# heard a band called Architects for the first time today...



## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

and havent been able to take them off repeat. What genre is this in? The sound caught my ear first but when i looked up their tabs, i saw that the guitar uses a really neat tuning to simulate an 8 string on a 6.

F# F# B E G# C#..... the lower F# being 1 octave below the 5th string F#. I heard "Doomsday" first, then "A Match Made In Heaven" and just had to see how to play it. holy crap thats an interesting tuning. i also dug how their singer had such an aggressive sound yet you could hear underlying melody in it.


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## The Mirror (Mar 22, 2019)

Architects are very much the epitome of the modern "djenty" metalcore and also one of the most famous bands in that style.
I got shortly interested in them when Josh Middleton joined after the death of their main guitar player / songwriter in 16.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

The Mirror said:


> Architects are very much the epitome of the modern "djenty" metalcore and also one of the most famous bands in that style.
> I got shortly interested in them when Josh Middleton joined after the death of their main guitar player / songwriter in 16.




Unlike most folks, i generally keep myself locked away jamming endlessly, and I always travel for work so I cant play in a band, so outside of Facebook or Youtube random playlists, I dont get very much exposure to music outside my genre. I know that Ive heard many a discussion about the "musical genre that we cannot speak" and the disgust of its simplistic style. But outside of those discussions, i never went and listened to any of the bands thinking i was dodging a bullet. 

but last night i let youtube go after listening to I Prevail, and Doomsday came on. I was in the middle of restringing the guitar and i had to stop what i was doing to listen closer. It wasnt until I had heard the first 15 seconds of "A Match Made In Heaven" that it really grabbed my attention. I had no idea how the hell he was playing those riffs. When the intro started, the FIRST thing that popped in my mind was, "Holy balls he really nailed Meshuggahs tone", then i listened harder. 

Once I heard A Match, I went over to ultimate-guitar to see if there were any tabs of their stuff, and thats how i found the tuning. i also lucked out that they were so popular because it meant that there were going to be a bunch of "Official" guitar pro tabs to play in the background. Love the screaming/singing Sam does, but once i was able to listen to the instrumental versions that ultimate-guitar makes, i fell in love lol. i also now get it why that styles made fun of because 98% of the playing is on the bottom 2 strings hahahaha


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## diagrammatiks (Mar 22, 2019)

It’s Djent. We love Djent. It’s a joke but we love it. 

0000000000


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## rifftrauma (Mar 22, 2019)

Architects are a great band, but the most important thing you'll get out of this thread is that you need to check out Josh Middleton and Sylosis.


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## Mathemagician (Mar 22, 2019)

Basically just repeating riff’s comment.


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## lewis (Mar 22, 2019)

@soldierkahn welcome to the Architects fan club!

Been obsessed with these guys for years.

my band Enenra have them as one of our main influences.
If you like them, check us out (on all major streaming platforms - "Ferity//Revolt") - 

https://enenrauk.bandcamp.com/releases


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## KailM (Mar 22, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> It’s Djent. We love Djent. It’s a joke but we love it.
> 
> 0000000000



Speak for yourself.


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## MSS (Mar 22, 2019)

I love these guys. I just discovered them this year too. I also subscribed to napalm records and sumerian records on you tube. Some really great bands there.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

lewis said:


> @soldierkahn welcome to the Architects fan club!
> 
> Been obsessed with these guys for years.
> 
> ...




sweet, lol. i know it looks so simplistic that it SHOULD suck, but (and im not exaggerating), i had doomsday and match playing back and forth for going on 5 hours now.... i was lucky enough that some of my favorites were so popular that the ultimate guitar guys made a whole bunch of full band official guitar pro backing tracks. Ive listened through Holy Hell and All Our Gods, and im convinced i could have this shit on a permanent loop and never get bored with it lol. theres so many melodies that are so small and faint, and quick to boot, that you almost miss them. 

but NOTHING gets me freakin goin like that intro riff to A Match made in Heaven. Ill go and check out Enenra as well, thanks for the heads up


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## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

MSS said:


> I love these guys. I just discovered them this year too. I also subscribed to napalm records and sumerian records on you tube. Some really great bands there.



great idea, done.


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## gunch (Mar 22, 2019)

Ok now check out a band just called Architect


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 22, 2019)

They are a blend of hardcore, metalcore, djent etc. I just see it as Modern UK Metal.

I don't enjoy their albums but end up listening to certain songs 100+ times. I love the aggressiveness of their music and how much work they put into the lyrics and vocal melodies. The low F# suits their style so much.


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## JD27 (Mar 22, 2019)

rifftrauma said:


> Architects are a great band, but the most important thing you'll get out of this thread is that you need to check out Josh Middleton and Sylosis.





Mathemagician said:


> Basically just repeating riff’s comment.



Josh is awesome. He gets restrained with Architects, which is intentional I’m sure to keep within the framework of the band. Hope he does more Sylosis at some point though. Josh Middleton Project and Passages are awesome too.


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## Jonathan20022 (Mar 22, 2019)

Another interesting way to look at that tuning, which is just AADGBE tuned down 3 half steps, is that it's Drop F# but when you fret your chords you're just missing the 6th string. Same with BADGBE, (Or more commonly known by Mastadon/Periphery fans as AGCFAD ) being just Standard tuning on a 7 string but missing the 6th string


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## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Another interesting way to look at that tuning, which is just AADGBE tuned down 3 half steps, is that it's Drop F# but when you fret your chords you're just missing the 6th string. Same with BADGBE, (Or more commonly known by Mastadon/Periphery fans as AGCFAD ) being just Standard tuning on a 7 string but missing the 6th string



i thought it was utter genius how he was able to "cheat"(loose term) at having an 8 string sound but on a 6 because ive seen bands do something similar when they wanted to simulate the tone from a 7 string, but on 6 like your describing lol. Nothing More does the AGCFAD for a bunch of their songs, and i think Tool has used BADGBE before as well


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## MSS (Mar 22, 2019)

Wonder what string gauges he is using. I have a non baritone 6 in drop a# and use a 12 - 65 custom set from stringjoy.


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## JD27 (Mar 22, 2019)

70 for G# and 72 for F# according to a comment on his instagram. Don’t believe the rest are super heavy.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 22, 2019)

architects are really good, especially the last 2 albums (Holy Hell and All Our Gods Have Abandoned Us). 
Sylosis is fucking amazing if you want thrashy modern metal.


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## budda (Mar 22, 2019)

No one has mentioned hollow crown yet? For shame.

I consider this band metalcore. The good tracks are great.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Mar 22, 2019)

budda said:


> No one has mentioned hollow crown yet? For shame.
> 
> I consider this band metalcore. The good tracks are great.



I'm kind of a hipster for Architects where I enjoy their older stuff on average more than their newer stuff. The last 2 albums had a slight shift in style that was a net negative in my opinion (still great though). But Ruin, Hollow Crown, Daybreaker, and Lost Forever // Lost Together are some of my favorite albums _in general_, not even just within this scene. Incredible group of musicians.


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## BigViolin (Mar 22, 2019)

I'm late, where should I start? Definitely digging these guys.


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## budda (Mar 22, 2019)

BigViolin said:


> I'm late, where should I start? Definitely digging these guys.



I would say start at the start and go through the discography.


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## BigViolin (Mar 22, 2019)

budda said:


> I would say start at the start and go through the discography.



Sign of a good band, thanks!


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## lewis (Mar 22, 2019)

budda said:


> I would say start at the start and go through the discography.


yeah I mean thats a good shout but the earlier stuff is like odd. Mathcore style shit then went really melodic which in hindsight they hated. - Their "sound" has not really been honed in on until what the last 4 albums?


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## Bearitone (Mar 22, 2019)

Check out the song Early Grave! One of my favorites from architects


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## budda (Mar 22, 2019)

lewis said:


> yeah I mean thats a good shout but the earlier stuff is like odd. Mathcore style shit then went really melodic which in hindsight they hated. - Their "sound" has not really been honed in on until what the last 4 albums?



That's the whole point. Go through it all and see how they got to where they currently are.


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## lewis (Mar 22, 2019)

budda said:


> That's the whole point. Go through it all and see how they got to where they currently are.


Yeah true!!


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## PunkBillCarson (Mar 22, 2019)

KailM said:


> Speak for yourself.




Normally we're on the same page about the genre, but I will say this band is actually quite good. That said, Alcest and Wolves in the Throne Room are still in my constant rotation.


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## KailM (Mar 22, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> Normally we're on the same page about the genre, but I will say this band is actually quite good. That said, Alcest and Wolves in the Throne Room are still in my constant rotation.



If you’re vouching for them maybe I’ll give them a second listen. 

FWIW they sound more like metalcore to me than djent, which is on slightly thicker ice for me, but barely, lol.

Normally when I hear even a single note of djent tone my hand hits the “x” faster than a rattlesnake can strike. Good thing we’ve got bands like Emperor and Musmahhu to cleanse our ears afterwards.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Mar 22, 2019)

KailM said:


> If you’re vouching for them maybe I’ll give them a second listen.
> 
> FWIW* they sound more like metalcore to me than djent*, which is on slightly thicker ice for me, but barely, lol.
> 
> Normally when I hear even a single note of djent tone my hand hits the “x” faster than a rattlesnake can strike. Good thing we’ve got bands like Emperor and Musmahhu to cleanse our ears afterwards.



That's pretty accurate. Their last 3 albums have more of a djenty _*tone*_ on them, but as far as _*composition*_, they're more of a metalcore band. Their earlier work is actually closer to The Dillinger Escape Plan then it is to Periphery, so for you especially I would start from the very beginning. Nightmares, Ruin, Hollow Crown, and Daybreaker are probably good jumping off points for you.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

BigViolin said:


> I'm late, where should I start? Definitely digging these guys.



Ive been kind of obsessing over two albums for the last day or so lol.... All Our Gods and Holy Hell. This tuning is so damned interesting lol. Not to mention, holy shit did Tom have some nice axes from Mayones. I also see BKP in almost every guitar being played lol. I love their sound a lot, but i do understand that the further back I go, the more aggressive and hard the music gets with them. When I get the proper motivation, ill end up starting from the begining and listen to them all so i can hear their progression. Just wish Tom didnt have to pass away before i found out about them....


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## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> That's pretty accurate. Their last 3 albums have more of a djenty _*tone*_ on them, but as far as _*composition*_, they're more of a metalcore band. Their earlier work is actually closer to The Dillinger Escape Plan then it is to Periphery, so for you especially I would start from the very beginning. Nightmares, Ruin, Hollow Crown, and Daybreaker are probably good jumping off points for you.



this is the one thing that made Architects stand out to me and why i asked what genre they were, because it was too complex and (honestly) too good sounding to just be Djent lol. Tom managed to capture the same kind of tone I really dig, and found a way to use it that wasnt uber boring. Even before the genre was even born, i was obsessed with using light gauge strings slightly detuned to give the open low note that certain "detuned" tone. For example, playing Drop C with 10-48 so the strings have a little flop to them


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## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

it totally fucks me when it comes time to fast pick lol. ive been trying to train myself to have the "Dino touch" lol


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## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

Now I dont want this to turn into a "I hate Djent" conversation, but I am curious about something. The riff that pulled me into Architects world was the begining riff in A Match Made In Heaven, mostly because they nailed the exact tone in my favorite Meshuggah song, "Combustion". So heres my question, how is that tone built? I am assuming you only need a miniscule amount of gain, Bareknuckles probably help (im guessing), outside of that im lost. No matter how much i tweak my eq, I still cant get close to it. Any tips?


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 22, 2019)

soldierkahn said:


> Now I dont want this to turn into a "I hate Djent" conversation, but I am curious about something. The riff that pulled me into Architects world was the begining riff in A Match Made In Heaven, mostly because they nailed the exact tone in my favorite Meshuggah song, "Combustion". So heres my question, how is that tone built? I am assuming you only need a miniscule amount of gain, Bareknuckles probably help (im guessing), outside of that im lost. No matter how much i tweak my eq, I still cant get close to it. Any tips?


chop anything sub 100hz or over 6khz. bump the mids.. ts boosted high gain amp really helps accentuate that eq curve even more and gives an even tighter feel *depending on the amp/amp settings*


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## soldierkahn (Mar 22, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> chop anything sub 100hz or over 6khz. bump the mids.. ts boosted high gain amp really helps accentuate that eq curve even more and gives an even tighter feel *depending on the amp/amp settings*



thank you tremendously for getting me started. when you say bump the mids, since I dont ordinarily push or scoop mids out, what kind of an EQ swing are we looking at? for example, Bass-10 oclock, Mids-12 oclock, Treble-3 oclock? My amp is a modeler, spider valve mkII, and I almost never leave the Metal yellow setting as its Line6s version of a rectifier. I havent tinkered much with boost pedals, because my typical setup is i have my High Gain sound as default, and for low gain parts, i just roll my volume knob back until it hits the sweet spot, so the vast majority of the time i play, my volume knob is down on what i call crunch tone. I only bring it all the way back up for leads or if i want a lot of saturation. My typical eq swing is B-10oclock, Mids-like a millimeter shy of 12 oclick, Treb-3oclock approx (im constantly changing this one due to my amps Presence knob being out of comision) My gain level is usually around 2oclock-2:30.

When I try adding a boost pedal in, lower the amps gain, and use the boost as a tone shaper, i cant really tell much of a difference from my ordinary tone. Maybe you could help a tad with what im doing wrong?

Also, not sure if it matters much, but im running Lundgren Black Heaven in the bridge of my 970XL, so the pickup should be able to handle anything i throw at it....


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 23, 2019)

soldierkahn said:


> thank you tremendously for getting me started. when you say bump the mids, since I dont ordinarily push or scoop mids out, what kind of an EQ swing are we looking at? for example, Bass-10 oclock, Mids-12 oclock, Treble-3 oclock? My amp is a modeler, spider valve mkII, and I almost never leave the Metal yellow setting as its Line6s version of a rectifier. I havent tinkered much with boost pedals, because my typical setup is i have my High Gain sound as default, and for low gain parts, i just roll my volume knob back until it hits the sweet spot, so the vast majority of the time i play, my volume knob is down on what i call crunch tone. I only bring it all the way back up for leads or if i want a lot of saturation. My typical eq swing is B-10oclock, Mids-like a millimeter shy of 12 oclick, Treb-3oclock approx (im constantly changing this one due to my amps Presence knob being out of comision) My gain level is usually around 2oclock-2:30.
> 
> When I try adding a boost pedal in, lower the amps gain, and use the boost as a tone shaper, i cant really tell much of a difference from my ordinary tone. Maybe you could help a tad with what im doing wrong?
> 
> Also, not sure if it matters much, but im running Lundgren Black Heaven in the bridge of my 970XL, so the pickup should be able to handle anything i throw at it....


add more mids, dial in less bass. the boosting may not be useful for a spider unless you dial back the amp gain and let the boost help in that aspect.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 23, 2019)

budda said:


> No one has mentioned hollow crown yet? For shame.
> 
> I consider this band metalcore. The good tracks are great.



thank you for that recommendation, Hollow Crown shot right up to my top 5!


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## soldierkahn (Mar 23, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> add more mids, dial in less bass. the boosting may not be useful for a spider unless you dial back the amp gain and let the boost help in that aspect.



sweet, thanks!


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## PunkBillCarson (Mar 23, 2019)

KailM said:


> If you’re vouching for them maybe I’ll give them a second listen.
> 
> FWIW they sound more like metalcore to me than djent, which is on slightly thicker ice for me, but barely, lol.
> 
> Normally when I hear even a single note of djent tone my hand hits the “x” faster than a rattlesnake can strike. Good thing we’ve got bands like Emperor and Musmahhu to cleanse our ears afterwards.



I get that. I will say that Architects is more the exception instead of the rule. Again, I'm always going to be rooted in black metal.


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## Mathemagician (Mar 23, 2019)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Another interesting way to look at that tuning, which is just AADGBE tuned down 3 half steps, is that it's Drop F# but when you fret your chords you're just missing the 6th string. Same with BADGBE, (Or more commonly known by Mastadon/Periphery fans as AGCFAD ) being just Standard tuning on a 7 string but missing the 6th string



What general effect does this have on available chords/playing single note riffs. Is it to replace a bass player, thicken up low string 0-0-0-0 type riffs?

I don’t listen to much djent so I’ve never sat down with tabs to learn anything in this tuning. It looks super cool though. Guessing I need a 70+ string.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 23, 2019)

ill probably catch hell for this, but contrary to most people's opinion, i liked the lighter more melodic side of the last 2 albums All Our Gods and Holy Hell. Its kind of what drew me deeper into their music, because i can only take so much near-constant screaming. But from what im hearing, it sounds like he layers his screams over top of him singing clean..... i could be wrong, but thats what my ears here. The tone and opening riff of AMMIH caught my attention, but it wasnt until i heard Doomsday that I was fully on the hook lol. The chorus in that song gives me goosebumps with how Sam layered his vocals, ive never heard anything like that before.

and while i love the tone he gets out of his ear, I dont foresee me completely shifting my writing style into the Architects realm. what id like to do is take the things i love about them, and bring those elements into my writing style. I would get bored to tears playing a near constant 01000100010110 style of playing, but i think if its used tastefully and in moderation it would be freakin awesome!


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## PunkBillCarson (Mar 23, 2019)

^Honestly, the lighter more atmospheric side of that genre is the best thing about it. All those ambient clean passages? That's the best part about it for me. I don't dig the whole noodling just to be noodling deal. I love a good heavy no bullshit rhythm. Perfect example is the Doom 2016 soundtrack.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 23, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> What general effect does this have on available chords/playing single note riffs. Is it to replace a bass player, thicken up low string 0-0-0-0 type riffs?
> 
> I don’t listen to much djent so I’ve never sat down with tabs to learn anything in this tuning. It looks super cool though. Guessing I need a 70+ string.




from what ive gathered, it was to allow Tom to play with a low F or F# from an 8 string, but on his 6 string. Its a normal tuning with normal intervals until you get to the 6th string. so if you took an 8 string tuning, for example F# B E A D G B E, and wanted to play that low F# without having to completely change your guitar setup, he just skips past the 6th and 7th strings (E and B respectively) and uses the F# as his 6th string. so you could throw a normal set of 10-46 set on your six string, leaving out the 46. Put it a gauge thatll support the F# note. 

Tom does it a little different than the example though..... he tunes down to Drop B ( B F# B E G# C#), and then changes it up to simulate Drop F#..... so he'd remove the low B, and replace it with an F#...... giving him F# F# B E G# C#...... ability to play uber low tones, and have normal tension on the other strings


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## soldierkahn (Mar 23, 2019)

PunkBillCarson said:


> ^Honestly, the lighter more atmospheric side of that genre is the best thing about it. All those ambient clean passages? That's the best part about it for me. I don't dig the whole noodling just to be noodling deal. I love a good heavy no bullshit rhythm. Perfect example is the Doom 2016 soundtrack.



i LOVE those clean parts lol, it makes you feel like youre being taken away somewhere special. I picture the music video for Doomsday, where Tom(Dan) is being taken up into the sky into that light... thats how it feels for me


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## The Mirror (Mar 23, 2019)

To come back to the beginning, as I said that I shortly got interested in them after Josh joined. 

To be fair, Metalcore is absolutely not my genre. The only band that's associated slightly in that style and I listened to were Trivium (stopped after In Waves, because too damn hard-rock for me after that). 

Sylosis is the greatest shit of the last 10 years in the modern thrash genre, so I hoped that Josh as a new songwriter would bring some of the thrashy riffs, or maybe even the very doomy stuff from Passages over. He didn't really, though, which I can understand. 

Maybe their next record will have a track or two I can appreciate. Back to Dormant Heart it is for me right now.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 23, 2019)

I had an idea Im gonna try the next time i order strings. Since i have an ideal guitar for doing this, on top of trying Tom's tuning out (F# F# B E G# C#), im going to try combining two tunings. I love how Tremonti used open D5 tuning (DADADD) for some cool voicings, but I wanna try something that Tom inspired. I wanna take Tom and Mark's tunings and combine them. 

it wont be as deep or low as Architects, but use a 7 strings low A for: A-A-D-A-D-D


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## diagrammatiks (Mar 23, 2019)

soldierkahn said:


> I had an idea Im gonna try the next time i order strings. Since i have an ideal guitar for doing this, on top of trying Tom's tuning out (F# F# B E G# C#), im going to try combining two tunings. I love how Tremonti used open D5 tuning (DADADD) for some cool voicings, but I wanna try something that Tom inspired. I wanna take Tom and Mark's tunings and combine them.
> 
> it wont be as deep or low as Architects, but use a 7 strings low A for: A-A-D-A-D-D



You can play Djent slide


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## soldierkahn (Mar 23, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> You can play Djent slide



well what i had in my head, is you know how Tom gets some sick riffs out of having 2 different pitches of identical notes for his low strings? I could not only do the same thing with my 2 low As, but i could also use my doubled D strings for similar interval relationships. not to mention the fact that i only need to memorize positions for A and D only lol. can result in some interesting ambient playing while still being able to djent when needed lol

i also wouldnt have to worry about being too low to be able to strum an open A5 with all 6 strings, itd be right on the verge of not being able to, and could sound sick if done right/


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## Randy (Mar 23, 2019)

Calling Architects djent or metalcore is like calling wine "spoiled grapes".


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## gnoll (Mar 23, 2019)

I find that when I listen to Architects it tends to be songs from _The Here And Now_, which nobody else seems to like.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 23, 2019)

gnoll said:


> I find that when I listen to Architects it tends to be songs from _The Here And Now_, which nobody else seems to like.




I havent gone back to listen to their earlier albums yet. I found a kid on youtube with a nice RGA who has a big playlist of his covers of Architects, and im listening through them for songs that stick out to me 

loved the one he did for match made in heaven


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## littlebadboy (Mar 23, 2019)

My current favorite Architects song is "Royal Beggar". But my favorite keeps on changing every day.

Try to also listen to Texas in July, Crystal Lake, and Of Mice and Men.


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## budda (Mar 23, 2019)

I dont think the vocalist layers singing and screaming, he's doing both at the same time.

Something I wish I could do.

Andrew from comeback kid and BMTH vocalist do it well too (first I thought of this early).


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## lewis (Mar 23, 2019)

soldierkahn said:


> from what ive gathered, it was to allow Tom to play with a low F or F# from an 8 string, but on his 6 string. Its a normal tuning with normal intervals until you get to the 6th string. so if you took an 8 string tuning, for example F# B E A D G B E, and wanted to play that low F# without having to completely change your guitar setup, he just skips past the 6th and 7th strings (E and B respectively) and uses the F# as his 6th string. so you could throw a normal set of 10-46 set on your six string, leaving out the 46. Put it a gauge thatll support the F# note.
> 
> Tom does it a little different than the example though..... he tunes down to Drop B ( B F# B E G# C#), and then changes it up to simulate Drop F#..... so he'd remove the low B, and replace it with an F#...... giving him F# F# B E G# C#...... ability to play uber low tones, and have normal tension on the other strings


THIS!!

Ive been using my 6 string like its a 7 and 8 for YEARS. Works perfect and is the basis around my entire writing and playing style


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## littlebadboy (Mar 23, 2019)

lewis said:


> THIS!!
> 
> Ive been using my 6 string like its a 7 and 8 for YEARS. Works perfect and is the basis around my entire writing and playing style



I just use a Digitech Drop.


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## Guitarmiester (Mar 23, 2019)

gnoll said:


> I find that when I listen to Architects it tends to be songs from _The Here And Now_, which nobody else seems to like.




The last time I listened to Architects was when this album came out. This was and still is a great album. Going to check out their newer material. Curious to hear how they've progressed.


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## lewis (Mar 23, 2019)

littlebadboy said:


> I just use a Digitech Drop.


they just do not work properly. Intricate chords and note tracking goes complete to shit


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## littlebadboy (Mar 23, 2019)

lewis said:


> they just do not work properly. Intricate chords and note tracking goes complete to shit


it works fine with me down to drop A. But yeah, it goes a little bit crazy lower than that.


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## Mathemagician (Mar 23, 2019)

budda said:


> I dont think the vocalist layers singing and screaming, he's doing both at the same time.
> 
> Something I wish I could do.
> 
> Andrew from comeback kid and BMTH vocalist do it well too (first I thought of this early).



There’s a ginger dudes that sings in some band/project called “slaves” they have a bunch of material on YouTube. He does an amazing scream/sing and I’m just like “what...how?” The music itself would be almost radio rock if not for his vocals. It still is but I mean, just check it it lol.


And maaaan, this threads is going to make me justify a slightly longer 26.5 6-string guitar to try these tunings. Thankfully I only know the ibby RGA’s and I don’t like them that much.


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 23, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> And maaaan, this threads is going to make me justify a slightly longer 26.5 6-string guitar to try these tunings. Thankfully I only know the ibby RGA’s and I don’t like them that much.



I've GAS for a 28" 6 string for testing out all kinds of dope tunings like that.


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## Mathemagician (Mar 23, 2019)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I've GAS for a 28" 6 string for testing out all kinds of dope tunings like that.



PRS makes a 27.7 SE model. And the old Mike Mushoks were that long too.

Iiiinnnnneeexxpeeeenssssiiiiiive.

Just saying.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 23, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> PRS makes a 27.7 SE model. And the old Mike Mushoks were that long too.
> 
> Iiiinnnnneeexxpeeeenssssiiiiiive.
> 
> Just saying.


yup. 27.7" for the prs mushok
the ibby mushok was 28" scale, same with the rgib6, also warmoth/agile have 28.6" scale guitars


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## Ordacleaphobia (Mar 24, 2019)

gnoll said:


> I find that when I listen to Architects it tends to be songs from _The Here And Now_, which nobody else seems to like.



Hah, even the band talks smack about that album. It's just not their usual style. There doesn't seem to be much overlap between that album and people that like the rest of their material. 
I should circle back and give it another chance, though. I haven't listened to anything off of it in years, I feel like I'd probably appreciate the mellower stuff now.


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## Guitarmiester (Mar 24, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> There’s a ginger dudes that sings in some band/project called “slaves” they have a bunch of material on YouTube. He does an amazing scream/sing and I’m just like “what...how?” The music itself would be almost radio rock if not for his vocals. It still is but I mean, just check it it lol.



Never expected a Johnny Craig reference to ever pop up on Sevenstring. It's a shame he can't get his act together. He's been (musically)one of my favorite vocalists for years.


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## Mathemagician (Mar 24, 2019)

Guitarmiester said:


> Never expected a Johnny Craig reference to ever pop up on Sevenstring. It's a shame he can't get his act together. He's been (musically)one of my favorite vocalists for years.



Well I’m your guy cause I fucking LOVE pop music. So anything catchy gets my attention.


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## Mprinsje (Mar 25, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Hah, even the band talks smack about that album. It's just not their usual style. There doesn't seem to be much overlap between that album and people that like the rest of their material.
> I should circle back and give it another chance, though. I haven't listened to anything off of it in years, I feel like I'd probably appreciate the mellower stuff now.



The here and now is a great album if you like post-hardcore (which i do). It's just very different from their earlier mathcore and later djentcore.


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## Un1corn (Mar 25, 2019)

Yeah Architects is absolutely BEAUTIFUL.
Almost cried out when heard Doomsday


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## duffbeer33 (Mar 25, 2019)

Interesting to see this thread because I literally considered posting the exact same thing the other day. They are on a festival bill that I'm seeing in May, so I figured I'd give them a shot and listen to their discography. I've periodically heard them before in brief song clips, and I initially thought the "melodic screaming" that their singer did was a bit annoying and harsh. Well, after listening to all of their records, I've totally gotten over that. The musicianship is top notch. Their early records are crazy. I can't believe how much talent they had at that age. Especially self titled and Ruin. Very technical, almost DEP-influenced sounds when most of the members were 16 years old. Hollow Crown is a beast of a record. That opening riff of Early Grave sounds like something out of Nolly's playbook.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 26, 2019)

littlebadboy said:


> My current favorite Architects song is "Royal Beggar". But my favorite keeps on changing every day.
> 
> Try to also listen to Texas in July, Crystal Lake, and Of Mice and Men.



Love the new Of Mice and Men, luckily youtube keeps playing them in the Architects playlist i have going lol....


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## soldierkahn (Mar 26, 2019)

Un1corn said:


> Yeah Architects is absolutely BEAUTIFUL.
> Almost cried out when heard Doomsday



im not afraid to admit, when i watch the Doomsday video, when Dan stepped in as "Tom" being taken away into the core of light.... i lose it. Not afraid to admit it.... i lose it every time.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 26, 2019)

budda said:


> I dont think the vocalist layers singing and screaming, he's doing both at the same time.
> 
> Something I wish I could do.
> 
> Andrew from comeback kid and BMTH vocalist do it well too (first I thought of this early).



wait a minute.... is that even possible? like I know that people analyzed Chester Benningtons vocals and deciphered a lot more going on there than normal vocal operations, but im inclined to believe you.. 

everytime i listen to a live version of Doomsday, he hits those notes everytime flawlessly.... now of course there could be backing tracks being played, but im more inclined to believe its just his voice...


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## Sogradde (Mar 26, 2019)

Saw them live recently on their Holy Hell tour. I went because I'm a die hard Polaris fanbitch but I got to admit, the Architects show was killer. I just don't like the new songs that much. Ruin and Hollow Crown were my favourite albums for a long time and although I'm happy for them they found a niche that has obviously worked well for the past 3 albums and they deserve all the love they get, I still prefer the old stuff though.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 26, 2019)

this is by far my favorite clip that ive found of Tom, and He's tracking my favorite fucking riff too lol....
his tone is just..... i love it lol


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## soldierkahn (Mar 26, 2019)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I've GAS for a 28" 6 string for testing out all kinds of dope tunings like that.



thats why i dedicated so much time in finding the scale that makes me feel the most comfortable, and gives me the most options. theres very little that i cant do with my XLs


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## soldierkahn (Mar 26, 2019)

this is about as close as you can get to seeing A Match Made In Heaven personally played for you by Tom lol.... though he did say it was a "horrendously sloppy"


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## budda (Mar 26, 2019)

soldierkahn said:


> wait a minute.... is that even possible? like I know that people analyzed Chester Benningtons vocals and deciphered a lot more going on there than normal vocal operations, but im inclined to believe you..
> 
> everytime i listen to a live version of Doomsday, he hits those notes everytime flawlessly.... now of course there could be backing tracks being played, but im more inclined to believe its just his voice...



Very possible, a lot of bands do it. I fake doing it in my car a lot too


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## soldierkahn (Mar 26, 2019)

budda said:


> Very possible, a lot of bands do it. I fake doing it in my car a lot too



any idea what models of Bareknuckles that he'd use in his Mayones? About the only BKP i have experience with are the Aftermaths in my RGA6UCS, and I promptly switched the bridge BKP out for a seymour duncan JB real quick lol


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## diagrammatiks (Mar 26, 2019)

Google says juggernauts but who knows.

The other guy has an awesome lsl sig baritone. I love it.


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## budda (Mar 26, 2019)

soldierkahn said:


> any idea what models of Bareknuckles that he'd use in his Mayones? About the only BKP i have experience with are the Aftermaths in my RGA6UCS, and I promptly switched the bridge BKP out for a seymour duncan JB real quick lol



Oh I was talking about the vocal style.


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## soldierkahn (Mar 26, 2019)

budda said:


> Oh I was talking about the vocal style.



i know it replied directly to you, but i was also asking everybody lol. i sometimes forget how these "replies" function on here


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## soldierkahn (Mar 26, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> Google says juggernauts but who knows.
> 
> The other guy has an awesome lsl sig baritone. I love it.



see thats why i was having a hard time, because I got a bunch of different information lol. im not looking to dump tons of effort into mirroring their tone, but knowing what they use to accomplish what they have done is useful information for me


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## Mathemagician (Mar 26, 2019)

Ok so someone posted an architects tuning as:

F#F#BEG#C#

Which in standard is:

AADGBE on a 6 string. 

What would the most logical way of doing this on a 7 string? Add a pitch between the two A’s? Which note? Or go DAADBGE something? 

This is all bananas to me.


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## Pietjepieter (Mar 27, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> Ok so someone posted an architects tuning as:
> 
> F#F#BEG#C#
> 
> ...



I think i would add a F# on top, so F#F#BEG#C#F# or in standard: AADGBEA. adding a note on the down site will only be in the way while playing the riffs and will be well really really low (special in F#, it will be a C# and thats well yaeh quite low)


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## Mathemagician (Mar 27, 2019)

Ok so in that case I should tune down at least a whole step then I suppose. As I had hoped to be able to play it “in standard” as I don’t like going too low for clarity reasons. 

But a high A even with an .008 string (I think I did it right) would snap all the damn time. So a high B is likely to work better. 

Hmmmm, Damn I may end up just tuning down 1.5 steps to F# anyways when it’s said and done.


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## Pietjepieter (Mar 27, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> Ok so in that case I should tune down at least a whole step then I suppose. As I had hoped to be able to play it “in standard” as I don’t like going too low for clarity reasons.
> 
> But a high A even with an .008 string (I think I did it right) would snap all the damn time. So a high B is likely to work better.
> 
> Hmmmm, Damn I may end up just tuning down 1.5 steps to F# anyways when it’s said and done.



Yeah a high A will properly be a little to high, don't see how a high B will work better since it's even higher. Anyway if you go down to F# it should be possible. A other option is to just tune it EEADGBE. I have a 7 in that tunning at the moment and thats lots of fun!


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## Mathemagician (Mar 27, 2019)

Wait high G. I alphabeted wrong.


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## Pietjepieter (Mar 27, 2019)

Yeah, that's cool I think! Then you have a 3th between the E and the G, should work and actually quite interesting 

Anyway cool band Architects!


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## MikeH (Apr 18, 2019)

I had always known about Architects but never gave them a real devoted listen until last night. A video popped up in my suggested feed on YouTube of them playing Gone With The Wind where Sam talks about Tom’s passing, and holy shit. I haven’t stopped listening to them. AOGHAU, LT//LF, and Holy Hell are fantastic. I’m really interested in trying out their tuning and learning some of their material, because I don’t think I’ve been this inspired by a metalcore band in quite a long time.

/late as fuck to the party


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## Matthias Markiewicz (Apr 18, 2019)

Compare both videos at 40 seconds. am i the only one who thinks it sounds nearly the same?^^


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## AirForbes1 (May 23, 2019)

I'm late to the Architects party as well. I really like Holy Hell, and have made a slight effort to listen to some older stuff, but I have a hard time not listening to Holy Hell.

Anyway, saw them in Toronto last night and I loved it. Will definitely see them again, and I'm not all that much of a concert goer. But, I really wanted to support them and I recommend seeing them, for any of the new fans out there.


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## duffbeer33 (May 24, 2019)

I am also late to the Architects party, and I cannot believe I've missed them for so long. I saw they were on the bill for the Sonic Temple Festival in Ohio (which was this past weekend) so I started listening to the them religiously back in the February or March. I must say, I've been absolutely blown away by the musicianship of these guys and the endurance of their singer. Went out and saw them on one of the side stages at the festival this past weekend and it was absolutely amazing. They opened with "Modern Misery" and went right into "Nihilist". Needless to say I was right at the front of the pit during these songs, singing every word. I gather that most Americans are still not totally familiar with this band for some reason. Their old stuff is insane too -- I absolutely love Hollow Crown and particularly that first riff in "Early Grave." Cheers to these guys.


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## McKay (May 24, 2019)

It's really weird to see Architects described as a band that only came into their own recently, as if their older stuff was them finding their feet. Architects weren't just a metalcore band, they were one of _the_ metalcore bands back in the 2000s and a huge influence on basically everyone I knew as a teenager. To use an analogy it would be like if Slayer started playing Death Metal in the 90s and people started saying Reign in Blood was a footnote instead of being a seminal album.


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## duffbeer33 (May 25, 2019)

McKay said:


> It's really weird to see Architects described as a band that only came into their own recently, as if their older stuff was them finding their feet. Architects weren't just a metalcore band, they were one of _the_ metalcore bands back in the 2000s and a huge influence on basically everyone I knew as a teenager. To use an analogy it would be like if Slayer started playing Death Metal in the 90s and people started saying Reign in Blood was a footnote instead of being a seminal album.


That's interesting. I'm guessing this is a regional thing. In the US I don't think many people heard much about Architects until the past five years or so. Where in comparison, I saw and heard much more about Bring me the Horizon a long time ago. Satellite radio stations like Sirius XM never really played Architects, so it was pretty hard to discover them back then.


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## Mattiktpq (May 27, 2019)

soldierkahn said:


> im not afraid to admit, when i watch the Doomsday video, when Dan stepped in as "Tom" being taken away into the core of light.... i lose it. Not afraid to admit it.... i lose it every time.



Dude, my wife and I went to see them at the beginning of this month and when they played Gone with the Wind and Sam started sing the lyrics, "If I could silence all the doubt in me, accept that what is meant to be" I lost it. Tom knew he was going to pass on and he wrote songs about it. Gone with the Wind is him coming to terms with the inevitability of his death. Hell, he wrote songs on Lost Forever/Lost Together about his battle with melanoma(C.A.N.C.E.R.) and no one realized it at the time because he and the band had kept it a secret. Or at least none of my friends realized it or had any idea, I sure didn't. Tom was and still is one of my favorite guitarist/song writer and Architects will always be one of my favorite bands. The fact that those songs are that deep and personal takes that music to a whole other level, for me anyways. But enough gabbing, if you get a chance to see them live... FUCKING DO IT. You will not regret it.


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## Mattiktpq (May 27, 2019)

soldierkahn said:


> see thats why i was having a hard time, because I got a bunch of different information lol. im not looking to dump tons of effort into mirroring their tone, but knowing what they use to accomplish what they have done is useful information for me



I don't know if it'll help much but here are pictures of Tom's pedalboard and amps from 2015(LF/LT and AOGHAU Time Period):










So you'll have a general idea of some of his settings. I'm sure you can use it to further find the Holy Hell sound.


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## soldierkahn (May 28, 2019)

Mattiktpq said:


> I don't know if it'll help much but here are pictures of Tom's pedalboard and amps from 2015(LF/LT and AOGHAU Time Period):
> 
> 
> 
> ...




i cannot begin to thank you enough for this brother!!!!! For my F# tone, Architects' AOGHAU tone is that final matured sound thats not so much Djent as it is tight and controlled. Deathwish is a great example, the guitars and drums being so tight they sound like a machine gun lol.

you wouldnt happen to know the specs of his Mayones Regius Baritone 6 custom would you? i know its a neckthru, 27" scale Regius, but I cant find the woods used. I believe he also used BK Juggernauts in it as well. The only vid i really have for reference on tone is:


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## soldierkahn (May 28, 2019)

Un1corn said:


> Yeah Architects is absolutely BEAUTIFUL.
> Almost cried out when heard Doomsday




i cant help but cry when im watching the video, its the last bridge before the final chorus, when they show Tom (Dan playing him in the vid) shooting off into the ball of light, returning to the universe. no matter what i do, i always tear up there.....


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## soldierkahn (May 28, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> Google says juggernauts but who knows.
> 
> The other guy has an awesome lsl sig baritone. I love it.




yeah, Ive only just started diving into what Adam's setup looks like. I just dont look to him much because he didnt record anything on anything prior to Holy Hell. Not saying that in a negative way, but if im focused on the sound and the playing, Tom is the only direction one could look for albums prior to Holy Hell. At first I thought Tom was just a big contributor, but the more documentaries and interviews i watch, everything points to Tom literally crafting damn near every part to every song, with the guys coming in the learn their parts after completion. But maybe im mistaken?


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## Konfyouzd (May 28, 2019)

KailM said:


> Speak for yourself.


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## Sdrizis89 (May 30, 2019)

Architects are a great band. I’d classify them as modern metalcore but they definitely stick out of the bunch in a good way. Great grooves, melodies, vocals are amazing IMO, and their ambient sections are incredible. Mimicking their tone shouldn’t be too hard but you need to remember that their bassists tone is helping shape their tone as well. That bass tone, along with their guitars together are great. Super tight, clear, and heavy. I just saw them live for the 2nd or 3rd time last week and they we’re incredible. Their tone is monstrous live as it is in the albums. My personal favorite is AOGHAU. That album carries so much emotion, which makes it even heavier to me. Tom wrote it knowing he may pass away from cancer. Hearing that record before he passed and then hearing it again after was crazy. It changed the way I interpreted it. Their older stuff is great as well. Hollow crown, Ruin, etc.


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## Konfyouzd (May 30, 2019)

I like their singer. Never listened to them before. The music--to me--sounds like more of the same but I think I'm just getting old.


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## MikeH (May 31, 2019)

Still listening to them every single day. I have yet to get bored of Tom’s songwriting. I will say, aside from pre-Daybreaker material, Holy Hell is probably my least listened to out of their albums. Not that it’s not great, because it has some fantastic songs on it. The Seventh Circle is such a hard fucking jam, and Josh knows how to riff for days. But something about Tom’s writing just hooks me in. AOGHAU is my favorite album in my rotation right now, by a long shot.


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## soldierkahn (May 31, 2019)

Sdrizis89 said:


> Architects are a great band. I’d classify them as modern metalcore but they definitely stick out of the bunch in a good way. Great grooves, melodies, vocals are amazing IMO, and their ambient sections are incredible. Mimicking their tone shouldn’t be too hard but you need to remember that their bassists tone is helping shape their tone as well. That bass tone, along with their guitars together are great. Super tight, clear, and heavy. I just saw them live for the 2nd or 3rd time last week and they we’re incredible. Their tone is monstrous live as it is in the albums. My personal favorite is AOGHAU. That album carries so much emotion, which makes it even heavier to me. Tom wrote it knowing he may pass away from cancer. Hearing that record before he passed and then hearing it again after was crazy. It changed the way I interpreted it. Their older stuff is great as well. Hollow crown, Ruin, etc.



I am in 10000% agreeance with you here. Tom's use of atmospherics is a thing of legends and i could only dream of being able to write some of that, but ill get better at creating that once Ive gotten a solid recording setup achieved. My fav album is AOGHAU by FAR for the same reasons you listed. I have become so deeply fascinated with that album's sound (I would consider "Doomsday" as being in the same vein as it was mostly written by Tom) that Im slowly knocking out deep examinations of all of UG.com's "Official" Architects guitar pro tabs for that album. Ive just about finished with my first study, Doomsday, and am very proud of how that one has ended up finally. What ill do is set the song itself on a 1 hour loop in the background while i do other things. Once the song is almost permanently ingrained to my ears, ill stop it and kick their tab on. Makes it so damn easy to pickout so many discrepancies easier. That main opening riff is what solidified my desire to start studying their music deeply, but i kept getting pissed off when no tab or youtube cover could nail that opening perfectly. Everyone picks the majority of the notes, but when you listen HARD and watch Adam's hands close in their Radio 1 performance, you can see that the majority of the fast notes are all pull-offs+hammer-ons on the 5th string, only picking the 0-10 on the low F# (skip to 0:26, i can't embed the videolink with the bookmark time):



I really appreciate you being sure to include that info about how the bass provides a fair amount of the low end in their sound (combined with having amazing mixers ), and that its the COMBINED efforts of everything that creates that final sound im hearing on the album. Many people including myself forget that from time to time lol. In my head, for my logic, the reason that Im chasing Tom's tone for F# is because if i spec out the majority of my equipment to what he used on AOGHAU to record, I know that i can get the guitar department sitting in the mix in the proper place. Kind of like trying to put a puzzle together, but only being given a couple of pieces to it. If I can figure out the shapes of those other pieces (instruments and eqs), then ill know that when I record, I can achieve the end result im hoping for. 

This isnt to say that im closed off to people suggesting other setups, so long as they provide the exact same results i was aiming for with my initial plan. Im not looking to be a "Tom rip-off/clone" because i cant write anywhere near his level of rythmic complexity, but I know that the sound/tone from that album is exactly how I want my "G#/F#" tuned songs to sound. It took years of work and research and constant chastising from here to finally narrow down how to achieve my A/B standard/Drop A/B and up tones, so now I am starting down my journey of how to achieve the tone im chasing for G# and lower.


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## soldierkahn (May 31, 2019)

Konfyouzd said:


> I like their singer. Never listened to them before. The music--to me--sounds like more of the same but I think I'm just getting old.



im not offended by that at all, nor do i disagree completely brother. Alot of the reason I love them so much is BECAUSE their music sounds like a lot of the same. Im in head over heels in love with THEIR particular sound, so by having so much of what i want to hear i feel like a spoiled child lol. While I do not mean this in a negative way, a lot of "stereotypical" djent and/or shredde mcfuntits metal sound all the same and emotionless to me, same with Black Metal and Cookie metal..... but I also say that knowing that there are a great number of people out there who are as obsessed with those styles/bands as I am about Architects, so we each have our own unique tastes and influences. The thing I try my best to avoid saying is that a particular band makes shit music or sucks, because I realize that while i might not like them or get inspired by them, theres plenty out there that do.

also, if they stay true to THAT sound, it gives me feeling that i have plenty of room to put my stuff out there that utilizes that same sound, but heads a different direction musically with it.


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## soldierkahn (May 31, 2019)

MikeH said:


> Still listening to them every single day. I have yet to get bored of Tom’s songwriting. I will say, aside from pre-Daybreaker material, Holy Hell is probably my least listened to out of their albums. Not that it’s not great, because it has some fantastic songs on it. The Seventh Circle is such a hard fucking jam, and Josh knows how to riff for days. But something about Tom’s writing just hooks me in. AOGHAU is my favorite album in my rotation right now, by a long shot.



Im in this same boat myself. I wish I was exaggerating but I can honestly say the album gets at least 3-4 full rotations per day. From the time i wake up, until i lose consciousness at night, AOGHAU is playing on permanent repeat. If Im in the office and I dont have headphones, ill get on UG.com and play the Official Tabs' backing tracks. People are more willing to tolerate hearing the aggressive music, but if the vocals are brought into the mix, youll promptly get asked to turn it off. 

I also feel same way about Holy Hell as you, i dont hate it by any shade of that word, but it does get the least plays. Its not to say that I dont love the album, but it feels to me like Holy Hell was really just a few extra songs that "really belonged on the AOGHAU album"and then a few more songs showcasing the guys' attempt at keeping the Architect's sound alive. When I hear "Dying To Heal", "Doomsday", and "Mortal After All", it feels like they belong on AOGHAU. So they get included in my daily cycle of Architects, along with "Naysayer" and "C.A.N.C.E.R.".


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## Mprinsje (Jun 1, 2019)

duffbeer33 said:


> That's interesting. I'm guessing this is a regional thing. In the US I don't think many people heard much about Architects until the past five years or so. Where in comparison, I saw and heard much more about Bring me the Horizon a long time ago. Satellite radio stations like Sirius XM never really played Architects, so it was pretty hard to discover them back then.



I remember seeing Architects live before Hollow Crown came out. They played at the never say die tour in 2008, above bands like whitechapel and carnifex, they absolutely killed it. They were reasonably big in the late 2000's in Europe and the first 3 records are very important to me, some of my favorite metalcore records ever produced.


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## Mattiktpq (Jun 13, 2019)

There's also this!


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