# NGD Ibanez SRGEX2... Don't buy one.



## weirdoku (Jun 26, 2015)

Well it's here. Pictures first.




 





 





 





 





 





 





 





 





 





 





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I'm not sure what to say really. I'm definitely a bit disappointed. First thing I noticed is how 'unfinished' this guitar feels. Looks like the body and headstock feels like it has just been stained and left bare. It's like a canvas with a neck attached.

It's light, about 2.5Kg. This made me wonder where is the mahogony? It's a 3 piece nato/mahogony body I think, from looking at the grain I guess the middle piece (which isn't even in the middle) is the mahogony piece but I can't confirm this. The weight isn't that much of a concern, it just feels cheap. It now makes my previous lightest Ibanez feel heavy.

Not sure about this one piece neck either. It doesn't feel right, it feels cheap and weak. Not even my RGR321EX feels like that, maybe because that has s 3 piece wizard neck. I don't know.

Fret work is just TOTAL BOLLOCKS. I can't even believe how bad this guitar is finished, I can't believe it even left the factory. If I was Q&C Manager at that Indonesia factory this guitar came out of I'd walk around firing people on the spot if I saw this .... happening. Okay, I wasn't expecting the fret work to be great but this takes the piss. I was expecting a few sharp ends, couple of high spots, the usual stuff in a budget Ibanez but nope. You can clearly see the fret ends are so badly done. The moron who did this actually filed into the fretboard! That's not something I can fix myself either.

There's more! There are some light gouges on the body and headstock, dents on the headstock, file marks on the fretboard end, unevenly mounted tuners, pickups not mounted centrally, (((( shaped scratches on the body.

If you're asking if I recommend buying this I would say stay the f**k away from it unless you want to put the time in yourself or spend extra finishing the guitar to what it should have been or you live in Japan. If you live in Japan then yeah okay you don't pay an extra £160 on top for customs and handling fee and shipping. Now I maaaay have been f**ked over here and they sent me the worst one but I don't have prove of that. But if this is the general quality of the others in Japan, Ibanez should be ashamed.

Now I can put the work in myself to make this nice but I really didn't want to, I was expecting to do just a fret level and few little bits of tidying up but it'll definitely be more than that.

So after all that bad stuff about it what's good? The visible wood grain looks good, all black hardware is ninja, the gibraltar II bridge feels great and SURPRISINGLY the (wonky) pickups actually sound alright under my gain patch on the HD500X.

I've emailed Shimamura telling them all the things wrong with it. Hopefully I can get something sorted out. So bummed.


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## Cloudy (Jun 26, 2015)

Yikes...hopefully everything gets resolved. I would not be happy with that guitar either!


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## Humbuck (Jun 26, 2015)

How much are these things??

I actually want one more now from your review...aside from the fretwork, the lightness and the unfinished nature of the finish is cool with me. Looks like my B6.


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## TedEH (Jun 26, 2015)

First look over the photos- looks pretty cool. Then I read the description and looked a second time. ...not quite as impressed once you take a moment to look closer.


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## weirdoku (Jun 26, 2015)

Humbuck said:


> How much are these things??
> 
> I actually want one more now from your review...aside from the fretwork, the lightness and the unfinished nature of the finish is cool with me. Looks like my B6.



This one is 59,000 yen plus shipping

Trade you the B6 for it


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## Humbuck (Jun 26, 2015)

I'm not sure what you were expecting in a $475 new guitar.


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## weirdoku (Jun 26, 2015)

Humbuck said:


> I'm not sure what you were expecting in a $475 new guitar.



Something at least a bit better put together than this? Or is that acceptable to you? You don't go in a Burger King and pay $10 for a burger but expect it to be crap do you?


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## TedEH (Jun 26, 2015)

I get that 475 is cheap compared to a lot of the boutique stuff that you see on forums like this, but that's not a negligible amount of money to most people, and it doesn't excuse something being in terrible shape. I've bought instruments for less that were in much better condition, and most of the instruments I own are in the $400-$600 range and don't have these problems.


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## Zado (Jun 26, 2015)

At first I was like






Then I noticed


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 26, 2015)

It's made out of Nato Mahogany, not Nato _and_ Mahogany. Nato is a cheap wood with a lot of the properties of mahogany, yet not an actual mahogany. It's the same stuff that's been used by Cort and World for sub-$1k guitars for years. 

As for the finish, it was advertised as being "in the natural" and "oil" so it's likely just a really thin oil coat, not a lacquer that's then made to feel like an oil finish. That's also why it's likely easy to nick and gouge. 

As for the defects, that's par the course for first run, Standard series models, albeit they're rarely this bad. Obviously the store didn't inspect it before just shipping it off.

Not defending Ibanez here, that guitar is a mess, but lets at least get the specs right.



Humbuck said:


> I'm not sure what you were expecting in a $475 new guitar.



That's $475 with it being limited release, which raises the price a bit. 

As I was hinting at in the original thread for these things, folks really need to consider what these are: a money grab by the dealer who ordered them.


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## Konfyouzd (Jun 26, 2015)

TedEH said:


> I get that 475 is cheap compared to a lot of the boutique stuff that you see on forums like this, but that's not a negligible amount of money to most people, and it doesn't excuse something being in terrible shape. I've bought instruments for less that were in much better condition, and most of the instruments I own are in the $400-$600 range and don't have these problems.




I bought 2 Jackson JS32 series guitars and they were finished better than this guy... Chinese made... $250...


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## MoJoToJo (Jun 26, 2015)

Humbuck said:


> I'm not sure what you were expecting in a $475 new guitar.



*I would say a lot more than what he received!!
I have seen Fender Squier's finished better than this guitar.
Keep us in the loop on the outcome of this weirdoku.
*


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## HoneyNut (Jun 26, 2015)

For just $475 we might expect a guitar to have flaws. However, honestly, I bought this Korean S520 a few years ago expecting a few flaws, but there isn't a single thing I can complain about it (besides the cheap pickups, of course). The frets, body finish, everything is just flawless. Plus, it was setup so well action wise. It's comfortably very low without a single buzz in any part of the neck. I can't exactly say if my Prestiges are justifiably better. (Of course, this might be a rare case).

So in my experience I wouldn't jump into conclusions just because a guitar is priced cheap. 

Sad to know about your terrible experience. I hope you have this sorted out!


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## Le Jeff (Jun 26, 2015)

Sorry you ain't happy with the axe, it sure is a looker.


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## DIM3S0UL (Jun 26, 2015)

OH NO ! I really wanted those guitars to be good cause they look awesome.

As already mentioned Nato isn't a good wood especially if they don't put solid lacquer on it. They probably rushed with those guitars and keep passing them through quality control.
A fretboard is not a guitar part which you can spare time Ibanez !

The binding looks pretty OK to me, i hope the guitar isn't unplayable for you. 

Let's hope that the SRGEX1 is better, because of the higher price and different wood.


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## pel (Jun 26, 2015)

return that thing. and please keep us updated. what's the store again ?


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## kevdes93 (Jun 26, 2015)

Really bummed this didn't turn out so good


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## AdenM (Jun 26, 2015)

Let me start by saying that the terrible QC on the guitar is ridiculous, fretwork made me cringe. This is low, even for an Indo Ibanez.

...But it's an Indo Ibanez.


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## Humbuck (Jun 27, 2015)

I'd buy it off you if you were local.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 27, 2015)

bummer...

hopefully they will make it right.


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## source field (Jun 27, 2015)

Humbuck said:


> I'm not sure what you were expecting in a $475 new guitar.



Honestly for $475 brand new I was expecting a good guitar with really minor flaws. 

The Squier Classic Vibe series and the current Yamaha Pacifica series are sold around $300 - $450 new and they are considered as some of the best 'bang-for-your-buck' playing guitars by a lot of folks who own Fender CS, Suhrs, TAs, etc. (Ask Mr. Tom Quayle)

I have a Yamaha Pacifica 212vfm ($300 brand new, solid Alder body) and it's not just a good guitar for the money, it's a good guitar period. I really enjoy playing it as much as my American Fender Strat and my EBMM Luke III. The fit, fretwork and finish are flawless, even the stock pickups sounds fine. The only single flaw I found is that it's not a metal guitar


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## weirdoku (Jun 27, 2015)

I've emailed Shimamura with photos of everything that's wrong with it. The imperfections on the body I can forgive but the damaged headstock (no damage on box so must be from factory), frets and badly mounted pickups are unforgivable even if this is a cheap (to some of you anyway) guitar.

I hope they will be able to sort something out. It's so bad I don't even want to sell it. Plus I'll never get the amount I've paid for it.


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## Fathand (Jun 27, 2015)

Ouch, that's some sketchy QC right there. Are the fret ends just finished badly, or are the entire frets pressed into the wood with too much pressure? Looks like the latter in some pictures. :/


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## weirdoku (Jun 27, 2015)

It certainly looks like the ends are pressed too far down but I think its the way they filed the ends. I'll have another proper look over it tonight.


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## max3000 (Jun 27, 2015)

We live in the days of social media which is very important to big companies like Ibanez. Tweet this at them, facebook at them, or whatever is big now. They'll take notice.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jun 27, 2015)

I understand it's not always an option, and I'm obviously not blaming you, but this is why it's good to play things before buying. I'm willing to bet if you had the option of trying it out first you wouldn't have bought it.

I actually don't think it looks terrible. Sloppy over tooled fretboards seem to be fairly common in budget guitars, as are a lot of the cosmetic flaws highlighted. Looks and playability are different though, and if it plays like trash it's not worth it to me. It's a damn shame too because it's generally a pretty guitar.


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## Buffnuggler (Jun 27, 2015)

damn i'm sorry to hear this, it's a shame that a reverse headstock ibanez doesn't deliver on quality. 

the Maik Weichert signature Ibanez I ordered awhile back was similarly priced to this but was actually pretty solid on the QC front. I hope you are able to get this guitar to the level that you desire, at least it looks really cool!


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## weirdoku (Jun 27, 2015)

max3000 said:


> We live in the days of social media which is very important to big companies like Ibanez. Tweet this at them, facebook at them, or whatever is big now. They'll take notice.



I just revived my twitter accoutn and tweeted them, also sent them photos on their facebook page. Lets hope I hear something back.



Chokey Chicken said:


> I understand it's not always an option, and I'm obviously not blaming you, but this is why it's good to play things before buying. I'm willing to bet if you had the option of trying it out first you wouldn't have bought it.
> 
> I actually don't think it looks terrible. Sloppy over tooled fretboards seem to be fairly common in budget guitars, as are a lot of the cosmetic flaws highlighted. Looks and playability are different though, and if it plays like trash it's not worth it to me. It's a damn shame too because it's generally a pretty guitar.



I really would have tried it first before buying it but that wasn't an option. The closest decent music shop around where I live is still 45 mins away by car. 

I have an even cheaper Ibanez than this and the fret work on that is 10x better. Indonesia made as well.


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## Rotatous (Jun 27, 2015)

For $475 this looks pretty shoddy. I've played plenty of Ibby's, Ltds, Schecters, etc. in that price range, and the only guitars with all of those flaws at once have been in the $100-200 range. Someone needs to get canned at QC for sure with this one, poor quality is poor quality no matter how much it costs. Maybe try sending it back and getting a replacement?

I know how it is to get a guitar and not be satisfied with it, hope it all works out!


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## FILTHnFEAR (Jun 27, 2015)

No, it's not a Prestige, but one shouldn't expect or accept those kind of issues with a pretty much $500 Ibanez. I would expect that on some $150 Gio or something, but not this.

These kinds of incidents are what make me weary about buying a standard or Iron Label series Ibby.


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## spn_phoenix_92 (Jun 27, 2015)

I'm glad to see an honest review of these, I was very close to ordering one myself. By the looks of it, it's got the quality of the Gio series while trying to look like an Iron Label. For only $25 more I got a 2014 Gibson SGJ that plays better than some guitars close to twice the price.


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## primitiverebelworld (Jun 28, 2015)

IDK dudes. I dont see anything terribly wrong with this axe to send it back specially at this price level. When I got my 330 euro rg331M there where also sharp frets all over the place(almost cut my finger with this one), one tuner misaligned, bridge pickup misaligned, no grounding. After serious setup It became a very good player - nothing bad at all.

Second comment about the weight which OP deemed to be very light for mahagony. Well..Probably its the fact that this guitar has oil finish and not thick coat of primer and poly. Because this fact the guitar body has been let to dry. Usually expensive wood for instruments is already aged and dry but Made in Indonesia means that wood is lower quality and contains more moisture. I have had an experience with Ibanez Apex II. After I "naturalized" it and gave her Tru-Oil finish the weight was definitely lower after some period of time because the moisture got out in a natural way and frequently renewed oil finish did not let her to crack during central heating periods. My sevenstring with 2 direct mount active pickups was so much lighter than my current rg331 with a pickguard(more wood carved out), no battery and six string. Its still fun guitar to play though i would prefere 800g lighter.

You have very nice PROJECT guitar. Spend the time workin with it if you feel its a keeper.


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## btbg (Jun 28, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> Something at least a bit better put together than this? Or is that acceptable to you? You don't go in a Burger King and pay $10 for a burger but expect it to be crap do you?



If you pay $10 for a burger at burger king clearly the point of fast food has gone over your head.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Jun 28, 2015)

btbg said:


> If you pay $10 for a burger at burger king clearly the point of fast food has gone over your head.



Or, you live in England, where fast food is more expensive...


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## weirdoku (Jun 28, 2015)

primitiverebelworld said:


> IDK dudes. I dont see anything terribly wrong with this axe to send it back specially at this price level. When I got my 330 euro rg331M there where also sharp frets all over the place(almost cut my finger with this one), one tuner misaligned, bridge pickup misaligned, no grounding. After serious setup It became a very good player - nothing bad at all.
> 
> Second comment about the weight which OP deemed to be very light for mahagony. Well..Probably its the fact that this guitar has oil finish and not thick coat of primer and poly. Because this fact the guitar body has been let to dry. Usually expensive wood for instruments is already aged and dry but Made in Indonesia means that wood is lower quality and contains more moisture. I have had an experience with Ibanez Apex II. After I "naturalized" it and gave her Tru-Oil finish the weight was definitely lower after some period of time because the moisture got out in a natural way and frequently renewed oil finish did not let her to crack during central heating periods. My sevenstring with 2 direct mount active pickups was so much lighter than my current rg331 with a pickguard(more wood carved out), no battery and six string. Its still fun guitar to play though i would prefere 800g lighter.
> 
> You have very nice PROJECT guitar. Spend the time workin with it if you feel its a keeper.



Maybe to you it's alright, but not to me. I was definitely not expecting a perfectly put together guitar with excellent fit and finish but this is just a little too much and it really isn't acceptable. To me anyway. If I was in Japan and could have tried this guitar first I would have told them they should burn it. But I live in England, the land of no exclusives or pay twice the price if you want it. I risked it but it turned out worst than I had imagined.

Comment about weight was a misunderstanding. I read the 'Body: Nato-Mahogany' as a combination of Nato and Mahogony. I didn't even know Nato Mahogony was a thing until the someone said, I'm no expert on woods nor well versed in all the wood types out there.

If I don't hear back from Shimamura or Ibanez Japan I'll sort it out myself. I just wasn't planning more than an electronics change and fret level or some little tidy up here and there.

I just noticed the dark corners at the end of the fretboard look like some kind of wood filler. Seems the corners were chipped and repaired at some point.



btbg said:


> If you pay $10 for a burger at burger king clearly the point of fast food has gone over your head.



Yes I live in England, things are expensive even for fast food. I thought the £ sign was obvious. That must have went over your head.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 28, 2015)

I don't know why folks think this is acceptable. At all. 

This guitar is, as I said before, a fu_c_king mess. Obviously it wasn't a good idea to get this thing, being a new, unproven Standard model, but that doesn't negate just how bad this guitar is. 

It should not have made it out of the factory, the distributor, or the shop. I'd be very interested to know if it was drop shipped or if Shimamura shipped it themselves. There's no way those issues could have been missed. 

Weirdoku: If you don't hear back from Ibanez or Shimamura soon (for what it's worth, Ibanez is probably going to tell you to talk to Shimamura as Ibanez's retailer agreement puts repairs, replacements, returns, and customer satisfaction duties on the retailer) take it to an Authorized Ibanez Repair Center, not all dealers are such but you can find local ones on the Ibanez website. Find the biggest one near you and take the guitar in. Even if you didn't purchase the guitar there, because they are an authorized repair center, they can help you.


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## Pikka Bird (Jun 28, 2015)

I know that sometimes things can be a little rough with new runs until the workers learn how to do a new kind of finish, install a new generation of bridges/other hardware, etc., but much of what's wrong with this is stuff that's not really specific to this model. Gouging into the fretboard when doing the fret ends is particularly inexcusable in my book since the process is the same no matter which model you're working on.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 28, 2015)

Pikka Bird said:


> I know that sometimes things can be a little rough with new runs until the workers learn how to do a new kind of finish, install a new generation of bridges/other hardware, etc., but much of what's wrong with this is stuff that's not really specific to this model. Gouging into the fretboard when doing the fret ends is particularly inexcusable in my book since the process is the same no matter which model you're working on.



While academically that makes a lot a sense, in practice it works differently. 

The first batch of production instruments tends to be very hit or miss, yet stabilizes the longer the model is in production. Look at the RG350 or RG8, or even the higher end RG2228 even. The first batches of these (the RG350 when it moved from South Korea to Indonesia specifically) were rather suspect, but now they're getting to be more consistent. 

These guitars are a bit different, the scale and finish are unique to them. That likely means the they needed new jigs, tools, templates, and methods to pull off (or not pull off in this case).

Throw on top that they probably wanted these out the door fast to meet order deadlines for the new model doesn't help either.


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## gunch (Jun 28, 2015)

my old 321MH was the first of second year for the MOL finish and it was a _*piece *_but this is a new low for Indonez

Hope at least someone down the line takes care of you and makes this right


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## Andromalia (Jun 28, 2015)

A cheap guitar should mean cheap parts, woods, and simple layout. It should not mean cheap parts, woods, simple layout *and* botched job. If they can't do a proper job at this price point, then don't make it or sell it at the price point where it won't look like they used mjolnir to set the frets in.
I wouldn't really bother about the finish since this kind is boud to get worn pretty fast and easily, but a decent neck should be standard.
I overall don't mind stuff I can fix myself, but a botched fretboard isn't such a thing. Pretty happy with my recent Iron Label which was not much more expensive considering it has EMGs and is MII too.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 28, 2015)

Andromalia said:


> A cheap guitar should mean cheap parts, woods, and simple layout. It should not mean cheap parts, woods, simple layout *and* botched job. If they can't do a proper job at this price point, then don't make it or sell it at the price point where it won't look like they used mjolnir to set the frets in.
> I wouldn't really bother about the finish since this kind is boud to get worn pretty fast and easily, but a decent neck should be standard.
> I overall don't mind stuff I can fix myself, but a botched fretboard isn't such a thing. Pretty happy with my recent Iron Label which was not much more expensive considering it has EMGs and is MII too.



That's the thing, to making something produced in large quantities like this cheaper you need to lower the release standard. The lower the release standard the less rejections the lower the production recovery costs the lower the unit price. 

Also, remember, the price on this is such because it was ordered as a limited release, so the unit cost was great than something made in larger quantities. Shimamura needed (and wanted) to charge more to recoup the higher wholesale price.


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## Sleazy_D (Jun 28, 2015)

That sucks. From a far it looks very nice


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## mag8 (Jun 29, 2015)

This is unacceptable from both Ibanez and the store QC.

send it back and shame on them


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## weirdoku (Jun 29, 2015)

Wow. What the actual f**ck? This is the reply I get? F**K Shimamura and Hoshino Music Japan.


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## Andromalia (Jun 29, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's the thing, to making something produced in large quantities like this cheaper you need to lower the release standard. The lower the release standard the less rejections the lower the production recovery costs the lower the unit price.



Yeah, but I see "lowering standards" as lowering specs (simple fret fressing, nothing fancy etc). To put it in perspective, if I buy cheap meat, I expect low quality, but not rotten.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2015)

Doesn't the EU have consumer protection laws that can force them to accept a return? 

Also, call your bank and discuss a charge back.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2015)

Andromalia said:


> Yeah, but I see "lowering standards" as lowering specs (simple fret fressing, nothing fancy etc). To put it in perspective, if I buy cheap meat, I expect low quality, but not rotten.



You can see red as blue but that's not going to make it right. 

This guitar isn't broken or non-functional, it's just ugly and lacks attention to detail. Believe it or not, some steel wool and sandpaper with take care of most of the aesthetic defects, same with mineral oil. But, that really shouldn't be the buyer's job to sort if they don't want to.

Specs mean very little in the way of cost when talking about large scale guitar OEMs. They buy wood and hardware in ridiculous quantities. The biggest factors on cost here are quantity and QA/QC threshold.


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## Haun (Jun 29, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> Wow. What the actual f**ck? This is the reply I get? F**K Shimamura and Hoshino Music Japan.



Never bought a guitar from Shinamura, and now I never will. Screw those guys to hell and back.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2015)

Out of curiosity, did you [weirdoku] receive anything with what their return policy is? 

Did they say sales would be final? 

Do they have a return policy posted on their website?


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## USMarine75 (Jun 29, 2015)

Wow, I almost pulled the trigger on the SRGEX1, but not now, and definitely never from Shimamura.


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## weirdoku (Jun 29, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Out of curiosity, did you [weirdoku] receive anything with what their return policy is?
> 
> Did they say sales would be final?
> 
> Do they have a return policy posted on their website?



T&Cs here https://store.shimamura.co.jp/shop/secure/overseas.aspx

I did reply back saying I'm not happy with the answer they gave me and I wish to speak to someone further up about it. I may perhaps seek compensation as parts of the guitar is 'damaged', not in transit but from the factory.

And no there was no message between us that said sales would be final, so no returns etc. All I did was message them asking to buy one, they gave me a quote, I paid then they messaged back a tracking number. No documents in the box except the invoice on the outside and usual shipping EMS shipping labels.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> T&Cs here https://store.shimamura.co.jp/shop/secure/overseas.aspx
> 
> I did reply back saying I'm not happy with the answer they gave me and I wish to speak to someone further up about it. I may perhaps seek compensation as parts of the guitar is 'damaged', not in transit but from the factory.
> 
> And no there was no message between us that said sales would be final, so no returns etc. All I did was message them asking to buy one, they gave me a quote, I paid then they messaged back a tracking number. No documents in the box except the invoice on the outside and usual shipping EMS shipping labels.



Yeah, definitely speak to a manager of some sort.

Reading the T&C, a few things come to light:



> The warranty for our products is valid only in Japan.



That might get you. 

Then this:



> We accept returns and cancellation under the following circumstance.
> &#12539;The product is wrong.
> &#12539;The product is damaged before or during shipping.
> In this case, you must report to the carrier (the local delivery company, the post office, or the EMS dealer) for the damage report within 3 days after the arrival. EMS can not accept the report later than 4 days.
> &#12539;*The product is faulty products.*



It's not the wrong guitar, it wasn't damaged in shipping, and how "faulty" the product is, is a murky area. 

Nothing is broken on the guitar, it's just not very well done. So I'm not sure how they would define "faulty". 

If I was you I'd start using their own language against them. Make an argument for the guitar being "faulty". The finish defects, and slipshod electronics would be where I'd start.


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## weirdoku (Jun 29, 2015)

Thanks man. I'll wait for their reply, I am not giving up so easily.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2015)

I'm assuming you paid via credit/debit card. Contact the issueing bank by calling the number on the back of the physical card. Open a case and start the process of getting a chargeback. 

If Shimamura doesn't help, just get your money back that way. You might not get the total amount and may need to make arrangements to send the guitar back, but your bank is on your side in situations like this.


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## weirdoku (Jun 29, 2015)

I paid with a credit card. The chargeback method is probably the last thing I'd like to do. If I end up that route would I be able to get the custom fees I paid back too? 

Siiiiigh. Never buying a guitar over the internet again unless I see super detailed/close up shots.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> I paid with a credit card. The chargeback method is probably the last thing I'd like to do. If I end up that route would I be able to get the custom fees I paid back too?
> 
> Siiiiigh. Never buying a guitar over the internet again unless I see super detailed/close up shots.



You're probably not going to get customs back no matter what, same with shipping. 

Nothing went wrong with shipping, and the taxes/customs are collected by your nation's government. Neither of those are the manufacturer's or seller's fees, and since that's who you're looking to recoup costs from, they aren't liable unless fraud took place. 

You might have to pay to get the guitar sent back as well, as you're unlikely to be able to keep it if the store winds up allowing a return. 

I think the takeaway for you here shouldn't be to never buy guitars sight unseen, but only do it when working with a seller within the same country, or at least one with a better return/exchange policy.

If they absolutely won't let you return the guitar, have them issue a partial refund of the purchase price (price less shipping, taxes, customs, etc.).


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## vkw619 (Jun 29, 2015)

Please keep us updated, I'd love to know how this gets sorted out in the long run.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jun 29, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> If I end up that route would I be able to get the custom fees I paid back too?



Unless the seller compensates you then no. Thats one of the big downsides with buying guitars from abroad.


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## Pikka Bird (Jun 29, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> While academically that makes a lot a sense, in practice it works differently.
> 
> The first batch of production instruments tends to be very hit or miss, yet stabilizes the longer the model is in production. Look at the RG350 or RG8, or even the higher end RG2228 even. The first batches of these (the RG350 when it moved from South Korea to Indonesia specifically) were rather suspect, but now they're getting to be more consistent.
> 
> ...



That doesn't directly explain why the fretwork is so abysmal, other than the last line about a deadline closing in. Are the fret ends not hand dressed by some guy who basically does nothing else for days on end? By rights he _shouldn't_ be making such a mess of it, no matter how much he hurries, but I guess that's just me expecting people to take a certain amount of pride in the job they do.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2015)

Pikka Bird said:


> That doesn't directly explain why the fretwork is so abysmal, other than the last line about a deadline closing in. Are the fret ends not hand dressed by some guy who basically does nothing else for days on end? By rights he _shouldn't_ be making such a mess of it, no matter how much he hurries, but I guess that's just me expecting people to take a certain amount of pride in the job they do.



Other than tool marks on the fretboard, we really don't know what's going on with the fretwork. The wood of the board expanding and contracting going from Indonesia to Japan to the UK can explain inconsistencies in height and protrusion from the sides.

If Cortek Indonesia operates similarly to other manufacturers, than fretdress is done by one person per guitar. Their skill level, quality of tools, experience, and quota will determine how neat the end job is. 

Let's not pretend these guitars are made by folks who love building guitars.


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## Pikka Bird (Jun 29, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Other than tool marks on the fretboard, we really don't know what's going on with the fretwork. The wood of the board expanding and contracting going from Indonesia to Japan to the UK can explain inconsistencies in height and protrusion from the sides.


Of course with wood being wood there's always a risk of some fret sprout and other annoying issues. What I'm talking about specifically is what we see in this picture where the dressing file has dug considerably into the fretboard.

The fact that Weirdoku got a reply stating that this was "appropriate quality" is ludicrous.

Once again- I am not talking about issues that can be attributed to wood doing woody stuff, or a new and unfamiliar finish or a "standard" rush job. Filing marks like the ones linked can't be blamed on anything other than pure carelessness.

However, I think it can be made to look pretty decent with some "rolled" fretboard edges and a new going-over with a dressing file by someone who cares just a little.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Let's not pretend these guitars are made by folks who love building guitars.


I straight up hate my job, but I still have the absolute best performance record the company has ever seen, while simultaneously being about 30% faster than all my colleagues on average and also being the only person who can be counted on to show up when it's cold outside, even though I'm the guy on the bicycle who lives 8 km away. Professional pride goes a long way.

I could sympathise if they decided to slack because they wanted to take a stand against their PHBs about work conditions or whatever, but when the top dogs approve of this quality then I suppose the carelessness goes all the way up top for models in this price range.


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## btbg (Jun 29, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> Yes I live in England, things are expensive even for fast food. I thought the £ sign was obvious. That must have went over your head.



Except... you used a $ sign. So


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## diagrammatiks (Jun 29, 2015)

I was seriously thinking about buying one of these. I still have an open email conversation with them about calculating shipping and custom fees...but this is definitely a no go.

The thing that is interesting is that Ibanez actually has one of the consistent budget lines I've seen in a long time. 

I've picked up a bunch of Indonesian and Korean S's and Rg's when I'm at guitar center and they've all been pretty decent. 

There's no reason a 500 dollar guitar should be utter crap.


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## weirdoku (Jun 29, 2015)

btbg said:


> Except... you used a $ sign. So





Was referring to my original post but alright, there's still fast food that cost $10!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2015)

Pikka Bird said:


> I straight up hate my job, but I still have the absolute best performance record the company has ever seen, while simultaneously being about 30% faster than all my colleagues on average and also being the only person who can be counted on to show up when it's cold outside, even though I'm the guy on the bicycle who lives 8 km away. Professional pride goes a long way.
> 
> I could sympathise if they decided to slack because they wanted to take a stand against their PHBs about work conditions or whatever, but when the top dogs approve of this quality then I suppose the carelessness goes all the way up top for models in this price range.



It's easy to sit there in the first world and bitch about your job, but that's frankly a million miles removed to what factory workers in the developing and third world have to deal with.

Even the foreman have it as rough. I've traveled to factories all over the world, and even in relatively developed nations, things can be down right scary. 

But damn do we love them cheap guitars!


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## Pikka Bird (Jun 29, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's easy to sit there in the first world and bitch about your job, but that's frankly a million miles removed to what factory workers in the developing and third world have to deal with.
> 
> Even the foreman have it as rough. I've traveled to factories all over the world, and even in relatively developed nations, things can be down right scary.
> 
> But damn do we love them cheap guitars!


Oh come on, that's definitely _not_ anywhere near the spirit of what I'm trying to say, so stop twisting my words into some kind of "lazy stupid foreigners should create perfect pieces of art for next to nothing". I am not some complete moron who knows nothing about how the market works and how the conditions are in the far east.

All I wanted to say in this thread is "How can a person who files fret ends for a living do such a horrible job on this when this particular part of the job is no different from doing fret ends for other guitars in the same price bracket?". I've never argued any other point of dissatisfaction in here. 

The arguments about the model being new doesn't address this in the slightest, since this one part isn't a new entry on the spec sheet. I've never seen another Ibby in the same price range (or way below) where the file has gouged that noticeably into the fretboard so many places. 

And the point of me mentioning my job (And a side note, what do you actually know about the conditions at my job?) was to touch upon the part about the factory not necessarily being manned by people who love to build these instruments. Not loving your job is an excuse now?


And I personally don't love "them cheap guitars", though I do have an Indo Ibanez (bought used) that is actually very decent.

... "" ?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 29, 2015)

Pikka Bird said:


> All I wanted to say in this thread is "How can a person who files fret ends for a living do such a horrible job on this when this particular part of the job is no different from doing fret ends for other guitars in the same price bracket?". I've never argued any other point of dissatisfaction in here.



Because the people doing this aren't always the best trained with the best tools or given an adequate amount of time to work on the instrument.



> The arguments about the model being new doesn't address this in the slightest, since this one part isn't a new entry on the spec sheet. I've never seen another Ibby in the same price range (or way below) where the file has gouged that noticeably into the fretboard so many places.



Then you need to play more guitars, then again having worked on them for a retailer for as long as I did I saw the stuff that most places don't let hit the sales floor.

I've seen worse on more expensive guitars. It shouldn't be that way, as there are at least three significant QC stops in the chain. 

I'm betting the store didn't even look at it before shipment. The fact the factory released it is irrelevant as there were two stops that were supposed to check it too, the Distributor and the Retailer.

Guitars this bad leave the factory all the time, its just those other two are supposed to catch it.



> And the point of me mentioning my job (And a side note, what do you actually know about the conditions at my job?) was to touch upon the part about the factory not necessarily being manned by people who love to build these instruments. Not loving your job is an excuse now?



Think about the worst day you've ever had at work. That's what the folks working in these factories dream of. Do you really not think you have it so amazingly better?

It's not about loving or hating their job, it's about how poorly the cards are stacked against them and even if they did love it and wanted to make the best guitars they just aren't given the opportunity to do so.

It's not the guy's making the guitars fault, or thier immediate supervisors, or even plant management. Their output hits certain measures and then it leaves the door, if something is at the lowest end of that allowable minimum, others are supposed to stop it.


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## geekusa (Jun 29, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> Something at least a bit better put together than this? Or is that acceptable to you? You don't go in a Burger King and pay $10 for a burger but expect it to be crap do you?



I would shoot myself if I paid $10 for a Burger King burger.

edit: saw that poster is in England. Still though.


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## Opion (Jun 29, 2015)

Dude, years ago I bought a RG321MH that looks very similar to this one. The quality of the fretwork wasn't amazing, but it certainly was not as crappy as this thing is...I'm sorry you got such a lemon. Try and return that thing ASAP.


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## Evil Weasel (Jun 30, 2015)

I also bought one of these guitars and while it's nothing on this there are some things that bother me. The finish is exceptionally thin. There are rough spots on the top and because the finish is so thin you can feel it under your hand. In places it feels like there is no finish at all. I had an RG321 previously and even though the finish was the same it did not have the same issue. No problems with the fretwork, binding etc though on mine. Still a bit disappointed given the cost. Would be easily sorted out but as above, I shouldn't really be paying for a finish flaw that should not have been passed on to me in a 'new' instrument.


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## mag8 (Jun 30, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> I paid with a credit card. The chargeback method is probably the last thing I'd like to do. If I end up that route would I be able to get the custom fees I paid back too?
> 
> Siiiiigh. Never buying a guitar over the internet again unless I see super detailed/close up shots.



If you paid with a credit card you can call up the credit card company and ask for a "chargeback". They will look into it and ask you for details. Most of the time, the credit card company will accept it (they have insurance policies, so they are not the ones paying for it) and return the money you spent for purchasing that guitar.
No, the import duties will not be included, as you probably paid to fedex via cash or with a separate transaction.

If you paid via paypal with a credit card, you would have gotten even more protection. 

Keep it in mind next time.


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## s4tch (Jun 30, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> As for the finish, it was advertised as being "in the natural" and "oil" so it's likely just a really thin oil coat, not a lacquer that's then made to feel like an oil finish. That's also why it's likely easy to nick and gouge.



Agreed. I've had an RGA32 MOL, it looked the same, and it was pretty easy to nick the body. I wouldn't blame anybody because of that, it's just an oil finished nato body. It looks nice anyway.

As for the other issues, I can't find any excuses.



weirdoku said:


> I paid with a credit card. The chargeback method is probably the last thing I'd like to do. If I end up that route would I be able to get the custom fees I paid back too?
> 
> Siiiiigh. Never buying a guitar over the internet again unless I see super detailed/close up shots.



As the others mentioned, you won't get any shipping fees or customs back. That sucks, I know.

I'd probably try to get a chargeback (depending on how much you payed for the guitar and for shipping&fees, that might be a loss to take), or I'd rather take the guitar to an Ibanez Repair Center, or to a tech for repairs. Most issues might be handled, and at the end of the day, you might either get a guitar that you actually enjoy, or sell the guitar with good conscience.


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## weirdoku (Jul 2, 2015)

Sigh. Still no reply from Shimamura. I'll go in the bank and ask about charge backs. I paid on a credit card through paypal.


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## ImBCRichBitch (Jul 2, 2015)

The look of it is beautiful, but from all that you posted, dayum


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## snorrie (Jul 2, 2015)

This post is actually the reason i joined the forum.
I recently ordered a premium PGM80P which was very similar in quality. the fretboard was marked with scratches,the pickups were misaligned, the neckpocket was not fiting the neck.
Needless to say i returned that guitar. I was lucky to get a full refund but I feel your pain.


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## Viginez (Jul 3, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> I paid on a credit card through paypal.


well, maybe paypal can help in this case. ask for money return and see what happens.


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## bzhan1 (Jul 3, 2015)

Might be just me but I don't mind natural finished guitars with imperfect finish. From the pics it looks pretty sweet for a low end guitar.


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## Kobalt (Jul 5, 2015)

God...DAMN, look at that fretwork! Jesus christ!


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## weirdoku (Jul 7, 2015)

I got another reply back from Shimamura. In my last email to them I asked if there was someone higher up the chain I could contact and the reply I got was basically go contact Ibanez directly myself and as a retailer they cannot do anything. Siiiigh.


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## JimF (Jan 8, 2017)

I'm so gutted for you to hear this. It looks like a great guitar and I was drooling over the black one. I too am in the UK and feel your pain regarding limited access to cool guitars. However I wouldn't lay too much blame against Shimamura. I don't know anything about them, I don't know how big they are etc. Whether they have 4 branches or 400 branches. But if they've gone back to their manufacturer (Ibanez) and their manufacturer has said the guitar meets their QC, then all they can do is say "Sorry, Ibanez says no" or refund you the cost, leaving them out of pocket for a guitar AND the cost of the guitar, so technically 2 guitars. I mean if they're as big as Asda/Walmart then its a different story, but I personally would be more pissed at the architect of the issue (Ibanez) than shooting the messenger (Shimamura). Also, sadly, it seems that because you're far away, they're assuming you won't turn up at their store shouting and smashing things; and anyone you tell probably wouldn't have bought one anyway (however incorrect that second assumption may have been).

I hope you get this sorted. I remember once I bought a beautiful natural flamed maple finish 70s Les Paul copy with satin silver hardware. I was so excited to get it (I was about 20) and when it came it was just wrapped in bubble wrap and the neck was snapped in that infamous LP 1-3 fret split. I was so disappointed. 

I feel your pain.


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