# Massachusetts Metalcore: How'd it Happen?



## cichra (Jul 10, 2012)

Does anyone know the story, or any stories, about how it is that so many American metal/metalcore bands that thrived in the mid-2000's were from Massachusetts? Killswitch Engage, All that Remains, The Red Chord, Unearth, Acacia Strain, Shadows Fall... all from MA. 

Was there a person/promoter/club/magazine/label around which this scene developed?

I know Adam D from Killswitch worked with a lot of these bands... was he the focal point for this scene?

Maybe there is no scene? Just a coincidence that all these bands are from MA? 

Wondered about this for a while and would love any info. Sorry if this has been discussed before; I did some forum searches and other searches and haven't really found anything.


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## NovaReaper (Jul 10, 2012)

lol are you really asking how music developes regionally? this has happened since the beginning of time, recent examples include the evolution of jazz and rock n roll in new orleans, grunge in seattle, heavy metal in england, hardcore punk in mass. and new york, and i wont even get into death and black metal because those genres created an enormous diaspora of diverse sounds throughout the world that can't be as easily expressed as some of the other genres listed.

tldr yes there is a metalcore scene from Massachusetts.


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## ittoa666 (Jul 10, 2012)

It's a legitimate question. I could see why someone would want to know this.


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## MFB (Jul 10, 2012)

> Maybe there is no scene? Just a coincidence that all these bands are from MA?



Don't let anyone fool you into thinking there isn't a scene for it here in MA, because there DEFINITELY is

My guess is that it had something to do with the punk scene starting in New York and the whole CGBG-as-the-be-all-end-all-venue, but us being from Massachusetts - we hate NY and all it entails so we put our own spin on it and made it our own. From there it was just what was popular here vs. traditional punk style music and it became "our" thing and is still that way for the most part. I remember seeing Unearth play with a handful of local bands in a basement venue and it was a great show, and it just kind of harkens back to the days of when it was first starting out.

Certain regions have moments and that one just happened to be ours


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## cichra (Jul 10, 2012)

NovaReaper said:


> lol are you really asking how music developes regionally? this has happened since the beginning of time, recent examples include the evolution of jazz and rock n roll in new orleans, grunge in seattle, heavy metal in england, hardcore punk in mass. and new york, and i wont even get into death and black metal because those genres created an enormous diaspora of diverse sounds throughout the world that can't be as easily expressed as some of the other genres listed.
> 
> tldr yes there is a metalcore scene from Massachusetts.


 
Agreed that the general question of how music develops regionally is a BIG QUESTION and the answer would be tl;dr. I'm asking about a SPECIFIC region's music and wondering if anyone has any information about its development.


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## artmachine (Jul 10, 2012)

I don't think the original punk "movement" had much to do with it. Punk like the ramones and sex pistols, as much as they're very well liked, kind of failed to make punk rock an intimate, accessible thing, which in turn would create a very large scene. The emergence of hardcore punk is really what lit the match for bands to start quickly and hit the ground running. Not to mention that hardcore has influenced almost all forms of extreme metal. Boston had probably the third or fourth most important hardcore scene in the early 80's and as metallic hardcore became much more prominent in the 90's, I think things just shifted in a new direction(to an extent) as they always do. I don't particularly like the bands you listed, but I'm sure those bands take an influence from AT LEAST the scene that the early boston hardcore bands carved out. I'd also say that new england as a whole has always had a fairly active scene because this area is much more condensed than many other areas. You can go from one big city to the next in under two hours.

Boston hardcore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_Massachusetts


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## Semichastny (Jul 10, 2012)

I can't really say the origins for Metalcore with certainty but one of the earliest bands to be straight up Deathcore was "Deadwater Drowning" and its members went on to be in a lot of the popular/influential bands of first-wave Deathcore from Mass. & New England. You will find a lot of that, bands who's members broke off and created regional scenes based on a very general or specific sound from the band they were in. 

This is from the WIKI
"While the band was short-lived, its members went on to form notable hardcore and extreme metal bands. Vocalist Nate Johnson also joined a variety of bands including Buckhunter, Since the Flood, Burnt by the Sun, Premonitions of War, the_Network, Fit For An Autopsy, and Through the Eyes of the Dead. Bassist Seth Coleman went on to join The Acacia Strain as well as Buckhunter and Fit For An Autopsy with Nate. Both Nate and Seth joined guitarist Steve Whalen in forming The Final Battle together.
Drummer Jon Dow and guitarist Jonny Fay both performed in The Red Chord. Fay also opened his own recording studio Backyard Studios where he has recorded artists such as The Red Chord and fellow Metal Blade label-mates Whitechapel, among others. Drummer Moe Watson went on to perform with War On Our Shores, Mercury Switch, and Running With Karma, as well as later joining The Final Battle."


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## MFB (Jul 10, 2012)

^ Snap, I saw Buckhunter perform with Unearth and those dude's are fucking awesome. One of the few bands from the metalcore scene I actually enjoyed watching.


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## ArrowHead (Jul 10, 2012)

Boston gets too much credit. All these bands actually came from Rhode Island, Maine, Boston, Connecticut, and western Ma. So it seemed like a huge concentration, but it's just that all these communities surround a gigantic city that's always been a musical hub. 

The actual metal-core scene happened in a strange way. It involved a lot of cross breeding between bands (Killswitch, Shadows Fall, Overcast, All That Remains, etc... all started with the same band/group of kids). There was also a huge crew of scenesters with nothing to do in Worcester at the time, where there just happen to be a whole lot of venues, including what is currently one of the largest remaining - The Palladium.

So when you combine a tight scene of bands that share members and styles, and a tight scene of kids that will go to any and every show just to have something to do together, and you get a big explosion in other bands that want to get involved. For every one big (and good) metal-core band you can list, us locals can tell you about a few dozen others that came and went overnight. A few were really good, like Calyx in Ruin. Some were awful, and came across as incredibly in-sincere. Which in turn drove away a lot of those Worcester "scenesters" who made the shows and scene a success in the first place.


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## Shaunheiser (Jul 10, 2012)

I'm not sure how the hell a thread about metalcore in Massachusetts can exist without a mention of Converge.


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## artmachine (Jul 10, 2012)

Shaunheiser said:


> I'm not sure how the hell a thread about metalcore in Massachusetts can exist without a mention of Converge.


Haha I wanted to sooo bad, but I couldn't find a way to tie them in to what I wanted to say. They're one of my favorite bands and they're so influential, but their spin on metallic hardcore is very unique and they were also a decade old as a band when they put out their(in most people's eyes) best/most important record. Also, massachusetts is known for early hardcore and the more modern "metalcore" stuff, as the OP was describing, but I feel like the really great 90's thrashy/metallic hardcore doesn't have very deep roots in massachusetts, aside from a handful of bands.


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## cichra (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for their replies... this is all really interesting. 

Would love to hear from more people if anyone else has more thoughts on this or stories.


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## RagtimeDandy (Jul 10, 2012)

It's cause we're a pissed off folk! And you forgot Converge, I'm proud to say I live in the same state as those legends.

In my personal experience EVERYONE. EVERYONE. listens and follows the popular music. There's very few people like myself that want something different and honest, and I feel like a lot of the hardcore/metal bands from MA feel the same way as me - fuck the popular stuff, lets be original and honest. And it really shows with guys like Converge or The Red Chord


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## ittoa666 (Jul 11, 2012)

Let's not forget the melodeath influenced bands like Aftershock. Bands like that totally set up the archetype of metalcore as we know it.


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## MFB (Jul 11, 2012)

ittoa666 said:


> Let's not forget the melodeath influenced bands like Aftershock. Bands like that totally set up the archetype of metalcore as we know it.



Just listened to these guys, at first listen they sounded like a more melodic version of Heaven Shall Burn with a slight KSE sound to the vocals

They have the BEST pic of Adam D on their MySpace page, fucking spiked, bleach blonde hair


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## sol niger 333 (Jul 11, 2012)

Killswitch....and gays


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## RevDrucifer (Jul 11, 2012)

By the time I got to Mass in '05 or 06', I didn't see ANY band that really got me going, aside from Train Of Thought and I think they might be from Rhode Island. 

I was living in Rockland, about 20 minutes south of Boston. The only music scene I knew about that was still going on was the punk/hardcore shows at VFW's. My girlfriend was big into that scene for years.

I really only stuck around Boston/South Shore, so I don't know anything about Western Mass, which seems to be where a lot of the metalcore bands came from. But I played a few shows at the Middle East, where I thought I'd see/hear some great bands, but that wasn't the case.

We rehearsed at the same place as Diecast, (Bandstand Live in Taunton) and I heard a few cool bands while I was walking to the bathroom. There was one KILLER Tool-like band that used to bust out Dream Theater songs occasionally....I used to sit by their door and just listen while the guys in my band argued with our drummer.


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## Shaunheiser (Jul 11, 2012)

I just think Massachusetts just has a big music scene. Period. I don't think metalcore is specifically their "thing". I also don't really care much for any of the bands originally mentioned, but when I think of music from the Boston area from the early-00s I think more of what Bridge 9 records was releasing than I do Killswitch Engage. I'll admit that metalcore has never really been my thing, though the first few Unearth albums were cool.


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## artmachine (Jul 11, 2012)

Shaunheiser said:


> I just think Massachusetts just has a big music scene. Period. I don't think metalcore is specifically their "thing". I also don't really care much for any of the bands originally mentioned, but when I think of music from the Boston area from the early-00s I think more of what Bridge 9 records was releasing than I do Killswitch Engage. I'll admit that metalcore has never really been my thing, though the first few Unearth albums were cool.


 Hell yeah. The other guitarist in my band works for bridge 9. I definitely think massachusetts and hardcore go hand in hand, but it's just something that stays pretty underground. Hardcore bands will never be as popular as "metalcore" bands like killswitch engage and stuff like that.


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## Pushingink (Jul 11, 2012)

I'll throw my 2 cents in here.
There is a concert promoter by the name of Scott ( I have always called him Ogre, a name which we gave him around 1987.) Yes I'm old. He used to own a alternative clothing and music store in Indian Orchard MA called Red Rocket Records.
I mention him because he was very instrumental in getting many of the hardcore bands from Western Mass out and about. 
He has worked with the Paladium in Worcester quite a bit.
If you get a chance check out Ligeia, there first cd, Your Ghost is a Gift.
Also try The Bloodening (one of my favorite heavier local bands).


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## artmachine (Jul 11, 2012)

Pushingink said:


> I'll throw my 2 cents in here.
> There is a concert promoter by the name of Scott ( I have always called him Ogre, a name which we gave him around 1987.) Yes I'm old. He used to own a alternative clothing and music store in Indian Orchard MA called Red Rocket Records.
> I mention him because he was very instrumental in getting many of the hardcore bands from Western Mass out and about.


Scott Lee? I've played a few of his shows at the waterfront in holyoke. He puts on some decent shows(most of them are just C grade tour packages with a bunch of local support), but I don't think he'd be doing it if the money wasn't there. That being said, he seems like an honest enough guy. I've never had a bad experience with him, but I don't think he really cares all that much about the bands and especially the ones that don't bring in some money. He's definitely 10x better than most "promoters", "booking agencies", etc. around here, though. My experiences with him are more recent though(like past 4-5 years), so maybe he did a lot more and cared more 10-20 years ago.


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## grunge782 (Jul 11, 2012)

Don't know, really don't want to know.


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## Jazzamatazz (Jul 11, 2012)

Shaunheiser said:


> I'm not sure how the hell a thread about metalcore in Massachusetts can exist without a mention of Converge.


 

I don't know how it exists without mentioning Bury Your Dead


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## The Reverend (Jul 11, 2012)

Some of y'all is some angry mofos.

In Houston, where I'm originally from, there is nothing even close to resembling a regional sound, hell, even a fucking city-wide identity. Don't get me wrong, there's been some bands I loved, was a part of, or had friends in that were great, but none of them was original in any special sense. It was all clones, albeit talented clones, of national bands. That's why I'm interested in this thread. The idea that a 'scene' could create new and interesting music is so foreign to me.


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## Quantumface (Jul 11, 2012)

Seriously check out the Killswitch Engage documentary on the Killswitch Engage Set this World Ablze dvd. It starts off with the pre-killswitch and pre-shadows fall bands of overcast and aftershock and has a great timeline.


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## Quantumface (Jul 11, 2012)

this guy


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## artmachine (Jul 12, 2012)

Jazzamatazz said:


> I don't know how it exists without mentioning Bury Your Dead


Well Converge started in 1990 and were pioneers of metallic hardcore and "metalcore". That band started 11 years later. I mean, if we're talking history of the "massachusetts" scene, I guess a band from the area who was instrumental in shaping the genre as a whole deserves more mention.


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## artmachine (Jul 12, 2012)

I also have to say that the more modern sounding stuff that the OP is asking about without a doubt takes influence from hatebreed. They're from CT, but new england is so condensed that it really doesn't make much of a difference.

But it honestly all goes back to hardcore. At least if we're talking about how a "scene" formed. And it had been going on long before bands like killswitch engage were forming. Hardcore was ultimately the first aggressive music ever and on top of that, they promoted a self-sustaining do it yourself underground community which is exactly what a scene is, or should be. Hardcore made it possible to start underground and indie record labels, zines and put on shows in spaces that weren't giant venues like vfw halls, art spaces, houses and even more guerilla style shows where people would just get a bunch of kids and bands together in the last minute when they heard that some space was available.

With the bands that the OP was mentioning, I think that just happened like every other wave of bands happens. One or two started playing a certain sound and it got popular, so 20 other bands decided to play that style. I think the fact that massachusetts has such a strong history in aggressive music just made it that much easier for these bands to sustain themselves. They already had 20 years of kids forming bands and putting on shows, and ultimately, forming scenes.


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## Necky379 (Jul 12, 2012)

I always gave credit to bands like At the Gates & In Flames. Am I wrong for this? I mean that's where I hear the biggest influence coming from. To me it seems like they borrowed the riffing style from the Euro bands, mixed it with the local hardcore song structure and in some cases (donais, susi, mcgrath, etc.)added what they picked up from the 80's shredders


Even the tones sound similar imo.


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## artmachine (Jul 12, 2012)

Necky379 said:


> I always gave credit to bands like At the Gates & In Flames. Am I wrong for this? I mean that's where I hear the biggest influence coming from. To me it seems like they borrowed the riffing style from the Euro bands, mixed it with the local hardcore song structure and in some cases (donais, susi, mcgrath, etc.)added what they picked up from the 80's shredders.


Musically, I'd say without a doubt yes. That's definitely the biggest influence on that sound. But as far as the idea of a scene goes, I still think that all the credit goes to the foundation that hardcore layed.


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## Necky379 (Jul 12, 2012)

Gotcha, I was thinking about the question as more musically related.


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## kevdes93 (Jul 12, 2012)

Western Masshole reporting. i pondered that same question... some of my most cherished memories are of seeing KSE, the acacia strain and within the ruins kick everyones ass in little basement/club shows over the years and seeing them grow along with me basically


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## codync (Jul 12, 2012)

Quantumface said:


> this guy



Dude books NEMHF every year.


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## Dsalvetti7 (Aug 3, 2012)

The documentary on killswitch's set the world ablaze covers most of it i'm from western massachusetts and live within 20 miles of where killswitch,all that remains, etc. started out i see the members every once and awhile just hanging around to me the first killswitch album is what started to metalcore genre as a whole i give alot of credit to jesse leach as it was his voice and lyrics that set them apart either way it's awesome to be from the area where one of my favorite genres originated


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## jguitarist45 (Aug 4, 2012)

cichra said:


> Does anyone know the story, or any stories, about how it is that so many American metal/metalcore bands that thrived in the mid-2000's were from Massachusetts? Killswitch Engage, All that Remains, The Red Chord, Unearth, Acacia Strain, Shadows Fall... all from MA.
> 
> Was there a person/promoter/club/magazine/label around which this scene developed?
> 
> ...




Metalcore was around long before KSE. In my own opinion, it started from a band called "Overcast". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Fair

I could go into more detail but its hard to remember everything that happened back then. Simply put, just a bunch of kids, who loved metal, constantly stonned and drunk wanting to play metal.


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## Calyxrai (Sep 17, 2013)

Wow, crazy to stumble across this thread. I was looking for the bandcamp site I built for Calyx In Ruin, one of my former bands. I basically grew up in what I fondly refer to as the 413 scene, but includes The Unearth dudes (came up w/ Slo bitd) amongst a gazillion other friends/bands. I know Phil was huge into Carcass (as we're most of the dudes I respected) Heartwork. Matt from Shad was always about songwriting and had many voices from death type stuff, to acoustic stuff he did w/ Hospital. Paul, Zeuss had an apartment in Northampton that they used to do home recordings on for Doom Nation and later this would become the basis for Planet Z / Zeuss the producer who I had the privellege of learning from and recording w. Other big guys...Adam D, Blood Has Been Shed (Corey ....ing slays) and then everyone else that came after us older dudes. Chris Bartlett is a huge guitar player around here that taught 3 Grammy winning gtr players from here, Jon's now playing in Anthrax...Every single dude, I'm so proud of. Chris was the other original guitarist for ATR besides Ollie and Phil.

Me personally, I rejected a lot of the metal stuff around here. I tried to listen to what wasn't popular and had more obscure stuff from Will Haven, Neurosis, Suicidal Tendencies, Helmet, Quicksand, Blood Has Been Shed, PTW, VOD, Botch,Snapcase etc But I also incorporated 70s songwriting w that - a lot different than the normal metal head into Carcass, The Haunted, In Flames etc bitd. 

We all kinda branched out and had our own successes and would meet back up later and be like kick ass, party and just catch up. I learned so much from a lot of the bands you've listed. I'm way grateful. 

I'm still playing and writing, basically mixing my model for Calyx, Farewell Radiance and my current style ranging from noise to ambiance and chaos hardcore grind punk raw etc while sounding musical. So many great bands that make me proud to be from here

r. //


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## ArrowHead (Sep 17, 2013)

Rai, welcome! Haven't heard from you in a long time, since the first Farewell Radiance you did with Adam.

I still want a copy of that old Calyx recording. Loved that stuff.


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## JayfromSomerville (Sep 23, 2014)

I grew up in Boston back in the hay day,we had our own scene for punk and Hardcore centering around Kenmore Square,we had our own CBGB it was called The Rat ( the rathskeller) gentrification took over Kenmore and the scene moved into Alston and Brighton,numerous Boston Bands moved out west and inspired scenes throughout the commonweath...I lived downstairs for years from Brian Fair,it was definately an organic music scene fertalized by The Legendary Boston hardcore and punk scenes from back in the day Gentrification just spread out the seeds....Look up Bridge Nine Records they still represent a lot of those locals bands who got their start in Boston Back in the Day.......Blood for Blood rules...


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## Wings of Obsidian (Sep 23, 2014)

Two things for you guys to consider since wee are talking about scenes that rapidly developed and spit out amazing bands:

1.) Tampa death metal scene (yes, the 90s)

2.) Gothenburg melodic death metal scene (again, yes, the 90s)


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## Dana (Sep 23, 2014)

JayfromSomerville said:


> I grew up in Boston back in the hay day,we had our own scene for punk and Hardcore centering around Kenmore Square,we had our own CBGB it was called The Rat ( the rathskeller) gentrification took over Kenmore and the scene moved into Alston and Brighton,numerous Boston Bands moved out west and inspired scenes throughout the commonweath...I lived downstairs for years from Brian Fair,it was definately an organic music scene fertalized by The Legendary Boston hardcore and punk scenes from back in the day Gentrification just spread out the seeds....Look up Bridge Nine Records they still represent a lot of those locals bands who got their start in Boston Back in the Day.......Blood for Blood rules...



the rat.... man i miss that dump. so many good bands i saw in that hole.....


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## beerandbeards (Sep 24, 2014)

Masshole music scenes....

Just kidding. Well I would assume that new england hardcore musicians wanted to play metal and the two just melded. Sounds like the easiest answer.

BTW massholes cant drive, am I right?!


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## Richie666 (Sep 24, 2014)

Being from Mass, this thread is pretty fascinating. I've always wondered about this scene myself. Though I've never been into the hardcore/metalcore scene, I played in a thrash band a few years back with a dude who was in a band called Random Acts of Violence if anyone knows of them. He showed me some of their recordings and they're pretty sweet.


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## yingmin (Sep 25, 2014)

NovaReaper said:


> i wont even get into death and black metal because those genres created an enormous diaspora of diverse sounds throughout the world that can't be as easily expressed as some of the other genres listed.



Of all the genres of music that exist, you're suggesting that BLACK METAL can't be geographically isolated?


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## wakjob (Sep 25, 2014)

Hate to partake in a necro, but the original question seems easy.

Group of kids grew up listening to good ol' bay area 80's thrash & metal in general, and were enamored with heavy music from all eras from that point on. Mix it all up, and that's what you got.

Still dig a lot of the 'core' bands from the last decade. They refocused metal music on good playing & song writing skills after the low point in the genera starting in the mid 90's.


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