# Any tips on just trying to slim down?



## phrygian12 (Jul 1, 2013)

I'm a little bit of a chubby guy and trying to lose belly fat. 

I've been told to do cardio, I just started jogging on my treadmill with it incline for about 20 to 25 minutes, keeping my heart rate up of course. After while trying to catch my breath I do 30 crunches while my heart is still racing from the jog. Been doing this for about a week and half now.

I do watch what I eat, trying to stay away from bread and anything with a lot of sugar in it.( Not fun going out drinking water while your friends are drinking beer) 

Also was told not to do crunches too much because I'd get abs under my belly fat rather than burning it and make me look bigger...but at the same time I've been told if you do it with your cardio it does burn fat quick. 

Basically I have no idea what I'm doing and would like some sort of good direction Any tips of things to do, not to do, eat, not eat will be greatly appreciated. http://i.imgur.com/ga7H9Kv.jpg me on the left of course. I just want to really slim down and then maybe start weight lifting to get some tone.


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## theo (Jul 1, 2013)

Cardio and diet are two massive things.
Have you considered martial arts? A fun and effective way to get yourself pretty fit


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## UnderTheSign (Jul 1, 2013)

Start weightlifting now, why wait? 
Also, proper diet and HIIT cardio are key to weight loss.


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## zuzek (Jul 1, 2013)

1) Find out how many calories you need to eat to maintain your current weight.

2) Count your calories to make sure that you maintain a caloric deficit. The intensity of the deficit is up to you but I would maintain it at -20%. Say your maintenance intake is 2500 kcal, then consume 2000 kcal.

3) Eat CLEAN. No sugars of any kind (honey is fine, preferably raw), try to consume as little wheat products as possible and stick as much as possible to low glycemic index, complex carb foods. For protein eat eggs (discard yolks, not more than 1-2 a day) and chicken breast. Cutting foods are boring if you do not follow a ketogenic diet*, so it is just a question of your own willpower and discipline. Drink 2 at least 2.5 litres of water a day. Ditch other drinks unless they are cranberry juice (not from concentrate) or a variant of green tea.

4) Exercise; weight training is solid but make sure you at least do HIIT 10-15 minutes for 2-3 times a week. Longer periods of cardiovascular training are good for enhancing stamina, but less so for losing fat. Read up a bit on HIIT and don't tax yourself too hard right away, immerse yourself slowly into it. Especially if you have not been very active before (couldn't tell this from the OP).

Those crunches are not going to help you burn fat specifically on your stomach. I'd say they're a shitty exercise anyway. If you want to train your abs as well (can only recommend that!), I suggest hanging leg raises. While it is true that each person has 'preferred storage spaces' in terms of fat, the myth that you can target which body part to lose fat at is bullshit. Most people generally just greatly underestimate their body fat percentage or have a belly due to other causes (in my opinion, probably due to too high wheat consumption).

* A ketogenic diet is a diet where your macronutrients are mostly fat and protein and very, very low carbs. Since you are new at this I cannot recommend you to dive into it. That said, it is how I have done cutting stages and it's my preferred method. If you are interested in it, make sure you read a lot about it.


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## Bevo (Jul 1, 2013)

Lots of good information here but keep it super simple.
Calories in must be less than calories out.

Using this and doing homework as to what the exercise burns plus reading the labels on what you eat help get you down.
The second part is to find out what you need per day as explained above but keep in mind these numbers are fluid and change as you change and are different for everyone.

The last part is eat as clean as possible, you want the least amount of processed foods and sugars. You also know what makes you and everyone else fat, stay away from it.

After doing this for a bit you will have more questions and become more fit knowing they type of sport or exercise you like. When your there you will then understand exactly what your body needs.

Also post up any questions, lots of great help here.


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## UnderTheSign (Jul 1, 2013)

zuzek said:


> For protein eat eggs (discard yolks, not more than 1-2 a day)


Don't discard eggs and eat more than 1-2 eggs a day if you feel like it. Just beware of the farts.


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## zuzek (Jul 1, 2013)

UnderTheSign said:


> Don't discard eggs and eat more than 1-2 eggs a day if you feel like it. Just beware of the farts.



Depends entirely on your macro's. With 1-2 I meant yolks, not egg whites. The OP can eat a dozen eggwhites if he wants to. I eat 4-5 whole eggs because I follow a ketogenic diet when I cut. A more viable/common weight loss diet is not going to go that same route.


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## tommychains (Jul 2, 2013)

Cut down on frozen meals. If possible, avoid them completely. I did the same for another reason (blood pressure), and ended up losing 10 pounds. There's nothing wrong with frozen vegetables, but they lose most of their nutritional value and flavor once frozen. Try to eat fresh vegetables with every meal, even if it's a pepper with the eggs in the morning.

I actually am in the process of growing my own vegetables and herbs. I currently planted only garlic, but have the seeds for:

Sweet basil, chives, parsley, mint, and cilantro (VERY beneficial, just named a superfood). 

The garlic's smell actually keeps away all the animals in my area clear from it, they hate the smell of it combined with the basil. I love it though.

The only reason I suggest this is maintaining the garden can be an excuse to go outside. Run a few laps around the block, jumping jacks, etc. Plus, can't get healthier than home grown and freshly picked.

P.S. if you have the time to cook every meal fresh, do it. Reason being, you know almost EXACTLY what you're eating. No more mysteries.


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## phrygian12 (Jul 2, 2013)

zuzek said:


> 1) Find out how many calories you need to eat to maintain your current weight.
> 
> 2) Count your calories to make sure that you maintain a caloric deficit. The intensity of the deficit is up to you but I would maintain it at -20%. Say your maintenance intake is 2500 kcal, then consume 2000 kcal.
> 
> ...



alots of awesome information annnnd I don't mean to sound like an idiot...but uhm...How can I figure out how much of my calorie intake is? Do I just go on a day counting how much calories I take or is it by judging my my height and weight sorta thing? 

I'm not a super active person, but I do have sort of a physical job, I'm constantly walking, moving heavy items and pretty much on my feet for at least 7 to 8 hours. 

It's kinda late right now, but I've taken the advice from you guys (thanks again!) and looked into HIIT. When I do my 20 minute jogs I start with walking at 3 mph for about 3 minutes and then hit 5mph and actually start jogging for about 3 minutes or so and then back to walking at 3mph for one minute rest and repeating basically till I get to 18 minutes into it then I jog at 6mph till my 20 minutes are up. I think next week I'll go for 30 minutes and just slowly raise the amount of time I do this? 

Is that sort of like HIIT? should I be more drastic and do other things besides jogging/walking slightly fast? 

I'll stop with the crunches and try out those Hang leg raises, but I don't really have anything to hang on ( I'll find something) is there anything else I could do? I'm exactly trying to build abs, more of just trying to burn the fat off my tummy. 

I'll look more into Ketogenic Diet.

Thanks you guys! I got a lot of work ahead of me.


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## DanakinSkywalker (Jul 3, 2013)

phrygian12 said:


> alots of awesome information annnnd I don't mean to sound like an idiot...but uhm...How can I figure out how much of my calorie intake is? Do I just go on a day counting how much calories I take or is it by judging my my height and weight sorta thing?
> 
> I'm not a super active person, but I do have sort of a physical job, I'm constantly walking, moving heavy items and pretty much on my feet for at least 7 to 8 hours.
> 
> ...



I'm actually trying to do the same as you are right now. I found it super helpful to go onto Free Diet Plans at SparkPeople, create an account, and go to the nutrition and foods tab. You put in everything that you have eaten in a certain day for a week or more, and it tells you how many calories it is per day. Beforehand, you put in your weight, height, etc. so it can determine what you need. Good luck!


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## Majkel (Jul 3, 2013)

Here's my take on it (currently at 8% body fat, if actually having done it matters to you):

1. Doing crunches is not (realistically) going to give you a fatter belly. This is the same mentality as the old cliché that women avoid doing weight training in the gym for fear of suddenly becoming a body builder. You're grossly over-estimating how fast you actually build muscle. Doing crunches is not magically going to make you thinner either, though. The saying is "Abs are built in the kitchen, not in the gym", and that's the truth. Ab work in the gym is not a "magic bullet" that will give you different fat burning results from any other activity. This is not to say that you shouldn't be doing it, but I wouldn't prioritize it over other things.

2. LISS over HIIT for fat burning. If you're not in great shape, odds are your heart rate will increase far too much from HIIT where you won't be using fat as your energy source any more. Odds are also that if you're just starting out with this you're going to go too hard (mentally and physically), which increases the odds that you'll keep it up for a week or two and then "fall off the wagon". 

Also, using an app like RunKeeper it's pretty apparent that when it comes to cardio work for fat loss, the duration of the activity outweighs the intensity. If I run 6 miles (an hour) I'll end up with a lower kCal spent than if I walk it briskly (an 1.5 - 1.75 hours). 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJt9tpdpjvk

3. You need to do it for longer. The ONLY cardio work I do is that 6 mile (heavily undulating terrain) walk with a weighted backpack. It takes me about an hour and a half and burns (an estimated, it's all guess work with apps) ~700 kCal (I'm 184 centimeters weighing in at about 83 kg). That's a pretty big number for what is essentially no work. I walk it while listening to a podcast or two and come home drenched. I'd never step on a treadmill and do the same thing for that amount of time, and going for 30 minutes just isn't long enough to give you significant results. If it's that much work and no fun, you're not going to do it consistently.

4. If you really are walking and moving about as much as you think on a daily basis, then what you really should be looking at is mostly diet. If you consume a shitload of energy from being active all day and you're not losing weight, I wouldn't recommend being more active, but rather looking at your diet and trying to work out how and where you're over consuming calories. OR you could be grossly overestimating how much you actually _do_ move during the day. Keep RunKeeper running all day. Get a Nike Fuelband or something. Get an actual idea instead of a guesstimate.

5. Use the ShapeUp app. I can't stress enough how important it is to get an idea of how many calories are in the foods you eat. Cook your own food for a while, weighing and measuring, putting those recipes into ShapeUp - you'll quickly learn what works and what doesn't, and how much leeway you actually have in your consumption. ShapeUp will also calculate your daily nutritional intake and give you a calorie/basic macro nutrient plan based on your current measurements and your planned progress (and please don't go wild here - plan on dropping a maximum of 1-2 pounds per week). Also, and this is from experience, when you enter your daily activity level to calculate your BMR - be honest and put yourself one level below where you actually think you're at. It's almost never the case that a person is actually as active as they think they are. 

I work out for 1.5 - 2 hours five days a week, and I still put myself at moderately active.

6. Start lifting now. There's absolutely no sense in waiting. Weight lifting is an *awesome* fat burner once you start going heavy enough. Just do it.

7. This isn't a lot of fun to begin with. Diet and weight control are (imho) the hardest parts of doing any kind of physical change wether it be weight loss, maintenance or weight gain. I absolutely love doing weight training, so keeping discipline there is a non-issue for me. I also absolutely love smoking weed and eating a shit load of candy bars, and that absolutely clashes with having visible abs, so that's where I need to put in my difficult and disciplined work. The less of a "punishment" you make this, the easier it'll be. 

This can also be described as "The more exercise you do, the less you need to be strict with your diet, and vice versa". Get measurements and numbers so you know your leeway and your freedom within your diet.


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## Bevo (Jul 3, 2013)

More good information!

I would keep the intensity lower and slowly work up to it.
When you run keep it to 1-2 min run then walk the same but keep making the rest a bit shorter until your running non stop.
As you get more fit your speed will increase as will your calorie burning, hiit will do more harm to an untrained body but in a few weeks you will be good to go.

Crunches or core work don't stop but ad more to it, include push-ups, squats, lunges, burpees or pretty much anything so you hit your entire body.
Write down a routine, post it where you can read it on the floor then bang it off post haste! Go from one to the other and change as soon as you do 10 reps and NOT to failure, it should take you 2-3 min so repeat for a total of 12 min.

It does not sound like much but it along with your running 3-4 times a week along with your diet will transform your body in a few weeks.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Jul 3, 2013)

UnderTheSign said:


> Don't discard eggs and eat more than 1-2 eggs a day if you feel like it. Just beware of the farts.



FWIW I've never understood discarding yolks unless you're a contest BB prepping for the stage with only a couple of weeks to go.

They're a fantastic source of fats and protein and should be a part of everybody's diet (not to mention being the tastiest part of the egg)


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## Jlang (Jul 3, 2013)

Yoga , HIIT, and maintain a decent diet . ( you don't have to go all the way off the deep end just be mindful of the things you take in)

You will definitely start losing lbs.


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## XEN (Jul 3, 2013)

My recommendations:
Get a screening for food allergies and adjust your diet accordingly
Have your doc check your cholesterol and vitamin D levels, supplement as needed
Get rid of carbonated beverages altogether (I bend that rule for a daily Mountain Dew KickStart)
Drink water, and I mean drink a LOT of water
Walk, and I mean walk FAST, and for extended periods of time (learn proper racewalking techniques - it looks goofy as hell but it's a damn good workout, and far better for your joints than running)
Do some weight training making sure to not just target one area
Try Tai Chi

I've lost 36 pounds so far this year doing these things.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I eat every 2-3 hours, meal, snack, meal, snack, etc. I like CLIF Builders Bars for their lack of dairy (I'm allergic to milk).


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## JP Universe (Jul 3, 2013)

tommychains said:


> There's nothing wrong with frozen vegetables, but they lose most of their nutritional value and flavor once frozen.



Source?


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## Majkel (Jul 3, 2013)

JP Universe said:


> Source?



Fresh vs. Frozen Vegetables: Are we giving up nutrition for convenience? | Eating Well

I was actually surprised. I googled it looking to jump in with "No, they retain pretty much all of it", but apparently I was wrong!

Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frozen_vegetables

Looks like they do retain their values according to Wikipedia, though. Seems more reliable than eatingwell.com


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## Murmel (Jul 3, 2013)

^
Looking up actual info on nutrition and training is a real pain, because it's flooded with crap out there.


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## UnderTheSign (Jul 3, 2013)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> FWIW I've never understood discarding yolks unless you're a contest BB prepping for the stage with only a couple of weeks to go.
> 
> They're a fantastic source of fats and protein and should be a part of everybody's diet (not to mention being the tastiest part of the egg)


QFT
The yolks are the most nutritient-dense part of the egg. If eating yolks doesn't fit in your macros, you need to re-check your diet.


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## zuzek (Jul 3, 2013)

Murmel said:


> ^
> Looking up actual info on nutrition and training is a real pain, because it's flooded with crap out there.



Some of my go-to sources for info on these subjects are OmarIsuf, CanditoTrainingHQ and Elliott Hulse who post a lot of invaluable stuff on YouTube. If you're interested in learning more about either I recommend you check them out. Been watching their stuff for ages.


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## Bevo (Jul 3, 2013)

Food wise fresh or frozen is not a big deal, if all you ate was frozen then maybe but eating a mixed diet of fresh food that is not processed is much more important than worrying about frozen.
I eat frozen all the time, just make sure its veggies only not a mixed bag of salt and crap.


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## JP Universe (Jul 3, 2013)

JP Universe said:


> Source?


 
I was just wondering as there is a tonne of info out there supporting each side of the argument....

Personally I only eat frozen due to price and convenience. My belief is that it makes no difference based on the internet research I've done.

At the end of the day it isn't going to make a difference unless you're into bodybuilding or something


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## Mordacain (Jul 3, 2013)

If you want to slim down, nothing beats cardio. Building muscle will help burn fat quicker during your cardio workout, but building muscle alone won't slim you down as much.

Keep up the running and gradually build up your endurance so you can get longer sessions in. I dropped a good 25 lbs in a couple of months just with a combo of running and basic strength training: (push-ups, pull-ups, crunches, squats, etc using just my body weight and a couple of 8 lb hand weights). That was after I dropped 30 lbs over the preceding year with diet changes.

I alternate strength-training with cardio to keep my heart rate up. Also, if you choose to use weights / machines for the strength training component, keep the weight lower and use more reps. This will help build leaner muscle. Lean muscle is what really helps you burn fat.

As far as diet goes, I think frozen veggies are fine and they are better than no veggies at all. I'd suggest a healthy amount of lean protein, either fish, soy, turkey, chicken. Avoid much red meat / pork. Cut back on surplus carbs, but don't cut them out as they should be your chief energy source along with protein.


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## Aevolve (Jul 4, 2013)

Caloric deficit.


This will help. Beginner's Health and Fitness Guide


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## JP Universe (Jul 4, 2013)

^That article is awesome


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## Majkel (Jul 4, 2013)

JP Universe said:


> ^That article is awesome



+1, should be mandatory reading for everybody everywhere


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## bearmik (Jul 4, 2013)

Just wanna say that it's a BIG mistake if you try to loose some weight doing cardio. Your body will be everytime trying to adapt to the cardio exercise because it's something repetitive. Soon you will need to spend x2 time to loose the same calories that you would loose at the first day. Just try to use all-body exercises, and warm-up ur body with 15 or 10 min of cardio (changing the rythm).

Secondly, I'm sure that one of the biggest problems of the "fat" people (I was one of them) is that they eat every time in an emotional way. You can't be half of the day without eating nothing and come to your house and start eating without control. Try to eat 5 or 6 times per day, just try to eat on your conscience. NEVER let you get hungry. Also, try to eat as many type of food as you can. Variety is so good to our health!

Finally, take your time! Don't use any complements, because most of them are fake and you will only waste your money. Also, be patient with yourself, our body just works that way, and if it needs to change something, you can't do it fastly and safely at the same time. 

Hope you can get an athletic body soon 
Cheers


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## Mordacain (Jul 4, 2013)

bearmik said:


> Just wanna say that it's a BIG mistake if you try to loose some weight doing cardio. Your body will be everytime trying to adapt to the cardio exercise because it's something repetitive. Soon you will need to spend x2 time to loose the same calories that you would loose at the first day. Just try to use all-body exercises, and warm-up ur body with 15 or 10 min of cardio (changing the rythm).



I'm not sure if you meant to type something else, but it's patently ridiculous to suggest you can't lose weight doing pure cardio. Hell, I lost 10 lbs in a two week period just by running (before I even started my alternating day full body routines).

Cardio is key to burning fat. You want to vary your workouts day to day of course, but cardio needs to be a component, if for nothing else than keeping your heart rate up in between different exercises. That being said, the body gets used to having a ton of the same activity, regardless of what it is. Varying is key.

And no single exercise burns calories like running, which is pure cardio. Add running in addition to any workout or better yet, to start your workout and you'll make your strength training or full body workout much more effective.


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## TheKindred (Jul 4, 2013)

Mordacain said:


> Add running in addition to any workout or better yet, to start your workout and you'll make your strength training or full body workout much more effective.



i've always been under the impression that full cardio sessions should come at the end of a workout, not the beginning (other than some light cardio to get the heart pumping and generally warm up the body. but not get into the fat burning zone).

Anyone have insight to whether cardio is better before or after?


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## Ckackley (Jul 4, 2013)

I lost 15 pounds of mostly belly fat by doing two things- 
Stopped eating fast food. COMPLETELY 
Stop drinking soda. 

That's it.


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## UnderTheSign (Jul 4, 2013)

TheKindred said:


> i've always been under the impression that full cardio sessions should come at the end of a workout, not the beginning (other than some light cardio to get the heart pumping and generally warm up the body. but not get into the fat burning zone).
> 
> Anyone have insight to whether cardio is better before or after?


Think of it this way: if you start your workout with cardio, you'll waste a lot of energy that's better spent lifting weights. You want to be able to hit the weights with full strenght. Warming up is good, going balls out isn't. Intense cardio sessions should always come at the end of a work out or on a seperate day.


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## Mordacain (Jul 4, 2013)

UnderTheSign said:


> Think of it this way: if you start your workout with cardio, you'll waste a lot of energy that's better spent lifting weights. You want to be able to hit the weights with full strenght. Warming up is good, going balls out isn't. Intense cardio sessions should always come at the end of a work out or on a seperate day.



Lifting weights is not exactly what you are doing if you want to slim down. The OP wants to slim down, not bulk up to my understanding.

I agree with your assessment concerning Cardio if you are trying to build muscle as a priority over burning fat.

However, if you're burning fat you want to focus on three things: increasing your oxygen intake, keeping up your heart rate up and building lean muscle. You can certainly build lean muscle lifting weights, but you want less weight and a higher rep count, and you want a high heart rate. Most physical trainers alternate cardio with the strength training for that reason throughout the workout.

I agree that my balls-out cardio days (the 5+ mile run type) is the only real workout I do for the day, though I usually do a full basic body weight strength-training after that.

OP advised that he is a bit on the chubbier side, so he has more body fat to burn and likely needs to increase his capacity to send oxygen throughout his body to power himself, so he should focus on aerobic workouts in my opinion until he's really able to go through a real high-intensity workout.


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## Bevo (Jul 4, 2013)

That cardio comment is....... mom said be nice....wrong.

Cardio is super important even more so than pure weight training ( weights build cardio removes ).
Cardio before or after really depends on what type of training you do and where in your cycle it is. If your doing max lifts or reps you need every last ounce of energy, if your doing a high rep low weight cardio type lift routine then no problem.
Again, if your high rep cardio type workout is super long then do it after.

For me I always find when I lift I do a 15 min cardio warm up with nothing after, if its a light lifting day I will do a longer cardio work out so on my last lift I know its time to hit the showers or simply get out of the gym.

Cardio is huge, don't ever discount it and always keep in mind the simple weight loss math. Burn more than you eat to lose weight or opposite to gain.
Biking I burn 1,000 calories an hour at a brisk pace, Running I do 600 an hour at a brisk pace, how long to lose a pound?


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## TheKindred (Jul 4, 2013)

Mordacain said:


> Lifting weights is not exactly what you are doing if you want to slim down. The OP wants to slim down, not bulk up to my understanding.



I think you can lose more weight with strength training then with cardio (ideally they should be combined). You burn more calories and up your strength. While I'm sure he wants to slim down, i'm betting it's not to a "just as fatty but less weight" kinda composition. 

Diet is the big kicker for losing good weight. The lifting will give you a leaner meaner body. He won't turn into a hulk unless he eats like a hulk.


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## 7stg (Jul 4, 2013)

I know someone who used the zombies run game to keep running interesting. He dropped about 60 lbs that way. If this style does not work maybe there is something else similar. I find keeping it fun will result in longer more frequent exercise. 

Lifting can help, you will not necessarily bulk up like a body builder from a basic regimen. I like the exrx.net site, it is filled with good info.

Plyometric exercises are great and should be worked in.

Get in the habit of reading labels on food, you will be surprised at what they put in processed food.

Try and get veggies in. Some raw food recipes are great. Using a spiralizer with zucchini makes for great quick spaghetti. 

Watch where fats come from, some are good like coconut oil or olive oil compared to anything that is hydrogenated.

I like the whole egg, I blend them with milk.


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## MikeyLawless (Jul 4, 2013)

Basically, for a normal person with a busy life that makes it hard to maintain strict regimes like some of these...be active all day (got a minute? Knock out 20 pushups) itll keep your metabolism up throughout the day which will help. Avoid snacking. Eat healthier and make sure you have a calorie deficit like already stated. Also make sure to throw in a cheat day once a week or so...it'll keep you from just binge eating and possibly screwing your battle rhythm up...


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## Seanthesheep (Jul 7, 2013)

Im not sure at if this is proper in any sense but here what I do and its been giving my good results so far.

-10 minute run/1mile
- 3 sets of 2 different weights
- 4 minute/ halfmile run
- 3 sets of 2 different weights
- 4 minute/halfmile run
- 3 sets of 2 different weights.

thats been working pretty well for me so far, dont have actually stats to back it but Ive been slimming out and people have been noticing. On top of that IVe been cutting carbs as much as possible, switching to more natural sugars (ie fruits) and consuming more protein when possible. Ive been cutting down on the sugar in my coffee, trying to get as close to black as possible while still enjoying it. And Ive also been supplementing coffees throughout the day for oranges. Where before Id have 3-4 minimum a day, now Im down to 2 and I am about to switch to one in the morning only. The oranges are good for that same kind of energy boost I find but with more natural sugars it should help you slim out easier. 

Reading through this thread though, I think I will add some HIIT training on days where I dont do weights, to help with better cardio and to boost metabolism

Also I just want to note, the weight training Ive been doing has been more for muscle definition too (lower weight and more reps) so while I have been trying to slim out, I havent been completely trying to cut


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## Bevo (Jul 10, 2013)

Sean, you are doing a form of HIIT if your doing your workout non stop and at a good pace. If possible add one routine from the programs kicking around just to try something new and to work your muscles differently. 

I did a workout with my sister in law and her trainer, we were lifting tires, sledge hammer, rope thingy all sorts of stuff..I was sore for a week!
What I got from it was that the training is very fast paced, heart rate is in the upper limit and the exercises are varied to cover the entire body yet based on speed and real movements.
Example, we had to carry a 50lb round wood log that was hard to pick up and totally unbalanced, if it was a bar with 50lb it would be easy, this was hard because it was slippery and long.

If you have some room at your house set up a course in your back yard using random stuff and just have fun with it!


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 15, 2013)

Bevo said:


> That cardio comment is....... mom said be nice....wrong.
> 
> Cardio is super important even more so than pure weight training ( weights build cardio removes ).
> Cardio before or after really depends on what type of training you do and where in your cycle it is. If your doing max lifts or reps you need every last ounce of energy, if your doing a high rep low weight cardio type lift routine then no problem.
> ...




I don't know why you're telling anyone they're wrong when you've got it backwards on almost every point you were trying to make. There is no scientific reasoning/proof behind your statements- only Men's Fitness type broscience. Cardio before lifting is never a wise choice. *Never. There is no reason to do it beforehand. There is no reason to do it beforehand. 
Your 'weight loss math' is just wrong. I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but it doesn't work out that way. You can't just "burn 1,000 calories" a day and expect to lose 1 lb a day/30lbs. a month. Your body will acclimate to solid state cardio and will burn less and less energy each time. Same thing happens when weightlifting. And let's also not overlook the most obvious fact which is that energy expenditure is not the same across the board for everyone. Study after study has shown that weightlifting burns far more fat long after working out than cardio (any variety) does. 

There is little to no truth to the 'more calories out than in=weight loss' and vice versa line of thinking- at least not in the way most people think. Don't take my word for it- you can read this article about Cory Gregory consuming 6,400 cal in a day for weight LOSS. Macro nutrient is so much more important than nickel&diming/calorie-counting: Bodybuilding.com - Eat To Burn: Fat And Calorie Loading To Torch Body Fat


Cardio is not the best option for fat-loss. If you want to lose weight, sure do cardio, if you want to lose FAT weightlifting is a better alternative. 

When Holly and I were prepping for our contests we did no more than 30min. of cardio a week. This is what we ended up looking like:














I'm not trying to use this as an excuse to post pictures, especially since looking back at it now I don't think it's that impressive- I just want to illustrate that it's possible to look this way/have visible abs/be lean without much/any cardio. We're both prepping for our next (my first) contest in September. Won't even start doing cardio til 5-6 weeks out. We'll definitely do more cardio this time around since I'll have to be (and will be) a lot leaner, but it's ALL going to come down to diet. Diet is everything. We're 9 weeks out and probably going to look our best we ever have around at least 7 weeks out and it's only going to get better from there. Of course cardio is going to burn fat, but your logic and reasoning behind it is wrong. Anybody who is overweight and out of shape is going to lose weight by making some very simple changes. That's how some people lose tons of weight just by giving up soda or eating at Subway..but that's also because they had A LOT of weight to lose to begin with. Once you hit a certain point those just aren't going to be viable options. In the end, it always comes down to diet.


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## kchay (Jul 15, 2013)

May I suggest swimming as a good alternative to cardio (if you can do it, or have access to it). It's a lot more intensive, and won't stress joints. Plus, by the sounds of it, it may give you a break off your feet.

Also, it just seems like you want to get rid of some of the flab. Sooo. I'd suggest using smaller plates/bowls. Sometimes it works. The idea is that you think that you're actually giving yourself a "full plate", which is true, but it's less than what you'd usually have with a bigger plate.

I say this because the basis of fat loss is really energy intake< energy expenditure.

Just my 2 cents. Can't guarantee that it'll work for you, but it did for me.


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## TRENCHLORD (Jul 15, 2013)

kchay said:


> May I suggest swimming as a good alternative to cardio (if you can do it, or have access to it). It's a lot more intensive, and won't stress joints. Plus, by the sounds of it, it may give you a break off your feet.
> 
> Also, it just seems like you want to get rid of some of the flab. Sooo. I'd suggest using smaller plates/bowls. Sometimes it works. The idea is that you think that you're actually giving yourself a "full plate", which is true, but it's less than what you'd usually have with a bigger plate.
> 
> ...


 
Swimming makes a great addition to a weightlifting regiment as well.
It gives you a little bit of mild cardio and works some spots you don't quite get with anything else, all with very little joint stress.

If trying to slim down it's all about diet and metabolic/anabolic stimulation. (which is all about macros)
Building muscle mass will increase your resting metabolic rate at the very least, and doing a limited amount of big lifts (bench, deadlift, squats, leg-press ect.) might even inspire higher natural anabolic hormone levels. (surely it's better than sitting on the couch or trying the distance-runner approach).


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## vilk (Jul 25, 2013)

Obviously, the best and most healthy way is to eat properly and exercise.

Now, I'm not the most fit guy ever, but my secret to staying thin is to reduce portions. Realistically, we eat wayyyyy more than our body needs to survive, provided that you're not working some super labor intense job 12 hours a day. For the first month or so, you will feel hungry the whole time, but after that your body has adjusted to your portions and you will feel full after only half a sandwich. In the past few months I've lost like... ok maybe only 5 or 6 kilos, but on my body it's a pretty visible difference, but the only thing I've done is just start eating really small meals (partially due to having a new job and being busy). I have actually lost some muscle though since I don't work out... but working out makes me so hungry that I tend to overeat. but yeah, if you eat healthy AND reduce your portions AND work out, you will lose that belly fat like so fast. But if working out (my opinion the hardest part) isn't something you can manage, a lot can be achieved with reduced portions.


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## troyguitar (Jul 25, 2013)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Building muscle mass will increase your resting metabolic rate at the very least, and doing a limited amount of big lifts (bench, deadlift, squats, leg-press ect.) might even inspire higher natural anabolic hormone levels. (surely it's better than sitting on the couch or trying the distance-runner approach).



Curious. Are you saying that weight lifting is surely better for slimming down than distance running? If so, why are distance runners so much slimmer on average than weight lifters?


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## Infamous Impact (Jul 25, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> If so, why are distance runners so much slimmer on average than weight lifters?


Can you be more specific? By weight lifters do you mean people who lift, or weightlifters? Weightlifters in weight classes are shredded, and that's the majority of people in the sport.


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## troyguitar (Jul 25, 2013)

Infamous Impact said:


> Can you be more specific? By weight lifters do you mean people who lift, or weightlifters? Weightlifters in weight classes are shredded, and that's the majority of people in the sport.



I was thinking regular people who lift, but the pro competitors are also typically huge, not slim at all except for the very bottom weight classes. This guy is not exactly what I would call "slimmed down":


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## Infamous Impact (Jul 25, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> I was thinking regular people who lift, but the pro competitors are also typically huge, not slim at all except for the very bottom weight classes. This guy is not exactly what I would call "slimmed down":


You chose one guy from the unrestricted super heavyweight class from powerlifting. Most weightlifters look like this:


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## Despised_0515 (Jul 25, 2013)

Just remember, whatever you do, DO IT.
It's gonna be a long road but after a while it just becomes habit.
It really bums me out to watch people get discouraged and stop when they reach a plateau.


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## Requiem4agreen (Jul 25, 2013)

Hello everyone, a lot of great information in this thread.

Here's my .02:

Just to mix it up a bit in the cardio area try some cycling: road, mountain, xc, downhill.. whatever tickles your pickle really. It's a great way to keep things interesting while you're dropping the weight. I always found that mixing up my training kept things fresh. Recently (Jan 2013) I started the same journey and I found a nice mix of: diet(most important), treadmill, road cycling, weight training. You'd be surprised, an hour of cycling at 12-15 mph can burn up to 1000 calories and that is ALOT when compared to jogging on a treadmill. I've dropped 50 pounds in 6 months and I'm keeping it off thanks to the cycling.

Good luck man.

Oh, and since this is my first post:

Obligatory: I like guitars


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## troyguitar (Jul 25, 2013)

Infamous Impact said:


> You chose one guy from the unrestricted super heavyweight class from powerlifting.



I took a powerlifter because those were the lifts suggested and his was the only photo on the wikipedia page  All but the lightest weight classes in powerlifting are going to be big dudes unless they're tall.

Not really trying to argue anyway, I just don't understand how powerlifting burns more fat than running 50+ miles a week. If lifting would be more effective at eliminating fat then I would rather do that. Running sucks and takes forever - even at a decent pace you are looking at at least an hour per day to get results.


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## Abbath78 (Jul 25, 2013)

You could always do the Joe Bonamassa diet: eat decent during the day and NO food after 4 PM. You'll be hungry by bedtime but while you sleep your body will feast on your fat reserves. It sure worked for Joe!


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## Infamous Impact (Jul 25, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> I took a powerlifter because those were the lifts suggested and his was the only photo on the wikipedia page  All but the lightest weight classes in powerlifting are going to be big dudes unless they're tall.
> 
> Not really trying to argue anyway, I just don't understand how powerlifting burns more fat than running 50+ miles a week. If lifting would be more effective at eliminating fat then I would rather do that. Running sucks and takes forever - even at a decent pace you are looking at at least an hour per day to get results.


Powerlifters aren't weightlifters. They're two completely separate sports. The majority of powerlifters who fit in a weight class are lean to make the most of their weight (less weight from fat means more muscle mass).

Lifting is more effective.. If you have any amount of muscle mass above the average skinny fat person who sits behind a computer for most of the day. I'm not a fan of running more than I have to, having a lot of muscle mass and a good diet alone works for me.


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## troyguitar (Jul 26, 2013)

Infamous Impact said:


> Powerlifters aren't weightlifters. They're two completely separate sports. The majority of powerlifters who fit in a weight class are lean to make the most of their weight (less weight from fat means more muscle mass).
> 
> Lifting is more effective.. If you have any amount of muscle mass above the average skinny fat person who sits behind a computer for most of the day. I'm not a fan of running more than I have to, having a lot of muscle mass and a good diet alone works for me.





TRENCHLORD said:


> doing a limited amount of big lifts (bench, deadlift, squats, leg-press ect.) might even inspire higher natural anabolic hormone levels. (surely it's better than sitting on the couch or trying the distance-runner approach).



Is that NOT powerlifting? I am confused.

In any case, I'm still wondering how exactly this works. 

You guys are stating that lifting is more effective for slimming down than running. How much more effective? What is your basis for these statements?

Running 40 minutes a day I burn roughly 500 calories per day (5 miles at 8 minutes per mile). Could you give an example of a lifting routine that accomplishes roughly the same thing in less time and can still be done every day?


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## Infamous Impact (Jul 26, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> Is that NOT powerlifting? I am confused.
> 
> In any case, I'm still wondering how exactly this works.
> 
> ...


Increased muscle mass means a faster metabolism, which, unlike running a certain amount of time a day for a few times a week, will burn a lot more calories over time. It's not the lifting itself that will burn a lot of calories. You need to look at it over a long term.


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 26, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> Is that NOT powerlifting? I am confused.
> 
> In any case, I'm still wondering how exactly this works.
> 
> ...




Cardio is anything that conditions the heart. Running/sprinting/biking aren't the only forms of cardio. Lifting by itself is cardio- just a different form. The effects of weightlifting towards fat loss are longer-lasting than that of just running which is why it's more effective. You can easily burn 500 calories in 40 minutes with a variety of different lifting routines, but it's the fat burning after weightlifting that's arguably more important. It's harder to measure but most studies on the subject have shown that your body continues to burn fat 24-36 hours AFTER lifting weights vs. maybe 4-6 hours or something after just doing straight cardio.
Beyond that, the more muscle you have the higher your metabolism is. It has a type of snow-balling effect.

Case in point:



"
*Weight Training and Metabolic Increases For The Period Following ///*




The first reason we are going to give weight training a point in the fat loss wars against cardio training is due to the calorie burn after the workout is completed. 
Studies have demonstrated that after a weight training workout, the metabolism can be boosted for up to 36 hours post-workout, meaning rather than burning say 60 calories an hour while sitting and watching TV, you're burning 70. While you may think, 'Big deal - 10 extra calories', when you multiply this by 36 hours, you can see what a huge difference that makes in your daily calorie expenditure over that day and a half. 
When you figure out that on a monthly rate, it becomes even clearer how regular participation in a weight lifting session will really increase your calorie burning and thus fat burning capacity. 
With cardio training, you might get an extra 40-80 calories burned after a moderate paced session, and this will depend upon the exact intensity and duration of the workout. 
In order to generate a high amount of post-calorie burn from aerobics, you'd have to be doing it for a very long duration of time, and typically individuals who are capable of doing such a thing, don't need to be concerned with fat loss in the first place. 
Now, sprinting is a slightly different story and will create effects with your metabolic rate closer to that of weight lifting, so that's something to consider as well. With this, you must be sprinting hard in order for benefits to be seen though, which is something some people will struggle with. 
*Weight Training And Long-Term Metabolic Increases ///*

The second factor to consider in the fat loss wars is long-term metabolic increases. While it's great to be burning more calories for 36 hours after the workout, that's not going to help you two weeks from now unless you are consistent with your workout program (which you should be anyway, but that's not the point we're trying to make here). 
What weight training will enable you to do is build up a larger degree of lean muscle mass, which then basically serves as your calorie burning powerhouse in the body. 
When you calculate your basal metabolic rate, which is how many calories you would burn if you lied in bed all day and did absolutely nothing except breath, one of the factors that goes into this is your total body weight. The most accurate equations will also take into account lean body mass, which represents your muscles, bones, and organs. 



Therefore, the more muscle you have on your body, the higher this rate will be and the better the calorie burning results you will obtain 24/7. 
Since muscle tissue is fairly long-term (as long as there is some stimulus on the muscle and you are consuming enough protein it won't be lost), this proves to be an effective long-run strategy for losing body fat. 
This is the primary reason males typically can eat more than females without gaining weight - they have more lean muscle mass on their body, thus they are burning more calories around the clock. 
To add to this point, it's critical that you are realistic with how much muscle mass you can build in a given period of time. Naturally, males will be able to generate between 1-2 pounds of pure muscle mass in a given month and females will get about half that, around 1/2 -1 pound total. Over time though, with consistent efforts this will dramatically make you much more resistant to weight gain as you grow older, making it extremely beneficial. 
*Weight Training And Total Body Reshaping ///*

Moving on, another big benefit that weight training has over cardio training is that it will completely allow you to reshape your body. Cardio training generally will help you lose weight, however typically this weight loss is going to be a bit of a combination between fat and muscle; therefore what you're left with is a smaller version of your current self. 
When you are performing resistance training instead while following a hypocalorie diet, then you stand a better chance of losing strictly body fat, while helping to enhance the natural curves of your body. 
This lends for a much more attractive physique, which will give you a much better overall transformation than if you just lost weight doing cardio. If you've ever noticed someone who has lost a considerable amount of weight but still looks somewhat 'soft', that's usually why. They have lost some fat, but at the same rate, their muscles aren't overly toned, hence they don't give off the same type of appearance. 
One thing that should be mentioned at this point is that many women will shy away from lifting weights, particularly going heavier with them (more than 5-10 pounds) simply because they believe that doing so causes them to develop rippling muscles that give off too masculine of a look. 
This is an unfortunate misperception because the fact of the matter is that females do not have enough testosterone in their body to develop this degree of musculature naturally, plus in order to build that type of muscle even with testosterone present, a great deal of food must be provided (which is another thing that most women are not doing). 
What lifting heavy weights will do though is raise their metabolic rate, promote greater fat burning, and help give them more definition when they do lose the body fat off. As you can see, what most women fear is actually what they should be doing. So, make sure you're not making that mistake. 
*Weight Training And Hormonal Environment ///*

Another difference between weight training and cardio training is the type of hormonal environment they promote. Weight training tends to put the body in an anabolic state and encourages muscle mass gain (if eating a higher calorie diet, which won't be the case when you're aiming for fat loss) or muscle maintenance (which is applicable here). 
Cardio training, on the other hand, promotes higher levels of cortisol release, and this is the primary hormone that does encourage lean muscle mass loss, as well as fat accumulation around the abdominal region. 
Because of this difference in hormone levels, that's another big reason why you should tend to sway yourself more towards weight training as a means to lose body fat compared with cardio. 
*Cardio And Calorie Burn ///*

One issue you're more than likely thinking about is the different calorie burns during the actual workout - that's got to count for something, right? 
That is correct. If you do a longer cardio session, you could burn somewhere in the neighbourhood of 500-800 calories, depending on the exact length and intensity level. That is a fairly decent number and will definitely help with your fat loss goals. 
Since you must burn off 3500 calories in order to lose one pound of body fat, if you do enough of these cardio sessions, and make sure you're not eating these calories back, weight loss will take place. 
But, keep in mind here again that you are going to have to keep doing those long cardio sessions. Time will likely become a big factor with this one, as well as boredom could start to play a role over time as well. 
While the weight training session may not burn as many calories minute per minute during the actual workout (although that too can depend on how intense the weight lifting is), the overall calorie burning benefits you receive from it typically outweigh that of cardio. 
*Cardio and Health Benefits ///*

Finally, one point does have to go to cardio for health benefits. Obviously strength training will have health benefits as well, but cardio training will have a bigger influence on cardiovascular health. 
So, while you likely shouldn't entirely eliminate cardio from your fat loss training program, you should be putting forth good effort towards weight training as well. Overlooking this form of exercise while playing the fat loss game is a big mistake that's going to hurt your progress. 
*Conclusion*

It's time to break free from the thinking that cardio equates to fat loss and weight training equates to building muscle and weight gain. It's simply not as clear cut as that and often the biggest difference between fat loss and muscle building is more related to diet than anything."


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## troyguitar (Jul 26, 2013)

I read the same article, they didn't actually run any numbers. The only one I found with any actual numbers was from this guy:

Why HIIT Is NOT Better For Fat Loss | StrongLifts StrongLifts

He's comparing to intervals which is not quite the same but people use the same arguments for it as they do for weight training vs cardio. The numbers make intervals and weights look better PER workout, but worse overall because you can't do them every day.

I've found several articles claiming both ways, that's why I am curious what makes you guys so sure of your position. Perhaps it just depends on how much time you are willing to spend on exercise? i.e. if you have only 1-2 hours per week to spend, it is more effective to lift weights but if you have 4-5 hours per week it is more effective to run


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## infernalservice (Jul 26, 2013)

I do a lot of weight training, and can say with confidence that it is more effective at weight loss than cardio. I used to do a ton of long distance running, then I moved on to weight training with cardio (2-3 mile runs) every other day. Now all I do is high intensity weight lifting and maybe a 10-15 minute cardio workout before weight training. The cardio is all varying intensity running either on a treadmill or outside if weather permits. Muscle burns more calories at rest, plus you get a longer rise in metabolic rate post weight training versus cardio. It's a slower burn but over a longer period of time. You can get the most out of slimming down just by eating better too. Eat real whole foods, ditch high calorie beverages (all I drink is a ton of water, unsweetened green tea, and some black coffee every morning.) concentrate on lean proteins and veggies that will keep you full. Eat good fats like olive oil and avocados. I do intermittent fasting now, but when I used to do bulk and cut phases, I could cut up to 5 pounds a week by upping workout intensity and eating really clean.

Go here:
Leangains.com


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## Uncreative123 (Jul 26, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> I read the same article, they didn't actually run any numbers. The only one I found with any actual numbers was from this guy:
> 
> Why HIIT Is NOT Better For Fat Loss | StrongLifts StrongLifts
> 
> ...




That entire article only discussed *calories* being burned- it said absolutely nothing about fat-loss. The whole concept of HIIT is based around the fact that it's more successful for burning fat. You can run on a treadmill all day everyday burning through calories and lose *weight* , but I'd rather burn fat and not needlessly waste energy and time.

Bottom line: Try both for yourself and compare the results. Give them both enough time however. HIIT works for me and plenty of others. If you want to look like a physique or BB'ing competitor look at what they do for cardio; If you want to look like a marathon runner then look at what they do for cardio and go from there.


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## sage (Jul 26, 2013)

Cardio and weightlifting. Either one works. Paired with a good nutrition plan, you'll lose weight either way. On two separate occasions, I started off at 340 lbs (seems to be my resting weight. If I'm not paying attention, that's where I end up. Can't seem to get any heavier and it's a bitch to turn the train around and head in the other direction). One time, I lifted 3-4 days a week. In 4 months, I was at 270 and looking and feeling good. Couldn't run a block without getting winded, but had lost 70lbs. Fell off the wagon and ended up at 340 again. Decided to train for triathlons. Ran, biked and swam 5 days a week. 4 months later, boom, 270 again. It was exhausting, far more so than the weight training ever was, but I had endurance like crazy. Ran a half-marathon, did a few olympic distance tris, and enjoyed the training. Fell off the wagon and went back up to 340. Now I'm mixing it up a bit. Some weights, some cardio, and I'm down 20 lbs this month. 

I think the moral of the story is this: find something that you like and do it. The best exercise for you is the one you enjoy doing enough that you'll actually do it sometimes.


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## TRENCHLORD (Jul 26, 2013)

5 hrs of running a week will make it damned hard to not lose muscle as well as fat, and reducing muscle mass will mean you have to eat less and less, and the moment you stop running several hours a week here comes the bodyfat% up again.

I mis-spoke saying lifting is better, it's just more practical.

Powerlifting is the main lifts, but it's not the same as using the weights as tools for mass building (bodybuilding).
They are two completely different mentalities as well as vastly different workouts.

The convenient thing for anyone wanting to drop fat is that bodybuilding requires some volume which also can serve as mild cardio if it's done with intensity.

On the smaller lifts that aren't so neurologically taxing try only resting a couple minutes between sets or doing drop-sets/super-sets to help with the calorie consumption.

A little jogging goes a long way when you are building mass at the same time.
Sprint intervals can actually help the building and the fat reduction when used sparingly (a very slight incline really sets them off).

Throw a brisk 30-45min. walk (almost everyday) on top of lifting three/four times a week and some occasional sprint/brisk-run intervals and you'll be set.


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## Mordacain (Jul 26, 2013)

TRENCHLORD said:


> 5 hrs of running a week will make it damned hard to not lose muscle as well as fat, and reducing muscle mass will mean you have to eat less and less, and the moment you stop running several hours a week here comes the bodyfat% up again.
> 
> I mis-spoke saying lifting is better, it's just more practical.
> 
> ...



It's not so bad to lose muscle as well as fat when one is obese. Depending on the person's level of inactivity before they start their workout regimen it's not really true either.

It's certainly true that a person with lots of muscle mass will lose muscle as well as fat when running a lot, but you will certainly build muscle regardless if you are inactive and obese when you start. There's a reason that on the Biggest Loser, they always start people on cardio and then introduce strength training; they need to get their VO2 max to point where they can support building muscle.

I'd disagree lifting is more efficient if one is just trying to slim down to a healthy manageable weight and not develop bulk muscle. You want to use not much more than body weight and keep the strength training to things like dips, squats, push-ups, crunches and light free weights. Those strength-training exercises need to be balanced with cardio to keep the heart rate and VO2max high for the optimal fat burn.

Granted, maybe I missed a change in the OP's desire, but originally I thought he was just shooting for a healthy, manageable weight and not really going for being all shredded...


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## bearmik (Aug 9, 2013)

Guys, just be careful putting info. If a single method helped you to loss weight, doesn't mean this will work for everyone. About the info I wrote here, I have read science journals and much gym guys didn't even know how to take care of themselves after the exercises. 

And just one more thing: jogging can be dangerous to your marrowbones if you run in asphalt much time.


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## straightshreddd (Aug 9, 2013)

A bunch of guys have good tips, but the simplest way to put it is:

1. 5 small, fist-sized meals a day that include chicken and vegetables or equivalent. Every three hours. You will have to endure some hunger pangs. If it's too much to handle, have a small amount of fruit, cashews or equivalent. Drink lots of water

2. Workouts should consist of rigorous, low rest period routines. You really only need about three days a week of tough, 1-2 hour sessions involving strength/conditioning/cardio exercises. On your free time, try getting involved in some sports or martial arts. *Try an everyday 20 min stretching routine. Good for the body

3. Ample rest

(Calisthenics are heavily preferred over straight up lifting. I've seen buff guys get their asses handed to them by guys with excellent cardio and body control. Lifting to only buff up will make your movements stiff and awkward-looking and limit your body's range of motion. Also, if you only focus on lifting and your cardio is shit, you will be huge for no reason but to "appear more attractive" which is pretty wack. 

Train and work out to become healthier, stronger, and more nimble. The aesthetics and body you want will follow.)


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## straightshreddd (Aug 9, 2013)

bearmik said:


> And just one more thing: jogging can be dangerous to your marrowbones if you run in asphalt much time.



Agreed, jogging outside through woods or on varied terrain is heavily preferred. But, if you have the means to buy one or if your local gym has one, use a versaclimber.

I also like hitting up a jump rope session.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 9, 2013)

straightshreddd said:


> A bunch of guys have good tips, but the simplest way to put it is:
> 
> 1. 5 small, fist-sized meals a day that include chicken and vegetables or equivalent. Every three hours. You will have to endure some hunger pangs. If it's too much to handle, have a small amount of fruit, cashews or equivalent. Drink lots of water
> 
> ...




All of that is ludicrous. Fist-sized meals? Is that an exact measurement? LOL. If you're hungry eat fruit or nuts- even though they have two totally different effects on hunger and insulin. "Only" need 3 days a week of lifting- for what?
And the coup de grace- lifting only to 'buff up' (whatever that is) will make your movements stiff, awkward, and limit range of motion. And what exactly are you basing that off of? What *you think* would happen? 

Can't get much bigger than Kai Greene- and I sure as hell couldn't do this:








Yep, his range of motion looks really limited. So many people lift to become more attractive. Losing fat and aesthetics go hand in hand. It's not like there are a lot of 20 year olds out there genuinely concerned about their health- don't be fooled, it's the aesthetics of it. And boy is it worth it...


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## straightshreddd (Aug 9, 2013)

Yeah, good job vaguely generalizing and falsing summarizing what I said, pal.  Why would fist-sized be an exact measure, dude? We're all of different shapes and sizes. It's an approximate amount for limiting intake. OP wants to lose weight.

Also, the guys you're referring to don't lift to only buff up. They train a variety of things. I'm referring to the guys whose routines consist of lifting only. See 'em all the time. They're bulky, but slow and sluggish. I've manhandled guys like that in jiu jitsu. They start off with a huge surge of strength, I weather the short storm, allow them to tire out, work technique, and go for the sub. Or I just shoot the quick double, get 'em on their backs, and submit them in moments. I've had the toughest rolls of my life with guys my size and smaller.

And I didn't say "only lift 3 days a week". Please work on your reading comprehension before responding like an ass, man. Lifting is a part of strength and conditioning, but should not be the only thing a person does when training.

And everyone should care about their health regardless of age, dude. If you train properly, you can achieve a great looking body without shooting for the "body builder image". 


These guys know all about cutting weight and training to be strong, fast, durable, and healthy. Yes, they lift. But, it damn sure ain't all they do.






















OP: Follow similar training regiments that a wrestler(collegiate not WWE ), fighter, or gymnast would and you'll see great results.


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## flint757 (Aug 9, 2013)

It _can_ affect movement (even if only slightly). If you have huge biceps you're not going to be able to touch your shoulder with the hand on the same side. It may or may not be an issue, but if your muscles are bigger then moving them certain ways may be slightly limited. 

If your muscles are bigger then they are occupying more space. That being said, with a lot of stretching movement isn't hampered much at all.


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## straightshreddd (Aug 9, 2013)

Also, muscles need lots of oxygen to perform well, hence big, bulky fighters commonly associated with lesser cardio. And yes, stretching will improve flexibility, thus lessening the limitation of movement. 

Nothing against weight training, I just think you can achieve an excellent physique AND be able to perform well behind it if you apply different training technique along with lifting.


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## straightshreddd (Aug 9, 2013)

I knew the neg rep was coming.


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## troyguitar (Aug 10, 2013)

This section is dominated by dudes who think the only way to be in shape and good looking is to be 200+ lbs with piles of muscle, except for Tiger who doesn't seem to post anymore who was like 140 lbs and a badass. Expect that to be the advice given to any question:

Eat and lift dude, BULK!


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## Murmel (Aug 10, 2013)

I miss Tiger. Super tiny, but also super badass and strong as hell.


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## Mordacain (Aug 10, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> This section is dominated by dudes who think the only way to be in shape and good looking is to be 200+ lbs with piles of muscle, except for Tiger who doesn't seem to post anymore who was like 140 lbs and a badass. Expect that to be the advice given to any question:
> 
> Eat and lift dude, BULK!



Yea, I keep checking in with this thread and seeing all of the lifting advice and have to keep going back to OP's original post and just 

I thought OP just wanted to slim down? Personally, I have to work harder to not bulk up when I work out as it's just what my muscles tend to do so I have to push more cardio in relation to my strength training. For me (and others that have problems with their lower lumbar vertebrae & associated discs) less weight is best to keep from having surgery in future.


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## texshred777 (Aug 10, 2013)

Yeah, lifting weights isn't only for bulking though. It's also a good way to maintain lean tissue while on a cut.

Cardio is great for heart health, and endurance. It also helps create a bigger caloric deficit. But it's not the only training that is effective for cutting body fat. I've gone through cutting phases and never did any non resistance cardio, just lifting and eating at specific macro levels. 

At the end of the day there seems to be two schools of thought at conflict; one is focusing almost entirely on body recomposition(decrease fat, increase lean tissue)-not necessarily overall health and athletic ability. Then there's a more athletic training (increase strength, agility, endurance, etc). Athletic training will certainly improve body composition, just as the body building mindset will yield increases in athletic ability. 

In the end, it just depends on what the OP wants to prioritize. At his current size, he has a while to go before he's bulky. Even if he wanted to be built like Tiger he'll need to increase his muscle mass some for similar proportions. 

Tiger's not a big dude, but he's hard as shit.


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