've been around long enough to know that most of the people that are first in line to buy a custom boutique guitar have no business buying one and have absolutely no idea what to spec for the most part. I'm speaking from experience on that one.

But, if it's disposable income who cares.


----------



## frank falbo

StevenC said:


> So Mr Falbo, can you say yet if baritone hybrid will be one of the options along with all the other cool stuff, or do I still have to go to Rick Toone* or Strandberg Made to Measure for that?
> 
> Edit: *after I get a face tattoo


Both of those options are good, they are both very competent designers and builders, worth every penny. 

If you need a baritone guitar on Tosin’s guitar design, send us an email through the site.


----------



## diagrammatiks

did some announcement say that a headless version of this might be available?


----------



## frank falbo

There is no might.


----------



## jephjacques

Question, and this isn't meant to be a dig- when can I expect to get a reply back about my quote? I know y'all are wicked busy I just wanna make sure I haven't been lost in the shuffle


----------



## frank falbo

I’ll reply today. Yesterday ended up being entirely a pack/travel day. But yes, as you can imagine the inbox is flooded.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## Jonathan20022

Got to feel around the 8 string at the show on Saturday. Pretty impressed with how it felt and kind of want to take the dive on a build, I remember people were asking for Photos of it and I captured a few snaps and had Frank run me through the guitar and options available. Being able to order the design in a 6 string capacity is a huge selling point to me, and the Tosin Fishmans are also extremely appealing. Going to inquire about getting the battery pack fitted into the backplate instead of the 9 volt slot.

It was also pretty cool and while the booth was packed Tosin and Frank were urging people to give the guitars a spin. I didn't feel like plugging it in, felt more inclined to just observe the guitar and feel it's neck profile. It feels quite different to the neck profile on the Ibanez protos, in a pleasing way.







Pictures of the 8 String
https://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathan20022/albums/72157692883315165


----------



## lewis

Jonathan20022 said:


> Got to feel around the 8 string at the show on Saturday. Pretty impressed with how it felt and kind of want to take the dive on a build, I remember people were asking for Photos of it and I captured a few snaps and had Frank run me through the guitar and options available. Being able to order the design in a 6 string capacity is a huge selling point to me, and the Tosin Fishmans are also extremely appealing. Going to inquire about getting the battery pack fitted into the backplate instead of the 9 volt slot.
> 
> It was also pretty cool and while the booth was packed Tosin and Frank were urging people to give the guitars a spin. I didn't feel like plugging it in, felt more inclined to just observe the guitar and feel it's neck profile. It feels quite different to the neck profile on the Ibanez protos, in a pleasing way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pictures of the 8 String
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathan20022/albums/72157692883315165


the guitar looks amazing

also are you a big dude height wise? because it looks lovely and slim for an 8 string neck. Looks super playable.

for example im 5ft8 so im tiny haha


----------



## Jonathan20022

I'm sitting at exactly 6 feet haha, it's by no means a small body design IMO. I'm wondering how they'll approach the headless model, since most builders reduce the size of the body to accommodate and keep the balanced look. I'll report back once I hear back from Frank and get a few more answers.


----------



## Malkav

frank falbo said:


> If you need a baritone guitar on Tosin’s guitar design, send us an email through the site.



He's talking about having frets behind the nut, not just a baritone scale, like on Tosin's Blur guitar from Rick Toone.


----------



## cardinal

Huh. It does seem to have some white stuff around the bass-side of the neck joint. I assume it’s buffing compound? But odd to see on a show model.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Huh. It does seem to have some white stuff around the bass-side of the neck joint. I assume it’s buffing compound? But odd to see on a show model.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

cardinal said:


> Huh. It does seem to have some white stuff around the bass-side of the neck joint. I assume it’s buffing compound? But odd to see on a show model.




Yeah..... it's buffing compound. I certainly there. I was here. I don't know what you're talking about. STOP POINTING FINGERS, YOU ARE NOT MY DAD.

Really though I missed NAMM  May go to Summer NAMM


----------



## Albake21

I


r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Yeah..... it's buffing compound. I certainly there. I was here. I don't know what you're talking about. STOP POINTING FINGERS, YOU ARE NOT MY DAD.
> 
> Really though I missed NAMM  May go to Summer NAMM


I would go in a heartbeat if it was open to the public 
It's basically my dream at this point to go.


----------



## xzacx

cardinal said:


> Huh. It does seem to have some white stuff around the bass-side of the neck joint. I assume it’s buffing compound? But odd to see on a show model.



Treble side too:






Despite that, I'm actually liking these more after seeing Jonathan's pics. I'm probably not going to be an early adopter, but I'm pretty interested now.


----------



## nistley

xzacx said:


> Treble side too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite that, I'm actually liking these more after seeing Jonathan's pics. I'm probably not going to be an early adopter, but I'm pretty interested now.



Wow, man, what's wrong with you? It's just a glare! That's how glares look like. Okey.


----------



## narad

nistley said:


> Wow, man, what's wrong with you? It's just a glare! That's how glares look like. Okey.



Honestly I don't care if you were right about the other side of the guitar because it was such a complete shot in the dark to see a white line and definitively claim "hey -- shit build -- got a bunch of glue in there!" from a zoomed in screengrab from youtube where I can literally be counting the pixels in area of interest.


----------



## nistley

narad said:


> Honestly I don't care if you were right about the other side of the guitar because it was such a complete shot in the dark to see a white line and definitively claim "hey -- shit build -- got a bunch of glue in there!" from a zoomed in screengrab from youtube where I can literally be counting the pixels in area of interest.



You have both visual and reading comprehension problems, because I never made such claim. I made an observation, for which I accepted a perfectly plausible explanation before higher res picture, and the lines are obvious, even if it's not obvious what they're made of.


----------



## StevenC

nistley said:


> You have both visual and reading comprehension problems, because I never made such claim. I made an observation, for which I accepted a perfectly plausible explanation before higher res picture, and the lines are obvious, even if it's not obvious what they're made of.


Not to be that guy, but an observation would be "there's a white line there", saying there's glue is more of a claim or hypothesis.


----------



## Randy

Personal comments = PMs

The one and only warning.


----------



## narad

Yea, sorry. I just thought it would also drive home the point about the intention of certain statements.


----------



## KnightBrolaire




----------



## Jonathan20022

The buffing compound was one of the first things I asked Frank about. And it's clearly an anomoly, the other two instruments didn't have a trace of that to my eyes. The only reason I didn't photograph them is because people were noodling on them and I didn't want to bother them and stick a camera in their face. Frank was not defensive about it nor was he offended when people brought it up. 

If it was glue in that way you'd probably see it seeping from the back of the neck joint as well. But it didn't bother me once I spoke to Frank, unfortunately he had no way of cleaning it off on the show floor but they were in a rush to make an appearence and were only able to be there from Saturday onwards.

I get why people are so willing to meme on a visual "defect". But when the other two instruments show no trace of the problem and the builder is in here to answer questions. It seems a bit silly to go down the paranoid rabbit hole.


----------



## frank falbo

nistley said:


> I made an observation, for which I accepted a perfectly plausible explanation before higher res picture, and the lines are obvious, even if it's not obvious what they're made of.


I guess my issue is that I’m extremely passionate about guitars, and my tolerance for quality not only meets, but rivals or exceeds what most experienced guitar makers and players would consider “the best”. My peers not only tip their hats, but in many cases seek advice and counsel from me, and utilize me and my team to improve what they do.

I can’t tell you how much it pains me to say it out loud. I hate talking about myself. I’m not very good at self promotion and would much rather have these things said about me than to say them myself. I’m not a proud or arrogant person. I sometimes conduct myself with a bit of midwest sarcasm but that’s not meant to be taken as bravado.

So when you say some of the things you’ve said, it bothers me. Yes there was buffing compound residue along the neck-body border. The neck is taped off, the body is buffed, then you remove the tape and clean the area. Then....as what often happens, later on a haze forms as the polish/compound dries out, and it has to be re-wiped/cleaned.

For someone to falsely suggest something about there being “enough glue in there....something about an army”....honestly I have pretty thick skin but that bothered me. This is what I do. This is how my wife and kids are provided for, but perhaps more importantly it’s the very thing that differentiates my builds from others. 

As for “buffing compound at NAMM” if you’ve ever been to NAMM, it’s actually pretty common, to the point of being cliche almost. NAMMies tell old stories of hanging guitars out the window of the car on the way down so the paint will dry, etc. it’s a pretty chaotic time for most companies, getting guitars done just in time for show opening and such.

We all want to have guitars done weeks before the show and have a nice nap and latte before the opening bell, but truth is...if you’ve ever been at NAMM the day and week before during setup, it’s a wild ride.

Hopefully this is behind us. I wiped the compound off at Tosin’s house and....it’s gone now.


----------



## nistley

frank falbo said:


> For someone to falsely suggest something about there being “enough glue in there....something about an army”....honestly I have pretty thick skin but that bothered me. This is what I do. This is how my wife and kids are provided for, but perhaps more importantly it’s the very thing that differentiates my builds from others.
> 
> As for “buffing compound at NAMM” if you’ve ever been to NAMM, it’s actually pretty common, to the point of being cliche almost.



I apologize for my ignorant conjecture, and it really sucks that it was bothersome. On the upside, I'm sure if anyone didn't know how much you cared about the craft, it has been made clear beyond any doubt. Thanks for your hard work and nice responses


----------



## jwade

The more I see the white one, the more I really want a 7 string of it.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

The video Tosin posted of the Cedar body model on his Instagram sounded pretty incredible and unique. Fantastic clean tone. I'm still quite skeptical of the whole tone wood on a solid body thing, but I will say that I was impressed by that tone. 

Frank, would you share which type of Cedar was used as the body wood for that one?


----------



## GXPO

Not sure if this has already been posted.. Aaron Marshall putting the 6 through it's paces. 



Sounds pretty slick to my ears.


----------



## Fred the Shred

The guitars sound and feel great, even though I'm not used in the slightest to Tosin's narrower string spacing on the 8-string. Even the 6-string, freshly finished, had only one minor niggle promptly corrected by Frank. Stuff is quite well made, as expected, and given the absurd number of hours Frank had to put in to get the axes done, impressively so.


----------



## cardinal

Thanks Fred. Great to hear. These look great and I’m hoping they are really successful. I’d like to pull the trigger down the road.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Came very close yesterday to pulling the trigger, these things are really growing on me!


----------



## jephjacques

Just put my deposit in.


----------



## theicon2125

jephjacques said:


> Just put my deposit in.



Did they give you a time estimate? What options did you choose?


----------



## jephjacques

Basic model except for an all mahogany body and SS frets. I was told 8-10 weeks from time of deposit, we’ll see how it goes!


----------



## Hollowway

This will come as a surprise to no one, but I REEEEEALLLLY want a pink 8 with a maple FB.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Pink w/maple would be great. Pink is an awesome color on guitars. My Anderson Drop Top was Cajun Magenta and that may still be the best looking guitar I've owned.

An Abasi in Shell Pink with white or nickel covered pups and chrome hardware would be awesome.


----------



## frank falbo

FYI some have asked about how the string scale is calculated for the 6 and the 7. Since I have the spreadsheet open right now I'll paste it here. The basic premise is that with the 25.5 - 27.5" fan on the 8 string, we are making the 7 string and 6 string be the same string length as the 8. In other words, whether a 6 or 7, all the strings will feel the same way they feel on Tosin's 8. The actual numbers are below. Now I have to decide how much I want to round the numbers for the website. Somehow I think "26.92534" is kind of hard for people to remember...

String Scale
1 25.50000
2 25.78369
3 26.06809
4 26.35318
5 26.63894
6 26.92534
7 27.21237
8 27.50000


----------



## frank falbo

Hollowway said:


> This will come as a surprise to no one, but I REEEEEALLLLY want a pink 8 with a maple FB.


PLEASE, everyone chip in to a gofundme so that this happens as soon as possible.


----------



## lewstherin006

Here is part 2 of Aaron playing at the Abasi Booth!


----------



## Lorcan Ward

InHiding said:


> I've probably read dozens of posts during the years saying "it has the best neck I've ever tried" etc. so that's pointless too



One mans dream neck is an unplayable 2x4 to another. Its one of the biggest cons of buying a guitar without trying it first.


----------



## lilstryer

jephjacques said:


> Just put my deposit in.


Which color!


----------



## Hollowway

frank falbo said:


> PLEASE, everyone chip in to a gofundme so that this happens as soon as possible.



 Great idea!!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Hollowway said:


> This will come as a surprise to no one, but I REEEEEALLLLY want a pink 8 with a maple FB.


neon pink or road flare red would be the tits. I would do terrible things for an rg550 inspired headless.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

So I'm gonna do it. I havn't had a custom that I'd want to keep long term in a LONG time, and my Strandy and KxK builds are just gone, so this will be the one. Soon as headless specs drop I'll make a decision and send them my specs. Should be amazing, will report back asap.


----------



## Albake21

glassmoon0fo said:


> So I'm gonna do it. I havn't had a custom that I'd want to keep long term in a LONG time, and my Strandy and KxK builds are just gone, so this will be the one. Soon as headless specs drop I'll make a decision and send them my specs. Should be amazing, will report back asap.


Definitely looking forward to a NGD post!


----------



## KnightBrolaire




----------



## Slunk Dragon

That bass guitar concept is pretty wild, but I really like the modifications he did to it.

It looks like these guys really are pushing for innovations that they want to personally see. Much more love for these guys since I've been seeing some of their final products.


----------



## ImBCRichBitch

Being that RFR is possibly one of my favourite colours for a guitar, if they made a 27 inch 7 in rfr i would chip out my whole pay check for a month for one. Especialy if it has the narrow spacing


----------



## Jonathan20022

ImBCRichBitch said:


> Being that RFR is possibly one of my favourite colours for a guitar, if they made a 27 inch 7 in rfr i would chip out my whole pay check for a month for one. Especialy if it has the narrow spacing



You can customize the spacing for an extra fee.

Put me in for a Multiscale 6 or a straight scale 6 with a Floyd! Just gotta hash out the details and figure out specs.


----------



## BigViolin

Jonathan20022 said:


> You can customize the spacing for an extra fee.
> 
> Put me in for a Multiscale 6 or a straight scale 6 with a Floyd! Just gotta hash out the details and figure out specs.



Do you have the stock spacing numbers and options for custom? I figure they will be on the site eventually but bet they are swamped right now and wonder if you had comtacted them. Thanks!


----------



## Jonathan20022

Unfortunately not, I just had a few other option questions. But it says it's an option on their website, but Frank is updating the options on the website soon.


----------



## jwade

Hollowway said:


> This will come as a surprise to no one, but I REEEEEALLLLY want a pink 8 with a maple FB.



I hope you do it, a hot pink version done like the original prototypes with the gloss bevels, and a really figured Birdseye maple FB would be bananas.


----------



## Hollowway

jwade said:


> I hope you do it, a hot pink version done like the original prototypes with the gloss bevels, and a really figured Birdseye maple FB would be bananas.



I doubt I can swing the cost, but I’d forgotten about the matte/gloss top on those. That would really be cool!


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Hmm. 

You know, at first my interest in Abasi Guitars was just to see what was being cooked up and rather surface level. The more I learn and see though, the more deeply interested I become. That bass really grabbed my attention. 

I'm starting to squirrel away funds for a full blown custom 8 string, but I'm going to keep my eye on these. I'm already planning on using Tosin's pickups, so if I can get a 27" scale straight fret with an Evertune, I may go the Abasi route.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

So, since it's been on my mind, I'm gonna drop my projected specs here and get the GAS rolling.

I'm waiting to see the headless design, but if alls well I'll probably go that route. I'm thinking I'll go with what I usually spec my personal builds with, as they're my two favorite wood combos aesthetically. 

8 string headless. Either cedar body, curly redwood top, ebony board. OR, swamp ash body, figured myrtlewood top, and macassar ebony board. both with roasted maple neck, black hardware with gold screws (if they'll do it), and stainless frets.

If those are too expensive for my budget, a simple pearl white finish and ebony board. Whatever way I go, Tosin's design ideas are almost always right up my alley. Its like we were dropped off from the same mothership, only he has tallent


----------



## Jonathan20022

I feel like if I don't go with Richlite I'll be doing a disservice to myself because I'm finally dealing with sharp fret ends for the first time in my life  pretty much the only thing I miss about Florida is the abundant humidity.

I'm going to end up going with a 6 String Multiscale or Straight Scale with a Floyd, either Koa/Mahogany Body with a Roasted Maple Neck + Richlite Board. Or Swamp Ash + Flame Maple Top with some sort of finish and a Wenge Neck + Richlite Fretboard. Black Hardware on both configurations.

Another cool note, is that apparently the rechargable usb battery pack will be a standard option fitted onto every one of these unless you prefer a passive set of pickups. Huge fan of that, not into 9 Volt batteries lying around just for guitars.


----------



## StevenC

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfFDjFDFWMD/


----------



## Anquished

StevenC said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BfFDjFDFWMD/



That looks pretty sweet!


----------



## Lorcan Ward

That looks great! Turned off black guitars but that would be amazing with the wood specs of the 8.


----------



## jephjacques

Love it. Psyched for progress shots of mine!


----------



## mnemonic

Looks pretty slick in Black


----------



## teqnick

that black one... I need new undies


----------



## Randy

Hard to say with it disassembled but I think the body shape definitely works best like that. Solid finish, fanned and headless.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Yeeeeeees, this will be fantastic in pearl white =)


----------



## StevenC

Interesting headpiece with the ball ends at the head.


----------



## lewstherin006

I did a video on how I thought the guitars played and felt when I tried them at NAMM 2018. Do you think they are worth all the hype around them?


----------



## ArtDecade

Outside of this forum and a few other highly specialized "guitar" forums, there is no hype around these guitars. 95 percent of guitar players don't even know what they are or who he is.


----------



## lewstherin006

ArtDecade said:


> Outside of this forum and a few other highly specialized "guitar" forums, there is no hype around these guitars. 95 percent of guitar players don't even know what they are or who he is.


95% of guitarist dont know guitars outside of fender and gibson


----------



## ArtDecade

That is exactly the point. A relatively unknown guitarist starting a guitar company doesn't generate loads of hype. You are taking a lens and hyper-focusing on a very small sample of guitar players. I have thousands of posts on this site and I have never once listened to his music... I only know about him from reading posts.


----------



## technomancer

ArtDecade said:


> That is exactly the point. A relatively unknown guitarist starting a guitar company doesn't generate loads of hype. You are taking a lens and hyper-focusing on a very small sample of guitar players. I have thousands of posts on this site and I have never once listened to his music... I only know about him from reading posts.



Nah, he's posting a click bait thread title in an attempt to spur views of a youtube channel 

That said, great guitar player teams up with great luthier, there will be some hype in that musical sector.


----------



## ArtDecade

Over at *The Gear Page*, the only mention of Abasi Guitars _at all_ during 2018 was in regards to NAMM and it went as follows:

SargeBaker: Abasi Guitars are supposed to be there but I can't seem to track down a booth #...
Katzenkönig: Searched for them, zero results at least when I search.
KES: Guitar World says booth 4130 - A Little Thunder pickups. Actually after reading about them, I'm interested in the A Little Thunder pups, A Little Thunder / Abasi - 4130

Not exactly buzzing.


----------



## bostjan

Umm, there is hype behind these guitars, but mostly just on this forum only.

It's a guitar that had its own thread years before anyone even saw a photo of one. It's a guitar that we talk about regularly despite almost no one here having had played one. That's pretty much the textbook definition of "hype."

But really, who cares whether they are hyped or not? At the end of the day, they are either good instruments or not, and are either at a fair price or not.


----------



## xCaptainx

You're probably going to be the *only* person in this thread that has had a hands on demo with this guitar. 

That is of course, if your question is an honest one and not a poor attempt at a asking for a click. 

A more transparent 'hey, check out my video' approach would have earned a click btw.


----------



## MFB

ArtDecade said:


> Over at *The Gear Page*, the only mention of Abasi Guitars _at all_ during 2018 was in regards to NAMM and it went as follows:
> 
> SargeBaker: Abasi Guitars are supposed to be there but I can't seem to track down a booth #...
> Katzenkönig: Searched for them, zero results at least when I search.
> KES: Guitar World says booth 4130 - A Little Thunder pickups. Actually after reading about them, I'm interested in the A Little Thunder pups, A Little Thunder / Abasi - 4130
> 
> Not exactly buzzing.



Yeah, but I don't know if TGP has quite got their ear to the ground with what the kids like these days, considering the age of their average member is what, nearing retirement?


----------



## ArtDecade

MFB said:


> Yeah, but I don't know if TGP has quite got their ear to the ground with what the kids like these days, considering the age of their average member is what, nearing retirement?



Sure enough, but they do generate a huge amount of traffic through their site. Out of the hundreds of thousands of posts since the start of the year, that was everything said about Abasi.


----------



## Randy

ArtDecade said:


> Sure enough, but they do generate a huge amount of traffic through their site. Out of the hundreds of thousands of posts since the start of the year, that was everything said about Abasi.



You're entirely correct but the BRJ Black Friday implosion should be enough of an indication to you of the volume of people who get their inspiration from gear posted on here or the several spin-off accounts across social media. The SSO market (and extended family) IS a self sufficient market, depending on what you're peddling.

And that dynamic makes it worthy of saying something "has buzz" even if the buzz is here only. No asterisk necessary.


----------



## Avedas

lewstherin006 said:


> 95% of guitarist dont know guitars outside of fender and gibson


Yep. Go to a more generalized beginner forum like the guitar reddit and it's just strats, teles, and LPs galore.


MFB said:


> Yeah, but I don't know if TGP has quite got their ear to the ground with what the kids like these days, considering the age of their average member is what, nearing retirement?


I've wandered into TGP a handful of times through Google search results while researching gear and every time I get bombarded with dad rock and "I've been playing Gibson for 40 years".


----------



## lewstherin006

xCaptainx said:


> You're probably going to be the *only* person in this thread that has had a hands on demo with this guitar.
> 
> That is of course, if your question is an honest one and not a poor attempt at a asking for a click.
> 
> A more transparent 'hey, check out my video' approach would have earned a click btw.



If you read what the text I put in my actual post, I did say that I tried them and the video was about me giving my thoughts on it. The title is click batey yes, but that is just for youtube. Youtube is about to murder my channel ( I wont be able to schedule videos or even have ending scenes because im under what they require to be part of the youtube partner program) so Im trying to drive as much traffic as I can.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I'd have to try one first. I don't know where I would do that though. Not many "progressive" musicians around me


----------



## Albake21

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I'd have to try one first. I don't know where I would do that though. Not many "progressive" musicians around me


I'd love to try so many boutique guitars, but all I have is a shitty Guitar Center and Sam Ash with $200 guitars that are WAY out of tune and really need a setup.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

lewstherin006 said:


> The title is click batey yes, but that is just for youtube. Youtube is about to murder my channel ( I wont be able to schedule videos or even have ending scenes because im under what they require to be part of the youtube partner program) so Im trying to drive as much traffic as I can.



Good lord.


----------



## lewstherin006

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Good lord.




Yes our lord, John Petrucci, is good.


----------



## A-Branger

lewstherin006 said:


> Yes our lord, John Petrucci, is good.


all hail Lord JP!


----------



## Vyn

A-Branger said:


> all hail Lord JP!



Thus In The Name of God, the Lord created the Theater in seven days and seven nights. The Dance of Eternity would finally begin.

Shit posting aside, that white pearl finish. Daymn.


----------



## StevenC

Headpiece reminds me off a Toone. It'd be so cool if the headless models had Toone hardware.


----------



## oniduder

this thread appears to have gone completely off the rails

but the more i think about the guitar, i care less about it

and i'm quite agnostic with the JP lord thingy

the lord we doth spake of i assume should be where i have a feeling in my nether and heart/soul region?

too bad there is nothing but a feeling of emptiness and knowing that there is nothing in this world seen or unseen that is not total hot garbage and pointless in some grand universal sense

ie all is BS and some construct to allow me to get through my pathetic existence as i march towards the cold slumber forever and reach my last breath

anywho, 

luckily i won't remember any of it, including this lame thread and my posts in it

and the world won't remember either and nothing is certain in our tiny minds that time will destroy all

so mind meaning where you can make it

other wise who cares, and the guitar is just a guitar, no matter, you can get a decent "tone" (however you describe that or mean by that) from an f-in broom a single string a half decent pick up

so now that we've come to some concensus that everything is futile and no meaning can be had except what ever meaning you make and believe is worth it for you, 

can we talk about the guitar and it's huge statistical probability of a ridiculous failure?

thank you

seacrest out!

ps/ screw 3300 US, i'm buying mine from china


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Damn near cut myself on all that edge


----------



## oniduder

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> Damn near cut myself on all that edge



the edge lord cometh!

lol

next i'll be quoting nietzsche or rick and morty, whatever is more popular at the moment or writing

or i'll start cutting myself, (sorry to all people who deal with actual self-harm (mental physical or emotional (I personally make horrible decisions in my life which result in harming myself)))

my shade is too strong


----------



## AxeHappy

Interestingly the point of Nietzsche's work was that despite the fact that there is no higher power or overarching meaning to life or any of those silly "Big Questions," people ask and act like are important life is indeed worth living. You can strive to be the best you can and have an impact. Maybe not an impact like some Fantasy hero but an impact on the life you live and the life of those around you. That leading a good and fulfilling life is still possible and worth it despite Nihilism being "real."

Nietzsche would hate the ever loving fuck out of how edgelords use his work.


----------



## oniduder

AxeHappy said:


> Interestingly the point of Nietzsche's work was that despite the fact that there is no higher power or overarching meaning to life or any of those silly "Big Questions," people ask and act like are important life is indeed worth living. You can strive to be the best you can and have an impact. Maybe not an impact like some Fantasy hero but an impact on the life you live and the life of those around you. That leading a good and fulfilling life is still possible and worth it despite Nihilism being "real."
> 
> Nietzsche would hate the ever loving fuck out of how edgelords use his work.



why ask why

there isn't an answer, 

all is a construct and stories we tell ourselves all of it, even the concept of self

woopty doo 

the guitar is too expensive


----------



## Shoeless_jose

just eat Arby's


----------



## Avedas

oniduder said:


> why ask why
> 
> there isn't an answer,
> 
> all is a construct and stories we tell ourselves all of it, even the concept of self
> 
> woopty doo
> 
> the guitar is too expensive


Maybe if you didn't drink Starbucks and eat avocados every day you could afford a guitar. Goddamn millennials.


----------



## narad

Avedas said:


> Maybe if you didn't drink Starbucks and eat avocados every day you could afford a guitar. Goddamn millennials.



Dude has an Oni...


----------



## oniduder

and i'm gluten free, cage free, and i pick out my meat prior to eating any

not just lobsters, chicken, beef, pork, (including bacon (not kosher (oh the fuck well))) hell when i eat soy i pick the beans

yes an ONI is like idk 4500+ US but that guitar is ridiculously expensive, i mean whoa and there!

millennials, HA!, i'm fucking retired

ciao


----------



## Avedas

Did your sense of humor retire alongside your career?


----------



## AxeHappy

I was expecting it to hit the 4K mark so it seems cheap to me. 

Being familiar with Frank's work, $3200ish seems almost bizarrely well priced.


----------



## Hollowway

Avedas said:


> Maybe if you didn't drink Starbucks and eat avocados every day you could afford a guitar. Goddamn millennials.



 (I'm assuming this was a joke. Mainly because I LOVE dry humor and antijokes. And I did a spit take on this!)


----------



## A-Branger

funny how everyone love to bash millennials as if they were the new young kids on the block, yet technically millennials starts 1981 so pretty much anyone in their mid 20's to mid 30's lol. Or in other word the people who could afford these types of guitars


----------



## Avedas

A-Branger said:


> funny how everyone love to bash millennials as if they were the new young kids on the block, yet technically millennials starts 1981 so pretty much anyone in their mid 20's to mid 30's lol. Or in other word the people who could afford these types of guitars


I'm only 24, I'll bash all the millennials I want thank you very much.


----------



## narad

It just gets worse every year. Tide pods wasn't a millennials thing.


----------



## KnightBrolaire




----------



## theicon2125

KnightBrolaire said:


>



Does that make Fishmans more or less hipster?


----------



## A-Branger

Avedas said:


> I'm only 24, I'll bash all the millennials I want thank you very much.


you technically still are a millennial if Im not wrong. Problem is not the bashing. Problem is that people think "millennials" means the current 15-20 yer olds or something like that, msot of the time they use it to reffer to the younger generation than they are, the name gets trown around that much that not many people know that they are referring to their own generation.

I think it stupid to put people in labels of generations specially when they consist of roughly 10 years periods. I have 4/8/10 years difference with all my brothers, Im not even close to be like them. At the end of it the whole thing is the classic "back in my day" stupidity.

Either way, Abasi guitars eh?... prety cool stuff so far


----------



## MaxOfMetal

See Frank, these are your customers. Still want to make guitars now?


----------



## frank falbo

If they pay for the guitars? Then yeah, I’m pretty equal opportunity in that regard. 

Come get me when someone starts talking about the dalbergias, or fret size, or titebond or something I can actually help with.


----------



## wannabguitarist

frank falbo said:


> dalbergias



Is this a West African tree or a venereal disease?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

any other pics of the headless version yet?


wannabguitarist said:


> Is this a West African tree or a venereal disease?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dalbergias


----------



## narad

Yea man, people are just killing time until you post a headless design.

In the meantime though, I don't know if anyone posted this but thought it was a pretty cool the purple/natural play off each other:







I think the black "sci-fi"-y pickups look a bit off with the naturalness of the rest of the guitar here. Any chance you'd do some matching wood covers? Could you route for the non-soapbar route slant 8s?


----------



## Albake21

narad said:


> Yea man, people are just killing time until you post a headless design.
> 
> In the meantime though, I don't know if anyone posted this but thought it was a pretty cool the purple/natural play off each other:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the black "sci-fi"-y pickups look a bit off with the naturalness of the rest of the guitar here. Any chance you'd do some matching wood covers? Could you route for the non-soapbar route slant 8s?


The choice of woods looks very strange with the gold hardware. At the same time, I'm not sure if chrome or black would make a difference.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Albake21 said:


> The choice of woods looks very strange with the gold hardware. At the same time, I'm not sure if chrome or black would make a difference.


It wouldn't make much of a difference if the hardware color was changed. The contrast between all the blonde maple/ash against purpleheart just doesn't work visually imo. a solid or trans black finish with black hardware would keep the focus on the purpleheart board and look pretty cool.


----------



## narad

KnightBrolaire said:


> It wouldn't make much of a difference if the hardware color was changed. The contrast between all the blonde maple/ash against purpleheart just doesn't work visually imo. a solid or trans black finish with black hardware would keep the focus on the purpleheart board and look pretty cool.



I have the complete opposite opinion, so chalk this one up to pure subjectivity. 

My own take is that it's not the gold hardware itself that doesn't jive with the above scheme, but that with the pickups being black plastic, you've got basically 4 not-necessarily-complementary things going on. Definitely seen plenty of purple heart board, maple _burl_ tops with gold hardware that have been great, but they've also had bobbins that were either purpleheart or maple burl.


----------



## jwade

I'd really like to see one of these with passive pickups, I feel like Tosin's previous sig pickups would work well (visually).


----------



## Kyle Jordan

frank falbo said:


> If they pay for the guitars? Then yeah, I’m pretty equal opportunity in that regard.
> 
> Come get me when someone starts talking about the dalbergias, or fret size, or titebond or something I can actually help with.



Ok. So I see Titebond mentioned repeatedly in reference to guitars. Is it that genuinely superior to other glues are just more guitar lore?

And let’s really light this motha’... 

Frank, what’s your opinion on tone wood for solidbody guitars?

XD


----------



## StevenC

Serious question for Frank: What is the headless hardware? That's the only thing I've cared about since the announcement of headless guitars, and the picture of the ball ends at the nut has only increased my interest.


----------



## gienek

Frank, any neck reinforcements? How profile is compared to TAM ibby neck?


----------



## frank falbo

Kyle Jordan said:


> Ok. So I see Titebond mentioned repeatedly in reference to guitars. Is it that genuinely superior to other glues are just more guitar lore?
> 
> And let’s really light this motha’...
> 
> Frank, what’s your opinion on tone wood for solidbody guitars?
> 
> XD


Titebond 1 is just the "right" glue for many guitar applications. Not all of course, but for most of the joints, most of the temperature inversions the guitar may endure throughout life....most of this, most of that....That said, most of the reasons that Titebond 2 and 3 exist; their strengths and weaknesses are also not relevant to guitar making. 

Remove "tone" from the sentence, as it's superfluous, and my opinion on wood for solidbody guitars is that it has a significant impact on the way the guitar string vibrates, as well as the bio-feedback loop between the player, the guitar, and the amplification that is pushing sound pressure into the air (if there is one) which, in turn, does impact the plugged in sound as well as the unplugged sound. Also forgive me, you've asked for my opinion, but I have accidentally included some facts.


----------



## frank falbo

gienek said:


> Frank, any neck reinforcements? How profile is compared to TAM ibby neck?


The standard Tosin necks are very slim and fast, for 6/7/8, with an alternative neck profile for the 6 available that's more round and classic in nature, with some of the tricks that I put into the Falbo electric necks. 

We are not using the kind of reinforcements that you have to remove wood to insert, such as titanium or graphite rods. But its an interesting word to use only because I'd say that we self-reinforce the neck by the way I arrange the grain. We're primarily using 2-piece necks where, I invert the grain pattern on the treble side vs. the bass side. The result is a neck that looks sort of "bookmatched" but the real benefit is that anything that the wood on the treble side would want to do (migration over time and circumstance) is equally opposed (and therefore controlled) by the wood on the bass side. It's like a self-balancing, self-correcting neck. It doesn't impact the need for a truss rod, it takes adjustments just like any other neck, it just resists doing anything "weird" or asymmetrical. 

Another side benefit (and I'm fine if people want to consider this nebulous or are skeptic, I don't say this to be "salesy"...) is that the necks themselves have a more harmonious response to vibration, because the density, inherent tension, and grain direction are equal/opposite.


----------



## frank falbo

StevenC said:


> Serious question for Frank: What is the headless hardware? That's the only thing I've cared about since the announcement of headless guitars, and the picture of the ball ends at the nut has only increased my interest.


Unfortunately I still have to keep that confidential at this time. I apologize.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

frank falbo said:


> Remove "tone" from the sentence, as it's superfluous, and my opinion on wood for solidbody guitars is that it has a significant impact on the way the guitar string vibrates, as well as the bio-feedback loop between the player, the guitar, and the amplification that is pushing sound pressure into the air (if there is one) which, in turn, does impact the plugged in sound as well as the unplugged sound. Also forgive me, you've asked for my opinion, but I have accidentally included some facts.





frank falbo said:


> Another side benefit (and I'm fine if people want to consider this nebulous or are skeptic, I don't say this to be "salesy"...) is that the necks themselves have a more harmonious response to vibration, because the density, inherent tension, and grain direction are equal/opposite.



Before anyone responds to these claims, try to remember that Mr. Falbo put them forward because he was asked, and not because he’s eager to engage in rigorous debate with the quality of mind one would find at sevenstring.org (the 21st century-successor to bowling alleys).

I disagree with much of the above, but my disagreement affects nothing and nobody. I’m hoping (in one hand) that people will communicate from a place of respect for the fact that a guy as busy as Frank is is here indulging us at all.


----------



## narad

Thanks, dad.


----------



## frank falbo

Yeah I’m joking a little about saying certain things are factual, but there are indeed fact based reasons for some of the stuff I said. I’ve personally had the luxury of being a part of much of the R&D first hand. 

But take the split/inverted grain neck for example. I can hit the raw board like a marimba and listen/record how it behaves vibrationally. Then I can split that same board, and join it in my symmetrical and inverted grain pattern, and then it’s “more” of what luthiers want to hear when they hit the neck blank like a marimba. 

At the same time I concede to the point that there will be players to whom this information is meaningless.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Correct building techniques >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Neck Reinforcements

I've had two guitars with Titanium neck reinforcements and they still bent and moved during seasonal changes, one warping, while I've two customs built guitars by a very experienced builder that are just wood and a truss rod and absolutely rock solid. In nearly 2 years I haven't touched the truss rod or saddles once and the setup/action is still the exact same. Correct timbers, drying and construction methods are what counts, one of these are wrong and the neck will still be prone to shifts regardless of whatever fancy reinforcements a company is boasting. 



frank falbo said:


> FYI some have asked about how the string scale is calculated for the 6 and the 7. Since I have the spreadsheet open right now I'll paste it here. The basic premise is that with the 25.5 - 27.5" fan on the 8 string, we are making the 7 string and 6 string be the same string length as the 8. In other words, whether a 6 or 7, all the strings will feel the same way they feel on Tosin's 8. The actual numbers are below. Now I have to decide how much I want to round the numbers for the website. Somehow I think "26.92534" is kind of hard for people to remember...
> 
> String Scale
> 1 25.50000
> 2 25.78369
> 3 26.06809
> 4 26.35318
> 5 26.63894
> 6 26.92534
> 7 27.21237
> 8 27.50000



Cheers for that! I wouldn't worry about rounding numbers off since Ibanez rounded their 27.25" multscale to 27.2" on spec sheets. For the 7 27.2" works and the 6 could be 26.9". Theres no reason to list any more numbers since intonating is going to change them anyway. Having the individual scale lengths listed will help people trying to figure out custom string gauges. 

You mentioned earlier that this forum seems a bit more critical and nitpicky. A few reasons for that is a lot of us are very experienced when it comes to hi-end guitars and the fine details, more so than any guitar forum I've been on. Also we've had a lot of cowboy builders who've ran off with peoples money. I can raise my hand to both of those, having had a builder run off with my money and on the complete opposite end I'm a happy owner of my own stradivarius guitar. We mean well but we are just looking out for each other.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

frank falbo said:


> Yeah I’m joking a little about saying certain things are factual, but there are indeed fact based reasons for some of the stuff I said. I’ve personally had the luxury of being a part of much of the R&D first hand.
> 
> But take the split/inverted grain neck for example. I can hit the raw board like a marimba and listen/record how it behaves vibrationally. Then I can split that same board, and join it in my symmetrical and inverted grain pattern, and then it’s “more” of what luthiers want to hear when they hit the neck blank like a marimba.
> 
> At the same time I concede to the point that there will be players to whom this information is meaningless.



I must say although I love Tosin, not nuts about the guitar body shape... however I've loved the amount of knowledge you've contributed to this thread, stuff like this is what is so awesome about the internet.

Keep it up, seems like awesome stuff.


----------



## oniduder

Avedas said:


> Did your sense of humor retire alongside your career?



i got dad jokes, sorry

and yes i'm being a bit more than silly puerile or just plain stupid, which i'm actually sorry for, i didn't want to derail the thread

there is something to be said for people who work for musicians (luthiers, amp builders) 

b/c i'm a bit crazy to begin with, and i'd imagine most "musicians" are as well, in quotes because i don't want to consider myself one

it'd be like calling myself an artist when in actual fact i suck at art and music

anywho, the guitar looks splendiferous and i want it pretty bad, price actually is relatively reasonable, especially with the little options semi-custom type stuff

if i had to complain or make one comment, it's that i hate guitars that don't have strings beyond the nut that line up with the strings on the fret board (probably a better way to phrase that (oh well))

thanks and ciao


----------



## narad

oniduder said:


> if i had to complain or make one comment, it's that i hate guitars that don't have strings beyond the nut that line up with the strings on the fret board (probably a better way to phrase that (oh well))



Straight string pull.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Lorcan Ward said:


> I've had two guitars with Titanium neck reinforcements and they still bent and moved during seasonal changes.



A builder with their priorities in order can make a stable neck out of one piece of maple. Opposing grain is a bullet point for Falbo for the same reason KTS is for Ibanez: To lower the chance of warranty claims in mass-production and preserve reputation should some batch of wood prove uncooperative down the line (eg. “My guitar fell over and sprayed glue all over the room”). How does “fancy reinforcement some company is boasting” not describe both? It’s all good when it works, and bad when it doesn’t.

My Strandberg has laminated roasted maple and carbon-graphite, But requires adjustment more often than the one piece of flamed maple reinforced with rods that my Charvel Govan does. They both require more maintenance than the carbon-exoskeleton Parker necks, which themselves require more than my all-carbon-graphite Steinberger necks.

So long as you’re dealing with wood, you can’t manage what you can’t measure. I’d rather have redundant reinforcement than not.


----------



## jephjacques

my neck requires adjustment if I spend too much time playing video games


----------



## Veldar

Lol at the basses having guitar pickups in them.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Veldar said:


> Lol at the basses having guitar pickups in them.



Fun fact: the original EMG 707 pickups were slightly tweaked bass pickups. 

Pretty sure with the Fluence preamp they just need to tweak the EQ and boom. Bass pickup


----------



## spudmunkey

Veldar said:


> Lol at the basses having guitar pickups in them.



I mean...basses with guitar pickups have been around for decades...basically since electric basses exited.


----------



## frank falbo

Using Tosin's pickups on the bass is partly testimony to the Fluence tech, in that it does extend down to the lowest frequencies. Tosin's pickups aren't just "guitar" pickups, they're able to handle very extreme extended range.


----------



## Veldar

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Fun fact: the original EMG 707 pickups were slightly tweaked bass pickups.
> 
> Pretty sure with the Fluence preamp they just need to tweak the EQ and boom. Bass pickup



The EMG thing is interesting.

I'm definitely skeptical, Tosin's sound even on his lowest string definitely isn't the same as a bass E, I wouldn't even say as deep feeling as a E on a bass VI.

But I guess we'll see once they come out.


----------



## Lemons

Veldar said:


> The EMG thing is interesting.
> 
> I'm definitely skeptical, Tosin's sound even on his lowest string definitely isn't the same as a bass E, I wouldn't even say as deep feeling as a E on a bass VI.
> 
> But I guess we'll see once they come out.



Remember that a lot of that "bass sound" has more to do with a longer scale length and higher string tension, which gives a stronger fundamental tone.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I will say the scooped nature, extreme lows, and extreme highs of the Abasi in single coil mode remind me of a Music Man pickup. Wonder if the passive mode would be similar to a J bass or something?


----------



## GXPO

That was quick... 

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32817109245.html



I am in no way advertising this because I condone it.. I just found it funny.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

GXPO said:


> That was quick...
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32817109245.html
> 
> 
> 
> I am in no way advertising this because I condone it.. I just found it funny.


those have been floating around for a while, probably close to 2 yrs now.


----------



## GXPO

Well shut my mouth


----------



## Go To Bed Jessica

Veldar said:


> The EMG thing is interesting.
> I'm definitely skeptical, Tosin's sound even on his lowest string definitely isn't the same as a bass E, I wouldn't even say as deep feeling as a E on a bass VI.



But why would it sound like a bass E?

Tosin's guitar isn't a bass. It doesn't have bass strings or a bass scale length. Guitars have snappy attack and lots of harmonic content.

No pickup is going to change that, but that doesn't mean the pickup can't or won't accurately reproduce what an actual bass string does.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

^Yup. Bass VIs sound so huge because of the 30'' neck and the thick-AF strings. The Bass VI uses either Strat or Jag pickups, so it's not just the pickups that made the tone.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ^Yup. Bass VIs sound so huge because of the 30'' neck and the thick-AF strings. The Bass VI uses either Strat or Jag pickups, so it's not just the pickups that made the tone.


I have mini humbuckers in my schecter bass vi and they have a ton of spank and chunk, especially in the split modes. it's definitely a combo of the strings/scale/pickups since I can also get more "normal" guitar esque sounds just by switching pickup positions


----------



## ElRay

frank falbo said:


> ... But take the split/inverted grain neck for example. I can hit the raw board like a marimba and listen/record how it behaves vibrationally. Then I can split that same board, and join it in my symmetrical and inverted grain pattern, and then it’s “more” of what luthiers want to hear when they hit the neck blank like a marimba. ...


This sounds a bit like the tonewood straw man. Tonewood-myth proponents agree that two different pieces, or two different treatments of wood will produce different sounds, but nothing predictable or consistent enough that you can listen to a guitar's wood through all the pick-ups, amps, speakers, etc. and say: I can tell that it's a Alder body, with an Ebony fretboard on a 5-piece 3-ply Maple + 2-ply Mahagony neck.


frank falbo said:


> At the same time I concede to the point that there will be players to whom this information is meaningless.


Likely, because there's a difference between a detectable difference in an isolated part and a predictable/exploitable difference in the finished product. 

It's like the hot-rodders that "blue print" car parts. Sure, there's measurable difference between parts that are in spec, but the parts that are "exact" based on your measurement tool are not truly any better than any other part that's in spec.

I'd chalk-up any consistent difference to the luthier -- what ever is in them to be pedantic about tonewoods, spills over into overall construction and/or self-selection by rejecting pieces of wood that "sound out of spec".


----------



## Veldar

Go To Bed Jessica said:


> But why would it sound like a bass E?
> 
> Tosin's guitar isn't a bass. It doesn't have bass strings or a bass scale length. Guitars have snappy attack and lots of harmonic content.
> 
> No pickup is going to change that, but that doesn't mean the pickup can't or won't accurately reproduce what an actual bass string does.



In the first post I did I made it clear I was talking about the pickups in the bass models


----------



## n4t

ElRay said:


> This sounds a bit like the tonewood straw man. Tonewood-myth proponents agree that two different pieces, or two different treatments of wood will produce different sounds, but nothing predictable or consistent enough that you can listen to a guitar's wood through all the pick-ups, amps, speakers, etc. and say: I can tell that it's a Alder body, with an Ebony fretboard on a 5-piece 3-ply Maple + 2-ply Mahagony neck.Likely, because there's a difference between a detectable difference in an isolated part and a predictable/exploitable difference in the finished product.
> 
> It's like the hot-rodders that "blue print" car parts. Sure, there's measurable difference between parts that are in spec, but the parts that are "exact" based on your measurement tool are not truly any better than any other part that's in spec.
> 
> I'd chalk-up any consistent difference to the luthier -- what ever is in them to be pedantic about tonewoods, spills over into overall construction and/or self-selection by rejecting pieces of wood that "sound out of spec".



I really didn't feel like this thread was complete until we had your tone-wood theory. I feel much better now. Whoever you are. I'm sure you must feel better as well, having provided us with vital information we couldn't finish the day without and is almost certainly the truth. Thank you.


----------



## DudeManBrother

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> A builder with their priorities in order can make a stable neck out of one piece of maple. Opposing grain is a bullet point for Falbo for the same reason KTS is for Ibanez: To lower the chance of warranty claims in mass-production and preserve reputation should some batch of wood prove uncooperative down the line (eg. “My guitar fell over and sprayed glue all over the room”). How does “fancy reinforcement some company is boasting” not describe both? It’s all good when it works, and bad when it doesn’t.
> 
> My Strandberg has laminated roasted maple and carbon-graphite, But requires adjustment more often than the one piece of flamed maple reinforced with rods that my Charvel Govan does. They both require more maintenance than the carbon-exoskeleton Parker necks, which themselves require more than my all-carbon-graphite Steinberger necks.
> 
> So long as you’re dealing with wood, you can’t manage what you can’t measure. I’d rather have redundant reinforcement than not.


I knew it... I’m not going to write it out. But I knew it


Carry on my wayward thread :/


----------



## jephjacques

lmao at Fred's fucked up left hand


----------



## jemfloral

jephjacques said:


> lmao at Fred's fucked up left hand



Pretty sure he's just practicing a C chord on his air guitar...


----------



## ElRay

n4t said:


> ... theory ...


"*You keep using that word*. I do not think it means what *you* think it means."  

Show me one double-blind study were listeners can identify the tone woods based on the sound coming out of a speaker, and I'll drop it.


----------



## narad

ElRay said:


> "*You keep using that word*. I do not think it means what *you* think it means."
> 
> Show me one double-blind study were listeners can identify the tone woods based on the sound coming out of a speaker, and I'll drop it.



But he was referring to _your_ theory, not his, and clearly using it in the colloquial sense. As in, the unimportance of wood on tone is something you've theorized.


----------



## ElRay

narad said:


> But he was referring to _your_ theory, not his, and clearly using it in the colloquial sense. As in, the unimportance of wood on tone is something you've theorized.



Sorry. You've got it backwards. I don't have a theory. It's the tonewood mythers that are proposing a theory. The tonewood folks are the ones making the claim. They need to prove their hypothesis and they haven't. That's basic science.

The anti-tonewood people just provide the FACT that there is a complete lack of any proof that tone wood produces any identifiable, predictable, repeatable effect. There's no need to prove the negative, the tonewood mythers haven't proved their claims.

What did n4t provide to prove his point? Nothing, just a Trump-style attempt at an insult, a Trump-style denigration of science/logic ("your tone-wood theory") and a Trump-style hypocritical insinuation that tonewood mythers are allowed to use tonewood as a fact, but as soon as the rational thinking adults point out the flaws in the claims, we've committed a foul and shouldn't point out the nonsense involved.

What has any tonewood myther provided other than straw man arguments (Different woods have different tones. See, we're correct.) and/or the occasional insult? They may not be insulting, they may actually be nice about it, and they may be very skilled players/builders, but that doesn't convert alternate-facts into reality.

All it would take to prove the myth is to provide a straight forward double blind study that shows listeners can identify the tonewood by listening to the sound that comes out of the speakers. Considering this was tried with Stradivarius, modern violins, trained listeners and no speakers, and not only did the experts have equal false-positives and false-negatives, there wasn't even a single violin that was consistently identified either way, I have my doubts.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Who cares man? If other people want to believe Tonewoods affect the output of an instrument through an amp let them be, there are countless places and topics worth debating than this.

If you noticed, Frank didn't reply to you after stating his opinion. And n4t was poking fun at guys like you who feel the need to throw their two cents into the tonewood argument in a place that otherwise doesn't call for it. Yes the burden of proof lies in the person making a claim, but it seems you really want to engage with someone in a full on discussion when no one really feels like doing the same with you.

Just make a thread about it and debate it there, I'm sure willing participants will reveal themselves.


----------



## frank falbo

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> A builder with their priorities in order can make a stable neck out of one piece of maple. Opposing grain is a bullet point for Falbo for the same reason KTS is for Ibanez: To lower the chance of warranty claims in mass-production and preserve reputation should some batch of wood prove uncooperative down the line...


I concur about a mass produced instrument building insurance into their construction methods, but no, personally in this case that's not my motivation, not at all. And certainly not for bullet points. It's too much work for just a marketing bullet point. 



Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> My Strandberg has laminated roasted maple and carbon-graphite, But requires adjustment more often than the one piece of flamed maple reinforced with rods that my Charvel Govan does. They both require more maintenance than the carbon-exoskeleton Parker necks, which themselves require more than my all-carbon-graphite Steinberger necks.


Well, my inverted quartered method doesn't eliminate the need for adjustments either, but it's a very stable and time tested way to make a neck. 



ElRay said:


> This sounds a bit like the tonewood straw man. Tonewood-myth proponents agree that two different pieces, or two different treatments of wood will produce different sounds, but nothing predictable or consistent enough...


I don't see it that way. The 2pc construction works on both sides of the tonewood debate. It's beneficial to the final product as an improvement in stability, including for those who believe there is no audible benefit to having a neck that "pings" a certain way, and it's beneficial to the player who _does_ feel that these things cumulatively make a difference in the plugged in tone.



ElRay said:


> Likely, because there's a difference between a detectable difference in an isolated part and a predictable/exploitable difference in the finished product.


These differences don't have to be detectable to the listener at the end of the signal chain. They only have to alter the way the artist feels while they are playing the instrument(s). Even if you consider it placebo, it's all part of the experience. Sometimes people feel different inside a red sports car. 



ElRay said:


> I'd chalk-up any consistent difference to the luthier -- what ever is in them to be pedantic about tonewoods, spills over into overall construction and/or self-selection by rejecting pieces of wood that "sound out of spec".


Thanks? I think that's a compliment LOL.


----------



## frank falbo

ElRay said:


> All it would take to prove the myth is to provide a straight forward double blind study that shows listeners can identify the tonewood by listening to the sound that comes out of the speakers.


No offense meant, but _this_ is your straw man. In an amplified environment, the wood's influence on tone is reinforced by the SPL pushing out of the speaker into the air. If you lined up 5 solid mahogany Juniors for example, and 5 solid maple Juniors, similar in every other way possible, an experienced artist (or I) could show you how the mahogany ones "do" certain things and the maple ones do something different. Whether it's feedback of certain notes, or the midrange character when I'm pushing the amp hard, etc. But of course that would be considered leading, confirmation bias, etc. And everybody still gets their story. Double blind tests simply aren't the correct experiment for the data we'd be looking to extrapolate. Some data about race cars can be collected by who won the race. But other data can only be collected by asking the driver how they felt. Double blind listening only tests are the equivalent of watching the finish line, whereas we want to hear from the driver about how the car behaved in the corners, for example. 

As others have said I'd like for this thread not to devolve into the tonewood debate. I've personally conducted the R&D in this regard, but I work with NDA's and some of my own R&D is proprietary. So I usually bow out of these discussions anyway.


----------



## prlgmnr

ElRay said:


> Sorry. You've got it backwards. I don't have a theory. It's the tonewood mythers that are proposing a theory. The tonewood folks are the ones making the claim. They need to prove their hypothesis and they haven't. That's basic science.



What you're engaging in here isn't science, it's scientism.


----------



## A-Branger

who cares, the guitar body and necks looks pretty  thats what we all care about (even if you dont fully accept it), a beautiful instrument would make you pick it up and play it. The woods used elt it be for the luthier who has the right amount of experience to know what works best in looks, sound, tools, ect ect.

at the end there would be an amazing looking and sounding guitar, the only real question is "what color/finish do you want yours?"


----------



## narad

ElRay said:


> Sorry. You've got it backwards. I don't have a theory. It's the tonewood mythers that are proposing a theory. The tonewood folks are the ones making the claim. They need to prove their hypothesis and they haven't. That's basic science.



Sorry dude, this isn't how science works.


----------



## prlgmnr

narad said:


> Sorry dude, this isn't how science works.


Yeah dude, but that's just like....your hypothesis, man. Have you even run a double blind trial?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

let's get back to talking about the guitars
https://www.instagram.com/p/BfYjHvAnsLh/?hl=en&taken-by=abasiguitars


----------



## narad

KnightBrolaire said:


> let's get back to talking about the guitars
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BfYjHvAnsLh/?hl=en&taken-by=abasiguitars



That's old stuff though, so what are we supposed to talk about?

I still don't catch if my question was answered: do we have to order soapbar pickups?

man, someone needs to throw together a visualizer for different specs/finishes like on the strandberg site. The bevels create some interesting aesthetic opportunities but I can't quite visualize them in my head.


----------



## theicon2125

narad said:


> That's old stuff though, so what are we supposed to talk about?
> 
> I still don't catch if my question was answered: do we have to order soapbar pickups?
> 
> man, someone needs to throw together a visualizer for different specs/finishes like on the strandberg site. The bevels create some interesting aesthetic opportunities but I can't quite visualize them in my head.



They said there will be the option to have other pickups in one of the NAMM videos.


----------



## narad

theicon2125 said:


> They said there will be the option to have other pickups in one of the NAMM videos.



But I'm interested to know if right now you're forced to have soapbars on the 8s, or if you can have open coil slanted pickups instead.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

frank falbo said:


> These differences don't have to be detectable to the listener at the end of the signal chain. They only have to alter the way the artist feels while they are playing the instrument(s). Even if you consider it placebo, it's all part of the experience. Sometimes people feel different inside a red sports car.



 



ElRay said:


> The anti-tonewood people just provide the FACT that there is a complete lack of any proof that tone wood produces any identifiable, predictable, repeatable effect. There's no need to prove the negative, the tonewood mythers haven't proved their claims.



Pickups are proof. If tonewood was a myth then pickup charts would make sense. I wish it was that easy to design a pickup with fixed frequencies. Then you could actually design pickups that would sound consistent from one guitar to another. Pickup EQ charts and descriptions are one of the most inaccurate and unusable pieces of info you can get when it comes to guitar simply because the woods and construction of a guitar can drastically change their sound. Nazgul in a Basswood Ibanez, bright and thin for soloing, Nazgul in a Mahogany Ibby, smooth and thick for soloing. So which is the Nazgul, is it thin or thick?

Do some people just hear a flat neutral sound when they play a guitar  I'm at a bit of advantage since I have very good hearing but I can't understand how people don't hear such distinct changes in a guitars tone. Its like tasting the difference between rasberry and strawberry.


----------



## theicon2125

narad said:


> But I'm interested to know if right now you're forced to have soapbars on the 8s, or if you can have open coil slanted pickups instead.



I highly doubt that we'll be limited to soapbar pickups. Everyone will just have to bear in mind that the pickups will probably cost more because they'll have to be custom made for the angle of the fan.


----------



## narad

theicon2125 said:


> I highly doubt that we'll be limited to soapbar pickups. Everyone will just have to bear in mind that the pickups will probably cost more because they'll have to be custom made for the angle of the fan.



Yea...just trying to..you know...get an answer from Abasi Guitars specifically on what the options are...


----------



## frank falbo

We can do slanted open coil pickups, with a custom price quote.


----------



## narad

frank falbo said:


> We can do slanted open coil pickups, with a custom price quote.



Are the open-coil Fishman Tosin set an option for that (slanted) or would it be the traditional slant options (BKP...)?


----------



## ElRay

*mod edit: let's get back on topic*


----------



## odibrom

*mod edit: send a pm*


----------



## Opion

Man, I gotta give it up to Mr. Falbo from thrusting himself into the lion's den that is SS.org. This is why I will never sell any guitars on this forum - one tiny finish flaw that I forget to mention and I'd probably have to send the whole thing back and eat the shipping  That being said, I am confident Abasi guitars will deliver, but the customer base for these guitars will no doubt give him a run for his money. Stoked to see the first NGD's for these instruments.


----------



## MickD7

I want to commit myself to getting one of these one day in the future. I dig the fact that Frank communicates with the people interested in the guitars. 

I’m setting my sights on a headless 8 string when the day comes.


----------



## narad

Opion said:


> This is why I will never sell any guitars on this forum - one tiny finish flaw that I forget to mention and I'd probably have to send the whole thing back and eat the shipping



Honestly you shouldn't send out a guitar with a finish flaw if you're changing $3-4k. Not a huge market for luxury goods with mass production defects, on any forum.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> Honestly you shouldn't send out a guitar with a finish flaw if you're changing $3-4k. Not a huge market for luxury goods with mass production defects, on any forum.



For real.

I read that and I was like "wat."

Isn't that part of the allure of small shop/single luthier instruments? That more attention to detail is paid?


----------



## Stilicho

Opion said:


> Man, I gotta give it up to Mr. Falbo from thrusting himself into the lion's den that is SS.org. This is why I will never sell any guitars on this forum - one tiny finish flaw that I forget to mention and I'd probably have to send the whole thing back and eat the shipping  That being said, I am confident Abasi guitars will deliver, but the customer base for these guitars will no doubt give him a run for his money. Stoked to see the first NGD's for these instruments.


I think it's good overall though, it alerts people to things like how Kiesel are treating customers at the least


----------



## Opion

narad said:


> Honestly you shouldn't send out a guitar with a finish flaw if you're changing $3-4k. Not a huge market for luxury goods with mass production defects, on any forum.



Just poking fun at the severe levels of OCD you see on this forum. No doubt I'd want every inch of a guitar to be clean in that price range, but mainly talking about the extremely minor details that send people in a tizzy round here.


----------



## frank falbo

Thanks guys. I knew what Opion meant, that its true the more you make yourself available instead of being just a faceless corporation, it's got its pros and cons. For the time being, I'd rather be more connected to everyone.

And you're right, it is a strange catch 22 with instrument making. _"This part of the instrument doesn't look like a machine did it"_ is either an insult or a compliment, depending on who is saying it. Abasi is a balanced blend of machine precision where that is ideal, and skilled hand work where it is ideal. 

I'm sure someday someone will post about how the bass side of the nut isn't as rounded as the treble side, or something like that, and I'll have to explain how the bass side has to come up higher because the strings are thicker, etc. Or eventually I'll be too busy to worry about it, and then some people will defend us and say what I just said, some will think we didn't spend enough time rounding the bass side, someone will say they should return the whole thing for a refund, someone else will say you're supposed to play it, not stare at a zoomed in iphone photo of it...and so on...and the circle of life continues.


----------



## exo

If this thread has accomplished nothing else, it's made me decide that should I ever hit a decent lottery jackpot, I'll be commissioning a full on custom from Frank, if for no other reason than I admire the guy for still posting updates here despite some of the ridiculousness.


----------



## narad

exo said:


> If this thread has accomplished nothing else, it's made me decide that should I ever hit a decent lottery jackpot, I'll be commissioning a full on custom from Frank, if for no other reason than I admire the guy for still posting updates here despite some of the ridiculousness.



Dude, $3k - jackpot not required, just save a little


----------



## Vyn

exo said:


> If this thread has accomplished nothing else, it's made me decide that should I ever hit a decent lottery jackpot, I'll be commissioning a full on custom from Frank, if for no other reason than I admire the guy for still posting updates here despite some of the ridiculousness.



This.


----------



## exo

narad said:


> Dude, $3k - jackpot not required, just save a little



With MY finances....that's indeed "jackpot" territory.


----------



## StevenC

If I won the lottery an Abasi is the third thing I'd get. First the Fortin 33 and if there are any leftovers, they would go on a Dumble and Abasi.


----------



## narad

StevenC said:


> If I won the lottery an Abasi is the third thing I'd get. First the Fortin 33



...if you could afford it.

EDIT: damn, that was kind of the joke I see.


----------



## frank falbo

You all are the best, I swear. 



via Imgflip Meme Generator


----------



## jephjacques

whoa does this mean Oprah is playing an Abasi now too


----------



## jephjacques

Bumping this to say that my order is in the build stage (along with a LOT of others, judging by the pics he sent me) and Frank has been kind enough to offer choices on what specific pieces of wood I'm getting, which is pretty cool IMO!


----------



## GXPO

Share the love? Pics pics pics?


----------



## jephjacques

It's nothing super exciting, just a couple stacks of neck blanks. I'll share if I get the okay from Frank.


----------



## jemfloral

I'm happy to report that while mine is not quite in the build stage, I've also had some great communication with Frank around woods/tops as we prepare to get things underway.

Thanks again for the messages this weekend, Frank!


----------



## Veldar

Dear Frank, are non fanned six string basses with whatever pickups I want an option?

Also I can't wait until these are in the wild.

Cheers, Sam.


----------



## frank falbo

6-string straight basses could be an option, in that we are able to go full custom here at the shop. But at this moment, we have received so many more orders than we could have anticipated, that I would put that kind of custom request off into the future at this stage. 

Though I DO have a 6-String Pau Ferro straight bass fingerboard in the climate room...


----------



## goobaba

Frank this is a little off topic, but do you have any recommendations on books or resources for guitar making? I am interested in trying to build one. How did you get started?


----------



## frank falbo

http://theluthierist.podbean.com/mobile/e/frank-falbo/?ref=earpod.co

Man, this is the closest I can come to sharing how I got started. It’s not helpful to most people. Lots of self-taught things, but forever in debt to the giants upon who’s shoulders I stand. Not sure if the mobile link I posted will work but it’s the first Luthierist Podcast I did if you have to search it out.


----------



## narad

Just wanted to bump this to ask if any of these guitars finished up? I kind of lost track but weren't these announced in ~Feb-ish with like 3 month leads?


----------



## frank falbo

Yep that's about right. First batch is nearing completion now. A lot of the early orders ended up being highly customized. Really dramatic wood combinations, colors, etc. We post a lot of progress pics on social, but in a few weeks and throughout June/July you'll see more completed build glamour photos.


----------



## Albake21

frank falbo said:


> Yep that's about right. First batch is nearing completion now. A lot of the early orders ended up being highly customized. Really dramatic wood combinations, colors, etc. We post a lot of progress pics on social, but in a few weeks and throughout June/July you'll see more completed build glamour photos.


Awesome! Very excited to see some of these finished.


----------



## narad

frank falbo said:


> Yep that's about right. First batch is nearing completion now. A lot of the early orders ended up being highly customized. Really dramatic wood combinations, colors, etc. We post a lot of progress pics on social, but in a few weeks and throughout June/July you'll see more completed build glamour photos.



Are any of the current batch going to be headless?


----------



## I play music

narad said:


> Are any of the current batch going to be headless?


x2
Looks soo much better as a headless!
Also, I'm very curious what hardware they are going to use for the headless.


----------



## frank falbo

narad said:


> Are any of the current batch going to be headless?


Not the first batch, but not never either...


----------



## ptrdmr

Newbie here,
I stood at the NAMM booth for about an hour watching the various players put these through their paces. The build quality seems pretty great, does anyone know if they're offering Alder bodies with a Wenge top? The site says to ask about different combinations, but I wonder if anyone has asked about Alder at all.

Thanks guys!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ptrdmr said:


> Newbie here,
> I stood at the NAMM booth for about an hour watching the various players put these through their paces. The build quality seems pretty great, does anyone know if they're offering Alder bodies with a Wenge top? The site says to ask about different combinations, but I wonder if anyone has asked about Alder at all.
> 
> Thanks guys!


probably easier to contact frank directly on the abasi website and ask him.


----------



## ptrdmr

KnightBrolaire said:


> probably easier to contact frank directly on the abasi website and ask him.



For sure. I didn't want to bug him due to his massive work load as I'm not ready to seriously put money down yet. So I was wondering if anyone here, who's put a deposit down, had asked about it.

I may just send him a message regardless.


----------



## A-Branger

well in Tosin instagram (or abasi guitars, or both) he was testing one with a wenge top


----------



## Vyn

A-Branger said:


> well in Tosin instagram (or abasi guitars, or both) he was testing one with a wenge top



That thing looked gorgeous as well. I'm not a bboutique-wood finished dude normally but that was just porn.


----------



## Takk

First batch has landed on Japan. Price will be around 600,000 JPY.
I can see some rough/dirty edges and paintings on them but the seller (Ikebe) says "because they are hand-maid guitars"...
https://shop.plaza.rakuten.co.jp/ikebe/diary/detail/201805310001/


----------



## Vyn

Takk said:


> First batch has landed on Japan. Price will be around 600,000 JPY.
> I can see some rough/dirty edges and paintings on them but the seller (Ikebe) says "because they are hand-maid guitars"...
> https://shop.plaza.rakuten.co.jp/ikebe/diary/detail/201805310001/



I didn't realise they were doing batches! I thought it was custom orders only!


----------



## Cheap

There's just something about the shape that I dig so much. Really curious to start hearing real world stories about these.

They sent out a communication to their email list that they're temporarily pausing orders. It looks like everyone went nuts ordering these and I really hope they can keep consistency up while getting guitars out in a timely fashion


----------



## cardinal

The design of that guitar is gorgeous. And Floyd Rose!!!! Yes please


----------



## Shoeless_jose

looks great not headless and with the Floyd, doubt I'd ever have the money for one... but looking lovely.


----------



## Hollowway

Oof. 600,000 Yen is a lot of cheddar. Still, I’ll be on the hunt for a used one if they ever pop up in the future.


----------



## Avedas

Wait what. Goddammit they're opening on Monday. They're only showing it on the Rakuten shop though. I wonder if I can go see one in person. If the Shibuya shop gets one I'll go check it out.

600k is about the regular price for a custom shop import, so that's not too surprising.


----------



## Takk

Avedas said:


> Wait what. Goddammit they're opening on Monday. They're only showing it on the Rakuten shop though. I wonder if I can go see one in person. If the Shibuya shop gets one I'll go check it out.
> 
> 600k is about the regular price for a custom shop import, so that's not too surprising.



You can see and buy one at Miyaji Gakki Kanda store now.
https://twitter.com/MiyajiGakki_K/status/1002038105258409986


----------



## Avedas

Takk said:


> You can see and buy one at Miyaji Gakki Kanda store now.
> https://twitter.com/MiyajiGakki_K/status/1002038105258409986


Ah that's where I got my Strandberg. I guess I'll check it next weekend if they're not gone already.


----------



## frank falbo

Takk said:


> First batch has landed on Japan. Price will be around 600,000 JPY.
> I can see some rough/dirty edges and paintings on them but the seller (Ikebe) says "because they are hand-maid guitars"...


Yeah this first batch came out great overall. We are simultaneously finishing a lot of one-off custom orders too. We had extensive discussions with them about these and the finishes. With Burl Maple you have a couple choices; use a thinner, more resonant finish and have some of the Burl’s voids and stuff affect the finish surface, or go thicker until it all fills in and is flatter. 

For these first debut guitars they decided let’s go thin, and let the wood be the wood. I can respect that. When we do the pearl black/white and other paint colors then it’ll be a thicker finish, but I have ways of keeping those thinner than a typical “factory” finish too.


----------



## jephjacques

I got to play the one in Ikebe today. Absolutely killer guitar. It DID have the finish issues people pointed out, make of that what you will. My impressions:

Neck was super comfy, like a Soloist. Fretwork was flawless. Extremely comfy sitting down in standard and classical position. Didn’t even notice the funky jack position, aka it’s good. I am 100% sold on Fishmans, they actually live up to the hype IMO. I wouldn’t retrofit them on a guitar with passives that I already liked, but they’re right up there with the best BKPs in terms of sound, clean and distorted. That single locking trem is also really nice- hadn’t tried one of those before. It’s not worth $5K USD but it’s absolutely a fantastic guitar.


----------



## jephjacques

jephjacques said:


> I got to play the one in Ikebe today. Absolutely killer guitar. It DID have the finish issues people pointed out, make of that what you will. My impressions:
> 
> Neck was super comfy, like a Soloist. Fretwork was flawless. Extremely comfy sitting down in standard and classical position. Didn’t even notice the funky jack position, aka it’s good. I am 100% sold on Fishmans, they actually live up to the hype IMO. I wouldn’t retrofit them on a guitar with passives that I already liked, but they’re right up there with the best BKPs in terms of sound, clean and distorted. That single locking trem is also really nice- hadn’t tried one of those before. It’s not worth $5K USD but it’s absolutely a fantastic guitar.


Other quick thoughts- the pickup selector location is FANTASTIC. You can instantly switch with your pinky and not move your hand from playing position. Upper fret access is also wonderful as long as you’ve got your thumb on the back of the neck.


----------



## Avedas

jephjacques said:


> I got to play the one in Ikebe today. Absolutely killer guitar. It DID have the finish issues people pointed out, make of that what you will. My impressions:
> 
> Neck was super comfy, like a Soloist. Fretwork was flawless. Extremely comfy sitting down in standard and classical position. Didn’t even notice the funky jack position, aka it’s good. I am 100% sold on Fishmans, they actually live up to the hype IMO. I wouldn’t retrofit them on a guitar with passives that I already liked, but they’re right up there with the best BKPs in terms of sound, clean and distorted. That single locking trem is also really nice- hadn’t tried one of those before. It’s not worth $5K USD but it’s absolutely a fantastic guitar.


I'm off to Kanda in the morning to play one of these bad boys at Miyaji. Which Ikebe are they holding these at? I might take a look if possible.


----------



## narad

jephjacques said:


> I wouldn’t retrofit them on a guitar with passives that I already liked, but they’re* right up there with the best BKPs in terms of sound, clean and distorted.*



You had me totally on board until this part.


----------



## Jonathan20022

narad said:


> You had me totally on board until this part.



Says the man who has Aftermaths in his Ken Lawrence 

Fishmans are fantastic, but I share the opinion Jeph has I don't feel like they're different enough to warrant me making the passive -> active switch. But I'll definitely order a guitar with them in the future so they come pre-installed.


----------



## jephjacques

Pickups are super subjective my dudes!


----------



## Jonathan20022

Yeah of course, just poking fun at Narad.  I don't think he'll take that one to heart or anything


----------



## narad

Jonathan20022 said:


> Yeah of course, just poking fun at Narad.  I don't think he'll take that one to heart or anything


----------



## Avedas

I played the Abasi 8 maple today. The 6, 7, and non-maple neck models unfortunately weren't available to try. I absolutely do not know my way around an 8 string but the Abasi spacing made it feel not so daunting like an RG. My absolute favorite part was the neck though. Very smooth on the palm. It was thin but didn't feel Ibanez thin. I'm not sure what the fretboard radius is but coming from a 20" Strandberg it was still natural to play. Upper free access is pretty good, but I'm not at all used to singlecuts. And to top it off, it doesn't feel all that big and the basswood makes the guitar deceptively light.

I don't have a lot to say about the Fishmans other than the coil split sound was really cool. I was plugged into some Fender amp so I didn't really get much out of the gain sounds. I know some people have talked about the quickness of them but I didn't really get that.

Overall it's a great guitar but 600k JPY is just asking too much. Hell of an import cost. I couldn't get a good picture but it had some of that same glue residue or something at the top of the fretboard like that one controversial picture a few months ago. Otherwise I didn't find any visual flaws, and the frets were immaculate. I'd love to get a 6 or 7 someday.


----------



## pfizer

Curious to see if they're eventually going to release headless versions of these; it looks like it's not supposed to have a headstock, although I know Tosin himself doesn't seem to care for headless guitars too much (despite playing Strandbergs and Rick Toone guitars from time to time).

That said, that thing looks very nice. I was under the impression that they were going to use a modified Endurneck profile for these guitars but from your description, it looks like they went with a more traditional neck shape.


----------



## Avedas

pfizer said:


> Curious to see if they're eventually going to release headless versions of these; it looks like it's not supposed to have a headstock, although I know Tosin himself doesn't seem to care for headless guitars too much (despite playing Strandbergs and Rick Toone guitars from time to time).
> 
> That said, that thing looks very nice. I was under the impression that they were going to use a modified Endurneck profile for these guitars but from your description, it looks like they went with a more traditional neck shape.


Yeah I forgot to grab a picture of the back. It's a regular neck shape. Also headless has already been confirmed.


----------



## pfizer

Avedas said:


> Yeah I forgot to grab a picture of the back. It's a regular neck shape. Also headless has already been confirmed.



Shame you couldn't try the 6 string model; I'm curious to know how the neck on that feels. Although since Tosin was an Ibanez player, I'm thinking it's probably pretty close to that. 

Excited to see their headless models, although I imagine that the price is going to be pretty steep.


----------



## jephjacques

The neck on the 6 I played felt a lot like a Jackson Soloist. Thin but not Ibanez thin, slightly U shaped but nothing extreme. All in all very comfortable.


----------



## Takk

Found some interesting pics.
https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop5072/DS04603357/


----------



## Takk

And this...(Not me)
https://twitter.com/NoRi60794734/status/1003147824517615617


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The guitars are perfect, that's merely swamp gas from a weather balloon that was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.


----------



## Avedas

Takk said:


> And this...(Not me)
> https://twitter.com/NoRi60794734/status/1003147824517615617


This is basically exactly what I saw on the one I played.


----------



## Fred the Shred

That last pic in particular hurts. What happened there?


----------



## Avedas

Seems like something is happening with the glue or whatever after it leaves Frank's shop. I wonder if this shipment is not adjusting perfectly to the climate here or something related to that.


----------



## JSanta

Oof, that is not good. The last pic Takk posted looks almost like the glue isn't able to hold the neck in place. All around, it looks like it's not well built and/or a lack of attention to detail on such an expensive build.


----------



## cwhitey2

Those flaws are completely unacceptable for a guitar in price range, hell my $1300 Ibanez was FLAWLESS. I would hate to see what these would look like if the price tag was cut in half


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Looks ready for NAMM.


----------



## StevenC

Headless tuners detailed in the latest email. Just generic bridge pieces similar to the Strandberg type.


----------



## Randy

Takk said:


> Found some interesting pics.
> https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop5072/DS04603357/





Takk said:


> And this...(Not me)
> https://twitter.com/NoRi60794734/status/1003147824517615617





MaxOfMetal said:


> The guitars are perfect, that's merely swamp gas from a weather balloon that was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.



Not that anybody's waiting around for my take but here it is anyway 

Pics in the first post, some of them are 'nothing' some of them are 'something'. Yes, an immaculate guitar that looks like it was just birthed as a finished instrument would be nice but sans the damage in the last pic and maybe the first (unless it's a 'thumb grab' gap), none of what I'm seeing is especially unusual for a handbuilt, low build volume, one man shop. When the arrangement was original announced, what I'm seeing there is fairly inline with what I would've expected and personally, I wouldn't be greatly disappointed by a guitar if it showed up like that, within reason.

Second pic is a different story and it kinda explains itself. It'd be foolish to try to make a structural claim about what's going on there (I already see some rumblings) but put simply, it's an ugly joint.

The duality of the situation boils down to the fact the scrutiny of SSO essentially spares nobody and the fact Frank over sold the notion ALL previously pictured flaws were explainable and "how dare anybody question his abilities and QC".

I've said before, the SSO pile-on brigade can be outrageous, climbing over eachother to scan pixels for fatal flaws in guitars and I've known luthiers that are well regarded around here that would say the same. Likewise, I cut Claas a lot of slack in his thread, despite similar or worse concerns over his fit and finish. But all that's in the context of having a bit of humility.

In a perfect world, the first guitar would get spit out of the assembly line flawless 100% of the time or barring that, the builder can make 1000 prototypes that they can bandsaw for every imperfection until the first 'finished' one reaches anyone's hands. In the real world that doesn't happen and that's fine too. There's a lot of builders (KxK is one that comes to mind) that were still fine tuning the machining process and the builds themselves in the early days while they figured out what 'worked' and they still sold those builds as they went, but that's typically accompanied by either an early adopter discount or deliberately super-low volume output, to make sure the customers are understanding of the process and willing to go along. Eventually you figure out things like what woods are prone to chipping during what part of the milling process, or shaving a little off here or there from the g-code to get a better fit on the neck, etc etc. but it's a process.

I'd personally give these the benefit of all that were it not for the amount of order/pre-orders they've been taking, in the context of already existing scrutiny about the models they were selling still being early in the beta testing/design phase. There's nothing wrong with confidence and the pile-on here can be unreasonable, excessive and sometimes unfounded but Frank came in here and made BIG promises and beat his chest when the first couple, even less severe, questions of QC came up. That post about all the 'low build numbers' being spoken for already, like they deserve a premium instead of a discount or sign of appreciation for being guinea pigs, that was a complete and total absence of any humility whatsoever.


----------



## cardinal

I’m sad now.


----------



## Avedas

The guitar I played was seriously incredible. I'm sure with a microscope and a couple hours I could find more flaws, but the only thing that jumped out at me was the neck joint. I really would buy one if the import price tag weren't so insane. 600k JPY for a model I can't even customize myself. I can only imagine what a proper custom would cost me to get one to my door. Unfortunately that's just the nature of the game.


----------



## JSanta

Small flaws are one thing - the only thing that truly bothers me is that horrendous neck join. No excuse for that.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Yikes that sucks, hope it gets sorted. I still want to order one eventually.

EDIT: Looking more into it, I know from just browsing Digimart over the years that the Japanese are actually incredibly attentive to issues and match up to the amount of microscope detective work SSO is known for. So they'll display any and all problems as clearly as possible for any potential customer to know what they're getting.

But also something to note, that the other 9 guitars don't seem to have any defects photographed by them.

https://www.digimart.net/search?category12Id=359&keywordAnd=abasi&x=0&y=0

Not saying 1/10 having imperfections is a thing to celebrate over, but maybe not as tragic as a lot of people are making it out to be. The neck joint with the glue is a concern for sure, same with the clear missing around the backplate photo. But the rest are dings that could have been part of mishandling during shipping, hard to say without being the person to ship and the receiver.


----------



## frank falbo

Yes. The first few guitars that went to Japan were the initial batch, and toward the end when it came to paint it was a little rushed, but the guitars themselves (wood, glue, basically the entire build prior to paint) are full quality instruments. Nothing about that was rushed.

There’s no “excuse” here but I will say the Japan market was first to jump in and buy a lot of guitars, and they were also very interested in getting the guitars as quickly as possible. So for a guitar with finish damage like that photo, the decision was made to sell it, because apparently for the Japan market there will be someone who would rather have THAT instrument right now, instead of another one in 2 months.

So I need everyone in this thread to please filter this through this lens: Let the Japan market decide if these are worth the Yen, and if so, then that guitar, as-is, will make someone happy because they have one of the first samples, even if with finish damage. It’s “new” as far as warranty is concerned.

The Japan market is being run by a distributor there, so these decisions are strictly for the Japan market and being made by them, for what they think is best for their market.

We have already told them that we’ll happily take these few back for total repaints. It’s just finish related. So that may still happen. Until then, I’m sure these photos will haunt me for the rest of my life.

As for the guitars themselves, I’ll try to break it down to the key points:

*Neck pocket area:* This is a transition from painted guitar to unfinished (oil). Any time you do that, it’s a long, labor intensive process to shape and razor cut the transition. What you see there is a split line between paint and no paint. What it is not: glue. Everyone speculating about the glue situation, no it has nothing to do with glue. It’s not glue you’re seeing.

The white powder is the combination of wetsanding dust and buffing compound. It does clean off. We clean it here and oil the fingerboard edge and it disappears. I think eventually the oil dries and you can see white again. But please understand this: It can be cleaned away, and in the future I will be personally cleaning it away to the point where it is gone and doesn’t reappear. However, it’s a transition from paint to unpainted. So dust can collect in there and would have to be cleaned in the future. We think that to have the neck unfinished is important. We also think the end of the fingerboard should be unfinished too. Other manufacturers will roll the paint up and over the fingerboard edge on the body. I’m not doing that. If I did do that, then there wouldn’t be that hard line that needs to be taped and then cleaned. You can second guess me on that I suppose. But I think it’s the right way to handle that transition.

*Finish damage: From today forward, for worldwide distribution AND all future orders for Japan, there will be absolutely ZERO finish issues allowed/accepted. *They simply will not ever occur from here forward. With Burl Maple we will be adding one more coat of pore filler, and an additional coat of topcoat. Thin finishes are great and resonant, but I won’t be shipping any Burl tops out without a slightly thicker coat of paint. Unless someone chooses a satin finish that purposely has the feel of all the nooks and crannies of the Burl (like they want it to feel raw)

*tl:dr *Yes we know about this stuff; first batch expedited for very enthusiastic Japan market; it will never come up again, neither in Japan nor worldwide, and we are gladly accepting returns if they prefer.

Heck even if someone buys it so they have the earliest serial number and they want to send it back to me for a refinish in a YEAR from now, I’ll do that too!


----------



## Avedas

Jonathan20022 said:


> Yikes that sucks, hope it gets sorted. I still want to order one eventually.
> 
> EDIT: Looking more into it, I know from just browsing Digimart over the years that the Japanese are actually incredibly attentive to issues and match up to the amount of microscope detective work SSO is known for. So they'll display any and all problems as clearly as possible for any potential customer to know what they're getting.
> 
> But also something to note, that the other 9 guitars don't seem to have any defects photographed by them.
> 
> https://www.digimart.net/search?category12Id=359&keywordAnd=abasi&x=0&y=0
> 
> Not saying 1/10 having imperfections is a thing to celebrate over, but maybe not as tragic as a lot of people are making it out to be. The neck joint with the glue is a concern for sure, same with the clear missing around the backplate photo. But the rest are dings that could have been part of mishandling during shipping, hard to say without being the person to ship and the receiver.


They will openly acknowledge and display flaws, but you won't get any sort of discount, especially from the big stores, unless the guitar is seriously damaged. I was looking at a 178k used Strandberg last year from Ishibashi and they wouldn't budge on the price at all. They maybe considered throwing in a few picks or a strap had I bought it on the spot.

All that said, they will definitely sell out. There are so many stupidly high prices guitars here and they all eventually get cycled through, even if it takes a few years.

@frank falbo thanks for the insight. Big fan of the guitar.


----------



## frank falbo

StevenC said:


> Headless tuners detailed in the latest email. Just generic bridge pieces similar to the Strandberg type.


The most significant alteration is the ball bearings between the tuner and the bridge. That’s the most common complaint; that most headless are (or become) difficult to turn for fine adjustments. These bearings, combined with the fine thread pitch are (in our opinion) improvements.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Ah, so the last pic is just residue? In this monitor it actually looked like the guitar had taken structural damage as the line was so dark it looked like it had been separated from the body at the joint.


----------



## frank falbo

Fred the Shred said:


> Ah, so the last pic is just residue? In this monitor it actually looked like the guitar had taken structural damage as the line was so dark it looked like it had been separated from the body at the joint.


Dear God no. Nothing of the sort. It’s just the razor line of separating the paint from the raw. Could definitely be cleaned/scraped better, but also goes away a little when oiled.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Dude, I was like "what the hell did they do to the guitar and why would they shove that on the site damaged like that?!". I mean, there are obvious differences in how countries handle their businesses, but surely that would be a bit much!


----------



## Jonathan20022

Avedas said:


> They will openly acknowledge and display flaws, but you won't get any sort of discount, especially from the big stores, unless the guitar is seriously damaged. I was looking at a 178k used Strandberg last year from Ishibashi and they wouldn't budge on the price at all. They maybe considered throwing in a few picks or a strap had I bought it on the spot.
> 
> All that said, they will definitely sell out. There are so many stupidly high prices guitars here and they all eventually get cycled through, even if it takes a few years.
> 
> @frank falbo thanks for the insight. Big fan of the guitar.



That definitely falls more in line with a cultural set of standards in Japan. I know plenty of people who have lived there and when I tell them that I can contact Guitar Center and just have 20 - 30% knocked off of a guitar due to my purchase history they're astounded. Granted in the states 10 - 15% isn't unheard of if it means making a sale almost anywhere. But it's a foreign concept overseas, apparently it's even rude to ask.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

frank falbo said:


> Yes. The first few guitars that went to Japan were the initial batch, and toward the end when it came to paint it was a little rushed, but the guitars themselves (wood, glue, basically the entire build prior to paint) are full quality instruments. Nothing about that was rushed.
> 
> There’s no “excuse” here but I will say the Japan market was first to jump in and buy a lot of guitars, and they were also very interested in getting the guitars as quickly as possible. So for a guitar with finish damage like that photo, the decision was made to sell it, because apparently for the Japan market there will be someone who would rather have THAT instrument right now, instead of another one in 2 months.
> 
> So I need everyone in this thread to please filter this through this lens: Let the Japan market decide if these are worth the Yen, and if so, then that guitar, as-is, will make someone happy because they have one of the first samples, even if with finish damage. It’s “new” as far as warranty is concerned.
> 
> The Japan market is being run by a distributor there, so these decisions are strictly for the Japan market and being made by them, for what they think is best for their market.
> 
> We have already told them that we’ll happily take these few back for total repaints. It’s just finish related. So that may still happen. Until then, I’m sure these photos will haunt me for the rest of my life.
> 
> As for the guitars themselves, I’ll try to break it down to the key points:
> 
> *Neck pocket area:* This is a transition from painted guitar to unfinished (oil). Any time you do that, it’s a long, labor intensive process to shape and razor cut the transition. What you see there is a split line between paint and no paint. What it is not: glue. Everyone speculating about the glue situation, no it has nothing to do with glue. It’s not glue you’re seeing.
> 
> The white powder is the combination of wetsanding dust and buffing compound. It does clean off. We clean it here and oil the fingerboard edge and it disappears. I think eventually the oil dries and you can see white again. But please understand this: It can be cleaned away, and in the future I will be personally cleaning it away to the point where it is gone and doesn’t reappear. However, it’s a transition from paint to unpainted. So dust can collect in there and would have to be cleaned in the future. We think that to have the neck unfinished is important. We also think the end of the fingerboard should be unfinished too. Other manufacturers will roll the paint up and over the fingerboard edge on the body. I’m not doing that. If I did do that, then there wouldn’t be that hard line that needs to be taped and then cleaned. You can second guess me on that I suppose. But I think it’s the right way to handle that transition.
> 
> *Finish damage: From today forward, for worldwide distribution AND all future orders for Japan, there will be absolutely ZERO finish issues allowed/accepted. *They simply will not ever occur from here forward. With Burl Maple we will be adding one more coat of pore filler, and an additional coat of topcoat. Thin finishes are great and resonant, but I won’t be shipping any Burl tops out without a slightly thicker coat of paint. Unless someone chooses a satin finish that purposely has the feel of all the nooks and crannies of the Burl (like they want it to feel raw)
> 
> *tl:dr *Yes we know about this stuff; first batch expedited for very enthusiastic Japan market; it will never come up again, neither in Japan nor worldwide, and we are gladly accepting returns if they prefer.
> 
> Heck even if someone buys it so they have the earliest serial number and they want to send it back to me for a refinish in a YEAR from now, I’ll do that too!



It speaks volumes that you knew you shipped a flawed product. Especially after the NAMM guitar debacle.

If it wasn't a big deal, why not just fix it? Two months to clean up some clear?

Who is working on these? Are you not doing it yourself?


----------



## cwhitey2

@frank falbo thanks for addressing the finish flaws. I do not doubt that the instruments themselves are of fantastic quality. I also completely understand what you are saying about the Japanese market, it just blows my mind though...I would totally wait another month or 15 for flawless one. Also, it's great to know that no more will leave the shop with those 'flaws'!


----------



## frank falbo

@MaxOfMetal Honestly I don’t follow you. Agree to disagree maybe? “Debacle” isn’t the word I would use to describe the white residue between the body paint and neck/fingerboard. Perhaps the outrage on SS.o over it could be considered a debacle, maybe that’s what you mean.

“Two months to clean up some clear” also represents a misunderstanding. Painting happens at the end of the process. Assembly immediately followed, while someone from Japan was here at my shop, overseeing and communicating with Japan and their decision, for their market, was to get them shipped and for sale. If that’s what they want for Japan, then I am allowing them to dictate what they want for the first batch. From here forward, nothing will ship (or be asked to ship) that way again.

I mean, the way I see it is if they want to buy these guitars in Japan, then let them. Let them have their fun. Honestly it only affects the small handful of (single-digit) people in Japan who had an insatiable lust for the first guitars.


----------



## narad

Avedas said:


> They will openly acknowledge and display flaws, but you won't get any sort of discount, especially from the big stores, unless the guitar is seriously damaged. I was looking at a 178k used Strandberg last year from Ishibashi and they wouldn't budge on the price at all. They maybe considered throwing in a few picks or a strap had I bought it on the spot.
> 
> All that said, they will definitely sell out. There are so many stupidly high prices guitars here and they all eventually get cycled through, even if it takes a few years.
> .



Well you were negotiating on a used guitar...

This and @Jonathan20022 comments:
Most instances I've seen of high price guitars arriving at ikebe with light damage, there's discount up front, no haggling for it. Also discounts if you know the store and staff. It's a different country, not a different planet, stores are stores. Broaching the topic is trickier and a culturally appropriate level of politeness required, but the store dynamics are not so different. On most high price new stuff in Japan I almost always get 10-15% off, with staff I don't know.

Similarly, there high price stuff will get solid discounts after sitting a bit. Pretty sure it's going to happen to the Leda Sig's, so waiting for that one..


----------



## Lorcan Ward

As someone who's ended up getting a rushed build several times I have to speak up about sending 4-6k guitars like this out with flaws. Like I said before in this thread we are just looking out for one another and many here know I've been on the worst end for things like this. 

Those flaws are not acceptable on an instrument in those price ranges. Rushing out builds is the last thing you want to do when starting off and trying to get your brand name up. In some of the IG pics there are tool marks on the fretboards which show a need to adapt a much stricter quality control during every stage of the build. Looking at the finished pictures the finishing edges and fret/tang ends needs to be addressed. There are much cleaner ways of doing them.


----------



## I play music

frank falbo said:


> *Neck pocket area:* This is a transition from painted guitar to unfinished (oil).


So the necks have no finish on them, only oil? Does this mean one has to reapply oil every once in a while to the neck?


----------



## frank falbo

No it does not. Wenge is one of those woods that we don’t feel requires repeated oiling. It is totally up to the guitar owner whether or not they’d like to occasionally enrich the immediate surface with a thin coat of oil.


----------



## cardinal

We could go pages on the issues shown in those photos. End of the day, Im not sure any more is constructive. 

We just need to see better, and hopefully we will.


----------



## JSanta

frank falbo said:


> @MaxOfMetal Honestly I don’t follow you. Agree to disagree maybe? “Debacle” isn’t the word I would use to describe the white residue between the body paint and neck/fingerboard. Perhaps the outrage on SS.o over it could be considered a debacle, maybe that’s what you mean.
> 
> “Two months to clean up some clear” also represents a misunderstanding. Painting happens at the end of the process. Assembly immediately followed, while someone from Japan was here at my shop, overseeing and communicating with Japan and their decision, for their market, was to get them shipped and for sale. If that’s what they want for Japan, then I am allowing them to dictate what they want for the first batch. From here forward, nothing will ship (or be asked to ship) that way again.
> 
> I mean, the way I see it is if they want to buy these guitars in Japan, then let them. Let them have their fun. Honestly it only affects the small handful of (single-digit) people in Japan who had an insatiable lust for the first guitars.



I think perhaps the point is that you agreed to send out something you knew wasn't right. Customer dictated or otherwise. I know of your other work and I don't think this speaks to that level of care .


----------



## Avedas

narad said:


> Well you were negotiating on a used guitar...
> 
> This and @Jonathan20022 comments:
> Most instances I've seen of high price guitars arriving at ikebe with light damage, there's discount up front, no haggling for it. Also discounts if you know the store and staff. It's a different country, not a different planet, stores are stores. Broaching the topic is trickier and a culturally appropriate level of politeness required, but the store dynamics are not so different. On most high price new stuff in Japan I almost always get 10-15% off, with staff I don't know.
> 
> Similarly, there high price stuff will get solid discounts after sitting a bit. Pretty sure it's going to happen to the Leda Sig's, so waiting for that one..


lol only because the import markup is the easiest thing to take a small chunk out of. I've honestly never seen this discount up front thing. I've not dealt with Ikebe much but places like Ishibashi and Musicland Key will happily throw everything on the floor at the same price regardless of condition. Especially in the case of used (or used + damaged) guitars they will determine how much money to knock off before listing, even if it's not nearly enough of a discount. They largely don't care about what the customer wants to pay in this regard because as I mentioned earlier, someone with a big wallet will eventually come along, even if it takes months or years. If you think this is not the case, watch the property or housing markets for a few months and see some of the same listings always available. Some people would rather throw away months of payments without a tenant rather than adjust their prices down a bit. It's a lot easier to get a small discount out of stores like Bic Camera or Nitori as they're much larger operations than an instrument store and their goods are more generic. Services are especially easy to haggle.

Also the best way to get an actual "discount" is to buy through a store like Rakuten with point multipliers. I got around 15% off my Strandberg and Helix brand new doing that. No shopkeeper shenanigans involved.


----------



## narad

Avedas said:


> lol only because the import markup is the easiest thing to take a small chunk out of. I've honestly never seen this discount up front thing. I've not dealt with Ikebe much but places like Ishibashi and Musicland Key will happily throw everything on the floor at the same price regardless of condition. Especially in the case of used (or used + damaged) guitars they will determine how much money to knock off before listing, even if it's not nearly enough of a discount. They largely don't care about what the customer wants to pay in this regard because as I mentioned earlier, someone with a big wallet will eventually come along, even if it takes months or years. If you think this is not the case, watch the property or housing markets for a few months and see some of the same listings always available. Some people would rather throw away months of payments without a tenant rather than adjust their prices down a bit. It's a lot easier to get a small discount out of stores like Bic Camera or Nitori as they're much larger operations than an instrument store and their goods are more generic. Services are especially easy to haggle.



Well, I don't want to compare housing to guitars. But I've basically watched the prices of j-customs, sugis, crews, and j-bodens for the past 8 years. They will be marked down. I can attest that just some months ago a huge batch of j-bodens was put on like 25-30% off after like 8 months up at 400-450k JPY, for instance -- @StevenC knows as we were trying to figure out which ones would be worth buying.



Avedas said:


> Also the best way to get an actual "discount" is to buy through a store like Rakuten with point multipliers. I got around 15% off my Strandberg and Helix brand new doing that. No shopkeeper shenanigans involved.



Yea, that's a good point.


----------



## Soya

Very unfortunate. I would think the best way to build a fledgling brand is to demonstrate commitment to unequaled quality, not to rush low serial number models out to the highest bidders. But then again, I am not a business owner like Frank.


----------



## ramses

:-( Neck pocket picture:

https://twitter.com/NoRi60794734/status/1003147824517615617

I'll have to wait for the second batch before I make a decision.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ramses said:


> :-( Neck pocket picture:
> 
> https://twitter.com/NoRi60794734/status/1003147824517615617
> 
> I'll have to wait for the second batch before I make a decision.



Ouch, look at the nut. 







It's like solid millimeter or two small on each side.


----------



## cardinal

As someone who likes Floyds and hates when strings slip off the end of the fret, that one I get. 

The Kahler 8 nut is super wide, so if you want the Floyd spacing, you’re stuck with that nut. If you want more space on either side, you kinda have to do that. 

I suppose if you went all out, you would have the nut in a little cubby at the end of the board, but the walls would be super thin and fragile.


----------



## Vyn

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ouch, look at the nut.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's like solid millimeter or two small on each side.



That actually looks intentional to be honest.


----------



## frank falbo

It is intentional. On Tosin's hardtail guitars, it's a narrow string spacing, but also narrower on the neck, meaning there is more fretboard wood on either side of the strings. This Floyd nut (the only 8 string locking nut choice) has a decent string spacing, but it doesn't go all the way out to the neck dimension that we have targeted. Bottom line, it's just the way those two things come together. That is our neck dimension, with the string spacing we wanted, with the Floyd nut on it.


----------



## Albake21

Vyn said:


> That actually looks intentional to be honest.


Yeah looks perfectly fine to me.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Not much more you could do short of resizing the neck to match the floyd's preset nut spacing. But you'd have essentially two different neck widths based on the hardtail and traditional tremolo options/floyd rose options. Would break consistency between the feel of the 8 string necks and what they're going for. To be fair too, my Suhr Modern Pro Gotoh Floyd featured a similar "short nut" visually where you saw the nut end before the neck. 

Easiest fix there is having Floyd Rose allow some flexibility in manufacturing for the individual needs of specific guitars. But either fix puts the ball and all the responsibility in either party's court.


----------



## Randy

Jonathan20022 said:


> To be fair too, my Suhr Modern Pro Gotoh Floyd featured a similar "short nut" visually where you saw the nut end before the neck.



Pics?


----------



## Jonathan20022

I just let that one go, but I do have this shot of the headstock. It falls short on the bass side, you can feel it when you swipe down from the lock nut down to the neck wood.







Actually just made me realize another thing seeing this shot, it has another issue.






The Locking nut is sitting flush for about 3/4 of the nut's width before hovering over the dip where the flame headstock veneer starts. Suhr's answer to this is that it's designed like this and functionally poses no problem. But it's not very attractive in the first place.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I don't think it's beyond reality to have better transition on a $5500 "90% handmade" guitar. I've just never seen it that bad on something like this. 

That Suhr is far from as severe, but I'd even say that's not ideal. 

I mean, Rondo Music sources thier own custom locking nuts. 

If you guys are 100% cool with it, then I guess I'm just crazy. It was just pretty jarring when I first saw it.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Yeah definitely not preferred. I actually inquired about a Floyd model earlier in the year. Ended up not ordering it due to finances at the time, but hopefully they'll have it sorted by the time I do. 

I'm definitely not 100% cool with it, but I also see both sides of the coin. It was definitely not a good idea having that go out as is.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

I'm not seeing the issue with the nut, and I assume whatever nut's Rondo gets made aren't the same quality spec as OFR.


----------



## frank falbo

Yeah, I’m not using a Rondo locking nut... but guys realize what I’m saying. The string spacing is okay, and the neck width is right, and the feel is how it’s supposed to be. So at that point, what can you do? I rolled the edges so that it’s not sharp to the touch, but I’m not going to make a neck that feels different than the hardtail as Johnathan has pointed out, just because Floyd makes a “one size fits all” 8 string lock nut.

And it would be different if we didn’t like their string spacing. Then I would have tried to come up with a different solution, or refused to offer the 8/Floyd.


----------



## cardinal

Kahler has a much wider 8-string locking nut, but the spacing is wider too. 

I’m pretty sure the Anderson Drop Top 7s I’ve had were built in a similar way. 

But, and not to beat a dead horse, the Andersons didn’t otherwise have any flaws in the fit and finish.


----------



## I play music

frank falbo said:


> No it does not. Wenge is one of those woods that we don’t feel requires repeated oiling. It is totally up to the guitar owner whether or not they’d like to occasionally enrich the immediate surface with a thin coat of oil.


The lesser maintenance a guitar requires, the better for me! 
For this exact reason I like stainless steel frets, materials not so affected by climate (Aristides) ... and guitars that don't require me oiling them ;-)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Dineley said:


> Rondo gets made aren't the same quality spec as OFR.





frank falbo said:


> Yeah, I’m not using a Rondo locking nut...



That's not at all the point I was making. 

I'm just saying that sourcing a custom nut isn't impossible, not on a nearly $6000 guitar. Kahler says they'll make one to spec, and I've gotten custom ABM pieces as well. Not to mention all the singles string options. It doesn’t necessarily have to be super fancy or expensive custom stuff. Just spit-balling.

But again, if everyone loves it, I can admit that I’m just crazy. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. 

Also, not to belabor past points, but no one here has the right to say anything about the quality of Rondo when guitars with the issues seen here are being let out the door. 

Oh well. I guess we'll just have to see how the next batch goes.


----------



## Seabeast2000

I play music said:


> The lesser maintenance a guitar requires, the better for me!
> For this exact reason I like stainless steel frets, materials not so affected by climate (Aristides) ... and guitars that don't require me oiling them ;-)


May I interest you in a Mk19 Grenade launcher? Can djent, no oil.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's not at all the point I was making.



Yeah sorry for taking it there, only meant the OFR piece is a known quantity, was a silly avenue to go down.


----------



## Jonathan20022

@Randy 






I went through google to see if I could find pictures showcasing the bass side of the locking nut. This is what my Modern Floyd looked like distance wise from the edge of the neck. The treble side is flush, but there's a .4 - .5mm of length missing from the nut to make both sides flush.


----------



## GunpointMetal

MaxOfMetal said:


> Also, not to belabor past points, but no one here has the right to say anything about the quality of Rondo when guitars with the issues seen here are being let out the door.


Having owned four Rondo guitars including one Douglas model, I've never seen any of the finish issues I've seen here. If I even paid $800 for a guitar and it had gaps in the finish, excess material around the neck joint, etc. that thing is going back and fast.


----------



## frank falbo

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's not at all the point I was making.
> 
> I'm just saying that sourcing a custom nut isn't impossible, not on a nearly $6000 guitar.



Nor was I. Don’t take it that way. Asian factory guitars often come out beautiful, with great finishes, and are worth every penny and provide a lot of happiness for a lot of people. 

Sidebar: I am extremely familiar with all the various Asian factory type lock nuts out there, and for this guitar it is best that I use the Floyd Rose branded nut. 

As for tooling up for a custom nut, it involves money and high volume to justify. We made exactly two of these guitars. 

Lastly, these guitars are not $6000USD. If bought here in the United States they are generally between $3000-$4000. That said, I already had tremolo blocks custom tooled for these. 28mm TiSonix titanium. I think that’s more valuable to the overall instrument. The stock block is very heavy and largely oversized compared to the 6 & 7 string.


----------



## Soya

Maybe I'm just biased from having a machining background, but to make a custom locking nut like the Floyd style but with slightly altered dimensions seems almost trivially easy. It's not too complicated a part and could likely be near fully machined on a simple Bridgeport.


----------



## cardinal

Not to be super snippy, but getting the finish/sanding/glue joints right should be pretty basic also. I would rather the focus be on that; the nut is something that seems like it should be lower on the priority list.

In case Frank isn’t familiar with it, SSO in particular maybe gets out the pitchforks over stuff like this because of past experiences. The one the comes to my mind is Darren, who made spectacular guitar designs but could never actually get them built (and the few that did get out weren’t exactly flawless), but was pretty good at taking deposits. He may have returned them?

So there’s sort of collective trauma around here.


----------



## Vyn

Soya said:


> Maybe I'm just biased from having a machining background, but to make a custom locking nut like the Floyd style but with slightly altered dimensions seems almost trivially easy. It's not too complicated a part and could likely be near fully machined on a simple Bridgeport.



It's a very easy job, however if you don't have the gear to do it then you have to pay a machine shop to do it which isn't cheap. I'm not sure what prices are like in the states but it's cheaper to buy a floyd nut of any description off the shelf than to get one made by a shop.


----------



## Soya

Of course it would be cheaper. I just feel that on a custom built-to-order guitar of this caliber, settling on an off the shelf part that is less than ideal is, well, less than ideal.

Hell, could even get it 3d printed in stainless. And redesign it a bit to make it a little more aesthetically pleasing.


----------



## frank falbo

They’re usually molded, not machined, or a combination thereof.

So let’s try a fun exercise. (And maybe I’ll buy lock nuts from you someday) Please think about how much you’d charge, or what you think it should cost to draw, then mill out a lock nut. at whatever hourly rate you charge your employer. Now, add the cost of sending 2-4 milled parts to plating for black plating.

If not purchased, then include the price of machining out the 4 locking pads. They aren’t flat on the bottom. They have a contoured surface to force the locking pressure toward the front of the nut fulcrum so that whatever position they’re rotated they lock toward the front.

Now balance that with the fact that the 8 string lock nut is included in the price of the 8 string Floyd, so there is no savings to the business. Every dollar is an increase in cost.

Next, weigh the benefit. The string spacing would still be the same. Meaning the performance would be the same to the end user. The only benefit added would be about .045” of extra metal on either side of the nut, to fill superfluous space.

Again I’m not being sarcastic. I’d like to see what you come up with.


----------



## StevenC

This is a weird problem. While locking nuts not matching the neck width at the nut is now my biggest guitar pet peeve, I don't see an actual solution to this beyond 8 individual nuts. Aesthetically speaking, I have a much bigger problem with the piece of superfluous metal on the bass side already, so even machining a wider locking nut base wouldn't be an acceptable solution for me.

Also, all my locking nut guitars have now been ruined because they all have a tiny but noticeable step between the edge of the neck and the end of the nut. Thanks guys!


----------



## spudmunkey

StevenC said:


> Also, all my locking nut guitars have now been ruined because they all have a tiny but noticeable step between the edge of the neck and the end of the nut. Thanks guys!



_SevenString.org...helping you hate your guitars since 2004_


----------



## Knarbens

@frank falbo Have you thought about a "simplier" way of doing the neck/body oil/lacquer transition? 

I see how difficult it is to follow the lines of the gluejoint and I get your point why you want to do it like this.
Anyway, have you thought of something like this?


----------



## SubzeroJake

Spotted this on FB a few weeks ago. Deep cross grain scratches under the finish on a $5,500 guitar. Not sure if this helps, but my father taught me to always sand with the grain.


----------



## Randy

@SubzeroJake Pic link isn't working.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the aforementioned scratches


----------



## SubzeroJake

KnightBrolaire said:


> the aforementioned scratches


Yeah there it is. I'm guessing whoever posted this picture was unaware of the flaw.


----------



## frank falbo

Those are not “deep cross grain scratches under the finish”.

We’d just put the tuners on that headstock to drill the screw holes in the back, prior to the last TWO coats of a wipe-on satin poly on the headstock, and the final coats of oil on the neck and back of headstock. It looked very cool so we took the photo op at that moment.

Following this photo, the headstock was sanded, re-coated, and then again. The lines you see are in the previous coat of wipe-on, which hadn’t even been scuff sanded to accept the next coat.

If you look on Instagram, you’ll see a video of Tosin playing the completed guitar, and it even pans up to show the headstock.


----------



## frank falbo

SubzeroJake said:


> Yeah there it is. I'm guessing whoever posted this picture was unaware of the flaw.


It was US who posted the picture on OUR Instagram as a mock up/preview of how great that guitar was going to look, once it was done. 

It’s an open pore finish on the rest of the guitar, so to bury the logo under finish we built up an open pore coating consisting of several coats, but applied selectively to get up over the logo but still sink into the surrounding pores. It came out really beautiful. I also oriented the Wenge headstock veneer so that the logo would rest on a flat ring of the wood grain. That way the logo wouldn’t have pores underneath.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

frank falbo said:


> Jeez you guys.



It's almost as if sending out an imperfect product makes folks unsure of your quality and more willing to assume something is a problem. Weird.

We've had this conversation before. Why not take some high quality pictures of 100% complete and 100% flawless guitars? Not another noodling video or artsy shots. The actual product you're trying to sell.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's almost as if sending out an imperfect product makes folks unsure of your quality and more willing to assume something is a problem. Weird.
> 
> We've had this conversation before. Why not take some high quality pictures of 100% complete and 100% flawless guitars? Not another noodling video or artsy shots. The actual product you're trying to sell.


There's a difference between being unsure and actively seeking out flaws that aren't actually flaws. Creating issues that don't exist is pretty low.

Frank is here answering questions and being beyond transparent about the process, and what he's getting back is undue open hostility.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> There's a difference between being unsure and actively seeking out flaws that aren't actually flaws. Creating issues that don't exist is pretty low.



Frank has admitted to shipping flawed guitars. That is the reality and there are consequences for that, whether anyone likes it or not. 

Not all of us are privy to his work like yourself, which is why I've been interested in seeing real pictures of these things for several months now. 



ElysianGuitars said:


> Frank is here answering questions and being beyond transparent about the process, and what he's getting back is undue open hostility.



He's trying to sell a product, and unfortunately the quality of said product is making him do some damage control. 

He's not here solely for our benefit. 

Any "hostility" is blunt discussion. I'm not going to beat around the bush or blow smoke. I can't speak for anyone else though.


----------



## Randy

ElysianGuitars said:


> There's a difference between being unsure and actively seeking out flaws that aren't actually flaws. Creating issues that don't exist is pretty low.



It's honestly a little bit of column 'A' and column 'B'.

I've given this brand and definitely Frank the benefit of the doubt several times over again, and I personally believe the brand will do well (in both sales and in customer satisfaction). 

That said, the analysis and overanalysis of the builds are totally on par with how everything's done on this site, for better or worse. They're fanned fret, exotic wood, (sometimes) headless, extended range guitars bearing the name of big name artist from a genre basically born on this site. The people on this forum are the target audience and the idiosyncrasies of that group is baked right into the cake, I've said that from the beginning. If these were blues machines or Frank's acoustic builds, there probably wouldn't be a thread here at all... again, for better or worse. Live by the SSO dynamic, die by the SSO dynamic.

I can't speak for anyone else, and I'll try to caution repeating myself but there are ways to handle this group (whether the flaws are true or perceived) and telling everyone they don't know what they're looking at, every small mistake is a 'one off' with nothing that needs to be learned/changed and 'the fact they're eyebrow deep in pre-orders means nothing needs to change' is NOT the way to do it. Full stop. 

I had this conversation with someone offline, if Frank said "look, I've been in the guitar business forever and I've been very successful making other products (including high end guitars), so know we're going to do this right but to get the product out there we're 'live prototyping' and just bear with us while we workout the kinks", this thread is either half as long for lack of scrutiny or just as long with people singing their praises. Blaming the members here for their lying eyes and the Japanese vendors for rushing them, and so-on and so-on will continue to stoke the fires.


----------



## JSanta

MaxOfMetal said:


> Frank has admitted to shipping flawed guitars. That is the reality and there are consequences for that, whether anyone likes it or not.
> 
> Not all of us are privy to his work like yourself, which is why I've been interested in seeing real pictures of these things for several months now.
> 
> He's trying to sell a product, and unfortunately the quality of said product is making him do some damage control.
> 
> He's not here solely for our benefit.
> 
> Any "hostility" is blunt discussion. I'm not going to beat around the bush or blow smoke. I can't speak for anyone else though.



I would also tack onto this that the guitars are incredibly expensive, and the flaws (or whatever they are called) are really not acceptable at this price point. My $1000 Fenders were completely flawless from the factory, as were any PRS I've had. These guitars are in some cases several thousands of dollars more than the PRS Core line - and those guitars are as close to perfectly made as someone can expect, and have fantastic woods.


----------



## Randy

Worth noting, if this were a 'vendor' account generated thread in the dealer section, the content would be confined to product updates and legitimate 'Q&A' between customer and vendor. This is thread made by a regular ol' member on the open forum, and the only rules that apply are the basics (no NSFW, no name calling, etc).


----------



## bostjan

I think that maybe some of us have just been around here too long, and we simply recall seeing this call-and-answer (or photo-of-what-really-seems-to-be-a-glaring-flaw and "reasons" from the builder) routine so many times before. Maybe we only recall the ones that ended terribly for the buyers because those were the most dramatic. Maybe somewhere in the forum, there is a thread about a really great build that had people pointing out problems in photos and the builder responded with a "reason" (lens distortion, buffing compound, etc.) and everything worked out perfectly fine, and we just don't remember it because there wasn't any drama after that...


----------



## frank falbo

Randy said:


> ...Blaming the members here for their lying eyes and the Japanese vendors for rushing them, and so-on and so-on will continue to stoke the fires.



Ah man that’s genuinely not what I mean to do. There are extremely real falsehoods that need to be addressed: There is gloss paint that rises up onto the neck/fingerboard in one photo. I can gladly take responsibility for not scraping that as close to the top as I did on others.

This gloss makes the wood darker. People have mistakenly viewed this as a gaping hole, as if they’re looking “into” a gap. That is responsible for incorrect responses and false accusations of necks “coming out” or whatever.

There are accusations of “glue coming out” which again are false. I can accept that on the one guitar, there are two splotches of paint that slipped under the masking tape and were not fully picked off. When the neck is first oiled they blend in. When it’s dry they stick out more (not an excuse, just saying the photo is unflattering)

Next we’ve been accused of “cracks” under the frets because we used the method that both Ibanez and ESP use, of filling the fret slots underneath. Nothing is cracked.

This is all important because the actual neck joint; the part that really counts, is impeccable. Attached is the one I’m currently doing, Maple into Sugar Pine.

Also worth noting is that the amount of $5000 or nearly $6000 is being used very often here. These guitars average around $3600USD here in the US. The higher price is the cost in Japan after being imported. We are not setting that price, Japan is, and the guitars are selling. 

So let me be clear: I take all the bullets and all the responsibility for the things that are within my control. Japan was very eager to get these first guitars, to the point of sending someone over to approve and hand carry them back. It’s true the guitar in question has already sold. So in person, obviously these things that you’re seeing in close-up photos were not a deterrent.

What’s important to me is accuracy. There is no reason for a new company such as this to be falsely accused of neck joint issues or cracks in a fingerboard. I’m not blaming anyone for doing this, I am just asking for accuracy when there is a misunderstanding.


----------



## jwade

The whole SS.org hypercritical analysis thing has definitely intensified over the last couple years (for good reason), so it kind of surprises me that anyone trying to launch a new product clearly aimed heavily towards this very specific niche buyer would allow anything with any sort of flaws out into the market. 

Even if every single guitar after those initial Japanese market builds is perfect, you had to know that pictures of any tiny imperfection would show up online, and invariably will be constantly brought back up in conversation about the brand. 

I’m not trying to be on one side or another here, but it really does seem like a big mistake to rush to get the initial few builds out to desperately elitist buyers.


----------



## Randy

frank falbo said:


> Ah man that’s genuinely not what I mean to do. There are extremely real falsehoods that need to be addressed: There is gloss paint that rises up onto the neck/fingerboard in one photo. I can gladly take responsibility for not scraping that as close to the top as I did on others.
> 
> This gloss makes the wood darker. People have mistakenly viewed this as a gaping hole, as if they’re looking “into” a gap. That is responsible for incorrect responses and false accusations of necks “coming out” or whatever.
> 
> There are accusations of “glue coming out” which again are false. I can accept that on the one guitar, there are two splotches of paint that slipped under the masking tape and were not fully picked off. When the neck is first oiled they blend in. When it’s dry they stick out more (not an excuse, just saying the photo is unflattering)
> 
> Next we’ve been accused of “cracks” under the frets because we used the method that both Ibanez and ESP use, of filling the fret slots underneath. Nothing is cracked.
> 
> This is all important because the actual neck joint; the part that really counts, is impeccable. Attached is the one I’m currently doing, Maple into Sugar Pine.
> 
> Also worth noting is that the amount of $5000 or nearly $6000 is being used very often here. These guitars average around $3600USD here in the US. The higher price is the cost in Japan after being imported. We are not setting that price, Japan is, and the guitars are selling.
> 
> So let me be clear: I take all the bullets and all the responsibility for the things that are within my control. Japan was very eager to get these first guitars, to the point of sending someone over to approve and hand carry them back. It’s true the guitar in question has already sold. So in person, obviously these things that you’re seeing in close-up photos were not a deterrent.
> 
> What’s important to me is accuracy. There is no reason for a new company such as this to be falsely accused of neck joint issues or cracks in a fingerboard. I’m not blaming anyone for doing this, I am just asking for accuracy when there is a misunderstanding.



I didn't PERSONALLY think the dark line looked like a gap (I somewhat stated that when I said '_It'd be foolish to try to make a structural claim about what's going on there_'), I was referring to whatever is going on to the left and bottom of the joint, right near the corner on the neck itself; not sure if that's filler or what.

I was just stating that it wasn't an especially attractive joint and if it's a ton of labor having to tape, spray, polish and reclean the spot to where it becomes an issue on a short deadline, that might be something to take into account in the workflow, rather than spending an outsized amount of time cleaning it up every time. And you've been doing this longer than me and you've placed hands on all these, so you'd know better than I what's possible but that's what feedback and constructive criticism is about. I'd hate for legitimate conversation about this to get lost under a pile-on.

Maybe a dumb question, but is it possible to glue in the neck AFTER finishing? Would it be completely non negotiable to make it bolt-on instead, if it saves a few extra hours work per guitar and sounds just as good?


----------



## jephjacques

Having handled one I can't imagine how you'd do a bolt-on version that had the same kind of neck heel. Maybe if you used the Siggi Braun design or a really extreme version of Ran's AANJ.


----------



## Jonathan20022

jephjacques said:


> Having handled one I can't imagine how you'd do a bolt-on version that had the same kind of neck heel. Maybe if you used the Siggi Braun design or a really extreme version of Ran's AANJ.



I think it's possible to get very close, but you'll always end up having to strengthen the neck joint before it meets the neck so it doesn't end up being too frail. My Blackwater DII got pretty close to the flush style neck joint, but it didn't need anything further, the horns on Blackwaters are so carved that they end up never being in your way in the first place. But then you have neck through/set neck guitars or 1pc guitars like the Aristides






Then the set neck style build is perfectly smooth and seamless, but it also reaches further into the body.






As long as the rest of the guitar's design has thought put into it to make it playable and out of your way, then the bolt on compromise shouldn't affect the difficulty of playing the upper frets too badly.


----------



## StevenC

Surely you just look at Claas, Toone, Padalka and Fodera, then decided where to compromise.


----------



## GXPO

We're a sensitive bunch for sure but with good reason. For the market these are being presented to there is an expectation of finesse, not necessarily perfection but a level of detail or scrutiny which might be a little bit higher than some would expect elsewhere. If you hop over to the Padalka thread as stated above the guy is making guitars of a similar breed to a standard which no one has been able to find fault with yet (of which I'm aware).

It's great that Frank is in here doing his best to address the issues but so far, every stage of a completed guitar which pictures have been available for has raised questions. It turns me off as a potential buyer. I look forward to seeing the second batch with the kinks ironed out and/or the NGDs with (near)perfect guitars.

EDIT: I should mention that none of the pictures turns me off as much as my inability to buy one due to lack of actual money.


----------



## narad

GXPO said:


> We're a sensitive bunch for sure but with good reason.



Somehow lately I've noticed more and more posts trying to phrase the forum as super sensitive to build imperfections and the like, almost as if the guitars being scrutinized weren't being sold for 400-500% the price of a totally playable, great-sounding instrument. 

You know, like don't fuss about that door on your Ferrari isn't 100% perfect and it doesn't close shut firmly -- it's just the door -- doesn't effect how it drives. Don't be so sensitive. I thought you were _drivers_, not door fanatics.


----------



## Albake21

narad said:


> Somehow lately I've noticed more and more posts trying to phrase the forum as super sensitive to build imperfections and the like, almost as if the guitars being scrutinized weren't being sold for 400-500% the price of a totally playable, great-sounding instrument.
> 
> You know, like don't fuss about that door on your Ferrari isn't 100% perfect and it doesn't close shut firmly -- it's just the door -- doesn't effect how it drives. Don't be so sensitive. I thought you were _drivers_, not door fanatics.


I guess the problem is, when you are paying for the super expensive Ferari, you would expect to not find any problems regardless of what they may be. Just like guitars, you are paying the premium for a reason. If the premium/Ferrari has problems, then what's the difference between buying the Ferrari or just buying the cheaper Corvette. Both are super cars and both get the job very well done. Same thing applies with guitars.


----------



## narad

Albake21 said:


> I guess the problem is, when you are paying for the super expensive Ferari, you would expect to not find any problems regardless of what they may be. Just like guitars, you are paying the premium for a reason. If the premium/Ferrari has problems, then what's the difference between buying the Ferrari or just buying the cheaper Corvette. Both are super cars and both get the job very well done. Same thing applies with guitars.



Exactly. And Ferrari doesn't ship a bunch of dodgy guitars to Japan because some people really want them and don't care about the doors closely properly. You do something like that, you know, guitars aren't bonded to a person for forever. They get sold, they move around. People look them over and form opinions of them, tell their friends, etc. If you don't want a so-so rep, you need to bring A-game on day 1, and not just be offering to retroactively repair the things you put out in the world, that were admittedly below the quality level you're aiming for.

When Doug @ blackmachine builds a guitar he's not happy with, he burns it. PRS saws it in half. Taku Sakashta let a customer play his guitar but wouldn't let him take delivery of it without doing a complete refin on it, on like a super fancy archtop, because there was a blemish that bothered Taku, that the customer couldn't even really see it. 

Kiesel ships guitars that used obviously the wrong version hipshot for that neck angle and with the saddles cranked all the way up, denies it, and gives some excuse about how it doesn't matter.

You know, choose your heroes.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Albake21 said:


> I guess the problem is, when you are paying for the super expensive Ferari, you would expect to not find any problems regardless of what they may be. Just like guitars, you are paying the premium for a reason. If the premium/Ferrari has problems, then what's the difference between buying the Ferrari or just buying the cheaper Corvette. Both are super cars and both get the job very well done. Same thing applies with guitars.



tbh Ferrari's are kinda of shit shows



narad said:


> Exactly. And Ferrari doesn't ship a bunch of dodgy guitars to Japan because some people really want them and don't care about the doors closely properly. You do something like that, you know, guitars aren't bonded to a person for forever. They get sold, they move around. People look them over and form opinions of them, tell their friends, etc. If you don't want a so-so rep, you need to bring A-game on day 1, and not just be offering to retroactively repair the things you put out in the world, that were admittedly below the quality level you're aiming for.
> 
> When Doug @ blackmachine builds a guitar he's not happy with, he burns it. PRS saws it in half. Taku Sakashta let a customer play his guitar but wouldn't let him take delivery of it without doing a complete refin on it, on like a super fancy archtop, because there was a blemish that bothered Taku, that the customer couldn't even really see it.
> 
> Kiesel ships guitars that used obviously the wrong version hipshot for that neck angle and with the saddles cranked all the way up, denies it, and gives some excuse about how it doesn't matter.
> 
> You know, choose your heroes.



also this. PRS destroys a lot of guitars.


----------



## Lemonbaby

Albake21 said:


> I guess the problem is, when you are paying for the super expensive Ferari, you would expect to not find any problems regardless of what they may be. Just like guitars, you are paying the premium for a reason.


You're paying the legend - tolerances e.g. the gaps between metal parts are smaller and more even on any Volkswagen.


----------



## frank falbo

Well, the only possible difference in the analogy is that with a hand made guitar, you’re paying for things like wood selection, the meticulous joining of the two pieces of the neck blank, the design elements, the hand carving of all of the transitions, etc. 

That’s not an excuse for cosmetic/paint incompletions, and I don’t submit it as such. But it’s where I seek accuracy in the representation, and am devastated if someone accuses us of “gaps and glue residue” when the only thing they are really seeing is clear paint running up onto a surface. (But the surface itself having been meticulously hand-fit and sculpted perfectly) 

As for the guitar that started this drama, it was already sold a few days ago. So someone looked at it, in person, played it, and decided it was worth what they paid in every area that was important to them.


----------



## Albake21

frank falbo said:


> Well, the only possible difference in the analogy is that with a hand made guitar, you’re paying for things like wood selection, the meticulous joining of the two pieces of the neck blank, the design elements, the hand carving of all of the transitions, etc.
> 
> That’s not an excuse for cosmetic/paint incompletions, and I don’t submit it as such. But it’s where I seek accuracy in the representation, and am devastated if someone accuses us of “gaps and glue residue” when the only thing they are really seeing is clear paint running up onto a surface. (But the surface itself having been meticulously hand-fit and sculpted perfectly)
> 
> As for the guitar that started this drama, it was already sold a few days ago. So someone looked at it, in person, played it, and decided it was worth what they paid in every area that was important to them.


At the end of the day, I still have a big interest in the guitars. I guess all you can do is learn from these mistakes and grow even bigger with the company in the next batches. It sucks a few guitars had these problems, but I know now these won't happen any future builds.

By the way, a bit off topic, but will you be at GearFest with Tosin and the rest of the Fishman guys?


----------



## frank falbo

Not sure. Sweetwater is a big Fishman dealer but we haven’t opened them as an Abasi dealer yet and won’t be doing so until we clear out about a hundred more of the guitars in queue. 

I guess what I was trying to say above is that with a guitar, more often it’s the way it sounds and plays that take precedence over a finish flaw or if a guitar got a dent in shipping or at the guitar store. Those things may affect the perceived value of course, but not the way the guitar plays or sounds, or feels to play, or the overall enjoyment of ownership.


----------



## StevenC

Albake21 said:


> I guess the problem is, when you are paying for the super expensive Ferari, you would expect to not find any problems regardless of what they may be. Just like guitars, you are paying the premium for a reason. If the premium/Ferrari has problems, then what's the difference between buying the Ferrari or just buying the cheaper Corvette. Both are super cars and both get the job very well done. Same thing applies with guitars.



A Corvette is a sports car.



frank falbo said:


> Not sure. Sweetwater is a big Fishman dealer but we haven’t opened them as an Abasi dealer yet and won’t be doing so until we clear out about a hundred more of the guitars in queue.
> 
> I guess what I was trying to say above is that with a guitar, more often it’s the way it sounds and plays that take precedence over a finish flaw or if a guitar got a dent in shipping or at the guitar store. Those things may affect the perceived value of course, but not the way the guitar plays or sounds, or feels to play, or the overall enjoyment of ownership.



Now, my current best sounding and playing guitar is a mongrel made of parts that failed QC at a very good Californian custom shop, so I'll admit that the best guitars aren't always the immaculate ones. But it goes both ways. I've played some amazing playing and sounding guitars from Indonesian and Korean factories. They also didn't have finish flaws, so when I spend 10 times the amount on a high end handmade guitar I expect it to have at least the finish quality of cheaper guitars, along with the wood selection and wood working etc.

I can spend $3000 to $4000 in a lot of places and get a perfect guitar. I don't see why I'd sacrifice a high level of finish just to have a particular offset single cut shape.


----------



## wannabguitarist

narad said:


> You know, like don't fuss about that door on your Ferrari isn't 100% perfect and it doesn't close shut firmly -- it's just the door -- doesn't effect how it drives. Don't be so sensitive. I thought you were _drivers_, not door fanatics.



Not really a great analogy given that up until fairly recently Ferrari's road cars were very poorly built. There was actual a full run of 456s in the 90's that _all _had poorly fitting doors. Ferrari didn't give a shit


----------



## StevenC

wannabguitarist said:


> Not really a great analogy given that up until fairly recently Ferrari's road cars were very poorly built. There was actual a full run of 456s in the 90's that _all _had poorly fitting doors. Ferrari didn't give a shit


But in the 90s Ferrari made crap cars and everyone knew it. Which is sort of the idea here.


----------



## narad

wannabguitarist said:


> Not really a great analogy given that up until fairly recently Ferrari's road cars were very poorly built. There was actual a full run of 456s in the 90's that _all _had poorly fitting doors. Ferrari didn't give a shit



This is always why I hesitate to do car analogies but conceptually just replace with whatever high end car that people appreciate for it's engineering and precision.


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> This is always why I hesitate to do car analogies but conceptually just replace with whatever high end car that people appreciate for it's engineering and precision.


McLaren. Always McLaren. Ron Dennis is a weird dude.


----------



## jephjacques

Wait can you get Fishmans installed in a McLaren now???


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> Wait can you get Fishmans installed in a McLaren now???


I wouldn't go active pickups in a McLaren. They've had serious problems with their battery systems lately.


----------



## Matt08642

MaxOfMetal said:


> We've had this conversation before. Why not take some high quality pictures of 100% complete and 100% flawless guitars? Not another noodling video or artsy shots. The actual product you're trying to sell.



Speak for yourself, I dig the "in progress" pics. Sounds like you're looking for a sears catalog


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Matt08642 said:


> Speak for yourself, I dig the "in progress" pics. Sounds like you're looking for a sears catalog



I don't remember saying that's all the pics that should be shown.


----------



## cardinal

frank falbo said:


> Not sure. Sweetwater is a big Fishman dealer but we haven’t opened them as an Abasi dealer yet and won’t be doing so *until we clear out about a hundred more of the guitars in queue*.



Wow. Curious: how long do you expect it to take to build 100 guitars?


----------



## Matt08642

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't remember saying that's all the pics that should be shown.



LOL whatever you say, my man.


----------



## bulb

StevenC said:


> I wouldn't go active pickups in a McLaren. They've had serious problems with their battery systems lately.


daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....

(wait for it)

...aaaaaaaaaaa....

(still waiting)

.........mmmmmmmn

(go nando!)


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.....
> 
> (wait for it)
> 
> ...aaaaaaaaaaa....
> 
> (still waiting)
> 
> .........mmmmmmmn
> 
> (go nando!)


And his car broke down today and everything.


----------



## bulb

StevenC said:


> And his car broke down today and everything.


i know, i saw, i sad


----------



## GXPO

Narad, next time someone puts up a 'hello darkness my old friend' thread due to their Schecter having slightly misaligned frets dots we can talk about whether or not people are a bit sensitive on this forum. 

I'm not saying the reaction to these pictures isn't justified, I'm saying that I've seen people get worked up about a lot less. Not quite apples to apples I know.


----------



## gienek

Generally agree but that fret markers ... I bet i get better results by nail laquer in home


----------



## Opion

I'm honestly laughing right now at all of this. I made a comment a few pages back in this thread pointing out the likelihood of the *exact* same scenario that is unfolding down here. While I really cannot fault the idea of people wanting their hard earned money to live up to their expectations...it's almost like you guys should start building your own guitars  (only kidding)

All that aside, I honestly think it's good that he's on here jumping in, providing context and real knowledge of his guitar building, because well, this is his true customer base. Maybe his idea of a custom guitar doesn't perfectly line-up (see what I did there) with everyone's expectations, but I'm waiting to see how the product really does and how people react to it. It probably plays impressively well and has a unique tone. I've never seen someone use Cedar for a body which I think is pretty cool. The body shape and opposing-grain construction are interesting. Every brand has growing pains, maybe it is our fault that we expected a 100% perfect product the first 100 pieces from a brand new company. 

I hope to see these issues resolved as much as the next person too, because I was expecting a lot better than this than the pictures I've seen. He is probably right that it does not really affect playability in the least, but I will likely not be able to touch my hands on one any time soon.


----------



## narad

You guys see this yet?


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

What’s the waiting list on Abasi headstocks to clip onto my Bodens and Salens?


----------



## Lemonbaby

Opion said:


> I've never seen someone use Cedar for a body which I think is pretty cool.


Cedar is not that uncommon, other luthiers use it since years. It's definitely one of the lightest woods available for bodies (besides Pine) which is reason enough to use it. I also built a Strat with a Spanish Cedar body - it's so soft that you can cause dents with your fingertips, but machining that stuff is super easy and the guitar is very light. Needs a thicker PU coat to protect the surface though...


----------



## I play music

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> What’s the waiting list on Abasi headstocks to clip onto my Bodens and Salens?


----------



## jephjacques

narad said:


> You guys see this yet?



Can't wait for Tosin's country album


----------



## Seabeast2000

jephjacques said:


> Can't wait for Tosin's country album


A thousand chickens in 8 modes at 228 bpm.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Ugh, look at the rough edges on that pickguard

Guys I'm kidding


----------



## Soya

It's OK, it's a low serial number model.


Not as kidding



OK I know it's the film


----------



## frank falbo

wannabguitarist said:


> Ugh, look at the rough edges on that pickguard
> 
> Guys I'm kidding


Hah thanks for that. And now to remain true-to-form, now I'm forced to respond that it's actually the clear protective film that you're seeing. The guard itself is cut cleanly on the CNC, I promise.


----------



## Avedas

frank falbo said:


> Hah thanks for that. And now to remain true-to-form, now I'm forced to respond that it's actually the clear protective film that you're seeing. The guard itself is cut cleanly on the CNC, I promise.


I thought that was really obvious lol


----------



## Matt08642

narad said:


> You guys see this yet?



Damn, this is SUPER cool. I really dig the mutated abasi/tele headstock design. Stuff like this makes me hopeful about the customization options they're offering.


----------



## jephjacques

As I understand it, they'll build just about whatever you want as long as it fits the guitar shape and you can pay for it.


----------



## goobaba

Maybe it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but did they ever discuss an entry level or import version of this same style?


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Paging AliExpress to thread.


----------



## oniduder

hehe yeah those on aliexpress have some cool simple headstocks too, looks similar to the ole slipner or however you spell it from nevborn,


----------



## thesnowdog




----------



## bostjan

Skip to 15 min to get to the part most related to this discussion.


----------



## musicaldeath

Good video. 

What is the neck shape like on these? I remember something about them being asymmetrical... is that to say that it is going to be thicker on the treble side and thinner on the bass (or vice-versa)? Sorry if this was answered earlier in the thread.


----------



## frank falbo

They aren’t asymmetrical like the necks Tosin was experimenting with. (The final Japan prototypes didn’t have that either) 

The necks are slim and fast. The 6 string is a little more flat-backed, then the 7 and 8 are each progressively more sloped on the shoulders.


----------



## WearYourWounds666

I’ve been following this thread for a while, and planned on buying a multi 8 and 7 as I REALLY love the design, but wanted to see a few reviews before pulling the trigger. The Japanese builds completely turned me off, and the more I read, the less likely I am to buy. Everything seems so shady, and nothing adds up.

In January you claimed to have all “first versions” of these guitars complete, but in your video(31:23ish) you say “everything we did was done for the very first time”. So which is it? Did you build a few protos first?(if so, where are they?) or did you offer us the world with ridiculously quick delivery times, without actually verifying any of these options? 

Also, you claimed the Japanese rushed this order... are you NOT the one that gives delivery times? In the video you claim there were a lot of Floyd orders, why give that option, commit to a delivery time and more importantly take money before ever testing said options? 

I also see a new Telecaster build(looks great!) What about customs? HAS ANYONE HERE SEEN THEIR CUSTOM? Any progress pics? If you’re so backed up with orders(and we’ve yet to see a custom)why is this Telecaster being done? 

Lucy got some splainin to do

Seems like a load of baiting bullshit at this point.


----------



## thesnowdog

frank falbo said:


> They aren’t asymmetrical like the necks Tosin was experimenting with. (The final Japan prototypes didn’t have that either)



So these guitars delivered to Japan are considered "prototypes"?

The question isn't intended as a gotcha I'm just curious on your perspective.


----------



## A-Branger

as far as I can take from all this, the guitars in Japan were

-Japanese people come to shop
-"we want teh guitars"
-"but they are not 100% ready yet"
-"Looks good to me, we want them now"
-"but...."
-"now"
-"ok then...... are you sure because..."
-"people wont mind, we need them now, we leave tomorrow"
-"there you go then"


----------



## StevenC

thesnowdog said:


> So these guitars delivered to Japan are considered "prototypes"?
> 
> The question isn't intended as a gotcha I'm just curious on your perspective.


I think he means Ibanezes


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> I think he means Ibanezes



Those weren't made in Japan. They had LACS markings.


----------



## frank falbo

StevenC said:


> I think he means Ibanezes





MaxOfMetal said:


> Those weren't made in Japan. They had LACS markings.



No, StevenC is right. I was referring to the prototypes that were made at Fujigen, not the LACS guitars. Sorry for sparking confusion by using the term “Japan prototypes”. I meant toward the end of the prototyping with Ibanez they had already gone with a symmetrical profile.


----------



## frank falbo

WearYourWounds666 said:


> In January you claimed to have all “first versions” of these guitars complete, but in your video(31:23ish) you say “everything we did was done for the very first time”. So which is it? Did you build a few protos first?(if so, where are they?) or did you offer us the world with ridiculously quick delivery times, without actually verifying any of these options?


As we went into NAMM, we had the 6/7/8 multiscale designs drawn, and all the basic CNC toolpaths for all the main cuts. This means that for those models you could put wood in the machine on spoiler board, and perform a cut “one at a time” after aligning the XYZ coordinates. When the orders flooded in, the process had to pivot to making the jigs for higher production quantities. You use the term “verifying” and that’s not something that comes into play here. I’ve been making guitars for many years. When it comes to programming the CNC there’s nothing to “verify” per se. I know what to draw, we draw it, then we program it. When I say things were being done for the first time, on the multiscales I mean that we were making the jigs as well as cutting the parts. On the Floyd models, we had the 6 string Floyd at NAMM, but the 7 & 8 were added to the list of R&D items, and adds time. 



WearYourWounds666 said:


> Also, you claimed the Japanese rushed this order... are you NOT the one that gives delivery times? In the video you claim there were a lot of Floyd orders, why give that option, commit to a delivery time and more importantly take money before ever testing said options?


Again, there’s not really anything to “test”. I’ve made many guitars with Floyd Rose and other trems over the years. There’s nothing to test, only draw and cut, and draw and cut jigs and fixtures for production quantities instead of small batches or one-offs. Sometimes when designing things for other manufacturers you get into what we call “bit offsets” where they have a cutter that is smaller than the diameter because it’s been resharpened. But when drawing for our own machine we already know our bit diameters. 



WearYourWounds666 said:


> I also see a new Telecaster build(looks great!) What about customs? HAS ANYONE HERE SEEN THEIR CUSTOM? Any progress pics? If you’re so backed up with orders(and we’ve yet to see a custom)why is this Telecaster being done?


Good question. R&D and production don’t necessarily compete for the same resources. Falbo Designs is both an R&D and manufacturing operation, and I’ve been head of various product development teams by vocation. R&D doesn’t stop if production is overloaded.

As for how it relates to the customs, we are in direct communication with the people who have placed custom orders and many of them have received progress pics directly. I just sent some last night in fact. Some of the photos we’ve shared on socials are of customs, although it would be hard to tell if it’s just a Wenge neck or something. Sometimes they show up on Falbo social media too. Generally if I post a photo of some amazing piece of wood, it was from a custom. The Wenge topped, Ash back 8 string on IG was a custom, completed and delivered. 

tl:dr If we had a small amount of orders at the outset of NAMM then my first 3 months of production would have looked a lot different; performing body and neck cuts as one-offs on spoiler board, while making dedicated fixtures and jigs in parallel as we scaled up.


----------



## jephjacques

Guy with three posts parachuting in to flame Frank, nice


----------



## musicaldeath

frank falbo said:


> They aren’t asymmetrical like the necks Tosin was experimenting with. (The final Japan prototypes didn’t have that either)
> 
> The necks are slim and fast. The 6 string is a little more flat-backed, then the 7 and 8 are each progressively more sloped on the shoulders.



Cool, thanks for the info!

After watching the video and going back to look at the now infamous neck joint, I see your point, especially when you show how the neck gets set so deep into the body. Thanks for sharing all that, it was a good watch, and for me at least, lays that whole issue to rest (but that's just like, my opinion... lol).


----------



## narad

jephjacques said:


> Guy with three posts parachuting in to flame Frank, nice



I know this is not sound reasoning for motivating purchases, but the more WearYourWounds666 posts, the more I want to order one.


----------



## Opion

Really enjoyed watching the Levi Clay interview. Can't wait for the next picture of a build to show up and the resulting 3 pages picking apart paint lines!


----------



## jephjacques

Here's the neck of mine in progress, got a nice figured ebony board and headstock veneer. Body will be 1pc mahogany with an open pore finish, I'm pumped and Frank has been great to deal with so far.


----------



## Vyn

That's one of the best interviews to watch. Kudos to Frank for putting the time aside for it!


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Any chances of doing a smaller scale fan on a 6? Like a 24.5-25.5?


----------



## frank falbo

As a custom, yes. But we would have to quote it, and it would have a longer lead time.


----------



## thesnowdog

Nice to see the new fret-slot style. It should help prevent those nasty cracks.


----------



## frank falbo

Haha true. The multiscales were all pocket frets. They have to be cut with a router bit in the CNC anyway. It can be tougher on the bit to plunge, so you break bits more often but it’s not too big of a deal. It does take a lot longer in the machine though. 

It’s the straight frets that we cut traditionally with the saw blade, so they went all the way through. 

But...we’ve since changed that too, so even the straight fret boards now have pocket frets as well.


----------



## cardinal

jephjacques said:


> Here's the neck of mine in progress, got a nice figured ebony board and headstock veneer. Body will be 1pc mahogany with an open pore finish, I'm pumped and Frank has been great to deal with so far.



Dude OMG they cut the fret slots crooked oh nooooo. And the dots are waaaay off center.

Joking aside, those fret slots do look very neat.


----------



## narad

frank falbo said:


> But...we’ve since changed that too, so even the straight fret boards now have pocket frets as well.



And we're not going to call them Pokéfrets?


----------



## jephjacques

narad said:


> And we're not going to call them Pokéfrets?



Steel/Grass type


----------



## jemfloral

jephjacques said:


> Steel/Grass type


 Steel/Electric, no?


----------



## jephjacques

jemfloral said:


> Steel/Electric, no?


f u c k


----------



## dr_game0ver

Stell/Grass if you play reggae.


----------



## pfizer

Are we going to see some headless models for summer NAMM? I'm holding off buying a Mayones Hydra or Padalka Neptune just to see what Frank and Tosin's headless models look like.


----------



## Mwoit

I've not been following this too closely but I applaud your patience for replying to people on this forum. I would have thought it would drive you nuts.


----------



## frank falbo

pfizer said:


> Are we going to see some headless models for summer NAMM? I'm holding off buying a Mayones Hydra or Padalka Neptune just to see what Frank and Tosin's headless models look like.


We aren’t doing Summer NAMM but headless are indeed right around the corner. Both of those guitars would be great choices too, but if you want to wait it won’t be much longer before we’re ready to share in progress photos.


----------



## GXPO

Mwoit said:


> I've not been following this too closely but I applaud your patience for replying to people on this forum. I would have thought it would drive you nuts.



The communication has been top notch by the looks of it, just can't wait to see some customs hitting people's hands for the full story.


----------



## prlgmnr

Mwoit said:


> I've not been following this too closely but I applaud your patience for replying to people on this forum. I would have thought it would drive you nuts.


If you follow the thread you'll see it drove his nuts just slightly narrower than some people would like


----------



## Matt08642

Mwoit said:


> I've not been following this too closely but I applaud your patience for replying to people on this forum. I would have thought it would drive you nuts.



This. If I were Frank, I'd have jettisoned myself tf away from here like 5 pages of accusations back: https://giant.gfycat.com/TornBrightAfricanaugurbuzzard.webm


----------



## narad

Matt08642 said:


> This. If I were Frank, I'd have jettisoned myself tf away from here like 5 pages of accusations back: https://giant.gfycat.com/TornBrightAfricanaugurbuzzard.webm



That footage is nuts!


----------



## jco5055

Is there any word about how customizable the guitars will be? I'm intrigued by them (and would love if I could buy an American guitar and support our economy) but I would want something like a neck thru multiscale with a T4m/Strandberg trem.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

jco5055 said:


> Is there any word about how customizable the guitars will be? I'm intrigued by them (and would love if I could buy an American guitar and support our economy) but I would want something like a neck thru multiscale with a T4m/Strandberg trem.



You can support an American Strandberg builder.


----------



## jephjacques

Some shots of a headless prototype up on their Instagram now


----------



## Avedas

Looks like a regular body so far. Dunno what I expected lol


----------



## JJ Smitee

Hi, newbie here: JJ’s my handle. L

Thank you all on SS for many forums that have been a big help in making purchases, and for me this was HUGE.

Got one here in Japan: played it twice at a shop in Tokyo, couldn’t forget it, went back to Osaka (2nd largest city) and a week later...


----------



## JJ Smitee

Sorry that got posted before I finished.

I got a 6 string with a maple ‘board. 

All I can say is it is very easy to play so far; the fanned frets cause an optical illusion for me in contrast with the maple, but the fingers fell in to place. It is a VERY high quality instrument. 

The pickups are a bit TOO clear: unforgiving, to be honest (lol). Makes me see I have more practicing to do, really.


----------



## A-Branger

thats a beauty :O !! congrats. Feel free to post more photos, we love those here  also feel free to create a NGD tread for it with more photos and info, congrats!


----------



## JJ Smitee

I shall indeed: I joined this site mainly to comment on this thread! Lol


----------



## Avedas

I checked out that exact guitar too and it's excellent. Congrats!


----------



## JJ Smitee

Avedas said:


> I checked out that exact guitar too and it's excellent. Congrats!



Hiya

Yep: Kurosawa in Shibuya: their 0% payment plan sealed it! LOL

I was in Tokyo after almost 20 years with my fiancé and I went to all the shops I’d only seen on Digimart! Lol 

I went to play that axe twice, and just couldn’t forget it (or the price tag lol), so I took a BIG dive.


----------



## jephjacques

Anybody else heard anything from them recently? I emailed about my order after three months of radio silence and have yet to get a reply.


----------



## pastanator

jephjacques said:


> Anybody else heard anything from them recently? I emailed about my order after three months of radio silence and have yet to get a reply.








i saw this in passing on the magnifying glass page on instagram a couple days ago.

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=wa20d3&s=9


----------



## Lorcan Ward

That's not good. There's nothing up on their FB or IG about it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal




----------



## StevenC

So now the question is, does Tosin go back to Ibanez? He had a big Ibanez banner in a recent Instagram post. No social media posts from them in 2 months.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

This would be such a let down, after all the fanfare, and all the people who were naysayers and not holding their breath about a new custom company and then all the push back from Abasi people especially on here and then they shit the bed.

edit: I guess those low serial numbers will be real collector items for sure now


----------



## Jonathan20022

Would be utterly disappointing if this is true, also makes me glad I held back on my order when we discussed it. @jephjacques any word on that custom you ordered?


----------



## lurè

Last time I checked they were only accepting waitlist, I thought it was a good sign , but I haven't seen a pic or an update on FB in a while.

I know there's no official statement yet, but I agree it would be higly disappointing if it's true.
Hoping all the orders will be completed at least.


----------



## jephjacques

Jonathan20022 said:


> Would be utterly disappointing if this is true, also makes me glad I held back on my order when we discussed it. @jephjacques any word on that custom you ordered?



No word on it from Abasi. SOME word from a third party, but nothing I feel comfortable talking about just yet. If I don't hear back from them in a week or so I'll go public with what I've been told, damn the torpedos. It's...not good.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Well, I wouldn't mind if he goes back to Ibanez..
That only means more people could enjoy those guitars!
Hell, they could hire Frank like they did with Sugi (M8M) for the high end model and also release the simpler black one they made before Tosin left. Everybody wins haha


----------



## Albake21

Damn I totally forgot about these...



jephjacques said:


> No word on it from Abasi. SOME word from a third party, but nothing I feel comfortable talking about just yet. If I don't hear back from them in a week or so I'll go public with what I've been told, damn the torpedos. It's...not good.


Well that sounds kinda scary. Hope all ends well.


----------



## Vyn

Albake21 said:


> Damn I totally forgot about these...
> 
> 
> Well that sounds kinda scary. Hope all ends well.



Last post on the Abasi Guitars IG was nearly two months ago. Strangely silent.


----------



## Randy

Remaining patient. Silence could mean a lot of things.

Related/unrelated, I'd love to get a final breakdown on how this whole concept came together. I remember something about Darren (decibel) being involved in the original design process. Obviously Tosin was an Ibanez endorsee, and the first prototypes and Tosin's personal guitars were made by LACS. Then ultimately Tosin ends up selling them under his own brand before Ibanez gets to produce a single one for sale, and they're produced by Frank Falbo, who also works for Fishman specifically on the Fluence line, in which Tosin has a signature model. Just a lot of moving parts and ultimately I'm kind of unsure of who owns the rights to what and when.

Anyway, to that point, I'd err on the side caution with assuming what's going on but it's silly season, so I guess all we can do now is speculate. 

Considering it seemed like Frank was doing this all on his own, he seemed to be overburdened by the volume and the commitments that came with the job; to the point there were clear QC issues and most likely production and delivery issues. This happens to be an especially fickle market that requires a LOT of hand holding, which already seemed to grate on his patience (based on his reaction to the things brought up in here).

Put that all together with Tosin and Frank's catalog, along with the history of this model already, it wouldn't surprise me if there's an interest and a scramble to get someone else to take up the bulk of the production with maybe Frank still overseeing things, and the reasons things have been so quiet is that the last few months have been more business work than wood work. Maybe. 

Considering the supposed volume of preorders and the price point of these, the really scaled down operations never made much sense to me. You look at a guy like Ola or Chappers or Ormsby and what they've been able to accomplish with their brands and you look at the price point of these, there should be enough 'meat on the bone' to just farm these out to someone better outfitted to push these out in volume and still have everyone make money.


----------



## Albake21

Honestly these should have been production guitars from the start. I always thought it was a really bad business decision to make them hand made and for so much money. They should have done cheaper production models and work the company to a point where they can do custom shop work. I guarantee these would have sold great if they were Japanese or Korean made for slightly under $2k.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Last I’d heard was that Abasi and Falbo decided no new orders would be taken until a sufficient dent was made to the backlog, and that orders would re-open with limited options until they could determine the most feasible and popular specs to offer. The implication was that the brand would go quiet in the meantime.

From what I’ve observed, the failure of most independent builders begins with the failure to understand that they only get paid for *completed *guitars.

Launching your brand with a flash-sale to be put on a year-long waitlist - with nothing to sustain business in the meantime but hype to do with the niche-celebrity of the principal investor - is only an enticement by SSO standards. For me, it’s like checking in on a guy shitting his pants.


----------



## guitaardvark

Albake21 said:


> Honestly these should have been production guitars from the start. I always thought it was a really bad business decision to make them hand made and for so much money. They should have done cheaper production models and work the company to a point where they can do custom shop work. I guarantee these would have sold great if they were Japanese or Korean made for slightly under $2k.



Tosin said that the reason he started Abasi guitars was because a production line under Ibanez would have been too expensive with the specs he wanted. Either way, I feel like an Ibanez in the M8M price range would have been a better move than entering the already saturated custom market.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Remember when he joined the djent market?


----------



## Vyn

guitaardvark said:


> Tosin said that the reason he started Abasi guitars was because a production line under Ibanez would have been too expensive with the specs he wanted. Either way, I feel like an Ibanez in the M8M price range would have been a better move than entering the already saturated custom market.



The Meshuggah route was actually a decent one - release a no-compromise model in the M8M and then later release a more affordable option.

From memory I though the bigger issue was that Tosin wanted to have 6 and 7 string options available as well were as Ibanez would have only given him an 8.


----------



## jephjacques

Personally I think EBMM would've been a good fit- seems like they'd happily do 6 and 7 strings considering the range of Petrucci stuff, they have a decent import label with SBMM, and their USA stuff is pretty impeccably high quality. They wouldn't have been cheap but they wouldn't be $6000 Sugi Ibanezes either.


----------



## Avedas

I actually really wanted one of these (although I didn't want to pay anywhere near $5000 for one). I'm glad I got a chance to play a couple I guess?


----------



## diagrammatiks

another day another builder. 

Gonna wait for jeph to break the news. I loves the drama.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I think ESP would have been the best fit if he wanted multiple signature models across multiple platforms with different string counts, as well as import models. Sticking with Ibanez probably would have been better to bridge the gap with wherever he's going next, if Abasi Guitars doesn't work out. 

Not knocking EBMM, but I don't see them tooling up for instruments like Tosin's, nor giving him Petrucci level artist treatment off the bat. Even if they did, they're so slow moving it would take even longer to get something to market, which is Tosin's biggest problem right now.

Jackson would have been an interesting choice, more rigid than ESP, but they have the capability of FMIC behind them.


----------



## Albake21

I'll be going to Tosin Abasi's clinic here in Chicago next Tuesday. If we do not here anything by then and I get the chance, I will for sure ask Tosin about it.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Really hope this is just a weird lack of communications. But like even if youre just working wait list orders a few in progress shots and some wtf is going on posts on their own social pages seems like the easy non sketchy thing to do.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I read they had 60 or so orders along with whatever in-stocks, artist, show builds etc and judging from IG they are also doing a lot of prototyping at the same time. Thats a lot of work for a new company to take on while trying to build their brand and scale up production. It mirrors what we've seen on here plenty of times before.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

I couldn't tell you the last time I posted to my social media accounts. If you haven't heard of specific issues then it seems like a leap to me to assume social media silence means another builder is screwing people over.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> Anybody else heard anything from them recently? I emailed about my order after three months of radio silence and have yet to get a reply.





jephjacques said:


> No word on it from Abasi. SOME word from a third party, but nothing I feel comfortable talking about just yet. If I don't hear back from them in a week or so I'll go public with what I've been told, damn the torpedos. It's...not good.





ElysianGuitars said:


> I couldn't tell you the last time I posted to my social media accounts. If you haven't heard of specific issues then it seems like a leap to me to assume social media silence means another builder is screwing people over.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

MaxOfMetal said:


>


Huh, seems strangely non-specific.

I wonder if it's related to Kiesel-endorsed Joss Allen?


----------



## spudmunkey

ElysianGuitars said:


> I couldn't tell you the last time I posted to my social media accounts. If you haven't heard of specific issues then it seems like a leap to me to assume social media silence means another builder is screwing people over.



Especially with NAMM only being 3 months away, for a smaller company, that's a LOT of work, and can leave little room for social media until they are much closer to the event. Not saying it's the case, but it's also not outside the realm of possible reality.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> Huh, seems strangely non-specific.
> 
> I wonder if it's related to Joss Allen?



A customer can't seem to get a hold of the builder after months of silence is the situation at hand, _not_ simply social media going silent for a bit as your post implied.

Also, not sure what Joss Allen's situation has anything to do with Jeph's. Unless you're saying Joss is doing something sketchy because he's a Kiesel artist. 

I too think it's too early to call Frank the next Bernie, but let's get the situation right.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

MaxOfMetal said:


> A customer can't seem to get a hold of the builder after months of silence is the situation at hand, _not_ simply social media going silent for a bit as your post implied.
> 
> Also, not sure what Joss Allen's situation has anything to do with Jeph's. Unless you're saying Joss is doing something sketchy because he's a Kiesel artist.
> 
> I too think it's too early to call Frank the next Bernie, but let's get the situation right.


Would be interested to know when Jeph sent the email, as I don't see that stated anywhere. Joss's "problem" was that he got a Kiesel endorsement after his Abasi order was started. His Abasi was an accommodation sale, AFAIK.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> Would be interested to know when Jeph sent the email, as I don't see that stated anywhere. Joss's "problem" was that he got a Kiesel endorse



I guess we'll find out in a week.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

ElysianGuitars said:


> I couldn't tell you the last time I posted to my social media accounts. If you haven't heard of specific issues then it seems like a leap to me to assume social media silence means another builder is screwing people over.



We've see this here before with Siggery, Invictus, Blackwater, BRJ, Decibel, Sabre etc. A social media silence is always a worrying sign. They are still building their brand and were very consistent with IG uploads so you can see why people are jumping to conclusions. Some of us are unfortunately quite experienced when it comes to these things.


----------



## Lemonbaby

Tosin actually said a few words about the company in an interview... 
https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/new...abasi_what_got_me_to_play_slap_on_guitar.html


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lemonbaby said:


> Tosin actually said a few words about the company in an interview...
> https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/new...abasi_what_got_me_to_play_slap_on_guitar.html



I wonder when the interview took place. The podcast where the interview was pulled from came out at the end of August. 

I wonder if they're changing facilities. Interesting stuff, good find.


----------



## Randy

> Abasi Guitars is upgrading production. We're gonna make a few changes. I think we'll have a more... As opposed to being just a custom shop where you literally can choose any species of wood on the planet, we're gonna actually limit those specs a bit because it's just more of a sustainable thing for us to deliver guitars on time. And just know what we're working with.



That's pretty close to what I said. I doubt they're going to Eastern Asia but I figured they needed someone already setup to run things off in volume and consistent, facility and man-power-wise.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> That's pretty close to what I said. I doubt they're going to Eastern Asia but I figured they needed someone already setup to run things off in volume and consistent, facility and man-power-wise.





Tosin's statement is a great contrast to the "I know what I'm doing" we saw earlier in here.


----------



## Albake21

ElysianGuitars said:


> I couldn't tell you the last time I posted to my social media accounts. If you haven't heard of specific issues then it seems like a leap to me to assume social media silence means another builder is screwing people over.


Which sounds like incredibly bad business to me. Not trying to sound like an asshole, just giving my perspective from the customer.


----------



## jephjacques

First email was sent 9/25. Only just got a reply this afternoon, asking to do a phone call.


----------



## Albake21

jephjacques said:


> First email was sent 9/25. Only just got a reply this afternoon, asking to do a phone call.


And what was that reply? You can't leave us hanging!


----------



## jephjacques

That was the reply, they want to talk on the phone.


----------



## Albake21

jephjacques said:


> That was the reply, they want to talk on the phone.


Ohh I thought you meant you got a reply and you personally asked for a phone call. Keep us updated.


----------



## jephjacques

Ok, just got off the phone with Tosin. I'm getting my deposit back and they're working on putting together an official statement about the status of Abasi Guitars. All parties involved have asked me to keep the details beyond that confidential, so I think that's it as far as I'm concerned. Bummer, but these things happen.


----------



## Vyn

jephjacques said:


> Ok, just got off the phone with Tosin. I'm getting my deposit back and they're working on putting together an official statement about the status of Abasi Guitars. All parties involved have asked me to keep the details beyond that confidential, so I think that's it as far as I'm concerned. Bummer, but these things happen.



Did he mention an ETA on the statement or just said that one was on the way?


----------



## Albake21

Well that's a bummer, but at least you got info from the man himself and you will be getting your money back.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

well, better that they cut the cord now instead of actually going down the decibel/vik/brj/etc route...


----------



## Albake21

Honestly, I'm really hoping they go the production route. Make these guitars more accessible and easier to make from a business stand point.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Damn that's a shame. I wonder what the statement will be and what it means for abasi guitars future. 2 months ago they were prototyping and finishing up builds, then silence for 2 months and now refunds for builds that were half built.


----------



## Randy

Lorcan Ward said:


> Damn that's a shame. I wonder what the statement will be and what it means for abasi guitars future. 2 months ago they were prototyping and finishing up builds, then silence for 2 months and now refunds for builds that were half built.



Could still be some of what's in the interview. If they need to find a shop with the capacity to deliver these reliably, that's probably going to be a several month to a year process. Refunds might be an offer for customers who don't want to wait to see what comes out on the other end. 

I'm still not suspecting a full shutdown until told otherwise.


----------



## jephjacques

At no point did I get the impression they were shutting down.


----------



## Albake21

jephjacques said:


> At no point did I get the impression they were shutting down.


I would be extremely surprised, I'm sure they are just trying to figure out the best way to produce these.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Seems as though they aimed high, hit well at first, and then were overwhelmed by manufacturing realities and perhaps demand. 

Sad to see, but from the info here, it sounds like they're taking a good course of action before things spiral down. 

I hope Abasi Guitars succeeds.


----------



## Avedas

As long as they're not calling it quits, I don't particularly mind. The guitars really are nice as fuck, and a production line might mean I could actually justify the cost at some point.


----------



## will_shred

Can someone give me a TL;DR status update since I haven't been keeping up with this thread?


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

will_shred said:


> Can someone give me a TL;DR status update since I haven't been keeping up with this thread?



Will you promise to not make a separate thread asking for people’s thoughts on Abasi Guitars?


----------



## will_shred

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Will you promise to not make a separate thread asking for people’s thoughts on Abasi Guitars?



yeah, I'm playing with the idea of jumping back into ERG world with a classy headless single cut 8 string. Abasi guitars, Kiesel Zeus, Fast Guitars and Drinkwater, are my top picks.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

will_shred said:


> yeah, I'm playing with the idea of jumping back into ERG world with a classy headless single cut 8 string. Abasi guitars, Kiesel Zeus, Fast Guitars and Drinkwater, are my top picks.



Does anything other than bragging rights separate those brands to you? If so, one will show itself as a clear contender.

Now: Considering Tosin’s apparently disbursing refunds over the phone like a telethon operator, you may wish to imagine yourself wearing one of the other three.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

will_shred said:


> yeah, I'm playing with the idea of jumping back into ERG world with a classy headless single cut 8 string. Abasi guitars, Kiesel Zeus, Fast Guitars and Drinkwater, are my top picks.



Do you know what you want?

None of those have even remotely the same price, lead time, overall aesthetic, etc.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Do you know what you want?
> 
> None of those have even remotely the same price, lead time, overall aesthetic, etc.



We already know every part of the guitar will be crowdsourced.


----------



## Randy

will_shred said:


> Can someone give me a TL;DR status update since I haven't been keeping up with this thread?



Alright, well, to ACTUALLY answer your question... there was ~3-4 months of silence from Abasi Guitars on social media and that was also paralleled with a lack of communication to people who had pre-orders, so there was some concern regarding what's happening behind the scenes. @jephjacques , who has an order with Abasi, emailed them and it took a while before they got back to him but ultimately they did, and it culminated in a phone call with Tosin. Jeph said he wouldn't divulge the details of the phone call but the two takeaways were that 1.) he was given a refund of his deposit 2.) Tosin said an official announcement is impending 3.) Jeph says he got no impression Abasi guitars is shutting down.

Also, Tosin gave an interview within the last couple months saying that they're changing some thing on the production side, so he also seems to indicate there were some kind of issues but the intention still isn't to close down.

MY personal interpretation is that they're likely unable to meet the demand with their current configurations (whether it's manpower or facilities or both) and they're exploring options to do that, but it'll likely take time and they're offering current customers an opt-out incase they don't want to wait.

That said, if you decided you HAD to go Abasi Guitars, I'd personally wait until that official announcement and see what kind of arrangement you're getting yourself into.


----------



## jephjacques

FYI I haven't gotten my refund *yet*. I was told to expect it in a few days after the call. Just clarifying what I was told.


----------



## lurè

Randy said:


> MY personal interpretation is that they're likely unable to meet the demand with their current configurations (whether it's manpower or facilities or both) and they're exploring options to do that, but it'll likely take time and they're offering current customers an opt-out incase they don't want to wait.



That's pretty much my point of view about the situation.
Also, they're probably figuring out if it's the case to move production in a factory and if they can keep aiming that high with the price.

Are they gonna do like a Strandberg's Boden model for a larger public and reserve some orders for custom instruments?

Who knows, hope the situation gets clear sono.


----------



## A-Branger

Randy said:


> MY personal interpretation



Please people read that twice and stick it into your minds until an official statement is released from Abasi Guitars themselves


I know this is the internet and there would always be taht one guy who skim trough and take a personal opinion as a official statement from a company and then spread the word around like wild fire


----------



## will_shred

MaxOfMetal said:


> Do you know what you want?
> 
> None of those have even remotely the same price, lead time, overall aesthetic, etc.



Well Kiesel is the best turnaround time and price, but there are some things about the design I don't like (the bridge pickup angle is something I'm very picky about). The Fast Guitars falcon is fucking sweet, the price is pretty average from what I understand. Would drinkwater be more expensive than fast? 

Its like, the market for headless single cut 8 strings is pretty small. I haven't ever commissioned a guitar before, but I've been on this forum long enough to have a decent idea of what to look for.


----------



## makecamera

will_shred said:


> Well Kiesel is the best turnaround time and price, but there are some things about the design I don't like (the bridge pickup angle is something I'm very picky about). The Fast Guitars falcon is fucking sweet, the price is pretty average from what I understand. Would drinkwater be more expensive than fast?
> 
> Its like, the market for headless single cut 8 strings is pretty small. I haven't ever commissioned a guitar before, but I've been on this forum long enough to have a decent idea of what to look for.



Don't think Drinkwater is doing anything headless at the moment. Add the Padalka Saturn to your headless single-cut list too.

Edit: to stay on topic, given the tentative news from Abasi Guitars, it seems like it would be a long wait before you got a completed guitar from them (although I'd wait for the official announcement to be sure). So if you're looking for something relatively quickly, I'd be looking at other options. Get the Fast Falcon! I've been waiting on a review for that.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Not to derail but isnt drinkwater OEM by Fast so same quality??


----------



## Albake21

Dineley said:


> Not to derail but isnt drinkwater OEM by Fast so same quality??


Also a quick follow up question, where are Fast guitars made?


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Albake21 said:


> Also a quick follow up question, where are Fast guitars made?



British Columbia Canada. Not sure exact city though im sure the info is available somewhere


----------



## makecamera

Dineley said:


> British Columbia Canada. Not sure exact city though im sure the info is available somewhere



Vancouver


----------



## Albake21

Dineley said:


> British Columbia Canada. Not sure exact city though im sure the info is available somewhere


Oh wow, I figured they were imports. They are priced nicely for being made in Canada.


----------



## diagrammatiks

it's not like tooling up to do Ormsby or strandberg style asian production is that easy tho.

At least if you ordered one tosin calls you on the telephone. that's pretty legit.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Not as legit as getting the guitar you ordered.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Not as legit as getting the guitar you ordered.



But like you get all your money back and a call. That’s worth at least 60 bucks.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

diagrammatiks said:


> But like you get all your money back and a call. That’s worth at least 60 bucks.



Animals As Leaders In Customer Service.


----------



## Randy

Being able to SAY you had a preorder with Abasi Guitars isworth at least $500 in internet reputation points anyway.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Randy said:


> Being able to SAY you had a preorder with Abasi Guitars isworth at least $500 in internet reputation points anyway.



And if you keep your pre-order instead of taking the refund you are guaranteed an even lower serial number.


----------



## spudmunkey

Dineley said:


> And if you keep your pre-order instead of taking the refund you are guaranteed an even lower serial number.



Jokes on you: the serial numbers will be randomly generated. Mwahahaha!


----------



## diagrammatiks

Let’s just all remember that I sold some to the Japanese is not a reasonable explanation, excuse, or confirmation of anything. 

They will buy anything. 

Source: wall of claas at a Japanese guitar shop


----------



## jephjacques

Haha I saw some Acacias in Japan too


----------



## Avedas

These shops will buy anything. So many random boutique guitars that have been on their racks for years.


----------



## jephjacques

Final update: got my refund. Shitty situation, but I'm satisfied with how it was resolved


----------



## cardinal

Glad the refund actually came through


----------



## Albake21

cardinal said:


> Glad the refund actually came through


Tosin has too big of a following to screw with people's money. His career would be over if he took it and ran.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Albake21 said:


> Tosin has too big of a following to screw with people's money. His career would be over if he took it and ran.



Keith Merrow shilled for BRJ till the very end and no one seems to remember that. 

Big followings insulate more than anything else. 

But, it's good that Jeph got his money back, I hope everyone fairs as well.


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> Keith Merrow shilled for BRJ till the very end and no one seems to remember that.
> 
> Big followings insulate more than anything else.
> 
> But, it's good that Jeph got his money back, I hope everyone fairs as well.



Pepperidge Farm remembers....

But yeah, there have been loads of guys who repped companies that ended up hosing people. Ultimately, the only ones left holding the bag (that doesn't contain a guitar) is the people who paid out money.


----------



## Hollowway

diagrammatiks said:


> At least if you ordered one tosin calls you on the telephone. that's pretty legit.



True, although I'd make him record a greeting for my phone. "Hi, this is Tosin Abasi, guitarist from Animals as Leaders. Andy can't come to the phone right now, prolly cuz he is jamming with me, but leave your name and number, and we'll get right back atcha."


----------



## jephjacques

"Hi, I'm Tosin Abasi and Phil Collins is my favorite musician of all time. If I ever deny this in the future I am lying."


----------



## jemfloral

Update from my headless Abasi pre-order: I had discussed some options with Tosin over the phone just prior to Jeph's conversation with him. Was really hoping that there was a way to finish my build as it was already well underway and I had picked out an incredible top for it, which was glued to the body months ago and routed for headless hardware, neck, etc. Unfortunately completing it isn't an option at this point, and I received a full refund this morning. Really hoping they reach out at some point in the future to say "hey, we can finally complete your build now!" but not going to hold my breath.


----------



## Albake21

jemfloral said:


> Update from my headless Abasi pre-order: I had discussed some options with Tosin over the phone just prior to Jeph's conversation with him. Was really hoping that there was a way to finish my build as it was already well underway and I had picked out an incredible top for it, which was glued to the body months ago and routed for headless hardware, neck, etc. Unfortunately completing it isn't an option at this point, and I received a full refund this morning. Really hoping they reach out at some point in the future to say "hey, we can finally complete your build now!" but not going to hold my breath.


Seems weird that they would put in that much work and then not finish it. Gave a full refund too... seems like such a waste. I don't get what they will do with it now. Did they run out of funds or something? This seems a bit weird.


----------



## Jonathan20022

I don't think they'd be issuing refunds if they had literally run out of funds. There has to be some kind of reason for this halt in production, maybe wood supply was compromised? Who knows, I hope they can get everything back on track.


----------



## Albake21

Jonathan20022 said:


> I don't think they'd be issuing refunds if they had literally run out of funds. There has to be some kind of reason for this halt in production, maybe wood supply was compromised? Who knows, I hope they can get everything back on track.


Well running out of funds were the wrong words. But maybe they projected they wouldn't have enough so they refunded before that would happen. As a business, they could always take out a loan if they were close to running out of funds to refund everyone.


----------



## Randy

jemfloral said:


> Update from my headless Abasi pre-order: I had discussed some options with Tosin over the phone just prior to Jeph's conversation with him. Was really hoping that there was a way to finish my build as it was already well underway and I had picked out an incredible top for it, which was glued to the body months ago and routed for headless hardware, neck, etc. Unfortunately completing it isn't an option at this point, and I received a full refund this morning. Really hoping they reach out at some point in the future to say "hey, we can finally complete your build now!" but not going to hold my breath.



To clarify 'liking' this, I'm not happy about your misfortune or their's but I'm glad you got your refund and that you're keeping us all updated. 



Albake21 said:


> Seems weird that they would put in that much work and then not finish it. Gave a full refund too... seems like such a waste. I don't get what they will do with it now.



We've seen that happen a few times, actually. There was just recently a guy on Metalguitarist that had an order with Sims that has been dragging on and on and on for years, and he threatened civil action against Sims, and within a week the guitar neck showed up completely finished and in pristine shape.

That said, there's a lot of different scenarios where that could happen. 

It might not be about running out of money to actually completely the build as far as resources go, but maybe not enough to pay labor or potentially even a falling out between the company and production facility (in this case, Tosin and Frank), or Frank has other commitments/issues preventing him from being able to put in the rest of the work on these no matter how far along they are. In any of those scenarios, it might make sense to hang onto the half built guitars with the expectation of either 1.) having them finished if/when another producer is found 2.) if the intent is to SELL the company or the IP, as much stock as possible would be worth more in value than Tosin would be getting in shipping half built guitars to people for the cost of the deposits 3.) if Tosin's intention is for Abasi Guitars to continue in full, you don't want guitars out there with your name on them that were half completed by people in their garage.


----------



## jemfloral

As Jeph said before there's more to the story, but its not my place to disclose. I think it's best we all wait and see what their next newsletter indicates.


----------



## Albake21

jemfloral said:


> As Jeph said before there's more to the story, but its not my place to disclose. I think it's best we all wait and see what their next newsletter indicates.


Can I at least ask if you got a time frame of when they will disclose everything?


----------



## Randy

Not asking you to divulge anything you're not supposed to but if Tosin is using half-built guitars to construct a palace on a private island, blink twice.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

Randy said:


> Not asking you to divulge anything you're not supposed to but if Tosin is using half-built guitars to construct a palace on a private island, blink twice.



Surrounded by The Abasea.


----------



## narad

Kyle Jordan said:


> Surrounded by The Abasea.



Wind in my hair, Tosin the sand, waves of babies crashing against the shore. Sounds nice.


----------



## spudmunkey

"_La Isla Abasina..._"


----------



## jemfloral

@Randy blink blink

@Albake21 there wasn't any mention of timing of anything in our discussion, sorry mate, i was more concerned about the fate of my would-be guitar


----------



## BrailleDecibel

narad said:


> Wind in my hair, Tosin the sand, waves of babies crashing against the shore. Sounds nice.


All unfounded rumors, my dudes. He's really up here with me in the Pacific Northwest, building a cabin out of defective Abasi Guitars necks in the Ka$hcade Mountains.


----------



## jephjacques

If you like Tosin Abasi, and getting caught in the rain 
If you're not into yoga, if you have half a brain 
If you like making love at midnight, in the dunes of the cape 
I'm the love that you've looked for, write to me, and escape


----------



## Andromalia

I still find this whole situation weird. "We have too many orders, let's stop production!"
Realising you have to scale up is a thing, but why stop production meanwhile ?


----------



## spudmunkey

Andromalia said:


> I still find this whole situation weird. "We have too many orders, let's stop production!"
> Realising you have to scale up is a thing, but why stop production meanwhile ?



From a PR standpoint, it's better to just stop and have people dissapointed that their order was cancelled, but then they'll get over it. But keep them waiting for waaaaaaaaaay longer that expected, especially if they've paid any money, and you've got potential to have a whole lot of pissed off people.

[needless, and only barely relevant anecdote #1]
There's a new brunch place near my house that leaves half of their tables empty, even though there's a line of dozens of people out the door. It's better for them for people to just give up waiting for 10 minutes and walk away when the line doesn't move much, than it is to seat more people, who then are now waiting very long time for their food, in a more crowded and louder environment, and now that they've made it inside and ordered food, they feel more invested so they are less likely to simply leave, and now start complaining out loud about how long they've been waiting, complaining about slow service, chatting to other customers at the neighboring tables, etc. Of those two scenarios, which one is more likely to write a dissatisfied review on Yelp?[/needless, and only barely relevant anecdote #1]


[needless, and only barely relevant anecdote #2]
I had a friend who wanted to start a laminate worksurface business out of his shed. Things were going well when he was getting only orders for 10-20 table or desk tops at time. He was building a reputation for being really affordable, quick, and easy to work with as they were a "small" shop. Because he only had a few of the "basic" tools needed, lots of things had to be done by hand, but since it was just him and not his primary job, he could afford to spend as much time as he needed to get things made to a high standard. At one point, within 2 days of each other, he took on two orders for 600+ desk tops. The supply chain got too hard to manage, the amount of money that needed to be spend in advance on procuring materials was very very high, suddenly having to hire more people who were not only untrained in general, but definitely didn't have the skills for the hand work needed to make up for the shortcomings of his power tools, and then even just the sheer amount of space required...in the end, he ended up botching those two large (for him...but still tiny for most established manufacturers) orders. Those two furniture dealers refused to ever work with him again because in the end, they waited too long for items that were still rushed and of not-great quality...and in the end, he simply couldn't afford to replace them himself, and the customer ended up having to replace almost all of the desk tops from another supplier.[/needless, and only barely relevant anecdote #2]


----------



## Demiurge

I guess it's hard for a builder to say "no" at the beginning when the orders are flowing in... especially if the deposits are less to cover the cost of parts & supplies and more the business' seed money.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The think it's best at this point to wait and hear what's going on...if we ever really find out. I wouldn't hold my breath.


----------



## jemfloral

For me, it's not just the disappointment of not getting the guitar I ordered (and which had been half-built); it's also the disappointment of having sold off my two Boden 8's with the IPNP neck profile in order to fund the deposit and make sure I had enough to cover the final balance payment. Those are two guitars that I'm not getting back...


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah jemfloral you got way more boned than I did :/


----------



## Mathemagician

I’m still not figuring out why SO many people seem to have gone whole hog in on an unproven new builder with no existing supply chain or clientele, to the point where the owners who clearly never did estimates on what volume their current set up could handle had to completely stop producing instruments. 

Like (afaik) these were fully-priced non discounted instruments from a model of which only a handful of prototypes existed.


----------



## jephjacques

Because they wanted a guitar that looked cool? I mean I only have a bachelor's degree but I asked my friend who's a rocket scientist and he says that's probably why


----------



## Albake21

jemfloral said:


> For me, it's not just the disappointment of not getting the guitar I ordered (and which had been half-built); it's also the disappointment of having sold off my two Boden 8's with the IPNP neck profile in order to fund the deposit and make sure I had enough to cover the final balance payment. Those are two guitars that I'm not getting back...


Damn man, I'm really sorry to hear that. That's pretty rough to hear. I hope you can get one back in the future.



Mathemagician said:


> I’m still not figuring out why SO many people seem to have gone whole hog in on an unproven new builder with no existing supply chain or clientele, to the point where the owners who clearly never did estimates on what volume their current set up could handle had to completely stop producing instruments.
> 
> Like (afaik) these were fully-priced non discounted instruments from a model of which only a handful of prototypes existed.


To be fair, Frank actually has a reputation as a builder. Not only that, but Tosin is a huge name in the business right now. You would think he would be very trustworthy enough to put his name on something like this.


----------



## cardinal

The first guitars had to be bought by someone. Bummer that this flamed out.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Mathemagician said:


> I’m still not figuring out why SO many people seem to have gone whole hog in on an unproven new builder with no existing supply chain or clientele, to the point where the owners who clearly never did estimates on what volume their current set up could handle had to completely stop producing instruments.
> 
> Like (afaik) these were fully-priced non discounted instruments from a model of which only a handful of prototypes existed.



This is ss.org man. There is no why.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> I’m still not figuring out why SO many people seem to have gone whole hog in on an unproven new builder with no existing supply chain or clientele, to the point where the owners who clearly never did estimates on what volume their current set up could handle had to completely stop producing instruments.
> 
> Like (afaik) these were fully-priced non discounted instruments from a model of which only a handful of prototypes existed.



For the low serial numbers.


----------



## Randy

Albake21 said:


> To be fair, Frank actually has a reputation as a builder. Not only that, but Tosin is a huge name in the business right now. You would think he would be very trustworthy enough to put his name on something like this.



Which is totally fair. But nothing about what you say here couldn't have been applied to Bernie Rico Jr. and the army of bulb, Keith Merrow and others who were endorsing them. Big names =/= guaranteed delivery.


----------



## Albake21

Randy said:


> Which is totally fair. But nothing about what you say here couldn't have been applied to Bernie Rico Jr. and the army of bulb, Keith Merrow and others who were endorsing them. Big names =/= guaranteed delivery.


Oh 100% I agree. Just something I'd throw out there for being a reason to what Mathemagician asked.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

They're cursed. The design itself. I guess Tosin drew inspiration from drawings found on desecrated native burial grounds.

I mean Ibanez couldn't get them done in over two years, and Abasi (company not person) certainly hasn't done much better in the last year plus. 

We're not talking about Legator and Etheriel here, but two supposedly competent examples of their respective places in the guitar sphere. 

So if Tosin could please appease whatever ancient wind spirits he pissed off, it would be cool to see something come of this design.


----------



## Albake21

MaxOfMetal said:


> They're cursed. The design itself. I guess Tosin drew inspiration from drawings found on desecrated native burial grounds.
> 
> I mean Ibanez couldn't get them done in over two years, and Abasi (company not person) certainly hasn't done much better in the last year plus.
> 
> We're not talking about Legator and Etheriel here, but two supposedly competent examples of their respective places in the guitar sphere.
> 
> So if Tosin could please appease whatever ancient wind spirits he pissed off, it would be cool to see something come of this design.


Well as of right now, Tosin is on vacation, so..... hopefully soon? /s


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> I mean Ibanez couldn't get them done in over two years, and Abasi (company not person) certainly hasn't done much better in the last year plus.



AliExpress seem to be having no issues.


----------



## Mathemagician

That’s the thing Frank was known as a builder, but was he sitting on top of an existing company IE “Frank’s custom and production model industries” with existing revenue and clientele to where he could just scale up as needed, or was this a “ground level” start up operation? It always looked like “we’re starting this partnership from scratch folks”.

The sarcastic answer about a “cool” guitar - just buy a cool guitar or place an order once they start getting out into the Wild. It’s like pre-ordering a video game. The game will still be good if you pick it up on release day once the reviews are out that it’s good. 

As for “low serial #” that’s fine if one is in the financial position to be a collector. But the models MOST likely to have minor kinks to be worked out would be the lowest serial numbers. 

How many revisions to their bridge has strandberg made for example? I’m sure Frank and Tosin are actually good dudes and not making off with people’s cash etc, but it’s always weird to see the SSO cult jump on the next bandwagon without fail and then act like it’s the first time a brand new start up operation has run into production difficulties. 

I’m just hoping they keep issuing refunds as the requests come in as that would do a lot to salvage the rep once/if they do get things started up again. That seems to be the most beneficial thing for existing deposit.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> AliExpress seem to be having no issues.



Probably have nice clear coats too.



Mathemagician said:


> As for “low serial #” that’s fine if one is in the financial position to be a collector. But the models MOST likely to have minor kinks to be worked out would be the lowest serial numbers.



r/woooosh


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Mathemagician said:


> That’s the thing Frank was known as a builder, but was he sitting on top of an existing company IE “Frank’s custom and production model industries” with existing revenue and clientele to where he could just scale up as needed, or was this a “ground level” start up operation? It always looked like “we’re starting this partnership from scratch folks”.
> 
> The sarcastic answer about a “cool” guitar - just buy a cool guitar or place an order once they start getting out into the Wild. It’s like pre-ordering a video game. The game will still be good if you pick it up on release day once the reviews are out that it’s good.
> 
> As for “low serial #” that’s fine if one is in the financial position to be a collector. But the models MOST likely to have minor kinks to be worked out would be the lowest serial numbers.
> 
> How many revisions to their bridge has strandberg made for example? I’m sure Frank and Tosin are actually good dudes and not making off with people’s cash etc, but it’s always weird to see the SSO cult jump on the next bandwagon without fail and then act like it’s the first time a brand new start up operation has run into production difficulties.
> 
> I’m just hoping they keep issuing refunds as the requests come in as that would do a lot to salvage the rep once/if they do get things started up again. That seems to be the most beneficial thing for existing deposit.


Frank has been a builder for some time now, and had a full shop already up and running when he started on this, mainly making acoustics and hollow bodies. At one point a few years ago I was considering going to work for him, but had just signed a lease on a house and had other things get in the way, like the whole moving to California bit. I've played several of his guitars, his acoustics are some of the best I've ever heard due to his cantilevered bridge, and the craftsmanship is right up there with any other boutique acoustic. His hollow body electrics are pretty wild as well.

I'd posit there's more going on here than is being let on, but I guess we'll find out when Tosin makes his announcement.


----------



## Avedas

If $5000 were a trivial amount to me, I would have bought the Abasi I played. It was sublime.


----------



## jephjacques

Haha, I wouldn't have paid 5 grand for one. Those Japanese prices are highway robbery. But it definitely would've been worth the $3400 I was on the hook for with my order.

I think Max is right and these guitars are cursed.


----------



## Randy

"Cursed" is a good word for it but look at Strandberg. They had that messy attempt at a Boden roll-out with Strictly 7, then again with the Washburn custom shop, there may have been one more, but they settled on WMI and things have been consistent since. Actually, even before the Boden roll-out was the attempt at licensing the design and that also ended up having a lot of warts.

You can actually plot a similar line with Ola's 'Solar' models, which coincidentally also started at Strictly 7, then I believe were Washburn CS, then Washburn full production (also east Asia, maybe even WMI as well?) and eventually landing on his feet pretty well where he is now.

So, I mean, there are growing pains to be expected.


----------



## Albake21

Randy said:


> "Cursed" is a good word for it but look at Strandberg. They had that messy attempt at a Boden roll-out with Strictly 7, then again with the Washburn custom shop, there may have been one more, but they settled on WMI and things have been consistent since. Actually, even before the Boden roll-out was the attempt at licensing the design and that also ended up having a lot of warts.
> 
> You can actually plot a similar line with Ola's 'Solar' models, which coincidentally also started at Strictly 7, then I believe were Washburn CS, then Washburn full production (also east Asia, maybe even WMI as well?) and eventually landing on his feet pretty well where he is now.
> 
> So, I mean, there are growing pains to be expected.


Well the difference with Ola is that those were just signature guitars from Strictly 7 and Washburn. He had no part in the companies. Now Solar guitars is his own full company, not his signature guitars.


----------



## Randy

Albake21 said:


> Well the difference with Ola is that those were just signature guitars from Strictly 7 and Washburn. He had no part in the companies. Now Solar guitars is his own full company, not his signature guitars.



True, although he must've had some license to the design because he carried (mostly) the same silhouette over from place to place as well as the logo. The theme is still there, which is having a design and having to find somebody capable of producing it and getting it to market.


----------



## Albake21

Randy said:


> True, although he must've had some license to the design because he carried (mostly) the same silhouette over from place to place as well as the logo. The theme is still there, which is having a design and having to find somebody capable of producing it and getting it to market.


Yeah to be honest I'm not sure how he got away with keeping the design of the Washburn models. As for the logo, that's his logo and he owns it. I'm pretty sure it was a deal for the companies to use the logo, but ultimately Ola still owned the full rights to it.


----------



## Matt08642

I wonder if anyone ordered an Abasi guitar and an Invective. Poor dude has like.. a few cables and a whole lot of anticipation


----------



## Albake21

Matt08642 said:


> I wonder if anyone ordered an Abasi guitar and an Invective. Poor dude has like.. a few cables and a whole lot of anticipation


Why the Invective? You've been able to buy the Invective for almost a year now and is still in stock now.


----------



## cardinal

Albake21 said:


> Yeah to be honest I'm not sure how he got away with keeping the design of the Washburn models. As for the logo, that's his logo and he owns it. I'm pretty sure it was a deal for the companies to use the logo, but ultimately Ola still owned the full rights to it.



He may be savvy enough to actually have trademarked his sig guitar designs and Washburn has to license from him rather than Washburn just drawing it up for him and paying him just for his name.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Albake21 said:


> Well the difference with Ola is that those were just signature guitars from Strictly 7 and Washburn. He had no part in the companies. Now Solar guitars is his own full company, not his signature guitars.



You mean like how the Abasi singlecut's development started out as just a signature model from Ibanez, a company in which Tosin had no part? And how now Abasi guitars is his own full company?

You're right, that's a huge difference.


----------



## Albake21

Grand Moff Tim said:


> You mean like how the Abasi singlecut's development started out as just a signature model from Ibanez, a company in which Tosin had no part? And how now Abasi guitars is his own full company?
> 
> You're right, that's a huge difference.


Except it never hit the market... So yes, it is completely different.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Albake21 said:


> Except it never hit the market... So yes, it is completely different.



He had other models out with them already, though. Yes, this one was different, but the parallel is there. If we're talking about starting out one place and then striking out on your own being a cause for expecting growing pains (which we were), it's not really all that different.


----------



## Albake21

Grand Moff Tim said:


> He had other models out with them already, though. Yes, this one was different, but the parallel is there. If we're talking about starting out one place and then striking out on your own being a cause for expecting growing pains (which we were), it's not really all that different.


Ehh yeah that's fair.


----------



## Lemonbaby

That took a really disappointing turn after the initial press releases. I had to dig the link back out, but at that time they didn't expect any capacity issues... like, ever. -> “My overarching design philosophy is carve the first one and CNC [_Computer Numerical Control_] the rest. Sculpt the first so you know what you’re repeating with the CNC. That’s how you maintain unparalleled quality and consistency levels—a balance of automation and hand work. In this case, a very capable U.S. shop will be able to fulfill orders and meet demand, no matter how big it scales."


----------



## SDMFVan

It's almost like being a good guitar player or luthier doesn't automatically equate into being good at business. Nobody could have anticipated that.


----------



## Soya

Frank 'I know what I'm doing' Falbo.


----------



## Andromalia

Lemonbaby said:


> will be able to fulfill orders and meet demand, no matter how big it scales."


That's what she said.


----------



## cardinal

Shoulda read that Ron Thorn thread on CNC and how a state of the art shop might still take 70 hours of “by hand” luthier time for each guitar.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Soya said:


> Frank 'I know what I'm doing' Falbo.



...he actually does know what he's doing: http://www.falboguitars.com/


----------



## Soya

Yes, this thread is a testament to that.


----------



## WearYourWounds666

According to the Falbo Facebook, he’s still active... just not sure if it’s Abasi related. 

My guess is he couldn’t keep up with production and they had to change builders.


----------



## Randy

Lemonbaby said:


> That took a really disappointing turn after the initial press releases. I had to dig the link back out, but at that time they didn't expect any capacity issues... like, ever. -> “My overarching design philosophy is carve the first one and CNC [_Computer Numerical Control_] the rest. Sculpt the first so you know what you’re repeating with the CNC. That’s how you maintain unparalleled quality and consistency levels—a balance of automation and hand work. In this case, a very capable U.S. shop will be able to fulfill orders and meet demand, no matter how big it scales."





cardinal said:


> Shoulda read that Ron Thorn thread on CNC and how a state of the art shop might still take 70 hours of “by hand” luthier time for each guitar.





WearYourWounds666 said:


> According to the Falbo Facebook, he’s still active... just not sure if it’s Abasi related.
> 
> My guess is he couldn’t keep up with production and they had to change builders.



Reminder that this is all still entirely speculation. No, people not getting their guitars and having to pursue refunds is not a good sign but both people in this thread and at least on person who knows Frank (Elysian) has said there's more to the story and it doesn't include going out of business.

I was just as skeptical as anyone else when this started and Frank's insistence didn't make me any more confident, but I'd rather be proven wrong and everyone got their guitar and Frank/Tosin got paid. Nothing about this or the slow grind waiting for an official word makes me happy.

So that said, things don't look good but I'd stop short of celebrating around this current situation from both a moral position and also because it seems a bit premature.


----------



## Soya

The baffling part to me is keeping everything in utter secrecy like a Pentagon cover up or something. If they were getting sued by Ibanez over copyright infringement and he was legally advised not to discuss it, that would be one thing. But otherwise completely dropping off communication and just waiting and waiting to explain the situation can't be benefitting anybody, potential customers especially.


----------



## Vyn

Soya said:


> The baffling part to me is keeping everything in utter secrecy like a Pentagon cover up or something. If they were getting sued by Ibanez over copyright infringement and he was legally advised not to discuss it, that would be one thing. But otherwise completely dropping off communication and just waiting and waiting to explain the situation can't be benefitting anybody, potential customers especially.



I'm willing to bet you've nailed the problem on the head - I'd be willing to bet that possibly Tosin doesn't have as much ownership over the shape as he thought.


----------



## Albake21

Huh... that's definitely an interesting thought about Ibanez still owning the shape. It for sure would be an explanation for everything here.


----------



## Bdtunn

I hope its the case of shouldn’t over couldn’t.
Franks a great builder and a great guy from my interactions with him.


----------



## SubzeroJake

Just wanted to point out that Frank has been removed from their website https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/about


----------



## Albake21

SubzeroJake said:


> Just wanted to point out that Frank has been removed from their website https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/about


Okay.... I guess it isn't an Ibanez lawsuit then.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Soya said:


> Yes, this thread is a testament to that.



Is it? We essentially have zero information other than production has stopped/isn't happening and people are being given refunds. Everything else is speculation so it seems really dumb to imply that one of the individuals involved doesn't actually know what he's doing, when he does in fact have a very successful history in the industry. When more information comes out feel free to start mud slinging, but until then it doesn't really add anything to the discourse  

I wouldn't be surprised if there are legal reasons preventing information from being released right now. The lack of transparency isn't helping anything, but as long as people get full refunds no harm is done. There's _always _some level of risk related to being in the initial run of a product from a startup. This isn't some sort of Sims or Bernie Rico situation where people received false updates for years and had to fight to get anything back from the manufacturer.


----------



## narad

SubzeroJake said:


> Just wanted to point out that Frank has been removed from their website https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/about



Whelp, there goes my interest. Probably heading to Korea or something.


----------



## Randy

wannabguitarist said:


> Is it? We essentially have zero information other than production has stopped/isn't happening and people are being given refunds. .



Unless "holding up production, not updating customers on what's going on, offer refunds if they complain" was the mission from the beginning, there is at least some room to admit a misfire. 

They're a guitar company. Nobody gave them a deposit with the intention of getting it back 8 months later. If the end result is anything other than people being delivered their guitar, somebody fucked up, I'm sorry.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Randy said:


> Unless "holding up production, not updating customers on what's going on, offer refunds if they complain" was the mission from the beginning, there is at least some room to admit a misfire.
> 
> They're a guitar company. Nobody gave them a deposit with the intention of getting it back 8 months later. If the end result is anything other than people being delivered their guitar, somebody fucked up, I'm sorry.



I didn't intend for that come off as "no one screwed up," because something absolutely did not go as expected. Mistakes were made and hopefully some ownership is taken by the individuals involved at some point. This obviously really sucks for the individuals that expected guitars.

There are parties to blame here, but we don't know what's happened yet. My point was it's just in poor taste to imply someone that has a successful professional history doesn't know what they're doing given the lack of information.

Maybe I'm expecting to much nuance in this discussion. I have no skin in the game here.


----------



## Soya

I wasn't slinging mud per se, I was directly quoting what frank said earlier in this thread about himself. If at this point in the situation that is more of a cheeky insult than a simple fact, I can't really be blamed for that


----------



## Avedas

SubzeroJake said:


> Just wanted to point out that Frank has been removed from their website https://www.abasiguitarsusa.com/about


RIP

I have a strong feeling if this model ever makes it to production it's going to be a QC mess like Strandberg.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Avedas said:


> RIP
> 
> I have a strong feeling if this model ever makes it to production it's going to be a QC mess like Strandberg.



I don't know. Strandberg was something of a shit show because Ola trusted the wrong people. 

If Tosin just decides to go a route more similar to Chapman or Solar it would be different.

I have a feeling that's what's going to happen. It's a far quicker, more scalable solution. It'll turn a profit much faster too.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

MaxOfMetal said:


> If Tosin just decides to go a route more similar to Chapman or Solar it would be different.
> 
> I have a feeling that's what's going to happen. It's a far quicker, more scalable solution. It'll turn a profit much faster too.



If folks want the "Abasi Guitars" logo, that's one thing, if they want a handmade American custom shop guitar with the "Abasi Guitars" logo that's another. Personally if I'd put a deposit on a guitar from a USA luthier and was offered a guitar from a Korean production line, I'd probably want my money back pretty quickly. And there's no profit in that.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

_MonSTeR_ said:


> If folks want the "Abasi Guitars" logo, that's one thing, if they want a handmade American custom shop guitar with the "Abasi Guitars" logo that's another. Personally if I'd put a deposit on a guitar from a USA luthier and was offered a guitar from a Korean production line, I'd probably want my money back pretty quickly. And there's no profit in that.



I prefer quality over quantity as well, but we'd be fools to believe that's the rule and not the exception.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

MaxOfMetal said:


> I prefer quality over quantity as well, but we'd be fools to believe that's the rule and not the exception.



No, you're right here of course, I just wonder whether these "space whale" guitars are the sorts of guitars that will sell to folks who'd be happy with a Korean production line guitar, or whether the target audience is going to be almost exclusively made up of members of the "boutique buyers club".

I don't have one of these on order, they're not my thing, but if I order a prime rib eye cooked by a Michelin star chef and someone offered me a burger from a chain restaurant, I'm going to go away disappointed. That's why I wonder if the "logo" in this case is a bigger sell than the instrument?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

_MonSTeR_ said:


> No, you're right here of course, I just wonder whether these "space whale" guitars are the sorts of guitars that will sell to folks who'd be happy with a Korean production line guitar, or whether the target audience is going to be almost exclusively made up of members of the "boutique buyers club".
> 
> I don't have one of these on order, they're not my thing, but if I order a prime rib eye cooked by a Michelin star chef and someone offered me a burger from a chain restaurant, I'm going to go away disappointed. That's why I wonder if the "logo" in this case is a bigger sell than the instrument?



The Korean and Indonesian Strandbergs seem to be doing well, and it's not like there aren't high end variants available. 

Not everyone has the choice between a $1k guitar and $3k guitar, and I'd wager that there are far more that fall into the former group. 

Lowering price and increasing availability widens the pool of potential customers, often significantly.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the irony that tosin left ibanez, who could've made indo versions of his sig easily, just to try and do it himself in a roundabout way. I didn't think the custom shop route was going to be super viable given their price point, but then again I thought the same thing about the strandberg custom shop


----------



## Bearitone

Slightly OT what are the cheapest guitars made in USA? Are there any sub $1k made entirely in the states?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

kindsage said:


> Slightly OT what are the cheapest guitars made in USA? Are there any sub $1k made entirely in the states?



Gibson and Fender both have a pretty solid offering of USA made stuff under $1k.

EDIT: Tried linking to Sweetwater, but their sorting sucks when linked on mobile.


----------



## odibrom

I think that if this project of Abasi Guitars fails to ever deliver, Tosin might have a hard time finding guitar endorsements...


----------



## SubzeroJake

Avedas said:


> RIP
> 
> I have a strong feeling if this model ever makes it to production it's going to be a QC mess like Strandberg.



It was a already a QC mess. Maybe we'll just get more volume of a QC mess?


----------



## Avedas

SubzeroJake said:


> It was a already a QC mess. Maybe we'll just get more volume of a QC mess?


It really wasn't though. There was the sketchy neck joint thing that wasn't cleaned up properly but that wasn't a huge deal. There were like 10 guitars ever completed and I've played 2 of them. One was flawless and the other had a very small amount of that neck joint finish residue (which is obviously unacceptable at that price point, but the guitar was still otherwise perfect).

I'd probably buy one if it were on the Solar/Chapman tier though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Avedas said:


> It really wasn't though. There was the sketchy neck joint thing that wasn't cleaned up properly but that wasn't a huge deal. There were like 10 guitars ever completed and I've played 2 of them. One was flawless and the other had a very small amount of that neck joint finish residue (which is obviously unacceptable at that price point, but the guitar was still otherwise perfect).
> 
> I'd probably buy one if it were on the Solar/Chapman tier though.



I think the problem was the constant moving of the goal posts over the whole issue.

From beginning to end it was:

"There's absolutely nothing wrong, everything is perfect."

"That stuff in the neck joint is just buffing compound. We were in a rush for NAMM."

"That's just a bad finish transition line."

"There were small finish issues."

"The customer forced us to let them out imperfect."

All along the way we were scolded and reminded that Abasi (Falbo) quality was beyond reproach and he totally knows what he's doing and...and...and...

As they say, everyone makes mistakes, it's how you handle it that defines the builder.


----------



## prlgmnr

That he would pop up almost immediately with an answer to all those niggles at that time (it was almost I'LL COME TO YOUR HOUSE RIGHT NOW AND SHOW YOU MY BUFFING COMPOUND levels), and is dead silent now, is odd.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

odibrom said:


> I think that if this project of Abasi Guitars fails to ever deliver, Tosin might have a hard time finding guitar endorsements...



He could always go to Kiesel lol


----------



## A-Branger

KnightBrolaire said:


> the irony that tosin left ibanez, who could've made indo versions of his sig easily, just to try and do it himself in a roundabout way. I didn't think the custom shop route was going to be super viable given their price point, but then again I thought the same thing about the strandberg custom shop



but the problem with Ibanez was that he would end up with one 4k$ model, and one plain black Indo version. Like his RG sig but in white. That was the reason why he wanted to do this guitar on his own so he could be able to choose waht wood/colors he wanted and give people more options, in regular scale, multiscale, 6, 7, 8, headless, tremolo, ect.... instead of just one 8 string model



MaxOfMetal said:


> Gibson and Fender both have a pretty solid offering of USA made stuff under $1k.
> 
> EDIT: Tried linking to Sweetwater, but their sorting sucks when linked on mobile.



but at the same time they are big old brands, so they already own and ahve the facilities to do so. A new guy like Tosin wont have the $. Question is if theres a factory that can make them in the US at that price point, just like WMI does on Asia?


Honestly I wouldnt mind a Korean made one, or Jap line. Gives people more option, and jsut because its "Insert asian country here" made, it doenst mean it cant be made with full-on features like he was planing to. It only helps to reduce cost so folks can buy them, good way to start the brand. Later down the road if the brand grows, he could look into a more "premium" option or a "custom made" stuff


----------



## StevenC

A-Branger said:


> Question is if theres a factory that can make them in the US at that price point, just like WMI does on Asia?


That wasn't the question...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

A-Branger said:


> but the problem with Ibanez was that he would end up with one 4k$ model, and one plain black Indo version. Like his RG sig but in white. That was the reason why he wanted to do this guitar on his own so he could be able to choose waht wood/colors he wanted and give people more options, in regular scale, multiscale, 6, 7, 8, headless, tremolo, ect.... instead of just one 8 string model



Money. Money is the reason. Control of the product is a factor, but secondary.



> but at the same time they are big old brands, so they already own and ahve the facilities to do so. A new guy like Tosin wont have the $. Question is if theres a factory that can make them in the US at that price point, just like WMI does on Asia?



For under $1k? With all the options? Not likely. But, there are builders within the United States that get really close to that price point. The prime example would be Kiesel, which start at around $1200. 

Remember, Gibson and Fender offer that pricing through dealers, not directly. When going direct, margins are much more positive and this you can lower the sale price without being in the red.


----------



## cardinal

Kiesel also doesn’t need a ton of inventory just sitting around. They seem to have around 50-60 guitars max just sitting in the show room but otherwise everything is made to order, which I assume is a huge help for their bottom line.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Kiesel also doesn’t need a ton of inventory just sitting around. They seem to have around 50-60 guitars max just sitting in the show room but otherwise everything is made to order, which I assume is a huge help for their bottom line.



You only really need inventory if you have dealers you need to stock or your turn around time is something outrageous, even then there is flexibility depending on demand. 

Kiesel is designed around a level of efficiency, from the specs they offer (minimal inlay, no binding), construction methods they use (they're moving towards mostly bolt-on guitars for a reason), and tooling (high level automation). Then they deal direct only.

Their in-stocks are a mix of projects/demos, common spec options, returns and showpieces.


----------



## I play music

kindsage said:


> Slightly OT what are the cheapest guitars made in USA? Are there any sub $1k made entirely in the states?


Gibson Firebird Zeros cost 350€ here and are made in the USA. 
In no way comparable to the Abasi obviously.


----------



## Bdtunn

Tosin posted a new guitar yesterday so something’s still brewing


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Bdtunn said:


> Tosin posted a new guitar yesterday so something’s still brewing



Pics? 

The one in the video posted yesterday just looks like the "raw" Ibanez proto from early last year.


----------



## Randy

Bdtunn said:


> Tosin posted a new guitar yesterday so something’s still brewing



Show us that damn headstock!


----------



## Bdtunn

MaxOfMetal said:


> Pics?
> 
> The one in the video posted yesterday just looks like the "raw" Ibanez proto from early last year.



He said in the text that it was a new guitar and tagged Abasi Guitars, but it wasn’t “branded” like the others


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Bdtunn said:


> He said in the text that it was a new guitar and tagged Abasi Guitars, but it wasn’t “branded” like the others



It's hard to really tell anything from that video, but it looks exactly like this one:







They very well could be different, but it brings up more questions than answers.


----------



## cardinal

That really is a slick looking guitar. Whatever is going on, it’ll be a shame if no one can get that thing made.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> That really is a slick looking guitar. Whatever is going on, it’ll be a shame if no one can get that thing made.



At this rate Skervesen and Ormsby will have copies of it out before Tosin does.


----------



## Randy

Wenge neck with a maple board works better than I'd have expected it to on paper.


----------



## canuck brian

Ibanez will most likely be unimpressed with this as it's a exact clone of his Ibanez down to the headstock.


----------



## StevenC

canuck brian said:


> Ibanez will most likely be unimpressed with this as it's a exact clone of his Ibanez down to the headstock.


The picture Max posted is an Ibanez.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> The picture Max posted is an Ibanez.



The post Brian made is a joke...hopefully.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> The post Brian made is a joke...hopefully.


I was hoping too, but... you never know.


----------



## jwade

Could Ibanez still release the model without Tosins involvement?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jwade said:


> Could Ibanez still release the model without Tosins involvement?



Depends on who actually owns the design, and what constitutes said design.

Per the Abasi Guitars website, Tosin says he owns the design. Is that true? I don't know.

There might be some gray area, unless Tosin took a drawing to Ibanez.


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> Depends on who actually owns the design, and what constitutes said design.
> 
> Per the Abasi Guitars website, Tosin says he owns the design. Is that true? I don't know.
> 
> There might be some gray area, unless Tosin took a drawing to Ibanez.



Crossposting from an old post on MG.org:



Soopahmahn;1000567 said:


> It looks like something Darren might have sketched, scrapped, and then someone stole it and slapped that shit 8-string Ibby headstock onto it.





darren;1000680 said:


> Heheh… I _was_ actually involved, but only in a relatively minor capacity.
> 
> Sometime in early 2014, i met up with Tosin at a local clinic, and we went out for dinner afterwards with Chris from L&M and the regional Ibanez rep. We got to chatting, and Tosin mentioned he had a wild idea for his next signature model, showed me a sketch, and asked if i could help with it. I graciously accepted. I translated his rough sketch into a more proportional design, worked out how the bevel would work, trying not to add too much of "me" into the design so it would remain as Tosin's idea and not an Ibanecibel.
> 
> I drew up the CAD drawings, which were sent to Ibanez. About a year later (this past spring) i saw pics of the first prototypes. Tosin is REALLY happy with it, and feels the ergonomics of it were perfect for how he plays right off the bat, which is really cool. I believe it's a 25.5" to 27" fan.
> 
> I don't think i've seen the back of it yet, but i'm really liking the matte black face, gloss black bevels and natural ash back.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Ah yes, Darren Wilson, the bastion of honestly and humility. 

Doesn't really clear anything up, as we don't know what Tosin's contract with Ibanez said about ownership of designs while endorsed.

While very different, anything I design, even if the company I work for says I wholly designed it, belongs to them, and not me, and I signed something to that effect.

All that said, I still think Tosin owns the design or else we would have seen something in the last year plus.


----------



## jwade

Ah that answered that, then. I wondered if maybe they’d hit a deal where they could make their own and he could have whoever he wants build for the Abasi branded ones.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jwade said:


> Ah that answered that, then. I wondered if maybe they’d hit a deal where they could make their own and he could have whoever he wants build for the Abasi branded ones.



That isn't outside of possibilities, Tosin could license the design to whomever.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Has anyone else noticed that 5 of the first 10, the infamous Japanese Rushed batch, are back for sale?

https://reverb.com/item/13089277-abasi-guitars-6-multi-scale-fanned-fret-burl-maplefb-natural-gloss
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=163246419989
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=163246419659
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=163246420784
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=223163143328

Specs are all different, even though there are multiple listings for a few of them.

EDIT: And another two:
https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop4960/DS04819459/
https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop2/DS04606963/


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Maybe he's trying to make the few he released harder to get thus increasing the price lol


----------



## MaxOfMetal

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Maybe he's trying to make the few he released harder to get thus increasing the price lol



Dem low serial numbas.


----------



## Albake21

MaxOfMetal said:


> Has anyone else noticed that 5 of the first 10, the infamous Japanese Rushed batch, are back for sale?
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/13089277-abasi-guitars-6-multi-scale-fanned-fret-burl-maplefb-natural-gloss
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=163246419989
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=163246419659
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=163246420784
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=223163143328
> 
> Specs are all different, even though there are multiple listings for a few of them.


Oooph that price...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Interestingly enough, one of the ones for sale is the one which helped start this shit show with the dicked up finish that supposedly went to a happy customer.


----------



## jephjacques

I could be wrong but that looks like it's just one of those "I live in japan and if you buy this I'll go to Ikebe to buy it and take a cut of the ebay price" kind of semi-scammy deals. That first 6 is definitely the one I played in-store in Tokyo.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> I could be wrong but that looks like it's just one of those "I live in japan and if you buy this I'll go to Ikebe to buy it and take a cut of the ebay price" kind of semi-scammy deals. That first 6 is definitely the one I played in-store in Tokyo.



I don't doubt that's what's going on. I was under the impression, from a few posters in here, that they sold out, as justification for any issues they might have. The old "If they're so bad, then why did they sell."


----------



## jephjacques

I was told that a retailer had put in a couple big orders for guitars, but I only know of one that actually *sold* in Japan.


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> All that said, I still think Tosin owns the design or else we would have seen something in the last year plus.



Ton of scenarios out there, for sure. 

I always thought it was a little weird Ibanez would prototype something for him and then let him take essentially the same design and sell it as himself, but then you gotta take into account that the prototypes were built by LACS (regardless of who bankrolls the place), and the likelihood he (and maybe Frank as well) has a personal relationship with the shop itself. So it's not outside the realm of possibility there was an agreement the 'Abasi' shape was never actually going to market as an Ibanez from the begging.

I personally think it probably doesn't make a return as an Ibanez guitar, but I wouldn't be surprised if they rip it off. The EBMM Axis and the Peavey HP2 come to mind.


----------



## jephjacques

I'm 99.9% sure it's not going back to Ibanez.


----------



## Albake21

Well we know for sure one sold to a poster here. He posted a picture of him with it several pages back.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> I was told that a retailer had put in a couple big orders for guitars, but I only know of one that actually *sold* in Japan.



I just remember Frank saying that the guitar that helped start this mess had sold, in a pseudo-justification of the issues, when it's still posted somewhere for sale.



frank falbo said:


> We are not setting that price, Japan is, and the guitars are selling.
> 
> So let me be clear: I take all the bullets and all the responsibility for the things that are within my control. Japan was very eager to get these first guitars, to the point of sending someone over to approve and hand carry them back. It’s true the guitar in question has already sold. So in person, obviously these things that you’re seeing in close-up photos were not a deterrent.





frank falbo said:


> As for the guitar that started this drama, it was already sold a few days ago. So someone looked at it, in person, played it, and decided it was worth what they paid in every area that was important to them.


----------



## Albake21

One thing I wanted to note. Frank has still been active lately on his Falbo Guitars Instagram. 

I just wish Tosin would finally come forward and say something. This has been going on long enough.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Albake21 said:


> One thing I wanted to note. Frank has still been active lately on his Falbo Guitars Instagram.
> 
> I just wish Tosin would finally come forward and say something. This has been going on long enough.



Frank was removed from the Abasi Guitars website last week.

I think it's safe to say he's no longer involved in the brand.


----------



## Cheap

Really not a fan of not knowing, but I suppose-with the exception of those who put money down-we're not really owed much of an explanation at this point. 

Also super not a fan of how much I still love this design (especially 6-string straight scale) and how crazy it felt to play at NAMM earlier this year. I'd definitely be interested in seeing it hit the market at some point, but am bummed by the possibility of Frank's lack of involvement


----------



## A-Branger

Maybe Frank is out for whatever reason might be, and Tosin is just still dealing with where production of the guitars would be. He might just be waiting to get prototypes from couple of factories so he can make a final choice.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

A-Branger said:


> Maybe Frank is out for whatever reason might be, and Tosin is just still dealing with where production of the guitars would be. He might just be waiting to get prototypes from couple of factories so he can make a final choice.



That's kind of the gist of it. They're basically back to square one.


----------



## Avedas

MaxOfMetal said:


> Has anyone else noticed that 5 of the first 10, the infamous Japanese Rushed batch, are back for sale?
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/13089277-abasi-guitars-6-multi-scale-fanned-fret-burl-maplefb-natural-gloss
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=163246419989
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=163246419659
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=163246420784
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=223163143328
> 
> Specs are all different, even though there are multiple listings for a few of them.
> 
> EDIT: And another two:
> https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop4960/DS04819459/
> https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop2/DS04606963/


They're all listed as brand new. Well this is interesting.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Mark my words. He will go through Kiesel and you will see a new Tosin Abasi Signature starting 2019. @Hollowway knows what I am talking about eh?


----------



## Albake21

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Mark my words. He will go through Kiesel and you will see a new Tosin Abasi Signature starting 2019. @Hollowway knows what I am talking about eh?


There's no way in hell that would happen... BUT, if it did, I'd order immediately!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Albake21 said:


> There's no way in hell that would happen... BUT, if it did, I'd order immediately!


It is a possibility. It'd be a smart move on kiesel and tosin. Imagine instruments that could be produced in larger quantities with easier availability and cheaper prices.


----------



## LordCashew

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> It is a possibility. It'd be a smart move on kiesel and tosin. Imagine instruments that could be produced in larger quantities with easier availability and cheaper prices.



...and shorter lead times. Heck, maybe even more consistent builds. I know Kiesel's QC isn't perfect but what I've seen in this thread doesn't really seem better, especially at the price point. Kind of makes sense, especially with their fanbases/clientele already overlapping quite a bit.

But I wouldn't go near one without an ironclad return policy...


----------



## Veldar

This is the problem with the current custom guitar market, everyone and their dad is a builder and everyone is a critique.

Tosin will probably go the route of ola and just have an import line of guitars, would make him a lot more bank and be less of a hassle.


----------



## spudmunkey

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Mark my words. He will go through Kiesel and you will see a new Tosin Abasi Signature starting 2019. @Hollowway knows what I am talking about eh?



He does have (and uses regularly) a NS1 (not sure if it's Carvin or Kiesel-branded) nylon-string model.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

spudmunkey said:


> He does have (and uses regularly) a NS1 (not sure if it's Carvin or Kiesel-branded) nylon-string model.


A fact that Jeff himself has bragged about. I am telling ya. If it happens,I might order one.

I'd prefer that over an overpriced MIK import


----------



## StevenC

I own a lot of Tosin and Animals as Leaders tat (pickups, picks, that onomatopoeia shirt, AAL gym bag, The Joy of Motion), but no way am I buying a Kiesel.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

They're not going to be made by Kiesel. 

They'd have to be done from the ground up (not going to happen), and use a non-Kiesel owned design (also not going to happen). 

My money is still on a Far East OEM. 

Would be cool to see them kept in North America, but I'm not sure how feasible that is.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

That new Abasi on Tosin's IG could be an old guitar that was only finished now. He should really post an update. I can't see starting up another hi-end production line working out again after everyone's builds got cancelled and refunded. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> Has anyone else noticed that 5 of the first 10, the infamous Japanese Rushed batch, are back for sale?



Thats odd. I heard most of those sold yet they are all back on the market now.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> I can't see starting up another hi-end production line working out again after everyone's builds got cancelled and refunded.



Never underestimate the power of name recognition and a cool design. 

Folks still ask Darren (Decibel) and BRJ to build guitars and they're known scammers. 



> Thats odd. I heard most of those sold yet they are all back on the market now.



It's starting to look like the whole "they're selling" line was bullshit, as they're all listed as being "new". The two not listed are a 6 string owned by a member here and a Floyd 8 that looks to have sold. 

Contrary to what was said, it looks like the condition (poor finish) and price (nearly $7k) isn't making them fly off the shelf.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

MaxOfMetal said:


> Never underestimate the power of name recognition and a cool design.



Ha well that is how they got so many orders to begin with. I just can't see it happening again but who knows! 

A guy messaged me about 3 years ago saying he was putting down a BRJ custom order through a dealer. I pointed him towards this thread and explained his dealer was lying but he still went ahead with it saying he'd get his guitar. Crazy! 



MaxOfMetal said:


> It's starting to look like the whole "they're selling" line was bullshit, as they're all listed as being "new". The two not listed are a 6 string owned by a member here and a Floyd 8 that looks to have sold.
> 
> Contrary to what was said, it looks like the condition (poor finish) and price (nearly $7k) isn't making them fly off the shelf.



Unless the one that caused the drama was returned then they didn't sell. What was the point of rushing them so they could sit months in a shop unsold. I still can't comprehend that one.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> What was the point of rushing them so they could sit months in a shop unsold. I still can't comprehend that one.



Money. The store was the customer.

The weird part was that they didn't pump the heck out of them online. They made them, sent them off, and that was the last we heard. You'd think they'd promote/advertise the hell out of them, complete with Tosin showing them off. 

The only thing I could remotely think of, is they saw the reaction they had here, namely the response to the flaws and pricing and decided to keep it low key. 

Though who knows what the relationship between Falbo and Abasi was like at that point.


----------



## Avedas

The quality issues and that fact that the first (which turned out to be only) available guitars were over 5000 USD... yeah not the best first impressions.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Funniest is Tosin saying he wanted to make it more accessible that a guitar shouldn't cost the same as a cheap used car, and yet here they are 5K + in pricing.

Would just love to know the story here, even if there's no new builder in place at least explain what happened with the original attempt, and then let people know what the next step is.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Dineley said:


> Funniest is Tosin saying he wanted to make it more accessible that a guitar shouldn't cost the same as a cheap used car, and yet here they are 5K + in pricing.
> 
> Would just love to know the story here, even if there's no new builder in place at least explain what happened with the original attempt, and then let people know what the next step is.



To be fair, the ones ordered domestically/directly were <$4k, which puts them inline with a lot of builders.

They did say they'd definitely be "cheaper than the Ibanez TAM", but obviously not by much.


----------



## jephjacques

I'm 99.9% sure they won't be built by Kiesel and I'm 100% sure we'll never know the full story on what went down. If things DID go bad behind the scenes, my guess is they'll have a non-disparagement agreement in place to prevent shit from getting ugly in public.

As for pricing, my quote was $3400 for a non-standard build, which I think is pretty reasonable for what I was hoping to get. The crazy prices you're seeing on the Japanese sites is the store marking them up, not the MAP.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> They're not going to be made by Kiesel.
> 
> [...] and use a non-Kiesel owned design (also not going to happen).



I also don't think it's going to happen, but I wonder if the Sekou Bunch signature bass was SB's design? When he left, the model disappeared. That could have made them gun shy to do that again. The Bromberg bass is a slightly "massaged" version of the basic bass design that Brian Bromberg has had made by 3-4 other companies, and thought that was interesting when it was released by Carvin (at the time). I would have mentioned the Becker models like the Numbers and the Perpetual Burn models since they are based on other makers' guitars, but they seem to have a special relationship with Jason, so the situations can't really be compared.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> I also don't think it's going to happen, but I wonder if the Sekou Bunch signature bass was SB's design? When he left, the model disappeared. That could have made them gun shy to do that again. The Bromberg bass is a slightly "massaged" version of the basic bass design that Brian Bromberg has had made by 3-4 other companies, and thought that was interesting when it was released by Carvin (at the time). I would have mentioned the Becker models like the Numbers and the Perpetual Burn models since they are based on other makers' guitars, but they seem to have a special relationship with Jason, so the situations can't really be compared.



OT: I really miss that SB bass. Was totally the coolest bass they've put out. It was classic but still interesting. 

I ordered the 5-string, but it arrived damaged, sent it back and decided to get an LBX6 instead...like an idiot.


----------



## A-Branger

MaxOfMetal said:


> Though who knows what the relationship between Falbo and Abasi was like at that point.



*fully speculation mode here:*.... maybe it was Tosin idea to sell them in that condition?.... like Falbo was like "nope, they arent ready yet", and Tosin was like "they look good, client wants them now so I told him yes"...... like a kid exited to sell his first product. Its his brand so he has final word. Obiusly Falbo is not gonna trow him under the bus in this tread or outside, and reasons like that might be the why he might have left the project?, as it was ruining his name as a builder in the process?, like he still got his own stuff and doesnt wants to get affected by Abasi Guitar backlash?



Avedas said:


> The quality issues and that fact that the first (which turned out to be only) available guitars were over 5000 USD... yeah not the best first impressions.



Japan import taxes bro, and store markups. Reason why there are brands building stuff in Japan for Japan only markets, because its cheapper


----------



## narad

A-Branger said:


> *fully speculation mode here:*.... maybe it was Tosin idea to sell them in that condition?.... like Falbo was like "nope, they arent ready yet", and Tosin was like "they look good, client wants them now so I told him yes"...... like a kid exited to sell his first product. Its his brand so he has final word. Obiusly Falbo is not gonna trow him under the bus in this tread or outside, and reasons like that might be the why he might have left the project?, as it was ruining his name as a builder in the process?, like he still got his own stuff and doesnt wants to get affected by Abasi Guitar backlash?



I heard it was a love triangle situation and eventually the unrequited feelings became too much. I don't want to get too much into the details, but if you've been paying attention to their instagram, I think you can probably figure it out.



A-Branger said:


> Japan import taxes bro, and store markups. Reason why there are brands building stuff in Japan for Japan only markets, because its cheapper



It's like 100% dealer markup. It's not any different from the US really -- if the first batch hits stores and demand is high, it's going to be priced a bit high. If Japan import taxes played any role, you wouldn't see J-bodens and J-Tylers trying to cut into what used to be Sweden-Boden and USA-Tyler price points.


----------



## Albake21

narad said:


> I heard it was a love triangle situation and eventually the unrequited feelings became too much. I don't want to get too much into the details, but if you've been paying attention to their instagram, I think you can probably figure it out.
> 
> 
> 
> It's like 100% dealer markup. It's not any different from the US really -- if the first batch hits stores and demand is high, it's going to be priced a bit high. If Japan import taxes played any role, you wouldn't see J-bodens and J-Tylers trying to cut into what used to be Sweden-Boden and USA-Tyler price points.


Paying attention to whose instagram? Both Tosin's and Falbo Guitars looks pretty normal to me.


----------



## Randy

I'll assume that was sarcasm


----------



## A-Branger

narad said:


> It's like 100% dealer markup. It's not any different from the US really -- if the first batch hits stores and demand is high, it's going to be priced a bit high. If Japan import taxes played any role, you wouldn't see J-bodens and J-Tylers trying to cut into what used to be Sweden-Boden and USA-Tyler price points.



aaahhh co cool, I always were under the impression that Japan had huge import taxes, reason why guitars sold there (made in another country) were so expensive


----------



## Avedas

A-Branger said:


> aaahhh co cool, I always were under the impression that Japan had huge import taxes, reason why guitars sold there (made in another country) were so expensive


If you look at regular old import guitars like MII stuff or Fender Player etc. the prices are basically on par with what you'd pay in America. As narad said, the high end US guitars (and some others like Mayones) get quite the dealer markup.


----------



## Veldar

A-Branger said:


> *fully speculation mode here:*.... maybe it was Tosin idea to sell them in that condition?.... like Falbo was like "nope, they arent ready yet", and Tosin was like "they look good, client wants them now so I told him yes"...... like a kid exited to sell his first product. Its his brand so he has final word. Obiusly Falbo is not gonna trow him under the bus in this tread or outside, and reasons like that might be the why he might have left the project?, as it was ruining his name as a builder in the process?, like he still got his own stuff and doesnt wants to get affected by Abasi Guitar backlash?
> 
> 
> 
> Japan import taxes bro, and store markups. Reason why there are brands building stuff in Japan for Japan only markets, because its cheapper



Large is real


----------



## Bearitone

Maybe startups should stop taking preorders and instead just sell what they have in stock. It seems like tons of startup guitar companies go down because they take custom and semi custom orders before they’re even established.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

kindsage said:


> Maybe startups should stop taking preorders and instead just sell what they have in stock. It seems like tons of startup guitar companies go down because they take custom and semi custom orders before they’re even established.



Eh, in most cases yes, but that doesn't seem to be the problem here.

I think the real takeaway here is to have a solid plan from the get go, where everyone knows what their responsibilities are, and is held accountable and evolves organically.

Abasi Guitars seemed to of burst onto the scene half cocked (only two guitars ready for NAMM, that were rushed to completion), offered too much to too many people, didn't have focus (everything goes, and a random Tele), didn't keep the standards up, delivered flawed products, shed blame wherever possible and went dark.

To top it all off, they didn't advertise or promote outside mild Instagram posts and didn't manage to sell what they actually did build.

Like I said before, that design is cursed. 

But all hope is not lost. If Strandberg can recover from doing this twice (and counting), I'm sure they'll find their way sooner or later.


----------



## cardinal

Yeah, seems like they can just reboot and recover. The design looks good. Even the builds generally looked ok, they just flubbed on some of the details. Of course that’s where the devil is, but that just takes some TLC to iron out


----------



## diagrammatiks

It’s just the headstock that’s cursed imo.


----------



## A-Branger

diagrammatiks said:


> It’s just the headstock that’s cursed imo.


its the bevel, I blame the bevel

not the main one, but the little bevel in the lower horn


----------



## jwade




----------



## Bdtunn

http://geargods.net/news/tosin-abasi-pathos-pedal-sweetwater/

Sooooo pedals now


----------



## Albake21

Bdtunn said:


> http://geargods.net/news/tosin-abasi-pathos-pedal-sweetwater/
> 
> Sooooo pedals now


Yup just saw this yesterday...... what the hell is going on here?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Bdtunn said:


> http://geargods.net/news/tosin-abasi-pathos-pedal-sweetwater/
> 
> Sooooo pedals now





Albake21 said:


> Yup just saw this yesterday...... what the hell is going on here?



It looks like it's just a signature Wampler pedal. 

http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/abasi-pathos-wampler-pedal.332761/unread

I wonder if these were supposed to be announced/released when the guitars were supposed to ship.

Either way, absolutely nothing from Abasi Guitars or Tosin himself. Seems like a recurring theme...


----------



## StevenC

Updated their facebook page with new pictures and a video for the pedal.


----------



## Albake21

StevenC said:


> Updated their facebook page with new pictures and a video for the pedal.


Also if I'm not mistaken, a name change to "Abasi Concepts"


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> Updated their facebook page with new pictures and a video for the pedal.



Yeah, less than 20 minutes ago. 

To be fair though, I only checked their website and IGs. 



Albake21 said:


> Also if I'm not mistaken, a name change to "Abasi Concepts"



The website always said "Abasi Concepts" at the bottom. Perhaps their out of the guitar game for the time being?


----------



## Bdtunn

Albake21 said:


> Also if I'm not mistaken, a name change to "Abasi Concepts"



I just got a Facebook notification that Abasi Guitars changed its name to abasi concepts. Ohhh how the plot thickens


----------



## KnightBrolaire

can't wait for more wampler pedals to get tosin's name slapped on em.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

"Oh hey, I'll log in and post this video and guess I'll change the page name too."


----------



## jwade

That song is badass.

Also, what are those two seven string non-abasi branded guitars sitting immediately behind the abasi 8 with the fancy top?


----------



## Avedas

Well that's disappointing lol


----------



## Dayn

The pedal demo was pretty neat. All these specialist pedals and gear coming out is really interesting and is making me rethink modelers, but then the cost comes up...

I think I'll stay content with being an observer and enjoy it all vicariously.


----------



## Avedas

Dayn said:


> The pedal demo was pretty neat. All these specialist pedals and gear coming out is really interesting and is making me rethink modelers, but then the cost comes up...
> 
> I think I'll stay content with being an observer and enjoy it all vicariously.


Gotta supplement income somehow. I'm not particularly convinced that a lot of the artist namesake gear coming out lately is really all that special. This is his third(?) OD pedal to come out since like 2016 or something.


----------



## BrailleDecibel

The new thread title just about made me spit out my Mountain Dew Game Fuel.


----------



## prlgmnr

Right now it's only a notion, but I think I can get money to make it into a concept, and later turn it into an idea.


----------



## Webmaestro

EDIT: nevermind, I misread


----------



## GuitarBizarre

I remember thinking back when he was swapping pickup companies every week, that eventually Tosin was going to wear out his welcome with both his own fans and anyone who might be willing to endorse him.

I have to say it came sooner than I expected. Can we relegate him into the shill bin now, sat next to Dave Mustaine?


----------



## Seabeast2000

GuitarBizarre said:


> I remember thinking back when he was swapping pickup companies every week, that eventually Tosin was going to wear out his welcome with both his own fans and anyone who might be willing to endorse him.
> 
> I have to say it came sooner than I expected. Can we relegate him into the shill bin now, sat next to Dave Mustaine?


Not done yet until Tosin Abasi's I Love This Barre and Grill chain of venues opens across the states.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

GuitarBizarre said:


> I remember thinking back when he was swapping pickup companies every week, that eventually Tosin was going to wear out his welcome with both his own fans and anyone who might be willing to endorse him.
> 
> I have to say it came sooner than I expected. Can we relegate him into the shill bin now, sat next to Dave Mustaine?



I honestly don't think we're at that point yet. Not at all. 

I think we're just witnessing someone learning how hard it is to get a brand going in real time. It's a bear. 

But, I think things are turning out about as well as they can. No one seems to be out money, there's no public mud slinging, and they now seem like they might be shifting focus, which isn't a bad thing. 

Folks just got really excited for all of this, so it's something of a bummer that it's not turned out.

Tosin is still an incredible musician with a huge following.


----------



## BrailleDecibel

The906 said:


> Not done yet until Tosin Abasi's I Love This Barre and Grill chain of venues opens across the states.


Hopefully this venture does well for him, as I can't imagine "Abasi's Wave of Babies Contraceptives" being much of a fallback at this point.


----------



## Jonathan20022

GuitarBizarre said:


> I remember thinking back when he was swapping pickup companies every week, that eventually Tosin was going to wear out his welcome with both his own fans and anyone who might be willing to endorse him.
> 
> I have to say it came sooner than I expected. Can we relegate him into the shill bin now, sat next to Dave Mustaine?



You have to realize how much you're exaggerating right? He was completely unsponsored then got picked up by EMG, which pretty much dominated 8 string ERG pickups in the time frame. Then he got the chance to design his signature guitar which came along with a move to Dimazrio. But the overall transition was EMG 2009 -> Dimarzio 2013 -> Seymour Duncan 2015 -> Fishman 2017.

Don't see why that's a bad thing, isn't the point of being a gear head and in this community that you're always semi-tone chasing unless you're satisfied with your rig atm.

You're in a community where musicians are completely broke, and they're playing these niche sects of metal. The smart ones end up diversifying and creating other sources of income to sustain themselves/become successful. So of course they're going to promote their products and businesses, it's not being a shill. Being a shill is when that business pays other people to go and promote for them. Don't see too much of Tosin posting in here nowadays so that idea's moot.


----------



## jephjacques

I think doing pedals is a brilliant business move- it's something most people can afford, they're way easier to manufacture/ship/fix if necessary, and I'm guessing the profit margins are higher than on a boutique guitar. Bonus points if they actually sound good!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> I think doing pedals is a brilliant business move- it's something most people can afford, they're way easier to manufacture/ship/fix if necessary, and I'm guessing the profit margins are higher than on a boutique guitar. Bonus points if they actually sound good!



This. 

They probably should have started small with something like this.


----------



## Metropolis

"These wonky ass proggy headless guitars targeted for really small market won't be selling because our business model sucks and they cost about five grand, so let's try to sell these 250 dollar distortion pedals instead"


----------



## KnightBrolaire

*insert word play based off of AAL song titles here*
can't wait for the tempting time delay pedal to come out next


----------



## lurè

I think he will be back to guitar asap: it's what he really wants.
He has a guitar he designed and he wants to make a production model based in It.
If none of the major brands is going to answer the call, he's still gonna try for a Abasi Guitar Line.

Imho pedals are just a temporary thing , he'll jump on the custom guitar train when he'll have the right opportunity.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lurè said:


> I think he will be back to guitar asap: it's what he really wants.
> He has a guitar he designed and he wants to make a production model based in It.
> If none of the major brands is going to answer the call, he's still gonna try for a Abasi Guitar Line.
> 
> Imho pedals are just a temporary thing , he'll jump on the custom guitar train when he'll have the right opportunity.



Literally everything points counter to what you're saying. 

But sure. 

Conspiracy Theory: this is all a ruse and Abasi Guitars is going to fucking blow the fuck out of Winter NAMM 2019.


----------



## Randy

Bdtunn said:


> http://geargods.net/news/tosin-abasi-pathos-pedal-sweetwater/
> 
> Sooooo pedals now



Maple with a purpleheart board is hot af


----------



## lurè

MaxOfMetal said:


> Literally everything points counter to what you're saying.
> 
> But sure.
> 
> Conspiracy Theory: this is all a ruse and Abasi Guitars is going to fucking blow the fuck out of Winter NAMM 2019.



For me what is trying to achieve with this Abasi Concepts thing is: " I'm Tosin Abasi. I design things. Do you want to make the the products I design and think about production and distribution?"

He's started with something simple like a pedal with Wampler but It doesn't mean he won't try again with guitars if he finds a brand that will cover production and distribution.


----------



## Jonathan20022

One things for sure, this is a sure fire way to make the people who ended up with those early serial numbers feel special


----------



## frank falbo

Official statement is as follows:
_
Tosin Abasi and Abasi Concepts, LLC, and Frank Falbo and Falbo Designs are no longer affiliated with each other in any way. We have both elected to move on and pursue our own endeavors._


----------



## BrailleDecibel

What's the over/under on Tosin's re-branded...ummm, brand staying afloat? Will he do well for himself, or will FFDP be up a new guitarist and renamed to Five Finger Djent Thump by next year?


----------



## GunpointMetal

BrailleDecibel said:


> What's the over/under on Tosin's re-branded...ummm, brand staying afloat? Will he do well for himself, or will FFDP be up a new guitarist and renamed to Five Finger Djent Thump by next year?


I feel like for all his skill there's no way that would even be listenable!
I'm sure as long as nobody actually got taken for any money he'll do alright. I think maybe he should look at how Solar guitars is going and maybe work towards making (relatively) affordable production models instead of $2K plus instruments.


----------



## frank falbo

BrailleDecibel said:


> What's the over/under on Tosin's re-branded...ummm, brand staying afloat?


I’d say pretty good. He’s at the top of his game at the moment, I wish them well.


----------



## spudmunkey

frank falbo said:


> Official statement is as follows:
> _
> Tosin Abasi and Abasi Concepts, LLC, and Frank Falbo and Falbo Designs are no longer affiliated with each other in any way. We have both elected to move on and pursue our own endeavors._



We appreciate your comment.


----------



## A-Branger

lurè said:


> I think he will be back to guitar asap: it's what he really wants.
> He has a guitar he designed and he wants to make a production model based in It.
> If none of the major brands is going to answer the call, he's still gonna try for a Abasi Guitar Line.
> 
> Imho pedals are just a temporary thing , he'll jump on the custom guitar train when he'll have the right opportunity.





GunpointMetal said:


> I think maybe he should look at how Solar guitars is going and maybe work towards making (relatively) affordable production models instead of $2K plus instruments.




I recon thats what hes doing, but its not as easy to start up a line even with manufactering in asia. He might be ordering prototypes from a few factories to test quality, then pick one, test some more, make adjustments ect till hes hapy. And even if hes happy there still months of waiting time before he gets to have a build spot in the factory.

Reason why Solar hapened so "fast" is because you never knew about the months (or maybe year) of product testing and order times. Ola only advertises the guitars once they are in the building stage which by that oint theres a couple of months before theya re ready adn shipped to their warehouse ready to ship to you. But at this moment Ola has (probably) 2/3 runs of guitars already pre-ordered, you just dont know about it


The change name in company to Abasi Concepts, is so he can sell pedal and other stuff too. "Abasi Guitars" kinda puts you in a box to guitars only.... nothing worng and I recong he coul still sell pedals under that name, but thats what he choose to do. Who knows, maybe next product would be a plugin. But I recon guitars would still happen


----------



## Sogradde

A-Branger said:


> Reason why Solar hapened so "fast" is because you never knew about the months (or maybe year) of product testing and order times. Ola only advertises the guitars once they are in the building stage which by that oint theres a couple of months before theya re ready adn shipped to their warehouse ready to ship to you. But at this moment Ola has (probably) 2/3 runs of guitars already pre-ordered, you just dont know about it


Say what you want about Ola but he's pretty smart. He understands that hype is a very dangerous game.


----------



## narad

Sogradde said:


> Say what you want about Ola but he's pretty smart. He understands that hype is a very dangerous game.



But we say good things about Ola...


----------



## Vyn

Sogradde said:


> Say what you want about Ola but he's pretty smart. He understands that hype is a very dangerous game.



Hype is a very dangerous game however if you can deliver on the hype it's a lucrative one. And it's fair to say Solar guitars has delivered.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Back on topic fellas.


----------



## jco5055

What if Tosin tried working out some kind of sig model with Strandberg? They seem to be about the only Ergo company with consistent output to an extent...or even Kiesel lol


----------



## musicaldeath

Well, if you go to the main website, under the "BUY ONLINE" button for the Pathos, it says "Stay tuned for Abasi Guitars 2019". Speculation at this point, but seems pretty obvious he isn't out of the guitar game. Just getting the back end sorted before moving forward with it. It will be interesting to watch.

I definitely made the right call earlier in this thread to avoid ordering one, contrary to Frank and the low serial numbers


----------



## Albake21

musicaldeath said:


> Well, if you go to the main website, under the "BUY ONLINE" button for the Pathos, it says "Stay tuned for Abasi Guitars 2019". Speculation at this point, but seems pretty obvious he isn't out of the guitar game. Just getting the back end sorted before moving forward with it. It will be interesting to watch.
> 
> I definitely made the right call earlier in this thread to avoid ordering one, contrary to Frank and the low serial numbers


He's definitely not. I commented on the recent post on the Abasi Concepts Instagram page asking what was going on with guitars? Saying it seems like production has stopped. I actually got a reply saying, stay tuned.


----------



## guitaardvark

Avedas said:


> Gotta supplement income somehow. I'm not particularly convinced that a lot of the artist namesake gear coming out lately is really all that special. This is his third(?) OD pedal to come out since like 2016 or something.


Yeah, I don't think anyone remembers Tosin's Protone overdrive (or Misha's, or Mark's delay). The only signature pedal to really catch on as of recent would be the Precision Drive, and I doubt that the Pathos will do as well.


----------



## GunpointMetal

guitaardvark said:


> Yeah, I don't think anyone remembers Tosin's Protone overdrive (or Misha's, or Mark's delay). The only signature pedal to really catch on as of recent would be the Precision Drive, and I doubt that the Pathos will do as well.


Most people forgot about those Protones when the gut shots started coming out.
Yikes.


----------



## Matt08642

guitaardvark said:


> Yeah, I don't think anyone remembers Tosin's Protone overdrive (or Misha's, or Mark's delay). The only signature pedal to really catch on as of recent would be the Precision Drive, and I doubt that the Pathos will do as well.



Oh no, I remember when they were all hocking those pieces of shit


----------



## LeviathanKiller

guitaardvark said:


> Yeah, I don't think anyone remembers Tosin's Protone overdrive (or Misha's, or Mark's delay). The only signature pedal to really catch on as of recent would be the Precision Drive, and I doubt that the Pathos will do as well.



The Protones caught on didn't they?

...caught on fire...


----------



## Casper777

Or maybe the pedal thing is only there to bring some cash for the guitar refunds to clients that will never get one?


----------



## Andromalia

Well to be honest I thought it sounded good, but given what happened before I'd want to see an inside shot if I was in the market. I'm not paying premium prices for entry level chinese components.

And that edited thread title XD


----------



## xwmucradiox

Andromalia said:


> Well to be honest I thought it sounded good, but given what happened before I'd want to see an inside shot if I was in the market. I'm not paying premium prices for entry level chinese components.
> 
> And that edited thread title XD



Tell me more about these 'entry-level Chinese components' that are so bad. I'm worried that they are the same components that are in every other electronic device on the market and that they say nothing about the quality of gear otherwise and I just can't abide that.


----------



## GunpointMetal

xwmucradiox said:


> Tell me more about these 'entry-level Chinese components' that are so bad. I'm worried that they are the same components that are in every other electronic device on the market and that they say nothing about the quality of gear otherwise and I just can't abide that.


Find some gut shots of the Protone pedals, look at what they were charging, then compare them to other "handmade/boutique" pedals internals. Most of the Protone pedals were using literally the cheapest components available, apparently not even maintaining consistency throughout a pedal run. Most boutique builders use components that are little pricier, but are more consistent (that's why they're pricier). That's not to say cheap chinese components can't sound good, but that's not what you're paying for when you buy a "boutique" pedal.


----------



## xwmucradiox

GunpointMetal said:


> Find some gut shots of the Protone pedals, look at what they were charging, then compare them to other "handmade/boutique" pedals internals. Most of the Protone pedals were using literally the cheapest components available, apparently not even maintaining consistency throughout a pedal run. Most boutique builders use components that are little pricier, but are more consistent (that's why they're pricier). That's not to say cheap chinese components can't sound good, but that's not what you're paying for when you buy a "boutique" pedal.



You may be confusing construction quality with component quality. While there is quite a variety of passive components on the market, guitar effects manufacturers using through-hole components are almost universally using the same Xicon resistors that cost fractions of a cent in production quantities and similarly inexpensive capacitors. There are premium components on the market but rarely do companies use them because they don't offer a real advantage. Marketing materials may espouse that a company uses 'premium' components but if you're familiar with the component parts on the market its rare to see that claim live up to what it intends.

The bottom line is that the vast majority of passive components in music gear are inexpensive and made in China because its not economically feasible to make resistors and capacitors in <insert country of choice where origin implies better quality> any more and hasn't been for a few decades. Further, in cases where a company is using an exotic resistor or cap to imply quality, the difference is overwhelmingly cosmetic as low voltage devices don't often take advantage of features offered by higher performance passives.

Edit - This is a Protone pedal and all of these components are high quality and similar to what would be used in any other device. If anything the tantalum and box film caps are a step up from the cheapest available components and the 1/8 watt resistors are perfectly fine quality. The 9mm pots in this picture are more expensive than a similar spec Alpha pot which is the standard for most pedal builders.


----------



## GunpointMetal

No image.


----------



## xwmucradiox

Shows up for me. Here's the link:

http://i.imgur.com/RsmNjVD.jpg


----------



## GunpointMetal

Must be blocked at work.


----------



## spudmunkey

that link doen't work for me, but when I go back to the post with the embedded image, and click the "reply" button, if I look in that post window, it does load the image after a few seconds. It doesn't always work for me, but it did here. Apparently it's an imgur thing.


----------



## theicon2125

Imgur won't work here because they have some rule against using them to embed on sites with a classifieds section. If you click the link the take the .jpg off the end it will work.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Imgur blocks ss.o. Click the link then refresh the new tab and it should load.


----------



## frank falbo

It’s moot on this particular release anyway since it’s a Wampler collab.


----------



## mastapimp

GunpointMetal said:


> Must be blocked at work.


You can also change the "i" up front to "www" and it will be unblocked.


----------



## Andromalia

xwmucradiox said:


> Tell me more about these 'entry-level Chinese components' that are so bad. I'm worried that they are the same components that are in every other electronic device on the market and that they say nothing about the quality of gear otherwise and I just can't abide that.



Components include wiring isolation, soldering quality and PCB thickness for exemple. It's not just about using brand Y instead of brand X.


----------



## GunpointMetal

The whole "imgur" site is blocked


----------



## xwmucradiox

Andromalia said:


> Components include wiring isolation, soldering quality and PCB thickness for exemple. It's not just about using brand Y instead of brand X.



Components are components. Build quality is build quality. They aren't the same thing. But also nearly all components that go into pedals regardless of quality are on their own 'cheap Chinese components.'

It's possible there is a language/semantics issue here.


----------



## Avedas

Expensive components are often used to control parameter tolerance as well, as that really is "you get what you pay for", but if I had to guess I'd say that's not all that necessary when it comes to guitar pedals.


----------



## xwmucradiox

Avedas said:


> Expensive components are often used to control parameter tolerance as well, as that really is "you get what you pay for", but if I had to guess I'd say that's not all that necessary when it comes to guitar pedals.



So there are two ways you can engineer consistency into an electronic product. 

1. Use high tolerance parts everywhere to limit variation. Technology has brought 1% resistors to super low prices so this is already standard. Even cheaper resistors you can buy are only 5% tolerance nowadays which is plenty good for guitar pedals. Pots for example are often 20% tolerance but the point of a pot is that you can find the value you want somewhere in the sweep. You can buy .1% and better tolerance resistors as well but they would drive costs up an order of magnitude and it's unlikely you would notice a difference in guitar electronics which tend to be lower fidelity as a design goal. We're often distorting things after all. 

2. Design the circuit such that critical control points are set via a trimpot and meter/scope and everywhere else that isn't critical gets a regular part. This is common in circuits with analog delay lines or oscillators that need to be tuned to a specific point to work properly. This method keeps costs down while still achieving the design goal. 

It could be a worthwhile experiment to build something that is supposed to be clean and transparent like an EQ with typical parts used in pedals and then a second one with the absolute best parts money can buy. The cheap one would probably have about $10 in parts and the expensive one would have well over $100 in parts. Then see if you can tell the difference and which one you prefer. In a lot of cases where people hear the difference between something like an exotic hifi cap and a cheap ceramic disc, they end up liking the cheap ceramic disc more!


----------



## diagrammatiks

xwmucradiox said:


> So there are two ways you can engineer consistency into an electronic product.
> 
> 1. Use high tolerance parts everywhere to limit variation. Technology has brought 1% resistors to super low prices so this is already standard. Even cheaper resistors you can buy are only 5% tolerance nowadays which is plenty good for guitar pedals. Pots for example are often 20% tolerance but the point of a pot is that you can find the value you want somewhere in the sweep. You can buy .1% and better tolerance resistors as well but they would drive costs up an order of magnitude and it's unlikely you would notice a difference in guitar electronics which tend to be lower fidelity as a design goal. We're often distorting things after all.
> 
> 2. Design the circuit such that critical control points are set via a trimpot and meter/scope and everywhere else that isn't critical gets a regular part. This is common in circuits with analog delay lines or oscillators that need to be tuned to a specific point to work properly. This method keeps costs down while still achieving the design goal.
> 
> It could be a worthwhile experiment to build something that is supposed to be clean and transparent like an EQ with typical parts used in pedals and then a second one with the absolute best parts money can buy. The cheap one would probably have about $10 in parts and the expensive one would have well over $100 in parts. Then see if you can tell the difference and which one you prefer. In a lot of cases where people hear the difference between something like an exotic hifi cap and a cheap ceramic disc, they end up liking the cheap ceramic disc more!



Your missing the point and massively overthinking this. No one here is saying the expensive stuff sounds better. 

They are just saying there should be some standards for what a 300 dollar or above boutique pedal looks like inside. That's it.


----------



## GunpointMetal

xwmucradiox said:


> So there are two ways you can engineer consistency into an electronic product.
> 
> 1. Use high tolerance parts everywhere to limit variation. Technology has brought 1% resistors to super low prices so this is already standard. Even cheaper resistors you can buy are only 5% tolerance nowadays which is plenty good for guitar pedals. Pots for example are often 20% tolerance but the point of a pot is that you can find the value you want somewhere in the sweep. You can buy .1% and better tolerance resistors as well but they would drive costs up an order of magnitude and it's unlikely you would notice a difference in guitar electronics which tend to be lower fidelity as a design goal. We're often distorting things after all.
> 
> 2. Design the circuit such that critical control points are set via a trimpot and meter/scope and everywhere else that isn't critical gets a regular part. This is common in circuits with analog delay lines or oscillators that need to be tuned to a specific point to work properly. This method keeps costs down while still achieving the design goal.
> 
> It could be a worthwhile experiment to build something that is supposed to be clean and transparent like an EQ with typical parts used in pedals and then a second one with the absolute best parts money can buy. The cheap one would probably have about $10 in parts and the expensive one would have well over $100 in parts. Then see if you can tell the difference and which one you prefer. In a lot of cases where people hear the difference between something like an exotic hifi cap and a cheap ceramic disc, they end up liking the cheap ceramic disc more!


I'm not sure why you're so salty about this, lol. If I buy what is essentially a Tubescreamer for $200+ dollars it had better be extremely clean inside as well as using better than average components, otherwise WTF are you paying for?
And we're talking about guitar players here. Some of them think that buying a $250 cable is a worthwhile investment.


----------



## xwmucradiox

This is an interesting convo for me. Def not salty. Perhaps the sarcasm in my first post didn't land. Oh well. 

My point here is that all the parts in pedals are largely the same. They're all average and the quality of component parts in a pedal isn't making a big difference compared to their values and what they're doing in the circuit. Fixating on component quality if you don't know what you're looking at isn't going to tell you much. As far as clean builds go, that's another case where things might look pretty but are actually terrible for noise and stray capacitance. 

Considering that guitarists are pretty picky and finnicky when it comes to gear there are a LOT of things other than build quality to fixate on when buying a pedal. Most of the time with boutique gear and especially signature gear people are paying to use the same thing as their hero more than anything else.


----------



## diagrammatiks

xwmucradiox said:


> This is an interesting convo for me. Def not salty. Perhaps the sarcasm in my first post didn't land. Oh well.
> 
> My point here is that all the parts in pedals are largely the same. They're all average and the quality of component parts in a pedal isn't making a big difference compared to their values and what they're doing in the circuit. Fixating on component quality if you don't know what you're looking at isn't going to tell you much. As far as clean builds go, that's another case where things might look pretty but are actually terrible for noise and stray capacitance.
> Considering that guitarists are pretty picky and finnicky when it comes to gear there are a LOT of things other than build quality to fixate on when buying a pedal. Most of the time with boutique gear and especially signature gear people are paying to use the same thing as their hero more than anything else.



but it all sounds the same so it might as well look nice.


----------



## xwmucradiox

diagrammatiks said:


> but it all sounds the same so it might as well look nice.



Yes with the caveat that the "looking nice" part doesn't unintentionally cause issues in the circuit. About 10 years ago there was a major trend of making wires in pedals look real pretty with solid core wire bent to perfect right angles and running parallel and such. Those sharp bends dramatically reduced reliability because they added a ton of stress points where the wire could break. All the wires running in parallel added stray capacitance that was unintended. Looking pretty is a great way to build hype for your product. You just gotta make sure you're not fucking something else up along the way. 

FWIW - The protone pedal I linked earlier looks like a perfectly solid build to me. The PCB is solidly mounted. The wires go directly to their destinations without a bunch of extra length. It might not be as pretty as something where someone spent an extra 30 minutes bending the wires in pretty ways but that build style was very standard before things like PCB-mounted pots and jacks became common among small builders.


----------



## 77zark77

100 pages and still a mystery ! Netflix, what are you waiting for ?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Thread title is still a thing of beauty.


----------



## StevenC

Tosin's got a new guitar in his latest Instagram story


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the pathos and pd combo sounded gross together. It was like the spankiest ear rapiest most metallic teledjent tone I've ever heard.


----------



## diagrammatiks

That picture makes Tosin look like the genie from Aladdin.


----------



## jephjacques

rockin' booty


----------



## Randy

diagrammatiks said:


> That picture makes Tosin look like the genie from Aladdin.



I would totally rock out to an AAL cover of 'Friend Like Me'


----------



## Abasi Concepts

Dear Friends of Abasi Concepts,

We are incredibly grateful for all of you who have signed up for our newsletter, and we trust that many of you are following Abasi concepts on Facebook and Instagram.

Thanks for your interest and patience this past year as we began our journey with Abasi Concepts. We’ve learned a great deal about the dynamic world of guitar manufacturing and building our company from the ground up!

While we are very excited to share our upcoming plans, we want to address some of the questions and concerns surrounding our first year. We definitely watched the discussions from the sidelines and appreciate how intuitive and attentive many of you were during our obliged silence.

So, first off we’d like to state that:

_“Tosin Abasi and Abasi Concepts, LLC, and Frank Falbo and Falbo Designs are no longer affiliated with each other in any way. We have both elected to move on and pursue our own endeavors."_

Due to various issues at our previous manufacturer, we opted to refund all customers who had spec’d custom builds, meanwhile a commitment to a large purchase order for distribution in Japan was eventually completed in several segments.   

*MOVING FORWARD *

The future is looking bright as we prepare to relaunch our guitar and product line at NAMM 2019 with new manufacturing. We are looking to begin taking new orders in Spring 2019, prioritizing the first purchase options to our early adopters who may be still interested in receiving an Abasi. Those on our waitlist, which can be joined by contacting us through the Abasi Guitars website will be next in line.

*DESIGN/EVOLUTION   *

On the design front, our main guitar model has evolved through several iterations and prototypes, and we’re currently wrapping up development on what we believe to be the best Abasi guitar to date.






We've always appreciated the iterative approach to design. Porsche is a perfect example of this. The 911 has evolved continuously for decades, always towards being “better” at being a 911. That evolution in form is sometimes detailed to the point of being imperceptible to some. Sometimes design is invisible.

One visible improvement comes in the form of a new neck joint. Previous builds had the neck to body transitions, and neck profiles, shaped with hand tools. The new process is done by CNC, which is not only more efficient, it allows for perfectly reproducible neck profiles and the ability to retain the thinness of the neck shape all the way up to the transition into the body. 

We're really stoked on this design upgrade, in particular. The feel of that unchanging neck shape and fret access is wonderful.






We also recessed the bevels further where the forearm of your picking hand meets the body of the guitar, resulting in an even more seamless playing experience. 

Finally, we were also able to achieve a more neutral weight balance when wearing the guitar and sitting, eliminating a previously subtle hit of weight-bias. 






On the business model front, we are exploring a multi-tier guitar offering, with USA production being headed by the legendary Grover Jackson, in Laguna Hills, California.

*LARADA*

For us, this guitar is the seed of so much more, yet at times, the experience of bringing it to fruition was defeating. From inception to realization, we’ve learned invaluable lessons and are better for it. 

To acknowledge the journey so far, we’ve decided it was finally time to give this design a name. “Larada” means “healed” in the language of my parents, Yoruba. We think it’s the perfect sentiment for this guitar and what music can do for us.

*NEW NAME (who dis?) + PATHOS DISTORTION*

As you may have noticed, we’re moving forward as Abasi Concepts. We’ve always intended to offer more than just guitars and we believe this title better encompasses the range of products we are looking to introduce. To that end, the first of these is the PATHOS Distortion pedal, which is available now. We’re very proud of how it’s turned out and hope you enjoy it as much as we do.



Thanks for all your support. We can’t wait to show you what’s in store!

_Tosin Abasi & Ivan Chopik
Abasi Concepts_


----------



## StevenC

Abasi Concepts said:


> Dear Friends of Abasi Concepts,
> 
> We are incredibly grateful for all of you who have signed up for our newsletter, and we trust that many of you are following Abasi concepts on Facebook and Instagram.
> 
> Thanks for your interest and patience this past year as we began our journey with Abasi Concepts. We’ve learned a great deal about the dynamic world of guitar manufacturing and building our company from the ground up!
> 
> While we are very excited to share our upcoming plans, we want to address some of the questions and concerns surrounding our first year. We definitely watched the discussions from the sidelines and appreciate how intuitive and attentive many of you were during our obliged silence.
> 
> So, first off we’d like to state that:
> 
> _“Tosin Abasi and Abasi Concepts, LLC, and Frank Falbo and Falbo Designs are no longer affiliated with each other in any way. We have both elected to move on and pursue our own endeavors."_
> 
> Due to various issues at our previous manufacturer, we opted to refund all customers who had spec’d custom builds, meanwhile a commitment to a large purchase order for distribution in Japan was eventually completed in several segments.
> 
> *MOVING FORWARD *
> 
> The future is looking bright as we prepare to relaunch our guitar and product line at NAMM 2019 with new manufacturing. We are looking to begin taking new orders in Spring 2019, prioritizing the first purchase options to our early adopters who may be still interested in receiving an Abasi. Those on our waitlist, which can be joined by contacting us through the Abasi Guitars website will be next in line.
> 
> *DESIGN/EVOLUTION   *
> 
> On the design front, our main guitar model has evolved through several iterations and prototypes, and we’re currently wrapping up development on what we believe to be the best Abasi guitar to date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've always appreciated the iterative approach to design. Porsche is a perfect example of this. The 911 has evolved continuously for decades, always towards being “better” at being a 911. That evolution in form is sometimes detailed to the point of being imperceptible to some. Sometimes design is invisible.
> 
> One visible improvement comes in the form of a new neck joint. Previous builds had the neck to body transitions, and neck profiles, shaped with hand tools. The new process is done by CNC, which is not only more efficient, it allows for perfectly reproducible neck profiles and the ability to retain the thinness of the neck shape all the way up to the transition into the body.
> 
> We're really stoked on this design upgrade, in particular. The feel of that unchanging neck shape and fret access is wonderful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We also recessed the bevels further where the forearm of your picking hand meets the body of the guitar, resulting in an even more seamless playing experience.
> 
> Finally, we were also able to achieve a more neutral weight balance when wearing the guitar and sitting, eliminating a previously subtle hit of weight-bias.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the business model front, we are exploring a multi-tier guitar offering, with USA production being headed by the legendary Grover Jackson, in Laguna Hills, California.
> 
> *LARADA*
> 
> For us, this guitar is the seed of so much more, yet at times, the experience of bringing it to fruition was defeating. From inception to realization, we’ve learned invaluable lessons and are better for it.
> 
> To acknowledge the journey so far, we’ve decided it was finally time to give this design a name. “Larada” means “healed” in the language of my parents, Yoruba. We think it’s the perfect sentiment for this guitar and what music can do for us.
> 
> *NEW NAME (who dis?) + PATHOS DISTORTION*
> 
> As you may have noticed, we’re moving forward as Abasi Concepts. We’ve always intended to offer more than just guitars and we believe this title better encompasses the range of products we are looking to introduce. To that end, the first of these is the PATHOS Distortion pedal, which is available now. We’re very proud of how it’s turned out and hope you enjoy it as much as we do.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your support. We can’t wait to show you what’s in store!
> 
> _Tosin Abasi & Ivan Chopik
> Abasi Concepts_



Hello Tosin and Ivan,

Is headless still on the cards? Also will there be a baritone hybrid model at any point to replace Tosin's Strandberg #8? Finally, I couldn't help but notice the Hantug Floyd Rose on the guitar in the background of your video; is titanium hardware something we'll be seeing more of?


----------



## Dayn

Neat.


----------



## animalsasleader

StevenC said:


> Hello Tosin and Ivan,
> 
> Is headless still on the cards? Also will there be a baritone hybrid model at any point to replace Tosin's Strandberg #8? Finally, I couldn't help but notice the Hantug Floyd Rose on the guitar in the background of your video; is titanium hardware something we'll be seeing more of?



We definitely intend to release headless versions ( the hybrid baritone is not in the cards at the moment) Concerning hardware for the headless, we’re still in development but we definitely like the idea of titanium


----------



## xzacx

Abasi Concepts said:


> On the business model front, we are exploring a multi-tier guitar offering, with USA production being headed by the legendary *Grover* *Jackson*, in Laguna Hills, California.



I’ve always thought this design was pretty cool, but was really turned off but the whole “early serial numbers” and rushed builds saga. I’m officially interested in buying one now though after this piece of info.


----------



## iamaom

I hope "multi-tier" includes an overseas asian guitar for sub $1500, cuz that's the only way I can afford one. :\


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

It's a neat design. I don't know if I will get one. The horn going up to 12th fret has always been jarring to me visually. Good to see it back in the works though  Good job Tosin!


----------



## mungiisi

Thanks for opening some things behind the Abasi Concepts so far. I can see where the 911-symbolic is coming. The guitar looks really tempting and nice atm!

And as a side note...



Abasi Concepts said:


> ...
> 
> On the business model front, we are exploring a multi-tier guitar offering, with USA production being headed by the legendary Grover Jackson, in Laguna Hills, California.
> 
> ...



Being as a huge Jackson guitars fan, this is way too cool! I hope this will come true.


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah Grover's Friedman branded guitars are really nice, I'm hopeful about this!


----------



## lurè

Really excited for the multi-tier offering.
Best of luck


----------



## BigViolin

jephjacques said:


> Yeah Grover's Friedman branded guitars are really nice, I'm hopeful about this!



Me too, I can't really think of anyone else better suited for this endeavor. Grover will get it done.


----------



## SubzeroJake

At what point should we expect Grover on here defending the quality?


----------



## Fathand

Abasi Concepts said:


> Dear Friends of Abasi Concepts,
> 
> We are incredibly grateful for all of you who have signed up for our newsletter, and we trust that many of you are following Abasi concepts on Facebook and Instagram.
> 
> Thanks for your interest and patience this past year as we began our journey with Abasi Concepts. We’ve learned a great deal about the dynamic world of guitar manufacturing and building our company from the ground up!
> 
> While we are very excited to share our upcoming plans, we want to address some of the questions and concerns surrounding our first year. We definitely watched the discussions from the sidelines and appreciate how intuitive and attentive many of you were during our obliged silence.
> 
> So, first off we’d like to state that:
> 
> _“Tosin Abasi and Abasi Concepts, LLC, and Frank Falbo and Falbo Designs are no longer affiliated with each other in any way. We have both elected to move on and pursue our own endeavors."_
> 
> Due to various issues at our previous manufacturer, we opted to refund all customers who had spec’d custom builds, meanwhile a commitment to a large purchase order for distribution in Japan was eventually completed in several segments.
> 
> *MOVING FORWARD *
> 
> The future is looking bright as we prepare to relaunch our guitar and product line at NAMM 2019 with new manufacturing. We are looking to begin taking new orders in Spring 2019, prioritizing the first purchase options to our early adopters who may be still interested in receiving an Abasi. Those on our waitlist, which can be joined by contacting us through the Abasi Guitars website will be next in line.
> 
> *DESIGN/EVOLUTION   *
> 
> On the design front, our main guitar model has evolved through several iterations and prototypes, and we’re currently wrapping up development on what we believe to be the best Abasi guitar to date.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've always appreciated the iterative approach to design. Porsche is a perfect example of this. The 911 has evolved continuously for decades, always towards being “better” at being a 911. That evolution in form is sometimes detailed to the point of being imperceptible to some. Sometimes design is invisible.
> 
> One visible improvement comes in the form of a new neck joint. Previous builds had the neck to body transitions, and neck profiles, shaped with hand tools. The new process is done by CNC, which is not only more efficient, it allows for perfectly reproducible neck profiles and the ability to retain the thinness of the neck shape all the way up to the transition into the body.
> 
> We're really stoked on this design upgrade, in particular. The feel of that unchanging neck shape and fret access is wonderful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We also recessed the bevels further where the forearm of your picking hand meets the body of the guitar, resulting in an even more seamless playing experience.
> 
> Finally, we were also able to achieve a more neutral weight balance when wearing the guitar and sitting, eliminating a previously subtle hit of weight-bias.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the business model front, we are exploring a multi-tier guitar offering, with USA production being headed by the legendary Grover Jackson, in Laguna Hills, California.
> 
> *LARADA*
> 
> For us, this guitar is the seed of so much more, yet at times, the experience of bringing it to fruition was defeating. From inception to realization, we’ve learned invaluable lessons and are better for it.
> 
> To acknowledge the journey so far, we’ve decided it was finally time to give this design a name. “Larada” means “healed” in the language of my parents, Yoruba. We think it’s the perfect sentiment for this guitar and what music can do for us.
> 
> *NEW NAME (who dis?) + PATHOS DISTORTION*
> 
> As you may have noticed, we’re moving forward as Abasi Concepts. We’ve always intended to offer more than just guitars and we believe this title better encompasses the range of products we are looking to introduce. To that end, the first of these is the PATHOS Distortion pedal, which is available now. We’re very proud of how it’s turned out and hope you enjoy it as much as we do.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your support. We can’t wait to show you what’s in store!
> 
> _Tosin Abasi & Ivan Chopik_




If there is a budget level version of the 8-string I might be interested and a potential customer (I dig the design), but I actually just wanted to drop in and wish you good luck with the business and all the best!

I can only imagine how multifaceted it is to try to start a business with the most finnicky customers (musicians) as your target segment.


----------



## A-Branger

glad to see things moving forward again. Best of luck, I dig the design. Looking forward to see them at NAMM


----------



## Randy

SubzeroJake said:


> At what point should we expect Grover on here defending the quality?



Never because he's got nothing to prove.


----------



## thomas.reuter

Cant wait


----------



## diagrammatiks

We’ll always have Japan.


----------



## xzacx

Randy said:


> Never because he's got nothing to prove.



Exactly, I’d like to think he’d never put something like what we saw last time out into the wild in the first place—the product or the excuses.


----------



## Avedas

I've been a fan of this design forever and I think the new iteration looks great. The new business model sounds hopeful (and no, I don't want to pay $5000 USD for one even though I live in Japan) and I hope to get my hands on an Abasi guitar in the coming years.


----------



## lewis

with Christmas fast approaching, I will wait until a good replica appears in China so I can buy one and use it to warm my house.


----------



## A-Branger

lewis said:


> with Christmas fast approaching, I will wait until a good replica appears in China so I can buy one and use it to warm my house.


mate they have been making those since the Ibanez prototype days. Even poped up in this tread many pages ago  

I sugested to make a 5-10$ raffle entry and winner gets the guitar hahah


----------



## prlgmnr

A-Branger said:


> mate they have been making those since the Ibanez prototype days. Even poped up in this tread many pages ago
> 
> I sugested to make a 5-10$ raffle entry and winner gets the guitar hahah


How about a $5 raffle and the winner gets to pick who out of the entrants has to use the resulting guitar as their main instrument for 1 year?


----------



## lewis

hahaha! Im game

but only if the headstock is twice the size of an RG8 headstock. So if i fall over board I can use it to survive ala Rose in Titanic.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

prlgmnr said:


> How about a $5 raffle and the winner gets to pick who out of the entrants has to use the resulting guitar as their main instrument for 1 year?


 I nominate @Hollowway


----------



## Abasi Concepts

Thanks for the support, guys! We'll keep you posted once we have more news to share very soon. - Ivan


----------



## Hollowway

KnightBrolaire said:


> I nominate @Hollowway


Haha, the weirder the better!


----------



## SubzeroJake

Is the Tele Variant still on the table?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Alright, I am down and also vote @Hollowway


----------



## yngve knudsen

Really considering this now when waiting for Tosin to sell some of the eight string abasi's:

Ibanez RGIM8MH

I think Strandberg does not look as cool as a black rg model.

Anybody have some experiences with it?

I have a ibanez prestige eight with abasi pickups and that guitar is a bit more expensive but does not have fan fret multiscale.


----------



## Andromalia

Randy said:


> Never because he's got nothing to prove.



At any point, everybody has to prove he still has it. I mean, Bernie Rico Jr made nice guitars at the same time as Grover Jackson did.


----------



## xzacx

Andromalia said:


> At any point, everybody has to prove he still has it. I mean, Bernie Rico Jr made nice guitars at the same time as Grover Jackson did.



Grover has really never stopped though. He did his own brand, and more recently has been building the Friedman guitars which are actually super nice. I've played a few and almost bought one.


----------



## cardinal

Ikebe Gakki has a few more.

I like this one but man whoever built this or is building the new ones:
https://www.ikebe-gakki.com/ec/pro/disp/1/609900

Please make the fretboard wider. Even with the hardtails, the strings are awfully close to the edges of the board by the time they are crossing the highest frets. With the Floyd 8's wide string spread, it looks nearly unplayable.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

cardinal said:


> Ikebe Gakki has a few more.
> 
> I like this one but man whoever built this or is building the new ones:
> https://www.ikebe-gakki.com/ec/pro/disp/1/609900
> 
> Please make the fretboard wider. Even with the hardtails, the strings are awfully close to the edges of the board by the time they are crossing the highest frets. With the Floyd 8's wide string spread, it looks nearly unplayable.


That one has the old style heel on it.


----------



## CloudsUr

I really don't get the body shape.
I see the word ergonomic used a lot when talking about tosin's design but i find really hard to wrap my head around that huge upper shoulder.
I fail to see how that helps playability.


----------



## guitaardvark

CloudsUr said:


> I really don't get the body shape.
> I see the word ergonomic used a lot when talking about tosin's design but i find really hard to wrap my head around that huge upper shoulder.
> I fail to see how that helps playability.


I believe it helps balance the guitar to help alleviate neck dive as well as provide a resting point when tapping.


----------



## cardinal

Depending on how they attach the neck to it, it also helps to stiffen the neck by bracing it along more of its edge, which supposedly can impact sustain and resonance and such.


----------



## A-Branger

also looks cool


----------



## possumkiller

StevenC said:


> Tosin's got a new guitar in his latest Instagram story
> View attachment 65240


Has it always had the Agile/Darren headstock?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

possumkiller said:


> Has it always had the Agile/Darren headstock?


yes


----------



## diagrammatiks

A-Branger said:


> also looks cool



Also instantly know who is a dad rocker. 

Hurr sure how I get my thumb over that.


----------



## StevenC

possumkiller said:


> Has it always had the Agile/Darren headstock?


Yes, Darren helped design the guitar. Hence the curse.


----------



## Mathemagician

New Year new attempt at grabbing a low serial number. Don’t let me down thread.


----------



## frank falbo

StevenC said:


> Yes, Darren helped design the guitar. Hence the curse.


Actually Darren did the original body drawings in Rhino. I did the headstock. It started at a dinner conversation like “what are we going to do about the headstock?” And I said “let me see that pen...”


----------



## TheTrve7

frank falbo said:


> Actually Darren did the original body drawings in Rhino. I did the headstock. It started at a dinner conversation like “what are we going to do about the headstock?” And I said “let me see that pen...”



View media item 1529Hmm interesting


----------



## I play music

TheTrve7 said:


> View media item 1529Hmm interesting


----------



## Avedas

Falbo Majesty?


----------



## narad

In general the headstock seems nicer? Love the way the black on the headstock goes over the edge a bit more than usual and complements the neck wood. Feel like the logo font is a bit too classy for such an ergy guitar.

Not sure how I feel about the body. Definitely sad to see the semi-circular bevel line go as that does make it a lot less futuristicy.


----------



## SubzeroJake

CloudsUr said:


> I really don't get the body shape.
> I see the word ergonomic used a lot when talking about tosin's design but i find really hard to wrap my head around that huge upper shoulder.
> I fail to see how that helps playability.


Looks like your prayers have been answered by the Falbo Majesty Series


----------



## Albake21

I play music said:


>


I actually kind of like this more. It's a more classy version of the Abasi one. Frank did say he made the headstock too.


----------



## cardinal

Neat looking, but the neck looks super narrow like the earlier Abasi Guitars. The strings looks incredibly close to the edges of the frets. 

Is there a reason not to give some room there? Looks very hard to play.


----------



## frank falbo

No reason it can’t be wider. I think on an 8 it _can_ appear closer to the edge since everything else is wider. But on this one it’s over .100” space up at the last fret and around .13x near the nut.

Basically, if you take “Floyd/Fender” spacing against an Ibanez Wizard 6-string neck, those are the overhang measurements you get at the last fret. So the playing surface overhang is equal to an RG or S model for example.

But both can be adjusted. I can bring the bridges in, to a more Gibson-ish spacing, or bring the neck out, whatever the customer wants. But I’m using Wizard/Edge measurements as my standard.


----------



## SubzeroJake

frank falbo said:


> No reason it can’t be wider. I think on an 8 it _can_ appear closer to the edge since everything else is wider. But on this one it’s over .100” space up at the last fret and around .13x near the nut.
> 
> Basically, if you take “Floyd/Fender” spacing against an Ibanez Wizard 6-string neck, those are the overhang measurements you get at the last fret. So the playing surface overhang is equal to an RG or S model for example.
> 
> But both can be adjusted. I can bring the bridges in, to a more Gibson-ish spacing, or bring the neck out, whatever the customer wants. But I’m using Wizard/Edge measurements as my standard.


This is a great design Frank. It accommodates us thumb over players. Are you currently taking orders for these? And if so are you willing to take customs?


----------



## frank falbo

SubzeroJake said:


> This is a great design Frank. It accommodates us thumb over players. Are you currently taking orders for these? And if so are you willing to take customs?



Thank you and thanks everyone for the kindness. It’s important to say that anyone who wants an Abasi, should get an Abasi when they release the details of _their_ next run.

These represent my contribution to the ERG/ergo design space; a growing segment with room for everyone. So yes, I’m currently taking orders for standard versions and customs, and willing to discuss custom options and variations.


----------



## A-Branger

looks sick!


----------



## pfizer

Looking forward to the headless designs at NAMM


----------



## ImNotAhab

Avedas said:


> Falbo Majesty?



The Fajesty.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

ImNotAhab said:


> The Fajesty.


I think Majelbo sounds better


----------



## Toxin

Okay, we expected one Abasi guitar, but we got two...FALBASI!


----------



## cip 123

Seen a similar design by Drinkwater this past year -


----------



## ElysianGuitars

cip 123 said:


> Seen a similar design by Drinkwater this past year -


Not seeing that much similarity.


----------



## cip 123

ElysianGuitars said:


> Not seeing that much similarity.


I'm not going after Frank (or Tom for that matter) or anything. Things can look similar without the creator's ever knowing about something similar.









But c'mon really "Not much similarity"?


----------



## A-Branger

I thnk those two "similarity" are a happy accident. The drinkwatter guitar seems to be a "lets grab a BlackMachine style body and put the Abasi leg support on the bottom" ...I remember seeing a blue one ages ago too

and Falbo is more like "let me grab Tosin design, and give it two horns and fix the big bevel (and add bit more here) for a more traditional look"

aslo DW is fully flat top, and Falbo is beveled and rounded on the edges


----------



## narad

Jeez, you have a giant U cutout for a leg here, a giant U cutout for a leg there, and horns. Given that constraint, builders are going to have to start putting huge Prince-esque scrolls for horns to avoid you guys bringing up the accusations.


----------



## cip 123

It's obvious to see where the design from Frank came from having worked on the Abasi, it's just a double cut Abasi (If Frank won't get mad at me for being so crude)

The Raptor is based of your regular headless design look at any other big headless maker and you'll see similarities, also Drinkwater has been doing headless for years. With similar U cuts.



narad said:


> Jeez, you have a giant U cutout for a leg here, a giant U cutout for a leg there, and horns. Given that constraint, builders are going to have to start putting huge Prince-esque scrolls for horns to avoid you guys bringing up the accusations.


It's literally 2 8 strings, with Fishmans, 2 controls, monorail bridges, fan fret, and a very similar body. I never said "Hey Frank you ripped off Tom!" No I said it's a similar design, just to bring it up in case anyone was interested, it's a guitar forum, we talk about guitars. A page back everyone mentioned how similar it was to the Majesty?



A-Branger said:


> I thnk those two "similarity" are a happy accident. The drinkwatter guitar seems to be a "lets grab a BlackMachine style body and put the Abasi leg support on the bottom" ...I remember seeing a blue one ages ago too
> 
> and Falbo is more like "let me grab Tosin design, and give it two horns and fix the big bevel (and add bit more here) for a more traditional look"
> 
> aslo DW is fully flat top, and Falbo is beveled and rounded on the edges



The blue one is all rounded edges more similar to this, without the Abasi arm curve. I like the design, I like both.


----------



## Randy

narad said:


> Jeez, you have a giant U cutout for a leg here, a giant U cutout for a leg there, and horns. Given that constraint, builders are going to have to start putting huge Prince-esque scrolls for horns to avoid you guys bringing up the accusations.



I wouldn't say anybodys exactly accusing anyone of anything. Just like we had strats and super strats, teles and super teles, a million variations of the LP body, the Strandberg design was a game changer and all variations are going to be somewhat analogous. 

I think both designs look awesome, I think they clearly share a common ancestor but they both do their own thing and I'm glad there are options out there.


----------



## frank falbo

cip 123 said:


> It's obvious to see where the design from Frank came from having worked on the Abasi, it's just a double cut Abasi (If Frank won't get mad at me for being so crude)


Nah no worries its all good. Every guitar gets compared to other guitars. If you overlay the two designs, they're pretty different. I mean the double cutaway is obvious, but all the rest of the contours are about as different as if you overlaid a PRS on top of a Strat, or a Strat over an RG. Treble cutaway is longer, goes out at a different trajectory, etc. (Of course you'll have to take my word for that since I'm literally the only person on the planet right now who can actually do that  )

Drinkwater makes great looking guitars from what I've seen. I haven't held one but I imagine they're top notch and I support anyone buying one of his guitars over mine. Nothing but love all around. And worth repeating especially since this began as the Abasi thread, if you like the Abasis, then wait until they release the details of their next run. 



A-Branger said:


> ...and Falbo is beveled and rounded on the edges


Just a quick but important distinction, there are actually no bevels on mine. All the curves and transitions are rounded and smooth, aside from the little tip of the cutaways and rear scoop. And the outside edge of the bass horn transitions from a positive curve to a recurve like a PRS or Japanese ESP Horizon type of thing. That makes a sharper peak on that cutaway but it's not a bevel. Nothing wrong with bevels of course, if that's what you're into...


----------



## narad

frank falbo said:


> Just a quick but important distinction, there are actually no bevels on mine.


----------



## frank falbo

If I weren’t already happily married 23 years, I’d ask for your digits bro.


----------



## A-Branger

frank falbo said:


> Just a quick but important distinction, there are actually no bevels on mine. All the curves and transitions are rounded and smooth, aside from the little tip of the cutaways and rear scoop. And the outside edge of the bass horn transitions from a positive curve to a recurve like a PRS or Japanese ESP Horizon type of thing. That makes a sharper peak on that cutaway but it's not a bevel. Nothing wrong with bevels of course, if that's what you're into...


aaahh cool. I was just going from your pic. I know its more rounded and smooth, just wasnt sure if its still tecnically a "bevel" or it had another name. Still I like it more, also a recurve is awesome, love me some of those, doesnt show in that photo (because light/angle) but its awesome that you added that, pretty keen to check it out at NAMM if you are going to be there


----------



## Veldar

OMG FRANKS ALIVE


----------



## frank falbo

Where’d you think I went? 

I’d like to think if I died it would’ve at least trended on socials for 12-18 hours.


----------



## cardinal

I dig it. It might look a bit odd with a straight scale and a Floyd though; not sure.


----------



## Veldar

frank falbo said:


> Where’d you think I went?
> 
> I’d like to think if I died it would’ve at least trended on socials for 12-18 hours.



I don't know, I just didn't think you'd be posting in this thread anymore hahaha


----------



## gunch

alright so what happened I don't want to read like 100 pages of thread, did this Falbo dude like not expect demand and tap out or what 

and why does it seem that Tosin changes what he endorses at the drop of a hat?


----------



## cardinal

silverabyss said:


> alright so what happened I don't want to read like 100 pages of thread, did this Falbo dude like not expect demand and tap out or what
> 
> and why does it seem that Tosin changes what he endorses at the drop of a hat?



Tosin and Frank Falbo parted ways, each seems to still be pursuing ERGs. Everything else is just speculation, so just watch what comes of it and decide based on the product(s) that actually hit the market.

Tosin probably changes endorsements because he can and enjoys new stuff, but I suppose that's also just speculation.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I don’t care about the what or the why of the split up, I just hope both of these guys are getting what they want and happy with the results. Let’s be honest, there have been some absolute tantrums thrown by dealers/luthiers/artists that we all know and love, but this was handled with class and respect as far as the public is concerned. I plan to pay that class and respect back by not going looking for “the tea” as the kids say these days, let them dudes live lol.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

tosin and his buddy ivan are trying to get a mass produced version of the guitars going, or at least that's what I'm assuming based off their IG page where they have a bunch of guitars ready to go for namm.


----------



## StevenC

KnightBrolaire said:


> tosin and his buddy ivan are trying to get a mass produced version of the guitars going, or at least that's what I'm assuming based off their IG page where they have a bunch of guitars ready to go for namm.


Aren't those just the last of the Falbo ones that have been all over Japanese sites lately?


----------



## narad

cardinal said:


> Tosin probably changes endorsements because he can and enjoys new stuff, but I suppose that's also just speculation.



It's great Tosin enjoys new stuff but he should stick with one manufacturer at least long enough that us random guitar consumer people can also try one out...


----------



## animalsasleader

Hey Guys,

For various reasons we kept the internal reality of our business dealings with Frank quiet. Primarily, to focus on not damaging the perception of our brand in its infancy, and to figure out how to deal with the damage Frank has caused.

Long story short:

By early March, we paid Frank the full deposit amount necessary to complete 51 guitars by April 15th (an amount and deadline HE set). Frank told us this amount encompassed all materials, labor, and shop overhead (ie. Rent, utilities, and even equipment maintenance).

After missing the first deadline, Frank informs us that he’s broke due to “cost overruns” and over-purchasing parts for future builds. He asked for further funding to continue the builds.

This made no sense. When pressed for receipts of what he’d spent the deposit money on, he told us he was uncomfortable with our line of questioning and that "he would have a stress heart attack if we continued to ask for answers" and “you can’t walk into Seymour Duncan and ask for receipts to see how much they spent on copper wire”.

This was a serious red flag for us. There’s no honest excuse for not having proper accounting or receipts for purchases - in any properly run organization - especially to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

Eventually, Frank agrees to disclose every expense he could manifest that went towards Abasi builds. He falls tens of thousands of dollars short of the deposit amount he received, and eventually admits to taking at least $15,000 for personal use (although our accounting shows a deficit of almost TWICE that amount).

He took money off the top while leaving the most expensive components (i.e Fishman pickups, stainless steel fretwire, etc…) left un-purchased in the balance, along with the remaining thousands of dollars needed for labor and rent at his shop. He later willfully and knowingly ordered those parts/services having already embezzled money needed to pay for them, leaving us with the bill.

He began ghosting on his workers when they asked to be paid for completed work.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=16I9aL04NxoDWIvjV4yi2GV4pBW0TySwn






*This is the classic story of a luthier taking deposit money and not building guitars with the money. A situation we explicitly explained to Frank we never wanted to end up in.*

Frank could no longer be trusted to receive lump sums of deposit money to spend on guitars. We decided to withhold any further payments to Frank, and took it upon ourselves to order and pay for the missing materials, as well as his laborers - for months in order to try to finish these guitars.

Deadlines continued to be missed, so we were forced to stop taking new orders.

In August, weeks before the fifth missed deadline, we received a picture of an eviction notice served by the Ventura County Sheriff’s Department, declaring imminent, forceable removal and seizure of assets within Frank’s shop. It seems Frank had not paid his rent since we started working together - information he knowingly and willfully withheld from us, along with not holding a valid business license (which is illegal).





https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhTnyJZMy2AImfwMNsp_zztw4cugOZ5e

At this point, police were about to lock up all our property inside of Frank’s shop. We decided to remove all our assets we paid for and seek to complete them elsewhere.

Frank had shown his character and deemed himself completely untrustworthy. Any business with him was out of the question. Five missed deadlines, tens of thousands of dollars in embezzled deposit monies, and numerous quality control issues are beyond reason enough to sever the relationship.

A few examples of quality control issues:





https://drive.google.com/open?id=1C-euuHnRnM89w-ckAjBoZfkK2YSSJw1t
https://www.dropbox.com/s/odmyr6420z6kunu/IMG_2320.MOV?dl=0

We took it upon ourselves to refund everyone with an outstanding order, out of our personal pockets. The incomplete builds that were salvageable were completed in Japan and delivered to buyers. The costs necessary to complete this purchase order and save our relationship with our Japanese dealers and distributors equated in a total loss of profit for the order to us. This, coupled with the fact that we have been unable to take new orders since May of 2018, means Abasi Concepts did not generate a single dollar of profit since inception.


After all this…


He announces a “new” ERG line of guitars that is clearly a re-worked version of our CAD files.

Previous to our relationship with Frank, Falbo Designs had only produced acoustic and semi-hollow guitars - NO extended range guitars, NO multi-scale guitars, NO headless guitars. Everything present in his new line of guitars is leeched off his former relationship with Abasi.

We had hoped to handle this internally, because our priority is to simply provide you guys with awesome guitars. Our silence in the matter doesn’t seem to be serving us any longer, because of the rumors flying around.

Given our experience with Frank, we SERIOUSLY caution anyone who is considering buying a guitar from him. Our experience with him is not unique and we have talked to a handful of other people who have similar gripes with Falbo and are willing to come forward in solidarity if need be.

Forums like this one are important, because we can look out for each other as a community. As unfortunate as this story is, it is not new - we’ve all seen it before. We’re warning you, because we wished somebody had warned us.



Tosin & Ivan


----------



## Jason B

lol


----------



## MaxOfMetal

animalsasleader said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> For various reasons we kept the internal reality of our business dealings with Frank quiet. Primarily, to focus on not damaging the perception of our brand in its infancy, and to figure out how to deal with the damage Frank has caused.
> 
> Long story short:
> 
> By early March, we paid Frank the full deposit amount necessary to complete 51 guitars by April 15th (an amount and deadline HE set). Frank told us this amount encompassed all materials, labor, and shop overhead (ie. Rent, utilities, and even equipment maintenance).
> 
> After missing the first deadline, Frank informs us that he’s broke due to “cost overruns” and over-purchasing parts for future builds. He asked for further funding to continue the builds.
> 
> This made no sense. When pressed for receipts of what he’d spent the deposit money on, he told us he was uncomfortable with our line of questioning and that "he would have a stress heart attack if we continued to ask for answers" and “you can’t walk into Seymour Duncan and ask for receipts to see how much they spent on copper wire”.
> 
> This was a serious red flag for us. There’s no honest excuse for not having proper accounting or receipts for purchases - in any properly run organization - especially to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.
> 
> Eventually, Frank agrees to disclose every expense he could manifest that went towards Abasi builds. He falls tens of thousands of dollars short of the deposit amount he received, and eventually admits to taking at least $15,000 for personal use (although our accounting shows a deficit of almost TWICE that amount).
> 
> He took money off the top while leaving the most expensive components (i.e Fishman pickups, stainless steel fretwire, etc…) left un-purchased in the balance, along with the remaining thousands of dollars needed for labor and rent at his shop. He later willfully and knowingly ordered those parts/services having already embezzled money needed to pay for them, leaving us with the bill.
> 
> He began ghosting on his workers when they asked to be paid for completed work.
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=16I9aL04NxoDWIvjV4yi2GV4pBW0TySwn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *This is the classic story of a luthier taking deposit money and not building guitars with the money. A situation we explicitly explained to Frank we never wanted to end up in.*
> 
> Frank could no longer be trusted to receive lump sums of deposit money to spend on guitars. We decided to withhold any further payments to Frank, and took it upon ourselves to order and pay for the missing materials, as well as his laborers - for months in order to try to finish these guitars.
> 
> Deadlines continued to be missed, so we were forced to stop taking new orders.
> 
> In August, weeks before the fifth missed deadline, we received a picture of an eviction notice served by the Ventura County Sheriff’s Department, declaring imminent, forceable removal and seizure of assets within Frank’s shop. It seems Frank had not paid his rent since we started working together - information he knowingly and willfully withheld from us, along with not holding a valid business license (which is illegal).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mhTnyJZMy2AImfwMNsp_zztw4cugOZ5e
> 
> At this point, police were about to lock up all our property inside of Frank’s shop. We decided to remove all our assets we paid for and seek to complete them elsewhere.
> 
> Frank had shown his character and deemed himself completely untrustworthy. Any business with him was out of the question. Five missed deadlines, tens of thousands of dollars in embezzled deposit monies, and numerous quality control issues are beyond reason enough to sever the relationship.
> 
> A few examples of quality control issues:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1C-euuHnRnM89w-ckAjBoZfkK2YSSJw1t
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/odmyr6420z6kunu/IMG_2320.MOV?dl=0
> 
> We took it upon ourselves to refund everyone with an outstanding order, out of our personal pockets. The incomplete builds that were salvageable were completed in Japan and delivered to buyers. The costs necessary to complete this purchase order and save our relationship with our Japanese dealers and distributors equated in a total loss of profit for the order to us. This, coupled with the fact that we have been unable to take new orders since May of 2018, means Abasi Concepts did not generate a single dollar of profit since inception.
> 
> 
> After all this…
> 
> 
> He announces a “new” ERG line of guitars that is clearly a re-worked version of our CAD files.
> 
> Previous to our relationship with Frank, Falbo Designs had only produced acoustic and semi-hollow guitars - NO extended range guitars, NO multi-scale guitars, NO headless guitars. Everything present in his new line of guitars is leeched off his former relationship with Abasi.
> 
> We had hoped to handle this internally, because our priority is to simply provide you guys with awesome guitars. Our silence in the matter doesn’t seem to be serving us any longer, because of the rumors flying around.
> 
> Given our experience with Frank, we SERIOUSLY caution anyone who is considering buying a guitar from him. Our experience with him is not unique and we have talked to a handful of other people who have similar gripes with Falbo and are willing to come forward in solidarity if need be.
> 
> Forums like this one are important, because we can look out for each other as a community. As unfortunate as this story is, it is not new - we’ve all seen it before. We’re warning you, because we wished somebody had warned us.
> 
> 
> 
> Tosin & Ivan



Fuck.


----------



## ramses

[ noted ]


----------



## Restarted

Holy crap


----------



## sighval

WOW. Frank's got some nerve, that's for sure.


----------



## mastapimp

Wow, this is way worse than anyone had previously speculated. Wonderful explanation w/ proof and examples. I seriously thought about jumping on board w/ a pre-order but wanted to see some more examples after the first run. Seeing the Japanese guitars put up some red flags, but the video of the finish and pics of trem routing and placement was unexpected. As I don't always support airing dirty laundry, I think it's warranted in this case. Thank you!


----------



## prlgmnr

Bloody hell.


----------



## Siggevaio

If there's been trouble with a luthier before (altough unaware of at the time) it might be a good idea to do some thorough research before going into business with them, instead of thinking that everything is a-okay just because nobody warned you. Anyway, that was unexpected and what a bummer. People like Falbo must be people that aren't aware of the power of the internet and social media. Everything will eventually reach the surface and then you're pretty much done for.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

another day, another flaky luthier


----------



## prlgmnr

I'm getting a coffee and a croissant and waiting for the "What do you think you are seeing here?" post/ supposedly exonerating Levi Clay interview/"It was $15000 worth of buffing compound"


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

frank falbo said:


> I guess my issue is that I’m extremely passionate about guitars, and my tolerance for quality not only meets, but rivals or exceeds what most experienced guitar makers and players would consider “the best”. My peers not only tip their hats, but in many cases seek advice and counsel from me, and utilize me and my team to improve what they do.


Must have been too busy building other peoples guitars are giving wizardly advice to work on the Abasi brand.

SSO's been the ground zero for how many of these situations now? Its gotta at least be 7-10 at this point.


----------



## frank falbo

Hey guys, I’ll prepare a more comprehensive response shortly.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY




----------



## MaxOfMetal




----------



## animalsasleader

frank falbo said:


> Hey guys, I’ll prepare a more comprehensive response shortly.



Unless it is receipts for the deposit money we gave you, nobody cares. I’m sure you had “a comprehensive response” for your landlord by the time you were $13,000 past due on your rent. Also, good luck trying to make excuses for the insanely bad build issues we had to pay to have corrected.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Come on guys. We all knew this was under the surface. This thread has now delivered. 

My condolences to anyone screwed in these proceedings of course.


----------



## Demiurge

The reasonable side of me would say that it would have been better for Abasi Concepts to say something vague like, "We cannot comment on a matter currently/probably going to be in litigation," instead of stating an allegation of embezzlement in a public forum (hello, countersuit)- BUT I WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED!


----------



## PariahMusic

Demiurge said:


> The reasonable side of me would say that it would have been better for Abasi Concepts to say something vague like, "We cannot comment on a matter currently/probably going to be in litigation," instead of stating an allegation of embezzlement in a public forum (hello, countersuit)- BUT I WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED!


Yep, I preferred the classy silence, but seeing new builds in the same vein after dealing with all of this ..I can imagine that being a breaking point. I imagine Tosin and Ivan having shots by the computer and saying screw it, drop the bombs


----------



## animalsasleader

Bingo. Also, we’ve kept this “classy” and silent for almost the entirety of last year.


----------



## PariahMusic

animalsasleader said:


> Bingo. Also, we’ve kept this “classy” and silent for almost the entirety of last year.


Nah, I understand. Cautionary tale that need to be told. I hope everything works out for everyone. The Pathos is one of my favorite pedals, so there's that!


----------



## SACharles

Damn shame. Hope this all gets resolved and you guys get what you're owed.


----------



## CloudsUr

Come on! It's 2019 and the internet it's kind of a thing right now.
You can't expect something like this not to come out, especially since the main audience of this kind of guitars is fans of a semi niche genre that has is roots on the internet and in this very forum


----------



## Legion

Oof.
That is all I will say.


----------



## axxessdenied

Kinda don't regret not getting Fishman's now in my last guitar build and getting a Lundgren instead. Yikes. I kind of have a feeling any good work that has left Falbo's shop was possibly ghost built by other luthiers ghost building in his shop for him. Having ordered guitars from guys like Thorn I know what top-notch quality looks like and what how they stand behind their work. The issues on the guitars we saw leaving Frank's shop were massive red flags. 
This is just BRJ all over again. Taking people's money. Spending it on himself, claiming potential health issues. C'mon... .WE'VE SEEN THIS GAME PLAYED TOO OFTEN. 

And, people wonder why Gibson and Fender does so well. Because little guys like this leave bad taste in guitarists mouths and they just go to something they can rely on to not be garbage.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

We've see this same story so many times on this site 



animalsasleader said:


> By early March, we paid Frank the full deposit amount necessary to complete 51 guitars by April 15th (an amount and deadline HE set).





51 guitars completed in 6-7 weeks?


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

animalsasleader said:


> Unless it is receipts for the deposit money we gave you, nobody cares. I’m sure you had “a comprehensive response” for your landlord by the time you were $13,000 past due on your rent. Also, good luck trying to make excuses for the insanely bad build issues we had to pay to have corrected.



There are two sides to every story and everyone deserves to be heard. The slander and misinformation on this site is staggering.


----------



## diagrammatiks

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> There are two sides to every story and everyone deserves to be heard. The slander and misinformation on this site is staggering.



First post. Seems legit.


----------



## cwhitey2

Well this got interesting


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

diagrammatiks said:


> First post. Seems legit.



Believe me, it’s legit. I know the other side and I’m horrified that this is even happening. Very sad situation all around, but there are definitely lies being told.


----------



## GXPO

How completely and utterly unexpected.


----------



## animalsasleader

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Believe me, it’s legit. I know the other side and I’m horrified that this is even happening. Very sad situation all around, but there are definitely lies being told.



I haven’t told any lies. I have evidence for all of the claims I’ve made.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

animalsasleader said:


> I haven’t told any lies. I have evidence for all of the claims I’ve made.



“OK”


----------



## diagrammatiks

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Believe me, it’s legit. I know the other side and I’m horrified that this is even happening. Very sad situation all around, but there are definitely lies being told.



This isn’t our first rodeo. Excuse us if we are a bit jaded. If there’s another side of this story we will gladly hear it.


----------



## cwhitey2

@IntegrityIsEverything 

Please provide some "evidence". 

Also, are you undercover Frank?


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

cwhitey2 said:


> @IntegrityIsEverything
> 
> Please provide some "evidence".
> 
> Also, are you undercover Frank?



I’m actually just going to follow this. We own a Falbo guitar and this has gotten so personal.


----------



## Albake21

Well shit.... I just thought it was a mutual break and that's it. Definitely was not expecting that, but I thank you Tosin and Ivan for telling us. I'd much rather know (especially with Frank making his own ERG now) than keeping it silent.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

diagrammatiks said:


> This isn’t our first rodeo. Excuse us if we are a bit jaded. If there’s another side of this story we will gladly hear it.



I understand. I’m waiting for him to compose one as well - this has just gotten out of control so I signed in to follow the thread.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

animalsasleader said:


> I haven’t told any lies. I have evidence for all of the claims I’ve made.


You claimed Frank doesn't have a business license. How is that possible when he legitimately has an LLC, which anyone can look up the public records on? File #201305810237 if anyone wants to check here themselves. https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/CBS/Detail

edit: You also claimed he had never made a multiscale, which is false, he's made multiscale acoustics.


----------



## Albake21

ElysianGuitars said:


> You claimed Frank doesn't have a business license. How is that possible when he legitimately has an LLC, which anyone can look up the public records on? File #201305810237 if anyone wants to check here themselves. https://businesssearch.sos.ca.gov/CBS/Detail


It's suspended... It's also addressed to a home. Unless his shop is a home.


----------



## axxessdenied

*201305810237 FALBO DESIGNS LLC*

Registration Date:
01/23/2013
Jurisdiction:
CALIFORNIA
Entity Type:
DOMESTIC
*Status:
SOS/FTB SUSPENDED*
Agent for Service of Process:
FRANK FALBO 
7750 EISENHOWER ST
VENTURA CA 93003
Entity Address:
7750 EISENHOWER ST
VENTURA CA 93003
Entity Mailing Address:
7750 EISENHOWER ST
VENTURA CA 93003
LLC Management
Member Managed


Notice the suspended status?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Albake21 said:


> It's suspended... It's also addressed to a home. Unless his shop is a home.


My business is addressed to my home as well. 

I nearly had my LLC suspended this year for improper filing, I didn't know I had to file an updated disclosure regarding who runs the company and only barely escaped suspension.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

ElysianGuitars said:


> You claimed Frank doesn't have a business license. s.



The post says he didnt have a valid business licence. You posted to a suspended licence which would make it in-valid. You just proved what he wrote.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Albake21 said:


> It's suspended... It's also addressed to a home. Unless his shop is a home.


yup, and it looks like it's for tax reasons of some sort.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

animalsasleader said:


> Idiot...



Tosin, there are two sides to every story. You are attacking someone who doesn’t have the money you do to legally defend themselves. But the truth will eventually come out.


----------



## axxessdenied

Me today: F5 on this page


----------



## odibrom

... now this is scaling up fast...


----------



## KnightBrolaire




----------



## diagrammatiks

Still waiting for the other side. Furiously refreshing.


----------



## animalsasleader

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Tosin, there are two sides to every story. You are attacking someone who doesn’t have the money you do to legally defend themselves. But the truth will eventually come out.



I don’t know who you are or why you’re assuming to know more about this situation than me. I trusted Frank by going into business with him. I promoted him in interviews and consistently spoke highly of him. I literally gave him a percentage of ownership in ABASI because I believed in him and considered him my friend. Instead of taking this opportunity to become the luthier he believes himself to be, took money I gave him and used it to his personal benefit and offered me zero explanation.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

animalsasleader said:


> I don’t know who you are or why you’re assuming to know more about this situation than me. I trusted Frank by going into business with him. I promoted him in interviews and consistently spoke highly of him. I literally gave him a percentage of ownership in ABASI because I believed in him and considered him my friend. Instead of taking this opportunity to become the luthier he believes himself to be, took money I gave him and used it to his personal benefit and offered me zero explanation.


Tosin, I was under the assumption that your lawyer had reviewed the books and concluded there was ZERO stealing. Which I firmly believe. You also have to realize by unleashing your fury and not allowing another person to explain themselves, is completely shattering their ability to provide for their family and do what they’re good at. There is so much more to this.


----------



## StevenC

Who knew we'd get the thread of the year in January? And it's a thread from 2015? Unprecedented!


----------



## frank falbo

I respect Tosin as an artist, musician, and his skills as a guitarist. I regret the fact it didn’t work out between us. 

For me to properly respond I would have to say something negative about Tosin and I’m not willing to do so at this time. I am a man of good character. I’m a good person and I don’t think I deserve this. 

There are false and misleading statements here, and a lot of details carefully and intentionally left out, invoices omitted...Those that choose to believe it, will. Those who don’t, won’t. I am fully aware of Tosin’s popularity and influence. But I’m not going to use this platform to say negative things about them at this time. 

I won’t get into the details of it but a settlement was reached awhile ago and signed by both parties. We signed it in good faith. I’m surprised that Tosin is now using this forum as a platform to say these things, as well as the accompanying character assasination.


----------



## diagrammatiks

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Tosin, I was under the assumption that your lawyer had reviewed the books and concluded there was ZERO stealing. Which I firmly believe. You also have to realize by unleashing your fury and not allowing another person to explain themselves, is completely shattering their ability to provide for their family and do what they’re good at. There is so much more to this.



hey now. don't worry about that. situations like this have happened like a million times. trust that as long as frank keeps building guitars someone will buy them


----------



## Fred the Shred

Personally, the moment you agree on the terms on which the separation is to take place, you are to act in good faith towards the whole ordeal. I understand how the whole thing has to have been utterly frustrating for all parts involved, but this sort of behaviour is quite uncalled for, to be honest.

Facts are enough for people to reach their own conclusions with how the first incarnation came along, namely the massive difference in quality between what one would expect from Falbo and what was rushed with subpar QC and some nasty oversights on what is presented and priced as high end instruments. Whether this is due to unrealistic demands or overconfidence or simply lack of care on the other or even anything in between is not known. What is relevant is that the company and Frank went their separate ways and they're doing their own thing, and I can't for the life of me understand why this has devolved into personal drama, complete with screenshots of a suspended eviction notice and whatnot.


----------



## narad

Guys don't recognize viral marketing when you see it. This is just promotion for a no-holds-bar cage match at namm.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the burden of proof lies on falbo at this point. I find it interesting how this white knight poster made an account solely to defend falbo, and goes on to say that there was no stealing etc, yet offers no actual evidence to bolster such a claim. 


narad said:


> Guys don't recognize viral marketing when you see it. This is just promotion for a no-holds-bar cage match at name.


I wonder if they'd do a Hell in the Cell with Vik too..


----------



## animalsasleader

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Tosin, I was under the assumption that your lawyer had reviewed the books and concluded there was ZERO stealing. Which I firmly believe.



Unless you've spoken to our lawyers or Frank is feeding you more bullshit right now, I don't know where you're getting this info from... but it's wrong. 



IntegrityIsEverything said:


> You also have to realize by unleashing your fury and not allowing another person to explain themselves, is completely shattering their ability to provide for their family and do what they’re good at. There is so much more to



I literally gave Frank equity in Abasi Concepts and promoted Falbo as a luthier that I honestly believed could rival Ibanez. Generous? Very. Naive? Unfortunately. Ask yourself what incentive I would have to myself or my business to be publicly engaging in any of this right now? Frank is free to explain himself, the same way he "explained" away all the buffing compound and cosmetic flaws of previous builds. People on this forum are very smart and don't deserve to be taken advantage of. 

Spare me the victim narrative on Frank's behalf. He stole from me. All of this has been transpiring since Spring of last year and I've kept it all contained. That time is over.


----------



## odibrom

personal EDIT: one can't post fast enough now...


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

animalsasleader said:


> Unless you've spoken to our lawyers or Frank is feeding you more bullshit right now, I don't know where you're getting this info from... but it's wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> I literally gave Frank equity in Abasi Concepts and promoted Falbo as a luthier that I honestly believed could rival Ibanez. Generous? Very. Naive? Unfortunately. Ask yourself what incentive I would have to myself or my business to be publicly engaging in any of this right now? Frank is free to explain himself, the same way he "explained" away all the buffing compound and cosmetic flaws of previous builds. People on this forum are very smart and don't deserve to be taken advantage of.
> 
> Spare me the victim narrative on Frank's behalf. He stole from me. All of this has been transpiring since Spring of last year and I've kept it all contained. That time is over.


“OK, Tosin”. Enjoy your life.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

animalsasleader said:


> Unless you've spoken to our lawyers or Frank is feeding you more bullshit right now, I don't know where you're getting this info from... but it's wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> I literally gave Frank equity in Abasi Concepts and promoted Falbo as a luthier that I honestly believed could rival Ibanez. Generous? Very. Naive? Unfortunately. *Ask yourself what incentive I would have to myself or my business to be publicly engaging in any of this right now?* Frank is free to explain himself, the same way he "explained" away all the buffing compound and cosmetic flaws of previous builds. People on this forum are very smart and don't deserve to be taken advantage of.
> 
> Spare me the victim narrative on Frank's behalf. He stole from me. All of this has been transpiring since Spring of last year and I've kept it all contained. That time is over.



You're pissed that Frank is working on a multiscale ergo. I'm curious, are you in breach of your settlement agreement posting this?


----------



## MF_Kitten

So long story short, it's Mike Sherman/Roter/BRJ all over again. Nice.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

MF_Kitten said:


> So long story short, it's Mike Sherman/Roter/BRJ all over again. Nice.


Not really, Frank's still here.


----------



## GunpointMetal

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> You also have to realize by unleashing your fury and not allowing another person to explain themselves, is completely shattering their ability to provide for their family and do what they’re good at. There is so much more to this.


Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If thousands of dollars was missing and my work was subpar on top of it, you can bet my boss would put me in a position to find a new a way to provide for myself and others. But, people are still ordering Etherial guitars, so there's always someone looking to wait a really long time for something handmade, even if the person making it has a shoddy track record.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Also, sorry, you alleged embezzlement... You paid Falbo Designs, LLC, right? 

Or did you not pay? Cause I've heard both.


----------



## MF_Kitten

GunpointMetal said:


> Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If thousands of dollars was missing and my work was subpar on top of it, you can bet my boss would put me in a position to find a new a way to provide for myself and others. But, people are still ordering Etherial guitars, so there's always someone looking to wait a really long time for something handmade, even if the person making it has a shoddy track record.


I keep seeing S7G at NAMM, and they still look like play-doh.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

I’m wondering if the surveillance video will ever be released of Tosin’s guys going into to the factory in the middle of the night, stealing the guitars that were almost finished. The driver’s face is visible as well. I’m also wondering if they will ever return the other items that were stolen.


----------



## arsonist

I'd like to avoid any illusion of taking sides, but with all due respect, why make all of this public now? Why not simply take this to court, recover as much damage as possible, then move on?
I understand the sentiment that you (Tosin) feel that you've been stolen from, and that might well be the case. But why make this public, and why now?


----------



## odibrom

... shit + fan (no frets here) = ???


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

KnightBrolaire said:


> the burden of proof lies on falbo at this point. I find it interesting how this white knight poster made an account solely to defend falbo, and goes on to say that there was no stealing etc, yet offers no actual evidence to bolster such a claim.
> 
> I wonder if they'd do a Hell in the Cell with Vik too..



It’s not my place to offer any evidence, if Frank wishes to do so, he will. I’m just really disgusted at how ugly this has gotten.


----------



## diagrammatiks

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> It’s not my place to offer any evidence, if Frank wishes to do so, he will. I’m just really disgusted at how ugly this has gotten.



It’s pretty tame right now. I mean one side has facts. The other side has an unseen oceans 11 style heist video.


----------



## diagrammatiks

dbl


----------



## cardinal

I'd vote for locking this up at this point. @MaxOfMetal 

Abasi made its statement. Frank Falbo made his. Now there is a new anonymous poster indicating some vague inside knowledge but playing coy. Comments from the peanut gallery at best are irrelevant and at worst will egg the principals into saying something that just makes it worse.


----------



## Darthphineas

ElysianGuitars said:


> You're pissed that Frank is working on a multiscale ergo. I'm curious, are you in breach of your settlement agreement posting this?





arsonist said:


> I'd like to avoid any illusion of taking sides, but with all due respect, why make all of this public now?




these two comments stick out to me, in as much as it can appear that none of that history was brought up... UNTIL... Falbo made the ergo guitar. whatever gripes one party has with the other, valid or not, they seem to have been contained until someone felt someone else got out of their lane. whatever the "details of the settlement" might be, it appears there was no NDA in place.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Siggevaio said:


> You guys are probably the biggest idiots in this thread. If Falbo wants to speak, let him speak, it's not like Tosin is coming with accusations while Falbo's mouth is taped shut. Now you're acting like Tosin is a big bully and you're the big brothers of poor little Falbo, it's truly pathetic.


The biggest idiot in this thread is the one who has openly slandered, likely in breach of a settlement agreement.


----------



## animalsasleader

frank falbo said:


> I respect Tosin as an artist, musician, and his skills as a guitarist. I regret the fact it didn’t work out between us.
> 
> For me to properly respond I would have to say something negative about Tosin and I’m not willing to do so at this time. I am a man of good character. I’m a good person and I don’t think I deserve this.
> 
> There are false and misleading statements here, and a lot of details carefully and intentionally left out, invoices omitted...Those that choose to believe it, will. Those who don’t, won’t. I am fully aware of Tosin’s popularity and influence. But I’m not going to use this platform to say negative things about them at this time.
> 
> I won’t get into the details of it but a settlement was reached awhile ago and signed by both parties. We signed it in good faith. I’m surprised that Tosin is now using this forum as a platform to say these things, as well as the accompanying character assasination.


 
You wouldn't have to say anything negative at all. That is a deflection and an attempt to appear more virtuous than me. The settlement occurred because even after failing to account for all of the missing money, and failing to pay your shop rent, all while hiding the imminent eviction from us and risking the entirety of the orders to seizure,_ you refused to willingly leave the company and go your own way_. 

Instead you leveraged your "shares in ABASI" and made me lawyer up to be free of you. You are not an honest person simply because you type the word out. 




frank falbo said:


> There are false and misleading statements here, and a lot of details carefully and intentionally left out, invoices omitted....



Frank. We have not mislead anyone. All of our assertions are substantiated. We can post further evidence if you'd like? You have my email and my phone number and home address. I would more than welcome an explanation to the missing money in the form receipts. If you are as innocent as you claim, this can be cleared up very simply and privately at which point i'll issue a public apology and write you a song... with vocals.


----------



## smsnyc88

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> I’m wondering if the surveillance video will ever be released of Tosin’s guys going into to the factory in the middle of the night, stealing the guitars that were almost finished. The driver’s face is visible as well. I’m also wondering if they will ever return the other items that were stolen.






IntegrityIsEverything said:


> It’s not my place to offer any evidence, if Frank wishes to do so, he will. I’m just really disgusted at how ugly this has gotten.



Don't mean to sound like a prick but you kinda added to the "ugliness". Is there any proof or anything useful you can offer to this thread? Its sounds like all hearsay at this point.


----------



## axxessdenied

arsonist said:


> I'd like to avoid any illusion of taking sides, but with all due respect, why make all of this public now? Why not simply take this to court, recover as much damage as possible, then move on?
> I understand the sentiment that you (Tosin) feel that you've been stolen from, and that might well be the case. But why make this public, and why now?


Check out the Falbo Instagram. His latest guitar looks awfully similar. I think that might have been the catalyst to Tosin's post?


----------



## arsonist

axxessdenied said:


> Check out the Falbo Instagram. His latest guitar looks awfully similar. I think that might have been the catalyst to Tosin's post?



I guess it's just speculation until Tosin actually says it. He went close to saying it in reference to Falbo's new ERG endeavours, but didn't quite explicitely say this.


----------



## BuckarooBanzai

cardinal said:


> I'd vote for locking this up at this point. @MaxOfMetal
> 
> Abasi made its statement. Frank Falbo made his. Now there is a new anonymous poster indicating some vague inside knowledge but playing coy. Comments from the peanut gallery at best are irrelevant and at worst will egg the principals into saying something that just makes it worse.



No rules are being broken and this is saving lawyer fees by making deposition/discovery easier, not to mention it's entertaining. I vote we keep it open. After all, Frank deserves the chance to substantiate his claims and exonerate himself in the court of public opinion.


----------



## StevenC

ElysianGuitars said:


> The biggest idiot in this thread is the one who has openly slandered, likely in breach of a settlement agreement.


Worth noting, you've definitely slandered in this thread as well.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

smsnyc88 said:


> Don't mean to sound like a prick but you kinda added to the "ugliness". Is there any proof or anything useful you can offer to this thread? Its sounds like all hearsay at this point.


I’m actually hoping it gets Frank off his ass to post some actual details, regardless of how bad it makes the other party look.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

axxessdenied said:


> Check out the Falbo Instagram. His latest guitar looks awfully similar. I think that might have been the catalyst to Tosin's post?


yeah, but to be fair there have been chinese knockoffs of the design since it was an ibby prototype, and drinkwater made a few guitars that had a similar shape (at customer's request iirc). I don't think the shape itself is so much the issue as the fact that falbo is trying to make them on his own.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

StevenC said:


> Worth noting, you've definitely slandered in this thread as well.


http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...-out-frank-falbo.302983/page-107#post-4959850

This is a thing that actually exists.


----------



## smsnyc88

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> I’m actually hoping it gets Frank off his ass to post some actual details, regardless of how bad it makes the other party look.


Why is that so important to you? Frank will do what he will. I don't see how your input helps his case in anyway besides making him and this situation look bad.


----------



## Solodini

axxessdenied said:


> Check out the Falbo Instagram. His latest guitar looks awfully similar. I think that might have been the catalyst to Tosin's post?



I can see how seeing Frank advertising similar instruments would, if all is to be believed, lead one to choose to inform those who would be interested in putting money into a Falbo ERGo guitar, when doing so didn't seem relevant beforehand. I probably wouldn't disclose every negative interaction publicly, unless it seemed relevant to the context. When a relevant context comes up, yeah, I'd probably mention issues to the people it pertains to.


----------



## animalsasleader

ElysianGuitars said:


> The biggest idiot in this thread is the one who has openly slandered, likely in breach of a settlement agreement.



It's painfully obvious that you're a mouthpiece for Frank. I happen to know this because Frank told me about you "helping" him deflect the quality control issues after NAMM. You do you realize that anyone on this thread can scroll back to your posts and see a uncanny consistent and blind support for all things Falbo? By the way, it was MY LAWYERS who drafted that settlement, I know more about it than you. Give it a rest.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ElysianGuitars said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...-out-frank-falbo.302983/page-107#post-4959850
> 
> This is a thing that actually exists.


then send us a link for the video. why are there no police reports of the theft? is it still theft if abasi funded the building of the guitars?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

animalsasleader said:


> It's painfully obvious that you're a mouthpiece for Frank. I happen to know this because Frank told me about you "helping" him deflect the quality control issues after NAMM. You do you realize that anyone on this thread can scroll back to your posts and see a uncanny consistent and blind support for all things Falbo? *By the way, it was MY LAWYERS who drafted that settlement, I know more about it than you. Give it a rest.*


So what does it say, with regards to disclosure?

How dare I try to help your brand, by sharing knowledge of my experience with building guitars that make it to NAMM. I wasn't just trying to help Frank.

I hope you don't think you're going to pull the shit you pulled with Frank with Grover.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

KnightBrolaire said:


> then send us a link for the video. why are there no police reports of the theft? is it still theft if abasi funded the building of the guitars?


There is a police report. Tosin knows this.


----------



## migstopheles

All this slanging has done is guarantee I'll never buy anything from either party


----------



## StevenC

ElysianGuitars said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...-out-frank-falbo.302983/page-107#post-4959850
> 
> This is a thing that actually exists.


Probably hard to argue that taking things you've paid for, that are about to be seized otherwise, is stealing from Frank. 

However you've called Tosin a liar and theif a couple times, without anything substantiated. There's been quite a bit of evidence posted on one side.


----------



## Pyrocario

Regardless of what’s happened, it’s obvious that Frank has completely dropped the ball on the initial arrangement. Whether that be taking on more than he could handle or other circumstances (thankfully before it got out of hand), it’s not for us to determine. 

As far as I’m concerned, Tosin and Ivan have done the right thing and refunded all builds via Frank and moved onto a new builder that they believe will bring their vision to life. 

At the end of the day, we all just want to play on great gear and unfortunately these things happen on our way to that.


----------



## BuckarooBanzai

The Abasi camp has come forward with a coherent narrative and substantiating evidence. The other crew has a few people taking potshots and using weasely language devoid of context to paint Tosin in a bad light. Where are the specific refutations of anything Tosin has said?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

StevenC said:


> Probably hard to argue that taking things you've paid for, that are about to be seized otherwise, is stealing from Frank.
> 
> However you've called Tosin a liar and theif a couple times, without anything substantiated. There's been quite a bit of evidence posted on one side.


Vague screenshots?

An eviction notice that was never actually executed?

If that's what passes as evidence, wow.

If he had a stake in Abasi Concepts, LLC (registered in Deleware), would he be able to operate under that LLC, even if Falbo Designs, LLC was suspended?


----------



## RustInPeace

Y'all need Cthulhu


----------



## arsonist

ElysianGuitars said:


> Vague screenshots?
> 
> An eviction notice that was never actually executed?
> 
> If that's what passes as evidence, wow.



I think most people are just saying that that is still more than what you have provided (i.e. nothing).


----------



## ElysianGuitars

arsonist said:


> I think most people are just saying that that is still more than what you have provided (i.e. nothing).


You're right, slightly more than nothing is more than nothing. It's not my place to post Frank's evidence, but I do know it's out there. This level of character assassination is serious, and shouldn't only have one side of the story. I don't believe there's room for the high road with the severity of these allegations.


----------



## MF_Kitten

Y'all better shut up and consult your lawyers, man.


----------



## cwhitey2

arsonist said:


> I think most people are just saying that that is still more than what you have provided (i.e. nothing).


Agreed.

I also want to hear "Frank's side"...and I'm running out of coffee


----------



## Albake21

ElysianGuitars said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...-out-frank-falbo.302983/page-107#post-4959850
> 
> This is a thing that actually exists.


I'm missing the part where this is stealing.... Tosin funded everything, therefore it's his property to take back before the eviction.


----------



## Gadjet

The longer this sh*tstorm goes on, the more both brands will get damaged. In this scenario, no one is going to win.


----------



## Randy

cardinal said:


> I'd vote for locking this up at this point.



I'm inclined to leave the thread open, just like we've kept the Vik and BRJ threads open. Everyone has a right to give their side and to air the information openly and honestly. All parties have the right to stop doing so at any time (which may be wise).

This thread is locked as of RIGHT NOW because there's a pile of personal attacks and bullshit that need to be weeded through, and ya'll need to know that won't be tolerated. Also, if an offending post pops up, you report it, you DO NOT engage them because you make the job twice as difficult. This thread will re opened once I've had a chance to prune it. In the meantime, everyone should take a breather and rethink what they're doing on here.


----------



## Randy

*Alright, deep breath everyone. 

Thread's getting reopened for now, reminder again about the name calling and ad hominem. I know everybody wants to get their shots in but unless you're contributing something of value to the thread, maybe consider reading along and staying out of it or taking it to PM.*


----------



## arsonist

ElysianGuitars said:


> I don't believe there's room for the high road with the severity of these allegations.



You're totally right, and Frank should understand that too. This isn't a question of someone's character being judged or slandered; it's an accusation of crimes, in which case a "high road" does not exist. Imagine a thief goes on trial and in his "defense" says he'd prefer to refrain from saying anything as her prefers to "take the high road".


----------



## ElysianGuitars

arsonist said:


> You're totally right, and Frank should understand that too. This isn't a question of someone's character being judged or slandered; it's an accusation of crimes, in which case a "high road" does not exist. Imagine a thief goes on trial and in his "defense" says he'd prefer to refrain from saying anything as her prefers to "take the high road".


I'd prefer not to liken Frank to a thief 

Clearly some of my posts responding to specific insults have stepped over the line, thanks Randy for cleaning that up without bringing down the ban hammer. I've said more than enough in this thread, and hope that Frank does what it takes to clear his name here. I've been too personally involved in Abasi since the very start, having been the person to leak the website to Knightbrolaire at the very beginning. I've known a lot behind the scenes, and it's hard to separate my feelings on this, so I will bow out of this thread. I hope Frank's side of the story is properly told.


----------



## atyourlasthourrr

ElysianGuitars said:


> You're right, slightly more than nothing is more than nothing. It's not my place to post Frank's evidence, but I do know it's out there. This level of character assassination is serious, and shouldn't only have one side of the story. I don't believe there's room for the high road with the severity of these allegations.



I just don't understand what "evidence" can possibly even exist unless there was blatant sabotage on Tosin's end which would make no sense what so ever considering the endeavor and the fact that people were actually refunded.


----------



## MFB

ElysianGuitars said:


> I've known a lot behind the scenes, and it's hard to separate my feelings on this, so I will bow out of this thread. I hope Frank's side of the story is properly told.



Only thing I'll say about _any _of this situation is good on you for being able to realize it and bowing out instead of digging your heels in


----------



## arsonist

ElysianGuitars said:


> I'd prefer not to liken Frank to a thief



Just to be clear: what I said was an analogy and I'd in NO way even imply that about Frank.


----------



## smoothcanvas

where one door closes, another opens. I’m stoked to see where abasi concepts lands in the future.


atyourlasthourrr said:


> I just don't understand what "evidence" can possibly even exist unless there was blatant sabotage on Tosin's end which would make no sense what so ever considering the endeavor and the fact that people were actually refunded.



Agreed.


----------



## wannabguitarist

When was the last big luthier meltdown? It's always disappointing when this happens; especially with long time member of community, or individuals with a track record of actually doing good work



Albake21 said:


> I'm missing the part where this is stealing.... Tosin funded everything, therefore it's his property to take back before the eviction.



Just FYI dealing with shared assets, evictions, and all that stuff is _just a little _more complicated than going into the building after hours and taking what you funded from the other business partner. There's a reason why that stuff is usually handled by the courts, lawyers, and accountants


----------



## MF_Kitten

wannabguitarist said:


> When was the last big luthier meltdown? It's always disappointing when this happens; especially with long time member of community, or individuals with a track record of actually doing good work
> 
> 
> 
> Just FYI dealing with shared assets, evictions, and all that stuff is _just a little _more complicated than going into the building after hours and taking what you funded from the other business partner. There's a reason why that stuff is usually handled by the courts, lawyers, and accountants


Very true, though I'm not sure it would be better for anyone if they just let cops come and take it all.


----------



## Randy

wannabguitarist said:


> When was the last big luthier meltdown? It's always disappointing when this happens; especially with long time member of community, or individuals with a track record of actually doing good work



I personally don't find anyone to be beyond redemption, though.

I mean, the accusations in this thread (in both directions) are especially virulent and eventually everyone will need to atone for them, but I think it's a mistake to take coming forward with an accusation as being 'bang! you're dead', you know? It was a messy relationship with a messy divorce, and we're in the midst of the worst of it. At some point, everyone's said their piece and, most likely, the lawyers will resolve this.

The thread is fine as a 'buyer beware" regarding the current situation, but I'd stop short of deciding how I feel about everyone involved, forever and always, based on what's said when everyone's feeling their worst. Good people make dumb mistakes, nice people say mean things, etc. It's a good thing to keep in mind because I get the vibe a lot of people are posturing themselves in this thread like it's a matter of 'life or death' when it isn't.


----------



## StevenC

wannabguitarist said:


> When was the last big luthier meltdown? It's always disappointing when this happens; especially with long time member of community, or individuals with a track record of actually doing good work


We have a thread for the weekly Kiesel drama, but before that maybe Sabre and Claas. The last really big one I remember was Vik.


----------



## Albake21

StevenC said:


> We have a thread for the weekly Kiesel drama, but before that maybe Sabre and Claas. The last really big one I remember was Vik.


To be fair, that's just a Matias complaining thread.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

wannabguitarist said:


> When was the last big luthier meltdown?



Probably Sabre Guitars but thats because it got so drawn out. Thats usually the biggest issue, people are strung along for years with empty promises until the builder disappears. Its a long list of builders by now.


----------



## olsonuf

The burden of proof is on Frank at this point. That empty posturing didn’t actually say anything.


----------



## Hollowway

Just another luthier not delivering, and coming up with excuses. I don’t know all the facts, but I know enough. There were photos of the flaws, and there is enough evidence to show that deadlines were missed, IP was stolen or heavily borrowed, etc. So far to me this sounds exactly like BRJ, Sherman, Decibel, etc, where people were defending him, but ultimately it was clear that they made off with a bunch of money from people. I wish I could have gotten into BRJ’s shop after it was locked up, and gotten my guitar. Instead, they sold off the remaining ones, and then sold them to others. I’ve lost money to a number of luthiers, and the time, health, one-man-ship, good-guy excuses all come up. Frankly, I don’t give a shit. I expect a guitar or a refund. No ill will to any party involved, but as a customer I have a hard time saying that I should be the one left holding the bag. I will say good on Tosin for refunding those who had deposits.


----------



## animalsasleader

#facts


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

It’s very clear that deadlines were missed and the job was much more expensive than anticipated. But Frank clearly worked on these guitars for many months and deserves to get something for that. He did not embezzle, so Tosin you should choose your words carefully. And if things were going south, why did you have to have Frank’s workers sneak in in the middle of the night to steal these guitars? They were week from being done. And tell Ben it would be nice if he would return the guitar that was not his, it was given to Frank as a gift. Among other things.. I have to refresh and read the police report.


----------



## olsonuf

“You should choose your words carefully”

:immediately accuses people of stealing their own property:


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

olsonuf said:


> “You should choose your words carefully”
> 
> :immediately accuses people of stealing their own property:


Wasn’t completely paid for.


----------



## Albake21

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> It’s very clear that deadlines were missed and the job was much more expensive than anticipated. But Frank clearly worked on these guitars for many months and deserves to get something for that. He did not embezzle, so Tosin you should choose your words carefully. And if things were going south, why did you have to have Frank’s workers sneak in in the middle of the night to steal these guitars? They were week from being done. And tell Ben it would be nice if he would return the guitar that was not his, it was given to Frank as a gift. Among other things.. I have to refresh and read the police report.


Deserves what? He was paid "X" amount, but didn't deliver what was discussed for that amount. This is a business, not a peewee sports league where everyone is a winner and gets a trophy.


----------



## olsonuf

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Wasn’t completely paid for.



Or those that were paid for, accounted for, sounds like. Keep digging deeper though.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

olsonuf said:


> Or those that were paid for, accounted for, sounds like. Keep digging deeper though.


Pretty sure you could get a copy of the police report if you wanted.


----------



## olsonuf

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Pretty sure you could get a copy of the police report if you wanted.



Was someone arrested or am I missing something? A police report is merely a record that someone came in and complained to them. It’s not evidence of a crime. How naïve do you think the people reading this really are? You call it stealing and go to the police but that doesn’t make it stealing especially when everything was funded by someone else who did the supposed “stealing”. Recovering your own property hardly qualifies as stealing. 

Is your screen name supposed to be a joke? It sure is rather ironic.


----------



## Jonathan20022

It's out in the public eye now, and I'm no judge but I'm far more sympathetic to Tosin and Co. after reading all this and seeing all the information displayed. You're clearly buddy buddy with Frank, and that's all good but why don't you let him speak for himself instead of (like clockwork) create a new account with the sole purpose of defending someone who's now in the red? In my eyes you're not helping in any way @IntegrityIsEverything, and this almost makes me feel like we need some kind of post minimum before letting new accounts chime into certain sections and threads, to plainly avoid this. 

I'm very glad I avoided this trainwreck since I was impressed and wanted to order one after last years' NAMM, but this has got to be one of the worst situations I've ever seen unfold since joining here. I also like how this footage of Tosin's property getting taken back is being dangled as some kind of nail in the coffin for Abasi's case when Falbo clearly has defended and withheld information about spending of the original lump sum given to him. Did he sub to some porn sites or buy some embarrassing bullshit he doesn't want to reveal? It's far more believable that he's being defensive about the amount spent on materials because that would reveal some information he doesn't want out there.

If Frank hadn't dropped the ball things wouldn't have devolved in this manner in the first place, so consider that before jumping to his defense and incessantly talking FOR him. This is just another case of an extremely overeager and talented luthier biting off more than they can chew, he gave himself less than two months to complete 51 guitars, just take a smaller batch or increase the estimated time and DO IT. I understand your head rush when you get a 5 figure check in one go, but man it's like a repeated and very stupid mistake that keeps happening.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

olsonuf said:


> Was someone arrested or am I missing something? A police report is merely a record that someone came in and complained to them. It’s not evidence of a crime. How naïve do you think the people reading this really are? You call it stealing and go to the police but that doesn’t make it stealing especially when everything was funded by someone else who did the supposed “stealing”. Recovering your own property hardly qualifies as stealing.
> 
> Is your screen name supposed to be a joke? It sure is rather ironic.


Tosin minion: The two parties clearly had issues with each other and were unable to work together. Isn’t it just strange though, that if he knew he was right, he had to go in the middle of the night and pull a heist?


----------



## RustInPeace

He seems to be a Very In Knowledge person


----------



## ramses

olsonuf said:


> Was someone arrested or am I missing something? A police report is merely a record that someone came in and complained to them. It’s not evidence of a crime. How naïve do you think the people reading this really are? You call it stealing and go to the police but that doesn’t make it stealing especially when everything was funded by someone else who did the supposed “stealing”. Recovering your own property hardly qualifies as stealing.
> 
> Is your screen name supposed to be a joke? It sure is rather ironic.



Moreover, he is accusing of dishonesty the party that made sure that customers were refunded.


----------



## Albake21

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Tosin minion: The two parties clearly had issues with each other and were unable to work together. Isn’t it just strange though, that if he knew he was right, he had to go in the middle of the night and pull a heist?


Wasn't it the night before the eviction of getting kicked out and taking everything in the shop? If so, no it's not strange at all. He did what he had to do to get his property before the eviction and taking of his property.


----------



## Randy

Hollowway said:


> Frankly, I don’t give a shit.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

Albake21 said:


> Wasn't it the night before the eviction of getting kicked out and taking everything in the shop? If so, no it's not strange at all. He did what he had to do to get his property before the eviction and taking of his property.



No. Rent was paid and he is still in his shop.


----------



## olsonuf

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Tosin minion: The two parties clearly had issues with each other and were unable to work together. Isn’t it just strange though, that if he knew he was right, he had to go in the middle of the night and pull a heist?



Issues like “What happened all the money we gave you?“ And “screw you I’m not telling you anything.“ You mean issues like that? That would create an issue among any two parties. Having just found out about this thread and situation today just from what you, Frank, and Tosin have said here, it’s not looking good for your side of this argument. 

If your purpose in being here is to try to save Frank‘s reputation, you’re failing miserably at it. All you’re doing is flinging very flimsy counter accusations and not providing anything that would make the general public think that you and your company are in anyway trustworthy. 

Hmm...Why might someone go in the middle the night? To avoid confrontation with a clearly irresponsible reckless person maybe? Because that’s what Frank seems to be right now in this situation.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

olsonuf said:


> Issues like “What happened all the money we gave you?“ And “screw you I’m not telling you anything.“ You mean issues like that? That would create an issue among any two parties. Having just found out about this thread and situation today just from what you, Frank, and Tosin have said here, it’s not looking good for your side of this argument.
> 
> If your purpose in being here is to try to save Frank‘s reputation, you’re failing miserably at it. All you’re doing is flinging very flimsy counter accusations and not providing anything that would make the general public think that you and your company are in anyway trustworthy.
> 
> Hmm...Why might someone go in the middle the night? To avoid confrontation with a clearly irresponsible reckless person maybe? Because that’s what Frank seems to be right now in this situation.


Ben or other Frank worker - is this you?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> It’s very clear that deadlines were missed and the job was much more expensive than anticipated. But Frank clearly worked on these guitars for many months and deserves to get something for that. He did not embezzle, so Tosin you should choose your words carefully. And if things were going south, why did you have to have Frank’s workers sneak in in the middle of the night to steal these guitars? They were week from being done. And tell Ben it would be nice if he would return the guitar that was not his, it was given to Frank as a gift. Among other things.. I have to refresh and read the police report.


so since you claim to have access to this police report, how about uploading it here for the rest of us to see?


----------



## olsonuf

KnightBrolaire said:


> so since you claim to have access to this police report, how about uploading it here for the rest of us to see?



That would be substantiating something what he seems unwilling to do.


----------



## Sephiroth952

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Ben or other Frank worker - is this you?


You seem Very In on the Knowledge shown here, why don't you say who you are?


----------



## olsonuf

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Ben or other Frank worker - is this you?



No, believe it or not I’m just some dude on this site who has been here for over a decade, among the general guitar-buying public seeing this fiasco unfold, that your buddy Frank seems to have created, being legitimately affected in my opinion by the overwhelmingly detailed version of the story on one side and the vague and convenient backpedaling on the other.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

olsonuf said:


> That would be substantiating something what he seems unwilling to do.


yep, apparently we're just supposed to take them at their word, instead of going based off of actual evidence..


----------



## Albake21

KnightBrolaire said:


> yep, apparently we're just supposed to take them at their word, instead of going based off of actual evidence..


Actual evidence?? What are you crazy?


----------



## GunpointMetal

*Has name and multiple web links in sig line*

ARE YOU THIS RANDOM DUDE I DON'T LIKE?!


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## Fretless

KnightBrolaire said:


> so since you claim to have access to this police report, how about uploading it here for the rest of us to see?


If only it were that easy to get a police report. Shoot, I worked right next to people who handled that kind of release of information, and you had to go through so many hoops just to get a redacted form. If there were any active investigation going on it, you better believe that the public would not have access to it yet. So until I see an actual police report, I will stand with my belief that there may have been a report filed, but not one that is public releasable and or complete.

(I should also mention that I worked in a Sheriff's Office for 5 years)


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Albake21 said:


> Actual evidence?? What are you crazy?


yep you got me, I like logic and evidence. I'm clearly 


Fretless said:


> If only it were that easy to get a police report. Shoot, I worked right next to people who handles that kind of release of information, and you had to go through so many hoops just to get a redacted form. If there were any active investigation going on it, you better believe that the public would not have access yet to it. So until I see an actual police report, I will stand with my belief that there may have been a report filed, but not one that is public releasable and or complete.
> 
> (I should also mention that I worked in a Sheriff's Office for 5 years)


they literally claimed they had access to the report in some form or another in their post. It's not entirely unreasonable to assume that in this modern day they could upload the report for us to see it. Of course that whole argument rests on them actually having access to the report instead of just leading us on.


----------



## olsonuf

GunpointMetal said:


> *Has name and multiple web links in sig line*
> 
> ARE YOU THIS RANDOM DUDE I DON'T LIKE?!



LMAO! See how dicking people over makes someone paranoid?


----------



## Fretless

KnightBrolaire said:


> they literally claimed they had access to the report in some form or another in their post. It's not entirely unreasonable to assume that in this modern day they could upload the report for us to see it. Of course that whole argument rests on them actually having access to the report instead of just leading us on.


I for one would be interested in reading this supposed document.


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

I’m actually done commenting. I probably know too much and have said too much, and it won’t do any good.


----------



## axxessdenied

This thread is still delivering!

Hopefully Abasi still does well.
Maybe Frank can come back from this. Who knows.
I think Tosin made a bad business decision and he's learning a difficult lesson here. There is a lot of frustration and stress involved when a lot of money is at stake. Having personally experienced some interesting life events I can say for a fact money problems are one of the most stressful things to deal with no matter how hard you try to let it not get to you.

More small guys succeeding is better for us as consumers. It creates competition, lowers prices and improves overall quality. We don't wanna only have fender and Gibson to pick from. Variety is great. 

I think Frank made a bad decision launching a new line of guitars that seem to resemble the Abasi Concepts. 

I don't fully agree with how things are transpiring. But, as a consumer I do want to know what is going on with companies so there is that. 

Plus... Drama is hard to look away from. It's like driving by a massive car accident lol


----------



## Albake21

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> I’m actually done commenting. I probably know too much and have said too much, and it won’t do any good.


So basically you back out once everyone is asking for any, if at all, evidence. Got it.


----------



## Sephiroth952

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> I’m actually done commenting. I probably know too much and have said too much, and it won’t do any good.


Well clearly this is a small ViKtory for the thread, but a loss of getting further information.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

fascinating how the second we start clamoring for access to the police report, the white knight shill poster declares they're going to stop posting.


----------



## stevexc

Sephiroth952 said:


> Well clearly this is a small ViKtory for the thread, but a loss of getting further information.


i was losing my head reading those repliess


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Given how Fishman can't afford barely-decent customer service, I'm not surprised Frank can't afford to build a line of guitars.




I know Frank doesn't own fishman, I just wanted a reason to bitch about their customer service.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Given how Fishman can't afford barely-decent customer service, I'm not surprised Frank can't afford to build a line of guitars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know Frank doesn't own fishman, I just wanted a reason to bitch about their customer service.


totally off topic, but they also have some of the worst wiring diagrams i've ever had to reference.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> I’m actually done commenting. I probably know too much and have said too much, and it won’t do any good.


I'm disappointed that someone someone so Very In the Know would bow out without proof.


----------



## mastapimp

So this whole "heist" situation i keep hearing Frank's side mention is not sitting well with me. I work w/ contract manufacturers and there's been times when we've had to seize unfinished goods to have them completed elsewhere due to missed deadlines or quality issues. If we pay for the parts and have a contract, it's our property and can be returned to us at our discretion. If i see a warning posted on the storefront (without a heads up from the business) stating that property will be seized upon eviction, you sure as hell better bet i'm getting my hands back on the parts that were paid for as soon as possible. 

Plus the whole "I'm no longer affiliated with Abasi Concepts, but here's my fanned fret ERG Abasi Concepts derivative, Happy 2019!" post is just a slap in the face after the behind the scenes drama has played out. I don't think Tosin's reputation is getting tarnished here...it's all looking bad for Falbo from what I've gathered.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Like clockwork 

Post the police report, it'll substantiate your claims. Just like Franks receipts will more than likely substantiate Tosin's


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

KnightBrolaire said:


> totally off topic, but they also have some of the worst wiring diagrams i've ever had to reference.



Yup. Brands like EMG shows you different diagrams. Fishman only has one diagram and you're forced to figure out everything else with written descriptions and guesswork. Kinda got tired of it so I'm pretty much going back to EMGs like I used to.  Only reason I just bought a Modern set was out of curiosity an cheapness.

Is Frank still affiliated with Fishman?


----------



## Sephiroth952

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> I'm disappointed that someone someone so Very In the Know would bow out without proof.


That kind of progressive thinking is probably lost on them.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Sephiroth952 said:


> That kind of progressive thinking is probably lost on them.


They always do the same thing, run around like a headless chicken throwing out accusations.


----------



## Randy

some people just Don't Initiate Conversation in Kosher ways; it's like I've always Nagged: Be genuine, Unite and don't divide, Treat others as you'd like to be Treated.


----------



## Hollowway

Randy said:


>



Ya, probably so.  I never know what to think, honestly. I just get super wrapped up in emotions about stuff like this, and honestly am at a loss as to how to deal with these sorts of situations. I talk a tough line but fold immediately.


----------



## Dayn

Now this is interesting. This is squarely within my area of legal expertise.

Except I'm not in the US so all I can do is watch. I hope Tosin et al get the proper assistance they need.


----------



## pondman

Sephiroth952 said:


> Well clearly this is a small ViKtory for the thread, but a loss of getting further information.



Hmmm , is there something you'd like to tell us


----------



## Demiurge

Settlement without a non-disclosure for what was evidently a very acrimonious and reputation-affecting spat, geez. I can't figure-out how to post a Lionel Hutz gif from frinkiac, so I'm out.


----------



## diagrammatiks

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> I’m actually done commenting. I probably know too much and have said too much, and it won’t do any good.



I’m very confused how through all of this you actually thought you were helping.


----------



## pondman

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> I’m actually done commenting. I probably know too much and have said too much, and it won’t do any good.



Integrity is showing who you really are, who are you ?


----------



## BigViolin

At this point there are only two aspects of this that concern me as a potential consumer and ERG fan.

1. substantial money being spent without proper accounting (alleged)

2. party that couldn't produce receipts for said money showing up here pushing a future line of guitars using designs that were clearly lifted from the originator (can't really be disputed)

Perhaps new info will come to light, and I'm trying to keep an open mind but at this point I think Tosin has every right to defend his designs and name.

Really, I wish this would have been settled out of the the public eye but as soon as Frank went public with the way too similar guitars teh door was opened.


----------



## xzacx

BigViolin said:


> Really, I wish this would have been settled out of the the public eye but as soon as Frank went public with the way too similar guitars teh door was opened.



The writing was certainly on the wall for this to get more interesting as soon as those pics were posted here. Little surprising it took so long actually.


----------



## Soya

Damn, was not expecting all of that to happen today. Is it too late for a low serial number joke?


----------



## IntegrityIsEverything

pondman said:


> Integrity is showing who you really are, who are you ?


----------



## skmanga




----------



## Quiet Coil

IntegrityIsEverything - Family, eh? Well that should elminate any question of bias right there. Certainly helped clear things up for me...


----------



## axxessdenied

Ninja edit lol


----------



## BigViolin

Wow, just making things worse....and worse.

On a side note...still reallly stoked for namm. Not for drama but GUITARS! 

GUITARS are fun!


----------



## spudmunkey

Am I the only one that didn't really see these "stolen design elements" between Frank's ergo model and the Abasi model? Or at least no more than any two other competing similarly-spec'd models.


----------



## Dayn

spudmunkey said:


> Am I the only one that didn't really see these "stolen design elements" between Frank's ergo model and the Abasi model? Or at least no more than any two other competing similarly-spec'd models.


I suppose the question isn't necessarily whether they're similar - it would be whether the designs were derived from intellectual property that they had no right to exploit for their own use.

For example, it's one thing to see an Ibanez RG and make your own, but it's another thing to see an Ibanez RG, have access to Ibanez's CAD files and settings etc and use them to make your own.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Jesus Christ Monkey Balls.

So I know I said earlier that I wasn’t going looking for the tea, but If it’s going to get spilled I’m glad it was by Tosin himself, and for as far as I can tell with the sole purpose of giving people the peace of mind to potentially buy products with his name on them in the future. I personally have been in situations where a former friend did me dirty and I understand how fine a line it is between preserving their livelihood for the sake of decency, and protecting your own livelihood at their expense. Appreciate the professionalism and thorough explanation, also appreciated the shill account laying to rest any doubt that there was much to be said to the contrary. 

Great thread, good luck going forward my dude


----------



## JoeyBTL

Out of everything I've just read on here, the main thing this situation stinks of is the SSO classic, good luthier - shit business person. All of the other dirt makes for a great soap opera but out of all of these "facts", what no one on the Falbo party has argued is that money was taken for guitars to be made by a deadline, and that deadline was not met. Tosin expressed how much he didn't want that situation to happen and its the main factor here. I'd personally like to hear of more details, but the largest portion of it seems pretty cut and dry. People on SSO have seen it so many times, anything like this sort of situation is something ABASI obviously wants to let people know that they are aware of it and want nothing to do with that type of guitar making practices.


----------



## Randy

xzacx said:


> The writing was certainly on the wall for this to get more interesting as soon as those pics were posted here. Little surprising it took so long actually.



I was supportive of the new design because my perception was that Falbo and Abasi guitars had broke things off amicably based on the way things were handled publicly.

Between the stuff about Darren and the CAD, Frank and the headstock shape, Tosin about the original concept and Ibanez making the original prototypes, I thought the design was sorta crowd/committee sourced and everyone was cool with whatever. I never thought Falbo was necessarily legitimate competition for Abasi's next phase in that perspective.

Knowing how messy things were, it definitely casts that release in a new light. Whether or not there was a NDA out of there as a result of this I have no idea but considering this was being litigated, I'd consider posting those designs and that announcement in this thread the first salvo, as opposed Tosin and Ivans statement from yesterday. Knowing what Frank knew, that was a provacative move.


----------



## StevenC

JoeyBTL said:


> Out of everything I've just read on here, the main thing this situation stinks of is the SSO classic, good luthier - shit business person. All of the other dirt makes for a great soap opera but out of all of these "facts", what no one on the Falbo party has argued is that money was taken for guitars to be made by a deadline, and that deadline was not met. Tosin expressed how much he didn't want that situation to happen and its the main factor here. I'd personally like to hear of more details, but the largest portion of it seems pretty cut and dry. People on SSO have seen it so many times, anything like this sort of situation is something ABASI obviously wants to let people know that they are aware of it and want nothing to do with that type of guitar making practices.


Either Elysian or Mr Integrity alleged Tosin hadn't paid at one point.


----------



## Dreamfullofzen

Had to sign up and comment after what I just read.

I've been out of the guitar community for a long time after seeing these toxic situations pop up so many times before (last one for me was the vertex scandal). Sadly it is amazing what some people do when money comes their way.

Sociopathic/borderline personality disorder behaviour springs right up, with the wrong doer player the victim, random new accounts advocating their innocence and then making up anything to detract from what took place....

Bottom line; if there is footage of tosin breaking in and stealing shit... Why was he not arrested? Pretty sure if said footage existed in the manner you claim.. That would be the case.. As for a police report.. Again.. If he did something wrong, and it was reported, he would have been taken into custody and charged... The only logical explanation to that is he did not break a law or commit a crime by taking his property (assuming this scenario even took place). The complaint was filed and the police, by law, reviewed it and saw no wrong doing... Which is probably why nothing has come from this unsubstantiated story... All I see is dishonest sociopathic behaviour... Something I've seen an awful lot of... Misspending of funds.. Lying about them.. Avoiding the truth, blaming others, then playing the victim.

If tosin was a dishonest or criminal person, why refund those customers? He could have simply filed bankruptcy and told them the money is gone? Many luthiers and builders have pulled that stunt before... You say he didn't fully pay for the builds/guitars... I can't imagine anyone fully paying for anything when finding out a builder has missed a deadline and has spent all the money he was given and is unable to finish... 

I could throw in a donald trump comparison but imma stop here before this post gets too long... I'll end on by saying calling yourself einstein doesn't make you a genius, and saying integrity is everything doesn't make you jesus of Nazareth....


----------



## narad

If Tosin was actually the getaway driver for nighttime burglaries in addition to his daytime gigs, he's going to be reaching heretofore unseen levels of cool.


----------



## Electric Wizard

narad said:


> If Tosin was actually the getaway driver for nighttime burglaries in addition to his daytime gigs, he's going to be reaching heretofore unseen levels of cool.


He already dresses like he's a getaway driver in a John Wick movie.


Actually is there a way to make that happen?


----------



## USMarine75

narad said:


> If Tosin was actually the getaway driver for nighttime burglaries in addition to his daytime gigs, he's going to be reaching heretofore unseen levels of cool.



They got away in @bulb 's Porsche.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Too bad. The Abasi's I have tried in Japan were pretty neat. I hope this gets settled soon.


----------



## USMarine75

MASS DEFECT said:


> Too bad. The Abasi's I have tried in Japan were pretty neat. I hope this gets settled soon.
> View attachment 66324



Good from afar, but far from good...


----------



## MASS DEFECT

I bet these ones were the ones referred to that had some work done prior to being sold in Japan.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MASS DEFECT said:


> I bet these ones were the ones referred to that had some work done prior to being sold in Japan.



Didn’t we determine that technically none of these were sold.


----------



## narad

USMarine75 said:


> Good from afar, but far from good...



When they're hanging up next to a Claas and an Acacia, it doesn't take much!


----------



## 77zark77

CTRL+D


----------



## pondman

axxessdenied said:


> Ninja edit lol



I missed it, what did he say ?


----------



## xvultures

pondman said:


> I missed it, what did he say ?



Frank's family, apparently.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

pondman said:


> I missed it, what did he say ?



Mr. intergerdy claims hes "family"


----------



## GXPO

The only family I can see commenting on Falbo guitars is 'Sam Falbo', so maybe it's Sam? Is that you Sam? Not that it matters massively, but the new account with supposed information is a little fishy.


----------



## SubzeroJake

I love how Tosin said he got his guitars then Integrity (Frank) claims to have surveillance footage of them getting their property? So? They said they grabbed their property. What's your point?


----------



## I play music

I wonder if this whole situation thing has any effect on Fishman pickups. Does Falbo still work there? Will Abasi guitars still use their pickups if they have to deal with him? Will Tosin maybe endorse another pickup brand now?


----------



## Albake21

I play music said:


> I wonder if this whole situation thing has any effect on Fishman pickups. Does Falbo still work there? Will Abasi guitars still use their pickups if they have to deal with him? Will Tosin maybe endorse another pickup brand now?


I'm sure it won't change a thing.


----------



## animalsasleader

I play music said:


> I wonder if this whole situation thing has any effect on Fishman pickups. Does Falbo still work there? Will Abasi guitars still use their pickups if they have to deal with him? Will Tosin maybe endorse another pickup brand now?



Fishman has nothing to do with any of this and I’ll continue to endorse their products. Great company and killer product.


----------



## ixlramp

SubzeroJake said:


> This is a great design Frank. It accommodates us thumb over players.


Thumb-over technique high up the neck on an 8 string? =) It's already a crippled and unhealthy enough technique on a narrow 6 string neck, makes me cringe. Players need to break their bad habits.


----------



## diagrammatiks

ixlramp said:


> Thumb-over technique high up the neck on an 8 string? =) It's already a crippled and unhealthy enough technique on a narrow 6 string neck, makes me cringe. Players need to break their bad habits.



6 billion likes.


----------



## I play music

ixlramp said:


> Thumb-over technique high up the neck on an 8 string? =) It's already a crippled and unhealthy enough technique on a narrow 6 string neck, makes me cringe. Players need to break their bad habits.


I do this too. Lots of player do this. Even Yngwie Malmsteen. His technique does not look unhealthy to me:


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Be me > buys TA sig set last night
Reads thread
*20 min later*
Be Tosin on YouTube > “We at Lollar...”
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUU

Really did grab the TA sig set for my Strandy last night, the Moderns need a lil mo ass and I’ve heard nothing but great things


----------



## Albake21

I play music said:


> I do this too. Lots of player do this. Even Yngwie Malmsteen. His technique does not look unhealthy to me:



I also play like this. Probably 70% of my playing I have my thumb over like that.


----------



## diagrammatiks

I play music said:


> I do this too. Lots of player do this. Even Yngwie Malmsteen. His technique does not look unhealthy to me:




What part of that man looks healthy to you.


----------



## I play music

diagrammatiks said:


> What part of that man looks healthy to you.


His playing technique looks healthy and very efficient. Except when he uses his teeth, that maybe not so much.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ixlramp said:


> Thumb-over technique high up the neck on an 8 string? =) It's already a crippled and unhealthy enough technique on a narrow 6 string neck, makes me cringe. Players need to break their bad habits.


There's an easy solution, just have someone stand near them and jab them in the thumb with a pushpin whenever it creeps over the top of the neck. That's what my classical guitar teacher did to me when I was a kid.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Electric Wizard said:


> He already dresses like he's a getaway driver in a John Wick movie.
> 
> 
> Actually is there a way to make that happen?



If you take a peek at his Instagram it's pretty clear the dude also knows how to wheel. I don't think you can fit that many unfinished guitars in a R8 though


----------



## cwhitey2

KnightBrolaire said:


> There's an easy solution, just have someone stand near them and jab them in the thumb with a pushpin whenever it creeps over the top of the neck. That's what my classical guitar teacher did to me when I was a kid.



 

I think I'll stick with the thumb over...
My hands are too big to not do thumb over...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

cwhitey2 said:


> I think I'll stick with the thumb over...
> My hands are too big to not do thumb over...


I've got pretty big hands and have never had a problem with hanging my thumb over the neck. Classical conditioning works


----------



## Lindmann

If only people were born without these stupid thumbs. 
No thumb...no need to stick it somewhere.


----------



## Albake21

Lindmann said:


> If only people were born without these stupid thumbs.
> No thumb...no need to stick it somewhere.


What are you, Lil Wayne?


----------



## cwhitey2

Lindmann said:


> If only people were born without these stupid thumbs.
> No thumb...no need to stick it somewhere.


Right...

You would think evolution would have phased them out by now


----------



## Dreamfullofzen

Mhmm..

I know everyone is thinking it so imma say it...

Thumb up the bum.

So we can all move on...lol..


----------



## spudmunkey

cwhitey2 said:


> Right...
> 
> You would think evolution would have phased them out by now



https://www.theonion.com/dolphins-evolve-opposable-thumbs-1819565718

"Dolphins Evolve Opposable Thumbs; 'Oh Shit,' Says Humanity"

"That's it for us monkeys."


----------



## KnightBrolaire

fun fact: dolphins are the only other species besides humans that kills for fun.


----------



## skmanga

Too bad we never got this Ibanez :/

edit: with the duncans!


----------



## goobaba

insert pikachu meme


----------



## Jeff

Holy crap. This was entertaining in a train wreck kinda way. Not a big Frank fan, so I’ll withhold any other comment, since I don’t have any firsthand info anyway.


----------



## eaeolian

IntegrityIsEverything said:


> Tosin minion: The two parties clearly had issues with each other and were unable to work together. Isn’t it just strange though, that if he knew he was right, he had to go in the middle of the night and pull a heist?



I actually know him in real life, and he's not a "Tosin minion". You, on the other hand, are flirting with a permanent nap, so cool it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

eaeolian said:


> I actually know him in real life, and he's not a "Tosin minion". You, on the other hand, are flirting with a permanent nap, so cool it.



Wow, even the mods here are in the Cult of Abasi.


----------



## pondman




----------



## odibrom

ok a stupid joke on fan, frets and the stuff.

What does one gets mixing frets and fans? Nails everywhere...






... I guess this image expresses what I felt reading these last pages...


----------



## jco5055

Ok like most from what we've seen so far I'd definitely say Tosin's story is more valid, but someone posted about this in the Ormsby facebook group and look what Perry had to say:



Now I know there's already been some Ormsby controversy in the past and Perry seems known for being rather volatile at times, but this is interesting...


----------



## diagrammatiks

jco5055 said:


> Ok like most from what we've seen so far I'd definitely say Tosin's story is more valid, but someone posted about this in the Ormsby facebook group and look what Perry had to say:
> 
> View attachment 66335
> 
> Now I know there's already been some Ormsby controversy in the past and Perry seems known for being rather volatile at times, but this is interesting...



Sigh. Perry is. I mean he didn’t even really say anything or so anything here. Much like his customer service.


----------



## cip 123

"Guess I'll check in this thread after a few days..." 

Oh.


----------



## Randy

jco5055 said:


> Ok like most from what we've seen so far I'd definitely say Tosin's story is more valid, but someone posted about this in the Ormsby facebook group and look what Perry had to say:
> 
> View attachment 66335
> 
> Now I know there's already been some Ormsby controversy in the past and Perry seems known for being rather volatile at times, but this is interesting...



We've all gotten notices of eviction? 
themoreyouknow.jpg


----------



## lurè

Really looking forward to see how the thread title is going to evolve; is already close to be a masterpiece.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Randy said:


> We've all gotten notices of eviction?
> themoreyouknow.jpg



I think perry is using the collective we of internet luthiers. 

Also what does it matter if it was only a notice. Anyone aware of a notice like that would be thinking of ways to get their shit back. It doesn’t matter at all if it the person did something to stave off the eviction. It shouldn’t get to that point. 

And perry knows what a settlement is. Good job perry.


----------



## spudmunkey

Randy said:


> We've all gotten notices of eviction?
> themoreyouknow.jpg



To be clear, he said "letters of demand". For a business, once you get to a certain size, they aren't uncommon depending on your industry.


----------



## Jeff

Randy said:


> We've all gotten notices of eviction?
> themoreyouknow.jpg



My buddy has run a guitar shop for 25 years. He’s never gotten an eviction notice. I guess it’s just relegated to luthiers? 

As to Perry’s comment, if someone’s got my shit, they’re not speaking to me, and they get an eviction notice, ima getting my shit ASAP.


----------



## Soya

jco5055 said:


> Ok like most from what we've seen so far I'd definitely say Tosin's story is more valid, but someone posted about this in the Ormsby facebook group and look what Perry had to say:
> 
> View attachment 66335
> 
> Now I know there's already been some Ormsby controversy in the past and Perry seems known for being rather volatile at times, but this is interesting...



Who gives a shit about what Perry Ormsby has to say about this. Really shows his character, boasting about 'never regretting' not working with Tosin on a project.


----------



## Jeff

Soya said:


> Who gives a shit about what Perry Ormsby has to say about this.



He’s gotta weigh in......because he’s a luthier. I’m sure Paul Reed Smith will chime in soon.


----------



## Randy

spudmunkey said:


> To be clear, he said "letters of demand". For a business, once you get to a certain size, they aren't uncommon depending on your industry.



Be very careful about that moving goalpost. This was the letter in question.




Tosin says eviction, Perry says 'notice to evict', Perry and you then say 'letter of demand'. There's the letter right there, we've all gotten one of those? Not uncommon? Maybe I'm not big enough, I've been in business 15 years (not out of my house either) and I've never been evicted, err... given notice to evict, err... given notice of demand I mean.


----------



## Soya

It's interesting how they grasp at straws to try to unite against the great evil Tosin. Boasting about their insider information and names of past business associates. Does self inflated importance just naturally develop once you start selling your guitars?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Soya said:


> It's interesting how they grasp at straws to try to unite against the great evil Tosin. Boasting about their insider information and names of past business associates. Does self inflated importance just naturally develop once you start selling your guitars?



There’s definitely more to the story here but the other side isn’t providing it. Is there’s nothing else left to do except go crazy. 

I’m not taking a side but Tosin gave a list of 3 or 4 very concrete examples. Frank could provide counter evidence without ever saying anything about tosin’s character. 

Hasn’t happened yet. 

From my perspective...I run a 15 person startup. My cfo is able to give me invoices and accountings for every single dollar that comes or out of my business. That’s simple how to run a business 101.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

So we all gonna pretend that Perry doesn't have a stake in this argument, disparaging a potential competitor? 

Maybe he's just cranky that he can't shamelessly rip off Tosin's design like he did with Doug's. 

Also, leveraging your fanbase for monetary gain is how people in Tosin's industry thrive. That's the whole point. Perry knows that.


----------



## spudmunkey

Randy said:


> Be very careful about that moving goalpost. This was the letter in question.
> 
> Tosin says eviction, Perry says 'notice to evict', Perry and you then say 'letter of demand'. There's the letter right there, we've all gotten one of those? Not uncommon? Maybe I'm not big enough, I've been in business 15 years (not out of my house either) and I've never been evicted, err... given notice to evict, err... given notice of demand I mean.



Fair point. I hadn't seen that it was a proper eviction notice like that. I took "letters of demand" to encompass everything to things that are less...er...legally-backed. Like CAD letters from people who don't have any actual right to demand anything like that. Or like my company's youtube channel for a copyrite strike from BMI on youtube. When the video has no music, and it's all original video, and it's not even monitized. It's an un-listed video. Or just a police report, which as mentioned, doesn't necessarily mean any wrong-going. Again, that was before learning that the eviction letter was what it was, that is.


----------



## simonXsludge

Maybe I missed it, but is no one asking why Tosin did not get involved with QC when the product had his name on the headstock and was made somewhat local to him?

Everyone's quick to pick sides, but neither of them look very graceful to me, at least based on the info I've gathered.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

simonXsludge said:


> Maybe I missed it, but is no one asking why Tosin did not get involved with QC when the product had his name on the headstock and was made somewhat local to him?
> 
> Everyone's quick to pick sides, but neither of them look very graceful to me, at least based on the info I've gathered.



Was that his [Tosin's] job? I mean, that's certainly reasonable. I know I'd want to keep anything associated with my brand under scrutiny, but I'd assume that quality control was passed onto the professional builder, and not the artist/owner. 

I agree, neither side is coming out great in this.


----------



## Dreamfullofzen

Lol.. The everyone has been given a notice comment made me laugh so hard i farted a minor3rd up to a perfect 5th...

By "we" he must mean all questionable and dishonest business people.......

Ironically no one is picking sides.. All we are doing is not buying the bullshit character debate certain people are flaunting... I Dont know tosin personally.. And I couldn't care less if he is super business minded and shrewd.. I can name you a shit ton of players like that (vai, greg howe, wylde, satch, batten, etc.). 

Tosin wanted to air a situation to clear up rumors and hear say... Then the other party just came along and cried wolf.. With zero evidence to back anything up.. And then a plethora of fake account(s) nonsense to stir up absolute nonsense.... Like a video of tosin which should have led to him being in jail if the situation was told as is.. But is of course a complete lie.. Which isn't surprising since it fits the profile of a sociopath when they are being outed for what they are...


----------



## simonXsludge

MaxOfMetal said:


> I know I'd want to keep anything associated with my brand under scrutiny


Yeah, that's my point. The way the brand was marketed by Tosin definitely gave me the impression that he would be very involved.


----------



## Randy

spudmunkey said:


> Fair point. I hadn't seen that it was a proper eviction notice like that. I took "letters of demand" to encompass everything to things that are less...er...legally-backed. Like CAD letters from people who don't have any actual right to demand anything like that. Or like my company's youtube channel for a copyrite strike from BMI on youtube. When the video has no music, and it's all original video, and it's not even monitized. It's an un-listed video. Or just a police report, which as mentioned, doesn't necessarily mean any wrong-going. Again, that was before learning that the eviction letter was what it was, that is.



That's fair enough, I get where you're coming from. Seeing the picture now, you can see how disingenuous Perry's characterization is right? Kinda undermines whatever kinda point he was trying to make that he needed to bend the truth so far to get there.


----------



## cwhitey2

simonXsludge said:


> Maybe I missed it, but is no one asking why Tosin did not get involved with QC when the product had his name on the headstock and was made somewhat local to him?
> 
> Everyone's quick to pick sides, but neither of them look very graceful to me, at least based on the info I've gathered.


Very good point, but I have to agree with Max on this one. Especially since Frank had shares/'stock' in Abasi.

If I was Frank... none of those original guitars would have been sent to Japan/ made it through my QC/QA...I would be embarrassed (no i don't build guitars). Way to many flaws for the price. Heck, if I owned one of the shops that received those guitars I would be pissed.


----------



## cip 123

After all this drama the main point I'm taking away from this is -

We could've all had TosinMachines by now if Perry had just given out a free guitar.


----------



## herbmystic

MaxOfMetal said:


> Maybe he's just cranky that he can't shamelessly rip off Tosin's design like he did with Doug's.
> 
> Also, leveraging your fanbase for monetary gain is how people in Tosin's industry thrive. That's the whole point. Perry knows that.



To be fair it was members of this forum that initially approached him and asked him to build the blackmachine style models. He took the opportunity to leverage the Blackmachine hype for monetary gain. He even "shamelessly" named it the hypemachine.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

herbmystic said:


> To be fair it was members of this forum that initially approached him and asked him to build the blackmachine style models. He took the opportunity to leverage the Blackmachine hype for monetary gain. He even "shamelessly" named it the hypemachine.



How does that saying go? Something about bricks and glass......


----------



## narad

Shameless is right. Dude's basically AliExpress with a rockstar ego.

And anyone that designed that hype machine headstock certainly has no business commenting on anyone else's design skills lol


----------



## Randy

Jeff Kiesel: Bogan Edition


----------



## axxessdenied

I own a storefront as well and pay a substantial monthly rent (more than what the avg canadian earns a month) and I've never once received a letter to vacate let along get a FINAL NOTICE that the property will be handed over lol.
Also, Perry commenting on the dealings of other guitar business is pretty hilarious considering his track record with delivering runs on time. lol
Glad I never bought into the ormsby hype. Didn't dig them at namm anyways hehe


----------



## Hollowway

The scary thing for me is that there seems to be no way of telling which luthiers are going to take your money and not deliver a guitar. Some definitely take on too many orders, and implode. But others don't, and disappear anyway. It just makes it a bit of a dice roll when trying to order a custom. And it gives a bad name to every single luthier out there. Being a luthier these days must be like trying to be an honest used car salesman.


----------



## Fretless

Hollowway said:


> The scary thing for me is that there seems to be no way of telling which luthiers are going to take your money and not deliver a guitar. Some definitely take on too many orders, and implode. But others don't, and disappear anyway. It just makes it a bit of a dice roll when trying to order a custom. And it gives a bad name to every single luthier out there. Being a luthier these days must be like trying to be an honest used car salesman.


Right? Like, I ordered my Quake from Skip, and I know he's pretty darn trustworthy so far, and has a good enough reputation for me to throw my money at him, but at the same time, it still makes me suuuuuuuuuper nervous. Until I get my Quake, I will have the small fear that I will never see my bass, and that it will become the next in the line of luthiers running away with money.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> The scary thing for me is that there seems to be no way of telling which luthiers are going to take your money and not deliver a guitar. Some definitely take on too many orders, and implode. But others don't, and disappear anyway. It just makes it a bit of a dice roll when trying to order a custom. And it gives a bad name to every single luthier out there. Being a luthier these days must be like trying to be an honest used car salesman.



To a degree it comes with the territory of being on the forefront of new and different instruments.

That said, builders who operate thier business like a Kickstarter project are a hard pass.


----------



## Randy

Hollowway said:


> The scary thing for me is that there seems to be no way of telling which luthiers are going to take your money and not deliver a guitar. Some definitely take on too many orders, and implode. But others don't, and disappear anyway. It just makes it a bit of a dice roll when trying to order a custom. And it gives a bad name to every single luthier out there. Being a luthier these days must be like trying to be an honest used car salesman.



I posted a long-ish post elsewhere but the synopsis is that you should have some kind of a relationship with whoever you do business with at that level, as you really need trust (and a good reason _to_ trust).

Custom guitars and luthiery is a craft much like blacksmithing or farriership, but the temptation of the 21st century is to buy, sell and trade handmade, cut to fit goods the same as we buy new bedsheets or a cell phone case. 

If you're selling guitars (or buying them) like pre-ordering a game console or something, there's an unrealistic expectation of delivery and now you're competing with good people can buy on impulse, be playing two days later and, frequently, return for a full refund another two days later. Every dollar more or day longer it takes versus that paradigm is one more notch of anxiety, one more chance the deal sours and it's a losing proposition. 

It seems like there was somewhat of a renaissance of craftsmanship in this country over the last decade (see: craft brewing, 'etsy' economy) but we're still buying and selling guitars like they're being stamped out of a press.

These days I'm capable of setting up my own guitars but when I was younger, I used to pay to have it done. I went to a few places. Some guys took too long, some guys charged too much, some guys didn't do it the way I liked, and eventually I found a guy that was my ideal. And by 'ideal' I don't mean he was perfect, I mean that it was a balance of all of that enough that we established a trust. I didn't ask him unrealistic deadlines, he didn't ask unrealistic prices. BUT sometimes I had a show coming up so I'd ask to if I could get it rushed and sometimes the price would go up because it was more work/materials or hell, maybe he just forgot what he charged me last time. But there was a trust, it's not like we were best friends but we were fair and we both knew not to ask too much of the other.

If you're not willing to vet who you do business with, you're either going to be the buyer rolling the dice on the deposit for a guitar that never shows up or you're going to be the builder with the customer that spams the entire internet with close-ups every unfilled grain of wood on your guitar before even offering you a chance to make it right, then orders a full refund and sends the guitar back smelling like cat piss. Don't be either of these guys.


----------



## Djentlyman

Which group in particular was that comment made?

EDIT: nevermind, found it. 


jco5055 said:


> Ok like most from what we've seen so far I'd definitely say Tosin's story is more valid, but someone posted about this in the Ormsby facebook group and look what Perry had to say:
> 
> View attachment 66335
> 
> Now I know there's already been some Ormsby controversy in the past and Perry seems known for being rather volatile at times, but this is interesting...


----------



## Smoked Porter

Randy said:


> Jeff Kiesel: Bogan Edition


 
I wish the word bogan was a thing in America.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Smoked Porter said:


> I wish the word bogan was a thing in America.


i mean it's basically just australian for hillbilly/trailer trash


----------



## AxeHappy

Edit: 
Nope. Nevermind.


Aside:
Glad to see people shitting on Perry finally. I wouldn't do business with that disingenuous shit rat again if I won the lottery and the guitar gave me blowjobs. Isn't he ViK levels of behind on runs now? Sure glad he managed to "somehow" find the money to do all those overpriced GTR runs.


----------



## Veldar

frank falbo said:


> Where’d you think I went?
> 
> I’d like to think if I died it would’ve at least trended on socials for 12-18 hours.



Did Franks brand death trend on socials for more or less than 12 - 18 hours? Asking for a friend.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

AxeHappy said:


> Edit:
> Nope. Nevermind.
> 
> 
> Aside:
> Glad to see people shitting on Perry finally. I wouldn't do business with that disingenuous shit rat again if I won the lottery and the guitar gave me blowjobs. Isn't he ViK levels of behind on runs now? Sure glad he managed to "somehow" find the money to do all those overpriced GTR runs.



Shame you deleted your post. I thought it was very well thought out and added to the conversation. 

I can't figure out if Perry genuinely has no idea how a) evictions work and b) how you can terminate partnerships in an LLC, or is being purposefully misleading.

That eviction notice (that's what it is, not anything else) was obtained in a court of law. After numerous condition were met, a judge decided that the evidence showed that an eviction could be served. Law enforcement helps facilitate this. This wasn't some nasty-gram typed up by a private party. Just because the eviction wasn't executed, doesn't mean it just went away, the landlord has discretion.

As for the business partnership, Frank's share in Abasi Guitars [Concepts, whatever], can be challenged legally. If a business partner acts in the interests of themselves over the interest of the business.



> You can sue your business partner if:
> 
> 
> Your business partner engaged in fraud or theft. If your partner stole money or property from the company, you can file a claim to try to recover the items or funds. Theft or embezzlement is not only a civil matter, but is also a criminal matter.
> Your business partner breached his fiduciary duty. Your partner owes an obligation to you and the company and you can take action if that duty is breached. A fiduciary duty may be breached when your partners acts in his own best interests instead of doing what is right for the company you have created together.
> Your business partner violates any contractual agreements you have. You may enter into a wide variety of different contractual agreements, such as a non-disclosure agreement, an employment agreement, a non-compete agreement, and a partnership agreement. When any contract is breached, the party who was the victim of the breach can sue for damages. This includes contracts entered into between co-partners in a business venture.
> Your business partner violates your intellectual property rights. If the company owns a patent, copyright, or trademark, your business partner cannot begin to personally use this intellectual property without the permission of the company.



I know Australia is a strange land, but is this not how they handle things?


----------



## pondman

What are the Vik stories Perry mentioned ?


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Shame you deleted your post. I thought it was very well thought out and added to the conversation.
> 
> I can't figure out if Perry genuinely has no idea how a) evictions work and b) how you can terminate partnerships in an LLC, or is being purposefully misleading.
> 
> That eviction notice (that's what it is, not anything else) was obtained in a court of law. After numerous condition were met, a judge decided that the evidence showed that an eviction could be served. Law enforcement helps facilitate this. This wasn't some nasty-gram typed up by a private party. Just because the eviction wasn't executed, doesn't mean it just went away, the landlord has discretion.
> 
> As for the business partnership, Frank's share in Abasi Guitars [Concepts, whatever], can be challenged legally. If a business partner acts in the interests of themselves over the interest of the business.
> 
> 
> 
> I know Australia is a strange land, but is this not how they handle things?



I think we already put more thought into analyzing the statement then perry spent spewing it.


----------



## prlgmnr

pondman said:


> What are the Vik stories Perry mentioned ?


He seems to be hinting at the concept of a story about Vik in which someone other than Vik comes off looking bad, which will surely trump the "being outclassed by Dave Mustaine" thing from the Arch Enemy photograph controversy thread.


----------



## USMarine75

And here I recommended Perry in another thread... I had no idea he had his own issues too.


----------



## SubzeroJake

Pretty sure Vik is operating out of Frank's shop now. Maybe he has inside info?


----------



## pondman

Aye I just heard about that.


----------



## Randy

KnightBrolaire said:


> i mean it's basically just australian for hillbilly/trailer trash



Yeah but the added specifics of living in the desert, a pair of permanently affixed Oakley Oil Rigs, the faux extreme sports vibe and that accent complete the visual just so


----------



## odibrom

prlgmnr said:


> (...)
> 
> "being outclassed by Dave Mustaine" thing from the Arch Enemy photograph controversy thread.



Ok, I know it's off topic, but please link me to that story...


----------



## cardinal

IMHO getting a custom from a small luither is a bit of finesse and patients. I found someone who is rock solid and trust worthy, but for the first few years I just sent him repair work and customization stuff. It was smaller stuff, so I wasn’t surprised when he charged only after work was done. I always paid immediately and usually gave a tip. 

Sometimes the work wasn’t exactly what I had in mind but communication is a two way street, and really this stuff is an art: better to give some leeway to the craftsman so he has some fun with it too. The results and relationship will be better. 

And when I finally did place a custom order, it was great, we both communicated well, and I’ve ordered another that’s looking great from the progress pics. 

I had tried out other luthiers with mods and repair work, but they sometimes seemed a bit dodgy or didn’t want to bother with some of the things I wanted. So I just moved on.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

SubzeroJake said:


> Pretty sure Vik is operating out of Frank's shop now. Maybe he has inside info?





pondman said:


> Aye I just heard about that.



Wait so Franks helping out that homophobic piece of shit now?


----------



## prlgmnr

odibrom said:


> Ok, I know it's off topic, but please link me to that story...


http://sevenstring.org/threads/how-i-got-banned-from-photographing-the-band-arch-enemy.333565/

in there somewhere, it isn't even half as exciting as I made it sound


----------



## Frostbite

I think Perry doesn't have as much as a grasp on the situation as he thinks he does but wants to get in the middle of it to try and capitalize and get his name in the equation. Sucks cause I seriously love my Ormsby but stuff like this makes me jaded to looking at another one. Shame cause I was looking for an 8 string in the future.

Edit: BTW, this situation sucks but this thread is top tier internet for me at this point and I've been on forums since I was like 13-14 and I'm 26 now hahahaha


----------



## BuckarooBanzai

Soya said:


> Who gives a shit about what Perry Ormsby has to say about this. Really shows his character, boasting about 'never regretting' not working with Tosin on a project.





diagrammatiks said:


> Sigh. Perry is. I mean he didn’t even really say anything or so anything here. Much like his customer service.



I purchased 3 GTRs, flipped two of them due to never playing them and am contemplating getting rid of the third for similar reasons. I won't be buying any more Ormsbys due to their lackluster customer service and his kinda-shitty attitude. One of my guitars had a myriad of issues that it shouldn't have had if it had been set up properly (and no, I'm not talking about "you need to tweak yer truss road mate!", I'm talking about stripped bridge screws and a defective bridge design) and the resolution was half-assed. They also misrepresented the cases they sent out with the Run 1 guitars (it was a generic case with a piece of blue foam in it to make the guitar fit, and it wasn't even glued down but they had testimonials in their Facebook group from customers saying things such as "you can't even tell it's modified") and still haven't delivered the case candy they promised for a guitar I bought... 3, 4 years ago?

I understand that running a business is hard but they do it by the seat of their pants and say too much cute shit on Facebook for my liking. The fact that he thinks it's normal to get an eviction notice (hint: it's not, pay your fucking bills) basically seals the deal for me. I do have them to thank for introducing me to Tim-Tams though.



Frostbite said:


> I think Perry doesn't have as much as a grasp on the situation as he thinks he does but wants to get in the middle of it to try and capitalize and get his name in the equation. Sucks cause I seriously love my Ormsby but stuff like this makes me jaded to looking at another one. Shame cause I was looking for an 8 string in the future.
> 
> Edit: BTW, this situation sucks but this thread is top tier internet for me at this point and I've been on forums since I was like 13-14 and I'm 26 now hahahaha



Yeah I wanted a Futura but between them choosing figured tops instead of solids and Perry's levels of shit-talking being halfway to Jeff Kiesel I'm not interested. I don't think he's a complete prick or anything (i.e. he'd probably help me if I were in a ditch on the side of the road and he drove past) but I have no patience for his shenanigans and sometimes-OK production guitars that cost $1300.

**EDIT: Let us also not forget that he tried to claim that your warranty is instantly voided if you talk about issues with your instrument in a public forum... which I think is outright illegal in the EU and probably not enforceable in the US, though IANAL.


----------



## Jeff

Perry Ormsby is basically the Australian Jeff Kiesel (fitting, since they’re buddies). 

I’m surprised he’s not calling everything rad that he does.


----------



## BuckarooBanzai

Jeff said:


> Perry Ormsby is basically the Australian Jeff Kiesel (fitting, since they’re buddies).
> 
> I’m surprised he’s not calling everything rad that he does.



I wouldn't put him at that level just yet... though with that post he made about the drama he's approaching it.


----------



## narad

Still bummed he didn't call his 6-string blackmachine rip-off a didgerB2.


----------



## Frostbite

Mo Jiggity said:


> I do have them to thank for introducing me to Tim-Tams though.


God tim tams are fucking mind blowing


----------



## diagrammatiks

Mo Jiggity said:


> I purchased 3 GTRs, flipped two of them due to never playing them and am contemplating getting rid of the third for similar reasons. I won't be buying any more Ormsbys due to their lackluster customer service and his kinda-shitty attitude. One of my guitars had a myriad of issues that it shouldn't have had if it had been set up properly (and no, I'm not talking about "you need to tweak yer truss road mate!", I'm talking about stripped bridge screws and a defective bridge design) and the resolution was half-assed. They also misrepresented the cases they sent out with the Run 1 guitars (it was a generic case with a piece of blue foam in it to make the guitar fit, and it wasn't even glued down but they had testimonials in their Facebook group from customers saying things such as "you can't even tell it's modified") and still haven't delivered the case candy they promised for a guitar I bought... 3, 4 years ago?
> 
> I understand that running a business is hard but they do it by the seat of their pants and say too much cute shit on Facebook for my liking. The fact that he thinks it's normal to get an eviction notice (hint: it's not, pay your fucking bills) basically seals the deal for me. I do have them to thank for introducing me to Tim-Tams though.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I wanted a Futura but between them choosing figured tops instead of solids and Perry's levels of shit-talking being halfway to Jeff Kiesel I'm not interested. I don't think he's a complete prick or anything (i.e. he'd probably help me if I were in a ditch on the side of the road and he drove past) but I have no patience for his shenanigans and sometimes-OK production guitars that cost $1300.
> 
> **EDIT: Let us also not forget that he tried to claim that your warranty is instantly voided if you talk about issues with your instrument in a public forum... which I think is outright illegal in the EU and probably not enforceable in the US, though IANAL.



Ya their handling of my return was not great.

I mean as far as I’m concerned ormsby’s only redeeming grace is sometimes getting wmi to shit out decent guitar.


----------



## BuckarooBanzai

diagrammatiks said:


> Ya their handling of my return was not great.
> 
> I mean as far as I’m concerned ormsby’s only redeeming grace is sometimes getting wmi to shit out decent guitar.



What really sucks is that when the whole Run 1 debacle went down he handled it as best as he possibly could have... top-notch "press release" on Facebook, offering full refunds accounting for currency conversion differences, etc. At the time he really seemed like a stand-up guy, but between the motormouth and the lackluster guitar experiences I'm not a fan anymore. He hasn't, however, trashed small luthiers, carved a bevel into a headstock to "strengthen" it, outright denied customer refunds, lied about being robbed, or done any of the more unsavory nonsense that Kiesel has. None of my GTRs have fret sprout or bubbles in the clear therefrom, either, like my Carvin transition-model bass does, which is to say I think the guitars are pretty great at any price point (hardware issues excepted) and that the brand does have intrinsic value.

I'm disappointed in Perry, but Jeff Kiesel is a douchenozzle.


----------



## BlackMastodon

narad said:


> Still bummed he didn't call his 6-string blackmachine rip-off a didgerB2.


This is art.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

narad said:


> Still bummed he didn't call his 6-string blackmachine rip-off a didgerB2.


see now I want to build a b2 tribute out of all aussie woods with aboriginal inlays and call it that


----------



## Smoked Porter

KnightBrolaire said:


> i mean it's basically just australian for hillbilly/trailer trash


Yeah I know, but trailer trash is a bit mean for my liking, and hillbilly is fun, but not as fun as bogan.


----------



## Avedas

Been away a few days; this thread was a ride.

Anyway, the new Abasi models are available here now and once again selling at ~600k JPY so I will not be buying one.

Here's to 2020 lmao 

PS. Here's a link for my fellow Japanese-literate SSO'ers (or people who can use Google translate)
https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop60/DS05093776/

The weird old racist asshole guy must not have been working at G-Club that day.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Avedas said:


> Been away a few days; this thread was a ride.
> 
> Anyway, the new Abasi models are available here now and once again selling at ~600k JPY so I will not be buying one.
> 
> Here's to 2020 lmao
> 
> PS. Here's a link for my fellow Japanese-literate SSO'ers (or people who can use Google translate)
> https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop60/DS05093776/
> 
> The weird old racist asshole guy must not have been working at G-Club that day.



New as in post Falbo production?


----------



## Avedas

diagrammatiks said:


> New as in post Falbo production?


Yeah Tosin is in Tokyo right now and brought them over. Pics on his IG.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Completely stopping production in the summer and moving to a new company who have guitars available in stores in 6-7 months is really good going. 



SubzeroJake said:


> Pretty sure Vik is operating out of Frank's shop now. Maybe he has inside info?



It would make sense how he got set up so quickly in the US and how he has CnC machines he never had before. 

Perry's post says "stories" as if there is something waiting to come out. This thread ain't done yet haha


----------



## diagrammatiks

Lorcan Ward said:


> Completely stopping production in the summer and moving to a new company who have guitars available in stores in 6-7 months is really good going.
> 
> 
> 
> It would make sense how he got set up so quickly in the US and how he has CnC machines he never had before.
> 
> Perry's post says "stories" as if there is something waiting to come out. This thread ain't done yet haha



Did Tosin tell us who built these? 

I mean 6-7 months is fine for a luthier that’s actually building.


----------



## I play music

Lorcan Ward said:


> Perry's post says "stories" as if there is something waiting to come out. This thread ain't done yet haha


Perry likes to hint/suggest things that are never revealed or one can't know if there's something to it or not. I think he also commented about Strandberg having problems with warped necks once. Was the first and last time I had heard about that.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Maybe since I wouldn't consider Vik working in someones workshop that big a deal. 



diagrammatiks said:


> Did Tosin tell us who built these?
> 
> I mean 6-7 months is fine for a luthier that’s actually building.



Jackson I think? Its somewhere in this thread. What I mean is he saw at the issues, halted production, swapped companies and got production going again well in time for NAMM.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Lorcan Ward said:


> Completely stopping production in the summer and moving to a new company who have guitars available in stores in 6-7 months is really good going.
> 
> 
> 
> It would make sense how he got set up so quickly in the US and how he has CnC machines he never had before.
> 
> Perry's post says "stories" as if there is something waiting to come out. This thread ain't done yet haha


The guitars in stores are the ones Frank was working on. They still have the old neck heel.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I believe Grover Jackson. Dude seems to be (not-so) ghostbuilding for several companies like Friedman.


----------



## The Hiryuu

Lorcan Ward said:


> Jackson I think? Its somewhere in this thread. What I mean is he saw at the issues, halted production, swapped companies and got production going again well in time for NAMM.



Grover Jackson. Not the Fender-owned Jackson company.


----------



## j3ps3

Am I the only one who doesn't really like this trend of players (Wylde, Ola, Tosin..) starting a guitar brand? As a builder myself, I feel like there really should be a real luthier behind the company. Of course there's exceptions, but what does the player know about making guitars? 

Not taking sides, but I don't really understand why Tosin hired Frank in the first place, if it is worth a mention that he hasn't done electric / fanned fret / extended range guitars before. All this thread has done for me, is that I'm never going to buy a guitar from either of them.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

j3ps3 said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't really like this trend of players (Wylde, Ola, Tosin..) starting a guitar brand? As a builder myself, I feel like there really should be a real luthier behind the company. Of course there's exceptions, but what does the player know about making guitars?
> 
> Not taking sides, but I don't really understand why Tosin hired Frank in the first place, if it is worth a mention that he hasn't done electric / fanned fret / extended range guitars before. All this thread has done for me, is that I'm never going to buy a guitar from either of them.



Wylde Guitars are , but I've seen a lot of love for Ola's brand. I mean, it's not like the guitarist is the only one doing the work.  They probably have some actual builders and factory owners consulting them with what they should and shouldn't do. Paid off well for Rob Chappers and Ola though. Both are brands that are doing really well right now. 

Also Abasi probably had connections with Frank because of the work he did with Fishman for his pickups. And he just so happened to run his own guitar company.


----------



## Jeff

j3ps3 said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't really like this trend of players (Wylde, Ola, Tosin..) starting a guitar brand? As a builder myself, I feel like there really should be a real luthier behind the company. Of course there's exceptions, but what does the player know about making guitars?
> 
> Not taking sides, but I don't really understand why Tosin hired Frank in the first place, if it is worth a mention that he hasn't done electric / fanned fret / extended range guitars before. All this thread has done for me, is that I'm never going to buy a guitar from either of them.



Honestly, I’m no big EVH fan, but I think he’s done absolutely the best job of it, establishing a sub-brand of Fender. It’s obvious the rest of these people don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. WMI is absolutely saturated now to the point where PRS switched almost entirely to Cort, because they were getting garbage from WMI.


----------



## j3ps3

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Wylde Guitars are , but I've seen a lot of love for Ola's brand. I mean, it's not like the guitarist is the only one doing the work.  They probably have some actual builders and factory owners consulting them with what they should and shouldn't do. Paid off well for Rob Chappers and Ola though. Both are brands that are doing really well right now.
> 
> Also Abasi probably had connections with Frank because of the work he did with Fishman for his pickups. And he just so happened to run his own guitar company.



Of course there are, but what I mean is, would you buy a plane made by a pilot? Not at all the same thing, but still. I'd like the guy running the business to know it inside out and not just the business side of it.

And I just think that the comment by Tosin is hypocritical. Why it wasn't a problem before the fallout? I just think it's kinda low to shoot stuff like that towards Frank.


----------



## cwhitey2

Jeff said:


> Honestly, I’m no big EVH fan, but I think he’s done absolutely the best job of it, establishing a sub-brand of Fender. It’s obvious the rest of these people don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. WMI is absolutely saturated now to the point where PRS switched almost entirely to Cort, because they were getting garbage from WMI.


I didn't know about PRS switching factories...when did that place?

I was honestly underwhelmed by every SE i tried years ago that i just stopped checking them out.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

j3ps3 said:


> Of course there are, but what I mean is, would you buy a plane made by a pilot? Not at all the same thing, but still. I'd like the guy running the business to know it inside out and not just the business side of it.
> 
> And I just think that the comment by Tosin is hypocritical. Why it wasn't a problem before the fallout? I just think it's kinda low to shoot stuff like that towards Frank.



If the pilot has the right people on hand to help him take care of both the business side AND production side of things, why not? And with the guitar stuff, if the reviews are good, once again, why not? Sure you can call it trendy, but if it works out in the end, I won't bitch. Means we get more cool guitars like we are with Solar Guitars.


----------



## Demiurge

An artist having a brand isn't necessarily a problem as some successful examples demonstrate. A situation like this, however, where an artist's reputation was first used to over-hype the product, then to spackle-over issues, and then, depending on how you see it, either was put at risk due someone else's actions or earned him more benefit of the doubt than perhaps deserved- every possible downside became evident.


----------



## j3ps3

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If the pilot has the right people on hand to help him take care of both the business side AND production side of things, why not? And with the guitar stuff, if the reviews are good, once again, why not? Sure you can call it trendy, but if it works out in the end, I won't bitch. Means we get more cool guitars like we are with Solar Guitars.



The guitars, for now, are sold solely by the name of Tosin. Not by the quality of the instrument. That's something that makes me cringe. As a player I wouldn't want to buy an instrument like that. And not trying to bash, but the new brands do not offer anything new or special. Pretty much the same super strat shaped black guitars from the same factories as every other brand.

And has this worked out in the end? Not really, at least in this case.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> Perry's post says "stories" as if there is something waiting to come out. This thread ain't done yet haha



Chances are it's just the typical luthier-customer/artist-bitchfest. 

For whatever reasons, some builders feel they are owed so much by artists/endorsers. It's a collaborative business relationship, but both sides need to make money. Expecting a popular artist to be beholden to a maker because of a free guitar is nuts. Granted, builders don't want to feel taken advantage of, but it's got to be give and take. 

I would trust Vik even less than Perry. What is he going to say? Did Tosin's fashion savvy make him feel confused and uncomfortable? 



j3ps3 said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't really like this trend of players (Wylde, Ola, Tosin..) starting a guitar brand? As a builder myself, I feel like there really should be a real luthier behind the company. Of course there's exceptions, but what does the player know about making guitars?



Some of the greatest minds in guitar design and development of the last century were neither players or luthiers. 

Sometimes it's good to have an outside view.


----------



## diagrammatiks

j3ps3 said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't really like this trend of players (Wylde, Ola, Tosin..) starting a guitar brand? As a builder myself, I feel like there really should be a real luthier behind the company. Of course there's exceptions, but what does the player know about making guitars?
> 
> Not taking sides, but I don't really understand why Tosin hired Frank in the first place, if it is worth a mention that he hasn't done electric / fanned fret / extended range guitars before. All this thread has done for me, is that I'm never going to buy a guitar from either of them.



Can’t really make a blanket statement like that. A luthier might be only one guy but you need multiple people running a company. Every aspect should have someone who actually knows what they are doing running it.

For every situation like solar or Chapman there’s like 10 builders who would have benefited from a business manager and a marketing director.


----------



## Hollowway

j3ps3 said:


> Of course there are, but what I mean is, would you buy a plane made by a pilot? Not at all the same thing, but still. I'd like the guy running the business to know it inside out and not just the business side of it.



Well, that's not really accurate. You're saying you don't like guitar companies OWNED by guitarists. Not built buy guitarists. So, in your example, I absolutely WOULD buy a plane built by engineers, and owned by a pilot. Who better to know exactly what a plane needs in order to be flown the best, safest, etc? Same with guitars. I would expect that a guitarist is going to know what is needed for the guitar to play really well. In fact, for a lot of guitars I've played over the years, I could immediately see that whoever designed it didn't have playing in mind. Poor upper fret access, giant heels, high action, heaviness, etc. 

What I will say is that in all of these cases, and in pretty much any other small business, these guys need to partner, or get serious advice, from people who know business. The number of luthiers who have shit the bed on SSO alone is pretty high. I think it's pretty evident that getting customer deposits in, and then buying a car or going on vacation with the money (Decibel) is NOT the way to run a business. 

I don't disagree with you about luthiers owning guitar companies. But, I think it's pretty evident that the modern electric guitar/ERG luthierie field has pretty much created a vacuum in the market. If there were enough good, dependable luthiers people like Ola and Tosin probably couldn't get a foothold in the market. But, a lot of us consumers are petrified to order from a luthier who has little disincentive to take the money, close up shop, and move on. A musician like Tosin and Ola have other revenue streams, and if they pulled a stunt like that, it's likely to affect their other avenues of income. It just seems like they need to protect their reputation more. For me, that adds just a little more safety. And then outsourcing to an established factory like WMI helps with that sense of security.

As I said before, I don't envy the situation guys like you are in. It's got to be damn tough to prove to people you're not a scammer, and that you can build good instruments worth the money.


----------



## Mathemagician

I’m pro anybody trying to start a business. All day every. But I have no intention of being the first early adopter of anything. If both Tosin’s line and Franks take off then that two people hiring others and growing businesses. That’s a win for everyone who wants to buy cool and more niche stuff.

For my $0.02 I find people racing to say “first” with their $$$ curious individuals.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

ElysianGuitars said:


> The guitars in stores are the ones Frank was working on. They still have the old neck heel.



Ah that makes more sense!


----------



## j3ps3

diagrammatiks said:


> Can’t really make a blanket statement like that. A luthier might be only one guy but you need multiple people running a company. Every aspect should have someone who actually knows what they are doing running it.
> 
> For every situation like solar or Chapman there’s like 10 builders who would have benefited from a business manager and a marketing director.



Of course you do, but I just don't like how these are sold pretty much by the name of the guy playing them. Ibanez signature series would've make more sense to me. Sure Tosin knows how to play them but I'd like the name on the headstock to be from the guy actually building the instrument (correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood these were more or less custom instruments?). Good player doesn't necessarily know if the instrument is good or bad. Good setup on a shit guitar can make a player go "this is the best guitar I've ever played", yet all the other aspects of the instrument are complete rubbish. At least, as a luthier I wouldn't want to make orders under someone else's name. Oh well, maybe I'm just jelly, that I don't have my own company  




Hollowway said:


> Well, that's not really accurate. You're saying you don't like guitar companies OWNED by guitarists. Not built buy guitarists. So, in your example, I absolutely WOULD buy a plane built by engineers, and owned by a pilot. Who better to know exactly what a plane needs in order to be flown the best, safest, etc? Same with guitars. I would expect that a guitarist is going to know what is needed for the guitar to play really well. In fact, for a lot of guitars I've played over the years, I could immediately see that whoever designed it didn't have playing in mind. Poor upper fret access, giant heels, high action, heaviness, etc.



I just don't get, as a luthier, why would you want to make a custom instrument under someone else's name? To me this just seems like a cash grab under Tosin's name. And again, if it isn't a problem, why did Tosin mention that Frank had no previous experience under these kind of instruments? If you're gonna put you're name under a product you should've known better. Guitarist rarely really know what is needed for the guitar to play well. They do know if it does play well, or if it doesn't, but that's about it. At the lutherie school I was at, we had this joke that making a good guitar is about who can hide the errors along the way the best.



Hollowway said:


> What I will say is that in all of these cases, and in pretty much any other small business, these guys need to partner, or get serious advice, from people who know business. The number of luthiers who have shit the bed on SSO alone is pretty high. I think it's pretty evident that getting customer deposits in, and then buying a car or going on vacation with the money (Decibel) is NOT the way to run a business.



Agreed.



Hollowway said:


> I don't disagree with you about luthiers owning guitar companies. But, I think it's pretty evident that the modern electric guitar/ERG luthierie field has pretty much created a vacuum in the market. If there were enough good, dependable luthiers people like Ola and Tosin probably couldn't get a foothold in the market. But, a lot of us consumers are petrified to order from a luthier who has little disincentive to take the money, close up shop, and move on. A musician like Tosin and Ola have other revenue streams, and if they pulled a stunt like that, it's likely to affect their other avenues of income. It just seems like they need to protect their reputation more. For me, that adds just a little more safety. And then outsourcing to an established factory like WMI helps with that sense of security.
> 
> As I said before, I don't envy the situation guys like you are in. It's got to be damn tough to prove to people you're not a scammer, and that you can build good instruments worth the money.



Tosin and Ola already had a foot in the door so it's easier to run the business as pretty much everyone on the industry knows them. That doesn't mean they truly know what they're selling. Like I said, many guitarist' know if it is a player or not, but that's about it. Shit instrument can have a good setup and that's something that a lot of players are fooled by.

Oh, and I haven't actually played any of the instruments I'm talking about, so I don't really know about the quality. Just speculating


----------



## BigViolin

words, many


----------



## Jeff

cwhitey2 said:


> I didn't know about PRS switching factories...when did that place?
> 
> I was honestly underwhelmed by every SE i tried years ago that i just stopped checking them out.



Last year. PRS was pissed that they were having significant quality control issues with WMI stuff, now that they’ve become the world’s East Asian factory de jour


----------



## cip 123

Frostbite said:


> I think Perry doesn't have as much as a grasp on the situation as he thinks he does but wants to get in the middle of it to try and capitalize and get his name in the equation. Sucks cause I seriously love my Ormsby but stuff like this makes me jaded to looking at another one.



Same with Kiesel, A Carvin JB200C was my dream guitar. Jeff's attitude the past few years has just tainted it a little.


----------



## Soya

BigViolin said:


> words, many


Nonsense, much also.


----------



## pondman

While this thread is dramatically entertaining I'm guessing Frank has gone silent for legal reasons as anything said now could be used against either side if this ever goes to court.


----------



## Fretless

j3ps3 said:


> I just don't get, as a luthier, why would you want to make a custom instrument under someone else's name?



Quite simple, you stand to gain more business than you would normally have operating under your own name. I'll probably get in trouble for saying this since I haven't set up a dealer account here (though I'm not advertising my company here, and won't even say my company name), but I make pickups. I'm working on building them for someone else (potentially multiple people), who I will not be disclosing. I have 50 people following me on FB. One of the interested parties has over 5000. That gives me the opportunity to trade away a fair share of my profit margins in trade for a broader audience. Even if I made half the total profit off of a pickup, if I can reach even half of the customer base of the interested party, I will see a vast increase in profit.


----------



## Dayn

Fretless said:


> Quite simple, you stand to gain more business than you would normally have operating under your own name. I'll probably get in trouble for saying this since I haven't set up a dealer account here (though I'm not advertising my company here, and won't even say my company name), but I make pickups. I'm working on building them for someone else (potentially multiple people), who I will not be disclosing. I have 50 people following me on FB. One of the interested parties has over 5000. That gives me the opportunity to trade away a fair share of my profit margins in trade for a broader audience. Even if I made half the total profit off of a pickup, if I can reach even half of the customer base of the interested party, I will see a vast increase in profit.


Same reason franchises exist. You could start your own restaurant... or you could buy a McDonalds franchise along with all the customers that name brings.

Edit: I just want it known that I feel dirty for using 'restaurant' and 'McDonalds' in the same sentence.


----------



## Fretless

Dayn said:


> Edit: I just want it known that I feel dirty for using 'restaurant' and 'McDonalds' in the same sentence.



You heathen!


----------



## Soya

I work for Taylor which supplies McDonald's with their grills and freezers, and I roll my eyes every time we have to refer to them as a "quick service" restaurant.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Soya said:


> I work for Taylor which supplies McDonald's with their grills and freezers, and I roll my eyes every time we have to refer to them as a "quick service" restaurant.


Hey, I see you are close to Unity Gain with posts/likes. Just trying to help.


----------



## Soya

You are a kind man.


----------



## j3ps3

Dayn said:


> Same reason franchises exist. You could start your own restaurant... or you could buy a McDonalds franchise along with all the customers that name brings.
> 
> Edit: I just want it known that I feel dirty for using 'restaurant' and 'McDonalds' in the same sentence.



I totally understand and that's the point. I'd much rather go the hard route and start my own restaurant and make a name for myself rather than be the top boss at McDonalds and only sell what I'm told to sell.

If money is not an issue, would you rather eat at McDonalds than a real restaurant?

..This is getting pretty far fetched, but whatever  It's just hard to get my point across, that's all. I just don't understand how people are so easily throwing their money at these guys.

Edit: It just gives me more trust when the head of the company actually knows his product inside out (for example Ola Strandberg - that's pretty much what Tosin's model's based on anyway IMO). I've worked at GC and even the greatest players are pretty easy to lead on to buy something that's not necessarily that good of a product.

I'm only speaking for myself, but when making an instrument, it's not about the profit for me. I just want the product to be as good as possible. To me the product is the music Tosin makes. Not instruments. He is already a big name inside the industry so it's easy to gather attention towards this and try to make a profit. Nothing wrong with that, but just not for me.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Just saying. Kiesel wouldn't have screwed you over like this @animalsasleader


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Well this got way lamer than expected after that monster few pages of insight, now we need another thread with more details on this PRS SEs switching factories business as that to me is something that deserves talking about, also less restaurant talk.


----------



## BigViolin

Speculation:

Perry realizes he stepped in it and just doesn't come back.

...or he's currently renting the largest excavator in Oz to come back and dig that f'er even deeper.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

Well, this is fun. 

I'd like to provide my experience here as a customer.

Disclosures: I was one of the first individuals to order an Abasi. I was also one of the first to order a Falbo ergo. I talk to Frank regularly -- he knows I'm posting here, but he doesn't know what I'm posting. He did not ask me to post here in any manner. I've tried to communicate with Tosin several times -- email, snail mail, phone, and even at two concerts where I waited but never saw him make an appearance after the show (post-Abasi Guitar order, trying to talk to him about order). I've never gotten a response from him on anything. Frank and I have talked business/industry details about Falbo Guitars before, so I have some limited non-public knowledge of it, and none of it is surprising or worrying, but out of respect I will keep private things private.

Proof: Due to the contentious nature of this issue, I'm not particularly interested in "outing" who I am. Sadly, any proof I could give would do so because there were so few individual orders. I could provide a receipt with _all_ info redacted -- name, date, dollar amount, order number, etc -- but that's not really proof, is it? Frank may come on here to vouch for me or may not -- that's his prerogative, and I'm not asking him to do so. Tosin wouldn't really have any way to provide proof of my story without me providing personal info for him to reference.

So, in short, I understand if you don't believe me. I'm not here to convince you -- I might not believe me if I were on the other side, either.

Intent: I'm not here to defend or bash either Frank or Tosin, though I do have my biases as indicated by where my money is. In the end, I just want a sick guitar . I'm also very frustrated that these kinds of situations happen so often in this industry, and I hope that, in some small way, speaking out with my experience as a customer will encourage more people in the industry in general to take steps to prevent more of this situations from happening in the future.

Storytime:
I emailed Abasi Guitars right after the 2018 NAMM announcement to talk about placing an order. I had previously followed Tosin's Ibanez prototypes and knew exactly what I wanted, so I was super excited to find out they'd be doing full custom builds. I hadn't heard of Frank before, but did some research about him being The Fluence Guy™ and his acoustics, and was really impressed. Frank gave me a call the same night and we talked for a couple of hours about exactly what I was looking for, got the initial build parameters set, and I placed a deposit.

Frank continued calling, texting, emailing me with pictures, updates, and questions at least every week or two. My initial deposit suggested a 5-8 week delivery, but I never actually expected it to hold up to that. I knew they would be too popular. A couple of months into the process, I happened to be traveling near Frank's shop, and he was gracious enough to allow me to visit and inspect my build progress in person. While I was there, I was able to even pick out my fretboard and plane it down together with him -- a truly cool experience.

Months passed and Frank kept in touch with updates, I kept visiting his shop whenever I was in the area to check out the progress. Every time I went, there was progress as promised, both on my guitar and the others in the shop. Frank was upfront in telling me that many of the guitars were for a distributor order, and due to their volume, they were higher priority than the individual orders. I was comfortable with that -- it makes business sense.

We still kept communicating about updates on the build and just general guitar nerd stuff. I kept visiting when I could. My guitar was *just* about to start finishing work -- Frank sent me some pictures of a few test stains to pick from -- when Frank informed me that things had gone wrong. He told me that the other people at Abasi Guitars waited until Frank had plans one evening to go into his workshop and take everything. They took my build along with all of the others, as well as some materials that were not part of Abasi orders, according to Frank. He didn't have any details other than this, and, at that time, had no communications with the rest of Abasi Guitars. He informed me that he filed a police report, but that I'd need to work out what was happening with my build with the remaining Abasi leadership, as he considered himself out of the scenario at this point. Particularly worrying was the fact that _only Frank knew how I wanted my guitar built._ Even if Abasi intended to finish it and deliver it to me, they didn't know what stain I wanted, strings, wiring, inlays, etc. I waited to hear from Abasi while putting together a request to send to them to get my build finished.

One thing that this thread, particularly the picture of the notice, reminded me of: I _very vaguely_ recall Frank mentioning at some point that there was a misunderstanding about the shop rent that was a problem he had to solve, but he wasn't worried about it beyond the extra time it would take him to fix when he could be building guitars. Because I didn't pay Frank for my build (everyone paid Abasi Guitars directly), I could see a scenario in which money has to pass from Abasi to Frank to the owner of the building, which could get hairy/complicated. Considering that I have visited Frank's shop since the date of the notice posted here, it's obvious that the no eviction ever took place and the problem was resolved. Looking up the case on Ventura's website, it appears that the landlord called off the eviction shortly after the notice was given.

I have not been able to independently confirm Frank's story. I'm not really even sure how I _could_. However, I don't have any evidence, even with all of the current drama, to leads me to believe that Frank deceived me at any time.

I requested that Abasi Guitars return my individual build to Frank for completion per the originally agreed terms at the time of deposit. After a few days, they refunded my deposit and told me to "stay tuned" for the opportunity to order another.

It is important to note, I believe, that _*I would never have known what happened to my build -- my money -- *_without Frank giving me a heads up. This is, in my view as a customer, the most egregious part of this story. I understand that Abasi had at least one large order along with some individuals and that the large order(s) would be prioritized, but completely taking my build -- which I had even worked on myself -- from the person who I understood to be finishing it, and the only person who had ever communicated to me within the company, _*without telling me in any way, even for days after it happened, *_is the height of irresponsibility. If a builder is late and communicating with me, I can handle that a lot easier than someone who takes my money and doesn't talk to me.

<END PART 1 OF 2>


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

<PART 2 OF 2>

Given the history that I had with Frank and his work at this point, I still wanted him to build me a guitar. With my refunded deposit, I continued to talk to him about what he could make for me -- classic styles mainly. However, he knew I was into the ergo guitars -- mainly Strandbergs -- and he said he wanted to still do something in that realm, and he had other frustrated Abasi customers that were still interested in a guitar from him, so I was excited. After a few days, he sent me some drawings and concepts of what he envisioned, and I was on board with another deposit.

I don't know for sure how he started up his idea, but even if the concept were inspired by Abasi Guitars (among *many* other makers), nothing leads me to believe that he actually used any IP or secrets from Abasi for what he is now doing. As an example, we have recently communicated about the body carve I'd like for my build. On the Abasi builds, the body carve was initially done on the CNC machine (as I saw when I watched my body get CNC'd), but he is currently doing the Falbo body carves by hand -- the CNC is only used for the body outline and routing. This leads me to believe that his CNC design/program, which I would think would be the core part of the IP question, is fully original. If it weren't, I would think he would have retained as much as possible from whatever it was based on, including the body carves. I am retaining the original neck joint design on my Falbo build, and it is my understanding that the design is Falbo's, especially since Abasi switched neck joint design after parting ways with Frank. My headstock is entirely different, and he worked with me to pick from a variety of possible designs, none of which were the same as the original Abasi.

The Japanese Abasis that I've seen being promoted recently appear to be the same builds taken from Frank's shop at various levels of progress. I've compared my personal photos from visits with those Abasi is using for promotion, and I can spot some that are the exact same. I believe I've also spotted my build, but it's possible that it's another build with similar specs and the next "slice" of the top wood I picked. I would be interested to see the neck joints on them. I'd also be very frustrated to find out that Abasi took my nearly-complete custom build, finished it, and is now selling it for much more than the originally agreed-upon price to someone completely unaware of its provenance and the potential issues that might come along with it.

It's been almost a year since I first placed my Abasi deposit. I expect it'll be another few months before my Falbo is finished, but I'm happy with the communication and would rather get it built properly than built fast. I don't have any interest in another Abasi at this point -- I strongly believe their new builder will not deliver the level of quality I expect, and their business practices do not make me want to give them any more money. If those were to change, I might be interested in one again. I still enjoy AAL music, but it's getting harder for me to listen to it these days without getting frustrated over this whole situation. My view of Tosin has soured, mainly due to the lack of communication; as much as I like Frank, I try to reserve judgement until hearing both sides of a story. From what I _do_ know, I think there's more than enough blame and mistakes to spread among all parties involved, but I really would have appreciated more communication from Abasi Guitars (other than Frank), and I'm sad as a guitar nerd to see yet another venture end up going this far south. I genuinely hope both Tosin and Frank end up successful in their respective ventures, but my opinion is that they would both be far more successful with someone that actually has a solid business management track record involved. Tosin is great at music and marketing, and Frank is great at making guitars, but neither of them are businessmen.

As you can see, this is my first post here. I'm not a forum guy and don't have much free time, so please don't expect me to hang out here for days contributing to drama. If there are any pointed questions that I can answer in the short term without exposing my exact identity or disclosing info I'm not allowed to, I will answer them to the best of my abilities.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

fascinating how yet again a brand new poster made an account solely to defend falbo, and yet again offers nothing but hearsay/anecdotal evidence. 

I've still yet to see something that actually refutes tosin's claims such as actual documentation or evidence, not a "woe is me" anecdote. 
If anything frank's silence on the matter (so far) and his vehement support by brand new accounts says a lot, none of it good.


----------



## xzacx

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> I don't have any interest in another Abasi at this point -- I strongly believe their new builder will not deliver the level of quality I expect



You saw those shoddy “early serial number” builds and thought THAT was the quality you expected over something now being headed by Grover Jackson? I get no longer wanting to deal with the company for other reasons, but that’s an interesting line of thinking in regards to actual instrument quality.


----------



## cip 123

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> <PART 2 OF 2>
> On the Abasi builds, the body carve was initially done on the CNC machine (as I saw when I watched my body get CNC'd), but he is currently doing the Falbo body carves by hand -- the CNC is only used for the body outline and routing. This leads me to believe that his CNC design/program, which I would think would be the core part of the IP question, is fully original. If it weren't, I would think he would have retained as much as possible from whatever it was based on, including the body carves. I am retaining the original neck joint design on my Falbo build, and it is my understanding that the design is Falbo's, especially since Abasi switched neck joint design after parting ways with Frank. My headstock is entirely different, and he worked with me to pick from a variety of possible designs, none of which were the same as the original Abasi.



Just want to say that it'd be simple to edit the original CNC file (IP) to just do the body outline and leave the carving to Frank. I'm not trying to take a side here, just stating that because yours is hand carved in no way give any real depth to the stolen IP debate. From my understanding anyway, if it's the Ergo double cut we saw a while back, it looks very similar in outline and could be the same outline cutting file.


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## iWantedAnAbasi

Sorry... quoting system here is confusing to me

>You saw those shoddy “early serial number” builds and thought THAT was the quality you expected over something now being headed by Grover Jackson? I get no longer wanting to deal with the company for other reasons, but that’s an interesting line of thinking in regards to actual instrument quality.

I did not see the NAMM guitars. I only ever saw builds in progress. I did see some discarded material from bad CNC runs or missed cuts, but for in-progress builds, I never saw any quality issues.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

cip 123 said:


> Just want to say that it'd be simple to edit the original CNC file (IP) to just do the body outline and leave the carving to Frank. I'm not trying to take a side here, just stating that because yours is hand carved in no way give any real depth to the stolen IP debate. From my understanding anyway, if it's the Ergo double cut we saw a while back, it looks very similar in outline and could be the same outline cutting file.



Yes, I agree that your guess could also be true, but I don't see a reason for doing that if the file were stolen.

My current build is similar to the one posted earlier in overall shape. My carve will be a little different, as well as other specs.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'm personally of the opinion that the designs are different enough to be unique. In the same way the that John Mayer PRS is inspired by a Strat, Falbo's designs also have inspiration from other guitars. At the end of the day, it's a strat body with a different curve along the bottom.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

KnightBrolaire said:


> fascinating how yet again a brand new poster made an account solely to defend falbo, and yet again offers nothing but hearsay/anecdotal evidence.
> 
> I've still yet to see something that actually refutes tosin's claims such as actual documentation or evidence, not a "woe is me" anecdote.
> If anything frank's silence on the matter (so far) and his vehement support by brand new accounts says a lot, none of it good.



I believe that I was very clear in making it known that Frank let me know about this debacle, and that my intent isn't to solely defend him. I don't think anything about this situation is good for the industry/community/customers/fans. I think that Frank is responsible for a lot of the problems around incorrect delivery estimates, cost anticipations, etc. I don't think those things are uncommon or unworkable for most small businesses/startups.

I haven't been reading this long enough to know what claims you'd like refuted. As a customer, I don't have access to finances or anything like that. As someone who knows Frank and visited often, I can tell you I saw guitars being made, I saw progress, and I didn't see any drastic quality issues.

I think Frank is smart to remain quiet. He doesn't have the resources to turn this into a legal battle, but it seems as though Tosin does. I'd shut up if I were in his spot, too.


----------



## cip 123

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Yes, I agree that your guess could also be true, but I don't see a reason for doing that if the file were stolen.
> 
> My current build is similar to the one posted earlier in overall shape. My carve will be a little different, as well as other specs.
> 
> I'm not a lawyer, but I'm personally of the opinion that the designs are different enough to be unique. In the same way the that John Mayer PRS is inspired by a Strat, Falbo's designs also have inspiration from other guitars. At the end of the day, it's a strat body with a different curve along the bottom.



All designs are derivative in some fashion imo and it's up to who made them to decide if they'd like to take legal action. When first posted I actually compared that it was very very similar to a Drinkwater guitar.

However it seems legal action will be involved at some point in this case and thus the reason for my comment. If Frank had the file, it's similar enough to make the case it's the same design. However it could also be argued it's derivative enough to be safe and in Franks favour.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

KnightBrolaire said:


> fascinating how yet again a brand new poster made an account solely to defend falbo, and yet again offers nothing but hearsay/anecdotal evidence.
> 
> I've still yet to see something that actually refutes tosin's claims such as actual documentation or evidence, not a "woe is me" anecdote.
> If anything frank's silence on the matter (so far) and his vehement support by brand new accounts says a lot, none of it good.


Has Tosin posted any evidence of the supposed embezzlement?


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

cip 123 said:


> All designs are derivative in some fashion imo and it's up to who made them to decide if they'd like to take legal action. When first posted I actually compared that it was very very similar to a Drinkwater guitar.
> 
> However it seems legal action will be involved at some point in this case and thus the reason for my comment. If Frank had the file, it's similar enough to make the case it's the same design. However it could also be argued it's derivative enough to be safe and in Franks favour.



I think we're agreed on all counts here. I don't have a full understanding of what files Frank had and when, but I do know he's put significant effort into his current design, and I have no reason to believe there was any IP theft involved. As far as I can tell, I'm not even sure Tosin has alleged that there was -- I think that might just be speculation among other users?


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

It should also be noted, re: embezzlement accusations -- I know Frank well enough now to be very confused as to how that could have come about. He never got fancy new tooling for the shop, never got a new car, never had any kind of extravagant purchases as far as I can tell. I keep telling him to upgrade from his ancient phone! Again, I don't know anything about the financial side of this, but I'd really like to know where people think the money went if it wasn't into the guitars.


----------



## BigViolin

Elysian, you think you are being clever, you are not.

Nobody is going to post the books here and you know that. You are just hurting your brand posting in this.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ElysianGuitars said:


> Has Tosin posted any evidence of the supposed embezzlement?


nothing besides what they posted in the original statement. frank hasn't posted anything that refutes any of the original allegations though.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

BigViolin said:


> Elysian, you think you are being clever, you are not.
> 
> Nobody is going to post the books here and you know that. You are just hurting your brand posting in this.


I know where I stand. I chose to post here under my brand, instead of using a burner account, because I've known about all of this for much longer than anyone here. Frank is my friend, and I know he's not lying, so my brand be damned, I will defend my friend from false accusations.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

KnightBrolaire said:


> nothing besides what they posted in the original statement. frank hasn't posted anything that refutes any of the original allegations though.


How do you refute embezzlement that never happened?

Tosin won't even go into details on their settlement. There's a reason for that.


----------



## skmanga

Does forum banter hold up in court?


----------



## cip 123

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> I think we're agreed on all counts here. I don't have a full understanding of what files Frank had and when, but I do know he's put significant effort into his current design, and I have no reason to believe there was any IP theft involved. As far as I can tell, I'm not even sure Tosin has alleged that there was -- I think that might just be speculation among other users?


See here - 



animalsasleader said:


> After all this…
> 
> 
> He announces a “new” ERG line of guitars that is clearly a re-worked version of our CAD files.
> 
> Previous to our relationship with Frank, Falbo Designs had only produced acoustic and semi-hollow guitars - NO extended range guitars, NO multi-scale guitars, NO headless guitars. Everything present in his new line of guitars is leeched off his former relationship with Abasi.
> 
> 
> Tosin & Ivan




It would be fairly easy "rework" a file so it's hard to tell how it originated, so it'd be hard to go "That's my design. That's my file." As you could look at the 2 guitars and see different dimensions etc. However the timing is suspect lending to Tosin's side. HOWEVER, working with Tosin's design could just have given Frank the spark to work on other designs and try new things he hasn't done his career which is absolutely fine, everyone wants to try new things in their line of work at some point.

Two sides, and all. I doubt we'll ever know all the gritty details. 

I will say, Tosin has more to lose than Frank imo so with that I'd be more inclined to be on his side. But only for that reason not due music or anything. Frank is on an uphill battle now, without evidence...This Forum has seen enough of the same stuff from luthiers, it's easy to pass quick judgement.


----------



## diagrammatiks

j3ps3 said:


> Of course you do, but I just don't like how these are sold pretty much by the name of the guy playing them. Ibanez signature series would've make more sense to me. Sure Tosin knows how to play them but I'd like the name on the headstock to be from the guy actually building the instrument (correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood these were more or less custom instruments?). Good player doesn't necessarily know if the instrument is good or bad. Good setup on a shit guitar can make a player go "this is the best guitar I've ever played", yet all the other aspects of the instrument are complete rubbish. At least, as a luthier I wouldn't want to make orders under someone else's name. Oh well, maybe I'm just jelly, that I don't have my own company
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't get, as a luthier, why would you want to make a custom instrument under someone else's name? To me this just seems like a cash grab under Tosin's name. And again, if it isn't a problem, why did Tosin mention that Frank had no previous experience under these kind of instruments? If you're gonna put you're name under a product you should've known better. Guitarist rarely really know what is needed for the guitar to play well. They do know if it does play well, or if it doesn't, but that's about it. At the lutherie school I was at, we had this joke that making a good guitar is about who can hide the errors along the way the best.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> Tosin and Ola already had a foot in the door so it's easier to run the business as pretty much everyone on the industry knows them. That doesn't mean they truly know what they're selling. Like I said, many guitarist' know if it is a player or not, but that's about it. Shit instrument can have a good setup and that's something that a lot of players are fooled by.
> 
> Oh, and I haven't actually played any of the instruments I'm talking about, so I don't really know about the quality. Just speculating



There’s literally no difference between this venture and Tosin working with Ibanez. You realize that right. He has an idea for what he wants for a guitar and someone skilled at making guitars makes it. Someone else handles the business side. It’s the exact same thing. 

In fact it’s riskier for Tosin to do it this way because he’s banking on the fact that his name has more marketing weight then the Ibanez brand. 

Look, I’m sure you build fine guitars. But I would really recommend pairing up with a business guy and a marketing guy in the future. 

This I’ll let my guitars stand on their own merit is an admirable and plucky attitude. It would great if the world actually worked like that. Unless you are a tueffel or rick toone you are one wrong turn away from being a brj or decibal


----------



## ElysianGuitars

cip 123 said:


> See here -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It would be fairly easy "rework" a file so it's hard to tell how it originated, so it'd be hard to go "That's my design. That's my file." As you could look at the 2 guitars and see different dimensions etc. However the timing is suspect lending to Tosin's side. HOWEVER, working with Tosin's design could just have given Frank the spark to work on other designs and try new things he hasn't done his career which is absolutely fine, everyone wants to try new things in their line of work at some point.
> 
> Two sides, and all. I doubt we'll ever know all the gritty details.
> 
> I will say, Tosin has more to lose than Frank imo so with that I'd be more inclined to be on his side. But only for that reason not due music or anything. Frank is on an uphill battle now, without evidence...*This Forum has seen enough of the same stuff from luthiers, it's easy to pass quick judgement.*


Why do you think Tosin posted this here instead of anywhere else? And speaking of timing, right before NAMM to tank Frank's ambitions and get sentiment on his side?


----------



## cip 123

BigViolin said:


> Elysian, you think you are being clever, you are not.
> 
> Nobody is going to post the books here and you know that. You are just hurting your brand posting in this.





ElysianGuitars said:


> I know where I stand. I chose to post here under my brand, instead of using a burner account, because I've known about all of this for much longer than anyone here. Frank is my friend, and I know he's not lying, so my brand be damned, I will defend my friend from false accusations.



I don't think there is anything wrong with Elysian posting here on whatever side he believes. If someone stumbles across thes posts and suddenly goes "I will never buy an Elysian" I don't think they ever really wanted one in the first place.

Plus Elysian clearly has a side, and a friend, I don't see anything wrong with sticking by them. Man of values, I don't see that hurting a brand.

(In fact I am now checking out Elysian guitars  Call the posts Advertising)


----------



## j3ps3

diagrammatiks said:


> There’s literally no difference between this venture and Tosin working with Ibanez. You realize that right. He has an idea for what he wants for a guitar and someone skilled at making guitars makes it. Someone else handles the business side. It’s the exact same thing.



No. Ibanez has been in the business much longer than Abasi. Ibanez has a reputation that Abasi doesn't (not yet at least).



diagrammatiks said:


> In fact it’s riskier for Tosin to do it this way because he’s banking on the fact that his name has more marketing weight then the Ibanez brand.



Disagree with this too. Yeah, he has more to lose, but also a lot more to invest. He's pretty much a household name in the industry now. He will survive the drop whereas Frank may not if things go bad.



diagrammatiks said:


> Look, I’m sure you build fine guitars. But I would really recommend pairing up with a business guy and a marketing guy in the future.
> 
> This I’ll let my guitars stand on their own merit is an admirable and plucky attitude. It would great if the world actually worked like that. Unless you are a tueffel or rick toone you are one wrong turn away from being a brj or decibal



Nice to compare me with the likes of BRJ and Decibel  Can't appreciate. I'm just pointing my opinion, not facts.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ElysianGuitars said:


> How do you refute embezzlement that never happened?
> 
> Tosin won't even go into details on their settlement. There's a reason for that.


i think you're missing the point, which is that frank deliberately chose not to respond to *any* of tosin's allegations in his statement. including the one that would have most directly affected customers (ie the qc issues). instead we got two shill accounts that have come to his aid, neither of which can substantiate their perspectives.
Less talk, more documentation, starting with the police report and surveillance footage of the "theft".


----------



## cip 123

ElysianGuitars said:


> Why do you think Tosin posted this here instead of anywhere else? And speaking of timing, right before NAMM to tank Frank's ambitions and get sentiment on his side?



Why here? Why the big ol' thread on his guitars is why  If he knew Frank was posting here, a forum which has time and time again seen luthier take money and ride off in to the sunset, the "warning" was fair play. His side of the story, after all that's how his original post ended a warning to future customers with his experience. And no one has refuted it with evidence yet. 

If Frank is a NAMM I assume he'll meet some of his friends there too who can decide their side too. If Frank and Tosin are at Namm they'll get both sides. Luthiers have probably known FRank longer than Tosin he's in good company.


----------



## cip 123

j3ps3 said:


> No. Ibanez has been in the business much longer than Abasi. Ibanez has a reputation that Abasi doesn't (not yet at least).


Which is why Abasi went with Frank, reputation for good high quality builds. Frank has been in the game for a long while too. Frank builds Tosin does business. 

The reputation of Abasi is Tosin. It's his name, his reputation. Tosin has long been out for high quality products since he started endorsing companies.

This is the same as Ibanez on a much smaller, and more high end scale.


----------



## BigViolin

Elysian,

Fair enough, I appreciate your response and respect your position. Maybe this never goes down if the communication were better and receipts were produced.

...and maybe you, in the past have trusted someone with big money and been cool with them not being able to produce receipts. I don't know. I'm guessing you would not be cool with it. I've been there, I wasn't.

I hope your trust in your friend isn't in vain, really.


----------



## diagrammatiks

j3ps3 said:


> No. Ibanez has been in the business much longer than Abasi. Ibanez has a reputation that Abasi doesn't (not yet at least).
> 
> 
> 
> Disagree with this too. Yeah, he has more to lose, but also a lot more to invest. He's pretty much a household name in the industry now. He will survive the drop whereas Frank may not if things go bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice to compare me with the likes of BRJ and Decibel  Can't appreciate. I'm just pointing my opinion, not facts.



Jesus dude. Tosin is not building the guitars. 

Ok whatever. I just palmed my entire face. Good luck.


----------



## Demiurge

ElysianGuitars said:


> Has Tosin posted any evidence of the supposed embezzlement?



Well, of course not, and it's not on Mr. Falbo to disprove it on teh internetz for an ever-growing audience of burner accounts, either. 

BUT I'm guessing that the posting of the eviction notice stuff was supposed indicate a poor financial situation which- while not proving anything exactly- makes an accusation of financial irresponsibility or underhandedness easier for people here to believe.


----------



## j3ps3

cip 123 said:


> Which is why Abasi went with Frank, reputation for good high quality builds. Frank has been in the game for a long while too. Frank builds Tosin does business.
> 
> The reputation of Abasi is Tosin. It's his name, his reputation. Tosin has long been out for high quality products since he started endorsing companies.
> 
> This is the same as Ibanez on a much smaller, and more high end scale.



Apparently the reputation for making instruments like this was zero? At least that's what Tosin said. So not really.


----------



## Soya

j3ps3 said:


> Nice to compare me with the likes of BRJ and Decibel  Can't appreciate. I'm just pointing my opinion, not facts.



He wasn't comparing you to them. Why so defensive?


----------



## cip 123

j3ps3 said:


> Apparently the reputation for making instruments like this was zero? At least that's what Tosin said. So not really.


Dude do you know who Frank is and what he was involved in?

He has a reputation for building high quality instruments, acoustic and semi acoustic. Imo harder instruments to build than full electric guitars. Worked for Seymour Duncan (Thanks @HeHasTheJazzHands  ) He also had a big hand in designing Fishman Fluence pickups which are revolutionary in the pickup world. I'd absolutely put him in the running to build my guitars if I was in Tosin's lucky position. Frank has a solid reputation for instruments, and a solid reputation for innovation.

Here's how the Ibanez model worked - Tosin "I have an idea" - Ibanez "We'll build it" - Tosin "I'll market it!"

Here's how the Abasi model worked - Tosin "I have an idea" - Frank/Abasi "I'll build it" - Tosin "I'll market it!"

I'm sorry, it's simple business planning.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

cip 123 said:


> Dude do you know who Frank is and what he was involved in?
> 
> He has a reputation for building high quality instruments, acoustic and semi acoustic. Imo harder instruments to build than full electric guitars. He also had a big hand in designing Fishman Fluence pickups which are revolutionary in the pickup world. I'd absolutely prior put him in the running to build my guitars if I was in Tosin's lucky position. Frank has a solid reputation for instruments, and a solid reputation for innovation.
> 
> Here's how the Ibanez model worked - Tosin "I have an idea" - Ibanez "We'll build it" - Tosin "I'll market it!"
> 
> Here's how the Abasi model worked - Tosin "I have an idea" - Frank/Abasi "I'll build it" - Tosin "I'll market it!"
> 
> I'm sorry, it's simple business planning.



Dude also worked for Seymour Duncan as well.


----------



## A-Branger

j3ps3 said:


> No. Ibanez has been in the business much longer than Abasi. Ibanez has a reputation that Abasi doesn't (not yet at least).



you know that one of the reasons why Tosin venture into his own thing was so he could make his guitar the way(S) he wanted no?

Ibanez could be an amazing company, but you only know whats pressented each year at NAMM, theres way more stuff behind doors you have no idea that might be happening, you dnt know what were relationships between Tosin and Ibanez.

plus Ibanez being Ibanez were gonna release 1, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe 2 models. Which they were gonna be similar to his prototypes, and with a price tag similar to his previous model (or like the Meshugah prestige), which is a big price for a production guitar, meaning, I rather spend that money with Abasi and get something like I want, and at least some kind of "custom shop" feel, even if it only means that I choose the color. Plus you would be 100% locked inot an 8 string, forget 6/7/tremolo/multiscale/regular/headless/ect

Then maaaaaaybe next year, or the next we would see an indo version of the guitar, which would be a waaaaay too stripped down version of his Prestige (similar to his RG), then maaaaybe the year after, or the next, we would see a production with a wood top as we would prob have seen him rocking a LACS for years before Ibanez decided to give the green light.

Just have a look how long they have taken to release a JB in white.

He decided to created his own thing so he could sell this guitar in every finish he wanted (plus many reasons like $ and owning his own bussiness ect ect)


----------



## ElysianGuitars

BigViolin said:


> Elysian,
> 
> Fair enough, I appreciate your response and respect your position. Maybe this never goes down if the communication were better and receipts were produced.
> 
> ...and maybe you, in the past have trusted someone with big money and been cool with them not being able to produce receipts. I don't know. I'm guessing you would not be cool with it. I've been there, I wasn't.
> 
> *I hope your trust in your friend isn't in vain, really.*


I have said as much to Frank, but I'm confident it's not.


----------



## RiksRiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> The guitars in stores are the ones Frank was working on. They still have the old neck heel.



When you say "in stores" do you mean these ones?



Avedas said:


> Been away a few days; this thread was a ride.
> 
> Anyway, the new Abasi models are available here now and once again selling at ~600k JPY so I will not be buying one.
> 
> Here's to 2020 lmao
> 
> PS. Here's a link for my fellow Japanese-literate SSO'ers (or people who can use Google translate)
> https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop60/DS05093776/
> 
> The weird old racist asshole guy must not have been working at G-Club that day.



Because while there are certainly a lot of the Falbo made Abasi (they show in the digimart search) They are acknowledged as such in their description, somewhere along the lines of "made by Frank Falbo etc."

BUT

if you keep scrolling, there's the new models, and they even say Larada in the product description already, and their photos seem to be from Tosin's visit to Japan (I believe he still is here as of January 20th) and the description no longer lists Falbo as the luthier and instead just says made in the USA.

So maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you implying that these Laradas are also guitars that Frank was working on? And being uncredited for? I certainly hope not. But I guess you were referring just to the ones already listed in digimart from before.



Jeff said:


> Last year. PRS was pissed that they were having significant quality control issues with WMI stuff, now that they’ve become the world’s East Asian factory de jour



We need a separate thread for this, I recently tried a MII PRS and it was pretty solid, I was very impressed, but I don't know if this has anything to do with them quitting WMI


----------



## j3ps3

diagrammatiks said:


> Jesus dude. Tosin is not building the guitars.
> 
> Ok whatever. I just palmed my entire face. Good luck.



Yup, was talking about Abasi Concepts.




Soya said:


> He wasn't comparing you to them. Why so defensive?



I am not a native in english so it takes me a looong time to read and write this stuff and some times I can get something wrong, so sorry, if I understood something incorrectly. 

I got defensive, because it sounded like I'm never gonna be as good as the top builders in the business and everybody who's not gonna be as big as them are gonna end up the route BRJ did sooner or later. Again, sorry if I got something wrong. I'm not trying to pick a fight, just voicing my opinion on the matter.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

KnightBrolaire said:


> i think you're missing the point, which is that frank deliberately chose not to respond to *any* of tosin's allegations in his statement. including the one that would have most directly affected customers (ie the qc issues). instead we got two shill accounts that have come to his aid, neither of which can substantiate their perspectives.
> Less talk, more documentation, starting with the police report and surveillance footage of the "theft".


Because one side is still attempting to live up to the settlement agreement.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

RiksRiks said:


> When you say "in stores" do you mean these ones?
> 
> 
> 
> Because while there are certainly a lot of the Falbo made Abasi (they show in the digimart search) They are acknowledged as such in their description, somewhere along the lines of "made by Frank Falbo etc."
> 
> BUT
> 
> if you keep scrolling, there's the new models, and they even say Larada in the product description already, and their photos seem to be from Tosin's visit to Japan (I believe he still is here as of January 20th) and the description no longer lists Falbo as the luthier and instead just says made in the USA.
> 
> So maybe I'm misunderstanding but are you implying that these Laradas are also guitars that Frank was working on? And being uncredited for? I certainly hope not. But I guess you were referring just to the ones already listed in digimart from before.
> 
> 
> 
> We need a separate thread for this, I recently tried a MII PRS and it was pretty solid, I was very impressed, but I don't know if this has anything to do with them quitting WMI


Those guitars have Frank's heel. They were likely finished by Grover, but anything with that scooped heel is Frank's.


----------



## diagrammatiks

j3ps3 said:


> Yup, was talking about Abasi Concepts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not a native in english so it takes me a looong time to read and write this stuff and some times I can get something wrong, so sorry, if I understood something incorrectly.
> 
> I got defensive, because it sounded like I'm never gonna be as good as the top builders in the business and everybody who's not gonna be as big as them are gonna end up the route BRJ did sooner or later. Again, sorry if I got something wrong. I'm not trying to pick a fight, just voicing my opinion on the matter.



What. Tosin has never built a guitar for Abasi concepts. 

I don’t care how good of a luthier you are. It’s like the least relevant part of running a business. That’s what I’m trying to tell you.


----------



## j3ps3

cip 123 said:


> Dude do you know who Frank is and what he was involved in?
> 
> He has a reputation for building high quality instruments, acoustic and semi acoustic. Imo harder instruments to build than full electric guitars. Worked for Seymour Duncan (Thanks @HeHasTheJazzHands  ) He also had a big hand in designing Fishman Fluence pickups which are revolutionary in the pickup world. I'd absolutely put him in the running to build my guitars if I was in Tosin's lucky position. Frank has a solid reputation for instruments, and a solid reputation for innovation.
> 
> Here's how the Ibanez model worked - Tosin "I have an idea" - Ibanez "We'll build it" - Tosin "I'll market it!"
> 
> Here's how the Abasi model worked - Tosin "I have an idea" - Frank/Abasi "I'll build it" - Tosin "I'll market it!"
> 
> I'm sorry, it's simple business planning.



Yeah and if I was Tosin I would've hired someone who has a reputation of making the kind of instrument I'm going to market. No doubt on how good Frank is, but acoustics and electrics are totally different beasts. I'm just saying, if it was me, I would've hired someone who has more experience on building the kind of instrument I'm going to sell. The quality issues aren't entirely on Frank. Of course you should be able to trust a good builder, but a situation like this isn't something where I would make a gamble.


----------



## narad

j3ps3 said:


> I got defensive, because it sounded like I'm never gonna be as good as the top builders in the business and everybody who's not gonna be as big as them are gonna end up the route BRJ did sooner or later.



Let's not conflate being skilled with being successful with being responsible. No one has to go down that road at all, and if that's your way of thinking, save us all the trouble and stop trying to be a luthier now!


----------



## cip 123

j3ps3 said:


> Yeah and if I was Tosin I would've hired someone who has a reputation of making the kind of instrument I'm going to market. No doubt on how good Frank is, but acoustics and electrics are totally different beasts. I'm just saying, if it was me, I would've hired someone who has more experience on building the kind of instrument I'm going to sell. The quality issues aren't entirely on Frank. Of course you should be able to trust a good builder, but a situation like this isn't something where I would make a gamble.



Sorry man but everything you say is just uninformed massively on the business side. Frank made prototypes, any company or trader would have prototypes made before going in to full production.

There were prototypes that Tosin was so happy with he decided to build a company on top of their success. 


He didn't just choose Frank. He looked at what Frank had done, and they talked, they prototyped, and made a business which Frank was a part of share wise. 

Regardless of the Instruments he is known for, he is known to be a top tier luthier, an innovator, and clearly build prototypes good enough for Tosin to feel comfortable going in to business with him. 

I really want to help you understand but I don't know where you're not getting it, it's very simple. I sadly can't speak Finnish if that would help


----------



## j3ps3

diagrammatiks said:


> What. Tosin has never built a guitar for Abasi concepts.
> 
> I don’t care how good of a luthier you are. It’s like the least relevant part of running a business. That’s what I’m trying to tell you.



I can't even remember what we were arguing about so maybe it's better to stop  I know Tosin hasn't made any guitars and that's the thing that makes me skeptical in the first place and I wondered how there's no one else feeling the same, as I'd like the head of the company to know the product of his inside and out, and players rarely do know that much about instruments. Again, nothing wrong with that, but with the +3000 price range, I'd go somewhere else, and just wondered out loud if I'm the only one feeling this way.

As a customer I would just want more bang for my buck.


----------



## cip 123

j3ps3 said:


> I know Tosin hasn't made any guitars and that's the thing that makes me skeptical in the first place and I wondered how there's no one else feeling the same, as I'd like the head of the company to know the product of his inside and out, and players rarely do know that much about instruments.




Leo fender, couldn't play guitar. People still bought fender even though he couldn't test it.

I wanna make this point as clear as possible. Elon musk doesn't build every Tesla. But he damn sure knows every part of it.

Frank Falbo doesn't build every fishman fluence pickup, but he damn sure knows every part of it.

Tosin designed the guitar, I've seen photos he posted of CAD files. He has been involved in multiple signature pickups and signature gear. He damn sure knows how his guitars go together.


Tosin has long been playing quality gear, why he would suddenly play bad guitars just to have his name on the headstock is crazy. He doesn't have to build every guitar. He doesn't have to build one. He doesn't have to QC every guitar. That's why he had Frank. Abasi concepts is a business, not a person.

No one else is skeptical because everyone knows how a business works.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yup, Leo never played guitar. He did what I said earlier; consulted with people that *actually knew what they were doing. *

While we're at it; did Ted McCarty ever play guitar?


----------



## animalsasleader

ElysianGuitars said:


> Because one side is still attempting to live up to the settlement agreement.



Why would I violate a settlement agreement that was drafted by MY lawyers?


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

cip 123 said:


> No one else is skeptical because everyone knows how a business works. Tosin is the Head, and people work for him. A builder is one of those people.



Just to be clear, at least from my understanding -- Frank wasn't a "builder", he was a co-owner of the business. Sure, I'd be willing to be Tosin owned a lot more of it than him, but Frank wasn't Tosin's employee. Frank had a team of people under him assisting with builds, but to my knowledge Frank didn't even draw any kind of salary or labor costs (for himself -- the others were paid) from the Abasi project.


----------



## diagrammatiks

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Just to be clear, at least from my understanding -- Frank wasn't a "builder", he was a co-owner of the business. Sure, I'd be willing to be Tosin owned a lot more of it than him, but Frank wasn't Tosin's employee. Frank had a team of apprentices under him assisting with builds, but to my knowledge Frank didn't even draw any kind of salary or labor costs (for himself -- the others were paid) from the Abasi project.




If frank oversaw the building then he is the head builder or product manager. It’s his job to oversee the building. Whether or not he draws a salary is relevant only to the terms of the partnership agreement.


----------



## j3ps3

cip 123 said:


> Leo fender, couldn't play guitar. People still bought fender even though he couldn't test it.
> 
> I wanna make this point as clear as possible. Elon musk doesn't build every Tesla. But he damn sure knows every part of it.
> 
> Frank Falbo doesn't build every fishman fluence pickup, but he damn sure knows every part of it.
> 
> Tosin designed the guitar, I've seen photos he posted of CAD files. He has been involved in multiple signature pickups and signature gear. He damn sure knows how his guitars go together.
> 
> Tosin has long been playing quality gear, why he would suddenly play bad guitars just to have his name on the headstock is crazy. He doesn't have to build every guitar. He doesn't have to build one. He doesn't have to QC every guitar. That's why he had Frank. Abasi concepts is a business, not a person.
> 
> No one else is skeptical because everyone knows how a business works. Tosin is the Head, and people work for him. A builder is one of those people.



I really don't have that much good things to say about the vintage Fenders as instruments through my experiences. Design though, is one of the best if not the best.

I know how the business work, we've studied this and visited multiple builders here in Finland.

I'm not bashing Tosin as a player, we all know how great he is. I'm just saying that as a customer, I would be much more in ease, if the guy with the last say on things would be the one who designed the instrument thoroughly and knows everything about it (I'm talking about stuff like how fast the sound goes through the blank of wood you happen to choose and all little details like that). There's so much stuff that only the builder will know about the instrument and with a custom guitar I'd like to get an experience where I can talk with the builder about every little detail of the instrument. Again, nothing wrong with this business model, I would just prefer to work directly with the builder, you know?


----------



## cip 123

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Just to be clear, at least from my understanding -- Frank wasn't a "builder", he was a co-owner of the business. Sure, I'd be willing to be Tosin owned a lot more of it than him, but Frank wasn't Tosin's employee. Frank had a team of apprentices under him assisting with builds, but to my knowledge Frank didn't even draw any kind of salary or labor costs (for himself -- the others were paid) from the Abasi project.




You're right I shouldn't state roles as I don't know much about the business itself. I've removed it to save any confusion.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

animalsasleader said:


> Why would I violate a settlement agreement that was drafted by MY lawyers?


Why would you settle with someone guilty of embezzlement?

That's not an answer either, it's a dodge.


----------



## Dayn

ElysianGuitars said:


> Why would you settle with someone guilty of embezzlement?


Police prosecute the criminal aspects. There are civil aspects here that, if you can settle, you do. Why fight when you can agree to settle?


----------



## cip 123

ElysianGuitars said:


> Why would you settle with someone guilty of embezzlement?
> 
> That's not an answer either, it's a dodge.



Violent offenders reach settlements, it's not too farfetched.

(In no way implicating anyone in such a crime obviously, just stating that settlements are reached for a variety of reasons regardless of the crime/evidence)

However to provide balance, the settlement could commit Frank to some form of NDA (Hence his silence) while leaving Tosin free. I hope that is not the case, and Tosin isn't out simply for character assassination. 

I'm just hoping to see the whole truth at some point while both stay out of as much legal trouble as possible.

(Though if this keeps up much longer I'm gonna cancel my Netflix, this is much more intriguing)


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> Why would you settle with someone guilty of embezzlement?
> 
> That's not an answer either, it's a dodge.



Why wouldn’t you settle for something that really only amounts to petty larceny in the eyes of the court. 

Boutique guitars aren’t exactly an 8 figure business.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

diagrammatiks said:


> Why wouldn’t you settle for something that really only amounts to petty larceny in the eyes of the court.
> 
> Boutique guitars aren’t exactly an 8 figure business.


"An infraction carries a $250 fine. A felony embezzlement conviction is much more severe. *If you are convicted of felony embezzlement for taking more than $950 in property, you could be sentenced to 16 months, 2 or 3 years in county jail and face fines of up to $10,000."*

https://www.wklaw.com/embezzlement-become-felony-california-pc-503/

California takes embezzlement seriously, it's a serious charge. As far as I know, there are no pending criminal charges.

However, if I were about to be arrested for a robbery, I'd want my lawyers to pitch a settlement too.


This whole thing is pretty transparent, really. Tosin wasn't going to say a word, Frank was going to continue building guitars, until it was obvious Frank was going to continue making ergos. Tosin worked up 3 examples that made Frank look bad (some of them already known, like the quality issues), and basically said that was enough to make this other, very serious charge true, without any evidence, and people are accepting that. Tosin's mission to hurt Frank's business is working swimmingly. Tosin doesn't care about the community, he's using the community as a means to an end.


----------



## animalsasleader

ElysianGuitars said:


> Because one side is still attempting to live up to the settlement agreement.





ElysianGuitars said:


> Why would you settle with someone guilty of embezzlement?



Dude. The main focus of the settlement was to remove Frank from the company. We’re pursuing the embezzlement claim separately, as it has civil and criminal implications.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

animalsasleader said:


> Dude. The main focus of the settlement was to remove Frank from the company. We’re pursuing the embezzlement claim separately, as it has civil and criminal implications.


Did you pay Frank in this settlement?


----------



## frank falbo

I think I can clear up a few things without adding to the drama. Just a data dump because I see some questions about some non-critical points.

Yes the load of guitars in Japan now seems to be all the ones built here, but not completed here. They were removed before completion and the final paint and assembly done in Japan as I understand it. I don’t think Tosin has said anything to the contrary.

Yes I was part owner in the company, I am not anymore.

It was not reciprocal. They were never part owner in my company. That was a B2B relationship. (although convoluted as you can imagine)

I’ve been making electric guitars for decades. I launched my brand with acoustics first because of the patent on the bridge design. It was always the strategy to go Acoustics > Hollowbodies > Solidbodies. Tosin didn’t choose an untested builder who hadn’t made multiscales or extended range guitars. I’ve been a member here since nearly the beginning and got my first 7 string in 1991, and my first 8 several years back.

I don’t mean this as self aggrandizement, but to stop the suggestions that Tosin was foolish for using an “acoustic” luthier to make his solidbodies. The point he was trying to make by saying that Falbo hadn’t released solidbodies, multiscales, or ERG’s (although it happened to be false) was in regard to the market timing of my release.

I’ve had the new hardware and the guitar in the can for awhile now. Honestly I waited to release it by a couple months, believing that they’d announce the details of their run first. I just couldn’t wait any longer. The NAMM cycle had started, it’s a 2019 model. As I said in earlier threads before this went nuclear, well wishes all around regarding all business ventures.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ElysianGuitars said:


> Did you pay Frank in this settlement?


why would they compensate him if he's an alleged embezzler and they allegedly made no profit on the partnership?


----------



## ramses

ElysianGuitars said:


> (some of them already known, like the quality issues)



How is this good for your friend's new line of guitars?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

ramses said:


> How is this good for your friend's new line of guitars?


It was pretty obvious Frank was working on the issues. I've played his guitars, I know what he's capable of.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

KnightBrolaire said:


> why would they compensate him if he's an alleged embezzler and they allegedly made no profit on the partnership?


That's an excellent question.


----------



## cip 123

I think we can all agree if anyones been stolen from...

It's Jeff Kiesel. Just look at those Bevels.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

cip 123 said:


> I think we can all agree if anyones been stolen from...
> 
> It's Jeff Kiesel. Just look at those Bevels.


How have bevels not been renamed to Kiesels at this point?


----------



## axxessdenied

I can't look away! *eats popcorn*


----------



## cip 123

ElysianGuitars said:


> How have bevels not been renamed to Kiesels at this point?



It's either that or Jevels


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> "An infraction carries a $250 fine. A felony embezzlement conviction is much more severe. *If you are convicted of felony embezzlement for taking more than $950 in property, you could be sentenced to 16 months, 2 or 3 years in county jail and face fines of up to $10,000."*
> 
> https://www.wklaw.com/embezzlement-become-felony-california-pc-503/
> 
> California takes embezzlement seriously, it's a serious charge. As far as I know, there are no pending criminal charges.
> 
> However, if I were about to be arrested for a robbery, I'd want my lawyers to pitch a settlement too.
> 
> 
> This whole thing is pretty transparent, really. Tosin wasn't going to say a word, Frank was going to continue building guitars, until it was obvious Frank was going to continue making ergos. Tosin worked up 3 examples that made Frank look bad (some of them already known, like the quality issues), and basically said that was enough to make this other, very serious charge true, without any evidence, and people are accepting that. Tosin's mission to hurt Frank's business is working swimmingly. Tosin doesn't care about the community, he's using the community as a means to an end.



I understand that’s what the law says. The keyword there is could. No one is doing a full court press on 950. Also this doesn’t take care of the parternship equity. This is only a criminal proceeding. Equity has to be taken care of separately. So either you need to settle fast or have the entire set of issues dragged out in the courts. 

The other issue is that like none of this actually makes Frank look good. It also doesn’t answer any of the issues raised by Tosin. At best Tosin is also a dirtbag and bad at business. I mean ok. 



KnightBrolaire said:


> why would they compensate him if he's an alleged embezzler and they allegedly made no profit on the partnership?



That’s not really how that works. The two issues are entirely separate. Unless terms were explicitly stated in the partnership agreement, forgetting that you borrowed some money is no different then being really bad at your job. Firable offenses for employees but they have no bearing on the equity split. That has to be taken care of separately. The shares have to be rescinded or the entire venture has to be dissolved. 

This is also why you pick start-up partners very very very carefully. 

And also why you really shouldn’t use your own damn name for your company. Because unless a settlement is reached you straight up lose it without a legal battle.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

animalsasleader said:


> We’re pursuing the embezzlement claim separately, as it has civil and criminal implications.



Have you filed a police report or civil charges? If so, in what jurisdiction(s)?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

diagrammatiks said:


> I understand that’s what the law says. The keyword there is could. No one is doing a full court press on 950. Also this doesn’t take care of the parternship equity. This is only a criminal proceeding. Equity has to be taken care of separately. So either you need to settle fast or have the entire set of issues dragged out in the courts.
> 
> The other issue is that like none of this actually makes Frank look good. It also doesn’t answer any of the issues raised by Tosin. At best Tosin is also a dirtbag and bad at business. I mean ok.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s not really how that works. The two issues are entirely separate. Unless terms were explicitly stated in the partnership agreement, forgetting that you borrowed some money is no different then being really bad at your job. Firable offenses for employees but they have no bearing on the equity split. That has to be taken care of separately. The shares have to be rescinded or the entire venture has to be dissolved.
> 
> This is also why you pick start-up partners very very very carefully.
> 
> And also why you really shouldn’t use your own damn name for your company. Because unless a settlement is reached you straight up lose it without a legal battle.


He's alleging thousands of dollars of embezzlement, $13k I think I saw? That's a lot of money, and felony embezzlement per California law.


----------



## xzacx

ElysianGuitars said:


> Tosin's mission to hurt Frank's business is working swimmingly. Tosin doesn't care about the community, he's using the community as a means to an end.



When's the last time anyone here was talking about Frank's guitars on here prior to this endeavor? All that extra "rubbing compound" and rushing sub-par instruments out the door seemed to do plenty to hurt his reputation before this fiasco. Also, I don't think anyone here has denied missed deadlines—is that not him hurting his own business? I've listened to AAL exactly once and turned it off within about 30 seconds, so it's not like I'm shilling for Tosin here. But from where I stand, even if we don't have the whole story, I don't see how Frank himself doesn't bear some of this blame himself, regardless of the rest.


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> He's alleging thousands of dollars of embezzlement, $13k I think I saw? That's a lot of money, and felony embezzlement per California law.



I don’t know the particulars. Tosin said above they were pursuing separate action. Legally that makes sense the criminal issue and the partner ship issue are distinct. 

For me personally the only reason I’d pursue the criminal side at all is if any equity issues were contingent on the proceedings. Otherwise it’s not a lot of money. But that’s up to the inidividual.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

xzacx said:


> When's the last time anyone here was talking about Frank's guitars on here prior to this endeavor? All that extra "rubbing compound" and rushing sub-par instruments out the door seemed to do plenty to hurt his reputation before this fiasco. Also, I don't think anyone here has denied missed deadlines—is that not him hurting his own business?


I've been a guitar builder since 2006, a pickup builder since 2015. Missing deadlines happens, whether it's one guy or a multimillion dollar manufacturer like the one I used to work at.


----------



## xzacx

ElysianGuitars said:


> I've been a guitar builder since 2006, a pickup builder since 2015. Missing deadlines happens, whether it's one guy or a multimillion dollar manufacturer like the one I used to work at.



Who's argued against that point? Does that mean it doesn't hurt one's reputation regardless?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

xzacx said:


> Who's argued against that point? Does that mean it doesn't hurt one's reputation regardless?


Of course, and in this case it was used as a smear, to say this other thing is true without supporting evidence.


----------



## animalsasleader

ElysianGuitars said:


> He's alleging thousands of dollars of embezzlement, $13k I think I saw? That's a lot of money, and felony embezzlement per California law.


Bingo!


----------



## ElysianGuitars

animalsasleader said:


> Bingo!


So did you pay Frank in the settlement?


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

animalsasleader said:


> Bingo!



So then what court is the case active in? Or which PD/sheriff is investigating? I'm sure a few here are interested enough to pay some records request fees. Then we can all prove you right here, correct?


----------



## narad

God, we don't care if he paid Frank in the settlement...


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> So did you pay Frank in the settlement?



I still don’t understand the point you are making here. 

If the settlement dissolved the parternship you have to compensate the other party. It’s an entirely different set of issues.


----------



## diagrammatiks

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> So then what court is the case active in? Or which PD/sheriff is investigating? I'm sure a few here are interested enough to pay some records request fees. Then we can all prove you right here, correct?



Silly first poster. You can’t trick someone into releasing the details of an open criminal investigation.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

diagrammatiks said:


> I still don’t understand the point you are making here.
> 
> If the settlement dissolved the parternship you have to compensate the other party. It’s an entirely different set of issues.


If he can prove embezzlement, why would he settle for any kind of payout? It matters.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

diagrammatiks said:


> Silly first poster. You can’t trick someone into releasing the details of an open criminal investigation.


If there are public records, he can certainly give us information.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

diagrammatiks said:


> Silly first poster. You can’t trick someone into releasing the details of an open criminal investigation.



Records are public. If charges are filed or police are investigating, records requests can be made by any member of the public.


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> If he can prove embezzlement, why would he settle for any kind of payout? It matters.



Because it doesn’t matter what the crime is.

Unless it is stated explicitly in the partnership agreement that any embezzlement automatically voids the agreement. 

Otherwise the embezzlement only acts as a catalyst for the dissolution of the partnership. 

The crime does not matter. Your shares in the equity have their own value that have to be compensated for or settled for.


----------



## xzacx

ElysianGuitars said:


> Of course, and in this case it was used as a smear, to say this other thing is true without supporting evidence.



It seems to me that guitars not being completed on time was at the very least a catalyst for some of the issues here—I don't know how that makes it a smear?


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

diagrammatiks said:


> I still don’t understand the point you are making here.
> 
> If the settlement dissolved the parternship you have to compensate the other party. It’s an entirely different set of issues.



I've had to deal with two settlements in my lifetime. Both had HUGE indemnity clauses for both parties. Essentially, when you make a settlement, you want to make sure neither will come back asking for more, so they always include a paragraph of legalese saying "party A hereby agrees to never persue any claims of any type against party B regarding anything up until this date". Assuming a similar agreement was signed here, there is no civil claim to be made any longer, and any criminal complaint would presumably had to have been made before the settlement. In fact, suggesting that someone was a criminal or committed embezzlement... may be a massive violation of the settlement agreement. Which leads me to wonder, why would anyone go to a forum to make these claims?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> I've had to deal with two settlements in my lifetime. Both had HUGE indemnity clauses for both parties. Essentially, when you make a settlement, you want to make sure neither will come back asking for more, so they always include a paragraph of legalese saying "party A hereby agrees to never persue any claims of any type against party B regarding anything up until this date". Assuming a similar agreement was signed here, there is no civil claim to be made any longer, and any criminal complaint would presumably had to have been made before the settlement.


Yeah, pretty much.


----------



## diagrammatiks

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> I've had to deal with two settlements in my lifetime. Both had HUGE indemnity clauses for both parties. Essentially, when you make a settlement, you want to make sure neither will come back asking for more, so they always include a paragraph of legalese saying "party A hereby agrees to never persue any claims of any type against party B regarding anything up until this date". Assuming a similar agreement was signed here, there is no civil claim to be made any longer, and any criminal complaint would presumably had to have been made before the settlement. In fact, suggesting that someone was a criminal or committed embezzlement... may be a massive violation of the settlement agreement.



Again I’m not privy to how the actual settlement went down and what you said is exactly how we’d do it. The embezzled amount or crime is nothing compared to making sure equity returns to the company in case of a partnership melt down. 

But that’s not really the point I was answering at all. 

What you said has no bearing on compensation.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

diagrammatiks said:


> Again I’m not privy to how the actual settlement went down and what you said is exactly how we’d do it. The embezzled amount or crime is nothing compared to making sure equity returns to the company in case of a partnership melt down.
> 
> But that’s not really the point I was answering at all.
> 
> What you said has no bearing on compensation.



An agreement that includes compensation to one party and a large indemnity clause would imply that the one receiving compensation wouldn't have possibly stolen anything from the one giving the compensation. Or, in the worst case, that the party receiving the compensation at least contributed more equity than they caused in damages. Otherwise, they wouldn't receive compensation and/or there would be specific exceptions in the indemnity clause. Otherwise, why settle at all? In theory you want to at least keep open any options that would make you whole if you felt wronged.


----------



## Dayn

diagrammatiks said:


> Again I’m not privy to how the actual settlement went down and what you said is exactly how we’d do it. The embezzled amount or crime is nothing compared to making sure equity returns to the company in case of a partnership melt down.
> 
> But that’s not really the point I was answering at all.
> 
> What you said has no bearing on compensation.


I just wanted to quote this to reinforce the fact that a criminal investigation has no bearing on whether or not to agree to dissolve your partnership. *None*. It needs to be wound up one way or another. Of _course_ there'll be a settlement if they agree. This is the fundamental process of winding it up.


----------



## diagrammatiks

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> An agreement that includes compensation to one party and a large indemnity clause would imply that the one receiving compensation wouldn't have possibly stolen anything from the one giving the compensation. Or, in the worst case, that the party receiving the compensation at least contributed more equity than they caused in damages. Otherwise, they wouldn't receive compensation and/or there would be specific exceptions in the indemnity clause. Otherwise, why settle at all? In theory you want to at least keep open any options that would make you whole if you felt wronged.



Absolutely untrue. The reason people settle is that a settlement offers a quicker and cheaper resolution the problem compared to a full blown court case. 

Again. I don’t know how to make this any clearer. The embezzlement and other issues might act as a catalyst but they have no actual bearing on how a partnership is dissolved unless the terms were explicitly stated in the terms of the initial parternship agreement.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

diagrammatiks said:


> Absolutely untrue. The reason people settle is that a settlement offers a quicker and cheaper resolution the problem compared to a full blown court case.
> 
> Again. I don’t know how to make this any clearer. The embezzlement and other issues might act as a catalyst but they have no actual bearing on how a partnership is dissolved unless the terms were explicitly stated in the terms of the initial parternship agreement.


If you go in to a settlement, and you can prove $13k in embezzlement, how would that not weigh in to the settlement?


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> If you go in to a settlement, and you can prove $13k in embezzlement, how would that not weigh in to the settlement?



Because a criminal doesn’t invalidate the shares that frank owned. 

Sorry this is a really simple concept to me. I don’t really know how to explain it any better. 

If my cfo committee murder and went to jail for 10 years they’d cost me a hell of a lot more then 13k. I’d still have to try and get my shares back.


----------



## Dayn

ElysianGuitars said:


> If you go in to a settlement, and you can prove $13k in embezzlement, how would that not weigh in to the settlement?


Believe it or not, but many people just want to wind their shit up ASAP and not incur outrageous legal fees to spite the other. It's a commercial decision. That's why every settlement I've drafted or have been sent has included a term that it's being made on the basis of commercial convenience without anyone admitting fault.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

diagrammatiks said:


> Absolutely untrue. The reason people settle is that a settlement offers a quicker and cheaper resolution the problem compared to a full blown court case.
> 
> Again. I don’t know how to make this any clearer. The embezzlement and other issues might act as a catalyst but they have no actual bearing on how a partnership is dissolved unless the terms were explicitly stated in the terms of the initial parternship agreement.



Okay, I might just be not making myself clear here, so let's use a personal example of one of my settlements. This stemmed from me and another person getting in a car wreck. I/my insurance settled with the other person/their insurance. In this scenario, I was paid money. As part of the agreement in which I was given that money, I agreed to never take legal action against the other person for anything else. I can't sue them for any damages, and I can't go file criminal complaints against them either. If I did, they would just cite the settlement agreement and probably come after me for violating it.

Now, if I had ever believed this person who I settled with did more damage to me than I got in compensation, why would I agree to that settlement? And why would I accuse them of doing something in a public forum when it was clearly not possible for me to go after them and calling them a criminal embezzler would just make me a libeler?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Dayn said:


> Believe it or not, but many people just want to wind their shit up ASAP and not incur outrageous legal fees to spite the other. It's a commercial decision. That's why every settlement I've drafted or have been sent has included a term that it's being made on the basis of commercial convenience without anyone admitting fault.


If the agreement was written by Tosin's lawyers, wouldn't they fight for that money back when settling? Wouldn't that make things a lot simpler?


----------



## diagrammatiks

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Okay, I might just be not making myself clear here, so let's use a personal example of one of my settlements. This stemmed from me and another person getting in a car wreck. I/my insurance settled with the other person/their insurance. In this scenario, I was paid money. As part of the agreement in which I was given that money, I agreed to never take legal action against the other person for anything else. I can't sue them for any damages, and I can't go file criminal complaints against them either. If I did, they would just cite the settlement agreement and probably come after me for violating it.
> 
> Now, if I had ever believed this person who I settled with did more damage to me than I got in compensation, why would I agree to that settlement? And why would I accuse them of doing something in a public forum when it was clearly not possible for me to go after them and calling them a criminal embezzler would just make me a libeler?



So you have no shares, stakes or partnership equity in this story. So I’m just going to pretend like you meant to write a different more relevant story here.


----------



## Dayn

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Now, if I had ever believed this person who I settled with did more damage to me than I got in compensation, why would I agree to that settlement? And why would I accuse them of doing something in a public forum when it was clearly not possible for me to go after them and calling them a criminal embezzler would just make me a libeler?





ElysianGuitars said:


> If the agreement was written by Tosin's lawyers, wouldn't they fight for that money back when settling? Wouldn't that make things a lot simpler?


Because it's a cost/benefit analysis of fighting it.

I've yet to have a client be willing to pay me thousands of dollars and spend years fighting a matter they could quickly and simply resolve with a few signatures. If you know these people, send them my way - I'll take their money.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Seems like who paid who in the settlement is important then.


----------



## Hollowway

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Okay, I might just be not making myself clear here, so let's use a personal example of one of my settlements. This stemmed from me and another person getting in a car wreck. I/my insurance settled with the other person/their insurance. In this scenario, I was paid money. As part of the agreement in which I was given that money, I agreed to never take legal action against the other person for anything else. I can't sue them for any damages, and I can't go file criminal complaints against them either. If I did, they would just cite the settlement agreement and probably come after me for violating it.
> 
> Now, if I had ever believed this person who I settled with did more damage to me than I got in compensation, why would I agree to that settlement? And why would I accuse them of doing something in a public forum when it was clearly not possible for me to go after them and calling them a criminal embezzler would just make me a libeler?



I think what diagrammatiks is saying is that one can have a settlement in one area, and not in another. In other words, in your car situation, maybe you could settle the repairs to the car, but not the personal injury part. Idk if that is such a thing, but I think that it's possible to have multiple areas of interest that are independent of each other legally. Who knows, maybe you would have to do a settlement to dissolve a partnership before you're able to make a lawsuit against the other partner. I have no idea, but none of us can really do anything other than speculate and argue for distinct hypotheticals. It's fun to debate these things, but there's no way we're going to figure this out without any details and a law degree.


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> Seems like who paid who in the settlement is important then.



Let’s just try this with an example. 

Person a “borrows some company money. 

Person b - hey man you “borrowed a lot of money how about giving it back. 

Person a ok 

Person b actually that was uncool. We need your shares back. 

Person a. No. 

What now brown cow.


----------



## narad

ITT: a bunch of guys making Frank look bad with their whiney AF probing into the circumstances of a settlement. You guys are 100% not doing Frank any favors right now.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

diagrammatiks said:


> Let’s just try this with an example.
> 
> Person a “borrows some company money.
> 
> Person b - hey man you “borrowed a lot of money how about giving it back.
> 
> Person a ok
> 
> Person b actually that was uncool. We need your shares back.
> 
> Person a. No.
> 
> What now brown cow.


"Ok you're out, let's settle this out of court, taking into account you took this money" seems pretty logical, to wrap things up quickly as you guys are saying.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

narad said:


> ITT: a bunch of guys making Frank look bad with their whiney AF probing into the circumstances of a settlement. You guys are 100% not doing Frank any favors right now.


I'm glad you're here to set us straight.

You're still reading, so guess you don't have anything better to do.


----------



## Dayn

Hollowway said:


> I think what diagrammatiks is saying is that one can have a settlement in one area, and not in another. In other words, in your car situation, maybe you could settle the repairs to the car, but not the personal injury part. Idk if that is such a thing, but I think that it's possible to have multiple areas of interest that are independent of each other legally. Who knows, maybe you would have to do a settlement to dissolve a partnership before you're able to make a lawsuit against the other partner. I have no idea, but none of us can really do anything other than speculate and argue for distinct hypotheticals.


Pretty much. A car accident could have a personal injury claim plus another claim for damages due to the damaged car. If something was being towed that was also destroyed, there's another cause of action for damage to that property as well. And that is all separate to any possible criminal offence the bad driver committed.

For a partnership, the important thing is to wind it up, as partners are jointly liable for the debts of the partnership. If there are looming debts, and you want to end the partnership, you don't want that shit hovering over you - rip the bandaid off and get it wound up ASAP.


----------



## axxessdenied

The settlement was to separate the two entities from being in a business relationship from my understanding. The case with the money being embezzled seems to be a separate issue that still might not be resolved?

But, all I can do is speculate.

There's seems to be quite a few people in here making rather idealistic assumptions about how the legal system works. When you deal with lawyers and go through that bullshit you realize it's a game of who's got more money so it's in your best interest to minimize how much time you spend dealing with lawyers because at the end of the day they just win the longer you squabble over stuff. Now, I don't know what the details of the settlement are but from what I can see Tosin does not seem to be worried about it. Whatever backlash he faces from this is all on him and he seems to be ready for whatever blow-back might come from this. Again, just my observation watching this unfold.


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> "Ok you're out, let's settle this out of court, taking into account you took this money" seems pretty logical, to wrap things up quickly as you guys are saying.



So you would pay the difference between the legal fees in order to make it happen fast. Like any reasonable person would. Otherwise you’re are stuck in legal proceedings with someone that has significant equity in your company. 

I just feel like you don’t really understand how brutal stripping equity shares from someone actually is.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Elysian already up front told us about his personal bias and stance on the situation, so why are expecting anything more than what we're getting? You say you have inside information, not considering that he could very well be fabricating or exaggerating his explanation of the situation to you. But you clearly don't know enough since you're questioning basic information that you could confirm by just ringing up your buddy and ask him "Hey, did you get paid off in the settlement or not"? 

Wether or not he paid Falbo off during the settlement has the least amount of importance in the span of this entire shitshow. And like Narad pointed out, you and the shill posters are doing nothing in favor of Frank's defense here, no one is telling you to stop. But it's clearly embarassing, so take a hint and let the involved parties handle their settlements and issues.


----------



## narad

Jonathan20022 said:


> you and the shill posters are doing nothing in favor of Frank's defense here, no one is telling you to stop. But it's clearly embarassing, so take a hint and let the involved parties handle their settlements and issues.



On the other hand, the longer it goes on the lower my desire to visit r/cringe.


----------



## Randy

narad said:


> ITT: a bunch of guys making Frank look bad with their whiney AF probing into the circumstances of a settlement. You guys are 100% not doing Frank any favors right now.



Could do without the condescension and still make the point.


----------



## Randy

Jonathan20022 said:


> Elysian already up front told us about his personal bias and stance on the situation, so why are expecting anything more than what we're getting? You say you have inside information, not considering that he could very well be fabricating or exaggerating his explanation of the situation to you. But you clearly don't know enough since you're questioning basic information that you could confirm by just ringing up your buddy and ask him "Hey, did you get paid off in the settlement or not"?
> 
> Wether or not he paid Falbo off during the settlement has the least amount of importance in the span of this entire shitshow. And like Narad pointed out, you and the shill posters are doing nothing in favor of Frank's defense here, no one is telling you to stop. But it's clearly embarassing, so take a hint and let the involved parties handle their settlements and issues.



Considering Elysian knew Frank before, during and after this fiasco, his perspective is just as valid as any of us that are significantly less involved. You're right, Frank could've been feeding him a line, and I'm not necessarily considering it hard evidence but if Frank was reporting to him regularly as things were going on, it's not unreasonable to believe Elysian was given an impression on what was going on, when it was going on and this isn't 100% interference just because it's his friend.

But yes, to the overall point, the onus is currently on Frank and he's also done none of this supporters any favors by not offering them any substance despite the fact they were willing to be tarred and feathered in here, whether it was out of faith or loyalty.

If he wants to not say anything out of legal concerns fine but there's questions that have been asked that can be answered without necessarily damaging his case, but instead we got one cryptic, overly pious but still accusatory reply and that's it. If he's at all culpable for any of the stuff he's been accused of, however, and hes just leaned on fibbing to his friends to save face, he absolutely owes it to them to come clean so that they can stop coming in here to get crucified for nothing.


----------



## narad

Randy said:


> Could do without the condescension and still make the point.



Fair enough but I think it was hinted at in more polite and passive ways several times already.


----------



## A-Branger

j3ps3 said:


> I'm just saying that as a customer, I would be much more in ease, if the guy with the last say on things would be the one who designed the instrument thoroughly and knows everything about it



actually I would be more at ease knowing the final hand/owner/Tosin in this case, knows how to play. REALLY KNOWS how to play. IF the guitar is great for him, then it would be 102398x times mroe than enough for my sloppy playing. If HE out of everyone cant find anything wrong with teh guitar, a guy whos been playing longer then I am, who had owned pretty muhc every high end guitar out there, whos been involved with one of the biggest names in guitar brands on a signature gear, ect ect. If hes happy with the guitar, then I will too.

I could be a gear nerd, but I bet hes an even bigger guitar nerd than I am.

And that "knows everything about it" statement. I pretty much have a big knowledge how guitars are made, how they work, and what makes a guitar good or not. Only thing I do not have is enough hand-on experience with guitars in order to get used to bad VS good VS great gear. I could recite every single tone wood characteristic out there, I could name you pickups and what they are good for, but I dont have the experience of playing them in order to confirm my knoledge. So I could talk hours with you about gear, yet I wont be able to give you 100% advice. This knoledge/experience can come from both a luthier who has build X amount of gutiars in every single spec variation to know what works, or from an experienced player who has used every single spec combination guitar out there

And yes, like you, I do also want a luthier who knows about the guitar. I want to know the guitar is well build too. But you can go two ways:
-Have a great luthier with vast knowledge and experience to build something
or/and
-Have an amazing player with great experience to oversee the final product to check it plays and performs up to a pro player of his level

In this scenario you had the two, so why the complain?. Who cares what the headstock says. It could say "Bublegum Guitars" and I would still get it. Or you gonna go that if it doesnt say the luthier's name, then its not a "Real guitar".... ok so how about Ibanez, or ESP (since probably EII "its not real ESP" ) 


A formula1 mechanic/engineer doesnt needs to drive to know how good a car needs to be build, but he needs to know how to take the advice of the driver to improve his car. Same way a F1 driver might know the basic of how the car works/its made so he can communicate with his mechanics, but he for dam sure would know what is a good car and whats a great one


----------



## j3ps3

A-Branger said:


> actually I would be more at ease knowing the final hand/owner/Tosin in this case, knows how to play. REALLY KNOWS how to play. IF the guitar is great for him, then it would be 102398x times mroe than enough for my sloppy playing. If HE out of everyone cant find anything wrong with teh guitar, a guy whos been playing longer then I am, who had owned pretty muhc every high end guitar out there, whos been involved with one of the biggest names in guitar brands on a signature gear, ect ect. If hes happy with the guitar, then I will too.
> 
> I could be a gear nerd, but I bet hes an even bigger guitar nerd than I am.
> 
> And that "knows everything about it" statement. I pretty much have a big knowledge how guitars are made, how they work, and what makes a guitar good or not. Only thing I do not have is enough hand-on experience with guitars in order to get used to bad VS good VS great gear. I could recite every single tone wood characteristic out there, I could name you pickups and what they are good for, but I dont have the experience of playing them in order to confirm my knoledge.



You can say anything, but it doesn't change how I feel about this. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind here. It's just how _I_ feel. You can know your way around the instrument, but like I've said before, even the best of the best can be fooled by just doing a good setup and a good sales pitch. And with prices like that, I want a guitar for me. Not guitar made for Tosin.



A-Branger said:


> So I could talk hours with you about gear, yet I wont be able to give you 100% advice. This knoledge/experience can come from both a luthier who has build X amount of gutiars in every single spec variation to know what works, or from an experienced player who has used every single spec combination guitar out there



It's not that simple. Wood and tones aren't absolute things. I could give you some research information regarding this, but I doubt it would help, as it's in Finnish. There are certain characteristics yes, but it's really not that simple. And this is something what most PLAYERS just don't get and that's what makes me hesitant about a situation like this. You can try it out on your own by playing different instruments blindfolded. Suddenly everything will get a lot harder to recognize. Just purely how the guitar looks will affect how you think of it. There's just so much mumbo-jumbo around guitars. I'm not at all saying these are bad instruments. Just that it makes _me_ hesitant and that I don't really like the trend going on.



A-Branger said:


> And yes, like you, I do also want a luthier who knows about the guitar. I want to know the guitar is well build too. But you can go two ways:
> -Have a great luthier with vast knowledge and experience to build something
> or/and
> -Have an amazing player with great experience to oversee the final product to check it plays and performs up to a pro player of his level
> 
> In this scenario you had the two, so why the complain?. Who cares what the headstock says. It could say "Bublegum Guitars" and I would still get it. Or you gonna go that if it doesnt say the luthier's name, then its not a "Real guitar".... ok so how about Ibanez, or ESP (since probably EII "its not real ESP" )
> 
> A formula1 mechanic/engineer doesnt needs to drive to know how good a car needs to be build, but he needs to know how to take the advice of the driver to improve his car. Same way a F1 driver might know the basic of how the car works/its made so he can communicate with his mechanics, but he for dam sure would know what is a good car and whats a great one



Again, opinion. Just doesn't float my boat. Some people like avocado, I don't. Nothing wrong about this whole thing, just not for me. I don't hold that much value on Tosin being a part of this. A good luthier, _to_me_, is more important (good luthier, in a hypothetical situation where I'd be placing an order, knows he's way around the instrument, so Tosin doesn't really add any value to this for me) and I was just wondering how people are so excited about this, because to me, it's not exciting. I can totally understand the opposite ground, but was wondering if I'm only one feeling this way. Not trying to take anything away from anybody, whatever floats your boat, dude.  Not looking to buy something that Tosin likes. I want an instrument made for me.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

I’m ashamed to say that I’ve read the whole of this thread!

In the next issue of Marvel’s “What If?”... What if Tosin had stayed with Ibanez?


----------



## narad

j3ps3 said:


> You can know your way around the instrument, but like I've said before, even the best of the best can be fooled by just doing a good setup and a good sales pitch.



Frankly, if Tosin can be fooled by a good setup, then the hell if the rest of us have any chance at telling a great guitar apart from a cinder block.

I'm just really confused with your point. I mean, I understand your point, but you seem to know these finish research things, so if someone came to you and asked you to build a better ERG guitar than this thing Tosin's come up with over a few years, what would you do differently? And how does the ~"speed sound travels through the board" impact this process? Like player-driven vs. builder-driven, concretely, how is the guitar you make going to be better than the one Abasi guitars creates taking Tosin's feedback to Grover's shop?

Not sure this is the best place to hash it out -- maybe spin it out into a different thread as it's not relevant to this particular discussion -- but you should probably spend some time thinking about it because as a potential luthier, this is like fairly representative of your customer base. And as someone who still hangs out on TGP a fair bit and has pursued various "mojo"-based hocus pocus, so someone very into particular specs that fall on the builder side (materials and joins and finishes, whatnot), I really don't follow this logic.


----------



## diagrammatiks

narad said:


> Frankly, if Tosin can be fooled by a good setup, then the hell if the rest of us have any chance at telling a great guitar apart from a cinder block.
> 
> I'm just really confused with your point. I mean, I understand your point, but you seem to know these finish research things, so if someone came to you and asked you to build a better ERG guitar than this thing Tosin's come up with over a few years, what would you do differently? And how does the ~"speed sound travels through the board" impact this process? Like player-driven vs. builder-driven, concretely, how is the guitar you make going to be better than the one Abasi guitars creates taking Tosin's feedback to Grover's shop?
> 
> Not sure this is the best place to hash it out -- maybe spin it out into a different thread as it's not relevant to this particular discussion -- but you should probably spend some time thinking about it because as a potential luthier, this is like fairly representative of your customer base. And as someone who still hangs out on TGP a fair bit and has pursued various "mojo"-based hocus pocus, so someone very into particular specs that fall on the builder side (materials and joins and finishes, whatnot), I really don't follow this logic.



Plus that’s all the parts the actual builder is supposed to take care off. So I really don’t understand. 

It’s not like there’s a dude called mr Ibanez sitting in Japan building all the guitars.


----------



## narad

diagrammatiks said:


> Plus that’s all the parts the actual builder is supposed to take care off. So I really don’t understand.
> 
> It’s not like there’s a dude called mr Ibanez sitting in Japan building all the guitars.



Yea, and overlooking the fact that very, very few decent builders are exceptional ERG players. If I had to guess, running "builder -> Tosin" feedback loop 5-10 times is going to result in a far better guitar than a builder trying to guess what works as an ERG instrument + reading journal papers on wood properties for several months.


----------



## j3ps3

narad said:


> Frankly, if Tosin can be fooled by a good setup, then the hell if the rest of us have any chance at telling a great guitar apart from a cinder block.
> 
> I'm just really confused with your point. I mean, I understand your point, but you seem to know these finish research things, so if someone came to you and asked you to build a better ERG guitar than this thing Tosin's come up with over a few years, what would you do differently? And how does the ~"speed sound travels through the board" impact this process? Like player-driven vs. builder-driven, concretely, how is the guitar you make going to be better than the one Abasi guitars creates taking Tosin's feedback to Grover's shop?



I would make it for you and you only. I would ask you all the questions I need to have an answer for to get there. My job is to listen to you and understand what you're looking to get and then talk the specs out with you. Not replicating something somebody else likes. If you want to get exact same guitar Tosin uses, nothing wrong with that. Just wouldn't be the way I would go.


----------



## diagrammatiks

j3ps3 said:


> I would make it for you and you only. I would ask you all the questions I need to have an answer for to get there. My job is to listen you and understand what you're looking to get and then talk the specs out with you. Not replicating something somebody else likes. If you want to get exact same guitar Tosin uses, nothing wrong with that. Just wouldn't be the way I would go.



See now that’s a nice way to say things. 

Also irrelevant completely to this thread. 

Can we stop beating this horse now.


----------



## j3ps3

diagrammatiks said:


> See now that’s a nice way to say things.
> 
> Also irrelevant completely to this thread.
> 
> Can we stop beating this horse now.



Sorry, if you've felt like I've been hostile about this. Not at all my intention. Not a native so I might miss something when just reading/writing.

Man, I feel like I'm going to get crucified just for voicing my opinion.


----------



## diagrammatiks

j3ps3 said:


> Sorry, if you've felt like I've been hostile about this. Not at all my intention. Not a native so I might miss something when just reading/writing.
> 
> Man, I feel like I'm going to get crucified just for voicing my opinion.



No people are confused because you aren’t making any sense. The entire existence of sognature guitars is premised in buying someone else’s idea. 

This particular guitar company has never purported to be a true custom shop. 

A brand name is not the builder. Sometimes they might be named after the same guy.


----------



## narad

j3ps3 said:


> I would make it for you and you only. I would ask you all the questions I need to have an answer for to get there. My job is to listen to you and understand what you're looking to get and then talk the specs out with you. Not replicating something somebody else likes. If you want to get exact same guitar Tosin uses, nothing wrong with that. Just wouldn't be the way I would go.



Fair enough. I'm sure some people would prefer the "mixologist" approach to guitar building. 

But by the same token, as someone that's placed like 15 custom guitar orders, I F everything up. It doesn't matter how much I chat with the luthier beforehand, or how good the luthier it is. And they've all be objectively great guitars (if you're asking questions, then we're dealing purely in the subjective anyway). But each one is a totally amazing guitar in one respect and some mistake/F-up/expensive-lesson-learned in another. Others are discoveries of things I like that I wouldn't have known, that I couldn't have commented on if you asked me pre-build.

My own 2-cents is that if I'm venturing into my first ERG 8-string FF, just going with whatever Tosin does is probably going to be a great start, and better than trying to describe what I want to a luthier. Because that was like a blank slate when I did it. 

But yea, don't want to derail the thread (from more entertaining things) further.


----------



## j3ps3

diagrammatiks said:


> No people are confused because you aren’t making any sense. The entire existence of sognature guitars is premised in buying someone else’s idea.
> 
> This particular guitar company has never purported to be a true custom shop.
> 
> A brand name is not the builder. Sometimes they might be named after the same guy.



Sigh. I've never said so. I said, I'd like to go direct with the builder in a price range like this, because it's possible.


----------



## diagrammatiks

j3ps3 said:


> Sigh. I've never said so. I said, I'd like to go direct with the builder in a price range like this, because it's possible.



That’s fine. But also your opinion. Also off topic. Also there’s at least 2 if not more private stock mark Holcomb sigs out there at 15k. Go fight those guys.


----------



## RiksRiks

diagrammatiks said:


> It’s not like there’s a dude called mr Ibanez sitting in Japan building all the guitars.



"Oh hai Mr. Ibanuzzzz can I have ERG puhleeez!"


----------



## j3ps3

diagrammatiks said:


> That’s fine. But also your opinion. Also off topic. Also there’s at least 2 if not more private stock mark Holcomb sigs out there at 15k. Go fight those guys.



Never stated anything else, so what's your problem? Not looking for a fight, just asking if I'm alone with the opinion, and for that I get attacked for.


----------



## diagrammatiks

j3ps3 said:


> Never stated anything else, so what's your problem? Not looking for a fight, just asking if I'm alone with the opinion, and for that I get attacked for.



Honestly this is a thread about Tosin sig guitar. So yes you will most likely you will be alone in your opinion. 

But that’s the beauty of the free market. Choices are good and people can choose where to spend their money. 

It’s not your money so whether you think it makes sense for someone to spend it like that is irevalent. The only thing that really matters is trying to attract customers that want your service.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

narad said:


> My own 2-cents is that if I'm venturing into my first ERG 8-string FF, just going with whatever Tosin does is probably going to be a great start, and better than trying to describe what I want to a luthier. Because that was like a blank slate when I did .



At the risk of further derailing, I have to say that I think this is the "correct" answer. Who better to determine (not necesarily design) what a certain type of guitar "should" be like than the biggest proponent of that type of guitar?


----------



## j3ps3

Ok, so basically I have the wrong opinion to post in this thread. I'll do you a favor and step back then. Bye


----------



## diagrammatiks

j3ps3 said:


> Ok, so basically I have the wrong opinion to post in this thread. I'll do you a favor and step back then. Bye



Honestly how did you think a thread about people interested in a guys sig guitar was going to go.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

j3ps3 said:


> Ok, so basically I have the wrong opinion to post in this thread. I'll do you a favor and step back then. Bye



No, you have the opposite opinion to the vast majority of other guys posting in this thread. It's not "wrong" it's just different and outnumbered.


----------



## A-Branger

j3ps3 said:


> I would make it for you and you only. I would ask you all the questions I need to have an answer for to get there. My job is to listen to you and understand what you're looking to get and then talk the specs out with you. Not replicating something somebody else likes. If you want to get exact same guitar Tosin uses, nothing wrong with that. Just wouldn't be the way I would go.



I fully get your point, you want a more one-on-one approach. You want a fully trully 100% custom made 100% to the buyer. And thats fine. Not many people know what they actually want appart from colors.

But this Abasi brand is not set to be a fully custom like you want it. Its more of a High end brand that offers options. Just like Kiesel does. "Custom" in the sense that you get to pick some specs, but at the end of the day the guitar still gets "mass produced" under certain restrains. And for a lot of people that "custom shop" feel its more than enough. Like Narad says, if it works for Tosin, then thats a good start for me that I dnt really know what I want.

At the end of the day the guitar industry its a fashion industry. This is the newest "look" out there, you want it? you get it, cool thing is you can actually choose the woods and colors


----------



## prlgmnr

yargnad said:


> Maybe I'm just too old and remember back when the internet was a useful source of information....


That's a myth.

Before google, there was good information online, but it was impossible to find.

After google, you can find anything but it's all a load of bollocks.


----------



## Demiurge

yargnad said:


> Wow 126 pages of this crap!?! I imagine if you all spent as much time practicing as you've done yapping on this you could all have your own signature models by now.



Like any amount of practice would make me good. Anyway, this thread is a good lesson that being really good at guitar doesn't make this particular venture any easier.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Demiurge said:


> Like any amount of practice would make me good. Anyway, this thread is a good lesson that being really good at guitar doesn't make this particular venture any easier.



The take away is also that being really good at _building_ guitars doesn't make this stuff much easier.


----------



## cip 123

yargnad said:


> Wow 126 pages of this crap!?! I imagine if you all spent as much time practicing as you've done yapping on this you could all have your own signature models by now.
> 
> I just wanted to know what happened with Tosin and Frank, but honestly the hundred plus pages of fanboism and pettiness have deterred me from even wanting to sift through the garbage to find the meat. Why does every forum on the internet look like this now?
> 
> Let me go crawl back under the rock which I've been hiding. Maybe I'm just too old and remember back when the internet was a useful source of information....


Page 104.


----------



## narad

yargnad said:


> Thanks man. This is exactly what I was looking for and it took 5 more posts after mine for something useful to be posted here. Thanks again. I going to name my next kid after you. Cip123 has a nice ring to it....



There you have it. Faith in the internet restored and it didn't involve a rollback to ARPANET. 

However, forums exists for everyone. Do you really think it's necessary to troll up some disparaging remarks because *4* years of development has created 127 pages of discussion, and the information you want isn't served up for you, there, exactly where you want it on your first click? @cip 123 is a nicer person than me, but like, you can't blame forums for not doing your own legwork for you.

But still, legit, compare your first post with, "Hi guys! New here. This thread is insane(ly long)! Can anyone point me to where the actual Tosin / Frank announcement posts are?"


----------



## Seabeast2000

prlgmnr said:


> That's a myth.
> 
> Before google, there was good information online, but it was impossible to find.
> 
> After google, you can find anything but it's all a load of bollocks.



Actually, I think it all came on a single CD and was called Encarta. 



yargnad said:


> Obviously you're too young to remember that the internet was created by and for academics, and I suppose I'm just an old beard (as in preinternet programmer) but I always found the relevant info I needed in forumls like this by simply asking and it didnt provoke and endless barrage of unqualified opinions. There were many good search engines before google. They just didnt index trash, it was a more targeted approach to try to grab all the useful stuff from reputable sources.



Depending on how much coal you shovel into your steam car, this particular forum is pretty darn good. I was not around sending VAX-based missives to my R&D buddies on DARPANET but was around when the internet became a pop cult mass hit. Anyway, this place is net gain if you're into the just about most of the myriad topics discussed. I don't participate in any other. You'll find info, help, lots of humor and the occasional hard analysis on subjects like this thread that carries on a bit.


----------



## skmanga

all this Elysian hype, and I cant even find a single Elysian electric guitar on the internet....


----------



## Demiurge

narad said:


> But still, legit, compare your first post with, "Hi guys! New here. This thread is insane(ly long)! Can anyone point me to where the actual Tosin / Frank announcement posts are?"



Well I for one think that it's only appropriate for a thread where first-post randos parachuted in to stir shit up to receive proper rebuke from a first-post rando.


----------



## iamaom

yargnad said:


> didnt provoke and endless barrage of unqualified opinions.


I find it hard to believe that usenet groups and IRC chats were any different than those today.


----------



## diagrammatiks

iamaom said:


> I find it hard to believe that usenet groups and IRC chats were any different than those today.



They weren’t. But I’ve o my been online since around 93. Who knows what magical world existed before then. 

Forums are for entertainment now anyway. If you can’t find something through google. You are bad.


----------



## Demiurge

I probably spent more time waiting for the original Doom shareware to download from somebody's dial-in BBS than anyone has spent on this thread. Odd that a supposed internet OG balks at the amount of time spent on certain things online.


----------



## jwade

This whole thread has devolved into the kind of bitchy Facebook arguments you see among teenagers. A lot of you have have come across quite badly, and these constant attempts to re-state the same tired BS are not helping the situation nor the thread.


----------



## gunch

Half of us are more interested in the WMI thing Jeff brought up at this point


----------



## diagrammatiks

silverabyss said:


> Half of us are more interested in the WMI thing Jeff brought up at this point



Not much to say about it although Jeff might have some more information about why. Originally, prs was going to leave the bulk of the guitars at wmi and move some production to Cort Indonesia. Like a tremonti standard and the cu standards. Then at some point they moved almost every guitar over there for production.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm guessing that explains why ESP recently move production of the 1000 series to Indo as well? Seems like WMI guitars were getting much more expensive, too. Schecter's charging $1700 for the KM7-MKIII.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

skmanga said:


> all this Elysian hype, and I cant even find a single Elysian electric guitar on the internet....


I stopped building full time in 2015, I make pickups now. There are two of my guitars right on the front page of my website though, so not sure how much looking you actually did


----------



## BuckarooBanzai

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm guessing that explains why ESP recently move production of the 1000 series to Indo as well? Seems like WMI guitars were getting much more expensive, too. Schecter's charging $1700 for the KM7-MKIII.



0_0 Well, on the bright side I suppose that cures me of any GAS I had for an MH-1000 to complement my EC.


----------



## StevenC

diagrammatiks said:


> It’s not like there’s a dude called mr Ibanez sitting in Japan building all the guitars.


John Petrucci says otherwise.


----------



## Ziricote

Note for future new builders. Start with run of limited 10 pieces not 50+ or even better make 10 first with your own money and sell them first, then use capital to get another batch of 20 going and can take deposits this time. I dont like these new wave of business rely on crowdfunding/deposits type of business plan when in the beggining stages. It takes the money to make the money and if you dont have the money to start by yourself initial then you have to rely on crowdfund or deposits from customers. Or get a business loan from legit source. And dont tell me Im wrong because literally this happened here where new business starts with other peoples money and has issues, regardless of whos fault which appear to be Franks


----------



## skmanga

ElysianGuitars said:


> I stopped building full time in 2015, I make pickups now. There are two of my guitars right on the front page of my website though, so not sure how much looking you actually did


Was hoping to find something for sale, second hand even.


----------



## Jeff

skmanga said:


> all this Elysian hype, and I cant even find a single Elysian electric guitar on the internet....



You’re not very good at the internet. 



diagrammatiks said:


> Not much to say about it although Jeff might have some more information about why. Originally, prs was going to leave the bulk of the guitars at wmi and move some production to Cort Indonesia. Like a tremonti standard and the cu standards. Then at some point they moved almost every guitar over there for production.



There’s not much to say. PRS rep told me when asked why we were getting PRS SE CU24’s made in Indonesia that WMI was becoming inconsistent and they were having to send too many back. Cort has been more consistent and better quality lately than the more recent WMI’s. That’s all I know. 

We’ve got several of each here, and honestly you have to flip the headstock around to see where it’s made. Whether you like SE’s in the first place is up to you.


----------



## oversteve

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm guessing that explains why ESP recently move production of the 1000 series to Indo as well? Seems like WMI guitars were getting much more expensive, too. Schecter's charging $1700 for the KM7-MKIII.


There are some 1000 made in Indo with 2017 serial at the same time there are 1000 with 2018 serials built in Korea, even some 400 from 18 if my memory doesn't fail me, so my guess it is more of a supply/demand issue and PRS rep telling that in order not to trigger "Korea better then Indo" issue


----------



## frank falbo

Both shops make an unheard of number of guitars and brands. As I understand it, Cort Indonesia are brands like Ibanez Premium and lower, G&L Tribute, all good stuff. World is Schecter, LTD, also good stuff. 

At this point, I would consider the quality between the two interchangeable. Of course both factories have several sub-layers of quality and pricing points. 

I worked with the Cort Korea factory way back in the 90s, coincidentally around when they first opened the Indonesian plant. At that time, of course Korean meant higher quality than Indonesia. 

Today it’s not the case. If I were advising a friend which of two comparable guitars to buy and one was Cort and the other WMI, I would say they are absolutely interchangeable, and no need to belabor that point.


----------



## cip 123

I feel like it depends entirely on the Brand and the actual factory. Lots of people hear Indo and think it's lower end, but it could be a very good Factory. 

My MTD bass is made in China and it's a very well put together guitar. Where as China is known mainly for cheaper guitars and copies.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

skmanga said:


> all this Elysian hype, and I cant even find a single Elysian electric guitar on the internet....



Totally removed from the thread topic, but Elysian makes some unreal pickups. Whatever your feelings are regarding the instruments, don't skip on checking out the pickups.


----------



## mnemonic

jwade said:


> This whole thread has devolved into the kind of bitchy Facebook arguments you see among teenagers. A lot of you have have come across quite badly, and these constant attempts to re-state the same tired BS are not helping the situation nor the thread.



I think it’s been pretty civil actually. If you want to see a shitshow you need to look though the BRJ and Sherman threads back when shit started hitting the fan. 

Not sure if some people were more invested in those brands, or maybe the average age of the forum membership was lower back then, but this thread has been way more tame. Way less name calling, personal attacks, or threats.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mnemonic said:


> I think it’s been pretty civil actually. If you want to see a shitshow you need to look though the BRJ and Sherman threads back when shit started hitting the fan.
> 
> Not sure if some people were more invested in those brands, or maybe the average age of the forum membership was lower back then, but this thread has been way more tame. Way less name calling, personal attacks, or threats.



Those were completely different situations. 

With BRJ, you had dozens of folks out of thousands of dollars. To my knowledge, all the customers in this case have been refunded.


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> Those were completely different situations.
> 
> With BRJ, you had dozens of folks out of thousands of dollars. To my knowledge, all the customers in this case have been refunded.



Yeah, which is really cool. It's dejecting seeing so many luthiers go under and take customer's payments with them. Irrespective of how anyone feels about the parties involved, refunding customer deposits is a very smart business decision.


----------



## arsonist

simonXsludge said:


> Maybe I missed it, but is no one asking why Tosin did not get involved with QC when the product had his name on the headstock and was made somewhat local to him?
> 
> Everyone's quick to pick sides, but neither of them look very graceful to me, at least based on the info I've gathered.



Highly underrated post.
While it's clear that Frank f*cked up in many aspects, Tosin trying to distance himself from guitars already in the market that quite literally have HIS name written on it is a little disingenuous to me. 
His decisions as a business owner have been extremely poor, but hey, I totally get it. He's been on the receiving end of the biggest, most popular and most boundary-pushing guitar tech companies for years. Ibanez, EMG, Dimarzio, Seymour Duncan, Fishman, .strandberg*, Leqtique, Pro Tone, and only god knows how many accessories (strings, picks, etc.) and amplification companies have been hounding him for YEARS just so they can make some product that profits off of his name being slapped on it. He's been treated very well by these companies and I assume had zero visibility on their business model other than what he physically saw at the plants and offices, and the financial restrictions he worked with on his signature products.
So he starts a business with a reputable name, designs a product and markets the sh*t out of it. He puts in charge of production a relatively well-known name in the guitar industry, and after getting in a bunch of orders, basically throws a ton of money at him.
What then? Time passes over which seemingly Tosin heeds zero attention to what is happening in his business, and after an unspecified amount of time asks the head of production "where is my product?", to which said head of production says "sorry, I ran over costs multiple times and simply can't account for a pretty large amount of cash either". 
In the simplest of terms, a business *cannot be run this way*. You cannot allocate a titanic amount of cash (for a business of this size) to a single person in the company and simply sit back to see it materialize into the desired product. There have to be controls, expenditures have to be monitored _at all times_, and not post facto, when the money has vanished and the products are lackluster. Tosin mentions that this was a red flag, but that's lunacy; this isn't a red flag, it's a complete, immediate stop in orders, production, *everything*. It is a fundamental and primary aim of a business owner not to allow their business to arrive to such a point, muchless immediately in the beginning. 
To avoid any misunderstandings: I'm not blaming this situation on Tosin, but there is plenty of error on his end (albeit not malicious, simply out of ignorance). To me it seems like he's been used to throwing money at things to get results, which quite simply does not work in a business that requires its owner's constant, consistent attention. This is doubly true for a business lifting off the ground.
I'm assuming Frank will be taken to court and whatever conflicts (monies owed, design copyright, etc.) will be resolved. But I think this serves as a very, very good lesson in business and shows that even if your brand is reputable, even if your product is in high demand, all aspects of the business need to be very closely watched in order to avoid such situations unfolding.


----------



## cardinal

cip 123 said:


> I feel like it depends entirely on the Brand and the actual factory. Lots of people hear Indo and think it's lower end, but it could be a very good Factory.
> 
> My MTD bass is made in China and it's a very well put together guitar. Where as China is known mainly for cheaper guitars and copies.



The made in China Warwick basses are awesome. Not exactly inexpensive though.


----------



## ixlramp

arsonist said:


> Tosin trying to distance himself from guitars


Doesn't seem so.


arsonist said:


> and after getting in a bunch of orders, basically throws a ton of money at him.


That's how business works.


arsonist said:


> Time passes over which seemingly Tosin heeds zero attention to what is happening in his business





arsonist said:


> and simply sit back to see it materialize into the desired product.


Those are quite ridiculous accusations, how would you know?


----------



## GunpointMetal

I mean, yeah, there was probably some inattentiveness from an outside supervision standpoint, but if you a guitar player that doesn't build guitars, and someone builds you a guitar/prototype that meets all your quality requirements, and the builder says they can accommodate x number of equal-quality builds in x amount of time, why would you think you NEED to micromanage that? I can see WANTING to micromanage it, but if you're touring, working on other income streams, etc, you'ld take a person on their word if you deemed them trustworthy. The problem in these situations is always someone who is a great talker and can drag out allowing their mouth to write checks their ass can't cash until they get audited in some fashion. I'm sure when they started Tosin felt like he had no reason NOT to trust what was being told to him, for various reasons. Unfortunately in business its better to be kind of a pain in the ass and keep everyone on track and accountable then to treat everyone like your friend.


----------



## Randy

ITT: Increasingly wild speculation with decreasingly valid information.


----------



## SurfingAlpaca

I don't mean to add fuel to the fire, but based on the evidence that we have at the moment, I'm going to apply Hanlon's razor to the situation. I don't think, according to the allegations, Frank took the money with intent to embezzle rather he's just terrible at estimating costs/resource allocation combined with bad management as arsonist suggested. That said, the alleged inability to provide receipts or other accounting related things, combined with shoddily delivered products is inexcusable no matter who is responsible. I hope both parties can take this to court and come to an agreement quickly and peacefully so that they can continue to go on with their dealings. If anything, as arsonist mentioned, this should be a huge wake up call for both parties with regards to running a business


----------



## Seabeast2000

Signed: The Law Firm of Seven, String and Org.


----------



## SurfingAlpaca

Speaking of The Law Firm of Seven, String, and Org., even though this is off topic, can someone point me in the direction of what is wrong with Kiesel? I was planning to buy a headless a few months ago and someone here told me not to go with Kiesel but I never found out why because I didn't really consider buying from them in the first place. If you could point me in the direction of this VIK and other drama threads, I'd greatly appreciate it


----------



## Djentlyman

SurfingAlpaca said:


> Speaking of The Law Firm of Seven, String, and Org., even though this is off topic, can someone point me in the direction of what is wrong with Kiesel? I was planning to buy a headless a few months ago and someone here told me not to go with Kiesel but I never found out why because I didn't really consider buying from them in the first place. If you could point me in the direction of this VIK and other drama threads, I'd greatly appreciate it



Here you go: http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/kiesel-never-again.320132/


----------



## LeviathanKiller

SurfingAlpaca said:


> Speaking of The Law Firm of Seven, String, and Org., even though this is off topic, can someone point me in the direction of what is wrong with Kiesel? I was planning to buy a headless a few months ago and someone here told me not to go with Kiesel but I never found out why because I didn't really consider buying from them in the first place. If you could point me in the direction of this VIK and other drama threads, I'd greatly appreciate it



I think a good short summary is

Jeff Kiesel has bad customer service/relations and some sketchy practices at times (like the stolen-showroom-please-buy-guitars-now incident).
The brand has several non-returnable options that sometimes get you stuck with a guitar should something be wrong (like the rawtone finish, etc).

They have fixed plenty of people's guitars though who did have issues,
not a huge percentage of people even have issues,
and you don't have to deal with Jeff himself usually I don't think if you're just doing a normal order.

I spec'd mine out using the builder but I need to make the sure the headstock matched the body and it didn't explicitly state it so I called them and Chris answered and got me invoiced.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, which is really cool. It's dejecting seeing so many luthiers go under and take customer's payments with them. Irrespective of how anyone feels about the parties involved, refunding customer deposits is a very smart business decision.



Yes, I want to specifically state that, even though I wasn't happy with the communication, I was very happy with the refund from my Abasi order. I really appreciate Tosin stepping up to the plate to make sure none of the customers were financially harmed.


----------



## Randy

SurfingAlpaca said:


> Hanlon's razor



Jeez, everybody's got a razor these days.


----------



## dasistnicht

Randy said:


> Jeez, everybody's got a razor these days.



So, wait- are you saying 'bitches get stitches'? 'Cause I feel like at this point that's sort of the unofficial motto of this thread


----------



## Kleshas

frank falbo said:


> Both shops make an unheard of number of guitars and brands. As I understand it, Cort Indonesia are brands like Ibanez Premium and lower, G&L Tribute, all good stuff. World is Schecter, LTD, also good stuff.
> 
> At this point, I would consider the quality between the two interchangeable. Of course both factories have several sub-layers of quality and pricing points.
> 
> I worked with the Cort Korea factory way back in the 90s, coincidentally around when they first opened the Indonesian plant. At that time, of course Korean meant higher quality than Indonesia.
> 
> Today it’s not the case. If I were advising a friend which of two comparable guitars to buy and one was Cort and the other WMI, I would say they are absolutely interchangeable, and no need to belabor that point.




Sooooooo...... am I the only one who noticed the total radio silence from Frank's personal account throughout a good portion of this thread talking about him only for him to pop in randomly just to talk about how equal Cort and WMI are in quality which is totally off topic from the discussion at hand?


----------



## Randy

Not a justification but based on the arguments put forward by his supporters, my assumption is that Frank is content to let this playout legally, as opposed to trying to fight that battle infront of the jury of SSO. 

In that scenario, Frank likely believes he'll be vindicated and as such, free to discuss things OTHER than Abasi guitars in the meantime.

I say none of that as a justification but thats at least what I can extract of the psychology in this case.


----------



## frank falbo

Kleshas said:


> Sooooooo.....


That was to assist in putting that off-topic side discussion to rest.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> Eating McDonald’s with my 4k prs in my lap. I feel personally attacked
> 
> But goddamn this thread is like ground zero for new poster shitbombs. I don’t think the site has had this many registrations in years.
> 
> Mods are we sure these accounts aren’t ip’d from the vicinity of california



This thread was in some Gear Gods [] article, which is bringing in the riffraff.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Keep out SSO POSERS! This is OUR drama thread!


----------



## arsonist

ixlramp said:


> Doesn't seem so.



Guess I may have been wrong there, I was under the impression that Abasi was distancing himself from the guitars since they were pretty sub-par: 

"Also, good luck trying to make excuses for the insanely bad build issues we had to pay to have corrected."

But you could argue that they owned up to it since they had them corrected by a third party before putting them on the market. So yeah.



ixlramp said:


> That's how business works.



lol no, not at ALL. You are definitely welcome to hand over lump sums of money to your single head of production, but that's of course if you want to risk this same exact situation.



ixlramp said:


> Those are quite ridiculous accusations, how would you know?



Because that is literally what Tosin said, and I quote:
"By early March, we paid Frank the full deposit amount necessary to complete 51 guitars by April 15th.
...
After missing the first deadline..."

It's there in black and white: Frank was handed a nice lump sum and was only held to account AFTER missing his deadline. My opinion on the matter emphasizes that that is no way to run a business, especially not one literally just starting out. We're talking about the FIRST batch here... any businessowner worth a dime is going to oversee the production of at least the first few products they release to ensure that they're making a good impression. Sure, by the time they'd be making guitars in the hundreds it would probably be a pretty futile (and most likely useless) attempt to try and oversee the production so closely. But if you want a quick lesson in how not to f*ck up your business the very second it launches: it's makes all the sense in the world to have the business owner (and product namesake!) oversee the creation of the very first products very closely.


----------



## pondman

MaxOfMetal said:


> This thread was in some Gear Gods [] article, which is bringing in the riffraff.



Aye, there is a direct link to page 104 of this thread from that article. More angry trolls expected


----------



## MaxOfMetal

pondman said:


> Aye, there is a direct link to page 104 of this thread from that article. More angry trolls expected



To be fair, Elysian is in thier comment section. 

So it's give and take.


----------



## animalsasleader

Contract manufacturering 101...

ABASI concepts purchased manufactured goods from Falbo Designs LLC, we were not tasked with running his shop. He was our OEM. This is similar to how Hoshino doesn’t own their own factory, they purchase their manufactured goods from various factories like Fujigen, or PT Cort. Autonomous operations. Hoshino is ultimately at the mercy of their manufacturer. It is the competency and professionalism of Fujigen or PT Cort that allows this arrangement to be sustainable ( and they still get things wrong, occasionally )

As far as me “overseeing production” The CEO of Hoshino would potentially not be so helpful on the shop floor of the Fujigen factory. Does he know if they’re wasting time in the wet sanding stage? What about if the humidity in the room is starting to produce cupping in the bodies? Maybe the hydraulic press is set too high and will eventually squeeze the glue out of the seams of the blanks they’re book matching? Would he be able to tell that if the guitars weren’t pore filled by the 10th that there’s no way they’ll be out of paint by the 23rd? You’re criticism of me implies that I could some how understand the complexities of a first production run of 50 guitars in a shop built, staffed, and run by someone else ( while being told by the owner of that shop, that everything is fine) Missing deadlines is a reality in manufacturing not exclusive to Falbo Designs, or any other shop for that matter. Not paying the rent on that shop to the point that the police are involved, refusing to manifest accounting, or having a suspended business license are another matter all together. 

Concerning my due diligence on Frank, he told me he was Vice President of Product Development at Seymour Duncan from 2007 to 2012 ( p-rails, palladium, vice grip etc. ) and that he spent many years working in finance. He also was consulting with many other companies like ESP and Fishman at the time. He even mentioned being tasked with establishing production in South East Asia for other companies. I also liked him as a person and considered him my friend. He also had a knack for public speaking. This is actually why I gave him the CBDO role in ABASI. He was to earn money on the ABASI side, and as part owner, to make sure the company was on track (duty of loyalty)

On the Falbo Designs LLC side of things, he submitted a spread sheet that outlined how his shop could scale to operate at 100 guitars/month, which is why we agreed to half that capacity. Once again, we deferred to Frank as our contract manufacturer and CBDO to advise us on what was realistic.

After that first missed deadline, it became apparent his process was a mess and his shop had no actual organization. I visited other factories and even consulted with people like John Suhr, Jean Lariveé, Ed Yoon and Ola Strandberg to try to understand how they did things. We stepped in and created a new spreadsheet, identifying concurrent processes, timing out individual steps, determining which steps required what expertise and assigned laborers accordingly. We required that Frank update them daily with met goals or targets missed. We purchased supplementary equipment to accelerate productivity. Frank wanted a thickness sander? We bought him one. Frank’s CNC was throwing Z axis faults and he couldn’t fix it? We found a shop that would cut the bodies while he’s addressing that (we have all the receipts, btw) All of this proved futile in the end. Luckily I don’t need to walk into Grover Jackson shop and attempt to refine his processes.

Sadly, I believe Frank is capable of making a good guitar. My prototype attests to this. But It’s one thing to make a good guitar. It’s another thing to make 50, by a deadline, within budget. And an entirely different thing to have money go unaccounted for. Hopefully this helps to clarify things.


----------



## arsonist

animalsasleader said:


> Contract manufacturering 101...



Your points on Frank's roles & responsibilities are clear as day; thanks for explaining in detail.

I do feel that I need to emphasize that I am not pinning blame on any one side: to me the story seems like a combination of Frank's unpreparedness for delivering these products, and your lack of oversight of his expenditures and not keeping a closer eye on his progress (at least for the first batch). The reason I'm saying the latter (i.e. your side) is because of your wording in the original post, basically amounting to "we paid Frank a [lump sum amount]", and a close eye on the progress NOT in the sense that you phrase it (i.e. sticking your nose in every single aspect of the build, most of which I'm guessing from your post you understandably do not have the skill/experience/knowhow to comment on anyway), but in a business sense, as the giver of a buttload of money to a producer for a product. 

To be fair, I'm getting the feeling that all this is just a case of "illusion of control" on my side. I'd like to say I'd have done things differently (and thus gotten a better result), but who knows? Maybe paying closer attention (i.e. daily, personal check-ins, howyoudoing's, etc.) would have made a difference, but maybe you did all that anyway and I'm just ignorant of what happened on a daily basis in your business (completely obvious).

Anyway, hope you guys resolve this dispute one way or another and we keep getting new, innovative guitars!


----------



## GXPO

arsonist said:


> To be fair, I'm getting the feeling that all this is just a case of "illusion of control" on my side. I'd like to say I'd have done things differently (and thus gotten a better result), but who knows? Maybe paying closer attention (i.e. daily, personal check-ins, howyoudoing's, etc.) would have made a difference, but maybe you did all that anyway and I'm just ignorant of what happened on a daily basis in your business (completely obvious).



I don't think you're fully following or understanding what Tosin is saying if you think that a daily howdy-doody was going to somehow resolve the issues present in a clearly mismanaged manufacturing environment. I don't doubt that everyone went into the venture with the best intentions, but the real smoking gun is the lack of delivery and poorly explained away QC issues. We all saw them and we've been through this enough as a group to understand what they're likely to mean. 

Tosin has another job travelling the world as a touring musician, running clinics etc and you don't keep a dog and bark yourself. How can you possibly think to give him advice in this scenario? 

It's pretty clear that Frank can produce a product, just maybe not to the scale this venture needed at the moment.


----------



## Darthphineas

Randy said:


> Not a justification but based on the arguments put forward by his supporters, my assumption is that Frank is content to* let this playout legally,* as opposed to trying to fight that battle infront of the jury of SSO.
> 
> In that scenario, Frank likely believes he'll be vindicated and as such, free to discuss things OTHER than Abasi guitars in the meantime.
> 
> I say none of that as a justification but thats at least what I can extract of the psychology in this case.



letting "this playout legally" might make sense for all concerned, rather that air grievances at this juncture.


----------



## arsonist

GXPO said:


> I don't think you're fully following or understanding what Tosin is saying if you think that a daily howdy-doody was going to somehow resolve the issues present in a clearly mismanaged manufacturing environment.
> 
> Tosin has another job travelling the world as a touring musician, running clinics etc and you don't keep a dog and bark yourself. How can you possibly think to give him advice in this scenario?.



I think it is you who misunderstood what I was saying. It still stands that closer attention paid to Frank's progress for a first batch of products with my name on it would not be at all unwarranted. I never stated in any terms that this would "resolve" any issues. I'm simply stating this relatively unarguable fact that that may have helped flag the issue sooner, therefor save money, time, etc.

But with the second sentence you clearly arrive at the heart of your argument, which is "Tosin doesn't have the time to do that", which let's be *very clear: Tosin never actually hides behind*. 
I'm not even sure what to make of the "How can you possibly think to give him advice in this scenario" question, so I'll just leave that one.



GXPO said:


> It's pretty clear that Frank can produce a product, just maybe not to the scale this venture needed at the moment.



...you're essentially telling me why my argument makes sense, i.e. Frank is a great producer but since he couldn't manage the scale, should have been monitored more closely.


----------



## diagrammatiks

arsonist said:


> I think it is you who misunderstood what I was saying. It still stands that closer attention paid to Frank's progress for a first batch of products with my name on it would not be at all unwarranted. I never stated in any terms that this would "resolve" any issues. I'm simply stating this relatively unarguable fact that that may have helped flag the issue sooner, therefor save money, time, etc.
> 
> But with the second sentence you clearly arrive at the heart of your argument, which is "Tosin doesn't have the time to do that", which let's be *very clear: Tosin never actually hides behind*.
> I'm not even sure what to make of the "How can you possibly think to give him advice in this scenario" question, so I'll just leave that one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...you're essentially telling me why my argument makes sense, i.e. Frank is a great producer but since he couldn't manage the scale, should have been monitored more closely.



Have you have run a large scale business that requires partnerships or suppliers? 

Unless you have no other choice you strive to work with people that you trust. That’s called doing due diligance. 

If you trust them you trust that they can get the work done without daily checkups. 

Anecdotally I can tell you that in my industry very large amounts of money get moved around for contract work and there’s almost no oversight on the leve that your talking about.


----------



## GXPO

arsonist said:


> ...you're essentially telling me why my argument makes sense, i.e. Frank is a great producer but since he couldn't manage the scale, should have been monitored more closely.



I'm not telling you why your argument makes sense.. No amount of Tosin who, as he stated, doesn't have experience manufacturing guitars being present would have made any difference at all to the way the situation panned out. At the earliest point his attention could have made a difference he took action to ensure that it didn't go any further. 

You can monitor someone all day, if they're not able to produce to a scale to which they'd agreed from the start then no amount of whip cracking makes a difference. You enter into a manufacturing deal with an entity you trust with an expectation that they hold up their end. You meet them at agreed points down the line to discuss progress and alter where needed, if there's a problem you discuss it. Tosin has mentioned that his trust was likely misplaced, but that doesn't mean in hindsight he should have been there doing the job for which he's already paid someone to do. 

I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just not sure how you've read the same thread I have and this is your conclusion.


----------



## Randy

arsonist said:


> I think it is you who misunderstood what I was saying. It still stands that closer attention paid to Frank's progress for a first batch of products with my name on it would not be at all unwarranted. I never stated in any terms that this would "resolve" any issues. I'm simply stating this relatively unarguable fact that that may have helped flag the issue sooner, therefor save money, time, etc.
> 
> But with the second sentence you clearly arrive at the heart of your argument, which is "Tosin doesn't have the time to do that", which let's be *very clear: Tosin never actually hides behind*.
> I'm not even sure what to make of the "How can you possibly think to give him advice in this scenario" question, so I'll just leave that one.
> 
> 
> 
> ...you're essentially telling me why my argument makes sense, i.e. Frank is a great producer but since he couldn't manage the scale, should have been monitored more closely.



Just stop. I'm keeping this thread reasonably, loosely moderated but that requires showing some discretion and judgement when deciding what you're going to post, and considering you're not directly involved with either entity, you don't manage a factory and you're not a lawyer, show some goddamn restraint and stop throwing your unqualified weight around in here.

At this point you're spending all your effort trying to reaffirm yourself rather than make any cogent point. We heard you the first time. If every person that wanted to arm-chair criticize the process decided that alotted them a dozen replies saying the same thing, this thread would be 3000 pages long already.


----------



## arsonist

Removed comment due to mod request above


----------



## cardinal

This is just an absolute disaster, but anyone with a pitchfork in hand remember that most folks end up in a bad situation because they just screwed up, not because they had some nefarious intentions.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

animalsasleader said:


> ABASI concepts purchased manufactured goods from Falbo Designs LLC


How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> This is just an absolute disaster, but anyone with a pitchfork in hand remember that most folks end up in a bad situation because they just screwed up, not because they had some nefarious intentions.



It's definitely a rough start for a young brand, but no one is dead. No one is injured, minus a bruised ego and lacerated pride. 

Tosin is now working with Grover Fucking Jackson, and Frank is bringing new and exciting guitars to NAMM 19'. 

All customers have been refunded. 

Measured against other luthier implosions, this is probably the best overall outcome.


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?





Man I love your pickups and your work but you've just entered into crazyville.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?



You can embezzle from your own company. Just because you own the company doesn't mean you're King and are able to get funds whenever you want, especially if you have outstanding orders or owe suppliers. 

You can take a loan from your company, or a salary. It's really about intent and how it was accounted for.


----------



## Dreamfullofzen

ElysianGuitars said:


> How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?


I am tempted to use the inigo montoya meme but I've used up my levity quata for the day.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

diagrammatiks said:


> Man I love your pickups and your work but you've just entered into crazyville.


What is so crazy about that question?

How high is the burden of proof on embezzlement against your own company?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

MaxOfMetal said:


> All customers have been refunded.





You can't get lost time back but a refund makes a huge difference in these circumstances. Especially when there is no nonsense delaying it.


----------



## GXPO

ElysianGuitars said:


> What is so crazy about that question?


What exactly is your stake in this? Was Elysian involved in the agreement or production?

You can embezzle from your own company in US law if there is intent and you're seeking to deprive the company. Otherwise, any money taken off the top would be declared as income and taxable or taken as a loan and subject to different rules. (Taken from google, I'm no lawyer)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> What is so crazy about that question?
> 
> How high is the burden of proof on embezzlement against your own company?



Depends on what a forensic accountant can find.

Essentially any funds taken from the business without proper cause and accounting can be construed as embezzlement, so long as intent can be shown. That's the biggest part of embezzlement: intent.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

MaxOfMetal said:


> Depends on what a forensic accountant can find.
> 
> Essentially any funds taken from the business without proper cause and accounting can be construed as embezzlement, so long as intent can be shown. That's the biggest part of embezzlement: intent.


There's a pretty high bar for intent, right?


----------



## GXPO

ElysianGuitars said:


> There's a pretty high bar for intent, right?


Considering Frank couldn't produce documentation relating to the missing money, how likely is it that he declared it as a personal loan or income?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

GXPO said:


> Considering Frank couldn't produce documentation relating to the missing money, how likely is it that he declared it as a personal loan or income?


I don't know, Tosin hasn't provided any evidence, so we're only going on his word. He's also stating rather factually that Frank embezzled, so I'd think if that's not the case then there is surely a possibility of a slander suit. 

Not that I'm saying Frank was sloppy, but is sloppy accounting enough to prove intent?


----------



## diagrammatiks

ElysianGuitars said:


> What is so crazy about that question?
> 
> How high is the burden of proof on embezzlement against your own company?



I mean definitionally you can only embezzle money form yourself or someplace you work from. Otherwise, it’s just stealing.


----------



## GXPO

ElysianGuitars said:


> I don't know, Tosin hasn't provided any evidence, so we're only going on his word. He's also stating rather factually that Frank embezzled, so I'd think if that's not the case then there is surely a possibility of a slander suit.
> 
> Not that I'm saying Frank was sloppy, but is sloppy accounting enough to prove intent?



Probably not, but between what we've been told by Tosin and what we've not been told by Frank it paints a pretty grim picture. This is the court of public opinion and the target audience to which Frank intends to sell his new range of guitars and pleading the fifth while having other people argue his case for him isn't working in his favour. Maybe he's been told at this point that he shouldn't say any more, maybe he doesn't want to get mixed up in a shitstorm, who knows.

Point being, based on the information we have here, it looks bad on Frank. Outside of the accusations of stealing (which has been properly explained on the balance of it) and the inference that Tosin was overbearing in his demands for information, what is the defence?

There are plenty of people here who can read between the lines and Frank's 'statement' speaks volumes.

EDIT: I know we don't have all the facts here. I'm not meaning to say this is all definitely the case, but viewed objectively, how does it really look?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

GXPO said:


> Probably not, but between what we've been told by Tosin and what we've not been told by Frank it paints a pretty grim picture. This is the court of public opinion and the target audience to which Frank intends to sell his new range of guitars and pleading the fifth *while having other people argue his case for him* isn't working in his favour. Maybe he's been told at this point that he shouldn't say any more, maybe he doesn't want to get mixed up in a shitstorm, who knows.
> 
> Point being, based on the information we have here, it looks bad on Frank. Outside of the accusations of stealing (which has been properly explained on the balance of it) and the inference that Tosin was overbearing in his demands for information, what is the defence?
> 
> There are plenty of people here who can read between the lines and Frank's 'statement' speaks volumes.
> 
> EDIT: I know we don't have all the facts here. I'm not meaning to say this is all definitely the case, but viewed objectively, how does it really look?


Just to be clear, Frank isn't having me argue his case for him.


----------



## GXPO

ElysianGuitars said:


> Just to be clear, Frank isn't having me argue his case for him.



Not having you explicitly argue for him, but he's not here and you are. I get that you're defending someone who you have a relationship with and I'm not criticizing that, just to be clear.


----------



## prlgmnr

ElysianGuitars said:


> How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?


I'm not sure we're all ready for analysis as astute as this.


----------



## diagrammatiks

prlgmnr said:


> I'm not sure we're all ready for analysis as astute as this.



I mean. Really


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> I don't know, Tosin hasn't provided any evidence, so we're only going on his word. He's also stating rather factually that Frank embezzled, so I'd think if that's not the case then there is surely a possibility of a slander suit.
> 
> Not that I'm saying Frank was sloppy, but is sloppy accounting enough to prove intent?



Slander is spoken, libel is written.

The catch is, if it's proven as true, it's not libel. There are further complications, so much like the embezzlement claim, without all the evidence it's impossible to say.


----------



## BuckarooBanzai

ElysianGuitars said:


> How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?



This runs completely counter to the entire point of a business being a legal entity distinct from its owners. In your mind are the business's assets yours personally? How would creditors be made whole when the business defaults on its financial obligations? Are you a child?

**EDIT: clarity


----------



## Andromalia

My, you just forget about this topic and BOOM 5 pages all at once.


----------



## SubzeroJake

I think it's along the lines of if business partner A request funds from business partner B for a specific reason I.E. raw materials or parts, and the funds get spent on anything other than what was agreed upon then it can be considered misappropriation of money. And if the checks were written to partner A directly and not partner A's business then partner B has even more of a right to know what the money was spent on.


----------



## skmanga

If anything this has put Falbo on the ergo/6-7-8 string/mulsticale guitar map.
Would Falbo even be headed in that direction solo, had it not been for his partnership with Tosin?
Had anyone ever asked Falbo for that kind of build before? Had he ever built anything like that before for a customer?

He sure can at this point it seems.

Can someone please explain how a false embezzlement accusation against Frank Falbo would hurt him?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Mo Jiggity said:


> This runs completely counter to the entire point of a business being a legal entity distinct from its owners. In your mind are the business's assets yours personally? How would creditors be made whole when the business defaults on its financial obligations? Are you a child?
> 
> **EDIT: clarity



Would explain a lot of luthier meltdowns. Ayyy it’s all my money. Gonna buy some beer.


----------



## Dreamfullofzen

ElysianGuitars said:


> I don't know, Tosin hasn't provided any evidence, so we're only going on his word. He's also stating rather factually that Frank embezzled, so I'd think if that's not the case then there is surely a possibility of a slander suit.
> 
> Not that I'm saying Frank was sloppy, but is sloppy accounting enough to prove intent?


I have to be honest..your arguments for your friend are paper thin, and weak...

By the sounds of the legal matter at hand.. Tosin would have been instructed by his lawyer not to post such evidence on a forum for incredibly obvious reasons...

And Frank, who I'm sorry to say is obviously guilty of something, has been told to remain silent to avoid making his case much more worse than it is... 

I should point out this is just an observation from personal experience; the guilty or ones in the shit are usually told by their lawyer/attorney/legal rep to zip their mouth.. I am sure if he had done nothing wrong he would be here to defend himself...

Again, just an observation.

I should point out that just because someone is your friend & you like them, doesn't absolve them of wrong doing.. We have all had friends who we never thought would do something shitty or fucked up.. It's life...

At this point, I say if you want to stick up for him, avoid semantics and talk hard facts.


----------



## jephjacques

Since all the dirty laundry appears to be hanging out to dry, I'll add my two cents- Frank spent like an hour on the phone with me, telling me a sob story and throwing Tosin under the bus. Then asked him to report back anything Tosin told ME about HIM. It was, uh, weird.


----------



## diagrammatiks

jephjacques said:


> Since all the dirty laundry appears to be hanging out to dry, I'll add my two cents- Frank spent like an hour on the phone with me, telling me a sob story and throwing Tosin under the bus. Then asked him to report back anything Tosin told ME about HIM. It was, uh, weird.



This feels like a joke only you could tell. That can’t be real


----------



## GunpointMetal

Sounds like everyone is being very professional surrounding the whole thing. If I was Abasi, I probably would have been a little salty to see a "custom" guitar come out with so many obvious design elements lifted from his design and I'd probably bomb Falbo, too. Even if you subtract all the accusations and drama, Falbo guitars put out a subpar product way behind schedule and that relationship would have been over anyways.


----------



## animalsasleader

ElysianGuitars said:


> How can Frank embezzle from his own LLC?



You clearly have repeatedly have missed the part about him also being CBDO and a partial equity holder in ABASI...


----------



## Randy

jephjacques said:


> Since all the dirty laundry appears to be hanging out to dry, I'll add my two cents- Frank spent like an hour on the phone with me, telling me a sob story and throwing Tosin under the bus. Then asked him to report back anything Tosin told ME about HIM. It was, uh, weird.



Well, the big takeaway I get from this is that at least Frank DOES have some kind of alternative perspective to what happened, so at least we know that exists even if we haven't heard it here. As far as asking what Tosin said about him, look... the guy's reputation has taken a hit a number of ways and there's a lot of 'he said/she said' going on, so it's not especially surprising or damaging (IMO) that he'd want to know what's being said. 

Definitely an awkward situation for you to be in but unexpected (considering the circumstance), not necessarily.

Juicy as the whole thing is, I'll be happy to see this all over and done with.


----------



## cip 123

animalsasleader said:


> Frank wanted a thickness sander? We bought him one.



Hey I could use one of those.

Christmas was only 4 weeks ago...


----------



## spudmunkey

cip 123 said:


> Hey I could use one of those.
> 
> Christmas was only 4 weeks ago...



Same. I've been belt-sanding and planing like a schmuck all weekend.


----------



## odibrom

Is it time for the free stuff now? Where do I sign in?

Now seriously, this is only but a shame do the business. We live and learn...


----------



## axxessdenied

IF there is a pending criminal case against Frank it's really in his best interest not to say anything as it could be used against him. Whether he is guilty or innocent. Say one wrong thing and poof, there goes any chance you have. That's basically the first legal advice any lawyer will give you is to stay quiet and let them play the system to your advantage.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Nevermind. Not worth it.


----------



## narad

Dreamfullofzen said:


> And Frank, who I'm sorry to say is obviously guilty of something,



Damn dude, hope to not have you on my jury.



GunpointMetal said:


> Even if you subtract all the accusations and drama, Falbo guitars put out a subpar product way behind schedule and that relationship would have been over anyways.



Have you played one?

C'mon guys, don't be the mob. I think it's totally possible that things could have gone down as Tosin said they did, but jeez, no one gains anything from rushing to the gallows.


----------



## Watty

ElysianGuitars said:


> Nevermind. Not worth it.



Has anything said necessarily been “worth it” up until now? Just curious as to where the bar is relative to coming to your friends defense in general.

Regardless, I wish one of them would simply post a hard confirmation that there is either a lawsuit filed that precludes the possibility for further discussion by either party (unlikely since Tosin continues to post details that seem bordering above statements of fact) or reveal more information to close this out, have to keep refreshing every afternoon to find out what’s happened like some sitcom...


----------



## Demiurge

^In many states, civil suits can be searched online, so if people are really that nosy it can probably be found if one knows which county it was filed in.


----------



## SurfingAlpaca

Randy said:


> Jeez, everybody's got a razor these days.


Hanlon's razor is a principle that states: "never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity". Basically I don't want to believe Falbo did this out of pure malice; not because I have anything to do with him (I only heard about him due to this thread tbh) but because I'm not a judge. I must say I do love this thread though. The drama is great. Also people who linked me to the kiesel thread thank you very much


----------



## Dreamfullofzen

narad said:


> Damn dude, hope to not have you on my jury.


Off with his head!!

Nah.. They wouldn't put a loony like me on a jury. Plus I'm not american.

Btw guilty of something doesn't always mean something incredible insidious... You can be guilty of being stupid...negligent...and so forth. My point was he must have done something wrong for it to have gone the way it did.. But I digress since it's not important and I've said all I have to on the matter.

For what it's worth, I'm guilty of being fucking awesome. The sentence? Beer & pretzels and bad movies.


----------



## Bearitone

ixlramp said:


> Thumb-over technique high up the neck on an 8 string? =) It's already a crippled and unhealthy enough technique on a narrow 6 string neck, makes me cringe. Players need to break their bad habits.


I know right? I was talking to a luthier about Rick Toone’s trapezoidal profile and he immediately started trashing it saying “well gee whiz when i cup my hand like this *does thumb over neck technique* that doesn’t look like a trapezoid does it?” 

Was bummed to see someone who makes guitars expect others to play with that technique. I guess a lot of people do though


----------



## narad

It's not a bad habit at all. It's just not a great strategy for playing prog metal on a thin-necked, wide-necked guitar. People trashing on thumb-over are talking like it's objectively bad -- and maybe for certain goals and certain instruments it is -- but I don't think it's surprising if a luthier who doesn't have those musical goals -> doesn't play that way -> doesn't build that type of instrument. Grab a nocaster or a 58 LP, and play something that's all bends in frets 3-12, and see which style is more ergonomic for you.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

MaxOfMetal said:


> Tosin is now working with Grover Fucking Jackson



I'm interested to know why the current batch of guitars in Japan was finished by an unnamed builder in Japan rather than Grover Jackson. I haven't heard/seen anything about the Grover Jackson relationship since the only mention of it back in November.


----------



## AxeHappy

narad said:


> It's not a bad habit at all. It's just not a great strategy for playing prog metal on a thin-necked, wide-necked guitar. People trashing on thumb-over are talking like it's objectively bad -- and maybe for certain goals and certain instruments it is -- but I don't think it's surprising if a luthier who doesn't have those musical goals -> doesn't play that way -> doesn't build that type of instrument. Grab a nocaster or a 58 LP, and play something that's all bends in frets 3-12, and see which style is more ergonomic for you.




Thumb over tends to work better for anything involving bends or certain vibrato styles. It shouldn't be a decision between the two but rather learning to use whatever works best for one in any given situation.


----------



## StevenC

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> I'm interested to know why the current batch of guitars in Japan was finished by an unnamed builder in Japan rather than Grover Jackson. I haven't heard/seen anything about the Grover Jackson relationship since the only mention of it back in November.


There may have been an amount of time where between the guitars being seized and the connection with Grover Jackson, where guitars that were meant for Japan could have been sent to Japan and finished there quicker.


----------



## narad

AxeHappy said:


> Thumb over tends to work better for anything involving bends or certain vibrato styles. It shouldn't be a decision between the two but rather learning to use whatever works best for one in any given situation.



Yea, but you hit the youtube comments sections these days and it's tons of 15 year old metal kids, "Thumb over! Thumb over! Novice! MEDIOCRE!!", etc. when it's like...Cliffs of Dover or something. I've watched vids of EJ playing that -- thumb over all the time when it makes sense. Calling people out on it's just become signaling of some kind.


----------



## Hollowway

I know I'm late to the party, but I was going to add that embezzlement from your own company happens all the time. It's basically buying personal stuff with company funds. In other words, buying personal things with pretax dollars. It's usually an IRS issue, since the owner and embezzler are the same person, so the owner is hardly going to turn in the embezzler. So, in this instance, if Frank were audited, he'd have to provide receipts for all of the purchases made through the company. If the total of the receipts didn't match the total for the income or capital of the business, then the IRS starts asking for back taxes with penalties and interest and stuff. That's my understanding of it, anyway. The IRS is really on it with this stuff, because literally no one else would know, because you'd never turn yourself in. People try to rationalize personal purchases as business purchases all the time, but the IRS has specific rules about what qualifies and what doesn't. Anyway, I have a friend who is a CPA and we've talked about what small business clients sometimes do with respect to mixing personal and business stuff like that.


----------



## SubzeroJake

http://www.ventura.courts.ca.gov/CivilCaseSearch/CaseName Nothing between Abasi and Falbo came up.


----------



## SubzeroJake

https://www.ftb.ca.gov/businesses/faq/742.shtml

Suspended or forfeited business entities cannot:


Legally transact business.
Bring an action or defend itself in court.
Receive an automatic extension of time to file.
File a claim for refund.
File or maintain an appeal before the Office of Tax Appeals.
Begin or continue a protest.
Legally close or dissolve the business.
Maintain the right to use their name.
California Secretary of State denies our revivor requests if the entity name is no longer available.

Retain tax-exempt status.
We revoke an organization’s tax-exempt status as of the suspension date.

Suspended or forfeited business entities are subject to a $2000 penalty per tax year for failure to file missing tax returns within 60 days after receiving a written demand to do so.

Shareholders that allow a business entity to suspend instead of legally dissolving it may, under certain circumstances, become personally liable for taxes it owes.


----------



## Demiurge

SubzeroJake said:


> http://www.ventura.courts.ca.gov/CivilCaseSearch/CaseName Nothing between Abasi and Falbo came up.



It could also be filed in the county where Abasi lives or where his company's address is.


----------



## RiksRiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Tosin is now working with Grover Fucking Jackson, and Frank is bringing new and exciting guitars to NAMM 19'.



Sorry, I waited all day to post this:

"Tosin and Grover are doing WHAT to Jackson???"

For the record, I know who Grover Jackson is, I just needed to vent my inner mid-schooler.


----------



## prlgmnr

RiksRiks said:


> I just needed to vent my inner mid-schooler.



If you want to do that in here you can always present some astonishingly naive misunderstandings of business finance.


----------



## eaeolian

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Wow, even the mods here are in the Cult of Abasi.



Nope. Sticking up for my friend Jason. I know Frank, I've met Tosin once, and there's 3 sides to every story. Regardless, there's no point to airing this stuff in public.


----------



## xzacx

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> I'm interested to know why the current batch of guitars in Japan was finished by an unnamed builder in Japan rather than Grover Jackson. I haven't heard/seen anything about the Grover Jackson relationship since the only mention of it back in November.



You mean other than _yesterday_ in this very post?



animalsasleader said:


> Luckily I don’t need to walk into Grover Jackson shop and attempt to refine his processes.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

eaeolian said:


> Nope. Sticking up for my friend Jason. I know Frank, I've met Tosin once, and there's 3 sides to every story. Regardless, there's no point to airing this stuff in public.



I was joking, given the dude seemed to think everyone grilling frank was an Abasi follower or some shit.


----------



## cardinal

AxeHappy said:


> Thumb over tends to work better for anything involving bends or certain vibrato styles. It shouldn't be a decision between the two but rather learning to use whatever works best for one in any given situation.



Yeah, my thumb usually is behind the neck in the classical position. But for a big bend or a really emphatic vibrato, it sneaks over the top. 

I use to play with it wrapped over the top all the time, but I started developing a lot of wrist pain. Moving my thumb to the back of the neck fixed the wrist pain, and eventually I unconsciously developed a habit of having it creep over for certain things and then naturally fall back to behind the neck. That seems to be the best of both worlds, though full disclosure: I'm a real no-talent hack, so I probably shouldn't be giving anyone technique advice.


----------



## jephjacques

prlgmnr said:


> If you want to do that in here you can always present some astonishingly naive misunderstandings of business finance.



MERCILESS


----------



## GunpointMetal

narad said:


> Have you played one?


Even IF they played perfectly, the fit and finish from a ton of photos showed issues unacceptable on a $500 guitar (which usually play just fine, too), and definitely not on a “semi-custom” instrument costing thousands of dollars.


----------



## narad

GunpointMetal said:


> Even IF they played perfectly, the fit and finish from a ton of photos showed issues unacceptable on a $500 guitar (which usually play just fine, too), and definitely not on a “semi-custom” instrument costing thousands of dollars.



I don't know - do you have photos of these issues on the guitars Frank finished? I remember the "buffing compound" photos from way back, and that was the last I saw, and I saw these guitars in person with my own eyes inches away from them. At least in terms of the neck pocket / alignment / finish transitions around that part, there wasn't anything wrong with them. I didn't hold it in my hands (because the one guy at that shop is pretty ornery), but I gave 3 of them a good look over.

Also, I think that line of what is unacceptable on $X guitar is funny. Semi-custom instruments costing thousands of dollars routinely have fit and finish issues. So you can use a strong word like "unacceptable", but in reality speak, it kind of is acceptable -- because small stuff happens all the time. But unless you post a photo I can't be sure of what exactly you're referring to.


----------



## jephjacques

10,000 years from now, aliens will dig up a functioning laptop and there will STILL be randos arguing about the fucking finish on that first batch of guitars

(the one I played in Tokyo was really nice)


----------



## Avedas

narad said:


> I didn't hold it in my hands (because the one guy at that shop is pretty ornery)


I might know who you're talking about 

For what it's worth, the one I played for about 30 minutes in Kanda was excellent, but the neck joint did have some buffing compound fuckery. I couldn't get a decent picture of that on my phone but the guitar was otherwise really nice.


----------



## GunpointMetal

narad said:


> Also, I think that line of what is unacceptable on $X guitar is funny. Semi-custom instruments costing thousands of dollars routinely have fit and finish issues. So you can use a strong word like "unacceptable", but in reality speak, it kind of is acceptable -- because small stuff happens all the time. But unless you post a photo I can't be sure of what exactly you're referring to.


I'm not digging 130 pages of thread to find the pictures. If I pay over $2K for a guitar and there are errors I wouldn't find on a $500 guitar, that thing is going back ASAP. "Handmade" isn't a reason to accept errors, and the price definitely justifies expecting a perfect instrument from playability, to electronics, to every single centimeter of finish.


----------



## narad

GunpointMetal said:


> I'm not digging 130 pages of thread to find the pictures. If I pay over $2K for a guitar and there are errors I wouldn't find on a $500 guitar, that thing is going back ASAP. "Handmade" isn't a reason to accept errors, and the price definitely justifies expecting a perfect instrument from playability, to electronics, to every single centimeter of finish.



Again, if you can't show, or even state what errors they are, I don't know how you can bring it up at this point in the thread as evidence. 

I've seen lifted frets, sprouting frets, chipped frets, poorly cut nuts, bad pickup routes, glue leaking on the fretboard/neck seam, glue in the neck join, filler in binding seams, excessive filler around inlays, uneven staining, uneven side dots, a chip in the fretboard, and other things I can't remember FROM BRANDS that are super worshipped on here, on sig guitars guys on here gush over, from luthiers who are generally considered as really good. And my god if you saw how shoddy that FF blackmachine was when the tech posted photos of it. 

So I find this a flakey argument. If it's a superficial issue, then it's not some thing unique to Frank. It's not a good sign if the first three guitars out the door have errors in them, of course, but I'm pretty sure that's not what happened here if the Japan batch was any indication. Not sure how many made it out here exactly - thought it was maybe 8 or so, I saw 3 in person. 3 were totally fine.

If you can't talk about the issues, can't post pictures, you didn't see them in person on finished instruments, and you can't talk about how they effected play on the guitar, I'm going to say you don't have much of a leg to stand on in terms of assessing a guitar's quality.


----------



## jephjacques

I too am extremely mad about a guitar that barely exists and I will never own


----------



## GunpointMetal

Ok, for the sake of me not spending the time...they were fine, they were late, and they were overbudget, and there was obviously some, uh, creative accounting from a business perspective, so even with the issues nobody should pay for at that price that are perfectly acceptable because its handmade, all that other stuff points to poor business skills and the whole reason I made the point to begin with. People are acting like Tosin is being unreasonable or something and even if the guitars were perfect, all of the other issues would be enough for me to not risk ordering anything from the builder. But since you wanna microfocus on ONE part of the post I made, please, carry on.


----------



## narad

GunpointMetal said:


> Ok, for the sake of me not spending the time...they were fine, they were late, and they were overbudget, and there was obviously some, uh, creative accounting from a business perspective, so even with the issues nobody should pay for at that price that are perfectly acceptable because its handmade, all that other stuff points to poor business skills and the whole reason I made the point to begin with. People are acting like Tosin is being unreasonable or something and even if the guitars were perfect, all of the other issues would be enough for me to not risk ordering anything from the builder. But since you wanna microfocus on ONE part of the post I made, please, carry on.



You claimed "Falbo guitars put out a subpar product", and I simply asked if you had any experience to back up your claim. I think it's good if someone states something as fact, that they have some experience. 
Like I don't go write Yelp reviews for places I haven't eaten at - "Of course it tastes shitty and the service was terrible, didn't you see the photos on the website?" 

I didn't know that was a _microfocus_, but then again, I have a microfiber cloth which seems a lot like a plain ol' regular cloth to me, so I might be missing the nuance.


----------



## diagrammatiks

narad said:


> You claimed "Falbo guitars put out a subpar product", and I simply asked if you had any experience to back up your claim. I think it's good if someone states something as fact, that they have some experience.
> Like I don't go write Yelp reviews for places I haven't eaten at - "Of course it tastes shitty and the service was terrible, didn't you see the photos on the website?"
> 
> I didn't know that was a _microfocus_, but then again, I have a microfiber cloth which seems a lot like a plain ol' regular cloth to me, so I might be missing the nuance.



Gonna have to agree with Narad here. 

The cheaper and more machine assisted a process is the less random weird stuff should go wrong. 

Most higher prices guys will use CNC to cut bodies and hand finish everything else. But a lot can be machined these days. 

My Anderson has a weird side dot. My prs has some weird finish stuff going on. Minor stuff is fine for me.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Well I guess everyone isn't as picky as me. I can get an Agile for $600 that will play perfectly with a setup and have zero finish issues. If I drop a shitload of coin on a handmade guitar, I'm not accepting anything less than perfect. One spot of filler, one wonky side dot, that bitch is going back.


----------



## cardinal

All I know, is that I hope these guys get it sorted out because I would really like one of these:






(but with a wider neck, SRLY).


----------



## diagrammatiks

GunpointMetal said:


> Well I guess everyone isn't as picky as me. I can get an Agile for $600 that will play perfectly with a setup and have zero finish issues. If I drop a shitload of coin on a handmade guitar, I'm not accepting anything less than perfect. One spot of filler, one wonky side dot, that bitch is going back.



Ok. You do you.


----------



## narad

cardinal said:


> All I know, is that I hope these guys get it sorted out because I would really like one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (but with a wider neck, SRLY).



I agree with you about the want, but not about the wider neck


----------



## xzacx

GunpointMetal said:


> Well I guess everyone isn't as picky as me. I can get an Agile for $600 that will play perfectly with a setup and have zero finish issues. If I drop a shitload of coin on a handmade guitar, I'm not accepting anything less than perfect. One spot of filler, one wonky side dot, that bitch is going back.



Yeah, but then you'd have a $600 Agile. Nothing wrong with expecting quality for your money—it's your money and I'm not trying to tell you what to do with it. I just think there's a little more to it than that. It's not a strict price-to-perfection ratio when you're buying something handmade like that. If it plays and sounds the way I want, I'd overlook a lot of small stuff personally. If it didn't, then I'm sure that small stuff would bother me more. But I'd actually have to have it in my hands to make that determination.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

The wider neck might not be possible anymore depending on how they are manufactured now.


----------



## cardinal

Lorcan Ward said:


> The wider neck might not be possible anymore depending on how they are manufactured now.



Yeah, I assume that's going to be pretty fixed. I'm partially kidding, but trying to at least point out to the powers-that-be that at least I think those strings are REALLY close to the edges of the frets and could make for some playability headaches. Tosin's technique is likely flawless, so maybe not a concern for him? Or maybe it's totally fine either way, but it seems close to me.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Yeah, I assume that's going to be pretty fixed. I'm partially kidding, but trying to at least point out to the powers-that-be that at least I think those strings are REALLY close to the edges of the frets and could make for some playability headaches. Tosin's technique is likely flawless, so maybe not a concern for him? Or maybe it's totally fine either way, but it seems close to me.



Maybe the Grover ones will have wider necks?

Have we seen a straight fret Grover build yet?


----------



## BigViolin

That is one of the reasons I like the Ibanez 8s, plenty of room on the sides of the fretboard.


----------



## Bearitone

narad said:


> It's not a bad habit at all. It's just not a great strategy for playing prog metal on a thin-necked, wide-necked guitar. People trashing on thumb-over are talking like it's objectively bad -- and maybe for certain goals and certain instruments it is -- but I don't think it's surprising if a luthier who doesn't have those musical goals -> doesn't play that way -> doesn't build that type of instrument. Grab a nocaster or a 58 LP, and play something that's all bends in frets 3-12, and see which style is more ergonomic for you.



I did some reading and you’re right. I don’t why but, i always thought that thumb-over was objectively unhealthy and would stop you from progressing at some point. Turns out even prog-djenty Mark Holcomb frets with his thumb sometimes. Go figure


----------



## SDMFVan

Bearitone said:


> I did some reading and you’re right. I don’t why but, i always thought that thumb-over was objectively unhealthy and would stop you from progressing at some point. Turns out even prog-djenty Mark Holcomb frets with his thumb sometimes. Go figure



People around here tend to put way too much weight on what constitutes "proper" technique. Where there's a will, there's a way...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

SDMFVan said:


> People around here tend to put way too much weight on what constitutes "proper" technique. Where there's a will, there's a way...


adapting to a physical limitation and deliberately hampering your playing via poor technique are very different though. It's not that playing with your thumb over is bad when done *occasionally*, it's that some people consistently do it and develop injuries because they put their wrists in a non relaxed position. Excessive dorsiflexion or palmar flexion is really bad for your wrist (hello carpal tunnel), and the emphasis of keeping the thumb on the midline/wrist relatively in line with the forearm in classical music helps to minimize those kind of repetitive use injuries.


----------



## StevenC

Looks like Abasi brought a bunch of new guitars to NAMM. I've spotted a green one, a red one and a white one. Another one might be purple, but I'm not getting my hopes up.


----------



## skmanga

StevenC said:


> Looks like Abasi brought a bunch of new guitars to NAMM. I've spotted a green one, a red one and a white one. Another one might be purple, but I'm not getting my hopes up.


pictures?


----------



## Seabeast2000

skmanga said:


> pictures?


He's got a "Larada" model sort of on the website. 

https://abasiguitars.com/


----------



## Albake21

The906 said:


> He's got a "Larada" model sort of on the website.
> 
> https://abasiguitars.com/


It's strange that the order form has no options, just a box to write what you want...


----------



## Hollowway

StevenC said:


> Looks like Abasi brought a bunch of new guitars to NAMM. I've spotted a green one, a red one and a white one. Another one might be purple, but I'm not getting my hopes up.



I’m just outside your room, and I’ll kill you if you don’t post pics. You have 24 hours to comply.


----------



## thesnowdog

AxeHappy said:


> Thumb over tends to work better for anything involving bends or certain vibrato styles. It shouldn't be a decision between the two but rather learning to use whatever works best for one in any given situation.



Paul Gilbert has started stressing thumb-over technique in his teaching.


----------



## Polythoral

narad said:


> I've seen lifted frets, sprouting frets, chipped frets, poorly cut nuts, bad pickup routes, glue leaking on the fretboard/neck seam, glue in the neck join, filler in binding seams, excessive filler around inlays, uneven staining, uneven side dots, a chip in the fretboard, and other things I can't remember FROM BRANDS that are super worshipped on here, on sig guitars guys on here gush over, from luthiers who are generally considered as really good. And my god if you saw how shoddy that FF blackmachine was when the tech posted photos of it.


Currently have 4 handmade customs and previously had another 3, can confirm they all have plenty more aesthetic flaws than my sub-$1000 production instruments where I can hardly find anything. That said, I love all my customs dearly.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

thesnowdog said:


> Paul Gilbert has started stressing thumb-over technique in his teaching.



He credits his vibrato and bends to thumb over technique which is why he doesn't like 7 strings nor most 7 string players vibrato. If it's ok for gilbert, malmsteen, Vai and countless other amazing guitarists than I don't feel too guilty about doing it. Maybe if you don't bend and just play rhythm/tapping stuff then you would be strict about it thumb position.


----------



## StevenC

Found on Instagram


----------



## cardinal

Gold with the maple fretboard, yes plz.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Gold with the maple fretboard, yes plz.


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah that gold one is hot


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Interesting to see more solid color painted bodies and that sort of mass produced aesthetic, but not at all surprising considering all that has happened recently. I hadn't even considered he might show up with anything that didn't involve at least 6 woods, these aren't bad at all though. I'm a natural finish kinda guy, but one of these with the right paint code and a few personal touches would look as close as makes no difference like a Lamborghini. I'm already thinking Cyan 







And, a tele model. Go 'head then!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

glassmoon0fo said:


> Interesting to see more solid color painted bodies and that sort of mass produced aesthetic, but not at all surprising considering all that has happened recently. I hadn't even considered he might show up with anything that didn't involve at least 6 woods, these aren't bad at all though. I'm a natural finish kinda guy, but one of these with the right paint code and a few personal touches would look as close as makes no difference like a Lamborghini. I'm already thinking Cyan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And, a tele model. Go 'head then!


if they can do road flare red or colorshifting paint with a maple fretboard, my wallet would be in serious trouble


----------



## Sogradde

Well, that was a fun read.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Everybody's oogling at that gold one, but I'm scoping out the one right next to it. Is that a swirl? Is that a black and purple _*swirl*_?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

They might just be ones half built last year that got painted over.


----------



## narad

Kinda tempted to get one of the half-built ones that seem to have flooded the Tokyo market. $5500s a bit ridiculous though, especially given what we know about the situation of their construction. Anyone reading this with the power can hook me up with a discount?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Lorcan Ward said:


> They might just be ones half built last year that got painted over.


That Tele style one definitely is one Frank was working on. Would not be surprised if the rest are repainted Falbo's as well, they look like the previous style bevel.


----------



## Albake21

That 6 string powder blue one is sexy


----------



## jemfloral

Agreed, that blue/grey one is pretty slick looking.


----------



## StevenC

The black one has the new neck joint, so it's definitely new. Haven't seen the back of the rest. I think the red one is Falbo, but that's only a guess from a bad picture and what could be a shadow.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

looks like Vik helped out with one of the guitars, which is a double cut version with a pickguard


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Edit: Knight got there first

So is Vik working for Frank or is he working for Grover Jackson now. The "Vik stories" Ormsby hinted at may have meant Vik coming to the states to work with Abasi guitars?


----------



## cardinal

Not digging the double cut.


----------



## Albake21

I really like the double cut, mainly because I've never really liked single cuts. I'd be happy with both!

Although to be honest, I really don't like the fact that Vik is involved.


----------



## cip 123

cardinal said:


> Not digging the double cut.


Not digging the Vik.


----------



## I play music

KnightBrolaire said:


> looks like Vik helped out with one of the guitars, which is a double cut version with a pickguard


Brb getting bag of popcorn ...


----------



## Opion

Alright, this thing with Vik has me a little confused. Does anyone else feel the same way?

In the beginning and especially after watching the drama unfold as it has been, it seemed like he was/is very concerned about the reputation of the brand and catering to his customer bass, especially this forum- but he has to be aware of the fallout surround ViK guitars and his homophobic comments about Paul Masvidal and headless guitars. Maybe he wanted to look past it and had to make a decision based on the situation, and ViK delivered. Who knows. But that just seems...strange? I don’t know.

That said, I think it’s pretty cool, albeit a little obnoxious with the top horn being so big but...it works somehow.


----------



## Albake21

Opion said:


> Alright, this thing with Vik has me a little confused. Does anyone else feel the same way?
> 
> In the beginning and especially after watching the drama unfold as it has been, it seemed like he was/is very concerned about the reputation of the brand and catering to his customer bass, especially this forum- but he has to be aware of the fallout surround ViK guitars and his homophobic comments about Paul Masvidal and headless guitars. Maybe he wanted to look past it and had to make a decision based on the situation, and ViK delivered. Who knows. But that just seems...strange? I don’t know.
> 
> That said, I think it’s pretty cool, albeit a little obnoxious with the top horn being so big but...it works somehow.


He acted like a child.... If he wants to act one, he and his brand will get treated like one.


----------



## cip 123

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you like the lgbt community or not that's fair. Vik is perfectly entitled to his opinion, if its for religious reasons or just being intolerant he's entitled to it. Free speech shouldn't be hampered.

That said as part of that community, f*ck him.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Opion said:


> Alright, this thing with Vik has me a little confused. Does anyone else feel the same way?
> 
> In the beginning and especially after watching the drama unfold as it has been, it seemed like he was/is very concerned about the reputation of the brand and catering to his customer bass, especially this forum- but he has to be aware of the fallout surround ViK guitars and his homophobic comments about Paul Masvidal and headless guitars. Maybe he wanted to look past it and had to make a decision based on the situation, and ViK delivered. Who knows. But that just seems...strange? I don’t know.
> 
> That said, I think it’s pretty cool, albeit a little obnoxious with the top horn being so big but...it works somehow.



I don't even think that's all, didn't he also take deposits for a run like 6 years ago and only deliver on like 1 or 2 guitars? I may have to recheck the dealer thread.
Tosin you seem like a stand up guy and if you're reading this man; Vik is not the direction you want to go with. I genuinely hope he is not involved in any even semi-permanent capacity.


----------



## Albake21

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I don't even think that's all, didn't he also take deposits for a run like 6 years ago and only deliver on like 1 or 2 guitars? I may have to recheck the dealer thread.
> Tosin you seem like a stand up guy and if you're reading this man; Vik is not the direction you want to go with. I genuinely hope he is not involved in any even semi-permanent capacity.


Oh this isn't just about his homophobic comments. He also had the 8 string run from 2011 that he never finished. The thread is still very much there in the Dealer section.


----------



## xzacx

Lorcan Ward said:


> Edit: Knight got there first
> 
> So is Vik working for Frank or is he working for Grover Jackson now. The "Vik stories" Ormsby hinted at may have meant Vik coming to the states to work with Abasi guitars?



Knowing his already-bad reputation with this community, I really can't imagine Tosin wanting to get involved with Vik—especially after what he'd just been through with Frank. I really hope I'm not wrong about that, because I'm really interested in a Grover-made Abasi. Vik being involved would be an instant deal breaker though.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

part of me is hoping that vik is just helping ghost build and that's all...


----------



## Albake21

KnightBrolaire said:


> part of me is hoping that vik is just helping ghost build and that's all...


It could be he just helped with the prototype while Grover worked on the current line for NAMM.


----------



## StevenC

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I don't even think that's all, didn't he also take deposits for a run like 6 years ago and only deliver on like 1 or 2 guitars? I may have to recheck the dealer thread.
> Tosin you seem like a stand up guy and if you're reading this man; Vik is not the direction you want to go with. I genuinely hope he is not involved in any even semi-permanent capacity.





Albake21 said:


> Oh this isn't just about his homophobic comments. He also had the 8 string run from 2011 that he never finished. The thread is still very much there in the Dealer section.



There were 2 8 string runs that he's not done anything about, and there is at least one guitar from an earlier run that has never been delivered.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Albake21 said:


> It could be he just helped with the prototype while Grover worked on the current line for NAMM.


yeah possibly. regardless of his inflammatory opinions and general shitbaggery he seems to be able to build solid guitars *when he wants to*


----------



## StevenC

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah possibly. regardless of his inflammatory opinions and general shitbaggery he seems to be able to build solid guitars *when he wants to*


He can build an OK guitar when he wants to.


----------



## Bdtunn

I hope vik is helping with that only. I can’t give that guy money. 

Also the telly was, if I remember was in the Dunable shop just before NAMM with a similar tag line.


----------



## Opion

Thanks everybody for clarifying. I was really really hoping there was going to be no more funny business and this whole Falbo fiasco would eventually die down once the fire is put out. Now I’m a little weary seeing this post from ViK.

He makes beautiful guitars, and yes I might agree with his right to his opinion and free speech; that being said Tosin is apart of a community that all but shamed him whenever Nolly publicly came out against him, ending his signature guitar deal, i’m sure you guys remember. He has to have at least thought this might raise eyebrows. 

Before we jump to conclusions we need to get the whole story of why he even is involved and in what capacity.


----------



## SubzeroJake

Is that branded as an Abasi? Hard to see for me.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

SubzeroJake said:


> Is that branded as an Abasi? Hard to see for me.


it's an abasi. I just didn't get a good screenshot while the headstock was above the text of the ig story


----------



## odibrom

A little off topic, but "Free Speach" is only free until you hit someone in the face, from that moment on, it's not free anymore, it's aggression and abuse and should not be tolerated... imo...

This because of some one being entitled to have an opinion... yes, anyone can have opinions, sharing then... not so much...


----------



## ThePIGI King

odibrom said:


> A little off topic, but "Free Speach" is only free until you hit someone in the face, from that moment on, it's not free anymore, it's aggression and abuse and should not be tolerated... imo...
> 
> This because of some one being entitled to have an opinion... yes, anyone can have opinions, sharing then... not so much...



My opinion is always free. Unless you want to pay me for it, in which case I'll gladly charge.


----------



## cardinal

odibrom said:


> A little off topic, but "Free Speach" is only free until you hit someone in the face, from that moment on, it's not free anymore, it's aggression and abuse and should not be tolerated... imo...
> 
> This because of some one being entitled to have an opinion... yes, anyone can have opinions, sharing then... not so much...



Generally, “freedom of speech” is merely that the government does not preclude people from stating their opinions. It does not generally mean that people should be able to state whatever opinion without facing (lawful) consequences from others who disagree or are offended (boycotts, protests, etc.).


----------



## Randy

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah possibly. regardless of his inflammatory opinions and general shitbaggery he seems to be able to build solid guitars *when he wants to*



That's a very narrowing set of caveats.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Ewwwww. Everything in this thread just keeps getting worse


----------



## Synesthesia

odibrom said:


> A little off topic, but "Free Speach" is only free until you hit someone in the face, from that moment on, it's not free anymore, it's aggression and abuse and should not be tolerated... imo...
> 
> This because of some one being entitled to have an opinion... yes, anyone can have opinions, sharing then... not so much...


Wow... thats not how free speech works. Anyone is allowed to share their opinion about anything. You cant control who can share their opinions or what opinions can be shared. If you choose to not associate with someone because of their stated opinions, that is perfectly fine however.


----------



## BlackMastodon

The rails on this roller coaster are just completely gone, eh?


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Weeeeell I just want a guitar and want to make sure I’m sending money to a person a respect on a basic level (Vik not being one of those people) so it’s weak but still down the middle?


----------



## animalsasleader

StevenC said:


> The black one has the new neck joint, so it's definitely new. Haven't seen the back of the rest. I think the red one is Falbo, but that's only a guess from a bad picture and what could be a shadow.


None of these are Falbo builds, except for the Tele, which we began with Frank last year.


----------



## AxeHappy

But...like...ViK? Seriously? 

At least I had a better experience with ViK than Orsmby...


----------



## I play music

animalsasleader said:


> None of these are Falbo builds, except for the Tele, which we began with Frank last year.


Tell us about how Vik is involved in Abasi please.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

I don't think he is. I thought he was working with Falbo, which would mean now that Abasi is no longer working with Falbo, Vik would no longer be in the picture.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Nope


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

diagrammatiks said:


> Nope



Does that demonstrate an ongoing relationship, or just that he worked on Abasi stuff via his relationship with Falbo? 

I'm just saying, I have heard about a working relationship between Falbo and Vik, but I haven't heard of one between Vik and Tosin or Grover Jackson. It's possible I could be wrong, of course, but I'm not ready to jump to conclusions based on an instagram pic just yet.


----------



## mnemonic

I like the double cut way more than the single cut shape. That being said, I’m not really a big fan of the ergo-style guitars so I’m not really the target market anyway. 

Also, wasn’t it said a few pages back that Vik was working out of Frank’s shop? Or was that just a rumour? 

Given the size of the order Abasi originally put in, Frank would need employees, maybe Vik was working for him.


----------



## jephjacques

oh cool, love to buy guitars from a raging homophobe


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Pretty sure Frank and Vik aren't associated. Maybe Frank will chime in. I do know that double cut design isn't Frank's work, I asked him.


----------



## StevenC




----------



## KnightBrolaire

I just got sent some pics of the new abasi builds from Namm:
looks like fret sprout on the maple fretboard, plastic still on the pickup, weird paint issues around the neck joints and control cavity, some paint bubbles.


----------



## cardinal

Who made them?

Love that yellow. Even more that it has a maple neck too. I’m sure the wenge is super etc., but I’ve had some Warwicks with the stuff and would prefer maple every time.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

cardinal said:


> Who made them?
> 
> Love that yellow. Even more that it has a maple neck too. I’m sure the wenge is super etc., but I’ve had some Warwicks with the stuff and would prefer maple every time.


Not sure, seems like grover and some other CA luthiers like dunable/vik helped ghostbuild. 
from what tosin said earlier in the thread they're all new except for the tele one which was built by frank. 
Wenge necks are the tits though, I love them.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I was curious about that as well. If it was other guys then uh... fuck. Not a good look. 

If it was Grover then biiiiiiig yikes.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Cursed. 

Told you guys.


----------



## I play music

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I was curious about that as well. If it was other guys then uh... fuck. Not a good look.
> 
> If it was Grover then biiiiiiig yikes.


IIRC Ormsby wanted to do a US line with Grover Jackson but Grover had no experience with multiscale ERG ... and probably because of some other reasons also it didn't happen. 
I imagine this is one reason why Perry has some insider knowledge with this whole Abasi story.


----------



## The Hiryuu

Gah. Just keeps getting clusterfuckier and clusterfuckier.


----------



## cardinal

KnightBrolaire said:


> Not sure, seems like grover and some other CA luthiers like dunable/vik helped ghostbuild.
> from what tosin said earlier in the thread they're all new except for the tele one which was built by frank.
> Wenge necks are the tits though, I love them.



Ouch. I was hoping those were WMI or something. If this is the American luthier(s), they need to slow their roll and figure out how to build these things and who to do it before this just gets worse.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Ouch. I was hoping those were WMI or something. If this is the American luthier(s), they need to slow their roll and figure out how to build these things and who to do it before this just gets worse.



It all just looks rushed. 

Maybe third times the charm before they realize they might need to skip a stupid trade show and just focus on making the best instruments they can.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

First time out with all this new stuff and we all knew it didn’t go super smoothly up till now. I dunno why but the only issue that would bother me would maybe be the fretwork, but I’ll reserve final judgement till I hear pricing. 

Hopefully Tosin takes it all in stride and keeps on the come up, those are decently minor issues weighed against the form and function of the instrument, and prolly fairly fixable on the building end. Sell me that gold one RIGHT NOW


----------



## Demiurge

I've never finished a set-neck guitar, but those seams where the neck meets the body must be pretty tough to get right. The designer of the Gibson SG might have been onto something.


----------



## cwhitey2

MaxOfMetal said:


> Cursed.
> 
> Told you guys.


Its honestly dusting to look like that, sadly.

I wouldn't have taken ANY of the ones I have seen in the pics above to namm if my name was on the headstock...


----------



## jephjacques

None of those flaws would be deal-breakers for me but they do seem rushed. I wouldn't say it's THE CURSE OF THE ABASI just yet, these seem more like kinks that can be worked out of the build process rather than vaporware guitars like the Falbo era ones. But I'm a glass half full kind of guy when it comes to cool new gear.


----------



## Albake21

Eh... most of these problems don't bother me too much. I honestly just think most of it was because of being rushed. Until I see guitars built for and put into customers hands, I'm holding all judgment.


----------



## cwhitey2

Albake21 said:


> Eh... most of these problems don't bother me too much. I honestly just think most of it was because of being rushed. Until I see guitars built for and put into customers hands, I'm holding all judgment.


They are so lazy they couldn't properly remove plastic from the pups is face palm wearthy.


----------



## Randy

These are better than the flaws reported in the first batch by leaps and bounds. I can barely make out half the shit in that post.


----------



## cwhitey2

Randy said:


> These are better than the flaws reported in the first batch by leaps and bounds. I can barely make out half the shit in that post.


Do not disagree at all...

But the 2nd time around they should be FLAWLEES. Idc that they are a new company, even knowing the BS that happened.


----------



## Randy

cwhitey2 said:


> Do not disagree at all...
> 
> But the 2nd time around they should be FLAWLEES. Idc that they are a new company, even knowing the BS that happened.



Design is grossly inefficient and near impossible to do cleanly, reliably in a mass production setting. It's a great layout for the player, but if you brought that to WMI they'd either price you at $5000 for still an East Asian guitar (and still not flawless) or they'd send you back to the drawing board to come back with a Strandberg-esque bolt on joint.


----------



## cwhitey2

Randy said:


> Design is grossly inefficient and near impossible to do cleanly, reliably in a mass production setting. It's a great layout for the player, but if you brought that to WMI they'd either price you at $5000 for still an East Asian guitar (and still not flawless) or they'd send you back to the drawing board to come back with a Strandberg-esque bolt on joint.


100% true Randy.

I just feel like after what happened they shouldn't that 'little' shit happen, thats all. Just my


----------



## Randy

cwhitey2 said:


> 100% true Randy.
> 
> I just feel like after what happened they shouldn't that 'little' shit happen, thats all. Just my




Copying/pasting what I said in another thread:

For the record, I never blamed Frank uniquely for the QC issues on the first run. 

One item that jumps right out is something like the wenge neck directly into a solid finished body. 

As I said earlier in this thread, guitar design that replicates the efficiency of furniture building finds elegant solutions for hiding the seams of the building process. 

You've got a body with a dozen layers of sealer, primer, paint, clear and polish butted right up against a neck that takes nothing but oil. Any other design, there'd be a transition there to break it up visually or the neck would be something that could be finished like the body but instead the design requires what it requires and you get tape lines.

I said from the beginning, the thing they were contending with the most was the crazy demands of the SSO economy (volume and QC) with such a complicated design and that seems to be an issue not limited to Frank. The rest of the issues with him not withstanding.


----------



## Randy

Also, yes, going to market with flaws might be damning to US but they're going to leave NAMM with another 50 preorders, mostly from people that actually held them in their hands.


----------



## Demiurge

Randy said:


> Design is grossly inefficient and near impossible to do cleanly, reliably in a mass production setting.



Undoubtedly, and obviously something that should have been worked-out before taking people's money. 

It's kind of funny, because there was that poster several pages back who was upset that Tosin wasn't more involved in the building process. Ironically, it seems like the design needed even _more_ time with a builder to refine it and optimize it for production. Maybe there needed to be someone capable of saying "no" in the process. Maybe Ibanez was.


----------



## Randy

For the record, I'm not whitewashing the other flaws in the pics. THOSE just look like rushing or like Grover (or whoever did these) had an apprentice/intern doing them. I just pointed out the joint because that seemed to be an issue no matter whos building them.


----------



## jephjacques

cwhitey2 said:


> They are so lazy they couldn't properly remove plastic from the pups is face palm wearthy.



as someone who has spent 15 years frantically setting up booths at comic conventions I can 100% imagine how that would happen.

also it's friggin plastic? who cares??????


----------



## jephjacques

As for the neck/body transition, yeah that's a SUPER complex joint. And the body finish ending at the glue line only exacerbates the problem. I'm honestly suprised they're going with a set-neck design, I think there's a reason most extended single-cut designs like this are neck-through.

I don't know how exactly ESP handles it but I know on Jacksons they tape off the color BEFORE the clearcoat, so the clear actually extends about 1/8" further up the neck than the color. Makes for a very tidy transition.


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> I don't know how exactly ESP handles it but I know on Jacksons they tape off the color BEFORE the clearcoat, so the clear actually extends about 1/8" further up the neck than the color. Makes for a very tidy transition.


KxK does it this way as well, and it's quite jarring when you first see it. No doubt people would complain about that too.


----------



## Synesthesia

Some of that seems a little nitpicky (not all). Obviously everyone has to decide for themselves if something like that is a deal breaker or not but it seems really weird to take detailed closeups of nitpicky (most of them imo) problems at a tradeshow. For the launch of the product no less. Some of these issues are probably present on several of the builders presenting there if you put them all under the microscope and look for them.
Again, everyones expectations are different but Ive never understood the perspective some people have that literally every single aspect of a guitar must be flawless. Just my opinion though...


----------



## Kaura

Well, shit. I've been monitoring this thread for a week now. I was on Tosin's side from the beginning especially with the evidence he showed but come on. Seriously, as minor as it might be to some of you guys, but if you can't even properly remove the plastic wrap from the pickups then that shows these guitars are definitely not made with the care that $5K (I assume that was the asking price from some of the posts in this thread) guitars usually are made with.


----------



## Synesthesia

Kaura said:


> Well, shit. I've been monitoring this thread for a week now. I was on Tosin's side from the beginning especially with the evidence he showed but come on. Seriously, as minor as it might be to some of you guys, but if you can't even properly remove the plastic wrap from the pickups then that shows these guitars are definitely not made with the care that $5K (I assume that was the asking price from some of the posts in this thread) guitars usually are made with.


Most of them seem minor to me but I forgot to add the caveat that the plastic wrap on the pickup is just ridiculous... How much time/effort does it take to remove that... Very rushed for that to happen


----------



## Hollowway

I’ve never been to NAMM, so I don’t know what the “expectation” is for display guitars, but I have been to other trade conventions. If you go to something like Tech Crunch Disrupt, or a home builders trade show, that stuff is way worse. The displays are what they are working on right at that moment, and what they’re hoping to release. It’s not stuff that has been perfected. Even the original iPhone debuted without the actual software, and they all crossed their fingers the demo would work, and then spent the next 6 months making it work the way people expected. Having seen a number of builders get killed for imperfect stuff at NAMM, I’m going to guess that a lot of this is rushed just to be able to display stuff that has just been developed and that they want to sell. The boutique stuff is obviously perfect, but the normal brands, maybe not so much. Even Arnold found a bunch of Prestige builds that had fretwork problems. I bought two guitars from NAMM in the last few years, and both had a number of issues, and in both cases the issues were fixed in the final production versions. So maybe that’s the issue here? I gotta imagine Tosin didn’t want to wait another year to display, so he scrambled, and things got rushed. 
For NAMM regulars, is perfection the norm, or is it more of the tech trade show vapor ware and somewhat functional demos?


----------



## Ziricote

Vik haters are LOUD. The silent majority is with Vik LOL. His works is good. i wish I could try these guitars


----------



## narad

Ziricote said:


> Vik haters are LOUD. The silent majority is with Vik LOL. His works is good. i wish I could try these guitars



Silent majority liked all the anti-homosexuality commentary? Weird claim.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, not to pile on, but Vik as a couple of strikes going against him. Even if you are rabidly opposed to gay people, the whole not-delivering-orders-and-taking-people's-money thing maaaaay give you pause. Best as I can tell, if you fall into the Venn diagram where "I like my luthiers to be vocally homophobic" and "I'm ok to lose my money" overlap, then Vik's your man.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ziricote has said some painfully stupid things before, but that takes the cake.


----------



## Ziricote

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, not to pile on, but Vik as a couple of strikes going against him. Even if you are rabidly opposed to gay people, the whole not-delivering-orders-and-taking-people's-money thing maaaaay give you pause. Best as I can tell, if you fall into the Venn diagram where "I like my luthiers to be vocally homophobic" and "I'm ok to lose my money" overlap, then Vik's your man.



I agree its not cool at all for sure. Just saying alot people seem to buy his stuff and sustain business for him for years now. Also I thought vik appologized and said it was a joke taken out of context? but maybe im wrong? I missed the whole thing anyways. You have good points about delivery time from threads i read here. I could never wait for customs. Im impatient


----------



## Hollowway

KnightBrolaire said:


> ziricote has said some painfully stupid things before, but that takes the cake.



Well, he may be right, but just because the majority of people don't like gay people doesn't mean they're going to buy nice guitars.  Something tells me the average libtard hating redneck isn't going to be looking for a sexy and expensive 8 string.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, not to pile on, but Vik as a couple of strikes going against him. Even if you are rabidly opposed to gay people, the whole not-delivering-orders-and-taking-people's-money thing maaaaay give you pause. Best as I can tell, if you fall into the Venn diagram where "I like my luthiers to be vocally homophobic" and "I'm ok to lose my money" overlap, then Vik's your man.



Yea, that's a good way to put it. I bring up the homosexual comments because that's what the majority knows, from that blow-up on Facebook. But the minority knows he's run off with tens of thousands of dollars from group buy money from our community, and also never delivered some completed guitars that were paid in full. A further minority has bought Viks and know that there's tons of craftsmanship issues with them, especially regarding gloss finishes and pickup potting.



Ziricote said:


> You have good points about delivery time from threads i read here. I could never wait for customs. Im impatient



We're not talking delivery times. We're talking _delivery_.


----------



## Hollowway

Ziricote said:


> I agree its not cool at all for sure. Just saying alot people seem to buy his stuff and sustain business for him for years now. Also I thought vik appologized and said it was a joke taken out of context? but maybe im wrong? I missed the whole thing anyways. You have good points about delivery time from threads i read here. I could never wait for customs. Im impatient



Oh, I get you. You mean that people are buying his guitars despite his views. That's probably true. Though, like we're saying, if you were going to have someone help your business, why bother with that baggage?


----------



## USMarine75

Ziricote said:


> Vik haters are LOUD. The silent majority is with Vik LOL. His works is good. i wish I could try these guitars





narad said:


> Silent majority liked all the anti-homosexuality commentary? Weird claim.





Hollowway said:


> Oh, I get you. You mean that people are buying his guitars despite his views. That's probably true. Though, like we're saying, if you were going to have someone help your business, why bother with that baggage?



@pondman can call me a beta cuck all he wants as long as that EVH Cobweb shows up at my doorstep. I checked today and still nothing.


----------



## StevenC

Ziricote said:


> I agree its not cool at all for sure. Just saying alot people seem to buy his stuff and sustain business for him for years now. Also I thought vik appologized and said it was a joke taken out of context? but maybe im wrong? I missed the whole thing anyways. You have good points about delivery time from threads i read here. I could never wait for customs. Im impatient


There's that one guy who got banned from here that Vik still delivers to on the regular.

Also, you're very wrong. We had a large thread here and Vik did a lot of doubling down. Because he's an asshole.


----------



## KnightBrolaire




----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

dude look
space tele


----------



## iamaom

I hope there's a headless option, I don't think I can ever go back to headstocks, especially with 8 strings.


----------



## Khoi

Does anyone know what the scale length for multiscales are?


----------



## glassmoon0fo

> Khoi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what the scale length for multiscales are?
Click to expand...


I think his are currently 25.5 to 27.2 on the bass end, though that could be old info.


----------



## Veldar

Let me know if this is too much of a derail (this thread is all over the shop ) but it seems like ordering a custom guitar from anyone that isn't a big brand name is super flakey and everyone puts out flawed guitars no matter the price.

I feel like us bassist have had great custom luthriers since the 70s fusion era, brands like fodera, Alembic, Ken Smith etc are expensive but give you great basses that are well worth the extra dosh.

EDIT: Why are newer guitar brands so bad at that? And are there any equivlants to the Ken Smiths and Sadoksys for you lot?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Veldar said:


> Let me know if this is too much of a derail (this thread is all over the shop ) but it seems like ordering a custom guitar from anyone that isn't a big brand name is super flakey and everyone puts out flawed guitars no matter the price.
> 
> I feel like us bassist have had great custom luthriers since the 70s fusion era, brands like fodera, Alembic, Ken Smith etc are expensive but give you great basses that are well worth the extra dosh.
> 
> Why are guitar brands so bad at that?



You should modify that to _new_ _and_ _untested_ brands. Even if they've been building for years, it takes time to get a completely new and unique design going.


----------



## cardinal

Veldar said:


> Let me know if this is too much of a derail (this thread is all over the shop ) but it seems like ordering a custom guitar from anyone that isn't a big brand name is super flakey and everyone puts out flawed guitars no matter the price.
> 
> I feel like us bassist have had great custom luthriers since the 70s fusion era, brands like fodera, Alembic, Ken Smith etc are expensive but give you great basses that are well worth the extra dosh.
> 
> EDIT: Why are newer guitar brands so bad at that? And are there any equivlants to the Ken Smiths and Sadoksys for you lot?



Well, Fodera, Alembic, Ken Smith, etc. are the ones that survived because they were run well. Who knows how many others flamed out and couldn't actually get going. And before the internet, their damage would have been much more limited because who would have heard of them. Compared to guitarists, bassist in general have been more "adventurous" with what they will play, so it's not too surprising that there are some long-standing boutique bass makers out there but perhaps not as many for guitars.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Well, Fodera, Alembic, Ken Smith, etc. are the ones that survived because they were run well. Who knows how many others flamed out and couldn't actually get going. And before the internet, their damage would have been much more limited because who would have heard of them. Compared to guitarists, bassist in general have been more "adventurous" with what they will play, so it's not too surprising that there are some long-standing boutique bass makers out there but perhaps not as many for guitars.



I think the spread, guitar vs. bass is about even. Besides the fact that Alembic and Sadowsky both make, and have made for decades, various guitars, you have Suhr, Anderson, Tyler, and Conklin just off the top of my head.


----------



## Emperoff

Late to the party.

How much are these supposed to cost? I was so embarrassed looking at those pics. I would be OK with those flaws in a 200$ guitar but seeing everyone so calm about them leaves me ice cold.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Emperoff said:


> Late to the party.
> 
> How much are these supposed to cost? I was so embarrassed looking at those pics. I would be OK with those flaws in a 200$ guitar but seeing everyone so calm about them leaves me ice cold.


they said in the premier guitar vid around 2-3k usd right now.


----------



## Randy

Easy to get hyperfocused on this market and these brands. Not saying there's no room to complain but 3/4 of the boutique guitar market are people building reliced teles and strats for $2500+. We ERG people are spoiled by the amount of features we expect in a guitar at that price point


----------



## Emperoff

KnightBrolaire said:


> they said in the premier guitar vid around 2-3k usd right now.


----------



## jephjacques

Randy said:


> Easy to get hyperfocused on this market and these brands. Not saying there's no room to complain but 3/4 of the boutique guitar market are people building reliced teles and strats for $2500+. We ERG people are spoiled by the amount of features we expect in a guitar at that price point



yeah you can go to Destroy All Guitars and choose from one of 324 different $4000 reliced telecasters made from unlabeled Warmoth parts, lol


----------



## Randy

jephjacques said:


> yeah you can go to Destroy All Guitars and choose from one of 324 different $4000 reliced telecasters made from unlabeled Warmoth parts, lol



Yeah, 'Danocaster' recently came across my Reverb feed. 1 hum relic'd Telecaster (so, flat top body, no arm or tummy cut, 21 frets, no tilt headstock) for $2800 and it sold before the end of the day. Went to their website and it says their queue is so long they're not taking anymore orders! 

And yeah, made further dubious by the likelihood of them being ghost built by a big factory. I know a guy that works at USCG, who make replacement parts on par with Warmoth but you hear a lot less from them because they spend most of their time doing private label building for those 'boutique' vintage companies.

EDIT: For real


----------



## narad

Danocaster used to just post up completed builds on TGP every few weeks and most would sell *in minutes*. I know he was taking custom orders at some point and it looked like things had slowed down, somebody must be hyping him again lol


----------



## Randy

But lemme tell you, .5mm of chipout next to a side-dot on an exotic wood, proprietary shaped, fanned fret ERG! I wouldn't pay $200 for that thing.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I've always looked at it like this: its wires and wood. If I'm shelling out major cash, its because I either plan to have a collectors item that better be perfect out of the box, or I plan to play the absolute shit out of it and I don't care about nicks I would have put in it in a month anyway. If the functionality is on point, especially the fretwork, I'm keepin it because bedroom shred train with no breaks in this bish.

Edit: what i mean is, i plan to play the shit outta an Abasi, send me one with plastic behind the pickups and a lil glue in the joint, and watch me be completely unbothered. Thas just me though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> But lemme tell you, .5mm of chipout next to a side-dot on an exotic wood, proprietary shaped, fanned fret ERG! I wouldn't pay $200 for that thing.



So because some people buy relic'd Teles, it's cool to have flaws? 

I don't buy that. 

If it's a value proposition, obviously boutique builders aren't the way to go. 

I completely understand that these are _crafted_, not extruded from a guitar-machine. And I think small flaws are entirely forgivable, especially on these exhibition type builds.

But these flaws are just silly. Like the kind of stuff you see in sophomore builds from decent home-builders. It's not like stuff like minor chipout and uneven paint can't be fixed. 

As for relic guitars, I always thought it was understood that you're paying for the relic job, not the guitar itself. So what if the body and neck are CNC'd by someone else, that's not why people buy these, usually.


----------



## spudmunkey

Emperoff said:


> Late to the party.
> 
> How much are these supposed to cost? I was so embarrassed looking at those pics. I would be OK with those flaws in a 200$ guitar but seeing everyone so calm about them leaves me ice cold.



For what it's worth, not all of those issues were on the same guitar. They seemed spread out, but that's only what I could gather from those specific photos posted.


----------



## JoeyBTL

Randy said:


> But lemme tell you, .5mm of chipout next to a side-dot on an exotic wood, proprietary shaped, fanned fret ERG! I wouldn't pay $200 for that thing.



Funny part is with the Danocasters you're paying FOR it to be all bitched up.


----------



## mnemonic

Does this mean in 20 or 30 years when we’re all retired, people are gonna be making five-figure relic’d strandberg copies and ergo-shapes?


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> So because some people buy relic'd Teles, it's cool to have flaws?
> 
> I don't buy that.
> 
> If it's a value proposition, obviously boutique builders aren't the way to go.
> 
> I completely understand that these are _crafted_, not extruded from a guitar-machine. And I think small flaws are entirely forgivable, especially on these exhibition type builds.
> 
> But these flaws are just silly. Like the kind of stuff you see in sophomore builds from decent home-builders. It's not like stuff like minor chipout and uneven paint can't be fixed.



Well, to be clear, I'm referring the hyperbole over the whole thing. Most people that know me from posting on here for the last 13 years know that I usually qualify my statements and they're usually evenly tempered.

That particular post is in reference to the fact there's a slew of posts as if the guitars consist of nothing BUT flaws, which is easy when the only close-up/high-res pictures you get are close-ups of chips/scratches/glue lines, LARGE and in rapid succession. We've been down this rabbit hole on SSO, like, an infinite number of times relating to literally every different price-point of guitar.

At a certain point, it's clear there's a class of poster on here who's interest in 'guitars on internet' only goes as deep as who can find and document the most obscure item and elevate it as high as possible. Sometimes the forums can have a 'dog with a ball' mentality where you flash one thing infront of them and all they see is that one thing. In the interest of moderation (not the official term... meaning, you know, being moderate), it's worth offering an alternative perspective even if it's not a popular one. 

To be clear, the goal of a company should be to deliver their vision (design, build quality, price) as flawlessly as possible and anything short of that should be taken as a lesson in what to do thereafter. I think I'm pretty significantly on record about that already after all the posts directed at Frank after last NAMM and the Japanese shipment. That's far an away from the "I wouldn't pay $200 for that", "they should've waited another year before they showed" type comments that are pretty much tantamount to trolling since they're from people who otherwise show no interest in the brand anyway. 

I have yet to hear someone say "Wow, that guitar does nothing for me designwisebut it's SO flawless that I want one" about anything, ever.


----------



## cardinal

I don't get bent out of shape over excess glue in a joint for a minor finish flaw, etc. Otherwise, I'd never be able to play my Gibsons (har har). 

But for these to have some flaws, after the last attempt went down in flames, is not a good look nor does it instill confidence of what customers are going to get if they place an order. I think of all the things mentioned, what worries me the most was hearing that the fret work wasn't very good. Granted, that's something that an afternoon can sort out with a fret level (assuming the problem isn't a hump in the neck), but: it's something that could have been sorted in an afternoon. I guess everything was just a scramble and maybe they just flat ran out of time.

I hope and really think they will get it sorted, but stuff like this won't help attract custom orders. Until they can deliver off-the-shelf guitars that at least play correctly, that's really going to be a leap of faith. NAMM would have been the best opportunity to do that because in theory there were disinteretsed observers there to play the things.


----------



## Randy

cardinal said:


> I don't get bent out of shape over excess glue in a joint for a minor finish flaw, etc. Otherwise, I'd never be able to play my Gibsons (har har).
> 
> But for these to have some flaws, after the last attempt went down in flames, is not a good look nor does it instill confidence of what customers are going to get if they place an order. I think of all the things mentioned, what worries me the most was hearing that the fret work wasn't very good. Granted, that's something that an afternoon can sort out with a fret level (assuming the problem isn't a hump in the neck), but: it's something that could have been sorted in an afternoon. I guess everything was just a scramble and maybe they just flat ran out of time.
> 
> I hope and really think they will get it sorted, but stuff like this won't help attract custom orders. Until they can deliver off-the-shelf guitars that at least play correctly, that's really going to be a leap of faith. NAMM would have been the best opportunity to do that because in theory there were disinteretsed observers there to play the things.



Agreed in full. 

Also, I might have misread but I thought the fret issue was 'fret sprout' (as in the frets sticking out the sides, usually the result of the wood of the fretboard shrinking). I'll have to re-read that.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

oneblackened was talking about the abasis over on fb and said that they were meh, when he handled them. I've haven't really heard any glowing reviews from people who've played them so far.


----------



## cardinal

Randy said:


> Agreed in full.
> 
> Also, I might have misread but I thought the fret issue was 'fret sprout' (as in the frets sticking out the sides, usually the result of the wood of the fretboard shrinking). I'll have to re-read that.



Oops! You're right, I think it does just say fret sprout, not any time of playability problem.

I have to say fret sprout is not something that even was on my radar of a grievance until this forum. That would be a complete non-issue for me.


----------



## xzacx

cardinal said:


> I think of all the things mentioned, what worries me the most was hearing that the fret work wasn't very good.



What's worrying me the most is the silence so far on clarifying Vik's involvement. We still don't have any answers for that, right?


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

cardinal said:


> Oops! You're right, I think it does just say fret sprout, not any time of playability problem.
> 
> I have to say fret sprout is not something that even was on my radar of a grievance until this forum. That would be a complete non-issue for me.



lolwat. I can assure you that having frets sticking over the edge of your board slicing your fingers open while you play should be a major issue for even an east Asian build.

only thing I want making me bleed is practice and strings.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> lolwat. I can assure you that having frets sticking over the edge of your board slicing your fingers open while you play should be a major issue for even an east Asian build.
> 
> only thing I want making me bleed is practice and strings.



Yeah, but that's a really easy, relatively quick fix, and an issue that's not necessarily the fault of builder. Wood shrinks. 

Folks need to stop thinking that guitars can't be adjusted, and that what you get is what you're stuck with forever.


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, but that's a really easy, relatively quick fix, and an issue that's not necessarily the fault of builder. Wood shrinks.
> 
> Folks need to stop thinking that guitars can't be adjusted, and that what you get is what you're stuck with forever.



Wood should not shrink after a guitar is assembled. I'm not a luthier, but when I make a table or a chair or a workbench, I make triple sure my wood is fully dried before assembly because wet wood changes dimensions. on something with tolerances as tight as a guitar, it's unfathomable to me that anyone would put out a product with that flaw. it no longer meets spec, and if they built it with a wet fretboard, imagine how many other pieces are now shrinking. what happens when your body cracks because it's shrinking and the bridge isn't? or when one piece of the neck shrinks more than the other?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Wood should not shrink after a guitar is assembled. I'm not a luthier, but when I make a table or a chair or a workbench, I make triple sure my wood is fully dried before assembly because wet wood changes dimensions. on something with tolerances as tight as a guitar, it's unfathomable to me that anyone would put out a product with that flaw. it no longer meets spec, and if they built it with a wet fretboard, imagine how many other pieces are now shrinking. what happens when your body cracks because it's shrinking and the bridge isn't? or when one piece of the neck shrinks more than the other?



It's a common occurrence on guitars across the price spectrum. I've worked on hundreds of them where that is the case.

I assume the wood furniture you build gets a finish. Fretboards (outside of most maple, and some other niches) do not. They're exposed to the air, and the humidity and lack thereof within.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

If a builders/companies wood is constantly shrinking on their guitars so the frets sprout out that's a problem with how they are drying their woods. Hardwoods are susceptible to cracking and shrinking with temperature changes but if it's happening on lots of guitars all over he works than its the wood. Happened on nearly every sabre guitar cause the fretboards weren't dried correctly.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> If a builders/companies wood is constantly shrinking on their guitars so the frets sprout out that's a problem with how they are drying their woods. Hardwoods are susceptible to cracking and shrinking with temperature changes but if it's happening on lots of guitars than that's the wood.



There are maybe a dozen Abasi guitars in existence, I wouldn't say "lots" applies here.


----------



## Randy

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Wood should not shrink after a guitar is assembled. I'm not a luthier, but when I make a table or a chair or a workbench, I make triple sure my wood is fully dried before assembly because wet wood changes dimensions. on something with tolerances as tight as a guitar, it's unfathomable to me that anyone would put out a product with that flaw. it no longer meets spec, and if they built it with a wet fretboard, imagine how many other pieces are now shrinking. what happens when your body cracks because it's shrinking and the bridge isn't? or when one piece of the neck shrinks more than the other?



Have you, um, played a lot of guitars? They're constantly adjusting to humidity, plus the expansion rate of different pieces of wood (not just different species but even from piece to piece) are never exact, that's the reason why theyre made to be adjustable. Fret sprout happens because the board is doing the same thing the rest of the guitar does, except it has no finish on it (so it's subject to the elements more), it's the thinnest piece of wood on the guitar and it's got metal rails spanning it that don't shrink or expand at all, which makes it more obvious.

For reference, I have a guitar I built 10 years ago (!) that I've sanded fret sprout on four times and it needs a fifth. I've bought guitars that needed it from time to time as well.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

MaxOfMetal said:


> There are maybe a dozen Abasi guitars in existence, I wouldn't say "lots" applies here.



I was just saying in general when it's a common problem on instruments shipped worldwide, wasn't targeting abasi. A few companies have far too many reports that they can't blame temperature changes for it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> I was just saying in general when it's a common problem on instruments shipped worldwide, wasn't targeting abasi. A few companies have far too many reports that they can't blame temperature changes for it.



Well, the climate (not strictly temperature) changes are the cause, but there are a lot of factors. 

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the biggest issues is the location of manufacture vs. where they wind up being sold.


----------



## jephjacques

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Wood should not shrink after a guitar is assembled. I'm not a luthier, but when I make a table or a chair or a workbench, I make triple sure my wood is fully dried before assembly because wet wood changes dimensions. on something with tolerances as tight as a guitar, it's unfathomable to me that anyone would put out a product with that flaw. it no longer meets spec, and if they built it with a wet fretboard, imagine how many other pieces are now shrinking. what happens when your body cracks because it's shrinking and the bridge isn't? or when one piece of the neck shrinks more than the other?



You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to guitars. Wood changes constantly no matter HOW "dry" it is, short of (MAYBE) the baked maple that's all the rage these days. I brought 6 guitars with me from MA to Canada and within 3 months 5 of them had minor fret sprout because of the different climate. They're all high-end guitars from the most reputable builders around.


----------



## jephjacques

jephjacques said:


> You don't know what you're talking about when it comes to guitars. Wood changes constantly no matter HOW "dry" it is, short of (MAYBE) the baked maple that's all the rage these days. I brought 6 guitars with me from MA to Canada and within 3 months 5 of them had minor fret sprout because of the different climate. They're all high-end guitars from the most reputable builders around.



nobody tell iWantedAnAbasi what truss rods are for, he'll lose his fucking mind


----------



## I play music

xzacx said:


> What's worrying me the most is the silence so far on clarifying Vik's involvement. We still don't have any answers for that, right?


Nah, Tosin ignored my question. 


iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Wood should not shrink after a guitar is assembled. I'm not a luthier, but when I make a table or a chair or a workbench, I make triple sure my wood is fully dried before assembly because wet wood changes dimensions. on something with tolerances as tight as a guitar, it's unfathomable to me that anyone would put out a product with that flaw. it no longer meets spec, and if they built it with a wet fretboard, imagine how many other pieces are now shrinking. what happens when your body cracks because it's shrinking and the bridge isn't? or when one piece of the neck shrinks more than the other?


And now you even know about wood because you're a carpenter. The coincidence is becoming a bit much. I can't decide if you're Frank Falbo or a troll


----------



## Randy




----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

I play music said:


> Nah, Tosin ignored my question.
> 
> And now you even know about wood because you're a carpenter. The coincidence is becoming a bit much. I can't decide if you're Frank Falbo or a troll



I'm not a carpenter. I'm a hobbyist. I've only built a table, some chairs, and a workbench.


----------



## Synesthesia

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> *Wood should not shrink after a guitar is assembled*.


Wow that's way wrong. Wood moves for a long time after completion. Go pick up old acoustics and tell me the wood hasn't shrunk. It's very common to have slight fluctuations over time. The wood moves, the frets dont and boom... fret sprout. Furniture does this too, they're just dealing with larger tolerances so it's not noticed as much. It's the reason people leave gaps around the glass in those popular "river" tables everyone keeps making. Because the wood will move and the glass wont.
Usually if you knock down the fret sprout once or twice over the years it wont come back as the wood has reached a mostly stable state. Even still high humidity and temp changes can change that.
You can somewhat get away from it with torrified wood but even that would require a more hermetic finish to keep humidity from affecting it down the road.


----------



## spudmunkey

Synesthesia said:


> Wow that's way wrong. Wood moves for a long time after completion. Go pick up old acoustics and tell me the wood hasn't shrunk. It's very common to have slight fluctuations over time. The wood moves, the frets dont and boom... fret sprout. Furniture does this too, they're just dealing with larger tolerances so it's not noticed as much. It's the reason people leave gaps around the glass in those popular "river" tables everyone keeps making. Because the wood will move and the glass wont.
> Usually if you knock down the fret sprout once or twice over the years it wont come back as the wood has reached a mostly stable state. Even still high humidity and temp changes can change that.
> You can somewhat get away from it with torrified wood but even that would require a more hermetic finish to keep humidity from affecting it down the road.



Well said. You can make something out of the most thoroughly kiln-dried woods you want...the moment the environment changes, if there's any humidity in the air, the wood can expand. And then it will shrink again.

I made a pen holder out of some oak that was in my grandpa's barn. It was at least 70 years old, and kept under a roof it's entire life. The moment it spend one dry winter inside my home with a furnace, the wood shrank. And because I had a piece of metal screwed to it with two screws, the wood pulled on the screws, and split right down the middle. There's a reason breadboard ends exist. There's a reason you don't screw table base directly to a solid wood top, and use things like this:


----------



## iWantedAnAbasi

Man I love this forum. I might have to become a regular. Only place in the world where buffing compound left in a joint is a *MAJOR QA ISSUE OMG WHAT A TERRIBLE BUILDER EVEN A TODDLER WOULD DO BETTER*, but fret edges proud of the board on a guitar that was *recently built at a factory 20 minutes away from where its being demoed *are _NBD this happens all the time go grab any guitar and it's like that I've literally never seen flush fret edges before_.


----------



## spudmunkey

Number if guitars I've had with buffing compound on them over 30 years of playing guitar: 0

Number of guitars I've owned with fret edges that protrude slightly at different times of the year: all except for the ones with plastic binding, and of those 3, one cracked at the frets.


----------



## Synesthesia

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Man I love this forum. I might have to become a regular. Only place in the world where buffing compound left in a joint is a *MAJOR QA ISSUE OMG WHAT A TERRIBLE BUILDER EVEN A TODDLER WOULD DO BETTER*, but fret edges proud of the board on a guitar that was *recently built at a factory 20 minutes away from where its being demoed *are _NBD this happens all the time go grab any guitar and it's like that I've literally never seen flush fret edges before_.


Everybody has their own lines of what is acceptable and what isnt. 
The difference here is that buffing compound doesnt spring onto the guitar as it ages...
I dont know the specifics of the buffing compound issue (only know that it is referenced a lot). But buffing compound should always be removed. Hilarious that an obvious oversight is muddied by comments like "wood never moves!"


----------



## Synesthesia

spudmunkey said:


> Well said. You can make something out of the most thoroughly kiln-dried woods you want...the moment the environment changes, if there's any humidity in the air, the wood can expand. And then it will shrink again.
> 
> I made a pen holder out of some oak that was in my grandpa's barn. It was at least 70 years old, and kept under a roof it's entire life. The moment it spend one dry winter inside my home with a furnace, the wood shrank. And because I had a piece of metal screwed to it with two screws, the wood pulled on the screws, and split right down the middle. There's a reason breadboard ends exist. There's a reason you don't screw table base directly to a solid wood top, and use things like this:


I always appreciate seeing forethought in designs like that. Furniture is a great example of knowing the dynamic nature of natural materials and working around them.


----------



## j3ps3

Absolutely no reason, other than the guitars were rushed (Understandable, because of NAMM, but come on. This is just lazy. It's not like they brought 200 guitars with them. Something like this will cost you more than what you saved on time by not doing it), for the fret ends to look like that. Just use a fret tang nipper and be done with it.





I think that at this price range there really is no excuse for them to look like this. Not a major issue but wouldn't have been a major fix either.


----------



## Synesthesia

j3ps3 said:


> Absolutely no reason, other than the guitars were rushed (Understandable, because of NAMM, but come on. This is just lazy. It's not like they brought 200 guitars with them. Something like this will cost you more than what you saved on time by not doing it), for the fret ends to look like that. Just use a fret tang nipper and be done with it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think that at this price range there really is no excuse for them to look like this. Not a major issue but wouldn't have been a major fix either.


Fret nippers are usually used in blind slots or with binding. Typically you wouldn't nip a fret if the slot runs through because you would have more of a void to fill. And it doesnt mean that fret sprout wont happen as the actual fret still extends to the edge of the board. Fretboard shrink could even cause it to happen quicker as there is less tang holding in the board.
You could do something like this to avoid sprout:




If you make the imaginary fret line uniform and inside the fretboard edge. But I'm not sure how well that would be received by your typical/traditional player. For me, it would depend on how well it is done.
Your general sentiment though, I agree with. These examples were really rushed for namm


----------



## Synesthesia

Synesthesia said:


> Fret nippers are usually used in blind slots or with binding. Typically you wouldn't nip a fret if the slot runs through because you would have more of a void to fill. And it doesnt mean that fret sprout wont happen as the actual fret still extends to the edge of the board. Fretboard shrink could even cause it to happen quicker as there is less tang holding in the board.
> You could do something like this to avoid sprout:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you make the imaginary fret line uniform and inside the fretboard edge. But I'm not sure how well that would be received by your typical/traditional player. For me, it would depend on how well it is done.
> Your general sentiment though, I agree with. These examples were really rushed for namm


Actually this pic probably shows the frets better




If it's done well I wouldn't mind. But it seems like some people might not like the look of it.


----------



## jephjacques

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> I'm not a carpenter. I'm a hobbyist. I've only built a table, some chairs, and a workbench.



lol


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the other easy solutions to fret sprout besides blind slotting is 1. use synthetic materials for fretboards that shrink/crack much less (ie richlite or other composites) 2. apply a finish to the fingerboard (works decently well ime) 3. gibson style binding which covers the fret ends


----------



## jephjacques

KnightBrolaire said:


> the other easy solutions to fret sprout besides blind slotting is 1. use synthetic materials for fretboards that shrink/crack much less (ie richlite or other composites) 2. apply a finish to the fingerboard (works decently well ime) 3. gibson style binding which covers the fret ends



yeah but if you finish the edges of the board the frets will just push through and bubble/crack the finish. My Majesty has a couple bubbles where this is happening- it's an annoying cosmetic thing but it's Just A Thing That Happens when you live in nova fuckin scotia


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jephjacques said:


> yeah but if you finish the edges of the board the frets will just push through and bubble/crack the finish. My Majesty has a couple bubbles where this is happening- it's an annoying cosmetic thing but it's Just A Thing That Happens when you live in nova fuckin scotia


It probably depends on how exactly they do it, but it at least mitigates fret sprout to an extent.
My overload had superglue/wood dust in the fret slots (makes the fret slots blend in with the rest of the wood better imo), and then I think he lacquered over the edge of the fretboard. It held up surprisingly well for years until it got super dry out and the board started shrinking a bit. My knightro that didn't have blind slots got bad fret sprout since it was coming from florida to up here (big change in temp/humidity), plus it was just oil finished all around and oil sucks for mitigating expansion/contraction. 
We deal with all kinds of stupid weather here in MN from 100F to -30F, plus surprisingly high humidity in the summer.


----------



## j3ps3

Synesthesia said:


> Fret nippers are usually used in blind slots or with binding. Typically you wouldn't nip a fret if the slot runs through because you would have more of a void to fill. And it doesnt mean that fret sprout wont happen as the actual fret still extends to the edge of the board. Fretboard shrink could even cause it to happen quicker as there is less tang holding in the board.
> You could do something like this to avoid sprout:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you make the imaginary fret line uniform and inside the fretboard edge. But I'm not sure how well that would be received by your typical/traditional player. For me, it would depend on how well it is done.
> Your general sentiment though, I agree with. These examples were really rushed for namm



If done by hand, I get that you wanna save some time and just cut the slot through the whole fretboard (but personally I would've paid more attention to detail as this was the first time they presented these guitars to public. First impression is important and I wouldn't want the kind of negative attention these seem to get now).

If done by machine you could just cut them like this:





I've always cut the tang and filled the slot with superglue and sawdust from the fretboard. Looks a lot cleaner.


----------



## jemfloral

Solution: go fretless?


----------



## Synesthesia

j3ps3 said:


> If done by hand, I get that you wanna save some time and just cut the slot through the whole fretboard (but personally I would've paid more attention to detail as this was the first time they presented these guitars to public. First impression is important and I wouldn't want the kind of negative attention these seem to get now).
> 
> If done by machine you could just cut them like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've always cut the tang and filled the slot with superglue and sawdust from the fretboard. Looks a lot cleaner.


Yeah. Those are blind slots like I said. The guitars posted earlier dont have blind slots. But even if they did, the fret crown itself still extends to the edge. Which means fret sprout can still happen on blind slots. In fact, most guitars I've made over the years that have had any fret sprout, usually occurs with the edge of the crown itself. Not the actual tang sticking out like in the earlier pictures. The unfortunate thing is this could be remedied in minutes by someone at the show and apparently it wasnt.
Still not a dealbreaker for me personally. The worst thing I saw was all the prefinished chipout that happened around the cavity cover. That should have been fixed before finish. It's even a painted guitar so it would have been easy to do.


----------



## ixlramp

Meh, you can't come to any judgement based on very minor flaws in a couple of new-manufacturer, new-run guitars possibly rushed for NAMM. See what Abasi concepts say about the minor flaws and see what happens in future.


----------



## pondman

iWantedAnAbasi said:


> Wood should not shrink after a guitar is assembled. I'm not a luthier, but when I make a table or a chair or a workbench, I make triple sure my wood is fully dried before assembly because wet wood changes dimensions.


----------



## Emperoff

Randy said:


> View attachment 66559



Post of the year


----------



## frank falbo

Emperoff said:


> Post of the year


Even *I *agree with that one.


----------



## axxessdenied

Considering what Ola is doing with Solar those Abasi guitars shouldn't be in that condition. Were the show models done by Grover Jackson? The Chinese Strandbergs alone had fit and finish that is at a much higher standard than that and at a much more aggressive price. I'll be buying a Solar 100% and am actually highly considering one of those indonesian made strandbergs since they absolutely slayed and were made so well. Abasi Concepts right now just seems like an expensive agile with Darren's headstock on it.

Here's a headstock right from Rondo Music.


----------



## TheFashel12

I feel like the QC issues pertaining to the paint at the neck joint could be alleviated if Abasi Guitars adopted a Stephens Extended Cutaway-style bolt-on neck.






Something like this might also make WMI production more feasible and cost-efficient.


----------



## sezna

TheFashel12 said:


> I feel like the QC issues pertaining to the paint at the neck joint could be alleviated if Abasi Guitars adopted a Stephens Extended Cutaway-style bolt-on neck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something like this might also make WMI production more feasible and cost-efficient.



I couldn’t find any patents for it. Go for it Tosin!


----------



## cardinal

Or... just have a bit more heel on there? I am of course no where near the player that Tosin is, but it still is hard for me to fathom how that specific heel is vital or that anyone would even notice a design that had more material to ease the construction.


----------



## Davide-NYC

Regarding Stephens Extended Cutaway patents: "Patents and trademarks were granted worldwide in the late eighties and instruments using the Extended Cutaway design have been built since."

Source: seanet

Not sure when the patent expires or even if this is accurate information. Just something I found online that seemed relevant to this latest idea.


----------



## spudmunkey

Design patents are (i think) 15 years. And I could be way off, but I don't think that would count as a utility patent, which I THINK are longer.


----------



## cardinal

Washburn still uses the design (or did very recently) on their Parallax series and still branded it as Stephens Extended Cuttaway. Maybe that was just being curtious because of their relationship with Nuno, but I suspect it may also have been because they had an obligation to do it.

And many people might be surprised by what you can get as a utility patent. The neck joint supposedly offers quite a bit of functionality (access of a neck through but construction benefits of a bolt on, etc.).

Any patent likely would have expired at this point. The N4 was been around since at least the early 90s, so well over 20 years.


----------



## mastapimp

axxessdenied said:


> Considering what Ola is doing with Solar those Abasi guitars shouldn't be in that condition. Were the show models done by Grover Jackson? The Chinese Strandbergs alone had fit and finish that is at a much higher standard than that and at a much more aggressive price. I'll be buying a Solar 100% and am actually highly considering one of those indonesian made strandbergs since they absolutely slayed and were made so well. Abasi Concepts right now just seems like an expensive agile with Darren's headstock on it.
> 
> Here's a headstock right from Rondo Music.



I'm going to reserve judgement until these come out of the prototype phase. It's an odd design with transitions that may not be mastered yet. There's nothing new or fancy from any of the solar stuff I've seen that hasn't been done 1000 times over by those foreign guitar shops you mention, and they probably came through without much headache. If Tosin were making a bolt-on super strat, i'm sure GJ's shop would have a better chance of getting it right on the first try based on the nature of that being a possible "bread and butter" guitar for his line of expertise. I work in engineering and make medical devices...the first batches/prototypes never come out exactly as expected. It takes some tweaking of materials and processes before something is signed off and put into production. These all appear like minor errors and learning curve kind of mistakes that are popping up. If these errors are present on actual guitars for sale after the final build process has been locked down, i'd be concerned, but right now this is a "look what we can do and offer" in form and function more than the final product kind of representation.

Also, those new batch of Merrow imports out of Korea are showing up with all kinds of build issues that appear to be related with the same learning curve problem I mentioned earlier. I'm hoping the next batch will have improved the alignment of the tuners and will have fixed the finish flaking issues at the fretboard/neck transition.


----------



## Jason B

mastapimp said:


> I work in engineering and make medical devices



And I toast excellent toast. So _believe me_ when I say that these tradeshow guitars - Displayed to be handled and judged by the public - simply weren’t up to snuff. 

Brand survival was the sole point of the exhibition. We’re years past proof-of-concept, prototyping, and even a year past the production phase of these guitars. The guys obviously felt that foregoing NAMM in wake of the abject failure and drama would have been too large a concession, considering the emphasis on “moving forward” and all that.


----------



## SACharles

Just dropping the link from NAMM for people to see if they haven't.


----------



## Frostbite

Can we please just talk about Rampart?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

mastapimp said:


> Also, those new batch of Merrow imports out of Korea are showing up with all kinds of build issues that appear to be related with the same learning curve problem I mentioned earlier. I'm hoping the next batch will have improved the alignment of the tuners and will have fixed the finish flaking issues at the fretboard/neck transition.



Yeah pretty sure it has to do with the fretboard being wenge (open grained and splintery) making it slightly more difficult to do the finishing


----------



## Avedas

Stephen Taranto is now an Abasi artist apparently


----------



## sezna

Avedas said:


> Stephen Taranto is now an Abasi artist apparently



Is he the first official artist besides Tosin?


----------



## Avedas

sezna said:


> Is he the first official artist besides Tosin?


I think so


----------



## MFB

...who?


----------



## Demiurge

Someone with a low serial number now, it appears.


----------



## 77zark77

Nice to see and hear though !


----------



## glassmoon0fo

He’s a bit underground but I found him on the Plini track “Away” and have been on board since. Dudes immaculate.


----------



## Jonathan20022

You guys are seriously sleeping on Stephen. He's objectively one of the best up and coming artists I've ever heard. I'm constantly on his instagram trying to transcribe his licks and playing in general.

Judging by the response to his EP on social media hes about to blow up finally.


----------



## jbcrazy

Being at NAMM, Tosin's booth was rocking. Maybe it was because the man himself was there, or that ridiculous sounding rig he has going on... but yeah the guitars seemed pretty well received while I was peaking around. I really... really dug the telecaster one he had at the show which Frank was a part of? I thought they looked cool and sounded great from the variety of players noodling away on them. The telecaster one was SUPER light and really comfy to me. Didn't see anything QC wise that made me gasp or anything.

Literally had no idea all this shit happened with Frank. I assumed this was just Abasi concepts continuing according to plan. Hope things work out for Tosin though. This can't be easy starting something like this. Its not like throwing together Les Paul copies or superstrats I'd imagine.


----------



## Acaciastrain360

axxessdenied said:


> Considering what Ola is doing with Solar those Abasi guitars shouldn't be in that condition. Were the show models done by Grover Jackson? The Chinese Strandbergs alone had fit and finish that is at a much higher standard than that and at a much more aggressive price. I'll be buying a Solar 100% and am actually highly considering one of those indonesian made strandbergs since they absolutely slayed and were made so well. Abasi Concepts right now just seems like an expensive agile with Darren's headstock on it.
> 
> Here's a headstock right from Rondo Music.


This looks better than the Abasi one....


----------



## Acaciastrain360

MFB said:


> ...who?


The Helix Nebula or something...?? I dunno


----------



## ThePIGI King

Avedas said:


> Stephen Taranto is now an Abasi artist apparently



He's an awesome player, but I won't ever be able to listen to anything with that guitar tone all over it. It's so computerized sounding. Some of the clips had some better tones though. Still cool to see the brand grow. I hope to be able to get one of these one day.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

ThePIGI King said:


> He's an awesome player, but I won't ever be able to listen to anything with that guitar tone all over it. It's so computerized sounding. Some of the clips had some better tones though. Still cool to see the brand grow. I hope to be able to get one of these one day.



I'm the same. I thought this was highly edited but then I checked out his raw clips on Instagram... He's just that clean of a player. Insane!


----------



## Avedas

Yeah Stephen is ultra clean. His Instagram clips are amazing.


----------



## Schectersilence

I didn’t want to join in, but I just saw the guitars in Japan. These were the Frank ones, and I guess I feel I have to weigh in on some level.

My thoughts:
The guitars were awful: the wood joints were all over the place, and the pickup routing was terrible. They were up for around 500,000 yen or more. They’d been refinished by the shop (gloss to satin) to remove imperfections. For that kinda money, I could buy 2 PERFECT Waghorns and be happy. These guitars were sold as Abasi guitars, and Tosin had signed them, so they really do reflect the company at this point (if I didn’t know the history, these ARE Abasi Guitars). So they’re, as a company, trying to sell sub-par guitars for a huge price tag. These should be B-stock at best..

Secondly, regarding the NAMM stuff. If the guitars are there, they reflect the company, and they should really be as good as the company wants them to be. I’m going to judge them based on that, and not some hypothetical future guitar that they should really be making now. Otherwise I’m constantly making excuses for why they aren’t perfect. More than that: do I really believe a company would get a customer guitar right if they didn’t get it right for 100s or 1000s of people? I’m not sure myself, but I could easily be wrong.

Thirdly, these are expensive instruments. I don’t see the kind of issues that those guitars have on a Gio. They’re just silly issues that shouldn’t be there, and sort of tell me everything was rushed. Which I guess it was. 

I like the Abasi design a lot. I truly hope Tosin can find a builder who can deliver what’s needed here: consistency and quality. These should be high end guitars, but the profit margin on those type of instruments is non-existent. I guess the company is stuck wanting to offer boutique level quality at production pricing, which I’m yet to see!


----------



## Jason B

The brand just needs to employ a few messageboard counterintelligence posters the way Kiesel does. They don’t even need to be compensated - Just tell them they’ve been deputized as part of the Abasi Guitars Street Team.

Otherwise, the ruse is going to require a few more NAMMs of glowing reviews from people Tosin insisted play the guitars through his personal rig while he’s smiling within biting range.


----------



## Meh

Looks like John Mayer is getting one:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuZ-2IuA4cU/


----------



## gunch

Avedas said:


> Stephen Taranto is now an Abasi artist apparently




neo tokyo 21xx fusion vapor-djent? and I don't hate it? 

sign me the fuck up


----------



## DickyTripleD

Meh said:


> Looks like John Mayer is getting one:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BuZ-2IuA4cU/



You're thinking of Djohn Mayer.


----------



## Meh

DickyTripleD said:


> You're thinking of Djohn Mayer.


My mistake. You are a true Djentleman for correcting me.


----------



## spudmunkey

DickyTripleD said:


> You're thinking of Djohn Mayer.



Djohn Mäjier


----------



## DickyTripleD

spudmunkey said:


> Djohn Mäjier



You win, because I had to pronounce it out loud and had a good laugh about it.



Meh said:


> My mistake. You are a true Djentleman for correcting me.



I feel a little bad for being so forward. Should've said it a little djentler.


----------



## xzacx

Gotta say that might be the first time I've heard someone playing and 8 string and not thought it sounded stupid. Still would be nice if we could clear up that whole Vik involvement thing...


----------



## DickyTripleD

xzacx said:


> Gotta say that might be the first time I've heard someone playing and 8 string and not thought it sounded stupid. Still would be nice if we could clear up that whole Vik involvement thing...



I'm a little out of the loop, besides the homophobic remarks, was there anything else that steered people away from him?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DickyTripleD said:


> I'm a little out of the loop, besides the homophobic remarks, was there anything else that steered people away from him?



He ran off with peoples' money. There's a whole thread in the Luthiery section on it.


----------



## DickyTripleD

MaxOfMetal said:


> He ran off with peoples' money. There's a whole thread in the Luthiery section on it.



Damn... Thanks for the heads up, I'll check it out.


----------



## StevenC

https://abasiguitars.com/larada-8/

Would order if Wenge were an option


----------



## Albake21

Wait... there's no Larada 7, what gives?


----------



## narad

Gimme dem low serialz


----------



## MrJoncas

No 7 strings, no top option, no wenge neck, horrible color choice. Unless there are some specific reasons behind these very limited options, I think it's a bad business move. They advertised many more options by showing the previous ones (not just Falbo's) and then not offer them at launch, it does them no good. They could have at least said a word about the 7 strings version, add a flamed maple top option with a few translucid colors as well as some more popular solid colors and the wenge neck option. Wenge isn't that hard to source. That's my opinion, I don't know what their development strategy is. We'll see.


----------



## Jonathan20022

SSO gonna SSO 

It's actually refreshing to see them launch with limited options vs offering a million things and features that can cause complications along the way. The only thing missing is a few colors and the wenge neck, the Larada 7 not being there is definitely weird. But they probably have their reasons to do so early on.

If it's not for you atm, just wait until they add more options and buy whenever they have what you want. I'd rather see some longevity to the brand than not, I won't be an early adopter but if they offer a fully gloss 8 in black with a Wenge neck I'll be in whenever those options are available.


----------



## Vyn

Judging by the -coming soon- for the photograph of the 6 string and also knowing there are 6s in existence, I'd say they wanted to get orders online asap and uploaded the two most popular configs first (6 is always popular and most people know Tosin as an 8 dude). The 7 will likely come down the line in the next few weeks


The wenge missing as an option though is weird


----------



## sezna

theyre taking orders...who is gonna go first?

edit: im late rip


----------



## Hollowway

Jonathan20022 said:


> SSO gonna SSO
> 
> It's actually refreshing to see them launch with limited options vs offering a million things and features that can cause complications along the way. The only thing missing is a few colors and the wenge neck, the Larada 7 not being there is definitely weird. But they probably have their reasons to do so early on.
> 
> If it's not for you atm, just wait until they add more options and buy whenever they have what you want. I'd rather see some longevity to the brand than not, I won't be an early adopter but if they offer a fully gloss 8 in black with a Wenge neck I'll be in whenever those options are available.



Yeah, I almost got overwhelmed with the limited option palate as it is! The paint/finish options are pretty complicated. 

I just spec’d our a chartreuse one like in the example. MAN that thing is hot. I can’t rationalize dropping $3000 right now, but I reeeeeally want one!


----------



## Hollowway

Wait, what’s the scale length on these?

And Grover is for sure building these? Or am I out of the loop on this?


----------



## sezna

Hollowway said:


> Wait, what’s the scale length on these?
> 
> And Grover is for sure building these? Or am I out of the loop on this?


I believe the latest intel (a few weeks ago) states that Grover is. If that has already changed, there’s no news of it. 

@animalsasleader


----------



## Avedas

Hollowway said:


> Wait, what’s the scale length on these?


They were previously 25.5" to 27.2" IIRC so probably that.


----------



## cardinal

Damn I hate to complain but no straight scale/Floyd option yet.


----------



## Jason B

How about we all just relax and try to let Abasi Concepts do something _right_, first.

If they end up shipping out $3000 turds gilded with a 12-stage automotive paintjob, no one is going to feel cheated by an absence of corn and peanut customization.

I swear, you guys spec out guitars with only the NGD in-mind.


----------



## Emperoff

xzacx said:


> Gotta say that might be the first time I've heard someone playing and 8 string and not thought it sounded stupid.


That's because he's not actually playing the 8th string, just hitting it muted to create a "kick drum" kind of sound.


----------



## narad

Meh said:


> Looks like John Mayer is getting one:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BuZ-2IuA4cU/



He's using thumb-over! What an amateur!


----------



## MFB

John had a Novax on the cover of his _Room for Squares_ album, and is good friends with Charlie Hunter, of course the dude knows how to use an 8 string


----------



## jephjacques

Abasi is a wonderland


----------



## StevenC

Is it just me or is the configurator really bad at counting?


----------



## goobaba

Will somebody let me borrow their credit card? Unrelated


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Got a build spec'd and ready to submit, I just sent in a few questions before I do. I'm curious about the weight, the switching (is there a push/pull or push/push volume to choose between voice 1 and 2? 5 way? Assuming never did anybody any favors), and if there are plans for a headless in the future, as minimizing neck dive is a primo priority. That Chartreuse is gorgeous though and my finger is itchy.

When it comes down to it, I'm not sure many people have undergone a project this big, with this much of a learning curve, with these types of problems to overcome, with ground zero a public arena as elitist as SSO, while maintaining a world touring/recording career...I mean alls I'm saying is if you can't afford to buy it twice, you can't afford it at all, and if you can afford to buy it twice, you can afford to make room for launch time mistakes that I'm sure customer service will take care of. Unless he's Bernie 2.0. Which I just can't see but we HAVE been wrong...a few times? 

Or we could just sit back and see. Depending on the answers to those questions, an early build may be in order. Lost my mother in December, and like I did for my father, I'll be doing a remembrance build. She LOVED Chartreuse and Cyan. I don't mind being an early penguin off the ice here, guess we'll see. Either way I'm glad the company is going forward and am looking forward to some longevity!


----------



## Jonathan20022

Switching is available on the Fishman site, you get 1 push pull with a 5 way Switch and it only affects positions 1/3/5 on the blade switch. Although for some reason my set also changes 2 and 4 interestingly enough.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I have a set of the Tosin Fishmans in a Strandberg Metal 8 and have the switching set up that way, I just wanted to double check that it was available on these builds. Yeah Yeah maybe an overkill question, but when you assume you make an ass out of Uma Thurmond.


----------



## StevenC

I'm going to hold off until I'm sure there will be a trade agreement between the US and the UK.


----------



## lurè

Richlite is a nice add.

I guess it's another unsubmitted quote form due to lack of money


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

lurè said:


> Richlite is a nice add.



Seriously, three cheers for that. I'd love to see Richlite get some wider adoption.


----------



## Harry

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Seriously, three cheers for that. I'd love to see Richlite get some wider adoption.



Until the baby boomer, Jimmy Page and Clapton worshipping generation mostly die off/get old enough to be out of the guitar market (no offense to any of those here, obviously not aimed at you guys!), it's not gonna happen all that quickly. Have a look on some of the guitar forums with an older member base and you'd be amazed (or actually, maybe not) at how close minded some of these guys are towards anything remotely new or different.
Most of their reasoning has nothing to do with anything logical or any of the practical benefits of richlite and almost entirely "It's not wood, I don't like it"
I've seen a few rad guys on other forums in their 50s rocking Meshuggah signature guitars, multiscale and headless craziness but they're definitely in the strong minority of things.
Oddly enough, they seem about as open to owning and trying modeling gear as the younger guys (I imagine part of this is the weight and practically aspect), but definitely super conservative in actual guitar land.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Harry said:


> Until the baby boomer, Jimmy Page and Clapton worshipping generation mostly die off/get old enough to be out of the guitar market (no offense to any of those here, obviously not aimed at you guys!), it's not gonna happen all that quickly. Have a look on some of the guitar forums with an older member base and you'd be amazed (or actually, maybe not) at how close minded some of these guys are towards anything remotely new or different.
> Most of their reasoning has nothing to do with anything logical or any of the practical benefits of richlite and almost entirely "It's not wood, I don't like it"
> I've seen a few rad guys on other forums in their 50s rocking Meshuggah signature guitars, multiscale and headless craziness but they're definitely in the strong minority of things.
> Oddly enough, they seem about as open to owning and trying modeling gear as the younger guys (I imagine part of this is the weight and practically aspect), but definitely super conservative in actual guitar land.



That's definitely why the big heritage brands aren't quick to adopt (Fender, Gibson (hey, they tried), PRS, etc.), but really the biggest reason is purely cost. Wood is just so damn cheap for the big Asian OEMs to get and use that until richlite and other synthetics get much more cost effective we're not going to see a meaningful switch.


----------



## littlebadboy

Excerpt from Guitar World *article*:

The Tele-referencing Larada Space T, offered at a base price of $2,469, features stainless steel, standard frets; a Wilkinson 3-Saddle T-style bridge; Hipshot Vintage tuners; a bone nut; Fishman Greg Koch signature pickups; 3-way switching; 1 volume + 1 tone; dual voice mode; a 10-inch – 14-inch compound radius and a 25.5-inch scale length.







Somewhere there:


Thoughts?


----------



## gunch

I really think they shouldn't have made the headstock tip look like an actual penis


----------



## cardinal

@glassmoon0fo that Chartreuse is what I want. Looks killer.


----------



## srrdude

gunch said:


> I really think they shouldn't have made the headstock tip look like an actual penis


you uh....you might wanna see a doctor. I think there is something wrong with your penis.


----------



## Hollowway

That tele version needs to be taken around back and shot.


----------



## Hollowway

Jason B said:


> How about we all just relax and try to let Abasi Concepts do something _right_, first.
> 
> If they end up shipping out $3000 turds gilded with a 12-stage automotive paintjob, no one is going to feel cheated by an absence of corn and peanut customization.
> 
> I swear, you guys spec out guitars with only the NGD in-mind.



Totally OT, but what is corn and peanut? I’m generally pretty good with colloquialisms, but I don’t know that one.


----------



## Hollowway

srrdude said:


> you uh....you might wanna see a doctor. I think there is something wrong with your penis.



Nah, I think he has a point. Not to take this too far off topic, but I definitely see a glans. This particular model has been circumcised.


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> Totally OT, but what is corn and peanut? I’m generally pretty good with colloquialisms, but I don’t know that one.



I'm not positive, but I think its maybe a euphemism for...shit, maybe?


----------



## spudmunkey

srrdude said:


> you uh....you might wanna see a doctor. I think there is something wrong with your penis.


----------



## Avedas

Something about relic'ing a guitar that was clearly designed and built like half an hour ago just doesn't sit right with me. Also 3 saddle bridge is disgusting


----------



## JP Universe

I just specced out a build.

I’m looking at (aesthetically) doing a bit of a classic Olympic white strat kinda vibe

Swamp Ash body, maple neck. Olympic white top. Wonder if I can have no dots? Will have to ask them.

I haven’t bought a new guitar in over a year, being a responsible adult with a mortgage and stuff. Might sell some of my stocks and treat myself. I’ll ask the boss... always a fun process.


----------



## Avedas

Isaiah Sharkey is an Abasi artist now playing with John Mayer. That'll be some nice exposure for the brand.


----------



## cip 123

StevenC said:


> I'm going to hold off until I'm sure there will be a trade agreement between the US and the UK.


"I won't be buying one of these"


----------



## Seabeast2000

StevenC said:


> I'm going to hold off until I'm sure there will be a trade agreement between the US and the UK.



What a strange trade agreement that will be. Who's going to sneak in the Abasi Concepts line item?


----------



## narad

Just wait for the next Abasi builder to be based in the UK.


----------



## cip 123

narad said:


> Just wait for the next Abasi builder to be based in the UK.


Yo Tosin hmu.


----------



## Musiscience

Hollowway said:


> That tele version needs to be taken around back and shot.



Put that poor thing out of it’s misery.


----------



## spudmunkey

I feel like the kind of buyer who would want this, even if they want the 3-saddle style bridge, would at least want that Wilkinson tele bridge that has the saddles with the pivot point in the center to allow *some* individual string intonation.


----------



## jephjacques

I've got a Tele with the 3 saddle bridge and it's honestly not a big deal, y'all. You don't notice the "inaccurate" intonation unless you're watching a strobe tuner while you comp jazz chords on the 15th fret or whatever.

I'm 90% sure the Telebasi was built specifically to troll this board.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> I feel like the kind of buyer who would want this, even if they want the 3-saddle style bridge, would at least want that Wilkinson tele bridge that has the saddles with the pivot point in the center to allow *some* individual string intonation.
> 
> View attachment 67451



You'd be surprised how good those old school Tele bridges work.

Besides, with all the hub-bub the internet makes about intonation, almost everyone doesn't even bother intonating with a proper tuner and forget about folks with Floyds and Kahlers and really most bridges where the intonation points aren't stupid easy to get to.

Plus, everyone who just tunes up/down thier fixed bridge guitars whenever.

Intonation is just one of those things everyone like to say they care about, but in practice are totally fine being a little out because a) unless you have a damn good ear you're not going to hear it, b) the audience certainly isn't going to hear it and if they do they're not going to complain about it, and c) lazy.

Just like folks who throw thier noses up at the "tone suck" of some widely used pedals but don't take the time to cut the extra 25' of cable in thier pedal boards.


----------



## jephjacques

cip 123 said:


> "I won't be buying one of these"



Hey StevenC I'll trade you some of your guitars for some sweet, sweet antibiotics in 6 months


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> I'm 90% sure the Telebasi was built specifically to troll this board.



Two things:

1) For the staunch "future space guitarists" who rail against "tradition" so much they can't be seen dead with an actual Tele even though they sound great, look great, and are super affordable/abundant.

2) Abasi might be looking ahead of the small niche that are into him and his music, hence the Mayer connection.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I think Tosin said the reason the Space tele happend was just because they could.


----------



## Vyn

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think Tosin said the reason the Space tele happend was just because they could.



Wasn't it him and Frank joking around in the shop mocking a pickguard up on a Larada body?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Vyn said:


> Wasn't it him and Frank joking around in the shop mocking a pickguard up on a Larada body?



Yeah, and I think it lead to them saying it made a good proof of concept showing they could make it because they could.


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> Hey StevenC I'll trade you some of your guitars for some sweet, sweet antibiotics in 6 months


Man, if I'm not finished this current course of amoxicillin I'll take you up on that.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

MaxOfMetal said:


> Intonation is just one of those things everyone like to say they care about, but in practice are totally fine being a little out because a) unless you have a damn good ear you're not going to hear it, b) the audience certainly isn't going to hear it and if they do they're not going to complain about it, and c) lazy.



I do a lot of tabbing and often pro guitarists don't even care about intonation. I've come across Children of bodom, August burns red, blind guardian, opeth, slipknot etc songs with terrible intonation and parts where their guitars went out of tune but they kept tracking and used the take. Like you said you don't notice when youre just listening, it's not something your brain picks up on or feels something's wrong unless it's really out. It's the same with so many instruments, violin players constantly go sharp and flat. That said I find fretless guitars horrible to listen to but that's more down to the skill of the player not being precise enough.


----------



## Musiscience

jephjacques said:


> I've got a Tele with the 3 saddle bridge and it's honestly not a big deal, y'all. You don't notice the "inaccurate" intonation unless you're watching a strobe tuner while you comp jazz chords on the 15th fret or whatever.
> 
> I'm 90% sure the Telebasi was built specifically to troll this board.



To be honest, I love teles, so much. They are my favorite looking and sounding instrument. Not too concerned about the traditional 3 saddle bridge. But as far as my personal taste is concerned, that Abasi one is an aesthetic abomination.


----------



## jephjacques

See that's fair IMO! Personal taste is what it is. I dig the tele, but if they had built one specced out like a cherry sunburst les paul I'd be the one yelling about how it needs to be thrown in a wood chipper.


----------



## cardinal

I like the Space Tele... sorry.

And I’m eagerly awaiting an 8-string Silver Sky, which I’m sure is right around the corner.


----------



## sezna

Musiscience said:


> To be honest, I love teles, so much. They are my favorite looking and sounding instrument. Not too concerned about the traditional 3 saddle bridge. But as far as my personal taste is concerned, that Abasi one is an aesthetic abomination.


What do you think about the strandberg salem tele thing?


----------



## diagrammatiks

sezna said:


> What do you think about the strandberg salem tele thing?



So much prettier and better then the abasi. 

Why does the abasi still have a headstock.


----------



## sezna

diagrammatiks said:


> So much prettier and better then the abasi.
> 
> Why does the abasi still have a headstock.


At one point in time, over a year ago, he said headless would be an option. Not sure if it is still in the works.


----------



## Hollowway

I kind of feel like the whole headless thing has jumped the shark at this point. I think there's a place for headless, but we're seeing the heads of otherwise totally normal guitars get cut off just because it's trendy. 
That said, I can't rule out buying a headless version.


----------



## A-Branger

cardinal said:


> I like the Space Tele... sorry.



me too. Looks like a cool concept. But I wouldnt buy one beacuse I dont like teles and I dont like the traditional aged yellow look either. But it does looks awesome


----------



## Miek

if Sharkey's on board, I'm gonna be open minded


----------



## Seabeast2000

Hollowway said:


> I kind of feel like the whole headless thing has jumped the shark at this point. I think there's a place for headless, but we're seeing the heads of otherwise totally normal guitars get cut off just because it's trendy.
> That said, I can't rule out buying a headless version.



You can always dip your toe with a demi-headless.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Hollowway said:


> I kind of feel like the whole headless thing has jumped the shark at this point. I think there's a place for headless, but we're seeing the heads of otherwise totally normal guitars get cut off just because it's trendy.
> That said, I can't rule out buying a headless version.



Otherwise Totally normal guitars.
This fucking thing.

Pick one.



Just gonna put this here real quick. That’s how it should look


----------



## Jason B

glassmoon0fo said:


> I mean alls I'm saying is if you can't afford to buy it twice, you can't afford it at all, and if you can afford to buy it twice, you can afford to make room for launch time mistakes that I'm sure customer service will take care of.



We’ve found the Abasi Concepts motto!



gunch said:


> I really think they shouldn't have made the headstock tip look like an actual penis



You wouldn’t happen to be Grigori Rasputin, would you?



Vyn said:


> Wasn't [the tele] him and Frank joking around in the shop mocking a pickguard up on a Larada body?



Yeah and, from what I understand, it was a $15,000 prototype. So this Howard Lovecraft signature tele is basically a steal (according to Frank, anyway).



Spoiler



I said 15 so Frank would reply that he only embezzled 13.


----------



## Musiscience

sezna said:


> What do you think about the strandberg salem tele thing?



I really like the design as a novelty telecaster. Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to try one yet, so I can't really comment on it. 

But if you really want the classic telecaster sound and vibe, nothing is ever going to replace a vintage specced fender with a good set of pickups IMO.


----------



## Seabeast2000

diagrammatiks said:


> Otherwise Totally normal guitars.
> This fucking thing.
> 
> Pick one.
> 
> 
> 
> Just gonna put this here real quick. That’s how it should look
> 
> View attachment 67459



I have to ask, what is that make? I like it.


----------



## Solodini

The906 said:


> I have to ask, what is that make? I like it.


Seconded.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Blackwater, I think.


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> Blackwater, I think.



Yup. Whenever it's a great design, you know it must be the work of a now defunct builder.


----------



## jephjacques

Jason B said:


> Howard Lovecraft signature tele



fucking lmao


----------



## jephjacques

The906 said:


> You can always dip your toe with a demi-headless.


this looks like a guitar that got attacked by a shark and the surgeons did the best they could but it will never walk again


----------



## pott

I'd LOVE a little bit of string behind the nut, for those behind-the-nut bends. I use them whenever playing anything that's not metal, and that's the only thing I miss with typical headless guitars.


----------



## spudmunkey

The906 said:


> You can always dip your toe with a demi-headless.



The amount of string sticking out of the end is making me itch.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Hollowway said:


> I kind of feel like the whole headless thing has jumped the shark at this point. I think there's a place for headless, but we're seeing the heads of otherwise totally normal guitars get cut off just because it's trendy.
> That said, I can't rule out buying a headless version.


Almost every guitar trend seems to get overdone. 

It's really weird to me how brands that you wish would branch out sometimes never do, then others you want to stay the same will ruin their products chasing a trend.


----------



## Seabeast2000

In a way. All trends get overdone.


----------



## Demiurge

In a way, something being niche nowadays has its own appeal, so people are chasing non-traditional things to the extent that they become common. 

Headless, fanned frets, non-wood materials for necks & bodies- stuff like that has been around for decades with various success in survival for their time. Maybe we have better technology now, too, but I think that's why they're coming back.


----------



## Albake21

narad said:


> Yup. Whenever it's a great design, you know it must be the work of a now defunct builder.


I apologize for being slightly off topic, but what happened to Blackwater? It looks like they just went dark 3 years ago.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Aaron's been MIA for the last few months - year or so. I've seen activity here and there but no word about progress of builds and guitars in the shop atm.

Last I personally spoke to him he said he had every intention of completing pipeline builds and dropping luthiery for the foreseeable future. He's an immense talent, but if it's going to keep people in the loop like this I agree with his course of action to cut loose ends and wrap up ongoing builds then permanently close up shop or temporarily until he can work like Doug and output at his own pace.


----------



## ixlramp

jephjacques said:


> I've got a Tele with the 3 saddle bridge and it's honestly not a big deal, y'all. You don't notice the "inaccurate" intonation unless you're watching a strobe tuner while you comp jazz chords on the 15th fret or whatever.


Fixing intonation offset in pairs makes a significant difference, and guitarists do notice intonation and tuning issues when not watching a strobe tuner, there's a lot of complaining about intonation and getting excited about Evertune.


MaxOfMetal said:


> You'd be surprised how good those old school Tele bridges work.


Well, they don't and can't according to the laws of physics, 3 saddles is just sloppy and it's embarassing that any guitar has them just because this was how it was done 60-70 years ago.


MaxOfMetal said:


> almost everyone doesn't even bother intonating with a proper tuner


Still no excuse, most guitarists, even Strat players, appreciate individual saddle intonation.


MaxOfMetal said:


> Intonation is just one of those things everyone like to say they care about, but in practice are totally fine being a little out because a) unless you have a damn good ear you're not going to hear it, b) the audience certainly isn't going to hear it and if they do they're not going to complain about it


Nope, nope and nope.

That Space T is super-ugly, the modern aspects clash badly with the Tele aspects, and the 3 saddle bridge and relicing is ridiculous. I have no idea why they would waste their time on this instead of something else, it's so out of place in the company and so removed from the tastes of those who are drawn to this company and what they are doing.


Lorcan Ward said:


> violin players constantly go sharp and flat.


That's intentional and controlled. Talented violinists have an appreciation and control of pitch far beyond most guitarists. They'll shift intonation between 12TET, Just Intonation and Pythagorean according to the needs of the music.


Hollowway said:


> I kind of feel like the whole headless thing has jumped the shark at this point. I think there's a place for headless, but we're seeing the heads of otherwise totally normal guitars get cut off just because it's trendy.


I'm amazed that some are actually complaining about there being too many headless guitars, it's not actually happening, there are just a few more than almost none, and besides, it's an overwhelmingly good thing as i'm sure you agree (i know your tastes).
It's certainly not 'trendy', 60-70 year old ergonomically bad designs are still the overwhelming 'trend' unfortunately.


----------



## Soya

Whew, have fun with that one friend.


----------



## Seabeast2000

narad said:


> Yup. Whenever it's a great design, you know it must be the work of a now defunct builder.



Hmm, the site seems to be fully up and running but there's a "we'll start taking orders in May 2015" on there. Someone's paying for the site hosting/domain.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ixlramp said:


> Fixing intonation offset in pairs makes a significant difference, and guitarists do notice intonation and tuning issues when not watching a strobe tuner, there's a lot of complaining about intonation and getting excited about Evertune.
> 
> Well, they don't and can't according to the laws of physics, 3 saddles is just sloppy and it's embarassing that any guitar has them just because this was how it was done 60-70 years ago.
> 
> Still no excuse, most guitarists, even Strat players, appreciate individual saddle intonation.
> 
> Nope, nope and nope.
> 
> That Space T is super-ugly, the modern aspects clash badly with the Tele aspects, and the 3 saddle bridge and relicing is ridiculous. I have no idea why they would waste their time on this instead of something else, it's so out of place in the company and so removed from the tastes of those who are drawn to this company and what they are doing.
> 
> That's intentional and controlled. Talented violinists have an appreciation and control of pitch far beyond most guitarists. They'll shift intonation between 12TET, Just Intonation and Pythagorean according to the needs of the music.
> 
> I'm amazed that some are actually complaining about there being too many headless guitars, it's not actually happening, there are just a few more than almost none, and besides, it's an overwhelmingly good thing as i'm sure you agree (i know your tastes).
> It's certainly not 'trendy', 60-70 year old ergonomically bad designs are still the overwhelming 'trend' unfortunately.



You tell 'em!


----------



## narad

I think the 3-saddle bridge is like analog tape recording or something. There's some attributes that should, technically speaking, be to its detriment, but because of its cultural significance and use in particular contexts, it actually becomes charming. Maybe not my go-to for some more modern prog metal type of genre, but just somehow carries a more authentic vibe -- I'm not sure if by feel, by some timbre effect of the contact point, or if just by keeping things just slightly out in terms of intonation.

I mean, we're guitar players. If we gave a fuck about intonation we wouldn't be playing guitar.


----------



## Opion

narad said:


> I think the 3-saddle bridge is like analog tape recording or something. There's some attributes that should, technically speaking, be to its detriment, but because of its cultural significance and use in particular contexts, it actually becomes charming. Maybe not my go-to for some more modern prog metal type of genre, but just somehow carries a more authentic vibe -- I'm not sure if by feel, by some timbre effect of the contact point, or if just by keeping things just slightly out in terms of intonation.
> 
> I mean, we're guitar players. If we gave a fuck about intonation we wouldn't be playing guitar.



I think you're exactly right. The Telecaster is what single handedly swayed me into the vintage guitar sound territory after years of playing super Strats, there's just nothing like the sound of a single coil guitar running through a tube amp. It's an unmistakable tone that almost shapes the way you play, and only a few particular guitars IMO have achieved that significance. 

I'm totally cool with the Space-T. I just wanna see one with fanned frets cause why not? But it makes sense that that's the guitar he wants to have straight frets. Add to the fact Isaiah Sharkey is playing one now and I'm sold.


----------



## Hollowway

ixlramp said:


> I'm amazed that some are actually complaining about there being too many headless guitars, it's not actually happening, there are just a few more than almost none, and besides, it's an overwhelmingly good thing as i'm sure you agree (i know your tastes).
> It's certainly not 'trendy', 60-70 year old ergonomically bad designs are still the overwhelming 'trend' unfortunately.



Yeah, I hope I didn’t come across as complaining about the number of headless guitars out there. My complaint is more than a number of companies think you can just pop off the headstock, and voila, you have a cool headless guitar. IMO, the butt end needs a complete redesign as well, which usually leads to a complete model redesign. But, instead we see people just carve out a part for the tuners. 

Not that I’m saying the Larada suffers from this. I’m just saying in general, suddenly everyone is just short cutting to the “hey we have a new headless!”


----------



## Jason B

Opion said:


> there's just nothing like the sound of a single coil guitar running through a tube amp. It's an unmistakable tone that *almost* shapes the way you play, and only a few particular guitars IMO have achieved that significance.



Well I’m sold.


----------



## jephjacques

Trombone players have a sense of intonation FAR outstripping that of guitarists


----------



## diagrammatiks

jephjacques said:


> Trombone players have a sense of intonation FAR outstripping that of guitarists



Come on. Guitarists are barely real musicians.

We literally play the most easy mode version invented for our instrument.


----------



## jwade

The906 said:


> You can always dip your toe with a demi-headless.


Holy shit that looks painful. I actually cringed seeing those strong ends. Guh.


----------



## AxeHappy

Violin was my first instrument and trombone was my second. 

Mostly we're just really good at sliding and vibrato. Can't be out of tune if you're intentionally manipulating the pitch up and down.


----------



## spudmunkey

AxeHappy said:


> Violin was my first instrument and trombone was my second.
> 
> Mostly we're just really good at sliding and vibrato. Can't be out of tune if you're intentionally manipulating the pitch up and down.



This is me when I play fretless bass:


----------



## Seabeast2000

spudmunkey said:


> This is me when I play fretless bass:



Useless?


----------



## spudmunkey

No, black and bald. And a foot taller.


----------



## Vyn

narad said:


> If we gave a fuck about intonation we wouldn't be playing guitar.



Couldn't smash the like button enough.


----------



## spudmunkey

diagrammatiks said:


> Come on. Guitarists are barely real musicians.
> 
> We literally play the most easy mode version invented for our instrument.



Case in point: we even have our own paint-by-numbers "sheet music" (aka "TAB").


----------



## jephjacques

And these days we only use the numebrs 0 and 1


----------



## Quiet Coil

jephjacques said:


> And these days we only use the numebrs 0 and 1


Not mocking at all here, but...

Numebrs - am I the only one that sees a band name there? Pronounced “NOOM-bers”.

If I thought I’d ever be in another band I’d totally steal it.


----------



## spudmunkey

My luck, someone would think it's supposed to be "NEW-mee Bros".


----------



## ixlramp

Anyway =) ... i just don't like this "meh it's good enough, most guitarists are sloppy, no-one cares, no-one notices, sloppy design is ok" attitude. It's sloppy, negative, defeatist, depressing, inverted snobbery, and obstructs progress. Everything we appreciate about our guitars came about from people not having that attitude, there would be no Floyd Rose tremolo for a start.


narad said:


> I think the 3-saddle bridge is like analog tape recording or something.


I don't think that's a good analogy, because tape is essential to it's distinctive and pleasant sound. A 3 part bridge is not necessary for a Telecaster to have it's charm, it's much more due to other factors which is probably what you are appreciating.


Opion said:


> there's just nothing like the sound of a single coil guitar running through a tube amp. It's an unmistakable tone that almost shapes the way you play,


That has nothing to do with the 3 saddle bridge though.

Fender has had 65 years to upgrade the Telecaster hardware to 6 saddles and there is no reason why that couldn't be done, but they didn't. This is one of the reasons i dislike Fender and Gibson, the pointless clinging to tradition.
Leo Fender was an innovator so it seems the company has since been run in a way that disrespects his innovative spirit.

Long ago someone lent me a Telecaster. It is one of the ugliest guitars i have ever seen. I'm still trying to work out why someone screwed a metal ashtray to the front. Certainly the ugliest bridge of any mainstream guitar, again never changed.

Anyway, i would respect the Abasi company more if their attitude to those with old-fashioned tastes was: "this place isn't for you, go away". I can imagine the Space-T was 'popular' at NAMM, but of course only because mainstream taste in guitars is so bad and so old fashioned.

Now Strandberg has unfortunately released an ugly 'Teleberg' which also looks wrong. Their 'classic' looks ok because it keeps the same shape.


----------



## Quiet Coil

spudmunkey said:


> My luck, someone would think it's supposed to be "NEW-mee Bros".



Perfect - ready-made pronunciation snobbery for the elite fans!


----------



## diagrammatiks

ixlramp said:


> Anyway =) ... i just don't like this "meh it's good enough, most guitarists are sloppy, no-one cares, no-one notices, sloppy design is ok" attitude. It's sloppy, negative, defeatist, depressing, inverted snobbery, and obstructs progress. Everything we appreciate about our guitars came about from people not having that attitude, there would be no Floyd Rose tremolo for a start.
> 
> I don't think that's a good analogy, because tape is essential to it's distinctive and pleasant sound. A 3 part bridge is not necessary for a Telecaster to have it's charm, it's much more due to other factors which is probably what you are appreciating.
> 
> That has nothing to do with the 3 saddle bridge though.
> 
> Fender has had 65 years to upgrade the Telecaster hardware to 6 saddles and there is no reason why that couldn't be done, but they didn't. This is one of the reasons i dislike Fender and Gibson, the pointless clinging to tradition.
> Leo Fender was an innovator so it seems the company has since been run in a way that disrespects his innovative spirit.
> 
> Long ago someone lent me a Telecaster. It is one of the ugliest guitars i have ever seen. I'm still trying to work out why someone screwed a metal ashtray to the front. Certainly the ugliest bridge of any mainstream guitar, again never changed.
> 
> Anyway, i would respect the Abasi company more if their attitude to those with old-fashioned tastes was: "this place isn't for you, go away". I can imagine the Space-T was 'popular' at NAMM, but of course only because mainstream taste in guitars is so bad and so old fashioned.
> 
> Now Strandberg has unfortunately released an ugly 'Teleberg' which also looks wrong. Their 'classic' looks ok because it keeps the same shape.



You shut your mouth. The Salen looks great. Some questionable control decisions but the shape is much better then the classic.


----------



## narad

ixlramp said:


> Anyway =) ... i just don't like this "meh it's good enough, most guitarists are sloppy, no-one cares, no-one notices, sloppy design is ok" attitude. It's sloppy, negative, defeatist, depressing, inverted snobbery, and obstructs progress. Everything we appreciate about our guitars came about from people not having that attitude, there would be no Floyd Rose tremolo for a start.
> 
> I don't think that's a good analogy, because tape is essential to it's distinctive and pleasant sound. A 3 part bridge is not necessary for a Telecaster to have it's charm, it's much more due to other factors which is probably what you are appreciating.



*Maybe* The bottom line is that I prefer playing a lot of older classic rock stuff on traditional spec telecasters. Is it the 3 saddle design? I'm not sure, but I can attest that a hannes there pretty much killed it, as I have played such an abomination. I'm not going to dress up like a storm trooper to go re-enact the civil war, and the role of electric guitar in a lot of genres has not drifted significantly from what it was in the 60s/70s.

I feel like you're viewing yourself as a proponent for the improvement of guitar, but what you're really doing is thinking in absolutes and driving this false sense of conflict. I play a strat some days. Then I played a fanned fret 8-string carbon fiber thing on another day. I buy a fender some years. I buy an Oni some other years. Both brands know theier markets, and there is no reason every guitar company must make every change that can be scientifically argued for, as every change also has other side effects. 

Leo was an innovator because he had no real precedent to stand on. But you look at the continued modifications of the instruments throughout the 60s and 70s at G&L, and it's clear he was not this kind of "continually push the limits" kind of innovator you describe. 

I mean, you want a 6-saddle tele bridge? I think if you're not going to get a true temperament fretboard with it you must be a poseur. And frankly, if you're not supporting microtonal increments in 2019, you're running Fender into the ground and spitting in the face of Leo Fender's legacy of innovation.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

ixlramp said:


> Fender has had 65 years to upgrade the Telecaster hardware to 6 saddles and there is no reason why that couldn't be done, but they didn't. This is one of the reasons i dislike Fender and Gibson, the pointless clinging to tradition.



Fender has made plenty of teles with six saddle bridges. My early 2000s American Standard has one, and the current Player and Elite series have them. They still make guitars with 3 saddle bridges because there are still customers who want them.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Plus, if we're going to dislike companies that still use bridges with poor intonation adjustment, let's also throw in PRS...







...and practically every acoustic ever made.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Fender has made plenty of teles with six saddle bridges. My early 2000s American Standard has one, and the current Player and Elite series have them. They still make guitars with 3 saddle bridges because there are still customers who want them.



Fender has offered Telecasters with six saddle bridges since 1974.


----------



## Randy

diagrammatiks said:


> Come on. Guitarists are barely real musicians.
> 
> We literally play the most easy mode version invented for our instrument.





spudmunkey said:


> Case in point: we even have our own paint-by-numbers "sheet music" (aka "TAB").



Both posts straddling humor and truth, I know, but had to address it since I had a phase a couple years ago where I hated guitar.

After taking a sabbatical, honestly, guitar has a lot of things going for it. I agree the barrier to entry is a lot lower with regard to the effort necessary to sound competent versus, say, a violin or saxophone but that's less of an indictment and more of an asset.

Also, the guitar itself is a comparatively VERY versatile instruments. A six string guitar covers 4 octaves and is capable of playing chords, which combined are two traits that are hard to find across the range of most Western instruments, and made even more unique by HOW complex those voicings can be (~4 fingers, 6-strings that can all be used at the same time).

Thats before you even consider things like ERGs or two hand techniques. At that point your only competition is a piano, which is considerably less easy to hang on your shoulder or carry on a plane. Also, I mentioned in another thread recently, pianos have the whole 'black keys' thing to contend with, which makes things like transposing unnecessarily complicated whereas you just take your same forms and move them up or down in the same exact shape on guitar.

So I mean, it's a good instrument. There's no shame standing next to a classical musician just because you can learn Smoke On The Water within an hour of picking a guitar up for the first time. If anything, the versatility of the instrument and ease of seeing results early raises the ceiling of what a person can do with one if they wanted to.


----------



## Schectersilence

Couldn’t agree more Randy. Guitar has a low barrier to entry, but it’s a great instrument.

I don’t necessarily think an instrument like saxophone is harder per se anyway, and it shouldn’t count if it were. You just get used to the method of making sound, and then get on with the musicality which is all that counts. In terms of difficult, a set of bag pipes (physically tiring) or didgeridoo (weird, counter intuitive breathing) are “difficult”. But we don’t all spend our time saying “meh, I never listen to guitar music because it’s too easy. I only listen to Scottish bag pipe anthems”. That would be a) ridiculous, and b) elitist.

Guitar has its merits that make it, at least somewhat, unique. We shouldn’t discount it because it’s “easy”. The biggest oddity with guitar is how easy it is to generate super wide chords. Try playing them on a piano and it’s just hard and totally unnatural (and even unplayable in some instances). Similarly, fairly basic chords on a piano have all the notes clusters together which is a nightmare for guitarists.


----------



## Opion

ixlramp said:


> That has nothing to do with the 3 saddle bridge though.
> 
> Fender has had 65 years to upgrade the Telecaster hardware to 6 saddles and there is no reason why that couldn't be done, but they didn't. This is one of the reasons i dislike Fender and Gibson, the pointless clinging to tradition.
> Leo Fender was an innovator so it seems the company has since been run in a way that disrespects his innovative spirit.
> 
> Long ago someone lent me a Telecaster. It is one of the ugliest guitars i have ever seen. I'm still trying to work out why someone screwed a metal ashtray to the front. Certainly the ugliest bridge of any mainstream guitar, again never changed.
> 
> Anyway, i would respect the Abasi company more if their attitude to those with old-fashioned tastes was: "this place isn't for you, go away". I can imagine the Space-T was 'popular' at NAMM, but of course only because mainstream taste in guitars is so bad and so old fashioned.



I never said it had anything to do with the 3 saddle bridge- notice I said “Singlecoils running through a tube amp”, not “3 saddle bridge guitar running through a tube amp”. If you’re going to split hairs as much as you’ve done throughout this entire thread with your anecdotal experience you might want to not misquote me- but I won’t disagree with you on that entirely, it is more than just the bridge that gives it the sound.

I do have to say though, what is the point in bashing a “pointless tradition”? You do realize that this “pointless tradition” has made some of the greatest music of the 20th century and has stood the test of time for over 60 years? I think you’re honestly wasting time and energy pining for modernity in guitar design. Nobody is telling you you have to play a guitar with “wrong” intonation, although judging by your posts in the Music Theory section, seems like this is something that is very important to you. To each his own. My advice: let the guitar builders decide for themselves what they think the market wants and let the customers vote with their wallet.

TLDR: opinions gonna opinion


----------



## Thaeon

You have builders like John Suhr, who hate poor design that will still use a 3 saddle bridge on a Tele. They do contribute to a specific sound. They are sometimes a PITA to get settled right, but it can be done. I have a guitar that has a basically old design with some modern appointments, like quiet single coil settings, and I've got an Oni on the way. I like Lotus and Tesla. That doesn't mean that I hate Chevelles and GTOs. There is a time and a place for everything.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Saddle debates will start wars in certain telecaster groups and forums. 

I don’t get all the hooplah. I love teles and Tele pickups. I don’t think I’ve ever owned a three saddle Tele. 

My first Tele was an Anderson. My second is a baritone. My newest one is a Strandberg. 

Builders will eventually just give people what they want though. Anderson finally released a three saddle Tele in 2018.


----------



## Jason B

Thaeon said:


> They do contribute to a specific sound.



No.


----------



## narad

Jason B said:


> No.



Bridges don't affect sound?


----------



## iamaom

narad said:


> Bridges don't affect sound?


I'd argue they affect sound in the same way a fly landing on the headstock would, technically yes but not in any perceivable way. Have you ever thought to yourself "man my guitar sounds like shit, I should change the bridge"?


----------



## narad

iamaom said:


> I'd argue they affect sound in the same way a fly landing on the headstock would, technically yes but not in any perceivable way. Have you ever thought to yourself "man my guitar sounds like shit, I should change the bridge"?



I think bridges make a pretty significant difference. Not pickup difference, but a difference you can't EQ for as much for. If I change the block on a floyd I get a noticeable difference, so why would the rest of the design and the saddle design and material be any different?


----------



## Jason B

iamaom said:


> I'd argue they affect sound in the same way a fly landing on the headstock would



That other extreme is also wrong. My response pertains to the guy claiming that the people buying 3-saddle teles for the sake of retro aesthetics are actually just all about that “specific” 3-saddle tone that no one will ever produce an example of. Cue someone posting a YouTube video featuring two totally different teles under the pretense that the 3-saddle bridge is the sole determining factor in why two different guitars would sound like two different guitars.

Dozens of legit physicists on sso have pissed in the wind by explaining, to people with zero interest in adapting their beliefs to new information, the nature of how guitar hardware reflects energy back into the string. Those this information is intended for stick with their horseshoe beliefs based in nothing. At most, they just take their case to a different thread.


----------



## BigViolin

Yes, changing a cheap, light, shitmetal bridge for something with some mass and dense saddle materials makes a pretty big difference.


----------



## narad

Jason B said:


> Dozens of legit physicists on sso have pissed in the wind by explaining, to people with zero interest in adapting their beliefs to new information, the nature of how guitar hardware reflects energy back into the string. Those this information is intended for stick with their horseshoe beliefs based in nothing.



Frankly, if they don't even understand the physics of piss and wind, I'm not inclined to believe what they say about strings and bridges.


----------



## Dayn

Not that I can speak from experience for Tele bridges, I can at least say that I'm not really a fan of Tune-o-Matics because of how they sound. Much different to my fixed Edge bridge.


----------



## iamaom

narad said:


> Frankly, if they don't even understand the physics of piss and wind, I'm not inclined to believe what they say about strings and bridges.


I guess that's what they mean by "fluid dynamics"...


----------



## BigViolin

Well since we are gutting sacred cows here, I wish someone would build a Hannes bridge with decent materials. It's a brilliant, elegant and super comfy design but I've tried mine with two different bodies and it is without a doubt my least favorite sounding bridge I've tried, and it's not really close. There's just this plinky fakeness to it that I can't get past.
And I was an early adopter who really wanted to love it.

Wonder how a $500 brass and stainless Hannes would sell?


----------



## arhg

sooooo..... i guess we're pretty far off topic, then ?


----------



## Thaeon

Jason B said:


> That other extreme is also wrong. My response pertains to the guy claiming that the people buying 3-saddle teles for the sake of retro aesthetics are actually just all about that “specific” 3-saddle tone that no one will ever produce an example of. Cue someone posting a YouTube video featuring two totally different teles under the pretense that the 3-saddle bridge is the sole determining factor in why two different guitars would sound like two different guitars.
> 
> Dozens of legit physicists on sso have pissed in the wind by explaining, to people with zero interest in adapting their beliefs to new information, the nature of how guitar hardware reflects energy back into the string. Those this information is intended for stick with their horseshoe beliefs based in nothing. At most, they just take their case to a different thread.



My post was not meant to say that they contributed a significant amount to the sound. Just that it is going to have some affect. The total mass and resonance of the instrument coupled with the scale length and the pickups are going to be the most significant affects. Beyond that, tiny little nuances that create slight alterations. I'm not inclined to think that I would be able to hear much, if any, difference myself. Changing the pickups is going to have a much greater influence on the overall sound. Even changing the pot values will have more influence.


----------



## sezna

arhg said:


> sooooo..... i guess we're pretty far off topic, then ?


Well Abasi _did_ make a tele-thing. So...is it off topic?


----------



## arhg

sezna said:


> Well Abasi _did_ make a tele-thing. So...is it off topic?



Well..... uhm. Are we discussing his tele in particular, or aesthetics of bridges in general? There are more pictures of non-Abasi guitars than anything else 
Don't get me wrong, I love a good petty argument over whether guitars are actual instruments, hard to master and/or carry up stairs, or if guitarists even counts as musicians before they learn to read sheet, and can modulate the complete AAL discography up and down on the fly.

I came into this thread in hopes of learning more about his builds and the stupid number of options in terms of configurations....... because, y'know, I'm actually considering getting one..... not because I want to know that "Fender has offered Telecasters with six saddle bridges since 1974."

By all means carry on, I have only finished half of my popcorn


----------



## sezna

arhg said:


> Well..... uhm. Are we discussing his tele in particular, or aesthetics of bridges in general? There are more pictures of non-Abasi guitars than anything else
> Don't get me wrong, I love a good petty argument over whether guitars are actual instruments, hard to master and/or carry up stairs, or if guitarists even counts as musicians before they learn to read sheet, and can modulate the complete AAL discography up and down on the fly.
> 
> I came into this thread in hopes of learning more about his builds and the stupid number of options in terms of configurations....... because, y'know, I'm actually considering getting one..... not because I want to know that "Fender has offered Telecasters with six saddle bridges since 1974."
> 
> By all means carry on, I have only finished half of my popcorn


I was being sarcastic, the thread was absolutely off topic. 

There is a lot of info here about his company and products. If you are curious about options and configurations, they are available via the build configurator on his site.

I am also very interested in buying one...the price point is not nearly as astronomical as I was anticipating...


----------



## arhg

sezna said:


> I was being sarcastic, the thread was absolutely off topic.
> 
> There is a lot of info here about his company and products. If you are curious about options and configurations, they are available via the build configurator on his site.
> 
> I am also very interested in buying one...the price point is not nearly as astronomical as I was anticipating...




Yeah I figured you were being sarcastic 

The build configurator is exactly what I find hugely annoying; I find myself scrolling up and down because all the options relate back and forth. Sometimes websites go too far on the trend-hypes and forget what the point of the page is.

Starting to land on a configuration though. If only I could convince Tosin to take it with him when he comes to Europe, I worry the importing it to Scandinavia will add a good 40-50% on the price :\


----------



## Avedas

Import fees make it really hard to justify most custom builders for me. Probably one of the main reasons I've been putting off a custom build forever


----------



## sezna

arhg said:


> Yeah I figured you were being sarcastic
> 
> The build configurator is exactly what I find hugely annoying; I find myself scrolling up and down because all the options relate back and forth. Sometimes websites go too far on the trend-hypes and forget what the point of the page is.
> 
> Starting to land on a configuration though. If only I could convince Tosin to take it with him when he comes to Europe, I worry the importing it to Scandinavia will add a good 40-50% on the price :\


You're in Europe though, you get all the EU dealers! I'm just excited there's finally a brand I like and don't have to import from Poland. _looks at Mayones_


----------



## glassmoon0fo

So is anyone here actually putting an order in yet? I’m waiting to hear back from Ivan about two small details before I hit send, super ready to see how these will turn out because it’s gorgeous in my head. 

-Swamp ash body
-Roasted flamed maple neck 
-Birdseye maple fretboard (wonder if they could roast that too or would it be a hastle?)
-Sage premium level finish on body and headstock (fronts only if possible), May desire on a naked headstock to let that roasted flame maple pop
-white pickup covers
-chrome hardware 
-abelone inlays (if possible)

Going for a refined classic strat sort of color aesthetic, I think it will juxtapose nicely with the modern touch the design provides.

Small side note, I had a KxK built for my dad when he passed away that I still have, this will be the partner piece in rememberabce of my mom. Havnt had a custom in years now but I figure this is a good reason and a good time to support probably my most influential and like-minded artist. 

If you’re ordering or thinking about it, drop some specs


----------



## Dratch

Hey SSO,

Long time lurker. I’ve been GASing for this design since the Ibanez prototype days. Fortunately (?), I was unable to afford one when Abasi launched with Falbo, however, this time around I was able to place an order! I was really hoping for a 7 (Abasi Concepts Instagram said they’d unveil a design around summer), but I said F*** it and went for an 8.

Specs:
-Swamp ash body
-Flamed maple neck
-Flamed maple board
-Black hardware
-Open pore finish. Base white pores black.
-Unfinished headstock 

Super stoked to jam on this guitar! Unfortunately, I’ll probably receive it around finals, thus, my future NGD will potentially be delayed. That said, I look forward to posting it!

Thanks for the post inspiration @glassmoon0fo! I hope you hear back from Ivan soon so you can pull the trigger as well!


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Same, went ahead and placed the order. Ivan happened to be up and helped me out, turns out he was up answering emails at the time. I ended up going with all the above mentioned features except the body is Alder, both neck and board are roasted flamed maple, and I'm going with white pearl inlays. Abalone was no problem and I was thinking it might draw a little of that sage body color up through the neck, but after taking a look at a few examples I think the white pearl will be classy, match the frets/hardware better, and just let the fretboard do the aesthetic talking. Hopefully I'll end up with a refined classic strat vibe juxtaposed over a modern design, and the color palette is my mom's sensibilities all day. And now we wait, meanwhile I am extremely excited. Like uncomfortably excited.


----------



## narad

Man, you guys are risky. Seem like cool specs though, so looking forward to hearing what you think of them.


----------



## Avedas

Sweet specs. Brave. I hope it turns out sick


----------



## glassmoon0fo

narad said:


> Man, you guys are risky. Seem like cool specs though, so looking forward to hearing what you think of them.



I feel like every time I step outside my front door is a risk, may as well take calculated ones in a direction I want to go. If I get a guitar that plays great, looks great and has a few minor flaws, I’ll report them to you guys so you can be upset for me  Real talk, I have had exceedingly good luck up to this point with my builds, and if it “sparks joy” (thank you Asian meme lady), I won’t go looking for a reason for it not to. But when it comes in I don’t mind giving a good honest review either, I’ll probably be happy either way.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

https://goo.gl/images/u6LB3V

I apparently missed the window to edit my last entry so excuse the double post, but I found this somewhere random on the web. Pretty damn close to my own specs, save the fret markers and headstock paint. Though I’m also willing to bet that sage is going to be slightly softer than the seafoam in the picture. OR, it could turn out like its actual namesake and look more green like the Fender sage paint code. It’s a SURPRISE.


----------



## sezna

For everybody's info, I asked some questions, here's some more intel:


> Thanks for reaching out!
> 
> Anyway, is the only pickup option for these the Tosin Fishmans? Would it be possible to get a different model or even other pickups?
> 
> The Space T model features the Greg Koch Fishman set. All other guitars come standard with Tosin’s Fishman set.
> 
> Is a tone knob an option?
> 
> We are currently discussing adding a tone knob on the 6-string model only.
> 
> How much would be communicated to me throughout the build process? With previous builds, I have gotten picture updates as it goes on.
> 
> Time-permitting. We are slammed right now getting things started and working hard to honor the lead times we posted. That said, if at some point you want an update, I’m sure we can accommodate!
> 
> 
> And, is the guitar neck-through? Set neck? Bolt-on? I saw some bolt ons at NAMM but I also don't see it specified on the website.
> 
> Set neck. The old Ibanez prototypes were bolt-ons, but there are no Abasi Concepts bolt-on models in existence at this time.
> 
> Let me know if you have any further questions!
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ivan Chopik


----------



## StevenC

glassmoon0fo said:


> https://goo.gl/images/u6LB3V
> 
> I apparently missed the window to edit my last entry so excuse the double post, but I found this somewhere random on the web. Pretty damn close to my own specs, save the fret markers and headstock paint. Though I’m also willing to bet that sage is going to be slightly softer than the seafoam in the picture. OR, it could turn out like its actual namesake and look more green like the Fender sage paint code. It’s a SURPRISE.


I've been hoping that the Sage colour is more like the blue Ibanez prototype.


----------



## jemfloral

StevenC said:


> I've been hoping that the Sage colour is more like the blue Ibanez prototype.



I think that you're looking more for the Chalk color. To my eyes, it appears that the Sage color is what was on the 6-string that they showed at NAMM.


----------



## StevenC

jemfloral said:


> I think that you're looking more for the Chalk color. To my eyes, it appears that the Sage color is what was on the 6-string that they showed at NAMM.


I'll email them at some point when I'm closer to ordering.


----------



## Hollowway

glassmoon0fo said:


> I feel like every time I step outside my front door is a risk, may as well take calculated ones in a direction I want to go. If I get a guitar that plays great, looks great and has a few minor flaws, I’ll report them to you guys so you can be upset for me  Real talk, I have had exceedingly good luck up to this point with my builds, and if it “sparks joy” (thank you Asian meme lady), I won’t go looking for a reason for it not to. But when it comes in I don’t mind giving a good honest review either, I’ll probably be happy either way.



I’m the opposite. I’ve had so many luthiers take my money and disappear that I’m petrified about ordering. I reeeeaaallly want to get one of these, but I’m going to wait it out, as well.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> I’m the opposite. I’ve had so many luthiers take my money and disappear that I’m petrified about ordering. I reeeeaaallly want to get one of these, but I’m going to wait it out, as well.



Everything goes as expected until it doesn't.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the jack placement is atrocious on the space tele.
MuH eRgOnOmIcS


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah after my experience with the Falbo run I'm gonna wait until these things are actually real and in the wild before I even consider ordering one.


----------



## jephjacques

jephjacques said:


> Yeah after my experience with the Falbo run I'm gonna wait until these things are actually real and in the wild before I even consider ordering one.



*two weeks from now*

ME: lol I ordered one


----------



## sezna

jephjacques said:


> Yeah after my experience with the Falbo run I'm gonna wait until these things are actually real and in the wild before I even consider ordering one.


I'm trying so hard not to order one. I've been waiting for this for years, but especially since Ivan said they're hammered just trying to make their deadlines...feels risky


----------



## jephjacques

I'm thinking of it like it's a new Jackson model- they announce it but it's not actually available for at least 9 months


----------



## BananaDemocracy

Well, obviously it’s ugly as sin

However, I think it’s great that both Tosin and Ibanez are reinventing the norm

Ibanez is my favorite guitar company and they’ve had the same body (the beautifully simple SS) forever

In a recent interview even Steve Van said he was hoping to see more new ideas outside the box

Here’s one to start! I’d love to try it. I’m not a AAL fan but I respect their novelty

Has anyone played one of these? 

My $.02


----------



## Avedas

I played a couple of the Falbos that were part of that Japan shipment last year. The two I played were great but the price was about double what it should have been.

I ran into some of the recent pre-NAMM models today though. I didn't bother playing them but they looked pretty damn sloppy for the 570000 JPY price tag.










It's a bit harder to see in that first pic but the frets and neck joint were a mess on both.


----------



## narad

Avedas said:


> I played a couple of the Falbos that were part of that Japan shipment last year. The two I played were great but the price was about double what it should have been.
> 
> I ran into some of the recent pre-NAMM models today though. I didn't bother playing them but they looked pretty damn sloppy for the 570000 JPY price tag.
> 
> It's a bit harder to see in that first pic but the frets and neck joint were a mess on both.



Eeek, those are some Invictus-level fret edges.

btw, were you doing the rounds for the Tokyo Guitar Fair?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Am I crazy or does it look like the edge of the fretboard was painted black? Definitely doesn't look bound.

All the talk of quality previously seems quaint now.


----------



## BigViolin

Who cares about quality? Hype and bullshit and shoddy guitars = Orders baby!!!


----------



## sezna

Why is everybody making it so hard to orde


ElysianGuitars said:


> Am I crazy or does it look like the edge of the fretboard was painted black? Definitely doesn't look bound.
> 
> All the talk of quality previously seems quaint now.


It looks like one of the side dots was painted over.


----------



## Avedas

narad said:


> btw, were you doing the rounds for the Tokyo Guitar Fair?


Nope, every time I find out about something cool I'm already booked solid


----------



## Randy

sezna said:


> It looks like one of the side dots was painted over.



Most likely burned through. My eye looks like a black binding that got sanded WAY back during the fret dress.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I don't think any of the abasi guitars had binding so it must be paint. Those fret ends are horrific.


----------



## lewis

i know some ordered and fair fucks to you but if i were any of you other interested buyers, i would wait this out if i were you/


----------



## JP Universe

I almost hit the order button but I just couldn’t justify the expense 

Instead I ordered something else to cure the gas, an Ibanez Jem FP. 

(Miniature guitar)  that will save me right? 

Oh BTW, for anyone interested you can request no inlays on your order.


----------



## Demiurge

lewis said:


> i know some ordered and fair fucks to you but if i were any of you other interested buyers, i would wait this out if i were you/



Unfortunately, it seems that some 'civilians' will have to throw themselves on the early-adopter grenade eventually.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Randy said:


> Most likely burned through. My eye looks like a black binding that got sanded WAY back during the fret dress.


Sanding through 1/16" of binding isn't an easy task. It looks like paint, it goes onto the body too, and that side dot is definitely painted over.


----------



## Randy

I'm still seeing binding, especially the part on the body. Looks like it was 1/16" thick and it was filed down, and the extra you're seeing on the body end is essentially it's original width.


----------



## BigViolin

I have zero problems with hackjob prototypes and maybe these should be judged as such. But until you can produce actual up to snuff instruments at the facility that will build out orders with the people that will be doing the builds then you have no business taking orders.

Where's the Grover builds? Jeez, how dumb would it be to have 5 or so clean builds out of Grovers place to show? It's not like they wouldn't sell in an hour.


----------



## A-Branger

KnightBrolaire said:


> the jack placement is atrocious on the space tele.
> MuH eRgOnOmIcS



prob was still a test prototype, as all of the Abasi in the wild right now.

All the ones at NAMM had different features. Like all have different set of tunners (maybe hacked from old Tosin's guitars, or spare parts laying around to finish them quick).... But also there was 2-3 different control plate routings/designs on the guitars


----------



## arhg

sezna said:


> You're in Europe though, you get all the EU dealers! I'm just excited there's finally a brand I like and don't have to import from Poland. _looks at Mayones_




Good lord! Indeed I am in Europe. Mayones had some slick builds.

Feel free to namedrop any and all other European builders you can think of.


----------



## narad

sezna said:


> You're in Europe though, you get all the EU dealers! I'm just excited there's finally a brand I like and don't have to import from Poland. _looks at Mayones_



You think so, until you're in Europe. Get ready for 20% VAT. Cheaper to buy a Mayones from Europe and import it to the US honestly.


----------



## Jonathan20022

BigViolin said:


> I have zero problems with hackjob prototypes and maybe these should be judged as such. But until you can produce actual up to snuff instruments at the facility that will build out orders with the people that will be doing the builds then you have no business taking orders.
> 
> Where's the Grover builds? Jeez, how dumb would it be to have 5 or so clean builds out of Grovers place to show? It's not like they wouldn't sell in an hour.



Not to offer an excuse for this kind of behavior, because it should never be a reasonable excuse. But in this case I'm a tad more forgiving, because Tosin probably lost and has quite a few dollars tied up between Frank and the case between them. He launched the first Abasi venture with Falbo builds to present at NAMM 2018, and while it'd make more sense to hold off another 4 - 5 months to present fully Grover builds, missing NAMM is kind of a big deal.

I'm certainly not going to be a first adopter here, but I'd give them a chance to *properly* launch before giving them too much flack all things considered.



narad said:


> You think so, until you're in Europe. Get ready for 20% VAT. Cheaper to buy a Mayones from Europe and import it to the US honestly.



You're not even kidding, I think it cost me like 2400 US or something for one of my Duvells a few years back and the import was just about $150 or so. Was a bit over 3k new.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Randy said:


> I'm still seeing binding, especially the part on the body. Looks like it was 1/16" thick and it was filed down, and the extra you're seeing on the body end is essentially it's original width.


Have it on good authority there was never binding on that neck.


----------



## sezna

arhg said:


> Good lord! Indeed I am in Europe. Mayones had some slick builds.
> 
> Feel free to namedrop any and all other European builders you can think of.


Mayones, Skervesen, SMP (kinda new to me - unsure of their rep), Blackat, Aristides, Daemoness (long wait of course), Strandberg (custom no longer an option), Ran (seems to be defunct right now), Waghorn, Markline, Carillion...

Just off the top of my head. There's more I can't recall right now of course.

So who has actually ordered an Abasi here? They said they're swamped, somebody must have.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

ElysianGuitars said:


> Have it on good authority there was never binding on that neck.



From the books it looks kind of cool, an easy way to mimic black binding by painting it on.


----------



## littlebadboy

littlebadboy said:


> Excerpt from Guitar World *article*:





littlebadboy said:


> The Tele-referencing Larada Space T, offered at a base price of $2,469, features stainless steel, standard frets; a Wilkinson 3-Saddle T-style bridge; Hipshot Vintage tuners; a bone nut; Fishman Greg Koch signature pickups; 3-way switching; 1 volume + 1 tone; dual voice mode; a 10-inch – 14-inch compound radius and a 25.5-inch scale length.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somewhere there:
> 
> 
> Thoughts?




Looks like there were interesting demos...


----------



## diagrammatiks

John Mayer’s other guitar player used one on Ellen

It’d be funny if he took all this time to design a proggy djenty boy 8 string and it’s the dildo headstock Tele that becomes big.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> John Mayer’s other guitar player used one on Ellen
> 
> It’d be funny if he took all this time to design a proggy djenty boy 8 string and it’s the dildo headstock Tele that becomes big.



Wait, so the 6-string, "classic" variant is the most popular and not the super niche one? Whodathunkit.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wait, so the 6-string, "classic" variant is the most popular and not the super niche one? Whodathunkit.



But it’s a really ugly telecaster man.


----------



## narad

It's growing on me. When it's sitting on on someone's leg all the ugly functional bits disappear and it looks pretty cool IMO.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> But it’s a really ugly telecaster man.



Dude, have you seen how big the ugly Tele market is? Shit is wild...ly ugly.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

People always hating on ugly like it doesn’t make your girlfriend a saint for staying with you  I love a classic tele, but there’s absolutely no reason for a guitar to feel like you’re playing a bag of remotes anymore, and fresh looks is part of better design. Like, I’ll drive a ‘65 Mustang for the looks alone but fuck I’m not going to the next state over in it, feel me?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

glassmoon0fo said:


> People always hating on ugly like it doesn’t make your girlfriend a saint for staying with you  I love a classic tele, but there’s absolutely no reason for a guitar to feel like you’re playing a bag of remotes anymore, and fresh looks is part of better design. Like, I’ll drive a ‘65 Mustang for the looks alone but fuck I’m not going to the next state over in it, feel me?



Slapping a bevel on something and having a famous guitarist shred on it does not an ergonomic guitar make. 

It's not like you can't get a Tele with a bevel/forearm/comfort-cuts in 2019. 

That said, this is probably the most interesting/compelling guitar to come out of those clusterfuck.


----------



## xzacx

I kinda like the look of this Tele, but then again I think actual Teles are ugly. (Not necessarily blackguards, but things like paisleys/sparkles and the type of shit guys that like Teles tend to be into.)


----------



## BigViolin

I'll admit, If Tom Quayle and Greg Koch handed me a wet, rotten 2x4 with a rusty nail sticking out of it and said this is what you should be playing, I'd at least pause.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the only way i'd get a space tele is if it's headless. that body shape screams NO HEADSTOCKS to me.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Only thing holding me back is the availability of a 7 string


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Dude, have you seen how big the ugly Tele market is? Shit is wild...ly ugly.


 
Ya but the groups on Facebook are super conservative about the shape. 

But I agree with the above. If this was headless I’m all about it.


----------



## Albake21

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Only thing holding me back is the availability of a 7 string


Same. I'd honestly order today if they took 7 string orders.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Albake21 said:


> Same. I'd honestly order today if they took 7 string orders.



It's okay though. I don't want to get oen until people start actually receiving completed instruments


----------



## jephjacques

jephjacques said:


> *two weeks from now*
> 
> ME: lol I ordered one



it's been 11 days and I still haven't ordered one, willpower goin strong


----------



## iamaom

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's not like you can't get a Tele with a bevel/forearm/comfort-cuts in 2019.


Pretty sure warmoth offers those.


----------



## Avedas

diagrammatiks said:


> Ya but the groups on Facebook are super conservative about the shape.


Aren't those typically Christian church guitarists who will also never use any amp except a Vox AC30?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Avedas said:


> Aren't those typically Christian church guitarists who will also never use any amp except a Vox AC30?



Ya I dunno. I didn’t even show my salen for fear of being run out of town.


----------



## Avedas

diagrammatiks said:


> Ya I dunno. I didn’t even show my salen for fear of being run out of town.


I was at a shop with my drummer friend and he thought the Salens were disgusting, but then again he thinks the only guitars that exist are strats and LPs and everything else is for high school kids.


----------



## jemfloral

jephjacques said:


> it's been 11 days and I still haven't ordered one, willpower goin strong



@jephjacques don't get too cocky out there, still three days to give in!


----------



## Shoeless_jose

I would be all over that tele, if I have the money, I would replace the bridge though for the 6 saddle hipshot, just prefer a slightly more modern look to go with a guitar that is clearly meant to be more modern


----------



## diagrammatiks

I knew that space Tele look familiar.


----------



## Bearitone

diagrammatiks said:


> I knew that space Tele look familiar.



That body shape is actually rad.
Throw dual humbuckers and a reverse headstock (that isn’t massive) on that bitch and it would be tempting.


----------



## mystix




----------



## TedEH

Sure, there's some sick playing there... but I'd also like to nominate this for the worst thread title we've had in a while.


----------



## sezna

should probably be merged with the abasi thread, lol


----------



## mystix

TedEH said:


> Sure, there's some sick playing there... but I'd also like to nominate this for the worst thread title we've had in a while.



whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhy?


----------



## Wolfhorsky

Clickbait


----------



## Soya

TedEH said:


> Sure, there's some sick playing there... but I'd also like to nominate this for the worst thread title we've had in a while.



I disagree, it covers most of the big happenings in a several year old thread in one sentence. Which makes it the best title.


----------



## TedEH

Soya said:


> I disagree, it covers most of the big happenings in a several year old thread in one sentence. Which makes it the best title.


The comment is out of context now -> it was merged from a different thread.  The title at the time was just "siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick".


----------



## Soya

Ahhh I see, well then we are suddenly in agreement.


----------



## gunch

Max, Randy or Technomancer looking at that dumbass thread


----------



## jephjacques

important update:

still haven't ordered one


----------



## jemfloral

jephjacques said:


> important update:
> 
> still haven't ordered one



Stay strong!


----------



## Restarted

jemfloral said:


> Stay strong!


No. What is this heresy? I want to see NGDs and reviews.


----------



## jemfloral

We're just fooling around, @Restarted lol


----------



## Thaeon

I'm a bit late to the party on the pictures of the fretwork. I've been busy being a dad among other things. However, looks like they filed the fretboard while dressing the frets, not over sanding it. A file would cut through binding a bit easier. However, it doesn't look at all to me like binding. The fret ends look dangerous. I wouldn't be buying in until I saw an example of what they're shipping to people. I honestly feel like rushing a product to NAMM may have been as damaging to the brand image as everything else that's happened. I'd like to see the brand successful. There's some interesting innovation happening with them. They aren't for me. But I've enjoyed watching the product be developed. The pictures are making me nervous for the people who have ordered them though.


----------



## jephjacques

Restarted said:


> No. What is this heresy? I want to see NGDs and reviews.


ok you go first and report back


----------



## JP Universe

I’ve cooled off, no NGD’s here. I soaked myself in the hype for a few days then let it continue on to the other folk.

Hoping someone takes the plunge


----------



## cip 123

Shoulda used the spacetele here at least


----------



## lurè

He's Tosin from the future


----------



## cardinal

So I spec’d one out with what I’d prefer (mahogany body, maple/maple neck, that chartreuse color), and the price is not so terrible if the guitar quality is high IMHO. It’s less than I’ve paid for other guitars, that’s for sure. If there was a straight scale, Floyd option I might be in a lot of trouble. But fan frets are a no-go for me, and hardtails are boooooooring, so I’m safe on two fronts.


----------



## jephjacques

the way he wanders in through a fuckin smoke machine to shred and just leaves, lmfao


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Wtf just happened, I wasn’t ready


----------



## jephjacques

if you burn sage, eye of newt, and a set of Fishman Fluences inside a circle of salt, it will summon Abasi to shred


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Prolly costs like 48 MP though


----------



## Ramburger

Has anyone gotten one of these yet? They added shell pink as an option now my body is telling me yes but my mind is saying no.


----------



## Seabeast2000

glassmoon0fo said:


> Wtf just happened, I wasn’t ready



That's just shy of a funny SNL skit.


----------



## Albake21

Ramburger said:


> Has anyone gotten one of these yet? They added shell pink as an option now my body is telling me yes but my mind is saying no.


If they add a 7 string, I'll jump on it.


----------



## Avedas

Matte shell pink, white hardware, roasted flame maple neck/board as a 7 string. Would be a fun way to burn a lot of money.


----------



## jephjacques

Even more fun if you actually get the guitar! ayyyyyyyyyy


----------



## jemfloral

Has anybody heard about their builds yet? Figured we'd have seen some sort of update by now from someone... maybe not though


----------



## GunpointMetal

That one dude who plays everything as natural harmonics has one...


----------



## Minute Man

No update since ordered mid March.
Starting to worry...


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Email them?


----------



## Jonathan20022

Luthier: "Short, optimistic, estimated build time"
Customer: *Orders one and waits half of the build time*
Luthier: "It's not ready yet"
Customer:


----------



## AmoryDrive

Buddy emailed them for an update (he ordered a 6, I ordered an 8) and sounds like everything is on track. Got sent this photo as well


----------



## cardinal

Well, I guess they can cut bodies. That’s quite a stack they have going.


----------



## Minute Man

That hand even looks like Tosin’s!


----------



## prlgmnr

I don't know what you mean, I'm sure anyone's thumb could go like that.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

prlgmnr said:


> I don't know what you mean, I'm sure anyone's thumb could go like that.



Yeah, it's not like it's a low serial number.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Delete if this is inappropriate, but was there ever any verdict to the situation between Frank & Tosin?


----------



## sezna

Chris Bowsman said:


> Delete if this is inappropriate, but was there ever any verdict to the situation between Frank & Tosin?


just both sides pointing fingers at each other. I think the majority sided with Tosin's side. I hope this doesn't send the thread off the rails lol


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Sorry... I’m deleting my comment.

Damn, guess that’s not an option.


----------



## sezna

Chris Bowsman said:


> Sorry... I’m deleting my comment.
> 
> Damn, guess that’s not an option.


No worries. I'll quickly say something else!

Shell pink sure is trendy right now, huh?


----------



## MerlinTKD

sezna said:


> No worries. I'll quickly say something else!
> 
> Shell pink sure is trendy right now, huh?


 
I've noticed that too! Not a bad color, for sure, but I'm more partial to blues myself (the color, not the music, though the music is fine too )


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Shell pink, white guard, rosewood board is a killer look for a Strat.


----------



## Avedas

Shell pink and Daphne blue are the best colors


----------



## jwade

Loch Ness Green would like to have words with you.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

All the 50’s era Fender colors are awesome. Before all that metal flake tomfoolery.


----------



## Albake21

Chris Bowsman said:


> All the 50’s era Fender colors are awesome. Before all that metal flake tomfoolery.


Hey you take that back! All of these colors with the metal flake look fantastic.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Albake21 said:


> Hey you take that back! All of these colors with the metal flake look fantastic.



Perhaps "tomfoolery" was too strong a word to use. 

While I enjoy the fancy shiny finishes, there's something about the old, plasticy looking seafoam green and shell pink that is just delightful.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Jason Richardson got an 8 string Abasi.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxdd4lfAJ5v/


----------



## cardinal

Cool. Really rooting for this brand to get up and going. The design looks killer. Just need them to get more established so that I'm comfortable with an order and for them to open up the options again (of course: straight frets and Floyd are necessary!).


----------



## Apex1rg7x

Lorcan Ward said:


> Jason Richardson got an 8 string Abasi.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxdd4lfAJ5v/



That dude is insane. His playing is so effortless.


----------



## jephjacques

It's cool that all the Famouses are getting their abasis, primo marketing on their part, but have we seen any other ones in the wild yet?


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> It's cool that all the Famouses are getting their abasis, primo marketing on their part, but have we seen any other ones in the wild yet?


Or even any guitars that weren't show guitars from NAMM.


----------



## Albake21

Seriously what's going on with actual customers? I figured we'd see something by now.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Albake21 said:


> Seriously what's going on with actual customers? I figured we'd see something by now.



My bet is on the curse. They have at least three yaks and a goat to sacrifice to Aeshma and two chickens to Sabnock before a pristine one can ship to a not-rockstar.


----------



## Fred the Shred

I actually have spotted ancient symbols pertaining Zoroastrian tradition in AAL's shows, cleverly hidden in mundane things such as pedalboards and cymbals. I shall now head to the P&CE to post my theory explaining how Tosin as his evil Aeshma worshippers are secretly controlling world events with no factual evidence whatsoever.


----------



## Jason B

What’s sad is all the evidence that everything is _out_ of Tosin’s control.


----------



## Fred the Shred

To be honest, many things are so ambitious in terms of timelines and production amounts that you have a lot that can go wrong. Should they have decided to slow the pace to get the machine going smoothly, that would be a wise course of action IMO.


----------



## Empryrean

Outstanding that Jason is playing it in classical position so now I can finally gauge how ergonomic the shape actually is. Thanks for posting!


----------



## glassmoon0fo

They quoted 3-6 months, I'm betting 6-9 months at least. Not because I dont trust em but because I DO trust them to not send out straight up lemons. If they end up taking more time, I'm great with that.


----------



## jemfloral

100% agreed on the point that they should be honest with the quality and make sure they're not sending out anything less than perfect guitars, with the history here especially


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I’ll be in Cali this summer so I’m wondering if I could try one? Idk if Tosin or Ivan will see this but I’m in Ireland so it’s unlikely I’ll be able to see one on this island for a couple years.


----------



## cip 123

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I’ll be in Cali this summer so I’m wondering if I could try one? Idk if Tosin or Ivan will see this but I’m in Ireland so it’s unlikely I’ll be able to see one on this island for a couple years.


You can see one in as little as 10 weeks...apparently...if you order one.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

cip 123 said:


> You can see one in as little as 10 weeks...apparently...if you order one.


It’s a deal if you lend me £1000


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I’ll be in Cali this summer so I’m wondering if I could try one? Idk if Tosin or Ivan will see this but I’m in Ireland so it’s unlikely I’ll be able to see one on this island for a couple years.


Provided these actually happen I can see myself getting one, so I'll keep you posted


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

StevenC said:


> Provided these actually happen I can see myself getting one, so I'll keep you posted


Thanks Steven


----------



## Jonathan20022

In general what harm is there in giving yourself a normal lead time + 1 - 2 months. So you have clearance to not disappoint customers, and perhaps even deliver sooner than they expect. Guitar players are clearly okay with waiting close to a year for a custom if other brands are any indicator, so advertising 2 and a half months to 3 months for a custom guitar and then failing to deliver on that makes you look Infinitely worse.

Maybe one day you can refine the process and deliver something that quickly, but that takes a hell of a long time and research to understand. Like it or not, this is very similar to how Kickstarters operate.

There's always this estimated delivery date and I think of the 5 kickstarters I have supported not a single one has delivered on the date promised. Because most of them are gathering money to THEN take it to production, they don't take into account the volume load, imperfections, revisions to design, functional changes to the product. These are all common issues with mass production that entrepreneurs underestimate.

The only saving grace here is that Grover Jackson is a very reputable brand and I highly doubt they overpromised with their amount of experience. But I guess we'll see at this point.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Fred the Shred said:


> I actually have spotted ancient symbols pertaining Zoroastrian tradition in AAL's shows, cleverly hidden in mundane things such as pedalboards and cymbals. I shall now head to the P&CE to post my theory explaining how Tosin as his evil Aeshma worshippers are secretly controlling world events with no factual evidence whatsoever.



Wait, is AAL touring with Tool now?


----------



## spudmunkey

Jonathan20022 said:


> In general what harm is there in giving yourself a normal lead time + 1 - 2 months. So you have clearance to not disappoint customers, and perhaps even deliver sooner than they expect.



"WTF? I was told my guitar wouldn't ship until June, but it's shipping now in May and I'm still out of the country for a week and my guitar will (select one: sit in customs and might get sent back, sit on my porch until someone steals it or it gets damaged by weather, or will sit in the shipper's warehouse and they charge me for holding it)."


----------



## Dayn

spudmunkey said:


> "WTF? I was told my guitar wouldn't ship until June, but it's shipping now in May and I'm still out of the country for a week and my guitar will (select one: sit in customs and might get sent back, sit on my porch until someone steals it or it gets damaged by weather, or will sit in the shipper's warehouse and they charge me for holding it)."


Ugh, I have flashbacks now about a similar thing that happened to me. You tell people that you need to make an appointment first, and they go ahead and get pissed that the courier they arranged without telling you couldn't deliver. FFS.


----------



## Jonathan20022

spudmunkey said:


> "WTF? I was told my guitar wouldn't ship until June, but it's shipping now in May and I'm still out of the country for a week and my guitar will (select one: sit in customs and might get sent back, sit on my porch until someone steals it or it gets damaged by weather, or will sit in the shipper's warehouse and they charge me for holding it)."



I can't tell if you're being serious

But if anyone ships you a custom instrument or anything expensive and skimps on the signature requirement so that it's *left on your porch*, then that's no one's fault but the shipper's. I've never had issues requesting a different ship by date in the case where I've actually been out of the country or not available to receive my package. And all major US shipping services offer a hold at location/vacation hold service.

If you're too busy to plan for and receive a custom guitar, maybe don't order one in the first place. If anyone ends up thinking they have no way of mitigating these fairly inconsequential scenarios, then it's on your own lack of diligence to find solutions to the problem.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jonathan20022 said:


> I can't tell if you're being serious
> 
> But if anyone ships you a custom instrument or anything expensive and skimps on the signature requirement so that it's *left on your porch*, then that's no one's fault but the shipper's. I've never had issues requesting a different ship by date in the case where I've actually been out of the country or not available to receive my package. And all major US shipping services offer a hold at location/vacation hold service.
> 
> If you're too busy to plan for and receive a custom guitar, maybe don't order one in the first place. If anyone ends up thinking they have no way of mitigating these fairly inconsequential scenarios, then it's on your own lack of diligence to find solutions to the problem.



Those services are only as good as the staff at the local hubs. 

I've requested holds and delivery day changes and there's about an 80/20 split of it actually happening as requested. 

I'm lucky enough to just about always have someone home and don't work "delivery hours" so it's not been too big of a deal.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

spudmunkey said:


> "WTF? I was told my guitar wouldn't ship until June, but it's shipping now in May and I'm still out of the country for a week and my guitar will (select one: sit in customs and might get sent back, sit on my porch until someone steals it or it gets damaged by weather, or will sit in the shipper's warehouse and they charge me for holding it)."



Guitar review soon...? Plz and thank u


----------



## Avedas

Jonathan20022 said:


> I can't tell if you're being serious
> 
> But if anyone ships you a custom instrument or anything expensive and skimps on the signature requirement so that it's *left on your porch*, then that's no one's fault but the shipper's. I've never had issues requesting a different ship by date in the case where I've actually been out of the country or not available to receive my package. And all major US shipping services offer a hold at location/vacation hold service.
> 
> If you're too busy to plan for and receive a custom guitar, maybe don't order one in the first place. If anyone ends up thinking they have no way of mitigating these fairly inconsequential scenarios, then it's on your own lack of diligence to find solutions to the problem.


I do find it absolutely insane that some American delivery companies will just leave your shit at your front door by default.


----------



## Soya

Im glad they do it, Im never home to sign for stuff otherwise


----------



## spudmunkey

Soya said:


> Im glad they do it, Im never home to sign for stuff otherwise



This. When I didn't work flexible hours, I'd constantly get home to find my packages locked in the apartment management office which open less than bankers' hours, or held at a local hub with equally short hours. Super annoying. that was when I started having packages sent to work, and now to that almost all the time.


----------



## Acme

What happened to the Isiah Sharkley-endorsement? All Abasi-related content have disappeared from his social media outlets.


----------



## Jason B

Maybe he noticed the brand never really existed...or made a more recent deal with one that exists...or he was yet another temporary NAMM facade stolen from Falbo’s shop.


----------



## Minute Man

Just send a mail asking for any updates and waiting. Anyone asked already?


----------



## jephjacques

There are some popping up on Reverb from Japan now, not sure if they're Grover Jackson ones or just the last of the Falbo units.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> There are some popping up on Reverb from Japan now, not sure if they're Grover Jackson ones or just the last of the Falbo units.



Those are all the original Falbo made units from last year. Says so in the descriptions.


----------



## jephjacques

Ah, ok! Didn't bother to click bc I'm lazy


----------



## Jason B

I’m waiting for round 2 of “Talked to Tosin on the phone; and promised I wouldn’t say anything about all the deposits being spent on wrestling DVDs and energy drinks.”


----------



## Avedas

jephjacques said:


> There are some popping up on Reverb from Japan now, not sure if they're Grover Jackson ones or just the last of the Falbo units.


Same ones that have been sitting in shops for a year and cost like $5000 lol. I don't see them moving for a very long time.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Avedas said:


> Same ones that have been sitting in shops for a year and cost like $5000 lol. I don't see them moving for a very long time.



Why is that, you think? 

The Japanese market is not afraid of expensive guitars, is it the quality or design?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

MaxOfMetal said:


> Why is that, you think?
> 
> The Japanese market is not afraid of expensive guitars, is it the quality or design?


Too many of them for the market, combined with Tosin basically crapping all over the guy who built them?


----------



## jephjacques

$2000 too expensive even by Japanese standards, imo


----------



## jemfloral

jephjacques said:


> $2000 too expensive even by Japanese standards, imo



This. $2000 extra for a wenge neck is a bit excessive for my tastes, but the Japan Bodens seem to sell pretty well over there despite the "custom" models being ridiculously overpriced vs the "J-standard" models, and the specs not being that significantly different.


----------



## Avedas

It's probably just a market thing. All the "weird" import guitars have a lot of markup and sit around forever. The fact you can walk into any of the major shops and see entire floors and walls lined with $5000-$20000 custom shop, private stock, special reserve etc. guitars from every reputable brand and luthier will take attention away from the two Abasis hanging in the corner behind a bunch of other guitars. Probably the only reason Strandberg did so well here was the amount of promotion put into the Japanese market and big local artists like Leda endorsing.


----------



## Jason B

ElysianGuitars said:


> Too many of them for the market, combined with Tosin basically crapping all over the guy who built them?



Frank’s work was apparently good enough to pass off as Grover Jackson’s at the last NAMM. Not sure how Grover feels about that, though.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Just got an update on my build, they included a little video which was nice.

Grover says pickups arrived 3 weeks later than they had hoped, and they're still waiting on more bridge saddles which will arrive middle of the month. 8 string orders will go out first followed by 6/Space Ts.

So a few weeks more wait than the initial 10-12 weeks it seems.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

AmoryDrive said:


> Just got an update on my build, they included a little video which was nice.
> 
> Grover says pickups arrived 3 weeks later than they had hoped, and they're still waiting on more bridge saddles which will arrive middle of the month. 8 string orders will go out first followed by 6/Space Ts.
> 
> So a few weeks more wait than the initial 10-12 weeks it seems.



Any chance you could post the video?


----------



## AmoryDrive

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Any chance you could post the video?



Yes, let me just make this post so I have the minimum post count to post links...


----------



## AmoryDrive

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WG3C7Ud85VWSidwxSvs7YVz8n8I_KCi5


----------



## Albake21

AmoryDrive said:


> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WG3C7Ud85VWSidwxSvs7YVz8n8I_KCi5


That link goes straight to Abasi's site for me.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Albake21 said:


> That link goes straight to Abasi's site for me.



The link is weird, I have to copy the text and paste it to actually get it to go to the video


----------



## ElysianGuitars

That's a whole lot of stuff not even close to finish for them to only be a few weeks past the 10-12 week window. We're already 14 weeks since preorders opened on March 1, and they're not even gluing fretboards on yet, but supposedly only a few weeks away? I hope they don't rush them out, that's asking for problems.


----------



## AmoryDrive

I'm guessing glue up and final assembly are in a different area? Waiting for bridge saddles wouldn't be a hold up if those were the farthest they've gotten with assembly...

I don't mind if it takes longer, I've waited 2-3 months longer for builds before and I was initially skeptical of a 10-12 week turn anyways. More time to pad up the gear budget lol


----------



## Albake21

They're looking pretty great! If the reception is good on these, I'm going to heavily consider ordering a 7 string when they release this summer.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

AmoryDrive said:


> I'm guessing glue up and final assembly are in a different area? Waiting for bridge saddles wouldn't be a hold up if those were the farthest they've gotten with assembly...
> 
> I don't mind if it takes longer, I've waited 2-3 months longer for builds before and I was initially skeptical of a 10-12 week turn anyways. More time to pad up the gear budget lol


Surely if they had gotten that far they'd have shown it in the video. They're still CNC'ing necks. The stuff they showed is still very early in the process.


----------



## Jonathan20022

ElysianGuitars said:


> That's a whole lot of stuff not even close to finish for them to only be a few weeks past the 10-12 week window. We're already 14 weeks since preorders opened on March 1, and they're not even gluing fretboards on yet, but supposedly only a few weeks away? I hope they don't rush them out, that's asking for problems.



It's an enthusiastic timeline, sure. But why weren't you nit picking when Frank exceeded the same window? Or when any legitimate criticisms were levied against him? 

I get that he's a buddy of yours but man, do a better job of hiding where you stand. Frank had an entire year to deliver on his builds other than his small batch sent overseas, I think anyone who's been around the forum long enough can tell you that these things were probably not going to be wrapped up that quickly. 

There's a nice degree of transparency so far if that video is anything to go by. It's certainly something nice to see a willingness for insight on their progress. Definitely better than the guy(s) responsible for said instruments spending time on forums like this one and social media being defensive over critiques. So I'm more inclined to let the luthiers work, in the same fashion I did when I gave Frank the benefit of the doubt after talking to him and asking to photograph his guitars at NAMM 2018. If we're really going to sit here and start being paranoid when Grover is going to run over the estimated wait time then I'd like to see the same degree of scrutiny towards your friend for all the missteps on his end.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Jonathan20022 said:


> It's an enthusiastic timeline, sure. But why weren't you nit picking when Frank exceeded the same window? Or when any legitimate criticisms were levied against him?
> 
> I get that he's a buddy of yours but man, do a better job of hiding where you stand. Frank had an entire year to deliver on his builds other than his small batch sent overseas, I think anyone who's been around the forum long enough can tell you that these things were probably not going to be wrapped up that quickly.
> 
> There's a nice degree of transparency so far if that video is anything to go by. It's certainly something nice to see a willingness for insight on their progress. Definitely better than the guy(s) responsible for said instruments spending time on forums like this one and social media being defensive over critiques. So I'm more inclined to let the luthiers work, in the same fashion I did when I gave Frank the benefit of the doubt after talking to him and asking to photograph his guitars at NAMM 2018. If we're really going to sit here and start being paranoid when Grover is going to run over the estimated wait time then I'd like to see the same degree of scrutiny towards your friend for all the missteps on his end.


It's okay if you don't value my opinion, but I have a lot of experience in this industry and production, and I speak what I feel is the truth. Frank has nothing to do with this, those guitars are still in very early stages. Regarding Frank, since you decided to bring his name into this... Frank was shipping tons of guitars, they're still for sale in Japan, so there was no indication he was late, until Tosin decided to say there was. We're 14 weeks from pre-orders starting, with a 10-12 week build, and it's pretty obvious no guitars have gone out, unlike Frank who was shipping guitars at this point.


And I really don't buy the hardware excuse. Fishman certainly wouldn't be 3 weeks late, and I'd imagine with all the hardware we know Frank bought, the bridges excuse is baloney.

Don't forget, Tosin stole the business from his partner 7 months in.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Well without concrete dates there's no way to contest Frank's tardiness in delivery, but there is quite a wealth of information in this 158 page thread. I think a fair assumption can be drawn from what some quick backtracking through the thread shows 



jephjacques said:


> It's nothing super exciting, just a couple stacks of neck blanks. I'll share if I get the okay from Frank.



^ Skimming the 20 pages of comments between NAMM and when shit went south shows April which is 10 - 12 Weeks after NAMM also yielding nothing but unshaped blanks?



narad said:


> Just wanted to bump this to ask if any of these guitars finished up? I kind of lost track but weren't these announced in ~Feb-ish with like 3 month leads?



Middle of May (past 3 month lead time) with no updates..



Takk said:


> First batch has landed on Japan. Price will be around 600,000 JPY.
> I can see some rough/dirty edges and paintings on them but the seller (Ikebe) says "because they are hand-maid guitars"...
> https://shop.plaza.rakuten.co.jp/ikebe/diary/detail/201805310001/



And delivery of the first batch end of May/early June (Not a single customer guitar) a full month past the original estimated lead time. The batch wasn't exactly flawless either from what I remember from first hand accounts of people living near the shops in Japan and analyzing the shop photos posted here. VVV



>



I know it's easy to forget especially nowadays with people who have short memories and seemingly aren't willing to do a bit of research. But to my knowledge not a single consumer received a custom build, and all builds at that point went to a retailer overseas with some of those in less than stellar condition?

So let's not downplay the events nor ignore the facts, of which is apparently a smaller part of the bigger picture that will never see the light of day.

Like I said, let Grover do their job. If they deliver crap and end up months away from their original estimate with no customer builds delivered feel free to dump on them. But I seem to recall a lot of support from Falbo in lieu of delays and issues like the ones I pointed out. So let's get some real world examples out to the public before going for the throat, which is reasonable IMO.

If anything the instruments Grover made that were at NAMM this year didn't have compounds that were too hard to just wipe off before customers saw them.


----------



## Randy

ElysianGuitars said:


> Fishman certainly wouldn't be 3 weeks late



No dog in this fight but I had a Fishman order come in two months late recently. Not sure what's going on over there but that part isn't far fetched.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Jonathan20022 said:


> If anything the instruments Grover made that were at NAMM this year didn't have compounds that were too hard to just wipe off before customers saw them.


The issues they did have were worse than compounds.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Just gonna ignore the rest eh?



ElysianGuitars said:


> The issues they did have were worse than compounds.



I mean if we're being real here, all 2019 NAMM info starts pouring into this thread on page 134. And funnily enough you tried giving credit to Frank for everything sans paint job until Tosin clarified that the only Frank build was in fact the Space Tele.



ElysianGuitars said:


> That Tele style one definitely is one Frank was working on. Would not be surprised if the rest are repainted Falbo's as well, they look like the previous style bevel.





animalsasleader said:


> None of these are Falbo builds, except for the Tele, which we began with Frank last year.



Then all the flaws you're referencing are posted on page 137. And the reception to what are minor but definitely unacceptable flaws, is pretty lukewarm. Because if we're comparing leftover plastic and minor paint mishaps (see below) to the guitars Frank thought were acceptable to ship across seas, they're absolutely minor in comparison.



KnightBrolaire said:


> I just got sent some pics of the new abasi builds from Namm:
> looks like fret sprout on the maple fretboard, plastic still on the pickup, weird paint issues around the neck joints and control cavity, some paint bubbles.



Minor enough that quite a few folks say they aren't deal breakers considering these were probably rushed NAMM builds all of which are seemingly being played by Tosin or artists he's signing on. I got to hold and play the Wine Red 7 that went to Taranto and that Multiscale Blue 6, and there was some minor fret sprout but nothing I could immediately point out, they were pretty awesome guitars. Everyone likes to talk about fretwork, but they'll stay silent when their exotic fretboard custom shrinks in the winter if they live in an area that experiences a winter, and they'll have to take it to a trusted person to file the ends down.

So yeah, please reference the wealth of information in the thread instead of just commenting vaguely and weirdly portraying events and people differently than how they were. 

For reference @iWantedAnAbasi cited a 5 - 8 week turnaround time directly from Frank


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Jonathan20022 said:


> Just gonna ignore the rest eh?
> 
> 
> 
> I mean if we're being real here, all 2019 NAMM info starts pouring into this thread on page 134. And funnily enough you tried giving credit to Frank for everything sans paint job until Tosin clarified that the only Frank build was in fact the Space Tele.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then all the flaws you're referencing are posted on page 137. And the reception to what are minor but definitely unacceptable flaws, is pretty lukewarm. Because if we're comparing leftover plastic and minor paint mishaps (see below) to the guitars Frank thought were acceptable to ship across seas, they're absolutely minor in comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> Minor enough that quite a few folks say they aren't deal breakers considering these were probably rushed NAMM builds all of which are seemingly being played by Tosin or artists he's signing on. I got to hold and play the Wine Red 7 that went to Taranto and that Multiscale Blue 6, and there was some minor fret sprout but nothing I could immediately point out, they were pretty awesome guitars. Everyone likes to talk about fretwork, but they'll stay silent when their exotic fretboard custom shrinks in the winter if they live in an area that experiences a winter, and they'll have to take it to a trusted person to file the ends down.
> 
> So yeah, please reference the wealth of information in the thread instead of just commenting vaguely and weirdly portraying events and people differently than how they were.


Most all of the guitars at NAMM had Frank's heel, not Grover's. They were built by Frank and finished by Grover, or did you miss that whole thing about Grover changing the neck heel and details of the top carve? Tosin was not being honest there, like they're not being honest about the delays. There was more that just finish flaws in those guitars, there was bad fretwork, bad neck scrapes (which Frank got a ton of crap for by the way), and just obvious signs of rushing all over.

How do you bring guitars with fret sprout to NAMM? Shrinking is one thing, doing nothing about it for NAMM? Fretboards don't shrink like that overnight, and winter NAMM is in the same part of the country, the weather didn't change suddenly.

It's nice to see the excuse phase of Abasi 2.0 is well under way though  They really should be quoting realistic build times, that is the crux of the matter here (and 5-8 weeks is not realistic either, for reference Collings quotes 3-6 months for electrics, 6 months for acoustics, and they have a massive factory with over 100 employees). That video showed they're actually way behind. You want to bring everything else into it, be my guest, but I'm not going to keep rehashing after this, as my comment that spurred this thread had nothing to do with Frank and everything to do with the current reality of Abasi Guitars. Bridge hardware and pickups is not a hold up at the point these guitars are at, they certainly know how the guitars go together with the bridges already, so even if it were delayed, they can get all the way to the end of the build without it. They showed they're still over a month away on even the most complete builds in that video. Enough with the whataboutism already.


----------



## MerlinTKD

Lotta upset over guitars that haven't hit the market yet...


----------



## Jonathan20022

Any proof of any of those statements? I don't intend on spending more of my saturday on he said she said with you if the discussion is going nowhere. It's pretty hilarious that you're blaming Tosin for being dishonest when he's plainly thrown out that statement, so if he is in fact lying that should be an easy thing to prove if you have any basis to absolutely deny what he stated.

I find it hard to believe the folks of SSO missed all those things you're pointing out when their booth was as crowded as it was and all the builds were on open view 360 degrees for open photography. I'm also not making excuses for Grover/Abasi, see below since you're forgetting my stance.



Literally fucking me last page said:


> Like I said, let Grover do their job. If they deliver crap and end up months away from their original estimate with no customer builds delivered feel free to dump on them. But I seem to recall a lot of support from Falbo in lieu of delays and issues like the ones I pointed out. So let's get some real world examples out to the public before going for the throat, which is reasonable IMO.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Jonathan20022 said:


> Any proof of any of those statements? I don't intend on spending more of my saturday on he said she said with you if the discussion is going nowhere. It's pretty hilarious that you're blaming Tosin for being dishonest when he's plainly thrown out that statement, so if he is in fact lying that should be an easy thing to prove if you have any basis to absolutely deny what he stated.
> 
> I find it hard to believe the folks of SSO missed all those things you're pointing out when their booth was as crowded as it was and all the builds were on open view 360 degrees for open photography. I'm also not making excuses for Grover/Abasi, see below since you're forgetting my stance.


The proof to that statement is that they made a big deal about the neck heel changing. Why would Grover make guitars with the old heel when they made it a point to change it? The proof to the bridges and pickup statement is that they've put together these guitars, they know how everything fits already. They are through prototyping. They made a video that doesn't show a single guitar in finish, and if I remember correctly not even a fretboard glued up.

A lot of people miss a lot of problems, not everyone has a trained eye or knows what to look for. There were plenty of people who didn't miss them, that's why we have picture evidence.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Who knows, I certainly don't but it could very well have been builds developed prior to producing that new heel being used to fill their booth. High probability when there were issues apparent when builds are rushed to put together a booth at a trade show, but I have no evidence to back that up and neither do you to disprove the claim Tosin made evidently. So we're going off of assumptions at this point.

And I'm gonna hit you with a hard doubt that we missed those issues you're referencing that weren't photographed. I spoke to my experience and that's all I can provide contextually, all I'm saying is to give the new folks the same opportunity to deliver builds before we tear them apart. Something you gave your friend completely, but you're at the ready to shit on the successors for a single delay when Frank didn't deliver a single customer guitar and missed the mark on a 5 - 8 week lead time


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Jonathan20022 said:


> Who knows, I certainly don't but it could very well have been builds developed prior to producing that new heel being used to fill their booth. High probability when there were issues apparent when builds are rushed to put together a booth at a trade show, but I have no evidence to back that up and neither do you to disprove the claim Tosin made evidently. So we're going off of assumptions at this point.
> 
> And I'm gonna hit you with a hard doubt that we missed those issues you're referencing that weren't photographed. I spoke to my experience and that's all I can provide contextually, all I'm saying is to give the new folks the same opportunity to deliver builds before we tear them apart. Something you gave your friend completely, but you're at the ready to shit on the successors for a single delay when Frank didn't deliver a single customer guitar and missed the mark on a 5 - 8 week lead time


There were many builds in progress when Tosin ransacked Frank's shop, many of those made it to NAMM. I don't have any more to say on this. The reality is what it is.


----------



## cardinal

Ok we get it, these got screwed up last time around and man I hope these don't go down in flames this time around.


----------



## MrWulf

_Everything proceed to goes down in flames_


----------



## Hollowway

So, the Grover builds are screwed up? I may have gotten lost in the recent discussion, but I always thought Grover Jackson was a well respected, and good, luthier.


----------



## cardinal

Hollowway said:


> So, the Grover builds are screwed up? I may have gotten lost in the recent discussion, but I always thought Grover Jackson was a well respected, and good, luthier.



People are arguing over whether the Grover builds are too far behind schedule and whether this is somehow comparable to the Falbo situation.


----------



## Hollowway

cardinal said:


> People are arguing over whether the Grover builds are too far behind schedule and whether this is somehow comparable to the Falbo situation.


Ah, ok. But the builds themselves, as far as we can tell, are good?


----------



## frank falbo

Yep. I watched the video. As far as I can tell everything looks fine; guitars should be fine. I’m not privy to what any of their setbacks or delays are about, but there’s nothing alarming in the video.

Several people sent me photos and video of the stuff at NAMM, and I know what I saw with my own eyes, but I wouldn’t put NAMM rush guitars under equal scrutiny as production guitars.


----------



## spudmunkey

NeoCon is a giant furniture show in Chicago this next week. The slap-together, not-yet-ready-for-prime-time pieces that wont be ready for a year has become a meme. Prototypes held together with duct tape and hot glue, pieces Express overnight air-freighted for thousands of dollars and showing up minutes before the show, etc. Some of them never even _get_ to production.


----------



## Bdtunn

If only namm was on the same dates and same place every year, boy that would make things easier..............


----------



## Randy

Hollowway said:


> Ah, ok. But the builds themselves, as far as we can tell, are good?



Some of the Grover builds (supposedly) were at NAMM and they had flaws, I believe that's where that part of the conversation came from.

Grover is obviously very respected and very accomplished, there's no arguing that. That said I *have* heard some complaints about the GJ2 line, so it's not far fetched. 

I'm personally staying out of that between not being a customer, loathing armchair QC analysis and deep respect for everyone involved. I'm just mentioning it for those who've not heard/followed it before. I will say that 40 years of history would indicate it's silly to imply Grover Jackson doesn't know how to make a guitar, so my inclination would be that there's a lot of hands at work in his shop these days and limited oversight, but that speculation.


----------



## Jason B

I think the official story is that all the NAMM guitars were Grover’s, but all less-than-perfect guitars were Frank’s; therefore all the NAMM guitars were Frank’s, but the NAMM guitars showed that Grover’s will be worth the extra wait, with the exception of whichever of the first delivered batch of guitars are blamed on Frank.


----------



## Dayn

Randy said:


> No dog in this fight but I had a Fishman order come in two months late recently. Not sure what's going on over there but that part isn't far fetched.


I went through a music store who went through a distributor to get his signature Fishmans in Australia last year. Took three frigging months. That was probably the distributor and/or terrible management by the music store though...


----------



## Randy

Dayn said:


> I went through a music store who went through a distributor to get his signature Fishmans in Australia last year. Took three frigging months. That was probably the distributor and/or terrible management by the music store though...



Not to belabor this but mine was direct from Fishman. And no judgement on them, they're a great company and nice people. There's a chance they're backlogged now that there's more production models shipping Fluence loaded. Even though Tosin is an endorsement artist, and he and Grover are big names, it's still a low volume operation, so I'd assume filling their bigger orders takes priority.


----------



## axxessdenied

This is like pre-ordering a video game. Don't be surprised if you get a mess at the end. LOL.


----------



## Demiurge

^Putting down a deposit on a custom is normal, but builders get into trouble when those deposits are used as seed money that ends up everywhere but the build.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

This is the 3,183 post. This is a forum. On a product. Nobody has even seen the final product. And this is the 3,183 post. Guys what


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jack McGoldrick said:


> This is the 3,183 post. This is a forum. On a product. Nobody has even seen the final product. And this is the 3,183 post. Guys what



To be fair, the first year or two was discussion about the new, at the time, Ibanez model. 

So almost 3200 posts, three and a half years, four different builders (that we know of...), two different company names, three different "ambassadors".

It's been a wild ride!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

MaxOfMetal said:


> To be fair, the first year or two was discussion about the new, at the time, Ibanez model.
> 
> So almost 3200 posts, three and a half years, four different builders (that we know of...), two different company names, three different "ambassadors".
> 
> It's been a wild ride!



“frank falbo likes this”


----------



## narad

Tumblr's leaking.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Keith Merrow is using the grey and blue abasi in one of his new videos


----------



## MrWulf




----------



## axxessdenied

Demiurge said:


> ^Putting down a deposit on a custom is normal, but builders get into trouble when those deposits are used as seed money that ends up everywhere but the build.


I meant in terms of purchasing an unproven product that's all advertising and hype. I don't own any guitars that aren't a custom order so I know how it goes. I just won't ever throw down money on someone who hasn't even sold a single production guitar yet.


----------



## Soya

narad said:


> Tumblr's leaking.


Chlamydia?


----------



## frank falbo

axxessdenied said:


> I meant in terms of purchasing an unproven product that's all advertising and hype. I don't own any guitars that aren't a custom order so I know how it goes. I just won't ever throw down money on someone who hasn't even sold a single production guitar yet.


I think that’s a fair rule to have. Every new luthier has to start somewhere, but no customer is obligated to finance that risk.

In this case, there are some “known knowns”. Grover does OEM contract work. Among others, they make Friedman guitars which are highly regarded. True, no one has played a production Gro-basi but it’s not the same risks associated with a new builder.


----------



## Veldar

frank falbo said:


> I think that’s a fair rule to have. Every new luthier has to start somewhere, but no customer is obligated to finance that risk.
> 
> In this case, there are some “known knowns”. Grover does OEM contract work. Among others, they make Friedman guitars which are highly regarded. True, no one has played a production Gro-basi but it’s not the same risks associated with a new builder.



Ummmmmm

Didn't you spend a bunch of money that you weren't meant to thus leading to the change of builders?
Why you still posting in here?


----------



## axxessdenied

frank falbo said:


> I think that’s a fair rule to have. Every new luthier has to start somewhere, but no customer is obligated to finance that risk.
> 
> In this case, there are some “known knowns”. Grover does OEM contract work. Among others, they make Friedman guitars which are highly regarded. True, no one has played a production Gro-basi but it’s not the same risks associated with a new builder.


Well... considering the drama that surrounds the Abasi brand I would say that just because you get a reputable builder doesn't mean much of anything. They still haven't proven to have a business plan that works.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

axxessdenied said:


> Well... considering the drama that surrounds the Abasi brand I would say that just because you get a reputable builder doesn't mean much of anything. They still haven't proven to have a business plan that works.


correct. Falbo was considered a reputable builder before all this crap went down. Shit just look at what happened to Blackwater/Ran/Sherman/KxK,etc, all of them were very reputable and highly regarded at some point, and now their reputations are in the toilet because they fucked over customers.


----------



## frank falbo

Veldar said:


> Didn't you spend a bunch of money that you weren't meant to thus leading to the change of builders?


No, I did not.



Veldar said:


> Why you still posting in here?


Same as any other threads; to add value, clarify things, etc. I’ve been a member here for 15 years? Maybe more? I got my first 7 string in 1991. Plus, a big chunk of this thread is literally about me, whether it’s the pickups or the guitars. I don’t really see how it would make sense for me NOT to post here periodically, when I can add insight or perspective.


----------



## cip 123

Veldar said:


> Ummmmmm
> 
> Didn't you spend a bunch of money that you weren't meant to thus leading to the change of builders?
> Why you still posting in here?


Almost like its a public forum... Weird.


----------



## narad

Veldar said:


> Ummmmmm
> 
> Didn't you spend a bunch of money that you weren't meant to thus leading to the change of builders?
> Why you still posting in here?



C'mon. It's a sad state that the Falbo/Abasi stuff went sour, but there's basically never any corporate breakup that's solely one side's fault. Even considering a worse case hypothetical scenario where he was to blame, no need to act shitty to someone who has still had a huge net positive on the community.


----------



## Randy

Leave so that we can all talk about you in peace.


----------



## frank falbo




----------



## skmanga

the way Elysian talks is as if frank is building a court case based on peoples posts in this thread


----------



## cip 123

skmanga said:


> the way Elysian talks is as if frank is building a court case based on peoples posts in this thread


Because there probably is a legal case going on.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

*we need another big update just explaining stuff*


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jack McGoldrick said:


> *we need another big update just explaining stuff*



Nah.


----------



## jephjacques

I would much rather they finish more guitars than "explain what is going on"


----------



## diagrammatiks

Jack McGoldrick said:


> *we need another big update just explaining stuff*



If you preorder this guitar. Someone may or may not build you one.


----------



## jemfloral

Didn't they just send out an email with an explanation like two weeks ago


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

jemfloral said:


> Didn't they just send out an email with an explanation like two weeks ago


If someone wants to send it because my email seems to be removed from their mailing list a lot


----------



## narad

jephjacques said:


> I would much rather they finish more guitars than "explain what is going on"



"Any of you guys out there throw down a hefty deposit for a custom guitar with a low serial number and now the instagram's gone cold? We here at WB903X, The station with the smoothest small-op luthier-related hits, got you covered:"


----------



## Vyn

narad said:


> "Any of you guys out there throw down a hefty deposit for a custom guitar with a low serial number and now the instagram's gone cold? We here at WB903X, The station with the smoothest small-op luthier-related hits, got you covered:"




Fuck. Narad delivering the goods as usual


----------



## jemfloral

Jack McGoldrick said:


> If someone wants to send it because my email seems to be removed from their mailing list a lot


 
I believe it was only sent to people who have pre-ordered, but not sure. Anyways, the link for it is a page or two back in this same thread..


----------



## Minute Man

Abasi guitar concepts web site seems updated a little.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Minute Man said:


> Abasi guitar concepts web site seems updated a little.


How? I can’t see any change


----------



## Minute Man

Maybe it's a misconception for I seldom check their mobile site...


----------



## dogletnoir

narad said:


> "Any of you guys out there throw down a hefty deposit for a custom guitar with a low serial number and now the instagram's gone cold? We here at WB903X, The station with the smoothest small-op luthier-related hits, got you covered:"



That bass line still rules, all these years later. The whole album is lit, actually.


----------



## narad

dogletnoir said:


> That bass line still rules, all these years later. The whole album is lit, actually.



 James Jamerson, of course


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Vyn said:


> Fuck. Narad delivering the goods as usual



Well at least SOMEBODY is delivering goods @narad


----------



## MerlinTKD

Dineley said:


> Well at least SOMEBODY is delivering goods @narad


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I just realised something....



Seems familiar?


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Word on Instagram is thy the first guitars of this shipment are going out Friday or Monday


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

glassmoon0fo said:


> Word on Instagram is thy the first guitars of this shipment are going out Friday or Monday


Where’s this coming from?


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Where’s this coming from?



AbasiConcepts instagram, whoever runs it answered a customer question under a new post


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

It’s up


----------



## olejason

"I'm not trying to play as fast as possible."

Proceeds to play a bunch of weird sweepy harmonics.


----------



## narad

olejason said:


> "I'm not trying to play as fast as possible."
> 
> Proceeds to play a bunch of weird sweepy harmonics.



"I find myself pulled towards something deeper...something more..existential...there's a deeper reality that I'm trying to get into... that can only be accessed through..." a looper pedal.


----------



## Vyn

Jack McGoldrick said:


> It’s up




Is it just me or is Abasi Concepts/Guitars main market a bunch of elite cork-sniffing hipsters?


----------



## Avedas

Usually when a guitarist bases all their music around a single technique or concept their music ends up being really boring and same-y. When I saw ichika live I almost fell asleep standing up, and Polyphia was similar. I haven't heard any of Roopam's songs but at least his riffs are cool.


----------



## Minute Man

There is an update from mail list. Never notice the update mail until several search in my inbox...
https://drive.google.com/a/g-mail.n...exvW7O9tJOnUk65Sn7GgzgUU0Ov/view?usp=drivesdk
There is a video again... The build Mr. Grover holding looks cool

Abasi guitars concepts web just closed order and says sold out!!!!!?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Minute Man said:


> There is an update from mail list. Never notice the update mail until several search in my inbox...
> https://drive.google.com/a/g-mail.n...exvW7O9tJOnUk65Sn7GgzgUU0Ov/view?usp=drivesdk
> There is a video again... The build Mr. Grover holding looks cool
> 
> Abasi guitars concepts web just closed order and says sold out!!!!!?



Oh dear here we go


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Another while yet from the looks of things. Probably closing orders to handle the back log since estimated times for new orders would be quite off now. 



Avedas said:


> Usually when a guitarist bases all their music around a single technique or concept their music ends up being really boring and same-y. When I saw ichika live I almost fell asleep standing up, and Polyphia was similar. I haven't heard any of Roopam's songs but at least his riffs are cool.



Instrumental acoustic like Preston Reed or Andy McKee works a lot better in a live setting. I’ve always found instrumental electric guitar doesn’t translate well live.

Anyone else try the fretting hand harmonic and fail miserably lol


----------



## diagrammatiks

Vyn said:


> Is it just me or is Abasi Concepts/Guitars main market a bunch of elite cork-sniffing hipsters?



What were you expecting.


----------



## Vyn

diagrammatiks said:


> What were you expecting.



To be honest I'm not entirely sure I was expecting. Turtle necks and Apple-esk marketing wasn't high on the list though.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Vyn said:


> To be honest I'm not entirely sure I was expecting. Turtle necks and Apple-esk marketing wasn't high on the list though.



Have you seen tosin


----------



## Vyn

diagrammatiks said:


> Have you seen tosin



Last time I really followed Tosin was in 2012 when he came to Aus with Ibanez to do a clinic. Got to meet him, super chill dude, let everyone have a play of his LACS (white RG8 w/wenge neck, was gorgeous). He wasn't so... Steve Jobs back then.


----------



## cwhitey2

Jack McGoldrick said:


> It’s up



What a tool.


----------



## narad

Vyn said:


> Last time I really followed Tosin was in 2012 when he came to Aus with Ibanez to do a clinic. Got to meet him, super chill dude, let everyone have a play of his LACS (white RG8 w/wenge neck, was gorgeous). He wasn't so... Steve Jobs back then.



Ah, I listened to that clinic video a lot. Placed a Strandberg order around it.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> Anyone else try the fretting hand harmonic and fail miserably lol


To be fair, there were like three videos from NAMM (or some other MI show) where HE failed miserably at playing them demoing gear. They all seem to have magically disappeared off IG a few days later, though.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

He is multiplicity of the word multiplicity was annoying. Seems apparent he was trying to sound sophisticated and edgy. Then, when talking about why he chose the guitar, he starts choking up with so many "uhm"s that it was honestly quite awkward to watch.

This form of advertising is the worst. Also, at least half the video isn't even the recording you're hearing, if you noticed.

1:28
"and just every _*neck *_and every sort of tone you can get from the guitar is something I've always been interested in"
what? 
Guess the Larada neck won't be enough for him, he needs EVERY neck!

2:07
"if you can play fast then you can play well"
he's not claiming this, he's talking about high school classmates but it reminds me of this video ->
IF YOU CAN PLAY IT SLOW, THEN YOU CAN PLAY IT FAST!

3:58
"so essentially you can create a whole cascade of harmonics that just produce a multiplicity of possibilities"

6:25
"The Larada just speaks to me on so many levels. Just the fact that it was born out of just the mind of, of someone who has pushed the music industry forward in so many ways in a sense that everything about the guitar just speaks of innovation and of beauty and of forward thinkingness, which is something that I am heavily drawn towards.
Dang, it's the new Gibson. A company that thinks they're innovating when they aren't at all.

7:18
"So to me what attracts me most about the Larada is the neck, is the multi-scale neck, because uh to me it looks _*fourth-dimensional*_ almost."
don't get too excited there, time traveler. I guess everything looks 4th-dimensional if it looks like it will be there a few seconds from now

So in summary, selling points of the guitar:

comfort, curves, can be held in a multiplicity of ways
born from the mind of Tosin
multi-scale neck

You guys should all go buy one.

Being completely serious, I actually wanted one of these near the start of this thread. This hot garbage they call marketing though makes sure I'll never send a dime their way. There is no way I'd want to enforce the idea that this style of marketing is good and have it pay off for them.


----------



## Extrafunk

I was unable to watch the whole thing! Pretentious doesn’t even begin to cover it...


----------



## jemfloral

I've tried clicking the link directly, copying and pasting the link into a browser, etc. and can't seem to watch the video (same as with the first one)... what am I missing?


----------



## Albake21

jemfloral said:


> I've tried clicking the link directly, copying and pasting the link into a browser, etc. and can't seem to watch the video (same as with the first one)... what am I missing?


What happens when you click it? Are you logged into a google account, because I'm pretty sure you have to be to watch it.


----------



## Smoked Porter

narad said:


> "I find myself pulled towards something deeper...something more..existential...there's a deeper reality that I'm trying to get into... that can only be accessed through..." a looper pedal.


I seriously thought you were parodying, but apparently not. Jesus fuck.


----------



## jemfloral

Albake21 said:


> What happens when you click it? Are you logged into a google account, because I'm pretty sure you have to be to watch it.



@Albake21 it just goes straight to the Abasi homepage


----------



## Kaura

Man, when I saw that video I thought to myself "do you have to wear a turtleneck and have a trendy haircut to be taken seriously as a guitarist in 2019?". I'm glad that doesn't seem to be the case. I mean, look at Jari from Wintersun. Dude fucking shreds in his underwear. 



And yeah, I know it's stupid to judge people by their appearance but I gotta agree that I'm not really digging this kind of advertising. Trying to be all philosophical and shit. It's just a guitar, after all.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Kaura said:


> And yeah, I know it's stupid to judge people by their appearance but I gotta agree that I'm not really digging this kind of advertising. Trying to be all philosophical and shit. It's just a guitar, after all.


Yeah if they could just show longer features of people playing on their own rigs that’d be far better than life pondering.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Kaura said:


> Man, when I saw that video I thought to myself "do you have to wear a turtleneck and have a trendy haircut to be taken seriously as a guitarist in 2019?". I'm glad that doesn't seem to be the case. I mean, look at Jari from Wintersun. Dude fucking shreds in his underwear.
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah, I know it's stupid to judge people by their appearance but I gotta agree that I'm not really digging this kind of advertising. Trying to be all philosophical and shit. It's just a guitar, after all.



After the promo video for the artwork for the last Wintersun album he is not allowed to be used as an example of how to not come off like a douche in promo..."AND WE GOT IT, WE GOT THE MONEY SHOT"....nerd


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I thought at least SOMEBODY would have something to say about the update video, but taking down pretentious art douches takes priority when you’re THIS FUCKING METAL. Y’all wild for that


----------



## Albake21

What is there to talk about? All he says is they're not done, they need more time.


----------



## kisielk

I gotta say upon watching the update video, most of the examples of the guitars he showed do nothing for me. I know they’re not quite finished, but I don’t think they look nearly as good as in the product shots. Might be just those particular finishes and combos. Also I didn’t realize prior to this video that the headstock has basically no tilt back, and that also looks weird to me. A few degrees of tilt would look better IMO. And thirdly I don’t really like the look of the Abasi logo on the headstock either. A bit too flashy for my tastes. 

I still love the body shape though, it looks like a boutique bass or my Ibanez Terra Firma.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Maybe I’m surprised that’s how it was taken, typically a lot of discussion and conjecturing comes after an update. I thought the same, and it was nice to get a look at the products again. That roast session was pretty funny tho tbh, I’m here for it


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I just don't think folks, at least here, care much about these anymore. 

I think we're finding the limit in which something can hold our attention, and after how many years, builders, scandals and no product still, I don't see it really improving until these are widely available.


----------



## Albake21

Exactly. The hype for these are long gone. Once they are actually out in the wild and have a good response, only then do they have a chance to get that hype back. I mean shit, this thread is from 2015. Whether Ibanez or Abasi Concepts, still no customer has gotten one in their hands yet.


----------



## Minute Man

The tuners are cool! Hipshot cylinder ones, just noticed


----------



## Vyn

Albake21 said:


> Exactly. The hype for these are long gone. Once they are actually out in the wild and have a good response, only then do they have a chance to get that hype back. I mean shit, this thread is from 2015. Whether Ibanez or Abasi Concepts, still no customer has gotten one in their hands yet.



Just had a funny thought - if you had of ordered a Daemoness in 2015 you would probably have it by now. That's how long this shit-show has been going on for (Nothing against Daemoness, arguably one of the best custom builders out there, more referring to how long the waiting list is).


----------



## kisielk

Minute Man said:


> The tuners are cool! Hipshot cylinder ones, just noticed


Ugh, those actually look dreadful, both aesthetically and from a usability perspective. What's wrong with regular tuning heads? It's not like they get in the way when playing.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

kisielk said:


> Ugh, those actually look dreadful, both aesthetically and from a usability perspective. What's wrong with regular tuning heads? It's not like they get in the way when playing.



They're not that bad in practice, as they're well knurled, but you're right, regular heads are easier to turn, especially when stringing up.


----------



## kisielk

I just don't really see how they're an improvement over regular tuning keys at all


----------



## MaxOfMetal

kisielk said:


> I just don't really see how they're an improvement over regular tuning keys at all



Because they look neato.


----------



## kisielk

Sure, if you like the "tuning keys fell off my guitar" kind of look :0


----------



## narad

kisielk said:


> I just don't really see how they're an improvement over regular tuning keys at all



Because when you're tuning up you can pretend that you're revving an itsy-bitsy motorcycle.


----------



## spudmunkey

kisielk said:


> I just don't really see how they're an improvement over regular tuning keys at all



Maaaybe, if they are super easy to turn due to gearing, it could be perhaps easier to just pinch and turn from any position, rather than having to adjust yoru grip because the "T" shaped knob is turned a weird orientation.

That's it.

Are they maybe lighter?


----------



## olejason

spudmunkey said:


> it could be perhaps easier to just pinch and turn from any position, rather than having to adjust yoru grip because the "T" shaped knob is turned a weird orientation.



That part is true, however insignificant. They are not extraordinarily light. They are as easy to turn as a normal peg, the gears are the same. It is just a different design, Hipshot makes a bunch of different button designs nowadays. It isn't meant to be an 'upgrade' over regular buttons, it is just an aesthetics thing. https://hipshotproducts.com/products/guitar-tuner-buttons?variant=43354941064


----------



## Minute Man

Sometime regular knobs move in gig bag or tangle to something and mess up tuning, aren't they?
Maybe simple cylinder is less prone to that, maybe.


----------



## noise in my mind

After watching the promo video I am pretty sure I am not cool/smart enough to own an Abasi guitar.


----------



## Lemonbaby

noise in my mind said:


> After watching the promo video I am pretty sure I am not cool/smart enough to own an Abasi guitar.


And don't forget to wear your neoprene shoes in the rehearsal room...


----------



## xzacx

Minute Man said:


> Sometime regular knobs move in gig bag or tangle to something and mess up tuning, aren't they?
> Maybe simple cylinder is less prone to that, maybe.



Yeah for sure, and a lot less easy to bump too. That's one of the reason I love locking nuts as it eliminates that element of tuning instability. I think they're cool personally just for the resemblance to LSRs.


----------



## srrdude

Oh man, I like this guitar, but this kid's clothes are not to my liking, so. Ya know. Fuck the guitar I guess?


----------



## Extrafunk

Just because I couldn’t stomach Overtone Fullofmyself’s verbal masturbation doesn’t mean that I don’t want one!

That’ll be a primer grey body, roasted maple neck with a markerless richlite fretboard for me, please...


----------



## lurè

Yep, I still would rock one despite the cringy marketing.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

srrdude said:


> Oh man, I like this guitar, but this kid's clothes are not to my liking, so. Ya know. Fuck the guitar I guess?



Nothing is stopping anyone from talking about the guitars. It's just no one cares because after nearly five years practically no one here has played one, at least one that wasn't suspect. 

We've seen about as much fashion as functional instruments at this point.


----------



## Thaeon

MaxOfMetal said:


> Nothing is stopping anyone from talking about the guitars. It's just no one cares because after nearly five years practically no one here has played one, at least one that wasn't suspect.
> 
> We've seen about as much fashion as functional instruments at this point.



Partly why I bought an Oni. The other part is I didn't want one of these. I wanted an Oni.


----------



## StevenC

I'm surprised there aren't more LSR tuner fans here.


----------



## diagrammatiks

srrdude said:


> Oh man, I like this guitar, but this kid's clothes are not to my liking, so. Ya know. Fuck the guitar I guess?



what guitars. show me one I can fuck right now and I'll get right on it.


----------



## possumkiller

StevenC said:


> I'm surprised there aren't more LSR tuner fans here.


Not since people started offering LSR style buttons on their normal style tuners. I wish they would make a comeback but I don't see it happening.


----------



## Thaeon

possumkiller said:


> Not since people started offering LSR style buttons on their normal style tuners. I wish they would make a comeback but I don't see it happening.



Getting ready to order some of the Hipshot ones for my Suhr.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

In my personal opinion, because the cylinder tuners require a bit more force to turn, it makes them more precise. Same reason I dig the tuning barrel-style machines on headless guitars. And as mentioned already, bumping them into something and being de-tuned is not an issue.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Regarding the video, I was hoping to have a few good laughs in this very thread. I was most definitely not disappointed. 

I can give the kid a pass - youth is quite prone to some rather pretentious and pompous tirades, and that is further composed by the whole hipster attire and "I shall make this video in my glorious apartment and come across as a trust fund kid" when it comes to drawing out the pitchforks in the internet community -, but I am a tad baffled by the way this was all conducted given that it's a promo video with the purpose of showing off the guitars in the hands of a solid player, and most of that ends up not happening and giving way to a lot of pseudo-intellectual drivel when I feel most prospective buyers are after the guitar's specs and capabilities, not Apple-like marketing almost portraying the thing as some sort of hip lifestyle accessory. Well, if it brings in the sales, more power to them!

The man has some neat ideas and execution, though - it's a bit of a shame we don't see more of that there.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

Is this an advert for the guy’s technique or the guitar? I’m sorry, but I don’t see anything there that points to the guitar being different or cooler or better than the competition.

Is he famous? Or another YouTube guy?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Is this an advert for the guy’s technique or the guitar? I’m sorry, but I don’t see anything there that points to the guitar being different or cooler or better than the competition.
> 
> Is he famous? Or another YouTube guy?



The band "The Surrealist".

Also, if you check out the Spotify artist page now, it shows an Abasi guitar in the background.


----------



## Fred the Shred

From a given quality point, all you can do in any segment is to try to promote whatever advantages, real or perceived, there are when you compare your product to something else in the price range; from design to materials to playability, there's always something you can go for to differentiate your brand in a positive light that will, coupled with the artists in your roster (by merit of sheer reach, proficiency or any combination of both your strategy deems appropriate), paint the thing in a good enough light to influence someone to give their money to you and not the competition. 

Where I think stuff went wrong in this ad is that you had everything for things to work great, i.e. a solid player capable of pulling off something both musical and challenging that does place its share of demands on the instruments, and yet what we have is basically a focus on almost metaphysical properties the instrument is supposed to have that reminds me of the stuff folks were coming up with regarding Blackmachines when they were the hot shit around these parts, which was silly enough in a forum, let alone in what is basically an ad, but that's just my opinion. I honestly think the design and approach are different enough to warrant capitalizing on that and the sort of super technical dudes using them as the major selling points (especially given how one such player happens to be Tosin himself).

Considering that we have virtually none in the wild to have some organic feedback start happening, we'll see what happens, I guess.


----------



## Thaeon

I'm listening to some of the dude's stuff on Spotify right now. It's cool in a very ambient electronic music, weird Nine Inch Nails sampled/found audio sort of way. The fact that its him and loop pedal is cool. But, Jean Boudin was doing this sort of stuff more than a decade ago on a 12 string bass. I wouldn't call this revolutionary. The guitar or the playing. There's just a mainstream enough market for both at this point.


----------



## kisielk

I have no qualms with his playing or music, I think he’s a good and creative musician. Also no qualms with the guitars as a concept, I mostly like their look and features. But the way the ad was presented was just terrible. It’s as if someone was tasked with making a pretentious hipster guitar player parody.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

A guitar player review or a guitarist magazine review or something like that would be much better than the videos which are more artist spotlight than ads. I wanna see shots of the guitar from every angle, tone demos in different genres, not peoples ethos.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Get Stephen Taranto in one of these ads and just let him play. Shots of the heel and some fretboard playing closeups. Maybe a “sweet guitar.” at the end. Nuff said.


----------



## bostjan

Finally watched the video. I guess I was less entertained than average. This guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about (for example, left hand only harmonics are not a new technique and 150 Hz is not an overtone of a fundamental of 100 Hz). I thought his music was neato except he kept ruining it by talking, which showed that he was attempting different techniques than he was actually doing.


----------



## Fred the Shred

It's just one of the traps of trying to be an intellectual, as more often than not you have no idea as to what you're on about.


----------



## lurè

I guess playability and sound aren't relevant anymore for choosing an instrument; people now are chasing imaginary overtones.


----------



## Fred the Shred

I miss the days of angel choirs sprouting from your ass every time you played a note on a Blackmachine. Far more poetic, with the bonus perk of solving constipation preemptively.


----------



## narad

bostjan said:


> This guy clearly has no idea what he's talking about (for example, left hand only harmonics are not a new technique and 150 Hz is not an overtone of a fundamental of 100 Hz)



On most guitars that's true, but this is an Abasi Guitar.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

When I think of this guitar, I’m going to think boring and sterile.


----------



## Randy

No shade on this guy or the video. This is standard of what you'd expect from an artist spotlight/marketing video. He's talented and it's a cool guitar.

If I was going to offer a critique, I think the video is a little long. I'd say, a little playing, a little bit about the guy and his philosophy on music, more playing, talk about the guitar itself, more playing and close. 3 to 5 minutes. I thought the stuff about overtones and harmonics were kinda stretching to fill time and he would've still looked smart and talented without it. 

Also, I'm not familiar with the band so I googled them. Not sure if they have any other major endorsements but I thought having a band that sounds so similar to AAL and another guy that taps and uses a looper isn't as diverse a choice as I'd have gone with. I know I saw Aaron Marshall using one at NAMM one time, and I *think* Night Verses toured with AAL at one point, so Nick Depirro wouldn't be bad either. Also


----------



## StevenC

This video is silly, but I think it goes without saying you can shred on an _Abasi _guitar.


----------



## 77zark77

What about staying on basics with a stringed instrument, and so make it yourself the engin you want ?
Always a time needed to tame something new, I can't understand defiinite advices without experience
Those don't excite me enough to pay that much to test, but like said a certain Jimmy, are you experienced ?


----------



## frank falbo

Randy said:


> No shade on this guy...


 Yeah super nice guy when I met him, and very skilled. This should be good exposure for him. Even in this thread people checked out his stuff because of it. 

I encourage everyone posting critiques not to take it out on this kid.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Randy said:


> Nick Depirro wouldn't be bad either. Also



Gotta agree on this one, Nick would be great. Super interesting player.


----------



## Thaeon

narad said:


> On most guitars that's true, but this is an Abasi Guitar.



You heard it here first. Abasi Laradas break the laws of physics.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

frank falbo said:


> I encourage everyone posting critiques not to take it out on this kid.



I said it was boring and sterile. Had there been less than a minute of the chimey chimes, then ANYTHING different, it would’ve been pretty neat. That much of it becomes no different than 10 consecutive minutes of sweep picking.


----------



## jaxadam

The perfect promo vid is 30 seconds long with some E major power chords, then some 80’s style Racer X sweeping. Sold.


----------



## Spicypickles

E minor son, keep it metal.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

glassmoon0fo said:


> Get Stephen Taranto in one of these ads and just let him play. Shots of the heel and some fretboard playing closeups. Maybe a “sweet guitar.” at the end. Nuff said.



Definitely agree more variety in the playing would go a long way. 

I’m betting they didn’t show the heel because it’s Falbo’s.


----------



## AxeHappy

Randy said:


> Also, I'm not familiar with the band so I googled them. Not sure if they have any other major endorsements but I thought having a band that sounds so similar to AAL and another guy that taps and uses a looper isn't as diverse a choice as I'd have gone with. I know I saw Aaron Marshall using one at NAMM one time, and I *think* Night Verses toured with AAL at one point, so Nick Depirro wouldn't be bad either. Also



I know Tosin appeared on Herman Li's Twitch Channel pimping the Guitars, but Herman seems to only stream while I'm at work so I don't know how that went down. Herman and Tosin seem to be all friendises and whatnot though so I wouldn't exactly take a glowing endorsement from Herman as Gospel if one exists. (To be clear, no shade thrown at Herman. He has been a stand up guy every time I've met him) 

Tosin definitely seems to be targeting the nerdy over the top shredding segment of the market and...I mean given who he is and his name being a strong part of the marketing that seems fair enough? 

(To be clear, I agree with you, Randy, and am attempting to further and add to the conversation not disagreeing with you)


----------



## Hollowway

So maybe I missed if, but do we have an idea of what the business plan is now? Is there going to be a WMI style production line, or is Grover making everything? And is Grover doing stuff just in small batches?


----------



## Fred the Shred

What I got from NAMM was that there were supposed to be US and Japan lines, but I really have no clue as to whether the latter will be a thing in the end, to be honest. Haven't heard from that front since the show.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Fred the Shred said:


> What I got from NAMM was that there were supposed to be US and Japan lines, but I really have no clue as to whether the latter will be a thing in the end, to be honest. Haven't heard from that front since the show.



I heard on some interview that Tosin wanted all guitars to be made in America, they’ve also shipped some so has nobody gotten one yet?


----------



## Vyn

Fred the Shred said:


> What I got from NAMM was that there were supposed to be US and Japan lines, but I really have no clue as to whether the latter will be a thing in the end, to be honest. Haven't heard from that front since the show.



If he wanted a Japanese line he should have just stuck with Ibanez...


----------



## jemfloral

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I heard on some interview that Tosin wanted all guitars to be made in America, they’ve also shipped some so has nobody gotten one yet?



Who said that they'd shipped anything, wasn't the last update that they needed more time?


----------



## narad

Vyn said:


> If he wanted a Japanese line he should have just stuck with Ibanez...



Better margins for him if he throws it at the people who do the J-Bodens.


----------



## Vyn

narad said:


> Better margins for him if he throws it at the people who do the J-Bodens.



True. Still don't think it was the right move IMO:
- Ibanez have their shit together when it comes to manufacturing, quality and distribution
- The price difference probably wouldn't have been that much. Even if it was and the Abasi's were built by Sugi it would be worth it (there's actual wizards in that factory!)
- Yes Ibanez may have restricted the design to just an 8 however I doubt he would have grabbed much more market share by expanding the range to 6s and 7s, especially as he is an 8 string player (one of the ost well known 8 string players at that).

Let's be honest, there would be a stack of these in the wild and probably a decent-enough indo version kicking around if he had of stayed with Ibanez.


----------



## Soya

.... Except the whole reason Tosin started his own company was because Ibanez was dragging their feet with his sig model.


----------



## Vyn

Soya said:


> .... Except the whole reason Tosin started his own company was because Ibanez was dragging their feet with his sig model.



Because Tosin kept changing the specs of it it and wanted more than just an 8 string sig. They went out of their way to build a whole new body shape for him to his specs which I can't recall them doing for an artist in a long time with the exception of VERY established Ibanez artists.


----------



## Soya

Well I mean I guess then.


----------



## Avedas

I wonder what Japanese builder he could convince to make them


----------



## StevenC

Avedas said:


> I wonder what Japanese builder he could convince to make them


If they've got a Japanese builder on board, I can 100% guarantee it's Dyna Gakki where the J Bodens are made. This a good thing because the J Bodens are the only Strandberg line to get into production without issue.


----------



## narad

StevenC said:


> If they've got a Japanese builder on board, I can 100% guarantee it's Dyna Gakki where the J Bodens are made. This a good thing because the J Bodens are the only Strandberg line to get into production without issue.



The only issue being batshit crazy prices. And literally doubling in price within the first year when they saw the demand. Margins on those things must be insane.


----------



## diagrammatiks

narad said:


> The only issue being batshit crazy prices. And literally doubling in price within the first year when they saw the demand. Margins on those things must be insane.



Some of the indonesian guitars are approaching j standard prices now. lol


----------



## Avedas

The regular Boden J models are your typical high end guitar price of about $3000-$4000, but the special vendor custom shop or convention display models get up to double that pretty quickly. I want to get one eventually but I think it's going to be years until I find one I like at a price I like.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Avedas said:


> The regular Boden J models are your typical high end guitar price of about $3000-$4000, but the special vendor custom shop or convention display models get up to double that pretty quickly. I want to get one eventually but I think it's going to be years until I find one I like at a price I like.



That's almost twice my M2M quote. 

It's crazy how times have changed.


----------



## Fred the Shred

To be honest, plans are just plans until we see the end result. So right now I'm certain the focus is on sorting the production delays on guitars that were ordered already coming from the US. If it isn't, it really should be, really.

As for the rest, I have no idea whatsoever if it'll be a thing. NAMM talk is not exactly a binding contract.


----------



## axxessdenied

All I am seeing so far is Tosin bit off more than he can chew.
Also, I don't know about you guys but the Ibanez Prestige stuff felt drastically sub-par compared to a lot of indonesian guitars.


----------



## Thaeon

Wow... Bodens are more than my Suhr... Nope.


----------



## axxessdenied

^ at namm 2019


----------



## Fred the Shred

I have my own views about this sort of stuff. Aiming for CS stuff while attempting to streamline the process to ensure quick and efficient delivery of considerable numbers is a costly endeavour envolving either subcontracting an already established (and optimized) operation or building one from scratch. In both cases, I have never seen the operation up and running at peak efficiency, both in delivery time and quality consistency, before a good few months had passed. I don't know the current size of Grover's operation, but if this is another case of a small shop having to churn out substantial numbers in diminute timeframes, I have many concerns. I will be thrilled if they prove to be unfounded, but until then...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Fred the Shred said:


> I have my own views about this sort of stuff. Aiming for CS stuff while attempting to streamline the process to ensure quick and efficient delivery of considerable numbers is a costly endeavour envolving either subcontracting an already established (and optimized) operation or building one from scratch. In both cases, I have never seen the operation up and running at peak efficiency, both in delivery time and quality consistency, before a good few months had passed. I don't know the current size of Grover's operation, but if this is another case of a small shop having to churn out substantial numbers in diminute timeframes, I have many concerns. I will be thrilled if they prove to be unfounded, but until then...



It's kind of a wild card. 

The last Grover Jackson branded project, GJ2, were solid guitars, nothing amazing, but perfectly acceptable once the price aligned itself with the market (they were stupid expensive at first). But they also unleashed a few underwhelming examples, and not just the import range.

Obviously the name has a lot of clout, but he's already got other guitars to build and by several accounts the Abasi camp isn't the easiest to work with. 

It's anyone's guess how these will turn out. 

I want to say Grover has been at this long enough to know what poor instruments will do to both brands, but in 2019, all bets are off. 

The fact that we've seen nothing new isn't reassuring.


----------



## Fred the Shred

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's kind of a wild card.
> 
> The last Grover Jackson branded project, GJ2, were solid guitars, nothing amazing, but perfectly acceptable once the price aligned itself with the market (they were stupid expensive at first). But they also unleashed a few underwhelming examples, and not just the import range.
> 
> Obviously the name has a lot of clout, but he's already got other guitars to build and by several accounts the Abasi camp isn't the easiest to work with.
> 
> It's anyone's guess how these will turn out.
> 
> I want to say Grover has been at this long enough to know what poor instruments will do to both brands, but in 2019, all bets are off.
> 
> The fact that we've seen nothing new isn't reassuring.



Basically. My concerns are rarely tied to an operation's capability to deliver goods, but rather to both fit new models and practices AND operate within stringent timelines that are often impossible to meet with the added effort of the previous point in there, especially if they already had very little room to wiggle to begin with. There's a reason the saying "good, cheap, fast - pick two" exists, after all.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Fred the Shred said:


> Basically. My concerns are rarely tied to an operation's capability to deliver goods, but rather to both fit new models and practices AND operate within stringent timelines that are often impossible to meet with the added effort of the previous point in there, especially if they already had very little room to wiggle to begin with. There's a reason the saying "good, cheap, fast - pick two" exists, after all.



Two? They can't seem to get one right.


----------



## Fred the Shred

That happens when you foolishly choose all 3, which immediately applies a -999 penalty to both delivery and quality!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I’m on holiday in California and I really want to visit the workshop, anyone know if that’d be possible? I’ve emailed Ivan a few times with no response.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I’m on holiday in California and I really want to visit the workshop, anyone know if that’d be possible? I’ve emailed Ivan a few times with no response.



It's not their shop. 

You'd probably have to talk to Grover Jackson's people.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's not their shop.
> 
> You'd probably have to talk to Grover Jackson's people.



Thanks just did that


----------



## ExileMetal

He also should have gone with Ibanez to capture Ibanez _fans_. I was chomping at the bit to get one of the Ibanez ones.

I think I’ve seen two guitars in non-Tosin hands in 4 years. I think this guitar has only weakened his brand (and by that I don’t mean Abasi Concepts).


----------



## Fred the Shred

I agree, to be honest. Thing is that there are several ways to tackle an ambitious move like starting a new guitar brand, and their costs and "time in the oven" vary drastically depending on a number of factors, like amounts of customization on offer (if at all), whether you go for a lean manufacturing process or not, where the guitars will be made and the dimension of the operation, etc.. All these are prone to huge variations in what are realistic goals regarding investment, return time on said investment, and target timelines from order to delivery. 

Since the available options are, from what I gather, quite broad, the production is done by a small custom shop, and the whole transition from Falbo to Grover took place in the middle of the whole ordeal, with some indications that there were operational guidelines that could not be met due to timing or budget constraints in the process, I find it extremely optimistic, to the point of being unrealistic, to expect an operation with these characteristics to be able to not only optimize the process but also churn out non negligible numbers in such a small time frame. In the end, it would always be a lose / lose scenario, but I do think the attempt to capitalize on the momentum of the brand announcement and keep things rolling as if to shrug off past problem would always be super risky, and in this moment it's likely to harm the brand's credibility more than redoing the plan and stopping the operation for a while ever could.


----------



## kisielk

ExileMetal said:


> He also should have gone with Ibanez to capture Ibanez _fans_. I was chomping at the bit to get one of the Ibanez ones.
> 
> I think I’ve seen two guitars in non-Tosin hands in 4 years. I think this guitar has only weakened his brand (and by that I don’t mean Abasi Concepts).



I agree. I would have bought the Ibanez sig without a second thought (assuming it wasn’t priced like the M8M). I’m familiar enough with Ibanez guitars to know exactly what to expect from their builds and general features / feel. They’re also much easier to find for sale and can be warrantied / serviced by my local retailer. Just fewer wild cards than going for a foreign (I’m in Canada) effectively custom shop build.


----------



## GXPO

At this point, is there even a single untarnished custom shop by SSO standards? That's not a criticism, I'm just curious as to whether there's an outfit catering to the extended range market which has operated without some sort of semi-major issue affecting their reputation. Daemoness is the only one I can think of.. Mayones maybe? I know they put out some lemons in the early days but they're pretty consistent now. Oni? 

At the end of the day if these guys release a seriously draw-dropping product this conversation will be mostly moot. I just can't imagine it based on my experience.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

GXPO said:


> At this point, is there even a single untarnished custom shop by SSO standards? That's not a criticism, I'm just curious as to whether there's an outfit catering to the extended range market which has operated without some sort of semi-major issue affecting their reputation. Daemoness is the only one I can think of.. Mayones maybe? I know they put out some lemons in the early days but they're pretty consistent now. Oni?
> 
> At the end of the day if these guys release a seriously draw-dropping product this conversation will be mostly moot. I just can't imagine it based on my experience.



I don't think there's any reputation here. Maybe once guitars actually ship to people we'll be able to decide, but it would be by proxy. 

It's important to distinguish between a "shop" and a "brand". Grover Jackson is a somewhat known quantity, but any shop can have issues when making such a significant departure, being beholden to a client (brand) that might be difficult to work with, and working through what might be a significant backlog. Maybe things would have been different if things started as a Grover Jackson project and weren't transplants. 

I'm not going to list who I think is a shop beyond reproach, this isn't the time or place, but offhand I can think of many, double digits really. They're just not typically "bargain priced" or are based upon a single artist.


----------



## Albake21

GXPO said:


> At this point, is there even a single untarnished custom shop by SSO standards? That's not a criticism, I'm just curious as to whether there's an outfit catering to the extended range market which has operated without some sort of semi-major issue affecting their reputation. Daemoness is the only one I can think of.. Mayones maybe? I know they put out some lemons in the early days but they're pretty consistent now. Oni?
> 
> At the end of the day if these guys release a seriously draw-dropping product this conversation will be mostly moot. I just can't imagine it based on my experience.


Daemoness, Mayones, Skervesen, Padalka, Aristides, and a bunch of tiny builders seem to have a good reputation here.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Well it’s looking like I’m going to Grovers shop to try some, so I’ll come back here and tell you what I think


----------



## Thaeon

I'll add Oni to that list. Though, build times can get really long. But I think that's just because Dan likes to keep pricing pretty consistent, and he want the product to be consistent. There's a reason you don't see a lot of them moving around used. People tend to hold on to them. He also likes to experiment with new ideas.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Albake21 said:


> Daemoness, Mayones, Skervesen, Padalka, Aristides, and a bunch of tiny builders seem to have a good reputation here.



Mayones tanked the whole custom thing in Europe for a few years. They had to work very hard to rebuild their reputation after they sent out a lemon to a popular player. He told everyone and word spread putting people off mayones and custom guitars for years . Skervesen had quite a rocky start but managed to iron out their problems. 

One of the things to remember is if a builder puts out a guitar with a problem it is generally rectified privately. It’s only when they don’t and the person has to go public that everyone becomes aware. Unfortunately that’s a double edged sword cause people will continue for years buying guitars from a cowboy builder cause people aren’t making anything public.


----------



## Albake21

Lorcan Ward said:


> Mayones tanked the whole custom thing in Europe for a few years. They had to work very hard to rebuild their reputation after they sent out a lemon to a popular player. He told everyone and word spread putting people off mayones and custom guitars for years . Skervesen had quite a rocky start but managed to iron out their problems.
> 
> One of the things to remember is if a builder puts out a guitar with a problem it is generally rectified privately. It’s only when they don’t and the person has to go public that everyone becomes aware. Unfortunately that’s a double edged sword cause people will continue for years buying guitars from a cowboy builder cause people aren’t making anything public.


At the end of the day, personally I think that's how it should be. It shouldn't be public unless they want it to be. It's between the builder and customer, no one else. If that said customer wants to talk about it publicly they can do so if they want. Look at the end of the day, custom guitars will always have some issues. It's near impossible to always make flawless custom instruments. It's how they handle it is the problem. If there's enough issues, it will be public knowledge in no time. It's near impossible to get away with building shit to guitar players.


----------



## Bdtunn

GXPO said:


> At this point, is there even a single untarnished custom shop by SSO standards? That's not a criticism, I'm just curious as to whether there's an outfit catering to the extended range market which has operated without some sort of semi-major issue affecting their reputation. Daemoness is the only one I can think of.. Mayones maybe? I know they put out some lemons in the early days but they're pretty consistent now. Oni?
> 
> At the end of the day if these guys release a seriously draw-dropping product this conversation will be mostly moot. I just can't imagine it based on my experience.




On a smaller scale Oakland axe factory/drinkwater guitArs has done me and a few others here right. I was thrilled with my order and communication!!


----------



## _MonSTeR_

The early Mayones guitars I tried were enough to put me off the brand completely. Nothing was drastically wrong, but there wasn’t a great guitar amongst them. Times change, but a tarnished reputation often stays that way.

I’ve never seen a skervesen in the wild to try and I’m not interested in an Aristides, I would however like to try an Abasi if they ever make it over here. I wonder if at some stage Tosin will run out of money before the guitars actually start to turn enough of a profit, it seems like ages since the original Ibanez prototypes. Anyone remember when we first saw the space whale?


----------



## Mathemagician

So I’ve skipped many pages since the first news that they were working with Frank anymore. If I’m reading the last page or so correctly they seem to have settled on working with Grover Jackson, but are also targeting mass-market pricing? As in $1.2k-1.6k is what I’m thinking? - Like an import line?

I always just assumed these would be $3k+ instruments due to all the “customization” options they were touting.


----------



## spudmunkey

If my understanding of the previous pages is correct (admittedly, not likely), it's actually US and maaaaaybe Japan.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

No real talk of Japan, made by Grover Jackson not Frank, $2.5 kinda pricing, nobody’s seen them


----------



## GXPO

Albake21 said:


> Daemoness, Mayones, Skervesen, Padalka, Aristides, and a bunch of tiny builders seem to have a good reputation here.



Totally forgot about Padalka and Aristides. I wasn't sure about Skervesen, I've never played one myself and some still seem to think the price to guitar ratio is off.


----------



## Fred the Shred

There's a number of brands I can personally vouch for with no reservations in terms of build quality in the present day, a few less in terms of build times, and some that I lament being out of the game like KxK. I think the credibility issue only appears when the brand is relatively new and unknown and, most importantly, there are very few examples in the wild, and this gets further complications on top if most of said few examples happen to land in the hands of the "shill for freebies" crowd.

What we have here, though, is basically a brand issue with no real ties to current quality, and growing concerns as to whether the goals and strategy are viable at all. The products were in the "let's see what happens when this is final" camp at NAMM both times I saw them, and the rough ending of the Abasi / Falbo partnership complete with a pinch of less than professional salt thrown in didn't help matters one bit. I can't say the quality itself was compromised or not, as I have no idea as to what the Grovers will be like, least of all in terms of actual production examples, so it would be just more useless speculation thrown in.


----------



## Andromalia

Lots of shops have had a long story of good business. The thing is, they're expensive.


----------



## bostjan

GXPO said:


> At this point, is there even a single untarnished custom shop by SSO standards? That's not a criticism, I'm just curious as to whether there's an outfit catering to the extended range market which has operated without some sort of semi-major issue affecting their reputation. Daemoness is the only one I can think of.. Mayones maybe? I know they put out some lemons in the early days but they're pretty consistent now. Oni?
> 
> At the end of the day if these guys release a seriously draw-dropping product this conversation will be mostly moot. I just can't imagine it based on my experience.



There are too many to list off the top of my head. The problem is that there are ten thousand custom shops and only a couple hundred good ones. The fact that your mileage mary vary at any time with any shop, depending on a vast number of factors doesn't help. Maybe a shop will deliver your dream guitar exactly how you want it, but someone else thought their guitar from the same shop was shit, because they asked for single coils and later decided that they hate single coils, or whatever.

But even when you strip away all of the subjective stuff, the fact remains that more than half of custom guitar shops can't even deliver a functional guitar if you give them a deposit is really scary. I've been very careful myself and I've been burned more than once. I think there are a lot of users here who would say the same.

But back to this Abasi guitar... I'm not very confident that this brand will be around ten years from now. Trying to cut costs in order to mass market a thing that will ultimately go for $2-3k and appeal to a super specific subset of the market just isn't going to work, from a business standpoint.


----------



## bostjan

Also, Grover Jackson is what, 70? I'd imagine that he's going to have a low tolerance for any bullshit at his age.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

bostjan said:


> Also, Grover Jackson is what, 70? I'd imagine that he's going to have a low tolerance for any bullshit at his age.



He also hasn’t emailed me back about the address of his workshop so I’m not able to go see the Abasi’s


----------



## Fred the Shred

To be honest, Grover has many things on his plate, and given how his operaration tackles far more than just Abasi stuff, I'm not even sure he can address casual enquiries.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Fred the Shred said:


> To be honest, Grover has many things on his plate, and given how his operaration tackles far more than just Abasi stuff, I'm not even sure he can address casual enquiries.


He said it was all okay and he was more than happy to but yeah can imagine he’s busy


----------



## cip 123

For the price these will be, coulda just stuck with ibanez. Even just for 1 run. 

The m8m sold. And they must sell enough of those thundercat basses to warrant keeping it around.

J-craft, $3000+ standard-ish specs depending on what they can get away with. Save face a little.


----------



## iamaom

How well did TAMs sell?

Also, I'm sure if Tosin really wanted, a company like Kiesel or Strandberg would have been happy to take him and offer a custom made model.


----------



## BigViolin

I'd laugh if Ibanez said "hey, we're done now, finally got it finished" and just brought it to market like nothing happened.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

How long ago did he leave Ibanez? It really has been a rocky road getting this line going. I do remember some of the Ibanez prototypes having big neck pocket gaps so they may not have been the best option.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> How long ago did he leave Ibanez? It really has been a rocky road getting this line going. I do remember some of the Ibanez prototypes having big neck pocket gaps so they may not have been the best option.



Mid/late 2017.


----------



## Albake21

I remember meeting him (and funny enough Frank) in late 2017 and he was still with Ibanez. He might have unofficially left, but I think officially it wasn't until like December maybe even early 2018.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

It seems longer ago. Maybe it was the Falbo line having guitars at NAMM and taking orders so quickly.


----------



## spudmunkey

BigViolin said:


> I'd laugh if Ibanez said "hey, we're done now, finally got it finished" and just brought it to market like nothing happened.



Just pull a Costanza and pretend what happened was just a joke?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Albake21 said:


> I remember meeting him (and funny enough Frank) in late 2017 and he was still with Ibanez. He might have unofficially left, but I think officially it wasn't until like December maybe even early 2018.





He was shopping around new brands NAMM 2017 in January.

That TAM10 ceased production in 2016, and the last batch of TAM100s were delivered sometime around January of 2017 as far as I can tell, which means they were probably built late 2016.

It probably just took some time for Frank to build the first Proto.


----------



## cip 123

Lol


----------



## Vyn

This thread continues to make me smile on my way to work each morning.


----------



## cip 123

Vyn said:


> This thread continues to make me smile on my way to work each morning.


The gift that just keeps on giving


----------



## skmanga

did Falbo win?


----------



## cip 123

skmanga said:


> did Falbo win?


We'll probably never know.

This guitar has been in the works for a good while.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Wait, has anyone here actually ordered one of the Abasi's?


----------



## cip 123

The906 said:


> Wait, has anyone here actually ordered one of the Abasi's?


You fool, this is just a place to bitch about the specs we'd like to see added so we can ponder even longer before not actually buying one.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I ordered one and I know a few others who have too. What’s your question lol


----------



## Minute Man

Ordered one and got Grover saying a batch will go out in about 2 weeks on email.
.... Hopefully the first batch will deliver in this year...


----------



## Seabeast2000

glassmoon0fo said:


> I ordered one and I know a few others who have too. What’s your question lol


I just want to be excited vicariously.


----------



## Hollowway

I saw on FB that Elysian designed an Abasi-esque design, too. Maybe as show of solidarity with Frank, or maybe we’ll start seeing a few of these, kind of like how everyone started developing Strindberg inspired builds after Ola debuted.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> I saw on FB that Elysian designed an Abasi-esque design, too. Maybe as show of solidarity with Frank, or maybe we’ll start seeing a few of these, kind of like how everyone started developing Strindberg inspired builds after Ola debuted.



Is this the "I am Spartacus" way of protesting against Tosin?


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> Is this the "I am Spartacus" way of protesting against Tosin?


 maybe. I kind of took it that way, as it’s not like any of his other builds, design-wise, but does look a lot like the Abasi (and Falbo) model on the upper half.


----------



## noise in my mind

I wonder what the criteria is to be a Falbo guitar artist? Neoprene shoes? hipster glasses? Cringy pretentious philosophical statements?


----------



## narad

noise in my mind said:


> I wonder what the criteria is to be a Falbo guitar artist? Neoprene shoes? hipster glasses? Cringy pretentious philosophical statements?



You just described the entire industry.


----------



## Vyn

narad said:


> You just described the entire industry.



Actually Millennials with far too much disposable income and an Instagram/Youtube/Twitch account is the entire industry demographic at the moment.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Not gonna lie tho the Falbo Abasi style looks brilliant, I didn’t even know he was making solid body electrics because the website is all acoustics


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cip 123 said:


> Lol





Hollowway said:


> I saw on FB that Elysian designed an Abasi-esque design, too. Maybe as show of solidarity with Frank, or maybe we’ll start seeing a few of these, kind of like how everyone started developing Strindberg inspired builds after Ola debuted.



That's pretty tacky. 

That said, I wonder who will have a fully functional, high quality "Tosincaster" delivered to a customer first: Abasi, Falbo, or Elysian? 

THE RACE IS ON!


----------



## narad

Anyone going to throw up a picture here? Facebook pics still obey the rules of all pics.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Got to do something with all those leftover bodies and hardware I guess! Looks to have a different neck joint too.







New designed hardware as well.









I can't find anything on the Elysian page but I do see most of those first run Abasi's are still for sale on Reverb.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Lorcan Ward said:


> I can't find anything on the Elysian page but I do see most of those first run Abasi's are still for sale on Reverb.


It’s a boutique guitar company and the quality of these are kinda infamous a quick search and you’ll see a lot of negatives on them, I don’t know that these will ever sell


----------



## narad

Man, I still love this one. Wish it wasn't (a) shit, and (b) $6k.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jack McGoldrick said:


> It’s a boutique guitar company and the quality of these are kinda infamous a quick search and you’ll see a lot of negatives on them, I don’t know that these will ever sell



They're selling, just really slowly. I think there was 9 or 12 of them in that first batch. I know at least one guy on here bought one.


----------



## Geraldo7

I saw AaL on Monday in a club in Munich. AND Tosin played two of his guitars. 

Let me repeat: Tosin played two of his guitars. Live. Front row, I saw them with my own blue eyes.

Do I understand it correctly though that nobody here has received his ordered guitar yet?


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> They're selling, just really slowly. I think there was 9 or 12 of them in that first batch. I know at least one guy on here bought one.



I think there's literally like 9 still for sale around here. I've seen like 4 of them sell.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> I think there's literally like 9 still for sale around here. I've seen like 4 of them sell.



I wouldn't doubt it. It's hard to tell with all the resellers.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I remember one selling and then appeared back on reverb a few weeks later so it must have been returned. Rush building those to get them out to the Japanese market was a very costly lesson.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> I remember one selling and then appeared back on reverb a few weeks later so it must have been returned. Rush building those to get them out to the Japanese market was a very costly lesson.



It's only a lesson if you learn something.


----------



## possumkiller

Didn't Darren design that Agile headstock?


----------



## Zalbu

Am I a bad person if I feel a bit of schadenfreude over this whole situation when Tosin got Ibanez to design a completely new body shape for him, an 8 string ergonomic multiscale at that, just for him to drop Ibanez seemingly out of the blue to create his own company?

I hope everything is going to work out in the end for everybody involved, from Tosin to the customers, but it feels like there's some new spoke in the wheel every month or so.


----------



## Demiurge

^No, but unfortunately we all know that it's the customers who end up paying the price when a builder bites off more than they can chew.


----------



## Fred the Shred

We'll see what comes of this and whether the operation can ever gain proper traction and sales, but as far as I'm concerned, the sheer amount of ethical and production issues we've seen in such a short time does not bode well. At all.

I'm so blasé with the whole "mega hype / shit hits the fan" cycle that happens so often in this industry that I always have this calm "let's wait and see" outlook, and even so I got properly burned before by companies with a good reputation. As this particular story unfolds, I am just thankful this thread has provided me with endless pages of entertainment, I guess.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

possumkiller said:


> Didn't Darren design that Agile headstock?


Darren designed the whole Larada body, can see Tosin's original sketches on Darren's website, and CAD renders of the design. The original sketches are pretty rudimentary, and pretty different.


Hollowway said:


> maybe. I kind of took it that way, as it’s not like any of his other builds, design-wise, but does look a lot like the Abasi (and Falbo) model on the upper half.




The render I posted (on my personal page mind you) is based on a double cut headless I did, back in 2014.


However, I don't build guitars currently, so it's more a fleeting idea that may get made in the future, when I build again.


----------



## narad

EDIT: ah, edited the post while I was quoting it...


----------



## cardinal

narad said:


> Man, I still love this one. Wish it wasn't (a) shit, and (b) $6k.



Man I love this thing. Really pulling for this company to make it so these things can make it to production.


----------



## skmanga

Wonder what it's like for Tosin and Frank at Fishman


----------



## ElysianGuitars

This is the sketch by Tosin referenced in my last post, by the way.

View media item 2219


----------



## dwatkinsmusic

Honestly for me that Falbo headless single cut was what I was hoping this guitar would end up looking like all along. Always thought the design would look great headless, and the cut away is more elegant and fits the contours of the rest of the body better than the one on the Larada.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

noise in my mind said:


> I wonder what the criteria is to be a Falbo guitar artist? Neoprene shoes? hipster glasses? Cringy pretentious philosophical statements?



dude space lmao

That new neck joint looks sick tho.


----------



## Avedas

noise in my mind said:


> I wonder what the criteria is to be a Falbo guitar artist? Neoprene shoes? hipster glasses? Cringy pretentious philosophical statements?


The funny thing is despite all the people making fun of pretentious prog hipsters, they're not really any worse than metal bands with too much Latin or Lord of the Rings demon names in their song titles.

Is it really prog if nobody uses the phrase "ebb and flow" or talks about space?


----------



## noise in my mind

Avedas said:


> The funny thing is despite all the people making fun of pretentious prog hipsters, they're not really any worse than metal bands with too much Latin or Lord of the Rings demon names in their song titles.
> 
> Is it really prog if nobody uses the phrase "ebb and flow" or talks about space?



I dunno man, but multiverse and something about the skyline.


----------



## Hollowway

ElysianGuitars said:


> Darren designed the whole Larada body, can see Tosin's original sketches on Darren's website, and CAD renders of the design. The original sketches are pretty rudimentary, and pretty different.



Holy cow, I had no idea. Having not followed it that quickly, I thought the shape was drawn up by Ibanez. Has Darren been weighing in on this whole Abasi guitar thing? I don’t follow him on FB, and had no idea he was connected to it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Holy cow, I had no idea. Having not followed it that quickly, I thought the shape was drawn up by Ibanez. Has Darren been weighing in on this whole Abasi guitar thing? I don’t follow him on FB, and had no idea he was connected to it.



He's posted multiple renders of his ideal response to the situation. Unfortunately, nothing real has been posted yet.


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> He's posted multiple renders of his ideal response to the situation. Unfortunately, nothing real has been posted yet.



Oh, I heard he's already preparing a 30th anniversary commemoration of his editorial reply to the Abasi Guitars situation.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> Oh, I heard he's already preparing a 30th anniversary commemoration of his editorial reply to the Abasi Guitars situation.



Don't forget to buy your official "Darren's Response" t-shirts and picks.


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> He's posted multiple renders of his ideal response to the situation. Unfortunately, nothing real has been posted yet.


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> Oh, I heard he's already preparing a 30th anniversary commemoration of his editorial reply to the Abasi Guitars situation.


Oh how I miss being able to give positive rep!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Oh how I miss being able to give positive rep!



Cash works too.


----------



## Dayn

Zalbu said:


> Am I a bad person if I feel a bit of schadenfreude over this whole situation when Tosin got Ibanez to design a completely new body shape for him, an 8 string ergonomic multiscale at that, just for him to drop Ibanez seemingly out of the blue to create his own company?


Probably. No-one but Ibanez and Tosin are privy to their business dealings. All we can tell from what Tosin has said is that it was a venture that didn't pan out. It happens.


----------



## Lemonbaby

MaxOfMetal said:


> Don't forget to buy your official "Darren's Response" t-shirts and picks.


... with a low serial number, of course.


----------



## srrdude

Man, really think that falbo one looks better than the actual abasi stuff we've seen so far.


----------



## Minute Man

Geraldo7 said:


> I saw AaL on Monday in a club in Munich. AND Tosin played two of his guitars.
> 
> Let me repeat: Tosin played two of his guitars. Live. Front row, I saw them with my own blue eyes.
> 
> Do I understand it correctly though that nobody here has received his ordered guitar yet?



Those are still Falbo's build, I guess?

Grover's build is not yet finished.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

srrdude said:


> Man, really think that falbo one looks better than the actual abasi stuff we've seen so far.



It works much better as a headless. Is there a headless option for the Grover builds?


----------



## Veldar

cip 123 said:


> And they must sell enough of those thundercat basses to warrant keeping it around.



Kinda off topic but have you even seen one of Thundercat's sigs in the wild? There are 0 in Australia and we have just about every other Ibanez in production here.

I think they old 'produce' them because he's the biggest bassist in the world ATM. There were/are rumors about them being ghost build by other luthiers but if that means anything to anyone


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Veldar said:


> Kinda off topic but have you even seen one of Thundercat's sigs in the wild? There are 0 in Australia and we have just about every other Ibanez in production here.
> 
> I think they old 'produce' them because he's the biggest bassist in the world ATM. There were/are rumors about them being ghost build by other luthiers but if that means anything to anyone



They're built by Sugi and are to be made in small batches to order, just like the M8M.

I believe only a single batch was built and shipped. 

I wouldn't really consider this a "production" model. More like a custom with a set spec sheet.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Holy shit on that Thundercat.


----------



## Kaura

This shit starts to remind me of WWE. Suddenly Falbo is the good guy when he used to be the bad guy.


----------



## Fred the Shred

He would only be the bad guy if one was to take a single side's statements as unquestionably true. In WWE, the bad guy pops up and makes it blatantly obvious he IS the designated bad guy.


----------



## Randy

Kaura said:


> This shit starts to remind me of WWE. Suddenly Falbo is the good guy when he used to be the bad guy.



Bernie Rico Jr. comes running down the ramp with a folding chair.


----------



## Geraldo7

Minute Man said:


> Those are still Falbo's build, I guess?
> 
> Grover's build is not yet finished.



Good question. Those two beauties looked exactly like those of the NAMM show vids on YT. Does that mean they were Falbo`s? idk


----------



## StevenC

Geraldo7 said:


> Good question. Those two beauties looked exactly like those of the NAMM show vids on YT. Does that mean they were Falbo`s? idk


The ones Tosin is playing on live at the minute are supposed to be Grovers. The yellow one and I think it's a black one with the graphic top.


----------



## Vyn

There's a bit of a blurred line as to when the Falbo production ceased and when Grover took over. Weren't some of the Falbo builds completed by Vik at some stage? (I vaguely remember that name coming up earlier on in the thread when all the shit initially went down).


----------



## frank falbo

Yeah there’s a weird rumor that Vik helped or was involved in some way but it’s not true. He only made a single one-off pseudo double cutaway version with a pickguard, which I think he only showed in 1 Instagram story, a design project that he’d started a long time ago.


----------



## Fred the Shred

From what was implied, Vik's involvement was tied to design stage, not the actual construction of instruments.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Fred the Shred said:


> From what was implied, Vik's involvement was tied to design stage, not the actual construction of instruments.



Both Vik and Darren's involvement in this in some way just gives me heartburn. For real. 

Is there some unwritten law that you have to include at least one shady, fallen "insider" when starting/running a brand these days?

Who's next? Sims? Siggery? Or are we going to have to wait till they announce the partner for the import series is Emperion? Remember those chuckle-fucks?


----------



## Fred the Shred

MaxOfMetal said:


> Both Vik and Darren's involvement in this in some way just gives me heartburn. For real.
> 
> Is there some unwritten law that you have to include at least one shady, fallen "insider" when starting/running a brand these days?
> 
> Who's next? Sims? Siggery? Or are we going to have to wait till they announce the partner for the import series is Emperion? Remember those chuckle-fucks?



While most rumours are just that, it's so common to find any industry full of public virtue signaling and morally dirty private workings that whenever said rumours turn out to be true, any surprise or shock from me will be non-existent. The musical instruments industry in particular comprises many starving dogs fighting for very little available meat, and that tends to exacerabate this phenomenon of smoke and mirrors - everything is nice and glamorous on the outside, but once you get a glimpse of the inner workings and start pulling the thread to see where it goes... man, it's something.

Emperion... man, I am still in awe the guitar I got wasn't a massive steaming turd. What a shit show that was!


----------



## cip 123

So working with luthiers known to be on the sketchy side of business, very little work to show for all the hype, and still no actual idea what's going on?

Boy I can't wait to give these guys my money




EDIT:just posting the Vik for context for people who haven't seen it not to bring up a shit storm again.


----------



## Matt08642

Anyone who gives their money to anyone peddling one of these guitars at this point (after seeing this thread for.. 4 years?) is insane.


----------



## frank falbo

MaxOfMetal said:


> ...and Darren's involvement in this in some way just gives me heartburn. For real...



When Tosin first showed me the screenshot of the design while he was with Ibanez, and I was just there on behalf of Fluence, I knew it was a Darren design before he even said anything. I’ve known him since Jemsite, probably in the 1990s?

All I will say about that is, if you think about it, it’s Darren doing exactly what he _is _good at, which is being creative and doing design work. He wasn’t trying to make the guitar, and this was _after_ he had refunded people and was trying to make amends. Where Darren got into trouble was when he tried to build the guitars he designed.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

frank falbo said:


> When Tosin first showed me the screenshot of the design while he was with Ibanez, and I was just there on behalf of Fluence, I knew it was a Darren design before he even said anything. I’ve known him since Jemsite, probably in the 1990s?
> 
> All I will say about that is, if you think about it, it’s Darren doing exactly what he _is _good at, which is being creative and doing design work. He wasn’t trying to make the guitar, and this was _after_ he had refunded people and was trying to make amends. Where Darren got into trouble was when he tried to build the guitars he designed.



Darren is an amazing designer. That has never, ever been in question. 

He's also, unfortunately, not someone who _*I*_ would have warm and fuzzies supporting. 

That ship has sailed and it ain't coming back.

Not judging those who think otherwise, and I don't wish him any ill.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Yeah, the whole issue was tied to trying to materialize the concepts himself, which was his downfall. The design (and the actual Db3 I had) were sweet, so it was such a shame to see that go down the drain. Honestly, I'd love to see his ideas come to fruition, but it would have to come from a reputable shop - we now know his unfortunate dealings with depression and inability to tackle the entirety of the process on his own make it mandatory for him to focus on his more comfortable area of work.


----------



## Obsidian Soul

MaxOfMetal said:


> Both Vik and Darren's involvement in this in some way just gives me heartburn. For real.
> 
> Is there some unwritten law that you have to include at least one shady, fallen "insider" when starting/running a brand these days?
> 
> Who's next? Sims? Siggery? Or are we going to have to wait till they announce the partner for the import series is Emperion? Remember those chuckle-fucks?


Sims Custom Shop in TN?


----------



## narad

Fred the Shred said:


> Yeah, the whole issue was tied to trying to materialize the concepts himself, which was his downfall. The design (and the actual Db3 I had) were sweet, so it was such a shame to see that go down the drain. Honestly, I'd love to see his ideas come to fruition, but it would have to come from a reputable shop - we now know his unfortunate dealings with depression and inability to tackle the entirety of the process on his own make it mandatory for him to focus on his more comfortable area of work.



They'll go public domain by the time he's able to implement them.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Harsh!


----------



## TheTrve7

View media item 2223
That's not a good sign.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

^your photo album is private. What is the screenshot of?


----------



## TheTrve7

Sorry didn't catch that. Fixed now?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

It’s showing up now. That’s not good!!!!


----------



## narad

TheTrve7 said:


> View media item 2223
> That's not a good sign.



WHERE CAN I BUY ONE? WHAT'S THE PRICE?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> WHERE CAN I BUY ONE? WHAT'S THE PRICE?



Like shooting fish in a barrel.


----------



## Extrafunk

Just spotted one in the wild. Well, sorta, semi. One can clearly be seen in Jason Richardsons latest IG story...


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Keith Merrow did a video for them with that one and then it was passed on to Jason. It was built back in January, maybe earlier.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

They are extremely common amongst the social media posts made by internet-famous guitarists. 

In the real world, not so much unfortunately.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

It’s been too quiet


----------



## Minute Man

There was an official order update email from Abasi Concepts yesterday. Orders before 3/24 are the 1st batch, 8 strings rolling out with most of them still in paint jobs. 6 strings of the 1st batch (seem not in the batch ) and other orders are uncertain and refundable. Will shift to an inventory-based business model.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Minute Man said:


> 6 strings of the 1st batch (seem not in the batch ) and other orders are uncertain and refundable.



Not again


----------



## Fred the Shred

How surprising.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Inventory based makes sense, might make it easier to get them once they get the first load shifted


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Minute Man said:


> There was an official order update email from Abasi Concepts yesterday. Orders before 3/24 are the 1st batch, 8 strings rolling out with most of them still in paint jobs. 6 strings of the 1st batch (seem not in the batch ) and other orders are uncertain and refundable. Will shift to an inventory-based business model.



Well, that just sucks huge balls


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Minute Man said:


> There was an official order update email from Abasi Concepts yesterday. Orders before 3/24 are the 1st batch, 8 strings rolling out with most of them still in paint jobs. 6 strings of the 1st batch (seem not in the batch ) and other orders are uncertain and refundable. Will shift to an inventory-based business model.



It took them all this time to give people an update? Going inventory-based will surely help, but that won't fix their non-existant customer communications strategy.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> It took them all this time to give people an update? Going inventory-based will surely help, but that won't fix their non-existant customer communications strategy.



Yeah, I don't know what's the problem with late replying. I understand that you can be busy as hell with life, career and whatever but good customer service and communication is a basic thing if you want to remain strong and respectful in the community, IMO. 

And if things are terrible AGAIN, then they should really consider doing refunds as soon as possible. This is going to be tragic in consequences. (well I hope not but you know the drill)


----------



## Minute Man

Tosin and Ivan were both touring... Mr. Grover could’ve flooded by emails. Can’t really judge the load, not knowing exact how many 8s in the 1st batch... 
Might be a good news they shift to inventory-based with mass production outsourcing. Like Solar guitars or what. Maybe cheaper, quicker...?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

The people who handle communications and those who define the business model seem to be in over their heads. Looking at the current market it seems like the made-to-order model is hard to pull off for a starting company. New companies like Solar guitars have clearly stated that their model would be solely production with a possibility of made-to-order in the far future if the company is in good health. When Abasi launched their guitars, Strandberg had closed their custom shops because of the difficulties of balancing large order volumes with short lead times and good quality control. IMO there were a couple signs that this business model would be hard to pull off. That being said, I wish them the best for the future.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> The people who handle communications and those who define the business model seem to be in over their heads. Looking at the current market it seems like the made-to-order model is hard to pull off for a starting company. New companies like Solar guitars have clearly stated that their model would be solely production with a possibility of made-to-order in the far future if the company is in good health. When Abasi launched their guitars, Strandberg had closed their custom shops because of the difficulties of balancing large order volumes with short lead times and good quality control. IMO there were a couple signs that this business model would be hard to pull off. That being said, I wish them the best for the future.



Sure, I wish them all the best too. But some things just need to work properly, otherwise you'll be fucked.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

When I emailed Ivan he said he’d been away so that wouldn’t have helped...


----------



## Fred the Shred

I understand it's a small business and all that, but either you let the public know that your customer support will be unavailable during a given time period (which, honestly, is only remedial) or you ensure that, albeit not at top performance, you are replying to the buyers at the very least, as it's their money you have taken for a product that, through no fault of said customers, has a delayed delivery to be sorted.

This only consolidates my opinion regarding this: there's a noticeable problem tied to lack of knowledge and experience in the field, which has created an unrealistically optimistic outlook on how long it takes a small operation to prepare and optimize the production process to even think about producing and delivering significant numbers, and I see the same mistake twice - once with Falbo, the other with Grover. I understand how you'd want to expedite ROI, but not being conservative regarding when an operation is capable to go out there and accept a significant number of orders is begging for tremendous damage to reputation due to the very high chance of things going south.


----------



## diagrammatiks

I don’t know if it’s a lack of knowledge. 

These guys keep trying to run the companies on deposits. 

If you are going to put out 300k of product you better have 500k of funding already available.


----------



## srrdude

Remember 8 weeks ago when they said the first ones were shipping out that friday or monday? That was cute.


----------



## cip 123

I always get excited when I see this page bumped to the top.


----------



## iamaom

Minute Man said:


> Like Solar guitars or what. Maybe cheaper, quicker...?


I wish they'd do that, then I could actually afford one.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Just let Indonesia do the whole work. Everybody is doing it anyways


----------



## spudmunkey

What they need, is an Indigogo campaign. /s


----------



## Fred the Shred

Well, Black Friday is nearer and nearer...


----------



## Soya

iamaom said:


> I wish they'd do that, then I could actually afford one.


And they might actually exist


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Soya said:


> And they might actually exist


oooh shit, mah boii Soya out here with the real burns


----------



## ramses

Fred the Shred said:


> Well, Black Friday is nearer and nearer...



I'm in!


----------



## StevenC




----------



## Soya

Hahaha oh man that's wonderful


----------



## Seabeast2000

No way.


----------



## Vyn

StevenC said:


> View attachment 72293



Oh fuck. Wow.


----------



## technomancer

Yeah pro tip, when a musician doing custom guitars is on his second failed venture with well-known figures in the guitar industry, the problem likely isn't the builders


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Anyone know when the next break in is scheduled for? Maybe they'll live stream it on Facebook.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Came here to see if people mentioned that post. Yikes... scouring your friends list for lawyers instead of seeking one out personally seems pretty out there. I guarantee there is the opposite of a shortage of lawyers in cali. 

I love tosin, but I feel he just needs to refund everything and quit trying for guitar sales. Ola, a much smaller artist, was able to get shit rolling with significantly less issues. (Ie: no issues) 100% red flags everywhere. Not even just red flags, but red flags on fire screaming "stay the fuck away!" It's downright foolish to throw money their way at this point. 

Probably shouldn't have left ibby. I really hope he doesn't run his name into the ground, if he hasn't already.


----------



## ramses

I'm guessing he is trolling people that love Internet gossip.

On the other hand, there is enough evidence that in 2016 I somehow woke up in a weird alternate timeline. So, it may be a serious post.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

There's amateur hour and then there's this.

At every step they do literally the opposite of what should be done.

Not really much else to it. They just seem to lack the maturity and acumen required. 

Oh well, at least he's still got the whole guitar playing thing to fall back on.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

I just don’t know how or why it took so long to get to the idea of the inventory model. I know that the internet is famous for its “I’d have bought one if the specs were XYZ” attitude, but building in batches of 10 or whatever scale a shop can manage and then releasing them would have made far more sense. Hell as others have said, at this stage, sticking with Ibanez would have made far more sense.

Not to go too far off track but this just shows how much discipline someone like Daemoness guitars must have to still restrict numbers after all these years and such a waiting list...


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Imagine the Larada being the new jem

#bringbackibby


----------



## Fred the Shred

Ah, I love this forum.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Who doesn't


----------



## thesnowdog

Señor Voorhees said:


> Ola, a much smaller artist, was able to get shit rolling with significantly less issues. (Ie: no issues)



Well Ola was an accountant by trade IIRC...


----------



## Wildebeest

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Imagine the Larada being the new jem
> 
> #bringbackibby


Whenever I come back to this thread I think about how his Larada styled Ibanez would probably be in stores by now. It's been maybe 3 years since Ibanez first built that shape for him. He had at least 2 prototypes already built.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

thesnowdog said:


> Well Ola was an accountant by trade IIRC...



That surely helps, but that's the money side of things. It helps that he had guitars to sell as he announced it. I honestly don't get the "give us money now, the guitars are coming" mentality. Even if you're gonna offer custom options, why not treat it like any big shop. Production models making up the vast majority of things, then offer customs at a mark up. 

Just seems insane to offer stuff for sale when you have nothing to sell.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Señor Voorhees said:


> That surely helps, but that's the money side of things. It helps that he had guitars to sell as he announced it. I honestly don't get the "give us money now, the guitars are coming" mentality. Even if you're gonna offer custom options, why not treat it like any big shop. Production models making up the vast majority of things, then offer customs at a mark up.
> 
> Just seems insane to offer stuff for sale when you have nothing to sell.


Ola also went to an established company that already did ghostbuilding, with a design that wasn't a million miles away from what they already make.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Doesn't change the fact that he had his shit ready before he took money from people.


----------



## Albake21

Señor Voorhees said:


> Doesn't change the fact that he had his shit ready before he took money from people.


Yeah going the custom route here was I think the biggest downfall. Should have just done either production models or built several customs and then sold them. Coming out of the gate without anything in hand for customers was a poor decision. I'm still hopeful this brand can still work, but after one more failure, 3 strikes and you're out.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Re: the post Tosin made about geting a lawyer, hoo boy there's plenty to unpack there.

If he's legitimately going to the internet to look for one instead of searching for one like, you know, a human being, then that is both funny and scary. It reads way more like a passive-aggressive angsty post that has the sub-text of "yo I'm not telling the people I plan on sewing directly that I'm sewing them, but I know they'll see this and fuck those guys I'm sewing them!" Super mature, would go into business with. And lastly, sew everyone! 'Murica!


----------



## kisielk

This thread title is going to need more [ ] 's


----------



## diagrammatiks

Albake21 said:


> Yeah going the custom route here was I think the biggest downfall. Should have just done either production models or built several customs and then sold them. Coming out of the gate without anything in hand for customers was a poor decision. I'm still hopeful this brand can still work, but after one more failure, 3 strikes and you're out.



Production models need funding and investment.

you can't just give wmi a deposit for one guitar and expect them to get to work.


----------



## JSanta

diagrammatiks said:


> Production models need funding and investment.
> 
> you can't just give wmi a deposit for one guitar and expect them to get to work.



Right, but this was not a GoFundMe endeavor. That type of investment cannot be made via deposits when there may not be a product to deliver.


----------



## jaxadam

Looking on ss.org for a litigator licensed to practice on the Internet. Asking for a friend.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

To be fair, the litigator thing may be royalties or music business related, not Abasi Concepts related. It's still bad optics to post that though with all the issues and delays.


----------



## prlgmnr

BlackMastodon said:


> Re: the post Tosin made about geting a lawyer, hoo boy there's plenty to unpack there.
> 
> If he's legitimately going to the internet to look for one instead of searching for one like, you know, a human being, then that is both funny and scary. It reads way more like a passive-aggressive angsty post that has the sub-text of "yo I'm not telling the people I plan on sewing directly that I'm sewing them, but I know they'll see this and fuck those guys I'm sewing them!" Super mature, would go into business with. And lastly, sew everyone! 'Murica!


sounds like a stitch-up


----------



## MaxOfMetal

kisielk said:


> This thread title is going to need more [ ] 's



Sadly, I've reached the character limit. 

{Still}[Not] New Tosin Abasi signature {Still} [maybe] in the works - Abasi Guitars[Concepts] w/[out] Frank Falbo But {Still?} Grover Jackson


----------



## GunpointMetal

BlackMastodon said:


> And lastly, sew everyone! 'Murica!


 I wanna see someone sew everyone.


----------



## Albake21

MaxOfMetal said:


> Sadly, I've reached the character limit.
> 
> {Still}[Not] New Tosin Abasi signature {Still} [maybe] in the works - Abasi Guitars[Concepts] w/[out] Frank Falbo But {Still?} Grover Jackson


I say just keep it for memories sake then.


----------



## Seabeast2000

GunpointMetal said:


> I wanna see someone sew everyone.



What a thread


----------



## Lemonbaby

diagrammatiks said:


> Production models need funding and investment.
> 
> you can't just give wmi a deposit for one guitar and expect them to get to work.


Sorry to be that guy, but if you can't invest 50k Dollars for a small run of 50-100 guitars, you probably shouldn't start a business in the first place. Funding your production with partial pre-payments is a ponzy scheme, not a business model.


----------



## Soya

ElysianGuitars said:


> To be fair, the litigator thing may be royalties or music business related, not Abasi Concepts related. It's still bad optics to post that though with all the issues and delays.


Although, wouldn't any problems related to their music be handled by their label's lawyers? Although, I suppose if they're wanting to sue Sumerian....


----------



## cip 123

At this point I'm going to have started my own guitar company before this is off the ground...

I'll have a lawyer on retainer though.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Soya said:


> Although, wouldn't any problems related to their music be handled by their label's lawyers? Although, I suppose if they're wanting to sue Sumerian....


Don't really have any kind of insider info, just devils advocate I guess. I did see this though:




Ronald Bienstock is a pretty big deal. His site doesn't list Grover as a client, so there's no way to confirm whether it's related to the guitars or not.

https://scarincihollenbeck.com/attorneys/ronald-s-bienstock/


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

ElysianGuitars said:


> Don't really have any kind of insider info, just devils advocate I guess. I did see this though:
> 
> View attachment 72326
> 
> 
> Ronald Bienstock is a pretty big deal. His site doesn't list Grover as a client, so there's no way to confirm whether it's related to the guitars or not.
> 
> https://scarincihollenbeck.com/attorneys/ronald-s-bienstock/



People make bad joke about turning it up to 11 but MY GOD


----------



## StevenC

GunpointMetal said:


> I wanna see someone sew everyone.


There's a movie about that I think


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Don't get me wrong, I really am hoping for the best, but even the best case scenario for tosin looking for a lawer on facebook isn't good.

The silver lining is that they outright mentioned "refunds" to the orders they're planning on abandoning. It's not great, but I'm thinking (maybe hoping?) that the fact that they're going for an in-stock model and cancelling the initial orders and stating from the get go that they're refunding deposits is a bitter-sweet outcome. People might have to settle for something different/not get anything at all, but if people get their money back, then that's a great thing in my eyes. Certainly starting on a better foot than something like s7g who took people's money, lost their shit one way or another, then started taking new orders before fulfilling old ones as if tragedy absolves you from filling past commitments.

Abasi concepts still has room to make it right, but they're very much on shaky/disolving/disolved grounds, imo. I certainly won't be buying anything from them until they get on more sure grounds. (though, to be honest, I'm not in the market for guitars 2k+ anyway, so I'm likely to not buy anything regardless.) My broke ass has a hard time justifying anything over $1300 for anything "high end," and that's nothing compared to what most people consider high end.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I was wondering why Grover was doing more work for Dave Friedman than there was Abasi guitars being sent out.

I uh... Guess this explains why.


----------



## wannabguitarist

ElysianGuitars said:


> Don't really have any kind of insider info, just devils advocate I guess. I did see this though:
> 
> View attachment 72326
> 
> 
> Ronald Bienstock is a pretty big deal. His site doesn't list Grover as a client, so there's no way to confirm whether it's related to the guitars or not.
> 
> https://scarincihollenbeck.com/attorneys/ronald-s-bienstock/



Jesus fucking Christ 

"Yeah the individual my client is suing/getting sued by just posted on Facebook asking for a litigator. I'm feeling pretty good about this case."


----------



## jaxadam

cip 123 said:


> At this point I'm going to have started my own guitar company before this is off the ground...
> 
> I'll have a lawyer on retainer though.



The best guitar companies are run by lawyers and hype men, not players.

I’m actually afraid of getting sued just for posting in this thread!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

thesnowdog said:


> Well Ola IS an accountant by trade IIRC...


he's still an accountant. Metal don't pay the bills yo


----------



## Vyn

KnightBrolaire said:


> he's still an accountant. Metal don't pay the bills yo



Actually he doesn't do that work anymore in a traditional sense, he just runs Solar Guitars and does YouTube now. Can't remember when however in an FAQ a while ago he mentioned he quit his day job at the company he worked for.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Vyn said:


> Actually he doesn't do that work anymore in a traditional sense, he just runs Solar Guitars and does YouTube now. Can't remember when however in an FAQ a while ago he mentioned he quit his day job at the company he worked for.


I thought he still did freelance accounting or something.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

KnightBrolaire said:


> I thought he still did freelance accounting or something.



He said he planned on doing that, but eventually just quit doing it entirely. He said it timed perfectly with Chris Barnes asking him to join SFU.

But yeah, Ola did everything right with Solar Guitars. Plan everything before revealing shit. 

Have the models already designed, have them built and ready to ship, have a release date ready, and THEN have the big reveal. Sell everything in batches to check for hype, and if they do well, THEN make them full production models.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Lemonbaby said:


> Sorry to be that guy, but if you can't invest 50k Dollars for a small run of 50-100 guitars, you probably shouldn't start a business in the first place. Funding your production with partial pre-payments is a ponzy scheme, not a business model.



That’s what I’m saying. 

Why don’t people stop doing this.


----------



## Vyn

diagrammatiks said:


> That’s what I’m saying.
> 
> Why don’t people stop doing this.



+1 

Doesn't even matter if it wasn't guitars, starting a company with less than $50k US capital on hand is fucking suicide.


----------



## Hollowway

Based on that Bienstock thing, he could be representing Grover, Falbo, or Ibanez. It’s not like lawsuits move quickly, so who knows - it could be Ibanez going after Tosin. Bienstock did used to work for Hoshino/Ibanez....


----------



## Hollowway

diagrammatiks said:


> That’s what I’m saying.
> 
> Why don’t people stop doing this.



Cuz people like us keep giving them money. But, I am done with that. I’ve been fucked by small time luthiers too many times. Granted, it was all back years ago (in the BRJ era) but still.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Ola had also recently made a calling in to work joke in a recent faq, which amounted to him calling himself or some such.


----------



## Demiurge

So, when a new builder takes over, do the serial numbers reset?


----------



## prlgmnr

Demiurge said:


> So, when a new builder takes over, do the serial numbers reset?


All extant Laradas in the wild have serial number "000001"


----------



## cardinal

All so sad. Beautiful design, whoever came up with it. Really sucks if it doesn't actually see the light of day because the business folks just can't sort it out.


----------



## Avedas

AliExpress builders have successfully copied a guitar that doesn't even exist. What a world we live in.

Does it even count as a copy if it was the first to be made?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Anyone have the copy? What’s it like body shape wise?


----------



## jaxadam

Hey guys! Looking for a luthier licensed to practice building guitars in the state of China. Asking for a friend of a friend.


----------



## jephjacques

Hey y'all havent checked on this thread in a while, anything new going o-

oh

oh _no_


----------



## Tsathoggua

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Anyone have the copy? What’s it like body shape wise?


Curious about this as well. Though some of the copies look like they absolutely slathered the neck in clearcoat.


----------



## Lemonbaby

prlgmnr said:


> All extant Laradas in the wild have serial number "000001"


Due to popular demand, new guitar brands should go for this numbering scheme:
1
01
001
0001
00001
...


----------



## BlackMastodon

BlackMastodon said:


> Re: the post Tosin made about geting a lawyer, hoo boy there's plenty to unpack there.
> 
> If he's legitimately going to the internet to look for one instead of searching for one like, you know, a human being, then that is both funny and scary. It reads way more like a passive-aggressive angsty post that has the sub-text of "yo I'm not telling the people I plan on sewing directly that I'm sewing them, but I know they'll see this and fuck those guys I'm sewing them!" Super mature, would go into business with. And lastly, sew everyone! 'Murica!


Sueing/sue*


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

BlackMastodon said:


> Sueing/sue*


Spelling miztakes everywhere I’d just leave it


----------



## BlackMastodon

It's all I really have to contribute.  The thought of getting one of these never crossed my mind when they were gonna be $6k Ibanezes but at least those existed.


----------



## spudmunkey

Lemonbaby said:


> Due to popular demand, new guitar brands should go for this numbering scheme:
> 1
> 01
> 001
> 0001
> 00001
> ...



"That's the tab of what all the millennials will only be playing on it anyway" - some boomer, probably


----------



## Albake21

I'm just sitting with my popcorn in my hands for Tosin or Ivan to show up to this shit storm with a response. Might not happen, but I'm hopeful. They did surprise me last time.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Albake21 said:


> I'm just sitting with my popcorn in my hands for Tosin or Ivan to show up to this shit storm with a response. Might not happen, but I'm hopeful. They did surprise me last time.



They're all propably just sitting somewhere vaping and laughing at us


----------



## Opion

Wait, WHAT THE HELL is going on? Is Abasi guitars getting sued, and they're shipping orders complete/some incomplete, and refunding what they couldn't produce? This is a travesty...


----------



## Hollowway

Opion said:


> Wait, WHAT THE HELL is going on? Is Abasi guitars getting sued, and they're shipping orders complete/some incomplete, and refunding what they couldn't produce? This is a travesty...



No, we don't know that. We have 3x10^4 pages of us trying to figure out what is going on. It's a who dunnit TV series with several directors, no real plot line, and a meandering, frustrating script. The 4th wall has long been broken, and you can walk on set at any point, and join the fray.


----------



## Seabeast2000

It's as well thought out as a Netflix Original.


----------



## Opion

Hollowway said:


> No, we don't know that. We have 3x10^4 pages of us trying to figure out what is going on. It's a who dunnit TV series with several directors, no real plot line, and a meandering, frustrating script. The 4th wall has long been broken, and you can walk on set at any point, and join the fray.



Yeah, I haven't visited this thread in a while and looks like even more shit hit the fan when he posted that status looking for a litigator. Welp, time to wait this out yet again.


----------



## cip 123

Opion said:


> Yeah, I haven't visited this thread in a while and looks like even more shit hit the fan when he posted that status looking for a litigator. Welp, time to wait this out yet again.


Just because Tosin is looking for a litigator doesn't mean abasi is bring sued. 

Though there are legal issues from the original debacle with Falbo, it's unclear what it's about.

And as far as I can tell no orders are being shipped.


----------



## Demiurge

The906 said:


> It's as well thought out as a Netflix Original.



13 Reasons Why (You're Not Getting the Guitar You Paid For)


----------



## Hollowway

Anyone want to take a crack at this?


----------



## cip 123

Hollowway said:


> Anyone want to take a crack at this?



Things you wouldn't hear in an Abasi Concepts business meeting.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

cip 123 said:


> Things you wouldn't hear in an Abasi Concepts business meeting.



"We finally managed to ship out our first batch."


----------



## Avedas

"Done"


----------



## MrWulf

"We will make sure all of our instruments hit the hand of the customers first"


----------



## narad

ChugThisBoy said:


> They're all propably just sitting somewhere vaping and laughing at us



Well they do seem experienced with vaporware.


----------



## BlackMastodon

"Welcome to beginner luthiery, where the guitars aren't real and the customers don't matter."


----------



## Tsathoggua

narad said:


> Well they do seem experienced with vaporware.


Now we know the reason for the name change to Abasi *Concepts*.


----------



## Extrafunk

Bienstock has ties to Ibanez - this could be good fun...


----------



## j3ps3

LEAVE TOSIN ALONE


----------



## Vyn

This thread has become better than the official SSO Memes thread in the Off Topic forum.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Man, I take a week off- I leave you guys alone _*for one week*_... 
The mental image I have associated with this disaster is of a teenager running an unlicensed preschool because she babysat her neighbor's kids one time and that went fine, but now there's screaming children running around the house breaking things and she's got no idea what to do about it to such an extent that she's given up, sat down on the couch, and proceeded to get stoned and watch _Divorce Court_; tuning out and ignoring the mayhem.





You know, I tried to really examine the whole situation- weigh the perspectives of everyone involved and really try to determine who was in the right at first...but at this point, I don't care anymore. It's literally turned into a TV show as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## SDMFVan

I'm not a rocket scientist, but logic would indicate that if Tosin is looking for an attorney and "the other side" already has one, then Tosin is the one being sued.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

SDMFVan said:


> I'm not a rocket scientist, but logic would indicate that if Tosin is looking for an attorney and "the other side" already has one, then Tosin is the one being sued.



Oh damn the rest of us are stupid, Falbo’s lack of rumour campaign was a good idea as everyone realised, and I don’t want abasi concepts to go under because it’s sad when any small business doesn’t make it (and I want one)


----------



## MrWulf

So how many album Tosin have to record to offset whatever legal cost is going to incur with this?


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

AAL seems like a pretty good money maker for him along with his other investments so probably not that many.


----------



## axxessdenied

Who goes on facebook to look for a lawyer? That's like telling the other person they've won before even getting started.


----------



## spudmunkey

axxessdenied said:


> Who goes on facebook to look for a lawyer? That's like telling the other person they've won before even getting started.


 It could have also been a joke… something sarcastic about the situation in which he finds himself.


----------



## axxessdenied

A Joke? Like Abasic Concepts?


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

axxessdenied said:


> A Joke? Like Abasic Concepts?



ayy gottem


----------



## Hollowway

spudmunkey said:


> It could have also been a joke… something sarcastic about the situation in which he finds himself.



I’m 99% sure it’s a joke. From what I can tell, Tosin isn’t such a newb that he’d post that if he really needed one. Plus, after what he was doing with Falbo, it’s clear he already has one. So, it’s got to be an inside joke for those who know him well enough to know exactly what he has going on at the moment.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Hollowway said:


> I’m 99% sure it’s a joke. From what I can tell, Tosin isn’t such a newb that he’d post that if he really needed one. Plus, after what he was doing with Falbo, it’s clear he already has one. So, it’s got to be an inside joke for those who know him well enough to know exactly what he has going on at the moment.



Yeah but.. why doing so? He already got the attention


----------



## BlackMastodon

Posting inside jokes online is lame as shit. Case in point, don't think anyone here thought it was a joke at first. Also I'm not entirely convinced he's properly lawyered up for The Falbo Debacle (name of his next album?). I dunno anymore, I ate my free hunk of bread and now I wanna see blood!


----------



## plainfaced

OK.. So ive only just read the last page of this thread.. and by the looks of it, I have a lot of catching up to do, with the state of Abasi guitars..

Who can provide me a tl;dr version in two lines? - 

All I know is that when Tosin left Ibanez, he created his own guitars with another luthier, and they were shipping ages ago?


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Hollowway said:


> I’m 99% sure it’s a joke. From what I can tell, Tosin isn’t such a newb that he’d post that if he really needed one. Plus, after what he was doing with Falbo, it’s clear he already has one. So, it’s got to be an inside joke for those who know him well enough to know exactly what he has going on at the moment.


I feel like if it were a joke, Bienstock wouldn't be commenting on the thread about how he's on the other side. Tosin is legit looking for a lawyer on Facebook. It would be a terrible joke anyways, considering the history of Abasi Concepts, I would hope he wouldn't shoot himself in the foot that way.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The fact no one knows for sure either way, joke or serious, is a pretty good snapshot of how sorry the state of affairs are.


----------



## Minute Man

plainfaced said:


> OK.. So ive only just read the last page of this thread.. and by the looks of it, I have a lot of catching up to do, with the state of Abasi guitars..
> 
> Who can provide me a tl;dr version in two lines? -
> 
> All I know is that when Tosin left Ibanez, he created his own guitars with another luthier, and they were shipping ages ago?



"Building at later stages" only for 8 strings ordered before 3/24.
Other orders are TBD.


----------



## Hollowway

plainfaced said:


> Who can provide me a tl;dr version in two lines?



TL;DR - Tosin took the design from Ibanez, then hired Frank Falbo to make the guitars, presumably because he was either pissed off that Ibanez was taking so long to release it, (or something else?) or because he wanted his own guitar company. But, something happened (where apparently Falbo spent the capital he was given, and couldn’t finish the guitars without more money, leading to Tosin breaking into Falbo’s shop and taking the partially built guitars and perhaps equipment) which led to a personal and legal fallout between Tosin and Frank, causing Tosin (who was once again looking for a luthier to helm the ship) to hire Grover Jackson.

I tried, man, but there might be some distorted facts and maybe a run on sentence.

Tune in tomorrow when I’ll summarize the important plot points and symbolism in Breaking Bad using just a single haiku!

Succinctly yours,
Hollowway


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> TL;DR - Tosin took the design from Ibanez, then hired Frank Falbo to make the guitars, presumably because he was either pissed off that Ibanez was taking so long to release it, (or something else?) or because he wanted his own guitar company. But, something happened (where apparently Falbo spent the capital he was given, and couldn’t finish the guitars without more money, leading to Tosin breaking into Falbo’s shop and taking the partially built guitars and perhaps equipment) which led to a personal and legal fallout between Tosin and Frank, causing Tosin (who was once again looking for a luthier to helm the ship) to hire Grover Jackson.
> 
> I tried, man, but there might be some distorted facts and maybe a run on sentence.
> 
> Tune in tomorrow when I’ll summarize the important plot points and symbolism in Breaking Bad using just a single haiku!
> 
> Succinctly yours,
> Hollowway



tl;dr - Tosin, or perhaps his representatives, just seems to be difficult to work with. 

Perhaps it's strict adherence to an artistic vision as seen through the eyes of a perfectionist...or something. 

Ibanez has been at the guitar thing for awhile. Falbo has a pretty solid reputation within the industry (SD and Fishman), same with Jackson. 

Or it's just cursed. I'm going with cursed.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Yup, that's the main picture I suppose. Thing's that are happening behind the curtain will never see the light of a day. Unless Tosin will get drunk again and start posting stuff here.
We'll never know, we'll never know...

I hope that somebody is writing the script for TV series based on this thread, ay?


----------



## Fred the Shred

Ibanez had, as any company will in its time, some changes regarding AR, which may have contributed to the whole ordeal, yet this is me just speaking of a possible contributing factor. Frank is a highly reputable individual, and his track record (which continues in the present day) has one negative review, which is from a company with no commercially available instruments after the second iteration in terms of operation. Grover has an established operation, producing runs of guitars for the likes of Friedman with continued success, so I'm sorry to say the tl;dr for me is "it's not the luthiers, guys".


----------



## ElysianGuitars

If reasonable lead times were set we likely wouldn't be discussing any of this right now... The instant gratification crowd founded a guitar company and found out these things take time.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ElysianGuitars said:


> If reasonable lead times were set we likely wouldn't be discussing any of this right now... The instant gratification crowd founded a guitar company and found out these things take time.



To be fair, I doubt they had a gun to Frank's head when the arrangements were coming together.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

MaxOfMetal said:


> To be fair, I doubt they had a gun to Frank's head when the arrangements were coming together.


The relaunch had 10-12 weeks, which is still ludicrous. Frank had nothing to do with that.


----------



## Fred the Shred

That is assuming that the arrangement was actually honored by the other proponents - if there is a proposition for X units in Y amount of time with Z money to do so and the money doesn't make it into the builder's account for parts and labour, you can bet date Y is not going to be a thing, and this is but one of many examples leading to failed delivery regarding quantity / quality / timing. Earlier in the thread when people had the pitchforks out for Falbo the production of conclusive evidence was a recurring theme whenever a defense was presented, and things went completely off the rails when accusations of embezzlement took place and immediately taken as "the truth" TM, yet not one evidence of the payment was presented, even though people were keen on hunting shit like Frank's suspended business and eviction order.

As such, I am not one to believe things are that linear when a) an accusation of embezzlement (that is defamation if you can't substantiate it, and that's a crime in these parts) comes up yet no proof is ever presented and while I have Tosin in the highest regard as an artist, that bears zero weight in a dispute such as this and b) the timing of said eviction notice coming up being suggestive of the advance not having been honoured leaving Falbo Guitars in a compromised state.

I have no horse in this race, but as I've stated before, this whole situation was giving me the feeling that the proposed schedules were not only incredibly ambitious but also something that was an indication of an optimism and level of demand implying a tremendous investment in a large scale production line capable of withstanding a colossal workload, and all it took was being at NAMM to understand exactly how fucked up everything was shaping up to be: from instruments that had an insane building schedule being presented to Zombie Falbo pulling all nighters to sort shit and complete other guitars, only the expectation of that being the result of an arduous stretch to create hype and interest kept me from concluding this was a disaster in the making from the get go. Add the whole fiasco followed by meltdown followed by yet another completely unreasonable proposed relaunch date and said expectation proved false.

The way I see this, 2 of the parties involved in this have a very long and established track record, they failed to deliver on the proposed timeline, and there is one factor in common in between both botched timelines, and it definitely isn't the operation producing the instruments, so while this isn't necessarily some exclusive issue with the remaining core of Abasi Concepts, there is no way to somehow go and pin this ordeal on Frank Falbo and use that as an explanation for the current mess.


----------



## Hollowway

The one thing this DOES show us is how dialed in places like WMI, Cor-Tek (even Kiesel) are. When a single luthier can't get a small batch of guitars done in a short amount of time, it really makes you respect how a large company, with different levels of QC, different designs, multiple employees, HR, etc. etc. can just crank day after day. It's no wonder so many companies just let them do the ghost building.


----------



## A-Branger

maybe Tosin had un-realistic expectations of time builds? (like majority of people who buys a guitar from a small luthier/custom shop/this brand/any place thats not a guitar store)

and by "un-realistic" I mean "realistic times", like a reasonable time to get a guitar build, but not reasonable for "real world", things get dragged sooooo easily, from running a bussines, repliying an email, going to the store to buy something, waiting on X part to arrive in the mail, things to get dry, things to get side-tracked done while original things gets dry, having 5 extra minuted of lunch, someone decided to call and having to be by the phone for 20 min, new guy in the shop take 2x times longer to sand stuff, 10 min wasted tryign to find the X tool that should ahve been in the Y spot, ect ect ect. Just because technically a guitar should take XX time to get build, doesnt mean that a small batch of guitar should take the same XX for each. You would be surprised how much longer takes to do stuff in a small shop and how many "distractions" can happen


----------



## Jonathan20022

Lead times generally fall under the responsibility of manufacturers and suppliers and not the execs and marketers selling us products. The best the latter can do is make a generalized statement like "On average custom guitars can take between 6 - 8 months to produce if you look at the entire market.

If the supplier can't provide the parts in their allotted estimate, then it's not the manufacturers fault. Aka a builder having a Guitar ready to go but waiting an extra month on bridge/tuners, vice versa the supplier can't be at fault when the manufacturer has all needed components and can't meet their own deadlines. I think people really need to understand who to blame when things go south in an attempt to bring a product to the market.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I can’t imagine that the issue here is that Frank agreed to an overly optimistic timeline. He’s been building long enough if he couldn’t do it, he’d just say, “I can’t build that fast.”


----------



## Jonathan20022

And to be fair too, if the folks coordinating production for a product present unrealistic lead times to the manufacturer and their response isn't to increase those lead times and instead accept it with the insurmountable amount of experience they have, then they are at fault as well (mostly I'd argue).

Both Grover and Falbo are longtime luthiers, I find it weird that they didn't just propose a shift in the lead time when that was even suggested. Tosin can gauge the market response based on his signature guitar sales and try to understand the workload of initial orders, and they both should have understood how many guitars they could churn out on a regular basis and adjust the amount and lead times accordingly. It's hard to believe no one thought of nor suggested this at any point.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jonathan20022 said:


> Lead times generally fall under the responsibility of manufacturers and suppliers and not the execs and marketers selling us products. The best the latter can do is make a generalized statement like "On average custom guitars can take between 6 - 8 months to produce if you look at the entire market.
> 
> If the supplier can't provide the parts in their allotted estimate, then it's not the manufacturers fault. Aka a builder having a Guitar ready to go but waiting an extra month on bridge/tuners, vice versa the supplier can't be at fault when the manufacturer has all needed components and can't meet their own deadlines. I think people really need to understand who to blame when things go south in an attempt to bring a product to the market.





Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I can’t imagine that the issue here is that Frank agreed to an overly optimistic timeline. He’s been building long enough if he couldn’t do it, he’d just say, “I can’t build that fast.”





Jonathan20022 said:


> And to be fair too, if the folks coordinating production for a product present unrealistic lead times to the manufacturer and their response isn't to increase those lead times and instead accept it with the insurmountable amount of experience they have, then they are at fault as well (mostly I'd argue).
> 
> Both Grover and Falbo are longtime luthiers, I find it weird that they didn't just propose a shift in the lead time when that was even suggested. Tosin can gauge the market response based on his signature guitar sales and try to understand the workload of initial orders, and they both should have understood how many guitars they could churn out on a regular basis and adjust the amount and lead times accordingly. It's hard to believe no one thought of nor suggested this at any point.



I know narratives in these situations tend to be rather fluid, but let's step back for a second. 

*Falbo was not a contractor in this business, but an employee and stakeholder/part-owner. 
*
The distinction is important when assessing responsibility. 

Full disclosure, I've had more communication with Falbo and genuinely don't believe all the blame falls on him, not by a long shot. A fuck up this royal is a team effort.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

I may have missed it somewhere in the madness is there any official news about the Jackson ones?? Are they actually cancelled as well??


----------



## srrdude

Dineley said:


> I may have missed it somewhere in the madness is there any official news about the Jackson ones?? Are they actually cancelled as well??


The 6 stringers can be refunded, last time they updated. They wont take any new orders on any at all, and claim to be switching to an inventory based business model. Although, speculation is that Ibanez or someone else is suing him, so, I wouldn't count on that either.


----------



## MrWulf

I still dont understand how ppl can toss their money into such a stupid design. And the fact that the design somehow attract ppl to burn their money even more so. Now this is just a permanent stain on Abasi's career and dude exposed himself to be a terrible businessman. Just stick to Animals as Leaders.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

MrWulf said:


> I still dont understand how ppl can toss their money into such a stupid design. And the fact that the design somehow attract ppl to burn their money even more so. Now this is just a permanent stain on Abasi's career and dude exposed himself to be a terrible businessman. Just stick to Animals as Leaders.



Maybe AAL is not generating enough money these days, dunno. People are trying new things to see what happens and if they're profitable. Design is a matter of opinion and they may be comfortable to one person but won't be the same to another. But yeah, this whole drama is gonna leave a dirty scar unfortunately


----------



## Fred the Shred

AAL and Abasi Concepts are not the same thing, and they exist in totally indepedent forms as business entities. To assume the profitability of one endeavour, especially given the necessary ups and downs in between touring cycles, would jeopardize the funding of the other's most basic operation would be to assume the most supreme incompetence and ignorance regarding the sort of funding require to start a new business, especially when you need to keep stock of necessary parts and basic maintenance of production tools at the very least, not to mention ensuring a time span in between batches (which in this case would be from launch to order completion and delivery) is duly financed, operational margin included. In spite of all the grave mistakes here, I seriously doubt that would be the case. "Have no money, let's make a company based on the production of physical goods" is as suicidal from the onset as it gets.


----------



## MrWulf

It probably wasnt the case, but something is fucked up from the business side of things. Not like musicians are known to be deft money manager or anything _he said awkwardly, remembering all the guitars and gears he had brought/sold _


----------



## Fred the Shred

Exactly - there are glaring, critical flaws in this whole endeavour from the beginning, and they are obviously not sorted yet, assuming they'll ever be, but were we to find out (protip: we won't) the whole thing was set in motion without appropriate funding BECAUSE the people handling the financial aspect had basically planned to used non-guaranteed funding to withstand the earlier times where there's basically no guaranteed cashflow for a variable amount of time, this would be the usual cock-up we often find in fly-by-night luthiers, where it goes down in flames when the luthier discovers the pricing makes the business unsustainable, thus orders are completed with the money of the following ones' deposits at first and then ends with the grand finale: do I eat or finish these builds?

The operations in question aren't massive in the slightest, but we are talking about relatively small shops, and if things are to roll on a contractor basis, you'll have to fork out the moolah lest other batches that do pay the bills take precedence, since shockingly businesses require money to function. Slot management also has a number of variations to it, and you can have variable delays in production due to a number of factors that can stem from the company hiring you or be completely alien to them (parts being the a common culprit).


----------



## Tsathoggua

MrWulf said:


> I still dont understand how ppl can toss their money into such a stupid design. And the fact that the design somehow attract ppl to burn their money even more so. Now this is just a permanent stain on Abasi's career and dude exposed himself to be a terrible businessman. Just stick to Animals as Leaders.


Beauty is in the eyes of that one D&D monster etc., but I have to say, these instruments are probably my favourite design of any guitar I've yet seen. Ergonomic, fanfret, a singlecut shape and all that without a decapitation, nay even with a beautiful headstock? Sign me up! Except I could never afford one. I just hope these people somehow get their act together and maybe one day even produce a budget version.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Would be a dream if we went full circle and the design goes back to Ibanez or Ibanez make their own iteration to get a decent price and good quality


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Would be a dream if we went full circle and the design goes back to Ibanez or Ibanez make their own iteration to get a decent price and good quality


Owning a TAM100 and remembering the farce that came with their release back then, I'm not so fussed on Tosin going back to Ibanez with a more complicated design.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

StevenC said:


> Owning a TAM100 and remembering the farce that came with their release back then, I'm not so fussed on Tosin going back to Ibanez with a more complicated design.


What was the farce? I’m kinda thinking like a jem type idea, when superstrats were big, Ibanez got vain his super strat thing. Now we’ve got the rise of ERGs and ergonomic designs so you can see how Ibanez would want to capitalise off of that.


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> What was the farce? I’m kinda thinking like a jem type idea, when superstrats were big, Ibanez got vain his super strat thing. Now we’ve got the rise of ERGs and ergonomic designs so you can see how Ibanez would want to capitalise off of that.


That so many of them turned out to be complete crap. A few guys on this forum bought and returned several before giving up. They had terrible quality control on them, and the TAM is just a RG2228 with a wenge neck.


----------



## A-Branger

Ibanez is not going to release that shape. IF and IF they are the ones suing, is not because they want to release it, it would be more of a making a $ from the process.

Ibanez might have story of releasing weird shapes, but also has a story of failing with those shapes. Even the iconic Iceman, its not sold very well so now its down to a 1 model only in a few selected countries.

the RGs are what makes them $$$$, so they would keep pushing those (or the AZ series now). EVen with the revival of the X shape you have currently, they stll wont have any interest to re-release them

And the true is that IF Tosin come back to Ibanez (which wont happen at this point), or would have stayed there, we would be seeing ONE Prestige model in 8 string (either black, or the white prototype) which would be over 4k$, and maybe in two-four years time an Indo version of it, again in 8 string. Tosin is not known for playing 6 strings, so Ibanez wont release his in 6. Just like the TAMs you would have two options and be done. Thats the reason why TOsin left and decided to do this venture. Heck, jsut look at how long its been for Ibanez to release JakeB models (indo, new strings, new colors)


----------



## GuitarBizarre

A-Branger said:


> Ibanez is not going to release that shape. IF and IF they are the ones suing, is not because they want to release it, it would be more of a making a $ from the process.
> 
> Ibanez might have story of releasing weird shapes, but also has a story of failing with those shapes. Even the iconic Iceman, its not sold very well so now its down to a 1 model only in a few selected countries.
> 
> the RGs are what makes them $$$$, so they would keep pushing those (or the AZ series now). EVen with the revival of the X shape you have currently, they stll wont have any interest to re-release them
> 
> And the true is that IF Tosin come back to Ibanez (which wont happen at this point), or would have stayed there, we would be seeing ONE Prestige model in 8 string (either black, or the white prototype) which would be over 4k$, and maybe in two-four years time an Indo version of it, again in 8 string. Tosin is not known for playing 6 strings, so Ibanez wont release his in 6. Just like the TAMs you would have two options and be done. Thats the reason why TOsin left and decided to do this venture. Heck, jsut look at how long its been for Ibanez to release JakeB models (indo, new strings, new colors)


Also the Glaive, the Falchion, the Xiphos, the Halberd, the 540P, hell even the Talman failed on first release...


----------



## Fred the Shred

I seriously doubt Hoshino would ever bother going after Tosin unless some amazingly serious mischief was in place, and there is zero evidence even suggesting that was the case. There are far, far, FAR greater chances of a smaller corporation or individual doing so, and even in that case (assuming the existence of said suit at all) it can be tied to whatever matter, even though odds would point at the guitar manufacturing side of things given the way things have been going thus far, and that can be about... well, anything really.


----------



## jephjacques

StevenC said:


> That so many of them turned out to be complete crap. A few guys on this forum bought and returned several before giving up. They had terrible quality control on them, and the TAM is just a RG2228 with a wenge neck.



Yeah I bought no less than three and they all went back for being garbage, what a trashfire of a guitar line that was


----------



## Seabeast2000

I suppose they could have just done a white w/ maple version of the M8xm series and called it the Closin Enoughi.


----------



## Vyn

The906 said:


> I suppose they could have just done a white w/ maple version of the M8xm series and called it the Closin Enoughi.



Yeah, given how well the M80M and M8M turned out, no idea how the hell they fucked up the TAM. Especially as people mentioned, it was a tarted up 2228/RG8 (high-end/low end) really when the Meshuggah sigs were unlike anything they had released to the public before.


----------



## ThePIGI King

Vyn said:


> Yeah, given how well the M80M and M8M turned out, no idea how the hell they fucked up the TAM. Especially as people mentioned, it was a tarted up 2228/RG8 (high-end/low end) really when the Meshuggah sigs were unlike anything they had released to the public before.


I'd never heard any gripes on the TAM10? Are there any?

And as the TAM100, I was under the impression that only the first batch was bad, and that the flukes were worked out. Could be wrong. I do agree, especially since the JCRG13-8 is literally almost the same thing as well. Makes no sense that the TAM should be that bad. My wenge necked Ibby is pretty amaze-balls and I'd love an 8 with that same feeling neck.

Bring back Tosin Ibanez!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Ibasi.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ThePIGI King said:


> I'd never heard any gripes on the TAM10? Are there any?
> 
> And as the TAM100, I was under the impression that only the first batch was bad, and that the flukes were worked out. Could be wrong. I do agree, especially since the JCRG13-8 is literally almost the same thing as well. Makes no sense that the TAM should be that bad. My wenge necked Ibby is pretty amaze-balls and I'd love an 8 with that same feeling neck.
> 
> Bring back Tosin Ibanez!



From what I understand, the process of bringing the TAM100 to market was both difficult and rushed. Volume was low enough that issues typically resolved through production maturity just didn't take place. 

Also, the wenge Hoshino or Fujigen sourced was definitely not properly prepared or stored. Shrunk like crazy which lead to the infamous neck pocket and fretwork issues. 

Really just a shit show. 

The good ones are really great though.


----------



## jmeezle

ThePIGI King said:


> I'd never heard any gripes on the TAM10? Are there any?
> 
> And as the TAM100, I was under the impression that only the first batch was bad, and that the flukes were worked out. Could be wrong. I do agree, especially since the JCRG13-8 is literally almost the same thing as well. Makes no sense that the TAM should be that bad. My wenge necked Ibby is pretty amaze-balls and I'd love an 8 with that same feeling neck.
> 
> Bring back Tosin Ibanez!



My TAM10 has been a god damned workhorse for almost 5 years. I'm guessing I got a good one?


----------



## Matt08642

I just wanted a space tele


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Matt08642 said:


> I just wanted a space tele


I relate to this message so hard, I was gonna shred ted greene on one (still hope to?)


----------



## Albake21

Matt08642 said:


> I just wanted a space tele


Pretty much the only tele I'd ever want


----------



## jarledge

the tam 10 felt like an rg8 with a pickguard. The quality, fit and finish were very lacking for the price. 1074 would get you a much better quality used 2228 and still have enough left over to cover the cost of throwing new pickups in it. I played one and literally LOLed when i looked at the price. 




ThePIGI King said:


> I'd never heard any gripes on the TAM10? Are there any?
> 
> And as the TAM100, I was under the impression that only the first batch was bad, and that the flukes were worked out. Could be wrong. I do agree, especially since the JCRG13-8 is literally almost the same thing as well. Makes no sense that the TAM should be that bad. My wenge necked Ibby is pretty amaze-balls and I'd love an 8 with that same feeling neck.
> 
> Bring back Tosin Ibanez!


----------



## Veldar

Holy shit what a thread, remember when they said there would be basses made as well...

Good times... good times...


----------



## ChugThisBoy

I'm thankfull that this isn't closed and we can enjoy these little stories with a morning coffee when somebody posts some news sometimes.

Good times, indeed


----------



## jmeezle

jarledge said:


> the tam 10 felt like an rg8 with a pickguard. The quality, fit and finish were very lacking for the price. 1074 would get you a much better quality used 2228 and still have enough left over to cover the cost of throwing new pickups in it. I played one and literally LOLed when i looked at the price.



Yes and no, in my experience. Obviously you'll get better fretwork on a Prestige but to say it feels like an RG8 isn't very accurate, IMO. My 852 plays better than my TAM10 but the TAM10 blows it away sound wise. I agree that the price point was way too high for a new one though.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

This thread is like a movie series that that won'r stop. 10 bucks says this becomes a documentry on netflix


----------



## LeviathanKiller

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> This thread is like a movie series that that won'r stop. 10 bucks says this becomes a documentry on netflix



Wouldn't that be great? A production about the lack of production of a guitar series.


----------



## kisielk

... which then itself is delayed / cancelled for a variety of questionable but unspecified reasons.


----------



## Seabeast2000

kisielk said:


> ... which then itself is delayed / cancelled for a variety of questionable but unspecified reasons.



"development hell"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_hell


----------



## narad

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> This thread is like a movie series that that won'r stop. 10 bucks says this becomes a documentry on netflix



I'd like to see it done with the Dark Crystal puppets.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

narad said:


> I'd like to see it done with the Dark Crystal puppets.



Omg it would be so cool


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Veldar said:


> Holy shit what a thread, remember when they said there would be guitars made



Fixed that for ya


----------



## spudmunkey

kisielk said:


> ... which then itself is delayed / cancelled for a variety of questionable but unspecified reasons.



It's because it would be directed by Terry Gilliam.


----------



## DeathbyDesign

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> This thread is like a movie series that that won'r stop. 10 bucks says this becomes a documentry on netflix


Could Morgan Freeman narrate it?


----------



## kisielk

spudmunkey said:


> It's because it would be directed by Terry Gilliam.


I was thinking Alejandro Jodorowsky. “Jodorowsky’s Guitar” : it was supposed to be epic, but never saw the light of day.


----------



## Randy




----------



## LordCashew

narad said:


> I'd like to see it done with the Dark Crystal puppets.



I vote Team America puppets.


----------



## Hollowway

Maybe there IS no actual guitar. The entire thing is made up and THIS is the art that Tosin is working on. It's like the luthierie and internet equivalent of Cage's 4'33".


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> Maybe there IS no actual guitar. The entire thing is made up and THIS is the art that Tosin is working on. It's like the luthierie and internet equivalent of Cage's 4'33".



It turns out this whole thing has been a Nathan For You prank, like the Dumb Starbucks and Donald Trump's presidential campaign.


----------



## axxessdenied

Will there be an Abasi Concepts booth at Winter Namm 2020?


----------



## ChugThisBoy

axxessdenied said:


> Will there be an Abasi Concepts booth at Winter Namm 2020?



We could send our representative to discuss the plot of scenario for the Netflix series


----------



## lurè

Abasi concept Is probably focusing more on Half Life 3 than guitars.


----------



## spudmunkey

ChugThisBoy said:


> We could send our representative to discuss the plot of scenario for the Netflix series


but...the plot is still developing? Or will we be like game of Thrones where we pass the source material, and then the real people involved purposefully change direction?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

axxessdenied said:


> Will there be an Abasi Concepts booth at Winter Namm 2020?


I want to make some sort of joke about this but honestly I think them being there is the actual joke itself. Year two of promoting guitars that don't yet exist? How many times can you bring the same product to market?


----------



## axxessdenied

LeviathanKiller said:


> I want to make some sort of joke about this but honestly I think them being there is the actual joke itself. Year two of promoting guitars that don't yet exist? How many times can you bring the same product to market?


Oh... my post WAS the joke HAHAHAHA xD


----------



## axxessdenied

lurè said:


> Abasi concept Is probably focusing more on Half Life 3 than guitars.


this is why I love this thread. Comedy gold!!!


----------



## Vyn

Memes aside, has anyone who's actually ordered one received an update? It's been extremely quiet.


----------



## arhg

Vyn said:


> Memes aside, has anyone who's actually ordered one received an update? It's been extremely quiet.



Actually ordered. Dead silence.


----------



## kisielk

If you search here: https://www.namm.org/thenammshow/2020/directory

you will see Abasi Concepts come up in the listings. So it does seem they are planning on attending NAMM.


----------



## Zalbu

How many times does this have to happen until people learn to wait until the companies show that they can actually put out models on the market? Is the need for the Low Serial Number™ really that strong?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Zalbu said:


> How many times does this have to happen until people learn to wait until the companies show that they can actually put out models on the market? Is the need for the Low Serial Number™ really that strong?



This will never stop happening.
We're metal guitarists not accountants.


----------



## Avedas

Zalbu said:


> How many times does this have to happen until people learn to wait until the companies show that they can actually put out models on the market? Is the need for the Low Serial Number™ really that strong?


Someone's gotta jump on the grenade. It won't be me though, so I appreciate these people.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Question because I’m curious, is everyone here a djenty metal boi or are their other genres that want them?


----------



## ChugThisBoy

They have several 6's so I guess not everyone here a is djent boi. Some people are propably just lurking here for the drama as well


----------



## Seabeast2000

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Question because I’m curious, is everyone here a djenty metal boi or are their other genres that want them?


I was trying to figure out if I qualify but some memes confuse me. Might have to go to the Aunt/Uncle Meming to cope.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

The piramids got me


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Question because I’m curious, is everyone here a djenty metal boi or are their other genres that want them?







From the looks of it being a djenty metal boi is not prerequisite for being an endorser.


----------



## cwhitey2

Lorcan Ward said:


> From the looks of it being a djenty metal boi is not prerequisite for being an endorser.



I realllly cannot stand those videos.

Cringe for days.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Aye what happened to Isaiah he never plays his and he’s with Hybrid guitar co now?


----------



## Vyn

The906 said:


> I was trying to figure out if I qualify but some memes confuse me. Might have to go to the Aunt/Uncle Meming to cope.



I hate that meme, mainly because yes I'm into Egyptian mythology however I prefer Nile's way of handling the subject matter haha.


----------



## Avedas

Isaiah is really damn good. Maybe that's why he has other endorsements that actually put out instruments.


----------



## noise in my mind

Vyn said:


> I hate that meme, mainly because yes I'm into Egyptian mythology however I prefer Nile's way of handling the subject matter haha.



Yeah, I don't get the pyramid and djent connection (probably because of summerian). it Should be space or a skyline instead. Hasn't the whole Egyptian thing been around since Iron Maiden? Earth wind and fire?


----------



## iamaom

noise in my mind said:


> Hasn't the whole Egyptian thing been around since Iron Maiden?


No, some tryhards in 2000BC started the trend by _actually_ building pyramids.


----------



## cardinal

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Question because I’m curious, is everyone here a djenty metal boi or are their other genres that want them?



I really want one, and I'd just use it to play the same Alice In Chains and Dokken riffs that I play on anything else.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

300 Delaware Ave., Ste. 210A
Wilmington, DE 19801 USA

What address is this because it’s not LA?


----------



## noise in my mind

iamaom said:


> No, some tryhards in 2000BC started the trend by _actually_ building pyramids.


What a buncha showoffs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jack McGoldrick said:


> 300 Delaware Ave., Ste. 210A
> Wilmington, DE 19801 USA
> 
> What address is this because it’s not LA?



Probably the address where the company (assuming something to do with Abasi Gui...Concepts) is incorporated.

Delaware has civil conflict and tax laws that favor businesses so oftentimes they're incorporated there even though they operate elsewhere.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

It's the address where Frank's "business license" was kept when he was part owner of Abasi Concepts.


----------



## Seabeast2000

cwhitey2 said:


> I realllly cannot stand those videos.
> 
> Cringe for days.


..ah ,cringe for days, ah, cringe for days, ah


----------



## cip 123

While it may be public info (If you actively seek it out), probably not best to be posting business addresses here, just my opinion.


----------



## skmanga

cip 123 said:


> While it may be public info (If you actively seek it out), probably not best to be posting business addresses here, just my opinion.



"We're metal guitarists not accountants."


----------



## BlackMastodon

The906 said:


> ..ah ,cringe for days, ah, cringe for days, ah


Took me a good minute.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

BlackMastodon said:


> Took me a good minute.



Wow I just get it now lol


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

HeLp...


----------



## BlackMastodon

Sing it like Static-X.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Bled for Days, uh


----------



## arhg

I see some of you questioning how dumb i was that ordered one.
Well...... I really dig the design, and admittedly it was a bit of an impulse. My main issue is not that I haven't received it yet, I can totally understand delays and expected it.

But the total and utter lack of communication about the state of my order, that is whats pissing me off.

I mean all I know is stuff I've randomly picked up in this holy kraken of a forum thread.

*My main source of information about a guitar I bought in april is this fucking forum.*

Hindsight is always 20/20 - so no need to rub it in


----------



## narad

Sounds like an appropriate username.


----------



## prlgmnr

arhg said:


> I see some of you questioning how dumb i was that ordered one.



If it's any consolation, you're far from the first person to make, and then document in detail, that kind of mistake on this very forum.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I wanted one but this kinda scared me off so I literally just bought a fender tele


----------



## Albake21

I was extremely close to buying one when preorders started, really glad I didn't. I can't blame anyone for ordering one though. This whole thing was pretty unexpected, especially when someone has such a big reputation.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Well, we still didn't hear the last word from them so there's always a glimpse of hope I guess.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

narad said:


> Sounds like an appropriate username.



This is an incredibly high quality post.


----------



## Opion

A friend of mine went to their clinic at Axe Palace and got to play the yellow/gold looking Abasi guitar. He said there were some weird finish flaws on the guitar and the nut was kind of jank, along with a decent gap in the neck joint...so even Tosin is playing his own signature guitar with finish issues?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Opion said:


> A friend of mine went to their clinic at Axe Palace and got to play the yellow/gold looking Abasi guitar. He said there were some weird finish flaws on the guitar and the nut was kind of jank, along with a decent gap in the neck joint...so even Tosin is playing his own signature guitar with finish issues?


Yeah there’s pictures deep in this forum of the issues with it


----------



## A-Branger

prob one of those rushed up jobs guitars for NAMM. I remember seeing them there all with different tunners and different backplates routings

just beacue its not 100% purrrrrfect, doesnt mean it cant be played "but but but I has THIS little thing HEEEERREEEEEE!!!! AAAHHGG..." some people are far too picky.

and yes, I know this is NOT the guitar he should be showing off around, but, maybe its the only guitar he has to show around


----------



## cip 123

Opion said:


> ..so even Tosin is playing his own signature guitar with finish issues?


I mean he can't exactly go back and play his Ibanez'

Or...


----------



## ChugThisBoy

cip 123 said:


> I mean he can't exactly go back and play his Ibanez'
> 
> Or...



He's playing it secretly in his apartment, I'm telling ya


----------



## jarledge

Albake21 said:


> I was extremely close to buying one when preorders started, really glad I didn't. I can't blame anyone for ordering one though. This whole thing was pretty unexpected, especially when someone has such a big reputation.



I was in the same boat. I wanted to pre-order one when they opened it up but I wasn't sure. It was down to the Abasi or a Kiesel and I went Kiesel . So glad I did too.


----------



## jbaxter

jarledge said:


> I was in the same boat. I wanted to pre-order one when they opened it up but I wasn't sure. It was down to the Abasi or a Kiesel and I went Kiesel . So glad I did too.
> View attachment 73180



Thats fucking sick. What are the specs on it?


----------



## Hollowway

jarledge said:


> I was in the same boat. I wanted to pre-order one when they opened it up but I wasn't sure. It was down to the Abasi or a Kiesel and I went Kiesel . So glad I did too.
> View attachment 73180


Wow, yeah dude, give us an NGD thread on that bad boy!


----------



## jarledge

jbaxter said:


> Thats fucking sick. What are the specs on it?



Special wood top: Resin stabilized - customer provided
(I bought the top from California Woods. It is a master grade resin stabilized buckeye burl top)

white limba body

Custom shop finish: trans Aqua on back/bevel

Chambered body

5 piece walnut/purpleheart neck

Thinner Neck profile

Tung oil back of the neck

Match headstock from billet

Zebrawood fretboard

No top inlays

Stainless steel jumbo frets

Black hardware

Black logo



Hollowway said:


> Wow, yeah dude, give us an NGD thread on that bad boy!



Once I actually get it, I'll do a NGD post. I ordered the guitar, then moved. It was of course finished when I was in transition so I had to have it re-directed until I got settled. I should have it in my hands in around a week.


----------



## Minute Man

Just got an email: Your Larada is complete!
YEAAAAAAAAAH
Some studio photos of my build is attached.
I guess she's really ready for shipping.
Finally!


----------



## jbaxter

Minute Man said:


> Just got an email: Your Larada is complete!
> YEAAAAAAAAAH
> Some studio photos of my build is attached.
> I guess she's really ready for shipping.
> Finally!


Post the photos!


----------



## Minute Man

jbaxter said:


> Post the photos!


OK...just some of them...


----------



## Randy

I'm not impressed by this development until I see the size and thickness of your glasses.


----------



## Avedas

mmmkay that looks mighty good


----------



## 7ibby001

Minute Man said:


> OK...just some of them...
> View attachment 73243
> View attachment 73244



Oh baby! Please let us know how it plays when you've received it!


----------



## skmanga

Congrats you must be super excited


----------



## Hollowway

Well I’ll be.... 

I’m hoping this is a good sign, and not just an anomaly. I’d love to get one myself, one day!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Hollowway said:


> Well I’ll be....
> 
> I’m hoping this is a good sign, and not just an anomaly. I’d love to get one myself, one day!



you me and a whole lot of people


----------



## cip 123

Not to immediately split hairs, but aren't those tuners crooked?


----------



## Randy

My impression was that they follow the shape of the headstock.


----------



## cardinal

That looks awesome. 

Might just be camera angles, but the fretboard looks wider on that one than on the earlier ones? If so, that's a welcome change. Some of those earlier ones looked like the strings were practically on top of the fret-end bevels.


----------



## Bforber

cardinal said:


> That looks awesome.
> 
> Might just be camera angles, but the fretboard looks wider on that one than on the earlier ones? If so, that's a welcome change. Some of those earlier ones looked like the strings were practically on top of the fret-end bevels.



If I'm not mistaken I think Tosin wanted really tight string spacing. I would assume that would've influenced that decision. 

Either way, I've seen this guitar and one second chance model pop up, so that's a good sign. Hopefully they're not DOA when they arrive on people's doorsteps.


----------



## Randy

According to video he did with Henning, he said the neck width on the 8 is closer to a 7-string.


----------



## cip 123

Randy said:


> My impression was that they follow the shape of the headstock.


It looks like that but that A string tuner just looks crooked to me.


----------



## Albake21

Randy said:


> According to video he did with Henning, he said the neck width on the 8 is closer to a 7-string.


The one posted on the last page looks to have normal spacing though where as all of the other ones seemed to have that super close spacing that Tosin was talking about.


----------



## Randy

cip 123 said:


> It looks like that but that A string tuner just looks crooked to me.



It's definitely the most distracting of the set, but it looked to me like it's aligned with the 'dip'. If it leaned at the same angle as the others on the base side, I'd worry about the tip of the headstock interfering with turning it.


----------



## Randy

Albake21 said:


> The one posted on the last page looks to have normal spacing though where as all of the other ones seemed to have that super close spacing that Tosin was talking about.



Speculation on my part, but the string spacing itself looks to still be 'narrowish' but the neck width itself looks wider. Space from string to fretboard edge look notably large to my eye.


----------



## jephjacques

Well I'll be damned, they DO exist!


----------



## spudmunkey

cip 123 said:


> It looks like that but that A string tuner just looks crooked to me.


It could be, buy my mind's eye thinks that if we looked at it as a less "extreme" angle, it might look more "right" than if it were 'straight'.


----------



## prlgmnr

jephjacques said:


> Well I'll be damned, they DO exist!


ONE of them exists, at least.


----------



## cardinal

Randy said:


> Speculation on my part, but the string spacing itself looks to still be 'narrowish' but the neck width itself looks wider. Space from string to fretboard edge look notably large to my eye.



Are those ABM saddles? Those are 10mm wide, so if packed tightly can give a super narrow spacing. Maybe that's what's happening here.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Someone needs better aim with the logo sticker, judging from the headstock iShot with iLighting. We'll see how these fare.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

The narrow string spacing makes getting an 8-string enticing. Anyone know a reputable place to get a tight-spaced 8-string other than Abasi Concepts? What I have now is an Agile Intrepid Pro 828 and the spacing is rather wide. I actually had to use the stock baseplates because of the difference.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Hope it plays well and meets your expectations! Not holding my breath but I do hope that all the orders get fulfilled and people don't get screwed for putting down deposits.


----------



## Albake21

Honestly a tight spaced 8 string is pretty much the only way I'd give an 8 string another shot. If I could get an 8 string with the neck width close to an 8 string, I'd consider it.


----------



## srrdude

I've never seen white 8-string fluence pickups before, have any of you?


----------



## cardinal

The thing they really need to watch for is if they still intend to offer straight-scale 8s with the Floyd. The Floyd 8 has a 10.8mm string-to-string spacing, so they need to plan for the neck width accordingly. Some of the earlier guitars looked like they did not and the outer strings looked like they were practically off the fretboard.

FWIW, I've been playing 8s with the 10.8mm spacing for a while and never noticed any issues. In fact I go back and forth between some Floyd 8s and the Hipshot 8 (with a 10.5mm spacing) and never notice the difference. I suppose maybe I would notice the jump down to 10mm, but I assume it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to adjust.


----------



## StevenC

srrdude said:


> I've never seen white 8-string fluence pickups before, have any of you?


Tosin has had some for a while, but they finally made them available to the rest of us just recently.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

srrdude said:


> I've never seen white 8-string fluence pickups before, have any of you?


Yeah Tosin has them on some of his, also on fishmans insta you’ll see them


----------



## Hollowway

cardinal said:


> The thing they really need to watch for is if they still intend to offer straight-scale 8s with the Floyd. The Floyd 8 has a 10.8mm string-to-string spacing, so they need to plan for the neck width accordingly. Some of the earlier guitars looked like they did not and the outer strings looked like they were practically off the fretboard.
> 
> FWIW, I've been playing 8s with the 10.8mm spacing for a while and never noticed any issues. In fact I go back and forth between some Floyd 8s and the Hipshot 8 (with a 10.5mm spacing) and never notice the difference. I suppose maybe I would notice the jump down to 10mm, but I assume it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to adjust.



Hmm Abasi Concepts seems cursed, and they’re trying to release a Floyd 8 guitar. The BC Rich reboot seems cursed, and they’re also trying to release a Floyd 8 guitar. Coincidence? I think not. Trying to make a 8 string guitar with a Floyd is the luthierie equivalent of looking in the mirror and saying Candyman. 




* _Editor’s note: Hollowway is aware that, in the actual movie, a character must say “Candyman” five times, in succession, for Candyman to appear. Hollowway is also very well aware that Schecter and Agile have, in the past, released an 8 string Floyd. He doesn’t care. He wants another one.)_


----------



## Avedas

Hollowway said:


> Hmm Abasi Concepts seems cursed, and they’re trying to release a Floyd 8 guitar. The BC Rich reboot seems cursed, and they’re also trying to release a Floyd 8 guitar. Coincidence? I think not. Trying to make a 8 string guitar with a Floyd is the luthierie equivalent of looking in the mirror and saying Candyman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * _Editor’s note: Hollowway is aware that, in the actual movie, a character must say “Candyman” five times, in succession, for Candyman to appear. Hollowway is also very well aware that Schecter and Agile have, in the past, released an 8 string Floyd. He doesn’t care. He wants another one.)_


Didn't someone on here get a custom 8 string Floyd fabricated last year? That's gotta be the real way around the curse.


----------



## kisielk

Caparison has an 8 string with a Floyd, they seem to be doing ok!


----------



## kisielk

srrdude said:


> I've never seen white 8-string fluence pickups before, have any of you?


They're mentioned at around 9:30 in this new video from the Fishman channel:


----------



## StevenC

Avedas said:


> Didn't someone on here get a custom 8 string Floyd fabricated last year? That's gotta be the real way around the curse.


No, they got a titanium Edge 8 made and it's spectacular.


----------



## Velokki

Am I just not enlightened enough to know or appreciate the benefits... or is it just stupid to have now lower register access with one's thumb? Why would one willingly design the body to go over the top of the fretboard?

Are there any actual benefits, or is it just "unique design for the sake of unique design"?


----------



## Vyn

StevenC said:


> No, they got a titanium Edge 8 made and it's spectacular.



It's quite possibly the best piece of custom kit I've seen on this entire forum.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Velokki said:


> Am I just not enlightened enough to know or appreciate the benefits... or is it just stupid to have now lower register access with one's thumb? Why would one willingly design the body to go over the top of the fretboard?
> 
> Are there any actual benefits, or is it just "unique design for the sake of unique design"?



Back in the 80's and 90's a lot of boutique bass builders did this to better support the neck and allow for thinner necks and smaller neck joints higher up the neck. 

Whether that applies to these is anyone's guess as you could probably count on one hand the number of people who have played these thus far.


----------



## mnemonic

cardinal said:


> The thing they really need to watch for is if they still intend to offer straight-scale 8s with the Floyd. The Floyd 8 has a 10.8mm string-to-string spacing, so they need to plan for the neck width accordingly. Some of the earlier guitars looked like they did not and the outer strings looked like they were practically off the fretboard.
> 
> FWIW, I've been playing 8s with the 10.8mm spacing for a while and never noticed any issues. In fact I go back and forth between some Floyd 8s and the Hipshot 8 (with a 10.5mm spacing) and never notice the difference. I suppose maybe I would notice the jump down to 10mm, but I assume it wouldn't take more than a few minutes to adjust.



Maybe they’ll try using Kahlers, as you can adjust string spacing with them. Though you would be stuck with a Kahler and it seems most people don’t like them.


----------



## cardinal

Avedas said:


> Didn't someone on here get a custom 8 string Floyd fabricated last year? That's gotta be the real way around the curse.



I had two guitars built with Floyd 8s this year. In both cases, I had to plead and beg to get the neck built wide enough. I asked to the same width as the Ibanez 8 string necks (oddly their fixed bridge uses the same spacing as the Floyd 8). Apparently there was something about that neck width presents issues for common neck blanks and jigs, so the builders eventually agreed to made the necks wider but it was a lot of effort for them.



Velokki said:


> Am I just not enlightened enough to know or appreciate the benefits... or is it just stupid to have now lower register access with one's thumb? Why would one willingly design the body to go over the top of the fretboard?
> 
> Are there any actual benefits, or is it just "unique design for the sake of unique design"?



Like Max said, it's been a thing in the bass world. Basses have super long necks and can suffer from terrible wolf tones or dead spots cause by the neck resonating with certain notes. But if you build it like this, you effectively shorten the neck and make it stiffer/less resonant in the hopes that it sustains more evenly.

It also makes for a nice place to rest your right hand for some tapping.

A lot of folks play with their left hand in a classical position with the thumb behind the neck and do vibrato more side-to-side like Lynch rather than up-and-down. Bass players rarely bend up high, so it's not really an issue. For guitar, it might be annoying though if you do a lot of rapid big bends up high. At least I tend to need my thumb over the neck for leverage.


----------



## Andromalia

> do vibrato more side-to-side like Lynch rather than up-and-down


Up and down vibrato on a fretted instrument always felt weird to me.


----------



## cardinal

Andromalia said:


> Up and down vibrato on a fretted instrument always felt weird to me.



When I was first learning to play, I got a bad habit of always looping my thumb over the top of the neck and would default to what my teacher called "rock vibrato" where I just moved up and down with my thumb as the hinge or pivot point. It has its place, but it has its limitations (only raises the pitch, maybe not as smooth and emotive as moving side to side like a violin), so it took a lot of effort for me to relearn with a more classical technique.

I'm always telling my kids it's so much easier in the long run to just learn the right way the first time...


----------



## Vyn

cardinal said:


> When I was first learning to play, I got a bad habit of always looping my thumb over the top of the neck and would default to what my teacher called "rock vibrato" where I just moved up and down with my thumb as the hinge or pivot point. It has its place, but it has its limitations (only raises the pitch, maybe not as smooth and emotive as moving side to side like a violin), so it took a lot of effort for me to relearn with a more classical technique.
> 
> I'm always telling my kids it's so much easier in the long run to just learn the right way the first time...



I had a strict teacher who would bark/yell at me for putting my thumb over the board. Also would yell at me for curling my pinky finger. As a frightened 10 year old, I listened haha. I've tried playing/learning how to do thumb over the board and it just feels wrong.


----------



## xzacx

What the hell is "up and down vibrato?" Not sure if this is just semantics or a technique I've never heard of.


----------



## StevenC

xzacx said:


> What the hell is "up and down vibrato?" Not sure if this is just semantics or a technique I've never heard of.


Vibrato achieved by bending the string up and down parallel to the fret. As opposed to vibrato achieved by rolling or sliding your finger along the string within the fret.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

I'm curious how classical vibrato does anything. Like... it works on a violin because there's no frets, but on a guitar, wouldn't moving your finger around between frets do nothing? Or it the equivalent of pushing too hard on a large fretted guitar?

Just curious. Never really understood the physics of it.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Horizontal vibrato on the electric guitar (and any other) is a bit of a subtle thing in terms of pitch variation compared to its vertical counterpart - players who opt to use it are often prone to also exert pressure towards the board more deliberately (and release it, of course) to increase the pitch variation. There is nothing particulary problematic when using vertical vibrato using classical position and it's widely used by many players, anyway. I prefer to have my thumb further up the back of the neck for such antics, though, but this is a typical case of personal preference.


----------



## frank falbo

Basically when you’re pushing toward the bridge you’re stretching the string area toward the nut, pushing “extra” string slack toward the bridge, making the note flat. Then when you pull toward the nut, you make the note sharp. It’s because of the drag between your skin and the string. 

Nylon strings are thicker and have a lot of drag, and if you try to vibrato vertically on a nylon the string tends to “roll” and it’s not ideal. But you can do it on steel strings just the same. 

Incidentally I talk about this string drag when adjusting intonation all the time, and what “perfect” intonation is. It’s dependent on the player. I can show someone how if you slide up to a note, it will be flat, if you slide down to that same note it will be sharp.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

I've experienced this rolling of the nylon strings. Nylon strings also make a little more sense as they're softer than steel strings, so it would stand to reason that it'd stretch/compress easier when you pull on it. 

Going a little off topic, but I really do want a nylon string guitar, and I want to practice the horizontal vibrato. I tried learning violin years ago, and every time I tried giving vibrato, it just looked like I was giving an awkward never-done-this-before handy with no change in pitch.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Hollowway said:


> Hmm Abasi Concepts seems cursed, and they’re trying to release a Floyd 8 guitar. The BC Rich reboot seems cursed, and they’re also trying to release a Floyd 8 guitar. Coincidence? I think not. Trying to make a 8 string guitar with a Floyd is the luthierie equivalent of looking in the mirror and saying Candyman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * _Editor’s note: Hollowway is aware that, in the actual movie, a character must say “Candyman” five times, in succession, for Candyman to appear. Hollowway is also very well aware that Schecter and Agile have, in the past, released an 8 string Floyd. He doesn’t care. He wants another one.)_


On a mildly related note, Tony Todd is going to be reprising his role as Candyman in the reboot.


----------



## asopala

Hollowway said:


> "Trying to make a 8 string guitar with a Floyd is the luthierie equivalent of looking in the mirror and saying Candyman."



Didn't Schecter pull this off with a Hellraiser 8 a few years ago, where it had a Floyd? I don't remember there being any issues when I tried one. Curious about that one.


----------



## Vyn

asopala said:


> Didn't Schecter pull this off with a Hellraiser 8 a few years ago, where it had a Floyd? I don't remember there being any issues when I tried one. Curious about that one.



The only issue with the Schecter was obtaining one. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if @Hollowway bought them all.


----------



## Seabeast2000

https://www.schecterguitars.com/vault/hellraiser-c-8-fr-2013-11-21-detail


----------



## Randy

I'm not into wonky bridge setups but I'd be all over an 8 string where just the top 6 strings dive. Floating tremolo stability is bad enough as is, two extra strings with weird tension variations that you'll never actually use to bomb/vibrato seems unnecessary.


----------



## Vyn

Randy said:


> I'm not into wonky bridge setups but I'd be all over an 8 string where just the top 6 strings dive. Floating tremolo stability is bad enough as is, two extra strings with weird tension variations that you'll never actually use to bomb/vibrato seems unnecessary.



They (6 & 7 string trems at least) are actually incredibly stable. Rich has a good guide on his website that I've been using for years. Making sure the strings are well stretched and keeping an eye on the knife edge make all the difference.


----------



## ThePIGI King

Randy said:


> I'm not into wonky bridge setups but I'd be all over an 8 string where just the top 6 strings dive. Floating tremolo stability is bad enough as is, two extra strings with weird tension variations that you'll never actually use to bomb/vibrato seems unnecessary.


I like the idea simply because:
-Trems feel best for me
-Vibrato on a chord is always good, even on the 8th string
-doesnt have to be a dive, can always increase pitch
-trems look the coolest

8 string trems need to be mainstream, I'd like one without custom or modding.


----------



## Hollowway

Randy said:


> I'm not into wonky bridge setups but I'd be all over an 8 string where just the top 6 strings dive. Floating tremolo stability is bad enough as is, two extra strings with weird tension variations that you'll never actually use to bomb/vibrato seems unnecessary.



I can’t remember who, but someone on here back in like 2010 modified a Rhoads V by adding two extra strings and only did the Floyd for the top 6 strings. Or something like that. I remember he edited the “8 string guitar” Wikipedia page to put a photo of his guitar on there.  It was kind of a rough proof of concept, but I also thought it was a cool idea.


----------



## Harry

Hollowway said:


> I can’t remember who, but someone on here back in like 2010 modified a Rhoads V by adding two extra strings and only did the Floyd for the top 6 strings. Or something like that. I remember he edited the “8 string guitar” Wikipedia page to put a photo of his guitar on there.  It was kind of a rough proof of concept, but I also thought it was a cool idea.



Shit, I remember that.
I knew his username started with T. I was thinking Tom something, but after some digging figured out it was troyguitar! I clicked on his profile and he hasn't logged in since 2017 it seems.



In retrospect, pretty silly and kinda hilarious, but as you said also cool in a way.


----------



## Hollowway

Harry said:


> Shit, I remember that.
> I knew his username started with T. I was thinking Tom something, but after some digging figured out it was troyguitar! I clicked on his profile and he hasn't logged in since 2017 it seems.
> 
> 
> 
> In retrospect, pretty silly and kinda hilarious, but as you said also cool in a way.



Yes! That’s it. Nice sleuthing work! But yeah, definitely a crazy rough build, but a neat concept that’s surprisingly not been adopted by anyone. 

I would love to see more: 
1) Floyd 8s
2) Multiscale instruments with the parallel fret at the bridge so they could do a trem.
3) multiscale Trems 
4) partial trems (like troyguitar’s)


----------



## A-Branger

Fred the Shred said:


> Horizontal vibrato on the electric guitar (and any other) is a bit of a subtle thing in terms of pitch variation compared to its vertical counterpart - players who opt to use it are often prone to also exert pressure towards the board more deliberately (and release it, of course) to increase the pitch variation.



I think also its a "happy accident", as when you try to move your finger back n forth, you are accidentally moving the string up/down ina veeery small amount, small enough to help with the pitch change, because yeah, frets


----------



## cardinal

Yeah, I think a lot of folks doing that type of vibrato move their finger in a circle (at least that's how I was taught) rather than just straight back and forth. 

I think Conklin has done some 8-strings with a non-locking 6-string tremolo on the top strings and fixed saddles for the bottom two. I considered trying for that but just went with the Floyd 8 as I like them better than non-locking trems anyway.


----------



## remco mayer

we have made a 8 string tremolo for multi scale and headless made out of Brass and a special harden steel for the plate and knife edge http://www.apollomusicparts.com/tremolo/


----------



## cardinal

remco mayer said:


> we have made a 8 string tremolo for multi scale and headless made out of Brass and a special harden steel for the plate and knife edge http://www.apollomusicparts.com/tremolo/



Very nice. Is the stud spacing the same as the 8-string Floyd Rose?


----------



## Hollowway

Machinists and engineers: we’ve made another floating 8 string tremolo!

Luthiers: under no circumstances will we ever build a guitar with a floating 8 string tremolo.


----------



## Vyn

Hollowway said:


> Machinists and engineers: we’ve made another floating 8 string tremolo!
> 
> Luthiers: under no circumstances will we ever build a guitar with a floating 8 string tremolo.



Just had a random thought - buy a 2228 (because it's already got a neck suited to a locking nut), rip the Edge III out of it, plug it up, re-route for one of those lovely titanium edges, install, done.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Hollowway said:


> Machinists and engineers: we’ve made another floating 8 string tremolo!
> 
> Luthiers: under no circumstances will we ever build a guitar with a floating 8 string tremolo.


waghorn will do it


----------



## Hollowway

Vyn said:


> Just had a random thought - buy a 2228 (because it's already got a neck suited to a locking nut), rip the Edge III out of it, plug it up, re-route for one of those lovely titanium edges, install, done.


I would, but I ain’t no luthier.


----------



## Hollowway

KnightBrolaire said:


> waghorn will do it



Hmmm.... (strokes chin) I’ll have to check this out....


----------



## spudmunkey

Please tell me that the fret board inlays on the guitar on the right are a combination of a dna helix and barbed wire...


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Caparison made an 8 with Floyd for Mattias Ekhlund if I'm not mistaken


----------



## frank falbo

cardinal said:


> Very nice. Is the stud spacing the same as the 8-string Floyd Rose?


Yes stud spacing matches the Floyd 6/7/8 and the baseplate will fit inside an existing Floyd route, but if it’s a multiscale with the bridge slanted then the saddles would hang further out the back, but....then you wouldn’t be replacing a Floyd so that’s irrelevant.

As for the string spacing FYI, both the Ibanez and the Falbo versions had Floyd Rose/Ibanez Edge string spacing at the bridge. They were only narrower at the nut. The string gap between the edge of the fingerboard on mine matched the gap of a 6-string RG at the widest point, plenty of room. The 8 string Floyd versions I made for Japan were great. I have an 8 string trem here I’ll be using on a headless build soon. I think 8’s with trems are cool.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

spudmunkey said:


> Please tell me that the fret board inlays on the guitar on the right are a combination of a dna helix and barbed wire...


nah, just a double helix


----------



## cardinal

Schecter and Brian Howard also will build an 8 with a Floyd. 
https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-schecter-pt8-fr-masterwork.335461/
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/brian-howard-san-dimas-style-8-string.2042560/


----------



## jephjacques

ChugThisBoy said:


> Caparison made an 8 with Floyd for Mattias Ekhlund if I'm not mistaken



Yeah I had one for a while, floyd worked fine but good lord that thing had a 2x4 for a neck


----------



## Hollowway

jephjacques said:


> Yeah I had one for a while, floyd worked fine but good lord that thing had a 2x4 for a neck


Damn, I would love one of those, but they’re way to pricey for me to rationalize, given my current 8 strings. At least it’s nice to hear that the neck is fat - it makes it feel better to not have one.


----------



## jephjacques

It was bonkers, like Les Paul thickness only 8 strings wide


----------



## pastanator

Hollowway said:


> Hmm Abasi Concepts seems cursed, and they’re trying to release a Floyd 8 guitar. The BC Rich reboot seems cursed, and they’re also trying to release a Floyd 8 guitar. Coincidence? I think not. Trying to make a 8 string guitar with a Floyd is the luthierie equivalent of looking in the mirror and saying Biggie Smalls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * _Editor’s note: Hollowway is aware that, in the actual movie, a character must say “Biggie Smalls” three times, in succession, for Biggie Smalls to appear. Hollowway is also very well aware that Schecter and Agile have, in the past, released an 8 string Floyd. He doesn’t care. He wants another one.)_


fixed


----------



## Davide-NYC

Pardon me if this has been answered here before, but has anyone received one of the Grover Jackson batch of Abasi Guitars? Are these things actually being built and shipped? I can't find anything online.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Hollowway said:


> Damn, I would love one of those, but they’re way to pricey for me to rationalize, given my current 8 strings. At least it’s nice to hear that the neck is fat - it makes it feel better to not have one.



Hey just tell Tom Drinkwater he needs to do it already. I remember when me and him were discussing it before I ordered a raptor. You could also take an ibanez rg2228 and install your own


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Davide-NYC said:


> Pardon me if this has been answered here before, but has anyone received one of the Grover Jackson batch of Abasi Guitars? Are these things actually being built and shipped? I can't find anything online.



I don't think so


----------



## arhg

So, one set of legit pictures of an actual Larada (beautiful btw!), and this thread goes absolutely bonkers and segways into every topic imaginable.
This cursed Kraken of a thread delivers


----------



## KnightBrolaire

arhg said:


> So, one set of legit pictures of an actual Larada (beautiful btw!), and this thread goes absolutely bonkers and segways into every topic imaginable.
> This cursed Kraken of a thread delivers


SSO'S law: No thread shall remain on topic for more than a page at a time.


----------



## narad

KnightBrolaire said:


> SSO'S law: No thread shall remain on topic for more than a page at a time.



What's a topic?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

narad said:


> What's a topic?


i think it's that thing bald people wear on their head to look like they actually have hair. or is that a mirkin?


----------



## Avedas

narad said:


> What's a topic?


It's just like a chat room name. Doesn't mean anything else.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Davide-NYC said:


> Pardon me if this has been answered here before, but has anyone received one of the Grover Jackson batch of Abasi Guitars? Are these things actually being built and shipped? I can't find anything online.



Mine is being shipped now. Sorry I'm not terribly active here, though I am in Modern Guitarists on facebook.

Mine is the all natural 8, I had refunded the build a few weeks after the build deadline since I decided to build a house and couldnt have a 2k bill that could pop up at any moment lol

Abasi emailed me completed photos a few weeks ago and offered the opportunity to still buy if I wanted to. Unfortunately I'm still a month away to close, but a friend of mine picked it up and should be taking delivery any day now


----------



## AmoryDrive

Pics of my build


----------



## cardinal

Gorgeous.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

10/10 I want one


----------



## Bdtunn

AmoryDrive said:


> Pics of my build
> View attachment 73506
> View attachment 73507
> View attachment 73508
> View attachment 73509
> View attachment 73510
> View attachment 73511




Absolutely killer looking guitar!!!!!! 

Now is this the part of the thread where we all pretend to notice imperfections with the guitar, then make them public and thus making amorydrive nervous....


----------



## BigViolin

String alignment looks good.

I'd hit it.


----------



## wannabguitarist

That's some nice ash


----------



## Hollowway

That’s awesome to see a “real” one being finished!


----------



## jephjacques

I like how they took pains to photograph the neck joint at the top of the body like "U SEE ANY FINISH FLAWS NOW BITCHES"


----------



## Extrafunk

I just really, REALLY like that neck joint!


----------



## BlackMastodon

Bdtunn said:


> Absolutely killer looking guitar!!!!!!
> 
> Now is this the part of the thread where we all pretend to notice imperfections with the guitar, then make them public and thus making amorydrive nervous....


That or the part of the thread where we all get false hope. Once again popping my head in to say I hope everything works out and people get good guitars. Would hate to see another SSO guitar run shit show but I can't help but get apprehensive when I see the first finished guitar pop up like the Lochness monster in these stories.


----------



## Demiurge

Well, you know what bad builders and ponzi schemes have in common is that _some_ people get their guitar/ROI to make it look like everything's above-board.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

That natty looks absolutely beautiful. 

I really hope these turn out great. Not just good or acceptable, but great. 

So, for folks more in the know, what's the plan going forward? I know they said that 6s are out and only the 8s are to be completed, but does that mean they're winding down or just working on the backlog of 8s only?


----------



## Pietjepieter

Stunning to see them coming to live in the end!

I really dig the design and hope they work out great!!


----------



## Kaura

Man, you guys are some of the most understanding/hypocritical (for the lack of better word(s)) people on this planet. First there's like +10-20 pages of flaming towards Abasi because they don't deliver anything (and all the shitshow with the first builder etc.) and once there's some real pics of a guitar you guys praise it and hope all the good for the brand. 

Just saying, that's all.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Demiurge said:


> Well, you know what bad builders and ponzi schemes have in common is that _some_ people get their guitar/ROI to make it look like everything's above-board.


this.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Kaura said:


> Man, you guys are some of the most understanding/hypocritical (for the lack of better word(s)) people on this planet. First there's like +10-20 pages of flaming towards Abasi because they don't deliver anything (and all the shitshow with the first builder etc.) and once there's some real pics of a guitar you guys praise it and hope all the good for the brand.
> 
> Just saying, that's all.



There's some nuance between criticizing them when they fuck up, and genuinely hoping things turn out well for the customers involved.


----------



## Kaura

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's some nuance between criticizing them when they fuck up, and genuinely hoping things turn out well for the customers involved.



True, but it feels like everyone was critizing them until they started "delivering" (quotes because I don' think anyone have actually got their guitar yet apart from the endorsed ones) and now everyone seems to love them despite their earlier shady actions.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Kaura said:


> True, but it feels like everyone was critizing them until they started "delivering" (quotes because I don' think anyone have actually got their guitar yet apart from the endorsed ones) and now everyone seems to love them despite their earlier shady actions.



Folks are being supportive and optimistic for the benefit of those who ordered and might receiving guitars, but I don't see any blind praise.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Kaura said:


> True, but it feels like everyone was critizing them until they started "delivering" (quotes because I don' think anyone have actually got their guitar yet apart from the endorsed ones) and now everyone seems to love them despite their earlier shady actions.



You're looking at this in a very surface level way, I'm not into dog piling on people until they've really fucked up. But at the same time you can acknowledge the facts, I remember going back and forth with Elysian over the semantics of the issues Grover's examples at NAMM had and the reality is they're 5 - 6 months past the projected deadline for their orders.

Seeing guitars produced is absolutely a call for some praise, but if you think anyone here forgets about the negatives and is blindly praising them you're sorely mistaken


----------



## Hollowway

Kaura said:


> Man, you guys are some of the most understanding/hypocritical (for the lack of better word(s)) people on this planet. First there's like +10-20 pages of flaming towards Abasi because they don't deliver anything (and all the shitshow with the first builder etc.) and once there's some real pics of a guitar you guys praise it and hope all the good for the brand.



Sounds like you’ve never rooted for a sports team.


----------



## Kaura

Hollowway said:


> Sounds like you’ve never rooted for a sports team.



I have, and because of that I can totally see the sudden change in attitude, but I've also learned that it's a very childish thing to do. Of course, being stubborn is too, I mean if Abasi actually becomes a prospering guitar company then it would be stupid to hate them forever because they had a rough start but man, to give a very rough example, it feels like if a child molester suddenly cured cancer when it comes to reading this thread.


----------



## prlgmnr

Yeah I don't know what you're seeing.

I mean, I wired them 5000 dollars as soon as I saw that picture on the last page but I don't see what that has to do with anything.


----------



## Seabeast2000

prlgmnr said:


> Yeah I don't know what you're seeing.
> 
> I mean, I wired them 5000 dollars as soon as I saw that picture on the last page but I don't see what that has to do with anything.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Kaura said:


> I have, and because of that I can totally see the sudden change in attitude, but I've also learned that it's a very childish thing to do. Of course, being stubborn is too, I mean if Abasi actually becomes a prospering guitar company then it would be stupid to hate them forever because they had a rough start but man, to give a very rough example, it feels like if a child molester suddenly cured cancer when it comes to reading this thread.



Comparing production/delivery issues to someone molesting a child is more than a little whack my dude, you got your point across earlier. You think people flip flop, but that's not the case. Now please stop while you're ahead because this last comment is absolutely moronic


----------



## Hollowway

Kaura said:


> I have, and because of that I can totally see the sudden change in attitude, but I've also learned that it's a very childish thing to do. Of course, being stubborn is too, I mean if Abasi actually becomes a prospering guitar company then it would be stupid to hate them forever because they had a rough start but man, to give a very rough example, it feels like if a child molester suddenly cured cancer when it comes to reading this thread.


I think it’s probably more that we’ve seen so many small guitar companies come out with good intentions, then stumble, then implode, so when one regains its footing we cheer like it’s a Disney movie where the nerd just scored a touchdown. (And I think my analogy is probably less caustic than yours ) In fact, Max has it right - no one is forgiving any prior transgressions, but if a customer actually avoids getting screwed over that’s a good thing.


----------



## axxessdenied

Hopefully whoever ordered gets a solid guitar. If anyone still places an order with these guys and they run into issues again down the road... well.... the signs were all there. lol 

It's incredible seeing the difference in launches between Solar and Wasabi Guitars


----------



## skmanga

Wabasi**


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Hollowway said:


> I think it’s probably more that we’ve seen so many small guitar companies come out with good intentions, then stumble, then implode, so when one regains its footing we cheer like it’s a Disney movie where the nerd just scored a touchdown. (And I think my analogy is probably less caustic than yours ) In fact, Max has it right - no one is forgiving any prior transgressions, but if a customer actually avoids getting screwed over that’s a good thing.



I think the point is more like people sort of acted like they DID regain their footing when in actuality all it is is a single guitar we've seen. lol

I hope for the best, obviously, but I don't have high hopes yet. I'll be happier once we see a handful more of them. 

Which is likely the only point dude was making. On the plus side, the one guitar we did see, while not my personal cup of tea (I like color,) looks to be in good order. Better than the whole s7g "no guitars for a long time then suddenly wooooooooorm hooooooooooles, you should be ecstatic that you got the privilege of woooooooorm hooooooles, you should've paid a premium but didn't because we're awesome."


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Nobody here wants to see a guitar company fail and people out of pocket with nothing to show. So many of us have been burnt badly which is why the pitchforks come out when we see troubling signs. So when we see finished guitars we can't help but be relieved.

Although nothing counts until the customer has a functional playable guitar in their hands.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Another Abasi rolled out today


----------



## jbaxter

glassmoon0fo said:


> Another Abasi rolled out today



Good lord, that is stunning.


----------



## spudmunkey

It's an 8 minute video, and the guitar isn't shown until the video is more than 50% over. And then after about 45 seconds, it's then pulled out-of-frame for another 30+ seconds.

Looks nice, though.


----------



## spudmunkey

spudmunkey said:


> It's an 8 minute video, and the guitar isn't shown until the video is more than 50% over. And then after about 45 seconds, it's then pulled out-of-frame for another 30+ seconds.
> 
> Looks nice, though.


So I took out my stopwatch app while on a boring conference call. In the 8:22 video, the guitar (at least about 1/2 of it) is only on screen for 1:21, and almost all of that is half off-camera, and none of those were close-ups. There is literally more footage, almost double, of just the empty case.

This annoys me more than those hipster-chic promo videos.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Yeah I asked the guy for more deets after he tunes it up, that vid gave me blue balls


----------



## sezna

Anybody wanna buy this OG frank one and tell me how it is?
https://reverb.com/item/28496790-abasi-guitars-larada-8-multi-scale-2018-burl-maple-natural


----------



## Avedas

sezna said:


> Anybody wanna buy this OG frank one and tell me how it is?
> https://reverb.com/item/28496790-abasi-guitars-larada-8-multi-scale-2018-burl-maple-natural


I played basically that exact guitar except with a maple fretboard. It was a really excellent guitar if you could get over the "buffing compound" shenanigans, which the one I played definitely had. I posted pictures of it somewhere way earlier in this thread.


----------



## Jonathan20022

I like the part where he yells out FLAME MAPLE and shows the camera the neck to reveal the single stripe of flame in the very middle of the neck 

Stoked for him, guy seems really excited to get it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

sezna said:


> Anybody wanna buy this OG frank one and tell me how it is?
> https://reverb.com/item/28496790-abasi-guitars-larada-8-multi-scale-2018-burl-maple-natural



I love that they just copied and pasted the engrish from the Digimart listing.


----------



## @zwen

I’m actually stoked off this company. I love their current artist roster too. Stephen Tittyfucking Taranto is unreal.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

@zwen said:


> I’m actually stoked off this company. I love their current artist roster too. Stephen Tittyfucking Taranto is unreal.



I wonder how he earned the Tittyfuck nickname tbh


----------



## Joan Maal

spudmunkey said:


> It's an 8 minute video, and the guitar isn't shown until the video is more than 50% over. And then after about 45 seconds, it's then pulled out-of-frame for another 30+ seconds.
> 
> Looks nice, though.



I cant see shit


----------



## jbaxter

That guy has since put up two more videos:


----------



## iamaom

Come on asian dude, plug the damn thing in!


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Well 2 guitars out in the wild (and looking quite nice) is certainly a step up from none. Gives me hope that maybe we'll start seeing more of them in the near future. Would be really cool to see such a shit show turn into a happy ending. Especially because I just like Tosin as a person, let alone an artist. (Plus all the folks who dumped tons of cash into this getting what they paid for for once..)


----------



## Thaeon

I just get sad when I see people put their money into something and then it never shows up.


----------



## Vede

So, whatever happened to Abasi Guitars? I like the look of them, but since the production shakeup at the start of the year, have any more instruments actually been built and shipped out to customers? Did the company die and I missed it, or are they just building super low quantities and therefore flying under the radar vs., say, Solar Guitars, who seem to be everywhere by comparison?


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

Darn it....I just narrowed down my GAS to Oni (essi 7/8) or Padalka (Saturn or Pluto) and now I see Abasi made a guitar just like them, but with the pickups I love......darn it darn it darn it

What do these cost? Couldn’t find a definitive answer?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Darn it....I just narrowed down my GAS to Oni (essi 7/8) or Padalka (Saturn or Pluto) and now I see Abasi made a guitar just like them, but with the pickups I love......darn it darn it darn it
> 
> What do these cost? Couldn’t find a definitive answer?


They cost more than money as evidenced by this thread...


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

Oni or Padalka it is!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Oni or Padalka it is!



base price was about $2350 or in and around that if I remember right


----------



## AltecGreen

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Darn it....I just narrowed down my GAS to Oni (essi 7/8) or Padalka (Saturn or Pluto) and now I see Abasi made a guitar just like them, but with the pickups I love......darn it darn it darn it
> 
> What do these cost? Couldn’t find a definitive answer?




Here are the older ones for sale in Japan. I saw most of these in person a few weeks ago. 
https://www.digimart.net/search?category12Id=359&keywordAnd=larada&x=0&y=0


----------



## StevenC

https://twitter.com/Leqtique/status/1186168718218293248


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> https://twitter.com/Leqtique/status/1186168718218293248



Larada J? So have they moved production again?


----------



## SamSam

Is that a thin laminate or is the angle deceiving?


----------



## Fred the Shred

Leqtique makes sense - Shun knows what he's doing and he's always been close to Tosin. I take it this is the import line that didn't exist officially yet was hinted at at NAMM.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> Larada J? So have they moved production again?


I think these will be the main import line, what becomes of the "custom"/USA stuff remains to be seen. I'm also not sure how available these will be, or if it'll be like a Boden J stuff where it's mostly for that market



SamSam said:


> Is that a thin laminate or is the angle deceiving?


I think these are essentially just Boden J Standards with a different shape and construction. Probably the same veneer that appears on most Boden Js.


----------



## Avedas

Oh that's actually more interesting to me than a custom. I didn't realize a production line might happen


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Interesting that it's a bolt on.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Typically, they're more cost effective and allow for better streamlining of the building process while minimizing waste, so it's not a bad move from a "getting production in gear" perspective at all.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

I’m sort of confused.have people ordered and received them? If so how is the quality


----------



## spudmunkey

ElysianGuitars said:


> Interesting that it's a bolt on.



Without knowing if those holes in the pocket go all the way through and aren't just CNC locating pins...is it possible that it's still a set neck?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> Without knowing if those holes in the pocket go all the way through and aren't just CNC locating pins...is it possible that it's still a set neck?



If it is, it's not a very good one. 

That's not really how you typically do set necks.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

spudmunkey said:


> Without knowing if those holes in the pocket go all the way through and aren't just CNC locating pins...is it possible that it's still a set neck?


They wouldn't be finishing body and neck separately if it were a set neck, and no reason to do a stamp in the pocket. You don't need 2 pins in the neck pocket to register on a CNC either.


----------



## ThePIGI King

Bolt on all the way.

Now where's my 8 with a floyd


----------



## spudmunkey

They got a little carried away with sanding around the edges of the pickup cutouts and the perimeter of that quilted top.


----------



## Albake21

My god is this company horrible with communication. It's just one big free for all shit show.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

In fairness they probably wanted to keep the news of a j model secret until winter naam


----------



## StevenC

I'm going to say again that the guy behind Abasi J is the guy behind Strandberg J, so it's probably run as separately as Strandberg.


----------



## A-Branger

you guys realize theres another letter next to the "J" no?





...unless its an "8"


----------



## MaxOfMetal

A-Branger said:


> you guys realize theres another letter next to the "J" no?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...unless its an "8"



Read the linked Tweet.


----------



## jephjacques

The Boden Js I tried in Tokyo were pretty solid, I'd consider picking one of these up if they make some in solid colors too. I can't stand veneer tops.


----------



## Avedas

My main issue with a bunch of the Boden J veneer tops I've seen is the color from the finish bleeding into the sides past the top. A lot of them have white bodies except for the top and the bleeding really stands out with those.

They have done some solid colors though: https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop3620/DS05270247/


----------



## Thaeon

spudmunkey said:


> They got a little carried away with sanding around the edges of the pickup cutouts and the perimeter of that quilted top.



Why are they sanding that edge at all after staining the top? Shouldn't that already be done prior to staining? If they're worried about the inner edges, just paint inside the cavity instead of leaving the wood bare. There's going to be pickups in there and no one will care that its not bare wood.


----------



## j3ps3

Thaeon said:


> Why are they sanding that edge at all after staining the top? Shouldn't that already be done prior to staining? If they're worried about the inner edges, just paint inside the cavity instead of leaving the wood bare. There's going to be pickups in there and no one will care that its not bare wood.



That is normally the kind of sanding you do when you're going to make a see-thru color. You can't just stain it black and add another color on top of the black. You need to sand some of the stain off. Also, if you sand the body with too fine grit, the stain won't be able to penetrate through the wood as well.

This is pretty much why I'm not keen on giving in-progress-pics of my builds. Same goes with food, it can look messy while you're making it, but that doesn't mean it's gonna look and taste like shit, when it's ready. Don't teach your dad how to make babies.


----------



## A-Branger

MaxOfMetal said:


> Read the linked Tweet.


missed that one


----------



## Thaeon

j3ps3 said:


> That is normally the kind of sanding you do when you're going to make a see-thru color. You can't just stain it black and add another color on top of the black. You need to sand some of the stain off. Also, if you sand the body with too fine grit, the stain won't be able to penetrate through the wood as well.
> 
> This is pretty much why I'm not keen on giving in-progress-pics of my builds. Same goes with food, it can look messy while you're making it, but that doesn't mean it's gonna look and taste like shit, when it's ready. Don't teach your dad how to make babies.



Interesting. This is probably why I would be a shit guitar builder.  I also have almost no interest at all in translucent finishes, and I've only owned a couple guitars that have had them. I don't like worrying about how all sorts of things will affect the appearance of my guitars. They get beat up. I don't want to care. Different strokes I guess.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

j3ps3 said:


> That is normally the kind of sanding you do when you're going to make a see-thru color. You can't just stain it black and add another color on top of the black. You need to sand some of the stain off. Also, if you sand the body with too fine grit, the stain won't be able to penetrate through the wood as well.
> 
> This is pretty much why I'm not keen on giving in-progress-pics of my builds. Same goes with food, it can look messy while you're making it, but that doesn't mean it's gonna look and taste like shit, when it's ready. Don't teach your dad how to make babies.


You don't necessarily have to sand back (especially with veneer). The main issue with sanding back on veneer is it's very easy to sand through. You can gradually apply certain colors to get the effect you want without sanding back, though it's somewhat dependent on the dyes used/what color scheme you're going for.


----------



## Minute Man

Finally! My Larada by GJ is arrived at somewhere east Asia!
I might not be able to post any review video, sorry.
But as I checked it’s well built and super light.
So it’s true, Abasi guitars concepts is delivering!
Thanks all!


----------



## arhg

All right, the steady stream of pictures of actual delivered Laradas are giving me a rock solid hardon mixed with a little bit of careful hope....


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Sweet. I'm happy that things (fingers crossed) are finally moving along. Here's hoping the good news keeps up.


----------



## Vyn

I’m reserving judgement until more comes to light about what happened with Falbo. That front has been suspiciously quiet is of late.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

arhg said:


> All right, the steady stream of pictures of actual delivered Laradas are giving me a rock solid hardon mixed with a little bit of careful hope....



As far as I know, there's been like one (1) actual delivery. 

Lets wait for double digits and round two before celebrating.


----------



## 77zark77

....


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Delivering them is one thing, the second thing is if they're actually fine and without any flaws.


----------



## frank falbo

Vyn said:


> I’m reserving judgement until more comes to light about what happened with Falbo. That front has been suspiciously quiet is of late.


I wouldn’t consider quietness as suspicious. There’s nothing for me to add outside of what I’d still consider confidential.

Bottom line is, as others have already observed within this thread, the public has seen a few Grovers delivered, and bolt-on versions being started in Japan. Both are good shops, both make good guitars.

If anyone has a specific question just find me on socials and DM me.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

MaxOfMetal said:


> As far as I know, there's been like one (1) actual delivery.
> 
> Lets wait for double digits and round two before celebrating.




This is my mentality. I'm glad we've seen something, but I wouldn't say it's a steady stream by a long shot. More like a drop out of a faucet that's been shut off for a while. Lol


----------



## cip 123

Vyn said:


> I’m reserving judgement until more comes to light about what happened with Falbo. That front has been suspiciously quiet is of late.


You probably never will. It'll all be under legal processing and probably with disclosure agreements. Unless specifically brought up in an interview (and even then Tosin and co will probably object to speak of it) it likely won't surface again. 

Frank had a decent reputation before this and this was followed by some weird "he said she said" situation. Tosin had was involved in this whole situation plus more imo, the just general bad marketing/timelines etc.

You're left to make your own decision on both. Frank probably still makes a great guitar, and still has a pretty stellar reputation in the industry i bet given his past jobs, Duncan Fishman etc. And Tosin, well Grover makes em now so they've gotta be pretty decent and if your guitar turns up with flaws, you have the power of the internet and social media to call him out and cut through all the marketing bull.


----------



## arhg

MaxOfMetal said:


> As far as I know, there's been like one (1) actual delivery.
> 
> Lets wait for double digits and round two before celebrating.



At the time I was writing it I'd seen two videos and a picture of a gray thing, and one in a natural finish, in addition to the Larada J necks.

In hindsight the hardon was unjustified... as are most hardons i've learned


----------



## Exit Existence

Makes me laugh, I noticed browsing some popular China merchandise websites that they are making China counterfeits of the Tosin Ibanez custom Abasi model LOL Please no-one buy one because they will just be a guitar-shaped object and a dumpster fire, but I found this pretty hilarious. The Chinese fakers will stop at nothing hahaha


----------



## StevenC

Exit Existence said:


> Makes me laugh, I noticed browsing some popular China merchandise websites that they are making China counterfeits of the Tosin Ibanez custom Abasi model LOL Please no-one buy one because they will just be a guitar-shaped object and a dumpster fire, but I found this pretty hilarious. The Chinese fakers will stop at nothing hahaha


You're like 170 pages late.


----------



## prlgmnr

StevenC said:


> You're like 170 pages late.


Did you hear Necrophagist recorded "Epitaph" one note at a time?


----------



## Lemonbaby

Exit Existence said:


> Makes me laugh, I noticed browsing some popular China merchandise websites that they are making China counterfeits of the Tosin Ibanez custom Abasi model LOL Please no-one buy one because they will just be a guitar-shaped object [...]


At least you'll get something...


----------



## Frostbite

prlgmnr said:


> Did you hear Necrophagist recorded "Epitaph" one note at a time?


Did you hear of the dude From Haarp Machine threatening to burn the other band members houses down?


----------



## Dayn

Frostbite said:


> Did you hear of the dude From Haarp Machine threatening to burn the other band members houses down?


I heard he was going to use Guitar Pro to do it.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

It’s been ages since there’s been any news, anyone had any emails (or guitars)?


----------



## lurè

Dayn said:


> I heard he was going to use Guitar Pro to do it.



Or just light a match and make it bigger in the studio


----------



## cip 123

Dayn said:


> I heard he was going to use Guitar Pro to do it.


He's using Vocal Pro 9 now


----------



## srrdude

eww. The j models are up on reverb. Thats a reaaaaally ugly neck joint for 4k usd


----------



## MaxOfMetal

srrdude said:


> eww. The j models are up on reverb. Thats a reaaaaally ugly neck joint for 4k usd



Better picture:



I see no functional issues or errors.


----------



## SamSam

Awesome shade of red, can't stand that Jack position though.


----------



## narad

I don't know, pretty cool to me. I was going to go check out something else in that store on Friday anyway, so I can let you know (if I don't come across as the guy that's asking to play everything with no intention to buy).


----------



## cardinal

Looks cool to me. I can't imagine that neck joint actually would impede any playing.

I like how the fretboard is much wider now.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Craftsmanship looks good from the pics. 

I can't understand why they made the fretboard so much wider. The whole point was to have thinner string spacing that a regular guitar on a thinner fretboard so the 8s would be closer to the width of a 7 string fretboard.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

You could get an american for cheaper???


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jack McGoldrick said:


> You could get an american for cheaper???



_Can you?_


----------



## Mathemagician

That’s a lot of extra fretboard. It looks normal at the low end then widens our faster than the string spacing as it approaches.


----------



## jephjacques

Looks pretty good, although not $4000 good IMO


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I kind of like the excess fretboard. String spacing looks good, and you're in zero danger of bending strings off the fretboard. Not really a huge issue in general, but it looks snug and comfy way up in the higher register.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

MaxOfMetal said:


> _Can you?_


Yeah, baseline American models well coming in about £2350 (yes pounds don’t bully me)


----------



## gienek

Really im not a fan of tight string spacing. I think this design counteracts playability IMO.


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Yeah, baseline American models well coming in about £2350 (yes pounds don’t bully me)


I don't think that's what he's asking.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

I like wider fretboards myself, makes bending on the upper and lower string easier.


----------



## AltecGreen

Just saw this on Twitter.


narad said:


> I don't know, pretty cool to me. I was going to go check out something else in that store on Friday anyway, so I can let you know (if I don't come across as the guy that's asking to play everything with no intention to buy).




You take your chances at G-Club. You may have better luck at Miyaji in Kanda. They seem a bit more laid back than G-Club and not as tightly packed. They have the biggest selection of these as well as the older Falbo Laradas. Of course, that's on the other side of town. It looks like Miyaji discounted the older guitars to match the prices of the new ones.


----------



## narad

AltecGreen said:


> Just saw this on Twitter.
> You take your chances at G-Club. You may have better luck at Miyaji in Kanda. They seem a bit more laid back than G-Club and not as tightly packed. They have the biggest selection of these as well as the older Falbo Laradas. Of course, that's on the other side of town. It looks like Miyaji discounted the older guitars to match the prices of the new ones.



Yea, I went with my friend when he bought his Dusenberg there so they're maybe cool with trying out a bunch. Not really a fan of the ones they have though.


----------



## cardinal

I bought a bass from G-Club (via Reverb; I'm in the US), and it was smooth transaction. They seem like good people.

Oh, and the really good news about the wider fretboards: I don't think there would need to be massive CNC-programming changes to implement a straight-scale Floyd 8 now. The Floyd 8 has such wide string spacing, the strings looked really really really close to the edge on the original batch. Now, this neck will easily accommodate the Floyd 8, so they'd just need to program for straight-scale fret slots and to place the bridge etc.


----------



## AltecGreen

cardinal said:


> I bought a bass from G-Club (via Reverb; I'm in the US), and it was smooth transaction. They seem like good people.



Online, they are great. I've bought from Kurosawa (G-Club is part of Kurosawa) online and it was fine. Going to one of the stores and trying out a lot of guitars can be hit or miss depending on the staff.


----------



## Albake21

These Japanese models look nice, but aren't they even more expensive than the USA custom shop ones?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Albake21 said:


> These Japanese models look nice, but aren't they even more expensive than the USA custom shop ones?


Yeah more expensive than the baseline american ones


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Oh I really dislike when there isn't enough room for the high E and it slips off while playing. It was the reason Ibanez changed from 66mm to 68mm necks on their 7s. But the point of the thinner spacing and fretboard width was so they wouldn't feel so bulky accommodating 8 strings and be closer to the width of a 7. 

It looks like they added on about 3mm to the fretboard unless they've made the string spacing even smaller. Hard to know unless you compared the two models.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Albake21 said:


> These Japanese models look nice, but aren't they even more expensive than the USA custom shop ones?



At least the chances of actually getting one are better.


----------



## jbaxter

Another image
source: https://twitter.com/MiyajiGakki_K/status/1194511547973791745


----------



## jbaxter

And another. Not sure how I feel about this finish but its unique to say the least haha


----------



## Dayn

It's like a faux pickguard. Interesting. I'm glad to see these are finally coming out.


----------



## cardinal

Totally love the solid color ones.


----------



## StevenC

cardinal said:


> Totally love the solid color ones.


There are no solid colours. The colours are trans red, trans white, trans blue and natural.

https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop28/DS05737279/

This does it for me.


----------



## Vyn

StevenC said:


> There are no solid colours. The colours are trans red, trans white, trans blue and natural.
> 
> https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop28/DS05737279/
> 
> This does it for me.



That's hawt. No complaints at all about that. Only issue I guess is the price tag - you'd have to be a serious musician who uses music as an income or be a hobbyist with a secure financial position and a lot of disposable income to justify it. Considering where it's made, the volume in which they are being made (I'm guessing rather low volume) and the components selected (Fishman's etc), the price is about on par.


----------



## AltecGreen

Vyn said:


> That's hawt. No complaints at all about that. Only issue I guess is the price tag - you'd have to be a serious musician who uses music as an income or be a hobbyist with a secure financial position and a lot of disposable income to justify it. Considering where it's made, the volume in which they are being made (I'm guessing rather low volume) and the components selected (Fishman's etc), the price is about on par.




The price is a bit steep but comparable to a Japanese made Strandberg. Actually, the Japanese Strandbergs can go much higher.


----------



## narad

Vyn said:


> That's hawt. No complaints at all about that. Only issue I guess is the price tag - you'd have to be a serious musician who uses music as an income or be a hobbyist with a secure financial position and a lot of disposable income to justify it. Considering where it's made, the volume in which they are being made (I'm guessing rather low volume) and the components selected (Fishman's etc), the price is about on par.



If you think that's expensive, try normalizing by the average Japan income.


----------



## Hollowway

jbaxter said:


> And another. Not sure how I feel about this finish but its unique to say the least haha



I am a huge fan of Tosin's, and I hope to one day get one of these, but JFC, that is ugly. I actually thought it was one of the Chinese knockoffs.


----------



## jephjacques

The veneers kill it for me. If they come out with some Js in solid colors I'd be severely tempted.


----------



## diagrammatiks

An majesty and that abasi and you're well on your way to a well stocked winter cabin.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Ooooowee I actually like that two tone color scheme, literally dressed in pants and a pullover to match as we speak and I look sharp as fuck.


----------



## Avedas

AltecGreen said:


> Just saw this on Twitter.
> 
> 
> 
> You take your chances at G-Club. You may have better luck at Miyaji in Kanda. They seem a bit more laid back than G-Club and not as tightly packed. They have the biggest selection of these as well as the older Falbo Laradas. Of course, that's on the other side of town. It looks like Miyaji discounted the older guitars to match the prices of the new ones.


I think they fired that one asshole who worked at G-Club. It's been a lot more pleasant in recent months.

I might need to pop on over to Miyaji this weekend to take a look at the 7 strings.


----------



## Kaura

jbaxter said:


> And another. Not sure how I feel about this finish but its unique to say the least haha



This is the first one that I actually find somewhat appealing. The body shape still looks too futuristic for my taste, though.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

If I was dead set on one I'd get this. Maybe with a maple neck do make the blue pop more.


----------



## StevenC

Lorcan Ward said:


> If I was dead set on one I'd get this. Maybe with a maple neck do make the blue pop more.


White pickups...


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Only question I have now is what's going on with Grover? That's a lot of J's produced in a much shorter amount of time than the 4 Grover builds we've seen. Been a LOT of Friedmans produced since this thing started...


----------



## cardinal

ElysianGuitars said:


> Only question I have now is what's going on with Grover? That's a lot of J's produced in a much shorter amount of time than the 4 Grover builds we've seen. Been a LOT of Friedmans produced since this thing started...



Dunno how long the Fujigen (?) shop has been working on the Larada Js; could have been a long time coming? I can only imagine that the J-style neck heel and bolt on vastly simplify the build and improve consistency. The original set neck and heel look pretty but just seemed like it would be a nightmare to build, particularly with the wenge neck.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

cardinal said:


> Dunno how long the Fujigen (?) shop has been working on the Larada Js; could have been a long time coming? I can only imagine that the J-style neck heel and bolt on vastly simplify the build and improve consistency. The original set neck and heel look pretty but just seemed like it would be a nightmare to build, particularly with the wenge neck.


It's not really a big difference in build. Slightly tighter pocket, but if you're doing everything CNC, it's the difference between glue or bolts. Slightly harder to finish, but again not more than an hours worth of work.

Also pretty sure it's not Fujigen.


----------



## Avedas

I just realized the upper part of the body looks a bit out of proportion on the 7 strings. The 8s look more balanced.


----------



## jemfloral

It sounded as though the Grover builds were still going to be finished up (for the already ordered ones anyways), and it seems that these Larada J's are completely separate production line.

If I had to guess: they'll move away from any further Grover / "custom shop" builds and move just to production builds until they can recoup the funds that were invested into the various previous attempts at custom shop experiences.


----------



## spudmunkey

Avedas said:


> I just realized the upper part of the body looks a bit out of proportion on the 7 strings. The 8s look more balanced.


 I have been noticing this lately. Manufacturers wanting to streamline design, and possibly even production, by using the exact same body for different string counts. The treble side is the reference side, and the neck gets wider on the bass side. This often seems to make for a more balanced look over all on the wider necks, but can make the 7 and especially the 6 look "off". People say the same thing about the Kiesel Zeus, and one other one I took notice of lately that I cant remember off the top of my head...


----------



## ElysianGuitars

spudmunkey said:


> I have been noticing this lately. Manufacturers wanting to streamline design, and possibly even production, by using the exact same body for different string counts. The treble side is the reference side, and the neck gets wider on the bass side. This often seems to make for a more balanced look over all. People say the same thing about the Kiesel Zeus, and one other one I took notice of lately that I cant remember off the top of my head.


I've alway kept 6 and 7 string bodies the same, and added a little on for 8 string (and ostensibly 9 string would be the same as 8 string, but 10 would need more, only 9 string I've done was a one-off design). I believe Ibanez does it this way as well.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

jemfloral said:


> It sounded as though the Grover builds were still going to be finished up (for the already ordered ones anyways), and it seems that these Larada J's are completely separate production line.
> 
> If I had to guess: they'll move away from any further Grover / "custom shop" builds and move just to production builds until they can recoup the funds that were invested into the various previous attempts at custom shop experiences.


Probably the best way to go. Custom shop sounds great, but production is where the money is.


----------



## Albake21

ElysianGuitars said:


> I've alway kept 6 and 7 string bodies the same, and added a little on for 8 string (and ostensibly 9 string would be the same as 8 string, but 10 would need more, only 9 string I've done was a one-off design). I believe Ibanez does it this way as well.


I was just about to say this. Ibanez does the same thing and it never really bothered me. Sometimes I actually prefer the look of the bodies staying the same, regardless of string count. For example, Kiesel's body shapes look fine with the bodies being the same.


----------



## StevenC

Labrada Js are made in the same place as Boden Js, which last I checked was Dyna Gakki.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

For reference I thought this would be good: “Known as the Larada, three configurations are available; the flagship Larada 8 ($2,399), Telecaster-vibed Space T ($2,469) and the Larada 6 ($2,399).” https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....e-abasi-concepts-larada-are-finally-available


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> For reference I thought this would be good: “Known as the Larada, three configurations are available; the flagship Larada 8 ($2,399), Telecaster-vibed Space T ($2,469) and the Larada 6 ($2,399).” https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....e-abasi-concepts-larada-are-finally-available


Guitars you can't buy right now


----------



## BlackMastodon

Really dig that shade of blue but one tidbit that's bugging me more than it should is how the veneer is cut off on the lower horn. Why not use the extra 3 square inches of Veneer and cover the whole horn? It's not like it flows in the same way as the other lines of where the veneer is cut.


----------



## kisielk

Yeah, the lower horn also looks really out of place to me, especially on the red & natural one. I guess it's because it's beveled (you can see the bevel clearly in the photo where a whole bunch of them are laid out on the ground) so any veneer laid flat on the top surface would get carved away during the bevelling.

I remember the earlier runs of Vaders that Kiesel did had the same problem with their forearm bevel and it looked really out of place. It seems they found a way to fix that though since the newer builds don't seem to have the same problem.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

BlackMastodon said:


> Really dig that shade of blue but one tidbit that's bugging me more than it should is how the veneer is cut off on the lower horn. Why not use the extra 3 square inches of Veneer and cover the whole horn? It's not like it flows in the same way as the other lines of where the veneer is cut.



It's hard to tell in those photos, but the lower horn is beveled. It would look sort of weird to have the veneer make that bevel.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

It's like a Tele flew into a windshield.


----------



## Soya

Gah. That is just so, so gross.


----------



## StevenC

Turns out these are only for the Japanese market, unfortunately.


----------



## diagrammatiks

StevenC said:


> Turns out these are only for the Japanese market, unfortunately.



Did they give any indication they wouldn't be?
If it's anything like the J boden agreement it's basically a franchised licensing deal for the Japanese domestic market.


----------



## StevenC

diagrammatiks said:


> Did they give any indication they wouldn't be?
> If it's anything like the J boden agreement it's basically a franchised licensing deal for the Japanese domestic market.


Yeah, it's exactly like the J Boden thing because it's the same people. But J Bodens were available internationally for a few years. And given that it's exactly like the J Boden situation there was the possibility that they would be available internationally, and there was some mention around NAMM of Japanese production, which typically wouldn't get airtime around NAMM if it were Japan only. So I asked.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

A bit strange there are Japenese Abasi's available to buy now but their FB and IG haven't posted anything about the Larada in months.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> A bit strange there are Japenese Abasi's available to buy now but their FB and IG haven't posted anything about the Larada in months.



It's that level of apathy that really makes you question the future of the brand. 

Though perhaps they don't want to stoke the hordes when these aren't available globally for the time being.


----------



## narad

StevenC said:


> Turns out these are only for the Japanese market, unfortunately.



Nothing's just for the Japanese market these days though. A bunch of these stores ship overseas.


----------



## Avedas

I played a J7 today. Construction was fine but the veneer looks a bit weird to me in person. I didn't get along with the neck at all. On the bass side it's paper thin but on the treble side it and fattens up suddenly and gets round. I also wasn't a fan of the neck joint. There's a tiny gap where your thumb kind of slides into from behind, and it narrows into a small slit between the neck and body which had about ~0.5-1mm of space in between. I can only imagine all the dust and garbage that'll get stuck in there.

Personally I preferred the old Falbo models. This one was a lot harder for me to play and it was pretty uncomfortable on the high frets. YMMV of course.

Also my opinion of Fluences lowers every time I play a guitar with them, but that's a different story.


----------



## ImNotAhab

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It's like a Tele flew into a windshield.



I'm digging the Abasacaster.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

kisielk said:


> Yeah, the lower horn also looks really out of place to me, especially on the red & natural one. I guess it's because it's beveled (you can see the bevel clearly in the photo where a whole bunch of them are laid out on the ground) so any veneer laid flat on the top surface would get carved away during the bevelling.
> 
> I remember the earlier runs of Vaders that Kiesel did had the same problem with their forearm bevel and it looked really out of place. It seems they found a way to fix that though since the newer builds don't seem to have the same problem.



With the vader is was a full top that would crack when they folded it over the bevel. Not sure what they changed, but a lot of people were irritated because other brands were easily pulling off a similar bend. Veneers are pretty pliable. I have a beveled schecter avenger that has a veneer on top. Both the headstock and the body have bevels with the veneer over it. If abasi wanted they could make the entire front figured, bevels and all, I feel.


----------



## Jonathan20022

The bevel is really mild in angle from the flat top of the guitar, should be possible. And when I spoke to Falbo briefly about speccing an Abasi back when he was involved he told me he'd gladly be able to do it and then promptly offered me a 1pc Flame Walnut (?) body as a potential other option.

Wish the Abasi/Falbo relationship would have worked out, because Falbo was totally willing to go past the builder and add atypical specs.


----------



## AxeHappy

I once successfully bent veneer around the horns of an RG7620 to veneer the side of a project guitar. And I am far from any sort of skilled wood worker. 

If I can do it with some heat activated glue and a clothes iron I don't buy it when a production company says they, "can't," do it. Maybe it isn't worth it to them to do the work to make it happen, but they are able to do it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

To be clear, I don't believe anyone from the Abasi/J camp has said it's "impossible" to do. 

I think it was a stylistic choice, obviously a polarizing one.


----------



## cardinal

Yeah I have assumed it was an intentional choice to highlight the idea of beveling the lower horn


----------



## A-Branger

cardinal said:


> Yeah I have assumed it was an intentional choice to highlight the idea of beveling the lower horn


the lower horn bevel has been there since the Ibanez prototypes. What I dont get is why use veneers on such expensive Jap made guitars. When a top (not even too thick )would have given a nice "binding" effect on the beveled edge


----------



## Ziricote

Im in market for one these soon


----------



## Hollowway

Ziricote said:


> Im in market for one these soon



But these aren't in the market for you, yet.


----------



## axxessdenied

Have any customers that aren't known artist received any guitars yet?


----------



## Minute Man

ESP CRAFT HOUSE (a shop) post this on their facebook. I like the smile.


----------



## narad

A-Branger said:


> the lower horn bevel has been there since the Ibanez prototypes. What I dont get is why use veneers on such expensive Jap made guitars. When a top (not even too thick )would have given a nice "binding" effect on the beveled edge



Because then they'd be *more* expensive. Most people don't care about top thickness on a flat-top, nor should they.


----------



## Lemons

narad said:


> Because then they'd be *more* expensive. Most people don't care about top thickness on a flat-top, nor should they.



Using a veneer on a design such as this with aggressive bevels is a poor choice. I'm not here to make the tone debate, aesthetically it just looks terrible.


----------



## j3ps3

narad said:


> Most people don't care about top thickness on a flat-top, nor should they.



Really? It's pretty much all you guys are talking about now.


----------



## A-Branger

^^ exaclty.
if this was a fullt flat top then fair enough, specially if it had binding (lets say a telecaster) as you wont really see the top. But in this case with such big bevels, you can see it. And the smallest "top" would at least add a nice natural edge on the bevel. With this guitar the veneer looks like a veneer


----------



## Avedas

A-Branger said:


> ^^ exaclty.
> if this was a fullt flat top then fair enough, specially if it had binding (lets say a telecaster) as you wont really see the top. But in this case with such big bevels, you can see it. And the smallest "top" would at least add a nice natural edge on the bevel. With this guitar the veneer looks like a veneer


Yep, this was my thought too. I normally don't give a shit about veneers because there's really no way to tell unless it looks hyper fake or you already know. However in a case such as this it's very obvious it's a veneer.


----------



## narad

Some of you guys are conflating the issue: whether the top is thick, and whether the top covers the lower horn completely. These are mutually exclusive things. The second one, like it or dislike it, is an intentional design point -- they could have covered it with a veneer just as well. It's the design:







A thicker top doesn't change that. It just leaves more of a weird transitional view of the wood along the top arc bevel that is already fairly wide as it is. I think it'd look terrible with that transition extending another inch.


----------



## jephjacques

hey, terrible looking bevels never stopped Kiesel


----------



## Thaeon

Its a forward thinking design. There's never been a doubt in my mind that the choice of veneer and bevel has been anything but a choice in design. All forward thinking designs are divisive. That's part of what makes them what they are. You either love it our hate it. Either is an appropriate response. I'm just glad that things like multiscale and 8 strings are common place now. I remember when Conklin was making the first Sidewinders and they were ungodly expensive. Especially for the early/mid 2000's. I laid down less than I'd spend on a new Les Paul Custom for an Oni early this year.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Pointless lower horn bevel is pointless.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Thaeon said:


> Its a forward thinking design. There's never been a doubt in my mind that the choice of veneer and bevel has been anything but a choice in design. All forward thinking designs are divisive. That's part of what makes them what they are. You either love it our hate it. Either is an appropriate response. I'm just glad that things like multiscale and 8 strings are common place now. I remember when Conklin was making the first Sidewinders and they were ungodly expensive. Especially for the early/mid 2000's. I laid down less than I'd spend on a new Les Paul Custom for an Oni early this year.



It just looks like a swoopy single cut like you'd see on every bass in the 90's. I don't see what's so "forward thinking" about it. 

Tosin was rocking something almost identical nearly 15 years ago (his TIL 8).


----------



## Thaeon

MaxOfMetal said:


> It just looks like a swoopy single cut like you'd see on every bass in the 90's. I don't see what's so "forward thinking" about it.
> 
> Tosin was rocking something almost identical nearly 15 years ago (his TIL 8).



You're 100% right. Though I think the strandy influenced bits are a little different. But we're talking about a community at large (not here obviously) that still thinks Gibson's Flying V, Explorer, and Modurne are edgy. 8 strings and multiscale are hard enough to take. Forget the Larada. I'm not super inspired by the design. But I'm not super inspired by Tosin either. So it's clearly not meant for me. It is however a challenging shape to MOST guitar players since we represent a pretty small (though actively buying/influencing) demographic.


----------



## A-Branger

narad said:


> Some of you guys are conflating the issue: whether the top is thick, and whether the top covers the lower horn completely. These are mutually exclusive things. The second one, like it or dislike it, is an intentional design point -- they could have covered it with a veneer just as well. It's the design:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A thicker top doesn't change that. It just leaves more of a weird transitional view of the wood along the top arc bevel that is already fairly wide as it is. I think it'd look terrible with that transition extending another inch.



the pic you post is the one with a graphic, so it does looks good being only at the flat top. But one thing is a graphic, another is a wood "top"

see this guitar






see how much better it looks as it shows the top being a "top", versus the hard cut veneer






Im not saying these needs to have a full thick top like the old ones, as the angle of the bevels would exaggerate the edge of it (like on a Kiesel). IT only needs a thin top to get away with a nice edge and a good looking guitar


----------



## MaxOfMetal

A-Branger said:


> the pic you post is the one with a graphic, so it does looks good being only at the flat top. But one thing is a graphic, another is a wood "top"
> 
> see this guitar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see how much better it looks as it shows the top being a "top", versus the hard cut veneer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not saying these needs to have a full thick top like the old ones, as the angle of the bevels would exaggerate the edge of it (like on a Kiesel). IT only needs a thin top to get away with a nice edge and a good looking guitar



Between those two, the blue looks much better and "cleaner" having the lines of the body create a hard edge for the end of the veneer.

Which goes to show that color choice matters. That natty veneer one on red is ugly.


----------



## narad

A-Branger said:


> the pic you post is the one with a graphic, so it does looks good being only at the flat top. But one thing is a graphic, another is a wood "top"
> 
> see this guitar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> see how much better it looks as it shows the top being a "top", versus the hard cut veneer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not saying these needs to have a full thick top like the old ones, as the angle of the bevels would exaggerate the edge of it (like on a Kiesel). IT only needs a thin top to get away with a nice edge and a good looking guitar



2 things:

1.) The top guitar has that lower horn left uncovered, too. So all that talk of the lower horn bit is not pertinent to this comparison.

2.) Just focusing on the arc line, I think had I seen the blue one first, then the burl, I would find the burl one very awkward. But I've seen that guitar for like a year and now it seems very natural to not have the arc line match up with the end of the figured top. I'm used to it now. But just look at how that burl goes up into the forarm cutaway bit - that just seems clumsy. 

Anyway, annoyed they have these at the ESP crafthouse because I was right outside the other day looking at the entrance thinking, "Nah, pretty sure there's nothing new I want to check out there" and went to BigBoss instead. Probably see how it looks in person this week.


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> Tosin was rocking something almost identical nearly 15 years ago (his TIL 8).



I wish that guy (the illustrated luthier) was still building. He was one of the first guys doing really cool 8 strings, and he stopped building so suddenly.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> I wish that guy (the illustrated luthier) was still building. He was one of the first guys doing really cool 8 strings, and he stopped building so suddenly.



I believe Tosin's guitar wound up having a lot of build issues. The guy who bought it posted on here and he basically had to rebuild the neck because it was so bad. 

Really cool designs though. I remember only a small handful being built. I remember Cataclysm_Child's "EKG" guitar with a really long scale, Tosin's, the double-cut twin to Tosin's, Tiger's, and I think there were one or two others.


----------



## A-Branger

MaxOfMetal said:


> Between those two, the blue looks much better and "cleaner" having the lines of the body create a hard edge for the end of the veneer.
> 
> Which goes to show that color choice matters. That natty veneer one on red is ugly.



yeah at the end of the day its a matter of taste. But I do think a thin top would look heaps better as it would give a nice edge around the bevel, kinda like a JP does. Plus at that price point and quality Im kinda expecting to be a top, even if it is smaller. 

and yup fully agree on that natural/red one is horrible



narad said:


> 2 things:
> 
> 1.) The top guitar has that lower horn left uncovered, too. So all that talk of the lower horn bit is not pertinent to this comparison.



oh I never questioned the lower horn, that bevel design is been there since the first Ibanez prototype, donno why people havent seen it till now


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Hollowway said:


> I wish that guy (the illustrated luthier) was still building. He was one of the first guys doing really cool 8 strings, and he stopped building so suddenly.


Used to talk with TIL regularly, but it's been years now


----------



## cardinal

Well, my worthless opinion is that there should be no figured top at all, and it's a shame that to be considered an upscale guitar in the market, it seems like you have to have some type of figured top.


----------



## asopala

cardinal said:


> Well, my worthless opinion is that there should be no figured top at all, and it's a shame that to be considered an upscale guitar in the market, it seems like you have to have some type of figured top.



Well, it seems to be the thing that's cool now. Most of my guitars have one, but that's just because the production models all came with one. I'm fine with solid colors or transparent over whatever wood they decide to build with, but it's an easy way to raise prices, I guess. And if this forum is of any indication, people really like how they look.


----------



## cardinal

Sorry, to clarify: I wish that there were no figures tops on the Abasi guitars, as I think with all the bevels it's best without them. I tend to avoid figured tops on all guitars generally, but certainly I can't deny that Les Pauls and PRS etc. pull off the figured tops well.


----------



## TheTrve7

View media item 2490


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

DonT WoRRy tHeY’Re JusT GEtTinG reAdy for NAaM


----------



## Thaeon

cardinal said:


> Well, my worthless opinion is that there should be no figured top at all, and it's a shame that to be considered an upscale guitar in the market, it seems like you have to have some type of figured top.



The design doesn't lend itself well to having a top. Looks cooler with the alternating matte/gloss thing that the solid paint guitars.



TheTrve7 said:


> View media item 2490



YIKES.

Doesn't bode well.

EDIT: At some point this is going to start reflecting on other associated businesses/brands.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TheTrve7 said:


> View media item 2490



But the USA models are cheaper. 



Thaeon said:


> EDIT: At some point this is going to start reflecting on other associated businesses/brands.





Tell that to the BRJ shills that have gone on to fame and fortune. 

No one gives a shit.


----------



## cip 123

cardinal said:


> Well, my worthless opinion is that there should be no figured top at all, and it's a shame that to be considered an upscale guitar in the market, it seems like you have to have some type of figured top.


Check out Barlow Guitars and you can have a figured everything


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I’d much rather companies used really good veneers rather than mediocre tops. 

They replied to that guy’s complaint. 



> Rhys,
> 
> We reached out to you early this morning and look forward to discussing your order - please see your e-mail.
> 
> We have been sharing a series of video updates to our customers over the past few months directly from Grover Jackson's shop, and went on to share his personal cell phone for anyone wishing to speak to him directly regarding the latest progress on their builds. Unfortunately, I'm seeing now that because your order wasn't placed through the website, your contact info was not included in the mailing list we used to communicate with customers.
> 
> We’d like to apologize to you for the lapse in communication - that's on us and we should have been quicker to follow up with you. We’ve been consistently attempting to get meaningful updates from Grover, in order to confidently communicate some substantive news to our customers.
> 
> Regarding your deposit, please know that your money has not been and is not in jeopardy. As I mentioned to you in our previous discussion, we are prepared to refund your order in full at any time if you'd like. We've always processed any and all refund requests within 24-48 hours.
> 
> We look forward to hearing from you. Please feel free to e-mail or call my cell that I shared in our Instagram DM's.


----------



## Thaeon

MaxOfMetal said:


> But the USA models are cheaper.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the BRJ shills that have gone on to fame and fortune.
> 
> No one gives a shit.



I think that the people playing the guitars were most likely unaware of mismanagement there. I'm specifically referring to people and projects baring the same name. I have no real skin in this game though since I'm not a fan of AAL and I'm not intersted in the guitars or pedals. Its more of a growing fascination with the unfolding story here.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Thaeon said:


> I think that the people playing the guitars were most likely unaware of mismanagement there. I'm specifically referring to people and projects baring the same name. I have no real skin in this game though since I'm not a fan of AAL and I'm not intersted in the guitars or pedals. Its more of a growing fascination with the unfolding story here.



I'm not talking about players, I'm talking endorsees (who were on the ground, in his shop, and saw the sham in it's entirety) and sales agents bribed with guitars or the promise of such to willfully mislead. Heck Bernie's main guy towards the end got a sweet gig at ESP. 

What I'm saying is, everyone will look the other way as long as it's a more comfortable, easy option. Everyone.


----------



## Thaeon

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm not talking about players, I'm talking endorsees (who were on the ground, in his shop, and saw the sham in it's entirety) and sales agents bribed with guitars or the promise of such to willfully mislead. Heck Bernie's main guy towards the end got a sweet gig at ESP.
> 
> What I'm saying is, everyone will look the other way as long as it's a more comfortable, easy option. Everyone.



I understand what you're saying. And yeah, I agree, that's super shady. There are some people with integrity. Apparently not many in the music industry. But there are a few. I hope that the situation in the current thread with reservations shown by the target market of this particular builder will end well. I don't care for the guitars or the music, but I do share the trepidation of a lot of the community here. I have money tied up in a custom build. As reputable as the builder is, seeing stuff like this doesn't help with trust. I'm sure this sort of thing can be damaging to small builders across the entire industry.


----------



## Fred the Shred

MaxOfMetal said:


> Tell that to the BRJ shills that have gone on to fame and fortune.
> 
> No one gives a shit.



Basically. Shilling for BRJ to the bitter end, encouraging people to get utterly ripped off (which, unsurprisingly, they did), and coming up with nothing but the highest praises are now merrily enjoying zero backlash for their actions. Quite the contrary, there is some noticeable career growth from peeps who were in the know regarding this massive shitstorm and decided to keep quiet as they were being promised guitars should they play along - expecting morality in any industry is a good way to be sorely disappointed.

In the end, I'm probably the idiot, seeing as being all honest and not having a permanent public hard-on regarding THE BEST THING EVAH FOR EVERYONE EVAH appears to be less rewarding than being an utter shill.


----------



## Vyn

Two, I think three of the BRJ artists that were on this very board have gone on to be extremely well-off. Two of those people have forgotten are even associated with the brand, and one of them went and did the same fucking thing with another brand straight after, again with zero repercussions. People don't give a shit if there's another hype train to jump straight onto.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Vyn said:


> Two, I think three of the BRJ artists that were on this very board have gone on to be extremely well-off. Two of those people have forgotten are even associated with the brand, and one of them went and did the same fucking thing with another brand straight after, again with zero repercussions. People don't give a shit if there's another hype train to jump straight onto.


*cough* keith, misha*cough*


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

4000 posts, practically 2 delivered guitars if even...


----------



## Avedas

Thaeon said:


> I understand what you're saying. And yeah, I agree, that's super shady. There are some people with integrity. Apparently not many in the music industry. But there are a few. I hope that the situation in the current thread with reservations shown by the target market of this particular builder will end well. I don't care for the guitars or the music, but I do share the trepidation of a lot of the community here. I have money tied up in a custom build. As reputable as the builder is, seeing stuff like this doesn't help with trust. I'm sure this sort of thing can be damaging to small builders across the entire industry.


Come on down to Tegridy Guitarworks.


----------



## Obsidian Soul

KnightBrolaire said:


> *cough* keith, misha*cough*


Who is the third?

I know Josh Travis seemed to hop on a brand then he jumps off as it goes downhill.


----------



## Paul McAleer

Man I really enjoyed Tosins collab with Ibanez on this guitar. I don’t know why the current headstock design just looks so off for me.


----------



## Dratch

Spoke to Ivan Chopik (Abasi COO) via phone last Thursday. Apparently Grover has been struggling to meet deadlines for a few reasons: shops main focus is Friedman, roasted flamed maple necks delaminating and QC issues. On top of all this, the rate limiting step has been the painting process. Given this information, Abasi has elected to have Grover create alder bodies/hard rock maple necks and have Wilkins paint the guitars. They’re sticking with the 2-tone ‘sportscar’ finish options.

I was given three options for my order:

Full refund
Grover made Larada with alder body and hard rock maple neck. ETA: Feb/March
J Larada with basswood body and wenge neck. ETA: early January
I opted for a J Larada due to the wood options, ETA and the fact that they’ve been seen in the wild. I’m naively optimistic and I hope everybody that ordered one gets a Larada. What’s more, I hope the curse will be lifted from this body shape! 

Back to waiting...


----------



## cip 123

At this rate I might just CNC myself an Abasi...take less time


----------



## KnightBrolaire

At least they're being up front about the issues/delays, that's always appreciated. Nothing pisses me off more than custom builders that can't even respond to an email or answer some questions.


----------



## cardinal

Wilkins doing the paint makes a lot of sense. Lots of shops out-source paint from the get-go.


----------



## ramses

Dratch said:


> I opted for a J Larada due to the wood options, ETA and the fact that they’ve been seen in the wild.



But the J Larada are bolt-on. I was assuming that the set-neck was part of the appeal.


----------



## Vyn

ramses said:


> But the J Larada are bolt-on. I was assuming that the set-neck was part of the appeal.



I thought the appeal was having Abasi on the headstock. It does have an interesting feature set however nothing mind-blowing enough to justify $3k-$4k USD. The name is definitely the draw card here.


----------



## Avedas

The J Larada is certainly the weirdest bolt on I've ever played. That neck joint didn't click with me at all.


----------



## narad

Dratch said:


> Spoke to Ivan Chopik (Abasi COO) via phone last Thursday. Apparently Grover has been struggling to meet deadlines for a few reasons: shops main focus is Friedman, roasted flamed maple necks delaminating and QC issues. On top of all this, the rate limiting step has been the painting process. Given this information, Abasi has elected to have Grover create alder bodies/hard rock maple necks and have Wilkins paint the guitars. They’re sticking with the 2-tone ‘sportscar’ finish options.
> 
> I was given three options for my order:
> 
> Full refund
> Grover made Larada with alder body and hard rock maple neck. ETA: Feb/March
> J Larada with basswood body and wenge neck. ETA: early January
> I opted for a J Larada due to the wood options, ETA and the fact that they’ve been seen in the wild. I’m naively optimistic and I hope everybody that ordered one gets a Larada. What’s more, I hope the curse will be lifted from this body shape!
> 
> Back to waiting...



So are you paying USA pricing for a J-Larada or how will all that play out? Also, sticking with the 2-tone ‘sportscar’ finishes... big mistake, unless those color combos start getting a lot more subtle.


----------



## narad

Because man, this disconnected body looks so cheap to me:


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> Because man, this disconnected body looks so cheap to me:



At first I thought you were joking, but I see what you’re saying. That does look unplanned.


----------



## iamaom

I'm sure a bit of epoxy would fix that right up.


----------



## prlgmnr

Vyn said:


> I thought the appeal was having Abasi on the headstock


Finding the appeal of these has been about as difficult as actually getting hold of a finished one.


----------



## Avedas

There's nothing behind the top part of the neck joint behind that gap either. It's a disconnected edge lined up with another disconnected edge. From the back it just looks like someone forgot to finish cutting the top horn of the guitar.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

And to add to everything...


----------



## Albake21

Jack McGoldrick said:


> And to add to everything...



Came here to post this, completely came out of no where...


----------



## jephjacques

This one is really interesting as it gives you a whole signal chain to play with instead of just an (admittedly good, Neural's stuff sounds great) amp model. Redundant if you already have an amp modeler you like, but I could see myself grabbing this to toss on my laptop for fucking around while I travel.


----------



## narad

Jack McGoldrick said:


> And to add to everything...




I look forward to this plugin and the multiplicity of harmonics / deeper fourth-dimensional existential realities we've come to expect from Abasi Concepts.


----------



## Avedas

jephjacques said:


> This one is really interesting as it gives you a whole signal chain to play with instead of just an (admittedly good, Neural's stuff sounds great) amp model. Redundant if you already have an amp modeler you like, but I could see myself grabbing this to toss on my laptop for fucking around while I travel.


Archetype Plini and Nolly had that as well. I really liked the time effects on the Plini one but I'm not gonna buy a $130 plugin just for that


----------



## Avedas

narad said:


> I look forward to this plugin and the multiplicity of harmonics / deeper fourth-dimensional existential realities we've come to expect from Abasi Concepts.


I haven't watched the video yet. Did he mention "ebb and flow"?


----------



## prlgmnr

Avedas said:


> I haven't watched the video yet. Did he mention "ebb and flow"?


NOW I get what "our vision's detrimental to progression" was meant to mean.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

animalsasleaders said:


> Luckily I don’t need to walk into Grover Jackson shop and attempt to refine his processes.


Old enough to remember this gem.


----------



## cip 123

Screen Shot 2019-11-25 At 16.05.14



__ cip 123
__ Nov 25, 2019
__
cad larada







This was like super easy too, why wait for Abasi?


----------



## Thaeon

Jack McGoldrick said:


> And to add to everything...




I'm probably more inclined to pick this one up since I play 8 string and would want something like this to be tailored to my needs with that for recording demo ideas. However, I think my amp will do just fine for any actual tracks I need to record. I'll wait for a review.


----------



## Thaeon

cip 123 said:


> Screen Shot 2019-11-25 At 16.05.14
> 
> 
> 
> __ cip 123
> __ Nov 25, 2019
> __
> cad larada
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was like super easy too, why wait for Abasi?



I definitely like it better without the headstock...


----------



## Fred the Shred

Surely pinning the issues on Grover's shop will work this time, since it worked flawlessly with Falbo and we have hundreds of these guitars in the hands of happy customers!

R&D and pre-production planning are crucial, and this extends to knowing what the projected output of the shop you're hiring, preferably a conservative estimate, before claiming anything that you will become tied to and reminded of constantly by disgruntled customers. I find the lessons of damage control via the offering of refunds and alternatives to the customers were well learned, so let's hope whatever next iteration takes into account the issues that almost inevitably come with super optimistic estimates of timing and production numbers. One needs to go no further than the J line to see a production run taking shape and coming out without all the complications of delivery date promises, and as such zero problems with dissatisfied customers in that department.


----------



## cip 123

Thaeon said:


> I definitely like it better without the headstock...


It certainly works. I just threw on an 8 string neck from an original design so I could cut a neck pocket.


----------



## cardinal

cip 123 said:


> Screen Shot 2019-11-25 At 16.05.14
> 
> 
> 
> __ cip 123
> __ Nov 25, 2019
> __
> cad larada
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was like super easy too, why wait for Abasi?



Uh oh, forgot the bevel on the lower horn! Maybe that's the source of the curse.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Also realising that winter NAAM is probably going to be focusing on Abasi pedals rather than guitars after watching the video?


----------



## Thaeon

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Also realising that winter NAAM is probably going to be focusing on Abasi pedals rather than guitars after watching the video?



There's more profit in pedals than there is in guitars. If a pedal comes out its easy to push. $2-300 in the pedal market is standard, fairly easy for any buyer to swallow, and they generally don't take much effort to build, and you can outsource to established factories. So the margins are better. It would make a lot of sense for Tosin to focus on a new pedal.


----------



## Fred the Shred

While it is true pushing a pedal is easier than a guitar due to the cost difference (except those mega boutique affairs, that is), market saturation is also more noticeable, along with the standardization of certain pedals causing a myriad of clones, adaptations and modifications of these go-to units to further make things harder to stand out.

Guitars, should the design stand out (and hopefully be appeallng to prospective buyers) can often push a brand's identity in a more obvious way, and given how the marketing is working for Abasi Concepts, there is a clear bet on having functional design as a part of the image the company wishes to project, which is of course harder to convey in a pedal. To be entirely honest, given this whole debacle, Abasi needs to get the guitars front in check ASAP, as it really undermines the public image of the company and forces them to have to do a fair bit of damage control to protect reputation.

I don't know - most stuff that happened here stemmed from things that take time and tweaking of the process to sort lest the ordeal repeats itself until someone decides to throw in the towel, so this is now a complicated state of affairs, with basically this forum alone providing 200 pages worth of "best builder ever / no he's not / drama / we have it guys / best builder ever / no he's not" with very little in the way of the product and happy customers providing feedback. Right now, and this is just my opinion here, it would be a lot better to simply start with an actual fixed spec offering as they seem to be headed towards and mature that process accordingly while having actual deliveries happening often enough to reassure customers. Should things take off, by all means consider an all out custom shop, but do so with a mature, ironed out operation when it comes to the structural and cosmetic features of these guitars, else history risks repeating itself.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

Fred the Shred said:


> While it is true pushing a pedal is easier than a guitar due to the cost difference (except those mega boutique affairs, that is), market saturation is also more noticeable, along with the standardization of certain pedals causing a myriad of clones, adaptations and modifications of these go-to units to further make things harder to stand out.
> 
> Guitars, should the design stand out (and hopefully be appeallng to prospective buyers) can often push a brand's identity in a more obvious way, and given how the marketing is working for Abasi Concepts, there is a clear bet on having functional design as a part of the image the company wishes to project, which is of course harder to convey in a pedal. To be entirely honest, given this whole debacle, Abasi needs to get the guitars front in check ASAP, as it really undermines the public image of the company and forces them to have to do a fair bit of damage control to protect reputation.
> 
> I don't know - most stuff that happened here stemmed from things that take time and tweaking of the process to sort lest the ordeal repeats itself until someone decides to throw in the towel, so this is now a complicated state of affairs, with basically this forum alone providing 200 pages worth of "best builder ever / no he's not / drama / we have it guys / best builder ever / no he's not" with very little in the way of the product and happy customers providing feedback. Right now, and this is just my opinion here, it would be a lot better to simply start with an actual fixed spec offering as they seem to be headed towards and mature that process accordingly while having actual deliveries happening often enough to reassure customers. Should things take off, by all means consider an all out custom shop, but do so with a mature, ironed out operation when it comes to the structural and cosmetic features of these guitars, else history risks repeating itself.


Fred, I think this is a very well thought out and articulate post

you’re right

enough “mystique”

let’s see the goods or STFU (not anyone on SSO, the rumors/updates)

just put out a limited run if you’re that self conscious mr Tosin, it will sell out and you’ll have your feedback and make rev.2

nothing that’s perfect these days is ever accepted as such, even if it is close to it....so it’s long enough , Fred is right ...

(And to echo @Thaeon he 
Might be unfocused from pedals)


----------



## Thaeon

Fred the Shred said:


> While it is true pushing a pedal is easier than a guitar due to the cost difference (except those mega boutique affairs, that is), market saturation is also more noticeable, along with the standardization of certain pedals causing a myriad of clones, adaptations and modifications of these go-to units to further make things harder to stand out.
> 
> Guitars, should the design stand out (and hopefully be appeallng to prospective buyers) can often push a brand's identity in a more obvious way, and given how the marketing is working for Abasi Concepts, there is a clear bet on having functional design as a part of the image the company wishes to project, which is of course harder to convey in a pedal. To be entirely honest, given this whole debacle, Abasi needs to get the guitars front in check ASAP, as it really undermines the public image of the company and forces them to have to do a fair bit of damage control to protect reputation.
> 
> I don't know - most stuff that happened here stemmed from things that take time and tweaking of the process to sort lest the ordeal repeats itself until someone decides to throw in the towel, so this is now a complicated state of affairs, with basically this forum alone providing 200 pages worth of "best builder ever / no he's not / drama / we have it guys / best builder ever / no he's not" with very little in the way of the product and happy customers providing feedback. Right now, and this is just my opinion here, it would be a lot better to simply start with an actual fixed spec offering as they seem to be headed towards and mature that process accordingly while having actual deliveries happening often enough to reassure customers. Should things take off, by all means consider an all out custom shop, but do so with a mature, ironed out operation when it comes to the structural and cosmetic features of these guitars, else history risks repeating itself.



I agree with you 100%. My post was indicating that I understand why a pedal would be put in front of the guitars. Could be that they're run out of revenue to finish the R&D process/iron out production snags/etc., and a quick pedal could provide a sharp intake of funds to finish the production of the guitars. I hear nothing but generally good stuff about the Pathos. However, after seemingly jumping the gun with the guitars, Tosin may be seeing some of the issues that he was being impatient about with Ibanez. All that said, the promise has been out in the world for too long with customers having money tied up in builds for there to be no guitars in the wild. Every day that goes by at this point with no deliveries on orders is affecting the public image of the company.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

I may have asked this in another thread but WHY the emphasis on pedals these days? Like really who cares about pedals when modelers are literally doing everything, I’m just confused at what these pedals are all about? I’m not familiar with this fad, i mean I’m a guitarist, and I feel out of the loop....


----------



## animalsasleader

Hey Guys,

I figured I’d address some of the speculation regarding ABASI Concepts. The long and short of it is that Grover’s shop has been struggling to meet our deadlines. The charitable view on this is that he’s prioritized producing hundreds of guitars for Friedman, his primary contract, and didn’t scale sufficiently to handle our PO’s (he currently has a staff of 3 full-time employees).

Add the fact that ABASI has a custom order business model and you end up with the reality of large purchase orders being placed where no two guitars are the same. We had a sense that this complexity could potentially be an issue, so we let Grover himself determine the number of options we could offer. No “kids in a candy store” vibes, just materials he told us he was comfortable with (that’s the reason we didn’t offer wenge necks, for instance). 

Between guitars already shipped to customers and some that are imminently being completed, we received about a dozen of really high-quality instruments from Grover. Unfortunately, we also rejected about 20 guitars that needed re-work (mostly paint issues) or had mismatched specs. 

Considering the most severe bottleneck was occurring at the paint stage, we’ve elected to job-out paint to Pat Wilkins. We think this new approach will do wonders for lead times and consistency of outcome.

It also means that we’ll be leaving the custom shop model behind and will be switching over to an inventory-based business model. This means we’ll only sell guitars that exist, freeing us from being beholden to quoted lead times. It will also allow us to take our time with any instrument that needs rework, without it creating longer waits for customers.

With regards to USA production with Grover, we have decided to limit the scope of his services to cutting necks and bodies with a simplified range of woods. (Maple, Alder and Richlite, for the time being.)

Some of you have noticed the Japanese-produced bolt-ons. We began this relationship over a year ago and love the work they do. Super clean construction and consistent delivery dates (imagine that!) Concerning criticism of the bolt-on design, I relate to some of the observations, but these builds really are great and neither the playing experience nor aesthetics are impacted.

These things slay! (funnily enough, every Ibanez prototype and LACS I own is a bolt-on because they never intended to release this design as a set neck...) Honestly, I dig both bolt-on and set neck and I actually love that I can get that bolt-on response out of this design if I want.

For customers who haven’t received their guitars, we’ve either already reached out or are in the process of reaching out to offer a USA guitar with the new wood specs and reduced customization. Alternatively, they can switch their order to a J Larada guitar, which as it stands will be shipping at the beginning of January. A full refund is also available to any customer that wants it. 

Anyway, I’d be lying if I said I understood the intricacies of this business when I set out to do this. The truth is, I trusted that agreements would be honored and professionalism maintained. I’ve been a buyer of custom guitars for close to two decades and the thought of being able to design and provide passionate players, especially extended range guys, with a chance to build something unique that they love has become a new passion for me. The past two years of attempting this endeavor has definitely put that passion to the test, but I’m certain the adversity has been informative and strengthening. 

We’re appreciate the ongoing interest. This community is smart and observant, and we intend to give you guys an honest product that stands out amongst a sea of choices. Hopefully some of you will be at NAMM. We’d love for you to try the gear yourselves!


----------



## ThePIGI King

I, who has no horse in the race, appreciate the post. Better late than never.

As for the bolt on design thing you said, I prefer bolt ons, but I usually don't prefer a visible gap between body and neck. You said (and maybe I misunderstood) "neither the playing experience or aesthetics are impacted", yet a gap indicates a mistake, and looks wonky. It's like saying someone never messes up anything critical, but can't make their bed. If you have a gap between body/neck, what else is being messed up or passed as good enough? 

Still, I love the design and hope it flourishes.


----------



## cip 123

animalsasleader said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I figured I’d address some of the speculation regarding ABASI Concepts. The long and short of it is that Grover’s shop has been struggling to meet our deadlines. The charitable view on this is that he’s prioritized producing hundreds of guitars for Friedman, his primary contract, and didn’t scale sufficiently to handle our PO’s (he currently has a staff of 3 full-time employees).
> 
> Add the fact that ABASI has a custom order business model and you end up with the reality of large purchase orders being placed where no two guitars are the same. We had a sense that this complexity could potentially be an issue, so we let Grover himself determine the number of options we could offer. No “kids in a candy store” vibes, just materials he told us he was comfortable with (that’s the reason we didn’t offer wenge necks, for instance).
> 
> Between guitars already shipped to customers and some that are imminently being completed, we received about a dozen of really high-quality instruments from Grover. Unfortunately, we also rejected about 20 guitars that needed re-work (mostly paint issues) or had mismatched specs.
> 
> Considering the most severe bottleneck was occurring at the paint stage, we’ve elected to job-out paint to Pat Wilkins. We think this new approach will do wonders for lead times and consistency of outcome.
> 
> It also means that we’ll be leaving the custom shop model behind and will be switching over to an inventory-based business model. This means we’ll only sell guitars that exist, freeing us from being beholden to quoted lead times. It will also allow us to take our time with any instrument that needs rework, without it creating longer waits for customers.
> 
> With regards to USA production with Grover, we have decided to limit the scope of his services to cutting necks and bodies with a simplified range of woods. (Maple, Alder and Richlite, for the time being.)
> 
> Some of you have noticed the Japanese-produced bolt-ons. We began this relationship over a year ago and love the work they do. Super clean construction and consistent delivery dates (imagine that!) Concerning criticism of the bolt-on design, I relate to some of the observations, but these builds really are great and neither the playing experience nor aesthetics are impacted.
> 
> These things slay! (funnily enough, every Ibanez prototype and LACS I own is a bolt-on because they never intended to release this design as a set neck...) Honestly, I dig both bolt-on and set neck and I actually love that I can get that bolt-on response out of this design if I want.
> 
> For customers who haven’t received their guitars, we’ve either already reached out or are in the process of reaching out to offer a USA guitar with the new wood specs and reduced customization. Alternatively, they can switch their order to a J Larada guitar, which as it stands will be shipping at the beginning of January. A full refund is also available to any customer that wants it.
> 
> Anyway, I’d be lying if I said I understood the intricacies of this business when I set out to do this. The truth is, I trusted that agreements would be honored and professionalism maintained. I’ve been a buyer of custom guitars for close to two decades and the thought of being able to design and provide passionate players, especially extended range guys, with a chance to build something unique that they love has become a new passion for me. The past two years of attempting this endeavor has definitely put that passion to the test, but I’m certain the adversity has been informative and strengthening.
> 
> We’re appreciate the ongoing interest. This community is smart and observant, and we intend to give you guys an honest product that stands out amongst a sea of choices. Hopefully some of you will be at NAMM. We’d love for you to try the gear yourselves!


Forgive me for asking this, you've spent more time with this design than I have and I'm sure there is a reason for this. But to address the observed critiques of the bolt on, the "G A P", why aren't you using a sort of Stephens extended cut away? It would be more efficient in the tooling department as I understand it and would eliminate said gap if I understand correctly.


Pics attached -


----------



## remco mayer

cip 123 said:


> Screen Shot 2019-11-25 At 16.05.14
> 
> 
> 
> __ cip 123
> __ Nov 25, 2019
> __
> cad larada
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was like super easy too, why wait for Abasi?


we can help with the hardware for this guitar http://www.apollomusicparts.com/


----------



## Thaeon

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> I may have asked this in another thread but WHY the emphasis on pedals these days? Like really who cares about pedals when modelers are literally doing everything, I’m just confused at what these pedals are all about? I’m not familiar with this fad, i mean I’m a guitarist, and I feel out of the loop....



Tosin, and other guitar players like myself, still use amps live. I tried the modeler thing for over a year of shows. Never connected with it, and spent more time looking for new sounds than I did playing. Besides, my Diezel does almost everything I want it to do. So I run a small pedalboard with a clean boost, an OD, Delay, and Verb, with a MIDI switcher.

I appreciate the post from Tosin as well. It's good to hear a little of the behind the scenes struggles. It makes for some empathy. Though I think I would have attempted to be a little more transparent about that stuff. Its hard to predict a lot of this stuff. Just being honest about being green in the manufacturing world I think would go a long way towards the trust of at least this community. So many of us have been burned by previous builders that took the non-transparent approach because they had a lot to hide.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

whoa whoa whoa, regular guitars first 


remco mayer said:


> we can help with the hardware for this guitar http://www.apollomusicparts.com/


hey Tosin thanks for the input


animalsasleader said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I figured I’d address some of the speculation regarding ABASI Concepts. The long and short of it is that Grover’s shop has been struggling to meet our deadlines. The charitable view on this is that he’s prioritized producing hundreds of guitars for Friedman, his primary contract, and didn’t scale sufficiently to handle our PO’s (he currently has a staff of 3 full-time employees).
> 
> Add the fact that ABASI has a custom order business model and you end up with the reality of large purchase orders being placed where no two guitars are the same. We had a sense that this complexity could potentially be an issue, so we let Grover himself determine the number of options we could offer. No “kids in a candy store” vibes, just materials he told us he was comfortable with (that’s the reason we didn’t offer wenge necks, for instance).
> 
> Between guitars already shipped to customers and some that are imminently being completed, we received about a dozen of really high-quality instruments from Grover. Unfortunately, we also rejected about 20 guitars that needed re-work (mostly paint issues) or had mismatched specs.
> 
> Considering the most severe bottleneck was occurring at the paint stage, we’ve elected to job-out paint to Pat Wilkins. We think this new approach will do wonders for lead times and consistency of outcome.
> 
> It also means that we’ll be leaving the custom shop model behind and will be switching over to an inventory-based business model. This means we’ll only sell guitars that exist, freeing us from being beholden to quoted lead times. It will also allow us to take our time with any instrument that needs rework, without it creating longer waits for customers.
> 
> With regards to USA production with Grover, we have decided to limit the scope of his services to cutting necks and bodies with a simplified range of woods. (Maple, Alder and Richlite, for the time being.)
> 
> Some of you have noticed the Japanese-produced bolt-ons. We began this relationship over a year ago and love the work they do. Super clean construction and consistent delivery dates (imagine that!) Concerning criticism of the bolt-on design, I relate to some of the observations, but these builds really are great and neither the playing experience nor aesthetics are impacted.
> 
> These things slay! (funnily enough, every Ibanez prototype and LACS I own is a bolt-on because they never intended to release this design as a set neck...) Honestly, I dig both bolt-on and set neck and I actually love that I can get that bolt-on response out of this design if I want.
> 
> For customers who haven’t received their guitars, we’ve either already reached out or are in the process of reaching out to offer a USA guitar with the new wood specs and reduced customization. Alternatively, they can switch their order to a J Larada guitar, which as it stands will be shipping at the beginning of January. A full refund is also available to any customer that wants it.
> 
> Anyway, I’d be lying if I said I understood the intricacies of this business when I set out to do this. The truth is, I trusted that agreements would be honored and professionalism maintained. I’ve been a buyer of custom guitars for close to two decades and the thought of being able to design and provide passionate players, especially extended range guys, with a chance to build something unique that they love has become a new passion for me. The past two years of attempting this endeavor has definitely put that passion to the test, but I’m certain the adversity has been informative and strengthening.
> 
> We’re appreciate the ongoing interest. This community is smart and observant, and we intend to give you guys an honest product that stands out amongst a sea of choices. Hopefully some of you will be at NAMM. We’d love for you to try the gear yourselves!



I love this Mess of a thread


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

animalsasleader said:


> It also means that we’ll be leaving the custom shop model behind and will be switching over to an inventory-based business model. This means we’ll only sell guitars that exist, freeing us from being beholden to quoted lead times. It will also allow us to take our time with any instrument that needs rework, without it creating longer waits for customers.



This is definitely the way to go, honestly. Paint outsourcing also sounds like a great idea, with 4 guys it's no wonder Grover is so busy.
Wishing you guys the best.


----------



## prlgmnr

animalsasleader said:


> This means we’ll only sell guitars that exist



Not sure I can see this catching on.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Oops


----------



## Vyn

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> I may have asked this in another thread but WHY the emphasis on pedals these days? Like really who cares about pedals when modelers are literally doing everything, I’m just confused at what these pedals are all about? I’m not familiar with this fad, i mean I’m a guitarist, and I feel out of the loop....



It's the classic "Build it in bits" approach - a modeller does everything however has a high initial up-front cost where as pedals are significantly (this is on average mind you) cheaper and you can just get the ones you need/want to start with. Especially if you already have an amp that does a sound or two that you particularly like. Yes, pedalboards can easily get more expensive than modellers and can be a pain to assemble however if one pedal fails, just bypass it and you're good to go. If a modeller fails, you're fucked.


----------



## Thaeon

Vyn said:


> It's the classic "Build it in bits" approach - a modeller does everything however has a high initial up-front cost where as pedals are significantly (this is on average mind you) cheaper and you can just get the ones you need/want to start with. Especially if you already have an amp that does a sound or two that you particularly like. Yes, pedalboards can easily get more expensive than modellers and can be a pain to assemble however if one pedal fails, just bypass it and you're good to go. If a modeller fails, you're fucked.



That's actually a great point. It's fairly cheap to have a pedal board power amp as a backup. If you derive a lot of your sounds from pedals, you just can bypass an amp failure and run the one on the board. If you run a modeler and have an issue with it, you need another modeler as a backup. Last I checked that's about $5k of up front investment to make sure you can finish a gig with an equipment failure. If you run a power amp and cab too... That's a lot of money for convenience. Modelers aren't necessarily a cheaper route and create a single point of failure if you don't have something to take their place. If you're a bedroom or studio only player, this is probably not an issue for you.


----------



## Vyn

Thaeon said:


> That's actually a great point. It's fairly cheap to have a pedal board power amp as a backup. If you derive a lot of your sounds from pedals, you just can bypass an amp failure and run the one on the board. If you run a modeler and have an issue with it, you need another modeler as a backup. Last I checked that's about $5k of up front investment to make sure you can finish a gig with an equipment failure. If you run a power amp and cab too... That's a lot of money for convenience. Modelers aren't necessarily a cheaper route and create a single point of failure if you don't have something to take their place. If you're a bedroom or studio only player, this is probably not an issue for you.



My live rig has a EHX 44 Magnum on the board solely for the situation you just described haha. $319AUD vs $2k+AUD for a spare head/rig.


----------



## narad

cip 123 said:


> Forgive me for asking this, you've spent more time with this design than I have and I'm sure there is a reason for this. But to address the observed critiques of the bolt on, the "G A P", why aren't you using a sort of Stephens extended cut away? It would be more efficient in the tooling department as I understand it and would eliminate said gap if I understand correctly.
> 
> 
> Pics attached -



Yea, the S.E.C. is a nice solution to that problem. J-Laradas with that would be an improvement, but the veneer top would have to go over the area usually dedicated to the S.E.C., so it may not be possible (even apart from licensing costs and concerns).


----------



## cip 123

narad said:


> Yea, the S.E.C. is a nice solution to that problem. J-Laradas with that would be an improvement, but the veneer top would have to go over the area usually dedicated to the S.E.C., so it may not be possible (even apart from licensing costs and concerns).



Well it doesn't have to be a Stephens cutaway really. The way I modelled it, that was just the easiest and most efficient way of doing it. It wouldn't have to bolts similar to a Stephens. It was just the easiest way for me to explain it. 

I think, particularly with the way recent legal cases regarding musical instruments have gone, it would be hard to argue the neck joint modelled out IS a stephens cutaway, and more just the nature of design. 

Basically, why is there a gap? When the first and most logical way to model this out solves the problem?


----------



## StevenC

For what it's worth, the Stephen's Extended Cutaway is no longer protected and anyone can use it. Also, the SEC has the bolts away from the playing surface, not under the fretboard at all. The render above is nothing like the SEC really; the Claas bolt on design is much more like the SEC, certainly in concept if not exact execution. The J Larada/Ibanez design is a compromise between the Fodera single cut bolt on design and the possibility for efficient mass production. The render is the full on minimise blockiness but keep the bolts under the fretboard.


----------



## cip 123

StevenC said:


> For what it's worth, the Stephen's Extended Cutaway is no longer protected and anyone can use it. Also, the SEC has the bolts away from the playing surface, not under the fretboard at all. The render above is nothing like the SEC really; the Claas bolt on design is much more like the SEC, certainly in concept if not exact execution. The J Larada/Ibanez design is a compromise between the Fodera single cut bolt on design and the possibility for efficient mass production. The render is the full on minimise blockiness but keep the bolts under the fretboard.


Thanks, it was just the easiest way for my brain to explain haha!

But a neck joint like what you posted seems fine and out of the way. 

For efficiency I can understand why it might be easier for mass production, but I feel like we're moving further and further away from that. And that point was exactly one of the reasons Tosin started this company, so not to compromise on the design.


----------



## cardinal

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> I may have asked this in another thread but WHY the emphasis on pedals these days? Like really who cares about pedals when modelers are literally doing everything, I’m just confused at what these pedals are all about? I’m not familiar with this fad, i mean I’m a guitarist, and I feel out of the loop....



Lots of guys just love pedals. They're a relatively inexpensive way of getting new stuff, and new stuff is fun. 

A super expensive pedal is around $1,000. These days, if you spent that on a guitar or amp, it'd get you something "nice" but not jaw dropping. But a few hundred bucks can get you a rare/cool/vintage pedal that you can easily put into a small box and sell to the next guy.

It's sorta of a hobby in and of itself.


----------



## narad

cardinal said:


> Lots of guys just love pedals. They're a relatively inexpensive way of getting new stuff, and new stuff is fun.
> 
> A super expensive pedal is around $1,000. These days, if you spent that on a guitar or amp, it'd get you something "nice" but not jaw dropping. But a few hundred bucks can get you a rare/cool/vintage pedal that you can easily put into a small box and sell to the next guy.
> 
> It's sorta of a hobby in and of itself.



I think the emphasis is on pedals because you can target a lower income demographic. But I agree with all that -- pedals are fun. I'll debate for a month about buying a $300 playstation VR, but I'll blow $300 on a vintage fuzz I'll never use like it's a reflex.


----------



## Vyn

narad said:


> I think the emphasis is on pedals because you can target a lower income demographic. But I agree with all that -- pedals are fun. I'll debate for a month about buying a $300 playstation VR, but I'll blow $300 on a vintage fuzz I'll never use like it's a reflex.



+1

Nintendo Switch - nah, can't justify it, I won't use it enough
Flavor of the Week Boutique OD/Boost Pedal - Bought, used for 2min, in the pedal draw/on the pedal bookcase as a glorified ornament.


----------



## Avedas

As a dude who uses a modeler, pedals just look cooler. Total pain in the ass managing the board space, power supplies, MIDI switching etc. but collecting pedals is fun. I'm happy I don't do it though.


----------



## Politics of Ecstasy

Cool niche 
There’s a pedal market in if it self


----------



## jwade

narad said:


> Because man, this disconnected body looks so cheap to me:



It’s so weird that they didn’t modify things slightly to address that gap. Look at some of these guitars that have snap-on wings, they don’t even have a gap like this and they’re basically LEGO guitars.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Tosin, how is moving to an inventory based business model going to affect pricing because I still want one but if non custom ones are the same price as custom ones were I’m going to be kind unsure


----------



## cip 123

jwade said:


> It’s so weird that they didn’t modify things slightly to address that gap. Look at some of these guitars that have snap-on wings, they don’t even have a gap like this and they’re basically LEGO guitars.


Yea, i don't understand why, unless there is a very large effect to ergonomics. It works for large companies like ibanez where they cut the necks to go on various bodies. But this is literally 1 model shape.


----------



## Darthphineas

starting at 6:00




definitely an interesting commentary.


----------



## Bdtunn

Darthphineas said:


> starting at 6:00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> definitely an interesting commentary.




They aren’t wrong!!


----------



## StevenC

Darthphineas said:


> starting at 6:00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> definitely an interesting commentary.



That was an incredibly bad take.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

StevenC said:


> That was an incredibly bad take.


A terrible take they’re making points up also feels valid to mention that Tosin ain’t a luthier so why is he gonna he involved in physically aiding manufacturing. It’s not a stupid model look at ormsbys gtr séries made by another company. What we have here is that at a small scale. Don’t like these guys.


----------



## Thaeon

StevenC said:


> That was an incredibly bad take.



I'm not sure I follow. They looked at it very rationally. It does look horrible from a customer perspective, there has been very little transparency, and when asked, most of it comes off as excuses. They are offering refunds. Which is good. Two reputable builders have run into issues turning out a guitar though, and walking back the whole idea of the semi-custom thing. Looks like someone caught over promising and then having to under deliver. Better to do the reverse.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> That was an incredibly bad take.



CliffsNotes for those judging by thumbnails?


----------



## Randy

Darthphineas said:


>




I said it before, that shape is a nightmare to have to mill clean, to spec and consistently. I don't doubt that Grover runs a top notch shop and he has experienced people (and a mountain of experience himself) on full custom, low number and even full production. 

But one of the things that gave me pause was Falbo talking about the stuff that needs to be done by hand (one look at the design and you can see there's at least a few of them), and the first post from Tosin about Grover taking over operations was bragging about the heel being carved by CNC now. The heel in particular coming, at a minimum, after you've carved and mounted the neck and potentially carved the especially curving top. The process for jigging, mounting, carving, mating, rejigging, mounting, recarving etc. on these looks like hell from an operations standpoint.

By comparison, the Friedman guitars can basically be milled top, then bottom for the body, likely a single carve procedure for the neck, and any neck can be mated up with any body at the end of the process. 

Tosin's a cool guy, talented musician, definitely came up with a neat design on these but a big part OF the design process is asking yourself "why isn't anyone else doing this?" and only 1% of the time it's because you're any smarter than them; the other 99% of the time is because they did it and it didn't work. I get Tosin pushes the "make the tool for the musician with no compromises" except this whole damn endeavor has been compromises. 

Just like I said in the Etherial thread, somebody running this like a real business would've written up a list of the most important features necessary to achieve the vision and honor the brand, grade them on how important they are and also on how difficult they are to pull off, and nix the unnecessary stuff to helps streamline the process. Right off the, you could do 100% of the Abasi carve as a neckthru, and cut the whole guitar out in two passes. The set neck adds an extra two or more steps alone.

These are eventually going to be WMI built with bolt on necks and poplar burl veneers before these are officially delivered at any acceptable scale when meanwhile these could've been done much more practically in either of the other shops they've passed through already. Or do like Daemoness, quote $5k and 5 years and at least have a practical chance of delivering on your promise. This stuff about the design and the pricetag and the delivery being important means fuck all if you miss the mark on all three anyway.


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> CliffsNotes for those judging by thumbnails?



They said the failures are because Tosin is a bad and inexperienced businessman, and that he's quick to blame everyone else. They were suspect of the excuses when it was Falbo being thrown under the bus, but they call 100% bullshit on him blaming Grover because he has as much experience/reputation as he does, along with delivering the Friedmans in consistent time and consistent quality.


----------



## Thaeon

Jack McGoldrick said:


> A terrible take they’re making points up also feels valid to mention that Tosin ain’t a luthier so why is he gonna he involved in physically aiding manufacturing. It’s not a stupid model look at ormsbys gtr séries made by another company. What we have here is that at a small scale. Don’t like these guys.



From a manufacturing standpoint, you're correct. Schecter, Ibanez, ESP, PRS, Chapman, Solar, Strandberg all outsource designs to other factories. A lot of those guitars are built in the same factories. Apple does this with Tech. In this way, you have a Design Firm outsourcing the construction of a design to a factory (separate business entity) that tools up a factory to build said designs. However, in ALL of these cases, there are no custom options. Design Firm buys out right, or presells X number of units with perdetermined specs. Guitars a made in batches, and then shipped. In all cases but Chapman and Solar, These companies established their name and business as a builder first before starting to outsource. Chapman at the very least had the association and backing of Anderton's to market the guitar if not financial partnership as well. Rob was on the sales and business side of the music industry long before he was a youtube personality. Ola had sold his own signature guitars for years successfully before opening his business. How did he do it? He spec'd them himself. Set the options. And you bought what was available. Tosin I think was trying to pull in a little of the Kiesel/Carvin thing. But he doesn't have the business experience. I think that a lot of this can be laid at the feet of impatience.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> CliffsNotes for those judging by thumbnails?


There first dumb bit was "nice to see your guitar business is going so well you've got all this time to be making new products", relating to the Neural DSP thing.

Angry people in this thread aren't raging against the most recent Tosin post. The relevant part of the video is basically a dissection of the post in this thread.
"Grover Jackson doesn't know how to build guitars now, remember when it was Frank Falbo." Not really what was said in the thread.
Wondering why they went into business with Grover knowing they weren't the primary contract, including misunderstanding the post as "bitching someone else is getting priority".
Speculating that Friedman guitars don't sell better than Abasi, which honestly seems doubtful, and blind ignorance to the existence of the Friedman guitars brand.
Calling Tosin stupid for being surprised his custom guitar business has non identical orders, which isn't what was in the comment.
"You know what to expect as the parameters" then later ripping Abasi for limiting those parameters based on what Grover suggested: "Not Abasi guitars, Grover Jackson guitars".
Angry that they've rejected guitars with mismatched specs and paint issues.
Not mentioning that Tosin has consistently offered refunds at every turn, but highlighting taking thousands of dollars every chance they get.
Angry that Abasi doesn't have their own factory like Suhr "go buy an Ormsby".
Just not super high on looking at the thing rationally. Maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but with Abasi it seems that when something has gone wrong the first words out of their mouths have been "full refund". Whereas these guys seem to just be getting a kick out of a complicated business having some hiccups getting off the ground.

Not that the design isn't cursed, just that of all the takes I didn't find this at all insightful. Like Randy's post is well thought out.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

My curiosity is piqued by the question of whether Tosin will still be a sufficient draw by the time the guitars are actually ready for mass consumption?

It’s not a slight on him, more a question regarding the speed at which the music industry moves in comparison to how slowly the space whale seems to swim. There’s a 202 page thread here, but it started 4 years ago and it’s relatively the same bunch of guys posting... will there still be a demand in another 2 or 3 years?


----------



## Vyn

Darthphineas said:


> starting at 6:00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> definitely an interesting commentary.




I'm usually pretty open minded however that podcast can fucking end itself, have never managed to get into it. Just a pair of overly entitled dudes shitting on absolutely everything that happens to be flavour of the month. There's being honest and critical, then there's just being sensationalist wankers, although will concede ground that they aren't the only ones doing it.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Levi is just as bad as Jared Dines in my opinion, uses Facebook Guitar groups and forums like ours to fuel his drama centric/click bait videos and podcasts. His skill in tabbing and transcribing music is great, but he's using his platform to give himself a position to comment on rotating talking points all while shilling Ormsby because they probably hooked him up.

I can see why he does it though, his channel is weirdly pulling low numbers for his subscriber count and rate of uploads. Controversy brings the numbers because his only major videos (5k views and up) have been about Gibson Meme controversy/and of course the fake guitar playing one he just uploaded which actually hit 100k which is impressive. But pretty sad considering everything else throughout 2019 stagnated at the 1 - 3k mark.

I remember when the Joey Sturgis controversy happened and he gave the customer who got DMCA'd by Sturgis crap for trying to resolve the situation without throwing Joey under the bus and naming him. Levi should stick to transcription and stop giving misinformed takes, everytime I tune into one of his podcast videos while I'm at work trying to find something to listen I just find him more and more unlikable.

The best thing he could have done was present all of the details transparently, the audience can make their own judgements on the situation.


----------



## narad

_MonSTeR_ said:


> My curiosity is piqued by the question of whether Tosin will still be a sufficient draw by the time the guitars are actually ready for mass consumption?



It'll be like how these days we rarely buy Les Pauls for any association with the man. "Grandpa, tell us the story about the man that did thumb slapping on the eight string!"


----------



## ThePIGI King

narad said:


> It'll be like how these days we rarely buy Les Pauls for any association with the man. "Grandpa, tell us the story about the man that did thumb slapping on the eight string!"


Only thanks to internet technologies, children of the future won't have to ask ol' ramblin' grandpa about stories! And grandpa can get back to yelling at cars and clouds.


----------



## narad

ThePIGI King said:


> Only thanks to internet technologies, children of the future won't have to ask ol' ramblin' grandpa about stories! And grandpa can get back to yelling at cars and clouds.



By the time the Abasi guitars are release there will be only one cloud, as in the great war we blotted out the sun in an attempt to cut the machines off from their power supply.


----------



## Vyn

Jonathan20022 said:


> Levi is just as bad as Jared Dines in my opinion, uses Facebook Guitar groups and forums like ours to fuel his drama centric/click bait videos and podcasts. His skill in tabbing and transcribing music is great, but he's using his platform to give himself a position to comment on rotating talking points all while shilling Ormsby because they probably hooked him up.
> 
> I can see why he does it though, his channel is weirdly pulling low numbers for his subscriber count and rate of uploads. Controversy brings the numbers because his only major videos (5k views and up) have been about Gibson Meme controversy/and of course the fake guitar playing one he just uploaded which actually hit 100k which is impressive. But pretty sad considering everything else throughout 2019 stagnated at the 1 - 3k mark.
> 
> I remember when the Joey Sturgis controversy happened and he gave the customer who got DMCA'd by Sturgis crap for trying to resolve the situation without throwing Joey under the bus and naming him. Levi should stick to transcription and stop giving misinformed takes, everytime I tune into one of his podcast videos while I'm at work trying to find something to listen I just find him more and more unlikable.
> 
> The best thing he could have done was present all of the details transparently, the audience can make their own judgements on the situation.



I find Jared less offensive actually because he knows he's creating dumb content and doesn't try to market it as anything else. Levi on the other hand comes off as a pompous bellend - Attempting to be some sort of authoritative commentator however all he's doing is throwing petrol on whatever internet-shitstorm fire that comes up.


----------



## AltecGreen

Looks like Tosin went back to Japan after the Generation Axe concert in China to promote the Larada. He showed up at Miyaji to put on a demo.


narad said:


> By the time the Abasi guitars are release there will be only one cloud, as in the great war we blotted out the sun in an attempt to cut the machines off from their power supply.



I take it you are not going to this event then. 

https://miyaji.co.jp/gakki/abasi_20191207.php


----------



## narad

AltecGreen said:


> Looks like Tosin went back to Japan after the Generation Axe concert in China to promote the Larada. He showed up at Miyaji to put on a demo.
> 
> 
> I take it you are not going to this event then.
> 
> https://miyaji.co.jp/gakki/abasi_20191207.php



Hmmm.... thanks for the heads-up. I may not but my friend will definitely go.


----------



## Solodini

ThePIGI King said:


> Only thanks to internet technologies, children of the future won't have to ask ol' ramblin' grandpa about stories! And grandpa can get back to yelling at cars and clouds.



If my experience of working in a school is anything to go by, kids aren't good at searching for things. Unless there's shared consciousness they'll just be stuck with the knowledge which is immediately present.


----------



## thesnowdog

StevenC said:


> There first dumb bit was "nice to see your guitar business is going so well you've got all this time to be making new products", relating to the Neural DSP thing.



This may be a bit silly but was in reference, perhaps not explicitly stated, to a previous episode of their podcast where they were talking about a customer who complained he'd been chasing Abasi guitars for an update for months with no luck across multiple platforms.


----------



## StevenC

thesnowdog said:


> This may be a bit silly but was in reference, perhaps not explicitly stated, to a previous episode of their podcast where they were talking about a customer who complained he'd been chasing Abasi guitars for an update for months with no luck across multiple platforms.


That's fair and I can't condone that sort of thing; however I'm pretty sure anything Tosin is making money with right now will be funding development of Abasi, either to get the work done or cover things like refunds.

It's just such an uncomplicated surface look at every word.


----------



## Thaeon

Regardless of whether they guy's needlessly pissing on a hornet's nest, he does have some valid points. I've only been exposed to him through the fakery video and this one. So I have little to go on as far as his observable character. What I HAVE seen is poor planning on the part of a guitar company and stated impatience early in the company's inception. Tosin said it himself. Ibanez wanted to make the guitar, and Tosin didn't want to wait for them to retool and set up production lines to have his guitar out. So he decided to do it himself. I think he's encountering the same issue. A retool and production strategy to mass produce a completely new design takes some time and money. The people partnering with him on this are GOING to continue to produce guitars for the other companies they do manufacturing for in the mean time. The have their designs already in place and its a lot less time and money to set up a run of guitars that are designed to be mass produced. Fender style guitars like the Friedman line, simply take less time and command a similar price. Its more money in Grover's pocket per guitar made. The refunds are the right thing to do. I'd hate to see Tosin's project fail. Its an innovative design, but I think that there need to be more realistic expectations. Charge more for a semi-custom and quote realistic times, or stick to the mass produced ones (not to be read as lower quality). I think that once we see him get the initial orders out of the way and some guitars into shops, things will smooth out. My point is that as soon as there were issues, there should have been a public statement on social media and the website. Some of the statement here does sound like there's shade being throw though. Which is likely to cause issues down the road.


----------



## BigViolin

It’s all fun and games until Ibanez drops the La Radia at NAMM and says sorry dude, took too long, ours now, sue us.


----------



## jephjacques

Ibanez can't seem to make AZs fast enough, they probably don't give a rat's ass about Abasi's design anymore


----------



## I play music

jephjacques said:


> Ibanez can't seem to make AZs fast enough, they probably don't give a rat's ass about Abasi's design anymore


Also why would they use Abasi's design when they can do it better themselves...


----------



## LordCashew

I play music said:


> Also why would they use Abasi's design when they can do it better themselves...



Uh... what is this pray tell?


----------



## LordHar

New headless bass model, as far as I know will be released in 5 & 6 string variations and with both fanned or straight frets.

https://www.instagram.com/benjamin.shepherd.bass/


----------



## bostjan

I play music said:


> Also why would they use Abasi's design when they can do it better themselves...


Mmm. I've never owned a headless bass, but if that's 37" or more on the bass side... I'll have to bite


----------



## Thaeon

I play music said:


> Also why would they use Abasi's design when they can do it better themselves...



Oh GAS, how I despise thee.


----------



## Pietjepieter

Was travelling for a while, so did not look to much to the from, but nothing seems to be changed.
Nice the japanese one, but don't like the bold on neck construction. always loved the set necks on the USA builds, but still it seems to not go very well. No surprises so-far. But i still want one
I was hoping for some good news in this threat!

And damn that ibbie headless bass is freaking sexy, i even do not play bass but I want one!!


----------



## cip 123

https://www.instagram.com/p/B59RWgcDeMC/?igshid=x63l7sqewuib

Looks like they fixed the neck joint somewhat in the bolt ons!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cip 123 said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/B59RWgcDeMC/?igshid=x63l7sqewuib
> 
> Looks like they fixed the neck joint somewhat in the bolt ons!



These are US production, not Japanese, so they probably tweaked the design while tooling up.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Anyone aware if the guitars with paint flaws will be sold as b-stock? I’d grab one at a reduced price if that was all that was wrong...


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Anyone aware if the guitars with paint flaws will be sold as b-stock? I’d grab one at a reduced price if that was all that was wrong...


Presumably the guitars they reject with paint flaws would be refinished.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> Presumably the guitars they reject with paint flaws would be refinished.



Or just sent out because fuck it.


----------



## I play music

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Anyone aware if the guitars with paint flaws will be sold as b-stock? I’d grab one at a reduced price if that was all that was wrong...





MaxOfMetal said:


> Or just sent out because fuck it.


Or maybe the honour to have a low serial number costs extra


----------



## cardinal

cip 123 said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/B59RWgcDeMC/?igshid=x63l7sqewuib
> 
> Looks like they fixed the neck joint somewhat in the bolt ons!



Floyd Rose baby! Doesn't look like an 8, but still encouraging to see.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

This look nice tbf I saw a pink one too somewhere https://www.instagram.com/p/B6JI4xIDkUE/?igshid=8lirjphpw726


----------



## Soya

I wonder if Tosin is peeved he can do a black hand OK sign but still has to deal with white face emojis.


----------



## jephjacques

Jack McGoldrick said:


> This look nice tbf I saw a pink one too somewhere https://www.instagram.com/p/B6JI4xIDkUE/?igshid=8lirjphpw726



man, they look so much nicer in solid colors


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Gotta day I’m pretty bummed that they couldn’t get the roasted flame maple together, I have a sage color build coming and I decided on that color because it would pop with that gorgeous neck and figuring. All the same, I’m betting it’ll have a classy vibe anyway. But dammit.


----------



## StevenC

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6J8VJdp0pH/

Also Javier did a with the Neural DSP Abasi that had a pink 8 string in the background that I'm in love with.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Honestly more excited for the eventual javier Fishman sig set.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Tosin’s instagram has a lot of six strings and the shell pink look great


----------



## Demiurge

^Ooh, will any paying customers of the non-influencer persuasion be sharing in this bounty?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Demiurge said:


> ^Ooh, will any paying customers of the non-influencer persuasion be sharing in this bounty?


I wish, start a go fund me and we’ll buy one guitar and share it


----------



## Hollowway

So can we just go on and order now? Like, everything is up and going, or what? The price is great, but I’m super skeptical of the 10-12 week build time. Not sure that I want to buy one right now - just curious.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Fuck off


----------



## kyleganger

spudmunkey said:


>



Aren't there still people who paid for customs who haven't gotten replies to emails?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

kyleganger said:


> Aren't there still people who paid for customs who haven't gotten replies to emails?



yeah but influencers memes and exposure


----------



## Lemonbaby

Hollowway said:


> So can we just go on and order now? Like, everything is up and going, or what?


----------



## kyleganger

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> yeah but influencers memes and exposure


I'm sure his fan base of 12 year olds are reaching for their mom's credit cards as we speak hahah.


----------



## spudmunkey

I mean...do we know he didn't have an order in ages ago? I honestly didn't listen to the video, or even watch the whole thing.


----------



## Frostbite

spudmunkey said:


> I mean...do we know he didnt have an order in ages ago? I honestly didnt listen to the video, ir even watch the whole thung.


he said he paid money for it. But let's circle jerk. Meme man bad!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

spudmunkey said:


> I mean...do we know he didnt have an order in ages ago? I honestly didnt listen to the video, ir even watch the whole thung.



Tried to watch the video and he didn't bring anything up about it. If he did wait, he probably didn't want to seem like an ass bringing up the long wait-time.


----------



## animalsasleader

kyleganger said:


> Aren't there still people who paid for customs who haven't gotten replies to emails?



Every customer who placed an order has received a response. Every customer who wanted to opt out of waiting has received a full refund. Jared was one of our first paying customers and we’re really stoked with how his guitar came out.


----------



## animalsasleader

Hey guys. I wanted to show some of the 6 strings that are going out. We’re really happy with the quality and consistency of Pat’s work. It feels fantastic to have expectations exceed and even better to see these things go out into the wild!


----------



## iamaom

So many pastel colors it feels like easter came early.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6Wj1vqHdFg/?igshid=nq2zg9lqwlnh

Tosin plz be more active here they look great, any six strings fitted yet?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Has there been any announcement as to when 8-string models will become available for order and when a 7-string model will be produced?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Has there been any announcement as to when 8-string models will become available for order and when a 7-string model will be produced?


When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

KnightBrolaire said:


> When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves.



So I should order a seven string seven moons after the birth of the seventh son?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> So seven moons after the birth of the seventh son?


“Time passes on my own. Empires crumble and glaciers dissolve, stars die and oceans melt, out on the dusty planes of mother earth, hot bursts of young love gift the miracle of life; children are born, raised, stricken infirm and die of old age.”


----------



## bostjan

I think he's saying that you are more likely to fit a camel through the eye of a needle than to get your hands on one of the requested guitars.


----------



## Seabeast2000

When the albatross falls, into the sea.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

I rather enjoy the cat build. I'd have personally liked the cat graphic to go to the end of the guitar, the same way that I'm not a fan of the figured tops and where they cut off, but it looks nice anyway.


----------



## Ziricote

How long it takes to get one of these if buyer wish to buy this today?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Ziricote said:


> How long it takes to get one of these if buyer wish to buy this today?


Changing to an inventory based model so no clue when that’ll be up


----------



## animalsasleader

Jack McGoldrick said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/B6Wj1vqHdFg/?igshid=nq2zg9lqwlnh
> 
> Tosin plz be more active here they look great, any six strings fitted yet?



Thanks. I’m going to be a bit more active here for sure. The necks are getting fitted to the bodies starting Monday and then they’re into final assembly ( pickups, hardware, set up, etc.)


----------



## animalsasleader

Señor Voorhees said:


> I rather enjoy the cat build. I'd have personally liked the cat graphic to go to the end of the guitar, the same way that I'm not a fan of the figured tops and where they cut off, but it looks nice anyway.


Glad you dig the “Meowrada” We work with a digital printer for the graphic stuff. Unfortunately the image can only be applied to the flat surfaces of the guitar which means all of the images will be centered like the cats are. I’m really looking forward experimenting more seriously with this design feature. I think there’s a lot of potential for cool things to happen. I’m thinking less identifiable images and more abstract textures/patterns etc.


----------



## animalsasleader

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Has there been any announcement as to when 8-string models will become available for order and when a 7-string model will be produced?


We a actually have completed Japanese J Larada 7 & 8 shipping early January. The US Larada 6 w/ trems above are shipping Jan. US Larada 8 shipping March/April.


----------



## Opion

Fuck yeah Tosin! Looking good!


----------



## Señor Voorhees

animalsasleader said:


> Glad you dig the “Meowrada” We work with a digital printer for the graphic stuff. Unfortunately the image can only be applied to the flat surfaces of the guitar which means all of the images will be centered like the cats are. I’m really looking forward experimenting more seriously with this design feature. I think there’s a lot of potential for cool things to happen. I’m thinking less identifiable images and more abstract textures/patterns etc.



I mean, it's not huge biggie. If I could afford one right now, you better believe I'd get a custom graphic on it. I have vinyl "skins" on a few of my other guitars. Makes it harder to sell them when you're trying to make a quick buck to buy a whim guitar. I think it's great that it's even an option to get graphics on them... Can you get custom images, or are there only pre-selected images?


----------



## srrdude

Yo Tosin. Cool to see these getting closer to seeing the light. Not a lot of options in the space so I'm really hoping these become available but I have a question/criticism. 

Why does the 6 look so much more elegant than the 8? That angle on the upper bout of the 6 flows so well with the rest of the body while the 8 seems a bit off. It's just much more bulbous than the rest of the body. 

Also what is the final scale length on these 8s? Is it still 25.5-27? Any chance there is gonna be a strandberg scale? 

And one more, at some point way back there was a headless version, has that been scrapped or can we expect that at some point?


----------



## AxeHappy

Cat Guitar has totally won me over again. 

I was all ready to be pissy about fancy youtube boi getting a guitar before other people (although, Tosin has confirmed that that would have been an erroneous opinion) but then I saw the kitties.

I want a kitty guitar.


----------



## animalsasleader

Señor Voorhees said:


> I mean, it's not huge biggie. If I could afford one right now, you better believe I'd get a custom graphic on it. I have vinyl "skins" on a few of my other guitars. Makes it harder to sell them when you're trying to make a quick buck to buy a whim guitar. I think it's great that it's even an option to get graphics on them... Can you get custom images, or are there only pre-selected images?


For now we’re doing pre-selected images. But maybe in the future we could offer custom graphics. Seems like it’d be a cool way to personalize a build.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

animalsasleader said:


> We a actually have completed Japanese J Larada 7 & 8 shipping early January. The US Larada 6 w/ trems above are shipping Jan. US Larada 8 shipping March/April.
> View attachment 75719
> View attachment 75720
> View attachment 75721



Thanks a lot for the quick update. Does this mean new orders could be made on the US website sometime in early 2020 or are the guitars you mention for pre-existing orders?

In any case, it’s great to see production is going well. Congrats!


----------



## StevenC

Tosin, is there any stock coming to Europe any time soon, or do I have to order through you guys and have it shipped here?


----------



## Thaeon

Even though I'm not a huge fan of the design, I love that something well produced at some scale in the US is being done with a multiscale. Its been really important in modern guitar design. Seeing this get off the ground and shipping I think will be good for the industry. Some will love them. Others will hate them. Either way, people are going to talk about them.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Thaeon said:


> Even though I'm not a huge fan of the design, I love that something well produced at some scale in the US is being done with a multiscale. Its been really important in modern guitar design. Seeing this get off the ground and shipping I think will be good for the industry. Some will love them. Others will hate them. Either way, people are going to talk about them.



reads your comment.
looks at stack of straight scale sixes tosin posted
scratches head.


----------



## Thaeon

diagrammatiks said:


> reads your comment.
> looks at stack of straight scale sixes tosin posted
> scratches head.



The multiscales are out there. As is evidenced by Mr. Dine's Mrow Stick. The little produced Ibanez multiscales show up one at a time in big box stores like GC, and are made in Indonesia. They also feel like they were made in Indonesia. Several Wall Hangers in a nice guitar shop with obvious multiscale and standard scale options will draw attention. People will try them. Its a better situation than the Kiesel buy, wait, try thing. Its right there and doesn't require commitment. There's a shop here in town that picked up Ormsby last year. I'd be surprised if I don't see some Laradas in there by late 2020, unless Tosin wants to keep it direct to customer.


----------



## jephjacques

Maybe I’ll order a hot pink one in 2020


----------



## animalsasleader

StevenC said:


> Tosin, is there any stock coming to Europe any time soon, or do I have to order through you guys and have it shipped here?



Currently we have no European distributors but we have spoken with the usual suspects. We’re going to figure out the best situation for us at NAMM. For now, we ship worldwide.


----------



## animalsasleader

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Thanks a lot for the quick update. Does this mean new orders could be made on the US website sometime in early 2020 or are the guitars you mention for pre-existing orders?
> 
> In any case, it’s great to see production is going well. Congrats!



Thanks. Almost all of the 8 strings arriving from Japan are spoken for but we will have quite a few seven strings for sale.


----------



## spudmunkey

diagrammatiks said:


> reads your comment.
> looks at stack of straight scale sixes tosin posted
> scratches head.



I mean....scroll just a little further on that same page, and you'll see several photos of multiscale in-progress guitars.


----------



## Hollowway

jephjacques said:


> Maybe I’ll order a hot pink one in 2020


You and me both!


----------



## jephjacques

Hollowway said:


> You and me both!



hell yeah #pinkcrew


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

jephjacques said:


> Maybe I’ll order a hot pink one in 2020



The world needs more '80s Glam finishes.

Just need one with holoflash, crackle, and an ugly pattern graphic. Oh and tigerstripe or zebrastripe.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The world needs more '80s Glam finishes.
> 
> Just need one with holoflash, crackle, and an ugly pattern graphic.


I would kill a man for an RG550 inspired build in road flare red or a slime tiger build.


----------



## Thaeon

KnightBrolaire said:


> I would kill a man for an RG550 inspired build in road flare red or a slime tiger build.



I feel that way about the old Dime Slime finish. Not a huge fan of MLs, but MY GOD that finish...


----------



## Dayn

Unf, the solid colours that are coming out now are insane. I just want to take a bit bite out of that pink one. God it looks tasty.


----------



## kyleganger

Frostbite said:


> he said he paid money for it. But let's circle jerk. Meme man bad!


Kill all mememen


----------



## jephjacques

guitar youtubers are only one step above video game youtubers in terms of obnoxiousness


----------



## glassmoon0fo

jephjacques said:


> guitar youtubers are only one step above video game youtubers in terms of obnoxiousness


Yeah but ever heard of sevenstring.org?


----------



## Thaeon

Dayn said:


> Unf, the solid colours that are coming out now are insane. I just want to take a bit bite out of that pink one. God it looks tasty.



I may not like the body shapes, but I do almost want to put something the color of one of them in my coffee...


----------



## jephjacques

glassmoon0fo said:


> Yeah but ever heard of sevenstring.org?



what's that, sounds like some nerd bullshit


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> what's that, sounds like some nerd bullshit



Homeboy, you have no idea.


----------



## Pwntus

Laradas are looking great to me! 
Not sure where to ask this but does anyone know how much an 8 actually costs at the end? 
It states they start at * $2,399.00 USD*, do they generally end up around that price or does the custom options add a lot on top of it in terms of price? Just so there is some ballpark to go on when planning a purchase.

Looking forward to get a chance to order one!


----------



## GuitarBizarre

Starts at never means "Usually is". It always means "This is the lowest amount of money you can get one of these for, period"

For that money you're talking the absolute base model.


----------



## Pwntus

Yeah I was suspecting that, but its hard to tell from the custom configurator on the site what the absolute base model actually is, and if things like black or chrome hardware has a price difference.
Aristides custom config site is pretty good at ballparking the custom cost and what their baseline model costs as a comparison.
Would be interesting to hear from anyone here who has ordered one with some custom specs and what it ended up costing!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Pwntus said:


> Yeah I was suspecting that, but its hard to tell from the custom configurator on the site what the absolute base model actually is, and if things like black or chrome hardware has a price difference.
> Aristides custom config site is pretty good at ballparking the custom cost and what their baseline model costs as a comparison.
> Would be interesting to hear from anyone here who has ordered one with some custom specs and what it ended up costing!



It's usually a good idea to communicate with a prospective builder as how they handle communications is an important aspect. If they ignore you or are unhelpful prior to giving them money it doesn't necessarily bode well for when they have it. 

Ask Abasi Gui...Concepts about specs and pricing. These things aren't always set in stone. What one person pays isn't always what another does, especially when ordered far apart.


----------



## Pwntus

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's usually a good idea to communicate with a prospective builder as how they handle communications is an important aspect. If they ignore you or are unhelpful prior to giving them money it doesn't necessarily bode well for when they have it.
> 
> Ask Abasi Gui...Concepts about specs and pricing. These things aren't always set in stone. What one person pays isn't always what another does, especially when ordered far apart.



That sounds like a very reasonable approach! It would be my first custom ordered guitar if i ever managed to snag one so good thing to keep in mind. Thanks for the tip!


----------



## srrdude

Pwntus said:


> That sounds like a very reasonable approach! It would be my first custom ordered guitar if i ever managed to snag one so good thing to keep in mind. Thanks for the tip!




Well, no, they are doing inventory based ordering now. No more customs.


----------



## Hollowway

Pwntus said:


> That sounds like a very reasonable approach! It would be my first custom ordered guitar if i ever managed to snag one so good thing to keep in mind. Thanks for the tip!


Well, if this is your first custom, make sure you actually need those custom options. In this market there’s no guarantee that buying a guitar will result in you getting a guitar. Nothing against Tosin, but any of these little shops are one fire, health issue, emergency, etc away from shutting down and not refunding money. I’d say if you can get one that meets your needs, and not have it customized to the point of it taking a long time, then go for that. Keep it within the PayPal/CC guarantee window. Again, not saying this about Abasi, just customs in general.


----------



## MrWulf

https://www.musicgoround.com/produc...and-wilkinson-larada-8-electric-guitars-green

So, anyone wants to take on this Larada?


----------



## TGN

Wilkinson?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

MrWulf said:


> https://www.musicgoround.com/produc...and-wilkinson-larada-8-electric-guitars-green
> 
> So, anyone wants to take on this Larada?



There are probably still more Chibanez Larada than real ones. Though they did have like three or four years head start.


----------



## Pwntus

Hollowway said:


> Well, if this is your first custom, make sure you actually need those custom options. In this market there’s no guarantee that buying a guitar will result in you getting a guitar. Nothing against Tosin, but any of these little shops are one fire, health issue, emergency, etc away from shutting down and not refunding money. I’d say if you can get one that meets your needs, and not have it customized to the point of it taking a long time, then go for that. Keep it within the PayPal/CC guarantee window. Again, not saying this about Abasi, just customs in general.



Good points! Will definitely keep that in mind.
In terms of "custom" i was thinking of just keeping it to whats on their online custom configurator, so nothing over the top or outside their "officially" stated scope. 
Hopefully the company has gotten the production process down after the first batch is fully delivered and ordering one on the second run would be more streamlined. 
I got 3 Solars (great guitars from my experience btw), which i ordered my first one a period after them just having started the company to the last one earlier this fall and it was very reliable with their distribution firmly sorted.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Pwntus said:


> Good points! Will definitely keep that in mind.
> In terms of "custom" i was thinking of just keeping it to whats on their online custom configurator, so nothing over the top or outside their "officially" stated scope.
> Hopefully the company has gotten the production process down after the first batch is fully delivered and ordering one on the second run would be more streamlined.
> I got 3 Solars (great guitars from my experience btw), which i ordered my first one a period after them just having started the company to the last one earlier this fall and it was very reliable with their distribution firmly sorted.



That's sort of an apples to carburetor comparison. 

Not to diminish Ola or Solar as a whole's work, but they contracted with an established guitar OEM, not a small builder (or a handful in this case). It might not seem like a huge difference at first blush, but it genuinely is. 

I think you should do some more research on what exactly you're looking to get yourself into. Not just Abasi specifically, but custom instruments from smaller builders in general. It'll save a lot of heartburn down the line.


----------



## Pwntus

Ill definitely be waiting for some reviews before i commit to anything and checking out some other stuff too, hopefully there are some unbiased ones for the laradas coming out soon once they ship their first batch!


----------



## Hollowway

Pwntus said:


> Ill definitely be waiting for some reviews before i commit to anything and checking out some other stuff too, hopefully there are some unbiased ones for the laradas coming out soon once they ship their first batch!


Yeah, I think it would be cool if they did the in-stock thing. Frankly, I wish more people did it. I understand that they won’t, but I’m so scared to order a custom anymore that I think it’s the only way I’ll ever own own.


----------



## animalsasleader

Took a visit to Grover’s shop and things are looking great! Switching to uniform specs really was the perfect solution delays and it looks like we’re right on schedule (dare I say slightly ahead?!) These will head to paint next week.


----------



## prlgmnr

When will we be able to see a finished guitar, sir?


----------



## animalsasleader

prlgmnr said:


> When will we be able to see a finished guitar, sir?


We have a bunch of them up on our Instagram. @abasiconcpets


----------



## srrdude

animalsasleader said:


> View attachment 76157
> View attachment 76155
> View attachment 76154
> View attachment 76152
> View attachment 76156
> Took a visit to Grover’s shop and things are looking great! Switching to uniform specs really was the perfect solution delays and it looks like we’re right on schedule (dare I say slightly ahead?!) These will head to paint next week.


So what are the final specs on these?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

EDIT DELETE


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

animalsasleader said:


> Switching to uniform specs really was the perfect solution delays and it looks like we’re right on schedule (dare I say slightly ahead?!)



Careful now, don't jinx it 
Glad to hear the new approach is panning out- looks promising!


----------



## animalsasleader

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Careful now, don't jinx it
> Glad to hear the new approach is panning out- looks promising!


I know right?! I definitely hesitated while typing that. #ptsd


----------



## Pwntus

> Switching to uniform specs really was the perfect solution delays and it looks like we’re right on schedule (dare I say slightly ahead?!) These will head to paint next week.


Looking really good! Just out of curiosity, how much of the process can you guys standardize before you need to cater to customer requests (like finish and hardware etc)?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Tosin can you tell us the prices and what there looking like? For the American models?


----------



## Inceptic

https://www.instagram.com/p/B6Wj1vqHdFg/?igshid=nq2zg9lqwlnh

Will this be one of the uniform specs offered? I never imagined myself G.A.S.ing for an eight string or a pink guitar, and yet here I am, wanting this one. What a stunner!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I want one now. It all depends on price really


----------



## animalsasleader

Hey guys! If any of you are planning on being at NAMM we’ll be at booth #4828. We’ve got some new things for you to check out.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

animalsasleader said:


> Hey guys! If any of you are planning on being at NAMM we’ll be at booth #4828. We’ve got some new things for you to check out.
> View attachment 76541



I wish I was going to NANM just to see that


----------



## stupidweakbaby

The anticipation is killing me. I'm constantly refreshing the Abasi Concepts site so I can snatch an 8 string when they're available again. Is there any info on when new customers will be able to order? Please end my suffering, Tosin!


----------



## bzhang9

stupidweakbaby said:


> The anticipation is killing me. I'm constantly refreshing the Abasi Concepts site so I can snatch an 8 string when they're available again. Is there any info on when new customers will be able to order? Please end my suffering, Tosin!



STRONG post to username to fanboy ratio


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Any news from NAMM and this new direction?


----------



## Splinterhead

Very psyched that everything got ironed out! These guitars look intriguing!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

There aren’t enough social media posts about them it’s making me sad


----------



## Rich5150

Curious to see the price point on the WMI guitars that satin burl top was killer


----------



## Bdtunn

Very interested in the WMI version


----------



## narad

Rich5150 said:


> Curious to see the price point on the WMI guitars that satin burl top was killer




That's cool -- I was chiming in on that guy's thread on TGP like 5 years ago when he was trying to get a feel for whether there was a market for the CF quilt tops. Good to see it getting out there. IIRC, it's based on the decorative fiberglass processes I guess they use on nice boats. The guy was trying to put it on his own guitar shapes but they were horrendous.


----------



## srrdude

welp. That black limba/ wenge combo is a winner. 100% would buy. Assuming it goes on sale.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

narad said:


> That's cool -- I was chiming in on that guy's thread on TGP like 5 years ago when he was trying to get a feel for whether there was a market for the CF quilt tops. Good to see it getting out there. IIRC, it's based on the decorative fiberglass processes I guess they use on nice boats. The guy was trying to put it on his own guitar shapes but they were horrendous.


His cf and burl composite tops are super cool looking imo. Walla Walla guitars has some crazy teles with his tops.


----------



## Hollowway

Man, that CF models is cool! Not so much because of the CF, but I love the binding on it. That is one guitar that looks cool with binding. Hopefully they do a bunch like that. Otherwise I'm gonna have to break out the Sharpie when I get one.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I swear to God I’m going to get myself in trouble with these.


----------



## Hollowway

glassmoon0fo said:


> I swear to God I’m going to get myself in trouble with these.


I read that post while looking at your avatar. You guitar pervert.


----------



## Albake21

Ooo I'd be very interested in getting a WMI 7 string. Tosin, these is starting to look fantastic! Love the binding on the carbon fiber topped one.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I’m a dirty dirty gear whore and Tosin is Huggybear in a Sears poncho. Ima have his muthafuckin money this time I promise


----------



## Jonathan20022

Damn a WMI Abasi 7 or 8 is definitely on my radar. That's a killer direction to take the brand in. Interested in the price range, but if it's sup 17 - 1800 for an 8 string I'd love to get in on one.


----------



## Lemonbaby

Assuming this ever works out and gets to Europe a few years later, the blue gradient thing with 7 strings would be an option. Let's wait for 2022...


----------



## 77zark77

Very nice arsenal Tosin shows here !
He looks proud and enthousiast, I think he deserves it, the result after years of bad thoughts I could read here and there, looks fantastic
Congratulations Mr Abasi !


----------



## BlackMastodon

I literally "whoooof!"ed out lout when he turned that CF over into its back. Goddamn it looks beautiful. And that blue fade swamp ash one has got me seriously tempted.

The roller coaster ride of emotions of this thread! Excited to see these come out, and hoping for everyone who wants one that this keeps moving in the right direction, but the latest builds are looking absolutely awesome.


----------



## Frostbite

My jaw fucking DROPPED when he showed that carbon fiber top. It's fucking holographic it's absolutely stunning. 

Them working with WMI is exciting for a lot of reason. First being price and second being we may actually see these. That 7 is absolutely calling my name


----------



## Bdtunn

This guitar for the win!!


----------



## JSanta

These aren't the kind of guitar I would play, but the CF one looks absolutely killer. 

Good luck on these @animalsasleader !


----------



## Hollowway

I don’t want to think about how much the CF one costs, but I’m down for a WMI. If the CF style isn’t too crazy, I’d love that!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Hollowway said:


> I don’t want to think about how much the CF one costs, but I’m down for a WMI. If the CF style isn’t too crazy, I’d love that!


the cf panels are like 3-500$ if you buy em direct from the guy who makes em iirc. No idea how much abasi would mark it up from there though.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

That blue 8 and carbon fibre 8 are gorgeous. Great to see it running a lot smoother now.


----------



## BryanM7

Good on Tosin for keeping his head down and quietly righting the ship amidst all the noise of the past year.
Things are looking really nice so far. I’m hopeful for his success.


----------



## Hollowway

KnightBrolaire said:


> the cf panels are like 3-500$ if you buy em direct from the guy who makes em iirc. No idea how much abasi would mark it up from there though.



But it’ll be more expensive than the WMI because it’s a USA model. But, we shall see.


----------



## bostjan

These guitars look incredible! I'd be concerned about how to actually get one if I had the money.


----------



## Bdtunn

According to guitAr world the 8 string WMI will be priced around 1800


----------



## Albake21

Bdtunn said:


> According to guitAr world the 8 string WMI will be priced around 1800


Is that USD, Euro..? Regardless, that's about what I expected.


----------



## StevenC

Bdtunn said:


> According to guitAr world the 8 string WMI will be priced around 1800


Sounds like the USA stuff is getting a price bump.


----------



## Bdtunn

Albake21 said:


> Is that USD, Euro..? Regardless, that's about what I expected.



USD 
Yeah that about where I expected as well


----------



## AmoryDrive

I bought this Chartreuse J Larada 8 on Thursday, so excited for it to ship to me on Tuesday! Left it at the show for people to try and for Tosin to use for the weekend. i did try to convince Ivan to sell me the WMI with the quilt top but sounds like they're holding onto that for a bit since it's a proto. They are very comparable to the J Larada and I think people will be happy with them for sure

Also had the opportunity to plug it into Neural DSP's Archetype Abasi, wish I could say it made me able to thump but I don't think you could ask for a much better combo lol


----------



## AmoryDrive

Oh and if anyone wanted a good heel detail shot, here's the neck joint for the bolt on Laradas


----------



## Hollowway

AmoryDrive said:


> Oh and if anyone wanted a good heel detail shot, here's the neck joint for the bolt on Laradas
> View attachment 76760


Yeah, I’m not liking that weird flange on the neck. I feel like there would have been some better ways to do that junction there.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I’m not liking that weird flange on the neck. I feel like there would have been some better ways to do that junction there.


It feels pretty similar to the set neck heel, creates a nice "pocket" for your thumb to lock into when playing in the upper register. It looks more offensive than it actually is when playing imo


----------



## Avedas

Is that the same janky neck joint the J Laradas have?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Are the wmi neck joints a j Larada neck joints different/they look horrible


----------



## cip 123

Remember that we've already had one neck joint without that extra bit of wood and you end up with the G A P 

I'm happy with that joint


----------



## jephjacques

It seems fine to me. Look at that nice tight neck pocket!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I’ve looked at it a couple times and I take it back I like it but I think I’d need to try it out


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Well you have done it Abasi. You have made me want to go back to playing 8 string. I played it exclusively for 5 years then quit for a whole year. I now want to go back.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Folks nitpicking neck joints they've never played is top-tier SSO.


----------



## StevenC

Kinda lame that the USA and J Laradas have the USB charger for the pickups, but the WMI just has a battery box.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

MaxOfMetal said:


> Folks nitpicking neck joints they've never played is top-tier SSO.


Hey I’ve changed


----------



## jbaxter

StevenC said:


> Kinda lame that the USA and J Laradas have the USB charger for the pickups, but the WMI just has a battery box.


That charging pack aint cheap, using a battery box prolly keeps costs down, which I'd imagine is the goal of the import model


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Any talk of dates for the WMI model availability on the website? Is production underway or will it start some time in 2020? 

Im definitely considering one as my first 8-string.


----------



## AmoryDrive

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Any talk of dates for the WMI model availability on the website? Is production underway or will it start some time in 2020?
> 
> Im definitely considering one as my first 8-string.


The impression I got was later this year for the WMI Laradas


----------



## Hollowway

AmoryDrive said:


> It feels pretty similar to the set neck heel, creates a nice "pocket" for your thumb to lock into when playing in the upper register. It looks more offensive than it actually is when playing imo


Yeah, I’m sure it plays well. It just looks like a weird design thing. I realize I’m drinking tea with my pinky up on this, but I think there’s probably a more elegant design to get the gap there closed, and not have that flange hanging on. Maybe extend the body under the neck a bit, and remove the flange. I mean, I’m prolly gonna get one anyway, but I just didn’t expect to see that.


----------



## bulb

i'm buying the blue one


----------



## cip 123

bulb said:


> i'm buying the blue one


Hope you have fun with it


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> i'm buying the blue one


Why blue?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> Why blue?



More mids.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> More mids.


Figured that would have been green or yellow.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> Figured that would have been green or yellow.



You're thinking satin finishes.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> You're thinking satin finishes.


But these are half satin.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> But these are half satin.



How else are you going to get a good even tone, Steven?


----------



## bulb

MaxOfMetal said:


> You're thinking satin finishes.



Satin poly is much thinner than gloss poly, so it does sound better!


----------



## bulb

StevenC said:


> Why blue?


Favorite color, has mojo!


----------



## AmoryDrive

bulb said:


> Favorite color, has mojo!


That one was siiiiiiick, would love to see more fades


----------



## StevenC

bulb said:


> Favorite color, has mojo!


Cool, I'm also considering going the blue J way.


----------



## AmoryDrive

StevenC said:


> Cool, I'm also considering going the blue J way.


Was telling them they should do one in World Rally Blue with gold hardware for the Subaru people since they did the BMW Chartreuse lol Then I'd have one to match my WRX lol


----------



## Inceptic

Any word on pricing/availability for the pink master series?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Any word on models, availability or pricing? Thought we’d have heard it by now since namm is over


----------



## cip 123

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Any word on models, availability or pricing? Thought we’d have heard it by now since namm is over


Namm might be over for us but still w heck of a lot of work for them give em a little time


----------



## Bastian93

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Any word on models, availability or pricing? Thought we’d have heard it by now since namm is over



For pricing Tosin said that the WMI Models will be around 1600-1800 USD, the J-Laradas at around 2800 USD and US Models will be at 3k USD and above, with the emphasis on "and above"...
Availability is the big question mark, Tosin only mentioned that WMI is 8 string for now, 7 will follow soon and 6 after that.

Source:


----------



## bawsmcgee

The neck profile on those look rather flat at the high end, which for me is absolutely perfect. Just need to wait till the production models come to the uk to try em out. But the production WMI model with the burl top is my favourite out of the bunch and thankfully appears also to be the cheapest option, even better if it feels like the set next models. Anyone who's tried them able to give an impression on the neck profiles?


----------



## Pietjepieter

I am really curious for the WMI ones, will definitely try out when available in Europe!

Still love the design, and the bold on neck doesn't look to bad on the WMI ones, for some reason better than on the japan version.
Really hoping they will be available in europe!


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

I'm happy things seem to be working out for Tosin and the company after the ups and downs with production, establishing the brand, etc. It couldn't have been an easy process to get everything together and it's a hell of an investment of time and resources. The Space T in particular has my eye, I'd love to see it in a few different colors!


----------



## glassmoon0fo

In a way I totally have no right to claim, I’m super proud of Tosin for holding it down for the past year and some change, and coming out the other side with some excitement and positive vibes for this line. It was pretty brutal outlooks, in here at least, and I don’t imagine it was much nicer elsewhere. Rightfully so, depending on who you ask I suppose. Nonetheless here we are. Kudos to my dude, solid birthday blessing I’m sure.


----------



## Lemonbaby

Crash Dandicoot said:


> I'm happy things seem to be working out for Tosin and the company after the ups and downs with production, establishing the brand, etc.


I guess we'll see in the next month's. So far, everything looks like a year ago: guitars at NAMM booth, production ready to go...


----------



## srrdude

glassmoon0fo said:


> In a way I totally have no right to claim, I’m super proud of Tosin for holding it down for the past year and some change, and coming out the other side with some excitement and positive vibes for this line. It was pretty brutal outlooks, in here at least, and I don’t imagine it was much nicer elsewhere. Rightfully so, depending on who you ask I suppose. Nonetheless here we are. Kudos to my dude, solid birthday blessing I’m sure.



ya i'm gonna wait until these things start getting into peoples hands before i start with the congratulatory stuff.


----------



## Hollowway

Bastian93 said:


> Tosin only mentioned that WMI is 8 string for now



My man. Wave that 8 string flag high!


----------



## animalsasleader

Lemonbaby said:


> I guess we'll see in the next month's. So far, everything looks like a year ago: guitars at NAMM booth, production ready to go...



I totally understand your hesitance, but we’re in a different place than last year in many important ways.
1.) We no longer build to order. Anything advertised already exists.
2.) We’re working with factories that many other much larger brands depend on.
3.) The production at WMI is actually in cooperation with Schecter guitars. We are benefiting from their relationship with WMI and utilizing their QC and fulfillment. They’re also extremely confident and motivated to see this play out successfully. They totally nailed the revision of the blot-on design and have delivered some superb prototypes.
4.) We have production established in Japan, Korea and two shops in southern California. All indipendent of each other. We’ve learned a lot and, to be “frank” we’ve over corrected.



Thanks for attending my TED talk.




Pictures of WMI prototypes and some USA builds below


----------



## Pwntus

animalsasleader said:


> I totally understand your hesitance, but we’re in a different place than last year in many important ways.
> 1.) We no longer build to order. Anything advertised already exists.
> 2.) We’re working with factories that many other much larger brands depend on.
> 3.) The production at WMI is actually in cooperation with Schecter guitars. We are benefiting from their relationship with WMI and utilizing their QC and fulfillment. They’re also extremely confident and motivated to see this play out successfully. They totally nailed the revision of the blot-on design and have delivered some superb prototypes.
> 4.) We have production established in Japan, Korea and two shops in southern California. All indipendent of each other. We’ve learned a lot and, to be “frank” we’ve over corrected.
> 
> Thanks for attending my TED talk.
> 
> Pictures of WMI prototypes and some USA builds below



This sounds promosing! I remain optimistic for the future for you guys.
Knowing that some of them are prototypes, what will happen to some of the finishes you have previously released and shown on your social media channels, will they all be included in the upcoming production line or will some be phased out?


----------



## ChugThisBoy

To be "frank", hehe. Can we expect some in-stock models at dealers in Europe in not-so-distant future? As a lad living in Poland I can't imagine paying customs from a guitar buyed in Japan or US cus I could have a second one for that money


----------



## Fred the Shred

Pretty! Here's hoping the "overcompensation" works out for all parties involved!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Are space t’s gonna be made in WMI?


----------



## Freakyfredreaky

Look forward to seeing these more affordable models


----------



## Bdtunn

animalsasleader said:


> I totally understand your hesitance, but we’re in a different place than last year in many important ways.
> 1.) We no longer build to order. Anything advertised already exists.
> 2.) We’re working with factories that many other much larger brands depend on.
> 3.) The production at WMI is actually in cooperation with Schecter guitars. We are benefiting from their relationship with WMI and utilizing their QC and fulfillment. They’re also extremely confident and motivated to see this play out successfully. They totally nailed the revision of the blot-on design and have delivered some superb prototypes.
> 4.) We have production established in Japan, Korea and two shops in southern California. All indipendent of each other. We’ve learned a lot and, to be “frank” we’ve over corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for attending my TED talk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pictures of WMI prototypes and some USA builds below




I got to be the guy to ask....
Lefties????


----------



## bawsmcgee

Tosin gotta ask then when we will be expecting some of the production models to be making it into stores. Obviously US will be seeing them first but in the EU I'm guessing places like Thomann would be the first port of call for contact, but beyond that in the UK are you in touch with Westside distro? They distribute Schecter and such to shops like GuitarGuitar (basically UK version of Guitar Centre but more reputable imo) so I'd imagine they would be keen and would also be a smart choice for getting them into shops over here. Because as much as I'm certain I will end up getting one, I still feel they are a must try before you buy type affair.


----------



## Frostbite

Bdtunn said:


> I got to be the guy to ask....
> Lefties????


"Yes we need you to stop being a freak. Just have fun with it" Wait wrong circle jerk...


----------



## animalsasleader

animalsasleader said:


> I totally understand your hesitance, but we’re in a different place than last year in many important ways.
> 1.) We no longer build to order. Anything advertised already exists.
> 2.) We’re working with factories that many other much larger brands depend on.
> 3.) The production at WMI is actually in cooperation with Schecter guitars. We are benefiting from their relationship with WMI and utilizing their QC and fulfillment. They’re also extremely confident and motivated to see this play out successfully. They totally nailed the revision of the blot-on design and have delivered some superb prototypes.
> 4.) We have production established in Japan, Korea and two shops in southern California. All indipendent of each other. We’ve learned a lot and, to be “frank” we’ve over corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for attending my TED talk.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pictures of WMI prototypes and some USA builds below





Jack McGoldrick said:


> Are space t’s gonna be made in WMI?


USA made at the moment.


----------



## animalsasleader

Repost cause larger photo. This is a run of 30 Grover builds heading to paint. Thought the photo looked cool. We have another PO going in soon while these are being finished
up.


----------



## inaudio

Please tell me that it will still be possible to buy a Meowrada? My wife ok'd it and that NEVER happens.


----------



## srrdude

animalsasleader said:


> View attachment 76878
> Repost cause larger photo. This is a run of 30 Grover builds heading to paint. Thought the photo looked cool. We have another PO going in soon while these are being finished
> up.


That does look promising. Are these the uniform spec us builds then? Do you have a pricepoint for these?

also, when will that cf usa be sold, how much, and can i buy it please?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

srrdude said:


> That does look promising. Are these the uniform spec us builds then? Do you have a pricepoint for these?
> 
> also, when will that cf usa be sold, how much, and can i buy it please?



What’s the timeline looking like? When will you be aiming for orders to be made and for products received?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Are the WMI models all going to be that burl look? Or can we expect some solid colors? @animalsasleader 
Second part of that, will the difference's between solid and burl also have a difference in price?


----------



## animalsasleader

inaudio said:


> Please tell me that it will still be possible to buy a Meowrada? My wife ok'd it and that NEVER happens.


We can do that


----------



## ImNotAhab

inaudio said:


> Please tell me that it will still be possible to buy a Meowrada? My wife ok'd it and that NEVER happens.





animalsasleader said:


> We can do that


----------



## Orzech

I'm really GASing for the carbon fiber "quilted" top one. I wonder how much it's going to cost.


----------



## animalsasleader

Orzech said:


> I'm really GASing for the carbon fiber "quilted" top one. I wonder how much it's going to cost.


$4,000


----------



## StevenC

animalsasleader said:


> $4,000


And the non carbon fibre pink ones? A friend at NAMM sent me a video of you insisting I buy a guitar, so I'm doing my best.


----------



## narad

StevenC said:


> And the non carbon fibre pink ones? A friend at NAMM sent me a video of you insisting I buy a guitar, so I'm doing my best.



Get it done.


----------



## animalsasleader

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Are the WMI models all going to be that burl look? Or can we expect some solid colors? @animalsasleader
> Second part of that, will the difference's between solid and burl also have a difference in price?


Definitely gonna do the burl. Maybe a solid color for the second option. What would choose for something you’d like, but would also appeal to a lot of other people?


----------



## Hollowway

animalsasleader said:


> Definitely gonna do the burl. Maybe a solid color for the second option. What would choose for something you’d like, but would also appeal to a lot of other people?


Pink. Do eet! Everyone is buying pink instruments now. Plus, that’s what I want! I’m not just gonna practice Mind Spun on any old guitar.


----------



## Albake21

animalsasleader said:


> Definitely gonna do the burl. Maybe a solid color for the second option. What would choose for something you’d like, but would also appeal to a lot of other people?


Considering I see a company like Charvel selling a ton of their new DK24s with the roasted maple necks and solid colored bodies, I feel like people are starting to want more solid colored guitars again. I know I do, and I see others on here wanting the same.


----------



## animalsasleader

StevenC said:


> And the non carbon fibre pink ones? A friend at NAMM sent me a video of you insisting I buy a guitar, so I'm doing my best.


Nice! Your friend is a good dude. The pink ones are USA made and around $3200


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Pink would be really really good, White too


----------



## Pwntus

Any chance of you guys keeping the raw wood ones in your line?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Pwntus said:


> Any chance of you guys keeping the raw wood ones in your line?
> View attachment 76914


That guitar was the nicest


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

animalsasleader said:


> Definitely gonna do the burl. Maybe a solid color for the second option. What would choose for something you’d like, but would also appeal to a lot of other people?



I would honestly make a poll with 4-5 solid options and let your social media followers vote. That would also make them feel more connected to the development of the instrument and give you an idea of what colors people would like. (Look at trending guitar colors. People want pizzazz and flash)
I.E
Shell Pink- Satin
Chartreuse- Gloss
Light Blue- Satin
Burgundy Mist- Satin
White-Gloss
Lavender- Satin
Road flare red esque color- Gloss
Seafoam Green- Satin/Gloss
(Don't the WMI people do swirls now? I remember seeing Jacksons and Balaguers with them)


The reason this is popular here is because people feel connected to the development having been keeping up with the history of your company and you being involved with the forum. Doing a poll could help people outside of the forum to get that same connection that this forum has with your company.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Also

Solid colours > veneers


----------



## Jonathan20022

I'm in for Solid Colors as well, I don't enjoy the variance of figured veneers in general. So if I could just get a solid black WMI 8 string I'd be pretty happy with that over the wood option.

Thanks for weighing in and listening to the needy SSO banter


----------



## jephjacques

let's all buy pink laradas in 2020


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> let's all buy pink laradas in 2020



Pink gang. We on that gang shit.


----------



## ThePIGI King

Pink 8 with a trem? Hmmm, might be able to do that in 2020.


----------



## MrJoncas

Congrat on the new line up Tosin ! I'm happy to see AC finally taking off! 

As for the current/futur offering, I'd highly consider a WMI made 7 strings in a solid color, preferably all satin or gloss (also keep the cost lower than having a 2 tones finish I suspect), roasted maple or wenge neck with an ebody/richlite fingerboard. If I can add my 2 cents, I'm not a big fan of the roasted maple neck and non-roasted fingerboard of the moewrada. I prefer when both match.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Actually yeah, I don't know what the preference is from a manufacturing standpoint. But if you could push Richlite as the dark fretboard option that would be heavenly, more people need to experience it and I'd love to have a richlite fretboard so I just don't have to deal with ebony shrinking ever again.


----------



## stupidweakbaby

I'm really into the pink ones as well

Just let me click order, man


----------



## animalsasleader

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Pink would be really really good, White too


We’ve definitely considered white. High gloss or matte tho?


----------



## Thaeon

Jonathan20022 said:


> Actually yeah, I don't know what the preference is from a manufacturing standpoint. But if you could push Richlite as the dark fretboard option that would be heavenly, more people need to experience it and I'd love to have a richlite fretboard so I just don't have to deal with ebony shrinking ever again.



I LOVE Richlite. Its going on my Oni build. 

My preference on guitars in general is solid colors. Don't get me wrong. The wood grain and figure and all that is incredible. It just reminds me of furniture and makes me afraid to use it the way I want to.


----------



## AmoryDrive

animalsasleader said:


> We’ve definitely considered white. High gloss or matte tho?


Gloss, matte white tends to yellow faster I've noticed.

Gotta get some sparkle and maybe some Hentai/Ahegao print options


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

animalsasleader said:


> We’ve definitely considered white. High gloss or matte tho?



I’d say matte, when shiny guitars are on stage and the light is bouncing everywhere it’s kinda annoying and I like the feel of matte, and there’s no finger prints


----------



## KnightBrolaire

AmoryDrive said:


> Gloss, matte white tends to yellow faster I've noticed.
> 
> Gotta get some sparkle and maybe some Hentai/Ahegao print options


bad weeb, bad weeb, go back to reddit or 4chan
*whacks with rolled up newspaper*


----------



## spudmunkey

AmoryDrive said:


> Gloss, matte white tends to yellow faster I've noticed.



The nice thing about white is that the shiny spots that all satin finishes develop are least noticeable on white, but you're right" any grime that does get into the white is much more noticeable than on any other color. You really do need to keeep up with keeping it clean, using the RIGHT cleaners, specifically designed for satin finishes...and yet not clean it so much that you wear down the micro-texture that makes up the satin-ness in the first place.


----------



## Bdtunn

Solid colours for the win!!!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

What about an off-White cream type thing? Like an old strat


----------



## BlackMastodon

Gloss white + blacker than black fretboard and hardware + black binding. Get that storm trooper look. 

Also, because I love the KM7's in this finish: Lambo/metallic orange with carbon fibre binding.

While we're dreaming out loud and thinking about fast motor vehicles: Kawasaki green?


----------



## animalsasleader

MrJoncas said:


> Congrat on the new line up Tosin ! I'm happy to see AC finally taking off!
> 
> As for the current/futur offering, I'd highly consider a WMI made 7 strings in a solid color, preferably all satin or gloss (also keep the cost lower than having a 2 tones finish I suspect), roasted maple or wenge neck with an ebody/richlite fingerboard. If I can add my 2 cents, I'm not a big fan of the roasted maple neck and non-roasted fingerboard of the moewrada. I prefer when both match.


Thanks! Definitely agree about the solid color + satin and the roasted woods.


----------



## animalsasleader

Great idea 


Jack McGoldrick said:


> What about an off-White cream type thing? Like an old strat


----------



## Quiet Coil

I’ve got satin nitro over white poly, looks terrific and seems to be holding up well.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Maybe an unpopular opinion but what about solid color on the the top and natural on the bevel leading to the back also natural. It would show off the wood and give a cool contrast.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

animalsasleader said:


> We’ve definitely considered white. High gloss or matte tho?



PEARL white my dude


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

glassmoon0fo said:


> PEARL white my dude



OOF


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

this but Larada with the white pickups, off white body, richlite, gold hardware oh my Lordy lord


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Wait what about a cream color? Cream looks really good with the dark wenge neck. If not richlite, you could even do a wenge board ot something crazy liek purpleheart


----------



## Thaeon

animalsasleader said:


> Great idea



Vintage Yellow and somehow incorporate some Tortieshell. But make it a pearl Vintage Yellow... 

I think you're the only person out there thinking as forward shape and construction wise and willing to do a vintage throwback look. Or at least the only one who's acted on it with the Tele thing.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Any idea if the announced update of the Abasi Concepts website will involve updated inventories ? When is it planned for ?

About polling social media (including this forum) for color or build preferences:

Ola Englund gave a big warning about doing this. If I recall correctly, on two instances he did polls for Solar guitars and in the end some of the most popular options in the polls were the worst sellers.

My girlfriend is a fashion designer and had a similar experience with her company.

Food for thought...


----------



## cip 123

When polling the public and particularly this forum one must remember they're not actually customers till they give you money. This is still SSO, and if someone asks for an 8 recommendation I'm still gonna say used RG2228. This is the kind of demographic you get in the forum. There are some newcomers to this thread who very much seem to be here for Abasi which is good, but it is still SSO.

That goes both ways for Tosin and Forum users.

There's lots of stuff I'd Love to see and I can sit here and post it all, heck I have a Larada build here in the build section with my own ideas. But that does not mean I will actually buy a Larada if it came in the perfect colour.

We'd all love to see pinks, two tones, fades, swirls. It comes down to how many people go "Huh cool" and like it on instagram when it gets released and how many actually buy it.

Take a leaf outta Ibanez' book with the PIA, white is the constant production colour, limited runs of colours for those who want them.


----------



## diagrammatiks

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Any idea if the announced update of the Abasi Concepts website will involve updated inventories ? When is it planned for ?
> 
> About polling social media (including this forum) for color or build preferences:
> 
> Ola Englund gave a big warning about doing this. If I recall correctly, on two instances he did polls for Solar guitars and in the end some of the most popular options in the polls were the worst sellers.
> 
> My girlfriend is a fashion designer and had a similar experience with her company.
> 
> Food for thought...



you never listen to your user base. they are all asshats. unless they literally have cash in hand they are giving you. then do whatever they want.


----------



## Frostbite

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Any idea if the announced update of the Abasi Concepts website will involve updated inventories ? When is it planned for ?
> 
> About polling social media (including this forum) for color or build preferences:
> 
> Ola Englund gave a big warning about doing this. If I recall correctly, on two instances he did polls for Solar guitars and in the end some of the most popular options in the polls were the worst sellers.
> 
> My girlfriend is a fashion designer and had a similar experience with her company.
> 
> Food for thought...


Yeah this is going to be a big thing to remember. Most people don't actually know what they want. I'd say you can definitely ask people for their opinions, but in the end final decision, you should only take that into consideration with that caveat in place


----------



## Extrafunk

Richlite, no fret markers!


----------



## iamaom

*Tosin unveiling his new Larada with the help of SSO*


----------



## Doctopus

animalsasleader said:


> Definitely gonna do the burl. Maybe a solid color for the second option. What would choose for something you’d like, but would also appeal to a lot of other people?



You might want to do something different but personally, your light grey top/white pickup guitar with gold hardware is maybe the prettiest solid-colour guitar I've ever seen!


----------



## spudmunkey

I think something like a metallic gunmetal would suit the body shape very well....


----------



## Hollowway

I think there are some real cool colors that live between the colors we’re used to seeing. Most guitars come in colors that look like they’re from a box of 8 crayons. The cool colors don’t show up until 64, or 128 crayons. One of my criticisms of Kiesel for a long time was that they just had the super standard colors, and haven’t branched into different ones until recently. And a lot of them are still custom order only. 
What we should do is post HOK samples for the colors we like here. That way we see exactly what it is.


----------



## StevenC

Guys we just agreed to only buying pink ones.


----------



## Inceptic

animalsasleader said:


> Nice! Your friend is a good dude. The pink ones are USA made and around $3200



What's the tuning and string gauges for the 8-string pink ones?


----------



## Hollowway

Inceptic said:


> What's the tuning and string gauges for the 8-string pink ones?


You’re in luck! Tosin is making the strings _changeable_ on the pink model, so you can put on whatever gauges you want. AND, he’s putting these little screw like knobs on the top end, and putting the strings into them, and if you turn them, the tuning will change. So these are super adjustable.


----------



## Randy

What's a guy gotta do to get some abalone in herr?


----------



## bostjan

Randy said:


> What's a guy gotta do to get some abalone in herr?


BCR used it all


----------



## Rich5150

Fred the Shred said:


> Pretty! Here's hoping the "overcompensation" works out for all parties involved!



Im curious if this WMI, diggin the top


----------



## LeviathanKiller

I'm so confused as to what manufacturer I'd be ordering from if I placed an order at this point. Pretty much all of them have looked nice at least.


----------



## bzhang9

lets be honest if he had stayed with ibanez and had his sig released 5 years ago with 3k MIJ and 1.5k indo lines he'd be crushing the ERG market

ola strandberg and jeff kiesel laughing through this whole thread


----------



## Lemonbaby

Any information by when Europe will get to buy those guitars?



Hollowway said:


> You’re in luck! Tosin is making the strings _changeable_ on the pink model, so you can put on whatever gauges you want. AND, he’s putting these little screw like knobs on the top end, and putting the strings into them, and if you turn them, the tuning will change. So these are super adjustable.


Now THAT'S what I love about those ergo guitars. Finally endless flexibility after all those years of fixed-tuning instruments...


----------



## StevenC

bzhang9 said:


> lets be honest if he had stayed with ibanez and had his sig released 5 years ago with 3k MIJ and 1.5k indo lines he'd be crushing the ERG market
> 
> ola strandberg and jeff kiesel laughing through this whole thread


At best this might have been announced 2 NAMMs ago from Ibanez, which would mean it probably gets released a year and a half ago. Given Ibanez's normal way of doing things, an import version would game been announced either last year or this year at best. One would have been black and the other would have been gray.


----------



## Avedas

Bastian93 said:


> For pricing Tosin said that the WMI Models will be around 1600-1800 USD, the J-Laradas at around 2800 USD and US Models will be at 3k USD and above, with the emphasis on "and above"...
> Availability is the big question mark, Tosin only mentioned that WMI is 8 string for now, 7 will follow soon and 6 after that.
> 
> Source:



Does Tosin know the J Laradas are still going for $4000+? lol

And despite the snark earlier, I have actually played J Laradas and personally did not like the neck joint and preferred the old set neck joint, to be "frank" 
Maybe the WMI ones will feel better to me.


----------



## StevenC

Avedas said:


> Does Tosin know the J Laradas are still going for $4000+? lol
> 
> And despite the snark earlier, I have actually played J Laradas and personally did not like the neck joint and preferred the old set neck joint, to be "frank"
> Maybe the WMI ones will feel better to me.


Much like with J Strandbergs, I don't think Tosin sets the prices in Japan.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Rich5150 said:


> Im curious if this WMI, diggin the top


Yup thats WMI


----------



## AmoryDrive

Store is live!

https://abasiconcepts.com/collections/j-larada


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Aye lemme get one with Apple Pay there


----------



## StevenC

Ugh, no charging port on the Js either.

EDIT: And no international shipping


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

The pillows in the pictures are nice


----------



## xzacx

Am I missing the specs on these somewhere? I'd be interested in a 7 in a non-excessive scale length, but don't see what they are. Bolt-ons aren't really my thing though, so I'd probably rather wait for a USA regardless. Despite all the drama this model has gone through, and not being able to listen to more than 15 seconds of AAL (just not my taste), and having Fishmans, I've thought the design was so cool since the Ibanez version and I still want one.


----------



## StevenC

xzacx said:


> Am I missing the specs on these somewhere? I'd be interested in a 7 in a non-excessive scale length, but don't see what they are. Bolt-ons aren't really my thing though, so I'd probably rather wait for a USA regardless. Despite all the drama this model has gone through, and not being able to listen to more than 15 seconds of AAL (just not my taste), and having Fishmans, I've thought the design was so cool since the Ibanez version and I still want one.


https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop28/DS05737266/

25.5-27.21" apparently


----------



## xzacx

StevenC said:


> https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop28/DS05737266/
> 
> 25.5-27.21" apparently


Appreciate it! I kind of expected it to be too long, so at least I know now.


----------



## c7spheres

AmoryDrive said:


> Oh and if anyone wanted a good heel detail shot, here's the neck joint for the bolt on Laradas
> View attachment 76760



What is this a chip or splnter or just the picture playing tricks? Looks like it could easliy be sanded smooth.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I guess sage sells quickly... gonna have to wait for the US models.

@c7spheres is that a J-Larada ?


----------



## StevenC

c7spheres said:


> What is this a chip or splnter or just the picture playing tricks? Looks like it could easliy be sanded smooth.
> View attachment 76976


It's wenge, could be a chip because of the nature of wenge, ot it could just look like that.


HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I guess sage sells quickly... gonna have to wait for the US models.
> 
> @c7spheres is that a J-Larada ?


No, WMI.


----------



## c7spheres

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I guess sage sells quickly... gonna have to wait for the US models.
> 
> @c7spheres is that a J-Larada ?


 I don't know. I think so. It's not my guitar.


----------



## AmoryDrive

c7spheres said:


> What is this a chip or splnter or just the picture playing tricks? Looks like it could easliy be sanded smooth.
> View attachment 76976


That's just end grain


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Finally I might buy a J-Larada based on the neck profile (C-shape for US Larada).


----------



## bassisace

Tried to order, website finds no shipping option in Toronto (Canada). Ah well, I guess I'm richer.


----------



## StevenC

Anybody see the price on the J8s before they sold out? 7s are $2799 but no number on the 8s.


----------



## AmoryDrive

StevenC said:


> Anybody see the price on the J8s before they sold out? 7s are $2799 but no number on the 8s.


Should be 2799 as well, that's what my Chartreuse was (no case)


----------



## StevenC

AmoryDrive said:


> Should be 2799 as well, that's what my Chartreuse was (no case)


Cool, thanks. Apparently no more 8s until the USAs in March, so that's what I'll be going for hopefully.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Order done. Website problem sorted out quickly. Great customer support. The wait begins


----------



## animalsasleader

Thaeon said:


> Vintage Yellow and somehow incorporate some Tortieshell. But make it a pearl Vintage Yellow...
> 
> I think you're the only person out there thinking as forward shape and construction wise and willing to do a vintage throwback look. Or at least the only one who's acted on it with the Tele thing.


I feel you on that tradition meets forward thinking design thing. The juxtaposition can be really impactful. Older more traditional design elements have endured for a reason and can definitely help to ground more bold ideas.


----------



## animalsasleader

Avedas said:


> Does Tosin know the J Laradas are still going for $4000+? lol
> 
> And despite the snark earlier, I have actually played J Laradas and personally did not like the neck joint and preferred the old set neck joint, to be "frank"
> Maybe the WMI ones will feel better to me.


J Laradas are much cheaper in the US. Also, I tried the ones in Japan wasn’t stoked on the set ups. I think your experience may have to do with string height and relief in the neck. It’s crazy how impactful a good set can be for a guitar. If you’ve ever been to NAMM you’ll know what I mean.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@bassisace : try again, the web admin added a whole bunch of regions in Canada.


----------



## c7spheres

Just saw the Andertons video Tosin did with Rabea. I'll bet these are awesome to play now knowing more about them. I love that Tosin is a believer in tonewood too. Wenge necks help better with the lower registers he says. I like the bolt model he says will be around $1800.


----------



## Hollowway

Do we have an ETA on the WMIs? I like the chartreuse 8, but the J version is gone, so I'm curious what the WMIs will look like.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Hollowway said:


> Do we have an ETA on the WMIs? I like the chartreuse 8, but the J version is gone, so I'm curious what the WMIs will look like.


The impression I got was summer


----------



## Hollowway

AmoryDrive said:


> The impression I got



Thanks


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Says on the Instagram late summer (so winter namm?)


----------



## Avedas

StevenC said:


> Much like with J Strandbergs, I don't think Tosin sets the prices in Japan.


Yeah. It'd be substantially cheaper to proxy buy one in the US and get it shipped back to Japan lol


----------



## StevenC

Hello Mr Tosin, is there any chance of a picture comparing any of the sage Abasis with your original Ibanez in that colour and one of your RG shaped TAM100s? Just for comparison of colour, because different pictures make the colour look so different on the Ibanez Larada and my TAM100 is a different colour every time I look at it.


----------



## klaim

All the 8 strings J Larada are sold-out already :/
| wonder if it's really that there is massive demand or if there is just a low number of guitars?

Anyway I'm in Europe so I guess I'll have to wait another year at least (time for deals with local shops to be setup).


----------



## Thaeon

animalsasleader said:


> J Laradas are much cheaper in the US. Also, I tried the ones in Japan wasn’t stoked on the set ups. I think your experience may have to do with string height and relief in the neck. It’s crazy how impactful a good set can be for a guitar. If you’ve ever been to NAMM you’ll know what I mean.



Rick Beato just did a video on the right set of strings. It was interesting to say the least.


----------



## AmoryDrive

I'll have to check that video out! Tosin and I were talking about the Horizon strings a bit, it's crazy how some places recommend something as large as a friggin 90 on a fan fret 8


----------



## StevenC

AmoryDrive said:


> I'll have to check that video out! Tosin and I were talking about the Horizon strings a bit, it's crazy how some places recommend something as large as a friggin 90 on a fan fret 8


I use an 84 on 28" for E. A 90 isn't that much bigger.


----------



## GunpointMetal

AmoryDrive said:


> I'll have to check that video out! Tosin and I were talking about the Horizon strings a bit, it's crazy how some places recommend something as large as a friggin 90 on a fan fret 8


Depending on the fan and what you like for regular low E, 90 isn't that huge at all. I see some people out here playing drop E on 27" scale instruments with 70-74 strings, and honestly it sounds like shit. More string noise than note, always sharp on the attack...


----------



## Lemonbaby

StevenC said:


> I use an 84 on 28" for E. A 90 isn't that much bigger.


4string basses use 105 for E at 34", so those are still veeery thin strings on a veeery short scale. And many bassists consider 32" scales too short for a good sounding low E...


----------



## StevenC

GunpointMetal said:


> Depending on the fan and what you like for regular low E, 90 isn't that huge at all. I see some people out here playing drop E on 27" scale instruments with 70-74 strings, and honestly it sounds like shit. More string noise than note, always sharp on the attack...


Honestly 73 or 74 is my favourite sounding string for E, it's just so incredibly difficult to play without, as you say, string noise and going sharp. Not nearly enough tension for me.

I use 84 because I can just about get it into an Edge III FX and it doesn't go too sharp, while having just enough tension without being too huge and losing the guitar sound.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lemonbaby said:


> 4string basses use 105 for E at 34", so those are still veeery thin strings on a veeery short scale. And many bassists consider 32" scales too short for a good sounding low E...



Apples and sprinkler heads.

Basses run big strings with massive cores for rigidity. This is because the goal is fundamental over transient. 

Guitars run relatively thinner strings with smaller, more flexible cores. The idea being that you want all those transients over a thumping fundamental. 

Look at a piccolo bass. Bass strings tuned an octave up still sounds like a bass and not a guitar. Compare that to something like an M8[0]M, long scale with guitar strings tuned nearly an octave down, yet still sounds like a guitar. 

Strings are more complex than gauge and length. The construction, especially core dimensions and ratio of core to wraps, can determine the final tonality. 

Folks throw giant guitar strings on extra long scale guitars seeking guitar tones. This is mostly a function of the limits of the materials and playing comfort. Longer scales introduce elasticity which players try to overcome with thicker strings, only steel and nickel will never be rigid enough to outpace the physics of adding linear elasticity. But longer scales help with note drift. It's a complex balance where one aspect needs to be ceded for another. Playability vs tone. Tone vs. drift.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

That was definitely one of those questions that I always kinda had but was never curious enough to look into in any capacity whatsoever.
Nice Ted Talk, Max.


----------



## Lemonbaby

MaxOfMetal said:


> Look at a piccolo bass. Bass strings tuned an octave up still sounds like a bass and not a guitar. Compare that to something like an M8[0]M, long scale with guitar strings tuned nearly an octave down, yet still sounds like a guitar.


The sound of extremely low tuned guitars is debatable (to keep it politically correct), but I see your point. Although twice the string tension also helps bassists avoiding the pitch issues that guitarists have to compensate with various methods...


----------



## c7spheres

MaxOfMetal said:


> .....
> Folks throw giant guitar strings on extra long scale guitars seeking guitar tones. This is mostly a function of the limits of the materials and playing comfort. Longer scales introduce elasticity which players try to overcome with thicker strings, only steel and nickel will never be rigid enough to outpace the physics of adding linear elasticity. But longer scales help with note drift. It's a complex balance where one aspect needs to be ceded for another. Playability vs tone. Tone vs. drift.


 
It took me a lot of attempts to find what worked for me. I still have some experiments I'd like to try at some point, but for years I've been using a 70 on my 25.5 scale at Bb. It's a thick core though, but because it's a stainless steel Boomer it offsets the thick core aspect while still giving that stability and fat fundmental of a thick core but the transients are sitll their because of thestainless. I'd recommend anyone to try them that's interested. Before that I used a simlar 74 but it had a double fine wind. It was a bit much for me but I could see going to that on a longer scale for sure.


----------



## Quiet Coil

This all speaks to part of why the 2228 is somewhat legendary. Aside from that sweet neck, the double locking setup lets you get away with just about any gauge you like. Anything heavier than a 74 for my low E sounded - well - no longer like a guitar (to me). Locked down it held tuning just fine though.

Yeah there’s the whole “going sharp when picking hard” thing, but I guess my attack isn’t that aggressive - never had a problem with it.

That said, I’m sold on multi-scale for ERGs so I suppose my post is pointless. ;p

If money ever comes my way again, definitely going to look into a WMI Larada 8.


----------



## AmoryDrive

This arrived at my door today!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

c7spheres said:


> It took me a lot of attempts to find what worked for me. I still have some experiments I'd like to try at some point, but for years I've been using a 70 on my 25.5 scale at Bb. It's a thick core though, but because it's a stainless steel Boomer it offsets the thick core aspect while still giving that stability and fat fundmental of a thick core but the transients are sitll their because of thestainless. I'd recommend anyone to try them that's interested. Before that I used a simlar 74 but it had a double fine wind. It was a bit much for me but I could see going to that on a longer scale for sure.



Most conventional guitar strings are a steel core with nickel steel wraps. The GHS Boomers are no exception, steel core with nickel plated steel wraps. Just like D'Addario EXL or EB Slinkys. 

The only stainless steel GHS strings are the Super Steels. 

From GHS' site:







The "NPS" stands for Nickel Plated Steel.


----------



## c7spheres

MaxOfMetal said:


> Most conventional guitar strings are a steel core with nickel steel wraps. The GHS Boomers are no exception, steel core with nickel plated steel wraps. Just like D'Addario EXL or EB Slinkys.
> 
> The only stainless steel GHS strings are the Super Steels.
> 
> From GHS' site:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "NPS" stands for Nickel Plated Steel.


- Weird. I've always had it in my head they were stainless wraps. I must have swtiched to the Super Steel 70's from the Boomers on my low when I went from 74 to 70 gauge. The rest are Boomer type and Burnished.
- I noticed they've changed the bright to mellow chart. The old one that looked like a rainbow color was a little different. Now they say Sub-Zero's are brighter than Boomers? That's definitely not my take on them. They're darker for sure. I've been using the Sub's on my high 2 strings because they are darker and less piercing and more mellow than plain steel. They even use to advertise them that way I'm pretty sure. The Burnished Nickel Rockers are more dull than the regular Nickel Rockers too, imo. They take the twang outta the plain G string and the Nickel Rockers are a little brighte but not like a plain steel. Weird stuff. I wonder if they changed their formula or something. What's really weird is that they say the Super Steels (their brightess string) is perfect for Jazz?...? I guess that could go either way. 
- Thanks for the info. Now I gotta go check all my custom sets to see if they sent me the wrong stuff. I think I switched to the Supers when going from 74 to 70 and thought they were a type of Boomer, but then they sent me a bunch of Dy-70's and I inadvertently switched back to Boomers when I ran out of the Supers. Now I gotta reorder the Supers again. Ugh.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

AmoryDrive said:


> This arrived at my door today!


Well hot damn since no one else has asked, how is it?


----------



## Pwntus

AmoryDrive said:


> This arrived at my door today!


That looks so nice! Please give us your thoughts! I managed to snag one of the Chalk 8 strings and im eagerly waiting to get mine shipped though that will probably take quite a while before its in my hands.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

AmoryDrive said:


> This arrived at my door today!



Looks great!! Congrats!! First impressions??

How long did it take to ship from the moment you ordered?


----------



## yngve knudsen

When will the yellow one or any other larada 8 be back up on the abasiconcept site for 3,3 k usd or less?


----------



## AmoryDrive

glassmoon0fo said:


> Well hot damn since no one else has asked, how is it?


As primarily a 6 string player, it does take a hot minute to get used to the closer string spacing. But beyond that I don't really see myself playing another 8 and that's mainly because I have wrist problems so I need fan fret on that many strings amd the asymmetrical neck is a HUGE perk.

As far as playability goes it's fantastic. Good low action, no buzz, about what you'd expect. I've been trying to learn how to thump and I think the tighter string spacing makes it a little easier some to degree? Or maybe Tosin left some mojo on it who knows lol

It's also SUPER light with the basswood body and is super well balanced. You could balance it on your index finger at the 24th fret neck/body connection perfectly. 

I could go on and on but the short of it is the guitar just stays out of your way. Definitely one of the "super cars" of guitars right now. Misha wasnt too far off calling it an Aston lol


----------



## glassmoon0fo

AmoryDrive said:


> As primarily a 6 string player, it does take a hot minute to get used to the closer string spacing. But beyond that I don't really see myself playing another 8 and that's mainly because I have wrist problems so I need fan fret on that many strings amd the asymmetrical neck is a HUGE perk.
> 
> As far as playability goes it's fantastic. Good low action, no buzz, about what you'd expect. I've been trying to learn how to thump and I think the tighter string spacing makes it a little easier some to degree? Or maybe Tosin left some mojo on it who knows lol
> 
> It's also SUPER light with the basswood body and is super well balanced. You could balance it on your index finger at the 24th fret neck/body connection perfectly.
> 
> I could go on and on but the short of it is the guitar just stays out of your way. Definitely one of the "super cars" of guitars right now. Misha wasnt too far off calling it an Aston lol



That's killer dude, because the root of my particular brand of gear whoring is to buy gear that I don't have to think about. I have a US build coming in a few months hopefully, but soon as these come up in stock again I can see myself grabbing a Chartreuse one, that color and that wenge neck are sooo nice.


----------



## AmoryDrive

glassmoon0fo said:


> That's killer dude, because the root of my particular brand of gear whoring is to buy gear that I don't have to think about. I have a US build coming in a few months hopefully, but soon as these come up in stock again I can see myself grabbing a Chartreuse one, that color and that wenge neck are sooo nice.


Exactly! I dont really have a "shredder" guitar (mostly Gibson and Balaguers) and it's not something I do a lot, but I've been getting more professional gigs lately so ive been needing to round out the selection. This will be getting a lot of use on a musical I'm helping develop with a label and having something rock solid with a ton of versatility that just stays out of my way is exactly what I need to be able to work effectively


----------



## StevenC

yngve knudsen said:


> When will the yellow one or any other larada 8 be back up on the abasiconcept site for 3,3 k usd or less?


March apparently.


----------



## Freakyfredreaky

AmoryDrive said:


> As primarily a 6 string player, it does take a hot minute to get used to the closer string spacing. But beyond that I don't really see myself playing another 8 and that's mainly because I have wrist problems so I need fan fret on that many strings amd the asymmetrical neck is a HUGE perk.
> 
> As far as playability goes it's fantastic. Good low action, no buzz, about what you'd expect. I've been trying to learn how to thump and I think the tighter string spacing makes it a little easier some to degree? Or maybe Tosin left some mojo on it who knows lol
> 
> It's also SUPER light with the basswood body and is super well balanced. You could balance it on your index finger at the 24th fret neck/body connection perfectly.
> 
> I could go on and on but the short of it is the guitar just stays out of your way. Definitely one of the "super cars" of guitars right now. Misha wasnt too far off calling it an Aston lol
> 
> 
> Not sure I'm doing this right to ask you more... But is the neck asymmetrical? I read somewhere or dreamt they were lol


----------



## AmoryDrive

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Looks great!! Congrats!! First impressions??
> 
> How long did it take to ship from the moment you ordered?


Oh as far as how long, I bought it Jan 16 at NAMM and let them use it for the weekend then send it to me so once it shipped, about a week


----------



## Hollowway

Wait, the string spacing is tighter than normal. That bums me out if that’s the case, because I just cannot deal with narrow string spacing. @AmoryDrive do you have a nut width measurement on that?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

That has been a big part of these for years, tighter string spacing so they’re easier for sid string players to get into


----------



## c7spheres

Hollowway said:


> Wait, the string spacing is tighter than normal. That bums me out if that’s the case, because I just cannot deal with narrow string spacing. @AmoryDrive do you have a nut width measurement on that?


 I heard somwhere about a Daemoness with a 50mm on a 7 string. That peaked my interest. That extra 2mm would probably help quite a bit for my fingers I think. I'm sure those are well worth it but the wait time I just can't do right now. I'd love to see more 7's with a wider spacing though.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I think daemoness is 50mm to 70mm. So an extra mm either side all the way up the neck which allows larger than normal string spacing.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Hollowway said:


> Wait, the string spacing is tighter than normal. That bums me out if that’s the case, because I just cannot deal with narrow string spacing. @AmoryDrive do you have a nut width measurement on that?



Tighter than a 6 string (that I'm used to) yes. I'll find a way to measure it when I get home from work for ya


----------



## Thaeon

I like tighter string spacing. But I also don't have Steve Vai hands either. So I guess that makes sense.


----------



## Frostbite

"Are Abasi guitars racist against fat people with fat fingers? More at 11"


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Off topic and of vital importance: is the thread title still relevant? Couldn’t we just change it to “Abasi guitars”?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Off topic and of vital importance: is the thread title still relevant? Couldn’t we just change it to “Abasi guitars”?



You mean _concepts_. 

Yeah, you're probably right.


----------



## AmoryDrive

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Off topic and of vital importance: is the thread title still relevant? Couldn’t we just change it to “Abasi guitars”?


I mean, we could. The title summarizes the first, like, 120 pages so well it should almost be preserved for anthropological reasons


----------



## MaxOfMetal

AmoryDrive said:


> I mean, we could. The title summarizes the first, like, 120 pages so well it should almost be preserved for anthropological reasons



It shall live on in our hearts...and the Internet Archive. 

Don't worry, I'll think of something petty when...if...this goes to shit again.


----------



## klaim

About the string spacing, I suppose it can help. I'm just worried that it might make thumping harder. I have some basics of thumping on my TAM10, still need work on precision and sound, but if the spacing is closer I don't know if I can play the strings truly independently right now.


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> It shall live on in our hearts...and the Internet Archive.
> 
> Don't worry, I'll think of something petty when...if...this goes to shit again.



Solid OEM dropping the likelihood of it, at least delivery complaint-wise. But maybe he'll gift us Mr. Freeze hepatitis burst to complain about.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Hey! I hate the new name but it makes sense so I’m not gonna complain


----------



## AmoryDrive

String Spacing


----------



## cardinal

That's about same string spread at the nut as my Floyd 8 guitars.


----------



## AmoryDrive

cardinal said:


> That's about same string spread at the nut as my Floyd 8 guitars.


To be fair, I haven't had an 8 in ten years and I'm used to Gibsons. I may just be a big dumb and it's not actually all that different lol


----------



## Randy

I like the spacing from the F# (or however you have it tuned) to the fretboard edge. I've seen some 8s get a little buzzy rattling off the fret bevel.


----------



## Pietjepieter

String spacing is quite the same as on mine overload 8 string, does not look strange to me at all.

Love that yellow one, I think it is one of the best looking Larada's out their.
Really hopping their will be a WMI one whit this kind of look.

Good think that in the end it seems like the guitars are coming available, bad think is that my favorite threat title now is gone


----------



## cardinal

AmoryDrive said:


> To be fair, I haven't had an 8 in ten years and I'm used to Gibsons. I may just be a big dumb and it's not actually all that different lol



I think that it's the standard 8-string spacing but it is a bit narrower than typical 6-string spacing. 

Some 8-strings have a 60mm nut that brings the string spacing closer to that of a 6-string. But most seem to have settled in around 55mm.


----------



## AmoryDrive

cardinal said:


> I think that it's the standard 8-string spacing but it is a bit narrower than typical 6-string spacing.
> 
> Some 8-strings have a 60mm nut that brings the string spacing closer to that of a 6-string. But most seem to have settled in around 55mm.


Ah good, for a moment I was worried that I just sucked at guitar when muscle memory missed the strings

....eh probably still true lol


----------



## Thaeon

Space between strings on standard string spacing is about 1/4". So this is pretty standard.


----------



## SpaceDock

AmoryDrive said:


> This arrived at my door today!



is there a gap along the body/neck joint on the upper side that I am seeing the orange cab through or is that just the image?


----------



## AmoryDrive

SpaceDock said:


> is there a gap along the body/neck joint on the upper side that I am seeing the orange cab through or is that just the image?


On these there is a small gap, yes


----------



## cardinal

With a typical bolt on, the fit you need to worry about is how cleanly the screws can pull the heel of the neck against the floor of the neck pocket. That's where all the energy is going. The fit along the sides of the pocket is just for alignment. I had an J-Custom with pretty large gaps along the sides of the pocket (several sheets of paper could fit), and that thing sustained forever. I can't see how this would be any different.

You might not even want a tight fit along the upper bout, since there's no screw pulling the two pieces together along the upper bout, the two pieces might not be vibrating identically, causing some loss of energy if they were forced to clank together as the notes ring out.


----------



## AmoryDrive

cardinal said:


> With a typical bolt on, the fit you need to worry about is how cleanly the screws can pull the heel of the neck against the floor of the neck pocket. That's where all the energy is going. The fit along the sides of the pocket is just for alignment. I had an J-Custom with pretty large gaps along the sides of the pocket (several sheets of paper could fit), and that thing sustained forever. I can't see how this would be any different.
> 
> You might not even want a tight fit along the upper bout, since there's no screw pulling the two pieces together along the upper bout, the two pieces might not be vibrating identically, causing some loss of energy if they were forced to clank together as the notes ring out.


Yeah it's not really an issue imo, though this is solved on the WMI ones. I'm curious if the J Laradas are an older revision and the WMI version will be the one used going forward


----------



## Mr. Manager

Hey all, new user here. I'll be in the market for a new 8 string soon and I've been following the Larada since it was announced a couple years ago. Recently I've played some Kiesels and Ibanez but didn't find much I liked until I tried a Strandberg.

Is there anyone here that has played a Boden and a Larada that can offer some insight into each of them? I really liked the endurneck and I've heard the Larada also has an asymmetric neck profile.

I was originally set on a headless 8 string but I love the look of the Larada and I don't mind waiting for the WMI version if it's much better than a Boden.


----------



## Avedas

The endurneck and Larada asymmetrical neck are completely different beasts. I'd say don't blind buy one but I guess there's not really another option in this case.


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah endurnecks are really chunky aside from the trapezoidal shape.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Gut shot. Was checking out if I could fit a fishman battery/charger


----------



## KnightBrolaire

AmoryDrive said:


> Gut shot. Was checking out if I could fit a fishman battery/charger
> View attachment 77177


just buy some rechargeable batteries.


----------



## spudmunkey

Have rechargeable 9V stopped sucking? Honestly, havent looked into them in, like, 12 years.


----------



## Soya

A small lithium pack is really cheap and lasts very long on a charge. Don't have to pay huge bucks for a Fishman pack. The mah escapes me at the moment but the pack I got for my Schecter is not much bigger than a 9v and with a few hours a eek playing I think it'll last about 8 months per charge? And was $12.


----------



## AmoryDrive

I'd just prefer to have the usb recharging tbh


----------



## KnightBrolaire

spudmunkey said:


> Have rechargeable 9V stopped sucking? Honestly, havent looked into them in, like, 12 years.


yes. I have some lithium ion batteries that I bought with a charger that last a looooooong time for my fluence loaded guitar. Plus I didn't have to retrofit the rear cavity cover with the fishman charger.
For under 20$ I can't complain.
Tenergy TN141 2 Bay 9V Smart Charger with 4 pcs Centura Low Self-Discharge 9V NiMH Rechargeable Batterie


----------



## Señor Voorhees

AmoryDrive said:


> I'd just prefer to have the usb recharging tbh


I hate weirdly expensive proprietary things like that. You spend huge bucks on something that only holds a good charge for a few years, then you have to buy a new proprietary thing if they even make them once yours shits the bed. 9v is always a better bet, as they've been a thing forever and will always be a thing. Maybe I'm just an old man shouting at clouds, but I'd prefer to have both options. I don't have faith that proprietary weirdness will be viable in ten years, when I know 9 volts will be around in 50 years.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Señor Voorhees said:


> I hate weirdly expensive proprietary things like that. You spend huge bucks on something that only holds a good charge for a few years, then you have to buy a new proprietary thing if they even make them once yours shits the bed. 9v is always a better bet, as they've been a thing forever and will always be a thing. Maybe I'm just an old man shouting at clouds, but I'd prefer to have both options. I don't have faith that proprietary weirdness will be viable in ten years, when I know 9 volts will be around in 50 years.


Most phones used MiniUSB like 10 years ago and now those chargers are harder to come by since the change to MicroUSB and more recently USB Type-C.
The rechargeable packs are cool and I love new tech but reliability and availability really side with 9-volts in this case.


----------



## AmoryDrive

They're not really all that proprietary at all lol Got two BiLT guitars with 3 onboard pedals plus a midi XY pad that require more power than you can get from a 9V battery throughout a show. Its all just power storage and delivery lol For my use a USB rechargeable tends to make more sense than having to bulk buy 9Vs lol


----------



## Señor Voorhees

LeviathanKiller said:


> Most phones used MiniUSB like 10 years ago and now those chargers are harder to come by since the change to MicroUSB and more recently USB Type-C.
> The rechargeable packs are cool and I love new tech but reliability and availability really side with 9-volts in this case.



This is correct. On top of that, batteries do degrade over time. The packs are super fucking cool for the moment, but in ten years I'm betting tech will change to the point where you won't be able to buy new ones... Which isn't the end of the world, since you can always have a guitar routed for 9v, but I'd bet big money that you won't be able to get the battery packs like they have now in 10 years.

edit:



AmoryDrive said:


> They're not really all that proprietary at all lol Got two BiLT guitars with 3 onboard pedals plus a midi XY pad that require more power than you can get from a 9V battery throughout a show. Its all just power storage and delivery lol For my use a USB rechargeable tends to make more sense than having to bulk buy 9Vs lol



Talk to me in 5-10 years, we'll see if tech doesn't evolve and they still make these niche products. lol


----------



## AmoryDrive

Battery and power delivery isn't gonna change, just the connector which is easy enough to switch lol It's hardly niche


----------



## StevenC

Señor Voorhees said:


> This is correct. On top of that, batteries do degrade over time. The packs are super fucking cool for the moment, but in ten years I'm betting tech will change to the point where you won't be able to buy new ones... Which isn't the end of the world, since you can always have a guitar routed for 9v, but I'd bet big money that you won't be able to get the battery packs like they have now in 10 years.
> 
> edit:
> 
> 
> 
> Talk to me in 5-10 years, we'll see if tech doesn't evolve and they still make these niche products. lol


The worst case scenario here is that you desolder a couple of cables and solder on the new battery pack if Fluence is still a thing, or a massively abundant 9V clip and go back to those, right?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

This is a non problem


----------



## jephjacques

the threaded inserts are a nice touch


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jephjacques said:


> the threaded inserts are a nice touch


should be the industry standard imo. wood screws belong in decks, not on guitars


----------



## Randy

jephjacques said:


> the threaded inserts are a nice touch





KnightBrolaire said:


> should be the industry standard imo. wood screws belong in decks, not on guitars



Meh. I've had more trouble with anchors than not. Necks seldom are seated perfectly flat and tight in the pocket when you go to put the neck on and inserts get cross threaded pretty easily.

I've had some real nightmares with anchors.

1.) I've had them cross thread while coming out, make it out of the recess but not come loose from the machine screw, so they spin and ream out the hole so that they no longer lock.

2.) I've had anchors back out along with the machine screw all the way through the body, blowing out the hole through the body and causing paint damage.

3.) I've had anchors thread into the neck seemingly straight but it turns out they were cockeyed, so that machine screw tighens fully and seats flat(ish) but none of the other screws will actually bite into their respective anchors. Or they do at odd angles and you have heel gaps, so you have to overtighten them to get it flat and you likely make one or all of the anchors sloppy in their hole.

4.) I've had machine screws cross thread into their anchors halfway through, so you're turning the screw but it's actually driving he anchor further into the hole. You get to the "bottom" but the screw isn't flush and if you keep going, it can bulge the fretboard or in extreme case, unglue it.

5.) I've had literally dozens of anchors just flat out sheer or fall apart when backing them out or screwing them in.

Wood screws are perfect fine. Ideally they should be super course with the oversized flanged/finished head and a torx. I think those were what Ran was using.


----------



## bostjan

I've had screws sheer off in those threaded insert "anchors," as well, which is a bigger problem for me than whatever problems they solve. There are, however, times when they are more appropriate to use.


----------



## GraemeH

Randy said:


> u get to the "bottom" but the screw isn't flush and if you keep going, it can bulge the fretboard or in extreme case, unglue it.



Literally had this 2 days ago with my 2nd guitar build. Driving a torx bolt into t-nuts under the fretboard to bolt the neck on. "Crack" noise, look and see a gap between the fretboard and the neck it was glued to and the t-nut has pushed up because the bolt didn't thread into the underside of it properly. Time to stop trying to be fancy...


----------



## spudmunkey

Thank you for your confirmations of my suspicions. I've always hesitated with using threaded inserts for anything load-bearing on larger items I've designed/specified, because once those fail, you're out of options except drilling out the huge hole, plugging, and re-drilling. At least with screws, you can just go up a size or two with the screws a time or two, and screws work fine if you're not doing it frequently.

On something as light duty as cavity covers, though, it seems like an appropriate place to use them, especially if there's a consumable (the battery) kept inside. I've had few issues with inserts that size...and the ones I did have were mostly my fault due to using too-soft brass ones, and driving them into incorrectly-sized pre-drilled holes into too-hard wood.


----------



## bostjan

spudmunkey said:


> Thank you for your confirmations of my suspicions. I've always hesitated with using threaded inserts for anything load-bearing on larger items I've designed/specified, because once those fail, you're out of options except drilling out the huge hole, plugging, and re-drilling. At least with screws, you can just go up a size or two with the screws a time or two, and screws work fine if you're not doing it frequently.
> 
> On something as light duty as cavity covers, though, it seems like an appropriate place to use them, especially if there's a consumable (the battery) kept inside. I've had few issues with inserts that size...and the ones I did have were mostly my fault due to using too-soft brass ones, and driving them into incorrectly-sized pre-drilled holes into too-hard wood.


Yes, but, then again, if it were up to me, I would opt for a magnetic cavity cover, a la, Dingwall. It seems like the best option.

All of this talk about USB micro charge ports and so forth, I agree that it will eventually become obsolete, but is easy enough to upgrade, as long as it's not purposely made to be difficult to reverse engineer. A lot of micro USB charge ports I have on older equipment have already needed to be replaced. I don't think it's really a great option to begin with for that reason. USB-C is more robust and probably has a good ten years or more before it gets fully replaced with something else.


----------



## spudmunkey

Oh, yeah...magnetic, all the way.

Weeeeeell....while USB-C is more robust on paper, I've been dissapointed in my own in-the-wild experience. 2 years ago, we put USB-A charges on 1000 people's desks at one of my clients' office build-outs. No issues.
About 8 months ago, we put the same unit on 360 people desks. The same product, just updated with USB-C...and we must've had 20 issues so far. The jack on my Note 9 is feeling looser than my Note 5 ever did, and I had that much longer. yes, still a small samples size, and merely anecdotal...

dat reversibility, tho...

I've gone to wireless charging more and more, if only to reduce wear and tear on the connections. Imagine a guitar case with a built-in wireless charger, that could charge the guitar while it's inside. Although...now we're asking people to trust the lithium ion batteries locked in a box with their precious instruments...and wirless charging is also less efficient, slower, and hotter (and likely worse for the batteries).

*sigh*


----------



## AmoryDrive

Maybe this guy was onto something....


----------



## bostjan

spudmunkey said:


> Oh, yeah...magnetic, all the way.
> 
> Weeeeeell....while USB-C is more robust on paper, I've been dissapointed in my own in-the-wild experience. 2 years ago, we put USB-A charges on 1000 people's desks at one of my clients' office build-outs. No issues.
> About 8 months ago, we put the same unit on 360 people desks. The same product, just updated with USB-C...and we must've had 20 issues so far. The jack on my Note 9 is feeling looser than my Note 5 ever did, and I had that much longer. yes, still a small samples size, and merely anecdotal...
> 
> dat reversibility, tho...
> 
> I've gone to wireless charging more and more, if only to reduce wear and tear on the connections. Imagine a guitar case with a built-in wireless charger, that could charge the guitar while it's inside. Although...now we're asking people to trust the lithium ion batteries locked in a box with their precious instruments...and wirless charging is also less efficient, slower, and hotter (and likely worse for the batteries).
> 
> *sigh*



Wireless charging is definitely a lot less efficient and I'm worried about it's long-term robustness, but just about every connector wears out eventually, except those things they use for Dewalt power tools.



AmoryDrive said:


> Maybe this guy was onto something....
> View attachment 77207



Electric guitar is just guitar + electricity ... aww no animated gif... oh well


----------



## spudmunkey

bostjan said:


> Wireless charging is definitely a lot less efficient and I'm worried about it's long-term robustness, but just about every connector wears out eventually, except those things they use for Dewalt power tools.



...but only their 20v(really 18v). I've already broken the 12v on my laser level. I've only had it for like 2 years, and have babied it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Randy said:


> Meh. I've had more trouble with anchors than not. Necks seldom are seated perfectly flat and tight in the pocket when you go to put the neck on and inserts get cross threaded pretty easily.
> 
> I've had some real nightmares with anchors.
> 
> 1.) I've had them cross thread while coming out, make it out of the recess but not come loose from the machine screw, so they spin and ream out the hole so that they no longer lock.
> 
> 2.) I've had anchors back out along with the machine screw all the way through the body, blowing out the hole through the body and causing paint damage.
> 
> 3.) I've had anchors thread into the neck seemingly straight but it turns out they were cockeyed, so that machine screw tighens fully and seats flat(ish) but none of the other screws will actually bite into their respective anchors. Or they do at odd angles and you have heel gaps, so you have to overtighten them to get it flat and you likely make one or all of the anchors sloppy in their hole.
> 
> 4.) I've had machine screws cross thread into their anchors halfway through, so you're turning the screw but it's actually driving he anchor further into the hole. You get to the "bottom" but the screw isn't flush and if you keep going, it can bulge the fretboard or in extreme case, unglue it.
> 
> 5.) I've had literally dozens of anchors just flat out sheer or fall apart when backing them out or screwing them in.
> 
> Wood screws are perfect fine. Ideally they should be super course with the oversized flanged/finished head and a torx. I think those were what Ran was using.


Ehh I've never had anywhere near as many failures with threaded inserts as I've had with wood screws. But yeah if I could regularly source torx head screws, that would work fine. Torx>>>>>>> any other bit ime


----------



## Lemonbaby

Threaded inserts are the way to go for bolt on necks, everything else is just an improvised solution chosen for lower cost. Along with that: matching Torx M5 screws. 

Please note that this is not an opinion, but the objective truth.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Guys rechargeable 9v batteries with built in usb chargers exist. 

literally the same tech as the Fishman battery in a 9v casing.


----------



## Thaeon

Am I weird in wanting the least amount of technology prone to becoming obsolete on a guitar as possible?


----------



## spudmunkey

KnightBrolaire said:


> ]Guys rechargeable 9v batteries with built in usb chargers exist.
> 
> literally the same tech as the Fishman battery in a 9v casing.



Don't they generally have much lower capacity to make room for the built-in charger? At least that's how it is for the AA that have the same feature.


----------



## cardinal

lol Like any of us are keeping a guitar for 10 years before selling it to buy a shiny new thing instead.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Thaeon said:


> Am I weird in wanting the least amount of technology prone to becoming obsolete on a guitar as possible?


Passive pickups only.


----------



## Thaeon

BlackMastodon said:


> Passive pickups only.



I like actives for some things. But I'm fine with a 9V or some other adaptation for a battery pack. But I don't want charging ports in the guitar. I'll pull the pack and charge it.


----------



## diagrammatiks

spudmunkey said:


> Don't they generally have much lower capacity to make room for the built-in charger? At least that's how it is for the AA that have the same feature.



it depends on the battery chemistry. Most alkaline 9v are 400-500mah. 
The lipo 9v i use are 800mah. They are simply more efficient then akalines. 

the biggest issue is that a lipo is actually going to be 8.4 volts for most of its capacity. But, the Fishman battery is the same thing. It puts out 8.4 volts as well. 

the biggest difference with the Fishman is that the charger is a regulated charger and will regulate the voltage coming out of the battery. So it will experience less voltage drop and be safer to charge. 

But an alkaline 9v will drop way before its total capacity as well.


----------



## Kaura

Psst... I'll let you guys in on a little secret.

There's pickups that don't require batteries. Crazy, I know!


----------



## xzacx

Kaura said:


> Psst... I'll let you guys in on a little secret.
> 
> There's pickups that don't require batteries. Crazy, I know!



Also, we've been getting by just fine using regular 9V batteries in EMGs for roughly 40 years. (Which, unlike Fishmans, aren't godawful sounding—but that's another discussion.)


----------



## spudmunkey

xzacx said:


> Also, we've been getting by just fine using regular 9V batteries in EMGs for roughly 40 years. (Which, unlike Fishmans, aren't godawful sounding)



...since when?


----------



## Thaeon

xzacx said:


> Also, we've been getting by just fine using regular 9V batteries in EMGs for roughly 40 years. (Which, unlike Fishmans, aren't godawful sounding—but that's another discussion.)



I actually like almost all other active pickups better than EMGs.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

xzacx said:


> Also, we've been getting by just fine using regular 9V batteries in EMGs for roughly 40 years. (Which, unlike Fishmans, aren't godawful sounding—but that's another discussion.)


----------



## Frostbite

xzacx said:


> Also, we've been getting by just fine using regular 9V batteries in EMGs for roughly 40 years. (Which, unlike Fishmans, aren't godawful sounding—but that's another discussion.)


----------



## diagrammatiks

xzacx said:


> Also, we've been getting by just fine using regular 9V batteries in EMGs for roughly 40 years. (Which, unlike Fishmans, aren't godawful sounding—but that's another discussion.)



yikes. don't judge everything on the moderns.


----------



## DudeManBrother

I bet it would be easy to make a stereo audio cable that sends the pickup signal to the tip, and feeds 9v on the ring.


Then make a small pedal with the stereo input jack, a mono guitar out, and hook the 9v lead directly to the 9v power input. 


Then you wouldn’t need batteries at all. Your pickups would be powered when you plug in. Just run your regular guitar cable from the amp to the pedal, plug in the pedal with your pedal power supply, and hook up the stereo cable between the pedal and guitar.


----------



## Zhysick

DudeManBrother said:


> View attachment 77234
> 
> I bet it would be easy to make a stereo audio cable that sends the pickup signal to the tip, and feeds 9v on the ring.
> View attachment 77233
> 
> Then make a small pedal with the stereo input jack, a mono guitar out, and hook the 9v lead directly to the 9v power input.
> View attachment 77235
> 
> Then you wouldn’t need batteries at all. Your pickups would be powered when you plug in. Just run your regular guitar cable from the amp to the pedal, plug in the pedal with your pedal power supply, and hook up the stereo cable between the pedal and guitar.
> View attachment 77236



Like this?
https://www.emgpickups.com/es-918.html


----------



## Fred the Shred

An exceptional solution for people using wireless systems in particular!


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

My J Larada has shipped last week and so far great communication with Abasi Concepts. 

Constructive suggestion: Don’t use UPS for international orders. Their customs brokerage process is crap, you need to send them an email or call them to have your stuff clear customs. This may bring additional delays. Moreover, their brokerage services are overpriced. FedEx is waaaay better IMO.

Anyhow, as I said, great communication and customer service from Ivan thus far. 

Planned delivery is next week. When my tendinitis goes away I’ll post a NGD video.


----------



## GunpointMetal

That's weird that FedEx is better at international shipping. I'll pay extra to have them never touch a package of mine.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Far prefer DHL for international myself.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

It's a crap shoot with international carriers. There are just so many variables: destination, customs, type of freight, how direct a route it's taking, time of year, etc. 

Fill out your paperwork right and hope the customs guy is having a good day.


----------



## DudeManBrother

Zhysick said:


> Like this?
> https://www.emgpickups.com/es-918.html


Son of bitch! They stole my idea quickly! Yeah that’s literally exactly what I pictured in my head (minus the graphics. Mine would be bare enclosure and Sharpie ) I could still build it for under $40 with a stereo cable:


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

diagrammatiks said:


> yikes. don't judge everything on the moderns.



I have Fluence Moderns in my Strandberg Singularity and they sound fine. What do you dislike about them (besides common gripes with actives).

@MaxOfMetal : yeah I agree. That being said, requiring residential customers to send brokerage information through email for a shipment from the US to Canada is a bit much IMO.


----------



## diagrammatiks

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I have Fluence Moderns in my Strandberg Singularity and they sound fine. What do you dislike about them (besides common gripes with actives).
> 
> @MaxOfMetal : yeah I agree. That being said, requiring residential customers to send brokerage information through email for a shipment from the US to Canada is a bit much IMO.



Nothing. I’ve got a pair of moderns, classics, and abasis. Just think the moderns are the least good out of all of them I’ve tried and they are the ones that come in a lot of guitars so it’s what most people think of.


----------



## NCeuRign

Two random questions:

normally I hate websites that auto-play music (especially when I'm at work) but anyone know if the Abasi concepts website soundtrack is available elsewhere?
I'm interested in a USA Larada 8 when they become available. The Js say they come in a shipping box or a bag. Any option of a hard case? Or what are people using?
I realise these are questions for Tosin but someone else might know the answers and others might be interested in the answers too.


----------



## klaim

@NCeuRign The music on the website is the track "On Impulse" of the first Animals As Leaders self-tilted album. You can find it on all platforms.


----------



## AmoryDrive

DudeManBrother said:


> View attachment 77234
> 
> I bet it would be easy to make a stereo audio cable that sends the pickup signal to the tip, and feeds 9v on the ring.
> View attachment 77233
> 
> Then make a small pedal with the stereo input jack, a mono guitar out, and hook the 9v lead directly to the 9v power input.
> View attachment 77235
> 
> Then you wouldn’t need batteries at all. Your pickups would be powered when you plug in. Just run your regular guitar cable from the amp to the pedal, plug in the pedal with your pedal power supply, and hook up the stereo cable between the pedal and guitar.
> View attachment 77236



BiLT includes this very pedal with their Relevators with the built in pedals. For live use with wireless we actually made a TRS cable that splits between the wireless pack and a 9v barrel connector. We have Pedaltrain Voltos attached to our straps for wireless power!


----------



## glassmoon0fo

klaim said:


> @NCeuRign The music on the website is the track "On Impulse" of the first Animals As Leaders self-tilted album. You can find it on all platforms.



On Impulse is a prog instant classic in my eyes, masterpiece of a composition


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

glassmoon0fo said:


> On Impulse is a prog instant classic in my eyes, masterpiece of a composition



There's a guy on YouTube that did a piano interpretation. It was fantastic.


----------



## cip 123

I don't mean to clog this thread up or derail but just since Abasi seemed open to finishing options I figure I'll throw another idea in for the future since I think it looks kinda cool, and it was sort of in keeping with the "supercar/racecar" vibe. Also this build is just for fun, I mean no disrespect  @animalsasleader

Didn't ever intend to post more of this in this thread, or cross any forum rules by doing so I just think it's a cool look for the Larada.


----------



## Kaura

Abasi Concepts is the No Man's Sky of guitars. First they gave promises, then they gave shit, then they gave good shit. Hell, from the beginning I hated these guitars just because of the design but slowly but surely I'm starting to GAS for one.


----------



## Thaeon

Kaura said:


> Abasi Concepts is the No Man's Sky of guitars. First they gave promises, then they gave shit, then they gave good shit. Hell, from the beginning I hated these guitars just because of the design but slowly but surely I'm starting to GAS for one.



I'm having the same conundrum. Though, I think my incoming Oni will quench GAS for a while. At least for guitars.


----------



## prlgmnr

Kaura said:


> Abasi Concepts is the No Man's Sky of guitars. First they gave promises, then they gave shit, then they gave good shit. Hell, from the beginning I hated these guitars just because of the design but slowly but surely I'm starting to GAS for one.


Does this make Decibel Guitars Star Citizen?


----------



## Kaura

prlgmnr said:


> Does this make Decibel Guitars Star Citizen?



I don't know what is Decibel Guitars but I hope Fender puts out Skyrim 2.


----------



## Thaeon

Kaura said:


> I don't know what is Decibel Guitars but I hope Fender puts out Skyrim 2.



Lots of build up and no delivery basically.


----------



## kisielk

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> My J Larada has shipped last week and so far great communication with Abasi Concepts.
> 
> Constructive suggestion: Don’t use UPS for international orders. Their customs brokerage process is crap, you need to send them an email or call them to have your stuff clear customs. This may bring additional delays. Moreover, their brokerage services are overpriced. FedEx is waaaay better IMO.
> 
> Anyhow, as I said, great communication and customer service from Ivan thus far.
> 
> Planned delivery is next week. When my tendinitis goes away I’ll post a NGD video.


It depends on what level of UPS service you use. The higher levels of UPS have no brokerage fees or additional customs clearance process. Usually it's only about 50% more than the standard shipping, and it can be well worth it since the custom clearance charges can be proportional to the item value otherwise.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Buddy just got his 6 string, here it is alongside the 8 custom I had ordered and he bought when it was completed


----------



## cip 123

Man it looks so sick in Ash!


----------



## SpaceDock

I don’t want to be a bummer, but the design is just not good unless it is headless. The giant upper bout does not make sense to me functionally in this version.


----------



## SpaceDock

Double post


----------



## xzacx

SpaceDock said:


> I don’t want to be a bummer, but the design is just not good unless it is headless. The giant upper bout does not make sense to me functionally in this version.


Please explain how the upper bout makes sense functionally headless.


----------



## bzhang9

xzacx said:


> Please explain how the upper bout makes sense functionally headless.



because headless has a much lighter neck and needs weight shifted towards the neck... the abasi looks like neck dive city


----------



## SpaceDock

^ yes. I don’t want to be not allowed to have thumb over but also the design makes sense if there is a very long, thin, and wide neck that needs to stability and an extra small body that needs more balance because of chambering. Having a solid body, typical neck, and headstock just doesn’t jive for me. Looks like it was half there.


----------



## Hollowway

kisielk said:


> It depends on what level of UPS service you use. The higher levels of UPS have no brokerage fees or additional customs clearance process. Usually it's only about 50% more than the standard shipping, and it can be well worth it since the custom clearance charges can be proportional to the item value otherwise.


Wait, how do higher levels of UPS service get you out of customs fees? Do they pay the government directly on your behalf?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Wait, how do higher levels of UPS service get you out of customs fees? Do they pay the government directly on your behalf?



I believe they negotiate a set price from the destination country and pass that on in the higher rate. It makes sense for certain goods.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Kaura said:


> I don't know what is Decibel Guitars but I hope Fender puts out Skyrim 2.


Decibel is the one who originally designed the Larada from scratch for Tosin.



Thaeon said:


> Lots of build up and no delivery basically.


Yep, sounds like Abasi Concepts in a nutshell.


----------



## narad

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Decibel is the one who originally designed the Larada from scratch for Tosin.



I had heard rumors of involvement, but is this confirmed fact?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> I had heard rumors of involvement, but is this confirmed fact?



Yes.

Hence the pseudo-Intrepid headstock.

Though my understanding it was more of a collaborative effort, not just Darren.

EDIT: https://darrenwilson.com/abasi-guitars/


----------



## narad

This is pretty cool:


----------



## cip 123

SpaceDock said:


> I don’t want to be a bummer, but the design is just not good unless it is headless. The giant upper bout does not make sense to me functionally in this version.


I think it's actually a great design aesthetically, some details could be better but they're being fixed.



bzhang9 said:


> because headless has a much lighter neck and needs weight shifted towards the neck... the abasi looks like neck dive city


Only a lighter neck if you use light woods. You can easily build a headless with a heavy neck. Even if you have neck dive you can solve it on most instruments by moving the strap button. 



SpaceDock said:


> ^ yes. I don’t want to be not allowed to have thumb over but also the design makes sense if there is a very long, thin, and wide neck that needs to stability and an extra small body that needs more balance because of chambering. Having a solid body, typical neck, and headstock just doesn’t jive for me. Looks like it was half there.


Sorry but what?

It sounds like you just don't want a single cut and if so headless or otherwise it's not going to make a difference. I can give you various insights to building one of these, what would be easy, what changes should and could be made. But headless won't fix the fact its a singlecut. And headless doesn't automatically fix neck dive, the design however does counteract neck dive given that it's so easy to play in classical position.


----------



## SpaceDock

^ a single cut that the upper bout goes all the way to the 12 fret. I think if it went to the 15/17 like on most single cuts the body would be too small the cause tremendous neck dive unless.....it was headless. Again though, just my opinion. I would definitely rock one these, I just think it can be improved.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Single cuts don't typically prevent thumb-over until the last few frets. On these, it looks like it would prevent it around fret 12.

Admittedly, though, I don't see balance being an issue specifically because of the shape. The strap button should be right around fret twelve, which is a good place to have it. The center weight should be in a pretty ideal location. I mean, I've not played one, but they do look like they'd balance really well. In fact, that's the only thing I really dig about the way they look.

Again, maybe I'm wrong on that since I haven't played one. Also, my mind is a little scrambled cuz I just got home from work and haven't had much sleep so maybe I'm not even making the points I intend to. 

For the record, I do think it would look cool as a headless. For my personal "I'm never gonna buy one anyway so who cares about my opinion" tastes, it would be ideal. For no other reason than I just think it'd look cooler.

Edit: ninja'd


----------



## diagrammatiks

but meh thumbovrer.

it's like not everyone player is going to get along with every guitar.


----------



## NCeuRign

I'd be impressed if anyone could get their thumb over and any fingers at the same time, on an 8.


----------



## xzacx

bzhang9 said:


> because headless has a much lighter neck and needs weight shifted towards the neck... the abasi looks like neck dive city



This logic and physics has me puzzled. If you're worried about neck dive, wound't shifting weight towards the neck counteract the positives of losing the headstock? I can see how you'd think it would work better as a headless, but not how the weight NEEDS shifted forward and enhances the headless concept.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I don't get complaining about not being able to do thumb over grip. I can pretty much guarantee unless you have George Foreman hands you're not doing that on an 8 string. Plus ergonomically it's fucking horrible for you.


----------



## AmoryDrive

cip 123 said:


> Man it looks so sick in Ash!


Glad you think so, people didn't agree when I got the first pictures of it hahahaha


----------



## Lemonbaby

bzhang9 said:


> because headless has a much lighter neck and needs weight shifted towards the neck... the abasi looks like neck dive city


If you say so...


----------



## GunpointMetal

You don't "shift weight towards the neck" on a headless design, and this guitar probably actually balances pretty well with the horn extending up to the twelfth-ish fret and the strap button more towards the bass-side of the bridge instead of centered. 

It would look cooler as a headless IMO, though. Doesn't matter since it's way out of my price range and I barely even touch my 8 anymore in favor of my 9s.


----------



## kisielk

KnightBrolaire said:


> I don't get complaining about not being able to do thumb over grip. I can pretty much guarantee unless you have George Foreman hands you're not doing that on an 8 string. Plus ergonomically it's fucking horrible for you.


They do make a 6-string version as well...

Personally I don't really use thumb over on 7 or 8 string guitars, but I do pretty frequently for comping jazz on a 6 string. It can be much faster to quickly grab a note on the low E with the thumb than to flip your whole hand around, especially if you're just going to have to flip it back right afterwards.

That being said, I don't think having the neck join the fretboard at the 12th fret would limit me... and I think the design looks awesome.


----------



## animalsasleader

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Decibel is the one who originally designed the Larada from scratch for Tosin.
> 
> Yep, sounds like Abasi Concepts in a nutshell.



Darren did not design the Larada from scratch. I sent him my original drawing and we worked together to refine it. He then turned it into a CAD file so that prototyping could begin.


----------



## animalsasleader

What are you guy’s thoughts on this spec. Considering ordering more of them but wanted to get some input first.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

animalsasleader said:


> Darren did not design the Larada from scratch. I sent him my original drawing and we worked together to refine it. He then turned it into a CAD file so that prototyping could begin.


Okay, so you sent him the idea for the original shape. But did you send him the initial measurements, dimensions, angles, and everything? Nah. You just send him a pencil sketch of the body shape on paper that looked like it was hand-drawn by a child.


----------



## BigViolin

Regarding the guitar above, I think the grain lines on such a small area make it too busy. The blacked out bevels just disappear so one of the coolest features, the shape, kinda goes away. I think the design really lends itself better to one color finishes as the bevels add plenty of contrast.

The candy red and the solid pastels really work imo.


----------



## SpaceDock

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Okay, so you sent him the idea for the original shape. But did you send him the initial measurements, dimensions, angles, and everything? Nah. You just send him a pencil sketch of the body shape on paper that looked like it was hand-drawn by a child.



damn, that’s cold


----------



## MaxOfMetal

animalsasleader said:


> What are you guy’s thoughts on this spec. Considering ordering more of them but wanted to get some input first.
> View attachment 77343



What's been the take/request rate on these extreme two-tone ones? 

I'm not really into it, to be honest, but I could totally be the odd man out on that. 

Any solid metallic colors coming down the pike?



Emperor Guillotine said:


> Okay, so you sent him the idea for the original shape. But did you send him the initial measurements, dimensions, angles, and everything? Nah. You just send him a pencil sketch of the body shape on paper that looked like it was hand-drawn by a child.



What a weird hill to die on.


----------



## StevenC

animalsasleader said:


> What are you guy’s thoughts on this spec. Considering ordering more of them but wanted to get some input first.
> View attachment 77343


Not into the two tone thing, but won't be buying a WMI version anyway.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

It’s cool but may look nicer completely sand-blasted instead of the two tone thing, like the prs’. If metal guys are playing it (and excuse the stereotype), there tends to be darker clothing so it can look funny if it’s just the white bit visible. 

Please don’t slate me for this internet


----------



## animalsasleader

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Okay, so you sent him the idea for the original shape. But did you send him the initial measurements, dimensions, angles, and everything? Nah. You just send him a pencil sketch of the body shape on paper that looked like it was hand-drawn by a child.


The whole point of working with Daren was to translate my concept into an instrument. This is a process that is not unique to my design. I’m not sure why you want to remove my input from the outcome of this instrument but I have to remind myself that it ultimately doesn’t matter.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Okay, so you sent him the idea for the original shape. But did you send him the initial measurements, dimensions, angles, and everything? Nah. You just send him a pencil sketch of the body shape on paper that looked like it was hand-drawn by a child.



Now THATS What I Call Edgy, Vol. 22


----------



## Thringer09

animalsasleader said:


> What are you guy’s thoughts on this spec. Considering ordering more of them but wanted to get some input first.
> View attachment 77343


I know it was a custom but more models with binding please! The one you guys had at NAMM was too sick.


----------



## odibrom

To each his own, meaning, each and everyone of us guitar nerds have unique and different skills in life. @animalsasleader's is Guitar playing and knowing what works as ergonomics and specs, others' might as well be to translate those specs into CAD drawing and an actual instrument. It's a bad example, but if someone contracts a killer and the job is done, both the killer and the contractor are responsible for the kill. If this is valid for a crime environment, why wouldn't it also be for a creative one?

This to say that if someone inputs and idea into a design, he has credits for it, even if the design falls under a brand or someone else's portfolio.


----------



## Albake21

Hmm.. I'm not too big on the two tone ash top. I could see people liking it though, but I feel like that would be more risky. I still think solid colors are the way to go for now. If it were my vote, I'd do a few solid colors like shell pink, light blue, and maybe black or white.


----------



## jephjacques

I like emphasizing the difference between the flat top and the bevels, but I'm personally pretty over the whole grain-filled ash look. Have you considered Hello Kitty graphics, or perhaps some fairy-type pokemon?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

greatest mistake of my life was selling the beauty 

it deserves to be on an 8 string abasi change my mind


----------



## stupidweakbaby

animalsasleader said:


> What are you guy’s thoughts on this spec. Considering ordering more of them but wanted to get some input first.
> View attachment 77343



Oreos may be tastier, but I'll stick with the Pepto. Take my money and give me shell pink!


----------



## jephjacques

Jack McGoldrick said:


> View attachment 77344
> 
> greatest mistake of my life was selling the beauty
> 
> it deserves to be on an 8 string abasi change my mind



would also accept an Aggretsuko Larada

Laradaggretsuko


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

jephjacques said:


> would also accept an Aggretsuko Larada
> 
> Laradaggretsuko
> 
> View attachment 77347



not pink and non threatening tho :/


----------



## jephjacques

I dunno I find Hello Kitty VERY threatening


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Concerning the 2-tone finish, I’m more of a solid colour guy. 



Emperor Guillotine said:


> Okay, so you sent him the idea for the original shape. But did you send him the initial measurements, dimensions, angles, and everything? Nah. You just send him a pencil sketch of the body shape on paper that looked like it was hand-drawn by a child.



Why are you arguing this? Were you there? Why do you care? Just why? ...


----------



## klaim

jephjacques said:


> would also accept an Aggretsuko Larada
> 
> Laradaggretsuko
> 
> View attachment 77347



Agreed.

If the holographic-like tech could be used to make the face switch from cute aguretsuko to metal aguretsuko, it would be incredible.


----------



## Synesthesia

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Okay, so you sent him the idea for the original shape. But did you send him the initial measurements, dimensions, angles, and everything? Nah. You just send him a pencil sketch of the body shape on paper that looked like it was hand-drawn by a child.


 If he had sent him a drawing AND the dimensions, measurements, angles etc then he would have entirely designed it... as it stands, he came up with the foundational aesthetics and collaborated with Darren to refine and make it into a scale model. The main takeaway being that Darren didnt design it "from scratch"


----------



## Hollowway

I don’t mind the two tone finish, but I’m not a grain-filled fan. I am planning to buy an WMI. I also like the solid colored version with the matte/gloss finish. Fingers crossed for a pink, purple, magenta, etc version!


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

glassmoon0fo said:


> Now THATS What I Call Edgy, Vol. 22


Darn. I thought we were on Vol. 69. The true edgelord holy number!



HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Why are you arguing this? Were you there? Why do you care? Just why? ...


Why do YOU care? Like, why care so much? Why ask such dumb questions?



Synesthesia said:


> If he had sent him a drawing AND the dimensions, measurements, angles etc then he would have entirely designed it... as it stands, he came up with the foundational aesthetics and collaborated with Darren to refine and make it into a scale model. The main takeaway being that Darren didnt design it "from scratch"


Good point. The body design itself is literally just a Strandberg Boden without a top horn and with a headstock added. So I guess you are right. Neither Darren nor Tosin designed this “from scratch”.


----------



## Seabeast2000

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Concerning the 2-tone finish, I’m more of a solid colour guy.
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you arguing this? Were you there? Why do you care? Just why? ...


20/20 Investigates bro.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Imagine thinking strandberg invented the ergonomic guitar


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

AmoryDrive said:


> Imagine thinking strandberg invented the ergonomic guitar


Imagine making dumb assumptions in sarcastic comments and thinking that the Larada shape doesn’t look like a Strandberg Boden body on the lower side.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Imagine making dumb assumptions in sarcastic comments and thinking that the Larada shape doesn’t look like a Strandberg Boden body on the lower side.


Yeah and strandberg didnt come up with that lol


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

AmoryDrive said:


> Yeah and strandberg didnt come up with that lol


I never said that Strandberg came up with anything. Just pointed out the similarities in body shape. Why must you continue to make dumb comments?


----------



## AmoryDrive

Emperor Guillotine said:


> I never said that Strandberg came up with anything. Just pointed out the similarities in body shape. Why must you continue to make dumb comments?


Cause it pisses you off and its kinda funny now lol


----------



## prlgmnr

Why is everyone so cross about everything at the moment?


WHY ARE AMPS EXPENSIVE, IT'S LIKE IF I SAID HURRAY WE SHOULD ALL HAVE AN ABORTION NOW JARED DINES CAN GET GAY MARRIED


----------



## Lemonbaby

Emperor Guillotine said:


> I never said that Strandberg came up with anything. Just pointed out the similarities in body shape. Why must you continue to make dumb comments?


HUGE similarities actually. Look, there's... strings... and... and... a neck. The same friggin guitar - literally!

Back to important topics: when's that stuff coming to Europe?


----------



## stupidweakbaby

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Good point. The body design itself is literally just a Strandberg Boden without a top horn and with a headstock added. So I guess you are right. Neither Darren nor Tosin designed this “from scratch”.



Did Tosin do something to really upset you? Like run over your cat and then start playing CAFO on its grave?


----------



## anton s

animalsasleader said:


> What are you guy’s thoughts on this spec. Considering ordering more of them but wanted to get some input first.
> View attachment 77343


I'm looking forward to a WMI 7string. But I really like the appearance of this one. Grain filled white/black reminds me of snow-covered ground.


----------



## jephjacques

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Darn. I thought we were on Vol. 69. The true edgelord holy number!
> 
> Why do YOU care? Like, why care so much? Why ask such dumb questions?
> 
> Good point. The body design itself is literally just a Strandberg Boden without a top horn and with a headstock added. So I guess you are right. Neither Darren nor Tosin designed this “from scratch”.



you seem mad bro


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

This is why we need hello kittyradas. To scare everyone so they’ll stop talking


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Darn. I thought we were on Vol. 69. The true edgelord holy number!
> 
> Why do YOU care? Like, why care so much? Why ask such dumb questions?
> 
> Good point. The body design itself is literally just a Strandberg Boden without a top horn and with a headstock added. So I guess you are right. Neither Darren nor Tosin designed this “from scratch”.



I don’t really care, but please carry on with the entertainment. Seriously man, are you doing allright? 



The906 said:


> 20/20 Investigates bro.



We need Barbara Walters right now. Dr. Phil would also be a good idea.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

What crack must one smoke to think the larada looks anything like a boden?

That's like saying a strat looks like an sg. 

As for the two tone, I kinda dig it, but I doubt I'd ever be inclined to buy one. I'm not a huge fan of the asymmetric top/bevel contrast. Looks way more lopsided than it actually is. Much like the kiesel Aries. Gives the illusion of the non-beveled part being the actual shape of the guitar. Give me a solid pastel pink and I'll be a happy camper.


----------



## Seabeast2000

prlgmnr said:


> Why is everyone so cross about everything at the moment?
> 
> 
> WHY ARE AMPS EXPENSIVE, IT'S LIKE IF I SAID HURRAY WE SHOULD ALL HAVE AN ABORTION NOW JARED DINES CAN GET GAY MARRIED



This is post-NAMM depression. Next friday we'll all give each other chalky little hearts restating our love for each other.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Chokey Chicken said:


> What crack must one smoke to think the larada looks anything like a boden?
> 
> That's like saying a strat looks like an sg.
> 
> As for the two tone, I kinda dig it, but I doubt I'd ever be inclined to buy one. I'm not a huge fan of the asymmetric top/bevel contrast. Looks way more lopsided than it actually is. Much like the kiesel Aries. Gives the illusion of the non-beveled part being the actual shape of the guitar. Give me a solid pastel pink and I'll be a happy camper.



I agree, you gotta be in a weird mental place to start arguing like a madman such a weird point. I hope the guy is doing ok.

Anyhow, J-Larada is slated for delivery next Thursday. Can’t wait !


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

AmoryDrive said:


> Cause it pisses you off and its kinda funny now lol


But I'm not pissed off. Like, seriously. Not at all. I was just seeing what kind of reactions my comments in this particular thread would elicit.



Lemonbaby said:


> HUGE similarities actually. Look, there's... strings... and... and... a neck. The same friggin guitar - literally!


What the f*ck is a guitar?



stupidweakbaby said:


> Did Tosin do something to really upset you? Like run over your cat and then start playing CAFO on its grave?


Not a cat fan, but imagine thinking that "CAFO" is still a relevant song to reference.



jephjacques said:


> you seem mad bro


No, sir. I just enjoy reading some of the comments that spew forth from the minds of these diehard Toastin' Kielbasi fanboys online.



HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I don’t really care, but please carry on with the entertainment. Seriously man, are you doing allright?


Pretty darn good. Thanks for asking! You already, HGS? It's been awhile.



Chokey Chicken said:


> What crack must one smoke to think the larada looks anything like a boden


Chokey, let me tell ya, bro...


----------



## Bastian93

good guy Emperor Guillotine


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

To those speaking of a headless build, did you see this Falbo build?





(I have nothing to do with this pic, it was taken from IG.)



Emperor Guillotine said:


> Pretty darn good. Thanks for asking! You already, HGS? It's been awhile.



Yeah it’s been too long  Tendinitis giving me a bit of spare time. You should advise Jared Dines on how to manufacture drama. Grade A stuff man. I mean that with all due respect


----------



## AmoryDrive

Was just thinking about the bass extension that the Toone and Strandberg customs have, know its not a feature that over a dozen people are probably asking for but might be something cool to do for a limited custom.

Does anyone else build guitars with bass extensions I don't know about?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> To those speaking of a headless build, did you see this Falbo build?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I have nothing to do with this pic, it was taken from IG.)
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it’s been too long  Tendinitis giving me a bit of spare time. You should advise Jared Dines on how to manufacture drama. Grade A stuff man. I mean that with all due respect



Yeah, that was the "fuck you" build he did right after the drama unfolded publicly and Abasi cut him out. 

The build process was posted in this thread.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> To those speaking of a headless build, did you see this Falbo build?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I have nothing to do with this pic, it was taken from IG.)
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it’s been too long  Tendinitis giving me a bit of spare time. You should advise Jared Dines on how to manufacture drama. Grade A stuff man. I mean that with all due respect



I think it looks pretty damn cool. I'd like to see it as an option, but I do like the version with a headstock too. Doesn't make all the practical sense in the world since my favorite thing about headless is how compact they are (and that body by design is pretty large,) but aesthetically it's neat.


----------



## cip 123

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> To those speaking of a headless build, did you see this Falbo build?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I have nothing to do with this pic, it was taken from IG.)
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah it’s been too long  Tendinitis giving me a bit of spare time. You should advise Jared Dines on how to manufacture drama. Grade A stuff man. I mean that with all due respect


I have a headless build here too, that's more of an exact Larada Shape if you missed it


----------



## cip 123

Chokey Chicken said:


> I think it looks pretty damn cool. I'd like to see it as an option, but I do like the version with a headstock too. Doesn't make all the practical sense in the world since my favorite thing about headless is how compact they are (and that body by design is pretty large,) but aesthetically it's neat.


Here is a Larada headless, which is truer to the shape. It works well and it'd be cool maybe next NAMM to see it.

For reference the Schecter is 27" the Larada at it's longest is 27.5" (in my design, I can't recall the real Larada scale) and the Larada is smaller and lighter


----------



## Pietjepieter

I really whant a larada untill now.

Now I whant a Larada headless


----------



## cip 123

Pietjepieter said:


> I really whant a larada untill now.
> 
> Now I whant a Larada headless


Get a Larada while you wait for the Headless


----------



## cardinal

I want that Schecter too...


----------



## diagrammatiks

Love the design as a headless.


----------



## cip 123

cardinal said:


> I want that Schecter too...


There is a brother out there think its still in the US, same specs it's dark blue.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

this is probably something that I missed while very diligently going through 227 pages, but any speculations on the cost of the WMI larada?


----------



## StevenC

JaxoBuzzo said:


> this is probably something that I missed while very diligently going through 227 pages, but any speculations on the cost of the WMI larada?


I think the figure was around $1800.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

that's something I could swing for one of these. any idea when to these will start being produced?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

We were told end of summer so I’d say winter


----------



## Pietjepieter

cip 123 said:


> Get a Larada while you wait for the Headless



If available in Europe... and if in a solid color... that will properly be the case


----------



## BlackMastodon

cip 123 said:


> For reference the Schecter is 27" the Larada at it's longest is 27.5" (in *my design*, I can't recall the real Larada scale) and the Larada is smaller and lighter


Careful now.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Looks better as a headless IMO. I mean except for whatever the hell is going on with that paddle in the Falbo picture. Designed by Agile?


----------



## cip 123

BlackMastodon said:


> Careful now.


Damn too late to edit, only meant that as the neck is just used from one of my actual original designs. But yea Larada is all Abasi.


----------



## Fred the Shred

animalsasleader said:


> What are you guy’s thoughts on this spec. Considering ordering more of them but wanted to get some input first.
> View attachment 77343



Personally, I find it super cool as it makes the center portion of the top a clear aesthetic focus, but that's just my opinion of course.


----------



## BlackMastodon

cip 123 said:


> Damn too late to edit, only meant that as the neck is just used from one of my actual original designs. But yea Larada is all Abasi.


Just saying you don't want to get a certain madbro to get mad, bro


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Will the WMI builds have the same scale length as the J-laradas, i.e.

7-string: 25.5” - 27.21”
8-string: 25.5” - 27.5” ?


----------



## AmoryDrive

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Will the WMI builds have the same scale length as the J-laradas, i.e.
> 
> 7-string: 25.5” - 27.21”
> 8-string: 25.5” - 27.5” ?


Between the J and the WMI at NAMM, I dont think there was a difference in scale (at least that I noticed) but I'll leave that for @animalsasleader to confirm


----------



## cip 123

BlackMastodon said:


> Just saying you don't want to get a certain madbro to get mad, bro


It's a bit of banter. Plus Abasi gets to look at the interest of a Headless, it's a win for everyone imo.


----------



## Pwntus

Got my J Larada 8 Chalk the other day. Absolutely love it. Was a bit scared when i took it out of the package wondering if i was way in over my head but 10 minutes of using it and it became really natural to use.
Ive got another 8 string and plenty of other gear but this will definitely be my main recording tool!

Quick personal review pointers for those interested, im definitely not an expert and i have generally no idea what im talking about when it comes to this stuff, but this is my experience:

Size and weight is phenomenal, its weight is lighter than most 6 strings (definitely lighter than all of mine at least) making it easy to handle and doesn't get in your way.

Shape of the guitar really is great and sits perfectly in your lap when you play. Found an odd scenario though when sitting in classical where the upper curve on the body pushes on by breastbone that felt a bit odd, but its definitely a "getting used to" thing
I really enjoy just letting it hang on my left thigh when i do things on my computer. It wont go anywhere as the balance is great, the low weight also makes the guitar not swing back and forth so much if you have it in your lap without holding it. As said any computer work while its in your lap is really easy and it is not in your way. I almost forget its there sometimes.

The neck is pretty thin which makes it easy to navigate the 8 string neck, a lot smoother than most other 8 strings ive played. Drawback here is a light feeling of it being easy to break, although i suspect that is just my "i just spent a ton of money and im very careful" reaction. It has a very sturdy strength though. 

Fanned fret board layout is nicely spaced, the way the frets line up in the middle made it easier to get into for me. Its my first multi scale but it didn't take me long to get used to it (having tried others where i never could get over the fanned frets at all)
The sound and tone of the fishman are really clear, great variety, depth, with impressive sustain. I have yet to push them generally but what really stood out to me was when playing octaves. On my other guitars i would always hear the middle muted string (i just probably suck at playing) just a bit which would muddy the sound, on the Larada that is not heard and its crystal clear. The two mode setup is very interesting and gives more variety of use.

The cable socket is pointing upwards on the back, i probably would have wanted it pointing downwards, but its not a big thing. Love having it on the back though.
General finish and build quality is very high and i love the feeling of just holding the guitar, everything from finish to material quality is phenomenal, fretwork is great. The back of the neck is beautiful, smooth but the wood grain is still felt when playing which was not what i expected to like as much as i do. 
If there is any tiny nitpick negative here it would be the edges of the layer of color finish on the head, but its barely noticeable unless you look really, really close. It feels like beautiful piece of art overall and i want to put it square center in my living room for all to see
I have not owned it for more than a day but all in all, its not an understatement when saying it feels like a high end sports car in a guitar, its fast slick and well designed with great hardware.

Also, the team at abasi concepts were really helpful, i was worried it would break during shipping and they managed to get a hold of a guitar case even though they were out when i ordered, helpful and quick response from them on questions regarding the order in general.
Just my thoughts and experience on this and im far from an expert on gear, hopefully someone will find this useful!


----------



## AmoryDrive

Pwntus said:


> Got my J Larada 8 Chalk the other day. Absolutely love it. Was a bit scared when i took it out of the package wondering if i was way in over my head but 10 minutes of using it and it became really natural to use.
> Ive got another 8 string and plenty of other gear but this will definitely be my main recording tool!
> 
> Quick personal review pointers for those interested, im definitely not an expert and i have generally no idea what im talking about when it comes to this stuff, but this is my experience:
> 
> Size and weight is phenomenal, its weight is lighter than most 6 strings (definitely lighter than all of mine at least) making it easy to handle and doesn't get in your way.
> 
> Shape of the guitar really is great and sits perfectly in your lap when you play. Found an odd scenario though when sitting in classical where the upper curve on the body pushes on by breastbone that felt a bit odd, but its definitely a "getting used to" thing
> I really enjoy just letting it hang on my left thigh when i do things on my computer. It wont go anywhere as the balance is great, the low weight also makes the guitar not swing back and forth so much if you have it in your lap without holding it. As said any computer work while its in your lap is really easy and it is not in your way. I almost forget its there sometimes.
> 
> The neck is pretty thin which makes it easy to navigate the 8 string neck, a lot smoother than most other 8 strings ive played. Drawback here is a light feeling of it being easy to break, although i suspect that is just my "i just spent a ton of money and im very careful" reaction. It has a very sturdy strength though.
> 
> Fanned fret board layout is nicely spaced, the way the frets line up in the middle made it easier to get into for me. Its my first multi scale but it didn't take me long to get used to it (having tried others where i never could get over the fanned frets at all)
> The sound and tone of the fishman are really clear, great variety, depth, with impressive sustain. I have yet to push them generally but what really stood out to me was when playing octaves. On my other guitars i would always hear the middle muted string (i just probably suck at playing) just a bit which would muddy the sound, on the Larada that is not heard and its crystal clear. The two mode setup is very interesting and gives more variety of use.
> 
> The cable socket is pointing upwards on the back, i probably would have wanted it pointing downwards, but its not a big thing. Love having it on the back though.
> General finish and build quality is very high and i love the feeling of just holding the guitar, everything from finish to material quality is phenomenal, fretwork is great. The back of the neck is beautiful, smooth but the wood grain is still felt when playing which was not what i expected to like as much as i do.
> If there is any tiny nitpick negative here it would be the edges of the layer of color finish on the head, but its barely noticeable unless you look really, really close. It feels like beautiful piece of art overall and i want to put it square center in my living room for all to see
> I have not owned it for more than a day but all in all, its not an understatement when saying it feels like a high end sports car in a guitar, its fast slick and well designed with great hardware.
> 
> Also, the team at abasi concepts were really helpful, i was worried it would break during shipping and they managed to get a hold of a guitar case even though they were out when i ordered, helpful and quick response from them on questions regarding the order in general.
> Just my thoughts and experience on this and im far from an expert on gear, hopefully someone will find this useful!


Congrats!


----------



## jephjacques

I regret not jumping on that J Larada run before they were sold out


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@pwuntus : congrats man!! Thanks for having taken the time to write your review.

Like an idiot I did not buy the gig bag and now I’m regretting that decision, especially since the gig bag company (Reunion Blues) doesn’t ship to Canada (and Amazon stocks are at zero for the Aero model).

Any suggestions on alternatives would be welcome. I googled different models, but I have no clue if they’ll fit the J Larada.


----------



## AmoryDrive

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @pwuntus : congrats man!! Like an idiot I did not buy the gig bag and now I’m regretting that decision, especially since the gig bag company (Reunion Blues) doesn’t ship to Canada (and Amazon stocks are at zero for the Aero model). Do you have any suggestions on alternatives?


I believe an Abasi should fit in generic, strat size cases. I'd go to your local shop to see what fits. Otherwise I love getting Pelican or SKB cases and cutting the foam to fit


----------



## Pwntus

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @pwuntus : congrats man!! Thanks for having taken the time to write your review.
> 
> Like an idiot I did not buy the gig bag and now I’m regretting that decision, especially since the gig bag company (Reunion Blues) doesn’t ship to Canada (and Amazon stocks are at zero for the Aero model).
> 
> Any suggestions on alternatives would be welcome. I googled different models, but I have no clue if they’ll fit the J Larada.



Yeah like @AmoryDrive is saying, pretty sure you can fit it in some generic bag , its pretty uniform in shape so to say. I was going to buy a case until they offered me to get one but before that i came to the conclusion that any bag that doesn't have a precise cutout inside "should" do the trick. The reunion union bag isnt specific to the larada but just has a general soft space inside for it, if that is of any help, added an image of mine for reference.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I’ll go with the Continental Voyager.


----------



## jephjacques

Pwntus said:


> The neck is pretty thin which makes it easy to navigate the 8 string neck, a lot smoother than most other 8 strings ive played. Drawback here is a light feeling of it being easy to break, although i suspect that is just my "i just spent a ton of money and im very careful" reaction. It has a very sturdy strength though.


Don't worry, you're not gonna break a solid piece of wenge. It's an incredibly hard wood and not brittle like ebony. Lots of luthiers hate working with it because it destroys tools


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jephjacques said:


> Don't worry, you're not gonna break a solid piece of wenge. It's an incredibly hard wood and not brittle like ebony. Lots of luthiers hate working with it because it destroys tools


also the splinters. jesus fuck the splinters are horrible with wenge


----------



## animalsasleader

So. I’ve been wanting to do this for a while. I hit up Kevin at Iconic guitars and told him to spray nitro on this thing and go heavy on the relic. I think it came out great!


----------



## Frostbite

animalsasleader said:


> So. I’ve been wanting to do this for a while. I hit up Kevin at Iconic guitars and told him to spray nitro on this thing and go heavy on the relic. I think it came out great!
> View attachment 77495
> View attachment 77496
> View attachment 77497
> View attachment 77498


Sir, your pick guard is missing some screws...


----------



## AmoryDrive

animalsasleader said:


> So. I’ve been wanting to do this for a while. I hit up Kevin at Iconic guitars and told him to spray nitro on this thing and go heavy on the relic. I think it came out great!
> View attachment 77495
> View attachment 77496
> View attachment 77497
> View attachment 77498


Sick! Bringing that on tour?


----------



## cip 123

The world so needs some more relic'd ERG's. Looks sick!


----------



## jephjacques

the pickguard works great on that!


----------



## jephjacques

jephjacques said:


> the pickguard works great on that!



also nice kitchen


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

That’s amazing


----------



## Thaeon

animalsasleader said:


> So. I’ve been wanting to do this for a while. I hit up Kevin at Iconic guitars and told him to spray nitro on this thing and go heavy on the relic. I think it came out great!
> View attachment 77495
> View attachment 77496
> View attachment 77497
> View attachment 77498



That is both the first Larada and the first relic'd guitar I've looked at and thought, "Yeah, I'd play that." Well done Tosin.


----------



## Seabeast2000

jephjacques said:


> also nice kitchen


Next photo will be Tosin filling for OoP.


----------



## StevenC

animalsasleader said:


> So. I’ve been wanting to do this for a while. I hit up Kevin at Iconic guitars and told him to spray nitro on this thing and go heavy on the relic. I think it came out great!
> View attachment 77495
> View attachment 77496
> View attachment 77497
> View attachment 77498


I was told there was an unfinished pink relic guitar at NAMM, is this it? Looks stunning.


----------



## animalsasleader

AmoryDrive said:


> Sick! Bringing that on tour?


Yup!


----------



## animalsasleader

jephjacques said:


> the pickguard works great on that!


Thanks! Was kinda on the fence but it grows on you for sure.


----------



## animalsasleader

Frostbite said:


> Sir, your pick guard is missing some screws...


Yeah...haha. Wasn’t sure I was gonna leave it on there at first. I’m definitely committed now tho. Love it


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

animalsasleader said:


> Yeah...haha. Wasn’t sure I was gonna leave it on there at first. I’m definitely committed now tho. Love it



yooooo send us a picture without the pickguard just to see


----------



## Frostbite

animalsasleader said:


> Yeah...haha. Wasn’t sure I was gonna leave it on there at first. I’m definitely committed now tho. Love it


100% fits the vibe


----------



## Freakyfredreaky

I love the reliced look... Feel the pickups need relicing too though


----------



## Extrafunk

Pups need battered chrome covers - or lose the pick guard and go zebra...


----------



## Fred the Shred

Pickups are Fishman actives, and they're his signature set to boot, so there isn't much you can do to them there witout going seriously out of your way, other than trying to give the plastic covers an aged effect. The units are sealed, so you can't simply expose the bobbins (there are none) or change the cover without risking and probably causing serious structural issues with the pickups.


----------



## Freakyfredreaky

I would stain them and use some weathering powders... Years of wargaming has given me lots of techniques for aging plastic lol


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I dig it a lot. Really love the tortoise shell scratch plate and the relicing on the upper bout. The white pups are a little too clean so I'm in agreement about doing some sort of relic on that, or swapping for black pups, but in the end it's no big deal. People swap nice new pups into beat to shit old guitars all the time.

Super sick.


----------



## Thaeon

Freakyfredreaky said:


> I would stain them and use some weathering powders... Years of wargaming has given me lots of techniques for aging plastic lol



Some gentle surface filing and a light black wash with maybe a matte brown wash over it?


----------



## Pietjepieter

I truly fucking love the relic one, and I don't like relic guitars at all..... Abasi is doing strange things to mine mind


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Just got this in the mail. Cheated on my tendinitis for 10 minutes and my first impression is that I love the neck shape and upper fret access. It's surprisingly light and sits really well in classical position. I'll do a video once my left arm is fully recovered. In the mean time, blue balls for me hehe.


----------



## AmoryDrive

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Just got this in the mail. Cheated on my tendinitis for 10 minutes and my first impression is that I love the neck shape and upper fret access. It's surprisingly light and sits really well in classical position. I'll do a video once my left arm is fully recovered. In the mean time, blue balls for me hehe.


Congrats!


----------



## jephjacques

yesss more laradas in the wild


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

“Larada’s in the Wild” sounds like a good album name


----------



## Hollowway

Damn, I wished I'd gotten one of those when I could. I'm waiting for the WMIs, but that seems an eternity from now!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Tosin make that natural finish in wmi and you can just have my money thanks


----------



## Quiet Coil

animalsasleader said:


> Really digging this naked look. Tricky part is retaining the pale quality of the raw swamp ash once any type of finish is applied...



Satin nitro with no tint baby!


----------



## cip 123

Tricky part is keeping the ash clean throughout the build, it picks up dirt like nothing else!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

cip 123 said:


> Tricky part is keeping the ash clean throughout the build, it picks up dirt like nothing else!


that's why you do shou sugi ban and burn the shit out of it. can't see the dirt then


----------



## Hollowway

KnightBrolaire said:


> that's why you do shou sugi ban and burn the shit out of it. can't see the dirt then


That would be cool!


----------



## Samark

animalsasleader said:


> Really digging this naked look. Tricky part is retaining the pale quality of the raw swamp ash once any type of finish is applied...
> View attachment 77589
> View attachment 77590
> View attachment 77591
> View attachment 77592



That looks outstanding!


----------



## Dayn

The only thing better is if you could get custom wood covers for the pickups and knob/selector switch.


----------



## Quiet Coil

How ‘bout a set with brushed nickel caps?


----------



## HaloHat

Noisy Humbucker said:


> Satin nitro with no tint baby!


Took the words right out of my keyboard


----------



## Thaeon

KnightBrolaire said:


> that's why you do shou sugi ban and burn the shit out of it. can't see the dirt then



I am 100% for this. Even if just baked. Would be SO sexy.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Do the bare minimum finish and release it as a cheaper RAW model.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Now I’m thinking about chapmans raw guitars which aren’t nice in any way


----------



## AmoryDrive

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Do the bare minimum finish and release it as a cheaper RAW model.


Like my custom order? Lol


----------



## StevenC

Look Tosin, 5 years ago I wasn't into this at all. Then you got that blue one and I was starting to come on board. Then you went out on your own and I figured I'd support that. Then you did that pink one and I figured I'll get a blue J8 and a pink one. Then you did the Larelic with the pickguard, so I guess I'm down for three. 

But that's the limit. I don't care how many pretty natural ash, magic carbon fibre, car finish guitars you wave in front of me. Please stop, this is too much and I haven't even bought the first one yet.


----------



## jephjacques

Feelin the natural ash


----------



## Solodini

Jack McGoldrick said:


> “Larada’s in the Wild” sounds like a good album name



Laradas gone wild.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Solodini said:


> Laradas gone wild.



Nah that’s the b sides release


----------



## animalsasleader

StevenC said:


> Look Tosin, 5 years ago I wasn't into this at all. Then you got that blue one and I was starting to come on board. Then you went out on your own and I figured I'd support that. Then you did that pink one and I figured I'll get a blue J8 and a pink one. Then you did the Larelic with the pickguard, so I guess I'm down for three.
> 
> But that's the limit. I don't care how many pretty natural ash, magic carbon fibre, car finish guitars you wave in front of me. Please stop, this is too much and I haven't even bought the first one yet.


Lol! I’m just getting started tho! #allofthelaradas


----------



## Quiet Coil

On the ash - if you want something more durable you could experiment with a clear coat of poly first, then prep it for the satin nitro on top.

That’s what my luthier did with my Charvel, took off the high gloss and shot the satin nitro on top of the base coat - best of both worlds as far as I’m concerned. The poly won’t “flex and flake” like nitro.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Hey so near no guitar company has one model so when’s the headless, double cut, double neck, passive, 9 string drop?


----------



## AmoryDrive

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Hey so near no guitar company has one model so when’s the headless, double cut, double neck, passive, 9 string drop?


I'd like to see one with a bass fret extension like the Blur myself...


----------



## StevenC

animalsasleader said:


> Lol! I’m just getting started tho! #allofthelaradas


Fine, I'll take a fourth if you offer a spec with baritone hybrid to replace your Strandberg #8 and Blur. But that's it.

(For real, if you ever find you've replaced #8 you know where to find me.)


----------



## AmoryDrive

StevenC said:


> Fine, I'll take a fourth if you offer a spec with baritone hybrid to replace your Strandberg #8 and Blur. But that's it.
> 
> (For real, if you ever find you've replaced #8 you know where to find me.)


Same, limited run? Lol


----------



## AmoryDrive

Heck you know what would be cool? Fashion Designer collabs. Off White, Fear of God, or even....

...Larada Vuitton? Demoing a vinyl color before I get a whole sheet for this hahaha


----------



## StevenC

AmoryDrive said:


> Heck you know what would be cool? Fashion Designer collabs. Off White, Fear of God, or even....
> 
> ...Larada Vuitton? Demoing a vinyl color before I get a whole sheet for this hahaha
> View attachment 77652


Unironically I really want a LV guitar case.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Nah it’s too much


----------



## Mr. Manager

Is the next batch of these supposed to be this summer with the WMI? Or might there be some more J Laradas coming?

Also, does anyone know what the key differences will be on the WMI vs other manufacturers?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Mr. Manager said:


> Is the next batch of these supposed to be this summer with the WMI? Or might there be some more J Laradas coming?
> 
> Also, does anyone know what the key differences will be on the WMI vs other manufacturers?



First of the wmi are dropping late summer, with 8’s first, then 7’s then 6’s. They will probably use cheaper woods, five bolt construction, instead of the matte/gloss thing there will be only matte or only gloss, some will have veneer tops and this thread is pushing for solid colours. No clue when the next Japan batch will be ordered but Tosin mentioned ordering some soon


----------



## jephjacques

Considering how quickly that first J Larada run sold out I have to assume there will be more in the pipeline ASAP.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Next is the US Masters 6 strings which I believe is in a few weeks


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Mr. Manager said:


> Is the next batch of these supposed to be this summer with the WMI? Or might there be some more J Laradas coming?
> 
> Also, does anyone know what the key differences will be on the WMI vs other manufacturers?



Besides what was mentioned, the J models have an ovoid neck shape (thin on lower register) while the US builds are supposed to have a C-shaped neck.


----------



## JSanta

Not sure if this is the right place, but I know there will be a lot of interest from people here: https://reverb.com/news/animals-as-...zqa1rGghSv2kmaXX0uhO1Zy8FVJgy8iiGA1QX11PSBf8o


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Jesus I hope that prs 8 string is up


----------



## Seabeast2000

Let's hope the Ticketmaster of artist gear doesn't show up.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Welp, if any Laradas Abasi/Ibanez or otherwise pop up I'm in trouble hahaha


----------



## StevenC

Damn, I'd love to buy the white Ibanez LACS but doubt it'll happen. That, the stolen LACS and #8 are the only Tosin guitars I'd want to buy. Maybe the Vik.


----------



## JSanta

I apologize for any debts that may be incurred in a week


----------



## spudmunkey

The906 said:


> Let's hope the Ticketmaster of artist gear doesn't show up.



Ugh, that fuckin' guy...my brain had forgotten about him.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

The relic'd model looks amazing, I'd be curious to see the pickguard extended to the end of the lower bout - it feels somehow cut off at that point to me.

Oh, and a throwback trans white / gold hardware / block inlay / tortoiseshell pickguard would be dope too!


----------



## Thaeon

The906 said:


> Let's hope the Ticketmaster of artist gear doesn't show up.





spudmunkey said:


> Ugh, that fuckin' guy...my brain had forgotten about him.



I have no idea who this person is. Then again, I'm rarely looking to buy gear previously owned by artists because that doesn't appeal to me any more than buying anything else used. A used guitar is a used guitar.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Are we talking about that guy who bought all of Mustaines guitars or am I clueless?


----------



## StevenC

Thaeon said:


> I have no idea who this person is. Then again, I'm rarely looking to buy gear previously owned by artists because that doesn't appeal to me any more than buying anything else used. A used guitar is a used guitar.


A used guitar is a used guitar, but I'd really like that one of a kind used guitar that only Tosin has.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

StevenC said:


> A used guitar is a used guitar, but I'd really like that one of a kind used guitar that only Tosin has.



which one?


----------



## Seabeast2000

AmoryDrive said:


> Are we talking about that guy who bought all of Mustaines guitars or am I clueless?


Yeah that guy.


----------



## spudmunkey

AmoryDrive said:


> Are we talking about that guy who bought all of Mustaines guitars or am I clueless?



Yes. He brute-forced his way through every item, buying them as quickly as possible, even going so far as to pre-call his bank to let them know about the huge charges coming. He bought them to populate his studio, so that you could play them if you booked time there. To be clear, he didn't do any website hacking, or hiring outside firms to buy them up...he just took every advantage and bought virtually everything.


----------



## AmoryDrive

spudmunkey said:


> Yes. He brute-forced his way through every item, buying them as quickly as possible, even going so far as to pre-call his bank to let them know about the huge charges coming. He bought them to populate his studio, so that you could play them if you booked time there. To be clear, he didn't do any website hacking, or hiring outside firms to buy them up...he just took every advantage and bought virtually everything.


I didnt think the guitars were even that great a deal lol now that IEM rig I bought off him on the other hand....


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> which one?


The white LACS


----------



## HighGain510

I’m curious for folks who have a Larada, what stands have you found work well for these?


----------



## AmoryDrive

HighGain510 said:


> I’m curious for folks who have a Larada, what stands have you found work well for these?


Any normal stand with a neck support works just fine


----------



## HighGain510

AmoryDrive said:


> Any normal stand with a neck support works just fine



I’m asking since mine doesn’t seem to want to play nicely with my Hercules multistand, wasn’t sure if there are other options folks have tried that work better with the body shape perhaps. My Fender A-frame universal stands work fine for my Strandbergs but since the body tends to lean towards the bass side, that little arm support for those stands aren’t meant to support the weight of the whole guitar so I’m worried about leaving it on there, having it push the arm out of the way and taking a dive off the stand.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

HighGain510 said:


> I’m asking since mine doesn’t seem to want to play nicely with my Hercules multistand, wasn’t sure if there are other options folks have tried that work better with the body shape perhaps. My Fender A-frame universal stands work fine for my Strandbergs but since the body tends to lean towards the bass side, that little arm support for those stands aren’t meant to support the weight of the whole guitar so I’m worried about leaving it on there, having it push the arm out of the way and taking a dive off the stand.



just lean it against the wall smh ‍


----------



## StevenC

HighGain510 said:


> I’m asking since mine doesn’t seem to want to play nicely with my Hercules multistand, wasn’t sure if there are other options folks have tried that work better with the body shape perhaps. My Fender A-frame universal stands work fine for my Strandbergs but since the body tends to lean towards the bass side, that little arm support for those stands aren’t meant to support the weight of the whole guitar so I’m worried about leaving it on there, having it push the arm out of the way and taking a dive off the stand.


My Strandberg doesn't sit well in my Hercules multistand, but Ola posted a picture recently of a similar multistand that they did fit in. That might be an option. Or one of those Hercules hanger stands.


----------



## Quiet Coil

HighGain510 said:


> I’m asking since mine doesn’t seem to want to play nicely with my Hercules multistand, wasn’t sure if there are other options folks have tried that work better with the body shape perhaps. My Fender A-frame universal stands work fine for my Strandbergs but since the body tends to lean towards the bass side, that little arm support for those stands aren’t meant to support the weight of the whole guitar so I’m worried about leaving it on there, having it push the arm out of the way and taking a dive off the stand.



I could be thinking of the wrong stand, or misunderstanding your concern, but would changing the pitch of the stand help at all?

The Herc stand I’ve got lets me bring in the footprint a bit (and vice versa) which changes the overall angle of the guitars.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Jesus Tapdancing Christ I may be in trouble. How does this Reverb "auction" thing work? Is it a legit auction or a smash and grab?


----------



## spudmunkey

Have you tried the fender _universal_ a-frame stand? Each side of the body "hooks" is independantly adjustable up and down to be able to be as off-kilter as you'd need to keep the guitar held straight up and down.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00724ZD40/?tag=sevenstringorg-20


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

HighGain510 said:


> I’m asking since mine doesn’t seem to want to play nicely with my Hercules multistand, wasn’t sure if there are other options folks have tried that work better with the body shape perhaps. My Fender A-frame universal stands work fine for my Strandbergs but since the body tends to lean towards the bass side, that little arm support for those stands aren’t meant to support the weight of the whole guitar so I’m worried about leaving it on there, having it push the arm out of the way and taking a dive off the stand.



Which Hercules stand do you have? I have a Hercules 5-stand and it work well with my J-Larada (and Strandberg).


----------



## HighGain510

StevenC said:


> My Strandberg doesn't sit well in my Hercules multistand, but Ola posted a picture recently of a similar multistand that they did fit in. That might be an option. Or one of those Hercules hanger stands.



I saw that the other day and was curious about those, although I have four of the multistands now so I’m trying to avoid adding yet another huge set of stands if I can avoid it!  I didn’t even think of the single Hercules grip stand, that might work actually...



Noisy Humbucker said:


> I could be thinking of the wrong stand, or misunderstanding your concern, but would changing the pitch of the stand help at all?
> 
> The Herc stand I’ve got lets me bring in the footprint a bit (and vice versa) which changes the overall angle of the guitars.



The version I have is the 5-guitar multi-stand (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004P0MWCU/?tag=sevenstringorg-20) so the base is fixed. You can rotate the neck holder up or down and move the spacers to try to pinch the body in place, but the actual shape of the body doesn’t allow it to sit nicely on these stands unfortunately.



spudmunkey said:


> Have you tried the fender _universal_ a-frame stand? Each side of the body "hooks" is independantly adjustable up and down to be able to be as off-kilter as you'd need to keep the guitar held straight up and down.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00724ZD40/?tag=sevenstringorg-20



Haha yeah man, if you re-read my post I actually mentioned that’s the individual stand I tried that wouldn’t work. I can move the two bottom hooks on there to the right levels for the bottom of the body, but since the bass side of the body is heavier than the treble side, the body wants to lean to the left. Normally you could try to use that little hook arm on the left side to keep it steady, however there’s enough weight leaning sideways that it can actually push the arm out of the way even when you screw down the little lock knob. Not something I really want to risk on a $3K guitar!  I might grab one of the stands StevenC mentioned above though, should mitigate the issue since the legs are set in a V and you can hang it from the hook up top since this isn’t a headless. I actually really like the Fender universal stands for my headless guitars and hoped it might work for these, but it just doesn’t seem to want to sit nicely for me!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Oh shit, hey @HighGain510.


----------



## Quiet Coil

HighGain510 said:


> The version I have is the 5-guitar multi-stand (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004P0MWCU/?tag=sevenstringorg-20) so the base is fixed. You can rotate the neck holder up or down and move the spacers to try to pinch the body in place, but the actual shape of the body doesn’t allow it to sit nicely on these stands unfortunately.



I’ve got the very same one, maybe take another look? Might not fix your problem anyway.

EDIT: I don’t have it in front of me and I’m wracking my brain trying to remember how exactly what I’m referring to (it’s not obvious in the pictures). I think it just shifts the point where the front horizontal base stops/locks (higher or lower).


----------



## HighGain510

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Which Hercules stand do you have? I have a Hercules 5-stand and it work well with my J-Larada (and Strandberg).



I think they only make one 5 instrument stand? I’ll check again, I didn’t have much time to mess with it earlier, but perhaps if I flip it the opposite direction it will line up better for the body shape. Do you have the face of your guitar facing to the left or the right?



MaxOfMetal said:


> Oh shit, hey @HighGain510.



Hey man! Yes, I’m still alive (barely )!



Noisy Humbucker said:


> I’ve got the very same one, maybe take another look? Might not fix your problem anyway.



I’ll have to check if flipping the guitar to face the opposite direction works. I normally have my guitars facing with the top of the body to the right, but maybe if I flip it to have the top facing the left, it will sit nicely on the stand? I didn’t have much time to mess with it earlier, but that may be all that’s needed for it to sit in those stands. I’ll check again shortly I guess!


----------



## Quiet Coil

HighGain510 said:


> I’ll have to check if flipping the guitar to face the opposite direction works. I normally have my guitars facing with the top of the body to the right, but maybe if I flip it to have the top facing the left, it will sit nicely on the stand? I didn’t have much time to mess with it earlier, but that may be all that’s needed for it to sit in those stands. I’ll check again shortly I guess!



If I’m thinking of it correctly this would likely either solve your problem... or make it worse. 

With the front base up higher the guitars sit even more upright (typical body shapes anyway).


----------



## Quiet Coil

MaxOfMetal said:


> Oh shit, hey @HighGain510.


Between @HighGain510 and @pondman this has been a great week for reunions!


----------



## StevenC

HighGain510 said:


> I saw that the other day and was curious about those, although I have four of the multistands now so I’m trying to avoid adding yet another huge set of stands if I can avoid it!  I didn’t even think of the single Hercules grip stand, that might work actually...
> 
> 
> 
> The version I have is the 5-guitar multi-stand (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004P0MWCU/?tag=sevenstringorg-20) so the base is fixed. You can rotate the neck holder up or down and move the spacers to try to pinch the body in place, but the actual shape of the body doesn’t allow it to sit nicely on these stands unfortunately.
> 
> 
> 
> Haha yeah man, if you re-read my post I actually mentioned that’s the individual stand I tried that wouldn’t work. I can move the two bottom hooks on there to the right levels for the bottom of the body, but since the bass side of the body is heavier than the treble side, the body wants to lean to the left. Normally you could try to use that little hook arm on the left side to keep it steady, however there’s enough weight leaning sideways that it can actually push the arm out of the way even when you screw down the little lock knob. Not something I really want to risk on a $3K guitar!  I might grab one of the stands StevenC mentioned above though, should mitigate the issue since the legs are set in a V and you can hang it from the hook up top since this isn’t a headless. I actually really like the Fender universal stands for my headless guitars and hoped it might work for these, but it just doesn’t seem to want to sit nicely for me!


I use one of these Hercules trees because they work for any shape:

http://herculesstands.com/internati...nstrument/guitar/multiple-stands/gs526b-plus/


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@HighGain510 : I’m not at home right now so I can’t take a pic, but googling here’s what I found; this guy has some unconventional body shapes on a Hercules 5-rack. 

Edit: I remember now that I started a thread on this topic in 2018: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...r-strandberg-and-kiesel-vader-guitars.332747/


----------



## thetourist

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @HighGain510 : I’m not at home right now so I can’t take a pic, but googling here’s what I found; this guy has some unconventional body shapes on a Hercules 5-rack.
> 
> Edit: I remember now that I started a thread on this topic in 2018: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...r-strandberg-and-kiesel-vader-guitars.332747/



That looks like Bulb's.


----------



## Lemonbaby

thetourist said:


> That looks like Bulb's.


Yep. Nice 5-digit-Dollars collection...


----------



## HighGain510

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @HighGain510 : I’m not at home right now so I can’t take a pic, but googling here’s what I found; this guy has some unconventional body shapes on a Hercules 5-rack.
> 
> Edit: I remember now that I started a thread on this topic in 2018: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...r-strandberg-and-kiesel-vader-guitars.332747/



Yep this is what I was talking about. I normally have mine facing the opposite direction, but that doesn’t work for this shape. I tried flipping it around to face the opposite direction (top of the guitar facing left) and it will work if you set it down that way.


----------



## AmoryDrive

New FAQ section was posted on the site, includes rough dates of upcoming runs. Big takeaway is the WMI made one seems to be referred to as "Legion"

*When will the next batch of Laradas become available?*

The following are estimates and are subject to change:

US Larada 8: April

US Larada 6: April

J Larada 7: July

Larada Legion 7 & 8: August

Space T: June

Please be sure to sign up for our newsletter to get latest updates once we get closer to release time.



*When can we expect a headless/9-string/bass/baritone/tremolo version of the Larada?*

We are consistently working on expanding the Larada line with different features. Any concrete information on upcoming models will be shared exclusively via this website and our social media channels.



*Can I pre-order or put a deposit on a build?*

We are not accepting pre-orders or deposits at this time. All finished guitars will be listed as they are completed and will be available for immediate purchase & shipping.



*Can I spec a custom order?*

We are not offering a custom shop at this time. All available guitars will be listed on this website and our social media channels.


----------



## Albake21

Really happy to see this FAQ. It finally shows that the brand is figuring everything out and is prepared for the next batches. I hope to one day try an Abasi.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Is Larada legion wmi?


----------



## Hollowway

AmoryDrive said:


> *When can we expect a headless/9-string/bass/baritone/tremolo version of the Larada?*



That sounds like a question I would ask. I’d love a headless 9 string bass baritone with trem version!


----------



## jephjacques

AmoryDrive said:


> *Can I spec a custom order?*
> 
> We are not offering a custom shop at this time. All available guitars will be listed on this website and our social media channels.



this is the smartest thing they could possibly have done


----------



## ChugThisBoy

I was away from this thread for a while so can anyone tell me if there was some info aboue EU dealers along the way? I asked this before and Tosin just liked my post so there's some hope heh.


----------



## klaim

I'm sad that no more Larada J 8 will not be available this year, but in the same time I probably won't have the budget this year to get one if it's suddenly availabe, so I guess I can wait for next year.

Personally the main change I would like to try is the headless. I'm not a fan of old-school designs, I'm a future-oriented uber-meta-nerd from cyberspace. I need a guitar I can wear with neon-bordered chrome uniglasses.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

ChugThisBoy said:


> I was away from this thread for a while so can anyone tell me if there was some info aboue EU dealers along the way? I asked this before and Tosin just liked my post so there's some hope heh.



None that I know of. All buying options are online; ships worldwide afaik.


----------



## ChugThisBoy

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> None that I know of. All buying options are online; ships worldwide afaik.



Yeah but import taxes in Poland would kill me


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Yeah, they were not cheap in Canada, but my rationale was that a physical retailer would have to pay those taxes and would raise the price accordingly anyhow.


----------



## spudmunkey

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Yeah, they were not cheap in Canada, but my rationale was that a physical retailer would have to pay those taxes and would raise the price accordingly anyhow.



Or even if they didn't have to pay the same taxes, it's unlikely the supplier could provide a wholesale discount large enough to off-set the retailer's margin/markup so you'd also have a higher price, that way.


----------



## Hollowway

jephjacques said:


> this is the smartest thing they could possibly have done


Agreed. I’m all about buying in-stocks now because I’m sick of giving a deposit to a luthier or dealer and then going through the five stages of grief when I realize I’ll never see the guitar I ordered.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Talk of Anderton’s stocking it? They had the pedals so I can imagine they’ll have some Laradas, also thomann with probably get some in the sell claas so if abasi can make that connection it’s feasible/probable?


----------



## yngve knudsen

What is US Larada 8 and Larada Legion? Can anyone tell me the prices of these?

*
When will the next batch of Laradas become available?*

The following are estimates and are subject to change:

US Larada 8: April

US Larada 6: April

J Larada 7: July

Larada Legion 7 & 8: August

Space T: June

Please be sure to sign up for our newsletter to get latest updates once we get closer to release time.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I’m assuming the Larada legion is the made in Korea ones which will probably be pushed back because of what corona virus is doing over there, the numbers relate to the number of strings so US Larada 8 is an 8 string


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Just peeped an email from Ivan at Abasi. All the former custom orders at the USA shop will be painted satin necks now, same as the NAMM Space T. And probably all the builds dropping in April from the US shop. Just FYI.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Like painted color over even natural wood? Could be cool but if I ordered a wild flame neck or wenge neck I'd prefer to see it than a color match finish. Anymore context on the change?


----------



## Inceptic

Painted satin necks will kill the G.A.S. for me for sure...


----------



## StevenC

Will they still be pink?


----------



## Hollowway

I wonder why the painted necks? Seems like more work, but maybe people prefer that?


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> I wonder why the painted necks? Seems like more work, but maybe people prefer that?



Were the US ones bolt on, or...I'd imagine if it were anything other than bolt-on, a uniform sprayed finish is easier than a taped finish line.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

When paying this kinda money tho you’d expect to be able to see the neckwood


----------



## jephjacques

StevenC said:


> Will they still be pink?



the only important question


----------



## olejason

Surely they're not trying to paint a wenge neck? Not sure that would even work without a ton of grain filler and primer


----------



## glassmoon0fo

olejason said:


> Surely they're not trying to paint a wenge neck? Not sure that would even work without a ton of grain filler and primer


Nah the necks on the US builds are all maple


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Tosins story with the six string with Floyd and line six is beaut and what I wish I had


----------



## Hollowway

Jack McGoldrick said:


> When paying this kinda money tho you’d expect to be able to see the neckwood


You’d think that in a fancy restaurant at these prices you could keep the snails off the plate!


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> You’d think that in a fancy restaurant at these prices you could keep the snails off the plate!



And would you look at this wine list? Not a fresh bottle in the whole place.


----------



## stupidweakbaby

I know the world's basically on fire and the stock market is total garbage right now, but is anyone else worried that coronavirus might impact April's USA Master Series 8 release?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Doubt it’d affect us like but the import line probably


----------



## jephjacques

Haha if you can afford to worry about that you’ve got a pretty sweet life my man


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Doubt it’d affect us like but the import line probably



Doubt it’d affect US LINE but the import line probably********

Very very very sorry I made a mistake


----------



## NCeuRign

Given we're approaching April, can someone remind me ballpark figures for USA Larada 8s? I know it was mentioned on here a while ago but I'm not smart enough to find it by searching.


----------



## jephjacques

high $3Ks I think?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

They’re changing the part judging by the andertons video so us ones will be more expensive


----------



## StevenC

The last posted in this thread was $3300 for a US 8.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

To those thinking of getting a J Larada, my mini review is finally up: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-abasi-concepts-j-larada-7.340917/

I’m glad I sold my Prog 7 to get this guitar, it definitely suits me more. Inspiration machine.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Tosin posted his personal US Larada from the upcoming run in Champagne


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Thoughts?


----------



## klaim

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Thoughts?



I'm definitely buying (assuming I'll have some money for guitars at that point).

I already have an Agile acoustic 8 string, but it's a folk.


----------



## olejason

Curious if he means a legit classical guitar or more of a modern hybrid approach that casuals would be willing to pay for.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Also wondering if it’s an April fools


----------



## Bastian93

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Also wondering if it’s an April fools



nah, why would he hide an April fools joke in that text? 99% of people who see that instagram post are not gonna read that far through it anyways. Also I only just noticed that Plini likes the idea (see top comment), so he has to do it now 

I would say a 8 string nylon would fit well into the Abasi / AAS brand. I wouldn't be interessted in one since I can barely play a 6 string nylon, though.


----------



## Albake21

I'm not sure why you guys are questioning it. Tosin uses modern nylon guitars pretty often and even uses them within his AAL material. Doesn't surprise me at all he would want to make his own, I just don't know if there is a market for it.


----------



## Seabeast2000

olejason said:


> Curious if he means a legit classical guitar or more of a modern hybrid approach that casuals would be willing to pay for.



Modern hybrid concept in composites. That would be interesting.


----------



## Solodini

Tbf, their clean tones tend to sound like piezos anyway, in my opinion, so cut out the middle man and just plug the nylon in. **shrug**


----------



## lurè

If it's true i guess it will probably be based on the Godin Multiac he's playing on the video. 
It's a modern concept of classical nylon guitar: bolt on neck, very thin body, string spacing and neck dimensions of an electric guitar and MIDI output.


----------



## Dratch

Got an email from Ivan today. American Laradas will soon be in the wild!

Here’s mine:












29EC53BD-F60D-4DEE-9D51-F5EE6BAA7E2B



__ Dratch
__ Apr 7, 2020


----------



## stupidweakbaby

Dratch said:


> Got an email from Ivan today. American Laradas will soon be in the wild!
> 
> Here’s mine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 29EC53BD-F60D-4DEE-9D51-F5EE6BAA7E2B
> 
> 
> 
> __ Dratch
> __ Apr 7, 2020


HELL YEAH

Any further details about the timing? Like one week from now, three days from now, tomorrow at 11:32 AM UTC-6?


----------



## Dratch

stupidweakbaby said:


> HELL YEAH
> 
> Any further details about the timing? Like one week from now, three days from now, tomorrow at 11:32 AM UTC-6?



Didn’t get any specifics with regard to timing, but I’ll keep you posted!


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

J Larada re-stock is mid-summer, right ?


----------



## StevenC

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> J Larada re-stock is mid-summer, right ?


Last I heard was July and it was on schedule, but that was two or three weeks ago.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

My Mom’s memorial build is on the ways well


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Got my build in today, havnt been able to put it down for more than a few minutes. It’s really something else guys, form and function are flawless and it’s just striking in person. I’m not one of those that get pissed if the rear route isn’t polished as Clinton’s pole, but if I was, I’d feel like Abasi had me covered. Plus it’s so easy to play it took me a few minutes to adjust to how much movement the string spacing and scale saves me. I never thought I’d want anything more after strandberg dropped their mass market builds, the Larada is stuff I thought I MIGHT want and turns out I DO. You know, honeymoon talk. Fuckin love this thing so far tho.


----------



## glassmoon0fo




----------



## MaxOfMetal

That color is gorgeous. Congrats!


----------



## cardinal

Nice!!!!


----------



## StevenC

Oh wow, that's stunning!

(stupid coronavirus stopping me buying one)


----------



## bzhang9

anyone bothered that for the price, nothing is recessed? Screws, knobs, back plate, jack, all just sitting high. And that backplate looks thick as hell.


----------



## spudmunkey

bzhang9 said:


> anyone bothered that for the price, nothing is recessed? Screws, knobs, back plate, jack, all just sitting high. And that backplate looks thick as hell.



I can't speak to the thickness of the back plate, but as far as the recessed controls and plates, I guess one question is: how thin/thick is the body? Is it possible that the only way they could recess controls and/or the back plate be to make the body itself thicker, which would add weight? For example, the Ibanez S is very thin around the outside, and that's why they have to use that plastic piece around the pickups witch, because there's not enough room if they fully recessed the switch.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

I mean, I’ve been playing it all day and havnt once thought about the backplate. 

for the record it’s fairly thin, and surprisingly light for an essentially single cut, non headless 8


----------



## StevenC

bzhang9 said:


> anyone bothered that for the price, nothing is recessed? Screws, knobs, back plate, jack, all just sitting high. And that backplate looks thick as hell.


Eh, aesthetic decision. I think they were recessed on the J Laradas, so if they want them to look that way, it doesn't bother me. Don't see what's wrong with any of the screws or knobs?


----------



## Pietjepieter

Wouw that looks great!

Great color, also the neck joint is the best!!

HNGD!! maybe ones in the feature and those will be available in Europe i get one.... 

How are those tuners? They look kind of cool, but are they working good?


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Pietjepieter said:


> Wouw that looks great!
> 
> Great color, also the neck joint is the best!!
> 
> HNGD!! maybe ones in the feature and those will be available in Europe i get one....
> 
> How are those tuners? They look kind of cool, but are they working good?



I was wondering how they’d work out and honestly they’re no different than tuning a strandberg with the Teflon washers. Very accurate, and don’t take much to get moving. Plus aesthetically they’re a great choice imo.


----------



## xzacx

glassmoon0fo said:


> View attachment 79556
> View attachment 79557
> View attachment 79558
> View attachment 79559
> View attachment 79560
> View attachment 79561
> View attachment 79562
> View attachment 79563



Man this color is so nice. If there was a US-made 7 available right now I'd have a hard time passing it up. (although I think I remember seeing the specs and thinking the scale length was too long). I just love the look of these though and feel like I'd try it out anyway.


----------



## Orzech

Wow these look great  Is there a more specific release date for the USA series?


----------



## Albake21

Orzech said:


> Wow these look great  Is there a more specific release date for the USA series?


That is the USA, isn't it? I remember a post back saying that the USA ones were close to finishing and that all of them would now have painted necks. Where as the J ones have natural neck.


----------



## glassmoon0fo

Albake21 said:


> That is the USA, isn't it? I remember a post back saying that the USA ones were close to finishing and that all of them would now have painted necks. Where as the J ones have natural neck.


It is indeed


----------



## Pietjepieter

glassmoon0fo said:


> I was wondering how they’d work out and honestly they’re no different than tuning a strandberg with the Teflon washers. Very accurate, and don’t take much to get moving. Plus aesthetically they’re a great choice imo.


yeah that was also what i was thinking while tuning a headless, properly even more easy since more space for your hand! 
And they look killer, whole guitar does!!


----------



## Dratch

Got my Larada yesterday and I have to echo @glassmoon0fo’s sentiment, the Larada is incredible! I was instantly compatible with the scale length and the set up was perfect right out of the box. Given the Laradas weight, or lack thereof, and the thinness of the neck, it’s almost hard to believe this is an 8 string! As for attention to detail, Grover’s shop has exceeded expectations. No sharp frets, no excess glue protruding from crevices and the neck-through construction looks and feels great. 

I will have to acclimate to playing in the upper register and the toggle position, but I feel that this will come naturally. All in all, this guitar is extremely comfortable in classical and standard position and it plays and sounds amazing. Good job Grover and Tosin, you knocked it out of the park! 

Disclaimer - honeymoon phase is in full effect; however, barring some outrageous occurrence, I can see this guitar being a go-to in my collection!


----------



## Hollowway

@glassmoon0fo I saw that on FB. That’s so cool, and it’s pretty much pushed me into the “I need to get one” camp!


----------



## Hollowway

Save me the trouble, guys: what is the price on the USA and the J models? (8 string) I don’t wanna page through this thread.


----------



## StevenC

Hollowway said:


> Save me the trouble, guys: what is the price on the USA and the J models? (8 string) I don’t wanna page through this thread.


$3300 for USA and $2700 for Japanese, I think. Maybe +/-100.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I'm not sure I understand these numbers @StevenC and @Hollowway 

My understanding for 7-strings:

USA 7-strings Laradas: around 1800 USD
Japanese 7-string Laradads: around 3000 USD

Which kinda makes sense because Japanese models are more elaborate.


----------



## StevenC

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I'm not sure I understand these numbers @StevenC and @Hollowway
> 
> My understanding for 7-strings:
> 
> USA 7-strings Laradas: around 1800 USD
> Japanese 7-string Laradads: around 3000 USD
> 
> Which kinda makes sense because Japanese models are more elaborate.


The info we have in this thread from Tosin is:

WMI $1800 bolt on wenge
Japan $2700 bolt on wenge
USA $3200/3300 painted maple set neck
Special carbon top USA $4000

Presumably the price difference is due to labour cost.

As I remember the Js were approximately that price on the store when available.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

You’re right, just re looked at the bill for my J Larada hehe. I mixed up WMI and US models (sorry about that).


----------



## narad

StevenC said:


> The info we have in this thread from Tosin is:
> 
> WMI $1800 bolt on wenge
> Japan $2700 bolt on wenge
> USA $3200/3300 painted maple set neck
> Special carbon top USA $4000
> 
> Presumably the price difference is due to labour cost.
> 
> As I remember the Js were approximately that price on the store when available.



Are there pics of this special carbon top?


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> Are there pics of this special carbon top?


The black thing from NAMM. You've seen it, it's meant to look like quilt maple.


----------



## narad

StevenC said:


> The black thing from NAMM. You've seen it, it's meant to look like quilt maple.



Oh, that's less cool than I was hoping for.


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> Oh, that's less cool than I was hoping for.


I know


----------



## spudmunkey

StevenC said:


> The black thing from NAMM. You've seen it, it's meant to look like quilt maple.


I believe it's from this guy:
https://instagram.com/john.blazy_dichrolam_llc?igshid=c686bvz3dnd5


----------



## KnightBrolaire

spudmunkey said:


> I believe it's from this guy:
> https://instagram.com/john.blazy_dichrolam_llc?igshid=c686bvz3dnd5


yup. he makes em


----------



## Fluence of Shred

THis is a very long thread, so i dont want to hear UTSFE nonsense.....like as i tried to post this message, two more post showed up! Incredible, like its so popular, and i have never seen or heard anyone play this

Has anyone here bought/played one of the 8 strings?
How is the sound and tone in comparison to, IMO, the mother of 8 strings - the Ibanez M80M....

[[if applicable, can you comare the neck/profiles and give a quick little rundown of what you feel when its in your hands, if you have the predilections for shred and speed of course....]]


----------



## AltecGreen

Fluence of Shred said:


> THis is a very long thread, so i dont want to hear UTSFE nonsense.....like as i tried to post this message, two more post showed up! Incredible, like its so popular, and i have never seen or heard anyone play this



Here's someone playing one at the G-Club store in Shibuya. Hmmm....I think his name is Tosin Abasi.


----------



## StevenC

Fluence of Shred said:


> THis is a very long thread, so i dont want to hear UTSFE nonsense.....like as i tried to post this message, two more post showed up! Incredible, like its so popular, and i have never seen or heard anyone play this
> 
> Has anyone here bought/played one of the 8 strings?
> How is the sound and tone in comparison to, IMO, the mother of 8 strings - the Ibanez M80M....
> 
> [[if applicable, can you comare the neck/profiles and give a quick little rundown of what you feel when its in your hands, if you have the predilections for shred and speed of course....]]


You don't have to read 236 pages to see the 3 people on page 236 who own them.


----------



## Fluence of Shred

StevenC said:


> You don't have to read 236 pages to see the 3 people on page 236 who own them.


That’s a UTSFE in disguise

And it still leaves the question open, btw


----------



## StevenC

Fluence of Shred said:


> That’s a UTSFE in disguise
> 
> And it still leaves the question open, btw


Scrolling?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

UTSFE? I have no clue what that means help me out


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Fluence of Shred said:


> i have never seen or heard anyone play this



Tosin plays one (or several).

You might have heard about this guy (Stephen Taranto).



Aaron Marshall (Intervals) also has one (see his IG).

Neck profile: WMI are C-shaped (afaik).

Japanese are ovoid shaped (slightly akin to a rounded Endureneck). Great feeling neck (I own a J Larada 7 and I have a predilection for shred).

Tone: combination of tone wood (wenge) and Abasi pickups is really good. If you wanna hear it, I posted a NGD very short vid (due to tendinitis recovery) in this forum section a few months ago.

Honeymoon phase is over and I’m playing exclusively this guitar. Tone and neck feel are what made this my main 7-string. Great aesthetics are a definite plus


----------



## Bastian93

Jack McGoldrick said:


> UTSFE? I have no clue what that means help me out



UTFSE means "Use the f-ing search engine", no idea why the S and the F are switched up though, probably a tipo.


----------



## Fluence of Shred

Bastian93 said:


> UTFSE means "Use the f-ing search engine", no idea why the S and the F are switched up though, probably a tipo.


Most likely dude


And thanks for the additional info Hungry man!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Any word on if production of the April USA batch is hindered by the stay at home order in CA?


----------



## Fluence of Shred

Most likely. I emailed them last week without it any reply or auto message to tel me someone would be in touch...


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Justus West has a new six string, straight fret, black, Larada


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

For shred, I’d be curious to try a straight fret 7-string, 25,5” scale length with the Japanese ovoid neck.

That being said, the fanning on the J Larada 7 feels totally natural.


----------



## cardinal

Straight fret Floyd Rose Larada 8 pleazzzzzz


----------



## glassmoon0fo




----------



## Jack McGoldrick

New banner on the website, “New models coming out this month. Please subscribe to our newsletter for updates.”


----------



## cip 123

Jack McGoldrick said:


> New banner on the website, “New models coming out this month. Please subscribe to our newsletter for updates.”


I’d better get that headless finished ASAP...


----------



## Two Panthers

I almost feel fated to not have gotten the Larada 8....I have had an alert, I have a daily reminder, and I have emailed them twice without a response, so If it is for SURE what you want, from what I have heard, you can’t be disappointed; I really, would love to try one out, do you think Guitar Center or Sam Ash might get demos?


----------



## mastapimp

Two Panthers said:


> I really, would love to try one out, do you think Guitar Center or Sam Ash might get demos?


Doubt it...considering there's over 250 guitar centers in the USA and probably only 100 of these guitars have been built across all their models, I don't see them hitting the big distributers any time soon. Production is way too small to start authorizing dealers as big as Sam Ash or Guitar Center. You're best bet is to find a forum member that lives near you that has one or wait for a used one to surface. If tours were still happening, you could probably approach Tosin before/after a show and ask to try one. He was very approachable when I met him a few years back.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Probably not for a while, smaller luthiers have higher output than the abasi brand. Also the whole WMI must be heavily affected with the rest of the world. So hopefully soon but not for ages. I’ve been to near every guitar store in the country of Ireland and haven’t seen a Strandberg or even any 8 string once so I think the only way I’ll see one is if I buy one.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Also has anyone ever had an abasi newsletter before?


----------



## Inceptic

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Also has anyone ever had an abasi newsletter before?


I've never received a newsletter, nor a reply from contacting them.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Inceptic said:


> I've never received a newsletter, nor a reply from contacting them.


I received a reply inviting me to the workshop and then they never told me where it was or when to come.


----------



## Two Panthers

Never: it made it easy for me not to buy from them, like our $4k purchase is their business but they act like they are doing us a favor !


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Weird, I’ve always had an answer in 1-3 days.

On another subject, is this gap between body and neck normal on a J Larada 7? I seems normal is the neck is flush with everything else (pickups, etc). (Don’t pay attention to the uncleanliness, I’ve been playing a lot.)


----------



## cip 123

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Weird, I’ve always had an answer in 1-3 days.
> 
> On another subject, is this gap between body and neck normal on a J Larada 7? I seems normal is the neck is flush with everything else (pickups, etc). (Don’t pay attention to the uncleanliness, I’ve been playing a lot.)
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/49905970728/in/dateposted-public/
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/49905970728/in/dateposted-public
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/49905969418/in/dateposted-public
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/49905970518/in/dateposted-public



That is imo just a silly design flaw. I can’t remember what line they corrected it on but I think they did.


Because of the carve of the neck finishing after that upper bout it creates the gap, if that section of the neck was flat it likely wouldn’t be a problem.


This was a talking point pages and pages ago (you can go back if you can be bothered) and I raised the issue with my own knock off Abasi build considering it could’ve been fixed easily.


I’m sure your J Larada is great, it’s just one of these design things that didn’t get ironed out I think.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

cip 123 said:


> That is imo just a silly design flaw. I can’t remember what line they corrected it on but I think they did.
> 
> 
> Because of the carve of the neck finishing after that upper bout it creates the gap, if that section of the neck was flat it likely wouldn’t be a problem.
> 
> 
> This was a talking point pages and pages ago (you can go back if you can be bothered) and I raised the issue with my own knock off Abasi build considering it could’ve been fixed easily.
> 
> 
> I’m sure your J Larada is great, it’s just one of these design things that didn’t get ironed out I think.



Thanks for the quick answer. To be honest, it's not even visible when you look at someone playing it or if you look at it lying in a case. You really have to turn the guitar to see it. I've had this guitar for a few months now and I love it. I was just curious if any other builds were like that. Thanks again


----------



## cip 123

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Thanks for the quick answer. To be honest, it's not even visible when you look at someone playing it or if you look at it lying in a case. You really have to turn the guitar to see it. I've had this guitar for a few months now and I love it. I was just curious if any other builds were like that. Thanks again


It was addressed a good few pages ago like I said, it was "corrected" on one line which I can't remember. So there are definitely more builds like yours but it looks like a gorgeous guitar, those frets look lovely. And as someone building this shape, I know how darn comfy it is and I haven't even finished my build, I'm pretty jealous I can't afford a real one


----------



## Two Panthers

It seems fine. Have you been “stressing it” in any way for you to be concerned?

And I’m glad they replied to you, obviously you got one. As for me, I wish Icould try one, forget a reply haha


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@cip 123 : can’t wait to see how your build is progressing. It must be satisfying.

@Two Panthers : Yeah, that can be frustrating for sure. Maybe they have a lot to deal with in the current global context.

No stress at all, other than playing it, it’s been in my Hercules 5 rack.


----------



## Avedas

That's the gap I saw on the J Laradas I tried locally. I'm sure it's fine overall, but I could feel the gap with my thumb when I played on the high frets and I didn't like that.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Avedas : I guess it depends on your play style. For me, this guitar has the best feeling neck I can remember. My thumb is nowhere near that gap when I’m in that area of the neck.

I can understand that the body shape could be annoying if you like to wrap your thumb on the top of the neck.


----------



## Avedas

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @Avedas : I guess it depends on your play style. For me, this guitar has the best feeling neck I can remember. My thumb is nowhere near that gap when I’m in that area of the neck.
> 
> I can understand that the body shape could be annoying if you like to wrap your thumb on the top of the neck.


Yeah basically my thumb would get jammed up there every time I went for a giant bend or some wide vibrato. I have my thumb in the middle of the neck 99% of the time but I've found very few players get the right feel and sustain on the bends without getting some extra thumb leverage.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Since the website doesn’t say much in terms of detailed specs, do you guys know if the J Larada 7 has a dual action truss rod?

I’m considering adding a tiny bit of relief on my J Larada 7 wenge neck, but before playing with the truss wheel I wanna know what to expect.

Also, given that wenge is a hard wood, how does that affect neck relief adjustements?

@Avedas : good point, my thumb goes over the neck for vibrato and bends, brain fart on my end. It never bothered me on this guitar. Different strokes for different folks I guess...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Since the website doesn’t say much in terms of detailed specs, do you guys know if the J Larada 7 has a dual action truss rod?
> 
> I’m considering adding a tiny bit of relief on my J Larada 7 wenge neck, but before playing with the truss wheel I wanna know what to expect.
> 
> Also, given that wenge is a hard wood, how does that affect neck relief adjustements?
> 
> @Avedas : good point, my thumb goes over the neck for vibrato and bends, brain fart on my end. It never bothered me on this guitar. Different strokes for different folks I guess...



Give it a quarter turn and see what happens. Measure before and after and use that as a guide. 

Don't worry, unless you hook up a power drill to the damn thing there's very little you can do to hurt anything.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I did not measure, but the neck still appears to be the same (i.e. flat with a mini relief, according to my tap test) after 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn. I use .09 strings (I guess that’s relevant in terms of tension).

I don’t want to morph this thread into a guitar setup guide, but it it normal that I can’t go all the way through the wheel when I insert my key (i.e. it stops midway) ? If you zoom in on this pic of the truss wheel you’ll see that you can’t see all the way through a hole.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I did not measure, but the neck still appears to be the same (i.e. flat with a mini relief, according to my tap test) after 1/4 turn.
> 
> I don’t want to morph this thread into a guitar setup guide, but it it normal that I can’t go all the way through the wheel when I insert my key (i.e. it stops midway) ?



Always measure. That's how these things work. Stuff like "sort of" and "kinda" and "feels like" aren't going to help you set up anything but a headache. 

Some of the spoke wheel rods have the actual rod in the middle, so you won't be able to go all the way through, but you shouldn't need that kind of leverage anyway.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@MaxOfMetal : Thanks for the tips! I'll definitely measure once I receive my string action gauge in a few days. The wheel turns pretty easily anti-clockwise, I could turn it with my finger with minimal force.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Grab a $7 set of feeler gauges, much easier to use when measuring relief. It might seem less accurate since the gauges are a fixed thickness, but it works beautifully.


----------



## cardinal

Without a gauge, press down the D string or so at the first fret and whatever fret where the neck joins the body. Look at the gap between the string and the 7th fret. Tighten the rod a 1/4" turn and that gap should definitely shrink. (I like to just barely see any gap there). 

I really dislike the wheel-adjust rods where you can't get the Allen wrench all the way through. I had a Fender Elite that was incredibly hard to turn the rod with just the nub of the wrench in there.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@cardinal : why do you do the tap test on the D string ? I always thought you wanted to do it on the lowest string and that the aim was to create a straight line (1st and fret where body joins neck) and to tap at the midpoint. In my case, on the B string, that would be 1st-17th frets for the straight line and then tap on the 9th or 10th fret. That’s how I did it anyhow.

As @MaxOfMetal pointed out, the change in relief may be small enough for my eyes to deceive me (I see no change), therefore I’ll use feeler gauge.

Im also planning to have my guitar tech have a quick look at it next week, assuming our government goes with opening non-essential businesses as planned.


----------



## cardinal

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @cardinal : why do you do the tap test on the D string ? I always thought you wanted to do it on the lowest string and that the aim was to create a straight line (1st and fret where body joins neck) and to tap at the midpoint. In my case, on the B string, that would be 1st-17th frets for the straight line and then tap on the 9th or 10th fret. That’s how I did it anyhow.
> 
> As @MaxOfMetal pointed out, the change in relief may be small enough for my eyes to deceive me (I see no change), therefore I’ll use feeler gauge.
> 
> Im also planning to have my guitar tech have a quick look at it next week, assuming our government goes with opening non-essential businesses as planned.



I pick a string in the middle of the neck to check overall relief. I do check the outer strings as well, but that's more to see if there's a twist in the neck.


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Thanks for the quick answer. To be honest, it's not even visible when you look at someone playing it or if you look at it lying in a case. You really have to turn the guitar to see it. I've had this guitar for a few months now and I love it. I was just curious if any other builds were like that. Thanks again



My J Larada is exactly the same. Can't see the gap from the front, but you can from the back.
I don't notice it when playing at all, but I'm a strict thumb behind the neck player with only some deviation for wide bends or vibrato.
But for single cuts when I can't get the thumb over to anchor, I just use my second finger instead, usually with my first behind it, to get that extra oomph to bend or vibrato just right. 

Otherwise my guitar is virtually the same as yours except I have one of the Japan finishes (white with pale blue maple veneer). Fantastic guitars, my number one for sure.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Guitarasaurus_Joey : did you try to adjust the truss rod, in particular adding neck relief (anti-clockwise rotation)?


----------



## jephjacques

I'm 99% sure they're dual-action truss rods. As Max said, you're not going to hurt anything as long as you don't go nuts torquing down on that thing.

I never bother with feeler gauges, I use the Tom Anderson method- fret the first and 15th frets, check the spacing between the string and the 7th fret. I generally like quite a bit of relief on my 8s, so I can really hammer the low strings without fret buzz.


----------



## cip 123

Put it this way, if they're releasing 8 strings with single action Rods, I'd just send them back


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @Guitarasaurus_Joey : did you try to adjust the truss rod, in particular adding neck relief (anti-clockwise rotation)?


Yes, I have done anticlockwise adjustments just fine. 
It's a safe bet to say that the vast majority of guitars come with dual action truss rods now. The exceptions being historic reissues and that type of stuff.
But a guitar with stainless steel frets, multiscale and fishmans? It would be the weirdest design choice to not have dual action truss rod.


----------



## stupidweakbaby

Yeah, yeah, I know the quality is garbage. It's the essence of the image that matters.


----------



## Frostbite

Who the fuck is releasing a guitar with a single action truss rod in 2020


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Frostbite said:


> Who the fuck is releasing a guitar with a single action truss rod in 2020



How it's installed will determine efficacy better than just single vs. double.


----------



## cardinal

Supposedly sounds different, and is lighter I believe.


----------



## luffy747

I’m wondering if the new run is still going to drop this month. Only one more day so doesn’t look like it. Wish they would give some more updates


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Took the J Larada 7 to my luthier today.

@Frostbite : He confirmed what I thought, it does NOT have a dual action truss rod.

As it is, the range of neck reliefs I can obtain via the truss wheel is pretty small.

He thinks this may be due to some rod reinforcement in the neck (e.g. graphite).

I like the relief as it is (almost flat), but I still would have liked to experiment a bit.

That being said, if I didn’t have AC and if humidity rose during the summer, I’d have been a bit worried.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

When will the WMI ones come out? I am wanting one.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> When will the WMI ones come out? I am wanting one.



i am also wanting one, 8 strings were set for the end of summer 2020 and then 7s then 6s (If I remember right), but the pandemic has probably messed the timeline up


----------



## StevenC

They sent out an email today basically saying soon for new USA and J guitars.

EDIT: I guess I forgot to read the email. June 2nd for new guitars.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Anyone know the scale length on the USA 6s ?


----------



## bzhang9

I wonder how much tosin gets to pocket per guitar. Must be a stupid amount otherwise why would he go through all this trouble to leave ibanez after almost finishing his new sig design.


----------



## cip 123

bzhang9 said:


> I wonder how much tosin gets to pocket per guitar. Must be a stupid amount otherwise why would he go through all this trouble to leave ibanez after almost finishing his new sig design.


He left because he couldn't do what he wanted with Ibanez at price anyone could afford.

Say what you want about the prices, if these were built by Ibanez Japan it'd be like the m8m's super expensive, and with not many if any options at all.

Sure there would be money involved, but ultimately, you just couldn't do any of this with Ibanez, as slow as this start has been if he was still with them, there would be no space Tele, no relic, no cat guitar, no Carbon tops etc etc

Also the design your buying now probably isn't the design Ibanez had, given the refinements that would've been made for bolt ons and set necks etc


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

cip 123 said:


> He left because he couldn't do what he wanted with Ibanez at price anyone could afford.
> 
> Say what you want about the prices, if these were built by Ibanez Japan it'd be like the m8m's super expensive, and with not many if any options at all.
> 
> Sure there would be money involved, but ultimately, you just couldn't do any of this with Ibanez, as slow as this start has been if he was still with them, there would be no space Tele, no relic, no cat guitar, no Carbon tops etc etc
> 
> Also the design your buying now probably isn't the design Ibanez had, given the refinements that would've been made for bolt ons and set necks etc



The J Laradas are very close to the original Ibanez specs.
But Tosin wanted multiple finish options, different neck woods, different body woods, 6,7 and 8 string etc. 
Vai has the largest amount of Signature models at Ibanez right now, and even then it's less options than what Abasi has.


----------



## Vyn

Guitarasaurus_Joey said:


> The J Laradas are very close to the original Ibanez specs.
> But Tosin wanted multiple finish options, different neck woods, different body woods, 6,7 and 8 string etc.
> Vai has the largest amount of Signature models at Ibanez right now, and even then it's less options than what Abasi has.



Which is significant because Ibanez would bend over backwards to make whatever Vai would want. The only other highly customised/unquie instruments in the artist roster at the moment are the Meshuggah sigs and the Fireman (which was done by Paul Gilbert, another artist Ibanez would basically do anything for).


----------



## StevenC




----------



## glassmoon0fo

Dude is high as giraffe pussy. Subscribed.


----------



## Frostbite

glassmoon0fo said:


> Dude is high as giraffe pussy. Subscribed.


Instant subscribe


----------



## jephjacques

lol tosin owns


----------



## StevenC

I guess they were leaving this interview until the guitars were ready.


----------



## Spicypickles

glassmoon0fo said:


> Dude is high as giraffe pussy. Subscribed.


Giraffe ass is my preferred vernacular, but equally funny. SUb’d


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Anyone know price on USA laradas? I want to know if I am risking my fiance being super mad LOL


----------



## StevenC

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Anyone know price on USA laradas? I want to know if I am risking my fiance being super mad LOL


The last we were told was $3200/$3300


----------



## xzacx

I would probably give one of these a shot if 7s were going to be included with the USAs today—hopefully there will be some in the future.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Anyone know price on USA laradas? I want to know if I am risking my fiance being super mad LOL



Prices are in the FAQ section of their website, which is a subsection of their Contact section.

https://abasiconcepts.com/pages/contact-faq


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

No Larada import 6?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Finally, I went to see my luthier today for a more in depth inspection of my J Larada 7. Last time he only looked at it from afar while I did manipulations (due to social distancing restrictions in my country).

Those restrictions are now relaxed and he looked at it hands on, including unscrewing the neck and inspecting the truss rod.

Other than minor fret leveling, everything is fine. The rod is in fact dual action, but has a bit higher number of wheel turns necessary to go from one action to another (from neck concavity to convexity) than what he (or I) was used to.

Initially, I had stopped unscrewing counter clockwise after a few turns because the wheel felt loose (by fear of unscrewing the whole thing), which was dumb and due to my inexperience.


----------



## stupidweakbaby

Looks like the master series is up now!

...no pink 8 string though... ;_______;


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Well that sold out quickly :O


----------



## StevenC

They really meant it when they said "relatively small". I'm not buying one that isn't pink, so not so disappointed I didn't have the money today.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

So nobody here got one?


----------



## StevenC

USA/J comparison

Still not sure if sage or chalk is the Ibanez colour.


----------



## klaim

What's that plug socket in the USA version on the electronics block?


----------



## StevenC

klaim said:


> What's that plug socket in the USA version on the electronics block?


Fishman charger


----------



## klaim

You mean the J versions don't have them? I thought all the Laradas had them.


----------



## StevenC

klaim said:


> You mean the J versions don't have them? I thought all the Laradas had them.


They all have Fishman pickups, but only the USA has the charger.


----------



## klaim

StevenC said:


> They all have Fishman pickups, but only the USA has the charger.



Ok! So you have to open the plaque to change the batteries with the J version?


----------



## StevenC

klaim said:


> Ok! So you have to open the plaque to change the batteries with the J version?


I assume so. @HungryGuitarStudent has one and could confirm for you.


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

StevenC said:


> I assume so. @HungryGuitarStudent has one and could confirm for you.


Yeap, you have to open the back.
Not a huge deal. The batteries last for a while. Had my Larada for a few weeks now, put in a lot of hours with it and still the first battery .


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@klaim: I agree, really not a big deal. I’ve been playing with mine for 2 months now and I haven’t changed battery (put in a new one when I got the guitar). To give you an idea, I play 3-4 hour sessions 4-5 days a week, can’t do more yet due to tendinitis recovery.

If it ever bothers me, I’ll have my luthier put in a Fishman USB rechargeable battery pack in the back.

Besides the minor inconvenience of unscrewing a plate, the main disadvantage that I see is that battery output wanes towards the end of its life, which can affect tone when the battery has less juice. As far as I know, Fishman advertise the battery pack as lasting 100+ hours and having a constant output.

Does the master series have the ovoid neck? The wenge assymetrical neck (and the tone) on the J Larada is what makes it my goto 7-string.


----------



## StevenC

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @klaim: I agree, really not a big deal. I’ve been playing with mine for 2 months now and I haven’t changed battery (put in a new one when I got the guitar). To give you an idea, I play 3-4 hour sessions 4-5 days a week, can’t do more yet due to tendinitis recovery.
> 
> If it ever bothers me, I’ll have my luthier put in a Fishman USB rechargeable battery pack in the back.
> 
> Besides the minor inconvenience of unscrewing a plate, the main disadvantage that I see is that battery output wanes towards the end of its life, which can affect tone when the battery has less juice. As far as I know, Fishman advertise the battery pack as lasting 100+ hours and having a constant output.
> 
> Does the master series have the ovoid neck? The wenge assymetrical neck (and the tone) on the J Larada is what makes it my goto 7-string.


Nope, J Laradas are the only ones with the asymmetrical neck. USA has a regular shape and I think so will the WMI series.


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

StevenC said:


> Nope, J Laradas are the only ones with the asymmetrical neck. USA has a regular shape and I think so will the WMI series.


This is why I am eyeing off a J Larada 8 on reverb. The neck on the J Laradas is worth the price of entry alone. My favourite neck profile of any guitar I have played so far.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Be careful, from a quick look on reverb the Laradas there look like they’re from a Run from the USA from a few years ago that had serious problems


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Be careful, from a quick look on reverb the Laradas there look like they’re from a Run from the USA from a few years ago that had serious problems


No, there's a couple if J Laradas on Reverb, too, in Japan. The blue and red and natural with quilt top, Japan only versions.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Ahhhh okay ignore me then


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

I already have one of the Japan exclusive colors haha. J Larada 7 in white.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Anyone know the target date for the pink, sage, etc. 6-strings whose pics were posted a few months ago? Is the back of neck gloss, satin or oil for those guitars? 25.5 scale length on a C-shaped neck? Fixed bridge? Currently shopping for a 6-string...


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Was talking with my local luthier and I may just go to him, I’ve been holding out for an abasi for like two years now and I’m sorta giving up


----------



## StevenC

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Anyone know the target date for the pink, sage, etc. 6-strings whose pics were posted a few months ago? Is the back of neck gloss, satin or oil for those guitars? 25.5 scale length on a C-shaped neck? Fixed bridge? Currently shopping for a 6-string...


Those were presumably some previous custom orders. Therefore would be 25.5 regular necks and probably painted necks.

Kinda surprised we haven't seen any of these pop up used yet.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Oh, I see. So no 6 strings in the near future (except the sold out Legion and Space T).


----------



## jyym

What is the nut width on the larada 8?


----------



## glassmoon0fo

StevenC said:


> Kinda surprised we haven't seen any of these pop up used yet.



im not, they’re fuckin dope lol


----------



## bassisace

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Oh, I see. So no 6 strings in the near future (except the sold out Legion and Space T).



I had the same question, i.e. if they'll release a fixed bridge six string like Justus West's guitar (not interested in Space T). I wrote them an email and a message on Instagram, no news for a long while. I guess I'll consider another brand for a six string if I don't get any news in the next couple of weeks.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

bassisace said:


> I had the same question, i.e. if they'll release a fixed bridge six string like Justus West's guitar (not interested in Space T). I wrote them an email and a message on Instagram, no news for a long while. I guess I'll consider another brand for a six string if I don't get any news in the next couple of weeks.



i literally had this conversation with @HungryGuitarStudent. If I could get a fan fret fixed bridge six I’d be sold


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Jack McGoldrick said:


> i literally had this conversation with @HungryGuitarStudent. If I could get a fan fret fixed bridge six I’d be sold



Hahaha, yeah we talked about that literally 1-2 days ago. It’s unfortunate that they’re not more specific about their release calendar, specially for 6-strings, but with everything going on in the world right now it’s totally understandable. It must be a real headache managing production and distribution these days.


----------



## Pyrolith

StevenC said:


> Nope, J Laradas are the only ones with the asymmetrical neck. USA has a regular shape and I think so will the WMI series.


Any clue why the master series wouldn't feature the asymetrical neck ?
It seems strange to me since this is one of the main reasons I want one of Tosins creations


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

More stuff being made available today, 6s and 8s


----------



## StevenC

Pyrolith said:


> Any clue why the master series wouldn't feature the asymetrical neck ?
> It seems strange to me since this is one of the main reasons I want one of Tosins creations


Same reason it's not got the wenge neck. Less complicated for Grover.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Hopefully they do not just instantly sell out.


----------



## jyym

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Hopefully they do not just instantly sell out.


why wouldn't they?

edit: anyone know the nut width on the larada 8?


----------



## cip 123

Pyrolith said:


> Any clue why the master series wouldn't feature the asymetrical neck ?
> It seems strange to me since this is one of the main reasons I want one of Tosins creations


Just buy a regular one and a chisel


----------



## jyym

4 hour window to generate lots of refreshes :|


----------



## StevenC

Again all sold in seconds


----------



## Fizz

The purple one looks BADASS. If it had the asymmetrical neck woulda snatched that up quick


----------



## jyym

sold out

edit: I guess no one wants the aqua dip spartan 6?


----------



## Ninjoma

I got the purple one! Sorry friends.


----------



## Jared Strack

If anyone who got a master series 8 today might be enticed to part with it for a generous sum of money on top of the purchase price please contact me privately on here, thanks


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

jym said:


> sold out
> 
> edit: I guess no one wants the aqua dip spartan 6?



I’m a student, couldn’t afford berklee so if someone wants to cheer me up with that one, I’d be v happy thanks.


----------



## jyym

Guess the next step is using a sneaker drop bot on the site. Really a shame.


----------



## Jared Strack

I’m so pissed I had the green one in my cart and was typing in my info and then when I went to pay apparently the particular browser I was using had disabled cookies so I had to refresh to fix and by that time it was too late. That’s pretty messed up that they have such a demand and won’t make more of the ones that their customers clamor for. I understand the scarcity principle and what that does for the value but they could have restocked a couple of times and still kept that tactic in tact. This was just rediculous


----------



## Fizz

Aqua dip sold, all gone now. Those were some cool as hell finishes


----------



## stupidweakbaby

I finally got a pink guitar. I’m so happy (and exhausted from being obsessed with these for so long).


----------



## I play music

What? The 6 strings have nickel frets?! That surprised me.


----------



## klaim

I want the green one and the DAT PVRP master XD
Well I can dream.


----------



## jephjacques

Jared Strack said:


> I’m so pissed I had the green one in my cart and was typing in my info and then when I went to pay apparently the particular browser I was using had disabled cookies so I had to refresh to fix and by that time it was too late. That’s pretty messed up that they have such a demand and won’t make more of the ones that their customers clamor for. I understand the scarcity principle and what that does for the value but they could have restocked a couple of times and still kept that tactic in tact. This was just rediculous



Given all the problems they had in the past with rushed builds and quality control, they absolutely should not "just make more" right now.


----------



## Jared Strack

jephjacques said:


> Given all the problems they had in the past with rushed builds and quality control, they absolutely should not "just make more" right now.





jephjacques said:


> Given all the problems they had in the past with rushed builds and quality control, they absolutely should not "just make more" right now.





jephjacques said:


> Given all the problems they had in the past with rushed builds and quality control, they absolutely should not "just make more" right now.





jephjacques said:


> Given all the problems they had in the past with rushed builds and quality control, they absolutely should not "just make more" right now.



while I agree with you that they should definitely not put out instruments they can’t stand behind, that doesn’t stop them from putting out another run or two of each model. Even if it took another 3-4 months before they restock at least it wouldn’t make the transaction piece feel like it’s a Black Friday cut throat Walmart grab.


----------



## Turdsandwich

Jared Strack said:


> while I agree with you that they should definitely not put out instruments they can’t stand behind, that doesn’t stop them from putting out another run or two of each model. Even if it took another 3-4 months before they restock at least it wouldn’t make the transaction piece feel like it’s a Black Friday cut throat Walmart grab.



I did not get a Larada! Wah!


----------



## Jared Strack

Turdsandwich said:


> I did not get a Larada! Wah!


Lol responding to my complaining by complaining about my complaining. Very original


----------



## Turdsandwich

I will properly respond with a photo of my new Larada once it arrives


----------



## Jared Strack

when I grow up I want to be real troll like you


----------



## Turdsandwich




----------



## Jonathan20022

Jared Strack said:


> while I agree with you that they should definitely not put out instruments they can’t stand behind, that doesn’t stop them from putting out another run or two of each model. Even if it took another 3-4 months before they restock at least it wouldn’t make the transaction piece feel like it’s a Black Friday cut throat Walmart grab.



A few more guitars wouldn't have made this any less of a quick sell out.

Unfortunately for some businesses and *especially *Abasi, it's pretty imperative to both not rush the final product, but also fuel their finances through the batch of guitars they're able to finish. Sucks you missed out on one, but remember that we're in the middle of a pandemic. I'm sure your ergo 8 string can wait in lieu of the impacts this is having on all industries.


----------



## Jared Strack

I don’t disagree with u or the previous poster on the quality control at all. I think we can all agree nobody wants a shit guitar put out for the sake of volume. But I disagree with the idea that another run , 2 or three of such popular guitars couldn’t or shouldnt go out in a time frame appropriate to produce them at top quality. There’s just something that feels a little bit elitist about making something so scarce. This was an opinion I had well before the pandemic. He may rectify this in the future, just my personal reaction in a moment of disappointment brother.


----------



## Turdsandwich

Jared Strack said:


> I don’t disagree with u or the previous poster on the quality control at all. I think we can all agree nobody wants a shit guitar put out for the sake of volume. But I disagree with the idea that another run , 2 or three of such popular guitars couldn’t or shouldnt go out in a time frame appropriate to produce them at top quality. There’s just something that feels a little bit elitist about making something so scarce. This was an opinion I had well before the pandemic. He may rectify this in the future, just my personal reaction in a moment of disappointment brother.


Disagree. This is a way better approach. Telling the customer this is what's available during this window and it will only be awesome. The old Abasi brand was laughable. All those guitars were rubbish because they had too many options like 8 string Floyd, fanned, no fanned? Just stupid and not scalable. Unless your Kiesel and own the factory, you can'd do it. I love this new model! It's like a way better version of Solar Guitars. I hope they never make the same guitar so chuckleheads don't have the same one. I think it will be dope if only Pink exists. Just do one off colours, keep the price high and the "Wah I did not get a guitar" going. Keep it going!


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

Meanwhile I just bought a second J Larada. Grabbed an 8 this time to match with my 7.

I may also be the first person to buy a second-hand Larada 8, and most definitely the first in Australia to buy a second hand one. 

There are some guitars out there, but you have to decide if it's worth the cost for them or not. 
Personally, it's the best playing guitar I have ever had, and just sits comfortably. I have barely touched my other guitars since owning my Larada. So for me, it's worth it .


----------



## StevenC

Jared Strack said:


> I don’t disagree with u or the previous poster on the quality control at all. I think we can all agree nobody wants a shit guitar put out for the sake of volume. But I disagree with the idea that another run , 2 or three of such popular guitars couldn’t or shouldnt go out in a time frame appropriate to produce them at top quality. There’s just something that feels a little bit elitist about making something so scarce. This was an opinion I had well before the pandemic. He may rectify this in the future, just my personal reaction in a moment of disappointment brother.


But there are more runs on the way. The last Abasi post in this thread said about 30 USA guitars between the previous customers and some for stock. Between the guitars that went for sale and a couple posted on social media, that accounts for most of those 30. 

We know there are still Space Ts to come. We know there are more Js on the way. We know that Grover builds the USA guitars but also is very busy with Friedman. There will be more, be patient, in future it probably won't be single instances of guitars in stock because the full batch will be for sale.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

They seem to be pretty much on track with their plan. Assuming I understand correctly, Legion = WMI, so the volume for sale on their website will probably be higher in August. Hang in there guys, it’s just a couple months 

US Larada 8: May
US Larada 6: May
J Larada 7: July
Larada Legion 7 & 8: August
Space T: June

I’m curious to get info on the neck of those 6 strings. Hope the lucky amongst you who got one post reviews.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Given the amount of malcontent over the limited availability of the Abasi releases, I think it's worth noting that for many of us, that's entirely the appeal. Not because being rare makes the guitars themselves any better, but because it stands in such stark contrast to most manufacturers. Even companies thought of as mostly high end, quasi-limited release (skervesen/mayones comes to mind as competitive price points) put out a shitload of instruments, and it feels as though Abasi operates as more of a "fashion-house" that puts out seasonal releases. If you weren't able to grab one in any given release, it's frustrating for sure, but at least then you know that when you finally get your hands on one, it will be a unique piece. Do we need, or even want, another ESP,Ibanez, or something similar?

That said, I grabbed the natural finish spartan 6 from the first run, and will post a review when I get it later this week. I can say that the communication I've had with Ivan has been very pleasant and prompt.


----------



## cardinal

It's a bummer they are selling so quickly, but the alternatives are much worse. Just be patient and it'll get better as they continue to make guitars. Just hopefully they are making enough money in each run to sustainably keep going.


----------



## jyym

Curious about the larada 8 string gauge. It says it comes with a 9.5 set... but nyxl doesn’t come in a 9.5 for 8 string. Is it a hybrid of the six string super light plus and two lower strings?


Also anyone know what the nut width is?


----------



## cardinal

jym said:


> Curious about the larada 8 string gauge. It says it comes with a 9.5 set... but nyxl doesn’t come in a 9.5 for 8 string. Is it a hybrid of the six string super light plus and two lower strings?
> 
> 
> Also anyone know what the nut width is?



too many questions. NO SOUP FOR YOU!

No idea, though. Hopefully someone can chime in the the nut width. Abasi would probably have to answer the gauge question.


----------



## Thaeon

StevenC said:


> But there are more runs on the way. The last Abasi post in this thread said about 30 USA guitars between the previous customers and some for stock. Between the guitars that went for sale and a couple posted on social media, that accounts for most of those 30.
> 
> We know there are still Space Ts to come. We know there are more Js on the way. We know that Grover builds the USA guitars but also is very busy with Friedman. There will be more, be patient, in future it probably won't be single instances of guitars in stock because the full batch will be for sale.



Grover also assists sometimes with Dunable from what I understand. We have awesome gutiar renaissance happening right now. Lets be appreciative that so many people want to listen to players and put something out that will suit their needs. From what I'm seeing Abasi is solid quality. Better than I've heard about Strandberg. I've seen some weird shit from the Indo Strandies from people working on them. Like bridge screws that look like they didn't take the time to run pilot holes at a 90 degree angle to the surface. So the screws were at weird angles. Not what I'd be very accepting of on a 2K+ guitar. Hopefully the WMI Abasis will turn out much better. We all know that anything coming from the Japanese shop or Grover will be Quality.

Also, exclusivity is a thing. Some of us like having rare guitars. I like that there aren't many Onis out there. I also like that none of them look like mine. This sort of Custom shop thing may be part of Tosin's model. You can't fault him for that. It ensures demand. Its like playing shows. I'd rather sell out a shoebox and turn people away than have a half empty 2000 seater. People will want in that much more. It creates buzz. And here we are talking about how there's not enough to go around. Its a solid business model.


----------



## I play music

I don't get why everyone is so keen to get the first guitars. I'd much rather wait a couple of runs till all kinks are worked out and maybe a few nice features added...


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

I play music said:


> I don't get why everyone is so keen to get the first guitars. I'd much rather wait a couple of runs till all kinks are worked out and maybe a few nice features added...


I mean, really we are entering the kinks worked out era already. The J Laradas still have a couple of things about them - the gap between the neck and upper bout for instance .
But any released this year are super playable, and super high quality, and won't disappoint.


----------



## jyym

What was the price on the larada 8?

the spartan 6 was 2,999


----------



## Jared Strack

jym said:


> What was the price on the larada 8?
> 
> the spartan 6 was 2,999


The 8’s were 3,299


----------



## jayarpeggios

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> They seem to be pretty much on track with their plan. Assuming I understand correctly, Legion = WMI, so the volume for sale on their website will probably be higher in August. Hang in there guys, it’s just a couple months
> 
> US Larada 8: May
> US Larada 6: May
> J Larada 7: July
> Larada Legion 7 & 8: August
> Space T: June
> 
> I’m curious to get info on the neck of those 6 strings. Hope the lucky amongst you who got one post reviews.



What's the Larada Legion? Is there any info about it yet?


----------



## Jared Strack

jayarpeggios said:


> What's the Larada Legion? Is there any info about it yet?


I’m assuming that’s the WMI stuff as the poster suggests. He showcased them at namm 2020. Bolt on construction with Burl top wenge neck bass wood body; price point around 1800 price range. He said in the video that they will start with a run of 8’s and then prototype a 7 and 6 in that order. Don’t know if corona will impact those plans. All of the American models ended up being way more impressive ( IMO ) looking than the prototypes he showcased save the carbon fiber guitar, so maybe the WMI will be as well? We will see. It would have been badass if he did a run of the carbon fiber guitar. Maybe next year.


----------



## stinkoman

I would been a lot more interested in the WMI model’s if they was using the same neck profile as the higher end ones


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Just played m first few hours on the Larada Spartan 6. First impression:

Build quality: No surprise here, the build is pretty flawless. Fretwork is impeccable, etc, etc. What is worth mentioning is the neck joint, which is pretty damn impressive. It is definitely the smoothest and most unique set neck I have ever owned.

Hardware: I have to admit, I was initially a little skeptical when I saw "Abasi brand locking tuners", as my experience with branded tuners has never been stellar. These, however are pretty excellent. The gear ratio is pretty tight, and turning the little pegs feels a lot like tuning a headless bridge. It's stiff, but also very accurate and sensitive to fine adjustments. Feels less like there are random wide sweeps like you might find in some locking Gotoh or what have you. 

The tremolo bridge is very solid, and I for one far prefer the current trend to throw strat style bridges on "metal" guitars (Charvel being an example that comes to mind). Double locking trems are, quite frankly, my nightmare, and while I never make much use of them, it is nice ti be able to do so without having to deal with the headaches that accompany double locking systems. A very shrewd choice on Abasi's part. I can say that I would not have bought this guitar had it had a Floyd or something similar.

Pickups: Jesus Christ I love these. I've played quite a few moderns, but never the Abasi. These pickups feel like what I expect people imagine when they first read about the Fluence hype. The 2nd and 4th position single coil tones are definitely that, and not just some split coil wannabe. The 2nd position is pure Tele twang with a little glassier high end. Reminiscent of the Twisted Tele pickups from Fender. The 4th is definitely "strat-ier", but that's a positive. As for the humbucker positions, these feel a lot lower in output than the standard moderns? I'm sure someone who knows this brand better than I can answer that, but my anecdotal experience with the same settings on my amp that I had for the moderns required a bit more volume and gain on the knobs to get to a similar level of saturation and breakup. All that said, the 5 way switch and the endless variety of tones from this set could easily sideline my other guitars as a more than suitable stand in for anything that they might be able to do. 5 gold stars.

Random thoughts: This guitar is a hell of a lot smaller than I was expecting. The neck being set so far in makes it sit like a Strandberg on the body, but without some of the goofy things that I think make Strandberg's ironically uncomfortable. Just so well designed. Incredibly balanced in both standard and classical position. Speaking of the neck.... it's definitely not thin, but well shy of "thick". In between, with an interesting shape that feels C "ish". Very, very comfortable for lead lines and cowboy cords alike. 

All this being said, this is still in the honeymoon phase, will post more thorough review when I have had it longer


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Looks great, you’re pretty lucky Because by the sounds of things it’s stellar happy NGD!


----------



## Spicypickles

Looks great, but your post raises a certain point.....I don’t care for this jihad against Floyd’s.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@TheInvisibleHand Thanks a lot of the review. It looks great!! Concerning the neck, would you say it’s thicker or thinner than say, a typical Kiesel 6 string (e.g. a Vader)? How are the jumbo nickel frets? How much did it cost you? 

I’m currently thinking of either buying a Strandberg Metal 6 (and swapping the Fishman Moderns for Abasis) or waiting out for a Larada 6. I know I said I didn’t want a trem, but I really like the Abasi body shape and upper fret access in terms of ergonomics (and I can always lock the trem). Did they talk about releasing other batches? (Sorry for all the questions.)


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @TheInvisibleHand Thanks a lot of the review. It looks great!! Concerning the neck, would you say it’s thicker or thinner than say, a typical Kiesel 6 string (e.g. a Vader)? How are the jumbo nickel frets? How much did it cost you?
> 
> I’m currently thinking of either buying a Strandberg Metal 6 (and swapping the Fishman Moderns for Abasis) or waiting out for a Larada 6. I know I said I didn’t want a trem, but I really like the Abasi body shape and upper fret access in terms of ergonomics (and I can always lock the trem). Did they talk about releasing other batches? (Sorry for all the questions.)



I've never played a vader, but to me it feels like a more substantial prestige neck. That said, the shape of it is really hard for me to pin down, the treble side of the neck is much more squared off, and the bass side tapers a little less aggressively. Maybe the ovoid shape? I haven't played a J larada, so I don't have a basis for comparison. I do really like it though, and it feels very relaxing for me considering I've been battling tendonitis on my elbow for months that I was really hopping an endureneck might help.

Having played a few strandbergs, I would never think about buying one again if a Larada were an option. It is just on a different tier compared to the Bodens. This instrument makes sense to me when I think about what i paid for it (3k on the dot), whereas with the Strandbergs I never really understood how they were justifying the cost. For what it's worth, I am currently selling a few of my guitars in anticipation of another release of some spartan 6s so that I can scoop up a second one. I like it that much. 

The nickle frets are ok, but I certainly agree that at this price point they should be stainless. Its an odd choice. They're set well and they do their job. As for the trem, these gotoh systems feel like the least "trem" tremolo that one could have. If you don't want to use it the stability is good enough to where you wont even notice it. 

I believe their site says August for some more 6s.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I’ve had a good experience with Strandberg, but I had not seen that Abasi Concepts added Larada 6s for August. I’ll definitely wait until then and hope I get my shot at one. Thanks again for all the info man, it’s much appreciated.

Sidenote: I’ve also had hand/arm problems and own 3 Strandbergs. The J Larada 7’s ergonomics are really better for my type of problems, to the point where I’m selling my Strandbergs. Since playing a 7 all the time is not great when you have muscle problems, I’m really hoping I get a Larada 6 in August.


----------



## bassisace

Anybody buying a Japanese Larada or a Space T in July??


----------



## katsumura78

When you guys signed up for the email newsletter did they notify you the second more guitars were in stock? J Larada 7 is calling my name. Especially if they do another purple one. The tele they posted on social media today looks freaking great too.


----------



## jyym

katsumura78 said:


> When you guys signed up for the email newsletter did they notify you the second more guitars were in stock? J Larada 7 is calling my name. Especially if they do another purple one. The tele they posted on social media today looks freaking great too.


I never got a confirmation email when I signed up. I DID get an email notifying about the recent Sunday drop.


----------



## Fizz

I got an email for the last USA drop the day before with about a ~4 hour timeframe on when it'd update with the new stock. I'd make sure to check emails every day.

I'm also dying for one of these J Laradas. Sooo badly, haha


----------



## mirrorshades

I was after an 8, had one in my cart that disappeared after I browsed for another 60 seconds. so I impulse bought the 6 in white as it was the last one.
plays beautifully, still deciding if im going to keep it.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

mirrorshades said:


> I was after an 8, had one in my cart that disappeared after I browsed for another 60 seconds. so I impulse bought the 6 in white as it was the last one.
> plays beautifully, still deciding if im going to keep it.




It was you that nabbed the white one!!  Ill trade you my natural spartan 6 for your white one.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@mirrorshades : I’m looking for a Larada 6, so I’d be an interested buyer.

Plenty of 8s coming in July (J Larada) and August (Legion)


----------



## Fizz

I heard the J larada batch was going to be fairly small, I'm hoping that small won't = impossible to get one in time.

The Japanese ones are the only models still using the asymmetrical neck, right? How impactful is that on the overall ergonomics of it? That's one of the main appeals that's making me set on wanting one of these.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Fizz said:


> The Japanese ones are the only models still using the asymmetrical neck, right?



Yes, to my knowledge.



Fizz said:


> How impactful is that on the overall ergonomics of it?



Hard to tell without doing a comparison of the Larada with C-shaped neck and the J Larada.

My J Larada 7 is the only guitar I play now, based on ergonomics, playability and tone. If you want my perspective, I made a NGD thread you can easily find. 

At the end of the day, it’s a gamble if you can’t try one, but I haven’t heard anyone not liking this neck profile.


----------



## pott

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Just played m first few hours on the Larada Spartan 6. First impression:
> 
> Build quality: No surprise here, the build is pretty flawless. Fretwork is impeccable, etc, etc. What is worth mentioning is the neck joint, which is pretty damn impressive. It is definitely the smoothest and most unique set neck I have ever owned.
> 
> Hardware: I have to admit, I was initially a little skeptical when I saw "Abasi brand locking tuners", as my experience with branded tuners has never been stellar. These, however are pretty excellent. The gear ratio is pretty tight, and turning the little pegs feels a lot like tuning a headless bridge. It's stiff, but also very accurate and sensitive to fine adjustments. Feels less like there are random wide sweeps like you might find in some locking Gotoh or what have you.
> 
> The tremolo bridge is very solid, and I for one far prefer the current trend to throw strat style bridges on "metal" guitars (Charvel being an example that comes to mind). Double locking trems are, quite frankly, my nightmare, and while I never make much use of them, it is nice ti be able to do so without having to deal with the headaches that accompany double locking systems. A very shrewd choice on Abasi's part. I can say that I would not have bought this guitar had it had a Floyd or something similar.
> 
> Pickups: Jesus Christ I love these. I've played quite a few moderns, but never the Abasi. These pickups feel like what I expect people imagine when they first read about the Fluence hype. The 2nd and 4th position single coil tones are definitely that, and not just some split coil wannabe. The 2nd position is pure Tele twang with a little glassier high end. Reminiscent of the Twisted Tele pickups from Fender. The 4th is definitely "strat-ier", but that's a positive. As for the humbucker positions, these feel a lot lower in output than the standard moderns? I'm sure someone who knows this brand better than I can answer that, but my anecdotal experience with the same settings on my amp that I had for the moderns required a bit more volume and gain on the knobs to get to a similar level of saturation and breakup. All that said, the 5 way switch and the endless variety of tones from this set could easily sideline my other guitars as a more than suitable stand in for anything that they might be able to do. 5 gold stars.
> 
> Random thoughts: This guitar is a hell of a lot smaller than I was expecting. The neck being set so far in makes it sit like a Strandberg on the body, but without some of the goofy things that I think make Strandberg's ironically uncomfortable. Just so well designed. Incredibly balanced in both standard and classical position. Speaking of the neck.... it's definitely not thin, but well shy of "thick". In between, with an interesting shape that feels C "ish". Very, very comfortable for lead lines and cowboy cords alike.
> 
> All this being said, this is still in the honeymoon phase, will post more thorough review when I have had it longer



Hold on... This IS a floating 2 point trem. Hence, it sets up in the exact same way as a Floyd Rose. What headache are you talking about? the only extra steps with a Floyd are removing the ball-ends and having to lock at the nut and then use the fine tuners; in my book, hardly the most annoying things about setting-up a floating bridge (though maybe that's exactly what bugged you, which is fair).


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

pott said:


> Hold on... This IS a floating 2 point trem. Hence, it sets up in the exact same way as a Floyd Rose. What headache are you talking about? the only extra steps with a Floyd are removing the ball-ends and having to lock at the nut and then use the fine tuners; in my book, hardly the most annoying things about setting-up a floating bridge (though maybe that's exactly what bugged you, which is fair).




You are correct. That was most of my headache. Although, in full disclosure, the last Floyd I used was likely in 1999.....


----------



## pott

I don't blame you there! I'm totally turned-off full floating trems too. No matter how good I was at tuning them, it just wasn't worth the hassle. 

One exception... my JP15. Some guitars are so good it may be worth the trade-off. It'd take them to be VERY good and based on what you said, that Larada indeed belongs there!


----------



## Hollowway

pott said:


> Hold on... This IS a floating 2 point trem. Hence, it sets up in the exact same way as a Floyd Rose. What headache are you talking about? the only extra steps with a Floyd are removing the ball-ends and having to lock at the nut and then use the fine tuners; in my book, hardly the most annoying things about setting-up a floating bridge (though maybe that's exactly what bugged you, which is fair).



Not to turn this into a Floyd thread, but removing the ball ends doesn't even have to be an extra step. Just put the ball end at the tuning peg, and it actually makes it easier to wind, anyway.


----------



## pott

Yeah I see tons of folks do it too... To me it looks equally as bad as loose strings at the headstock!


----------



## spudmunkey

I just hate that changing a string means taking out tools.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

pott said:


> Yeah I see tons of folks do it too... To me it looks equally as bad as loose strings at the headstock!



You just clip the extra string length off, and the ball attached at the end, like you would any other guitar, regardless of bridge. 

Unless, do you wind the entire string length around the post? 



spudmunkey said:


> I just hate that changing a string means taking out tools.



I install wrench holders on everything, some hardtails too.


----------



## Hollowway

It’s true - having that little Floyd wrench holder on the back of the headstock is the best invention ever. My very first guitar had one, and I think they should be standard on all Floyd equipped guitars.


----------



## pott

MaxOfMetal said:


> You just clip the extra string length off, and the ball attached at the end, like you would any other guitar, regardless of bridge.
> 
> Unless, do you wind the entire string length around the post?
> 
> 
> 
> I install wrench holders on everything, some hardtails too.



No. I always just call the ball end, lock through there, then wind the regular way (3 or 2 winds on the wound strings, 3 to 4 on plains, and if I felt like it using the locking technique). I just never 'got' the using of the ball-ends on the headstock side, since the cutting of them hardly feels like much effort. 

But I think you may have gotten lucky there... I've seen plenty of people who'd wind the ENTIRE STRING UP TO THE BALL END at the headstock. So yes, lock the 'free' end, then just wind, and wind, and wind... WHY.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

pott said:


> No. I always just call the ball end, lock through there, then wind the regular way (3 or 2 winds on the wound strings, 3 to 4 on plains, and if I felt like it using the locking technique). I just never 'got' the using of the ball-ends on the headstock side, since the cutting of them hardly feels like much effort.
> 
> But I think you may have gotten lucky there... I've seen plenty of people who'd wind the ENTIRE STRING UP TO THE BALL END at the headstock. So yes, lock the 'free' end, then just wind, and wind, and wind... WHY.



That was always a pain in the ass.

Dude would come in with a really nice, expensive guitar and have the entire fucking string wrapped around the tuner. 

"That's how BB does it!"

Added an extra five or so minutes, but was just annoying.


----------



## diagrammatiks

pott said:


> No. I always just call the ball end, lock through there, then wind the regular way (3 or 2 winds on the wound strings, 3 to 4 on plains, and if I felt like it using the locking technique). I just never 'got' the using of the ball-ends on the headstock side, since the cutting of them hardly feels like much effort.
> 
> But I think you may have gotten lucky there... I've seen plenty of people who'd wind the ENTIRE STRING UP TO THE BALL END at the headstock. So yes, lock the 'free' end, then just wind, and wind, and wind... WHY.



I feel personally attacked.


----------



## bassisace

What browser did you guys use to purchase from the Abasi Concepts page? Just wanna make sure I’m well prepared for all the July arrivals


----------



## stupidweakbaby

bassisace said:


> What browser did you guys use to purchase from the Abasi Concepts page? Just wanna make sure I’m well prepared for all the July arrivals



Your browser choice will be the least of your concerns, unless you’re using Netscape Navigator or something. You’ll definitely want to have your credit card info/address set up in Shopify before the day comes. I saw that people in various places had their desired guitars in their carts, but ultimately lost them because they were scrambling to enter that information. You’ll also want to make sure you’ve signed up for their mailing list so that you’ll get a heads up on what day/time the guitars will be made available. After you know this, you’ll want to be planted in front of your computer and constantly refreshing during that time interval.

If the July release is anything like the most recent batch, the 8-strings will disappear in just a few seconds. You may have more time for the 6-strings though, if that’s what you’re looking for. I can’t help but to feel that I was exceptionally lucky with my purchase, a lot of people were pretty disappointed and I’ve only seen one other person successfully get one (the guy who got the purple one in these forums). Good luck, you will need it.


----------



## bassisace

@stupidweakbaby : thanks for the tips! I’m not sure there’s a way to login to the abasiconcepts website beforehand, i.e. there’s no login system for their website that I know of. I asked about browsers because some people complained about the page crashing.


----------



## Turdsandwich

Do a Nike bot. I bought 2 that way.


----------



## bassisace

It sucks that people resort to this.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

It’s sad that people use bots to resell at ridiculous prices or to hoard guitars.

Shopify is in the midst of adding antibot apps that use deep learning agents to identify and kick out bots, as well as figure out their proxies and ban the original IP. I hope they use those apps on the Abasi Concepts page.

Sidenote: As far as I know (which isn’t much), bots that actually work are like 500$/year, so unless you’re a reseller who wants to make a buck on Reverb, it adds a significant cost to your guitar? Anyhow, bots suck.


----------



## diagrammatiks

I love that buying guitars is now hypebeasted.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Had to google “hypebeast”.


----------



## budda

I remember when bots were for sniping ebay auctions.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

I think this may be an appropriate time to post this:

Follow-up review of the Larada Spartan 6 after about a few weeks of playing.

I can faithfully say that the honeymoon period is over with my Larada 6. I still very much enjoy playing, but after getting over the initial swoon, there are a few things that would give me pause before spending this much on a guitar like this again. 

1: Nickel frets on a $3000 guitar. What initially seemed like an "odd" choice now seems like a lazy one. SS frets come on the Master series 8, why wouldn't they put them on a guitar at essentially the same price range?

2: Apart from the unique body shape, the playing experience isn't anything remarkably better than I've had on a prestige or an ESP. Now, don't get me wrong, that is still a very good playing experience. It's phenomenally fun to play, I just don't think its an extra $1000-$1500 more fun to play. 

3: Mine came with a bad pot. Easy fix, but still shouldn't be happening on this caliber (*cough* price) guitar.

All in all, I am still happy with my purchase. And this all holds little water for the 8 string models. I can't say for certain that this will ultimately be a keeper, and I think as I come back to reality with it, I am realizing that it was very easy to get swept up in the hype surrounding these instruments. When i first played I thought I had found God, and now...... maybe just a quality guitar that is probably $500-700 too expensive for what it is.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@TheInvisibleHand : Thanks for the follow up info.

I’m looking for a 6. If I can’t get one during the August restock, let me know if you’re selling; I can potentially take it off your hands 

For me, it’s all about the neck, body shape and tone. I’ll have no problem with having it eventually refretted once the nickel frets wear out.


----------



## StevenC

diagrammatiks said:


> I love that buying guitars is now hypebeasted.


My Yeezys were far easier to get than a Larada and way cheaper.


----------



## Turdsandwich

I rarely post here. Anyway I did buy 2 Abasi’s via the Nike bot. I got a Larada 8 and a Spartan 6. I’m comparing it to a Ibanez LA Shop 8 string, Strandberg J8, Ormsby Custom Goliath. To summarize - The Ibanez collects dust - it’s just unplayable. It blows the Strandberg out of the water. I’m not a fan of the neck of the Strandberg J8 and have it listed for sale. The Larada 8 is ok but looks cooler than it plays. Not a fan of the fretboard material but it sets great when you play standing up. It’s super easy to do two handed tapping or chord melody things. Pickups are amazing! But I think I’ll be using it as a backup to the Ormsby Custom Goliath with an alternative tuning. The Ormsby Custom Goliath 8 string at the time I got it with currency conversion was a similar price. The more aggressive fan is way easier to play and it was roughly the same price and has great pickups too. Don’t love the Abasi guitar but don’t dislike it. I think after the “hype” it’s not a $3K+ guitar. Once they are readily available which they will have to be at some point the “hype” will change. This model can’t be that profitable. It’s such a niche small scale thing and the brand is not the builder. Since you get what you get without options, which to me is not worth the price as a guitar, I feel I basically bought the Yeezy of guitars and not the best guitar. I’m willing to bet the World Music models will be the best playing ones because it’s built with the exact same machine as the Jackson builds. Just will depend on QA - who’s going to do that for a few hours per guitar - I hope it’s not Schecher QAing. As for the Spartan it’s ok. I’d love it if it was priced by about half. For my 6 string still love my Telecaster and it was half the price. I’ll be listing it at some point on Reveb.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Something tells me I should sell my Spartan 6 before the hype train screeches to a halt....


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

The J Larada deserves all the hype IMO.


----------



## Fizz

Which two did you end up getting? Do you have any pics of them?


I dont really care about the hype, I've just been waiting so long for a Tosin signature model to finally be available. Plus I'm a fan of the shape and features, especially the Japanese models since they still have the unique neck profile.


----------



## Turdsandwich

Not really. The one I played at was 1 piece Wenge which is a bit unstable. Most builders won’t even consider. It’s as bad as the Strindberg 3 boot setup. Looks cool but dumb. The bolt on kept pulling up so the action is not great. I’d do US or World First (way better boot on design) 


HungryGuitarStudent said:


> The J Larada deserves all the hype IMO.


----------



## Turdsandwich

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Something tells me I should sell my Spartan 6 before the hype train screeches to a halt....


Good point. May list it today now that I think about it.


----------



## Turdsandwich

Fizz said:


> Which two did you end up getting? Do you have any pics of them?
> 
> I’ll get to posting. I’m gonna take picks for reverb at some point to sell the Spartan. The Larada I’ll sell after Grover stops building which will be soon at some point.
> 
> I dont really care about the hype, I've just been waiting so long for a Tosin signature model to finally be available. Plus I'm a fan of the shape and features, especially the Japanese models since they still have the unique neck profile.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Turdsandwich said:


> Good point. May list it today now that I think about it.



Which one did you get ?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

"I bought a 3000 dollar custom guitar from a start up guitar company and it wasn't as good as expected."

I feel like I have seen this before. Just because something has hype and costs a lot doesn't mean it is good. If you want to drop 3k on a unique instruments, go to the EBMM vault and buy one of those hot pink Majesty. There will only be 5 of 6 string and 5 of 7 string

I was turned off of this company whenever they cancelled a lot of those custom builds. No thanks. 

The drop model is a really good idea though. People desire what they can't easily obtain.


----------



## prlgmnr

hypebeast? yeezys? nike bot? this last couple of pages is making me feel about 90 years old


----------



## StevenC

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I was turned off of this company whenever they cancelled a lot of those custom builds. No thanks.


Just for the record, because it's the thing people always say they want companies to do, they didn't cancel any orders. They explained the situation to customers and offered either a refund or a delayed build by Grover.



prlgmnr said:


> hypebeast? yeezys? nike bot? this last couple of pages is making me feel about 90 years old


Spoken like someone wearing Balenciagas


----------



## diagrammatiks

StevenC said:


> Just for the record, because it's the thing people always say they want companies to do, they didn't cancel any orders. They explained the situation to customers and offered either a refund or a delayed build by Grover.
> 
> 
> Spoken like someone wearing Balenciagas



man at least you can just go to the store and buy those.


----------



## jyym

I did not expect sneaker and ERG crossover, but it's welcome.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@prlgmnr 


> hypebeast? yeezys? nike bot? this last couple of pages is making me feel about 90 years old



This thread is going spiral into a bot selling thread, now that I’ve become an expert on the matter since yesterday.

So who’s selling their Spartan 6? Hype beast here is looking for one.


----------



## prlgmnr

Please will you invest my savings for me.


----------



## bassisace

If I undestand correctly the main complaints are that some models have nickel frets and have a price which is 500-700$ too high?

From a superficial point of view I find that the Abasis look way better than their competitors, like Ormsby, so people might buy them en masse just based on looks alone.



Turdsandwich said:


> Not really. The one I played at was 1 piece Wenge which is a bit unstable. Most builders won’t even consider. It’s as bad as the Strindberg 3 boot setup. Looks cool but dumb. The bolt on kept pulling up so the action is not great. I’d do US or World First (way better boot on design)



I think the japanese larada sold on their site has a basswood body, wenge neck with an ebony fingerboard. I don't understand your bad design point at all. Not arguing, just trying to understand.



> I’m willing to bet the World Music models will be the best playing ones because it’s built with the exact same machine as the Jackson builds. Just will depend on QA - who’s going to do that for a few hours per guitar - I hope it’s not Schecher QAing.



Good point, I just don't know how the wmi neck shape and finish will differ from the japanese and usa models.


----------



## stinkoman

bassisace said:


> Good point, I just don't know how the wmi neck shape and finish will differ from the japanese and usa models.


From my understanding it will be a basic C shape neck. Losing the unique neck shape made me kinda lose interest in the WMI version.


----------



## spudmunkey

Mister Banker
Mister please, how much does money mean
Won't you reconsider Mister


prlgmnr said:


> Please will you invest my savings for me.


----------



## Turdsandwich

bassisace said:


> If I undestand correctly the main complaints are that some models have nickel frets and have a price which is 500-700$ too high?
> - stainless steel on the Larada, nickel on the Spartan. Spartan is a rip-off. Parade is a C+
> 
> From a superficial point of view I find that the Abasis look way better than their competitors, like Ormsby, so people might buy them en masse just based on looks alone.
> 
> - if you are serious about playing, it’s an C+ guitar for the money. Solar guitar 8 string play way better than this to my surprise. If you’re ab Abasi fanboy then you are what you are.
> 
> I think the japanese larada sold on their site has a basswood body, wenge neck with an ebony fingerboard. I don't understand your bad design point at all. Not arguing, just trying to understand.
> 
> - talk to a luthier. Wenge is only stable when laminated with other woods. Most builders would never do a 1 piece Wenge neck. If you want unplayable low action, or ridiculous high action, and want to do constant truss rod adjustments. Enjoy.
> 
> Good point, I just don't know how the wmi neck shape and finish will differ from the japanese and usa models.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

I feel like I started this cascade into Larada hating, but I'd really like to reiterate that the Spartan was still a really great guitar. Did I have some little gripes? Of course. But I'd have those same gripes for any guitar at any price level. We as guitar players are consumers first, and we want our purchases to make sense.

Apart from those gripes, I was more than willing, excited even, to spend that amount of money on something that I thought was going to be really special. And for the most part, it was. It was also really cool (and I'm sure pitchforks will come out for me saying this) to be supporting a fledgling guitar company built by a black artist, which we all know is a rarity in the metal scene. Say what you will, but Tosin is forging new ground for both guitar producers and musicians, I'll give him a pass if I don't agree with every single one of his design choices for these guitars.

The shape of the guitars truly is sublime.


----------



## bassisace

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I feel like I started this cascade into Larada hating, but I'd really like to reiterate that the Spartan was still a really great guitar. Did I have some little gripes? Of course. But I'd have those same gripes for any guitar at any price level. We as guitar players are consumers first, and we want our purchases to make sense.
> 
> Apart from those gripes, I was more than willing, excited even, to spend that amount of money on something that I thought was going to be really special. And for the most part, it was. It was also really cool (and I'm sure pitchforks will come out for me saying this) to be supporting a fledgling guitar company built by a black artist, which we all know is a rarity in the metal scene. Say what you will, but Tosin is forging new ground for both guitar producers and musicians, I'll give him a pass if I don't agree with every single one of his design choices for these guitars.
> 
> The shape of the guitars truly is sublime.




I understand where you’re coming from and it makes sense. For all the flaws of the Spartans, I still haven’t seen one sold here or on Reverb. I guess @HungryGuitarStudent would have snatched it  I understand with his hand problems and all that.


----------



## CW7

Turdsandwich said:


> Not really. The one I played at was 1 piece Wenge which is a bit unstable. Most builders won’t even consider. It’s as bad as the Strindberg 3 boot setup. Looks cool but dumb. The bolt on kept pulling up so the action is not great. I’d do US or World First (way better boot on design)



While I didn’t keep my J Larada long enough to vouch for its stability, I can tell you, in me experience, not all Wenge necks are created equal. 
I had a VIK Duality with a Wenge neck and it was one of THE stiffest and most stable necks I’ve owned. (And I go through a LOT of boutique instruments). I’m guessing maybe it comes down down the piece they use and maybe how the grain falls? I know very little about luthier work, but I run stupid low action, so any movements/shifts in even the smallest degrees are immediately apparent to me, and that Duality neck was set and STAYED there. I’m anxious to see how these Wenge neck Laradas hold up over the long haul. (To argue the opposite side, I did have a Vandermeij with a Wenge neck, and it moved all over the place, SO... again, I can only conclude it’s the builder, not the wood choice, that matters in the end. )


----------



## Fizz

These things are terrible. Don't worry, I'll buy one from the next batch so I can show everyone just how bad the really are


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I’m with @Fizz , let me test the next batch of Spartan 6s for you guys. It’ll be a horrible sacrifice I make for the greater good.

@CW7 : To your point, I’ve had my J Larada for 5 months now and I didn’t have any problems with neck stability. The build was impeccable to my eyes and to that of my luthier who has 35 years of experience. Maybe @Turdsandwich saw a lemon or a prototype.

@bassisace : I didn’t snatch anything yet since, like you, I havent found any for sale.


----------



## Turdsandwich

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I feel like I started this cascade into Larada hating, but I'd really like to reiterate that the Spartan was still a really great guitar. Did I have some little gripes? Of course. But I'd have those same gripes for any guitar at any price level. We as guitar players are consumers first, and we want our purchases to make sense.
> 
> Apart from those gripes, I was more than willing, excited even, to spend that amount of money on something that I thought was going to be really special. And for the most part, it was. It was also really cool (and I'm sure pitchforks will come out for me saying this) to be supporting a fledgling guitar company built by a black artist, which we all know is a rarity in the metal scene. Say what you will, but Tosin is forging new ground for both guitar producers and musicians, I'll give him a pass if I don't agree with every single one of his design choices for these guitars.
> 
> The shape of the guitars truly is sublime.


Tosin as a guitar player = best guitarist of the decade. Agree No question 

Tosin as a “builder” = joke. I’m actually embarrassed I have bought into the hype on this guitar. Cool looking just poor playing. Outside of this forum I’ve yet to see just a honest review in Guitar World, Guitar Player or wherever. It was all hype. Like those stupid overhyped horseshit Decibel guitars. The other issue is that the pickup poles barely cross the string. If you pick heavy it does not chug. As I was tracking guitars today it was unchuggy. 

Anyway both US models - Larada 8 and Spartan 6 will be listed on eBay this Sunday. Starting bids $1 each no reserve. Good luck.


----------



## bassisace

Is there truly a pickup pole alignment problem on the guitar you’re selling? Did you contact customer support?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Turdsandwich I asked you for the color, then you sent me a PM to tell me « It’s a dope color. You’ll see on eBay. » Really? I get that you’re dissappointed and bitter, it must suck to shell out so much money and not be happy.

You have an opportunity to help the community (and even Abasi Concepts) by being factual about the flaws in certain builds. I certainly appreciate that type of information about any product, and I’m sure others do as well.

So thanks for the info you’ve given, but I’ll pass on your sale given that there may be problems with your build. All the best on eBay (no sarcasm here).


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

At this point, I seriously doubt @Turdsandwich has one. If he did; it would have to be the purple one. Only two 6s were put out in the last batch. If he used a bot, it would have grabbed one instantly, and the blue one sat for about an hour after it was posted. He refuses to post pictures. screen shot or it didn’t happen.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I didn’t think of that scenario hahaha! Why go through all that trouble? Maybe an attempt to diminish interest so he can buy one?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I didn’t think of that scenario hahaha! Why go through all that trouble? Maybe an attempt to diminish interest so he can buy one?



Trolls will be trolls?


----------



## StevenC

I feel like Auerswald has been building necks and whole guitars out of single pieces of wenge for decades and I can't think of more respected luthiers than Jerry. And I've definitely played some Schecters from the 70s with one piece wenge necks that don't have any issues.


----------



## diagrammatiks

wenge is super dense and stable. I dunno what that dude is smoking.


----------



## BigViolin

Why would you need to know the color as long as it's dope?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

diagrammatiks said:


> wenge is super dense and stable. I dunno what that dude is smoking.



Pretty much what my luthier told me. And it’s not like there aren’t other builders that successfully used wenge necks for years. 

Do Fishman Abasi pickups have poles? I thought they were printed in layers.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Pretty much what my luthier told me. And it’s not like there aren’t other builders that successfully used wenge necks for years.
> 
> Do Fishman Abasi pickups have poles? I thought they were printed in layers.


The layers replace standard wire winds, as far as i know. but the layers do surround pole pieces.

That said, pickups are pretty forgiving with pole alignment. You might lose some output or whatever, but the Fluence's are strong as fuck. You also can't remove the covers if my experience is any indidcation, so unless the pickup were routed 4 inches to the left, you'd have no way of knowing if it was off by that much.

Any lack of "chug" is more than likely amp/user/pedal/volume knob error.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

TheInvisibleHand said:


> The layers replace standard wire winds, as far as i know. but the layers do surround pole pieces.
> 
> That said, pickups are pretty forgiving with pole alignment. You might lose some output or whatever, but the Fluence's are strong as fuck. You also can't remove the covers if my experience is any indidcation, so unless the pickup were routed 4 inches to the left, you'd have no way of knowing if it was off by that much.
> 
> Any lack of "chug" is more than likely amp/user/pedal/volume knob error.



Thanks a lot for the info. They indeed seem to be pretty high output, based on the Abasis and Moderns I own (to the point where I now dislike the moderns, but love the Abasis, which seem to have relatively lower output).

The word « Unchuginess » is probably the only useful thing I’ll take from this whole situation.


----------



## Frostbite

This thread keeps delivering I swear. What's the over under on turdsandwich being Frank Falbo with tears down his face and cheeto dust on his fingers?


----------



## xzacx

Turdsandwich said:


> The other issue is that the pickup poles barely cross the string. If you pick heavy it does not chug. As I was tracking guitars today it was unchuggy.



I'm so confused by this. Aren't all of these pickups covered? Does that mean you took the covers off to see if the poles align? Regardless, have you ever bent a string? Line-of-sight isn't how pickups work. I'm not disputing whether it chugs or not, but that's odd logic for it.


----------



## cip 123

Frostbite said:


> This thread keeps delivering I swear. What's the over under on turdsandwich being Frank Falbo with tears down his face and cheeto dust on his fingers?


I don't think Frank has much against Decibal guitars so I'd count him out, dudes just salty.


----------



## Turdsandwich

Weird replies. Clearly no
Serious guitar players on this. Bunch of poseur fanboys. Now I know I never join these. Last post. Knock yourselves out. Auction set for Sunday 8 pm PST. 7 day auction, no reserve $1, Photos will be posted - Spartan 6, Larada 8. Enjoy fanboys. Now go back to your flat earth discussion or whatever the hell you do here. Do something constructive like setting up a Nike bot or actually playing guitar.


----------



## I play music

cip 123 said:


> I don't think Frank has much against Decibal guitars so I'd count him out, dudes just salty.


I guess someone like Tosin has a whole bunch of persons who don't like him ...not only possibly Falbo.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Turdsandwich said:


> Weird replies. Clearly no
> Serious guitar players on this. Bunch of poseur fanboys. Now I know I never join these. Last post. Knock yourselves out. Auction set for Sunday 8 pm PST. 7 day auction, no reserve $1, Photos will be posted - Spartan 6, Larada 8. Enjoy fanboys. Now go back to your flat earth discussion or whatever the hell you do here. Do something constructive like setting up a Nike bot or actually playing guitar.


Don’t grace this with the reaction he’s looking for everyone


----------



## cip 123

petition to change SSO's motto to "Just buy a used Larada"


----------



## Turdsandwich

Sma


BigViolin said:


> Why would you need to know the color as long as it's dope?


smartest guy right here


----------



## StevenC

Turdsandwich said:


> Now I know I never join these. Last post. Knock yourselves out.





Turdsandwich said:


> Sma
> 
> smartest guy right here


Every time


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Turdsandwich said:


> Weird replies. Clearly no
> Serious guitar players on this. Bunch of poseur fanboys. Now I know I never join these. Last post. Knock yourselves out. Auction set for Sunday 8 pm PST. 7 day auction, no reserve $1, Photos will be posted - Spartan 6, Larada 8. Enjoy fanboys. *Now go back to your flat earth discussion or whatever the hell you do here*. Do something constructive like setting up a Nike bot or actually playing guitar.



10/10. The world is flat, Covid-19 is a government hoax, the illuminati killed Kobe Bryant and Tosin is secretly conspiring to drain the middle class of their discretionary income! 

STAY TUNED FOR THE NEXT. GREAT. REVEAL.


----------



## Turdsandwich

TheInvisibleHand said:


> 10/10. The world is flat, Covid-19 is a government hoax, the illuminati killed Kobe Bryant and Tosin is secretly conspiring to drain the middle class of their discretionary income!
> 
> STAY TUNED FOR THE NEXT. GREAT. REVEAL.


@theinvisblehand - dude seriously who sits their guitar on the chair like that and takes a photo but a flat earther. oi vay. only proving my point.


----------



## bassisace

@Turdsandwich : Might be a good time to follow your mother’s advice and go play outside now.

You’re aware « poseur fanboys » on this forum include Tosin, Per Nilsson, Misha M, Ola Englund and a slew of pro players, right?

Please share your chugging tracks and school us in your ways.


----------



## xzacx

Turdsandwich said:


> Last post.






Turdsandwich said:


> Sma
> 
> smartest guy right here






Turdsandwich said:


> @theinvisblehand - dude seriously who sits their guitar on the chair like that and takes a photo but a flat earther. oi vay. only proving my point.



Which one of these was your last post?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

You guys were doing good...then got trolled hard.


----------



## jaxadam

bassisace said:


> @Turdsandwich : Might be a good time to follow your mother’s advice and go play outside now.
> 
> You’re aware « poseur fanboys » on this forum include Tosin, Per Nilsson, Misha M, Ola Englund, jaxadam, and a slew of pro players, right?
> 
> Please share your chugging tracks and school us in your ways.



FTFY


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

MaxOfMetal said:


> You guys were doing good...then got trolled hard.



I guess I’m too naive or didn’t expect someone to be so petty/have so much spare time to make up a nonsensical story.

Anyhow, it was entertaining and I learned new words I can now use on the streets.


----------



## diagrammatiks

I mean he's not wrong that this is just a politics forum now.


----------



## Hollowway

We don’t have colors on the WMI builds yet, do we? I can’t remember if there were any specifics released with respect to finishes on those.


----------



## bassisace

@Hollowway : The only information on the WMI I got is from the Andertons interview of Tosin by Rabea at last winter Namm. I’d check there or Tosin’s IG for pics.



diagrammatiks said:


> I mean he's not wrong that this is just a politics forum now.



What? People were discussing build specifics before troll boy started spewing nonsense about neck woods, pickup poles and bashing Tosin. Maybe I misunderstood who you were referring to.


----------



## frank falbo

Frostbite said:


> This thread keeps delivering I swear. What's the over under on turdsandwich being Frank Falbo with tears down his face and cheeto dust on his fingers?


Whut?! Leave me out of whatever this is becoming.


----------



## Frostbite

frank falbo said:


> Whut?! Leave me out of whatever this is becoming.


hahahaha I'm just in it for the memes man. Definitely just joking


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Hollowway : I think it’ll be all gloss finishes (no matte). I’m curious if the back of neck will also be gloss, satin or oil. Hope it’s not gloss.


----------



## BigViolin

I'm gonna bid $600.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

BigViolin said:


> I'm gonna bid $600.


Everyone put £10 to it and we can all share?


----------



## cardinal

Put it on the blockchain and tokenize it so we all can own a share. And watch the tokens skyrocket in value. A guitar truly for our times.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

cardinal said:


> Put it on the blockchain and tokenize it so we all can own a share. And watch the tokens skyrocket in value. A guitar truly for our times.


I thought about this and after the Nike bots I decided it was too far, but what the hell its 2020 anything can happen


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

haha! I’d rather not deal with the headache of communicating with this guy, specially if there are shipping problems (or even if he's just trolling).


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Just noticed on the FAQ that now there are release dates for a "US Larada 6" and a "Spartan 6"? Will we be seeing a 6 with finishes etc similar to the Master 8s? I'd be very into that...


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Just noticed on the FAQ that now there are release dates for a "US Larada 6" and a "Spartan 6"? Will we be seeing a 6 with finishes etc similar to the Master 8s? I'd be very into that...


It’s kind of odd that they’re splitting the US 6’s into two categories, unless ones fanned and ones not?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Jack McGoldrick said:


> It’s kind of odd that they’re splitting the US 6’s into two categories, unless ones fanned and ones not?


Exactly, the distinction is an interesting one.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Just noticed on the FAQ that now there are release dates for a "US Larada 6" and a "Spartan 6"? Will we be seeing a 6 with finishes etc similar to the Master 8s? I'd be very into that...



Or will it have a fixed bridge? Let’s hope they have a stock that’s larger than two copies of each model so we can all get one.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

First Larada 6 spotted on reverb. The aqua one. $3400.

@HungryGuitarStudent go!


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

TheInvisibleHand said:


> First Larada 6 spotted on reverb. The aqua one. $3400.
> 
> @HungryGuitarStudent go!



Thanks for the info man, super appreciated!

Unfortunately, blue dip and purple dip are the colors I just can’t go with.

Black, natural wood and white are what I was considering (i.e. everything except the dip models).

It was 3200 USD on the Abasi Concepts website right ?


----------



## jyym

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Thanks for the info man, super appreciated!
> 
> Unfortunately, blue dip and purple dip are the colors I just can’t go with.
> 
> Black, natural wood and white are what I was considering (i.e. everything except the dip models).
> 
> It was 3200 USD on the Abasi Concepts website right ?


It was 2999. Only a 400 profit at best


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jym said:


> It was 2999. Only a 400 profit at best


200 of which will be eaten by fees and shipping


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Guys $200 is still a lot of money


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Not everyone wants to be a dipshit flipper.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Guys $200 is still a lot of money



Totally agree. The price increase is a bit much IMO, I would have expected less (or equal, at most) than the original price given that it’s used and that there’ll be a restock in 2 months.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Also important to note that the only people who are going to pick up a guitar like are people already in the know about what they are. And those people will know the pricing and release dates, so attempting to score any profit off of it from reverb is a pretty futile grab.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Also important to note that the only people who are going to pick up a guitar like are people already in the know about what they are. And those people will know the pricing and release dates, so attempting to score any profit off of it from reverb is a pretty futile grab.



Supply and Demand

Somewhere out there there's someone who wants one and can't get one and probably has the money to shell out plenty above original sale price. 

It's not like these are $300 Strat copies. If you're already shelling out upwards of $3500, what's another grand? If ~25% breaks the bank, you probably shouldn't be looking at these anyway. Plenty of great guitars for cheaper. 

We've seen this happen with just about every hype brand, I don't see this being any different, especially with the targeted customer base (no offense). 

Remember when folks were flipping early Strandberg M2Ms? Even further back, Blackmachines?


----------



## jephjacques

And people are still paying $150,000 and waiting 60 years for their Daemoness builds


----------



## bassisace

MaxOfMetal said:


> If you're already shelling out upwards of $3500, what's another grand? If ~25% breaks the bank, you probably shouldn't be looking at these anyway.



Another grand is a lot of money, even if you can afford a Larada. Someone may have saved 3.5 k$ for a guitar and may not want to put more money on it (regardless if more funds are available or not).



MaxOfMetal said:


> We've seen this happen with just about every hype brand, I don't see this being any different, especially with the targeted customer base (no offense).



What’s a hype brand vs a non hype brand?

In your opinion, what is the targeted customer base? The sample I’ve seen in this thread who own Laradas are one guy with tendinitis who wanted the ergonomics of the J-neck and a handful of guys who were curious about the Abasi guitars. 

Maybe I’m wrong, but I didn’t see any “yeezy hypebeasts” foaming at the mouth in this thread. To be fair, I didn’t read the 200+ pages 

There’s also the fact that 99% of us haven’t played an Abasi guitar, so who knows if they are comparable to, say Strandberg, when it comes to the hype vs quality ratio.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bassisace said:


> Another grand is a lot of money, even if you can afford a Larada. Someone may have saved 3.5 k$ for a guitar and may not want to put more money on it (regardless if more funds are available or not).



Again, you probably shouldn't be sweating 25%, and if so, there are plenty of options that won't break the bank. These are luxury goods, and with that comes with outsized cost vs. utility. 

Especially if you absolutely _need_ to have one right away. 

It's just a guitar. 



> What’s a hype brand



A brand that is based mostly on internet hype and marketing vs. actual hands on experience. 

Folks have been foaming at the mouth over these things before they even actually existed. 



> In your opinion, what is the targeted customer base?



The intersection of folks who know who Tosin Abasi is and who buy guitars based on buzz words like "ergonomic". 



> To be fair, I didn’t read the 200+ pages



I have. It's mostly hype right now. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is a thing. 



> There’s also the fact that 99% of us haven’t played an Abasi guitar, so who knows if they are comparable to, say Strandberg, when it comes to the hype vs quality ratio.



That's not too hard of a bar to surpass.


----------



## bassisace

Fair enough, I can understand most of your point but disagree about your assessment of the value of 1000$ and on your negative (borderline condescending, no offense) view of the target audience.

Some people have legit hand problems that are exacerbated by c/d shaped necks. Ergonomics are a real thing and not simply a buzz word (I work with physiotherapists to treat manual labor workers).

Some people choose to shell out 3.5 k$ on a guitar without being corporation moguls for whom 1k$ is worth nothing. Whether there exists cheaper options you judge are equivalent is irrelevant. The amount of money they choose to spend on a guitar is a question of choice (maybe they don’t give a crap about driving a shitty car but want “expensive” guitars). Aesthetics are also important to some.

Sure, some people are hyped on the Abasi name or what it represents, but that’s true for a lot of brands.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bassisace said:


> Fair enough, I can understand most of your point but disagree about your assessment of the value of 1000$ and on your negative (borderline condescending, no offense) view of the target audience.
> 
> Some people have legit hand problems that are exacerbated by c/d shaped necks. Ergonomics are a real thing and not simply a buzz word (I work with physiotherapists to treat manual labor workers).
> 
> Some people choose to shell out 3.5 k$ on a guitar without being corporation moguls for whom 1k$ is worth nothing. Whether there exists cheaper options you judge are equivalent is irrelevant. The amount of money they choose to spend on a guitar is a question of choice (maybe they don’t give a crap about driving a shitty car but want “expensive” guitars). Aesthetics are also important to some.
> 
> Sure, some people are hyped on the Abasi name or what it represents, but that’s true for a lot of brands.



Go reread the discussion, all I'm saying is when demand is high, regardless of reason (in this case, hype, which again isn't an especially bad thing), when the supply is low, there will be someone out there willing to make up the difference.

Having seen folks pay as much as three times the initial price of various makes, it's not like this is rare. Hence the Strandberg and Blackmachine references, which were guitars with limited availability, tons of hype, and in turn folks willing to pay far more for them than they originally sold for.

I don't have a negative view of the target audience, I'm a fan of Tosin's music (been following him since the Reflux days) heck, I was pretty stoked about these like six years ago when they were announced. But it is what it is. These are signature model guitar of an artist turned into a brand with maybe a couple dozen folks actually playing them prior to release. It's okay to have some self-awareness here.

I'm well acquainted with ergonomics. There is no credible evidence that certain aspects of guitars, like asymmetrical necks, are more ergonomic (as in being more efficient and reducing the risk of injury over time) than anything else. It's not a new concept, there are examples dating back to the 60's, and it's been commercially available on guitars from brands like Fender, Music Man, Peavey, and Warmoth for decades. Don't confuse comfort with ergonomics. I'm sure some folks find these guitars very comfortable, and that's great. I'm all for more options being available.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

About ergonomics, all I can say is that I can play longer without hand pain on the ovoid Larada neck than any other neck I’ve tried (Endureneck, Wizard, C, D, etc.).

My physiotherapist specializes and only treats musicians. I believe she did a PhD in a special school in Paris that focuses on physio for musicians. She developped specific measurements, stretches, warmups and strengthening exercices for the type of hand and arm problems I have.

She measured an improvement in my condition since I’ve been playing the ovoid neck (various movement angle and strength measurements). Is this improvement only attributable to said neck? I have no clue and don’t have any data to do an in depth analysis (or do I care to do one).

The bottom line is, I’ve had these problems for a long time and I feel less hand and arm tension after a session with the Larada neck. That’s enough for me to want to keep playing that guitar and get a six string with a similar neck (my limit is at ~3000$ and I’ve tried a ton of other guitars that didn’t work out).

Is that ergonomics, comfort, psychosomatic effects of hype? Meh... Just my story. Ymmv


----------



## bassisace

MaxOfMetal said:


> There is no credible evidence that certain aspects of guitars, like asymmetrical necks, are more ergonomic (as in being more efficient and reducing the risk of injury over time) than anything else.



I don’t want to sound confrontational, but are you an expert in that field? How can you evaluate if evidence exists or that something is credible or not in regards to guitar ergonomics?

Ergonomic guitars seems to be an active area of research. There also seems to be scientists suggesting some neck/body shapes are more ergonomic than others.

It’s not that surprising IMO, since biomechanics involve muscle, tendon and bone tensions and the existence of a shape which minimizes those tensions isn’t science fiction IMO (that seems intuitively true for any tool used by a human).

See for example the following paper, where the authors suggest an ergonomic electric guitar neck and body shape. This neck is asymmetrical.

I’m not aware of all the literature on the topic nor am I an expert in that field, so I’ll refrain from saying that evidence exists or it doesn’t concerning the ergonomic virtues of asymmetrical necks.
*
Genani, Gaurav and Molenbroek, Johan and Dekker, Marijke, 2013, Design of an ergonomic electric guitar, Tijdschrift voor Ergonomie (38), 43-49.*

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/245359989_Design_of_an_ergonomic_electric_guitar

No problem with the self-awareness, I misinterpreted your comment as negative


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bassisace said:


> I don’t want to sound confrontational, but are you an expert in that field? How can you evaluate if evidence exists or that something is credible or not in regards to guitar ergonomics?
> 
> Ergonomic guitars seems to be an active area of research. There also seems to be scientists suggesting some neck/body shapes are more ergonomic than others.
> 
> It’s not that surprising IMO, since biomechanics involve muscle, tendon and bone tensions and the existence of a shape which minimizes those tensions isn’t science fiction IMO (that seems intuitively true for any tool used by a human).
> 
> See for example the following paper, where the authors suggest an ergonomic electric guitar neck and body shape.
> 
> I’m not aware of all the literature on the topic nor am I an expert in that field, so I’ll refrain from saying that evidence exists or it doesn’t.
> 
> Genani, Gaurav and Molenbroek, Johan and Dekker, Marijke, 2013, Design of an ergonomic electric guitar, Tijdschrift voor Ergonomie (38), 43-49.
> 
> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/245359989_Design_of_an_ergonomic_electric_guitar
> 
> No problem with the self-awareness, I misinterpreted your comment as negative



I would never claim to be an expert, but I do have a couple decades of industrial health and safety experience and a number of industry standard certifications, some of which focus on industrial design and development controls for ergonomics in the workplace. At best, I'd say I'm somewhat adjacent professionally. Definitely not an "expert".

I've also followed the "ergonomic guitar" space for a long time. Back when the big names were Steinberger and Klein, and later Toone. I've tried to somewhat keep up on any real information, from which there is little in the way of real data.

I've read that report, and while I feel it was made in good faith, the sample size is woefully small to really come to any conclusions (25 surveyed, two active participants, fairly relaxed methodology for testing). The few conclusions made mainly point to posture and the inherent physical limitations of the human body when asked to perform tasks it wasn't designed for.

I don't doubt that there are better ways to build guitars for the human body, but I'm skeptical of some, especially those that are untested or based purely on anecdotes.


----------



## bassisace

Did you study hand, arm and spinal biomechanics from a musculo-skeleton standpoint? Again, not confrontational, just curious.

Sure, the sample size and methodology of the paper aren’t bulletproof, it’s just an example. We’d need to have knowledge of that field (biomechanics and musical instruments), do a literature review and contact experts to know.

The paper I linked was probably written by a student trying to finish his PhD. That doesn’t mean that the biomechanical observations he makes about asymmetrical necks are false. 

I’d be curious to see if researchers like those at the University of North Texas (who did the Musician Health Survey) have more information and analysis on the topic.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bassisace said:


> Did you study hand, arm and spinal biomechanics from a musculo-skeleton standpoint? Again, not confrontational, just curious.
> 
> Sure, the sample size and methodology of the paper aren’t bulletproof, it’s just an example. We’d need to have knowledge of that field (biomechanics and musical instruments), do a literature review and contact experts to know.
> 
> The paper I linked was probably written by a student trying to finish his PhD. That doesn’t mean that the biomechanical observations he makes about asymmetrical necks are false.
> 
> I’d be curious to see if researchers like those at the University of North Texas (who did the Musician Health Survey) have more information and analysis on the topic.



I went to a few ACGIH conferences on ergonomics related to hand/wrist injuries, but that was maybe ten years ago. I had to help author a report for part of the industry I work in along with a handful of other representatives, some much more knowledgeable on the medical side. Again, I'm not an expert. 

The bottom line, not every guitar labeled as "ergonomic" is actually ergonomic, and until I see otherwise, I have no reason to believe "spec A" is better than "spec B" outside of a vaccum. That doesn't mean I actively avoid said instruments. I've had a number of guitars and basses often described as "ergonomic". 

As far as asymmetrical necks, if the two most popular electric guitar designs in history and two of some of the most trend setting musicians in the history of the electric guitar couldn't get them to catch on, I doubt that the possibility of them maybe being more ergonomic will have as much of an impact. Does that mean some won't prefer them? Of course not. Is @HungryGuitarStudent lying about his progress? Of course not! I think it's great that these might be helpful to him.


----------



## jephjacques

I'm ordering one with a custom memory foam top and back for maximum comfort. We'll call it the Squishable Larada


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jephjacques said:


> I'm ordering one with a custom memory foam top and back for maximum comfort. We'll call it the Squishable Larada


bodypillow larada.
DO EEET


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> I'm ordering one with a custom memory foam top and back for maximum comfort. We'll call it the Squishable Larada


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

MaxOfMetal said:


> View attachment 82451


Y’all have never seen a pillow djent and it really shows


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

MaxOfMetal said:


> I went to a few ACGIH conferences on ergonomics related to hand/wrist injuries, but that was maybe ten years ago. I had to help author a report for part of the industry I work in along with a handful of other representatives, some much more knowledgeable on the medical side. Again, I'm not an expert.
> 
> The bottom line, not every guitar labeled as "ergonomic" is actually ergonomic, and until I see otherwise, I have no reason to believe "spec A" is better than "spec B" outside of a vaccum. That doesn't mean I actively avoid said instruments. I've had a number of guitars and basses often described as "ergonomic".
> 
> As far as asymmetrical necks, if the two most popular electric guitar designs in history and two of some of the most trend setting musicians in the history of the electric guitar couldn't get them to catch on, I doubt that the possibility of them maybe being more ergonomic will have as much of an impact. Does that mean some won't prefer them? Of course not. Is @HungryGuitarStudent lying about his progress? Of course not! I think it's great that these might be helpful to him.



Hahah! Of course I’m lying!! My physio’s in on it as well. She told me that I should play a 2x4 with 7 strings and save my money, but I’m dumb. See you guys on eBay at 8PM PDT.

Seriously, you make good points and I’m not arguing that. The guitar feels great in my hands and I’m happy with that.


----------



## bassisace

MaxOfMetal said:


> The bottom line, not every guitar labeled as "ergonomic" is actually ergonomic, and until I see otherwise, I have no reason to believe "spec A" is better than "spec B" outside of a vaccum.



Sure, I don’t think any of us blindly trust product labels.

As far as the asymmetric neck goes, it’s been suggested to be ergonomic by people who’ve been doing 20+ years of research in the field.

The lack of data is probably due to not finding funds for a widespread survey (as you said, the ergonomic buzzword might not draw masses).

In any event, this lack of data cannot be used as a means to discount their analysis of musculo skeletal tension from which the asymmetrical neck proposition originated.

Given all that, I choose to trust in their judgement that there may be something there rather than discounting the idea because of lack of a large statistical study.

Thanks for the interesting discussion, that’s about it from me on this topic


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

jephjacques said:


> I'm ordering one with a custom memory foam top and back for maximum comfort. We'll call it the Squishable Larada



Everyboody knows memory foam produces a mushy low end. That said I have found it to be very defined on some guitars. I tend to prefer down-pillow top on my guitars, much brighter attack.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Everyboody knows memory foam produces a mushy low end. That said I have found it to be very defined on some guitars. I tend to prefer down-pillow top on my guitars, much brighter attack.



Medium firm or firm? How’s the air flow? Nothing worse than sweating on foam.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Medium firm or firm? How’s the air flow? Nothing worse than sweating on foam.


I’m playing jazz gigs, mushy low end it okay, I’m staying away from the bassist, and Sweat isn’t a concern. Lightweight too


----------



## RiksRiks

KnightBrolaire said:


> bodypillow larada.
> DO EEET


Larada dakimakura?

...

Larada-senpai! Yamete kudasai! nyaaa (*≧∀≦*)


----------



## spudmunkey

Since "ergonomic" isn't some sort of specific parameters or an official term, it's a low bar to be able to use it.

A task chair can say "ergonomic" if it just has adjustable height arms, but doesn't have a lumbar support, adjustable width or adjustable angle arms, seat depth slider, etc etc.

The basic shape of this guitar has that bevel, which undoubtedly decreases the break angle for your wrist/forearm, and then also that cutout so that the guitar is more easily held in the pretty-much-universally-accepted-to-be-"proper"-form "classical position. Ignoring a non-traditional neck shape, I feel like those two features alone would count towards being able to say "ergonomic" in their marketing.


----------



## Vyn

bassisace said:


> Sure, I don’t think any of us blindly trust product labels.
> 
> As far as the asymmetric neck goes, it’s been suggested to be ergonomic by people who’ve been doing 20+ years of research in the field.
> 
> The lack of data is probably due to not finding funds for a widespread survey (as you said, the ergonomic buzzword might not draw masses).
> 
> In any event, this lack of data cannot be used as a means to discount their analysis of musculo skeletal tension from which the asymmetrical neck proposition originated.
> 
> Given all that, I choose to trust in their judgement that there may be something there rather than discounting the idea because of lack of a large statistical study.
> 
> Thanks for the interesting discussion, that’s about it from me on this topic



A lack of data can be used to dismiss claims - the case put forward is effectively an unproven theory. 

If you want guitar to be 'ergonomic', learn proper technique.


----------



## bassisace

Vyn said:


> A lack of data can be used to dismiss claims - the case put forward is effectively an unproven theory.
> 
> If you want guitar to be 'ergonomic', learn proper technique.



Unproven != false.

How do you think empirical-based science works? You use a previously empirically verified theory, extrapolate it to an unverified domain, devise an experiment to (in)validate said theory, conduct experiment, gather data and analyze.

Said theory is based on biomechanical analysis done by experienced researchers in the field.

I chose to think it may be true since the principles on which this theory is based where themselves verified empirically for other types of tools. At the very least, I choose not dismiss this theory outright.

Thanks for the tip about technique, you seem to know a lot about me.

Any tool can be optimized in terms of ergonomics, or have you proven current guitar builds are optimal in that regard?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Why not let it rest? 

In other news, the Spartan 6 blue drip is still on Reverb.


----------



## Vyn

bassisace said:


> Unproven != false.
> 
> Moreover, said theory is based on biomechanical analysis done by experienced researchers in the field.
> 
> I chose to think it may be true, or at least not dismiss it outright.
> 
> Thanks for the tip about technique, you seem to know a lot about me.
> 
> Any tool can be optimized in terms of ergonomics, or have you proven current guitar builds are optimal in that regard?



Unproven != True either!

My education field is electrical and biomedical engineering, particularly in upper limb prosthetics design focusing on hands so I'd like to think I understand how the body works enough to deisgn a replacement for it. 

I've read the study cited prior to it popping up in this thread and it's hilariously one that's usually quoted as evidence supporting 'ergonimic' designs. The sample size is tiny, the results gaines from that sample size aren't quantifiable, they are basically just anicdotes. It's not proper research. Does it hold some value? Certainly, however unless they work out how to quantify what they are trying to present, and then test a metric shit ton of people, it's shakey at best.

If you feel like 'ergonimic' designs work for you then that's great. You're welcome to put your faith in that preliminary research. However using it as justification to convince others that it's proven is BS. For now, 'ergonomic' is just a marketing buzzword, and guitarists love good marketing.


----------



## bassisace

Vyn said:


> Unproven != True either!
> 
> My education field is electrical and biomedical engineering, particularly in upper limb prosthetics design focusing on hands so I'd like to think I understand how the body works enough to deisgn a replacement for it.
> 
> I've read the study cited prior to it popping up in this thread and it's hilariously one that's usually quoted as evidence supporting 'ergonimic' designs. The sample size is tiny, the results gaines from that sample size aren't quantifiable, they are basically just anicdotes. It's not proper research. Does it hold some value? Certainly, however unless they work out how to quantify what they are trying to present, and then test a metric shit ton of people, it's shakey at best.
> 
> If you feel like 'ergonimic' designs work for you then that's great. You're welcome to put your faith in that preliminary research. However using it as justification to convince others that it's proven is BS. For now, 'ergonomic' is just a marketing buzzword, and guitarists love good marketing.



I didn’t say it was proven, I said it was not disproved. Since you work in engineering, you’re probably aware of the fact that research is incremental. I didn’t claim the paper was the be all end all of ergonomic guitar research, just an indication that there is research activity in that area and that some preliminary theories consider asymmetrical necks as promising.

Please correct @HungryGuitarStudent on his technique cause he seems to like ergonomic guitars.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Love you all guys. I think this is escalating unnecessarily and that this discussion is going in circles.

I’m well aware of the holes in my technique @bassisace 

I own a J Larada and my hand problems have lessened.

Whether there’s a correlation between the two, I frankly don’t care as long as I can keep playing pain free with that guitar.


----------



## cardinal

bassisace said:


> Fair enough, I can understand most of your point but disagree about your assessment of the value of 1000$ and on your negative (borderline condescending, no offense) view of the target audience.
> 
> Some people have legit hand problems that are exacerbated by c/d shaped necks. Ergonomics are a real thing and not simply a buzz word (I work with physiotherapists to treat manual labor workers).
> 
> Some people choose to shell out 3.5 k$ on a guitar without being corporation moguls for whom 1k$ is worth nothing. Whether there exists cheaper options you judge are equivalent is irrelevant. The amount of money they choose to spend on a guitar is a question of choice (maybe they don’t give a crap about driving a shitty car but want “expensive” guitars). Aesthetics are also important to some.
> 
> Sure, some people are hyped on the Abasi name or what it represents, but that’s true for a lot of brands.



sorry for dredging this topic back up, but I think I follow Max and will try to say it in a different way. 

I have a bad habit of wanting hard-to-find gear. So when something I want pops up for sale, if the price is within my budget, I'll often just buy it. Even if that price seems well above prior or comparable sales. It would probably be wiser to wait to see if a cheaper one eventually hits the market, but if it's something I've really been wanting at a price that I can do, more often than not I just pull the trigger even if the cost seems out of line. I assume I'm not the only idiot that does this.


----------



## Vyn

bassisace said:


> I didn’t say it was proven, I said it was not disproved. Since you work in engineering, you’re probably aware of the fact that research is incremental. I didn’t claim the paper was the be all end all of ergonomic guitar research, just an indication that there is research activity in that area and that some preliminary theories consider asymmetrical necks as promising.
> 
> Please correct @HungryGuitarStudent on his technique cause he seems to like ergonomic guitars.



The technique comment was aimed primarily as a general, all-encompassing soundbite for laughs more than anything else, however there's a bit of truth in it. There's an amusing venn diagram between a portion of those who have pain from playing guitar, like ergonomic designs and have poor technique.

For the record, I'm not saying my technique is perfect either (it's pretty atrocious). The difference is I'm not relating my aches and pains to the guitar - I have a horrible habit of hunching over which if I put more of an effort into playing straight-backed there wouldn't be an issue.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Vyn : In my case, I think it’s a combination of having increased my practice time to 5 hours a day while going on an intense daily weightlifting program during the same period.

After 5 months of that (with no rest, improper warmup and stetching), I started having arm and hand pain. It was a terribly stupid thing for me to do, i.e. not giving my arms and hands rest days (and doing both guitar and weightlifting every day). I haven’t had any problems prior to that for my previous 5 years of playing.

That being said, my technique isn’t perfect either. I’m also trying to correct a slight hunching tendency during tapping arpeggio passages.

Most of the guitarists I know with hand problems either played way too often without proper warmup, stretches or rest (e.g. me), had horrible technique or carried over injuries from other activities (e.g. Joshua Voiles).


----------



## Jonathan20022

I hope people take away that you don't have to buy the new trendy guitar because it's all of a sudden the new solution to their problems. People attribute way more factors to improved ergonomics and playing than deserve thinking.

There are countless changes you can make to your existing guitar, how you hold it, and how you approach your existing playing before shelling out thousands for an instrument that only touts ergonomics. Only a single manufacturer of the 3 even makes Tosin's custom neck profile, and that neck profile may not work for you.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Ergonomics is a very flawed concept and is mostly used as a buzzword for selling products.

So many chairs are marketed as ergonomic nowadays with a picture showing the contours match the curve of the thoracic and lumbar regions. That’s well and good but when you look closer it can shift all the tension to the sacrum causing SI joint and Coccyx pain with prolonged used depending on your posture and how tall you are. Or it matches the contours of the male pelvis and lumbar region but the female pelvis is quite different so it results in all kinds of pelvic pain from SI to hip pain for women. There’s no fit all design which is why you’ll see such contrasting reviews of expensive office chairs. For some it’s the most comfortable chair they’ve ever used and can work away for 12 + hours a day but for others it results in days of back pain after a few hours use.

When you get into guitar and then need to design around fingers, wrists, elbows and shoulders you are diving into a whole other world that you just can’t label something as the correct way. Some people love the strandberg endurneck, others find it uncomfortable. ormsby’s larger than usual multiscale fan was marketed as a cure for tendinitis and all sorts of other injuries which was just laughable, many people find it very uncomfortable despite the cure all fix all claims. Some guys cramp up with thick necks, others struggle with thin necks. 

Comfort while playing guitar starts with posture. Sit up straight, don’t have your neck bent over and your abdominals crunched up stretching your lower back. This over long periods can rotate your pelvis and change your posture, reversible but not nice to deal with(Jason Richardson currently has this, he posted about it on his IG). Shoulders relaxed and elbows at comfortable angles. If you experience pain take a look at what you’re doing first rather than your guitar. A simple posture or technique change can fix s lot. 

Make sure you’re in a warm room so you and your guitar is warm. Guitar is just like any sport. You need to warm up and stay warm to avoid injury. The most important thing is to take breaks, stop get up and move around for 5-10 mins and if you’re sitting at a computer for hours on end you have to take up a daily stretching routine.


----------



## Rynphos

How many other high-end brands offer nickel frets nowadays? Seems out of place on the US model and I find it a weird choice.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Rynphos said:


> How many other high-end brands offer nickel frets nowadays?



Most of them. 

Suhr still gets tons of orders for nickel frets and they were one of the early proponents of steel. 

It's really more of a wedge issue down market than up.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Just a thought re: ergonomics. 

We'll all clamor over the next breakthrough (including myself in that) of ergonomic wonder, but we'll do so while holding a cell phone in our hand for 6+ hours a day. Meanwhile, we can't figure out why our wrists and elbows hurt after putting them into an end-range tensed position all the live long day.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Lorcan Ward said:


> Ergonomics is a very flawed concept and is mostly used as a buzzword for selling products.
> 
> So many chairs are marketed as ergonomic nowadays with a picture showing the contours match the curve of the thoracic and lumbar regions. That’s well and good but when you look closer it can shift all the tension to the sacrum causing SI joint and Coccyx pain with prolonged used depending on your posture and how tall you are. Or it matches the contours of the male pelvis and lumbar region but the female pelvis is quite different so it results in all kinds of pelvic pain from SI to hip pain for women. There’s no fit all design which is why you’ll see such contrasting reviews of expensive office chairs. For some it’s the most comfortable chair they’ve ever used and can work away for 12 + hours a day but for others it results in days of back pain after a few hours use.
> 
> When you get into guitar and then need to design around fingers, wrists, elbows and shoulders you are diving into a whole other world that you just can’t label something as the correct way. Some people love the strandberg endurneck, others find it uncomfortable. ormsby’s larger than usual multiscale fan was marketed as a cure for tendinitis and all sorts of other injuries which was just laughable, many people find it very uncomfortable despite the cure all fix all claims. Some guys cramp up with thick necks, others struggle with thin necks.
> 
> Comfort while playing guitar starts with posture. Sit up straight, don’t have your neck bent over and your abdominals crunched up stretching your lower back. This over long periods can rotate your pelvis and change your posture, reversible but not nice to deal with(Jason Richardson currently has this, he posted about it on his IG). Shoulders relaxed and elbows at comfortable angles. If you experience pain take a look at what you’re doing first rather than your guitar. A simple posture or technique change can fix s lot.
> 
> Make sure you’re in a warm room so you and your guitar is warm. Guitar is just like any sport. You need to warm up and stay warm to avoid injury. The most important thing is to take breaks, stop get up and move around for 5-10 mins and if you’re sitting at a computer for hours on end you have to take up a daily stretching routine.



Totally agree. After trying the Endureneck and various other guitars for 5 years and exploiting the degrees of freedom mentioned (posture, guitar position, etc.), I find the J Larada has the most comfortable neck I’ve found thus far. But that’s super personal.

I wouldn’t be surprised if some people hate it. Besides the obvious posture, guitar position, etc. adjustments, there are a lot of variables that are player dependent, like your pick grip, right arm position on the body, etc.. All this makes comfort a player dependent concept. Anyways, I’m stating the obvious.

In other news, where are you at @Turdsandwich ?


----------



## CW7

He sold it on reverb this morning for 5k. Didn’t last a couple hours . (It was gone before I woke up). 



HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Totally agree. After trying the Endureneck and various other guitars for 5 years and exploiting the degrees of freedom mentioned (posture, guitar position, etc.), I find the J Larada has the most comfortable neck I’ve found thus far. But that’s super personal.
> 
> I wouldn’t be surprised if some people hate it. Besides the obvious posture, guitar position, etc. adjustments, there are a lot of variables that are player dependent, like your pick grip, right arm position on the body, etc.. All this makes comfort a player dependent concept. Anyways, I’m stating the obvious.
> 
> In other news, where are you at @Turdsandwich ?


----------



## CW7

And for the curious, it was the black 8 that was purchased with the Bot and resold this morning for 5k.


----------



## diagrammatiks

that's pretty good. do that 100 more times and you'll almost make good money.


----------



## CW7

You know ; the way the listing was done...looks like B.S.. "Local Pickup" on Reverb. With one stock picture. I don't think so. So yeah. Not buying it. (literally, OR figuratively).


----------



## jephjacques

MaxOfMetal said:


> View attachment 82451



where did you find this picture of me


----------



## jyym

jephjacques said:


> where did you find this picture of me


I googled jeph jacques butts lol and it was the first result


----------



## jaxadam

I don't care what kind of frets, how many frets, how thick the neck is, how many pickups, how many strings, etc. I've never had a problem with any guitar I've ever picked up. Except for an acoustic!


----------



## Alberto7

^ I don't play my Ibanez AZ the same way I play my Carvin DC727 or my Ibanez RG.

Find the approaches that make you feel better, then find an instrument that facilitates the approach.

That's how I view it anyways. Then again, I've always just molded to whatever instrument I'm playing. Thankfully my hands and arms are healthy enough to do that.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Alberto7 said:


> ^ I don't play my Ibanez AZ the same way I play my Carvin DC727 or my Ibanez RG.
> 
> Find the approaches that make you feel better, then find an instrument that facilitates the approach.
> 
> That's how I view it anyways. Then again, I've always just molded to whatever instrument I'm playing. Thankfully my hands and arms are healthy enough to do that.



I did that for a while, and regardless of my current injuries, my conclusion was that some neck profiles (thin vs thick) and fret types (small vs jumbo) make certain techniques easier (long stretches and legato lines, namely those involving tapping arpeggios, respectively).

I could probably execute with varying degrees of success and refine those techniques on any guitar (which I did for 5 years), but where I’m at right now I’m trying to optimize everything, and neck thickness and fret type are degrees of freedom that have an impact on my technical progression and enjoyment.

Analogy: I could try bringing my alt picking level to sextuplets at 130bpm with a paper thin pick, but that would probably be a discouraging experience.

Example: Rick Graham probably uses scalloped fretboards because he feels it makes playing legato lines easier. Per Nilsson has often said he prefers thin necks because of the stretches involved in the music he plays.

Im not advocating that for everyone, at the end of the day these are preferences.

That being said, it must be a pain in the ass to play Stephen Taranto licks on a Les Paul.


----------



## jephjacques

checks out


----------



## bassisace

The Blue Dip Spartan 6 is still on Reverb. No buyers?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

color


----------



## jaxadam

bassisace said:


> The Blue Dip Spartan 6 is still on Reverb. No buyers?



If it were a little more ergonomic I’d consider it.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Natural one up too


----------



## bassisace

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Natural one up too



Can’t find it. Maybe Reverb filters it out because it doesn’t ship to where I’m at (Canada).


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

The cycle continues.
Buy expensive guitar
Sell a week or two later (Due to either GAS or consumer regrets)


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> The cycle continues.
> Buy expensive guitar
> Sell a week or two later (Due to either GAS or consumer regrets)


In my case it’s a combo of curiosity and GAS. (I own the natural one for sale). 
I’ve got a bunch of custom orders in the works, and a couple being done ahead of schedule, so it’s time to cut some stuff loose and get ready for the next wave of new toys.


----------



## Ninjoma

Not my best work, but the guitar is cool.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Ninjoma said:


> Not my best work, but the guitar is cool.




I thought that sounded great man. This might be a stupid question, but is that an original piece? I feel like the melody was vaguely reminiscent of something. Either way, fine work.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Nice Bernie sticker


----------



## Fizz

Sounds awesome! Absolutely in love with that finish, I think it's my favorite looking Abasi I've seen so far


----------



## Ninjoma

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I thought that sounded great man. This might be a stupid question, but is that an original piece? I feel like the melody was vaguely reminiscent of something. Either way, fine work.



It's just a riff I wrote to show off the instrument, but it might be a ripoff of an Antoine Dufour song or something.


----------



## Ninjoma

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Nice Bernie sticker


Oh no, you spotted my subliminal messaging.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Ninjoma said:


> Oh no, you spotted my subliminal messaging.


Hahaha for real tho it sounds sick keep it up!


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Ninjoma said:


> It's just a riff I wrote to show off the instrument, but it might be a ripoff of an Antoine Dufour song or something.


 YES! Thats it! I knew it knew it from somewhere!!


----------



## Solodini

bassisace said:


> Sure, I don’t think any of us blindly trust product labels.



https://www.reddit.com/r/forbiddens...t_about_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x


----------



## sojorel

Anyone know what is up with the guitars from this seller, and why they haven't sold?

https://reverb.com/item/18877776-abasi-guitars-larada-7-multi-scale-burl-maple-maple-natural


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

The jump on and off reverb, I think people return them. There were apparently some issues with them (and I suppose people know the controversy over them?)


----------



## StevenC

sojorel said:


> Anyone know what is up with the guitars from this seller, and why they haven't sold?
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/18877776-abasi-guitars-larada-7-multi-scale-burl-maple-maple-natural


Because they're in Japan, really expensive and from the original Falbo run.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

sojorel said:


> Anyone know what is up with the guitars from this seller, and why they haven't sold?
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/18877776-abasi-guitars-larada-7-multi-scale-burl-maple-maple-natural



Long story short, they were a rushed batch originally built by Frank Falbo with some finish issues prior to the falling out between Frank and Tosin. 

It doesn't help that they're in Japan and quite expensive given the documented flaws.


----------



## SpaceDock

America is going down the toilet right now and 4K is a lot to spend on a guitar even if there is great economic stability.


----------



## sojorel

Ah, I see - didn't realise they were the builds from then. They look alright though?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

sojorel said:


> Ah, I see - didn't realise they were the builds from then. They look alright though?



"Good from afar, far from good." 

If you don't mind some finish imperfections, you're welcome to them. The couple folks on here who have bought a "Fal-Basi" have been happy with them, small flaws aside.


----------



## DreamingOcelot

In my opinion, there's no reason to settle for imperfections when spending that much. I think Abasi can earn that price tag with new builds going forward, but I'd just leave that old japanese run (CLARIF: old run, sold in Japan, not japanese-made) alone. A little patience for the next run can go a long way; these new finishes seem to only be getting much cooler.


----------



## jephjacques

I played one of the Falbo 6s when I was in Tokyo and it didn't have any issues aside from some polishing compound left around the neck/body join. It was a really solid guitar. I definitely wouldn't buy one sight unseen from the other side of the planet though.


----------



## cardinal

I've considered one but from all the pics the strings are soooo close to the edge of the fretboard, especially the Floyd ones. That's one of my major pet peeves on a guitar. The current builds have a lot more room there.


----------



## Vyn

The more and more I think about this, I struggle to find a reason to purchase one of these over another builder at the same price point, unless you are chasing Tosin’s tone and aesthetics. And a key ingredient of Tosin’s tone is the pickups which can just be bought and put in whatever build, which really just leaves aesthetics. And that’s a damned premium on aesthetics.

Although I guess the counter argument to that is at least they were made in factories with workers who were actually paid a wage, and people will always pay for aesthetics. 

TL;DR - I’ve had too much tea this morning.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Vyn said:


> The more and more I think about this, I struggle to find a reason to purchase one of these over another builder at the same price point, unless you are chasing Tosin’s tone and aesthetics. And a key ingredient of Tosin’s tone is the pickups which can just be bought and put in whatever build, which really just leaves aesthetics. And that’s a damned premium on aesthetics.
> 
> Although I guess the counter argument to that is at least they were made in factories with workers who were actually paid a wage, and people will always pay for aesthetics.
> 
> TL;DR - I’ve had too much tea this morning.



As someone whos played one, I can say that the body shape does confer a little more utility than just aesthetics. Maybe more to some than others, but still something that feels different. 

I don't know why, but when I think of "comps" ESP USA comes to mind. Made in southern CA, similar niche, two humbucker, well built. Granted, they have a much, much deeper history than abasi concepts, and that does count for something. But even their entry level guitars are right at the 3k mark, and anything more than a fixed bridge, solid color runs well past that. 

I guess what I am trying to say is that at this price point, were all just choosing guitars that look good (to us) with small 1-2% differences between guitars in the same tier. The diminishing returns of guitar value cap out pretty close to the 2k mark.


----------



## Fizz

Quality wise, how do you know when something's hitting that diminishing returns mark? I have a hard time imagining the most expensive factory models (like strandberg standards or originals, or the WMI laradas soon) that are approaching or exceeding the 2k mark would compare to these Japan or USA models, or other high end stuff around the $3k mark


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Fizz said:


> Quality wise, how do you know when something's hitting that diminishing returns mark? I have a hard time imagining the most expensive factory models (like strandberg standards or originals, or the WMI laradas soon) that are approaching or exceeding the 2k mark would compare to these Japan or USA models, or other high end stuff around the $3k mark



I wouldn't put much stock in the production Strandbergs, which are known to be, overall, not of very good quality relative to price. They're one of the very few exceptions as far as price to quality ratio right now.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Fizz said:


> Quality wise, how do you know when something's hitting that diminishing returns mark? I have a hard time imagining the most expensive factory models (like strandberg standards or originals, or the WMI laradas soon) that are approaching or exceeding the 2k mark would compare to these Japan or USA models, or other high end stuff around the $3k mark



In my experience, spending anything above 15 - 1800 (New) is where you'll land on that end of the spectrum. 3k has always seemed like the threshold price where you get something "high end" 6 years ago for me, there will always be justifications over the price people are willing to play. But if you purchase any guitar from a well respected brand in that price range you'll get a fantastic guitar that might not be considered boutique, but is quite fantastic in all other respects.

I've been around long enough to remember that from a production standpoint, only a brand or two offered Stainless Steel frets on a production guitar. And it was that way for awhile, it was also one of my biggest defense for spending large amounts of money on a guitar. You'll see people tout wood quality/rounded fret edges/fit and finish/etc, but if my only option was a modern Prestige or Korean Schecter, I'd be plenty happy and would just pay my luthier buddy $50 and a few beers to hang out while he rounds the fretboard/fret ends for me.

It's a great time to be a guitarist nowadays with such great features now being considered standard, and the amount of selection of guitars being as large as it is. Back in 2009 when I bought my 2nd guitar, the options I was considering were a Schecter Hellraiser, an Ibanez S570DXQM, an LTD H-1001 (Ended up being the guitar). Crazy to think it's only been a decade since then, but the market has shifted significantly.


----------



## Hollowway

Jonathan20022 said:


> In my experience, spending anything above 15 - 1800 (New) is where you'll land on that end of the spectrum. 3k has always seemed like the threshold price where you get something "high end" 6 years ago for me, there will always be justifications over the price people are willing to play. But if you purchase any guitar from a well respected brand in that price range you'll get a fantastic guitar that might not be considered boutique, but is quite fantastic in all other respects.
> 
> I've been around long enough to remember that from a production standpoint, only a brand or two offered Stainless Steel frets on a production guitar. And it was that way for awhile, it was also one of my biggest defense for spending large amounts of money on a guitar. You'll see people tout wood quality/rounded fret edges/fit and finish/etc, but if my only option was a modern Prestige or Korean Schecter, I'd be plenty happy and would just pay my luthier buddy $50 and a few beers to hang out while he rounds the fretboard/fret ends for me.
> 
> It's a great time to be a guitarist nowadays with such great features now being considered standard, and the amount of selection of guitars being as large as it is. Back in 2009 when I bought my 2nd guitar, the options I was considering were a Schecter Hellraiser, an Ibanez S570DXQM, an LTD H-1001 (Ended up being the guitar). Crazy to think it's only been a decade since then, but the market has shifted significantly.



Yeah, it’s insane what these big factories can put out, in terms of production instruments, for very little money. There’s a bunch of middle men involved, and the guitars are STILL inexpensive, and crazy good quality. The average guitar today is so much better than the average guitar decades ago.


----------



## Spicypickles

Hollowway said:


> The average guitar today is so much better than the average guitar decades ago.



With other brands, sure but mid 90’s ESP’s were like the pinnacle for me. Super solid guitars


----------



## StevenC

Spicypickles said:


> With other brands, sure but mid 90’s ESP’s were like the pinnacle for me. Super solid guitars


I'm not that old, but were ESPs "average" guitars in the mid 90s?


----------



## Spicypickles

I just meant production guitars, mid range and so on.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> I'm not that old, but were ESPs "average" guitars in the mid 90s?



They were very good and super consistent, but not quite on the level of modern "ESP" branded instruments, and the prices, both then and now, reflect that.

Back in the 90's though, they were probably the best quality to price around. Great specs, awesome colors, varied spread of body shapes and pickup configurations, Schaller hardware (back when Schaller was pretty much the best game in town), etc.

You have to remember though, back then ESP was pretty much what we view manufacturers like Cortek or World. They were building the bones of everything from Kramer to Schecter.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> They were very good and super consistent, but not quite on the level of modern "ESP" branded instruments, and the prices, both then and now, reflect that.
> 
> Back in the 90's though, they were probably the best quality to price around. Great specs, awesome colors, varied spread of body shapes and pickup configurations, Schaller hardware (back when Schaller was pretty much the best game in town), etc.
> 
> You have to remember though, back then ESP was pretty much what we view manufacturers like Cortek or World. They were building the bones of everything from Kramer to Schecter.


Thanks, the only ESPs I've ever played were a George Lynch Serpent with the asymmetric horns that needed a setup and doubleneck from I'm not sure when that kicked ass.


----------



## Jonathan20022

My roommate actually had an early shredder's kick and bought a bunch of like, impeccable examples of some great guitars. And honestly, out of the lot the Charvel Model 6 and the Kramer Baretta were some of the more impressively built guitars from that era 80's - 90's.


----------



## Avedas

StevenC said:


> Because they're in Japan, really expensive and from the original Falbo run.


I actually had a conversation with a friend the other day pondering how these shops keep guitars like these and so many others on the walls taking up space. Anyone who's been to a Tokyo guitar shop knows most of them are _tiny_ and the real estate on the racks must be worth something. And yet so many niche guitars like this are priced at 5k-10k+ USD and have been sitting there for years. I imagine the Falbo Laradas will be on the racks for a very long time since after the first wave sold a bunch, I've seen the same guitars sitting in the same shops for 2 years now (actually I don't even think the new J Laradas are sold out here like they are everywhere else, which I imagine is due to the insane markup (Ok yeah I just checked and there are at least a dozen still up for sale)). I'm not going to complain as a customer since it's a lot of fun to see and try the variety, but I have to say I don't get the logic.


----------



## narad

Avedas said:


> I actually had a conversation with a friend the other day pondering how these shops keep guitars like these and so many others on the walls taking up space. Anyone who's been to a Tokyo guitar shop knows most of them are _tiny_ and the real estate on the racks must be worth something. And yet so many niche guitars like this are priced at 5k-10k+ USD and have been sitting there for years. I imagine the Falbo Laradas will be on the racks for a very long time since after the first wave sold a bunch, I've seen the same guitars sitting in the same shops for 2 years now (actually I don't even think the new J Laradas are sold out here like they are everywhere else, which I imagine is due to the insane markup (Ok yeah I just checked and there are at least a dozen still up for sale)). I'm not going to complain as a customer since it's a lot of fun to see and try the variety, but I have to say I don't get the logic.



Maybe people go there to check out the rare guitars and wind up buying something else in the process. I mean, hey, Tosin once said these were super amazing, but actually that used prestige over there seems much nicer for 20% of the price!


----------



## Avedas

narad said:


> Maybe people go there to check out the rare guitars and wind up buying something else in the process. I mean, hey, Tosin once said these were super amazing, but actually that used prestige over there seems much nicer for 20% of the price!


The friend I mentioned keeps trying these space age multi-thousand dollar masterpieces before inevitably walking out the door with a new strat instead, so you may be on to something.


----------



## asopala

Avedas said:


> The friend I mentioned keeps trying these space age multi-thousand dollar masterpieces before inevitably walking out the door with a new strat instead, so you may be on to something.



At least in Big Boss over in Ochanomizu (or maybe it was Guitar Planet down the street), they also really seem to push for people to buy guitars. Honestly didn't have the heart to tell the dude I wasn't looking to buy. Though they had some serious rarities, like an Uli Sky Guitar for 14 grand. And it was just hanging on the wall. Didn't have the balls to try it out considering it cost as much as it did, but I kinda wish I did now. You don't see those every day.


----------



## jyym

Who is making the USA Laradas?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

jym said:


> Who is making the USA Laradas?


Grover Jackson


----------



## mungiisi

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Grover Jackson



Really? That's awesome. He (and Mike Shannon and others...) did so many great thinks with Jackson guitars back in the 80s. I hope the Abasi guitars will kick-off well too.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

8 string from the original custom runs up on the Verb.


----------



## AmoryDrive

TheInvisibleHand said:


> 8 string from the original custom runs up on the Verb.


That's my custom spec one! Buddy came through town while on leave with his two customs (he bought my natural on completion when I couldn't due to a life event) Got a group pic too!


----------



## Fizz

That pic is awesome! As a very impatient man I'm getting antsy for the next batch, heh


----------



## AmoryDrive

aaaaaaaaaand it sold!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Shot Ivan a message and he said that wmi six strings will probably be available in 2021. There are no concrete plans on them yet but thinking a similar style to the Spartans.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Shot Ivan a message and he said that wmi six strings will probably be available in 2021. There are no concrete plans on them yet but thinking a similar style to the Spartans.



Thanks a lot for the info. I’m still gunning for a Spartan in their next run (or a used black or white one).


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Thanks a lot for the info. I’m still gunning for a Spartan in their next run (or a used black or white one).


 God if they release something in a pastel, namely seafoam, I'd kill for it.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Hell yeah!! I’m resisting the urge to buy a sage J Larada 7 in July; that would be overkill considering I own a black one. A sage 6 string would make me break my wallet.


----------



## Fizz

From emailing them around a month ago, Sage is definitely one of the colors that'll be in the J Larada drop soon and I've got laser beam eyes locked on it. I love the pastel colors like that


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Get those Nike bot and reverb listings ready.

Nike bot to purchase and Reverb to list it when the hype feeling leaves your body and you regret spending that money and just go buy a used Prestige

Sorry I am being satirical. When are the WMI 8s coming?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

August for seven and eights


----------



## Vyn

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Get those Nike bot and reverb listings ready.
> 
> Nike bot to purchase and Reverb to list it when the hype feeling leaves your body and you regret spending that money and just go buy a used Prestige
> 
> Sorry I am being satirical. When are the WMI 8s coming?



It’s not satire when it’s true


----------



## I play music

If the WMI 6 string comes as multi scale (like the first batch Abasis) or baritone, I may be tempted without being Abasi fanboy. With half assed Floyd and NS frets I surely don't need  I'll see next year. Maybe by then Ibanez surprises us with headless guitars and I'll go for that because I think their headless basses for this year are a full success


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I play music said:


> If the WMI 6 string comes as multi scale (like the first batch Abasis) or baritone, I may be tempted without being Abasi fanboy. With half assed Floyd and NS frets I surely don't need  I'll see next year. Maybe by then Ibanez surprises us with headless guitars and I'll go for that because I think their headless basses for this year are a full success



Do you remember the scale lengths for 6 string multi scales, 25-25.5 ?

WMI 6 in 2021 is probably a safe bet.


----------



## StevenC

Master Series Larada 8s and Space T's today between 10am and 12pm PST.


----------



## jyym

Can’t take off work to buy a guitar. ‍


----------



## Vyn

There's also a J-7 going up according to the mail list.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

God damn the flame on the necks on the ones he posted On insta are unreal


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Ah wait I just saw the jack plate is in that awful place still so you can’t sit with it in a “classical position”


----------



## secretpizza

I won’t be rushing to buy one of these, but I will be paying close attention to all of the awesome 8s that go up for sale as soon as people buy theirs.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Did we ever get pricing on the space-t?


----------



## bassisace

Besides John Mayer, who wants a Space T?? The number of guitars they make available is kinda ridiculous, "a J Larada 7", as in a single one?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

bassisace said:


> Besides John Mayer, who wants a Space T?? The number of guitars they make available is kinda ridiculous, "a J Larada 7", as in a single one?



I mean....I'm into them. Tele twang but on a (in my opinion) better body seems like what the Strandberg Salen tried to be. 

I do agree though that the single release of a J7 is a little excessive.


----------



## jyym

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Ah wait I just saw the jack plate is in that awful place still so you can’t sit with it in a “classical position”


tosin and others seem to be able to do it while plugged in just fine, unless I’m missing something


----------



## jyym

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Did we ever get pricing on the space-t?


i would imagine it’s similar to the spartan 6: 3000. Can’t see it being more than the 8s, which are either 3200 or 3300, can’t remember


----------



## mungiisi

bassisace said:


> Besides John Mayer, who wants a Space T?? The number of guitars they make available is kinda ridiculous, "a J Larada 7", as in a single one?



I could be looking for one if I was in a market for a Tele. I mean, the Larada design is very beautiful. I like also the idea that they took the Tele and modernized it. 

Would like to see John Mayer playing Larada live with his band too.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I’d be interested in the t but for that kinda money I’d want a perfect guitar, between the input jack being there and some of the strange relics they’ve got going I’m not sure


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I’d be interested in the t but for that kinda money I’d want a perfect guitar, between the input jack being there and some of the strange relics they’ve got going I’m not sure



Im not sure I get the complaint against the input jack? Its angled in a way that it really doesn't impact classical position at all. The cable runs well over your thigh. I play mine in the classical position and find it to be completely benign.


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah I had no issues with the cable when I tried one in Tokyo, and I play in classical position too.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Good luck guys !!

Yes, the cable complaint is a non-issue IMO. EDIT: nevermind, I thought you were talking about another model.


----------



## gunshow86de




----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

NIKE BOT ENGAGE


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Enlisted the help of my girlfriend, she's my Nike bot.


----------



## jephjacques

wow humblebrag


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I don't understand how I bragged, but ok lol. If anyone seriously bought a 500+$ bot for this then I hope you're planning on scalping shoes.

I'd be curious to see the website stats for abasiconcepts at this hour.


----------



## gunshow86de

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I don't understand how I bragged, but ok lol.



Telling people on the internet that you know a living, human woman.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I don't understand how I bragged, but ok lol. If anyone seriously bought a 500+$ bot for this then I hope you're planning on scalping shoes.
> 
> I'd be curious to see the website stats for abasiconcepts at this hour.



I don't actually have a Nike bot lol. I am just trolling. Unfortunately my significant other is currently asleep so I cannot enlist her help.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

gunshow86de said:


> Telling people on the internet that you know a living, human woman.



I didn't say she was human


----------



## Fizz

My girlfriend....is a NIKE BOT?!?


----------



## jyym

Tosin if you’re reading this, please implement a lottery/waiting room system like Adidas.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

5 bucks no one here gets one.


----------



## jephjacques

gunshow86de said:


> Telling people on the internet that you know a living, human woman.



yeah I wasn't really hating


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I didn't say she was human


bodypillow waifu confirmed


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Are you guys refreshing the main page or a subpage ?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Surely the cable coming out of there would be a hindrance? People talked about it when 2019 namm footage came out but it seems to have stayed the same. It’s different to the rest of the line


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Surely the cable coming out of there would be a hindrance? People talked about it when 2019 namm footage came out but it seems to have stayed the same. It’s different to the rest of the line



My bad, I thought you were talking about another model. Diagonal reading ftw


----------



## Fizz

A subpage because the music on the main one is sooooo loud lol


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

A better picture


----------



## jephjacques

KnightBrolaire said:


> bodypillow waifu confirmed



next abasi concepts project will be a Tosin dakimakura


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Jack McGoldrick said:


> A better picture



Didnt realize it was different on the Ts. But one could make the argument that a T style guitar should only be played casual? Hard to pull of the Dad rock in classical posish.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Still waiting lol


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Didnt realize it was different on the Ts. But one could make the argument that a T style guitar should only be played casual? Hard to pull of the Dad rock in classical posish.


I sit with my tele in classical position all the time, when you use it in a jazz setting it really helps (my opinon)


----------



## jbaxter

Tinfoil hat theory: they give a two hour release window to get accurate metrics of how many people are visiting and refreshing the page to influence future build batch numbers. Or something to that effect


----------



## jbaxter

Fizz said:


> A subpage because the music on the main one is sooooo loud lol


If you're on Chrome, you can right click the tab and mute the website. That shit gets annoying quick.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Looking for a keyboard with an ergonomic F5 key.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Looking for a keyboard with an ergonomic F5 key.


Have you tried the Keyrada? Very ergonomic, but they only release them in batches of 2-3.


----------



## Fizz

jbaxter said:


> If you're on Chrome, you can right click the tab and mute the website. That shit gets annoying quick.


you're a life saver!


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

EDIT: nvm


----------



## gunshow86de

So much for needing a bot, I literally went and took a nap and nothing added.


----------



## bassisace

Your bot didn't find anything ? Maybe they blocked all our ip adresses because we refresh too often hahah


----------



## gunshow86de

The email did say...



> Be sure to check out abasiconcepts.com tomorrow [*Friday, July 23*] between 10AM - 12 PM PST for a very special batch of new Abasi Concepts guitars.



July 23 falls on a Friday.... in 2021.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

gunshow86de said:


> The email did say...
> 
> 
> 
> July 23 falls on a Friday.... in 2021.



What a cruel twist of fate!


----------



## jephjacques

lol trolled


----------



## bassisace

This limited availability is a double edged sword. If 1% of the people who refresh for 2+ hours get a guitar, then a lot of them might give up on having one or worse, end up being bitter.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Some low-brow shit.


----------



## gunshow86de

Tobin's face when...


----------



## gunshow86de




----------



## jephjacques

BOOM


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Wow, was buying an 8, unavailable before I could click and I was already logged in my google pay.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HOw the fuck? gone in less than 30 seconds?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Yep, bots or very small quantities, possibly both.

Space T must have larger quantities (or less demand).


----------



## AmoryDrive

Uhhhhh where are the Space T's lol


----------



## AmoryDrive

AmoryDrive said:


> Uhhhhh where are the Space T's lol


jk JUST went up. 3300....


----------



## gunshow86de

Did I really miss it in the time it took to post two terrible memes?

Well, I was only interested in a set neck 7 anyway, so I guess I'm not too upset.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

AmoryDrive said:


> Uhhhhh where are the Space T's lol


 main page


----------



## jayarpeggios

No one wants the Space Ts? These look amazing.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Space ts aren’t being bought?


----------



## jephjacques

I got the black ash one with the flamed maple neck B) B) B) B) B) B) B) B) B)


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Good job @jephjacques !



gunshow86de said:


> Did I really miss it in the time it took to post two terrible memes?
> 
> Well, I was only interested in a set neck 7 anyway, so I guess I'm not too upset.



My gf and I were both pre-logged into Google Pay, we both refreshed, clicked "buy", clicked confirm, then "unavailable". Literally 5 seconds.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

bought a black space T, mission accomplished.


----------



## CW7

I've heard from more than 1 person that's it not necessarily bots as much as there is a group that gets advanced notice to exactly what's being listed, and when, so they have first shot.


----------



## AmoryDrive

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> My gf and I were both pre-logged into Google Pay, we both refreshed, was the 8s available, clicked "buy", clicked confirm, then "unavailable". Literally 5 seconds.


I really hope they pump up inventory for the MIK Legion models. If they're really selling out this quickly it would be silly to have less than 10 available....


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@TheInvisibleHand Did you sell your Spartan 6 ?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Did you sell your Spartan 6 ?


 sold, then grabbed the aqua one instead. Was gone for like a week before i genuinely missed playing it.


----------



## CW7

Well, I guess I am glad I grabbed this guy a couple days ago, as it more than scratches the Larada itch. View media item 3139


----------



## bassisace

The Space Ts are not selling quick. I really hope they get more copies of 8s because this is getting ridiculous. Gone in 5 seconds is just dumb.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

CW7 said:


> Well, I guess I am glad I grabbed this guy a couple days ago, as it more than scratches the Larada itch. View media item 3139


Damnnn what is that


----------



## Fizz

I appear to have reached peak dumbass. I saw the J7, it was the exact specs I was hoping for and managed to get it, then realized the price bumped up a fair bit compared to all the other J larada batches.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Space Ts have sold out


----------



## jephjacques

In the time between me clicking add to cart and google autofilling my payment and shipping info, all the 8s sold. So more than 5 seconds, less than 2 minutes


----------



## CW7

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Damnnn what is that


 It’s a guitar Tosin had VIK custom build to his specs. VERY Larada like (without the giant part that goes up the neck). Incredibly well made. Wenge neck is insane.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Nice. GG gents


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

10/10 will not attempt to buy again and am turned off of the brand entirely.


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> 10/10 will not attempt to buy again and am turned off of the brand entirely.


Right there with ya. I happened to be in front of the laptop and refreshed to see them all available. And all gone in seconds. (With the aforementioned price hike of the J). 
Between the Tosin spec Eidolon and the Falbo I have in the works, I’m good. The hype has greatly exceeded what they’re worth (to me. And yes I’ve owned/played a couple so I am speaking from experience).


----------



## jayarpeggios

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> 10/10 will not attempt to buy again and am turned off of the brand entirely.



Lots of people want these, what do you expect... Honestly, it might be for the best to wait anyways. These are getting better and better every batch. I'm sure they will ramp up production as soon as possible.


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> I got the black ash one with the flamed maple neck B) B) B) B) B) B) B) B) B)


Trade for TAM100?


----------



## AmoryDrive

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> 10/10 will not attempt to buy again and am turned off of the brand entirely.


I wouldn't recommend getting into sneakers. You think this is bad try the SNKRS app lol


----------



## bassisace

If only 1-5% of the ppl who refreshed for 2.5 hours made a successful buy, then I think a lot of ppl will be turned off.

There’s a point where selling 1-2 copies of an item to 1000s of people is just dumb.

I’m aware of the sneaker trend. I’m also aware a lot of ppl are turned off by it.


----------



## jephjacques

StevenC said:


> Trade for TAM100?



I'd rather cut off my nuts, I had 3 of those and they were all dogs


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

bassisace said:


> If only 1-5% of the ppl who refreshed for 2.5 hours made a successful buy, then I think a lot of ppl will be turned off.
> 
> There’s a point where selling 1-2 copies of an item to 1000s of people is just dumb.
> 
> I’m aware of the sneaker trend. I’m also aware a lot of ppl are turned off by it.



They’re starting a brand. I’m disappointed, but I understand they can’t take the risk to produce 200000 copies of every model without knowing the market demand, which is what they’re trying to assess now. 

Anyhow, the Legion will probably have higher number of copies. My 2 cents...


----------



## AmoryDrive

bassisace said:


> If only 1-5% of the ppl who refreshed for 2.5 hours made a successful buy, then I think a lot of ppl will be turned off.
> 
> There’s a point where selling 1-2 copies of an item to 1000s of people is just dumb.
> 
> I’m aware of the sneaker trend. I’m also aware a lot of ppl are turned off by it.


Having been following the brand and wanting one since Abasi Concepts went live, I'm just happy they're delivering at all given the bumps and hurdles along the way


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> They’re starting a brand. I’m disappointed, but I understand they can’t take the risk to produce 200000 copies of every model without knowing the market demand, which is what they’re trying to assess now.
> 
> Anyhow, the Legion will probably have higher number of copies. My 2 cents...





HungryGuitarStudent said:


> They’re starting a brand. I’m disappointed, but I understand they can’t take the risk to produce 200000 copies of every model without knowing the market demand, which is what they’re trying to assess now.
> 
> Anyhow, the Legion will probably have higher number of copies. My 2 cents...



Higher in their standards is probably 15


----------



## xzacx

AmoryDrive said:


> I wouldn't recommend getting into sneakers. You think this is bad try the SNKRS app lol



I haven't hit on SNKRS since December.


----------



## AmoryDrive

xzacx said:


> I haven't hit on SNKRS since December.


You've gotten a W on SNKRS before? lol Granted I only ever try for J1s so im on hard mode as is....


----------



## xzacx

AmoryDrive said:


> You've gotten a W on SNKRS before? lol Granted I only ever try for J1s so im on hard mode as is....



I've had like 4 or 5 career Ws, but most of those were just stuff I got to hoop in that didn't even sell out hahah.


----------



## jephjacques

Will be curious to see how many of this batch end up being flipped.


----------



## AmoryDrive

jephjacques said:


> Will be curious to see how many of this batch end up being flipped.


If people are smart and know the Korean ones are just a few weeks out I don't think there'd be much money to be made in flipping. The J's are trending 2400 used, USA Masters series 3000-3200


----------



## Fizz

Think I'm gonna send out an e-mail asking if that price bump was even intentional or a typo or something. Can't say I'm a fan of waiting until after the drop happened to update the pricing FAQ. A bit lame since it's got the exact specs I was hoping for, but with that new price I don't know if it's really worth it...


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> I'd rather cut off my nuts, I had 3 of those and they were all dogs


I know, but mine is the only actual good one.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Fizz said:


> Think I'm gonna send out an e-mail asking if that price bump was even intentional or a typo or something. Can't say I'm a fan of waiting until after the drop happened to update the pricing FAQ. A bit lame since it's got the exact specs I was hoping for, but with that new price I don't know if it's really worth it...


What was it priced at? I missed it


----------



## Fizz

AmoryDrive said:


> What was it priced at? I missed it


$3299. Thought it'd be ~$2800


----------



## AmoryDrive

Fizz said:


> $3299. Thought it'd be ~$2800


Yikes, well think of it this way. Wait a few weeks and you can try to get two of the Korean builds for that much lol


----------



## Fizz

AmoryDrive said:


> Yikes, well think of it this way. Wait a few weeks and you can try to get two of the Korean builds for that much lol



Tbh that's kind of my hope now. If that new price is intentional I'm hoping I can possibly pass on it and let someone else buy it, and just wait for those. I messed up buying it and I think they messed up not communicating that big of a price difference ahead of time when it's fully expected people are going to buy it within seconds.


----------



## CW7

Fizz said:


> Tbh that's kind of my hope now. If that new price is intentional I'm hoping I can possibly pass on it and let someone else buy it, and just wait for those. I messed up buying it and I think they messed up not communicating that big of a price difference ahead of time when it's fully expected people are going to buy it within seconds.



the J hike is very disappointing. I had one from the original run. 2400. My take ; that was a killer 1800.00 guitar. MAYBE 2k. But 3300?! That’s just pushing it , imo. It just looks like intent to capitalize on the hype, like “uh oh, we sold too low! Guys will past more for them!”. Maybe “they” will. But I won’t.


----------



## Turdsandwich

Thanks Nike bots expect a few more on Reverb soon.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I think a lot of people’s thirst will be quenched in August with the Legion 7-8s and the US 8s.

If I don’t get a 6 I might cry hehe.


----------



## bassisace

Turdsandwich said:


> Thanks Nike bots expect a few more on Reverb soon.



And the tale of your imaginary buys and sales continues.


----------



## CW7

bassisace said:


> And the tale of your imaginary buys and sales continues.


I actually bought them all with a Reebok bot, and they’re really cool colors, but I am not going to show you guys . But I did already sell them all for 7k a piece. Just take my word for it.


----------



## CW7

Also, they were all on reverb for only 1 hour, and local pickup only. Everyone on my street bought one. Cheers.


----------



## Turdsandwich

Well, If you want to have a shot Next time - This is how I did it, again, - https://www.aiobot.com/ - beat google checkout guy. Bye


----------



## cip 123

Turdsandwich said:


> Well, If you want to have a shot Next time - This is how I did it, again, - https://www.aiobot.com/ - beat google checkout guy. Bye


Cool so now you can be banned for being a promotion bot yay


----------



## jephjacques

turdsandwich is bernie rico jr


----------



## Turdsandwich

Anyway deleting the account. Gave the one useful piece of information on bots...and guess what - they work. It’s a fact. Good luck to everyone on the next batch.


----------



## jephjacques

NARRATOR: he did not delete the account


----------



## BlackMastodon

Woah woah, just noticed CW7's avatar is a Rick Toone. 

Toone built Tosin a guitar way back when. 

CW7 is Tosin, here to tell us it's possible to get guitars even though the bots get them first. 

And Jeph is a high profile cartoonist and Big Guitar™ aficionado so he got first dibs. 

I also have a weird itch to go and buy some Nikes online.


----------



## CW7

Turdsandwich said:


> Anyway deleting the account. Gave the one useful piece of information on bots...and guess what - they work. It’s a fact. Good luck to everyone on the next batch.


They work when an actual human uses them to buy an actual product. None of which is happening here. Cheers.


----------



## BlackMastodon

I will say that for me this hypes up the cheaper Korean versions. I can't justify spending more than like $1500 on a guitar so the J and USA models aren't for me anyway, but I'd be interested to see what the WMI ones are like since any instruments I've played from them were more than fine (PRS SE-7, Schecter Banshee 8, Schecter KM7).


----------



## Albake21

BlackMastodon said:


> I will say that for me this hypes up the cheaper Korean versions. I can't justify spending more than like $1500 on a guitar so the J and USA models aren't for me anyway, but I'd be interested to see what the WMI ones are like since any instruments I've played from them were more than fine (PRS SE-7, Schecter Banshee 8, Schecter KM7).


I wouldn't be surprised if the WMI ones are at least $1800. Still, they definitely have my interest the most.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Albake21 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the WMI ones are at least $1800. Still, they definitely have my interest the most.


Yeah $1500 is optimistic for a used one but depending on how they were reviewed anything under $2k would sit well with me.


----------



## jephjacques

BlackMastodon said:


> Woah woah, just noticed CW7's avatar is a Rick Toone.
> 
> Toone built Tosin a guitar way back when.
> 
> CW7 is Tosin, here to tell us it's possible to get guitars even though the bots get them first.
> 
> And Jeph is a high profile cartoonist and Big Guitar™ aficionado so he got first dibs.
> 
> I also have a weird itch to go and buy some Nikes online.



dont tell anybody but i'm actually fredrik thordendal


----------



## CW7

jephjacques said:


> dont tell anybody but i'm actually fredrik thordendal


I knew it


----------



## Fizz

Update on the J7: Part of the upped price is that they all have cases included now, rest is from rising production costs and stuff. They're giving an option to cancel it for full refund which I appreciate, so now I'm deciding if I wanna keep it or not. 

Im pretty happy with how that turned out overall.


----------



## I play music

Albake21 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the WMI ones are at least $1800. Still, they definitely have my interest the most.


That's what the web site says:


> Prices will vary based on individual specs. General ranges for US models are $3,200 - $3,500.
> J Larada models are around ~ $3,200 and Larada Legion around ~ $1,800.


I wonder if they will also only be sold via their own website or available from dealers.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Fizz said:


> Update on the J7: Part of the upped price is that they all have cases included now, rest is from rising production costs and stuff. They're giving an option to cancel it for full refund which I appreciate, so now I'm deciding if I wanna keep it or not.
> 
> Im pretty happy with how that turned out overall.



What color did you get?


----------



## Fizz

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> What color did you get?


It's the Sage 7 string with the maple board and white pickups!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Looks like Andertons will be stocking abasis, going by the wording


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I don’t get that at all from the wording, then again English isn’t my 1st language.


----------



## jyym

I think the implication is because they have a fully fleshed out landing page for the Abasi brand, they'll be stocking them.


----------



## xzacx

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I don’t get that at all from the wording, then again English isn’t my 1st language.


Retailers aren’t typically in the business of promoting products they don’t carry.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

xzacx said:


> Retailers aren’t typically in the business of promoting products they don’t carry.



Fair point.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Fizz said:


> It's the Sage 7 string with the maple board and white pickups!


 what did you decide about your "mistake"? keeping it?


----------



## Fizz

TheInvisibleHand said:


> what did you decide about your "mistake"? keeping it?


Going to still go through with buying it I think!


----------



## redkombat

am i the only one disappointed with the abasi specs??


----------



## Vyn

redkombat said:


> am i the only one disappointed with the abasi specs??



Nope. Makes sense though. Most of the price is the name really. $3k+ USD will get you a custom ergo guitar with your desired specs sans crazy inlay work or finishes usually.


----------



## StevenC

redkombat said:


> am i the only one disappointed with the abasi specs??


Why are you disappointed with the specs? This is exactly what I was expecting based on the guitars Tosin has been playing for 5 years now.


----------



## I play music

redkombat said:


> am i the only one disappointed with the abasi specs??





StevenC said:


> Why are you disappointed with the specs? This is exactly what I was expecting based on the guitars Tosin has been playing for 5 years now.


I was also expecting these specs. Fishman, multiscale, locking tuners, pretty much what everyone is doing right now. 
Maybe headless. But maybe this will not happen until demand for Laradas goes down enough so there is a requirement for a new model to keep the moneyz coming.


----------



## jyym

Vyn said:


> Nope. Makes sense though. Most of the price is the name really. $3k+ USD will get you a custom ergo guitar with your desired specs sans crazy inlay work or finishes usually.


from who? Really interested in specific businesses.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

jym said:


> from who? Really interested in specific businesses.



I have a shoggie 6 coming from Skervesen that is coming out at just below 3k USD.


----------



## StevenC

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I have a shoggie 6 coming from Skervesen that is coming out at just below 3k USD.


You're ignoring the three golden rules of guitar buying, though.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

StevenC said:


> You're ignoring the three golden rules of guitar buying, though.



Which are?


----------



## StevenC

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Which are?


How it looks, how it looks, and how it looks.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

In this instance, 2900$ got me a swamp ash body with no fancy top in a basic matte purple. I liike boring finishes.


----------



## jephjacques

Vyn said:


> Nope. Makes sense though. Most of the price is the name really. $3k+ USD will get you a custom ergo guitar with your desired specs sans crazy inlay work or finishes usually.



While I do think you're paying a premium for the name, there's also the construction and supply side to take into account. A set neck instrument with that crazy neck/body joint isn't trivial to pull off, and they're being made by a small (maybe even one-man? I dunno if Grover Jackson has employees) shop. I'm actually surprised they're not neck-through instruments, it seems like that would be a simpler way of building the design, but it is what it is.


----------



## StevenC

TheInvisibleHand said:


> In this instance, 2900$ got me a swamp ash body with no fancy top in a basic matte purple. I liike boring finishes.


Yeah, but you can paint any guitar purple. Doesn't stop it looking like _that_.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> While I do think you're paying a premium for the name, there's also the construction and supply side to take into account. A set neck instrument with that crazy neck/body joint isn't trivial to pull off, and they're being made by a small (maybe even one-man? I dunno if Grover Jackson has employees) shop. I'm actually surprised they're not neck-through instruments, it seems like that would be a simpler way of building the design, but it is what it is.



While guitarists are so anal about neck joints, it's really lutherie 101 type stuff. It's just a set neck.


----------



## jephjacques

I dunno, just seems more complicated than, like, a les paul


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jephjacques said:


> I dunno, just seems more complicated than, like, a les paul


not really. It's not like doing a dovetail neck like Rick Toone did (and even that isn't really hard from a woodworking standpoint)


----------



## jyym

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I have a shoggie 6 coming from Skervesen that is coming out at just below 3k USD.


Thanks. very interested in an shoggie 8 neck thru as an alternative to the larada.

edit: never mind, no option for fishmans.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> I dunno, just seems more complicated than, like, a les paul



Seems.


----------



## CW7

jym said:


> Thanks. very interested in an shoggie 8 neck thru as an alternative to the larada.
> 
> edit: never mind, no option for fishmans.



You can absolutely get Fishamans in a Shoggie 8. I can tell you this ; I've owned a J Larada and a USA Spartan... There is NO comparison for quality of the two. The Skervesens are miles above in terms of QC, fit, and finish. I was SHOCKED the 3k USA spartan came with nickel frets. For PRS I get it. It's a "classic" instrument. For an ABASI? What many consider the epitome of modern guitar? Jus feels like cutting corners to milk every dollar of profit from a sub par instrument that's jacked up double what it should be because of the hype. (Yes, it's my believe that Spartan felt like MAYBE a 1500.00 guitar. 3K? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Skervesen on the other hand... FLAWLESS EXECUTION. I've had two Shoggie 8s and 2 Shoggie 6s. Every one was absolutely bang on. Perfect fretwork, finish, and attention to detail.


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I have a shoggie 6 coming from Skervesen that is coming out at just below 3k USD.


You are going to be pleasantly surprised when your Shoggie is done. I just got my second 6, and holy hell, they are KILLING IT right now. Not many companies , at any price point, I would put up there with Skervesen. Top of the game right now.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

CW7 said:


> You can absolutely get Fishamans in a Shoggie 8. I can tell you this ; I've owned a J Larada and a USA Spartan... There is NO comparison for quality of the two. The Skervesens are miles above in terms of QC, fit, and finish. I was SHOCKED the 3k USA spartan came with nickel frets. For PRS I get it. It's a "classic" instrument. For an ABASI? What many consider the epitome of modern guitar? Jus feels like cutting corners to milk every dollar of profit from a sub par instrument that's jacked up double what it should be because of the hype. (Yes, it's my believe that Spartan felt like MAYBE a 1500.00 guitar. 3K? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Skervesen on the other hand... FLAWLESS EXECUTION. I've had two Shoggie 8s and 2 Shoggie 6s. Every one was absolutely bang on. Perfect fretwork, finish, and attention to detail.



Skeversen has been on my radar for a while, but to be honest, I'm just not convinced I like the look of the Shoggie body shape or the finishes (on the colors tabs of their website, maybe more finish options are available through custom builds). I really prefer the aesthetics of the Laradas. Different strokes...

I forgot you had a Spartan, I would have gladly taken it off your hands if it were black or white hehe.


----------



## jyym

if you're going custom I would assume you can get a solid color for Skerversen, no? I like headless more than I'm concerned about the upper horn, and Skeversen has the Strandberg bottom cutout, which is what im most concerned with.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Yeah, I assume custom colors are an option.

IMO, the proportions of the Shoggie body shape really aren't like those of any Boden. Maybe in custom shop you can ask them to adjust the body shape, but I doubt it.

I assume I'm not the only one turned off by that Shoggie body shape. As @StevenC said, aesthetics are subjective and are important to some (me anyhow).


----------



## jyym

what I meant was the general concept of the bottom cut out near the bridge to facilitate classical position similar to the Boden and Larada. I didn't mean the lower horn.


----------



## diagrammatiks

jym said:


> what I meant was the general concept of the bottom cut out near the bridge to facilitate classical position similar to the Boden and Larada. I didn't mean the lower horn.



I'm going to let you in on a secret.
any guitar can be played in classical position.


----------



## xzacx

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Yeah, I assume custom colors are an option.
> 
> IMO, the proportions of the Shoggie body shape really aren't like those of any Boden. Maybe in custom shop you can ask them to adjust the body shape, but I doubt it.
> 
> I assume I'm not the only one turned off by that Shoggie body shape. As @StevenC said, aesthetics are subjective and are important to some (me anyhow).



You're not the only one. The name also turns me off...petty as it may be, I don't think I could buy something called a "Shoggie." Those, combined with the brand's early reputation for less-than stellar quality, have kept me from ever even considering one.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

jym said:


> what I meant was the general concept of the bottom cut out near the bridge to facilitate classical position similar to the Boden and Larada. I didn't mean the lower horn.


 I have never understood this about the boden shape; the cutout toward the butt end of the guitar is too far back and puts the guitar practically vertical (at least with my body/ limb length etc). While I find the intention noble, it is no more or less suited to classical playing position than a fender strat or something similar.


----------



## spudmunkey

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I have never understood this about the boden shape; the cutout toward the butt end of the guitar is too far back and puts the guitar practically vertical (at least with my body/ limb length etc). While I find the intention noble, it is no more or less suited to classical playing position than a fender strat or something similar.



Do you play with both feet on the floor, or one leg raised/lowered?


----------



## jephjacques

Skervesens *are* really good these days. Once my Larada gets here I'll be able to make a comparison!


----------



## narad

...


----------



## soul_lip_mike

What bot are people using to snag stuff on shopify? Wonder if I can use it for mondo.com posters. They're hard as hell to get.


----------



## jephjacques

narad said:


> ...


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

spudmunkey said:


> Do you play with both feet on the floor, or one leg raised/lowered?


Left foot always raised.


----------



## CW7

xzacx said:


> You're not the only one. The name also turns me off...petty as it may be, I don't think I could buy something called a "Shoggie." Those, combined with the brand's early reputation for less-than stellar quality, have kept me from ever even considering one.


Any of that reputation is a thing of past. After owning 4 Over the last couple yearS, I’ve not had many guitars in my hands that are on the level of Skervesen. (I am a big collector and trader of boutique guitars, so there’s not much I haven’t owned or at least played for some time). Anything after 2017 or so is AMAZING. The older ones are hit or miss. But they’ve refined their process and I would have zero issue doing another build now as they are about as good as it gets for fit and finish.


----------



## xzacx

CW7 said:


> Any of that reputation is a thing of past. After owning 4 Over the last couple yearS, I’ve not had many guitars in my hands that are on the level of Skervesen. (I am a big collector and trader of boutique guitars, so there’s not much I haven’t owned or at least played for some time). Anything after 2017 or so is AMAZING. The older ones are hit or miss. But they’ve refined their process and I would have zero issue doing another build now as they are about as good as it gets for fit and finish.



That's good to hear—if they start making designs I like I'll have to consider one at some point.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

You know, high quality high performance metal guitars are nicely priced but the same thing for jazz? 10k. Makes me sad I can’t go to a gig with a Skervesen.


----------



## CW7

xzacx said:


> That's good to hear—if they start making designs I like I'll have to consider one at some point.


I can appreciate that. I used to DESPISE the Shoggie. Lol but when I finally got to try one, the ergonomics blew me away, along with the superior quality (I was really into Strandberg, it the barely acceptable QC was a big turn off). Now I’m hooked. This is my current go to . 
View media item 3147


----------



## Vyn

jephjacques said:


> While I do think you're paying a premium for the name, there's also the construction and supply side to take into account. A set neck instrument with that crazy neck/body joint isn't trivial to pull off, and they're being made by a small (maybe even one-man? I dunno if Grover Jackson has employees) shop. I'm actually surprised they're not neck-through instruments, it seems like that would be a simpler way of building the design, but it is what it is.



That type of joint for anyone skilled in woodwork is not that difficult. More time consuming and more material wasted, although for a small builder the wastage is negligable, it's only a thing really if you're a major manufacturer and the volume of material that would be wasted is equal to 50 guitars.

The issue I have is that the J-Larada's are made in a factory, bolt-on and still nearly three grand. Not even US-made (not that US-made actually matters anymore given the state of the US guitar world, however it's a marketing schtick that sells guitars nonetheless).


----------



## cip 123

jephjacques said:


> While I do think you're paying a premium for the name, there's also the construction and supply side to take into account. A set neck instrument with that crazy neck/body joint isn't trivial to pull off, and they're being made by a small (maybe even one-man? I dunno if Grover Jackson has employees) shop. I'm actually surprised they're not neck-through instruments, it seems like that would be a simpler way of building the design, but it is what it is.


Neck thru would make it a good bit harder to build, for experienced luthiers maybe not, but in terms of a high production setup it would probably slow things down a bit.

A set neck is a neck and a body, they can be made independently of each other. If there are CNC's involved (which there is) it speeds up the time in which a body and neck can be made and brought close to completion before even coming in to contact (depending on how they organise their workflow). This also allows more leeway, should something go wrong with either the neck or the body.

Neckthu, you're already committed to 1 instrument from the start in essence. The neck blank, and the body wings have to be setup properly, if there's a neck angle it's gonna make things a bit trickier on CNC I imagine. Not to mention it'd be a neck thru with an angled headstock, which confuses me as to how they'd cut it and I own a CNC.

I've done a "similar" neck joint on my Abasi headless build, while not identical, with the right tools you can do their neck joint fairly easily by hand.

Bottom line, 2 pieces are easier than 1. You can have a load of Necks ready and a load of bodies independently.


----------



## jephjacques

I am learning things in this thread now and it rules


----------



## CW7

Blue drip is on the verb (again).


----------



## Fizz

Got my larada and have been messing around with it a little bit! So far I'm loving it.

Build quality seems pretty much perfect to my untrained eyes. It's surprisingly light and thin, which I love. The finish is awesome, and the matte top and gloss bevels look interesting without being overly flashy or anything. I'm really happy with the fretwork too. The setup isn't perfect out of the box (it's perfectly playable, the low frets just got some buzz is all, going to take care of that tomorrow)

The neck feels really nice. It's probably my favorite neck to play on out of the guitars I own. I don't really notice the asymmetrical aspect of it when I'm playing, but in general the neck just feels natural and comfortable.

Sound wise, the pickups are badass. These are my first active pickups and they're also already my favorite. There's so many tones you can get out of these things and they're all great sounding. 

So far, I'm still figuring out an optimal way to balance it in my lap while sitting. I've found it to be ok on my left leg either in a normal or classical position, but for some reason when I have it on my right leg it feels neck heavy, and I have to either hold the neck up or put pressure on the body with my right forearm to keep it upright, which can get uncomfortable. I'm not sure if this is just me, because I don't think I'm seeing other people experience this in the few videos on YouTube I can see

In general it just seems to not want to sit still in my lap in any position, but despite that it's quite comfortable in classical position. The contour for classical is really nice and I want all guitars to have this now. I haven't tried standing yet because the strap buttons are too fat for my strap locks I have at home, lol. 

Overall it's still too early to fully figure out what I think, but my first impressions are that I'm loving it. I'm pretty happy I went through with getting it so far, and hopefully that stays true after the honeymoon phase ends. 

Only got this one pic for now but I'll try to get some more this weekend


----------



## jephjacques

that color with the maple fretboard is fuckin TASTY


----------



## jephjacques

Mine has shipped but between Covid and Canadian customs I'll consider it a victory if it arrives by the end of August


----------



## bassisace

Getting a non-Space T during the last sale is a big victory in itself.


----------



## 77zark77

baby blue is great for a newborn ! congrats @Fizz


----------



## Estilo

MaxOfMetal said:


> While guitarists are so anal about neck joints, it's really lutherie 101 type stuff. It's just a set neck.



This. Custom builders locally are literally charging $10 premium for a set neck compared to bolt on, and another $10 for neck-thru compared to a set neck. Low labour costs and generally lower cost of living do factor into it, but still..


----------



## CW7

Fizz said:


> Got my larada and have been messing around with it a little bit! So far I'm loving it.
> 
> Build quality seems pretty much perfect to my untrained eyes. It's surprisingly light and thin, which I love. The finish is awesome, and the matte top and gloss bevels look interesting without being overly flashy or anything. I'm really happy with the fretwork too. The setup isn't perfect out of the box (it's perfectly playable, the low frets just got some buzz is all, going to take care of that tomorrow)
> 
> The neck feels really nice. It's probably my favorite neck to play on out of the guitars I own. I don't really notice the asymmetrical aspect of it when I'm playing, but in general the neck just feels natural and comfortable.
> 
> Sound wise, the pickups are badass. These are my first active pickups and they're also already my favorite. There's so many tones you can get out of these things and they're all great sounding.
> 
> So far, I'm still figuring out an optimal way to balance it in my lap while sitting. I've found it to be ok on my left leg either in a normal or classical position, but for some reason when I have it on my right leg it feels neck heavy, and I have to either hold the neck up or put pressure on the body with my right forearm to keep it upright, which can get uncomfortable. I'm not sure if this is just me, because I don't think I'm seeing other people experience this in the few videos on YouTube I can see
> 
> In general it just seems to not want to sit still in my lap in any position, but despite that it's quite comfortable in classical position. The contour for classical is really nice and I want all guitars to have this now. I haven't tried standing yet because the strap buttons are too fat for my strap locks I have at home, lol.
> 
> Overall it's still too early to fully figure out what I think, but my first impressions are that I'm loving it. I'm pretty happy I went through with getting it so far, and hopefully that stays true after the honeymoon phase ends.
> 
> Only got this one pic for now but I'll try to get some more this weekend
> View attachment 83320



I had the same experience; quite neck heavy , especially if you try in “standard” playing position on the right leg. 

This design, imo, SCREAMS to be headless (which is why I have Mr. Falbo building new a sick 8 string without the aforementioned neck dive problem ). 

But I will day the the J blew the doors off the USA I had. Better overall quality, fit and finish all around. Congrats , man. That’s a fun color combo.


----------



## I play music

CW7 said:


> But I will day the the J blew the doors off the USA I had. Better overall quality, fit and finish all around. Congrats , man. That’s a fun color combo.


Yeah I feel like people think of Grover as some kind of magician because of his legendary status from back in the day. But from what I keep hearing his builds are like average quality, not bad at all but not exceptionally good either. I mean not only Abasi but also the other stuff he builds like G2J. Have no personal experience to back that up though ..


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

We’re into August now so we just need a wmi vs Japan vs Grover showdown


----------



## AmoryDrive

Jack McGoldrick said:


> We’re into August now so we just need a wmi vs Japan vs Grover showdown


IMO:
1.WMI
2. Japan
3. Grover

Price to Performance is a huge factor in that ranking. In my opinion the Bolt on Wenge necks with the teardrop profile should be standard across the board. The set maple necks on the Grover builds are a different flavor, but for me bolt on wenge is king here. Love my J, but I would've loved to score that dark burl WMI they had at NAMM lol


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Any news on the number of WMI guitars they want to put out in August? I'd expect it not to be 5-6 like the previous J and USA releases.


----------



## AmoryDrive

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Any news on the number of WMI guitars they want to put out in August? I'd expect it not to be 5-6 like the previous J and USA releases.


No word on quantity. I'm sure there will be some word before the end of the month in some capacity. Sounds like the guitars are done and they're waiting on cases


----------



## jephjacques

CW7 said:


> I had the same experience; quite neck heavy , especially if you try in “standard” playing position on the right leg.
> 
> This design, imo, SCREAMS to be headless (which is why I have Mr. Falbo building new a sick 8 string without the aforementioned neck dive problem ).
> 
> But I will day the the J blew the doors off the USA I had. Better overall quality, fit and finish all around. Congrats , man. That’s a fun color combo.



It makes sense, most of the material on the guitar is forward of the leg rest. Good thing I only play in classical or with a strap! Mine is supposedly coming Thursday, but that's assuming Canadian customs doesn't randomly decide to leave it in a warehouse for 24-48 hours


----------



## jyym

Minor (really minor) point but what type of strap button is used on the USA larada? Does anyone know the manufacturer?


----------



## StevenC

Last I know the minimum order from WMI was 12 units, but that could be different now and that was for a much bigger brand. So I would expect at least a dozen Laradas in each colour/configuration they release.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

StevenC said:


> Last I know the minimum order from WMI was 12 units, but that could be different now and that was for a much bigger brand. So I would expect at least a dozen Laradas in each colour/configuration they release.



Yeah, Abasi might have ordered that many, but they'll likely release them in batches of 2-3 every 6 weeks at a time that will only be made avaiable to those who complete a massive cross country scavenger hunt for a series of clues leading to the EXACT time that the guitars will be released.

And then they'll release them anywhere from 15-120 minutes after that time.


----------



## mungiisi

Any idea what the price range of the WMI models will be? Very tempted to get an Abasi, but both the Japan and USA models are to pricey for me despite the specs being very perfect.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

$1800


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Fizz said:


> View attachment 83320



This is a beautiful guitar. God I'd love to own that.


----------



## Fizz

CW7 said:


> I had the same experience; quite neck heavy , especially if you try in “standard” playing position on the right leg.
> 
> This design, imo, SCREAMS to be headless (which is why I have Mr. Falbo building new a sick 8 string without the aforementioned neck dive problem ).
> 
> But I will day the the J blew the doors off the USA I had. Better overall quality, fit and finish all around. Congrats , man. That’s a fun color combo.



A headless would be awesome for sure! (Although I do like the looks of these headstocks still) In the meantime I found a couple positions that are working out pretty well and I just switch between them until I get around to getting a new strap that'll fit this thing.

I haven't seen any of the USA models in person, but the build quality on this J model is just so good. I'm not super experienced with this stuff, but I don't personally see any flaws anywhere; it looks and plays beautifully. I'm in love with this thing, really happy with it still


----------



## BRfromjp

Hi, I'm new to this forum but since that I have bought Larada in Japan, I'd like to share how I felt after my honeymoon has passed.

So back in the days, I was searching for new 7 string that most of the people wouldn't have.
I had Boden USA 7 back in the days and was a great guitar as well but by trying out for few months, I realized that the Endur neck doesn't fit with me.
So she had parted with me after 1 year and started to search for new 7s.

I have tried Mayones Regius, S7G, ESP, other Strandbergs, Sugi, private luthier models, Ibanez and many other brands that I could try at the shop here.
They were wonderful guitars and I'm sure that some people would say that I should go for brands that I have stated but for this time, I wanted to have something special but must be the guitar that I can try at the store.
While I was searching, I have remembered of trying out the Falbos before but didn't give me that excitement on the time but since its unique and new brands, I chose to go and try it again.
So I went to Guitar Planet in Ochanomizu first to try out the Falbo 7s. They were alright especially the one with fanned frets and fixed bridge with Burl Top but the neck was little bit thick for me to play. After I left there, I went to see the Js at Miyaji Music store and when I first hold the Js, my first impression was how it was so light to compare with Falbos and how the asymmetrical neck feels great in my hands. After I have played their red, blue and natural Js, I've pulled the trigger for the natural one that sounded the best to my impression.
Some people wouldn't like the color and the being that the quilted top is just a veneer, I totally agree that its overpriced but guitars are pretty expensive here if it is foreign brands even thou it made in here.
But I'm not regretting buying this beauty and still loves to play around.

There are two other factors that impressed me of buying this guitar.
One was that how it was light weighted but wasn't neck heavy at all and other was how clear it sounded.

Since I have played the Boden, most of my other 6s felt little awkward (Mayones Regius, JPM100 and Jackson CS RR24) but they all have their uniqueness that I can't compare with other guitars. So the body balance of Larada fitted well with me and since it felt almost like Boden when you place it on your lap or classical form, this have helped me a lot.
So for the other reasons, man the Fishman sounds so nice and crispy that some of my gear buddies stated that the Abasi models sounds almost like Piano like clean tones.
I didn't believe it until I actually play it but comparing with other active pickups, my impression was that it was much clear and tight. This character still sits there in high gain settings as well, so it was enjoying to play through shop's Mesa MK V amp.
By comparing with the Falbos and Js, I thought that Falbos have more mids and thickness in the tone maybe because of the set neck construction but I was after for clean sounded 7s, I chose the Js.

Anyways here are the photo of the guitar but please forgive me that I'm not a good photographer and is sitting on a grandma looking sofa as well.
I wish the solid colors and other models will also be available to line up in the shop or shops in overseas but until that time, I will never going to buy other 7s since it was pretty expensive for me and was lucky to own one.

Thank you to Tosin Abasi and Abasi Concept teams for making great guitar!!


----------



## jephjacques

That one looks killer! Glad you’re happy with it


----------



## BRfromjp

jephjacques said:


> That one looks killer! Glad you’re happy with it



Thanks!
There are some gap between the body and neck like other Js but my impression is that it doesn't affect the feel of the guitar much.
But there was some differences in tone between the others so hope they start to line up in stores in near future and be actually available to try them out at the stores.
The Maple fretboard ones used abalone on their inlays and looks great but preferred Ebony due to that most of my guitar I've had was Ebony. 

There are pros and cons with its quality, price, sound, feel and etc. but hope they earn success through out the world soon.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Fizz said:


> Got my larada and have been messing around with it a little bit! So far I'm loving it.
> 
> Build quality seems pretty much perfect to my untrained eyes. It's surprisingly light and thin, which I love. The finish is awesome, and the matte top and gloss bevels look interesting without being overly flashy or anything. I'm really happy with the fretwork too. The setup isn't perfect out of the box (it's perfectly playable, the low frets just got some buzz is all, going to take care of that tomorrow)
> 
> The neck feels really nice. It's probably my favorite neck to play on out of the guitars I own. I don't really notice the asymmetrical aspect of it when I'm playing, but in general the neck just feels natural and comfortable.
> 
> Sound wise, the pickups are badass. These are my first active pickups and they're also already my favorite. There's so many tones you can get out of these things and they're all great sounding.
> 
> So far, I'm still figuring out an optimal way to balance it in my lap while sitting. I've found it to be ok on my left leg either in a normal or classical position, but for some reason when I have it on my right leg it feels neck heavy, and I have to either hold the neck up or put pressure on the body with my right forearm to keep it upright, which can get uncomfortable. I'm not sure if this is just me, because I don't think I'm seeing other people experience this in the few videos on YouTube I can see
> 
> In general it just seems to not want to sit still in my lap in any position, but despite that it's quite comfortable in classical position. The contour for classical is really nice and I want all guitars to have this now. I haven't tried standing yet because the strap buttons are too fat for my strap locks I have at home, lol.
> 
> Overall it's still too early to fully figure out what I think, but my first impressions are that I'm loving it. I'm pretty happy I went through with getting it so far, and hopefully that stays true after the honeymoon phase ends.
> 
> Only got this one pic for now but I'll try to get some more this weekend
> View attachment 83320



I may have missed this but what was the price on this?


----------



## jephjacques

My USA 8 is here. Easiest playing 8 I've ever owned but I'm getting a LOT of fret buzz on the bass strings no matter how I tweak things. I think I've identified the issue, going to reach out to Abasi and see what they say before I go into detail here.


----------



## jyym

Nice. A few questions for you. Five way switch I presume, correct? is the knob a push pull? Is the end piece on the blade of the switch metal or plastic? What about the strap button hardware? I’d appreciate some gory detail level close ups of the hardware, since I’m trying to spec something similar so I don’t have to play the larada lottery.

edit: also some close ups of the back panels please!


----------



## stupidweakbaby

jephjacques said:


> My USA 8 is here. Easiest playing 8 I've ever owned but I'm getting a LOT of fret buzz on the bass strings no matter how I tweak things. I think I've identified the issue, going to reach out to Abasi and see what they say before I go into detail here.



I initially had fret buzz with my USA 8 as well, but it went away completely when I took it to a professional to get it set up. I had the lowest E changed to 85W. I think it came with a 74 (!!!), which was way too floppy for me, anyway. Action is still super low and I can't notice a difference between how it was in the beginning and how it is now.


----------



## Fizz

soul_lip_mike said:


> I may have missed this but what was the price on this?



It was $3299. They recently raised the price but I'm still quite happy with it!



jephjacques said:


> My USA 8 is here. Easiest playing 8 I've ever owned but I'm getting a LOT of fret buzz on the bass strings no matter how I tweak things. I think I've identified the issue, going to reach out to Abasi and see what they say before I go into detail here.



Curious to see what the issue was. When I first got my J7 I thought it was buzzing too much, but when I took it to get the setup checked, the guy I brought it to thought it seemed fine. The action on each string seemed to be in a good spot too. It seems like the buzzing also got a bit quieter on its own since then too. Still there but it's not getting picked up by the amp anymore so yay


----------



## jephjacques

Okay, first impression time:

this thing plays itself. No, really, it’s ridiculous, I can’t emphasize enough how fuckin FAST it is. Comfy seated, although it is a little neck heavy if you play with it on your right leg (I don’t.)

stuff I’m not 100% sold on:

very buzzy. I was told by Ivan at Abasi that this is a feature not a bug, it’s just how Tosin sets up his guitars. You need to use a super light touch, particularly on the bass strings. No hammering on the strings a la John Browne.

i'm not sold on the pickups. They’re fantastic for clean and dirty, and just ridiculously responsive. Almost like a Chapman stick or Warr, super touch sensitive. Makes sense, given all the wacky touch techniques tosin uses. But the high gain tones are kind of weird, and the output is just nuts- the bridge makes the EMG 81x in my 080 seem low output in comparison. Very mid forward, kind of honky sounding using my standard 8 string patches in the axefx. Will need some more time to dial them in.

Some of the finish masking is uneven. Not horrendous, just a little sloppier than I’d expect on a $3000+ guitar.

there are some high frets, maybe even a slight hump in the neck around the 15th fret on the bass side. Might be due to going across the continent on UPS trucks. Will probably have to get the frets leveled at some point. Again not a dealbreaker but not as good as I expect from such an expensive guitar.

All in all it’s a really fun guitar to play, but I’m not sure I like it more than my aristides. Time will tell I guess!


----------



## Albake21

jephjacques said:


> very buzzy. I was told by Ivan at Abasi that this is a feature not a bug, it’s just how Tosin sets up his guitars. You need to use a super light touch, particularly on the bass strings. No hammering on the strings a la John Browne.


That sounds a bit.... weird. Almost like BS just to get away with fret buzz. I'm sure it's not, it's just a weird thing to say as a "high end" builder.


----------



## jephjacques

Albake21 said:


> That sounds a bit.... weird. Almost like BS just to get away with fret buzz. I'm sure it's not, it's just a weird thing to say as a "high end" builder.



I agree


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Everyone is always shocked by how loose, relatively, pro players have thier strings. I mean folks literally accused Tosin of lying about the gauges and tunings he used.


----------



## jephjacques

It’s wild how much of his “sound” is in the guitar! Now if only I could play like him


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Albake21 said:


> That sounds a bit.... weird. Almost like BS just to get away with fret buzz. I'm sure it's not, it's just a weird thing to say as a "high end" builder.


yeah sounds like bullshit to me. Almost as bullshit as strandberg claiming they were doing final setups and QC on korean bodens (when they were definitely not doing setups).


----------



## Vyn

MaxOfMetal said:


> Everyone is always shocked by how loose, relatively, pro players have thier strings. I mean folks literally accused Tosin of lying about the gauges and tunings he used.



Reminds me of Vai using 9-52 on 7s, most players here wouldn't anywhere near that light.


----------



## jephjacques

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah sounds like bullshit to me. Almost as bullshit as strandberg claiming they were doing final setups and QC on korean bodens (when they were definitely not doing setups).



who can say, really. I’m just reporting what I was told. I’m gonna give the guitar some time to settle in and then see how it is.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> Everyone is always shocked by how loose, relatively, pro players have thier strings. I mean folks literally accused Tosin of lying about the gauges and tunings he used.





Vyn said:


> Reminds me of Vai using 9-52 on 7s, most players here wouldn't anywhere near that light.


On the other side you have Jeff Loomis who in the past used an 80 string for Bb or Nile with their 70 set for Drop A. Or the BMTH guy with an 80 string on his Les Paul tuned to what? C? 
Taste of "pro" players varies just as much as that of "amateurs" I guess.


----------



## Vyn

I play music said:


> On the other side you have Jeff Loomis who in the past used an 80 string for Bb or Nile with their 70 set for Drop A. Or the BMTH guy with an 80 string on his Les Paul tuned to what? C?
> Taste of "pro" players varies just as much as that of "amateurs" I guess.



80 for C!? Jesus Christ.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I play music said:


> On the other side you have Jeff Loomis who in the past used an 80 string for Bb or Nile with their 70 set for Drop A. Or the BMTH guy with an 80 string on his Les Paul tuned to what? C?
> Taste of "pro" players varies just as much as that of "amateurs" I guess.


Lee uses the 80 ga for drop b iirc


----------



## I play music

So I have heard now a couple of times here about the Laradas being neck heavy
And then there's my back already hurting just from watching those guys: 
Maybe not as ergonomic as Abasi claim


----------



## I play music

KnightBrolaire said:


> Lee uses the 80 ga for drop b iirc


Ahhh yeah probably you are right! Or he uses the same 80 gauge for different tunings. 
Point is most would say it's ridiculously thick but when I heard him play I thought it sounded good and powerful. I must say I did not expect this string to sound any good


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I play music said:


> So I have heard now a couple of times hear about the Laradas being neck heavy
> And then there's my back already hurting just from watching those guys:
> Maybe not as ergonomic as Abasi claim




sitting and playing guitar in your bedroom for hours on end would do it to ya :/

real talk tho I sit better with my tele in a classical position than these guys do with an ergonomic guitar


----------



## secretpizza

I’m not too surprised by this. All the AAL live stuff I’ve ever heard has a good bit of fretboard slap, and having watched a good bit of his Thump instructional and YouTube tutorials, you can see that he doesn’t hit the strings super hard for the fingerstyle stuff. I’ve also had the experience of the bridge ‘active’ mode being a bit too hot though - I usually keep my Abasi bridge pup in the 2nd voice.

I’d agree with MaxofMetal re: string gauges - I always have the thought that the only place I hear about crazy heavy strings is on SSO or other message boards. I will admit that sometimes I find the gauges a little crazy (Jason Richardson using .09-59 for Drop G, etc) but overall I’ve never really understood the desire for heavy gauges. I find I’m much more able to maintain economy of motion with a lighter gauge, but that’s just me.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> Everyone is always shocked by how loose, relatively, pro players have thier strings. I mean folks literally accused Tosin of lying about the gauges and tunings he used.


Tosin's a great guitar player who can do anything, but I'm most jealous of his light touch so that he can play a 73 in drop E.


----------



## jephjacques

secretpizza said:


> I’m not too surprised by this. All the AAL live stuff I’ve ever heard has a good bit of fretboard slap, and having watched a good bit of his Thump instructional and YouTube tutorials, you can see that he doesn’t hit the strings super hard for the fingerstyle stuff. I’ve also had the experience of the bridge ‘active’ mode being a bit too hot though - I usually keep my Abasi bridge pup in the 2nd voice.
> 
> I’d agree with MaxofMetal re: string gauges - I always have the thought that the only place I hear about crazy heavy strings is on SSO or other message boards. I will admit that sometimes I find the gauges a little crazy (Jason Richardson using .09-59 for Drop G, etc) but overall I’ve never really understood the desire for heavy gauges. I find I’m much more able to maintain economy of motion with a lighter gauge, but that’s just me.




Yeah I agree! I’ve always preferred the sound and feel of 74s on my 8s, anything else feels too much like a bass to me.


----------



## xzacx

Vyn said:


> Reminds me of Vai using 9-52 on 7s, most players here wouldn't anywhere near that light.



9-54 for me on 25.5" scales...but I do tune down a half step hahah.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@jephjacques : Some obvious questions (just making sure): Did you test different reliefs/actions/string gauges/etc. ? Also, fret leveling issues can definitely create buzz. Tonewise, did you play with the pickup height ?



Vyn said:


> Reminds me of Vai using 9-52 on 7s, most players here wouldn't anywhere near that light.



Per Nilsson uses 9-42 + a 56 on his 7s. I do as well on my J Larada. I’m considering switching to 9.5s or 9-46 with a 62.


----------



## Vyn

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @jephjacques : Some obvious questions (just making sure): Did you test different reliefs/actions/string gauges/etc. ? Also, fret leveling issues can definitely create buzz. Tonewise, did you play with the pickup height ?
> 
> 
> 
> Per Nilsson uses 9-42 + a 56 on his 7s. I do as well on my J Larada. I’m considering switching to 9.5s or 9-46 with a 62.



I've been using 9-46 + 62 for B standard, Bb Standard, Drop A and drop Bb (tuned up half) for a long time now. I don't know why however that gauge just seems to work.

I do have a couple of guitars tuned with the Nile gauges however that's really for the tone more than anything else. Bending a 70 in A hurts haha.


----------



## Restarted

secretpizza said:


> I've never really understood the desire for heavy gauges. I find I’m much more able to maintain economy of motion with a lighter gauge, but that’s just me.



If you pick hard, then you need some tension so that the string doesn't bend out of tune. Some players need that. 



jephjacques said:


> stuff I’m not 100% sold on:
> 
> very buzzy. I was told by Ivan at Abasi that this is a feature not a bug, it’s just how Tosin sets up his guitars. You need to use a super light touch, particularly on the bass strings. No hammering on the strings a la John Browne.



If you don't hear buzz through the amp, then I don't think they're bullshitting. The tech/luthier I take my guitars to calls it "sweet buzz" and it's how he sets up his guitars. Lowest possible action, super light tension, buzzy af when played acoustically but no buzz or dead notes through amp and it still sustains well (not as well as higher action and tension)


----------



## bzhang9

I play music said:


> So I have heard now a couple of times here about the Laradas being neck heavy
> And then there's my back already hurting just from watching those guys:
> Maybe not as ergonomic as Abasi claim




normal 8s already have neck dive due to thick neck

abasi guitars body appear to have less mass away from the neck and more mass towards the neck, with overall thin body, and big headstock, which seems like neck dive city


----------



## jephjacques

bzhang9 said:


> normal 8s already have neck dive due to thick neck
> 
> abasi guitars body appear to have less mass away from the neck and more mass towards the neck, with overall thin body, and big headstock, which seems like neck dive city



it’s not noticeable at all in classical position or with a strap on. If you put it on your right leg it just depends on where you rest your right arm while playing. It works fine for me but I can see how it would be an issue for some people.


----------



## jephjacques

Update: ordered a set of fishman moderns to swap into mine, we’ll see if that does the trick. The Abasi bridge pickup really isn’t my cup of tea.


----------



## nickgray

Restarted said:


> If you don't hear buzz through the amp, then I don't think they're bullshitting.



I used to be pretty sensitive to buzz, but after I started playing through closed back headphones, all of a sudden I started dropping my action. I think I went from ~1.5mm to ~1mm on the high E, 12th fret, and from 2-something to probably around 1.5mm on the low E (10-46 strings). Acoustically, there's definitely a buzz. But even on cleans it's way less noticeable, and with crunch level of gain it's not noticeable at all, let alone with high gain.

I think the issue is that a lot of bedroom players will play relatively quiet through the amp, and you always end up hearing the acoustic sound of the guitar (and the buzz, as the result). Open back headphones are also fairly popular, and they offer next to zero sound attenuation, so it's the same problem. But closed backs with good attenuation will seriously damped the acoustic sound without the need to crank the amp sim levels.

I think it's the same idea with fresh strings vs worn strings, and coated vs uncoated. There's a massive difference acoustically, but not through the amp.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

You’d be surprised how much fret buzz you can get away with when you plug in and use distortion. Jari Maenpaa has his action almost on the frets. I couldn’t play his Ibanez at all, every fret was chocking out and had zero sustain. Same goes for Gilbert when I tried his guitar. It sounded like a banjo but for those guys it sounds perfect through their hands. Satriani’s tech used to set up his action at less than a mm across the board with no relief so he could do those effortless legato passages. 

Then on the other hand when I talked to Loomis he said he liked about 2-3mm action at the 12th fret. Rick Graham also likes his action high.

A lot of it is what you get used to. If you played 9-56 in drop A when you were younger cause they were the only string packets you could buy then you will have developed your playing around a low tension 7th string. Same then for people using 10-46 or 11-49 in standard. You will have developed a much stronger fretting hand for bending and vibrato compared to if you used 9-42.


----------



## Estilo

Lorcan Ward said:


> Then on the other hand when I talked to Loomis he said he liked about 2-3mm action at the 12th fret. Rick Graham also likes his action high.



Interesting. I thought I saw closeups of really high action on Loomis' in his videos but I chalked it up to weird angle or low vid quality.


----------



## diagrammatiks

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah sounds like bullshit to me. Almost as bullshit as strandberg claiming they were doing final setups and QC on korean bodens (when they were definitely not doing setups).



well the thing about that is that their setup guideline is like bonkers. 

It's like 2mm on the low e to 1.5 on the high e. My random 200 dollar Chinese guitar can do that. 

You can get away with a slightly warped necked with 2mm action.


----------



## StevenC

diagrammatiks said:


> well the thing about that is that their setup guideline is like bonkers.
> 
> It's like 2mm on the low e to 1.5 on the high e. My random 200 dollar Chinese guitar can do that.
> 
> You can get away with a slightly warped necked with 2mm action.


The crazy thing is I watched Ola set up a guitar once and it ended up like Stick low action.


----------



## jephjacques

Quick tone comparison of the Larada and my Regius 8. Stock Fishman set in the Larada, BKP Juggernaut in the Mayo. Same axefx patch and pedal setup, same riff. The Larada tone is...not great, imo.

https://soundcloud.com/jephjacques/abasibsmayones/s-GV6HuT7osrc


----------



## Hollowway

StevenC said:


> The crazy thing is I watched Ola set up a guitar once and it ended up like Stick low action.


Bodens inherently can't get as low action as is possible, because for whatever reason they put a zero fret that's higher than the other frets. I wish they'd just use a regular height zero fret, and then we could drop the action at the bridge a little less. High buts make it super difficult to get low action because the string has to go "down" to the bridge, rather than "up." So it's always surprised me that Ola uses those thick zero frets.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

jephjacques said:


> Quick tone comparison of the Larada and my Regius 8. Stock Fishman set in the Larada, BKP Juggernaut in the Mayo. Same axefx patch and pedal setup, same riff. The Larada tone is...not great, imo.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/jephjacques/abasibsmayones/s-GV6HuT7osrc


Which one is which in the clip?


----------



## jephjacques

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Which one is which in the clip?



first one is the larada, second is the regius


----------



## StevenC

Hollowway said:


> Bodens inherently can't get as low action as is possible, because for whatever reason they put a zero fret that's higher than the other frets. I wish they'd just use a regular height zero fret, and then we could drop the action at the bridge a little less. High buts make it super difficult to get low action because the string has to go "down" to the bridge, rather than "up." So it's always surprised me that Ola uses those thick zero frets.


Yeah, this was either #31 or an S7G Boden 7. So I don't know how that correlates.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

jephjacques said:


> first one is the larada, second is the regius



Maybe its just me, but they dont sound ALL that different. I can definitely pick up on some of the kind of "muffled" quality that I noticed in my own Abasi set, but it all kind of gets lost in the mix.


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> first one is the larada, second is the regius


Which voice are you using? I thought V1 sounded very Tosin-y and the other humbucker voice sounded way more mainstream.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> Quick tone comparison of the Larada and my Regius 8. Stock Fishman set in the Larada, BKP Juggernaut in the Mayo. Same axefx patch and pedal setup, same riff. The Larada tone is...not great, imo.
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/jephjacques/abasibsmayones/s-GV6HuT7osrc



The second one sounds a lot better. The first one doesn't sound like it has enough attack. Just sounds eh. The moderns should help. Or switch to something else.


----------



## diagrammatiks

StevenC said:


> The crazy thing is I watched Ola set up a guitar once and it ended up like Stick low action.



Doesn't really preclude it from being possible. 

The QA guidelines that Ola has referenced is 2-1.5mm which means they set up it up like that and if it works then it goes out the door. 

The more time intensive process is to set it up for something like .75mm and then adjust it to normal people's playing height. Which I'm sure they don't do.


----------



## secretpizza

jephjacques said:


> Update: ordered a set of fishman moderns to swap into mine, we’ll see if that does the trick. The Abasi bridge pickup really isn’t my cup of tea.



How does that work with the 2/4 settings on the Larada? I’ve owned guitars with the Fishman Abasis, and I love the position 2 and 4 sounds because they nail the strat quack and tele neck sounds, respectively. Would you lose the 2 position strat quack if you’re swapping in a Fishman Modern bridge pickup?


----------



## jephjacques

StevenC said:


> Which voice are you using? I thought V1 sounded very Tosin-y and the other humbucker voice sounded way more mainstream.



this was voicing 1, voicing 2 is indeed more “normal” but it’s not a huge difference.


----------



## jephjacques

jephjacques said:


> this was voicing 1, voicing 2 is indeed more “normal” but it’s not a huge difference.



Another demo, this time it's larada voice 1, then larada voice 2, then mayones. Patch is 5153 50w blue with all the controls at noon. None of them sound "good" (I hate that amp lol) but it's a common preset and has a fair bit of clarity. I think it demonstrates the weird midrange and overtones the abasi pickup puts out compared to the Mayones.

https://soundcloud.com/jephjacques/ssdg/s-OiwB6ma79Ir


----------



## Bdtunn

Hollowway said:


> Bodens inherently can't get as low action as is possible, because for whatever reason they put a zero fret that's higher than the other frets. I wish they'd just use a regular height zero fret, and then we could drop the action at the bridge a little less. High buts make it super difficult to get low action because the string has to go "down" to the bridge, rather than "up." So it's always surprised me that Ola uses those thick zero frets.



I had my zero fret cut down to match and the thing still couldn’t go as low as I like it. It was the buzziest guitar I’ve almost ever Owed. All my others can get to where I want them. And yes I also had all the frets dressed and leveled when I got the zero fret shaved.


----------



## diagrammatiks

secretpizza said:


> How does that work with the 2/4 settings on the Larada? I’ve owned guitars with the Fishman Abasis, and I love the position 2 and 4 sounds because they nail the strat quack and tele neck sounds, respectively. Would you lose the 2 position strat quack if you’re swapping in a Fishman Modern bridge pickup?



you can still tap/split the moderns. but the entire guitar needs to be rewired if it was originally wired for tosin's version of the tosin wiring.

also the moderns have no unique preamp for the single coils so it sounds like poop.


----------



## secretpizza

That’s what I thought might happen. For me, the Tosin pickups are entirely about the 2/4 settings; I find voice 1 bridge too hot, but I work around it for the incredible split tones.


----------



## jephjacques

Update: threw a regular Modern in the bridge (the wiring isn't exactly the same but thanks to the quick connectors it just popped right in) and it sounds better. Still buzzy af though. Taking it to my tech on friday to see what he says. Might do a proper NGD after that.


----------



## Dayn

jephjacques said:


> Update: threw a regular Modern in the bridge (the wiring isn't exactly the same but thanks to the quick connectors it just popped right in) and it sounds better. Still buzzy af though. Taking it to my tech on friday to see what he says. Might do a proper NGD after that.


Just curious, but did you try adjusting the pickup height of the Abasis? I have Moderns in my other guitar, and I preferred the Moderns - then I realised I never adjusted the height properly, so I gave them a boost and I prefer them to the Moderns now. The Moderns sound "harder" to me though, so I still like them for that.


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah, tried both ways. Just not really my cup of tea.


----------



## Avedas

nickgray said:


> I used to be pretty sensitive to buzz, but after I started playing through closed back headphones, all of a sudden I started dropping my action. I think I went from ~1.5mm to ~1mm on the high E, 12th fret, and from 2-something to probably around 1.5mm on the low E (10-46 strings). Acoustically, there's definitely a buzz. But even on cleans it's way less noticeable, and with crunch level of gain it's not noticeable at all, let alone with high gain.
> 
> I think the issue is that a lot of bedroom players will play relatively quiet through the amp, and you always end up hearing the acoustic sound of the guitar (and the buzz, as the result). Open back headphones are also fairly popular, and they offer next to zero sound attenuation, so it's the same problem. But closed backs with good attenuation will seriously damped the acoustic sound without the need to crank the amp sim levels.
> 
> I think it's the same idea with fresh strings vs worn strings, and coated vs uncoated. There's a massive difference acoustically, but not through the amp.


I started playing almost exclusively through closed back headphones last year and I actually prefer it to playing through my monitors most of the time now.


----------



## Estilo

Bdtunn said:


> I had my zero fret cut down to match and the thing still couldn’t go as low as I like it. It was the buzziest guitar I’ve almost ever Owed. All my others can get to where I want them. And yes I also had all the frets dressed and leveled when I got the zero fret shaved.



Did you need special tools to dress and level stainless steel frets?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Estilo said:


> Did you need special tools to dress and level stainless steel frets?



Nah, regular steel files will be just fine. Tool steel is usually harder than stainless steel, there are exceptions of course, but it's more about the longevity of tools when working stainless frets vs. nickel silver and not the tool's actually ability to shape the harder metal.


----------



## CW7

Restarted said:


> If you pick hard, then you need some tension so that the string doesn't bend out of tune. Some players need that.
> 
> bingo. I set up my guitars the same way. They’re al basically at or UNDER 1mm at the 12th fret. It’s physically impossible to achieve this is ZERO buzz. There’s going to be the “sweet Buzz” referenced .
> If you listen close to Tosin’s YouTube/IG stuff , you can hear the aforementioned buzz a
> /slapping of the strings. It’s just part of the equation when you run crazy low action. I actually like it. I do a lot of hybrid picking , as well as legato and such, and it contributes to my overall sound for sure. Once you learn to “play around it”, it is in no way impeding to tone, and makes guitar playing, for me, that much more enjoyable. (When I was younger I played 13s tuned to standard and felt like a bad ass. Then I started playing 100 shows per year, 2+ hours a night, and that for old QUICK. Lol).


----------



## Jonathan20022

The only part of the equation that sucks for low action is the lowered string tension near the bridge. So you have less of a responsive string to dig into, and because it will flex more it gives less tactile response when you're alternate picking. Depending on your playstyle and bridge spec it can work in your favor or not, TOM bridges have extremely high tension near the bridge like Khalers do but that is also due in part to the steeper neck angle and the break angle of the string as it crosses the bridge.

If you take any floyd or edge trem and tank the bridge to lower the action there is literally no break angle for the string so you automatically lose the string's tension near the bridge. Tilting the bridge to give you higher string tension on the bass side of the bridge and keeping the treble side lower makes for suboptimal trem performance so the best thing to do is to keep your bridge close to level.

People meme on Khalers all the time, but if I ran a multiscale ERG I'd heavily consider it. I've played numerous Khalers lately in lower tunings and even with light strings you have far less of the distinctive sharp tuning when striking a low string than any trem or hipshot/hardtail offers.


----------



## jephjacques

I should clarify that when I say the guitar is "buzzy" I don't mean "I can hear the strings hitting the frets acoustically." I mean the bass string is literally choking out. Again, we'll see what my tech says on Friday.


----------



## CW7

jephjacques said:


> I should clarify that when I say the guitar is "buzzy" I don't mean "I can hear the strings hitting the frets acoustically." I mean the bass string is literally choking out. Again, we'll see what my tech says on Friday.


Yeah so THAT is obviously not ok . Could be a number of things. (Back now, high fret or frets, improper neck angle, etc.). Hopefully it’s a simple adjustment. One of my personal non-negotiables is a brand new 3k guitar that needs work. That’s a price point that’s demands VERY high attention to detail. Otherwise, either step up the game, OR, drop the prices accordingly to reflect the so so QC that’s been seen thus far.


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah I'm not thrilled with it!


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Does anyone know the neck thickness at 1st/12th fret for the Spartan 6 ?


----------



## Chevygizmo

Had to check out this forum after seeing a reverb post. Is anyone even entertaining the Abasi VIK Eidolon guitar? $6K is a crackhead price. Not to mention this is the builder that made the homophobic remarks about Cynic - (the greatest band ever).


----------



## I play music

Chevygizmo said:


> Had to check out this forum after seeing a reverb post. Is anyone even entertaining the Abasi VIK Eidolon guitar? $6K is a crackhead price. Not to mention this is the builder that made the homophobic remarks about Cynic - (the greatest band ever).


Funny thing is Vik does build headless guitars now 
This Eidolon is nicer than the Abasis, Vik does have a good eye for design. But 6k no.


----------



## Restarted

How much did it sell for when Vik put it on Ebay? I just googled and the only thing I found was that it hit 5.3k in 24 hours


----------



## Vyn

Chevygizmo said:


> Had to check out this forum after seeing a reverb post. Is anyone even entertaining the Abasi VIK Eidolon guitar? $6K is a crackhead price. Not to mention this is the builder that made the homophobic remarks about Cynic - (the greatest band ever).



Wouldn't touch anything that stain of a human built. He can fuck off with the rest of the luthier shit list.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Vyn said:


> Wouldn't touch anything that stain of a human built. He can fuck off with the rest of the luthier shit list.


 Agreed. There are too many good builders that aren't shitstains to support, even tangentially, someone like ViK.


----------



## I play music

Restarted said:


> How much did it sell for when Vik put it on Ebay? I just googled and the only thing I found was that it hit 5.3k in 24 hours


So Vik made it for Tosin Abasi and Abasi gave it back to him and he put it on Ebay or how did that work?


----------



## I play music

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Agreed. There are too many good builders that aren't shitstains to support, even tangentially, someone like ViK.


Well Abasi promoted Vik guitars and this guitar was the result of a collaboration between Abasi and Vik. So looking at your picture you are at least supporting a supporter of a "shitstain".


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I play music said:


> This Eidolon is nicer than the Abasis, Vik does have a good eye for design.



For my tastes, I would say it's the total opposite, but to each his own  I don't know the story of the builder, so I won't comment on that.


----------



## Chevygizmo

What a waste of wood and bastardization to Abasi. Surprised Abasi even entertained him as a builder for his brand. I’ll be more surprised if a schmuck drops $6K on it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I play music said:


> So Vik made it for Tosin Abasi and Abasi gave it back to him and he put it on Ebay or how did that work?



When pics/info about the guitar leaked the reaction was, rightfully, negative so it seemed Abasi wanted to distance himself from the guitar and builder. 

Vik is a douchebag and a homophobe, but also a thief. 

He basically used the money from a run of guitars to move to America and then ghosted and didn't build folks' paid-for guitars.


----------



## bassisace

Saw Vik’s old post, he seems like a bad guy. His guitars don’t look good at all to me.

Any news on the Legion and other batches due for August?


----------



## Chevygizmo

Master Series Larada 8: September

Larada Spartan 6: September

J Larada 7: September

Space T: December

Larada Legion 7 & 8: September



Prices will vary based on individual specs. General ranges for US models are $3,200 - $3,500. 
J Larada models are around ~ $3,200 and Larada Legion around ~ $1,800.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Oh, I guess they changed the dates, not a big deal IMO.



MaxOfMetal said:


> When pics/info about the guitar leaked the reaction was, rightfully, negative so it seemed Abasi wanted to distance himself from the guitar and builder.
> 
> Vik is a douchebag and a homophobe, but also a thief.
> 
> He basically used the money from a run of guitars to move to America and then ghosted and didn't build folks' paid-for guitars.



Daaamn, that’s just bad human behaviour. I’d be curious to know his explanation for that. I can understand not wanting to touch that collab with a 10 foot pole.


----------



## Chevygizmo

It’s interesting. The comments Vik made were 2016. Abasi hired him in 2019. Knew the guys history. Clearly shared CAD drawings. I just think it’s tacky he even considered him. I’m really curious on the thought process. Even Abasi’s store on reverb is still trying to sell another Vik. Looking forward to September


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Chevygizmo said:


> It’s interesting. The comments Vik made were 2016. Abasi hired him in 2019. Knew the guys history. Clearly shared CAD drawings. I just think it’s tacky he even considered him. I’m really curious on the thought process. Even Abasi’s store on reverb is still trying to sell another Vik. Looking forward to September



Tosin has been working with Vik since 2012.

“ A premium guitar. In excellent condition. Missing it's high E string. “


----------



## Chevygizmo

Even worse. Abasi clearly gave him his CAD drawings. My point is. After digging into this I’m just surprised Abasi even considered him to do Abasi concepts. He clearly did even after the Cynic/headless comment in 2016. Surprised he even associated with this person. 


Please welcome this unique instrument custom designed and hand crafted by luthier Vik Kuletski for Animal As Leader's guitarist Tosin Abasi in January 2019. 

What we have here is one-off conceptual project created in collaboration with Tosin Abasi as a wild guess of what would Larada look if it was a double cut model. 

I tried my best to make sure that this project incorporates the original (alien?) design language used to create Larada and yet to naturally translate it to those who prefer double cut style of guitars. Dozens of hard lines and curves create a unique appearance that changes drastically depending on how the light hits the body but nonetheless very impressive from every angle. I also flipped and tweaked the headstock for more dynamic and aggressive and yet clean and elegant look that also works better for fan-fretted instruments in terms of strings disposition and tension management. 

It was an epic journey and this project tuned out to be so much more than what we originally set out for. Enough for Tosin to consider it as Abasi Concept's next thing. The guitar was finished and delivered to Tosin on Jan 23, 2019. It was in Tosin's possession since that time until the end of February 2020 when I decided to acquire it back due to lack of certainty about the state of the original arrangements we made and the future of that model within Abasi Concepts lineup.

After getting the guitar back I removed the ABASI logo from the headstock to avoid potential confusion about this instrument's affiliation with the Abasi Concepts brand (which doesn't change the facts of why and for whom this instrument was born and who owned it for over a year).

They say great things should have a name and this guitar has pretty much named itself (which is another long and cool story that I will tell some other time) - EIDOLON. Such a meaningful name on so many levels! Look it up!

So apart from that what makes this instrument unique?

First of all, this is not the kind of stuff that I normally do. ViK Guitars is my only passion and lifelong project and I'm not doing custom anything for anyone outside of those guidelines. Taking on this project was a great exception and was solely based on my personal respect for Tosin as one of the greatest guitarists of our time and my will to help him with his struggling business project. 

Secondly, this is not a production unit. It was individually designed and hand crafted in California by the Luthier for the Artist. Both the body and the neck were carved and shaped by hand not CNC. Which means there's none and there will not be a guitar just like that. 

And on top of that.. just take a look at this instrument! I've seen enough melted faces to be sure that it "hit the spot" for a lot of people, myself included. It looks even better in person than in the pics, which is a rare thing by itself.

Here're the detailed specs of this build:

EIDOLON by Vik Kuletski


----------



## narad

"and my will to help him with his struggling business project."

Had to get that nice little dig in there.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Frank and vik together 4ever


----------



## Vyn

diagrammatiks said:


> Frank and vik together 4ever



The difference is Frank has built and delivered numerous quantity instruments without ripping people off and isn't a homophobic prick.


----------



## diagrammatiks

Vyn said:


> The difference is Frank has built and delivered numerous quantity instruments without ripping people off and isn't a homophobic prick.



his business partner is literally a right wing conspiracy theorist. He’s sheltering vik. He spends more time lately posting on social media then actually building anything. 

match made in heaven.


----------



## Vyn

diagrammatiks said:


> his business partner is literally a right wing conspiracy theorist. He’s sheltering vik. He spends more time lately posting on social media then actually building anything.
> 
> match made in heaven.



Hang on, Frank and Vik are working together? I'm confused. I thought the original comparison was to say Frank is as bad as Vik and I was defending Frank.


----------



## Chevygizmo

Odd. Guitar is off Reverb.


----------



## bassisace

Anybody thinking of participating in the Abasi-Neural DSP solo contest? Big prize is a Larada 6.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

bassisace said:


> Anybody thinking of participating in the Abasi-Neural DSP solo contest? Big prize is a Larada 6.



Nah I am bad. My leads are meh and I don't think I could win on riffage.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Nothing to lose, it’ll be good practice writing rather than improvising


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Nothing to lose, it’ll be good practice writing rather than improvising



That’s exactly the reason I do some solo contests, i.e. get less bad at composing solos.

That being said, my guitar time is limited these days. We’ll see. I hope to hear solos from some of you guys. Post em here (?).


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Aye post em here it’ll be good to see, I also have a month before uni so plenty of time


----------



## AmoryDrive

https://reverb.com/item/35412343-abasi-j-larada-7-2020-black

"Hello, my#1...selling only to pay some bills will buy another one once things stabilize. got it brand new on feb 2020. very lil play time.
Tosin will not bring any more J LARADA'S so this are super hard to get specially in black., also J laradas are superior to the USA made ones."

Boy where to start with this listing lol


----------



## narad

I'd almost consider flagging that for misinformation.


----------



## secretpizza

Right in the sweet spot of reverb listings


----------



## cip 123

Neck joint on those J laradas still give me nightmares (I'm sure it feels fine just from an aesthetic point)


----------



## Hollowway

cip 123 said:


> Neck joint on those J laradas still give me nightmares (I'm sure it feels fine just from an aesthetic point)


Totally. It looks like such a design afterthought.


----------



## cip 123

Hollowway said:


> Totally. It looks like such a design afterthought.


Hoping one day to apply for a job at a Abasi, my resume will look simply like this -

Please Tosin, let me redesign that neck joint.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

AmoryDrive said:


> https://reverb.com/item/35412343-abasi-j-larada-7-2020-black
> 
> "Hello, my#1...selling only to pay some bills will buy another one once things stabilize. got it brand new on feb 2020. very lil play time.
> Tosin will not bring any more J LARADA'S so this are super hard to get specially in black., also J laradas are superior to the USA made ones."
> 
> Boy where to start with this listing lol



Reverb listing from some rando with 0 feedback selling a J larada for above list price? 

TAKE MY MONEE!


----------



## Vyn

Alright, who bought it. That didn't last long at all


----------



## Avedas

cip 123 said:


> Neck joint on those J laradas still give me nightmares (I'm sure it feels fine just from an aesthetic point)


I've said it before but they felt gross in my hands.


----------



## Randy

Did the WMI release happen? Hard to follow but I assumed I'd have seen more NGDs in here if it did? Was supposed to be August right?


----------



## Randy

Chevygizmo said:


> Master Series Larada 8: September
> 
> Larada Spartan 6: September
> 
> J Larada 7: September
> 
> Space T: December
> 
> Larada Legion 7 & 8: September
> 
> 
> 
> Prices will vary based on individual specs. General ranges for US models are $3,200 - $3,500.
> J Larada models are around ~ $3,200 and Larada Legion around ~ $1,800.



Just saw this, so next month then?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Pandemic probably pushed it back


----------



## I play music

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Pandemic probably pushed it back


People now always blame the pandemic for every delay with everything but it's not like everything was without delay before the pandemic ;-)


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I play music said:


> People now always blame the pandemic for every delay with everything but it's not like everything was without delay before the pandemic ;-)


I was literally thinking this as I went to check my emails “someone’s gonna point that out and they’re probably right”


----------



## klaim

I'm a bit surprised nobody already posted this here:


Tosin shows some of the Legion batch. I have no opinion on the JLarada neck joints, but this migth interest people who didn't like the hole/separation the the JLaradas.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Looks like the one from namm, I really hope there is plain finished with no veneers


----------



## klaim

If I understand correctly the Larada Legion ones will not have a tear-shaped neck?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Correct


----------



## klaim

Too bad... I believe the Legions will be closer to a price I can afford, but I would love to have the tear-shape (I tried it once on Tosin's prototype, 5 years ago, it felt like there was no resistance to place my left hand).


----------



## asopala

klaim said:


> I'm a bit surprised nobody already posted this here:
> 
> 
> Tosin shows some of the Legion batch. I have no opinion on the JLarada neck joints, but this migth interest people who didn't like the hole/separation the the JLaradas.




I also appreciate the fact that they're going with a larger batch this time. Hopefully they actually stay up long enough and don't sell out in a matter of seconds. Sorry if it was already mentioned, but does anyone know with the last batches how many they had up for grabs?


----------



## StevenC

asopala said:


> I also appreciate the fact that they're going with a larger batch this time. Hopefully they actually stay up long enough and don't sell out in a matter of seconds. Sorry if it was already mentioned, but does anyone know with the last batches how many they had up for grabs?


Last batch of what?

There were maybe a couple or few dozen J Laradas in the initial availability between 7 and 8 (seemed to be at least two of each option). Then all the US guitars were individuals, so 5 6 strings and 11 8 strings. Then there was 1 J Larada with the last batch of 8s, don't know where that came from. And the Space Ts seemed to be a batch of between 10 and 20 across the 4 colours.


----------



## asopala

StevenC said:


> Last batch of what?
> 
> There were maybe a couple or few dozen J Laradas in the initial availability between 7 and 8 (seemed to be at least two of each option). Then all the US guitars were individuals, so 5 6 strings and 11 8 strings. Then there was 1 J Larada with the last batch of 8s, don't know where that came from. And the Space Ts seemed to be a batch of between 10 and 20 across the 4 colours.



That was what I was curious about, how many guitars they put out in the last few batches.


----------



## jephjacques

Finally heard back from my guitar tech about my Larada 8: "It's def going to need a fret dress. It humps up in a couple of spots when the neck is supposed to be straight."

:\


----------



## secretpizza

Rough man, sorry to hear it. Hope it works out for you! The one you snagged is a real beauty.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

jephjacques said:


> Finally heard back from my guitar tech about my Larada 8: "It's def going to need a fret dress. It humps up in a couple of spots when the neck is supposed to be straight."
> 
> :\


Ugh, that sucks. Did you letAbasi know?


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah, we’ll see what they say


----------



## Vyn

Was yours a J-Larada or a US one @jephjacques ?


----------



## jephjacques

US


----------



## Vyn

jephjacques said:


> US



Fark. That's a real disappointment to need a fret dress on an instrument like that.


----------



## StevenC

This is a real turn off for me, because finding someone to work on stainless steel frets in this part of the world means shipping to someone in a different country.


----------



## Hollowway

StevenC said:


> This is a real turn off for me, because finding someone to work on stainless steel frets in this part of the world means shipping to someone in a different country.



That, and no matter what area of the world you're in, no one wants to pay extra to make a >$3000 playable. Even more reason to wait for the WMIs to show up, I guess.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

StevenC said:


> This is a real turn off for me, because finding someone to work on stainless steel frets in this part of the world means shipping to someone in a different country.


I know a seasoned luthier that works at lowden that’s do it for you, but if your paying that kind of money you want it perfect


----------



## StevenC

Hollowway said:


> That, and no matter what area of the world you're in, no one wants to pay extra to make a >$3000 playable. Even more reason to wait for the WMIs to show up, I guess.


I don't know, I can sort of appreciate that any guitar I buy is going to take some adjustment by the time it gets here. But I need stainless steel guitars to not need fretwork because there just aren't that many guys around here willing to work on SS.

I know a local guy who sells import and high end guitars who will refuse guitars for small imperfections like sub par veneers, and he still has to set up basically every guitar that he gets, whether it's Indonesian or a Schecter CS. But the whole point of stainless steel is not having to do fretwork.

I guess if I buy one of these I'll have it sent to someone in the US who can do whatever work it needs, but that's a tragic state of affairs.


----------



## Hollowway

StevenC said:


> I don't know, I can sort of appreciate that any guitar I buy is going to take some adjustment by the time it gets here. But I need stainless steel guitars to not need fretwork because there just aren't that many guys around here willing to work on SS.
> 
> I know a local guy who sells import and high end guitars who will refuse guitars for small imperfections like sub par veneers, and he still has to set up basically every guitar that he gets, whether it's Indonesian or a Schecter CS. But the whole point of stainless steel is not having to do fretwork.
> 
> I guess if I buy one of these I'll have it sent to someone in the US who can do whatever work it needs, but that's a tragic state of affairs.



Yeah, I assume I’ll need to adjust the truss rod, action, and lower the nut (seems like nuts are always too high), but I’m too scared to do my own fretwork.


----------



## jephjacques

The thing that bums me out is that it's not the frets, the neck is just warped. A fret dressing will hopefully solve the problem, but the problem shouldn't have happened in the first place on an instrument this expensive.

This will be the fourth Abasi instrument I've owned that has had dealbreaking build issues. The three prior ones were all Ibanezes that got returned. I'm not one of those people who freaks out if the treble string is .5mm closer to the edge of the fretboard than the bass string- a guitar has to have real issues before I kick up a fuss.

Not sure what will end up happening to this one. If it's playable it's playable, but I'm definitely disappointed. Maybe this will finally teach me to stop throwing good money after bad.


----------



## I play music

jephjacques said:


> The thing that bums me out is that it's not the frets, the neck is just warped. A fret dressing will hopefully solve the problem, but the problem shouldn't have happened in the first place on an instrument this expensive.
> 
> This will be the fourth Abasi instrument I've owned that has had dealbreaking build issues. The three prior ones were all Ibanezes that got returned. I'm not one of those people who freaks out if the treble string is .5mm closer to the edge of the fretboard than the bass string- a guitar has to have real issues before I kick up a fuss.
> 
> Not sure what will end up happening to this one. If it's playable it's playable, but I'm definitely disappointed. Maybe this will finally teach me to stop throwing good money after bad.


Man if the neck is warped that surely is a reason to send it back and receive a refund.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Anyone know why there's been problems? If you're paying that much I'd be expecting perfection and with someone as big as Abasi backing it up you'd think it would be legit. I'm mad confused


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Anyone know why there's been problems? If you're paying that much I'd be expecting perfection and with someone as big as Abasi backing it up you'd think it would be legit. I'm mad confused



They seem to be trying to pump these out as fast as possible, and when you do that mistakes are bound to happen. Actually getting these things built has been an adventure if you read through this thread. 

As I said a couple hundred posts earlier, these things are cursed.


----------



## diagrammatiks

jephjacques said:


> The thing that bums me out is that it's not the frets, the neck is just warped. A fret dressing will hopefully solve the problem, but the problem shouldn't have happened in the first place on an instrument this expensive.
> 
> This will be the fourth Abasi instrument I've owned that has had dealbreaking build issues. The three prior ones were all Ibanezes that got returned. I'm not one of those people who freaks out if the treble string is .5mm closer to the edge of the fretboard than the bass string- a guitar has to have real issues before I kick up a fuss.
> 
> Not sure what will end up happening to this one. If it's playable it's playable, but I'm definitely disappointed. Maybe this will finally teach me to stop throwing good money after bad.



a warped neck should be a dealbreaker man. that thing isn't going to get better on it's own. 

An adjusted fret level will solve a lot of the symptoms but if that neck still isn't stable it's just going to get worse in the future.


----------



## diagrammatiks

StevenC said:


> I don't know, I can sort of appreciate that any guitar I buy is going to take some adjustment by the time it gets here. But I need stainless steel guitars to not need fretwork because there just aren't that many guys around here willing to work on SS.
> 
> I know a local guy who sells import and high end guitars who will refuse guitars for small imperfections like sub par veneers, and he still has to set up basically every guitar that he gets, whether it's Indonesian or a Schecter CS. But the whole point of stainless steel is not having to do fretwork.
> 
> I guess if I buy one of these I'll have it sent to someone in the US who can do whatever work it needs, but that's a tragic state of affairs.



eh. it's really just obstinance at this point. most of the people I've talked to in the last few years...after replacing tools that needed to be replaced anyway don't find ss any harder to work on.

and stainless will still be at the mercy of whoever did the final setup and leveling at the factory. ss doesn't make that any better.


----------



## jephjacques

diagrammatiks said:


> a warped neck should be a dealbreaker man. that thing isn't going to get better on it's own.
> 
> An adjusted fret level will solve a lot of the symptoms but if that neck still isn't stable it's just going to get worse in the future.



yeah, I’m waiting for Ivan from Abasi to get back to me before I make the final call.


----------



## cardinal

The way to fix it is to pull the frets, put the neck in a jig to simulate string tension, and then level the fretboard itself. Then refret etc. If it's a maple board, it's even more complex as you have to strip and then refinish it.

I had a neck that seemed totally straight but as soon as it was under tension went completely whacky. 

That really stinks. The "sensible" thing would be to get a refund and patiently wait for another without the problem. But I totally understand why someone would just fix the one they have.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MaxOfMetal said:


> They seem to be trying to pump these out as fast as possible, and when you do that mistakes are bound to happen. Actually getting these things built has been an adventure if you read through this thread.
> 
> As I said a couple hundred posts earlier, these things are cursed.



It's almost like they built their business on top of an Indian burial ground. 

Sucks because these things are hype. Next thing we know the WMI will be delayed until Summer 2021 then delayed again. Cyberpunk 2077 style


----------



## cip 123

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> It's almost like they built their business on top of an Indian burial ground.
> 
> Sucks because these things are hype. Next thing we know the WMI will be delayed until Summer 2021 then delayed again. Cyberpunk 2077 style


I think there is a real Larada curse, in the period in which I built my Headless Larada copy my life hit a real rough patch


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

cip 123 said:


> I think there is a real Larada curse, in the period in which I built my Headless Larada copy my life hit a real rough patch





cip 123 said:


> I think there is a real Larada curse, in the period in which I built my Headless Larada copy my life hit a real rough patch



Like the Macbeth curse


----------



## jyym

this is making me glad I went with custom with another builder. no lottery and hopefully less chance of a bum build.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I would’ve gone with an abasi but when they changed builders the price went up (or at least at some point there was a price hike) didn’t USA ones cost the price of current Japan ones?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@jephjacques that suck man. How/where is the neck warped?

Is it because the « hump » in the body is fused with the neck and therefore prevents the neck from moving (in that area of the fretboard, roughly frets 14 and higher) when adjusting the truss rod?


----------



## jephjacques

Not sure yet. That's what it looked like when I did my own unprofessional diagnosis but we'll have to see what my tech says when he's done.


----------



## cip 123

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Like the Macbeth curse


Of course it could have been other factors in my life, but Larada Curse!!!


----------



## BigViolin

cip 123 said:


> I think there is a real Larada curse, in the period in which I built my Headless Larada copy my life hit a real rough patch



Having built the coolest Larada in existence, you deserve better.


----------



## jephjacques

Update: Ivan has offered me a return or exchange. Stand-up dude :Yesway:


----------



## Chevygizmo

And you chose?


----------



## cip 123

BigViolin said:


> Having built the coolest Larada in existence, you deserve better.


I just fixed the action and started re-oiling it I’ll need to grab some pics soon.


----------



## jephjacques

Chevygizmo said:


> And you chose?



I asked for an exchange, the current one I have is RIDICULOUSLY fun to play aside from the build issues, I don't mind waiting for a new one, and I'd like to end this saga on a more positive note than "guitar bad, got my money back, the end." Also, I'm dumb


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> I asked for an exchange, the current one I have is RIDICULOUSLY fun to play aside from the build issues, I don't mind waiting for a new one, and I'd like to end this saga on a more positive note than "guitar bad, got my money back, the end." Also, I'm dumb



You could be waiting months my man. What if heaven forbid the larada curse hits and Abasi closes shop after delaying another batch or the WMI deal falls through. Then he ghosts like BRJ


----------



## jephjacques

Then we can all lmao at me in this thread


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@jephjacques Did your guitar tech confirm what specifically is wrong with the neck or frets?


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah he said the neck is humped up in a couple spots, which confirms what I thought when I took a close look myself.


----------



## StevenC

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> You could be waiting months my man. What if heaven forbid the larada curse hits and Abasi closes shop after delaying another batch or the WMI deal falls through. Then he ghosts like BRJ


Abasi have been very good with refunds so far, but I'm the off chance I think it'll be quite difficult for Tosin Bill & Ted Face the Music Abasi to disappear like BRJ.


----------



## Hollowway

jephjacques said:


> ...and I'd like to end this saga on a more positive note than "guitar bad, got my money back, the end." Also, I'm dumb



 I wish I could say I don’t understand that last sentence, but any of us on here is in that exact same boat. We can’t tear ourselves away from the siren song of a custom.


----------



## BigViolin

Let's keep the honest folks who make good seperate from the BRJs.

K?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Well that happened


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Well that happened



what happened?


----------



## StevenC

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> what happened?


I assume he's talking about the email that just went out for a new drop this evening.


----------



## jyym

Thanks I guess for a more reasonable 1 hour window instead of a four hour window in the middle of the day?

doesn’t matter to me because I’m out of the game anyway, hope you guys have your sneaker bots ready.


----------



## jephjacques

my replacement is coming out of this batch apparently, good luck to all


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

There’s one of the finishes looks like an egg


----------



## jyym

lmao


----------



## jephjacques

egg egg egg egg


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> egg egg egg egg


Which one are you getting?


----------



## jephjacques

They're putting aside a matte black/maple neck one for me, the closest one specs-wise to my first.

EDIT: I reread the email from Ivan (don't check your email before coffee, folks) and mine is actually gonna be ready in a week or two. So not this batch!


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Lets see if they can actually make it happen within the scheduled window this time.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Meh not sure if I will even try. Jeph's story makes me hesitant of the product.


----------



## MFB

jephjacques said:


> egg egg egg egg



egg?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Yes you can offer me an egg in this trying time


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

The game is afoot. I thought I would at least try


----------



## jephjacques

still one red one left as of 5 seconds ago


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Boooo my card got declined everytime even though the money is in there. I had the graphic one and was finalizing checkout when the card stuff happened.

Fucking use Paypal Abasi. Jesus

Edit: I made that post with salt. I knew what I was getting myself into it. It wasn't the lack of availability that killed me. Just my dumb card provider. If anyone bought the Night Garden one and is having second thoughts I got you. If not I will just go impulse buy an Aristides


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Boooo my card got declined everytime even though the money is in there. I had the graphic one and was finalizing checkout when the card stuff happened.
> 
> Fucking use Paypal Abasi. Jesus
> 
> Edit: I made that post with salt. I knew what I was getting myself into it. It wasn't the lack of availability that killed me. Just my dumb card provider. If anyone bought the Night Garden one and is having second thoughts I got you. If not I will just go impulse buy an Aristides


How much of a discount were they giving for the B-stock? I didn't try at all this round, how fast did they sell out?


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Boooo my card got declined everytime even though the money is in there. I had the graphic one and was finalizing checkout when the card stuff happened.
> 
> Fucking use Paypal Abasi. Jesus
> 
> Edit: I made that post with salt. I knew what I was getting myself into it. It wasn't the lack of availability that killed me. Just my dumb card provider. If anyone bought the Night Garden one and is having second thoughts I got you. If not I will just go impulse buy an Aristides


Do the Aristides and don’t look back. I’ve owned both. You won’t be disappointed.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

TheInvisibleHand said:


> How much of a discount were they giving for the B-stock? I didn't try at all this round, how fast did they sell out?



price was still 2999 so only like 300 bucks which isn’t a lot.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

CW7 said:


> Do the Aristides and don’t look back. I’ve owned both. You won’t be disappointed.



That is good to know, I already have an Aristides 080. Would you say that the aristides is better? If so then I’ll stop wasting my time


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> That is good to know, I already have an Aristides 080. Would you say that the aristides is better? If so then I’ll stop wasting my time


Man- I don’t want to bash in a specifically Larada thread, but after owning 3 Laradas and WELL over a dozen Aristides , there’s no comparison. Everything Aristides does is executed better. Fit, finish, fretwork (this is a BIG one. The Laradas I had were “good” down to “absolutely not acceptable for 3k.” Aristides. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE is FLAWLESS. (I also have used them on the road since 2016 and can attest to their stability- they’re as rock solid as they come). And to top it off, The customer service and ordering experience is nothing short of astounding. They make the entire process exciting, and you really do get the vibe that they love seeing your build come together as much as you do. 
If you wanna PM me I’m glad to detail more about the stuff I noticed. But that’s the quick version.


----------



## AxeHappy

I also got fucked by the card being declined. With enough time left to be moved from 4 people remaining in front of you on hold down to 2 with my credit card company to get them to approve the transaction. 

Definitely should have approved it before hand, because I also had this issue with my Axe-FX 2, but that wasn't like a sold out of every unit in 20 minutes thing.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Talked to Ivan and they added PayPal functionality. It won’t be in use until next batch though


----------



## cardinal

That stinks. I mostly appreciate that my cards are looking out for suspicious transactions but yeah I guess I haven't had it hang up a time sensitive purchase.


----------



## iamaom

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> If not I will just go impulse buy an Aristides





CW7 said:


> after owning 3 Laradas and WELL over a dozen Aristides



Is this board full of professional bank robbers? Takes me a whole year to save up for a Kiesel or nice Ibby.


----------



## Velokki

iamaom said:


> Is this board full of professional bank robbers? Takes me a whole year to save up for a Kiesel or nice Ibby.



It was funny. I joined the Arium Addicts group, and suddenly there were people just casually posting about taking in shipments of 2 or 3 new Aristides all the time. I was like what, is this a drug dealer ring or what the hell? Then I made my first order (an 060). 2 months later I visit Amsterdam, and try out an 070SR in the workshop. It was soooo.... good... Jesus. I had to have it. Fast forward a month, wouldn't you know it... I received my shipment of 2 Aristides


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

iamaom said:


> Is this board full of professional bank robbers? Takes me a whole year to save up for a Kiesel or nice Ibby.




Oh I just buy and sell a lot. I generally only have 1-2 guitars at a time


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Also no student loans is helping a lot LOL


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah guitars are the only thing I spend money on, and I don't have debt or kids.


----------



## Hollowway

Velokki said:


> 2 months later I visit Amsterdam, and try out an 070SR in the workshop. It was soooo.... good... Jesus. I had to have it. Fast forward a month, wouldn't you



It’s cuz you partook in the offerings of the coffee shops before visiting the workshop.


----------



## Velokki

Hollowway said:


> It’s cuz you partook in the offerings of the coffee shops before visiting the workshop.



To be honest I was quite shocked when the guitar arrived at my place. The finish was definitely no longer this vivid RGB-color that breathed whenever I played it, and for some reason I couldn't see the notes coming out of the instrument anymore.

The 16 strings I played had also turned into a pesky 7. Still like the guitar, though <3


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Lol I am lowkey trying to think of a way to disguise a trip to their factory as a couples trip to Amsterdam


----------



## Restarted

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Lol I am lowkey trying to think of a way to disguise a trip to their factory as a couples trip to Amsterdam



I did that. Well, I went to pick up my ordered guitar so there wasn't any disguise. But my wife had so much fun too. Then we went to Jopen brewery (close to the factory) which has excellent beer and really good food too. Overall an amazing day. Haarlem is a gorgeous city


----------



## jephjacques

Next time I'm in Europe I absolutely want to visit their shop, those guys are so cool and they make such good instruments!


----------



## CW7

jephjacques said:


> Next time I'm in Europe I absolutely want to visit their shop, those guys are so cool and they make such good instruments!


I priced flights when my last one was being completed- I never thought in a million years I’d consider going to the Netherlands to pick up a guitar, but those guys are SO cool, along with the epic-ness of the instruments...at some point I’m gonna take in the whole experience


----------



## AltecGreen

For the desperate, a used six string Larada (Falbo era) just came up and is one 'sale' in Japan. It's ¥275,000.

https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop1484/DS06378254/


----------



## MaxOfMetal

AltecGreen said:


> For the desperate, a used six string Larada (Falbo era) just came up and is one 'sale' in Japan. It's ¥275,000.
> 
> https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop1484/DS06378254/



Still four of them on Reverb.


----------



## jephjacques

Picked up my guitar from my tech today. He said he had it in his neck jig for 3 days and it never settled to the point where he could even work on it. Glad I'm getting a replacement.


----------



## AltecGreen

MaxOfMetal said:


> Still four of them on Reverb.


There are a lot more than four available if you look in Japan. Quite a lot of the J7 and J* Japanese made Laradas. Not a lot of six string versions. The one I posted seemed to be the cheapest around.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Next drop at end of month.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Next drop at end of month.


where did you see that?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

TheInvisibleHand said:


> where did you see that?




Spoke with Ivan earlier in email. He also said it will be bigger so let's see. I am glad they finally added Paypal


----------



## Chevygizmo

May I ask - why get another one? How many came out in that lady batch - 6? That’s pretty much Russian roulette - 1 in 6 are duds. Someone else said they had the same issue on this forum. That’s crazy on the neck issue! This thread convinced me to go with the Artisides. The Larada looks great but it’s not getting QCd properly and just going through a CAD machine by Grover is not convincing me. The headless Aristides look stellar and the finishes look even better


----------



## StevenC

Chevygizmo said:


> May I ask - why get another one? How many came out in that lady batch - 6? That’s pretty much Russian roulette - 1 in 6 are duds. Someone else said they had the same issue on this forum. That’s crazy on the neck issue! This thread convinced me to go with the Artisides. The Larada looks great but it’s not getting QCd properly and just going through a CAD machine by Grover is not convincing me. The headless Aristides look stellar and the finishes look even better


That's an incredibly disingenuous way to count flaws. 1 guitar in a batch of 6 has a flaw, basically 20% failure rate, but ignore the other 40 guitars that are not flawed.


----------



## Vyn

StevenC said:


> That's an incredibly disingenuous way to count flaws. 1 guitar in a batch of 6 has a flaw, basically 20% failure rate, but ignore the other 40 guitars that are not flawed.



It is worth noting that we don't know that the other 40 odd didn't have any flaws. The sample size we have to go off of is basically feedback from this forum, I haven't seen anywhere else really discussing these things in detail.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Vyn hit the nail: anecdotal evidence at best since the sample is probably not representative. Also, the sample is probably skewed because disgruntled clients may be more vocal that satisfied customers.


----------



## StevenC

Vyn said:


> It is worth noting that we don't know that the other 40 odd didn't have any flaws. The sample size we have to go off of is basically feedback from this forum, I haven't seen anywhere else really discussing these things in detail.


Yeah totally, they could be 50/50 bad. Doesn't make their comment any more legitimate. If I only read the "Carvin Never Again" thread I'd assume they can't get specs right; if I only read the happy Carvin thread I'd assume they only make perfect guitars.


----------



## Vyn

StevenC said:


> Yeah totally, they could be 50/50 bad. Doesn't make their comment any more legitimate. If I only read the "Carvin Never Again" thread I'd assume they can't get specs right; if I only read the happy Carvin thread I'd assume they only make perfect guitars.



Agreed 100%.


----------



## hodorcore

they look to me like they would be neck heavy.. anyone experiencing neck dive?


----------



## hodorcore

Chevygizmo said:


> May I ask - why get another one? How many came out in that lady batch - 6? That’s pretty much Russian roulette - 1 in 6 are duds. Someone else said they had the same issue on this forum. That’s crazy on the neck issue! This thread convinced me to go with the Artisides. The Larada looks great but it’s not getting QCd properly and just going through a CAD machine by Grover is not convincing me. The headless Aristides look stellar and the finishes look even better



wait, there's aristides headless models? where?


----------



## jyym

hodorcore said:


> wait, there's aristides headless models? where?


they were just recently announced. Not available to the general public yet it seems. The scale lengths are identical to the current models.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

hodorcore said:


> wait, there's aristides headless models? where?


Just message them on Facebook or Brandon on here


----------



## Chevygizmo

Check it out on the Aristides Instagram as they just snuck a few of them in their - fanned fret 7 strings with tremolos made out of titanium. Their headless ticks every box and won't be a rubbish Indonesian made Strandberg or the ridiculously overpriced Japanese Strandbergs. Kind of disappointed on this Abasi fiasco. Really dig the finishes, the pickups and the shape but I'm not gambling on a neck issue, finish issue or the insane markup on a CAD guitar. Hearing the two on the forum here made that decision easier.


----------



## Chevygizmo

StevenC said:


> That's an incredibly disingenuous way to count flaws. 1 guitar in a batch of 6 has a flaw, basically 20% failure rate, but ignore the other 40 guitars that are not flawed.


 they don't do 40 per batch. It's like they drop 6 - 8 at a time. It looks like they've sold 20 of the USA L8s. So even 1 out of 20 (5%) is a horrible defect rate. It looks like whatever they can fit in a car and throw on a couch is what they can sell. I've read two complaints on this from that batch.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Chevygizmo said:


> I've read two complaints on this from that batch.



And those are just the ones we know about because folks posted here. 

At this point we've heard about as many glowing reviews as negative/indifferent ones as far as regular buyers, and the rest is silence. 

It's good putting things in perspective. As someone who was pretty excited about the design early on, it's just not worth touching right now. In my opinion of course.


----------



## Velokki

Not taking a dig on anyone here, but I think many buyers won't even notice an uneven fret or certain QC flaws. Many guitarists just play for fun and aren't half-professional guitar inspectors, that I see here on SSO.

I would wager that at least 1/3 of players won't spot the same QC flaws that a pro would upon inspection. This is 100% based on my experience, since I've bought a lot of guitars, but only during the last 1 or 2 years can I confidently say that I can spot a lot of flaws on guitars.

That's why I think the QC might be quite horrid for Abasi, because these posts just keep coming up. It would be really interesting to see a professional guitar tech go through a batch of these, and really give a thorough analysis.

I would also be more forgiving if these were 500-700€ guitars. Buuuut... they kinda aren't.


----------



## Chevygizmo

Kind of my point. If this was reviewed by a magazine - anything. Or any real artist endorsements. It’s being treated like this unicorn. They’re being smart about doing “limited drops” to pay rent. But can’t keep up much longer. For Christ sakes they can’t even get PayPal right. Also, how do you have “b stock” - that black garden I looked at that. What was this a NAMM leftover. That’s kind of like 3 out of 20 are “B grade or lower”. This is a nut and finish issue too


----------



## Chevygizmo

Velokki said:


> Not taking a dig on anyone here, but I think many buyers won't even notice an uneven fret or certain QC flaws. Many guitarists just play for fun and aren't half-professional guitar inspectors, that I see here on SSO.
> 
> I would wager that at least 1/3 of players won't spot the same QC flaws that a pro would upon inspection. This is 100% based on my experience, since I've bought a lot of guitars, but only during the last 1 or 2 years can I confidently say that I can spot a lot of flaws on guitars.
> 
> That's why I think the QC might be quite horrid for Abasi, because these posts just keep coming up. It would be really interesting to see a professional guitar tech go through a batch of these, and really give a thorough analysis.
> 
> I would also be more forgiving if these were 500-700€ guitars. Buuuut... they kinda aren't.


Didn’t that happen with the black one on the last batch? Neck would not settle.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

And here I am waiting for someone on this forum to post about how the Space-T actually is........


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

TheInvisibleHand said:


> And here I am waiting for someone on this forum to post about how the Space-T actually is........




Prob won't happen.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Prob won't happen.


Oh I know, but a man can dream.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I will say one thing. The fact that they made night garden a B stock instead of just lying and saying it was a normal flaw makes me wonder. IF they start labeling meh builds with B stock they don't have to take any returns or do refunds.

So expect moving forward to see that builds like Jeph's come out as B stock to void that expectation of fixing it.


----------



## CW7

hodorcore said:


> they look to me like they would be neck heavy.. anyone experiencing neck dive?


The neck dive was one of the many issues I had with it. That design, IMO, begs to be headless.


----------



## jephjacques

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I will say one thing. The fact that they made night garden a B stock instead of just lying and saying it was a normal flaw makes me wonder. IF they start labeling meh builds with B stock they don't have to take any returns or do refunds.
> 
> So expect moving forward to see that builds like Jeph's come out as B stock to void that expectation of fixing it.



Do we know what the issue was with that guitar?


----------



## diagrammatiks

eh usually b stock is like cosmetic and aesthetic issues.

a warped neck is usually a rebuild issue.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> Do we know what the issue was with that guitar?



"This particular build had some minor cosmetic flaws (see pictures - side of the nute, paint transition on the side of the fingerboard, a dust speck trapped under the finish). In all other regards, it sounds, feels, and looks beautiful. We've gone ahead and extended special discount pricing to account for the cosmetic issues. "

Link: https://abasiconcepts.com/collectio...s/larada-8-master-series-night-garden-b-stock


----------



## cip 123

Chevygizmo said:


> Check it out on the Aristides Instagram as they just snuck a few of them in their - fanned fret 7 strings with tremolos made out of titanium. Their headless ticks every box and won't be a rubbish Indonesian made Strandberg or the ridiculously overpriced Japanese Strandbergs. Kind of disappointed on this Abasi fiasco. Really dig the finishes, the pickups and the shape but I'm not gambling on a neck issue, finish issue or the insane markup on a CAD guitar. Hearing the two on the forum here made that decision easier.


What do you mean by CAD guitar?


----------



## StevenC

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I will say one thing. The fact that they made night garden a B stock instead of just lying and saying it was a normal flaw makes me wonder. IF they start labeling meh builds with B stock they don't have to take any returns or do refunds.
> 
> So expect moving forward to see that builds like Jeph's come out as B stock to void that expectation of fixing it.


That's a real leap right there.

This forum is so traumatised from every shady creep stealing their money that a brand with a good history of offering and delivering refunds, being upfront on things and only selling finished guitars is getting preemptively shit on for hypothetical future crimes.

I'm trying not to defend too strongly a brand I have no affiliation with, but for goodness sake some people in here are acting like Tosin asked BRJ to build the guitars.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> That's a real leap right there.
> 
> This forum is so traumatised from every shady creep stealing their money that a brand with a good history of offering and delivering refunds, being upfront on things and only selling finished guitars is getting preemptively shit on for hypothetical future crimes.
> 
> I'm trying not to defend too strongly a brand I have no affiliation with, but for goodness sake some people in here are acting like Tosin asked BRJ to build the guitars.



How the company is run has little to do with how well another company builds the guitars. 

So they can be a great company that does everything the right way (at least for the time being), and still offer a product that's a little too risky of a proposition for some. 

Past Falbo mess aside, I think they're doing well. I still wouldn't buy one or recommend them to someone in most cases.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> How the company is run has little to do with how well another company builds the guitars.
> 
> So they can be a great company that does everything the right way (at least for the time being), and still offer a product that's a little too risky of a proposition for some.
> 
> Past Falbo mess aside, I think they're doing well. I still wouldn't buy one or recommend them to someone in most cases.


And that's a very reasonable criticism as opposed to "1 in 6 guitars are unplayable" or "B-stocks are a scam"


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

StevenC said:


> That's a real leap right there.
> 
> This forum is so traumatised from every shady creep stealing their money that a brand with a good history of offering and delivering refunds, being upfront on things and only selling finished guitars is getting preemptively shit on for hypothetical future crimes.
> 
> I'm trying not to defend too strongly a brand I have no affiliation with, but for goodness sake some people in here are acting like Tosin asked BRJ to build the guitars.



We are allowed to be cautious of a company who honestly has yet to fully prove themselves product wise. Regardless of where you come from. I was never in the BRJ or any other bad runs. If I am spending 3k on an instrument I do my research and am cautious. I am merely pointing out the fact if they label it B-stock they have more leniency.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

StevenC said:


> And that's a very reasonable criticism as opposed to "1 in 6 guitars are unplayable" or "B-stocks are a scam"



Never said B stocks are scam. Just pointed out they can void certain things like someone railing their instrument fit and finish wise because they disclosed it ahead of time.


----------



## jephjacques

I mean, that description sounds like a perfectly normal b-stock? I'd be leery if they put the one I'm sending back for sale again without a total refret/fretboard leveling, but that's not what we're talking about here.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> I mean, that description sounds like a perfectly normal b-stock? I'd be leery if they put the one I'm sending back for sale again without a total refret/fretboard leveling, but that's not what we're talking about here.


Yeah I never brought up it being a scam. That is a jump.

For reference what color is your messed up one? As to avoid that down the road


----------



## jephjacques

Black, but I think you're jumping to conclusions here.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Just being cautious. I don't like black guitars so I won't get one anyway LOL


----------



## Chevygizmo

jephjacques said:


> Do we know what the issue was with that guitar?


You can see the photos on their site. The nut, the finish by the neck joint.


----------



## Chevygizmo

MaxOfMetal said:


> How the company is run has little to do with how well another company builds the guitars.
> 
> So they can be a great company that does everything the right way (at least for the time being), and still offer a product that's a little too risky of a proposition for some.
> 
> Past Falbo mess aside, I think they're doing well. I still wouldn't buy one or recommend them to someone in most cases.


Agree. They just need to focus on the QA. I’m not a big fan of Solar Guitars but from


----------



## Chevygizmo

Changing the thread. Anyone purchase anything from the last batch and share why it’s awesome?


----------



## Chevygizmo

Chevygizmo said:


> Agree. They just need to focus on the QA. I’m not a big fan of Solar Guitars but from


He has the QA process down. Everyone I’ve seen was amazing from frets to finish.


----------



## bassisace

I agree with @MaxOfMetal that the Abasi QA problems don't make me want to shell out 3000 dollars for one of their guitars at the moment. Let's hope it gets better as time goes on. @HungryGuitarStudent are you still thinking of getting a Spartan?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

No, I ordered a Suhr custom, due in 10 months, and I’ll receive a Suhr Modern probably next week (found a good deal).


----------



## Chevygizmo

These are live. Made the decision to get this a lot easier - https://aristidesinstruments.com/guitars/h-series


----------



## cip 123

Chevygizmo said:


> Check it out on the Aristides Instagram as they just snuck a few of them in their - fanned fret 7 strings with tremolos made out of titanium. Their headless ticks every box and won't be a rubbish Indonesian made Strandberg or the ridiculously overpriced Japanese Strandbergs. Kind of disappointed on this Abasi fiasco. Really dig the finishes, the pickups and the shape but I'm not gambling on a neck issue, finish issue or the insane markup on a CAD guitar. Hearing the two on the forum here made that decision easier.


If by CAD guitar you mean a CNC, every guitar aside from a boutique small shop is most likely built with one.

CAD/CNC does not build your guitar, it saves time in manufacturing, thats about it. It doesn't dry your wood, it doesn't put paint on, it doesn't put the frets in. That's still done by a guitar builder. Neck issues can happen on any instrument, and when your building a neck out of super strong woods like Wenge, if you get a problem it can often times mean you're screwed since it means it's going to hold that shape/problem very strongly, like @jephjacques guitar.

CAD/CNC doesn't eliminate problems, and it doesn't mean there should be less markup on instruments, they still need to be built properly.


----------



## Chevygizmo

To clarify. I agree. But it does not take skill to push a button on a CNC machine. You need to know how to select wood, then finish the guitar when it comes out. I don’t think Grover is really doing that at 70. I don’t think Tosin knows how to do that. I’m saying the QA and inspection afterwards. Listen I want it to work. Love the shape! Think he should go a different route. This 2 person operation is taking on too much


----------



## StevenC

Chevygizmo said:


> I don’t think Grover is really doing that at 70.


What?


----------



## jyym

Why do you think Abasi went with a 27.5 to 25.5 scale? Especially since he’s personally a drop E player.


----------



## Chevygizmo

StevenC said:


> What?


https://www.groverjackson.com/ - I
Thought this was the builder.


----------



## StevenC

Chevygizmo said:


> https://www.groverjackson.com/ - I
> Thought this was the builder.


No, what reason do you have to believe that Grover isn't selecting good wood?


----------



## AltecGreen

Chevygizmo said:


> To clarify. I agree. But it does not take skill to push a button on a CNC machine. You need to know how to select wood, then finish the guitar when it comes out. I don’t think Grover is really doing that at 70. I don’t think Tosin knows how to do that. I’m saying the QA and inspection afterwards. Listen I want it to work. Love the shape! Think he should go a different route. This 2 person operation is taking on too much



It doesn't take skill to push a button. It does take skill in programming the CNC and doing the set-up in mounting the part. You also need to understand tool wear and monitor the process. People think CNC is something magical that cranks out stuff. An amateur is going to run into a lot of problems running a CNC. You still need to understand the principles on machining.


----------



## cip 123

Chevygizmo said:


> To clarify. I agree. But it does not take skill to push a button on a CNC machine. You need to know how to select wood, then finish the guitar when it comes out. I don’t think Grover is really doing that at 70. I don’t think Tosin knows how to do that. I’m saying the QA and inspection afterwards. Listen I want it to work. Love the shape! Think he should go a different route. This 2 person operation is taking on too much


How do you start a CNC operation?

It's not just a button on mine. If I ask a random person to turn on and start a program on a CNC I'll probably end up with something broken.

If QC is the problem QC is the problem, it's just my pet peeve when I see people talk about CNC/CAD guitars as if it should affect the markup or solve any problems. 

Even pro-builders can select bad wood, for example Carillion guitars has publicly shown this mistake on his instagram. He selected a Brazilian mahogany body wing for his neck thru build and half way through the build it cracked down the middle. No builder no matter how great can anticipate everything about wood, this is likely the case in the bum neck that a User got here. Like Carillion it can work for a while until something goes wrong. I don't know what @jephjacques neck was made of, but if it was super hard, or filled with carbon rods that's going to be a pain to fix and thus this is the problem with selecting super hard woods.

Grover isn't building them personally either, Grover has a shop with a team that will be building the instruments. Grover is involved, but he's not building every guitar, he might not be building a single one for all we know I don't know how his shop runs. 

It's not a 2 person operation. It's Tosin's team (which is probably more than 2 people) and Grover's team.

I'm not disagreeing with you on QC it's one of the most important parts, just a few points that seem a little misinformed


----------



## jephjacques

Chevygizmo has some sort of axe to grind, and he's making a lot of faulty assumptions.

I don't know the story behind my guitar, whether it was fine leaving the shop and the neck warped in transit (not even sure if this is a thing that can happen, but wood is weird so I wouldn't be shocked), whether they just missed it during final inspection, whether they didn't bother doing a final inspection.

What I do know is they didn't make any excuses once I had a professional diagnose the issue, and they're replacing the guitar and covering the cost of shipping the first one back to them. They're doing their best to make it right. You can debate whether it would've been smarter to just get a refund instead of rolling the dice again, but I know what I'm getting into here.


----------



## hodorcore

Chevygizmo said:


> they don't do 40 per batch. It's like they drop 6 - 8 at a time. It looks like they've sold 20 of the USA L8s. So even 1 out of 20 (5%) is a horrible defect rate. It looks like whatever they can fit in a car and throw on a couch is what they can sell. I've read two complaints on this from that batch.



can you refer me to those negative reports? would like to investigate myself


----------



## cip 123

jephjacques said:


> Chevygizmo has some sort of axe to grind, and he's making a lot of faulty assumptions.
> 
> I don't know the story behind my guitar, whether it was fine leaving the shop and the neck warped in transit (not even sure if this is a thing that can happen, but wood is weird so I wouldn't be shocked), whether they just missed it during final inspection, whether they didn't bother doing a final inspection.
> 
> What I do know is they didn't make any excuses once I had a professional diagnose the issue, and they're replacing the guitar and covering the cost of shipping the first one back to them. They're doing their best to make it right. You can debate whether it would've been smarter to just get a refund instead of rolling the dice again, but I know what I'm getting into here.


I think the way yours has been handled is great.

I can't remember who I heard it from. But whenever I encounter a bad guitar that should given the factors be built well and is setup well but just has some problem with it's feel or wood I remember "Some guitars were just happier as trees".


----------



## jephjacques

cip 123 said:


> I think the way yours has been handled is great.
> 
> I can't remember who I heard it from. But whenever I encounter a bad guitar that should given the factors be built well and is setup well but just has some problem with it's feel or wood I remember "Some guitars were just happier as trees".



This is pretty much what my tech said too. He was like "sucks that it happened on such an expensive guitar, but these things happen."


----------



## Dayn

It all boils down to "shit happens". What matters is how you deal with it when it does. Eg, when I had a minor issue with my Strandberg, Ola personally sorted it for me and sent me spare parts free of charge.

If the replacement is a lemon, well...


----------



## Chevygizmo

I’m just looking at the thread on the feedback of some of the builds (whoever has the black one) and considering the guy is in his 70s. That’s all. I’d like to someone share a positive insight on the US build and just not seeing it.


jephjacques said:


> Chevygizmo has some sort of axe to grind, and he's making a lot of faulty assumptions.
> 
> I don't know the story behind my guitar, whether it was fine leaving the shop and the neck warped in transit (not even sure if this is a thing that can happen, but wood is weird so I wouldn't be shocked), whether they just missed it during final inspection, whether they didn't bother doing a final inspection.
> 
> What I do know is they didn't make any excuses once I had a professional diagnose the issue, and they're replacing the guitar and covering the cost of shipping the first one back to them. They're doing their best to make it right. You can debate whether it would've been smarter to just get a refund instead of rolling the dice again, but I know what I'm getting into here.



No bone to pick. Want this to be successful. Just have high expectations for $3,000+ with no options


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Chevygizmo said:


> To clarify. I agree.* But it does not take skill to push a button on a CNC machine.* You need to know how to select wood, then finish the guitar when it comes out. I don’t think Grover is really doing that at 70. I don’t think Tosin knows how to do that. I’m saying the QA and inspection afterwards. Listen I want it to work. Love the shape! Think he should go a different route. This 2 person operation is taking on too much


Whole lot of CNC machine operators out there make a very nice living off it. CNC programming is an artform in itself, and you still have to properly prep the blanks, finish sand them, finish them, and put the guitar together. Whole lot of bad takes in this post.


----------



## cip 123

Chevygizmo said:


> I’m just looking at the thread on the feedback of some of the builds (whoever has the black one) and considering the guy is in his 70s. That’s all. I’d like to someone share a positive insight on the US build and just not seeing it.
> 
> 
> No bone to pick. Want this to be successful. Just have high expectations for $3,000+ with no options


If you want it to be successful don't fill the thread up with misinformed hot takes for someone else to read.


----------



## Hollowway

Chevygizmo said:


> No bone to pick. Want this to be successful.



 No, you don't.


----------



## asopala

Chevygizmo said:


> To clarify. I agree. But it does not take skill to push a button on a CNC machine. You need to know how to select wood, then finish the guitar when it comes out. I don’t think Grover is really doing that at 70. I don’t think Tosin knows how to do that. I’m saying the QA and inspection afterwards. Listen I want it to work. Love the shape! Think he should go a different route. This 2 person operation is taking on too much





ElysianGuitars said:


> Whole lot of CNC machine operators out there make a very nice living off it. CNC programming is an artform in itself, and you still have to properly prep the blanks, finish sand them, finish them, and put the guitar together. Whole lot of bad takes in this post.



To add onto what Elysian said, a guitar builder I know who's in the >$3k range who decided to install a CNC machine in his workshop to speed up workflow and increase quality assurance said it took him 3 years to master it. It's not just pushing a button, because you still gotta tell the buttons what to do, *very precisely. *I remember he showed me a body right out of the CNC machine, and it still needed a lot of TLC. Those splinters aren't going to sand themselves out. But he cut down a lot of time, and it gave him something cut to a level of precision that's damn near impossible for any human being to nail. Not to mention he can now do real intricate inlay work for cheap.


----------



## cip 123

@Chevygizmo for the abasi top carves should I use a parallel pass or a 3D contour pass on my CNC?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Guys all his posts have been in here. He is obviously just here to either troll or spread crap. Ignore him.


----------



## diagrammatiks

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Guys all his posts have been in here. He is obviously just here to either troll or spread crap. Ignore him.



this is like the time I bought a 3d printer and it didn't just have a button for dildos. 

I thought it would be so easy.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

diagrammatiks said:


> this is like the time I bought a 3d printer and it didn't just have a button for dildos.
> 
> I thought it would be so easy.


damn here I was hoping my bespoke dildo company would be possible with the push of a button. Guess I better get back to whittling them.


----------



## bassisace

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> No, I ordered a Suhr custom, due in 10 months, and I’ll receive a Suhr Modern probably next week (found a good deal).



That’s a good choice! What made you decide to not get a Spartan and go for Suhr?


----------



## jephjacques

diagrammatiks said:


> this is like the time I bought a 3d printer and it didn't just have a button for dildos.
> 
> I thought it would be so easy.



wait, yours didn't come with a dildo button?


----------



## jephjacques

took my new dildo to my tech and he said there's a bend in the shaft :\


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jephjacques said:


> took my new dildo to my tech and he said there's a bend in the shaft :\


ima make a parody dildo in Entombed's Left Hand Path colors called the left hand shaft.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@bassisace : Always wanted a Suhr modern and found a good deal, that's about it 



Chevygizmo said:


> I’m just looking at the thread on the feedback of some of the builds (whoever has the black one) and considering the guy is in his 70s. That’s all. I’d like to someone share a positive insight on the US build and just not seeing it.



Talking about me champ ? I have a black J.


----------



## diagrammatiks

jephjacques said:


> wait, yours didn't come with a dildo button?



i didn't let pintsize order my cnc from a special website obvi.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

diagrammatiks said:


> i didn't let pintsize order my cnc from a special website obvi.



I know where you can get a micropeen diagram. A friend has it.


----------



## asopala

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I know where you can get a micropeen diagram. A friend has it.



Is this friend in Northampton Massachusetts?


----------



## AmoryDrive

Falbasi for $2700 now, in Switzerland

https://reverb.com/item/35759191-abasi-concepts-larada-6-burl-maple-maple-black-2019


----------



## I play music

AmoryDrive said:


> Falbasi for $2700 now, in Switzerland
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/35759191-abasi-concepts-larada-6-burl-maple-maple-black-2019


Good, now we finally know what's wrong with them


----------



## AmoryDrive

I play music said:


> Good, now we finally know what's wrong with them


Yeah not sure who did the "completed in Japan" part of these but that paint transition is a little rough lol As far as I'm aware any Falbasi with the black paint wasn't finished in Falbo's shop


----------



## anthony.drake

AmoryDrive said:


> Falbasi for $2700 now, in Switzerland
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/35759191-abasi-concepts-larada-6-burl-maple-maple-black-2019



Yikes.


----------



## bassisace

AmoryDrive said:


> Falbasi for $2700 now, in Switzerland
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/35759191-abasi-concepts-larada-6-burl-maple-maple-black-2019



I’d try it for 700$, maybe.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

All I can see when I look a this listing is what appears to be the remnants of the powder sugar pastry that guy ate before taking those pics. I mean, c'mon man, a little wipe down would work wonders on the curb appeal.


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

For anyone interested I have a quick and silly review of my J Laradas up on YouTube. I go over all the specs, the good bits, the bad bits etc. It's my honest take on them. Overall I am pretty happy with the 8, and super thrilled with the 7 (just more a 7 guy)


----------



## jyym

What’s the fret size on the US larada 8?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

jym said:


> What’s the fret size on the US larada 8?



I think they all have Jescar 57110 frets.


----------



## cip 123

Could someone with a Larada post a pic of the control cavity wiring? pls


----------



## AmoryDrive

cip 123 said:


> Could someone with a Larada post a pic of the control cavity wiring? pls


US Custom 6:



J 8:


----------



## cip 123

AmoryDrive said:


> US Custom 6:
> View attachment 85502
> 
> 
> J 8:
> View attachment 85503


Awesome, thank you!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

AmoryDrive said:


> Falbasi for $2700 now, in Switzerland
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/35759191-abasi-concepts-larada-6-burl-maple-maple-black-2019


I’m in a discord server with this owner, says it’s a killer guitar, just not for him


----------



## I play music

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I’m in a discord server with this owner, says it’s a killer guitar, just not for him


That's what about 90% of people will say when you ask them why they are selling something ..


----------



## dh848

Anybody else compulsively checking for updates on the legion series? Kills me how little info is out there except for a couple NAMM videos of the black/burl one. It’s the end of September!


----------



## Jonathan20022

I play music said:


> That's what about 90% of people will say when you ask them why they are selling something ..



As someone who's seen peers impulse buy shit because they just think it looks cool. It's not that uncommon that someone will buy an Ormsby with a 2 inch fan and say it's not compatible with their hands. Or buy a strandberg and not see a single benefit ergonomically in the Endurneck, etc, etc, etc.

It's easy to be cynical, but do people think that everyone is collectively selling other duds to get one over on people or something?


----------



## Meh

Anyone have news on the next drop? Their email said end of September. Dying to buy one.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Meh said:


> Anyone have news on the next drop? Their email said end of September. Dying to buy one.




Rip forgot today was the beginnign of Oct. Last I heard was end of Sep.


----------



## Meh

Lol yeah I’ve noticed this thread has been pretty on point with updates over anything else. Ended my lurking streak I’m so hype.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

said on they're instagram v soon, next few weeks


----------



## I play music

Jonathan20022 said:


> As someone who's seen peers impulse buy shit because they just think it looks cool. It's not that uncommon that someone will buy an Ormsby with a 2 inch fan and say it's not compatible with their hands. Or buy a strandberg and not see a single benefit ergonomically in the Endurneck, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> It's easy to be cynical, but do people think that everyone is collectively selling other duds to get one over on people or something?


I mean feel free to buy it. I looked at the photos and the reverb description listing the flaws. Sure, not for him, but killer guitar .. for 500 to 750€ maybe.


----------



## jephjacques

More Laradas going up for sale in a couple hours. Let the grousing begin


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Ughhhhhhh.....

I feel like my relationship with Abasi is like an abusive husband. They beat me and lead me on and I just can't seem to break up with them.


----------



## jephjacques

I'm glad I just got a new 7 because otherwise I'd be tempted by the J series 7s that are in this batch. I have brain problems


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

jephjacques said:


> I'm glad I just got a new 7 because otherwise I'd be tempted by the J series 7s that are in this batch. I have brain problems



Thats exactly my point. I know better than to want another one so badly, but I just can't help myself.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

All you people with money go nuts and then tell me what it’s like


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Meh pass.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

jephjacques said:


> I'm glad I just got a new 7 because otherwise I'd be tempted by the J series 7s that are in this batch. I have brain problems



Did you get your replacement 7 from Abasi? If so, how was it?


----------



## jephjacques

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Did you get your replacement 7 from Abasi? If so, how was it?



It's shipping out this week, part of the batch they're putting for sale tonight.


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

Went to buy the Shell Pink Larada 7 and by the time I got my info in it was gone. Guess I'll be waiting again. These do be selling quick, and still no news on the Legion models that were supposed to be teased by the end of the month September? Hmm.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

It took about 25 minutes for all models to sell out (except red Spartan 6 which is still available), which seems way more feasible than the last batch. Hope you all got what you wanted.

Oh, and I bought a Spartan 6.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I caved and got the sage j Larada with roasted maple board but then sat there on PayPal pay screen and was like, wtf am I doing? Then just backed it all out. 

The drop thing is preying on impulse buyers lol


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@r3tr0sp3ct1v3 Hahaha! That Sage J7 looks so good! It definitely stimulates that impulse. For me, I was happy to finally get a Spartan 6 after the long wait (and failed negociations to buy a used one). I sold most my guitars this summer, so this is a new wave.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @r3tr0sp3ct1v3 Hahaha! That Sage J7 looks so good! It definitely stimulates that impulse. For me, I was happy to finally get a Spartan 6 after the long wait (and failed negociations to buy a used one). I sold most my guitars this summer, so this is a new wave.


Man Im glad you got the white one!!

I saw it go, and im still sitting here staring at the red one...


----------



## CW7

I may or may not have “accidentally” grabbed the black J with the white pickups. Whoops.


----------



## dh848

The 8s still sell out in seconds. Really wish we could get info on legion!


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@dh848 : There were 4-5 models of 8s that were there for a good 10-15 minutes (olive with gold hardware, etc.). Best of luck with the Legion 8s man.



TheInvisibleHand said:


> Man Im glad you got the white one!!
> 
> I saw it go, and im still sitting here staring at the red one...



Thanks man  I think there were a couple white ones available when I bought mine, but they lasted for ~5 minutes. Red is still available at the moment.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

dh848 said:


> The 8s still sell out in seconds. Really wish we could get info on legion!



Yeah sucks they sell out so fast. I only play 8s but almost got a 7 to satiate my hunger for an Abasi. Then I realized nah, why drop 3K on this when that money can go towards my future.


----------



## jephjacques

Since we're not seeing any of the Js or Master Series getting flipped on Reverb, I suspect we'll eventually hit a saturation point where the hardcore nerds will all have theirs and then they'll be easier to grab.


----------



## Meh

Still waiting on news about the Legion release. Wasn’t much of a fan of any of the finishes on the 8s last night. And if I’m dropping 3k I don’t want to settle.


----------



## jephjacques

My replacement is on the way! Ivan also says they were able to fix the one I sent back so I suspect it'll be up for sale again at some point.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

jephjacques said:


> My replacement is on the way! Ivan also says they were able to fix the one I sent back so I suspect it'll be up for sale again at some point.


It was a 7 or an 8?


----------



## BigViolin

jephjacques said:


> My replacement is on the way! Ivan also says they were able to fix the one I sent back so I suspect it'll be up for sale again at some point.



Sounds sketchy. Do you think a level and crown would fix that? I'd love to know what their "fix" was if your guy couldn't get that neck to settle.


----------



## jephjacques

My tech said warped neck, their tech said high frets. I'm not comfortable getting into a he said/she said argument about it, so I opted to go with the replacement guitar.


----------



## cip 123

BigViolin said:


> Sounds sketchy. Do you think a level and crown would fix that? I'd love to know what their "fix" was if your guy couldn't get that neck to settle.


It could have eventually settled to a point that when Abasi got their hands on it, they could fix it. However I wouldn't wanna touch that neck if its that much of a pain to fix. Bad luck to whoever blindly buys that one when it's restocked.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Wonder if humidity played a part in it? Neck was warped in Halifax but when it got back to LA it straightened out again?

I feel like a warped neck would required them to remove the fretboard, level the neck plank again, and then put a new fretboard on.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jephjacques said:


> My tech said warped neck, their tech said high frets. I'm not comfortable getting into a he said/she said argument about it, so I opted to go with the replacement guitar.


either way, those kinds of issues are unacceptable at this price point.


----------



## jephjacques

BlackMastodon said:


> Wonder if humidity played a part in it? Neck was warped in Halifax but when it got back to LA it straightened out again?
> 
> I feel like a warped neck would required them to remove the fretboard, level the neck plank again, and then put a new fretboard on.



I wouldn't be shocked, wood is weird sometimes and Halifax's climate sucks ass for guitars.


----------



## Ramburger

Snagged the bell garden one from the last batch to go along with the J7!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> Since we're not seeing any of the Js or Master Series getting flipped on Reverb, I suspect we'll eventually hit a saturation point where the hardcore nerds will all have theirs and then they'll be easier to grab.



Either that or people are hoarding them to sell if Abasi Concepts ever crumbles.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

It's just a bad look refurbing the thing, sort of tacky for a brand that wants to seem high end or "boutique".

Just bandsaw the thing like any respectable builder would do (and does), and write it off, or just turn it into a mule.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's just a bad look refurbing the thing, sort of tacky for a brand that wants to seem high end or "boutique".
> 
> Just bandsaw the thing like any respectable builder would do (and does), and write it off, or just turn it into a mule.


Or let an endorser use it.


----------



## jephjacques

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's just a bad look refurbing the thing, sort of tacky for a brand that wants to seem high end or "boutique".
> 
> Just bandsaw the thing like any respectable builder would do (and does), and write it off, or just turn it into a mule.



Yeah, we'll see what they do with it. I'm just guessing since they took the time to fix it up.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Over/under on Legion dropping this weekend? 

Also, Im curious to know what the "big news" is that they teased last email.


----------



## AmoryDrive

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Over/under on Legion dropping this weekend?
> 
> Also, Im curious to know what the "big news" is that they teased last email.


Double-Neck Larada, calling it now


----------



## StevenC

AmoryDrive said:


> Double-Neck Larada, calling it now


Get out of my brain


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Twelve string, nine string, double cut, no cut aways, single neck pickup are all the dodgy ideas I can come up with


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Twelve string, nine string, double cut, no cut aways, single neck pickup are all the dodgy ideas I can come up with


I've been saying as long as I've been playing 7s/8s I will buy any electric 14 or 16 string guitars that are made.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

StevenC said:


> I've been saying as long as I've been playing 7s/8s I will buy any electric 14 or 16 string guitars that are made.


In some deep dark part of the internet I saw a hybrid guitar (Charlie Hunter style) with the three four bass strings strung like a twelve and the three guitar strings regular. It really haunts me what people commission


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Maybe it will be legion info?


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Twelve string, nine string, double cut, no cut aways, single neck pickup are all the dodgy ideas I can come up with


How about a Kahler equipped model?


----------



## jephjacques

Strat style


----------



## Meh

Who would have ever thought it’d be this difficult to spend $3k?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Cyberpunk 2077 edition. Gets delayed 3 years


----------



## CW7

Landed. 

View media item 3391


----------



## Sebshred

Just got my Sage 7 J Larada and was beyond stoked. Felt like a giddy kid , that is until my girlfriend pointed out this.

Not for the faint of heart!!




I’m so bummed 
Thoughts?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Sebshred said:


> Just got my Sage 7 J Larada and was beyond stoked. Felt like a giddy kid , that is until my girlfriend pointed out this.
> 
> Not for the faint of heart!!
> 
> View attachment 85824
> 
> 
> I’m so bummed



Oh shit, that sucks man. On the bright side, they have great customer service and they’ll either offer a full refund or a new guitar, both of which I’m sure you’ll have quickly. That would be my bet anyhow.

That being said, hard to know if it’s an error by QC or if it’s due to shipping. Shit happens I guess.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Jesus, thats a serious gouge.


----------



## Sebshred

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Oh shit, that sucks man. On the bright side, they have great customer service and they’ll either offer a full refund or a new guitar, both of which I’m sure you’ll have quickly. That would be my bet anyhow.
> 
> That being said, kinda surprised QA didn’t pick that up. Shit happens I guess.



Well, that’s relief if their customer service is good! I was drooling over it so hard that my eyes couldn’t even process the damage lol.

Here’s a shot from before we noticed.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Sebshred said:


> well, that’s relief if their customer service is good! I was drooling over it that my eyes couldn’t even process it lol.
> Here’s a shot from before we noticed.
> 
> View attachment 85828



Contact Ivan at AbasiConcepts. He’ll get you sorted out quickly I’m sure.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

They’re probably reading this forum Lol


----------



## xzacx

That looks a lot more like damage to me than a finish flaw that got missed. It wouldn't bother me much if I loved the guitar otherwise (although I also wouldn't wanna pay "new" price for it), but I'm sure they'll sort it out one way to the other for you.


----------



## jephjacques

Oof


----------



## CW7

Couple more quick pics. Stealth city.












E69790C8-C916-48C3-9B2A-FC9E8247233E



__ CW7
__ Oct 10, 2020





View media item 3394View media item 3393


----------



## cip 123

CW7 said:


> Couple more quick pics. Stealth city.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> E69790C8-C916-48C3-9B2A-FC9E8247233E
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Oct 10, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View media item 3394View media item 3393


Dang that's hot


----------



## jyym

By the way...


----------



## StevenC

jym said:


> By the way...
> View attachment 85851


Not really news when Tosin and Ivan have said that in this thread before.


----------



## Hollowway

Legion drops tonight. Price looks to be $1800 to $2000. The burl isn't doing it for me. But I'd like to get a decent view of the "overcast" color. My guess is that it's going to be a frenzy when they go live, but it would be cool if there were a decent number this time.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Headstock definitely looks less...."refined".


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

I guess the question is, at half the cost, are they more than half as cool as the J?


----------



## dh848

Very curious what on earth overcast means


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

dh848 said:


> Very curious what on earth overcast means



Looks like light grey in the email


----------



## cip 123

jym said:


> By the way...
> View attachment 85851


This might tide you over for a while, the design works really well as headless -


----------



## Hollowway

I think I'm getting Abasi fatigue, because even though I've been waiting for these, I'm not super interested in buying one. Or maybe I just don't like any of the finishes in this batch.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

My boutique guitar from my local luthier is costing less than these, why the hell are imports so expensive these days


----------



## sym30l1c

I wouldn't mind trying one of these, but given the issues some people have been having with the more expensive models, I'm a little hesitant about spending 1.8k.
Also, if you send an email to announce the sale, why showing a couple of shitty pictures instead of proper ones? At least they should put them on the website.
I guess they want to feed the hype, which is quite unnecessary at this point, given the guitars sell out in minutes anyway.


----------



## Hollowway

Jack McGoldrick said:


> My boutique guitar from my local luthier is costing less than these, why the hell are imports so expensive these days



Call it the Covid world. Everything is more expensive these days. People have money because no one is going anywhere, and so they're spending it on hobbies, etc.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

What will be really interesting/ maddening is if/ when the legion come through with better build quality and less issues than the more expensive models due to WMI's reputation for putting out pretty damn good instruments. 

Abasi could very well price themselves out if the legion are as good as they could be.


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

TheInvisibleHand said:


> What will be really interesting/ maddening is if/ when the legion come through with better build quality and less issues than the more expensive models due to WMI's reputation for putting out pretty damn good instruments.
> 
> Abasi could very well price themselves out if the legion are as good as they could be.




In saying that though, when the J Laradas have been good, they have been amazing. Can't speak for the US models, but no WMI instruments I've ever had have come close to my J Laradas in terms of quality or playability.


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> My boutique guitar from my local luthier is costing less than these, why the hell are imports so expensive these days


These are the same price as the import ESP LTD JRM-608. Korean labour is just less cheap now.


TheInvisibleHand said:


> What will be really interesting/ maddening is if/ when the legion come through with better build quality and less issues than the more expensive models due to WMI's reputation for putting out pretty damn good instruments.
> 
> Abasi could very well price themselves out if the legion are as good as they could be.


If these are Korean, which I believe they are, I think they'll be really good. They're teaming up with Schecter to do the QC on them last I heard, so these could well be fantastic guitars.


----------



## HellaSickTight

I went back through my NAMM videos and surprisingly found some footage I took holding the Charcoal Burl Larada Legion (I think). I remember being very impressed and didn’t realize until today that it was a more affordable model. I love the way this bolt-on is constructed vs. the original bolt-on design with that small gap. Very tempting!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I’ll wait w year and get one second hand on reverb


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

HellaSickTight said:


> I went back through my NAMM videos and surprisingly found some footage I took holding the Charcoal Burl Larada Legion (I think). I remember being very impressed and didn’t realize until today that it was a more affordable model. I love the way this bolt-on is constructed vs. the original bolt-on design with that small gap. Very tempting!



Even with your picture and the one they posted in the email I can't tell but do you or anyone else know if the affordable models have the Abasi neck shape that is on the higher end models? Because I'm not paying $2k to end up with an Ibanez wizard-esque neck.


----------



## HellaSickTight

FromTheMausoleum said:


> Even with your picture and the one they posted in the email I can't tell but do you or anyone else know if the affordable models have the Abasi neck shape that is on the higher end models? Because I'm not paying $2k to end up with an Ibanez wizard-esque neck.


I’m 99% certain it’s NOT asymmetrical. I don’t remember it from playing it, it doesn’t mention that in the press release today, and in the video of Rabea interviewing Tosin at NAMM this year Tosin is showing off the Legion first then shows off a J and says “This one has an asymmetrical neck shape as something special” etc.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Any word if there’ll be Js tonight ?

@FromTheMausoleum The neck is C or D shaped (can’t remember), not assymetrical.

Tosin talked about it a couple pages back in this thread.


----------



## coolverine

hey gang. new here. been following along as a lurker for a few weeks. was anxiously awaiting news on the legions, and despite signing up for their goddamn newsletter multiple times, i never receive the emails about drops (yes, i check junk mail), so surprise surprise when i see you guys saying legion drops today? can anyone possibly post a screenshot/s of the email that came through today? would the site update with a new "legion" nav item to purchase and estimated time to launch in the email?

thanks!!


----------



## CW7

Guitarasaurus_Joey said:


> In saying that though, when the J Laradas have been good, they have been amazing. Can't speak for the US models, but no WMI instruments I've ever had have come close to my J Laradas in terms of quality or playability.



I’ve seen the same with the J (I have a J Larada right now from the recent batch). The USA stuff wasn’t even close. J is another league entirely for the better . Very interested to see how these Legions come out. I can’t for the life of me imagine them being worse than the Spartans I saw. For over a grand less.


----------



## AmoryDrive

CW7 said:


> I’ve seen the same with the J (I have a J Larada right now from the recent batch). The USA stuff wasn’t even close. J is another league entirely for the better . Very interested to see how these Legions come out. I can’t for the life of me imagine them being worse than the Spartans I saw. For over a grand less.


Honestly I liked the Legion more than the J, price point was a huge factor in that but i definitely like the feel of the bolt on neck on the Legion as well. Mostly personal preference, but the Legions are DEFINITELY the biggest bang for the buck


----------



## dh848

coolverine said:


> hey gang. new here. been following along as a lurker for a few weeks. was anxiously awaiting news on the legions, and despite signing up for their goddamn newsletter multiple times, i never receive the emails about drops (yes, i check junk mail), so surprise surprise when i see you guys saying legion drops today? can anyone possibly post a screenshot/s of the email that came through today? would the site update with a new "legion" nav item to purchase and estimated time to launch in the email?
> 
> thanks!!


LARADA LEGION 7 & 8 launches today, [Sunday, October 11, 2020] onabasiconcepts.com at 6 PM PST.



The day has come - we are proud to introduce the Larada Legion. The Legion series packs all quintessential high-end features of the Larada in the most affordable Abasi Concepts package to date: basswood bodies, wenge necks, ebony fingerboards, and Fishman Fluence Tosin Abasi pickups. As expected, these guitars feature a compound radius and multi-scale fanned frets, offering a fusion of optimal string tension with uncompromised playability. Each guitar comes equipped with Abasi Concepts locking tuners and D’Addario NYXL strings.



Both the 7 & 8-string Legions come with Charcoal Burl as the leading model, as well as three limited colors: Blue Sage, Overcast, and Aquaburst. Prices range from $1,799 - $1,999 + shipping, case included. We are thrilled with the feel, sound, and look of these guitars, and are excited to finally share them with you!



Tosin Abasi & Ivan Chopik

Abasi Concepts


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Any word if there’ll be Js tonight ?
> 
> @FromTheMausoleum The neck is C or D shaped (can’t remember), not assymetrical.
> 
> Tosin talked about it a couple pages back in this thread.


he did??


----------



## coolverine

^thanks a bunch!!!


----------



## CW7

AmoryDrive said:


> Honestly I liked the Legion more than the J, price point was a huge factor in that but i definitely like the feel of the bolt on neck on the Legion as well. Mostly personal preference, but the Legions are DEFINITELY the biggest bang for the buck


I can appreciate that. Bang for buck Is important


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

got one


----------



## dh848

legion up, just bought a charcoal burl


----------



## jbaxter

So 25 of each limited color, curious to see how long the charcoal poplar ones are up for sale.


----------



## swollseyba

got a blue one


----------



## Meh

Bought the charcoal 8. Can’t wait to get it!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I got one of the white 8s!


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Can’t wait for your reviews


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

CW7 said:


> I’ve seen the same with the J (I have a J Larada right now from the recent batch). The USA stuff wasn’t even close. J is another league entirely for the better . Very interested to see how these Legions come out. I can’t for the life of me imagine them being worse than the Spartans I saw. For over a grand less.



I have two J's from the Japan run colors, original run ones. A 7 and an 8. Both fantastic, well built guitars. They are expensive though, especially for me in Australia. But I'm happy with them. The Legion look alright, and the bang for buck is higher, but I can't go past the asymmetric neck on the Js.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

The U neck looks good, but I agree, I’d have to try it since they didn’t list any specs on it (width at nut, thickness, etc.).


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

I think it's nice that it's AT LEAST 200 guitars for sale in this batch. That SHOULD allow a lot of people to grab one.


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> The U neck looks good, but I agree, I’d have to try it since they didn’t list any specs on it (width at nut, thickness, etc.).


I've learnt to not trust measurements anyway. 
Ormsby have favourable measurements for me - fairly thin. However the shoulders on their necks are huge and make the whole thing feel way chunkier than it is. 
At a guess, the Legion will be fairly Ibanez like in neck style. Tosin always says he likes thin Ibanez style necks.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I prefer trying before buying, but if you have to go blind (like now), it’s always nice to have some specs.

Im curious about the Legion compound radius vs the 20’’ radius of Js and Masters. Did Tosin explain what was behind that choice (just curious)?

I like that the Legions seem to have a better bridge than the Js. Adjusting intonation and action on the Js is not as pain free as it could have been, but it’s not a big deal.


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

Maybe I'm stupid (likely) but I can't see a difference in the bridge between these and the Js? I haven't had to adjust the intonation on mine, so can't comment on the difficulty. But I'm also used to intonation adjustments on floating bridges, so everything is easy compared to those.


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I prefer trying before buying, but if you have to go blind (like now), it’s always nice to have some specs.
> 
> Im curious about the Legion compound radius vs the 20’’ radius of Js and Masters. Did Tosin explain what was behind that choice (just curious)?
> 
> I like that the Legions seem to have a better bridge than the Js. Adjusting intonation and action on the Js is not as pain free as it could have been, but it’s not a big deal.


The master series have compound radius I believe.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Maybe I’m wrong about the bridge. Strings come in the back of the Legion (not the Js) but maybe it’s the same action/intonation adjustment mechanism. Dunno

Maybe I’m wrong about radius of masters (didn’t try one), but the Js have 20’’.


----------



## Hollowway

I'm gonna pass I think. I'm not really digging any of the colors, and with shipping it's going to be over $2000. That said, if there's a future run with a maple board and the pink or chartreuse, I'll probably jump in.


----------



## HellaSickTight

I ended up going with the blue sage. I’m very excited as this will be my first multiscale 8! It says it’s shipping October 15th! I like that they don’t list these guitars till they’re ready to ship, instead of having to wait months.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Is it me or do the pickups seem wider (or better aligned with respect to strings) on the Legions compared to the Js ? In particular the high e string seems to be farther along the bridge pickup.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I’m excited to play one finally. The white looked really good to me! I liked the star but meh I’m tired of pastels


----------



## coolverine

i really want a 7, but i've never touched a multi scale fan fret neck before. worried i'll hate it then have to try and sell the guitar at a loss.


----------



## HellaSickTight

coolverine said:


> i really want a 7, but i've never touched a multi scale fan fret neck before. worried i'll hate it then have to try and sell the guitar at a loss.


They’re really so easy to adjust to! I wouldn’t worry at all! It takes about 5 minutes to get used to for real.

The only person I’ve ever heard who had a hard time is Herman Li because he has a very developed physical memory for where the frets are, and says it took a while to get used to because he’s often a fret off when sliding super high up the neck for a solo while not looking.

I see this concern posted a lot on FB modern guitarist and other places and I’ve never ever seen anyone come back disappointed, hating their multiscale. It just makes the guitar easier and nicer to play. You’ll love it!


----------



## coolverine

HellaSickTight said:


> They’re really so easy to adjust to! I wouldn’t worry at all! It takes about 5 minutes to get used to for real.
> 
> The only person I’ve ever heard who had a hard time is Herman Li because he has a very developed physical memory for where the frets are, and says it took a while to get used to because he’s often a fret off when sliding super high up the neck for a solo while not looking.
> 
> I see this concern posted a lot on FB modern guitarist and other places and I’ve never ever seen anyone come back disappointed, hating their multiscale. It just makes the guitar easier and nicer to play. You’ll love it!



thanks for the encouragement! the thing really interests me is the fact that it supposedly is overall better since it more follows the way hands naturally curve, so i kinda wonder if i'll find certain chords and such to be easier to play. i am far from an amazing player, but i love the instrument, been "playing" for close to 20 years. i am super used to the Gibson scale length as I've got several Gibson's. My only other fear with these Legions are neck thinness. I've come to realized I prefer mid chunk necks. 

don't mean to speculate, but if i can't bond with one of these, how likely can I return/flip it?


----------



## Velokki

HellaSickTight said:


> They’re really so easy to adjust to! I wouldn’t worry at all! It takes about 5 minutes to get used to for real.
> 
> The only person I’ve ever heard who had a hard time is Herman Li because he has a very developed physical memory for where the frets are, and says it took a while to get used to because he’s often a fret off when sliding super high up the neck for a solo while not looking.
> 
> I see this concern posted a lot on FB modern guitarist and other places and I’ve never ever seen anyone come back disappointed, hating their multiscale. It just makes the guitar easier and nicer to play. You’ll love it!



Yeah, ditto. Multiscales are great. I've played many, and love them. Totally had the same fears before trying, but instantly acclimatized.


----------



## HellaSickTight

coolverine said:


> thanks for the encouragement! the thing really interests me is the fact that it supposedly is overall better since it more follows the way hands naturally curve, so i kinda wonder if i'll find certain chords and such to be easier to play. i am far from an amazing player, but i love the instrument, been "playing" for close to 20 years. i am super used to the Gibson scale length as I've got several Gibson's. My only other fear with these Legions are neck thinness. I've come to realized I prefer mid chunk necks.
> 
> don't mean to speculate, but if i can't bond with one of these, how likely can I return/flip it?


This guitar will have a thinner neck, but a 7 is going to be a bit wider overall so you might find you like it. Tbh these don’t look like they’re selling out insanely quick, only one has sold out so far, so the demand might only go up once they sell out. There’s about 25 of each if I remember reading that? I’d say you’d take a hit of a couple hundred bucks + shipping trying to resell it, but the demand is probably there I’d guess. These things are very popular right now.


----------



## coolverine

thanks for all the replies! it is very welcoming to a total forum newbie like me!


----------



## HellaSickTight

coolverine said:


> thanks for all the replies! it is very welcoming to a total forum newbie like me!


Absolutely! I’m quite new myself. I find modern guitars like this and kiesel and Aristides, and Strandberg are all so wonderful to play and are very competitive! 

Huge advancements in technology have made production line guitars much more reliable with incredible results! I think you’d absolutely love one, it’ll be completely different from your other guitar styles, in a fun way!


----------



## coolverine

you guys are pushing me over into clicking BUY!! AHHHHHHHHHHHH


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

If I didn't already have two Laradas I'd be tempted by the aquaburst . 

Would be great to see if they make any 6 strings in the Legion range in the future. Not sure how high the demand for 6s are though.


----------



## secretpizza

Does anyone know why the charcoal burst is cheaper than the flat finish ones? Couldn’t figure that out.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

secretpizza said:


> Does anyone know why the charcoal burst is cheaper than the flat finish ones? Couldn’t figure that out.


Bwcause the other finishes are "limited" colors.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

DOUBLE POST


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

IS Overcast just white or like off whie? I am colorblind lol


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> IS Overcast just white or like off whie? I am colorblind lol


Looks kind of grey to me. Just barely so.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Looks kind of grey to me. Just barely so.



Thank you. That is what I thought but light grey and white are among my worst colors. Should see me with a red purple chameleon finish. All I see is purple.

I expected with a name like Overcast it would be greyish or off white. If it was pure white they would have called it snowstorm or something


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Thank you. That is what I thought but light grey and white are among my worst colors. Should see me with a red purple chameleon finish. All I see is purple.
> 
> I expected with a name like Overcast it would be greyish or off white. If it was pure white they would have called it snowstorm or something



Its 2020, if it were pure white I think the most appropriate name would just be, "supremacy". The guitar would be priced on a sliding scale, and POC would pay a few hundred more and the guitar would be designed to fall apart at random. ZING.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Its 2020, if it were pure white I think the most appropriate name would just be, "supremacy". The guitar would be priced on a sliding scale, and POC would pay a few hundred more and the guitar would be designed to fall apart at random. ZING.



OOF


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@coolverine 

Do you have the option to go to your local guitar store and try a fanned 7 (25.5-27.5) ? 

I wouldn’t gamble on it. Some people also don’t like multiscale. Try it before you buy it.


----------



## coolverine

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @coolverine
> 
> Do you have the option to go to your local guitar store and try a fanned 7 (25.5-27.5) ?
> 
> I wouldn’t gamble on it. Some people also don’t like multiscale. Try it before you buy it.



i can check. i don't think the smaller guitar shops nearest to me would carry them, but i am sure there's a Guitar Center around that would likely have them. will take a gander!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Any ideas when these ship? I saw Oct 15 somewhere but just confirming


----------



## Dayn

The website said 15 October. I like the price point of the Legions. They're completely superfluous for me, but they'd still be perfect for my needs. I hope the reviews are good.


----------



## SpaceDock

https://www.guitarworld.com/amp/news/abasi-concepts-unveils-its-most-affordable-larada-models-yet

Starting to get some more attention. Really impressed by this price, I think Abasi is really challenging Strandberg now!


----------



## Ben Pinkus

The black/grey model with the burl cut off looks really neat!


----------



## asopala

SpaceDock said:


> https://www.guitarworld.com/amp/news/abasi-concepts-unveils-its-most-affordable-larada-models-yet
> 
> Starting to get some more attention. Really impressed by this price, I think Abasi is really challenging Strandberg now!



Comparing the specs of the two models (Larada and Boden), I think you're right.


----------



## cip 123

The Legion's look killer, small touch they look to have blind fret ends which is a great future proof addition against fret sprout.

Another point though is that seeing the neck specs now (as I don't think I saw them listed on other lines), wenge with 2 reinforcement rods could explain why it was so hard to fix that dodgy neck that turned up in @jephjacques Larada


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Think this will be an easy installation in the legion? 

https://www.zzounds.com/item--FSMPROBPK101?siid=197289


----------



## Mayath321

Hello all,

I'm thinking about picking up a larada legion, but I had a question. I'm wondering if anyone could tell me the spacing between the strings and the body for my right hand. I have a six and a seven string strandberg and while I really like them, one complaint I have is that the strings are fairly far away from the body when it comes to my right hand. I learned to play on a strat and I guess I'm just used to having my right hand touch the body while doing stuff on the low strings. When I measure my strat it's about 5/16th of an inch from the body to the strings. It's 9/16" on my strandberg. I guess it doesn't seem like much, but my strat feels far better. I'm wondering what it's like on the laradas? Is it likea strat/prs where the strings are flush with the body or like a strandberg/suhr where it is "far away?" 

Thanks!


----------



## Jonathan20022

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Think this will be an easy installation in the legion?
> 
> https://www.zzounds.com/item--FSMPROBPK101?siid=197289



It's a complete waste of money, I play my 060 with the rechargeable battery. And at this point I've put at least 200 hours on it on a single charge, aka 2 - 3 hours on the usb charger the day I got it after some noodling.

If the 9V died on you every other month, maybe it'd be justifiable. But I change 9V's on my other guitars twice a year at most and have left them in there for a year+.

Just unplug your guitar when you're done playing to make sure you don't waste charge.

If you want to do it anyways, then I'm sure it's an easy install. I'd probably inquire about a new backplate since the battery compartment takes up more space than the small hold required for the usb port.


----------



## Hollowway

Ben Pinkus said:


> The black/grey model with the burl cut off looks really neat!


See now I specifically do NOT like that. To me it just highlights that it's a thin veneer on there. I don't actually care that it's just a veneer but it's a pet peeve of mine when the finish is done in way that highlights the fact.


----------



## Mayath321

This is the gap that I am referring to. It's pretty big on my stranbergs, but small on my strats/the prs's that I've played. How is it on the larada?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Hollowway said:


> See now I specifically do NOT like that. To me it just highlights that it's a thin veneer on there. I don't actually care that it's just a veneer but it's a pet peeve of mine when the finish is done in way that highlights the fact.


 
They should have done one of those graphics. The black floral would have been sick


----------



## KnightBrolaire

i think it's hilarious how the solid colored ones are more expensive than the burl ones


----------



## coolverine

KnightBrolaire said:


> i think it's hilarious how the solid colored ones are more expensive than the burl ones


right?! strange thing holding me back is a solid no frills paint job is a $200 premium. like wtf.


----------



## Orfonso

Mayath321 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I'm thinking about picking up a larada legion, but I had a question. I'm wondering if anyone could tell me the spacing between the strings and the body for my right hand. I have a six and a seven string strandberg and while I really like them, one complaint I have is that the strings are fairly far away from the body when it comes to my right hand. I learned to play on a strat and I guess I'm just used to having my right hand touch the body while doing stuff on the low strings. When I measure my strat it's about 5/16th of an inch from the body to the strings. It's 9/16" on my strandberg. I guess it doesn't seem like much, but my strat feels far better. I'm wondering what it's like on the laradas? Is it likea strat/prs where the strings are flush with the body or like a strandberg/suhr where it is "far away?"
> 
> Thanks!



Unfortunately I can't help, I just wanted to say that I'm glad I'm not the only one who also prefers this! It was honestly one of the few things about my Strandberg that I didn't like. Hopefully someone else here can answer 'cause I'm interested as well.


----------



## Jonathan20022

coolverine said:


> right?! strange thing holding me back is a solid no frills paint job is a $200 premium. like wtf.



I mean I'm no professional, but everytime I've ordered a custom instrument a high gloss finish is almost always an upcharge, moreso when taping is involved to keep certain aspect satin (Like the neck, etc).

That being said, I had some extra funds to play with and that KM7-MkIII Hybrid I bought a few weeks ago was unfortunately not the best (Will write the review later). So these becoming available made the decision pretty easy to try it to take it's slot as my Downtuning 7.

Picked up one of the Legion 7's in Overcast, debating if not going 8 was the right move or not. But I've just historically never meshed with a single 8 string long term, so 

Pretty excited to spend some time with a Larada through my setup. Someone asked a few pages ago, but the spacing definitely looks larger on the 7 string Legions. Are these 8 string Fishmans? If so I may also grab the Stephen Carpenters to try.


----------



## Guitarasaurus_Joey

Jonathan20022 said:


> I mean I'm no professional, but everytime I've ordered a custom instrument a high gloss finish is almost always an upcharge, moreso when taping is involved to keep certain aspect satin (Like the neck, etc).
> 
> That being said, I had some extra funds to play with and that KM7-MkIII Hybrid I bought a few weeks ago was unfortunately not the best (Will write the review later). So these becoming available made the decision pretty easy to try it to take it's slot as my Downtuning 7.
> 
> Picked up one of the Legion 7's in Overcast, debating if not going 8 was the right move or not. But I've just historically never meshed with a single 8 string long term, so
> 
> Pretty excited to spend some time with a Larada through my setup. Someone asked a few pages ago, but the spacing definitely looks larger on the 7 string Legions. Are these 8 string Fishmans? If so I may also grab the Stephen Carpenters to try.


The 7s have the 7 string Abasi Fishmans with the 8s having the 8 string Abasi Fishmans. The string spacing and slant angle is set to make sure the pickups cover all the strings. 

I will say also, I actually prefer playing my 7 over the 8. I know the 8 is the actual Tosin guitar, but the 7 just feels better in every way. But, I'm more a 7 guy, so could just be that.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I know it isn't fair but I will be comparing my legion 8 to my Aristides 080 and 080S lol. I just feel like that is a good level. I have tried an 8 string from almost every brand and Aristides is where I ended so lets see!


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

If someone could do a strandberg vs abasi that’d be handy


----------



## xzacx

I don’t understand why people are surprised that the one that involves more labor would be more expensive?


----------



## jephjacques

Ola's got a playthrough of one up on his channel now, sounds pretty sick.


----------



## jephjacques

cip 123 said:


> The Legion's look killer, small touch they look to have blind fret ends which is a great future proof addition against fret sprout.
> 
> Another point though is that seeing the neck specs now (as I don't think I saw them listed on other lines), wenge with 2 reinforcement rods could explain why it was so hard to fix that dodgy neck that turned up in @jephjacques Larada



Mine was roasted maple with a richlite board though. I've heard horror stories about wenge being unstable, but lots of builders are using it on a mass production scale these days, and I've never personally encountered any issues with it either. I'm inclined to write my old Larada off as a lemon unless we start seeing more of them with problems like that one had.

My replacement should be here by the end of the week and I am CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> Mine was roasted maple with a richlite board though. I've heard horror stories about wenge being unstable, but lots of builders are using it on a mass production scale these days, and I've never personally encountered any issues with it either. I'm inclined to write my old Larada off as a lemon unless we start seeing more of them with problems like that one had.
> 
> My replacement should be here by the end of the week and I am CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC.



I am thinking that with the legions, we might see different QC stuff. I will review mine when it arrives


----------



## cip 123

jephjacques said:


> Mine was roasted maple with a richlite board though. I've heard horror stories about wenge being unstable, but lots of builders are using it on a mass production scale these days, and I've never personally encountered any issues with it either. I'm inclined to write my old Larada off as a lemon unless we start seeing more of them with problems like that one had.
> 
> My replacement should be here by the end of the week and I am CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC.


Ah that is slightly more strange, I figured they were all wenge!

Hoping you get a great one this time!



r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I am thinking that with the legions, we might see different QC stuff. I will review mine when it arrives


The last guitars I've had from WMI have been great so heres hoping


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

cip 123 said:


> Ah that is slightly more strange, I figured they were all wenge!
> 
> Hoping you get a great one this time!
> 
> 
> The last guitars I've had from WMI have been great so heres hoping





cip 123 said:


> Ah that is slightly more strange, I figured they were all wenge!
> 
> Hoping you get a great one this time!
> 
> 
> The last guitars I've had from WMI have been great so heres hoping



I have never had an issue with WMI. Last one I had was 3 years ago. It was an Ormsby. The quality was good just hated a 3 inch fan. I have alien fingers but that was too much


----------



## Albake21




----------



## Mayath321

Orfonso said:


> Unfortunately I can't help, I just wanted to say that I'm glad I'm not the only one who also prefers this! It was honestly one of the few things about my Strandberg that I didn't like. Hopefully someone else here can answer 'cause I'm interested as well.



Hey glad I'm not the only one either! It makes such a difference for me, especially when it comes to fast 16th/32nd note chuggy stuff on the low strings. It's probably poor technique on my part, but when theres a big gap between the string and the body, I feel like I need to put my hand at a weird angle to do that stuff. I was watching a bunch of videos with the larada and it looks like the strings are closer than a strandberg. It's kind of hard to tell though.

Can any larada owners chime in on that? Also wondering how bad the neck dive is.


----------



## CW7

Mayath321 said:


> Hey glad I'm not the only one either! It makes such a difference for me, especially when it comes to fast 16th/32nd note chuggy stuff on the low strings. It's probably poor technique on my part, but when theres a big gap between the string and the body, I feel like I need to put my hand at a weird angle to do that stuff. I was watching a bunch of videos with the larada and it looks like the strings are closer than a strandberg. It's kind of hard to tell though.
> 
> Can any larada owners chime in on that? Also wondering how bad the neck dive is.


I have a J Larada 7. It does dove some on the right leg in “traditional” position. I personally feel this guitar was designed with propped up on left leg/classical style playing in mind. It definitely shines in that position, and I find myself playing it that way the majority of the time. But it’s not AWFUL- just something you need to be mindful of.


----------



## Mayath321

CW7 said:


> I have a J Larada 7. It does dove some on the right leg in “traditional” position. I personally feel this guitar was designed with propped up on left leg/classical style playing in mind. It definitely shines in that position, and I find myself playing it that way the majority of the time. But it’s not AWFUL- just something you need to be mindful of.



Thanks for the reply. I was hoping it wouldn't have any neck dive, but it sounds like it isn't awful. It might just be something that I have to see for myself.

I was wondering if you could speak to the string/body gap on your right hand? I really prefer very little gap like on my strat or a prs. I have a strandberg and the gap is quite large. It's 9/16" on my strandberg and 5/16th on my strat. How is it on the larada? Are the strings pretty flush with the body (where your right hand is)?


----------



## den_3k

Jack McGoldrick said:


> If someone could do a strandberg vs abasi that’d be handy


Yeah, I've got strandberg too, so curious to read about comparison before buying another guitar.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Jack McGoldrick @den_3k Ive had 3 Strandbergs in the last 4 years. I sold them all (last one was 2 days ago). 

Wrote a bit about how that experience compares with the J Larada in my NGD thread in this section of the forum.


----------



## bassisace

I’m curious how quality will turn out. WMI covers a lot of brands. Do smaller brands have the same quality insurance checks and machine maintenance than larger brands? Do they do quality tests in LA and ship the guitars from there?


----------



## den_3k

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @Jack McGoldrick @den_3k Ive had 3 Strandbergs in the last 4 years. I sold them all (last one was 2 days ago).
> 
> Wrote a bit about how that experience compares with the J Larada in my NGD thread in this section of the forum.


Could you please share a link to that part of forum? Will be glad to read.


----------



## cip 123

bassisace said:


> I’m curious how quality will turn out. WMI covers a lot of brands. Do smaller brands have the same quality insurance checks and machine maintenance than larger brands? Do they do quality tests in LA and ship the guitars from there?


WMI make good stuff but ultimately it's up to the brand how final QC is worked. Schecter (Who I believe are helping Abasi in some capacity with the Legion) will have guitars shipped to the US for final QC which obviously helps. Without knowing exactly how Abasi works you just have to go on what you see and hear.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Aquaburst and Sage got me gassing haha.

@den_3k https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-abasi-concepts-j-larada-7.340917/


----------



## sym30l1c

Is it just me being picky, or doesn't the finish on the front of the headstock on the legions (the limited version) look a little sloppy?


----------



## CW7

Mayath321 said:


> Thanks for the reply. I was hoping it wouldn't have any neck dive, but it sounds like it isn't awful. It might just be something that I have to see for myself.
> 
> I was wondering if you could speak to the string/body gap on your right hand? I really prefer very little gap like on my strat or a prs. I have a strandberg and the gap is quite large. It's 9/16" on my strandberg and 5/16th on my strat. How is it on the larada? Are the strings pretty flush with the body (where your right hand is)?



i Think I Know what you’re referring to- but I’m not 100%. Lol apologies . Here’s a pic of the distance from strings to body near the bridge. 

View media item 3403


----------



## bassisace

sym30l1c said:


> Is it just me being picky, or doesn't the finish on the front of the headstock on the legions (the limited version) look a little sloppy?



If I zoom on the headstock pics for the aquaburst I see white dots on the lower headstock paint job. Is that what you're talking about?


----------



## sym30l1c

bassisace said:


> If I zoom on the headstock pics for the aquaburst I see white dots on the lower headstock paint job. Is that what you're talking about?



You mean the Aquaburst 7? That one actually looks fine. The white dots might be just a reflection.

Most of the other models (7 and 8), apart from the charcoal, appear to have some paint bleed on the headstock.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cip 123 said:


> WMI make good stuff but ultimately it's up to the brand how final QC is worked. Schecter (Who I believe are helping Abasi in some capacity with the Legion) will have guitars shipped to the US for final QC which obviously helps. Without knowing exactly how Abasi works you just have to go on what you see and hear.



This 100%.

WMI, like all the OEMs, will deliver the level of QA/QC paid for by their customer.

PRS for instance has an entire part of thier facility devoted to working on the SEs they receive (when they were made by WMI, and now), and they would have pallets worth of rejects.


----------



## bassisace

sym30l1c said:


> You mean the Aquaburst 7? That one actually looks fine. The white dots might be just a reflection.
> 
> Most of the other models (7 and 8), apart from the charcoal, appear to have some paint bleed on the headstock.



I see what you mean. It's really obvious on the Sage model. Not a big deal to me, but you don't see that type of errors on higher end guitars like Suhr.


----------



## sym30l1c

bassisace said:


> I see what you mean. It's really obvious on the Sage model. Not a big deal to me, but you don't see that type of errors on higher end guitars like Suhr.



Yep, definitely not a big deal. But for guitars in that price range I'd expect the finish quality to be a little better.
It's also entirely possible that the guitars that people receive have perfect finish.


----------



## Mayath321

CW7 said:


> i Think I Know what you’re referring to- but I’m not 100%. Lol apologies . Here’s a pic of the distance from strings to body near the bridge.
> 
> View media item 3403



That is exactly what I'm talking about! I'm trying to read the value on your tape measure, but I'm struggling a little bit. Is that 5/8ths of an inch??


----------



## Jonathan20022

sym30l1c said:


> Yep, definitely not a big deal. But for guitars in that price range I'd expect the finish quality to be a little better.
> It's also entirely possible that the guitars that people receive have perfect finish.



People really need to understand production and how it's changed in the last 3 - 4 years.

The people in Korea build excellent guitars, but they have not significantly gotten better as time goes on. They have tooled up for all these features, body styles, and specs that everyone wants at an "affordable" cost. You're not paying for a higher end instrument, WMI is pumping out equally solid guitars as they did half a decade ago. Maybe marginally better, as things tend to iron themselves out and improve as the crew building instruments gets better naturally at what they do.

You are not going to get a 100% flawless instrument out of Korea/Indonesia just because you now have to fork over 1.5 - 2x the price for an instrument made from the same folks 5 years ago.

Looking at it under a microscope is only going to net you disappointment, but the build should be 95 - 98% there in my experience.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Good for Tosin, really happy for the guy, wish him the best. The design is not my cup of tea, so I'm not sure. I like the features though and the price is perfect. To me, I find the Aristides raw-finished H/0 8-string w/ trem slightly more appealing. I have a couple of questions though:
1. How do u get the single coil voicing (voice 3)? Is it thru the 5-way?
2. How come the (sold out) "limited" edition solid colors are more expensive than the charcoal burl one? What am I missing?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Stuck_in_a_dream Charcoal is satin, other models are gloss. That’s my guess.


----------



## spudmunkey

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> 2. How come the (sold out) "limited" edition solid colors are more expensive than the charcoal burl one? What am I missing?



Seems like it's just a "solid colors are limited edition" upcharge.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

spudmunkey said:


> Seems like it's just a "solid colors are limited edition" upcharge.



Aquaburat Burl is the same price as solids and is gloss, while the brown Burl is satin and cheaper.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Limited editions are the reason the for up charge. I think that’s been said 3-4 times already


----------



## xzacx

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Aquaburat Burl is the same price as solids and is gloss, while the brown Burl is satin and cheaper.



Exactly, there's more labor involved. The pricing seems very logical. A satin finish isn't a special feature as some have been led to believe, it's just a cheaper way of finishing things. Some people may prefer it, but regardless it takes more time.



r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Limited editions are the reason the for up charge. I think that’s been said 3-4 times already


That may be part of it, but they also have more expensive finishes. Look at Aristides, for example, since their finish prices are easily accessible. It's almost $250 more for the gloss versions than the satins.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Good for Tosin, really happy for the guy, wish him the best. The design is not my cup of tea, so I'm not sure. I like the features though and the price is perfect. To me, I find the Aristides raw-finished H/0 8-string w/ trem slightly more appealing. I have a couple of questions though:
> 1. How do u get the single coil voicing (voice 3)? Is it thru the 5-way?
> 2. How come the (sold out) "limited" edition solid colors are more expensive than the charcoal burl one? What am I missing?


Voice 3 is position 2 and 4 on the 5-way, which negates any push-pull of the volume knob.


----------



## Quiet Coil

Tried telling my wife how it actually “feels good” to have no money, sure fire cure for GAS! She did not find me amusing...

Yeah, Legion 8 is definitely on the “some day baby, some day” list.


----------



## Hollowway

I get the $200 limited edition color up charge, but can we get a “those limited edition colors actually suck” rebate for $200? I mean, I’ll pay extra for a hot pink or that chartreuse color, but a light gray ain’t moving the needle for me.


----------



## Vyn

There has to be a final US-based QC on these or one hell of a QC tier at WMI, that's the only reason I can work out these costing so much.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Vyn said:


> There has to be a final US-based QC on these or one hell of a QC tier at WMI, that's the only reason I can work out these costing so much.



Or they just know they can charge that much. 

Strandberg charges real money for pretty much Ibanez Indo quality, and it's possible because the fans don't really care.


----------



## StevenC

Vyn said:


> There has to be a final US-based QC on these or one hell of a QC tier at WMI, that's the only reason I can work out these costing so much.





MaxOfMetal said:


> Or they just know they can charge that much.
> 
> Strandberg charges real money for pretty much Ibanez Indo quality, and it's possible because the fans don't really care.


Literally the same price as an LTD JR-608.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> Literally the same price as an LTD JR-608.



Apples to oranges. The LTD is hit with dealer markup. The Abasi sold direct. 

I hate comparisons like this because it's not like these things grow on trees, there are various supply chains and complexities that get sunk into making stuff like this. 

There is no one single formula to determine price, so there is definitely some industry comparison and analysis used to hit what they think will be a price that works. 

My point is, price doesn't have a 1:1 on quality like folks sometimes think.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> Apples to oranges. The LTD is hit with dealer markup. The Abasi sold direct.
> 
> I hate comparisons like this because it's not like these things grow on trees, there are various supply chains and complexities that get sunk into making stuff like this.
> 
> There is no one single formula to determine price, so there is definitely some industry comparison and analysis used to hit what they think will be a price that works.
> 
> My point is, price doesn't have a 1:1 on quality like folks sometimes think.


That's all valid. Just 8 string signature guitar from leading 8 string guitarist made in the same factory with the same pickups. If people complain about this price, they aren't complaining enough about other prices or are living in the past.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

StevenC said:


> That's all valid. Just 8 string signature guitar from leading 8 string guitarist made in the same factory with the same pickups. If people complain about this price, they aren't complaining enough about other prices or are living in the past.



Or, you know, there are more factors. 

LTD is something of a known quantity. As of right now, Abasi is not. Luckily we'll know more soon. 

As already expressed in agonizing detail, being made in the same factory means absolute fuck all. Most guitars at retail are made at one of two or three facilities. Does that mean they're all the same quality? Of course not.


----------



## bassisace

Being made in the same factory does indeed mean nothing. Small and big companies can use the same factories and even the same workers, but with different machine maintenance schedules, different worker familiarity with builds, etc. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> Or they just know they can charge that much.
> 
> Strandberg charges real money for pretty much Ibanez Indo quality, and it's possible because the fans don't really care.



This. Strandberg's QC for their Korean and Indonesian guitars has been subpar to the point I wonder if the company just accepts it as a fact of life.

I really hope that Schecter helping with QC for Abasi yields good results.


----------



## Meh

Anyone know where the legion are shipping from?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

I think the fact that many of the colors are already sold out answers any questions about why these guitars are priced as such. People have been seeing the Laradas selling out in minutes at the 3k+ pricepoint. 2k will seem like a steal by comparison. So why not?

QC issues aside, Abasi has done a bang up job of cultivating demand, waiting for that demand to marinate in our consumer mind, and then dropping Legion at what seems like an apex of consumer interest.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I think the fact that many of the colors are already sold out answers any questions about why these guitars are priced as such. People have been seeing the Laradas selling out in minutes at the 3k+ pricepoint. 2k will seem like a steal by comparison. So why not?
> 
> QC issues aside, Abasi has done a bang up job of cultivating demand, waiting for that demand to marinate in our consumer mind, and then dropping Legion at what seems like an apex of consumer interest.



And it's important to note that often the price is decided before the guitar is even spec'd out.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I have no issue with the price. Albeit I have not tried the product yet but I have no issue. It is directly competing with Strandberg imports, new BC Rich, and high end Schecters. The latter of which does not make higher end 8's.
My only issue in that range is it could be compared to Kiesel prices. I'd much rather support a smaller business venture like Abasi Concept. I also say that as a big hater of the drop system. This is a smart move I can get behind.


----------



## Jonathan20022

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I have no issue with the price. Albeit I have not tried the product yet but I have no issue. It is directly competing with Strandberg imports, new BC Rich, and high end Schecters. The latter of which does not make higher end 8's.
> My only issue in that range is it could be compared to Kiesel prices. I'd much rather support a smaller business venture like Abasi Concept. I also say that as a big hater of the drop system. This is a smart move I can get behind.



I guess my problem with WMI produced instruments being priced near or above 2k is that back when Strandberg had them build the OS7/8's I held that same stance that these are incredibly expensive. This was in a world where Keith Merrow's signature premiered at just about 1k USD, so on paper I found it incredibly hard to justify ordering a Korean Strandberg for twice the price unless I absolutely HAD to have a Boden Shape and Fanned Frets.

And I hardly believe anyone when they say they purchased a Boden 7 for the ability to downtune, because AFAIK a .75" fan with a 26.25" Scale on the lowest string hardly does anything in the way of tension. So functionally speaking, if you didn't want/need a headless guitar or had no need to try the endurneck what other incentive was there to spend virtually double the cost of an instrument that for all intents and purposes was built to the same standards? And speaking now, I have owned Keith Merrow Schecters from all generations and played the Strandberg OS line as well over the years. We can talk all day about varied quality out of WMI, but all of these guitars and even the Ormsby Metal X I have on my rack sit in the same kind of "quality" bracket.

I think the only realistic expectation that someone should have ordering an instrument that originated in WMI and respectively Cort (Indonesia) is the kind of opinion echo'd by other brands producing gear there. There's a reason these businesses are adding their own layer of Final QC/Setup before sending them out to clients, I'm confident that they still reject instruments even to this day.

Price brackets have crept up quite a bit, take Ibanez for example.

The Premium line premiered around 2012 at a under 1k, and offered numerous specs that were visually appealing. But they didn't turn out to be quite that good, I had two that were fantastic but it's pretty well documented that this series had a poor reception.

Now 8 years later, Ibanez has several lines - Gio/Standard/Iron Label/Axion Label/Premium/Prestige/j.custom. I'm not including the Genesis Collection because those are basically just Prestiges from what I gather. But that's not the point anyways, the point is how the prices have increased and in small steps how it's just become something guitar players have grown used to. Iron/Axion Label Ibanez guitars are the new Premium, price wise. Where you would get an Indonesian made Premium, you now receive an Indonesian made Iron/Axion. There are even some Axion Label guitars that break 1k and actually cost 1.4k, which is absurd to me considering that this only pushes the Premium price bracket even higher where you normally see signature AZ guitars and other models price themselves at 1.5k. 

Customers are effectively paying close to twice as much as they used to for equivalent products a decade later, and it's become the norm. The time to push back on instrument prices rising has long since past, people are willing to pay cost premium to own a particular design or try select features, that's just what it is nowadays.


----------



## coolverine

pricing of the finish aside, which, the gloss solid finish IMO, isn't all that significant to incur a $200 premium, $100 i could eat. But to me, the totality of the the finish, coupled with it being a bolt on neck and priced at $2k, seems like from a finished end product standpoint, these should be about $200-$300 cheaper to be great values. After all, they're missing that special neck profile. WMI makes lots of great set neck guitars with awesome finishes for like what, a $1500 price point? Granted, the tooling for those products are longer established and for bigger volume than Abasi (i assume), so I guess that factors in here. Are these the most expensive WMI produced instruments now?

I just think if they really wanted to make Legion the accessible everyone Abasi, they could have priced a tad more aggressively. And the jury is out on overall QC. As the new guy posting here, I am not trying to shit things up by harping on price, i've read a lot of people's issues here with the $3k+ versions, so a lot things just seem like a not great start given a price to end product history i've seen. I've got a lot of pricey Gibsons, so price won't usually scare me away, an asia made bolt on for $2k, with "cheaper" body woods, just all adds up to a miscalculated opportunity. 

definitely set me straight with objective details on why this pricing seems to make sense relative to other asia made and similarly constructed instruments in terms of materials and specs.


----------



## Jonathan20022

The problem with declaring bolt-on construction as being the cheaper of the choices (Set neck/Neck Thru), is that the logic breaks pretty cleanly immediately as you have the thought. They are different construction methods, not a point of objective value over one or another. Gloss however has been shown to literally require more labor hours to correctly pull off and therefore costs more.

I totally agree with you that at a price of 1500 for the Satin Burl Top model, and perhaps 1700 for the other 3 would have been infinitely preferable. But as I said in my previous comment, they are pretty much in line with what people are paying for instruments out of WMI through the sheer cost of production import guitars rising with time.

Abasi isn't an outlier is I guess the point I'm trying to illustrate, other brands have pushed the envelope price wise and the market responded accordingly by accepting the cost for their products. Abasi therefore has no incentive to price these competitively, there's a huge demand for the Larada design, and they're within the price where these will move.


----------



## spudmunkey

Jonathan20022 said:


> The problem with declaring bolt-on construction as being the cheaper of the choices (Set neck/Neck Thru), is that the logic breaks pretty cleanly immediately as you have the thought. They are different construction methods, not a point of objective value over one or another. Gloss however has been shown to literally require more labor hours to correctly pull off and therefore costs more.



In a production environment, with a Bolt-On, you can be working on necks and bodies at the same time, so it increases efficiency and output. It also reduces losses should you have an irreparable issue with one or the other, decreasing waste and down-time trying to fix an issue.

Set neck has some of the advantages, but then doesn't retain all of them when it comes time to attach the neck and finishing.

There is indeed objective value of one neck construction over another when it comes to the actual costs involved.


----------



## Jonathan20022

spudmunkey said:


> In a production environment, with a Bolt-On, you can be working on necks and bodies at the same time, so it increases efficiency and output. It also reduces losses should you have an irreparable issue with one or the other, decreasing waste and down-time trying to fix an issue.
> 
> Set neck has some of the advantages, but then doesn't retain all of them when it comes time to attach the neck and finishing.
> 
> There is indeed objective value of one neck construction over another when it comes to the actual costs involved.



I should have worded that a little better, no objective value to a customer in the end result. IE: Thinking that Neck Through instruments are the only ones worth spending any significant amount of money on, etc. 

But yeah on the manufacturing side bolt-on necks give them way more flexibility with production.


----------



## cip 123

coolverine said:


> pricing of the finish aside, which, the gloss solid finish IMO, isn't all that significant to incur a $200 premium, $100 i could eat. But to me, the totality of the the finish, coupled with it being a bolt on neck and priced at $2k, seems like from a finished end product standpoint, these should be about $200-$300 cheaper to be great values. After all, they're missing that special neck profile. WMI makes lots of great set neck guitars with awesome finishes for like what, a $1500 price point? Granted, the tooling for those products are longer established and for bigger volume than Abasi (i assume), so I guess that factors in here. Are these the most expensive WMI produced instruments now?
> 
> I just think if they really wanted to make Legion the accessible everyone Abasi, they could have priced a tad more aggressively. And the jury is out on overall QC. As the new guy posting here, I am not trying to shit things up by harping on price, i've read a lot of people's issues here with the $3k+ versions, so a lot things just seem like a not great start given a price to end product history i've seen. I've got a lot of pricey Gibsons, so price won't usually scare me away, an asia made bolt on for $2k, with "cheaper" body woods, just all adds up to a miscalculated opportunity.
> 
> definitely set me straight with objective details on why this pricing seems to make sense relative to other asia made and similarly constructed instruments in terms of materials and specs.


Bolt does NOT equal cheaper. Keep in mind that this is also a rather elaborate bolt on design, so it's probably not as quick to machine and finish as you regular four bolt designs. Bolt on has it's advantages in a manufacturing setting but it doesn't inherently make them cheaper. The body wood thing also it still looks like a 2 piece body on the trans blue finish one at least on the 7. And it's basswood so they've not gone the ibanez route of cheaper Chinese woods.

As for the finish pricing, I'm no paint expert but the gloss may (and probably does) take longer to reach its final product than the satin, couple that with the fact that although they may be fairly boring colours they may be custom colours for Abasi, I don't know what other brand being built in WMI will be using those colours. If it takes more time, it costs more money. 

One point I really like about these is that in the pictures they appear to have blind fret ends to help stop fret sprout (Unless they're just very well hidden). I imagine this is an upcharge by WMI as it's generally a longer CNC operation than just cutting straight through the board with a circular blade. Keep in mind some big companies with CNC's don't even do this, my Carvin for example doesn't have blind frets.

So they seem to be built with all the top specs, and extras that some big companies don't include.

$1899 dollars for the 8 which is what i'd get is about £1450 for me. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it more expensive than the competition? Not really, it's actually cheaper than a Strandberg. Would I buy it? No I'd probably still grab a used RG2228, but that's because I don't really want one. They're still sold out because people want an Abasi, they don't want to shop around cause no one else builds Abasi's. 

I think the Pricing is absolutely fine honestly, the Guitars are absolutely loaded imo.


----------



## Andromalia

The one thing I can't fault them with, is they came up with a headstock design that doesn't suck. That's becoming rare nowadays.
Zero interest on the brand since I'm an old school guy and barely even use my sevenstring and I'm into Vs more than anything else, but it's interesting to follow the development.
Interesting to see they have chosen to go the "product-not-available-for-you-yes-we're-banking-on-FOMO" route. That is becoming a real trend in all industries. Will there be a Supreme limited ?


----------



## coolverine

Andromalia said:


> The one thing I can't fault them with, is they came up with a headstock design that doesn't suck. That's becoming rare nowadays.
> Zero interest on the brand since I'm an old school guy and barely even use my sevenstring and I'm into Vs more than anything else, but it's interesting to follow the development.
> Interesting to see they have chosen to go the "product-not-available-for-you-yes-we're-banking-on-FOMO" route. That is becoming a real trend in all industries. Will there be a Supreme limited ?



their headstock design is, IMO, a derivative of ken lawrence's headstocks. don't get me wrong, i agree the Abasi headstock is pretty damn nice, but i'd also say it isn't really a new design per se. there is precedent for this headstock.


----------



## sym30l1c

cip 123 said:


> $1899 dollars for the 8 which is what i'd get is about £1450 for me. Is it expensive? Yes. Is it more expensive than the competition? Not really, it's actually cheaper than a Strandberg. Would I buy it? No I'd probably still grab a used RG2228, but that's because I don't really want one. They're still sold out because people want an Abasi, they don't want to shop around cause no one else builds Abasi's.
> 
> I think the Pricing is absolutely fine honestly, the Guitars are absolutely loaded imo.



I think the pricing is good, and if all I was really paying was £1450, I might even consider it relatively cheap compared to other brands offerings (taking into account I've not tried a Legion). But with $160 shipping, plus 20% VAT, plus customs (around 2.5% I think), the actual price is in the £2000 region. I guess it still makes it cheaper than a Strandberg, but definetely not by much.

The question to me is whether £2000 is the right price for what the guitar has to offer to me in terms of value, not necessarily in comparison with others. For that price I can get a Prestige that probably is higher quality (again, without having tried a Legion), but it doesn't have the Abasi pickups, it doesn't have the same shape, it doesn't have the elements that make the Abasi quite unique, etc. If that's what I'm looking for in a guitar, then £2000 is not too bad as long as a reasonable quality level is there.

I'm very interested in reading people's thoughts and experience when they receive their Legions.


----------



## Jonathan20022

coolverine said:


> their headstock design is, IMO, a derivative of ken lawrence's headstocks. don't get me wrong, i agree the Abasi headstock is pretty damn nice, but i'd also say it isn't really a new design per se. there is precedent for this headstock.



Hard disagree, personally. There's a difference between inspiration and appropriation.









sym30l1c said:


> I think the pricing is good, and if all I was really paying was £1450, I might even consider it relatively cheap compared to other brands offerings (taking into account I've not tried a Legion). But with $160 shipping, plus 20% VAT, plus customs (around 2.5% I think), the actual price is in the £2000 region. I guess it still makes it cheaper than a Strandberg, but definetely not by much.
> 
> The question to me is whether £2000 is the right price for what the guitar has to offer to me in terms of value, not necessarily in comparison with others. For that price I can get a Prestige that probably is higher quality (again, without having tried a Legion), but it doesn't have the Abasi pickups, it doesn't have the same shape, it doesn't have the elements that make the Abasi quite unique, etc. If that's what I'm looking for in a guitar, then £2000 is not too bad as long as a reasonable quality level is there.
> 
> I'm very interested in reading people's thoughts and experience when they receive their Legions.



The issue is that Strandberg is on paper the very worst example to compare against for any sort of cost value. They charge the same amount for what I assume an equivalent offering would be the Metal 7 series, except it's currently built in Indonesia.

Even fees and shipping withstanding, it's crazy to me that now it's semi-reasonable to think that a $2000 instrument from WMI could be a value. But in reality there is none, if you want a Larada then this is the cheapest option to try one (1799USD + Shipping). 

If the question is, can I get a better value for a *guitar*, then the answer is unequivocally yes.

Now if it's, can I get a *Larada *from someone else at a considerable value, then no. There's just no alternative depending on what your goal is and why you want a Larada.

Because you can find an Ormsby Hype 6/7/8 from WMI and those all feature 2ish" Multiscale Fretboards. So if the need is functional and you just want a Multiscale, then there's a far more economical choice out there, especially buying used. But chances are if you're interested in the Abasi, you wouldn't buy a Prestige in it's place. And honestly 8/10 times I can say with confidence that the Prestige would outpace any WMI made instrument.


----------



## jephjacques

cip 123 said:


> As for the finish pricing, I'm no paint expert but the gloss may (and probably does) take longer to reach its final product than the satin, couple that with the fact that although they may be fairly boring colours they may be custom colours for Abasi, I don't know what other brand being built in WMI will be using those colours. If it takes more time, it costs more money.



It definitely takes more time. You're putting more coats of paint down, there's more curing and sanding and buffing involved. Gibson, PRS, Fender, Suhr, lots of other builders do or have done satin guitars that cost significantly less than their full gloss counterparts. IIRC the Fender "Highway" series guitars were like $200 cheaper than the normal American Standard guitars of the time, which is even more drastic when you're talking about $600 versus $800 instead of $1800 vs $2000. And then there's Aristides, who forgo the paint process entirely for their Raw series guitars, which are something like 300 euros cheaper than even their satin finish models.


----------



## HellaSickTight

So uh.....


----------



## jephjacques

HellaSickTight said:


> So uh.....



yessss


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Ok so, I don't want to derail this thread, but its come up countless times in comparison and I really don't understand why Strandberg has become the whipping post for discussions of overpriced import guitars. I've owned a number, 7 this year alone, amd while I have never been floored by any of them, they all felt well built, played nicely, and has no issues to speak of.

What is the main complaint against them? I ask for a better frame of reference.


----------



## Vyn

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Ok so, I don't want to derail this thread, but its come up countless times in comparison and I really don't understand why Strandberg has become the whipping post for discussions of overpriced import guitars. I've owned a number, 7 this year alone, amd while I have never been floored by any of them, they all felt well built, played nicely, and has no issues to speak of.
> 
> What is the main complaint against them? I ask for a better frame of reference.



The main complaint is that for the same money NEW you can get a better instrument. The only logical reason to buy one is either you're a fan of the brand or you really, really need to have the Endura neck as a feature. Because other than that, there's no reason to buy one.


----------



## Dayn

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Ok so, I don't want to derail this thread, but its come up countless times in comparison and I really don't understand why Strandberg has become the whipping post for discussions of overpriced import guitars. I've owned a number, 7 this year alone, amd while I have never been floored by any of them, they all felt well built, played nicely, and has no issues to speak of.
> 
> What is the main complaint against them? I ask for a better frame of reference.


My Strandberg is also great. But you definitely pay a premium for its specs. For the multiscale tremolo at least, there was simply no other option in existence at that price point for me.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Dayn said:


> My Strandberg is also great. But you definitely pay a premium for its specs. For the multiscale tremolo at least, there was simply no other option in existence at that price point for me.


That’s why I went with Strandberg at the time, it was quite literally the only multiscale trem I could find, I feel like I could have also gone with Skervesen but I feel like that’d be over the $2,500 mark.


----------



## bzhang9

tosin is doing this for one reason, to make money. every guitar puts a few hundo in his pocket I'd guess. so of course its gonna be more expensive than the average WMI guitar.


----------



## Hollowway

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I've owned a number, 7 this year alone, amd while I have never been floored by any of them...
> 
> What is the main complaint against them? I ask for a better frame of reference.



I think you just answered your own question. 
You had 7 (!) of them that all were meh enough to warrant selling to someone else.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

+1 to @Hollowway 

I can say as someone who has gone through a crap ton of gear. I went through that with Kiesel. Was excited about the deals and bang for buck and kept ordering thinking eventually one would stick. Never happened


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@TheInvisibleHand Some view Indonesian Strandbergs as overpriced for the build quality.

Mine were pristine, but judging from owner testimonials on SSO there seems to be variability in fret job and finish quality as well as complaints about their trem system.

Don’t shoot the messenger...



HellaSickTight said:


> So uh.....



For me it’s Spartan time between 2-4PM today.


----------



## bassisace

Do Gator GTRSTD6 guitar stands work well with the Abasi or the Strandberg body?


----------



## Jonathan20022

Anyone know if these Legion Laradas come with a case? I saw Ola's review and he said it came with it but the site doesn't mention a case at all.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Jonathan20022 said:


> Anyone know if these Legion Laradas come with a case? I saw Ola's review and he said it came with it but the site doesn't mention a case at all.


I feel like I read somewhere that they come with a hard case!


----------



## Lastronaut

I think the Facebook post announcing the legion models were available said they come with a case. 

Did anyone who bought one get a email saying it shipped? I thought they were supposed to ship today but I never got an email.


----------



## Jonathan20022

HellaSickTight said:


> I feel like I read somewhere that they come with a hard case!



Awesome, good to hear. Did yours arrive?



Lastronaut said:


> I think the Facebook post announcing the legion models were available said they come with a case.
> 
> Did anyone who bought one get a email saying it shipped? I thought they were supposed to ship today but I never got an email.



I got a shipping notification earlier today, should be here next week. Got the UPS email message a few hours later.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Jonathan20022 said:


> Awesome, good to hear. Did yours arrive?
> 
> 
> 
> I got a shipping notification earlier today, should be here next week. Got the UPS email message a few hours later.


Nope it said by 9pm tonight, but still doesn’t say it’s been picked up by UPS so I’m not holding my breath. We shall see! I do live down the street from the Abasi office so it’s still possible!


----------



## gunshow86de

HellaSickTight said:


> I do live down the street from the Abasi office so it’s still possible!



This would be me (if I was you), at Abasi HQ 5 minutes after ordering.


----------



## jephjacques

Canada customs is holding my guitar while they try to decide if they believe me that it's a replacement and therefore I shouldn't have to pay import duties on it twice, hurrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## Lastronaut

jephjacques said:


> Canada customs is holding my guitar while they try to decide if they believe me that it's a replacement and therefore I shouldn't have to pay import duties on it twice, hurrrrrrrrrrr



As if your situation wasn't frustrating enough already lol. Leave it to customs. Hopefully the replacement is worth the wait.


----------



## StevenC

Jonathan20022 said:


> Anyone know if these Legion Laradas come with a case? I saw Ola's review and he said it came with it but the site doesn't mention a case at all.


I think they also posted a week or two ago that all guitars would come in a hardcase from then on.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Looks like the guitar’s gonna take a couple more days to get here, UPS basically sent a delivery window notification once the label was created, but the package still hasn’t been picked up and ingested into the UPS system. I hope it gets picked up today or they let me come pick it up at the office, but I doubt they’ll let me do that.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Ended up cancelling my legion run. I am going to wait for a master or J 8.

Anyone know the next run? Have they hinted at it?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Ended up cancelling my legion run. I am going to wait for a master or J 8.
> 
> Anyone know the next run? Have they hinted at it?



See the FAQ section of their website.

The following are estimates and are subject to change:

Master Series Larada 8: December

Larada Spartan 6: November

J Larada 7: November

Space T: November


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Rip


----------



## bassisace

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Rip



What? 

Anyhow I've heard that Japanese 8 strings won't be available until next year.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Ended up cancelling my legion run. I am going to wait for a master or J 8.
> 
> Anyone know the next run? Have they hinted at it?



Cancelled my 7 as well. Figured if I am already spending 2k on something like this, may as well save a bit more and buy the real deal with the features that make it worth it.


----------



## HellaSickTight

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Cancelled my 7 as well. Figured if I am already spending 2k on something like this, may as well save a bit more and buy the real deal with the features that make it worth it.


Y’all missin’ out on that lit af case! WOOOOIEEEEE https://www.instagram.com/p/CGbH9YZJCFq/?igshid=138ypncjyci83


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HellaSickTight said:


> Y’all missin’ out on that lit af case! WOOOOIEEEEE https://www.instagram.com/p/CGbH9YZJCFq/?igshid=138ypncjyci83



Shrug I’ll survive. I like mono bags more anyway


----------



## HellaSickTight

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Shrug I’ll survive. I like mono bags more anyway


I’ll be cuddling my case for comfort in December when you have an asymmetrical neck


----------



## Jonathan20022

I don't get the fuss over the neck personally, it doesn't work for me. My buddy got his Thorn neck designed with the same concept, thicker on the high string side and such.

I've always loved the opposite which the original JP's had (thicker on the bass side, thinner on the treble side). But a neck profile is a preference from player to player, and a pretty major one to boot. I wouldn't consider getting the neck profile as a *feature *unless I knew it personally worked for me as a player.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Jonathan20022 said:


> I don't get the fuss over the neck personally, it doesn't work for me. My buddy got his Thorn neck designed with the same concept, thicker on the high string side and such.
> 
> I've always loved the opposite which the original JP's had (thicker on the bass side, thinner on the treble side). But a neck profile is a preference from player to player, and a pretty major one to boot. I wouldn't consider getting the neck profile as a *feature *unless I knew it personally worked for me as a player.


I really love my Strandberg endureneck which is basically both at the same time. But I’m not super tripping that the legions don’t have an asymmetrical neck, it seems like a fun and unique feature, but Aristides and most other leading brands don’t do asymmetrical neck profiles and they still play great to me!


----------



## StevenC

Jonathan20022 said:


> I don't get the fuss over the neck personally, it doesn't work for me. My buddy got his Thorn neck designed with the same concept, thicker on the high string side and such.
> 
> I've always loved the opposite which the original JP's had (thicker on the bass side, thinner on the treble side). But a neck profile is a preference from player to player, and a pretty major one to boot. I wouldn't consider getting the neck profile as a *feature *unless I knew it personally worked for me as a player.


Eh, I guess I agree with you to an extent. But on the other hand sometimes I want to play a guitar with a thick neck, sometimes I want the paper thin wizard and sometimes I grab my Strandberg. 

All just different flavours that make my play different things in different ways. Though I know some people have serious issues with certain neck profiles that I don't.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HellaSickTight said:


> I really love my Strandberg endureneck which is basically both at the same time. But I’m not super tripping that the legions don’t have an asymmetrical neck, it seems like a fun and unique feature, but Aristides and most other leading brands don’t do asymmetrical neck profiles and they still play great to me!


My main is an 080 and the neck is way too comfortable for my own good. Sometimes I’ll pick it up to just jam and then end up playing for an hour or two


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Another one of my hangups with the Legion was that I move gear fast. I would be dropping 2k on an import larada that will then sell for 1800 (At maximum). Not worth throwing away 200 bucks just to try a guitar for me when I can wait, save up more cash, and get a master series. The master series being as limited as it is would sell for what I paid for it.

Take it from someone who is a recovering FOMO impulse buyer. It is worth it to wait and buy used. We all know this market will be flooded in a month's time. For the same price you can buy a RG5328 or 2/3 of a raw Aristides. 

Also don't pay inflated prices for master series or J's. If these prices inflate, take a deep breath and relax. It's just wood dude.

That was more for me then you guys. Sorry


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

@HungryGuitarStudent , hows the spartan??


----------



## HellaSickTight

View attachment 86120


----------



## ikarus

Where is the legion made?


----------



## cip 123

ikarus said:


> Where is the legion made?


Korea


----------



## HellaSickTight

Darlaaa beginning her lengthy QC inspection process


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@HellaSickTight : how is the headstock paint job, notably the paint and wood boundary?

Cute cat


----------



## HellaSickTight

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @HellaSickTight : how is the headstock paint job, notably the paint and wood boundary?
> 
> Cute cat


I’d say better than the hero picture on the website, I was only able to find one small imperfection at the top of the headstock. Darlaaa is super happy!


----------



## bassisace

HellaSickTight said:


> I’d say better than the hero picture on the website, I was only able to find one small imperfection at the top of the headstock. Darlaaa is super happy!



Woah, maybe the pic is misleading but that looks like a big scratch. The paint looks like it’s bleeding a bit, but maybe it’s my eyes lol

I don’t wanna be a downer on your NGD. Thanks for sharing those pics and have fun with your new Legion!!


----------



## HellaSickTight

bassisace said:


> Woah, maybe the pic is misleading but that looks like a big scratch. The paint looks like it’s bleeding a bit, but maybe it’s my eyes lol
> 
> I don’t wanna be a downer on your NGD. Thanks for sharing those pics and have fun with your new Legion!!


Hey so I deleted the picture because I’m an idiot, and it was a smudge I was able to wipe off with my finger, and I don’t want a misleading pic to get out. Here’s an updated shot, where you can see just a bit of tape masking blemishes that are super small along the top but no black smudge. You’re not being a bummer at all I’m beyond stoked on this instrument and I find QC and production runs super fascinating, and I want to share with the community so people know what they’re getting. I’d say the QC on this is better than my Strandberg.


----------



## bassisace

HellaSickTight said:


> Hey so I deleted the picture because I’m an idiot, and it was a smudge I was able to wipe off with my finger, and I don’t want a misleading pic to get out. Here’s an updated shot, where you can see just a bit of tape masking blemishes that are super small along the top but no black smudge. You’re not being a bummer at all I’m beyond stoked on this instrument and I find QC and production runs super fascinating, and I want to share with the community so people know what they’re getting. I’d say the QC on this is better than my Strandberg.



Oh that seems way less than the first pic.

I would still email them a pic of the finish imperfection. It’ll help them getting QC feedback. You might get compensation as this devalues your guitar.

Don’t wanna be a downer but you rarely see these types of errors on 900$ Solar guitars, Ibanez or many other brands. It’s not too much to demand that a 2000$ instrument be mint.

Abasi seem to have QC problems across all their runs based on all the user feedback I’ve seen here and from friends who ordered one.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

bassisace said:


> Oh that seems way less than the first pic.
> 
> I would still email them a pic of the finish imperfection. It’ll help them getting QC feedback. You might get compensation as this devalues your guitar.
> 
> Don’t wanna be a downer but you rarely see these types of errors on 900$ Solar guitars, Ibanez or many other brands. It’s not too much to demand that a 2000$ instrument be mint.
> 
> Abasi seem to have QC problems across all their runs based on all the user feedback I’ve seen here and from friends who ordered one.


Plus one to this. If you don’t talk they won’t get better.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

bassisace said:


> Don’t wanna be a downer but you rarely see these types of errors on 900$ Solar guitars, Ibanez or many other brands. It’s not too much to demand that a 2000$ instrument be mint.



Agreed, and when you do see them on a Solar, it knocks a few hundred bucks off the price.


----------



## bassisace

Chris Bowsman said:


> Agreed, and when you do see them on a Solar, it knocks a few hundred bucks off the price.



Exactly. And they catch it at QC level and sell it as a B stock, so the buyer knows up front what he’s paying for instead of having a bad surprise.

I hope Abasi gets things sorted out, but at this point I wouldn’t order one, especially a 3000$ Master Series or Japanese one.


----------



## HellaSickTight

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Plus one to this. If you don’t talk they won’t get better.


Okay! Thanks for the advice y’all! I’ve sent them a few pictures!


----------



## bassisace

Enjoy your new guitar!! From the preview videos I saw it seems like Legions sound great! Best of luck for getting compensation.


----------



## HellaSickTight

bassisace said:


> Enjoy your new guitar, from the preview videos I was it seems like Legions sound great! Best of luck for getting compensation.


Thank you! I’m SO HAPPY! It’s crazy I had an RG8 with Abasi pickups and it didn’t even get close to how good this Legion sounds. I tested it on the DSP Cory Wong plug-in first with the split-coil positions and it blew me away! The string spacing makes it incredibly easy to play, I’ve been saying it feels the most like 6-string out of any 8 I’ve ever played!


----------



## praXis001

I'm glad to hear how well you like the sound of it HellaSickTight. I'm so close to pulling the trigger on the overcast 7, but the $2k price seems a bit steep, but after hearing your remarks about how good it sounds, oh man... Please keep us in the loop with how responsive support is. I'm curious to hear how well they handle the issue.


----------



## xzacx

I really wanted to want one of these, and tried to talk myself into it, but once I saw that 25.5-27.5 scale length for 7s I just couldn’t justify it. I figured I’d make it my downtuned 7, but I currently use an 11-64 set on a 25.5 scale for G# standard and couldn’t even figure out what gauges I’d need for something similar—I imagine I’d have to get some kind of custom string set. At that point I’m just creating problems I didn’t have to start with, and figured it was best to pass. Still love the design of these though.


----------



## Hollowway

HellaSickTight said:


> The string spacing makes it incredibly easy to play, I’ve been saying it feels the most like 6-string out of any 8 I’ve ever played!



Wait, so is the string spacing not standard? It sounds like you're saying it's a bit tighter than a normal guitar?


----------



## CW7

Hollowway said:


> Wait, so is the string spacing not standard? It sounds like you're saying it's a bit tighter than a normal guitar?


I did a VERY quick measurement with my calipers and my action gauge, comparing my J7 and an Aristides 060 (I don’t have another 7). The J7 is indeed a little tighter, by a handful of mm. I do agree, the 7 plays much more like a 6, and doesn’t feel “big” at all. (My Toone 8 has the same affect ; it feels like a really big 6 as opposed to a massive 8).


----------



## HellaSickTight

Yea the string spacing is closer to that of an Ernie Ball Music Man vs. Ibanez which I feel goes for a wider string spacing.


----------



## Hollowway

Ah, nards. That's probably a deal breaker for me. I don't like narrower string spacing.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Hollowway said:


> Ah, nards. That's probably a deal breaker for me. I don't like narrower string spacing.


Totally respect that! Personally I feel like I enjoy wider string spacing on everything but 8’s. It really makes this guitar more approachable and I find it’s significantly easier to keep myself from getting lost compared to my RG8.


----------



## Mayath321

@HellaSickTight hey glad you're enjoying the guitar. I was wondering if yoh could measure the distance from the body to the strings near the pickups (not the pick up height). I'm really interested in getting one of these but I really prefer guitars where the strings are flush to the body (like a strat) rather than my strandberg where the strings are pretty far away.

Also wondering how the neck dive is on the legions? Wondering if it's better than the other models since it's a different construction?


----------



## Mayath321

Mayath321 said:


> @HellaSickTight hey glad you're enjoying the guitar. I was wondering if yoh could measure the distance from the body to the strings near the pickups (not the pick up height). I'm really interested in getting one of these but I really prefer guitars where the strings are flush to the body (like a strat) rather than my strandberg where the strings are pretty far away.
> 
> Also wondering how the neck dive is on the legions? Wondering if it's better than the other models since it's a different construction?






9/16" on my strandberg. 5/16" on my strat. Doesn't seem like a huge deal, but it makes a big difference to me and how the guitar feels.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Mayath321 said:


> @HellaSickTight hey glad you're enjoying the guitar. I was wondering if yoh could measure the distance from the body to the strings near the pickups (not the pick up height). I'm really interested in getting one of these but I really prefer guitars where the strings are flush to the body (like a strat) rather than my strandberg where the strings are pretty far away.
> 
> Also wondering how the neck dive is on the legions? Wondering if it's better than the other models since it's a different construction?


Hi! I remember you asking this earlier so let me know if I can take any better pictures for you as I feel like I know exactly what you're talking about. Growing up I hated LPs and preferred SGs because I could anchor my palm or wrist on the guitar and chug much easier because the strings were closer to the body and the body didn't arch away from my hand. I took some shots of my Strandberg Original vs. my Larada for ya with the help of my other guitar tech Merle. The Strandberg is the blue one, and the Legion is the blue one


----------



## Mayath321

HellaSickTight said:


> Hi! I remember you asking this earlier so let me know if I can take any better pictures for you as I feel like I know exactly what you're talking about. Growing up I hated LPs and preferred SGs because I could anchor my palm or wrist on the guitar and chug much easier because the strings were closer to the body and the body didn't arch away from my hand. I took some shots of my Strandberg Original vs. my Larada for ya with the help of my other guitar tech Merle. The Strandberg is the blue one, and the Legion is the blue one
> View attachment 86147



Thank you so much! I'm glad you understand what I mean in regards to the right hand position. It's probably poor technique on my part, but I prefer when the strings are closer. From looking at your photos it looks like the larada is even further from the body than the strandberg. Is this correct? I'm having a little trouble reading your tape measurer. Are those centimeters on the right hand side?


----------



## HellaSickTight

Mayath321 said:


> Thank you so much! I'm glad you understand what I mean in regards to the right hand position. It's probably poor technique on my part, but I prefer when the strings are closer. From looking at your photos it looks like the larada is even further from the body than the strandberg. Is this correct? I'm having a little trouble reading your tape measurer. Are those centimeters on the right hand side?


I think they're centimeters, because I have a 5mm pick and it's way thinner than this. It looks like my Strandberg is setup 0.1cm lower coming in at 1.2cm where as the Larada is at 1.3cm from the majority of zooming into my pics. Keep in mind I haven't given the larada a setup yet and could probably drop them a cm or two with the bridge height adjustment. Lots of guitars come set-up quite high. I'd say this guitar feels on par with but not closer than the Strandberg as far as string distance from the body goes in relation to your right hand.

Also as expected there is more neck dive than the Strandberg but it’s not bad at all, my RG8 would straight up drop haha


----------



## Sebshred

Hey guys, 

Anyone know if the Master 8 series Laradas have the same Oviform neck as the J Laradas?


----------



## CW7

Sebshred said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> Anyone know if the Master 8 series Laradas have the same Oviform neck as the J Laradas?


From what i understand, The previous ones do not , BUT- I’ve heard rumors the next batch of Master Series may indeed have the oval neck. (That’s why on last batch I passed on the Master and snagged a J7 instead. I’d already owned one of the Js and that neck profile, my opinion, is one of the Laradas strong points).


----------



## asopala

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> My main is an 080 and the neck is way too comfortable for my own good. Sometimes I’ll pick it up to just jam and then end up playing for an hour or two



The neck on those is just a standard D shape, right? I remember trying one and being amazed how much like my Schecters (SLS carve) the neck was. I've been sold on that neck shape/thickness a long time ago.


----------



## CW7

asopala said:


> The neck on those is just a standard D shape, right? I remember trying one and being amazed how much like my Schecters (SLS carve) the neck was. I've been sold on that neck shape/thickness a long time ago.


It’s a C shape- 19-20mm . Crazy comfy .


----------



## Frostbite

I'm waiting to hear more about the Legion's but if they turn out good I'm 100% buying a blue sage 7 string. Ever since I got my first RGD that type of body carve is such a huge plus for me comfort wise


----------



## Lastronaut

Frostbite said:


> I'm waiting to hear more about the Legion's but if they turn out good I'm 100% buying a blue sage 7 string. Ever since I got my first RGD that type of body carve is such a huge pl




I've got a blue sage 7 on the way. I'll report back when I get a chance to put it through its paces. Fingers crossed it'll be a good.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Bummed I cancelled my order but at the same time happy because I ended up getting a Mint UV777BK and still had money leftover.


----------



## Lastronaut

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Bummed I cancelled my order but at the same time happy because I ended up getting a Mint UV777BK and still had money leftover.



For me it was definitely hard to justify spending 2k on a guitar made in WMI. Especially when you factor in the fact that Abasi seems to have had some QC issues. If your willing to look at the used market 2k goes a long way in my opinion.....but in the end I hopped on board the hype train.....I really hope once I get the guitar in my hands I feel slightly justified in spending that money. Either way I'm excited.


----------



## asopala

CW7 said:


> It’s a C shape- 19-20mm . Crazy comfy .



Just realized that's actually the thickness and shape on Schecters, not D. Good to know.


----------



## Jonathan20022

@HellaSickTight did the guitar come in Abasi branded packaging? Like the cardboard and all that, or was it just standard cardboard with just their label on it?


----------



## HellaSickTight

Jonathan20022 said:


> @HellaSickTight did the guitar come in Abasi branded packaging? Like the cardboard and all that, or was it just standard cardboard with just their label on it?


It’s branded! Got a big logo on it!


----------



## Jonathan20022

HellaSickTight said:


> It’s branded! Got a big logo on it!



Ah damn 

UPS really isn't flexible with it's options for delivery.


----------



## jephjacques

cool cool cool cool cOoL


----------



## BodyNoOrgans

Has anyone just had their order sitting on 'Shipment Ready for UPS'? It says the estimated delivery date is Thursday (10/22), but it hasn't been updated since last Thursday.


----------



## Lastronaut

BodyNoOrgans said:


> Has anyone just had their order sitting on 'Shipment Ready for UPS'? It says the estimated delivery date is Thursday (10/22), but it hasn't been updated since last Thursday.




Mine is the same. I wonder what the deal is?


----------



## HellaSickTight

BodyNoOrgans said:


> Has anyone just had their order sitting on 'Shipment Ready for UPS'? It says the estimated delivery date is Thursday (10/22), but it hasn't been updated since last Thursday.


Yea that happened to me, basically the creation of the UPS labels they made entered the system and alerted a bunch of people that they would deliver last Thursday, then once my guitar actually got scanned in the system the delivery window was updated. I sent Ivan an email the 2nd day and he responded thanking me for my patience as they apparently had a lot of guitars to ship. I hope yours gets figured out soon!


----------



## BodyNoOrgans

HellaSickTight said:


> Yea that happened to me, basically the creation of the UPS labels they made entered the system and alerted a bunch of people that they would deliver last Thursday, then once my guitar actually got scanned in the system the delivery window was updated. I sent Ivan an email the 2nd day and he responded thanking me for my patience as they apparently had a lot of guitars to ship. I hope yours gets figured out soon!



Yeah, I figured they're probably the busiest they've ever been, so that's understandable. Hopefully it gets here by the end of the week, but I'm not sweating it.


----------



## Lastronaut

HellaSickTight said:


> Yea that happened to me, basically the creation of the UPS labels they made entered the system and alerted a bunch of people that they would deliver last Thursday, then once my guitar actually got scanned in the system the delivery window was updated. I sent Ivan an email the 2nd day and he responded thanking me for my patience as they apparently had a lot of guitars to ship. I hope yours gets figured out soon!



Figured this was the case. Hopefully its sooner than later. Starting to get anxious haha.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Y’all will both wake up some morning and it will have gone through like 4 checkpoints and be super close. Mine departed at 11pm, did most of its traveling overnight, and was on the truck for delivery by 6am when I checked my tracking. (But I live in LA, so that’s why I think I got mine so quickly)


----------



## Lastronaut

HellaSickTight said:


> Y’all will both wake up some morning and it will have gone through like 4 checkpoints and be super close. Mine departed at 11pm, did most of its traveling overnight, and was on the truck for delivery by 6am when I checked my tracking. (But I live in LA, so that’s why I think I got mine so quickly)



Did you happen to hear anything back about your headstock paint issue?

Also how are you liking it so far?


----------



## HellaSickTight

Lastronaut said:


> Did you happen to hear anything back about your headstock paint issue?
> 
> Also how are you liking it so far?


I haven’t heard back yet I think they’re slammed but I’m not stressing. So far I’m absolutely in love! I think this is the perfect instrument for what I was looking for in this price range. And it just sounds so goddamn good! I’ve tried it through every Neural Plugin and it’s incredibly dynamic! I’m glad I don’t have any issues with the neck or frets or any other hardware! I’d say the guitar is _slightly_ heavier than I was anticipating because of the basswood. The laradas I played the most at NAMM I remember being shockingly light and maybe even a bit thinner? I was mostly playing with that carbon quilt one. It also just feels great to support Tosin and everything he’s doing to advance the design of modern guitars!


----------



## jephjacques

All the courier services have been slammed all year thanks to covid, Abasi is probably just waiting on a truck to come pick up their stuff. Just heard from UPS and my guitar is finally gonna be released by customs today. With luck I'll have it only a week later than I was supposed to


----------



## praXis001

Well, I finally pulled the trigger on the Overcast 7 string. I just got myself too excited. I think I may have gotten the last one as its now showing sold out just after I finalized the purchase! So excited! I'll report back here when it arrives and let you all know what I think.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Cancelled my Sage Legion order; it might pop up on their website. Jump on it guys 

@jephjacques Are you near Montreal? Good luck with the shipment.


----------



## praXis001

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Cancelled my Sage Legion order; it might pop up on their website. Jump on it guys
> 
> @jephjacques Are you near Montreal? Good luck with the shipment.




Hrmmm....Maybe I'd rather have sage. haha. Any reason for the cancellation?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Cancelled my Sage Legion order; it might pop up on their website. Jump on it guys
> 
> @jephjacques Are you near Montreal? Good luck with the shipment.


 7 or 8?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> 7 or 8?



7


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> 7



Temptation avoided. Thank you


----------



## praXis001

I emailed Abasi to see if they could switch my order to your cancelled blue sage one. Will see what they say, hoping they can make it happen.


----------



## dh848

New toy on my doorstep today! Setup was great out of the box. Sounds killer. Well done Tosin and team


----------



## bassisace

dh848 said:


> New toy on my doorstep today! Setup was great out of the box. Sounds killer. Well done Tosin and team



It looks great! Congratulations! If you don’t mind, could you take a pic of the headstock paint job?


----------



## Vroth88

dh848 said:


> New toy on my doorstep today! Setup was great out of the box. Sounds killer. Well done Tosin and team



Along the headstock paint job, can you also show us some other close-ups, the bolt-on for example

Is the action and fretwork good? No issues with the quality at all?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

really hoping some review pops up in the near future


----------



## jephjacques

Mine's finally on a truck, should be delivered tomorrow. I'll probably do a proper NGD for this one.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

So sorry if this is someone here but what is with the Abasi scalping on The Axe Exchange?

J larada Chartreuse 7 for 4k? That is a 1k premium wtf.

Magic the Gathering second hand market all over again.
EDIT: Probably should just take this comment out mods. Apparrently all I am doing is price bitching. Realistically just want an actual conversation on this. Power to the people who can make it work


----------



## AmoryDrive

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> So sorry if this is someone here but what is with the Abasi scalping on The Axe Exchange?
> 
> J larada Chartreuse 7 for 4k? That is a 1k premium wtf.
> 
> Magic the Gathering second hand market all over again.
> EDIT: Probably should just take this comment out mods. Apparrently all I am doing is price bitching. Realistically just want an actual conversation on this. Power to the people who can make it work


Saw that.... There's a temptation to sell my NAMM Chartruese J8 and buy two Legions if that actually moves at that. Then again I'm not insane haha


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

AmoryDrive said:


> Saw that.... There's a temptation to sell my NAMM Chartruese J8 and buy two Legions if that actually moves at that. Then again I'm not insane haha


Yeah don’t do that. I just am afraid this will become the shoe market


----------



## AmoryDrive

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Yeah don’t do that. I just am afraid this will become the shoe market


The limited runs kinda push that mentality unfortunately, was hoping the Legion series would actually correct the market a bit for the J/US Laradas. Probably won't see that until Legions pop up on the secondhand market though


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

AmoryDrive said:


> The limited runs kinda push that mentality unfortunately, was hoping the Legion series would actually correct the market a bit for the J/US Laradas. Probably won't see that until Legions pop up on the secondhand market though


In time! Hopefully. If it doesn’t, expect sneaker heads to jump on the larada runs if they can make a profit.

Part of me feels like that’s why the initial runs ran out so fast but I was being oaranoid


----------



## AmoryDrive

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> In time! Hopefully. If it doesn’t, expect sneaker heads to jump on the larada runs if they can make a profit.
> 
> Part of me feels like that’s why the initial runs ran out so fast but I was being oaranoid


Gotta get that early adopter clout!

He says, buying one at the NAMM show as soon as he could hahaha


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

AmoryDrive said:


> Gotta get that early adopter clout!
> 
> He says, buying one at the NAMM show as soon as he could hahaha



what’s funny is that the legions should probably go for lower used but with the limited number in certain colors, it’s possible they won’t


----------



## Jonathan20022

Supply and demand dictate price, nothing more. There's no smoke and mirrors, I was always able to sell my Aristides for exactly what I put into them early on because I purchased my first one in 2014/2015.

By 2018 they saturated the market and their prices dropped accordingly, now on average you will lose several hundred dollars from your purchase price. People have no incentive to list low when they are one of the few or only options to purchase a specific product.

There will always be a customer willing to pay a premium, if that premium is ridiculous, then the seller is filtering their potential sales hard. Making it very unlikely it sells, price drops proceed until the product moves.

There's nothing complicated about this, it will always happen regardless of the product as long as there's hype and consumer demand/


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> So sorry if this is someone here but what is with the Abasi scalping on The Axe Exchange?
> 
> J larada Chartreuse 7 for 4k? That is a 1k premium wtf.
> 
> Magic the Gathering second hand market all over again.
> EDIT: Probably should just take this comment out mods. Apparrently all I am doing is price bitching. Realistically just want an actual conversation on this. Power to the people who can make it work




What really gets my goat isn't so much that he's scalping them but that he somehow managed to buy 2 from a single batch? I mean jesus, it was a bloodbath just to try to snag one, how the hell did he manage 2?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

TheInvisibleHand said:


> What really gets my goat isn't so much that he's scalping them but that he somehow managed to buy 2 from a single batch? I mean jesus, it was a bloodbath just to try to snag one, how the hell did he manage 2?



I figured scalping would happen whenever they started the drop structure.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Guess I’m more tempted to get a master series in December since they hold their value. My main fear was getting one, not digging it and selling it for less


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> What really gets my goat isn't so much that he's scalping them but that he somehow managed to buy 2 from a single batch? I mean jesus, it was a bloodbath just to try to snag one, how the hell did he manage 2?


I think it’s partly luck of the draw- it was definitely not AS bad this last batch. Case in point, I had the black J in the cart. Ready to check out. ChNged my mind and closed the browser. Then reopened and tried to buy the pink one. Gone. Black one . Still there and snagged it. So there was at least a few minutes (as opposed to seconds) you could get one if you happen to be on the page when they popped up.

I understand it’s supply/damn, but the marking them up is in poor taste (in my opinion). I’ve discussed parting with mine and told both buyers I absolutely only wanted at most what I paid . (I’m still on the fence as to keeping it. I really want an 8, and got a 7 because it’s what was in stock).


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> I think it’s partly luck of the draw- it was definitely not AS bad this last batch. Case in point, I had the black J in the cart. Ready to check out. ChNged my mind and closed the browser. Then reopened and tried to buy the pink one. Gone. Black one . Still there and snagged it. So there was at least a few minutes (as opposed to seconds) you could get one if you happen to be on the page when they popped up.
> 
> I understand it’s supply/damn, but the marking them up is in poor taste (in my opinion). I’ve discussed parting with mine and told both buyers I absolutely only wanted at most what I paid . (I’m still on the fence as to keeping it. I really want an 8, and got a 7 because it’s what was in stock).



That said, what do you think of the 7 so far?


----------



## spudmunkey

CW7 said:


> I think it’s partly luck of the draw- it was definitely not AS bad this last batch. Case in point, I had the black J in the cart. Ready to check out. ChNged my mind and closed the browser. Then reopened and tried to buy the pink one. Gone. Black one . Still there and snagged it. So there was at least a few minutes (as opposed to seconds) you could get one if you happen to be on the page when they popped up.
> 
> I understand it’s supply/damn, but the marking them up is in poor taste (in my opinion). I’ve discussed parting with mine and told both buyers I absolutely only wanted at most what I paid . (I’m still on the fence as to keeping it. I really want an 8, and got a 7 because it’s what was in stock).



This is becoming the new norm for pretty much ANYTHING with release hype. Take a look at sneaker releases, and the two most recent Nvidia graphics card releases (3080 and 3090). Sold out in seconds, with huge retailer websites, that can handle black friday traffic, buckling under the pressure.


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> That said, what do you think of the 7 so far?


So- I’ll try and be objective here (which is almost impossible due to the awareness of said hype and the frenzy surrounding the random drops of new inventory. 

also- let me preface ; I owned one of these already, BEFORE most of the insanity ensued and they raised prices. I had a chalk J Larada 7 I got for around 2k. It was very solid, action was slammed and I loved how light it was. I sold it because as soon as people figured out I had it I had multiple PMs offering me full retail (at the time around 2400). I couldn’t say no to the cash and let it go. 

Fast forward to now, when the last batch dropped I decided I WAS NOT going to spend the time slot refreshing and be pissed off (which happened the prior two times). I happened to be on my phone when the drop happened and Lo and behold , there were a few to buy. After deleting my cart and then deciding, “screw it and let’s see how they are ...” I went back and got the black J with white pickups. 

is it “worth” 3300.00? Tough call. I mean , it is as far as what people will pay for it. But if I look at my other guitars in the 3-3500 range, I.e. Anderson, Aristides, Suhr, Etc., it doesn’t strike me as a build I would say “wow, this is definitely 3k of guitar!” About.

BUT- there’s a reason I still have it. I’ve not put it down and have been jamming on it my studio on an almost daily basis. I think it’s the weight (it’s headless light), the oval neck profile (one of my FAVORITE things about it), and the super flat radius with giant frets (20” IIRC). It’s got me practicing again and makes me want play every day, and that’s definitely “worth” something. 

It does neck dive (This design screams “I want to be headless” imo). But I play this one mostly in left leg/classical type position (how this guitar was designed to be, if I had to guess. Right leg seems like an afterthought). 

So- I do really want an 8, so eventually I’ll probably sling it to get a J8 (whenever that opportunity presents itself). But for now I’ve not been able to part with it as it brings SOMETHING unique to the table for my existing lineup of guitars, even if that comes at a price point my gut says is about 30% too much.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

spudmunkey said:


> This is becoming the new norm for pretty much ANYTHING with release hype. Take a look at sneaker releases, and the two most recent Nvidia graphics card releases (3080 and 3090). Sold out in seconds, with huge retailer websites, that can handle black friday traffic, buckling under the pressure.


Sadly dude. I’m in the magic the gathering world and it’s ass. There are products I want to play with my friends but you have these sneaker heads swooping in and buying them up then raising the prices. 


Blows man.


----------



## Meh

There aren’t enough pictures of people getting theirs in this thread. Mine came in today and I couldn’t be more happier.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Man, those are really great looking guitars.


----------



## Dayn

That's hot. Now I want one to tune to drop E, and to turn my RG2228 into an F# standard machine...


----------



## Lastronaut

Meh said:


> There aren’t enough pictures of people getting theirs in this thread. Mine came in today and I couldn’t be more happier.
> View attachment 86264
> View attachment 86265
> View attachment 86266




Oh lordy. That's beautiful. Congrats.

I can't even get Mr. Abasi to ship my sage blue 7 to me. Checking the tracking number is about to give me an anxiety attack haha.


----------



## BodyNoOrgans

Looks like mine actually shipped out today -- should be here by Tuesday!


----------



## Stephan

Can anyone compare this particular model to a 080s(r) from Aristides?


----------



## CW7

Stephan said:


> Can anyone compare this particular model to a 080s(r) from Aristides?



that’s not a fair fight , in my opinion. The Aristides is pretty much the epitome of top end craftsmanship and attention to detail. The Abasis have already had their fair share of QC issues (albeit mostly small ones, but still). You’d be hard pressed to find a single instance of an Aristides QC issue ; they don’t really exist. The ONLY thing I’d say in the Larada favor is the weight ; Aristides 080SRs are not light . BUT- that will
Be rectified with the new Aristides headless H/08. The other thing in favor of the Legion specifically is price of course. But this is a fine example of “you get what you pay for”. Aristides is cream of the crop, high end, flawless execution. Abasi are still working out the kinks, it seems.


----------



## jephjacques

Apples and oranges. One is an all-wood guitar with an extended upper bout and set neck, the other is one-piece all-composite with different pickups (at least, I've never seen an 080s with Fishmans). Very different in terms of feel. Build quality on the Aristides is probably going to be better than the Abasi, but that's not meant as a criticism of them- Aristides puts out just RIDICULOUSLY well-made guitars. I think the 080r has an extra half-inch on the fan?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> Apples and oranges. One is an all-wood guitar with an extended upper bout and set neck, the other is one-piece all-composite with different pickups (at least, I've never seen an 080s with Fishmans). Very different in terms of feel. Build quality on the Aristides is probably going to be better than the Abasi, but that's not meant as a criticism of them- Aristides puts out just RIDICULOUSLY well-made guitars. I think the 080r has an extra half-inch on the fan?



26-28 yes. 

And man this pretty much settles it. Not getting one. Jeph. When you get your J can you compare it to Aristides? Unless you were. Then nvm


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah, once mine gets here I'll try to do a proper comparison. I don't have the 080s anymore but I remember it fondly and I've still got an 080.


----------



## CW7

jephjacques said:


> Apples and oranges. One is an all-wood guitar with an extended upper bout and set neck, the other is one-piece all-composite with different pickups (at least, I've never seen an 080s with Fishmans). Very different in terms of feel. Build quality on the Aristides is probably going to be better than the Abasi, but that's not meant as a criticism of them- Aristides puts out just RIDICULOUSLY well-made guitars. I think the 080r has an extra half-inch on the fan?


The new H/0s have fishmans as an option. While the fan is ever so slightly bigger, they still feel similar in my opinion (I’ve owned both, own a J, and have two H/0s on order as we speak). Aristides is just another level. If you HAVE to have the Abasi shape, then that’s the way to go- but there it’s really a gamble on what you’re gonna get when you snag one (my J doesn’t have any “issues”, but I could argue for 3300 it better not. That’s Aristides price level and I’ve been through dozens of Aristides and NEVER had a single QC problem to complain about. It’s almost sickening how flawless and consistent they are).


----------



## jyym

The Aristides are 26.5 to 28 and the larada is 25.5 to 27.5.

the Larada has the extra half inch on the fan, not the Aristides.


----------



## CW7

jym said:


> The Aristides are 26.5 to 28 and the larada is 25.5 to 27.5.
> 
> the Larada has the extra half inch on the fan, not the Aristides.


I knew as I was typing that I had it backwards. Thanks for the fix. Not enough coffee this morning.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> Yeah, once mine gets here I'll try to do a proper comparison. I don't have the 080s anymore but I remember it fondly and I've still got an 080.



Hell yeah!


----------



## jyym

Surprising to hear the Aristides is heavier than the Laradas.


----------



## CW7

jym said:


> Surprising to hear the Aristides is heavier than the Laradas.


The 080s is, BUT- the headless will be more in line with how light the Larada is. (I have heard in the 5-5.5lbs range on the H/0s)


----------



## AmoryDrive

jym said:


> Surprising to hear the Aristides is heavier than the Laradas.


Yeah the Legion/J series have basswood bodies that are super light, though the wenge neck compensates for that a bit. The US ones seemed a little heavier, those have alder bodies and maple necks. Still pretty dang light all told. Think the only guitar i've played that was lighter was the Strandberg models


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah Aristides generally weigh about the same as a "normal" guitar, so when you've got an 8 string they're gonna feel pretty chonky. And the Larada has a pretty tiny body, even for an 8 string.


----------



## jephjacques

yessssss


----------



## AmoryDrive

jephjacques said:


> yessssss
> View attachment 86282


Things you love to see=it


----------



## StevenC

I haven't played a Larada yet but the 070 I played, while fantastic in other regards, was wider than any guitar I've every played that wasn't hollow.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Any ERG Aristides is going to be SUPER wide, I sold Jeph my 080s for that reason. I love the 6 strings though, and the 7 string for me is where I top off in width body wise.

But I'll point blank make the claim that the Larada is probably more comfortable in the equivalent string config against an Aristides. It's just got every carve and the weight to make it sit super comfortably with less strain on the player, I don't even have to have it in hand to make that comparison


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

All the 8's are now out of stock. Give it a month and we will have some on the used market  Then it is time to pick up some


----------



## jephjacques

Larada is here, it's perfect, sounds amazing, totally rules. 1000x better than the first one they sent me. NGD post soon.


----------



## jyym

Even the pickup issue?


----------



## CW7

Jonathan20022 said:


> Any ERG Aristides is going to be SUPER wide, I sold Jeph my 080s for that reason. I love the 6 strings though, and the 7 string for me is where I top off in width body wise.
> 
> But I'll point blank make the claim that the Larada is probably more comfortable in the equivalent string config against an Aristides. It's just got every carve and the weight to make it sit super comfortably with less strain on the player, I don't even have to have it in hand to make that comparison


 The headless Aristides H/0 solves all the aforementioned "issues". Total game changer imo. Can. not. wait. (I have two on order due end of year)


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> The headless Aristides H/0 solves all the aforementioned "issues". Total game changer imo. Can. not. wait. (I have two on order due end of year)



Turnaround is that fast for those? I better get in an order in.


----------



## Jonathan20022

CW7 said:


> The headless Aristides H/0 solves all the aforementioned "issues". Total game changer imo. Can. not. wait. (I have two on order due end of year)



I like the headless design as well, but they could stand to be smaller. I'd love a headless but have no real purpose for one yet, so I'm going to sit and wait to see what the used market has to offer when people offload theirs.

I wouldn't call it a gamechanger personally, I'm just glad it doesn't have a zero fret which is my biggest gripe with headless design.


----------



## CW7

Jonathan20022 said:


> I like the headless design as well, but they could stand to be smaller. I'd love a headless but have no real purpose for one yet, so I'm going to sit and wait to see what the used market has to offer when people offload theirs.
> 
> I wouldn't call it a gamechanger personally, I'm just glad it doesn't have a zero fret which is my biggest gripe with headless design.


they fixed the few things I didn't like about the 060 (which is still one of my absolute fav 6 strings on the planet). They do look to be the idea size- smaller than the standard 060/060s but big enough to be comfy (I've seen pics of the prototypes in peoples hands for size reference). I always said "if only they made a headless...'. They called me out. lol


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Turnaround is that fast for those? I better get in an order in.


The first batch , yes- especially if you did a RAW (I already have progress pics of my raw 8 in the works). My 6 is a custom finish so that may take a touch longer


----------



## CW7

Jonathan20022 said:


> I like the headless design as well, but they could stand to be smaller. I'd love a headless but have no real purpose for one yet, so I'm going to sit and wait to see what the used market has to offer when people offload theirs.
> 
> I wouldn't call it a gamechanger personally, I'm just glad it doesn't have a zero fret which is my biggest gripe with headless design.


I say "gamechanger" because, for me, there isn't a headless on the market that ticks ALL the boxes. They all lack in some fashion. The Aristides appears to do that, and then some.


----------



## Jonathan20022

CW7 said:


> I say "gamechanger" because, for me, there isn't a headless on the market that ticks ALL the boxes. They all lack in some fashion. The Aristides appears to do that, and then some.



For sure, I'm still a huge fan myself. I consider myself hard to talk down when I have my mind set on a guitar or piece of gear. But for how excited I was about the H/0, I ended up shelving the thought thinking that I can definitely hold back a bit for now on headless gear as a whole.

I did the whole Strandberg thing, and those were all fantastic instruments. I tried one of the Korean Metal 6's almost 2 years ago and ended up returning it over some flaws in the build. But I think if I have to own a single headless I'd definitely go Aristides in the future.

As far as ERG goes, I'd probably go with Abasi if the string spacing is as tight as I've heard in this thread. I've only ever liked a single 8 that I owned to a degree worth keeping the instrument, and it was unfortunately a Kiesel . So if the Legion 7 feels really good, I can see myself springing on the next run of Legions. Hoping for some kind of purple finish from the next few batches!


----------



## HellaSickTight

jephjacques said:


> Larada is here, it's perfect, sounds amazing, totally rules. 1000x better than the first one they sent me. NGD post soon.


YAYYYY! So happy to hear!


----------



## BodyNoOrgans

First 'used' legion 8 looks like it just popped up on Reverb...with a 400 dollar markup


----------



## Jonathan20022

Now that's a 100% scalper 

Not even going to link that garbage, the dude literally opened it and took a single photo + pasted a blanket description of the guitar.

Is 315 even worth the profit trying to flip a guitar without playing it and enjoying? I'm pretty sure you lose almost 100% of that to selling fees in the first place.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

BodyNoOrgans said:


> First 'used' legion 8 looks like it just popped up on Reverb...with a 400 dollar markup



boooooop what a piece of trash


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I offered him $1800


----------



## SpaceDock

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I offered him $1800



ha! Me too


----------



## HellaSickTight

SpaceDock said:


> ha! Me too


Something tells me in my gut he’s gonna accept my offer of $1,700.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Everyone offer 1000 even


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Let’s consistently do that until he folds and takes it off reverb


----------



## chipflavour

Hey guys, long time lurker here, I got my larada legion yesteday! Making an ngd thread now, but I have to say it's absolutely worth it even though it's a bit expensive for a MIK guitar. 

You're paying a premium for the branding imo, and yeah I feel like it's a bit overhyped, but I like it much more than any other guitar I've tried in my life (to be fair I only played production models).


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Everything about these is such a shit show. It's a shame as the design is cool and the colors are solid.


----------



## narad

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Let’s consistently do that until he folds and takes it off reverb



He'll just change his settings to auto-reject your low-balling. Don't like the price? Move on, and don't act like a child.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

I don't see it anymore on Reverb, so he must have accepted one of your offers?

But yeah, no point in trying to sanction these people. The market will correct them if people just stop paying those insane markups. Give it time.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Not mine  and yeah my second one was childish. I have a deep hatred for scalpers. 

Sometimes it makes me act irrationally. I get the hustle just don’t respect it and find it scummy.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I don't see it anymore on Reverb, so he must have accepted one of your offers?
> 
> But yeah, no point in trying to sanction these people. The market will correct them if people just stop paying those insane markups. Give it time.



probably removed for only one picture. When an item sells it generally will say “item has sold”
This says “item is unavailable”. He probably sold it outside through PayPal or just got tired of people calling him out and will sell at a later date


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MaxOfMetal said:


> Everything about these is such a shit show. It's a shame as the design is cool and the colors are solid.



I actually think the Legion release went very well. Some QC issues but not too bad. 

It is just little fires everywhere instead of a couple big fire. They will only improve if people continue to report the issues. 

Also I want to say I have an irrational fear of Sneakerheads jumping into this guitar market. Then I realized, it is a higher investment and not much of a profit so we may be safe


----------



## MaxOfMetal

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I actually think the Legion release went very well. Some QC issues but not too bad.
> 
> It is just little fires everywhere instead of a couple big fire. They will only improve if people continue to report the issues.
> 
> Also I want to say I have an irrational fear of Sneakerheads jumping into this guitar market. Then I realized, it is a higher investment and not much of a profit so we may be safe



I just don't buy into this hype and drop cycle thing. No thanks.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MaxOfMetal said:


> I just don't buy into this hype and drop cycle thing. No thanks.



Yeah I can't stand it. I just want to try one ffs. If I don't like it let it back into the wild. 

I dislike drop cycles because they build that hype.


----------



## Jonathan20022

MaxOfMetal said:


> I just don't buy into this hype and drop cycle thing. No thanks.



I don't like it either to be fair, because when there are a pair of sneakers I've inevitably liked it's been a huge pain in the ass to get one at retail. But considering their history, the selling of guitars once they have them on hand in batches seems to be working better for them even pre-legion numbers for amount of instruments making it to customers.

The Ormsby method is more frustrating for buyers when the uncontrollable happens ala COVID. Those Crackle finish Metal X's looked so sick in the mockups, but AFAIK it's all in limbo and the customers have put their cash into the instruments already which can be super frustrating.



r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Yeah I can't stand it. I just want to try one ffs. If I don't like it let it back into the wild.
> 
> I dislike drop cycles because they build that hype.



Hype is literally consumer generated and sustained, there are dozens of brands "hyping" themselves up but have guitars sitting in stock for ages waiting to be sold. And to be fair what people normally do when trying an unknown is just buy it and take a small hit if they don't mesh with it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jonathan20022 said:


> I don't like it either to be fair, because when there are a pair of sneakers I've inevitably liked it's been a huge pain in the ass to get one at retail. But considering their history, the selling of guitars once they have them on hand in batches seems to be working better for them even pre-legion numbers for amount of instruments making it to customers.
> 
> The Ormsby method is more frustrating for buyers when the uncontrollable happens ala COVID. Those Crackle finish Metal X's looked so sick in the mockups, but AFAIK it's all in limbo and the customers have put their cash into the instruments already which can be super frustrating.
> 
> 
> 
> Hype is literally consumer generated and sustained, there are dozens of brands "hyping" themselves up but have guitars sitting in stock for ages waiting to be sold. And to be fair what people normally do when trying an unknown is just buy it and take a small hit if they don't mesh with it.



I get why they do it. Still don't like it.

Again, no thanks.


----------



## Jonathan20022

MaxOfMetal said:


> I get why they do it. Still don't like it.
> 
> Again, no thanks.



Fair enough, it is still horrendous with a Master/J Larada due to low supply counts so I totally understand why.


----------



## cip 123

MaxOfMetal said:


> Everything about these is such a shit show. It's a shame as the design is cool and the colors are solid.


Build your own, takes less time


----------



## SpaceDock

I would like to try one of these, but I will hold out for a used 8 in the 1500 range.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

SpaceDock said:


> I would like to try one of these, but I will hold out for a used 8 in the 1500 range.



Give it time.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Everyone’s mad at the hype and drop but I’m sitting here with a guitar in my hands, that delivered to me literally 3 days after hitting the purchase button. So much cooler than putting in an order with Ormsby and having to wait half a year etc. I was originally thinking of getting a Solar but the 8 I was looking at ships in spring/summer 2021 and it of course only came in black. I hate seeing cool guitars ship then realize I would have had to get in on a run literally a year prior. I get the wait if you’re going custom like Aristides or Kiesel, but I’m so glad I’m not waiting months and months for a production instrument to get built. I’m honestly tired of companies who won’t take the risk of just building a bunch of guitars and marketing them. Many companies have to do slow runs, and let all the slots fill up or not so they don’t waste a single penny or build a guitar that doesn’t have a buyer. I get it, but it adds half a year to the process. IMO that’s just shoveling your problems onto the consumer and making them pay for it with time.


----------



## Daniel Leu

That's fair. On the other side of the spectrum, I ordered a Legion 7 in Overcast on the 15th with the impression that it would ship that same day (or the next). It didn't ship until yesterday which is more than a week after advertised. ETA now is the 28th. I think hype and limited drops are fine, but you need to make sure you can fulfill what you're promising people. Weirdly enough I feel more comfortable allowing for some cosmetic flaws in a guitar's finish than I do unexplained delays. There are a lot of kinks to work out in production of a brand new type of guitar, but keeping ahold of your shipping and inventory are Business 101. I wanted to support a small business, and I really hope I like this guitar but I won't feel too bad if I have to sell it.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Daniel Leu said:


> That's fair. On the other side of the spectrum, I ordered a Legion 7 in Overcast on the 15th with the impression that it would ship that same day (or the next). It didn't ship until yesterday which is more than a week after advertised. ETA now is the 28th. I think hype and limited drops are fine, but you need to make sure you can fulfill what you're promising people. Weirdly enough I feel more comfortable allowing for some cosmetic flaws in a guitar's finish than I do unexplained delays. There are a lot of kinks to work out in production of a brand new type of guitar, but keeping ahold of your shipping and inventory are Business 101. I wanted to support a small business, and I really hope I like this guitar but I won't feel too bad if I have to sell it.


Sorry to hear about your delays man! I feel like they just couldn’t get enough trucks to come pick up all 200 quick enough. All the labels seemed to have been created on Thursday meaning the shipments were ready to go, but just didn’t get on the trucks. I don’t know anything about shipping logistics but they seem like they’ve been quite busy trying to get everyone their guitars. QC and shipping are all growing pains. I get to vote with my wallet only a few times when it comes to guitars and I feel like I’m less paying for the name, and more voting for innovation and new body shapes with my money. We’ll only get more space guitars now from every company because of how successful this run was. And to me that’s great! I hope you like yours and it ends up being worth the wait!


----------



## Vroth88

I dont know much about the details on the covid situation in the US, but that might also have added some delay to shipping. Mine is being shipped overseas so I'll be chill anyway, but I guess I got lucky since it is already on it's way


----------



## 2wheel_Ted

Daniel Leu said:


> That's fair. On the other side of the spectrum, I ordered a Legion 7 in Overcast on the 15th with the impression that it would ship that same day (or the next). It didn't ship until yesterday which is more than a week after advertised. ETA now is the 28th. I think hype and limited drops are fine, but you need to make sure you can fulfill what you're promising people. Weirdly enough I feel more comfortable allowing for some cosmetic flaws in a guitar's finish than I do unexplained delays. There are a lot of kinks to work out in production of a brand new type of guitar, but keeping ahold of your shipping and inventory are Business 101. I wanted to support a small business, and I really hope I like this guitar but I won't feel too bad if I have to sell it.


I sympathize. I ordered mine on the 15th and it arrived yesterday the 23rd. Then again, I live in the Los Angeles area, so if the distribution warehouse is actually in L.A., then it makes sense that I got it as soon as I did.

However, even though I got an update from UPS the day I ordered about a shipping label being created, the status didn’t change until the 22nd. I think you hit all the right points, but I’d add another basic point: communication. In the spirit of good business practice and customer relations, they should have let you and everyone else know in a timely manner (at least a couple business days later) about any possible delays. Getting a notification from UPS about a label being created sets up a false expectation, especially when there’s no feedback from the seller/manufacturer. 

I can’t speak for Abasi Concepts operations, and I’m sure because of Covid, like many other things, operating a business has a extra challenges. Still, a simple email saying something like, “Sorry for the delay. Our folks are working as fast as possible to get your guitar to you”, isn’t a big ask. It would probably go a long way.


----------



## HellaSickTight

2wheel_Ted said:


> I sympathize. I ordered mine on the 15th and it arrived yesterday the 23rd. Then again, I live in the Los Angeles area, so if the distribution warehouse is actually in L.A., then it makes sense that I got it as soon as I did.
> 
> However, even though I got an update from UPS the day I ordered about a shipping label being created, the status didn’t change until the 22nd. I think you hit all the right points, but I’d add another basic point: communication. In the spirit of good business practice and customer relations, they should have let you and everyone else know in a timely manner (at least a couple business days later) about any possible delays. Getting a notification from UPS about a label being created sets up a false expectation, especially when there’s no feedback from the seller/manufacturer.
> 
> I can’t speak for Abasi Concepts operations, and I’m sure because of Covid, like many other things, operating a business has a extra challenges. Still, a simple email saying something like, “Sorry for the delay. Our folks are working as fast as possible to get your guitar to you”, isn’t a big ask. It would probably go a long way.


They said just that about three times so far on all their socials, but they didn’t email anyone. I agree with you that they should have emailed people, but this company seems to be literally only Ivan and Tosin right now. So that’s 1-2 guys managing 200 orders. All my emails are coming straight from Ivan. I bet the dude is stressed.


----------



## 2wheel_Ted

HellaSickTight said:


> They said just that about three times so far on all their socials, but they didn’t email anyone. I agree with you that they should have emailed people, but this company seems to be literally only Ivan and Tosin right now. So that’s 1-2 guys managing 200 orders. All my emails are coming straight from Ivan. I bet the dude is stressed.


No doubt. I don’t pretend to understand how challenging things are for those guys. I’m also not one who’s present on their “socials”, so a good old fashioned canned email is my go to option. 

Regardless, I can’t complain. So far, I’m a happy customer.


----------



## jephjacques

As someone who used to manage their own store/orders, I know how time consuming that shit is. Even managing those emails is a lot.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Delivered! Gonna have to wait til tomorrow, but just got the notification that it was dropped off.

Pretty excited to check it out, might actually open it up tonight and snap some pics.


----------



## Hollowway

HellaSickTight said:


> Everyone’s mad at the hype and drop but I’m sitting here with a guitar in my hands, that delivered to me literally 3 days after hitting the purchase button. So much cooler than putting in an order with Ormsby and having to wait half a year etc. I was originally thinking of getting a Solar but the 8 I was looking at ships in spring/summer 2021 and it of course only came in black. I hate seeing cool guitars ship then realize I would have had to get in on a run literally a year prior. I get the wait if you’re going custom like Aristides or Kiesel, but I’m so glad I’m not waiting months and months for a production instrument to get built. I’m honestly tired of companies who won’t take the risk of just building a bunch of guitars and marketing them. Many companies have to do slow runs, and let all the slots fill up or not so they don’t waste a single penny or build a guitar that doesn’t have a buyer. I get it, but it adds half a year to the process. IMO that’s just shoveling your problems onto the consumer and making them pay for it with time.


I 100% agree about the benefit of having a stock instrument for purchase. I don’t know why more companies don’t do it. I mean, I get that they don’t want to be stuck with inventory, but it’s safer for the buyer, and that can bring more customers. I won’t order a custom that takes more than 6 months to build (basically all customs) because that’s the PayPal window. I’ve ordered 3 guitars and and amp that never got delivered, so I’m done with customs. I know others are, too. In stocks like these are a great solution.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Unfortunately not 100% there boys, I won't go into like super insane detail yet because I just shot Ivan an email about the guitar, and I want to give them a chance to hit me back.

Long story short, it's about what you'd expect from an instrument from WMI. The confusing thing for me, is that my KM7 MkIII and Ormsby Metal X were and are (respectively) super refined and free of any of the issues I've run into on the Larada.

The KM7 was returned due to a very finnicky neck, perfectly built but went out of whack with the tuning extremely fast if anyone was wondering. Can go into more detail about that one in the KM thread.

But I'll harp on a few points about the Larada -
1) The action - it's set up pretty nicely from the box and it features almost 0 buzzing across the board. But a few people are talking about it in this Legion NGD:

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-abasi-concepts-legion-8-sage-blue-babyyyyy.344545/

The action simply can't get much lower than 1.1 - 1.2mm high on the highest string, the saddle is completely bottomed out. This is of course a player to player preference and I am 100% spoiled by some of my current guitars (Pics of my Aristides Action, 0.5mm/0.9mm respectively at the 12th Fret for reference). But this is giving me the same vibe my Suhr 7 had, where the baseplate was so thick and non-recessed that the string saddles bottomed out so without modification it simply couldn't be setup very low without buzzing. If having action lower than that is a must, just keep in mind that you'll need to modify the high e saddle and others if they arrive bottomed out set at this action.






2) The Neck Shape - I know we said these aren't getting the teardrop neck shape, and this might just be me being delirious at 1am noodling on this thing. But is the bass side of the neck thicker than the higher side? I don't have calipers to 100% confirm but the neck profile feels absolutely like some sort of tear drop shape (Thicker bass side, thinner treble side). Definitely a welcome surprise, but pretty confusing since the J Laradas seem to offer the opposite (Thinner bass side, thicker treble side).

3) The Overcast Color - It's absolutely gorgeous, it's not white at all and it's definitely some kind of off white/greyer shade of white. I don't regret getting this finish at all over the sage blue/burl top options. I think anyone who was on the fence but bought this finish will be pleasantly surprised unless they're expecting #ffffff on their guitar 




But yeah, unfortunately it has it's issues and I hope people can respect that I'm giving them their time to get back to me first. If you've owned a guitar from WMI that had some issues, it's in that ballpark, and for the price this runs I'm a tad uncomfortable just stomaching it.


----------



## bassisace

Jonathan20022 said:


> Unfortunately not 100% there boys, I won't go into like super insane detail yet because I just shot Ivan an email about the guitar, and I want to give them a chance to hit me back.
> 
> Long story short, it's about what you'd expect from an instrument from WMI. The confusing thing for me, is that my KM7 MkIII and Ormsby Metal X were and are (respectively) super refined and free of any of the issues I've run into on the Larada.
> 
> The KM7 was returned due to a very finnicky neck, perfectly built but went out of whack with the tuning extremely fast if anyone was wondering. Can go into more detail about that one in the KM thread.
> 
> But I'll harp on a few points about the Larada -
> 1) The action - it's set up pretty nicely from the box and it features almost 0 buzzing across the board. But a few people are talking about it in this Legion NGD:
> 
> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-abasi-concepts-legion-8-sage-blue-babyyyyy.344545/
> 
> The action simply can't get much lower than 1.1 - 1.2mm high on the highest string, the saddle is completely bottomed out. This is of course a player to player preference and I am 100% spoiled by some of my current guitars (Pics of my Aristides Action, 0.5mm/0.9mm respectively at the 12th Fret for reference). But this is giving me the same vibe my Suhr 7 had, where the baseplate was so thick and non-recessed that the string saddles bottomed out so without modification it simply couldn't be setup very low without buzzing. If having action lower than that is a must, just keep in mind that you'll need to modify the high e saddle and others if they arrive bottomed out set at this action.
> 
> View attachment 86359
> 
> View attachment 86360
> 
> 
> 2) The Neck Shape - I know we said these aren't getting the teardrop neck shape, and this might just be me being delirious at 1am noodling on this thing. But is the bass side of the neck thicker than the higher side? I don't have calipers to 100% confirm but the neck profile feels absolutely like some sort of tear drop shape (Thicker bass side, thinner treble side). Definitely a welcome surprise, but pretty confusing since the J Laradas seem to offer the opposite (Thinner bass side, thicker treble side).
> 
> 3) The Overcast Color - It's absolutely gorgeous, it's not white at all and it's definitely some kind of off white/greyer shade of white. I don't regret getting this finish at all over the sage blue/burl top options. I think anyone who was on the fence but bought this finish will be pleasantly surprised unless they're expecting #ffffff on their guitar
> 
> View attachment 86364
> 
> 
> But yeah, unfortunately it has it's issues and I hope people can respect that I'm giving them their time to get back to me first. If you've owned a guitar from WMI that had some issues, it's in that ballpark, and for the price this runs I'm a tad uncomfortable just stomaching it.



Thanks a lot for taking the time to write all this. I was on the fence buying an Abasi guitar and all reviews make me want to wait until their QC gets better.

Other than their design decision to put saddles that don’t permit lower than 1mm action, are there any other problems with the build (finish, fret work, etc.) ?

Is playing the higher frets a pain with that horn on the body?


----------



## Meh

I haven’t had a problem with playing higher frets. I’m used to my thumb going over the neck sometimes so it’s forced me to correct that lol


----------



## Meh

Double post, but I’m happy to try and answer and questions you guys might have about a legion 8 string.


----------



## Bdtunn

Jonathan20022 said:


> Unfortunately not 100% there boys, I won't go into like super insane detail yet because I just shot Ivan an email about the guitar, and I want to give them a chance to hit me back.
> 
> Long story short, it's about what you'd expect from an instrument from WMI. The confusing thing for me, is that my KM7 MkIII and Ormsby Metal X were and are (respectively) super refined and free of any of the issues I've run into on the Larada.
> 
> The KM7 was returned due to a very finnicky neck, perfectly built but went out of whack with the tuning extremely fast if anyone was wondering. Can go into more detail about that one in the KM thread.
> 
> But I'll harp on a few points about the Larada -
> 1) The action - it's set up pretty nicely from the box and it features almost 0 buzzing across the board. But a few people are talking about it in this Legion NGD:
> 
> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-abasi-concepts-legion-8-sage-blue-babyyyyy.344545/
> 
> The action simply can't get much lower than 1.1 - 1.2mm high on the highest string, the saddle is completely bottomed out. This is of course a player to player preference and I am 100% spoiled by some of my current guitars (Pics of my Aristides Action, 0.5mm/0.9mm respectively at the 12th Fret for reference). But this is giving me the same vibe my Suhr 7 had, where the baseplate was so thick and non-recessed that the string saddles bottomed out so without modification it simply couldn't be setup very low without buzzing. If having action lower than that is a must, just keep in mind that you'll need to modify the high e saddle and others if they arrive bottomed out set at this action.
> 
> View attachment 86359
> 
> View attachment 86360
> 
> 
> 2) The Neck Shape - I know we said these aren't getting the teardrop neck shape, and this might just be me being delirious at 1am noodling on this thing. But is the bass side of the neck thicker than the higher side? I don't have calipers to 100% confirm but the neck profile feels absolutely like some sort of tear drop shape (Thicker bass side, thinner treble side). Definitely a welcome surprise, but pretty confusing since the J Laradas seem to offer the opposite (Thinner bass side, thicker treble side).
> 
> 3) The Overcast Color - It's absolutely gorgeous, it's not white at all and it's definitely some kind of off white/greyer shade of white. I don't regret getting this finish at all over the sage blue/burl top options. I think anyone who was on the fence but bought this finish will be pleasantly surprised unless they're expecting #ffffff on their guitar
> 
> View attachment 86364
> 
> 
> But yeah, unfortunately it has it's issues and I hope people can respect that I'm giving them their time to get back to me first. If you've owned a guitar from WMI that had some issues, it's in that ballpark, and for the price this runs I'm a tad uncomfortable just stomaching it.



good to know on the action and thanks for bringing that up! I too am a low action junkie and all of mine are set up below 1mm as well. Hope that can be resolved.


----------



## jephjacques

I legit don't know how y'all play with such low action, I must have caveman paws


----------



## sym30l1c

One of the Sage Blue 7s is already on Reverb.

https://reverb.com/item/36544080-abasi-concepts-larada-7-legion-2020-sage-blue


----------



## Frostbite

jephjacques said:


> I legit don't know how y'all play with such low action, I must have caveman paws


same dude. The lowest I set my action is 1.5 across the whole thing and even then I can make almost any guitar buzz no matter how good it is or how high the action is


----------



## CW7

jephjacques said:


> I legit don't know how y'all play with such low action, I must have caveman paws


I’ve grown accustomed to it over the years and adjusted my technique accordingly; while I haven’t personally touched Tosin’s, from watching and listening to his YT stuff it’s pretty obvious to me his action is also slammed- my J Larada 7 also had this same issue and I had to have the saddle filed down to get it under 1mm . (I run my live guitars slightly higher as I get more heavy Handed at shows).


----------



## jephjacques

GUITAR DADS: heavier strings and higher action sound better! More tone!!!

TOSIN: lmao we'll see


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, 0.5mm is insane! I play with 1.0 or just under for high E, and higher on the lower strings. I have a light touch, but I fret out on bends or lose sustain with much lower.


----------



## jephjacques

my 070r is 2mm and I thought that was LOW

caveman hands


----------



## Jonathan20022

LMFAO, I've really grown accustomed to it, there's a pretty interesting sensation with heavier strings + low action. 10's bend like 9's when the string is lowered by that much, but you can use like 11 - 49's in E Standard with low action and retain all the tension on the right hand while adding slinkiness to the strings around the middle of the fretboard. I can demo that 060 with that action, I get zero buzzing even if I slam the strings as hard as I can while I play it.

But my Ormsby has 11 - 56 in C# with 1.0/2.0mm action (High/Low Respectively), normal/higher action is definitely not a deal breaker for me but I love playing leads on the Aristides because I can get that low without all the noise and buzzing.


----------



## Hollowway

Jonathan20022 said:


> LMFAO
> 
> I've really grown accustomed to it, there's a pretty interesting sensation with heavier strings + low action. 10's bend like 9's when the string is lowered by that much, but you can use like 11 - 49's in E Standard with low action and retain all the tension on the right hand while adding slinkiness to the strings around the middle of the fretboard. I can demo that 060 with that action, I get zero buzzing even if I slam the strings as hard as I can while I play it.
> 
> But my Ormsby has 11 - 56 in C# with 1.0/2.0mm action (High/Low Respectively), normal/higher action is definitely not a deal breaker for me but I love playing leads on the Aristides because I can get that low without all the noise and buzzing.



Yeah, I've got some guitars super low, and it's GREAT. Those are keepers that aren't going anywhere. I play with a light touch, so I'm fine with low action. But I can't get most guitars below 1.0 without issues. It takes some great fretwork, a perfectly adjusted nut, and a dialed in neck to get there. Frankly, it doesn't surprise me that you get it on an Aristides. Only really nice instruments with a luthier that really cares about such a thing can achieve that. Aristides are amazing.


----------



## Jonathan20022

bassisace said:


> Thanks a lot for taking the time to write all this. I was on the fence buying an Abasi guitar and all reviews make me want to wait until their QC gets better.
> 
> Other than their design decision to put saddles that don’t permit lower than 1mm action, are there any other problems with the build (finish, fret work, etc.) ?
> 
> Is playing the higher frets a pain with that horn on the body?



The guitar is pretty comfortable, but if you sit with your guitar on your right thigh there is some pretty gnarly neck dive. Feels very optimized for Classical position, which is how I spend most of my time playing anyways.

The issues I'm having are with the build itself, mostly the end of the fretboard there are some weird defects in the neck and what looks like a surface level tool mark across the neck pickup (Slipped tool when adjusting something?). The finish work itself is super sloppy at the end of the headstock, it doesn't look like it was taped off properly and interestingly enough reveals a blonde layer that is definitely some kind of veneer under the headstock's solid color finish. Fretwork is solid, no issues and the fret ends are smoothed over well, about what you'd expect from a WMI instrument.

There's also a few spots where the finish (Overcast) landed on the neck and was finished over, so there's two or three specks of white/grey that can't be removed without refinishing the neck  It's all cosmetic, and I could stomach the two spots under the neck finish, or even some slightly sloppy paint at the headstock tip. But at the cost, I'm feeling like just sending it back.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

I'm sure this has been asked, but has anyone been able to compare the legion to the J7? I realize "worth" is very subjective, but I am wondering if its better to hold out for the next drop or grab a legion and save the money?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Kinda glad I canceled overcast 8 and decided to wait for next masters series 8s


----------



## jephjacques

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I'm sure this has been asked, but has anyone been able to compare the legion to the J7? I realize "worth" is very subjective, but I am wondering if its better to hold out for the next drop or grab a legion and save the money?



Everyone seems very happy with their J7s, mixed reactions to their Legions.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

guess we have three manufacturers making three guitars with different construction in three parts of the world, united by a website and an aesthetic


----------



## AmoryDrive

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I'm sure this has been asked, but has anyone been able to compare the legion to the J7? I realize "worth" is very subjective, but I am wondering if its better to hold out for the next drop or grab a legion and save the money?


Honestly for the money I'd say Legion going off the one I played at NAMM. Main difference is gonna be the neck profile as the J has the asymmetrical one. Definitely a better profile but whether its worth another like, 1000-1300 is up to you


----------



## bassisace

jephjacques said:


> Everyone seems very happy with their J7s, mixed reactions to their Legions.



Not everyone is happy with their J7s. A friend of mine got a J7 and noticed that the first string has a lower volume than the second string. The problem is with bridge pickup alignment with the first string. I wouldn’t be surprised if the next J7 that are built don’t have the same bridge pickup alignment or even maybe another pickup that has a wider magnetic field to compensate.

I’ve also heard about warped J7 necks and the fact that the body horn being attached to the neck prevents the truss rod from adjusting neck relief on the higher frets.

For Legion, on the sample reviews that I looked at roughly 90% have finish blemishes.

I’d love to buy an Abasi but we can’t go to a store and try one.


----------



## StevenC

Jack McGoldrick said:


> guess we have three manufacturers making three guitars with different construction in three parts of the world, united by a website and an aesthetic


Ibanez? No, Fender! ESP maybe?


----------



## jyym

What’s the neck width at the nut on these?


----------



## xzacx

bassisace said:


> I’ve also heard about warped J7 necks and *the fact that the body horn being attached to the neck *prevents the truss rod from adjusting neck relief on the higher frets.



Except it isn’t. In fact, the gap here has been one of the biggest criticisms of it.


----------



## A-Branger

Jonathan20022 said:


> but AFAIK it's all in limbo



updates have been posted and even pics from WMI. the run is done and waiting shipment from Korea, the shipping company has delays/overbooked so they would arrive early/mid December



HellaSickTight said:


> Everyone’s mad at the hype and drop but I’m sitting here with a guitar in my hands, that delivered to me literally 3 days after hitting the purchase button. So much cooler than putting in an order with Ormsby and having to wait half a year etc. I was originally thinking of getting a Solar but the 8 I was looking at ships in spring/summer 2021 and it of course only came in black. I hate seeing cool guitars ship then realize I would have had to get in on a run literally a year prior. I get the wait if you’re going custom like Aristides or Kiesel, but I’m so glad I’m not waiting months and months for a production instrument to get built. I’m honestly tired of companies who won’t take the risk of just building a bunch of guitars and marketing them. Many companies have to do slow runs, and let all the slots fill up or not so they don’t waste a single penny or build a guitar that doesn’t have a buyer. I get it, but it adds half a year to the process. IMO that’s just shoveling your problems onto the consumer and making them pay for it with time.



then buy them once they are available. dont read any pre-oders and treath them like a "in-stock" only. So only buy when they are in-sotck, like you want it to happen. Gutiars are still going to get build, only thing a pre-order does for you is to give you the chance to pay in parts, and for you to be 100% secure on your color/string option, as you might order the very only one guitar in 8 string in that specific color, so you would get yours, if you wait until they are in-stock then you wont have the option as it wont get buid due to lack of popularity. And before you say that they should sill make them, then thats the difference with doing pre-orders and building a blind batch. With pre-orders you can offer 20 color options and only build what people order, with a blind batch you donno waht they gonna buy so you have to play "safe" and offer less options. And nope, is not easy to guess what people want, at all. 

so forget about pre-orders, see those as "rumours", and only see their range and offerings once they become in-stock



HellaSickTight said:


> They said just that about three times so far on all their socials, but they didn’t email anyone. I agree with you that they should have emailed people, but this company seems to be literally only Ivan and Tosin right now. So that’s 1-2 guys managing 200 orders. All my emails are coming straight from Ivan. I bet the dude is stressed.



Although I agree with you they should ahve sent an email, its a double edge sword. This could open the flood gates to everyone repliying the email and then having to deal with that. You would be surprised on how little people actualy read instrucctions and those types of email updates


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

xzacx said:


> Except it isn’t. In fact, the gap here has been one of the biggest criticisms of it.



From frets 12 to ~15, there’s a ~2mm gap while from frets 15 to 24 no gap. I have a J Larada right in front of me.

There is indeed a neck section in that area that has a little hump, regardless of truss rod adjustment. I don’t mind it at all. My tech also thinks this is possibly due to neck and body being joined from frets ~15 to 24.

Anyhow, I like my J Larada quite a lot


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bassisace said:


> I’ve also heard about warped J7 necks and the fact that the body horn being attached to the neck prevents the truss rod from adjusting neck relief on the higher frets.



Truss rods don't affect the higher frets, that's a function of what's called "drop off" (or lack of) where you taper fret height to the end of the neck to account for the elliptical string path/relief.

Fodera, Conklin, Brubaker, etc. have been doing instruments with extended upper bouts for decades, this shouldn't be a problem.

The rods flex at thier center, which is roughly at the 9th fret, and anchor around the 20th, so there's no real way to affect the frets higher up the neck, or lower for that matter.


----------



## Jonathan20022

A-Branger said:


> updates have been posted and even pics from WMI. the run is done and waiting shipment from Korea, the shipping company has delays/overbooked so they would arrive early/mid December
> 
> 
> 
> then buy them once they are available. dont read any pre-oders and treath them like a "in-stock" only. So only buy when they are in-sotck, like you want it to happen. Gutiars are still going to get build, only thing a pre-order does for you is to give you the chance to pay in parts, and for you to be 100% secure on your color/string option, as you might order the very only one guitar in 8 string in that specific color, so you would get yours, if you wait until they are in-stock then you wont have the option as it wont get buid due to lack of popularity. And before you say that they should sill make them, then thats the difference with doing pre-orders and building a blind batch. With pre-orders you can offer 20 color options and only build what people order, with a blind batch you donno waht they gonna buy so you have to play "safe" and offer less options. And nope, is not easy to guess what people want, at all.
> 
> so forget about pre-orders, see those as "rumours", and only see their range and offerings once they become in-stock
> 
> 
> 
> Although I agree with you they should ahve sent an email, its a double edge sword. This could open the flood gates to everyone repliying the email and then having to deal with that. You would be surprised on how little people actualy read instrucctions and those types of email updates



I mean that's what people do? If they don't want to pre-order then they just wait for what remains in the way of instocks and buy it. He was just saying he prefers to buy instock products vs a pre-order system where you're kept waiting.

It's a risk many customers are willing to take, at this point I see too much cool gear go up for sale to have my gear fund held up for X amount of time. I would still order an Ormsby in stock if the specs I saw were available, thanks for the info I'll be keeping my eye out for one of the 7 string Metal X's!

And sending an email and dealing with it is part of the job, even moreso when a deadline isn't missed. I'm not an impatient customer, but as a general rule don't promise what you can't achieve or just don't give yourself a deadline at all. Ignoring the problem is a really shit option for the business, and they wouldn't put themselves in the position if they didn't say "Shipping by X date".


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

MaxOfMetal said:


> Truss rods don't affect the higher frets, that's a function of what's called "drop off" (or lack of) where you taper fret height to the end of the neck to account for the elliptical string path/relief.
> 
> Fodera, Conklin, Brubaker, etc. have been doing instruments with extended upper bouts for decades, this shouldn't be a problem.
> 
> The rods flex at thier center, which is roughly at the 9th fret, and anchor around the 20th, so there's no real way to affect the frets higher up the neck, or lower for that matter.



That’s really good to know, thanks for the info. On the J7 this has absolutely no effect on playability that I can discern.


----------



## A-Branger

Jonathan20022 said:


> I mean that's what people do? If they don't want to pre-order then they just wait for what remains in the way of instocks and buy it. He was just saying he prefers to buy instock products vs a pre-order system where you're kept waiting.
> 
> It's a risk many customers are willing to take, at this point I see too much cool gear go up for sale to have my gear fund held up for X amount of time. I would still order an Ormsby in stock if the specs I saw were available, thanks for the info I'll be keeping my eye out for one of the 7 string Metal X's!
> 
> And sending an email and dealing with it is part of the job, even moreso when a deadline isn't missed. I'm not an impatient customer, but as a general rule don't promise what you can't achieve or just don't give yourself a deadline at all. Ignoring the problem is a really shit option for the business, and they wouldn't put themselves in the position if they didn't say "Shipping by X date".



some folks do, some folks thing pre-ordering is the absolute only way. And they way he worded that sentence, it seemed like that. Again, you dont have to put your money and get your funds held. Wait util the very end to get a pre-order, or jsut wait until spare stock is released.

And yeah, I agree with you on the sending an email. Im jsut pointing out a reason on why Abasi might have not done it...?... donno, jsut saying dealing with a bunch of angry emails is not fun. But moreso is opening the door for possible refunds and/or people getting upset. One thing is to not make your customer angry, another is giving them the chance and the opportunity to do so (like encourage them to by remind them about it). The one whos gonna complain, is gonna do it regardless. But there would be alot of more people who normally wont say anything, but reciving an email like that might spark them to complain too.... It is a tricky situation indeed


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I'm sure this has been asked, but has anyone been able to compare the legion to the J7? I realize "worth" is very subjective, but I am wondering if its better to hold out for the next drop or grab a legion and save the money?


I don’t have a Legion but know people that have them and I’ve owned 2 J7s now (sold the first and then snagged one off the last batch). 
My overall impression is what I expected ; h the Japanese built ones are definitely a step up in every department. (This has been a recurring theme for me with multiple companies, Strandberg and Ibanez to name two off the top of my head). 

My J7 needed one TINY adjustment on the high e saddle to go under 1mm, and after that, it’s slammed and shreds. Super light, snappy, and one of THE most playable 7 strings I’ve had the pleasure of owning, at any cost (if feels to me like a big 6 vs a 7. Super easy to navigate and the Wenge neck is crazy resonant).


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> I don’t have a Legion but know people that have them and I’ve owned 2 J7s now (sold the first and then snagged one off the last batch).
> My overall impression is what I expected ; h the Japanese built ones are definitely a step up in every department. (This has been a recurring theme for me with multiple companies, Strandberg and Ibanez to name two off the top of my head).
> 
> My J7 needed one TINY adjustment on the high e saddle to go under 1mm, and after that, it’s slammed and shreds. Super light, snappy, and one of THE most playable 7 strings I’ve had the pleasure of owning, at any cost (if feels to me like a big 6 vs a 7. Super easy to navigate and the Wenge neck is crazy resonant).



Thanks for the info!! As hard as it may be to fight the GAS for the legion 7, I think I'll ultimately be happier to wait for a J7 when I am able to acquire one.


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Thanks for the info!! As hard as it may be to fight the GAS for the legion 7, I think I'll ultimately be happier to wait for a J7 when I am able to acquire one.


From what I’ve gathered in my personal experience and a couple of trusted friend’s reviews who have Legions, I think you’re doing the right thing.


----------



## Chromatizm

bassisace said:


> I’d love to buy an Abasi but we can’t go to a store and try one.



This. This is why I dream on building a custom guitar with Larada's neck and signature Fishmans. Sure, everything is important, but if I can't have it all, I should at least try to get the most important parts. But I cannot find any exact measurements for the nut and bridge. Do you know if there are any on the internet?


----------



## cip 123

Chromatizm said:


> This. This is why I dream on building a custom guitar with Larada's neck and signature Fishmans. Sure, everything is important, but if I can't have it all, I should at least try to get the most important parts. But I cannot find any exact measurements for the nut and bridge. Do you know if there are any on the internet?


If you get a custom guitar you still can't try it out before it's bought....?

Additional point even if you have someone build you a Larada it will not feel like a Larada because unless your builder is Grover Jackson I'm willing to bet they haven't touched one either.


----------



## jyym

Chromatizm said:


> This. This is why I dream on building a custom guitar with Larada's neck and signature Fishmans. Sure, everything is important, but if I can't have it all, I should at least try to get the most important parts. But I cannot find any exact measurements for the nut and bridge. Do you know if there are any on the internet?


one of the people that bought will probably provide the measurements here.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Ivan just got back to me, it's going to be a return unfortunately.

I was offered a replacement to be built/delivered by January/February or a full refund, and like I expressed before I'd rather just purchase and have something delivered to me that's readily available.

I'm not going to beg for it, but I was hoping that they would essentially send me a replacement pickup + some kind of discount to keep it as is. Hopefully they can salvage it and clean it up, then sell it as a b-stock to someone else for cheaper, I'm okay with the refund either way. I'll funnel it into something else I'm sure at this point 

Here's a few pics for awareness of the issues I ran into on mine if they do list it back up.
- Tip of the headstock finishing issues, revealing veneer?
- Impression on the tip of the headstock
- Chip out of the edge of the fretboard
- Tool marks at the end of the fretboard/pickup cover
- Paint splatter under the neck finish


----------



## coolverine

in total, those are egregious cosmetic issues.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Jonathan20022 said:


> Ivan just got back to me, it's going to be a return unfortunately.
> 
> I was offered a replacement to be built/delivered by January/February or a full refund, and like I expressed before I'd rather just purchase and have something delivered to me that's readily available.
> 
> I'm not going to beg for it, but I was hoping that they would essentially send me a replacement pickup + some kind of discount to keep it as is. Hopefully they can salvage it and clean it up, then sell it as a b-stock to someone else for cheaper, I'm okay with the refund either way. I'll funnel it into something else I'm sure at this point
> 
> Here's a few pics for awareness of the issues I ran into on mine if they do list it back up.
> - Tip of the headstock finishing issues, revealing veneer?
> - Impression on the tip of the headstock
> - Chip out of the edge of the fretboard
> - Tool marks at the end of the fretboard/pickup cover
> - Paint splatter under the neck finish
> 
> View attachment 86409
> View attachment 86411
> View attachment 86412
> View attachment 86413
> View attachment 86414
> View attachment 86415
> View attachment 86416
> View attachment 86417
> View attachment 86418
> View attachment 86419


Jeez that’s quite rough man, much more disappointing than I feel mine was. Ivan got back to me too and is giving me the same offer. I feel like I might just keep the instrument as mine was only a paint blemish and yours has serious tool marks. Sorry again to see that man. I’m baffled how some of these left QC.


----------



## Lastronaut

That's a bummer for sure. Another member posted a NGD talking about paint on the neck and tool marks....mine is supposed to be here tuesday...needless to say I'm a bit nervous about what condition its gonna be in. 

Hard for me to believe someone gave that a good look over and said "ehh that'll do"

Either way sounds like Ivan is trying to make things right so there is at least that.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jonathan20022 said:


> Ivan just got back to me, it's going to be a return unfortunately.
> 
> I was offered a replacement to be built/delivered by January/February or a full refund, and like I expressed before I'd rather just purchase and have something delivered to me that's readily available.
> 
> I'm not going to beg for it, but I was hoping that they would essentially send me a replacement pickup + some kind of discount to keep it as is. Hopefully they can salvage it and clean it up, then sell it as a b-stock to someone else for cheaper, I'm okay with the refund either way. I'll funnel it into something else I'm sure at this point
> 
> Here's a few pics for awareness of the issues I ran into on mine if they do list it back up.
> - Tip of the headstock finishing issues, revealing veneer?
> - Impression on the tip of the headstock
> - Chip out of the edge of the fretboard
> - Tool marks at the end of the fretboard/pickup cover
> - Paint splatter under the neck finish
> 
> View attachment 86409
> View attachment 86411
> View attachment 86412
> View attachment 86413
> View attachment 86414
> View attachment 86415
> View attachment 86416
> View attachment 86417
> View attachment 86418
> View attachment 86419



This must be that sweet sweet WMI quality everyone keeps going on about. 

I guess no one checks these things before shipping, because someone straight up dropped something on the guitar to gouge the pickup like that. Ask me how I know. 

Again, if they want to be taken at all seriously they need to do better. What a joke.


----------



## narad

Maybe one or two small flaws would be acceptable, but that one had a whol' larada problems.


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> Maybe one or two small flaws would be acceptable, but that one had a whol' larada problems.


How long have you been hanging onto that, waiting for the right moment?


----------



## Jonathan20022

MaxOfMetal said:


> This must be that sweet sweet WMI quality everyone keeps going on about.
> 
> I guess no one checks these things before shipping, because someone straight up dropped something on the guitar to gouge the pickup like that. Ask me how I know.
> 
> Again, if they want to be taken at all seriously they need to do better. What a joke.



Definitely, Ivan told me he has a team of guys checking these, make of that what you will. But honestly at this point and for the price I'm absolutely just buying used if I ever do again, at least I can ask for pictures and spend less than 1800 - 2k for one.


----------



## 2wheel_Ted

Yikes! Damn, that’s undeniably bad. Looks like someone was drunk on the assembly line. Seriously though, looks like the Abasi Concepts folks need more eyes on QC. 

I suppose I lucked out w/mine, but my sympathies nonetheless. That’s disappointing.


----------



## Dayn

This makes me sad. It's hard to give the benefit of the doubt here, but it really does look like the guitar's been thrown about like a ragdoll...


----------



## chipflavour

Man that's a shame... how does a mark like that end up on the pickup? What the heck?? 

Now I feel incredibly lucky that my one only has like 10 cosmetic blemishes that are relatively minor, and hard to pay attention to since most of them are on the back of the guitar.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> How long have you been hanging onto that, waiting for the right moment?



Probably since about the time they did away with neg rep


----------



## Meh

Can anyone recommended what string brand and tensions to use going forward for this?


----------



## jephjacques

Oof yeah that is a sloppy guitar.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

The real question though is how many fanboys will not report issues? 

Bet we won’t see any YouTube reviews talking about these issues. I guarantee influences got the ones with no flaws


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

After my inspection and my tech's inspection, I unfortunately returned my Spartan 6 tundra last week to get a refund.

Reasons:
- marks on body under the paint. Ivan thinks they may be wood pores but my tech and I think otherwise since they seem awfully regular. Regardless, they looked weird to our eyes.
- a ding on the back of the body;
- faulty tuners (D string tuner becomes super hard to turn, G string tuner sometimes does nothing for while then does a super quick tension change);
- some string scratches on the pickups (they were not covered by plastic for shipping);
- most importantly: upper neck access is just not what I expected. More precisely, the slope of the neck-body interface is kinda weird for thumb placement for my way of playing (I don't have that problem with the J7), notably for bends. That’s super personal and not a knock on the Spartan. It just doesn’t suit my playing style.

I've also cancelled my Legion order last week because I cannot take the risk of having a faulty build for 2000$.

Ivan gives great customer service and I wish them the best of success. I hope they rectify the situation with future runs.

And again, I love my J7, so they can most definitely make great instruments.

I debated not posting this because I dont want to harm a company that is starting out, but I think customer testimonials can help future customers.


----------



## bassisace

Some companies and stores keep saying they do QC, but they probably should do QC on their QC.


----------



## BlackMastodon

chipflavour said:


> Now I feel incredibly lucky that my one only has like 10 cosmetic blemishes that are relatively minor, and hard to pay attention to since most of them are on the back of the guitar.


I'm sorry, only 10 blemishes? On a brand new guitar?! I get if they're cosmetic issues and they don't bother you, even Jonathan's build probably played as well as any of the other guitars, but those levels of cosmetic problems on a new $2k guitar are outrageous to me. The tip of the headstock of Jonathan's looks like the side of a screw was hammered against it.

Yeesh, my $500 PRS SE-7 from WMI had way better QC than these.


----------



## den_3k

https://reverb.com/item/36501637-abasi-larada-8-legion-2020-charcoal-burl

Scalpers gonna scalp...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

den_3k said:


> https://reverb.com/item/36501637-abasi-larada-8-legion-2020-charcoal-burl
> 
> Scalpers gonna scalp...



Garbage pics and zero feedback, I'm sure some rube will grab it before I even post.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Meh said:


> Can anyone recommended what string brand and tensions to use going forward for this?


THE STRING SOURCE!
Get yourself into tension calculations that match your desired tunings. Also try String Joy.


----------



## HellaSickTight

MaxOfMetal said:


> Garbage pics and zero feedback, I'm sure some rube will grab it before I even post.


Haha This is the SAME GUY from reverb a few days ago. “Neko’s gear” in San Luis Obispo


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

He has priced it lower. With his fees it comes out to about what he paid for it. I can understand with reverb fees being as bad. Not as bad when he first posted it at 2300


----------



## Meh

HellaSickTight said:


> THE STRING SOURCE!
> Get yourself into tension calculations that match your desired tunings. Also try String Joy.


Thanks!!


----------



## 2wheel_Ted

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> The real question though is how many fanboys will not report issues?
> 
> Bet we won’t see any YouTube reviews talking about these issues. I guarantee influences got the ones with no flaws


I’m no influencer, but somehow, I seem to have scored a cosmetically flawless charcoal burl 8 model. So far, the flawed examples seem to be painted models. I wonder if it’s specific to those.


----------



## Jonathan20022

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> After my inspection and my tech's inspection, I unfortunately returned my Spartan 6 tundra last week to get a refund.
> 
> Reasons:
> - marks on body under the paint. Ivan thinks they may be wood pores but my tech and I think otherwise since they seem awfully regular. Regardless, they looked weird to our eyes.
> - a ding on the back of the body;
> - faulty tuners (D string tuner becomes super hard to turn, G string tuner sometimes does nothing for while then does a super quick tension change);
> - some string scratches on the pickups (they were not covered by plastic for shipping);
> - most importantly: upper neck access is just not what I expected. More precisely, the slope of the neck-body interface is kinda weird for thumb placement for my way of playing (I don't have that problem with the J7), notably for bends. That’s super personal and not a knock on the Spartan. It just doesn’t suit my playing style.
> 
> I've also cancelled my Legion order last week because I cannot take the risk of having a faulty build for 2000$.
> 
> Ivan gives great customer service and I wish them the best of success. I hope they rectify the situation with future runs.
> 
> And again, I love my J7, so they can most definitely make great instruments.
> 
> I debated not posting this because I dont want to harm a company that is starting out, but I think customer testimonials can help future customers.



I decided to post the pics and be transparent about *my *guitar, because over the weekend I saw them just posting 5 star reviews left on their site to their Instagram Stories. I full heartedly believe that there are customers who may contact Abasi like HellaSickTight did, and just deal with whatever minor cosmetic issues they have because they like the guitar too much not to.

Especially since there's no immediate option for replacement which I'd give a shot, if you had to wait 3 - 4 months for another Larada Legion I doubt many would take that route. Being honest about these issues and documenting them is the only way to give a business the feedback that they need to improve their process.

These should be honestly priced around what the Keith Merrow MkIII Hybrids are priced at. 1500ish new, and 1200ish for Blems like mine.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Jonathan20022 Here are some pics (white on white may be difficult to see).


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @Jonathan20022 Here are some pics (white on white may be difficult to see).




I mean, maybe I'm less critical but I don't think I would have even noticed these had I not been looking for them?

That being said, I am also the guy always looking at "demo" and "blem" models to save a couple hundred here and there. I usually forget the flaws are even there after playing it for a few weeks. so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## I play music

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I mean, maybe I'm less critical but I don't think I would have even noticed these had I not been looking for them?
> 
> That being said, I am also the guy always looking at "demo" and "blem" models to save a couple hundred here and there. I usually forget the flaws are even there after playing it for a few weeks. so take that with a grain of salt.


That's kinda the point I guess. Everyone else would sell these as b stock. And saving some money for minor blemishes that you can live with is cool. Paying 3k and having blemishes is not.


----------



## Daniel Leu

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I mean, maybe I'm less critical but I don't think I would have even noticed these had I not been looking for them?
> 
> That being said, I am also the guy always looking at "demo" and "blem" models to save a couple hundred here and there. I usually forget the flaws are even there after playing it for a few weeks. so take that with a grain of salt.



Same, though I realize we're probably in the minority here. The tuner issue (and possibly pickup covers) is obviously something that can and should be fixed, but I don't think I'd return a guitar (if it felt, played, and sounded perfect) over those smaller items. But I also don't treat my instruments as well as they probably deserve either, they all have at least a few dings and scratches.


----------



## Chevygizmo

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> The real question though is how many fanboys will not report issues?
> 
> Bet we won’t see any YouTube reviews talking about these issues. I guarantee influences got the ones with no flaws


These Schechter guitars seem like a total disaster for $2000 and the $3600 USA models continue to be a roll of the dice since every batch had an issue. On a side note the red Spartan and Space Tele are on reverb but these reviews made me reluctant to a age one. Kudos to the honest reviews here because they are few and far between. Wish a luthier had the balls to do a YouTube video that walked through the pros/cons but that would get cancelled by the fanboys.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I mean, maybe I'm less critical but I don't think I would have even noticed these had I not been looking for them?
> 
> That being said, I am also the guy always looking at "demo" and "blem" models to save a couple hundred here and there. I usually forget the flaws are even there after playing it for a few weeks. so take that with a grain of salt.



These blemishes kinda kill part of the resale value (the one near the pickup is ~5mm wide and the other one is ~4mm deep). Add to that tuners whose shaft is not the correct size for the tuner heads.

Maybe I’m crazy, but to me these are not flaws that I can accept on a 3 k$ instrument.


----------



## Daniel Leu

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> After a few years, I might have resold it. These blemishes kinda kill part of the resale value (the one near the pickup is ~5mm wide and the other one is ~4mm deep). Add to that tuners whose shaft is not the correct size for the tuner heads.
> 
> Again, for me the main reason was the playability was just not there. I had serious problems with upper neck access.
> 
> Maybe I’m crazy, but to me these are not flaws that I can accept on a 3 k$ instrument.



For sure. Different players are bothered by different things. If it's the kind of issue you can't get out of your head while playing it, it's not worth it. The tuner issue is definitely unacceptable.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Daniel Leu said:


> For sure. Different players are bothered by different things. If it's the kind of issue you can't get out of your head while playing it, it's not worth it. The tuner issue is definitely unacceptable.



For me the main reason was that the playability was just not there. I had serious problems with upper neck access.

The slope of the neck-body joint for upper fret access felt at a weird angle. Thumb placement just felt off when doing bends or runs in that area.

Different strokes for different folks...


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Chevygizmo said:


> These Schechter guitars seem like a total disaster for $2000 and the $3600 USA models continue to be a roll of the dice since every batch had an issue. On a side note the red Spartan and Space Tele are on reverb but these reviews made me reluctant to a age one. Kudos to the honest reviews here because they are few and far between. Wish a luthier had the balls to do a YouTube video that walked through the pros/cons but that would get cancelled by the fanboys.



Sadly cancel culture is a thing. You would get cancelled by some fanboys. I can see the comments

“Well technically (push’s glasses up). They intend for tool marks because that was what ToGod wanted. Maybe stop focusing on the “flaws” and look at what matters. Gargling the balls of our 8 string deity”

“what a joke. You only used chugs in your opening demo in 4/4. This doesn’t work for you because you can’t thump.”

“I made $5000 in one week from home and I can tell you how. Click my link
“ 

That is out of my system


----------



## Jonathan20022

Where does this stuff happen? 

AFAIK fanboys have zero power, and they can be apologists all they want but at the end of the day. That's why you post photographic proof of anything you run into, if anyone unironically does that it just shows a lack of maturity. I remember arguing with buddies about which gaming console was better than the other. It's no different, but people on the ground level bickering over semantics when someone displays actual issues have zero impact to be able to "cancel" anyone.

You can't also just take my guitar, and use that as ammo for the "Abasi is ruined, they can't put out a good guitar to save their life!" Narrative. Back when guitar Facebook groups were less of a circle jerk, people would take 1 - 3 examples of QC issues and point blank say that X/Y/Z brand is falling under pressure and going under.

There's a large amount of nuance that people are missing here, and like I said a few pages back. You're still buying a guitar from the same factory that built the infamous late 2000's Schecter Hellraisers. Just because you're paying 2k for an Abasi/PRS/Strandberg/Ormsby coming out of that factory doesn't mean you should expect a boutique guitar with absolute attention to detail.

Abasi's QC team should have caught it, and sent it straight back to be rebuilt. But pretending that every instrument WMI produces is a 10/10 banger is pure delusion IMHO. They do produce great instruments, and WMI's QC as well as the recipient brand should also perform QC checks and make sure the duds never hit client's hands.


----------



## SpaceDock

I think the QC issue is because of tight margins on these companies. Imagine Schecter or Ibanez working with the same WMI factory, they order 100 guitars. Those 100 guitars get audited by their USA importer who kicks out the crappy ones. Then the actual retailer is going to get their lot and kick out the ones they don’t like. With a retailer like Axe Palace or Ibanez Rules or DCGL, they might be rejecting 30% of stock that is not up to their standards. So the end user has already had three rounds of clearance with the original vendor (Ibanez or Schecter) being the one who they are rejected back to. 

With Abasi or Strandberg, they are buying from WMI and want to sell every guitar. No retailer and they are the distribution. I bet that why these flaws make it through it because the person here in the US is holding the guitar at arms length away saying, “do I reject and miss this sale or will some fanboy take this and not say anything.” I know when I had quality concerns on a brand new Strandberg, all of my criticism was met with “passed our stated inspection.” 

As much as I don’t like big companies and want to help out start ups like Abasi, I think it is their desire to ship product, make money that allows these flaws to make it to market. If you don’t speak up it will only get worse.


----------



## Jonathan20022

100% and if you receive a dud at least let them and communities know. They should also have a section of the site dedicated to b-stocks and if they want to make that sale. At least recoup some of the cash in a b-stock heavily discounted sale rather than rejecting the guitar as long as the instrument still functions 100% which mine did. I don't think people would have passed up the opportunity at my Larada for $4 - 500 less.

It's actually a little worrisome that they didn't order 2 - 3 backups per string/spec in the case of returns or replacements like mine.


----------



## I play music

SpaceDock said:


> I think the QC issue is because of tight margins on these companies. Imagine Schecter or Ibanez working with the same WMI factory, they order 100 guitars. Those 100 guitars get audited by their USA importer who kicks out the crappy ones. Then the actual retailer is going to get their lot and kick out the ones they don’t like. With a retailer like Axe Palace or Ibanez Rules or DCGL, they might be rejecting 30% of stock that is not up to their standards. So the end user has already had three rounds of clearance with the original vendor (Ibanez or Schecter) being the one who they are rejected back to.
> 
> With Abasi or Strandberg, they are buying from WMI and want to sell every guitar. No retailer and they are the distribution. I bet that why these flaws make it through it because the person here in the US is holding the guitar at arms length away saying, “do I reject and miss this sale or will some fanboy take this and not say anything.” I know when I had quality concerns on a brand new Strandberg, all of my criticism was met with “passed our stated inspection.”
> 
> As much as I don’t like big companies and want to help out start ups like Abasi, I think it is their desire to ship product, make money that allows these flaws to make it to market. If you don’t speak up it will only get worse.


No, I think their margin is waaay higher because as you say there is no middle men like distributors and retailer that would want their share. 
Harley Benton as an extreme example can sell guitars of solid quality with stainless steel frets, locking tuners, roasted maple necks, sparkle finish for 400€ skipping the middle men.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

There are right ways to do things and wrong ways to do things. Folks have been ordering small batches of guitars from OEMs like Cortek, Samick, WMI, etc. for decades. It's not rocket science.


----------



## cip 123

Chevygizmo said:


> These Schechter guitars seem like a total disaster for $2000 and the $3600 USA models continue to be a roll of the dice since every batch had an issue. On a side note the red Spartan and Space Tele are on reverb but these reviews made me reluctant to a age one. Kudos to the honest reviews here because they are few and far between. Wish a luthier had the balls to do a YouTube video that walked through the pros/cons but that would get cancelled by the fanboys.


Try not to besmirch Schecter's name here particularly on their USA stuff. Schecter aren't building the stuff and the only info I've seen of their involvement is Distribution and given that Abasi/Ivan and Co seem to have a direct hand in the shipping, Schecter's only involvement maybe shipping from Korea to the USA. This is Abasi and we don't know what goes on behind the scenes, Abasi aren't pointing the finger at Schecter nor should you.



MaxOfMetal said:


> There are right ways to do things and wrong ways to do things. Folks have been ordering small batches of guitars from OEMs like Cortek, Samick, WMI, etc. for decades. It's not rocket science.


I think this is a key point, the guitars are being shipped over and are ending up in the hands of Abasi (since we don't know any more info). We don't know if they have employed final QC guys, or setup guys. But you can take other companies who work with WMI and the guitars do end up in the hands people who set them up and check them before they send them out. I know I harp on about them but I've had great experiences with brands like Jericho, same factory, much lower price point, but I still end up with a guitar in my hands that has been setup to my tuning and has no flaws. 

To keep this on topic, it's all about your distribution chain, guitars can be built and shipped but if the end of your chain between Abasi and consumer is weak it will show. Do I think people will show the flaws? No. Do I think it will set Abasi back? Absolutely not. But do they need to improve the distribution chain given smaller companies can produce cheaper guitars at higher end quality? 100% and they should be striving for that even if every guitar they sent out was flawless, if you sell a premium product, deliver a premium service.


----------



## kisielk

Jonathan20022 said:


> Ivan just got back to me, it's going to be a return unfortunately.
> 
> I was offered a replacement to be built/delivered by January/February or a full refund, and like I expressed before I'd rather just purchase and have something delivered to me that's readily available.
> 
> I'm not going to beg for it, but I was hoping that they would essentially send me a replacement pickup + some kind of discount to keep it as is. Hopefully they can salvage it and clean it up, then sell it as a b-stock to someone else for cheaper, I'm okay with the refund either way. I'll funnel it into something else I'm sure at this point
> 
> Here's a few pics for awareness of the issues I ran into on mine if they do list it back up.
> - Tip of the headstock finishing issues, revealing veneer?
> - Impression on the tip of the headstock
> - Chip out of the edge of the fretboard
> - Tool marks at the end of the fretboard/pickup cover
> - Paint splatter under the neck finish



Damn that's rough, I've seen ex-rentals for sale in the used section at my local music store that had fewer flaws. Glad they're willing to refund it and hope that they can step up their QC game. I really want to buy one, but being in Canada I don't want to risk getting a lemon and then having to send it back as I'd definitely be out the duty and taxes at least.


----------



## Chevygizmo

WMI makes crap guitars. The question is do you want to spend $2K for an Abasi 8 or $800 for a Schecter 8 or $1500 for an Ormsby. Only difference is the “team” that cleans up the fretwork, files the nut, checks for bad paint, etc. I’m yet to play any good Schechter so this is just my opinion off the rack. They really should be called Shitchter - just awful WM1 junk off the assembly line. Hence the comment. But I know Ormsby saves backups on their runs and check them before shipping and Solar discloses their B stock pretty well on their site with high resolution photos. To be honest I think the Indonesian stuff seemed to play way better from Ibanez, Washburn and Solar. I want Tosin to get my money because the guy busted his ass to get where he is “record sales” are not paying his bills. Just needs to get a QA system and better process. This forum has shown too many issues given the small batches. Hopefully they will get better, show more photos and improve. But just can’t pull the trigger yet especially they keep popping up on Reverb now.


----------



## cip 123

Chevygizmo said:


> WMI makes crap guitars. The question is do you want to spend $2K for an Abasi 8 or $800 for a Schecter 8 or $1500 for an Ormsby. Only difference is the “team” that cleans up the fretwork, files the nut, checks for bad paint, etc. I’m yet to play any good Schechter so this is just my opinion off the rack. They really should be called Shitchter - just awful WM1 junk off the assembly line. Hence the comment. But I know Ormsby saves backups on their runs and check them before shipping and Solar discloses their B stock pretty well on their site with high resolution photos. To be honest I think the Indonesian stuff seemed to play way better from Ibanez, Washburn and Solar. I want Tosin to get my money because the guy busted his ass to get where he is “record sales” are not paying his bills. Just needs to get a QA system and better process. This forum has shown too many issues given the small batches. Hopefully they will get better, show more photos and improve. But just can’t pull the trigger yet especially they keep popping up on Reverb now.


That’s a cool axe you have to grind bud, but I literally gave you an example of a brand that has shipped me WMI guitars with little to no flaws at a fraction of the price. People have received stellar Abasi guitars, and I’ve only ever had 1 Schecter that was bad and it was Indonesian. This isn’t the “sh*t on Schecter/wmi thread”. 


If Tosin busted his ass he’d be the one doing personal QC and setups like Ola but it doesn’t seem like it is given the flaws. 

You list a bunch of companies that you think do a better job but then still bring it round to sh*t on a company that we don’t know the role of 100% just to take blame away from Abasi? It’s his name on the headstock, buck stops with him.


----------



## Chevygizmo

cip 123 said:


> That’s a cool axe you have to grind bud, but I literally gave you an example of a brand that has shipped me WMI guitars with little to no flaws at a fraction of the price. People have received stellar Abasi guitars, and I’ve only ever had 1 Schecter that was bad and it was Indonesian. This isn’t the “sh*t on Schecter/wmi thread”.
> 
> 
> If Tosin busted his ass he’d be the one doing personal QC and setups like Ola but it doesn’t seem like it is given the flaws.
> 
> You list a bunch of companies that you think do a better job but then still bring it round to sh*t on a company that we don’t know the role of 100% just to take blame away from Abasi? It’s his name on the headstock, buck stops with him.


I said the same thing you just said. Go back and reread the thread. Told you it depends on the “team”.


----------



## cip 123

Chevygizmo said:


> I said the same thing you just said. Go back and reread the thread. Told you it depends on the “team”.


So you felt the need to reiterate my point but a bunch of unnecessary slander on brands, and point blame at everyone but Abasi?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Dudes chill out. This is a place for us to make fun of scalpers and help each other with reporting QC issues.


----------



## cip 123

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Dudes chill out. This is a place for us to make fun of scalpers and help each other with reporting QC issues.


I'm pretty chill, just don't like people making a point of blaming WMI or Schecter when this is Abasi's brand. You've seen the small number of new users from this thread alone. It's best if the thread isn't filled hot takes on other companies cause someone got a bad guitar from another brand.


----------



## Chevygizmo

W


cip 123 said:


> I'm pretty chill, just don't like people making a point of blaming WMI or Schecter when this is Abasi's brand. You've seen the small number of new users from this thread alone. It's best if the thread isn't filled hot takes on other companies cause someone got a bad guitar from another brand.


Wah wah


----------



## cip 123

Chevygizmo said:


> W
> 
> Wah wah


You got me there, damn


----------



## Chevygizmo

For what it’s worth. This thread made an Artisides headless purchase that much easier. Just wish I could get the the Abasi/Fodera body on an Artisides.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Chevygizmo said:


> For what it’s worth. This thread made an Artisides headless purchase that much easier. Just wish I could get the the Abasi/Fodera body on an Artisides.



Very good choice. I used my abasi larada money to get an Ibanez UV777BK and part of a RG2027xls.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Very good choice. I used my abasi larada money to get an Ibanez UV777BK and part of a RG2027xls.



I'm considering getting an EBMM JP.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Buyer beware: https://reverb.com/item/36501637-abasi-larada-8-legion-2020-charcoal-burl

This guy has reposted this guitar 2 times each time with a lower price but has changed it to "As-is" Only has one picture and a copy paste description.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I'm considering getting an EBMM JP.



Oh nice! Good choice! I miss my JP15. It was a very good player


----------



## jephjacques

Everyone just ignore chevygizmo, they have no idea what they're talking about


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> Everyone just ignore chevygizmo, they have no idea what they're talking about



Turns out he is Tosin.


----------



## jephjacques

an anti-sockpuppet. extremely galaxy brain play


----------



## Benadon

Man people sure are critical here.
My charcoal burl awaits me at home.


----------



## Gearzilla

I received my legion 8 string in aquaburst a couple of days ago.

The guitar was issue free, and came set up with great action.

One of the lucky ones I guess.

Just wanted to let people know that not every build has issues.

Great guitar!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Awesome to hear about the good builds! Some weren't so lucky. We aren't critical. Just conscious consumers.


----------



## Benadon

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Awesome to hear about the good builds! Some weren't so lucky. We aren't critical. Just conscious consumers.


Oh yeah for sure. It just that shit happens, even a friends mayones custom shop came with many issues such as bad electronics. (4k$)


----------



## Lastronaut

My blue sage 7 came in. Mirrors some of the issues some have spoke about..

Can someone who has one snap a few pictures of the nutt for me please. Particularly on the sides where it meets the headstock/neck.

Not sure if they all look the way mine does....but it dont look right lol. 

I'd like to make sure they dont all look the same way before I go sending ivan an email.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## jyym

Could someone proved some neck width or string spacing measurements?


----------



## BodyNoOrgans

Lastronaut said:


> My blue sage 7 came in. Mirrors some of the issues some have spoke about..
> 
> Can someone who has one snap a few pictures of the nutt for me please. Particularly on the sides where it meets the headstock/neck.
> 
> Not sure if they all look the way mine does....but it dont look right lol.
> 
> I'd like to make sure they dont all look the same way before I go sending ivan an email.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


----------



## BodyNoOrgans

Just got my Larada 8 in today. Overall, it plays very well; great setup and comfortable to hold. I do notice a few blemishes -- the most blaring of which is tool marking near the nut on the treble side of the neck. It doesn't affect the playability or anything, but it is kind of annoying, especially considering my Ormsby Goliath 8 was pretty much in perfect condition and was a few hundred dollars less. 

I'll probably keep it since it sounds so great and plays smoothly, but I definitely see how some could justify returning theirs.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

BodyNoOrgans said:


> Just got my Larada 8 in today. Overall, it plays very well; great setup and comfortable to hold. I do notice a few blemishes -- the most blaring of which is tool marking near the nut on the treble side of the neck. It doesn't affect the playability or anything, but it is kind of annoying, especially considering my Ormsby Goliath 8 was pretty much in perfect condition and was a few hundred dollars less.
> 
> I'll probably keep it since it sounds so great and plays smoothly, but I definitely see how some could justify returning theirs.




Should still email abasi concepts and let them know the issue. Reporting issues to them directly is the only way these will improve for the next run


----------



## BodyNoOrgans

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Should still email abasi concepts and let them know the issue. Reporting issues to them directly is the only way these will improve for the next run


Yep, already emailed them! Still happy to support the company -- hopefully they get some QC issues solved for the next run.


----------



## Lastronaut

Thank you so much.


----------



## sym30l1c

Not sure if already posted. This one has some minor issues with fretwork and finish near the nut.


----------



## bassisace

Benadon said:


> Man people sure are critical here.
> My charcoal burl awaits me at home.





Benadon said:


> Oh yeah for sure. It just that shit happens, even a friends mayones custom shop came with many issues such as bad electronics. (4k$)



I hear you, but I think the main point here is the proportion of builds with QC problems from Abasi seems high compared to other brands. 

Hell, even their website’s features some Legion pics with some finish issues.


----------



## AltecGreen

The brand seems cursed. It almost doesn't matter who builds them.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Another scalper has appeared. 2600 with 100 shipping for Oceanburst 8. sUcH a GrEaT dEaL


----------



## Jonathan20022

bassisace said:


> I hear you, but I think the main point here is the proportion of builds with QC problems from Abasi seems high compared to other brands.
> 
> Hell, even their website’s features some Legion pics with some finish issues.



Guys, this isn't a brand to brand thing.

WMI is making instruments for several manufacturers, it's the same set of hands making different instruments for different brands. So the rate of failure is consistent across all brands, the point of having QC is to send back the duds to WMI in Korea for them to correct or rebuild the duds. You don't need to wait and find out if brand new company X/Y/Z that is having WMI build instruments is going to have defects or issues or not. WMI instruments will always have some blemishes and so will any import brand, period.

This is a failure of Abasi's QC team not sending back guitars over these issues. Ormsby/Schecter/PRS/etc all receive dud instruments, but they get sent back.

Brands have their own QC operations, and some of them are great and others are learning to be great. Saying Abasi has a higher failure rate is objectively wrong, when all the other brands do is not send out duds they catch to clients. It's not rocket science, think will a little more nuance.


----------



## spudmunkey

Jonathan20022 said:


> Brands have their own QC operations, and some of them are great and others are learning to be great. Saying Abasi has a higher failure rate is objectively wrong, when all the other brands do is not send out duds they catch to clients. It's not rocket science, think will a little more nuance.



Whether they are coming from the factory with more issues due to less QC from the shop, or have the same amount of issues as everyone else but they go through less QC on this side of the ocean, the end result for the customer is the same.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Jonathan20022 said:


> Guys, this isn't a brand to brand thing.
> 
> WMI is making instruments for several manufacturers, it's the same set of hands making different instruments for different brands. So the rate of failure is consistent across all brands, the point of having QC is to send back the duds to WMI in Korea for them to correct or rebuild the duds. You don't need to wait and find out if brand new company X/Y/Z that is having WMI build instruments is going to have defects or issues or not. WMI instruments will always have some blemishes and so will any import brand, period.
> 
> This is a failure of Abasi's QC team not sending back guitars over these issues. Ormsby/Schecter/PRS/etc all receive dud instruments, but they get sent back.
> 
> Brands have their own QC operations, and some of them are great and others are learning to be great. Saying Abasi has a higher failure rate is objectively wrong, when all the other brands do is not send out duds they catch to clients. It's not rocket science, think will a little more nuance.



I think that they lacked on QC because they felt rushed by remarks made earlier in the year about having Legions out October/November of this year. I think they sent out the duds to get instruments in the hands of the people because they didn't have enough time to wait for the perfect builds. And to make that paper for future runs.

It is just sad this will stain their name.


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Another scalper has appeared. 2600 with 100 shipping for Oceanburst 8. sUcH a GrEaT dEaL


 
And it’s already sold. This is what will continue to drive the price up.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

CW7 said:


> And it’s already sold. This is what will continue to drive the price up.



Oh nice. Overpriced gambling. If you buy secondhand, you can't return it to Abasi Concepts.


----------



## BodyNoOrgans

CW7 said:


> And it’s already sold. This is what will continue to drive the price up.


Insane. I paid that much for a brand new 7-string Majesty.


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Oh nice. Overpriced gambling. If you buy secondhand, you can't return it to Abasi Concepts.


Exactly- people scalpers preying on this “fear” of “omg I may never snag one in these random drops- I better just pay a little more and get one now...”.


----------



## Chevygizmo

R


jephjacques said:


> Everyone just ignore chevygizmo, they have no idea what they're talking about


 right. Here’s the fanboy. God forbid I have an opinion.


----------



## Chevygizmo

More issues with the nut and fretwork because the Abasi team did not QA the work which is very resource intensive to do by the way. But I don’t what I’m talking about even though I’ve only said this before the last drop


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Abasi Guitars Larada 8 Legion Limited 2020 Blue Sage
https://reverb.com/item/36602519-ab...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=36602519


This is ducking fisgusting


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Abasi Guitars Larada 8 Legion Limited 2020 Blue Sage
> https://reverb.com/item/36602519-ab...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=36602519
> 
> 
> This is ducking fisgusting


Yup- “I got two to decide which I liked better” is code for “yeah, I bought up a couple so I could flip one after they sold out for profit.” Sleazy AF.


----------



## budda

Supply and demand is a bitch.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

budda said:


> Supply and demand is a bitch.



Lol I feel bad for whoever pays 2800 and 120 shipping for a wmi guitar


----------



## budda

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Lol I feel bad for whoever pays 2800 and 120 shipping for a wmi guitar



Only if its not a good guitar


----------



## CW7

budda said:


> Only if its not a good guitar


I think it’s safe to say the term “diminishing returns” is applicable here.


----------



## budda

CW7 said:


> I think it’s safe to say the term “diminishing returns” is applicable here.



It always is. No argument from me.


----------



## CW7

budda said:


> It always is. No argument from me.


At least in the midst of all the idiot scalpers there was one same person who listed one at a reasonable 1700 bucks. If only that were the norm. Once can dream .


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

CW7 said:


> At least in the midst of all the idiot scalpers there was one same person who listed one at a reasonable 1700 bucks. If only that were the norm. Once can dream .



I was talking to that one. He’s a very cool dude!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Don't hate the player, hate the game. 

That game is the hype machine y'all are aiding and abetting.


----------



## Vyn

The Abasi hype has been nice because it means that other builders/manufacturers that I'm actually interested in have stock in at the moment haha!


----------



## Randy

AltecGreen said:


> The brand seems cursed. It almost doesn't matter who builds them.



As stated in here some time back, the design is a workflow nightmare. Each subsequent revision seems to become more assembly-line ready, but things like the contoured and two tone headstock add another few steps from what a typical guitar (think Telecaster) require in the build/finish process. 

The more things that have to be done after the guitar leaves the mill and anything that has to be done by hand (like taping the paint lines for headstock) are another chance for imperfections, multiplied by how many of them there are on the guitar, then multiplied by how many they make in an hour/day/week.

Cool af guitars, I want one, but it's not something I'd expect to pull off in volume without regular blems etc.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> As stated in here some time back, the design is a workflow nightmare. Each subsequent revision seems to become more assembly-line ready, but things like the contoured and two tone headstock add another few steps from what a typical guitar (think Telecaster) require in the build/finish process.
> 
> The more things that have to be done after the guitar leaves the mill and anything that has to be done by hand (like taping the paint lines for headstock) are another chance for imperfections, multiplied by how many of them there are on the guitar, then multiplied by how many they make in an hour/day/week.
> 
> Cool af guitars, I want one, but it's not something I'd expect to pull off in volume without regular blems etc.



Eh, it's not like this is some small time builder, it's one of the top five guitar OEMs in world.

It just seems like there's very little QC being done after everything is shipped over. If there is, they're either getting a mountain of bad ones that we're not seeing, or it's more like the Rondo Music school of QC: "hey, is it the right color? Yeah, then ship it".

I don't think this is a manufacturer issue per se. About every step of the way "management" has shown how unprepared they are for running a guitar brand.

We've kinda hit Hanlon's razor here.


----------



## MrWulf

honestly i'm struggle to think why would you want to buy an Abasi at this point. It is not going to give you Tosin's thumping ability and technical skill but who am I kidding


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Remember that Gibson video where they drove over a bunch of guitars with a digger? Yeah that’s what I’m waiting for


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, it's not like this is some small time builder, it's one of the top five guitar OEMs in world.
> 
> It just seems like there's very little QC being done after everything is shipped over. If there is, they're either getting a mountain of bad ones that we're not seeing, or it's more like the Rondo Music school of QC: "hey, is it the right color? Yeah, than ship it".
> 
> I don't think this is a manufacturer issue per se. About every step of the way "management" has shown how unprepared they are for running a guitar brand.
> 
> We've kinda hit Hanlon's razor here.



Oh agreed, I'm just saying that if you're going to be spotty on QC, the more steps in the build process the more winkles you're gonna have. The Rondo comparison is apt, the simpler guitars in their range are more consistent, the features you tack on, the uglier they get. I've literally never put my hands on a Douglas Scope that was even playable, but the ALs and tele copies are pretty consistent.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Oh agreed, I'm just saying that if you're going to be spotty on QC, the more steps in the build process the more winkles you're gonna have. The Rondo comparison is apt, the simpler guitars in their range are more consistent, the features you tack on, the ugliest they get. I've literally never put my hands on a Douglas Scope that was even playable, but the ALs and tele copies are pretty consistent.



I just don't see a lot about these that are overly complex, even the headstock, and the problems all look like stuff that's rushed and sloppy vs. genuinely difficult to pull off. 

It looks like they're all just mishandled at some point. It would explain the headstock finish issues and various digs, dings, and gouges.


----------



## Randy

Ah, I didn't consider that.


----------



## kisielk

MrWulf said:


> honestly i'm struggle to think why would you want to buy an Abasi at this point. It is not going to give you Tosin's thumping ability and technical skill but who am I kidding


From an ergonomics and visual perspective it’s really appealing, there’s just a lot of good ideas in the design that are put together by someone with a lot of playing experience. If they can achieve good execution I would totally get one. 

I’m not even aware of another brand that does the similar narrow spaced 8 string designs, and there’s not a lot to choose from in non-strat shapes in the first place.


----------



## jyym

What is the actual nut width and string spacing?


----------



## BlackMastodon

Randy said:


> Oh agreed, I'm just saying that if you're going to be spotty on QC, the more steps in the build process the more winkles you're gonna have. The Rondo comparison is apt, the simpler guitars in their range are more consistent, the features you tack on, the uglier they get. I've literally never put my hands on a Douglas Scope that was even playable, but the ALs and tele copies are pretty consistent.


I wonder if the added complexity of these builds means they can't do bigger batches, and then suddenly a huge chunk or even the majority of them would be considered "unsaleable" by normal standards so they lower the QC bar to allow cosmetic issues so long as they're playable just to be able to meet some of the demand. /tinfoilhat


----------



## cip 123

BlackMastodon said:


> I wonder if the added complexity of these builds means they can't do bigger batches, and then suddenly a huge chunk or even the majority of them would be considered "unsaleable" by normal standards so they lower the QC bar to allow cosmetic issues so long as they're playable just to be able to meet some of the demand. /tinfoilhat


More likely they don’t have the capital to do bigger runs so opt for the smaller “exclusive drops” but they probably don’t have the margins to send guitars back this we end up where we are


----------



## HellaSickTight

cip 123 said:


> More likely they don’t have the capital to do bigger runs so opt for the smaller “exclusive drops” but they probably don’t have the margins to send guitars back this we end up where we are


I think it’s exactly this. I feel like Tosin lost a lot of money on the falbo endeavor, and this latest batch cost under half a million dollars not counting R&D and business operations, or so if you do some loose math. Like that’s a lot of money! I can totally see how they don’t have the resources to be sending back 1/3 of their instruments at this stage in their growth. I Honestly can’t see 33% of the AAL money funding this in its entirety for very long, they must have raised VC from somewhere else, I feel like that’s what Ivan brought to the table. And I can’t see the margins on the legion series being over like $600. Honestly I think their best move from here on out is to get Tosin in front of these guitars for a personal QC like Solar before they ship out. Show us a photo of him checking out 200 guitars that just showed up, like the pictures of him signing the J series.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

What if. The ones that released were the 1/3 good ones?


----------



## Jonathan20022

There's no way that you just point blank lose your funding if you send back defective builds to WMI due to reasonable rejection. If they had to send 50 back (Once again, made up number for the sake of discussion), due to reasonable rejection over flaws. They can expect to get 50 replacement guitars for those send backs.

There's countless layers of logistics behind ordering batches of guitars, and I'm not going to make blanket assumptions about how they operate. But I feel like people are reaching pretty hard here considering that Abasi is contracting 3 separate manufacturers to develop and supply batches of instruments in varying sizes.

If Grover/Japan/WMI sends Abasi an instrument with issues, these parties don't just pocket the money. They have to rebuild these instruments to be up to standards, it's in Abasi's best interest to send back instruments and not have negative PR floating around.


----------



## BlackMastodon

cip 123 said:


> More likely they don’t have the capital to do bigger runs so opt for the smaller “exclusive drops” but they probably don’t have the margins to send guitars back this we end up where we are


This is a much better way of wording what I was trying to get at.


----------



## I play music

kisielk said:


> From an ergonomics and visual perspective it’s really appealing, there’s just a lot of good ideas in the design that are put together by someone with a lot of playing experience. If they can achieve good execution I would totally get one.
> 
> I’m not even aware of another brand that does the similar narrow spaced 8 string designs, and there’s not a lot to choose from in non-strat shapes in the first place.


That "ergonomics" nonsense claim needs to stop finally. There is nothing more ergonomic about this than an Ibanez RG 8 string. Several people have even confirmed that the design tends to be neck heavy. If you look at the people playing them at NAMM then you don't tell me that their playing position looks anything ergonomic. 
Design is matter of taste of course. First time I thought wtf it looks like mobby dick. I think I can get used to it but still there are better designs. 
Most 8 strings are superstrat shaped because single cut 8 strings are usually just not the most "ergonomic" thing. If you don't want something stratty, check out all the headless 8 strings.


----------



## Daniel Leu

My Overcast Legion 7 (finally) came in today. I gave it a pretty thorough going-over and have been playing it for the past couple hours. I've got to say I'm impressed. No flaws in the finish, neck is super straight and action slammed down even past where I would usually set it with no buzz. I'm still getting used to the pickups but they're definitely more versatile than I thought, which was my biggest fear as I usually play clean stuff. I was fully prepared to send this thing back but can't find a single reason to at all. I realize there are people that weren't as fortunate (or have better standards?) but for now I'm keeping it. I'm not much of a metal player so I can't say how these compare to other 7's besides the beat up RG7321 that I've had on loan for the past few months. 

Video here for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5g_2IhWrR/


----------



## Benadon

Daniel Leu said:


> My Overcast Legion 7 (finally) came in today. I gave it a pretty thorough going-over and have been playing it for the past couple hours. I've got to say I'm impressed. No flaws in the finish, neck is super straight and action slammed down even past where I would usually set it with no buzz. I'm still getting used to the pickups but they're definitely more versatile than I thought, which was my biggest fear as I usually play clean stuff. I was fully prepared to send this thing back but can't find a single reason to at all. I realize there are people that weren't as fortunate (or have better standards?) but for now I'm keeping it. I'm not much of a met
> 
> 
> Daniel Leu said:
> 
> 
> 
> My Overcast Legion 7 (finally) came in today. I gave it a pretty thorough going-over and have been playing it for the past couple hours. I've got to say I'm impressed. No flaws in the finish, neck is super straight and action slammed down even past where I would usually set it with no buzz. I'm still getting used to the pickups but they're definitely more versatile than I thought, which was my biggest fear as I usually play clean stuff. I was fully prepared to send this thing back but can't find a single reason to at all. I realize there are people that weren't as fortunate (or have better standards?) but for now I'm keeping it. I'm not much of a metal player so I can't say how these compare to other 7's besides the beat up RG7321 that I've had on loan for the past few months.
> 
> Video here for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5g_2IhWrR/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> al player so I can't say how these compare to other 7's besides the beat up RG7321 that I've had on loan for the past few months.
> 
> Video here for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5g_2IhWrR/
Click to expand...

Brilliant, great to hear.
Mine awaits me at home, tommorow i will get to see how mine turns out. Will post here.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Daniel Leu said:


> My Overcast Legion 7 (finally) came in today. I gave it a pretty thorough going-over and have been playing it for the past couple hours. I've got to say I'm impressed. No flaws in the finish, neck is super straight and action slammed down even past where I would usually set it with no buzz. I'm still getting used to the pickups but they're definitely more versatile than I thought, which was my biggest fear as I usually play clean stuff. I was fully prepared to send this thing back but can't find a single reason to at all. I realize there are people that weren't as fortunate (or have better standards?) but for now I'm keeping it. I'm not much of a metal player so I can't say how these compare to other 7's besides the beat up RG7321 that I've had on loan for the past few months.
> 
> Video here for anyone interested: https://www.instagram.com/p/CG5g_2IhWrR/



That's dope man congrats, I would have loved to get a good example of an Overcast 7.

Personally if mine only had the tool marks at the end of the fretboard + the scratched pickup. I would have asked for a replacement neck pickup and just kept the guitar and sanded down the high E saddle to get the action a bit lower.

It's the other stuff that made it a return for me but glad yours came out great


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Responding to this here as I didn't want to distract from dude's NGD. 



2wheel_Ted said:


> New Larada Legion and first-time 8-string guitar owner as well.
> 
> Great write up. I think your perspective on quality is well thought out and I agree, that having received my Legion, I don't see why I'd pay "more" for a J or Master series, strictly speaking from a play-ability and feature standpoint. That said, not all motivation is rational(GAS), and if there was the perfect color in either of those more expensive series, AND if they were actually available, I might bite if $ allows.
> 
> Speaking of minor defects, it's interesting how different the context is with this genre/community as to what constitutes a defect or blemish. I'm not arguing with any of the criticisms, just pointing out how the customer QC evaluation seems to be so different compared to other guitar genres/communities that I'm more in sync with.
> 
> For example, I've played (not owned) several Selmer style gypsy jazz acoustic guitars that are 3-4 times the cost of this Legion we just bought. These were all hand-made by small luthiers in N. America, France, and Spain, who maybe make ~30-150 max units TOTAL a year. Of course, the exclusivity, exotic woods, and individual luthier voodoo that makes them unique, special, achieving some magical tone and feel are all contributing factors to the price.
> 
> However, when there is a small "blemish" in the finish or visible evidence of these guitars being completely hand-made and not machined, that community usually embraces it as an example of the "human" involvement in creating the instrument. Of course, tone really is everything in that genre, so that helps to forgive these hand-made "quirks". Funnily, buyers often look for the best example of a batch, expecting that there be differences within a run.
> 
> Again, I'm not arguing against what folks in other communities like this one define as excellent quality or defective. I'm just musing the different points of views on the matter.
> 
> Interesting.



There are plenty of brands that cater to certain esoteric concepts of "old world craftsmanship" or "handmade" and market a more "rustic" instrument, and I actually really appreciate many of them, but I don't feel that these fall into that category. They're mostly factory made in large, modern facilities, even Grover's operation is more modern than you'd think. That's not a bad thing, as stuff like CNC mills, precision tools, and modern finishing compounds make great instruments. 

Some years back there was a guy, Wishnevsky, who basically whittled out super primitive bass guitars under the Wish Bass brand. When I say "primitive" you had to pay extra for a truss rod. They were rough, typically difficult instruments to play, but they had quite the cult following because folks appreciated that they were made with "love" and by hand (tool marks included).


----------



## Benadon

alright, my take on my larada 8.
the bad:
i could spot a small toolmark on the headstock, nothing major.
the nut is just not 100% pretty, and has a weird white spot near of that which i dont seem to be able to take off.
the action is a bit high to my likings but there is some room to lower it.
the guitar is a bit neck heavy.
the 5 way switch is not flewless.
the neck is a bit to thin for my likings.
and i am not a big fun of the shape it just doesnt sit on me very well, i think it might be becuese i am relatively small person

the good: the guitar sounds really really good, espacially position 2.
the guitar is fairly small which i dig very much
and a couple more features that everyone knows about multiscale etc.

overall i had my expectations pretty high, and it just didnt reach them. could be me could be not.
i feel like i could get away with a much cheaper instrument say ibanez prestige.

and i must say that my experience with different guitars is not that high.
did play some bodens in a shop and certein schecters but not much other the that.
(ibanez rg8, harley benton dullahan, harley benton fusion 2, nk headless and some personal crafted guitar which wasnt great either)
i try to give her some time, since it is not a bad guitar at all. but i just not c100% set on it as of yet.
edit: weird hissing noise on b string.
godamn it.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Legion 7 up for $1600. I sure it will go instantly.


----------



## Lastronaut

So I figured I'd go ahead and share my experience with my blue sage 7. I contacted Ivan and will be returning the guitar. Nothing to crazy was "wrong" with it. Just to many little things for the price point.

Initial impressions are good. It's a striking instrument to look at. Sounds great. Plays great. Neck feels super comfortable. Alittle neck heavy. But in the classical position it is money.

The bad is mostly what everyone else has already been pointing out. The paint around the headstock. Tool marks here and there. Mine had an odd spot on the back under the control cavity where it looked like it didnt get enough of the color sprayed on it and looked splotchy. It was hard to photograph but I tired. The fretboard also has these odd looking dots. Ivan told me that this is normal for ebony. I wasnt aware of this. And I'm not sure if that's accurate but it was off putting. The nutt looks awful IMO. And I also noticed 2 small...what look to be cracks in the neck where the neck meets the body. I couldnt really feel them. I dont know if the neck has any sort of finish on it. Cant say if they are finish cracks or not. Either way they are there.

With all that said Ivan seems like a good dude. And he took care of me. This post is purely to let other people who would consider buying one second hand or buy one in the future what they may or may not be getting into. I hope that by sending emails and letting Ivan and the Abasi crew know these issues they can look for ways to correct them on future builds. I attached some photos

(Edit)Also I failed to mention my 5 way was a bit wonky and one time while running through a helix on a clean channel I pulled the knob to engaged voice two and it squealed pretty loudly the whole time until I pushed the knob back in. It only happened once. So idk what the deal was.


----------



## spudmunkey

FWIW, yeah...I've seen spots similar to that on ebony before, and more so more recently.

How long before a builder starts selling "leopard ebony"?


----------



## MiPwnYew

Why do the nuts look terrible on almost every single one that has been posted? Definitely isn't what I'd like to see on a guitar at these price points.


----------



## Lastronaut

MiPwnYew said:


> Why do the nuts look terrible on almost every single one that has been posted? Definitely isn't what I'd like to see on a guitar at these price points.



Maybe they were all done on a friday right after lunch? That's the only explanation I can come up with lol.


----------



## drezdin

I'm pretty happy with the fit and finish on my 8. I did notice some noise in the 2 and 4 switch positions. I thought the Fishmans were noiseless. I'm I wrong?


----------



## HellaSickTight

drezdin said:


> I'm pretty happy with the fit and finish on my 8. I did notice some noise in the 2 and 4 switch positions. I thought the Fishmans were noiseless. I'm I wrong?


Those are coil split settings. So when you split coils the humbucker isn’t “bucking the hum”. That’s normal to hear a bit more noise.


----------



## drezdin

HellaSickTight said:


> Those are coil split settings. So when you split coils the humbucker isn’t “bucking the hum”. That’s normal to hear a bit more noise.


Thank you Sir!


----------



## HellaSickTight

drezdin said:


> Thank you Sir!


Position 2 is my absolute favorite! Through the Cory Wong or Plini plug-in WHOOEEEEEE sounds super glassy and awesome!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

This has been quiet for a little bit. Everything okay with people who got their Larada Legions?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

SpaceT Champagne and Sage Legion popped up on Reverb (again).


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> SpaceT Champagne and Sage Legion popped up on Reverb (again).



I have stopped following that. Not much we can do. Anyone that reads this thread will be informed of if they should pay the marked up price.


----------



## Vroth88

Got my charcoal legion 8 a phew days ago, sent to iceland and no issues here (for my taste), let me know if you want to know any details


----------



## HellaSickTight

Hi friends, I’ve taken another week, contacted Ivan, and decided to return my Legion. I showed it to some more experienced players who all agree that besides the paint blemishes, the nut construction is just egregious, it’s full of filler, has several gaps, and is cut poorly. Definitely something I overlooked and didn’t even take pictures of the first time around. I feel like any honest resale of this instrument is shot. I wouldn’t want to sell this to someone, therefore I shouldn’t own it for myself.

You all saw how in love with it I was, how great I thought it sounded and felt, I REALLY REALLY tried to make this work. Even going as far as looking into refinishing it and replacing the nut. Eventually I realized I couldn’t look at it without being sad and it feeling cheap.

I’m quite disappointed as I was just about to leave on a month-long recording trip with a friend and was just so excited to bring this instrument with me. I’ve asked for a full refund as I don’t want to wait until next year for a replacement Legion. I’m considering a master series or an Aristides H/O at this point as I want to make sure I get the perfect instrument for me.

With sadness and updated nut pics - Hella Sick Tight


----------



## Frostbite

HellaSickTight said:


> Hi friends, I’ve taken another week, contacted Ivan, and decided to return my Legion. I showed it to some more experienced players who all agree that besides the paint blemishes, the nut construction is just egregious, it’s full of filler, has several gaps, and is cut poorly. Definitely something I overlooked and didn’t even take pictures of the first time around. I feel like any honest resale of this instrument is shot. I wouldn’t want to sell this to someone, therefore I shouldn’t own it for myself.
> 
> You all saw how in love with it I was, how great I thought it sounded and felt, I REALLY REALLY tried to make this work. Even going as far as looking into refinishing it and replacing the nut. Eventually I realized I couldn’t look at it without being sad and it feeling cheap.
> 
> I’m quite disappointed as I was just about to leave on a month-long recording trip with a friend and was just so excited to bring this instrument with me. I’ve asked for a full refund as I don’t want to wait until next year for a replacement Legion. I’m considering a master series or an Aristides H/O at this point as I want to make sure I get the perfect instrument for me.
> 
> With sadness and updated nut pics - Hella Sick Tight


Jesus Christ that's unacceptable. I REALLY want to buy one of these but I've really not heard a single good thing about any of the Legion guitars. The paint job on the headstock is a already a huge deal breaker for me but yeah there's an insane amount of filler under that nut. Abasi needs to get their shit in order. If WMI can put out the basically flawless guitars I've seen and played out of Schecter this should be a non-issue for them so it has to be on Abasi and what they're deeming acceptable.


----------



## Vroth88

HellaSickTight said:


> Hi friends, I’ve taken another week, contacted Ivan, and decided to return my Legion. I showed it to some more experienced players who all agree that besides the paint blemishes, the nut construction is just egregious, it’s full of filler, has several gaps, and is cut poorly. Definitely something I overlooked and didn’t even take pictures of the first time around. I feel like any honest resale of this instrument is shot. I wouldn’t want to sell this to someone, therefore I shouldn’t own it for myself.
> 
> You all saw how in love with it I was, how great I thought it sounded and felt, I REALLY REALLY tried to make this work. Even going as far as looking into refinishing it and replacing the nut. Eventually I realized I couldn’t look at it without being sad and it feeling cheap.
> 
> I’m quite disappointed as I was just about to leave on a month-long recording trip with a friend and was just so excited to bring this instrument with me. I’ve asked for a full refund as I don’t want to wait until next year for a replacement Legion. I’m considering a master series or an Aristides H/O at this point as I want to make sure I get the perfect instrument for me.
> 
> With sadness and updated nut pics - Hella Sick Tight



Wow thats bad, sucks to hear man. I would have done the same thing, best wishes


----------



## HellaSickTight

Vroth88 said:


> Wow thats bad, sucks to hear man. I would have done the same thing, best wishes


Yeaaaaa I’m quite embarrassed I didn’t notice it for the first couple days, but then other people started posting pictures of their nuts and I was like wait mine looks way worse than that. The nut on my production Strandberg, my $500 danelectro and both Music Mans are flawless compared.

I am so thankful for everyone here, this is a great example of how sharing these photos and issues really helps everyone out as a whole.


----------



## jephjacques

Wow, that one never should have made it out of the factory.


----------



## Demiurge

That nut- WTF. All hands on deck trying to make a unique design but nobody shows up on "make a flat surface for the nut" day.


----------



## bassisace

HellaSickTight said:


> Hi friends, I’ve taken another week, contacted Ivan, and decided to return my Legion. I showed it to some more experienced players who all agree that besides the paint blemishes, the nut construction is just egregious, it’s full of filler, has several gaps, and is cut poorly. Definitely something I overlooked and didn’t even take pictures of the first time around. I feel like any honest resale of this instrument is shot. I wouldn’t want to sell this to someone, therefore I shouldn’t own it for myself.
> 
> You all saw how in love with it I was, how great I thought it sounded and felt, I REALLY REALLY tried to make this work. Even going as far as looking into refinishing it and replacing the nut. Eventually I realized I couldn’t look at it without being sad and it feeling cheap.
> 
> I’m quite disappointed as I was just about to leave on a month-long recording trip with a friend and was just so excited to bring this instrument with me. I’ve asked for a full refund as I don’t want to wait until next year for a replacement Legion. I’m considering a master series or an Aristides H/O at this point as I want to make sure I get the perfect instrument for me.
> 
> With sadness and updated nut pics - Hella Sick Tight



That sucks man. I hope you get a speedy refund. Unfortunately it seems all production lines at Abasi have horrible QC. When they put out good builds, they are great, but the odds of getting a crap build are way too high. Both masters series and japanese production lines also have a lot of crap builds reported. I hope they can rectify their QC for future runs.


----------



## 2wheel_Ted

Wow. That’s nuts (pun intended). What’s really crazy to me is the QC inconsistency between your guitar and what I received (Legion Charcoal Burl). I’m not going to make assumptions, but going by the photos of the nut on your guitar and looking at the one on mine, they look like they came from two different factories. 

Sympathies to you. That’s disappointing.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Ok the upside, you can sign off your posts with “Hella Sick Tight” which is really amazing


----------



## Chevygizmo

This is what happens when you take time from QCing guitars to QCing coffee flavors


----------



## Nick Pipla

Hey guys.

Want to start this off by saying I am a huge fan of Abasi and AAL, etc. but:

I bought a Larada Legion 7 in Overcast and I am currently in the process of trying to get a refund. At first sight, loved it. Case is sick. Felt awesome, played awesome. (For the 2 hours i've played it.) 
It's been sitting in its case since I received it because i've been working a lot of hours. The other night, I pulled it out to fiddle with it a bit. Upon putting my guitar strap on it, I noticed the insane crack in the neck (see attached photos.) I know this is straight from the factory, and I am sure it was here all along. It's on the underside of the neck, so I probably just missed it when I first received it / was excited.

Another Note: The nut on my guitar is also very ugly, as many others have noted. Looks really bad, not even sure how it passed inspection. 
Paint job is "mostly" clean, but some blems here or there. This bothers me the least.

This is just so unacceptable to me for this price range. I've owned Mayones, Skervesen, Suhr, Ibanez Prestige, Ormsby, Jackson USA, Vandermeij, Schecter USA, strandberg, etc. and not a single one of these had the flaws that this instrument has.

I'm really hoping I get a full refund, that's what i'm asking for. I've honestly owned $900 guitars that didn't have blatant extreme flaws like this. I would love to see some real quality stuff come out of Abasi Concepts, but thus far, not impressed.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Oof the saga continues


----------



## mastapimp

My expectations for any import coming outta WMI has never been high, even with the boosted prices in this model and things like the KMIII, but these paint errors and shitty fit/finish issues are ridiculous. These are all B-stock flaws and should never be passed off as new, full price instruments. Seems like half the guitars posted on this forum from the last run are going back. Whoever's doing acceptance QC has gotta go...this isn't working out.


----------



## Dayn

Great, now I'm sad again.


----------



## Nick Pipla

Has anybody that asked for a return got a response yet? I emailed 2-3 days ago and haven't heard back about a refund.
I don't see how they _couldn't_ issue a refund for flaws like this...I'm a little nervous that $2100 of mine is in the wind, but i'm crossing my fingers.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I’ll take one of someone’s hands if they want, was waiting for a six but I’ll learn a seven


----------



## Nick Pipla

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I’ll take one of someone’s hands if they want, was waiting for a six but I’ll learn a seven


I have an overcast 7 if you want to work out a deal. Obviously i'd take money off for factory blemishes.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Hahaha because of covid ive no money, one special guitar coming in then I’m taking a break, it’ll be fun imma post a ngd for it


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Nick Pipla I’m guessing they are swamped these days. I’m sure they’ll refund 100%.


----------



## Nick Pipla

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @Nick Pipla I’m guessing they are swamped these days. I’m sure they’ll refund 100%.



I sure hope so man. I am not upset, just disappointed that they're asking this much money for something that has really, really bad QC issues.


----------



## bassisace

I hope all of you with faulty builds are leaving product reviews my their website so future customers are aware of the issues.

@Nick Pipla Yeah, really unacceptable for a 700+$ instrument. It’s not as if this is their 1st year in business. They don’t seem to have learned much from their past mistakes.


----------



## yngve knudsen

MY NUTS!


----------



## Nick Pipla

bassisace said:


> I hope all of you with faulty builds are leaving product reviews my their website so future customers are aware of the issues.
> 
> @Nick Pipla Yeah, really unacceptable for a 700+$ instrument. It’s not as if this is their 1st year in business. They don’t seem to have learned much from their past mistakes.



Yeah, I was going to say. My first "real" guitar was an Ibanez Iron Label and it did not have these issues. Think I gave like 800 for it.


----------



## 2wheel_Ted

mastapimp said:


> My expectations for any import coming outta WMI has never been high, even with the boosted prices in this model and things like the KMIII, but these paint errors and shitty fit/finish issues are ridiculous. These are all B-stock flaws and should never be passed off as new, full price instruments. Seems like half the guitars posted on this forum from the last run are going back. Whoever's doing acceptance QC has gotta go...this isn't working out.


These flaws are definitely B-stock level. I know that Solar sells models with cosmetic blemishes but at discounted prices. Maybe Abasi Concepts will do the same with these returned units. 

So far, it seems like most of the problem units are painted models. I’ve yet to see any posts with flawed nuts or headstock paint on burl or aquaburst models. Then again, it’s still relatively early. Still, a crack in the neck is what it is: bad.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I’ll take one of someone’s hands if they want, was waiting for a six but I’ll learn a seven





Jack McGoldrick said:


> Hahaha because of covid ive no money, one special guitar coming in then I’m taking a break, it’ll be fun imma post a ngd for it





Also that is a disappointing set of pictures about the guitar's nut. I don't recall mine being that sloppy, and I would have photographed it if I had noticed something for sure.

I highly doubt they're walking with your money, they received mine back on the 30th and I haven't heard back yet. If I don't get the refund notice by friday I'll hit Ivan up about it.


----------



## SpaceDock

Really disappointed to see this....


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Head of Abasi Concepts QC:


----------



## Chris Bowsman

People are talking about $900 guitars having better quality nuts than these. 

For comparison’s sake, here’s my daughter’s Squier Strat Mini. It was $99.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Is the overcast 7 on the verb one of you guys?


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

Chris Bowsman said:


> People are talking about $900 guitars having better quality nuts than these.
> 
> For comparison’s sake, here’s my daughter’s Squier Strat Mini. It was $99.
> View attachment 86657
> View attachment 86658



I'm assuming the $99 squier also doesnt have cracks in the neck.


----------



## Vyn

Read the last 15-odd pages again.

Where does Abasi Concepts go from here?


----------



## Chris Bowsman

FromTheMausoleum said:


> I'm assuming the $99 squier also doesnt have cracks in the neck.



Nah, no real finish flaws to speak of, either.


----------



## Mathemagician

Chris Bowsman said:


> People are talking about $900 guitars having better quality nuts than these.
> 
> For comparison’s sake, here’s my daughter’s Squier Strat Mini. It was $99.
> View attachment 86657
> View attachment 86658



Yep, I’ve played MIT/MIC Jackson’s & EVH (Fender) and been like “hot damn this rips!”.

These issues are ALL $250+ discount B-stocks at a bare minimum.


----------



## bassisace

Yeah, I agree, but even then considering Solar B stocks have minor scratches.

These damaged Abasis have zero resale value.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Nick Pipla said:


> Has anybody that asked for a return got a response yet? I emailed 2-3 days ago and haven't heard back about a refund.
> I don't see how they _couldn't_ issue a refund for flaws like this...I'm a little nervous that $2100 of mine is in the wind, but i'm crossing my fingers.


Hey friend! I wouldn’t stress, Ivan has been an extremely apologetic and classy dude. He’s offered all of us full refunds, but he takes a couple days to respond.

For all the QC issues I have heard zero complaints about customer service in regards to returns.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I agree, their customer service is excellent.


----------



## Vroth88

After HellaSickTight and others shared their issues with the nut I decided to use my recently acquired micro lens camera (new phone) and take a better look, my shitty eyes and not well lit room didnt help me much hehe

I finally noticed that my nut is not so great either, see the photos
View media item 3489View media item 3488View media item 3487View media item 3486
The other side of the nut was well done though (no pictures at the moment)

But what I also just realised right now is when I bend G string it moves around in the nut and falls into some creeve thus changing pitch while bent until I release it..very annoying and just unplayable for my taste, would have to get this fixed

I feel foolish for not seeing these things sooner and wanted this instrument to be my go-to 8 string guitar, but at this point I dont feel happy with what I got

Really love the guitar besides these issues and mabye I wanted it too much to be fine to notice these things, but now I don't feel that I received an instrument of it's value. I will contact them for a refund

Thank you all for sharing, it really changes everything and made me actually look into this more closely!


----------



## Fred the Shred

Your pics are returning a "You do not have permission to view media within this album." error. Can you review the album or links?


----------



## Vroth88

Fred the Shred said:


> Your pics are returning a "You do not have permission to view media within this album." error. Can you review the album or links?



Ah my bad, should be fixed now


----------



## Demiurge

Vyn said:


> Read the last 15-odd pages again.
> 
> Where does Abasi Concepts go from here?



I'm sure they'll work out the kinks. The problem is that most builders/manufacturers usually work things out before they go to market. The whole 307 pages are a story of a brand wanting to ride the hype and get to market ASAP with paying customers as investors & beta-testers at points.


----------



## Nick Pipla

HellaSickTight said:


> Hey friend! I wouldn’t stress, Ivan has been an extremely apologetic and classy dude. He’s offered all of us full refunds, but he takes a couple days to respond.
> 
> For all the QC issues I have heard zero complaints about customer service in regards to returns.



Thanks for the info. I heard back from Ivan late last night, said he will contact me about it today.
It sounds like quite a few of these are making their way back...hopefully this is a sign/wake up call that most guitarists interested in instruments in this price range actually do inspect / care about the product they're receiving. Especially when 2-3k nowadays can get you a hell of a guitar...this type of work just won't cut it.


----------



## jephjacques

no-nut november really taking on a different meaning in this thread


----------



## bassisace

Yikes @Vroth88 , that’s an instant refund/replacement for me.

Again, I hope you all put in a review on their website to warn future customers. I know your posts have helped me not buy one, so thanks for sharing.


----------



## Frostbite

jephjacques said:


> no-nut november really taking on a different meaning in this thread


Sloppy nut november doesn't roll off the tongue does it?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

No nut to stop neck dive


----------



## HellaSickTight

jephjacques said:


> no-nut november really taking on a different meaning in this thread


Omfg I’m DYINGGGGGG


Vroth88 said:


> After HellaSickTight and others shared their issues with the nut I decided to use my recently acquired micro lens camera (new phone) and take a better look, my shitty eyes and not well lit room didnt help me much hehe
> 
> I finally noticed that my nut is not so great either, see the photos
> View media item 3489View media item 3488View media item 3487View media item 3486
> The other side of the nut was well done though (no pictures at the moment)
> 
> But what I also just realised right now is when I bend G string it moves around in the nut and falls into some creeve thus changing pitch while bent until I release it..very annoying and just unplayable for my taste, would have to get this fixed
> 
> I feel foolish for not seeing these things sooner and wanted this instrument to be my go-to 8 string guitar, but at this point I dont feel happy with what I got
> 
> Really love the guitar besides these issues and mabye I wanted it too much to be fine to notice these things, but now I don't feel that I received an instrument of it's value. I will contact them for a refund
> 
> Thank you all for sharing, it really changes everything and made me actually look into this more closely!


You and I are in the same boat my friend. I also feel quite foolish for not noticing earlier. This is honestly my first time seeing nuts like this, and I’ve owned tons of instruments. I guess that’s what makes the errors more egregious.


----------



## secretpizza

Do these problems have anything to do with using wenge for the neck? I’ve heard that it’s tough to work with and gets chipped easily, though I don’t remember the source of that comment.


----------



## cip 123

secretpizza said:


> Do these problems have anything to do with using wenge for the neck? I’ve heard that it’s tough to work with and gets chipped easily, though I don’t remember the source of that comment.


Wenge is tough to work with, it can also be toxic so there's definitely an upcharge to work with it given it's effect on tools and safety concerns. 

As far as the problems we've seen with the nut, the nut shelf could be getting chipped during production leading to a messy end result, but still WMI should have its production down on this, Ibanez can get it done very well in Indonesia. 

So yes you're right, but at the same time these things still shouldn't be happening. If I was Abasi I would question why nut problems are common and if WMI said the wood was tough to work with I'd change neck woods. 

There are plenty of ways to make stable necks at cheaper prices. Ibanez have even switched to Panga Panga wood which while very similar to Wenge isn't as hard and so will be less harsh on tools/cheaper/easier to work with. Take all this with a grain of salt, I don't know the production lines in and outs, just a few things about wood.


----------



## Vroth88

HellaSickTight said:


> Omfg I’m DYINGGGGGG
> 
> You and I are in the same boat my friend. I also feel quite foolish for not noticing earlier. This is honestly my first time seeing nuts like this, and I’ve owned tons of instruments. I guess that’s what makes the errors more egregious.



Ye man, I dont have much experience with the details either, lets hope for a good and quick resolution, thank you for sharing


----------



## bassisace

secretpizza said:


> Do these problems have anything to do with using wenge for the neck? I’ve heard that it’s tough to work with and gets chipped easily, though I don’t remember the source of that comment.



Wenge may be harder to work with, but a lot of companies have been using wenge correctly for years.

Maybe it’s a combination of bad QC and WMI workers not being well acquainted with the build. Either way, there’s no valid excuse because they should have been all aware of that during test runs and spotting blemishes and flaws isn’t that hard.

Abasi QC choosing not to send back faulty builds to WMI is an egregious mistake and unless the whole QC team needs glasses, it’s pretty hard to think that Abasi wasn’t aware of those problems but decided to sell the builds full price anyhow. I’d like to be convinced otherwise.


----------



## HellaSickTight

bassisace said:


> Wenge may be harder to work with, but a lot of companies have been using wenge correctly for years.
> 
> Maybe it’s a combination of bad QC and WMI workers not being well acquainted with the build. Either way, there’s no valid excuse IMO because they should have been all aware of that during test runs and spotting blemishes and flaws isn’t that hard.
> 
> Abasi QC choosing not to send back faulty builds to WMI is an egregious mistake and unless the whole QC team needs glasses, it’s pretty hard to think that Abasi wasn’t aware of those problems but decided to sell the builds full price anyhow. I’d like to be convinced otherwise.


When I look at mine it looks like the fretboard was cut too short, as well it looks like there was a notch cut for the nut, but the nut was too short so they completely filled in the notch and then some, to raise the nut high enough to get the strings at the right height. On top of that it looks like the nut was pressed into the filler sloppily leaving it sticking up at an angle. If it actually fit in the slot I don’t think any of this would have been an issue. I feel like there was some cnc miscalculations here or something?


----------



## Nick Pipla

Update on the status of my Abasi Legion 7 in Overcast. 
I heard back from Ivan, and they have offered a full refund.
While this guitar truly should've never gone out in the first place, I am grateful that they have awesome customer service.
I will be shipping mine back tomorrow, but I would absolutely consider purchasing another Abasi in the future under one of these circumstances:
1) Get their builds down clean with proper QC
2) it's made in Japan


----------



## Gearzilla

Based on this thread I can’t believe how lucky I got. After seeing those filler picks I went back and double checked my nut. It’s basically fine. There’s no way some of these guitars with issues in the latest batch should be shipping to customers.

If I was Tosin I would schedule a consultation with Gary Brawer to get the QC and remediation on track.

Here’s to hoping the next batch is better for Y’all!


----------



## BigViolin

Gary is a cool dude, let’s be nice to him. He’s also got better shit to do.

If Tosin should be consulting with anyone it should be Sheldon Dingwall IMO.


----------



## Vroth88

Have any Larada 8 owners figured out how to configure the intonation on the bridge?
Is it the little hole under the string?
Are you able to adjust it with the string on and tuned, especially the thickest string which could be increased in gauge (stringing either through the guitar or from the back of the bridge)?


----------



## Daniel Leu

Vroth88 said:


> Have any Larada 8 owners figured out how to configure the intonation on the bridge?
> Is it the little hole under the string?
> Are you able to adjust it with the string on and tuned, especially the thickest string which could be increased in gauge (stringing either through the guitar or from the back of the bridge)?
> View attachment 86745


yeah, it’s the screw underneath the string. you need to detune to pretty much complete slack, and then loosen the screw and move the saddle closer/further with your fingers. similar to how a strandberg saddle works. 

what gauge are you using for the low string? i need to up mine but not sure what will fit in the nut/tuner hole.


----------



## Vroth88

Daniel Leu said:


> yeah, it’s the screw underneath the string. you need to detune to pretty much complete slack, and then loosen the screw and move the saddle closer/further with your fingers. similar to how a strandberg saddle works.
> 
> what gauge are you using for the low string? i need to up mine but not sure what will fit in the nut/tuner hole.



Ah good to know thanks

Still just testing with the strings that came with the guitar, bottom F# string likely .074, would be good to know the thickest gauge it can support yes


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Vroth88 said:


> Have any Larada 8 owners figured out how to configure the intonation on the bridge?
> Is it the little hole under the string?
> Are you able to adjust it with the string on and tuned, especially the thickest string which could be increased in gauge (stringing either through the guitar or from the back of the bridge)?
> View attachment 86745


Pro tip on this bridge setup, abandon string through and put the string ball through the back end of the individual bridge, at the very least on the lowest string. There have been reports of intonation problems because the intonation range on the lowest string is obstructed by the string going through the string through hole.


----------



## Vroth88

ElysianGuitars said:


> Pro tip on this bridge setup, abandon string through and put the string ball through the back end of the individual bridge, at the very least on the lowest string. There have been reports of intonation problems because the intonation range on the lowest string is obstructed by the string going through the string through hole.



Great tip thanks!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Spoke with Ivan yesterday about if they are fixing the returned ones up and reselling as B-stock but they do not know yet


----------



## Lordcephid

So I was searching for reviews on Abasi Guitars and just found this site. Would just like to share my posts of the recent batch of Master series that I got. 

I was totally stoked when I finally got my hands on an Abasi after trying to snag one for ages. The guitar sits comfortably and plays extremely well, didn’t feel any difficulty moving from a 7 to an 8 string. But definitely they need to improve their QC work by a lot, considering I paid 3.5k for the guitar. 

Starting off, given that my guitar is a different style where there’s an artwork so not exactly sure whats the process they did, but definitely there’s a litttttttllleeee tiny bit of additional mark which not exactly sure if it was intentional. But maybe I’m just nit picking on it. But I found a scratch mark (last image) which really came to me as a surprise, but I can live with it. 

But my biggest problem are the fretboards. There’s a ding and a couple of tool marks that are across the 21st fret and 24 fret (hard to tell). Which is a really big turn off considering I’m paying such a huge amount. But compared to others I think my problems are much lesser. 

On the site it was stated as richlite but when I clarified with Ivan, he said this is a roast maple neck which I thought that maybe these flaws on the fret were natural wood problems. Maybe you guys can give me an opinion. 

Ivan did offer me a refund but since I live in Singapore, I would be losing way too much money in terms of conversion and shipping. So I decided to live with it. Nonetheless, props to Ivan cause he did offer me a full refund if I was not happy with the guitar. 

Apart from these blemishes and flaws, it’s really an awesome guitar. I feel better than my majesty but I hope that with all these issues that have been raised, I hope the step up their QC cause honestly paying such a high price for any guitar should be perfect. This was damn near perfect... unfortunately.


----------



## bassisace

@Lordcephid Thanks for sharing this. I was on the fence about Master Series but I’ll hold off.

Did you ask Ivan for a compensation? Maybe a full refund is out of the question, but in this state your guitar is not worth 3.5k$. Maybe he can treat it as a B-stock and take 300-500$ off the price. 

It’s unfortunate that a lot of buyers are in your situation and just can’t return an instrument. I’ll say it again, it’s our responsibility to inform future buyers by leaving product reviews on the Abasi website.


----------



## Lordcephid

bassisace said:


> @Lordcephid Thanks for sharing this. I was on the fence about Master Series but I’ll hold off.
> 
> Did you ask Ivan for a compensation? Maybe a full refund is out of the question, but in this state your guitar is not worth 3.5k$. Maybe he can treat it as a B-stock and take 300-500$ off the price.
> 
> It’s unfortunate that a lot of buyers are in your situation and just can’t return an instrument. I’ll say it again, it’s our responsibility to inform future buyers by leaving product reviews on the Abasi website.



Unfortunately when I shared the photo to him, he said he can’t determine the extent of what it is until they receive the guitar, which would mean it would have been a full refund. So I would think that a compensation of a couple of hundred bucks was out of the question. But maybe my mistake was not pressing hard enough. I did get tired of waiting for his replies cause they were busy with the Legion releases. Which took him pretty long to get back to me.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

To play devil's advocate, you said you really like the guitar. You're also not going to return it. How much do those objectively tiny marks detract from your enjoyment of the instrument? It's starting to feel like at this point we're looking for things to be wrong with these guitars. Obviously some of these things are pretty bad (NUTS), but is any guitar, even high end, truly perfect if we really scrutinize them as intensely as we've been the Laradas?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

The fact a lot of these even their flagship models are coming out with QC issues is concerning and putting a lot of doubt into the consumer base. I was flirting with these again but now I cannot. Aristides I am only gassing for you again


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TheInvisibleHand said:


> is any guitar, even high end, truly perfect if we really scrutinize them as intensely as we've been the Laradas?



Yes. 

It's weird how any time a brand is having problems with QC, it's all of a sudden presumed that flawless guitars don't exist.


----------



## Albake21

TheInvisibleHand said:


> To play devil's advocate, you said you really like the guitar. You're also not going to return it. How much do those objectively tiny marks detract from your enjoyment of the instrument? It's starting to feel like at this point we're looking for things to be wrong with these guitars. Obviously some of these things are pretty bad (NUTS), but is any guitar, even high end, truly perfect if we really scrutinize them as intensely as we've been the Laradas?


For $3.5k I just feel like the customer should expect a flawless guitar, and I can't fault them for thinking that way. I couldn't even imagine getting a Mayones, Skervesen, or Aristides and seeing these kinds of flaws on them. Sure they are minor, but it's still wrong on an instrument of this caliber.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yes.
> 
> It's weird how any time a brand is having problems with QC, it's all of a sudden presumed that flawless guitars don't exist.



Yep the customer will base will just be like " Oh only a few issues on my 3-3.5k instrument. That is okay"


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Albake21 said:


> For $3.5k I just feel like the customer should expect a flawless guitar, and I can't fault them for thinking that way. I couldn't even imagine getting a Mayones, Skervesen, or Aristides and seeing these kinds of flaws on them. Sure they are minor, but it's still wrong on an instrument of this caliber.



Never had anything but perfect from brands liek Aristides. Frigging Kiesel gets crapped on in some places, but at least they can ship out something perfect. Not an advocate just an observation


----------



## HellaSickTight

Lordcephid said:


> Unfortunately when I shared the photo to him, he said he can’t determine the extent of what it is until they receive the guitar, which would mean it would have been a full refund. So I would think that a compensation of a couple of hundred bucks was out of the question. But maybe my mistake was not pressing hard enough. I did get tired of waiting for his replies cause they were busy with the Legion releases. Which took him pretty long to get back to me.


Same here. They’re offering no b-stock level discounts on flawed guitars, only full refunds. Which honestly is worse for them as I probably would have been tempted/dumb enough to keep my guitar with that awful nut if he had given me $250 off or something.

I asked Ivan if there was any way I could ensure a Master series upgrade and he said there was no way they could offer a reservation or pre-order, which is a huge bummer because I’ve heard of him doing this for other unhappy customers. I even offered to professionally film the instruments for free as my main work is as a product and music cinematographer, I even shot an Animals as Leaders music video with Tosin once, yet Ivan didn’t bite. Which is weird because they have no professionally shot videos of any of these guitars.

SO MY FIRST ARISTIDES HERE I COME! Brandon has been 10x faster at responding and is getting into the minutia of chameleon finishes with me. I love their customer service so far!


----------



## CW7

HellaSickTight said:


> Same here. They’re offering no b-stock level discounts on flawed guitars, only full refunds. Which honestly is worse for them as I probably would have been tempted/dumb enough to keep my guitar with that awful nut if he had given me $250 off or something.
> 
> I asked Ivan if there was any way I could ensure a Master series upgrade and he said there was no way they could offer a reservation or pre-order, which is a huge bummer because I’ve heard of him doing this for other unhappy customers. I even offered to professionally film the instruments for free as my main work is as a product and music cinematographer, I even shot an Animals as Leaders music video with Tosin once, yet Ivan didn’t bite. Which is weird because they have no professionally shot videos of any of these guitars.
> 
> SO MY FIRST ARISTIDES HERE I COME! Brandon has been 10x faster at responding and is getting into the minutia of chameleon finishes with me. I love their customer service so far!


Aristides customer service is equal to their instruments. Absolutely flawless. You will not be disappointed.


----------



## Mathemagician

TheInvisibleHand said:


> To play devil's advocate, you said you really like the guitar. You're also not going to return it. How much do those objectively tiny marks detract from your enjoyment of the instrument? It's starting to feel like at this point we're looking for things to be wrong with these guitars. Obviously some of these things are pretty bad (NUTS), but is any guitar, even high end, truly perfect if we really scrutinize them as intensely as we've been the Laradas?



FFS, not everything needs a “devil’s advocate”. $3.5k for a “custom/hand built” instrument absolutely means “no dings or tool marks”. 


At that price point:
Dings and tool marks = B stock at best
Deep scrapes and flaws = full rebuild

No exceptions.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Mathemagician said:


> FFS, not everything needs a “devil’s advocate”. $3.5k for a “custom/hand built” instrument absolutely means “no dings or tool marks”.
> 
> 
> At that price point:
> Dings and tool marks = B stock at best
> Deep scrapes and flaws = full rebuild
> 
> No exceptions.



Calm your tits. My question was more about the impact of one specific person's ability to enjoy an instrument that was already stated to be "awesome" over some marks that will occur during normal play anyhow.


----------



## bassisace

TheInvisibleHand said:


> but is any guitar, even high end, truly perfect if we really scrutinize them as intensely as we've been the Laradas?



Of course, Aristides, Suhr, Music Man, etc. all put out perfect builds pretty consistently. Hell, Solar guitars and a ton of other brands also do that even on 800$ guitars.

Scratches on the fretboard of a 3.5k$ guitar absolutely warrant compensation. Scratches lower the resale value. It’s not only about playability and sound.

@Lordcephid It’s not too late to press harder.


----------



## kisielk

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Calm your tits. My question was more about the impact of one specific person's ability to enjoy an instrument that was already stated to be "awesome" over some marks that will occur during normal play anyhow.


How would I get gashes and tool marks on a fretboard from normal play? That's literally never happened to me.


----------



## Chevygizmo

Reverb is flooded with these now. Take your pick - Spartan, Spacetele, J7s, Legions. The hype is dead. This is the Russian roulette of guitars. Waiting on the Aristide H8 and it will be balanced (the 8 string master series for this money is not which is not really discussed on the forum). Neck dive is unreal. You can only play in the classical position. Total disappointment


----------



## Cyanide_Anima

$2K guitars should be flawless. I have a $2K Mayones, it is absolutely impeccable. I have a $2K EBMM JPXI-7, also incredible quality. A $2k guitar should have no flaws, incredible fretwork, incredible nut, and no sloppy tool marks whatsoever. It's just not acceptable. The entire path of the string from the ferrules to the nut to the tuners should be perfect.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Cyanide_Anima said:


> $2K guitars should be flawless. I have a $2K Mayones, it is absolutely impeccable. I have a $2K EBMM JPXI-7, also incredible quality. A $2k guitar should have no flaws, incredible fretwork, incredible nut, and no sloppy tool marks whatsoever. It's just not acceptable. The entire path of the string from the ferrules to the nut to the tuners should be perfect.


Hell my cosmetic defect Music Man is absolutely FLAWLESS. The gloss finish on the back is a tiny bit wavy in one small area, and that’s it. Their attention to detail is impeccable.


----------



## StevenC

Cyanide_Anima said:


> $2K guitars should be flawless. I have a $2K Mayones, it is absolutely impeccable. I have a $2K EBMM JPXI-7, also incredible quality. A $2k guitar should have no flaws, incredible fretwork, incredible nut, and no sloppy tool marks whatsoever. It's just not acceptable. The entire path of the string from the ferrules to the nut to the tuners should be perfect.


Pretty sure JPXI7s were $2600 at launch and are now $3k+


----------



## Mathemagician

kisielk said:


> How would I get gashes and tool marks on a fretboard from normal play? That's literally never happened to me.



Hold a screwdriver in your fist and just like woodpecker the guitar a few times I guess? You know, normal wear and tear.


----------



## kisielk

Mathemagician said:


> Hold a screwdriver in your fist and just like woodpecker the guitar a few times I guess? You know, normal wear and tear.


Ah, the so-called “extended technique”


----------



## Vroth88

Has anyone here been refunded at this point?
Is neither the initial shipping or the shipping needed to return the guitar refunded?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I mean, plenty of expensive guitars show up with problems, that's nothing new. It happens. 

But it's how frequently that happens and the method in which it's handled that separates the pros from the wannabes. 

Right now, Abasi doesn't seem to be doing that hot, or at least that's the impression. Playing devil's advocate isn't going to make it better, but so isn't piling on.


----------



## Nick Pipla

TheInvisibleHand said:


> To play devil's advocate, you said you really like the guitar. You're also not going to return it. How much do those objectively tiny marks detract from your enjoyment of the instrument? It's starting to feel like at this point we're looking for things to be wrong with these guitars. Obviously some of these things are pretty bad (NUTS), but is any guitar, even high end, truly perfect if we really scrutinize them as intensely as we've been the Laradas?


I have a Suhr I paid $3,400 USD for and there isn't a single thing wrong with it. Not even a damn scratch. Frets are perfect, etc. If there is a mark anywhere on it, i'm convinced it was probably by my doing. There are companies that have impeccable QC: Suhr, Anderson, Aristides, I've heard Caparison, J Custom, etc.

At, $3000+ range, you're competing with some serious players. You'll quickly be disregarded as a brand if you can't keep up. Nobody paying 3k plus for an instrument should have to settle.


----------



## Nick Pipla

Vroth88 said:


> Has anyone here been refunded at this point?
> Is neither the initial shipping or the shipping needed to return the guitar refunded?



I am getting a full refund, but they have to receive my guitar before refunding for obvious reasons. It's supposed to be delivered Saturday. I will keep you updated.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I agree that bashing isn’t going to help. They’ve shown that they can do perfect builds and I hope that once they fix QC and other possible issues with production they’ll be able the be more consistent.

Until then, the risk is way too high for me and I’ll stick with my J7.



Vroth88 said:


> Has anyone here been refunded at this point?
> Is neither the initial shipping or the shipping needed to return the guitar refunded?



Refund on my cancelled Legion order was quick (1 day). Refund on my returned Spartan was as also quick (~2 days after they received it). Shipping back to them was refunded. I don’t know for everywhere, but for Canada to get a refund of initial customs fees, I have to fill a customs form, which Ivan was nice enough to send to me. They have great customer support.


----------



## CW7

Chevygizmo said:


> Reverb is flooded with these now. Take your pick - Spartan, Spacetele, J7s, Legions. The hype is dead. This is the Russian roulette of guitars. Waiting on the Aristide H8 and it will be balanced (the 8 string master series for this money is not which is not really discussed on the forum). Neck dive is unreal. You can only play in the classical position. Total disappointment



I just got a Master 8 (swamp ash) to go along with my J7. I have to say the first i noticed was the LACK of neck dive. The 6 was atrocious. The 7 is something I can work with. The 8 is almost nonexistent , so much so it absolutely reinforces my belief that this guitar was clearly designed to be an 8 with light wood woods, and the 6 and 7s are afterthoughts. I’ll play it all weekend and have more to report on as far as QC and whether it’s a keeper or no, but I wanted to At least toss out that the neck dive , at least on my Master 8, is not an issue.


----------



## Lordcephid

TheInvisibleHand said:


> To play devil's advocate, you said you really like the guitar. You're also not going to return it. How much do those objectively tiny marks detract from your enjoyment of the instrument? It's starting to feel like at this point we're looking for things to be wrong with these guitars. Obviously some of these things are pretty bad (NUTS), but is any guitar, even high end, truly perfect if we really scrutinize them as intensely as we've been the Laradas?



Well I love the guitar and how comfortable it feels. It’s mostly cosmetic issues which having had other guitars at that price point came out flawless. Unfortunately, for me because I live in Singapore getting a full refund would mean I’d easily be losing another 100-200 usd due to conversion rates. 

But for sure, comparing to others who have way much more problems mine seems to be getting off good. But that’s keeping in mind, mine is a Master Series which is priced at close to 3.5k USD. I haven’t gone through the entire thread to see if others had issue with their Master Series, but I figured it’ll be good to let people know what to expect. 

Of course, I’m sure everyone who is looking to get one is hoping that Abasi steps up their QC throughout all their ranges


----------



## Lordcephid

Albake21 said:


> For $3.5k I just feel like the customer should expect a flawless guitar, and I can't fault them for thinking that way. I couldn't even imagine getting a Mayones, Skervesen, or Aristides and seeing these kinds of flaws on them. Sure they are minor, but it's still wrong on an instrument of this caliber.



Maybe just to add on to give a bit more context, since I live in Singapore, the conversion rates do not favour me. Although the guitar is priced at $3,499. Adding the shipping and tax together, after the conversion, I paid somewhere in the ballpark of 4k USD. Which is $500usd more than usual.


----------



## Jonathan20022

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I agree that bashing isn’t going to help. They’ve shown that they can do perfect builds and I hope that once they fix QC and other possible issues with production they’ll be able the be more consistent.
> 
> Until then, the risk is way too high for me and I’ll stick with my J7.
> 
> 
> 
> Refund on my cancelled Legion order was quick (1 day). Refund on my returned Spartan was as also quick (~2 days after they received it). Shipping back to them was refunded. I don’t know for everywhere, but for Canada to get a refund of initial customs fees, I have to fill a customs form, which Ivan was nice enough to send to me. They have great customer support.



Well that's frustrating, I emailed Ivan 3 days ago and just sent him another follow up. It's been 7 days since it's been back with them and no follow up or processed refund on my end. I'm not worried, but the delay in response time is pretty frustrating all around.

And people need to stop bashing brands, just be objective showcase issues transparently for public awareness if you spot some and leave it at that. The brand seems to be open to taking in returns without hassle as they should.


----------



## Lordcephid

Vroth88 said:


> Has anyone here been refunded at this point?
> Is neither the initial shipping or the shipping needed to return the guitar refunded?



from my conversation with Ivan, if you report a flaw within 2 days from receiving the guitar, they will cover the shipping and offer a full refund


----------



## cip 123

I think for the next run it might be wise if they switched from Wenge on the neck. Could probably get equal or better results from a cheaper wood which would maybe lower the price and expectations of this series.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

cip 123 said:


> I think for the next run it might be wise if they switched from Wenge on the neck. Could probably get equal or better results from a cheaper wood which would maybe lower the price and expectations of this series.



They could do roasted maple. It is stable


----------



## XmO

Their customer service has been excellent. I don't think anyone here is necessarily "Bashing' Abasi. I think a lot of us are fans that were very excited for the brand, hence the hype.
If anyone else is thinking like me, I hope they actually fix their QC because i'd love to own one down the road again.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cip 123 said:


> I think for the next run it might be wise if they switched from Wenge on the neck. Could probably get equal or better results from a cheaper wood which would maybe lower the price and expectations of this series.



All manufacturers involved have used wenge without issue, WMI has decades of experience with it on basses.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MaxOfMetal said:


> All manufacturers involved have used wenge without issue, WMI has decades of experience with it on basses.




I was about to pull up a point of it being a super porous wood and tough to work with. Something else abotu wenge is it has a smell to it. It also picks up the odors of it's players. I had a tAM100 that I could not stand the smell of. I left it in a case with 2 coconut almond tea bags for a few days. Then it smelled better


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I got a good deal on a Larada LEgion 8 from a friend so I will be trying it out soon. His inspection only found a tool mark on the top of one of the pickups. Nut looks fine.


----------



## XmO

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I got a good deal on a Larada LEgion 8 from a friend so I will be trying it out soon. His inspection only found a tool mark on the top of one of the pickups. Nut looks fine.


I wish you luck my friend. After seeing what I did on the Legion I owned, I would never purchase another Legion. IF I did buy another Abasi it would most likely only be from Japan. I've even heard horrible things of the 6 string spartans and those are USA made.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I was about to pull up a point of it being a super porous wood and tough to work with. Something else abotu wenge is it has a smell to it. It also picks up the odors of it's players. I had a tAM100 that I could not stand the smell of. I left it in a case with 2 coconut almond tea bags for a few days. Then it smelled better



My point is, these aren't being made by Crazy Larry's Handmade Guitars and Formica Countertops, it's fucking WMI, Grover Jackson Works, and Dyna Fucking Gakki. 

These folks know how to make guitars, it's just these things are being slapped together as fast as they can and management (Abasi) doesn't really care about what they're sending.


----------



## Randy

Yeah, I don't think the issue is specifically working with the wenge.

Tooling looks to be off, like they're getting chipout more often than not on the fretboard carve and trying to cover for it with reshaping the nut rather than repairing the board and fixing the chipout problem. Looks like basic growing pains and rushing again (reminds me of the polish on the NAMM models). I'd still bet on the next run being a lot better as they retool things. 

Still feels like a cursed brand sometimes but like I've said, unusual design and it's passed through a number of hands. If they stick with the manufacturers they have right now, tighen up the QC some and filter out where they're getting the blems (chipout, taping or damage during handling, etc), these should be pretty good next run IMO. Current buyers should be getting a full refund or discount though.


----------



## CW7

XmO said:


> I wish you luck my friend. After seeing what I did on the Legion I owned, I would never purchase another Legion. IF I did buy another Abasi it would most likely only be from Japan. I've even heard horrible things of the 6 string spartans and those are USA made.


I can add- I had a Spartan . It was indeed trash. BUT- I just got a Master Series and it's clear to me, it's either an entirely different set of folks OR they are paying WAY more attention. The Master 8 required just a small fret touch up and the action is slammed and it rips. I have a J8 on the way as well, so I plan on doing a head to head comaprison in the coming weeks. (I currently own a J7 and am anxious to see how the 8s stack up to each other).


----------



## XmO

Randy said:


> Yeah, I don't think the issue is specifically working with the wenge.
> 
> Tooling looks to be off, like they're getting chipout more often than not on the fretboard carve and trying to cover for it with reshaping the nut rather than repairing the board and fixing the chipout problem. Looks like basic growing pains and rushing again (reminds me of the polish on the NAMM models). I'd still bet on the next run being a lot better as they retool things.
> 
> Still feels like a cursed brand sometimes but like I've said, unusual design and it's passed through a number of hands. If they stick with the manufacturers they have right now, tighen up the QC some and filter out where they're getting the blems (chipout, taping or damage during handling, etc), these should be pretty good next run IMO. Current buyers should be getting a full refund or discount though.



In my Circumstance though, and another person on here with a legion also, we had straight up neck cracks running up our necks near where the neck Bolts-on.
I don't believe this is necessarily the result of rushing, as much as a fundamental issue with either how the Neck bolts into the body, or how this guitar is designed.
That or they are just way over tightening the bolt-on screws or something. But I think this is a major area (among many others) that has to be considered on the Legion series.
More than a couple instances of this have occurred.

As I stated in my original post, my Legion had no more than 1-2 hours of play time and I had a 2 inch crack running up the neck...I observed it the next day after I found it and i swear it grew slightly. 

This, paired with the other glaring issues that people have found is enough for me to entirely cancel out purchasing a Legion series instrument altogether. It feels like me and so many others fell for the hype of getting a budget-Abasi, and so far they've proven they aren't making a very quality guitar in this price range.

Personally I just feel right now there's a lot better places to put $2100 when it comes to guitars.


----------



## XmO

CW7 said:


> I can add- I had a Spartan . It was indeed trash. BUT- I just got a Master Series and it's clear to me, it's either an entirely different set of folks OR they are paying WAY more attention. The Master 8 required just a small fret touch up and the action is slammed and it rips. I have a J8 on the way as well, so I plan on doing a head to head comaprison in the coming weeks. (I currently own a J7 and am anxious to see how the 8s stack up to each other).



Very odd to me how a US made 6 string Spartan is complete garbage, but for an extra 3-400 dollars, it appears the Master series is quite nice.
Not only is that weird, it's unacceptable. Just shows how inconsistent their products have been. Some people get guitars that should've been sold for $700, and some get what appears to be excellent grade work.


----------



## cip 123

MaxOfMetal said:


> All manufacturers involved have used wenge without issue, WMI has decades of experience with it on basses.


Fair, But maybe those manufacturers have higher capital and more flexibility on what they can send back.


Abasi get the guitars and due to their small size and preorder sales might be locked in to just selling them regardless of defects hoping that enough live with the small marks and the return can keep them afloat for the next run.

A spec change even just painting the necks might help them either minimise or or hide some flaws that they don’t have the ability to send back. There are easier woods to work with if I was in their position it’s definitely something I’d explore along with their QC, if you minimise the risk of defects you further minimise the risk of QC slips.


----------



## Randy

XmO said:


> In my Circumstance though, and another person on here with a legion also, we had straight up neck cracks running up our necks near where the neck Bolts-on.
> I don't believe this is necessarily the result of rushing, as much as a fundamental issue with either how the Neck bolts into the body, or how this guitar is designed.
> That or they are just way over tightening the bolt-on screws or something. But I think this is a major area (among many others) that has to be considered on the Legion series.
> More than a couple instances of this have occurred.
> 
> As I stated in my original post, my Legion had no more than 1-2 hours of play time and I had a 2 inch crack running up the neck...I observed it the next day after I found it and i swear it grew slightly.
> 
> This, paired with the other glaring issues that people have found is enough for me to entirely cancel out purchasing a Legion series instrument altogether. It feels like me and so many others fell for the hype of getting a budget-Abasi, and so far they've proven they aren't making a very quality guitar in this price range.
> 
> Personally I just feel right now there's a lot better places to put $2100 when it comes to guitars.



Agreed on all points.

Only thing I wanna clarify is that the neck cracks still fall under "rush" because wenge is prone to chipping/cracking because it's brittle. So either the batch they used wasn't properly acclimated or they weren't adequetely predrilling for the hardware they were using, etc. There was some kind of carelessness there. Neck joint look sufficient for tension there, but I guess the design (including placement of the screws) could potentially be part of the issue.

Anyway, yeah, I'm in full agreement I wouldn't recommend these to someone at this pricepoint with the frequency of stuff we're seeing. Like I said, if I had the money to handle it, I'd say they should be offering a pretty liberal full refund policy (this two day stuff ain't gonna work) and substantial partial refund even on the blem'd stuff. Those are scratch n' dent, b-stock type issues, they should NOT be arriving to people at full price.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cip 123 said:


> Fair, But maybe those manufacturers have higher capital and more flexibility on what they can send back.
> 
> 
> Abasi get the guitars and due to their small size and preorder sales might be locked in to just selling them regardless of defects hoping that enough live with the small marks and the return can keep them afloat for the next run.
> 
> A spec change even just painting the necks might help them either minimise or or hide some flaws that they don’t have the ability to send back. There are easier woods to work with if I was in their position it’s definitely something I’d explore along with their QC, if you minimise the risk of defects you further minimise the risk of QC slips.



The way these OEMs (specifically, WMI and Dyna, I have an idea what Grover is doing, but I won't speculate) work is you tell them what is acceptable and what isn't and then hold them accountable.

They'll whip up a few pre-pro samples and do a pilot run, and then the customer evaluates things and it's up to the manufacturer to hit those targets.

I doubt Dyna or WMI don't have the cash to accept returns.


----------



## XmO

Grover inspecting the Spartan 6's


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I don't think the manufacturers missed anything. 

I think they sent whatever as long as they hit thier delivery date with the expectation they'd have to accept some returns/make concessions due to quality. 

But no one cares. 

These aren't impossible to build.


----------



## yngve knudsen

I was just offered a full refund on my guitar and shipping back after sending pictures of my nut to abasi. I asked for a compensation but they could not offer that.


----------



## XmO

Some of these Legions are kind of like a used car salesman selling someone a car that looks phenomenally clean, and then after 100 miles the tranny goes out.
You think the customer isn't going to find the flaws and come back asking for a refund?

I feel like MaxOfMetal is saying, they sent them out regardless, which is now biting them back.


----------



## bassisace

cip 123 said:


> Fair, But maybe those manufacturers have higher capital and more flexibility on what they can send back.
> 
> 
> Abasi get the guitars and due to their small size and preorder sales might be locked in to just selling them regardless of defects hoping that enough live with the small marks and the return can keep them afloat for the next run.
> 
> A spec change even just painting the necks might help them either minimise or or hide some flaws that they don’t have the ability to send back. There are easier woods to work with if I was in their position it’s definitely something I’d explore along with their QC, if you minimise the risk of defects you further minimise the risk of QC slips.



AFAIK Abasi does not and never had a preorder system.

I doubt neck wood is responsible for horrible nuts, badly aligned pickups on some J7s and tool marks on pickups, body and elsewhere.


----------



## Mathemagician

Plus with Wenge, I’m pretty sure from a tone/feel perspective it’s something that Tosin has a huge preference for. So it’d be weird for him not to offer his preferred specs on his company’s guitars.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

https://abasiconcepts.com/

Looks like overcast 7 in stock now. 

Which means someone probably returned it or cancelled it.


----------



## XmO

I saw a tundra 6 spartan pop up the other day too with no email from abasi...and i recall reading not long ago about a guy returning a tundra 6...if they are just cleaning up /reselling these returns, that is a major red flag / money grab.

Id hope they arent doing that, but it could be happening to try and sell the instrument to someone less "picky."


----------



## cip 123

MaxOfMetal said:


> The way these OEMs (specifically, WMI and Dyna, I have an idea what Grover is doing, but I won't speculate) work is you tell them what is acceptable and what isn't and then hold them accountable.
> 
> They'll whip up a few pre-pro samples and do a pilot run, and then the customer evaluates things and it's up to the manufacturer to hit those targets.
> 
> I doubt Dyna or WMI don't have the cash to accept returns.


Like you said earlier it's being put together quick and being sent out by Abasi, my point isn't on WMI not being able to accept returns it's that Abasi are probably sending them out seeing who will accept them. 

When they do a "drop" they sell out that day, every guitar has a name on it, so they send it out regardless. They have the money/sales, and that looks good on paper. But I've had guitars that I know full well the builder is aware of the flaws and they just want to see if you'll accept it basically. This feels like that for these WMI's.

Like @Randy says the tooling looks off, if WMI send out production samples surely this would have been noticed, and if WMI have been working with wenge for years then problems like this shouldn't be arising. I agree they're probably unfamiliar with the design and rushing, but in it's essence it's just a multiscale with wenge a nut shelf shouldn't be hard for them. They're rushing Abasi know what they have, but they'll send it.

Which is why I'm suggesting it'd be wise to switch woods to something more forgiving, if they need to rush builds.

Abasi are small and my opinion seeing this latest drop it looks like they're locking themselves in to having to sell what they get and not go bust all together. If you therefore have to rush builds to get out and get money, don't use woods that won't do well under those circumstances. If it's shaves off money and minimises (I'm not saying eliminates because any rushed build could have issues) build problems, then it's a win for Abasi and customers. Of course maple can still crack or chip if it's machined incorrectly or rushed, but I give it a damn sight better chance than wenge. Feel free to disagree but if they wanna rush things I'd wanna minimise risk.



bassisace said:


> AFAIK Abasi does not and never had a preorder system.
> 
> I doubt neck wood is responsible for horrible nuts, badly aligned pickups on some J7s and tool marks on pickups, body and elsewhere.


Preorder was the wrong word, I basically mean when these "drop" they're sold out on the day, every guitar has a name and address on it from the moment they're available basically. Preorder was just the first similar thing that came to mind because that's how it feels they're gone before most get a chance.

Bad nut shelf I can see how poor programming could leave a chip or 2, trying to take off too much material at once, or cutting the wrong way on something brittle could leave bad results. 

I'm mainly just talking about the neck issues. The other stuff is just carelessness. 



Mathemagician said:


> Plus with Wenge, I’m pretty sure from a tone/feel perspective it’s something that Tosin has a huge preference for. So it’d be weird for him not to offer his preferred specs on his company’s guitars.


The TAM10 was maple and walnut even when he had preference for Wenge, and some of the Masters/J's come with roasted maple I think don't they?
Might be his preference, but it's been changed in the past.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@cip 123 Don’t Schecter and other brands already make wenge necked guitars at the WMI factory (e.g. Schecter Nick Johnston model) ? Maybe I’m wrong.

@Jonathan20022 The late response is pretty weird, but maybe he’s dealing with a ton of returns.


----------



## StevenC

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @cip 123 Don’t Schecter and other brands already make wenge necked guitars at the WMI factory (e.g. Schecter Nick Johnston model) ? Maybe I’m wrong.


Schecter NJ import is Indonesian made and has a roasted maple neck. I think some of their their KM7 mkIII has a wenge neck, but there were loads of problems with those too, IIRC.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cip 123 said:


> Like you said earlier it's being put together quick and being sent out by Abasi, my point isn't on WMI not being able to accept returns it's that Abasi are probably sending them out seeing who will accept them.
> 
> When they do a "drop" they sell out that day, every guitar has a name on it, so they send it out regardless. They have the money/sales, and that looks good on paper. But I've had guitars that I know full well the builder is aware of the flaws and they just want to see if you'll accept it basically. This feels like that for these WMI's.
> 
> Like @Randy says the tooling looks off, if WMI send out production samples surely this would have been noticed, and if WMI have been working with wenge for years then problems like this shouldn't be arising. I agree they're probably unfamiliar with the design and rushing, but in it's essence it's just a multiscale with wenge a nut shelf shouldn't be hard for them. They're rushing Abasi know what they have, but they'll send it.
> 
> Which is why I'm suggesting it'd be wise to switch woods to something more forgiving, if they need to rush builds.
> 
> Abasi are small and my opinion seeing this latest drop it looks like they're locking themselves in to having to sell what they get and not go bust all together. If you therefore have to rush builds to get out and get money, don't use woods that won't do well under those circumstances. If it's shaves off money and minimises (I'm not saying eliminates because any rushed build could have issues) build problems, then it's a win for Abasi and customers. Of course maple can still crack or chip if it's machined incorrectly or rushed, but I give it a damn sight better chance than wenge. Feel free to disagree but if they wanna rush things I'd wanna minimise risk.



I think we're mostly saying the same thing. 

What I'm saying is that OEMs are expecting returns, it's part of the game. From what I know helping to manage a Korean house brand in the past, you're not charged for these issues. They either credit you or send replacements. The brand is the customer afterall and if you leave them in the lurch there are plenty other places to go.

The issue isn't how difficult these are or aren't to get right, it's that Abasi doesn't really give a shit what they send out because there's a near endless stream of rubes will to buy junk because of hype or hucksters that'll flip it for profit. There's zero incentive to do better for the foreseeable future using this hype/drop/hype model.

So even if they were putting out vanilla Tele copies, they would be shipping crap because they rather refund/re-ship than go through the process like PRS or Dingwall or Solar does.

Remember, the common denominator here is Abasi. What are the odds that three seasoned, unique builders using a somewhat standard material sourced from different vendors are at fault?


----------



## cip 123

MaxOfMetal said:


> What I'm saying is that OEMs are expecting returns, it's part of the game. From what I know helping to manage a Korean house brand in the past, you're not charged for these issues. They either credit you or send replacements. The brand is the customer afterall and if you leave them in the lurch there are plenty other places to go.
> 
> The issue isn't how difficult these are or aren't to get right, it's that Abasi doesn't really give a shit what they send out because there's a near endless stream of rubes will to buy junk because of hype or hucksters that'll flip it for profit. There's zero incentive to do better for the foreseeable future using this hype/drop/hype model.
> 
> So even if they were putting out vanilla Tele copies, they would be shipping crap because they rather refund/re-ship than go through the process like PRS or Dingwall or Solar does.
> 
> Remember, the common denominator here is Abasi. What are the odds that three seasoned, unique builders using a somewhat standard material sourced from different vendors are at fault?


I feel like we're two sides of the same coin here. Just going about the issue different ways.

I'm not blaming WMI, I fully agree it's Abasi not selling the quality they should, they know what they have and they're sending it out. I'm more customer focused just thinking about ways to get better results for customers if they're going to continue this line the same way or with small improvements I would Personally just use a wood that's easier to handle. It won't solve all the problems but it might get a customer a nicer guitar at the end.

We've seen different neck woods on Larada's and different neck woods on Tosin sigs no real reason not to switch it up, might even help the neck dive.


----------



## Mathemagician

cip 123 said:


> I feel like we're two sides of the same coin here. Just going about the issue different ways.
> 
> I'm not blaming WMI, I fully agree it's Abasi not selling the quality they should, they know what they have and they're sending it out. I'm more customer focused just thinking about ways to get better results for customers if they're going to continue this line the same way or with small improvements I would Personally just use a wood that's easier to handle. It won't solve all the problems but it might get a customer a nicer guitar at the end.
> 
> We've seen different neck woods on Larada's and different neck woods on Tosin sigs no real reason not to switch it up, might even help the neck dive.



The issue is that it’s not about the wood. WMI have proven they could do it. (It’s likely how they won the bid). It’s Abasi not doing due diligence. The wood isn’t inherently the issue. The lack of/low QC is the culprit.


----------



## XmO

I'd say Buyer Beware for any Abasi that comes available on their website without an official email from them about a "drop." It's most likely a return, and it was most likely returned for a reason.


----------



## bassisace

XmO said:


> I'd say Buyer Beware for any Abasi that comes available on their website without an official email from them about a "drop." It's most likely a return, and it was most likely returned for a reason.



That would be extra shady on their part to knowingly sell returned b-stock as mint/new.


----------



## diagrammatiks

They are clearly not reworking or returning enough guitars. But that seems to be par on course for smaller companies using wmi these days.


----------



## cip 123

Mathemagician said:


> The issue is that it’s not about the wood. WMI have proven they could do it. (It’s likely how they won the bid). It’s Abasi not doing due diligence. The wood isn’t inherently the issue. The lack of/low QC is the culprit.


Yes but some woods are inherently more susceptible to chipping and tear out. If Abasi are going to send out the guitars with these problems anyway which they are. Switching to something with less risk might get some customers nicer guitars. 


My point isn’t “Wenge bad boo” my point is customers might receive better guitars with some spec changes that minimise problems going wrong.


If the tooling is wrong there will always be problems, if the builds are rushed there will always be problems but using materials that aren’t as brittle could stop someone ending up with a neck crack or tear out at the nut.


----------



## XmO

bassisace said:


> That would be extra shady on their part to knowingly sell returned b-stock as mint/new.



Well, explain to me then how the Legion in "overcast" was limited to 25 worldwide.
This model sells out, logically meaning there is no more of them.
Then yesterday, my legion in overcast arrives back at Abasi in LA for a return. Another guy on here returned one as well.
Suddenly there are more legion in overcast for sale on their website.

So there's only two logical conclusions:
1) They really weren't limited to 25, and more are available or were received by Abasi.
2) They're literally just cleaning the fretboard / polishing the guitar and re-selling returned Legions to the public hoping it will sell to someone who doesn't care / notice the flaws.

I noticed this happened with the Tundra Spartan as well. Someone else mentioned that if Capital is an issue, they may just be trying to sell what they have instead of dealing with returns to WMI.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

XmO said:


> Well, explain to me then how the Legion in "overcast" was limited to 25 worldwide.
> This model sells out, logically meaning there is no more of them.
> Then yesterday, my legion in overcast arrives back at Abasi in LA for a return. Another guy on here returned one as well.
> Suddenly there are more legion in overcast for sale on their website.
> 
> So there's only two logical conclusions:
> 1) They really weren't limited to 25, and more are available or were received by Abasi.
> 2) They're literally just cleaning the fretboard / polishing the guitar and re-selling returned Legions to the public hoping it will sell to someone who doesn't care / notice the flaws.
> 
> I noticed this happened with the Tundra Spartan as well. Someone else mentioned that if Capital is an issue, they may just be trying to sell what they have instead of dealing with returns to WMI.



They are not reselling them. When the guitars are received back the selling software automatically relists the item on the website. I know this because I saw the same thing happen with a Sage J7. I bought it and then within second the order was cancelled by the software and it said "order unable to be filled because of stock". Ivan also emailed me and said it dhouldn't have been relisted. I saw that happen with the Tundra Spartan, and a Spartan that I had cancelled in one of the first batches.


----------



## XmO

TheInvisibleHand said:


> They are not reselling them. When the guitars are received back the selling software automatically relists the item on the website. I know this because I saw the same thing happen with a Sage J7. I bought it and then within second the order was cancelled by the software and it said "order unable to be filled because of stock". Ivan also emailed me and said it dhouldn't have been relisted. I saw that happen with the Tundra Spartan, and a Spartan that I had cancelled in one of the first batches.


Good to know, thank you for clearing that up. Good Information to have. I hoped they weren't.


----------



## yngve knudsen

Anyone else got circular scratches on the body around the volume control on the legion?


----------



## Lordcephid

yngve knudsen said:


> Anyone else got circular scratches on the body around the volume control on the legion?



mine’s a master, there hasn’t been a circular scratch on the volume knob yet. It’s super tight when I try to turn it on, I highly suspect that the nut/washer that was fitted in is the wrong size. So in due time, I suspect that there will be scratch marks on it. I’m trying to prevent that from happening by pulling the knob up first and turning the volume up and pushing the knob back down


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Lordcephid said:


> mine’s a master, there hasn’t been a circular scratch on the volume knob yet. It’s super tight when I try to turn it on, I highly suspect that the nut/washer that was fitted in is the wrong size. So in due time, I suspect that there will be scratch marks on it. I’m trying to prevent that from happening by pulling the knob up first and turning the volume up and pushing the knob back down



Loosen the set screw, slide an index card under the knob, tighten the screw. Should turn freely and still look flush.


----------



## yngve knudsen

Lordcephid said:


> mine’s a master, there hasn’t been a circular scratch on the volume knob yet. It’s super tight when I try to turn it on, I highly suspect that the nut/washer that was fitted in is the wrong size. So in due time, I suspect that there will be scratch marks on it. I’m trying to prevent that from happening by pulling the knob up first and turning the volume up and pushing the knob back down


Not on the nob. On the body;


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

yngve knudsen said:


> Not on the nob. On the body;



Oh wow. Return it


----------



## XmO

Wow...those scratches are pretty substantial...What is the deal with these Legions...?


----------



## jephjacques

Good lord, how does that even happen


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Hm seems like the gloss ones had allll the issues. I have a satin charcoal coming in Tuesday from a friend. No finish issues or nut problems on his


----------



## yngve knudsen

Took the picture with iphone 11 pro cam and an extra lamp for lights. I haven't removed the label. But how does several of circular scratches appear? To get these as a result of the label it should have been many small stonelike pieces or something glued to the label. At this point all I want is an abasi and I am not secured one if I return this. Maybe r3tr0sp3ct1v3 could convince me to buy an aristides. I will ask for a compensation again even tho Ivan said no for the nut.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

yngve knudsen said:


> Took the picture with iphone 11 pro cam and an extra lamp for lights. I haven't removed the label. But how does several of circular scratches appear? To get these as a result of the label it should have been many small stonelike pieces or something glued to the label. At this point all I want is an abasi and I am not secured one if I return this. Maybe r3tr0sp3ct1v3 could convince me to buy an aristides. I do not get a compensation for the nut only refund. I will ask Ivan again for this. I have payed 546 in taxes to get it to norway...



Ha I can very much convince you yes. If you were closer I would say you could come over and we could jam on my 080 for a bit! Sorry to hear about these issues  

International buyers were the ones most screwed by this. You could ask for some kind of partial compensation due to your situation then go get it refinished.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

For reference, I will be putting together a comparison video.


----------



## XmO

I returned my legion, Bought an Aristides instead.


----------



## yngve knudsen

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Ha I can very much convince you yes. If you were closer I would say you could come over and we could jam on my 080 for a bit! Sorry to hear about these issues
> 
> International buyers were the ones most screwed by this. You could ask for some kind of partial compensation due to your situation then go get it refinished.


Ha you seem like a cool dude! After receiving the legion I am not as sure as if I like the xtra horn over and from the twelft fret and the neck makes my thumb work more when playing the lowest strings compared to my ibanez rgim8mh since it's just bigger in that area and sticks out (but getting used to it). But I am such a BIG Tosin fan boy. This forum is excellent for searching the perfect 8 string but for me there is and has never been a string player as tosin so I seem chronical biased towards Abasi's. And besides the horn maybe, it look the sickest and feels and sounds delicious!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

yngve knudsen said:


> Ha you seem like a cool dude! After receiving the legion I am not as sure as if I like the xtra horn over and from the twelft fret and the neck makes my thumb work more when playing the lowest strings compared to my ibanez rgim8mh since it's just bigger in that area and sticks out (but getting used to it). But I am such a BIG Tosin fan boy. This forum is excellent for searching the perfect 8 string but for me there is and has never been a string player as tosin so I seem chronical biased towards Abasi's. And besides the horn maybe, it look the sickest and feels and sounds delicious!



You can get the Abasi set in aristides. I have a build being specces with Brandon and pascal with them. It’s really sad to hear you are with down by the Abasi. I totally understand. I talked up JP models in my head for so long then had one and was like “meh”.

You should do what is right for you friend. If you ever have questions about aristides or other brands. I’ve played all except some boutique like vik and Oni. I’ll also have a legion in Tuesday to compare to and stuff


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> You can get the Abasi set in aristides. I have a build being specces with Brandon and pascal with them. It’s really sad to hear you are with down by the Abasi. I totally understand. I talked up JP models in my head for so long then had one and was like “meh”.
> 
> You should do what is right for you friend. If you ever have questions about aristides or other brands. I’ve played all except some boutique like vik and Oni. I’ll also have a legion in Tuesday to compare to and stuff


100%. My Aristides H/08 is getting Abasis.


----------



## Indigenous

Wild card prediction for the brand:

Abasi Concepts ends up unhappy with their QC and goes shopping for a new builder. They decide on a US company. Coming soon - Abasi by Kiesel. 

It would be a fitting end to 2020, don't you think?


----------



## Hollowway

Indigenous said:


> Wild card prediction for the brand:
> 
> Abasi Concepts ends up unhappy with their QC and goes shopping for a new builder. They decide on a US company. Coming soon - Abasi by Kiesel.
> 
> It would be a fitting end to 2020, don't you think?


Could be more history there than you realize....


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Hollowway said:


> Could be more history there than you realize....




Shhh that’s a secret.


----------



## MrWulf

Honestly Abasi by Kiesel would be the next logical move, unless Abasi want his brand to get worse day by day.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MrWulf said:


> Honestly Abasi by Kiesel would be the next logical move, unless Abasi want his brand to get worse day by day.


Let’s just say that road was traveled and didn’t work out so well the first time.


----------



## Indigenous

Wait, Kiesel was a possibility at one point? Do tell, I've been following this thread for awhile and don't remember that coming up.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

It’s because no one mentioned. I have a “source” at kiesel who provided me with a picture of a proto and information. I’ve shared that with about 2-3 other people on here.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> It’s because no one mentioned. I have a “source” at kiesel who provided me with a picture of a proto and information. I’ve shared that with about 2-3 other people on here.


well spill the deets


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

View media item 2617


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Story is it took him forever to get the Ibanez proto back because he ghosted them to start abasi


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

KnightBrolaire said:


> well spill the deets



check above


----------



## HellaSickTight

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> View media item 2617


It’s saying I don’t have permission to see the image


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Oh wait let me fix


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

81DF278A-444B-4264-BDAA-27839CE2E3F0



__ r3tr0sp3ct1v3
__ Nov 8, 2020
__ 1


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HellaSickTight said:


> It’s saying I don’t have permission to see the image


 reposted below


----------



## HellaSickTight

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> 81DF278A-444B-4264-BDAA-27839CE2E3F0
> 
> 
> 
> __ r3tr0sp3ct1v3
> __ Nov 8, 2020
> __ 1


Wow that’s fascinating!!! Super kiesel style build with that what looks like raw swamp ash and triangle of death. The cutout for the headless bridge isn’t as elegant as Falbo’s imo. Thanks for sharing! I love seeing stuff like this!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HellaSickTight said:


> Wow that’s fascinating!!! Such a kiesel build with that swamp ash and triangle of death. The cutout for the headless bridge isn’t as elegant as Falbo’s imo. Thanks for sharing! I love seeing stuff like this!



This was pre Falbo


----------



## HellaSickTight

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> This was pre Falbo


I figured as much. Just comparing the different approaches for fun.


----------



## HellaSickTight

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Story is it took him forever to get the Ibanez proto back because he ghosted them to start abasi


LOL oh man that sounds like a story I’d love to hear!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I wish it would have worked out. Jeff wouldn’t sell me the proto


----------



## Albake21

Wow.... now I wonder if Abasi regrets not just going with Kiesel. I'm sure it would have worked out great. It's super weird seeing a Kiesel logo on that Larada though.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Albake21 said:


> Wow.... now I wonder if Abasi regrets not just going with Kiesel. I'm sure it would have worked out great. It's super weird seeing a Kiesel logo on that Larada though.



I would have gotten a couple. I really dig it. Also this was done before the Zeus


----------



## MrWulf

Considering what have been happening a Kiesel Abasi would certainly have better quality than whatever the fuck Abasi Concepts has been putting out. Then again though almost every models are sold out so what the fuck do I know about making guitars.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MrWulf said:


> Considering what have been happening a Kiesel Abasi would certainly have better quality than whatever the fuck Abasi Concepts has been putting out. Then again though almost every models are sold out so what the fuck do I know about making guitars.


abasi is copying strandberg's model of putting out mediocre guitars in limited quantities. So shitloads of demand and minimal supply (and minimal qc from the looks of it).


----------



## diagrammatiks

The indo strandbergs have been much much much better like so much better. 

I wonder if this is an issue with wmi just putting out too many guitars that need to be reviewed and reworked.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> The indo strandbergs have been much much much better like so much better.



Such a low bar.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Such a low bar.



It’s a pretty good 900 dollar guitar tho


----------



## MaxOfMetal

diagrammatiks said:


> It’s a pretty good 900 dollar guitar tho



That's about where I'd peg them overall.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I think the Kiesel venture would have been a lot less headache. Kiesel may be cringe in some places but they are consistently producing instruments.


----------



## MrWulf

KnightBrolaire said:


> abasi is copying strandberg's model of putting out mediocre guitars in limited quantities. So shitloads of demand and minimal supply (and minimal qc from the looks of it).



He must be swimming in margins from all those ppl who think Larada is the only thing left before they can finally play like Abasi


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MrWulf said:


> He must be swimming in margins from all those ppl who think Larada is the only thing left before they can finally play like Abasi



You think they would have learned from buying EBMM JP's and Ibanez JEM/Universes


----------



## XmO

The overall design / look of the Abasi Larada is excellent, IMO. The first time I saw one, I thought it was such a cool looking instrument.
I had the chance to play an original Proto 8 string of Tosin's at a clinic he did; Obviously the quality was about 100 times higher than any Abasi i've held after that.
So after playing his, I really wanted one. I knew better then to fall for the hype of the Legion series; But I did it anyway.

I've no doubt there's some pretty awesome quality Abasi's out there. (J larada, some Masters, etc.) I just don't know if I can take the plunge again for the money when there are endless other higher quality instruments for the same price or less.


----------



## bassisace

@XmO I’m with you, I think the Abasis look great. Unfortunately access to higher frets on Laradas is annoying for me and their return percentages are way too high to gamble.



diagrammatiks said:


> It’s a pretty good 900 dollar guitar tho



At that price I’d buy an Ibanez Prestige and be sure I’d get quality instead of gambling on Strandberg. Also, the Endureneck is the opposite of ergonomical, it limits options for thumb placement.


----------



## XmO

bassisace said:


> @XmO I’m with you, I think the Abasis look great. Unfortunately access to higher frets on Laradas is annoying for me and their return percentages are way too high to gamble.
> 
> At that price I’d buy an Ibanez Prestige and be sure I’d get quality instead of gambling on Strandberg. Also, the Endureneck is the opposite of ergonomical, it limits options for thumb placement.



I'd have to say I somewhat Agree...I like to noodle on strandbergs because of how light / portable they are; But I am not crazy about the Endurneck Profile.


----------



## CW7

bassisace said:


> @XmO I’m with you, I think the Abasis look great. Unfortunately access to higher frets on Laradas is annoying for me and their return percentages are way too high to gamble.
> 
> 
> 
> At that price I’d buy an Ibanez Prestige and be sure I’d get quality instead of gambling on Strandberg. Also, the Endureneck is the opposite of ergonomical, it limits options for thumb placement.



The ergonomics of Strandberg are definitely a function of your personal technique (Among other things). I've had numerous issues with carpal tunnel (surgery in both hands a year apart), and I found the Endurneck to be one of the easier necks to get along with. I am a thumb behind the neck player (classical style), so this also contributes to why it works for me, imo.


----------



## XmO

CW7 said:


> The ergonomics of Strandberg are definitely a function of your personal technique (Among other things). I've had numerous issues with carpal tunnel (surgery in both hands a year apart), and I found the Endurneck to be one of the easier necks to get along with. I am a thumb behind the neck player (classical style), so this also contributes to why it works for me, imo.



I also play with my thumb behind the neck (never over the neck, etc.) and so I am okay with Endurneck profile, but I can see how it would not be comfortable for some.


----------



## CW7

XmO said:


> I also play with my thumb behind the neck (never over the neck, etc.) and so I am okay with Endurneck profile, but I can see how it would not be comfortable for some.


Oh yeah- it's a very polarizing , love it or hate it situation.


----------



## diagrammatiks

bassisace said:


> @XmO I’m with you, I think the Abasis look great. Unfortunately access to higher frets on Laradas is annoying for me and their return percentages are way too high to gamble.
> 
> 
> 
> At that price I’d buy an Ibanez Prestige and be sure I’d get quality instead of gambling on Strandberg. Also, the Endureneck is the opposite of ergonomical, it limits options for thumb placement.



you could do both.


----------



## MrWulf

Frankly as a fan of the simplicity of superstrats Abasi's design feels like it is really over designed for the sake of being Abasi's unique instrument.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

MrWulf said:


> Frankly as a fan of the simplicity of superstrats Abasi's design feels like it is really over designed for the sake of being Abasi's unique instrument.



It's just something Tosin and Darren sketched out over drinks, it's not this future space mega ergo thing that folks keep pushing it as. 

It was designed by a guy who is good at making things look good with a guy that could play a surfboard with strings on it. 

Which isn't a slight as Darren is as great of a designer as he is shitty a person. So very, very good.


----------



## diagrammatiks

the kiesel version really makes it obvious what it is. 
a plank of wood with strings on it.


----------



## secretpizza

These secondhand Larada prices on Reverb are truly wild. Someone’s got a Legion 8 aquaburst up for $2650. I guess they’re charging extra for the relic job on the nut and neck joint?


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> Such a low bar.



Isn’t the Chinese-built Per Nilsson model considered well built by most owners? Also has a decent spec sheet which they cut priced lower due to being MIC. Never owned/played one though.


----------



## HellaSickTight

I love my strandy!


Mathemagician said:


> Isn’t the Chinese-built Per Nilsson model considered well built by most owners? Also has a decent spec sheet which they cut priced lower due to being MIC. Never owned/played one though.


the singularity is quite lovely! I like the new sandblasted bodies, and I’m always recommending it for people who dislike the endureneck because it’s got much more rounded edges and is closer to a regular neck. It’s still got that compound design though. Overall the instrument is about G+ more expensive for the true temperament frets which I find cool but unnecessary for what I do.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> Isn’t the Chinese-built Per Nilsson model considered well built by most owners? Also has a decent spec sheet which they cut priced lower due to being MIC. Never owned/played one though.



I haven't found one to try in the wild, and I'm not into it enough to buy sight unseen.

But I've bought and either quickly resold or returned half a dozen Indo models. They'd be decent at ~$900 and a deal at ~$750, but $2k+ is a fucking joke. Just so little care taken for final assembly, fit & finish, etc. After being rebuilt entirely, and doing some fretwork you're left with a fairly junky, ill-conceived bridge and, to me, a not very inspiring guitar to play.

But, plenty of folks love theirs, so perhaps I'm just super unlucky or incredibly picky.


----------



## Cyanide_Anima

Mathemagician said:


> Isn’t the Chinese-built Per Nilsson model considered well built by most owners? Also has a decent spec sheet which they cut priced lower due to being MIC. Never owned/played one though.



I have a Per Nilsson sig. It's an incredible guitar. Built very well, no real flaws. The fit and finish is pretty damn good. The pickups have a very 'paf' old, kinda squishy vibe to them which isn't to my taste but I plan on throwing some Aftermaths in it and then it's the perfect guitar for me.


----------



## HellaSickTight

MaxOfMetal said:


> I haven't found one to try in the wild, and I'm not into it enough to buy sight unseen.
> 
> But I've bought and either quickly resold or returned half a dozen Indo models. They'd be decent at ~$900 and a deal at ~$750, but $2k+ is a fucking joke. Just so little care taken for final assembly, fit & finish, etc. After being rebuilt entirely, and doing some fretwork you're left with a fairly junky, ill-conceived bridge and, to me, a not very inspiring guitar to play.


The bridge is definitely my main gripe with the instrument. They also don’t sand the insides before painting, but that’s about all the issues I’ve been able to find with mine. Hopefully they’ll have some cool new stuff at their big upcoming announcement.


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> I haven't found one to try in the wild, and I'm not into it enough to buy sight unseen.
> 
> But I've bought and either quickly resold or returned half a dozen Indo models. They'd be decent at ~$900 and a deal at ~$750, but $2k+ is a fucking joke. Just so little care taken for final assembly, fit & finish, etc. After being rebuilt entirely, and doing some fretwork you're left with a fairly junky, ill-conceived bridge and, to me, a not very inspiring guitar to play.



Yeah no, salary inflation has not caught up to price inflation for me to consider dropping $2k on MII. That’s “MIA/MIJ or equivalent” pricing and I don’t budge on that.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> Yeah no, salary inflation has not caught up to price inflation for me to consider dropping $2k on MII. That’s “MIA/MIJ or equivalent” pricing and I don’t budge on that.



I don't think they're "meh" because they're made in Indonesia or wherever, they're not great because no one cares. They sell well enough that improvement isn't high on the priority list. 

Sound familiar?


----------



## Mathemagician

Yep it does. It’s the hype/drop loop and I get it from a business perspective. And that’s why my point stands that I’m not going to gamble with MII/MIK at that price point without others already confirming superior QC. Whereas with with “flagship” MIA/MIJ there is an established baseline level of QC that can be expected. 

I’ll happily excuse country of origin if the product is good (like a LOT of epiphones in recent years - seriously guys).


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> Yep it does. It’s the hype/drop loop and I get it from a business perspective. And that’s why my point stands that I’m not going to gamble with MII/MIK at that price point without others already confirming superior QC. Whereas with with “flagship” MIA/MIJ there is an established baseline level of QC that can be expected.
> 
> I’ll happily excuse country of origin if the product is good (like a LOT of epiphones in recent years - seriously guys).



There have been plenty of issues with the MIA stuff thus far, and supposedly the MIJ hasn't been perfect either.


----------



## Chevygizmo

“Forums like this one are important, because we can look out for each other as a community. As unfortunate as this story is, it is not new – we’ve all seen it before. We’re warning you, because we wished somebody had warned us.” - Abasi


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Chevygizmo said:


> “Forums like this one are important, because we can look out for each other as a community. As unfortunate as this story is, it is not new – we’ve all seen it before. We’re warning you, because we wished somebody had warned us.” - Abasi




That didn't age well....


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Mathemagician said:


> Isn’t the Chinese-built Per Nilsson model considered well built by most owners? Also has a decent spec sheet which they cut priced lower due to being MIC. Never owned/played one though.



I had one that I sold a month ago. It was my main 7-string for 2 years, then I got the J7.

I liked the thinner Endureneck of the Singularity, but I disliked the stock pickups and the nickel frets. I had it modified with 57110 Jescar SS frets and Fluence Abasi pickups with a rechargeable battery pack.

My main reason for selling it was that, although I place my thumb behind the neck, the edges of the endureneck were annoying, especially while doing stretches that require moving the thumb a bit.

To echo what @bassisace said, the Endureneck is not ergonomic. After the long back and forth on ergonomics that I had with @MaxOfMetal in this thread a few months ago, I talked to my physio (specializes in musicians) and to a new friend who is a guitarist and an ergonomist. 

The fact that the Endureneck is three planes with two edges, means it hampers a lot of player adaptations in hand/wrist/thumb placement. To my understanding, an ergonomic object is not built to cater to a certain type of playability, but rather to offer a spectrum of adaptability so that each individual can find his comfort zone. In that respect, the Endureneck is far from ergonomic. If someone likes it, then great, I've decided to try something else.


----------



## HellaSickTight

My guitar arrived at Abasi this morning and my refund is already processed. I’m happy with how quick that was!


----------



## Marv Attaxx

This thread makes me happy that I just went with the "get a used prestige"-route 
Zero issues and killed my gas for anything else. It works, it's perfect and is a joy to play.
A prestige Larada would've been such a cool thing but I hope those guys get the problems sorted out soon


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> There have been plenty of issues with the MIA stuff thus far, and supposedly the MIJ hasn't been perfect either.



And this is why I always wait for reviews.


----------



## HighGain510

MaxOfMetal said:


> There have been plenty of issues with the MIA stuff thus far, and supposedly the MIJ hasn't been perfect either.



I haven’t played any USA models but having seen how rough that “b-stock” model looked, I’m a bit concerned they would rather sell that with a jacked up nut, nut shelf, and paint blems galore than actually fix the issues and send out a decent-looking flagship piece. 

I’m not sure what issues you’ve seen with the Japanese builds, my Larada J7 is actually very well-built and I haven’t had any issues with it. I’d be curious to hear what you’ve seen wrong on the J-series with your reference above, Max?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HighGain510 said:


> I haven’t played any USA models but having seen how rough that “b-stock” model looked, I’m a bit concerned they would rather sell that with a jacked up nut, nut shelf, and paint blems galore than actually fix the issues and send out a decent-looking flagship piece.
> 
> I’m not sure what issues you’ve seen with the Japanese builds, my Larada J7 is actually very well-built and I haven’t had any issues with it. I’d be curious to hear what you’ve seen wrong on the J-series with your reference above, Max?



A few folks in here said they handled Js with issues. Hence the "supposedly".


----------



## XmO

My Aristides arrived yesterday.
Spoiler: It's much higher quality / plays better than the Abasi. 
Also, my refund was processed yesterday from Abasi Concepts.
On to better guitars!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

XmO said:


> My Aristides arrived yesterday.
> Spoiler: It's much higher quality / plays better than the Abasi.
> Also, my refund was processed yesterday from Abasi Concepts.
> On to better guitars!




Great to hear. My 080 is my baby. My legion comes in today so we shall see it goes.


----------



## XmO

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Great to hear. My 080 is my baby. My legion comes in today so we shall see it goes.



Weird, it's like we went in opposite directions. Lol. Let me know how you like it. As stated earlier, I actually really enjoyed how the legion played; I just refused to keep it with the glaring flaws it had for the price.


----------



## bassisace

HighGain510 said:


> I’m not sure what issues you’ve seen with the Japanese builds, my Larada J7 is actually very well-built and I haven’t had any issues with it. I’d be curious to hear what you’ve seen wrong on the J-series with your reference above, Max?



Some J7s have less bridge pickup output on the high e compared to high b and other strings. I guess that's a pickup alignment/pickup design problem. I think @HungryGuitarStudent reported this issue to Ivan and they're working with Fishman on a new version of the pickups specifically for multiscale. Pickup alignement on Legions 7s is not the same as on the J7s, possibly for that reason.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

XmO said:


> Weird, it's like we went in opposite directions. Lol. Let me know how you like it. As stated earlier, I actually really enjoyed how the legion played; I just refused to keep it with the glaring flaws it had for the price.



I am cautiously optimistic about it. Mostly just want it to try the body. Don't be surprised if y'all see a black burl 8 on Reverb LOL


----------



## XmO

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I am cautiously optimistic about it. Mostly just want it to try the body. Don't be surprised if y'all see a black burl 8 on Reverb LOL


I do admit, I find the "strandberg/Abasi-esque" body shape more comfortable than most guitars. I play most of the time in the classical position, so having the body cut to sit that way helps.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

XmO said:


> I do admit, I find the "strandberg/Abasi-esque" body shape more comfortable than most guitars. I play most of the time in the classical position, so having the body cut to sit that way helps.


See I am a right leg guy which is why I love the wide Aristides body


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

https://reverb.com/item/36917678-abasi-larada-8-string-usa-built-2019-shell-pink

Legit? If so I might be buying


----------



## HellaSickTight

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> https://reverb.com/item/36917678-abasi-larada-8-string-usa-built-2019-shell-pink
> 
> Legit? If so I might be buying


Man I kinda hate the non-roasted maple and non-matching headstock. I totally thought it was fake until I read more that the guy custom ordered these specs.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HellaSickTight said:


> Man I kinda hate the non-roasted maple and non-matching headstock. I totally thought it was fake until I read more that the guy custom ordered these specs.



Too late. It is gone. I thought it was fake because I thought the orders from that time were cancelled?


----------



## CW7

diagrammatiks said:


> the kiesel version really makes it obvious what it is.
> a plank of wood with strings on it.





r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Too late. It is gone. I thought it was fake because I thought the orders from that time were cancelled?


It's legit. I have seen videos of the guitar in question being built. (as well as correspondence with Tosin and Ivan as to its production status).


----------



## Daniel Leu

Just a heads up to anyone that is still considering buying a Legion; something has seemed strange to me since the day I got my Overcast 7, namely the pickups. They sound great but size-wise always just seemed huge to me, both aesthetically and from a playability perspective. Wasn't sure if it was a normal 7-string issue as this is my first ERG but I compared some images of the 7's and 8's on their site and it looks like they're using the Abasi Fishman 8's for both models. I have literally no idea why this could be, other than possibly cutting costs on routing templates or possibly discounts for bulk ordering, but I like to pick pretty close to the bridge and the edge of the pickup passes pretty far out from underneath the strings which means I have to change my technique around a bit... 

I do still really like mine and this isn't a dealbreaker/reason to sell but I realize there are quite a few out there with their share of issues and want to give people as much information as possible.


----------



## cip 123

Daniel Leu said:


> Just a heads up to anyone that is still considering buying a Legion; something has seemed strange to me since the day I got my Overcast 7, namely the pickups. They sound great but size-wise always just seemed huge to me, both aesthetically and from a playability perspective. Wasn't sure if it was a normal 7-string issue as this is my first ERG but I compared some images of the 7's and 8's on their site and it looks like they're using the Abasi Fishman 8's for both models. I have literally no idea why this could be, other than possibly cutting costs on routing templates or possibly discounts for bulk ordering, but I like to pick pretty close to the bridge and the edge of the pickup passes pretty far out from underneath the strings which means I have to change my technique around a bit...
> 
> I do still really like mine and this isn't a dealbreaker/reason to sell but I realize there are quite a few out there with their share of issues and want to give people as much information as possible.


A lot of companies use 8 string pickups on multiscale 7's. It helps make sure the full range of strings is covered by the pickup. 

I don't know if it's the same on higher end lines but, it's not that unusual.


----------



## HellaSickTight

cip 123 said:


> A lot of companies use 8 string pickups on multiscale 7's. It helps make sure the full range of strings is covered by the pickup.
> 
> I don't know if it's the same on higher end lines but, it's not that unusual.


Yea! Fishman recommends using the 7-string pickups for multiscale 6s because the rails are longer. I assume it’s the same with the 7s using 8s pickups.

The more I think about it the more I wasn’t a fan of how far the slanted soapbars stuck out. I kept hitting it and scratching it with my pick on accident. I got slanted Lundgrens in my Aristides order I just put in, which I think will do a better job.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Okay so I’ve had some time with her. It’s okay. Nothing remarkable.

I love the neck and the number 2 position is great.
Going from the legion to my aristide

It’s like eating McDonald’s after you’ve had a fancy restaurant. Also I really dislike this shape being a right leg player. Pass. 

Only blemish is a mark on pickup. The nut is totally fine


----------



## HellaSickTight

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Okay so I’ve had some time with her. It’s okay. Nothing remarkable.
> 
> I love the neck and the number 2 position is great.
> Going from the legion to my aristide
> 
> It’s like eating McDonald’s after you’ve had a fancy restaurant. Also I really dislike this shape being a right leg player. Pass.
> 
> Only blemish is a mark on pickup. The nut is totally fine


So what you’re saying is: “THE MCRIB IS BACK!”


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

View media item 3538


----------



## Daniel Leu

HellaSickTight said:


> Yea! Fishman recommends using the 7-string pickups for multiscale 6s because the rails are longer. I assume it’s the same with the 7s using 8s pickups.
> 
> The more I think about it the more I wasn’t a fan of how far the slanted soapbars stuck out. I kept hitting it and scratching it with my pick on accident. I got slanted Lundgrens in my Aristides order I just put in, which I think will do a better job.



That makes sense. Glad to hear there's reasoning behind it and not a corner-cut. I think my next EGR will have to have slanted pickups in it.




r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Okay so I’ve had some time with her. It’s okay. Nothing remarkable.
> 
> I love the neck and the number 2 position is great.
> Going from the legion to my aristide
> 
> It’s like eating McDonald’s after you’ve had a fancy restaurant. Also I really dislike this shape being a right leg player. Pass.
> 
> Only blemish is a mark on pickup. The nut is totally fine



I'm assuming you're saying the Legion is the McDonald's in this case?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Daniel Leu said:


> That makes sense. Glad to hear there's reasoning behind it and not a corner-cut. I think my next EGR will have to have slanted pickups in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming you're saying the Legion is the McDonald's in this case?




Oh for sure.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

bassisace said:


> Some J7s have less bridge pickup output on the high e compared to high b and other strings. I guess that's a pickup alignment/pickup design problem. I think @HungryGuitarStudent reported this issue to Ivan and they're working with Fishman on a new version of the pickups specifically for multiscale.



That is correct, it is indeed a “feature” of J7s, which is possibly why Abasi is using 8-string pickups in the Legions as @Daniel Leu was saying.

I discussed this issue with Ivan after doing tests in Logic to quantify the dB difference between high e and b strings for the bridge pickup of the J7, which is a 7-string pickup.

Fishman is indeed working with Abasi to produce 7-string multiscale pickups with wider magnetic field to address this.

Comparing pics of the bridge pickup of J7s and Legion 7s makes the difference in alignment and string coverage pretty clear.


----------



## bzhang9

lol all these people flipping laradas for profit rather than returning them

100 laradas = 20k for reverb, tosin getting a cut?


----------



## Vroth88

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> View media item 3538



Cant open: You do not have permission to view media within this album.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Vroth88 said:


> Cant open: You do not have permission to view media within this album.




It was just the larada next to my aristides. For proof so people didn’t think I was making it up


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

bzhang9 said:


> lol all these people flipping laradas for profit rather than returning them
> 
> 100 laradas = 20k for reverb, tosin getting a cut?


Yeah it’s quite sad. I put mine up then decided to take it down because I’m actually going to give this thing a shot


----------



## odibrom

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> It was just the larada next to my aristides. For proof so people didn’t think I was making it up



Since we can't access that photo, I'm still thinking that... 

... just kidding, we trust your word, but we also trust guitar pictures, that's what we are all here for, to SEE guitar pictures we can droll at.


----------



## CW7

Pretty stoked for this one to arrive. 

View media item 3543


----------



## Ben Pinkus

Like the pink!


----------



## CW7

Accidentally deleted the pink 8. Also have this sick stealth J8 coming. Anyone interested in a head to head? (Legion also inbound to complete the triple threat match). View media item 3545












1775CCE3-3C07-420B-9661-9C6052D8678F



__ CW7
__ Nov 11, 2020


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> Accidentally deleted the pink 8. Also have this sick stealth J8 coming. Anyone interested in a head to head? (Legion also inbound to complete the triple threat match). View media item 3545
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1775CCE3-3C07-420B-9661-9C6052D8678F
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Nov 11, 2020



DId you sell that black 8? (the mahogany one)


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

CW7 said:


> Accidentally deleted the pink 8. Also have this sick stealth J8 coming. Anyone interested in a head to head? (Legion also inbound to complete the triple threat match). View media item 3545
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1775CCE3-3C07-420B-9661-9C6052D8678F
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Nov 11, 2020



The legion will be out tomorrow friend!


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> DId you sell that black 8? (the mahogany one)


I did/ I scored the pink one and listed it on FB and Reverb and it sold in an hour or so.


----------



## Lordcephid

What's a good guitar stand that can fit the Abasi 8?


----------



## jephjacques

Lordcephid said:


> What's a good guitar stand that can fit the Abasi 8?



Anything that has decent ground clearance should work. Something like this should be able to keep the bottom from hitting the floor:


----------



## Randy

Knock off the name calling. Also, no advertising stuff you're selling outside of the marketplace.


----------



## bassisace

At this point, did everyone who requested it get their refund?


----------



## CW7

Please- for the love of not overpaying, no one buy the Master 8 at 4k on Reverb. That was mine. I sold it at a deal because I got a sob story about needing a discount and how bad they wanted one. And within 24 hours of it being delivered it hits reverb marked up 1000 bucks. THIS is why the market is what it is. Sad.


----------



## jephjacques

Ugh that's so shitty


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> Please- for the love of not overpaying, no one buy the Master 8 at 4k on Reverb. That was mine. I sold it at a deal because I got a sob story about needing a discount and how bad they wanted one. And within 24 hours of it being delivered it hits reverb marked up 1000 bucks. THIS is why the market is what it is. Sad.


Ugh, that sucks. I was laughing at that guy with my GF over his sad story about his wife laying the law down on him about buying it. That alone says enough about him. 

Unrelated, now that you've had time to try some 7s and8s, could you give us an overview of your thoughts on them? Do you still have that black 7? Is it a keeper?


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Ugh, that sucks. I was laughing at that guy with my GF over his sad story about his wife laying the law down on him about buying it. That alone says enough about him.
> 
> Unrelated, now that you've had time to try some 7s and8s, could you give us an overview of your thoughts on them? Do you still have that black 7? Is it a keeper?



Absolutely- SO...

I don't have the black J7 anymore, BUT, that is ONLY because I snagged a black J8 prior to letting it go- I am generally more of an 8 player. Having the black Master 8 side by side with the 7, I gravitated towards the wenge neck more, along with ever so slightly preferring the oval/teardrop thing the J has going on. I know some people laught when I say "keeper", because I move a lot of gear, but the J8 is not getting listed anytime soon, at least that's my initial gut reaction. 

That being said- I sold the black master 8 (that's getting scalped now) because I snagged that custom USA pink one. I LOVE pink guitars ; SO, I will soon have the USA Custom 8 against the J8- The master was nice, but it just didn't do it for more like the J did. Who knows, MAYBE I'll be torn and keep both, but the plan was always to get a few side by wide to compare. I also got a good deal on a Legion 8 because I really wanted to see in person how they felt. That should be early this week as well. 

Hope that helps a little. I'll update once the pink USA vs j8 is done, and I've decided which one is THE one to hang onto.


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Ugh, that sucks. I was laughing at that guy with my GF over his sad story about his wife laying the law down on him about buying it. That alone says enough about him.
> 
> Unrelated, now that you've had time to try some 7s and8s, could you give us an overview of your thoughts on them? Do you still have that black 7? Is it a keeper?


I see it's gone. I SURE hope no one paid 3800 for that.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

CW7 said:


> I see it's gone. I SURE hope no one paid 3800 for that.




Sadly scalping things and being a piece of s$%^ isn't against Reverb's rules.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

I just don't get it, if people are that desperate to get one then it's also safe to assume they know what they retail for. Seems like it would be worth waiting for the next drop to save the $500-600 rather than jumping on an overpriced and used (potentially many times over) one on Reverb. I mean, I definitely GAS hard for some things, but never so much that I'd be willing to pay over retail for a non-collectible.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

People are just dumb

Have there been any public statements by Abasi about the quality control problems with the Legion series? I feel like there needs to be public acknowledgement


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Sadly scalping things and being a piece of s$%^ isn't against Reverb's rules.


Oh yeah I get it. Falls right into the game console thing on eBay. It's not illegal. Just in really poor taste, imo.

I'll also add... it's not that he re listed it. That's his prerogative. But to lie to my face with a whole story about how bad he wanted one , just to get the price he was after..that's just a clear example of his poor character, imo, and I have no respect for someone like that. He can have his "profits". I don't flip guitars for a living. And I can sleep at night knowing I didn't just lie to someone's face to get a better deal.


----------



## jephjacques

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I just don't get it, if people are that desperate to get one then it's also safe to assume they know what they retail for. Seems like it would be worth waiting for the next drop to save the $500-600 rather than jumping on an overpriced and used (potentially many times over) one on Reverb. I mean, I definitely GAS hard for some things, but never so much that I'd be willing to pay over retail for a non-collectible.



Considering how quickly the USA drops sell out, I'm not shocked people are willing to pay a premium on Reverb. I do think it's pretty underhanded to flip guitars like that.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> Considering how quickly the USA drops sell out, I'm not shocked people are willing to pay a premium on Reverb. I do think it's pretty underhanded to flip guitars like that.



Yeah it is pretty underhanded.

That along with the lack of public acknowledgment of the Legion series fumbles puts a bad taste in my mouth. I’ve said it multiple times that this company has disappointed in the way it handles its business.


I got a good legion but didn’t like the playability of the shape on my right leg. It is just saddening


----------



## CW7

One more due tomorrow for a little 3 way showdown... 

View media item 3561












D2CD1908-4164-4B6A-B09E-4EF3ABFBAC43



__ CW7
__ Nov 16, 2020


----------



## Hollowway

On the topic of flippers, there was a Carvin/Kiesel AC40 that was looking pretty cool to me on Reverb. It was a great price, and I thought about it for a day, and POOF, it was gone. Then I saw it a couple of days later for $250 more. I asked the guy listing it if it was the same one, and why he decided to part with it so quickly. I thought I would get a total lie, about “I just didn’t jibe with it / my car needs repairs / saving for a new build” or something. Instead he flat out said that this is what he does - buys and resells. I totally respected that. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t have a problem with people doing this specifically - what I DO have a problem with is someone who lies about it because they are too scared to just say they want to make money. The dishonesty and lack of candor is just bullshit - especially when they try to pull on your heartstrings with sob stories. 

(and I ended up buying the bass off that guy.  Shoulda bought it when I had the chance the first time around!)


----------



## narad

CW7 said:


> I see it's gone. I SURE hope no one paid 3800 for that.



Damn, just heard the other posts. Was about to send him an offer with a sob story.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

narad said:


> Damn, just heard the other posts. Was about to send him an offer with a sob story.




" My wife says I must sell cause I made impulse purchase." You would get some BS excuse for justifying his sale price


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I don't know why folks get so worked up about sellers charging what they do. Just don't buy it. If it sells, then the price was fine.

These aren't life saving medications or black market kidneys. They're fucking guitars.

As long as no one lies about shit, it doesn't really matter. If you drop your price because of a sob story, that's your own damn fault.


----------



## XmO

CW7 said:


> Please- for the love of not overpaying, no one buy the Master 8 at 4k on Reverb. That was mine. I sold it at a deal because I got a sob story about needing a discount and how bad they wanted one. And within 24 hours of it being delivered it hits reverb marked up 1000 bucks. THIS is why the market is what it is. Sad.



This literally happened to me by a specific seller on Reverb. Gave me this huge sob story on how he needed one of my guitars, it "spoke" to him and it was his dream guitar, etc etc. So I gave him a discount, and it was re-sold within a few days for over $1000 more.


----------



## CW7

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't know why folks get so worked up about sellers charging what they do. Just don't buy it. If it sells, then the price was fine.
> 
> These aren't life saving medications or black market kidneys. They're fucking guitars.
> 
> As long as no one lies about shit, it doesn't really matter. If you drop your price because of a sob story, that's your own damn fault.



As I stated, it’s his prerogative to do that. I just think it shows his poor character. If 200 bucks makes that big of a difference in his daily life, so be it. To me, it does not, and I’d rather rest easy knowing I didn’t mark something up and take advantage of someone because of some artificial hype. Had he leveled with me about what he wanted it for I’d have given him the same deal. It’s the principle of the matter.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

CW7 said:


> As I stated, it’s his prerogative to do that. I just think it shows his poor character. If 200 bucks makes that big of a difference in his daily life, so be it. To me, it does not, and I’d rather rest easy knowing I didn’t mark something up and take advantage of someone because of some artificial hype. Had he leveled with me about what he wanted it for I’d have given him the same deal. It’s the principle of the matter.



Like I said, I don't see how that reveals anything about someone's character. Maybe if he said his kid had cancer or his mother needs a new kidney and thus he really needs a new guitar it would be really tasteless, but saying he didn't want his wife to be pissed actually sounds pretty honest. 

There's nothing "artificial" about the hype. These are all hype. All hat and no cattle.

But hey, good on you for caring and doing what you think is best. Seriously.


----------



## CW7

MaxOfMetal said:


> Like I said, I don't see how that reveals anything about someone's character. Maybe if he said his kid had cancer or his mother needs a new kidney and thus he really needs a new guitar it would be really tasteless, but saying he didn't want his wife to be pissed actually sounds pretty honest.
> 
> There's nothing "artificial" about the hype. These are all hype. All hat and no cattle.
> 
> But hey, good on you for caring and doing what you think is best. Seriously.



You may have missed the part about what he told me. I haven’t outlined it here, but suffice to say he laid it on thick so as to get the best price possible. Hey\ in the end it’s his guitar. More power To him, i guess. Hopefully this is a one time purchase for him because now myself and everyone in my circle will avoid him/blacklist him. 
We agree here- I just had to vent a little. Cheers.


----------



## Dayn

XmO said:


> This literally happened to me by a specific seller on Reverb. Gave me this huge sob story on how he needed one of my guitars, it "spoke" to him and it was his dream guitar, etc etc. So I gave him a discount, and it was re-sold within a few days for over $1000 more.


If I've learned anything, it's to never discount after you've set on a price you're happy with. Someone will pay what it's worth, and if it's truly their 'dream' they'll know the worth of it.

If they buy it and still flip it for more, that's fine because you got exactly what you bargained for.


----------



## CW7

So in the coming days I hope to do some serious side by side action with these 3. (Spoiler alert, I think I already have an early favorite. ). Stay tuned... 













255A229A-2451-4AF5-9F61-739875A653FD



__ CW7
__ Nov 17, 2020


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> So in the coming days I hope to do some serious side by side action with these 3. (Spoiler alert, I think I already have an early favorite. ). Stay tuned...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 255A229A-2451-4AF5-9F61-739875A653FD
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Nov 17, 2020



If it's not the pink one I will be sorely dissapointed...


----------



## Soya

The pink one is usually the sorest


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't know why folks get so worked up about sellers charging what they do. Just don't buy it. If it sells, then the price was fine.
> 
> These aren't life saving medications or black market kidneys. They're fucking guitars.
> 
> As long as no one lies about shit, it doesn't really matter. If you drop your price because of a sob story, that's your own damn fault.



This is true, but I don’t want to turn into the type of jaded cynic that assumes that everyone who can’t afford a guitar I’m selling is a liar who’s selling me a sob story to flip the guitar. I just think people who aren’t up front are low character losers who need to be punched in the throat. That being said, I guess we all have to know they’re out there, and just imagine that they’re going to hit us everyone once in a while.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

It's a guitar. It's not this super rare impossible to obtain thing or the cure for some rare illness.

If dude didn't have a couple bucks you tell them you'll hold it for a minute and if they lose interest you know they're full of it

"My father's dying wish was that I'd get a Larada three to five business days from today for $200 off, I'm sure you understand."


----------



## Demiurge

Hollowway said:


> This is true, but I don’t want to turn into the type of jaded cynic that assumes that everyone who can’t afford a guitar I’m selling is a liar who’s selling me a sob story to flip the guitar.



It's not cynical to want people to be honest, though. If somebody wants to haggle for the sake of making a deal- I'm fine with that. If the buyer claims they don't have enough money, that's a humongous, enormous red flag and a no-go from me. 

If one doesn't have enough money to buy a piece of gear, then one shouldn't be buying gear. So either they're lying or they're about to make themselves broke, neither scenario I'd want a part of. If they're lying to get a discount, maybe they're not above lying about the condition/receipt of the guitar to get some money back. If they're legitimately broke after buying the guitar, they won't be able to send it back if there's an issue... and there may be some buyer's remorse-motivated shenanigans as well.


----------



## Randy

Previous few posts were removed by request. Moving on...


----------



## Jonathan20022

CW7 said:


> You may have missed the part about what he told me. I haven’t outlined it here, but suffice to say he laid it on thick so as to get the best price possible. Hey\ in the end it’s his guitar. More power To him, i guess. Hopefully this is a one time purchase for him because now myself and everyone in my circle will avoid him/blacklist him.
> We agree here- I just had to vent a little. Cheers.



I mean no offense, but you were the one who compromised and then agreed on a reduced cost. There's no amount of arm twisting that* forces* you to sell anyone anything and whatever cost they want.

While his actions should definitely be frowned upon, especially if his story was a lie. But I don't see how he did you wrong by listing the guitar subsequently at a value higher than he paid. Once you agreed to the lower cost, and shipped him the guitar it's now out of your hands and up to the new owner what to do with it.

And I will repeat, he's a moron. He didn't wait any amount of time, and did this in such a blatant manner that I can definitely understand why you are at the very least a tad bit upset. But if the same dude hit me up in the future to buy something of mine, I would absolutely still sell to them, refer them to the price on the listing and just say "*Price is as listed, feel free to purchase it*".

 I wouldn't be bothered though either way, I've searched reverb and found sold listings of gear I've sold before at much higher prices than my original listing/final sale price. Getting frustrated and thinking about it for longer than a few seconds is a huge waste of time, and not worth the stress associated.


----------



## CW7

Jonathan20022 said:


> I mean no offense, but you were the one who compromised and then agreed on a reduced cost. There's no amount of arm twisting that* forces* you to sell anyone anything and whatever cost they want.
> 
> While his actions should definitely be frowned upon, especially if his story was a lie. But I don't see how he did you wrong by listing the guitar subsequently at a value higher than he paid. Once you agreed to the lower cost, and shipped him the guitar it's now out of your hands and up to the new owner what to do with it.
> 
> And I will repeat, he's a moron. He didn't wait any amount of time, and did this in such a blatant manner that I can definitely understand why you are at the very least a tad bit upset. But if the same dude hit me up in the future to buy something of mine, I would absolutely still sell to them, refer them to the price on the listing and just say "*Price is as listed, feel free to purchase it*".
> 
> I wouldn't be bothered though either way, I've searched reverb and found sold listings of gear I've sold before at much higher prices than my original listing/final sale price. Getting frustrated and thinking about it for longer than a few seconds is a huge waste of time, and not worth the stress associated.



no offense taken. Sucks there’s no “tone” button on the internet. I was a TAD miffed because of the way he blatantly lied and then all but threw it in my face. But again- I’m fortunate... I don’t need to flip guitars to feed my family. Maybe he does . I can see all sides of the coin. It’s no different than trading stocks ; you take profits when you are ready and don’t sweat what you “could have made” had you Held a bit longer. Hell I like this pink USA more, anyways.  cheers.


----------



## narad

Jonathan20022 said:


> I mean no offense, but you were the one who compromised and then agreed on a reduced cost. There's no amount of arm twisting that* forces* you to sell anyone anything and whatever cost they want.
> 
> While his actions should definitely be frowned upon, especially if his story was a lie. But I don't see how he did you wrong by listing the guitar subsequently at a value higher than he paid. Once you agreed to the lower cost, and shipped him the guitar it's now out of your hands and up to the new owner what to do with it.
> 
> And I will repeat, he's a moron. He didn't wait any amount of time, and did this in such a blatant manner that I can definitely understand why you are at the very least a tad bit upset. But if the same dude hit me up in the future to buy something of mine, I would absolutely still sell to them, refer them to the price on the listing and just say "*Price is as listed, feel free to purchase it*".
> 
> I wouldn't be bothered though either way, I've searched reverb and found sold listings of gear I've sold before at much higher prices than my original listing/final sale price. Getting frustrated and thinking about it for longer than a few seconds is a huge waste of time, and not worth the stress associated.



I've definitely had potential buyers describe reasons why there's basically a sentimental reason for getting this guitar and I've catered to them. In the extreme sense, I've sent free computers and parts to people who were in tough spots. Whether they're actually in the tough spot means everything, and I'd be miffed if the circumstances the guy was presenting were untrue. 

I mean, would you not feel bad if you gave some homeless guy some money and then find out he's making $100k a year that way and driving a nicer car than you? We had instances of that in my hometown area as well. Basically what CW7 did with the discount was an act of charity.


----------



## Jonathan20022

CW7 said:


> no offense taken. Sucks there’s no “tone” button on the internet. I was a TAD miffed because of the way he blatantly lied and then all but threw it in my face. But again- I’m fortunate... I don’t need to flip guitars to feed my family. Maybe he does . I can see all sides of the coin. It’s no different than trading stocks ; you take profits when you are ready and don’t sweat what you “could have made” had you Held a bit longer. Hell I like this pink USA more, anyways.  cheers.



Absolutely, and I actually think it's great that you had the kindness to help others in need. It's just stories like these and stuff I read for example in this reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/jwglwt/what_was_your_f_it_done_helping_others_moment/

That makes me cold to sob stories, especially for stuff in the world of high end musical instruments . I'm glad you're getting on well with the USA build, I think at some point I'd be down to buying a Master Series if one is available with some matching aesthetics I dig.



narad said:


> I've definitely had potential buyers describe reasons why there's basically a sentimental reason for getting this guitar and I've catered to them. In the extreme sense, I've sent free computers and parts to people who were in tough spots. Whether they're actually in the tough spot means everything, and I'd be miffed if the circumstances the guy was presenting were untrue.
> 
> I mean, would you not feel bad if you gave some homeless guy some money and then find out he's making $100k a year that way and driving a nicer car than you? We had instances of that in my hometown area as well. Basically what CW7 did with the discount was an act of charity.



If someone tells me they can't afford the 4 thousand dollar Abasi guitar, then my advice to them is to buy within their means. There are few sob stories that would work to make me discount something I'm selling. Short of me owning an instrument that your late relative owned along with some basic evidence, I'd be happy to cater to that person.

In your example, yeah anyone would feel slighted to some degree. Problem is most times people are clever enough not to take your $30, and then pull the fake beard off and jump in their Mustang and flip the bird on you as they leave. You can either give money to the homeless/poor and keep the aftermath out of mind to the best of your ability, or let it go if you discover at some point in time that the person you helped was a fraud.

It's just not worth anything past the initial frustration/stress you feel if you ever find out. There's not much you can do, except take it as a lesson learned and just move on.


----------



## bassisace

Did anyone keep their Spartan? It seems like everyone had a negative experience with them.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

bassisace said:


> Did anyone keep their Spartan? It seems like everyone had a negative experience with them.



To each his own, but personally I didn’t like higher fret access and build quality. However, it did sound sick.

I received the JPXI I bought from Sweetwater yesterday. Pristine build, incredible playing experience. It feels like a 3000$ guitar.


----------



## CW7

Decided to keep the J8, so I’ll be letting the USA custom and Legion go.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

From the space teles teased I am guessing a run is about to happen


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> From the space teles teased I am guessing a run is about to happen



I had my money on it dropping tonight. But thats out the window at this point.


----------



## CW7

Yeah the old FAQ has space teles and Js in November. Masters next year.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

CW7 said:


> Yeah the old FAQ has space teles and Js in November. Masters next year.



Yeahhh probably got pushed back after the legion stuff


----------



## Lordcephid

hopefully they pushed it back to step up their QC checks


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Lordcephid said:


> hopefully they pushed it back to step up their QC checks




Doubt it. All they want is that hype money


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Lordcephid said:


> hopefully they pushed it back to step up their QC checks



Or because they have yet to be able to maintain any timelines they've set for anything, have scrambled to push out product when those dates have passed, and then fumbled the ball repeatedly when those products finally got into the hands of consumers. Meanwhile, their two main guys are smoking cigars, racing around in hot cars, and snapping selfies with models in the oh so picturesque LA sun (if only that entire sentence were hyperbole). 

Like @MaxOfMetal has said many, many times before, this company is cursed. How, at this point, we can continue to spend money on these guitars when there are hundreds, if not thousands of comparable/ superior options at or below the price point is beyond my comprehension.


----------



## Chevygizmo

Do we think the hype is dead? Every model
Is sitting on reverb which never happened before a drop. I’ve been contemplating for a while until reading this forum and opting for an artisides. Will they sell out in seconds on the next drop?


----------



## secretpizza

The space T is cool, but is there that much appetite for super high end, unconventional teles? I think telecasters are cool but have never played one I like more than my strats.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Chevygizmo said:


> Do we think the hype is dead? Every model
> Is sitting on reverb which never happened before a drop. I’ve been contemplating for a while until reading this forum and opting for an artisides. Will they sell out in seconds on the next drop?



Just buy some tiddies. You will be way more satisfied and not have anxiety waiting on it. I have 2 080 models and they're fantastic. In the process of purging my entire non aristides collection. 

@CW7 has had every version of Larada so far and he can give you comparisons. 

Go in wtih all the knowledge possible so you don't get hypeboned


----------



## Chevygizmo

@CW7. Are they worth it? I’m worried if I buy one on the stop, don’t like it, I’m stuck in the reverb graveyard like the J7s or Spartans. With the reverb fee, it’s hopefully a break even, at best now.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Afaik, the main reported problems were with Legions, Spartans and USAs, not Js. Both @CW7 and me have kept our Js, but returned our other models.


----------



## Chevygizmo

Ah. So if I test it. Try the Js. Steer clear of the USA Spartans and Tele. I’ll give the J a shot if they drop this round or might try reverb.


----------



## jephjacques

lmao at the guy who's spent the entire thread shitting on these guitars talking about buying one


----------



## CW7

Chevygizmo said:


> @CW7. Are they worth it? I’m worried if I buy one on the stop, don’t like it, I’m stuck in the reverb graveyard like the J7s or Spartans. With the reverb fee, it’s hopefully a break even, at best now.



yes- the Js are better ; they’re still a little hit or miss and I wouldn’t classify them as “flawless”, but the Spartan was BAD, and I’ve heard the same of the Space T (BUT I’ve not owned a Space T so take with a grain is salt). 

I had two J7s and currently own a J8 (which I’m keeping ). I also have a USA custom master series 8 which I like a lot , but I don’t have the space to keep two larada 8s so I’m parting with the USA custom. It’s VERY similar to the J in quality- fretwork is solid, action is slammed. Neck is thinner than the J too if that’s your thing . But I definitely put them in the same level of quality. For me I just dig the wenge of the J.


----------



## Chevygizmo

jephjacques said:


> lmao at the guy who's spent the entire thread shitting on these guitars talking about buying one


 weird coming from the guy that schemed them out of a second guitar then resells it. Sounds pretty credible. Also please reread my post Never said a bad thing.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Is that the sound of Ivan opening every. single. case. to check every. single. nut, I hear in the background there????? 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH_M1a9jlNc/?igshid=1ojmjpm7jtt2w


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

HellaSickTight said:


> Is that the sound of Ivan opening every. single. case. to check every. single. nut, I hear in the background there?????
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CH_M1a9jlNc/?igshid=1ojmjpm7jtt2w




Probably not. What is Abasi QC?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

And it so it begins....again.


----------



## HellaSickTight

I dunno about y’all but I’m loving the finishes! That pink sparkle and the teal blue are perfect IMO! Hope there’s no QC issues with this run.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Anyone grab one?


----------



## HellaSickTight

Lotsa cool stuff in there! Super tempting! But I just put a deposit on an H/08 and should probably just chill.


----------



## NCeuRign

I'm really tempted to pick up a Spartan 6. I was looking for any excuse not to and the nickel frets are enough to help me resist. I'll wait for a Master 8 instead.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Umm that Spartan blue dip looks like one of the older ones. Maybe a return?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Umm that Spartan blue dip looks like one of the older ones. Maybe a return?



nah, its a different one. Different grain patterns and black pickups instead of chrome.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Abasi Guitars Larada 8 // Legion // Overcast (Limited) 2020 Overcast Limited Edition
https://reverb.com/item/37310462-ab...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=37310462

3899? Lmao


----------



## Lordcephid

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Abasi Guitars Larada 8 // Legion // Overcast (Limited) 2020 Overcast Limited Edition
> https://reverb.com/item/37310462-ab...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=37310462
> 
> 3899? Lmao


holy shit man, if anyone buys this guitar should just totally wait for a master instead - would be much cheaper LOL


----------



## CW7

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Abasi Guitars Larada 8 // Legion // Overcast (Limited) 2020 Overcast Limited Edition
> https://reverb.com/item/37310462-ab...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=37310462
> 
> 3899? Lmao


This is a joke of the highest order.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Lordcephid said:


> holy shit man, if anyone buys this guitar should just totally wait for a master instead - would be much cheaper LOL





CW7 said:


> This is a joke of the highest order.



maybe she is memeing


----------



## HellaSickTight

Lmao “I got one for my son but he already got one”


----------



## BlackMastodon

This is going full on clown shoes.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

oh god it sold, I hope no one actually paid almost 4k for a fucking MIK guitar.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

KnightBrolaire said:


> oh god it sold, I hope no one actually paid almost 4k for a fucking MIK guitar.



Bruh same. That is hilarious. 

When the hype is so real, inferior versions sell for more than the superior ones.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Abasi Concepts is the new Wallstreet Bets. Jesus Christ I shoulda held onto my stock and traded when the reverb markets opened. Why did I return my instrument


----------



## Daniel Leu

HellaSickTight said:


> Abasi Concepts is the new Wallstreet Bets. Jesus Christ I shoulda held onto my stock and traded when the reverb markets opened. Why did I return my instrument



Haha I hear you. Debating whether I should put my Overcast 7 up. I like it, but not "worth $4k" like it.


----------



## Vroth88

I just recently returned my Legion 8 guitar (I decided to wait with shipping because of incoming holiday shipping pricing) because of issues with the nut and the neck wasn't properly carved for a premium priced guitar (something i didnt notice until I brought the guitar to my local luthier)

AC have now fully refunded everything, including the international shipping, both the original shipping to me and back to them, that is they paid twice the shipment to have it returned (I live in Europe, so the shipping is not cheap at all). I am very happy with their customer service and hope they will keep that up, but also hoping they will fortify their QC for their next run, and would recommend that they would put extreme effort into their 1-5x runs to establish consumer trust while perfecting their production (quality comes through iteration). But who knows why this QC slip up really happened, we can only guess

Will I buy another larada in the future? Only time will tell, I'm still inexperienced in this guitar world. I gambled on receiving a quality 8str guitar of Schecter-ish quality (but more expensive), which can be seen as crazy since this company is still new and this is only their 1st import production run, really hasn't earned that reputation that Schecter has. I can be very careless at times with such big purchases (maybe just GAS/hype and all that). But alas I guess that I was lucky that they honored my return with a full refund because of the issues and I respect them for that, they get 10/10 for that end! (which can't be said about every company)

I wish them the best and hope they will perfect their QC ASAP

I still dont have a 8str guitar to play with, but I decided to wait with purchasing another one. I bought myself a cheaper 28" chapman 6str baritone instead to explore the lower tuned world, and it's also my first passive pickup guitar. My other guitar is an old MIJ ESP Eclipse with EMG 81/60 with the four black knobs, before the Gibson Les Paul lawsuit happened (loving that guitar to death). So much left for me to explore!

Enough rambling, hope you guys gained something from this and wish you the best


----------



## HellaSickTight

Vroth88 said:


> I just recently returned my Legion 8 guitar (I decided to wait with shipping because of incoming holiday shipping pricing) because of issues with the nut and the neck wasn't properly carved for a premium priced guitar (something i didnt notice until I brought the guitar to my local luthier)
> 
> AC have now fully refunded everything, including the international shipping, both the original shipping to me and back to them, that is they paid twice the shipment to have it returned (I live in Europe, so the shipping is not cheap at all). I am very happy with their customer service and hope they will keep that up, but also hoping they will fortify their QC for their next run, and would reccomend that they would put extreme effort into their 1-5x runs to establish consumer trust while perfecting their production (quality comes through iteration). But who knows why this QC slip-up really happened, we can only guess
> 
> Will I buy another larada in the future? Only time will tell, I'm still inexperienced in this guitar world. I gambled on receiving a quality 8str guitar of Schecter-ish quality (but more expensive), which can be seen as crazy since this company is still new and this is only their 1st import production run, really hasn't earned that reputation that Schecter has. I can be very careless at times with such big purchaes (maybye just GAS/hype and all that). But alas I guess that I was lucky that they honored my return with a full refund because of the issues and I respect them for that, they get 10/10 for that end! (which can't be said about every company)
> 
> I wish them the best and hope they will perfect their QC ASAP
> 
> I still dont have a 8str guitar to play with, but I decided to wait with purchasing another one. I bought myself a cheaper 28" chapman 6str baritone instead to explore the lower tuned world, and it's also my first passive pickup guitar. My other guitar is an old MIJ ESP Eclipse with EMG 81/60 with the four black knobs, before the Gibson Les Paul lawsuit happened (loving that guitar to death). So much left for me to explore!
> 
> Enough rambling, hope you guys gained something from this and wish you the best


Hey dude, honestly you and I are EXACTLY THE SAME PERSON. I feel like our level of knowledge is about the same, and tbh we shouldn’t have had to go through this. You shouldn’t need to be a luthier to receive a great $2,200 guitar. I don’t think you’re foolish trusting one of the biggest names in the Prog world. As has been stated here so many times, most companies don’t have these problems. I also now have no 8-string. This is overall a huge bummer as I had an album I wanted to use an 8 on that I’ve had to push.

I took my refund and went straight to Brandon at Aristides, and I’m SO HAPPY with my decision. Like I got to choose every single aspect down to the color of the bolts and bobbins, and have a custom wiring setup. Of course it added a grand to the price, but I am confident I will receive a perfect instrument, capable of slamming the action without grinding the saddles down.

Thank you for sharing your experience with us! Cheers bud!


----------



## Vroth88

HellaSickTight said:


> Hey dude, honestly you and I are EXACTLY THE SAME PERSON. I feel like our level of knowledge is about the same, and tbh we shouldn’t have had to go through this. You shouldn’t need to be a luthier to receive a great $2,200 guitar. I don’t think you’re foolish trusting one of the biggest names in the Prog world. As has been stated here so many times, most companies don’t have these problems. I also now have no 8-string. This is overall a huge bummer as I had an album I wanted to use an 8 on that I’ve had to push.
> 
> I took my refund and went straight to Brandon at Aristides, and I’m SO HAPPY with my decision. Like I got to choose every single aspect down to the color of the bolts and bobbins, and have a custom wiring setup. Of course it added a grand to the price, but I am confident I will receive a perfect instrument, capable of slamming the action without grinding the saddles down.
> 
> Thank you for sharing your experience with us! Cheers bud!



Likewise thank you brotha


----------



## diagrammatiks

why does this keep happening. says group of people to whom exact same situation happens to all the time.


----------



## HellaSickTight

diagrammatiks said:


> why does this keep happening. says group of people to whom exact same situation happens to all the time.


To be fair I only found this group because I ordered the instrument. Fuck me right??? Definitely not their fault at all lol. I should have done my research on a guitar that has never been released before hahahahha


----------



## diagrammatiks

HellaSickTight said:


> To be fair I only found this group because I ordered the instrument. Fuck me right??? Definitely not their fault at all lol. I should have done my research on a guitar that has never been released before hahahahha



ya, not really directed at you. but this shit happens all the time for tons of brands.

search decibal guitars, brj Black Friday thread in this forum for some fun reading


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Vroth88 that sucks man. Did you lose money on the refund?

I’m still disappointed I lost 600$ in exchange rates between Canadian and US dollar for Legion and Spartan refunds.

Also a bit pissed I have to fill forms and mail them to get 700$ worth of customs fees reimbursed, which isn’t sure 100%.

That’s not the fault of Abasi Concepts, just an unfortunate byproduct of the situation.


----------



## Vroth88

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @Vroth88 that sucks man. Did you lose money on the refund?
> 
> I’m still disappointed I lost 600$ in exchange rates between Canadian and US dollar for Legion and Spartan refunds.
> 
> Also a bit pissed I have to fill forms and mail them to get 700$ worth of customs fees reimbursed, which isn’t sure 100%.
> 
> That’s not the fault of Abasi Concepts, just an unfortunate byproduct of the situation.



There was some money lost in exchange rates yes (and I read that shopify does the same thing as paypal regarding the refund fees, so AC might have lost some money on that end too).

Still waiting on the ~500$ tax/customs refund which supposedly takes some time, why do you think it's not 100% going to be refunded on your end?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Vroth88 said:


> There was some money lost in exchange rates yes (and I read that shopify does the same thing as paypal regarding the refund fees, so AC might have lost some money on that end too).
> 
> Still waiting on the ~500$ tax/customs refund which supposedly takes some time, why do you think it's not 100% going to be refunded on your end?



In what country are you in?

Im in Canada. I need to get ahold of the UPS broker to get the CBSA import reference number to complete the government reimbursement form, then wait months to see if my demand will come through.

Advantage of dealing with a (physical or online) store in your country is you get zero currency exchange rate bs. Lesson learned heheh.


----------



## Vroth88

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> In what country are you in?
> 
> Im in Canada. I need to get ahold of the UPS broker to get the CBSA import reference number to complete the government reimbursement form, then wait months to see if my demand will come through.
> 
> Advantage of dealing with a (physical or online) store in your country is you get zero currency exchange rate bs. Lesson learned heheh.



Im in Iceland, very similar procedure with DHL i think, I mentioned the original shipment number when sending the guitar back to the USA and they helped me fill in the customs refund form. Was hoping it would not take longer than a 1-2 weeks instead of months, I'm new to this so I'm not sure

Exactly, some local guitar stores that already sell the same brand (Ibanez, ESP, ..) can order the guitar for you if they don't already have it in their stock/roster and sell it to you directly I hear, so should be no chance of buying a lemon (as long as both parties agree on what makes a guitar a lemon) and then dealing with customs and exchange rates, something I might consider in the future when buying a new guitar hehe

Here's to hoping the best for our next purchases man


----------



## Matt08642

I get that these guitars are unique, but holy shit 2k+ for MIK guitars with issues out the ass and boutique availability... I just don't understand the hype lol


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Matt08642 said:


> I get that these guitars are unique, but holy shit 2k+ for MIK guitars with issues out the ass and boutique availability... I just don't understand the hype lol



I don't either. I had a Legion and sold it the very next day


----------



## Decimater1

Matt08642 said:


> I get that these guitars are unique, but holy shit 2k+ for MIK guitars with issues out the ass and boutique availability... I just don't understand the hype lol



Aesthetics on a Big name. How unfortunate this is that they are so badass from one place and so hit and miss from another.


----------



## CW7

Annnnd we have another direct scalp. Some dude Has a USA 8 just received from last batch and on reverb for 4k. Man I hate humans , sometimes .


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> Annnnd we have another direct scalp. Some dude Has a USA 8 just received from last batch and on reverb for 4k. Man I hate humans , sometimes .



Ugh, whyyyyyyyyy.


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Ugh, whyyyyyyyyy.



Yeah- like, I get it, "free market", yada yada, but man...There's dudes that would give right leg to snag one of these, and instead they're being bought up and relisted IMMEDIATELY for profit. I sure hope the seller gets caught holding the bag on that one. Scummy isn't harsh enough imo. Same with the game consoles. Kids that just want a PS5 or xbox and parents either pay twice the price or have to explain it's not coming until after the holidays.


----------



## CW7

ok- So not from last batch. I am already saucy from looking for a PS5 for my nephew the last few days and ruining into scalper hell. lol But still... Maybe the guy who got my black one will hit him with a good sob story and get a nice discount. I dig it, but not for 700 over retail.


----------



## joesguitarstuff

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Anyone grab one?



First post but yep, I did. Space T though. Kind of nervous after seeing this thread but


----------



## Lordcephid

CW7 said:


> Annnnd we have another direct scalp. Some dude Has a USA 8 just received from last batch and on reverb for 4k. Man I hate humans , sometimes .



i think that was 2 batches before. The batch where I got my night garden didn’t have this colour. If not I would have gone for it. Mine was from October release, in September they released those purple and reds. The one on reverb should have been from June. Highly doubt it’s mint at all


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

It’s be so funny if they just went a circle and there’s only like 5-10 buying and selling to each other without realizing giving sob stories


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

IMO drop sale structures lead to bad behavior.

This wouldn’t be happening if there were pre orders.


----------



## StevenC

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> IMO drop sale structures lead to bad behavior.
> 
> This wouldn’t be happening if there were pre orders.


This is true, but the problem with preorders is people getting upset, rightfully, when dates are missed. They went to this model specifically because that happened last time. If they're only getting so much capacity from Grover then this is the only answer, short of finding a different builder.


----------



## CW7

StevenC said:


> This is true, but the problem with preorders is people getting upset, rightfully, when dates are missed. They went to this model specifically because that happened last time. If they're only getting so much capacity from Grover then this is the only answer, short of finding a different builder.


I guess in the end , frustrating as it may be, it’s working for them from a marketing standpoint. Even with the QC “fails” they’re still getting snatched up at a quick clip. (I had a legion I listed for 1800 and it didn’t last 24 hours.)


----------



## CW7

StevenC said:


> This is true, but the problem with preorders is people getting upset, rightfully, when dates are missed. They went to this model specifically because that happened last time. If they're only getting so much capacity from Grover then this is the only answer, short of finding a different builder.


I quoted your post instead of the one ankle/ whoops. We are on the same page. I don’t see any other viable way for them to release these since it seems sporadic at best and they’re always in small batches from USA and J factories


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

CW7 said:


> I guess in the end , frustrating as it may be, it’s working for them from a marketing standpoint. Even with the QC “fails” they’re still getting snatched up at a quick clip. (I had a legion I listed for 1800 and it didn’t last 24 hours.)


My only issue with the QC stuff now is then not even publicly acknowledging their mistake.

They downright messed up and these fanboys outside of this forum probably have no idea.

ibmust wish they’d man up and admit they have a problem. I want to know how many legions were returned. We as a consumer have the right to know to make more informed decisions. This company is running on pure social media hype. Let’s see how long this model lasts


----------



## StevenC

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> My only issue with the QC stuff now is then not even publicly acknowledging their mistake.
> 
> They downright messed up and these fanboys outside of this forum probably have no idea.
> 
> ibmust wish they’d man up and admit they have a problem. I want to know how many legions were returned. We as a consumer have the right to know to make more informed decisions. This company is running on pure social media hype. Let’s see how long this model lasts


I don't really see what good posting "sorry about the QC problems" does if they're already refunding everyone who wants one.

If people can't tell when they receive a messed up guitar and they're happy with it, what does that gain? Like, it's possible all the bad ones are posted here based on the number of new users posting in this thread. Which amounts to, what, a dozen out of 200?

Im not excusing bad guitars, but if every unhappy customer gets a refund what's the problem?


----------



## Hollowway

Not that I'm in favor of runaway capitalism, but one way to combat this is to just list the guitars as to-bid items. If the guitars are getting flipped like this, it means that the price is below what the market will bear. I hate that it's the case, as actual musicians can't get their hands on it, but I'm not sure how else you'd be able to deal with it.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

I've never played one but why is the hype so insane? I don't see anything that would get me to buy one. If I wanted MIK with fluences, multiscale, and SS frets I'd just get a schecter. It has zero draw and 4k for something that probably cost the manufacturer 40% of that in the factory is insane.


----------



## Lada The Great

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I've never played one but why is the hype so insane?


Funky shape and famous player behind the brand.


----------



## Frostbite

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I've never played one but why is the hype so insane? I don't see anything that would get me to buy one. If I wanted MIK with fluences, multiscale, and SS frets I'd just get a schecter. It has zero draw and 4k for something that probably cost the manufacturer 40% of that in the factory is insane.


I mean I can only speak for myself, but it really just comes down to the body contours. I find a lot of flat top, arch top, or standard F type bodies to be a bit uncomfortable because I'm just fat lmao. Guitars always seem to slide away from me. Until I tried an RGD. The body contour was one of the first times I felt truly comfortable with a guitar on either leg for the most part. I recently got a Kiesel Osiris and it's the same thing. The body bevels have almost become a must for me haha. Tosin being attached to the brand means actually zero to me, I just think the shape would work really well for me since similar ones have in the past. Mind you, I also have not and won't be buying one until some decent ones get into the hands of people but that's at least why I'm interested. For the rest of people, yeah Tosin being part of the brand is probably one of the main driving factors.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

See the thing I disliked the about the shape in practice was the higher fret access felt so weird and I play on my right leg so there was all kinds of neck dive. All in all. I just lost all interest.


----------



## Frostbite

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> See the thing I disliked the about the shape in practice was the higher fret access felt so weird and I play on my right leg so there was all kinds of neck dive. All in all. I just lost all interest.


 Who the fuck plays the higher frets lmaooo0000000000000


----------



## Lordcephid

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I've never played one but why is the hype so insane? I don't see anything that would get me to buy one. If I wanted MIK with fluences, multiscale, and SS frets I'd just get a schecter. It has zero draw and 4k for something that probably cost the manufacturer 40% of that in the factory is insane.



I got one without trying because after playing my Majesty for long, ergonomics and comfort became a top priority for me. From time to time, I go back to my Schecter Loomis and find it uncomfortable and not wanting to play it for a long time (doesn't help that the guitar is heavy and I'm a pretty small guy). So watching Abasi's video on how he designed his guitar, I just knew that the comfort of the guitar was gonna be how the Majesty is. Ballsy move for not trying the guitar at all before buying and having it shipped halfway across the world to me, but I would say that the Abasi is actually more comfortable than the Majesty IMO. 

That said, I'm curious to see the Majesty 8 string. Might be a much better buy than an Abasi.


----------



## CW7

Yeah. My J8 got a cosmetic upgrade. And a sibling with 1 less string. 













CF21C29F-A57E-4B42-A6E6-DF4E06B99047



__ CW7
__ Dec 4, 2020





View media item 3592


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> Yeah. My J8 got a cosmetic upgrade. And a sibling with 1 less string.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CF21C29F-A57E-4B42-A6E6-DF4E06B99047
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Dec 4, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View media item 3592




Thats funny, i had bought that white J7 and in a moment of panic over potentially making a bad decision asked ivan to cancel the order. Im glad it ended up somewhere good!


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Thats funny, i had bought that white J7 and in a moment of panic over potentially making a bad decision asked ivan to cancel the order. Im glad it ended up somewhere good!


I think there were 2- I bought one the minute it went up. But I saw a white one later - like the next day, still available. Same with the pink. I know two who got one .


----------



## Trinity Prescott

This thread is stage 4 cancer.


----------



## HellaSickTight

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> My only issue with the QC stuff now is then not even publicly acknowledging their mistake.
> 
> They downright messed up and these fanboys outside of this forum probably have no idea.
> 
> ibmust wish they’d man up and admit they have a problem. I want to know how many legions were returned. We as a consumer have the right to know to make more informed decisions. This company is running on pure social media hype. Let’s see how long this model lasts


I mean I left lower-star updated review talking about how disappointed I was in having to return it and they posted it to their site... they could have easily NOT done that.


----------



## HellaSickTight

Hop aboard that hype train Rick Beato got his first 7-string


----------



## HellaSickTight

Lordcephid said:


> I got one without trying because after playing my Majesty for long, ergonomics and comfort became a top priority for me. From time to time, I go back to my Schecter Loomis and find it uncomfortable and not wanting to play it for a long time (doesn't help that the guitar is heavy and I'm a pretty small guy). So watching Abasi's video on how he designed his guitar, I just knew that the comfort of the guitar was gonna be how the Majesty is. Ballsy move for not trying the guitar at all before buying and having it shipped halfway across the world to me, but I would say that the Abasi is actually more comfortable than the Majesty IMO.
> 
> That said, I'm curious to see the Majesty 8 string. Might be a much better buy than an Abasi.


I’ve heard some fun rumors about that Majesty and I’m actually super stoked for it!


----------



## StevenC

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I've never played one but why is the hype so insane? I don't see anything that would get me to buy one. If I wanted MIK with fluences, multiscale, and SS frets I'd just get a schecter. It has zero draw and 4k for something that probably cost the manufacturer 40% of that in the factory is insane.


I don't know if you remember back to 2010 when no one cared about a company called Strandberg and then a guy named Tosin got one. What happened after that will shock you.


----------



## Demiurge

^And to think, Tosin the guy became Tosin the famous player without one. So maybe no one needs to spend a fortune to buy the guitar he touched last to follow in his footsteps.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

StevenC said:


> I don't know if you remember back to 2010 when no one cared about a company called Strandberg and then a guy named Tosin got one. What happened after that will shock you.



Oh yep, that'll do it. I'm generally pretty behind on context like that.


----------



## StevenC

Demiurge said:


> ^And to think, Tosin the guy became Tosin the famous player without one. So maybe no one needs to spend a fortune to buy the guitar he touched last to follow in his footsteps.


Tosin is probably the closest thing we currently have to a Jimi/EVH type in the guitar world, and people will buy anything that has a Jimi/EVH sticker on it. Nobody needs to buy any guitars, but they want the guitars of their idols.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

StevenC said:


> Tosin is probably the closest thing we currently have to a Jimi/EVH type in the guitar world, and people will buy anything that has a Jimi/EVH sticker on it. Nobody needs to buy any guitars, but they want the guitars of their idols.



I find that having idols just leads to disappointment and let down. You should play for yourself and learn as you not you trying to be like someone else.

I find that people have this weird outlook on things. Oh if I get this guitar created by EVH I’ll be better. The gear doesn’t make the musician. The passion for the music does. If you think you’re good and others say you suck, who cares. Life is too short to our doubt behind what you love so much.

I remember seeing videos on Instagram when these popped up of people doing thumping and all these things that Tosin does.


----------



## StevenC

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I find that having idols just leads to disappointment and let down. You should play for yourself and learn as you not you trying to be like someone else.
> 
> I find that people have this weird outlook on things. Oh if I get this guitar created by EVH I’ll be better. The gear doesn’t make the musician. The passion for the music does. If you think you’re good and others say you suck, who cares. Life is too short to our doubt behind what you love so much.
> 
> I remember seeing videos on Instagram when these popped up of people doing thumping and all these things that Tosin does.


Eh, I think it's incredibly elitist to be mad at people for connecting deeply with music. Creating music isn't any more valid than playing the music you love. And telling people not to enjoy something is the worst of all.


----------



## NCeuRign

I really want one because they both look good IMO and also look really playable. I had a beautiful EVH that I sold a while back. Part of me wanted to keep it but the Floyd annoyed me, and more so all the square hard edges made it really uncomfortable. After playing you'd end up with red marks everywhere where it dug in. I've got a PRS Tremonti on my lap right now that I'm considering selling. Again, it's beautiful but it weighs a ton and there are a couple of other really minor things that annoy me a tiny bit. I've got a JPXI that's really nice to play. I feel there would be analogies to an Abasi there - ergonomics and so on. That's why I want to try the Abasi.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

StevenC said:


> Eh, I think it's incredibly elitist to be mad at people for connecting deeply with music. Creating music isn't any more valid than playing the music you love. And telling people not to enjoy something is the worst of all.



See that is the issue with internet communication. I am not mad nor am I being elitist. I am just voicing my opinion that no one ultimately cares about.

People can do what they want. If they listen to me, god help them.


----------



## NCeuRign

As a lurker I highly value the discussion. It's very informative, especially the in-the-hand feedback, customer service and QA/QC stuff


----------



## Trinity Prescott

CW7 said:


> Yeah. My J8 got a cosmetic upgrade. And a sibling with 1 less string.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CF21C29F-A57E-4B42-A6E6-DF4E06B99047
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Dec 4, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View media item 3592



CW7: *hides in bushes outside of Tosins bathroom window refreshing his reverb feed for Laradas to pop up*


----------



## CW7

Trinity Prescott said:


> CW7: *hides in bushes outside of Tosins bathroom window refreshing his reverb feed for Laradas to pop up*


Almost. 

I am the first person to admit these are “overpriced” as far as what you get for what you paid. (I am not speaking in terms of the market and what it will beat ; only in physical build quality). 

BUT... they do bring something unique to the table, and that’s why I have a 7 and 2 8s right now. Between the Anderson’s, Strandbergs, Toones, etc..., the Larada have their own vibe. I am NOT a fan of redundancy in my arsenal, so if they were more of the same, I’d have long bailed. But imo they aren’t, and they inspire me to play and compose in a different way , and that’s what matters to me. Now that I have 3 I’ll leave Tosin alone.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> Almost.
> 
> I am the first person to admit these are “overpriced” as far as what you get for what you paid. (I am not speaking in terms of the market and what it will beat ; only in physical build quality).
> 
> BUT... they do bring something unique to the table, and that’s why I have a 7 and 2 8s right now. Between the Anderson’s, Strandbergs, Toones, etc..., the Larada have their own vibe. I am NOT a fan of redundancy in my arsenal, so if they were more of the same, I’d have long bailed. But imo they aren’t, and they inspire me to play and compose in a different way , and that’s what matters to me. Now that I have 3 I’ll leave Tosin alone.



One of these days you should post your quiver. I've always wondered which guitars connoisseurs such as yourself count as keepers.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I find that having idols just leads to disappointment and let down.


Someone give this man a cookie.



CW7 said:


> I am NOT a fan of redundancy in my arsenal, so if they were more of the same, I’d have long bailed.


And someone give this man a cookie as well.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

I read about 100 pages of this thread in the last few days. I’m just wasting my life at this point. lulz. Man. I came here hyped on Abasi now I def don’t want one; lol. Looking for a modern 8 string; the 2228m is starting to look/feel dated. The laradas look so sick. I will say the legion models look like crap for the money. I might just get a damn strandberg.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

While I’m talking trash.. anyone know what string gauges tosin uses now days? All I can find is info from his Ibanez era. Tired of my low strings feeling like bass strings. Also dude.... am I the only one that thinks the LACS laradas are the raddest looking ones??


----------



## I play music

Trinity Prescott said:


> i really hope abasi concepts gets off the ground. im assuming the trouble they've had is just hiccups a lot of companies go through. bleh.


Don't forget the guy is only a guitarist. He is not a luthier and he does not have a degree in business administration or anything.
Ola Englund who also started his own guitar company at least has worked as an accountant, guess that helps him avoid some errors.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

I play music said:


> Don't forget the guy is only a guitarist. He is not a luthier and he does not have a degree in business administration or anything.
> Ola Englund who also started his own guitar company at least has worked as an accountant, guess that helps him avoid some errors.


very true well i am in his corner hoping to see big things happen for em all


----------



## jephjacques

Tosin is still playing 74s with stupid low action, dude has a super light touch.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

jephjacques said:


> Tosin is still playing 74s with stupid low action, dude has a super light touch.


im literally researching string sets for eight string 27" scales right now. i hate it because i play more clean chill shit ... no djent or metal for me. so i am sort of an outlier in the extended range string discussion. ibanez 2228 came stock with 9-65 but that sounds silly since i spent the last 2 days online reading about 10-80 sets and 9-42 with 72-74 on the low end. bleh..


----------



## Trinity Prescott

I play music said:


> I agree that he came off as a bit cocky in the interviews I've seen. But judging from NGDs here on this site, the Frank Falbo builds are better than Abasi guitars. At the moment, I'd stay away from both.
> 
> I don't agree about the 2228m being too dated but if you want something else maybe look at the Aristides headless and wait for NAMM time (January) where companies announce new stuff. Between Ibanez, ESP, Schecter etc. there might be one or the other interesting new model.


yea i am not pressing it being " dated " i just have seen so much evolution with the 8 string since 2228 was the top dog. i think the lacs larada looked better than the abasi and the frank. the frank larada looks hella wonky to me.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Trinity Prescott said:


> While I’m talking trash.. anyone know what string gauges tosin uses now days? All I can find is info from his Ibanez era. Tired of my low strings feeling like bass strings. Also dude.... am I the only one that thinks the LACS laradas are the raddest looking ones??



NYXL 9.5 set with an extra 0.56 for seven string guitars. Dunno about the eighth string.


----------



## CW7

Trinity Prescott said:


> my preconceptions are that he seemed like a shady character immediately, even before the drama. but going solely off of the official statement issued by abasi concepts... i really dont read that as a blatant lie. and yes, luckily for frank, i guess there's no way to know. but it just sort of sounds obvious to me. why would they issue that statement in great detail and its just a blatant lie? nah. either way. im glad it didnt kill the company. i cant wait to see what they do. fuck that shrimp dick.



You’re entitled of course to your opinion, but I can tell you from numerous dealings with Frank that couldn’t be father from the truth. Does it not make sense that Abasi guitars would issue a “statement” that paints then in an ideal light? 
You’re making a lot of assumptions based on one party’s description of what happened. If you dig Abasi, that’s fine. I do too. I have 3 of them. BUT/ throwing Frank under the proverbial bus when you don’t have his side, nor have you spoken with him about it, isn’t really fair. There’s a LOT more to that situation than meets the eye.


----------



## Hollowway

I can give my 2 cents about Frank. I recently got a guitar from him, and he was super nice, very communicative, and incredibly humble. And the guitar is amazing. I’m not sure what happened with the Tosin situation, and I was initially on Tosin’s “side” when it went down (based strictly on hearsay), but now that I’ve dealt with Frank directly for a few months, I’m fully comfortable with ordering from Frank and giving him money. He seems like a genuinely nice guy who was very trustworthy.


----------



## Vroth88

The Legion had the following string gauges (so Im guessing that so does Tosin at most times):

Strings: D’Addario 9.5 NYXL + .056, .074


----------



## Trinity Prescott

CW7 said:


> You’re entitled of course to your opinion, but I can tell you from numerous dealings with Frank that couldn’t be father from the truth. Does it not make sense that Abasi guitars would issue a “statement” that paints then in an ideal light?
> You’re making a lot of assumptions based on one party’s description of what happened. If you dig Abasi, that’s fine. I do too. I have 3 of them. BUT/ throwing Frank under the proverbial bus when you don’t have his side, nor have you spoken with him about it, isn’t really fair. There’s a LOT more to that situation than meets the eye.



I’d be interested in hearing it because you can read the original statement then their response to Frank’s statement and it reads pretty straight forward. They’d have to be straight up lying in any other situation and it just really doesn’t appear that they are straight up lying. Let’s face it even if there’s a million details between the two parties, it all boils down to the statement being the truth or a lie. I actually reported my earlier comments and had them removed because Frank contacted me and yes he’s a super nice guy. He doesn’t have to say very much to become very likable. So I def want to sincerely retract any comment I made before this one about this situation. And yes I am just a ground level consumer. I don’t feel qualified to really have a counting opinion in this matter at all tbh. I went down a rabbit hole in this forum the other day and felt invested in the drama for a brief moment. It looks like both parties have moved on since this situation and are doing just fine. I def don’t want to disturb that.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

Vroth88 said:


> The Legion had the following string gauges (so Im guessing that so does Tosin at most times):
> 
> Strings: D’Addario 9.5 NYXL + .056, .074



why the hell doesn’t anyone make a middle weight string set for eight string guitars? Like a balanced 9-72. You can always get a 9-80 and swap the low strings but it throws the set off balance.


----------



## I play music

Trinity Prescott said:


> why the hell doesn’t anyone make a middle weight string set for eight string guitars? Like a balanced 9-72. You can always get a 9-80 and swap the low strings but it throws the set off balance.


They do? Framus Strings make 09-74 for example


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

https://reverb.com/item/37582354-abasi-guitars-usa-custom-larada-8-string


Why does it look like he just bought one of the black 8s and sanded the top down?


----------



## Randy

Hollowway said:


> I can give my 2 cents about Frank. I recently got a guitar from him, and he was super nice, very communicative, and incredibly humble. And the guitar is amazing. I’m not sure what happened with the Tosin situation, and I was initially on Tosin’s “side” when it went down (based strictly on hearsay), but now that I’ve dealt with Frank directly for a few months, I’m fully comfortable with ordering from Frank and giving him money. He seems like a genuinely nice guy who was very trustworthy.



I just think it was a big ugly business transaction, basically. I don't think there was anything nefarious as much as two people working on a fledgling business together for the first time and mistakes were made. For all the accusations that got thrown around, Frank has show his ability to produce a guitar someone paid for and Tosin has shown his ability to get his guitars made and delivered. 

Everything else that happened from A to B seems kinda immaterial at this point, considering those two facts.


----------



## SpaceDock

TheInvisibleHand said:


> https://reverb.com/item/37582354-abasi-guitars-usa-custom-larada-8-string
> 
> 
> Why does it look like he just bought one of the black 8s and sanded the top down?



Um, except for the flamed set neck.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

SpaceDock said:


> Um, except for the flamed set neck.



Yeah, I didn't mean a legion 8.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I've talked to Frank a few times and he's just really nice, down to earth decent guy. Haven't tried his guitars but I've only heard good things apart from Tosin. He usually pops up when his name is mentioned to say "Shhhhh leave me out of it".

Also I stopped getting email notifications for this which seemed okay, nothings changed in like a month.

And y'all convinced me the Abasi's weren't the move so I went to a local guy and got the cleanest and best sounding build ive ever played and if was less expensive than an import larada.













F4CB4613-BEDF-4776-BC94-D8EA4DDF1DA1_1_201_a



__ Jack McGoldrick
__ Dec 8, 2020



JKM


----------



## diagrammatiks

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I've talked to Frank a few times and he's just really nice, down to earth decent guy. Haven't tried his guitars but I've only heard good things apart from Tosin. He usually pops up when his name is mentioned to say "Shhhhh leave me out of it".
> 
> Also I stopped getting email notifications for this which seemed okay, nothings changed in like a month.
> 
> And y'all convinced me the Abasi's weren't the move so I went to a local guy and got the cleanest and best sounding build ive ever played and if was less expensive than an import larada.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F4CB4613-BEDF-4776-BC94-D8EA4DDF1DA1_1_201_a
> 
> 
> 
> __ Jack McGoldrick
> __ Dec 8, 2020
> 
> 
> 
> JKM



this is now the thread to post pictures of guitars that clearly should have been headless.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

diagrammatiks said:


> this is now the thread to post pictures of guitars that clearly should have been headless.


Nah behind the nut bends are too fun, play a chord with an 11 and then sharpen it, it'll convert you


----------



## cip 123

diagrammatiks said:


> this is now the thread to post pictures of guitars that clearly should have been headless.


Should I just post my Abasi headless on every new page then?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

The one on reverb is gone. Watch it be scalped for 4K in 3-4 days ha


----------



## HellaSickTight

I was on "Tosin's side" at first as well, but then I watched this video with Frank and it totally changed my mind about what went down. This simply sounds like an inexperienced company pushing a builder to grow too fast, and an impatient Japanese market buyer taking possession of unfinished instruments. I think this drama really needs to die. Frank is a super rad dude.


----------



## narad

HellaSickTight said:


> I was on "Tosin's side" at first as well, but then I watched this video with Frank and it totally changed my mind about what went down. This simply sounds like an inexperienced company pushing a builder to grow too fast, and an impatient Japanese market buyer taking possession of unfinished instruments. I think this drama really needs to die. Frank is a super rad dude.




Yea, Abasi neck gap-gate was not SSO's proudest moment. But there's still a lot of drama and mystery regarding the end of Falbo-Abasi guitars, lilkely more than I would dismiss as growing too quickly. Absolutely looking forward to the Lifetime Original Movie, "An Infinite Regression: The Falbo-Abasi Guitars Story".


----------



## Dayn

narad said:


> Yea, Abasi neck gap-gate was not SSO's proudest moment. But there's still a lot of drama and mystery regarding the end of Falbo-Abasi guitars, lilkely more than I would dismiss as growing too quickly. Absolutely looking forward to the Lifetime Original Movie, "An Infinite Regression: The Falbo-Abasi Guitars Story".


The cognitive contortions people get themselves into about isolated incidents...


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I thought people played the falbo guitars and they were not great, hense why they’re sitting on digi years later


----------



## DeathByButterslax

Do people like these guitars or not


----------



## CW7

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I thought people played the falbo guitars and they were not great, hense why they’re sitting on digi years later


Even those aren’t 100% “Frank’s”. I won’t speak for fun, but I can tell you that it’s my understanding those are “unfinished” at best, and not representive of his final work. He’s EXTREMELY knowledgeable and really understands what goes into building a great guitar. (It’s why he’s building me a custom 8 as we speak. ).


----------



## Spicypickles

Ugh oh. We got Gary Clark Junior rocking a possible one off, or already a copy??

Joe Rogan just posted the picture up on his Instagram. I’m trying to post it but it’s telling me the file is too large and I really can’t be bothered currently


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Spicypickles said:


> Ugh oh. We got Gary Clark Junior rocking a possible one off, or already a copy??
> 
> Joe Rogan just posted the picture up on his Instagram. I’m trying to post it but it’s telling me the file is too large and I really can’t be bothered currently



Gary Clark Jr is not someone I expected to play one he hasn’t even played Teles i thought but sure


----------



## Spicypickles

Tons of people commenting on the guitar, I just didn’t recognize that headstock. 

yea he’s always been a mostly hollow body guy


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

If it was Abasi they would be plastering it all over their social media!


----------



## StevenC

Spicypickles said:


> Ugh oh. We got Gary Clark Junior rocking a possible one off, or already a copy??
> 
> Joe Rogan just posted the picture up on his Instagram. I’m trying to post it but it’s telling me the file is too large and I really can’t be bothered currently


That is indeed one of the Space T's. Abasi commented and posted it on their Instagram Story.


----------



## Spicypickles

StevenC said:


> That is indeed one of the Space T's. Abasi commented and posted it on their Instagram Story.


Yea, just saw that. Is that headstock shape a one off? Or is that the space tele shape? 

also, Gary Clark jr is t a big dude, but dwarfs that guitar


----------



## StevenC

Spicypickles said:


> Yea, just saw that. Is that headstock shape a one off? Or is that the space tele shape?
> 
> also, Gary Clark jr is t a big dude, but dwarfs that guitar


That's they're headstock for the teles. As far as I can tell it's just a regular Space T.


----------



## Spicypickles

Fair enough, hadn’t seen the headstock, thought it was the same as the other Abasis


----------



## BlackMastodon

I was about to ask where the fuck they're having live concerts right now and then remembered that Joe moved to Austin, so I'm not surprised that the answer is Texas.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

ok im sleeping on the larada for now. i wanna see how this unfolds. my j custom and 2228m can keep me busy for a lil while longer


----------



## Trinity Prescott

Trinity Prescott said:


> ok im sleeping on the larada for now. i wanna see how this unfolds. my j custom and 2228m can keep me busy for a lil while longer


Unless someone wants to trade me a Legion for my J Custom. I’d prob do the trade even tho the Legion series prob won’t hold value for shit across time


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Trinity Prescott said:


> Unless someone wants to trade me a Legion for my J Custom. I’d prob do the trade even tho the Legion series prob won’t hold value for shit across time



Chill. The Legion was Ibanez Premium quality. Don't trade your J custom for that. They really aren't very impressive


----------



## KnightBrolaire

for anyone asking about the space tele Gary Clark Jr was playing, it's a legit one.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I appreciate the permanently on pre order


----------



## diagrammatiks

it's extra funny because aren't they doing an acoustic for real?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

diagrammatiks said:


> it's extra funny because aren't they doing an acoustic for real?



why though, it’s a high end electric guitar company, high end acoustic guitars is a whole other world


----------



## StevenC

diagrammatiks said:


> it's extra funny because aren't they doing an acoustic for real?


Tosin mentioned once if Abasi should do one of those acoustic hybrid things they use all the time. 


Jack McGoldrick said:


> why though, it’s a high end electric guitar company, high end acoustic guitars is a whole other world


Probably because Animals as Leaders use those acoustic hybrid things all the time.


----------



## cip 123

Jack McGoldrick said:


> I appreciate the permanently on pre order


I am really tempted to do a Semi hollow Abasi, but I'd rather Tosin didn't hate me


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

cip 123 said:


> I am really tempted to do a Semi hollow Abasi, but I'd rather Tosin didn't hate me



i play jazz so I’m all for it, just to know “this isn’t it”


----------



## Trinity Prescott

I was hoping that Space T would be mentioned on the JRE episode. At a couple points during the podcast I felt like it was so close to being mentioned, lol..


----------



## Trinity Prescott

Tbh I think the legions look dope. They have the right pickups and tuning machines. The right neck and body design. All the things I want the abasi shit for anyways. My 2228m is killing me. Lol.


----------



## StevenC

Nobody panic, the email is just wishing us a happy new year.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

StevenC said:


> Nobody panic, the email is just wishing us a happy new year.


I think the last thing anyone is doing is panicking lol.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I just got an overcast legion 8. Everything is fine on it.
Plays totally different from the black burl one I had. I dig this one a lot more.


----------



## Grickman

Been lurking these forums. Looks like tosin is getting ready for another drop


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Grickman said:


> Been lurking these forums. Looks like tosin is getting ready for another drop



in March. 

would be awesome to have some more legions though


----------



## Grickman

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> in March.
> 
> would be awesome to have some more legions though


Yeah. 

I'm not certain if I want to gamble on one given the QC horror stories I've heard, but I'm dabbling with getting my first ER guitar. Maybe 7, maybe 8. Anyways, let's see what happens


----------



## ThePIGI King

Grickman said:


> Yeah.
> 
> I'm not certain if I want to gamble on one given the QC horror stories I've heard, but I'm dabbling with getting my first ER guitar. Maybe 7, maybe 8. Anyways, let's see what happens


I'm a little late to the party, I wasn't really aware of Legion horror stories however. I thought the general consensus was pretty good?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

ThePIGI King said:


> I'm a little late to the party, I wasn't really aware of Legion horror stories however. I thought the general consensus was pretty good?



not sure. The horror stories were on the limited gloss painted models which there were only 25 of each made. I remember at least 5 blue sage being messed up and returned


----------



## ThePIGI King

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> not sure. The horror stories were on the limited gloss painted models which there were only 25 of each made. I remember at least 5 blue sage being messed up and returned


Ouch. I really wish these weren't batch made so they were more readily available to try. After getting my Strandberg I'm interested in multiscale and wanting to branch out to see if other guitars non-Ibby are for me. And the legion checks a lot of boxes.

So the non-limited burled ones didn't have the issues?


----------



## Grickman

My issue is more - cool guitar (legion) but at $2k, why not spend a little more for something flawless? At that pricepoint, you shouldn't have to deal with risk ha.


----------



## MrWulf

Considering i can splurge 2.7k or so for a Balaguer Tartarus that is semi custom with infinitely bettee QC? Yes


----------



## ThePIGI King

MrWulf said:


> Considering i can splurge 2.7k or so for a Balaguer Tartarus that is semi custom with infinitely bettee QC? Yes


You mean an extra $1k gets you better QC? Who would have ever thought that was a thing...Legions are only $1800 (IIRC)

That's also a totally different guitar. Like comparing apples and peanut butter.


----------



## MrWulf

Even at 1.8k i'd rather get a Schecter for something that is actually reliable and high quality in the same price bracket but hey if mediocre QC'd spaceman shape guitar that get you hot and bothered at night then feels free to take the risk.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MrWulf said:


> Considering i can splurge 2.7k or so for a Balaguer Tartarus that is semi custom with infinitely bettee QC? Yes



Thinking small. Get Aristides. Flawless amazing instruments.


----------



## Grickman

Yeah, I'd probably go aristedes. That's over $3k tho, almost double.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

ThePIGI King said:


> You mean an extra $1k gets you better QC? Who would have ever thought that was a thing...Legions are only $1800 (IIRC)
> 
> That's also a totally different guitar. Like comparing apples and peanut butter.


I got a guitar from my local luthier full bells and whistles and it’s near flawless for less than a legion


----------



## CW7

Grickman said:


> Yeah, I'd probably go aristedes. That's over $3k tho, almost double.


Not to derail but you can land an Aristides for 2k if you’re watching the used market . And yeah- their QC is almost otherworldly.


----------



## bassisace

ThePIGI King said:


> Ouch. I really wish these weren't batch made so they were more readily available to try. After getting my Strandberg I'm interested in multiscale and wanting to branch out to see if other guitars non-Ibby are for me. And the legion checks a lot of boxes.
> 
> So the non-limited burled ones didn't have the issues?



Heard about bad nuts, cracket fretboards, tool marks on pickups and finish, bad paint jobs, warped necks and bad fret jobs. It doesn't mean they're all bad, but there have been QC issues across the Legion, Japanese and US models as far as I know.



r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Thinking small. Get Aristides. Flawless amazing instruments.



I'd be wary of the tone of an Aristides. All videos I hear sound like fizz city and I'm skeptical that you can get similar tone to wood-based guitars. Maybe I'm ignorant.


----------



## Grickman

can't say I've heard that personally. I've never played one, though.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

bassisace said:


> I'd be wary of the tone of an Aristides. All videos I hear sound like fizz city and I'm skeptical that you can get similar tone to wood-based guitars. Maybe I'm ignorant.


yes to the latter. 
They don't have some magical fizz sound related to the material (I own 2), most likely it's the end result from the recorder's rig/mic setup.


----------



## Vyn

KnightBrolaire said:


> yes to the latter.
> They don't have some magical fizz sound related to the material (I own 2), most likely it's the end result from the recorder's rig/mic setup.



FWIW, most of the dudes who have done tone demos with these, I don't like their tone demos for normal wood guitars either. Definitely the player, not the material being the problem I think.


----------



## jephjacques

Yeah Aristides sound like normal guitars.


----------



## CW7

bassisace said:


> Heard about bad nuts, cracket fretboards, tool marks on pickups and finish, bad paint jobs, warped necks and bad fret jobs. It doesn't mean they're all bad, but there have been QC issues across the Legion, Japanese and US models as far as I know.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be wary of the tone of an Aristides. All videos I hear sound like fizz city and I'm skeptical that you can get similar tone to wood-based guitars. Maybe I'm ignorant.


Ill echo what has been said many times already, Aristides sound just as good, some would argue better , than wood . They resonate like no ones business. Any fizz is an end user tone problem, not one I inherent to the guitar.


----------



## Albake21

CW7 said:


> Aristides sound just as good, some would argue better , than wood . They resonate like no ones business. Any fizz is an end user tone problem, not one I inherent to the guitar.


Very much this. I really miss my 060 mainly because of how resonate it was. Unlike any guitar I've ever played.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

CW7 said:


> Ill echo what has been said many times already, Aristides sound just as good, some would argue better , than wood . They resonate like no ones business. Any fizz is an end user tone problem, not one I inherent to the guitar.



I’d definitely like to try one out (before considering buying). Unfortunately that’s not possible. I wouldn’t take a gamble on the neck profile.


----------



## CW7

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I’d definitely like to try one out (before considering buying). Unfortunately that’s not possible. I wouldn’t take a gamble on the neck profile.


That’s fair . That’s definitely something we all have our own likes/dislikes with.


----------



## Bassnguitar

maybe a stupid question but, how do you bend strings above the ~13th fret on a Larada 8? 

I bend using my thumb above the neck + wrist, and the body seems to block the top part of the neck pretty early on those guitars.


----------



## StevenC

Bassnguitar said:


> maybe a stupid question but, how do you bend strings above the ~13th fret on a Larada 8?
> 
> I bend using my thumb above the neck + wrist, and the body seems to block the top part of the neck pretty early on those guitars.


How would you bend the higher frets of a Les Paul?


----------



## den_3k

Bassnguitar said:


> maybe a stupid question but, how do you bend strings above the ~13th fret on a Larada 8?
> 
> I bend using my thumb above the neck + wrist, and the body seems to block the top part of the neck pretty early on those guitars.



And you doing so on 8 string guitar? Can't believe into that. I can't even remember last time when my thumb was above the neck on 8 string guitar.


----------



## ThePIGI King

den_3k said:


> And you doing so on 8 string guitar? Can't believe into that. I can't even remember last time when my thumb was above the neck on 8 string guitar.


I'm not much of a thumb-over-the-top kind of guy in regards to bends, but I just picked up my RG8 and I can certainly bend perfectly fine with my thumb over all the way to fret 18, and the 19th it's still not uncomfortable. And my hands are of average size.


----------



## den_3k

ThePIGI King said:


> I'm not much of a thumb-over-the-top kind of guy in regards to bends, but I just picked up my RG8 and I can certainly bend perfectly fine with my thumb over all the way to fret 18, and the 19th it's still not uncomfortable. And my hands are of average size.


I am not saying that this is impossible. It's just uncomfortable. I can't see any problem to do bends while keeping my thumb on the back of the neck at any fret. Especially when we talking about 8 strings.


----------



## Bassnguitar

I have above average hand size: 8.8 inches from wrist to tip of middle finger


----------



## StevenC

Bassnguitar said:


> I have above average hand size: 8.8 inches from wrist to tip of middle finger


What's this got to do with bad technique? But your thumb on the back of the neck where it is meant to go.

Thumb-over players have been bending the 22nd fret on Les Pauls for decades without a problem. If you can't adjust to larger singlecuts, the problem is your technique not the guitar.


----------



## StevenC

Drop of Larada 8 Masters today at 3pm PST


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Anyone going for one?


----------



## jyym

My hype for these is over. Another “drop” structured release, sneaker bots, resellers...


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

The email was very vague, are they only putting out 8s?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Yeah I think the master series is 8’s only


----------



## Grickman

8 isn't for me. would consider a 7 legion or J Larada.

i love the look, but i'll probably keep scouring reverb for an aristides


----------



## BradleyAllan

Def gonna grab one of these today. A little skeptical about some of the feedback regarding QC. Regardless it’ll hold its value in the resale market if it doesnt check the boxes. Any one else grabbing one today?


----------



## NCeuRign

Got the 8 Black Beauty. There was no time to even think about alternatives, all gone by the time I got back to the main page. I wanted black pups but would have preferred non-gold hardware. I would have considered the solar storm or solarbeam yellow if I had time to breathe.


----------



## Grickman

NCeuRign said:


> Got the 8 Black Beauty. There was no time to even think about alternatives, all gone by the time I got back to the main page. I wanted black pups but would have preferred non-gold hardware. I would have considered the solar storm or solarbeam yellow if I had time to breathe.


I had the relic in cart but just couldn't get myself to pull the trigger


----------



## kisielk

What was the pricing like for this run? They don't show the prices any more now that they're sold


----------



## jbaxter

kisielk said:


> What was the pricing like for this run? They don't show the prices any more now that they're sold


$3,600 if i remember right.


----------



## CW7

kisielk said:


> What was the pricing like for this run? They don't show the prices any more now that they're sold


 3699 (I got the gold champagne).


----------



## Grickman

jbaxter said:


> $3,600 if i remember right.


32-3700 I believe.


----------



## kisielk

CW7 said:


> 3699 (I got the gold champagne).


Oh sweet, that's the one I would have gone for! Please post about it after you get some time with it


----------



## CW7

kisielk said:


> Oh sweet, that's the one I would have gone for! Please post about it after you get some time with it


Absolutely. Will update when she lands


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

CW7 said:


> Absolutely. Will update when she lands


Is the toone in your profile yours? Looks killer


----------



## CW7

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Is the toone in your profile yours? Looks killer


It is . And it’s beyond description (as you probably can guess). It’s jaw dropping in person


----------



## Yelir

I would scoop at that price for a cute cat painted Abasi but otherwise maybe I'll end up with a Legion.


----------



## NCeuRign

CW7 said:


> 3699 (I got the gold champagne).


3399 for my plainer one. Champagne was the priciest I think?


----------



## narad

Yelir said:


> I would scoop at that price for a cute cat painted Abasi but otherwise maybe I'll end up with a Legion.



I want the cat one. Was that custom or Abasi actually produced that as an option?


----------



## Yelir

narad said:


> I want the cat one. Was that custom or Abasi actually produced that as an option?


I've never seen it listed on any sites thus far. If I had to guess I'd bet around 10 exist between influencers.


----------



## Yelir

I asked Jared Dines on Twitch about the custom Abasi:
- "Just ask them for one, they'll probably make it for you."


----------



## den_3k

Waiting when you guys receive these axes and tell us about build quality. I've missed this batch, probably next time (I think it would be September), anyway available color options was not for me except for probably Solar Storm, but previous one with flamed maple neck was much more interesting ... but different fingerboards, painted vs not painted headstock ... I don't know.


----------



## bassisace

I'm also thinking about getting an 8 in the future, but I'd have to see clear signs that they tightened up their QC.



BradleyAllan said:


> Def gonna grab one of these today. A little skeptical about some of the feedback regarding QC. Regardless it’ll hold its value in the resale market if it doesnt check the boxes. Any one else grabbing one today?



Skeptical about the feedback or about the QC itself? The photos posted in this thread don't really lie.


----------



## CW7

den_3k said:


> Waiting when you guys receive these axes and tell us about build quality. I've missed this batch, probably next time (I think it would be September), anyway available color options was not for me except for probably Solar Storm, but previous one with flamed maple neck was much more interesting ... but different fingerboards, painted vs not painted headstock ... I don't know.



So I’ve now had like 6 Master 8s pass through. I can say this. It’s “good” but not over the top (not what I expect out of an almost 4k instrument). I haven’t had one that I didn’t have to send to my guy for some quick fret leveling and saddle adjustment. BUT- they bring something unique to the table so I keep buying them. Lol 

I have two Js (a 7 and 8). They’re both potential keepers. I’m anxious to see if this USA good sparkle 8 can stay in the mix. (The last one I had was that sparkle burst with the flamed neck ; it was cool but I realized I’m not a fan of a burst on an Uber modern 8. Just didn’t vibe with it). 
I guess what I’m saying is I am very cautiously optimistic; as long as it comes in like the previous ones I know in 30 minutes I can have the action slammed and ready to rip, and in good with that. I’ll update next week (gold sparkle is due Wednesday. They wasted NO time getting those out the door!).


----------



## CW7

den_3k said:


> Waiting when you guys receive these axes and tell us about build quality. I've missed this batch, probably next time (I think it would be September), anyway available color options was not for me except for probably Solar Storm, but previous one with flamed maple neck was much more interesting ... but different fingerboards, painted vs not painted headstock ... I don't know.


I’ll update next week when mine arrives . This will be #7 I think, so I’ve had a good cross section of them to compare. I went over what My experience has been this far in my other reply on the next page. So far, to summarize, they’ve been “good”, not awful but not great (and one could argue that at almost 4k nothing less than “spectacular” is acceptable).


----------



## Jeries

CW7 said:


> So I’ve now had like 6 Master 8s pass through. I can say this. It’s “good” but not over the top (not what I expect out of an almost 4k instrument). I haven’t had one that I didn’t have to send to my guy for some quick fret leveling and saddle adjustment. BUT- they bring something unique to the table so I keep buying them. Lol
> 
> I have two Js (a 7 and 8). They’re both potential keepers. I’m anxious to see if this USA good sparkle 8 can stay in the mix. (The last one I had was that sparkle burst with the flamed neck ; it was cool but I realized I’m not a fan of a burst on an Uber modern 8. Just didn’t vibe with it).
> I guess what I’m saying is I am very cautiously optimistic; as long as it comes in like the previous ones I know in 30 minutes I can have the action slammed and ready to rip, and in good with that. I’ll update next week (gold sparkle is due Wednesday. They wasted NO time getting those out the door!).


Since you have experience with them, do you think purchasing an 8 string Larada would be a good buy if I can order one? What was the estimated total after taxes and shipping, because I wanted to get an Essi but that's moot, so Im thinking this would be the next best thing? Or should I just go with Padalka?


----------



## CW7

Jeries said:


> Since you have experience with them, do you think purchasing an 8 string Larada would be a good buy if I can order one? What was the estimated total after taxes and shipping, because I wanted to get an Essi but that's moot, so Im thinking this would be the next best thing? Or should I just go with Padalka?


 Wow. 
Ok- so some apples and oranges here, but let me help best I can.  

actually, shoot me a PM if you want- this could get long winded. I’ve had experience with all 3 brands you mentioned, and could shed some light here I think. I just didn’t want to get off on a Padalka/Oni tangent in a larada thread .


----------



## Jeries

CW7 said:


> Wow.
> Ok- so some apples and oranges here, but let me help best I can.
> 
> actually, shoot me a PM if you want- this could get long winded. I’ve had experience with all 3 brands you mentioned, and could shed some light here I think. I just didn’t want to get off on a Padalka/Oni tangent in a larada thread .


Will do sir. Thx


----------



## den_3k

CW7 said:


> Wow.
> Ok- so some apples and oranges here, but let me help best I can.
> 
> actually, shoot me a PM if you want- this could get long winded. I’ve had experience with all 3 brands you mentioned, and could shed some light here I think. I just didn’t want to get off on a Padalka/Oni tangent in a larada thread .


Guys it will be great if after private discussion you will post some summary here.


----------



## CW7

I’d be happy to elaborate here ; I just didn’t want to derail a larada specific thread with lots of talk of other builders. But I’ll summarize here shortly .


den_3k said:


> Guys it will be great if after private discussion you will post some summary here.


----------



## den_3k

CW7 said:


> I’d be happy to elaborate here ; I just didn’t want to derail a larada specific thread with lots of talk of other builders. But I’ll summarize here shortly .


You mentioned Padalka, and he living in city near me (250kms from my city) so I am really interested to hear details 0


----------



## CW7

den_3k said:


> You mentioned Padalka, and he living in city near me (250kms from my city) so I am really interested to hear details 0



OK- 

so I’ve had 3 Padalkas. Yeh first two were “run” guitars ; he did a very short run of Neptunes. These had limited options you could choose, and were bolt on, so they were priced less than his full on custom builds. (They also had nickel frets, which , for me, was a bit of a deal killer). These ran 2500-2800 or so, iirc. They fell in the category of “good” for me. Not mind blowing, but not bad. Solid. Honestly for 2500+ I expect a pretty high end build. I actually had the cheaper of the two (a black one with gold hardware) re fretted with jumbo SS with rounded ends. This was a big upgrade IMO. I still sold it as I just didn’t play it enough to warrant keeping it. I also had a full custom on order so knowing that was coming I didn’t need two other Neptunes laying around. 

Now the custom. THAT is what I expected Padalka to be. Granted it was over 5k (and over a year wait). But it was finished to an almost surgical level of precision. Therein lies me “issue” with it, and it can certainly be said this is a personal preference, but a few asked so I’ll detail it here as best I can. 

Simon’s work is clean. In fact it’s SO clean it kinda felt sterile to me. There certainly wasn’t a “flaw” with the instrument. BUT- it didn’t vibe for me. No mojo. It was almost clinical in a nature. Every box was there to be ticked. But something didn’t jive for me . Add that to the fact that I’m almost exclusively a trem player on 6 string, and this was a fixed bridge, and I decided to sell it. (That wasn’t easy as the concept was something I’d had in my head a long time and finally seeing to to fruition was pretty cool). But a 5500.00 instrument needs to knock me off my feet. Not just be a “this is pretty cool and well made...” instrument. 

to tie Into Larada (this is a Larada thread , right? ). The comparison isn’t really “fair” , in that Padalka is a true , one man custom shop with a now 18 month to 2 year wait, while clearly Laradas are made in batches and in much greater numbers with no customization. BUT- the Laradas DO bring something unique to the table, and truth be told, both of mine do have a vibe I enjoy. The aforementioned mojo I felt the Padalka lacked for whatever reason. 

Again/ touchy subject. In no way am I comparing the QUALITY , objectively speaking , of Padalka and Abasi. Sorry, but that’s not a fair fight. Simon makes a technically superior instrument . But for me, I’m ok with sacrificing some of the clinical perfection for whatever the X factor is that the Laradas provide. (And let me be 100% transparent ; I’ve absolutely heard of QC issues in the past with Padalka. I’ve not experienced that with the newest customs so I can only speak to that experience. It’s probable he stepped his game the last couple of years, and he’s doing a fantastic job as far as producing a flawlessly executed instrument. It just wasn’t something that screamed “keeper” to me). 

Hope that’s helpful for those that are curious. I’m happy to discuss further for anyone that’s curious. Cheers.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

CW7 said:


> OK-
> 
> so I’ve had 3 Padalkas. Yeh first two were “run” guitars ; he did a very short run of Neptunes. These had limited options you could choose, and were bolt on, so they were priced less than his full on custom builds. (They also had nickel frets, which , for me, was a bit of a deal killer). These ran 2500-2800 or so, iirc. They fell in the category of “good” for me. Not mind blowing, but not bad. Solid. Honestly for 2500+ I expect a pretty high end build. I actually had the cheaper of the two (a black one with gold hardware) re fretted with jumbo SS with rounded ends. This was a big upgrade IMO. I still sold it as I just didn’t play it enough to warrant keeping it. I also had a full custom on order so knowing that was coming I didn’t need two other Neptunes laying around.
> 
> Now the custom. THAT is what I expected Padalka to be. Granted it was over 5k (and over a year wait). But it was finished to an almost surgical level of precision. Therein lies me “issue” with it, and it can certainly be said this is a personal preference, but a few asked so I’ll detail it here as best I can.
> 
> Simon’s work is clean. In fact it’s SO clean it kinda felt sterile to me. There certainly wasn’t a “flaw” with the instrument. BUT- it didn’t vibe for me. No mojo. It was almost clinical in a nature. Every box was there to be ticked. But something didn’t jive for me . Add that to the fact that I’m almost exclusively a trem player on 6 string, and this was a fixed bridge, and I decided to sell it. (That wasn’t easy as the concept was something I’d had in my head a long time and finally seeing to to fruition was pretty cool). But a 5500.00 instrument needs to knock me off my feet. Not just be a “this is pretty cool and well made...” instrument.
> 
> to tie Into Larada (this is a Larada thread , right? ). The comparison isn’t really “fair” , in that Padalka is a true , one man custom shop with a now 18 month to 2 year wait, while clearly Laradas are made in batches and in much greater numbers with no customization. BUT- the Laradas DO bring something unique to the table, and truth be told, both of mine do have a vibe I enjoy. The aforementioned mojo I felt the Padalka lacked for whatever reason.
> 
> Again/ touchy subject. In no way am I comparing the QUALITY , objectively speaking , of Padalka and Abasi. Sorry, but that’s not a fair fight. Simon makes a technically superior instrument . But for me, I’m ok with sacrificing some of the clinical perfection for whatever the X factor is that the Laradas provide. (And let me be 100% transparent ; I’ve absolutely heard of QC issues in the past with Padalka. I’ve not experienced that with the newest customs so I can only speak to that experience. It’s probable he stepped his game the last couple of years, and he’s doing a fantastic job as far as producing a flawlessly executed instrument. It just wasn’t something that screamed “keeper” to me).
> 
> Hope that’s helpful for those that are curious. I’m happy to discuss further for anyone that’s curious. Cheers.



You should make a thread/post on various high end guitars in a vs, Padalka vs Abasi vs tone vs Strandberg... it'd be really interesting to hear the perspectives on guitars you never really hear a comparison to when there should be on if you get me


----------



## NCeuRign

I got a question - Justus West on his insta plays a pale blue 6 string multiscale Abasi. All the 6s on the abasiconcepts site are straight fretted. Anyone know the story behind Justus'?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I think they were gonna do all fan feet but decided not to on 6s


----------



## den_3k

CW7 said:


> OK-
> 
> so I’ve had 3 Padalkas. Yeh first two were “run” guitars ; he did a very short run of Neptunes. These had limited options you could choose, and were bolt on, so they were priced less than his full on custom builds. (They also had nickel frets, which , for me, was a bit of a deal killer). These ran 2500-2800 or so, iirc. They fell in the category of “good” for me. Not mind blowing, but not bad. Solid. Honestly for 2500+ I expect a pretty high end build. I actually had the cheaper of the two (a black one with gold hardware) re fretted with jumbo SS with rounded ends. This was a big upgrade IMO. I still sold it as I just didn’t play it enough to warrant keeping it. I also had a full custom on order so knowing that was coming I didn’t need two other Neptunes laying around.
> 
> Now the custom. THAT is what I expected Padalka to be. Granted it was over 5k (and over a year wait). But it was finished to an almost surgical level of precision. Therein lies me “issue” with it, and it can certainly be said this is a personal preference, but a few asked so I’ll detail it here as best I can.
> 
> Simon’s work is clean. In fact it’s SO clean it kinda felt sterile to me. There certainly wasn’t a “flaw” with the instrument. BUT- it didn’t vibe for me. No mojo. It was almost clinical in a nature. Every box was there to be ticked. But something didn’t jive for me . Add that to the fact that I’m almost exclusively a trem player on 6 string, and this was a fixed bridge, and I decided to sell it. (That wasn’t easy as the concept was something I’d had in my head a long time and finally seeing to to fruition was pretty cool). But a 5500.00 instrument needs to knock me off my feet. Not just be a “this is pretty cool and well made...” instrument.
> 
> to tie Into Larada (this is a Larada thread , right? ). The comparison isn’t really “fair” , in that Padalka is a true , one man custom shop with a now 18 month to 2 year wait, while clearly Laradas are made in batches and in much greater numbers with no customization. BUT- the Laradas DO bring something unique to the table, and truth be told, both of mine do have a vibe I enjoy. The aforementioned mojo I felt the Padalka lacked for whatever reason.
> 
> Again/ touchy subject. In no way am I comparing the QUALITY , objectively speaking , of Padalka and Abasi. Sorry, but that’s not a fair fight. Simon makes a technically superior instrument . But for me, I’m ok with sacrificing some of the clinical perfection for whatever the X factor is that the Laradas provide. (And let me be 100% transparent ; I’ve absolutely heard of QC issues in the past with Padalka. I’ve not experienced that with the newest customs so I can only speak to that experience. It’s probable he stepped his game the last couple of years, and he’s doing a fantastic job as far as producing a flawlessly executed instrument. It just wasn’t something that screamed “keeper” to me).
> 
> Hope that’s helpful for those that are curious. I’m happy to discuss further for anyone that’s curious. Cheers.



Thank you for finding time and giving such detailed and interesting information. Surprisingly, looks like we are on the same side. While I've never ever touched any of Padalka guitars, but I am agree that Larada has some specific vibe/mojo. Moreover, after getting a Strandberg I've disappointed completely in idea of headless guitar, and looks like abasi is the only one guitar on a market, which provides some modern ideas, ergonomics and not headless. So ... still targeted to Larada.


----------



## CW7

NCeuRign said:


> I got a question - Justus West on his insta plays a pale blue 6 string multiscale Abasi. All the 6s on the abasiconcepts site are straight fretted. Anyone know the story behind Justus'?


There are some J series 6 strings that can still be found. Not saying that’s what his is (may or may not be) but those so far are all I’ve seen of 6 string FF from Abasi.


----------



## hayfever

NCeuRign said:


> I got a question - Justus West on his insta plays a pale blue 6 string multiscale Abasi. All the 6s on the abasiconcepts site are straight fretted. Anyone know the story behind Justus'?



I don't know the story behind his and I haven't ever seen Tosin/the company say anything about these but they are available in japan stores, ie: https://shop.miyaji.co.jp/SHOP/ka-g-101019-iy02.html

This particular store also has a straight fret 7 with a floyd: https://shop.miyaji.co.jp/SHOP/ka-g-122018-if04.html

No idea how you would go about ordering these


----------



## stinkoman

hayfever said:


> I don't know the story behind his and I haven't ever seen Tosin/the company say anything about these but they are available in japan stores, ie: https://shop.miyaji.co.jp/SHOP/ka-g-101019-iy02.html
> 
> This particular store also has a straight fret 7 with a floyd: https://shop.miyaji.co.jp/SHOP/ka-g-122018-if04.html
> 
> No idea how you would go about ordering these


I could be wrong, but those look like Falbo builds.


----------



## StevenC

NCeuRign said:


> I got a question - Justus West on his insta plays a pale blue 6 string multiscale Abasi. All the 6s on the abasiconcepts site are straight fretted. Anyone know the story behind Justus'?





hayfever said:


> I don't know the story behind his and I haven't ever seen Tosin/the company say anything about these but they are available in japan stores, ie: https://shop.miyaji.co.jp/SHOP/ka-g-101019-iy02.html
> 
> This particular store also has a straight fret 7 with a floyd: https://shop.miyaji.co.jp/SHOP/ka-g-122018-if04.html
> 
> No idea how you would go about ordering these


The guitars in Japan are the guitars made by Falbo and apparently finished (to some extent) in Japan. The Justus West guitar is probably also the same story, but I can't find a good picture of the back of the neck to confirm.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

In namm videos after fano they’re playing justus’ six. Greg Koch destroys it


----------



## CW7

Full overview and pics coming, but for now… here’s a teaser













B63E67C4-88C4-44F6-A683-24BE48AEF1E7



__ CW7
__ Apr 28, 2021


----------



## Yelir

CW7 said:


> Full overview and pics coming, but for now… here’s a teaser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B63E67C4-88C4-44F6-A683-24BE48AEF1E7
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Apr 28, 2021


The checking in that model looks incredible!


----------



## BlackMastodon

What's with the horizontal lines in the paint? Weird choice if that's an intentional part of the finish.


----------



## JSanta

BlackMastodon said:


> What's with the horizontal lines in the paint? Weird choice if that's an intentional part of the finish.



Nitro checking, or in this case, intentional aging of the finish.


----------



## NCeuRign

The one I got was just on insta and someone else said they bought it in the drop. If they are to be believed at face value then maybe there were two of that particular finish. Or maybe an empty box is on its way to me ...


----------



## CW7

NCeuRign said:


> The one I got was just on insta and someone else said they bought it in the drop. If they are to be believed at face value then maybe there were two of that particular finish. Or maybe an empty box is on its way to me ...


Which one did you get?


----------



## CW7

BlackMastodon said:


> What's with the horizontal lines in the paint? Weird choice if that's an intentional part of the finish.


They’re correct- it’s nitro finish checking as it’s a relic finish . Very cool in person and done well IMO.


----------



## NCeuRign

The black beauty


----------



## CW7

NCeuRign said:


> The black beauty


Should be any day now? Mine shipped the same day.


----------



## NCeuRign

I'm about as far from LA as it gets. Thursday estimated arrival


----------



## CW7

NCeuRign said:


> I'm about as far from LA as it gets. Thursday estimated arrival


Ahhh I see. Fingers crossed for ya! Update when it lands .


----------



## CW7

Ok- set up and some quick play time . So far, I think this is my favorite I’ve had. It absolutely RIPS. It did still need the setup out of the case , but I’m willing to give it a pass since I am a huge sucker for gold, sparkles, and relic paint finishes. More extensive pics and review next week. But here she is with the siblings. 













DDDDA239-C913-41D9-B66F-9C135E5A28AE



__ CW7
__ May 1, 2021


----------



## NCeuRign

What sort of setup out of the box did you need to do (including to the siblings)? That's mildly annoying.


----------



## CW7

NCeuRign said:


> What sort of setup out of the box did you need to do (including to the siblings)? That's mildly annoying.


So every one I’ve owned (including the other two above) have needed the saddles - namely the high E and sometimes B - filed because the way come the action won’t go lower than about 1.5mm. Also, most of them have needed the last fret leveled as it’s too high. These are minor since I can get it done in minutes, BUT- on what is essentially a 4k instrument it should be FLAWLESS and not need modifications to run low action.


----------



## cardinal

I'm a bit out of the loop. Any they doing straight scale 8s yet? Need the Floydddddddd.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

cardinal said:


> I'm a bit out of the loop. Any they doing straight scale 8s yet? Need the Floydddddddd.


Nah not yet but you can get old ones from Japan


----------



## NCeuRign

Mine finally arrived. It's great. I gave it a quick once over and none of the earlier thread issues were evident but the particular finish mine has means it has a uniform coating over everything so I doubt I'll find anything that someone with more mixed finishes.

I haven't even tuned it up or checked the setup. I'm too busy at work right now.

The only minor disappointment I have is I have a Starfish stand, which I love for safety between playing, and it's too wide for that. I'm not sure if I order a new Starfish and take a knife to it or something.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

CW7 said:


> So every one I’ve owned (including the other two above) have needed the saddles - namely the high E and sometimes B - filed because the way come the action won’t go lower than about 1.5mm. Also, most of them have needed the last fret leveled as it’s too high. These are minor since I can get it done in minutes, BUT- on what is essentially a 4k instrument it should be FLAWLESS and not need modifications to run low action.


Uh...1.5mm????? Is that even possible?


----------



## Hollowway

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Uh...1.5mm????? Is that even possible?


What do you mean?


----------



## CW7

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Uh...1.5mm????? Is that even possible?


Yeah I’m not sure what you’re asking.


----------



## Hollowway

CW7 said:


> Yeah I’m not sure what you’re asking.



Maybe he plays slide?


----------



## Matt08642

CW7 said:


> Full overview and pics coming, but for now… here’s a teaser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> B63E67C4-88C4-44F6-A683-24BE48AEF1E7
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Apr 28, 2021



This is like the perfect sparkle size, looks so good!


----------



## CW7

Matt08642 said:


> This is like the perfect sparkle size, looks so good!


I tend to agree. I’m a BIG fan of sparkles, and I find when the flakes are overly large it cheapens the look. This has a very classy look to it and combined with the relic / nitro, a win win in my book. My favorite Master USA to date


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Hollowway said:


> Maybe he plays slide?


No, I’m just an idiot and forgot what unit I was thinking of.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

I finally ponied up for a j larada. It’s dope. Took me hours of constant play to adjust to the sight of it. They’re so surreal in real life. I’d only seen them in pictures for so long. But it’s just so fun to play. Absolute shredder. Amazing electronics. So cozy to just sit with and play for hours at a time. My main issue with the guitar is my personal stress about resale value. I feel like (for the money) I should buy a USA model and sell the J while it’s still worth so much in the used market. The USA will prob hold value the best across time. But that’s my affliction and I have to live with it. Cheers! Glad to be a part of this. Can’t wait till the next USA drop. I will be sure to have a quick trigger finger


----------



## Hollowway

Trinity Prescott said:


> I finally ponied up for a j larada. It’s dope. Took me hours of constant play to adjust to the sight of it. They’re so surreal in real life. I’d only seen them in pictures for so long. But it’s just so fun to play. Absolute shredder. Amazing electronics. So cozy to just sit with and play for hours at a time. My main issue with the guitar is my personal stress about resale value. I feel like (for the money) I should buy a USA model and sell the J while it’s still worth so much in the used market. The USA will prob hold value the best across time. But that’s my affliction and I have to live with it. Cheers! Glad to be a part of this. Can’t wait till the next USA drop. I will be sure to have a quick trigger finger



can we haz a photo?


----------



## Trinity Prescott




----------



## Hollowway

Trinity Prescott said:


> View attachment 93861


That’s nice. Based on the looks of it, and the gloss finish, I’d be pretty happy with it. For some reason I feel that the matte burl legion just doesn’t look good. The glossy finishes on these are much nicer.


----------



## NCeuRign

Mine's also gloss (and Matt, two tone) and I kinda think CW7 made the smarter buy. I'm terrified the tiniest imperfection will show up (scratches, dents, etc).

Speaking of imperfections the only thing I found was a couple of grains of something like grit randomly on the neck. They came off with light fingernail abrasion and left nothing behind. And a slight bump where I thought the finish had bubbled but it's not. It's almost imperceptible.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

Hollowway said:


> That’s nice. Based on the looks of it, and the gloss finish, I’d be pretty happy with it. For some reason I feel that the matte burl legion just doesn’t look good. The glossy finishes on these are much nicer.


I am very happy with it. Don’t think I’d be happy with a legion. I’m interested in stepping up to a USA. Hopefully I catch the next drop on time and hopefully it’s got some good options.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Trinity Prescott said:


> I finally ponied up for a j larada. It’s dope. Took me hours of constant play to adjust to the sight of it. They’re so surreal in real life. I’d only seen them in pictures for so long. But it’s just so fun to play. Absolute shredder. Amazing electronics. So cozy to just sit with and play for hours at a time. My main issue with the guitar is my personal stress about resale value. I feel like (for the money) I should buy a USA model and sell the J while it’s still worth so much in the used market. The USA will prob hold value the best across time. But that’s my affliction and I have to live with it. Cheers! Glad to be a part of this. Can’t wait till the next USA drop. I will be sure to have a quick trigger finger



Why would USA have better resale value than J ?


----------



## Trinity Prescott

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Why would USA have better resale value than J ?


Grover Jackson’s name and being set neck. For the money I think they will hold value better.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

*for the money* being a key detail. Spend a little more money and get a USA set neck Grover Jackson Larada.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Trinity Prescott said:


> *for the money* being a key detail. Spend a little more money and get a USA set neck Grover Jackson Larada.




I think most people would agree the J larada are superior guitars.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

Nah most I’ve heard is that the neck profile on the j is more desirable. Set neck is going to be more musical by nature. Same appointments. USA made. The j is rad but for a 3000$ guitar, it feels like an Ibanez. If it was significantly cheaper, my opinion would surely be different. So, again, for the money I’d rather have a USA Grover Jackson Larada with a set neck. Couple hundred extra bucks goes a long way w the laradas.


----------



## Hollowway

Trinity Prescott said:


> The j is rad but for a 3000$ guitar, it feels like an Ibanez.



Maybe not the right analogy, as I would think it would be a good thing for a guitar to feel like an Ibanez.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

Hollowway said:


> Maybe not the right analogy, as I would think it would be a good thing for a guitar to feel like an Ibanez.


No, it’s the correct analogy. It’s not a bad thing. Again. My point is. For the money. Meaning. If I’m paying 3000+ dollars, I’d rather the USA with the set neck.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

Also the richlite feels a little synthetic to me. Totally irrational and yes a little ironic considering it’s a “modern guitar” but it’s just something I’ve got in my head. So I want a birdseye fretboard. If I’m going to keep a guitar for years and years I want the wood to age naturally.


----------



## StevenC

Trinity Prescott said:


> Set neck is going to be more musical by nature.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

StevenC said:


>


Set neck is going to allow the guitar to sustain more. It’s a solid pathway for the guitar to vibrate and that creates an acoustic nature. If you play a chord on a nice Gibson Les Paul unplugged, you will hear it ring like a bell. If I’ve explained it poorly, there are many videos of Paul Reed Smith explaining these concepts in more technical form.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

I think it bears repeating that there have been far more examples of bad guitars with serious flaws coming out of the USA shop than there have from Dyna Gakki. So again, while the USA models have a nicely shaped set neck, the J's have been consistently well crafted. Not to mention that Tosin chose the bolt-on for those guitars specifically for the tone that it imparts upon the guitar.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Trinity Prescott said:


> Set neck is going to allow the guitar to sustain more. It’s a solid pathway for the guitar to vibrate and that creates an acoustic nature. If you play a chord on a nice Gibson Les Paul unplugged, you will hear it ring like a bell. If I’ve explained it poorly, there are many videos of Paul Reed Smith explaining these concepts in more technical form.


----------



## StevenC

MaxOfMetal said:


> View attachment 93962


QFT


----------



## Trinity Prescott

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I think it bears repeating that there have been far more examples of bad guitars with serious flaws coming out of the USA shop than there have from Dyna Gakki. So again, while the USA models have a nicely shaped set neck, the J's have been consistently well crafted. Not to mention that Tosin chose the bolt-on for those guitars specifically for the tone that it imparts upon the guitar.


The Js mostly need minimal fretwork and saddles shaved down you’re really splitting hairs to make that point about a bolt on will be a better guitar than a set neck USA guitar (blah blah; a high end option). I think it’s fair to say they both have been known to need a few things. On paper, you can make the case about QC (you can make the same bottomless pit argument about Gibson) but in my experience brokering higher end guitars (many years) you learn to factor in more than forum gossip. In my opinion you will get a finer instrument for a few hundred dollars more. The j is just fine. It’s great. But for a few hundred bucks more I can get a higher tier model. I’ll go with that.


----------



## diagrammatiks

people always tryin to start fights by going well actually I've touched a lot of high end guitars...
in a forum full of people that literally just buy guitars all day.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Trinity Prescott said:


> The Js mostly need minimal fretwork and saddles shaved down you’re really splitting hairs to make that point about a bolt on will be a better guitar than a set neck USA guitar (blah blah; a high end option). I think it’s fair to say they both have been known to need a few things. On paper, you can make the case about QC (you can make the same bottomless pit argument about Gibson) but in my experience brokering higher end guitars (many years) you learn to factor in more than forum gossip. In my opinion you will get a finer instrument for a few hundred dollars more. The j is just fine. It’s great. But for a few hundred bucks more I can get a higher tier model. I’ll go with that.



Im not basing my opinion on "forum gossip". I've owned (and later sold) 3 USA laradas and a J7. USA models were just not as finished as the J. I'd guess CW7 who has owned more Laradas than probablyt anyone would concur.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Im not basing my opinion on "forum gossip". I've owned (and later sold) 3 USA laradas and a J7. USA models were just not as finished as the J. I'd guess CW7 who has owned more Laradas than probablyt anyone would concur.


ok to prevent from defending myself for another 3 pages on this forum. My logic is simple and I can’t believe I have to reiterate. For a few hundred more I can get one that I desire to own more. It’s really that simple.


----------



## StevenC

Trinity Prescott said:


> ok to prevent from defending myself for another 3 pages on this forum. My logic is simple and I can’t believe I have to reiterate. For a few hundred more I can get one that I desire to own more. It’s really that simple.


Couldn't you have said that at the start instead of making dubious claims? I want a USA more too, but that doesn't make it better.


----------



## narad

Borderline Spinal Tap happening in this thread.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> Borderline Spinal Tap happening in this thread.


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


>




Abasi Guitars USA: "You can go an'ave a bite"


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> Abasi Guitars USA: "You can go an'ave a bite"


Matte black and gloss black, how much more black could it be? The answer is none. None more black.


----------



## cardinal

This thread has gotten back on track.


----------



## AmoryDrive

Aaron Marshall just got an 8 string J Larada, looks like they have changed the bolt on neck joint to match the Legion


----------



## Trinity Prescott

StevenC said:


> Couldn't you have said that at the start instead of making dubious claims? I want a USA more too, but that doesn't make it better.


I was just being talkative lol I didn’t know I’d be thrown on trial and picked apart.


----------



## Trinity Prescott

narad said:


> Borderline Spinal Tap happening in this thread.


Not really. Just very basic concepts being mentioned. Kindergarten level guitar knowledge.


----------



## StevenC

Trinity Prescott said:


> Not really. Just very basic concepts being mentioned. Kindergarten level guitar knowledge.


[citation needed]


----------



## budda

This thread delivers.


----------



## gunshow86de

Can we please get this thread back on track and talk about tonewoods?


----------



## Trinity Prescott

gunshow86de said:


> Can we please get this thread back on track and talk about tonewoods?


Mention set necks one time and the whole thread turns into Idiocracy. Cool. Y’all have fun.


----------



## Demiurge

If people can't tease each other for being fussy over particular guitar specs, then what fun is there to have?


----------



## diagrammatiks

Trinity Prescott said:


> Not really. Just very basic concepts being mentioned. Kindergarten level guitar knowledge.



is it kindergarten knowledge or knowledge you need to handle high end guitars for years to have.

pick a lane.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Here's my experience from having owned a J-7 for 2 years (still have it) and having a USA-7 for a few months.

My preference is for the J neck ovoid profile.

Also, for my style of playing, the J-7's upper neck access makes more sense for my thumb placement.

This is mainly due to the slope of the wood joining the neck and body on the USA. It makes thumb placement on the upper neck weird for me.

Again, these are personal preferences related to my playstyle, not absolute facts.

EDIT: forgot also that I owned a USA-6 Spartan. Did not like the set neck for aforementioned reasons, sent it back (it also had dings on it and faulty tuners).


----------



## chipchappy

Trinity Prescott said:


> I was just being talkative lol I didn’t know I’d be thrown on trial and picked apart.



you were "thrown" on trial and picked apart because you're actually making shit up


----------



## BlackMastodon

AmoryDrive said:


> Aaron Marshall just got an 8 string J Larada, looks like they have changed the bolt on neck joint to match the Legion


Oh cool, they saw my nitpicking on a guitar I won't buy and changed accordingly. This some Trueman Show shit.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

this one may have been a record for time to sellout. This relationship feels ever more abusive.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Stoked I was lucky enough to snag the Selenite Grey Master Series. Been trying to get one since last year but they kept selling out so quick that I wasn’t able to buy it within a min. This was my last try at getting one before I gave up & bought a Strandy J8 or ordering a Aristides h/0 8. Still wanna get those as well.


----------



## Hollowway

What did these sell for this time around? I’m not sure what the current pricing is for them.


----------



## Jackillin

Hollowway said:


> What did these sell for this time around? I’m not sure what the current pricing is for them.


I missed it again this time.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Hollowway said:


> What did these sell for this time around? I’m not sure what the current pricing is for them.


They went for $3499, all in w/ tax $3900.


----------



## NCeuRign

Did you happen to see what the 6 went for? I need a 6 to match my 8 now


----------



## BradleyAllan

NCeuRign said:


> Did you happen to see what the 6 went for? I need a 6 to match my 8 now


I believe they were all the same price. My friend / production partner got the black 6 w/ maple fretboard with a Floyd rose the last drop for $3499


----------



## NCeuRign

I should have been quicker today. I missed the drop by 3 minutes and this time the black/gold 6 was the exact sibling of the 8 I got a month ago


----------



## BradleyAllan

I tried to get that black masters 8 last drop but you beat me to it. Also tried to get the Miami Blue one last drop but couldn’t get through payment processing quick enough. I almost missed the Selenite Gray 8 today because they didn’t update home page on my end so kept refreshing before going to the Masters section where they were. They sold hella quick today like last drop. Like what felt like 2 mins max.


----------



## NCeuRign

At least you got a shout out from Tosin for your patience.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Hahaha yeah man he’s a good dude. Totally down to support him and what he’s doing.


----------



## Jackillin

Are they worth it? What's ur guys review on the playability & pickups? I'm interested in getting a decent 8 still not settled on a particular brand though...


----------



## NCeuRign

I love mine. It's been the only guitar I've used since I got it. The negatives are minor, but here they are:

It's tricky to play 6 string stuff I'm used to. I.e. if I want to play regular chords where I could blindly hammer at the low E, well you obviously have to be careful and deliberate not to hit the new lower B and G if that's not what you want
The pickups are positioned slightly closer and slighter further right than I'd like. Therefore sometimes I find myself playing over and hitting the neck pup and the position to not do that is slightly less comfortable for me than I'd like
I need to be careful not to get sucked in to the new flexibility of being able to stay vertical with extra range rather than using horizontal real estate. This isn't really a negative because the extra vertical is really cool. The extra vertical plus horizontal is even cooler
My awesome stand doesn't fit it
The cable jack position along with the lack of stand means I pull the plug and lie it down flat when I want to leave it
Those two things make me super nervous when it's not in my hand, especially with its weight distribution (body is relatively light)
The lack of stand means I lie it strings down when charging, which again makes me really nervous
That's it. All those things are really minor in the scheme of things. I literally haven't picked up one of my 6s since getting it so maybe readjusting to a non-fanned 6 will be tricky?

Obviously there's still a ton to learn to maximize the versatility of it.

I think it speaks for itself that it's been my sole guitar for a month and many hours.


----------



## odibrom

... just stopping by to say that this thread is only half devil... hehehe... yet... hehehe...


----------



## NCeuRign

When I got mine someone else on insta said they got the same one. I was a bit confused but guessed there were two. Confirmed today with mine's twin on reverb at a healthy markup


----------



## Jackillin

NCeuRign said:


> When I got mine someone else on insta said they got the same one. I was a bit confused but guessed there were two. Confirmed today with mine's twin on reverb at a healthy markup




Which one did u get?


----------



## CW7

Jackillin said:


> Which one did u get?


I’m wondering maybe the black beauty? (One of the only ones I’ve seen that was in the last drop).


----------



## NCeuRign

Yep the black beauty.


----------



## NCeuRign

Jackillin said:


> Are they worth it? What's ur guys review on the playability & pickups? I'm interested in getting a decent 8 still not settled on a particular brand though...



One thing I find interesting is the 8 is more suited to playing music written for piano with bass and treble clef runs in basically the one vertical position (obviously not Abasi specific, a positive of 8s in general). That concept also means it's easy to play motifs across the octaves. Again, I gotta be careful not to get stuck on the neck but I've been playing a bit of piano jazz and have noticed gravitating towards visualizing the bass and treble clefs in specific positions.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Jackillin said:


> Are they worth it? What's ur guys review on the playability & pickups? I'm interested in getting a decent 8 still not settled on a particular brand though...


Yeah man I would totally say they’re worth it. I got the Selenite Master Series 8 on Thursday and haven’t put it down since. I’m coming from Strandberg’s so for me personally that was a pretty high bar to clear but the Abasi did it. I was already a fan of the Fishman Abasi pups so it’s exactly what I was expecting. Wasn’t sure how I was going to like the ovoid neck on the 8, especially coming from the endurneck but man I love it. Super comfortable and fast to play and fret access on the higher frets feels great. Overall I’m super impressed by this one. We’ll see how it feels after the honeymoon period is over but think this is going to take my main slot.


----------



## CW7

BradleyAllan said:


> Yeah man I would totally say they’re worth it. I got the Selenite Master Series 8 on Thursday and haven’t put it down since. I’m coming from Strandberg’s so for me personally that was a pretty high bar to clear but the Abasi did it. I was already a fan of the Fishman Abasi pups so it’s exactly what I was expecting. Wasn’t sure how I was going to like the ovoid neck on the 8, especially coming from the endurneck but man I love it. Super comfortable and fast to play and fret access on the higher frets feels great. Overall I’m super impressed by this one. We’ll see how it feels after the honeymoon period is over but think this is going to take my main slot.


Hey you got the Selenite Master 8, right? Just a note ; that’s the standard neck profile for the Master series. The “j” series is the one with the asymmetrical oval/teardrop profile (it’s quite different. I happen to like it, but it feels nothing like the USA). Glad you’re digging the master . I’ve got the champagne supernova from last drop (and I’m getting my pink USA custom back next week , so that’s exciting). I’ve also got a J7 with that oval neck. I almost prefer it on the 7 as it gets a LITTLE chunky on an 8. Happy NGD!


----------



## BradleyAllan

CW7 said:


> Hey you got the Selenite Master 8, right? Just a note ; that’s the standard neck profile for the Master series. The “j” series is the one with the asymmetrical oval/teardrop profile (it’s quite different. I happen to like it, but it feels nothing like the USA). Glad you’re digging the master . I’ve got the champagne supernova from last drop (and I’m getting my pink USA custom back next week , so that’s exciting). I’ve also got a J7 with that oval neck. I almost prefer it on the 7 as it gets a LITTLE chunky on an 8. Happy NGD!


Yeah I got the Selenite. Thanks man for the correction! Coming from the Strandy’s it actually feels really thin so thought it was less of a c shape but must just be psychosomatic for me. Congrats on the Supernova! That looked really dope. I actually tried to get the Miami Blue / Black Beauty on that drop but wasn’t quick enough with my auto fill LOL. Is the neck on the J series thinner than the Master Series? I think I need to try to grab one of those next drop in an 8 if I can. Could you compare the two briefly if possible?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> Hey you got the Selenite Master 8, right? Just a note ; that’s the standard neck profile for the Master series. The “j” series is the one with the asymmetrical oval/teardrop profile (it’s quite different. I happen to like it, but it feels nothing like the USA). Glad you’re digging the master . I’ve got the champagne supernova from last drop (and I’m getting my pink USA custom back next week , so that’s exciting). I’ve also got a J7 with that oval neck. I almost prefer it on the 7 as it gets a LITTLE chunky on an 8. Happy NGD!


Was your 8 the pink that was on the verb for $2800 this am for like 30 min?


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Was your 8 the pink that was on the verb for $2800 this am for like 30 min?


It was yes. I got it from the original owner, sold it , the my buddy I sold it to sold it back to me via Reverb (he listed it because he doesn’t sell much and needed the help with shipping and all). So it was up there for a short time behind we finalized the deal . That was a fun one.


----------



## CW7

BradleyAllan said:


> Yeah I got the Selenite. Thanks man for the correction! Coming from the Strandy’s it actually feels really thin so thought it was less of a c shape but must just be psychosomatic for me. Congrats on the Supernova! That looked really dope. I actually tried to get the Miami Blue / Black Beauty on that drop but wasn’t quick enough with my auto fill LOL. Is the neck on the J series thinner than the Master Series? I think I need to try to grab one of those next drop in an 8 if I can. Could you compare the two briefly if possible?


Quite the contrary ; the J neck is thicker than the Master. It’s thicker on the bass side, but overall the entire thing is a bit bulkier than the Master series. Not profoundly so, but it’s very noticeable to me. I like both. They’re just different feels .


----------



## CW7

CW7 said:


> Quite the contrary ; the J neck is thicker than the Master. It’s thicker on the bass side, but overall the entire thing is a bit bulkier than the Master series. Not profoundly so, but it’s very noticeable to me. I like both. They’re just different feels .


I said that wrong . It’s oval/teardrop and almost feels thicker toward the treble end. Strange but cool


----------



## BradleyAllan

CW7 said:


> I said that wrong . It’s oval/teardrop and almost feels thicker toward the treble end. Strange but cool


Interesting….gonna pick one of those up. Would you say it’s somewhat comparable to an endurneck?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

BradleyAllan said:


> Interesting….gonna pick one of those up. Would you say it’s somewhat comparable to an endurneck?



I prefer the neck on my JLarada 7 to the Endureneck. I've played Strandbergs for 4 years (and J Larada for 2). See the review of the J7 I did in this forum section.


----------



## CW7

BradleyAllan said:


> Interesting….gonna pick one of those up. Would you say it’s somewhat comparable to an endurneck?


I don’t find them similar, really. Just different. I have no issues with the endurneck. And I do overall like the teardrop on the J as well. Honestly, I don’t know what i would compare it to. I WILL say I find it a lot less “drastic” than the strandberg. It’s not an “omg this is weird” thing for me. Just “wow, ok, that’s a little different, but cool nonetheless…”.


----------



## Chevygizmo

Space Tele drop, anybody have any experience with one here?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Chevygizmo said:


> Space Tele drop, anybody have any experience with one here?



I think @TheInvisibleHand owned one. I'd be curious to read impressions on neck profile, upper neck access and QC for space Ts.

They look great!!


----------



## Chevygizmo

I’m out on the space tele. They are pushing $3700. Seemed to have gone up. Lots still available


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Yeah, was going to snag one but at near 4k$ it just ain't worth it.


----------



## Chevygizmo

Kind of a bummer. They were $3200. 15% increase is a bit much. First world problem.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

I had gas for these when they first appeared with Ibanez but it’s been so long, I mainly play acoustic now


----------



## Bassnguitar

Anybody know the 1st and 12th fret neck thickness for the USA larada 8? I know they won't be exact, but just wanted to know the ballpark number


----------



## BradleyAllan

I tried grabbing the pink sparkle but was sold out in the first min so passed on the others. Crazy the $500 jump tho.


----------



## I play music

BradleyAllan said:


> Crazy the $500 jump tho.


If they are always sold out, they honestly would be crazy to not charge more. Crazy the people who pay that much ....


----------



## katsumura78

The price hike is gonna keep the flippers away. Or at least make them think twice about grabbing one for profit.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

katsumura78 said:


> The price hike is gonna keep the flippers away. Or at least make them think twice about grabbing one for profit.



Or...

$500 increase on purchase translates to $1000 increase on resale???


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

katsumura78 said:


> The price hike is gonna keep the flippers away. Or at least make them think twice about grabbing one for profit.



It also does an excellent job of keeping some purchasers away. And I LOVE to waste money on expensive guitars. But at $3.5-3.8k, alternate options are nearly limitless. I floated my mouse over the pink one for a good bit before admitting to myself that I would probably rather get a solid custom 24 or something else of similar quality that would definitely maintain a better resale value should I decide to unload it.

The current price bump is putting them on a tier that quality wise, they just can't compete on.


----------



## narad

Lucky I didn't see the pink space tele while it was still available. Close enough to my birthday to when I could have justified it as a present to myself.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

narad said:


> Lucky I didn't see the pink space tele while it was still available. Close enough to my birthday to when I could have justified it as a present to myself.



Yuuup, My birthday is this Friday and it was a very enticing justification. So it makes complete sense to just treat myself with a different guitar.


----------



## narad

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Yuuup, My birthday is this Friday and it was a very enticing justification. So it makes complete sense to just treat myself with a different guitar.



As did I lol


----------



## katsumura78

TheInvisibleHand said:


> It also does an excellent job of keeping some purchasers away. And I LOVE to waste money on expensive guitars. But at $3.5-3.8k, alternate options are nearly limitless. I floated my mouse over the pink one for a good bit before admitting to myself that I would probably rather get a solid custom 24 or something else of similar quality that would definitely maintain a better resale value should I decide to unload it.
> 
> The current price bump is putting them on a tier that quality wise, they just can't compete on.



I agree with you 100%.


----------



## bassisace

TheInvisibleHand said:


> The current price bump is putting them on a tier that quality wise, they just can't compete on.



At that price I'd expect brand confidence coming from consistent quality over many years. This is far from the case judging from all the errors in paint jobs, weird nuts, tool marks, warped necks, bad fretjobs and pickup alignment problems I've seen in this thread.

I'm not trying to be overly negative. I'm stating facts. I'm the first one hoping they get their QC straight so I can buy one with confidence.

Demand still exists so I guess they'll continue with that pricing.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

This price hike kinda has me concerned for the 2021 legions/


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bassisace said:


> At that price I'd expect brand confidence coming from consistent quality over many years. This is far from the case judging from all the errors in paint jobs, weird nuts, tool marks, warped necks, bad fretjobs and pickup alignment problems I've seen in this thread.
> 
> I'm not trying to be overly negative. I'm stating facts. I'm the first one hoping they get their QC straight so I can buy one with confidence.
> 
> Demand still exists so I guess they'll continue with that pricing.



These are still Grover Jackson made right? It's not like this is a new/unproven builder. 

So where's the problem?

If I had to guess, they're just pushing these out as fast as they can, and aren't really picky with QA/QC as they know there's an army of fanbois and hype jumpers willing to grab these no matter what. There's just no incentive to do better.


----------



## bassisace

MaxOfMetal said:


> These are still Grover Jackson made right? It's not like this is a new/unproven builder.
> 
> So where's the problem?
> 
> If I had to guess, they're just pushing these out as fast as they can, and aren't really picky with QA/QC as they know there's an army of fanbois and hype jumpers willing to grab these no matter what. There's just no incentive to do better.



No problem with builder but with QC, as you mentioned. My brand confidence comment was towards their ability to catch quality problems before sending them to the buyer.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> These are still Grover Jackson made right? It's not like this is a new/unproven builder.
> 
> So where's the problem?


Grover Jackson must be above 70 by now, he's getting old. Since my dad is about the same age, I tell you that at that age a lot of people also loose the attention to detail that their whole work life have been known for their quality work. Don't know if that's the case for Grover Jackson but it's not unlikely for man of that age I'd say.


----------



## Hollowway

I play music said:


> Grover Jackson must be above 70 by now, he's getting old. Since my dad is about the same age, I tell you that at that age a lot of people also loose the attention to detail that their whole work life have been known for their quality work. Don't know if that's the case for Grover Jackson but it's not unlikely for man of that age I'd say.


I’m sure @MaxOfMetal can shed some light on this better than I can, but I doubt Grover is doing all of the work on these. It’s a team. And the QC is a function of the boss and the market. Even if Grover were blind, he could still run a business with high QC.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> I’m sure @MaxOfMetal can shed some light on this better than I can, but I doubt Grover is doing all of the work on these. It’s a team. And the QC is a function of the boss and the market. Even if Grover were blind, he could still run a business with high QC.



Yeah, I was referring to Grover Jackson _the company_, not the person. Obviously old Grover ain't whittling these by hand one at a time. He owns and manages a shop with employees, and one that does OEM work for other brands that don't seem to have the same "silly at this price point" problems.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

MaxOfMetal said:


> Obviously old Grover ain't whittling these by hand one at a time.



This made me think of Grover sitting in a rocking chair on a porch hand hewing a Larada, CAFO cranking in the background.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Kyle Jordan said:


> This made me think of Grover sitting in a rocking chair on a porch hand hewing a Larada, CAFO cranking in the background.


----------



## jephjacques

MaxOfMetal said:


>



back in MY day we carved our guitars with rusty spoons! the strings were catgut and the pickups were radioactive and we LIKED IT


----------



## Tiagodinis

Hi guys, do they sell to europe? i cant find it anywhere :S.


----------



## StevenC

Tiagodinis said:


> Hi guys, do they sell to europe? i cant find it anywhere :S.


They will ship to Europe apparently, but I haven't tried it yet.


----------



## CanserDYI

Man, do they ever have anything in stock?!


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

CanserDYI said:


> Man, do they ever have anything in stock?!



For 5 minutes every 3 months. #nikebot

I guess they’ll scale things up when it makes sense.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

It's crazy how many of the original Falbasi's are still available. You'd figure by now folks would "oops" into buying them.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Hell lord knows I’ve been close to ‘oops’ buying them


----------



## CanserDYI

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's crazy how many of the original Falbasi's are still available. You'd figure by now folks would "oops" into buying them.


Falbasi? Are these the one's made from the old luthier he used and fired? (i have no idea the actual story)


----------



## KnightBrolaire

CanserDYI said:


> Falbasi? Are these the one's made from the old luthier he used and fired? (i have no idea the actual story)


yes


----------



## ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER

k so theres been a bunch of shit being said in this thread and i kinda just want to know if someone can help me out and let me know which luthiers/companies i should be very wary of when buying from them. ive only been playing guitar for about a year and idk jack shit about brands or luthiers, i just have an ibanez rg8 and i really want an abasi lol.


----------



## narad

ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER said:


> k so theres been a bunch of shit being said in this thread and i kinda just want to know if someone can help me out and let me know which luthiers/companies i should be very wary of when buying from them. ive only been playing guitar for about a year and idk jack shit about brands or luthiers, i just have an ibanez rg8 and i really want an abasi lol.



If you've been playing for about a year, you probably won't even notice the kinds of flaws the abasis are shipping with, so go for it!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jack McGoldrick said:


> Hell lord knows I’ve been close to ‘oops’ slamming my dick in a door.



God bless.


----------



## ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER

narad said:


> If you've been playing for about a year, you probably won't even notice the kinds of flaws the abasis are shipping with, so go for it!


oh word what kind of flaws do the abasis ship with


----------



## bassisace

ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER said:


> oh word what kind of flaws do the abasis ship with



Disclaimer: all guitar brands have a percentage of flawed builds. I have no clue if Abasi has more or less flawed builds than other builders.

If you scroll back in this thread, you’ll find some complaints. Some Legions have had badly placed nuts, tool marks on body and pickups, bad paint jobs bleeding on headstock. Other models have had tool marks, unleveled frets, warped necks and misaligned pickups.

Again, no clue if this is widespread or not.

On the flip side there have been raving reviews. I’ll let a bit of time go by and if their reputation is good, I’ll buy one. They look and sound sick.


----------



## narad

bassisace said:


> On the flip side there have been raving reviews. I’ll let a bit of time go by and if their reputation is good, I’ll buy one. They look and sound sick.



Some have even said the guitars are fourth dimensional. Take that with a grain of salt until such claims can be confirmed by a respectable lab.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

narad said:


> Some have even said the guitars are fourth dimensional. Take that with a grain of salt until such claims can be confirmed by a respectable lab.



Well, “Larada” is Portuguese for Large Hadron Collider…


----------



## ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER

bassisace said:


> Disclaimer: all guitar brands have a percentage of flawed builds. I have no clue if Abasi has more or less flawed builds than other builders.
> 
> If you scroll back in this thread, you’ll find some complaints. Some Legions have had badly placed nuts, tool marks on body and pickups, bad paint jobs bleeding on headstock. Other models have had tool marks, unleveled frets, warped necks and misaligned pickups.
> 
> Again, no clue if this is widespread or not.
> 
> On the flip side there have been raving reviews. I’ll let a bit of time go by and if their reputation is good, I’ll buy one. They look and sound sick.


oh worddd yeah if its just shit like thats fine by me. now to save up 3k... haha


----------



## j3ps3

ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER said:


> oh worddd yeah if its just shit like thats fine by me. now to save up 3k... haha


stuff like that on a guitar that costs 3k is fine?  fanbois gonna fanboi I guess


----------



## BlackMastodon

ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER said:


> oh worddd yeah if its just shit like thats fine by me. now to save up 3k... haha


"Shit like that" can be acceptable on a $500 guitar or a second/third-hand one, but definitely not on one that's $3k.

I don't know your situation and maybe it's your dream to own one of these, but when I was in my teens and playing I couldn't even fathom spending $3k for a guitar. I don't mean this as a knock against you and I don't wanna piss on your parade, but if you've only been playing for a year then you don't even know what specs you're looking for that suit your style best. Start buying and trading low- to mid- level gear and see what you like best.

If you really want to get a high end guitar then others here have already recommended a few other brands that have way better track records. ABASI Concepts has had, what, like 5 limited drops of <20 guitars? I haven't been paying that close of attention so I don't know the actual number that they've sold, but getting something like a used Mayones or Suhr will get your way more mileage.

Or if you really want the clout/internet dick measuring points then it's your money. Hopefully you can make your money back if/when you want to sell it down the road. Like j3ps3 said, fanbois gonna fanboi.


----------



## MrWulf

How many ppl are buying Abasis only because they idolize Tosin and thinking that his guitars are the gateway to his skills....


----------



## NCeuRign

Me! Hasn't worked out yet though.


----------



## bassisace

narad said:


> Some have even said the guitars are fourth dimensional. Take that with a grain of salt until such claims can be confirmed by a respectable lab.



Haha! I was trying to be impartial *shrug*. To be fair, some people that I trust have been pretty happy with their Japanese Larada. Hungry being one of them. Maybe he got super lucky and he even said that he wouldn't roll the dice again.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

bassisace said:


> Haha! I was trying to be impartial *shrug*. To be fair, some people that I trust have been pretty happy with their Japanese Larada. Hungry being one of them. Maybe he got super lucky and he even said that he wouldn't roll the dice again.



Didn't talk about dice rolling of any kind.

I like my J Larada 7. Dunno if I was lucky or not.

I only have 3 guitars now: Larada 7, EB Music Man JP11 in six and seven strings.

I mostly play 6 strings these days due to arm problems and I looooove the JP11. 

So I don't need more instruments (yet). That's it Matlock


----------



## ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER

oh word


j3ps3 said:


> stuff like that on a guitar that costs 3k is fine?  fanbois gonna fanboi I guess


i am just a tosin fanboy, what is there to be done...


----------



## ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER

BlackMastodon said:


> "Shit like that" can be acceptable on a $500 guitar or a second/third-hand one, but definitely not on one that's $3k.
> 
> I don't know your situation and maybe it's your dream to own one of these, but when I was in my teens and playing I couldn't even fathom spending $3k for a guitar. I don't mean this as a knock against you and I don't wanna piss on your parade, but if you've only been playing for a year then you don't even know what specs you're looking for that suit your style best. Start buying and trading low- to mid- level gear and see what you like best.
> 
> If you really want to get a high end guitar then others here have already recommended a few other brands that have way better track records. ABASI Concepts has had, what, like 5 limited drops of <20 guitars? I haven't been paying that close of attention so I don't know the actual number that they've sold, but getting something like a used Mayones or Suhr will get your way more mileage.
> 
> Or if you really want the clout/internet dick measuring points then it's your money. Hopefully you can make your money back if/when you want to sell it down the road. Like j3ps3 said, fanbois gonna fanboi.


ohhh i see. yeah youre right, im not financially able to get an abasi any time soon but even then i should really know what specs im looking for - i will be heeding your words. are there sites i should be looking at to buy or sell guitars specifically with low to mid ranged gear? thanks for the advice


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Don’t get gear, get lessons, that’s the best advice I have


----------



## BlackMastodon

ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER said:


> ohhh i see. yeah youre right, im not financially able to get an abasi any time soon but even then i should really know what specs im looking for - i will be heeding your words. are there sites i should be looking at to buy or sell guitars specifically with low to mid ranged gear? thanks for the advice


I don't wanna tell you what to do with your money, I just see a very high chance of buyer's remorse if you save up hard earned cash and then it turns out it's not what you expected.


----------



## Xaeldaren

I'm curious about the string spacing on these since Tosin was touting that as a selling point. Anyone have the stats?


----------



## ETHER(AETHER)OFETHER

BlackMastodon said:


> I don't wanna tell you what to do with your money, I just see a very high chance of buyer's remorse if you save up hard earned cash and then it turns out it's not what you expected.


i see i see, appreciate the suggestion a lot


----------



## Jackillin

That sounds bad. 

If they're making too many to properly QC each before sending out why is it impossible to buy them?! Always sold out!
Just askin'



bassisace said:


> Disclaimer: all guitar brands have a percentage of flawed builds. I have no clue if Abasi has more or less flawed builds than other builders.
> 
> If you scroll back in this thread, you’ll find some complaints. Some Legions have had badly placed nuts, tool marks on body and pickups, bad paint jobs bleeding on headstock. Other models have had tool marks, unleveled frets, warped necks and misaligned pickups.
> 
> Again, no clue if this is widespread or not.
> 
> On the flip side there have been raving reviews. I’ll let a bit of time go by and if their reputation is good, I’ll buy one. They look and sound sick.


----------



## Hollowway

Xaeldaren said:


> I'm curious about the string spacing on these since Tosin was touting that as a selling point. Anyone have the stats?


I remember something about that. Was it supposed to be narrower or wider? I don’t remember any details.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

It was supposed to be narrower like how Doug designed the B8 to have the strings closer together so it wouldn’t feel like a 6 string with 2 extra strings. It’s a much better solution than what other companies do by taking a mm or two off the edge of the fretboard causing the string to slip off.


----------



## Hollowway

Lorcan Ward said:


> It was supposed to be narrower like how Doug designed the B8 to have the strings closer together so it wouldn’t feel like a 6 string with 2 extra strings. It’s a much better solution than what other companies do by taking a mm or two off the edge of the fretboard causing the string to slip off.


Crap, that’s right. I remember now. Which sucks, because I’ve had one guitar with tighter string spacing, and was never able to adapt.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I personally love it. I have it on my two Carillion 7s and found a noticeable difference in my playing when transitioning back to regular spacing on Ibanez/Schecter/other customs. 

The big downside is picking clean chords becomes hard because there’s less clearance room.


----------



## Omid

Considering buying one of these. Have a budget of 4K€. Considering these are still newcomer guitars, are they worth it? I’d the quality similar to those of Ernie Ball JPs? 

Also, what is the difference between all the Larada types? Master, J, legion etc?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Omid said:


> Considering buying one of these. Have a budget of 4K€. Considering these are still newcomer guitars, are they worth it? I’d the quality similar to those of Ernie Ball JPs?
> 
> Also, what is the difference between all the Larada types? Master, J, legion etc?



Man, we should really have a thread answering these questions.


----------



## diagrammatiks

MaxOfMetal said:


> Man, we should really have a thread answering these questions.



tosin loves it when ya’ll do free work for him


----------



## Omid

MaxOfMetal said:


> Man, we should really have a thread answering these questions.


Well is there a thread? Can you link it?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Not a thread per say 

https://abasiconcepts.com/


----------



## Hollowway

Omid said:


> Well is there a thread? Can you link it?


https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/abasi-concepts-larada-megathread.302983/page-337#post-5301918

And if that doesn’t work, try:

https://www.tomorrowtides.com/larada-spec-breakdown.html


----------



## MrWulf

Omid said:


> Considering buying one of these. Have a budget of 4K€. Considering these are still newcomer guitars, are they worth it? I’d the quality similar to those of Ernie Ball JPs?
> 
> Also, what is the difference between all the Larada types? Master, J, legion etc?



nope nope nope. The Ernie Ball JP are almost universally lauded due to their quality and craftsmanship. Meanwhile if you look thru this thread you have plenty of examples of Larada being less than quality, especially in the QC department. Heck, since you have 4K Euros you might as well get a custom from any reputable custom EU brand like Skarvensen or Mayones tbqh


----------



## RobDobble6S7

Yup. If you have that much, EBMM is genuinely pristine production work.


----------



## thebeesknees22

@Hollowway


RobDobble6S7 said:


> Yup. If you have that much, EBMM is genuinely pristine production work.



They're kinda ugly tough tbh. The designs on the music man line are so...blah. (not my thing at least) 

Except for the St Vincent model. That one's kinda cool, but they don't make it in a 7 string.


----------



## MrWulf

EBMM always has wonky designs. I really really like the Majesty, but that headstock is just dumb. But EBMM always have very very high quality standards + playability.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Most JPs are borderline generic super Strats. Just so inoffensive.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

MaxOfMetal said:


> Most JPs are borderline generic super Strats. Just so inoffensive.



I’ll never forget my reaction when the JPs were first shown. It was a kind of puzzled underwhelmed thing. They seemed different but still generic. I remember folks kind of going gaga over the Chameleon finish, but you could easily have gotten the same on a USA Select Jackson at the time and for years at that point. 

They were and are still nice, but kind of paled to his Ibanez sigs IMO. The Majesty is a pretty killer design to me though.


----------



## Jackillin

So I spoke to a local guitar store and they've actually ordered some 8 string Larada Legions. It's in my price range, not the colour that I would have chosen but I think i can live with that. I've been looking for a good mid-range priced 8 string for a while & I like the look, ergenomics will suit me, scale length is same as what I play now & I've heard nothing but great things about the pups. Should I take the plunge? I've just seen here a few people complain about quality control. I def not wanting something badly made at that price...this is a guitar I plan to invest in, be learning & playing on for the next 10+ years...

My other serious considerations were a semi-custom Skeversen or a custom Balaguer both of which may end up a little pricer but I'd get my colour, knobs etc..




MrWulf said:


> nope nope nope. The Ernie Ball JP are almost universally lauded due to their quality and craftsmanship. Meanwhile if you look thru this thread you have plenty of examples of Larada being less than quality, especially in the QC department. Heck, since you have 4K Euros you might as well get a custom from any reputable custom EU brand like Skarvensen or Mayones tbqh


----------



## Jackillin

I'd love to wait for this mythical Majesty 8 to finally come out but I think it'll be way above what i can afford. 



Kyle Jordan said:


> I’ll never forget my reaction when the JPs were first shown. It was a kind of puzzled underwhelmed thing. They seemed different but still generic. I remember folks kind of going gaga over the Chameleon finish, but you could easily have gotten the same on a USA Select Jackson at the time and for years at that point.
> 
> They were and are still nice, but kind of paled to his Ibanez sigs IMO. The Majesty is a pretty killer design to me though.


----------



## StevenC

MrWulf said:


> reputable custom EU brand like Skarvensen


Citation needed


----------



## bassisace

Jackillin said:


> That sounds bad.
> 
> If they're making too many to properly QC each before sending out why is it impossible to buy them?! Always sold out!
> Just askin'



Dunno, but you can scroll back in this thread to get pics of bad builds.



thebeesknees22 said:


> @Hollowway
> 
> 
> They're kinda ugly tough tbh. The designs on the music man line are so...blah. (not my thing at least)
> 
> Except for the St Vincent model. That one's kinda cool, but they don't make it in a 7 string.



EBMM JPs aren’t that hot visually, but they more than make up for it in build quality and playability.


----------



## NCeuRign

I've got a jp12. It's great. But the Larada is the only guitar I've played since I got it and that's what's on my lap right now.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

My goto 7 string: J Larada.

My goto 6 string: EBMM JP 11.

For 6 strings, I've had a Suhr modern, an EBMM JP 15 and a couple Ibanez Prestige.

For my tastes, the JP 11 blows them out of the water playability-wise and lead-tone-wise.


----------



## narad

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> My goto 7 string: J Larada.
> 
> My goto 6 string: EBMM JP 11.
> 
> For 6 strings, I've had a Suhr modern, an EBMM JP 15 and a couple Ibanez Prestige.
> 
> For my tastes, the JP 11 blows them out of the water playability-wise and lead-tone-wise.



What was so different JP15 vs JP11?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

Yeah a lot of this seems to come down to form vs function


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

narad said:


> What was so different JP15 vs JP11?



For me, the JP 11 has better playability than the JP 15. I also prefer the lead tone (with stock pickups). It's the guitar I use to practice leads and record them.

JP11 has slimmer D-shaped neck with 20'' radius, which I prefer.

JP 15 has 17'' radius (not a huge difference with 20'') and bulkier neck profile.

Other differences that aren't deal breakers for me: back of neck finish (JP 15: Gunstock oil and hand-rubbed special wax blend, JP 11: gloss), pickups and tonewoods are also different.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

I also had an Abasi Spartan 6 for a couple weeks, but returned it because there were dings on it and I didn't like the upper neck access, which is just personal preference based on thumb position (the set neck had a weird slope for my thumb at the body junction). I have no problem with the upper-neck access of the J Larada 7 bolt-on. I have a friend who loves the Spartan 6. Different strokes for different folks. Long story short: try 'em before you buy 'em is the lesson I learned.


----------



## Omid

StevenC said:


> Citation needed


What’s the matter with them? I just sent out a form to them.


----------



## Soya

Skervesen *


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Soya said:


> Skervesen *



OT:

Like a million years ago (what it feels like), when Skerv was fairly new, I once had the audacity to accidently spell it wrong and no less than five of their employees sent me PMs to fix it. 

So I get a little chuckle when I see others butcher the spelling. All I think is "oh shit, their inbox is going to be on fire!"


----------



## Opion

MaxOfMetal said:


> OT:
> 
> Like a million years ago (what it feels like), when Skerv was fairly new, I once had the audacity to accidently spell it wrong and no less than five of their employees sent me PMs to fix it.
> 
> So I get a little chuckle when I see others butcher the spelling. All I think is "oh shit, their inbox is going to be on fire!"



That's honestly hilarious.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

MaxOfMetal said:


> Most JPs are borderline generic super Strats. Just so inoffensive.



In terms of looks, I agree. My JPXI six string is my ugliest guitar, but playability-wise it’s my best.


----------



## Chevygizmo

It’s crazy. All of the ones that sold out in seconds are on Reverb for ridiculous prices. So want to get one. But maybe I should wait for a JP8


----------



## Bassnguitar

does anyone know the:
- string spacing
- nut width
- neck thickness
for the larada master 8?

I tried emailing them a couple of times but never heard back


----------



## BigViolin

They have plenty of buyers without having to answer questions about the actual product. Why would they waste their time?


----------



## Chevygizmo

do they have plenty of buyers now. the market might be saturated. is the hype dead with all of them usa master series on reverb not selling? do people just implusively buy these things on the drop then have buyers remorse a few months later?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Chevygizmo said:


> do they have plenty of buyers now. the market might be saturated. is the hype dead with all of them usa master series on reverb not selling? do people just implusively buy these things on the drop then have buyers remorse a few months later?



I think a lot of folks want to see what the hype is, and then move it quickly before the next drop to not lose anything on it.


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> to not lose anything on it



Like this is going to happen.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> Like this is going to happen.



They've been pretty much selling at the price people paid +/- the cost of shipping.

Try doing that with just about anything else. 

If you have the cash in hand, and don't need it, it's a pretty low risk proposition for the time being.


----------



## Bassnguitar

At this point i’ll prolly just wait for the 8 string majesty. JP said in  that it’s gonna be a fanned fret with fixed bridge!


----------



## CW7

MrWulf said:


> nope nope nope. The Ernie Ball JP are almost universally lauded due to their quality and craftsmanship. Meanwhile if you look thru this thread you have plenty of examples of Larada being less than quality, especially in the QC department. Heck, since you have 4K Euros you might as well get a custom from any reputable custom EU brand like Skarvensen or Mayones tbqh


I’ll chime in. I would not put the Laradas on par with the EB stuff. BUT- I’ll also say after owning numerous EBMMs that they are not without fault (I had a string of fret issues on Majesty’s, but that’s another thread for another day). 

The Laradas are “overpriced” In the sense of what you can get for comparable money. 4k buys a LOT of guitar , especially used. (You can get just about any high end boutique build second hand , save for maybe Toone and a couple others, in that 4s range used . Too many brands to name). The bottom line is- do you like the design? THAT is what you’re paying for (that and the hype factor- it’s still at a fever pitch, which explains why a couple years ago these were 2400 USD, and now the same guitar is 4k+). I’ve owned too many Abasi’s to count- I kept a 7 because it’s light, snappy, and after a fret level and saddle work (yes- a brand new guitar I paid 3500.00 needed fret work and bridge work. NOT OK). But it has its own vibe and I dig it so I kept ONE. Sold the rest. If you go in knowing you’re paying a premium for the hype/exclusivity factor, you’ll be ok. As soon as you say “what else is available for 4k?…” you’re in for some disappointing imho.


----------



## Thrav

Well this was a super disappointing thread to read, but glad I did. Was considering on buying a Abasi master series 8… after this, I may as well go for another Strandberg… maybe a Kiesel or Aristides as well.

Any devils advocate here ?


----------



## narad

Thrav said:


> Well this was a super disappointing thread to read, but glad I did. Was considering on buying a Abasi master series 8… after this, I may as well go for another Strandberg… maybe a Kiesel or Aristides as well.
> 
> Any devils advocate here ?



Wait until you see the Strandberg threads...


----------



## Thrav

narad said:


> Wait until you see the Strandberg threads...



I love my Metal 8. Sure there’s some slight issues but nothing that’s caused me to regret a purchase. 

So essentially the only guitars worth buying from this thread is EBMM .


----------



## StevenC

Thrav said:


> I love my Metal 8. Sure there’s some slight issues but nothing that’s caused me to regret a purchase.
> 
> So essentially the only guitars worth buying from this thread is EBMM .


If you think your Strandberg was worth the money then you'll probably love any Abasi.


----------



## Thrav

StevenC said:


> If you think your Strandberg was worth the money then you'll probably love any Abasi.



Isn’t an Abasi master around 3500? That’s well over what I paid for my metal 8.


----------



## Hollowway

Thrav said:


> Isn’t an Abasi master around 3500? That’s well over what I paid for my metal 8.


But you won’t have to grind down the zero fret to get proper action, so there’s that.


----------



## Thrav

Hollowway said:


> But you won’t have to grind down the zero fret to get proper action, so there’s that.



Uh, I have no problem with the action on mine. Can you explain this fault ? Either I got extremely lucky with my strand or I may be less concerned with the smallest of details. The one thing that bothers me for sure on it is the high E string sits to close to the edge of the board for my taste. But nothing at all I can see coming from the action. No fret buzz and plays like butter. 

I’m not gear expert or anything. Without a doubt most here will have more knowledge than me, but I’ve been playing around 13 years so I’m familiar with the basics. I’m not entirely sure I’m as concerned with some people here about the minor details of finding a small chip you can find or paint problems. I’ll likely end up putting one or two over the years anyhow and it’s just unneeded stress (personally speaking) fixate over such a small issue. I mean, I was a mechanic for years and let me tell you… the amount of cars that I could easily find scratches, chips…be it internally or externally, by the standards of people here, no one would ever own one lol (even higher end 100K plus). The small stuff Adds character for me. But I do want t avoid the bigger issues like nut and fretboard problems for sure. 

I guess given some of the complaints I should order a legion models if anything given the QC issues all around. Less money spent. 

other than that, do you have a recommendation for an 8 string? Preferably multi scale, that doesn’t require me to use Kiesels pickups lol. 

I hope none of that came off passive aggressive. If it did, was unintended.


----------



## Bassnguitar

if you like a thicker neck (since all the other 8s have thin necks), you can try a custom Skerv. They should also cost around $4k (which is Larada USA anyways)


----------



## I play music

Thrav said:


> Well this was a super disappointing thread to read, but glad I did. Was considering on buying a Abasi master series 8… after this, I may as well go for another Strandberg… maybe a Kiesel or Aristides as well.
> 
> Any devils advocate here ?


Aristides, Ltd M-1008 Multiscale, Ibanez rg 5328, maybe Schecter also has something
I'd personally stay away from Kiesel, Abasi, Ormsby and probably also Strandberg


----------



## Hollowway

Thrav said:


> Uh, I have no problem with the action on mine. Can you explain this fault ? Either I got extremely lucky with my strand or I may be less concerned with the smallest of details. The one thing that bothers me for sure on it is the high E string sits to close to the edge of the board for my taste. But nothing at all I can see coming from the action. No fret buzz and plays like butter.
> 
> I’m not gear expert or anything. Without a doubt most here will have more knowledge than me, but I’ve been playing around 13 years so I’m familiar with the basics. I’m not entirely sure I’m as concerned with some people here about the minor details of finding a small chip you can find or paint problems. I’ll likely end up putting one or two over the years anyhow and it’s just unneeded stress (personally speaking) fixate over such a small issue. I mean, I was a mechanic for years and let me tell you… the amount of cars that I could easily find scratches, chips…be it internally or externally, by the standards of people here, no one would ever own one lol (even higher end 100K plus). The small stuff Adds character for me. But I do want t avoid the bigger issues like nut and fretboard problems for sure.
> 
> I guess given some of the complaints I should order a legion models if anything given the QC issues all around. Less money spent.
> 
> other than that, do you have a recommendation for an 8 string? Preferably multi scale, that doesn’t require me to use Kiesels pickups lol.
> 
> I hope none of that came off passive aggressive. If it did, was unintended.



I’m just being snarky. I have a Boden 8 and love it, myself. But what I was referring to is that they have a zero fret which is higher than all of the other frets. High nuts are a pet peeve of mine, and I typically love zero frets because it eliminates the need for super accurate nut slotting. But, for whatever reason, Ola chose to put a zero fret on, but then purposely make it higher than the other frets, thereby negating one of the huge advantages of zero frets. People say the advantage is that once the zero fret wears down, you can re-crown it, and the guitar will have perfect action. But I don’t want to buy a guitar, and wait for the first fret leveling, years later, to get it to its ideal action.


----------



## CW7

You will have to have the frets leveled and the saddled filed down for low action (EVERY single master 8 and J I’ve owned needed this).


----------



## CW7

Thrav said:


> Isn’t an Abasi master around 3500? That’s well over what I paid for my metal 8.



CLoser to 4k now, actually.


----------



## Thrav

CW7 said:


> CLoser to 4k now, actually.



yeah at that point I’m going to get an Aristides then. 

Just priced a raw H/08 out and came out to 3400$. Not even going to mess with Abasi then.


----------



## CW7

Thrav said:


> yeah at that point I’m going to get an Aristides then.
> 
> Just priced a raw H/08 out and came out to 3400$. Not even going to mess with Abasi then.


This is not an unwise move.


----------



## StevenC

Laradas going live at 3am without warning won't be conducive to me buying one.

Lucky this was only for lefties.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Fingers crossed they don't just silently drop the next release. Although at this point, it would be mostly true to form.


----------



## bassisace

Thrav said:


> So essentially the only guitars worth buying from this thread is EBMM .



Suhr, EBMM, Aristides, Ibanez, etc.

Strandbers have had problems with their fret work and trems for years now. Doesn’t mean they’re all lemons.

If you can try before buying then go for it. I’d not order one blindly.


----------



## BradleyAllan

bassisace said:


> Suhr, EBMM, Aristides, Ibanez, etc.
> 
> Strandbers have had problems with their fret work and trems for years now. Doesn’t mean they’re all lemons.
> 
> If you can try before buying then go for it. I’d not order one blindly.



Agree with what you said about Strandberg’s man. I’ve had a couple that I loved but purchased a new Poplar Burl Prog 7 a couple weeks back with a bunch of un level frets / sharp fret ends. Had my tech do a video with the fret rocker and they (Strandberg) completely dismissed the issue and said that they don’t cover frets in their warranty. I’m coming out of pocket to have it PLEK’ed rn and then moving away from Strandberg. Having been playing them a shit ton the last couple years I wasn’t expecting that from them as a company so be super careful with what you get. 
I know allot of people have allot of doubts about the Abasi’s but I love my Master Series 8. It’s a beast of a guitar. Granted I to reattach the Fishman Battery pack it’s been very solid. About to order a Aristides h/08r.


----------



## Thrav

bassisace said:


> Suhr, EBMM, Aristides, Ibanez, etc.
> 
> Strandbers have had problems with their fret work and trems for years now. Doesn’t mean they’re all lemons.
> 
> If you can try before buying then go for it. I’d not order one blindly.




Yeah I’ve been hearing mixed messages with Strands. Mine is exceptional, I even brought it to a tech to see if he sees anything that I may be missing. The high E does feel to close to the edge in some places but that’s something I’ve ran into even on EBMM(not saying Strands are better, that’s a ridiculous statement just going off my experience).



BradleyAllan said:


> Agree with what you said about Strandberg’s man. I’ve had a couple that I loved but purchased a new Poplar Burl Prog 7 a couple weeks back with a bunch of un level frets / sharp fret ends. Had my tech do a video with the fret rocker and they (Strandberg) completely dismissed the issue and said that they don’t cover frets in their warranty. I’m coming out of pocket to have it PLEK’ed rn and then moving away from Strandberg. Having been playing them a shit ton the last couple years I wasn’t expecting that from them as a company so be super careful with what you get.
> I know allot of people have allot of doubts about the Abasi’s but I love my Master Series 8. It’s a beast of a guitar. Granted I to reattach the Fishman Battery pack it’s been very solid. About to order a Aristides h/08r.



Yeah I’ve heard the prog lines having issues in particular. 

it sure is tempting not to buy an Abasi Master since they’ll be dropping some this month supposedly, and wouldn’t have to wait 10 months for a custom. I’ve been debating between Aristides or a Skerv atm. Originally decided I was going with Aristides but I just really wish they had more…Idk, “creative” looking models. I have a 6 string on the way with them though. 

Skervs 8 string swan looks fricken beautiful to me.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

Thrav said:


> I’ve been debating between Aristides or a Skerv atm.
> 
> Skervs 8 string swan looks fricken beautiful to me.


I really like their new jazzmaster model.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Thrav said:


> Yeah I’ve been hearing mixed messages with Strands. Mine is exceptional, I even brought it to a tech to see if he sees anything that I may be missing. The high E does feel to close to the edge in some places but that’s something I’ve ran into even on EBMM(not saying Strands are better, that’s a ridiculous statement just going off my experience).
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I’ve heard the prog lines having issues in particular.
> 
> it sure is tempting not to buy an Abasi Master since they’ll be dropping some this month supposedly, and wouldn’t have to wait 10 months for a custom. I’ve been debating between Aristides or a Skerv atm. Originally decided I was going with Aristides but I just really wish they had more…Idk, “creative” looking models. I have a 6 string on the way with them though.
> 
> Skervs 8 string swan looks fricken beautiful to me.


My Abasi Master Series has been and absolute beast of a guitar but have heard that some people have had QC issues with theirs. The only thing I would change about the Abasi would be to make it headless because of the slight neck dive I get with mine. But that’s also influenced by the fact that I’ve been playing Strandberg’s for the last couple of years and how balanced they feel especially in classical position. Definitely going to try to pick up another next drop if there’s a Shell Pink / Regular Birdseye Maple fretboard or something along those lines build wise. They’re a bitch to get because they sell out within a minute or two so if you do decide be ready to move immediately when they drop. 
I also ordered a Valravn 8 that just shipped so I’ll report back on the build / QC of it when I get it. I randomly came across them and liked the single cut shape so put a build in quickly to try to get one. I was able to get one and have him to stain the poplar Burl top a light grey ish color which he hadn’t done before with a Birdseye maple fretboard and white Abasi’s and the pictures look dope so super curious to see how it looks / feels / plays in person. Agree with the others that you def take a risk with a new luthier but took the jump anyways. I tend to be more risk adverse with stuff like this so went outside my comfort zone. But am impressed up to to this point with how they’ve handled everything so far. Should have it in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Thrav

BradleyAllan said:


> My Abasi Master Series has been and absolute beast of a guitar but have heard that some people have had QC issues with theirs. The only thing I would change about the Abasi would be to make it headless because of the slight neck dive I get with mine. But that’s also influenced by the fact that I’ve been playing Strandberg’s for the last couple of years and how balanced they feel especially in classical position. Definitely going to try to pick up another next drop if there’s a Shell Pink / Regular Birdseye Maple fretboard or something along those lines build wise. They’re a bitch to get because they sell out within a minute or two so if you do decide be ready to move immediately when they drop.
> I also ordered a Valravn 8 that just shipped so I’ll report back on the build / QC of it when I get it. I randomly came across them and liked the single cut shape so put a build in quickly to try to get one. I was able to get one and have him to stain the poplar Burl top a light grey ish color which he hadn’t done before with a Birdseye maple fretboard and white Abasi’s and the pictures look dope so super curious to see how it looks / feels / plays in person. Agree with the others that you def take a risk with a new luthier but took the jump anyways. I tend to be more risk adverse with stuff like this so went outside my comfort zone. But am impressed up to to this point with how they’ve handled everything so far. Should have it in a couple of weeks.



I honestly didn’t buy my strand because it was headless, I bought it mainly for the endurneck and the ergonomical shape. Like you said, feels great for classical position which is pretty much the position I’m in 98% of the time. (Besides the horrid, horrid input jack placement, I’m baffled Ola did not see that being a problem) 

For me, headless causes me to lift the neck up and down a lot. Which is why the Abasi looked enticing because it still had more ergonomical body shape but with a headstock. For me, it would feel more balanced.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Thrav said:


> I honestly didn’t buy my strand because it was headless, I bought it mainly for the endurneck and the ergonomical shape. Like you said, feels great for classical position which is pretty much the position I’m in 98% of the time. (Besides the horrid, horrid input jack placement, I’m baffled Ola did not see that being a problem)
> 
> For me, headless causes me to lift the neck up and down a lot. Which is why the Abasi looked enticing because it still had more ergonomical body shape but with a headstock. For me, it would feel more balanced.


I actually didn’t buy the Strandberg’s because they were headless either but got so used to how they felt that for me personally made the neck dive more noticeable. But I’ve been playing the Abasi all week and man I love that guitar. It does actually feel really balanced. Definitely going to try to pick up another Master Series next drop.


----------



## Thrav

BradleyAllan said:


> I actually didn’t buy the Strandberg’s because they were headless either but got so used to how they felt that for me personally made the neck dive more noticeable. But I’ve been playing the Abasi all week and man I love that guitar. It does actually feel really balanced. Definitely going to try to pick up another Master Series next drop.




I may do the same still. Worse comes to worse Abasi resells good. Could get my money back pretty easy I bet. I mean that’s IF I can order one before they get snatched up.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Thrav said:


> I may do the same still. Worse comes to worse Abasi resells good. Could get my money back pretty easy I bet. I mean that’s IF I can order one before they get snatched up.


Yeah man they resell very well, sometimes more than you actually pay for them new. The trick is to just be ready to go immediately when the drop goes live. Know which one you’re going to try for and try to check out as fast as you can. I’ve literally gotten to the point where I put my CC info in and when I hit purchase it said it was no longer available. If there’s a Shell Pink / Birdseyes Fretboard on the next drop I’m gonna book ass on trying to get that shit LOL. But I don’t regret buying my Master Series. It’s been an incredible guitar for me personally.


----------



## Cockandballs

So new to this thread. But I have a J7 Larada maple fretboard shell pink - it’s pure bliss. Quite surprised actually. I’m mainly a 7 string player. Played pretty much everything at NAMM and have a pretty extensive collection. I’d place this one up there as my top 7 string. Got lucky on the drop a while back and snagged one. The neck is the most comfortable one that I’ve played. Not a fan of the Strandberg necks. I like having my thumb over the fingerboard. I’d like to snag an Orange one.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Cockandballs said:


> So new to this thread. But I have a J7 Larada maple fretboard shell pink - it’s pure bliss. Quite surprised actually. I’m mainly a 7 string player. Played pretty much everything at NAMM and have a pretty extensive collection. I’d place this one up there as my top 7 string. Got lucky on the drop a while back and snagged one. The neck is one the most comfortable one that I’ve played. Not a fan of the Strandberg necks. I like having my thumb over the fingerboard. I’d like to snag an Orange one.


I actually dig the endurneck on the Strandy’s but after Strandberg said they wouldn’t cover their frets in their warranty on a brand new Poplar Burl Prog 7 I picked up that had multiple un level frets I’m moving on. The Prog 7 is getting PLEK’ed rn (paying for that myself) and I’m about to sell my other Poplar Burl Original 6 with gold BKP Silos. About to order an Aristides. 

Man super jealous of the shell pink / maple combo LOL. Love the look of those! I haven’t played a J Larada but people who have them seem to really dig the asymmetrical neck on them. I’ll def try to score a J Larada 7 or 8 if it’s shell pink / Birdseye maple next drop. The Master Series 8 is kinda of a wide thin neck but really dig how fast it feels. When I got the Selenite Master Series I could’ve gotten the Orange one because it was in the same drop. Looked dope as well. I didn’t realize they had a shell pink same drop until after I had scored mine quick enough. But def stoked to try a J Series.


----------



## Cockandballs

I have the have the master 8 too. It’s really wide and thin. But playing an 8 string is a way different thing than a 7. I play big chordal things on the 8 and cliche djent. Not really soloing in it. The 7 I play rock, metal, blues and leads stuff. You can do the thumb over the neck which I need for big bends. I can’t do that on the 8. Oddly enough the quality was better on the 7. But the master 8 is great if you can get one too. I have one of the mist/purple color shift ones.


----------



## Cockandballs

On those drops. You have fractions of seconds to make a decision. It’s like the F1 of guitar buying. I just got lucky each time.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Cockandballs said:


> I have the have the master 8 too. It’s really wide and thin. But playing an 8 string is a way different thing than a 7. I play big chordal things on the 8 and cliche djent. Not really soloing in it. The 7 I play rock, metal, blues and leads stuff. You can do the thumb over the neck which I need for big bends. I can’t do that on the 8. Oddly enough the quality was better on the 7. But the master 8 is great if you can get one too. I have one of the mist/purple color shift ones.


Def


Cockandballs said:


> On those drops. You have fractions of seconds to make a decision. It’s like the F1 of guitar buying. I just got lucky each time.


Hahahaha yeah man it took me two drops before I got mine quick enough. I’m ready for the next…


----------



## Cockandballs

BradleyAllan said:


> Def
> 
> Hahahaha yeah man it took me two drops before I got mine quick enough. I’m ready for the next…


...I think on that drop it was between the graphic and that purple burst and I just click panicked and checked out. Literally my finger was on the first one that appeared when I clicked refresh. It was stressful. But yeah I'm excited about the next drop.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Cockandballs said:


> ...I think on that drop it was between the graphic and that purple burst and I just click panicked and checked out. Literally my finger was on the first one that appeared when I clicked refresh. It was stressful. But yeah I'm excited about the next drop.



Hahahaha yeah man same LOL. It was either my second or third drop where I finally got through the checkout process w/o it being gone by the time I hit pay. Had my wife move one of her meetings to help and it was her that bought it quicker than I could with both of us trying LOL. I’m gonna have her do the same on the next drop LOL. Also they’ve been previewing them on the day of the drop last couple of times which has super helpful. I had to goto the Master Series section when I got mine because it took a min for the homepage to refresh. I tried to grab the pink sparkle space t last drop and that shit was sold out within 30 seconds.


----------



## hayfever

B stock larada legions* on sale today at 6pm pst. Email specifically says cosmetic defects only so I’m curious to see how they resolved all the nut issues


----------



## Hollowway

hayfever said:


> B stock larada legions* on sale today at 6pm pst. Email specifically says cosmetic defects only so I’m curious to see how they resolved all the nut issues



Yeah, I can't decide if I want one or not. They're a fairly cool body shape, but other than that there's nothing that really makes me want to get one. 

I also seem to remember someone saying that the string spacing on these is tighter than standard. Is that true? I can't remember which thread that was in.


----------



## StevenC

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I can't decide if I want one or not. They're a fairly cool body shape, but other than that there's nothing that really makes me want to get one.
> 
> I also seem to remember someone saying that the string spacing on these is tighter than standard. Is that true? I can't remember which thread that was in.


Yes, the string spacing is tighter than on most 8 strings.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

hayfever said:


> B stock larada legions* on sale today at 6pm pst. Email specifically says cosmetic defects only so I’m curious to see how they resolved all the nut issues



LOL probably just the ones that people returned because they had issues.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

t-minus 2 weeks until you see them on Reverb at 3k


----------



## SpaceDock

Lasted less than 3 minutes except for the lefties. Hope those cosmetic defects aren’t too bad.


----------



## spudmunkey

SpaceDock said:


> Lasted less than 3 minutes except for the lefties. Hope those cosmetic defects aren’t too bad.



And hope the definition of "cosmetic" isn't too loose.


----------



## Hollowway

spudmunkey said:


> And hope the definition of "cosmetic" isn't too loose.



I find it interesting that they didn't list what the defect was. That made me not want to gamble on one.


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> I find it interesting that they didn't list what the defect was. That made me not want to gamble on one.



Yeah, or even a list of what the specific defects include, even if it's not instrument specific. "May include dents in the finish less than 1/4", etc"


----------



## Hollowway

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> t-minus 2 weeks until you see them on Reverb at 3k


Yep. I can see it now….

“MINT Larada. Reverb won’t let me list this as new, but I’ve literally only taken it out of the case to check it. But I CAN tell you that it shits all over every other guitar I’ve played. It was listed as a B stock, but I honestly think that was a mistake, because this thing shreds. Only selling because I realized I just don’t get along with [x] strings. This is a LIMITED release, so I will not be entertaining lowball offers.”


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Hollowway said:


> Yep. I can see it now….
> 
> “MINT Larada. Reverb won’t let me list this as new, but I’ve literally only taken it out of the case to check it. But I CAN tell you that it shits all over every other guitar I’ve played. It was listed as a B stock, but I honestly think that was a mistake, because this thing shreds. Only selling because I realized I just don’t get along with [x] strings. This is a LIMITED release, so I will not be entertaining lowball offers.”




"I bought this without asking my wife and she is making me sell. Only played 1 hour and it is awesome. So much better than anything on the market."

My experience with Legions is they play like a nice korea schecter. Not any better or worse.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Hollowway said:


> I find it interesting that they didn't list what the defect was. That made me not want to gamble on one.



Yeah, I was surprised by that as well. Solar list specific blemishes and provide pictures of them. Looks like a lot of people decided to gamble anyways.


----------



## I play music

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> My experience with Legions is they play like a nice korea schecter.


Of course, that's what they are ..


----------



## Lordcephid

What string gauges do you guys use for your Larada 8 strings? 

I’ve been trying to use an Elixir 74 for my 8 but it doesn’t seem to fit the post


----------



## Cockandballs

Only D’addario worked for me. Ernie Ball and Horizon has the same problem.


----------



## I play music

Lordcephid said:


> I’ve been trying to use an Elixir 74 for my 8 but it doesn’t seem to fit the post


drill


----------



## gunshow86de

I play music said:


> drill



It's actually pretty easy to remove the wrap/wind and only put the string core through the tuner. You don't have to "ruin" the tuner that way and it holds tuning just as well.


----------



## I play music

gunshow86de said:


> It's actually pretty easy to remove the wrap/wind and only put the string core through the tuner. You don't have to "ruin" the tuner that way and it holds tuning just as well.


how would that "ruin" the tuner? you're fixing it
putting a tuner on an 8 string that can't take a 74 string is a design flaw IMO


----------



## CanserDYI

I play music said:


> how would that "ruin" the tuner? you're fixing it
> putting a tuner on an 8 string that can't take a 74 string is a design flaw IMO


I wouldnt say you're fixing it per se, but yeah you're right, an 8 string guitar that can't take a 74 is a design flaw, super oversight. Aren't most 8 string guitar sets coming with a 74 as it is?


----------



## I play music

CanserDYI said:


> I wouldnt say you're fixing it per se, but yeah you're right, an 8 string guitar that can't take a 74 is a design flaw, super oversight. Aren't most 8 string guitar sets coming with a 74 as it is?


74 is the most common I think yes and iirc even what Tosin himself uses 
so that his guitars are not made for that is a bit lame tbh but you can fix that with a drill


----------



## MaxOfMetal

gunshow86de said:


> It's actually pretty easy to remove the wrap/wind and only put the string core through the tuner. You don't have to "ruin" the tuner that way and it holds tuning just as well.



This. It takes like a minute. 

I don't even check tuner hole size, I've always done it this way. Looks cleaner too, if you don't butcher it.


----------



## Cockandballs

Or just use D’addario strings, it works without all of this guitar renovation work, and they make strings for most of the other brands anyway.


----------



## Hollowway

gunshow86de said:


> It's actually pretty easy to remove the wrap/wind and only put the string core through the tuner. You don't have to "ruin" the tuner that way and it holds tuning just as well.


Yeah, but you do have to be careful on strings with more than one winding. I’ve had the outer winding come loose from the unwinding and “rattle” around on the inner winding. That was an expensive lesson.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> This. It takes like a minute.


so does drilling the tuner and you only have to do it once vs every string change


----------



## Cockandballs

Not sure about you I'm selling my Larada for the Majesty 8, ticks every box and effectively the same price as my Larada. Looks spectacular with superb specs.


----------



## hayfever

i ordered the b-stock overcast legion 8 from last week's drop, just received today. since there was some speculation on what exactly the b-stock issues would be since they weren't described with the listing i wanted to report

issues i found looking as closely as possible:
1/8th inch chip on the neck wood near nut bottom side, minor markings on nut/where fretboard meets neck, nut otherwise seems seated fine





the edge where the paint meets the wood on the headstock isn't _perfect _with one small marking









a couple of pin size black specs in the paint on the back of the body





when looking back it seems like this one had less issues than what some people received on their 1sts and I consider all of this to be typical of a b-stock guitar. these are nothing for me to personally fuss at and i'm glad to own a larada without having to pay resale prices. just wanted to share for those potentially considering a b-stock in the future.


----------



## Dayn

I guess that's not bad for a B-stock.

But the idea of not disclosing those things is beyond the pale for me. Not to mention what a minefield for them it is if they sold to an Australian with our consumer law...


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Dayn My thoughts exactly. In Canada it also could cause returns.



hayfever said:


> i ordered the b-stock overcast legion 8 from last week's drop, just received today. since there was some speculation on what exactly the b-stock issues would be since they weren't described with the listing i wanted to report
> 
> issues i found looking as closely as possible:
> 1/8th inch chip on the neck wood near nut bottom side, minor markings on nut/where fretboard meets neck, nut otherwise seems seated fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the edge where the paint meets the wood on the headstock isn't _perfect _with one small marking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a couple of pin size black specs in the paint on the back of the body
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when looking back it seems like this one had less issues than what some people received on their 1sts and I consider all of this to be typical of a b-stock guitar. these are nothing for me to personally fuss at and i'm glad to own a larada without having to pay resale prices. just wanted to share for those potentially considering a b-stock in the future.



What was the price decrease compared to regular listing price?


----------



## StevenC

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> @Dayn My thoughts exactly. In Canada it also could cause returns.
> 
> 
> 
> What was the price decrease compared to regular listing price?


B stock Charcoal Burl was $1529 and $1614 for 7 and 8, every other colour was $1614 and $1699 for 7 and 8.

Originally Charcoal Burl was $1799 and $1899 for 7 and 8, and every other colour was $1999 for 7 and 8.

So this was a $1699 B stock and normally $1999 (I think).


----------



## hayfever

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> What was the price decrease compared to regular listing price?





StevenC said:


> So this was a $1699 B stock and normally $1999 (I think).



correct, +85 for shipping. no tax


----------



## bjjman

hayfever said:


> i ordered the b-stock overcast legion 8 from last week's drop, just received today. since there was some speculation on what exactly the b-stock issues would be since they weren't described with the listing i wanted to report



I nabbed an 8 string one as well, in charcoal burl. It has a very small area, about 4mm x 1.5 mm on the tip of the horn that has the brown paint from the top where it should be black. It's right where the light naturally reflects, so hard to see. I tried to take a photo to share but it's just about impossible to capture in a photograph. There are also some quite minor tooling marks around the lowest tuner. Very happy with how it turned out.

I'm throwing around the idea of replacing my existing 7 with a Larada. With each release, does the charcoal burl stay and they just do some new limited colours?


----------



## narad

Aussie space tele up on Reverb. If the owner is a forum member, hit me up. It's a bit too much at that price but maybe off Reverb would be alright.


----------



## Thrav

About to snatch a Larada legion 8 charcoal burl while I debate what I want the specs of a skerv shoggie should be. 

Really hoping there’s no fret level or nut issue .


----------



## Jackillin

Has anyone got a Larada Legion 8 (Sage) ?
How is it? 
Might try grab one next round...if I ever get lucky enough... I'm hopeful eh....


----------



## Thrav

Jackillin said:


> Has anyone got a Larada Legion 8 (Sage) ?
> How is it?
> Might try grab one next round...if I ever get lucky enough... I'm hopeful eh....




Ik someone who is selling one soon. Keep a look out on reverb.


Side note. Snipped this







Cosmetically very little to complain about. Small amount of filler coming out under the nut, a small neck pocket gap, little wear on the back from the previous owners strap it looks like.

Some good things. I have to say, I personally do enjoy these Abasi sig fishman pups. Was not expecting that. The upper fret acces from the beveling in the back should be a standard for bolt ons.



What I don’t like. Obviously a lot of this is personal preference. The design is suppose to be more ergonomical but the only reason I can see that being true is just from the bottom body cut away. Other than that, it’s actually a pretty big (wide) guitar and feels like a hassle to play on. It’s light-ish but when the guitar is just substantially bigger all around, that pro goes out the window for me. The pick up selector is practically horizontal, no idea why you’d have it like that instead of angled. The volume knob is to close to the bridge, and been having issues turning it when I’m doing sweep patterns. There’s no neck dive but it sits horizontal, and I personally like my neck angled a bit when I play.


The neck. Now, this is a tricky thing to comment on due to me being a Strandberg guy. If I never experienced the endurneck, I’d probably like this neck. It’s thin as hell, it’s like a U shape but with some pretty defined shoulders to it, and the upper fret access is amazing… but as I put down my Abasi and picked up my strand, I laughed out loud of how much more comfortable it is to play compared to the Abasi.

I’m going to give it more time before/if I sell it. I’m likely just going to wait for Strandberg to release a neck through or have a local custom shop I know of make me something with the endurneck.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thrav said:


> Ik someone who is selling one soon. Keep a look out on reverb.
> 
> 
> Side note. Snipped this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cosmetically very little to complain about. Small amount of filler coming out under the nut, a small neck pocket gap, little wear on the back from the previous owners strap it looks like.
> 
> Some good things. I have to say, I personally do enjoy these Abasi sig fishman pups. Was not expecting that. The upper fret acces from the beveling in the back should be a standard for bolt ons.
> 
> 
> 
> What I don’t like. Obviously a lot of this is personal preference. The design is suppose to be more ergonomical but the only reason I can see that being true is just from the bottom body cut away. Other than that, it’s actually a pretty big (wide) guitar and feels like a hassle to play on. It’s light-ish but when the guitar is just substantially bigger all around, that pro goes out the window for me. The pick up selector is practically horizontal, no idea why you’d have it like that instead of angled. The volume knob is to close to the bridge, and been having issues turning it when I’m doing sweep patterns. There’s no neck dive but it sits horizontal, and I personally like my neck angled a bit when I play.
> 
> 
> The neck. Now, this is a tricky thing to comment on due to me being a Strandberg guy. If I never experienced the endurneck, I’d probably like this neck. It’s thin as hell, it’s like a U shape but with some pretty defined shoulders to it, and the upper fret access is amazing… but as I put down my Abasi and picked up my strand, I laughed out loud of how much more comfortable it is to play compared to the Abasi.
> 
> I’m going to give it more time before/if I sell it. I’m likely just going to wait for Strandberg to release a neck through or have a local custom shop I know of make me something with the endurneck.



Thanks for the writeup.

I had the opposite conclusion comparing the Endureneck to the J Larada ovoid neck. I guess the Legion neck is very different from the J neck.


----------



## CW7

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Thanks for the writeup.
> 
> I had the opposite conclusion comparing the Endureneck to the J Larada ovoid neck. I guess the Legion neck is very different from the J neck.



the legion neck is definitely chunkier than the J. My only real gripe with my legion was that- I’m used to the J7/J8 profile and weight, and the legion was heavier and slightly beefier by comparison. Not uncomfortably so, but it was noticeable and that’s what led me to sell the legion and keep the J.


----------



## Thrav

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Thanks for the writeup.
> 
> I had the opposite conclusion comparing the Endureneck to the J Larada ovoid neck. I guess the Legion neck is very different from the J neck.



idk man I guess I’m just sold on the endurneck. I do wish it was slightly thinner like the singularity. I also just did not like how bulky it is. 

I’m a huge hypocrite though, I use to not understand why people loved headless so much and now I’m a die hard for them. Doesn’t get any more comfortable and optimal for me than the Strandberg (or headless guitars in general but again I love the endurneck) 



CW7 said:


> the legion neck is definitely chunkier than the J. My only real gripe with my legion was that- I’m used to the J7/J8 profile and weight, and the legion was heavier and slightly beefier by comparison. Not uncomfortably so, but it was noticeable and that’s what led me to sell the legion and keep the J.



That’s interesting to hear. I almost snatched a J but there just a tad to expensive IMO for what you’re getting. I wouldn’t completely dismiss getting one but the legion hasn’t convinced me I’m an Abasi guy. 

Besides the pickups though. I love them so far. I can get some good jazz tones out of it which was what I was hoping for.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thrav said:


> idk man I guess I’m just sold on the endurneck. I do wish it was slightly thinner like the singularity. I also just did not like how bulky it is.
> 
> I’m a huge hypocrite though, I use to not understand why people loved headless so much and now I’m a die hard for them. Doesn’t get any more comfortable and optimal for me than the Strandberg (or headless guitars in general but again I love the endurneck)
> 
> 
> 
> That’s interesting to hear. I almost snatched a J but there just a tad to expensive IMO for what you’re getting. I wouldn’t completely dismiss getting one but the legion hasn’t convinced me I’m an Abasi guy.
> 
> Besides the pickups though. I love them so far. I can get some good jazz tones out of it which was what I was hoping for.



I totally understand that. For me, the Endureneck not being round was annoying, i.e. having my thumb restricted to move on a plane. The J neck is kind of a rounded slim endureneck, which I love. I’m curious to try out the new Singularity to see how Per’s rounded endureneck compares.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

FYI, apparently there's a drop today (Sunday Oct. 10).


----------



## porchy

Did they give details? Sounded like they were supposed to send an email out last evening. Checked this morning (ET) and see nothing.


----------



## Thrav

Follow Abasi concepts insta. They announced Friday they’ll be a drop today and a newsletter is going to be sent out this morning.


HungryGuitarStudent said:


> FYI, apparently there's a drop today (Sunday Oct. 10).





porchy said:


> Did they give details? Sounded like they were supposed to send an email out last evening. Checked this morning (ET) and see nothing.


----------



## porchy

Also, I’ve been skimming around to understand the Master vs. the J. Sounds like the big differences are asymmetrical neck, bolt-on, and basswood body (lighter weight?) for the J. The J is also more expensive, right?

Totally get beggars can’t be choosers, so whatever I can potentially purchase, I will… but if given the option, is the J the preferred model to the Master in terms of better quality/specs?

Thanks, guys.


----------



## Thrav

porchy said:


> Also, I’ve been skimming around to understand the Master vs. the J. Sounds like the big differences are asymmetrical neck, bolt-on, and basswood body (lighter weight?) for the J. The J is also more expensive, right?
> 
> Totally get beggars can’t be choosers, so whatever I can potentially purchase, I will… but if given the option, is the J the preferred model to the Master in terms of better quality/specs?
> 
> Thanks, guys.



Master is more expensive and has the higher quality specs. Tbh, the J is a little over priced and would either just get a legion or a master.


----------



## porchy

Hah. Thank you for setting me straight on it. Alright, Master it is, if possible.


----------



## Hollowway

They’re dropping at 7pm PST. Let the carnage begin! I won’t be participating, because they priced me out a couple of releases ago. I’ll wait until the market cools and maybe try one used. But I’ll be interested to see if there are any cool new finishes.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Gonna try to snag that black quilt 6


----------



## porchy

For all the veterans out there, do they all sell out in like 60 seconds, or do you have a minute or two to peruse the finishes? It sounds pretty intense. That yellow 8 looks pretty cool. Does that mean there is one of them, or do they at least have a few of the same model?

reminds me of mycookiedealer on Instagram, whose cookies you had to order in a minute before they sold out… only about 100x more expensive and possibly less delicious.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

For the J's, they sometimes have multiples in one finish. But for the master stuff its one-offs as far as I can tell. Most drops you have seconds to grab one. Less desirable pieces last anywhere from a minute to a day at most.


----------



## porchy

Thanks. That’s awful. Haha.


----------



## Hollowway

What are these USA models priced these days? $3600?


----------



## bjjman

Hollowway said:


> What are these USA models priced these days? $3600?


Under FAQ on their site they say 'General ranges for US models and J Larada models range from $3,299 - $3,999'. 

I'm not looking for one in this drop. _Maybe _when they have new Legion 7s, not sure. I'll observe this one from a distance. Seems nerve wracking tying to see what's there, how much it is and decide whether to buy in seconds. 

Good luck in snagging the quilt you want @TheInvisibleHand, that one looks very cool.


----------



## Hollowway

bjjman said:


> Under FAQ on their site they say 'General ranges for US models and J Larada models range from $3,299 - $3,999'.
> 
> I'm not looking for one in this drop. _Maybe _when they have new Legion 7s, not sure. I'll observe this one from a distance. Seems nerve wracking tying to see what's there, how much it is and decide whether to buy in seconds.
> 
> Good luck in snagging the quilt you want @TheInvisibleHand, that one looks very cool.


Where are you guys seeing the quilted one? I didn’t see that.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Hollowway said:


> Where are you guys seeing the quilted one? I didn’t see that.



was the one in the newsletter and on their social media.


----------



## Hollowway

Huh. I only see the 4 from FB and insta.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Hollowway said:


> Huh. I only see the 4 from FB and insta.


its in their IG story


----------



## Hollowway

TheInvisibleHand said:


> its in their IG story


Oh man, that IS nice. Probably the best Abasi I’ve seen. Hope you get it!


----------



## thorgan

Did anyone get anything from this? I was checking and only saw like a few of the solid colored masters series' in stock, is the rest of the drop coming later? Seems like the few masters series and a handful of J's all sold out in like under 10 minutes, was kinda looking forward to investigating those carbon fiber flamed top ones that were on the instagram story but didn't see them go up

Edit: they trickled in slowly, would be pretty keen on an 8 in that flame burst spec, hopefully they've got some good ones in the 8 batch scheduled for December, but ngl the way these drops happen kinda kills some of my buzz


----------



## porchy

Okay... how did that just work? Guitars started trickling onto the site. One available. Refresh. Three different ones. Refresh. Two more. I'm so confused.

Snagged the Chartreuse 8 after I realized it's only Js today and not masters. I hope the color is as wild as it looks in the photo. Thanks for your help, guys.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

snagged the black carbon quilt 6


----------



## jbaxter

TheInvisibleHand said:


> snagged the black carbon quilt 6


it stayed up longer than i expected tbh. Normally when i tune in, i see things in stock, i F5, and its all gone lol.


----------



## Lordcephid

TheInvisibleHand said:


> snagged the black carbon quilt 6



how much was the carbon quilt didn't get to see the price


----------



## jbaxter

Lordcephid said:


> how much was the carbon quilt didn't get to see the price


3,799


----------



## NCeuRign

TheInvisibleHand said:


> snagged the black carbon quilt 6



Goddamn you . I kept refreshing expecting new things to appear at the front of the list but there were Master 8s, then a bunch of Js and suddenly the black quilt appeared sold way down low on my list. That was kind of the one I wanted. Instead I got the brown one that was in the IG story with it. I think. Will have to go back now and see what I just bought.


----------



## bjjman

porchy said:


> Okay... how did that just work? Guitars started trickling onto the site. One available. Refresh. Three different ones. Refresh. Two more. I'm so confused.
> 
> Snagged the Chartreuse 8 after I realized it's only Js today and not masters. I hope the color is as wild as it looks in the photo. Thanks for your help, guys.


I've not seen a bigger drop like this before but this was a bit of a $#ithow, I thought. 10 mins in and stuff still not up on site. At least everything could come up at once so people can make informed choices. I hope it's an awesome axe and you're happy with it. Mine's just a Legion but I love my 8.



TheInvisibleHand said:


> snagged the black carbon quilt 6


Glad you managed to get it!


----------



## NCeuRign

Very mildly disappointed that my flame burst has nickel frets. I thought they would all have stainless. Minor detail though.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> snagged the black carbon quilt 6



Crazy. I was getting the wife's approval before I clicked order and I lost it. Really wanted a Space T but only one dropped unfortunately.

25 guitars in total today


----------



## NCeuRign

You'll never get one if you have to ask permission or any other delays during the buying process unfortunately. Both mine have been anxiety inducing.


----------



## porchy

bjjman said:


> I've not seen a bigger drop like this before but this was a bit of a $#ithow, I thought. 10 mins in and stuff still not up on site. At least everything could come up at once so people can make informed choices. I hope it's an awesome axe and you're happy with it. Mine's just a Legion but I love my 8.
> 
> 
> Glad you managed to get it!



Thanks, man. I'm excited for it! Completely agree that there is 0 time for informed choices. In all honesty, I had planned for a PVRP that they posted somewhat recently only to find that there were 0 purple guitars. Definitely not a smooth rollout. Maybe they can find a better web developer/shop manager to clear all of the dead inventory from the top of the page.

That said, here we all are talking about it. Any publicity is good publicity.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

NCeuRign said:


> You'll never get one if you have to ask permission or any other delays during the buying process unfortunately. Both mine have been anxiety inducing.


Oh absolutely. Totally my mistake. I just bought a brand new Mayones Regius so I didn't want to get thrown out of the house buy picking up one of these.


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> snagged the black carbon quilt 6


Good on ya. I had it loaded up but waited for one they didn’t post. (Which kinda pisses me off but at least I know someone got it that I know ).


----------



## Hollowway

TheInvisibleHand said:


> snagged the black carbon quilt 6


Nice! I’m glad you got that. I know these things disappear quickly. What did it cost?

And @porchy what was yours priced? I’m trying to get a feel for whether I should get one in the future or not.


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> snagged the black carbon quilt 6


To be clear- I am pissed Abasi, not you lol It’s a bit off putting they posted a guitar on IG as a drop guitar (an 8 i wanted) and they never listed it . I can only assume someone on the inside was allowed to buy it . 
Please update when the carbon arrives! And if you get bored with it, I’ve now got cash burning a hole in my pocket since I didn’t get my 8


----------



## Jackillin

I missed out again, moving on. Seems an Abasi 8 string is impossible to get. So I guess I'm going to either get a raw Aristides or a custom Balaguer 8. Same as the guy ☝ Got cash burning a hole in my pocket.


----------



## CW7

Jackillin said:


> I missed out again, moving on. Seems an Abasi 8 string is impossible to get. So I guess I'm going to either get a raw Aristides or a custom Balaguer 8. Same as the guy ☝ Got cash burning a hole in my pocket.


You will NOT be disappointed with an Aristides . Probably my all time favorite semi custom guitar builder , at any price point. You won’t find a more consistently made instrument in my opinion. Best of luck!


----------



## Hollowway

Jackillin said:


> I missed out again, moving on. Seems an Abasi 8 string is impossible to get. So I guess I'm going to either get a raw Aristides or a custom Balaguer 8. Same as the guy ☝ Got cash burning a hole in my pocket.


As the owner of a Balaguer 8 string and an Aristides 8 string, you will be exceptionally happy with either choice. The Aristides is extremely lightweight (talking specifically about the headless) if that's your thing. The Balaguer I have is the Tartarus, so it's a big boi. But they're both made crazy well.


----------



## BradleyAllan

So I was hoping for a lighter colored, regular Birdseye maple fretboard with gold hardware. Had the bell green / gold in the cart with one click left to finalize the purchase but decided last minute not to grab it. I actually already have a Master Series 8 that’s getting an official refinish to Shell pink from Selenite with Pat Wilkins who does some of the finishing work for Abasi. Just got the headstock decal / logo from Abasi and it’s almost done. I’ve been waiting for this drop before putting the order in for my shell pink Aristides h/07r tonight which I just did. Congrats to everyone who picked one up! They’re super dope guitars! LOVE my Master Series 8!


----------



## NCeuRign

One the same as mine has become available on the site


----------



## Hollowway

NCeuRign said:


> One the same as mine has become available on the site


Weird. That’s a late entry!


----------



## NCeuRign

Maybe they were sweeping up after the day's carnage and found it behind the couch.

It caused me a moment of panic to see if my order had been cancelled. I just got a shipping notification right now though.


----------



## NCeuRign

Another one appeared - black J8 

Edit - gone already


----------



## Jackillin

Hollowway said:


> As the owner of a Balaguer 8 string and an Aristides 8 string, you will be exceptionally happy with either choice. The Aristides is extremely lightweight (talking specifically about the headless) if that's your thing. The Balaguer I have is the Tartarus, so it's a big boi. But they're both made crazy well.



Interesting. Aristides has been at the top of my list for a while. I think I'd go for a raw with reg headstock but the only think that's been holding me back is the scale length. I'm used to 25.5-27 and I think the Aristides is longer. I've got fairly small hands. I can manage with 27 on the low end but not sure about more than that.... although the 28 would give better tension. It's something I've had on my my mind for a while. What's Ur thoughts on scale length? I've never had the opportunity to try 28


----------



## Jackillin

Hollowway said:


> As the owner of a Balaguer 8 string and an Aristides 8 string, you will be exceptionally happy with either choice. The Aristides is extremely lightweight (talking specifically about the headless) if that's your thing. The Balaguer I have is the Tartarus, so it's a big boi. But they're both made crazy well.


I've been playing with a multi-scale Tartarus and Diablo and a few others on the Balaguer custom builder site. How r their pickups by the way?


----------



## porchy

Hollowway said:


> Nice! I’m glad you got that. I know these things disappear quickly. What did it cost?
> 
> And @porchy what was yours priced? I’m trying to get a feel for whether I should get one in the future or not.



3.4K. so a bit cheaper than masters. I was going to hold out for one (the site says December), but from the comments here, it sounds like you should take what you can get. People also seem to have nice things to say about the J, and the color is wild, so I’m not disappointed.

For how odd the site layout was, I have to give them credit for actual operations. I already received shipping a notification.

Will keep you guys posted on it when I receive it!


----------



## Lordcephid

CW7 said:


> To be clear- I am pissed Abasi, not you lol It’s a bit off putting they posted a guitar on IG as a drop guitar (an 8 i wanted) and they never listed it . I can only assume someone on the inside was allowed to buy it .
> Please update when the carbon arrives! And if you get bored with it, I’ve now got cash burning a hole in my pocket since I didn’t get my 8



which 8 were you looking for?


----------



## StevenC

They should definitely stop releasing these at 3am so I have a chance to miss out on buying one.


----------



## CW7

Lordcephid said:


> which 8 were you looking for?


It was a yellow J8 shown on IG . Turns out it was never for sale.


----------



## StevenC

CW7 said:


> It was a yellow J8 shown on IG . Turns out it was never for sale.


Oh, that was one I was trying to stay up to buy too. At least I didn't miss out on it.

I'm hoping to get a Sage/maple to put gold hardware on like his Ibanez, or a pink one. But yellow would do if not because I have enough blue guitars.


----------



## porchy

CW7 said:


> It was a yellow J8 shown on IG . Turns out it was never for sale.



The chartreuse (yellow) 8? It was for sale. I saw that one and a sage 8 listed when I loaded the site. That’s the one I snagged because I panicked with the colors. Part of me wishes I got the sage once I realized it was sparkly.

that said, I have 0 confirmation of what I actually bought. So I’m either getting a yellow 8 later this week or a black 6 or something. I won’t believe it until it arrives…


----------



## NCeuRign

I got an immediate email from Abasi Concepts LLC and since then a shipping email with UPS tracking details.


----------



## CW7

porchy said:


> The chartreuse (yellow) 8? It was for sale. I saw that one and a sage 8 listed when I loaded the site. That’s the one I snagged because I panicked with the colors. Part of me wishes I got the sage once I realized it was sparkly.
> 
> that said, I have 0 confirmation of what I actually bought. So I’m either getting a yellow 8 later this week or a black 6 or something. I won’t believe it until it arrives…


Nope . I owned a chartreuse. This was a yellow J8. And wasn’t for sale at any point


----------



## Lordcephid

CW7 said:


> It was a yellow J8 shown on IG . Turns out it was never for sale.



oh yeah, that's true. I thought it was the recent Master series Artura Green, forgot that that one had white pickups instead. but definitely does seem that there might be inside trading or him giving it to other artists lol... been seeing a lot going around as of late - even Tomo getting that Spartan 6


----------



## porchy

CW7 said:


> Nope . I owned a chartreuse. This was a yellow J8. And wasn’t for sale at any point


Ah, got it. Yeah I see what you’re talking about now. The white pickups.

if they did sell on the side, can you blame them? They have a lot of different artists using their stuff — my two favorites so far were Gary Clark and Justus West. If other artists wanted them, it’s worth it for advertising alone.

I gotta ask… by “owned” does that mean you willingly parted with it? Am I gonna hate the chartreuse color?


----------



## CW7

porchy said:


> Ah, got it. Yeah I see what you’re talking about now. The white pickups.
> 
> if they did sell on the side, can you blame them? They have a lot of different artists using their stuff — my two favorites so far were Gary Clark and Justus West. If other artists wanted them, it’s worth it for advertising alone.
> 
> I gotta ask… by “owned” does that mean you willingly parted with it? Am I gonna hate the chartreuse color?


It’s not that - I have word that they messed up. That post wasn’t supposed to be a “preview”. Just a post for hype. They later edited the post during the drop and removed the verbiage that said “preview”. So case solved. Just still a little bummed I passed on like 4 others. I’m not gonna dwell. I just landed one of the Majesty’s last week and haven’t even plugged it in. Maybe I don’t NEED another Abasi right now.


----------



## porchy

CW7 said:


> It’s not that - I have word that they messed up. That post wasn’t supposed to be a “preview”. Just a post for hype. They later edited the post during the drop and removed the verbiage that said “preview”. So case solved. Just still a little bummed I passed on like 4 others. I’m not gonna dwell. I just landed one of the Majesty’s last week and haven’t even plugged it in. Maybe I don’t NEED another Abasi right now.



can’t wait til this all goes meta and they release a red “Supreme”-branded larada.


----------



## Cockandballs

Legions live.


----------



## Cockandballs

Loved the staggered drop. Managed to actually get two.


----------



## Hollowway

Cockandballs said:


> Loved the staggered drop. Managed to actually get two.


One for each ball?


----------



## Thrav

Man I really want a red one instead of my Charcoal Burst one. 

Need to find someone that would be willing to trade lol


----------



## Cockandballs

Hollowway said:


> One for each ball?


obviously. I just really like them.


----------



## klaim

Most of the models except the crimsons are still being sold, that's cool. Also now we have a way to pay in multiple times, which would make more sense for me.
It's the first time I can consider buying one.
Unfortunately, the multi-payment is only available in the US. 

Correction: it's also available through paypal... now I need to seriously decide if I want one XD


----------



## Cockandballs

crimson is pretty ugly


----------



## Thrav

Cockandballs said:


> crimson is pretty ugly



Speak for yourself, I love it lol. I’m considering selling mine real quick while they’re still up.

EDIT: phones messing up my bad for the double post


----------



## Thrav

Speak for yourself, I love it lol. I’m considering selling mine real quick while they’re still up and try to snatch one.


----------



## klaim

I would love a crimson one too. 

Crimson with gold linings would be fricking overload of awesomeness.


----------



## Thrav

klaim said:


> I would love a crimson one too.
> 
> Crimson with gold linings would be fricking overload of awesomeness.




Ooff, the gold is where I leave you brother. I personally despise gold on a guitar, looks gimmicky to me.


----------



## brain2me2

I’m sure this has been discussed a hundred times, but I’m torn between a Larada 8 or and a 080. Which one would you go for, price difference is not and issue.

I just want to get an 8 string that feels and sounds the best. 

Thanks


----------



## Thrav

brain2me2 said:


> I’m sure this has been discussed a hundred times, but I’m torn between a Larada 8 or and a 080. Which one would you go for, price difference is not and issue.
> 
> I just want to get an 8 string that feels and sounds the best.
> 
> Thanks



Hands down 080, not even close.


----------



## klaim

Thrav said:


> Ooff, the gold is where I leave you brother. I personally despise gold on a guitar, looks gimmicky to me.


Ah yes I wasnt thinking about the history of guitar int hat domain, I'm not a fan of old ways to do it indeed. I was thinking just a few lines on the body, I prefer black mechanics for example. But anyway yeah it's mostly taste haha, I also like deep green with gold lines, and purple with gold lines, and black with gold lines although that one would be even more gimicky I think XD


----------



## RiksRiks

klaim said:


> Most of the models except the crimsons are still being sold, that's cool. *Also now we have a way to pay in multiple times, which would make more sense for me.*
> It's the first time I can consider buying one.
> Unfortunately, the multi-payment is only available in the US.
> 
> Correction: *it's also available through paypal*... now I need to seriously decide if I want one XD



I wonder if they will keep this option for the Master and J series or they will only offer it for the Legions


----------



## xzacx

I'm really tempted to grab a black 8 just because I dig the design and there aren't too many 8 options with 25.5" on the treble side, but I'm worried I'll hate the tight string spacing.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Oh cool. The 2 legions I had were decent but just played like overpriced Schecters.


----------



## gunshow86de

Paying $2k to preorder MIK guitars.


----------



## Jonathan20022

gunshow86de said:


> Paying $2k to preorder MIK guitars.



Boden OS man, we crossed that barrier a LONG time ago.

I still think it's bonkers to buy anything from the same factory that pumps out PRS SE/Schecter Imports/Chapmans for 2 - 3x the price just because of the name of the brand or a specific design.

It's cool to see a design widely available, but seeing manufacturers close off their high end offerings and replace it with cheaper labor for the price of what would have equivalently been considered a "high end" guitar price point is extremely saddening.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

What are the improved features they mention for this new batch of Legions?


----------



## BigViolin

"Enhanced neck heaviness"


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

BigViolin said:


> "Enhanced neck heaviness"



What does that mean?


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> snagged the black carbon quilt 6


Looks like it came through today + a headless Aristides? Jeez man. Congrats


----------



## BigViolin

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> What does that mean?



It means they are fuck-all neck heavy and I like sarcasm.


----------



## Hollowway

BigViolin said:


> It means they are fuck-all neck heavy and I like sarcasm.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Anyone buy a new Legion? Curious about the build quality.



BigViolin said:


> It means they are fuck-all neck heavy and I like sarcasm.



Ok, congrats.


----------



## bassisace

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Anyone buy a new Legion? Curious about the build quality



I think they're made in the same place so build quality is probably the same as before. They might have improved QC before shipping.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

rohanranjan said:


> Looks like it came through today + a headless Aristides? Jeez man. Congrats



That was a different person. I guess they made two of the carbon 6s.


----------



## BigViolin

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Ok, congrats.



Hey thanks! I remember seeing my first shit post on the innerwebs too.

You knew exactly what I meant.

I hope your J isn't as neck heavy as the Legion I received. It's one thing when a guitar is a little neck heavy on a strap or right leg but when you need to prop the neck up in classical...pretty bad. The only actual ergonomic feature on the guitar is the Strandberg half of the body...in classical position. 

What you have posted about your J keeps me interested in the line, and I'm glad that neck worked out for you. I don't think a Legion would be anywhere close to your J.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

BigViolin said:


> Hey thanks! I remember seeing my first shit post on the innerwebs too.
> 
> You knew exactly what I meant



If you say so, you seem to know better than me. Anyhow…



BigViolin said:


> I hope your J isn't as neck heavy as the Legion I received. It's one thing when a guitar is a little neck heavy on a strap or right leg but when you need to prop the neck up in classical...pretty bad. The only actual ergonomic feature on the guitar is the Strandberg half of the body...in classical position.
> 
> What you have posted about your J keeps me interested in the line, and I'm glad that neck worked out for you. I don't think a Legion would be anywhere close to your J.



I only play my J in classical position and with a strap. I didn’t notice much neck heaviness tbh.

That being said, a friend of mine compared his J to mine and his was definitely neck heavy. Maybe there’s variability in the production line.

I passed on the Legions because of the QC problems, what you mention comforts me in my decision.

I hope eventually they get distributors so we can actually try (and inspect) the guitars before buying them.


----------



## bassisace

BigViolin said:


> Hey thanks! I remember seeing my first shit post on the innerwebs too.
> 
> You knew exactly what I meant.
> 
> I hope your J isn't as neck heavy as the Legion I received. It's one thing when a guitar is a little neck heavy on a strap or right leg but when you need to prop the neck up in classical...pretty bad. The only actual ergonomic feature on the guitar is the Strandberg half of the body...in classical position.
> 
> What you have posted about your J keeps me interested in the line, and I'm glad that neck worked out for you. I don't think a Legion would be anywhere close to your J.



*Deleted my negative comment towards @BigViolin . Sorry, had a shit day.*

I tried a used Legion a while ago and it was neck heavy. @TheInvisibleHand Did you have a similar experience with your Laradas and Spartan?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@bassisace The back and forth is pointless. I asked an honest question. Shitposting is entertaining, but I don't have the time, energy or skill to partake. I'm just a clueless older guy who likes guitars.

I didn't find the Spartan I tried to be neck heavy, but I decided to return it after 3-4 hours of play (nice instrument, didn't gel with me), so take that with a grain of salt.


----------



## BigViolin

Sorry guys, can we make up? 

I really wanted to like the Legion. And @HungryGuitarStudent I'm probably older and cluelesser than you.  ...and you play better.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

BigViolin said:


> Sorry guys, can we make up?
> 
> I really wanted to like the Legion. And @HungryGuitarStudent I'm probably older and cluelesser than you.  ...and you play better.



Nothing to make up man, it’s always been good  Thanks for the compliment; I still got lots to improve/learn.


----------



## BlackMastodon

My Djod. A polite, quick, and easy resolution to internet bickering? What has SSO become?! 

I still have nothing to contribute to this thread other than the fact that it made me more interested in Aristides.


----------



## porchy

Just got my J-Larada 8 today.

It’s a pretty cool guitar. Definitely makes a statement. Funny enough, I had the same thought on the neck: I naturally ended up playing classically, and it was fine. In “standard” position, def a noticeable neck dive. I’m not really concerned, though. I think that’s the fun part of different guitars. They force you to adjust and play differently, which freshens the experience.

One thing i don’t quite get is the neck. Where is my thumb supposed to go when I’m on the 24th fret?? Along the painted contour part? I am guessing there’s an ergonomic reason for the neck fusing into the body.

I’ve only played it for a few minutes, so I’m sure I’ll get the hang of it when I have more time. 

In all, though, very cool guitar. I’ll try to snap a pic or two when I have some time.


----------



## NCeuRign

My Master 8 is neck heavy. I attribute that to having a light body and having 33% more neck than my 6s. It doesn't bother me regardless.


----------



## NCeuRign

And now that my 6 has arrived I can say it's very well balanced and not at all neck heavy.


----------



## CW7

NCeuRign said:


> And now that my 6 has arrived I can say it's very well balanced and not at all neck heavy.


I second that. I got a 6 and don’t find it neck heavy at all. Very balanced imo


----------



## CW7

So- short first impressions here. For those not aware, I’ve been a bit of a Larada fan (hoarder at times?) since they launched. I’ve owned numerous iterations of the J series, USA Master series 8s, and an older custom 8 before they stopped taking custom orders. (And I had a legion, but that’s not really the topic of this convo).

The last drop I was watching for a specific 8 they showed on the IG preview, and so as they axes went live I passed on like 5 guitars, knowing I wanted to focus on the yellow J8. Well, turns out there was a mistake on the socials and that yellow J8 was never going to be available. (Which of course meant I scored a big fat zero this time around).

Among the guitars I passed on was the Carbon 6 quilt. A buddy of mine had said he wanted it, but wasn’t sure if he wanted to drop upwards of 4k on it. It went live and instead of buying it as I normally would have I screenshot it and sent it to him to make sure. Well of course by time he replied it was gone.

Fast forward couple days and it turns out a fellow member here snagged it but was considering selling it to snag something else, so I jumped at the chance to give it a go. (Thanks TheInvisibleHand). It arrived a few days ago but I’m in the middle of a move so I took me a couple days to really get a chance to go over it and get a proper first impression. Well, let me just say I am blown. Away. This one is a big step up from any of the others I’ve tried. For those that have followed my previous posts/previews, EVERY larada I’ve owned, including the 4k master series stuff, has needed some sort of work. Frets leveled, saddles filed, etc., to get the action and playability I desire. I’ve never been able to take one out of the case, drop the action and be good to go. That losing streak is over. This one is dialed in and it took me all of 5 minutes to slam it have it playing as good as any Aristides, Suhr, etc. that I own. (Which is something I’ve come to EXPECT when I drop almost 4k on a guitar. At that level, imo there is ZERO tolerance for high frets, misaligned neck angles and the like. This is getting into boutique custom territory. I did NOT expect to want or much less keep a Larada 6 in my lineup but this one honestly has keeper vibes from the outset. The carbon quilt is SICK in person. This Is the first time I’ve seen this stuff in person and it does not disappoint. Very 3D and the depth is just silly. Neck is thin, satin smooth and fast. It’s quite balanced in relation to some of the other neck heavy ones I’ve tried. Worth mentioning ; I had a Spartan I bought front he same member here, and he can also attest to the fact that this is a BIG step up in every department. I don’t know for certain of course, but my gut tells me this carbon 6 was NOT built by the same team that did the Spartan. It’s night and day. My ONLY “gripe”, if there is one, is nickel frets. BUT, I do Own a couple of keeper PRS which of course use those, so it’s not like I’m a nickel hater. I just got accustomed to these ultra modern guitars coming with stainless steel. It doesn’t really bother me per say, just something that took me aback when I saw the specs. 

Anyways, honeymoon gushing over. Here’s a quick pic. I’ll upload some more when I get moved into the new place. Haven’t plugged her in yet, but I have a vague idea of how she will sound since I’ve been a long time fan of the Fishman tosin’s for my more modern leaning axes. Will probably shoot some video as well since this one has to be seen in motion to truly be appreciated. That’s it for now. Color me impressed. If this is what the future of Larada build quality looks like, imo, it’s gonna be a bright one. Cheers. 













40B0B4D7-DA46-4F42-85F9-8A40B1B17D83



__ CW7
__ Oct 23, 2021


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Maybe that 6 was built by Acacia guitars.....





Which becomes further suspect when Acacia's matte "dip" finishes are almost identical to the Abasi spartan dips....


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Maybe that 6 was built by Acacia guitars.....
> 
> View attachment 99191
> 
> 
> 
> Which becomes further suspect when Acacia's matte "dip" finishes are almost identical to the Abasi spartan dips....


those carbon fiber quilt tops are all coming from the same manufacturer (john blazy).


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

KnightBrolaire said:


> those carbon fiber quilt tops are all coming from the same manufacturer (john blazy).



I know the chatoyant carbon is all the same guy, but the other finishes/ general aesthetic are also strikingly similar. More of just a general observation.


----------



## Cockandballs

All these guitars use a mix of finishers. Simms guitars does sone finishes, John blazy did the quilt and a few others hence the random build times once going back and forth from Grover or Japan. All of my guitars I bought on Abasi have been too notch (I’ve bought one almost every drop, never sold them and record regularly with them). It’s weird that the same three people on this forum constantly buy these, talk shit, buy them again, then talk shit again. Makes zero sense to me. I bought a J8 and the Master 6 flame top on the last drop. Both our top notch boutique build quality. Only difference between this and other boutique brands is that you get zero options here, and it’s a clever way to never be stuck with inventory or deal with constant customers asking for options, changing pickups, colors etc. I’ve worked at a big brand custom shop in LA and dealing with clowns that don’t really play, have too much money, change finishes all the time, want stainless steel fretwire even though they would never play enough to even scratch nickel wire, would want a brass block for their Floyd was pretty entertaining but annoying. Bravo to the Abasi model for eliminating all these headaches and maintaining awesome build quality in my opinion.


----------



## Alberto7

BlackMastodon said:


> I still have nothing to contribute to this thread other than the fact that it made me more interested in Aristides.



It made me buy a Boden Original 8 almost to be contrariant. It's a perfect guitar and I regret nothing.

... still want an Aristides tho.


----------



## BradleyAllan

My Master Series 8 has been solid and took little time to adjust to it. QC was actually on point and it’s doesn’t feel like it weighs that much. I’ve been used to Strandberg’s and expected it to weigh more than it did. Also didn’t notice much neck dive from it as well. It’s actually getting refinished right now to Shell Pink with Pat Wilkins in LA who is also another “finisher” for Abasi Concepts. Took a minute to get the headstock decal from Ivan at Abasi Concepts but nonetheless they sent it. I am also doing a full gold hardware swap on it. Super stoked to get that one back soon.


----------



## narad

Cockandballs said:


> All these guitars use a mix of finishers. Simms guitars does sone finishes, John blazy did the quilt and a few others hence the random build times once going back and forth from Grover or Japan. All of my guitars I bought on Abasi have been too notch (I’ve bought one almost every drop, never sold them and record regularly with them). It’s weird that the same three people on this forum constantly buy these, talk shit, buy them again, then talk shit again. Makes zero sense to me. I bought a J8 and the Master 6 flame top on the last drop. Both our top notch boutique build quality. Only difference between this and other boutique brands is that you get zero options here, and it’s a clever way to never be stuck with inventory or deal with constant customers asking for options, changing pickups, colors etc. I’ve worked at a big brand custom shop in LA and dealing with clowns that don’t really play, have too much money, change finishes all the time, want stainless steel fretwire even though they would never play enough to even scratch nickel wire, would want a brass block for their Floyd was pretty entertaining but annoying. Bravo to the Abasi model for eliminating all these headaches and maintaining awesome build quality in my opinion.



I wouldn't exactly call giving customers no options a "clever way" of solving the problem, nor a new way of going about it. They have enough hype that they can throw their weight around a bit, and get people to buy new guitars just to immediately turn around and pay for a full refinish and a hardware swap.


----------



## bassisace

Cockandballs said:


> It’s weird that the same three people on this forum constantly buy these, talk shit, buy them again, then talk shit again. Makes zero sense to me.



I did not have that impression at all. There have been documented cases of bad builds (hard to argue with pics).

Afaik, there's Hungry who bought a J7 two years ago (still has it) and a Spartan and returned the Spartan because he didn't like the upper neck, CW7 who bought a zillion of them and the InvisibleHand who bought and sold a few.

Not much illegitimate complaining from actual buyers. Who are you referring to? I think we need to distinguish between people who complain but haven't bought one and people who actually bought one and have legitimate complaints.

@BradleyAllan Gotta post some pics when you get it back.


----------



## BradleyAllan

I don’t disagree that there should be more options with the Abasi’s. I actually didn’t just buy my Master Series 8, I’ve had it for almost a year now. I went the refinishing route because they’ve never offered a Shell Pink Master Series 8 with gold hardware so I took it upon myself to actually get that done. I write with it frequently so it made sense for me personally to put some money into it to have what I wished they had offered as an option. That and it’s super hard to score one of these to begin with. But def agree for a $4k guitar it would be dope if they had more options for customization when buying. I actually just ordered a Shell Pink H/07r from Aristides that did give me options in customizing it so wish Abasi had something more like that. 

I’ll def post some photos up when I get it back. Stoked to get it!


----------



## Thrav

Has anyone had experience with installing a fishman universal recharging battery pack? 

I’d like to install one in my legion 8 but I don’t understand how it would fit right.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thrav said:


> Has anyone had experience with installing a fishman universal recharging battery pack?
> 
> I’d like to install one in my legion 8 but I don’t understand how it would fit right.



A few years ago I thought about installing one myself on my Strandberg Singularity. Since there was some slight digging into the body involved, I decided to let a luthier do the job. According to him, it was pretty straightforward. My advice: take it to a pro.


----------



## bjjman

Thrav said:


> Has anyone had experience with installing a fishman universal recharging battery pack?
> 
> I’d like to install one in my legion 8 but I don’t understand how it would fit right.


I've done it on my Warmoth partscaster but that was a straight up fitting with no modification required. In that instance the space taken up is outside the body - basically a super thick trem plate.

I have a Legion but I've not checked out the cavities as yet. You'd want to be really sure that you've got space for what you need to install. I'd go to the length of making a mock up that's the same size if you're unsure. Given the battery door is integrated into the backplate on the Legion, a clean install would likely involve having a new backplate (without the door) made up.

The Master Series Laradas actually come with the battery pack stock. I'd assume the cavities are the same but that's only a guess.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Cockandballs said:


> All these guitars use a mix of finishers. Simms guitars does sone finishes, John blazy did the quilt and a few others hence the random build times once going back and forth from Grover or Japan. All of my guitars I bought on Abasi have been too notch (I’ve bought one almost every drop, never sold them and record regularly with them). It’s weird that the same three people on this forum constantly buy these, talk shit, buy them again, then talk shit again. Makes zero sense to me. I bought a J8 and the Master 6 flame top on the last drop. Both our top notch boutique build quality. Only difference between this and other boutique brands is that you get zero options here, and it’s a clever way to never be stuck with inventory or deal with constant customers asking for options, changing pickups, colors etc. I’ve worked at a big brand custom shop in LA and dealing with clowns that don’t really play, have too much money, change finishes all the time, want stainless steel fretwire even though they would never play enough to even scratch nickel wire, would want a brass block for their Floyd was pretty entertaining but annoying. Bravo to the Abasi model for eliminating all these headaches and maintaining awesome build quality in my opinion.



You generally make super obtuse observations of whatever you're looking at. But here, I'll explain some solutions to the problems you outlined.

1) Charge an upcharge for the features being requested
2) Stipulate a charge anytime there's a spec change after a certain point in time
3) Do not offer options you take issue with incorporating

Taking issue with your consumer base on the basis of "this dude probably won't play enough, has way too much money, and can't make up his mind" seems like you want to shout at the clouds more than actually make money.

If you want to make social commentary, then you shouldn't really be in the business of catering to a client's needs as a *custom shop *employee. I see this kind of attitude everywhere from luthiers, instead of being snide about it just say what you will and won't do, and what you will do for what price. Saves me plenty of time when I decide who to send my money to. I had a local guy start refusing work on stainless steel because it was wearing away his tools, he didn't make a fuss and just said until he tools up for it he would only accept EVO Gold/Nickel. No drama, no wasted time, clear and concise.


----------



## porchy

Circling back on the chartreuse J8. It is wonderful.

I don’t need to repeat everything that had been said, but the quality really seems to all be there. I also take back the neck comment. It is a classic case of something I would never have acknowledged until somebody pointed it out. One day I caught myself playing in a standard position (on my right leg) and had no issues. The guitar conforms to your body.

dumb question, but what exactly is the oviform neck? The neck is great and the wenge is beautiful. I just am unsure what the asymmetric part is. Is it to do with a thinner neck on fret one and a much wider fretboard on fret 24? In any case, it’s awesome.

also, @CW7 — do you have any direct thoughts on J vs. Master now that you have them together? I see a master drop is coming in December and I almost want to irresponsibly partake. If master is just nicer materials but J has the cooler specs (other than no recharge), maybe I’ll just chill with the J.


----------



## Thrav

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> A few years ago I thought about installing one myself on my Strandberg Singularity. Since there was some slight digging into the body involved, I decided to let a luthier do the job. According to him, it was pretty straightforward. My advice: take it to a pro.



hmm I may do this with my strand too then .

cool I’ll have to hit up my local luthier.


----------



## Cockandballs

Jonathan20022 said:


> You generally make super obtuse observations of whatever you're looking at. But here, I'll explain some solutions to the problems you outlined.
> 
> 1) Charge an upcharge for the features being requested
> 2) Stipulate a charge anytime there's a spec change after a certain point in time
> 3) Do not offer options you take issue with incorporating
> 
> Taking issue with your consumer base on the basis of "this dude probably won't play enough, has way too much money, and can't make up his mind" seems like you want to shout at the clouds more than actually make money.
> 
> If you want to make social commentary, then you shouldn't really be in the business of catering to a client's needs as a *custom shop *employee. I see this kind of attitude everywhere from luthiers, instead of being snide about it just say what you will and won't do, and what you will do for what price. Saves me plenty of time when I decide who to send my money to. I had a local guy start refusing work on stainless steel because it was wearing away his tools, he didn't make a fuss and just said until he tools up for it he would only accept EVO Gold/Nickel. No drama, no wasted time, clear and concise.


They’re are not a custom shop. Hence the brilliance! It’s like apple. Steve Jobs - did not ask customers what they want- because you have to tell them what they want. You need steel frets like you need a hole in the head - it’s a dumb request because of the wear and tear on tools - and 99.9% of players, .1% being Eddie Van Halen doing a tour, so not steel frets. Giving options to customers who really don’t play is generally lame. I love the Abasi model / get what you get.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thrav said:


> hmm I may do this with my strand too then .
> 
> cool I’ll have to hit up my local luthier.



In my case, the Singularity had HSH pickup configuration. He removed the S, swapped the H for Fishman Abasis and put the rechargeable battery pack in the S spot (under the pickguard). Result: super clean and easily accessible USB port for charging.

If it weren't such a hassle I'd post a pic.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Cockandballs said:


> They’re are not a custom shop. Hence the brilliance! It’s like apple. Steve Jobs - did not ask customers what they want- because you have to tell them what they want. You need steel frets like you need a hole in the head - it’s a dumb request because of the wear and tear on tools - and 99.9% of players, .1% being Eddie Van Halen doing a tour, so not steel frets. Giving options to customers who really don’t play is generally lame. I love the Abasi model / get what you get.



I was commenting on the end of your previous comment, not on Abasi.

Players need whatever they want/can afford, don't know why there has to be all this spite and drama involved. If you hate people who prefer stainless steel frets and won't work on them or install them, then say so up front. There are plenty of people out there happy to take our cash.


----------



## CW7

Cockandballs said:


> They’re are not a custom shop. Hence the brilliance! It’s like apple. Steve Jobs - did not ask customers what they want- because you have to tell them what they want. You need steel frets like you need a hole in the head - it’s a dumb request because of the wear and tear on tools - and 99.9% of players, .1% being Eddie Van Halen doing a tour, so not steel frets. Giving options to customers who really don’t play is generally lame. I love the Abasi model / get what you get.




I’m not EVH. But I prefer SS. I have played in a band for a living since 2011. (And been in the same band since 1998). I destroy nickel frets. My old RG565 I used on the road looked like a Fretless wonder after a few years. Also, I just prefer the glass like feel of SS. So your opinion is just that… an opinion. I’ll take my SS on just about every guitar I own, save for a couple of PRS I keep in the studio. Everything else will be SS, and my tech has zero issue with working on them when the need arises. Yes, they’re harder on his tools, even charges me accordingly (as he should). Don’t see what the problem is.


----------



## Thrav

Cockandballs said:


> They’re are not a custom shop. Hence the brilliance! It’s like apple. Steve Jobs - did not ask customers what they want- because you have to tell them what they want. You need steel frets like you need a hole in the head - it’s a dumb request because of the wear and tear on tools - and 99.9% of players, .1% being Eddie Van Halen doing a tour, so not steel frets. Giving options to customers who really don’t play is generally lame. I love the Abasi model / get what you get.




Did you just compare yourself to Steve Jobs ? 

You sound like a narcissistic jerk tbh.


----------



## Thrav

Side Note, I was ironically going to say, I’m enjoying my Abasi the more that I play it, particularly because of the pick ups. Really making me want to install some in my strand if I could.


----------



## CW7

porchy said:


> Circling back on the chartreuse J8. It is wonderful.
> 
> I don’t need to repeat everything that had been said, but the quality really seems to all be there. I also take back the neck comment. It is a classic case of something I would never have acknowledged until somebody pointed it out. One day I caught myself playing in a standard position (on my right leg) and had no issues. The guitar conforms to your body.
> 
> dumb question, but what exactly is the oviform neck? The neck is great and the wenge is beautiful. I just am unsure what the asymmetric part is. Is it to do with a thinner neck on fret one and a much wider fretboard on fret 24? In any case, it’s awesome.
> 
> also, @CW7 — do you have any direct thoughts on J vs. Master now that you have them together? I see a master drop is coming in December and I almost want to irresponsibly partake. If master is just nicer materials but J has the cooler specs (other than no recharge), maybe I’ll just chill with the J.



i do have some insight on that. 
So- after a handful of Js and more than a couple Master series, I’ve decided if I had to pick “one”, I prefer the J. I REALLY like wenge neck and the teardrop profile. In fact, my only keepers right now in my Abasi arsenal are a J7 I got a few drops ago, and the black carbon 6 I snagged from TheInvisibleHand here on the forum. 

My overall impressions aside from the neck ; I’ve found the Js generally to have better fret work than the Master series. The Masters I’ve haD, while looking amazing, have always needed a minimum a couple frets leveled, and ALL of them have needed a saddle or two filed down to achieve the action I desire. I DO like that the Masters are a bit “sleeker” overall, vs the Js being a bit more “chunky” , but in the end I am willing to forgive the slight added heft in favor of the neck feel and overall setup feel I can obtain. As an aside, the Js have slightly lower and wider frets than the Masters. This is something else that’s a personal preference thing, and for me I just vibe better with the Js over the Masters when they’re both set up with similar action (after the aforementioned adjustments are made). 

I’ll add here in closing, as I mentioned in a prior post, I don’t know if the latest USA 6 is a different builder, but it’s MUCH better in basically EVERY area. I had my tech look it over to make sure I wasn’t nuts, and he agreed that it’s a BIG step up overall in build quality, fit and finish. I hope this is a sign of things to come, vs. a “one off” custom. Because I’d definitely add more to my lineup if they are on the level of the carbon 6. (The Carbon 6 is the ONLY abasi I’ve had that required ZERO attention from my tech. Took me all of 5 minutes to dump the action and it was good to go. That’s rare for me, and was a very pleasant surprise). 

Hope that helps. Best of luck in your larada hunt. I’d definitely be happy with my J. Only point I bring up is the obvious ; they hold value exceptionally well, so it’s essentially a no risk purchase if you want to side by side compare it with your J.


----------



## Cockandballs

Thrav said:


> Did you just compare yourself to Steve Jobs ?
> 
> You sound like a narcissistic jerk tbh.


I did not. It’s called an analogy. Perhaps you should spend less time in the forum and more time reading your hooked on phonics to comprehend the paragraph.


----------



## narad

Cockandballs said:


> They’re are not a custom shop. Hence the brilliance! ... Giving options to customers who really don’t play is generally lame. I love the Abasi model / get what you get.



[in a whispery seductive voice]:

Abasi: the instrument for the discerning customer who doesn't really play.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

narad said:


> [in a whispery seductive voice]:
> 
> Abasi: the instrument for the discerning customer who doesn't really play.



Queue commercial in grayscale with tall mostly nude models with slicked back hair running their fingers up and down the neck suggestively. On a beach in Greece for some reason.


----------



## Thrav

Cockandballs said:


> I did not. It’s called an analogy. Perhaps you should spend less time in the forum and more time reading your hooked on phonics to comprehend the paragraph.




Lmao uhhh an analogy is exactly what I said you did. You compared yourself/your position to Steve Jobs. 

That’s what an analogy is. 

oh boy the narcissism with you has completely engulfed any intelligence you had.


----------



## jephjacques

are people still flaming each other over these goofy ass guitars lmao


----------



## Thrav

jephjacques said:


> are people still flaming each other over these goofy ass guitars lmao



No, just one guy that apparently doesn’t like the idea of custom shop guitars because it gives people choices.


----------



## Cockandballs

You


Thrav said:


> Lmao uhhh an analogy is exactly what I said you did. You compared yourself/your position to Steve Jobs.
> 
> That’s what an analogy is.
> 
> oh boy the narcissism with you has completely engulfed any intelligence you had.


 any fix stupid. I compared Abasi Guitars to the Apple business model. I don’t blame you. I can’t get mad at you because your just, well, dumb and you don’t know any better. Have a nice day.


----------



## Thrav

Cockandballs said:


> You
> 
> any fix stupid. I compared Abasi Guitars to the Apple business model. I don’t blame you. I can’t get mad at you because your just, well, dumb and you don’t know any better. Have a nice day.



Except Abasi isn’t taking the stance you are. You’re implying they have your views, and you know that Tosin doesn’t. He didn’t, not start a full custom shop because he doesn’t like players (in your hypothetical situation that can’t play) wanting options.

You then compared yourself, your views to Steve Jobs and apple. 

I think you know you messed up with that, and that’s why your overtly aggressive, calling me dumb and all that. 

I think we all here see through your ego.


----------



## CW7

Cockandballs said:


> I did not. It’s called an analogy. Perhaps you should spend less time in the forum and more time reading your hooked on phonics to comprehend the paragraph.


How do we discern who plays and who doesn’t?


----------



## ArtDecade

Cockandballs said:


> You
> 
> any fix stupid. I compared Abasi Guitars to the Apple business model. I don’t blame you. I can’t get mad at you because your just, well, dumb and you don’t know any better. Have a nice day.









#TeamThrav


----------



## StevenC

Idk, two guys calling each other dumb but both using your instead of you're. 10/10


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

We should start a running list of the person in this thread who is " that guy"

If memory serves correctly, we had a Turdsandwhich, this Cockandballs dude, who else?


----------



## Dayn

CW7 said:


> How do we discern who plays and who doesn’t?


If it's anything I've learned from guitar forums, the people who play less are the ones who play more. So by that logic, guitars owned by people who don't play them are the most musical.


----------



## Thrav

StevenC said:


> Idk, two guys calling each other dumb but both using your instead of you're. 10/10



Lol meh, I don’t do a lot of proof reading when I’m writing online. I do enough of that at university.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

TheInvisibleHand said:


> We should start a running list of the person in this thread who is " that guy"
> 
> If memory serves correctly, we had a Turdsandwhich, this Cockandballs dude, who else?



I vote for the nikebots guy to come spice things up.


----------



## CW7

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> I vote for the nikebots guy to come spice things up.


We definitely need more NikeBots guy


----------



## MaxOfMetal

This thread just attracts the worst internet guitar personalities.


----------



## Hollowway

Not to wade into this too far, but I get what cockandballs is saying. Sounds like he’s saying that the abasi model is like the apple model, in that Tosin is not giving people choices. It’s a top down decision of what he thinks people will like. And it’s definitely working. People are tripping over themselves to buy these things at ever increasing prices. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn’t change this to a semi custom model, either. Tosin is clearly saying that he thinks people will agree with his choices of specs on the guitar, because he set up a whole company around it. This is one of the few guitar start up companies that has not begun with standard body styles. In the Cerebus thread we were talking about how new companies, like Cerebus, Solar, etc, tend to start with pretty conservative shapes and specs. Whereas Tosin has always been about the Larada shape and 8 strings as his debut model. This is definitely not the guitar he’d have wound up with if he crowd sourced the design. It’s a “this is my guitar, and you will like it,” business model, and people are buying them within minutes of release. It also reminds me of the Jem models, and other things where there are a lot of potentially polarizing choices, but people don’t walk away when the choices are bold.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

So we're forgetting that they tried the whole custom thing and tripped over their dick the whole time? Sure.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> Not to wade into this too far, but I get what cockandballs is saying. Sounds like he’s saying that the abasi model is like the apple model, in that Tosin is not giving people choices. It’s a top down decision of what he thinks people will like. And it’s definitely working.



I don't think people are tripping over themselves to buy them because Tosin devised an amazing business model. I think they're tripping over themselves to buy them because there's like 50 of them. Doug didn't devise some amazing business models by taking orders and then building whatever he wanted. People still queued up by the hundreds.

It's fine if he doesn't want to do a custom shop. It's just hardly a "brilliant" anything. There's a ton of examples of it. They usually just don't cost custom-shop prices if they're not custom shop.



MaxOfMetal said:


> So we're forgetting that they tried the whole custom thing and tripped over their dick the whole time? Sure.



Is that this "big dick energy" I've been hearing about?


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> Not to wade into this too far, but I get what cockandballs is saying. Sounds like he’s saying that the abasi model is like the apple model, in that Tosin is not giving people choices. It’s a top down decision of what he thinks people will like. And it’s definitely working. People are tripping over themselves to buy these things at ever increasing prices. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn’t change this to a semi custom model, either. Tosin is clearly saying that he thinks people will agree with his choices of specs on the guitar, because he set up a whole company around it. This is one of the few guitar start up companies that has not begun with standard body styles. In the Cerebus thread we were talking about how new companies, like Cerebus, Solar, etc, tend to start with pretty conservative shapes and specs. Whereas Tosin has always been about the Larada shape and 8 strings as his debut model. This is definitely not the guitar he’d have wound up with if he crowd sourced the design. It’s a “this is my guitar, and you will like it,” business model, and people are buying them within minutes of release. It also reminds me of the Jem models, and other things where there are a lot of potentially polarizing choices, but people don’t walk away when the choices are bold.



And it's worth remembering that it didn't start out as a "you get what I want" product...it *started* as customizable guitars. And we remember how that went.


----------



## klaim

Yeah they went into that new model only because the other models were failing or less predictive, nothing to do with ideology, just trying to make a business actually work.

And they started selling with less guitars per batch probably because they couldn't afford to fail too much. Basically, they are still experimenting, business-wise.


----------



## Hollowway

klaim said:


> Yeah they went into that new model only because the other models were failing or less predictive, nothing to do with ideology, just trying to make a business actually work.
> 
> And they started selling with less guitars per batch probably because they couldn't afford to fail too much. Basically, they are still experimenting, business-wise.



Yeah, it depends on what you mean by ideology. I mean, it may now be their ideology to not have customizable options because of what they've learned. But, fundamentally, I DO think Tosin's ideology is that people will like an 8 string Larada, because he didn't start his business with a 6 string strat or tele model, like so many other companies.


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> I don't think people are tripping over themselves to buy them because Tosin devised an amazing business model. I think they're tripping over themselves to buy them because there's like 50 of them. Doug didn't devise some amazing business models by taking orders and then building whatever he wanted. People still queued up by the hundreds.



See, I DO think Doug (and now, to a certain extent, Tosin) has an amazing business model. Doug basically sells the Emperor's New Clothes. It's easy to restrict sales of something. It's NOT easy to get people whipped up into a frenzy about a standard product. We know that telling people they can't have something makes them want it more, but not every luthier can come along and just say, "Hey, I've got a new guitar I'm bringing to market. And I won't be making many of them." It takes a lot of either purposefully or organically created hype to pull that off. Just about every business wants this - high prices, lots of demand, low production, great reputation. But not many companies (guitar or otherwise) are able to achieve it. I know Doug or Tosin didn't design that business model, but they did get there one way or another.


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> "Hey, I've got a new guitar I'm bringing to market. And I won't be making many of them."



Who is it, have they made any MAGA/over-woke tweets, and are they taking deposits?


----------



## CovertSovietBear

Hollowway said:


> Not to wade into this too far, but I get what cockandballs is saying.


He's balls deep is what he's saying


----------



## Demiurge

I'm sorry, but isn't offering a product in a limited set of variations what most companies do? Is this innovation now? It might seem _counterintuitive_ (and therefore clever) in light of the target market's obsession with customization, but, as noted, custom was Plan A.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> See, I DO think Doug (and now, to a certain extent, Tosin) has an amazing business model. Doug basically sells the Emperor's New Clothes. It's easy to restrict sales of something. It's NOT easy to get people whipped up into a frenzy about a standard product. We know that telling people they can't have something makes them want it more, but not every luthier can come along and just say, "Hey, I've got a new guitar I'm bringing to market. And I won't be making many of them." It takes a lot of either purposefully or organically created hype to pull that off. Just about every business wants this - high prices, lots of demand, low production, great reputation. But not many companies (guitar or otherwise) are able to achieve it. I know Doug or Tosin didn't design that business model, but they did get there one way or another.



I disagree. Doug would not have gotten there without Nolly/Misha. It was a very serendipitous situation for Doug, but it would be hard to argue that he shaped or reacted to this situation in any way. He was basically doing the same thing before djent and the same thing after djent, and the fact that his business had an express ticket to sky-high prices riding that rocket is completely detached from his business model or practices.


----------



## foreright

narad said:


> I disagree. Doug would not have gotten there without Nolly/Misha. It was a very serendipitous situation for Doug, but it would be hard to argue that he shaped or reacted to this situation in any way. He was basically doing the same thing before djent and the same thing after djent, and the fact that his business had an express ticket to sky-high prices riding that rocket is completely detached from his business model or practices.



Yup... classic case of being in the right place at the right time. Not that I begrudge him success of course  It's a bit like two of my friends who bought their first house after they left uni back just before the market here utterly exploded. They bought a 3 bed house for £113k as a house share and sold it two years later for over £600k which pretty much set them up forever. given 300k is a pretty decent deposit on their own place. That doesn't make them investment geniuses - just lucky


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> he didn't start his business with a 6 string strat or tele model



The first batch of actual guitars had multiple 6 strings and they were teasing the "Space Tele" before those even came out.


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> I disagree. Doug would not have gotten there without Nolly/Misha. It was a very serendipitous situation for Doug, but it would be hard to argue that he shaped or reacted to this situation in any way. He was basically doing the same thing before djent and the same thing after djent, and the fact that his business had an express ticket to sky-high prices riding that rocket is completely detached from his business model or practices.


Yeah, I think where we are going back and forth on is whether Doug invented, planned, or somehow willed this business model to be. I agree he didn’t. I just mean it’s a great business model, and most people would love to have it. It’s difficult to achieve, though, because you need to get the hype either purposefully or organically. Endorsements are a big part of it for any brand, for sure. And you can seek them out (Jimmy Iovine style) or fall ass backwards into them and get lucky. I just think this limited release, high price model is a great thing, if you can get it. Same thing happened with the Majesty 8. No way those things would sell out so quickly if JP wasn’t involved. But I still think it’s crazy that they were able to get so many people paying a lot for an otherwise common instrument. 

Anyway, I agree that Doug and Tosin didn’t invent or set out to do this business model. I just think it’s a great model, and offers a lot of profit without as much overhead. One way or another they both wound up with it, and are riding it as long as they can.


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> The first batch of actual guitars had multiple 6 strings and they were teasing the "Space Tele" before those even came out.


Yeah, that space tele was weird. I’m not sure what the thought process there was. He was clearly committed to the Larada, because that design had been around for yeeears. But that space tele came out of left field. At least from what I knew.


----------



## narad

I think the problem with the limited release high price model thing is your basic pricing structure model -- there's a distribution of what prices people will buy your product for. If you're going to only sell 8 guitars, you can give them to the 8 people at the highest point of that distribution, and you have to do it at the price point of the 8th highest guy there (everyone pays the same price).

The limited release thing works well here, but as you continue to produce you start eating into lower points of that distribution. You may have asked a high price first, but if you were going to produce n instruments you need to keep your price in line with the nth highest person in the market. In that sense, Tosin could have thrown these out at $6k and I'm sure they would have sold. But I also think that's a quickly exhausted market. 

In Doug's case, if Doug wanted to make 20 guitars a year, I don't think he could. He'd have to cut some deals to actually get them into people's hands, and then the other customers would not be happy about it. Tosin's price isn't crazy, but I'm just pointing out the obvious downsides of limited release/high price and how things will appear from the outside. If you look at Abasis selling out and say, wow, what a great model. Well, at this point, you should expect them to sell out. There's definitely 50 people in the world that'll pay $4.5k for that sort of guitar. Are there 500? 1500? If they get a bad rep on quality, I'm not really sure.


----------



## Cockandballs

StevenC said:


> Idk, two guys calling each other dumb but both using your instead of you're. 10/10


I'm glad someone picked up on that as it was done by design. It was my attempt to speak his language.


----------



## Cockandballs

Hollowway said:


> Not to wade into this too far, but I get what cockandballs is saying. Sounds like he’s saying that the abasi model is like the apple model, in that Tosin is not giving people choices. It’s a top down decision of what he thinks people will like. And it’s definitely working. People are tripping over themselves to buy these things at ever increasing prices. If I were in his shoes, I wouldn’t change this to a semi custom model, either. Tosin is clearly saying that he thinks people will agree with his choices of specs on the guitar, because he set up a whole company around it. This is one of the few guitar start up companies that has not begun with standard body styles. In the Cerebus thread we were talking about how new companies, like Cerebus, Solar, etc, tend to start with pretty conservative shapes and specs. Whereas Tosin has always been about the Larada shape and 8 strings as his debut model. This is definitely not the guitar he’d have wound up with if he crowd sourced the design. It’s a “this is my guitar, and you will like it,” business model, and people are buying them within minutes of release. It also reminds me of the Jem models, and other things where there are a lot of potentially polarizing choices, but people don’t walk away when the choices are bold.


Exactly! Let's not forget, his custom shop was a failure. Falbo could not keep up with the parts and the specs (like 8 string Floyd rose tremolos - who needs that?). This model scales, and all of us keep buying it.


----------



## StevenC

Cockandballs said:


> I'm glad someone picked up on that as it was done by design. It was my attempt to speak his language.


----------



## cardinal

The problem with Abasi's business model is that there's not a straight-scale 8 with a Floyd. I thought we all agreed on that.


----------



## Cockandballs

cardinal said:


> The problem with Abasi's business model is that there's not a straight-scale 8 with a Floyd. I thought we all agreed on that.


 it was a low point for the company


----------



## StevenC

Cockandballs said:


> (like 8 string Floyd rose tremolos - who needs that?)


The guy in Animals as Leaders


----------



## Hollowway

StevenC said:


> The guy in Animals as Leaders


And me and @cardinal and @trem licking. So much so I literally bought another Agile 827 with Floyd this week, lol.


----------



## Hollowway

Cockandballs said:


> it was a low point for the company


BLASPHEMER! Floyd 8s are played by Jesus and the Holy Ghost.


----------



## trem licking

Hollowway said:


> And me and @cardinal and @trem licking. So much so I literally bought another Agile 827 with Floyd this week, lol.


These are requirements for me to buy electric guitars going forward. 8 strings and floyds. Needless to say, i am saving a lot of money heh


----------



## porchy

CW7 said:


> i do have some insight on that.
> So- after a handful of Js and more than a couple Master series, I’ve decided if I had to pick “one”, I prefer the J. I REALLY like wenge neck and the teardrop profile. In fact, my only keepers right now in my Abasi arsenal are a J7 I got a few drops ago, and the black carbon 6 I snagged from TheInvisibleHand here on the forum.
> 
> My overall impressions aside from the neck ; I’ve found the Js generally to have better fret work than the Master series. The Masters I’ve haD, while looking amazing, have always needed a minimum a couple frets leveled, and ALL of them have needed a saddle or two filed down to achieve the action I desire. I DO like that the Masters are a bit “sleeker” overall, vs the Js being a bit more “chunky” , but in the end I am willing to forgive the slight added heft in favor of the neck feel and overall setup feel I can obtain. As an aside, the Js have slightly lower and wider frets than the Masters. This is something else that’s a personal preference thing, and for me I just vibe better with the Js over the Masters when they’re both set up with similar action (after the aforementioned adjustments are made).
> 
> I’ll add here in closing, as I mentioned in a prior post, I don’t know if the latest USA 6 is a different builder, but it’s MUCH better in basically EVERY area. I had my tech look it over to make sure I wasn’t nuts, and he agreed that it’s a BIG step up overall in build quality, fit and finish. I hope this is a sign of things to come, vs. a “one off” custom. Because I’d definitely add more to my lineup if they are on the level of the carbon 6. (The Carbon 6 is the ONLY abasi I’ve had that required ZERO attention from my tech. Took me all of 5 minutes to dump the action and it was good to go. That’s rare for me, and was a very pleasant surprise).
> 
> Hope that helps. Best of luck in your larada hunt. I’d definitely be happy with my J. Only point I bring up is the obvious ; they hold value exceptionally well, so it’s essentially a no risk purchase if you want to side by side compare it with your J.




You’re the man. Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply.

It sounds like J is the answer. The wenge neck is really solid. I see that the master drop is 8s, so that makes my choice easier. If it included 7s… I’d probably take a stab. So glad to hear you’re loving the carbon quilt. It’s gorgeous.


----------



## porchy

Also, maybe I’m naive for asking this on a specialist board like this, but are a lot of you guys really that into minor specs on guitars/customizing everything you own?

I love this abasi. But I also love my American strat just as much. There is a time and place for both. They fact that they are so different makes them even more exciting to play. Taken what you are “given” adds to it.


----------



## porchy

A tremolo dip or flutter on an 8 string would just sound like a fart, tbh.


----------



## cardinal

porchy said:


> A tremolo dip or flutter on an 8 string would just sound like a fart, tbh.



You say that like it's bad? We don't have to buy that Fart pedal. But I can do Dime squeals and dive bombs on my 8s as well as any other guitar. Mine are not set floating so they don't flutter.


----------



## CanserDYI

porchy said:


> A tremolo dip or flutter on an 8 string would just sound like a fart, tbh.


....you realize there are still the regular strings on an 8 string right? You don't have to dip or flutter the lowest note ..you can use it for the regular 6 string you have built into it...


----------



## trem licking

porchy said:


> A tremolo dip or flutter on an 8 string would just sound like a fart, tbh.


Flutter farts are my favorite kind of farts tbh


----------



## BlackMastodon

CanserDYI said:


> ....you realize there are still the regular strings on an 8 string right? You don't have to dip or flutter the lowest note ..you can use it for the regular 6 string you have built into it...


Fool! You actually think that the standard 6 strings in a 7 or 8 string guitar are usable? No! You only use the low B or F# on those guitars. The audacity!


----------



## cardinal

BlackMastodon said:


> Fool! You actually think that the standard 6 strings in a 7 or 8 string guitar are usable? No! You only use the low B or F# on those guitars. The audacity!



I'm not even sure why my 8-strings have all these frets?
--------------------------
--------------------------
--------------------------
--------------------------
--------------------------
--------------------------
--------------------------
0--000-00----0--0000-0


----------



## porchy

CanserDYI said:


> ....you realize there are still the regular strings on an 8 string right? You don't have to dip or flutter the lowest note ..you can use it for the regular 6 string you have built into it...



Flutter. Farts.


----------



## CW7

porchy said:


> Also, maybe I’m naive for asking this on a specialist board like this, but are a lot of you guys really that into minor specs on guitars/customizing everything you own?
> 
> I love this abasi. But I also love my American strat just as much. There is a time and place for both. They fact that they are so different makes them even more exciting to play. Taken what you are “given” adds to it.



I have my preferences of course (like stainless steel frets, even though “someone” here informed me only EVH was allowed to prefer SS…), BUT… I also like variety. I have two Suhrs, for instance, that have different size frets, as well as different FB woods (maple and Pau Ferro). I actually try and AVOID too much redundancy. Usually when I sling something it’s because I have another axe that fills that job just fine. So I try and not get too Carried away with “customization”, aside from getting my guitars set up to my preference, I tend to play them as they come out of the case. (I have on more than one occasion gone a little nuts with Aristides builds, but that’s more for the sake of a theme I’m after vs. something that actually contributes to functionality. )


----------



## Hollowway

porchy said:


> Also, maybe I’m naive for asking this on a specialist board like this, but are a lot of you guys really that into minor specs on guitars/customizing everything you own?
> 
> I love this abasi. But I also love my American strat just as much. There is a time and place for both. They fact that they are so different makes them even more exciting to play. Taken what you are “given” adds to it.


I, personally, am not. This is joking to sound sarcastic, but the one big "must" for me is that the actual guitar already exists. I've been burned too many times ordering a custom. (And, as an aside, sometimes I'll see a builder post a guitar in-stock, and I'll enquire about it, only to find it's been sold. They'll offer to build me another one, and I'll tell them I only like to buy stuff that's already made, just because I've been scammed enough that it's my new policy, and they'll get mad, because they think I'm implying that they're a scammer. But, honestly, they have to know how many scammy guitar builders are out there.) I am super flexible in terms of requirements, but obviously there are some things I'd prefer over others. Not many deal killers, though. I'm just not the guy who says, "I need a custom because I need a roasted maple neck and a limba body for my tone, and there are no production guitars that match that."


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

drop inc

6s in a sexy new finish


----------



## Daniel Leu

Probably a very stupid question, but does anyone have any advice if I'd like to try swapping pickups in my Legion 7? I love the guitar itself and the Abasi Fluences are great (especially 2nd position) but I don't really play much metal and they're pretty hot and overall not what I would usually go for. 

It looks like currently it has a set of Abasi 8-strings in there (even though it's a 7), I assume to just provide more coverage. Does that mean I'd probably have to go with something that doesn't have individual pole pieces? AND is 8-string sized?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Well fuck me. 6 string drop tomorrow. Shell pink AND a chameleon type finish.


----------



## porchy

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Well fuck me. 6 string drop tomorrow. Shell pink AND a chameleon type finish.



Yup. Having a real moment of weakness here after getting the J!


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

porchy said:


> Yup. Having a real moment of weakness here after getting the J!


Ha! Yeah, i feel you. I was literally debating pulling the trigger on a different guitar and then got the drop email. Their timing is impeccable.


----------



## porchy

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Ha! Yeah, i feel you. I was literally debating pulling the trigger on a different guitar and then got the drop email. Their timing is impeccable.



Both colors are great. Also curious about the solar beam yellow. Looks pretty awesome.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Jeez I really hope they drop a Space T like they randomly did with the last drop


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Any takers tonight? I will be trying for one. Shamefully so!


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Any takers tonight? I will be trying for one. Shamefully so!


I plan to. Never tried a Larada before so hopefully I have some luck this time around


----------



## porchy

Literally typed the wrong shopify code in and missed the mystic dream by 2 seconds. No!


----------



## Cockandballs

Got the mystic dream


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

snagged the pink one


----------



## porchy

Cockandballs said:


> Got the mystic dream


I got the shell pink. Touche, my friend.


----------



## porchy

Either there were two pinks, or one of us is going to be disappointed...


----------



## NCeuRign

Heh. I also tried for the mystic dream and missed out.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

The blue is still up. Surprised no one snagged that. No Space T's unfortunately


----------



## Cockandballs

…and they are all gone. Except that awful looking blue


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

porchy said:


> Either there were two pinks, or one of us is going to be disappointed...



Im guesing two. There were two carbon fiber ones last round as well. So wouldnt be out of the norm.


----------



## NCeuRign

porchy said:


> Either there were two pinks, or one of us is going to be disappointed...



There have been more than one of both of mine in previous drops. And in the insta last week there were like half a dozen of the latte.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Got the Mystic Dream as well. I'm giving it a shot. If I manage to snag a Space T on the drop next month, the Mystic will be up for grabs!


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

porchy said:


> Either there were two pinks, or one of us is going to be disappointed...


The question is, what was your order number?


----------



## NCeuRign

rohanranjan said:


> Got the Mystic Dream as well. I'm giving it a shot. If I manage to snag a Space T on the drop next month, the Mystic will be up for grabs!


I would be very interested in buying it.


----------



## porchy

rohanranjan said:


> Got the Mystic Dream as well. I'm giving it a shot. If I manage to snag a Space T on the drop next month, the Mystic will be up for grabs!



DM me if you have a change of heart. Shell pink was second on my list, so I'm not that disappointed. Going to be hard to outside the chartreuse J8, though...

You guys and all you tremolo talk made me want one!


----------



## porchy

TheInvisibleHand said:


> The question is, what was your order number?


Haha. ends in 99. Uh oh.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Will let you guys know right after it turns up!


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Idk if it was just me but the Abasi site made my computer crash, twice. Had to checkout on my phone


----------



## Cockandballs

…you know. The prices on these went up again . I think last year the Spartans we’re $3299 - or am I taking crazy pills


----------



## porchy

Cockandballs said:


> …you know. The prices on these went up again . I think last year the Spartans we’re $3299 - or am I taking crazy pills



CPI is up 4.5%


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Price is up, but these also have better features and are better builds.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Price is up, but these also have better features and are better builds.


Dude the blue is STILL up


----------



## NCeuRign

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Price is up, but these also have better features and are better builds.



My 6 from the last run cost the same as the mystic dream but it has nickel frets and doesn't have the hipshot tuners (side note - they look cool but traditional tuners are much better to use I reckon)


----------



## porchy

rohanranjan said:


> Dude the blue is STILL up


Crazy. I don’t think it’s THAT ugly.


----------



## Cockandballs

It’s a horrible color 


rohanranjan said:


> Dude the blue is STILL up


----------



## Cockandballs

…Abd the ugliest Abasi ever built goes to - clarion cocksuckin blue


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Cockandballs said:


> …Abd the ugliest Abasi ever built goes to - clarion cocksuckin blue


A bit over the top. I actually quite like the blue


----------



## Cockandballs

…well you know it’s bad when they repost on the gram. It’s like sell out in 90 seconds or bust.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Oh interesting. Just realized the Mystic was $3799. All others were $3599


----------



## porchy

See you guys back here when the mystic dream 8 drops.

that might be too many abasis for one household, though…


----------



## NCeuRign

I've got two and was trying for three. Hasn't CW7 got like 18 or something?


----------



## CW7

NCeuRign said:


> I've got two and was trying for three. Hasn't CW7 got like 18 or something?


Maybe at one time. Not anymore . I’m down to TWO if you can believe that. And for those wondering WHICH TWO; the white
J7 and the Carbon 6 Master came out on top the keepers .


----------



## Cockandballs

porchy said:


> See you guys back here when the mystic dream 8 drops.
> 
> that might be too many abasis for one household, though…





rohanranjan said:


> Oh interesting. Just realized the Mystic was $3799. All others were $3599


yesh. It’s as much as an 8 string now. At this rate they will be over $4 by next year. I think my 8 mystic was that much. I don’t remember it was last years drop and they called it something else. Pvrp or something.


----------



## porchy

Yeah CW7’s review on the carbon made me want to give a master 6 a shot. I’m loving my J8.

going to be fun when they mass produce the higher-end stuff, and all our collections plummet in value


----------



## Lordcephid

Actually what's the difference between the Master 6 and the Spartan 6? If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time they're releasing a Master 6...


----------



## NCeuRign

The quilt black and flame last time were called "custom 6", just to confuse things further. They don't appear on the regular master or spartan page


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Lordcephid said:


> Actually what's the difference between the Master 6 and the Spartan 6? If I'm not mistaken, this is the first time they're releasing a Master 6...


So looks like the Spartan had an open grain finish, swamp ash body, different fretboard, nickel frets, abasi locking tuners as opposed to a 2 sheen finish, roasted basswood body, stainless steel frets and hipshot locking tuners.

Looks like the drop yesterday was a step up in quality


----------



## StevenC

If they keep releasing these at 3am on Monday morning I am never buying one.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

StevenC said:


> If they keep releasing these at 3am on Monday morning I am never buying one.


Honestly might be worth chatting with folks on this thread to find one eventually


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

I canceled ny order for the pink so its back up for grabs on the site.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I canceled ny order for the pink so its back up for grabs on the site.


OH wow how come? 
https://abasiconcepts.com/products/larada-6-master-series-shell-pink-figured-maple for anyone interested


----------



## porchy

Do you know something I don’t…


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Nah, nothing dramatic. Before I got the drop email, I was seriously considering one of three other guitars. The one I chose was going to be my last big guitar purchase for a while, and I wanted it to really be something special (at least to me and my interests). 

The contest was between a really unique PRS Cu24, the Framus Stormbender, and an ESP original Horizon.

I bought the Larada because shell pink is my weakness, but the more I thought about it the more I realized I was only buying it because I liked the "idea" of having it but more than likely would regret my decision due to the opportunity cost of missing out on the other guitars. 

So I chose the Stormbender instead becasue I really like the specs and I get hard for DT.


----------



## Cockandballs

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Nah, nothing dramatic. Before I got the drop email, I was seriously considering one of three other guitars. The one I chose was going to be my last big guitar purchase for a while, and I wanted it to really be something special (at least to me and my interests).
> 
> The contest was between a really unique PRS Cu24, the Framus Stormbender, and an ESP original Horizon.
> 
> I bought the Larada because shell pink is my weakness, but the more I thought about it the more I realized I was only buying it because I liked the "idea" of having it but more than likely would regret my decision due to the opportunity cost of missing out on the other guitars.
> 
> So I chose the Stormbender instead becasue I really like the specs and I get hard for DT.


You’re incredibly odd.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Just got the shipment notification! Also the shell pink is still up


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Cockandballs said:


> You’re incredibly odd.



Because I chose one guitar that better suited my needs/ desires over another? Yeah, someone call the freak police cause theres a monster on the loose!


----------



## Cockandballs

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Because I chose one guitar that better suited my needs/ desires over another? Yeah, someone call the freak police cause theres a monster on the loose!


well, yeah. Reading on this thread the last few weeks, i believe you bought on the last drop, solid it in a day, bought on this drop and cancelled the order. It's incredibly odd and indecisive. obviously do what you want. it's an observation.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Cockandballs said:


> well, yeah. Reading on this thread the last few weeks, i believe you bought on the last drop, solid it in a day, bought on this drop and cancelled the order. It's incredibly odd and indecisive. obviously do what you want. it's an observation.



Indecisive? yes. Odd? not really. 

To each their own. Not hating on the guitars. Just chose something else.


----------



## Cockandballs

you are like the tinder hookup for guitars, use em - toss them aside, ghost them and just alwasy on the hunt for something better


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Cockandballs said:


> you are like the tinder hookup for guitars, use em - toss them aside, ghost them and just alwasy on the hunt for something better



ok.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

The blue is back up!


----------



## TheHardwareChap

StevenC said:


> If they keep releasing these at 3am on Monday morning I am never buying one.


If you're still awake, there are two available. The blue and the shell pink


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Eeesh. UPS ground. Delivery next Monday


----------



## Cockandballs

Another mystic dream is up now too


----------



## NCeuRign

Goddamn missed again


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Cockandballs said:


> Another mystic dream is up now too


You didn't Cancel yours right?


----------



## porchy

Are you kidding me


----------



## porchy

Do you think the Abasi Concepts guys laugh when they read this thread, or do you think they get pissed off at the fickle impulses of all of us? Def one of the two.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Anyone else getting an error message from their site?


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Anyone else getting an error message from their site?


An specific errors? Works alright for me


----------



## MaxOfMetal

porchy said:


> Do you think the Abasi Concepts guys laugh when they read this thread, or do you think they get pissed off at the fickle impulses of all of us? Def one of the two.



I know I'm laughing.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

rohanranjan said:


> An specific errors? Works alright for me



"
*This site can’t be reached*
The webpage at *https://abasiconcepts.com/* might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.

ERR_INVALID_RESPONSE


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> "
> *This site can’t be reached*
> The webpage at *https://abasiconcepts.com/* might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.
> 
> ERR_INVALID_RESPONSE


Nopes all good on my end. Check in incognito


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

rohanranjan said:


> Nopes all good on my end. Check in incognito


works.....


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> works.....


Literally some weird caching. Clear cookies and you should be good to go


----------



## Cockandballs

rohanranjan said:


> You didn't Cancel yours right?


 - no.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Cockandballs said:


> - no.


Interesting. Minimum 3 this drop then


----------



## Alberto7

MaxOfMetal said:


> I know I'm laughing.



Almost makes it seem like there's only 3 guys in the forum buying these.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Probably. There are still 2 available. Everyone here got one so looks like no one else buys em


----------



## Cockandballs

Alberto7 said:


> Almost makes it seem like there's only 3 guys in the forum buying these.


agree, that's why I don't think they will scale. It may be a fad like Parker Fly. I hope note, but the more I'm on this forum the more it makes me think it's just this same group.


----------



## CW7

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Because I chose one guitar that better suited my needs/ desires over another? Yeah, someone call the freak police cause theres a monster on the loose!


The nerve


----------



## CW7

This carbon 6 gave me high hopes for these . Hell, if the master 8s had been on this level I’d still have at least 1 or 2. Maybe next time they drop 8 I’ll give it a final go to compare. I just couldn’t justify another 6 in a different color. (Especially when I JUST got a Suhr In a chameleon finish with almost the exact same spec. And it’s a Suhr).


----------



## TheHardwareChap

CW7 said:


> This carbon 6 gave me high hopes for these . Hell, if the master 8s had been on this level I’d still have at least 1 or 2. Maybe next time they drop 8 I’ll give it a final go to compare. I just couldn’t justify another 6 in a different color. (Especially when I JUST got a Suhr In a chameleon finish with almost the exact same spec. And it’s a Suhr).


Aren't you selling the Suhr?


----------



## NCeuRign

rohanranjan said:


> Probably. There are still 2 available. Everyone here got one so looks like no one else buys em



If only there were two more mystics for me and porchy ... I checked within 3 minutes of Cockandballs' post saying one had come up and it was gone. No-one here has claimed it so it makes me think it was either a lurker or coincidentally a person from outside this forum


----------



## Cockandballs

as you say that, the pink sold - anybody here get it?


----------



## CW7

rohanranjan said:


> Aren't you selling the Suhr?


Maybe. Lol I’ve debated keeping it. It’s redundant (breaking my rule of not having two of the same guitar) but it’s also pretty sick . I splurged on snagging something I didn’t expect so it’s an attempt to do some damage control. Guess time will tell.


----------



## porchy

NCeuRign said:


> If only there were two more mystics for me and porchy ... I checked within 3 minutes of Cockandballs' post saying one had come up and it was gone. No-one here has claimed it so it makes me think it was either a lurker or coincidentally a person from outside this forum



As much as I’d love a mystic, I’ve always wanted a shell pink, so I’m happy with snagging that one. CW7 giving high hopes for the 6, too. (I won’t hold you to it — don’t worry!)

if I was feeling insane, I’d prob try for the mystic 8 drop next month, but buying another 8 based off of finish is just too much. Especially if it doesn’t have the cool oviform neck.

speaking of Suhr — they are similarly priced, right? I saw this custom on Instagram and have wanted it ever since:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CN7ued8nPZo/?utm_medium=copy_link


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Cockandballs said:


> as you say that, the pink sold - anybody here get it?


Anddd someone finally bought the blue too


----------



## TheHardwareChap

porchy said:


> As much as I’d love a mystic, I’ve always wanted a shell pink, so I’m happy with snagging that one. CW7 giving high hopes for the 6, too. (I won’t hold you to it — don’t worry!)
> 
> if I was feeling insane, I’d prob try for the mystic 8 drop next month, but buying another 8 based off of finish is just too much. Especially if it doesn’t have the cool oviform neck.
> 
> speaking of Suhr — they are similarly priced, right? I saw this custom on Instagram and have wanted it ever since:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CN7ued8nPZo/?utm_medium=copy_link


I'm unfortunately traveling all of December. If you manage to snag a Space T on the next drop, I would happily trade the Mystic for it


----------



## NCeuRign

Well I have my 6 from the last drop on my lap right now and I am very happy with it. As much as I love the 8 it's less versatile for everyday. I hope you guys enjoy your 6s equally.


----------



## CW7

porchy said:


> As much as I’d love a mystic, I’ve always wanted a shell pink, so I’m happy with snagging that one. CW7 giving high hopes for the 6, too. (I won’t hold you to it — don’t worry!)
> 
> if I was feeling insane, I’d prob try for the mystic 8 drop next month, but buying another 8 based off of finish is just too much. Especially if it doesn’t have the cool oviform neck.
> 
> speaking of Suhr — they are similarly priced, right? I saw this custom on Instagram and have wanted it ever since:
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CN7ued8nPZo/?utm_medium=copy_link


The Suhr stuff is indeed similarly priced ; usually mid 4s for solid spec. Certainly can go higher. And Suhr is one of THE most consistently made instruments on the planet. Every one I’ve owned has been take out of case, slam action, Get to work.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

CW7 said:


> The Suhr stuff is indeed similarly priced ; usually mid 4s for solid spec. Certainly can go higher. And Suhr is one of THE most consistently made instruments on the planet. Every one I’ve owned has been take out of case, slam action, Get to work.


That's how I feel about Aristides too.


----------



## CW7

rohanranjan said:


> That's how I feel about Aristides too.


As do I.


----------



## CW7

Here’s the Carbon with two other (probable) keepers. It’s staying in constant rotation now, which I’m pleasantly surprised with. 













30338E8E-D6D4-402C-8796-C7540F604708



__ CW7
__ Nov 17, 2021


----------



## TheHardwareChap

CW7 said:


> Here’s the Carbon with two other (probable) keepers. It’s staying in constant rotation now, which I’m pleasantly surprised with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30338E8E-D6D4-402C-8796-C7540F604708
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Nov 17, 2021


Beautiful. The carbon really stands out more than I expected it to. Super cool.


----------



## cardinal

CW7 said:


> Here’s the Carbon with two other (probable) keepers. It’s staying in constant rotation now, which I’m pleasantly surprised with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30338E8E-D6D4-402C-8796-C7540F604708
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Nov 17, 2021


Those are some guitars right there. Nice.


----------



## Cockandballs

How does majesty 8 compare to Aristides and Abasi? I can’t past that bridge


----------



## Thrav

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Thanks for the writeup.
> 
> I had the opposite conclusion comparing the Endureneck to the J Larada ovoid neck. I guess the Legion neck is very different from the J neck.



I'm eating my words. The Abasi has grown on me more than I thought....

I think I'm prepared to say I like it more than my Strand ......


----------



## CW7

Cockandballs said:


> How does majesty 8 compare to Aristides and Abasi? I can’t past that bridge


That’s a tough one. I wish at times I could smash them together. I love the weight and scale of the majesty. (My h/08 even as a raw is still on the chunky feeling side). But it’s not QUITE up to the absolutely flawless execution of Aristides. I’m torn on it. I WANT to love it (every since I got my first mystic dream majesty I said to myself “holy shit if they made an 8 like this…”. I’m also admittedly incredibly spoiled on my idea of what I want out of an 8. I’m a small statue dude ; I had a custom Toone done for me early this year and , of course , holy shit it’s beyond description. It makes all my others kinda’ feel like they’re unnecessary. It’s almost a new instrument , where the others are just “normal” guitars with more strings. Jury is still out on that for me, I guess. It sure is pretty to look at , though. I’ll say this - EBMM CRUSHED the finish on these.


----------



## CW7

Cockandballs said:


> How does majesty 8 compare to Aristides and Abasi? I can’t past that bridge


I realize I neglected to address the comparison that’s actually relevant to this thread … the Majesty vs Abasi. 
So… it’s better made, for sure. Very clean, no obvious flaws. Finish is IMMACULATE. BUT- I do like the spacing, fret size of the Abasi. The majesty uses what feels like the same wire as the other Majesty’s, and I just prefer the Abasi (namely the J style, medium tall and WIDE). Also, this is not a big deal for me, but I know that majesty having a gloss neck makes some people vomit. I’ve never had an issue with a gloss neck, but I like the wenge necks on the J Abasis a tad more (also, I’m a big fan of that ovoid/teardrop thing . Super comfy And really fits my hand).


----------



## Thrav

CW7 said:


> That’s a tough one. I wish at times I could smash them together. I love the weight and scale of the majesty. (My h/08 even as a raw is still on the chunky feeling side). But it’s not QUITE up to the absolutely flawless execution of Aristides. I’m torn on it. I WANT to love it (every since I got my first mystic dream majesty I said to myself “holy shit if they made an 8 like this…”. I’m also admittedly incredibly spoiled on my idea of what I want out of an 8. I’m a small statue dude ; I had a custom Toone done for me early this year and , of course , holy shit it’s beyond description. It makes all my others kinda’ feel like they’re unnecessary. It’s almost a new instrument , where the others are just “normal” guitars with more strings. Jury is still out on that for me, I guess. It sure is pretty to look at , though. I’ll say this - EBMM CRUSHED the finish on these.



Can you throw up a pic of that Toone?


----------



## porchy

Thrav said:


> I'm eating my words. The Abasi has grown on me more than I thought....
> 
> I think I'm prepared to say I like it more than my Strand ......



If the 6 comes before my strand, I'll be very impressed.

The J is a great time. I guess I jumped in at the right moment in October because I see the last batch was October 2020. Are they a once-a-year guitar?

I currently have my $300 Fender Mexican strat in my lap. My first guitar ever. Gotta remember where I started! (Also these things are beasts for the price... I got it back when I was like nine years old.)


----------



## NCeuRign

One thing I noticed today on my 8. Intonation up the neck was out on the high E. I had a look at the saddle and the string had slipped out of its little groove a couple of eighths of an inch. I pushed it back in and it fixed the intonation but kind of marked the saddle a little bit and something to keep an eye on. Perhaps from too much bending? The saddle groove isn't super deep.


----------



## Hollowway

CW7 said:


> Here’s the Carbon with two other (probable) keepers. It’s staying in constant rotation now, which I’m pleasantly surprised with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30338E8E-D6D4-402C-8796-C7540F604708
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Nov 17, 2021


I know the Majesty is small, but it looks smaller because it’s set back of the others? Or would you say those sizes in the photo are accurate? The Larada looks huge compared to the Majesty!


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Just got here. I'll save the review for a separate post. First impressions, it's WAY lighter than my Regius. Neck is a lot thicker though. Not sure how I feel about it yet but it's definitely super cool













20211122_152008



__ TheHardwareChap
__ Nov 22, 2021


----------



## NCeuRign

I'll send my postal address for when you decide you don't like it


----------



## Thrav

Yeah I’m going to double down on Abasi now. Going to sell my strand Boden Metal 8 to help pay for a J Larada, possibly a masters.

the string spacing and string tension was the deciding factor for me.

Why would their market team not highlight the closer string space and the options to have 2 string anchor points.

Well regardless, I love it, and I’m eating my words.


----------



## xzacx

Thrav said:


> Why would their market team not highlight the closer string space and the options to have 2 string anchor points.



I feel like they do highlight the closer spacing? It's like the main reason I haven't tried to buy one.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

NCeuRign said:


> I'll send my postal address for when you decide you don't like it


LOL that day may be closer than expected. Like I said earlier, if I manage to snag a Space T next drop, this is all yours.


----------



## porchy

First impression are that they are two very different instruments. J somehow almost feels lighter than the US!

but excited to break them in and compare the two.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

rohanranjan said:


> LOL that day may be closer than expected. Like I said earlier, if I manage to snag a Space T next drop, this is all yours.



Ah so you're the guy that bought that regius from Pitbull!!


----------



## Hollowway

Thrav said:


> Yeah I’m going to double down on Abasi now. Going to sell my strand Boden Metal 8 to help pay for a J Larada, possibly a masters.
> 
> the string spacing and string tension was the deciding factor for me.
> 
> Why would their market team not highlight the closer string space and the options to have 2 string anchor points.
> 
> Well regardless, I love it, and I’m eating my words.



How do you mean the string tension? You mean you prefer the shorter scale length on the Larada, or you like the gauges they shipped with?


----------



## Hollowway

xzacx said:


> I feel like they do highlight the closer spacing? It's like the main reason I haven't tried to buy one.


Same. If I can try one in person, maaaaaybe, but I don't do well with narrow string spacing.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Ah so you're the guy that bought that regius from Pitbull!!


LOL. Were you eyeing it? I got a great deal so I pulled the trigger. Was about to get the Master Resin one from Brian's but that sold out unfortunately


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

rohanranjan said:


> LOL. Were you eyeing it? I got a great deal so I pulled the trigger. Was about to get the Master Resin one from Brian's but that sold out unfortunately



I was. It sat for a long time and I couldn't justify it. But damn is it nice.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I was. It sat for a long time and I couldn't justify it. But damn is it nice.


Nicest guitar I've ever owned. On the musiclive website, you can put in offers. I just went 20% lower and they accepted. Couldn't say no after that.


----------



## CW7

Thrav said:


> Can you throw up a pic of that Toone?















36B2C638-CCC5-4F6B-8C7F-6AB26C82BF3D



__ CW7
__ Nov 23, 2021






here ya go.


----------



## CW7

Hollowway said:


> I know the Majesty is small, but it looks smaller because it’s set back of the others? Or would you say those sizes in the photo are accurate? The Larada looks huge compared to the Majesty!


Oh that’s 100% the perspective of the pic. BUT/ in general I found the majesty to be on the smaller side, compared to something like an 080s Aristides which is just massive on my smaller frame and bordering unmanageable. Larada 8 and Majesty are definitely in the same category, size wise, imo


----------



## Hollowway

CW7 said:


> Oh that’s 100% the perspective of the pic. BUT/ in general I found the majesty to be on the smaller side, compared to something like an 080s Aristides which is just massive on my smaller frame and bordering unmanageable. Larada 8 and Majesty are definitely in the same category, size wise, imo


Ah, interesting. I had assumed that the Larada was more Aristides sized.


----------



## Thrav

xzacx said:


> I feel like they do highlight the closer spacing? It's like the main reason I haven't tried to buy one.



I haven’t found them mention it all on their website nor anywhere on their insta. I’ve only ever seen Tosin mention it off hand a few times. Correct if I’m wrong though but talking to other communities i see a lot not being aware of that. Also the string anchoring points not being mentioned either.



Hollowway said:


> How do you mean the string tension? You mean you prefer the shorter scale length on the Larada, or you like the gauges they shipped with?



I meant the having two string anchor points which really was noticeable for the thicker strings. Really awesome feature to have.



CW7 said:


> 36B2C638-CCC5-4F6B-8C7F-6AB26C82BF3D
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Nov 23, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here ya go.



What a beautiful guitar, much more appealing than a lot of the Toones I see. Personally speaking of course.


----------



## Hollowway

Thrav said:


> I meant the having two string anchor points which really was noticeable for the thicker strings. Really awesome feature to have.


Sorry, I don't mean to be daft, but what do you mean about the two string anchor points? It looks like both instruments have the strings anchored at the bridge and nut. Or do you mean you don't like the zero nut on the strandy?


----------



## Thrav

Oh no worries

In the picture, I have the high strings through the body and the low end strings through the saddles themselves.


----------



## Hollowway

Thrav said:


> Oh no worries
> 
> In the picture, I have the high strings through the body and the low end strings through the saddles themselves.


Ohhh, ok, I get it. And does that give a particular advantage for either side? I understand that it would be hard to have a fatty go through the body and bend up over the saddle, but why not have the high strings not go through the body, too?


----------



## cardinal

Supposedly the tension/feel of the string is different depending on whether it's through-body or saddle-mounted.


----------



## thomas.reuter

Gonna be buying a buddy's Legion 8 Sage, I'm stoked.


----------



## Thrav

Hollowway said:


> Ohhh, ok, I get it. And does that give a particular advantage for either side? I understand that it would be hard to have a fatty go through the body and bend up over the saddle, but why not have the high strings not go through the body, too?



Tension feels better going through the saddle for the thicker strings. I like my high strings to be a little less rigid with lead playing so they’re through the body.


----------



## Thrav

thomas.reuter said:


> Gonna be buying a buddy's Legion 8 Sage, I'm stoked.



Good stuff, what do you normally play with ?


----------



## Thrav

Thinking of selling my boden 8 to help fund a masters.


----------



## thomas.reuter

Thrav said:


> Good stuff, what do you normally play with ?


I play more 7 than 8, my main 7 is a Strandberg Boden Original and my main 8 is an RGA8 with Tosin Fishmans. I'm really pumped to make the upgrade on the 8 string side.


----------



## thomas.reuter

Also, Larada Legions dropping today at 1pm PST/4pm EST


----------



## danbox

How are people liking the legions? Let’s see if I can go through all these pages in an hour…


----------



## Alberto7

CW7 said:


> Oh that’s 100% the perspective of the pic. BUT/ in general I found the majesty to be on the smaller side, compared to something like an 080s Aristides which is just massive on my smaller frame and bordering unmanageable. Larada 8 and Majesty are definitely in the same category, size wise, imo



Huh interesting. The Laradas look ginormous in pictures. Never seen one in the flesh.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

thomas.reuter said:


> Also, Larada Legions dropping today at 1pm PST/4pm EST


Going super slow. Pretty much all still available


----------



## millenarianism

Ordered the metallic red legion when they went up for sale today. 

For Legion owners, how are the Abasi-branded tuners?


----------



## Deadpool_25

I ordered a Legion 8 Stealth.

I had no reason for doing so other than I don’t own an 8 yet. And that’s not even a _good_ reason.


----------



## cardinal

Deadpool_25 said:


> I ordered a Legion 8 Stealth.
> 
> I had no reason for doing so other than I don’t own an 8 yet. And that’s not even a _good_ reason.





millenarianism said:


> Ordered the metallic red legion when they went up for sale today.
> 
> For Legion owners, how are the Abasi-branded tuners?


Congrats! Both of those are great looking.


----------



## bjjman

Deadpool_25 said:


> I ordered a Legion 8 Stealth.
> 
> I had no reason for doing so other than I don’t own an 8 yet. And that’s not even a _good_ reason.


That was the exact logic I used, questionable though it may be.


----------



## CW7

bjjman said:


> That was the exact logic I used, questionable though it may be.


 As did I . Supposedly lands tomorrow . (I did the black 8 and will drop white pickups in, in an attempt to fill The void of the J8 I sold and miss. )


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CW7 said:


> As did I . Supposedly lands tomorrow . (I did the black 8 and will drop white pickups in, in an attempt to fill The void of the J8 I sold and miss. )



You can try and try, but that void will never be filled.


----------



## jephjacques

CW7 said:


> 36B2C638-CCC5-4F6B-8C7F-6AB26C82BF3D
> 
> 
> 
> __ CW7
> __ Nov 23, 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> here ya go.



oh wow a Toone that doesn't look like it was built from the rubble of a Burning Man encampment! 

(but seriously though that's the coolest looking one I've ever seen)


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Ok so I'm actually really enjoying this Master 6. Pleasantly surprised by it. First time trying the Fishman Pickups as well. Super versatile.

Question. For those that own a Space T, any thoughts? Is it worth it? Or would I be better off with a T style for Suhr/Anderson?


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> oh wow a Toone that doesn't look like it was built from the rubble of a Burning Man encampment!
> 
> (but seriously though that's the coolest looking one I've ever seen)


----------



## ArtDecade

^ That's weird looking and I am def not cool enough to pull off playing it.


----------



## jephjacques

StevenC said:


>



I stand by my previous post


----------



## Deadpool_25

Deadpool_25 said:


> I ordered a Legion 8 Stealth.
> 
> I had no reason for doing so other than I don’t own an 8 yet. And that’s not even a _good_ reason.



Soooooo…..yeah….canceled that order. 

Because I really should have at least a half-decent reason to spend 2 grand lol


----------



## Thrav

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CW4GBWoFWD5/?utm_medium=copy_link

Loving mine. Making some strides with it for sure.


----------



## Hollowway

Deadpool_25 said:


> Soooooo…..yeah….canceled that order.
> 
> Because I really should have at least a half-decent reason to spend 2 grand lol


You and I are the opposite on gear - I have trouble rationalizing amp purchases, but will buy another guitar if it has literally anything different from what I currently own.


----------



## Cockandballs

Thrav said:


> https://www.instagram.com/tv/CW4GBWoFWD5/?utm_medium=copy_link
> 
> Loving mine. Making some strides with it for sure.


Wait. Are you really an evil socialist that purchased an Abasi guitar? Because


Thrav said:


> https://www.instagram.com/tv/CW4GBWoFWD5/?utm_medium=copy_link
> 
> Loving mine. Making some strides with it for sure.



nice playing. But you are joking about being an evil socialist as that’s incredibly ironic after buying one of these


----------



## Thrav

Cockandballs said:


> Wait. Are you really an evil socialist that purchased an Abasi guitar? Because
> 
> 
> nice playing. But you are joking about being an evil socialist as that’s incredibly ironic after buying one of these




Yes, I am a socialist, and you don’t know what socialism or being a socialist is if you think buying a guitar is ironic. Lol


----------



## Thrav

Anyone use Abasi’s neural DSP plugin. It’s hard to get that low end to sound less boomy. I just bought Nolly as it was recommended to me. Can’t wait to give it a go after work.


----------



## Thrav

Cockandballs said:


> …the new logins are great. Although I’d check out the Plini one too which I think sounds a bit better.
> 
> …Well it’s ironic because Tosin is the quintessential capitalist. You basically helped him make his Ferrari payments. Just a bit dopey if you are a “socialist” buying plugins. You should be redistributing your wealth.



Ugh I really didn’t want to get into my political beliefs but. 

Individual wealth redistribution of a low income person is reductio ad absurdum of my beliefs of how an economic system and society should function as a collective. I’m part of class of people that would receive the redistribution of wealth and frankly so would you. 

Unfortunately for me, I live in a capitalist system and have to participate if I want to survive and/or thrive. There’s no conflict there, I’m playing the game, but at the same time advocating causes and using my vote to incorporate socialist policies.

You’re way out of your league here and you should probably stop watch right wingers make easily refutable arguments. 

I’m going to do what you essentially did. You don’t like child starvation right ? 

well why are you spending money on guitars? That money could easily go to hungry children. 

You just continuously show how low your capacity is for substantial reasoning.


----------



## ArtDecade

Thrav said:


> You just continuously show how low your capacity is for substantial reasoning.


----------



## Cockandballs

I’m a hardcore capitalist and enjoy buying many many guitars, plugins and stocks to buy more. In fact, this thread inspired me to drop money on a Toone. I love my iPhone built in a sweat shop. But yes the children starving and the sweat shop labor is the unfortunate part of that but eh. I do my part as I buy only the master series models as they are made in the US unlike the sweatshop in Korea for the WM models which is why they are so cheap (Although the pickups and tuners are made in Asia but eh). But all good. I always admire the socialist hypocrisy of compromising their own interests to get a cheap guitar. But hey you can go live in Cuba or Vietnam - they love having all kinds of free things. All good. To each his own.


----------



## Thrav

Cockandballs said:


> So you reply by showing a meme with an actor worth millions equally as dopey. At least show a socialist meme to make your point. Maybe Karl Marx (you probably don’t know who he was never mind)



Dude are you just here to troll ? Like why can’t you contribute to the thread in a constructive manner.

You either insult or bring something up to be argumentative. Like bro there’s forums for that. If you want to fight socialist philosophy there’s tons of people willing to debate you.

This really isn’t the place for it yeah?


----------



## BigViolin

Guitars are fun.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Cockandballs said:


> So you reply by showing a meme with an actor worth millions equally as dopey. At least show a socialist meme to make your point. Maybe Karl Marx (you probably don’t know who he was never mind)


Pretty sure Marx wrote the "communist manifesto" not the "socialist manifesto".

Two different things there buddy. Marx was a staunch communist.


----------



## ArtDecade

Cockandballs said:


> I’m a hardcore capitalist



You are 21 and that makes you a hardcore child. Come back when you've had enough time to study anything for longer than a hot minute. "Study" is being used very loosely here.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Man, this thread never ceases to deliver.


----------



## ArtDecade

BigViolin said:


> Guitars are fun.



Guitars are serious business.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

MaxOfMetal said:


> This thread just attracts the worst internet guitar personalities.



Yup.


----------



## Cockandballs

Actually. Karl Marx argued that socialism is needed to get to communism to redistribute wealth. But yes it’s always good to see “views”. So do we have any flat earthers that are shredding on their Abasi legions?


----------



## ArtDecade

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yup.



Bonus points for quoting yourself.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Cockandballs said:


> Actually. Karl Marx argued that socialism is needed to get to communism to redistribute wealth. But yes it’s always good to see “views”. So do we have any flat earthers that are shredding on their Abasi legions?


No he did not.

He argued that the proletariat needed to rise up against the ruling class which he called the bourgeoise. He argued for several mechanisms to support that. You're just throwing around words you heard somewhere online in a failed attempt to get enough shit to stick to the wall to make the shadow of a point.

Maybe read the book first and then come at me.

PS: if my username here doesn't give you some hint about what my background is in, then you're beyond help.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

This is my favorite thread.


----------



## Deadpool_25

Hollowway said:


> You and I are the opposite on gear - I have trouble rationalizing amp purchases, but will buy another guitar if it has literally anything different from what I currently own.



You only think that because I don’t post my NGD threads


----------



## SpaceDock

Since when did socialism mean you don’t get nice things? Socialism is that the group controls the means, distribution, and exchange of goods vs private business owners. I would argue that if we were a true socialist society more of us would have nice things than the current status quo, but then again I wouldn’t use my Bernie bucks on an Abasi either.


----------



## Cockandballs

…Tosin would not sell Larada guitars if he could not redistribute his wealth to get a new Ferrari. Just saying. Anyway who’s stoked about the new Space Ts?


----------



## Jonathan20022

SpaceDock said:


> Since when did socialism mean you don’t get nice things? Socialism is that the group controls the means, distribution, and exchange of goods vs private business owners. I would argue that if we were a true socialist society more of us would have nice things than the current status quo, but then again I wouldn’t use my Bernie bucks on an Abasi either.



Luxury goods only exist in a capitalist society containing privileged people to sell those products to. Nothing that caters to this forum, (ERG, multiscale, hand wound pickups, exotic woods, etc) would exist. There isn't a single socialist that can ground up explain economically supporting the manufacturing of so much luxury bullshit sustainably. 

A co-op building instruments would build the equivalent of what an AI could tell you a guitar looks like if you teach it to identify one.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The. Absolute. Worst.

Can y'all go back to talking about guitars?


----------



## Cockandballs

Jonathan20022 said:


> Luxury goods only exist in a capitalist society containing privileged people to sell those products to. Nothing that caters to this forum, (ERG, multiscale, hand wound pickups, exotic woods, etc) would exist. There isn't a single socialist that can ground up explain economically supporting the manufacturing of so much luxury bullshit sustainably.
> 
> A co-op building instruments would build the equivalent of what an AI could tell you a guitar looks like if you teach it to identify one.


Exactly! that's why I'm excited that we've been able to transfer the boring Fender Tele into the Space Tele as a luxury. I'm hoping they do a mystic dream finish or maybe one of those carbon finished would be superb. Or a 7 string Space Tele would be ideal.


----------



## CanserDYI

Capalism sucks, communism and socialism haven't worked out the kinks to make it sustainable, etc.

Now back to Abasi guitars and how Tosin allegedly can't afford Porsche's and Ferrari's like Misha can. (Misha seemed to flex a bit, and Tosin embarrassingly said something along the lines of "I cant flex, please please please keep buying my products".)


----------



## Cockandballs

CanserDYI said:


> Capalism sucks, communism and socialism haven't worked out the kinks to make it sustainable, etc.
> 
> Now back to Abasi guitars and how Tosin allegedly can't afford Porsche's and Ferrari's like Misha can. (Misha seemed to flex a bit, and Tosin embarrassingly said something along the lines of "I cant flex, please please please keep buying my products".)


Right Misha, probably the best entrepreneur in the space and fellow capitalism enthusiast, has a dope car. But go check out Tosin on the gram. I think he bought a Ferrari. You can finance them for 15 years, so they are much more attainable than you think. Pretty much every Abasi is a BMW, Lambo or Ferrari colour which is pretty cool.


----------



## Alberto7

After getting back to SSO from my forum hiatus, I thought this place had become too civil. (Props to the mods.) Almost like a room that is TOO quiet and you know something ain't right. I should have known better... 

Just DM one another to talk, stop flashing your e-peepees to everyone.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thrav said:


> https://www.instagram.com/tv/CW4GBWoFWD5/?utm_medium=copy_link
> 
> Loving mine. Making some strides with it for sure.



Nice playing and nice guitar man!

Since we're plugging our IG pages  , here's the last thing I wrote with my J7. Not active much on IG...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CB9XlobnaLQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link


----------



## bassisace

Anybody got their Legion yet? How's the QC?



HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Nice playing and nice guitar man!
> 
> Since we're plugging our IG pages  , here's the last thing I wrote with my J7. Not active much on IG...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CB9XlobnaLQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link



Tosin, Jack Gardiner and all those other guys scared you off of Instagram when they started following you hahaha



Cockandballs said:


> Right Misha, probably the best entrepreneur in the space and fellow capitalism enthusiast, has a dope car. But go check out Tosin on the gram. I think he bought a Ferrari. You can finance them for 15 years, so they are much more attainable than you think. Pretty much every Abasi is a BMW, Lambo or Ferrari colour which is pretty cool.



Dude, no one cares.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Cockandballs said:


> I’m a hardcore capitalist and enjoy buying many many guitars, plugins and stocks to buy more. In fact, this thread inspired me to drop money on a Toone. I love my iPhone built in a sweat shop. But yes the children starving and the sweat shop labor is the unfortunate part of that but eh. I do my part as I buy only the master series models as they are made in the US unlike the sweatshop in Korea for the WM models which is why they are so cheap (Although the pickups and tuners are made in Asia but eh). But all good. I always admire the socialist hypocrisy of compromising their own interests to get a cheap guitar. But hey you can go live in Cuba or Vietnam - they love having all kinds of free things. All good. To each his own.


This doesn't scream Capitalist to me. This entire thing just screams 'douche'.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Last call to get back on topic before I nuke this thread and y'all can pull your puds over these things elsewhere.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

MaxOfMetal said:


> Last call to get back on topic before I nuke this thread and y'all can pull your puds over these things elsewhere.


doitdoitdoitdoit


----------



## cardinal

Getting back on track here guys with the real issue: why no str8 scale 8 with a Floyd? Or at least a 7-string Space Tele?

Adventurous guitars but still sorta playing it safe.


----------



## StevenC

cardinal said:


> Getting back on track here guys with the real issue: why no str8 scale 8 with a Floyd? Or at least a 7-string Space Tele?
> 
> Adventurous guitars but still sorta playing it safe.


8 string Space T with straight frets, tele pickups and two B benders please!


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Can anyone with a Space T give impressions/thoughts?


----------



## narad

Jonathan20022 said:


> A co-op building instruments would build the equivalent of what an AI could tell you a guitar looks like if you teach it to identify one.



Come on, man, you just trying to rope me into this argument with that sort of AI reference?


----------



## Deadpool_25

MaxOfMetal said:


> Last call to get back on topic before I nuke this thread and y'all can pull your puds over these things elsewhere.



Like


----------



## Cockandballs

rohanranjan said:


> Can anyone with a Space T give impressions/thoughts?


I have one. It’s great. My only two gripes are 1. the bridge should have individual saddles for adjusting. It can be annoying to get the intonation right if you do lots of jazz chords. I upgraded to a gotoh modern tele bridge. 2. For the price it should have strap locks. It feels weird to use live as it’s not a guitar to play low so I play it higher than my Fenders or Suhrs. It’s on par with a Fender Ultra.


----------



## Hollowway

cardinal said:


> Getting back on track here guys with the real issue: why no str8 scale 8 with a Floyd? Or at least a 7-string Space Tele?
> 
> Adventurous guitars but still sorta playing it safe.


No one:
Absolutely no one:
Me: Totally! We need more 8 strings with Floyd’s. Yes, it’s a niche instrument. But I find it super odd that loads of dudes okay 6s with Floyds. Loads of dudes okay 7s with Floyds. But 8s with Floyds? Nope. Apparently the Venn for those extra 5 notes and a Floyd barely overlap. It’s just weird. It almost makes me want to get off this forum, go practice, get famous with a Floyd 8, and inspire companies to make such an instrument. Almost.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> No one:
> Absolutely no one:
> Me: Totally! We need more 8 strings with Floyd’s. Yes, it’s a niche instrument. But I find it super odd that loads of dudes okay 6s with Floyds. Loads of dudes okay 7s with Floyds. But 8s with Floyds? Nope. Apparently the Venn for those extra 5 notes and a Floyd barely overlap. It’s just weird. It almost makes me want to get off this forum, go practice, get famous with a Floyd 8, and inspire companies to make such an instrument. Almost.



I'm all for it in the Stef context where he doesn't use it at all but it still looks badass.


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> I'm all for it in the Stef context where he doesn't use it at all but it still looks badass.


Holy crap, I forgot about his shell pink 8 with Floyd. That would be an amazing guitar. But unless I infect myself with some pondman blood, I’ll never be able to have one. Cuz ESP ain’t gonna ever make it.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> Holy crap, I forgot about his shell pink 8 with Floyd. That would be an amazing guitar. But unless I infect myself with some pondman blood, I’ll never be able to have one. Cuz ESP ain’t gonna ever make it.



I have fingers-crossed it'll be a new model at some point. Still will be $4k, but I'd do that. Beats refinishing.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Hollowway said:


> No one:
> Absolutely no one:
> Me: Totally! We need more 8 strings with Floyd’s. Yes, it’s a niche instrument. But I find it super odd that loads of dudes okay 6s with Floyds. Loads of dudes okay 7s with Floyds. But 8s with Floyds? Nope. Apparently the Venn for those extra 5 notes and a Floyd barely overlap. It’s just weird. It almost makes me want to get off this forum, go practice, get famous with a Floyd 8, and inspire companies to make such an instrument. Almost.



I asked Pascal at Aristides to put one on an 080 for me like 4 years ago, I don't think that's an option still other than the Hantung Trem on the H/08. There's so many misconceptions about trems though and it just stems from lack of knowledge on setting up a trem in the first place.

FR should just have an online e-course where you can get certified after learning about the Floyd and how to set one up. That way I can just discard opinions if it's coming from someone without a clue more easily  It's all tension and balance, I tried an 8 String Applehorn and the trem responded in no abnormal way besides a negligible amount of extra tension since it needed more/shorter springs.


----------



## shpence

Jonathan20022 said:


> FR should just have an online e-course where you can get certified after learning about the Floyd and how to set one up. That way I can just discard opinions if it's coming from someone without a clue more easily



Yes. Double yes.


----------



## Hollowway

Jonathan20022 said:


> I asked Pascal at Aristides to put one on an 080 for me like 4 years ago, I don't think that's an option still other than the Hantung Trem on the H/08. There's so many misconceptions about trems though and it just stems from lack of knowledge on setting up a trem in the first place.
> 
> FR should just have an online e-course where you can get certified after learning about the Floyd and how to set one up. That way I can just discard opinions if it's coming from someone without a clue more easily  It's all tension and balance, I tried an 8 String Applehorn and the trem responded in no abnormal way besides a negligible amount of extra tension since it needed more/shorter springs.


Yeah, I LOVE the Hantug one. I am not brand specific - I just liked fully floating trems. I’m 10th grade we had to write a step by step “how to” and I did mine on how to set up a Floyd.  It’s not hard, it’s just steps to do, and a lot of people can’t be bothered to learn I guess.


----------



## Thrav

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Nice playing and nice guitar man!
> 
> Since we're plugging our IG pages  , here's the last thing I wrote with my J7. Not active much on IG...
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CB9XlobnaLQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link




Thanks brother ! Def giving ya a follow !


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

What’s the body finish type on the black/red/white Legions?

Is it gloss with matte near the strings like the Js?



bassisace said:


> Tosin, Jack Gardiner and all those other guys scared you off of Instagram when they started following you hahaha.



Hehe, nah, it made me realize I have a lot of work to do to get better (technique, composition, improv) and little time, so I decided to cut on social media. Also, I found my current playing brings no value; I’m still in the trying to emulate your idols phase.

My gf losing her job due to Covid and me joining a demanding research project didn’t help with spare time. But it’s all good


----------



## CW7

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> What’s the body finish type on the black/red/white Legions?
> 
> Is it gloss with matte near the strings like the Js?
> 
> The new legions are ALL matte . No gloss . (I got the black stealth for a test drive).
> 
> 
> 
> Hehe, nah, it made me realize I have a lot of work to do to get better (technique, composition, improv) and little time, so I decided to cut on social media. Also, I found my current playing brings no value; I’m still in the trying to emulate your idols phase.
> 
> My gf losing her job due to Covid and me joining a demanding research project didn’t help with spare time. But it’s all good


----------



## Hollowway

Well, let's be real: They're temporarily matte. Give it enough play time and the front will be gloss.


----------



## CW7

Hollowway said:


> Well, let's be real: They're temporarily matte. Give it enough play time and the front will be gloss.


Fair point


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Hollowway said:


> Well, let's be real: They're temporarily matte. Give it enough play time and the front will be gloss.



Case in point: my pinky dragging across my J7 glossed part of the matte finish.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

Has anyone seen this? I get it's for Jason Becker's fundraiser but couldn't they at least have gotten a Master series to represent the brand when it's price jacked into oblivion? Or maybe this is just going to be standard second hand rate for Legions from here on out? https://reverb.com/item/42082287-ab...-by-tosin-abasi-shredforjasonbeckerfundraiser


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

The Blue Ghost said:


> Has anyone seen this? I get it's for Jason Becker's fundraiser but couldn't they at least have gotten a Master series to represent the brand when it's price jacked into oblivion? Or maybe this is just going to be standard second hand rate for Legions from here on out? https://reverb.com/item/42082287-ab...-by-tosin-abasi-shredforjasonbeckerfundraiser



Thats been up for a while now. Who'd pay that much for a Legion, even if it is for a good cause?


----------



## CanserDYI

The Blue Ghost said:


> Has anyone seen this? I get it's for Jason Becker's fundraiser but couldn't they at least have gotten a Master series to represent the brand when it's price jacked into oblivion? Or maybe this is just going to be standard second hand rate for Legions from here on out? https://reverb.com/item/42082287-ab...-by-tosin-abasi-shredforjasonbeckerfundraiser


Does the fact that Tosin accidentally marked up the paint on the back with his signature instead of keeping it all on the back plate drive anyone else crazy?


----------



## getowned7474

Got white 8 string Legion from the last drop in yesterday. I was a little regretful after ordering, paying 2k for an import was a bit scary but I have zero regrets.

Not only was it worth the price it seems like a solid deal too. Plays every bit as good as the couple Musicman guitars and better than a Kiesel I have owned and plenty other high end guitars I've played in person. In fact it's the best set up guitar out of the box I've ever had, I wonder if they have the guitars shipped to a good tech after it comes from WMI or if WMI guitars come with better setups nowadays.

The only downside are a couple small blemishes, one tiny part of the paint has a dimple where the top coat didn't full cover the primer, and a couple of peices of dust embedded in the paint. And the nut is rough cut on the high e although it isn't causing issues, some glue overflow, and a blemish on the side of the nut.

The frets are nicely polished and well leveled, the fretboard and wood binding to cover the fret ends are insanely clean. The only new guitars I can think of that would compare that are cheaper honesty would be a well setup Ibanez rg5328 or something and that's 1900 so you only paying 100 extra for fishmans multiscale, unique design etc.


----------



## millenarianism

Also received my Legion 8 yesterday. I wanted the guitar to acclimate so I've had very little time with it. I got to play it for a few mins and had some time looking it over, so here are a couple first impressions:

The frets look good and are finished well. The finish on the guitar itself looks good (I got the red one) and clean for the most part. One issue with the finish I found was on the neck. On the treble side near the nut, there's an _extremely_ rough patch near the binding of the fretboard. I haven't done anything to it yet, but I'm tempted to sand it a little to smooth it out. The other issue is some sort of white residue / gunk where the neck meets the body in two spots.

Other than that, I don't have many negatives. The neck feels a little cheap to me compared to my Music Man Richardson 7, but it's far more comfortable to play. In fact, with how the guitar sits on my body and how the neck is carved, the Legion is significantly more comfortable to play than my MM 7.


----------



## jephjacques

getowned7474 said:


> Not only was it worth the price it seems like a solid deal too. Plays every bit as good as the couple Musicman guitars and better than a Kiesel I have owned and plenty other high end guitars I've played in person. In fact it's the best set up guitar out of the box I've ever had, I wonder if they have the guitars shipped to a good tech after it comes from WMI or if WMI guitars come with better setups nowadays.



IIRC they have an in-house tech who goes over all the import guitars before they ship them out.


----------



## Thrav

I liked my legion so much, I’m having the fishman rechargeable battery pack installed. Since it’ll be a while before I pick up a masters, this will be a nice little upgrade as I’m done with these damn battery bs. Lmao.

I’m still considering selling my strandy metal 8 to fund a masters or J. I almost traded it for a J (+ cash) but the guy didn’t like the endurneck. Oh well. I really do like my strand still though.


----------



## millenarianism

Got the issues with my Legion 8 fixed and I’m in love. After spending the weekend with this guitar, I’ve decided to sell my Music Man 7. The Music Man is far better built, obviously, but the comfort and playability with the Legion is undeniable so it will now be my main guitar going forward.


----------



## Thrav

Hopefully more people come into the thread and give us updates on the quality of this line of production.

If Abasi has picked up their quality, it should be known, especially since this thread has evidence of them being subpar.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

millenarianism said:


> Got the issues with my Legion 8 fixed and I’m in love. After spending the weekend with this guitar, I’ve decided to sell my Music Man 7. The Music Man is far better built, obviously, but the comfort and playability with the Legion is undeniable so it will now be my main guitar going forward.



Glad to hear you love it. I’m in the market for a MM Richardson 7. DM me if you’re looking to sell


----------



## Thrav

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Glad to hear you love it. I’m in the market for a MM Richardson 7. DM me if you’re looking to sell



I had one and couldn’t deal with the high E string barley having any fret room. I’d constantly have the string fall off the fretboard while playing. I took it to a luthier to see if there’s anything he could do and he was baffled they would even release guitar like this. Could be just the model I had though.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thrav said:


> I had one and couldn’t deal with the high E string barley having any fret room. I’d constantly have the string fall off the fretboard while playing. I took it to a luthier to see if there’s anything he could do and he was baffled they would even release guitar like this. Could be just the model I had though.



A friend of mine had the same issue with one he tried in a store. His conclusion was that the neck pocket was misaligned with the neck, and there was nothing that could be done about it. You could actually see that the strings weren't aligned when you looked at how they intersected the fret markers.


----------



## cardinal

This is OT I guess but from pics of those guitars, the Richardson 7 has a super narrow heel width and the outer strings are practically on top of just where the fret end was beveled back. Maybe I'm just sloppy but man I would struggle with that. 

Some of the initial Abasi builds (the messed up ones) were similar. I almost bought an 8-string with a Floyd because it's an 8-string with a Floyd, but the strings were way too close to edges of the frets. These newer Abasi builds has more room, but of course no straight scales and Floyd 8s.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

cardinal said:


> This is OT I guess but from pics of those guitars, the Richardson 7 has a super narrow heel width and the outer strings are practically on top of just where the fret end was beveled back. Maybe I'm just sloppy but man I would struggle with that.
> 
> Some of the initial Abasi builds (the messed up ones) were similar. I almost bought an 8-string with a Floyd because it's an 8-string with a Floyd, but the strings were way too close to edges of the frets. These newer Abasi builds has more room, but of course no straight scales and Floyd 8s.



Good point. For the MM JR 7 build I was mentioning, a tech actually inspected it and it was indeed a problem of neck alignment with respect to the body, which was probably due to an error on the factory floor.

I was not aware that old Abasi builds had that problem. Are you referring to the Falbo builds or later builds? My 2018 J Larada 7 doesn't have that issue.


----------



## cardinal

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Good point. For the MM JR 7 build I was mentioning, a tech actually inspected it and it was indeed a problem of neck alignment with respect to the body, which was probably due to an error on the factory floor.
> 
> I was not aware that old Abasi builds had that problem. Are you referring to the Falbo builds or later builds? My 2018 J Larada 7 doesn't have that issue.


Yeah, it was the Falbo builds that seem mostly to have gone to Japan. I don't know how the quality was with those, but I pointed out as soon as I saw the pics that the Falbo build 8s had the strings way too close to the edges. When Abasi relaunched with Jackson and the WMI builds and such, it looks like the problem was fixed.

And to be fair, I've commissioned a number of custom 7s and 8s, and surprisingly I've had to beg the builders to widen the necks. They thought I was crazy to want a neck that wide but I showed them the neck widths on modern Ibanez 7s and 8s and they reluctantly agreed to meet those specs. Don't really get it, but it seems like builders want to default to as close to a 6-string width as they can get, but seriously I need some room there.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

cardinal said:


> Yeah, it was the Falbo builds that seem mostly to have gone to Japan. I don't know how the quality was with those, but I pointed out as soon as I saw the pics that the Falbo build 8s had the strings way too close to the edges. When Abasi relaunched with Jackson and the WMI builds and such, it looks like the problem was fixed.



That’s really surprising. My Falbo 8 (not an Abasi, but very similar in design) does not have that issue in the slightest.


----------



## cardinal

Chris Bowsman said:


> That’s really surprising. My Falbo 8 (not an Abasi, but very similar in design) does not have that issue in the slightest.








that looks less than ideal. Like I said, it's been fixed now and I wouldn't be surprised that Falbo learned not to build them like this going forward.


----------



## narad

cardinal said:


> that looks less than ideal. Like I said, it's been fixed now and I wouldn't be surprised that Falbo learned not to build them like this going forward.



I don't know man, looks pretty close to the current Abasis here:


----------



## Thrav

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> A friend of mine had the same issue with one he tried in a store. His conclusion was that the neck pocket was misaligned with the neck, and there was nothing that could be done about it. You could actually see that the strings weren't aligned when you looked at how they intersected the fret markers.




Yeah that’s exactly what he said


cardinal said:


> that looks less than ideal. Like I said, it's been fixed now and I wouldn't be surprised that Falbo learned not to build them like this going forward.




See that’s ridiculous, how does that even get through QC? Even if you’re pristine with technique, which most are not let’s be real here, that would still be a hinderance.

edit: hmmm maybe it doesn’t feel as bad as it looks. I need to check mine out


----------



## cardinal

narad said:


> I don't know man, looks pretty close to the current Abasis here:



It's hard to judge just from pictures, but that 7 has a meaningful amount of fret past the string. It's tighter than I'd like, for sure, but the 8 in my pic looks just unplayable but maybe I'm just not a good enough guitarist to be worthy of it.


----------



## BigViolin

This might be my biggest guitar design pet peeve. I mean...Ibanez gets this right on their cheapest 8. It's a measurable thing and one of the few things Leo got wrong.


----------



## cardinal

BigViolin said:


> This might be my biggest guitar design pet peeve. I mean...Ibanez gets this right on their cheapest 8. It's a measurable thing and one of the few things Leo got wrong.



Yes, some vintage spec Fenders have this issue as well.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

Don't want to high jack the tread but is it likely all the EBMM Jason models have this issue when it's shown up at least twice? Kind of want one of those but feel a bit deterred now


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The Blue Ghost said:


> Don't want to high jack the tread but is it likely all the EBMM Jason models have this issue when it's shown up at least twice? Kind of want one of those but feel a bit deterred now



I've played a few Richardson 7s and while there definitely isn't a lot of room at the edges of the board it was not at all "unplayable", and I'm not some super precision technician either.


----------



## xzacx

The Blue Ghost said:


> Don't want to high jack the tread but is it likely all the EBMM Jason models have this issue when it's shown up at least twice? Kind of want one of those but feel a bit deterred now



I don't know how much help this is, but I played one at a GC and loved it, but didn't like the look of that particular one, so I found another online to order. It showed up and kinda sucked. No issues with alignment or not having enough room on the board, but the bridge pickup was mounted so close to the strings they were constantly touching the pole pieces and noisy (they couldn't be adjusted), and there was super shoddy routing around the pickups cavities—and I'm not really someone who goes over guitars with a fine toothed comb. It was totally fixable stuff but I din't feel like dealing with it. Point being, of those two, neither had THIS particular issue.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

xzacx said:


> I don't know how much help this is, but I played one at a GC and loved it, but didn't like the look of that particular one, so I found another online to order. It showed up and kinda sucked. No issues with alignment or not having enough room on the board, but the bridge pickup was mounted so close to the strings they were constantly touching the pole pieces and noisy (they couldn't be adjusted), and there was super shoddy routing around the pickups cavities—and I'm not really someone who goes over guitars with a fine toothed comb. It was totally fixable stuff but I din't feel like dealing with it. Point being, of those two, neither had THIS particular issue.


 Thanks for the input! I've loved all the Petrucci models I've tried and felt they've been great quality wise which lead me to GAS for the Richardson one. Hope I can try one out some time though my local shop aren't the most abundant in ERG's


----------



## cardinal

OT but still super surprised they haven't released a solid color Richardson yet.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

What was the price on the Space T on the last drop? There's one up on reverb for $4k which obviously can't be right


----------



## narad

xzacx said:


> I don't know how much help this is, but I played one at a GC and loved it, but didn't like the look of that particular one, so I found another online to order. It showed up and kinda sucked. No issues with alignment or not having enough room on the board, but the bridge pickup was mounted so close to the strings they were constantly touching the pole pieces and noisy (they couldn't be adjusted), and there was super shoddy routing around the pickups cavities—and I'm not really someone who goes over guitars with a fine toothed comb. It was totally fixable stuff but I din't feel like dealing with it. Point being, of those two, neither had THIS particular issue.



Damn, I thought EBMM was one of those brands you didn't have to worry about QC with. Wonder if the dealer could have messed it up any, but then again, wouldn't explain the routing. Though it was a burl top? Sometimes good CNC routines just come out looking lame when they're pushing through burly mush wood.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> Damn, I thought EBMM was one of those brands you didn't have to worry about QC with. Wonder if the dealer could have messed it up any, but then again, wouldn't explain the routing. Though it was a burl top? Sometimes good CNC routines just come out looking lame when they're pushing through burly mush wood.



EBMM has been a little shaky the last five or six years. Not bad, still one of the better brands, but not as slick.


----------



## CW7

cardinal said:


> Yeah, it was the Falbo builds that seem mostly to have gone to Japan. I don't know how the quality was with those, but I pointed out as soon as I saw the pics that the Falbo build 8s had the strings way too close to the edges. When Abasi relaunched with Jackson and the WMI builds and such, it looks like the problem was fixed.
> 
> And to be fair, I've commissioned a number of custom 7s and 8s, and surprisingly I've had to beg the builders to widen the necks. They thought I was crazy to want a neck that wide but I showed them the neck widths on modern Ibanez 7s and 8s and they reluctantly agreed to meet those specs. Don't really get it, but it seems like builders want to default to as close to a 6-string width as they can get, but seriously I need some room there.


One of my favorite things Rick Toone does I have on my custom 8 ; he has a patented neck design that flares out as it approaches the treble register/upper frets, so you have AMPLE room for tapping, vibrato, etc… once you play that it’s hard to go back to a “Regular” neck. It feels cramped. (At least it’s hard to me to go back).


----------



## CW7

rohanranjan said:


> What was the price on the Space T on the last drop? There's one up on reverb for $4k which obviously can't be right


They were 4k iirc. (3799 or 3999 plus shipping).


----------



## The Blue Ghost

MaxOfMetal said:


> EBMM has been a little shaky the last five or six years. Not bad, still one of the better brands, but not as slick.


I wonder why? Maybe they've changed something like staff or factory? Have always thought they were fantastic quality wise when I've tried them out


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The Blue Ghost said:


> I wonder why? Maybe they've changed something like staff or factory? Have always thought they were fantastic quality wise when I've tried them out



The complexity of thier lineup has increased significantly in that time, so I'm guessing it's just a case of being a little too busy and behind the gun on production to put as much care in. 

I mean, they JP range used to be like three guitars in five colors, it's now like six guitars in fifteen colors, not including spot runs.


----------



## xzacx

narad said:


> Damn, I thought EBMM was one of those brands you didn't have to worry about QC with. Wonder if the dealer could have messed it up any, but then again, wouldn't explain the routing. Though it was a burl top? Sometimes good CNC routines just come out looking lame when they're pushing through burly mush wood.



I don't think it was on the dealer, I think the pickups just weren't mounted deep enough and since they weren't adjustable, it was basically unplayable. Totally fixable, but I just didn't like it enough to deal with it. I do think the nature of burl was exactly what happened with the routes too. The business of the top hid it well, but when you looked close it was very sloppy. Not the best pic but I think you can get an idea.


----------



## narad

xzacx said:


> I don't think it was on the dealer, I think the pickups just weren't mounted deep enough and since they weren't adjustable, it was basically unplayable. Totally fixable, but I just didn't like it enough to deal with it. I do think the nature of burl was exactly what happened with the routes too. The business of the top hid it well, but when you looked close it was very sloppy. Not the best pic but I think you can get an idea.



Yup, definitely seen that sort of stuff on a burl or two (looking at you, ViK)


----------



## TheHardwareChap

O


CW7 said:


> They were 4k iirc. (3799 or 3999 plus shipping).


Oh interesting. Now I gotta figure out if I want it more than this Mystic Dream


----------



## The Blue Ghost

MaxOfMetal said:


> The complexity of thier lineup has increased significantly in that time, so I'm guessing it's just a case of being a little too busy and behind the gun on production to put as much care in.
> 
> I mean, they JP range used to be like three guitars in five colors, it's now like six guitars in fifteen colors, not including spot runs.


That's true, the JP's are basically one whole separate brand at this point


----------



## StevenC

CW7 said:


> One of my favorite things Rick Toone does I have on my custom 8 ; he has a patented neck design that flares out as it approaches the treble register/upper frets, so you have AMPLE room for tapping, vibrato, etc… once you play that it’s hard to go back to a “Regular” neck. It feels cramped. (At least it’s hard to me to go back).


I think Gittlers had that feature.


----------



## Thrav

Upgraded my legion to have the rechargeable batt pack. Can’t wait to only deal with one guitar that needs 9vs now


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

cardinal said:


> OT but still super surprised they haven't released a solid color Richardson yet.



For my tastes, EBMM aren’t great in the color department. I dislike the aesthetics of most of their JP builds. How about a black JP15 with ebony fretboard?!? Or just solid colors? It’s a no brainer to me…



MaxOfMetal said:


> The complexity of thier lineup has increased significantly in that time, so I'm guessing it's just a case of being a little too busy and behind the gun on production to put as much care in.
> 
> I mean, they JP range used to be like three guitars in five colors, it's now like six guitars in fifteen colors, not including spot runs.



Talked to an EBMM rep as well as to one of their factory floor techs in 2019. At that time, they decided to discontinue many models on the JP line (e.g. JPXI) only to keep their flagship JP15. The reason they gave me were along the lines to what you’re saying. Without mentioning QC issues, they said it got to the point where they had a hard time with the logistics of having so many models (wood types, neck profiles, etc).


----------



## TheHardwareChap

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> For my tastes, EBMM aren’t great in the color department. I dislike the aesthetics of most of their JP builds. How about a black JP15 with ebony fretboard?!? Or just solid colors? It’s a no brainer to me…
> 
> 
> 
> Talked to an EBMM rep as well as to one of their factory floor techs in 2019. At that time, they decided to discontinue many models on the JP line (e.g. JPXI) only to keep their flagship JP15. The reason they gave me were along the lines to what you’re saying. Without mentioning QC issues, they said it got to the point where they had a hard time with the logistics of having so many models (wood types, neck profiles, etc).



Black with ebony fretboard you say: https://reverb.com/item/43938999?ut...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=43938999


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

rohanranjan said:


> Black with ebony fretboard you say: https://reverb.com/item/43938999?ut...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=43938999



Yeah, saw that and tried to buy one.

Eddie’s Guitar exclusive, no 7 string, US only.


----------



## Meh

Thrav said:


> Upgraded my legion to have the rechargeable batt pack. Can’t wait to only deal with one guitar that needs 9vs now



How much did that run you if you don’t mind me asking?

Considering doing this to my Legion as well.


----------



## Thrav

Meh said:


> How much did that run you if you don’t mind me asking?
> 
> Considering doing this to my Legion as well.




100$ for the battery and 105$ for the install from a local Luthier I know. Was well worth the money considering how many batteries I’ve gone through within the last 3 months.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Thrav said:


> 100$ for the battery and 105$ for the install from a local Luthier I know. Was well worth the money considering how many batteries I’ve gone through within the last 3 months.



Do you leave the guitar plugged in? There's no chance you should be running through a single battery even with like daily +4hr practice sessions. The battery install is a great idea honestly, I've put maybe 50 hours into my guitar with Fishmans that has the pack this year and haven't had to recharge it once. So while there's utility the power draw is so minor that I probably wouldn't spend the money to mod a guitar with one.


----------



## Thrav

Jonathan20022 said:


> Do you leave the guitar plugged in? There's no chance you should be running through a single battery even with like daily +4hr practice sessions. The battery install is a great idea honestly, I've put maybe 50 hours into my guitar with Fishmans that has the pack this year and haven't had to recharge it once. So while there's utility the power draw is so minor that I probably wouldn't spend the money to mod a guitar with one.


Oh no I don’t leave it plugged in. I play 6-8 hours a day depending on how my hands feel. It depends on the batteries you buy too. Quality is for sure a thing with batteries. Unless I want to keep buying the top brand 9vs they drain pretty frequently. I’ve also come across a lot of duds not outputting the correct v’s.

It’s just a waste to keep running through batteries like this. 200$ is worth it for me given the expense and not contributing to battery waste.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Yeah definitely the good stuff can be pretty pricey, thankfully the lithium Fishman supplies is incredibly efficient. You won't need to plug it in very often if not for just 10 - 15 minutes once a year


----------



## Thrav

Jonathan20022 said:


> Yeah definitely the good stuff can be pretty pricey, thankfully the lithium Fishman supplies is incredibly efficient. You won't need to plug it in very often if not for just 10 - 15 minutes once a year



Thats really crazy to hear, it says in the manual good for 250+ hrs use but found it hard to believe. Lol


----------



## Jonathan20022

Yeah haha, I play my 060 a ton but I've had it for I think 2 years and a half and I think I've plugged it in thrice so far.


----------



## Thrav

Jonathan20022 said:


> Yeah haha, I play my 060 a ton but I've had it for I think 2 years and a half and I think I've plugged it in thrice so far.



Damn I just received an update on my 060S






https://imgur.com/a/vQwCyaz


----------



## Chris Bowsman

$100 to install a Fluence battery?? I’m in the wrong line of work. 

I’ve had my Falbo for over a year, play it a lot, and I’ve charged it a few times. It’s never died, I just plug it in every few months just because. 

The Fluence battery is totally worth it, as I can leave the guitar plugged in the whole time I’m restringing, tweaking the setup, or whatever, and never have that OCD nagging about killing a 9V.


----------



## Thrav

Chris Bowsman said:


> $100 to install a Fluence battery?? I’m in the wrong line of work.
> 
> I’ve had my Falbo for over a year, play it a lot, and I’ve charged it a few times. It’s never died, I just plug it in every few months just because.
> 
> The Fluence battery is totally worth it, as I can leave the guitar plugged in the whole time I’m restringing, tweaking the setup, or whatever, and never have that OCD nagging about killing a 9V.



Well he had to create a whole new back plate with shielding so the cost of materials was apart of it. I checked my local guitar shop and they quoted me double. 

and I don’t trust guitar center to do it so I didn’t even ask them. 


Good to hear the battery life is as good as it claims !


----------



## Chris Bowsman

Thrav said:


> Well he had to create a whole new back plate with shielding so the cost of materials was apart of it. I checked my local guitar shop and they quoted me double.



Fair enough. $100 or $200, you'll be thrilled with the results regardless. Any active instruments I get in the future will get one.


----------



## SCJR

Question to anyone that is buying these, how do you like the Abasi pickups? I know Fluences are not generally well regarded around here from what I've seen.


----------



## Thrav

SCJR said:


> Question to anyone that is buying these, how do you like the Abasi pickups? I know Fluences are not generally well regarded around here from what I've seen.



I love moderns, I feel they get way to much hate and I believe a lot of it comes from parroting others. I doubt everyone who claims to not like them has even tried them. They’re the first active pups I liked.

The Abasi pups are one of the main reasons I love my Abasi. By far my favorite of the fishman series.


----------



## SCJR

Thrav said:


> I love moderns, I feel they get way to much hate and I believe a lot of it comes from parroting others. I doubt everyone who claims to not like them has even tried them. They’re the first active pups I liked.
> 
> The Abasi pups are one of the main reasons I love my Abasi. By far my favorite of the fishman series.



I have a set of modern 7's myself but lately I've been kinda down on them. I've heard something to the effect that they improved the moderns at some point a few years ago and if that was the case I wonder if mine were before that was done. They sound good and are practical in several ways but I'm falling out of love with them.


----------



## Chris Bowsman

SCJR said:


> Question to anyone that is buying these, how do you like the Abasi pickups? I know Fluences are not generally well regarded around here from what I've seen.



I went through a period where I didn't like the Abasis. Tried some other pickups, then went back to them, and I can't understand what I didn't like. Maybe I was using the wrong gauge strings, or something other than NYXLs, but they're great.


----------



## Thrav

SCJR said:


> I have a set of modern 7's myself but lately I've been kinda down on them. I've heard something to the effect that they improved the moderns at some point a few years ago and if that was the case I wonder if mine were before that was done. They sound good and are practical in several ways but I'm falling out of love with them.




I mean in my experience, I always have periods of not like pups I use to. Sometimes you do just need a new set to play around with and find new ideas. Then go back to what you’d liked before and see what you liked so much about them.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

SCJR said:


> Question to anyone that is buying these, how do you like the Abasi pickups? I know Fluences are not generally well regarded around here from what I've seen.



I've grown to dislike the moderns (had them for 3 years on 3 guitars) but I absolutely love the Abasis. At the end of the day, you have to try them yourself, i.e. pickup choice comes down to personnal tastes. Sidenote: I've always used NYXL strings with them.


----------



## CW7

SCJR said:


> Question to anyone that is buying these, how do you like the Abasi pickups? I know Fluences are not generally well regarded around here from what I've seen.


I like Abasis a lot. Also a fan of the classics. Not a moderns fan. They’re a bit too narrowly focused for me and what I do.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Looking for people who have a Space T or have played a Space T. I have an Master Series 8 and love the neck. Is the Space T neck similar in terms of shape?


----------



## Cockandballs

I have all of the models. The space t is pretty much like a fender tele ultra. So c shape, narrow but modern fe. The master 8 is really flat so they are not anything alike. The master 6 is a bigger rebounder neck like a Jackson which is not similar either. Then the Js are asymmetrical (which are the best ones I think)


----------



## BradleyAllan

Cockandballs said:


> I have all of the models. The space t is pretty much like a fender tele ultra. So c shape, narrow but modern fe. The master 8 is really flat so they are not anything alike. The master 6 is a bigger rebounder neck like a Jackson which is not similar either. Then the Js are asymmetrical (which are the best ones I think)



Cool thanks man! Really dig the neck on the Master Series 8! Any 6 string guitar recommendations with a similar neck?


----------



## Cockandballs

From my perspective. An Ibanez jem or rg. Their wizard neck from like the late 90s. Way thin.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Cockandballs said:


> From my perspective. An Ibanez jem or rg. Their wizard neck from like the late 90s. Way thin.


Thanks man!


----------



## TheHardwareChap

For anyone interested, Brian's guitars has a Spartan available: https://briansguitars.com/products/used-abasi-black


----------



## Yreva

Hi Guys,
Without spending the next two days digging through these threads can anyone please tell me where the Master and Spartan series guitars are made? I’ve seen pictures of a few that say California USA on the headstock, so I assume that’s where…but none say “made in California USA.” Also if manufactured in California, where and by whom? The Abasi website is somewhat ambiguous and not responsive to inquiries.
Thanks,
Mark


----------



## Thrav

Yreva said:


> Hi Guys,
> Without spending the next two days digging through these threads can anyone please tell me where the Master and Spartan series guitars are made? I’ve seen pictures of a few that say California USA on the headstock, so I assume that’s where…but none say “made in California USA.” Also if manufactured in California, where and by whom? The Abasi website is somewhat ambiguous and not responsive to inquiries.
> Thanks,
> Mark



They are made by Grover Jackson, in Laguna Hills, California.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

As per the website, it looks like 6/8 String masters are going to drop soon


----------



## Thrav

rohanranjan said:


> As per the website, it looks like 6/8 String masters are going to drop soon



Nice, right when I’m broke lmao


----------



## Andromeda02

Hi everyone, 
Has anybody ever tried putting passive pickups in Abasi Laradas? seems that company like Ormsby and Bare Knuckle are providing slanted base plate for fanfret guitars. Will these thing work on laradas, matching the pickup screws with each strings? I remember saw someone successfully modded Fishmans equipped Strandberg 8 with passives but I cannot recall the details.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

One of the custom carbon fiber ones are available on reverb!


----------



## Aaron Leeman

rohanranjan said:


> One of the custom carbon fiber ones are available on reverb!


And now a 2019 Legion with some minor defects, but still looking good, + the recurring pink sparkle space-T


----------



## sleep51

Anybody got a newsletter yet? Getting quite close to the release of the new masters tomorrow and I’m wondering whether something‘s wrong with my email sign-up


----------



## Aaron Leeman

sleep51 said:


> Anybody got a newsletter yet? Getting quite close to the release of the new masters tomorrow and I’m wondering whether something‘s wrong with my email sign-up


Should be in the next few hours, I think maybe 3-6 hours from here?


----------



## sleep51

Aaron Leeman said:


> Should be in the next few hours, I think maybe 3-6 hours from here?


thank you! This is the first time I’ve been in a position to be part of the release window and between not being around before and being in a different time zone I was stressing about the idea of missing the drop  the new guitars shared on social media look pretty special. Hopefully there’ll be something I like and I can move quickly enough to get my first larada.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Newsletter finnaly went out. 6s and 8s dropping. Some pretty cool stuff


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Yeah, I loved the zebrawood one tosin posted the other day, I'm glad to see the more natural raw looking builds coming back after so long lol


----------



## NCeuRign

That 6 looks nice but it's too similar to my current one. I'm still tempted though.


----------



## Cockandballs

I want the Abasi guitar stand in the newsletter photo


----------



## NCeuRign

I've got a really nice D&A Starfish+ stand but unfortunately it doesn't quite fit a Master 8.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

NCeuRign said:


> That 6 looks nice but it's too similar to my current one. I'm still tempted though.


I mean, if you wanna buy it and donate the current one, I'm open to chat


----------



## TheHardwareChap

NCeuRign said:


> That 6 looks nice but it's too similar to my current one. I'm still tempted though.



Did you get the burst on the last drop? Looks like three colors this time. Luna, amber and emerald


----------



## NCeuRign

Yeah I got the "custom flame burst"
https://abasiconcepts.com/products/larada-6-custom-flame-burst


----------



## TheHardwareChap

NCeuRign said:


> Yeah I got the "custom flame burst"
> https://abasiconcepts.com/products/larada-6-custom-flame-burst


Looks similar without the white binding. This one will probably have stainless steel frets


----------



## Cockandballs

got the nike bots ready to snag another mystic dream.


----------



## StevenC

I wonder how the Larada sits in a Strandberg stand. Anyone tried it?


----------



## Cockandballs

StevenC said:


> I wonder how the Larada sits in a Strandberg stand. Anyone tried it?


yes, it's a garbage stand and does not sit right unless you angel it weird. strandberg is generally garbage. I tried one of the Japanese ones because everyone raved about it, and it had just bad qc issues, uneven frets, etc. I really hope the Abasi stand from the newsletter is available.


----------



## NCeuRign

Nickel frets on the 6 are enough to prevent me getting one. The only difference to mine are therefore the tuners. I was hoping for stainless, in which case I would have bought.


----------



## danbox

Mystic dream sold out immediately - I wonder how many there were


----------



## Lordcephid

Cockandballs said:


> got the nike bots ready to snag another mystic dream.



so did you snag the mystic dream? was looking out for the zebrawood but doesnt seem to pop out


----------



## Cockandballs

yup


Lordcephid said:


> so did you snag the mystic dream? was looking out for the zebrawood but doesnt seem to pop out


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Lordcephid said:


> so did you snag the mystic dream? was looking out for the zebrawood but doesnt seem to pop out


yea doesn't look like it's there??


----------



## Lordcephid

Aaron Leeman said:


> yea doesn't look like it's there??


yeah? i thought they said it was gonna drop.. was super curious about the pricepoint of it


----------



## Cockandballs

did not see it either, they lag in uploading sometimes. this was a weird one because my bot triggered from the master page and not the home page.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Lordcephid said:


> yeah? i thought they said it was gonna drop.. was super curious about the pricepoint of it


Ikr, was looking forward to a natural finish type guitar


----------



## Lordcephid

Cockandballs said:


> did not see it either, they lag in uploading sometimes. this was a weird one because my bot triggered from the master page and not the home page.



I'm looking from the master page as well. their homepage doesn't show the full drops and only the latest 4 apparently


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Cockandballs said:


> did not see it either, they lag in uploading sometimes. this was a weird one because my bot triggered from the master page and not the home page.


Yeah maybe it'll drop in the next few mins


----------



## Cockandballs

its also the longest an 8 string has been available, 12 minutes selenite is still available...think this is the year they may have peaked with this drop method.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Cockandballs said:


> its also the longest an 8 string has been available, 12 minutes selenite is still available...think this is the year they may have peaked with this drop method.


idk dude, the legions lasted AGESSS, I think the osteon 8 lasted nearly a week iirc lol


----------



## Cockandballs

Aaron Leeman said:


> idk dude, the legions lasted AGESSS, I think the osteon 8 lasted nearly a week iirc lol


yeah but these are normally one or two per guitar in most instances. legions they do about 25, 40 or 50 per colour depending on how you order from Korea.


----------



## Cockandballs

...I'd recommend setting up a nike bot for the zebra wood...I don't like those kind of unfinished guitars, lots of work in maintaining them.


----------



## sleep51

danbox said:


> Mystic dream sold out immediately - I wonder how many there were


One of each guitar right?

Got the champagne- over the moon, aside from the slightly sore bank account
​


----------



## Hollowway

What were the prices on the 8s this round?


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Hollowway said:


> What were the prices on the 8s this round?


Around $3599, B-stock black beauty was $3499


----------



## Cockandballs

Hollowway said:


> What were the prices on the 8s this round?


3899


----------



## Cockandballs

3899 for the mystic dreamland atura green


----------



## Lordcephid

I was mentioning it to my uncle as well that strangely this time round the Master series isn't going out as fast as it was. In the past, if you couldn't get it within the first 2 minutes MAX, you'd have no chance of getting ANY at all.. Maybe the prices are holding people back now?


----------



## Lordcephid

sleep51 said:


> One of each guitar right?
> 
> Got the champagne- over the moon, aside from the slightly sore bank account
> ​



There are times when a particular paintjob has more than 1 actually.. I think it happened with the Black Beauty couple of drops ago where a guy here got 1 but then there was another that was listed on reverb


----------



## Cockandballs

lol I had to tell my nike bots to stop, I had multiple which never happens


----------



## NCeuRign

sleep51 said:


> One of each guitar right?



Usually a couple. Both of mine in previous drops I wasn't the only one to get it.


----------



## Hollowway

Aaron Leeman said:


> Around $3599, B-stock black beauty was $3499


Dang, through a strange combination of evens Tosin ended up timing the release of his guitar well. Who would have guessed at $3600-$3900 guitars would sell out almost immediately in the middle of a pandemic, lol. As much as I want one of these, I’m probably going to have to wait for used prices to settle. To at least the level of new prices.


----------



## BradleyAllan

I was trying to cop that Zebra Wood Master 8 and it never dropped. Bet one of Tosin’s homies hit him and they pulled it.


----------



## Lordcephid

Cockandballs said:


> ...I'd recommend setting up a nike bot for the zebra wood...I don't like those kind of unfinished guitars, lots of work in maintaining them.



isn't it quite expensive to have these bots?


----------



## Cockandballs

I declined both of these after getting the mystic dream but the bot literally had the ones I wanted available without issue. anybody get the relic or the weird green one?


----------



## Cockandballs

Lordcephid said:


> isn't it quite expensive to have these bots?


not for this site, if you were buying shoes, yes (I don't buy shoes). It's based on traffic to the page.


----------



## Lordcephid

Cockandballs said:


> not for this site, if you were buying shoes, yes (I don't buy shoes). It's based on traffic to the page.



oh, curious which one do you use?


----------



## Cockandballs

Lordcephid said:


> oh, curious which one do you use?


Kickmoji


----------



## avastcosmicarena

Super lame of them to specifically say they were going to post the Zebrawood guitar for sale in the newsletter email and then never even post it.


----------



## Cockandballs

avastcosmicarena said:


> Super lame of them to specifically say they were going to post the Zebrawood guitar for sale in the newsletter email and then never even post it.


...I'd wait, they do randomly drop throughout the day. they had three drop about 6 hours after the last drop.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Cockandballs said:


> I declined both of these after getting the mystic dream but the bot literally had the ones I wanted available without issue. anybody get the relic or the weird green one?


Congrats on the Mystic Dream man! That one looks soooo dope with the maple fretboard.


----------



## avastcosmicarena

Cockandballs said:


> ...I'd wait, they do randomly drop throughout the day. they had three drop about 6 hours after the last drop.



Yikes. I don't have a bot and can't sit around refreshing for 6 hours lol


----------



## Taylord

When do you think Abasi will start doing bigger runs and making it easier for people to buy them? Is it just a business model to keep demand and supply tight or just limitations of a small new company?


----------



## Hollowway

Taylord said:


> Is it just a business model to keep demand and supply tight or just limitations of a small new company?


Yes. 

I would expect that the Legions could scale up pretty easily, but the Master series is limited by what Grover can handle. They could scale up, but it would involve significant changes in his shop, I suspect, so they’d want to make sure the market could bear it. If these were readily available people wouldn’t be so motivated to buy them as soon as they can, so this mode is working exceptionally well for them at the moment.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Two of the master 6s are still available


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Taylord said:


> Abasi will start...making it easier for people to buy them?



Never.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Whoa. Just realized that the Master 6s have nickel frets and not stainless steel like the previous drop


----------



## NCeuRign

Yeah. With mine (two drops ago) I bought it click click without reading, in the usual panic. And then noticed after it had nickel frets. I didn't notice it didn't have hipshot tuners either. Those were my two minor disappointments. I would have bought a 6 this time again if it were stainless


----------



## TheHardwareChap

NCeuRign said:


> Yeah. With mine (two drops ago) I bought it click click without reading, in the usual panic. And then noticed after it had nickel frets. I didn't notice it didn't have hipshot tuners either. Those were my two minor disappointments. I would have bought a 6 this time again if it were stainless


Interesting. My mystic dream 6 has SS frets. Wonder why they keep switching stuff around


----------



## Cockandballs

BradleyAllan said:


> Congrats on the Mystic Dream man! That one looks soooo dope with the maple fretboard.





rohanranjan said:


> Interesting. My mystic dream 6 has SS frets. Wonder why they keep switching stuff around


 supply chain. Grover keeps on hand what he uses and does not stockpile anything. That’s why you see the same options for the most part.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Cockandballs said:


> supply chain. Grover keeps on hand what he uses and does not stockpile anything. That’s why you see the same options for the most part.



Sucks that they cost the same with nickel frets and abasi tuners


----------



## NCeuRign

To be honest the hipshot tuners look really cool but perform worse.


----------



## Cockandballs

Who makes the “Abasi” tuners?


----------



## NCeuRign

Mine have no other branding on them besides "Abasi"


----------



## NCeuRign

Actually looking at the hipshot page they may well be hipshot brand. There is a similarity or two.

And I got suckered into ordering some new buttons for my 6 despite my comment before. Hipshot calls them "industrial". Hopefully they fit


----------



## BradleyAllan

Cockandballs said:


> Who makes the “Abasi” tuners?


They’re made by hipshot. I did a full gold hardware upgrade. The sell the knurled knobs separate.


----------



## BradleyAllan

NCeuRign said:


> Actually looking at the hipshot page they may well be hipshot brand. There is a similarity or two.
> 
> And I got suckered into ordering some new buttons for my 6 despite my comment before. Hipshot calls them "industrial". Hopefully they fit


They’re the hipshot open locking tuners with the knurled knobs separate


----------



## BradleyAllan

Tosin kept the Zebra Wood Master 8 for himself.


----------



## NCeuRign

Deleted


----------



## millenarianism

Are the Abasi tuners on the Legions worth replacing? I'm tempted.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

NCeuRign said:


> Yeah. With mine (two drops ago) I bought it click click without reading, in the usual panic. And then noticed after it had nickel frets. I didn't notice it didn't have hipshot tuners either. Those were my two minor disappointments. I would have bought a 6 this time again if it were stainless


Uh so... They updated the listings and all of the Master 6s have stainless steel frets... Actually they just updated your custom's listing with SS frets... https://abasiconcepts.com/collections/master-series/products/larada-6-custom-flame-burst


----------



## NCeuRign

Lmao wtf. So someone was reading this thread. Seems I need to do a closer inspection.

@millenarianism the knurled barrel tuner pegs just look cool but from an engineering perspective you have better fine control over a wider traditional peg. However I'm still converting to "look cool"


----------



## Hollowway

BradleyAllan said:


> Tosin kept the Zebra Wood Master 8 for himself.


Seriously, or joking? It's cool if he did, I just don't know if you're joking, lol.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Hollowway said:


> Seriously, or joking? It's cool if he did, I just don't know if you're joking, lol.


Pretty sure it's a joke, don't worry lol


----------



## BradleyAllan

Hollowway said:


> Seriously, or joking? It's cool if he did, I just don't know if you're joking, lol.


Yeah I asked on the Abasi Concepts IG and Tosin replied that he kept it for himself.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CYz1jLLJktW/?utm_medium=copy_link


----------



## Aaron Leeman

BradleyAllan said:


> Yeah I asked on the Abasi Concepts IG and Tosin replied that he kept it for himself.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/CYz1jLLJktW/?utm_medium=copy_link


Dang then I think we can expect to see it on a later drop then?


----------



## CW7

I’m just gonna toss this out there ; I’ve bought numerous Abasis on drops and have never needed a bot. If any of you are still striking out I’m happy to help you in DM. (I had a mystic dream cued up in cart and passed at the last minutes). Hope y’all got what you were after this time.


----------



## CW7

Lordcephid said:


> isn't it quite expensive to have these bots?


 You don’t need a bot. I’ve had like 8+ I’ve scored from drops and never needed a bot.


----------



## BradleyAllan

CW7 said:


> You don’t need a bot. I’ve had like 8+ I’ve scored from drops and never needed a bot.


Yeah I agree with this. You just need your CC info cued up so it’s more or less one click paying.


----------



## BradleyAllan

Aaron Leeman said:


> Dang then I think we can expect to see it on a later drop then?


Maybe but I wouldn’t count on it. That one def stood out and we’ve been asking them to do more natural builds so hopefully they’ll take the cue that people are definitely interested in those. I think allot people were trying to grab that one.


----------



## pterodaniel

CW7 said:


> I’m just gonna toss this out there ; I’ve bought numerous Abasis on drops and have never needed a bot. If any of you are still striking out I’m happy to help you in DM. (I had a mystic dream cued up in cart and passed at the last minutes). Hope y’all got what you were after this time.


 do you have an 8 for sale?


----------



## pterodaniel

Does anyone know how much the J-Larada 8 sold for new?


----------



## pterodaniel

pterodaniel said:


> Does anyone know how much the J-Larada 8 sold for new?


Also if anyone is selling any 8 strings, I'm interested! tried to get a yellow master series on Sunday and it was gone by the time I checked out. I must have been close because my bank processed the payment and reversed it...


----------



## BradleyAllan

pterodaniel said:


> Does anyone know how much the J-Larada 8 sold for new?


The J Larada would be similar pricing to the Master Series 8.


----------



## Cockandballs

…on the bots. You definitely don’t need then. But they give you a solid head start with no checkout issue. I just get a phone notification on when they are live and click basically yes or no. But I bought my last one. Unless they do a headless I’m not gonna buy one. 

…here are the old prices from Instagram. I have to admit. They are starting to get ridiculous. They’ve gone up a lot. $3499 to $3899 and $2999 to $3499. Unless someone can tell me the difference between a master and a spartan. I bought a j8 way early on and I think it was $2999 after Namm their first real year. (can’t remember) Still like all of mine. But…it’s gonna come to a head on this price increase


----------



## sleep51

Cockandballs said:


> …on the bots. You definitely don’t need then. But they give you a solid head start with no checkout issue. I just get a phone notification on when they are live and click basically yes or no. But I bought my last one. Unless they do a headless I’m not gonna buy one.
> 
> …here are the old prices from Instagram. I have to admit. They are starting to get ridiculous. They’ve gone up a lot. $3499 to $3899 and $2999 to $3499. Unless someone can tell me the difference between a master and a spartan. I bought a j8 way early on and I think it was $2999 after Namm their first real year. (can’t remember) Still like all of mine. But…it’s gonna come to a head on this price increase




Well for one, the Spartans aren’t multiscale/ fanned frets, correct?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

sleep51 said:


> Well for one, the Spartans aren’t multiscale/ fanned frets, correct?



Neither are the master series 6s


----------



## sleep51

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Neither are the master series 6s



I see, I hadn’t even looked at the 6 specs honestly. Beats me then


----------



## Lordcephid

CW7 said:


> You don’t need a bot. I’ve had like 8+ I’ve scored from drops and never needed a bot.



Well I did score mine without a bot as well but that was kinda interesting cause using a bot never would have occurred to me.


----------



## CW7

BradleyAllan said:


> Yeah I agree with this. You just need your CC info cued up so it’s more or less one click paying.


Exactly .


----------



## CW7

Lordcephid said:


> Well I did score mine without a bot as well but that was kinda interesting cause using a bot never would have occurred to me.


I honestly think the bot thing is overblown. I’ve bought one at every drop , AND gotten the one I wanted (I usually have a first choice and then a backup or two). As long as you plan ahead you’re good to go (also as aside, every one has been on my phone. Never used a computer before ).


----------



## Thrav

Anyone snipe a masters 8?


----------



## sleep51

Thrav said:


> Anyone snipe a masters 8?


I got mine yesterday and it’s pretty great so far- no QC issues at all and super playable, probably more so than my JP6 which has been my benchmark for many years


----------



## bassisace

sleep51 said:


> I got mine yesterday and it’s pretty great so far- no QC issues at all and super playable, probably more so than my JP6 which has been my benchmark for many years



I think 99.9% of reported QC issues were with Legions.


----------



## chasingtheclown

I got my master series recently and was quite disappointed. Sent it back, this was not the b stock version either. Mainly with bass side of the rich lite board and some markings one of which was in the bass side of the 12th fret. Call me picky but I didn’t think this was acceptable for a 4K instrument. Also noticed they changed the cases this time around on the master series almost like the ones they use on the legions. Played a few master series in the past and were great so I just guess I got unlucky with mine. Just a bit bummed out with the situation.


----------



## thebeesknees22

chasingtheclown said:


> I got my master series recently and was quite disappointed. Sent it back, this was not the b stock version either. Mainly with bass side of the rich lite board and some markings one of which was in the bass side of the 12th fret. Call me picky but I didn’t think this was acceptable for a 4K instrument. Also noticed they changed the cases this time around on the master series almost like the ones they use on the legions. Played a few master series in the past and were great so I just guess I got unlucky with mine. Just a bit bummed out with the situation.




wow, that's.... pretty shocking on a $4k instrument. What the heck.


----------



## CanserDYI

chasingtheclown said:


> I got my master series recently and was quite disappointed. Sent it back, this was not the b stock version either. Mainly with bass side of the rich lite board and some markings one of which was in the bass side of the 12th fret. Call me picky but I didn’t think this was acceptable for a 4K instrument. Also noticed they changed the cases this time around on the master series almost like the ones they use on the legions. Played a few master series in the past and were great so I just guess I got unlucky with mine. Just a bit bummed out with the situation.


Not going to lie, I'd be pretty pissed off about those marks on my 4 HUNDRED dollar instrument, let alone a 4 thousand dollar one....


----------



## jephjacques

Wouldn't be the first time they shipped a Master series with glaring flaws.


----------



## Lordcephid

bassisace said:


> I think 99.9% of reported QC issues were with Legions.



Not true... I got mine Master in late 2020 and had major QC issues on mine and came on to the forum to find that there were a bunch of other people who had QC issues with their Master Series


----------



## Lordcephid

chasingtheclown said:


> I got my master series recently and was quite disappointed. Sent it back, this was not the b stock version either. Mainly with bass side of the rich lite board and some markings one of which was in the bass side of the 12th fret. Call me picky but I didn’t think this was acceptable for a 4K instrument. Also noticed they changed the cases this time around on the master series almost like the ones they use on the legions. Played a few master series in the past and were great so I just guess I got unlucky with mine. Just a bit bummed out with the situation.



that's pretty unfortunate.. I wasn't exactly happy with mine as well had a couple of marks around the fretboard as well. So does seem like it's still a hit and miss with the Master Series QC.


----------



## Thrav

bassisace said:


> I think 99.9% of reported QC issues were with Legions.




Was just going to post last night responding to this but forgot.

Ive had 3 local friends 2 Js and a Masters. The masters needed to be sent back for an entirely new nut as it was literally cracked, and one of the J needed fret leveling.

It doesn’t seem to be an issue with Legions as it’s just an Abasi issue. They’re going through some growing pains im thinking.


----------



## NCeuRign

As a counterpoint my master 8 and custom 6 have been fine. Couple of really really really minor things


----------



## Thrav

NCeuRign said:


> As a counterpoint my master 8 and custom 6 have been fine. Couple of really really really minor things



Great to hear. The reason to point out QC issues isn’t to bash Abasi, it’s to warn people what the risking. It also will (hopefully) be seen by Abasi themselves and be corrected for.

It’s totally fair for us to be critical of a 4.5$ guitar with QC issues like the poster above. I mean those pics… that’s absolutely unacceptable and it baffles me how a _master series's_ guitar could have gotten through QC people.

It doesn’t mean people should write Abasi off it just means we need to speak openly about it so it will be fixed.

4500$ could fund a custom build which would have far less risk of QC problems, such as Aristides which probably has the best track record of high quality instruments.


----------



## sleep51

chasingtheclown said:


> I got my master series recently and was quite disappointed. Sent it back, this was not the b stock version either. Mainly with bass side of the rich lite board and some markings one of which was in the bass side of the 12th fret. Call me picky but I didn’t think this was acceptable for a 4K instrument. Also noticed they changed the cases this time around on the master series almost like the ones they use on the legions. Played a few master series in the past and were great so I just guess I got unlucky with mine. Just a bit bummed out with the situation.



Phew that’s awful.. how did that get sent out? 
Mine is the champagne with maple fretboard and there are no flaws nor are there any on the neck joint, nut is as normal, no paint chipping etc. I’ll get some qc pics up once I’m back home. Pretty gutted for you and hope it’s been sorted out promptly. I’d love to hear an explanation as to how it ended in your hands in that state.


----------



## chasingtheclown

sleep51 said:


> Phew that’s awful.. how did that get sent out?
> Mine is the champagne with maple fretboard and there are no flaws nor are there any on the neck joint, nut is as normal, no paint chipping etc. I’ll get some qc pics up once I’m back home. Pretty gutted for you and hope it’s been sorted out promptly. I’d love to hear an explanation as to how it ended in your hands in that state.


They said it could have happened while the guitar was being handled in the shipping prep and photos stage. Not sure how much of that I think is true as the markings on the fretboard and side don’t seem like markings due to handling. Also they mentioned they might need to add an additional check at the shipping stage. that’s good to hear but I don’t think that’s the issue here. Still waiting to get a refund back pending inspection of the guitar next week as the guitar has already been delivered back. Something about this last drop just put a sour taste in my mouth between getting a dud of a guitar and the fact that a mailer was sent out advertising the zebra guitar would be available only to see Tosin decided to keep it… Great, but that doesn’t look good in the grand scheme of things. I love the guitars and what he’s doing just some questionable moves. 

Honestly the refund option was given without hesitation but I wish they went a bit beyond that and possibly offered a replacement for even a pick of one of the next release guitars before dropping.


----------



## CW7

Thrav said:


> Was just going to post last night responding to this but forgot.
> 
> Ive had 3 local friends 2 Js and a Masters. The masters needed to be sent back for an entirely new nut as it was literally cracked, and one of the J needed fret leveling.
> 
> It doesn’t seem to be an issue with Legions as it’s just an Abasi issue. They’re going through some growing pains im thinking.



this is unfortunate, but parallels the experience I’ve detailed here’s in the past. (Save for my most recent USA, which is the first time out of any Abasi purchase I didn’t have to have frets leveled, saddles filed, or other set up work done.) Someone brought up something to the effect of “why keep buying them and bashing them if you’re not happy?…”. It’s not that - I WANT to get a good one, and really like the guitars overall on paper. (And visually). Had high hopes from the brand (still do). But people need to know, ESPECIALLY when dropped 4k +, there’s a Decent possibility you get something that’s on par with what you’d expect for a custom shop/boutique priced instrument. I should have had a master 8 from this last batch but botched my order, so I’m waiting to see if I can snag one sooner than later on used market so I can compare it to the Carbon 6. (I also have a J7 which I like but needed the aforementioned fret and saddle work).


----------



## chasingtheclown

CW7 said:


> this is unfortunate, but parallels the experience I’ve detailed here’s in the past. (Save for my most recent USA, which is the first time out of any Abasi purchase I didn’t have to have frets leveled, saddles filed, or other set up work done.) Someone brought up something to the effect of “why keep buying them and bashing them if you’re not happy?…”. It’s not that - I WANT to get a good one, and really like the guitars overall on paper. (And visually). Had high hopes from the brand (still do). But people need to know, ESPECIALLY when dropped 4k +, there’s a Decent possibility you get something that’s on par with what you’d expect for a custom shop/boutique priced instrument. I should have had a master 8 from this last batch but botched my order, so I’m waiting to see if I can snag one sooner than later on used market so I can compare it to the Carbon 6. (I also have a J7 which I like but needed the aforementioned fret and saddle work).


Agreed, I want to get a good one as well and also speaking from experience of owning a couple master series for brief moments and not being thrilled entirely with the quality. This was the first time I went direct to them. If someone on his team or Tosin sees this I hope nothing but the best. 

I wish they’d just go the custom order route. I have no problem waiting for MY instrument and would gladly wait upwards to a year if needed knowing the instrument was not being rushed out. The issue with these “exclusive” small batch issues are cases like mine which only a refund can be done. Don’t get me wrong that’s great but doesn’t necessarily fix things as I was clearly willing to spend that money. Just the option to be able to even pick an instrument of my choice on the next drop I would have been thrilled. I think the mentality here in my eyes is that since the demand is so high that someone else is willing to buy what the next person might not think is up to standards. Not saying this is what they are doing but it makes me question.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

I've found that if you try and purchase one of the guitars that is posted on instagram or the newsletter, there's a good chance that tosin/someone else is spending time taking good pictures of it. Might be a quick extra QC check to some degree. This Mystic dream master 6 is pretty flawless


----------



## Cockandballs

I’m a bit shocked that they are being listed for $4500 in the verb now that’s a bit insane


----------



## The Blue Ghost

With the obligatory: "It's the best guitar ever conceived just selling because 8-strings just aren't for me lol" added in the description


----------



## Hollowway

chasingtheclown said:


> They said it could have happened while the guitar was being handled in the shipping prep and photos stage. Not sure how much of that I think is true as the markings on the fretboard and side don’t seem like markings due to handling. Also they mentioned they might need to add an additional check at the shipping stage. that’s good to hear but I don’t think that’s the issue here. Still waiting to get a refund back pending inspection of the guitar next week as the guitar has already been delivered back. Something about this last drop just put a sour taste in my mouth between getting a dud of a guitar and the fact that a mailer was sent out advertising the zebra guitar would be available only to see Tosin decided to keep it… Great, but that doesn’t look good in the grand scheme of things. I love the guitars and what he’s doing just some questionable moves.
> 
> Honestly the refund option was given without hesitation but I wish they went a bit beyond that and possibly offered a replacement for even a pick of one of the next release guitars before dropping.


Yeah, it’s likely that the flaws were seen, and they decided to ship anyway. Which might seem bad, but they have to draw the line somewhere, as no instrument is 100% perfect. They probably determined that it’s worth shipping, and then potentially doing a partial refund or return. But there are probably a number of people that would just accept it as is, and that’s the dice roll for them. I agree that it should have been a B stock, but it’s the kind of thing every company needs to decide. I think they’re trying to figure out what is acceptable and what is not.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, it’s likely that the flaws were seen, and they decided to ship anyway. Which might seem bad, but they have to draw the line somewhere, as no instrument is 100% perfect. They probably determined that it’s worth shipping, and then potentially doing a partial refund or return. But there are probably a number of people that would just accept it as is, and that’s the dice roll for them. I agree that it should have been a B stock, but it’s the kind of thing every company needs to decide. I think they’re trying to figure out what is acceptable and what is not.



Nah, they just know someone will buy it and if not they'll just rework it and throw it in the next batch. 

This isn't some rando, it's fucking Grover Jackson. Who, funny enough, was known for pulling that shit with Jackson and later GJ2. 

When demand so significantly outweighs supply, you can be sloppy. Even more so with such a rabid fanbase.


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> Nah, they just know someone will buy it and if not they'll just rework it and throw it in the next batch.
> 
> This isn't some rando, it's fucking Grover Jackson. Who, funny enough, was known for pulling that shit with Jackson and later GJ2.
> 
> When demand so significantly outweighs supply, you can be sloppy. Even more so with such a rabid fanbase.


Oh, wow, I didn't know he had a history of that. Interesting.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Oh, wow, I didn't know he had a history of that. Interesting.



The Jackson stuff is mostly rumor at this point, it's been so long, but there's a reason the GJ2 stuff had to be blown out at like 50% off MAP to move.


----------



## MrWulf

In Singapore, there's a shop that has tons of GJ2 sitting in there for years with nobody buying it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Don't get me wrong, Grover knows his shit, which is why it's so weird when folks in here are like "well I guess Grover Fucking Jackson is still figuring out this whole guitar thing". 

As for Abasi the brand, these are the same folks that kept a straight face and pulled up to NAMM with incomplete guitars and shipped those wonky ass Falbos without a second thought.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> The Jackson stuff is mostly rumor at this point, it's been so long, but there's a reason the GJ2 stuff had to be blown out at like 50% off MAP to move.





MrWulf said:


> In Singapore, there's a shop that has tons of GJ2 sitting in there for years with nobody buying it.



he also made guitars where you have to take the neck off to adjust the truss rod IIRC
that's just straight up stupid
no wonder noone buys that


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I play music said:


> he also made guitars where you have to take the neck off to adjust the truss rod IIRC
> that's just straight up stupid
> no wonder noone buys that



Most Custom Shop Fenders still use the "period correct" truss rod setup. People are weird. 

It's actually not terrible, I've probably worked on a thousand guitars with that setup. Certainly not ideal, but only adds a few minutes to the overall process.


----------



## I play music

MaxOfMetal said:


> Most Custom Shop Fenders still use the "period correct" truss rod setup. People are weird.
> 
> It's actually not terrible, I've probably worked on a thousand guitars with that setup. Certainly not ideal, but only adds a few minutes to the overall process.


yes but probably those Fenders are for collectors that want it "vintage correct", GJ isn't "vintage correct" anyways, so there is no reason at all
I can see that for someone very experienced but I would just give it a quarter turn and then be incredibly pissed off that I have to put it off another time because it was not enough


MaxOfMetal said:


> folks in here are like "well I guess Grover Fucking Jackson is still figuring out this whole guitar thing".


I think who does that in this century still has to figure out this guitar thing


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I play music said:


> yes but probably those Fenders are for collectors that want it "vintage correct", GJ isn't "vintage correct" anyways, so there is no reason at all
> I can see that for someone very experienced but I would just give it a quarter turn and then be incredibly pissed off that I have to put it off another time because it was not enough
> 
> I think who does that in this century still has to figure out this guitar thing



K.


----------



## MrWulf

Personally i just feel the whole Abasi Concepts to be incredibly shoddy and pretentious for the amount of hype, money and personnels it has involved. I already feels bad enough spending a good chunk of money on a rare axe that turned out to be a little bit less ideal than what i was hoping for, nevermind these imperfections on a 4k axe.


----------



## Lordcephid

MrWulf said:


> In Singapore, there's a shop that has tons of GJ2 sitting in there for years with nobody buying it.



hahah then again, most of these shops in Singapore have a shit ton of other guitars sitting there for years as well.


----------



## Lordcephid

MrWulf said:


> Personally i just feel the whole Abasi Concepts to be incredibly shoddy and pretentious for the amount of hype, money and personnels it has involved. I already feels bad enough spending a good chunk of money on a rare axe that turned out to be a little bit less ideal than what i was hoping for, nevermind these imperfections on a 4k axe.



NGL, I was kinda tempted to get another since overall I love how it plays so comfortably. but seeing how the prices have gone up by so much and well... still plenty of QC issues, I think I'll be putting my money else where till the day their QC is tip top.


----------



## MrWulf

Lordcephid said:


> hahah then again, most of these shops in Singapore have a shit ton of other guitars sitting there for years as well.



They also have a bunch of ESPs too, even the exhibition ones.


----------



## Lordcephid

MrWulf said:


> They also have a bunch of ESPs too, even the exhibition ones.


ahhh means it's Davis Guitars. My uncle knows the owners and they don't really sell what's displayed at the storefront.. but then again even in their store they have a lot of other guitars that don't move. But even across most guitar shops in Singapore it's generally a lot that don't move that much


----------



## Lordcephid

Cockandballs said:


> I’m a bit shocked that they are being listed for $4500 in the verb now that’s a bit insane


You're referring to the shell pink one right? I saw the guy post it on Facebook as well can't remember which group he posted it to was trying to find it earlier but not sure if he took the post down but on Facebook he was selling it for $4000.. So I guess the 500 diff on reverb is to cover the fees


----------



## CW7

rohanranjan said:


> I've found that if you try and purchase one of the guitars that is posted on instagram or the newsletter, there's a good chance that tosin/someone else is spending time taking good pictures of it. Might be a quick extra QC check to some degree. This Mystic dream master 6 is pretty flawless


I subscribed to this in the past, which is why I was a bit taken aback when I got one that tosin literally said “my favorite of this batch”, and it still needed the standard issue setup most (all save for 1) of my Abasi’s has needed. Just does appear to be a total crap shoot- OTHER than the Carbon 6 USA I got from a couple drops ago. I still stand by my unsubstantiated but reasonable guess it was either made by someone else, or hot serious special attention. It’s not even close to the others. Literally like it came out of nice, high end factory (like you’d expect for 4k), and needed NOTHING to slam the action and get to enjoying it. I STILL have hopes for them as they clearly are capable of producing an instrument that looks and feels like it’s price tag. Call me naive, but I’ll keep rolling the dice until I land on another one like I got prior.


----------



## millenarianism

Last week I ran into my first real issue with my Legion 8. Minor cosmetic issues aside, the pickup selector no longer works in the first position of the bridge pickup. Every other position is fine; but when I go to the bridge pickup, I get nothing but crackling when trying to play a note.

It's too bad, because I've enjoyed the Legion 8. Now I've gotta wait a few more days for it to come out of the shop.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

After seeing all these QC's issues I'm getting more and more keen on getting a Suhr or Anderson. There's just something about great QC that's hard to beat no matter how hard a brand promises to tesselate your thumb or whatnot


----------



## CW7

The Blue Ghost said:


> After seeing all these QC's issues I'm getting more and more keen on getting a Suhr or Anderson. There's just something about great QC that's hard to beat no matter how hard a brand promises to tesselate your thumb or whatnot


FWIW; I’ve had numerous builds from both builders you mentioned and never had a “bad” one in the mix. Every single one was bang on ready to go straight out of the case (and honestly that goes for the used ones I’ve snagged as well). Those are both very safe bets for them being what you expect at said price point.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

CW7 said:


> FWIW; I’ve had numerous builds from both builders you mentioned and never had a “bad” one in the mix. Every single one was bang on ready to go straight out of the case (and honestly that goes for the used ones I’ve snagged as well). Those are both very safe bets for them being what you expect at said price point.



Thanks for the input!
Really keen on getting one or the other at some point.


----------



## thomas.reuter

No plans on selling my Legion 8 sage blue, but it's crazy to think that if I listed it on reverb for 3k it wouldn't be unrealistic...


----------



## TheHardwareChap

thomas.reuter said:


> No plans on selling my Legion 8 sage blue, but it's crazy to think that if I listed it on reverb for 3k it wouldn't be unrealistic...


Eesh what would this master mystic dream go for then?


----------



## NCeuRign

I got my hipshot industrial tuner pegs and installed on my custom 6 today. Trivially easy and I like the look


----------



## NCeuRign

rohanranjan said:


> Eesh what would this master mystic dream go for then?



Speak of the devil ...

I assume the one that just appeared is not yours?


----------



## TheHardwareChap

NCeuRign said:


> Speak of the devil ...
> 
> I assume the one that just appeared is not yours?


LOL. No. That's HK apparently. I'm not going to sell mine. I actually really like it more than my mayones


----------



## chasingtheclown

UPDATE: I was refunded as promised and without hesitation already have an order for an in stock Aristides. No bash on Abasi but I just prefer the customer service level that Aristides provides. I don’t run a company so I can’t talk big but just my view as a spending customer. I hope this gets noticed by them in a positive way


----------



## CW7

chasingtheclown said:


> UPDATE: I was refunded as promised and without hesitation already have an order for an in stock Aristides. No bash on Abasi but I just prefer the customer service level that Aristides provides. I don’t run a company so I can’t talk big but just my view as a spending customer. I hope this gets noticed by them in a positive way


Sorry the Abasi didn’t work out but I feel confident you’ll be more than impressed with Artistides. Their customer service matches the products … absolutely stellar.


----------



## chasingtheclown

Am I missing something here

People asked why the guitar wasn’t released when the newsletter mentioned it. He did end up saying he kept it but then this…


----------



## Alberto7

chasingtheclown said:


> Am I missing something here
> 
> People asked why the guitar wasn’t released when the newsletter mentioned it. He did end up saying he kept it but then this…



I noticed this too. Sketch.
Though I guess we're just missing some info... I guess.

Unrelated, that is probably the only Larada I have seen so far that I would actively consider.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Alberto7 said:


> I noticed this too. Sketch.
> Though I guess we're just missing some info... I guess.
> 
> Unrelated, that is probably the only Larada I have seen so far that I would actively consider.


Yea tosin confirmed on Instagram, someone in the forum commented and he said he kept it, kinda sucks, but I'm hoping it'll release again sometime soon


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Lunaburst master 6 already up on reverb. That was quick


----------



## Aaron Leeman

rohanranjan said:


> Lunaburst master 6 already up on reverb. That was quick



"Impulse buy" my guy I wish I could Impulse buy me something like that mannnn


----------



## Cockandballs

rohanranjan said:


> Lunaburst master 6 already up on reverb. That was quick


thats a crackhead price on the verb. these are not $4K guitars.


----------



## Cockandballs

https://www.guitarworld.com/amp/gear/abasi-concepts-unveils-three-new-larada-electric-guitars - the pricing has come a long way in two years


----------



## Hollowway

Aaron Leeman said:


> "Impulse buy" my guy I wish I could Impulse buy me something like that mannnn


Impulse buy my ass. These are just flippers who, for some reason, are too afraid they’re just in it to make some quick cash.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Impulse buy my ass. These are just flippers who, for some reason, are too afraid they’re just in it to make some quick cash.



Honestly, I think most folks selling right away just aren't into the guitars all that much and charging reasonable money considering the hype and bullshit buying process. 

Not everyone is a serial flipper. I wouldn't even consider 75 sales as such. 

I also don't understand what folks want. Who is going to trash a guitar they're looking to sell? I mean, props to anyone who is just like "yeah, all hype, piece of junk, give me market rate anyway".


----------



## chasingtheclown

I paid roughly $4200 for that master series I returned back to Abasi after shipping and tax. If I were to try and sell that just to break even I’d have to hike the price a substantial amount. Furthermore, If I actually wanted to make it worth my while and make any sort of money that guitar would need to be listed for a lot more especially when you sell on places like Reverb. 

Let’s say you list it for $5k on reverb and it actually sells. You are easily looking at +/- $400 in fees and with shipping and insurance easily over $100. 

So $300 profit with a $4200 gamble….

I’d say throw that into the stock market.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

chasingtheclown said:


> I paid roughly $4200 for that master series I returned back to Abasi after shipping and tax. If I were to try and sell that just to break even I’d have to hike the price a substantial amount. Furthermore, If I actually wanted to make it worth my while and make any sort of money that guitar would need to be listed for a lot more especially when you sell on places like Reverb.
> 
> Let’s say you list it for $5k on reverb and it actually sells. You are easily looking at +/- $400 in fees and with shipping and insurance easily over $100.
> 
> So $300 profit with a $4200 gamble….
> 
> I’d say throw that into the stock market.



Exactly. 

Folks on here think you're a flipper making big bucks if you don't get totally hosed.


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> Honestly, I think most folks selling right away just aren't into the guitars all that much and charging reasonable money considering the hype and bullshit buying process.
> 
> Not everyone is a serial flipper. I wouldn't even consider 75 sales as such.
> 
> I also don't understand what folks want. Who is going to trash a guitar they're looking to sell? I mean, props to anyone who is just like "yeah, all hype, piece of junk, give me market rate anyway".


There was a Carvin AC50 for sale on Reverb a couple of years ago that I almost bought, but then it disappeared. It reappeared a few days later for a couple hundred bucks more. I messaged the guy and asked why he was selling so fast and he told me flat out he flips guitars for income, and only bought it to mark it up to flip. It put me more at ease then the typical, “I decided to buy a really expensive 8 string, but it turns out I’m not into 8s” sort of reasoning. I personally have zero issue if someone buys and sells for income. But I prefer to know the actual reason they are selling, because then I know what to expect.


----------



## Hollowway

chasingtheclown said:


> I paid roughly $4200 for that master series I returned back to Abasi after shipping and tax. If I were to try and sell that just to break even I’d have to hike the price a substantial amount. Furthermore, If I actually wanted to make it worth my while and make any sort of money that guitar would need to be listed for a lot more especially when you sell on places like Reverb.
> 
> Let’s say you list it for $5k on reverb and it actually sells. You are easily looking at +/- $400 in fees and with shipping and insurance easily over $100.
> 
> So $300 profit with a $4200 gamble….
> 
> I’d say throw that into the stock market.


Yeah, that’s a good point about Reverb fees. I don’t even know what they are know, but I know they’re high, based on all the chatter about it I’ve heard.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

I think part of what irks me about all of this is how Abasi seemingly cuts out the middleman by selling directly which should cut the fees for having other retailers handling them. But due to their small output and high demand we need to deal with your average Joe in the same way as Guitar Center or Thomann except there's no real return policy and you're are paying a premium for a b-stock instrument which goes to the sellers costs and probable want to profit at least enough to cover some takeout or a case of beer


----------



## Cockandballs

The Blue Ghost said:


> I think part of what irks me about all of this is how Abasi seemingly cuts out the middleman by selling directly which should cut the fees for having other retailers handling them. But due to their small output and high demand we need to deal with your average Joe in the same way as Guitar Center or Thomann except there's no real return policy and you're are paying a premium for a b-stock instrument which goes to the sellers costs and probable want to profit at least enough to cover some takeout or a case of beer


I'm kind of fine with the direct to consumer model. I'm just more annoyed that every release has had a gradual price increase, so muck so that the guitars have almost doubled in price. The were priced initially at $2,600 a few years ago and now they are basically $4K. I like the ones I have but would not pay $4K to get them. I was disappointed in the quality of the last drop. My 8 had a messed up nut that I should have sent back but I fixed it and I'm a bit sour on it as a result. wondering how much the space t's will be.


----------



## AMOS

I'm in love https://abasiconcepts.com/products/larada-8-master-series-selenite-roasted-basswood


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Mystic dream space T? Come onnnnnn


----------



## thorgan

Space Ts dropping at 8pm PST


----------



## CW7

Cockandballs said:


> thats a crackhead price on the verb. these are not $4K guitars.


IF it’s on par with my Carbon, I’d actually say that’s about right. Mine is every bit what I expect on a 4k instrument.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

SO......who's gettin one?


----------



## Cockandballs

Think the colors are a bit predictable. But disappointed.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> SO......who's gettin one?


I may try for the Mystic. If I snag it, this blue mayo may be up for sale....


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

rohanranjan said:


> I may try for the Mystic. If I snag it, this blue mayo may be up for sale....



that regius 6?


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> that regius 6?


Yepp


----------



## TheHardwareChap

$3899. Same price as the masters? What happened to them omg


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

rohanranjan said:


> $3899. Same price as the masters? What happened to them omg



ugh so expensive


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> ugh so expensive


I bought the Mystic out of impulse but I think I'm going to cancel. All are still available
Crazy


----------



## Cockandballs

Kind of ripoff. I bought mine for $3299 on the first drop of space t. They don’t hold their value as you can see on the verb.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

rohanranjan said:


> I bought the Mystic out of impulse but I think I'm going to cancel. All are still available
> Crazy



Ha! Same!


----------



## Cockandballs

No bots needed on
This drop


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Ha! Same!


So we both bought the mystics but it's still up? Wow. Also how do I cancel this? Send an email?


----------



## NCeuRign

How do you buy and then cancel? Mine the purchase has gone through and a couple of hours later I've got shipping notifications. But I've seen plenty of posts (and website evidence) that people cancel way after purchasing.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

NCeuRign said:


> How do you buy and then cancel? Mine the purchase has gone through and a couple of hours later I've got shipping notifications. But I've seen plenty of posts (and website evidence) that people cancel way after purchasing.



Sent an email. Got a refund notification immediately.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

I'm actually kinda annoyed. $3000-3200 I would've dealt with it. $4k with tax and shipping is too much for these


----------



## Cockandballs

rohanranjan said:


> I'm actually kinda annoyed. $3000-3200 I would've dealt with it. $4k with tax and shipping is too much for these


They’ve really taken a piss take


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Hopefully no one buys em and they realize this is too much. But probably not


----------



## Cockandballs

I don’t know. It’s kind of what happened to Kramer back in the day. Clearly the market has peaked for this niche to have that many available. And mystic dream went from a cool niche thing to being overplayed by every maker. Was hoping to see a different wood combo, 7 string space t, something different


----------



## Cockandballs

How’s Tosin gonna make his sports car payments if we don’t buy these


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Anyone wanna bet when they're gonna post a story on Instagram saying they have many left?


----------



## Cockandballs

rohanranjan said:


> Anyone wanna bet when they're gonna post a story on Instagram saying they have many left?


Yup. Longest drop ever


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Ha! Same!


Did you end up canceling?


----------



## narad

Jeez... I'm surprised at howe many people are buying and cancelling. Just make the right decision the first time and quit wasting everyone's time.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

narad said:


> Jeez... I'm surprised at howe many people are buying and cancelling. Just make the right decision the first time and quit wasting everyone's time.



Curious why you're opposed to it. I've wanted a Space T for ages. I snagged one immediately because it's generally so hard to get one. However, I immediately regretted paying that much. As a result, I canceled. Gives me enough time to justify the purchase, considering every single one is still available


----------



## narad

rohanranjan said:


> Curious why you're opposed to it. I've wanted a Space T for ages. I snagged one immediately because it's generally so hard to get one. However, I immediately regretted paying that much. As a result, I canceled. Gives me enough time to justify the purchase, considering every single one is still available



Seems easily solvable by thinking ahead of time what your max price is for a Space T, then deciding to not buy or buy based on whether they go up above or below that price. That way it's a you-problem, and not a new hassle for another person.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

F


narad said:


> Seems easily solvable by thinking ahead of time what your max price is for a Space T, then deciding to not buy or buy based on whether they go up above or below that price. That way it's a you-problem, and not a new hassle for another person.


Fair. Thats on me. Just not sure how this affects you


----------



## narad

rohanranjan said:


> F
> 
> Fair. Thats on me. Just not sure how this affects you



Isn't it obvious? I'm Tosin Abasi.

I mean, a person throwing their garbage into the ocean doesn't effect me. But we can all agree that it's an irresponsible thing to do, even if it makes the trash dumper's life a little easier. And in aggregate, if everyone behaved that way the world would be a shittier place. I live in that world. And I empathize with people who have to work in customer service.


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> Isn't it obvious? I'm Tosin Abasi.
> 
> I mean, a person throwing their garbage into the ocean doesn't effect me. But we can all agree that it's an irresponsible thing to do, even if it makes the trash dumper's life a little easier. And in aggregate, if everyone behaved that way the world would be a shittier place. I live in that world. And I empathize with people who have to work in customer service.



All true. But we have an addiction, and there ain't no 12 step program.  I've purchased stuff on impulse on Reverb, and regretted it hours later, but am too embarrassed to tell the seller. Scarcity is a STRONG motivator for the addicted, lol.


----------



## narad

Hollowway said:


> All true. But we have an addiction, and there ain't no 12 step program.  I've purchased stuff on impulse on Reverb, and regretted it hours later, but am too embarrassed to tell the seller. Scarcity is a STRONG motivator for the addicted, lol.



Being too embarrassed to tell the seller is exactly the right move


----------



## Hollowway

narad said:


> Being too embarrassed to tell the seller is exactly the right move


Plus, I usually am glad I made the decision when I actually get the guitar in my hands. Nothing beats a shiny new toy (or sometimes a matte new toy, lol)!


----------



## Cockandballs

So did anybody by one?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

narad said:


> Jeez... I'm surprised at howe many people are buying and cancelling. Just make the right decision the first time and quit wasting everyone's time.


Thats the problem though, the model isn't set up to be able to make decisions ahead of time. We get some random pictures of SOME of the guitars and then have to hope that were quick enough on the draw if something pops up that we like.

Buying and potentially cancelling at least gives the person a but of time to think on a guitar that they've only seen for a few minutes at that point. But trying to debate it beforehand often means that you'll completely miss out on it at all. 

It's not as black and white as you'd like to believe it is.


----------



## narad

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Thats the problem though, the model isn't set up to be able to make decisions ahead of time. We get some random pictures of SOME of the guitars and then have to hope that were quick enough on the draw if something pops up that we like.
> 
> Buying and potentially cancelling at least gives the person a but of time to think on a guitar that they've only seen for a few minutes at that point. But trying to debate it beforehand often means that you'll completely miss out on it at all.
> 
> It's not as black and white as you'd like to believe it is.



I don't buy it. Did you buy some finish that wasn't shown beforehand or from a previous run? Did you buy some new model that wasn't shown before? This drop we knew it was Space Ts. Same sort of color palette as always. You can't imagine that mystic dream, a color from previous models, would show up on one of these?

If I was Tosin I'd shitcan that policy so fast. You bought it, you buy it.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

narad said:


> I don't buy it. Did you buy some finish that wasn't shown beforehand or from a previous run? Did you buy some new model that wasn't shown before? This drop we knew it was Space Ts. Same sort of color palette as always. You can't imagine that mystic dream, a color from previous models, would show up on one of these?
> 
> If I was Tosin I'd shitcan that policy so fast. You bought it, you buy it.



Good to know you're so personally invested in this. Also, they don't use paypal so there is no loss of fees or anything. And with multiples of what appears to be most colorways it literally impacts nobody. Well, except Ivan who has to click 3 whole buttons to cancel something.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Also bears mentioning that you're arguing with someone who bought and kept it. So...


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> Also bears mentioning that you're arguing with someone who bought and kept it. So...


Oh wow. Let me know what you think when you get it


----------



## TheHardwareChap

The Space T on the verb seems like a bargain at this point. I wonder if they'll drop the prices in a bit if no one bites


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Also champagne supernova sold out. So someone's buying it


----------



## Will XS01

Been running with my J Larada since last May and I'm deeply in love with this guitar. Here's a lil visual we did with it. Hope yall enjoy!


----------



## BlackMastodon

Leaviathan said:


> I'm in love https://abasiconcepts.com/products/larada-8-master-series-selenite-roasted-basswood


Am I missing something here? Aside from the roasted maple neck, why brand it as roasted basswood and then paint it a solid finish? Does it really matter if it's roasted after that? Or is this for the toanwood voodoo chuds?


----------



## ian540s

I walked past Tosin while I was picking up some food today, he did not have a guitar with him at all times as I expected, but I do feel better that we probably ate the same thing for lunch. 

I said nothing.


----------



## ArtDecade

ian540s said:


> I walked past Tosin while I was picking up some food today, he did not have a guitar with him at all times as I expected, but I do feel better that we probably ate the same thing for lunch.
> 
> I said nothing.



That's not proper haiku form. Try again.


----------



## AMOS

BlackMastodon said:


> Am I missing something here? Aside from the roasted maple neck, why brand it as roasted basswood and then paint it a solid finish? Does it really matter if it's roasted after that? Or is this for the toanwood voodoo chuds?


I like the way it looks


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Will XS01 said:


> Been running with my J Larada since last May and I'm deeply in love with this guitar. Here's a lil visual we did with it. Hope yall enjoy!



You'll are so talented. I don't deserve these guitars


----------



## BlackMastodon

Leaviathan said:


> I like the way it looks


Yeah that's fair. Not to say it looks bad, I like the matte paint too, I just think the roasted basswood body is a weird choice.


----------



## Hollowway

ArtDecade said:


> That's not proper haiku form. Try again.


 Best post on SSO today!


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

BlackMastodon said:


> Yeah that's fair. Not to say it looks bad, I like the matte paint too, I just think the roasted basswood body is a weird choice.


He just doesn't like raw basswood, gotta cook it, duh.


----------



## BlackMastodon

FromTheMausoleum said:


> He just doesn't like raw basswood, gotta cook it, duh.


Well done with catsup, of course.


----------



## spudmunkey

The couple of times I've held roasted wood, they seemed harder than the non-roasted variety. I don't think I was imagining it or that it was a placebo. And harder would mean it's less dent-prone, which basswood certainly is...and with as much difference as there can be from two guitars made from the same wood in weight and overall resonance, I'd have to imagine roasting does have some sort of effect on it, and maybe even a equalizing one...but that's just speculation on my part.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> The couple of times I've held roasted wood, they seemed harder than the non-roasted variety. I don't think I was imagining it or that it was a placebo. And harder would mean it's less dent-prone, which basswood certainly is...and with as much difference as there can be from two guitars made from the same wood in weight and overall resonance, I'd have to imagine roasting does have some sort of effect on it, and maybe even a equalizing one...but that's just speculation on my part.



All roasting does is cook out more moisture, including resins and waxes, that typical kilning doesn't. In that process you also char the wood a bit, hence the color. 

It's basically aging the wood, as that all tend to happen naturally over the years. 

I don't think it has any bearing on tone, it's just more stiff and stable. Though there are varying degrees of roast.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Finally almost sold out. Only three types left. Mystic dream included


----------



## CW7

I’m torn on these… part of me says “if they’re as nice as the USA master 6, I’d be in for one..” but the other part knows if it’s NOT I’ll be pissed and won’t be able to move it for what I paid. What to do…


----------



## TheHardwareChap

CW7 said:


> I’m torn on these… part of me says “if they’re as nice as the USA master 6, I’d be in for one..” but the other part knows if it’s NOT I’ll be pissed and won’t be able to move it for what I paid. What to do…


Literally how I feel. Considering it costs exactly the same as the Masters. @TheInvisibleHand you get a delivery estimate yet?


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Space T vs a Suhr/Anderson is my dilemma


----------



## xzacx

CW7 said:


> I’m torn on these… part of me says “if they’re as nice as the USA master 6, I’d be in for one..” but the other part knows if it’s NOT I’ll be pissed and won’t be able to move it for what I paid. What to do…


Aren’t you able to just return it if there are issues?


----------



## TheHardwareChap

xzacx said:


> Aren’t you able to just return it if there are issues?


Yep. You just lose the $85 or so for shipping + the cost of shipping it back I think


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

rohanranjan said:


> Literally how I feel. Considering it costs exactly the same as the Masters. @TheInvisibleHand you get a delivery estimate yet?


nothing yet. but im guessing it will show up late next week.


----------



## Cockandballs

CW7 said:


> I’m torn on these… part of me says “if they’re as nice as the USA master 6, I’d be in for one..” but the other part knows if it’s NOT I’ll be pissed and won’t be able to move it for what I paid. What to do…


I’m with you if these had the carbon quilt finish, binding, etc. But these finishes are good but for $4K. They go for about $2700 on reverb so I’d watch. I have a few Space T and I do love them but I did switch out the bridges and paid $3299. The intonation can be maddening with that bridge.


----------



## narad

Cockandballs said:


> I’m with you if these had the carbon quilt finish, binding, etc. But these finishes are good but for $4K. They go for about $2700 on reverb so I’d watch. I have a few Space T and I do love them but I did switch out the bridges and paid $3299. The intonation can be maddening with that bridge.



What'd you replace it with?


----------



## Cockandballs

Gotoh GTC201 Bridge. I use heavy bottom strings light top and drop tunings. The other bridge just could not work for that​


----------



## asandwich

Yeah, the vintage compensated tele bridges really only intonate well for 10's or lighter strings in E standard. Glendale does make custom vintage saddles for heavier gauge strings. You could also hand-cut slots into uncut brass saddles.


----------



## Cockandballs

asandwich said:


> Yeah, the vintage compensated tele bridges really only intonate well for 10's or lighter strings in E standard. Glendale does make custom vintage saddles for heavier gauge strings. You could also hand-cut slots into uncut brass saddles.


Again. For $4k with Fishman pickups. It should already have a modern bridge. this a amidern style guitar.


----------



## spudmunkey

I'm surprised Abasi doesn't use the Wilkinson/Gotoh television bridge with three brass saddles that have the pivot point in the middle for more intonation flexibility.


----------



## Thrav

4 months since I left my Strandy behind. No regrets.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Mystic dream finally sold out


----------



## Cockandballs

It’s the weirdest and longest drop. A few them popped back up after being sold out - white and grey.


----------



## Ze_F

Quick (?) review on a Larada seven with floyd. What I like to play, have been to 8 strings (have a tam10 and a tam100), but 7 is fine for me.

Bought from Ikebe, very nice customer service.

First, for some context : I own something like 50 guitars, Acoustics, classical, electric, a bass ot 2 (Ibanez mostly, but Fender custom and US too, Schecter, 3 padalka, 3 skervesen, Taylor etc), and have been playing for 30 years or so. On and off.

Mine is supposed to be a custom model, Ebony Fretboard, wenge neck, Roasted baswood, Burl maple top, black



It was 2K USD plus shipping to Switzerland (I can never get a Larada on the site, don't want a bot or to wake up at 4 in the morning)

So, I have no idea if it's made in japan Like the legions or in the US, but there's a pic of Abasi holding it, seems genuine. And the guy signed it. No serial, nothing... 

Plus :
Plays great, sounds awesome, very defined. And I love the Larada looks.

Minus :
The attention to details. The trem pit is unsanded and looks rushed, no comment on the back routing, it's messy, almost incomplete looking. 
The truss rod wheel cavity looks rushed. 
The upper side of the fretboard from fret 12 up to 17 has been filed by an elephant, never seen something so blatantly unprofessional. 
Ho, and something I never, ever saw before, there was the plastic cover on the pickups. Not the adhesive ones mind you, the one that propably came with the pickup inside the box...wrapping the whole thing.
The neck joint around frets 21 - 24 has some discoloration, probably from the varnish/glue whatever. 
From afar, looks gorgeous, from up close, not so much.

TLDR :
So, It was, as far as Laradas go, quite a bargain. I love the looks, the design of the guitar is great, the sounds and playability are up there, I'll keep it. But I would have discarded it in an Indo Ibanez as a very weak instrument. 

Too bad, when they took the time, everything is fine and really great, but they rushed too many things.

Ikebe is not to blame, there were many pictures, and I should have been more cautious.

So, just my 2 cents on the Larada I own.


----------



## Cyanide_Anima

Man, the guitar market is crazy. It's a race to the bottom with a "What's the bare minimum players will accept at the highest possible consumer price?" In 2042 it'll be guitars being made CNC chainsaws using MDF and various breeds of scrap wood glued together hastily spray painted. And they'll cost $3200. Country of origin unknown.


----------



## ian540s

It's baffling the amount of not-so-hot review just in this thread, while on "The Internet" the guitars look like the best thing ever.. are they giving the Instagram guitarists better models?

Ironic to state the guitars have a design based in sports cars, but you would never buy a Porsche just to realize the doors don't close all the way because of misalignment or the lugnuts on the wheels are stripped.


----------



## Cyanide_Anima

ian540s said:


> are they giving the Instagram guitarists better models?


Yes. Most of the sponsored reviewers for any brand are getting guitars that are thoroughly checked and setup to play really well.


----------



## StevenC

Ze_F said:


> Quick (?) review on a Larada seven with floyd. What I like to play, have been to 8 strings (have a tam10 and a tam100), but 7 is fine for me.
> 
> Bought from Ikebe, very nice customer service.
> 
> First, for some context : I own something like 50 guitars, Acoustics, classical, electric, a bass ot 2 (Ibanez mostly, but Fender custom and US too, Schecter, 3 padalka, 3 skervesen, Taylor etc), and have been playing for 30 years or so. On and off.
> 
> Mine is supposed to be a custom model, Ebony Fretboard, wenge neck, Roasted baswood, Burl maple top, black
> View attachment 103049
> 
> 
> It was 2K USD plus shipping to Switzerland (I can never get a Larada on the site, don't want a bot or to wake up at 4 in the morning)
> 
> So, I have no idea if it's made in japan Like the legions or in the US, but there's a pic of Abasi holding it, seems genuine. And the guy signed it. No serial, nothing...
> 
> Plus :
> Plays great, sounds awesome, very defined. And I love the Larada looks.
> 
> Minus :
> The attention to details. The trem pit is unsanded and looks rushed, no comment on the back routing, it's messy, almost incomplete looking.
> The truss rod wheel cavity looks rushed.
> The upper side of the fretboard from fret 12 up to 17 has been filed by an elephant, never seen something so blatantly unprofessional.
> Ho, and something I never, ever saw before, there was the plastic cover on the pickups. Not the adhesive ones mind you, the one that propably came with the pickup inside the box...wrapping the whole thing.
> The neck joint around frets 21 - 24 has some discoloration, probably from the varnish/glue whatever.
> From afar, looks gorgeous, from up close, not so much.
> 
> TLDR :
> So, It was, as far as Laradas go, quite a bargain. I love the looks, the design of the guitar is great, the sounds and playability are up there, I'll keep it. But I would have discarded it in an Indo Ibanez as a very weak instrument.
> 
> Too bad, when they took the time, everything is fine and really great, but they rushed too many things.
> 
> Ikebe is not to blame, there were many pictures, and I should have been more cautious.
> 
> So, just my 2 cents on the Larada I own.


FYI, this is one of the infamous Falbo Abasis that got rushed and sent to Japan before that agreement fell apart. They're nothing to do with the current guitars as far as builders are concerned.


----------



## Ze_F

StevenC said:


> FYI, this is one of the infamous Falbo Abasis that got rushed and sent to Japan before that agreement fell apart. They're nothing to do with the current guitars as far as builders are concerned.


Ho damn, thanks for the info, and making this straight. I missed many episodes in this story, would you mind giving me the short version? (and I probably won't dig through the 370pages of this thread) 

I guess i was too excited to find an available Larada and for a "decent" price. Pray you never learn...


----------



## StevenC

Ze_F said:


> Ho damn, thanks for the info, and making this straight. I missed many episodes in this story, would you mind giving me the short version? (and I probably won't dig through the 370pages of this thread)
> 
> I guess i was too excited to find an available Larada and for a "decent" price. Pray you never learn...


So there was the the Ibanez TAM sequel prototypes. Tosin got fed up waiting on Ibanez getting it to production so went to Frank Falbo.







Tosin did the late 2018 shows with this guitar and we all speculated what it was. Then Abasi Concepts showed up at NAMM 2019 with this guitar, a 6 string with Floyd, and a bass. They took a bunch of orders as a custom operation.

The Abasi importer in Japan ordered a bunch in standard specs: burled tops, fanned or Floyd, and 6 7 or 8. These were to be delivered in early Summer 2019 when the importer was to visit and check the guitars before shipping. The guitars were in a bit of a state when he visited and it was determined that due to the rest of the backlog the guitars would be sent to Japan to be finished there. It's not known who finished them, but my money would be on Dyna Gakki. This is where your guitar came from.

The reason I suspect it was Dyna Gakki is because that's where the J Laradas are made and it was the same guy who organised both.

Anyway, there was then some falling out between Falbo and Abasi with both sides claiming to be the wronged party. Guitars got delayed, funds may have been misused, shop was raided for unfinished guitars, Abasi gave out refunds. There was a big split and Falbo has made some Larada-like guitars since then.

Tosin then went to Grover Jackson to make the current guitars, and Abasi was relaunched at NAMM 2020 with the Masters, Js and Legions being shown. And that brings us into the modern era.


----------



## Ataraxia2320

ian540s said:


> It's baffling the amount of not-so-hot review just in this thread, while on "The Internet" the guitars look like the best thing ever.. are they giving the Instagram guitarists better models?
> 
> Ironic to state the guitars have a design based in sports cars, but you would never buy a Porsche just to realize the doors don't close all the way because of misalignment or the lugnuts on the wheels are stripped.



I dont know how many sports cars you've driven but a lot of the supercars are built surprisingly poorly. Everything that makes the car go vrrm vrrm fast usually works well but everything else can be pretty shoddy tbh.


----------



## Ze_F

StevenC said:


> So there was the the Ibanez TAM sequel prototypes. Tosin got fed up waiting on Ibanez getting it to production so went to Frank Falbo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tosin did the late 2018 shows with this guitar and we all speculated what it was. Then Abasi Concepts showed up at NAMM 2019 with this guitar, a 6 string with Floyd, and a bass. They took a bunch of orders as a custom operation.
> 
> The Abasi importer in Japan ordered a bunch in standard specs: burled tops, fanned or Floyd, and 6 7 or 8. These were to be delivered in early Summer 2019 when the importer was to visit and check the guitars before shipping. The guitars were in a bit of a state when he visited and it was determined that due to the rest of the backlog the guitars would be sent to Japan to be finished there. It's not known who finished them, but my money would be on Dyna Gakki. This is where your guitar came from.
> 
> The reason I suspect it was Dyna Gakki is because that's where the J Laradas are made and it was the same guy who organised both.
> 
> Anyway, there was then some falling out between Falbo and Abasi with both sides claiming to be the wronged party. Guitars got delayed, funds may have been misused, shop was raided for unfinished guitars, Abasi gave out refunds. There was a big split and Falbo has made some Larada-like guitars since then.
> 
> Tosin then went to Grover Jackson to make the current guitars, and Abasi was relaunched at NAMM 2020 with the Masters, Js and Legions being shown. And that brings us into the modern era.


Thanks a lot for taking the time and going through this thorough explanation. 

I was completely unaware of most of the details, as I was mostly left salivating at the Ibanez prototype presented at NAMM and fast forward recently to the up to date ones. Had no idea about the Falbo fallout. Using the design when it's not yours can even add to the confusion. Great move. 

Well, my testimony to the quality of those Laradas is clear, there is no denying that while there's craftsmanship involved, the QC is super poor.


----------



## narad

Ze_F said:


> Quick (?) review on a Larada seven with floyd. What I like to play, have been to 8 strings (have a tam10 and a tam100), but 7 is fine for me.
> 
> Bought from Ikebe, very nice customer service.
> 
> First, for some context : I own something like 50 guitars, Acoustics, classical, electric, a bass ot 2 (Ibanez mostly, but Fender custom and US too, Schecter, 3 padalka, 3 skervesen, Taylor etc), and have been playing for 30 years or so. On and off.
> 
> Mine is supposed to be a custom model, Ebony Fretboard, wenge neck, Roasted baswood, Burl maple top, black
> View attachment 103049
> 
> 
> It was 2K USD plus shipping to Switzerland (I can never get a Larada on the site, don't want a bot or to wake up at 4 in the morning)
> 
> So, I have no idea if it's made in japan Like the legions or in the US, but there's a pic of Abasi holding it, seems genuine. And the guy signed it. No serial, nothing...
> 
> Plus :
> Plays great, sounds awesome, very defined. And I love the Larada looks.
> 
> Minus :
> The attention to details. The trem pit is unsanded and looks rushed, no comment on the back routing, it's messy, almost incomplete looking.
> The truss rod wheel cavity looks rushed.
> The upper side of the fretboard from fret 12 up to 17 has been filed by an elephant, never seen something so blatantly unprofessional.
> Ho, and something I never, ever saw before, there was the plastic cover on the pickups. Not the adhesive ones mind you, the one that propably came with the pickup inside the box...wrapping the whole thing.
> The neck joint around frets 21 - 24 has some discoloration, probably from the varnish/glue whatever.
> From afar, looks gorgeous, from up close, not so much.
> 
> TLDR :
> So, It was, as far as Laradas go, quite a bargain. I love the looks, the design of the guitar is great, the sounds and playability are up there, I'll keep it. But I would have discarded it in an Indo Ibanez as a very weak instrument.
> 
> Too bad, when they took the time, everything is fine and really great, but they rushed too many things.
> 
> Ikebe is not to blame, there were many pictures, and I should have been more cautious.
> 
> So, just my 2 cents on the Larada I own.



I think I may have played that exact guitar -- and that's after going to the shop twice because the first time the guy was being a pompous ass and acting like I couldn't afford a $5k guitar (oh, and it was like $5k at the time). But ya, those sat for forever for a reason -- it was literally like pre-covid when I got my hands on it. But overall still a great price for them to come down to...it's still the Larada experience, just not so much the highend boutique experience. I mean like 6 of them or so actually sold for around $5k!


----------



## Ze_F

Somehow I find it nice to know that, thanks for the feed back Narad.

5K, no way... 
I know what to expect from boutique guitars, my Larada is not that. I understand the bad blood about QC that generated. 
Too bad, what's well done is really well done, the guitar lacked one hour or two of attention. Or proper attention.

Despite all that, I really like this Larada.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

@TheInvisibleHand you get it?


----------



## asandwich

So I got the Champagne Supernova Space T yesterday, and I have to say, I'm a little disappointed; as I said to my ex, "it's me, baby, not you". 
**Before I dig in, I had the guitar shipped to my parent's in NJ as I live in NYC and don't trust mail thieves. I was over there yesterday to play-test the guitar for a few hours but didn't take photos. I'll take some tomorrow when I'm back and will update this post with pics.
Ok, so the good stuff first...

*Setup:* The guitar was perfectly set up out of the box, with fairly low action—especially for a tele—and no dead notes. I could easily bend up two whole steps above the 12th fret without having a note fret out or go dead, which is awesome. The bone nut is perfectly cut and seated.

*Neck: *The unique shape of the neck joint gives you a lot of wood to grip to get leverage for big bends, which I thought was pretty cool. Due to the shape of the upper bout, transitioning past the 12th fret does take getting used to, but after like 20 minutes of playing I was adjusting easily. The neck itself is a really unique shape—a deep D, almost soft V shape at the top of the neck, and flattening out significantly towards the bottom. Really cool.

*Body: *The body shape fits perfect for playing in the classical position, which I usually do when I'm playing for long periods of time. The guitar is also CRAZY light. Like, I've never played a guitar so light. It comes in at just over 6 lbs.

*Paint: *The paint job is fucking gorgeous; the sparkles catch the light super well.

*Sustain: *Overall pretty resonant, but not really any more or less than my other mid-to-high-end guitars.

*Electronics:* Greg Koch Fishman pickup set rules. Super versatile, as the two different voices can take you from bebop lines to shoegaze, to punk and even hardcore.

*Hardware:* Tuners and hardware are all pretty much perfect, at least for my needs (E standard w/ 10s).
Now the not so great...

*Neck dive:* While not outrageous, this guitar dives about as much as your average Gibson SG. When your arm is anchoring the body—especially while playing in the classical position—it's barely noticeable, but it's there. This body shape would probably work way better as a headless.

*Frets: *So the frets are finished well enough—no sprout or sharp ends—but they are not perfect. And at this price point, I expect perfection, along the lines of a Music Man or an Ibanez J.Custom.

*Fretboard: *I just don't think I really jive with richlite fretboards. This is my issue, and not the guitar's. It just feels... cheap? Makes the guitar feel more "toy-like" IMO.

*Relic:* Yes, I bought this knowing that it's reliced, and yes, I like relic guitars. However, while this relic job is pretty good, it's not at the same level of detail as a Suhr or Anderson, which again, I expect at this price point. The most egregious part of this relicing are the jagged edges along the bass-side of the body. Instead of smoothly sanded edges to make it feel like the guitar has been played for years, it feels like the wood was chipped away, burned with a soldering iron and then lacquered over, creating rough teeth along the edges the bit into my forearm after about 30 min of playing. After two hours, my arm was raw. This is 100% my biggest issue with this guitar. May not be a problem with the non-reliced versions.

*Sustain: *While the body is decently resonant, I had much higher expectations for a $4k custom shop guitar. Once again, this is probably more on me than the guitar.
Overall, the Space T is great. It's certainly on par with some of my nicer guitars—Ibanez Prestiges, my Warmoth strat, Gibson LP standard—but it still doesn't feel quite as premium as my #1, my Music Man JP15, which was $1000 cheaper. For $4k, I had higher expectations, and maybe that's my fault, idk. If this guitar was $1k to $1.5k cheaper I think I'd keep it, but alas, that's not the case. I have already emailed Ivan to begin the return process


----------



## Hollowway

Ze_F said:


> Somehow I find it nice to know that, thanks for the feed back Narad.
> 
> 5K, no way...
> I know what to expect from boutique guitars, my Larada is not that. I understand the bad blood about QC that generated.
> Too bad, what's well done is really well done, the guitar lacked one hour or two of attention. Or proper attention.
> 
> Despite all that, I really like this Larada.


The Floyd alone is worth the price of admission. That makes it pretty unique, in that right.


----------



## Cockandballs

asandwich said:


> So I got the Champagne Supernova Space T yesterday, and I have to say, I'm a little disappointed; as I said to my ex, "it's me, baby, not you".
> **Before I dig in, I had the guitar shipped to my parent's in NJ as I live in NYC and don't trust mail thieves. I was over there yesterday to play-test the guitar for a few hours but didn't take photos. I'll take some tomorrow when I'm back and will update this post with pics.
> Ok, so the good stuff first...
> 
> *Setup:* The guitar was perfectly set up out of the box, with fairly low action—especially for a tele—and no dead notes. I could easily bend up two whole steps above the 12th fret without having a note fret out or go dead, which is awesome. The bone nut is perfectly cut and seated.
> 
> *Neck: *The unique shape of the neck joint gives you a lot of wood to grip to get leverage for big bends, which I thought was pretty cool. Due to the shape of the upper bout, transitioning past the 12th fret does take getting used to, but after like 20 minutes of playing I was adjusting easily. The neck itself is a really unique shape—a deep D, almost soft V shape at the top of the neck, and flattening out significantly towards the bottom. Really cool.
> 
> *Body: *The body shape fits perfect for playing in the classical position, which I usually do when I'm playing for long periods of time. The guitar is also CRAZY light. Like, I've never played a guitar so light. It comes in at just over 6 lbs.
> 
> *Paint: *The paint job is fucking gorgeous; the sparkles catch the light super well.
> 
> *Sustain: *Overall pretty resonant, but not really any more or less than my other mid-to-high-end guitars.
> 
> *Electronics:* Greg Koch Fishman pickup set rules. Super versatile, as the two different voices can take you from bebop lines to shoegaze, to punk and even hardcore.
> 
> *Hardware:* Tuners and hardware are all pretty much perfect, at least for my needs (E standard w/ 10s).
> Now the not so great...
> 
> *Neck dive:* While not outrageous, this guitar dives about as much as your average Gibson SG. When your arm is anchoring the body—especially while playing in the classical position—it's barely noticeable, but it's there. This body shape would probably work way better as a headless.
> 
> *Frets: *So the frets are finished well enough—no sprout or sharp ends—but they are not perfect. And at this price point, I expect perfection, along the lines of a Music Man or an Ibanez J.Custom.
> 
> *Fretboard: *I just don't think I really jive with richlite fretboards. This is my issue, and not the guitar's. It just feels... cheap? Makes the guitar feel more "toy-like" IMO.
> 
> *Relic:* Yes, I bought this knowing that it's reliced, and yes, I like relic guitars. However, while this relic job is pretty good, it's not at the same level of detail as a Suhr or Anderson, which again, I expect at this price point. The most egregious part of this relicing are the jagged edges along the bass-side of the body. Instead of smoothly sanded edges to make it feel like the guitar has been played for years, it feels like the wood was chipped away, burned with a soldering iron and then lacquered over, creating rough teeth along the edges the bit into my forearm after about 30 min of playing. After two hours, my arm was raw. This is 100% my biggest issue with this guitar. May not be a problem with the non-reliced versions.
> 
> *Sustain: *While the body is decently resonant, I had much higher expectations for a $4k custom shop guitar. Once again, this is probably more on me than the guitar.
> Overall, the Space T is great. It's certainly on par with some of my nicer guitars—Ibanez Prestiges, my Warmoth strat, Gibson LP standard—but it still doesn't feel quite as premium as my #1, my Music Man JP15, which was $1000 cheaper. For $4k, I had higher expectations, and maybe that's my fault, idk. If this guitar was $1k to $1.5k cheaper I think I'd keep it, but alas, that's not the case. I have already emailed Ivan to begin the return



It’s a shame. They are getting greedy. I like mine for $3200 but I did have to do some mods which I thought were lame for a guitar at this price point.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Will XS01 said:


> Been running with my J Larada since last May and I'm deeply in love with this guitar. Here's a lil visual we did with it. Hope yall enjoy!



Looks and sounds awesome man ! Good job with the track and visuals !

As for my J Larada 7, I’ve sadly decided to sell it since Covid put a financial strain on our household.

If someone in the Montreal (Canada) area is interested (local pickup), DM me.


----------



## Dayn

Hundreds of pages ago I wished them success, but I probably should've caveated 'success' as more than financial. The QC stories are atrocious for the price. The Agile that I took a gamble on importing has nothing near the issues posted here.


----------



## nathanmachine

hey, i'm wondering if someone can provide a little clarity on how they get in on these guitars when they drop. i don't see a way to already have your billing info in there to make it one click like some have mentioned. i also don't understand what some people mean when they have referenced their shopify code? any tips would be appreciated ahead of the next drop

thanks


----------



## Jeffrey Bain

nathanmachine said:


> hey, i'm wondering if someone can provide a little clarity on how they get in on these guitars when they drop. i don't see a way to already have your billing info in there to make it one click like some have mentioned. i also don't understand what some people mean when they have referenced their shopify code? any tips would be appreciated ahead of the next drop
> 
> thanks


If you download an app called "Shop" (shopify's tracking app) it allows you to essentially check out by clicking one button and entering your Shopify code that's generated. Not sure if this is the one click ordering they're talking about, but I've used it on other automotive sites before and it's pretty slick.


----------



## nathanmachine

I have another question for those on the forum who are really familiar with Abasi Larada guitars. I'm trying to figure out what all of the actual differences in specs between the different Larada guitars.

I've email the company and asked but they haven't responded which although is to be expected at a small company, still is kind of weak in my opinion. 

They all seem to have the exact same shape and body type.

1) Master: alder bodies, maple necks, and richlite or maple fingerboards. The key here seems to be one piece neck thru body.
2) Larada J: basswood bodies, wenge necks, ebony or maple fingerboards. Made in Japan. Difference seems to be bolt on neck. Site mentions oviform + - asymmetrical neck design but as far as I can tell there are zero details on what this refers to and the models don't have specs listed.
3) Spartan: swamp ash bodies, maple neck/ebony fingerboard. Neck thru like the masters. Matte satin, open-grain finish. Made in USA. Key differences seems to be six strings here so the compound radius neck is just 10"-14", and using Abasi locking tuners vs. hipshots on the Master, and Gotoh 510 trem bridges, vs. individual extended range individual bridge saddles on the masters. 
4) Legion: basswood bodies, wenge necks, eboy fingerboards. Again Abasi locking tuners vs. Hipshot. Bolt on neck. Fretwire is listed at X-Jumbo stainless steel, not sure if that is different than the Master's Jescar steel. Neck shape is listed as Thin "U" but other Larada's neck shapes are not listed so I can't tell. Other specs include 2 reinforcement rods with the truss rod, but it is unlisted on the others so that might be standard for them as well. 

That's all I can see. To be honest, the website is so sparse that it is clearly meant only for those who have been following their story deeply for the last several years as someone going to it with no personal knowledge of Abasi guitars would need to spend time just to figure out what I've listed above.

Any help and advice, or corrections on the differences would be really appreciated. Specifically I'm interested in an 8 string, but am trying to figure out the true differences in these models.


----------



## Avedas

Ze_F said:


> Quick (?) review on a Larada seven with floyd. What I like to play, have been to 8 strings (have a tam10 and a tam100), but 7 is fine for me.
> 
> Bought from Ikebe, very nice customer service.
> 
> First, for some context : I own something like 50 guitars, Acoustics, classical, electric, a bass ot 2 (Ibanez mostly, but Fender custom and US too, Schecter, 3 padalka, 3 skervesen, Taylor etc), and have been playing for 30 years or so. On and off.
> 
> Mine is supposed to be a custom model, Ebony Fretboard, wenge neck, Roasted baswood, Burl maple top, black
> View attachment 103049
> 
> 
> It was 2K USD plus shipping to Switzerland (I can never get a Larada on the site, don't want a bot or to wake up at 4 in the morning)
> 
> So, I have no idea if it's made in japan Like the legions or in the US, but there's a pic of Abasi holding it, seems genuine. And the guy signed it. No serial, nothing...
> 
> Plus :
> Plays great, sounds awesome, very defined. And I love the Larada looks.
> 
> Minus :
> The attention to details. The trem pit is unsanded and looks rushed, no comment on the back routing, it's messy, almost incomplete looking.
> The truss rod wheel cavity looks rushed.
> The upper side of the fretboard from fret 12 up to 17 has been filed by an elephant, never seen something so blatantly unprofessional.
> Ho, and something I never, ever saw before, there was the plastic cover on the pickups. Not the adhesive ones mind you, the one that propably came with the pickup inside the box...wrapping the whole thing.
> The neck joint around frets 21 - 24 has some discoloration, probably from the varnish/glue whatever.
> From afar, looks gorgeous, from up close, not so much.
> 
> TLDR :
> So, It was, as far as Laradas go, quite a bargain. I love the looks, the design of the guitar is great, the sounds and playability are up there, I'll keep it. But I would have discarded it in an Indo Ibanez as a very weak instrument.
> 
> Too bad, when they took the time, everything is fine and really great, but they rushed too many things.
> 
> Ikebe is not to blame, there were many pictures, and I should have been more cautious.
> 
> So, just my 2 cents on the Larada I own.


I remember seeing this guitar as well, although it wasn't one of the ones I tried. The most surprising thing to me is you got it for 2k. I legitimately thought Ikebe would never drop the prices on these things and just hold on to them forever like they do with a lot of their niche stock. I think they still have some Mayos over at Ikebe Shibuya that have been sitting on the wall for like 7-8+ years at the same price.


----------



## CW7

Avedas said:


> I remember seeing this guitar as well, although it wasn't one of the ones I tried. The most surprising thing to me is you got it for 2k. I legitimately thought Ikebe would never drop the prices on these things and just hold on to them forever like they do with a lot of their niche stock. I think they still have some Mayos over at Ikebe Shibuya that have been sitting on the wall for like 7-8+ years at the same price.


You’d be surprised- those stores deal . I bought two Strandbergs from them and they were both a nice chunk off the asking. They usually take offers, and many times will take a nice amount less than that. You just have to ask


----------



## TheHardwareChap

More Master 6s this Sunday. Looks like more frequent drops this year


----------



## TheHardwareChap

PVRP Master 6 looks good


----------



## Cockandballs

TheHardwareChap said:


> More Master 6s this Sunday. Looks like more frequent drops this e


Eh.


----------



## Cockandballs

asandwich said:


> So I got the Champagne Supernova Space T yesterday, and I have to say, I'm a little disappointed; as I said to my ex, "it's me, baby, not you".
> **Before I dig in, I had the guitar shipped to my parent's in NJ as I live in NYC and don't trust mail thieves. I was over there yesterday to play-test the guitar for a few hours but didn't take photos. I'll take some tomorrow when I'm back and will update this post with pics.
> Ok, so the good stuff first...
> 
> *Setup:* The guitar was perfectly set up out of the box, with fairly low action—especially for a tele—and no dead notes. I could easily bend up two whole steps above the 12th fret without having a note fret out or go dead, which is awesome. The bone nut is perfectly cut and seated.
> 
> *Neck: *The unique shape of the neck joint gives you a lot of wood to grip to get leverage for big bends, which I thought was pretty cool. Due to the shape of the upper bout, transitioning past the 12th fret does take getting used to, but after like 20 minutes of playing I was adjusting easily. The neck itself is a really unique shape—a deep D, almost soft V shape at the top of the neck, and flattening out significantly towards the bottom. Really cool.
> 
> *Body: *The body shape fits perfect for playing in the classical position, which I usually do when I'm playing for long periods of time. The guitar is also CRAZY light. Like, I've never played a guitar so light. It comes in at just over 6 lbs.
> 
> *Paint: *The paint job is fucking gorgeous; the sparkles catch the light super well.
> 
> *Sustain: *Overall pretty resonant, but not really any more or less than my other mid-to-high-end guitars.
> 
> *Electronics:* Greg Koch Fishman pickup set rules. Super versatile, as the two different voices can take you from bebop lines to shoegaze, to punk and even hardcore.
> 
> *Hardware:* Tuners and hardware are all pretty much perfect, at least for my needs (E standard w/ 10s).
> Now the not so great...
> 
> *Neck dive:* While not outrageous, this guitar dives about as much as your average Gibson SG. When your arm is anchoring the body—especially while playing in the classical position—it's barely noticeable, but it's there. This body shape would probably work way better as a headless.
> 
> *Frets: *So the frets are finished well enough—no sprout or sharp ends—but they are not perfect. And at this price point, I expect perfection, along the lines of a Music Man or an Ibanez J.Custom.
> 
> *Fretboard: *I just don't think I really jive with richlite fretboards. This is my issue, and not the guitar's. It just feels... cheap? Makes the guitar feel more "toy-like" IMO.
> 
> *Relic:* Yes, I bought this knowing that it's reliced, and yes, I like relic guitars. However, while this relic job is pretty good, it's not at the same level of detail as a Suhr or Anderson, which again, I expect at this price point. The most egregious part of this relicing are the jagged edges along the bass-side of the body. Instead of smoothly sanded edges to make it feel like the guitar has been played for years, it feels like the wood was chipped away, burned with a soldering iron and then lacquered over, creating rough teeth along the edges the bit into my forearm after about 30 min of playing. After two hours, my arm was raw. This is 100% my biggest issue with this guitar. May not be a problem with the non-reliced versions.
> 
> *Sustain: *While the body is decently resonant, I had much higher expectations for a $4k custom shop guitar. Once again, this is probably more on me than the guitar.
> Overall, the Space T is great. It's certainly on par with some of my nicer guitars—Ibanez Prestiges, my Warmoth strat, Gibson LP standard—but it still doesn't feel quite as premium as my #1, my Music Man JP15, which was $1000 cheaper. For $4k, I had higher expectations, and maybe that's my fault, idk. If this guitar was $1k to $1.5k cheaper I think I'd keep it, but alas, that's not the case. I have already emailed Ivan to begin the return process


Did you return it? Will we see this on the next drop


----------



## asandwich

Cockandballs said:


> Did you return it? Will we see this on the next drop


Indeed, I did; definitely bummed that it didn't feel the way I expected it to. You won't see the guitar live tomorrow, as it arrives in LA on Tuesday and Ivan mentioned needing a few days to process it. Hopefully all goes well with shipping and you'll see it live on the site by next weekend.


----------



## Cockandballs

asandwich said:


> Indeed, I did; definitely bummed that it didn't feel the way I expected it to. You won't see the guitar live tomorrow, as it arrives in LA on Tuesday and Ivan mentioned needing a few days to process it. Hopefully all goes well with shipping and you'll see it live on the site by next weekend.


cool. I feel like these guitars are turning into Ed Hardy clothes - they were super hot, and then they became - eh. I'm in the process of trying to sell mine because I just received another Aristides and they are just pretty much flawless.


----------



## Church2224

Subscribing, Just taking a look at these guitars.

While It has possibly been discussed, how are the Abasi J Series models? Really would like a 7 and 8 string model...









J Larada 8 // Sage // Maple FB


Made in Japan at Dyna Gakki with the passion and precision that Japanese craft is renowned for worldwide. The bolt-on construction brings a snappiness and resonant character that is a welcome addition to the Larada family. These guitars feature the original specs of the first iteration of the...




abasiconcepts.com













J Larada 7 // Chalk // Maple FB


Made in Japan at Dyna Gakki with the passion and precision that Japanese craft is renowned for worldwide. The bolt-on construction brings a snappiness and resonant character that is a welcome addition to the Larada family. These guitars feature the original specs of the first iteration of the...




abasiconcepts.com


----------



## CW7

Church2224 said:


> Subscribing, Just taking a look at these guitars.
> 
> While It has possibly been discussed, how are the Abasi J Series models? Really would like a 7 and 8 string model...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J Larada 8 // Sage // Maple FB
> 
> 
> Made in Japan at Dyna Gakki with the passion and precision that Japanese craft is renowned for worldwide. The bolt-on construction brings a snappiness and resonant character that is a welcome addition to the Larada family. These guitars feature the original specs of the first iteration of the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abasiconcepts.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J Larada 7 // Chalk // Maple FB
> 
> 
> Made in Japan at Dyna Gakki with the passion and precision that Japanese craft is renowned for worldwide. The bolt-on construction brings a snappiness and resonant character that is a welcome addition to the Larada family. These guitars feature the original specs of the first iteration of the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> abasiconcepts.com


The Js are cool. I found the 7 more ideal vs the 8. The 8 was a touch chunky for my liking (the USAs are lighter and sleeker by comparison). BUT- I found the fit and finish on the J stuff to be a cut above the USA , for the most part (the exception being the USA 6 I got ; that one is a more premium feeling axe all around).


----------



## Inceptic

How much $$$ did today's batch go for?


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Inceptic said:


> How much $$$ did today's batch go for?


Probably 3899 + 85 shipping?


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

$3699 for the purple and $3599 for the green.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

TheInvisibleHand said:


> $3699 for the purple and $3599 for the green.


Really? Damn both are less than my mystic dream


----------



## Lordcephid

[


TheHardwareChap said:


> Really? Damn both are less than my mystic dream


pretty sure there's an upcharge for mystic dream finish


----------



## SCJR

I've only seen one mention of pretty considerable neck dive on these. Has anyone else experienced that? 

The design just seems to beg for it more than almost any other I've seen..


----------



## BigViolin

I tried a Legion and quite liked it but couldn't deal with it being neck heavy even in classical position.

The design will greatly benefit when they go headless.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

asandwich said:


> Indeed, I did; definitely bummed that it didn't feel the way I expected it to. You won't see the guitar live tomorrow, as it arrives in LA on Tuesday and Ivan mentioned needing a few days to process it. Hopefully all goes well with shipping and you'll see it live on the site by next weekend.


@Cockandballs looks like it's already up https://abasiconcepts.com/products/larada-space-t-champagne-supernova


----------



## Cockandballs

TheHardwareChap said:


> @Cockandballs looks like it's already up https://abasiconcepts.com/products/larada-space-t-champagne-supernova


thanks I already a few of these and love them, but not enough to pay $3899 (Bought mine when they were $3199).


----------



## pterodaniel

There are 2 Champagne Larada Master Series available direct from Abasi. They aren't on the site but they are available. One is pristine and the other has a chip of paint next to the toggle switch. $3800 and $3900. I Just got my hands on a Pink Larada 8 Master Series used I paid $4K, otherwise, I would jump on this. HMU if you want more details.


----------



## shredmechanic

nathanmachine said:


> I have another question for those on the forum who are really familiar with Abasi Larada guitars. I'm trying to figure out what all of the actual differences in specs between the different Larada guitars.
> 
> I've email the company and asked but they haven't responded which although is to be expected at a small company, still is kind of weak in my opinion.
> 
> They all seem to have the exact same shape and body type.
> 
> 1) Master: alder bodies, maple necks, and richlite or maple fingerboards. The key here seems to be one piece neck thru body.
> 2) Larada J: basswood bodies, wenge necks, ebony or maple fingerboards. Made in Japan. Difference seems to be bolt on neck. Site mentions oviform + - asymmetrical neck design but as far as I can tell there are zero details on what this refers to and the models don't have specs listed.
> 3) Spartan: swamp ash bodies, maple neck/ebony fingerboard. Neck thru like the masters. Matte satin, open-grain finish. Made in USA. Key differences seems to be six strings here so the compound radius neck is just 10"-14", and using Abasi locking tuners vs. hipshots on the Master, and Gotoh 510 trem bridges, vs. individual extended range individual bridge saddles on the masters.
> 4) Legion: basswood bodies, wenge necks, eboy fingerboards. Again Abasi locking tuners vs. Hipshot. Bolt on neck. Fretwire is listed at X-Jumbo stainless steel, not sure if that is different than the Master's Jescar steel. Neck shape is listed as Thin "U" but other Larada's neck shapes are not listed so I can't tell. Other specs include 2 reinforcement rods with the truss rod, but it is unlisted on the others so that might be standard for them as well.
> 
> That's all I can see. To be honest, the website is so sparse that it is clearly meant only for those who have been following their story deeply for the last several years as someone going to it with no personal knowledge of Abasi guitars would need to spend time just to figure out what I've listed above.
> 
> Any help and advice, or corrections on the differences would be really appreciated. Specifically I'm interested in an 8 string, but am trying to figure out the true differences in these models.


You're not the only one I've emailed them multiple times and never once received a response. Abasi customer service doesn't exist


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

pterodaniel said:


> There are 2 Champagne Larada Master Series available direct from Abasi. They aren't on the site but they are available. One is pristine and the other has a chip of paint next to the toggle switch. $3800 and $3900. I Just got my hands on a Pink Larada 8 Master Series used I paid $4K, otherwise, I would jump on this. HMU if you want more details.
> 
> View attachment 104008
> View attachment 104009


uh....what?


----------



## Cockandballs

T


TheInvisibleHand said:


> uh....what?



It’s a return. The returns are popping up


----------



## Thrav

Hey all, I have a masters on the way, selling my Charcoal Legion 8 with an upgraded fishman batt pack, installed by a professional luthier. I’ll part with it for 2200 if anyone is interested.


----------



## Bassnguitar

Do the J laradas have QC issues as well? Or was it mostly the USA and legions?


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Used master 8 on reverb. Decent price compared to all the legions on there


----------



## Why the ear man

So I ordered one of the Champagne Master Series 8 directly from Abasi that info was posted about about 10 days ago. There were 2 options, a "like-new" return and a blemished one. I went for the "like-new". He sent me a link to purchase and they even shipped it out that day. Very quick to get it done and I really appreciated it because a champagne was exactly what I was looking to purchase on the last drop but missed out. But I really appreciate them getting back so quickly and willing to sell.

So I received the "like new" Abasi Master Series 8 on Wednesday night, and opened the box to find out that it was shipped in the Legion series plastic case and not a G&G hard shell case that USA guitars are shipped with. I opened the case and my eyes darted to what I thought was a hair and instead saw a scratch about an 3/4 of an inch long right by the top side of the fretboard on the body. I picked up the guitar which I must admit felt great and extremely light in weight, but then I noticed that the frets were sharp to the touch. They are not terrible but certainly noticeable, especially on a "like-new" guitar with a roasted maple fingerboard. I also noticed that the black inlay on the 24th fret almost appears to be like a sticker which was placed onto a fretboard that had a few bumps, so obviously you can see them in the inlay dots. As I was plugging it in to play, I did also notice that the rechargeable USB slot on the back is for some reason sideways, which I tried to correct, but unfortunately is directly connected to the back plate. Not bad, just weird. Needless to say I was disappointed as this was my first Abasi guitar and I was hoping for it to not be my last.

Obviously, I am not extremely happy right now with this experience after spending a lot more than that used Master 8 on Reverb, for a boutique style guitar that has several issues. I am most bothered by the fact that I received the non-USA G&G hard shell case and the fact that the guitar had a noticeable scratch on the body. I almost feel I would have been better off getting the less expensive, blemished guitar since I already knew about the flaw it had from the pictures sent to me and it wasn't considered "like-new". I can correct the issues with the sharp frets but unfortunately cannot repair the scratch on the satin finish.

I have emailed both Ivan and customer service just to see if I can get correct case at least. Aside from that, I thoroughly love the guitar. It definitely needed a setup, and doesn't feel quite as nice as my Music Man JP, Majesty or Kiesel but certainly a comfortable, ergonomic, easy playing 8 string with some slight QC issues unfortunately. But I do plan on keeping it, I just hope for a response from their team to at least acknowledge the issues as hopefully replace the case. Attached are some pictures.


----------



## sleep51

Why the ear man said:


> So I ordered one of the Champagne Master Series 8 directly from Abasi that info was posted about about 10 days ago. There were 2 options, a "like-new" return and a blemished one. I went for the "like-new". He sent me a link to purchase and they even shipped it out that day. Very quick to get it done and I really appreciated it because a champagne was exactly what I was looking to purchase on the last drop but missed out. But I really appreciate them getting back so quickly and willing to sell.
> 
> So I received the "like new" Abasi Master Series 8 on Wednesday night, and opened the box to find out that it was shipped in the Legion series plastic case and not a G&G hard shell case that USA guitars are shipped with. I opened the case and my eyes darted to what I thought was a hair and instead saw a scratch about an 3/4 of an inch long right by the top side of the fretboard on the body. I picked up the guitar which I must admit felt great and extremely light in weight, but then I noticed that the frets were sharp to the touch. They are not terrible but certainly noticeable, especially on a "like-new" guitar with a roasted maple fingerboard. I also noticed that the black inlay on the 24th fret almost appears to be like a sticker which was placed onto a fretboard that had a few bumps, so obviously you can see them in the inlay dots. As I was plugging it in to play, I did also notice that the rechargeable USB slot on the back is for some reason sideways, which I tried to correct, but unfortunately is directly connected to the back plate. Not bad, just weird. Needless to say I was disappointed as this was my first Abasi guitar and I was hoping for it to not be my last.
> 
> Obviously, I am not extremely happy right now with this experience after spending a lot more than that used Master 8 on Reverb, for a boutique style guitar that has several issues. I am most bothered by the fact that I received the non-USA G&G hard shell case and the fact that the guitar had a noticeable scratch on the body. I almost feel I would have been better off getting the less expensive, blemished guitar since I already knew about the flaw it had from the pictures sent to me and it wasn't considered "like-new". I can correct the issues with the sharp frets but unfortunately cannot repair the scratch on the satin finish.
> 
> I have emailed both Ivan and customer service just to see if I can get correct case at least. Aside from that, I thoroughly love the guitar. It definitely needed a setup, and doesn't feel quite as nice as my Music Man JP, Majesty or Kiesel but certainly a comfortable, ergonomic, easy playing 8 string with some slight QC issues unfortunately. But I do plan on keeping it, I just hope for a response from their team to at least acknowledge the issues as hopefully replace the case. Attached are some pictures.


This is the same case they used for the entire master run your guitar is from. You got the same as everybody else. I haven’t seen this other case, what’s the difference?


----------



## shredmechanic

I gotta' say watching guys drop $3k on guitars with Agile-level QC is the 2022 guitar meme I didn't know I needed. It's like Abasi guitars is becoming Gibson for the Millennial generation


----------



## Why the ear man

sleep51 said:


> This is the same case they used for the entire master run your guitar is from. You got the same as everybody else. I haven’t seen this other case, what’s the difference?


That is completely my mistake. It looks like this run all shipped out in the molded cases and not the G&G cases as they always have in the past. Attached is the picture.

Marshall from their customer service team actually got back to me really quickly after sending the email to him and let me know that they just began shipping them in the molded cases recently, so that was my apologies as it is the correct case.

He also offered to do a return on the guitar if I wanted to and/or exchange the case for a G&G branded case paying shipping as well, which I thought was incredibly generous.

I have read a lot of people saying their customer service isn't the greatest, but I can certainly say that they have been hands down great in my experience.

But I do plan on keeping the guitar because despite the couple of imperfections, it is a nice, comfortable playing 8 string.


----------



## sleep51

Why the ear man said:


> That is completely my mistake. It looks like this run all shipped out in the molded cases and not the G&G cases as they always have in the past. Attached is the picture.
> 
> Marshall from their customer service team actually got back to me really quickly after sending the email to him and let me know that they just began shipping them in the molded cases recently, so that was my apologies as it is the correct case.
> 
> He also offered to do a return on the guitar if I wanted to and/or exchange the case for a G&G branded case paying shipping as well, which I thought was incredibly generous.
> 
> I have read a lot of people saying their customer service isn't the greatest, but I can certainly say that they have been hands down great in my experience.
> 
> But I do plan on keeping the guitar because despite the couple of imperfections, it is a nice, comfortable playing 8 string.





Why the ear man said:


> That is completely my mistake. It looks like this run all shipped out in the molded cases and not the G&G cases as they always have in the past. Attached is the picture.
> 
> Marshall from their customer service team actually got back to me really quickly after sending the email to him and let me know that they just began shipping them in the molded cases recently, so that was my apologies as it is the correct case.
> 
> He also offered to do a return on the guitar if I wanted to and/or exchange the case for a G&G branded case paying shipping as well, which I thought was incredibly generous.
> 
> I have read a lot of people saying their customer service isn't the greatest, but I can certainly say that they have been hands down great in my experience.
> 
> But I do plan on keeping the guitar because despite the couple of imperfections, it is a nice, comfortable playing 8 string.



I see, that case looks a step up. It’s a real shame at this point that they’re seemingly still so inconsistent with almost every aspect of their business and craftsmanship, because in the end I still believe in the quality and playability of their instruments, once they actually make it into the customers hands as described and without error. I have the identical guitar to yours from their January run and it’s the best guitar I’ve owned.

Edit for clarity: I don’t mean to trash their customer service at all. Ivan seems like a good dude who is gracious in dealing with the problems coming from their workshop


----------



## Why the ear man

sleep51 said:


> I see, that case looks a step up. It’s a real shame at this point that they’re seemingly still so inconsistent with almost every aspect of their business and craftsmanship, because in the end I still believe in the quality and playability of their instruments, once they actually make it into the customers hands as described and without error. I have the identical guitar to yours from their January run and it’s the best guitar I’ve owned.
> 
> Edit for clarity: I don’t mean to trash their customer service at all. Ivan seems like a good dude who is gracious in dealing with the problems coming from their workshop


Yeah, the case is a bit nicer. I think it was just more of a shock to me since I saw all others come with the G&G case.

But this is certainly an amazing guitar, and the playability is by far the best I played on an 8 string. Just those 2 little issues. I am still believing in the quality of their instruments as well. But it is a shame that sometimes there are issues. Bu again, this is just me doing this with a fine tooth comb and seeing other people speak about the QC issues may have even put me on alert to search for issues with a lot more scrutiny.

But to me their customer service has been fantastic and wanted to help resolve any issues. I don't think this will be my last Abasi. But hopefully my last Abasi with those couple of flaws.


----------



## Buffnuggler

I still cant believe Tosin left Ibanez, he had some of the sickest LACS guitars ever, I wonder why they fell out, it seemed like they really believed in him considering that Tak Hosono made him his first 7 before he had even dropped his first Animals as Leaders album. That guitar had all the stops.

Lots of players have pushed their way past the endorsement space into the business space but its tough to make that work a lot of the time. Endless respect to Tosin and Im glad hes following his dreams but I wouldve just kept the LACS access instead of chasing this rabbit. I feel like these companies do better with lower quality guitars, I get that Tosin designed these but the “new guitar design” space is so full, and its not like anything has topped a telecaster exactly, changed it sure, but beaten it in a utilitarian sense? Leo got it pretty close to perfect.

I could never get into the “womp womp” 8 string style beyond Tosin though, it all just sounded like imitation, Weightless is sick, but hes the only guy who does that style and makes it sound good to my ears.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Jeez Ish Guitars is selling a used Master 6 Amberburst for $4500. Way over MSRP. Thought it was a pretty reputable store


----------



## mastapimp

TheHardwareChap said:


> Jeez Ish Guitars is selling a used Master 6 Amberburst for $4500. Way over MSRP. Thought it was a pretty reputable store


You can always make an offer that you think is reasonable and they could sell it to you or negotiate. Back before eBay and Reverb, you could easily talk down asking prices in person or over the phone, especially with used gear. Even Musicians Friend will knock off a few hundred bucks here and there if you ask them nicely.


----------



## JSanta

TheHardwareChap said:


> Jeez Ish Guitars is selling a used Master 6 Amberburst for $4500. Way over MSRP. Thought it was a pretty reputable store



They are, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to try and maximize every dollar from a sale. They had a JM Super Eagle listed at $22k (almost double what they sold new) and someone bought it. Not sure for how much, but it sold. They are still a business at the end of the day, and if people are willing to pay a premium, why wouldn't they capitalize on that?


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

Surprised this thread/website didn't go wild the second Abasi announced a prototype of a classical larada.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Why the ear man said:


> That is completely my mistake. It looks like this run all shipped out in the molded cases and not the G&G cases as they always have in the past. Attached is the picture.
> 
> Marshall from their customer service team actually got back to me really quickly after sending the email to him and let me know that they just began shipping them in the molded cases recently, so that was my apologies as it is the correct case.
> 
> He also offered to do a return on the guitar if I wanted to and/or exchange the case for a G&G branded case paying shipping as well, which I thought was incredibly generous.
> 
> I have read a lot of people saying their customer service isn't the greatest, but I can certainly say that they have been hands down great in my experience.
> 
> But I do plan on keeping the guitar because despite the couple of imperfections, it is a nice, comfortable playing 8 string.


Their customer service is great. Always had good communication with them. I would definitely return it.


----------



## Dayn

FromTheMausoleum said:


> Surprised this thread/website didn't go wild the second Abasi announced a prototype of a classical larada.



I was pretty excited years ago when he asked if people would be interested. The horror stories in this thread pretty much killed my interest.


----------



## SCJR

Dayn said:


> I was pretty excited years ago when he asked if people would be interested. The horror stories in this thread pretty much killed my interest.



Same. Maybe about 100 pages back or so I'd have been all over it lol. Though I'm sure the price tag is gonna really sting on that one.


----------



## Why the ear man

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Their customer service is great. Always had good communication with them. I would definitely return it.


Were you saying to return the guitar, case or both?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Dayn said:


> I was pretty excited years ago when he asked if people would be interested. The horror stories in this thread pretty much killed my interest.





This thread has pretty much completely killed any desire I had for one or these or working with any of the principles involved. Big no thanks.


----------



## cip 123

Buffnuggler said:


> I still cant believe Tosin left Ibanez, he had some of the sickest LACS guitars ever, I wonder why they fell out, it seemed like they really believed in him considering that Tak Hosono made him his first 7 before he had even dropped his first Animals as Leaders album. That guitar had all the stops.
> 
> Lots of players have pushed their way past the endorsement space into the business space but its tough to make that work a lot of the time. Endless respect to Tosin and Im glad hes following his dreams but I wouldve just kept the LACS access instead of chasing this rabbit. I feel like these companies do better with lower quality guitars, I get that Tosin designed these but the “new guitar design” space is so full, and its not like anything has topped a telecaster exactly, changed it sure, but beaten it in a utilitarian sense? Leo got it pretty close to perfect.
> 
> I could never get into the “womp womp” 8 string style beyond Tosin though, it all just sounded like imitation, Weightless is sick, but hes the only guy who does that style and makes it sound good to my ears.


He's explained why he left Ibanez multiple times, things didn't move fast enough for him.

He was never staying just for LACS access, LACS is insanely cool, but if you're Tosin and you want any kind of guitar made you can find someone to do it, so staying just for that would be weird. 

Ibanez wouldn't have released multiple tiers for this design, and Tosin wouldn't be running things the way they are now. However many horror stories you hear, the money more directly comes back to Tosin which means he's probably better off than he was with Ibanez. 

There are still teething problems, but if this brand lasts a few more years it'll be solid. 

New guitar design space isn't really that full, new designs are usually by independent luthiers not on this scale, I don't know why you're trying to compare this to a tele. Tosin never set out to be Fender, of course there is the space T but it's on the Abasi design. Should every other company stop because "It's not a Telecaster?" someone tell Ibanez quick.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The overriding theme throughout this entire endeavor is "impatience". Every step of the way. 

Ibanez isn't going fast enough. Kiesel isn't going fast enough. Falbo isn't going fast enough. The landlord isn't going fast enough. WMI isn't going fast enough. Grover Jackson isn't going fast enough. And as each subsequent entity fails to go fast enough a step in the process meant to secure quality is bypassed or removed wholesale. 

So we're better part of a decade deep now and still no one knows what they're going to get when they open the box. 

Yeah. No thanks. Maybe these can be great, but I'll check again in decade two.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Why the ear man said:


> Were you saying to return the guitar, case or both?


Both. But that’s just me.

At that price, I would want an instrument with zero defects. That’s not an unrealistic bar to set.

If you still want one, you could ask them to send you a purchase link when they have another one in stock that is truly mint. Just a thought…


----------



## chasingtheclown

Some of you may have seen my earlier post on a master series I picked up during the last drop and had returned it for some very obvious QC issues. Just this last week I found another master that was from the same drop that someone was selling and decided let me give this another shot. The guitar was essentially mint and could not tell anything from photos provided. But then it came…

The fretboard on this was a nightmare. I don’t know what it was but it was on almost every fret going down and did not seem like it could have been dirt and grime because I tried wiping it down with a damp cloth. Almost felt like the fretboard was peeling and some spots looks to be damaged and rough. I’ve seen richlite boards before and they are smooth as butter. Considering this was a January release I don’t see how this could have been done by the owner. I even recall my original master series having similar markings on some parts of the fretboard but not as bad as this one. I didn’t bother taking this to my local tech to see if it could be fixed because again I shouldn’t have to for a 4K guitar. Definitely won’t give it another shot anytime soon. Sent back


----------



## Cockandballs

Man I sold all of mine Abasi guitars after getting the Aristides. Aristides are just flawless in every possible way. Just got one of their teles and it was so much better than my space tele. I did not want to get stuck and just kind of got over the hype. They’re turning into the Ed Hardy of guitars. Remember when Ed Hardy was hot shit, longest line in LA and now you can’t give that shit away.


----------



## porchy

After digesting the J-Larada and the Master 6 for over half a year, I think there’s a happy middle ground between people hyping these up and people completely trashing them.

With no unforeseen circumstances in the future, I am unlikely to ever sell my J8. Every time I pick that thing up, it looks, feels, and plays awesomely. It’s literally unlike any other guitar I’ve played (where else can you get the inverted asymmetrical neck?), and that is worth the price for me. 

The Master had some growing pains, but I start to wonder if this forum is just giving people reasons to look for flaws. Several people have tried it and said it’s one of the smoothest, coolest guitars they’ve played. And these are all people who have 0 idea about Tosin, his style, etc. 

I think people need to remember that you don’t have to buy one of these. It’s a luxury item. Anything for $4k is.


----------



## StevenC

Did anyone ever weigh their J8 or Master 8?


----------



## jephjacques

I can't believe people are still rolling the dice on these


----------



## SCJR

It seems like at the prices these are getting to along with the percentage of them that have issues that a company like ESP/E-II or even EBMM could do something that directly competes with the Abasi's features and general aesthetic.

Not necessarily overly-approximate the body shape or headstock but rather just the modern appointments of SS frets, multiscale, even asymmetrical neck patterns.

Barring some blatant disincentive for either of those manufacturers to produce something in that space, I don't see why they couldn't find a market and profit. You'd think it would instantly appeal as a competitively-price alternative with much better QC/fit and finish. Or at the very least you'd know you bought a guitar from a company that answers their customers' emails. I'm all for growing the little guy but c'mon.

Edit: I wonder if the Petrucci 8 was a litmus test for EBMM to see the response to their version of an ERG offering. You'd think it obviously would have been but AFAIK they've been pretty much silent since then about a production 7/8 outside of the JP's.


----------



## jephjacques

I doubt we'll see any more 8s from EBMM, and probably no 7s outside the JP line.


----------



## millenarianism

I’ve seen a few Legion 8’s from the December run show up for sale with awful fretboard cracks. I even had a fretboard crack on mine; but it was minor compared to the others I’ve seen. 

I love my Legion 8. It’s had some QC issues and made me weary about potentially upgrading to a Master 8 some day. When I bought my Legion I told myself, one day I’ll get a Master 8. Now, I’m not so sure, and I really don’t think there’s that significant of a difference to warrant upgrading in the first place. Maybe I’m wrong. 

I’d probably only feel comfortable paying for a Master 8 if it came from Tosin’s personal collection; but good luck with that.


----------



## Giest

Buffnuggler said:


> I still cant believe Tosin left Ibanez, he had some of the sickest LACS guitars ever, I wonder why they fell out



He said that he enjoyed working with Ibanez and they were willing to try a lot of the builds he wanted to do, but they took too long to actually produce them. 

Now we see the difference between a company of accomplished luthiers who spend months planning a new instrument and a cash grab that throws things at the wall.


----------



## SCJR

Giest said:


> He said that he enjoyed working with Ibanez and they were willing to try a lot of the builds he wanted to do, but they took too long to actually produce them.
> 
> Now we see the difference between a company of accomplished luthiers who spend months planning a new instrument and a cash grab that throws things at the wall.


Pockets of this industry are catching up to the release model found in many others where the consumers are basically the first or second round of R&D. Software, electronics, etc. For about a decade now it's been throw it out there, see what breaks and what doesn't. If it uses software, patch it later if needed...and usually it's needed.

Solar is having QC issues that are speculated to maybe have something to do with pumping out guitars at a very high clip. But at least they're pumping them out en masse and wholly responding to customer service inquiries, like the ship/return policies or not. But in the Solar thread and elsewhere (btw: are they really deleting people's QC-related FB comments?) the sentiment is slow down and make quality > quantity.

The Abasi's burn harder because of the price tag and the artificial scarcity drummed up by the hype-y drop model through the email list.


----------



## Giest

I recall Kiesel was having problems with cracking fretboards, I can't recall how they solved it but I do remember it came down to how the wood was dried. I know that now they use a kiln over at Kiesel and since then that issue seems to have disappeared. Been a while since I looked in their direction, though. I could be mistaken. If I'm not mistaken then it might be logical to assume Solar is too busy beating the brakes off their production division to care, but there is no doubt in my mind they are aware of nearly all their guitars which have faulted. I assume Abasi Concepts has the same level of awareness though I personally won't speculate on the respective severity.

You're completely right about the modern release model as well, early adopters are frequently now being beta testers. If you can get people hyped enough you sell the hype and then deliver on it, or maybe not. Goes either way a lot. When it doesn't go well people sit around scratching their heads over why the product never fully delivered, and it's because the company didn't have to. They got your money already, and a lot of these outfits aren't in it for the long haul so they don't really need to maintain equity with you unless they're coming back to milk you again. You're the real product, you're the income and the QC- and you pay out the nose to do it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

There's absolutely nothing new about companies making piss poor products, slapping a popular artist's name on it, and hyping the fuck out of it for maximum profit. 

That's always been the game. When I say "nothing new" it can be traced back almost a thousand years to when court musicians would work with builders and share profits of cheaper replicas of what they played. 

The point is profit. Delivering a genuinely good instrument consistently...well, that depends on how ardent the supporters are. 

The fuckery was just a bit more low key before the internet.


----------



## SCJR

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's absolutely nothing new about companies making piss poor products, slapping a popular artist's name on it, and hyping the fuck out of it for maximum profit.
> 
> That's always been the game. When I say "nothing new" it can be traced back almost a thousand years to when court musicians would work with builders and share profits of cheaper replicas of what they played.
> 
> The point is profit. Delivering a genuinely good instrument consistently...well, that depends on how ardent the supporters are.
> 
> The fuckery was just a bit more low key before the internet.



Definitely fair enough, especially the point about things that have always existed coming to light and crossing physical barriers of space and communication as a result of the internet.

That mixed with if someone like Fender or Ibanez had a bad batch they had the overhead to fix it. Abasi, Solar, and others don't have that infrastructure obviously but have the production and QC issues to deal with all the same.

It reminds me of a few years ago when it seemed like everyone who learned how to build a TS circuit not long after had aspirations of started a pedal company or doing custom orders. Not thinking about their relationship to that product once it was sold, i.e. returns and repairs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

SCJR said:


> Definitely fair enough, especially the point about things that have always existed coming to light and crossing physical barriers of space and communication as a result of the internet.
> 
> That mixed with if someone like Fender or Ibanez had a bad batch they had the overhead to fix it. Abasi, Solar, and others don't have that infrastructure obviously but have the production and QC issues to deal with all the same.
> 
> It reminds me of a few years ago when it seemed like everyone who learned how to build a TS circuit not long after had aspirations of started a pedal company or doing custom orders. Not thinking about their relationship to that product once it was sold, i.e. returns and repairs.



Neither Solar or Abasi are actually making guitars. They're contracting with some of the most experienced, long standing OEMs in the industry. 

You're right, it is a money thing, but it's not that they don't have the money, they just rather pocket it and hope for the best. 

I've seen the wholesale prices on the kind of stuff these OEMs make, and even with distributor markup (which neither of these particular companies pay) there are very, very healthy margins.


----------



## SCJR

MaxOfMetal said:


> Neither Solar or Abasi are actually making guitars. They're contracting with some of the most experienced, long standing OEMs in the industry.
> 
> You're right, it is a money thing, but it's not that they don't have the money, they just rather pocket it and hope for the best.
> 
> I've seen the wholesale prices on the kind of stuff these OEMs make, and even with distributor markup (which neither of these particular companies pay) there are very, very healthy margins.



I didn't even think about the disparity of in-house vs. OEM so yeah not a true 1:1 there at all. 

It's a shame because people buy in to something seemingly grassroots, a niche of niche guitars with a small but ready-to-spend customer base who also make up a significant portion of those consuming your albums live shows. They're trying to support an artist or artists more on level with the people than a faceless FMIC type, even if it's not in direct support of him but rather it strictly fills a guitar need, and in the end people are getting burned on $2500-4000 guitars. 

Hard not to be a little cynical these days lol.


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's absolutely nothing new about companies making piss poor products, slapping a popular artist's name on it, and hyping the fuck out of it for maximum profit.


Lookin' at you, ProTone Misha Mansoor Attack Overdrive



SCJR said:


> It reminds me of a few years ago when it seemed like everyone who learned how to build a TS circuit not long after had aspirations of started a pedal company or doing custom orders. Not thinking about their relationship to that product once it was sold, i.e. returns and repairs.


Lookin' at you, ProTone Pedals.


----------



## MrWulf

Contrasting Tosin's whole endeavor vs the Periphery gang, who took their time with their product and partnering with credible manufacturers. Nolly's GGD libraries is everywhere almost to the point of oversaturation. Misha's pedals also sells well with little to no problem (perhaps learning from his ProTone days). 

And then Tosin who seems to just cant make a consistent batch of guitars that doesnt involves luck when it comes to the purchase. But somehow people still throw tons of money at this and for what, a guitar that is not QC nearly as well as one that half its price?


----------



## Alberto7

MrWulf said:


> Contrasting Tosin's whole endeavor vs the Periphery gang, who took their time with their product and partnering with credible manufacturers. Nolly's GGD libraries is everywhere almost to the point of oversaturation. Misha's pedals also sells well with little to no problem (perhaps learning from his ProTone days).
> 
> And then Tosin who seems to just cant make a consistent batch of guitars that doesnt involves luck when it comes to the purchase. But somehow people still throw tons of money at this and for what, a guitar that is not QC nearly as well as one that half its price?



Not justifying the poor QC of Abasi Concepts at all, but QC for a guitar is a vastly different endeavor than for a pedal or a piece of software. Software, once it's done and everything's been patched up, that's it, it's a literal copy paste and customer support. Things can get complicated when you start adding features, etc, but you only have to make those once. A pedal needs a bit more QC, but generally doesn't have as many things that could go wrong with it once the design is solid and the materials are trustworthy.

A guitar is a different beast. It's something a player interacts with quite intimately, and you get to learn and see every detail of it every time you pick it up. Nobody cares if a solder point in a pedal is slightly offset to one side as long as the electrical contact is made correctly, but have a fret be offset by half a millimeter and it just kills the whole experience. The steel and/or aluminum alloys used in a pedal's casing probably doesn't have to be super accurate, but have an improperly dried fretboard and it'll downright crack straight through the middle.

Abasi Concepts still have a responsibility to put out a quality product like they are advertising and charging you money for, but I don't think that the comparison to Misha's pedals and Nolly's software is the best parallel. A guitar is a very different product, with more human and environmental factors that can make it not be what it was intended to be.


----------



## Thaeon

Alberto7 said:


> Not justifying the poor QC of Abasi Concepts at all, but QC for a guitar is a vastly different endeavor than for a pedal or a piece of software. Software, once it's done and everything's been patched up, that's it, it's a literal copy paste and customer support. Things can get complicated when you start adding features, etc, but you only have to make those once. A pedal needs a bit more QC, but generally doesn't have as many things that could go wrong with it once the design is solid and the materials are trustworthy.
> 
> A guitar is a different beast. It's something a player interacts with quite intimately, and you get to learn and see every detail of it every time you pick it up. Nobody cares if a solder point in a pedal is slightly offset to one side as long as the electrical contact is made correctly, but have a fret be offset by half a millimeter and it just kills the whole experience. The steel and/or aluminum alloys used in a pedal's casing probably doesn't have to be super accurate, but have an improperly dried fretboard and it'll downright crack straight through the middle.
> 
> Abasi Concepts still have a responsibility to put out a quality product like they are advertising and charging you money for, but I don't think that the comparison to Misha's pedals and Nolly's software is the best parallel. A guitar is a very different product, with more human and environmental factors that can make it not be what it was intended to be.




Lets not forget that Misha and Nolly have been able to work within to confines of things already existing to see their visions completed. Tosin tried that. Ibanez was open to making his design. But it would have been very costly to get all the CAD work done and to set aside time on the machines to make sure they were done which might cut into production of a better selling instrument. So he took the design and went off on his own to try to sort it out. Lets not forget, his US production guitars come out of the same place as parts of Dunable guitars, and Friedman's whole line of guitars. Its not that the shop can't put out quality, it just may just be having growing pains with his line of instruments. He also doesn't have the filters of having a dealer inspect and set up an instrument for a customer. I'm really more concerned about whether or not they are adequately honoring warranty work.


----------



## MrWulf

Alberto7 said:


> Not justifying the poor QC of Abasi Concepts at all, but QC for a guitar is a vastly different endeavor than for a pedal or a piece of software. Software, once it's done and everything's been patched up, that's it, it's a literal copy paste and customer support. Things can get complicated when you start adding features, etc, but you only have to make those once. A pedal needs a bit more QC, but generally doesn't have as many things that could go wrong with it once the design is solid and the materials are trustworthy.
> 
> A guitar is a different beast. It's something a player interacts with quite intimately, and you get to learn and see every detail of it every time you pick it up. Nobody cares if a solder point in a pedal is slightly offset to one side as long as the electrical contact is made correctly, but have a fret be offset by half a millimeter and it just kills the whole experience. The steel and/or aluminum alloys used in a pedal's casing probably doesn't have to be super accurate, but have an improperly dried fretboard and it'll downright crack straight through the middle.
> 
> Abasi Concepts still have a responsibility to put out a quality product like they are advertising and charging you money for, but I don't think that the comparison to Misha's pedals and Nolly's software is the best parallel. A guitar is a very different product, with more human and environmental factors that can make it not be what it was intended to be.


It is comparable because Nolly and Misha managed to get their product out in advertised time, cost reasonably and little to no bugs/defects. The fact that they also works and fulfilled the hype 

Considering the fact Abasi Concepts charged people an arm and a leg for design for what now, near half a decade? How long is needed for them to "growing pains" stage? Abasi Concepts also went thru multiple manufacturers/luthiers and still has worse QC than literally any Schecter off of my rack. The design is already has hype but not a lot of substance, and it cost way more than it should. But who am i kidding, really.


----------



## Alberto7

MrWulf said:


> It is comparable because Nolly and Misha managed to get their product out in advertised time, cost reasonably and little to no bugs/defects. The fact that they also works and fulfilled the hype
> 
> Considering the fact Abasi Concepts charged people an arm and a leg for design for what now, near half a decade? How long is needed for them to "growing pains" stage? Abasi Concepts also went thru multiple manufacturers/luthiers and still has worse QC than literally any Schecter off of my rack. The design is already has hype but not a lot of substance, and it cost way more than it should. But who am i kidding, really.



Oh yeah, we agree on that point. Abasi should ABSOLUTELY deliver on what they promise, especially at that price. And they've been doing it for long enough that you'd think we'd have a better product by now.

My argument is simply that there's a lot more room for error in what Abasi Concepts does than in what Misha and Nolly do with their respective products. Bringing a fully working, defect-free, completely new guitar design that will *consistently* survive the extremely high standards of its target market is a more difficult task than getting a new pedal to market, or than making the product only once. (Aka software development) Then there's the aspect of repeatability. Making the same guitar twice is more difficult than making the same pedal twice. Nevermind the software, which only gets made once.

But again, it's all about promises. If Abasi can't live up to what it promises to deliver, then we have a problem. And if they can't live up to their warranty claims, then that is an even bigger problem, as @Thaeon already mentioned.

EDIT: keep in mind that I'm saying all this as someone who has NEVER even seen one in person  so take of my comments what you will.


----------



## Thaeon

MrWulf said:


> It is comparable because Nolly and Misha managed to get their product out in advertised time, cost reasonably and little to no bugs/defects. The fact that they also works and fulfilled the hype
> 
> Considering the fact Abasi Concepts charged people an arm and a leg for design for what now, near half a decade? How long is needed for them to "growing pains" stage? Abasi Concepts also went thru multiple manufacturers/luthiers and still has worse QC than literally any Schecter off of my rack. The design is already has hype but not a lot of substance, and it cost way more than it should. But who am i kidding, really.



The cost of the guitars is not relative to the design. Its relative to the costs to manufacture. He's a small builder. So he produces less units. So the cost he has to absorb is far greater than to another company like Ibanez who also makes guitars in Indonesia. As well as Strandberg. Strandberg has a higher cost because the guitars are made in lower numbers than Ibanez. So they cost more. Regardless of cost of materials. Its cheaper to run a long production than it is to retool and run a short run of something else. That cost is always passed down ultimately to the buyer. If you want a perfect instrument, buy a Masterbuilt or something from one of the individual luthiers out there. The cost is about the same. If you want an affordable guitar with a very niche set of specs, you're going to pay more for it. Period. Regardless of quality.


----------



## StevenC

Didn't Misha endorse BRJ at one point?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

StevenC said:


> Didn't Misha endorse BRJ at one point?


yes. There's still some older vids floating around of him playing a jekyl


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Well they're back with another drop this Sunday!


----------



## Cockandballs

Yeah and re-listing all the Space Ts that did not sell.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Cockandballs said:


> Yeah and re-listing all the Space Ts that did not sell.


Small tiny drop. Though I did like that oceanburst


----------



## Cockandballs

TheHardwareChap said:


> Small tiny drop. Though I did like that oceanburst


New dog same fleas


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Cockandballs said:


> New dog same fleas


----------



## Cockandballs

TheHardwareChap said:


>


Sold all my Abasi guitars. Bought all Aristides guitars. Million times better and the finishes I want.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Cockandballs said:


> Sold all my Abasi guitars. Bought all Aristides guitars. Million times better and the finishes I want.


I don't blame you. I really like my mystic dream master 6. Gonna probably keep it for a while. Traded my regius for a PRS Wood Library too. Think I'm done with Abasis. Never tried ab aristides. May need to pick up a 070 someday


----------



## Thrav

So 2 of my guitars were stolen. Apartment was broken into. Fortunately my 060S Aristides came in the day after. Unfortunately it’s 6 string as I placed the order before I transitioned to 8.

Honestly considering looking for someone to trade it for a masters series 8. It’s long shot but man I miss my Abasi.


----------



## RobDobble6S7

Thrav said:


> So my 2 of my guitars were stolen. Apartment was broken into. Fortunately my 060S Aristides came in the day after. Unfortunately it’s 6 string as I placed the order before I transitioned to 8.
> 
> Honestly considering looking for someone to trade it for a masters series 8. It’s long shot but man I miss my Abasi.


Hope you can find those axes, man. So sorry that happened.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Thrav said:


> So 2 of my guitars were stolen. Apartment was broken into. Fortunately my 060S Aristides came in the day after. Unfortunately it’s 6 string as I placed the order before I transitioned to 8.
> 
> Honestly considering looking for someone to trade it for a masters series 8. It’s long shot but man I miss my Abasi.


Sorry to hear that dude. Hopefully the master 8 on reverb isn't yours


----------



## Thrav

TheHardwareChap said:


> Sorry to hear that dude. Hopefully the master 8 on reverb isn't yours


It isn’t, been checking multiple times a day since it was taken. I didn’t even get to take pictures of it yet!!! 

Been calling around pawn and guitar shops too. I live in a really poor neighborhood atm and I’m betting it was someone who had no idea what they were getting their hands on. 

Desperate people doing desperate things.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

hebing_rain said:


> I'm interested, what techniques/elements are essential to writing good solo guitar music? I have a general grasp on soloing and I'm not awful at it (both technique and theory wise), but I just can't seem to be able to put it into a song (or make it sound interesting and non repetitive).





Thrav said:


> So 2 of my guitars were stolen. Apartment was broken into. Fortunately my 060S Aristides came in the day after. Unfortunately it’s 6 string as I placed the order before I transitioned to 8.
> 
> Honestly considering looking for someone to trade it for a masters series 8. It’s long shot but man I miss my Abasi.


Ah man that sucks! I feel for you. Can you make an insurance theft claim?

Do you have the serial numbers? They should be in your Abasi email purchase receipts (?). You could start a stolen guitar thread on this and other forums listing the serials. Maybe someone will come across an ad and spot them.


----------



## Thrav

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Ah man that sucks! I feel for you. Can you make an insurance theft claim?
> 
> Do you have the serial numbers? They should be in your Abasi email purchase receipts (?). You could start a stolen guitar thread on this and other forums listing the serials. Maybe someone will come across an ad and spot them.


Unfortunately no, they won’t cover musical instruments :/. I’ve actually been looking around to cover my Aristides and there’s few options for guitar insurance.


----------



## CanserDYI

Thrav said:


> Unfortunately no, they won’t cover musical instruments :/. I’ve actually been looking around to cover my Aristides and there’s few options for guitar insurance.


Are you in the UK or US? Got some basic specs for the stolen guitars? I'm literally constantly on reverb and ebay and craigslist checking stuff out, I'd be happy to keep an eye out.


----------



## Thrav

CanserDYI said:


> Are you in the UK or US? Got some basic specs for the stolen guitars? I'm literally constantly on reverb and ebay and craigslist checking stuff out, I'd be happy to keep an eye out.


I live in San Antonio, TX. I’ve been checking non-stop but honestly, I fucked up because as I mentioned before I didn’t even take pics so I don’t even have the serial number. I was really busy with work and had to go to the hospital for an old Army injury that has been getting worse. Ik excuses, excuses, could have take two seconds to snap a quick pic.https://abasiconcepts.com/collections/master-series/products/larada-8-master-series-selenite

It was this model ^


I do love my Aristides. It’s by far the best quality guitar I’ve ever had. Although, going from Strandy 8 —> Abasi 8 —> Aristides 060s, it’s a big transition lol, I really disliked the 060S body as someone who plays in a traditional postion, should have went headless. It’s def revealed even more how much I like Abasi’s string tension and closer string spacing. The strings feel floppy af to me compared to my Abasi.

Oh well, time to save up and wait for a masters drop. Or even a J.


----------



## CanserDYI

Is it just me or do Larada's look really odd in 6 string straight scale?


----------



## mechanyx

Thrav said:


> Unfortunately no, they won’t cover musical instruments :/. I’ve actually been looking around to cover my Aristides and there’s few options for guitar insurance.





Thrav said:


> I live in San Antonio, TX. I’ve been checking non-stop but honestly, I fucked up because as I mentioned before I didn’t even take pics so I don’t even have the serial number. I was really busy with work and had to go to the hospital for an old Army injury that has been getting worse.



If you live in San Antonio and were in the military, I'd be surprised if you don't have an account with USAA. They insure my guitars.


----------



## Thrav

mechanyx said:


> If you live in San Antonio and were in the military, I'd be surprised if you don't have an account with USAA. They insure my guitars.


I have Navy Fed. I use progressives home/auto insurance bundle or whatever it’s called. 

But damn that’s good to know! I’ll have to go talk to them.


----------



## Thrav

Just have to say, Abasi reached out to me about the situation and tried to help out. I think that should be noted as this thread has been critical of them (rightfully so in some situations), but it shows they do care.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

@Thrav If you bought them through Abasi, then they should be able to help with the serial number

Hope your guitars turn up man.


----------



## odibrom

CanserDYI said:


> Is it just me or do Larada's look really odd in 6 string straight scale?



I feel that the design only works for 8 string multi scale guitars. 7 stringers are on the verge of being a tad ugly or visually unbalanced... 6 stringers are really odd looking. This may be due to the design have been presented primarily as an 8 stringer and it does work as such. For the other iterations, it just looks like a lazy design solution...


----------



## Hollowway

Are you sure they don’t cover musical instruments on you homeowners insurance? That should fall under “personal property” so I’m surprised it’s not covered.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thrav said:


> Just have to say, Abasi reached out to me about the situation and tried to help out. I think that should be noted as this thread has been critical of them (rightfully so in some situations), but it shows they do care.


That's great! They have great customer service, and this even goes beyond that. Hopefully that helps.

@Hollowway I've had the same experience. I reached out to my insurance company to get a guitar insurance and they told me I don`t need it since they fall under my "personal property".



CanserDYI said:


> Is it just me or do Larada's look really odd in 6 string straight scale?



They look really good to me. If it weren't for the neck-body joint slope (personal preference), I'd be playing one right now.


----------



## SpaceDock

Dude, homeowners or rental insurance should totally cover a break in and personal items unless you really cheaped out when signing up.


----------



## Thrav

Hollowway said:


> Are you sure they don’t cover musical instruments on you homeowners insurance? That should fall under “personal property” so I’m surprised it’s not covered.


So when I called them about it prior they said I would have had to properly documented the instrument with them since it’s a high priced item. I’m going to contact them again to see if there’s more to it, since it seems a lot of people here are saying there should be some recourse.

So I decided to put my Aristides up for a trade, either a Masters 8 or an H/08.

Again, Aristides is, well, Aristides, it’s the best crafted guitar I’ve ever owned. I just simply prefer the ergonomical design that comes with Abasi and headless. It’s tough for me to play long periods of time with strat type models with my back issues. Pretty much have to take a break every 20-25 mins. I literally leave out a yoga mat so I can do stretches lol.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thrav said:


> So when I called them about it prior they said I would have had to properly documented the instrument with them since it’s a high priced item. I’m going to contact them again to see if there’s more to it, since it seems a lot of people here are saying there should be some recourse.
> 
> So I decided to put my Aristides up for a trade, either a Masters 8 or an H/08.
> 
> Again, Aristides is, well, Aristides, it’s the best crafted guitar I’ve ever owned. I just simply prefer the ergonomical design that comes with Abasi and headless. It’s tough for me to play long periods of time with strat type models with my back issues. Pretty much have to take a break every 20-25 mins. I literally leave out a yoga mat so I can do stretches lol.



If you didn't know about it: the Abasi Concepts Buy-Sell-Trade Facebook group is apparently a good place for trades.


----------



## Thrav

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> If you didn't know about it: the Abasi Concepts Buy-Sell-Trade Facebook group is apparently a good place for trades.


First place I posted it on ! 

Actually, I’ve never done a trade online. What’s the safest route ?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Thrav said:


> First place I posted it on !
> 
> Actually, I’ve never done a trade online. What’s the safest route ?


Haha! No clue, only did one sale in that group.

Reverb may have a way to trade: https://reverb.com/page/how-do-i-trade-my-gear


----------



## Hollowway

Thrav said:


> So when I called them about it prior they said I would have had to properly documented the instrument with them since it’s a high priced item. I’m going to contact them again to see if there’s more to it, since it seems a lot of people here are saying there should be some recourse.
> 
> So I decided to put my Aristides up for a trade, either a Masters 8 or an H/08.
> 
> Again, Aristides is, well, Aristides, it’s the best crafted guitar I’ve ever owned. I just simply prefer the ergonomical design that comes with Abasi and headless. It’s tough for me to play long periods of time with strat type models with my back issues. Pretty much have to take a break every 20-25 mins. I literally leave out a yoga mat so I can do stretches lol.


Yeah, they’re talking about having it scheduled separately, or as a rider. But there should be a general personal property coverage. Maybe you have a policy that excludes them, though. Check your contract to see if it’s excluded.


----------



## trickae

Thrav said:


> I do love my Aristides. It’s by far the best quality guitar I’ve ever had. Although, going from Strandy 8 —> Abasi 8 —> Aristides 060s, it’s a big transition lol, I really disliked the 060S body as someone who plays in a traditional postion, should have went headless. It’s def revealed even more how much I like Abasi’s string tension and closer string spacing. The strings feel floppy af to me compared to my Abasi.
> 
> Oh well, time to save up and wait for a masters drop. Or even a J.


Can you share the fretboard width of the Abasi and aristrides with the narrower string spacing? 

I find the strandberg Boden 8 to be much wider than a kiesel Vader VM8, with a fretboard width of 56mm compared to 51mm respectively.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

@CW7 not liking your PVRP much?


----------



## FromTheMausoleum

looks like a very large Space T batch is in the works at Grover's shop. That seafoam looking one seems pretty neat.


----------



## CW7

TheHardwareChap said:


> @CW7 not liking your PVRP much?


Love it . Just found having two to be a tad redundant, and I’ve got my eye on something else and need to make some space. I have a few for sale so kinda in that “whatever sells first” mode and if it doesn’t go I won’t be mad . It plays as good as the Carbon , and that’s a VERY good thing.


----------



## snicklefritz

Anyone in this thread know if I can put a strandberg optimized set of strings on a Larada? I just got an 8 string Larada and have a pack of these strandberg strings so I'm wondering if the .84 can fit in the tuner and if the tapered end of the .84 will work with the Larada. I've only had the guitar for a day but I think I want a thicker 8th string, it seems like when I drop to E it has too much pitch shift for me with the .74 that came with it.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Here to revive the chat lmao, those 3 listed aren't selling like AT ALL, never seen them last this long lol


----------



## ian540s

I wonder if the returns being re-listed last time scared potential buyer off from this round of drops. 
Finding one to play in the wild is probably never gonna happen, but I still would love to have a go at a Larada 7 or Space T, although they're not my wallet's cup of tea.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Probably cause we are coming up on a recession and no one wants to waste money trying out a guitar they can't try other ways. Or no one wants them


----------



## CanserDYI

I'm just waiting for a headless larada. Does this exist yet?


----------



## Aaron Leeman

CanserDYI said:


> I'm just waiting for a headless larada. Does this exist yet?


Not yet, ngl I think it would be cool, but idk if it's like headstock branding, focusing on bringing out other specific ideas like the space-t, going to new ventures like baritone and 9 strings, plus the obv nylon, I feel like a headless would probably be decently down the line imo


----------



## StevenC

Aaron Leeman said:


> Here to revive the chat lmao, those 3 listed aren't selling like AT ALL, never seen them last this long lol


A 6 string Tosin Abasi guitar is the reason. There'll be a problem when the 8s are sitting.


----------



## Mathemagician

Are the kinks worked out yet? I haven’t checked this thread in who knows how long. Just curious what people are thinking of their various import models.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Mathemagician said:


> Are the kinks worked out yet? I haven’t checked this thread in who knows how long. Just curious what people are thinking of their various import models.


I think mine is good, I got a legion 8 and it plays really well, the frets are good and the string height was pretty good too. My only qualm is the split neck voice electronics cause a load of buzz, even without playing anything, but otherwise pretty awesome


----------



## Agalloch

Aaron Leeman said:


> I think mine is good, I got a legion 8 and it plays really well, the frets are good and the string height was pretty good too. My only qualm is the split neck voice electronics cause a load of buzz, even without playing anything, but otherwise pretty awesome



Are you telling me you don't appreciate that Fishman incorporated authentic split-coil hum into their active pickups? People on thegearpage would pay a lot of money for that kind of vintage-accurate feature.


----------



## Lordcephid

ian540s said:


> I wonder if the returns being re-listed last time scared potential buyer off from this round of drops.
> Finding one to play in the wild is probably never gonna happen, but I still would love to have a go at a Larada 7 or Space T, although they're not my wallet's cup of tea.


I found a shop in Bangkok called Yess guitars that have a couple of Larada's for sale, but their prices are marked up so high that it's pretty ridiculous to buy it from them.. They have a Master 6 in Mystic Dream that has a ding on the back. The price is reduced but it's still more expensive than buying from Abasi Concepts directly for a first hand. That said, thus far that's the only place that I've come across that has Larada's avail to try apart from Japan.


----------



## Flynn Edwards

I can see a few of you have owned Aristides here. How would you compare them to your Laradas? I'm looking for my first extended range guitar, and I'm in a tough position deciding between an Aristides and an Abasi


----------



## CW7

Flynn Edwards said:


> I can see a few of you have owned Aristides here. How would you compare them to your Laradas? I'm looking for my first extended range guitar, and I'm in a tough position deciding between an Aristides and an Abasi


This is a Larada thread, so I won’t get too carried away, but having owned numerous iterations of both brands (in 8 string), Aristides are another level entirely when it comes to fit, finish, and just overall execution/craftmanship. Abasis can be very hit or miss. Only 2 of all of the ones I’ve owned have been good to go out of the box. The rest needed attention to frets/neck before they could be setup with low action like I prefer. Aristides on the other hand ; I’ve NEVER had to have anything done . Ever. They’re bang on every single time. They’d also a joy to deal with, and make the order process as fun as it could be when you have to wait a few months for your dream instrument. I do have a keeper Abasi (it’s a 6 string USA). I have numerous Aristides, and more on the way. 

Now, to play the opposite side of my own argument … The Laradas DO bring something unique to the table as far as the shape/feel. So if that’s your thing, they’ve got their own vibe. Just be prepared going in to possibly not hAve a flawless instrument right off the bat. It may take some work . (Some may say I’m too picky. That may be the case. But at a 4k+ price point I’m of the opinion things need to be PRETTY damn close to dead on. This ain’t a 999.99 import. This is bordering on custom shop/boutique pricing.)

All that being said, see if you can try one of each. Price and flaws aside, they each have their own vibe, and you need to see what works for YOU. But that’s my .02 in the mix, for whatever that’s worth. Cheers.


----------



## Flynn Edwards

CW7 said:


> This is a Larada thread, so I won’t get too carried away, but having owned numerous iterations of both brands (in 8 string), Aristides are another level entirely when it comes to fit, finish, and just overall execution/craftmanship. Abasis can be very hit or miss. Only 2 of all of the ones I’ve owned have been good to go out of the box. The rest needed attention to frets/neck before they could be setup with low action like I prefer. Aristides on the other hand ; I’ve NEVER had to have anything done . Ever. They’re bang on every single time. They’d also a joy to deal with, and make the order process as fun as it could be when you have to wait a few months for your dream instrument. I do have a keeper Abasi (it’s a 6 string USA). I have numerous Aristides, and more on the way.
> 
> Now, to play the opposite side of my own argument … The Laradas DO bring something unique to the table as far as the shape/feel. So if that’s your thing, they’ve got their own vibe. Just be prepared going in to possibly not hAve a flawless instrument right off the bat. It may take some work . (Some may say I’m too picky. That may be the case. But at a 4k+ price point I’m of the opinion things need to be PRETTY damn close to dead on. This ain’t a 999.99 import. This is bordering on custom shop/boutique pricing.)
> 
> All that being said, see if you can try one of each. Price and flaws aside, they each have their own vibe, and you need to see what works for YOU. But that’s my .02 in the mix, for whatever that’s worth. Cheers.


Thanks man! That really helps me out!


----------



## Agalloch

Here is a likely very dumb question: is there any practical point to that massive upper bout on the Larada? Or is it just a style thing?

I wouldn't buy a Larada (at least not without trying one first) because I'm the type to play with my thumb wrapped around the neck much of the time, especially on the upper frets. I know this guitar is meant to be played in a more classical position, but you can play a guitar like that regardless of whether there's a massive chunk of wood blocking your thumb. But I've seen this sort of design on a few other hyper-modern guitars, so I'm wondering if it serves a more functional purpose that's lost on me.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Flynn Edwards said:


> I can see a few of you have owned Aristides here. How would you compare them to your Laradas? I'm looking for my first extended range guitar, and I'm in a tough position deciding between an Aristides and an Abasi



I am also going to add another point towards Aristides. They are more consistent with their quality. I've never kept alarada more than a few weeks. Never liked any of them whether it was master series, J, or even import. I love aristides.


----------



## jephjacques

Don't buy an Abasi, buy an Aristides, end of thread


----------



## TheHardwareChap

jephjacques said:


> Don't buy an Abasi, buy an Aristides, end of thread


But... Abasi just dropped more lol. Slightly lower prices this time too


----------



## jephjacques

i mean if you wanna spend money to be underwhelmed I ain't gonna stop you


----------



## Cockandballs

TheHardwareChap said:


> But... Abasi just dropped more lol. Slightly lower prices this time too


They were all the returns. Didn’t someone buy that champagne 8 string on the thread. Anyway the hype is dead on these. They’re just not great quality. Shape is cool. Aristides just blows these out of the water.


----------



## Flynn Edwards

Wow. I'm really surprised with this response, especially on the Larada thread. Thanks for the help everyone, I really appreciate it!


----------



## thomas.reuter

Doublecut :O


----------



## TheHardwareChap

thomas.reuter said:


> View attachment 108505
> 
> 
> 
> Doublecut :O


Can't decide how I feel about this.


----------



## cip 123

Wonder if VIK is in on this one too?


----------



## jdahlia

Cockandballs said:


> They were all the returns. Didn’t someone buy that champagne 8 string on the thread. Anyway the hype is dead on these. They’re just not great quality. Shape is cool. Aristides just blows these out of the water.


I got one of the master 6 build in the last batch, I definitely not agree with you, the one I have has a really good quality, feeling, and it was perfectly setupped.
I had 5 Aristides, more than 10 Mayones, those brand are the best quality you can find (person opinion), and the Abasi has a really great quality, maybe not the same, but what a feeling with it. I played many times my H/06 and the Abasi in the same jamming round, and seriously there is not that big difference you're talking about.
I love my Larada 6, so I ordered a new one (in shell pink) finish. For the price range (3699$), here in europe, you can't find something that has this quality, this feeling, and this ergonomics.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

3699 for a bstock. LMAO nah bro.


----------



## jdahlia

who talks about B stock? The one I ordered at 3699 is a new one, not a b stock (there was only a 8 string B stock)


----------



## jephjacques

The arc of the top looks really weird with the upper cutaway. But this will probably balance a lot better than the original design!


----------



## Xaeldaren

thomas.reuter said:


> View attachment 108505
> 
> 
> 
> Doublecut :O


By the pricking of my thumbs, something Falbo this way comes.


----------



## narad

Yea, he's gone full Falbo.


----------



## jdahlia

Falbo is the builder of Abasi.?


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

jdahlia said:


> Falbo is the builder of Abasi.?


Once upon a time yeah, not now though


----------



## Jonathan20022

Gross, I really don't like that.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Cockandballs said:


> They were all the returns. Didn’t someone buy that champagne 8 string on the thread. Anyway the hype is dead on these. They’re just not great quality. Shape is cool. Aristides just blows these out of the water.


The only return was the 8 string.The white one was a new color, the chalk was leftover from the last drop, and theyve never sold a pink 6 with a maple board.


----------



## bassisace

jdahlia said:


> I got one of the master 6 build in the last batch, I definitely not agree with you, the one I have has a really good quality, feeling, and it was perfectly setupped.
> I had 5 Aristides, more than 10 Mayones, those brand are the best quality you can find (person opinion), and the Abasi has a really great quality, maybe not the same, but what a feeling with it. I played many times my H/06 and the Abasi in the same jamming round, and seriously there is not that big difference you're talking about.
> I love my Larada 6, so I ordered a new one (in shell pink) finish. For the price range (3699$), here in europe, you can't find something that has this quality, this feeling, and this ergonomics.



There have been good builds, but also a lot of bad ones. Just scroll back in this thread and you'll see pics. It's a roll of the dice if you'll get a lemon or not. I think that's the common opinon. When their quality assurance improves I'm sure opinions will change. They do look cool, play and sound great.


----------



## StevenC

That's atrocious. Also looks like there's a white binding line like on the carbon topped guitars, which is extra gross.


----------



## CanserDYI

I actually like it :|


----------



## Masoo2

umm....



I mean I guess it's nicer than the orange "leak" from above

Didn't expect to see a multiscale trem model from EBMM though

EDIT: from the EBMM blog -







THE KAIZEN GUITAR​IN COLLABORATION WITH TOSIN ABASI


Built for the modern player and influenced by *Tosin Abasi*’s unique design aesthetic and playing style, the *Kaizen* is an all-new visionary collaboration between the award-winning Ernie Ball Music Man design team, and the virtuoso guitarist and manufacturer. The *Kaizen* will be offered with an alder body, roasted maple neck, and ebony fingerboard. Watch the official Kaizen guitar film featuring Tosin Abasi *here*.

*Multi-Scale* – 24.75” to 25.5” e to E multi-scale design provides affirmative string tension for thick and chunky rhythms on the bass strings, with a traditional feel on the treble strings for smooth bends and solos.

*Infinity Radius Neck* – Strategically positioned conical radius increases comfort while maintaining enhanced visibility of the fretboard and fret markers.

*Steinberger Gearless Locking Tuners* – Accurate, lightweight tuners that feature smooth rotation, and allow for a straight string pull.

*New Music Man Pickups* – A custom HT (Heat Treated) humbucker in the bridge position and a slanted mini-humbucker in the neck position have been specifically designed for the Kaizen.

*Multi-Scale Tremolo* – Super smooth modern Music Man tremolo with spring dampeners to alleviate unwanted overtones and ringing.

*“Decidedly Contoured”* – Ultra-lightweight design, deliberate body carves for extreme comfort, well-balanced with unrestricted fret access.


----------



## DiezelMonster

Masoo2 said:


> umm....
> 
> 
> 
> Much nicer than the orange "leak" from above imo
> 
> Didn't expect to see a multiscale trem model from EBMM though
> 
> EDIT: from the EBMM blog -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE KAIZEN GUITAR​IN COLLABORATION WITH TOSIN ABASI
> 
> 
> Built for the modern player and influenced by *Tosin Abasi*’s unique design aesthetic and playing style, the *Kaizen* is an all-new visionary collaboration between the award-winning Ernie Ball Music Man design team, and the virtuoso guitarist and manufacturer. The *Kaizen* will be offered with an alder body, roasted maple neck, and ebony fingerboard. Watch the official Kaizen guitar film featuring Tosin Abasi *here*.
> 
> *Multi-Scale* – 24.75” to 25.5” e to E multi-scale design provides affirmative string tension for thick and chunky rhythms on the bass strings, with a traditional feel on the treble strings for smooth bends and solos.
> 
> *Infinity Radius Neck* – Strategically positioned conical radius increases comfort while maintaining enhanced visibility of the fretboard and fret markers.
> 
> *Steinberger Gearless Locking Tuners* – Accurate, lightweight tuners that feature smooth rotation, and allow for a straight string pull.
> 
> *New Music Man Pickups* – A custom HT (Heat Treated) humbucker in the bridge position and a slanted mini-humbucker in the neck position have been specifically designed for the Kaizen.
> 
> *Multi-Scale Tremolo* – Super smooth modern Music Man tremolo with spring dampeners to alleviate unwanted overtones and ringing.
> 
> *“Decidedly Contoured”* – Ultra-lightweight design, deliberate body carves for extreme comfort, well-balanced with unrestricted fret access.



I wonder how he talked Sterling Ball into this? hahahaha 

My guess is street on these is going to be $6K In Canada here, LOL


----------



## Mathemagician

I came here to post that. I think it’s cool but I wouldn’t want a trem on it. At least you know the QC should be good. And I kind of dig the shape.


----------



## Cockandballs

Wonder why he did this? Are his own
Builds pretty shit? Does he need the $$$? It really made his guitar company look pretty lame. The Kaizen guitar looks way better than any Abasi, and Ernie Ball is a solid manufacturer. Dumb business move in his part. He should have licensed his design to music man.


----------



## Matt08642

Masoo2 said:


> umm....
> 
> 
> 
> I mean I guess it's nicer than the orange "leak" from above
> 
> Didn't expect to see a multiscale trem model from EBMM though
> 
> EDIT: from the EBMM blog -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> THE KAIZEN GUITAR​IN COLLABORATION WITH TOSIN ABASI
> 
> 
> Built for the modern player and influenced by *Tosin Abasi*’s unique design aesthetic and playing style, the *Kaizen* is an all-new visionary collaboration between the award-winning Ernie Ball Music Man design team, and the virtuoso guitarist and manufacturer. The *Kaizen* will be offered with an alder body, roasted maple neck, and ebony fingerboard. Watch the official Kaizen guitar film featuring Tosin Abasi *here*.
> 
> *Multi-Scale* – 24.75” to 25.5” e to E multi-scale design provides affirmative string tension for thick and chunky rhythms on the bass strings, with a traditional feel on the treble strings for smooth bends and solos.
> 
> *Infinity Radius Neck* – Strategically positioned conical radius increases comfort while maintaining enhanced visibility of the fretboard and fret markers.
> 
> *Steinberger Gearless Locking Tuners* – Accurate, lightweight tuners that feature smooth rotation, and allow for a straight string pull.
> 
> *New Music Man Pickups* – A custom HT (Heat Treated) humbucker in the bridge position and a slanted mini-humbucker in the neck position have been specifically designed for the Kaizen.
> 
> *Multi-Scale Tremolo* – Super smooth modern Music Man tremolo with spring dampeners to alleviate unwanted overtones and ringing.
> 
> *“Decidedly Contoured”* – Ultra-lightweight design, deliberate body carves for extreme comfort, well-balanced with unrestricted fret access.




Not digging how it looks, but I guess this is an advantage to owning your own guitar company - If someone approaches you for something like this there's no "issue" really.

That being said, that's a LOT of buzzwords


----------



## StevenC

DiezelMonster said:


> I wonder how he talked Sterling Ball into this? hahahaha
> 
> My guess is street on these is going to be $6K In Canada here, LOL


Tosin shows off his St Vincent and Mariposa on Instagram a lot. Probably not a lot of convincing, just baffling that there's no 8 string in sight, a player of such EBMM is lacking.


----------



## Jack McGoldrick

The guitar on tosins insta is a different design to the guitar on his story btw


----------



## jephjacques

Man, I love EBMM and I'm sure these will be really well built, but that shape...it kind of works in stealth black but WOOF


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Ugh I just hate the scale. If it was 25.5 to 26.5 or something like that, it would warrant a purchase.


----------



## Cockandballs

man that new double cut Abasi is ugly as fuck.


----------



## Paul McAleer

Matt08642 said:


> Not digging how it looks, but I guess this is an advantage to owning your own guitar company - If someone approaches you for something like this there's no "issue" really.
> 
> That being said, that's a LOT of buzzwords


This thing looks AWFUL 

It’s a mix of an Ibanez Axstar horns with a Gibson Thunderbird body/headstock


----------



## TheHardwareChap

The Abasi strat?


----------



## Cockandballs

TheHardwareChap said:


> The Abasi strat?
> View attachment 108662


Awful


----------



## Randy

Gonna sound like haterade but they're going mega-hard watering down the brand this year.


----------



## NCeuRign

I've still always got one on my lap but you guys have me really, really, really strongly considering an Aristides order.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Gonna sound like haterade but they're going mega-hard watering down the brand this year.



Did they ever really have a brand? 

It just seems they never knew what they wanted to be until they got something to stick.


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> Did they ever really have a brand?
> 
> It just seems they never knew what they wanted to be until they got something to stick.


I mean, the silhouette and the overall theme was "something".

Looked different enough, and it had the "Tosin Abasi is this insane musician and this is the only instrument he can play his music on because it's so technically demanding" thing, with the fanned fret 8, ergo, weird bevels and cutaways etc. There was some amount of the guy and what he's done that was baked into the brand.

Then they made 6-string space teles and shit, now this other stuff and instead of it being "this is the guitar Tosin Abasi designed for himself, be like Tosin Abasi" it's "this is Abasi's version of the same guitar you can buy from anyone but uglier" and it just doesn't work.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

This does not look good... At all


----------



## Randy

Fanned HSS looks pretty bomb


----------



## Kyle Jordan

TheHardwareChap said:


> This does not look good... At all


Looks like 8 string Fluence singles are just about confirmed. This makes me extremely happy. 

And the double cutaway Abasi looks better to me than the Larada ever has. Not a fan of the headstock.


----------



## Cockandballs

TheHardwareChap said:


> This does not look good... At all


It’s no longer elegant looking. It looks like a science fair project. Totally fine down hill.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Kyle Jordan said:


> Looks like 8 string Fluence singles are just about confirmed. This makes me extremely happy.
> 
> And the double cutaway Abasi looks better to me than the Larada ever has. Not a fan of the headstock.


Honestly if it's in the works, I'm almost tempted to get his old Ibanez sig and get some refinishing work to get it to match the look with these new singles, imagine that black and gold instead of the trans white with the fluences


----------



## Lordcephid

From a business perspective, maybe Tosin did something right by using Musicman as a way to test the market on whether a shitty guitar aesthetic works great instead of having to fork out the investment himself.


----------



## jdahlia

BTW I just find out whos building all Abasi, its Grover Jackson Engineering, a company founded by one of the original founder of Jackson, you can follow them on Facebook they often post some pictures where we can see some abasi getting build.


----------



## narad

TheHardwareChap said:


> This does not look good... At all



Looks like 80s guitar bullshit, which is A-OK by me.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jdahlia said:


> BTW I just find out whos building all Abasi, its Grover Jackson Engineering, a company founded by one of the original founder of Jackson, you can follow them on Facebook they often post some pictures where we can see some abasi getting build.



That's been known for awhile, Grover handling the current USA stuff, previously it was Frank Falbo, and the Japanese and South Korean models are made by Dyna Gakki and WMI respectively.


----------



## jdahlia

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's been known for awhile, Grover handling the current USA stuff, previously it was Frank Falbo, and the Japanese and South Korean models are made by Dyna Gakki and WMI respectively.


Thanks for precisions, I did not know it!


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Randy said:


> Gonna sound like haterade but they're going mega-hard watering down the brand this year.



The upper body cutaway is a good idea for upper neck access if you’re a « thumb above the neck player » (when you bend, or always).

They’re widening their market by addressing an issue some people had with their body shape, so it’s not a bad move IMO.

As for the aesthetics, different strokes for different folks…

That black HSS looks ok to me! A HSH or HH version without the white line might be more my thing.


----------



## Cockandballs

jdahlia said:


> BTW I just find out whos building all Abasi, its Grover Jackson Engineering, a company founded by one of the original founder of Jackson, you can follow them on Facebook they often post some pictures where we can see some abasi getting build.


Everyone knows this on the thread


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I just like the EMI because it doesn't look like it has a big tumor


----------



## avastcosmicarena

The 8 string HSS Emi looks cool to me. I've been wanting access to the single coil neck strat sound, but failing to find much of anything available for it on the market for 8 strings.


----------



## StevenC

avastcosmicarena said:


> The 8 string HSS Emi looks cool to me. I've been wanting access to the single coil neck strat sound, but failing to find much of anything available for it on the market for 8 strings.


There's always the new Javier Reyes LTD start that's coming out.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

StevenC said:


> There's always the new Javier Reyes LTD start that's coming out.



I don't even play 8s anymore but I want one


----------



## avastcosmicarena

StevenC said:


> There's always the new Javier Reyes LTD start that's coming out.


Is that also multiscale?


----------



## StevenC

avastcosmicarena said:


> Is that also multiscale?


No, but it does have a whammy bar and the correct number of frets


----------



## avastcosmicarena

StevenC said:


> No, but it does have a whammy bar and the correct number of frets


I'm personally not too interested in any 8 string that isn't multiscale at this point. 27"+ just makes the high strings too tight.

Also, I'm skeptical about the usability of a trem on an 8 string. I'd like to try out the Aristides one, but I'm inclined to believe the trem would be super stiff and not very easy to use.


----------



## Cockandballs

avastcosmicarena said:


> I'm personally not too interested in any 8 string that isn't multiscale at this point. 27"+ just makes the high strings too tight.
> 
> Also, I'm skeptical about the usability of a trem on an 8 string. I'd like to try out the Aristides one, but I'm inclined to believe the trem would be super stiff and not very easy to use.


Not true. I’ve sold all of my Abasi guitars and made the switch to Aristides headless guitars with trems. If you take the best of Abasi and Strandberg, and then have a real manufacturer manage the QC as opposed to these contract builders, you have Aristides + perfection. I have four of them. The trems are similar to Strandbergs and very fluid.


----------



## BigViolin

"best of" ?

Aristides doesn't deserve this.


----------



## CanserDYI

27 inches is fine for the high strings. Just don't put crackhead ass strings on them like when string manufacturers think we want 11's or 12's on the treble side because we beefed up the low end. No. No we don't want those.


----------



## Rob Joyner

Randy said:


> I mean, the silhouette and the overall theme was "something".
> 
> Looked different enough, and it had the "Tosin Abasi is this insane musician and this is the only instrument he can play his music on because it's so technically demanding" thing, with the fanned fret 8, ergo, weird bevels and cutaways etc. There was some amount of the guy and what he's done that was baked into the brand.
> 
> Then they made 6-string space teles and shit, now this other stuff and instead of it being "this is the guitar Tosin Abasi designed for himself, be like Tosin Abasi" it's "this is Abasi's version of the same guitar you can buy from anyone but uglier" and it just doesn't work.


Tosin does the "Influencer Branding" thing now. It's not a matter of what he's selling, but if it's HIM selling and putting his name on it. Just Like Rihanna's cosmetic line of products and the list is way too long to put in here.


----------



## StevenC

Breno Girafa said:


> Tosin does the "Influencer Branding" thing now. It's not a matter of what he's selling, but if it's HIM selling and putting his name on it. Just Like Rihanna's cosmetic line of products and the list is way too long to put in here.


Just like John Petrucci and his line of beard products and whiskey.


----------



## Rob Joyner

StevenC said:


> Just like John Petrucci and his line of beard products and whiskey.


he has a line of beard products?? like, real question


----------



## StevenC

Breno Girafa said:


> he has a line of beard products?? like, real question








John Petrucci 'Nebula' Signature Series


The Nebula Signature Series is a tribute to the mysterious harmony of the universe. John Petrucci’s composition with Captain Fawcett is quite simply out of this world.




www.captainfawcett.com


----------



## Rob Joyner

StevenC said:


> John Petrucci 'Nebula' Signature Series
> 
> 
> The Nebula Signature Series is a tribute to the mysterious harmony of the universe. John Petrucci’s composition with Captain Fawcett is quite simply out of this world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.captainfawcett.com


alright. too much internet for today.
Thank you for replying anyways.


----------



## bostjan

Breno Girafa said:


> he has a line of beard products?? like, real question








Nebula Beard Oil 50ml - Captain Fawcett Limited


I am absolutely delighted to announce the launch of the second Limited Edition ‘Nebula’ Guitar Flow® Pick #02. The picks...




www.captainfawcett.com





Also, for the record, the HSS Larada looks great, aesthetically, and 27" is not too long for a high E.

EDIT: Ninja'd by 3 minutes... I guess I took my time scrolling down.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

I'm just imaging JP's beard oil being a mix of fastfret and lemon oil so that i dispenses naturally over the fretboard as your playing and your beard is dripping. I'm not sorry for putting this image in your head.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

The Blue Ghost said:


> I'm just imaging JP's beard oil being a mix of fastfret and lemon oil so that i dispenses naturally over the fretboard as your playing and your beard is dripping. I'm not sorry for putting this image in your head.


well now i want it more lmao


----------



## Taikatatti

All 


The Blue Ghost said:


> I'm just imaging JP's beard oil being a mix of fastfret and lemon oil so that i dispenses naturally over the fretboard as your playing and your beard is dripping. I'm not sorry for putting this image in your head.


jokes aside it’s a good beard oil, smells like waffles.


----------



## jephjacques

if my beard smelled like waffles I'd just be hungry all day


----------



## CanserDYI

Y'all can smell your beards?


----------



## brector

CanserDYI said:


> Y'all can smell your beards?


If you can't chew on it or touch your nose with it, it's not really a beard


----------



## CanserDYI

brector said:


> If you can't chew on it or touch your nose with it, it's not really a beard


I suppose I didn't mean if you were ABLE to smell your beard, like I'd be ABLE to go smell a pile of shit but I'm not going to go do that lol


----------



## CW7

avastcosmicarena said:


> I'm personally not too interested in any 8 string that isn't multiscale at this point. 27"+ just makes the high strings too tight.
> 
> Also, I'm skeptical about the usability of a trem on an 8 string. I'd like to try out the Aristides one, but I'm inclined to believe the trem would be super stiff and not very easy to use.


I have no issues with the trem on my H/08. It's very useable and I really enjoy having the option of it there.


----------



## CW7

tofudoom said:


> Here is a likely very dumb question: is there any practical point to that massive upper bout on the Larada? Or is it just a style thing?
> 
> I wouldn't buy a Larada (at least not without trying one first) because I'm the type to play with my thumb wrapped around the neck much of the time, especially on the upper frets. I know this guitar is meant to be played in a more classical position, but you can play a guitar like that regardless of whether there's a massive chunk of wood blocking your thumb. But I've seen this sort of design on a few other hyper-modern guitars, so I'm wondering if it serves a more functional purpose that's lost on me.


Ther's definitely "something" to that. The first guitar I had with that design was an 8 string Teuffel Tesla. He told me it was designed that way because it increases low end response (more contact of the body/neck/etc). I can tell you that was one of the most resonant 8s I've owned. It was insane how much bass you could FEEL, even unpluged. Granted we haven't yet had a way to compare apples to apples , i.e. an Abasi with the upper bout vs without. But that is the structural reason I have understood in the past, and on the Teuffel it was something that made a difference in my eyes (and ears). That's not a super fair comarison though, as that Teuffel was made by Ulrich, and was like 9k new.


----------



## Cockandballs

Surprised it’s on the site


----------



## NoodleFace

I'm always amazed by idiots. 

If I spent 3 grand on a guitar and got such poor treatment I certainly wouldn't spend another 3k with the company.


----------



## MrWulf

Nice, but not worth the cost.

I'm still trying to parse whats part is nice in his scathing review


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I just think it's funny they still gave them two stars.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

Cockandballs said:


> Surprised it’s on the site


Maybe it's to showcase some of their guitars are actually bought by humans and not just bots?


----------



## JuhaMM

According to the FAQ on the Abasi Concepts website there is going to be a Master 8 drop this month (or am I late for that?). Really keen on the shape and idea of these but very torn after reading some history here. Anyone else eyeing this drop, didn't already happen did it?


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Looks like a new batch of legion 6s are dropping tomorrow


----------



## jephjacques

JuhaMM said:


> According to the FAQ on the Abasi Concepts website there is going to be a Master 8 drop this month (or am I late for that?). Really keen on the shape and idea of these but very torn after reading some history here. Anyone else eyeing this drop, didn't already happen did it?


do not buy an abasi


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> do not buy an abasi




I have never trusted anyon's opinion more when it comes to these. I have had 2 and instantly sold both out of issues with quality.


----------



## Cockandballs

Cockandballs said:


> Surprised it’s on the site


Well it mysteriously disappeared from
The site


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

Cockandballs said:


> Well it mysteriously disappeared from
> The site


nah, its still there. just not on the home page anymore.


----------



## bassisace

Legion sixes not selling as fast as other drops.


----------



## SCJR

I wonder how much of the shift of these being bought up the second they dropped to sitting for a while has to do with an overall dissatisfaction with the product across the entire customer base - or is it evidence that a large percentage of the market for these are guitar nerds who are either active in a place like this or have come across the conversations had on here and other places while doing their research. 

As in most things in life, it's probably and rather than or.


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Maybe it’s the pandemic having financial repercussions on people’s wallets, i.e. maybe guitar sales have gone down throughout the industry as a whole due to inflation/loss of jobs. #speculating


----------



## Alberto7

Sounds like the 3 guys buying these don't want any more of them 
Or maybe they just made more units this time.
Or maybe people are wary of them now.
Or the incoming recession+covid debt.
Or...

Not appealing to me though. I'm pretty disenamoured with these guitars. That and the only way I would ever begin to consider one of these is as an 8 string anyways. I'd MUCH rather get another 6 string, or 7 string for that matter.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

I still feel their initial custom shop would've been so cool had it delivered what it sold. Being able to spec out radius and specific neck profile (I think they had that option aswell) is not something common to most custom shops who don't really go beyond the green or purple nebula-maple-barf-finish option on their builds if you're not paying 6k plus and might risk the entire operation going Bernie Rico Jr on you.


----------



## mastapimp

The Blue Ghost said:


> I still feel their initial custom shop would've been so cool had it delivered what it sold. Being able to spec out radius and specific neck profile (I think they had that option aswell) is not something common to most custom shops who don't really go beyond the green or purple nebula-maple-barf-finish option on their builds if you're not paying 6k plus and might risk the entire operation going Bernie Rico Jr on you.


There was no spec'ing of profile or radiuses as far as I can recall. The options were fretboard, tops, # of strings, and fan/straight...I was pretty close to placing an order back when they first got started and remember it being very limited in what you could pick and choose.


----------



## Cockandballs

I think the reality is that the Tosin market is very, very niche and I think it’s past it’s peak. Take a niche style of music, with a very niche shape and a gamble on quality - you’re gonna get burned Plus with everything opening up people are spending money on other things $2K for an import guitar is insane. And the QC is just bad. I think if the QC issue keep happening he’s gonna be stuck and might even miss his Ferrari payments  They still have all the Space Ts sitting around


----------



## StevenC

The 8 strings have never sat. 

I'm as big a Tosin fan as you'll find and I wouldn't buy a 6 string Abasi if they were Ken Lawrence quality.


----------



## Rob Joyner

Alberto7 said:


> Sounds like the 3 guys buying these don't want any more of them
> Or maybe they just made more units this time.
> Or maybe people are wary of them now.
> Or the incoming recession+covid debt.
> Or...
> 
> Not appealing to me though. I'm pretty disenamoured with these guitars. That and the only way I would ever begin to consider one of these is as an 8 string anyways. I'd MUCH rather get another 6 string, or 7 string for that matter.


agreed. Buying an Abasi 6 string telecaster knockoff makes absolutely no sense. He should have stuck with whatever was the initial vision for the brand.


----------



## Hollowway

Rob Joyner said:


> agreed. Buying an Abasi 6 string telecaster knockoff makes absolutely no sense. He should have stuck with whatever was the initial vision for the brand.


Plus, there is a LOT more competition for guitars with 6 strings than 8. And I’d honestly have thought he’d do a bass or 9 string before he did a 6, given the type of music he plays.


----------



## CW7

mastapimp said:


> There was no spec'ing of profile or radiuses as far as I can recall. The options were fretboard, tops, # of strings, and fan/straight...I was pretty close to placing an order back when they first got started and remember it being very limited in what you could pick and choose.


I had one of the customs for a bit. It was just “ok”- not marginally worse (or better) than the host of other Master 8s I’ve had. It was rough around the edges, and needed some work to actually be playable at a low action.


----------



## SCJR

Rob Joyner said:


> agreed. Buying an Abasi 6 string telecaster knockoff makes absolutely no sense. He should have stuck with whatever was the initial vision for the brand.



Maybe at a more accessible price point and production scale something like the Space T could've been viable as a tele alternative both in and outside of his core fanbase. Like an $800-1200 version sitting on a wall to compete directly with other manufacturers' offerings.

But at the price and scarcity it presents your other options are nearly endless and it really doesn't seem to appeal much unless you just have to have an Abasi.

Edit: Did they ever make these in 7 or 8's?


----------



## CanserDYI

Shit now that I think about it, I want to see a Larada Bass. Shit.


----------



## StevenC

CanserDYI said:


> Shit now that I think about it, I want to see a Larada Bass. Shit.


----------



## CanserDYI

StevenC said:


>


Works GREAT as a bass shape, that's awesome.


----------



## SCJR

CanserDYI said:


> Works GREAT as a bass shape, that's awesome.



Yeah that is actually a lot better


----------



## jephjacques

it looks so fucking dumb with the oversized body lmao


----------



## MFB

jephjacques said:


> it looks so fucking dumb with the oversized body lmao



The bass version looks like a ukulele with the limited frets/scale combination


----------



## JuhaMM

Looking at the FAQ, 8 string masters have been delayed to august. I know these things have gotten a lot of flak for QC. Alas, they still have a ton of appeal for me personally in terms of the aesthetic and playability. Glad I have a little more time now to a) get myself talked out of this b) make sure im ready for QC issues if I decide its worth a buy.


----------



## jephjacques

JuhaMM said:


> Looking at the FAQ, 8 string masters have been delayed to august. I know these things have gotten a lot of flak for QC. Alas, they still have a ton of appeal for me personally in terms of the aesthetic and playability. Glad I have a little more time now to a) get myself talked out of this b) make sure im ready for QC issues if I decide its worth a buy.


allow me to further talk you out of it: do not buy an abasi. buy an aristides if you want a fancy 8 string.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

MFB said:


> The bass version looks like a ukulele with the limited frets/scale combination



It seems to be a fretted/fretless hybrid of sorts.


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> allow me to further talk you out of it: do not buy an abasi. buy an aristides if you want a fancy 8 string.


Aristideses have major problems too. Namely that they look like that.


----------



## JuhaMM

Yeah so I can't stand how aristides guitars look, they've just never grown on me like the larada shape. Im sure they are great though.


----------



## Alberto7

StevenC said:


> Aristideses have major problems too. Namely that they look like that.


The regular body shape yeah. I've gotten over the weird aesthetic over the years to the point that I kinda want one, but I remember the first time I saw their initial 010 model back in like 2009 or 2010, I was really weirded out.

I genuinely think the H series is really cool though.


----------



## StevenC

Alberto7 said:


> The regular body shape yeah. I've gotten over the weird aesthetic over the years to the point that I kinda want one, but I remember the first time I saw their initial 010 model back in like 2009 or 2010, I was really weirded out.
> 
> I genuinely think the H series is really cool though.


A H/08R with a trem is everything I want in a guitar, except something I want to play.


----------



## Alberto7

So close, yet so far


----------



## The Blue Ghost

It's not going to happen but if Abasi would resurrect the TAM100 I would be so happy. Such a classy looking guitar I've always wanted to have


----------



## The Blue Ghost

And preferably without severe QC issues but I know that's asking for alot at this point


----------



## Cockandballs

jephjacques said:


> allow me to further talk you out of it: do not buy an abasi. buy an aristides if you want a fancy 8 string.


Sold all my Abasi’s for Aristides Phenomenal with all the options I want I think the Abasi train is dead Got too greedy on the price


----------



## The Blue Ghost

I know they have a shaky customer service history but I recently got a multi scale Vader used cheaper than almost any Strandberg and it's a really solid well built instrument with relatively fancy specs. This isn't just a jab a Abasi but man do I think it's worth it to look out for used deals before you go for new stuff


----------



## CanserDYI

The Blue Ghost said:


> I know they have a shaky customer service history but I recently got a multi scale Vader used cheaper than almost any Strandberg and it's a really solid well built instrument with relatively fancy specs. This isn't just a jab a Abasi but man do I think it's worth it to look out for used deals before you go for new stuff


Name a company BESIDES Aristides that doesnt have questionable customer service from some angle?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

CanserDYI said:


> Name a company BESIDES Aristides that doesnt have questionable customer service from some angle?


Balaguer


----------



## CanserDYI

KnightBrolaire said:


> Balaguer


Sure ill give that one, havent heard any horror stories yet.


----------



## Cockandballs

CanserDYI said:


> Sure ill give that one, havent heard any horror stories yet.


I tried ordering from them. Got a Woodman to try the Evertybe bridge. Same garbage aa everything else made overseas Their USA made stuff is not bad but not great - not for the price anyway. With the exception of Aristides, all of the custom shops tend to be garbage - Kiesel is rubbish and the owner is just cringeworthy. Only good experience I’ve ever had was with Aristides from my experience and I’ve tried a lot


----------



## StevenC

CanserDYI said:


> Name a company BESIDES Aristides that doesnt have questionable customer service from some angle?


Schecter


----------



## Cockandballs

Music Man 


StevenC said:


> Schecter


----------



## StevenC

Cockandballs said:


> Music Man


Nah, I have a hard time buying a Music Man after the piezo fell out of my JPX saddle and they wouldn't sell me a single saddle to replace it.


----------



## avastcosmicarena

Cockandballs said:


> Not true. I’ve sold all of my Abasi guitars and made the switch to Aristides headless guitars with trems. If you take the best of Abasi and Strandberg, and then have a real manufacturer manage the QC as opposed to these contract builders, you have Aristides + perfection. I have four of them. The trems are similar to Strandbergs and very fluid.



I mean... your experience with Abasi and Strandberg has little to do with my comment. For the record, I've played an Aristides guitar before (a friend had one), and I liked it. I am actually pretty interested in the H/07 (with trem) and H/08 (with fixed bridge), but I find them to be very, very expensive, which is why I don't have one yet.

Anyway, I own 2 Abasi Larada Legions, a bunch of Kiesels, a nylon classical 8 string guitar, a bunch of basses (Spector, Ibanez, Dingwall), etc.... There is nothing wrong with the 2 Legions I have. In fact, they are pretty nice and play well. However, I think the Kiesel Zeus and Osiris guitars I have are a better value and play just as well (slightly better, IMO). I also find the 26" to 27.5" fan to be slightly more comfortable than the 25.5" to 27.5" on the Abasis.

As for the 8 string with trem, it may still be usable, but it's going to be significantly more stiff than the 6 or 7 string version with trem. It's simple physics. There is much more tension to deal with. At the end of the day, it will come down to personal opinion though. Some people won't like it, and some won't mind it.

It's the same with multiscale vs not. You have several people here telling you 27" is fine for the high strings, but that comes with no context whatsoever. For all we know, these are people who just 0-0-0 on the low F#/E 8th string and never play anything on the high strings or never play leads or use bending or who simply don't care about having balanced tension across strings. You have to take opinions with a grain of salt.


----------



## avastcosmicarena

CanserDYI said:


> 27 inches is fine for the high strings. Just don't put crackhead ass strings on them like when string manufacturers think we want 11's or 12's on the treble side because we beefed up the low end. No. No we don't want those.


"Fine" is relative and subjective. I owned an RG2228 for many, many years, and I made it work, but for me to like it, I had to use very custom string gauges per string to get the tension even across the strings and keep the tension light enough on the upper strings to still bend & play easily. Is it usable? Sure. Is it ideal? No, not even close.

For me, anywhere in the 25" to 26.5" is just better on the high E side. Allows using more normal gauges while still being able to bend and play with a light touch. Again, though, it comes down to technique and personal preference.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

avastcosmicarena said:


> For all we know, these are people who just 0-0-0 on the low F#/E 8th string and never play anything on the high strings or never play leads or use bending or who simply don't care about having balanced tension across strings. You have to take opinions with a grain of salt.




Shouldn't make a difference if they do. Stop being a gatekeeping garbage pale kid. People can do what they want and if they have the money to buy something for that purpose, good on them. 

I thought your kind died off in the 2010s


----------



## jephjacques

takes stones to complain about people only playing the bass string and also admit you're a precious baby whom needs special string gauges to bend on a 27" scale


----------



## BradleyAllan

*mod edit: if you want to buy / sell something use the classifieds*


----------



## Cockandballs

Anyone care about the drop?


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Cockandballs said:


> Anyone care about the drop?


I’m interested, I get the feeling it’s gonna be “here’s another mystic dream and chartreuse again” but the champagne supernova and relic has me slightly hopeful tbh


----------



## Inanimate100

Anyone here feel a Larada (or any other 8 string for that matter) would be a good guitar to play jazz ??


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Inanimate100 said:


> Anyone here feel a Larada (or any other 8 string for that matter) would be a good guitar to play jazz ??


From what I understand, 8 strings are great for jazz! You can check what I say against what Tosin says in clinics and interviews, but 8 strings are great for jazz chords with different inversions and extended range basically lets you have more melodic options too, so big yes.


----------



## CanserDYI

Inanimate100 said:


> Anyone here feel a Larada (or any other 8 string for that matter) would be a good guitar to play jazz ??


Nah you pick it up and if you try to play a jazz chord it bricks up and most of the strings break, I've even seen jazz break the neck of an 8 string guitar. 


If you haven't told by now that I'm joking and that you can play anything on any guitar, well, Im joking and you can play anything on any guitar.


----------



## Cockandballs

You know they don’t care about quality when they get Legion mixed up with Master Series in the newsletter release. Finishes look - eh.


----------



## nathanmachine

Cockandballs said:


> You know they don’t care about quality when they get Legion mixed up with Master Series in the newsletter release. Finishes look - eh.


how did they do that? 

looks like legions are only 4-5 basic colors and the newsletter mentioned colors that aren't typically available in legion. speaking as someone who has a legion 8 atm


----------



## Cockandballs

nathanmachine said:


> how did they do that?
> 
> looks like legions are only 4-5 basic colors and the newsletter mentioned colors that aren't typically available in legion. speaking as someone who has a legion 8 atm


Look at the subject line in your email inbox for the newsletter.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

nathanmachine said:


> how did they do that?
> 
> looks like legions are only 4-5 basic colors and the newsletter mentioned colors that aren't typically available in legion. speaking as someone who has a legion 8


Yea it’s not a legion drop, only master series. Honestly kind of a negligible mistake, easy to have avoided and the colours therefore are only in master series (as cool as it would be to have legions with master series finishes and stuff)


----------



## Cockandballs

Aaron Leeman said:


> Yea it’s not a legion drop, only master series. Honestly kind of a negligible mistake, easy to have avoided and the colours therefore are only in master series (as cool as it would be to have legions with master series finishes and stuff)


I’m just saying between that and all of the QA issues you can see on the thread. Just a bit lazy. I think on this thread someone returned the champagne one on the last batch.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

I’m just saying between that and all of the QA issues you can see on the thread. Just a bit lazy. I think on this thread someone returned the champagne one on the last batch.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Sorry my bad lmaooo, was gonna say I def agree, it really isn’t up to scratch at Abasi HQ and while I myself am happy with a legion, it’s beyond messed up that people are paying double for arguably lower quality and borderline neglectful guitar QC


----------



## 8195229

Cockandballs said:


> You know they don’t care about quality when they get Legion mixed up with Master Series in the newsletter release. Finishes look - eh.


The subject says legion most likely because when you design email newsletters you can either create a new email from scratch, use a template, or clone a previous email. I feel they cloned a previous legion release email and forgot to change the subject. 

I've done this before, it's pretty easy to look over.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

8195229 said:


> The subject says legion most likely because when you design email newsletters you can either create a new email from scratch, use a template, or clone a previous email. I feel they cloned a previous legion release email and forgot to change the subject.
> 
> I've done this before, it's pretty easy to look over.



Much lazy. Much concern about guitar quality


----------



## nathanmachine

Cockandballs said:


> Look at the subject line in your email inbox for the newsletter.


ah got it


----------



## 8195229

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Much lazy. Much concern about guitar quality


Absolutely. Never buy or trust anyone who makes copy errors, ever. It's a real probblem. 

Hopefully, you won't fall victim to these errors.


----------



## Cockandballs

weird, all things considered they were cheaper than normal $3,699, but all a bit average compared to other drops.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Cockandballs said:


> weird, all things considered they were cheaper than normal $3,699, but all a bit average compared to other drops.


Yeah Ngl I like the ultramarine but the rest was kind of average, agreed there


----------



## Cockandballs

Aaron Leeman said:


> Yeah Ngl I like the ultramarine but the rest was kind of average, agreed there


looks like they stopped doing that bullshit 2 sheen finish because it gets scratched pretty quickly. anyway, I've heard this US drop and the Space T that is coming up will be the last of the US drops for a while, need to find a different builder. not sure if that's true but heard rumblings about Grover Jackson. Would make sense given the last small drop and not that many drops happening this year.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

looks like they stopped doing that bullshit 2 sheen finish because it gets scratched pretty quickly. anyway, I've heard this US drop and the Space T that is coming up will be the last of the US drops for a while, need to find a different builder. not sure if that's true but heard rumblings about Grover Jackson. Would make sense given the last small drop and not that many drops happening this year.
Yeah, I’ve noticed that lack of output lately, was wondering since there’s so much prototype development but little to no releases, between the nylon larada, the Emi series, really calling into question how things are functioning behind the scenes (unless it’s just a hard RnD phase rn before huge output) but even between that one chartreuse space-T model still in stock, I’m really wondering what’s going on lol

I’ve also not heard anything about Grover Jackson, mostly since I’m not particularly in the loop, what’s been happening?


----------



## Cockandballs

Just heard people quit at Jackson for other jobs which would backlog new production.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Yea I guess that may explain why the builds in the US have almost been practically halted, tho it’s def not looking like it’s set up to do too well with even more builds in the works like the nylons and the Emis, so I’m curious if things will go to a new luthier or however things go. Luckily the WM factory and Dyna Gakki is keeping the builds alive at all atm, but I’m very curious how things will function onwards (hypothetically, I know I’m jumping a bit far ahead)


----------



## Cockandballs

Aaron Leeman said:


> Yeah Ngl I like the ultramarine but the rest was kind of average, agreed there


that was probably the worst one to buy because it's made out of shitty obeche wood - seriously what builder uses that wood? It's super shitty.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Cockandballs said:


> that was probably the worst one to buy because it's made out of shitty obeche wood - seriously what builder uses that wood? It's super shitty.


I can’t say I’ve heard much of Obeche, maybe that speaks volumes in itself, but how is it so bad to warrant that kind of reaction?


----------



## CanserDYI

Aaron Leeman said:


> I can’t say I’ve heard much of Obeche, maybe that speaks volumes in itself, but how is it so bad to warrant that kind of reaction?


I swear to God if it has anything to do with tone I'm going to quit this site I swear. 



(God knows I'm joking but ill threaten it!!)


----------



## Cockandballs

Its garbage African plywood used in cheap factories as a rosewood substitute. Very inconsistent wood like most Chinese builds. Just surprised they’d use it. The wood name sounds cooler than it is. Basically sounds like Corinthian leather of wood. 


CanserDYI said:


> I swear to God if it has anything to do with tone I'm going to quit this site I swear.
> 
> 
> 
> (God knows I'm joking but ill threaten it!!)


----------



## StevenC

Cockandballs said:


> Its garbage African plywood used in cheap factories as a rosewood substitute. Very inconsistent wood like most Chinese builds. Just surprised they’d use it. The wood name sounds cooler than it is. Basically sounds like Corinthian leather of wood.


PRS uses obeche for bodies on Wood Library some times.


----------



## jephjacques

wait till this guy finds out about basswood


----------



## StevenC

jephjacques said:


> wait till this guy finds out about basswood


Dude said the hype was over because Space Ts were sitting, so I missed out on these 8s. Obviously can't be relied upon.


----------



## baptizedinblood

Grabbed the Chalk J7 and a Master 6 Mystic Dream late last year, been playing them nonstop ever since. Fantastic guitars. Not sure where all the hate in this thread is coming from. Did I just get lucky or something?


----------



## jephjacques

yes


----------



## Aaron Leeman

baptizedinblood said:


> Grabbed the Chalk J7 and a Master 6 Mystic Dream late last year, been playing them nonstop ever since. Fantastic guitars. Not sure where all the hate in this thread is coming from. Did I just get lucky or something?


Yea I mean it’s very hit or miss, especially with the USA models it seems, sometimes they’ll be the best guitars someone’s ever picked up and it’s absolutely perfect, sometimes it’s just trash, painted bad, pick-up wiring leaves some unwanted noise (personal experience with my legion 8), action is bad, but I think the hate is low-key reasonable when you’re dropping a few $k on a model, you’d expect it to be high quality and again, sometimes it is and sometimes it isn’t, so it’s especially frustrating if you’re seeing the IG posting constant positive reviews, but idk, that’s just my 2 cents


----------



## baptizedinblood

Interesting. Was hoping for a PVRP Master 8 but now the thread has me a bit concerned about buying more. Maybe it's time I grab a Suhr or Mayones.


----------



## BradleyAllan

I’ve currently have 3 Abasi Master Series (two 8’s and one 6) and have never had any issues quality wise. Not saying that there aren’t any QC issues but in my personal experience I haven’t had any. I do think there has been a slow down with the Master Series 6’s / Space T’s but it usually seems like it’s the less desirable colors that seem to sit a bit longer because they all usually sell out with an exception of one or two. I also think they keep doing the same color combos over and over when people are asking them for a variety. I personally would love to see some more natural options like that Zebrawood one they advertised awhile back then didn’t sell.


----------



## jephjacques

baptizedinblood said:


> Interesting. Was hoping for a PVRP Master 8 but now the thread has me a bit concerned about buying more. Maybe it's time I grab a Suhr or Mayones.


You really can't go wrong with a Suhr. Mayos are also generally fantastic, I own several, but I've seen a few Duvells with build issues and some people really hate the ergonomics on the Regius.


----------



## Aaron Leeman

Yeah I’ve heard high praises of Suhr, Mayones and Aristides all throughout here, if anyone has had a bad experience at all, what usually tends to be the issues with those ones, especially comparatively to the Abasi QC issues? (given I don’t have a lot of guitar experience with owning, I’ve got 2 and haven’t played a lot else lol)


----------



## narad

jephjacques said:


> You really can't go wrong with a Suhr. Mayos are also generally fantastic, I own several, but I've seen a few Duvells with build issues and some people really hate the ergonomics on the Regius.



Can't go wrong? If you're used to playing junk, Suhr might seem good. For more on this and other hot takes, see:






High-End Advice


Anyone else annoyed by the fact that in FR guitars, the locking nut rests partly on air with Suhrs and Andersons? It looks sloppy tbh. I'm also in a similar situation, but can't stomach dropping 5k on a guitar with such a clumsy design. Check post #11 to see what I'm talking about...




www.sevenstring.org


----------



## TheHardwareChap

baptizedinblood said:


> Grabbed the Chalk J7 and a Master 6 Mystic Dream late last year, been playing them nonstop ever since. Fantastic guitars. Not sure where all the hate in this thread is coming from. Did I just get lucky or something?


I have the other mystic dream 6. Honestly, it's glorious


----------



## jephjacques

narad said:


> Can't go wrong? If you're used to playing junk, Suhr might seem good. For more on this and other hot takes, see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High-End Advice
> 
> 
> Anyone else annoyed by the fact that in FR guitars, the locking nut rests partly on air with Suhrs and Andersons? It looks sloppy tbh. I'm also in a similar situation, but can't stomach dropping 5k on a guitar with such a clumsy design. Check post #11 to see what I'm talking about...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sevenstring.org


rig talk lmao


----------



## BigKat462

I'll throw my experience with these guitars, in the mix. 
I had an 8 string Larada masters, as well as a "B-stock" legon 8 string. 

The two played completely different and felt different, but which one do you think played better?
...the legion. 
I owned the Master first. I really did enjoy it the first couple of months. But , one day I come in my office and the neck had shifted so much, that it played like a 1950s Kay that's been left out in the rain. There was So much neck relief in it that I had to throw the guitar in a case with a damp sponge for a couple of days, for the neck to go back to straight. Mind you, the truss rod was maxed out and still wouldn't be perfectly straight. 
Just like all the other reviews, if you look down the neck from top, there's a dip, then gets level around the neck joint. 
Sure, climate and season changes affect this stuff, but all my other guitars were and are not this sensitive, by a long shot. 
So while that thing was rehydrating in a case, I started playing the legion more. After a week of only playing that one, I realized it plays incredibly better and it never changed behavior with the season change. 
all of this put a bad taste in my mouth and I decided this is F'd. I hucked them both. The masters, for an insane profit to a hype boy and even a couple hundred profit on the legion. I picked up Javier's LTD and it smokes those abasis out of the water. (although, it's heavy as shit)
I will say , abasi has the design down. It's definitely the most comfortable 8 string you can get IMO. But yeah, ...if I were to get one again for some odd reason. I'd get a legion used, and if it's 1200 bucks. Legions should be 1600 new and Masters should be 2499 (depending on finish) IMO. Stay away.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Well....I have obtained the Champagne Supernova Relic. Lets see how Master quality is.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Well....I have obtained the Champagne Supernova



Why? Why? Why? Why?


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

MaxOfMetal said:


> Why? Why? Why? Why?


No clue. Just wanted to try it. I have tried J and Legion. Never tried a master series


----------



## MaxOfMetal

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> No clue. Just wanted to try it. I have tried J and Legion. Never tried a master series



Just had to wake up the dawn and ask why.


----------



## Cockandballs

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just had to wake up the dawn and ask why.





MaxOfMetal said:


> Why? Why? Why? Why?


Was it worth it?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Cockandballs said:


> Was it worth it?



There are many things that I would like to say to you, but I don't know how.


----------



## SpaceDock

Cuz maybe, Gonna be the one dat saves me


----------



## Alberto7

SpaceDock said:


> Cuz maybe, Gonna be the one dat saves me


Now I know that you were also getting high


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Don't look back in anger, Steven.


----------



## jephjacques

by now
you should've somehow
realized that abasi has major QC issues


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

jephjacques said:


> by now
> you should've somehow
> realized that abasi has major QC issues


oh true. Guess we shall see if it is decent or not ha


----------



## jephjacques

I sincerely hope you get a good one and love it!


----------



## Alberto7

Or get a good one, hate it, and sell it to a hype boi for a 100% profit


----------



## Mathemagician

Damn I just popped in to see if these were 1) Good/stable yet and 2) easily available somewhere. 

Guess I keep waiting then. They do look cool.


----------



## Cockandballs

Anybody jumping in this drop?


----------



## NCeuRign

Prices are crazy.

Oh hang on, I just checked again. It must have done a weird local currency conversion. First time I looked they were $5334, which seemed like an odd number. Back to $3599 now.


----------



## Cockandballs

That’s chunky. Nobody likes the chartreuse color. Space T is still there in that color


----------



## NCeuRign

To show I wasn't lying, it's obviously doing a conversion sometimes when I look:



https://i.postimg.cc/pLcZs2Fv/Screenshot-20220912-082620.png


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Update. The Champagne Supernova Relic is very nice. Went over everything. No QC issues. Plays really well.


----------



## CanserDYI

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Update. The Champagne Supernova Relic is very nice. Went over everything. No QC issues. Plays really well.


Pics or it didn't happen


----------



## RobDobble6S7

CanserDYI said:


> Pics or it didn't happen


Give us little yellow circles too of minute details.


----------



## oremus91

narad said:


> Can't go wrong? If you're used to playing junk, Suhr might seem good. For more on this and other hot takes, see:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High-End Advice
> 
> 
> Anyone else annoyed by the fact that in FR guitars, the locking nut rests partly on air with Suhrs and Andersons? It looks sloppy tbh. I'm also in a similar situation, but can't stomach dropping 5k on a guitar with such a clumsy design. Check post #11 to see what I'm talking about...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.sevenstring.org


Don't summon him


----------



## AkiraSpectrum

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> Update. The Champagne Supernova Relic is very nice. Went over everything. No QC issues. Plays really well.


Awesome! 
Post some pics!


----------



## sezna

Unfortunately I've a negative experience to report.

I've GAS'd for an Abasi ever since the first Ibanez concepts were out. Back then I'd email Ibanez every month asking when the sig was dropping. I finally managed to snag one on Reverb from Japan, signed by Abasi himself and with specs that I generally like.



It was advertised as a new USA model, and there are photos of Tosin holding it. And he signed it.




Surely this is a good one, because the man himself played it and signed it! Surely this guitar is safe from the QC woes!!!

So I got the guitar, and....
*


*

wtf?? Glue seeping out of the joint, the bridge feels terrible (it is a tremolo but doesn't stay in tune and has maybe a quarter tone's worth of backwards travel), and in general the details are just not there at all. I mean look at those fret slots. What?


So I messaged Abasi Concepts and they told me it is a Falbo model and they're therefore not really responsible for it. From my perspective, Abasi's authorized dealer advertised this as a new guitar with no issues, and Tosin himself endorsed it with his signature. It should not be on the customer to research serial numbers and do whatever sleuthing is necessary to ensure they don't get a Falbo guitar.

I offered to send it back to them, or maybe exchange it for another guitar, or whatever -- they only offered me a reserved slot in a new run of laradas. Ah yes, permission to buy another guitar, great. 

I ended up getting a partial refund from the Japanese music store and am still sitting on this guitar. The worst part is, after Abasi offered to reserve me a new USA or J series Larada, _they went back on that promise and started ignoring me_. Run after run came out, and they just refused to give me a spot.

So here I am, writing this review, which Abasi could have avoided had they given me an ounce of respect. Their authorized dealer sold a bad guitar and Abasi refused to take responsibility, and then went back on what little concession they were able to give me, and now ignores me. The brand is effectively dead to me and I even enjoy the new AAL album just a little bit less now. Avoid Abasi. And this is coming from a decades-long superfan of the guy.


----------



## jephjacques

oh boy here we go again


----------



## ShredmasterD

About 50% of the guitars I buy online go back. no lie. some dealers are better than others and care but many just ship stuff even though they claim they thoroughly check them out. I have found its pretty much BS because I have gotten some dog guitars from these dealers.. These days I ask them to open the box and look for specific issues. its a numbers game. manufacturers and sellers are interested in moving inventory, their bottom line and so QC is of little concern. Was talking to a music store owner a few days ago and they didnt give exact numbers but he said it would knock me off me feet if he told me the numbers of guitars they send back to manufacturers for flaws or plain bad builds. I just bought a Mexican Wolfgang stealth last week. It showed up new in box and the neck screws were stripped out and one was sticking about a 1/4 inch out flopping around in the hole. a few weeks before that I bought a US Fender Mustang as a gift for someone. Sent that back because the fret sprout was insane on a US made Fender. Its the new normal. it sucks. Buying online is not ideal. and that's is new gear, never mind Reverb/ebay shills claiming excellent condition and it shows up like it was kept in a turnpike public restroom for the last 3 years.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Me sitting on a MAsters Series that turned out actually good. 

This is sad to see.


----------



## Dayn

Yeesh, I've seen cheap B-stock Indonesian guitars with less glaring issues.


----------



## narad

It's funny - when those things first came out in Japan the dealers were treating them like hot shit. It was one of the only guitars that I was turned down from trying out at one place. Now I wonder if they just wanted me to keep my distance to not see all the glaring faults!


----------



## jephjacques

the story I got from Falbo is the dealers wanted them ASAP- to the point where he said they "weren't done" and the dealers told him they'd "finish them themselves" and to ship them out anyway. I don't know how much stock to put in that, but it's what I was told.

I'm pretty sure Sezna's guitar is the one I tried in the store- it definitely had some of that ghosting/polish residue/whatever at the neck joint, but it was nowhere near that extreme at the time. Looks to me like it sat in the shop for so long that the finish started to buckle from the wood shrinking and expanding, which would also explain that nasty fret sprout it seems to have now.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jephjacques said:


> the story I got from Falbo is the dealers wanted them ASAP- to the point where he said they "weren't done" and the dealers told him they'd "finish them themselves" and to ship them out anyway. I don't know how much stock to put in that, but it's what I was told.
> 
> I'm pretty sure Sezna's guitar is the one I tried in the store- it definitely had some of that ghosting/polish residue/whatever at the neck joint, but it was nowhere near that extreme at the time. Looks to me like it sat in the shop for so long that the finish started to buckle from the wood shrinking and expanding, which would also explain that nasty fret sprout it seems to have now.



You forgot the part about the Yakuza breaking peoples' legs, according to Flabo at least.


----------



## jephjacques

MaxOfMetal said:


> You forgot the part about the Yakuza breaking peoples' legs, according to Flabo at least.


lmao


----------



## Jonathan20022

Isn't it bizarre that they've essentially been selling out runs of guitars constantly, and identify a potential PR nightmare in it's early stages but don't just fix the problem?

I'm open to get educated, but are all of these instruments being sold at a loss? Are they making so little money that it doesn't just make sense to buy out the Falbo inventory from the Japanese retailers and throw them in a bonfire/vault them for no one to see ever again? Why even let that shit float around with your brand name and deal with situations like the dude above each time a Falbo is being bought *new* from an *authorized dealer*.

Not honoring a promise/cutting contact isn't acceptable either, but I usually have to see both sides of the communication to really know how to feel about it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jonathan20022 said:


> Isn't it bizarre that they've essentially been selling out runs of guitars constantly, and identify a potential PR nightmare in it's early stages but don't just fix the problem?
> 
> I'm open to get educated, but are all of these instruments being sold at a loss? Are they making so little money that it doesn't just make sense to buy out the Falbo inventory from the Japanese retailers and throw them in a bonfire/vault them for no one to see ever again? Why even let that shit float around with your brand name and deal with situations like the dude above each time a Falbo is being bought *new* from an *authorized dealer*.
> 
> Not honoring a promise/cutting contact isn't acceptable either, but I usually have to see both sides of the communication to really know how to feel about it.



They don't care because they're still selling like crazy. 

There's no incentive to do better.


----------



## mastapimp

I keep seeing the term "authorized dealer" being thrown around regarding this debacle. I know they made a handful of guitars for japan like 3-4 years ago, but is Ikebe still handling the current Abasis? Has Abasi had any authorized dealers since doing their drop business model? I did a search on the japanese seller's website and all that comes up are his dunlop picks. The guy that bought the guitar was even warned when he asked about an "old school frank guitar" back in 2019. Everything about that guitar screams it's the old model...pickup rings, burl top with matte/gloss, wenge neck...the buyer got duped by someone trying to offload a guitar that's been sitting in the shop for years. Should send it back to Japan for a refund. I doubt Abasi really cares considering this is for a guitar that they don't even offer from a builder that they dumped years ago.


----------



## narad

mastapimp said:


> Should send it back to Japan for a refund.



I mean, good luck with that. I'm amazed he got even a partial refund.


----------



## Jonathan20022

mastapimp said:


> I keep seeing the term "authorized dealer" being thrown around regarding this debacle. I know they made a handful of guitars for japan like 3-4 years ago, but is Ikebe still handling the current Abasis? Has Abasi had any authorized dealers since doing their drop business model? I did a search on the japanese seller's website and all that comes up are his dunlop picks. The guy that bought the guitar was even warned when he asked about an "old school frank guitar" back in 2019. Everything about that guitar screams it's the old model...pickup rings, burl top with matte/gloss, wenge neck...the buyer got duped by someone trying to offload a guitar that's been sitting in the shop for years. Should send it back to Japan for a refund. I doubt Abasi really cares considering this is for a guitar that they don't even offer from a builder that they dumped years ago.


You can absolutely make an argument legally that they owe no responsibility to said Ikebe customers who purchased Abasi's. But thats the kind of shit you see drop shipping companies with randomized letters in your name, they'll never be remembered. It's just bad practice to let product float under your brand name, especially one tied to your birth name. 

The thought of "I had a falling out with the person who built those instruments, so we're no longer holding ourselves responsible for them." Is a shit precedent. I'm just saying that if I had a solid enough revenue stream, and 2 - 3% of my products were ill representations of what I produced I'd remove them from the market even if it cost me. It was only 4 - 5 instruments from that run in Japan, couldn't have cost that much to strike an agreement.

I only say this because it's scummy to tell your customer that Gen 1 of your products aren't serviceable because you severed ties with the previous builder. The Falbo run was so short lived, that I'd doubt they would do that with the Grover Jackson run of products, since there's likely 100+ instruments out there. 

I hardly do any buying sight unseen or without a decent amount of research, but this should be concerning to anyone considering an Abasi in general.


----------



## Dayn

Jonathan20022 said:


> You can absolutely make an argument legally that they owe no responsibility to said Ikebe customers who purchased Abasi's. But thats the kind of shit you see drop shipping companies with randomized letters in your name, they'll never be remembered. It's just bad practice to let product float under your brand name, especially one tied to your birth name.
> 
> The thought of "I had a falling out with the person who built those instruments, so we're no longer holding ourselves responsible for them." Is a shit precedent. I'm just saying that if I had a solid enough revenue stream, and 2 - 3% of my products were ill representations of what I produced I'd remove them from the market even if it cost me. It was only 4 - 5 instruments from that run in Japan, couldn't have cost that much to strike an agreement.
> 
> I only say this because it's scummy to tell your customer that Gen 1 of your products aren't serviceable because you severed ties with the previous builder. The Falbo run was so short lived, that I'd doubt they would do that with the Grover Jackson run of products, since there's likely 100+ instruments out there.
> 
> I hardly do any buying sight unseen or without a decent amount of research, but this should be concerning to anyone considering an Abasi in general.


It's like buying an iPhone, going to an Apple store, and being told to fuck off to China to deal with whichever factory installed the exact hardware causing you an issue.

It's that goddamn Spongebob meme. "They're called Abasi guitars." "Yep." "They have your name on it." "Ahuh." "And you had them built so you could sell them as Abasi guitars." "Sounds right." "So it's your guitar." "It's a Falbo."


----------



## bassisace

sezna said:


> Unfortunately I've a negative experience to report.
> 
> I've GAS'd for an Abasi ever since the first Ibanez concepts were out. Back then I'd email Ibanez every month asking when the sig was dropping. I finally managed to snag one on Reverb from Japan, signed by Abasi himself and with specs that I generally like.
> View attachment 115578
> 
> 
> It was advertised as a new USA model, and there are photos of Tosin holding it. And he signed it.
> View attachment 115579
> 
> 
> 
> Surely this is a good one, because the man himself played it and signed it! Surely this guitar is safe from the QC woes!!!
> 
> So I got the guitar, and....
> *
> View attachment 115580
> View attachment 115581
> *
> 
> wtf?? Glue seeping out of the joint, the bridge feels terrible (it is a tremolo but doesn't stay in tune and has maybe a quarter tone's worth of backwards travel), and in general the details are just not there at all. I mean look at those fret slots. What?
> 
> 
> So I messaged Abasi Concepts and they told me it is a Falbo model and they're therefore not really responsible for it. From my perspective, Abasi's authorized dealer advertised this as a new guitar with no issues, and Tosin himself endorsed it with his signature. It should not be on the customer to research serial numbers and do whatever sleuthing is necessary to ensure they don't get a Falbo guitar.
> 
> I offered to send it back to them, or maybe exchange it for another guitar, or whatever -- they only offered me a reserved slot in a new run of laradas. Ah yes, permission to buy another guitar, great.
> 
> I ended up getting a partial refund from the Japanese music store and am still sitting on this guitar. The worst part is, after Abasi offered to reserve me a new USA or J series Larada, _they went back on that promise and started ignoring me_. Run after run came out, and they just refused to give me a spot.
> 
> So here I am, writing this review, which Abasi could have avoided had they given me an ounce of respect. Their authorized dealer sold a bad guitar and Abasi refused to take responsibility, and then went back on what little concession they were able to give me, and now ignores me. The brand is effectively dead to me and I even enjoy the new AAL album just a little bit less now. Avoid Abasi. And this is coming from a decades-long superfan of the guy.


Ish... I feel for you man! Suhr and EBMM actually tell stores not to sell defective instruments. Dealers who don't follow that rule risk getting their "authorized dealer" privileges revoked.


----------



## sezna

Dayn said:


> It's that goddamn Spongebob meme. "They're called Abasi guitars." "Yep." "They have your name on it." "Ahuh." "And you had them built so you could sell them as Abasi guitars." "Sounds right." "So it's your guitar." "It's a Falbo."


Exactly! They should recall them from the stores if they don't represent the brand anymore. 

I realize this one is somewhat on me given that I am on this forum and should know better. But GAS makes the knees weak. Honestly the two things that really annoy me are just their attitude and the fact they made a promise and reneged on it. Why offer something and then ghost a customer?


----------



## luca9583

Quick question on the narrower than standard string spacing. Does this eventually taper out to standard spaced bridge saddles or are the bridges notched to have narrower string spacing too?

Curious as i love narrower than standard spacing on ERGs and remember trying a Blackmachine F8 that was narrow and super comfortable


----------



## AltecGreen

narad said:


> It's funny - when those things first came out in Japan the dealers were treating them like hot shit. It was one of the only guitars that I was turned down from trying out at one place. Now I wonder if they just wanted me to keep my distance to not see all the glaring faults!




I saw them when I was in Japan in 2019. I saw them at G-Club and at Miyaji. I had already heard the stories so I took a look. The ones I saw all had very visible flaws from even a few feet away. It took years for these stores to move those guitars. Ikebe has one more used one and that might be the last of the Falbo ones in Japan.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Ooof. Space Ts dropped and only 1 has sold


----------



## Cockandballs

The hype is dead. Plethora on reverb now.


----------



## jephjacques

The Space T has always seemed like a niche design even by Abasi standards, I'm not shocked they don't fly off the shelves at this point. I am pretty interested in his EBMM collab guitar, the aesthetics are very love-it-or-hate-it but I like the idea of EBMM reliability on something Tosin designed.


----------



## The Blue Ghost

Someone is selling a left handed Legion for 4300 eur plus shipping on Reverb. You can't make this shit up lol https://reverb.com/item/60075789-ab...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=60075789


----------



## Inanimate100

That literally insane. Would anyone actually pay that ?? Hugely overpriced.


----------



## Alberto7

Doubt it will sell soon. Most Larada Legions on Reverb have been selling at around the 3k CAD point, plus or mins 500 CAD.


----------



## gunshow86de

It seems like such an odd choice to relic a modern/ergonomic guitar. For me, relic only works when it give the vibe of an actual vintage instrument.

These color combos are nice, but with the relic it just looks like they suffered an accident or had a negligent owner.


----------



## MrWulf

I mean with the current economy theres probably better things to do than buying an overpriced, overhyped instruments.


----------



## cip 123

gunshow86de said:


> It seems like such an odd choice to relic a modern/ergonomic guitar. For me, relic only works when it give the vibe of an actual vintage instrument.
> 
> These color combos are nice, but with the relic it just looks like they suffered an accident or had a negligent owner.


I think relic'ing on modern instruments is great the juxtaposition of modern and old at the same time is a really cool look.

We all know that guitar isn't from the 50's and they can keep building them with poly finishes and they'll all look the same and never age even after 20 years, but it's cool to give off an "alternate history" vibe.

I like relic'ing on modern instruments more than I like it on traditional instruments. Give me a nitro finished relic'd RG2228 over the same old 60's style strat any day.

Modern poly finishes are great to protect guitars, but I think a lot of guitars have missed out on some really cool aged looks just by virtue of being modern.


----------



## cardinal

I think the relic treatment is sometimes used as an excuse to avoid having to actually apply a flawless finish, which is very difficult.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> I think the relic treatment is sometimes used as an excuse to avoid having to actually apply a flawless finish, which is very difficult.



That's definitely the case for a lot of builders, but a proper relic still takes a lot of work, and believe it or not, starts out with a well done finish before the process. 

Jay Nelson at Fender has explained that he still has to do a first rate finish for the to-be-relic'd CS builds. 

I want to say Tom Murphy or Jim DeCola at Gibson explained how if you have a poor finish it doesn't relic properly, something about the checking not being believable. 

But it's definitely a crutch for a lot of builders I see pop up on the socials, usually boasting about affordability vs. the bigger or more boutique shops. 

Also, do we consider those old Falbo builds relix'd by that standard?


----------



## CanserDYI

I personally really enjoy relic'd guitars. Sure I find the aesthetic pretty cool, sue me, but I just love not worrying about nicking and dinging a guitar. You can really play it...

I personally love a modern/vintage mashup relic, what I wouldn't really like though is like some 2020 Legator that was relic'd. That makes no sense to me. Even if it was well done. It's gotta have some sort of vintage vibe.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

My chapagne supernova relic is flawless. I think it takes more work to get a finish like that done. A lot of thought went into it.


----------



## jephjacques

I used to be super anti-relicing, but it's grown on me a lot over the years. It's like distressed jeans.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

gunshow86de said:


> It seems like such an odd choice to relic a modern/ergonomic guitar. For me, relic only works when it give the vibe of an actual vintage instrument.
> 
> These color combos are nice, but with the relic it just looks like they suffered an accident or had a negligent owner.


Can't have a B-stock with a relic


----------



## SCJR

Hard to tell because who knows how long ago he actually started the process with EBMM but I wonder if that venture was a hedge against the Abasi line when he saw the writing on the wall? Just a thought.


----------



## jephjacques

Nah, it's just money. Who knows what the deal is but I'm sure he's getting good compensation from EBMM.


----------



## sleep51

SCJR said:


> Hard to tell because who knows how long ago he actually started the process with EBMM but I wonder if that venture was a hedge against the Abasi line when he saw the writing on the wall? Just a thought.


what the fan boys want is 8 string laradas and those still sell out pretty much instantly when they drop. Have they even done any since January? I don’t really get the writing on the wall comment, seems ott. If they’re still selling out space ts and 6 string Laradas at 3.5k+ I think its a sign that they’re still doing okay with sales.


----------



## sleep51

apologies, I meant to edit my last post because I saw the latest master 8 drop but accidentally double posted. I think considering the current economy they still seem to be shifting them fairly well.


----------



## SCJR

sleep51 said:


> apologies, I meant to edit my last post because I saw the latest master 8 drop but accidentally double posted. I think considering the current economy they still seem to be shifting them fairly well.



By writing on the wall I meant what I've seen around here, that several people have had QC issues and that the hype has slowed down significantly when these do drop. Not long ago people were losing guitars in their cart to people just a second or two faster to buy them and now several models sit beyond that.


----------



## TheHardwareChap

Emi 7 drop seems to be coming up soon


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

TheHardwareChap said:


> Emi 7 drop seems to be coming up soon





TheHardwareChap said:


> Emi 7 drop seems to be coming up soon



I'm sure the 12 people who buy their guitars will care a lot.


----------



## baptizedinblood

Emi looks good. Might gun for the "DAT PVRP" finish.


----------



## Hollowway

Anyone got any background on why it's called Emi? (Or Larada, for that matter.)

And, those things sold out quickly. I have zero desire to get a Larada or Emi, UNLESS, the Tosin-likes-8s crosses over with the Tosin-makes-emis-with-trems and makes a Floyd 8 Emi. Then I'd have to seriously consider it.


----------



## Mboogie7

The Emi almost reminds me of a Vola.


----------



## Cockandballs

Ok. Who’s the crackhead trying to sell the Emi for $10k?


----------



## Alberto7

Cockandballs said:


> Ok. Who’s the crackhead trying to sell the Emi for $10k?


Jesús fucking Cristo, just saw that on Reverb. It's nuts!


----------



## The Blue Ghost

Well he said he's accepting offers so he might very well go for 9.9k or even 9.5k if you're lucky


----------



## Inanimate100

I honestly do find this unacceptable. Money grabbing at its finest.


----------



## CanserDYI

Ngl, the Emi does look sick in my opinion. Make it 1299 like it ought to be and I'll be interested in the shape a little more.


----------



## Agalloch

Haha, wow. I love when people post a guitar for fucking $10k on Reverb and include ONE photo of said guitar. Or, as in some cases, a blurry, pixelated shot that doesn't even show the whole guitar.

On a related note, the Emi and the Kaizen look pretty similar to me, just with a reversed lower bout.


----------



## Cockandballs

The Kaizen is at least made by a real builder. Everyone in this group seems to have dumped these guitars, endless QC issues, and an abundant for sale for other models. They’ve become the Ed Hardy of guitars. But the Kaizen is pretty cool in terms of design - lots of detail and thought in there. Emi looks like a poor man’s Sterling - don’t get it.


----------



## Alberto7

CanserDYI said:


> Ngl, the Emi does look sick in my opinion. Make it 1299 like it ought to be and I'll be interested in the shape a little more.


It's funny, cause I don't like the Emi, but you mention $1299 and suddenly I genuinely like it enough to think to myself "yeah I'd consider this".


----------



## Lordcephid

Don't see it on reverb anymore, did someone actually buy it?


----------



## HungryGuitarStudent

Alberto7 said:


> It's funny, cause I don't like the Emi, but you mention $1299 and suddenly I genuinely like it enough to think to myself "yeah I'd consider this".


How much was it?

I like it visually. If I could try one and thoroughly inspect the build, then I’d consider it (depending on price obviously).


----------



## Alberto7

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> How much was it?
> 
> I like it visually. If I could try one and thoroughly inspect the build, then I’d consider it (depending on price obviously).


I didn't actually get to see the prices, but I'd assume they sold for the same amount as a Master Series Larada, so around the $5k mark if I'm not wrong?


----------



## TheCanadianNews

New to the thread, and did some reading of bad experiences earlier in the launch of the brand. Save for a few bad products recently, it seems like 90% of the Abasi guitars people receive in 2022 are good? Did they work out QC?

I really want to get one of the J Laradas (when do they release?) but want to not have buyers regret unnecessarily or panic a $3k guitar could have unusual risk for issues.


----------



## Alberto7

TheCanadianNews said:


> New to the thread, and did some reading of bad experiences earlier in the launch of the brand. Save for a few bad products recently, it seems like 90% of the Abasi guitars people receive in 2022 are good? Did they work out QC?
> 
> I really want to get one of the J Laradas (when do they release?) but want to not have buyers regret unnecessarily or panic a $3k guitar could have unusual risk for issues.



A 10% chance of letting a lemon out the door is really bad by any industry's standards. Then again, these still seem to hold most of their value, so as long as you get them brand new from Abasi Concepts you won't incur much of a risk, should you not like it and/decide to part with it.

EDIT: idk why I post here so much, I've never even seen one of these in the flesh...


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## TheCanadianNews

Alberto7 said:


> A 10% chance of letting a lemon out the door is really bad by any industry's standards. Then again, these still seem to hold most of their value, so as long as you get them brand new from Abasi Concepts you won't incur much of a risk, should you not like it and/decide to part with it.
> 
> EDIT: idk why I post here so much, I've never even seen one of these in the flesh...


Yeah, no offense but if I said 99% everyone who had a bad experience would pile on, but 90% means everyone says that's unacceptable QC. Neither of us have the actual numbers, so I think you're missing my point.

I'd also like someone who actually owns the guitars, to your point, to weigh in here.


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## baptizedinblood

Vocal minority is often the loudest. If the Abasi issues were as widespread as everyone here believes them to be, you'd hear more of it beyond our little echo chamber of a thread.


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## narad

baptizedinblood said:


> Vocal minority is often the loudest. If the Abasi issues were as widespread as everyone here believes them to be, you'd hear more of it beyond our little echo chamber of a thread.



Or, alternative take, the people buying the Abasis are not hung-up on such issues, not able to diagnose such issues, or overlook them because they are Abasi mega fans. Who knows.


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## MaxOfMetal

It's probably somewhere in the middle. 

I was finally able to track down a couple of these to try out, both USA Grover builds, and they were fine. 

No glaring issues, well made, about as solid as anything else in that price range. 

But it wasn't anything special either, and while I generally liked them, I don't think I'll ever want to buy one. 

Coming from owning a fair amount of high end stuff I wasn't "wowed", but if you're coming from something like a Korean Schecter or Indo Strandberg I could see someone thinking these are amazing.


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## baptizedinblood

narad said:


> Or, alternative take, the people buying the Abasis are not hung-up on such issues, not able to diagnose such issues, or overlook them because they are Abasi mega fans. Who knows.


Eh, I've been on quite a few guitar forums over the years. They are prone to becoming echo chambers and forming cults and/or dogpiles on brands. No brand is immune to it.

I'm a big Abasi fan but didn't buy until trying one out in person, and I was genuinely impressed. My overall experience comes from mid/upper guitars though, nothing supremely high end just yet so my frame of reference may not be as refined as others here.


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## narad

baptizedinblood said:


> Eh, I've been on quite a few guitar forums over the years. They are prone to becoming echo chambers and forming cults and/or dogpiles on brands. No brand is immune to it.
> 
> I'm a big Abasi fan but didn't buy until trying one out in person, and I was genuinely impressed. My overall experience comes from mid/upper guitars though, nothing supremely high end just yet so my frame of reference may not be as refined as others here.



Sure, but there have also been plenty of shit over-hyped guitars that plowed through collecting more orders on brand power, while people were reluctant to point out problems with them. Especially true when some well known players is pushing them. That's happened so many times, that naturally there's a lot of cynicism. Especially when it has already happened_ to Abasi Guitars. _We went through this whole ordeal already, and the messaging from Abasi was basically identically optimistic and proud of the instruments, and touted their quality, until they didn't.

It's hard to calibrate the truth of things over the entire set of instruments made, but there's no reason to dismiss things as echo chambers just because the account of multiple people post unsatisfactory experiences doesn't fit with your own hands-on experience (otherwise known as a mix of sample bias and anecdotal evidence). I'm not saying they're good or bad, just that the path of reasoning leading you to conclude contradictory experience as forum echo chamber is not very sound.


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## bassisace

baptizedinblood said:


> Vocal minority is often the loudest. If the Abasi issues were as widespread as everyone here believes them to be, you'd hear more of it beyond our little echo chamber of a thread.



Echo chamber? What? There’s a wide spectrum of opinions on the Abasi lines in this thread. Lovers, haters and people in between.

About a dozen buyers have posted pics or did descriptions of QC issues.

A lot of them were with the first Legion line: badly glue nuts, tool marks on body and pickups, bad headstock paint jobs, …

The USA Masters and J Larada lines have gotten good reviews from most in this thread.

I didn’t hear any Emi feedback from anyone in this thread.

Far from an echo chamber. The thread is hundreds of pages long…


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## getowned7474

I had one of the Korean made Legion Larada's and it was fine. It wasn't perfect and definitely was a little overpriced for 2k but it was a sig model with some cool features so it was expected. But it was overall a good guitar, better than most to be honest, I've played 2k guitars that were worse. Similar to what MaxOfMetal said about the American made ones, the one I owned was fine IMO. It sounded 95% like the Tosin sound which was cool if you were a fan. I think if they cleaned up their business practices and QC that I've heard complaints about than I don't have any issues with what they are doing. It was better than the Kiesel I owned so that's something I guess?


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## bassisace

getowned7474 said:


> I had one of the Korean made Legion Larada's and it was fine. It wasn't perfect and definitely was a little overpriced for 2k but it was a sig model with some cool features so it was expected. But it was overall a good guitar, better than most to be honest, I've played 2k guitars that were worse. Similar to what MaxOfMetal said about the American made ones, the one I owned was fine IMO. It sounded 95% like the Tosin sound which was cool if you were a fan. I think if they cleaned up their business practices and QC that I've heard complaints about than I don't have any issues with what they are doing. It was better than the Kiesel I owned so that's something I guess?


I own a Kiesel v7 and an aries 6. The build quality is pristine. Definitely better than the Legion I tried.

It had a badly glued nut and bleeding paint on the headstock. That may be ok for a 500$ guitar, but not at 2k. In that price range I'd go with Kiesel, Ibanez, ...

The J and Masters laradas seem to be way better built. They may be worth the 5k. I haven't tried one yet.


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## TheCanadianNews

getowned7474 said:


> I had one of the Korean made Legion Larada's and it was fine. It wasn't perfect and definitely was a little overpriced for 2k but it was a sig model with some cool features so it was expected. But it was overall a good guitar, better than most to be honest, I've played 2k guitars that were worse. Similar to what MaxOfMetal said about the American made ones, the one I owned was fine IMO. It sounded 95% like the Tosin sound which was cool if you were a fan. I think if they cleaned up their business practices and QC that I've heard complaints about than I don't have any issues with what they are doing. It was better than the Kiesel I owned so that's something I guess?


This is really helpful to compare to a Kiesel. As far as brands are concerned, I hear a lot about Kiesel, Aristides, besides Abasi on this thread. Those are good comparisons.


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## getowned7474

bassisace said:


> I own a Kiesel v7 and an aries 6. The build quality is pristine. Definitely better than the Legion I tried.
> 
> It had a badly glued nut and bleeding paint on the headstock. That may be ok for a 500$ guitar, but not at 2k. In that price range I'd go with Kiesel, Ibanez, ...
> 
> The J and Masters laradas seem to be way better built. They may be worth the 5k. I haven't tried one yet.


Maybe they have gotten better more recently? I had a 2016 VM8 I think it was? It was from the first run of VM8's. It's the only one I've owned but the flaws on mine were pretty typical of other builds at the time from what I saw. It was a great guitar for the money, just not exceptional or pristine in any way, definitely not worth getting lots of upgrades and hiking up the price. It had several paint issues with bleeding, runs, and splatter.. The nut was pretty sharp and not perfectly cut if I remember correctly. I think the pickups were badly potted or unpotted they squealed like crazy compared to any guitar I've ever owned. The neck wood didn't fit the locking headpiece part well, it had some raw exposed wood (not a huge deal but it wasn't even sanded and could be an issue with maple in my humid climate). The laminated neck was uneven, some of the wood laminates poked out more than other other pieces so the back of the neck wasn't smooth. The fretwork was ok, couldn't get the action super low but low enough for most people probably, definitely no where near some of the higher end guitars I've owned though. The bridge was hard to turn and the tuning knobs were wiggly and loose, they never would align straight and would grind together. The clamping parts of the head stock would slip all the time and cut strings and waste expensive custom string sets often because of the way the slots were machined. The fret markers were misaligned... that one is the only one I've listed so far that annoyed me to be honest since it's so simple to get right. 

But to be honest most of all that was fairly minor for a $1600 headless multiscale 8 string in 2016 when there was less options than now. It was on par with Korean WMI guitars I feel, solid guitar but with a few flaws. Not quite as good as Ibanez Prestiges I had and a noticeable step down from my Musicman guitars. In comparison the Abasi surprised me in that it had great fret work, on par with my Music man and Ibanez prestige guitars. It had some paint minor paint flaws similar to the Kiesel and it was neck heavy since it had a light basswood body and a big headstock. Otherwise not much to complain about other than the balance and minor paint flaws.



TheCanadianNews said:


> This is really helpful to compare to a Kiesel. As far as brands are concerned, I hear a lot about Kiesel, Aristides, besides Abasi on this thread. Those are good comparisons.


If I had to rate my personal experience with those three (I've only have had one of each at this point so take it with a massive grain of salt), Aristides >>> (Legion) Abasi > Kiesel. The fretwork on the Kiesel wasn't quite as good and overall built felt less polished than the Abasi but wasn't too far off in overall quality. The Aristides is sort of in it's own league though. So much that sold most of my guitars and have 2 more on order right now.


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