# [Tech] EMG 707 --> Lundgren M7 swap



## AVH (Jan 10, 2007)

Decided to document the installation of a newly aquired, and much praised Lundgren M7. The outgoing EMG 707 is a very good sounding, balanced, and chuggy pickup, but there was still...something....lacking. Too even, little dynamics....something. 




The subject guitar: my '00 LACS D1. 








The outgoing 707







The incoming M7












A measurement is taken of the pickup height for mounting reference later...this measures 5/16" bass side and 1/4" treble side. I will likely add a sixteenth to the new pickup. 







The opened cavity reveals this slightly messily-wired, but spacious layout in the classic Gibson style 2 Vol/2tone/3-way toggle arrangement - which is unusual for an Ibanez RG. This also solves the mismatched active/passive pot value problem, because it's basically two different pickup signal paths from the toggle switch onward. So all we do is swap the bridge pots from 25k to 500k, and that's it. Each pickup has it own dedicated, correct pot values, which works out to be the perfect compromise. 






String removed and ready to remove the pickup and pots 







Before doing any soldering work, make sure to cover the back with a rag. Accidental finish pock mark burns are possible from burning rosin spatter and or dripping solder. 







After disconnecting the bridge pickup and swich leads from it's volume and tone pots, take out the pots ...












Remove the 707







I have some high-density charcoal colored foam that happens to fit the cavity ends perfectly, both in width and depth. 







I place the M7 on the foam and trace each end. This foam will later act as cavity filler because the new pickup is slightly shorter than the 707, leaving a small open cavity hole. Not a biggie, but asthetically meh...this makes it look cool, and also helps solidify the already solid setting even further. The pickup does not move. I hate wobbly pickups.












Bottom pickup support foam







The M7 baseplate mounting tabs were made flat from Lundgren, so they were too long to directly fit into the existing cavity. Oops. Routing a tab channel on this special guitar is, needless to say, out of the question. So after taking some depth measurements (referring to our original #) I bent the tabs into the usual "L" mounting arrangement. I also matched the mounting hole locations so no further holes would have to be drilled - and best of all this whole job is completely reversable with no ill-effects to both pickup and guitar alike.












Mounted in, and looking good...







Now we put in our cut-out foam end pieces, and using a blunt, thin object to stuff the foam into the end cavities.












After installing two new 500k vol/tone mini pots ready to go, opening the M7 four conductor cable reveals a colorful group: green and red for one coil, and blue and yellow for the other coil. 







Series (full humbucking) wiring: green/braid to ground, yellow/red soldered together and taped, with the blue wire as the hot out. 







I hate messy, rats-nest wiring. All wired up and ready to go!







Strings on....







ALL DONE!  (whew.)






Now to take a few days to sonically evaluate this bad boy.....


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## Drew (Jan 10, 2007)

I require A/B clips.


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## D-EJ915 (Jan 10, 2007)

Lol, the way the strings converge from the bridge pickup to the neck looks like a big difference but it's just bc the pickup is giant in comparison.

Nice wiring btw.


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## WayneCustom7 (Jan 10, 2007)

Nice, when I scrolled quickly it was almost like watching a vid!


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## zimbloth (Jan 10, 2007)

I'm not trying to be rude, but couldn't you have just gotten pickup rings or something? The ones they make for people who have EMG 707s who want to revert back to passives? That foam stuff looks kinda cheesy. Once again I'm not trying to be disrespectul, I just can't get over how weird that looks. Then again tone > looks  Can't wait to hear what you think of the pickup


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## The Dark Wolf (Jan 10, 2007)

Wow. Does that look ugly as hell (707 neck with M7 bridge).  What an odd choice. And those Lundgren pickups are ass ugly. Sure hope it sounds good. 

Great wiring, though, and terrific picstory/tutorial/whatever! You always do such nice work, Dendro. The foam idea was brilliant!

I'm with Drew. Clips!


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## AVH (Jan 10, 2007)

Hey guys, yeah, the foam is really just a quick thing I thought of at the last second while doing it because I just had some lying around. Besides it's still better than having the open holes. I do like solidity it gives though. I may look into those rings too.... 

I care more about how it sounds first and foremost, with looks being secondary...my picking hand is directly over it most of the time anyway.


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## Rick (Jan 10, 2007)

Cool. Can't wait to hear what it sounds like!


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## Metal Ken (Jan 10, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> I'm not trying to be rude, but couldn't you have just gotten pickup rings or something? The ones they make for people who have EMG 707s who want to revert back to passives? That foam stuff looks kinda cheesy. Once again I'm not trying to be disrespectul, I just can't get over how weird that looks. Then again tone > looks  Can't wait to hear what you think of the pickup



If he decides he likes the EMG more, he can put that back in and not have pickup ring screw holes on the body ;D


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## metalfiend666 (Jan 11, 2007)

Cool picstory dude! What's the bobbin on the Lundgren made of?


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## AVH (Jan 11, 2007)

Metal Ken said:


> If he decides he likes the EMG more, he can put that back in and not have pickup ring screw holes on the body ;D


 

That was essentially the idea anyway. I had thought about some rings, but it would mean doing exactly that. This way i also achieve a solid, direct to body mount rather than a floating ring mount, which I think sounds just a hair better. Better feedback resistance as well, due to lesser pickup vibration, I feel. As a compromise, I may still look into those rings as just a cover, which I could just attach with some good double-sided tape. Maybe. 
In normal lighting though, it still looks pretty good, and the foam blends in with the finish better than in stark, horrid flash lighting.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jan 11, 2007)

It would look tight with another normal neck humbucker.


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## AVH (Jan 11, 2007)

metalfiend666 said:


> Cool picstory dude! What's the bobbin on the Lundgren made of?


 
Thanks! The bobbins appear to be made from the same, or similar, resin-impregnated fibre board material as the earlier Telecaster bridge pickups were made from. It's slightly gnarly look is kinda cool, I think. Definitely lends itself to the whole 'boutique/hand' vibe that seems come with pickups like these.


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## metalfiend666 (Jan 11, 2007)

Maybe you could stick the rings to the foam so you don't risk damaging the finish?


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## jtm45 (Jan 11, 2007)

This guy does some really cool anodised black aluminium 7 string pickup rings.I think he does them in a matte-black finish too.
http://www.fretsonthenet.com/other_parts.htm#7_string_string_pickup_rings!
He also makes chrome (they're actually polished stainless)Edge tremolo arms which are handy if you have an Ibanez with Chrome hardware as Ibanez only make them in black.

I think the double sided tape thing would be the way to go for this guitar.You don't want screw-holes in this beauty.
You could always saw the heads off some black screws and glue them into the pickup ring holes so they look like they're screwed down.

Those LACSD1's are an awesome looking guitar!
I love those sure-grip knobs too man.


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## noodles (Jan 11, 2007)

^ Exactly who I got my pickup ring from. I was the first-and as far as I know, only--person to request a pickup ring to move from active to passive.

Before:






After:






Dave, the owner of the site, fabricates his rings out of solid billets of plastic. They absolutely do not flex, bend, warp, or crack.



Dendroaspis said:


> This way i also achieve a solid, direct to body mount rather than a floating ring mount, which I think sounds just a hair better. Better feedback resistance as well, due to lesser pickup vibration, I feel.



Not to be argumentative, but there is no sonic difference between direct and ring mounted pickups. Case in point: Mike, my co-guitarist, had enormous feedback problems with his direct mounted bridge pickup. He wound up stuffing an entire factory's worth of foam under the thing to cut down on the howl.


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## AVH (Jan 12, 2007)

noodles said:


> Dave, the owner of the site, fabricates his rings out of solid billets of plastic. They absolutely do not flex, bend, warp, or crack.
> 
> Not to be argumentative, but there is no sonic difference between direct and ring mounted pickups. Case in point: Mike, my co-guitarist, had enormous feedback problems with his direct mounted bridge pickup. He wound up stuffing an entire factory's worth of foam under the thing to cut down on the howl.


 

Hey Noodles, thanks for the tippage and example pic, I had a good look at those, and it looks like he makes a superb product. I have some flat 1/8" matte black plastic at work that I think I'll make a similar thing - just minus the mounting holes. I will need to make a slightly larger one as well for the new 8 string (I also bought an M8 at the same time), so I'll wait til that time and make both.

The feedback resistance thing with foam insulation is only a helper, not a substitute for proper wax potting. I'm so gated on my signal that i _never_ get feedback anyway, so to me it's more of a solidification thing - I just hate a wobbly pickup, it bugs me.

There is no question of the _slight_ tonal difference between body/pickguard mounted pickups, I've directly done this test with one of my UV's, and the results, to me, sound better direct body mounted - a little tighter and more pronounced bottom end. And working full time tech in a large store, I get to install and test _a lot_ of pickups. After setup work, pickup swaps are the next most requested job, constantly.

BTW - nice Jackson mang...I still think your KXK V walks all over it though


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## Stitch (Jan 13, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> I'm not trying to be rude, but couldn't you have just gotten pickup rings or something? The ones they make for people who have EMG 707s who want to revert back to passives? That foam stuff looks kinda cheesy. Once again I'm not trying to be disrespectul, I just can't get over how weird that looks. Then again tone > looks  Can't wait to hear what you think of the pickup



 I got the impression he didn't want to use pickup rings because he doesn't want to tap holes into a LACS Ibanez...he said that when he was talking about the tabs
Just my interp.
Nice job dude! Don't like the look, but fuck it, it isn't mine, so what opinion do i have?


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## Ryan (Jan 13, 2007)

Dude Al, that looks nuts man. GOtta be the cleanest wiring ive seen in a while.
I bet that M7 owns hard.


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## Leon (Jan 13, 2007)

sweet job man! time to throw an AN7 in that neck position


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## JPMDan (Jan 14, 2007)

so how does it compare to the EMG?


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## AVH (Jan 14, 2007)

Hey Gang-
I just got back from our rehearsal space, and put the Lundgren through it's paces via a cranking HD147/BBE/Mesa cab rig, and.....

_it's the best, articulate, tight, and HEAVIEST damn passive tone I've ever had!!   _

So how does it sound compared to the 707 that preceeded it? Well, it sounds like.... "dj, dj, dj, djent, chi-chi, chi-chi-CHUG CHUG djent chug ch-CHUG CRRAAAAAANNNNNGGGG!!"  Sorry, couldn't resist. 

Seriously though, the M7 to me sounds amazing, and tonally has the best aspects of both actives and passives. It really does sound like the bastard child of a 707/D-Sonic paring. The M7 definitely has more bottom and low-mids than the 707, and just as, if not tighter than the 707, as well. Gives a solid, super-tight "thonk' to the low Bb string. The clarity and definition is pretty much identical to the 707, but the high end is glassier and warmer, not as, yeah, plasticky sounding to the pick attack. Leads have really nice singing quality that the EMG's had trouble getting. Make no mistake - literally - it's a very unforgiving pickup, any picking slop will shine through. Great for getting a tight picking hand though. Volume wise, it's actually a hair louder than the 707 (even the neck 707 too), and really punches through. I had to make some adjustments to my normal presets.

All in all it's the best high-gain metal pickup I've yet tried. I love it. My only regret was stupidly not making some kind of before/after soundfile. I will definitely do one for the M8 I already have that I will be installing into the new 8 when it comes. 

EMG makes an excellent pickup (as does Dimarzio), but they're not this. Sorry 707, you're pwnd.

 Lundgren pickups


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## The Dark Wolf (Jan 14, 2007)

I'd be curious to hear your take in say... 3 months. Maybe 6. Considering there's a guy on here who's selling his Lundgrens (which were in his Ibanez).

Diffrent folks, and all that. But sometimes the shine wears off after awhile. Still, thanks for the details. Very cool, and I'm down with you being stoked.


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## AVH (Jan 14, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> I'd be curious to hear your take in say... 3 months. Maybe 6. Considering there's a guy on here who's selling his Lundgrens (which were in his Ibanez).
> 
> Diffrent folks, and all that. But sometimes the shine wears off after awhile. Still, thanks for the details. Very cool, and I'm down with you being stoked.


 
 
Yeah, you're right....new is always novel, isn't it? That's why I almost never do permanent mods that I can't go back on later if I want to.


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## jtm45 (Jan 14, 2007)

The ultimate showdown would be to A/B the M7 against a BKP Ceramic Warpig7.

Did you happen to check the resistance on the M7?
They don't seem to give much actual spec details on the Lundgren site.


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## Ryan (Jan 14, 2007)

I emailed for specs (in swedish and english) and never got an answer. :/


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## Cancer (Jan 14, 2007)

I think the foam was a GREAT idea, its makes this operation totally reversible, and since the foam matches the finish of the guitar its not really visible in normal light. Kudos to your idea.

Afterthought: you should sell this idea to somebody, kinda like that guy did with the Tremol-No, its a really good alternative to pickup rings, and my gut tells me there may be some other side benefits as well.


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## God Hand Apostle (Jan 16, 2007)

I dig the foam idea as well. Looks good to me.

The last 2 pics...does the string spacing match? It looks like the bass strings are right over the polepieces, but as you go to the treble side...? I could be


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## Chris (Apr 8, 2007)

Dendroaspis said:


> Yeah, you're right....new is always novel, isn't it? That's why I almost never do permanent mods that I can't go back on later if I want to.



So what's the verdict?


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## Jongpil Yun (May 27, 2007)

Chris said:


> So what's the verdict?



2nded

It's been a few months now. Plus, I want some sound clips! Full gamut!


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## ohio_eric (May 27, 2007)

Jongpil Yun said:


> 2nded
> 
> It's been a few months now. Plus, I want some sound clips! Full gamut!


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## sh4z (Jul 12, 2007)

ohio_eric said:


>


Bump! Sound Clips Please


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## Naren (Jul 13, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Wow. Does that look ugly as hell (707 neck with M7 bridge).  What an odd choice. And those Lundgren pickups are ass ugly. Sure hope it sounds good.
> 
> Great wiring, though, and terrific picstory/tutorial/whatever! You always do such nice work, Dendro. The foam idea was brilliant!
> 
> I'm with Drew. Clips!



Those were my thoughts exactly.

Not much on looks, are ya, Dendroaspis?  I thought the guitar looked pretty cool with the 707, but then with the mix of an M7 and a 707 with that ugly foam. Yuck.

I wanna hear clips of how it sounds.


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## psychoticsnoman (Nov 29, 2007)

what is so great about the M7 that would make you swap out a 707?


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## Hubbas (Jan 4, 2008)

Im gonna pick up my Ibanez 7620 tomorrow  a freind of mine had a freind that could mount it in for me  cant wait until tomorrow


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## sh4z (Apr 13, 2009)

Been about a year now ... , no chance for clips ?


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## nosgulstic (May 1, 2009)

the pics dont work for me, anyone else have the same problem?


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## Fionn (May 2, 2009)

yeah me too, but its an old post so figures!


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## replete (Oct 26, 2009)

No pics - can we have some clips too please?


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## loktide (Oct 26, 2009)

replete said:


> No pics - can we have some clips too please?



have you looked at the date for the OP ?


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## replete (Oct 26, 2009)

Yeah, I knew it was old - still worth a shot!


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