# 313313 lines



## distressed_romeo (Feb 7, 2006)

Has anyone else taken the trouble to really develop this approach? Here's an example of one of my own licks...


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## Chris D (Feb 7, 2006)

The lack of replies would suggest a "no"...

I'm gonna have a go at some.


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## God Hand Apostle (Feb 8, 2006)

I want to try to make one of these!!!

I am much more familiar with the fingering that Marshall Harrison does often which is (131313), or the Gambale way (313132).

If anyone doesnt know whats going on here, this is how Derryl Gabel explains his 313313 concept on the Frank Gambale forum.
"3 notes on the low E, 1 on the A, 3 on the D, 3 on the G, 1 on the B, and 3 on the high E. If you want to play this straight up and down the scale keeping the economy picking going all you have to do is shift to the following inversion(or skip that one and shift to the following one if your really adventurous) on the way back down. That would be 313313 then shift to the next inversion and descend 313313 then shift back to the original starting point."

I will make one and post it tomorrow hopefully. We will see how quickly I can get everything else in life done before guitar. Like right now I am procrastinating on the internet...  and this is my fiance looking at me right now...


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## Drew (Feb 8, 2006)

Ok, I screwed with that for a full 30 seconds before I realized it was a 6 string staff. 

That's 30 seconds of my life I'll never get back.


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 9, 2006)

Sorry 'bout that!

Santiago Dobles has a really neat way of pulling this stuff off as well...I think both he and Derryl Gabel got it from Derek Taylor originally.


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## 7stringninja (Feb 9, 2006)

It might not be 100% relevant to the topic, but I do the picking differently than what is noted in these tabs.

I do upstrokes on the first and third 3-note legato, and downstrokes on all the single note strings. Downstroke also on the 2nd 3-note legato. I think it helps my timing or something.

I'm really weird about picking.


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 9, 2006)

7stringninja said:


> It might not be 100% relevant to the topic, but I do the picking differently than what is noted in these tabs.
> 
> I do upstrokes on the first and third 3-note legato, and downstrokes on all the single note strings. Downstroke also on the 2nd 3-note legato. I think it helps my timing or something.
> 
> I'm really weird about picking.



Yeah, those were just my prefered picking directions...provided you can execute everything cleanly, I don't think there's any such thing as the 'right' way of picking.


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## 7stringninja (Feb 9, 2006)

distressed_romeo said:


> Yeah, those were just my prefered picking directions...provided you can execute everything cleanly, I don't think there's any such thing as the 'right' way of picking.



But of course. There is never a right way for anything in the creative world.

There is technique, but you are never limited by that technique.

I was just putting my 2-cents in. Sometimes hearing other people's suggestions will make the lighbulb in your head light up.


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 9, 2006)

Very true...that's the whole point of threads like this!


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## strychnine (Feb 12, 2006)

this is where santiago derives alot of lines.


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 13, 2006)

Yeah, I know...he's one of the guys I appropriated the approach from.


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## strychnine (Feb 13, 2006)

I used to do them but eh...I dont want to sound like an immitation.


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 16, 2006)

I don't know...the approach seems pretty flexible. There's no reason why you'd have to sound exactly like him with a bit of imagination.


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## strychnine (Feb 18, 2006)

true the formula is versatile but I dunno...
im trying to find my own muse for what I do you know?


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## Aghorasilat (Dec 6, 2006)

strychnine said:


> true the formula is versatile but I dunno...
> im trying to find my own muse for what I do you know?




Lester....You lazy ass!

DO THEM!

You can Apply then to any scale and note grouping. If you analyze Holdsworth and Gambale you realize this is a big "Secret" on how to expand your vocabulary on the neck and fluidity.

I use them with harmonic minor, pentatonic, all major modes, Melodic minor, altered scale. 


Peace

Santiago

Derryl took the concept from Frank Gambale and applied it to Pentatonic. I applied it to everything and then when i told him what I did he began to also expand and apply them to other scales.

Derryl and I both got major help from Derek Taylor in the Legato department.


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 6, 2006)

Aghorasilat said:


> Lester....You lazy ass!
> 
> DO THEM!
> 
> ...



I got some instructional material from Derryl where he uses it for seventh arpeggios, which is a great sound.

It's become a pretty major part of my style since I started this thread, although nowadays I don't really think of it as a technique unto itself...these sort of fingerings just naturally appear in my lines. I love to use them with economy picking as well as legato technique.


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## God Hand Apostle (Dec 6, 2006)

Its a total economy picking thing by design I think. D,U,D,D,D,U,D...
The thing I like about these are the fuid sound/range they cover...very dramatic.

Especially usefull for playing piano music. Some 3131314 Chopin lines stretch your hands like a bitch, and on a 7 string too...I couldnt imagine on a 6 the position shifts would be out of control on the low notes.


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 6, 2006)

Totally. That's one of the things I love about the seven; it's not just extra low notes, it's a wealth of new fingering possibilities...


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## Roundhouse_Kick (Dec 7, 2006)

Cool thread.... I recently started experimenting with the pentatonic approach to this after reading derryls article on CFH, its great fun! Although I'm still pretty stuck just going up and down the penta..scale at the moment, I'm just trying to get them nice and clean before really starting to expand it!

Although I had thought in passing about applying it to the other scales/modes I haven't tried it yet, but I definately will now (when I'm more used to the technique!)

Anyone else found it a bit taxing on the old left hand/wrist (especially on the pentatonic ones)?? I don't think mine is used to such vigorous stretching!!


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 7, 2006)

Roundhouse_Kick said:


> Cool thread.... I recently started experimenting with the pentatonic approach to this after reading derryls article on CFH, its great fun! Although I'm still pretty stuck just going up and down the penta..scale at the moment, I'm just trying to get them nice and clean before really starting to expand it!
> 
> Although I had thought in passing about applying it to the other scales/modes I haven't tried it yet, but I definately will now (when I'm more used to the technique!)
> 
> Anyone else found it a bit taxing on the old left hand/wrist (especially on the pentatonic ones)?? I don't think mine is used to such vigorous stretching!!



That comes with practice. Try just playing the stretchy 3NPS patterns on their own and then integrating them into the full pentatonic shapes.


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## Roundhouse_Kick (Dec 7, 2006)

To be honest I think I'm ok with the single strings, its the pivoting of the wrist whilst being at a stretch that does for me. After a while my wrist just starts killing! Which is incredibly annoying because I like absolutely nailing new techniques for hours on end! 

Hopefully the pain will go away when I get used to them a bit more.


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## Aghorasilat (Dec 8, 2006)

Roundhouse_Kick said:


> Cool thread.... I recently started experimenting with the pentatonic approach to this after reading derryls article on CFH, its great fun! Although I'm still pretty stuck just going up and down the penta..scale at the moment, I'm just trying to get them nice and clean before really starting to expand it!
> 
> Although I had thought in passing about applying it to the other scales/modes I haven't tried it yet, but I definately will now (when I'm more used to the technique!)
> 
> Anyone else found it a bit taxing on the old left hand/wrist (especially on the pentatonic ones)?? I don't think mine is used to such vigorous stretching!!



GO SLOW work your way up tp the speed but work very slow.


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## Aghorasilat (Dec 25, 2006)

mixo b9b13 
in 313313 format

Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERHxyF2k6Lc


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## Durero (Dec 26, 2006)

Cool post Santiago


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 8, 2007)

Durero said:


> Cool post Santiago




what is that bridge on that axe? looks crazy


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 8, 2007)

Hey, whilst this thread's at the top of the list, has anyone else tried playing similar legato lines using a 3131313 or 1313133 fingering? Sooooo much fun!


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## Durero (Jan 8, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> what is that bridge on that axe? looks crazy


That's one of my attempts to create a 7-string multi-scale version of a Steinberger Trans-Trem. There's a pic in the gallery:
http://www.sevenstring.org/photoplog/index.php?n=354
So far none of my three bridge prototypes have worked properly, but I've learned a lot from each attempt and I've found a proper CAD/CNC equipped place for the next attempt. I'm working towards a modular transposing trem that could be used for any number of strings. Should have the next prototype sometime this year.


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 11, 2007)

Durero said:


> That's one of my attempts to create a 7-string multi-scale version of a Steinberger Trans-Trem. There's a pic in the gallery:
> http://www.sevenstring.org/photoplog/index.php?n=354
> So far none of my three bridge prototypes have worked properly, but I've learned a lot from each attempt and I've found a proper CAD/CNC equipped place for the next attempt. I'm working towards a modular transposing trem that could be used for any number of strings. Should have the next prototype sometime this year.




that would be amazing if you get it. Count me in...

JUST add Mahogany body, Ebony Fretboard, Jerichs pick ups, and scalloped fret board...


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## God Hand Apostle (Jan 12, 2007)

"Jerichs pick ups"

?????

What's Jerich running? Does he wind his own pickups then? 

I heard recently that these were very good in an EMG, but passive kind of way. http://www.adderpluspickups.com/index.cfm?id=1140&fuseaction=browse&pageid=1

There's another section for the pickups...I'm just curious.


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 12, 2007)

God Hand Apostle said:


> "Jerichs pick ups"
> 
> ?????
> 
> ...



ask Jerich about that He has come up with some PU's for 7 string

I almost forgot about this Video clip . This is 313313 in action (Mixb9b13)

http://www.aghora.org/uploads/formles4.wmv

enjoy!

Santiago


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 12, 2007)

Durero said:


> That's one of my attempts to create a 7-string multi-scale version of a Steinberger Trans-Trem. There's a pic in the gallery:
> http://www.sevenstring.org/photoplog/index.php?n=354
> So far none of my three bridge prototypes have worked properly, but I've learned a lot from each attempt and I've found a proper CAD/CNC equipped place for the next attempt. I'm working towards a modular transposing trem that could be used for any number of strings. Should have the next prototype sometime this year.



Another potential customer right here!


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## Durero (Jan 12, 2007)

Thanks for the encouragement Santiago & Shemyaza - I'm working on it!


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 12, 2007)

Durero said:


> Thanks for the encouragement Santiago & Shemyaza - I'm working on it!



Awesome.

Oh, just to clarify, Shemyaza isn't my real name...


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## Durero (Jan 12, 2007)

Haha - I thought not, judging by your 'location', but I thought I'd call you that anyway 'cause it's a cool sounding word - where does it come from?


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 12, 2007)

Durero said:


> Haha - I thought not, judging by your 'location', but I thought I'd call you that anyway 'cause it's a cool sounding word - where does it come from?



He was the leader of the Nephilim in Christian apocrypha.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samyaza

If you're interested, check out a book called 'From the Ashes of Angels' by Andrew Collins, or for a fictional interpretation, check out 'Stalking Tender Prey', 'Scenting Hallowed Blood' and 'Stealing Sacred Fire' by Storm Constantine.

Kind of a pet subject of mine...


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## Durero (Jan 12, 2007)

^ very interesting.
Reminds me of how much I used to enjoy reading Joseph Campbell mythology books.


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 13, 2007)

Durero said:


> ^ very interesting.
> Reminds me of how much I used to enjoy reading Joseph Campbell mythology books.



Joseph Cambell rules!


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## Durero (Jan 14, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> Joseph Cambell rules!


 
When I was about 19 I watched the entire PBS tv series Power of Myth where he's being interviewed by Bill Moyers at George Lucas's ranch. It totally changed my world-view and gave me an avenue into learning about the rich and highly developed spiritual cultures found all over the world.

The few experiences I'd had sitting in a church & listening to men speak and having to work so hard to translate out the misogyny and politics and metaphors which were mistaken for literal facts, just wasn't working for me.

The Joseph Campbell stuff was exactly what I needed and got me reading about much more nourishing (at least to me) stuff like buddhism, sufism, and first-nations spirituality.

These days I don't consider myself religious but I try to practice buddhist meditation technique (www.dhamma.org) regularly which has been the best mental-health exercise I've experienced.


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 14, 2007)

Durero said:


> When I was about 19 I watched the entire PBS tv series Power of Myth where he's being interviewed by Bill Moyers at George Lucas's ranch. It totally changed my world-view and gave me an avenue into learning about the rich and highly developed spiritual cultures found all over the world.
> 
> The few experiences I'd had sitting in a church & listening to men speak and having to work so hard to translate out the misogyny and politics and metaphors which were mistaken for literal facts, just wasn't working for me.
> 
> ...



i do a lot of chi kung and buddhist meditation & tibetan shamanism every day. 


Joseph Campbell is way too cool!


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## Marko (Jan 28, 2007)

I remember checking Derek Taylor's Advanced Legato Lines (or something) a while back and he mentioned that 313313 stuff. Though I don't remember he skiped any notes there - I think he just showed it as a cool new way to play pentatonics. I totaly missed the point there...

I read about these again on the old Aghora forum where Santiago shared some guitar wisdom  

3133133(in one position, 3nps pattern, ascending) is the one use mostly.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 28, 2007)

It can be used either way...you could use it as a way of refingering existing patterns to facilitate a more legato tone, or you could use it as a formula of skipping notes withing scales to create more interesting intervallic patterns.

Is that Derek Taylor instructional any good, as I've been tempted by it before?


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 28, 2007)

on the new aghora song "Dime" there is a 3 cool 313313 melodic lines.

jerich can tell you all about it!

Peace

Santi

Also look for Paul Aldanee he taught me 313313's first he was friends with Derryl Gabel
He is killer player!

All those dudes where doing them with pentatonics at first cause they just fit nicely, then I basically started to dig them into my fretboard and came up with the ones for all the modes, harmionic minor , melodic minor, then derryl started to do the same. 

Its the best way top free up your playing.


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 28, 2007)

I did a websearch on Paul Aldanee's name last time you mentioned him...no info available on him .


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## Aghorasilat (Jan 28, 2007)

(Paul Aldanee)he is soooo LOW key BUT GOD HE IS GOOD!I wish he would do more with his playing he meant a lot to me when I was 16


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## distressed_romeo (Jan 29, 2007)

Pity. Does he have any recorded work floating around, as I'm intrigued now?


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## Aghorasilat (Feb 5, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Pity. Does he have any recorded work floating around, as I'm intrigued now?




I found him!

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=64156510

send him a message tell him Santiago sent you.

HE WAS THE MAN AT ONE POINT with 313313's


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 6, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> I found him!
> 
> http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=64156510
> 
> ...



Wow, go you! No music there unfortunately, and I don't use Myspace (matter of principle y'see!).

Someone who does have a Myspace page, give him a prod and tell him to come over here!


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