# What's wrong with Michael Keene?



## Velokki

This is not meant to be a thread to defame a person.
Especially because Keene has been perhaps the most important inspiration for me, in regards to composition and lead guitar playing.

So, after many years of being a fan, I decided to get his lessons late last year.
Basically, it went like this:
In the beginning of 2016, I e-mailed him of my interest in lessons, also dropped a couple of mails during the year. His communication was very poor. I mean, sometimes he'd answer and sometimes just not. In the beginning of December, we agreed to have 4 lessons for 150 dollars. I paid the man. We then set the date for our first lesson.

Well, at the agreed time, he didn't show up. Messaged me back about an hour after the agreed time that he thought it was another day. I'm no psychologist, but it felt like an excuse. But yeah, I took absolutely no offense and we agreed to have the lesson the day after. Well, same thing again, did not show up. I think he said that his Skype was not working. Well, absolutely a bull.... excuse. He could've used his phone, tablet or computer. He was unresponsive and did not show up anymore that night. Well, we agreed to push it back for the day after again.

To be honest, I can't remember if we also had one more no-show day like that, but in the end, we had the lesson (after over 1,5 hours of waiting past the agreed upon time, which was a bit of a pain since I do have a schedule). The lesson itself was good, and he seemed allright. It was mainly about production and did get some good information on topics I wanted to discuss, so it was good.

Well, after that we messaged a couple of times and it took a month or so to lock down the date for the second lesson. Well... he never showed up.

After this, now... 5 months? 5 months he's not answered my messages, and still has my 150 dollars. I've been very, very understanding and generous towards him, and gave absolutely no reason for any of this behavior.

Now about a couple of months back he had a Facebook post where he advertised lessons, and said just to contact him and let's set one up. Well, I just commented on the post somewhere along the lines that "perhaps you should do the remaining, paid-for lessons with other students first before taking new ones, you got my 150 dollars still, and haven't heard back from you in months"? Next time I checked whether he'd answered to the comment, the whole post had been deleted. I thought to myself that "duude, he must have a lot of audacity to just delete a post, without caring to answer me at all, since it was evident to both of us that he'd read it".

Also, I've messaged him every now and then (perhaps once or twice a month), and often when I messaged him on Skype, he popped online for a minute or two and then just went offline again. He just read the messages and didn't bother to answer.

Now, I'm not really concerned about the money, but it's the way I'm being treated like here. Him having totally no respect for a paying customer, is what bugs me. I put a request by PayPal for him to pay me back a couple of weeks back - unsurprisingly I never received anything.

Now today my friend linked me this:
http://lambgoat.com/news/28318/The-Faceless-cancel-tour-called-unprofessional-by-promoter

Basically I'm interested if any of you have had similar experiences with the man? Should I just continue to wait it out, or?

It just seems that he's completely in indifferent and cold. This hurts for me to say, since I've been obsessed with his work for the last 6 years or so, and has been without a doubt my number 1 influence in regards to lead guitar playing.

Does anyone know what his problem is? I'd gladly understand and help him out to the best of my abiity, and work with the situation we have, whatever it would be. I don't mind waiting for the lessons if he's having a tough time in his life or something. But he does not really give me, or seemingly others either, a whole lot of room or reasons to have any kind of respect for him.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

How does that saying go, about meeting one's heroes?

Sorry this happened.


----------



## jerm

Ya the whole The Faceless scenario is strange, constant lineup changes, constant cancelling of tours, release date postponing, etc. 

I dunno what he does exactly. They don't tour that much, and they've only released 3 album in what, 11 years....

That said, all their albums have been nothing short of amazing haha


----------



## ArtDecade

Great player, but a total tool otherwise.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Velokki said:


> Now today my friend linked me this:
> http://lambgoat.com/news/28318/The-Faceless-cancel-tour-called-unprofessional-by-promoter



If he can't make your Skype lesson on time no wonder this happened


----------



## Mike

Seems like drug addict behavior and depression.


----------



## domsch1988

I'm really sad to see things like this happen. I can really relate to this.

For 8 weeks i've been trying to get the members of my band to finalize our Album. Everything is recorded. The Engineer is sitting with premixes he's wanting to get reviewed so mixing can be finalized and mastering can begin.
4 people are unable to properly communicate with one another. I'm trying get something done 3 times a week and always hear the same excuses. We haven't practiced in months. Everytime we agree on a rehearsal date, one to 3 people just don't show up. It's a frustrating situation. I would be fine with everyone telling me they are done. We could then just get the album out and call this thing off. I could then just get back to normal life and focus on my own musical endeavours.

I often have the feeling, that working with musicians (especially when they are not doing music for a living) is really hard. I can't really count on anyone in this situation. Makes me really mad.

I can't stand people giving a word and then breaking it without even talking to me...


----------



## Zado

The Shameless


----------



## WishIwasfinnish

I've heard from some people that claim to know him that he's addicted to heroin. Seems like that would pretty much explain all this, and your missing money. Very sad, I hope he gets his .... together before he's dead.


----------



## Big_taco

Edit*

decided to stay out of the rumor mill.


----------



## bostjan

Not to make light of the OP's situation, but, in the early 1990's, when I was trying to get lessons with just random local guitarists around the Detroit area, I ran into much of the same sort of shenanigans. The difference being that you guys would have never heard of the guitarists who were paid to stand me up for my lessons when I was a teenager.


----------



## Unleash The Fury

What's wrong with Michael Keene?

Who?


----------



## stevexc

Unleash The Fury said:


> What's wrong with Michael Keene?
> 
> Who?



The Faceless


----------



## Smoked Porter

That's a real bummer man. Unfortunately, not surprising, given that it's Keene.



Unleash The Fury said:


> What's wrong with Michael Keene?
> 
> Who?




I've never understood the mentality of these sort of posts.


----------



## ittoa666

Seems like the Johnny Craig scandal all over again. Very unfortunate man. I hope somebody makes light of this ASAP.


----------



## USMarine75

ittoa666 said:


> Seems like the Johnny Craig scandal all over again. Very unfortunate man. I hope somebody makes light of this ASAP.



Hopefully more Johnny Craig and less Justin Lowe... 

I've been kind of depressed musically... it seems like every time I've discovered a new guitarist lately, I find out he died too young and left far too little material behind.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Smoked Porter said:


> I've never understood the mentality of these sort of posts.



I think he's being entirely genuine here.

If I didn't know who he was I probably wouldn't understand all the hubbub surrounding an artist who has released three CDs over a decade and hasn't released anything new in almost half a decade. 

There's some cosmic irony in that the artist who Keene himself sounded the most like, Necrophagist's Muhammad S., had a similar story: burst on the scene with a couple incredible releases, seem like the future of the genre, only to fizzle into obscurity.


----------



## Smoked Porter

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think he's being entirely genuine here.
> 
> If I didn't know who he was I probably wouldn't understand all the hubbub surrounding an artist who has released three CDs over a decade and hasn't released anything new in almost half a decade.
> 
> There's some cosmic irony in that the artist who Keene himself sounded the most like, Necrophagist's Muhammad S., had a similar story: burst on the scene with a couple incredible releases, seem like the future of the genre, only to fizzle into obscurity.



Fair enough. I guess I could be less cynical. 

Funny, yeah. It was a similar thing with Job for a Cowboy, at least success-wise. Their last album was actually really good though. Cool songwriting, and the guitar tone was the most vicious I've heard in a while on anything.


----------



## Floppystrings

People who are very creative usually have very active minds, and it can cause a lot of anxiety, which can lead to other bad things.


----------



## jerm

After reading all the facebook comments it really seems he has a heroin problem. 

If that's really the case, he should just admit to it, get the help he needs and stop putting his band through these lies.


----------



## Lasik124

I never liked that dude anyway...

Now I have a reason why, sorry to hear about this


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Unleash The Fury said:


> What's wrong with Michael Keene?
> 
> Who?



We'll get someone to cover one of their recent songs, that way you'll remember him.

And yeah, always heard the dude was a douche canoe. And that he's also (possibly) a junkie? Jeez.


----------



## Vres

He done f*cked up.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

I have had no personal interaction with Keene. So I'll just address the Lambgoat article that OP linked.

Keene has posted a lengthy statement on the events regarding the cancelled tour dates in Australia and New Zealand.

http://www.metalinjection.net/lates...ms-cancelled-flight-was-literally-a-nightmare


----------



## Dawn of the Shred

Man so sorry this happened to you! 

I took lessons from Jason Richardson and he was amazing with me! Always on time never a delay for any lesson, always willing to work on what you need to work on. I would suggest him to anyone.


I couldn't imagine if he would of done what keene do to the OP.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Accidentally posted in the wrong thread.


----------



## Velokki

Dawn of the Shred said:


> Man so sorry this happened to you!
> 
> I took lessons from Jason Richardson and he was amazing with me! Always on time never a delay for any lesson, always willing to work on what you need to work on. I would suggest him to anyone.
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine if he would of done what keene do to the OP.



I'll definitely keep that in mind.

Looking at the comments on Mike's post now, it seems that no more bull.... can be fed to the fans.


----------



## JustMac

Wow, between stories like this and the recent tour fiasco (and long-winded excuse on FB that rings a bit hollow), I'd say that unless he genuinely is an addict, he clearly exhibits a sociopathic disregard for other people -- what he did to you is disgusting.

Plus, the deceit behind making up an excuse like "our gear got stolen and we can't make do with backing tracks" is astounding (unless true, which I'm highly incredulous of) What was that bollocks about "we have orchestral pieces and saxophone solos, therefore any other setup won't do" nonsense? It's not like he hired the Sydney Symphony Orchestra for the gigs. 

What a sicko. Shame as well, because I must admit their music is pretty stellar. I imagine it's hard for you to even stomach his voice on record after being gazumped by him.


----------



## gorthul

Dawn of the Shred said:


> Man so sorry this happened to you!
> 
> I took lessons from Jason Richardson and he was amazing with me! Always on time never a delay for any lesson, always willing to work on what you need to work on. I would suggest him to anyone.
> 
> 
> I couldn't imagine if he would of done what keene do to the OP.



I can also recommend Tom Geldschläger (Fountainhead). I had some lessons in the past with him and everything went absolutely great.

I am also going to see The Faceless in July. After this story I am wondering if this is still going to happen or if their european dates will be canceled as well.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

JustMac said:


> Plus, the deceit behind making up an excuse like "our gear got stolen and we can't make do with backing tracks" is astounding (unless true, which I'm highly incredulous of) What was that bollocks about "we have orchestral pieces and saxophone solos, therefore any other setup won't do" nonsense? It's not like he hired the Sydney Symphony Orchestra for the gigs.


Honestly, I can understand holding yourself to a higher standard and not wanting to give fans a lame, half-assed, sub-par show. (And within the technical metal arena, a sub-par show always subjects you to intense ridicule.) You want to give fans the full package experience.

However, I do agree with you that Keene's novella rings a bit hollow. But he probably hastily posted that slew of excuse after excuse to social media to buy some time for an official statement to be made.


----------



## vilk

Frankly, "our bassist is in college" is the _opposite_ of an excuse for missing a tour.


----------



## TedEH

vilk said:


> "our bassist is in college"



I can think of lots of solutions for these kinds of problems. Could get a new bassist. Could get a temp guy. Could avoid making touring commitments when your band members aren't going to be available to fulfill them.

I feel for them if their gear really was stolen, but I don't buy the "we can't wing it" line either. If your music can't stand up to "winging it", you either have unrealistic standards, aren't great performers, or you're relying waaaaaay too much on the technical elements of your show. I don't care if you literally have to rent acoustics and do an improvised unplugged set, it still falls on you to deliver *anything* once you've made the touring commitment.


----------



## vilk

I expect a band with their gear stolen to do the show accapella. Use the openers gear. Can't do everything? Cut your set short, whatever. But perform.


----------



## domsch1988

vilk said:


> I expect a band with their gear stolen to do the show accapella. Use the openers gear. Can't do everything? Cut your set short, whatever. But perform.



100% agreed.
My Amp died at soundcheck one show. Played a one hour set of Folk Metal on the fender blues Jr. from the Band that played before us  Sure was "interesting", but great fun  The people that saw us before where a bit irritated at first, but it didn't keep them from moshing


----------



## elnyrb10

And isn't it customary to post pictures of the stolen gear all over social media? With serial numbers of the guitars and a list of everything you've lost? That would be my first thought if I had gear stolen. Not to wait until someone called me out, then go ".... our gear was stolen."


----------



## feraledge

jerm said:


> After reading all the facebook comments it really seems he has a heroin problem.
> 
> If that's really the case, he should just admit to it, get the help he needs and stop putting his band through these lies.



I've lost two family members to heroin. If that's the culprit here, he genuinely isn't "there" and he's the only one who could possibly pull himself out of that funk. That junk rewires your brain, you can completely lose who you are, so there's no talking sense to him option. Gotta bottom and figure it out. Recovery is years. 
All that money? Gone. 
No ill will on the dude, just hope it doesn't end badly as it most often does.


----------



## CreptorStatus

While I really can't comment on the whole heroin angle to this recent Michael Keene drama - I do remember listening to his most recent interview and he sure did sound a little off/high or something. His speech sounded weird to me and he seemed all over the place.

In the same interview he comments how the new album "In Becoming a Ghost" is lyrically about his recent "personal" struggles he has been dealing with. With the title and this comment from him its starting to sound like the addiction rumors could be true.

Really its too bad. Planetary Duality was a phenomenal record which brought a whole new generation of kids into the tech-death realm and influenced a whole wave of bands. I would more than happy if he pulled a Black Dahlia Murder/Cannibal Corpse and just stuck to that formula for the next 20 years releasing that type of album over and over. But that's just me.


----------



## Ralyks

Who's even in the band right now anyway? That Autotheism line-up with Hauch and Brewer was so good...


----------



## downburst82

CreptorStatus said:


> While I really can't comment on the whole heroin angle to this recent Michael Keene drama - I do remember listening to his most recent interview and he sure did sound a little off/high or something. His speech sounded weird to me and he seemed all over the place.
> 
> In the same interview he comments how the new album "In Becoming a Ghost" is lyrically about his recent "personal" struggles he has been dealing with. With the title and this comment from him its starting to sound like the addiction rumors could be true.
> 
> Really its too bad. Planetary Duality was a phenomenal record which brought a whole new generation of kids into the tech-death realm and influenced a whole wave of bands. I would more than happy if he pulled a Black Dahlia Murder/Cannibal Corpse and just stuck to that formula for the next 20 years releasing that type of album over and over. But that's just me.




I listened to a recent interview as well (probably the same one, Metal Wani?) and also kind of got the impression he might have been struggling with something.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Is there anything solid on the drug abuse, or are we just feeding the rumor mill?

And the flight issues actually could be legitimate. Seems that way.


----------



## works0fheart

Someone already said it once, it's a little odd that all of their gear got stolen and there was no posts about it at all, whatsoever until after this whole fiasco. Normally when something like that happens a band will post an alert about it. Sounds really shady.

Also, if a band can't plug in and play their material without a myriad of stupid equipment then they probably need to re-evaluate themselves as musicians because at that point they're relying too heavily on gear and not being realistic with what they're writing.


----------



## JustMac

^ That's so true about the equipment (and to the person who initially mentioned it!) . I would need to see proof of a police complaint being made before I even considered believing this hokum. 

What I don't get is how come the other band members are satisfied being complicit in all this? It's a horrible thing to mislead fans like that. Unless it is true, but like I said before I am highly suspect of that.


----------



## Petef2007

So Keene plays custom shop Jacksons, they apparently all get stolen, and we're only just hearing about it now. Alright then. I'd be up and down the country with a fine tooth comb if something that high end got stolen. 

"But teh saxophone solozzz!!!"

How about just show up and play stuff off Akeldama and Planetary Duality then, or the Autotheism stuff that didn't have a sax in it.

Nobhead who's making excuses for his own incompetence.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Ralyks said:


> Who's even in the band right now anyway? That Autotheism line-up with Hauch and Brewer was so good...


Justin McKinney of The Zenith Passage is the other guitarist. Brandon Giffin who was the original bassist for The Faceless is back on bass. Chason Westmoreland of Hate Eternal is the drummer. Ken Sorceron of Abigail Williams is the vocalist.


----------



## Ralyks

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Justin McKinney of The Zenith Passage is the other guitarist. Brandon Giffin who was the original bassist for The Faceless is back on bass. Chason Westmoreland of Hate Eternal is the drummer. Ken Sorceron of Abigail Williams is the vocalist.



Not a bad line-up. Although I wonder if that even still the line-up given this fiasco. The silence on everyone else's part is as questionable as everything else going on with this.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Petef2007 said:


> So Keene plays custom shop Jacksons, they apparently all get stolen, and we're only just hearing about it now. Alright then. I'd be up and down the country with a fine tooth comb if something that high end got stolen.



Thats the most unbelievable part. He's saying his Jacksons, Axe-fxs, laptop and whatever else he uses got stolen and he didn't and still hasn't posted a word online about what was stolen.


----------



## works0fheart

To be honest, I think the guy (Keene) writes some decent material, but it's pretty far from mindblowing to me and I think he's let a lot of success go to his head. If anything I think the other musicians that have played with him have been miles more impressive to me. Lyle Cooper is an amazing drummer, and it seems he's shining even more now in Abhorrent. Wes was an awesome guitar player and everything he's released has sounded awesome, and Evan Brewer is incredible as well. 

Still, despite my opinion of the band and its music being overhyped, the worst part of this is the op that had already paid Keene and still hasn't received a lesson from the guy. That right there is just some lowlife behavior. If the dude was too busy to take 1 hour out of his day to give someone a lesson then he shouldn't have been advertising them to begin with, and then to delete his comment about it when he advertised it again is just ridiculous. 

I wish everyone else that has been playing with the band the best, but I can only hope that this guy gets what's coming to him. That's no way for someone in his position to treat a fan, let alone for anyone to treat another person.


----------



## Petef2007

I'm going to guess at least one more lineup change will come of this soon. I can't imagine established musicians making a name for themselves wanting to get lumped in with more and more Faceless drama. 

Leaving aside the heroin rumors, Keene done goofed here, big time. I seem to remember them recording with PODs and gigging with Vettas at one point. I seem to remember Planetary Duality being recorded on a POD X3, and Autotheism being done with guitar rig. Why exactly can't they make it work with a Marshall again????

He's got a lot of saving face (lolololol) to do here and I just don't think he can do it. By the time the next record comes out he'll have pissed off everyone but the hardcore fans.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Petef2007 said:


> I seem to remember Planetary Duality being recorded on a POD X3



I'm gonna need a source for that one


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I'm gonna need a source for that one



I actually heard it was Vetta and Randall V2/T2, amps Keene has owned. PD definitely sounds like a V2, which has a lot of gain, but a kinda dry and tight gain. From what I've read, the Randall was his rhythm tone.

Listen to VoM's [id] and BoO's New Reign. They were also Recorded with Randall T2/V2s, and have a very similar sound to Planetary Duality's rhythm sound.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Listen to VoM's [id] and BoO's New Reign. They were also Recorded with Randall T2/V2s, and have a very similar sound to Planetary Duality's rhythm sound.


Bingo. Keene produced, recorded, mixed, and mastered both of those albums. (Pad Demolish was brought in for mixing and mastering on _The New Reign_ as well.) You can tell that the same amps were used on _Akeldama_, _The Common Man's Collapse_, and _The New Reign_. The guitar tones are exactly the same. It was around this time that Marc Okubo of Veil of Maya also began using a Randall V2 live which was the same head that he used while recording _[id]_.

Then when Keene went on to record _Planetary Duality_, he used the Randall T2/V2 head again. The tone was just more evolved and more polished. I'm not entirely sure if he used the Line 6 Vetta II HD head on _Planetary Duality_, but while touring after the release of the album, he was using the Vetta II live.

In this interview for Guitar Messenger (skip to around 6:04), Keene talks about how he goes for a more "Marshall" type of tone and he prefers to keep his rhythm tone dry and tight. He also briefly mentions the Randall head.


----------



## prlgmnr

works0fheart said:


> Also, if a band can't plug in and play their material without a myriad of stupid equipment then they probably need to re-evaluate themselves as musicians because at that point they're relying too heavily on gear and not being realistic with what they're writing.



Don't be daft, there's plenty of music that requires specific equipment and plenty that you could just do acapella with a couple of rocks to bang together as accompaniment but I don't think there's any reason to think of one sort being superior to the other.


----------



## drmosh

wannabguitarist said:


> Is there anything solid on the drug abuse, or are we just feeding the rumor mill?



just rumours and frankly I find it pretty disgusting people are perpetuating them as if they know the guy.


----------



## lovisjudeau

Velokki said:


> This is not meant to be a thread to defame a person.
> Especially because Keene has been perhaps the most important inspiration for me, in regards to composition and lead guitar playing.
> 
> So, after many years of being a fan, I decided to get his lessons late last year.
> Basically, it went like this:
> In the beginning of 2016, I e-mailed him of my interest in lessons, also dropped a couple of mails during the year. His communication was very poor. I mean, sometimes he'd answer and sometimes just not. In the beginning of December, we agreed to have 4 lessons for 150 dollars. I paid the man. We then set the date for our first lesson.
> 
> Well, at the agreed time, he didn't show up. Messaged me back about an hour after the agreed time that he thought it was another day. I'm no psychologist, but it felt like an excuse. But yeah, I took absolutely no offense and we agreed to have the lesson the day after. Well, same thing again, did not show up. I think he said that his Skype was not working. Well, absolutely a bull.... excuse. He could've used his phone, tablet or computer. He was unresponsive and did not show up anymore that night. Well, we agreed to push it back for the day after again.
> 
> To be honest, I can't remember if we also had one more no-show day like that, but in the end, we had the lesson (after over 1,5 hours of waiting past the agreed upon time, which was a bit of a pain since I do have a schedule). The lesson itself was good, and he seemed allright. It was mainly about production and did get some good information on topics I wanted to discuss, so it was good.
> 
> Well, after that we messaged a couple of times and it took a month or so to lock down the date for the second lesson. Well... he never showed up.
> 
> After this, now... 5 months? 5 months he's not answered my messages, and still has my 150 dollars. I've been very, very understanding and generous towards him, and gave absolutely no reason for any of this behavior.
> 
> Now about a couple of months back he had a Facebook post where he advertised lessons, and said just to contact him and let's set one up. Well, I just commented on the post somewhere along the lines that "perhaps you should do the remaining, paid-for lessons with other students first before taking new ones, you got my 150 dollars still, and haven't heard back from you in months"? Next time I checked whether he'd answered to the comment, the whole post had been deleted. I thought to myself that "duude, he must have a lot of audacity to just delete a post, without caring to answer me at all, since it was evident to both of us that he'd read it".
> 
> Also, I've messaged him every now and then (perhaps once or twice a month), and often when I messaged him on Skype, he popped online for a minute or two and then just went offline again. He just read the messages and didn't bother to answer.
> 
> Now, I'm not really concerned about the money, but it's the way I'm being treated like here. Him having totally no respect for a paying customer, is what bugs me. I put a request by PayPal for him to pay me back a couple of weeks back - unsurprisingly I never received anything.
> 
> Now today my friend linked me this:
> http://lambgoat.com/news/28318/The-Faceless-cancel-tour-called-unprofessional-by-promoter
> 
> Basically I'm interested if any of you have had similar experiences with the man? Should I just continue to wait it out, or?
> 
> It just seems that he's completely in indifferent and cold. This hurts for me to say, since I've been obsessed with his work for the last 6 years or so, and has been without a doubt my number 1 influence in regards to lead guitar playing.
> 
> Does anyone know what his problem is? I'd gladly understand and help him out to the best of my abiity, and work with the situation we have, whatever it would be. I don't mind waiting for the lessons if he's having a tough time in his life or something. But he does not really give me, or seemingly others either, a whole lot of room or reasons to have any kind of respect for him.



Hello to all of you, I just set up an account because I had the exact same experience with Michael Keene. It is really good and sad at the same time to hear that I am not alone with this. Velokki, I am sorry man :/. I guess you will not get either your money back or a guitar lesson with Mr. Keene. The whole thing seems to be a trick to get money. 

Must have been early 2016 as well, when I messaged Michael. I asked for lessons and he offered me the deal: 4 lessons = 150 Dollar. He also asked if I wanted to buy an audio interface (which luckily I did not). 
After I sent him the money we tried several times to find dates, he claimed to have problems with the time zones and never showed up. 
When I eventually decided to ask him to give my money back he stopped talking to me. I messaged and emailed him a thousand times, asked his bandmates to contact him (which they did) but all efforts failed. The only way was to let it all go, which I did except for when he posted on Instagram that "he doesn't owe anybody an album" - I could not resist and tell him that this may be true but he does owe me 150 bucks  (he blocked me on Instagram for that...). 

I agree that it is really sad to get f***ed over by a musician that you look up to. I can not stand to listen to The Faceless anymore (lucky me there are The Zenith Passage, Gorod and Black Crown Initiate). 

To everybody considering taking online lessons for whatever subject, please look into a person before you send them money especially via Paypal friends and family. A famous person does not necessarily make a good teacher. If there are many happy students you should be good to go. 
In terms of guitar or production themed lessons I can recommend Francesco Filigoi of Abiogenesis. He taught me a lot over the last few years and he also linked me to this thread. 

Does anybody have an idea how to proceed or should we just let it go?


----------



## Santuzzo

So sorry for those guys of you who had this extremely disappointing experience with Michael Keene.
To me personally aside from being unhappy (to say the least) about losing a chunk of money without receiving lessons in return, the even bigger let-down and disappointment would be seeing a musician/artist that I'd look up to and respect a lot behave in a manner that destroys the image I have had of that person. 
I personally would not be able to enjoy their work anymore.

I have had the opposite experience where I met a musician that I admired and they turned out to be very cool in person and that just made me admire them even more. 
In this case you described here I would probably lose all respect for the artist.... it's a huge disappointment.


----------



## Velokki

lovisjudeau said:


> Hello to all of you, I just set up an account because I had the exact same experience with Michael Keene. It is really good and sad at the same time to hear that I am not alone with this. Velokki, I am sorry man :/. I guess you will not get either your money back or a guitar lesson with Mr. Keene. The whole thing seems to be a trick to get money.
> 
> Must have been early 2016 as well, when I messaged Michael. I asked for lessons and he offered me the deal: 4 lessons = 150 Dollar. He also asked if I wanted to buy an audio interface (which luckily I did not).
> After I sent him the money we tried several times to find dates, he claimed to have problems with the time zones and never showed up.
> When I eventually decided to ask him to give my money back he stopped talking to me. I messaged and emailed him a thousand times, asked his bandmates to contact him (which they did) but all efforts failed. The only way was to let it all go, which I did except for when he posted on Instagram that "he doesn't owe anybody an album" - I could not resist and tell him that this may be true but he does owe me 150 bucks  (he blocked me on Instagram for that...).
> 
> I agree that it is really sad to get f***ed over by a musician that you look up to. I can not stand to listen to The Faceless anymore (lucky me there are The Zenith Passage, Gorod and Black Crown Initiate).
> 
> To everybody considering taking online lessons for whatever subject, please look into a person before you send them money especially via Paypal friends and family. A famous person does not necessarily make a good teacher. If there are many happy students you should be good to go.
> In terms of guitar or production themed lessons I can recommend Francesco Filigoi of Abiogenesis. He taught me a lot over the last few years and he also linked me to this thread.
> 
> Does anybody have an idea how to proceed or should we just let it go?



Oh man... Yeah, Francisco actually sent me a msg, good that you also told your own story!

What an arrogant, psychopath piece of .....
Definition;
_"Its not easy to spot a psychopath. They can be intelligent, charming, and good at mimicking emotions. They may pretend to be interested in you, but in reality, they probably dont care.
Theyre skilled actors whose sole mission is to manipulate people for personal gain, Tompkins says."_
Now does that ring home or what? :/

I'm feeling two very distinct feelings. At one side, I feel absolutely pissed for what a total dick he is. I mean, he just stole my money, and yours. Makes me wanna punch the guy.

Secondly, I do pity him. If he really is a heroin addict who's just totally lost control of his behavior and responsibilities, and is well on his way to be the next Blake Judd... well, then I think it's just really sad, and there's a part of me who wants to just help him out, and get him out of this mess.

But yeah, he's always clearly been self-centered and egoistic, but that I could tolerate. I just thought to myself that, well, he's just a creative genius and often those kinds of people aren't exactly normal, let him be like he is. But now that he's basically screwed me over for 150 dollars... I do feel sad and angry at the same time.


----------



## aesthyrian

Gee that blows. Just know that there are plenty of other guitarist that are even better than Keene that are professional and will actually keep to their commitments. Hopefully you can find someone that cares enough about the fact that you paid them for a lesson. 

That's just disrespectful as hell IMO, and just because he may be your hero doesn't mean he can treat his paying customers like garbage and expect anything good to come out of it.


----------



## works0fheart

prlgmnr said:


> Don't be daft, there's plenty of music that requires specific equipment and plenty that you could just do acapella with a couple of rocks to bang together as accompaniment but I don't think there's any reason to think of one sort being superior to the other.



Then whip up a backing track that has whatever you need and play your guitar, drum, and bass parts normally. This isn't hard.


----------



## USMarine75

aesthyrian said:


> Gee that blows. Just know that there are plenty of other guitarist that are even better than Keene that are professional and will actually keep to their commitments. Hopefully you can find someone that cares enough about the fact that you paid them for a lesson.



Rick Graham, Andy James, Paul Gilbert...


----------



## isomorphic

this thread can be answered with one word:

heroin.

it is common knowledge here in los angeles where the faceless is based. everyone in the tech scene knows the dude is a probable junkie. 

just remember that when theres smoke theres usually fire. how many years of sh1t has this band gone through, how many album delays, tour cancellations, member and management changes, severed ties, and overall assery. The common denominator is keene. the dude is a massive douchebag who literally had jesus candles made where his face is photoshopped over jesus christ.

He is a clear sociopath, as evidenced by the 2 people he scammed itt, his years of blatant lies fans believe, and general history. 

I might be sounding melo-dramatic right now, but the bottom line I do not feel sorry for probable heroin addict narcissists like him.


----------



## Draceius

isomorphic said:


> this thread can be answered with one word:
> 
> heroin.
> 
> it is common knowledge here in los angeles where the faceless is based. everyone in the tech scene knows the dude is a junkie.
> 
> I might be sounding melo-dramatic right now, but the bottom line I do not feel sorry for heroin addict narcissists like him.



Please stop spreading rumours about drug addictions, it's not pleasant to accuse people of especially if it's false and it's something extremely serious that a lot of people battle with. Keene has made a lot of .... ups and this situation is pretty bad, but can we not just discuss it without immediately jumping to "must be drugs".


----------



## GunpointMetal

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably spent your money on junk.


----------



## prlgmnr

"Crack, crack, crack".... ducks near me never shut up about it.


----------



## Velokki

It seems that the heroin addiction is a very real thing. If you just google Michael Keene + heroin, you get a ton of results. There's no way for the claims to have _no_ truth behind them. So many different people over several years' time couldn't be _totally_ in the wrong.

I just watched some clips about the effects of heroin, and one of the most common symptoms is very severe constipation. Interestingly enough, I remember him saying once that he can't do the lesson right now, he's so badly constipated and has cold sweat all over. Might be coincidence, but well... yeah.


----------



## Draceius

Velokki said:


> It seems that the heroin addiction is a very real thing. If you just google Michael Keene + heroin, you get a ton of results. There's no way for the claims to have _no_ truth behind them. So many different people over several years' time couldn't be _totally_ in the wrong.



I did exactly that and on the first 3 pages of google the only result claiming he was a heroin addict was a comment on MetalSucks, outside of that I found this singular tweet from 2011 https://twitter.com/keenemachine/status/89797585782587392 which is a bit suspect. Aside from that, absolutely nothing, I'd love to see something that actually backs this up somewhat because it really just feels like a rumour with no substance. I'm not ruling it out and the band issues and cancelling etc could all be because of drug related issues, just nothing points that way apart from fans claiming it every time there's band issue.


----------



## ArtDecade

If he is on drugs, at least he has an excuse for his actions. Otherwise, he is just a total jack off.


----------



## TedEH

ArtDecade said:


> If he is on drugs, at least he has an excuse for his actions.



I don't think that would excuse anything, even if it was the case.


----------



## JustMac

Velokki said:


> Interestingly enough, I remember him saying once that he can't do the lesson right now, he's so badly constipated and has cold sweat all over. Might be coincidence, but well... yeah.



If he ever does come up with some excuse for you, be sure to do the Columbo "just one more thing" before that constipation-interrogation. He'll be rumbled for sure!




What a p.o.s though, is there absolutely no avenue you can go down for services paid through Paypal? 

Also, drugs don't excuse anything. Still a lying, conniving prick.


----------



## isomorphic

Draceius said:


> Please stop spreading rumours about drug addictions, it's not pleasant to accuse people of especially if it's false and it's something extremely serious that a lot of people battle with. Keene has made a lot of .... ups and this situation is pretty bad, but can we not just discuss it without immediately jumping to "must be drugs".



lol make me, dude. im not spreading anything false, i'm telling you what has been told to me from bands who have toured with him, as well as friends of people whove quit the band. 

from my understanding keene would steal money from the band, part of the reason they quit. 

even if somehow it wasn't drugs, he is a complete dick and deserves no sympathy.


----------



## isomorphic

TedEH said:


> I don't think that would excuse anything, even if it was the case.



this.


----------



## ArtDecade

TedEH said:


> I don't think that would excuse anything, even if it was the case.



I didn't say it was a good excuse, but I think most people would understand his actions coming from a drug addict. Otherwise, he is a just a total wanker stealing from people because he feels like it. And the latter is almost worse.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

.


----------



## isomorphic

> Even if it were the case at this point



you are incredibly thick. how much more evidence do you want? you want justin mckinney to snapchat keene shooting up a fatbag? 

regardless of if keene is a junkie or not, his character has alienated promoters, bandmates, management, and fans. 

him being a probable junkie is just a probable reason he exhibits chronic sociopathic behavior.

maybe if you had a junkie friend like I have you'd understand. but keep playing the moral superiority card.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

isomorphic said:


> you are incredibly thick. how much more evidence do you want? you want justin mckinney to snapchat keene shooting up a fatbag?
> 
> regardless of if keene is a junkie or not, his character has alienated promoters, bandmates, management, and fans.
> 
> him being a probable junkie is just a probable reason he exhibits chronic sociopathic behavior.
> 
> maybe if you had a junkie friend like I have you'd understand. but keep playing the moral superiority card.



How about you post some fucking evidence then dude, you haven't said or shown ANYTHING to support your claims other than " some people told me he's into drugs". This rumor mill bullshit is so god damn annoying. One guy in this thread said it sounds like drug addict behavior and all of a sudden he's a full blown addict whose been at this for years? The thing about the candles with him as Jesus are clearly a joke, anyone with half a brain should be able to see that, especially considering the theme of Autotheism which is what the candles were for in the first place. But I guess that just means he's a sociopath right?

Stealing money from anyone makes you a garbage person no matter how much or how little you took or how many people you stole from, those actions are inexcusable. *IF* he is suffering from some kind of addiction then I sincerely hope he's able to get clean, the dude writes some of the sickest tech-death I've ever heard and breathed new life into a sub-genre that starts to get pretty stale after a while.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

.


----------



## isomorphic

> I know. I never said anything to the contrary.
> Also,
> I live in Seattle. I do have junkie friends. I'm not taking a moral high road at all. This whole thing reminds me of 4chan conspiracies, this is metal's ....ty pizzagate.
> "He's a flaky guy and someone in a comment section said he's a heroin addict, it must be so!"
> I find it funny how aggravated you get by someone opposing your belief that it's all fine and dandy to paint a guy as an addict. Like it's somehow more controversial to cast doubt than to just declare him an addict.
> Okay buddy.



if you could read, you'll see im using the qualifier "probable". but keep lacking in reading comprehension. 

also keep downplaying the fact that people close to keene have claimed him being a heroin user. you have 0 insight and access to the los angeles death metal scene. 


im not aggravated, im baffled at how naive people like you people can be.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

.


----------



## isomorphic

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> How about you post some fucking evidence then dude, you haven't said or shown ANYTHING to support your claims other than " some people told me he's into drugs". This rumor mill bullshit is so god damn annoying. One guy in this thread said it sounds like drug addict behavior and all of a sudden he's a full blown addict whose been at this for years? The thing about the candles with him as Jesus are clearly a joke, anyone with half a brain should be able to see that, especially considering the theme of Autotheism which is what the candles were for in the first place. But I guess that just means he's a sociopath right?
> 
> Stealing money from anyone makes you a garbage person no matter how much or how little you took or how many people you stole from, those actions are inexcusable. *IF* he is suffering from some kind of addiction then I sincerely hope he's able to get clean, the dude writes some of the sickest tech-death I've ever heard and breathed new life into a sub-genre that starts to get pretty stale after a while.



again, another ass claiming superiority while having 0 connection to the la death metal scene AND downplaying years of ....ty sociopathic behavior.

you really think im going to name sources of people who have claimed keene is a heroin user? you're an idiot. I'm not going to snitch, but my god.


----------



## JustMac

Nice to see the fact-checking police in full self-righteous mode.


----------



## ArtDecade

https://twitter.com/keenemachine/status/89797585782587392?lang=en

This link establishes that he knows what a heroin dealer looks like.


----------



## GenghisCoyne

works0fheart said:


> Then whip up a backing track that has whatever you need and play your guitar, drum, and bass parts normally. This isn't hard.



damn your genre defining band must sound really good live


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Just going out on a limb here. If he was a good dude who didnt steal money from people no body would care if he was a junkie. And no forum bros would be talking about it.

If hes on drugs that sucks but i dont thinkany less of him for the drugs.

He is either a) an asshole or b) an asshole on drugs.... Either way if you arent an asshole no one will care


----------



## isomorphic

Dineley said:


> Just going out on a limb here. If he was a good dude who didnt steal money from people no body would care if he was a junkie. And no forum bros would be talking about it.
> 
> If hes on drugs that sucks but i dont thinkany less of him for the drugs.
> 
> He is either a) an asshole or b) an asshole on drugs.... Either way if you arent an asshole no one will care



thissssssssssssssssssssssss


----------



## Demiurge

Let's get back on topic.

I did some research and found that what has been suspected is actually true.

You can order custom religious candles with your face on them on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/GoSaintYourself


----------



## Velokki

Hey dudes.

I have not seen a more ridiculous, immature forum fight with no winners in a long time. I wish the last 2-3 pages of the thread could be deleted because they provide nothing, and drive away people who could actually have something to say.

Now, I think it's 100% confirmed that Keene can be a total dick. So, so many comments on this topic, and more credibly, I've talked to one ex-Faceless member + one very recognized artist who's toured with them. I hope you understand why I won't want to name them.
First; this "recognized artist", had this to say when I asked him:
"Well... I don't know what his upbringing was like, but let's just say I've had multiple experiences with Keene that were less than positive"

Also, that ex-member of the band, said this;
"Well, it really bums me out to be out of the Faceless, since it's pretty much my favourite band in the genre. But before joining the band, Keene could've told me about his issues and these things he's going through. I respect the man just enough not to talk this in detail, so let's just keep it at that"

This is not to say that he can also be an amazing dude when he feels like. In many interviews he seems like the nicest guy. And I really do want to like him, but he's giving a lot of people quite a hard time to do so.


----------



## rocky0

I seriously hope Keene sorts his .... out some day. A great musical mind wasted because of his mental instability and possible drug addiction. This may end up bad for him if he truly is using heroin. 

And lol at these dudes pingponging for the last few pages. Please just leave if you don't have nothing else to contribute than repeating yourselves.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Wow this thread went off the rails quick. This site DOES have a private message function.

Anyway, as someone who's been dicked around on my travel plans before, Keene's story does actually sound plausible...I get the skepticism on the robbery though, that sounds a bit whack. But it'd be interesting to say if he can come up with the proof he mentioned. 

To be honest if nothing else comes out of this whole mess I'd at least like some insight on why the album still hasn't been released...wasn't it supposedly finished months ago?


----------



## oompa

Demiurge said:


> Let's get back on topic.
> 
> I did some research and found that what has been suspected is actually true.
> 
> You can order custom religious candles with your face on them on Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/shop/GoSaintYourself



Yes let's talk about this instead, they're marvellous. 

Do they ship to Europe?


----------



## Velokki

Well, yeah. Even though I do love funny gifs, what if we refrained from spamming and killing the thread?  In many respects, after a flamy fight, the following 10 people who _comment_ on a forum fight are no better than the knights of the flame war.

P.S. I did message Keene again. Popped online to read the messages. No answer.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Shout-out to the mods for deleting three pages worth of non-contributing material and banning that kid.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Shout-out to the mods for deleting three pages worth of non-contributing material and banning that kid.



If I had the power to remove my own posts I would have in retrospect. Apologies for the sh1tshow guys. 
Anyone heard anything relevant lately?


----------



## lovisjudeau

Haha this escalation  
Thanks for getting back to topic. I see it like this: Michael Keene is a stranger to me. I can only judge him by his actions (which is what we should limit ourselves to in this thread): He stole money from at least two people. 

The only thing we can do is carry it to the broader public right? Maybe some other people got scammed. Maybe it puts him under enough pressure to answer if these actual facts would spread to his fanbase instead of the drug rumors. 
This is not a cry for justice or punishment, I hold myself responsible for trusting some stranger on the internet. But I do think that his fans and possible students should know what they might or might not get for there good money. 

Maybe we should invite him to this thread


----------



## chopeth

The faceless have a festival next Saturday in Barcelona, Spain where they head it with huge supporters as Beyond Creation and Obscura... Do you think this guy Keene is coming? (not that I can go, but just curious)


----------



## anomynous

They said they're coming, not that it means anything anymore


----------



## Velokki

Well, I have an idea. Anyone going to Barca this saturday? If you are, providing the tourless show up, it'd be awesome if you get the chance to talk to Keene and ask straight up about why he's not doing these guitar lessons that have been paid for. Or see his reaction when you'd ask humbly and then raise your voice: "Hi Mike, I've always been a huge fan of yours... i was just wondering... EVER SHOT HEROIN UP DAT SKINNY ARM, BRO?"


----------



## chopeth

Not sure what is "Barca" but I'm not the kind of person who likes to ridicule anyone with a serious problem publicly no matter how ass he is.


----------



## Velokki

chopeth said:


> Not sure what is "Barca" but I'm not the kind of person who likes to ridicule anyone with a serious problem publicly no matter how ass he is.



It's a short for Barcelona.

Well, the thing is, there's so many people defending him and saying that these heroin rumors should not be spread if there's no proof at all, no statement from the man himself.

I think asking him straight would give him a chance to tell what's up, even if it wasn't a direct answer, like "yeah I'm an addict". You could also do it in a civil way in private, and just ask if he's had any problems with substance abuse, is there any truth to the claims? From his answers you could probably tell whether he did.


----------



## Draceius

chopeth said:


> Not sure what is "Barca" but I'm not the kind of person who likes to ridicule anyone with a serious problem publicly no matter how ass he is.



Barca is short for Barcelona.

Edit: Ninja'd


----------



## chopeth

Nah, I was ironic, "Barca" means "bout" in Spanish, it's "Barna". You're confused with "Barça", not the same letter, and that is the short version of the football team, which is Barcelona indeed, but nobody calls the city Barca

As you may see, I still couldn't care less about Keene except for the music, not bashing or defending him.


----------



## Velokki

chopeth said:


> Nah, I was ironic, "Barca" means "bout" in Spanish, it's "Barna". You're confused with "Barça", not the same letter, and that is the short version of the football team, which is Barcelona indeed, but nobody calls the city Barca
> 
> As you may see, I still couldn't care less about Keene except for the music, not bashing or defending him.



I know that only FC Barcelona is supposed to be called that, but I've heard the city itself called Barca so many times. Last time I visited, I even got a card from the hotel, which read "Welcome to Barca!" and had many recommended attractions in it. Wrongful use, maybe, but I've seen it used many times. Be an elitist de linguas if you want to, but once again, people have already ruined your world beyond repair with the wrongful use of that word 

And I actually care about Keene. I just listened to Autotheism and Spiraling Void quite a lot last week, after a long while. Amazing guitar lines and overall writing. He's such a special musical mind, that losing that kind of talent to drugs or mental health problems would be a real bummer.

I'd have absolutely no problem in telling him that he's behaved like a total a dick who should sort his .... out, and giving him a nice, firm punch to the ballsacks. But I'd be willing to help him out immediately after. If he really has deep problems, other people systematically pulling him down is the last thing he needs.


----------



## chopeth

Velokki said:


> I know that only FC Barcelona is supposed to be called that, but I've heard the city itself called Barca so many times. Last time I visited, I even got a card from the hotel, which read "Welcome to Barca!" and had many recommended attractions in it. Wrongful use, maybe, but I've seen it used many times. Be an elitist de linguas if you want to, but once again, people have already ruined your world beyond repair with the wrongful use of that word



No problem, I am a Spaniard living in my country for almost 40 years now, visited Barcelona like 10 times, have close relatives there, lived with Catalans for years and NEVER listened to Barca as a short form for Barcelona. Anyway, call it whatever you want, I won't be offended. 

About the Keene thing, I have nothing else to say


----------



## drmosh

well, eu gigs are cancelled...

https://www.facebook.com/uktechfest/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED&fref=nf


----------



## CreptorStatus

Wow man. This is just ridiculous.


----------



## anomynous

I bet Justin McKinney bails soon


----------



## Velokki

anomynous said:


> I bet Justin McKinney bails soon



Oh man, you gotta be right. I actually think we're gonna see a total wipeout of members again. I mean, these guys are pro musicians, right? How could they ever plan a month financially, if their income source is as reliable as this?

Official statement by the band should follow. I hope Keene just comes clean this time, admits it all to be his fault, and gets help.

EDIT: I was thinking again of the reason for the Euro cancellation. I think it must be because their management couldn't sort the dates out with a good symphonic orchestra who would perform with them, and a full IT team to handle their backing tracks. I mean, it ain't called TECH death for no reason!


----------



## 86TS

Hi all, let me share another Keene story that I don't think is out there allready. 

Back in 2009 I believe it was, he was lined up to mix and master the first full length album of my band (The End of All Reason), Artifacts. He demanded a good chunk of money (1K, 2K, I can't remember) upfront, which we paid and seemed fair enough. 

By now you can guess what happened... nothing really  months went by, hilariously sad excuses were being made ("my studio is flooded" and "my girlfriend's dog is ill" still being my favorites) and we got 1 preview of a song (it didn't sound great). 

It might sound like I'm not taking it too seriously, which I'm not anymore, but at the time, when personal savings of band members were invested into the album, going all out to make a difference, I assure you, it was not.

So with him holding our money kidnapped and postponing the release of our album by a whole year (which meant we lost credibility, good tour opportunities and interest from some high level record labels), we had to finally arrange (read: force) a meeting 
while he was on tour in Belgium (which is where we were based), to go backstage and reclaim our money. Which he gave us back in cash, on the spot without arguing. 

It's a sad, sad moment when someone who you looked up to hands you your money back and mumbles some apologies.

Like I said this happened about 8 years ago and we never went public with this as a band, and even though I personally hold it against him that he played a huge roll in the loss of motivation in me as a musician and triggering the beginning of the end of my band because of said poor motivation, I never wrote about this on any forum and didn't think I ever would, since it has been so long ago. But why the hell not. It can still annoy the crap out of my thinking about it.

Not long after, we learned that another tech death band from the States (i will not mention the name) got the same treatment and called it quits too not long afterwards... At least we found some solace by getting in touch with each other through facebook, sharing the horrible experience.

Anyways, there's that


----------



## Velokki

Man, that's awful to hear.

I honestly don't understand why people should be silent anymore. These kind of things need to go public. Music business should be transparent, as should any business. We are not scared to write a negative restaurant review if we receive bad service.

It's funny. I was also scared to take this public, in fear of other people thinking of me as spreading negativity about another person, being deemed as a "hater".
But it's only logical that if I'm wrong, people will correct me, and if I'm right, messages that support my story will surface.

I think, that on this case, it's evident what's the conclusion. Another friend of mine, who's played in quite a big act in the scene, messaged me an hour ago:
"Hey man! Yeah i know he was a junky i can't say for certain he is now. But i would assume so as hes still an intolerable flake. Im sorry you got ripped off have you contacted him? Gone public?"

If you think about it, if Keene was an upright, reliable guy and all, would a shitstorm like this surface? I'm amazed at how well he has avoided all the negative publicity.


----------



## bostjan

That's a very sad story, "but at least you got your money back." I'll explain the reason for the quotation marks below.

For those who have not dealt with the experience of paying for a professional studio release, there are a lot of fees and costs aside from paying the recording and mixing engineers. In our case, we had to rent the space from the studio, pay the recording engineer, pay the mixing engineer, and then there was close to a thousand dollars spent on promotion long before we even go to the point where we realized things went south.

In my case (this has nothing to do with Keene, BTW), I allowed things to spiral quickly from what seemed like a good idea to save some face to the point where my band embarrassed itself by releasing a bomb. It's a rather long story, but the main motivating forces were me trying to make the most of money already spent and a seemingly endless series of lies from our producer. Between getting screwed over and losing a ton of money and my rash decisions off the cuff at the time, it really demoralized the band, and we never recovered from it. IF we had received our money back, I truly don't think it would have made any difference, in the long run.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Velokki said:


> I honestly don't understand why people should be silent anymore. These kind of things need to go public. Music business should be transparent, as should any business. We are not scared to write a negative restaurant review if we receive bad service.



Just the way things are. Someone has to take the first step in sharing their bad experience. Once other people who had the same issue see someone being open about, it gives them a chance to join in. 

I can see WHY people would want to be quiet, though. The fear of being ridiculed my people because of someone being so revered, yet treated you like shit.


----------



## cip 123

86TS man that sucks, I'd love to hear the album if you guys ever got it out?


----------



## 86TS

cip 123 said:


> 86TS man that sucks, I'd love to hear the album if you guys ever got it out?



Oh we did release it eventually (2 years after recording it), but only digitally. It's on Spotify and the likes. There's a couple of tracks uploaded to YouTube as well. Look for "The end of all reason" "artifacts". Hope you like it!


----------



## jerm

86TS said:


> Oh we did release it eventually (2 years after recording it), but only digitally. It's on Spotify and the likes. There's a couple of tracks uploaded to YouTube as well. Look for "The end of all reason" "artifacts". Hope you like it!


Just listened to you guys, this is legit good


----------



## 86TS

jerm said:


> Just listened to you guys, this is legit good


Thank you sir!


----------



## cip 123

86TS said:


> Oh we did release it eventually (2 years after recording it), but only digitally. It's on Spotify and the likes. There's a couple of tracks uploaded to YouTube as well. Look for "The end of all reason" "artifacts". Hope you like it!



Dude tell me you're at least in a new project or something cause this is sick! Listening on youtube and loving it.


----------



## 86TS

cip 123 said:


> Dude tell me you're at least in a new project or something cause this is sick! Listening on youtube and loving it.


Glad you like it man! Naah, we're all pursuing different, non musical things lately. Maybe one day, who knows.


----------



## cip 123

I'm telling you dude, either all of you, or you personally should definitely have a project going. This is better than Keene at this point


----------



## dongh1217

86TS said:


> Oh we did release it eventually (2 years after recording it), but only digitally. It's on Spotify and the likes. There's a couple of tracks uploaded to YouTube as well. Look for "The end of all reason" "artifacts". Hope you like it!



impressive work dude \m/ respect


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Hopefully he can at least squeeze out the new album before the band goes under. Cancelling two full tours? Nobody will wasn't to deal with Keene again after this.


----------



## mikah912

Lorcan Ward said:


> Hopefully he can at least squeeze out the new album before the band goes under. Cancelling two full tours? Nobody will wasn't to deal with Keene again after this.



I'm not at all hopeful. Google "Michael Keene Faceless Record Done" and get ready for heartbreak.

The first time he claimed it was January of 2015! The second result is Justin McKinney saying as much in July of last year. We're going on almost 12 months since _he_ claimed it was "pretty much done" except for the vocals. 

Then, in April of this year, Michael Keene said:

"The current status is this: all tracking is done. Mixing is done. Basically I'm in the mastering stage. I kind of mix and master at the same time, so it's kind of final touches of the mix and just getting the mastering tweaked just right on the record. Which is literally like, we're talking a couple days here. The master will be turned into Sumerian in just a few days. And I was very explicit with them that I did not want them to set a release date until I turned the masters in.

"Because on previous records there were release dates set and then things ended up taking longer and of course what's the last that happens, the last thing is the mix. So the mix is the thing that suffered. On 'Planetary Duality' for instance I essentially didn't mix the record because there was no time.

"They told me that if I didn't get the record to them in 24 hours that we were going to miss street date. And I stayed up all night, worked for 24 hours. I had listener fatigue, so I couldn't even hear the mistakes I was making. And I turned it in as was and then come to find out it sat on their desk for 10 days before they even turned it into the press plant.

"So I had 10 days I could have worked on the mix and could have gotten it great, but instead that happened and now I have to live with it forever—well I don't have to live with it forever because I'm actually doing a re-mix of 'Planetary Duality'—re-mix/remaster of 'Planetary Duality'—which will be hopefully released next year as a ten year anniversary. But anyway, all that to say, that in the next few days the record will be turned in and street date will follow shortly after...

"We're looking at most likely August. I would say with very high likelihood August will be the month that it's coming out."

I want to believe, buuuuut........


----------



## sezna

Wait is he saying a remix is gonna be out in august or the new album? also he said a few days and then said august?


----------



## squids

86TS said:


> Glad you like it man! Naah, we're all pursuing different, non musical things lately. Maybe one day, who knows.



well for what it's worth, whoever you had produce your album was amazing. maybe you guys should get back together and play in place of the faceless
(hopefully with your original drummer, his blast beat is crispy )


----------



## Repner

I love how this thread progressed from talking about the OP being ripped off, to a debate on shaming drug problems, then finally to discussing a hopeful End Of All Reason reunion. Hey. Successful, promotion is successful.


----------



## squids

sezna said:


> Wait is he saying a remix is gonna be out in august or the new album? also he said a few days and then said august?


the planetary duality 10-year-anniversary is next year (2018), so i imagine he'll release the remix in 2022  
and august for "in becoming a ghost" but don't hold your breath


----------



## drmosh

I for one hope he gets the new CD done so I have some awesome metal to listen to


----------



## anomynous

The album is done, it should be in Sumerian's hands.


----------



## CreptorStatus

anomynous said:


> The album is done, it should be in Sumerian's hands.



Source?

Also, still no official comment from The Faceless about the European tour cancellations. Kind of weird..


----------



## anomynous

CreptorStatus said:


> Source?


The fact that it was being mastered months ago, Justin & Ken have certainly implied so on facebook, and their ex-manager has a copy.


----------



## drmosh

oh well then, given all the proof you've provided we have no choice but to trust you


----------



## MattThePenguin

drmosh said:


> oh well then, given all the proof you've provided we have no choice but to trust you


----------



## anomynous

drmosh said:


> oh well then, given all the proof you've provided we have no choice but to trust you



BRB, going back through months of Ken & Justin facebook posts to find the comments where they've said it

"sick album"

I also know people who have the finished tracks off the album, as I posted previously. can't really prove that though.


----------



## Viginez

so this thread turned into a shameless album promo despite people like ts being ripped off left and right?
is this gonna help ts?


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

anomynous said:


> The fact that it was being mastered months ago, Justin & Ken have certainly implied so on facebook, and their ex-manager has a copy.



Unfortunately, especially given the context of this thread, it should be obvious that people don't always say things that are entirely true. Just because they say it is, doesn't quite mean it is. Furthermore I'd be inclined to believe that if it was in Ash's hands when they said it was, he probably would have put it out by now. It wouldn't make sense for them to sit on a completed record for that long; especially from one of their bigger names. 



drmosh said:


> oh well then, given all the proof you've provided we have no choice but to trust you



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Overarching theme of the thread<



Viginez said:


> so this thread turned into a shameless album promo despite people like ts being ripped off left and right?
> is this gonna help ts?



Hey man, Keene could go out and start randomly punching cripples and it still wouldn't make Autothiesm any less awesome. 
Just sayin'.


----------



## Uncreative123

To continue beating this horse, I thought I'd offer a different perspective. I've met Keene on a couple of different occasions and he's been really chill each time. I completely understand the guy who got banned not wanting to reveal his sources/who he knows as I was close with people he lived with (2012/2013 era) and stayed at the house as well. 
I've never heard anything about the drug usage until this thread, but then again I don't follow metal band gossip too closely. To the people who got burned, it sounds more like just a shitty personality trait than drugs. I absolutely know people who behave just like that. They're just shitty, flakey people- not drug addicts. Very frustrating.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Hey man, Keene could go out and start randomly punching cripples and it still wouldn't make Planetary Duality any less awesome.
> Just sayin'.



Fixed.


----------



## anomynous

https://www.facebook.com/SumerianRe...60175836907/10155444713171908/?type=3&theater


it's happening


----------



## AliceLG

CreptorStatus said:


> Source?
> 
> Also, still no official comment from The Faceless about the European tour cancellations. Kind of weird..



It gets even weirder. I got a notification from Eventim that the concert in Hamburg had been cancelled and to send them the ticket to get my money back. 2 days later an event popped up on the band's Facebook page, so I thought maybe the concert would go as planned. Then I checked the venue's web page and saw that not only it's been cancelled but they already have another band scheduled for that night. Whose pants are on fire?


----------



## JimF

AAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh excited!
Just hope its not another demo track that turns out worse on the album (Eidolon Reality).


----------



## Drezik27

anomynous said:


> https://www.facebook.com/SumerianRe...60175836907/10155444713171908/?type=3&theater
> 
> 
> it's happening



I really hoe they drop a single today and not just announce they are on the US Summer Slaughter.


----------



## squids

Drezik27 said:


> I really hope they drop a single today and not just announce they are on the US Summer Slaughter.


i'm willing to bet that they're just on summer slaughter, earlier this week sumerian said they had "one more very special guest" joining the tour. probably just sumerian throwing them a bone after all the bad luck they've had lately, i saw justin mckinney quit his job to go on those last few tours that were cancelled so i kinda believe them....i guess....


----------



## MattThePenguin

https://www.facebook.com/events/254...93170,\"tour_id\":null}"}],"has_source":true}


"Details

Summer Slaughter Tour
The Black Dahlia Murder (performing "Nocturnal" in its entirety) 
Dying Fetus, Oceano,The Faceless, Slaughter to Prevail, Origin, Rings Of Saturn, Betraying the Martyrs, Lorna Shore, Decrepit Birth

Age: All Ages to Enter, 21 & Over to Drink
Door Date: 07/28/2017 1:30 pm
On-sale Date: 06/09/2017 12:00 pm"

"The Faceless"

whoops


----------



## mikah912

Wack.


----------



## anomynous

And it's only the tour announcement. Lame as hell.


----------



## drmosh

That's a nice gesture to EU fans that had purchased tickets for now cancelled gigs, with no explanation (like me!). Then again, they don't owe me shit I guess


----------



## MikeH

They actually kind of do. Bands at their level don't function without fans who purchase albums, merchandise, and concert tickets. Not to mention you already paid for the gigs they had promised to put on. So, really, they 100% owe you what you paid for.


----------



## drmosh

MikeH said:


> They actually kind of do. Bands at their level don't function without fans who purchase albums, merchandise, and concert tickets. Not to mention you already paid for the gigs they had promised to put on. So, really, they 100% owe you what you paid for.



Since I got a refund I guess I got what I paid for? But in principle of course you are correct


----------



## Velokki

I flew to UK from Finland in 2013 to see them on multiple shows. On the runway I received a txt that the gigs had been cancelled. Oh well, it became a weekend vacation for me and my gf then.

Now cancelling a tour - I get it. Cancelling 5 tours I don't get.
Also, stealing hundreds of dollars I don't get.
Not offering an explanation for the EU tour cancellation... I don't get.
Making a guitar cover contest for Accelerated Evolution and never picking the winner... I don't get.
Changing band members more often than underwear... well, it sure does tell something.

Being a reasonably big band, and having the communicational skills of an autistic chimpanzee, is what bugs me. The Faceless is probably the worst of all bands regarding communications with fans. There's no interaction, no interesting posts, no hype material for the new record, no fun. It's just a total wasted opportunity. Honestly, they could be so much bigger if they exploited the social media like Periphery and actually communicated with people. I've been a really big fan of the band and would've dished a lot more money at them if they just provided the opportunity. The covers album didn't happen, the EP didn't happen, the live album didn't happen, current merch is stale, tours don't happen.

Why, oh why, The Faceless, do you make it so hard to love you...


----------



## squids

Well i'll be damned.


----------



## isomorphic

production is awful for a band of this caliber. sounds like ezmix 2 lol.


----------



## squids

isomorphic said:


> production is awful for a band of this caliber. sounds like ezmix 2 lol.


arent you the guy that's been calling keene a drug addict w/o evidence?
i think the production sounds great. maybe he wasnt lying and he really has been taking this long on the mix. ken sorceron sounds frickin awesome too. i will say tho the drums sound a little....superior drummer-esque. either that or that chase guy hits everything very precisely


----------



## isomorphic

arent you the guy who cant read? (a: yes)

in b4 I get banned for literally doing nothing but having an opinion on the song. It sounds like a trebly mess.


----------



## anomynous

Fuck me, that song is great.


----------



## squids

isomorphic said:


> arent you the guy who cant read? (a: yes)
> 
> in b4 I get banned for literally doing nothing but having an opinion on the song. It sounds like a trebly mess.



Wow. i didn't know your insults were "isomorphic" to a 3rd grader's. that's ok if you don't like it, you just seem to be taking a lot of opportunities to crap all over a guy you don't know. 
i think the mix is a lot like JFAC's Sun Eater.


----------



## Selkoid

isomorphic said:


> production is awful for a band of this caliber. sounds like ezmix 2 lol.



I wouldn't go THAT far haha. I initially listened to it on some closed back headphones (probably with some low end boost) and I really enjoyed the production on this track, it sounded really sweet. Listening now on my monitors and I'm not getting the same impression, sounds like a lot of high end on the entire track and a lot of pick attack all over the guitars, like they need a little more body or something. The song is cool and it's mixed well, maybe it's just a stylistic choice. 

What does everyone else think about the production on Black Star so far?


----------



## isomorphic

squids said:


> Wow. i didn't know your insults were "isomorphic" to a 3rd grader's. that's ok if you don't like it, you just seem to be taking a lot of opportunities to crap all over a guy you don't know.
> i think the mix is a lot like JFAC's Sun Eater.



puts words in my mouth then calls me a 3rd grader for not liking the production on this track. #you



> sounds like a lot of high end on the entire track



yes. a ton


----------



## Velokki

I loved the mix, but then again, I appreciate Keene's journey for the tightest, sterile, digital-sounding low-gain guitars.

Man, I love Keene's writing. Fucking bravo.


----------



## squids

Selkoid said:


> I wouldn't go THAT far haha. I initially listened to it on some closed back headphones (probably with some low end boost) and I really enjoyed the production on this track, it sounded really sweet. Listening now on my monitors and I'm not getting the same impression, sounds like a lot of high end on the entire track and a lot of pick attack all over the guitars, like they need a little more body or something. The song is cool and it's mixed well, maybe it's just a stylistic choice.
> 
> What does everyone else think about the production on Black Star so far?


after a few more listens, i wish it had more distortion, more like the mix on spiraling void/autotheism. its a lot like the zenith passage, which isn't extraordinarily interesting imho. maybe the rest of the album will be different, as i remember reading that he mixed each song differently for different vibes.


----------



## MattThePenguin

Man I love this band but I just cannot get behind how the drums sound on pretty much anything they do past Planetary Duality. Song is excellent though, and I fucking LOVE the bass


----------



## works0fheart

Doesn't really sound like what I would expect from the Faceless as I hate everything they've put out until this point. I'm not super impressed by this track either, but the clean section was pretty cool. The track is very Cynic-esque, but not enough to make me enjoy it unfortunately...


----------



## mikernaut

I like the song , but yeah, the mix is very off putting and sterile, almost like when Maynard James Keenan is doing his vocals through a megaphone. not balanced basically , I'm hoping this is just what they did for a teaser , otherwise :/


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I like it, they've taken the technical side down a few notches. Mix is a little weird but I'm delighted to just finally have new music from these guys.

Keene said this is heavily influenced by Isahn and and played on 7s in Drop A.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

The new song is alright, nothing too crazy but the clean break in it sounded pretty cool. Maybe its just the headphones I'm using to listen to it but are the drums super loud to anyone else? They drown out a bit of the guitar work which is bummer. I think I'm just not into the sound Keene is going for these days, to me Planetary Duality represents exactly what I'd want to hear from The Faceless, especially drum-wise, the drums on Black Star and Autotheism just sound programmed and boring. Lyle Cooper is the drummer this band desperately needs. I also wish Keene would stop trying to sing on every song, he seems to get worse the more he tries to force it in, he sounded just fine on Akeldama and PD.


----------



## Semi-pro

Like the song a lot! Very cool. The mix could indeed use some tweaking here and there though. The drums are too compressed/limited to my taste, which bothers especially in the quiet parts. Clean vocals could be dope if they only weren't so over-manipulated...

Call me simple, but sometimes things like that don't matter to me if the band and the musicians give good vibes in general.


----------



## aesthyrian

New song is cool, production is crap. Everything is so hollow and empty. Those drums are just annoying sounding.

Shame, I finally dig something by The Faceless. But with all the drama and cancellations I'm not sure how much I should bother, seems I'll only be continually let down.


----------



## Peter.F

127 everywhere on those drums. I have no problems listening sampled drums, but when they are that obvious it is impossible for me to picture an actual drummer playing.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Peter.F said:


> 127 everywhere on those drums. I have no problems listening sampled drums, but when they are that obvious it is impossible for me to picture an actual drummer playing.


Haha, this was my first thought too. 127s everywhere.



Lorcan Ward said:


> I like it, they've taken the technical side down a few notches. Mix is a little weird but I'm delighted to just finally have new music from these guys.
> 
> Keene said this is heavily influenced by Isahn and and played on 7s in Drop A.



Pretty much this. In my opinion the mix is good, but something about it *does* feel a little off- likely due to the abovementioned drum programming. 
Content-wise though, I'm really, really liking it. Both this one and The Spiraling Void have been my favorite Faceless material since Akeldama, although I suppose I'm in the minority around here with my opinion of Akeldama > Autothiesm > Planetary Duality. Really hope this album is a real thing because I'm pretty sure it'll probably be my next favorite.


----------



## Eptaceros

Spends months mixing. Finally comes through with this laughably bad mix. Sounds like he just ignored the entire sound spectrum and lumped everything into a far, trebly corner.

Did he mix these on Beats headphones?


----------



## Velokki

Eptaceros said:


> Spends months mixing. Finally comes through with this laughably bad mix. Sounds like he just ignored the entire sound spectrum and lumped everything into a far, trebly corner.
> 
> Did he mix these on Beats headphones?



Haha, true, but Keene has stated multiple times that he has a very specific, different-than-most, taste regarding how metal should sound. He aims for everything to be cold, sterile and tight.

I like the music, production is a mixed bag, but mostly I like it. But he uses Waves GTR for even live tones. WAVES. GTR.


----------



## Big_taco

Sounds like a natural progression of the Faceless sound. I dig it and it reinvigorates my interest in hearing a new album.


----------



## primitiverebelworld

I have always liked The faceless but would rather hear R35 Armitrix instead of wawes gtr. waves..


----------



## Eptaceros

Velokki said:


> Haha, true, but Keene has stated multiple times that he has a very specific, different-than-most, taste regarding how metal should sound. He aims for everything to be cold, sterile and tight.
> 
> I like the music, production is a mixed bag, but mostly I like it. But he uses Waves GTR for even live tones. WAVES. GTR.



Yeah, I can understand that. I think he nailed that vibe on Planetary Duality, and did so in a way with enough aggression and body that still made everything have a hard punch. But this is just...ugh. I'm listening to this on my monitors that are extremely even, EQ-wise, and there is nothing but high-mids and treble. It almost sounds like he took a full mix, put two spikes in the higher frequencies, and shelfed the lower half of the mix.


----------



## isomorphic

Eptaceros said:


> Spends months mixing. Finally comes through with this laughably bad mix. Sounds like he just ignored the entire sound spectrum and lumped everything into a far, trebly corner.
> 
> Did he mix these on Beats headphones?



lol'ed irl at this. I wouldn't doubt it. It's unlistenable.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I wouldn't call it unlistenable, but damn the production sounds flat as fuck. Sounds like I'm listening to it in a cardboard box. Even Akeldama had better production.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Eptaceros said:


> Yeah, I can understand that. I think he nailed that vibe on Planetary Duality, and did so in a way with enough aggression and body that still made everything have a hard punch. But this is just...ugh. I'm listening to this on my monitors that are extremely even, EQ-wise, and there is nothing but high-mids and treble. It almost sounds like he took a full mix, put two spikes in the higher frequencies, and shelfed the lower half of the mix.



Which is kind of funny, considering how outspoken Keene is about how much he dislikes the way the production on PD turned out.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

The new song sounds like a Toontrack-fueled EZMix and Superior Drummer mess with stock presets. There is no way that Sumerian has been sitting on this for so long. Keene must have hurriedly scraped it together and released it to the Internet as a means of damage control.


----------



## isispelican




----------



## mikah912

squids said:


> i think the mix is a lot like JFAC's Sun Eater.



Wow, I had to step in on this one.

I LOVE Sun Eater. This sounds nothing like that record aside from the prominent bass.

The guitar tone on that record is ripping and saturated. The solos are piercing and fluid. It was clearly recorded with a real guy drumming on a mic'd kit.

"Black Star" - on the other hand - sounds like everything people say they hate about guitar VSTs. The drums....well, everyone's covered it already. There's also just way more life and energy to Sun Eater. Listen to "Black Star", then listen to this:


----------



## isomorphic

"certainly my best mix and master thats for sure" that interview haha


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

mikah912 said:


> Wow, I had to step in on this one.
> 
> I LOVE Sun Eater. This sounds nothing like that record aside from the prominent bass.
> 
> The guitar tone on that record is ripping and saturated. The solos are piercing and fluid. It was clearly recorded with a real guy drumming on a mic'd kit.
> 
> "Black Star" - on the other hand - sounds like everything people say they hate about guitar VSTs. The drums....well, everyone's covered it already. There's also just way more life and energy to Sun Eater. Listen to "Black Star", then listen to this:




Yeah, that's miles better. There's some things about the mix that's claustrophobic, but it's not as squished and boxy as Black Star.


----------



## squids

mikah912 said:


> Wow, I had to step in on this one.
> 
> I LOVE Sun Eater. This sounds nothing like that record aside from the prominent bass.
> 
> The guitar tone on that record is ripping and saturated. The solos are piercing and fluid. It was clearly recorded with a real guy drumming on a mic'd kit.
> 
> "Black Star" - on the other hand - sounds like everything people say they hate about guitar VSTs. The drums....well, everyone's covered it already. There's also just way more life and energy to Sun Eater. Listen to "Black Star", then listen to this:



I totally agree with this, aside from the celestial antidote is definitely not the example i would have used. wasn't bagging on sun eater, as that is one of my top 10 albums for sure. i still don't think black star is that awful, could be youtube quality, or idk. i gave it a few more listens today and felt it was pretty good. keene does sing a lot, which isnt so good (some major baliwood vibes there hahaha) but ken sounds fantastic.



Lorcan Ward said:


> I like it, they've taken the technical side down a few notches. Mix is a little weird but I'm delighted to just finally have new music from these guys.
> 
> Keene said this is heavily influenced by Isahn and and played on 7s in Drop A.


I read somewhere that justin mckinney doesn't like 7 strings, and i don't think he has any from kiesel, i wonder if theyll play anything new on tour (if they play anything at all  ). sounds like 7s though so that's cool.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I think this sounds fucking fantastic. Yeah the velocities are a dead give away but preference is everything right?


----------



## squids

justin mckinney plays the last solo. had a feeling which he confirmed on his instagram story.


----------



## Blasphemer

I just set up my home studio, and Black Star was coincidentally one of the first things I listened to at a decent volume. The mix is so hollow and bad, I thought it was standing waves in my room making a null in all the low mids. Compared it with my soundcheck playlist, and wow. I dont know how he can call this his "best mix ever"


----------



## marcwormjim

He was referring to the speedball.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

marcwormjim said:


> He was referring to the speedball.



I kind of feel bad for laughing but I did. As always.
Dude, never change.


----------



## JimF

Anyone else really not like the song?


----------



## jerm

^Most of the comments that I've seen so far have been very polarized, either loving it or hating it


----------



## Seybsnilksz

JimF said:


> Anyone else really not like the song?



Yes, it's a big trend whenever a technical or prog metal band puts out anything new.

Personally I couldn't care less for the drums sounding "fake". It's all about taste, and I wish people would stop talking about it like it's an objectively bad mix.


----------



## Nick4764

JimF said:


> Anyone else really not like the song?


I have to agree, everything about this song is terrible and even after listening to it multiple times there wasn't a moment that stuck with me except one riff (which sounded exactly like the main riff in Akeldama played in drop A) and how abruptly it ended. I'm pretty disappointed, especially after how awesome and memorable The Spiraling Void was. I guess we will just have to wait 2 years until Michael Keene releases another track


----------



## squids

Nick4764 said:


> I have to agree, everything about this song is terrible and even after listening to it multiple times there wasn't a moment that stuck with me except one riff (which sounded exactly like the main riff in Akeldama played in drop A) and how abruptly it ended. I'm pretty disappointed, especially after how awesome and memorable The Spiraling Void was. I guess we will just have to wait 2 years until Michael Keene releases another track


Idk, when the spiraling void came out, it was on itunes as a single the next day, and its been a few days with no update at all, i get the feeling something big is coming, hopefully album news/release date. plus with chon's album coming out friday i doubt sumerian will want to overshadow any of that news, so maybe next week...? 
the song is polarizing and while i don't have high hopes for the album, i'm still probably going to buy it. it's fucked up that OP got shafted by keene and it seems like overall he's pretty much a total dick but this is one of those kanye west things; the guy sucks as a person but he tends to make good music (i hate kanye's music but tons of people say he's the best) and you can't argue with good music.


----------



## savage

Separating the artistry from the individual, I must say I'm actually enjoying the song. Sure the production values may not be stellar, but it's far from horrid; I've listened to much more grating recordings that still managed to retain their musicality (e.g. Black Metal).


----------



## rocky0

That song was all over the place. Not that impressed tbh. Spiraling Void was far more coherent as a song.


----------



## sezna

Seybsnilksz said:


> Yes, it's a big trend whenever a technical or prog metal band puts out anything new.
> 
> Personally I couldn't care less for the drums sounding "fake". It's all about taste, and I wish people would stop talking about it like it's an objectively bad mix.



I don't know if not liking songs is considered a trend, haha. I just think this song is uninspired and it sounds like a guy trying to fulfill a contract with Sumerian.


----------



## Seybsnilksz

sezna said:


> I don't know if not liking songs is considered a trend, haha. I just think this song is uninspired and it sounds like a guy trying to fulfill a contract with Sumerian.



How can you have the opinion that a song is uninspired? If it's a song that the composer is happy with but you don't like it, is it then "uninspired"?


----------



## sezna

Seybsnilksz said:


> How can you have the opinion that a song is uninspired? If it's a song that the composer is happy with but you don't like it, is it then "uninspired"?



Hm. I just use the word to describe music that sounds like they phoned it in. No idea if he actually did or not, just the vibe i get from it. It isn't that bad, because Keene phoning it in is still better than a lot of music out there, but I think that he has put out better. Sorry, I probably could have picked a less presumptuous word.

I think my opinion is being colored by the long wait fact that I have been listening to planetary duality nonstop recently.

Also I recognize that as a fan I can only provide my feedback, and overall it is pretty useless as I don't know what Keene was going for and I have only listened to it twice. I will still be jamming this more.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

sezna said:


> Hm. I just use the word to describe music that sounds like they phoned it in. No idea if he actually did or not, just the vibe i get from it. It isn't that bad, because Keene phoning it in is still better than a lot of music out there, but I think that he has put out better. Sorry, I probably could have picked a less presumptuous word.



I use the term "B side" for this since the artist or band wasn't putting 100% into it. On an album you'd call it filler.


----------



## ArtDecade

The song sucks.


----------



## works0fheart

ArtDecade said:


> The song sucks.



Lmao. 

I like how there are all of these super long, elaborate opinions on this song on this page and at the bottom I just see this. I agree with you though.


----------



## isomorphic

> How can you have the opinion that a song is uninspired?



because that's how opinions work


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Seybsnilksz said:


> How can you have the opinion that a song is uninspired?



By the song being boring?


----------



## Seybsnilksz

If the composer was inspired while writing the song, but you think it's boring, then it's not "uninspired". People can complain about music they don't like all they want, but it kinda grinds my gears a bit when they use words that implies that the composer did a shitty job when in reality they have no idea how the composer felt during the process.


----------



## ArtDecade

You can see Keene's amp in the background of the new album cover.


----------



## TedEH

Seybsnilksz said:


> words that implies that the composer did a shitty job when in reality they have no idea how the composer felt during the process


"did a sh*tty job" is a measure of the end result- how the composer felt during the process has nothing to do with it. Uninspired is just being used as shorthand for boring- it's a pretty common use of the expression. It's not meant to be taken literally.


----------



## prlgmnr

Seybsnilksz said:


> If the composer was inspired while writing the song, but you think it's boring, then it's not "uninspired". People can complain about music they don't like all they want, but it kinda grinds my gears a bit when they use words that implies that the composer did a shitty job when in reality they have no idea how the composer felt during the process.



You're missing the possibility of a composer mistakenly thinking themselves to be inspired.


----------



## sezna

didnt realize id cause a fuss. I thought the term was pretty commonly used for this kind of thing.


----------



## ArtDecade

sezna said:


> I thought the term was pretty commonly used for this kind of thing.



It is... except in Skövde, Sweden apparently.


----------



## Seybsnilksz

It's commonly used yes, and that annoys me a bit. People talk too objectively about music, which is a very subjective thing. But I guess that's my problem.


----------



## sezna

Seybsnilksz said:


> It's commonly used yes, and that annoys me a bit. People talk too objectively about music, which is a very subjective thing. But I guess that's my problem.



I get what you are saying, but I think most people (and definitely myself) are not objectively saying something is bad, rather, they are objectively stating their own opinion. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who would actually try to argue _everyone _should think this song is bad.

edit: anyway we are getting off topic now. Back to the Keenester.


----------



## stevexc

I actually didn't hate the song. But I generally don't like tech death at all, so what I liked about it is probably exactly what most of you guys disliked about it.


----------



## lovisjudeau

I really like the new song. It makes me happy to see The Faceless get back to making music and bringing out an album. This might lead to a EU tour and opens the possibility for me to ask Keene about my money (and Velokkis) in person.


----------



## inaudio

Seybsnilksz said:


> ...which is a very subjective thing. But I guess that's my problem.



I'm sorry, but I just have to share this.


----------



## ArtDecade

^ I was hoping the payoff in that comic strip would have provided a guffaw.


----------



## Seybsnilksz




----------



## nyxzz

Personally I liked the song, but I am also a fan of the direction he was moving in with Autotheism, minus the r/atheism tier theme. I initially listened to Black Star on some beats bluetooth earbuds and it didn't sound too bad but when I played it again on my monitors it sounded super hollowed out, nothing at all like the Spiraling Void mix. Sounds like it was rushed out or something. Lol at there ever being a remaster of Planetary Duality, we can only dream.


----------



## marcwormjim

Did anyone else get cancer from that comic?


----------



## prlgmnr

marcwormjim said:


> Did anyone else get cancer from that comic?


Can't draw, can't think of an original idea, I know, I'll make a comic!


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

I'm one of the last guys to complain about a "mix" because it seems like a lame hipster thing to do unless its blaringly obvious. But in this case, I can hear what some of you guys are saying that the mix is a bit weak. I like the song itself though.


----------



## jo5huaa

Just going to drop this here since this thread has really deviated from it's initial topic


----------



## drmosh

that is, in a strange way, admitting guilt. I'm sure that's not what was intended but this tabloid bullshit rumour shit needs to stop


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

drmosh said:


> that is, in a strange way, admitting guilt. I'm sure that's not what was intended but this tabloid bullshit rumour shit needs to stop



Yeeeeeah I would have ignored that. I mean, I understand defending yourself, but singling-out and getting over-defensive by using your band's FB page is not a good idea.


----------



## Scud7011

Why would he bring up opiates when the guy he was replying to made no mention of them? Looks to me like he just slipped up badly.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Scud7011 said:


> Why would he bring up opiates when the guy he was replying to made no mention of them? Looks to me like he just slipped up badly.



Probably mentioned it in a reply that wasn't shown.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Because that's what people are accusing him of.
The guy doesn't live in a bubble, he's got to hear what people are saying. Word around town is that he's an opiate addict. If people start accusing him of being on drugs, that's what he's going to assume they're talking about.
He's kind of screwed now, because whatever he says, people are going to interpret it in a way that makes him guilty. I feel bad for him, but at the same time, he wouldn't be in this situation if he kept his shit together. I dunno.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

drmosh said:


> that is, in a strange way, admitting guilt.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

drmosh said:


> that is, in a strange way, admitting guilt. I'm sure that's not what was intended but this tabloid bullshit rumour shit needs to stop


wat


----------



## mikernaut

cue some humor- " I usually get a little extra bloodflow when I hear Teh Faceless, but this mix deflated my mast and now my pirate ship is hopelessly adrift" ( I did like the song in general though)


----------



## marcwormjim

At this point, I fear the face of the faceless may be remembered for failing to live up to expectations.


----------



## gunch

_Hmm I wonder what Even Brewer is up too 
Entheos?
Oh. Oh my god. _


----------



## anomynous

Can't tell if that's supposed to be negative or not. Entheos is killer.


----------



## gunch

anomynous said:


> Can't tell if that's supposed to be negative or not. Entheos is killer.



Oh my god as in 






And this is AFTER learning about Animosity and it being my new favorite band ever and it's legacy/band members through the years 

Was also wondering where LeVrier went after Letchford's meltdown


----------



## brector

silverabyss said:


> _Hmm I wonder what Even Brewer is up too
> Entheos?
> Oh. Oh my god. _


He is also working on another solo album!


----------



## isomorphic

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Because that's what people are accusing him of.
> The guy doesn't live in a bubble, he's got to hear what people are saying. Word around town is that he's an opiate addict. If people start accusing him of being on drugs, that's what he's going to assume they're talking about.
> He's kind of screwed now, because whatever he says, people are going to interpret it in a way that makes him guilty. I feel bad for him, but at the same time, he wouldn't be in this situation if he kept his shit together. I dunno.



I basically say the same thing a month ago and everyone gets on my ass. Now crickets. LOL.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

isomorphic said:


> I basically say the same thing a month ago and everyone gets on my ass. Now crickets. LOL.



You made it sound like the rumors were true and were getting overly-defensive. He was just saying there were rumors.


----------



## isomorphic

> You made it sound like the rumors were true



You have 0 evidence of this.



> overly-defensive



HAHAHAHA. Laughing and calling people out for having low reading comprehension =//= overly defensive. I will lump you in with them.



> He was just saying there were rumors.



I said I have direct sources in Los Angeles, where the Faceless is based, along with pretty much the entire LA scene saying he's a probable junkie.

Now some random-ass dude from Chico (nowhere near LA) is saying the same thing.


----------



## ArtDecade

isomorphic said:


> I said I have direct sources in Los Angeles, where the Faceless is based, along with pretty much the entire LA scene saying he's a probable junkie.


----------



## works0fheart

This thread is so cringe inducing it's unreal...


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY




----------



## isomorphic

ArtDecade said:


>



yeah post this to me but not the dude who lives 8 hours from LA. Proving my point to a tee. I am still lmao


----------



## isomorphic

me: Hey so I've been following the Faceless for 10 years, live in their hometown. Seen them probably 15 times. I have friends in the scene and some have toured with the faceless. Lots of rumors the guy is a junkie

7 string forum: you have no evidence!!! hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

random dude from chico: yeah "word around town" is he's a junkie

7 string forum: ............................................................................


----------



## ArtDecade

That bloke isn't claiming a source. You are. Stop being the kid that walks around saying, "I know a secret."


----------



## isomorphic

I'd rather be that then the defenders of Keene itt who are complete hypocrites and only call me out when I have the same conclusion. gtfo

if your whole argument against me is saying I'm being a tool for saying I have sources, please google what a red herring is. Then look in the mirror.


----------



## squids

"a dried smoked herring, which is turned red by the smoke." huh, weird.
ANYWAYS

any other news from OP? 
maybe hit up justin mckinney for lessons instead of keene? that guy seems like he'd be understanding and help you out in some way.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

isomorphic said:


> random dude from chico: yeah "word around town" is he's a junkie



The internet is not a place where you should take everything literally.


----------



## isomorphic

k


----------



## prlgmnr

isomorphic said:


> me: Hey so I've been following the Faceless for 10 years, live in their hometown. Seen them probably 15 times. I have friends in the scene and some have toured with the faceless. Lots of rumors the guy is a junkie
> 
> 7 string forum: you have no evidence!!! hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
> 
> random dude from chico: yeah "word around town" is he's a junkie
> 
> 7 string forum: ............................................................................


If it makes you feel better you can go back and read all those posts saying there's no evidence and imagine they came after the most recent accusation, rather than demanding that everyone post them a few more times.


----------



## isomorphic

I have all the evidence I need lol. You random forum dudes can deny anything you'd like and call me all the names you care to - I think it's hysterical how you're acting.

One day the evidence will become more widespread and I will bump the fuck outta this thread and lmao


----------



## marcwormjim

Leave Britney alone!


----------



## Jonathan20022

isomorphic said:


> I have all the evidence I need lol. You random forum dudes can deny anything you'd like and call me all the names you care to - I think it's hysterical how you're acting.
> 
> One day the evidence will become more widespread and I will bump the fuck outta this thread and lmao



Who cares if he does or doesn't smoke or do anything in his spare time? Are we going to devolve to TMZ level bullshit and ostracize musicians for what they do in their own free time? FFS. This dude's behavior is so childish, no one really cares about what your or your friends gossip about all day.


----------



## isomorphic

I'm going to tell you a secret, bro. It seems you don't know that (hard) drugs are bad and make people do bad things. I highly suggest you google behaviors of people who do them cause it's obvious you don't know shit.

If you don't hold musicians to standards of high character, if you enable them to steal from and fuck over fans who spend money on plane and concert tickets - I hate to break it to you but you suck hairy ass.


----------



## squids

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Because that's what people are accusing him of.
> The guy doesn't live in a bubble, he's got to hear what people are saying. Word around town is that he's an opiate addict. If people start accusing him of being on drugs, that's what he's going to assume they're talking about.
> He's kind of screwed now, because whatever he says, people are going to interpret it in a way that makes him guilty. I feel bad for him, but at the same time, he wouldn't be in this situation if he kept his shit together. I dunno.


seems like Ordacleaphobia was just saying that because there are rumors that he's on opiates, then keene is going to feel like that is what people are going for when they talk shit, because he probably reads all the shit slinging about him. no where does it say he's guilty or even implies it, just an analysis of his current situation, in terms of social media.



isomorphic said:


> me: Hey so I've been following the Faceless for 10 years, live in their hometown. Seen them probably 15 times. I have friends in the scene and some have toured with the faceless. Lots of rumors the guy is a junkie
> 
> 7 string forum: you have no evidence!!! hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
> 
> random dude from chico: yeah "word around town" is he's a junkie
> 
> 7 string forum: ............................................................................


you seem to just take one sentence out of an entire paragraph and take it as a personal insult. what was it you said earlier?...


isomorphic said:


> arent you the guy who cant read?


...maybe reconsider that statement before going off on "random dude from chico"


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

This thread is an embarrassment.


----------



## works0fheart

I'm waiting to see the same person get banned twice in one thread.


----------



## sezna

can we limit our attacks to being about music and not personal character based on rumors? if the dude does have drug problems, that sucks and we shouldn't be dicks. if he doesn't, it sucks that we behave like this, and we shouldn't be dicks.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

sezna said:


> can we limit our attacks to being about music and not personal character based on rumors?



I mean I'm all for attacking him if he keeps acting like a douchenozzle and canceling shows. 

But not from unsubstantial rumors.


----------



## sezna

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I mean I'm all for attacking him if he keeps acting like a douchenozzle and canceling shows.
> 
> But not from unsubstantial rumors.


lol. that's why I added "based on rumors".


----------



## works0fheart

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to get behind that bullshit. I don't agree with Iso completely, but honestly, fuck junkies and anyone who throws their lives and talent away on quick fixes. I've been around these type of people more than enough to know that 9 out of 10 of them are scum. This thread started with multiple people saying they were ripped off by Keene. Even if he wasn't on drugs, he's still a low piece of shit for that alone, not to mention all of the randomly canceled shows. Don't show sympathy for these people unless they're actively trying to make an effort to better themselves.


----------



## isomorphic

^agree

The bottom line is almost all the Keene defenders and/or holier-than-thou basement guitarists itt seem to have no understanding that people like Keene should not get a free pass from his shit behavior just because -they- (basement guitarists who probably have a small circle of other basement guitarists) personally have no evidence Keene is a user. 

-They- most likely have never dealt with someone like Keene, and if they did, they still feel sympathetic because "everyone has problems" (excusing shitty behavior).

-They- are probably the same people who would let a band crash at their house when their parents are on vacation, then, when they wake up and see their interface stolen they shrug their shoulders, buy another, then make more Periphery covers.

-They- are probably the same people who say their favorite guitarist "is a really great guy" after talking with him for 2 minutes at a merch booth

-They- are probably the same people who never call a spade a spade - rather give excuse after excuse (basically mimicking Keene's bitch behavior)

-They- are probably the same people who think Rings of Saturn "does a great job of marketing" with their "epic memes"


----------



## ArtDecade

I don't know if Keane does drugs, but I am convinced that he banged Isomorphic's girlfriend.


----------



## isomorphic

omg lol he went there! what a douchenozzle 

in b4 I get banned for "name-calling" when I'm parodying the same cringe 7 string posts I've seen since I joined in 2013/not "name-calling"


----------



## Velokki

Isomorphíc. You might actually have a lot to contribute to this thread, having lived in the area.

But man, your level of argumentation is so bad I'm almost thinking if you're just trolling. Answering to solid questions/arguments with "LMAO" or "ur ridiculous haha you dont knowe shit" or "you have zero evidence" is totally non-constructive, and if you think about it, all of those replies you used could be used against the claims you made. It's kinda like how Donald Trump communicates a lot of the time.

Let's keep it civil again for a bit, shall we, and back our claims and opinions with proper information?

Now, back to the thread - that idea about getting a lesson from Justin could actually work. Also I might actually have a good guitar lesson, haha!


----------



## squids

isomorphic said:


> -They- are probably the same people who think Rings of Saturn "does a great job of marketing" with their "epic memes"


i know some people that fit that description to a T, and this was the cherry on top hahahaha (though it should be "dank memes")




Velokki said:


> Now, back to the thread - that idea about getting a lesson from Justin could actually work. Also I might actually have a good guitar lesson, haha!


that guy is a shredder. maybe not as accomplished as keene but definitely has some insane chops. seems like he responds on his instagram, so maybe DM him about everything that went down? even if you end up paying him for lessons, i'd imagine youd get more than your money's worth


----------



## isomorphic

My arguments have definitely degraded now because I've said all I needed to say earlier (when people had to twist my words to have ANY counter-point).

Bottom line is I have very little tolerance for shitty behavior and don't feel sorry for any rumors or accusations that may go along with them. Especially if I've heard them from people I trust.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Fair enough, no one's calling you a liar, dude; we just don't know your friends. Or you, really. It'd be a dumb thing to lie about but we've all known people to lie for less so people are skeptical. 

Personally, I'm curious to see if the new single is really going to lead into an August release, and if getting the album finalized was a contributing factor to this whole tour disaster. Or just more of the same. I don't think much would surprise me, at this point.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Sooooo like I said a billion posts ago.

If dude didn't rip people off and scam people and act sketchy no one would care if he's on drugs or not.

Really who cares if drugs are "just a rumour" what's not a rumour is that he's a huge dick. Tonnes of musicians are on drugs and people don't think any less of them or even care at all because they aren't being total dicks.

Stealing peoples money hurts his reputation/image, not being on drugs, as seen in this thread people would be very supportive/understanding of a guy who has a problem with drugs.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

You think they'd just release the album to try and do a bit of damage control.


----------



## ArtDecade

Lorcan Ward said:


> You think they'd just release the album to try and do a bit of damage control.



If the album is anything like that last track, they are not doing themselves any favors.


----------



## Velokki

ArtDecade said:


> If the album is anything like that last track, they are not doing themselves any favors.


I'd be one to disagree. If the new album is anything in the lines of The Black Star or The Spiraling Void, I'm sold. And this doesn't put me in Isomorphic's category of totally blind fanboys who eat anything you put on their plate - I just happen to genuinely like both songs!


----------



## lovisjudeau

Hey guys, somehow this will seem off topic BUT The Faceless will be playing a concert on June 2nd in my town!! I will be confronting that man. If he does not cooperate let us see what the police can do at the border . 

@Velokki I will be asking him to contact you, could you give me an e-mail-address I can hand over? 

ps. Did you know that the new album is to be named "In Becoming A Ghost"? Somehow I feel like having experienced his transformation.


----------



## Velokki

lovisjudeau said:


> Hey guys, somehow this will seem off topic BUT The Faceless will be playing a concert on June 2nd in my town!! I will be confronting that man. If he does not cooperate let us see what the police can do at the border .
> 
> @Velokki I will be asking him to contact you, could you give me an e-mail-address I can hand over?
> 
> ps. Did you know that the new album is to be named "In Becoming A Ghost"? Somehow I feel like having experienced his transformation.


Man, that would be so ace!

But regrettably, as you live in Hamburg, I think you were still in the belief that The Faceless _would actually play_ EU shows this year.
http://www.metalinjection.net/lates...ech-fest-2017-appearance-entire-european-tour
http://www.metalinjection.net/lates...ech-fest-2017-appearance-entire-european-tour


----------



## Jonathan20022

I'm not giving him a free pass, I don't fucking tune into MTV or the random noise you're always surrounded by to stay away from petty drama about rumors being spread around in identical fashion to how you're doing.

You're also the kind of person that shit content appeals to, I couldn't care less if he does drugs or not like I said previously. Call him out on his bullshit like scamming the OP and the frustration the people who expected to see them at the show are having. The second you start waving around your status among your local scene and the fact that someone told you a little rumor about a guy who already has a lot of negative outlook in the community as is, you immediately lose all credibility to me 

Good luck on your crusade, I'm sure your quest to set Keene straight will work out just great


----------



## squids

all this talk about keene had me relearn the spiraling void, he may be a scumbag but the guy can write some technical riffs. 
does anyone know if he still uses randall amps to get that tone (aside from them being "stolen" )?


----------



## lovisjudeau

Velokki said:


> Man, that would be so ace!
> 
> But regrettably, as you live in Hamburg, I think you were still in the belief that The Faceless _would actually play_ EU shows this year.
> http://www.metalinjection.net/lates...ech-fest-2017-appearance-entire-european-tour


 
ARGGGG goddamn I am slow. A friend told me they where coming and the german ticket distributor is still selling tickets so I thought this must be true...
I will try to keep up with what is happening. If there are any news on tours officially being cancelled or re-confirmed again pls tell me!


----------



## AliceLG

lovisjudeau said:


> ARGGGG goddamn I am slow. A friend told me they where coming and the german ticket distributor is still selling tickets so I thought this must be true...
> I will try to keep up with what is happening. If there are any news on tours officially being cancelled or re-confirmed again pls tell me!



I was going to that same show. Eventim contacted me regarding a reimbursement. Hafenklang already filled the spot with another show. I don't think it'll happen


----------



## isomorphic

Jonathan20022 said:


> I'm not giving him a free pass, I don't fucking tune into MTV or the random noise you're always surrounded by to stay away from petty drama about rumors being spread around in identical fashion to how you're doing.
> 
> You're also the kind of person that shit content appeals to, I couldn't care less if he does drugs or not like I said previously. Call him out on his bullshit like scamming the OP and the frustration the people who expected to see them at the show are having. The second you start waving around your status among your local scene and the fact that someone told you a little rumor about a guy who already has a lot of negative outlook in the community as is, you immediately lose all credibility to me
> 
> Good luck on your crusade, I'm sure your quest to set Keene straight will work out just great



You failed to mention the massive list of talent and management Keene has alienated to the point where they quit a band that is continually direct support on the biggest tech/death metal tours in the world. These are facts.

OP has already private messaged me saying he talked to a few of the largest, most respected talents in the LA tech/metal scene directly and they do not like Keene.

Continue to live in your basement guitarist fantasyland where there's no potential for drama aside from people like me on an extended range guitar message board calling out one of your favorite guitarists for being massive dicks and spreading the word that being able to write good tech riffs does not excuse this behavior regardless of drug use or no drug use.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Everyone is sitting in this thread arguing about confronting Keene in some manner about his behavior, and I'm just sitting over here wondering where the mods are at and how in the hell this isomorphic brat hasn't been permanently banned yet with how he continues to immaturely shoot off his mouth in post after post.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Everyone is sitting in this thread arguing about confronting Keene in some manner about his behavior, and I'm just sitting over here wondering where the mods are at and how in the hell this isomorphic brat hasn't been permanently banned yet with how he continues to immaturely shoot off his mouth in post after post.



We're here like







Mods are here like


----------



## gunch

An internet forum is like court where the burden of proof is on the complainant 

Yeah, Keane's character is nothing short of dubious at this point, but until the story breaks that he was busted by cops or evidence beyond hearsay it's just that: Hearsay 

Most of us are bored waiting around to see what's going to happen. My opinion of the tracks released has been sort of flavored negatively by all this drama but a small part of me wants to see an agreeable outcome to all this.

Addicts do and say and neglect fucked up things but everyone deserves at least one chance to get help/clean. 

PD and Akeldama are great albums. I don't like the direction he went where he wanted to be the second coming of Devin Townshend but there you go.


----------



## isomorphic

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Everyone is sitting in this thread arguing about confronting Keene in some manner about his behavior, and I'm just sitting over here wondering where the mods are at and how in the hell this isomorphic brat hasn't been permanently banned yet with how he continues to immaturely shoot off his mouth in post after post.



LOL. What rules have I broken? I got banned last time for calling someone a "moron". Haven't called anyone names since.

by 7 string logic you should be banned for calling me a mean name.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

This just in. Musicians do drugs sometimes!! I have this on the authority of credible sources. Please don't question my investigative journalism skills!


----------



## marcwormjim

I get that the mods haven't finished their popcorn yet, but can this post be set as isomorphic's sig?



ArtDecade said:


> I don't know if Keane does drugs, but I am convinced that he banged Isomorphic's girlfriend.



Not even Jeffbro leaked this much cowper's fluid in his posts.


----------



## isomorphic

be hostile towards a person who has a decade long history of being a tool

has person with absolutely no say in this completely disrespected with actual fake news 

but I'm the one who should be banned....


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

isomorphic said:


> be hostile towards a person who has a decade long history of being a tool
> 
> has person with absolutely no say in this completely disrespected with actual fake news
> 
> but I'm the one who should be banned....



I'm impartial in this, just kinda watching it go down. But if anything, you should be banned because your being a jerk.


----------



## isomorphic

People are being "jerks" to me. Two-way street. I can handle it, if others cannot and cry "ban" then they are truly divas.

Whether I get banned or not, I find this very entertaining. Especially considering you're all on the outside and have 0 clue what actually goes on. If you knew, you'd probably agree with me...but you won't so I'll just continue to embrace your whining.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Pssst...hey guys. He is messaging me in an attempt to start trouble.


----------



## isomorphic

(He posts a private conversation instead of refuting it)

you, as well as many, many others itt continue to prove my point(s).

hahahhahahahah


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Based on this brat's number of posts in this thread, and the almost immediate timing of each response, I'm beginning to severely question as to whether or not he has a job, a social life, or really anything outside of running his mouth on this forum (and possibly other forums). This guy is just unhealthy.


----------



## isomorphic

I have all of those things + a girl, but continue to run your mouth with absolutely zero evidence (which is incredibly ironic considering that's the cry of most of the whiners itt).

Continue to dodge my private message and prove my point.


----------



## Drezik27

This is amazing.


----------



## Frostbite




----------



## isomorphic

My favorite part is how most people are playing the moral high ground and needing "evidence" that Keene is a druggie, but it's completely okay saying my girlfriend, who has had 8 life saving operations and a rare form of Crohn's disease, had sex with Keene.

I hope you all feel good about yourselves. The most liked post itt. Bravo for getting someone as innocent as her involved.

*slow clap*


----------



## works0fheart

What in the shit am I even reading at this point?


----------



## isomorphic

*Tl;dr I disrespect a loser tech death guitarist based on 10 years of evidence of him being a douchebag and 7 string forum jokes my girlfriend (who has almost died 8 times from health complications) had sex with him*


----------



## marcwormjim

I assure you, none of us would have joked about you even having a girlfriend, had we known she endured eight operations to transition to female before Keene finally made a woman out of her. But now that it's been explained why _her _bowels are so inflamed, what's your excuse?


----------



## isomorphic

amazingly elegant post by edgelordjim.


----------



## marcwormjim

Thank you.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

I feel like im taking crazy pills.


----------



## squids

isomorphic, i think youre missing the point that everyone here already thinks keene is a dick. now youre just making sure we all think that of you too.


----------



## isomorphic

im not missing anything, you seem very unintelligent to think that. i've made it extremely clear the hypocrisy you and other users exhibit. if you think i'm the dick after openly mocking my girlfriend (via liking the artdecade's post) then i think you need some mental examination, you fucking hypocrite.


----------



## squids

isomorphic said:


> im not missing anything, you seem very unintelligent to think that. i've made it extremely clear the hypocrisy you and other users exhibit. if you think i'm the dick after openly mocking my girlfriend (via liking the artdecade's post) then i think you need some mental examination, you fucking hypocrite.


Hahahaha well okay then
seriously though why do you care so much? anyone can just say "keenes on drugs" and be done with it, yet youre just constantly on here. if he fucked you over somehow, itd be much more constructive to actually give examples and personal evidence rather than just continue shitting on the guy from speculation. would much rather have actual facts.
(ps i "like" things because they are funny)


----------



## isomorphic

I thought we've established that this is entertaining to me, squids. I apologize if you have memory loss, but you really seem to have that if you can't recall our private convo + the posts itt where I say this is entertaining.

If you want to circle the wagon for the 70th time:

me: I have no sympathy for drug rumors of keene based on his exceptionally poor behavior for as long as the faceless has been a thing. 

7 string: you have no evidence. also you're a dick for thinking this

me: Sorry I don't support poor character. I have a good amount of evidence, but I'm not going to divulge it.

7 string: Keene fucked your gf!! (69 likes)

me: Nice hypocrisy, excellent maturity as well. Bravo, you guys. I am applauding your outstanding behavior based on me talking shit on someone who frankly deserves it.

7 string: _You're the dick. Provide evidence!!!
_
me: .....


----------



## marcwormjim

isomorphic said:


> I apologize if you have memory loss, but you really seem to have that if you can't recall our private convo + the posts itt where I say this is entertaining.
> 
> If you want to circle the wagon for the 70th time:
> 
> me: I have no sympathy for drug rumors of keene based on his exceptionally poor behavior for as long as the faceless has been a thing.
> 
> 7 string: you have no evidence. also you're a dick for thinking this
> 
> me: Sorry I don't support poor character. I have a good amount of evidence, but I'm not going to divulge it.
> 
> 7 string: Keene fucked your gf!! (69 likes)
> 
> me: Nice hypocrisy, excellent maturity as well. Bravo, you guys. I am applauding your outstanding behavior based on me talking shit on someone who frankly deserves it.
> 
> 7 string: _You're the dick. Provide evidence!!!
> _
> me: .....



Check the last few pages, folks - That's exactly how it all went down.


----------



## isomorphic

not the last few pages. when i entered this thread knowing there'd be a bunch of whiny shut-it basement guitarists who dont live anywhere near LA asking me to show my sources. The complete idiocy of this alone still amuses me. Yea, I'm totally going to throw people I know irl under the bus to prove a bunch of periphery kiddos wrong.


----------



## oracles

Iso: put very, very simply, put up or shut up. You're levelling heavy accusations against a well known figure, and providing nothing but baseless conjecture as "evidence". If you can't or won't provide evidence to support your claims, you can't be upset that no one is taking what you're saying seriously.


----------



## isomorphic

LOOOL like clockwork. I never made any accusations, please learn to read.


----------



## oracles

isomorphic said:


> I said I have direct sources in Los Angeles, where the Faceless is based, along with pretty much the entire LA scene saying he's a probable junkie.



So are you going to back up any of your claims here at all, or are you going to weasel around more and more, flailing helplessly and getting upset that no one is buying into your nonsense? If you can't provide tangible evidence, you cannot expect to be taken seriously, and nor should you be. You're throwing around baseless conjecture with potentially damaging ramifications on behalf of someone else who isn't here to defend themselves, while you sit behind a screen waving around your own superiority flag for your precious little Internet points.


----------



## isomorphic

You still can't read. I literally addressed this the post before yours. 

Also I couldn't give two shits about "internet points", not sure where you got that from.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Accelerated underwater intergalactic 5D upside-down chess ITT. The Donald would be proud.
This is some master level trolling.


----------



## isomorphic

^ 6D*

For the last time, here in the LA scene, there are strong rumors Keene is a druggie. I have not accused him, but I personally would not doubt if they are true based on my sources. I don't feel sorry for him. He's an undeniable asshole. 

If any of you want to come the fuck at me some more, keep doing it. You've already tossed around tons of insults to me (which are fine, I don't care) and my girlfriend (which was uncalled for). I'll probably wake up and be banned tomorrow. w/e


----------



## oracles

Give it up dude, you're not the victim here. You showed up and threw around some claims with zero evidence, you were asked to provide evidence to substantiate those claims, and failed to do so. I don't know what more you expected. 

Again, provide evidence or anything you say is just going to be dismissed as bullshit, and rightly so.


----------



## isomorphic

An open invitation for anyone itt to come to a tech/death metal show in LA and ask around. Until then gtfo.


----------



## oracles

isomorphic said:


> An open invitation for anyone itt to come to a tech/death metal show in LA and ask around. Until then gtfo.



So we can get more hearsay and no definitive evidence? Yeah, I'll pass thanks.


----------



## Veldar

One of the old guitarists from extortionist said the same thing as iso on a let's play


----------



## Edika

Regardless if he's a junkie or not he seems like a giant douche. Now if he's a douche, a douche junkie or a douche due to being a junkie is a moot point as his douchy behavior just outshines everything else.

I do love Planetary Duality and the Autotheism records even though I wasn't a fan of the Autotheism production. Saying all that I'mm curious to see what the new album will sound like but I hope the new song posted isn't indicative of the production on the record.

On the whole lessons and tour cancelation situation, nothing surprising there in terms of my opinion of the guy judging by his interactions with the press and even some of his lyrics in the last record. Just a "what a dick" exclamation!

I don't know if isomorphic was banned for a good reason as he did get really defensive, but some of the members antagonizing him should have been banned for their really immature posts and antagonizijg attitutde. Not questioning the mods decision, just noting that just because you weren't banned as well doesn't make your attitude correct.


----------



## ArtDecade

Artdecade says, "My bad."


----------



## MiPwnYew

This thread is a clusterfuck.


----------



## MFB

@MaxOfMetal/modsquad, would y'all be gracious enough to nuke the last few pages of this shitfest thread, it's for the good of everyone


----------



## Jonathan20022

Holy shit 

This got really hilarious in the span of 24 hours. He wants the attention guys, clearly has a personal vendetta. 

Just ignore him and let him fester, I remember when I was young enough to worry about and post all day about someone else's problems


----------



## isomorphic

I don't have any personal vendetta, chunkathan20022. Keep it up with the hypocrisy, though. You guys crave evidence, but it's perfectly alright to make claims about my gf and say I have no life without any evidence yourself lol

To be clear I work from home and care for my girlfriend who's on unable to work at the moment. 



> One of the old guitarists from extortionist said the same thing as iso on a let's play



Not surprised. Again, I will laugh my face off when it becomes public information and all the whiny babies itt get btfo.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Oh yes, the trivial but astute observation that I'm fat! That one cut real deep my man, good one 

Peace, not going to indulge you anymore since it's clear we're dealing with either a man child, or an actual child.

EDIT: One last one, you're taking a passing joke that a guy made about Keene banging your girl and you're using that as bait to label yourself a victim here and make everyone but you in this thread look bad instead of actually responding to the people who are making an effort to actually hold a conversation with you. Please grow up


----------



## isomorphic

Jonathan20022:

likes a bunch of posts that rip on me and the one saying keene had sex with my girlfriend (no evidence)

says i have a personal vendetta (no evidence)

rips the fact I have a lot of free time on my hands (no evidence)

gets called chunky (hard evidence) and has the gall to call me a child.

the hypocrisy never ends.


----------



## isomorphic

> instead of actually responding to the people who are making an effort to actually hold a conversation with you.



Nice ninja edit.

no evidence of this either.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Your behavior is child-like, period. 

Get back to your busy life if you really do have one to tend to, stop worrying about likes and posts on the internet by people who in no capacity whatsoever take you seriously.


----------



## isomorphic

nice dodge...you still have no evidence



> Your behavior is child-like
> 
> Get back to your busy life if you really do have one to tend to



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

isomorphic said:


> likes a bunch of posts that rip on me and the one saying keene had sex with my girlfriend (no evidence)


Does this kid legitimately not know what a joke is? It seems like the concept and execution of a wee bit of humor are far beyond his lowly grasp.

But hey, Keene banged his girl. What do any of us know? 

Does isomorphic have autism? Asking for a friend.


----------



## isomorphic

Look at how the sanity wheels are falling off of these guys itt. I know what a joke is. I also know what taste is, you clearly don't. 

Also,

I am loling at the fact a guy named "Emperor Guillotine - The Almighty ruler" with a quote _"Earthling fools, this is your last day!" _is calling me autistic. Pretty amazing stuff.

The sheer lack of self-awareness most of you possess is unbelievable, I am lmao.


----------



## isomorphic

Heres another tl;dr of this thread:

7 string: Whats wrong with Michael Keene?

Me: Inner circles of the tech scene here in LA think it's heroin

7 string: you have no evidence

Me: K. Regardless, I don't feel sorry for Keene because he's alienated a ton of fans, management, band members, etc.

7 string: You have a personal vendetta, You're a loser, You're a brat, Your gf fucked Keene, You're a child, You're autistic

Me: K.


----------



## anomynous

If The Faceless was as busy as this thread we'd have five more albums by now


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

isomorphic said:


> I am loling at the fact a guy named "Emperor Guillotine - The Almighty ruler" with a quote _"Earthling fools, this is your last day!" _is calling me autistic. Pretty amazing stuff.


Now you're trying to attack me personally based on the fact that you don't know a character from a 1960s Japanese TV show? Oh my word, you really are desperate to troll. 



isomorphic said:


> Heres another tl;dr of this thread:
> 
> 7 string: Whats wrong with Michael Keene?
> 
> Me: Inner circles of the tech scene here in LA think it's heroin
> 
> 7 string: you have no evidence
> 
> Me: K. Regardless, I don't feel sorry for Keene because he's alienated a ton of fans, management, band members, etc.
> 
> 7 string: You have a personal vendetta, You're a loser, You're a brat, Your gf fucked Keene, You're a child, You're autistic
> 
> Me: K.


The absolute lack of comprehension in this kid's posts is beyond me.


----------



## marcwormjim

I'm a tech-metal guitarist in the LA area and, trust me, this Isomorphic guy is a known Chef Boyardee impersonator. Let's just say I have my sources (And NO, I'm not throwing them under the bus by naming them), and this guy's pretty well-known locally for just being strung out on Chef Boyardee in a fluffy hat every day. If you losers don't believe me or decide to take potshots by bringing my legally-recognized marriage to a Hulk Hogan Pillow Buddy into this, you're a hypocrite. None of you should hold any thoughts of compassion for this dude's personal struggles to overcome the demon beefaroni...Well, because I said so - When I bring the hammer down YOU ARE NAILED! If you're a Hulk Hogan Pillow Buddy, you know what I mean. You are all now obligated to hate him as much as all my local friends....Who are TOTALLY REAL by the way, and who test every person they encounter for the presence of Spaghettios in their blood.

Hypocrites! The lotta ya! My pillow wife, and the plastic sandwich bag filled with black mold she holds, have nothing to do with this...So you hypocrites just leave the Hulkster out of your hypocritohulkasphere, if you know what's good for you. Truth hurts, bro.

Allow me to summarize what I just typed, so you can understand:

1. I'm all awesome, tell you shit be up, break it down like a circus clown.

2. HYPOCRITES

3. Profit.


----------



## isomorphic

edgelordjim strikes again with another incredibly try-hard attempt at humor. 7 string thinks it's funny because (spoiler alert) that's the sense of humor they have.

Reminder that I have never ripped on any of your (probably non-existent) girlfriends. You equate me not liking or feeling bad for a guy who continually exhibits terrible behavior, that has a very bad local reputation to someone who has a personal grudge and hellbent on smearing his image. 

In reality, none of you have followed the band as closely as I have over the span of a decade. If you have, you'd probably feel the same way as I do - but I (momentarily) digress until one of you inevitably vomits the same whiny lameness (reminder: I'm not accusing anyone of anything, I'm just stating what I've heard from trusted sources. No, I will never tell you them because I'm not a snitch. Would you snitch some friends out to impress a bunch of out of shape basement guitarist strangers? Didn't think so).

I completely get why you're so buttflustered and continually like pretty much joke at my expense - it's because you have no other option but to satirize and mock.


----------



## isomorphic

Also lets not forget the pages of deleted comments when I first came itt when users would put words in my mouth (which you're still doing) and make it seem like I'm personally saying Keene is a druggie.

Do I think it's probable? Yes.

Do I think it's certain: No.

Does 7 string know the difference between "probable" and "certain": No.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Man, if I did a breakdown of every excuse Keene made, and then took a shot for each one of those, I'd probably die half way through due to alcohol poisoning. Holy shit.


----------



## Jonathan20022

isomorphic said:


> *I have all the evidence I need lol.* You random forum dudes can deny anything you'd like and call me all the names you care to - I think it's hysterical how you're acting.
> 
> One day the evidence will become more widespread and I will bump the fuck outta this thread and lmao





isomorphic said:


> LOOOL like clockwork. *I never made any accusations*, please learn to read.





isomorphic said:


> Also lets not forget the pages of deleted comments when I first came itt when users would put words in my mouth (which you're still doing) and make it seem like I'm personally saying Keene is a druggie.
> 
> Do I think it's* probable*? Yes.
> 
> Do I think it's* certain: No*.
> 
> Does 7 string know the difference between "probable" and "certain": No.





For a kid who's been shouting hypocrisy for like 7 pages worth of content, he sure doesn't seem to realize that evidence implies factual resources or absolute proof. But the truth reveals itself, rumors surround a shitty person who does bad things so he the rumors of the rest of his life must be absolutely true!!

Let me re-iterate

Literally not a single fucking person here cares if anyone does drugs, he's ruining his own life if he is doing them. And unanimously the entire thread agrees that he's a fucked up person for stealing OP's money and fucking other people over. Just because we won't drive across the country to talk gossip and rumors doesn't make us hypocrites. The burden of proof falls on the person saying something must be true, not the people who don't buy into your bullshit


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I couldn't careless whether Keene shoots up heroin like someone with a sweet tooth eats candy or has abnormal sexual habits with a goat while covered in pudding, his deceitful antics are total bullshit, and depending on one's taste, the music isn't all that good. Others will probably disagree with me, but I think his musical talents are pretty overrated. But, then again, I think tech death is noise.


----------



## isomorphic

Jonathan20022 said:


> For a kid who's been shouting hypocrisy for like 7 pages worth of content, he sure doesn't seem to realize that evidence implies factual resources or absolute proof. But the truth reveals itself, rumors surround a shitty person who does bad things so he the rumors of the rest of his life must be absolutely true!!
> 
> Let me re-iterate
> 
> Literally not a single fucking person here cares if anyone does drugs, he's ruining his own life if he is doing them. And unanimously the entire thread agrees that he's a fucked up person for stealing OP's money and fucking other people over. Just because we won't drive across the country to talk gossip and rumors doesn't make us hypocrites. The burden of proof falls on the person saying something must be true, not the people who don't buy into your bullshit



chuckathan returns.

Do you realize I have all the evidence I personally need to proclaim that I personally think it's probable he's a druggie? What's that, you don't? Keep coming at me with weak shit, I will continue to laugh.

If you think I'm stupid enough (wait, you probably do, but let's be real you are shit at argumentation. EDIT: and reading comprehension) to think I can barge in this thread on a basement guitarist forum and think people will believe me, you need to seek asylum. I was putting my two cents in and knew from the start people like you would try to come at me. Please continue, I will never cease to be entertained.


----------



## isomorphic

> Just because we won't drive across the country to talk gossip and rumors doesn't make us hypocrites



Your lack of reading comprehension is astounding.

I never said this. If you could (keyword: could) read I said you were hypocrites for spouting things without evidence - like me not having a social life, a job, and that my gf had sex with keene while simultaneously (and continually) telling me to snitch/provide evidence.

Keep this charade up, you are being exposed as a clown.


----------



## isomorphic

Triple post but do any other people want to put words in my mouth then create a counter argument based on their lack of reading skills? This thread is a sideshow of you guys doing so.

Open invitation.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Holy hell that song has a lot of high end. Is the album going to be called Far Beyond Trebly or something?


----------



## Jonathan20022

Probable or Likely =/= Factual

You have no proof, and the burden of proof falls on you. Call me fat all you want or ignore the argument entirely and keep saying you have evidence, if it's not presented it's not real nor relevant. You told Oracles to come out to a show to speak to your local scene to verify RUMORS a few pages ago, don't act like you didn't because instead of just repeating what you said I just quoted it. Your entire argument is based on rumors and you have no factual evidence, you're therefore slandering because your buddies said something is true and you're a tool for doing so.

Troll harder, the only reason I look like a clown is because I keep entertaining your stupidity for some reason.


----------



## isomorphic

chunk,

I have all the evidence I need to make a claim *to myself*. You realize that right? You continue to gloss over everything I said that refutes your lame excuse of an argument.

I am fully aware I don't have the evidence to form an argument to you kids who spend more time covering old fallujah and djent songs than learning how to interpret text on a screen.

I'm not sure how many times I have to say this, but I knew from the start my argument would appear flimsy, I am aware of the burden of proof, kiddo. I put my two cents in.



> Probable or Likely =/= Factual



No. Fucking. Shit. I. Never. Said. It. Was. Factual. You. Have. Reading. Problems.

You are actually proving MY point for me by saying this. HAHAHAHA

I implore you to stop while you're ahead. You're on full damage control mode right now and it is very embarrassing. You have the arguing skills of a 9th grader.


----------



## Jonathan20022

You're just arguing for the sake of it, and your argument *is *flimsy. You claim to be a longtime member on here, but you only have 150 posts before this thread. We get countless kids and people coming in here claiming they have sources and people in the industry who have entrusted them with information that no one else knows. No one cares, and unless you have intentions of divulging absolutely no one in this community will hold you in a credible light.

If you KNEW all this going in, you are simply put trolling. Coming in and picking apart everyone else while you, ironically remain faceless. Tear apart my content all you want, I pride myself in what I play and choose to put myself out there at my own will. You're just another one of those assholes who likes tearing apart another person based on their personal tastes. You make fun of every single other member who responds to you, yet get textbook triggered when someone fires back at you and actually hits a soft spot


----------



## isomorphic

Me: 

Do I think it's probable? Yes.

Do I think it's certain: No.

Does 7 string know the difference between "probable" and "certain": No.

Chunk:

Probable or Likely =/= Factual


You guys seeing this shit? This dude right here is saying EXACTLY what I'm saying hahaha

For those who still have no understanding:

Facts are certain (duh).

I said I do not think it is certain Keene shoots up.

Chuck then says: Probable or Likely =/= Factual to REFUTE me but he's basically doing the opposite. Agreeing with me. LOL.


----------



## isomorphic

Jonathan20022 said:


> You're just arguing for the sake of it, and your argument *is *flimsy. You claim to be a longtime member on here, but you only have 150 posts before this thread. We get countless kids and people coming in here claiming they have sources and people in the industry who have entrusted them with information that no one else knows. No one cares, and unless you have intentions of divulging absolutely no one in this community will hold you in a credible light.
> 
> If you KNEW all this going in, you are simply put trolling. Coming in and picking apart everyone else while you, ironically remain faceless. Tear apart my content all you want, I pride myself in what I play and choose to put myself out there at my own will. You're just another one of those assholes who likes tearing apart another person based on their personal tastes. You make fun of every single other member who responds to you, yet get textbook triggered when someone fires back at you and actually hits a soft spot



Translation:

I have no argument, so instead I'm going to say: Know your place, rook! You are nothing here! You are a troll!!!!! Asshole!!!! Triggered!!!!!


----------



## Jonathan20022

Evidence implies fact, and the first quote I used verbatim says you have evidence. And that's from your own words since you're so afraid of people putting them in your mouth. You really are just arguing because you want to, and for christ' sake you get offended at every little thing when you insult others so freely. Pull yourself together. 

Oh well, this isn't going anywhere and your argument is weak. So no point in going in circles with you wasting my own time. Peace.


----------



## isomorphic

"Evidence implies fact" hahahhahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahah

*holds breath*

hahahhahahahahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ok. For the last time. I have heard trusted sources. That is evidence to proclaim it is possible/probable to MYSELF. That does not imply it's a FACT, genius.

There is evidence 9/11 is a conspiracy. That must mean it's a fact right. 'Fuck outta here dude.


----------



## TheFightingCPA

Had to listen to the new song a couple times but it's growing on me. Some riffs felt recycled, but not too bad. I would prefer if the new album is more like the spiraling void if anything. Last I heard was an August release date, is that still the case? (Don't follow any social media sites but a few guitar forums) I really hope so but I'm doubting it.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

This merry-go-round ride should have a one ride limit.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

If I had a dollar for every time that isomorphic used the words "read" or "reading" in this thread alone, I would have enough money to buy a couple more custom guitars to slap up on this forum for you guys to drool over.


----------

