# Extended Chords?



## ibanez254 (Apr 2, 2010)

So I'm trying out for my school's jazz band,and some of the chords on the sheet music say like 9th 13 12, and im wondering how you play these


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## 777 (Apr 2, 2010)

Jazz Guitar Chord Theory : Tensions

Hopefully this might shed some light on the matter, any questions feel free to ask im studying jazz in college atm


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## ibanez254 (Apr 2, 2010)

Thanks dude, really clears up a bunch of stuff, you got any websites that show shapes and stuff?


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## 777 (Apr 2, 2010)

ibanez254 said:


> Thanks dude, really clears up a bunch of stuff, you got any websites that show shapes and stuff?



Schecter whore posted up some non extended voicings a while ago so here they are  
You can find out which note will give you your extension and add it to these voicings, or alternatively alter one of the notes in the chord to get it, Like moving the 5th up a tone to get the 13th etc. Be careful doing that with chords that arent based off the d-g-b-e strings though because it could sound really wierd. 

If youre playing with a bassist then youll want to use the chords on the d-g-b-e strings for comping

sorry im bad at explaining things if you have Msn add me on [email protected] ill be able to give you alot more than whats there =]


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## ibanez254 (Apr 2, 2010)

Thanks man I really appreciate it.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Apr 3, 2010)

Oops! 777, you got the old version of that chord chart. A couple of the shapes on there are incorrect (like the last shape in the dominant chord row). This is the updated version.

9ths, 11ths and 13ths are compound intervals, which means that they are an octave plus something. Specifically, a ninth is a second, an eleventh is a fourth, and a thirteenth is a sixth. Here are the other intervals:

9 - octave + 2nd
10 - ... 3rd
11 - ... 4th
12 - ... 5th
13 - ... 6th
14 - ... 7th
15 - octave + octave

Obviously, 10ths, 12ths, 14ths and 15ths are redundant in the context of a chord. The maximum number of chord members an extended chord can have without having split members is seven: 1 3 5 7 9 11 13.

Usually, some members of the chord are excluded. The general rule is to exclude the fifth and include the third and seventh, and whatever extension you're going up to. So, a 13th chord could theoretically be 1 3 7 13.

In a big band context, you probably shouldn't go above a seventh, though. Maybe a ninth. If the piano and guitar are both playing big chords, it gets really muddy. Arrangers who write the same chords for guitar and piano probably play trumpet or something. Not to say it's not a valid effect - muddy chords have their use - but most band directors aren't going to even notice that you're playing seventh chords where a thirteenth is written. Anyway, here's the corrected version of that seventh chord chart. I can make one for bigger chords, if you want.


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 3, 2010)

bigger chords, you mean like just extended chords?? make one anyways, im interested in seeing it.

And do some chord charts on what chords you would use when comping in standard jazz bigbands =]


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## george galatis (Apr 3, 2010)

avoid the root and the 5th - then add more notes.. (6th - 7!!! - 9 - 13th) and also take a look on the rhythm... accent only the 2 and 4


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## 777 (Apr 3, 2010)

SchecterWhore said:


> Oops! 777, you got the old version of that chord chart.



Oops cheers for noticing that mate, i never actually used it because the next day my guitar teacher gave me infinite voicings for everything


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## ibanez254 (Apr 3, 2010)

SchecterWhore said:


> Oops! 777, you got the old version of that chord chart. A couple of the shapes on there are incorrect (like the last shape in the dominant chord row). This is the updated version.
> 
> 9ths, 11ths and 13ths are compound intervals, which means that they are an octave plus something. Specifically, a ninth is a second, an eleventh is a fourth, and a thirteenth is a sixth. Here are the other intervals:
> 
> ...




 Can't thank you enough for that!


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 4, 2010)

777 said:


> Oops cheers for noticing that mate, i never actually used it because the next day my guitar teacher gave me infinite voicings for everything



share. lol Unless we're talking just like, every voicing on the neck. which im sure I have tons of copies of somewhere.

I just want the perfect/most common jazz standard comping voicings for when in a band situation (piano, bass, horns, etc).. That is so hard, playing the standard voicings like the ones Schecter posted just sound like garbage.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Apr 4, 2010)

NickCormier said:


> I just want the perfect/most common jazz standard comping voicings for when in a band situation (piano, bass, horns, etc).. That is so hard, playing the standard voicings like the ones Schecter posted just sound like garbage.



Sorry, I will admit to not knowing the first thing about jazz guitar, as I have said before. I pretty much play whatever I can get to that is identifiable as that chord. As george galatis implied, people do play chords without the root, and this clears up a lot of muddiness when comping. I, personally, don't think "I'm playing C7", and hit E and Bb. My view on jazz is, "If you gotta," so that chord chart really reflects a rock guy whose only option for playing electric guitar at school is a big band. 

Using that idea of omitting the root and making things very bare-bones, I've made this chord chart:









777 said:


> Oops cheers for noticing that mate, i never actually used it because the next day my guitar teacher gave me infinite voicings for everything



I am also very interested in this.


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## 777 (Apr 7, 2010)

SchecterWhore said:


> I am also very interested in this.



Well i was exaggerating to be honest, Most of the tensions and alterations i play in college are based off what ive got which is 

Root Low E and Root A Inversions for 

Maj7/Min7/Min7(b5)/Dom7 (4 inversions each basicly starting on R,3,5,7)

And then ive got The same for Root D (most common jazz comping chords with a group)

Same again Maj7/min7 etc except with these the Tensions or extentions as you call them are easily attained from moving one note in the chord


The thing about jazz comping is you need to get out of the way of the bass player and any other comping instrument.

Eg. No bass register notes (starting on E+A) makes things sound muddy when the bassist is walking or even playing 2 in the bar

Even in the D string voicings the root is left to the bass player and tensions/chord tones are played by the guitarist.

Also in jazz comping voice leading is ultimately important, the less you move while comping the more smooth itll sound

Sorry if thats a bit off im very tired and cant think straight


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Apr 8, 2010)

777 said:


> Sorry if thats a bit off im very tired and cant think straight





One thing I've never understood is the voice leading. I mean, I certainly get the principle, I've been composing in four and five part harmony for two years, but doing it on guitar is weird, unless I'm reading notation. Do you think about the chord you're playing, have a shape that has the chord members where you want them, and omit the root?


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 8, 2010)

SchecterWhore said:


> One thing I've never understood is the voice leading. I mean, I certainly get the principle, I've been composing in four and five part harmony for two years, but doing it on guitar is weird, unless I'm reading notation. Do you think about the chord you're playing, have a shape that has the chord members where you want them, and omit the root?



I always looked at it as just making the least amount of changes in your chord shapes as you go thru progressions. Which is very hard to do on the fly on guitar, as opposed to Piano which you can kinda see the notes more clearly.

Guitar is serious stuff.


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 8, 2010)

777 said:


> Well i was exaggerating to be honest, Most of the tensions and alterations i play in college are based off what ive got which is
> 
> Root Low E and Root A Inversions for
> 
> ...



This is what I am after.. Basically all the "usable" chord shapes for comping that involves ONLY the top 4 strings. No E and A strings. I am sure I have lists of all the inversions and crap played on all the top 4 strings, and theres definately the standard ones I use (like Maj7, Min7, Dim7, the easy shapes to remember), but I find using just any inversion sometimes sounds like shit when comping. So I just wonder what these magical chord shapes that every jazz guitarist use, it seems everyone uses similar shapes (when watching videos/people on stage) yet when I ask any teacher about which ones they are, that sound good, they give me that jazz bullshit "Use whatever works for you".. I dont care what works for ME, I want the standard shit to get me thru any standard in a band situation.. Thats why I keep making lots of posts asking "What chord shapes would you do in this progression, comping, assuming you have a full band with you" but all people give me is the same "Do whatever you want" or the freddie green chords, which dont help me at all =[

Its frustrating, I know I should just learn every inversion in every position and every blah blah, but the times that I actually play jazz in a band setting is few and far between, where I play other things everyday which need hard practice too that.. and when I needed the chords badly was when I was still in college but since no one could help me get them, I had to do the standard 5-note chords or sound shitty with the only 4note inversions that I knew on the top 4 strings, which always sounded like junk, so I always hated playing in those situations. 

I just need a base, to give me an idea of the important things to remember and then build off from there, like you do when people give you the standard barre chords then standard freddie green chords, they give you the base which fits in most situations then you learn the alterations for extension chords and inversions.

I got to a point where I started playing just guidetones/ 3rds and 7ths in situations, but thats hard to do on the spot sometimes, esp in a fast flowing progression. I cant think on my feet that fast yet.


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