# Super Smash Brothers 4 coming this summer (3DS) and winter (WiiU)



## HeHasTheJazzHands

EDIT: Some info from the recent Direct:



> &#8226; The Wii U version will have online play, like Brawl.
> - Sakurai recommends using a LAN adapter for online on Wii U.
> 
> &#8226; You can play with friends online, or choose to play in 2 other modes: For Fun and For Glory mode.
> 
> &#8226; There will be no ranking for online mode, but there will be a form of match making.
> 
> &#8226; 3DS has online multiplayer as well. Requires stable connection.
> 
> &#8226; Many people played on Final Destination, now many stages have a Final Destination like platform.
> 
> &#8226; Global Smash Power is a new ranking system,
> 
> &#8226; All characters that used to change forms, no longer do.
> 
> &#8226; Custom move sets have been revealed, and you can only use them against friends online or locally.
> 
> &#8226; A new game mode will be available only on 3DS called, Smash Run. This is a battle game of up to 4 players where you search a dungeon-like stage for power ups. After a 5 min time limit the powered up fighters compete in a free-for-all.





> UPDATE (6:43) I'm went back and checked out exaclty how Little Mac's KO move worked. He has a power meter that rests above his percentage. Connecting with attacks and getting hit by enemies will fill his power meter. When the meter is full, he can land a powerful auto-KO shot.
> 
> His final smash turns him into GigaMac. He becomes a super human version of Mac that packs an emormous punch.
> 
> (6:39) and THAT concludes the Nintendo Direct. Tons of information given in that brief rundown. It mostly concerned the 3DS version, but that's not a bad thing. It seems to be coming along nicely. So those were game modes, new characters, items, and online play. Still no release date, but still some important information there. Quality Nintendo Direct. What say you?
> 
> (6:34) And that is all she wrote. A montage is being shown now. Links, Mario, donkey Kong, Samus, Kirby, Yoshi, Fox, Pikachu, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Zelda, Sheik, Marth, Pit, Zero Suit Samus, Pikmin & Olimar, Diddy Kong, Dedede, Lucario, Toon Link, Sonic, Villager, Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainers, Rosalina & Luma, Little Mac.
> 
> and.....
> 
> Charzard! Yep, Charzard will be his own character. A huge cinematic battle is shown with him taking on the whole crew. Also Greninja!
> 
> Greninja looks crazy fast. Has a teleport ability, invisability, Wow, looks awesome.
> 
> (6:31) New mode alert! Smash Run mode. They're showing it before explaining it. Looks like this is the mode that will take the place of a single player mode. It's only in the 3DS version. It's playable by up to 4 players, and it's a journey mode where players will explore, fight enemies, and obtain power ups. Looks a lot like All-Star Mode in Melee. At the end of stages, the players will come together and fight each other. Players will journey through the levels seperately, and meet at the end. The jouney acts as a pre-battle competition. Earned items can be used in the final battle. Enemies will be randomly generated each time the mode is played. A laundy list of Nintendo enemies are show. All kinds of random enemies from Nintendo's catalog.
> 
> (6:30) Players can have custome move sets. They aren't saying what exactly that means, but it can't be used when in the online arena. It can be used when playing friends online, however.
> 
> (6:28) Villager time. He looks charming and weird, but not very practical. I hope the video changes my mind. He's chopping down trees, building houses. Hmm. They didn't explain any of his moves.
> 
> Mega Man time. Tons of moves. He has a spike, moves taken from different bosses. Rush Coil. His Final Smash looked like a MvC Ultra. So shiny.
> 
> Wii Fit Trainer time. Weird. Her moves are yoga inspired, and not the yoga flame. More like Sun Salutation.
> 
> (6:25) Little Mac now. He's small, but fast and strong. His punches look crazy fast. He will be best on the ground vs. in the air. That's usually not a great thing for Smash characters. Should be interesting. His attack power is weakened in the air, and his recover is quote "just terrible." He has an insta-KO move! When it's charged and armed, one hit will grant and instant KO. That certainly looks valuable. Little Mac will have a wireframe costume. Cool stuff.
> 
> (6:23) Rosalina sends Luma out and brings it back. Looks kind of like a powered up turnip from Peach. She looks similar to Peach all around. The Luma can be controlled independently. Star Bits can be launched as a projectile. Launch Star is her recovery move. Whoa! Gravitational Pull can bring in items.
> 
> (6:17) Returning fighters and abilities are now bing shown. So much info! No more character changes like Samus and Zero Suit Samus. Characters will stay as they are. Zero Suit Samus returns! She now has jet boots. Those giver her power and speed. Zelda is back. No more changing forms now, so it's just Zelda. No Shiek.
> 
> But Sheik returns as her own character.
> 
> Kirby is back. The power hammer is back as a charge move. Ultra sword is his final smash. King Dedede is back, too. He throws gordos now as well as waddle dees and doos. Lucario returns as well. He has a charge ability that affects all his moves.
> 
> Olimar gets the spotlight now. He picks Pikmin again, but picks them in a specific order now different Pikmin will have different abilities. That's great that they won't be random now. Winged Pikmin will be his get-back.
> 
> Pit is back, and no longer has his glide ability.
> 
> One more fighter: it's Yoshi. Yoshi will stand upright and not be hunched over. Still has the tail whip and the running down A ability.
> 
> 
> 
> (6:15) Pokemon are being shown off now: Meouth, Evee, Staryu, Metagross, Fennekin, Meloetta, Gogoat, Entei, Deoxys, Palkia, Kyurem, Victini, Keldeo, Xerneas,
> 
> (6:14) Assist Trophies get the focus: Andross, Devis, Knuckle Joe, Saki Amamiya, Lyn, Nintendog, Waluigi, Dr. Wright, Skull Kid, Mother Brain, Midna, Ashley, Dark Samus, Chain Chomp, Isabelle, Elec Man, Color TV-Game 15 (looks like Pong).
> 
> (6:12) There will be an online ranking system. It's called Global Smash Power. You'll have a score that is based ranks your performance in different modes. There won't be online competitve rankings.
> 
> Now it's showing off items. Back shild, Bombchu, fairy bottel, fire wall, ore club, POW block, X bomb, smart bomb, Hocotate bomb, rocket belt, steel diver, and others. They look like nice and original additions, with little recycling.
> 
> (6:10) No more anonymous online matches. Nintendo Online ID will show up in matches. There will be a code of conduct: Bans are possible for staring and not playing, dropping, cheats, self distructing, and other things. Nice addition!
> 
> (6:08) Tiki from Fire Emblem is announced. Now the focus is online. Online play will be on the 3DS version, just like the Wii U version. Players can play online with friends, or against strangers. Nintendo recommends a LAN adapter for the Wii U. Two online modes, For Fun and For Glory. For Fun stages will be random, and objects will be on. For Glory Mode will be Final Destination only, and no items. For Glory will tally wins and losses. For Fun will only record wins. Wow, that's pretty cool. I sure hope the online is stable.
> 
> (6:06) A Mega Man stage is being shown now. Whoa, the stage launches an enemy like a Mega Man boss. The enemy is called the Yellow Devil. This looks like a team-based game where friends team up to try to take out a boss.
> 
> (6:02) Rosters for both games will be the same, but stages will be different. Stages may have the same layout, but appearance will differ. Stages from teh 3DS version are being shown. Living Room for Nintendogs was shown. Music can be selected for different stages.
> 
> Time for a stage showcase. Moving stages are back. Keep in mind this is just the 3DS version being shown. Lots of stage movement: rotating stages, interactive objects. Jungle Japes is back. Mario Galaxy is in there. Pyrosphere from Metroid. Town and city from Animal Crossing. Boxing Ring from Punch-Out. Pilot Wings. Skyloft from Zelda. Windy Hill from Sonic. Garden of Hope from Pikmin. Wii Fit Studio. Paluena's Temple from Kid Icarus. halberd looks identical to Brawl. Each system will have different familiar stages.
> 
> (6:00) Annnnnd we're live! Nintendo Direct starts with Masahiro Sakurai kicks things off. 3DS version will be released in Summer. Wii U is coming out in Winer. 3DS Smash will run at 60 FPS, and will be in stereoscopic 3D. Stages may run at 30 FPS, but fighters will flow at 60. Hmmm, that sounds interesting.


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## caskettheclown

SUPER excited for

MEGAMAN!!

and

LIL MAC!!!!


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## Robby the Robot

I'm pretty sure Winter 2014 is a misprint. 

I kind of want to get a Gamecube and play Melee again. My friend I one time played a match with an unlimited time limit, which was a bad idea. When we started, it was 12:15am. What felt like fifteen minutes, was three hours later when we looked out that clock. 

Good times. Goooood times.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

RTheodoppalus said:


> I'm pretty sure Winter 2014 is a misprint.



Pretty sure even Sakurai confirmed it.


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## Robby the Robot

It's already spring 2014 though? Maybe it's already out and I'm just behind then.


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## Sofos

RTheodoppalus said:


> It's already spring 2014 though? Maybe it's already out and I'm just behind then.



Winter 2014 is October, November, December.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yeah, looks like it'll be out for the holiday season.


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## StevenC

Can't wait for this! Greninja will be an awesome character, super happy about that. Though, they haven't announced Roy's return yet, which is worrying. I've had to play as Marth the past few years.


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## Choop

StevenC said:


> Can't wait for this! Greninja will be an awesome character, super happy about that. Though, they haven't announced Roy's return yet, which is worrying. I've had o play as Marth the past few years.



Project M! 

I lol @ Samus, they gave her the boob treatment from Other M. 

I'm pretty excited about this game though, if for nothing else than to play Mega Man!~


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## StevenC

Choop said:


> Project M!



Doesn't work with PAL, unfortunately.

I hope they bring back Poke Floats, as well. I miss that stage. And MasterBalls look like a good addition.


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## RobertStyx

Last nights direct has gotten me hyped for the game. I wasn't previously, wasn't even planning on getting it. Gonna have to try and find the funds for it before the summer.

Super pleased Zero Suit Samus and Sheik have been made independent characters now as well. I like both of them, but don't care too much for Samus or Zelda, so didn't play them too much.



StevenC said:


> Can't wait for this! Greninja will be an awesome character, super happy about that. Though, they haven't announced Roy's return yet, which is worrying. I've had o play as Marth the past few years.



I'm betting that Chrom will replacing Roy/Ike this time. =/


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## StevenC

Yeah, Chrom is a sound bet. Why not all four, Nintendo?

Also, since they're spacing the games out so much, they just sold me on the 3DS version. My two flat mates and I will each be getting a copy of this game to keep us until the Wii U version.


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## Ralyks

Dammit, I was hoping to avoid getting a Wii U...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

A Nintendo employee said that there were some "teasers" hidden in the recent Direct. Internet detectives went to work.


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## StevenC

Ridley won't be a newcomer, because he was teased to be in the game in a similar way to the Yellow Devil, but on Pyrosphere. The voice over says something about other bosses appearing in a similar capacity and you see Ridley's shadow fly into view while looking at the ground in Pyrosphere.

Chrom and Ghirahim I could definitely see being in the game. If they've added a City Trial style game mode, then Palutena is a possibility, too.

I've been wrong before, but I don't see Ridley being a playable character.


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## BlackMastodon

Sheik and Charizard as a standalone character? Greninja, too? And the 3DS version is coming out in the summer? Time to dust off the ol' girl. I am excite.

Also Chrom would be pretty damn badass.


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## Don Vito

Official Trailer


I'll never buy a Wii U, but a 3DS version could be decent if they make the online work. Nintendo games always have weird online modes.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Bandi/Namco is supposed to be handling the net code.


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## Rokkaholic

StevenC said:


> Can't wait for this! Greninja will be an awesome character, super happy about that. Though, they haven't announced Roy's return yet, which is worrying. I've had to play as Marth the past few years.



I wouldn't hold my breath on Roy. He was a relatively unpopular lord in FE and mainly got in because he was the poster boy for the latest FE at the time. Expect a FE:Awakening character for sure though. That said, I don't get around to playing many video games anymore, but I'm so hyped for this! Almost excited as I am for my .strandberg* lol


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## bigswifty

This will have me buying a Wii U this year. Smash Bros alone is worth it, but I need it for the next Zelda and Metroid (Prime like, NOT OTHER M).

Nothing like a good bout of Drinkin' Smash Bros with the boys


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## StevenC

So just a thought...

The new Final Destination stage is awfully reminiscent of Soulcalibur. And Namco Bandai make Soulcalibur. Could we be getting come characters from that franchise?


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## SnowfaLL

so pumped for this game.. Very big competitive scene behind it. I may buy a wii U for it actually, but will definitely get the 3ds version even if its not as competitive.


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## TheHandOfStone

Same, this and Pokemon forced me to get a 3DS. Looking forward to it.


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## Sofos

TheHandOfStone said:


> Same, this and Pokemon forced me to get a 3DS. Looking forward to it.



These and Animal Crossing, for me


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## Alberto7

Ever since this game was announced, I've been pumped about it, and, along with whatever Zelda comes out for it, it'll be another solid reason for me to get a Wii U. However, after the last Nintendo Direct, I literally went all







Pumped isn't even a word. I think I'm just gonna end up getting it for the 3DS, and then, whenever I save up enough for a Wii U, I'll get it for the Wii U.

With that said, I can't really see Ridley as a playable character. However, Ghirahim... I'd be all over that shit.


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## Alberto7

This is the best thing I've seen in a while:


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Rumor: Pac-Man, Mii and Many Others Still Coming to Smash Bros | GenGAME



> A tipster from last year is back with even more potential playable characters from the new Smash Bros game. Last year, Gematsu was tipped off prior to E3 about six new characters. Those six characters were: Wii Fit Trainer, Little Mac, Mega Man, The Villager, Pac-Man and Mii. So far, all but Pac-Man and Mii have been confirmed.
> Gematsu has received yet another email from the same tipster, who claims Pac-Man and Mii are still coming. Not only that, but they were also tipped off about even more characters.
> 
> Shulk (Xenoblade)
> Palutena (Kid Icarus)
> Chrom (Fire Emblem: Awakening)
> Chorus Men (Rhythm Heaven)
> Pokemon from Pokemon X and Y (Mega Charizard and Greninja already confirmed)
> None of this information is confirmed and should be taken with a grain of salt.
> 
> Source: Maximilian Dood Youtube Channel


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## InfinityCollision

I could see all of those, although Shulk seems like a mildly odd choice unless they're also going to include someone from X.

Also, Pacman? Hm. Curious how he'd work


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

They're probably using him because of the connection with Namco. I do wonder which Pac-Man they'd use if it's true.


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## Alberto7

InfinityCollision said:


> Also, Pacman? Hm. Curious how she'd work



Ftfy.


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## asher

I'm gonna miss Ike (assuming I'm ever around someone with a Wii U to play it, that is).


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Ike was my main man, right next to Falco. Was slow as shit, but his smash attacks were the best in the game.


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## StevenC

I disagree with the guy in the video. The Villager from Animal Crossing is someone who I figured was a no-brainer for this game, and probably should have been in Brawl. And Wii Fit Trainer is a pretty logical choice considering how popular that game was and how recognisable the character is. Then the Mii has been in recent Mario Karts and the Wii Sports games so that's an obvious choice. I'd be genuinely surprised if the Mii isn't a character. The only character I don't see being in the game is Pac-Man because I have no idea what sort of move set he'd have, and he really isn't that relevant a character anymore.

I want to know if we'll see Lucas returning.


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## asher

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Ike was my main man, right next to Falco. Was slow as shit, but his smash attacks were the best in the game.



Ike, Wolf, Marth, and Lucas (but only the ginger color, ofc.) Ike himself is a fatass, but aside from his epic and incredibly brutal (second only to Ganondorf) smashes, he has a number of quick moves to keep things changing


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

StevenC said:


> I disagree with the guy in the video. The Villager from Animal Crossing is someone who I figured was a no-brainer for this game, and probably should have been in Brawl.



I think Sakurai has said before that he scrapped Villager for Brawl, which is why people think this. Given the huge success of New Leaf, I think he changed his mind.


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## StevenC

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think Sakurai has said before that he scrapped Villager for Brawl, which is why people think this. Given the huge success of New Leaf, I think he changed his mind.



Did he say why he scrapped Villager? He had a stage for the character, too. Unless they ran out of time, or something, I don't really see why they'd take such a character out. Wild World was a pretty popular game.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

He said he didn't fit in a fighting game, or something like that.


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## StevenC

Then he mustn't have played any of the Animal Crossing games. I think I tried chopping down more NPCs than trees with that axe. Or leaving a field of pitfall traps in front of someones house, though, at least those made the cut.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

As someone who used Ike a lot... .... yeah.


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## asher

Infantry tan/green with red cape or bust.


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## StevenC

I really wasn't expecting anymore updates until E3 for this game. I figured they'd just announce the rest of the lineup in one giant 2 hour SSBFWUa3DS Nintendo Direct.

Cool that Ike's back, now it's time to announce Roy.


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## Alberto7

Having Roy in the roster would be great. He still is my main character in Melee.

Good news about Ike, too. He's not a main of mine, but I like him a lot and I'm familiar with his moves. I'm happy to be able to use him in this game.


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## StevenC

I find it kind of odd that they haven't announced old characters like Captain Falcon or Ness. I mean, they've been in every other game, so they'll be in the game, along with the likes of Ganondorf and Falcon, just it's funny they haven't announced them. These days, Captain Falcon is more a SSB character than he is an F-Zero character.

Unless there's a new F-Zero game coming out and they want to make a big splash at E3?

Also, I see no reason not to have every character that has appeared in the series in the game. Bring back Mewtwo, Dr Mario, Pichu and Young Link, as well as Roy. Also, Plusle and Minun should be in the game. Pickachu/Pichu meets Ice Climbers.


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## StevenC

Wii U Gamecube controller adapter! And hopefully, they'll make some more GC controllers, because mine are wearing out and there are still GC games I want to play.


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## thevisi0nary

really though who cares about this, there are a thousand good characters they could add to this that they wont. Everything was progress up until this point, now it will just be more of the same. 

at first i thought this was the confirmed character list, and i was EXTREMELY excited but too bad nintendo cant do anything for og fans. 
Super Smash Brothers 4 characters


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

thevisi0nary said:


> really though who cares about this, there are a thousand good characters they could add to this that they wont. Everything was progress up until this point, now it will just be more of the same.



I'd save the bitching until the entire roster is released, probably at E3.


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## thevisi0nary

i lie though i am still excited for it lol


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## thevisi0nary

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'd save the bitching until the entire roster is released, probably at E3.



I doubt worthy characters like those from golden sun or any bad guy from mega man will be in the game. Im aware im whining a bit and that putting in mii and wii fit trainer are good for marketing but i cant deny to myself what the game would be like if they put nintendo characters that were made for fighting.


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## StevenC

^Mr Game & Watch is one of the most OG Nintendo characters ever, and he is not made for fighting.

The game will be better off with interesting new characters doing interesting new things. It's a game about Nintendo characters, so Wii Fit Trainer is just as relevant as Mario.

As cool as a Golden Sun character would be, I don't think the franchise is significant enough in Nintendo's history. Mega Man characters would be cool, but it was probably enough work just to get Mega Man himself in the game as a playable character.


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## Alberto7

thevisi0nary said:


> at first i thought this was the confirmed character list, and i was EXTREMELY excited but too bad nintendo cant do anything for og fans.
> Super Smash Brothers 4 characters



LOL at that list. Altair. Gordon Freeman. Kratos. wat. Whoever made that list was likely drunk. 

In any case, I, for one, am happy with the current roster. I never expected the more obscure characters and franchises to make an appearance (although that's always really cool). Honestly, it still surprises me until today that Solid Snake made it into Brawl  he feels so off being in there. Even then, there are quite a few cool new features that I'd love to try out and that I feel enhance a lot of the gaming experience.


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## StevenC

I was looking through that list and laughed when I saw Akari Hayami!

Wave Race would not work in Smash Bros...

Though, now that we're talking about it, new Wave Race game, please?


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## thevisi0nary

StevenC said:


> ^Mr Game & Watch is one of the most OG Nintendo characters ever, and he is not made for fighting.
> 
> The game will be better off with interesting new characters doing interesting new things. It's a game about Nintendo characters, so Wii Fit Trainer is just as relevant as Mario.
> 
> As cool as a Golden Sun character would be, I don't think the franchise is significant enough in Nintendo's history. Mega Man characters would be cool, but it was probably enough work just to get Mega Man himself in the game as a playable character.



i do agree with this as game and watch is one of my favorite brawl characters. It will be good i was upset initially.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

GenGAME Wii U GameCube Controller Adapter Revealed by Nintendo, New Super Smash Bros. Tournament Details

Semi-related.












If this isn't TOO expensive, I don't have to worry about blowing like $180 on 3 Pro controllers.


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## MFB

Can't you only use one pro controller per WiiU anyways, so why buy extras?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

MFB said:


> Can't you only use one pro controller per WiiU anyways, so why buy extras?



Really? I never knew that.


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## MFB

Yeah, 99% sure that's the case and everyone else can use either the regular WiiMote/Nunchuk or Classic Controller

Silver lining: you just saved $180 by NOT buying them?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

True.  I already have a Wii Motion Plus remote and a classic pro controller. Could probably buy another WMP + CP controller if the time arises.


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## StevenC

You can use up to 4 Pro Controllers at once.

I have, like, 6 GC controllers, probably 8 Wiimotes and a Classic Controller. Don't have one of the Pro controllers yet, but my roommate has one and it's awesome. I was kind of excited for getting a bunch of them.


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## InfinityCollision

The music when they announce the GC controller adapter is gold


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## StevenC

October 3rd is not Summer! Not cool Nintendo.

That's the 3DS release date, FYI.


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## Alberto7

Omg that Palutena intro was amazing.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

E3 2014: GameCube Adapter, Controller, and Smash Bundle Pricing Revealed - IGN



> Nintendo unveiled pricing details for a group of Smash Bros. related peripherals today.
> 
> The GameCube Controller Adapter for Wii U, which supports up to four GCN controllers (including WaveBird), will be available for $19.99 USD.
> 
> Nintendo will also sell Smash Bros. branded GameCube controllers for $29.99 USD each. Lastly, a special Smash Bros. for Wii U bundle, which includes a copy of the game, one adapter, and a GCN controller, will be sold for $99.99 USD.


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## TheHandOfStone

Pac Man confirmed.


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## InfinityCollision

Huh. Well then.

Anybody else watch the invitational? I caught some of it, need to go back and watch the rest.


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## Alberto7

The invitational was stupidly exhilarating, and it did nothing but make the hype train go even faster and pick up momentum.

Also, seeing Zelda Williams play as Link and then hearing the commentator scream at the top of his lungs "ZELDA HAS GOT THE SMASHBALL" made my mind implode for several reasons, the irony of it being the first one.


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## Sofos

Alberto7 said:


> The invitational was stupidly exhilarating, and it did nothing but make the hype train go even faster and pick up momentum.
> 
> Also, seeing Zelda Williams play as Link and then hearing the commentator scream at the top of his lungs "ZELDA HAS GOT THE SMASHBALL" made my mind implode for several reasons, the irony of it being the first one.


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## Alberto7

That's exactly it. The commentator was right and wrong at the same time. He could have made a terrible mistake, or maybe he did it on purpose. Maybe he didn't even realize. Maybe he just likes puns... or not. We'll never know.


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## StevenC

I was expecting about 7 more newcomers to be announced today. Then a bunch of returning characters, and Mewtwo, probably caption "Mewtwo Strikes Back".


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Zelda wasn't link, she was Greninja.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

.... yeah, they picked the best Pac-Man!


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## InfinityCollision

Yeah, Zelda was Greninja. I think he said it while she did actually have the smash ball though? I remember her whiffing it on that try and then landing it on a later attempt.

It was nice to get an early look at some of the characters. I could see myself playing Greninja a bit, especially if Wolf doesn't return. Maybe even Wii Fit Trainer. Marth is a given for me unless they do something terrible to him


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## Alberto7

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Zelda wasn't link, she was Greninja.



... well, then.

... 

Sorry about that, I guess.  I could have sworn she had chosen Link. You just had to come in and talk us some truth, didn't you?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Sorry.  

Well, from what I remember, Greninja was kicking decent ass, while Link was sucking, so it obviously isn't her since she's apparently a hardcore SSB player. 

Plus, on her Twitter, she keeps talking about Greninja.

EDIT: 
Pac-man Kirby. Looks weird as shit. 






3DS Pac-man with what looks like a Dig Dug enemy






Epic trio of 3rd party (even though Pac-Man is more like 2nd party or something )






Gaming veterans duking it out.


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## InfinityCollision

Going back through the invitational now, one thing I find interesting is that internal testing is supposedly coming up with Samus as top dog right now. Obviously it's still early and limited testing time generates limited results, but it's interesting to think about given the way the game has played out over the last couple iterations.


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## Don Vito

Thank .... they didn't use deviantart pac man.

And Majora's Mask remake confirmed.


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## asher

Don Vito said:


> Thank .... they didn't use deviantart pac man.



I don't want to know


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

InfinityCollision said:


> Going back through the invitational now, one thing I find interesting is that internal testing is supposedly coming up with Samus as top dog right now. Obviously it's still early and limited testing time generates limited results, but it's interesting to think about given the way the game has played out over the last couple iterations.




I've heard countless times that Meta Knight and Marth were the best, which is why I also agree.


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## StevenC

Pac-Man Kirby is terrifying!

EDIT: Meta Knight was the best in Brawl because of his endless attacks and he had the highest priority attacks, too.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

StevenC said:


> Pac-Man Kirby is terrifying!



No matter how bad Kirb-Man is, it will never top the terror that is modern Pac-Man.






I was legit afraid they were going to choose this one. Props to Sakurai for choosing superior Pac-Man.

EDIT: more epic art. 






Holy shit, they're going for maximum nostalgia. 



Don Vito said:


> And Majora's Mask remake confirmed.



Man, if that unannounced E3 game ends up being MM3DS, .... that gaming computer I planned. Nintendo is getting all my money.


----------



## Don Vito

asher said:


> I don't want to know


Pacman and the Ghostly adventures Episode 7 Full Episode - YouTube


----------



## Alberto7

Well, Samus did take the front and center spot on the Wii U game package. It most likely doesn't mean anything, but I guess I just like the irony of it. I am also glad that they boosted Zero Suit Samus's strength. She's one of my favorites in Brawl, but her lack of strength kind of frustrated me at times. She had a lot of potential, and it seems it's being exploited now.


----------



## InfinityCollision

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I've heard countless times that Meta Knight and Marth were the best, which is why I also agree.



Meta Knight has the dubious honor (well, dubious in that it represents poor balancing) of holding an almost undisputed #1 spot for pretty much the entire time Brawl's been out. He's usually placed in his own tier due to the lead he has over other characters in tournament play (some tournaments ban his use), but even in a more semi-casual setting it's really easy to see how incredibly powerful he is. Marth's been in the top tiers (though not #1) for most of SSBM and SSBB's respective lifetimes and Ken's longtime dominance as a Marth main certainly doesn't hurt that perception of dominance. I didn't enjoy him as much in Brawl with the changes he got, but I have a soft spot for agile swordsmen and clever countering.



Alberto7 said:


> Well, Samus did take the front and center spot on the Wii U game package. It most likely doesn't mean anything, but I guess I just like the irony of it. I am also glad that they boosted Zero Suit Samus's strength. She's one of my favorites in Brawl, but her lack of strength kind of frustrated me at times. She had a lot of potential, and it seems it's being exploited now.



Agreed. I love her playstyle, but I never really got into playing Zero Suit because she felt so underpowered. That could change this time around.


----------



## StevenC

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> No matter how bad Kirb-Man is, it will never top the terror that is modern Pac-Man.



Amazingly, I had completely forgotten about that Pac-Man. When I thought of 3D Pac-Man, I was thinking about exactly what we're getting and was wondering what the complaints about a possible Smash Bros appearance were about. Thanks, I guess...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Just had to share this. 








...



And I remember seeing the new Pac Man when I was babysitting my cousin (who happens to also be as big of a Nintendo fan as me ). I was watching the new Pac-Man show with him, and I just couldn't stand how he looks. REALLY damn glad they chose the retro design.


----------



## asher

Is Captain Falcon finally out?


----------



## InfinityCollision

Super Smash Bros. Smash-Fest @ Best Buy

Best Buy's hosting Smash U play today (4-9) and Saturday (12-5) at select stores. Probably going to check it out Saturday myself.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Clueless Gamer: Conan Reviews "Super Smash Bros." @ TeamCoco.com


----------



## Alberto7

^ I think that video alone was better than all of E3 today!  God, I love Conan some times. 

On another note, I found this video really cool! (although not as funny as HHTJH's ) The reaction to Pacman got me all pumped!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Hearing the reaction when Pac-Man opens his mouth reminded me of the TP reaction from E3 '04. So awesome. 

Character customization looks especially awesome.


----------



## TheHandOfStone

Posting an odd game balance hope/demand: characters should not be able to be grabbed while in hitstun.

Previous games (especially Brawl) had issues with inescapable (or near-inescapable) throw setups. The Ice Climbers can kill you off of a single grab in both Melee and Brawl, and certain characters have near-unwinnable matchups due to character-specific quirks of hitboxes and grabboxes. It would be so much easier if Smash 4 (like other games) didn't allow you to combo into throws. You could still combo out of them with unscaled damage, making them as rewarding (or moreso) than they are in other fighters. It would, however, prevent some of the silliness and gimmick-dominated gameplay without gambling on the vigilance of the balance team.


----------



## InfinityCollision

From what I've heard they seem to have done it the other way around: there's a lot of lag after throws and it's difficult to combo off grabs as a result. Comboing as a whole seems to be pretty limited right now, a lot of the tricks from Brawl seem to be out too. Whether they're using a limited implementation of the game engine for demos or if mechanics have actually been neutered remains to be seen.

Frankly I think both approaches are weak because they promote trading blows and defensive play instead of aggressive pursuit for combos, which is preferable no matter your level of play because it creates a more intense experience. Momentum becomes more significant. It's more fun to play and to watch. Within reason of course - I'm not trying to argue in favor of 0-death combos and there are measures that could be taken to address that without killing the combo game. Developing effective counters is the way to go, not artificially strangling combos.

Regarding what was said about Samus previously, this is HugS' take on it:



> Played Samus for over 14 years, & 16 other knowledgeable players didn't pick her. If you believe Samus was the best, you are sadly mistaken


----------



## asher

I feel like you guys are asking a lot of a Smash game in terms of arcade fighter mechanics 

While I do wish they were more tightly and evenly balanced... and it would be great if the fighting could get more in-depth, I just don't think it'll happen. 

Thinking about it, yeah, I think Infinity's right that what the game really needs is a better counter system. I'm of the opinion you should be able to combo with grabs (because that's cool and useful) but it should never be unbreakable (duh), and aside from tweaking frames of moves having a better defined counter/priority system might be the answer.


----------



## InfinityCollision

The thing is that all of this is possible without negatively impacting the party game side of it. In fact, I'd argue that it's beneficial to the party game experience for the aforementioned reasons. All of my gamer friends, from the casuals to the guys who know all the fancy tricks and combos, default to Melee at least 90% of the time when choosing between Melee and Brawl. While the depth in that game wasn't intentional, it managed to cater extremely well to both ends of the spectrum. Sakurai seems to think the two are incompatible though.

I'm not saying we need Melee 2.0 (we don't), but Smash 4 comes across as being closer to Brawl than its own game right now. There are a couple of changes I like (ledgehogging got nerfed hard), but I'm withholding judgement on the rest for now. There's still a couple months left to tweak the game.


----------



## crg123

Don Vito said:


> And Majora's Mask remake confirmed.




O____o

Omg...


----------



## InfinityCollision

It's not official... yet. Zelda Williams bringing a Majora's Mask onstage was intriguing though.


----------



## asher

InfinityCollision said:


> The thing is that all of this is possible without negatively impacting the party game side of it. In fact, I'd argue that it's beneficial to the party game experience for the aforementioned reasons. All of my gamer friends, from the casuals to the guys who know all the fancy tricks and combos, default to Melee at least 90% of the time when choosing between Melee and Brawl. While the depth in that game wasn't intentional, it managed to cater extremely well to both ends of the spectrum. Sakurai seems to think the two are incompatible though.
> 
> I'm not saying we need Melee 2.0 (we don't), but Smash 4 comes across as being closer to Brawl than its own game right now. There are a couple of changes I like (ledgehogging got nerfed hard), but I'm withholding judgement on the rest for now. There's still a couple months left to tweak the game.



I suppose that's fair.

For some reason I like Brawl much better. I'm not sure why - I may just prefer the faster/smoother feel.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

asher said:


> I suppose that's fair.
> 
> For some reason I like Brawl much better. I'm not sure why - I may just prefer the faster/smoother feel.



Melee is faster, though. Brawl is known for being pretty slow and floaty.

Also, just thought I'd put this here;






It's ....ing adorable. Miyamoto still a child inside confirmed.


----------



## asher

Is it? It's been years since I've played, and there was a bit of a gap.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yeah. the main complaints, about Brawl, that hardcore Melee players have is that it's slower-paced, which is why a lot of SSB tournaments are based about Melee.


----------



## asher

Huh.

I'm just weird


----------



## InfinityCollision

Yeah, the overall pacing of Brawl is slower. Characters tend to move slower as a whole, and then playstyle also slowed down because of changes to comboing and buffed defensive abilities (shields especially). The tournament-level guys lost their tricks from Melee but I think they found a few new ones in Brawl so I'm not sure how much of an impact that particular aspect had.

SSB4 seems to be somewhere in the middle right now. Mostly sped up a bit from Brawl, but a few things have apparently been slowed down.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Judging by the Treehouse demo and the tournament, it definitely looks quicker-paced than Brawl. The smash ball spawning seems a LOT quicker though.


----------



## InfinityCollision

I noticed that too. Most matches saw 3 smash balls, and best I recall only one match saw just one (when Megaman got it). It's possible that they upped the spawn rate for the demo build, or that not all items are implemented in that build and spawn rates are off right now because of that.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

If it's anything like the previous games, then hopefully you can reduce the amount of each individual item. I remember during one of the tourney battles, scarf kid got like 3 of them in one match.


----------



## asher

I'm actually surprised tourneys run them, a lot of people I know play with smash balls off. Given how wildly varying in power level the abilities are I can't say I blame them, but it makes me sad.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Tournaments don't normally use items at all. Depending on the tournament, several of those stages likely would be removed (Wiley's Castle, likely Punch-Out) or counterpicks only as well.

The invitational deviated from normal tourney rules in several respects. If they'd been playing by the usual tournament rules instead of the rules Nintendo set, HBox (Kirby) would have likely won the final match. ZeRo stalled at the end because he knew it was his best chance of winning. He was smart enough to realize that HBox was getting solid reads, had the margin to win, and had a toolkit that was workable against pretty much everything but ZSS's vastly superior aerial mobility. Very nearly still lost.

Kinda goes back to what I've been talking about before - tourney rules encourage aggressive play over stall tactics. More action, more fun. There was a lot of camping going on throughout the entire tournament as a result of the FFA matches (also unusual), items on, and how winners were determined.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Just thoght I'd put this here also. 



Best part of E3 '14.
No contest.


----------



## InfinityCollision

It really was. So much hype when that happened. I flipped out watching it at home. Favorite final smash ever, no question. Props to Nintendo for treating Megaman right.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Capcom could learn a thing or two from this video.


----------



## Alberto7

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Just thoght I'd put this here also.
> 
> 
> 
> Best part of E3 '14.
> No contest.




 I was jumping in happiness and laughter when I saw that. Also LOL @ the commentator. "SUPER FIGHTING ROBOT... MEGAAAMAAANNAKJSFNSKJADG!!" 

This is NOT OFFICIAL (obviously), but whoever made this gif is just mean and playing with my feelings: (he's also very good at it O_O)


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Conan is hilarious! Reviewing the new Smash Bros.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1hkSUGgPC8


----------



## Alberto7

t'was posted on the previous page by HeHasTheJazzHands.  Still damn hilarious.


----------



## Don Vito

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Just thoght I'd put this here also.
> 
> 
> 
> Best part of E3 '14.
> No contest.



You know that gif of Mio Akiyama crying that I posted in the Zelda thread? Should have saved it for this.(only watched the ending of the invitational) I mean holy ...., they had all da Megamanz besides the chibi version from Powered Up. This is what my dreams are made of.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Somebody got footage from the crowd during that fight:


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

InfinityCollision said:


> Somebody got footage from the crowd during that fight:




I originally meant to post that one, but lost the link. 

But yeah, Capcom better be paying attention.


----------



## Alberto7

Wow, that video sent some serious chills down my spine haha all aboard the Nintendo hype train, chooo chooooo!


----------



## InfinityCollision

Anyone else here check out the demo today or Wednesday at Smash Fest?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

3 reveals today. 

Captain Falcon is officially coming back





Lucia









And in a surprising twist, the other Fire Emblem character is Robin









EDIT: Lucia is possibly an alt costume for Marth. Not sure.


----------



## bouVIP

Lucina is Chrom's daughter in Fire Emblem Awakening. Robin is your own custom character in FE which is kind of a weird addition, but super pumped for this! I love Fire Emblem haha and now I'm definitely getting a Wii U for this.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Captain Falcon has never looked more manly.

Lucina is a separate character. Think of it like Fox/Falco or Falcon/Ganondorf in SSBM - similar kit (so far as we know - we saw her use 5 moves, all matched Marth's moveset), different execution. I'm betting on her playing more like Melee era Marth, whereas Marth himself is heavier, slower, and likely more focused on his ground game (continuing the direction he went in with Brawl). One thing I'm curious/potentially concerned about is that she doesn't seem to have a tipper sweetspot. If she has a hilt sweetspot that's _potentially_ okay (works pretty well for Roy's Project M incarnation), but there's also the possibility that she doesn't have a sweetspot. I'd be a bit disappointed if that's the case given the opportunities a sweetspot can afford.

Robin is an interesting choice that might sate my secret desire for more mage-y characters, but I'm not sure how that durability mechanic is going to work out in practice. Reminds me a little too much of Pokemon Trainer's stamina mechanic.

EDIT: Looks like Lucina doesn't have a sweetspot.


----------



## HUGH JAYNUS

Cant wait for this! Just got my WiiU and love it! Playing zelda windwaker hd


----------



## StevenC

And Meta Knight is returning!


----------



## Murdstone

If anyone has the netplay version of dolphin (4.0.652) and wants to play some melee sometime, hit a murdstone up.


----------



## Sofos

New Samus outfit:


----------



## Alberto7

Orange Samus in that first picture reminds me of Betty Spaghetti. Her upper body is contorted in a really strange way. 

Also, I wish Samus were a real person. Holy dicks.


----------



## asher

That feels really fanservice-y to me.

Ah well.

I'm actually a lot more excited for this now having watched Melee/Project M tournament play last weekend at a local con (apparently we had the best Project M player in the country/world here?).


----------



## InfinityCollision

It's a nice throwback to Fusion and Zero Mission but yeah, there's a fair few people up in arms about it 

Who was it at the con/what character were they playing? There was a Melee/PM national in Texas this past weekend, but it was mostly southwest/west coast players with a few midwesterners.


----------



## asher

Zero playing (black) Pit. A guy going by Redd (with a team shirt) took second in PM playing Pit and alting.. someone else, I don't remember who.


----------



## Alberto7

So, three music clips and the music composers (plus a couple of their respective works) have been released for SMSB 3DS. Some pretty big names here! 

Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U - Music

I wonder if they'll add any more names to the Wii U version.


----------



## InfinityCollision

asher said:


> Zero playing (black) Pit. A guy going by Redd (with a team shirt) took second in PM playing Pit and alting.. someone else, I don't remember who.



I've seen a couple vids of Zero's Pit, that shit is scary as hell. Interesting that it went 1-2 Pit, doesn't seem like there's that many high level Pits out there right now. I suppose two of the top players around being Pit mains does wonders for exposure... Armada's Pit was pretty dominant for a while and he doesn't even really play PM.

Don't know if it'll happen, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if a couple more names showed up on the Wii U version. I'm sure we'll see at least a few new songs for the different stages and such.


----------



## InfinityCollision

So... These just surfaced.


----------



## Don Vito

Don Vito said:


> Thank .... they didn't use deviantart pac man.


I know this is old news, but I thought this was funny.


----------



## Alberto7

InfinityCollision said:


> So... These just surfaced.



And these: LEAKS - Imgur

Whoever took those really likes dem bootys.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Everybody loves Tharja booty. Her personality on the other hand is more polarizing.

Guess that album also confirms Dark Pit... SSB4: Attack of the Clones? Last I heard Doctor Mario seems to be returning too. Wario of course, but he's not a clone.


----------



## StevenC

Nintendo announced a "New 3DS" today which is more powerful and has a second thumbstick. I'm betting we'll need it to use Ice Climbers, and the thumbstick is a bonus for late adopters.

If this is the thanks I get for buying a console earlier in its lifecycle and supporting my favourite company, I might have to reevaluate things.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Ok, so now I have even more incentive to play this game...



...well, actually, more incentive to play this game at my sister's house during parties.  I'll wait to buy a WiiU until Xenoblade 2's release. 




Alberto7 said:


> So, three music clips and the music composers (plus a couple of their respective works) have been released for SMSB 3DS. Some pretty big names here!
> 
> Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS and Wii U - Music
> 
> I wonder if they'll add any more names to the Wii U version.



Brawl had over 36 high profile composers so I'm not surprised that this will be grand. However, I lit up when I read the names Masashi Hamauzu and ACE.


----------



## StevenC

I was just about to post that video, too.

Interestingly, it looks like Link is using a different shield in that clip.

EDIT: Also, Club Nintendo are giving away soundtrack CDs for Smash Bros if you register the games: http://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2014...-soundtrack-CD-via-Club-Nintendo--913822.html


----------



## Alberto7

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Ok, so now I have even more incentive to play this game...




The real question is, why does Shulk appear half naked for like a second at 1:44?!  Oh, Nintendo, u bitchiz b craycray! "Zero Suit Shulk" is how I've read him being described.



Bloody_Inferno said:


> Brawl had over 36 high profile composers so I'm not surprised that this will be grand. However, I lit up when I read the names Masashi Hamauzu and ACE.



Yeah, I really liked Brawl, but back then I didn't care enough to learn who composed the music. My mind is blown these days though.


----------



## InfinityCollision

StevenC said:


> Nintendo announced a "New 3DS" today which is more powerful and has a second thumbstick. I'm betting we'll need it to use Ice Climbers, and the thumbstick is a bonus for late adopters.


I _just_ got a 3DS (XL), so I'm mildly annoyed by this. Not surprised because that's pretty much my luck with the post-DS upgrade cycle (wore out the shoulder buttons on my first DS mere weeks before the 3DS was announced), but oh well. Maybe I can flip the XL later for some cash towards the LL.

The extra buttons probably wouldn't be necessary to play ICs, but a c-stick and more buttons is always welcome. Though there's a rumor going around that the ICs have been cut...



Alberto7 said:


> The real question is, why does Shulk appear half naked for like a second at 1:44?!  Oh, Nintendo, u bitchiz b craycray! "Zero Suit Shulk" is how I've read him being described.


It's his swimsuit/no armor costume from Xenoblade. All the guys wear trunks and the women wear bikinis or in one case, a one-piece.


----------



## StevenC

InfinityCollision said:


> I _just_ got a 3DS (XL), so I'm mildly annoyed by this. Not surprised because that's pretty much my luck with the post-DS upgrade cycle (wore out the shoulder buttons on my first DS mere weeks before the 3DS was announced), but oh well. Maybe I can flip the XL later for some cash towards the LL.
> 
> The extra buttons probably wouldn't be necessary to play ICs, but a c-stick and more buttons is always welcome. Though there's a rumor going around that the ICs have been cut...



I'm worried about this being necessary for the Ice Climbers because Sakurai said they were having trouble getting the 3DS to 2 characters work at once. So a more powerful 3DS could lead to IC being possible.

Also, the LL is what the XL is called in Japan, the official name for the new hardware is "New 3DS (XL)".

Also, this solves the obvious issue of the 3DS having a pretty different control scheme to the classic GC controls, what with not having a Z-button or C-stick.


----------



## Alberto7

Apparently the New 3DS (both normal and XL versions) will have its 3D effect visible from almost any angle, which is honestly a huge improvement. I was never that big a fan of the 3D effect on the 3DS (although it's VERY neat that you don't need 3D glasses to see it), but a big reason for that is that you could only look at it head on. I'll probably like it a lot better on this new version, and actually use it more (assuming I get one, of course).

Also, better battery life. That's a biggie, too, even though the battery life is already pretty good on the regular 3DS XL.


----------



## Alberto7

dat Fierce Deity alt-color for Link 







I really hope it's not some kind of grand master photoshop...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Hoping the same. I'm starting to believe blurry, tilted photographs are a sign of a fake, though.


----------



## StevenC

Looks real to me! Majora's Mask was my favourite Zelda, so this is great.

I guess Alph will have the Pikmin three lineup instead of Purple and White.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Fierce Diety costume is legit. There's a 3DS demo available to play right now in Japan and we've gotten some info out of it over the past couple of days. Some of the cast isn't available and custom moves, equipment, etc aren't available, but there's been a lot of good info surfacing.

I doubt Alph has any gameplay changes, he shares a slot with Olimar (4 costumes for Olimar, 4 for Alph). The announcer does say "Pikmin and Olimar/Alph" as appropriate though. Haven't really kept up with Olimar beyond that, never liked playing him much.


----------



## BlackMastodon

InfinityCollision said:


> Fierce Diety costume is legit.


----------



## Alberto7

^ Exactly.


----------



## TheHandOfStone

AYO this is kind of a big deal. I think you watch it here.


----------



## InfinityCollision

3DS demo featuring Mario, Link, Pikachu, Megaman, and Villager went live on the Japanese Eshop a few hours ago. Rumor is the demo might be released internationally on the 19th.


----------



## TheHandOfStone




----------



## InfinityCollision

Yup. Thankfully he's the only character that can do that so far.

As more global things go, I've heard it's _really_ easy to punish hits on shield if they don't shield break. Apparently you can also tech meteor smashes if you get hit while already standing on the ground, leading to free guaranteed punishes when the hit should've popped you up for a combo.


----------



## TheHandOfStone

"Unsafe on hit" is rarely a good design decision.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Exactly, and the ability to tech grounded hits like that doesn't really make sense regardless  A move partly intended to initiate or continue combos definitely shouldn't be setting the opponent up to punish a hit confirm.

The shield stuff is just as bad. It's not a frame trap or anything of the sort, it's "I can land almost anything out of shield stun before you're even out of endlag/landing lag." Or in Megaman's case, an upb out of pretty much any hit  I get that shields are super weak in Sm4sh (word is 2x dtilts from Sonic is enough to shield break), but if you don't get that break then you're screwed. If you do go for a break... Rolls seem pretty fast now and anything that could break a shield in one hit is pretty laggy. You could still get punished on a read.

Kind of curious how far this extends. It's not out of the question that otherwise viable strings might be unsafe on hit against targets with very fast jabs/nairs given that characters look to be exiting hitstun between hits.

Side note, the Gust Bellows item seems to be OP as hell  Huge range, strong knockback, good duration. It's like a FLUDD on crack, ie actually good instead of "why does this even exist".

EDIT: It's begun. JP street date officially broken.


----------



## BlackMastodon

I have so little of a clue as to half the stuff you just said and it makes mefeel sad and out of touch. I understood easier to break shields but not much else. Dumb it down for a filthy casual like myself?


----------



## InfinityCollision

-You know how you can't act for a bit after you get hit? The same is true while in shield and is referred to as shield stun. 64 and Melee had a decent amount of shield stun (hitstun in general is high in 64, which is a factor in the prevalence of "true" combos), Brawl had a bit less. How safe your attacks are on shield is a factor in how aggressively you can play. In Sm4sh, shield stun appears to be so low that you can consistently punish attacks on your shield with a grab or possibly other attacks as long as your shield doesn't break. Attacks that are powerful enough to shield break in one hit tend to be slow enough that you could just roll away and punish anyway.

-If you've ever seen someone get hit into the ground/a platform/a wall and immediately bounce or roll into an upright position, that's called teching a hit. In the other games, if you're on the ground and get hit downwards you get bounced up into the air. That's still true in Sm4sh, but it's now possible to immediately tech that hit. So if you got hit by say, Captain Falcon's down-aerial stomp... yeah it's gonna hurt a bit, but you can tech it and punish him before he's able to act again.

-I mentioned that there's been a rarity of true combos ever since 64. Generally "combos" (more accurately strings) in the other games are based on positional advantage (I can keep hitting you, you can't hit me back) or are just fast enough that your opponent is out of hitstun but can't get a counterattack/defensive option out before you hit them (frame trap). Hitstun on moves that would allow you to combo (weaker attacks like tilts and multihit attacks) seems low enough that an opponent can likely at least attempt a countermeasure at most points in any strings I've seen thus far. Megaman's upb puts Roll out on what's likely the very first frame, hence the video above.

There are other things that I see as at least potentially good (new ledge and throw mechanics both seem promising for the game as a whole even if they potentially hurt certain characters), but those particular things concern me a little. The teching thing at least smells unintentional, but I'm not sure about the others.

At this point it looks like we've seen the final roster...


Spoiler



If you've seen the ESRB leak, that's everyone.



Vets that aren't returning:


Spoiler



Ice Climbers, Lucas, Wolf, Snake, Mewtwo, Roy, Pichu, Squirtle/Ivysaur



Newcomers:


Spoiler



Rosalina & Luma, Bowser Jr., Palutena, Robin, Little Mac, Greninja, Duck Hunt Dog, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Dark Pit, Lucina, Shulk, Pac-man, Megaman



I'm a little miffed about the cuts (mainly the first 5 I mentioned), as they include several characters that I or my friends play quite a bit. Maybe there will be DLC later, who knows.


----------



## TheHandOfStone

I'm actually glad the ICs are gone, even with the changes to throws. Getting chainthrown to death sucks and I don't want the risk of it happening again.


----------



## asher

Balls, they've dropped two of my mains. Ah well.

I hope they address some of those issues though...


----------



## StevenC

Demo confirmed for 19th September.

Platinum Club Nintendo users get an email today with 4 codes.

I don't know if any of you are Platinum users, but if you are and don't need all 4 codes, let me know!

http://www.twitch.tv/Nintendo Live event on at the moment


----------



## piggins411

Pretty excited about several of the newcomers actually, although one of them makes me scratch my head quite a bit:



Spoiler



Dark Pit



Really?


----------



## InfinityCollision

TheHandOfStone said:


> I'm actually glad the ICs are gone, even with the changes to throws. Getting chainthrown to death sucks and I don't want the risk of it happening again.



One of my buddies is a longtime ICs main, so he's not real happy right now. I've never minded them personally - the Brawl chaingrab was one of a million infinites (F*CKING DEDEDE AUGH), not that we ever played much Brawl. Wobbling, yeah, but it's potentially escapable if you react fast enough and you kind of get a feel for when they're trying to set it up after a while since it requires a completely different approach from the usual IC shenanigans. Much less significant for their game as a whole. Now Sheik's grab game... but that's my bias as a Marth main talking 

Plus I have a ton of respect for the guys who can play ICs like this. It's almost like controlling two independent characters at that point, really cool to watch.

Personally I'm most bummed about


Spoiler



Wolf


 being gone, he was probably my 2nd most played character in Brawl and I play him a lot in PM too. The Marth changes aren't too encouraging either, so I'll probably have to spend some time finding a new main.



piggins411 said:


> Pretty excited about several of the newcomers actually, although one of them makes me scratch my head quite a bit:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Dark Pit
> 
> 
> 
> Really?



I'm REALLY disappointed with his implementation thus far. Withholding judgement til we know what all his custom specials are, but right now he looks veeeeeeeeery clone-y and that seems like a waste considering the variety of options they had in the source material.

EDIT: Ditto for the codes, would be much appreciated.


----------



## InfinityCollision

So the game's been out for a bit in Japan, a few people stateside have imported copies, and the demo's out for everyone on Friday, but somebody passed me a demo code earlier today. If anybody wants my hands-on impressions I'm open to answer whatever, just remember I only have access to Mario, Link, Pikachu, Megaman, and Villager in the demo


----------



## StevenC

Got the demo this morning. So far so good, though I don't really like Megman's play style. I've been using Link and Mario mostly and Villager is cool, too. Feels a lot better than I expected without the C-Stick.


----------



## Augmatted

Just got the demo today, and I have to say this game will DEFINATELY be more competitively viable than brawl. Although it has its quirks, and is not as fast paced or technical as melee, this game is fun as hell and there is no tripping, excessive hitsun cancel, and the ledge mechanics are veeeery refreshing. The only thing I am kind of bummed about is that there is the brawl airdoge, but regardless I cannot wait to get my hands on the full game, so far it feels amazing!


----------



## TheHandOfStone

I'm a little worried. Shield stun is supposedly even _lower_ than in Brawl, and dodges are still really good. I've still yet to play the demo though so I'll shut up now.

(P.S. Brawl was actually still competitive, so this will be too. I just hope it isn't boring. )


----------



## InfinityCollision

Mildly technical post ahead.

At face value, I think it's more competitive. Obvious bullsh*t like random tripping is gone, movement is generally sped up and offers slightly more offensive options now, airdodging is less free now (causes landing lag), etc. Removal of infinites is a nice QoL upgrade for a game that promotes interaction between players even during combos, though the manner of execution (at least in regards to grabs) is perhaps questionable. At the very least, this makes it more fun to watch. Player interaction is more clear/less abstract and the action is a bit faster. Character balance will remain an unknown variable for a while yet, and there's always the possibility of new mechanics being found. I'm hesitant to say too much regarding shield stun differences from Brawl because I almost never play Brawl but I don't think it's unmanageable, particularly with how weak shields are in this game. Rolls are indeed fairly powerful though. Not unpunishable, but stronger than in the past for sure.

However.

Survivability is at an all-time high. Recoveries as a whole got a significant boost even before delving into custom movesets. Blast zones are _significantly_ further out, making it harder to earn an outright kill. Combo potential is fairly low... especially now that we've found a new mechanic that replaces the old "directional influence" mechanic. The same mechanic boosts survivability even further. There's also a new "rage" mechanic that slightly scales knockback dealt to your opponents based on your own damage level (caps at 150%), which will further mitigate combos (though kills are easier when you're at high %) and promote conservative play to save high percent stocks. Basically we live for a _long_ time now if you don't get kills offstage, and followups are a bit of a grey area because your attacks will literally never inflict the same knockback twice in a single match. These things all slow the pace of the game down and turn it into a bit of a pokefest. That's not strictly anticompetitive, but it is less exciting to watch and a scene only grows so large without a thriving population of spectators.

But hey, I play Marth. I benefit (relative to other characters) from pretty much every change I've mentioned. Yay? 

I think it'll be fine overall. It's no Melee/PM when it comes to competitive play, but it's still fun and there will still be a competitive scene for it.

Also, fun/weird fact of the day: some attacks have decimal values in their damage dealt now, even when fresh. Lucina has an attack that deals 9.99% damage. 

Side note, but I really wish there was more variety in the demo roster. The closest I get to liking any of them is Link. Megaman is pretty cool from a design standpoint though, they did a great job of evoking his classic games through his attacks and playstyle.


----------



## 12enoB

I've been playing the demo... and despite them making you play with horrible controls, I am enjoying it. 

I'm liking megaman's aerial attacks a lot. His fair is really quick. I also really like Link's dash attack, that thing does quite a bit of knockback now. 

Can't wait until I get the full game, as it looks like my main, lucario, now releases his smash moves faster!

Also whats up with the new ledge changes? I haven't been able to tell when playing, but from watching streams it looks like when someone is on the ledge, another character can steal the ledge if the invincibility frames are gone. Not sure if that's just been coincidental every time I've seen it, but I don't know if I like that... the ledge games were my favorite part of smash.


----------



## Alberto7

I'm not much a "techie" when it comes to SSB, but, after playing the demo for a little while, I can tell the changes they made on the characters are quite significant. Like 12enoB said, Link's dash attack is a lot stronger this time around, and he feels more maneuverable, in a way. I also noticed that they upgraded Pikachu quite a bit. Still not as OP as his N64 version, but he's a lot faster, his attacks are quicker and have a bit more of a knockback, and responds very nicely to the controls. He reminds me of Brawl's Pichu's speed, but with Pikachu's attacks and bulk.

And apparently it's not only me who noticed that Mario is very OP as well. His fair while the opponent is offstage practically guarantees a KO. And then there's this:
https://vine.co/v/O72Pn5bhaQH

No surprise Villager has earned the nickname Killager either, as I hear. His down and front specials pack a massive punch.


----------



## InfinityCollision

12enoB said:


> Also whats up with the new ledge changes? I haven't been able to tell when playing, but from watching streams it looks like when someone is on the ledge, another character can steal the ledge if the invincibility frames are gone. Not sure if that's just been coincidental every time I've seen it, but I don't know if I like that... the ledge games were my favorite part of smash.


Yeah, that's a thing now. If you want gimps, you have to go offstage for them.



Alberto7 said:


> https://vine.co/v/O72Pn5bhaQH


LOL

Poor Robin, I don't think they were expecting that. The hitbox on Thoron must be huge  On a related note, you can cape quite a few of Villager's attacks. The bowling ball on his forward smash, for example.

Mario might be my best demo character. Crappy recovery though. Granted everyone in the demo has some sort of projectile to cape... and cape gimps are still a thing after all. Maybe Link, but I feel like Link is kind of mediocre. He'll do great in FFAs but not so much 1v1. I love Megaman's design but I haven't had much luck playing as him. Haven't really played the demo much the past few days anyway, all the characters I'm itching to play are locked 

On another note, I'm disappointed that custom specials aren't allowed in For Fun/For Glory matches, only with friends. Some characters seem to have great default loadouts, while others clearly have their best options in custom moves. I'm curious why they limited the online mode like that.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Game's up for download on the Eshop right now, though I hear the Eshop isn't handling the load well  I'll be picking up my preorder tomorrow, stupid Best Buy didn't do a midnight release despite the sh_i_tload of preorders they must have gotten from Smashfest alone


----------



## Murdstone

Whoever wants a match sometime can feel free to add me. My FC is 1564-2811-7074.


----------



## SnowfaLL

I'll say Im quite excited for it, but am I the only one not buying the 3ds version?? I just dont dig the controls without a real controller for smash. I'll gladly wait 2-3 months until the wii U version comes.

Hoping smash 4 will end my damn Dota addiction.. I need something to =[


----------



## Alberto7

^ Not the only one; not at all. I've been playing the demo, and, while I like it, it just feels really awkward playing it without a proper controller. Besides, holding a 3DS for too long makes my wrists ache (has happened with all previous 3DS games I've spent more than an hour playing). I might convince my sister to buy it using her money, but I'm not getting it. I'm getting it for the Wii U for sure, though.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

The lack of grip from the stick has been pissing me off. Perhaps it's just me, but my hands tend to get a little sweaty after a little while. I have a hard time being as precise as I want to be with the stick. I've been enjoying the game well enough, but would prefer to use the d-pad. I'm hoping that they patch it in or something.


----------



## Choop

Chokey Chicken said:


> The lack of grip from the stick has been pissing me off. Perhaps it's just me, but my hands tend to get a little sweaty after a little while. I have a hard time being as precise as I want to be with the stick. I've been enjoying the game well enough, but would prefer to use the d-pad. I'm hoping that they patch it in or something.



You're totally not alone. I hate the smooth stick too. If I start using my 3ds a lot more soon, I'll be looking into maybe sticking a grippy pad of some kind on top to help with that. How hard would it have been to mold some grooves into that thing? :\


----------



## TheHandOfStone

My wrists have been fine so far.

But my right thumb...


----------



## Choop

TBH next time I'm out, I'm just going to get some adhesive grip tape and try putting some on the joystick/nub to see how well that works. All my friends have this game so I officially need it now.


----------



## SnowfaLL

NickCormier said:


> I'll say Im quite excited for it, but am I the only one not buying the 3ds version?? I just dont dig the controls without a real controller for smash. I'll gladly wait 2-3 months until the wii U version comes.
> 
> Hoping smash 4 will end my damn Dota addiction.. I need something to =[



I lied.. I think im gonna get it, cause eh its only $50 and why not. I can always sell it for half or more when the wii u version comes. Unfortunately though I didnt preorder, I went to 3 stores today and none had it in stock. Maybe tomorrow or next week I guess =[


----------



## TheHandOfStone




----------



## asher

Hard to see - so green Pikachu is feeding lightning to G&W to fill his bucket for instakills?


----------



## TheHandOfStone

Precisely. It only takes one Thunder.


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## Murdstone

Pocketing a villager's bowling ball will give you a OHKO too.


----------



## TheHandOfStone

I know, and that's also kind of scary. However, the hitbox on the bowling ball is not nearly as ridiculous as Oil Panic's.


----------



## asher

That's... a little absurd. At least.


----------



## StevenC

Smash Bros for Wii U released on 5th December!


----------



## BlackMastodon

TheHandOfStone said:


> Precisely. It only takes one Thunder.


Wow, that's some bullshit right there.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Decided to pick it up on my way back from the dentist, but ............ my 3DS isn't charged up enough to download the update. 

EDIT: Playing it now. Oh my lord, thank god Link doesn't suck as much as he used to.


----------



## InfinityCollision

If anyone wants to go a few rounds at some point, my FC is 1349-7020-9122. I'm trying to avoid For Glory mode for 1v1s, FD only and no custom moves is bleh 


TheHandOfStone said:


>


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Finally tried Smash Run. 
Good god almighty, I was not prepared for how hard that could be.


----------



## Murdstone

Someone grab a bunch of alcohol and come fight me, I'm way ahead of you.


----------



## SnowfaLL

I'm really enjoying this game. I didn't think it'd work well for 3ds but its actually awesome. I can't wait for the Wii U version! Unfortunately I'll be on a course away from home so I cant get it until XMas. 

I think this may actually get me out of my dota habbit, and try competing at smash tournaments.


----------



## StevenC

The big rumour is that there will be 8-player on the Wii U, based on some hidden sound file in the 3DS version.


----------



## InfinityCollision

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Finally tried Smash Run.
> Good god almighty, I was not prepared for how hard that could be.



Not fighting things is actually a really strong strategy there. I just load up on speed equipment and run around looking for chests/doors/relatively easy monsters with decent boosts/drops. Still end up with pretty good stats and have relatively low risk of death.

So this is a thing:



Guess I'm never going Sheik against a Rosaluma player  Also works on Captain Falcon.


----------



## Sofos

InfinityCollision said:


> Not fighting things is actually a really strong strategy there. I just load up on speed equipment and run around looking for chests/doors/relatively easy monsters with decent boosts/drops. Still end up with pretty good stats and have relatively low risk of death.
> 
> So this is a thing:
> 
> 
> 
> Guess I'm never going Sheik against a Rosaluma player  Also works on Captain Falcon.




I didn't play Brawl, but playing 3DS, I noticed they major nerfed Sheik. The chain was amazing, I miss it  Plus they got rid of the superfast punches.


----------



## TheHandOfStone

Sheik was buffed from Brawl and is actually pretty good (she was already decent there).

Unfortunately, it looks like she's going to have at least one unwinnable MU (like in Brawl...)


----------



## Mr Violence

0920 2166 0906

Let's do it. I'm loving Little Mac's ground game. Recovery is shite, but otherwise, he's a monster.


----------



## BlackMastodon

I wonder if they're gonna patch stupid exploits like that ever? I can only hope. I really didn't like playing against Rosaluma, though, damn that little starry bastard. I find Sheik to still be a beast even without the whip, the grenade is still a pretty good wildcard to throw out.


----------



## InfinityCollision

I dunno if something like that would be patched. Now the ZSS infinite on Robin, I could see that getting patched if they ever felt inclined to patch gameplay. That's clearly a case of something not working as intended since her footstool doesn't work properly on him (leading to the infinite).

Also Sheik is really good, potentially top 5 even with this against her. Lots of solid tools, one of the better offstage games, some actual combos, a chaingrab of sorts, etc. This potentially makes the Rosaluma matchup a hard counter against her though. The only saving grace is that it's semi-easy for Sheik to shut down Luma, and even then it's going to be an uphill battle.

Took some time to adjust but I'm starting to get the hang of Marth in SSB4. Custom specials make him a beast.


----------



## Choop

I guess that's just incentive for Sheik players to pick up an alt in case they are ever counter-picked. With any kind of matchup coverage Sheik players would be hella scary.


----------



## Alberto7

How has this not been updated the second the Nintendo Direct finished?!



I didn't know this game could be any more hyped! 

Amongst the highlights, Mewtwo confirmed for this Spring (2015) as a free DLC for people who have bought both versions of the game (let's hope they let us buy it anyway without having to buy both games), and Bowser Jr. along with all the Koopa Kids confirmed (again) via a character-introduction trailer (the latter I believe are just costumes of Bowser Jr.?).

This game is reason enough to buy a Wii U.


----------



## Sofos

^I just want Isaac from Golden Sun :/


----------



## 12enoB

I don't enjoy this one as much unfortunately. Seems like it's way too easy to recover, no ledge guarding, buffed recovery moves... it's just too easy to get back on the ledge. Getting someone off screen is really difficult with a lot of characters, and I've found that most characters only have 1 or 2 real kill moves at around 100 damage. 

I also don't like that you know you're dead if you see the lightning come out. 

I was expecting to buy a wii u just for the game... but now I don't know. I'll try it and see if it feels better on the wii u, but I'm pretty disappointed as it stands with the 3ds version.


----------



## TheHandOfStone

Well if you want recovery to be challenging, I guess you can play the Little Mac mirror. 

In all seriousness though, this game is pretty similar to Brawl. I liked Brawl except for the things which were objectively wrong with it (tripping, easy ledgestalling, etc.) so I like the new game as well. If you don't like defensive games, you probably won't like this one. But that's okay, because Melee and P:M exist if offense is more to your liking.


----------



## InfinityCollision

It's not my favorite, but I didn't mind Brawl. It had some genuinely dumb elements and the game's balance was hilariously bad, but aside from that it was okay. Just more of a slow/defensive game as you mentioned. Good if you like that sort of thing. This time around... dunno yet. I'll make that call once I have the Wii U version I guess. It doesn't help that my longtime main feels like ass this time around.

Project M is good shit though. v3.5 is gonna be hype 

Also edgeguarding is still a thing, you just can't do it from right on the ledge now.


----------



## Alberto7

Putting the gameplay and tech-talk aside, this is unfairly amazing:



I'm almost more excited about this game's soundtrack than about the game itself.  (In fact, I might actually be... )


----------



## asher

Spent like all day yesterday playing it on Wii U 

:feelsgoodman:

I'm a big fan. And they did a damn good job making most of the characters feel pretty unique, save Mario/Dr. Mario and Marth/Lucinda. Lots of cool new styles. Pac Man is surprisingly fun, but I think we will see Shulk and Robin be very very strong. Probably Little Mac too. Fast and hits like a truck, and his up-B does a lot of vertical launch if you juggle someone with it. I have an impression a good Palutena could be really scary but I'm not sure if she has the range to play along what feels like really good spacing options.

Some nice tunings yo the existing line up too: Yoshi feels fast enough to be fun now, Fox and Falco feel less derpy somehow than in Brawl,and not only does Link get Fierce Deity colors, but he no longer feels like he's got Iron Boots on 24/7, the running A being changed to his forward leap feels great too, and the boomerang is faster to both come out and fly.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Oh my god, link's forward leap is AWESOME. I mean, it's easy as hell to dodge, but when it connects, it's very satisfying.


----------



## asher

Yup. TONS of launch on it.

I'm really liking how Zero Suit Samus feels now, too. Quick and mixupy with good air game and actually enough punch to make it work.


----------



## asher

Played some 2v2 online with my roommate last night. The net code is pretty good, really. Only small bits of lag in about an hour and a half.

Also, tag team trolling is great. We won with:

double Ganondorf
forced Sudden Death vs. a serious team with double Jigglypuff, but I don't remember who won
forced Sudden Death with double pink Wario, in which I ran over everyone with a motorcycle
won with Bowser & DK against a real team
won with Amarioca (Stars & Stripes Mario) & Luigi against a serious team. I wound up with five kills, at least 2 of which were caping Little Mac off the edge 
won vs. a serious team with grayscale Kirby & Dedede
got pwnzored as double ninja headband Pikachu. Charizard hits like a truck.
and double Little Mac is really obnoxious to play against.

Good times


----------



## InfinityCollision

asher said:


> I have an impression a good Palutena could be really scary but I'm not sure if she has the range to play along what feels like really good spacing options.


She has a really strong grab game, jab1 -> grab is a thing, all her aerials are good, and her tilts (aside from ftilt) are actually decent post update, but what really sold me on Palutena was her custom specials. Lightweight and especially Super Speed are crazy good/fun, and all her up-b options have uses (I prefer Jump Glide). Neutral-b options are less useful overall but Explosive Flame has a neat little property in that the last hit is unblockable.

I'll probably main her and ZSS this time around. Having a lot of fun with those two and I really don't like what they did to Marth this time around. He's kinda clunky  Lucina's even worse, no reason for me to play her aside from liking the character... Might pick up Ike, Robin, or Shulk alongside ZSS and Palutena, we'll see.


----------



## asher

Hm. I haven't messed with the custom moves at allll - I'm not even sure how they work  can you take them online? I wonder if they'll be tourney-kosher...

Also I basically never grab, ever. I really need to work on it, and connecting with aerials reliably, because she does have really strong aerials.

Yeah, Marth feels more neutered, and Lucinda is just a cooler looking Marth. Robin and Shulk are very cool. Ike is just buffer looking, but I either need to seriously tighten up my play or he's just going to be too slow for me now.


----------



## BlackMastodon

My buddy showed me that grabs counter Little Mac very well, since he doesn't get knocked back from attacks (he can keep attacking you through hits which is why I find him so f**king annoying). So grab game is pretty huge in this one.

As far as mains go for me it's ZSS, Sheik, Ike, Robin, Lucario in order of who I use most. Ike is really slow but if you can grab them or use his side B to dash and start some combos, he hits like a monster. I've won a few games against lighter opponents but you gotta take a beating before you launch them off the stage with a side smash.

Also I really want a WiiU now but I can't find any of the Sm4sh bundles that come with the adaptor and controller.


----------



## asher

Yeah, that's how I try to play Ike - and a lotttt of normals, plus all his air moves hit like trucks too - but I'm having trouble using him right.

To me, Sheik feels a lot like ZSS, but with no damage at all, which was kind of disappointing.


----------



## InfinityCollision

asher said:


> Hm. I haven't messed with the custom moves at allll - I'm not even sure how they work  can you take them online? I wonder if they'll be tourney-kosher...


Not in FF/FG, but you can in friendly matches. Tourneys are split on them right now, but they'll probably be generally legal later. Main barrier right now is having everything unlocked, that'll be much less of an issue a few months from now. If customs are banned I just stick to ZSS.



> Also I basically never grab, ever. I really need to work on it, and connecting with aerials reliably, because she does have really strong aerials.


Grabs in general are a very strong option for a lot of characters. ZSS gets a lot of mileage out of her grab as well, though it's riskier because tether grab.



> Ike is just buffer looking, but I either need to seriously tighten up my play or he's just going to be too slow for me now.


He got a few buffs in 1.0.4 that really solidified his gameplan. He's got great pressure with jab/grab/dtilt/nair/QD, he racks up damage very well, he kills early with usmash/fair/bair/rarely fsmash, and has a pretty strong edgeguard game (Tempest is nuts, it's Hydro Pump gimps all over again). Friend of mine plays Ike, Shulk, and Sonic, he's a nightmare to play against now.



> To me, Sheik feels a lot like ZSS, but with no damage at all, which was kind of disappointing.


The thing about Sheik is that her kit is so complete. She's a rushdown character (ZSS is arguably more about traps) with a really good projectile, which is a ridiculous combination. Reducing her killing power makes her slightly less amazing, but she's still solid and her edgeguard game is as strong as ever.

The adapters are completely sold out everywhere, I've been playing with a Pro controller


----------



## asher

I'm still a Wiimote guy  I never liked the Gamecube controllers all that much. They're only now starting to make my hands crap. We tried to find an adapter though with no luck.

I clearly need to learn more about Smash mechanics. Though I at least know what all those mean and have a general conception of this stuff, some of which is transferring from (meager/casual skill with a couple) true arcade fighters. I definitely want to get better though.


----------



## InfinityCollision

If not for the _awful_ cstick placement, I'd probably be okay with playing on a Pro controller or even a gamepad. That's a dealbreaker for me though. I do like the GCC - the ABYX layout requires very little thumb movement to utilize all four buttons and the c-stick is where it should be. Only complaints with it are the unnecessarily stiff action on full press L/R and the lack of a ZL button.


----------



## StevenC

Cloud from FFVII confirmed...

Who saw that coming?


----------



## Sofos

I'm way too excited. Gonna be amazing.


----------

