# Dimebag and Dean are done - lawsuit follows



## straymond (Aug 16, 2021)

Just posted by the trustee

http://www.dimebagdarrell.com/news/in-dime-we-trust


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 16, 2021)

Well that explains why we've been getting less and less Dimebag guitars then? Judging by what the CEO told her, they aren't selling like they used to?

Wonder if this means they're starting a new Dimebag company.

EDIT: I guess "Dime Guitars" was the hint.  Probably gonna be a side hustle with Dean Zelinsky.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 16, 2021)

Basically, Rita wants more money, and Dean doesn't want to make a million import Dime models anymore.

Dime didn't have any kids. There is no "legacy", it's just Rita's pocketbook at this point.


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## Dooky (Aug 16, 2021)

I know it's extremely unlikely, but it'd be great if Washburn were to make them again.


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## aesthyrian (Aug 16, 2021)

I wonder if Ola is drooling over the potential of a Dime Solar. Surely they would be of better quality than the Dean imports. Of course, Solar doesn't have the proper distribution to really handle such a name yet.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 16, 2021)

Okay now I can see why she sued. According to her, the contract ended in 2020, Rita and Dean couldn't come to a deal, but Dean continued to make Dimebag sigs and use his name, likeness, and designs, also without paying Rita. Apparently they also didn't own the Razorback and Stealth shape and one of Dean's partner companies tried to "illegally" trademark the Razorback.

Seems like she's getting a bit bold and trying to claim ownership of the ML shape too? Due to some loophole with his old Washburn endorsement?


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 16, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Okay now I can see why she sued. According to her, the contract ended in 2020, Rita and Dean couldn't come to a deal, but Dean continued to make Dimebag sigs and use his name, likeness, and designs, also without paying Rita. Apparently they also didn't own the Razorback and Stealth shape and one of Dean's partner companies tried to "illegally" trademark the Razorback.
> 
> Seems like she's getting a bit bold and trying to claim ownership of the ML shape too? Due to some loophole with his old Washburn endorsement?



I'm interested to see what these dealings related to when Rita wasn't involved were. 

The complaint, rightly so, glosses over the fact she wasn't involved for many years and other deals/contracts were made in that time.

That's the thing, the complaint is meant to favor the plaintiff, it's basically the layout of their argument. It'll be interesting to see what the contracts actually say.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 16, 2021)

....look...I just need new Modifier models, man. Somebody c'mon here and get with it.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 17, 2021)

Would Dime models sell that well in 2021?

Superstrats came back with home recording and now with everyone in their bedroom and homes I don’t see pointed guitars being nearly as popular anymore.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2021)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Would Dime models sell that well in 2021?
> 
> Superstrats came back with home recording and now with everyone in their bedroom and homes I don’t see pointed guitars being nearly as popular anymore.



Which is why we've seen the number of import models shrink, and a move toward small runs of more expensive limiteds and USA models.

Armadillo basically laid it out: it's been nearly 20 years, just about every _dime_ has been wrung out of these guitars. 

But Rita is demanding they just make more guitars, because she makes money off of how many guitars are made and how many advertisements are run. More is more. 

Now there are a couple unknowns, because we don't have the contracts in front of us. Did Armadillo breach anything? Maybe. 

Reading between the lines in the complaint, it seems that a deal was struck when Vinny was still in control, something that isn't favorable to Rita, and since the contract was up, she's fighting to get more. Anyone who has negotiated contracts knows that once you make certain concessions it's impossible to get them back. I have a feeling Vinny made such concessions and now Rita is trying to roll things back to where they were more favorable.


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## Andromalia (Aug 17, 2021)

Well, Dime _did _pass away 16 years ago. His fanbase probably is mostly just old dudes now. It makes sense that his signature guitars sell less and less, especially since they aren't really mainstream.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2021)

Andromalia said:


> Well, Dime _did _pass away 16 years ago. His fanbase probably is mostly just old dudes now. It makes sense that his signature guitars sell less and less, especially since they aren't really mainstream.



Yeah. I think Dean has been pretty smart with what they've been doing with the lineup. Moving upmarket to cater to the fans who are now older and have more disposal income to throw at USA made runs of oddball Dime models.

But that's fewer units, and if royalties are fixed and not proportionate it's smaller checks. They're also not going to be running print ads for small runs.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 17, 2021)

To be fair...Dean would look a lot better without Dime's face all over it and they could focus on their guitars and not the "Getcha Pull" Fest that they pretty much are.

Then Rita can do a Schecter offshoot like Wylde and do a million horribly ugly Sime guitars..only difference is Dime is dead and with every passing year he loses relevance so they won't sell all that hot.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> To be fair...Dean would look a lot better without Dime's face all over it and they could focus on their guitars and not the "Getcha Pull" Fest that they pretty much are.
> 
> Then Rita can do a Schecter offshoot like Wylde and do a million horribly ugly Sime guitars..only difference is Dime is dead and with every passing year he loses relevance so they won't sell all that hot.



So Wylde Audio part 2? 

You know, except the dude is dead not just their relevance. Wait...maybe both.


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## RoRo56 (Aug 17, 2021)

Whoever proofread that legal document missed a fairly big spelling mistake on the first page.

Sad seeing stuff like this go down. Reading through it she was obviously pissed at the percentages Vinnie negotiated while he was in charge of the estate. Can't admit to herself that the market and relevance for Dime has definitely shrunk considerably.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2021)

RoRo56 said:


> Whoever proofread that legal document missed a fairly big spelling mistake on the first page.
> 
> Sad seeing stuff like this go down. Reading through it she was obviously pissed at the percentages Vinnie negotiated while he was in charge of the estate. Can't admit to herself that the market and relevance for Dime has definitely shrunk considerably.



"COMPAINT" 

Good eye.


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## Lozek (Aug 17, 2021)

You know they're reaching a little when the complaint include his 'success' in Damageplan.


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## sepsis311 (Aug 17, 2021)

Our existence is proof that there are alternate universes, I am sure we are one of them. Only in an alternate universe, does someone who doesn't even play guitar, and is the girlfriend, have claim for an endorsement deal of someone who is deceased. Only in an alternate universe, could she get a new endorsement for her deceased boyfriend, who probably has never even played that brand guitar, and will likely be photoshopped holding one, in the most distasteful display of disaster.


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## WarMachine (Aug 17, 2021)

This makes me feel a little weird about ordering a Razorback Rust that i bought Saturday......
But to be fair, i always wanted one. Finally pulled the trigger on it. I'm a Dime fan, not a Rita fan.


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## The Mirror (Aug 17, 2021)

sepsis311 said:


> Only in an alternate universe, could she get a new endorsement for her deceased boyfriend, who probably has never even played that brand guitar (...)



You got some points there, but are you questioning that Dime ever played his actual signature model (which of course he didn't) or if he ever played Dean guitars?

The latter would be wrong as Dime loved the Dean ML (many pictures of him playing original Dean MLs) and his Washburn Signature is basically a direct copy of it since he couldn't get a signature deal directly with Dean as they were de-facto not existent for the exact time when Pantera started to become huge.

Him getting a signature deal with the new founded Dean Guitars in '04 (unfortunately just a month before his death) was probably a dream come true for him.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 17, 2021)




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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2021)

The Mirror said:


> You got some points there, but are you questioning that Dime ever played his actual signature model (which of course he didn't) or if he ever played Dean guitars?
> 
> The latter would be wrong as Dime loved the Dean ML (many pictures of him playing original Dean MLs) and his Washburn Signature is basically a direct copy of it since he couldn't get a signature deal directly with Dean as they were de-facto not existent for the exact time when Pantera started to become huge.
> 
> Him getting a signature deal with the new founded Dean Guitars in '04 (unfortunately just a month before his death) was probably a dream come true for him.



I take it you didn't read the whole complaint first.


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## Kyle Jordan (Aug 17, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I take it you didn't read the whole complaint first.



*compaint


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## ArtDecade (Aug 17, 2021)

Evan Rubinson: "Your complaints are baseless - please serve me with an official lawsuit...." [Section 38]

Gets served with PLAINTIFF IN DIME WE TRUST, RLT'S *COMPAINT* AND DEMAND FOR JURY TRIAL.

[Evan chuckles himself to sleep]


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 17, 2021)

So I'm wondering if she threw the Washburn Dime shape in there to try and get the trademark for that shape, that way she can have that shape, the Razor back, and Stealth for the inevidable Dime brand.


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## manu80 (Aug 17, 2021)

can't wait to see Kerry king with graphics on it, now !!!


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## OmegaSlayer (Aug 17, 2021)

1 - I don't see Zakk not putting his mouth over this (in whichever way, but he'll address this situation)
2 - Dean without Dime and Mustaine guitar is a half sinking ship


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## BornToLooze (Aug 17, 2021)

You know...out of all the Dimebag guitars I used to see at GC and other places, I never did see the one that actually mattered.


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## sepsis311 (Aug 17, 2021)

The Mirror said:


> You got some points there, but are you questioning that Dime ever played his actual signature model (which of course he didn't) or if he ever played Dean guitars?
> 
> The latter would be wrong as Dime loved the Dean ML (many pictures of him playing original Dean MLs) and his Washburn Signature is basically a direct copy of it since he couldn't get a signature deal directly with Dean as they were de-facto not existent for the exact time when Pantera started to become huge.
> 
> Him getting a signature deal with the new founded Dean Guitars in '04 (unfortunately just a month before his death) was probably a dream come true for him.


I believe it said she was going to look at another company, and Dean said "go ahead" or something to that effect. Other than Washburn, I mean, what are her choices? He's known for Dean and Washburn.


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## LostTheTone (Aug 17, 2021)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Would Dime models sell that well in 2021?
> 
> Superstrats came back with home recording and now with everyone in their bedroom and homes I don’t see pointed guitars being nearly as popular anymore.



Pointed guitars will always be amazing. But I don't think the problem is about pointyness, it's that the Dimebag shape isn't actually a very playable shape and no-one would ever have bought it if Dimebag hadn't played them. Pantera and Dimebag will always be a big deal for metalheads, but... We are kinda at a point now where people buy Rhoads Vs from Jackson and genuinely don't know why it's called that. That's just what that shape is called. If you click onto their artists page, Rhoads is on page 3, and he isn't even the first person pictured with a Rhoads V. 

What I'm saying is that while Dimebag has his place in history assured, the association between him and the shape gets looser and looser over time. Even if I were a huge Dimebag fan, I wouldn't buy a Dime guitar. I have met loads of people who have them, and they are cool enough, especially Ola's collection of them. But it's been done, you know? Same way how in my mind Mick Thomason play a BC Rich Warlock, but in reality he plays kinda boring Jackson Soloists and BC Rich haven't made his signature in a decade. Because, honestly, who'd be seen with a Warlock these days? It's been done.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 17, 2021)

sepsis311 said:


> I believe it said she was going to look at another company, and Dean said "go ahead" or something to that effect. Other than Washburn, I mean, what are her choices? He's known for Dean and Washburn.



Getting ownership of the shapes and trying to start their own brand. I feel like her quoting "Dime Guitars" is her hinting at a self made brand 
Making your own brand is all the rage these days.


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## manu80 (Aug 17, 2021)

curious to see dimebag speaking about this in his next video. Questions will rain for him !!!


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## Mathemagician (Aug 17, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> You know...out of all the Dimebag guitars I used to see at GC and other places, I never did see the one that actually mattered.



Literally the only one I remember seeing the guy play in images/footage. I’m not a Pantera fan but even I think this one is neat.


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## LostTheTone (Aug 17, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Getting ownership of the shapes and trying to start their own brand. I feel like her quoting "Dime Guitars" is her hinting at a self made brand
> Making your own brand is all the rage these days.



Dime Guitars could make their own line of gig bags and call them "Dime Bags".


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 17, 2021)

LostTheTone said:


> Pointed guitars will always be amazing. But I don't think the problem is about pointyness, it's that the Dimebag shape isn't actually a very playable shape and no-one would ever have bought it if Dimebag hadn't played them. Pantera and Dimebag will always be a big deal for metalheads, but... We are kinda at a point now where people buy Rhoads Vs from Jackson and genuinely don't know why it's called that. That's just what that shape is called. If you click onto their artists page, Rhoads is on page 3, and he isn't even the first person pictured with a Rhoads V.
> 
> What I'm saying is that while Dimebag has his place in history assured, the association between him and the shape gets looser and looser over time. Even if I were a huge Dimebag fan, I wouldn't buy a Dime guitar. I have met loads of people who have them, and they are cool enough, especially Ola's collection of them. But it's been done, you know? Same way how in my mind Mick Thomason play a BC Rich Warlock, but in reality he plays kinda boring Jackson Soloists and BC Rich haven't made his signature in a decade. Because, honestly, who'd be seen with a Warlock these days? It's been done.



You know the ML was a shape that people liked before Dime, right? The main reason I stayed away from MLs and Dean was because of Dime fanbois. I ended up playing them because of how comfortable they are. I literally didn't know guitars could be that comfortable until I tried one and realized I'd been playing the wrong guitars the whole time. The shape of it makes the thing very playable. I don't even like Dean as a company but they're the only game in town for the shape I play so I'm stuck. The second ESP makes one I'm jumping ship.

Mick jumps from company to company and is a gear whore. Remember that Ibanez line he had of wacky shapes? I wouldn't really use him as an example as he's likely to get a wild hair and go land another signature with someone else.


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## straymond (Aug 17, 2021)

Response from Dean's CEO

https://metalinjection.net/news/dea...less-accusations-from-dimebag-darrells-estate


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## LostTheTone (Aug 17, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> You know the ML was a shape that people liked before Dime, right?



That's my point though - The association between Dimebag and the guitar shape changes over time. Right now we still really associate him with that shape, but people don't want to copy him. When it becomes "just another shape" then it'll become neutral and people will buy them again. When Dimebag was in vogue people wanted them even though they are legitimately quite uncomfortable to play. 

Flying Vs and Explorers were originally made in the 60s, but they became heavy metal associated as "over the top", then went in and out of vogue, then settled down enough so that really anyone in the scene can play a V today. Same deal for the ML, but it hasn't come back around now.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 17, 2021)

LostTheTone said:


> That's my point though - The association between Dimebag and the guitar shape changes over time. Right now we still really associate him with that shape, but people don't want to copy him. When it becomes "just another shape" then it'll become neutral and people will buy them again. When Dimebag was in vogue people wanted them even though they are legitimately quite uncomfortable to play.
> 
> Flying Vs and Explorers were originally made in the 60s, but they became heavy metal associated as "over the top", then went in and out of vogue, then settled down enough so that really anyone in the scene can play a V today. Same deal for the ML, but it hasn't come back around now.



They aren't any more uncomfortable to play than any other guitar....the shape actually helps if you're sitting down because you can play both classical and between the leg style. Standing it's no more uncomfortable than a V would be.


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## Bdtunn (Aug 17, 2021)

Baseless statement, more like guitarless statement, and good night folks….


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 17, 2021)

She got future endeavor'd. Lmao

Next Evan will say, "I didn't screw Rita, Rita screwed Rita!"


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 17, 2021)

Also, sorry Rita, but he is not in the "delebrity" wing that, say, Elvis resides. You can't milk his name for 50+ years and make millions a year.


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## BornToLooze (Aug 17, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The second ESP makes one I'm jumping ship.



ESP and Charvel already makes a better ML.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 17, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> ESP and Charvel already makes a better ML.
> 
> View attachment 96837


That's what an ML would look like as Lt. Dan from Forest Gump.

No thanks. I want the full shape..not the war ridden amputee version


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## MrWulf (Aug 18, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> She got future endeavor'd. Lmao
> 
> Next Evan will say, "I didn't screw Rita, Rita screwed Rita!"



I love how the phrase future endeavored is now common parlance for getting fired.

God bless the WWE, because they are about to enter the dark age now that Vince is running the company to the ground.


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## BornToLooze (Aug 18, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> That's what an ML would look like as Lt. Dan from Forest Gump.
> 
> No thanks. I want the full shape..not the war ridden amputee version



Lt. Dan...you've got magic licks.


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## manu80 (Aug 18, 2021)

manu80 said:


> curious to see dimebag speaking about this in his next video. Questions will rain for him !!!



Sorry I meant OLA !!!!!


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 18, 2021)

manu80 said:


> Sorry I meant OLA !!!!!


I found it funny. I actually WOULD like to see Dime talk about it


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## manu80 (Aug 18, 2021)

he would roll in his grave...but where's there's money, there's no more friend or family sometimes.... I'm just faraid that she ruins his legacy in a way...
I agree with all that's up there. We're getting old and not that much interested in Dime's sig anymore. New generation coming up, new favorite players...so less sale...Would have been the same with mustaine I'm sure.... And stupidly, mustaine is jackson, and Dime's Washburn....


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 18, 2021)

If she was smart she'd do something to keep his name alive to keep selling guitars. Do an annual DimeFest or something. Book a bunch of redneck metal bands, make it all about his legacy and have a booth where you can try out and order a guitar.

Pantera ain't done shit in forever. Every day that goes buy buries them from the eyes of public consciousness even more


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 18, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> If she was smart she'd do something to keep his name alive to keep selling guitars. Do an annual DimeFest or something. Book a bunch of redneck metal bands, make it all about his legacy and have a booth where you can try out and order a guitar.
> 
> Pantera ain't done shit in forever. Every day that goes buy buries them from the eyes of public consciousness even more



Before the pandemic they did actually do an annual show called Dimebash. You know, the show where Phil did the Nazi salute and yelled "WHITE POWER!!!!!" only a few years agon


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 18, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Before the pandemic they did actually do an annual show called Dimebash. You know, the show where Phil did the Nazi salute and yelled "WHITE POWER!!!!!" only a few years agon


Ugh....figures. It's a severe injustice that Dime and Vinny are dead yet that mush brained fuck nugget is still roaming around and doing things


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## ArtDecade (Aug 18, 2021)

Are younger cats still into Pantera? The whole groove metal thing seems to be made up 40 year olds and I don't see a lot of younger bands embracing that sound. Dime will always be a legend in metal circles, but I don't think his music is a right of passage for metal guitarists. I'm willing to be wrong. Just my opinion and all that jazz.


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## NotDonVito (Aug 18, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Are younger cats still into Pantera? The whole groove metal thing seems to be made up 40 year olds and I don't see a lot of younger bands embracing that sound. Dime will always be a legend in metal circles, but I don't think his music is a right of passage for metal guitarists. I'm willing to be wrong. Just my opinion and all that jazz.


I'm 26 and I think my camp knows Dime because we started playing guitar during the proceeding years of Dime's death and Dean's aggressive campaigns using his namesake. I had a Dean Dime model in 2009, even installed a Bill Lawrence pickup, which was completely pointless as the Dean stock rail pickup was an accurate copy of it. I completely fell for all of it.


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## OmegaSlayer (Aug 18, 2021)

Other 2 cents

-I found totally unprofessional from Dean side to throw the "the lady has been naughty as soon as the last Abbot died", I expect these manners from artists and their heirs, not from someone who runs an International brand

-While we always bash the mothers/brothers/sisters/wives/kids of a late artist for being greedy, I think that the artist himself would have liked that his loved ones would get the most from their legacy
At least, if I die, I want my mother and my fiance to exploit the shit of whatever I've done and possibly make the best life they can with it (and that's why some people sign life insurances, I've done that, and here in Italy is a really uncommon practice)


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## ArtDecade (Aug 18, 2021)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Other 2 cents
> 
> -I found totally unprofessional from Dean side to throw the "the lady has been naughty as soon as the last Abbot died", I expect these manners from artists and their heirs, not from someone who runs an International brand
> 
> ...



To be fair, Dean and Rita are both exploiting legacies and trying to wrench every dime they can out of it. That's just business in a nutshell. We are also talking about 20 year old contracts that were originally put in place by people that are no longer alive - on both sides. It was just a matter of time for it to get contentious when the remaining parties _lawyered up_. I like Dime, but I can't imagine that they are moving that many signature units in 2021 and that means less money in the pockets of Dean or Rita. Everyone knows that it is time to go their separate ways and Rita is just making sure there is no money left on the table on the way out the door.


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## manu80 (Aug 18, 2021)

no offense , but you can exploit the shit of a name, if people don't care anymore about it, there's nothing you can do.... As said above, Dime's name and legacy is not at the top of the core market right now.
Not even sure that the line of amp they did with his name worked well...good or not.
I love Rhoads, but i don't care of a pedal or an amp bearing his name. Where are we with wylde audio ? thought they were gonna be amps and all that....Die hard fans of an artist ain't gonna pay a whole company


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## ArtDecade (Aug 18, 2021)

The worst case scenario is that Rita decides to launch a vanity line (like Wylde Guitars) and it folds leaving Dime's legacy in a nowhere-land. You might not make a lot of cash over at Dean, but at least there is some security going forward.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 18, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> The worst case scenario is that Rita decides to launch a vanity line (like Wylde Guitars) and it folds leaving Dime's legacy in a nowhere-land. You might not make a lot of cash over at Dean, but at least there is some security going forward.



Like I said I still think that the Dime trust and Dean Zelinsky are gonna work together. Everyone keeps saying Solar (Ola's a Pantera fanboy) and Schecter (Zakk Wilde) but Dean Zelinsky's been a friend of Dime since the beginning and possibly knows the family well enough to get something started with his brandm


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## ArtDecade (Aug 18, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like I said I still think that the Dime trust and Dean Zelinsky are gonna work together. Everyone keeps saying Solar (Ola's a Pantera fanboy) and Schecter (Zakk Wilde) but Dean Zelinsky's been a friend of Dime since the beginning and possibly knows the family well enough to get something started with his brandm



It would make sense that Dean Z will want to be involved, but I'd imagine that is a huge step back for the Dimebag brand. To be fair, you rarely see a large inventory of Dean guitars in most stores but Dean Z is even more obscure. Solar and Schecter would provide loads more marketing potential. Given a choice, I think Dean and Rita should try to find a way forward together.


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## Matt08642 (Aug 18, 2021)

Are both parties going to pretend 15 years of shitty razorbacks with random edgy graphics on them didn't tarnish the legacy just a smidge?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 18, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> Are both parties going to pretend 15 years of shitty razorbacks with random edgy graphics on them didn't tarnish the legacy just a smidge?


Facts be factin'


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## philkilla (Aug 18, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> Are both parties going to pretend 15 years of shitty razorbacks with random edgy graphics on them didn't tarnish the legacy just a smidge?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 18, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> It would make sense that Dean Z will want to be involved, but I'd imagine that is a huge step back for the Dimebag brand. To be fair, you rarely see a large inventory of Dean guitars in most stores but Dean Z is even more obscure. Solar and Schecter would provide loads more marketing potential. Given a choice, I think Dean and Rita should try to find a way forward together.



Yeah Dean Z's brand is obscure, but it just makes sens eto me since she's actually familiar with him. But FWIW I can see Schecter kindasorta working. They got a lot of reach and wouldn't seem to have a problem working with them. Hell, one of the main finish dudes in the CS is a former Washburn guy that worked with Dimebag, and Syn Gates is apparently a huge Pantera/Dimebag fan. 



Matt08642 said:


> Are both parties going to pretend 15 years of shitty razorbacks with random edgy graphics on them didn't tarnish the legacy just a smidge?


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## manu80 (Aug 18, 2021)

If you’re right i wonder how they’ll deal with headstock shape etc...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 18, 2021)

manu80 said:


> If you’re right i wonder how they’ll deal with headstock shape etc...



Somehow get a new one or get the trademark for the Washburn one like she SEEMS to be doing with the Washburn Dime shape?


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 18, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah Dean Z's brand is obscure, but it just makes sens eto me since she's actually familiar with him. But FWIW I can see Schecter kindasorta working. They got a lot of reach and wouldn't seem to have a problem working with them. Hell, one of the main finish dudes in the CS is a former Washburn guy that worked with Dimebag, and Syn Gates is apparently a huge Pantera/Dimebag fan.



You're still coming at this from the perspective that this is about guitars, or even Dime, when really it's just about money and specifically, the money that Rita can get her hands on since she's back in the fold after being in exile for years. 

Whatever offers her the biggest payout will get the IP, that's it. No one cares about "what Dime would have wanted" or headstocks or shit like that.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 18, 2021)

Does anyone understand how she got back in the fold?


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## straymond (Aug 18, 2021)

"Dean Guitars CEO Accuses Rita Haney Of Trying To Incite "Death Threats" With "Slanderous" Comments In Dimebag Lawsuit"

https://metalinjection.net/news/dea...s-with-slanderous-comments-in-dimebag-lawsuit


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## OmegaSlayer (Aug 18, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> To be fair, Dean and Rita are both exploiting legacies and trying to wrench every dime they can out of it. That's just business in a nutshell. We are also talking about 20 year old contracts that were originally put in place by people that are no longer alive - on both sides. It was just a matter of time for it to get contentious when the remaining parties _lawyered up_. I like Dime, but I can't imagine that they are moving that many signature units in 2021 and that means less money in the pockets of Dean or Rita. Everyone knows that it is time to go their separate ways and Rita is just making sure there is no money left on the table on the way out the door.


Yeah, but I expect 2 different comunications from someone that finds herself in a business because one of her loved ones died, and a company that workks internationally
Dean is reaching Max Cavalera's levels...


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## Demiurge (Aug 18, 2021)

straymond said:


> "Dean Guitars CEO Accuses Rita Haney Of Trying To Incite "Death Threats" With "Slanderous" Comments In Dimebag Lawsuit"



Those are some true colors showing through right there, implying that Dimebag's fanbase is such that their reaction to the suit would be death threats right-away. Bonus tactfulness points given the circumstances of his death.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 18, 2021)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Yeah, but I expect 2 different comunications from someone that finds herself in a business because one of her loved ones died, and a company that workks internationally
> Dean is reaching Max Cavalera's levels...



Where did you see the Dean communication? The only thing that I saw was from Rita about what she said they said - as opposed to an actual quote.


----------



## Chris Bowsman (Aug 18, 2021)

Huge Pantera fan, grew up with them as a very early influence. Getting to see Phil's band do "A Vulgar Display of Pantera" immediately pre-Covid was pretty incredible.

From strictly a fan point, I'd love to see Ola get the rights to make Solar Dimes. His guitars cover most price points, but wisely avoid the ultra cheap stuff. He's obviously in the business of selling guitars, but I also think he'd put out a pretty killer ML style and keep the quality good.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 18, 2021)

Semi-related but

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/dimebag-guitar-designer-buddy-blaze-webster-dies/

Buddy Blaze died. :/

The hits keep coming.


----------



## VGK17 (Aug 18, 2021)

Chris Bowsman said:


> Huge Pantera fan, grew up with them as a very early influence. Getting to see Phil's band do "A Vulgar Display of Pantera" immediately pre-Covid was pretty incredible.
> 
> From strictly a fan point, I'd love to see Ola get the rights to make Solar Dimes. His guitars cover most price points, but wisely avoid the ultra cheap stuff. He's obviously in the business of selling guitars, but I also think he'd put out a pretty killer ML style and keep the quality good.


Also a huge Pantera fan here but I think they should just retire the Dime signatures entirely, and not because I already have one. I know it won't happen though.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 18, 2021)

I don't see this working out well, and will likely be a disaster for Rita.


----------



## Chris Bowsman (Aug 18, 2021)

VGK17 said:


> Also a huge Pantera fan here but I think they should just retire the Dime signatures entirely, and not because I already have one. I know it won't happen though.



That would also be a good move. Since your last statement is accurate, I’d rather see them land with someone who does it justice.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 18, 2021)

Chris Bowsman said:


> That would also be a good move. Since your last statement is accurate, I’d rather see them land with someone who does it justice.



I think the Deans have been just fine. 

Everyone sort of piles on them for quality, but just about all of the imports I've worked on over the years have been perfectly serviceable for their respective price points. Certainly on par with sub-Deluxe LTD, better Standard Ibanez, PRS SE, etc. and definitely better and more consistent than stuff like Sterling and Legator, which tend to get a bit more love. 

The USA stuff has pretty much always been nice, expensive, but nice. 

Everyone is acting like Dime (his chosen name was fucking _Dimebag_) was some super classy, understated dude, like some metal Sean Connery, when he was constantly inebriated, strip club owning, goatee dyeing, rebel flag waving, KISS worshipping, wild man. Which was great, but have you guys seen the guitars he played when he was alive? 

Nah, if anything Dean kept it real.


----------



## Chris Bowsman (Aug 18, 2021)

^ You're right. I retract my statement, lol.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 18, 2021)

Dime designed the Razorbolt


*THE RAZORBOLT





*


----------



## spudmunkey (Aug 18, 2021)




----------



## Bdtunn (Aug 18, 2021)

They need to take the designs to EVH, I can see dime resting easy with that orrrrrrrrrrr Dean z.


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## Vyn (Aug 18, 2021)

The saddest thing about this whole mess is that the ignorant, die-hard Dimebag fans are threating violence on all of Dean's socials. I get being upset at the proceedings however it's a guitar company for fuck's sake.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 18, 2021)

Demiurge said:


> Those are some true colors showing through right there, implying that Dimebag's fanbase is such that their reaction to the suit would be death threats right-away. Bonus tactfulness points given the circumstances of his death.



It's the internet. I can imagine death threats actually happened.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 18, 2021)

Rita did threaten to paint them poorly to fans and try to get public opinion against Dean and Armadillo, it's spelled out (accurately too) plainly in the complaint.


----------



## VGK17 (Aug 18, 2021)

Vyn said:


> The saddest thing about this whole mess is that the ignorant, die-hard Dimebag fans are threating violence on all of Dean's socials. I get being upset at the proceedings however it's a guitar company for fuck's sake.


No, I wouldn't call those scumbag trolls the diehard Dime fans.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 19, 2021)

Whomever has a small collection of pre lawsuit Dean Dime MLs and Razorbacks is probably going to make a decent amount on the used market because "collectors item." Whomever made that a thing in the first place (starting, I believe, with baseball cards, and spreading to comics, guitar gear, cars, etc.) should spend their eternal afterlife getting kicked in the shins repeatedly. I don't believe in punishment via hardcore violence (well, expect for really duplicitous people), but rather the tortuous minor violence that is repeated shin kicks.


----------



## OmegaSlayer (Aug 19, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Where did you see the Dean communication? The only thing that I saw was from Rita about what she said they said - as opposed to an actual quote.


----------



## Alex79 (Aug 19, 2021)

I just googled Rita Haney and what she looks like ... I guess I shouldn’t have. No way I can stay unbiased now.

Maybe she can Five Finger Death Punch to run Dime Sigs in the future with whatever BC Rich has become. It seems like the same demographic of fans anyway...


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 19, 2021)

Vyn said:


> The saddest thing about this whole mess is that the ignorant, die-hard Dimebag fans are threating violence on all of Dean's socials. I get being upset at the proceedings however it's a guitar company for fuck's sake.


Is anyone surprised? We've all met the typical Dime fan. They're as bad as Juggalos. Hell I'd argue they're worse. I keep seeing them say that the Dean CEO called Dime irrelevant. I can't find proof of that anywhere, although if he did he'd be right. In the modern age of metal ain't nobody checking for Dime.


----------



## Louis Cypher (Aug 19, 2021)

As a few have said its really sad its all coming to this, but its really just every vulture trying to pick the bones clean of the last bits of money that can be made from someones legacy. I was a huge Pantera fan at the time, Skid Row turned me on to Cowboys from Hell and I loved every album they did after that and it is sad that perhaps Dimebag hasn't got that Randy Rhoads kinda level of still being a relevant guitarist and inspiration to new players, but plenty of fcuking amazing players who have sadly passed away never got anywhere near Dime's relevance after his death (Criss Oliva for example), some point that carcass is gonna be bare


----------



## Millul (Aug 19, 2021)

Alex79 said:


> I just googled Rita Haney and what she looks like ... I guess I shouldn’t have. No way I can stay unbiased now.
> 
> Maybe she can Five Finger Death Punch to run Dime Sigs in the future with whatever BC Rich has become. It seems like the same demographic of fans anyway...



You mean, that subtle "Dresden Monarchs fan from Bautzen" look?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 19, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Is anyone surprised? We've all met the typical Dime fan. They're as bad as Juggalos. Hell I'd argue they're worse. I keep seeing them say that the Dean CEO called Dime irrelevant. I can't find proof of that anywhere, although if he did he'd be right. In the modern age of metal ain't nobody checking for Dime.



I mean even if he did say that, I'd trust Dean's word since they're the ones with the sales figures.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 19, 2021)

OmegaSlayer said:


> -I found totally unprofessional from Dean side to throw the *"the lady has been naughty as soon as the last Abbot died"*, I expect these manners from artists and their heirs, not from someone who runs an International brand



You got that out of the below?



OmegaSlayer said:


>



I think you are really reaching. Dean's take is pretty tame.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 19, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Dean's take is pretty tame.



It's also based in fact, Rita was not in charge of the trust for many years, Vinny and Jerry were, but as of the end of last year Rita got control (Vinny died in 2018 and Jerry is almost 80 and starring down his own mortality), she basically just waited out everyone else.


----------



## Andromalia (Aug 19, 2021)

AFAIK they weren't married, is she entitled to anything to begin with ?


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 19, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Dime designed the Razorbolt
> 
> 
> *THE RAZORBOLT
> ...


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 19, 2021)

Andromalia said:


> AFAIK they weren't married, is she entitled to anything to begin with ?



No. They weren't married and Dime had no will, formal or otherwise. She was his "personal assistant" on paper, and the Abbott family kept her in the loop for awhile.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 19, 2021)

Andromalia said:


> AFAIK they weren't married, is she entitled to anything to begin with ?



Vinny divided his estate among his friends and crew, but left his brother's estate to Rita. I guess Vin was feeling generous.


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## bostjan (Aug 19, 2021)

I feel even more bad for Jerry in light of this. Having lost his sons with no grandchildren and now this Dean-Rita drama...


----------



## DIM3S0UL (Aug 19, 2021)

Even as a diehard Dimebag fan im siding with Dean here. 
As a brand they have to cater towards modern players and a userbase who actually buys their guitars. While i would defend the ML till death its definitely not a popular shape nowadays. (doesnt matter anyways since they wont get the ML out of this, just the Razorback and Stealth so the original shape will stay with Dean) There is simply no chance that they make a lot of money by selling the guitars on their own. Thats delusional.

The rest was already mentoined here = you just cant blame Rubinson for running Dean like a profit oriented guitar company.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 19, 2021)

I'd play a Michael Schenker ML.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 19, 2021)

The razorback is such an awful shape. The stealth I really like, as well as the ML although I preferred the Washburn style. For me, I'd want whoever builds the next Dime guitars to have a USA-built option which Solar obviously wouldn't have. I currently have a USA Dean Stealth on order which I'm guessing now won't be fulfilled as it had a 2022 ETA.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 19, 2021)

The main thing I disliked about the ML and Washburn equivalents were the headstocks. I'd prefer a Gibson style V or Explorer type headstock.

Or, you know, just an ESP Star, sharp or rounded, standard or slightly elongated like an Alexi.


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## wheresthefbomb (Aug 19, 2021)

More like _Donebag_ AM I RIGHT?

I'll see myself out.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 19, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> The main thing I disliked about the ML and Washburn equivalents were the headstocks. I'd prefer a Gibson style V or Explorer type headstock.
> 
> Or, you know, just an ESP Star, sharp or rounded, standard or slightly elongated like an Alexi.



The Dean Primal Concrete Sledge had a cool headstock. The paint job was kind of awful, though.


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## Emperoff (Aug 19, 2021)

Sorry Dean, but the coolest Dime-designed guitar was actually a Washburn.







Deal with it!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 19, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Sorry Dean, but the coolest Dime-designed guitar was actually a Washburn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hot take, but correct take. Always wanted one of those. 

Speaking of that, didn't know this but before he became an ESP endorsee, Gus G's main guitar was apparently a Culprit. 



...I will admit, if they do re-release the Culprit, it'd be VERY tempting to get one.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 19, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Hot take, but correct take. Always wanted one of those.
> 
> Speaking of that, didn't know this but before he became an ESP endorsee, Gus G's main guitar was apparently a Culprit.
> 
> ...




Makes sense. Gus G signature is also star-shaped but obviously ESP couldn't copy a Dime design without getting into trouble.

I'd own one if they didn't have small frets. I can deal with rosewood, dot inlays, funky headstocks and other SSO problems... But not small frets! I've even considered getting a replica body for a 7-string.


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## Dooky (Aug 19, 2021)

I'm a huge Dime fan and have been since the mid 90's. But I own over 20 guitars and not one of them is a Dime guitar - which says something about how many they would've been selling recently (if a Dime fan from back in the day never bought one, then how many people are buying them now?).
The ML shape just isn't for me and I felt like if I played one on stage I'd just look a bit too much like a Dime wannabe.
I quite liked the Dime Razorback V's that were available for a time, but they stopped making those.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 20, 2021)

I have a feeling that Ola doesn't want to deal with Rita's ass and he doesn't want to make Dime guitars. It'd be ruining his love of it so he won't


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## manu80 (Aug 20, 2021)

To me the iconic one is the Slime Washburn . Saw some 333 pop sometimes, very different tops from one to another.
STealth/2ST was cool. He played on that shape on Damage plan concert in Paris back then.
And yes I think Ola would be wise to stay away from this mess ;-)


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## Louis Cypher (Aug 20, 2021)

Timely Ola post for Dimebags bday. Washburn Dime content


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## Ataraxia2320 (Aug 20, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Sorry Dean, but the coolest Dime-designed guitar was actually a Washburn.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My buddy has a cp2000. I fucking love that guitar and I always try to buy it from him.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 20, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I'd play a Michael Schenker ML.



Schenker for the win!


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## bloodocean (Aug 20, 2021)

Just want to take a moment to plug my USA Slime ML purchase a couple years ago:






Absolute unit of a guitar. Dime related but not toooooo juggalo’d. At least there’s no all-caps “DIME” on the headstock. It’s a jagged booger-green flame top after all, I know it’s a dime guitar.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 20, 2021)

The things that kill that particular slime for me are the dot inlays and black headstock.

The washburns with the matched paint pointy headstock are the best IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to own one of those. Just pointing out the two things that always make me look twice.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 21, 2021)

Imma just say it. Dime's guitars were ugly as fuck and every guitar was ruined with a terrible finish or graphic...and the Washburns were lopsided which irked me.

Dean is better off without having to make those nightmares. The Razorback was what got me into Deans, not gon lie..but I refused to buy one because of the hideous look.

Now Dean can make MLs that look like they've got some sense. Let Rita take that tacky ass hillbilly nonsense to another company so we don't have to see it anymore


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## lewis (Aug 21, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Imma just say it. Dime's guitars were ugly as fuck and every guitar was ruined with a terrible finish or graphic...and the Washburns were lopsided which irked me.
> 
> Dean is better off without having to make those nightmares. The Razorback was what got me into Deans, not gon lie..but I refused to buy one because of the hideous look.
> 
> Now Dean can make MLs that look like they've got some sense. Let Rita take that tacky ass hillbilly nonsense to another company so we don't have to see it anymore



I get what you're saying but it's all in the marketing. Do you think if Ola for example did get the contract to make solar Dime guitars, the marketing, visuals and style would scream Hillbilly mullets meth lab RVs?

The answer would unequivocally be no, no it would not.
For me it's more what Dean as a whole represent, its not just specific to Their dime range.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 21, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Imma just say it. Dime's guitars were ugly as fuck and every guitar was ruined with a terrible finish or graphic...and the Washburns were lopsided which irked me. Dean is better off without having to make those nightmares.



The problem would be that the various Dimebag guitars fit within Dean's existing design language, which was mostly tacky across the board in the mid-2000s and 2010s. Which isn't to say they didn't have some classic designs, but Dean was more responsible for those guitars than Dimebag's napkin sketches ever were. 



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Speaking of that, didn't know this but before he became an ESP endorsee, Gus G's main guitar was apparently a Culprit.



I discovered Firewind around 2005, which is the same year Gus G signed with ESP. I definitely remember seeing some clips with the Culprit but the real surprise for me was learning that Gus has been with ESP for basically the entire time I was aware of his music!


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## ArtDecade (Aug 21, 2021)

lewis said:


> Do you think if Ola for example did get the contract to make solar Dime guitars, the marketing, visuals and style would scream *Hillbilly mullets meth lab RVs*?



Rita is still dressing like she is side stage at a Pantera concert circa 1994. And now she has complete control. It will be exactly as shitty and tacky as you described.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 21, 2021)

Sermo Lupi said:


> Dean was more responsible for those guitars than Dimebag's napkin sketches ever were.



His Washburn stuff was equally tasteless (stripper girl camo, rebel flag, tacky flames, cutout flames, lightning bolts over all kinds of bursts, tacky "horror" graphics, etc.), so I'd bet that it was more Dime than anything else since it was pretty much the same guitars no matter which company he was with at the time.


----------



## mmr007 (Aug 21, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Imma just say it. Dime's guitars were ugly as fuck and every guitar was ruined with a terrible finish or graphic...and the Washburns were lopsided which irked me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## lewis (Aug 21, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Rita is still dressing like she is side stage at a Pantera concert circa 1994. And now she has complete control. It will be exactly as shitty and tacky as you described.


What's her fashion got to do with marketing ffs?

Deans whole style is out of touch, cheese, dad rocker vibes.
It's not exclusive to Dime.

Look at the difference In website design, style and marketing between them:




Tacky /\
Modern \/







Tacky /\
Modern \/






If anyone can make Dimebag guitars look sick asf and current in 2021, it's companies like Solar.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 21, 2021)

Solar is all cheap indo crap. Imho there needs to be a USA high end model that actually looks like a model dime played such as the bolt and slime. The rest of the crappy graphics can be used on the imports but I don’t see a point if there isn’t a top shelf model of a guitar we actually saw him play.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 21, 2021)

lewis said:


> What's her fashion got to do with marketing ffs?



It has everything to do with it. She still thinks it is 1994 and Pantera is riding high. Do you think that if she moved the operation to Solar that all the Confederate, Mud-Flap, Wild Flames, and Slime is suddenly going to disappear? She is a card carrying member of the *Tacky Guitar Club For Dimebags* and that will never change. She will maintain that legacy and to think it was all Dean's call is ignorant. It was what Dime wanted at the time and Rita hasn't evolved since.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 21, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> His Washburn stuff was equally tasteless (stripper girl camo, rebel flag, tacky flames, cutout flames, lightning bolts over all kinds of bursts, tacky "horror" graphics, etc.), so I'd bet that it was more Dime than anything else since it was pretty much the same guitars no matter which company he was with at the time.



_Equally_ tasteless? That's a high bar to clear. I won't sit here and argue Dimebag had good taste for anything but his own music. Yet I think he was attracted to Dean precisely because they made the kind of tacky guitars he had a soft spot for. The vast majority of the Washburns were orthodox by comparison even if a few (and seemingly rare) finishes were garish. 

Was Dimebag responsible for Deans like this, too?


----------



## mmr007 (Aug 21, 2021)

In fairness tho.....






...if I were Dean I would still rather have a sig guitar for dead artist with a confederate flag trucker stripper girl mud flap motiff on it than.... well....other options

Anyway...let me put my dead nazi guitar back in its case so I can finish my thought.....

Why are we talking about Solar and resurrecting Dime models? Is it just because Ola's a fan? Has there been actual talk between Ola and Rita that is documented? Why would somebody buy a Solar Dime? That's not a thing. That makes as much sense Ibanez releasing a Van Halen Frankenstrat RG or Aristedes releasing a Jimmy Hendrix tribute. You can love Van Halen the artist and love Ibanez the guitar manufacturer but do you really want to see two things with no sensical association married?

I can see a limited run of anything, I suppose, working as a curiosity for investment as a collector, but a Dime related line of guitars is not sustainable for a company that has NO association other than their owner and CEO is a fan.

I applaud Dean for (however it ended) ending the relationship with the Dime estate. I will think more highly of Dean moving forward because my historical negative impression of them can best be summed up by someone commenting on this forum years ago and it stuck with me...that Dean is devoid of ideas other than to make money off Dime's corpse by churning out one tacky tribute sig after another. Crass but accurate I believe.

It would be nice to see the relationship repaired for one model only....not a fleet of sig guitar or something that Rita can retire off the royalties. make a USA and important version of the Dean from Hell for the Pantera fan that is still out there and that's it.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 21, 2021)

mmr007 said:


> Why are we talking about Solar and resurrecting Dime models? Is it just because Ola's a fan? Has there been actual talk between Ola and Rita that is documented? Why would somebody buy a Solar Dime? That's not a thing. That makes as much sense Ibanez releasing a Van Halen Frankenstrat RG or Aristedes releasing a Jimmy Hendrix tribute. You can love Van Halen the artist and love Ibanez the guitar manufacturer but do you really want to see two things with no sensical association married?


Not an RG, but I bet an Ibanez EVH Destroyer would sell decently.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 21, 2021)

Sermo Lupi said:


> _Equally_ tasteless? That's a high bar to clear. I won't sit here and argue Dimebag had good taste for anything but his own music. Yet I think he was attracted to Dean precisely because they made the kind of tacky guitars he had a soft spot for. The vast majority of the Washburns were orthodox by comparison even if a few (and seemingly rare) finishes were garish.
> 
> Was Dimebag responsible for Deans like this, too?



So Dean lets artists do whatever, that's the only point you're really driving here. 

Washburn kept Dime on a shorter leash...maybe. Though it's revisionist to say that all he played were monochrome Stealths and Slimes while at Washburn. 

But it's not like Dean made Dime tacky, Dime made Dean tacky. 

Can you point to anything other than artist signature models as far as tasteless Deans go?


----------



## DIM3S0UL (Aug 21, 2021)

Sermo Lupi said:


> Was Dimebag responsible for Deans like this, too?



I mean come on, you literally choose one of the most wacky ones lmao. If i remember correctly the MAB always had single colour options available, and even the entry models looked very tame with good looking finishes =





Edit = also if you look at the site currently its very hard to find graphic style finishes on the guitars. Definitely a sign of the new direction they take. 
The Far Beyond Driven ML which is a Dime sig doesnt even have the related logo on it anymore.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 21, 2021)

lewis said:


> I get what you're saying but it's all in the marketing. Do you think if Ola for example did get the contract to make solar Dime guitars, the marketing, visuals and style would scream Hillbilly mullets meth lab RVs?
> 
> The answer would unequivocally be no, no it would not.
> For me it's more what Dean as a whole represent, its not just specific to Their dime range.



Dean catered to the hyuck-brained white trash wannabes because Dime was their star attraction. Since he hasn't been center stage they've pretty much kept the tacky shit for his guitars because that's what his fans like. Rita still looks like she should be a Firefly from Rob Zombie's movies so yeah she would wanna keep the formula she believes will make money. Obviously she doesn't have much in the way of business sense which is why this is all happening in the first place.

Dean made other models look like shit as a way to get Dime fans into their other models and into Dean as a company. They made their money off of Dimetards so they gave them options other than Dime's stuff. When his people stopped being the focus, they got a lot better

A non-Dime focused Dean has managed to do well for themselves. I like that direction


----------



## MrBouleDeBowling (Aug 21, 2021)

I like Dean. I think they're cool guitars. They don't get much love in the guitar community and I totally understand why. But when they do get things right, they're great playing instruments (at least in my experience). The best sounding guitar I ever owned was a Razorback V 255.

If parting ways with the Dime estate means they'll focus on making cooler looking ML's instead from now on, I'm all for it. Hell, I'm glad they lost Mustaine. They're finally doing something awesome with the new Vengeance V and the Zero now that they're no longer his signature models.


----------



## BigViolin (Aug 21, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> But it's not like Dean made Dime tacky, Dime made Dean tacky.



Fun times. Remember when Dean and Hamer were all double cremes and better Gibsons? I remember being blown away by the mash up designs like the caddy and ML while Norlin was...Norlin.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 21, 2021)

BigViolin said:


> Fun times. Remember when Dean and Hamer were all double cremes and better Gibsons? I remember being blown away by the mash up designs like the caddy and ML while Norlin was...Norlin.



Talk about memory lane. I was still hearing that in the 90's.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 21, 2021)

To be fair, US-made Dean and Hamers more than match for Gibson. Still.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 21, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> To be fair, US-made Dean and Hamers more than match for Gibson. Still.



Now I remembered that Hamer is gone.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 21, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> So Dean lets artists do whatever, that's the only point you're really driving here.



Not really--and I don't agree that the Dean artist signatures are primarily the vision of their endorsees if that's what you're implying with this statement. Stephen Jensen is the missing piece of that puzzle. More on that below.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Washburn kept Dime on a shorter leash...maybe. Though it's revisionist to say that all he played were monochrome Stealths and Slimes while at Washburn.
> 
> Can you point to anything other than artist signature models as far as tasteless Deans go?



I didn't say that's all that Dimebag played. Regardless, that seems to be the majority of what Washburn sold. Dimebolts, Slimes, Stealths, etc. seem to far outnumber the rarer, more tacky designs you mentioned.

As for Dean, many of the standard lines were rife with stereotypically tacky Dean designs. Just a few Vendettas for sake of example:



















DIM3S0UL said:


> I mean come on, you literally choose one of the most wacky ones lmao. If i remember correctly the MAB always had single colour options available



Dean differed from a lot of their competition by offering artist "lines" rather than guitars. Sometimes there was a plain Jane variant in addition to a slew of graphic-laden guitars.

Contrary to Max, I don't believe for a second that Dean let their endorsees "do whatever"--I think they solicited vague opinions from those artists and left it to their in-house designer to come up with a graphic that was characteristically "Dean". 

But don't take my word for it, let's listen to the chap in the flamed-out cowboy hat (around 1:45):



That's Stephen Jensen, the designer of most or all of Dean's guitar graphics (to my knowledge, anyway). As Rusty says in the interview, he was hands-on with every part of the prototyping process except for the designing of the graphic.

Here's an example of a non-Artist guitar Stephen Jensen designed in 2007. Does it look fundamentally different from any of the artist guitars below? For that matter do any of the artist guitar graphics look that different from each other?

If Jensen designed most of the graphics Dean produced back in the day, I have to assume that's why just about every Dean endorsee had multiple whacky graphics-laden guitars, all done in a similar style when in many cases those artists had bands with different aesthetics.

In other words, it's misleading say the artist guitars don't represent Dean's "true vision". They do. If anything, the artists were an excuse to hawk outlandish designs that Dean might've felt wouldn't sell without a name attached. They could iterate on the designs every few years and sell to collectors.

Dimebag was a particularly extreme example of how Dean used their endorsees but it doesn't surprise me a dead guitar hero got exploited more than others.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 21, 2021)

^ FFS. The guy from the Dream Theater thread escaped.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 21, 2021)

^ FFS, the guy who can't read continues to complain in another thread.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 21, 2021)

@Sermo Lupi can you point to a particular Dean Dime guitar that you feel Dime was not involved with the design of? 

We know the Slime, FBD, Flame, DFH, Cross, Plate, D-O-Flage, Dixie, various camo motifs, and a few others came over from Washburn. There are notes and interviews where he talks about the Razorback and Razorbolt. 

So that leaves what? Those Dime/Pantera tribute ones?


----------



## Randy (Aug 21, 2021)

Forgive me if I'm stating something that's already been brought up, but Dimebag Darrell died in 2004 and Dean/Rita had the Dime line locked into the aesthetic he was rocking like when a kid ODs and their parents leave their room like it was when they were alive for the rest of their lives.

I'm not even the world biggest Pantera/Dimebag fan but it's a disservice to his legacy that the line continued as a tacky time capsule to the nu metal era just because that's what Dean showed him before he was murdered. It's bad enough he died on stage at a Damageplan show. That would be like Paul Gilbert dying on stage at a Yellow Matter Custard gig and every signature from then on for the next 20 years is a hollow body.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 21, 2021)

Randy said:


> Forgive me if I'm stating something that's already been brought up, but Dimebag Darrell died in 2004 and Dean/Rita had the Dime line locked into the aesthetic he was rocking like when a kid ODs and their parents leave their room like it was when they were alive for the rest of their lives.
> 
> I'm not even the world biggest Pantera/Dimebag fan but it's a disservice to his legacy that the line continued as a tacky time capsule to the nu metal era just because that's what Dean showed him before he was murdered. It's bad enough he died on stage at a Damageplan show. That would be like Paul Gilbert dying on stage at a Yellow Matter Custard gig and every signature from then on for the next 20 years is a hollow body.



Yeah, the time capsule effect hits all guitarists who die before their contracts do.

But, I don't think Dime was going to "grow up" and start playing significantly different things. He'd played MLs with graphics since he was a teenager, and didn't seem to be slowing down as he was a stone's throw from 40. If anything things were getting even weirder with the Razorback.

Also, nu-metal? What about anything Dime did was nu-metal? I mean, maybe some Damageplan stuff, that was sort of watered down Pantera, but I don't think I've ever considered his music or aesthetic as such.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 21, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Also, nu-metal? What about anything Dime did was nu-metal? I mean, maybe some Damageplan stuff, that was sort of watered down Pantera, but I don't think I've ever considered his music or aesthetic as such.



I think he just meant that time frame in general, being 2004 and all.


----------



## Randy (Aug 21, 2021)

Yeah, Dime wasn't nu-metal but Dean and the rest of the guitar industry were pushing hard. I guess metalcore was also in-vogue, so if he died a year later you might have gotten a tribal graphic Razorback or something.

I bet if Dime was alive now, assuming someone like Gibson didn't steal him, he'd probably be playing more tasteful relic or flame top burst/fade MLs. Certainly not fuckin vinyl wrapped trash.


----------



## Randy (Aug 21, 2021)

Also, Vinnie Paul playing in that awful amalgamation of nu/Monster Energy/redneck metal Hellyeah his last several years on Earth doesn't necessarily give me the impression Dime would be light-year away from being associated with nu metal if he hadn't died. But I won't slander him with that.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 21, 2021)

Randy said:


> he'd probably be playing more tasteful relic or flame top burst/fade MLs. Certainly not fuckin vinyl wrapped trash.



That's been the lion's share of the Dean Dime stuff the last ten or so years, outside of staples like the DFH. Mostly Slimes and FBD and some more understated designs.

They hadn't really been hitting hard with graphics, outside of <$400 entry level stuff since like 2012.


----------



## goherpsNderp (Aug 21, 2021)

This all makes me feel a little icky for wanting to sell my Dean V that Dime and Vinnie signed during their Damageplan album release/listening party tour.

(Not selling it because of the news, but in spite of it. Times are tough and I need the money.)


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 21, 2021)

goherpsNderp said:


> This all makes me feel a little icky for wanting to sell my Dean V that Dime and Vinnie signed during their Damageplan album release/listening party tour.
> 
> (Not selling it because of the news, but in spite of it. Times are tough and I need the money.)


Shiiit. Sell that shit and cash in on the idiots. You'd be a fool not to.


----------



## works0fheart (Aug 22, 2021)

People here are really arguing over whether the tacky designs came from Dean or Dime? 

The answer is both. Sermo proved that by showing all the other wonky stuff they've made. 

Dean is based in Florida, Dime is from Texas. Neither of those states are known for having modest people. I'd know, I'm from one of them. We're obnoxious af.

And for the record, I love the tacky Dean designs. Yes, they haven't been relevant in a while, but what's relevant to guitar hobbyists only tends to stay that way for about 5 minutes anyways until it quits being circle-jerked then they suddenly hate it. 

Not going to weigh in on the actual topic because it's just a sad situation to even see Dime's legacy being tarnished right now when he's not around anymore.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 22, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> @Sermo Lupi can you point to a particular Dean Dime guitar that you feel Dime was not involved with the design of?
> 
> We know the Slime, FBD, Flame, DFH, Cross, Plate, D-O-Flage, Dixie, various camo motifs, and a few others came over from Washburn. There are notes and interviews where he talks about the Razorback and Razorbolt.
> 
> So that leaves what? Those Dime/Pantera tribute ones?



I'd have to have another look through the catalogues later tonight if you want a thorough answer to that.

What we do know is that Dimebag was dead for 95% of his Dean endorsement history and he left behind notes and sketches of guitar designs he liked. We also know that Dean (and particularly Dean's designer Stephen Jensen) interpreted other endorsees' design requests in a similar style as Dime's without much input. Lastly, we know plenty of non-artist guitars received the same graphic treatment as well.

Regardless of how descriptive Dimebag's notes were, it is difficult to argue Dimebag ruined Dean when Dean extended a similar design philosophy to so many other product lines.

Also, looking at the Razorback shape and how much it resembles Dean Zelinski's later output under the DBZ/Diamond brand, you have to wonder about a chicken and egg problem when it comes to Dimebag and Dean. 



works0fheart said:


> People here are really arguing over whether the tacky designs came from Dean or Dime?
> 
> The answer is both. Sermo proved that by showing all the other wonky stuff they've made.
> 
> Dean is based in Florida, Dime is from Texas. Neither of those states are known for having modest people. I'd know, I'm from one of them. We're obnoxious af.



Cheers--I'm not going to indict all of Florida and Texas, but when we uncovered footage of Dean's graphic designer wearing an affliction t-shirt and a cowboy hat festooned with flames, I thought that might've solved the mystery


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 22, 2021)

Speaking of profiting off dime.

https://reverb.com/item/43339628-wa...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=43339628

oof


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 22, 2021)

Sermo Lupi said:


> I'd have to have another look through the catalogues later tonight if you want a thorough answer to that.
> 
> What we do know is that Dimebag was dead for 95% of his Dean endorsement history and he left behind notes and sketches of guitar designs he liked. We also know that Dean (and particularly Dean's designer Stephen Jensen) interpreted other endorsees' design requests in a similar style as Dime's without much input. Lastly, we know plenty of non-artist guitars received the same graphic treatment as well.
> 
> ...



The fact is, the greater majority of Dean Dime models were finished in patterns and motifs taken directly from when Dime was not affiliated with Dean guitars. Again, those are the Rebel/Dixie, FBD, Flame, Slime, Girl/Dime-O-Flage, Camo, Cross, Plate, DFH (blue with lighting), and a few others less seen.

While Dean did take some liberties with some finishes, it was primarily on cheaper entry level models, and haven't significantly in almost a decade. 

It's interesting to note, even the more classy of Dime models, like the FBD, were often covered in KISS and pot leaf stickers by Dime himself.


----------



## bloodocean (Aug 22, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Speaking of profiting off dime.






that is priced… aggressively


----------



## Randy (Aug 22, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Speaking of profiting off dime.
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/43339628-wa...are&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=43339628
> 
> oof



*that* is the guitar I most associate with Dime.


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Aug 22, 2021)

bloodocean said:


> View attachment 96978
> 
> 
> that is priced… aggressively



These were 400 usd with a case from music123 back in the day. 

To be fair with a pickup change these guitars were the bees knees.


----------



## goherpsNderp (Aug 22, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Shiiit. Sell that shit and cash in on the idiots. You'd be a fool not to.



I may go ahead and do it, but I've never sold a guitar online before and I'm nervous about getting scammed or making a slip up and ending up with no guitar or money.

(ebay item didn't arrive scam, item gets lost in shipping, damaged in shipping, new account so no one trusts me, etc.)

Probably just over-thinking it though. Is it really as simple as slapping it in a Reverb guitar box with packing paper, listing it online, and just guessing worst-case scenario on shipping and using that number?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 22, 2021)

goherpsNderp said:


> I may go ahead and do it, but I've never sold a guitar online before and I'm nervous about getting scammed or making a slip up and ending up with no guitar or money.
> 
> (ebay item didn't arrive scam, item gets lost in shipping, damaged in shipping, new account so no one trusts me, etc.)
> 
> Probably just over-thinking it though. Is it really as simple as slapping it in a Reverb guitar box with packing paper, listing it online, and just guessing worst-case scenario on shipping and using that number?



If you use a site like Reverb they pretty much guide you through the whole process.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 22, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The fact is, the greater majority of Dean Dime models were finished in patterns and motifs taken directly from when Dime was not affiliated with Dean guitars.



Your original statement was that Dimebag ruined Dean rather than the other way around. I don't see how that is possible given the evidence I shared above regarding Dean's treatment of their other endorsees and the habits of their graphic designer.

As for how many designs Dimebag brought to Dean, and how much input he had on designs put out after he died, I can't substantiate your claim that Washburn/Dime iterated more than Dean. It actually seems to be the opposite: Dean created at least twice as many designs, _plus _making many of the Washburn finishes on top of that. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> Again, those are the Rebel/Dixie, FBD, Flame, Slime, Girl/Dime-O-Flage, Camo, Cross, Plate, DFH (blue with lighting), and a few others less seen.
> 
> While Dean did take some liberties with some finishes, it was primarily on cheaper entry level models, and haven't significantly in almost a decade.



So, about a dozen Washburn designs total, yeah? Your list of 9 plus a few rarities like the Matrix-looking "Domination" model and a couple other non-custom shop variants. We'll exclude minor stuff like colour changes for both Dean and Washburn to keep this simple. 

Dean added the following at minimum:

Concrete Sledge
Wanted
Dimebonics
Dime-O-Flame (which differs from the Washburn Flame)
Rust-From-Hell
Explosion
Skulls
Showdown
X-Ray
Cemetary Gates
Lonestar
Bio Mech
Roots
DNA
Slime Bumblebee
Bumblebee Firefly
Dimeblade
Snakeskin
Razorbolt
Camo (which differs from the Washburn design)
Camo Variant (lighter and more sparse, offered in 2008)
War Camo 
Far Beyond Driven
Southern Trendkill
Vulgar Display of Power
Cowboys from Hell
That's just what I could find from from browsing archives of the website circa 2008 through 2018. I'm certain there's more since I found a 2008 catalogue that had a couple designs not displayed on the 2008 website, for example.

As for Dean being 10 years past all that crap, that doesn't seem to be true either. As recently as 2016, Dean was offering the majority of the designs mentioned above and was making at least 5 different shapes: the ML, Razorback, Razorbolt, Razorback V, Rebel, and Stealth.

I also find it extremely hard to believe Dimebag's notes, sketches--whatever they were--had much resemblance to many of the guitars Dean actually produced. Most of those graphics look like they were photoshopped together out of stock images without much thought. 

To be honest, I forgot Dean churned out that much Dime stuff. Maybe you did too?


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## ArtDecade (Aug 22, 2021)

Go away, Sermon.


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## Sermo Lupi (Aug 22, 2021)

Take your own advice @ArtDecade. You are not obligated to read, like, or engage with my comments. You never add anything constructive, critical or otherwise. All you do is harass me about participating, which makes you look like a loser to be perfectly frank. Beyond that, if you have a problem with me take it to my DMs because this isn't the place for it.


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## mmr007 (Aug 22, 2021)

I got lost...what are we arguing about now? Dean makes a lot of tacky guitars. Dime plays a lot of tacky guitars...then what happened?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 22, 2021)

Block each other and stop being argumentative. Jesus.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 22, 2021)

mmr007 said:


> I got lost...what are we arguing about now? Dean makes a lot of tacky guitars. Dime plays a lot of tacky guitars...then what happened?



I don't know, some folks think that Dean _made_ Dime play tacky guitars, and not that he was just a tacky, yet lovable dude long before the two met.

This thread needs more pictures:






I remember seeing him with that Concrete Sledge hybrid thing live in like 90' and it was just insane.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 22, 2021)

Is that Dime's version of the Kamikaze, but with an American plane aesthetic?


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## mmr007 (Aug 22, 2021)

Those guitars are gross and to be honest I never liked the ML even without the trailer trash graphics. But you want pics....here are some other guitars I think look tacky...tho not AS bad...





Younger me would have loved Holt's blood splatter now?....not so much (although he is hardly the only one)





Anyone else noticing a pointy=leaning trashy correlation?


----------



## mmr007 (Aug 22, 2021)

But considering this is my favorite guitar in the history of guitars...maybe I'll just shut up and show myself to the exit...


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## MrWulf (Aug 22, 2021)

And its always dude pushing 40s 50s with those design too. Lets not pretend that Dime who wear his colors proud wouldnt be any different than those guys if he didnt die.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 22, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is that Dime's version of the Kamikaze, but with an American plane aesthetic?



Well, the US didn't have suicide bombers per set, but I suppose. It was called "Bomber" in the old Washburn catalogs.


----------



## works0fheart (Aug 23, 2021)

mmr007 said:


> Anyone else noticing a pointy=leaning trashy correlation?



Let's not get crazy now. There are plenty of great looking pointy guitars and plenty of trashy looking non-pointies.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 23, 2021)

Do you guys remember that sick snakeskin dime that Washburn built him in the pantera 3 video? It had a fixed bridge I’m guessing for songs like underground in America with that low tuning.


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## Bdtunn (Aug 23, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Do you guys remember that sick snakeskin dime that Washburn built him in the planters 3 video? It had a fixed bridge I’m guessing for songs like underground in America with that low tuning.



I think he brought that out for I’ll cast a shadow live. Loved that one!


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 23, 2021)

All this talk is making me want to buy a USA dime slime ML but I can’t find one in stock on reverb or any site.


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## Alex79 (Aug 23, 2021)

Let's add some more pictures of the beautiful designs:


----------



## dr_game0ver (Aug 23, 2021)

Ho common... No one wants to follow that glorious political statement disguised as trolley comment?


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 23, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't know, some folks think that Dean _made_ Dime play tacky guitars, and not that he was just a tacky, yet lovable dude long before the two met.



The point is that most of what Dean put out was their designs. Is it any less tasteful than what Dime made with Washburn? That's subjective, but in my personal opinion, "yes".

Considering this, I don't see how it is possible Dimebag ruined Dean like you said. Or that the "Dimebag aesthetic" was limited to his guitars when it seemed more like a "Dean aesthetic" shared across the company. They produced similar designs on standard production guitars and production guitars for other endorsees. Dean were not slavish in emulating Dimebag's Washburns, nor were they conservative in coming up with new designs and models. In fact they seem to have made at least twice as many production models as Washburn did. Those designs in turn seem to be largely the vision of Dean's graphic designer, Stephen Jensen, as demonstrated by his other work with Dean. I don't doubt each design originated in some way with an idea of Dime's, albeit long after his death. About a dozen Deans emulated his Washburns.

No one has argued (or at least I haven't) that Dimebag's bold taste started with Dean. They were two peas in a pod if anything.

Beyond that, you were asking me to point out examples of Dean using tacky graphics on non-Dimebag guitars, so I did that. Then you asked me for examples of Dean finishes that weren't from Washburn production models (while claiming "the greater majority" of Dean's designs came from Washburn), so I gathered the evidence for that, too.

It isn't an argument. I'm simply saying Dean took up the Dimebag standard and ran with in their own style. I think the evidence bears that out. He was really a dream artist for them, at least judging by the types of guitars for other endorsees and regular production. It suited their style instead of taking them some place new (i.e. as if "Dimebag ruined Dean").


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 23, 2021)

dr_game0ver said:


> Ho common... No one wants to follow that glorious political statement disguised as trolley comment?



For real. 

Talk about low quality bait.

Though, I'd give the benefit of the doubt and say they were being sarcastic.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 23, 2021)

Sermo Lupi said:


> The point is that most of what Dean put out was their designs. Is it any less tasteful than what Dime made with Washburn? That's subjective, but in my personal opinion, "yes".
> 
> Considering this, I don't see how it is possible Dimebag ruined Dean like you said. Or that the "Dimebag aesthetic" was limited to his guitars when it seemed more like a "Dean aesthetic" shared across the company. They produced similar designs on standard production guitars and production guitars for other endorsees. Dean were not slavish in emulating Dimebag's Washburns, nor were they conservative in coming up with new designs and models. In fact they seem to have made at least twice as many production models as Washburn did. Those designs in turn seem to be largely the vision of Dean's graphic designer, Stephen Jensen, as demonstrated by his other work with Dean. I don't doubt each design originated in some way with an idea of Dime's, albeit long after his death. About a dozen Deans emulated his Washburns.
> 
> ...



I don't feel like litigating the small differences between various camo (_well actually, Washburn used the NATO standard woodland pattern with a mix of moss, dark green, and shit brown, while Dean happened to use 'Nam era type #3 camo which is a combo of deep green, rolling stone moss, and horse turd brown_) and flame and animal print patterns over the years, or dig deep into the history of Deans he used prior to most recent endorsement. 

I stand by what I said, the patterns _and motifs _were by and large not new to Dime by the time of Dean endorsement, which made up the majority of what's been offered in bulk the last couple decades.


----------



## Alex79 (Aug 23, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> For real.
> 
> Talk about low quality bait.
> 
> Though, I'd give the benefit of the doubt and say they were being sarcastic.



I‘m confused. Was this in relation to my post? That was in reference to tacky guitars and pictures of the guitars.


----------



## mmr007 (Aug 23, 2021)

Alex79 said:


> I‘m confused. Was this in relation to my post? That was in reference to tacky guitars and pictures of the guitars.


You're good....pretty much everyone got the sarcasm


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 23, 2021)

Alex79 said:


> Let's add some more pictures of the beautiful designs:



Poor D-Bag looks more dated in that get-up than Brian May does in White Jumpsuits with Fringe.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 23, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't feel like litigating the small differences between various camo (_well actually, Washburn used the NATO standard woodland pattern with a mix of moss, dark green, and shit brown, while Dean happened to use 'Nam era type #3 camo which is a combo of deep green, rolling stone moss, and horse turd brown_) and flame and animal print patterns over the years, or dig deep into the history of Deans he used prior to most recent endorsement.
> 
> I stand by what I said, the patterns _and motifs _were by and large not new to Dime by the time of Dean endorsement, which made up the majority of what's been offered in bulk the last couple decades.



Of a list of 26, your complaints pertain to what, 4 overlaps? What about all the others? There's easily >12 there that are Dean innovations. 

I'm trying to accurately answer your questions but you keep moving the goalposts every time I do.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 23, 2021)

Sermo Lupi said:


> Of a list of 26, your complaints pertain to what, 4 overlaps? What about all the others? There's easily >12 there that are Dean innovations.
> 
> I'm trying to accurately answer your questions but you keep moving the goalposts every time I do.



There's no goalposts. You're way over complicating it. The myth is that Dean somehow sullied Dime's legacy by making a bunch of tacky guitars, when he was just a tacky person who had been playing tacky guitars for decades. Full stop.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 23, 2021)

Alex79 said:


> I‘m confused. Was this in relation to my post? That was in reference to tacky guitars and pictures of the guitars.



Yeah, I figured. You can just never tell on the internet.


----------



## mmr007 (Aug 23, 2021)

I think at this point it doesn't matter who was more at fault for bringing guitar kitsch to the masses...both were guilty and it was once a marriage made in heaven. But because Dime is dead and Rita is apparently stuck in a 90's hillbilly time warp we don't know what, if any, changes to the metal aesthetic dime would use on his gear today. I know his warhead amps were also tacky as shit and I don't care if they sounded like a modded Soldano I wouldn't buy one for that reason. But because of new ownership and dwindling interest in all things Pantera (and confederate flag guitars) by the general guitar buying public...Dean has shown that they can abandon tacky...now it's over.

Honestly it doesn't matter where the goalposts got moved...the game was already over


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 23, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's no goalposts. You're way over complicating it. The myth is that Dean somehow sullied Dime's legacy by making a bunch of tacky guitars, when he was just a tacky person who had been playing tacky guitars for decades. Full stop.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 23, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's no goalposts. You're way over complicating it. The myth is that Dean somehow sullied Dime's legacy by making a bunch of tacky guitars, when he was just a tacky person who had been playing tacky guitars for decades. Full stop.



You're arguing against a strawman. From my first two posts in this thread: 



> The problem would be that the various Dimebag guitars fit within Dean's existing design language, which was mostly tacky across the board in the mid-2000s and 2010s. [...] I won't sit here and argue Dimebag had good taste for anything but his own music. Yet I think he was attracted to Dean precisely because they made the kind of tacky guitars he had a soft spot for.



So I think we can agree on that much. The problem was your other claim that "it's not like Dean made Dime tacky, Dime made Dean tacky." Dean's been tacky for ages, and in ways that extend beyond Dimebag.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 23, 2021)

Both are/were tacky. Everyone happy now?


----------



## BenjaminW (Aug 23, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is that Dime's version of the Kamikaze, but with an American plane aesthetic?


I think MAB did the American plane aesthetic better. Dime’s version just looks like a bastardized Kamikaze.


----------



## StevenC (Aug 23, 2021)

Sermo Lupi said:


> You're arguing against a strawman. From my first two posts in this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> So I think we can agree on that much. The problem was your other claim that "it's not like Dean made Dime tacky, Dime made Dean tacky." Dean's been tacky for ages, and in ways that extend beyond Dimebag.


This is very quantifiable though. Look at the 2003 Dean catalog. No graphics, just solid finishes and maple bursts. Then Dime happened.


----------



## bostjan (Aug 23, 2021)

StevenC said:


> This is very quantifiable though. Look at the 2003 Dean catalog. No graphics, just solid finishes and maple bursts. Then Dime happened.


Yeah, but Dimearchive rates those finishes less tacky.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 23, 2021)

I just like the implication that some rando 90's tattoo grade biomech bullshit is somehow less tacky than the actual confederate flag.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 23, 2021)

StevenC said:


> This is very quantifiable though. Look at the 2003 Dean catalog. No graphics, just solid finishes and maple bursts. Then Dime happened.



Totally classic maple bursts just like momma used to make (from the 2003 website):


----------



## mmr007 (Aug 23, 2021)




----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 23, 2021)

Dean were such dicks they made the poor guy play backwards...at the same time.


----------



## John (Aug 23, 2021)

lewis said:


> If anyone can make Dimebag guitars look sick asf and current in 2021, it's companies like Solar.



I wouldn't be so sure, especially since they didn't even have a good track record of making their own guitars look "sick asf" within the last several months or so.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 23, 2021)

NEW! Dimebag Guitars from SOLAR! Get the I'm Broken model, which comes pre gimmicked, just like the music video!


----------



## StevenC (Aug 23, 2021)

Sermo Lupi said:


> Totally classic maple bursts just like momma used to make (from the 2003 website):


That's way classier than some of his earlier double guitars. And this was never a guitar they sold right? Just what MAB wanted to play.

For real, you can Google the 2003 catalog and see that it's just regular guitars.


----------



## lewis (Aug 23, 2021)

John said:


> I wouldn't be so sure, especially since they didn't even have a good track record of making their own guitars look "sick asf" within the last several months or so.





Spaced Out Ace said:


> NEW! Dimebag Guitars from SOLAR! Get the I'm Broken model, which comes pre gimmicked, just like the music video!



Wtf have I missed about Solars ?


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 23, 2021)

lewis said:


> Wtf have I missed about Solars ?



Not sure of the details, but they had some serious fretboard cracking issues in the past.

They also sell B-stocks with bizarre flaws in their website (like maple fretbord that looks like rosewood and things like that, serious paint issues, etc). Any other manufacturer would just discard those, but with Solar they break free. But cheaper. 

So they don't have that great reputation outside its target market.


----------



## Sermo Lupi (Aug 23, 2021)

StevenC said:


> That's way classier than some of his earlier double guitars. And this was never a guitar they sold right? Just what MAB wanted to play.
> 
> For real, you can Google the 2003 catalog and see that it's just regular guitars.



No, you're right. I was just joking around. It's just kind of funny how Dean were putting those traditional finishes on everything that year--MLs, Vs, MAB double necks. Like their finish department was at PRS and their manufacturing plant at BC Rich. 

Dean was in a weird spot circa 2003. They were competing with companies like BC Rich and Jackson, both of whom had bold finishes and graphics in production at that time. BC Rich had signature artists like Kerry King and Mick Thomson. Jackson had a whole roster. Dean landing Dime was huge for them.

It's that chicken and egg conundrum I mentioned earlier. Dean wasn't hiring a guy like Jensen to only design Dimebag's guitars. They were trying to grow the company in a different direction and Dimebag was just one of several artists to help with that. If you look at the 2005 catalogue (it seems there was no 2004 catalogue, just a price list and dealer addendum), Michael Schenker has a double-page spread with those bold black/white Vs and acoustics. There's regular guitars with flames, etc. 

Holding (a dead) Dimebag responsible for that pivot is just silly. Dean had shown signs pointing in that direction for awhile. Go back and look at the old website designs if you want a good laugh.


----------



## RevelGTR (Aug 24, 2021)

All I know is that I can’t even begin to explain how bad I wanted a Razorback explosion when I started playing in 2007/8ish. I think around then must’ve been the peak for the Dean Dime models, my local GC had a shitload of them. By the time 2010 rolled around I was all about RG’s, Strats and PRS’s though, and I’d guess a lot of metal loving teenagers made the same transition. I still think they’re a cool relic of that weird era when Metalcore, Butt Rock and the tail end of Nu-Metal all made for an absolutely massive mainstream rock scene, especially among younger people. 

In fact in retrospect if I have to pick between Trivium or something playing tasteless, ugly Deans and whatever terrible Reddit metalcore band is most popular among a handful of nerds this year playing blurple shitburst super strats that look like they belong in 2015 it would be an easy choice haha.


----------



## manu80 (Aug 24, 2021)

only one I liked were the stealth (washburn or dean) and the Razorback V.
The Razorback, still like the ML , is pleasant to play sit and very comfy but too much spikes kills the spike !!!


----------



## BornToLooze (Aug 24, 2021)

I feel like we all missed something a couple pages back....Dean makes goddamned banjos????


----------



## StevenC (Aug 24, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> I feel like we all missed something a couple pages back....Dean makes goddamned banjos????


Yes, but they also won't put confederate flags on them?


----------



## BornToLooze (Aug 24, 2021)

StevenC said:


> Yes, but they also won't put confederate flags on them?


I'm fairly surprised that it's not a ML shaped banjo like those acoustics they made.


----------



## bostjan (Aug 24, 2021)

Dean has/had a six string banjo. The low E on a banjo is virtually inaudible, accoustically. But aside from that, they make decent bajos for the price.


----------



## Rob Joyner (Aug 24, 2021)

I mean, Dime came from the hair metal era style and matured with the 90s, early 00s equally outstanding aesthetics. Most shouldn't be surprised his guitars were/are ugly as fuck.

I do love Pantera sincerely though, but we don't need to be blind followers and accept everything because fandom.


----------



## Demiurge (Aug 24, 2021)

Breno Girafa said:


> I mean, Dime came from the hair metal era style and matured with the 90s, early 00s equally outstanding aesthetics. Most shouldn't be surprised his guitars were/are ugly as fuck.



This is very true. Our eyeballs never stood a chance.


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Aug 24, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Not sure of the details, but they had some serious fretboard cracking issues in the past.
> 
> They also sell B-stocks with bizarre flaws in their website (like maple fretbord that looks like rosewood and things like that, serious paint issues, etc). Any other manufacturer would just discard those, but with Solar they break free. But cheaper.
> 
> So they don't have that great reputation outside its target market.



A lot of manufacturers used to sell b stock. I believe factory second was the term gibson used to use, and schecter b stock and prototypes are always up for sale for example. As long as everything is noted accurately in the description I really dont see what the problem is?


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 24, 2021)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> A lot of manufacturers used to sell b stock. I believe factory second was the term gibson used to use, and schecter b stock and prototypes are always up for sale for example. As long as everything is noted accurately in the description I really dont see what the problem is?



It is not a problem for the person who buys it in the first place with full disclosure. But when those guitars start shifting hands and the history is lost, they're just guitars with bad QC.  When too many of them appear into the wild, it starts to affect brand reputation, since the average joe won't know if that guitar was a B-stock in the first place.

Think about it this way. If you cared about the reputation of your product, would you like to see subpar examples around with plenty of people talking about terrible QC? Looks like in this case the answer is no (as long as Ola turns them into money anyway).

With that being said, I've never ever seen B-stock guitars with issues like some of the Solars had. Most B-stocks are usually paint bubbles or tiny dings. That is acceptable, but maple fretboards that look like rosewood? Man, that's definetely fucked up.

Also, Gibson is a pretty bad example. We all know they don't give a damn about QC anymore


----------



## bostjan (Aug 24, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> It is not a problem for the person who buys it in the first place with full disclosure. But when those guitars start shifting hands and the history is lost, they're just guitars with bad QC.  When too many of them appear into the wild, it starts to affect brand reputation, since the average joe won't know if that guitar was a B-stock in the first place.
> 
> Think about it this way. If you cared about the reputation of your product, would you like to see subpar examples around with plenty of people talking about terrible QC? Looks like in this case the answer is no (as long as Ola turns them into money anyway).
> 
> ...


Is it Solar's fault if they sell someone a full retail guitar and that person dings the finish, swaps the electronic for cheap shit, and then sells it as if it were mint?


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 24, 2021)

All of y'all whining about how ugly guitars were in the 80s and I'm here laughing at all of your spalted, burl, and Strandberg-looking things. Dime had some ugly guitars, but you can't put that bad taste on the Sunset Strip. He rejected the Diamond and chose the Dimebag.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 24, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Is it Solar's fault if they sell someone a full retail guitar and that person dings the finish, swaps the electronic for cheap shit, and then sells it as if it were mint?



We're talking about B-stock guitars being sold at their own website, not random scammers


----------



## pipelineaudio (Aug 24, 2021)

aesthyrian said:


> I wonder if Ola is drooling over the potential of a Dime Solar. Surely they would be of better quality than the Dean imports. Of course, Solar doesn't have the proper distribution to really handle such a name yet.



Does anyone have a link to these alleged NON-import Solars?


----------



## bostjan (Aug 24, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> We're talking about B-stock guitars being sold at their own website, not random scammers



Let's recap.

You said selling B stock was a problem for the manufacturer. Someone asked why. You said because the item will eventually be sold without disclosure of it being B stock. I asked if it'd be the manufacturer's fault if the item was purchased in perfect condition and then messed up by the buyer, then sold without disclosing it was messed up.

I guess now we are not talking about sellers who don't disclose the condition of the item they are selling, which was what you brought up?


----------



## Matt08642 (Aug 24, 2021)

Wasn't the "cracking fretboard" saga for Solar just that one annoying as fuck YouTuber screaming about how his Washburn Solars had QC issues and he "Totally knew some dudes with cracked solar necks" with no evidence ever produced?

Those darn import brands and uh... oh


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 24, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Let's recap.
> 
> You said selling B stock was a problem for the manufacturer. Someone asked why. You said because the item will eventually be sold without disclosure of it being B stock. I asked if it'd be the manufacturer's fault if the item was purchased in perfect condition and then messed up by the buyer, then sold without disclosing it was messed up.
> 
> I guess now we are not talking about sellers who don't disclose the condition of the item they are selling, which was what you brought up?



You can overcomplicate stuff as much as you want. In the end they're just flawed guitars with your brand name. No matter where they came from. If you never allow those lemons to be sold, they won't hit you back. Simple as that.

Someone asked what was the deal with Solar, and I answered. I have no dog in this fight, since I have zero interest in indo guitars anyway and I don't feel like arguing for some someone else's jokes.

/done with this.


----------



## aesthyrian (Aug 24, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> Wasn't the "cracking fretboard" saga for Solar just that one annoying as fuck YouTuber screaming about how his Washburn Solars had QC issues and he "Totally knew some dudes with cracked solar necks" with no evidence ever produced?



Nah, while that guy was loud and obnoxious, there are more than enough examples of solars(not washburns) with severe cracking in the ebony boards. 



https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159869754231874&set=gm.853569938834427
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10159019250687510&set=pcb.846580956199992
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158207680682914&set=pcb.845257552998999
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10158207680687914&set=pcb.845257552998999

Wouldn't be too hard to find more examples. 

Makes me more than happy to love rosewood haha


----------



## Demiurge (Aug 24, 2021)

I don't think there's really any issue with selling B-stocks of the "scratch & dent" variety. After initial sale of it, it's just a used guitar with damage, no different than a formerly-mint guitar with its own damage.

B-stocks of the manufacture/build defect variety are specifically the guitars the builder shouldn't want to see the light of day. 

Funnily, the Guitar Center near me has a new, "scratch & dent" Epi LP with a defective neck. WTF- send that shit back!


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Aug 24, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> It is not a problem for the person who buys it in the first place with full disclosure. But when those guitars start shifting hands and the history is lost, they're just guitars with bad QC.  When too many of them appear into the wild, it starts to affect brand reputation, since the average joe won't know if that guitar was a B-stock in the first place.
> 
> Think about it this way. If you cared about the reputation of your product, would you like to see subpar examples around with plenty of people talking about terrible QC? Looks like in this case the answer is no (as long as Ola turns them into money anyway).
> 
> ...



I think that's a fair point. 

If I were solar I'd be getting stamping guitars as b stock into the wood (think like Gibson does for it's serials) in several locations around the guitar (back of the neck, pu cavity, back plate cavity) to combat this but people will get around everything.


----------



## Matt08642 (Aug 24, 2021)

aesthyrian said:


> Nah, while that guy was loud and obnoxious, there are more than enough examples of solars(not washburns) with severe cracking in the ebony boards.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I stand corrected! 

I'd still wager on a Solar B stock as long as it didn't have these kinds of cracks as an issue. Been tempted to get one of their $599 B stocks but after currency conversion, shipping, and duties it's never worth it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 24, 2021)

It's not like those cracks can't be fairly cheaply and easily fixed. It doesn't make sense for Solar to do it since they're not tooled up and it does take time (which is money).

It would be silly to scrap them, these aren't $4k PRS guitars that don't make the grade and thus get bandsawed.

We're talking a little bit of filler or glue and some dust, then just wait for cure. There might be a tiny bit of sanding to do. So an afternoon with $15 materials.

When you hear folks bitching about ebony cracking like it's the end of the world, it's usually in the context of being on very expensive, sometimes difficult guitars to work on. That's not the case anymore as you can get $500 guitars with "ebony" boards that you don't have to sweat fucking up. Back when it was $2k+ flattops and LPCs it sucked. 

I'm not even a fan of Solar or Ola, but some of this stuff is fairly trivial. If you're going to buy cheaper OEM guitars, you might have to put a little work in, and this is what I'd call "little" work.


----------



## works0fheart (Aug 25, 2021)

Do people suddenly hate Solar guitars now? Has the forum found another brand of guitars to circlejerk until they decide they're "overrated"?


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 25, 2021)

works0fheart said:


> Do people suddenly hate Solar guitars now? Has the forum found another brand of guitars to circlejerk until they decide they're "overrated"?



People have probably just hit their limit with Ola worship and it has rubber-banded back.


----------



## SCJR (Aug 25, 2021)

I still haven't played a Solar but really want to. Being in the US they're obviously not really floating around in the wild.



ArtDecade said:


> All of y'all whining about how ugly guitars were in the 80s and I'm here laughing at all of your spalted, burl, and Strandberg-looking things. Dime had some ugly guitars, but you can't put that bad taste on the Sunset Strip. He rejected the Diamond and chose the Dimebag.


 
I'm with you 100% on the burl tops. But I've always understood the Strandberg to pretty much just be an S shape?


----------



## VGK17 (Aug 25, 2021)

SCJR said:


> I still haven't played a Solar but really want to. Being in the US they're obviously not really floating around in the wild.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm with you 100% on the burl tops. But I've always understood the Strandberg to pretty much just be an S shape?


I took a chance back in 2019 buying my first Solar, E2.6. Main thing was the shape, specs I want for my level of playing and the price. I wound up buying an E1.6 later that year with the Evertune. Both were flawless, even though the 2.6 was B stock. I wound up buying another E1.6 this year, the Vinter, and an A1.8 for my first 8 string. Again price and specs were what got me, and the Solar E shape turned out to be the most comfortable guitar for me to play. The two guitars I bought this year were made in late 2020 (the 8) and spring 2021 and both of those were also flawless. I'm lucky, I have seen pictures on Facebook of some cracks on the fretboards but there was definitely a very vocal minority who had issues and seems to be from a run of early to mid 2020. I live in the desert, I use a humidifier occasionally but I condition my fretboards regularly and have no issues with any cracks or large grain on any of them. I also have a couple of LTDs, I would say that Solar is on par with the 1000 series LTD.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 25, 2021)

SCJR said:


> I'm with you 100% on the burl tops. But I've always understood the Strandberg to pretty much just be an S shape?



I mean... its an S shape that melted like ice cream on a day at the beach.


----------



## Elric (Aug 25, 2021)

Andromalia said:


> Well, Dime _did _pass away 16 years ago. His fanbase probably is mostly just old dudes now. It makes sense that his signature guitars sell less and less, especially since they aren't really mainstream.


Thing is, he needs to keep putting out new material to stay relevant. You know, like Hendrix does.


----------



## Matt08642 (Aug 25, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's not like those cracks can't be fairly cheaply and easily fixed. It doesn't make sense for Solar to do it since they're not tooled up and it does take time (which is money).
> 
> It would be silly to scrap them, these aren't $4k PRS guitars that don't make the grade and thus get bandsawed.
> 
> ...



Even without being fixed, the cracks in the ebony of my PRS SE haven't gotten worse over the 4 or 5 Canadian winters it's been through:




Shrug


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 25, 2021)

Elric said:


> Thing is, he needs to keep putting out new material to stay relevant. You know, like Hendrix does.


Hendrix is iconic. Dime ain't nowhere close to that


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 25, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Hendrix is iconic. Dime ain't nowhere close to that



Awww, come on now. There are plenty of people waiting for a soundboard recording of Damageplan playing a local BBQ place in 2003. I have a highly rated mid-80s bootleg of Pantera opening for Stryper that I am hoping to sell to the highest bidder.


----------



## manu80 (Aug 25, 2021)

Never been into Hendrix but ...basically it's just a strat , right ? Like Angus, a SG, period. Basic without personnal touch. And the Hendrix generation is like Dime's, it's fading... We'll talk about Peavey Wolfgang and EVH in 30 yrs and how people don't buy them anymore.....
Dean should just have kept the ML tobacco and the Lightning with Dime's name on it and that's it. Small production every year.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 25, 2021)

manu80 said:


> Never been into Hendrix but ...basically it's just a strat , right ? Like Angus, a SG, period. Basic without personnal touch. And the Hendrix generation is like Dime's, it's fading... We'll talk about Peavey Wolfgang and EVH in 30 yrs and how people don't buy them anymore.....
> Dean should just have kept the ML tobacco and the Lightning with Dime's name on it and that's it. Small production every year.



Hendrix died 50 years ago and still sells more signature gear than most current bands combined.


----------



## BornToLooze (Aug 25, 2021)

manu80 said:


> Never been into Hendrix but ..*.basically it's just a strat* , right ? Like Angus, a SG, period. Basic without personnal touch. And the Hendrix generation is like Dime's, it's fading... We'll talk about Peavey Wolfgang and EVH in 30 yrs and how people don't buy them anymore.....
> Dean should just have kept the ML tobacco and the Lightning with Dime's name on it and that's it. Small production every year.



Not even just a Strat...


----------



## manu80 (Aug 25, 2021)

Thank you ..I was speaking about the most emblematic but ...yeah....anyways....
let's wait for the next Wah , then....


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 25, 2021)

manu80 said:


> Thank you ..I was speaking about the most emblematic but ...yeah....anyways....
> let's wait for the next Wah , then....



Wahs, vibes, fuzzes, picks, candles, shirts, blankets, bottle openers, toys, lighters, posters, lunch boxes, busts, bean bags, watches, straps, belt buckles, sneakers, oh - and music.


----------



## BornToLooze (Aug 25, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Wahs, vibes, fuzzes, picks, candles, shirts, blankets, bottle openers, toys, lighters, posters, lunch boxes, busts, bean bags, watches, straps, belt buckles, sneakers, oh - and music.



Maybe I don't look at gear enough, I didn't know they made any signature Jimi stuff besides the Fuzz.

I still want one of these shirts though.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Awww, come on now. There are plenty of people waiting for a soundboard recording of Damageplan playing a local BBQ place in 2003. I have a highly rated mid-80s bootleg of Pantera opening for Stryper that I am hoping to sell to the highest bidder.


I'd rather listen to 80s Pantera than anything after Vulgar. While I like Vulgar, the precedent it set was awful. Phil had one of the best new vocalists in the 90s on CFH, then he descended into drugs, awful screaming (to be more metal, duuude), and acting like a faux tough guy, when he's more like Edward Norton in American History X (including the rape scene). I probably shouldn't be this mad about it, but fuck you Phil. What you did to your voice is criminal. Now he can barely even speak, everything he says is in a fry voice. People seriously wanted a "reunited" Pantera -- why? So you can hear Phil Anselmo croak and scream, ignoring their good material because his voice is fucking shot? 

So yeah, fuck you Phil. Dickhead.

Just in case anyone is thinking of reading this: His voice on Power Metal and CFH is better than Tim Ripper Owens.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> Maybe I don't look at gear enough, I didn't know they made any signature Jimi stuff besides the Fuzz.
> 
> I still want one of these shirts though.


Why does the bottom half of that dude's face look like it is Tony Hawk? Lol.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 25, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> Maybe I don't look at gear enough, I didn't know they made any signature Jimi stuff besides the Fuzz.



Dunlop does all the officially licensed pedals. At the moment.
https://www.jimdunlop.com/products/electronics/authentic-hendrix/


----------



## BornToLooze (Aug 25, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Dunlop does all the officially licensed pedals. At the moment.
> https://www.jimdunlop.com/products/electronics/authentic-hendrix/



I think I'm doing it wrong, I just bought a Vox wah since that's what Clapton and Hendrix used.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 25, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Wahs, vibes, fuzzes, picks, candles, shirts, blankets, bottle openers, toys, lighters, posters, lunch boxes, busts, bean bags, watches, straps, belt buckles, sneakers, oh - and music.



Don't forget the wine.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 25, 2021)

C'mon now..Jimi was the face of an entire generation that was an important part of history.

Dime was the face of lowkey racist guys who didn't bathe, lived in trailers attached to meth labs and stayed high constantly.

I don't even think Dime really wanted that sort of legacy and I'd argue he was the most pleasant of that bunch. He was the ambassador for that life. Tacky, yet lovable and (debatably) inoffensive..then you look behind him at all his followers...that's when the bad times happen.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 25, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> I think I'm doing it wrong, I just bought a Vox wah since that's what Clapton and Hendrix used.



Yeah, well, it is not about accuracy and more about which company will pay the most for the licensing fee.


----------



## j3ps3 (Aug 26, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I'd rather listen to 80s Pantera than anything after Vulgar. While I like Vulgar, the precedent it set was awful. Phil had one of the best new vocalists in the 90s on CFH, then he descended into drugs, awful screaming (to be more metal, duuude), and acting like a faux tough guy, when he's more like Edward Norton in American History X (including the rape scene). I probably shouldn't be this mad about it, but fuck you Phil. What you did to your voice is criminal. Now he can barely even speak, everything he says is in a fry voice. People seriously wanted a "reunited" Pantera -- why? So you can hear Phil Anselmo croak and scream, ignoring their good material because his voice is fucking shot?
> 
> So yeah, fuck you Phil. Dickhead.
> 
> Just in case anyone is thinking of reading this: His voice on Power Metal and CFH is better than Tim Ripper Owens.



While it's not technically nowhere near Glamtera, I recently watched a stream Down did and thought Phil sounded great. Best he has sounded in years, tbh.



Also, seems like it's cool to hate on Dimebag and Pantera now  All hail Jimi


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 26, 2021)

j3ps3 said:


> While it's not technically nowhere near Glamtera, I recently watched a stream Down did and thought Phil sounded great. Best he has sounded in years, tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, seems like it's cool to hate on Dimebag and Pantera now  All hail Jimi



Phil sounds the best when he shuts the fuck up and stays out of sight


----------



## j3ps3 (Aug 26, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Phil sounds the best when he shuts the fuck up and stays out of sight


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2021)

j3ps3 said:


> While it's not technically nowhere near Glamtera, I recently watched a stream Down did and thought Phil sounded great. Best he has sounded in years, tbh.
> 
> 
> 
> Also, seems like it's cool to hate on Dimebag and Pantera now  All hail Jimi



Anyone who prefers that horse shit over his amazing singing on Power Metal and CFH does not deserve good things, musically.


----------



## j3ps3 (Aug 26, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Anyone who prefers that horse shit over his amazing singing on Power Metal and CFH does not deserve good things, musically.


That's not what I said. Read it again.


----------



## Andromalia (Aug 26, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> I have a highly rated mid-80s bootleg of Pantera opening for Stryper that I am hoping to sell to the highest bidder.


Ok, now that I know you were hit on the head by a bible, things make sense.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2021)

Andromalia said:


> Ok, now that I know you were hit on the head by a bible, things make sense.



That is your hot take? Pantera opened for Stryper. I'm not sure anyone was hit by a Bible, but Michael Sweet might have autographed one for Dimebag. 



j3ps3 said:


> Also, seems like it's cool to hate on Dimebag and Pantera now  All hail Jimi



@Andromalia put Dimebag and Jimi on the same tier. I'm not even remotely a Hendrix fan and found that laughable - as would most people.


----------



## manu80 (Aug 26, 2021)

wow ! relax ! well, even if i don't like the way you seem to consider people who disagree with you tonewise, to me Randy,Angus, Dime, or James or EVH speaks more to me than Hendrix. Just saying, as everyone here.
A generation thing maybe, but I've never been in awe listening to hendrix, or for this era. Maybe it's cool to say so, idk. Hate the beatles too ! Love the Stones, go figure.
To each his own i guess. But I'd stop bashing a bit. This thread is going nowhere...
Sarcasm behind a computer is sooo cool...


----------



## Andromalia (Aug 26, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> That is your hot take?


Uh, that was supposed to be a joke, but if you're part of the 1st degree team then I guess it was on point...


----------



## j3ps3 (Aug 26, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> That is your hot take? Pantera opened for Stryper. I'm not sure anyone was hit by a Bible, but Michael Sweet might have autographed one for Dimebag.
> 
> 
> 
> @Andromalia put Dimebag and Jimi on the same tier. I'm not even remotely a Hendrix fan and found that laughable - as would most people.



And you took it and ran away with it. You come off as someone who's girlfriend fucked someone from Pantera and you're still salty about it.

And one can't deny that Pantera was and is a big band. Kids are still playing those same riffs from Metallica/Pantera/Megadeth/Whatever they did when I was a kid. It still is a relevant band for metalheads, whether you like it or not.  I don't really understand what makes you (not you in particular, but all of you doing this) so excited about bashing people about it. That's just lame, man.


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 26, 2021)

j3ps3 said:


> And you took it and ran away with it. You come off as someone who's girlfriend fucked someone from Pantera and you're still salty about it.
> 
> And one can't deny that Pantera was and is a big band. Kids are still playing those same riffs from Metallica/Pantera/Megadeth/Whatever they did when I was a kid. It still is a relevant band for metalheads, whether you like it or not.  I don't really understand what makes you (not you in particular, but all of you doing this) so excited about bashing people about it. That's just lame, man.



These guys might have fucked my girlfriend.






These guys were more likely to lure little Finns into their white cargo van.


----------



## j3ps3 (Aug 26, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> These guys might have fucked my girlfriend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like I said, I don't really understand what you get off from being an asshole. You seem to care way too much for someone who doesn't care.


----------



## manu80 (Aug 26, 2021)

whatever, another topic that goes off the rails...


----------



## Rob Joyner (Aug 26, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> All of y'all whining about how ugly guitars were in the 80s and I'm here laughing at all of your spalted, burl, and Strandberg-looking things. Dime had some ugly guitars, but you can't put that bad taste on the Sunset Strip. He rejected the Diamond and chose the Dimebag.


My mans is absolutely right here. Most ppl praise those hideous crackled neon pink or whatever color Kiesel with equally trash shapes and horrid headless guitars (from whatever manufacturer).

Most of these guitars will be a laughing stock in 10yrs.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2021)

j3ps3 said:


> That's not what I said. Read it again.


I don’t care what you said. He sounds dreadful.


----------



## John (Aug 26, 2021)

Breno Girafa said:


> My mans is absolutely right here. Most ppl praise those hideous crackled neon pink or whatever color Kiesel with equally trash shapes and horrid headless guitars (from whatever manufacturer).
> 
> Most of these guitars will be a laughing stock in 10yrs.



Many of them are already a laughing stock now, to be fair.
Absolutely agree on the shapes and their collectively cavernous lack of decent aesthetics going for them. (ie- those aforementioned headless guitars, majestic shovels, RD's, jazzmasters, and their clones, various melted superstrat/LP builds, plenty of others to stave from making a tl;dr list)


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 26, 2021)

So back on the topic. Here are two random anecdotes:

* I've got a USA Dime stealth on order with Chondro that I've been told will still be fulfilled.
* Nick at Axe Palace also posted that all his Dean Dimes on order will still be fulfilled and they can place more orders.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 26, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> So back on the topic. Here are two random anecdotes:
> 
> * I've got a USA Dime stealth on order with Chondro that I've been told will still be fulfilled.
> * Nick at Axe Palace also posted that all his Dean Dimes on order will still be fulfilled and they can place more orders.



Not surprising, as they'd need to get an injunction issued by the court to stop manufacture and/or sales.

This stuff tends to move slowly too, so even if something did happen you could probably out run it depending on build times.


----------



## mastapimp (Aug 26, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> So back on the topic. Here are two random anecdotes:
> 
> * I've got a USA Dime stealth on order with Chondro that I've been told will still be fulfilled.
> * Nick at Axe Palace also posted that all his Dean Dimes on order will still be fulfilled and they can place more orders.



Do the stealths also come with a V neck profile? I played a few USA MLs a decade or so ago and the neck shape turned me off completely.


----------



## pipelineaudio (Aug 26, 2021)

Please someone, I'm still trying to get a hold of non-import Solars, where can I find one?


----------



## VGK17 (Aug 26, 2021)

pipelineaudio said:


> Please someone, I'm still trying to get a hold of non-import Solars, where can I find one?


Pretty sure that unless you're in Europe there aren't any unless you find a used one.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 26, 2021)

pipelineaudio said:


> Please someone, I'm still trying to get a hold of non-import Solars, where can I find one?



Step 1: move to Indonesia 
Step 2: solar is no longer an import


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 26, 2021)

mastapimp said:


> Do the stealths also come with a V neck profile? I played a few USA MLs a decade or so ago and the neck shape turned me off completely.


I believe so. That's what Dime played so that's what they use. Honestly the V neck shape is what sold me on those. That neck shape seems to be so rare.


----------



## StevenC (Aug 27, 2021)

manu80 said:


> Thank you ..I was speaking about the most emblematic but ...yeah....anyways....
> let's wait for the next Wah , then....


I think this is it:


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 27, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> ESP and Charvel already makes a better ML.
> 
> View attachment 96837


Stars>>>>>>>>ML


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 27, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Stars>>>>>>>>ML


Said the wrong person


----------



## mastapimp (Aug 27, 2021)

pipelineaudio said:


> Please someone, I'm still trying to get a hold of non-import Solars, where can I find one?


If you're talking about USA built models, I think his washburn solar signatures are the only ones. They look identical to the solar branded guitars. https://www.washburn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2015WashburnParallaxeCatalog.pdf


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 27, 2021)

mastapimp said:


> If you're talking about USA built models, I think his washburn solar signatures are the only ones. They look identical to the solar branded guitars. https://www.washburn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/2015WashburnParallaxeCatalog.pdf



There are S7G built ones out there too, but...


----------



## RevelGTR (Aug 28, 2021)

The amount of bitter boomer energy in this thread is insane


----------



## ArtDecade (Aug 28, 2021)

RevelGTR said:


> The amount of bitter boomer energy in this thread is insane



Baby Boomers are like 60 - 75. I doubt there that many dudes that old on this forum let alone in this thread.


----------



## Louis Cypher (Aug 28, 2021)

RevelGTR said:


> The amount of bitter boomer energy in this thread is insane


The amount of people who use media pushed buzz words they clearly don't understand the meaning of as insults on this forum is insane


----------



## mmr007 (Aug 28, 2021)




----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 28, 2021)

Ya know, in 19-dickity-2, because the Kaiser stole the word twenty...


----------



## mmr007 (Aug 28, 2021)

Back then before you played your confederate flag Dean Dime you had to tie an onion to your belt


----------



## iamaom (Aug 28, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Baby Boomers are like 60 - 75. I doubt there that many dudes that old on this forum let alone in this thread.


Boomer no longer refers to age, it is a state of mind.


----------



## StevenC (Aug 28, 2021)

iamaom said:


> Boomer no longer refers to age, it is a state of mind.


Not knowing this is the most boomer thing.


----------



## Louis Cypher (Aug 28, 2021)

Is it possible then to be a woke snowflake cancelling boomer? Or is that too many stupid random words in one go to insult someone with? I dont watch Fox News or read the Daily Mail enough to know if I'm down with all the cool kids on this?


----------



## Marked Man (Aug 28, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Basically, Rita wants more money, and Dean doesn't want to make a million import Dime models anymore.
> 
> Dime didn't have any kids. There is no "legacy", it's just Rita's pocketbook at this point.



You have to have kids to have a "legacy"? His music is is Legacy.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 28, 2021)

Louis Cypher said:


> Is it possible then to be a woke snowflake cancelling boomer? Or is that too many stupid random words in one go to insult someone with? I dont watch Fox News or read the Daily Mail enough to know if I'm down with all the cool kids on this?


Most of the cool kids are so contradictory, that the mental gymnastics one must witness for them to attempt to make sense is baffling and tiresome. I suggest thinking for yourself and telling the "cool kids" to fuck off.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 28, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> You have to have kids to have a "legacy"? His music is is Legacy.


Unfortunately, most of his legacy that is worth anything is out of print and treated like red headed step child, with the one member who was there from start to finish dismissing it as if it didn't happen.


----------



## RevelGTR (Aug 28, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Unfortunately, most of his legacy that is worth anything is out of print and treated like red headed step child, with the one member who was there from start to finish dismissing it as if it didn't happen.


I get that people dig the glam era but the era of the band that sold 9 million albums, encouraged countless people to pick up an instrument, and was a cornerstone of influence for an entire generation of heavy bands isn’t worth anything?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 28, 2021)

RevelGTR said:


> I get that people dig the glam era but the era of the band that sold 9 million albums, encouraged countless people to pick up an instrument, and was a cornerstone of influence for an entire generation of heavy bands isn’t worth anything?


You mean the era that became a joke of itself, jumped the shark, and one of Dime's best friends in the business said was silly, essentially? Is that the era you are referring to?


----------



## RevelGTR (Aug 28, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> You mean the era that became a joke of itself, jumped the shark, and one of Dime's best friends in the business said was silly, essentially? Is that the era you are referring to?


You’re right, two meaningless, subjective judgements and “a guy said it was silly” disprove my points. Great job, thanks for setting me straight. “Became a joke of itself” is absolute poetry by the way.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 28, 2021)

RevelGTR said:


> You’re right, two meaningless, subjective judgements and “a guy said it was silly” disprove my points. Great job, thanks for setting me straight. “Became a joke of itself” is absolute poetry by the way.


Large masses of people like shit. Selling 9 million albums means a lot for your bank account, but there are better bands who have unfortunately sold less. The tough guy schtick with the "we gotta out heavy our last album, no matter how ridiculously silly it comes off" isn't worth shit.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Aug 28, 2021)

I don't even know wtf you two are fighting about.

I bet Dime wishes he had the lifespan this thread does, Jesus Christ...and the thread turned out to be as ridiculous as I'm sure he'd have been were he still here.


----------



## Marked Man (Aug 28, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Unfortunately, most of his legacy that is worth anything is out of print and treated like red headed step child, with the one member who was there from start to finish dismissing it as if it didn't happen.



A musical legacy is not measured in dollars.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 28, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> You have to have kids to have a "legacy"? His music is is Legacy.



I was talking about where the money from his posthumous endorsements is going. He didn't have any kids to support, any charities or endowments to enrich, and it's not even going to keep his music in print.


----------



## Accoun (Aug 29, 2021)

Basically, he says that as a Dimebag fan, he refuses to make any kind of directly Dime guitar for Solar because it wouldn't feel right, but if the estate wants to ask him for tips about setting up a guitar company, he'd be happy to consult. Seems like he believes her overall.

Also, he says that unrelated to that he had an X-shape in the works for a good while, so he mentions it now because he didn't want to get lumped in with the whole situation and contradict the above.


----------



## Gain_Junkie93 (Aug 29, 2021)

Itt: Angry manlets whose HS gf left them for some metalcore bro with a razorback.


----------



## MrBouleDeBowling (Aug 29, 2021)

I'm excited af for that Solar X model


----------



## MrWulf (Aug 31, 2021)

Please Solar makes an X with 7 string, neck thru and SS frets. I'll even forgive you for that cursed 12th inlay too


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 31, 2021)

Plezz to make X'ey time with Solar.


----------



## Andromalia (Aug 31, 2021)

Louis Cypher said:


> Is it possible then to be a woke snowflake cancelling boomer? Or is that too many stupid random words in one go to insult someone with? I dont watch Fox News or read the Daily Mail enough to know if I'm down with all the cool kids on this?


Well, you can technically be a gay communist catholic jew in addition to all that so who knows.


----------



## pipelineaudio (Aug 31, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Step 1: move to Indonesia
> Step 2: solar is no longer an import



Lulz, that's pretty much how I saw it too...the special pleading some of these guys do can be nutters


----------



## pipelineaudio (Aug 31, 2021)

VGK17 said:


> Pretty sure that unless you're in Europe there aren't any unless you find a used one.


Which ones wouldn't be imports in europe?


----------



## VGK17 (Aug 31, 2021)

pipelineaudio said:


> Which ones wouldn't be imports in europe?


Huh?


----------



## Emperoff (Sep 13, 2021)

pipelineaudio said:


> Which ones wouldn't be imports in europe?



All of them. Europeans don't name guitars made outside their countries "imports".


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Oct 29, 2021)

I pulled the trigger on a cheap Korean dime just in case. I still have my USA blue stealth on order but I always wanted a slime. Plays just like my Korean Washburn stealth I had 15 years ago.


----------



## Esp Griffyn (Oct 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> All of them. Europeans don't name guitars made outside their countries "imports".



Yes they do, if the item was manufactured outside of their country and imported in across the customs border.


----------



## Emperoff (Oct 30, 2021)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Yes they do, if the item was manufactured outside of their country and imported in across the customs border.



Nah, they don't. I have never heard one single person do it. But feel free to argue about it (with someone else).


----------



## Andromalia (Oct 31, 2021)

"Import" is a term I have only seen used by americans or people trying to fit in in american forums. In europe we usually call guitars by their brands and country of origin. "indo Ibanez", "Mexican Fender" etc. In my days the big french brands (ie, Lag and Vigier) didn't have asian factories so there was no need to differentiate.


----------



## manu80 (Oct 31, 2021)

Exact. We say the brand of the guitar and add Jap/Mex/indo at the end when we wanna be specific. No import term in France


----------



## StevenC (Oct 31, 2021)

To me, import is a relative term. Schecter is a US brand so their Diamond series are imports. ESP are a Japanese brand, so their USA series are imports. Eastman are a Chinese brand, so they only have a domestic line.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 31, 2021)

I’m happy to refer to a PRS Private Stock, or a Master Built Fender Custom Shop guitar as an ‘import’. And, of course, a USA Gibson, ‘play import’...

Americans should therefore refer to the highly coveted British guitars, things like Daemonesses and Blackmachines as ‘imports’...


----------



## c7spheres (Oct 31, 2021)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I’m happy to refer to a PRS Private Stock, or a Master Built Fender Custom Shop guitar as an ‘import’. And, of course, a USA Gibson, ‘play import’...
> 
> Americans should therefore refer to the highly coveted British guitars, things like Daemonesses and Blackmachines as ‘imports’...


 They are imports if importing to America. Everything is an import that's brought from one country to another. They're also exports.


----------



## aesthyrian (Oct 31, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> All of them. Europeans don't name guitars made outside their countries "imports".



Probably has much to do with the many bordering countries in close proximity in comparison to the U.S.? When something is from a couple hundred miles away and didn't have to cross any oceans it most likely seems a bit less "imported".


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Oct 31, 2021)

We should agree on our lexicon. We all know what it means: guitars built by cheap labor in ______ countries. You fill the blank


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 31, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> We should agree on our lexicon. We all know what it means: guitars built by cheap labor in ______ countries. You fill the blank



You're not wrong. 

That's what the euphemism of "import" was replacing: "cheap". 

Back in the 90's when legacy American brands started doing more globally sourced guitars the reps used to stress using the term "import" vs. "cheaper". It was a term more associated with higher end European goods. 

Before that folks used to just say "Japanese", as that's where most cheaper guitars came from.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 31, 2021)

damn i had their korean flame razerback that i sold for $400 with hardshell case to gc 
fk 
it would've been a good flip


----------



## mmr007 (Oct 31, 2021)

so…..are guitars having a woke moment now? Do we have to be concerned about how we refer to them so someone isnt offended?


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Nov 1, 2021)

Funny thing on that Korean dime I got. Carlino guitars had it in stock as well as music zoo. I asked both if they’d do 1199….Carlino responded like I should be grateful he has one in stock and how rare they are because of the shipping bottlenecks and wouldn’t budge on price. Music zoo just said sure we’ll do 1199 shipped.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Nov 1, 2021)

mmr007 said:


> View attachment 99496
> 
> so…..are guitars having a woke moment now? Do we have to be concerned about how we refer to them so someone isnt offended?



Who's offended? We're just talking about the minutiae of it and how it's referred to differently in some regions. 

Just interesting to think about.


----------



## mmr007 (Nov 1, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Who's offended? We're just talking about the minutiae of it and how it's referred to differently in some regions.
> 
> Just interesting to think about.


It was just a joke that didn’t stick the landing earlier in the thread they were arguing about whether or not guitars can be called imports because in europe they dont have imports.


----------



## ArtDecade (Nov 1, 2021)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Americans should therefore refer to the highly coveted British guitars, things like Daemonesses and Blackmachines as ‘imports’...



But we don't covet them all that much. 99/100 American musicians have no idea that those are even brand names. This changes to 92/100 is we are talking about American metal musicians. 

38.8% of all stats are made up on the spot.


----------



## works0fheart (Nov 1, 2021)

Said it before and I'll say it again. I don't really care where my guitar is made or whatever, as long as it plays well. I've played just as many American-made instruments that have felt like trash as I have ones that played well. Same with most other countries. I'll take my Japanese made Jacksons and ESPs over most other guitars out there though. 

I know this is all subjective, but there's a lot of snobbery now days when it comes to where guitars are made, and it more often than not feels misplaced.


----------



## bostjan (Nov 1, 2021)

works0fheart said:


> there's a lot of snobbery now days when it comes to where guitars are made


Huh? I'd say that there is a lot less snobbery about it now than there was in the 2000's, or even less so than the 1990's, and less still than the 1980's. And it's been earned. My first guitar was a mid-1980's Hondo that was made in Korea and was basically a piece of firewood. Harmonys and Magnums from the same time period were more or less equally shitty. I feel like Korean guitars by the mid-1990's were pretty good as a general rule, and now they are actually really good, as the cheaper stuff is now coming from two waves of developing industrial nations behind them... next up Ibanez's Zinc label guitars, made in Somalia or Congo... or wherever it's cheapest to exploit workers.


----------



## mmr007 (Nov 1, 2021)

"When Fender Mexico sends its strats, they're not sending their best...they're sending strats that have lots of problems and they are bringing those problems....and some I assume, are good strats" -Trump 2015


----------



## mmr007 (Nov 1, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> But we don't covet them all that much. 99/100 American musicians have no idea that those are even brand names. This changes to 92/100 is we are talking about American metal musicians.
> 
> 38.8% of all stats are made up on the spot.


I always heard it was 38.9% and I believed it. Now I'm not sure which one is made up.


----------



## ArtDecade (Nov 1, 2021)

mmr007 said:


> "When Fender Mexico sends its strats, they're not sending their best...they're sending strats that have lots of problems and they are bringing those problems....and some I assume, are good strats" -Trump 2015


----------



## mmr007 (Nov 1, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


>


Can a gif go in a signature?


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Nov 1, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Who's offended? We're just talking about the minutiae of it and how it's referred to differently in some regions.
> 
> Just interesting to think about.



Just from how people worded it, calling specific guitars imports definitely stepped on some toes.

Import guitars are built better than they ever have, and are more widely available in several different tastes and configurations. It's a good thing all around, but yeah I will absolutely remind myself that I'm playing an "import" Strandberg when I pick one up and remind myself what they're asking for those guitars.

The demographic that benefits the most from the recent change are beginners, the amount of choice and price points available for genuinely cool guitars is incredible. But you won't catch me paying asking prices for some brands/models and yes country of origin will always carry some weight in that


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Nov 1, 2021)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Just from how people worded it, calling specific guitars imports definitely stepped on some toes.
> 
> Import guitars are built better than they ever have, and are more widely available in several different tastes and configurations. It's a good thing all around, but yeah I will absolutely remind myself that I'm playing an "import" Strandberg when I pick one up and remind myself what they're asking for those guitars.
> 
> The demographic that benefits the most from the recent change are beginners, the amount of choice and price points available for genuinely cool guitars is incredible. But you won't catch me paying asking prices for some brands/models and yes country of origin will always carry some weight in that



I think folks were just amused about how Americentric a term it is.


----------



## spudmunkey (Nov 1, 2021)

In the US, "import" has been an analog for cheap/low quality, and replaced the word "foreign" which was widely used for cars, especially when the first Japanese cars came to the US...and it would have been accurate back then. Even then, though, it also (mostly) ignored anything durable/reliable/luxurious.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Nov 1, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Huh? I'd say that there is a lot less snobbery about it now than there was in the 2000's, or even less so than the 1990's, and less still than the 1980's. And it's been earned. My first guitar was a mid-1980's Hondo that was made in Korea and was basically a piece of firewood. Harmonys and Magnums from the same time period were more or less equally shitty. I feel like Korean guitars by the mid-1990's were pretty good as a general rule, and now they are actually really good, as the cheaper stuff is now coming from two waves of developing industrial nations behind them... next up Ibanez's Zinc label guitars, made in Somalia or Congo... or wherever it's cheapest to exploit workers.


Ibanez Pig Iron Label.


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Nov 1, 2021)

bostjan said:


> . Harmonys and Magnums from the same time period were more or less equally shitty.



That's weird. Every Harmony I have ever played has been absolutely insanely good. I'd imagine guitar techs have sorted them over their 40 year life span a few times maybe.


----------



## Emperoff (Nov 1, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think folks were just amused about how Americentric a term it is.



Basically this.

Of course you rarely ever hear someone calling a Mayones, Skervessen, Blackmachine or Daemoness guitar an _"import"_. This leads to:


MaxOfMetal said:


> That's what the euphemism of "import" was replacing: "cheap".
> Back in the 90's when legacy American brands started doing more globally sourced guitars the reps used to stress using the term "import" vs. "cheaper".




I think the main reason why europeans don't use the term is the lack of actual guitar factories in europe. Almost every non-boutique brand manufactures either in the US or in Asia (so basically pretty much everything would be an import to us). So as someone mentioned above we just refer to them by their country of manufacture.


----------



## Ataraxia2320 (Nov 1, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I think the main reason why europeans don't use the term is the lack of actual guitar factories in europe. Almost every non-boutique brand manufactures either in the US or in Asia (so basically pretty much everything would be an import to us). So as someone mentioned above we just refer to them by their country of manufacture.



Nailed it.


----------



## mmr007 (Nov 1, 2021)

Might I add my 2 cents (not speaking for Europeans and their attitude towards the term import because I am not qualified) but I would agree that the term "import" has a lil bit of stank on it....but for me I use the term differently. I don't consider ESP or MIJ Ibanez imports in the traditional sense because both are Japanese companies making Japanese made guitars that I am able to buy here. But for LTD and non MIJ Ibanez (ie those made in Korea, Indonesia, China or Vietnam) I consider them imports because the manufacturing was exported. Same with Marshall. They are made in UK and shipped here. I don't consider them imports because they are a UK company. But for all the amps they make in Vietnam...those are imports....to me. I'm not saying it is a correct viewpoint but that's what it is and I think it leads to looking down on an arm of a brand if that brand has outsourced manufacturing to another country completely.

I guess a weird example is the old Red Bear amplifiers. I think they were made in Russia. Always wanted one. Never saw it as an import because from start to finish it was a Russian amp...for sale here on my local internets. I have no reason to hold Russian musical equipment in high esteem because they aren't really known for that. But (I think the brand is dead) if it were revived and manufacturing was done in Vietnam) I would view it as an import. My reasoning doesn't make sense and I need my meds now.


----------



## Andromalia (Nov 2, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think folks were just amused about how Americentric a term it is.


Actually, I was amused that someone thought such an americentric term was believed by some americans to be used by everybody else.


----------



## BornToLooze (Nov 3, 2021)

Honestly, the only guitar I call an import is my Edwards, because I actually, you know, imported it.


----------



## Emperoff (Nov 3, 2021)

I once dissasembled a guitar I bought in another country and took it home inside my cabin suitcase. Does that count as smuggling?


----------



## mmr007 (Nov 4, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I once dissasembled a guitar I bought in another country and took it home inside my cabin suitcase. Does that count as smuggling?







...to answer your question


----------



## spudmunkey (Nov 4, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I once dissasembled a guitar I bought in another country and took it home inside my cabin suitcase. Does that count as smuggling?


It depends. Is "my cabin suitcase" a pet name for your butthole?


----------



## neurosis (Nov 4, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I once dissasembled a guitar I bought in another country and took it home inside my cabin suitcase. Does that count as smuggling?



–Sir, what's in your bag. Anything to declare?

–Parts.


----------



## Perge (May 23, 2022)

Necrobump! Saw this on Facebook, apparently it's setup at the welcome to Rockville festival thing.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (May 23, 2022)

Perge said:


> View attachment 108110
> 
> Necrobump! Saw this on Facebook, apparently it's setup at the welcome to Rockville festival thing.



It just looks like a merch tent version of Dime's online store. 









Official Dimebag Darrell Store


Dimebag Darrell Store



dimebaghardware.com





They go to festivals and stuff apparently. 

No, not trashy at all, and nothing about it seems like why Rita was kept out of the picture by family for so long.


----------



## RG503 (May 23, 2022)

rita haney carving up dimebags legacy for a few bucks, because she refuses to get a job.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (May 23, 2022)

I hope the Dime tent has a deep fryer.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (May 23, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> No, not trashy at all, and nothing about it seems like why Rita was kept out of the picture by family for so long.


Never heard this. Care to elaborate or link to something about it?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (May 23, 2022)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Never heard this. Care to elaborate or link to something about it?



Dime had no will, and his estate belonged to his parents. While involved somewhat for the first few years, Vinnie (with their father's blessing) controlled the rights to Dime's estate, not Rita. 

It wasn't until after Vinnie died, 2018, and with Dime's dad now in his 80's, that Rita was back in some sort of control.

That's why the Dean lawsuit is happening, and there's a shiny new merch store, and all kinds of merchandise, Rita needs a buck. 

It's mentioned in some of the filings, on both sides, of the lawsuit.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (May 23, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Dime had no will, and his estate belonged to his parents. While involved somewhat for the first few years, Vinnie (with their father's blessing) controlled the rights to Dime's estate, not Rita.
> 
> It wasn't until after Vinnie died, 2018, and with Dime's dad now in his 80's, that Rita was back in some sort of control.
> 
> ...


Gross.


----------



## Adieu (May 23, 2022)

RG503 said:


> rita haney carving up dimebags legacy for a few bucks, because she refuses to get a job.



It's the American way


----------



## soul_lip_mike (May 29, 2022)

Did you guys see that news about “Dime Guitarz?” Just saw it on Sunday with Ola.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (May 29, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Did you guys see that news about “Dime Guitarz?” Just saw it on Sunday with Ola.


Almost as trailer trash chic as Vinnie Vincent poorly shredding atop a Creatures era tank over backing tracks because he gets along with no one. Lol


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Jul 18, 2022)

Evan Rubinson Ousted as Dean Guitars & Armadillo Enterprises CEO: Accused of Embezzling Over $420,000


In what was only a matter of time, Evan Rubinson was removed as the CEO of Armadillo Enterprises/Dean Guitars by his own mother accused of embezzling over $420,000. Pam Keris-Robinson has filed a lawsuit against her son in Hillsborough County, Florida Circuit Court outlying how Evan stole from...




allthatshreds.com





The thot plickens?


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## chipchappy (Jul 18, 2022)

oh good, a distraction from the other Pantera-related dumpster fire everyones talking about


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 18, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Evan Rubinson Ousted as Dean Guitars & Armadillo Enterprises CEO: Accused of Embezzling Over $420,000
> 
> 
> In what was only a matter of time, Evan Rubinson was removed as the CEO of Armadillo Enterprises/Dean Guitars by his own mother accused of embezzling over $420,000. Pam Keris-Robinson has filed a lawsuit against her son in Hillsborough County, Florida Circuit Court outlying how Evan stole from...
> ...


This is so fake lmao.









Former CEO of Dean Guitars Evan Rubinson Is Starting ‘ERA Instruments’, Telling People He ‘Quit’ And Wasn’t ‘Fired’


As we reported a few days ago, Former Dean Guitars CEO Evan Rubinson was ousted out of Armadillo Headquarters in Tampa over allegations of him embezzling over $420,000 from his father's trust. It's now being confirmed to us that Rubinson is reaching out to endorsees that he never was fired and...




allthatshreds.com





 so fucking faaaaaaaaaaaaaake


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## soul_lip_mike (Jul 19, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This is so fake lmao.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I found this but I don't have a subscription to download the docs: https://unicourt.com/case/fl-picc-evan-rubinson-vs-pamela-anne-keris-et-al-704642

One would think the court docs would be available publicly somewhere if true? However that link says Evan was suing pamela, not the other way around and started in January.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 19, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I found this but I don't have a subscription to download the docs: https://unicourt.com/case/fl-picc-evan-rubinson-vs-pamela-anne-keris-et-al-704642
> 
> One would think the court docs would be available publicly somewhere if true? However that link says Evan was suing pamela, not the other way around and started in January.


The "articles" on allthatshreds are click bait and troll farming. At the moment, there aren't any other outlets reporting that Evan is getting sued.


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## sirbuh (Jul 19, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Dime had no will, and his estate belonged to his parents. While involved somewhat for the first few years, Vinnie (with their father's blessing) controlled the rights to Dime's estate, not Rita.
> 
> It wasn't until after Vinnie died, 2018, and with Dime's dad now in his 80's, that Rita was back in some sort of control.
> 
> ...


thinking about this a bit more, tx is a common law state which unless dime went out of his way to exclude her she could claim the estate


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 19, 2022)

sirbuh said:


> thinking about this a bit more, tx is a common law state which unless dime went out of his way to exclude her she could claim the estate



There are still standards to meet. Cohabitation isn't the sole requirement. Not only is a will recommended, she'd have to prove that at some point there was a "promise or declaration of marriage" or something like that, or have referred to each other as married. Even if one of those occurred, it would be difficult to prove, especially so long down the road.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 19, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> The "articles" on allthatshreds are click bait and troll farming. At the moment, there aren't any other outlets reporting that Evan is getting sued.


Exactly. It's a 5 day old article. No one else said shit.

If you Google it, the only thing that comes up is AllThatShreds, a deleted TGP thread, and posts on Reddit from ATS themselves. 

And the "Era Instruments" thing in that second article was them lurking his LinkedIn and finding a company called "Era Brands" and writing a bullshit article based around that


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 3, 2022)

Just got word that my Dean Dime Southern Cross has arrived at Chondro. Phew! I know Randall assured me it would still be built but until I actually got confirmation it was here I was a tiny bit worried something could happen that would prevent it from coming through.


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## possumkiller (Sep 4, 2022)

So is dime jumping to Gibson now that Dean is going under?


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## ClownShoes (Sep 4, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> So is dime jumping to Gibson now that Dean is going under?


Dean Zelinsky will be making guitars that the estate has the rights to.

Just waiting to get the Dime-3 (Washburn era shape).


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 6, 2022)

Should be here Thursday


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## WarMachine (Sep 6, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Should be here Thursday


FUCK...YES!!!


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 8, 2022)

She has arrived!


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