# Emperion mail?



## tekkadon d

has anyone recieved the email from emperion yet?


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## Fred the Shred

Other than the "we now carry X and Y brands" one, I haven't received any updates regarding the freebies or delayed shipment information.


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## tekkadon d

true
i just wanna know what the freebie is lol


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## Fred the Shred

Quite honestly, I'm far from being in a hurry. It's not like I'm lacking guitars, and the Emperion isn't going to replace my GKG's. It's something I am truly curious about and I love the Horizon inspired contours, hence the order.

As for the freebies, I wouldn't say no to a couple free pickups...


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## tekkadon d

haha yeah although im dying for a 7 im not in a hurry either since i keep spending my money and having to save again lol
so yeah the extra time is nice
also on a side note 7's arent all to common in the music shops here and i totally told the shop keeper bout it and got a "thats brutal'' from him
haha


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## sublevel

No reply yet


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## 13point9

Nothing yet.... don't mind though, but can't wait to get it!!!


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## irolis

No reply yet,hate it when they promise to mail some more info and fail at it :[


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## Andromalia

Nothing either so far.


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## Shallow faith

Received a mail about a week ago.
My guitar will be in the March batch.

When it gets here I'll let you know.

Be patient and take care.

Grtz,

Nico.


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## Edika

Shallow faith said:


> Received a mail about a week ago.
> My guitar will be in the March batch.
> 
> When it gets here I'll let you know.
> 
> Be patient and take care.
> 
> Grtz,
> 
> Nico.



Did you receive your guitar or had any other reply? Some photos would be nice for us still waiting


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## Shallow faith

Edika said:


> Did you receive your guitar or had any other reply? Some photos would be nice for us still waiting



I got an email from Michele with the status.
It turned out the first batch, end of march, was the batch with custom orders.
As mine wasen't a custom it'll be with the end-of-april batch.

Because he told me before my guitar would be ready he wanted to make up for that by offering me a custom one they made for a guy whom they were unable to reach anymore an refunded his deposit.
This however was a black scorpius with string through and I ordered a white one with a floyd so I declined.
Very considered of him though to make the offer.

So for me, it's taking a little longer than expected but I don't mind.
It's still way faster than it took my custom to be built, which was 18 months. The Scorpius will be my backup guitar so I'm not in desperate need for it.

I will post pics of course as soon as I get it.

Take care.

Cheers,

Nico.


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## Edika

Thanks man! It's good to know there is contact from the Emperion people. I have other guitars to keep me occupied but the suspense of waiting for the damn email is killing. Glad there are more cool headed people than me and I hope i don't seem whiny but...

The GAS, the GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSS!!!!


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## capoeiraesp

I just received this and I gotta say I like how they operate. 
Hi Mathieu,

almost all 6 string guitars are ready, just the 7s are a bit late because the bridge supplier had to repair their production line and we're waiting, should be something that will be resolved in just a matter of days,

we will be giving some exact dates probably the next week but as i want to be 100% sure i can tell you that you can count on May since we will be very picky with guitars for this production so nothing will come out without a perfect setup and quality control, it will need a bit more time but we do not want unsatisfied customers !

Best regards
Michele / Emperionguitars.com


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## 13point9

the amount of time they have delayed the guitars due to QC, these things better be fucking amazing


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## Edika

I received the following mail as well:

Hi Georgios,


All 6 string are almost ready, just the 7s are a bit late (guitars are ready but we're waiting for the fixed bridges, the hardware supplier had a production stop due to maintenance), i can't give exact dates at the moment but i should be able to say something more precise at the end of the next week,

also customs are coming in this week and we will be posting pictures and updates asap

we will be contacting everybody well in advance, so no bad surprises, sorry for all this delays but we're working at full speed to do the best that we can without compromising quality, no guitar will leave without being deeply controlled and with a perfect setup

Best regards
Michele / Emperionguitars.com


So things are progressing!!


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## Snytbaggen

Yeah, I also got the mail. Hope we'll see some pictures soon


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## eks_500

I got mine too, I think they are doing a good work, I prefer a perfect setup in a good guitar to have it earlier. I want to see these pictures


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## Andromalia

Yeah, no gripe with waiting, as long as we get info it's ok. they should update their web site though, easier to reach every customer that way.


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## Edika

I found this while searching for Emperion. 

Craft - ARAM MUSIC MFG.,CORPORATION
Electric Guitar

Anyone seen this before? If yes has anyone contacted Michele about this? Kind of strange...


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## 13point9

I have emailed them now to find out...


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## MaxOfMetal

Edika said:


> I found this while searching for Emperion.
> 
> Craft - ARAM MUSIC MFG.,CORPORATION
> Electric Guitar
> 
> Anyone seen this before? If yes has anyone contacted Michele about this? Kind of strange...



That's probably the OEM company actually making the guitars. 

Everyone knows Emperion isn't actually building anything, and just ordering them overseas right?


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## 13point9

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's probably the OEM company actually making the guitars.
> 
> Everyone knows Emperion isn't actually building anything, and just ordering them overseas right?



well i do lol didn't think it was china though


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## MaxOfMetal

13point9 said:


> well i do lol didn't think it was china though



Actually what's weird is Aram's main site says their facilities are in China, but on that second link, which shows what appears to be an Emperion, it says the "origin" is Korea. 

They appear to have facilities in both countries, which isn't anything out of the ordinary. At it's height Cort had facilities in 6 countries. 

Though, for the price, you really didn't consider China as a possible OEM source?


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## 13point9

MaxOfMetal said:


> Actually what's weird is Aram's main site says their facilities are in China, but on that second link, which shows what appears to be an Emperion, it says the "origin" is Korea.
> 
> They appear to have facilities in both countries, which isn't anything out of the ordinary. At it's height Cort had facilities in 6 countries.
> 
> Though, for the price, you really didn't consider China as a possible OEM source?



Thought Korea or Indo as main sources, I consider China to be the maker of sub $700 guitars, but i guess the instrument is only as good as the QC in the end...


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## MaxOfMetal

13point9 said:


> Thought Korea or Indo as main sources, I consider China to be the maker of sub $700 guitars, but i guess the instrument is only as good as the QC in the end...



China has been putting out some fairly nice stuff in the past few years. A good example would be the Ibanez Artcore and ART series guitars.

Though, you're right about QC. That's the true determinate of a guitar's quality.


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## TraitorsEyes

they just sent out an email with updated pics from the factory and they also talk about whole shipping issue. I gotta say they're looking pretty good, though we can't know for sure till someone actually plays one.


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## capoeiraesp

I can see my white scorpius 7!


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## Prydogga

Why is it strung up with the pickups and bridge not in their cavities properly?


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## irolis

Nice to see some pictures!

Still wondering why I haven't had a single mail from them so far,


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## Raphy00

wow those pics have given me a lot more confidence 

and heres the full email for anyone who didnt get it.



> Hi there,
> 
> we've some good news and some bad ones,
> 
> here you can find some pics made a while ago of the guitars near to
> completion:
> 
> www.emperionguitars.com/kyoto/PICA4.tmp.jpg
> www.emperionguitars.com/kyoto/PICA5.tmp.jpg
> www.emperionguitars.com/kyoto/PICA6.jpg
> www.emperionguitars.com/kyoto/PICA7.tmp.jpg
> 
> the hardware supplier resolved its maintenace problems for the seven
> string guitars and they said us the missing hardware is coming next
> week, so on this side everything finally is proceeding smoothly.
> 
> Here comes the "bad" news:
> 
> in a really timely manner a volcano in Iceland decided to erupt a big
> cloud of ashes which is causing the biggest flight disruption in
> Europe since 2001, the result is that all the international flights in
> Europe are halted until further notice.
> 
> Iceland's volcanic ash halts flights across Europe - Yahoo! News
> 
> How this affects the availability of the guitar ?
> 
> Guess what ? The guitars were supposed to depart next week with air
> cargo from our production line in Japan, this event caused an halt to
> all flights and the prices of air cargo shippings are going up crazy,
> almost ten times higher.
> 
> We're working on a solution to reduce this additional delay that will
> occur, at the moment we're waiting news from our shipping agency for
> rail transportation which is less than a half slow compared to sea
> shipping.
> 
> 
> We will keep you guys updated
> 
> Best regards
> 
> Emperion guitars


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## Snytbaggen

capoeiraesp said:


> I can see my white scorpius 7!



I think I see mine too! GAS just skyrocketed


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## Andromalia

13point9 said:


> Thought Korea or Indo as main sources, I consider China to be the maker of sub $700 guitars, but i guess the instrument is only as good as the QC in the end...



Well, the basic Scorpius 7FR is 400ish&#8364;.

I was understanding, though, that the preorder prices were special prices for launching a production, not that we were just doing a china limited run. the emperion info we were given talked about Japan and Italy, not China. :/
That said, we will see, I guess their rep and business will get pretty bad if they foul up on QC. A company can't really afford to miss its start.

The volcano stuff is no fake either, I have a good chunk of colleagues not coming back to irelandf on time because fo canceled flights.
Checked my email and got it, these pics are nice, all those reversed headstocks together. &#9829;


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## capoeiraesp

Prydogga said:


> Why is it strung up with the pickups and bridge not in their cavities properly?



I'm guessing they've sorted the hardware for each guitar but haven't installed them and are using the strings to hold it all in place. 
Anyone figure otherwise?


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## Edika

I see my all white Norax 7 in these pictures hehehe!! And as stated before it is true about the Volcano. In France all flights have been suspended for 3 days and with the train strike it's chaos. But nice to see progress. I will agree that I don't like the China factory thing but I am guessing they said Japan to attract clients, since Japan is considered nowadays as a good guitar manufacturing country. But I am surprised they would pull such a stunt if you consider that most people have internet and somebody would stumble upon that. Anyway if the wood quality is as they advertise with the actual woods they claim to use and the QC is good (as mentioned by other people) then I have no problem.


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## Andromalia

capoeiraesp said:


> I'm guessing they've sorted the hardware for each guitar but haven't installed them and are using the strings to hold it all in place.
> Anyone figure otherwise?



At that point it's only the basic hardware and pickups, I think the special order pickups will be put in at the italian shop. Using strings to hold floyds in place doesn't seem like a good idea and a bit on the expensive side as opposed, to, say, tape, though. There is likely another reason.



> In France all flights have been suspended for 3 days and with the train strike it's chaos.


Bon courage avec la SNCF. ^^


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## Edika

Merci beaucoup!


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## Andromalia

Seeing the pics, I notice only the white scorpius have a binding ?

Website says: 

"transparent (see-thru) black, 3-ply white binding on body, neck and headstock (back of body, neck and headstock transparent black)"

As a basic model. The black ones don't seem to have any on the body but ther's one with neck binding behind.


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## eks_500

Yes, I noticed about the bindings on the black ones too, and the body shape.... isn´t too "Horizon" not? It´s more like a Schecter... 

In pictures I can´t see clearly, but I hope the black ones would be "transparent black", because if they are "glossy black".....


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## Hollowway

Is it just me or do those pup routes look huge? Maybe they're routed for different pups than are in there?


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## Valserp

I have actually exchanged a couple of e-mails with Aram a few months ago and this is what I managed to dig out of my e-mail archives:



JIN-YULAN/Manager said:


> Aram Music-Korea has produced good Musical instruments over 20 years
> in Korea, and since 6 years established factory in Tianjin, China,
> and produced instruments with Korean skills and minds, and exported to
> many foreign countries.
> We are using the hardwares directly from Korea and best skilled Korean engineers.
> This is the different point than other Chinese company here.


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## earworm

Hollowway said:


> Is it just me or do those pup routes look huge? Maybe they're routed for different pups than are in there?



I noticed that to, it kind of worries me some. I hope there not the routes intended for pickup covers but now being used for direct mounting. I dont know anymore.


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## Rotatous

^Did anyone order one with direct mount pickups? Cause that's what I just did...

edit: I'm actually not worried. I hope the routes aren't sloppy, but if they are, I can always just buy some rings.


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## earworm

At first they were made with mounting rings. I ordered mine and asked if i could get direct mounted. I was told then that they were going to direct mount all pickups.


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## Rotatous

^Well they better be good then.


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## Snytbaggen

Okay guys, things are starting to happen now! I just got a mail that said I have 3 weeks to pay the final payment, together with this update:



> Production situation:
> 
> Guitar are not yet departed from our production line in Japan but should be a matter of days (hardware for the 7 string guitars has been shipped by the supplier by not yet delivered), after that we will choose for the faster and most reliable shipping method to our headquarters prior to shipping to customer, we will keep everyone updated


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## behemoth91

this is really now making me want to get a norax-II-st with seymour duncan passives. i just hope shipping isnt alot


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## 13point9

I just got my mail asking for the 2nd payment but it is 80 EUR more than what was agreed >.<


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## Snytbaggen

13point9 said:


> I just got my mail asking for the 2nd payment but it is 80 EUR more than what was agreed >.<



Where do you live? If you're in Europe you'll have to pay 20% VAT. For example, I have to pay 420 instead of 350 for my Scorpius.

EDIT: Nevermind, saw you live in London xD Then I guess VAT is the thief. IIRC it would be added on the 2nd payment.

EDIT 2:


13point9 said:


> ahh its fine the tax was included before i made the deposit, Michele just made an error its corrected now and I have sent the money should be here within a month


Ah, I see. i guess all's in order then 

And with that I'm off to make my payment. I'll probably live on ramen for the next month, but I hope it'll be worth it


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## 13point9

Snytbaggen said:


> Where do you live? If you're in Europe you'll have to pay 20% VAT. For example, I have to pay 420 instead of 350 for my Scorpius.



ahh its fine the tax was included before i made the deposit, Michele just made an error its corrected now and I have sent the money should be here within a month


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## Guit_02

Quote Emperion HP:
PLEASE NOTE : all of those prices do not include 20% Italian VAT that must be payed ONLY by customers of the European Union, all other customers are exempted to pay the VAT amount. If applicable 20% VAT will be applied to final payment before shipping.


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## 13point9

Guit_02 said:


> Quote Emperion HP:
> PLEASE NOTE : all of those prices do not include 20% Italian VAT that must be payed ONLY by customers of the European Union, all other customers are exempted to pay the VAT amount. If applicable 20% VAT will be applied to final payment before shipping.



will post again as people won't look at my post on the last page  tax was included in the original quote I had, and all has been sorted =)


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## Psionicist

Got the same email today and sent my payment in. I am still curious what kind of freebie we might be getting.


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## 13point9

Psionicist said:


> Got the same email today and sent my payment in. I am still curious what kind of freebie we might be getting.



fuck forgot to ask >.<


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## capoeiraesp

Glad to see I'm notcthe only one who got 80 tacked on the price. Sent my email back to get it sorted. We're almost there!


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## earworm

Got my email today also i cant wait to get it.


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## tekkadon d

got my email and cant wait to get it. i felt like it was like "oh yeah i got a 7 coming' but its never gonna happen but the wheels are in motion
lol


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## Edika

Received the email also but haven't sent the balance yet. I see a 6 Euros difference from the original price I was quoted and I am not sure it is worth it to make a fuss about it. Anyway I will send the payment in a couple of days after I get my salary!


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## Andromalia

Got the email also, but Gmail put it in the spam folder so I only saw it today. So check your spam folder if it's missing.


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## Meshugger

I am looking forward to a whole new batch of NGD-threads by wednesday, folks!


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## Andromalia

Wouldn't expect it Wednesday, Michele stated we'd receive the money requests something like 2 weeks prior to delivery.
Guitars are most likely done, what remains is putting the custom pickup orders in and setups I guess, which will be done in Italy.


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## Psionicist

Just trying the above out.

I am hoping we get our Emperions by the middle of the month!

Psionicist


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## Edika

Me too but I don't want to get my hopes up!


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## 13point9

Im being as patient as I can with these things if it don't turn up in 2 months though I'm fucked as my lease is up and ill be moving home hhahaha


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## earworm

Anybody notice how different the noraxs look now compared to their old style. I really prefer the old style, how the body goes straight into the neck. Oh well i gave em the rest of my money for it. I hope its sweet.


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## tekkadon d

Andromalia said:


> Wouldn't expect it Wednesday, Michele stated we'd receive the money requests something like 2 weeks prior to delivery.
> Guitars are most likely done, what remains is putting the custom pickup orders in and setups I guess, which will be done in Italy.



whats this about the custom pickups?


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## 13point9

earworm said:


> Anybody notice how different the noraxs look now compared to their old style. I really prefer the old style, how the body goes straight into the neck. Oh well i gave em the rest of my money for it. I hope its sweet.



Yeah i noticed this too bit worried as that joint looks huge


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## irolis

Custom pickup orders = BKP/EMG/..


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## Snytbaggen

So I mailed them this morning and asked if they had an estimate, since that may change where I want them to ship the guitar. They haven't answered yet (14 hours later), but I hope that means they're busy as heck building the guitars and haven't had the time to answer yet


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## 13point9

they have just said on their facebook that they are moving to a bigger premises...


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## Snytbaggen

Oh wow, I completely missed that xD


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## irolis

Left handed Custom made V Guitar from Emperion .... With EMGz 707 : ÌíÊÇÑ ÌíÊÇÑ ßåÑÈÇÆí ááÈíÚ Ýí ÃÈæ ÙÈí¡ ÇáÅãÇÑÇÊ ÇáÚÑÈíÉ ÇáãÊÍÏÉ - ÓæÞ .ßæã
Picture's of a finished product (not sure if it's an old one)


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## 13point9

judging by the string thru angle on the body its an old one...


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## Snytbaggen

Strangely enough I dreamt that I received the guitar a few nights ago, and since that I've been gassing like mad xD


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## Edika

Snytbaggen said:


> Strangely enough I dreamt that I received the guitar a few nights ago, and since that I've been gassing like mad xD



Hahahahaha that is the worst feeling ever! But it is getting harder and harder to wait!


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## markbolwell54

Any ideas when they are going to be ready?


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## Edika

Send them an email today to ask this and I am waiting for a reply. When I get an answer I will post here (I asked them about mine and the other guitars in general).


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## tekkadon d

has anyone paid yet? when are they due? i got the email saying three weeks for payment and this is the last week isnt it? but yeah just keen to see when they would be coming?


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## earworm

Ive paid, im just noe waiting for a big box to come or somekindof email telling me its been shipped. Now that ive paid in full i find myself getting impatient.


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## markbolwell54

I'm just worried that no one has received anything yet!


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## eks_500

Ive paid too, mine is a seven, so I think I'll have to wait even more. I hope that the wait worthwhile.


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## Snytbaggen

Mailed them about a week ago and haven't received any answer yet. Things seem very quiet from their side... Hopefully this means they are busy putting all the guitars together. Although they did move to another place a few days ago, according to Facebook.


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## markbolwell54

I had a response today which says they are leaving Japan via cargo within the week! I guess this means they still have to install the electronics and finish them so I wouldn't be expecting anything for at least another 2 weeks!


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## MaxOfMetal

When was the original target completion date?


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## capoeiraesp

They still haven't left japan? 
Damn. I was hoping to get it by the 30th fir my 25th bday. 
These sure are some ridiculous delays.


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## CrushingAnvil

They're giving away free sets of pickups with orders for guitars?


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## MaxOfMetal

CrushingAnvil said:


> They're giving away free sets of pickups with orders for guitars?



Nope. 

Apparently the free gift to make up for the late orders was strap locks.


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## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> When was the original target completion date?



End of february beginning of March...
Now, I'm ok to cut them some slack for the volcano thingy, but as they have asked for the final payment now my patience ain't going to be what it was. ^^


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## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> *End of february beginning of March...*
> Now, I'm ok to cut them some slack for the volcano thingy, but as they have asked for the final payment now my patience ain't going to be what it was. ^^



Jeebus!

You folks have some serious patience.


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## markbolwell54

Andromalia said:


> End of february beginning of March...
> Now, I'm ok to cut them some slack for the volcano thingy, but as they have asked for the final payment now my patience ain't going to be what it was. ^^


 
I think its a bit worrying!


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## capoeiraesp

I don't think we should 'worry' as it's all paid up by paypal. I think if the quality is up there it'll be all worth it.


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## ShadyDavey

Just as a FYI I received this today:



> Hi there,
> 
> Emperion guitars is growing, so we're moving to bigger premises in
> order to accomodate our stock for the long awaited 2010 guitars.
> 
> Sorry for the slow down in email reply but we're moving since two
> weeks and everything should be set during next week.
> 
> 2010 guitars will be leaving in a matter of days from Japan so we're
> finally getting closer, stay tuned !


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## Edika

Me too but you beat me to it hehehe!!!


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## MaxOfMetal

capoeiraesp said:


> I don't think we should 'worry' as it's all paid up by paypal. I think if the quality is up there it'll be all worth it.



Doesn't PayPal have a limit on the amount of time you can file a claim?


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## 13point9

MaxOfMetal said:


> Doesn't PayPal have a limit on the amount of time you can file a claim?



Yes, but with the amount of people that would be filing claims and for the amount its after, there may be an exeption.

lets hope it doesn't come to that


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## MaxOfMetal

13point9 said:


> Yes, but with the amount of people that would be filing claims and for the amount its after, there may be an exeption.
> 
> lets hope it doesn't come to that



Honestly, I don't think PayPal will give a fuck. I've seen some eBay sellers pull some major shit and PayPal has done nothing. 

Though, I doubt it's gonna come down to that. 

I'm just saying that after a certain time it doesn't matter how you made the payment. While PayPal is a great service it's not perfect.


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## markbolwell54

Is anyone really that worried? I'm not sure what to think really?


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## Andromalia

EU laws are very protective of the customers, if it comes to that. But I don't think it will, this is most likely a case of a small company getting a too big order compounded by the volcano issue as they said. There likely was a lot of stuff waiting in Japan and they couldn't really pay prime prices for the first available planes without sinking their company. 
I've already seen that in other businesses and I'm not overly worried. 
I'll be worried the day the website disappear and we get mailer daemon messages when mailing them.


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## markbolwell54

When they ask you for the remainder of the balence, I suppose you could ask to see a picture of the guitar before you pay? And if you've ordered a pickup upgrade you'll be able to tell whether its yours or not!


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## AhsanU

I got an e-mail asking me to finish the remainder of my balance, I replied saying "I'll happily do it after I see some pics of my specific guitar." They replied back in a few days with three pics of my Norax II-7. Here are the shots:

















They said the 7 string hardware took a while to get, and the fact that I ordered Seymour Duncan Blackouts will also delay the guitar. They said they expected to deliver our guitars by the end of April. I pretty much knew it was going to be a load of bollocks, so I'm expecting shipment mid-late June. If it isn't here by mid July, I'm gonna contact paypal regarding the issue.


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## irolis

Weren't the inlays on the special 7's supposed to be golden?


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## AhsanU

irolis said:


> Weren't the inlays on the special 7's supposed to be golden?



They were, and I was a little disappointed about that, as well as the fact that the inlays are similar to the ones that Jackson's putting on their latest 7 string guitars. The preview picture had golden shark fins that filled up a good chunk of the fret, but whatever.

The upper fret access is also a bit of a let down. It's similar to that of a Jackson KV2, and while the access on a KV2 is great, I was hoping for more of a Corey Beaulieu Dean 7 string V type of access as shown here:







But still, I'm not arguing anything - especially because of the price.


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## Kawrn

AhsanU said:


> I got an e-mail asking me to finish the remainder of my balance, I replied saying "I'll happily do it after I see some pics of my specific guitar." They replied back in a few days with three pics of my Norax II-7. Here are the shots:



Looks like Made In China woodwork to me. Is it what it is sold for ?


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## markbolwell54

AhsanU said:


> I got an e-mail asking me to finish the remainder of my balance, I replied saying "I'll happily do it after I see some pics of my specific guitar." They replied back in a few days with three pics of my Norax II-7. Here are the shots:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They said the 7 string hardware took a while to get, and the fact that I ordered Seymour Duncan Blackouts will also delay the guitar. They said they expected to deliver our guitars by the end of April. I pretty much knew it was going to be a load of bollocks, so I'm expecting shipment mid-late June. If it isn't here by mid July, I'm gonna contact paypal regarding the issue.


 
I agree, I cant see it being any earlier than June! I think its a good idea if people ask for pics before paying up, gives some sort of re-assuance.


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## capoeiraesp

Christ. That is a really weak looking veneer. I'm glad I didn't end up going with something custom from them. 
I have also asked for pics of my white 7 stringer.


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## Snytbaggen

capoeiraesp said:


> Christ. That is a really weak looking veneer. I'm glad I didn't end up going with something custom from them.
> I have also asked for pics of my white 7 stringer.



I'd really like to see those pictures, since I ordered the same as you. So please post them here when you get them, or at least send them to me


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## capoeiraesp

I will certainly share for all to see.


----------



## Andromalia

Well, as much as I was for testing out a "new" euro manufacturer, I didn't order anything fancy, standard black for me. 
I wouldn't expect wonderful finishes for 400 considering there's an OFR with the guitar. The veneer does look disappointing.
Except for the pups, I didnt it weird they say getting pups is gonan delay since they've had 4 months to get them now, and their price was included with the first payment.


----------



## Edroz

jeez, did they even bother to take measurments to properly place those inlays? . i mean, come on now, they're crooked and misplaced as all hell. i would definitely be asking for a refund .


----------



## Fuel

Second'd. As much as I hate to judge something before the guitar is in anyone's hands, that veneer looks more than just weak, the inlays are visibly crooked, and the headstock/neck junction just looks terrible. 

Maybe the mad rush on Emperion resulted in guitars getting rushed through the process.


----------



## Rotatous

I ordered a custom from these guys. If it is shoddy at all, I'm sending it back with a refund and getting a Carvin. Or do you guys think I should cancel my order right now and get a Carvin?


----------



## Andromalia

Well, waitfor the result. I'm not passing any judgment until I have my guitar in my hands and can inspect if for myself. Those inlays are not encouraging, though.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Rotatous said:


> I ordered a custom from these guys. If it is shoddy at all, I'm sending it back with a refund and getting a Carvin. Or do you guys think I should cancel my order right now and get a Carvin?



dude. Cancel and get a Carvin. trust me =] Carvins are the best under 2 grand.


----------



## Purist

Edroz said:


> jeez, did they even bother to take measurments to properly place those inlays? . i mean, come on now, they're crooked and misplaced as all hell. i would definitely be asking for a refund .



+1


----------



## HaloHat

For under 2k you may want to check out "Strictly Seven" guitars [Original Floyds, more wood choices, scale choices, pick-up choices, outstanding communication with great photos etc] in addition to Carvin.

As far as Emperion goes, I had this in my in-box just now. I didn't order anything from them so noting at risk for me with them. They sure seem to sell the sizzle not the steak? Well at least it looks like someday you may actually get some form of guitar from them. Oh, note no new address on their new location, probably just an oversight eh, being so busy as they are and all . Man I hope you guys get something halfways decent for all they have put you through...

"Hi there,
Emperion guitars is growing, so we're moving to bigger premises in order to accomodate our stock for the long awaited 2010 guitars.
Sorry for the slow down in email reply but we're moving since two weeks and everything should be set during next week.
2010 guitars will be leaving in a matter of days from Japan so we're finally getting closer, stay tuned !

Best regards
Emperionguitars.com
You're now subscribed to Emperion Guitars newsletter ! Thanks for you interest
www.emperionguitars.com
[email protected]"


----------



## Hollowway

Edroz said:


> jeez, did they even bother to take measurments to properly place those inlays? . i mean, come on now, they're crooked and misplaced as all hell. i would definitely be asking for a refund .



Yeah, the upper curve of the HS is not smooth either.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Fuck. I never looked at that closely. What a shocker on the curve.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I'd ask for my money back. That guitar barely resembles the specs and photo. The inlays aren't the same color, size or placement. The website shows the body joining the neck at the 22nd fret, not the 19th. The HS doesn't look the same. This isn't the guitar you paid for. FWIW, the guitar on the web site is pretty sweet. But this ain't it.


----------



## Edroz

also, looks like part of the fretboard still needs to be routed for the locking nut. seems odd to me to do that after the guitar has already been finished. 

and yes the "veneer" is pretty poor too. looks like green paint applied with a paint brush and cleared over. 

i would definitely bring all these issues up to Emperion before any of you guys send them more money.


----------



## earworm

I really hate the neck joint thats not how they were pictured thats what made me really like the emperion v shape and got me to order one. Im really thinking of cancelling my order now. Michele has been really cool with me but thats not what i orderedo thought i ordered i almost got a new washburn wm7 but i had already deposited my money on the emperion i might have made a mistake.


----------



## Andromalia

Well, just sent an email asking for pics of my scorpius, if ever they don't grab one randomly since mine was all stock except pups. Stock including a white binding I didn't see on black scorpiuses (scorpii ?) in the factory pics.
I'll likely take the guitar anyway but that will provide some more info.

It's true that the differences with this are troubling: 







Even the cutaway is different.


----------



## earworm

I just sent an email to cancel mine, i really liked how the old norax looked i cant see why the new one looks so different.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Astounding differences with the norax.
If you cancel now though won't you lose your initial deposit?


----------



## irolis

Hopefully they don't screw things up,as this could mean the downfall of the company once the first NGD arrives,the option of getting BKPs in Europe was my main reason I wanted one,not sure what to get if I would reship it to them for a refund..


----------



## 13point9

Heres the return policy on the Emperion Website...


"Return Policy - 30 days - 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed

If you received an incorrect item or items are received damaged, it must be returned within seven business days of receiving the item to get a full refund. Items may be returned for any other reason within 30 days of receiving but will not have shipping charges refunded. Customers that received the wrong item or damaged items may elect to have the item replaced or refunded. Only ground shipping charges will be refunded to the customer if returned within 7 business days. Return shipping refunds will not exceed regular "UPS Standard","UPS Expedited" (for outside Europe shippings) or regular PosteItaliane shipping method to the customer's location. We will arrange the return shipping for you. Returns and exchanges will usually be processed within one week of receipt. If you elect to send items back on your own (not have UPS pickup) be sure to put insurance the product and get a return tracking number. Items that are lost or damaged on the way back to us are not refundable. Items that are being returned for other reasons will not have shipping charges refunded. These items must be returned in new condition with unaltered original package, if an item is returned with damaged and/or altered conditions (inlcuding original packaging) we reserve the right to charge a 20% cleaning and restocking fee. Any items that have been modified by the customer are not returnable. 

We ship WORLDWIDE. Customers ordering outside the EU are also responsible for paying their own customs duty / VAT, which will be added to your bill on all export sales and is due upon receipt of order. Customs duty and brokerage charges (for orders outside EU) are not refundable for any reason."

Heres a breakdown on my guitar:-

TOTAL Price:- 600 euros

2x Lundgrens:- 240 euros (rrp would make them 358 euros)

Hardcase:- 40 euros

so if we take the pup upgrade at rrp cost it comes to 202 euros for the rest of the guitar, manufacture and shipping etc...

I think people are expecting too much...


EDIT:- but yes there have been a lot of differences regerding things like heels etc, if I'm not happy with mine ill be sending an email the day after I receive it to have it picked up...


----------



## irolis

My god,check the first pic on the main page of the website,u can see that at the 6string norax the body and neck meet at the 19th fret as well..
http://www.emperionguitars.com/images/emperion_norax6st_01.jpg
This clearly isn't on this picture!
Goddamnit, this means we all will receive a 'wrong item' imo!


----------



## AhsanU

Edroz said:


> also, looks like part of the fretboard still needs to be routed for the locking nut. seems odd to me to do that after the guitar has already been finished.
> 
> and yes the "veneer" is pretty poor too. looks like green paint applied with a paint brush and cleared over.
> 
> i would definitely bring all these issues up to Emperion before any of you guys send them more money.



Honestly, I don't really care much for the graphic or whatever they want to call it. I've got a good friend that would probably be willing to paint anything I want on it.

As far as the fret inlays go, that's also an issue. I wouldn't go so far as to ask for a refund (mainly because I too want to see and play the finished product before I pass judgment) but I'm torn between asking them for a partial refund and just letting it sly.

Gah, I was really hoping for the exact same guitar they showed. Guess I'll really have to go completely custom shop at Dean or Jackson to get exactly what I want.


----------



## Snytbaggen

Take a look at where the body and fretboard meet on the Scorpius - it's the same thing there!


----------



## irolis

The logo has a different angle too,on the photoshop it's aligned with the tuners,on the picture it almost goes straight down.


----------



## Andromalia

Aaaand judging by the factoy pic all the Vs have an uneven headstock with the ugly bump. I hadn't looked closely because I didn't order that model. 





I have a baaaaad feeling about this.


----------



## capoeiraesp

I wonder why they haven't routed the bridge posts?


----------



## Andromalia

No idea, another pic shows them routed all right. 
I fear what happened with their lack of wood, is that they actually made two series, not one. and one of them might be bad. 

this pic doesn't look so bad, guitars are routed and body seems to connect at 22nd/21st fret:


----------



## irolis

Yea looks fine there but...that shouldn't be an excuse for them to rape those guitars


----------



## Snytbaggen

I will still give them a chance though. But if it's not good I'll send it back the day after I get it.


----------



## markbolwell54

Has anyone contacted them to say that the pictures look a lot different from the photoshop?

P.s can someone tell me what GAS means?


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles

markbolwell54 said:


> P.s can someone tell me what GAS means?


Gear Acquisition Syndrome.


----------



## Andromalia

markbolwell54 said:


> Has anyone contacted them to say that the pictures look a lot different from the photoshop?
> 
> P.s can someone tell me what GAS means?



I mailed them this morning, but they likely are on their week end atm.


----------



## markbolwell54

Andromalia said:


> I mailed them this morning, but they likely are on their week end atm.


 
What did you send?


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

IMO shit like this is to be expected. In most cases, the "too good to be true" or "you get what you pay for" sayings are usually true. The only super cheap semi custom shop that seems to be able to pull this shit off decently enough is Rondo, but of course it's not that great for folks in Europe.


----------



## markbolwell54

I think it would be too damaging for them to supply rubbish! For a company thats trying to break into the main stream can they really afford to get a bad rep? Perhaps they are so cheap because they want to make a name for themselves and if they were £1000 i imagine no one would take a chance on them! But the pictures do look a bit damaging!


----------



## irolis

They're working on a 'next gen scorpius' as stated on their facebook
Looks quite 80s and relic'd (or it's just chipped off)




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


----------



## Raphy00

i actually dont think the pictures look that bad, yea the thing with the inlays is pretty bad how its completely different then it showed. but i can see mine in the pictures and am looking forward to getting it  and i kinda expected the long wait so its not too bad.


----------



## MJS

Those pics don't look too great. Hope it all works out, but...

Keep in mind that websites are easy to change. So, if I had ordered one, I'd probably take a screen shot of the policy page and any pictures on the site of what you thought you were buying... _just in case_. 

I'm definitely staying tuned for the NGD threads when they start showing up.


----------



## markbolwell54

Just looking on the Agile website, those guitars are the same'ish sort of price as the Emperions and everyone say's how fantastic they are so the "price to good to be true" isn't necessarily true in all cases!


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Yeah, they look great. Unlike the Emperions 

You would think it would be damaging for a company to supply complete shit when they're starting up....but it wouldn't be the first time. Halo anyone?


----------



## 13point9

Agiles are $600+, the Emperions are 350 euros+ inc shipping

not really similar prices especially for people in Europe, not defending Emperion, but you can't really compare the two


----------



## markbolwell54

13point9 said:


> Agiles are $600+, the Emperions are 350 euros+ inc shipping
> 
> not really similar prices especially for people in Europe, not defending Emperion, but you can't really compare the two


 
I'm not defending Emperion but Agiles start at $575! = to 450 euros

Agile Septor Pro 727 EB White (Deposit for Sept 2010) at RondoMusic.com

So Similar prices i think!


----------



## Snytbaggen

markbolwell54 said:


> I'm not defending Emperion but Agiles start at $575!
> 
> Agile Septor Pro 727 EB White *(Deposit for Sept 2010)* at RondoMusic.com
> 
> So Similar prices i think!



I think you missed the bolded part 

EDIT: I swear it said $287.50 when I klicked "quote"


----------



## markbolwell54

Snytbaggen said:


> I think you missed the bolded part
> 
> EDIT: I swear it said $287.50 when I klicked "quote"


 
Haha, What I'm just trying to say is that everyone is scare mongering (spelling?) about the Emperions but Agiles are in a "similar" price range that people who have ordered Emperions have paid (free case and shipping with emperion) so they "might" be comparable?

Not all that is cheap is crap is what I'm saying!


----------



## Prydogga

I'm a little scared of the Emperions now, that green V looks, well. Horrible, IMO, I really hope for everyone that has ordered's sake these turn out great, but right now, I'm doubtful.


----------



## Emperoff

markbolwell54 said:


> I'm not defending Emperion but Agiles start at $575! = to 450 euros
> 
> Agile Septor Pro 727 EB White (Deposit for Sept 2010) at RondoMusic.com
> 
> So Similar prices i think!



Yeah, you forgot the extra 100$ for shipping, the Fedex import tax (around 20$), and the custom duties (varies, in Spain is an extra +20% of item value).


----------



## markbolwell54

Emperoff said:


> Yeah, you forgot the extra 100$ for shipping, the Fedex import tax (around 20$), and the custom duties (varies, in Spain is an extra +20% of item value).


 
But you forgot you might live in italy (for the emperions) or America (for the Agiles) and not have to pay any of these! I'm talking about the prices of the hardware itself.


----------



## 13point9

markbolwell54 said:


> But you forgot you might live in italy (for the emperions) or America (for the Agiles) and not have to pay any of these! I'm talking about the prices of the hardware itself.



I did a dissection on my order 2 pages ago and it came to 202 euros for the actual guitar minus pickups and case...


----------



## poopyalligator

Edroz said:


> .




Dude I would be super pissed if I ordered that guitar, and then the guitar came to me with uneven inlays that werent gold and werent flush to the sides. I dont know if it is just me, but the inlays look like they are off center or something.


----------



## markbolwell54

poopyalligator said:


> Dude I would be super pissed if I ordered that guitar, and then the guitar came to me with uneven inlays that werent gold and werent flush to the sides. I dont know if it is just me, but the inlays look like they are off center or something.


 
In everything I said, i have to agree with this! You should contact them!


----------



## Hollowway

MJS said:


> Those pics don't look too great. Hope it all works out, but...
> 
> Keep in mind that websites are easy to change. So, if I had ordered one, I'd probably take a screen shot of the policy page and any pictures on the site of what you thought you were buying... _just in case_.


That's actually a really good idea.


----------



## Samer

poopyalligator said:


> Dude I would be super pissed if I ordered that guitar, and then the guitar came to me with uneven inlays that werent gold and werent flush to the sides. I dont know if it is just me, but the inlays look like they are off center or something.



That looks horrible (IMO), i would ask for a refund ASAP!


----------



## haffner1

I think the inlays look kind of bad, but looking at it, I think the problem is more with the design rather than being installed actually crooked. It looks like the bottom of the shark fin is cut at a straight 90 degrees, rather than the angle of the neck. Because the neck tapers and gets wider as you go up the fretboard, the frets are not perpendicular to the edge of the neck. The long part of the fin is made parallel to the fret, so at each marker, the angle at the bottom of the fin and the edge of the fretboard changes and makes it look uneven. Also it looks like the width of the inlays stay the same all the way up the neck, whereas the neck widens. This, along with alternating up and down, makes everything look even worse. It needs to be redesigned so that the angles change with each marker to match the angle of the neck taper and the width of the fingerboard.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

markbolwell54 said:


> Haha, What I'm just trying to say is that everyone is scare mongering (spelling?) about the Emperions but Agiles are in a "similar" price range that people who have ordered Emperions have paid (free case and shipping with emperion) so they "might" be comparable?
> 
> Not all that is cheap is crap is what I'm saying!



No ones scare mongering because of the price.... they're looking at the build pictures, and it doesn't look anything like what was promised. The fret access is a lot worse than mock ups, the inlays are crooked, etc.


----------



## Andromalia

markbolwell54 said:


> What did you send?



I asked for pics of scorpius with the specs that are on the web site. (Yes I have saved a page just in case). Meaning among other things the fret access and white binding.
I'll be traveling for the next three days so I won't update before wednedsay evening if I get a reply.

What's troubling is that the red and white scoprius don't even have the same body shape so I don't think they're from the same run. The reds are much more Schecter-looking.

And Agiles are not an option in Europe excepti if you really really want one, with import taxes stricly talking about money you're as well with an Ibanez or LTD. Shipping alone is around 150ish dollars for a guitar, that's a lot for a 600$ one. Addup 25% VAT at arrival and you endup with a 800&#8364; guitar. Which isn't really "budget" anymore.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Yeah, I know Agile is a pretty shitty deal for European folks, it's not even that great for Canadians.

I was more commenting on the fact they're the only cheap semi-custom shop around that I've seen get good guitars out. They've had a few duds, but Kurt is great about fixing shit up for folks.

The Emperions might very well to turn out to be pretty decent  They could just be bad pictures.... No reason to give up hope just yet


----------



## Andromalia

Well, we won't know without trying, which is why I ordered one. It was not as if I _needed _another guitar. Really. Ooooh look at that Fend....ooooh nice Gibs...Argh I'm at it again.


----------



## markbolwell54

Andromalia said:


> I asked for pics of scorpius with the specs that are on the web site. (Yes I have saved a page just in case). Meaning among other things the fret access and white binding.
> I'll be traveling for the next three days so I won't update before wednedsay evening if I get a reply.
> 
> What's troubling is that the red and white scoprius don't even have the same body shape so I don't think they're from the same run. The reds are much more Schecter-looking.
> 
> And Agiles are not an option in Europe excepti if you really really want one, with import taxes stricly talking about money you're as well with an Ibanez or LTD. Shipping alone is around 150ish dollars for a guitar, that's a lot for a 600$ one. Addup 25% VAT at arrival and you endup with a 800 guitar. Which isn't really "budget" anymore.


 
The shape is what I was concerned with on the scorpius as I already have a schecter and dont really want another one lol, and theres clearly no binding on them. The only thing I can think, but would be rather strange, is that they are hand finsishing them, body shape & binding in Italy! But if thats the case why would they already be painted!


----------



## Snytbaggen

Hmm... When I look on their site, it seems like all their guitars have pretty much the same fret access plus minus a fret or so. At least the ones they have actual pictures of.


----------



## Andromalia

Check the pic I put above, the white scorpius have binding and a different fret access, and what seems to be a markedly different body. That's what leads me to think their wood quality problem led them to have the guitars manufactured in two series and not one, hence the difference.
I'm not settling for something with different specs than what I've bought, though.

That said, I'm flying to England for a gig if that ##### volcano lets me, I'll post if I have received an answer from them when I'm back wednesday evening.


----------



## Snytbaggen

Yeah, but the white Scorpius 7 I ordered also has bindings, it's one of the two behind the red guitars in the pic and although I can't relly tell by the picture it seems to have the same shape. Maybe the differences are just because the white you saw is a six-stringer?

And good luck with your flight and gig, hope the ashes clear up 

EDIT: I agree though, there are differences. I counted and the frets meet the body on the 16th and 22nd fret on the white six-stringer, and on the 17th and 20th on the red.

EDIT 2: Just for comparison, on their non-flying V guitars the meet on the 19th (Orion, 24 frets), 22nd (Sceptrum) and 18th (ZX-6FB, 22 frets). This is from the guitars they have real pictures of and not just 'shops.


----------



## markbolwell54

I wonder if Emperion are aware of this thread?


----------



## earworm

Im pretty bummed about this whole situation as i was really optimistic they were gonna pull through. None of my emails have been answered since they posted the last payment email, im not sure ill get my money back now. I think this is what happens when a new company buys guitar bodies at wholesale prices from a company from china (aram music probably) and where i buy a guitar without actually seeing the real deal. Imo they should of just ordered one model of each of there guitars to see how they came out to make sure they resembled their designs perfectly before even taking preorders. Ill never pay for a guitar made by photoshop again lol.


----------



## markbolwell54

earworm said:


> Im pretty bummed about this whole situation as i was really optimistic they were gonna pull through. None of my emails have been answered since they posted the last payment email, im not sure ill get my money back now. I think this is what happens when a new company buys guitar bodies at wholesale prices from a company from china (aram music probably) and where i buy a guitar without actually seeing the real deal. Imo they should of just ordered one model of each of there guitars to see how they came out to make sure they resembled their designs perfectly before even taking preorders. Ill never pay for a guitar made by photoshop again lol.


 
Is there anyone out there that feels confident about what Emperion are going to supply? If not maybe we should all email them whilst something can be done (maybe)?


----------



## Snytbaggen

markbolwell54 said:


> Is there anyone out there that feels confident about what Emperion are going to supply? If not maybe we should all email them whilst something can be done (maybe)?



The main thing I'm worried about is the upper fret access. Since I ordered a guitar without fretboard inlays I'm not worried about crooked inlays. But I'm for contacting them.


----------



## earworm

Ive emailed them ago stating my concerns and the reason for me to cancel my order but ive yet to get a reply. If they say to theyll make the necessary changes id keep my order with them even though it will probably be 6 more moths before i get he guitar.


----------



## irolis

mailed them Friday,no response yet..


----------



## markbolwell54

irolis said:


> mailed them Friday,no response yet..


 
Let us know when you hear back from them.


----------



## Murmel

Alright guys. We have a person at gitarrforum.com that is endorsed by Emperion at the moment, he recently got his guitar (read today). He got the Spectrum neck-thru model with Bare Knuckles. From the pics I saw of the backside of the guitar it looked exactly like a standard set-neck so I don't believe that it's a neck-thru, but he is happy nevertheless.

He is very satisfied with the guitar but he hasn't a video of it yet, but he promised that he will. I'll get link it to you guys as soon as he posts it.

And yeah, it's no seven but I thought it was kinda relevant


----------



## markbolwell54

Murmel said:


> Alright guys. We have a person at gitarrforum.com that is endorsed by Emperion at the moment, he recently got his guitar (read today). He got the Spectrum neck-thru model with Bare Knuckles. From the pics I saw of the backside of the guitar it looked exactly like a standard set-neck so I don't believe that it's a neck-thru, but he is happy nevertheless.
> 
> He is very satisfied with the guitar but he hasn't a video of it yet, but he promised that he will. I'll get link it to you guys as soon as he posts it.
> 
> And yeah, it's no seven but I thought it was kinda relevant


 
Cool, thanks for that. I think the pics look really nice and they look spot on to the photoshop pics! Does that mean they have started shipping?


----------



## markbolwell54

Murmel said:


> Alright guys. We have a person at gitarrforum.com that is endorsed by Emperion at the moment, he recently got his guitar (read today). He got the Spectrum neck-thru model with Bare Knuckles. From the pics I saw of the backside of the guitar it looked exactly like a standard set-neck so I don't believe that it's a neck-thru, but he is happy nevertheless.
> 
> He is very satisfied with the guitar but he hasn't a video of it yet, but he promised that he will. I'll get link it to you guys as soon as he posts it.
> 
> And yeah, it's no seven but I thought it was kinda relevant


 
Just translated what the guy said, translation as follows,

"Have had the guitar now!

However, too tired to make somebody guitar video today. Want to be healthy and alert so I can play well

But can say that it was just as I thought it would be if not better! Will not comment much about the pickups because there is something you choose personally, but they sounded really good!

Can say that it feels and sounds better than PES Endel guror which I tested in stores and now I am not exaggerating. Scratched with it today and also sustain the SHIT!

Can not say except that I am very satisfied and can not wait for my next Emperion (will probably be a black pallet). This is a brand that I can think of to stick to fact.

Good news I think!


----------



## capoeiraesp

Emperion Guitars - Gitarrforum
link helps

looks solid but I sure hope they don't do mini switch coil splits on my scorpius.
Looks like they've just used a solid paint base on the back so u can't see the neck thru.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Murmel said:


> Alright guys. We have a person at gitarrforum.com that is endorsed by Emperion at the moment, he recently got his guitar (read today). He got the Spectrum neck-thru model with Bare Knuckles. From the pics I saw of the backside of the guitar it looked exactly like a standard set-neck so I don't believe that it's a neck-thru, but he is happy nevertheless.
> 
> He is very satisfied with the guitar but he hasn't a video of it yet, but he promised that he will. I'll get link it to you guys as soon as he posts it.
> 
> And yeah, it's no seven but I thought it was kinda relevant



An endorsee saying something positive about the company that's endorsing them? 

Holy shit, alert the media!


----------



## eks_500

UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com - NGD (Probably Unknown Content)










Here is a guy that has just receive his Orion 6FR, and it looks cool like the Sceptrum at guitarrforum. I don´t know what to think, the pics from factory looks great also (with the exception of fret access or binding on black ones), but that green V..... OMFG, looks worrying. I thought since the beginning that the green and red Vs with maple top were "too custom" to risk. I think they added those models by popular demand but it was too much for them.

I really want to know if the Scorpius are TRANSPARENT BLACK (like the specs) or if they have painted them glossy black...


----------



## markbolwell54

eks_500 said:


> UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com - NGD (Probably Unknown Content)
> 
> Here is a guy that has just receive his Orion 6FR, and it looks cool like the Sceptrum at guitarrforum. I don´t know what to think, the pics from factory looks great also (with the exception of fret access or binding on black ones), but that green V..... OMFG, looks worrying. I thought from the beginning that the green and red Vs with maple top were "too custom" to risk. I think they added those models by popular demand but it was too much for them.
> 
> I really want to know if the Scorpius are TRANSPARENT BLACK (like the specs) or if they have painted them glossy black...


 
That one looks pretty damn good too! Hopefully they will all be of the same quality as these 2. The guy with the orion is in the uk so I guess they have started shipping?


----------



## Snytbaggen

Okay guys, just got this:



> Hi Daniel,
> 
> ok, guitars are finally ready and packed,
> 
> an air cargo should be heading our way this week so then only time to set up, control every guitar and then we will be shipping everything out to the customer, we're almost done
> 
> best regards
> Michele / Emperionguitars.com


----------



## capoeiraesp

Just found this too.
Emperion Flying V
http://images.craigslist.org/3n33k53p65T05Z45R2a5ha07bcd829026182d.jpg

and this

http://muusikoiden.net/tori/nayta.php?id=420455


----------



## eks_500

He has promised a video


----------



## Raphy00

yay  things are looking much better. Are these photos ^^ from the guy whos endorsed?


----------



## 13point9

its hard to get a les paul copy wrong...


----------



## irolis

I'll worry less from the moment that I'll see a V shape :-D


----------



## Raphy00

13point9 said:


> its hard to get a les paul copy wrong...



i was saying things are looking up regarding the email reply saying guitars are ready and packed


----------



## Murmel

MaxOfMetal said:


> An endorsee saying something positive about the company that's endorsing them?
> 
> Holy shit, alert the media!


True, but I wouldn't say the guitar is awesome if I got a shit guitar from my endorser.

And those pics posted above are of his guitar. Looks good to me.


----------



## Snytbaggen

Raphy00 said:


> i was saying things are looking up regarding the email reply saying guitars are ready and packed



Packed in Japan and ready to be sent to italy, that is. My guess is that they'll start shipping guitars out to customers sometimes next week.


----------



## Murmel

markbolwell54 said:


> Just translated what the guy said, translation as follows,
> 
> "Have had the guitar now!
> 
> However, too tired to make somebody guitar video today. Want to be healthy and alert so I can play well
> 
> But can say that it was just as I thought it would be if not better! Will not comment much about the pickups because there is something you choose personally, but they sounded really good!
> 
> Can say that it feels and sounds better than PES Endel guror which I tested in stores and now I am not exaggerating. Scratched with it today and also sustain the SHIT!
> 
> Can not say except that I am very satisfied and can not wait for my next Emperion (will probably be a black pallet). This is a brand that I can think of to stick to fact.
> 
> Good news I think!


Hah!
Google translate? If not, you may wanna work on your Swedish 
But atleast it got the mainparts right, which I guess is enough.


----------



## 13point9

Raphy00 said:


> i was saying things are looking up regarding the email reply saying guitars are ready and packed



ah sorry wasn't refering to your post just the pics of the LP guitar =) I'm getting a bit itchy about my Norax now...


----------



## Raphy00

13point9 said:


> ah sorry wasn't refering to your post just the pics of the LP guitar =) I'm getting a bit itchy about my Norax now...



haha no worries, i think we all are. not long to go now


----------



## jymellis

AhsanU said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


 
did you order this to have a different neck pup than bridge pup? it looks to me like the routing for the neck pup is much larger than the bridge, especially the pup tab routing


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Murmel said:


> True, but I wouldn't say the guitar is awesome if I got a shit guitar from my endorser.
> 
> And those pics posted above are of his guitar. Looks good to me.



You might not, but you and him, are two different people. From what I've seen regardless of the company or player, what endorsees' say must be taken with a grain of salt. 

Typically endorsees' get the "creme of the crop" which typically gets an extra once over from the factory/supplier to make sure they get a high level endorsement worthy instrument. It's just how it goes.

Not to mention, you can't really tell how an instrument sounds or plays from a couple of "okay at best" photos. 

All I'm saying, is to take this endorsee's opinion with a little grain of salt.


----------



## Murmel

MaxOfMetal said:


> You might not, but you and him, are two different people. From what I've seen regardless of the company or player, what endorsees' say must be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> Typically endorsees' get the "creme of the crop" which typically gets an extra once over from the factory/supplier to make sure they get a high level endorsement worthy instrument. It's just how it goes.
> 
> Not to mention, you can't really tell how an instrument sounds or plays from a couple of "okay at best" photos.
> 
> All I'm saying, is to take this endorsee's opinion with a little grain of salt.



I know what you are saying. But since this person is a very respected member of gitarrforum.com and has been for quite some time, I take him for what he's saying.

BUT!
I'm still very doubtful about these guitars, if you can read Swedish, you can actually see that almost all of my posts in that thread are rants against Emperion because of what I've seen and heard here.


----------



## earworm

I have to say that orion looks sweet.


----------



## markbolwell54

Wow, this is the quietest this thread had been in a while! lol


----------



## eks_500

These pics have calmed the storm. Here is a video of the Orion

??? They are going to sell pickups now?



The "online shop" link on the website go to the Emperion Shop (in construction)


----------



## jymellis

wow, that has some of the worst fret buzz i have ever heard! maybe they shouldnt have use the clean channel and should have stuck with the "dirty channel"


----------



## Raphy00

markbolwell54 said:


> Wow, this is the quietest this thread had been in a while! lol



hopefully its the calm before the storm


----------



## snuif09

jymellis said:


> wow, that has some of the worst fret buzz i have ever heard! maybe they shouldnt have use the clean channel and should have stuck with the "dirty channel"



haha youre right that buzz is sick but maybe the guitar was set up shitty atleast i hope so for the people that ordered the guitar


----------



## Snytbaggen

FWIW, the endorsee at gitarrforum.com said he had some fretbuzz on the 18th fret on one string and nowhere else, IIRC.

EDIT: He also said that he's working on getting the sound to the computer so he can record a video with good sound.


----------



## jymellis

i heard fret buzz on everything he played on the low e or whatever he was tuned to, even open


----------



## 13point9

jymellis said:


> i heard fret buzz on everything he played on the low e or whatever he was tuned to, even open



i think the endorse was the guy who has the LP copy


----------



## Andromalia

Back from the UK and no email. :/


----------



## Snytbaggen

13point9 said:


> i think the endorse was the guy who has the LP copy



Correct


----------



## markbolwell54

Andromalia said:


> Back from the UK and no email. :/


 
Thats a bit sh!t!


----------



## Snytbaggen

markbolwell54 said:


> Thats a bit sh!t!



One possibility is that the guitars was already packed when they read the mail, and in that case it would be kinda hard for them to send pictures. I got a mail that said they were packed yesterday, and it's possible they were packed even before that.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Snytbaggen said:


> One possibility is that the guitars was already packed when they read the mail, and in that case it would be kinda hard for them to send pictures. I got a mail that said they were packed yesterday, and it's possible they were packed even before that.



They could have at least sent an e-mail that said that.


----------



## Snytbaggen

MaxOfMetal said:


> They could have at least sent an e-mail that said that.



True. But they have been veeery slow with the e-mail answers lately. But I agree, they could've done that.


----------



## Andromalia

On the other hand, maybe they don't want to have to take pics of 250 guitars for 250 guys asking for them, and are waiting to see them in person.
Wouldn't be the first time a chinese factory would blow an order, really.
There's no real pics of stock scorpius 7s, the one we see (the white) are 6 stringers, leadig me to believe the ones behind in black are likely 6 stringers also, the reds are another model too and only have binding at the back so pics won't show it. there are different models of white Vs etc.

My finger is on the panicbutton but I haven't pressed it yet.

Simplest way to communicate would be using their web site, though. (They could use a web designer too, my little sister could make a less appaling websites)


----------



## Issor

Seems like a lot of people in this thread are too trusting of this company. I'm not saying they're ripping anyone off, or even likely to rip anyone off, but all of this "oh, well maybe they're just too busy" business is not the way to go about treating any company, really.

A certain level of communication is necessary and expected from any company, especially one in which each customer has made a trust-based investment for a not-insignificant amount of money. The lack of communication lately, coupled with what appears to be a good first run and bad second run of guitars, is really, really worrying.


----------



## Murmel

Rasmus (the guy from gitarrforum) just put up a video.
Someone please make it playable in the forum because I don't know how to do it on this forum 



It will need some times to process because he uploaded it like 30 minutes ago, after an hour it's fine.

Edit: z0mg it embedded itself


----------



## markbolwell54

Anyone had any emails lately? Or anyone had thiers delivered yet?


----------



## Psionicist

I have heard nothing so far. In fact, these forums have been more informative than Emperion. I have to remind myself to exert patience.


----------



## irolis

Got a response!


Hi ----,


i am starting to answer emails regualrly tomorrow since we're almost finished transferring to new headquarters,


situation is that guitars are finished and the air cargo is coming here next week, then only time to set up everything and ship to customers


about the design modifications on the Norax we slightly changed it because we were a bit afraid about sustain loss as it is a set neck guitar, so we opted for a bigger body to get more sustain from that guitar, however we will be issuing a lot of pictures when the guitars will be here and if anybody won't be satisfied we can refund of course


Best regards
Michele / Emperionguitars.com


Well I rather had some info before they decide don doing this..


----------



## capoeiraesp

Seems like the last 3 weeks has been "oh, the guitars are coming next week".


----------



## AhsanU

I've opted for a refund, and will probably invest in a custom 7 string Dean or settle for an Agile, either way - that Norax doesn't look anything like the original picture they showed.

I emailed them a few days ago regarding a refund, still have not heard anything from them.


----------



## Nonservium

Man I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger on a Sceptrum and went with a Schecter Hollywood Classic instead.


----------



## markbolwell54

Any news?


----------



## irolis

Nope,my guess is that something will be up on their web due Friday.


----------



## markbolwell54

Well lets see what happens this week! Hopefully some emails & pictures!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Anyone want a start a pool?



I kid I kid


----------



## markbolwell54

MaxOfMetal said:


> Anyone want a start a pool?
> 
> 
> 
> I kid I kid


 
On what mate?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

markbolwell54 said:


> On what mate?



On when people will be receiving their guitars.


----------



## markbolwell54

MaxOfMetal said:


> On when people will be receiving their guitars.


 
Haha, I hope no one says never!  that might start a right old debate! lol.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

markbolwell54 said:


> Haha, I hope no one says never!  that might start a right old debate! lol.



I figure it would lighten things up a bit.


----------



## Raphy00

MaxOfMetal said:


> I figure it would lighten things up a bit.



Put me down for June  or if u want a date, June 19th.


----------



## Andromalia

June being in one week that's a risky bet we have there.


----------



## irolis

You know,the whole 'pre order 2010' thing..if they want to give pre-orders for 2011 they should start taking orders right now,otherwise it'll be 2012 before anyone sees one,haha.


----------



## Snytbaggen

I'll make a bold bet: People will start to receive guitars in the first half of June.


----------



## irolis

After that I think,this week they should receive the guitars,so if they would inspect them and install stuff (if needed)..


----------



## markbolwell54

No one had anymore email responses from them then?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I'm gonna say, there will still be people without their pre-order 7-string Emperions in late (e.i. last week, plus a couple days) of June, and into early July. 

Though, I'm a negative nancy on this whole happening.


----------



## ShadyDavey

Just got this:

Hi there,

a good news for everybody, both those who pre-ordered the instruments
and those that are asking to order it now,

the loading procedures of the air cargo directed to Emperion
headquarters started yesterday monday 23th May,

we should be receiving the guitars next week, then we will be as fast
as possible to set up and customize (if applicable) the guitars and
then shipping to customers.

Stay tuned for a picture report very soon !

Best regards
Emperrionguitars.com


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ShadyDavey said:


> Just got this:
> 
> Hi there,
> 
> a good news for everybody, both those who pre-ordered the instruments
> and those that are asking to order it now,
> 
> the loading procedures of the air cargo directed to Emperion
> headquarters started yesterday monday 23th May,
> 
> we should be receiving the guitars next week, then we will be as fast
> as possible to set up and customize (if applicable) the guitars and
> then shipping to customers.
> 
> Stay tuned for a picture report very soon !
> 
> Best regards
> Emperrionguitars.com



Wait, I thought they received the guitars already. Hence how they were able to grab pics of that person's green V. 

So they won't even have them till, pretty much, early June?


----------



## Psionicist

If I get to pick a date, I'll take June 29th. 
I like trying to support a new company, I just hope they learn from this experience about time estimates and the next batch will be much more accurate. 
(I understand you cant predict volcanos, etc...)
I am hoping for a good product that I can proudly play....
Soon enough, all our questions will be answered one way or another


Psionicist


----------



## ShadyDavey

MaxOfMetal said:


> Wait, I thought they received the guitars already. Hence how they were able to grab pics of that person's green V.
> 
> So they won't even have them till, pretty much, early June?



I'm so confused with conflicting reports that I really don't know what's happening to be honest.


----------



## capoeiraesp

^When was that recent email sent/received? Are they saying they're receiving the guitars this week (being the email was sent prior to the weekend just gone) or next week?
This 'next week' business is giving me the shits and given i've got some extra dollars i'm tempted to get a refund and go get a std series ESP or something.


----------



## Snytbaggen

capoeiraesp said:


> ^When was that recent email sent/received? Are they saying they're receiving the guitars this week (being the email was sent prior to the weekend just gone) or next week?
> This 'next week' business is giving me the shits and given i've got some extra dollars i'm tempted to get a refund and go get a std series ESP or something.



I got the mail somewhere in the last 8 hours, which is between 01-09 in the morning for Italy. If it's a chinese company it is possible that they are telling them they'll send it "next week" to try to keep face. Wouldn't be completely unheard of. Anyway, it looks like they finally have been sent after all.

And they just might have asked the company to take pictures of the guitars.

And by the way, I'm mainly defending them here because someone has to and I like to think the best of people


----------



## Andromalia

I'm getting tired of "next week" explanations too....
If the guitar isn't in my post office when I'm back from Hellfest it's over.


----------



## markbolwell54

I thought more people would of had some emails by now? Or maybe some pics? WTF is going on?


----------



## Snytbaggen

markbolwell54 said:


> I thought more people would of had some emails by now? Or maybe some pics? WTF is going on?



According to them the guitars was sent to them this monday, so right now they're on an airplane. But I agree, this has taken too long time. If there aren't some real pics next week I'm bailing out.


----------



## 13point9

Just sent my refund request...


----------



## markbolwell54

13point9 said:


> Just sent my refund request...


 
let us know how it goes?


----------



## 13point9

markbolwell54 said:


> let us know how it goes?



will do I attached my paypal receipts etc so it should be a pretty smooth transaction... but for other people considering refunds make sure to get the refund in YOUR currency as the euro fell in value recently


----------



## Raphy00

13point9 said:


> Just sent my refund request...



aw but were getting so close to actually getting the guitars 

im still hanging in since michelle has done pretty well with emails and my guitar looks pretty good from those production pics


----------



## markbolwell54

13point9 said:


> will do I attached my paypal receipts etc so it should be a pretty smooth transaction... but for other people considering refunds make sure to get the refund in YOUR currency as the euro fell in value recently


 
I reckon you'd be lucky to get the refund for what you paid in pounds!


----------



## 13point9

So all my question emails go unreplied but this one gets a quick response...

"Hi Aaron,

the guitars are arriving next week, but if you want a refund there is no problem,

i will need your paypal address however, can you forward it to me ?

Best regards
Michele / Emperionguitars.com"

I'll hopefully get it in pounds its a £40 difference now ~_~


----------



## markbolwell54

13point9 said:


> So all my question emails go unreplied but this one gets a quick response...
> 
> "Hi Aaron,
> 
> the guitars are arriving next week, but if you want a refund there is no problem,
> 
> i will need your paypal address however, can you forward it to me ?
> 
> Best regards
> Michele / Emperionguitars.com"
> 
> I'll hopefully get it in pounds its a £40 difference now ~_~


 
Yeah its bit strange how the replied so quick to that one!

How did you word your email asking for refund?


----------



## 13point9

'I'm really sorry about this, but the pictures I have seen of the guitars in the factory have a large heel on them, which would make upper fret access almost impossible, The main reason I ordered with you was that you had the best V heel out of you, Agile and BC Rich V's. Along with Hazy predictions of eta's and no mail responses since I paid the second half of the guitar has made it necessary to ask for a full refund.

Please find enclosed the two paypal receipts of the money I sent to you, the total to be returned is £544.88

Regards,'


----------



## markbolwell54

13point9 said:


> 'I'm really sorry about this, but the pictures I have seen of the guitars in the factory have a large heel on them, which would make upper fret access almost impossible, The main reason I ordered with you was that you had the best V heel out of you, Agile and BC Rich V's. Along with Hazy predictions of eta's and no mail responses since I paid the second half of the guitar has made it necessary to ask for a full refund.
> 
> Please find enclosed the two paypal receipts of the money I sent to you, the total to be returned is £544.88
> 
> Regards,'


 
How long before you get the refund?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

13point9 said:


> the guitars are arriving *next week*



Are you sure you guys aren't talking to a parrot?


----------



## 13point9

markbolwell54 said:


> How long before you get the refund?



time will tell I need it pretty soon as I have lined up a possible replacement axe...



MaxOfMetal said:


> Are you sure you guys aren't talking to a parrot?



my sentiment exactly, hence why I continued with the refund request hahaha


----------



## markbolwell54

I really cant believe that no one has had any email updates this week! wtf!


----------



## 13point9

he hasn't replied since the one email i got saying about its ok to have a refund, ive just mailed him again saying about how it must have not gone through along with a money request via paypal

not the most professional thing to do i know but anything to push this along as I have a more than suitable replacement NGD which i need the money for...


----------



## irolis

Asked for a refund 2 days ago,no reply,sigh I'll never fall for such things again


----------



## Andromalia

I was soooo hoping we'd get an european Agile out of this. Barring any serious and blatant difference I still want the guitar so I can judge it, but the delay is annoying, and will me make less forgiving when judging the thing.


----------



## 13point9

every company has teething problems, my refund is also for reasons not to do with Emperion...


----------



## capoeiraesp

I've sent 3 emails in the past 2 weeks and have heard nothing.


----------



## ZZB

irolis said:


> Asked for a refund 2 days ago,no reply



This is my situation as well. This whole deal is somewhat trying on my patience. 

I hope they don't tell me I'm getting my money back "next week"...


----------



## earworm

Oh cmon guys emperions are the guitars of the future especially next weeks.


----------



## capoeiraesp

I was talkin to my local luthier on Saturday about the change in body size of the V and he said it was totally unjustified and probably related more to the manufacturer fudging it. 
So how many refunds we got on the cards now? I asked about 10 days ago and got no reply, even with a need for using it on tour excuse.


----------



## Edika

I would like to see the so called more pictures they'll have before deciding for a refund or no. I am disappointed from the whole experience. I mean it is benn more than three months from the original delivery estimation. When I saw the images of the green Norax my jaw dropped to the floor and not in a good sense. Mind you I didn't expect a first class instrument with the money spent but something in the Agile quality department. My BC rich jrV NJ deluxe which is a neck through guitar has the joining with the body at the 19th fret. I don't have a big problem reaching the low E in the high frets but it is 6 strings and the wings have smaller angle. And the bigger body is not much of a problem if it doesn't look awkward. I don't know if it will fit in their cases though.

I just hope they do give refunds to the people that ask them even before trying the product.


----------



## irolis

Yea I asked the refund so that they wouldn't need to do the hassle of shipping ..


----------



## capoeiraesp

Okay, it's Monday afternoon in Triste Italy. Where are these guitars?!


----------



## Nonservium

capoeiraesp said:


> Okay, it's Monday afternoon in Triste Italy. Where are these guitars?!



Being loaded on the truck next week!


----------



## Snytbaggen

Considering where they were sent from, and when they were sent I expect them to have them around wednesday. I try to be so calm (and patient) about this as I can, nothing good comes from being riled up. But still, it's really hard to stay calm.


----------



## irolis

No problem,


how can we refund you ? Do you have a bank account where can we send the money to ?


Best regards
Michele / Emperionguitars.com


OK answer,hopefully it wont take a week.
EDIT: they confirmed that my refund has been send,an hour after they received my bank details,whoop whoop


----------



## capoeiraesp

patience...wearing thin.


----------



## irolis

Haven't received the payment yet,sigh indeed the pictures are indeed delayed,hehe..


----------



## Edika

I had sent them an email on Sunday because as I see it the period that they will be able to ship the guitars I will be absent for work and for about a month. So I asked them if that will be the case if they will sent me the guitar to a new address or otherwise give me a refund and this was their reply:

Hi Georgios,

no problem about the new address, and for pics as well we will be doing a lot of pics when we will receive the guitars this week, but we should ship the guitars well before 27th June

as for the guitars there is a 30 day trial period where you can return it if you do not like it

Best regards
Michele / Emperionguitars.com

Even though I told the me that I am leaving at 24 of June. I am waiting for the pictures to see what they'll look like and then decide. If I manage to receive it before I leave then I have to check it really fast and make a very quick decision or take it with me and send it back to them from the new address.


----------



## capoeiraesp

well before the 27th of June! I love how the window just gets bigger.


----------



## Edika

If you think about it though they have to receive around 300 guitars, sort them out in order install or swap pickups for the ones with upgraded electronics or install bridges and tuners and check that everything is working properly. They will have to see also who has canceled their order in order to leave those guitars for after they have finished the rest. It is Wednesday today and we don't know if they received them yet and the whole above process depends on the manpower of this company (two or three people in Italy I'm guessing) and how hard they will work. So for them to finish and start sending the guitars by the end of next week seems like an impossible feat to me. If they do finish the guitars in this time frame then I am not sure about the quality control they'll do.


----------



## capoeiraesp

^fair judgment. I'm just annoyed because I've sent 3 emails in the past few weeks and heard nothing. I needed this for "gigs" this week onwards and now I'm stuck without an extra guitar. Thus, I need a refund, as I've requested.


----------



## AhsanU

I asked for a refund on May 16th, and received a reply on May 27th, asking me for my paypal address, I immediately replied and still have not received anything.

Lesson definitely learned, I'm never doing business with a new company. I just want my goddamn refund so I can order my custom Dean


----------



## Snytbaggen

Edika said:


> If you think about it though they have to receive around 300 guitars, sort them out in order install or swap pickups for the ones with upgraded electronics or install bridges and tuners and check that everything is working properly. They will have to see also who has canceled their order in order to leave those guitars for after they have finished the rest. It is Wednesday today and we don't know if they received them yet and the whole above process depends on the manpower of this company (two or three people in Italy I'm guessing) and how hard they will work. So for them to finish and start sending the guitars by the end of next week seems like an impossible feat to me. If they do finish the guitars in this time frame then I am not sure about the quality control they'll do.



My guess is that they will ship out guitars one by one after they've checked them, as it seems unnecessary to wait until all guitars are shipped and send them all at once.


----------



## Edika

Snytbaggen said:


> My guess is that they will ship out guitars one by one after they've checked them, as it seems unnecessary to wait until all guitars are shipped and send them all at once.



Maybe so. If they have to do more work on the guitars for me it seems faster to finish setting up and inspecting the guitars and then start shipping. If they have to do one guitar inspect it and ship it it is going to take ages. Unless of course they divide tasks and one guy sets up the guitars, another inspects them and the third guy takes care of shipping (I am sure there are no more than three people in this company).


----------



## Snytbaggen

Edika said:


> Maybe so. If they have to do more work on the guitars for me it seems faster to finish setting up and inspecting the guitars and then start shipping. If they have to do one guitar inspect it and ship it it is going to take ages. Unless of course they divide tasks and one guy sets up the guitars, another inspects them and the third guy takes care of shipping (I am sure there are no more than three people in this company).



Since I'm moving out for the summer in a few weeks I asked them about it because I might have to change the shipping address. Anyways, they said that they'll ship guitars daily.


----------



## Andromalia

> but we should ship the guitars well before 27th June



They'd better, since I have fixed my own personal deadline to being back from hellfest. That means the guitar must be in my home the 21st on June. I don't think it's asking too much after what will have been a 4 months delay...


----------



## Edika

Snytbaggen said:


> Since I'm moving out for the summer in a few weeks I asked them about it because I might have to change the shipping address. Anyways, they said that they'll ship guitars daily.



Still no news though if they received the guitars or where they will be posting the promised massive amounts of photos so we can see better how the guitars actually look like. From the photos they provided from the factory they seemed nice but I still can't get out of my head the photos from the green "flame top" norax.


----------



## ZZB

After a second refund request - first was sent a week ago - I got an email informing me they're processing my refund now and I should be receiving it soon. At least it wasn't "next week".

Didn't have that much money in this but my business is going to established companies from now on.


----------



## Edika

* Emperion Guitars 2010 guitars are being delivered to our headquarters tomorrow !!*


25 minutes ago · Comment · Like

From their facebook page


----------



## SnowfaLL

Well.. be thankful its only late by 2-3 months.. not 2-3 years like Chris Woods' customers.

To put into perspective, when I asked for a refund from Chris Woods, it took 8 months to even process. All I was asking was him to send my neck back to me also, no money changing hands. And he chose UPS so I got fucked on the border fees too =/

Stick with Carvin for anything custom order, is what I say now.


----------



## irolis

^not an option since they increased prices for Europeans,by the way I've received my refund!


----------



## sublevel

Moment of truth 

either it fly or flop...

Email from them

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi there,


we're very happy to let you know that 2010 Emperion guitars are being
delivered to our headquarters tomorrow,

stay tuned for updates and pics !


Best regards
Emperionguitars.com

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Emperion Guitars

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----------



## Edika

updates and pics would probably be up in the weekend since people will start asking of photos of their guitar. So Emperion it's time to buckle up and work like crazy during the weekend to regain some credibility.


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## Snytbaggen

They really have to learn to protect their website better, took a look in the "images" folder and found some pics of the white scorpius 6 uploaded today


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## Edika

Aside from the rosewood fingerboard (maybe it was an option for this guitar?) the cutaway seems fine and the guitar itself seems very nice!


----------



## 13point9

the strats seem fine it was only the norax's that had a major change...

havent heard back about the refund as of yet, after giving my payment details...


----------



## Edika

As I have ordered a Norax then I am kind of screwed then. Not sure if am though if I don't get to play it or see a proper photo. So to the kind "hackers" if you fish any Norax photos please post.


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## Snytbaggen

Edika said:


> As I have ordered a Norax then I am kind of screwed then. Not sure if am though if I don't get to play it or see a proper photo. So to the kind "hackers" if you fish any Norax photos please post.



Haha, I just went to http://emperionguitars.com/images/ and saw some folders that had been updated today.


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## Edika

Yeah it seems you everybody can have access to their images hahahaha. But unfortunately the updates are from the scorpius above and some pickups called horizon that probably will be available from their site. Thanks for the heads up though I'll be checking their site like this to see for new Norax photos.


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## Raphy00

wow im actually quite impressed by how they look. that guitar reminds me of the ESP Horizon BMF-NT. (Except much cheaper and rosewood ofcourse)


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## capoeiraesp

I was told my refund would be processed yesterday.
That could still be 'ebony' on that guitar.
You guys notice the size of the 24th fret?


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## Andromalia

It's a custom order, as shown by the inlays.
I'd like to see what the standard models look like, and, I admit, what MINE looks like. 
Meaning making sure all the advertised features are there (ebony, OFR, binding etc)



> That could still be 'ebony' on that guitar.



I do fully expect some "not-so-dark" ebony, but the texture on this guitar looks like rosewood.


----------



## Raphy00

Also they posted this.

2010 guitar arrived, joining forces with Horizon Pickups and a unique custom guitar up for sale 
Category: Music

2010 guitars arrived today ! We will be soon updating the website, in the meanwhile shippings for the pre-ordered guitars will start next week. 

We're more than excited to announce that we've joined forces with HORIZON PICKUPS (ITALY) and soon their exceptional products will be featured as a standard on our instruments. 

In the meanwhile, to celebrate this collaboration, we're offering a unique custom guitar loaded with Horizon Architect 6 pickups. 

Check it out at the EMPERION SHOP 
Emperion Scorpius 6NT Custom


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## Snytbaggen

From the site linked to in the mail:



> it features neck thru construction and string thru body for massive sustain, a locking roller bridge and graphite nut. Alder body with a maple-walnut neckthru, rosewood fingerboard and custom logo between 11th and 13th fret.



So it is indeed a rosewood fretboard, and it seems to be a neck-thru too.


----------



## earworm

Edika said:


> Aside from the rosewood fingerboard (maybe it was an option for this guitar?) the cutaway seems fine and the guitar itself seems very nice!


I agree.


----------



## irolis

http://www.emperionguitars.com/images/scorpius_custom/3.jpg
Finish errors near the pickup selector
http://www.emperionguitars.com/images/scorpius_custom/5.jpg
Poor nut job?


----------



## Snytbaggen

No biggie, but they posted this on their facebook yesterday:


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## technomancer

Looking at those pictures from the 4th I'm hardly impressed with the guitar: poorly cut fretboard edges, poorly dressed frets, badly cut nut...


----------



## Snytbaggen

technomancer said:


> Looking at those pictures from the 4th I'm hardly impressed with the guitar: poorly cut fretboard edges, poorly dressed frets, badly cut nut...



Do you think you could point to where in the pictures you see this? I'm very inexperienced about how a quality guitar should look like, and I'd really like to know what to look for and how to spot it.


----------



## sublevel

Snytbaggen said:


> No biggie, but they posted this on their facebook yesterday:



Thats alot to be prepare.. Hope that I can get mine before end of june


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## irolis

Take a look at my previous post,at the switch there's another type of white,looks quite dirty and the nut thing,u can see some 'fiddles' where the strings lay,not that smooth there,and at the right side of the nut u can see a white line of the headstock.


----------



## technomancer

Snytbaggen said:


> Do you think you could point to where in the pictures you see this? I'm very inexperienced about how a quality guitar should look like, and I'd really like to know what to look for and how to spot it.



Look at the large-sized pics of the headstock and body and inlay... the end of the fretboard isn't straight / evenly cut and you can clearly see the bad cuts on the nut in the headstock pic. If you look at the inlay pic you can see by the square tops of a couple of the frets that they weren't properly crowned either.


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## JJ Rodriguez

Also see some filing marks on the frets, and lots of filler in the inlay...but that's probably about on par with cheap "custom" instruments.


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## technomancer

Actually the inlay looks pretty good, there's very little filler on it. I've seen more filler on >$2000 Universes and Jems from Ibanez 

I mean it's not up to Rob's standards but it's far from bad by production guitar standards.


----------



## Snytbaggen

irolis said:


> Take a look at my previous post,at the switch there's another type of white,looks quite dirty and the nut thing,u can see some 'fiddles' where the strings lay,not that smooth there,and at the right side of the nut u can see a white line of the headstock.





technomancer said:


> Look at the large-sized pics of the headstock and body and inlay... the end of the fretboard isn't straight / evenly cut and you can clearly see the bad cuts on the nut in the headstock pic. If you look at the inlay pic you can see by the square tops of a couple of the frets that they weren't properly crowned either.



Aaah, I see now. I've only had cheap guitars, so I've never really known what to look for. Now I know what to keep an eye out for when I receive my guitar


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## JJ Rodriguez

technomancer said:


> Actually the inlay looks pretty good, there's very little filler on it. I've seen more filler on >$2000 Universes and Jems from Ibanez
> 
> I mean it's not up to Rob's standards but it's far from bad by production guitar standards.



I see quite a bit of filler  I mean, it's not horrible, I'm just saying as long as we're nitpicking the guitar might as well call it out


----------



## MaxOfMetal

technomancer said:


> Looking at those pictures from the 4th I'm hardly impressed with the guitar: poorly cut fretboard edges, poorly dressed frets, badly cut nut...



Several pages back, the exact same problems are apparent on other guitars from Emperion. 

Thus it seems these issues aren't the least bit uncommon.


----------



## Andromalia

Snytbaggen said:


> Aaah, I see now. I've only had cheap guitars, so I've never really known what to look for. Now I know what to keep an eye out for when I receive my guitar



Well, all other things considered, remember these _are _cheap guitars.
I was getting the impression at the start the price was because of the preorder and not the regular price.
Still waiting but the guitar is going back if all the features aren't there. Likely won't order another again, too much hassle for a 450 guitar I ordered in December to be delivered in February.


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## technomancer

Sorry but these are problems I'd expect to see on a $100 Chinese knockoff, not something in the $500-$700 range... I know the Agiles I had didn't have that kind of issues and would have gone back if they did


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## MaxOfMetal

technomancer said:


> Sorry but *these are problems I'd expect to see on a $100 Chinese knockoff, not something in the $500-$700 range*... I know the Agiles I had didn't have that kind of issues and would have gone back if they did


----------



## earworm

theres a nice lookin 7 string lefthanded scorpius on there emperion shop site. Kind of looks like my washburn wm7.


----------



## markbolwell54

Emperions facebook page says that QC has been completed today & shipping starts tomorrow!


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## Psionicist

If my left handed Scorpius ST looks that good I'll be happy.


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## MJS

technomancer said:


> Sorry but these are problems I'd expect to see on a $100 Chinese knockoff ...



 

Cheap doesn't have to mean crap. If the idea is to get a 7 string for as little as possible, I'd expect something to look at least as good as $189 Douglas from Rondo. So far, from the low-res pics at least, I think they're falling short. 

A guitar might not play like a dream for a few hundred bucks, but making it look good shouldn't be a problem at any price level. I think I'd have to draw the line at flaws that look like something I could do myself with a dull chisel and 12-pack of beer. 

But... I hope all you guys that ordered one get it and it's something you're happy with that looks better than some of these pics.


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## Andromalia

Well, I knew it was a bet from the beginning. ^^
Getting an agile-like line in Europe would be something nice so that's why I wanted to test and support it. If I get burned, i was warned, but I'll get burned only once. If I'm satisfied, well, I have other ideas for orders.


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## Psionicist

Andromalia said:


> Well, I knew it was a bet from the beginning. ^^
> Getting an agile-like line in Europe would be something nice so that's why I wanted to test and support it. If I get burned, i was warned, but I'll get burned only once. If I'm satisfied, well, I have other ideas for orders.


 
I'm in the same boat, and I really like(d)? that there were a lot more left-handed options. I am just expecting something decent for the price.


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## Edika

I am getting more pessimistic about this purchase. And two days of quality control for about 300 guitars means that they just opened the boxes to check if they are broken or not. No checking and repairing of probable faults. Also it seems that all the work has been done in the factory in China (I think nobody has the illusion that something is coming from Japan). So they will probably do nothing in Italy.

Unless while they ship some guitars they finish up with the ones with the upgraded electronics. And for some strange reason I just want a least to hold it in my hands and play it to decide if I'll keep it or not/


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## Psionicist

If it helps you be less pessimistic, their reputation is on the line, and you can get a refund. 
This also occurred to me: They posted the boxes on facebook,but I wonder really how long was it from when the guitars arrived to when they updated their facebook page. Even their "we are contacting everyone individually" was terribly slow, and someone had copy/pasted their message on the boards here before I received one in my inbox. 

Sure, it sucks to get hopes up that we are getting in on the ground floor of something cool. I am still hopeful that way to some degree. But if they ship us crap, I have no doubt the boards will be filled with "Emperion = gay ass/rip off/etc" and people will be steered away from them by collective bad experiences. 

I know that doesnt make up for uplifted hopes and the hassle of getting refunded etc, but ultimately it seems you can get your money back, and there seems to be a constant stream of cool stuff out there to spend it on. 

Just my opinion

Psionicist


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## Guamskyy

Emperion Scorpius 7NT Custom

I LIKE IT. But look at the nut, the fretboard extends after the nut, kinda odd, but it wouldn't bother me unless it affects it's playability.


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## Snytbaggen

They have some B-stock guitars up at their store now, with pictures of them and the blemishes.
Guitar 1:


















Guitar 2:
















^ I said "ouch" out loud 

Guitar 3:

















Guitar 4:


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## poopyalligator

Man those b stocks looks nasty. Especially that fretboard. That is more like an f-stock instrument. f for fail.


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## Andromalia

The scorpiuses were advertised with body and headstock binding...


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## avenger

Wow that V is ugly


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## poopyalligator

Snytbaggen said:


> ^ I said "ouch" out loud




That right there is straight up inexcusable. I dont even know how they even put a piece of wood like that on a guitar. There is no way somebody could have missed that.


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## capoeiraesp

Why was it even completed???

More pics

The upper fret access looks fun on those Vs. I think they're gonna have a bit of grief from customers over that.


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## Raphy00

capoeiraesp said:


> Why was it even completed???
> 
> More pics
> 
> The upper fret access looks fun on those Vs. I think they're gonna have a bit of grief from customers over that.
> 
> http://emperionguitars.com/images/pics_news_temporary/SCP6_ST_1.jpg
> 
> 
> http://emperionguitars.com/images/pics_news_temporary/SC7_BR_1.jpg
> 
> http://emperionguitars.com/images/pics_news_temporary/NX7_ST_WH.jpg
> 
> http://emperionguitars.com/images/pics_news_temporary/NX7_ST_WB.jpg
> 
> http://emperionguitars.com/images/pics_news_temporary/NX7_ST_1.jpg



wow these are looking nice, except for the whole body connecting to the V's at the 20th fret when the pics showed it around the 22nd/23rd frets. Otherwise they look pretty good


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## wannabguitarist




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## MJS

Is it just me, or is the first fret short & crooked, the second one sticking out past the binding and the third one flush with the binding? 

Not that it matters when you're installing the frets on a piece of wood that looks like it was pulled from a tree that got struck by lightning.


----------



## Hollowway

Snytbaggen said:


>


I hope this was B stock because of the crappy paint job along the black/white edge there, and not just the tip. If that is as crisp of a line as these give that's a shame.


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## Snytbaggen

Hollowway said:


> I hope this was B stock because of the crappy paint job along the black/white edge there, and not just the tip. If that is as crisp of a line as these give that's a shame.



Yeah, every image I posted was B-stock guitars.


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## Ben.Last

Snytbaggen said:


> Yeah, every image I posted was B-stock guitars.



He is saying that, regardless of the chip, the paint looks sloppy. So, if they only b-stocked it due to the chip, that does not bode well.


----------



## Edika

Still can't decide if I should cancel my order now or try out the guitar first and see if I like it or not. I don't dislike the bigger body of the V but it is not as good as the photoshoped image they advertised. Of course if it plays well then it would be better otherwise back fora refund for sure.

Did the people that asked for a refund got it already or are they still waiting?


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## irolis

Got it,spend it already;p


----------



## Snytbaggen

Lern2swim said:


> He is saying that, regardless of the chip, the paint looks sloppy. So, if they only b-stocked it due to the chip, that does not bode well.



Yeah I know, but to be fair he did wonder if that picture was from a B-stock guitar, and I just said that it was  But then again, I had just woken up and was still sleepy when I wrote that, and I'm not a native speaker, so yeah...


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## Guit_02

I just got informed, that my Scorpius 7 will be shipped tomorrow. I`ll post some pics as soon as it arrives...


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## earworm

I had cancelled my order a while ago but I had them keep it since my curiosity got the best of me. I got a wm7 while i was waiting for the emperion so the wait isn't killing me and I have to say I don't mind the look of the norax 7 pictured. The B stocks look like B stocks so I don't see any problem with them. They'll be hard to judge until people get them and start playing them, kind of hard to judge by pictures alone. For me i hope my neck turns out good as i ordered a totally unfinished neck, so I'll see how that goes. A set of bareknuckles and a slightly custom guitar for the price I paid isn't to bad so far imo, but if frets are dead and playability is an issue then it will get sent back for a new one. I'll give them a chance, the main problem for me is i feel that there not being totally honest about things, like them being made in japan and they had to make the body bigger for sustain. They should just be totally honest about stuff like that imo, that's where they seemed to let me down the most. The aram music thing was posted on an emg site along time ago so i knew about that but i wasn't sure if they were just pictures of a prototyped guitar or the real thing, still don't know i guess. They should let us know though.


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## Psionicist

Guit_02 said:


> I just got informed, that my Scorpius 7 will be shipped tomorrow. I`ll post some pics as soon as it arrives...


 
I got the same email. I asked if there was going to be white binding on the headstock and body. I'll update when I either get a response or the guitar.


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## haffner1

Maybe this is a dumb question and I'm missing something, but weren't those all advertised as coming with an OFR on the trem models?  Unless I am blind, those all look like they have cheap licensed trems. I'm really glad I didn't get one now, and that I got my prototype Rich Jr. V 7 instead in January.


Edit- Ok, I see that on the page that comes up now when you click on a B-stock from their site. It does say on the note up front on the buy page that the B-stock come with a licenced trem, not an OFR like the regular models.


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## MaxOfMetal

haffner1 said:


> Maybe this is a dumb question and I'm missing something, but weren't those all advertised as coming with an OFR on the trem models?  Unless I am blind, those all look like they have cheap licensed trems. I'm really glad I didn't get one now, and that I got my prototype Rich Jr. V 7 instead in January.



I can't clearly see the upper wing, but you may be right.


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## haffner1

See my edit.


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## capoeiraesp

Sucks to be someone who expected a nice flamed top. There seems to be some interesting reflections in the shape of the wood. 

http://emperionguitars.com/images/news_images/NX7_ST_RF_1.jpg


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## Raphy00

capoeiraesp said:


> Sucks to be someone who expected a nice flamed top. There seems to be some interesting reflections in the shape of the wood.
> 
> http://emperionguitars.com/images/news_images/NX7_ST_RF_1.jpg


yea i would not be happy if i ordered that. I hope they atleast got an email about it.


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## capoeiraesp

That's a rippin 25mm flamed maple top!


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## irolis

Where are the pickup rings as on the ps?

God they should be ashamed of advertising things like that and just giving you something else..


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## Psionicist

Agreed! I dont remember if it was advertised as a flamed maple top (all the data on the 2010 preorders is off their website as far as I can tell except for the initial images). But you would think at least they could have airbrushed/painted/etc the black lines/stripes on it to come close to the image. 

I know very little about guitar production, but it seems to me before you advertised a special finish, someone would need to get a piece of wood/guitar body and at least prove it could be done before taking people's money. 

I am still hopeful that I am getting a decent 7, but I feel for the people that ordered the Norax models and these special (especially the green one). 

Out of curiosty, did anyone looks that the pics of the Custom Left Handed Scorpius with Horizons they had on the Emperion Shop site? I would be curious if there were evident flaws on that, as I have no eye for that sort of thing.


----------



## Andromalia

Well, since it's now confirmed that all the scorpius pics have no binding contrary to what was advertised, and the 'see through black' ends up being flat black with tons of finish over it, I'm sending my refund request today.
Those guitars simply are not what I ordered, are made in China, not in Japan/Italy, and the delay is just too much. 
I have been patient. No more. The overall quality of the guitars show in the pics is just some of the worse I've ever seen outside of chinese plain ripoffs.
Might use the money to buy a RGTHR2.


----------



## avenger

Is it just me or is that cutout on the V on the wrong side? Compared to the ad it looks like a lefty cutout on a right body. Also the paint lines look terrible.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Raphy00 said:


> yea i would not be happy if i ordered that. I hope they atleast got an email about it.



Let's go down the list, for lolz:

No Headstock Binding
Fucked Upper Fret Access
Fucked "Cutaway"
Shitty Paint "Burst"
Lack of Real Flame Top/Veneer
Wrong Pickups
Wrong Inlay Color
Wrong Nut
No Veneer On Headstock

It could pass as a completely different instrument.


----------



## jymellis

Andromalia said:


> Well, since it's now confirmed that all the scorpius pics have no binding contrary to what was advertised, and the 'see through black' ends up being flat black with tons of finish over it, I'm sending my refund request today.
> Those guitars simply are not what I ordered, are made in China, not in Japan/Italy, and the delay is just too much.
> I have been patient. No more. The overall quality of the guitars show in the pics is just some of the worse I've ever seen outside of chinese plain ripoffs.
> Might use the money to buy a RGTHR2.


 
go for the fucking giger ibanez maing!!!!!


----------



## Jeepers

Not such a big deal, but the controls are in a slightly different place too...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jeepers said:


> Not such a big deal, but the controls are in a slightly different place too...



Now that you mention it, they look kinda out of alignment, as if they were done by hand and without a template.


----------



## Psionicist

Maybe they dont have metric rulers in Italy?

<- my feeling from December until now


----------



## Edika

And to think that I was this close of ordering an Agile instead of this, but at the last minute I decided to give these a try to avoid the hassle of customs for an import alongside with the fear of damage at international shipping. That and the fact that the first Norax models looked and sounded quite good from the soundclips they had posted in youtube.
So it seems since I didn't take the decision fast enough I'll have to try the guitar first and decide for the refund. They have shipped the guitar already and I got my reference code by DHL.


----------



## Fuel

I feel horrible for all the people who ordered these based on the mockups... wow. This is just completely inexcusable. One of the above posters was right - Chibanez ripoffs are often of a higher quality than the guitars in these pictures. And if I'm not mistaken, that "flamed" V is NOT a B-stock, either. Just disgusting.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I hope this is a case of the Emperion guys being new to the industry and dropping the ball, opposed to them being scammers.


----------



## playstopause

Fuel said:


> I feel horrible for all the people who ordered these based on the mockups... wow.



I don't.

Would you order shoes based on a mockup? I would not. You have to try them in order to know if you're confortable with them, you know?. Same fucking thing for a guitar, but x10 because of the cash involved.


----------



## Emperion_Mik

Hi there,

i am Michele, one of the guys at Emperion,

i have been pointed here from a person that i know, i haven't gone through the whole fifteen pages because forums are something that i never really liked.

Anyway, i would like to clarify some points since it seems to that there are too much speculations and not real facts.

So to be much more synthetic and clear as possible:

1) Emperion guitars are made in China

FALSE. 

We used to do prototyping with Aram Music (which is, by they way, a South Korean company) as prototyping can be the most expensive part in producing an instrument.

Only two models (ZX and ZV) were made at Aram and were sold at a very low grade instrument price.

I can't say much more on this since there is a legal action involved with ARAM by using our projects for their own website and other (worst) things they made.

2) Final models are different than the specs provided

Partially TRUE. I am dealing with the person responsible for this and of course errors will be corrected in the future. The differences, however, are only on the aestethic side and the whole "fret access" story is just too much exaggerated.

It is TRUE that is different than the mockup but it is absolutely NOT "unplayable" as someone said, those are judgements based on speculations on pics made "on the fly" just to show up the guitars to most unpatient customers (e.g. the Norax Red Flame has both flame mape on top and headstock but the pic was take on very strong direct sunlight with a not top of the market camera, hence this can be misleading). 

For your reference we used AAA grade alder on the Norax and AA grade flame maple top on the Red flame and Green flame Norax(s)

A customer even made tests with chemical reagents on the woods and contacted us that he was very satisfied on the wood quality, quoting him he said "that's the same alder that there is on the Jackson PRO series".


People who had already the chance to try those instruments has given us entusiast opinions and feedback.


We will provide better pics and videos in the next weeks of course that may help to calm this kind of paranoia.


This being said we're fully aware and we won't decline our responsibilities, this means that if we will process every refund request we may receive if anybody will be unhappy with the instrument. Luckily on a more than couple hundred pre-orders received and being processed and shipped these days we got no more than 6-8 refund requests.


I am sorry but i won't have much spare time to keep on reading the thread so if anyone wants to ask anything or have more clarification can contact us via email.

Best regards
Michele


----------



## jymellis

Emperion_Mik said:


> Hi there,
> 
> i am Michele, one of the guys at Emperion,
> 
> i have been pointed here from a person that i know, i haven't gone through the whole fifteen pages because forums are something that i never really liked.
> 
> Anyway, i would like to clarify some points since it seems to that there are too much speculations and not real facts.
> 
> So to be much more synthetic and clear as possible:
> 
> 1) Emperion guitars are made in China
> 
> FALSE.
> 
> We used to do prototyping with Aram Music (which is, by they way, a South Korean company) as prototyping can be the most expensive part in producing an instrument.
> 
> Only two models (ZX and ZV) were made at Aram and were sold at a very low grade instrument price.
> 
> I can't say much more on this since there is a legal action involved with ARAM by using our projects for their own website and other (worst) things they made.
> 
> 2) Final models are different than the specs provided
> 
> Partially TRUE. I am dealing with the person responsible for this and of course errors will be corrected in the future. The differences, however, are only on the aestethic side and the whole "fret access" story is just too much exaggerated.
> 
> It is TRUE that is different than the mockup but it is absolutely NOT "unplayable" as someone said, those are judgements based on speculations on pics made "on the fly" just to show up the guitars to most unpatient customers (e.g. the Norax Red Flame has both flame mape on top and headstock but the pic was take on very strong direct sunlight with a not top of the market camera, hence this can be misleading).
> 
> For your reference we used AAA grade alder on the Norax and AA grade flame maple top on the Red flame and Green flame Norax(s)
> 
> A customer even made tests with chemical reagents on the woods and contacted us that he was very satisfied on the wood quality, quoting him he said "that's the same alder that there is on the Jackson PRO series".
> 
> 
> People who had already the chance to try those instruments has given us entusiast opinions and feedback.
> 
> 
> We will provide better pics and videos in the next weeks of course that may help to calm this kind of paranoia.
> 
> 
> This being said we're fully aware and we won't decline our responsibilities, this means that if we will process every refund request we may receive if anybody will be unhappy with the instrument. Luckily on a more than couple hundred pre-orders received and being processed and shipped these days we got no more than 6-8 refund requests.
> 
> 
> I am sorry but i won't have much spare time to keep on reading the thread so if anyone wants to ask anything or have more clarification can contact us via email.
> 
> Best regards
> Michele


 
awesome info, but can you tell me when people are finally gonna start getting the guitars that they where promised months ago?


----------



## Emperion_Mik

> awesome info, but can you tell me when people are finally gonna start getting the guitars that they where promised months ago?



We've started shippings this week, we roughtly sent out about 80 guitars at this moment, we should finish shipping out everything in the next two weeks depending on the customization requested by the customer as we're even setting up the guitars with the preferred tuning and string brand/scale requested by some customers

best regards
Michele


----------



## Psionicist

Some guitars are being shipped as we speak. I got my notice earlier this week, and I remember another person posted they had their tracking number.


----------



## Andromalia

> We will provide better pics and videos in the next weeks of course that may help to calm this kind of paranoia.


HAving sent a refund request yesterday, I can't really say I'm paranoid. Check my interventions in this subject, I have been patient and understanding of things such as the volcano business etc. 

That being said, 4 months delay is not acceptable, guitars were supposed to be made in Japan, which you apparently cannot confirm. And the more you wait, the less you are prone to accept that you get delivered something diffrent than ordered. Yes, it's maybe only cosmetic. Cosmetic options are what make a good part of a guitar appeal, else people wouldn't swoon over spalted maples, flamed tops etc. The binding on the scorpius was part of what made them appealing for the price they were offered for. It's gone

You also have to admit the pictures you published are quite bad, and qualifying customers as "impatient" when you are 4 months late isn't very good customer service. If the goods had been delivered in late february as planned this wouldn't be an issue. Too many ordrers ? You didn't have to accept all of them if you couldn't handle it for this run. Rome wasn't made in one day and a first quality short run would have been better than making 300 rushed guitars that are not conforming to the specs.

Thanks for taking the time to post here anyway.


----------



## paintkilz

is that pickup crooked?






and thats definitely not flamed.

i dont think its so much unjustified paranoia as it is bad advertising and bad follow through.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

Well, I have been holding off for months and watching this trainwreck unfold, but I think I can safely say I was right all along about this venture. It would be great to pretend that some guys out there just want to give you an awesome deal and will give you a really cheap, awesome guitar, but in truth they will cut corners and costs, and get their products from the cheapest supplier.

That is exactly what has happened, and you can see the products look like £150 crap. Practically every Emperion guitar I look at has some kind of flaw, and that is aside from the fact that the they just aren't what the customers were sold on, the early mockups are far from the finished products. A real blunder, I'm glad they are procesing refunds, because I'd be mortified if I dropped money on this. 

Also, the black finished guitars look like have just been pulled out of a vat of crude oil.


----------



## Rotatous

I don't think the guitars look quite as bad as some of you do, but I'll just see how everything plays out.

Though, I'm not going to make any judgements at least until I've seen some higher quality pictures. Having taken quite a few pictures of guitars in the past, I know how much a bad, blurry picture with lots of reflections can influence how the quality of a guitars finish (as well as other things, in many cases) looks.


----------



## Valserp

Sad thing is, the older Noraxes DID look exactly like the mockups...


----------



## cyril v

paintkilz said:


> is that pickup crooked?



I'm guessing thats just an angled TOM bridge, making it appear as though the pup is angled.



> i dont think its so much unjustified paranoia as it is bad advertising and bad follow through.



I think it's a little weird that so many people were so eager to jump on board with this company for the first builds even though most people know most problems that occur don't get ironed out in the build process until the 2nd 3rd or 4th run.

You would think people should just wait til they get the guitars before freaking out, it's not like they won't give you a refund if you chose to after inspecting it, then again it's not my money.


----------



## Rick

I hope these issues get cleared up soon, I'm really hoping that Emperion does well. 

And yes, I will continue to play Agiles only.


----------



## exo

Wow, maybe this isn't the best thread to make a debut in(I've lurked for several monthss, this is a cool place), but oh well....

not overly sure about the cutaway access problem people are complaining about....unless my eyes deceive me, the "original", proto Norax in that video above joins at the 19th fret, just like the "new" ones in the pics do. Neither of those, I might add, join up where the mockup photos show......


I'd be more than happy (dependent on how it plays, of course) receiving a guitar that looks like the one in the vid, ESPECIALLY for the prices paid.

That red soloist style guitar a few posts up.....looks like the pup itself might be a tad off, but a quick check with the "rectangle" tool in mspaint shows that the cavity itself is square with the fretboard end, at least. Again, I'd be more than happy with that guitar, if it's ANYTHING like the 94 pro series soloist in neck feel.

The "flame" V....yeah, I have more than a little difficulty seeing the flame on that....but there's enough glare down the center, I have trouble making out much of anything, detail wise Isn't that thing supposed to be a burst, as well? between the heavier paint at the edge of the burst, the glare in the center, and the fact that it's OBVIOUSLY a hasty shot, I'm not so sure I'd rush to judgement on the top just from that pic....I mean, obviously, it's not gonna be a PRS 10 top, or something from Hartung....


I DO know I'd be pretty pissed if I'd been waiting 4 months or more for a guitar though.....sure seems like that anger is coloring some of the criticisms, though.


----------



## Murmel

Honestly, I don't think a top of the line flame maple top should be THAT bothered by the sunlight. I can't see any flame what so ever on that guitar. And I wouldn't call that a burst, more like black edges...

And why are the lightning flashes on the finish so damn strange.. Shouldn't they be like, straight?  <--- Regarding the Norax pic as It doesn't have a curved top the Scorpion.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

cyril v said:


> I'm guessing thats just an angled TOM bridge, making it appear as though the pup is angled.



Nope, the pickup is definitely crooked.


----------



## Ben.Last

Esp Griffyn said:


> Nope, the pickup is definitely crooked.



It could just be the way the protective plastic is situated on top of it. Although, I understand people assuming the worst with how some of these are looking.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

Lern2swim said:


> It could just be the way the protective plastic is situated on top of it. Although, I understand people assuming the worst with how some of these are looking.



It's not just the plastic. If you look at the edge of the pickup, or the magnet line, it's clearly not alignd with the bridge or the end of the fretboard.


----------



## Andromalia

cyril v said:


> I think it's a little weird that so many people were so eager to jump on board with this company for the first builds even though most people know most problems get don't get ironed out in the build process until the 2nd 3rd or 4th run.
> 
> You would think people should just wait til they get the guitars before freaking out, it's not like they won't give you a refund if you chose to after inspecting it, then again it's not my money.



Well, the price vs features was interesting.
Meanwhile: 
-the guitars are 4 months late.
-some of the abovementioned features are lacking.
-some models got considerable modifications (V shape)
-the "Bstock" photos are just terrible. First time I ever see such a botched fretboard, seriously.
-company answers to the questions that the pics have risen was slow or inexistant.
-Still haven't seen a decent pic of the model I've ordered except for said Bstock above.
-Michele persistence to say the red guitar is flamed is not reassuring at all. Whatever the lighting and camera quality a front shot like this should show it. Too bad I don't have one at home I'd show you.

Of all the pics I've seen, *only *the white 6 string scorpius seem to be the specs that were advertised. 

Yes, we've only seen pics. Trick is, we're not blind. At best emperion is guilty of lousy CR, would it have been difficult to showcase pics of finished models of good quality earlier a,d to update their website more often ? I'm patient, I have a custom guitar that I will likely get in 18 months at best, no problem. But when the company is late, I want information.


----------



## haffner1

I took that V photo and ran it through every range of color and contrast variation possible and I can get even the slightest hint of any type of flame or wood grain.


----------



## cyril v

Esp Griffyn said:


> It's not just the plastic. If you look at the edge of the pickup, or the magnet line, it's clearly not aligned with the bridge or the end of the fretboard.



Just throwing it out there, but like I mentioned before about the bridge... you know the pickups are not supposed to be aligned with that, right? It's a TOM bridge that is angled to allow for easier intonation? 





(not mine, just using this as an example)

*EDIT*
Also, I took the time to do this while watching tv... 

I brought the picture into photoshop, aligned the edge of the fret board with with a perfectly straight line. Then drew four more perfectly straight vertical lines and lined them up on the pickup. Then I used color burn around the pickup to take away almost all of the visible plastic cover/tape/whatever(looks to be invaders? lol) so that you can see the true edges of the pickup. (Blue lines are lined up with the outside of the pickup, orange on the pole pieces and obviously the yellow on the bridge. Again, these are *perfectly vertical* lines, so it's not like I am making anything up.)

I'd say it's pretty much 95% there, and the to-the-pixel difference can be accounted for by the way the person took the picture and IMO it's pretty hard to take a perfectly level picture by hand so there is almost always a bit of perspective distortion (i dunno if thats a real term or anything, lol), but anyone thats taken a picture before knows that if you have the camera that isn't perfectly level, there can be some warping, which is why I take dozens of pictures for my NGD threads and end up using like 4/10 when I get around to posting.

let me know what ya think.





(I stand corrected, the bridge is not angled. 


Andromalia said:


> *Well, the price vs features was interesting.*
> Meanwhile:
> -the guitars are 4 months late.
> -some of the abovementioned features are lacking.
> -some models got considerable modifications (V shape)
> -the "Bstock" photos are just terrible. First time I ever see such a botched fretboard, seriously.
> -company answers to the questions that the pics have risen was slow or inexistant.
> -Still haven't seen a decent pic of the model I've ordered except for said Bstock above.
> -Michele persistence to say the red guitar is flamed is not reassuring at all. Whatever the lighting and camera quality a front shot like this should show it. Too bad I don't have one at home I'd show you.
> 
> Of all the pics I've seen, *only *the white 6 string scorpius seem to be the specs that were advertised.
> 
> Yes, we've only seen pics. Trick is, we're not blind. At best emperion is guilty of lousy CR, would it have been difficult to showcase pics of finished models of good quality earlier a,d to update their website more often ? I'm patient, I have a custom guitar that I will likely get in 18 months at best, no problem. But when the company is late, I want information.



It all seemed too good to be true IMO, I tried relaying that message in the original thread along with a few others but most people seemed to ignore that, as well as the mishaps that generally occur with early runs.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset, but if you're taking the chance on a new company with nothing really to show but some photoshop mockups and then after waiting all of that time.. I'd at least want to wait for them to show up at my house to see what kind of stuff they are really offering. I mean, keep the expectations low and all based off of the stuff you mentioned obviously


----------



## Raphy00

i really find it quite funny that people complain about the guitars being 4 months late and all the little (in my opinion) flaws that they have found in the PICTURES of the guitars.

I mean seriously, you order a reasonably priced guitar from an unknown company from their first large run of guitars and expect everything to go perfectly? your just setting yourself up for disappointment there.

and yea you can compare them to Rondo and how theyve gone about things but do u honestly think they didnt have problems with their first run of guitars?

i say just be happy that these problems arent more significant in terms of playability of the guitars.

but anyway mine has been estimated to arrive on the 22nd so i will be giving a review then.

/end rant


----------



## Edika

I should be receiving mine some time next week since it left Italy today and I live in France (quite close). I estimate it arriving on Tuesday or Wednesday. I will inspect the guitar like crazy and see if everything else is in order. Some of what some of the posters are saying concerning the first run of guitars of new companies is true and having ordered a V I expected something like the old Norax's. Maybe most of us should have waited for them to iron out the kinks and buy a second or third run guitars but it seems that the European market was thirsty for a Rondo like company. Too good to be true? We'll see and most of all the people that didn't order will get a chance to see.

The bigger V body doesn't bother me as I have stated before since I have always thought that most of the V's body's seem kind of small. And even though someone mentioned that the bigger body would not add in sustain, due to a discussion he had with a luthier friend of his, I totally disagree since more wood gives a larger tone with more sustain. More mass more vibration more transfer of energy. And concerning the fret most V guitars I have seen join at the 19th fret with the body and are not considered unplayable. I can reach the upper frets just fine in my BC Rich NJ jrV deluxe and my fingers and hands are medium sized.

While it is good to have some answers from Emperion concerning some issues I agree with the posters that they should have not taken a big order of guitars if it was difficult to handle it. And four months late is not being impatient. Also concerning the V guitars they should have informed the clients before changing the design explaining the reasons of doing so and see if they agree with the changes or not. The cosmetic aspect is important for buying a guitar.

In conclusion I will take photos and try to review the guitar as best as I can.


----------



## earworm

I think next time they should do just like 50 guitars and have them pretty much built aleady at least the bodies and necks and post some good pics of the actual guitars. Then you can order the guitar with what pickups and small customizations you want to it maybe even a predermined paint scheme but with your selection of colors. Yeah over 300 was too much for a first run to me. Im glad michele cleared some things up though, im not sure if that particuliar red norax is supposed to be flamed. As far as things being straight i think its really hard to tell with different camera angles and all, there just quick photos.


----------



## avenger

Any updates on these?


----------



## Psionicist

I havent received mine yet. I am in the US, so I am not sure how long to expect it to take, but I have a UPS tracking number. 
It spent the weekend roaming Italy, and arrived in Germany this morning.


----------



## Edika

I was supposed to receive mine today but the fucking DHL (as well as the rest of these idiotic companies) passed after 6 in the afternoon. 

I saw in their site that they were supposed to deliver it today from a city almost 400 km away (for people that know France or are French I live in Montpellier and they were going to deliver it directly from Lyon ). I asked my wife to wait for them but at around 4 in the evening she had to leave. Usually they come some time in the morning and of course never after 5 (French people get of work after 5). So while my wife was out and I came at 8 after work I checked my mailbox and of course no paper. So I wondered what is the status of my package? I check their site and there is a "delivery attempted, recipient not home" 

Of course if I call them and ask for at least a vague time of delivery they'll say they can't predict it, after pressure they'll give me a time and the guy will pass in a completely different time.

So I have to ask my wife not to go out of the house the whole day or I should not go to work to wait for them, which is of course impossible. 

Rant over!

I hope I get it tomorrow so I can examine the guitar and decide what I'll do and of course inform you guys of what to expect


----------



## Snytbaggen

They sent me a mail yesterday where they said they were working on my guitar and would notify me when it's shipped, so I'm eagerly waiting for that


----------



## sublevel

Snytbaggen said:


> They sent me a mail yesterday where they said they were working on my guitar and would notify me when it's shipped, so I'm eagerly waiting for that



The waiting is killing me arghhhh


----------



## Edika

Mine has arrived at my home and I'm stuck at work . Tonight though I'll try to upload some photos in a NGD/review thread and write my initial opinions on the guitar!

Edit: A not so encouraging thing is that my wife told me that the package is light :/


----------



## jerome snail

Well the package can seem light but it doesn't mean that the guitar is light.

I thought that the package of my BC Rich I have been delivered last week was very light, actually the guitar is pretty heavy 

Hâte de voir tes impressions


----------



## Rotatous

Edika said:


> Mine has arrived at my home and I'm stuck at work . Tonight though I'll try to upload some photos in a NGD/review thread and write my initial opinions on the guitar!
> 
> Edit: A not so encouraging thing is that my wife told me that the package is light :/



Did you order a V?


----------



## avenger

Edika said:


> Mine has arrived at my home and I'm stuck at work . Tonight though I'll try to upload some photos in a NGD/review thread and write my initial opinions on the guitar!
> 
> Edit: A not so encouraging thing is that my wife told me that the package is light :/


 Looking forward to seeing some pics/reveiw. Hope it goes well for you.


----------



## Prydogga

Raphy00 said:


> i really find it quite funny that people complain about the guitars being 4 months late and all the little (in my opinion) flaws that they have found in the *PICTURES of the guitars.*



If the cheap camera shot can pick up these pretty obvious flaws, the human eye could probably find some more, just because it's a photo, it doesn't change the fact that every guitar that has been shot looks very dodgy, camera shots may add 10 pounds, but they don't add lack of binding and wonky placed electronics.


----------



## Edika

Yes I ordered a V. I'll take some photos today and try to see the more obvious flaws and also play it to see what it sounds like. My only problem is that I'm not an expert in guitar setup so I'll just play it like that. I don't know if I'll have time a review by tomorrow but I'll write some comments. I'll do a detailed review in the weekend.

Hope it goes well for me as well as for the other people expecting these and I really hope that the weight of the packet was just an illusion.


----------



## Psionicist

I look forward to your review Edika. The weight posted on the UPS site for me was 5 kilograms,so about 11.3 pounds. That sounds about right. I remember when I got my Agile it was 13 pounds (5.8 kg). 
Mine made it to Denmark today, and UPS estimates delivery here by Friday (I am skeptically amazed by that prediction).
I'm a guitar novice but will get some impressions and pics up as well when it arrives


----------



## Edika

Well I received the guitar and it is already packed for return and refund. I send a request to Michele and I am waiting for an answer. There are a lot of reasons but the main one is the pickups:

















I ordered Bareknuckle Warpigs. They don't seem or sound like Warpigs. The sound is so weak I was actually surprised. I plugged my Carvin DC747 with stock Carvin pickups and it raped, killed then raped again, buried it for 3 months than dug it out and raped this guitar. More pics to follow.


----------



## Edika

I want to post more images but I would like to get a pick up confirmation and the refund. I am not sure if they will be very happy with the photos I am planning to post and would like to get my money back. 

Am I over reacting? Maybe I can send a link to my photobucket folder for people that have ordered an Emperion. What do you guys think?


----------



## MJS

Edika said:


> I want to post more images but I would like to get a pick up confirmation and the refund. I am not sure if they will be very happy with the photos I am planning to post and would like to get my money back.
> 
> Am I too over reacting? Maybe I can send a link to my photobucket folder for people that have ordered an Emperion. What do you guys think?



They'd bury themselves if they denied you a refund for posting pictures of what they sold you. 

I really don't think you have anything to worry about... and if you did, they'd already deny you for posting that you'd post them after getting a refund.  

Post away!


----------



## Edika

Hahahaha ok! First I'd like to the most experienced players to verify that are not Bareknuckle pups. I am sure they are not but I would like a confirmation. So on to the pics.

More pics as promised:











Crooked case 


























The "Warpigs" were supposed to be coil splitted via push/pull. No luck !




































Chip under the nut "repaired" with white paint











Fret colour is bronze? The fret wire seems old and battered











More to come after dinner!


----------



## cyril v

The pick-ups, they look like my Warpig BKP's from the top (but then again, thats a pretty generic look), but the back of mine say "BareKnuckle Pickups : Handwound in the UK", the bottom plate does look to be the same design, but again, thats a rather generic look. I guess there is the possibility that since BKP was making a ton of these for this company that maybe they didn't tag the bottoms of these? I dunno, I would contact BKP and ask about that part.

As for sounding bad? There are some people that say they sound bad, and they usually end up having the wiring wrong. Pretty common mistake to wire them wrong for some reason. They should sound absolutely killer if wired up properly.

edit: I'll get some comparison shots for ya in a few minutes.

Bronze frets? They just need to be cleaned, steel wooled or polished... mine get like that sometimes when I'm not even playing them.


----------



## Edika

Back again. Just to mention that there was supposed to be a graphite nut. This looks like a plastic nut to me. 
Anyway let's continue.











I don't know if you can see the small defect in the fretboard in the previous photo and this one between the pickup and the 24 fret. It actually extends as a line until the 22nd fret. Probably a small crack repaired






Maybe here it's more obvious






Badly routed pickup cavities
















Pictures of the bridge. It is supposed to be a Gotoh bridge with roller balls. Doesn't seem like it. Also if you see the intonation screw in D it seems to be stripped a bit. The colour of the metal upon inspection is copper. 
















Badly painted corners with small chips































Are these straplocks?











Badly recessed pickup cavity






Messy routing with a lot of excess colour?
















These don't seem like Gotoh tuners, but maybe I am wrong. On my Squier MIJ they write Gotoh though. These remind me the tuners on a Ravenwest guitar I owned.
















No more photos available. The guitar is already repacked and I am waiting for an answer by Michele that he has initiated the return procedure. There where several places where the paint was not applied as it should and I could see the wood, especially in the cavities. The pickup cavities where roughly routed. 

The guitar itself was quite resonant. I tapped it in several places and I could feel the vibrations in the body. That was the same by just playing the strings. It is neck heavy though. I tried with a regular strap and almost immediately it dived. The guitar itself had a decent weight for a V guitar. The neck felt fatter than my BC Rich NJ JrV deluxe. I stand corrected and the access to the higher frets was pretty difficult. But it didn't feel bad in my hands. Th fretboard seemed decent if you don't take into account the defect but the frets slowed me down. I have seen better fret jobs in cheaper guitars. By inspecting the wood in the routed cavities it seemed a bit porous in texture and I don't know if this a trait of Alder, which this guitar is advertised to be. The pickups that this guitar came with are awful. I had to put the distortion in my triple rec in the modern channel more than 15:00 to get a weaker distortion than the 13:00 I use with the Carvin stock pups. Also I had to EQ the amp to cut the Bass a lot and increase Treble, Mids and Presence to sound decent. Not to mention the intensity difference. These are not high output pups for sure.


----------



## Edika

cyril v said:


> The pick-ups, they look like my Warpig BKP's from the top (but then again, thats a pretty generic look), but the back of mine say "BareKnuckle Pickups : Handwound in the UK", the bottom plate does look to be the same design, but again, thats a rather generic look. I guess there is the possibility that since BKP was making a ton of these for this company that maybe they didn't tag the bottoms of these? I dunno, I would contact BKP and ask about that part.
> 
> As for sounding bad? There are some people that say they sound bad, and they usually end up having the wiring wrong. Pretty common mistake to wire them wrong for some reason. They should sound absolutely killer if wired up properly.
> 
> edit: I'll get some comparison shots for ya in a few minutes.
> 
> Bronze frets? They just need to be cleaned, steel wooled or polished... mine get like that sometimes when I'm not even playing them.



That is a possibility and thank you for offering to post some comparison photos. I don't know if the wrong wiring can make these pickups sound weak. Also the back plate was very dirty and scratched. In general the pickups didn't seem new. I am not saying they weren't but they seemed to have travelled some distance.
Usually my frets, since they tend to be nickel in my other guitars, tend to get green. But this is supposed to be a brand new guitar. Anyway this guitar has too many loose ends for me to keep it.


----------



## Edika

Just sent an email to Bareknuckle with some photos. I should receive an answer in the next days.


----------



## cyril v

Edika said:


> That is a possibility and thank you for offering to post some comparison photos. I don't know if the wrong wiring can make these pickups sound weak. Also the back plate was very dirty and scratched. In general the pickups didn't seem new. I am not saying they weren't but they seemed to have travelled some distance.
> Usually my frets, since they tend to be nickel in my other guitars, tend to get green. But this is supposed to be a brand new guitar. Anyway this guitar has too many loose ends for me to keep it.



Yeah, definitely return that... regardless if its the pups or not. Thats waaaay too many things wrong to look the other way. 

Anyways, heres some shots of my Warpigs... the wiring looks different also, but then again, BKP is a custom shop and can do pretty much anything I suppose. The pole pieces are black btw, thats just the light reflecting that make them look silvery.


----------



## Edika

Thanks again man and coo Xiphos. It must slay with the Warpigs. They screws are different and the backplate also has nothing to do with what I am seeing. As I said in my previous post I send Bareknuckle an email with pics and I should get a reply. It seems that the pups where installed from the factory and since they were supposed to do the additional work in Italy, obviously the forgot. At least that is what I hopped happened.

Edit: I just got an official confirmation by Tim at Bareknuckle that they are not their pickups and that they are most probably cheap attempts at copying their pickups.


----------



## MJS

That's messed up that they're trying to fake BKPs. 

But even if they weren't...


Edika said:


> Chip under the nut "repaired" with white paint



Yikes. That alone is reason enough to send it back. 

A painted over chip isn't an accident or oversight... _it's not caring_. 

I take it the neck would have to be snapped in half before they'd call it B-stock.


----------



## MJS

Edika said:


> Edit: I just got an official confirmation by Tim at Bareknuckle that they are not their pickups and that they are most probably cheap attempts at copying their pickups.



He knows they were sold as BKPs, right--and that you just weren't randomly asking if a pickup was a BKP? 


I might be pulling this out of my ass... and maybe someone with a better memory will know what I'm talking about: Didn't someone here contact BKP before and get told that Emperion hadn't bought pickups from them? 

Maybe I'm thinking of something else, or maybe it was a different brand... I forget. 

In any case, if people that ordered BKPs aren't getting them, I probably wouldn't count on any other brand names being real either.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

MJS said:


> He knows they were sold as BKPs, right--and that you just weren't randomly asking if a pickup was a BKP?
> 
> 
> I might be pulling this out of my ass... and maybe someone with a better memory will know what I'm talking about: Didn't someone here contact BKP before and get told that Emperion hadn't bought pickups from them?
> 
> Maybe I'm thinking of something else, or maybe it was a different brand... I forget.
> 
> In any case, if people that ordered BKPs aren't getting them, I probably wouldn't count on any other brand names being real either.



I believe it was BKP, though it _might_ have been Lundgren. I remember the post you're talking about.


----------



## Snytbaggen

MaxOfMetal said:


> I believe it was BKP, though it _might_ have been Lundgren. I remember the post you're talking about.



I'm fairly sure it was Lundgren. IIRC this was pretty shortly after they listed Lundgrens as an option and he said that he thought he had sold them some pickups, or something like that.


----------



## 13point9

It was me and i contacted both, 

Tim from BKP HAS dealt with Emperion, Lundgren HASN'T dealt with them, I also contacted SD and EMG who both said that they can't track this due to it being done via a distributor


----------



## cyril v

Edika said:


> Thanks again man and coo Xiphos. It must slay with the Warpigs. They screws are different and the backplate also has nothing to do with what I am seeing. As I said in my previous post I send Bareknuckle an email with pics and I should get a reply. It seems that the pups where installed from the factory and since they were supposed to do the additional work in Italy, obviously the forgot. At least that is what I hopped happened.
> 
> Edit: I just got an official confirmation by Tim at Bareknuckle that they are not their pickups and that they are most probably cheap attempts at copying their pickups.



No problem, I actually had been meaning to readjust my bridge pup anyways because the foam underneath had actually slipped towards the neck when I initially put them in, causing them to be on a slight angle and I just needed a good reason to take the time to fix it (I'm lazy, so I just wedged a thin piece of cardboard in there before, lol) 
--------

It's a damn shame to see things turn out like this.. the overall design of the guitar looks awesome, kinda sucks to see terrible QC and fudged specs ruin the day.


----------



## capoeiraesp

I reckon they've just stuck their emp pickups in instead. 
That'd be pretty ballsy and stupid to try and sell bkp knockoffs


----------



## simonXsludge

wow, tough stuff.


----------



## Ben.Last

Yeah, the biggest no no for me is that painted over chip by the nut, the horrid pup routes and... well... seemingly lying about the pups. The fact that they just painted over that chip is very, very telling. This is pretty much in line with what I'd been expecting after all the recent goings on with these guitars. Hopefully they'll make right with all the refund requests they'll undoubtedly have coming their way.


----------



## earworm

Thats pretty shady stuff right there. When they sente the email saying that they were sending out my guitar i sent them another email saying you know i ordered these pickups and i ordered it with this mod to the neck because i dont want to go through the hassle of having to send it back. You shouldnt have to do that though they cant expect 2nd chances with that kind of work.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Has anyone looked at their return's policy as of recent?
They will only refund shipping charges for ground shipping! And only if the guitar is returned within 7 days. Good luck to people outside the EU. 
All in all, those are some nasty defects. I particularly do not like the size of the neck pickup route and having cracked paint is appauling.
I'm also wondering about the quality of the paint work. Those edges indicate that there is a very thin film used for the white and primer. 

Still waiting for my refund 3 weeks after it's been requested on many occassions. Did anyone else get told they were having troubles processing it through Paypal? I really find it hard to believe, even after I've sent a refund request through Paypal.

This takes the cake though. Have a good close look at that. Seems awfully familiar to what we saw on the B-stock models.


----------



## Edika

"Customers that received the wrong item or damaged items may elect to have the item replaced or refunded. Only ground shipping charges will be refunded to the customer if returned within 7 business days. Return shipping refunds will not exceed regular "UPS Standard","UPS Expedited" (for outside Europe shippings) or regular PosteItaliane shipping method to the customerÕs location. We will arrange the return shipping for you for you. Returns and exchanges will usually be processed within one week of receipt. If you elect to send items back on your own (not have UPS pickup) be sure to put insurance the product and get a return tracking number. Items that are lost or damaged on the way back to us are not refundable" 

This is what they have on their site about returns. If I don't get a reply by Friday I am sending them the guitar along with a refund request by PayPal adding the costs of shipping it back to them. Concerning the pick ups I am not sure they did that on purpose. Anyway I have their phone number from the shipping info and will call them if I don't get an answer by Friday.


----------



## Edika

So i had a reply from Michele right know that they are finishing the shipping of guitars and then he will process my refund. I asked him if he can do this before Thursday (to arrange for a shipping company to pickup the guitar) otherwise I'll send them back the guitar and request a refund for the expenses also.

He replied about the nut and pickups as it was my main complaints (didn't talk about the rest of the defects of the guitar) and he replied that somebody forgot to install the Warpigs and concerning the nut that it is a white graphite nut. I assured him that there is no such thing as white graphite and also that the texture of this nut doesn't resemble graphite. So now I wait. I will inform you when I receive my refund so you can be sure it is possible and not worry too much about this also.

I hope that some of you will not have the same problems as me and that your guitars are better since most of us have been waiting for a long time to receive these guitars.


----------



## 13point9

well im in debt after buying the replacement for this after declaring the refund over a month ago and i also got the paypal issue even though I send them a refund request...


----------



## capoeiraesp

^interesting news Ed. Not exactly promising. What if this pickup accident happens to guitars shipped internationally? Whole lotta fun gettin that sorted out.


----------



## Varcolac

Well this is disappointing. After seeing Edika's guitar and how grossly it differs from what was promised, I'm happy I didn't sign up for one of these.


----------



## MJS

The 7 days should mean you have 7 days to send it back. I'd be more worried if it said "returns must be _received_ within 7 days," which would be unreasonable and set them up for a flood of charge-backs.




capoeiraesp said:


> Still waiting for my refund 3 weeks after it's been requested on many occassions. Did anyone else get told they were having troubles processing it through Paypal? I really find it hard to believe, even after I've sent a refund request through Paypal.



That would worry me. Having no money or simply not processing a refund are the only two reasons I can think of for one not going right through. 

I'd send PayPal a copy of the email from them saying they were processing it and that they're blaming PayPal for the hold-up. They probably won't appreciate a dishonest seller dragging their name through the mud. 

This is also why it's a good idea to fund the transaction with a credit card, since you can do a charge-back as a last resort, if nothing else works.


----------



## Edika

"Hi Georgios, i know that there is no white graphite but i know that white graphite nuts does exist, probably graphite mixed with other materials, however i will investigate also this matter and we will issue an official statement soon because a lot of things are going on and needs to be clarified.


Anyway, what i can offer you is to put the BKs in, have a Tusq XL nut installed. If you want a refund anyway just confirm it but i think we won't be able to issue it until the end of the next week when almost all pre-order will be shipped


i am deeply sorry for all the inconveniences caused and we're already working on a radical solution on what happened, i really hate that people is starting to think that we're scammers or worse because we're putting extraordinary efforts, as well as personal ones, to make things go right and in the most transparent and honest way possible


until then


best regards
Michele"

This is the last reply I got from today so I insisted on a refund.

Edit: I stand corrected, there are white graphite nuts and maybe these are white graphite nuts. Of course these are compounds with graphite but the idea of a white graphite seemed very alien to me, so maybe I over reacted on that part.


----------



## JaeSwift

If they aren't scammers then they just have either piss poor QC, or very bad organisation/administration (or all of those).

I hate to say this in a thread where I know a few people ordered an Emperion, but I am damn glad that I didn't order one. Also, if they complain about the 7 day return policy, I believe EU import/export laws can easily overrule them.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Ed, you have not overreacted. 
You have paid good money for are guitar regardless of it being a new company. 
To have poor routes, chipped paint, imperfections in the fretboard, dirty frets and bad paint work is unacceptable regardless of how much money you've spent.


----------



## eks_500

I asked for a refund the 10th June and they don´t answered me, today I re-send the same mail and they answered me in 2 minutes saying that my guitar is already being set up and under "work" for the customization I requested and they can't refund a personalized guitar like mine. First of all, I made my pre-order at the end of february, so there must be many guitars before mine, and the only thing I requested was the coil-split and a wet sanded neck(20 extra), I don´t think it is a custom order or any kind of modification to the original model. Moreover, where is the return policy? It´s suposed that I have 30 days to return it if I´m not satisfied, what I want it´s that they don´t send it! I´m waiting an answer, so we'll see what happens.


----------



## sublevel

eks_500 said:


> I asked for a refund the 10th June and they don´t answered me, today I re-send the same mail and they answered me in 2 minutes saying that my guitar is already being set up and under "work" for the customization I requested and they can't refund a personalized guitar like mine. First of all, I made my pre-order at the end of february, so there must be many guitars before mine, and the only thing I requested was the coil-split and a wet sanded neck(20&#8364; extra), I don´t think it is a custom order or any kind of modification to the original model. Moreover, where is the return policy? It´s suposed that I have 30 days to return it if I´m not satisfied, what I want it´s that they don´t send it! I´m waiting an answer, so we'll see what happens.



hey guess what. I also receiving the same answer.. I ask for sanded neck and Blackout pups. He said that I cant get my refund back.


----------



## ShadyDavey

I just received the following through the mail:



> Hi there,
> 
> It is with a saddened feeling that we've to make an official statement
> on some facts that have seen us as victims rather than guilty:
> 
> 
> Due to a person which is not anymore part of Emperion Guitars we
> simply got different instruments compared to the technical drawings
> and specs that we originally sent to our guitar factory and advertised
> in our pre-order camapaign.
> 
> We rather prefer to act in a deeply honest and sincere way since this
> is our policy not only on the commercial side but on the personal one
> as well.
> 
> As a result the following guitar models have the following specs that
> we even had to investigate ourselves, because the afore mentioned
> person did what we think could be defined a scam.
> 
> 
> Scorpius model, both 6 and 7 strings:
> 
> Body: Basswood
> Neck: Maple
> Fingerboard: Ebony
> Construction: Long tenon set neck
> Nut (Fixed bridge version): Corian
> Nut width (6 string): 43mm
> Nut width (7 string): 48mm
> Binding on neck
> 
> higher fret access shape is different than the one we've developed
> 
> Norax model, both 6 and 7 strings:
> 
> Nut (where applicable): Corian
> 
> same as advertised, higher fret access shape is different than the one
> we've developed
> 
> Sceptrum:
> 
> same as advertised
> 
> Nut: Corian
> 
> 
> Who writes you is working 10 hours per day (week-ends included)
> without wage since more than two months, the whole staff is trying as
> hard as possible to carry out and maintain the name of Emperion and to
> accomplish the requests of our customers.
> 
> We're even spending our own funds to buy the hardcases which we had
> already paid in the first place, this includes also Original Floyd
> Rose Bridges that were guaranteed us, instead we found Licensed ones
> that we're swapping on the guitars in this very moment.
> 
> Needles to say that our reference person in Japan admitted his faults
> and granted us that such won't happen ever again. This doesn't change
> the fact that we simply got a different product from the one we
> developed and ordered.
> 
> Currently we're setting up daily and shipping all the pre-orders and
> we will be processing all refund requests as soon as we can.
> 
> The remaining guitars in stock will be sold at an adequate price in
> order to let us raise funds to refund those who requested it.
> Everybody that got guaranteed a refund will receive it in the best
> timely manner possible, as for the others we are not currently in the
> position to fulfill their request at this very moment.
> 
> A solution is already underway. It consists in a newly hired tech team
> which is already working on our guitar projects from scratch and the
> best thing we can do is to grant a generous discount on the next
> guitar production that will be as advertised before and flawless.
> 
> However, this is not affecting the operations of our custom
> instruments workshop which is operating normally.
> 
> We think that this is the best possible answer we can give to those
> who were unfairly doubting of our honesty.
> 
> Thanks to all of those who have already received our instruments and
> showed us appreciation and enthusiasm.
> 
> 
> Best regards
> All the Staff at Emperion Guitars


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Shouldn't this official statement have been made BEFORE they started shipping people their guitars? 

I feel for them, but to be honest, the "rogue employee" story is one that, in the business world, is just heard way too often. I don't see how in their entire operation a singular individual can be completely responsible for the outcome of these guitars. 

I guess this means the nut on Edika's guitar was white corian opposed to a graphite impregnated material, and that the guitar was basswood, hence the lightweight. That makes sense. 

Just my .


----------



## Edika

I received the same email. By the replies I had already by them it seems I will receive a refund but when will that be is another matter. I have found a replacement guitar but until I get the money back I can't afford it. I understand though if they are low in funds and I think my photos didn't help much to boost confidence to the hearts of the ss members.

Too bad that one incompetent person can cause so much trouble and make such a bad impression for a company that seemed to have big potential.


----------



## Mr Violence

MaxOfMetal said:


> Shouldn't this official statement have been made BEFORE they started shipping people their guitars?



Exactly what I was thinking. I'd assume a luthier would notice the differences between what was ordered and what was delivered. I'm not a pro by any means, but the flaws and the differences between the mockups and the actual product are glaring.

Nothing should have even left the building without the buyers being aware that what they were getting wasn't what they ordered. Now it's a huge pain in the ass for the consumer to get a refund while they could've avoided the problem by communicating with the buyers.


----------



## Edika

MaxOfMetal said:


> Shouldn't this official statement have been made BEFORE they started shipping people their guitars?
> 
> I feel for them, but to be honest, the "rogue employee" story is one that, in the business world, is just heard way too often. I don't see how in their entire operation a singular individual can be completely responsible for the outcome of these guitars.
> 
> I guess this means the nut on Edika's guitar was white corian opposed to a graphite impregnated material, and that the guitar was basswood, hence the lightweight. That makes sense.
> 
> Just my .



They seem to say that the V's had correct specs on the woods but I wouldn't vouch for that. I have my restrictions for the employ story but I am a bit trusting and would like to believe it is like that. Anyway it is the first time I'll say that the photos I posted didn't due justice to the guitar in a positive manner. The defects where not so obvious in my photos (lack of photographic experience + so and so camera).

My feeling is that there where not a lot of people working in Emperion so if one was in charge of orders and doing business with the Asian factory then he could have painted a very different picture to the rest of the people in Emperion. Also for people entering the business world in a more professional level it is easy to get trustworthy partners in different continents.

So as I said I wish the rest of the people get more decent guitars or people that request a refund to get it. I would like to see this company actually succeed since their designs as promised where quite attractive as well as the features promised. We'll see in the future.


----------



## Psionicist

Yeah, although Ihave some sympathy for them, I am pretty pissed off too.
-The reference person in Japan who guarantees it wont happen again should prove it and commit seppuku. 
- I am with Max as I dont know how 1 person toppled Emperion. If the fault was on the Japan side who shipped incorrect instruments, how did that get past QC? That would take more than 1 person. 
- I agree with a previous pst the Emperion (if it stays afloat), needs to seriously address Administration and QC issues. 
- I dont know that the "generous" discount is going to get any return business. Its kind of baffling actually... its like getting bad food at a restaurant and then them offering you a coupon for a free meal. Maybe, if they had been proactive, they could have allowed people to choose to wait for the correct model (that way they could sell the inventory they have, at least theoretically), take what they have now with the discount in the future, or get a refund. 
- Now that the refund is probably unavailable to those who havent already requested it/received the guitars, thats probably going to produce a shitstorm if people are getting guitars that are as flawed as Edikas. 

I am just really aggravated by the mis-management of this, and despite the "rogue employee", Emperion still has to shoulder the blame. It seems like their more recent communications were in the right vein, but too late. 

Thanks for reading, I am a little less pissed now


----------



## sublevel

Well shit happen and look like I have to live with it..


----------



## ZZB

I asked for a refund on the 2nd of June. I've thereafter been refunded by PayPal for the balance payment but my deposit of 145 EUR must for some reason be sent via bank transfer. I got a message yesterday that they're going to "process it as soon as they can". PayPal wouldn't let me file a dispute on the that payment so it might not really be Emperion's fault.

Well at least I've gotten most of my money back.


----------



## JaeSwift

2 things you guys should keep in mind:

1. Under EU law, paying for a product and not recieving exactly that product is warrant for a return/refund. A company not complying with this means they are in direct violation of EU trade law. I can't speak for people who are situated in the USA and ordered an Emperion, but if you are in the EU then they HAVE to give you a refund/return.

2. There's a big inconsistency in their story; remember that the first delay that was acredited due to a shipment of sub-par quality wood? Remember that NONE of the guitars specified on the website are made of Basswood? The only way they would have ended up with a Basswood guitar, is if they ordered some basswood for custom orders. I dunno about you, but it seems highly unlikely that people would want their customised Emperions to be made of Basswood, thus highly unlikely they did this.

That can mean either two things:

A. They never inspected the wood themselves, and the wood came from a supply in whatever country it is actually made (due to the piss poor worksmanship I doubt it's Japan)

B. They ''planned'' on making basswood Scorpius's instead of Mahogany ones all along.

Quite disturbing. Also, I see their variant of the story as highly unlikely, there's no way a single employee in a factory in Japan would put through ALL the specs for the guitars. Even if it did, this also speaks volumes about their QC, which is supposedly handled by Michele and his co-workers in Italy itself.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Here's the post someone claiming to be Michele made recently in this thread:



Emperion_Mik said:


> Hi there,
> 
> i am Michele, one of the guys at Emperion,
> 
> i have been pointed here from a person that i know, i haven't gone through the whole fifteen pages because forums are something that i never really liked.
> 
> Anyway, i would like to clarify some points since it seems to that there are too much speculations and not real facts.
> 
> So to be much more synthetic and clear as possible:
> 
> 1) Emperion guitars are made in China
> 
> FALSE.
> 
> We used to do prototyping with Aram Music (which is, by they way, a South Korean company) as prototyping can be the most expensive part in producing an instrument.
> 
> Only two models (ZX and ZV) were made at Aram and were sold at a very low grade instrument price.
> 
> I can't say much more on this since there is a legal action involved with ARAM by using our projects for their own website and other (worst) things they made.
> 
> 2) Final models are different than the specs provided
> 
> Partially TRUE. I am dealing with the person responsible for this and of course errors will be corrected in the future. The differences, however, are only on the aestethic side and the whole "fret access" story is just too much exaggerated.
> 
> It is TRUE that is different than the mockup but it is absolutely NOT "unplayable" as someone said, those are judgements based on speculations on pics made "on the fly" just to show up the guitars to most unpatient customers (e.g. the Norax Red Flame has both flame mape on top and headstock but the pic was take on very strong direct sunlight with a not top of the market camera, hence this can be misleading).
> 
> For your reference we used AAA grade alder on the Norax and AA grade flame maple top on the Red flame and Green flame Norax(s)
> 
> A customer even made tests with chemical reagents on the woods and contacted us that he was very satisfied on the wood quality, quoting him he said "that's the same alder that there is on the Jackson PRO series".
> 
> 
> People who had already the chance to try those instruments has given us entusiast opinions and feedback.
> 
> 
> We will provide better pics and videos in the next weeks of course that may help to calm this kind of paranoia.
> 
> 
> This being said we're fully aware and we won't decline our responsibilities, this means that if we will process every refund request we may receive if anybody will be unhappy with the instrument. Luckily on a more than couple hundred pre-orders received and being processed and shipped these days we got no more than 6-8 refund requests.
> 
> 
> I am sorry but i won't have much spare time to keep on reading the thread so if anyone wants to ask anything or have more clarification can contact us via email.
> 
> Best regards
> Michele



Then here's the recent e-mail provided by ShadyDave (Thanks man):



Emperion E-mail said:


> Hi there,
> 
> It is with a saddened feeling that we've to make an official statement
> on some facts that have seen us as victims rather than guilty:
> 
> 
> Due to a person which is not anymore part of Emperion Guitars we
> simply got different instruments compared to the technical drawings
> and specs that we originally sent to our guitar factory and advertised
> in our pre-order camapaign.
> 
> We rather prefer to act in a deeply honest and sincere way since this
> is our policy not only on the commercial side but on the personal one
> as well.
> 
> As a result the following guitar models have the following specs that
> we even had to investigate ourselves, because the afore mentioned
> person did what we think could be defined a scam.
> 
> 
> Scorpius model, both 6 and 7 strings:
> 
> Body: Basswood
> Neck: Maple
> Fingerboard: Ebony
> Construction: Long tenon set neck
> Nut (Fixed bridge version): Corian
> Nut width (6 string): 43mm
> Nut width (7 string): 48mm
> Binding on neck
> 
> higher fret access shape is different than the one we've developed
> 
> Norax model, both 6 and 7 strings:
> 
> Nut (where applicable): Corian
> 
> same as advertised, higher fret access shape is different than the one
> we've developed
> 
> Sceptrum:
> 
> same as advertised
> 
> Nut: Corian
> 
> 
> Who writes you is working 10 hours per day (week-ends included)
> without wage since more than two months, the whole staff is trying as
> hard as possible to carry out and maintain the name of Emperion and to
> accomplish the requests of our customers.
> 
> We're even spending our own funds to buy the hardcases which we had
> already paid in the first place, this includes also Original Floyd
> Rose Bridges that were guaranteed us, instead we found Licensed ones
> that we're swapping on the guitars in this very moment.
> 
> Needles to say that our reference person in Japan admitted his faults
> and granted us that such won't happen ever again. This doesn't change
> the fact that we simply got a different product from the one we
> developed and ordered.
> 
> Currently we're setting up daily and shipping all the pre-orders and
> we will be processing all refund requests as soon as we can.
> 
> The remaining guitars in stock will be sold at an adequate price in
> order to let us raise funds to refund those who requested it.
> Everybody that got guaranteed a refund will receive it in the best
> timely manner possible, as for the others we are not currently in the
> position to fulfill their request at this very moment.
> 
> A solution is already underway. It consists in a newly hired tech team
> which is already working on our guitar projects from scratch and the
> best thing we can do is to grant a generous discount on the next
> guitar production that will be as advertised before and flawless.
> 
> However, this is not affecting the operations of our custom
> instruments workshop which is operating normally.
> 
> We think that this is the best possible answer we can give to those
> who were unfairly doubting of our honesty.
> 
> Thanks to all of those who have already received our instruments and
> showed us appreciation and enthusiasm.
> 
> 
> Best regards
> All the Staff at Emperion Guitars



Just putting it out there.


----------



## Necris

JaeSwift said:


> 2 things you guys should keep in mind:
> 2. There's a big inconsistency in their story; remember that the first delay that was acredited due to a shipment of sub-par quality wood? Remember that NONE of the guitars specified on the website are made of Basswood? The only way they would have ended up with a Basswood guitar, is if they ordered some basswood for custom orders. I dunno about you, but it seems highly unlikely that people would want their customised Emperions to be made of Basswood, thus highly unlikely they did this.
> 
> That can mean either two things:
> 
> A. They never inspected the wood themselves, and the wood came from a supply in whatever country it is actually made (due to the piss poor worksmanship I doubt it's Japan)
> .



I really doubt wood quality was the reason for the delay to begin with. Judging by the fretboards a few pages back I'd say their ability to discern wood quality is non-existent. And if it was in fact quality that caused the delay the wood must have been absolutely god awful for them not to just use it anyway.


----------



## tian

I'm not too familiar with the various legal systems over in the EU but I do know here in the States a lawyer would have a field day with this case.



Emperion E-mail said:


> The remaining guitars in stock will be sold at an adequate price in
> order to let us raise funds to refund those who requested it.
> Everybody that got guaranteed a refund will receive it in the best
> timely manner possible, as for the others we are not currently in the
> position to fulfill their request at this very moment.


As MaxOfMetal pointed out, this is pretty crazy and completely unacceptable business practice. Supposedly hiring an entire team of technicians to work on guitars but are also refusing to refund people because of a lack of funds is either complete BS or an amazing lack of business competence.

To anyone who is getting screwed over by this, please don't just walk away. What they are doing is illegal and was either an outright scam from the beginning or a serious problem that needs to be handled in a much more professional manner even if it requires legal intervention.


----------



## MJS

That really just sounds like a generic "please don't sue us because we know we'll lose" letter... and that's way too much stuff to blame on one person. 

The letter mentions wanting to be honest and not having the money to process refunds... where was that honesty when PayPal was getting blamed?  

I don't believe anything in that letter and think it was just slapped together for those who might. 

I think it's safe to say no one there is working for free. At best, they must be referring to people that get the money whether they pay themselves a salary or not.  

No one's paying for cases with their own money, either. Unless they all flip burgers on the side for extra cash, that money they're spending came from the customers that want what they paid for. 

Anyway, it seems like they need to do 3 things to improve: 

1. Clean house. Companies run like that because of a bunch of incompetent idiots--not one ex-employee. 

2. Learn how to be honest. 

3. Learn how to build guitars.


----------



## cyril v

So instead of becoming the RondoMusic for Europe, it seems they've become the Halo Guitars for you guys over there... Bailout asap.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cyril v said:


> So instead of becoming the RondoMusic for Europe, it seems they've become the Halo Guitars for you guys over there... Bailout asap.


----------



## AvantGuardian

I wish everyone the best of luck in getting their refunds but I think its going to be an uphill battle. I don't think its an issue of whether or not you're entitled to a refund - obviously these things are not what they were advertised as. I just don't see Emperion being capable of coming up with the money if there is a massive rush for refunds (which unfortunately seems likely at this point) and they're stuck with a bunch of near-worthless guitars on hand. Even if they can unload them for something, I just don't see enough cash coming in to save them from bankruptcy. As with any new business venture, I'm sure they incurred some debt to just get things rolling, and based on their email announcement, it appears they don't have the cash to process any more refunds at the moment.

Lets hope I'm wrong, but at the moment I just don't see this ending well.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I don't quite see how they can be too broke to give refunds, they're a Vader distributor, and via their eBay store sell ENGL, Mesa/Boogie, Orange, Blackstar, and Peavey amp, as well as CD's, LP's, T-shirts, etc.

Aeternitas Tenebrarum items - Get great deals on CDs, ENGL Amplification items on eBay Stores!


----------



## AvantGuardian

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't quite see how they can be too broke to give refunds, they're a Vader distributor, and via their eBay store sell ENGL, Mesa/Boogie, Orange, Blackstar, and Peavey amp, as well as CD's, LP's, T-shirts, etc.
> 
> Aeternitas Tenebrarum items - Get great deals on CDs, ENGL Amplification items on eBay Stores!


 
Didn't know that, but its not necessarily telling of their financial status. Many retail operations purchase inventory with business credit lines, so even if they have a bunch of non-Emperion inventory, they may not have much cash and may have a sizable line of credit liability.

Obviously I have no idea if this is the case or not with Emperion, but it certainly wouldn't be unusual if it was. Again, I wish everyone the best of luck with their guitars and I'm merely speculating based on what I've read here.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

AvantGuardian said:


> Didn't know that, but its not necessarily telling of their financial status. Many retail operations purchase inventory with business credit lines, so even if they have a bunch of non-Emperion inventory, they may not have much cash and may have a sizable line of credit liability.
> 
> Obviously I have no idea if this is the case or not with Emperion, but it certainly wouldn't be unusual if it was. Again, I wish everyone the best of luck with their guitars and I'm merely speculating based on what I've read here.



You make a very good point man. I didn't even consider that.


----------



## markbolwell54

I'm glad I got in and got my refund early! This is what I feared that they wouldn't have the funds to refund everyone if we all jumped on the refund band wagon!

Never again will I risk this sort of offer! I just want a blood Agile without the import tax lol.


----------



## earworm

For some reason i think mines gonna be perfect when it arrives, i just got this feeling. Its kinda like gambling at this point and im feelin lucky.


----------



## Snytbaggen

earworm said:


> For some reason i think mines gonna be perfect when it arrives, i just got this feeling. Its kinda like gambling at this point and im feelin lucky.



Same here. What model did you order?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

earworm said:


> For some reason i think mines gonna be perfect when it arrives, i just got this feeling. Its kinda like gambling at this point and im feelin lucky.



While the construction could potentially be flawless, and you might get the right pickups but the upper fret access, nut, and body wood will not be what you purchased. Even Emperion admit that. 

Sorry man.


----------



## Edika

I should have done this when I show the green "flamed" Norax. And for sure after they posted the photos of the received guitars. Then when I decided I received the shipping quote I decided if in one hour of inspections I see things I don't like I will immediately ask for a refund. So being the first of the people that received the guitar and asked for a refund I should get it at some point. After I explained to them the urgency of shipping the guitar before Thursday I hope to at least finish with that until then. I want to see what they will answer until Saturday.


----------



## earworm

MaxOfMetal said:


> While the construction could potentially be flawless, and you might get the right pickups but the upper fret access, nut, and body wood will not be what you purchased. Even Emperion admit that.
> 
> Sorry man.


Yeah well you know what i mean


----------



## earworm

Snytbaggen said:


> Same here. What model did you order?



I got the norax stii 7 with an unfinished neck and a set of painkillers in black, how bout u?


----------



## capoeiraesp

This is lovely news to wake up to. 
Looks like they're giving me no refund but a "pro setup" and. Discount on future purchases. I love basswood guitars... Not. Fuckin bullshit


----------



## MJS

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't quite see how they can be too broke to give refunds, they're a Vader distributor, and via their eBay store sell ENGL, Mesa/Boogie, Orange, Blackstar, and Peavey amp, as well as CD's, LP's, T-shirts, etc.
> 
> Aeternitas Tenebrarum items - Get great deals on CDs, ENGL Amplification items on eBay Stores!



In addition to the credit possibility that was already mentioned, maybe they even drop-ship stuff and don't pay for it until they've already sold it. 

It could also be that they have a shitload of money from-and-for those other things and don't plan on spending it on people that got screwed on this venture. 

If it is a line of credit, it's probably just a matter of time before they mess that up too if this is how they run things.

Even if they manage to get their shit together in the financial and honesty departments, they still need to put a little effort into the guitars. Going by the pictures so far, I'd say the guys building these guitars aren't even qualified to sweep floors & clean toilets at Rondo.


----------



## Synthetic

Wow I just finished reading all of the thread and it seems like a pretty intense situation. It was really interesting to read how this has unfolded. 

Good luck to everyone that's trying to get a refund and good luck to those hoping for an awesome guitar.


----------



## MJS

capoeiraesp said:


> This is lovely news to wake up to.
> Looks like they're giving me no refund but a "pro setup" and. Discount on future purchases. I love basswood guitars... Not. Fuckin bullshit



I hope "pro setup" means they pay you to have it setup by a real pro... and not send it back to their hacks for more butchering. 

Discount on future purchases? That's hilarious! That's like a rapist offering to use lube if you come back for a second brutal anal thrashing. 

How did you pay? If they're screwing you like that and you funded PayPal with a credit card, you should just do a charge-back at this point. 

I think if enough people complain to PayPal, they'll side with the buyers. 

It's not a matter of their seller protection only requiring that they provide proof of shipment... they still have to deliver what you paid for.


----------



## capoeiraesp

^well put with the rape comment
I used cash transfer via paypal. Gonna open up a dispute when I get to work.


----------



## Raphy00

NOOOOOO!!!! i woke up at 10am today and there was a delivery notice on the door saying 1st attempt has been made    now i have to wait till monday, grrrrrr


----------



## Fred the Shred

MJS said:


> Discount on future purchases? That's hilarious! That's like a rapist offering to use lube if you come back for a second brutal anal thrashing.





+ rep to you, sir!


----------



## Dionysian

MJS said:


> Discount on future purchases? That's hilarious! That's like a rapist offering to use lube if you come back for a second brutal anal thrashing.



Sig'd.


----------



## audibleE

My time to chime:

I didn't purchase nor wanted to purchase from them. New guitar companies are scary to put your trust into, unless you do your research on the company and they're already reputable. No big news there.

The problem I have with companies like this, is the after the fact sob story, "we're working non-stop, even weekends to meet the demands." Do you want simpathy? Big f'n deal! Don't take money from people when you can't produce quality, and also promise delivery dates. There is no excuse for their actions and poor craftsmanship. Just because these guitars are low retail cost, doesn't excuse the wretched production.

I'm feel really bad for those of you who have been burnt or currently being turned like a meat kabob waiting for replies or guitars.

They should just cut their loses before legal actions are taken. Return all the money to the buyers, sell off their crappy wood stock, parts and never build another guitar again. But the money is probably gone trying to fix their mistakes which should have never happened if they'd planned and perfected their building process from the get-go. Or someone took the money and skipped town.

What morons.

Companies like this sicken me. For shame.

One more thing, Michele stated on an earlier post in this thread, "I don't usually like forums like these..." WTF??? Sure... I wouldn't want to be in-tune with my clients, finding out what they want, fixing issues, taking suggestions. That was a shocking statement.

F' this company, F' their products and just an FU for good measure. Thank you.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

^ This man speaks the truth.


----------



## Purist

audibleE said:


> My time to chime:
> 
> I didn't purchase nor wanted to purchase from them. New guitar companies are scary to put your trust into, unless you do your research on the company and they're already reputable. No big news there.
> 
> The problem I have with companies like this, is the after the fact sob story, "we're working non-stop, even weekends to meet the demands." Do you want simpathy? Big f'n deal! Don't take money from people when you can't produce quality, and also promise delivery dates. There is no excuse for their actions and poor craftsmanship. Just because these guitars are low retail cost, doesn't excuse the wretched production.
> 
> I'm feel really bad for those of you who have been burnt or currently being turned like a meat kabob waiting for replies or guitars.
> 
> They should just cut their loses before legal actions are taken. Return all the money to the buyers, sell off their crappy wood stock, parts and never build another guitar again. But the money is probably gone trying to fix their mistakes which should have never happened if they'd planned and perfected their building process from the get-go. Or someone took the money and skipped town.
> 
> What morons.
> 
> Companies like this sicken me. For shame.
> 
> One more thing, Michele stated on an earlier post in this thread, "I don't usually like forums like these..." WTF??? Sure... I wouldn't want to be in-tune with my clients, finding out what they want, fixing issues, taking suggestions. That was a shocking statement.
> 
> F' this company, F' their products and just an FU for good measure. Thank you.



werd


----------



## Edika

I had asked for them to arrange the pickup of the guitar until Thursday and I have given them also choices to return the guitar myself. Also when I addressed my concerns of the quality of the guitar before it was sent and after I received and requested to return it Michele assured me I will get a refund. So today I receive this email:

"Hi Georgios, you can keep the guitar until you'll be back home, because we are too busy in sending pre-orders by now. We will organize things for the returning procedure, that we'll pay in full so don't worry about that.
I am deeply sorry, but we are not yet able to offer you a refund. The best thing we can offer to you is to send you back the guitar with the pick-ups you ordered + a free Horizon Humbuckers pick up set. This is the best thing we can do for you in this situation to apologise."

And my reply was along with photos of the defects:

"Hi Michele,

If it was only the pickups and the nut I would accept your offer but
the guitar as it is and with the modifications and situation that it
is, is not worth the money I paid. I am attaching you photos to see
some of the more obvious problems.

So we have:
1. Badly routed pickup cavities.
2. Chip on the right side of the nut that was clumsily covered with
paint and not very well placed on the guitar.
3. Bad paint job with small areas all over the guitar with uncovered
wood. Worst of all are the fins were there are chips also.
4. Bad condition of frets. The fret wire seems old.
5. Partially striped intonation screw on the bridge in the D (Re) string.
6. Wrong pickups and wrong nut.
7. Pickups are not placed in correct position in the huge pickup
cavities. Neck pickup is a bit angled and not all poles are alligned
with strings.
8. Wrong body shape.
9. The guitar is very neck heavy even with the bigger body.
10. Fretboard has a defect that starts from between the pickup and
24th fret and finishes on the 22nd fret.
11. Pickup cavity is a mess, cover is sticking out of the body, one
screw wood post is chipped so it is on the air and it is badly painted
and not insulated. It also has remaining wood shavings and paint.

Now if you bought a new guitar and had all these problems, which some
of them are not repairable or would cost too much and take too much
time to repair, would you accept the proposal you gave me? I think
not. I was so disappointed with the guitar that I played it for 20
minutes and then immediately packed it up and contacted you.

I can understand what you are going through but this situation you are
in right now could have been avoided. In this period of time I also
have a lot of work and I am very stressed and this is one thing I
don't want to worry about. So thank you but no!

I will not wait until I have return to send the guitar back. Since it
seems that you can't process the return right now I will ask you to do
it as soon as you have finished with shipping the guitars. I will
arrange for a friend to be in my home for the pick up of the guitar at
that day. If you don't accept I will send it anyway with the French
post because the only thing it is doing in my home is taking up space.
As I said it is packed up and ready to go.

To sum up you said in your previous email that you will give me a
refund and that there was no problem. This is the only reason I
accepted to give it a try since there where a lot of things I was
displeased with in the time it took for the guitar to be ready. I
don't want the guitar and you specifically said in your site that you
will return the money if the customer is not pleased.

So I want a refund and no other solution is acceptable for me.

Best regards,
Georgios Zoulis"

I still haven't got a reply. I'll wait and see if I have a reply tomorrow otherwise I'm opening a dispute with PayPal. I know that for all the payments it has been more than 45 days but I am going to try anyway. If that doesn't work (which most probably it will not) I will like to ask the people in Europe and in France where I can go from there and to which authorities I must refer to. I have their address and phone number and to tell you the truth I am thinking of giving them a call tomorrow since they are working 12 hours per day even weekends.

Also hasn't anybody else receive their guitar already especially in Europe?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

That seems to be a great e-mail reply man.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Did you pay with Paypal and your credit card? If Paypal won't do shit, can always charge back from your credit card.


----------



## 13point9

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Did you pay with Paypal and your credit card? If Paypal won't do shit, can always charge back from your credit card.



really wish i had done this via credit card, I asked for a refund before the guitars even left the factory, so I have no guitar AND no money


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Maybe you can contact the Italian authorities and take some legal action.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

13point9 said:


> really wish i had done this via credit card, I asked for a refund before the guitars even left the factory, so I have no guitar AND no money



It's okay man, they might give you some of their cheap OEM pickups in exchange. 

What a joke.  

Sorry man, perhaps, like JJ said, you can talk to the Italian authorities. From what I understand countries in the EU have little tolerance for companies who deliver "poor" goods.


----------



## Edika

@MaxOfMetal: Thanks man. And in all the pictures I send them I highlighted the defects. Lets if the "pen" will be mightier than the sword.

@JJ Rodriguez: I paid with PayPal through my credit card which is actually a bank card with Mastercard status. I'll see what PayPal will reply, then I'll have to ask the bank if it can do a charge back for these transactions.

The stupid thing is that I jumped the gun in ordering this without searching more about them and after I registered in this forum and checked the horror stories I didn't ask for a refund immediately. And I was between this guitar and an Agile interceptor 27''. The reasons I chose Emperion was that they were in Europe so no extra expenses, the specs were good and I could choose the Bareknuckles.


----------



## capoeiraesp

So we're all getting screwed over now with this refund thing.
Time for the relevant authorities to be contacted.
Here's the last 48 hours for me.

I sent yet another request for refund to them on Thursday, right when the shit hit the fan. This was their initial response. 

"we are unable to refund the money to those who requested it. The best thing we can do is to send you the guitar you ordered with a pro setup and offer you a big discount on the next Emperion production which is already being processed and that won't have any flaw."

I responded on Friday with;

"The option you have provided me with is unacceptable. Given that the guitar is of different specifications (basswood, no graphite nut, different fret access etc.), this is false advertising. I am somewhat sympathetic to your situation, however, consider the people you're selling thing's to. I ordered this guitar months ago with the intention to record with it and use it live. You agreed several weeks ago to provide me with a full refund. Since I had to go on tour and had to buy a second guitar I needed to use money from my fiances wedding dress account! She was ok with it because I showed her the emails from you guys saying you would provide me with a full refund. Now i'm in the position where I do not have the money to place in the account and my fiance is going to be very unhappy with me.

I have several questions for you though.
- How is it you guys have no money and people working for free but you're able to hire a new technical team? 
- Why are you offering other people refund's 'in a timely manner' and i'm getting stuck with no option but to receive the guitar? (DIDN'T GET ANSWERED)
- If someone has been working 'without wage' for 10 hours a day for the last 2 months, obviously you must have been aware of these problems a long time ago? I'm a school teacher and I work a minimum of 10 hours a day 5 days a week and then spend most of my Sunday working on school stuff. It's pretty normal.
- Your rep in Japan has made the mistakes, so how come he's not coming up with the money or fix for the issue?

The only options I will accept are as follows:
- A full refund as per my previous emails
- A refund of my 2nd deposit and the guitar sent to me as ordered including my upgrades"


I momentarily woke at 6am this Saturday and checked my emails on my phone and got this response.

I will answer to your questions:

- the new technical team is formed by friends of us that shares with us the passion for musical instruments. So they give us their technical support in total, and I underline total friendship without receiving anything from us apart from esteem and respect.
- the refunds have been been processed until we were able to sustain that. (what the hell does this mean?)
- we were not aware of this problems two months ago. We face the problem once we received the guitars and see the mess happened. We always work ten hours a day because we try to make the best we can for Emperion. I'm sorry that being a teacher in your country means such a heavy burden. You are definitively more unlucky than italian teachers. This doesn't want to offend you, but wants to be an ironic consideration on our country (sigh!)
- If you are able to find him you will have our eternal gratidude. He disappeared with the money.

So back to my dues. The only solution I can offer you is this: I will send you the guitar you ordered as you ordered it and we can make a balance trade for the amount of your second deposit on another guitar yet available or one out of the next stock we will make.

Thank you. 

Best Regards
Francesco / Emperion Guitars


I'm not sure where to go from here. I've found the basic EU laws on internet purchases but since i'm in Australia I am protected differently. 

*7 days to cancel purchase for non-faulty goods*

In the EU, you have the right to cancel your online purchase within seven working days. 
This seven-day "cooling off" period begins on *the day when you receive your purchase*. 
You can choose to cancel your order *for any reason *within this timeframe - even if you simply changed your mind.
The seller must give you a refund within 30 days. This refund must include any shipping charges you paid when you made your purchase.
This applies whenever you buy goods outside a shop (for example by phone, fax, or mail order, as well as on the internet).
Although you have a right of refund, *you *will have to pay the postage costs of shipping goods bought online *back to the seller*.


Sorry for the massive message guys. I'm so pissed off right now and feeling very, very ripped off. Now that i'm outside of the 45 day protection period with PayPal i'm stuck and I've gotta tell the mrs sometime; she's gonna be stoked!


----------



## Edika

13point9 said:


> really wish i had done this via credit card, I asked for a refund before the guitars even left the factory, so I have no guitar AND no money



Did you receive an email that they can't give you a refund? 
If so then how are they processing the refunds for the people that asked for them already if they send the same email to everyone that has asked for one? And how many people have received the refund? I have seen the case of one person that has asked for it in this forum.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Great post capoeiraesp.

For those not inclined to read the whole thing:




capoeiraesp said:


> I'm not sure where to go from here. I've found the basic EU laws on internet purchases but since i'm in Australia I am protected differently.
> 
> 7 days to cancel purchase for non-faulty goods
> 
> In the EU, you have the right to cancel your online purchase within seven working days.
> This seven-day "cooling off" period begins on the day when you receive your purchase.
> You can choose to cancel your order for any reason within this timeframe - even if you simply changed your mind.
> The seller must give you a refund within 30 days. This refund must include any shipping charges you paid when you made your purchase.
> This applies whenever you buy goods outside a shop (for example by phone, fax, or mail order, as well as on the internet).
> Although you have a right of refund, you will have to pay the postage costs of shipping goods bought online back to the seller.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Edika, can you please post their address and phone details?
I'm thinking of giving them a call too.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

capoeiraesp said:


> Edika, can you please post their address and phone details?
> I'm thinking of giving them a call too.



You might want to receive that info via PM. Posting it here, out in the open, is somewhat frowned upon if that info isn't readily available.


----------



## Rick

Man, this is some fucked up shit.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Duly noted. Although business's are supposed to supply all of that info on their websites.


----------



## Edika

@capoeiraesp: PM'd


----------



## MaxOfMetal

capoeiraesp said:


> Duly noted. Although business's are supposed to supply all of that info on their websites.



There seems to be a lot of things business are supposed to due, that Emperion haven't.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Received thanks Ed.
I've sent my final ultimatum to them in an email.
Now to tell the mrs about all this bulllshit.


----------



## Edika

Dammit this is the last thing that I need right now, to worry if I am going to get my money back by potential scammers. I have shitloads of work and I have to run around for this crap because some other people don't do their work properly.

Though I might agree we were thoroughly warned by people in this forum. Lesson learned and whatever the outcome I'm not buying a guitar through internet again. Better pay more and have my mind at ease than go through this hassle all over.


----------



## mrhankey87

Hey guys, I need to make a statement about this:

first of all, I don't work for Emperion but I personally know Michele and Francesco, two truly passionate and dedicated guys. They were really screwed, believe it or not.

There was a third partner at Emperion, its role was to be the intermediary between the Korean factory and Emperion to assure the best fidelity reguarding specs, both technically and aestethically speaking. Guess what, he's disappeared now.

His poor communication with the factory (it's the same factory that builds some FAMOUS brands) lead to unforgivable errors, such as wrong woods etc etc. Also, the guitars arrived with licensed floyd rose instead of the originals, so Michele and Francesco had to pay additional 3000 euros to buy a stock of OFR to immediately replace the licensed ones, huge mistake by the factory.

I don't want to talk about refunds because it's just not my business and again I'm not related to Emperion, but I'm really sorry for everyone of you, I'd be really pissed off too if I were you.

Although I can say that I recently tried the newest models, the "wrong" ones, and they felt solid to me. Of course it's not "made in USA" quality, but to me they played and looked good for the price. The photos they've made were horrible, though there are supposed to be newer (and better) photos in the next days, if someone is interested.

Edika, the internet is full of highly trustable people, of course you've had a bad experience but this doesn't necessarily mean that buying thru the internet = scam. Sometimes shit happens, though. Hope all will end well for you.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mrhankey87 said:


> Hey guys, I need to make a statement about this:
> 
> first of all, I don't work for Emperion but I personally know Michele and Francesco, two truly passionate and dedicated guys. They were really screwed, believe it or not.
> 
> There was a third partner at Emperion, its role was to be the intermediary between the *Korean factory* and Emperion to assure the best fidelity reguarding specs, both technically and aestethically speaking. Guess what, he's disappeared now.
> 
> His poor communication with the factory (it's the same factory that builds some FAMOUS brands) lead to unforgivable errors, such as wrong woods etc etc. Also, the guitars arrived with licensed floyd rose instead of the originals, so Michele and Francesco had to pay additional 3000 euros to buy a stock of OFR to immediately replace the licensed ones, huge mistake by the factory.
> 
> I don't want to talk about refunds because it's just not my business and again I'm not related to Emperion, but I'm really sorry for everyone of you, I'd be really pissed off too if I were you.
> 
> Although I can say that I recently tried the newest models, the "wrong" ones, and they felt solid to me. Of course it's not "made in USA" quality, but to me they played and looked good for the price. The photos they've made were horrible, though there are supposed to be newer (and better) photos in the next days, if someone is interested.
> 
> Edika, the internet is full of highly trustable people, of course you've had a bad experience but this doesn't necessarily mean that buying thru the internet = scam. Sometimes shit happens, though. Hope all will end well for you.



Weren't they supposed to be made in Japan?


----------



## mrhankey87

MaxOfMetal said:


> Weren't they supposed to be made in Japan?



I didn't know about that. Didn't Michele himself write that these Emperions were made in south korea?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mrhankey87 said:


> I didn't know about that. Didn't Michele itself write that these Emperions were made in south korea?



Michele wrote the following in the e-mail sent to those on the Emperion mailing list as well as posted on their site:



> Needles to say that our reference person in *Japan* admitted his faults
> and granted us that such won't happen ever again. This doesn't change
> the fact that we simply got a different product from the one we
> developed and ordered.



So who's on first?


----------



## capoeiraesp

Korean made is news to me!


----------



## capoeiraesp

The fact of the matter is, providing refunds is the law.


----------



## mrhankey87

well, I don't really know, but if I can say that, it's the same factory that builds guitars for B.C. Rich and Washburn. 
I'm getting confused too by this right now


----------



## Edika

mrhankey87 said:


> Hey guys, I need to make a statement about this:
> 
> first of all, I don't work for Emperion but I personally know Michele and Francesco, two truly passionate and dedicated guys. They were really screwed, believe it or not.
> 
> There was a third partner at Emperion, its role was to be the intermediary between the Korean factory and Emperion to assure the best fidelity reguarding specs, both technically and aestethically speaking. Guess what, he's disappeared now.
> 
> His poor communication with the factory (it's the same factory that builds some FAMOUS brands) lead to unforgivable errors, such as wrong woods etc etc. Also, the guitars arrived with licensed floyd rose instead of the originals, so Michele and Francesco had to pay additional 3000 euros to buy a stock of OFR to immediately replace the licensed ones, huge mistake by the factory.
> 
> I don't want to talk about refunds because it's just not my business and again I'm not related to Emperion, but I'm really sorry for everyone of you, I'd be really pissed off too if I were you.
> 
> Although I can say that I recently tried the newest models, the "wrong" ones, and they felt solid to me. Of course it's not "made in USA" quality, but to me they played and looked good for the price. The photos they've made were horrible, though there are supposed to be newer (and better) photos in the next days, if someone is interested.
> 
> Edika, the internet is full of highly trustable people, of course you've had a bad experience but this doesn't necessarily mean that buying thru the internet = scam. Sometimes shit happens, though. Hope all will end well for you.



Well the photos I put may not have also been the best but they showed how sloppy the construction was. I mean it was less than 100 Euros sloppy. The construction of the V's guitar seems solid but the fret access is horrible. And the guitar was neck heavy even with the bigger body. These guys might have gotten screwed but why not send the guitars back to them and request for the actual ones? I don't know how easy that would be with an Asian country (Korea, Japan or China) but the thing that they send me belongs to a low quality B stock category.

And I know there are trustworthy people that sell products through the internet and all my purchases have been flawless. But finally buying guitars through internet is a difficult thing because you have not tested it to see that you like it or not. Maybe I over reacted a bit on that since I was sugarcoating your Marc Rizzo for sale and was thinking of buying it with the refund but as things are right now I am not sure I will get back my money and you don't have to comment on that.

What I am thinking though is to ask them to keep the guitar, send me the Bareknuckle set and refund the rest of the sum for the guitar. A pair of Warpigs is a good thing to have around!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mrhankey87 said:


> well, I don't really know, but if I can say that, it's the same factory that builds guitars for B.C. Rich and Washburn. I'm getting confused too by this right now



As far as I know, neither of those companies currently have a MIJ line of guitars, only Korean.


----------



## mrhankey87

Edika said:


> Well the photos I put may not have also been the best but they showed how sloppy the construction was. I mean it was less than 100 Euros sloppy. The construction of the V's guitar seems solid but the fret access is horrible. And the guitar was neck heavy even with the bigger body. These guys might have gotten screwed but why not send the guitars back to them and request for the actual ones? I don't know how easy that would be with an Asian country (Korea, Japan or China) but the thing that they send me belongs to a low quality B stock category.
> 
> And I know there are trustworthy people that sell products through the internet and all my purchases have been flawless. But finally buying guitars through internet is a difficult thing because you have not tested it to see that you like it or not. Maybe I over reacted a bit on that since I was sugarcoating your Marc Rizzo for sale and was thinking of buying it with the refund but as things are right now I am not sure I will get back my money and you don't have to comment on that.
> 
> What I am thinking though is to ask them to keep the guitar, send me the Bareknuckle set and refund the rest of the sum for the guitar. A pair of Warpigs is a good thing to have around!



I definitely agree, ask them the Warpigs! 
About my Rizzo, sorry dude I just sold it 2 hours ago to a friend of mine...


----------



## mrhankey87

MaxOfMetal said:


> As far as I know, neither of those companies currently have a MIJ line of guitars, only Korean.



yep!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mrhankey87 said:


> yep!



So according to Michele, Emperion guitars are made in Japan, and not made by ARAM in Korea. Though they're made by the same plant which makes B.C. Rich and Washburn guitars. Even though, those two companies only have USA ad Korean production currently. 

Sounds like someone is full of shit. (Not directed at you mrhankey87.)


----------



## Psionicist

Received mine today. Not overly thrilled. Sounds like they arent giving refunds, and I am afraid to ship them the damn thing back and then be out of money AND have no product. This might be an ok guitar with another $300 worth of work put into it


----------



## mrhankey87

MaxOfMetal said:


> So according to Michele, Emperion guitars are made in Japan, and not made by ARAM in Korea. Though they're made by the same plant which makes B.C. Rich and Washburn guitars. Even though, those two companies only have USA ad Korean production currently.
> 
> Sounds like someone is full of shit. (Not directed at you mrhankey87.)



Oh don't worry dude I know it's not directed to me maybe there's just a ton of confusion about it, I repeat I really didn't know about the japan thing. btw what is sure is that refunds have to be made asap.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Mrhankey, can u please assist in convincing the guys that refunds are needed? That would be appreciated since u know the guys.


----------



## Psionicist

I didnt know how to embed video here, so here is a youtube link



there is no sound on the video, else it would be filled with profanity

I highly doubt the bridge pickup is supposed to do this!


----------



## mrhankey87

capoeiraesp said:


> Mrhankey, can u please assist in convincing the guys that refunds are needed? That would be appreciated since u know the guys.



They perfectly know that refunds are needed, and although I could talk hours with them, the fact that I know them is not linked to the refunds. Ask them the refunds, write a ton of emails, I'm sure they are aware of the situation. I hope everything will be solved.

It's not my business, hope you understand. I have a lot of trouble by myself these days, really don't want to add more


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

No amount of convincing will fill up their bank account. Best course of action is to try and charge back the money from credit card, or contact authorities and take legal action. Other than that, people are shit out of luck. This is why 90% of the time, a new company offering custom/semi-custom instruments for cheap is a bad idea. It happened with Halo in the US, now it's Emperion. I'm sure there's other companies this has happened with as well.

Unfortunately, it may just be a case of buyer beware. I wouldn't stop trying to get your money back though.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Oh man, that's horrific.


----------



## Rotatous

Does anyone know if I'll be able to cancel my order? After seeing this I want out. NOW.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Nope. You're getting that guitar whether you like it or not, at this point.


----------



## Malacoda

I feel like crying  after reading all of the last 5 or so pages. Refusal to give refunds, raped fretboard wood, changed specifications, horrible fret jobs, bad routing? The guitars look worse than my first build which isn't very nice looking. I hope everyone who was victimized by this company gets a refund.

Oh, and Emperion? THIS is what AA grade flamed maple looks like:


----------



## Rotatous

> Nope. You're getting that guitar whether you like it or not, at this point.


^The money transaction just went through a few days ago. The guitar isn't finished by any means. I'm contacting them.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Rotatous said:


> ^The money transaction just went through a few days ago. The guitar isn't finished by any means. I'm contacting them.



Contact PayPal (and Credit Card company) ASAP!!!

Emperion isn't giving out refunds, so your only hope is PayPal refunding you the money or your Credit Card issuing a charge back. 

Needless to say, time is of the essence.


----------



## Rotatous

^Will do.


----------



## Ben.Last

Here's what needs to be done:

Those of you who have given Emperion any money for an order, regardless of how far through the process you are or what your location is, need to organize somehow. Start a facebook group... whatever. Just compile some list of how many people are affected by this.

Next, EVERYONE contact Paypal to ask for you money back.

Immediately after this EVERYONE who paid with a credit card contact your card company to have them charge it back.

Next, EVERYONE who is, for whatever reason, not able to get their money back that way needs to figure out who the proper authorities to contact are. This will be infinitely easier to do if you follow my first advice and ORGANIZE. All of these steps will go much better if you organize.


Fact of the matter is, regardless of whether they have the money, you all entered into a contract with this company that included a very specific return policy. A contract is binding. They MUST refund the money of everyone who wants within the guidelines set in that contract.


There's 2 possible outcomes if you all handle this in the correct way:

1) You all get refunded

2) They go out of business (hope for the first outcome because if this happens you'd all still be out your money)


----------



## ENGLShred7

Wow. This whole sitation is just absurd. Lern2swim is absolutely correct. A contract is a contract and when you sign into it, you agree to follow through with it, regardless of circumstances. I understand they have their hardships but it seems to me that they are more interested in covering their asses instead of looking out for their customers. This is a terrible practice in goodwill. Even if they do manage to survive this, their reputation is bound to be tarnished, given the amount of people on this site who will see this.
Something like this sure does make you appreciate a company like Agile.
Best of luck to all you guys trying to get your money back!


----------



## cyril v

mrhankey87 said:


> I didn't know about that. Didn't Michele himself write that these Emperions were made in south korea?



Honestly dude, you shouldn't have been endorsing the brand as you were since you don't know anything about what is actually going. I'm not trying to place any blame on you, but with remarks like: "_relax guys, quality is VERY good, because I've tried one. trust._".. 

Also, just noting this, but in your Emperion thread from back in january, I asked what defects the product had in your thread, and you kinda never answered that either. 
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/107111-today-ive-tried-an-emperion.html
-----------------
The whole Korea/Japan thing just shows that the company was 100% intent on being dishonest with their customers from the beginning... 

I mean, holy hell.. did you guys even get your "free" strap locks (or at least a hi-five)?

If I can offer any advice, it would be to follow what *Lern2swim* said, to the 'T'. You need to find everyone affected and make sure they stand up for themselves if they're dissatisfied instead of rolling over and letting these a**holes pull one over on them.



ENGLShred7 said:


> Wow. This whole sitation is just absurd. Lern2swim is absolutely correct. A contract is a contract and when you sign into it, you agree to follow through with it, regardless of circumstances. I understand they have their hardships but it seems to me that they are more interested in covering their asses instead of looking out for their customers. This is a terrible practice in goodwill. Even if they do manage to survive this, their reputation is bound to be tarnished, given the amount of people on this site who will see this.
> Something like this sure does make you appreciate a company like Agile.
> Best of luck to all you guys trying to get your money back!





Just because these guys dropped the ball... that doesn't mean the paying customer should get bent over (and take a shit guitar) and have to line themselves up to be bent over again (aka another shit guitar at a discount) just to get their due recourse.


----------



## Edika

So I just send them this email since I received no reply since yesterday to my previous email. Their answer will define my actions. If they agree to the refund I will send them a Paypal invoice and request the amount. If they don't comply then I am filing disputes on Paypal and am off to my bank on Monday. I still don't qualify them as scammers and still wish to think that they didn't want thinks to get to this point but with their current behaviour this is the only course of action that will get me positive results.

Hello,

I had no answer after my email yesterday insisting on the refund and pointing out the problems of the guitar. You have to agree with me that this can be classified as one of your b stock items. Other companies would classify as a defective b-stock item. I will not exaggerate and say that there is some structural problems like warped neck to force you to give me a refund but al the afore mentioned problems qualify for a refund. As I told you even if you install the correct pickups and change the nut you can't do anything about the upper fret access and the body shape, you can't do anything about the routing of the pickups and you would have to strip the colour and refinish the guitar and finally change the fretboard. This guitar, as it is, is not something I wish to keep even with the correct pickups. And even then it will have a very low resale value that will make me lose money.

Even if you didn't wish to be dishonest this is the image that you have given to the buyers. You can't blame the buyer for lack of communication, delaying to shipping dates by quoting false reasons, changing designs and attributing this to a planned decision, the uncertainty of the origin of the plant of creation of the guitars and several other things.

I still don't believe you are scammers and don't wish for your company to go under. When issues concerning the course of this months were arising concerning the quality and the practices of your company I was concerned but tried to keep a positive attitude and defended you in several occasions. 

If you want people to start trusting you must give some realistic responses and accept the requests for refunds. The fact that your partner screwed you and the specs of the guitars were altered in this degree doesn't mean that you have to not thoroughly inspect them and at least point out the cosmetic problems to the customer and give them a choice of whether to accept the guitar with a partial refund or not accept it at all. 

I don't want to have to escalate and would prefer to solve matters in a peaceful manner. However I will not wait for a long period of time before contacting Paypal, my credit card company and bank and if it comes down to that and the proper authorities since in these matters time is of essence in these issues. I expect my refund request to be processed as promised and in a reasonable amount of time

Georgios Zoulis


----------



## mrvomit

> Honestly dude, you shouldn't have been endorsing the brand as you were since you don't know anything about what is actually going



Well i did check too ,the guy just tried one guitar and reported his thoughts about .
Then more than "endorsing" ,
it was just forwarding people infos he found on emperion webpages,
with the same kind of hype you can find very commonly speaking about basses /guitars and so on.
Other people tried guitars in Italy before that big "issue",and manywre happy about abd shared similar feelings,by the way.


----------



## Snytbaggen

So my guitar will be sent out on monday, and I can't do anything to stop it. But since I ordered it with a satin finished that, according to them, they applied at their place I still hold a faint hope that they've paid more attention to mine because of the time it took to apply it. I'm probably wrong though, I'll find out on friday.


----------



## Edika

After the second email I send this morning I received this answer:

"Hi Georgios,

i understand your position and we will try as hard as we can to process your request, however do not speak about "false reasons" because we know what is the truth and we're telling nothing but, then you're free to believe it or not but that is.


i have already but in copy my colleague Francesco which making a refund file and as i said we'll try as hard as we can to make things go right


best regards
Michele"

I preferred not to opt and ask for the Bareknuckles and the rest of the money since it would get more complicated. Anyway I don't have a guitar I want to install them or can install them relatively easily so if I want them I'll buy them directly from Bareknuckle.


----------



## Kawrn

Kawrn said:


> Looks like Made In China woodwork to me. Is it what it is sold for ?



Told you.
Made In Japan wtf 


Don't go into huge mails with them, stick to the facts, couple lines.

Imho to get a refund open a paypal dispute stating item is not as described.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Problem for a lot of us is the final payment was made over 45 days ago.


----------



## mrhankey87

cyril v said:


> Honestly dude, you shouldn't have been endorsing the brand as you were since you don't know anything about what is actually going. I'm not trying to place any blame on you, but with remarks like: "_relax guys, quality is VERY good, because I've tried one. trust._"..
> 
> Also, just noting this, but in your Emperion thread from back in january, I asked what defects the product had in your thread, and you kinda never answered that either.
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/107111-today-ive-tried-an-emperion.html
> -----------------
> The whole Korea/Japan thing just shows that the company was 100% intent on being dishonest with their customers from the beginning...
> 
> I mean, holy hell.. did you guys even get your "free" strap locks (or at least a hi-five)?
> 
> If I can offer any advice, it would be to follow what *Lern2swim* said, to the 'T'. You need to find everyone affected and make sure they stand up for themselves if they're dissatisfied instead of rolling over and letting these a**holes pull one over on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because these guys dropped the ball... that doesn't mean the paying customer should get bent over (and take a shit guitar) and have to line themselves up to be bent over again (aka another shit guitar at a discount) just to get their due recourse.



I'm not endorsed by Emperion by any means. The guitar I've tried was from their first batch and was indeed good. 
btw even if I know them I'm definitely not taking anyone's defense. I TOTALLY AGREE with everyone of you reguarding the refunds etc etc.


----------



## cyril v

Sorry, I didn't mean endorsing in the traditional sense, but by definition. Also, I just found it weird that in that thread you answered just about everyones question but mine.


----------



## mrhankey87

cyril v said:


> Sorry, I didn't mean endorsing in the traditional sense, but by definition. Also, I just found it weird that in that thread you answered just about everyones question but mine.



You're right I forgot it


----------



## capoeiraesp

New pics are up
Index of /images/emperion_pics


----------



## Prydogga

Ugh, check out the way the TOM is set up, and the _great_ pinstripe quality.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Edika said:


> After the second email I send this morning I received this answer:
> 
> "Hi Georgios,
> 
> i understand your position and we will try as hard as we can to process your request, however do not speak about "false reasons" because we know what is the truth and we're telling nothing but, then you're free to believe it or not but that is.
> 
> 
> i have already but in copy my colleague Francesco which making a refund file and as i said we'll try as hard as we can to make things go right
> 
> 
> best regards
> Michele"
> 
> I preferred not to opt and ask for the Bareknuckles and the rest of the money since it would get more complicated. Anyway I don't have a guitar I want to install them or can install them relatively easily so if I want them I'll buy them directly from Bareknuckle.



They STILL didn't give you a definite answer dude. They dodged instead of saying "Yes, we WILL refund your money on such and such a date". Fuck these guys, I'd say do a charge back.


----------



## Prydogga

Flame on this doesn't look too bad.












This...is...Uhhh


----------



## Invader

Take a look at the high e string:

I know it's just a setup issue but it's kind of funny that the person taking the pics didn't even seem to notice the thing.


----------



## capoeiraesp

definately some mixed opinions on those. 
check the paint around the nut
http://emperionguitars.com/images/emperion_pics/1/_MG_1610.jpg
Have a look at the first fret round the 1st string. Not sure what to make of it. 
http://emperionguitars.com/images/emperion_pics/7/_MG_1658.jpg


----------



## Snytbaggen

capoeirasp: IIRC we ordered the same guitar, white with satin finish. I got a mail a few days ago that said that they have started to prepare my guitar and applying the satin finish, and yesterday they said that it was being packed. I suppose they never "satined" you guitar, since I found some pictures of it on their site:

















Look between the nut and first fret on the B-string. Crooked binding?


----------



## avenger

Its weird because some pictures look tasty and others are like DO NOT WANT! Oh well I would forget about trying to get a quality product from them and choose an established brand.


----------



## Edika

JJ Rodriguez said:


> They STILL didn't give you a definite answer dude. They dodged instead of saying "Yes, we WILL refund your money on such and such a date". Fuck these guys, I'd say do a charge back.


 
In my reply I gave them the info to initiate the collection, requested a reference number for the collection and asked them to give me an estimated date for the refund. I will see how they will handle things and then I will act. As I mentioned the banks in France give you a glorified bank card that is considered a Mastercard, so the funds have been drawn from my bank account. I am giving them a chance since they are starting to be more reasonable now but if they start with the nonsense again it's off to the bank!


----------



## capoeiraesp

Yep snyt, I did order it. I guess they're holdin off til they resolve my issue.


----------



## Psionicist

I sent them an email yesterday. I told them that I either wanted a refund, or the model that I ordered (not the one I received). Since they are working 10 hours a day (also weekends), I expect a reply, or off to the bank I go Monday.


----------



## Raphy00

Prydogga said:


> Ugh, check out the way the TOM is set up, and the _great_ pinstripe quality.



wow, i really hope this is just a really bad setup of the tom, and not the neck actually being higher at the higher strings then it is at the lower ones compared to the body... if anyone gets what im talking about


----------



## Psionicist

Just an update.
I got an email from Francesco at Emperion and they seem willing to work this situation out and made me a proposal that I think is fair. 
So despite my anger, it seems they are trying to step up to the plate.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Psionicist said:


> Just an update.
> I got an email from Francesco at Emperion and they seem willing to work this situation out and made me a proposal that I think is fair.
> So despite my anger, it seems they are trying to step up to the plate.



Details?


----------



## sublevel

yes detail please.

As I receive an email saying that

"as you've requested a pickup change those will go with a pro setup as well and it won't leave our headquarters if would have ANY defect, this i can assure 100%" 

but after all the default and what not I not fully sure. I have log paypal dispute since my second payment to them was within that 45 days period. Since I dont really have any experience on how the thing works maybe someone can enlighten me how the procedure goes.


----------



## 13point9

i know this is going to sound really odd, but looking through the pics they have put up its seems like its only the 7s they have had major issues with, looking at the LP in particular it seems ok (i think the PU rings help a lot)...

I know no one here ordered 6's but hopefully the fact they seem ok will mean the company won't go under and we will all get our money back...


----------



## Edika

So I received this email from the other guy in Emperion, Francesco:

"Ok for the pick. So if you want the money we'll accomplish this request. I have to tell you that you will have some time to wait. I'm deeply sorry for that, but finally you will receive the money."

My reply was:

"Hello Francesco,

So I'll wait for the UPS guy on Tuesday. Can you give me a time
estimate of when I will receive the money? I don't want to keep
sending you emails requesting for a refund all the time and would like
for you to give me a target date that would be reasonable. I don't
like uncertainties in these matters and your reply hasn't put exactly
my mind to rest.

Best regards,
Georgios"

I'll wait for the reply to get an estimate. I have until Monday to decide my course of action. Just in case I'll find the bank records for the transaction and prepare my trip to the bank.

@Psioniscist: I was thinking of doing something something like that but they actually have to give me a new guitar that will not have these faults and they can't actually fix the boy shape for the V. I thought of asking them to send me an earlier Norax model since they seemed to be quite good but I was really disappointed by their earlier responses and thought that if again the quality of the guitar was bad I would not be able to return the guitar since I would be away. And if getting the refund would be difficult now imagine then. Also the pickups in my guitar did the same thing and I realised that to blame was the big piece of foam beneath the pickups and probably the badly routed screw posts.
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/psionicist.html


----------



## Psionicist

Hi,

Sorry, I was on the way out the door when I posted the last update.

Francesco sent an email stating they were willing to provide me a new set of pickups free of charge, or we could work out some kind of special price/arrangement in terms of the other equipmnt/gear they stock (amps, footswitches, etc).

Now, before you shout "BOGUS", listen to my rationale:

The pickups (especially the bridge being loose) was my main beef. I had said in a previous post that if I could put about $300 into the guitar, it would be good, and I estimated that is what new pickups plus some bench time for a guitar tech would cost. 
They are going to get me the pickups (so 2/3 of that cost that I figured), and I'll put another 100 in (more or less, depending on bench time/labor), and biggest problem solved.
*I have no problem with the upper fret access on the Scorpius. I can easily hit the 24th fret and I have small hands.

Sure, there are still issues with:
Binding not as advertised, Basswood instead of Mahogany, having shiny black instead of transparent black...however;

I chose to take the pickups and I'll have some work done to improve the guitar. 
That choice allows me not to have to deal with the following issues:
- Shipping the guitar back and arranging for the UPS pickup and all the stuff I would need to do/take off work to get done.
- I dont have to worry about waiting an unspecified period of time to get a refund, or dwell on IF I would get a refund in the event that they go under. Again, I could have gone to the bank and figured out how to reverse the charges on the Credit Card, but thats time off work, etc.
- I never expected this would be the greatest instrument I own. I have an Agile custom that I am very happy with. This is my back-up 7 that, because of no trem, I can experiment with other tunings a lot more easily. 

*Sure, in theory, Emperion should have done it right in the first place,* but that is not where we are at now, and if you received damaged goods like Edika, you should just get the full refund. However, this guitar , although not to the specs advertised, will serve its purpose. Also, I play left-handed, so finding left-handed guitars (7s even more so) is not easy for me ( I have 3 Agiles already, a 6,7, and 8). 

I just dont need this kind of stress. I dont know if other forum members will think I'm being a "sellout" or "wuss" or whatever. 
-I got the guitar for 350 EU. 
-I'm getting free pickups for it that are 2/3 the price of the guitar. 
-I got an apology within a day of my email to them and a proposal from them to rectify the situation. 
I am not denying that there were errors , that they probably panicked, and that they could use better people in QC, Public Relations, and Human Resources/Admin, but I get the feeling that these guys are trying to make it right with what they have. 

Its not the IDEAL solution, but I think its the best FOR ME under the circumstances, and the one I can live with, without harboring an ongoing resentment.


----------



## 13point9

^ good stuff man if thats what you want out of it then its all fair game


----------



## Psionicist

Oh, and if for whatever reason this proposal that I am accepting from Emperion doesnt work out, I'll make a thread called 
"I am the dummy" and all SS members can post "Told you so" (though I would expect and desrve much more colorful comments)


----------



## 13point9

Psionicist said:


> Oh, and if for whatever reason this proposal that I am accepting from Emperion doesnt work out, I'll make a thread called
> "I am the dummy" and all SS members can post "Told you so" (though I would expect and desrve much more colorful comments)



honestly think that in this forum people would be more sympathetic than accusatory about something like this, maybe on UG or HC its a bit different though hahaha


----------



## Edika

The last reply I got was that they will absolutely refund the money as soon as they can but can't give me an accurate estimate due to the situation and all emails I will send concerning that matter will be replied. My cold logic and my sentimentality are battling each other. 
As usual shit like this is happening when I am at the most stressed situations and got absolutely no time to worry about stuff like this. I will have to think calmly what is the best course of action at this point to resolve the matter as soon as possible and not have to worry about it any more.


----------



## Rotatous

> However, this is not affecting the operations of our custom
> instruments workshop which is operating normally.



Before I contact them, I want to know what this means, because I did order a custom.


----------



## AhsanU

I got a refund already, just waiting on a refund of the deposit at this point. I contacted them, let's see what they say.

They asked me to open a dispute in paypal for the first refund, not sure what's going on with the initial deposit refund.


----------



## capoeiraesp

They seem to have changed their game plan a bit. I've somewhat resolved my issue with them.


----------



## Edika

capoeiraesp said:


> They seem to have changed their game plan a bit. I've somewhat resolved my issue with them.



Can you give details more details? So far I only have their reassurance that I will get the money back. I want to believe that but at the same time I am weary.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Edika said:


> Can you give details more details? So far I only have their reassurance that I will get the money back. I want to believe that but at the same time I am weary.



Seems like they're just throwing pickups at the problem. 

Not sure how they plan on buying everyone pickups and giving all kinds of discounts if they're too hurting for cash to give REAL refunds. 

Until someone actually receives the goods they're promised (which Emperion obviously SUCK at) I wouldn't trust them. If they fucked things up so bad once, who's to say they won't send the wrong pickups, or if they'll deliver in a reasonable time? 

This whole thing seems like a way for them to stall even further.


----------



## Snytbaggen

MaxOfMetal said:


> Seems like they're just throwing pickups at the problem.
> 
> Not sure how they plan on buying everyone pickups and giving all kinds of discounts if they're too hurting for cash to give REAL refunds.
> 
> Until someone actually receives the goods they're promised (which Emperion obviously SUCK at) I wouldn't trust them. If they fucked things up so bad once, who's to say they won't send the wrong pickups, or if they'll deliver in a reasonable time?
> 
> This whole thing seems like a way for them to stall even further.



If they already have the pickups = cheaper for them right now since they've already bought them and , if you know what I mean. Same thing with giving discounts on amps and stuff, but in those cases they will actually get some money they can use for refunds, although they're losing money on the stuff their selling.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Snytbaggen said:


> If they already have the pickups = cheaper for them right now since they've already bought them and , if you know what I mean. Same thing with giving discounts on amps and stuff, but in those cases they will actually get some money they can use for refunds, although they're losing money on the stuff their selling.



I'm just saying that given their track record, you may want to consider what _could_ happen before saying yes. 

What guarantee do you have that they'll finally come through? 

They "delivered" the guitars roughly 5 month late. 
They have gone against the warranty info posted on their site.
They did not deliver the guitars ordered.
They have had communication issues.
They have been giving contradicting info regarding where the guitars are made.
They knowingly shipped damaged goods.
They did not see fit to fully informing customers of the changed specs before shipping.
They have described their customers as "impatient" after failing to deliver anywhere NEAR the specified time.


The list goes on. 

What have they done recently that makes you still believe in what they will deliver?


----------



## Snytbaggen

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm just saying that given their track record, you may want to consider what _could_ happen before saying yes.
> 
> What guarantee do you have that they'll finally come through?
> 
> They "delivered" the guitars roughly 5 month late.
> They have gone against the warranty info posted on their site.
> They did not deliver the guitars ordered.
> They have had communication issues.
> They have been giving contradicting info regarding where the guitars are made.
> 
> The list goes on.
> 
> What have they done recently that makes you still believe in what they will deliver?



I never said that - I fully agree with you. But you wondered how they could offer stuff as pickups and discounts and not refunds, and I just gave a possibility. If we assume that they really don't have money right now but have some pickups lying around and the stuff in their webshop in stock I can see how they are able offer that but no money refunds. That said, I still agree with you.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Snytbaggen said:


> I never said that - I fully agree with you. But you wondered how they could offer stuff as pickups and discounts and not refunds, and I just gave a possibility. If we assume that they really don't have money right now but have some pickups lying around and the stuff in their webshop in stock I can see how they are able offer that but no money refunds. That said, I still agree with you.



Gotcha. 

That was less directed at you, and more so those considering the offer that Emperion has made. 

Has anyone seen proof that they even have the pickups?


----------



## Psionicist

Max,

I understand all your points and agree that people should be concerned.
What I have is less than scientific.
Despite what has happened, I have hope. 

I know what they say about hope in one hand, shit in the other and see what fills up faster....in my case that would be hope. I hope all the time, and a lot of the time,(though not always) the things I want develop from that. 

I think people will be able to gauge Emperion by their actions concerning Edikas, capoeiraesp, snytbaggen, and my experiences as they unfold over the next few weeks. I guess inadvertantly we will be the mine canaries. 

Yes, it sucks that there is no instant fix (or appears to be none)

In terms of business, I was wondering along the lines of Snytbaggen, maybe they have a credit line with Bare Knuckle,etc (their suppliers) and are going to try using that to fix their current problems (and avoid a LOT of bad PR) and in the meantime try to generate some more $ for refunds and whatever else they are working on. Thats completely a guess on my part.

If it doesnt work out, then I will go into TOTAL DICK mode,which will not be confined to these forums. Frankly, thats always an option. Perhaps its masochistic of me, but I am willing to put my neck out there and give them the chance to try and fix it. 

I am not advising any one else to accept what I am accepting. If you want your money back and thats the only thing you will consider, go for it. I understand and really hope you get it back, and hope to see your NGD post once you spend it, or at least a follow-up to know you got your refund and are no longer worried/stressed.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Guys, I'm really not trying to shit on your day. I really feel for you fellas, and I REALLY, TRULY hope that you guys can be made whole, and within a decent amount of time. 

I just fear that someone is going to buy an Emperion on the basis of "well, if I don't like it I can get some free pickups and a deal on gear". I know that sounds silly, but I've seen some naive fellows fall for some silly stuff. (Not talking about you guys. ) 

I just want everything to be voiced so that everyone who reads this thread tomorrow will have everything out there to be considered. 

Best of luck fellows. I really mean it.


----------



## Psionicist

I hear ya Max and I hope if someone is considering,they read the thread, or at least ask and some of us can highlight it for them.


----------



## Edika

So far I have seen 5 people including me in this forum that have asked for a refund. If there are more please correct me. By the guitars they have sold the money they should have received from customers is aprox. 135.000 Euros (¬300 guitars x 450 euros mean value of guitar). I will say that the guitars themselves with additional customisations and shipping charges to them and to the customers cost them 2/3 of the above price (maybe an overestimation). So there are left 45000 Euros. From these we can subtract the 3000 Euros mentioned for buying OFR for the guitars so there are left 42000 Euros.

Now it depends how much from this profit is immediately taxed, what the moving to the new headquarters cost them and buying new equipment along with the money the other partner allegedly stole (or maybe he took just the deference from providing inferior specs). Then I am sure they invested a sum of these money to creating a stock of amps, cabinets and pickups and of course the cost for running the business for these months. Those I can't calculate. But I am sure not a lot of money is left, maybe around 20000 euros, that maybe enough to refund some people but then you don't have a lot of money left to refund everybody that will be unsatisfied with the product and get scared shit less by our reports on the quality so far.

I know most of you will not agree with me but follow my line of logic for a while. I am not trying to defend them and I want my money back. I am just trying to make an analysis of the situation. If we accept the fact that they got screwed by their partner and they are actually decent guys trying to deliver what the promised then consider these thoughts. If they were just out to scam people and give them bad quality products they wouldn't try to expand as they have so far, going to new headquarters, introducing new brands of pickups, making deals as distributors to some companies and selling products of other well known companies. If they were expecting products like the first batch of Emperion guitars which seemed to be of the quality they advertised that the new instruments were supposed to be then it would be highly probable that the customers would be satisfied and chose to expand (very dumb move in my opinion). This means that they trusted the responsible for the communication with the Asian plant quite a lot. Obviously the delay in production of the guitars would be understandable if they in the beginning they ordered like 50 guitars and then suddenly the order to 300, especially if this plant is building guitars for major companies. For better or for worse small business take the back burner over major companies. It is a possibility that the same guy (let's assume) responsible went to the factory to inspect the quality of the wood (you remember the update?) but actually gave them the different specs. The people in Italy (the two guys Michele and Francesco) most probably paid a deposit or a big amount of the money for the creation of the guitars and were expecting to have the guitars that they ordered. All this time customers are getting rightly agitated by waiting 5 months, the communication by their part is non-existent and there are discussions about the actual origin of the guitars. In the mean time these guys are trying to grow their business and spent a significant amount of the capital they have without having the end product in their hands and probably no updates from the factory with images. If they had some photos from the factory they may have noticed the difference in the Norax shape and inquired about this to their representative. He might have given them the reason for the bigger body and more sustain given to us when most probable was a mistake in the dimensions by the factory. But the guitars are almost ready, they don't look so bad with the bigger body (the rest I thing where ok in the shape) and to make new V guitars now, which I don't think the factory was going to do for free, would take several months more which would enrage the Norax customers more. If the alleged guy responsible for the wrong specs had already disappeared or still giving them wrong info then even if they were concerned about the end product the only thing they could do is what for the guitars and hope they are ok aside from the body size of the V's. I know you guys believe they should have been absolutely honest with these matters but if they were then everybody would jump ship or at least most of the customers leaving them with no possibility to pay them back, bankrupting the company and completely tarnishing their name. When the incident with the green Norax had arisen and they posted the photos I am sure that they saw more discrepancies from their original designs that they tried to justify some how. The new pictures show that the guitar is not as horrific as the original photos send to the potential buyer (was it earworm?) but still it is quite different. As I mentioned before quality control in 3 days by 2 to 3 persons for over 300 guitars was to be expected. Especially for my guitar when they informed my guitar was ready for shipping I though that the Bareknuckles were installed in the factory or they send it with the stock pups. I don't know how aware they were about all the defects of each guitar and what is their organisation system in checking if the specs were ok but as I said quality control in 3 days by 2 to 3 people is a joke, as it has proven.

Now as a tactic to delay refunds and try to resolve the issues with customers in other ways as the situation has become is not a bad move in their part and shows that they have some business sense in them. They are trying to find ways to keep afloat at this moment and offering easy refunds to everybody will make them go bankrupt. If we assume that all of the above is true and they are honest people and not pricks then I would like to see that they refund or compensate in some form all of the people that have complaints without going bankrupt or at least going bankrupt afterwards.

If what I have written in the above paragraphs is just my imagination and they thought that the buyers were that stupid that they would fall for this then I prefer to wait a bit and get my money or some other form f compensation and not see them go bankrupt which would mean we lose our money and some people get stuck with sub par guitars.

My sense is that the truth is somewhere in between and mostly in the first part of my post, that they got over their head and expanded based on the potential product they would offer and now they are trying to keep their business and bring back some credibility in their name. I want my money back and I want the rest of the people that request their money back to get it. We have to pressure them to give refunds as much as we can, but I would not feel comfortable if my actions (speaking with the bank, making disputes with Paypal) achieve only my personal goal to take back only MY money (if 30 people do charge backs and disputes with Paypal it would cost them around 14000 Euros which I am not sure they have right now) and with the current economic crisis in the world. I'll go Monday or Tuesday morning in the bank and see if they can do anything and if yes I'll give them a bit of time to come through. I can't find the contact information in PayPal to send them an email about the situation and see if something can be done.

Edit: Forgive the grammar and typos since it was along post and didn't read it twice


----------



## Enselmis

Jesus christ, wall of text much? ^

Good luck to anyone who's ordered one of these. I really hope this company comes through in the end.


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## Edika

Enselmis said:


> Jesus christ, wall of text much? ^
> 
> Good luck to anyone who's ordered one of these. I really hope this company comes through in the end.



Hahaha yeah I know. It was going to be some thoughts on the matter and ended up as a huge post!


----------



## cyril v

If they can't do refunds... tell them to give you the full amount of your refund/shipping + a nice discount towards their Mesa/Peavey/ENGL amps. That'd be win-win for most people, not likely to happen, but either way 

I personally would be getting a refund whether or not they want to do it via charge back or paypal dispute if I were in any of your shoes.


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## Edika

cyril v said:


> If they can't do refunds... tell them to give you the full amount of your refund/shipping + a nice discount towards their Mesa/Peavey/ENGL amps. That'd be win-win for most people.



I was thinking of asking for the Orange dual terror or the Vox Nightrain+the Warpig set. These are roughly what they owe me.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Sucks to be them, but they got in bed with a sketchy dude and caught AIDS of the business.

I'd get a refund just on principle. Businesses that can't deliver (for whatever reason) go out of business. It's the nature of rolling the dice on opening a business. You win some and you lose some, and Emperion lost. The guys might not be scammers, but it's not anyone's responsibility to keep their business afloat.

All that really matters is that you're happy with the resolution they offer, but that's just my perspective.


----------



## Edika

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Sucks to be them, but they got in bed with a sketchy dude and caught AIDS of the business.
> 
> I'd get a refund just on principle. Businesses that can't deliver (for whatever reason) go out of business. It's the nature of rolling the dice on opening a business. You win some and you lose some, and Emperion lost. The guys might not be scammers, but it's not anyone's responsibility to keep their business afloat.
> 
> All that really matters is that you're happy with the resolution they offer, but that's just my perspective.



You are right JJ this is the nature of business. As I said in my huge post they made the classic mistake most aspiring businessmen do, they spend money they didn't have without establishing a stable product line that brings profit. When I saw the updates of them moving to new headquarters and investing money on infrastructure without actually providing an end product I was puzzled by their move but kind of reassured that they wouldn't disappear with the deposits.
Shit happens and if they do stay afloat it will be hard to convince people to trust them again. 

Maybe if we start yelling hard enough, Kurt might listen and open a Rondo subsidiary in Europe


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## 13point9

Edika said:


> Maybe if we start yelling hard enough, Kurt might listen and open a Rondo subsidiary in Europe



I think kurt should just take them over get rid of the name and start Rondo Europe from its ashes...


----------



## MJS

Unfortunately, these assholes are definitely going to get away with it, because people are letting them stall and they're settling for shitty compensation after being fraudulently sold piles of garbage. That's exactly what they counted on people doing.

People can do what they want, but make no mistake about it: Settling for ANYTHING less that a full refund, like discounts, garbage parts, or anything else... is letting them shit all over you and get away with it. 

Is part of the free parts payoff going to include a body that isn't basswood? What about the pickups... more sweatshop BKP knock-offs?  

And "pro setup" better mean cash to go pay a pro, because if these incompetent scammers can't even assemble a guitar right, there's no chance they can perform anything that would resemble a pro setup. 

They can't build guitars and they are unethical scammers. 

They should be getting *FLOODED* with charge-backs and complaints NOW, *before the money is gone (hidden)* and no one gets shit. Everyone should be following Lern2Swim's advice before it's too late.

Playing email tag with them is nothing more than them stalling.

These dirtbags couldn't match the quality of a $189 Douglas if their lives depended on it.


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## markbolwell54

13point9 said:


> I think kurt should just take them over get rid of the name and start Rondo Europe from its ashes...


 
I'm with you guys on this! Agiles in Europe! Hell yeah!


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## JaeSwift

markbolwell54 said:


> I'm with you guys on this! Agiles in Europe! Hell yeah!



IMO Let's all spam Kurt with e-mails. NAO.


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## Edika

I just filed disputes for all three payments with Paypal and will find the records for the transactions and go to the bank tomorrow. I made them a proposal for them to pay me the first two payments (deposit and pickups) now and leave the last one for a bit later but I changed my mind. Even if Paypal doesn't do anything at last there will be another official record that will show a dissatisfied customer. If they have given me a refund date I would have waited but uncertain promises of refunds are not enough.

I don't know how the dispute system works so if someone can enlighten me I would be grateful. Does Paypal decide if you are right and gives you the refund by drawing money from the account of the seller without asking for permission? Or they contact him to hear his side of the story and allow him to make right? Anyway if they tell me they can't do anything I'll call them and try to explain the situation.


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## Psionicist

I dont remember if you are in that 45 day window or not (certainly not for the deposit). I had filed previously with Paypal and got an instant denial because of the time frame, so you may have to call them directly.


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## Edika

Psionicist said:


> I dont remember if you are in that 45 day window or not (certainly not for the deposit). I had filed previously with Paypal and got an instant denial because of the time frame, so you may have to call them directly.



I am for sure out of the 45 days for the whole amount. I will see what Paypal will reply. I got a reply from Francesco that he will try to give me the deposit and the money for the Bareknuckles this week and if not notify me before. I told them that I filed the disputes with Paypal and that when I receive the payment i will immediately cancel them when I receive the money.


----------



## tekkadon d

i only owe like 300 on it i think its worth it for what ti is and the new pics they sent out in the email look pretty good i thought.
also has anyone got one yet? i havent been on in ages


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## MaxOfMetal

tekkadon d said:


> i only owe like 300 on it i think its worth it for what ti is and the new pics they sent out in the email look pretty good i thought.
> also has anyone got one yet? i havent been on in ages



Dude. Read the last several pages.


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## tekkadon d

did you see that one comment thought its alot of reading lol


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## MaxOfMetal

tekkadon d said:


> did you see that one comment thought its alot of reading lol





Trust me. Read through. So much has happened in the last few days.


----------



## Snytbaggen

Okay, so i got a tracking number today and was told it would show up later today. But the tracking number seems really long, and in the format AAA000000000000000000. I'm not really experienced with DHL tracking numbers, but from what I've gathered at their site it should be a 10-digit number. IIRC some other people here have received the wrong number, but gotten the right one when asked for it?


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## Raphy00

hey, received mine yesterday, not too shabby actually, looks good, doesnt play too badly either.

A couple of concerns though. There is a dead note on the lowest string 8th fret, what causes these? can it be fixed?

and theres also this. Did they just dye a rosewood board ebony and miss this spot????


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## Snytbaggen

Made some adjustments to it so it would be easier to see.






What model is it?


----------



## capoeiraesp

You got more pics raph?


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## Emperoff

Those fret ends...


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## Raphy00

capoeiraesp said:


> You got more pics raph?



yea sure, anything specific? i got a camera on me now so if u want a pic of anything in particular i can take it.

Its the norax-II-7-ST whiteblack

does anyone know why the fretboard has that defect in it?


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## jymellis

im no wood expert but it may just be a light spot in the ebony. not all ebony is BLACK.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Just take a few pics so people have an overview of how your particular guitar came.


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## capoeiraesp

Any pics will do. 
To answer your fretboard question... It's an emperion. I've never seen pin holes like that before.


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## Fred the Shred

I will post an unbiased review once mine gets in.


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## Raphy00

Alright just got a few pics here, the guitar came very well packed, was very happy with the look and the hard case. The pickups were a little weak but i will probably be putting in something a little better soon. also there was a little crack in the fretboard but i couldnt get it in a photo. 

i am however still discussing things with Michelle because of the defect, body size difference and other issues.

Overall i am a little on the fence with this guitar, i am going to set it up better because there is a little fret buzz. I think i can make it into a pretty good guitar, and for the price i dont think its too bad because where im from i would be getting a 50 or 100 series esp ltd for around the same price.


----------



## sublevel

Raphy00 said:


> Alright just got a few pics here, the guitar came very well packed, was very happy with the look and the hard case. The pickups were a little weak but i will probably be putting in something a little better soon. also there was a little crack in the fretboard but i couldnt get it in a photo.
> 
> i am however still discussing things with Michelle because of the defect, body size difference and other issues.
> 
> Overall i am a little on the fence with this guitar, i am going to set it up better because there is a little fret buzz. I think i can make it into a pretty good guitar, and for the price i dont think its too bad because where im from i would be getting a 50 or 100 series esp ltd for around the same price.



Is it neck heavy? I ordered one same as your but install with Blackout and I hate neck dive.


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## Raphy00

sublevel said:


> Is it neck heavy? I ordered one same as your but install with Blackout and I hate neck dive.



yea it is, noticed that as soon as i strapped up.


----------



## Psionicist

When I first looked at the pic (before enlarging it), I thought "HORIZON" was spelled wrong, then realized the booklet is upside down


----------



## Snytbaggen

To you guys that have gotten your guitar: What format was your tracking number in? Mine is JJD000000000000000000 and it seems very long, almost too long...


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## Psionicist

I am in the USA, so mine came from ups.
It was alphanumeric and was 18 "digits" long
Ex. 1WG4N4990012543554


----------



## Borinthas

Mine also starts with JJD and long like yours. I mean your number should be correct.


----------



## Andromalia

Back from Hellfest and reading all this, sigh. 
Since I paid through Paypal with my credit card I'm going to the bank and asking for a chargeback tomorrow as: 
1) I still dont have any guitar
2) My refund email request was plainly ignored for 10 days.
3) I don't have any trust left.
4) I don't want a basswood guitar in this price range anyway.


----------



## Hollowway

Raphy00 said:


> yea sure, anything specific? i got a camera on me now so if u want a pic of anything in particular i can take it.



Can you get a pic of the black paint - white paint margin? I'm curious to see if the tape line looks good or not.


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## Andromalia

Ok got an automated answer from paypal that they don't do anything for this case.
so: 
-Bank tomorrow for CC callback.
-Contacted Facebook warning them the emperion page was false advertising at the very best, scamming at the worst.
-Contacting a friend who is knowledgeable in consumer laws to get to know if I can get them to compensate in addition to what they owe me, including but not limited to, interest for the money they kept for 6 months.

I can be very nice, but ignoring my refund request for 10 days wasn't the wise thing to do. Really. The blatantly ignorant emails shown here do not help, either. White graphite omg. "Oh the guitar is ok we just changed the wood".


----------



## Edika

So far they arranged to pick up the guitar back to Italy. The UPS came yesterday. They accepted to refund my two initial payments, deposit and pickups, this week. For my part Paypal closed all my disputes immediately since the 45 days have passed on all payments but I received an automatic email that they will contact them. I am not sure what that means exactly or if they will do anything. Problem is that tomorrow I am leaving for one month from France and didn't and don't have time to go to the bank about this so I'll have to see how they handle it and then deal with it when I get back. So this buys them more time to try to come through.


----------



## AhsanU

Well guys, at this point, I'm rather fed up.

I originally wanted to use the refund money to fix my car, and it would appear that I could probably manage to pull some money out of my ass for that. So at this point, I think I'd rather send the partial refund back to them, and just get the guitar and live with it. I think it's better than being completely screwed and not receive the rest of my money (which is a very big possibility at this point).

What do you guys think? I really don't know where I'll find a decent 7 string V at this price. I'm not a fan of the Agile Hornet because of the upper fret access, but the Norax-II 7 has the same access as a Jackson KV2, so I'm definitely used to it.

I just want a damned 7 string guitar at this point! I haven't had one in a while and I miss having one.


----------



## Ketzer

AhsanU said:


> Well guys, at this point, I'm rather fed up.
> 
> I originally wanted to use the refund money to fix my car, and it would appear that I could probably manage to pull some money out of my ass for that. So at this point, I think I'd rather send the partial refund back to them, and just get the guitar and live with it. I think it's better than being completely screwed and not receive the rest of my money (which is a very big possibility at this point).
> 
> What do you guys think? I really don't know where I'll find a decent 7 string V at this price. I'm not a fan of the Agile Hornet because of the upper fret access, but the Norax-II 7 has the same access as a Jackson KV2, so I'm definitely used to it.
> 
> I just want a damned 7 string guitar at this point! I haven't had one in a while and I miss having one.



Hm... Have you played a hornet 7? If you have, and don't like the access, we must have vastly different techniques...


----------



## AhsanU

Ketzer said:


> Hm... Have you played a hornet 7? If you have, and don't like the access, we must have vastly different techniques...



Unfortunately, I haven't. And based on where the body and the neck meet, I'm fairly confident I wouldn't be able to play comfortably. And as far as techniques go - we all have different techniques! I play a lot of sliding styled licks that require my little finger to slide from the 19th to the 22nd and so forth. It just becomes rather taxing when my little finger bumps into the body, which is why I'm fairly confident that I wouldn't be able to play a Hornet.


----------



## Snytbaggen

Borinthas said:


> Mine also starts with JJD and long like yours. I mean your number should be correct.



Yeah, it works now. Suddenly this feels very relevant (make sure to read the alt-text by hovering your mouse over the comic).


----------



## Ketzer

AhsanU said:


> Unfortunately, I haven't. And based on where the body and the neck meet, I'm fairly confident I wouldn't be able to play comfortably. And as far as techniques go - we all have different techniques! I play a lot of sliding styled licks that require my little finger to slide from the 19th to the 22nd and so forth. It just becomes rather taxing when my little finger bumps into the body, which is why I'm fairly confident that I wouldn't be able to play a Hornet.



Hm. I'm headed down to the practice space today, I'll take a couple of shots of mine in action. I'm not trying to say it's gonna work for you, but I thought I was making a compromise when I got my Agile, and It's worked out so much better than I'd anticipated.


----------



## Edika

Raphy00 said:


> Alright just got a few pics here, the guitar came very well packed, was very happy with the look and the hard case. The pickups were a little weak but i will probably be putting in something a little better soon. also there was a little crack in the fretboard but i couldnt get it in a photo.
> 
> i am however still discussing things with Michelle because of the defect, body size difference and other issues.
> 
> Overall i am a little on the fence with this guitar, i am going to set it up better because there is a little fret buzz. I think i can make it into a pretty good guitar, and for the price i dont think its too bad because where im from i would be getting a 50 or 100 series esp ltd for around the same price.



How are the routings of the pickups? Do they seem rougly cut. How is the paint on the fins and in general? Mine was very badly painted in the fins and had also dings. Do your pickups wobble back and forth?

Concerning the defect there is Ebony that is not completely back as other posters have mentioned and if it is only the color then aside form the aesthetics it should not be something serious.


----------



## 13point9

hey guys update after various amounts of mailing back and forth I will be getting my deposit back by the 3rd July and the 2nd payment by the 15th... hopefully


----------



## Andromalia

Ok, update. got hold of Francesco by email, we came to an understanding about a refund and basically the story is they're in deep shit. Don't want to put a drowning guy's head under the water either so I accepted to be refunded over 3 weeks, starting this week, warning him I'll chargeback at the slightest delay, and educating him to the fact that chargeback fees are charged to the offending company by the bank, not to the owner of the card. He didn't seem to be aware of that and it had some impact in hastening decision and feedback from their part.
We'll see tomorrow.


----------



## jymellis

Andromalia said:


> Ok, update. got hold of Francesco by email, we came to an understanding about a refund and basically the story is they're in deep shit. .


 
are they having alot of returns besides other ss.org members? did he say anything that you would like to share about the shit they are in?


----------



## Andromalia

Nope, and in their shoes that's not info I would disclose, either.
In my opinion the mistake they did was accepting too many orders and having to build 300 guitars instead of a more reasonable say 50 run, and having to scramble to find them and have them built. Quantity got it over quality and they got screwed by the middleman.
HArd lesson to learn but I hope they got it. Even established guitar companies don't make 300+ guitar special runs, even when they already have years of experience and all the reliable contacts to do so.
And if I read between the lines properly, someone actually willingly ordered lower quality stuff and pocketed the difference.


----------



## earworm

that sucks, yeah hopefully they'll get it right next time. My guitar should be in tomorrow, I'll try and post some pics in a NGD thread.


----------



## Edika

It may sound idiotic to a lot of members here but if they manage to get by and actualy produce the guitar they advertised I would not mind making a purchase. The guitar had pontential as the basic build was not bad and the guitar was resonant. Of course I would ask extensive photos of the actual guitar they would send and not accept again a photoshop mockup.

We have a saying in my country: Experience is like buying a comb after you loose all your hair.

And again thank you more experienced ss.org members for trying to warn us. Even though most of us didn't listen some took your advice and bailed quickly.

The sure think is I hope at least they don't go under until all the people that requested refunds get them and the people that reiceve the guitars are satisfied up to one level.


----------



## Andromalia

> We have a saying in my country: Experience is like buying a comb after you loose all your hair.


Tiens je ne la connaissais pas celle la. 

Will check by the end of the day if the first part of the refund is there.


----------



## Edika

Andromalia said:


> Tiens je ne la connaissais pas celle la.
> 
> Will check by the end of the day if the first part of the refund is there.



C'est normale parsque je suis Grecque et pas Francais hehehehe


----------



## Guit_02

Ok guys here's my story:
I received a SCORPIUS 7ST over 2 weeks ago which seemed to be one of those "B-Stock" models, they advertised on their hp. It had cracks in the fretboard-binding, and the rear (=bodyward) end of the binding looked like glued together by a 5 year old (no offence ment against the glueing skills of adolescents!).
The shady impression got intensified by picking up the guitar (as this was before they "admitted", that there was no mahogany "involved"). As cream topping, the Bareknuckle Painkiller bridge PU I ordered (and paid, and mentioned in every email concerning my order) wasn't installed.
With that first impression I didn't even tune the guitar, but contacted Michele via email and arrangend the return shipping for the same day. Unexpectedly that went quite smooth. I received the UPS-label within one hour, so that the pick-up was opereated that same day (what in my eyes may count as positive performance from Michele/Emperion!).
After the return shipping I contacted them and I changed my order into a total white NORAXII 7 ST with a Bareknuckle Warpig in the bridge position (because they unexplainably ran out of Painkiller-PUs - although I had "mine" ordered with the guitar) and a refund because of the incoherent balance of price and value (made in Korea/China/Wherever, quality control, delay etc.).
The peace offer from Emperion was the installation of a second Bareknuckle Warpig (which I think was/is a noble point) and a refund of 130&#8364;.
The guitar got set-up quite quickly and I received it the monday after I shipped my "B-Stock" (tuesday of the former week).
The NORAX shows a better quality than the SCORPIUS, although it's not flawless. The paint job on the pike of the upper fin is sloppy and the neck-pu wasn't installed properly (the tone potentiometer worked as gain controll). So I added 20&#8364; to the refund (mainly to get the the pu installed propperly) and spent the 150&#8364; in their webshop.
Furthermore I'm quite happy with the NORAX (the paintjob doesn't bother me, because I know how easy guitars get chipped especially on those exposed parts as the fins of a V), and think it's a match for the cash I invested now (370&#8364; including the set of Warpigs).
Concluding I have to say, that I was disappointed by the guitar I ordered, but I have to acknowledge, that Michele and Francesco worked something out I can well live with.
Would I order an Emperion again? I really don't know! I would probably wait for the production to be done, order a guitar and send it back if it wouldn't match the specs or my standard.

So far from my side.
Cheers
Guit_02

Ps. Excuse my english, didn't use it extensively since school...


----------



## Freestyler8

Now I know I'm not involved in this at all, but label me skeptical...

Does this guy above seem to anyone else very much like he is posting from within Emperion? Or is it just me?


----------



## Mr Violence

Even if it was them, they're still saying: "Sorry we didn't use the correct wood, templates, specs, misplaced the pickups you ordered, set up the first guitar poorly, and installed pickups and pots improperly, but after 5 months of waiting and a couple weeks of shipping hassles on your part, you have a halfway decent guitar that still isn't the correct wood, doesn't have the pickups you ordered and on top of that, the neck pickup and one of the pots still don't work right! Now they'll forgive us!"



I don't think it's them.

This whole thread just gets me down. I feel for you guys who ordered, I really do.


----------



## Freestyler8

True, but they also say "Yes we got it wrong, but at least we are attempting to fix it instead of ignoring the problem like we are with most others".

You may be right. I am a very cynical(sp?) person. 

I'm just glad I'm not one that had ordered - if I'd noticed this when the orders were being placed I may well have jumped on the wagon.


----------



## Edika

I don't know if these will calm down some people that are very stressed about their refunds but I received the first part that was my deposti and the money for the Bareknuckle pickups. Of course that doesn't mean that you should not bug them about it just to know that probably you will get your money. Of course I don't know yet when they will give me the second deposit but the paypal invoice was labeld Refund 1 of 2.

Of course since Paypal charged me 12.19 Euros for the transaction (wtf Paypal?) and I am assuming another 12 euros for the second payment plus 8 Euros to transfer the whole amount to my bank (I don't know if I transfer it to the credit card if I will not pay these fees) I am about 32 Euros sort but better get the 600 back than none at all. All and all it is a good day for Paypal.


----------



## Shallow faith

Hi guys,

Just dropping a note to share my experience with Emperion.

To be honest I got worried when I saw the pics of the green norax.
Because of the delivery delay I was able to save up some money and figured that with a refund I would have enough to order a custom at my local luthier.
On June 3rd I sent Michele a mail requesting a refund and explaining why.
He immediately responded stating the guitars had arrived and would be shipped shortly and asking if I still wanted the refund. I said I did.
After a week without a refund I sent another mail referring to my first mail.
The next day I got a reply from Michele informing me my money had been refunded and a confirmation of his bank should be in my mailbox which it was. The money was in my account three days later.

From the beginning Michele has always been helpful and forthcoming.
I don't think they're trying to scam, I think they got in way over their heads.
Nonetheless as soon as I felt it went bad I bailed.
I eventually ended up spending all the money on furniture for my new house. I guess the new guitar has to wait a while.

All the best to those who are awaiting their refund, I guess I was just in time.

Grtz,

Nico,


----------



## Guit_02

Freestyler8 said:


> Now I know I'm not involved in this at all, but label me skeptical...
> 
> Does this guy above seem to anyone else very much like he is posting from within Emperion? Or is it just me?


No, I'm no other way incorporated with Emperion than as a costumer of one of their guitars. I don't know if you think, that my "story" is to positive regarding Emperion, but it went as I wrote, and as I said before, I wouldn't have kept the Scorpius, but the Norax is ok for the money I paid for it, so I decided to keep it.
Simple but true.

Regards
Guit_02


----------



## earworm

Well i got my norax today, its ok. I got the unfinished neck they had to take the paint off so its not as nice if it was built unpainted but its fine. Its definitely not the greatest guitar but ok for the price.


----------



## AhsanU

I should be getting my Norax II 7 FR with the Green Flame in about 2 or 3 weeks. I'll try to get a thorough review in when I get it.

For the guys saying that Emperion is trying to scam - I doubt it. They're just a new guitar company that got stuck in a sticky situation, it happens.


----------



## Ben.Last

AhsanU said:


> For the guys saying that Emperion is trying to scam - I doubt it. They're just a new guitar company that got stuck in a sticky situation, it happens.



I don't think they're running a scam but it's more than just a "sticky situation." They've willfully sent out guitars that simply are not what they've advertised them to be. That's more than an honest mistake. Did they get fucked over? Probably. But Passing on the getting fucked over to the customer is NOT the right thing to do. Thankfully, it seems that they're attempting to make things right in most cases.


----------



## AhsanU

Lern2swim said:


> I don't think they're running a scam but it's more than just a "sticky situation." They've willfully sent out guitars that simply are not what they've advertised them to be. That's more than an honest mistake. Did they get fucked over? Probably. But Passing on the getting fucked over to the customer is NOT the right thing to do. Thankfully, it seems that they're attempting to make things right in most cases.



Hmm, how about.. it's a "bukkake situation"?


----------



## Ketzer

You know, I was one of the first to catch wind of Emperion as a business... I, personally, think that people should just bite the bullet, and get their guitars. I don't think Emperion is out to "get" anyone, per se, they just bit off a lot more than they could chew, and a lot of that could (should) be attributed to the insane amount of people that pre-ordered the guitars, sight-unseen. I've never played one, I admit, but I really like what they set out to do, and it would be a shame to see them go under so fast.

I'm really not a fan of the bandwagon panic, especially because of the issues stated above. It's not easy to do what they're trying to do, and I think that they should be given a chance to make things right, as opposed to scramble to refund everyone's money as the fear-radius expands. It's obvious that there were problems filling everyone's orders, but I don't think that reflects the nature of the company. I certainly don't think that it's a Halo-like situation, Michele doesn't strike me as the kind of guy to do that, at least judging from the email communications people in this thread have posted. I might be wrong, of course, but still. I just don't think it's fair to pass judgment on a company who, for the most part, is just releasing the first run of guitars. It's not like rondo, who only stepped into the 7-string market recently, relative to the amount of time that they've been around, and I think it's unfair to hold them to that level, at least yet. Live and Learn, I suppose. If I had the money, I certainly would have ordered one, and even after this debacle, would probably have kept it. 

As it stands now, I'd have few compunctions about re-buying one of the guitars with "issues" from one of the members of this forum, provided it had specs I liked (Read: Norax). In fact, I've already made my intentions known to a few members here, as well as offered my services at no charge in order to make the guitars a little better than they came off the line.

Speaking of which, I do consider myself one of the more trustworthy folks here, and if anyone has any issues they'd like me to look over, feel free to shoot me a PM. I'd rather fix these guitars for free than see them returned en masse, driving Emperion out of business.


----------



## Andromalia

I understood what you're saying, but it's not a "bandwagon panic". It's "this is not what I have ordered and what is being delivered does not interest me anyway".

Wrong wood, wrong finish, no binding, is just not what I want/need. Period.

FYI I received a partial refund too but find it a bit abusive to have to eat the paypal fees myself which will amount to 35 all in all.


----------



## Ketzer

I don't think bandwagon is the right term. It's more of a pyramid-panic. Some guitars are wrong (like yours), and this prompts a number of people to worry "hey, what if my guitar is fucked up, too?" and ask for a refund, and it spreads from there.

And for the record, I think if I was told Mahogany and Ebony board, and the price new was $500, and it ended up being Basswood with an ebony board or Mahogany with a rosewood board or something, I'd probably just take it and deal. But I'm a pretty lenient person when it comes to stuff like that. I'd only buy B-stocks if I could, too  Not hard to see why a buncha people are miffed.


----------



## Freestyler8

Guit_02 said:


> No, I'm no other way incorporated with Emperion than as a costumer of one of their guitars. I don't know if you think, that my "story" is to positive regarding Emperion, but it went as I wrote, and as I said before, I wouldn't have kept the Scorpius, but the Norax is ok for the money I paid for it, so I decided to keep it.
> Simple but true.
> 
> Regards
> Guit_02



Fair enough man, glad you managed to get at least some kind of result in the end.


----------



## Andromalia

Ketzer said:


> ...



Yeah I understand what you mean.  
I might have kept and tried it if I had some kind of need/want for a basswood guitar but if I needed one I'd probably already have an Ibanez anyway.

Besides, I knew there was some risk involved, I just wanted to give a potential new guy on the european market a hand by purchasing something that was attractive on paper. Well it will have cost me some waiting time and 35 all in all. I'd rather have had them succeed, you know.


----------



## Edika

Ketzer said:


> I don't think bandwagon is the right term. It's more of a pyramid-panic. Some guitars are wrong (like yours), and this prompts a number of people to worry "hey, what if my guitar is fucked up, too?" and ask for a refund, and it spreads from there.
> 
> And for the record, I think if I was told Mahogany and Ebony board, and the price new was $500, and it ended up being Basswood with an ebony board or Mahogany with a rosewood board or something, I'd probably just take it and deal. But I'm a pretty lenient person when it comes to stuff like that. I'd only buy B-stocks if I could, too  Not hard to see why a buncha people are miffed.



I see what you are saying and I actually agree. That is why I waited for the guitar to arrive and didn't bail out in the first signs of panic. The Norax had some differences but the woods were correct. And while the construction seemed solid there were a lot of imperfections that I just couldn't accept. Not to mention wrong pickups. Even though they offered to replace the pickups and the nut for my guitar they would not be able to repaint the guitar and fix the defect in the fretboard. Even the freaking case was crooked. And with 599$ you get a 7 string V from BC rich with with ebony board, mahogany wings, OFR, grover tuners and the purple quilt. And the imperfections would be considerably less.

I really hope they pull through though and manage to create the guitars that they promised for this run. If they make the Norax as they actually advertised I would buy it.


----------



## AhsanU

Edika said:


> I see what you are saying and I actually agree. That is why I waited for the guitar to arrive and didn't bail out in the first signs of panic. The Norax had some differences but the woods were correct. And while the construction seemed solid there were a lot of imperfections that I just couldn't accept. Not to mention wrong pickups. Even though they offered to replace the pickups and the nut for my guitar they would not be able to repaint the guitar and fix the defect in the fretboard. Even the freaking case was crooked. And with 599$ you get a 7 string V from BC rich with with ebony board, mahogany wings, OFR, grover tuners and the purple quilt. And the imperfections would be considerably less.
> 
> I really hope they pull through though and manage to create the guitars that they promised for this run. If they make the Norax as they actually advertised I would buy it.




Apparently they have a custom shop in Italy, I'd honestly pay a pretty penny for the advertised guitar. The gold shark fin inlays with the upper fret access - hell yeah I would.

One question I have is - has anyone ordered from their custom shop?


----------



## Edika

AhsanU said:


> Apparently they have a custom shop in Italy, I'd honestly pay a pretty penny for the advertised guitar. The gold shark fin inlays with the upper fret access - hell yeah I would.
> 
> One question I have is - has anyone ordered from their custom shop?



They advertised a custom Scorpius with a rosewood fingerboard when the guitars first arrived. I don't know if it is a custom shop guitar or not but it didn't strike me as something extravagant. 

When I first asked them about the Norax and asked about the white colour and the possibility of a neck through V they told me that they do that in their custom shop but that prices where starting from 1000 euros. If I wanted to give 1000 euros for a guitar though there were a lot of safer choices.


----------



## Rotatous

AhsanU said:


> Apparently they have a custom shop in Italy, I'd honestly pay a pretty penny for the advertised guitar. The gold shark fin inlays with the upper fret access - hell yeah I would.
> 
> One question I have is - has anyone ordered from their custom shop?



I ordered a custom (sent in email with specs and got quote). And I think someone else on here did too. I had no idea where their custom shop was (didn't know if they sent in specs to a factory or something). If there is in fact a real custom shop in Italy, I will be much more at ease. 

Where did you see this?




Edika said:


> They advertised a custom Scorpius with a rosewood fingerboard when the guitars first arrived. I don't know if it is a custom shop guitar or not but it didn't strike me as something extravagant.
> 
> When I first asked them about the Norax and asked about the white colour and the possibility of a neck through V they told me that they do that in their custom shop but that prices where starting from 1000 euros. If I wanted to give 1000 euros for a guitar though there were a lot of safer choices.



I ordered a scorpius, and they told me that the prices started at 650 euros, so I assume it's just more or less for different models. (?)


----------



## Alberto7

Holy crap, I just finished reading all 25 pages and 625 posts of this thread... This is some pretty messed up shit. I feel for the Emperion guys because of their situation; but doing bad business is... Well, bad. As it has been stated before, it's the nature of the business world. You invest in something, if you do good a job and everything works out, fine. If you don't, that's it. They have been so dishonest and there have been so many mistakes from their part, that it's just completely inexcusable, regardless of their situation. I really, REALLY hope each one of you gets what you deserve, be it a fair refund, or being pleased with your instrument. 

I'll stay tuned on this situation and will probably post my two cents every now and then. 

Good luck to everyone! 

Alberto


----------



## Edika

Rotatous said:


> I ordered a custom (sent in email with specs and got quote). And I think someone else on here did too. I had no idea where their custom shop was (didn't know if they sent in specs to a factory or something). If there is in fact a real custom shop in Italy, I will be much more at ease.
> 
> Where did you see this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I ordered a scorpius, and they told me that the prices started at 650 euros, so I assume it's just more or less for different models. (?)




Concerning their custom shop they mentioned it in their statements and mail they send over the last months but there is nothing on their site indicating a custom shop. They said in the last statement trying to explain the whole mess that their custom shop works normally.

Concerning the custom shop prices in general they were quoting a bit of different prices to everybody and it was a bit strange to me. For example they had said in the beginning that the Bareknuckle set I asked was 200 Euros but had quoted to someone else from sevenstring 80 euros per Bareknuckle pickup. What I don't know if he was outside of the EU and they quoted him a price without VAT. Anyway this is what they had told me for a Norax neck through with a flame top and while not expensive for a custom shop I prefered to take the cheaper choice and am glad I did.

On another note in their facebook page they mention that they are inspecting a new Koran factory and will see what they'll do. 

What I don't understand in their statements and replies of asking for friends to help them redesign the models for free is why? Don't they have the original designs before they got altered for some dubious reason? Those designs had attracted a lot of people. Or are they planning to introduce new models and improve more the existing/non-existing ones (see photoshop mock ups)? Time will tell. As Andromalia said and me previously, I'll loose around to 35 to 40 euros on Paypal feel from this whole ordeal but better than loosing the whole amount or having a guitar that is not worth half of what I paid.


----------



## AhsanU

Rotatous said:


> I ordered a custom (sent in email with specs and got quote). And I think someone else on here did too. I had no idea where their custom shop was (didn't know if they sent in specs to a factory or something). If there is in fact a real custom shop in Italy, I will be much more at ease.
> 
> Where did you see this?



Before they introduced the 2010 lineup, I saw the Norax-7K, which has a Kahler, and asked if I could get one with a different graphic scheme, a different 12th fret inlay, and a Floyd Rose. They informed me that they couldn't do this to their import model but could do it via their custom shop. When I asked how much their custom shop would charge me, they quoted me "$1500-2000 USD". After which I declined and proceeded to order the 2010 model.


----------



## Snytbaggen

My guitar arrived today. Since I'll keep it, I'm going to post a NGD thread. Should be up in about 15 minutes or so.


----------



## eks_500

I´m starting to be a little pissed of about this, I´m asking for a refund since the 10th of June! and they are denying me my right to a refund. They don´t answer my emails until I send the same email again and they tell me that they has spent a lot of time in my guitar, Did they listening to anything I say? I've been asking for a refund since 18 days ago, why are they working on my guitar? 
They can say whatever they want, but I order a mahogany body and neck guitar, with body fingerboard and headstock binding, with pickup rings, and what I´ll get it´s a basswood body and maple neck guitar, without body and headstock binding, without pickup rings..... For me this is clearly a wrong item. 

I think that they are trying to force me to keep the guitar, but I'll take this to the end. I am talking with the consumer organization to process the claim.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Ketzer said:


> I don't think bandwagon is the right term. It's more of a pyramid-panic. Some guitars are wrong (like yours), and this prompts a number of people to worry "hey, what if my guitar is fucked up, too?" and ask for a refund, and it spreads from there.
> 
> And for the record, I think if I was told Mahogany and Ebony board, and the price new was $500, and it ended up being Basswood with an ebony board or Mahogany with a rosewood board or something, I'd probably just take it and deal. But I'm a pretty lenient person when it comes to stuff like that. I'd only buy B-stocks if I could, too  Not hard to see why a buncha people are miffed.



I would NEVER pay for something that I didn't order. If I ordered something specific, and they gave me something else, you can bet your ass that guitar would be going right back and I'd be getting a refund  I don't stand for that shit on a $10 meal at McDonalds, I wouldn't stand for that shit on a $500+ guitar.


----------



## Edika

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I would NEVER pay for something that I didn't order. If I ordered something specific, and they gave me something else, you can bet your ass that guitar would be going right back and I'd be getting a refund  I don't stand for that shit on a $10 meal at McDonalds, I wouldn't stand for that shit on a $500+ guitar.



I totally agree. Price doesn't matter (well after a certain amount it matters). You ask for one thing and you get another. It might be good, even as good as the one you ordered. But it's not what you ordered!


----------



## Sean Babiniec

Mods should rename this thread "Emperion Fail".


----------



## Murmel

Sean Babiniec said:


> Mods should rename this thread "Emperion Fail".


Considering it's 26 ½ pages of fail I approve of that idea


----------



## Ben.Last

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I would NEVER pay for something that I didn't order. If I ordered something specific, and they gave me something else, you can bet your ass that guitar would be going right back and I'd be getting a refund  I don't stand for that shit on a $10 meal at McDonalds, I wouldn't stand for that shit on a $500+ guitar.



Totally agree. And this is something that's not specific to Emperion either. Rondo's had their fair share of cases where they've sent out guitars with the wrong specs (albeit, not on the scale of this) and I've been kind of flabbergasted every time the customer's decided to keep the product. Sure, I guess there could be cases where they are actually happy with the final product (getting Mcnuggets instead of a big mac by mistake but realizing that Mcnuggets actually sound pretty tasty once you've got them) but more often I think it's just a case of the customer not wanting to deal with the hassle of a return and waiting for a replacement/refund which is seriously sad because it send th wrong message to the seller and helps no one. (Wow. That's a major run on sentence)


----------



## Hollowway

Lern2swim said:


> ...but more often I think it's just a case of the customer not wanting to deal with the hassle of a return and waiting for a replacement/refund which is seriously sad because it send th wrong message to the seller and helps no one.



Yeah, and unfortunately that's the thought behind many companies' arcane return polcies. They want you to give up because its not worth your time to keep fighting. This business about "we can't pay you right now" falls into that category, IMO.


----------



## ephrion

It's really surprising to me how forgiving some people are to Emperion. They completely fucked up and should be shown no mercy. Changing the specs on all the models is at absolute best deception and at worst fraud, given that all the changes appear to have been cost cutting maneuvers. The guitars are in shitty condition as well. LTD 50 series and Bronze BC Rich in Guitar Center are in better shape and with better build quality.

Sucks to all of you that got scammed...


----------



## JaeSwift

ephrion said:


> It's really surprising to me how forgiving some people are to Emperion. They completely fucked up and should be shown no mercy.



This, seriously. Either they fucked up purposely or they fucked up due to their own stupidity, but either way they don't deserve any sympathy what-so-ever. I can't even begin to tell you how mis-managed a business must be if their side of the story (the guy fucking up an order etc.) is actually true.


----------



## Edika

Just ot bump this thread a bit, I am still waiting for the second part of the refund. The positive thing is that I have at least communication with them. When I send them an email and get a reply in a logical amount of time.

Also what happened with the rest of the guys waiting for refund? Any other members received their guitars? What are your thoughts and how do they sound with upgraded pickups?


----------



## Psionicist

I am still waiting on the pickups. Once I get them and have them installed,I'll post a review.


----------



## earworm

I have to say im really diggin my norax with painkillers and an unfinished neck. I do love the neck on it, my 24 th fret is lifted a little though i gotta fix that and replace the plastic nut that broke on me but emperion is sending me a shaped graphite one.


----------



## AhsanU

I got a tracking number for my Norax II 7 FR Green Flame, it should be coming in next week Friday. I'll have an extensive and thorough review of it once I get a hold of it. Thing is, I also have religious (Muslim) family coming over and staying for the next month, so playing will be difficult and I won't be able to comment on the way it sounds. But as far as craftsmanship and looks go, I'll be able to coin my opinions.


----------



## technomancer

Lern2swim said:


> Totally agree. And this is something that's not specific to Emperion either. Rondo's had their fair share of cases where they've sent out guitars with the wrong specs (albeit, not on the scale of this) and I've been kind of flabbergasted every time the customer's decided to keep the product. Sure, I guess there could be cases where they are actually happy with the final product (getting Mcnuggets instead of a big mac by mistake but realizing that Mcnuggets actually sound pretty tasty once you've got them) but more often I think it's just a case of the customer not wanting to deal with the hassle of a return and waiting for a replacement/refund which is seriously sad because it send th wrong message to the seller and helps no one. (Wow. That's a major run on sentence)



The difference being Rondo has a satisfaction guaranteed, no questions asked return policy that makes it REALLY east to return something that has an issue... whereas Emperion doesn't and really doesn't seem to be making it easy for people to do returns or get their money back. Again though this pretty much had too good to be true written all over it from the beginning


----------



## Ben.Last

technomancer said:


> The difference being Rondo has a satisfaction guaranteed, no questions asked return policy that makes it REALLY east to return something that has an issue... whereas Emperion doesn't and really doesn't seem to be making it easy for people to do returns or get their money back. Again though this pretty much had too good to be true written all over it from the beginning



That's for domestic customers only. International orders go out without a warranty. Again, that's not a knock against Rondo; I love their stuff.


----------



## Snytbaggen

I've spoken with them some more and we've found an agreement that we're both happy with: I get some new pickups and they'll pay for a fret leveling. Some of you will probably call me an idiot or whatever for this, but I'm happy with it  It fixes the main problem on my guitar since not all frets are level, and I get pickups to compensate for some other stuff.


----------



## irolis

Some are getting this,some that as a compensation,imo they should make a list what the customer can ask for ,depending on the problems and not just randomly make arrangements..
Ah,I hope that everything turns out nice (or acceptable) for everyone!


----------



## Borinthas

I got my Emperion Orion last week. It has EMGs on (81x and 85), sounds really really good. The neck is thick I should say and I don't think the fingerboard is rosewood.  I like the shape and size but it has 1 or 2 minor cosmetic problems. I am left-handed so I thought I couldn't find a better deal. Overall I am pretty satisfied. I didn't have the same problems like some of you did. I got my responds within hours and got my guitar exactly in 8 days. (3 days upgrading plus 5 days shipping with DHL) So I hope you guys can get the best deal from them.


----------



## tatgren

Borinthas said:


> I got my Emperion Orion last week. It has EMGs on (81x and 85), sounds really really good. The neck is thick I should say and I don't think the fingerboard is rosewood.  I like the shape and size but it has 1 or 2 minor cosmetic problems. I am left-handed so I thought I couldn't find a better deal. Overall I am pretty satisfied. I didn't have the same problems like some of you did. I got my responds within hours and got my guitar exactly in 8 days. (3 days upgrading plus 5 days shipping with DHL) So I hope you guys can get the best deal from them.



Awesome man!!!, i got my Scorpius too, i must have to say that is an awesome guitar for the price, i had problems with the shipping and for the change of specs (Maho0ganny ----> Basswood), but i hae to say that they low the price, have some cosmetic issues...but nothing that can be solved.


----------



## Edika

Just to bump this thread with some news. I finally received the rest of my refund so at least I got back my money (minus paypal fees for the two transactions). It seems that they are not planning to shut down the name of Emperion and start over, they send the rest of the guitars back to the factory for a refund and are starting over with a new line of guitars. How these will turn out time will tell.

For people waiting for refunds Francesco is out until Friday so you should contact Michele. And they will be closed from the 7th to the 16th of August.

I am positive that no member from ss.org will try their chances on these instruments again, but personally if enough time passes to forget a bit this ordeal and they start working their business as they should, with good customer service and good guitars for the price with out the horrific flaws this line had I may consider trying my luck again (may and I know I am a masochist).


----------



## 13point9

I still haven't had ANY of my money back yet and am now in a real bad way money wise due to me buying a replacement a bit prematurely ~_~


----------



## Edika

13point9 said:


> I still haven't had ANY of my money back yet and am now in a real bad way money wise due to me buying a replacement a bit prematurely ~_~



Sorry to hear that man! You should bug them again about the refund since it seems they got some money back from the factory. Just don't go guns blazing until you see how they reply. I would suggest a more diplomatic approach.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Edika said:


> Sorry to hear that man! You should bug them again about the refund since it seems they got some money back from the factory. Just don't go guns blazing until you see how they reply. I would suggest a more diplomatic approach.



It's sad that you have to "butter up" the folks who fucked you if you want *your* money back.


----------



## Edika

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's sad that you have to "butter up" the folks who fucked you if you want *your* money back.



Well he can try a polite email asking for his money back. Now that they have some funds they have no excuse of not giving him a refund. If they refuse again then he can take it to the next level.


----------



## tatgren

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Emperion-Guitars/224323289125?v=wall&ref=ts

LOL that a simple answer to the forums...so bad for this brand


----------



## Edika

To follow up Tatgrens post (not that anyone cares much in this site anymore)

"Hi there,

Counterfeit WARNING !

We've been warned that on Ebay someone is selling a prototype of a
never released to the public guitar model.

<strong> DO NOT </strong> buy it for any reason as it is been
projected (and therefore produced) with some errors made on purpose to
avoid unauthorized re-selling by factories offering prototyping
services.

The aforementioned instrument features errors as folows making it
impossible to be played correctly:

Licensed Floyd rose bridge is more than 8mm misplaced in order to make
impossible to intonate the guitar correctly.

The bridge routing is made incorrectly on purpose to let the bridge do
not float correctly.

Neck thru construction is not made in the correct way but with
discarded wood production parts.

That prototype run was made only to test our new guitar designing and
projecting software and that guitar is NOT produced by the factory
that is developing our forthcoming EMPERION REVO SERIES, COMPLETELY RE-
THINKED AND RE-DISEGNED FROM SCRATCH, COMING AUTUMN-WINTER 2010

Best regards
Emperion Guitars"


----------



## Psionicist

Yeah, someone caught that auction on ebay and it is posted in the lefty auction thread.


----------



## Edika

Seems that auction is terminated. I wanted to see it out of curiosity.


----------



## Ben.Last

"EMPERION REVO SERIES, COMPLETELY RE-
THINKED AND RE-DISEGNED FROM SCRATCH, COMING AUTUMN-WINTER 2010"

Well, as long as they've 're-thinked' things I'm sure they'll be great


----------



## canuck brian

Edika said:


> To follow up Tatgrens post (not that anyone cares much in this site anymore)
> 
> "Hi there,
> 
> Counterfeit WARNING !
> 
> We've been warned that on Ebay someone is selling a prototype of a
> never released to the public guitar model.
> 
> <strong> DO NOT </strong> buy it for any reason as it is been
> projected (and therefore produced) with some errors made on purpose to
> avoid unauthorized re-selling by factories offering prototyping
> services.
> 
> The aforementioned instrument features errors as folows making it
> impossible to be played correctly:
> 
> Licensed Floyd rose bridge is more than 8mm misplaced in order to make
> impossible to intonate the guitar correctly.
> 
> The bridge routing is made incorrectly on purpose to let the bridge do
> not float correctly.
> 
> Neck thru construction is not made in the correct way but with
> discarded wood production parts.
> 
> That prototype run was made only to test our new guitar designing and
> projecting software and that guitar is NOT produced by the factory
> that is developing our forthcoming EMPERION REVO SERIES, COMPLETELY RE-
> THINKED AND RE-DISEGNED FROM SCRATCH, COMING AUTUMN-WINTER 2010
> 
> Best regards
> Emperion Guitars"



Who the fuck intentionally produces a prototype that you can't play?


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## Edika

canuck brian said:


> Who the fuck intentionally produces a prototype that you can't play?




You got a point there man 

This applies only if what they said so far is true and especially about the Aramis factory prototyping but then selling their designs without their approval. Think of it as real life mockup! Pretty to look but as functional as a photoshop image. Kinda like most of the guitars they sold this year!!!


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## JaeSwift

Pretty sure that was meant as a playable prototype, but now that someone's trying to flog it they're saying they made it unplayable on purpose before the word gets out that their ''Re-thinked'' line of guitars is equally as shit as their ''Un-thinked'' line of guitars.

Don't trust them, burn them.


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## Alberto7

JaeSwift said:


> Pretty sure that was meant as a playable prototype, but now that someone's trying to flog it they're saying they made it unplayable on purpose before the word gets out that their ''Re-thinked'' line of guitars is equally as shit as their ''Un-thinked'' line of guitars.
> 
> Don't trust them, burn them.



This.

It just seems like an excuse to make up for something they know they have screwed up on, before everybody gets to know the truth. It just doesn't make sense that you make SUCH an unplayable prototype. I bet it won't even be pretty to look at, with 8 mm of misplacing of the bridge, and bad routings for the bridge pickup... That won't look so well.


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## Fuel

Honestly, the prototype thing does make a little sense to me. I mean, if they were worried about the dealer selling off their prototypes, a few "tweaks" are somewhat understandable. It seems a little shady given their current track record, but I'd see it as a kind of "dealer lock" on the prototypes. They're proof of concept for general assembly and whatnot, but unusable as actual instruments, therefore (theoretically) unsellable. Just my


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## Snytbaggen

Fuel said:


> Honestly, the prototype thing does make a little sense to me. I mean, if they were worried about the dealer selling off their prototypes, a few "tweaks" are somewhat understandable. It seems a little shady given their current track record, but I'd see it as a kind of "dealer lock" on the prototypes. They're proof of concept for general assembly and whatnot, but unusable as actual instruments, therefore (theoretically) unsellable. Just my



Yeah, exactly my thoughts. If I was testing a prototype with a cheap Chinese factory I'd want to make sure they couldn't resell the prototype. And while it technically would be unplayable you can still try the general design/fret access/neck shape etc and how it all works together.


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## Andromalia

Fuel said:


> Honestly, the prototype thing does make a little sense to me. I mean, if they were worried about the dealer selling off their prototypes, a few "tweaks" are somewhat understandable. It seems a little shady given their current track record, but I'd see it as a kind of "dealer lock" on the prototypes. They're proof of concept for general assembly and whatnot, but unusable as actual instruments, therefore (theoretically) unsellable. Just my



Why do business with such a factory in the first place ? I can understand the logic, but coming from a company that that just doesn't show any good faith, it's a bit of a lame excuse. Expecially since one of the green noraxes shown on its own topic here has...EXACTLY the same flaw. And it was sold by Emperion.


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## Fuel

Andromalia said:


> Why do business with such a factory in the first place ? I can understand the logic, but coming from a company that that just doesn't show any good faith, it's a bit of a lame excuse. Expecially since one of the green noraxes shown on its own topic here has...EXACTLY the same flaw. And it was sold by Emperion.


I get precisely what you mean. I don't think they actually SUSPECTED that factory as much as they were just being wary. But like I said, given what we've seen from Emperion so far, I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that that's simply how they made the guitar. Either way, Emperion is going to have a lot of ground to cover to counteract the bad PR from this run of guitars.


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## Psionicist

I have been hesitant in posting this idea, but here goes:
On the Emperion site, they have this endorsement/testimony statement:


21/06/10

Here is what Jake Anderson of Her Demise My Rise had to say about his newly received Emperion: 

"Got my guitar the other day and all i gotta say is FUCK ! Good job guys this guitar plays perfectly, heres a little something i recorded with it at my home studio." 


 
What I imagined/dreamed up is that they cut & pasted parts of his response to make it look good. So I was wondering (just for FUN) what you guys imagined the dude "really" said about his newly received Emperion?

My version:

"Got my guitar the other day and all I gotta say is FUCK YOU! Good job guys this guitar plays perfectly as long as you dont look at it or plug it in! here is a little something i recorded with it at my home studio" Insert a rant of profanity, and probably the sound of a circular saw in action, or the sound of a toilet flushing

So I hope this is an ok thing to post. Just thought it might be a way we can make some humor out of the whole Emperion debacle. Its not meant to get any one fired back up. Just something that occurred to me in my head amd made me chuckle, and I thought I would pass it along.


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## Ketzer

eh... I don't think that's a good idea. I mean, it's probably got no serious consequences, but you know, if the guy got the guitar and he likes it, there's no reason to assume that his testimony is false, at least not without playing the guitar.

I'm sure he got a perfectly serviceable guitar, and until I hear otherwise, that's what I assume happened.


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## Psionicist

for clarity, I am not accusing them of falsifying his statement. I was just thinking that hs statement was probably very much ..the POLAR opposite of other board members here that received their Emperions. 

I guess lesson learned = sometimes stuff that is funny in my head doesnt translate well to online forums/posting. 

Sorry 

Incidentally, if you do have the same kind of sense of humor that I do, I'd be happy to read your ideas in a PM, especially if them being in this forum is considered too inflammatory.


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## 7deadlysins666

^^ I think that the artist's, and the videos posted got the "good" guitars made in the factory they originally intended to use. However, Emperion got in over their heads and couldn't do it due to costs being too high, so they hired a cheap Chinese factory to do the work. I actually once found a Chinese guitar maker that listed Emperion on their site, I cannot find it now to save my life, but I know it existed.


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## MaxOfMetal

Everyone keeps saying they "got in over their heads" like they're 17 year old girls who borrowed their dad's credit card and bought a $1200 pure breed puppy. 

These are grown men who already took place in the music instrument/accessory retail industry. They didn't just make a poor decision or snap judgement that didn't pay off, they FUCKED UP. 

They've lied, mislead, omitted, responded rudely and behaved defensively because they made a series of terrible decisions and chose to keep their shirts opposed to manning up to their customers. 



By the way, that wasn't directed at anyone in particular.


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## Andromalia

I still think the original mistake is accepting all the orders and ending up with a 300+ guitars "limited run".
Seriously, even established brands doing limited runs never do that. Dean limited runs were mostly 12-48 guitars, etc.

So they ended up with: 
-Original factory unable to pump all the ordered guitars
-backup factory not making the guitars according to specs
-lack of woods for 300 guitars ending up with putting anything but what was ordered for the second batch.

I think this is how it all happened since you can obviously see from the available pics that the white scorpius got a binding and body shape fitting the original photoshop quite closely, while the black 7s are schecter ripoffs. My analysis: they used the "good" factory for all they could and funnelled the leftover orders through another factory in a rush.

All could still have been fine at this point if they'd admitted to it and just refunded people, the problem is, they spent the money already. Remember the "we are moving to a new office" posted all over the place ?

I think thery're juste dancing not to go under at this point and try to save their job. They for sure should get some "How to PR 101" lessons, but working in that kind of area myself, I perfectly know some of the emails they received likely were written like 'you bunch of incompetents give me my money back you ##### pieces of ######.'
Doesn't excuse not being professional, but helps to understand stuff. 

So to all people not yet reimbursed: stay polite in your emails, else the employee can very well put your request at the end of the queue and you'll see your money in 2048 while all the polite guys get reimbursed first.

That said, I perfectly acknowledge my wiewpoint is the one of a guy who did get his money back in the end.


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## AhsanU

Andromalia said:


> That said, I perfectly acknowledge my wiewpoint is the one of a guy who did get his money back in the end.



You're a minority here, they haven't refunded many people. In fact, most people who want a refund is having to do a back charge on their credit cards to get the money back. I'm still waiting on mine.


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## tatgren

another sad answer here:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/posted.php?id=224323289125

and the Emperion answer:
"Thank you for posting one of the few faulty guitars that were sent out in error, keep on doing this awesome reporting job ! This will help us to improve and become better and stronger.
EVERY customer got more that fair compensation, in more ... than one case also the guitar almost for free plus a load of other equipment.
As already said we've issued a detailed statement quite sime time ago about the situation and now is being resolved radically.
If ANYBODY has some question can contact us via email and we will gladly answer on every topic."

take a look in the ANYBODY word..there is no more to say...


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## MaxOfMetal

tatgren said:


> "Thank you for posting proof of our faulty guitars that were sent out because of our great errors in judgement, keep on doing this awesome reporting job so no one will be fooled by us again! This will help us to close shop and become a different brand and fuck people over again.
> Not quite EVERY customer got compensation, in more ... than one case also the worthless guitar almost for free plus a load of other equipment that we got at wholesale prices.
> As already said we've issued a detailed statement full of lies, half truths, and brushoffs quite sime time ago about the situation we caused and now is being resolved radically at our own leisure.
> If ANYBODY has some question can contact us via email and we will gladly answer on every topic when we feel like it with disregard to customer service."



Fixed.


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## Evil7




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## Psionicist

LOL Max....thats the kind of idea I meant when I posted that testimonial idea
Good Job!


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## Alberto7

Big lulz at Max's post  that about sums up the entire situation. 

This thread should probably be made public so everyone knows what they're getting into in the future if they ever decide to buy from Emperion...


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## Edika

I wrote a review in the ultimate guitar site and I hope it will veer of any potential buyers.


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## tatgren

Edika said:


> I wrote a review in the ultimate guitar site and I hope it will veer of any potential buyers.


I read your review, but i think that the emperion guys are not honest 100%, i will register and put a review there, my guitar is not as horrible as yours, but have serious faults that in a 512 Euros Guitar is unacceptable, perhaps those guys can raise your brand in a future...but for now i will never buy a thing from this guys and i will warn about that


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## Edika

I think I didn't clarify that point very well in the review. What I was trying to say is that their email replies to me seemed honest. But I think from what I wrote afterwards it seems that they were not that honest. Maybe I sugarcoated my review so please post yours also. If anybody else has an account somewhere else that you can post reviews please do so.


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## Edika

And Max epic win on the "corrections"!!


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## MJS

Andromalia said:


> I still think the original mistake is accepting all the orders and ending up with a 300+ guitars "limited run".



I still think the original mistake was when the parents of the Emperion owners chose not to get abortions. 

Everything I've read leads me to believe that anyone associated with Emperion is a piece of trash. That goes from the unethical money-grabbing thieves at the top all the way down to the incompetent sweatshop flunkies pumping out the pieces of shit they're calling guitars.


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## TheSilentWater

Emperion fills me with RAAAGE!


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## tatgren

well for now i found more mistakes, i just take the guitar and a Luthier and he said me taht he will repair those mistakes, ohh another thing, the frets is so uneven and Max have right.. perhaps the ebony is not black but the luthier tells me that does not look like ebony and is not portoasis ebony, have a weird laquer and the cosmetics issues that he will fix , anyway the experience cost money and the next cheap guitar will be an Agile rather than Emperion s***y brand, after Luthiers fix the guitar i will put a review in ultimate guitar


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## capoeiraesp

It's AAA rosewood on your fretboard, the emperion guys told me straight up.


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## Andromalia

capoeiraesp said:


> It's AAA rosewood on your fretboard, the emperion guys told me straight up.


You sure he didn't say "it's a rosewood"


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## MaxOfMetal

capoeiraesp said:


> It's AAA rosewood on your fretboard, the emperion guys told me straight up.





I don't know what's funnier, the fact that Rosewood without figure is being graded as such, or that the guys from Emperion were "straight up". 

Bunch of liars and thieves they are.


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## cwhitey2

I got this from their facebook...and i could not stop laughing 

"Set up in 2001 as a professional and passionate mid-size luthiers workshop by three* highly-skilled* lute-makers and merging American, Japanese and Italian craftsmanships resulting from their *twenty years* experience in renowned guitar and bass companies, Emperion guitars and basses turns now into a company *proudly *supplying some of the most cutting-edge music instruments for any demanding musician, and, last but not least, offering *cost-effective quality products* - more quality, less money."

i dont own one their 'guitars' and i never will from what i have been reading on here, its just funny that they are "highly-skilled" with 20 years exp, and that they sell "cost-effective quality products". 

all the guitars i have seen on here suck (not hating on the people that bought one, its not your fault) and i cant believe they would even sell these things let alone call them "cost-effective quality products"


i dont build guitars, but i would put money on it that i could build a better guitar these "lute-makers". end rant


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## Schattensturm

Shitty thing to start with in a new forum, but I'll tell you about the new Revo series. The other guitarist of my band has a guitar from the first and second series but my Revo one is by far the most horrible thing I've seen produced by them. It's more or less a best-of-faults cause I got almost everything all you guys got on several guitars combined on just one guitar. Pics to follow tomorrow. The finishing is like an eighth world wonder. I don't know how you can mess something up like that and then call it "probably the best repainting job Emperion ever did". Do I want to see the other jobs? NO! Do I want to kill myself cause I didn't read this forum early enough? YES! Let's see if they will refund me.


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## Schattensturm

Consumer protection told me not to take further measures on my own, because they'll handle this. I'll give you the pictures when this case is done.


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## Andromalia

Sue them up their ass.


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## JaeSwift

Please post pics for entertainment value. I realise it sucks for you, don't get me wrong, but atleast this way you can put a smile on other people's faces!


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## Edika

The advice from the consumer agency to him was not to do anything until the case is solved so we will have to be a bit patient to see pics from the newest Emperion disaster!


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## Fred the Shred

He said he'd put some pics up today, I believe. So much for the "new and improved" series, much to the horror of unsuspecting customers, it would seem.


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## Edika

We'll see soon then! Schattensturm gave me some information about the situation but I'll let him explain the whole situation. From my understanding it was only one guitar that was built this time so no excuses!


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## ShadowFactoryX

its a shame these guys, being the joke that they are, keep plugging away relentlessly

are any of the dudes involved with emperion/revo part of the ATMF label?
i'll be upset because there is some seriously good bands on there


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## Schattensturm

yes they are, the owner is the same guy. atmf has a lot of shitty nazi stuff on their label i just detected. hurra for these firms.


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## Schattensturm

drops of finish




same drops again




rests of covering foil




dark black spots allover




spots again, crooked inlay on headstock, absolutely crooked tuners




black spot and unpolished finish




ground-through spot and various finishing colours




ground-through spots on the edge




ground-through spot and a black spot (to cover it??)




finish-colours vary on the left upper side




thick drop of finish





varying finishing-colours

and this is just the top of the iceberg, more to follow if somebody needs to laugh even harder...


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## Prydogga

That looks like the most sickly rosewood....


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## Fred the Shred

Oh, man....


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## Stealthdjentstic

The italian Roter?


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## Alberto7

I know I shouldn't be laughing at your expense... But man, they've fucked up so bad so many times that I find the fact that they claim to be a reputable company just plain funny and completely unreal.

Their work is beyond terrible and unacceptable, and whatever you can see of the fretboard in those photos looks like dry and rough wood.

I'm terribly sorry, man


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## JaeSwift

It looks like they tried to paint the neck without masking the fretboard off ;<_< That or someone with parkinson put the tape on there.


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## brutalwizard

just spent over a hour reading all this 

HHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAA


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## HeHasTheJazzHands




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## Schattensturm

unpolished head




poorly cut bridge




poorly cut pickup-hole




crooked nut with paint on the left edge




one of my "favs" - the string has to pass the screw before hitting the bridge. this is also the reason why the b-string immediately teared when i wanted to tune the guitar.


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## Schattensturm

they indeed didn't mask the fretboard before painting it, there's colour all over it. by the way: note the way the strings on the headplate have to pass the tuners of the nearby strings. this is just hilarious.


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## Schattensturm

look at how uneven the fingerboard radius is and i still cannot make out what those beige stripes on the edge of the fingerboard are...


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## Schattensturm

the upper pickupring is totally worn out. seems the holes for the screws didn't fit...


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## capoeiraesp

Wow! I am astonished. I truly thought they'd never be able to do worse than they did on the white 7 string I ordered from them in the last lot but they did. 
What is their response at this time?

I've never seen a fretboard look so horrible on any guitar.


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## Edika

I think Roter would be considered a classy company compared to Emperion. Damn these are a lot of defects for producing ONE guitar only. Guess that guy popped back up to fuck up another guitar. He is like a gremlin in that company (sic sic sic sic)!!!

By the way Schattensturm how goes the case against them? Was there any progress?


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## jymellis

i want a full fretboard pic!


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## MaxOfMetal

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but Emperion are, as a company, a bunch of liars and thieves. Maybe last time could be chucked up to some form of getting in over their heads, or just being too naive, but this is pretty much a nail in their coffin. 

They are liars. They are thieves. 

I really think you guys who got hosed here should REALLY send some e-mails to all the brands that Emperion imports/posts on their site. I don't see how guys like Vader would want to be associated with scammers.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone

Prydogga said:


> That looks like the most sickly rosewood....



So that's what it is! 

Seriously, though, that shit is unacceptable.


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## Fred the Shred

> We&#8217;re pleased to announce that EMPERION REVO GUITARS has decided to join forces with TITAN CABINETS, the transition has already taken place and will be completed in the next months.
> Now both EMPERION REVO GUITARS and TITAN CABINETS have become divisions of MITHRAS INVICTUS LLC.
> The new synergy will allow us to open warehouses both in UK and US and to improve the service we offer to our customers, fair prices and a wider selection of musical instruments.
> In order to celebrate the success of the latest EMPERION REVO GUITARS line we&#8217;ve decided to cut prices on the whole guitar line: our customer base is mostly composed of young touring musicians and students so this is a further step in our company&#8217;s philosophy of making things easier for all of them: check it our HERE.



Oh no.


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## CloudAC

I wish this company would burn into the ground and stop completely ripping off us musicians. Its pathetic what they are doing.


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## ShadowFactoryX

Schattensturm said:


> yes they are, the owner is the same guy. atmf has a lot of shitty nazi stuff on their label i just detected. hurra for these firms.



this makes me upset and angry


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## Andromalia

Most of wannabe luthiers first builds on this site are made better.


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## Schattensturm

So, I finally was allowed (by the concumer protection) to send them the pictures. The acted shocked. Now they had the weekend to discuss and it's getting even better. They now tell me I did this to the guitar. I'm lacking of words being confronted with such a perkiness. I'm so fucking upset and I bet this is getting to court. Hands off these thieves!


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## capoeiraesp

Who is accusing you of doing 'damage' to the guitar? Emperion or consumer affairs?
I will gladly send you all of my pics from the piece of shit they sent me in the previous run and I will argue my case in support of yours of needed.


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## 13point9

'Rhythm in jump dancing close to you'

Fuck Roter this is DeVires shit right here


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## Schattensturm

Emperion accuses me of having done this! That's the sad point! I'm now waiting for what the Italian consumer agency has to say. I'd be glad if you supported me if this will end in a class-action lawsuit. It definitely will end in a suit as far as I can see it now.
Hands off Emperion, for the sake of guitars!


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## 7StringedBeast

LMAO! Since when people buy new guitars to fuck'em up?


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## Schattensturm

Yes, they accused me of using finish-stripper on the guitar. How the fuck and why the fuck should I do that... Plus it does not at all excuse the other flaws which all in all also would be reason enough to sue this firm because of fraud.


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## Edika

If you need pictures, emails and other information for the lawsuit to display how shady this company count me in. I got my money back barely, having a lot of patience and being lucky! But other people were stuck with these POS guitars or compromised!


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## Schattensturm

Thx a lot! I'll keep you updated when I get an answer from the Italian authorities. This has to end.


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## Schattensturm

Talking to lawyers now, I'll have to sue them it seems. Great...


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## Schattensturm

I started the suit and quit it after some weeks. Some other guy who has the same legal protection insurance quit his case after three years, I just got told. He'd had to fly to Italy to go to court. Hands off these assholes, you can't even sue them for being such scumbags!


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## Schattensturm

This firm builds shit on purpose, refuses to refund and is set up by the worst liars I've ever seen!


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