# Jackson Stars 7-string for sale



## skyclad (Jun 3, 2006)

Just found it on ikebe - SL7, KV7 TBKS (different from previous KV7), RR7 and Kelly 7 -
http://www.ikebe-gakki.com/free_sea...der=1&submit1=%8C%9F%8D%F5%82%B7%82%E9&cate=1


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## Akrin (Jun 3, 2006)

Man - coolest. finish. ever.


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## skyclad (Jun 3, 2006)

it said "steel" there. I also noticed that one Jackson...


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## Mark. A (Jun 4, 2006)

I'm still waiting for Noodles to sell me his Jackson 7


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## jtm45 (Jun 4, 2006)

skyclad said:


> it said "steel" there. I also noticed that one Jackson...



It actually says "Bolted-Steel" which is just the name they give that custom paint finish.

Some of those Jackson 'Stars' are awesome looking though.
Agreed! That one Noodles has is very nice indeed.


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## Michael (Jun 4, 2006)

Nice, I love Jackson's!!!


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## bostjan (Jun 4, 2006)

Nice!

Am I the last person on Earth to not speak Japanese? Guess I'd better start studying like a madman.


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## Shawn (Jun 4, 2006)

Mark. A said:


> I'm still waiting for Noodles to sell me his Jackson 7


That is my favorite Jackson 7-string.


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## Mark. A (Jun 4, 2006)

Oh yeah, white guitars = pure secks, well not the Jem's but yeah you get the drift


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## Shawn (Jun 4, 2006)

Mark. A said:


> Oh yeah, white guitars = pure secks, well not the Jem's but yeah you get the drift


White = my favorite finish on a guitar.


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## skyclad (Jun 4, 2006)

> Am I the last person on Earth to not speak Japanese?



I don't know it either. But I thinking about Chineze at the moment. 1.5 billion people against 128 million Japaneze... 

p.s. Search engines are still search engines, even in Japan. Buttons have same functions even with hieroglyphs on it. And some guys from Japan speaks English.


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## eaeolian (Jun 4, 2006)

Hmm. Not a bad looking guitar at all. Priced a little more reasonably than the KV, too.


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## skyclad (Jun 4, 2006)

Which one?

p.s. KV is exlusive model, price is exclusive too. ))


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## Regor (Jun 4, 2006)

I sooooo want that KV7


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## jtm45 (Jun 4, 2006)

Regor said:


> I sooooo want that KV7


 

Works out at around $1500 U.S. which is not at all bad for such a cool guitar.

What exactly is the score with the 'Stars' range then?
Are they Jap made for the Japanese market only or something or U.S. made for export only ?


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## skyclad (Jun 4, 2006)

I guess brand 'Jackson stars' intended for domestic Japanese market only. But can it change somebody desire to buy for example KV7?


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## Karl Hungus (Jun 4, 2006)

I'm really digging that Kelly 7.


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## skyclad (Jun 4, 2006)

It is bolt-on Kelly...


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## darren (Jun 4, 2006)

I find it interesting that there are Jackson "Stars" models that are built by Mike Shannon.


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## Karl Hungus (Jun 4, 2006)

skyclad said:


> It is bolt-on Kelly...



Is it? The website says neck-through.


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## skyclad (Jun 4, 2006)

No. you can check its backside photo. RR7, Kelly 7 and KV7 I assume are bolt-on models. SL7 is neck-thru.

Here is photo of that Kelly7 - 









> I find it interesting that there are Jackson "Stars" models that are built by Mike Shannon



He came back to jackson. His recent model are awesome.


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## Firebeard (Jun 4, 2006)

skyclad said:


> No. you can check its backside photo. RR7, Kelly 7 and KV7 I assume are bolt-on models. SL7 is neck-thru.
> 
> Here is photo of that Kelly7 -




Thats not a bolt on.

Edit: OH! You're talking about the strap buttons? Thats for body balance, the SL7 doesn't have one because it's on the end of the top cutaway.


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## jtm45 (Jun 4, 2006)

The KV-7 is a neck-thru too.


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## Regor (Jun 4, 2006)

If I weren't about to get a dog.. I'd buy that KV7


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## Karl Hungus (Jun 4, 2006)

Yep, it's a strap button, not a bolt-on:






Could you imagine a bolt-on with a single bolt though?


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## skyclad (Jun 4, 2006)

One Kelly 7 I've seen here was bolt-on. I assumed that this one is bolt-on too.


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## metalfiend666 (Jun 4, 2006)

The regular KE7 was indeed a bolt on. The Jackson Stars line is intended to be a higher quality Japanese domestic market line.


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## skyclad (Jun 4, 2006)

My fault. that was USA Ke7 






p.s. I didn't said bolt-on. I said - I assume... ))

p.p.s. USA Ke7 with 3 chambers for electronics, Jackson Star KE7 with one...


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## metalfiend666 (Jun 4, 2006)

skyclad said:


> My fault. that was USA Ke7
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That one's a bit misleading as it was one of the early Jackson Custom Shop 7's.


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## skyclad (Jun 4, 2006)

I've seen different Jackson Stars SL7, but none with Floyd Rose. Is it exists? Is it out of production (I can't find one on jacksonstars site)?


p.s.


> The Jackson Stars line is intended to be a higher quality Japanese domestic market line.



Before 'Jackson Stars' company called 'Grover Jackson'


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## Firebeard (Jun 4, 2006)

skyclad said:


> Before 'Jackson Stars' company called 'Grover Jackson'



If I remember right Grover Jackson worked with Wayne Charvel and later started "Jackson" which would later be sold to Fender. I don't think the company was ever Grover Jackson. Or was it?


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## metalfiend666 (Jun 4, 2006)

Grover was an employee of Wayne and bought the company. He continued as Charvel until Randy Rhoads got him to make the first RR prototype. It was so different that he put his name on the headstock and Jackson guitars was born.


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## zimbloth (Jun 4, 2006)

The Soloist looks like its a rosewood board. The Kelly and RR looks cool though.


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## jacksonplayer (Jun 4, 2006)

satanicmind said:


> If I remember right Grover Jackson worked with Wayne Charvel and later started "Jackson" which would later be sold to Fender. I don't think the company was ever Grover Jackson. Or was it?



For trademark reasons, the Jacksons made in Japan that are sold in the Japanese market have been sold under the "Grover Jackson" and "Jackson Stars" names at various times. Apparently some other company there has the trademark rights to just plain "Jackson." The company started off as 'Charvel', and stayed that way until 1986, when the Charvel line was moved to Japanese production and all of the USA production guitars became Jacksons, including the bolt-on guitars that had been labeled as Charvels before that. From '82-'86, a bolt-on was a Charvel and a neckthru was a Jackson, for various historical reasons. But the company was officially renamed 'Jackson' in '86. It was sold to the holding company that owns Akai in 1989 or '90 (I forget), and that company sold it to the holding company that owns Fender in 2002.

BTW, I'm slobbering over that new SL7, but I have to admit that I wasn't that thrilled with Noodles's white SL7 back when I owned it. Might just be peculiar to that guitar, though. I'm very tempted on that new SL7, though I don't have the cash right now or the desire to deal with the hassle of importing a guitar through Ikebe, and my Carvin is doing its job well enough.


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## skyclad (Jun 5, 2006)

Guys, what about SL7 with Floyd Rose. Does 7st model exists? This SL7-J2B has fixed bridge, I've seen also JP.SL7-125 with fixed bridge, but no SL7 7st, with Floyd Rose... 

p.s. Company name for domestic Japanese market until the second half of 90-s was 'Grover Jackson' I know about Grover Jackson as a guitar builder. I've got 6-string Washburn Nuno Bettencourt model , build in Japan in 1991 by Grover Jackson himself.

Back side of steel guitar looks interesting too 






This RR7 from Jackson Stars was cool, but now it is sold out


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## eaeolian (Jun 5, 2006)

skyclad said:


> I guess brand 'Jackson stars' intended for domestic Japanese market only. But can it change somebody desire to buy for example KV7?



You could buy it straight from Ikebe. There's people over at JCF - and here, too, I think - that have.

I was referring to the Soloist 7 in my earlier post, BTW.



skyclad said:


> I've seen different Jackson Stars SL7, but none with Floyd Rose. Is it exists? Is it out of production (I can't find one on jacksonstars site)?



These were, at one point, very small production runs. The first non-USA Custom Shop SL7 I've ever seen is the one Noodles owns, so this makes two. I've seen a couple of USA 7s with Floyds, but not a Japanese one until the RR you posted above. Interesting...


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## skyclad (Jun 5, 2006)

I've seen Japanese Ke7 with Floyd Rose too. But I can't find SL7 with Floyd. Probably they made some SL7-175???

p.s. Above RR7, produced in 2004, was semi-order one...

I've seen also some American Jacksons (apart from Noodles) with floyd rose, like this one











specs -Jackson Custom Shop Soloist 7 String Guitar
SN J6604
24 Jumbo Frets
Maple Neck, Alder Body
Neck-thru construction
Neck and headstock binding
Jackson Deep Candy Red Paint job
found on entire body, back of neck and headstock
Schaller tuners
Takeuchi 7 String Trem
Custom Crop Circle inlays to the 22nd Fret (a first for Jackson)
(1) EMG 707 Active 7 String Pickup
(1) Volume knob

Some other Japanese Jackson Stars SOLOIST JS-SL7-125


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## metalfiend666 (Jun 5, 2006)

skyclad said:


> specs -Jackson Custom Shop Soloist 7 String Guitar
> SN J6604
> 24 Jumbo Frets
> Maple Neck, Alder Body
> ...


 
I think I need new underware! The only thing I don't like about that is the EMG. I have a serious love of the crop circle inlays, they're my favourite thing about my Roswell's. I'd definitely have them on a CS Jackson if I ordered one.


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## skyclad (Jun 5, 2006)

Takeuchi trem (at least 6-string version) is much worse than OFR, I don't know the reason why those amazing Jacksons has 7-string takeuchi...

p.s. It looks like RR semi-order '04 has edge-pro style tremolo. It is better than takeuchi


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## eaeolian (Jun 5, 2006)

skyclad said:


> Takeuchi trem (at least 6-string version) is much worse than OFR, I don't know the reason why those amazing Jacksons has 7-string takeuchi...
> 
> p.s. It looks like RR semi-order '04 has edge-pro style tremolo. It is better than takeuchi



They didn't have OFR7s when that guitar was ordered. That guitar belongs to Kragen Lum from Protoype. I don't know if he's had problems with his, but I know Vince from the same band, and he's had major issues with the locknut on his KV7.



skyclad said:


> Some other Japanese Jackson Stars SOLOIST JS-SL7-125



Heh - that's my guitar with 24 frets. Well, not as nice, but...


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## noodles (Jun 5, 2006)

How has this gone on this many pages without someone mentioning the 24-fret RR7?


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## eaeolian (Jun 5, 2006)

Uh, 'cause I don't like pointy guitars?


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## noodles (Jun 5, 2006)

It looks like this Soloist was done up with a different CNC program than mine:


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## eaeolian (Jun 5, 2006)

Yeah, it's got a more "traditional" Soloist neck joint, I think. Looks more like the 6 string versions:


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## noodles (Jun 5, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Uh, 'cause I don't like pointy guitars?



Canceled. 



eaeolian said:


> Yeah, it's got a more "traditional" Soloist neck joint.



Which joint does yours have again? I never see the back of the thing.


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## eaeolian (Jun 5, 2006)

noodles said:


> Which joint does yours have again? I never see the back of the thing.



Mine's similar to yours, but has the "scallop" like the early '90s Pro series had. Makes for good clearance with 22 frets.


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## noodles (Jun 5, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Mine's similar to yours, but has the "scallop" like the early '90s Pro series had. Makes for good clearance with 22 frets.



So similar to mine, but much deeper, right?






I was never bothered by the "traditional" joint, since the Stars is the first instrument I've owned with a scalloped joint. I'm used to this:


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## eaeolian (Jun 5, 2006)

noodles said:


> So similar to mine, but much deeper, right?



Yep - that's almost identical to mine. I asked for the scallop when I ordered it, then promptly forgot about it and said "huh, I didn't ask for that" when it came in. 



noodles said:


> I was never bothered by the "traditional" joint, since the Stars is the first instrument I've owned with a scalloped joint. I'm used to this:



Old-school, for sure. Since I'm used to bolt-ons, well, nothing really bothers me.


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## God Hand Apostle (Jun 5, 2006)

That scallopinied neck thru destroys all other neck joints.


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## jacksonplayer (Jun 5, 2006)

noodles said:


> So similar to mine, but much deeper, right?



I think they're about the same, actually.

That new SL7 is tempting...must...resist...


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## noodles (Jun 5, 2006)

jacksonplayer said:


> I think they're about the same, actually.
> 
> That new SL7 is tempting...must...resist...



Well, it does sound much better with Duncans.


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## eaeolian (Jun 5, 2006)

jacksonplayer said:


> I think they're about the same, actually.
> 
> That new SL7 is tempting...must...resist...



Clearance-wise, they're almost exactly the same, the body joint just looks different because mine's 22.

Tempting, indeed. The Kelly would be really tempting if I didn't know it was going to neck dive like a bitch.


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## jacksonplayer (Jun 5, 2006)

eaeolian said:



> Tempting, indeed. The Kelly would be really tempting if I didn't know it was going to neck dive like a bitch.



I've never grooved on the Kelly body shape. There's a used KE2 for sale at the Seven Corners GC (they're asking WAY too much), and it just doesn't feel comfortable--I'd rather have a V-shape than that, and I don't even like the feel of Vs all that much.

What really sucks to me is that it wouldn't be such a big deal for Jackson to bring a few of those SL7s over here, would it? No more R&D necessary. I know they don't think they could make any money off of USA 7-stringers, but the COW is such a half-hearted attempt at an import 7 and does nothing to dissuade someone from buying a Schecter. I have to think that this new SL7 would make a lot of people think twice about a Hellraiser or Blackjack.


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## skyclad (Jun 6, 2006)

> I know they don't think they could make any money off of USA 7-stringers



I guess that Sl7 from old stock. I can find ANY info on jacksonstars at thier site at all. Sure they got custom shop there and you can order custom or 'semi-order' guitars there, but having one COW at the market at the moment is failng marketing strategy, there is no doubt. I'll never buy one withot Floyd. No such option on COW...


And I believe, that they trying to fail whole worldwide 7-string market, not only U.S. one. there is no big deal to them to offer 7-string neck-thru with OFR7 (even Lo-pro ) as an option for customers outside Japan. Whatever it will be - SL7 or arch-top such as COW (better this one for sure) or anything else... ESP working fast, Jackson must compete them faster than now, anyway.


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## Drew (Jun 6, 2006)

noodles said:


> How has this gone on this many pages without someone mentioning the 24-fret RR7?



See, I was wondering how it went on this many pages without you posting - I read this thread befre the first reply, and my forst thought was, "Noodles is going to be ALL over that V."


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## metalfiend666 (Jun 6, 2006)

That Soloist is tempting. If my guitars sell on Ebay I might get it as an experiment with both a neck-through and SD's. It works out about £530 for that, and if all my guitars sell I'll net at least £1400 (the reserves are set at £350, £450 and £600). Which reminds me, need to make a thread to plug those!


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## jacksonplayer (Jun 6, 2006)

skyclad said:


> I guess that Sl7 from old stock. I can find ANY info on jacksonstars at thier site at all. Sure they got custom shop there and you can order custom or 'semi-order' guitars there, but having one COW at the market at the moment is failng marketing strategy, there is no doubt. I'll never buy one withot Floyd. No such option on COW...



That SL7 is probably part of a special run made just for the Ikebe store--I don't think it's a general Jackson Stars model. Ikebe orders quite a few small runs from Ibanez, Jackson, and ESP (as far as I know). If Ikebe was as easy to deal with on international orders as Ishibashi is, then I probably already would have snagged that SL7. Thus, it's a good thing that Ikebe is a hassle, since my bank account is in a sad shape at the moment--I just got both a used Rocktron Prophesy and ADA Ampulator in the hope of upgrading my recorded guitar sound.


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## skyclad (Jun 6, 2006)

I found some words "coming soon" on digimart about that Jackson Stars guitars. (Jackson sell it through digimart also, so Ikebe is not alone) Is it means that they gonna start production again?

Desert Camo for Jackson COW cost about 80 000 yen alone!!! I'd rather choose some other finishes for less money.

p.s. It was so many pages without mentioning KV7. This new KV7 there has nice finish.

But what about Floyd + SL? Is it possible? Have you ever heard about this combination?


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## eaeolian (Jun 6, 2006)

skyclad said:


> But what about Floyd + SL? Is it possible? Have you ever heard about this combination?



Oh, it's possible, but it's going to cost you...


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## skyclad (Jun 6, 2006)

I mean mass production, not a custom shop. ;-)


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## eaeolian (Jun 6, 2006)

skyclad said:


> I mean mass production, not a custom shop. ;-)



It's possible, but Jackson isn't listening.


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## Drew (Jun 6, 2006)

Yo skyclad, I trimmed your signature down - we've got an informal 1-2 lines max thing going on here. This is the second time I've cut it down from about 10-ish lines; think you could maybe find something a little more concise that you want us to read every time you post? Thanks dude.


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## skyclad (Jun 6, 2006)

> It's possible, but Jackson isn't listening



   

No seriously, probably they made small quantity of SL's with Floyd? I just want to know the model number. 



> Yo skyclad, I trimmed your signature down - we've got an informal 1-2 lines max thing going on here. This is the second time I've cut it down from about 10-ish lines; think you could maybe find something a little more concise that you want us to read every time you post? Thanks dude



offtop. It say there - 500 characters. And nothing about lines, buddy. ;-)


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## eaeolian (Jun 6, 2006)

skyclad said:


> No seriously, probably they made small quantity of SL's with Floyd? I just want to know the model number.



Not that I've ever been able to find - every SL7 with a Floyd I've seen has been a one-off CS piece. If I'd found a Stars or something with one, I'd own it.


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## noodles (Jun 6, 2006)

skyclad said:


> But what about Floyd + SL? Is it possible? Have you ever heard about this combination?



You could buy that Stars, and then get someone local to install a Floyd. Ikebe might even have a reputable tech who could do the job as part of the sale.


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## eaeolian (Jun 6, 2006)

noodles said:


> You could buy that Stars, and then get someone local to install a Floyd. Ikebe might even have a reputable tech who could do the job as part of the sale.



Uh huh. Or I could buy a COW and get a local tech to do a Floyd and add a neck pickup. For less money. 

Oops. Thought you were talking to me. Nevermind...

See, you guys need to chip in for that Kahler, if they'd make the post-mount style...


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## noodles (Jun 6, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Uh huh. Or I could buy a COW and get a local tech to do a Floyd and add a neck pickup. For less money.



Yeah, but you're not in Russia. I'm sure the COW is just as expensive as that SL7 to him.


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## skyclad (Jun 6, 2006)

> If I'd found a Stars or something with one, I'd own it.



that is exactly what I'm trying to do... )))))) Or at least to find model name. CS exists in Jackson stars too, and I guess you can order Floyd there. But I don't know anything about prices.



> You could buy that Stars, and then get someone local to install a Floyd



it is not a problem here, but to buy new guitar and than rebuild it... I don't wanna improve something, in this case I'd rather build a guitar from scratch, around Carvin 7-string neck. With 7-string Kahler tremolo, for sure. )))



> I'm sure the COW is just as expensive as that SL7 to him



Yeah, ... new one. It is normal process in Moscow, most expensive city in the world, after Tokyo and Hong-Kong. see, traders here is quite greedy, they still live for one day, with no tomorrow.

But i brought my current axe from Japan... ;-) I don't want to pay 300% plus cost-of-something, sure I know, that 270% of that is just bribes for multiple assholes, but... without me, please! I have no desire to support them.

p.s. Can't find one COW in Moscow alive. Can't even touch it. "if you'll pay full price for it, we will bring it here for you". Why should I do it, if i can do it by myself and with no extra charges?!


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## zimbloth (Jun 6, 2006)

Good, I hope Jackson continue not to listen and don't put floyds on their 7s. I'm tired of 99% of the good 7-strings on the market having floyds. 75% of my guitars have them and I haven't used the trem arm once.


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## metalfiend666 (Jun 6, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Good, I hope Jackson continue not to listen and don't put floyds on their 7s. I'm tired of 99% of the good 7-strings on the market having floyds. 75% of my guitars have them and I haven't used the trem arm once.


 
I'm all for manufacturer's offering 7's with trems, as long as there's an equal quality fixed bridge alternative. Like you I'm sick of having the choice of Schecter, Ibanez RG7321 or Jackson COW for a fixed bridge 7, or importing something good from Japan.


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## zimbloth (Jun 6, 2006)

Agreed. That just rarely is the case. Almost always either or. The RG7621/RG7620 was the only thing I can think of. The USA Washburn Sonic 7 too.


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## eaeolian (Jun 6, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> The USA Washburn Sonic 7 too.



Which, somewhat humorously, I'm sitting here playing right now. I'm still interested in trying the Floyd version sometime...


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## skyclad (Jun 7, 2006)

I think there must be a choice - to have one model of guitar with floyd or without it. floyd as an option or fixed bridge as an option - it doesn't matter.

p.s. So Jackson Stars gonna start the production ot the above mentioned models again?



> The USA Washburn Sonic 7 too.



i thought about having one, but design of it kills me. Thatn I bought W587-V


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## noodles (Jun 7, 2006)

skyclad said:


> p.s. So Jackson Stars gonna start the production ot the above mentioned models again?



None of those are production per se. They all come from small, semi-custom runs ordered by those music stores. This also used to be common practice in the US, before Fender bumped up the minimum order from 12 to 100.


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## skyclad (Jun 8, 2006)

We must collect 12 orders for Jackson SL with 7-string Kahler then...


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## eaeolian (Jun 8, 2006)

skyclad said:


> We must collect 12 orders for Jackson SL with 7-string Kahler then...



Good luck. I couldn't get 12 people to agree on specs for them with Floyds or hard tails - at the Jackson forum!


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## jacksonplayer (Jun 8, 2006)

Yeah, those limited runs always caused a real ruckus on the JCF, even for the ones that actually made it to production, such as the JCF-01 and 02. I have to admit, though, that the fallout from those two runs made for very entertaining reading. 

I wish that Jackson was more willing to do limited runs on the imports. I liked the DK2LE, but wouldn't it be nice if a few of us could band together and order a few SL7s without the Stars logo? I know there would be people who would want different specs and all, but given an attractive price, I'll bet it would work out.


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## eaeolian (Jun 8, 2006)

jacksonplayer said:


> Yeah, those limited runs always caused a real ruckus on the JCF, even for the ones that actually made it to production, such as the JCF-01 and 02. I have to admit, though, that the fallout from those two runs made for very entertaining reading.
> 
> I wish that Jackson was more willing to do limited runs on the imports. I liked the DK2LE, but wouldn't it be nice if a few of us could band together and order a few SL7s without the Stars logo? I know there would be people who would want different specs and all, but given an attractive price, I'll bet it would work out.



Hell, if we could do a run of COWs with two pickups and a Floyd, I'd be there.


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## skyclad (Jun 16, 2006)

Me too. But one hum for me is O.K. Two would be better, but it is not THAT important, as Floyd or Kahler.


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## noodles (Jun 16, 2006)

eaeolian said:


> Hell, if we could do a run of COWs with two pickups and a Floyd, I'd be there.


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## skyclad (Jun 16, 2006)

3 down, 11 to go...


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## eaeolian (Jun 16, 2006)

skyclad said:


> 3 down, 11 to go...



You mean 97. Japanese "short runs" have always been 100.


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## skyclad (Jun 16, 2006)

97 is impossible. Better build custom guitar.


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## eaeolian (Jun 16, 2006)

Actually, one of the Jackson dealers managed to get 100 together for one guitar - a one-hum dinky with a maple board and a licensed Floyd. It was such a logistics nightmare, though, that I don't think anyone would ever want to do it again...


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## skyclad (Jun 17, 2006)

dinky, license, noname pick-ups - again and again... This is real nightmare! 

what is japanese Jackson semi-order system? I guess it is possible to install OFR in SL7 for example, using that system? 

p.s. I went to ikebe, it seems that they sold out SL7 already.


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## eaeolian (Jun 17, 2006)

skyclad said:


> what is japanese Jackson semi-order system? I guess it is possible to install OFR in SL7 for example, using that system?



I honsetly don't know that much about it. I think someone at the JCF has used it, though, so asking there might be a good start...


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## skyclad (Jun 18, 2006)

Guys, who knows anything about japanese semi-order system?


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## skyclad (Aug 12, 2006)

Just found that guitar on some site in europe and was very surprised with reversed headstock of KE7







Seems like a bolt-on too...


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## terrorsound (Nov 19, 2007)

Jackson Stars 
DK-01.Custom/E(TRS)&#12304;SN.06110025&#12305; looks good!!!!

I noticed jackson stars do not use the crappy cheap trems like on the imports we get in the US.. they use schaller or floyd!!! wTF?? anyone know why that is??


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