# Piezo w/acoustic processor in action



## dr_kotasz (Oct 25, 2011)

Hi all!

Do anyone any experience about using a piezo equipped guitar with an acoustic processor (for example: Yamaha ag-stomp, BOSS ad-x) in live situation?

I plan to buy/trade (rather trade) a piezo equipped guitar in the near future.
I want to simplify my gear, so I decided to change my guitars to one guitar, which is a piezo equipped 6 string one will be. I hope. 

I think about one of the following guitars:
- Ibanez S/RG 620x/1620x/1820x/2020x (or something like this) (my fav. guitar is my Ibanez JPM but it has no piezo :-( )
- Music Man JP (the neck shape is unconfortable for my big hands, but the sound is good! Particulary the BFR ones)
- Parker Fly (great neck, confortable and unique, musical-style-plus shape)
- waiting for any suggestions. 

The thought is to use a two routed signal with an ABY pedal.
1. electric sounds - normal half stack
2. acoustic sounds - piezo + acoustic processor (through line w/ PA)

Do you have experience if this idea is workable or not? I just don't want to bring my acoustic guitar to the concerts.
Can any of this acoustic processors make a usable acoustic sound through their line out? Or it's a must to have an acoustic amp? Or any more idea?

Thanks for the answers in advance!


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## JStraitiff (Oct 25, 2011)

Put the piezo through a di box. You can still just go through your half stack as long as its super clean using mono and turn off the magnetics. You might want to use a pedal like a boss AC-3 if you're actually trying to make it sound like an acoustic. Often times people are confused with the function of piezo pickups, they do give you an acoustic tone.. but of the current guitar you are using. So its not going to sound like an acoustic guitar because its not one. Its going to give you an acoustic representation of what the strings are doing and be colored strongly by the woods of the guitar etc. If you add an acoustic simulator it will probably sound pretty good though.

You could also install/have installed a graphtech ghost or fishman piezo system into one of your current guitars.


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## Explorer (Oct 26, 2011)

As mentioned, use an acoustic or keyboard amp, rather than an electric guitar amp.

I've owned piezo-equipped electric and acoustic guitars. I had tried those inexpensive "acoustic simulator" pedals, the ones which are the single stompboxes. 

And then I tried the Boss AD-8. 

It gives the body and string noise you expect from an acoustic, even from an electric. It sounds great.

I recommend you try one at a store near you. Just plug in an electric, use the A or A+B output(s) (not the electric output), and experiment with the body and string enhance, as well as the EQ. 

This pedal satisfied my need for an 8-string acoustic sound, as well as a bunch of other things (including acoustic upright bass). For around $200 used, it's also cheaper than an 8-stirng acoustic, and lets one use what one already owns for that acoustic sound.

Good luck!

(For what it's worth, I've never used the AD-3, so I can't say if it's as great or not, but it's worth a shot if you run across one, no?)


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## JStraitiff (Oct 26, 2011)

Is that right? The AD-8 looks like a cool unit. I've used the AC-3 in guitar center before and it does a pretty good job giving you that full tone and resonance of an acoustic guitar. It looks to me that this one is something of an upgraded version similar to that of an RC-2 to an RC-20.


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## TheKindred (Oct 26, 2011)

I've used my 2027x piezos with the acoustic patches of a GT-10 both sent to a PA as well as through the clean channel of my Engl. I preferred the amp to the PA but I am currently in the market to test using a decent acoustic amp. Ideally I'd like to run 2 separate chains but it's not an option logistically right now.

I found the PA a bit bright for my tastes as is but a little EQing balanced it right out. I'd really like to try with a proper acoustic simulator since the gt-10 does water everything down a bit. That said, I've been able to get some very satisfactory acoustic-like sound from the 2027x without any additional processing.


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## Explorer (Oct 26, 2011)

Regarding the AC-2 and AC-2, as well as the Biyang Woody acoustic simulator...

When I used to play and program synthesizer before there were more physical modelers out there, I would use a short reverb with an EQ on it to simulate the body resonance, and then run that in a larger reverb.

The AC-2 really got that body resonance thing down... but, when trying to add that space to the sound, wound up adding what sounds like a hiss (basically what you might hear in a room, similar to what you'd hear by holding a seashell to your ear). You could get by with it, and it might sound a little better adding a little reverb to it.

The Biyang Woody was the result of a DIY-er doing some mods to the AC-2 to improve the response, even though it's a bit hissy. The modder put his mods on the net, and then Biyang built a pedal around the circuit. (Ah, the perils of putting something in the public domain!)

The AC-3 took the core of the AC-2, modeled it, and then added the reverb. It only needs one box, but it still has the hiss.

And then I tried the AD-8, and it sounded great. I think its circuit/model is better, because it doesn't have the same close "air" hiss as the stompboxes. 

If you liked the AC-3, you'll likely love the AD-8.


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## KingAenarion (Oct 27, 2011)

Fishman Aura Pedal

DTar Mama Bear....


Both of these smoke the AD-8 and leave it for dead in the "sounds like an acoustic with a mic in front not a piezo" department.


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## Explorer (Oct 27, 2011)

I had the Aura, but got rid of it. It sounded too... phasey, and didn't work for my purposes (other instruments besides acoustic guitar). I got a tone which I'd label as just adequate, and it wasn't so good at the upright bass tones and 8-string acoustic tones I get with the AD, and didn't do justice to my various hammered dulcimers.

I've heard good things about the MB, but am not currently lookimg to replace the two Boss units I use to cover, say, the two dulcimer pickups I run in stereo....


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## dr_kotasz (Nov 1, 2011)

Guys!

Thank you for the answers! I got some new idea to think about. For example, I didn't heard of the DTar acoustic amp before. It's a great sounding stuff as i watch the videos on the homepage. I hope it isn't too expensive. I'll check the ebay


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## KingAenarion (Nov 1, 2011)

Explorer said:


> I had the Aura, but got rid of it. It sounded too... phasey, and didn't work for my purposes (other instruments besides acoustic guitar). I got a tone which I'd label as just adequate, and it wasn't so good at the upright bass tones and 8-string acoustic tones I get with the AD, and didn't do justice to my various hammered dulcimers.
> 
> I've heard good things about the MB, but am not currently lookimg to replace the two Boss units I use to cover, say, the two dulcimer pickups I run in stereo....



I have the Aura. I was going to get the Mama bear, because it's incredible. A friend bought one and I was blown away (I sometimes borrow it).

Both units I've found to be really good.... for Acoustic guitars. Because that's what it's supposed to do. It's almost like an impulse so to speak in that it's an image of a real acoustic. I can imagine them sucking for dulcimers or upright basses yes. A normal acoustic preamp would be far better (I can imagine the Boss's being very good for those)

I wanted to buy the Mama Bear, but the Fishman itself is far more tank than the D-Tar. I wouldn't use the D-Tar live unless it was a singer songwriter gig or I could have it offstage with a wireless in a rack or something. Also at $800 I would be pretty paranoid.

I'll probably get one around the same time I get an AxeFX... which is in the distant future


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## Explorer (Nov 1, 2011)

Hey, KA (as well as anyone else who might know), just a quick question... Since the AxeFX can do so much more, does it have any acoustic simulators? It just seems that it does so much, it woud be surprising if there wasn't an acoustic simulator as well...


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## KingAenarion (Nov 2, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Hey, KA (as well as anyone else who might know), just a quick question... Since the AxeFX can do so much more, does it have any acoustic simulators? It just seems that it does so much, it woud be surprising if there wasn't an acoustic simulator as well...



I honestly don't know...


I don't think it does. But if it had one, particularly when running FRFR that would just be about 10 kinds of awesome.


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## Trespass (Nov 2, 2011)

Part of the equation is the strings you guys are using. Having 9s with the best acoustic simiulators in the world isn't going to sound like it has much body, just a like a real acoustic with 9s isn't going to have much body.


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## dr_kotasz (Nov 2, 2011)

As I read the AXE's User Manual, it doesn't have any acoustic amp sim.
I don't believe... could it be that they forget it??


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## jeb (Nov 22, 2011)

Hey folks been years i posted here ! saw this thread I have to share my setup.

I have a silhouette special, I installed a graphtech ghost system,
piezo out to an aphex acoustic xciter to an shitty old behringer compressor to a shitty old Alesis quadraverb (for little reverb) to the mixer.

Cheap ass setup with awesome result!

I tried the mama bear and I found the aphex acoustic xciter better.

I always get great comments on my piezo sound after each gig. I'll probably upgrade my setup with this tho :
Applied Research & Technology: Tube Mic Preamps


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## dr_kotasz (Mar 11, 2012)

Interesting site...
Current Mods

I think about modify my Ibanez JPM to a piezo equipped one. I mean to a MusicMan JP-like-equipment, because i prefer the Ibanez JP.
Than use a Fishman Aura to transform the raw piezo sound to an acoustic-like sound for live applications.
Of course, in studio, i'll use real acoustic guitars.

Opinions?


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Mar 11, 2012)

@dr_kotasz
That's what Petrucci does, I believe he prefers preset 13 on the Aura.

I plan to get one at some point as it's a really great unit, it's features are complete.

On this whole piezo acoustic thing; I've got a few great acoustic's, piezo's really don't do them justice. Strange thing is, audiences are used to hearing them, with their harsh and brash sounds, even the acoustic players are abandoning the sound of their guitars for the convenience of the piezo. 

The strangest thing for me is when I'm in the audience and someone produces acoustic esque tones from electric (or acoustic, as mentioned earlier) it might as well be played on tape. Without an acoustic instrument on stage it is visually out of context to be hearing acoustic. By producing an actual acoustic guitar, which can be cheaper than getting an electric equipped properly, you give your audience the visual they expect for such a sound and they get to see a bit more of your guitar collection, any excuse really. 

But the reality is convenience is more important than tone.

I had some JP's with piezo's, they sounded fine for what they were. Very useable and better than some acoustic guitars piezo response. The Aura should be able to get very nice sounds from them. Good for playing Learning to Live off Images...


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## dr_kotasz (Mar 16, 2012)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> @dr_kotasz
> That's what Petrucci does, I believe he prefers preset 13 on the Aura.
> 
> I plan to get one at some point as it's a really great unit, it's features are complete.
> ...



I think, I want to do almost the same thing.
I don't want to bring an acoustic on a gig. I have a Furch acoustic, it's not a cheap one. I'm afraid to bring it with me, because it can easilly damaged, etc. And it have no piezo.
Easier to bring one axe, which is piezo equipped.
Nowadays i'm thinking about a Parker Fly... such a beauty!
I wonder if i get one in a great (means: cheap, of course :-D) price... hmmm...


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## dr_kotasz (Oct 7, 2012)

Well, ok...

Finally I traded an Ibanez RG-2020X, 6string baby...  (Pics made by the former owner.), and a Fishman Aura pedal (the older, metal housed one! - this version).

I tried it at my project's rehearsal, and find it marvellous! 
The best sound comes with a bit of reverb on it.

Oh, yeah!!!!!


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