# HELP!! How do I get rid of fret hand fatigue and cramping???



## MortuusMachina (Feb 10, 2015)

Okay, so whenever I play a show, about 2 minutes into the first song, my fret hand cramps up and starts to hurt, thus making my performance sound like shit and unprofessional. I have medium sized hands, I play an Ibanez RGD with a 26.5 inch scale in standard (B) tuning, using a custom light top-heavy bottom string set (.09 -.58), also play Technical Death Metal which requires a lot of stretches. Whenever I sit at home or at band rehearsals I'm generally fine, and my hand doesn't hurt, or doesn't hurt as much. 

Are there any exercises or warm-up routines that I can do to get rid of this?? Is there anything I can do to get rid of this? Because this is really starting to bother me.


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## Sumsar (Feb 10, 2015)

So cramping up is usually a question of playing position.
How low does your guitar hang when playing live? Is it vastly different than when you sit at home and practice? Maybe try having your guitar higher when playing live?
Your guitar should be in the same spot regardless is you are standing up or sitting down.

It is always better to look stupid but play awesome rather than look 'cool' and play like shit because ones hand cramps up.

Where do you place your thump on the neck when playing standing up and making those stretches? On the back of the neck, the top or the bottom??? And where is your thump in relation to the fretting fingers? Higher (further away from the headstock) on the neck, at the same distance from the headstock or lower (closer to the headstock than your fretting fingers)?

What does your fretting hand arm do while playing? Does it sit straight againts your body or is it flying wildly into the air away from your body?

How hard do you push down with your fretting fingers / thump on the neck when playing? If you are applying way to much force because you are nervous this will cause cramping in 2 min.

All those above mentioned things factors into the reason why you are cramping up, try and analyse your playing abit and post what you arm and fingers are doing, then people here can tell you what you are doing wrong.

It all comes down to being relaxed. Your entire arm aswell as your hand should be as relaxed as they can be when you are playing.


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## Sumsar (Feb 10, 2015)

Oh and also very important: does your guitar neck dive like crazy? Do you need to use your hand to hold the neck at a playable position? That can also cause cramping. The solution is to get a less slippery guitar strap that holds the guitar better in place OR more drasticly find an other guitar that is more ergonomic for you.


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## MortuusMachina (Feb 10, 2015)

Sumsar said:


> So cramping up is usually a question of playing position.
> How low does your guitar hang when playing live? Is it vastly different than when you sit at home and practice? Maybe try having your guitar higher when playing live?
> Your guitar should be in the same spot regardless is you are standing up or sitting down.
> 
> ...



Here are photos of my playing positions, as you can see, my position standing up is not different at all to what my position is when I'm sitting down


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## redstone (Feb 10, 2015)

Don't flex your wrist that much. Put the thumb closer to the other side of the neck. I know, this position makes your hand look super pro and all, but it's not. Move your fingers instead of stretching them, that's what pros do.


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## Sumsar (Feb 10, 2015)

Yeah I agree your wrist is almost making a 90 degree angle with your arm, which is way to much! Try and bring your elbow forward abit so that your wrist makes more of a 45 degree or even 30 degree angle with your arm (hope it makes sense).

Other than that it looks pretty good (nice guitar btw).


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## Sumsar (Feb 10, 2015)

Other than that just relax your entire body when playing live.

Many musicians has some weird breathing going on while they play, often along the lines of: breath in heavyly, then hold breathing for 30 - 60 seconds, repeat.
This does not help cramping because ones body is not very relaxed.
So next time you play live, think about your breathing. It may sound weird, but if you have a nice controlled and regular breathing while playing, you will be much more relaxed and stuff will be alot easier to play.


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## KristapsCoCoo (Feb 10, 2015)

Sumsar is right, check your wrist angle, it's most likely where the problem comes from...

The other thing - practice/do warmups standing, just like you would do in a show! Get the breathing constant as Sumsar said and just relax. If you're used to playing while sitting it's normal that your body starts to do sheit when you stand up. If you have problems with that, you have to practice it like any other guitar technique, at the end when you're on stage you're not just guitarist, but a performer too, so practice the performance itslef too!


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## Konfyouzd (Feb 10, 2015)

Stretch before you play and find a neck profile you like. And practice a lot. Take breaks when it starts to hurt or feel like you're straining yourself. Etc


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## KristapsCoCoo (Feb 10, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Stretch before you play and find a neck profile you like. And practice a lot. Take breaks when it starts to hurt or feel like you're straining yourself. Etc



Yeah, this too. As far as practicing goes, it's really useful to take time before a show to sit down for a few hours and warm up as much as you can!


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## The Mighty Sunfish (Feb 10, 2015)

Have you tried stretching out your palm? Helps me alot :
http://youtu.be/5n2ALohYiEk


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## concertjunkie (Feb 10, 2015)

stretching stretching stretching and warm up. Earlier on when practicing my bands materials, I would get my hands cramping up early in practicing the set, and this shit is hard! so my playing would fall to the wayside. When I started implementing a warm up routine and stretching to my hands, i can get through the set multiple times and not even have the slightest feeling of cramping!

I was given this frickin kick ass warmup that has helped a lot. Get through this once or twice and I feel quite warmed up.

On another note, goal tempo is 120bpm, but first learn it, then work up to it


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## KristapsCoCoo (Feb 11, 2015)

As far as the warmpus themselves go, I find that these two chromatic excersises works GREAT! They're both strictly alternative picking and they're pretty neat ones and always get my hands going!


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## Ulvhedin (Feb 11, 2015)

Practice playing standing up. 
Standing and strapped asks more of your shoulder and wrist since you have to support the neck to some degree, rather than balancing the guitar on your leg while sitting down.

I started playing standing with a very short strap, and gave it a bit more length after I felt comfortable doing so. 
No shame in wearing the guitar high, you also doesn't seem to be the biggest guy in the world (like me), so we're kinda forced to keep the strap high(unless you're in a nameyourcore-band) in order to not have weird angles in either the elbow or the wrist. 

Seems like I'm slightly out of context, as usual


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## beyondcosmos (Feb 11, 2015)

Going through this thread and saw the 2nd and 3rd pics in Mortuus' reply, figured I would ask this:

Should the thumb be closer to the headstock and should it be in the middle of the back of the neck or more towards the edge, like in his picture? His fretting hand position looks pretty similar to my own.

I tried playing hard for the first time after not practicing for weeks, and my hand got all inflamed and tingly  I'm taking a break for a few days to let it cool down but I need to figure out how to comfortably position my own hand so I can play hard and not have that happen again.


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## bostjan (Feb 11, 2015)

I used to have similar issues until I saw "Rock Discipline" in which John Petrucci recommends stretching before warming up. The stretches not only alieviate cramping, but also reduce risks of permanent damage.


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## Crispyfresh95 (Feb 11, 2015)

Stretch and warm-up before a gig... Also as well as practice.

Practice your set with your band as if you're playing the actual show. So standing up, set up time ect..

Try and stay relaxed as best as you can while playing live... Cramping and fatigue is just tension in the muscle probably from your playing angle and how much force you put in while you play.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Feb 11, 2015)

Practice the way you would play live; standing up! 

As others have said, wrist angle and keeping relaxed are also very important


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## TRENCHLORD (Feb 11, 2015)

Squeeze in more short-session practices throughout the days. Two 1hr sessions spread out will do better than one 2hr session. 
Also, spend a few minutes soaking hands in hot water when doing the standard hand-washing.


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## Sumsar (Feb 12, 2015)

beyondcosmos said:


> Going through this thread and saw the 2nd and 3rd pics in Mortuus' reply, figured I would ask this:
> 
> Should the thumb be closer to the headstock and should it be in the middle of the back of the neck or more towards the edge, like in his picture? His fretting hand position looks pretty similar to my own.
> 
> ...



I would say that the thump could be more toward the headstock, such that your thump is generally closer to the headstock than your fretting fingers.

How high/low the thump should be on the neck depends alot on several things:
1. What are you playing?
2. How is the neck on whatever guitar you play?

The thump height should not be at a fixed level when playing, but move up or down depending on what you play (chords, riffs, lead, etc..)!


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## SevenString (Feb 14, 2015)

Before a gig, I always start with stretching out my left hand. And I don't mean on the fretboard. I mean just general finger and palm stretching exercises combined with applying good pressure of the right thumb all over the left palm. Enough to feel slightly uncomfortable but not painful. You will probably discover that there are knots that need work at joints where palm meets the fingers.

THEN I might follow up with some light scales and chord form exercises on the fretboard.

Finally, I always have an ongoing mental mantra for the first song or two. That mantra is... "relax... relax... relax". Even too much positive energy and excitement can make you grip too aggressively and mess you up with cramps early on.


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## Solodini (Feb 20, 2015)

Try a thicker neck. My hands get sore and cramp on thin necks, which is why I sold my Ibanez. I do much better with thicker necks like teles and similar. 

I advise trying not to overextend any joint or muscle as I can't see how doing so can be good for you: as such, the idea of moving your thumb further toward the headstock, away from your hand, sounds dodgy, to me. To my mind, trying to keep joints in the middle area of their range of travel shouldn't stress them unnecessarily. Try moving your joints, seeing how far they travel in each direction, see what the middle of that is, and see how you can fit that to your playing posture (including that of your hands. My thumb, if my straight fingers are 12 o'clock, goes from 11-3, so around 1 o'clock is pretty comfortable. This goes for both planes adjacent to my fingers. If I have to reach too far or pinch too much, my muscles tire more.


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## p0ke (Feb 23, 2015)

I just warm the .... out of my fretting hand  Or both hands, actually, our songs put a lot of more strain on my picking hand. For our previous gig, I played through our entire set twice before the show. Might sound a bit excessive, but better safe than sorry, right?
For solos etc. that contain wide stretches, I lift my guitar onto my knee so the neck stays upright, that helps quite a bit (And looks cool too )


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## Solodini (Feb 24, 2015)

And for the stretchy solos, warm them up by playing them a few frets up so the stretches are smaller, then move it down a fret, then another, then another until you're one fret lower than the solo actually goes, slightly larger a stretch than the solo requires so playing it properly will be a breeze by comparison.


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## beyondcosmos (Feb 25, 2015)

Solodini said:


> Try a thicker neck. My hands get sore and cramp on thin necks, which is why I sold my Ibanez. I do much better with thicker necks like teles and similar.
> .



How tall are you, though? And how large are your hands? I started playing seven-string guitar on Ibanez Prestige 7s when I was 16/17 years old and have always felt those were the most comfortable necks to me.

I recently did a trade and got rid of the SLAT3-7 that I had, which was what I was playing the majority of the time from March to late November of 2014. Maybe having played that really thick neck, and then trying to go back to the SLATXMG3-7 neck, Ibanez 7 necks and other much thinner necks is what got me.


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## Solodini (Feb 26, 2015)

I'm 5'4" and have hands smaller than one of my 12 year old female students.


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## geekusa (Mar 2, 2015)

Sumsar said:


> Other than that just relax your entire body when playing live.
> 
> Many musicians has some weird breathing going on while they play, often along the lines of: breath in heavyly, then hold breathing for 30 - 60 seconds, repeat.
> This does not help cramping because ones body is not very relaxed.
> So next time you play live, think about your breathing. It may sound weird, but if you have a nice controlled and regular breathing while playing, you will be much more relaxed and stuff will be alot easier to play.



This is super helpful.


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## eyeswide (Mar 4, 2015)

Besides doing warm-ups, you need to be staying hydrated. This doesn't mean a sip of water before you hit the stage, you need to be getting your water intake way before you're getting on stage.

Beyond that, just look up some generic warm-ups on Youtube. My band plays in B minor, so I usually just play all of the notes in that key for each hand position across the neck. I do it slowly, holding the notes, then I do a run faster. After this, I do some finger and wrist stretches, then I'll play through a couple of songs.

By the time we go on, I've warmed up for at least 15 minutes, but usually closer to 30 minutes. When we go to play our first song, I'm warmed up, stretched out and feeling good.

The other reason you might be cramping up is nerves/stage fright, so some mental warm-ups might be necessary.


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## mr coffee (Mar 11, 2015)

You should be starting with stretches followed by warming up, even simple chromatic exercises would be better than just trying to jump straight into a set. And if you want to continue to be able to play, FIX THAT WRIST ANGLE! Trust me, after years of playing with a bent wrist, I'm six weeks post op for carpal tunnel - it got so bad that I had to stop playing altogether for three years.

-m


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## bloc (Mar 11, 2015)

I just recently found out that the neck profile has a big effect on my comfort when I play for long periods of time. I have an Ibanez with a super wizard neck and my hand gets sore faster with that than when I play my Les Paul.


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## SilentCartographer (Mar 15, 2015)

practice more, weight lift if possible, since I staretd I dont need to "warm" my hands up. Work through the pain lol


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## mr coffee (Mar 16, 2015)

Work through the pain? If there was still neg rep I'd apply it to that. Whether you meant it seriously or jokingly, that is the worst advice ever.

-m


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