# Custom shop dissapointment



## hikizume976 (Oct 21, 2014)

I know a lot of people here have had many experiences with custom guitar shops, and I'm sure everyone has been a customer at some point, which is why I would like some input from different persectives.

So, I got my first custom shop guitar in July. Awesome, right? 

Something curious happened, though.

I open up the box to a massive crack in the guitar case.

"I don't remember buying a broken case" I thought.

I don't want to get into the details like the fact that neither the plastic that the case came wrapped in or the box the case came in didn't show any signs of foul play, or how the crack seems to be going outwards instead of inwards, the guitar got home safe, that's what really matters.

Anyway, I get in touch with the shop and they come back with "we have to wait a month for the shipping company to respond to the damage claim..." As if this has anything to do with me. :s

The way I see it, this is between the shop and the shipping company. I'm the customer here, and also the victim. I think the shop should have taken care of me first, the paying customer, the reason why they're in business in the first place, and then deal with the shipping company themselves.

Despite this, I didn't want to be that guy. "Nevermind" I said. "I'll wait."

Three months pass by. A lot of back and forth, but no results. Then one day the shop comes back with "the shipping company won't do anything, we'll send you a new case next week."

Another month gets by, I write to the shop again. Still no case, not even an ETA, either. Nothing.

I would still like to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm not especulating about whether I'm being played or not, but after four months of talk and no definite actions, it definitely feels like it!

Don't wanna name names but for the sake of giving a persective to fellow guitarrists, I will share all the details if this doesn't get solved.

Not looking to discredit anyone, either. I know this is just one side of the story but I have no reason to lie about any of this. I have better things to do than being bitter about chasing people for months for a lousy guitar case.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 21, 2014)

No email screen shots, no shop or shipper names, and no pics? No. Care. Ever. 

Post it all, or don't post.


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## hikizume976 (Oct 21, 2014)

MaxOfMetal said:


> No email screen shots, no shop or shipper names, and no pics? No. Care. Ever.
> 
> Post it all, or don't post.




I could do without the attitude. I'm not your kid

Also, I fail to see the connection between an image and being able to provide a constructive opinion. I'm not looking to prove anything, nor to provide juicy gossip, I just want to hear from other people who might have gone through similar experiences.


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## Tyler (Oct 21, 2014)




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## MoshJosh (Oct 21, 2014)

^^^ beat me to it


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## Chokey Chicken (Oct 21, 2014)

hikizume976 said:


> I could do without the attitude. I'm not your kid
> 
> Also, I fail to see the connection between an image and being able to provide a constructive opinion. I'm not looking to prove anything, nor to provide juicy gossip, I just want to hear from other people who might have gone through similar experiences.



Perhaps one should not question the Super Moderator. The point of a thread like this is to lay it all out. Either you've waited long enough to pass judgement or you haven't. If you feel you've been wronged, you create a post that shows the damage and names names so that people don't follow suit. If you don't feel you've been wronged just yet, then you don't post a thread.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 21, 2014)

Or don't post all relevant info and get ill-informed opinions.


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## Electric Wizard (Oct 21, 2014)

hikizume976 said:


> provide a constructive opinion


"Guys, somebody somewhere may have ripped me off. I'm only posting about it to help the community, but you have to guess who it was and whether they actually did something wrong."


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## tedtan (Oct 21, 2014)

^


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## technomancer (Oct 21, 2014)

So basically you got a custom guitar that arrived fine but the case is cracked. Since we have no idea if it is a store acting as a dealer or a custom shop jerking you around, exactly what kind of feedback would you like beyond, "Yep that sucks they should have given you a new case."

Also no idea what it being a custom vs a production guitar has to do with anything since it's a damaged case.

So basically, yep sucks they should have given you a new case


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## Randy (Oct 21, 2014)

hikizume976 said:


> I just want to hear from other people who might have gone through similar experiences.



Nope, nobody on here has ever been scammed or mistreated by a custom shop.

Hint: UTSF


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## feraledge (Oct 21, 2014)

I ordered from a custom shop once. I don't want to name names. I was very clear and like:
"I want half pepperoni, half pineapple."
"We'll get that to you soon, sir."
No ETA, but I'm like "whatever".
So, okay, like 30 minutes go by, I guess it finally shows up. But then it's like, 
"This is half pineapple, half pepperoni." 
And dude is like,
Blank stare. 
So I'm like, I don't want to be that guy, but yeah, called his manager and it went to voice mail. Two weeks later and no call back. 
I don't want to throw anyone under the bus or be "that dude", but I said in the voice mail that
"the garlic dipping sauce container was dented". 
I don't want to spend eternity getting that right. 
People are such idiots. 

TL;DR: Pointless complaint post is pointless. And I'm always disappointed when a thread has no pics.


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## Cloudy (Oct 21, 2014)

They should have replaced the case sooner with no hassle.

Now tell us who it is


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## max3000 (Oct 21, 2014)

This is a fantastic thread.


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## Knyas (Oct 21, 2014)

That attitude...


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## 77zark77 (Oct 21, 2014)

I hate custom cases, it this can help


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## protest (Oct 21, 2014)

I get what where you're coming from. You feel like you got ripped off, but it's just a stupid case. You like your guitar, so you don't want name drop because the dealer/builder knows who you are and will know that you threw this out there all over a stupid guitar case. That said everyone else has a very valid point. You've waited like 6 months for a guitar case. You've hounded them about a guitar case. It's stupid, it's just a guitar case.

Which is *exactly why* they should have just shipped you a new one once you showed them it was busted. 

Considering you likely just dropped several thousand pounds on one of their guitars, and have now waited 6 months for something as simple as a case, you should just post everything so people can see: what happened, who it was, and what exactly has been communicated. Otherwise there really isn't much to talk about other than to say "that sucks dude, I hope it gets taken care of."


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## Discoqueen (Oct 21, 2014)

For them to make such a big deal about replacing the case, despite you having strong suspicion that the case wasn't damaged during transit, reflects really bad on the company. I think since it's not been resolved, and they are dragging their feet, you might want to exercise a little bit of "just fury," and lay it all out there! I think any custom shop should understand they are in competition with quite a few capable luthiers who are willing to go the extra mile. The monetary cost of shipping a new case can't be too substantial anyways, so they really should step up and take care of you. Raise a stink about it. Start with naming names and providing documents.


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## TheStig1214 (Oct 21, 2014)

You're allowed to name names, bad rep is going to get shit done faster than being all ho-hum and vague. 

In a lot of cases (pardon the pun) custom shops are active on forums like this, and if they are called out they will respond. Even if they aren't, having that sort bad word out there come around to them one way or another.


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## hikizume976 (Oct 21, 2014)

I really wish I was spending my time doing something else, but the reality is that I've keep this quiet for a while now and it has gotten me nowhere.

This is the gist of it:





















































Also, not digging these hiscox cases, sure they're light but do not seem durable at all. Won't even fit my guitar strap in it either.


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## ferret (Oct 21, 2014)

Your first post neglected to mention that you got a reply just yesterday, with full admittance that it was their fault they hadn't sent it.

Still, sucks you've had to wait.


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## lemeker (Oct 21, 2014)

That's the crack? That's nothing.  

If your guitar is/was fine, then yes maybe they should have sent a case sooner, but dude, your overreacting.


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## Polythoral (Oct 21, 2014)

Every guitar I've received in the mail has had cracks/dents in the case when I received it. At this point I blame the shipping companies 100%.

Never really complained about it to the luthier/dealer. The cases job is to protect the guitar in transport, which they always have. They're pretty bound to get beaten up. I always feel like I'd be being a jackass if I told the person 'hey, the case arrived damaged (most likely in transport) but the guitar is 100% fine, can you spend 50+ dollars on a new case and then another 50 bucks to ship it to me, thanks.'


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## JP Universe (Oct 21, 2014)

I really didn't expect this thread to be GOLD....


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## wiretap (Oct 21, 2014)

Guitar cases are supposed to look like shit and take a beating. It is their purpose. That said, that case is some cheap ass shit for a custom shop..


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## thatguyupthere (Oct 21, 2014)

Sooooo......let's see that guitar, shall we?


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## thrsher (Oct 21, 2014)

The case did its job, it protected your guitar, I'm suprised you put so much stock in this situation to go as far as making this thread. Please explain the difference from you cracking the case in transport vs the guitar being transport to you. What's the point/purpose of the guitar case?


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## Alex Kenivel (Oct 21, 2014)

black out your email address in those pics...


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## XxJoshxX (Oct 21, 2014)

^^yes i would advise the same
But I kind of feel bad that i keep coming back to this thread for the sole purpose of seeing peoples witty comments against the OP


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## Wildebeest (Oct 21, 2014)

Alex Kenivel said:


> black out your email address in those pics...


Too late I already downloaded 10 cars to his IP


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## Helstormau (Oct 21, 2014)

Meh, its only a case man. At least the guitar isnt cracked


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## Le Jeff (Oct 21, 2014)

I'm going to chime in as a former UPS delivery guy. If that's the worst your guitar case got, you got a good case.


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## UltraParanoia (Oct 21, 2014)

...Guitar pics.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2014)

Um......

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread. Your all being assholes to this dude. There is not a damn thing wrong with wanting to get what you paid for. If the guy ordered a guitar and a case, he should get them without damage. I dont see why everyone has to be a dick about it???

Its baffeling how you guys act like hes wrong. I know 4 months isnt a long time, but the fact that he was told one thing, and then treated to another makes it an issue of principal.

Also, someone mentioned what does it matter that its a custom shop or a production shop? Well, a custom shop should have a higher attention to detail and superb customer service to be a great custom shop. If they kinda yank the customers chain, and dont deliver the item as ordered, then why shouldnt he be able to make a thread.

And I dont get this "post everything or nothing" junk. It makes no sense. That just hunts for drama. I think the guy was trying to feel out the situation. Probably didnt know if what he delt with warrented mentioning the company. Its a borderline situation IMO. So the guy was feeling it out, and everyone started being dickheads to him. I dont get it


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## Noxon (Oct 22, 2014)

I once bought a Strat that had shipping damage to the case. You know what I did? I was thankful the case did its job, and just ordered a new one. Granted my Strat is not a custom Skervy, but still, man, the crack in the case isn't nearly as bad as I expected. The maker replied quickly, admitted fault, and are going to send you a new one... It is a bummer about the case, but I think you are looking for something to be mad about.


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## Alex Kenivel (Oct 22, 2014)

But yeah, let's see that Skervy...


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## jrstinkfish (Oct 22, 2014)

Noxon said:


> The maker replied quickly, admitted fault, and are going to send you a new one...


In the OP's defense, he wrote about the case back in July. In September, the shop said they were going to send him a new one from their next delivery of cases. Yesterday the shop admitted they forgot to send him a new one from that last delivery, and would send him one when they got another delivery. Sounds like he's being yanked around to me.

If it were me, I'd just have them refund me the cost of the case and go buy one locally.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2014)

jrstinkfish said:


> If it were me, I'd just have them refund me the cost of the case and go buy one locally.



This is probably the best solution. Unless you have a molded case or something(i dont think skeveys do).


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## Hollowway (Oct 22, 2014)

Yeah, I don't think it's right to pile on this guy, but at the same time there are a lot of us (ahem, BRJ) custom shop customers who would just be stoked to RECEIVE a guitar, much less a case, and anything in the working order. The sad thing is that most luthiers are either bad businessmen or flat out shysters.


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## Vrollin (Oct 22, 2014)

The bloke paid money for a new product, it doesn't matter what it is or how much anyone thinks the item is "worth," he paid real world dollars for something new he should get what he paid for, a brand new undamaged case....


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## poopyalligator (Oct 22, 2014)

Dude that sucks about the case. I think it is a bit miniscule on the grand scheme of things (I still think it sucks and i would be mildly angry about it as well), but as long as the guitar got there in good condition and is of good quality that is all that really matters. Lets see pics of that guitar now!


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## hikizume976 (Oct 22, 2014)

I've had a few cases for at least 7 years (one is 18 years old). Have seen many gigs and have travelled thousands of miles by air, sea and land as I've lived in four different countries. Not one case is in this condition, and this one is supposed to be brand new! IF cases are going to get trashed, I expect them to be in time, because of wear, by me. Not right out of the gate, before I've had the chance to use it for the first time.

Which is why I'm not going to buy something, have it arrive in this shape, and be cool with it, either. Never have in the past while buying not only guitars and basses, but also cabs, heads and rack gear, as well as TVs, computers, sound systems, etc. So why start now?

However, not getting what I payed for, whatever the reason, is one thing, but not one that bothers me. Seeing this issue being unresolved for almost four months and counting and feeling like it hasn't been addressed properly is a different thing. That's what bothers me. Just got to a point where I felt like this was worth sharing.


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## Neilzord (Oct 22, 2014)

Sweet, You're going to get a new case. it may have taken the piss to get, but at least its sorted aye.




But more importantly........Why isn't this an NGD yet!! 


Show us the Skervy!


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## Sepultorture (Oct 22, 2014)

if the guitars fine, and plays the way you like it, then stop with the belly aching over the case.

you'll get a new one eventually, if the case isn't seriously ....ed and the guitar is good and you love playing with it, then stop obsessing over the case and chill till you get a new one


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## AboutBlank (Oct 22, 2014)

I've spotted reactions like that a few times on here and I have some difficulties to comprehend these. Maybe it's really a cultural thing...

I can completely understand the kind of "feeler" post about similar situations from other users. This can open the possibility of a mutual agreement without a damage of the reputation for the company.
Which seems like the intention of the OP...

I(!) totally get the frustration, if it was intended(and I don't think so) or not, you constantly have the feeling to get fiddled with every new mail or whose absence.
Not a good feeling at all, and I think many people who have ordered a custom can comprehend, atleast at some point of the order process.

I think it's a debate on basic principles.

And I, personally, see it with a lot of scepticism, if the lack of communication and sometimes rude behaviour towards the customer, get excused and/or accepted with a distressing normality.
http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.h...oc=0&resultOrder=basic&multiwordShowSingle=on


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## Yianni54 (Oct 22, 2014)

Gonna have to agree with OP here. He payed quite a few bucks to get a guitar and $130 euro for a case. I know I have a skervy on order. So from a business perspective he is in the right. Remove the fact that it's a guitar. What if you bought a new coffe maker and it was dented or a new piece of furniture and it had marks on it. He should get a new case no questions asked. 

Now this is kinda what you get when A your dealing with a small time luthier and B your dealing with a foreign country.


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## Edika (Oct 22, 2014)

I also too am puzzled about why every one seems dismissive of the OP's frustration. Sure it's not like the guitar is flawed or damaged, as some of the customs have been from other companies. One also might argue that the case did it's job and that the company will eventually make it right. The OP didn't say they were out to con him just that he was dissatisfied that something like this has been delayed to this extend. The guitar might be quite expensive in comparison to the cost, but it's not a free case they are sending but one he paid for.
Imagine buying a new case for your guitar and it arriving in that state. Would you say 'oh that's fine, cases are meant to protect guitars so it doesn't matter if they arrive broken. Especially since I have seen people here complain and return guitars for more trivial matters...


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## Churchie777 (Oct 22, 2014)

Had the same sort of thing with my RAN case had a crack guitar was fine thought the case was kinda shitty but didnt really bother didnt want to replace a shit case with another one and plus i didnt see it as a big deal


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## HighGain510 (Oct 22, 2014)

jrstinkfish said:


> If it were me, I'd just have them refund me the cost of the case and go buy one locally.



This is really the only thing the OP should be exploring at this point. It's been months since you originally called them out on the case issue, I wouldn't wait any longer for them to drag their feet on giving you a replacement case. Call them out (you've already done so publicly, so feel free to let them know the forum is waiting to see how they handle fixing things since they've clearly dropped the ball in the customer service department ) on taking too long to get you a replacement case and request that they refund you for the case, or if you're willing to keep the cracked one ask for a partial refund and then you can either scrap the case or use the funds towards buying another one yourself. The fact that they wouldn't follow up with the UPS claim (because it's a PITA and UPS ALWAYS fights damage claims despite causing so many of them!) is on them, either their packaging wasn't sufficient or they decided to be lazy, so the new case or refund is on them now. 

If the Hiscox case cracked that easily in shipping, personally I'd be looking elsewhere for a replacement so the refund route is likely your best bet.  Sucks to see the case show up cracked, but at least it wasn't as bad as the dude who got the Skervessen that the headstock blew through the end of the case....  They really need to do a better job of getting cases that fit their shapes better (i.e. charge more and buy one of those fitted rifle cases where you can carve out the foam insert yourself) or change their shapes to fit the cases they keep ordering.


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## Grindspine (Oct 22, 2014)

feraledge said:


> "the garlic dipping sauce container was _*djented*_".


 
Fixed.


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## protest (Oct 22, 2014)

thrsher said:


> The case did its job, it protected your guitar, I'm suprised you put so much stock in this situation to go as far as making this thread. *Please explain the difference from you cracking the case in transport vs the guitar being transport to you.* What's the point/purpose of the guitar case?



What's the difference between you dropping your TV and the dude from Best Buy that's carrying it to your car dropping it?

__________


I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels like they slipped into bizarro world when they came into this thread. The guy didn't get the case, say oh look it's broke, and come post this thread on the same day without talking to the company. You can tell by how he's hesitant in his original post (which he also got blasted for) that he knows it's just a case. But what everyone sitting here telling him "it's just a case" doesn't realize is that saying "it's just a case" is an argument *against the company. *

This dude spent *thousands* of dollars on a guitar, and yes $150-200 on the case (it's not free guys). It has taken them 4 months to _maybe_ ship his case to him. I would be ....ing pissed! You're going to sit there after I gave you thousands of dollars for one of your products and it's going to take you ....ing 4 months to do 10 damn minutes of work. All they have to do is take a case that's probably laying around, put it in a box, package it better this time, and ship it.

It's taken them 4 months to do *at most* a half hour's worth of work for a guy that just gave them *thousands of dollars*. The fact that you all are accepting of that is baffling to me. If you bought a $200 guitar case from Guitar Center and it came broken, you'd return it and get a new one. You wouldn't say "oh well it's just a case."


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2014)

^yup.

When you buy a case, its yours to f-up. Not other people before you even own it. If it were my guess, that 150 to 200 might eat up a bunch of their profit. Which sucks, but thats why they should have followed up with the shipper. If they were in the right, then there is no foul. So I assume they must have either screwed up packing it, the shipping company was being dicks(which i'm sure they would have mentioned), OR, they didnt even follow up for the insurance claim.


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## Surveyor 777 (Oct 22, 2014)

My feeling - you paid for a new case, you should be getting that new case in new condition. I don't understand the people who say the OP is making a big deal over this. The OP didn't pay for a case with a crack in it - he paid for a new case. I'm not familiar with the case brand but if they aren't the best quality then I agree with the people who say the OP should get a refund (partial or total).

I'm probably mores sensitive since I'm a Dad who uses most of his money for his family, plus saving for the future and RARELY gets to spend money on himself. So on those times when I can spend $$$ on new things, I want them to be NEW and not damaged. Just got a case from Sweetwater through UPS - packaged great & no scratches or dings. If there was something significant I would have contacted Sweetwater right away.


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## Tesla (Oct 22, 2014)

This whole thread is a great example of People on the Internet.


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## Repsak (Oct 22, 2014)

Why did I waste my time reading through this thread?


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## Surveyor 777 (Oct 22, 2014)

Also, I don't understand the people saying it's the OP is making such a big deal, it's a tiny thing to worry about, etc. The case I just bought was $120. I'm not going to pay $120 and get a case with a crack in it and say "that's OK". No it isn't. If you're young and don't really have any money issues, live at home w/parents or have a large bank account maybe $120 isn't a lot for you. My wife and I make a good living but still our kids and their activities cost a decent amount, plus all the other normal bills we have. 

For those people saying it's not a big deal - this example. If you're in a store, looking at those bookshelves/desks/furniture - those ones that come in a box and you have to put them together. If you see a box that looks completely clean, then you see a box that has footprints on it, rips in the cardboard, etc. - which would you buy? Remember, they are both "new" and you are paying the "new" price for whichever one you choose.

I pick the untouched one.


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## VinnyShredz (Oct 22, 2014)

feraledge said:


> I ordered from a custom shop once. I don't want to name names. I was very clear and like:
> "I want half pepperoni, half pineapple."
> "We'll get that to you soon, sir."
> No ETA, but I'm like "whatever".
> ...



I logged in just to like this comment


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2014)

Tesla said:


> This whole thread is a great example of People on the Internet.



You read my mind dude


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## pushpull7 (Oct 22, 2014)

Tesla said:


> This whole thread is a great example of People on the Internet.



And a few things that can't/won't be said


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## Tom Drinkwater (Oct 22, 2014)

This thread brings up an interesting topic. 

I want everybody who's opinion is that Skervesen is to be held accountable for UPS's damage and bad customer service to put themselves in Skerv's shoes. Imagine shipping a used guitar that you sold to somebody on eBay and the shipper damages it and then drags their feet for months on the claim and then denies it. Are you to be held accountable for UPS's bad business practices? If the answer is no then I'd like to hear why you believe that a manufacturer or custom shop should be held to a different standard.


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## canuck brian (Oct 22, 2014)

I recently had something like this happen with a customer's case. It got banged around something fierce and looks like a forklift came into direct angry pointy contact with it.

I refunded the cash on the case and opened a ticket with Fedex. The guy received damaged product and its not his fault and he shouldn't just "deal" with a busted up case. I feel it's on the builder to make this right up front for the customer and for the builder to figure out the busted case on their own with the company that did the shipping.

All that being said, I've honestly heard really nothing but good things about Skervvy and I love their guitars. They'll set you right, even if they've taken a while doing it.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> This thread brings up an interesting topic.
> 
> I want everybody who's opinion is that Skervesen is to be held accountable for UPS's damage and bad customer service to put themselves in Skerv's shoes. Imagine shipping a used guitar that you sold to somebody on eBay and the shipper damages it and then drags their feet for months on the claim and then denies it. Are you to be held accountable for UPS's bad business practices? If the answer is no then I'd like to hear why you believe that a manufacturer or custom shop should be held to a different standard.



Um... I'd expect UPS to be held accountable honestly. And like I said before, it was probably 1 of 3 things.
1.Skervesen didnt pack it correctly and UPS wont cover it.
2.UPS was being dicks and wouldnt cover it regardless(and if that was the case, I'm sure Skervy would have mentioned that)
3.They just didnt follow up on the claim. Which would make the onus fall back on Skervy.

I dont think anyone is arguing that the damage is not the fault of either party. Its the shippers fault. But the ultimate responsibility lies with the manufacturer to get the product to the customers door un-harmed. So the shipping company f-ed up? No biggy. The customer should get taken care of and the issue should be had between the guitar company and the shipper. The customer shouldnt have to deal with any of it. They paid for a product, they should get the proper product.


If this happened to me personally, selling a guitar? I would make sure it was insured and packaged sufficently. Take pictures. And properly cover my butt. Then when things went south, I could come to the shipping company with a claim and get things properly handled. If the shipping company screwed me and wouldnt pay, then I would just have to deal with it I guess. I sure as hell wouldnt try to pass the buck on to the guy who bought the guitar from me.

*I mentioned UPS. I dont know who the shipping company is, its just habit to blame UPS


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## feraledge (Oct 22, 2014)

I don't think anyone doesn't side with the OP, you pay for a new, unscathed case, you should get a new, unscathed case. All facts on the table, there is plenty of reason to be thankful that the case did it's job and the guitar arrived fine. All of us are aching to see that guitar, BTW. 
The jokes were at the "on the fence" meandering which is what made this thread start out like a run of the mill blind complaint thread which we all know get locked quick and are discouraged in the forum rules. 
Max pointed out quick that if you're going to go through the trouble of posting, then why not post the pics. 
I think that tone from "severely smashed case" to talk about getting ripped off by a custom shop (while more than a handful of forum members might be out of thousands of dollars from custom shop owner hijinks/scams) was just overblown. 

IMO, it's this simple, the OP had reason to complain, but it could've been in the context of a side note to a NGD post and I think there wouldn't have been any jokes at their expense. We all think clearly after we bust a nut on some custom shop NGD porn. But the issue is that Skervesen has said that they're going to take responsibility for the case and will send it. That IS good customer service, BUT their handling was less than superior. 
But that comes with a caveat: Skervesen isn't a huge company. They immediately opened the claim with the shipper and were waiting for that to be resolved before giving the customer a new case. In all reality, that case was still functional even with the 3" crack. It's not going to save the guitar from a flood, but let's be honest, that case was never going to anyways. The rep said they didn't have any cases in, a position bolstered by the fact that their website shows no in stock guitars right now. 
As someone who has to handle customer service for a small company, I can relate. I see "severely smashed case" then it's a 3" crack and the guitar is fine, I'd assure them a replacement and take the steps necessary to get it handled. And I've been in the position where I was waiting on the third party to chime in and then forgot about the email until it came back up again. Not a good practice, but mistakes happen.
Between awaiting the response from UPS some cases went in and out, the rep probably had it on the backburner. Email sent and correction will be made. Does it suck, yes, but this isn't like Fender or Gibson. And admittedly the case doesn't look like it was worth what the OP paid for it. IMO, he should just ship the case back, get the refund and buy a better case while letting Skervesen deal with the damaged goods. OP didn't seem extraordinarily happy with the way the guitar fit in the case anyways. 
Let's not forget that because Skervesen charges thousands for a guitar doesn't mean they're making thousands on that guitar. The difference between eating 130 Euros or Pounds or whatever on that case plus double shipping could be a significant cost that they, for better or worse, couldn't afford to pull out of pocket. 
I'm with the OP, not his problem, but I don't think anything about this is indicative of Skervesen deserving the kind of criticism that Vik, Bernie Rico or however many other custom shops that have and will straight up rip people off.

Let's just say this thread went as planned and other chimed in about their experiences. The second someone on the BRJ scammed list posts, the original complaint seems petty in comparison. 

TL;DR - WE WANT MOAR PICS. Always. 

To the OP: Post up that Skervesen already!


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## technomancer (Oct 22, 2014)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Um......
> 
> I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread. Your all being assholes to this dude. There is not a damn thing wrong with wanting to get what you paid for. If the guy ordered a guitar and a case, he should get them without damage. I dont see why everyone has to be a dick about it???
> 
> ...



I actually agree with you 

As for that last part, I mentioned it didn't matter as from the information he gave when I posted it wasn't clear if it was a dealer for a large brand or a small custom shop. Either way he was being jerked around and they should have given him a replacement case, or credit to buy a new case locally.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Oct 22, 2014)

Almost everything I've ever ordered that arrived via freight truck, fedex, UPS or USPS required that I inspect and make the claim on the product I received. Some companies will go above and beyond and send free replacements or parts but I wouldn't expect that. 

I shipped a used baritone strat to Montana a few years back and it was obviously hit with a forklift but I wasn't allowed to file a claim because the policies required the receiver of the shipment to inspect and make that claim with the shipping company. That was USPS using FedEx as transport. The buyer of the guitar and I both felt screwed so we split the repair cost 50/50. He went on to file a claim which got denied after 90 days, big surprise there, right? The only reason I could afford to be that nice is because the guy had a friend that was a tech and could do the repair for well under the going rate.


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## protest (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> This thread brings up an interesting topic.
> 
> I want everybody who's opinion is that Skervesen is to be held accountable for UPS's damage and bad customer service to put themselves in Skerv's shoes. Imagine shipping a used guitar that you sold to somebody on eBay and the shipper damages it and then drags their feet for months on the claim and then denies it. Are you to be held accountable for UPS's bad business practices? If the answer is no then I'd like to hear why you believe that a manufacturer or custom shop should be held to a different standard.



This is why I'm always nervous when I sell something, and the reason I pack my stuff like it's got to go through the gates of hell to get to the buyer. If I send something that gets broken I expect to have to refund them their money and then file a claim with FedEx/UPS/USPS and eventually probably sue them because they're all dicks with fake "insurance" that they make you pay for. 

I'm also not a company. They're a fairly large custom shop that someone just gave a lot of money to. The damage in this situation is to $150-200 case, not to the entire shipment. It's an easy, relatively inexpensive fix for them.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2014)

technomancer said:


> I actually agree with you


Now I think YOUR taking crazy pills


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## tedtan (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> This thread brings up an interesting topic.
> 
> I want everybody who's opinion is that Skervesen is to be held accountable for UPS's damage and bad customer service to put themselves in Skerv's shoes. Imagine shipping a used guitar that you sold to somebody on eBay and the shipper damages it and then drags their feet for months on the claim and then denies it. Are you to be held accountable for UPS's bad business practices? If the answer is no then I'd like to hear why you believe that a manufacturer or custom shop should be held to a different standard.



In addition to what 7 Strings of Hate posted above, as a business that ships their goods to their customers, Skervesyn have to take these kinds of risks into account and allow for them in their pricing. Why? Because they are a business that expects to reap the rewards of repeat business, referrals and the general goodwill that they derive from taking care of their customers. The alternative is to reap the "rewards" of poor customer service and we all know where that leads, especially in a small market segment like relatively expensive custom guitars, because of posts on forums like this.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Oct 22, 2014)

protest said:


> This is why I'm always nervous when I sell something, and the reason I pack my stuff like it's got to go through the gates of hell to get to the buyer. If I send something that gets broken I expect to have to refund them their money and then file a claim with FedEx/UPS/USPS and eventually probably sue them because they're all dicks with fake "insurance" that they make you pay for.
> 
> I'm also not a company. They're a fairly large custom shop that someone just gave a lot of money to. The damage in this situation is to $150-200 case, not to the entire shipment. It's an easy, relatively inexpensive fix for them.



The manufacturer is replacing the case which I believe is a good business move but I don't believe that they are morally, ethically or legally obligated to do so, they didn't break it. And then this guy posts a thread about how disappointed he is when the manufacturer is actually taking care of him. WTF is wrong with people.


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## narad (Oct 22, 2014)

HighGain510 said:


> They really need to do a better job of getting cases that fit their shapes better (i.e. charge more and buy one of those fitted rifle cases where you can carve out the foam insert yourself) or change their shapes to fit the cases they keep ordering.



Yea, honestly the SKB cases are about $50 more and you could pretty much ship them without a box and be completely fine (not that I'm suggesting it! )


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## HighGain510 (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> This thread brings up an interesting topic.
> 
> I want everybody who's opinion is that Skervesen is to be held accountable for UPS's damage and bad customer service to put themselves in Skerv's shoes. Imagine shipping a used guitar that you sold to somebody on eBay and the shipper damages it and then drags their feet for months on the claim and then denies it. Are you to be held accountable for UPS's bad business practices? If the answer is no then I'd like to hear why you believe that a manufacturer or custom shop should be held to a different standard.



Yes, you are accountable for what you ship. All shipping companies have certain standards that must be maintained to consider a product "properly packaged" if you want them to honor a damage claim, which includes a certain dimension worth of *appropriate* packing material. It's usually several inches and must be something like thick bubble wrap or those bags that can be filled with the expanding foam to form-fit around the item to ensure safety. If you're shipping it, you need to pack to those requirements, and as long as the recipient shows them the proof that there was in fact enough packing material per their standard, they CAN'T deny the claim if it was truly their fault it was damaged. They will ALWAYS try to avoid paying out, but as long as you have picture proof of the packaging used and that the measurements meet their guidelines, you won't have to pay out of pocket. It might take a while to resolve the claim, but they can't refuse to honor it if you paid for insurance and followed their policy. 

I hold no sympathy for folks who underpack or don't use the manufacturer's original packaging and then complain that the buyer is asking for a partial/full refund when the shipping company tells you to fuck off because you threw it in a box and surrounded it with crumpled newspapers or a thin layer of the weak bubblewrap. The only time I've had to get a package of mine covered under a claim was due to FedEx literally ramming a forklift into the center of the box (there was still yellow paint on the cardboard and case from the forklift... fail...) which punctured the case and hit the guitar inside, through several inches of bubble wrap. Guess who won the claim? Me, because I followed their standards and despite it clearly being their fault the box was punctured by the fork lift, they would have said it was "underpacked" if I hadn't followed their guidelines for honoring insurance. So coming back around, YES, I feel you are accountable if your claim gets thrown out because usually the only way they can do that is because you didn't pack it well enough. 

The pics in this case didn't show how much packing material there was inside the case, but my guess based on the box size is that perhaps they didn't adhere to the UPS standard for insured packages, and that's why they won't win the shipping damage claim. On guitars I ship out I try to add extra packing material whenever possible, or if I'm using OEM packing material and it only has a top and bottom insert to suspend the case in the box, I try to put SOME bubble wrap around the case as well whenever possible just to help add a little extra cushion since you know regardless of what service you're using, the guys moving those boxes do not intend to treat them with care since they're being paid to move as many packages as they can as quickly as they can. 

If you're the small builder shipping out an instrument you completed for a customer, the ONUS is absolutely on you to ensure the instrument is packed to whatever the requirement is with the carrier for insurance purposes in addition to getting the item there safely. It literally took me 30 seconds on google to find UPS' shipping preparation guidelines, they outline what is considered their proper packaging requirement with both dimensions for how thick the padding material must be (2" on every side, it seems?) as well as a list of packing materials and what they should/shouldn't be used for if you're shipping with them.



UPS: How to Prepare for Shipping List said:


> Step 2. Provide Internal Protection
> It is important to cushion the contents of your package properly.
> 
> Please be sure that you wrap each item separately. Fragile articles need separation from each other, and from the corners, sides, top, and bottom of the box.
> ...




They pretty much tell you what is and is not acceptable for the types of items you're shipping (protip: if you always use the heavy duty bubblewrap and at least 2" worth of it on all sides, you're good... anything they say is "light-to-medium weight" does NOT apply to packing a guitar), so if you followed that, they would not have denied any type of shipping damage claim. If you did follow that and you lost the claim, you're doing something wrong.


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## protest (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> The manufacturer is replacing the case which I believe is a good business move but I don't believe that they are morally, ethically or legally obligated to do so, they didn't break it. And then this guy posts a thread about how disappointed he is when the manufacturer is actually taking care of him. WTF is wrong with people.



He posted this thread after 4 months of waiting, and being told he was going to get it and never getting it. The manufacturer* has not taken care of him.* That's the whole point. And yea if it was me I would probably have not posted it yet since he just got another email saying they were going to send it out, but lets not act like he's crazy for posting it. He's waited long enough for something that takes minimal effort from the company to fix. I mean they could have just said: do you want $100 back, so you can go buy your own?


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 22, 2014)

Seriously, without seeing the guitar, the only answer I'm going to give is:

Case damage minor, you can either sweat your balls of for a new case or just gaffa tape it. In all seriousness, that case is going to look way worse once you've had it in the back of a van, car, flown it etc. THose plastic cases take a little beating, but don't do well with pressure applied to them. Reason there's a crack is shipping company put something heavy on top of it, which then caused a stress crack.

Buy a new, decent, case. Made from wood panelling, or a flight case. 

THe case you have now is not roadworthy, and a replacemnt case won't be roadworthy either.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 22, 2014)

hikizume976 said:


> I've had a few cases for at least 7 years (one is 18 years old). Have seen many gigs and have travelled thousands of miles by air, sea and land as I've lived in four different countries. Not one case is in this condition, and this one is supposed to be brand new! IF cases are going to get trashed, I expect them to be in time, because of wear, by me. Not right out of the gate, before I've had the chance to use it for the first time.
> 
> Which is why I'm not going to buy something, have it arrive in this shape, and be cool with it, either. Never have in the past while buying not only guitars and basses, but also cabs, heads and rack gear, as well as TVs, computers, sound systems, etc. So why start now?
> 
> However, not getting what I payed for, whatever the reason, is one thing, but not one that bothers me. Seeing this issue being unresolved for almost four months and counting and feeling like it hasn't been addressed properly is a different thing. That's what bothers me. Just got to a point where I felt like this was worth sharing.


I must add, i agree that you should get what you paid for.

However, you must have been lucky with your cases, the amount of cases that have had locks ripped off, have had corners crushed, splits, and other damage I've had from touring/flying/giging locally is insane. I'll only fly in flightcases now, same with gigging, main guitars go in heavy ass flight cases.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Oct 22, 2014)

> What's the difference between you dropping your TV and the dude from Best Buy that's carrying it to your car dropping it?


 
/\ This is what I'm talking about. This mentality is wrong. There is a 3rd party involved when shipping a guitar. That 3rd party is responsible for shipping the guitar. Leveraging your position by threatening to or making a bad public review on a product or service to get money back or free product from the manufacturer sounds a lot like extortion. The only reason people go after the manufacturer isn't because the manufacturer is liable, they have the most to lose if bad reviews get out so they are the easiest way to get paid. Sorry but it's dishonest anyway you slice it. 

I get what people are saying about proper packaging and I'm will to bet Skervesen can pack a guitar properly in a box otherwise I'm sure we'd have a sticky on the topic by now.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> The manufacturer is replacing the case which I believe is a good business move but I don't believe that they are morally, ethically or legally obligated to do so, they didn't break it. And then this guy posts a thread about how disappointed he is when the manufacturer is actually taking care of him. WTF is wrong with people.



Not that you're biased or anything...   Read my post above. They LIKELY didn't follow the UPS terms and didn't pack 2" around every side, which is why the thing got punctured like that and they can deny the damage claim. If Skervesen chose to underpack so any insurance claims with the carrier would be automatically denied without any chance to fight the claim, they are absolutely both legally and ethically required to handle the damaged item, regardless of it being the case or the guitar itself. Both were items the buyer paid for and their inability (or incompetence for not reading the shipping guidelines when running a business that requires them to ship items to their buyers) to package properly resulted in the item being damaged in transit. 

They may not have been the ones to trample the box, but by not packing adequately to ensure the insurance claim could be filed and won if UPS damaged his box, the responsibility still falls on them to make the buyer whole on that one. This is business 101, so the fact that you're so adamantly fighting it calls into question your own business outlook.  If you underpacked and shipped an item to a buyer that got busted in transit, it shouldn't be a 50/50 split, that responsibility for ensuring the item gets there safely falls on the SHIPPER, not the buyer. Accidents in shipping happen all the time, but adhering to the standards of the carrier for insurance purposes falls on you, the shipper, and by not doing so you have now made yourself the responsible party for any damage that takes place during transit.  Not sure how/why you would question that morally, ethically OR legally... that case has been put forth many times before and historically, an item not packed to the letter of the carrier's requirement for insurable parcels that is damaged in transit falls back on the party shipping the item, not the shipping company.


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## wiretap (Oct 22, 2014)

But really, am I the only one who thinks it's crazy how cheap and shitty of a case that is to accompany what is supposedly a high-end custom instrument? And not even form-fitted? Or is that par for the course for these hype builders?


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## protest (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> /\ This is what I'm talking about. This mentality is wrong. There is a 3rd party involved when shipping a guitar. That 3rd party is responsible for shipping the guitar. Leveraging your position by threatening to or making a bad public review on a product or service to get money back or free product from the manufacturer sounds a lot like extortion. The only reason people go after the manufacturer isn't because the manufacturer is liable, they have the most to lose if bad reviews get out so they are the easiest way to get paid. Sorry but it's dishonest anyway you slice it.I get what people are saying about proper packaging and I'm will to bet Skervesen can pack a guitar properly in a box otherwise I'm sure we'd have a sticky on the topic by now.



I had a response for all this, but I just stopped. 

You were talking before about what good business is, but what you're doing right now is bad business because I wouldn't buy anything from you based off the things you've said in this thread.

If I remember correctly Matt had a guitar that UPS dropped off without getting a signature. Someone stole it from his porch, and so PRS built him a new one. That is good business, that's how you keep people coming back.


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## narad (Oct 22, 2014)

wiretap said:


> But really, am I the only one who thinks it's crazy how cheap and shitty of a case that is to accompany what is supposedly a high-end custom instrument? And not even form-fitted? Or is that part for the course for these hype builders?



Same case that Daemoness and blackmachine use...


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## wiretap (Oct 22, 2014)

narad said:


> Same case that Daemoness and blackmachine use...



Haha, go figure.


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## tedtan (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> /\ This is what I'm talking about. This mentality is wrong. There is a 3rd party involved when shipping a guitar. That 3rd party is responsible for shipping the guitar. Leveraging your position by threatening to or making a bad public review on a product or service to get money back or free product from the manufacturer sounds a lot like extortion. The only reason people go after the manufacturer isn't because the manufacturer is liable, they have the most to lose if bad reviews get out so they are the easiest way to get paid. Sorry but it's dishonest anyway you slice it.
> 
> I get what people are saying about proper packaging and I'm will to bet Skervesen can pack a guitar properly in a box otherwise I'm sure we'd have a sticky on the topic by now.



But the issue is between the manufacturer and the shipper they chose to use. Why should the customer be stuck waiting for the manufacturer to resolve the issue (that can't cost them more than $50-100, max) when the manufacturer can ship out a new case to the customer while simultaneously taking the appropriate steps to address the issue with the shipper? Please justify that before accusing people of extortion and dishonesty (who lied, but the way?).


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## HighGain510 (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> /\ This is what I'm talking about. This mentality is wrong. There is a 3rd party involved when shipping a guitar. *That 3rd party is responsible for shipping the guitar.* Leveraging your position by threatening to or making a bad public review on a product or service to get money back or free product from the manufacturer sounds a lot like extortion. The only reason people go after the manufacturer isn't because the manufacturer is liable, they have the most to lose if bad reviews get out so they are the easiest way to get paid. Sorry but it's dishonest anyway you slice it.
> 
> I get what people are saying about proper packaging and I'm will to bet Skervesen can pack a guitar properly in a box otherwise I'm sure we'd have a sticky on the topic by now.



They're responsible for transporting the guitar from point A to point B, as in the TRANSPORTATION/SHIPPING of the guitar itself. You, the seller/shipper, are responsible for PACKAGING THE GUITAR to ensure it should not be damaged in transit, or that should it be damaged by the shipping company the packing of the item is deemed "sufficient" for insurance coverage. You keep acting like the shipping company is the original source of the package. You as the shipper have the reasonable expectation that they will not destroy the package in transit, however this is clearly not always how things work hence the option of insurance and the policies put in place that YOU THE SHIPPER are required to follow if you want the insurance claim to be paid out should damage occur. I feel like you just keep circling back to push all blame onto the shipping company and absolve yourself of any wrong-doing by under-packing the parcel in the first place. IF YOU PACKAGE THE ITEM WITHIN THEIR GUIDELINES USING APPROPRIATE MATERIALS, YOU WILL BE COVERED. If you want to throw newspaper in a box and hope for the best, you absolutely lose any ability to blame the damage on the shipping company, it's that simple. They're responsible for the logistics of the package, if they lose it somewhere mid-transit and you insured the contents for the full amount, that is the only case where the shipping company is going to be held liable for the package contents and not you as the shipper.

Trying to spin it to say the buyer is dishonest is the biggest cop-out in the world. You're a retailer of instruments, of course you don't want people coming to you for shipping damage issues. That doesn't mean when a guitar or case is damaged in transit and the insurance can't be honored due to how Skervesen packaged it, they suddenly get the right to dance around replacing the case or refunding the money. It's not dishonest to post about it publicly so other folks are aware that they've literally had MONTHS to replace the case but still have not done so. I for one would definitely want to know information like that about a small luthier before I thought about sending them my money. After reading this thread, it seems I now have two builders that I won't be doing business with in the future.  

The bottom line is that a builder replacing what appears to be a standard production Hiscox case shouldn't be an endeavor that takes 4 months and several emails checking for status to complete. I feel the OP has a very valid gripe as he has proof that Skervesen has now told him on several occasions that they were going to make good on their promise to get him a new case (and claimed they were shipping it out, yet clearly they didn't...) and failed to ever send him the replacement or reimburse him for a new case. When you've given them 4 months to replace a hardshell case and decided enough is enough and go public with it, that's not extortion. I missed the part in any of his emails where he stated "If I don't get my case by next week, I'm blowing the lid off this whole debacle and publicly shaming your company on every guitar forum I post on, bitch!", so please tell me when that occurred? 

Sorry Tom, the builder really can't play the victim here, it's clear from the emails Skervesen dicked him around for 4 months straight and appears to have no intention of actually shipping out the case. From July to August Maciek claimed he was working with UPS on the damage claim (which might be reasonable, if UPS has up to 30 days to respond to the claim, they might drag their feet as long as they can, wouldn't shock me in the slightest ) so fair enough.... but then ALL of August goes by and the next note is in September saying UPS is supposed to give their final word on the situation? There might be some missing emails in there, but seems like 2 months passed and that should have been WELL beyond what it would take for resolution of a damage claim with the carrier. Another week goes by and he says he'll ship out the following week when they get their next shipment of cases. FOURTY-TWO DAYS LATER, he says "oh I didn't send you a case from that batch, my bad, I'll get you with the next batch..." and you're telling me the buyer is the dishonest one here? No offense but you have to draw the line somewhere and if you are looking at this case and saying it's not the seller's fault and the buyer is being dishonest and trying to extort a new case out of Skervesen by finally letting folks know what he's being put through to get a replacement case, I don't even know what to say...


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## lemeker (Oct 22, 2014)

I do agree with a few other people, that the OP's case should have been tits. You guys *are* right, he paid for it, it should reflect the money he paid. I would expect the same. I never once thought the OP was in the wrong, I just thought for a crack that size, he was overreacting a bit.

I drew my opinion (and still feel the same) based off of the initial post which said "massive crack", to seeing a picture with a small crack the length of two picks. I agree it should have been dealt with a little more swiftly. I, however, don't believe it warranted a thread of this nature. (....but that's like my opinion man)

I think he could have chosen his words a little more carefully when he posted. Something more along the lines of "Blah blah blah guitar is cool.......but one thing happened." It would have come across better than than "this case has a massive crack......I'm being played (or feel like it, I think he said)." 

In the end it seems as though it's working itself out. We can now move on to the really important thing....let's see that axe!!!!!!


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> /\ This is what I'm talking about. This mentality is wrong. There is a 3rd party involved when shipping a guitar. That 3rd party is responsible for shipping the guitar. Leveraging your position by threatening to or making a bad public review on a product or service to get money back or free product from the manufacturer sounds a lot like extortion. The only reason people go after the manufacturer isn't because the manufacturer is liable, they have the most to lose if bad reviews get out so they are the easiest way to get paid. Sorry but it's dishonest anyway you slice it.
> 
> I get what people are saying about proper packaging and I'm will to bet Skervesen can pack a guitar properly in a box otherwise I'm sure we'd have a sticky on the topic by now.



Dude, judging by what you've said in this thread, you might be a great luither, but your shady as hell with your business practices.

I guess its better that you showed bad judgement by comming in here and commenting on your stance as a manufacturer. Might save some of the board members from getting screwed.


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## protest (Oct 22, 2014)

@ Matt,

Yea that's what I started typing and stopped cause I knew I wasn't going to be able to keep it brief 



lemeker said:


> In the end it seems as though it's working itself out. We can now move on to the really important thing....let's see that axe!!!!!!



Yea, seriously. I'm about to start a thread about how we've been waiting for Javier to post his guitar for like a day now, and he's been dragging his feet.


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## hikizume976 (Oct 22, 2014)

In terms of the packaging, the case barely fits in the box it came in...


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## HighGain510 (Oct 22, 2014)

hikizume976 said:


> In terms of the packaging, the guitar barely fits in the box it came in...



Pro.  That right there is why UPS rejected their claim, no two ways about it. If you don't see 2" of packing material around every side, they're going to go *"This is our fault? INSUFFICIENT PACKING MATERIAL! NEEEEEXT!!!"* and throw that case right out the window. I'm actually doubting he even bothered filing the claim, no chance in hell they would honor an insurance claim on something where the case is dead touching the walls of the box on all sides.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2014)

Well looking at those pictures, UPS would have told them to get lost.

Edit: Matt, youve ninjaed me for the last time!!!!


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## protest (Oct 22, 2014)

You might as well just skip the box and ship it in the case.


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## tedtan (Oct 22, 2014)

protest said:


> You were talking before about what good business is, but what you're doing right now is bad business because I wouldn't buy anything from you based off the things you've said in this thread.


 


HighGain510 said:


> After reading this thread, it seems I now have two builders that I won't be doing business with in the future.





7 Strings of Hate said:


> Dude, judging by what you've said in this thread, you might be a great luither, but your shady as hell with your business practices.


 

You seeing a trend here, too, Tom?


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## Tom Drinkwater (Oct 22, 2014)

tedtan said:


> You seeing a trend here, too, Tom?



You call it a trend but I'd use the word culture. You can't approach a small manufacturer like it's Walmart.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Oct 22, 2014)

I just laughed so hard while reading through this thread. 

Thanks, everyone. Deuces.


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## technomancer (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> You call it a trend but I'd use the word culture. You can't approach a small manufacturer like it's Walmart.



Large, small, I expect stuff I buy to not show up broken and the place I bought it from to make good if it does 

That said I'm not sure it matters as I think 7SoH and I both coming down on the same side of an issue means the apocalypse is about to begin


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## andyjanson (Oct 22, 2014)

This is the first time I've witnessed one of these potential future legendary SSO threads unfold in real time. Exciting stuff


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## protest (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> You call it a trend but I'd use the word culture. You can't approach a small manufacturer like it's Walmart.



I've always assumed that if the things I shipped get damaged it's on me to get it taken care of, and I'm not a manufacturer of any size, I'm just a dude that occasionally sells things online.


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## tedtan (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> You call it a trend but I'd use the word culture. You can't approach a small manufacturer like it's Walmart.



Culture? Wal-Mart? 

You've just heard from several potential customers that they won't be purchasing a guitar from you because they disagree with your business practices and customer service. Yet instead of getting a clue, you put your foot back in your mouth by speaking of culture and Wal-Mart.

No one expects you to buy your products from Chinese sweat shops in order to keep your prices low. No one expects you to be open 24 hours a day. And no one is expecting you to cater to the poor and lower middle class demographics. If they were, they'd just go buy a First Act directly from Wal-Mart.

Think of it like this, Tom: you're participating in what is the best market research group for your products you could ask for, especially as a small business owner who likely doesn't have the funds necessary in order to conduct proper market research. It behooves you to pay attention to what your potential customers are telling you they value in a builder/retailer/etc. That way you can cater to your customers desires and THAT'S how you'll get more business from them. Whereas if you keep ignoring your potential customers, you'll find yourself going down the shitter sooner than you seem to realize (just look at Vik and Bernie Rico to name just two).

Don't misunderstand - I don't have anything against you. But the answers are right here in front of you. People are trying to give them to you. But you seem to come across as too arrogant and too ignorant to accept them.

Maybe it will put things in perspective to think of the golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules. And who is holding that gold, Tom - you or your customers?


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## protest (Oct 22, 2014)

tedtan said:


> Culture? Wal-Mart?
> 
> You've just heard from several potential customers that they won't be purchasing a guitar from you because they disagree with your business practices and customer service. Yet instead of getting a clue, you put your foot back in your mouth by speaking of culture and Wal-Mart.
> 
> No one expects you to buy your products from Chinese sweat shops in order to keep your prices low. No one expects you to be open 24 hours a day.* And no one is expecting you to cater to the poor and lower middle class demographics*. If they were, they'd just go buy a First Act directly from Wal-Mart.



Whoa whoa whoa there boss. I shop at Walmart, and I am firmly in the lower half of the mid middle class.


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## Alex Kenivel (Oct 22, 2014)

_What_ middle class? 







And is been long enough Javi, four page thread and just pictures of a guitar case? 










GIMME DA PRONZ


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## Surveyor 777 (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> You call it a trend but I'd use the word culture. You can't approach a small manufacturer like it's Walmart.



No you can't approach a small manufacturer like it's Walmart - that small manufacturer should do a few things extra to make that client happy, like in a case (no pun intended) like this.

In my business (surveying) if we do a survey project for $2000-$3000 (I use this number because I think this is about the price range of these custom guitars) and there's a goof-up on our end or not on our end - if it takes $100-$200 to solve a problem to make the client happy, I'll do it. We'll eat that loss. That rarely ever happens and I assume that's the same thing with the OP - it's one of those things that don't happen often but it did happen to him.

We don't advertise, except for being in the phone book/yellow pages and we do have a website - we don't put out signs at projects, we don't advertise in the paper or magazines. We rely heavily on word-of-mouth and repeat clients. Just got a call the other day - guy wants to hire us for something and he got a positive recommendation from a former client. Today got a call from a past client. We try to do things to make people happy and yet make a profit. We've been in business for over 43 years so we're doing OK.

Also, looking at the new photos with the case and the box it came in, the guitar company was not thinking properly when shipping this.

I guess what I'm trying to say is if you are a small company, do a few extra things to make your client happy, if it's necessary. These guitars are talked about over and over on the Internet and I assume that's where quite a few clients come from. If you show that you're difficult to work with, you'll probably have fewer clients.

If you're as big as Walmart, then you can afford to have some people hate you and never come back. There's plenty more people that will shop at your store.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 22, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> You call it a trend but I'd use the word culture. You can't approach a small manufacturer like it's Walmart.



I totally understand what your saying. Small shops have a harder time making ends meet. I totally understand. But if you cant do business right, then don't do business. When you pass off problems and costs onto the customer when they are absolutly innocent, then you need to go get a job at walmart.

When done properly, both parties can be protected. This was not some unavoidable situation. It was the manufacturer either not following up with a claim, OR, he didnt pack it properly according to the shipper's instructions and therefore, is at fault.


In skevys case, they could have covered the problem, the OP could have mentioned it in his NGD thread, and that alone would help garner more business for skevy because people are looking for small shops they can trust.


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## jrstinkfish (Oct 22, 2014)

hikizume976 said:


> In terms of the packaging, the case barely fits in the box it came in...


Oh sweet jesus ... I guess the box was just for holding the label. I'm just a dude who sells/trades here on SSO, and I go waaaaay overboard on the packaging (check my feedback, it's almost comical that just about every comment mentions it). I don't think I could show my face in the Marketplace again if I shipped a guitar like those photos. They must ship quite a few, certainly they know better.

Maybe it's the new guy at the shop.


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## JP Universe (Oct 22, 2014)

Repsak said:


> Why did I waste my time reading through this thread?


 
You kidding? These threads are the best to read through.... I'm enjoying every second


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## cjms1997 (Oct 22, 2014)

So, uh, OP. You gonna give us an NGD anytime soon? Maybe a pic or two? It could be a shitty cellphone pic, I don't care. Just give me something. PLEASE!


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## poopyalligator (Oct 22, 2014)

You came back to post a picture of the case and no guitar WTF!


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## Dominoes282 (Oct 22, 2014)




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## Erockomania (Oct 22, 2014)

Some could argue that putting padding around the case might make the box less rigid and more prone to being gashed. Padding on the inside won't stop anything pointy. Padding on the inside would, however, make the ride a little softer overall for the guitar 

FWIW, my Skerv came packed very similarly if I remember correctly, and it was in perfect shape. This was after a trip from Poland to California. My guess is that UPS simply wasn't very gentle at all with the OPs package. They simply don't give much of a shit about anything. Skervesen should step up and make it right even tho it probably wasn't their fault.


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## will_shred (Oct 23, 2014)

This whole thread... I don't even...  







I'm with Alex, can we please just see the Skerv already? 

OP pls.


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## 101 (Oct 23, 2014)

A custom build thread and the only issue is the case is banged up? Is this an option? and no I didn't read it, F-me right?


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## pushpull7 (Oct 23, 2014)

n/m

I'm in over my head


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## Hollowway (Oct 23, 2014)

Mod edit:

I'm wiping this out, but use another user's attempted sale out of context in this fashion again and there will be a long nap involved. Got it?


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## Hollowway (Oct 23, 2014)

To weigh in on the actual topic, I can see the customer's standpoint that it arrived broken and it's not his fault. And my guess would be that Skervesen would have replaced the case if they knew for sure that the customer was honest and it arrived broken. I say that only because we all know customers who break crap and try to take advantage of others. Like the people who buy a wake board at costco in June and then return it for a full refund in September, saying they, "decided they didn't like it." I have no way to know if this is what Skervesen was thinking, but they don't have a reputation of shoddy customer service. 
But I also totally agree that it's way easier to just refund some money or send out a case to make a customer happy in a situation like this. It's just a tough call to know what the real story is, and to guess what everyone is thinking. But I also can't help but feel like this isn't really that big of a deal, compared to the guitar I've had under construction for 3.5 years with no updates, or the guitar I will never get due to the luthier disappearing, or the neck that was supposed to be replaced 3 years ago that hasn't happened, or the $3500 custom with a screwed up paint job that the company won't address, or any of the other huge issues this profession seems to dole out to us on a regular basis.


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## FromTheMausoleum (Oct 23, 2014)

canuck brian said:


> I recently had something like this happen with a customer's case. It got banged around something fierce and looks like a forklift came into direct angry pointy contact with it.
> 
> I refunded the cash on the case and opened a ticket with Fedex. The guy received damaged product and its not his fault and he shouldn't just "deal" with a busted up case. I feel it's on the builder to make this right up front for the customer and for the builder to figure out the busted case on their own with the company that did the shipping.
> 
> All that being said, I've honestly heard really nothing but good things about Skervvy and I love their guitars. They'll set you right, even if they've taken a while doing it.



This was my case, reading through this thread made me really happy about how you dealt with that situation.  Some shipping companies need a swift kick in the ass though.


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## hikizume976 (Oct 23, 2014)

You may have seen the guitar already, as it was featured in their facebook while it was in the making.

I'll get around to do a proper NGD. In the meantime, here's a couple of pics













Now I understand the complaints regarding cell phone pictures. This pictures do the guitar zero justice. Also the top color is much more chocolate than orange.

its really light, the thing demands to be played fast! looks great, sounds great, plays great.

It has ash body, spalted maple top. maple neck, ebony fretboard. bare knuckles a-bomb bridge, vhii neck. hanes bridge.


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## JP Universe (Oct 23, 2014)

Browsing through the thread and just after one of Highgains posts about shipping and how a forklift once went through a case&#8230;..


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## HighGain510 (Oct 23, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> See, this is why we can't have nice things.  Here we have a luthier who has never screwed anyone over, participates actively on the forum and in this community, who reaches out and helps other luthiers and players for free, and who has expressed an opinion about how he sees this issue and you're calling him shady? Jesus Crist dude, if that's he case I'm going to call you shady for trying to sell a broken Carvin in the classifieds. You know full well this forum is chock full of people trying to pull a fast one on honest people (like the guy who tried to lie to get a free guitar from a luthier), and people who have a wildly unrealistic idea of what they should be getting for their money (a quilt too that wasn't the right amount of quilty in their mind). Have a different opinion if you want, but don't get your panties in a bunch trying to call out someone's business or character because they disagree with you. Want to know how Tom treats he customers? Here's an example: I bought an OAF 10 string from him and had custom Villex pups made. I got the guitar and the pups had the magnets oriented other than what I wanted. Tom took the guitar back (paid for shipping both ways), remade the pup shells, got Villex to remake them, and then got it back to me. He could have said it was on me, because I dealt directly with Villex. And then my O4P string broke a few weeks later, and I asked Tom about how he was able to get them to not break. So he bought me five more strings and had them shipped too me. That was WAY better service than I've had from any other luthier. It's why he's building three customs for me now. And he returns my emails and is an honest guy. So sorry if you don't like him defending his profession, but I hardly think you have anywhere near enough info to be making judgements about his business. What this forum needs is honest information about luthiers so we don't, as a group, keep getting screwed over. Coming in a talking out of your ass isn't helping anyone.



While it's great that he went through the extra effort to sort out your pickups for you (which honestly, sounds like he did more than he really needed to on that one, you shipped the whole guitar to him so pickups could be swapped...? ), but it doesn't change what he posted in this thread. Seems like it actually directly contradicts itself in fact, he's willing to pay round trip shipping and swap pickups out with the manufacturer yet an item damaged in shipping due to negligence on the packing materials and box size used is something he vehemently rejects as the fault of the person who is shipping to the buyer?  It just doesn't add up. 

To then return to the thread and drop this pearl of wisdom:



Tom Drinkwater said:


> You call it a trend but I'd use the word culture. You can't approach a small manufacturer like it's Walmart.



No, the culture on this forum is that there is a reasonable expectation that after spending $2-4K on a custom built guitar, the builder should package the item according to the insurance guidelines set forth by the shipping company to avoid playing the game of "who should be left holding the bag?" if shipping damage should occur. We're all TERRIBLE people for having that expectation. 

I think, sadly, the culture around here has become that of "I MUST have ______ (insert latest newbie small builder here) custom shop build me a sick guitar!!!" and people are apparently willing to shell out crazy money to some unknown guy for a "custom guitar" but there is little-to-no track record of the builder's performance or long-term builds out in the wild. Some have expectations set higher than they should when they're dealing with some guy who has less than 100 builds under his belt, but they should all have the expectation that if nothing else, the builder will package the guitar properly so should a shipping company damage something inside the box, they will be compensated for the damage as they were buying a NEW guitar and a NEW case, not "slightly used" or "partially-damaged" items. 

I honestly don't think that's too much to ask of a builder, if you disagree then you would be wrong (ethically, morally and above all LEGALLY), feel free to argue but the minute someone opens up a case with their CC company, you're going to lose time and time again because it's been proven repeatedly the onus of ensuring an item is packaged safely falls on the sender, not the recipient or the shipping company (unless you're paying a UPS Store, FedEx Office or Mailboxes Etc. type place to pack it for you, in which case if they under-pack the item, it's on *THEM* but only because you paid them [entirely too much] to safely pack your item on your behalf).  

But hey, if you're cool throwing a custom-built guitar inside the case and just putting that in a cardboard box without packaging like Skervesen did to this one, go for it! Just don't be mad when UPS kicks the ever-living shit out of the box all the way to the buyer's doorstep and something is obviously busted up on the inside when he receives it, and when the angry buyer asks you to take care of it you best be prepared to take it on the chin.  They will win every time, that's why it's in YOUR best interest to just pack the damn thing correctly the first time so you don't have to deal with that shit in the first place.  

I shouldn't even have to explain this, and if you're in the business of selling instruments (be it full builds or parts to assemble one) I do find it shocking to see so much fight from you on the subject of shipping/packing responsibility for sales, Tom. Despite what Hollowway seems to say, I still can't find any redeeming qualities from your posts in this thread since they seem totally contrary to his story about the customer service he received from you previously (maybe that scenario is what changed things for you? ). 




JP Universe said:


> Browsing through the thread and just after one of Highgains posts about shipping and how a forklift once went through a case&#8230;..




Also, lulz.


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## Yianni54 (Oct 23, 2014)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> The manufacturer is replacing the case which I believe is a good business move but I don't believe that they are morally, ethically or legally obligated to do so, they didn't break it. And then this guy posts a thread about how disappointed he is when the manufacturer is actually taking care of him. WTF is wrong with people.



The manufacturer SAID they would take care of him and replace the case, has that happened yet? How many months went bye? 4 months! Has he received a new case?

Oh that's right they couldn't possibly have a Hscox case laying around they had to wait for a "shipment". What that is, is Skervesen hoping the OP would forget this whole thing and let it go. If that's not a run around not sure what is. Humm, sorry but as far as I can see the manufacturer hasn't done anything up to this point to make anything right! Saying and doing are two different things.

What if Skervesen didn't have any other cases BUT a dented case and they figured, "hey let's not hold this guys shipment up any longer, let's give him this dented case and blame it on UPS." Not saying this happened but it could be a possibility. And it goes right in line with the fact that Skervesen didn't have anymore cases and that's why they had to wait for a shipment.

And at the end of the day the OP probably just wants people to be aware of how Skervesen is dealing with customer complaints. This worries me considering I just put down a deposit for a Raptor 2 months ago. 

This is the power of this forum. As a business Skervesen knows and understands these forums and NGD's are advertising mediums for them. This is without a doubt where there business comes from. Places like here and Facebook. This is where people show off there new axes and discuss luthier quality. 

Now the one thing no one has said and hopefully the OP doesn't take offense, but there are 3 sides to every story (his, yours and the truth). Not saying OP is at fault or UPS is not at fault but we haven't really heard Skervesens side of the story. Yes we saw some emails but were they ALL the emails? Let's be honest when we are making a case for ourselves we like to omit info that could discredit our case and only focus on facts which strengthen the case. 

Finally, even if it is the shipping carriers fault, if the carrier is not willing to take care of it, then the right thing for Skervesen to do is to replace the case or at least offer to pay 50% for a new one. Even if Skervesen pays 50% they are still ahead of the game considering they are making a killing. Of the Euro strength and the weak dollar. This is the price of doing business and as someone else said that should be built into the price of the guitar, which in my opinion is about 3 fold because none of these guitars are worth 3+ thousand when you actually take into account the materials and the fact that they are buying in bulk at half the price it would cost the average joe. However, basic economics shows that the market dictates the price and if you can create the perception it become reality but that's another discussion altogether. 

In any event, people shouldn't rag on the OP. He did what I believe most would do, and that is bring light to a situation where a business owner is not doing what they should and let others on this forum know about it. So in fact, the OP is doing all who are interested in buying a Skervesen a favor by supplying information on how that business operates.

So in my opinion I say thanks to OP and now I know when my custom raptor shows up if the box is dented or something doesn't look right I will refuse delivery and/or make the case immediately.


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## hikizume976 (Oct 23, 2014)

Yianni54 said:


> He did what I believe most would do, and that is bring light to a situation where a business owner is not doing what they should and let others on this forum know about it. So in fact, the OP is doing all who are interested in buying a Skervesen a favor by supplying information on how that business operates.



That was the point of my post and that's the point of forums if you ask me, help each other out. 

A lot of people chipped in with useful info, so thank you guys  I think the post fulfilled its purpose.


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## narad (Oct 23, 2014)

Yianni54 said:


> they are still ahead of the game considering they are making a killing. Of the Euro strength and the weak dollar.



No.


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## Chokey Chicken (Oct 23, 2014)

One thing I will say is that that's a beautiful guitar. While it is a shame your case was ....ed, and I do hope that gets sorted, I'm glad it was just the case and not the guitar. 

I don't think it says a whole lot about skerv though. Once in a while shit like this is going to happen, and this is the first I've seen of it. That packing is pretty iffy, though my km-7 came packed like that (albeit there was a second box outside of the one it was crammed into) from DCGL. Hope it works out for you in the end.


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## Fred the Shred (Oct 23, 2014)

"Shady case"

*...looks at pics and sees a Hiscox...*

Alrighty then! It is absolutely no good to mention how my own Hiscox stuff has been around the globe with me and the guitars never had an issue, maybe because proper padding was sorted from the get go and they are resilient as all hell. Also, assuming the correct model was used, it fits all RG types quite well with no slips, yet I am unware if that was the case here at all, yet minimal padding gets the job done in any case and the guitar was indeed not damaged. I am yet to break one after 5 years of having them, and they did see a fair bit of road abuse. Now that that is out of the way...

On the subject of sending a new case, I do agree the Skervie crew was far too slow to compensate the buyer, yet they already admitted to that themselves. The guitars (and cases) I received from them were quite well packed, so this was a bit of excessive confidence right there, but without seeing the interior packing can't be sure of whether it was insufficient or just a remarkably aggressive hit. Since insurance does presume that the instructions were fully implemented though, it's a non-issue.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 23, 2014)

Edit: Nevermind. Thanks for the above mods. Its very appreciated.


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## cjms1997 (Oct 23, 2014)

hikizume976 said:


> You may have seen the guitar already, as it was featured in their facebook while it was in the making.
> 
> I'll get around to do a proper NGD. In the meantime, here's a couple of pics
> 
> ...




Okay guys, this is what we came for. 

/thread


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## eaeolian (Oct 23, 2014)

technomancer said:


> Large, small, I expect stuff I buy to not show up broken and the place I bought it from to make good if it does
> 
> That said I'm not sure it matters as I think 7SoH and I both coming down on the same side of an issue means the apocalypse is about to begin



Agreed on both points, especially #2.


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## wiretap (Oct 23, 2014)

So I guess that about wraps up Case-Gate.. And not one single Polish joke. Djent nerds do not deliver.

After the success of this thread you could always ebay the official Case-Gate case and use the money to fund a decent one!


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## Hachetjoel (Oct 23, 2014)




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## VBCheeseGrater (Oct 23, 2014)

Nice guitar!!

Yup, as a connoisseur of cheap sh*t, that case exterior is pretty lousy (although the interior looks great). I'd have gone after the refund on the case and bought my own.


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## russmuller (Oct 23, 2014)

HighGain510 said:


> While it's great that he went through the extra effort to sort out your pickups for you (which honestly, sounds like he did more than he really needed to on that one, you shipped the whole guitar to him so pickups could be swapped...? ), but it doesn't change what he posted in this thread. Seems like it actually directly contradicts itself in fact, he's willing to pay round trip shipping and swap pickups out with the manufacturer yet an item damaged in shipping due to negligence on the packing materials and box size used is something he vehemently rejects as the fault of the person who is shipping to the buyer? It just doesn't add up.



Wow, this whole thread escalated quickly. I disagree with the people piling on the OP; I think he was being totally reasonable in trying to sort out the issue and with this thread. There have been a lot of valid points brought up and I think that a lot of the back-and-forth here is because you guys are hitting on different talking points (especially with Tom from OAF).

*Common ground:*
I think we can all agree that great customer service would have been a prompt replacement of the case by Skervy. I think we can also all agree that it was bad service for them to say they would resolve/replace it and take many months to reach a resolution.

*Jumping to conclusions?*
You seem to be very adamant that the cause of OP's issue was improper packing from Skervesen, but I don't recall that being clearly established by any evidence in this thread so taking a stand on that point seems like attacking a straw man. (I admit that I may have overlooked it, also I'm at work and can't see any of the images in the thread, so I apologize if it's in plain sight and I'm wrong about this).

Certainly if it was poorly packed, that is 100% on Skervesen. And I agree with you guys 100% that it would be great customer service if they had immediately exchanged the case for a new one and either sorted it out with UPS or ate the loss on their own.

*Tom's statements:*
I think what Tom is trying to say is that since Skervesen didn't make the case and was not responsible for the damage to the case, they are not under an ethical obligation to incur costs to replace it. Skervesen did not lie, cheat, or steal from the customer. When it's your own business, your own money, and someone wants you to fix something that wasn't your fault, it's hard for your first conclusion to be that you should be financially responsible for a resolution.

That is not to say that Tom thinks that it's a good practice or good customer service not to resolve the issue, nor does it suggest that Tom wouldn't bend over backwards to make his customers happy (as Hollowway shared).

But when you're running a business that deals with low volume and small margins, you might not have the resources to respond to issues with the kind of magic-wand service we come to expect from most service-oriented businesses. It's my impression that Tom is trying to highlight that this expectation is not always reasonable when dealing with a small business whose product was not defective.

I don't think Tom is defending the fact that Skervesen has taken a long time, or really anything in this particular situation. He's just pointing out that there is another point of view besides the "the customer is always right," and that you can make a reasonable argument that the luthier is not compelled to go beyond their due diligence in regards to shipping and handling arrangements.


All that being said, I think OP has been rather appropriate in trying to sort out the issue. I can understand the frustration with the case, because when you spend good money on a new product you expect it to be in excellent condition. I hope that in the end, he gets a shiny new case like he deserves.


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## protest (Oct 23, 2014)

^^

You probably can't see them, but the OP posted pictures showing that the case barely fit into the box. Another poster confirmed that that is the same way his guitar was packaged. 

Tom also accused the OP of being dishonest and extorting the manufacturer because he posted a poor public review in an attempt to get money back or something for free, which is total BS. He also stated that the manufacturer was taking care of it's customer. If he considers 4 months going by without a solution to a simple problem, and the company's word that they'll ship the case (which they already said they would do and didn't) taking care of its customer then I don't know what to tell him.

I said it before (and others did as well): I am not in the business of selling gear. I sell it so I can get money to spend on other gear. If something I ship get's busted then I'm the one that's SOL, not the buyer. That's why I'm always nervous as hell when I ship something.

It never occurred to me that I could just pass the buck onto the guy who bought it from me. I mean I guess I have no obligation to the poor schmuck who gave me his money and got a broken piece of gear in return. I really just need to start thinking like a custom shop. Life would be so much easier!


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## russmuller (Oct 23, 2014)

protest said:


> ^^
> 
> You probably can't see them, but the OP posted pictures showing that the case barely fit into the box. Another poster confirmed that that is the same way his guitar was packaged.
> 
> ...



Those are all fair points. Judging by your description if the pictures, it sounds like packing was inadequate. That aside, I think Tom was describing a hypothetical scenario based on the fears and frustrations of a luthier in a situation where responsibility for the damage was not apparent. I don't think he was accusing anyone in this thread of those things.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 23, 2014)

russmuller said:


> I don't think he was accusing anyone in this thread of those things.






Tom Drinkwater said:


> Leveraging your position by threatening to or making a bad public review on a product or service to get money back or free product from the manufacturer sounds a lot like EXTORTION. The only reason people go after the manufacturer isn't because the manufacturer is liable, they have the most to lose if bad reviews get out so they are the easiest way to get paid. Sorry but it's DISHONEST anyway you slice it.




To me at least, it sounds an awful like he was basically saying the OP was practicing extortion and being dishonest for mearly telling the truth on the situation.
At that, the OP never once said the guitar was an issue, but the customer service. After reading the OP and seeing the evidence, I'd say hes 100% in the right to question said customer service.


Again, I understand where he is comming from. Small shops have a tough time making ends meet, but if you cant do business properly, then dont do it. Being a small shop isnt a valid reason to avoid issues that large companies have to deal with. Perhapse thats why they are big companies in the end, because they treated their customer right and didnt pass the buck.


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## russmuller (Oct 23, 2014)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> To me at least, it sounds an awful like he was basically saying the OP was practicing extortion and being dishonest for mearly telling the truth on the situation.



Well if you look at the whole message that you quoted, you will see that Tom is quoting and responding to someone who uses a hypothetical situation about Best Buy.



Tom Drinkwater said:


> > What's the difference between you dropping your TV and the dude from Best Buy that's carrying it to your car dropping it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tom specifically started making reference to the comments of others in regards to their attitudes and expectations toward small businesses, and is in no way directly talking about the OP. If Best Buy dropped your new TV, would you complain to LG about it? Would you be justified in threatening LG that you're going to post negative reviews about their TV unless they fix Best Buy's mistake? I think Tom was making that statement to people who advocate threatening a guitar manufacturer with a bad review when the guitar they manufactured was excellent.

Also, Tom posted that before the pictures showing the packaging appeared.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 23, 2014)

russmuller said:


> Well if you look at the whole message that you quoted, you will see that Tom is quoting and responding to someone who uses a hypothetical situation about Best Buy.



I understand he was refering to a hypothetical. But in this case, it actually happened. The dude got yanked around on the case, and then posted a somewhat negative review. Which according to what Tom said, means he would consider the poster to be using the bad review as extortion and dishonesty. 
Thats how I read it anyway.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 23, 2014)

russmuller said:


> Also, Tom posted that before the pictures showing the packaging appeared.



Perhapse as a small shop owner, he should use better judgement and probably not involve himself in discussions like this. He has every right to interject, but the board members have every right to not like his policies.




Also, if best buy dropped and broke the tv, they would cover it. Hence, UPS should cover it. Which means skevy should deal with ups. Not the customer. If skevy cant get it resoved, they should consider it a valuable lesson learned on either how to package items to get covered in the event of damage, or find a new shipper to work with.

I feel for small shops that have to deal with this, but all business have learning lessons. I'm sure that some guy that started a new car wash down the street didnt know that the EPA wouldnt let him drain his run off into the street drains. So he deals with the consequences and learns from it. He probably has to factor the waste removal into the cost of the car wash usage. 

If its going to cost more for Skevy to ship the item(appropriatly) to get covered by the shippers insurance, then he needs to factor that into the cost. Because in this case, he is paying the cost in money, time, and reputation. The customer is paying the cost in time, frusteration, a bad experience, and a damaged item. Could have been avoided for no more than an extra 50 bucks i would bet.


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## russmuller (Oct 23, 2014)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> I understand he was refering to a hypothetical. But in this case, it actually happened. The dude got yanked around on the case, and then posted a somewhat negative review. Which according to what Tom said, means he would consider the poster to be using the bad review as extortion and dishonesty.
> Thats how I read it anyway.



I can understand how you'd read it that way, but there's a lot of interpretation and assumption taking you from what was written to that conclusion (something I may well be guilty of).

I draw a distinction (as I believe Tom also does) between this thread (which is really just asking for some advice on the situation) and the act of threatening the manufacture with the possibility of a negative review to intimidate them into taking responsibility for something that is (hypothetically) not their fault.

Regardless, I think that we understand each other fairly well at this point. I don't want to , but I appreciate our exchange.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 23, 2014)




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## russmuller (Oct 23, 2014)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Perhapse as a small shop owner, he should use better judgement and probably not involve himself in discussions like this. He has every right to interject, but the board members have every right to not like his policies.



You may be right about getting involved in these discussions. I can understand the good intention of chiming in, but sometimes a real can of worms gets opened up. I'd just like to point out that I don't recall Tom mentioning any of this is his policy, he's just making a claim about the moral obligations of a manufacturer when shipping damage occurs. I would hope that members who are interested in having OAF build them a guitar will look at his track record as a luthier instead of a philosophical statement.


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## Skervesen Guitars (Oct 24, 2014)

As a Skervesen Guitars company's owner I'm surprised you wrote already 6 pages about something that is agreed and will be fixed. 
For us it's simple: that damage is shipping company's fault. They have 30 days for reply to our claim, they refused it so I send them a note again - the answer was no again. So I informed that we will send you new Hiscox - which this time will be totally our cost! We didn't broke case but will send you FOR FREE another one. So are you "dissapointed by our customshop" as topic claims - only because you have to wait a bit more? I guess the case you have now still protects your guitar. All we wait now is delivery from Hiscox.

Greetings
Jarek


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## hikizume976 (Oct 24, 2014)

Skervesen Guitars said:


> As a Skervesen Guitars company's owner I'm surprised you wrote already 6 pages about something that is agreed and will be fixed.
> For us it's simple: that damage is shipping company's fault. They have 30 days for reply to our claim, they refused it so I send them a note again - the answer was no again. So I informed that we will send you new Hiscox - which this time will be totally our cost! We didn't broke case but will send you FOR FREE another one. So are you "dissapointed by our customshop" as topic claims - only because you have to wait a bit more? I guess the case you have now still protects your guitar. All we wait now is delivery from Hiscox.
> 
> Greetings
> Jarek



see, for me, it's even more simple:

Is it my fault, then? furthermore, as a customer, should I care whose fault is it? I didn't pay for a broken case, that's my concern.

Is the case protecting the guitar fine? Not the point. I didn't pay for a broken case, that's my concern.

You're sending a case? So I've heard, more than once. In the last email I wasn't even given a ballpark in terms of an ETA, I was just told "you'll get it when you'll get it". That's the issue, I don't just want to hear about getting the case, I want to actually get the case.

wait a bit more? I have waited, for four months!!!! and I am still waiting! The fact that you try to oversee this puzzles me.

So yeah, color me disappointed, because I am not used to waiting four months (and counting!). Never has happened to me in the past. 

Do you usually wait for more than four months after you pay for something, after being told you will get it time and time again?

I never expect you to underplay the situation.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 24, 2014)

russmuller said:


> *Jumping to conclusions?*
> You seem to be very adamant that the cause of OP's issue was improper packing from Skervesen, but I don't recall that being clearly established by any evidence in this thread so taking a stand on that point seems like attacking a straw man. (I admit that I may have overlooked it, also I'm at work and can't see any of the images in the thread, so I apologize if it's in plain sight and I'm wrong about this).



It's not a straw man, he said he would post pics and he did. When the OP stated up front there was damage to the case and that the carrier would not cover it after 2 months of arguing, it was highly likely it was due to packaging not meeting standards, otherwise in my few experiences over the years with stuff I've received that was busted up but had proper packing materials included, they WILL eventually pay up even if they drag their feet on it.  If you had read the whole thread before making your post, you would see that the OP did post proof, and his proof matches up with what I had guessed was the case when I made my initial statement, so again... not a straw man, I'm just fairly good at guessing what happened here. 



russmuller said:


> *Tom's statements:*
> I think what Tom is trying to say is that since Skervesen didn't make the case and was not responsible for the damage to the case, they are not under an ethical obligation to incur costs to replace it. Skervesen did not lie, cheat, or steal from the customer. When it's your own business, your own money, and someone wants you to fix something that wasn't your fault, it's hard for your first conclusion to be that you should be financially responsible for a resolution.
> 
> That is not to say that Tom thinks that it's a good practice or good customer service not to resolve the issue, nor does it suggest that Tom wouldn't bend over backwards to make his customers happy (as Hollowway shared).
> ...



What you're stating is trying to backpedal on behalf of Tom, his statements were quite clear so trying to extrapolate WAY into left field with long "what he REALLY meant was..." statements is quite unnecessary. We can read, his statement was rather concise so I'm not really sure why you're reaching so far trying to right the ship once it has sailed. So now I'm curious, are you a current or previous customer of OAF by any chance? 



7 Strings of Hate said:


> *Perhapse as a small shop owner, he should use better judgement and probably not involve himself in discussions like this.* He has every right to interject, but the board members have every right to not like his policies.
> 
> I feel for small shops that have to deal with this, but all business have learning lessons. I'm sure that some guy that started a new car wash down the street didnt know that the EPA wouldnt let him drain his run off into the street drains. So he deals with the consequences and learns from it. He probably has to factor the waste removal into the cost of the car wash usage.
> 
> If its going to cost more for Skevy to ship the item(appropriatly) to get covered by the shippers insurance, then he needs to factor that into the cost. Because in this case, he is paying the cost in money, time, and reputation. The customer is paying the cost in time, frusteration, a bad experience, and a damaged item. Could have been avoided for no more than an extra 50 bucks i would bet.



Yep, agreed 100% (I'm with Steve, I'm shocked that I've actually agreed with so many of 7SoH's posts in this thread!  ), I think more small builders need to realize the pros and cons of publicly posting on message boards and social media. It's great that they can interact directly with current customers and use it as (typically free) marketing space for future customers, but they have to realize this is a double-edged sword when they jump into debates like this and expose potential frames of mind or agreement/disagreement with policies on warranties, repairs, damage etc. They can do a LOT more damage to their reputation when they choose to enter these discussions, especially when they make the kinds of comments we've seen in this thread. Outside of russmuller's attempt to spin what he said into something else entirely, when you state repeatedly where you stand on a topic and it's something that can/will impact you or your brand negatively, be prepared to hear what other members think about it on a public forum. 



russmuller said:


> You may be right about getting involved in these discussions. I can understand the good intention of chiming in, but sometimes a real can of worms gets opened up. I'd just like to point out that I don't recall Tom mentioning any of this is his policy, he's just making a claim about the moral obligations of a manufacturer when shipping damage occurs. I would hope that members who are interested in having OAF build them a guitar will look at his track record as a luthier instead of a philosophical statement.



He didn't state it was his "policy", but the fact that this is happening to another company selling instruments and he's in the same line of business, it's not hard to extrapolate that how he feels the owner of the company needs to handle this situation would vastly differ from how HE would handle the same situation, right?  I highly doubt it would make sense for him to do that, so while you can say "focus on his track record as a luthier instead of a philosophical statement" all you want, his philosophical statement in this case is likely an accurate representation of how he would handle this situation which is something that many buyers of small luthier instruments SHOULD care about. 

I know I for one have the reasonable expectation that after pouring $2-4K into a custom guitar, the builder will take packing materials ensuring the safe passage of my instrument from his shop to my door into account when pricing out the guitar. I don't recall seeing any additional fees for "packaging costs" when I've gone with small luthiers, yet all of them to date have included proper packing on my guitars when they were shipped to me, and I've yet to have a shipping-related damage claim on a custom yet.  If they underpack and it gets damaged, it's not the shipping company's problem to cover it, it's the builder's fault for not following the outlined rules for insurance coverage and best practices for packing and shipping an instrument. 



Skervesen Guitars said:


> As a Skervesen Guitars company's owner I'm surprised you wrote already 6 pages about something that is agreed and will be fixed.
> For us it's simple: that damage is shipping company's fault. They have 30 days for reply to our claim, they refused it so I send them a note again - the answer was no again. So I informed that we will send you new Hiscox - which this time will be totally our cost! We didn't broke case but will send you FOR FREE another one. So are you "dissapointed by our customshop" as topic claims - only because you have to wait a bit more? I guess the case you have now still protects your guitar. All we wait now is delivery from Hiscox.
> 
> Greetings
> Jarek



Your statement is all well and good, but after the 60 days had passed and you were rejected at least TWICE by UPS for your claim on the package, why did 2 more months go by before you shipped him the new case?  I've seen a LOT of Skervesen NGD's in the last 2 months, so it would stand to reason that you DO have (or did) the cases available. Now you're waiting for more? I hope we don't see a bunch of other NGD's in the next few weeks/months without the OP receiving his case. I've seen a lot of issues like this with small guys where they tend to ignore the issue or push it back with random "delays" as to why it can't get fixed immediately, so I for one will be watching this thread intently as now it's clear Skervesen IS aware of the thread and knows all eyes are on them to finally make good on their claims of replacing the case as soon as possible.


In spite of the folks who dogpiled on you in the beginning, hikizume976 (perhaps unfairly, IMO, although posting pics in cases like this [no pun intended haha] is always a good thing if you want to avoid people giving you a hard time when it comes to speculation), I truly hope Skervesen takes care of you. It definitely seems fair to give them 60 days to work out the damage claim with UPS (well sorta... honestly having looked at the packaging I know personally they would lose that claim with UPS any day of the week, but if you wanted to try to be a nice guy and let them attempt the claim, fair enough... ) but after 120 days and no case? Nope, you're definitely not in the wrong bringing it up publicly. It gives Skervesen the chance to make things right publicly or simultaneously gives them the chance to blow it for all to see if they continue to handle this poorly. 

I haven't played a Skervesen so I wouldn't trash the guitars themselves without seeing/playing one, but I do value good customer service and when issues arise, the company damn well better step up and do the right thing.  Now that it's public and clear that they know about this thread, hopefully they stop dawdling and get the dude his case already, 4 months have gone by... enough is enough.


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## narad (Oct 24, 2014)

Oh my - I agree with Skervesen? What's the world coming too!

Seriously though - it's shit pack job but you're getting a new case. What's the rush when your current case is completely functional? ::sigh:: If the wait is too long did you even ask if you could be refunded the cost to purchase one at your leisure?? Publicly shaming a company when they're trying to work things out for you only makes it harder for customers to get the word out when a company actually is ignoring/mistreating them. Same thing happened here to Nick @ the Axe-Palace and it was just ridiculous.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 24, 2014)

narad said:


> Publicly shaming a company when they're trying to work things out for you only makes it harder for customers to get the word out when a company actually is ignoring/mistreating them. Same thing happened here to Nick @ the Axe-Palace and it was just ridiculous.



There is a big difference between "publicly shaming" a company and telling the truth about his experience.

If telling the truth is considered "publicly shaming" in this case, then that should be telling in itself.




Some of you guys are acting like it was a sure thing he was getting the case and just didnt want to wait. The reality is, the OP has no Idea if the case is ever actually going to come after 4 months. Its not a huge deal. Skevys rep isnt destroyed or anything. They just need to be a little more up front with whats actually going on in situations like this and try to hustle to fix it.


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## Skervesen Guitars (Oct 24, 2014)

hikizume976 - that goes into strange direction. I admit that I don't understand making it all so bad. You didn't pay for broken case but we didn't send broken one either. I don't see a reason to pay for someone's fault instantly once damage is reported. We must make a claim first. Once we receive damaged delivery then in real life we have to fight with shipping company, not our supplier. And we don't receive anything from suppliers again for free then.
If I have now just one case I'd send you back days ago. This is custom production and we order only as much cases as we need. Count correspondence with UPS and delayed delivery time and we have 4 months now.
We will send you next case for free the day we receive delivery (Hiscox confirmed on first days of Nov.).


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## HighGain510 (Oct 24, 2014)

narad said:


> Oh my - I agree with Skervesen? What's the world coming too!
> 
> Seriously though - it's shit pack job but you're getting a new case. What's the rush when your current case is completely functional? ::sigh:: If the wait is too long did you even ask if you could be refunded the cost to purchase one at your leisure?? Publicly shaming a company when they're trying to work things out for you only makes it harder for customers to get the word out when a company actually is ignoring/mistreating them. Same thing happened here to Nick @ the Axe-Palace and it was just ridiculous.



When it's been 4 months to send out a replacement case, you don't think the guy's been strung along a bit? How many Skervesen NGD's have popped up since then?  It's not public shaming, he's bringing to light the fact that they continue to tell him he'll get one, but they haven't shipped him one because of excuses. The issue is a valid complaint and 4 months to get a new case shipped seems a bit excessive. Is his current case functional despite having a crack in it? Probably. Is that what he paid for or what he deserves to get stuck with? Not at all.  They're lucky the case was the only thing that got damaged shipping the way they did.  

You can't honestly tell me you'd be thrilled if you were in the guy's position? Always easy to poke at others and say they're being ridiculous, but I tried putting myself in his shoes and that's something that would piss me off as well.  I've been yanked around by small builders before due to ridiculous/false "delays" and it's rather frustrating, so any time I see evidence of something being given the same BS runaround, I totally empathize. I still see some folks get upset about stuff that IS ridiculous to get upset about (when you pay $1K for a "custom small luthier build" from some rando-guy and it turns out crummy, your expectations should probably have been managed a bit better... ) but I really don't think that's the case here. Clearly Skervesen is dragging their feet because either they can't/don't want to eat the expense of replacing the case and they're pushing it out as far as they can so either the buyer gets tired and gives up or they begrudging send him another one down the road when they feel like it.



Skervesen Guitars said:


> hikizume976 - that goes into strange direction. I admit that I don't understand making it all so bad. You didn't pay for broken case but we didn't send broken one either. I don't see a reason to pay for someone's fault instantly once damage is reported. We must make a claim first. Once we receive damaged delivery then in real life we have to fight with shipping company, not our supplier. And we don't receive anything from suppliers again for free then.
> If I have now just one case I'd send you back days ago. This is custom production and we order only as much cases as we need. Count correspondence with UPS and delayed delivery time and we have 4 months now.
> We will send you next case for free the day we receive delivery (Hiscox confirmed on first days of Nov.).



Might I suggest you invest in some of this for future shipments?


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## Skervesen Guitars (Oct 24, 2014)

Thanks for suggestions but Hiscox case withstands 500kgs of pressure so if anything broken it then it will not help too.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 24, 2014)

Skervesen Guitars said:


> Thanks for suggestions but Hiscox case withstands 500kgs of pressure so if anything broken it then it will not help too.



*sigh*.... Clearly this experience has taught you nothing.  I'm done.  

Good luck getting the new case hikizume976, hopefully they make good on their promise this time.


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## Gothic Headhunter (Oct 24, 2014)

Skervesen Guitars said:


> Thanks for suggestions but Hiscox case withstands 500kgs of pressure so if anything broken it then it will not help too.



If that is true (500kgs=1,100lbs) then what the hell broke this thing? Sounds like it would take a bit more than just dropping it. 

To OP, stop complaining. Go out and buy another case until you get the replacement from Skervesen. Then you can decide which one you like best and just sell the other one. Then you'd end up with a good case and a few bucks.


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## protest (Oct 24, 2014)

Skervesen Guitars said:


> As a Skervesen Guitars company's owner I'm surprised you wrote already 6 pages about something that is agreed and will be fixed.
> For us it's simple: that damage is shipping company's fault. They have 30 days for reply to our claim, they refused it so I send them a note again - the answer was no again. So I informed that we will send you new Hiscox - which this time will be totally our cost! We didn't broke case but will send you FOR FREE another one. So are you "dissapointed by our customshop" as topic claims - only because you have to wait a bit more? I guess the case you have now still protects your guitar. All we wait now is delivery from Hiscox.
> 
> Greetings
> Jarek



For future reference, this is what your post should have said:

Javier,

We're sorry for how long this issue has taken to resolve. We should have offered you a refund for the price of your case once our initial claim with UPS was denied. It also appears that we somehow managed botch our last order of cases by not adding an extra case for you. That has caused a further delay, and for that I personally apologize. That said I will be handling this issue myself now, and I will be ordering new cases on ___ and they should arrive ____ days after that. I will send you a confirmation once I have ordered them, and then another notice along with tracking info once I ship the case to you. 

Again, I'm sorry for how long it has taken to resolve this matter, but I'm also very excited to see that the guitar made it fine and that you love it!

Sincerely,
Your Name Here


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## protest (Oct 24, 2014)

HighGain510 said:


> It's great that they can interact directly with current customers and use it as (typically free) marketing space for future customers, but they have to realize this is *a double-edged sword*...



You picked the words right from my mind lol

(See the above post)



7 Strings of Hate said:


> There is a big difference between "publicly shaming" a company and telling the truth about his experience.
> 
> If telling the truth is considered "publicly shaming" in this case, then that should be telling in itself.
> 
> Some of you guys are acting like it was a sure thing he was getting the case and just didnt want to wait. The reality is, the OP has no Idea if the case is ever actually going to come after 4 months. Its not a huge deal. Skevys rep isnt destroyed or anything. They just need to be a little more up front with whats actually going on in situations like this and try to hustle to fix it.



This. He didn't really attack the company (he said he liked the guitar), but the idea that he's somehow in the wrong for posting this is total BS. It is the point of forums like this. Small companies get all this free publicity, marketing, and praise that they do on here that allows them to grow their business *way *quicker for *way *cheaper than it otherwise would. They also need to be able to take the bumps that come along with an open forum. 

Believe me when I say this, places like this are a gold mine. So with companies knowing that, they should be aware of how they are going to need to have awesome customer service. Their customers are also their marketing team, and these forums are their market research groups. Some companies would probably actually kill people if it meant they could get rid of their marketing and advertising costs lol. I haven't looked too deeply into it, but one guy that seems to completely get this is Rob Chapman, and he's probably going to make a lot of money because of it.


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## narad (Oct 24, 2014)

HighGain510 said:


> When it's been 4 months to send out a replacement case, you don't think the guy's been strung along a bit? How many Skervesen NGD's have popped up since then?  It's not public shaming, he's bringing to light the fact that they continue to tell him he'll get one, but they haven't shipped him one because of excuses. The issue is a valid complaint and 4 months to get a new case shipped seems a bit excessive. Is his current case functional despite having a crack in it? Probably. Is that what he paid for or what he deserves to get stuck with? Not at all.



Basically we're talking about an insurance claim + a 6 week string along. Again, for someone so eager, has he actually suggested an alternative? "Skervesen, can you drop ship one case from Hiscox directly to my house?" "Skervesen, can you reimburse me the money for the case so that I can buy it myself?" And they reply the day before the post saying they're sorting it out in the next batch...



HighGain510 said:


> They're lucky the case was the only thing that got damaged shipping the way they did.



True that. I've talked with other builders who feel the same way - that any action that could damage an instrument in a poorly packaged box could damage it with a couple inches of bubble wrap. That's not my take on it, but I have heard from other guys that ship dozens of guitars, some reputable builders, some less so.



HighGain510 said:


> Clearly Skervesen is dragging their feet because either they can't/don't want to eat the expense of replacing the case and they're pushing it out as far as they can so either the buyer gets tired and gives up or they begrudging send him another one down the road when they feel like it.



I just don't see it that way -- it's been about 6 weeks since they said it would be accounted for in the next batch of cases, and they botched it up once. Why would the buyer give up on writing one email a month? That just sounds like a weird logic leap to presume that's the plan.

And if the guy was out a case and unable to bring his guitar places, fine, that would suck and dealing it immediately is necessary. That's not the ...case... -- the delivery of the case isn't going to change anything besides concluding the transaction with him getting exactly what he paid for. And more, because he'll have an extra fully functional case. I don't really have any sympathies.


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## canuck brian (Oct 24, 2014)

protest said:


> You picked the words right from my mind lol
> 
> (See the above post)
> 
> ...



You're 100% correct on these forums and Facebook being excellent marketing tools. I don't advertise - i just post pictures on mg.org, ss.org and facebook and that has actually kept me practically overflowing with customer requests. For me, it also increases the attention to detail because the niche market that I cater to usually has a high-resolution camera waiting for their product to show up. If anything, it's made me a better builder as I know the internet pitchforks will come out instantly if I do something wrong and don't correct the situation.

Anyways - to the original topic.

The customer received a product that was damaged in shipping and the product was the case. He had paid for the case and it's pretty much common sense that the shipper/seller would replace the damaged product. The fact that the case was used to ship a guitar is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT and you guys telling the dude to suck it up should shut up and never be placed in charge of running any business.

If i ordered a case from Musicians Friend and it showed up damaged, I'd expect MF to replace the product at no cost to me. That's business and that's how it's done. PERIOD. The onus to replace a damaged product does not change suddenly because the damaged product was used to protect something else.


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## protest (Oct 24, 2014)

narad said:


> the delivery of the case isn't going to change anything besides *concluding the transaction with him getting exactly what he paid for*.





So in other words it's actually going to change everything because his transaction is finally complete. I honestly can't comprehend this idea that he needs to quit his bitching or get over it.

Who filed the claim with UPS? The builder. They are the ones that wait for their money from UPS, not the customer. Their problem with UPS is exactly that, *their problem.* If they wanted to wait the first 30 days, fine that's at least understandable. But then another month on top of that waiting for a claim that was already denied? And then 2 more months on top of that during which they botched a delivery they said they were going to make? They never offered him a refund. He doesn't need to ask, they need to offer. That's how it works when you run a business. I'm seriously contemplating a career change to small custom shop business consultant.

I am not a confrontational person at all. I'm going on the 1 year anniversary of my pledge for the Fryette GP/DI, and I haven't complained to them once. Reason being they have given updates, and I'm understanding to the fact they are trying to bring a new product to market. This situation is nothing like that. It's a simple, easy fix that has been dragged out over 4 months, and then the builder comes in with "We're giving you a free case and you're disappointed??"

Not to mention their response to Matt telling them they need to pack better is "these cases can handle x amount of pressure." Uh who cares? They obviously don't care about *winning* any claims they present to UPS otherwise they'd spend the extra $50 to ship their $3000+ guitars. What happens when a forklift breaks one of their guitars, and they can't get reimbursed because they didn't package it right? It won't be just a case then, and are they still going to say "well it wasn't our fault the UPS guy is dumb?"


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## Cloudy (Oct 24, 2014)

canuck brian said:


> If i ordered a case from Musicians Friend and it showed up damaged, I'd expect MF to replace the product at no cost to me. That's business and that's how it's done. PERIOD. The onus to replace a damaged product does not change suddenly because the damaged product was used to protect something else.





As you paid for the guitar, you also paid for the case. Its still a product Skervesen sold you. Its extremely weak how the situation played out, hopefully the new case gets to you.


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## narad (Oct 24, 2014)

protest said:


> So in other words it's actually going to change everything because his transaction is finally complete. I honestly can't comprehend this idea that he needs to quit his bitching or get over it.



You're quoting me but you formatted it as if Skervesen said it, which is obviously a really bad thing to do.


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## protest (Oct 24, 2014)

^^ 
Not sure how that happened!

EDIT: Multi quote thing was on, and I deleted everything up until the first user name, which was the wrong one.


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## TeeWX (Oct 24, 2014)

protest said:


> ^^
> Not sure how that happened!
> 
> EDIT: Multi quote thing was on, and I deleted everything up until the first user name, which was the wrong one.



I was confused. But now I am unconfused.


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## RV350ALSCYTHE (Oct 24, 2014)

Skervesen Guitars said:


> Thanks for suggestions but Hiscox case withstands 500kgs of pressure so if anything broken it then it will not help too.



A couple inches of bubble wrap would have helped tremendously 

The guitar would have been properly packed (meeting or exceeding UPS policy) and the fault would be on UPS.

The point (of the extra packing) isn't to protect the guitar with measly bubble wrap, it's to protect your ass when UPS damages the parcel in transit.
No amount of protection will prevent damage from a forklift, but that extra couple inches of padding worth ~$20 bucks would have saved a lot of stress for both parties.


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## russmuller (Oct 24, 2014)

HighGain510 said:


> It's not a straw man, he said he would post pics and he did. When the OP stated up front there was damage to the case and that the carrier would not cover it after 2 months of arguing, it was highly likely it was due to packaging not meeting standards, otherwise in my few experiences over the years with stuff I've received that was busted up but had proper packing materials included, they WILL eventually pay up even if they drag their feet on it.  If you had read the whole thread before making your post, you would see that the OP did post proof, and his proof matches up with what I had guessed was the case when I made my initial statement, so again... not a straw man, I'm just fairly good at guessing what happened here.



If you read my messages, I explain that pics were not visible in the thread for me which is why I qualified those statements. 7SOH set me straight on that part. 



HighGain510 said:


> What you're stating is trying to backpedal on behalf of Tom, his statements were quite clear so trying to extrapolate WAY into left field with long "what he REALLY meant was..." statements is quite unnecessary. We can read, his statement was rather concise so I'm not really sure why you're reaching so far trying to right the ship once it has sailed. So now I'm curious, are you a current or previous customer of OAF by any chance?



You're right that I do sound like an apologist for Tom, but that's because I happen to completely disagree with your assessment of his attitude and point. I am in no way affiliated with OAF or Tom. I've never played/purchased/ordered any of his guitars, but as a business student and a studying luthier, I can sympathize with the small business owner's perspective on issues like this.



HighGain510 said:


> He didn't state it was his "policy", but the fact that this is happening to another company selling instruments and he's in the same line of business, it's not hard to extrapolate that how he feels the owner of the company needs to handle this situation would vastly differ from how HE would handle the same situation, right?



In the same message you're saying that what he said is plain and concise and I'm out in left field extrapolating what he really said. Then here you admit you're extrapolating a philosophical point about moral responsibility from this hypothetical situation (which is not talking about his business or how he operates) to draw conclusions about how Tom operates OAF. All of that in spite of testimony from a customer elsewhere in this thread about the exemplary service Tom provided. THAT is what I mean by judging his track record as a luthier instead of this hypothetical argument.


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## Pikka Bird (Oct 24, 2014)

protest said:


> Not to mention their response to Matt telling them they need to pack better is "these cases can handle x amount of pressure." Uh who cares? They obviously don't care about *winning* any claims they present to UPS otherwise they'd spend the extra $50 to ship their $3000+ guitars. What happens when a forklift breaks one of their guitars, and they can't get reimbursed because they didn't package it right? It won't be just a case then, and are they still going to say "well it wasn't our fault the UPS guy is dumb?"



This is true. In a fair world it shouldn't be, but in this world it is. UPS (and other courier services) have their terms and conditions, and while they are often pretty far out there you do agree to them when you use their company so they do technically have the right to deny your claim. And that's even if the damage is clearly caused by something which the proper packaging wouldn't have done jack squat to prevent (such as a forklift prong straight through the whole thing). It's an easy out for the shipping company and that's the only reason it's worded the way it is.


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## protest (Oct 24, 2014)

Pikka Bird said:


> This is true. In a fair world it shouldn't be, but in this world it is. UPS (and other courier services) have their terms and conditions, and while they are often pretty far out there you do agree to them when you use their company so they do technically have the right to deny your claim. And that's even if the damage is clearly caused by something which the proper packaging wouldn't have done jack squat to prevent (such as a forklift prong straight through the whole thing). It's an easy out for the shipping company and that's the only reason it's worded the way it is.



You're exactly right. It's not the builders fault that the case broke, it wouldn't be their fault if a fork lift broke a guitar. The point is if you're in the business of shipping expensive stuff you just pack it to the guidelines of the shipping company, no matter if it actually helps or not. What you're trying to do is to not let them be able to worm their way out of their own screw up.


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## wiretap (Oct 24, 2014)

The real guilty party here, is the crappy case manufacturer.


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## canuck brian (Oct 24, 2014)

wiretap said:


> The real guilty party here, is the crappy case manufacturer.



Hiscox cases are solid.


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## tedtan (Oct 24, 2014)

narad said:


> Basically we're talking about an insurance claim + a 6 week string along. Again, for someone so eager, has he actually suggested an alternative? "Skervesen, can you drop ship one case from Hiscox directly to my house?" "Skervesen, can you reimburse me the money for the case so that I can buy it myself?" And they reply the day before the post saying they're sorting it out in the next batch...



But how many times have they claimed to get it sorted out in the next batch, yet failed to do so? The onus is on Skervy, not the OP, to get this situation corrected.




narad said:


> True that. I've talked with other builders who feel the same way - that any action that could damage an instrument in a poorly packaged box could damage it with a couple inches of bubble wrap. That's not my take on it, but I have heard from other guys that ship dozens of guitars, some reputable builders, some less so.



I can respect that what these guys say is most likely true. But as others have mentioned, the point of the bubble wrap is not to further protect the guitar, it's to protect the shipper's back side in those situations where a claim needs to be filed with the shipping company. If the shipper failed to take the appropriate steps in this area, that is blatantly the shipper's fault.


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## tedtan (Oct 24, 2014)

russmuller said:


> but as a business student and a studying luthier, I can sympathize with the small business owner's perspective on issues like this.



Sympathizing with other's feelings is fine.

But from one who has been involved in growing a small business into a pretty decent sized company, I can state categorically that the way to ensure your own best interests is to take care of your customers. In a situation like this, you suck it up and make your customer happy. That's how you earn repeat business from that customer. That's how you get him to refer all of his friends and fellow forum members to you when they are in the market for a new guitar (or whatever). That's how you take care of your business as well as the customer.

Failing to do that results in that customer buying from someone else next time and telling all of his friends and fellow forum members to do the same. The customer is not always right, but keeping him happy is always in your best interest unless you are losing significant money in the deal (and that includes the overall dealings with that customer, not just the one time transaction in question).


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## narad (Oct 24, 2014)

tedtan said:


> But how many times have they claimed to get it sorted out in the next batch, yet failed to do so? The onus is on Skervy, not the OP, to get this situation corrected.



Just once, which is why I'm confused at it being spun like it's been a huge lengthy run around. 



tedtan said:


> I can respect that what these guys say is most likely true. But as others have mentioned, the point of the bubble wrap is not to further protect the guitar, it's to protect the shipper's back side in those situations where a claim needs to be filed with the shipping company. If the shipper failed to take the appropriate steps in this area, that is blatantly the shipper's fault.



It is totally the shipper's fault, but the shipper is fully compensating the buyer, so what's the issue? From my perspective it makes more sense to properly pack and file the claim, that's how I would prefer to run a business, but I know these claims can be troublesome even when you pack it correctly. The only way I've seen where you get to avoid a whole lot of hassle on the claim is when you get the shipping company to do the packing, and anyone who has pursued this can attest to it being far from ideal with the kinds of markups they tend to charge. 

So to that end I'm surprised by all the people who are playing so much "what if"... a forklift destroys the guitar ... or a guitar goes missing, etc., and then Skervesen says, "tough luck, customer" -- namely because these things _haven't_ happened, Skervesen's reaction to such situations is entirely unknown, and the speculation is completely unfounded. It is, of course, easier to criticize a company's business practices when you're completely fabricating their reaction to some hypothetical future situation.

Really I'm much more offended by the Chiroptera headstock design than by Skervesen's behavior here, which, had they not botched up shipping the case from the first replacement batch, would have been exactly what I expect from good customer service in this scenario.


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## tedtan (Oct 24, 2014)

narad said:


> Just once, which is why I'm confused at it being spun like it's been a huge lengthy run around.



Yes, but that's after having to wait for the claim to be filed and refused, then filed and refused a second time. It would have cost Skervy around $50 to just ship the case out to the customer from the get go in order to keep him happy and then deal with the claim with the courier as a separate issue entirely. And if $50 is putting their business in jeopardy, they need to rethink their business model.




narad said:


> Really I'm much more offended by the Chiroptera headstock design than by Skervesen's behavior here, which, had they not botched up shipping the case from the first replacement batch, would have been exactly what I expect from good customer service in this scenario.



This is true, although I would say they should have shipped the replacement case from the beginning, not after farting around in claims hell for two months.

Research has shown that a business that makes a mistake and then handles it _correctly_ will generate MORE loyalty than if they hadn't screwed up in the first place, whereas a business that makes a mistake and fails to address it properly will engender significantly more resentment and ill will (and lost business). That's why it's so important to take care of customers so long as what they want is realistic.


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## protest (Oct 24, 2014)

narad said:


> It is totally the shipper's fault, but t*he shipper is fully compensating the buyer, so what's the issue?* From my perspective it makes more sense to properly pack and file the claim, that's how I would prefer to run a business, but I know these claims can be troublesome even when you pack it correctly. The only way I've seen where you get to avoid a whole lot of hassle on the claim is when you get the shipping company to do the packing, and anyone who has pursued this can attest to it being far from ideal with the kinds of markups they tend to charge.
> 
> So to that end I'm surprised by all the people who are playing so much *"what if"... a forklift destroys the guitar ... or a guitar goes missing, etc., and then Skervesen says, "tough luck, customer" -- namely because these things haven't happened,* Skervesen's reaction to such situations is entirely unknown, and the speculation is completely unfounded. It is, of course, easier to criticize a company's business practices when you're completely fabricating their reaction to some hypothetical future situation.
> 
> Really I'm much more offended by the Chiroptera headstock design than by Skervesen's behavior here, which, had they not botched up shipping the case from the first replacement batch, would have been exactly what I expect from good customer service in this scenario.



It's ok to say that the buyer is being fully compensated when that hasn't happened yet, but not okay to speculate what the company would do if something worse had happened? Their own response showed they have no interest in packaging their products to the standards of their carrier, which means they will not win any claims. They have already publicly placed the blame with the carrier, and asked their customer why he's complaining since he's getting something for free (which he's not fyi, he's getting what he paid you for Skervesen). To me they have brought this speculation on themselves, something that again could have been avoided with a response like the one that took me all of 2 minutes to type.

This is the problem for companies that use these sites as a way to bring in business. They screwed up by letting a non issue become an issue, and now they have this thread. Javier will get his case because this thread exists. He may have gotten it otherwise, but who knows when? He'll definitely be getting soon now. 

Skervesen also had the power to change the course of this thread with a proper post, but they didn't handle that or any follow up comments properly.



tedtan said:


> Research has shown that a business that makes a mistake and then handles it _correctly_ will generate MORE loyalty than if they hadn't screwed up in the first place, whereas a business that makes a mistake and fails to address it properly will engender significantly more resentment and ill will (and lost business). That's why it's so important to take care of customers so long as what they want is realistic.



This is 100% true. And if the guy had come on here with a ridiculous thread about wanting stuff for free, or any other unrealistic demands we would have told him to get lost.


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## russmuller (Oct 24, 2014)

tedtan said:


> Sympathizing with other's feelings is fine.
> 
> But from one who has been involved in growing a small business into a pretty decent sized company, I can state categorically that the way to ensure your own best interests is to take care of your customers. In a situation like this, you suck it up and make your customer happy.
> 
> ...



I agree with you 100%. That's not to say that it's _fair_ to the business; it's simply the best way to do business. Consumers typically don't care about what's fair outside the narrow view of "I spent my money, I want my goods." If you want happy customers, you just have to deal with it.


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## Hollowway (Oct 24, 2014)

I'm surprised how vitriolic this particular group is getting over a well respected luthier not shipping a case out in time. We seem to give passes to luthiers for just about every sort of violation, and then here everyone is saying Skervesen, and anyone who doesn't think they're the devil incarnate, is making a cardinal sin. Maybe I'm jaded, but to me this isn't a big deal. On October 20 Skervesen admitted they dropped the ball on ordering a new case. So that's basically their one mistake. In other words, most people on here agree that a claim should be opened with the shipper and if the shipper doesn't pay Skervesen should. I personally think the OP is overreacting given that Skervesen said they'd take care of it and admitted their fault. So all this reaction is over a delay and an admitted mistake. Do dishonesty, no trying to deny responsibility Is that the standards we're holding luthiers to now? Seems to me Skervesen has excellent customer service, but made a mistake in getting a new guitar to this guy in a timely fashion. It just seems weird we're lynching them for this.  I'll be curious to see if we hold other luthiers to this standard going forward.


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## fps (Oct 24, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> I'm surprised how vitriolic this particular group is getting over a well respected luthier not shipping a case out in time. We seem to give passes to luthiers for just about every sort of violation, and then here everyone is saying Skervesen, and anyone who doesn't think they're the devil incarnate, is making a cardinal sin. Maybe I'm jaded, but to me this isn't a big deal. On October 20 Skervesen admitted they dropped the ball on ordering a new case. So that's basically their one mistake. In other words, most people on here agree that a claim should be opened with the shipper and if the shipper doesn't pay Skervesen should. I personally think the OP is overreacting given that Skervesen said they'd take care of it and admitted their fault. So all this reaction is over a delay and an admitted mistake. Do dishonesty, no trying to deny responsibility Is that the standards we're holding luthiers to now? Seems to me Skervesen has excellent customer service, but made a mistake in getting a new guitar to this guy in a timely fashion. It just seems weird we're lynching them for this.  I'll be curious to see if we hold other luthiers to this standard going forward.



People on here like to make as big a deal as possible of very small things. Keeps them entertained I guess. It sucks for OP but it is, as you say, just one issue, a genuine mistake that isn't going to do any harm in the long run, and they're fixing it.


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## MetalDaze (Oct 24, 2014)

I have noticed a general disconnect in couriers' requirements for packing and what large companies actually do.

For example, I have purchased several ESP Standards and Jackson USA guitars over the last few years and these guys basically put the case in a cardboard box with minimal extra packing (usually just on the ends). These were brand new guitars in official manufacturer boxes, which would obviously fail the UPS/FedEx warranty claim test.

In contrast, Carvin is one company that actually did a better job here. They didn't wrap the case in 2 inches of bubble wrap, but rather used Styrofoam brackets on the ends that allowed the case to float in the middle of the box with several inches around it.


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## Drew (Oct 24, 2014)

7 Dying Trees said:


> I must add, i agree that you should get what you paid for.
> 
> However, you must have been lucky with your cases, the amount of cases that have had locks ripped off, have had corners crushed, splits, and other damage I've had from touring/flying/giging locally is insane. I'll only fly in flightcases now, same with gigging, main guitars go in heavy ass flight cases.



Man, no arguments to any of this, but you guys should see what my cases look like on a guitar I've owned for a couple years, and I don't even gig.  This isn't a big issue - I'd be happy if they kicked me back a couple bucks for a case that got damaged in shipping, but be happy that the guitar arrived in one piece.

Now, I'm wondering how the hell this got to more than 170 posts.


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## patsanger (Oct 24, 2014)

I think the fundamental issue here is this: If you order something and it arrives broken, the seller replaces it or refunds for it immediately.

You don't wait for them to handle insurance claims etc. They handle this immediately and deal with the insurance on their side. 

And if they have you ship the case back, they deal with the manufacturer or sell it for cheap to recoup something if everything fails.

This is not the buyer's fault. You paid for something and you did not get it. The way a seller steps up and handles an issue is how you get repeat customers and goodwill.

Imagine what this thread would be like if it had started with "I got this case and Skerv replaced it asap with no problems. This is cool, ordering another!..."


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## jrstinkfish (Oct 24, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> In other words, most people on here agree that a claim should be opened with the shipper and if the shipper doesn't pay Skervesen should.


Skervesen should've sent out a new case immediately. Waiting for the shipper to pay for the case is between Skervsen and the shipper, the buyer should not be involved in that (the buyer did not take out insurance on the package, Skervsen did). Skervsen was going to have to send a new case anyway, why wait two months to hear from the shipping company?

This thread has been blown a little out of proportion, but I think it's good for sellers to see that customers should not be involved in disputes between seller and shipper. You fix the issue and then deal with the shipping company, the customer should only be involved if you want the busted item sent back.


*Edit: D'oh, patsanger beat me to it!*


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## protest (Oct 24, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> I'm surprised how vitriolic this particular group is getting over a well respected luthier not shipping a case out in time. We seem to give passes to luthiers for just about every sort of violation, and then here everyone is saying Skervesen, and anyone who doesn't think they're the devil incarnate, is making a cardinal sin. Maybe I'm jaded, but to me this isn't a big deal. On October 20 Skervesen admitted they dropped the ball on ordering a new case. So that's basically their one mistake. In other words, most people on here agree that a claim should be opened with the shipper and if the shipper doesn't pay Skervesen should. I personally think the OP is overreacting given that Skervesen said they'd take care of it and admitted their fault. So all this reaction is over a delay and an admitted mistake. Do dishonesty, no trying to deny responsibility Is that the standards we're holding luthiers to now? Seems to me Skervesen has excellent customer service, but made a mistake in getting a new guitar to this guy in a timely fashion. It just seems weird we're lynching them for this.  I'll be curious to see if we hold other luthiers to this standard going forward.



To be fair I think most of the vitriol has come from the back and forth between the posters, and not so much aimed at Skervesen. Everyone here, OP included, knows this isn't a huge deal. For me personally I was surprised by how long it was taking for them to take care of a simple problem, but what I really couldn't wrap my head around was posters who were more or less blasting the OP.

To me though Skervesen really dropped the ball with their posts in this thread. Their first post was more or less "we didn't do anything but we're still giving you something for free, and yet you're still complaining" That's not how you handle this situation. The whole mood of the thread changes with a proper response, but they wound up opening themselves up for future hypothetical questioning with the way they posted in the thread. I'm not saying they damaged their rep or anything, but they had a great chance to come out looking awesome in a complaint thread, and they mucked it up. Hopefully they do learn from this experience though, it's a valuable lesson.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 24, 2014)

narad said:


> I just don't see it that way -- it's been about 6 weeks since they said it would be accounted for in the next batch of cases, and they botched it up once. Why would the buyer give up on writing one email a month? That just sounds like a weird logic leap to presume that's the plan.
> 
> And if the guy was out a case and unable to bring his guitar places, fine, that would suck and dealing it immediately is necessary. That's not the ...case... -- the delivery of the case isn't going to change anything besides concluding the transaction with him getting exactly what he paid for. And more, because he'll have an extra fully functional case. I don't really have any sympathies.



Its been 4 months. Anyone with a brain would have seen the packing pictures and know it was a waste of 30 days to file a claim with UPS because they were not going to cover it. Its a bummer for Skevy, but its all part of the learning process for a business. If he didnt fix the matter, he should have been uber communative about how and when the issue was going to get resolved.,

And as for the 2nd paragraph. Who the hell cares where he had to go with his guitar. Its the principal that he ordered something from a business and that business was paid to solve his problem. He needed a guitar AND a case. Something went wrong? No prob, thats why we have insurance. But it didnt apply here because Skevy is not shipping their guitars properly to be covered by insurance.
Typically, where I come from at least, if you go to a restaurant and they screw up your food, you'll get the meal comp'ed at the least. Just a little gesture of saying sorry for the mess up. When your buying a 2k+ custom, a $100 case should have just been comp'ed. By UPS. But Skevy didnt do what they were supposed to and now its on THEM to do the comp'ing. Getting to keep the broken case should have been a small gesture of good faith.


In actuality, Skevy should have just messaged back the OP upon finding insurance wasnt going to cover it and say something to the effect of "since it doesnt make sense to spend as much money shipping a case to you as the case itself cost, we are just going to refund your money for the case and we are sorry for the inconvience".





Hollowway said:


> I'm surprised how vitriolic this particular group is getting over a well respected luthier not shipping a case out in time.





*I also want to note, that many of us in here sound like we are acting like Skevy is a horrible shitty company for this incident. When the truth of the matter is, we are going on and on about this because there are alot of people in here who are just plain wrong about how business is supposed to function. IMO, this isnt a big deal for Skevy. Not nearly as big of a deal as the fact that many of you are perfectly fine with getting screwed over in situations where the customer is right.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 24, 2014)

Drew said:


> Now, I'm wondering how the hell this got to more than 170 posts.



Its because alot of us in here are watching the slow errosion of how business is supposed to work in this era of the internet.


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## tedtan (Oct 24, 2014)

russmuller said:


> I agree with you 100%. That's not to say that it's _fair_ to the business; it's simply the best way to do business. Consumers typically don't care about what's fair outside the narrow view of "I spent my money, I want my goods." If you want happy customers, you just have to deal with it.



Why isn't it fair?

The buyer entered into a contract with the seller and paid $XXXX for a guitar and case and the seller agreed to supply the guitar and case for that price. Once the buyer pays the money, the seller is now obligated to deliver the guitar and case. In the case of a new guitar and case, those items should be delivered to the buyer in new, unused, undamaged condition. I think w can all agree on that.

Here's the part that many are missing: as part of the obligation to deliver the new guitar and case to the buyer, the seller entered into an entirely separate contract with a third party courier services to deliver the guitar so that the seller didn't have to deliver the items in person. This contract does not involve the buyer in the slightest - it is between the seller and the courier service. There might have also been an insurance contract as well, in which case it would be between the seller and the courier service/insurance company. Not only that, but the seller chose to pack the item in such a way that the packing failed to meet the courier's requirements.

Given that, how is it unfair for the seller to be responsible for his own actions (1. failing to pack the guitar properly, 2. entering into a contract with the courier to ship the instrument, and 3. failing to deliver the case in like new condition)? I just don't see how this can be considered unfair. Even if you look at it as if the courier should be responsible for their actions (and I think we can agree that they should be), the packing still failed to meet their requirements, which the seller agreed to in using their services, so they still have an out.


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## tedtan (Oct 24, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> I'll be curious to see if we hold other luthiers to this standard going forward.



I can speak only for myself, but I would apply the same standards to any business with whom I spend my money.

And note that I don't have anything against Skervesen; I just understand how _proper_ business is conducted. I realize that a lot of smaller businesses where the owners are doers rather than trained managers probably don't know as much about business as I do because their focus is on doing what they do (building guitars in this case). So hopefully they can learn about the proper way to take care of a customer from this thread without it being too expensive a lesson (and I mean all luthiers and small business owners reading this thread, not just Skervy).

What surprises me is how readily people on SSO accept sub par customer service and custom guitars that aren't up to snuff. Folks on TGP, as one example, wouldn't accept a lot of people here do. I guess its the age difference since people here tend to be younger and less experienced than people over there.


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## Hollowway (Oct 24, 2014)

tedtan said:


> What surprises me is how readily people on SSO accept sub par customer service and custom guitars that aren't up to snuff.



Amen to that. When I first started buying high end production and customs I was shocked how crappy the customer service was and how rife with corruption many of them are. I'm jaded, but honestly, at this point if I even get a guitar in a reasonable amount of time from a luthier I'm happy. The one thing the TGP guys DO accept is ridiculously long build times. It's just weird how few luthiers can get remotely close to a quoted build time. It would be interesting for someone to start a thread with how many customs someone has ordered vs how many times they've received a guitar without problems in the quoted build time. For me, it would be a very, very small percentage. I'd love to hold luthiers to a higher standard, but we're not left with much leverage when they don't deliver.


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## feraledge (Oct 24, 2014)

Can we all be honest, this is just dragging out until it gets resolved because everyone wants to be the first one to post up that perfect "case closed" "meme" that they've been sitting on.


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## pushpull7 (Oct 25, 2014)

tedtan said:


> What surprises me is how readily people on SSO accept sub par customer service and custom guitars that aren't up to snuff. Folks on TGP, as one example, wouldn't accept a lot of people here do. I guess its the age difference since people here tend to be younger and less experienced than people over there.



Unfortunately, this is not "SSO"

Where I encounter this phenomenon the most is with DAW hosts. There are SO MANY people that just put up with every single issue and problem and own it like a badge of honor. UGGGGGGGGG.

I mean, it's different with guitar prices a through z to some degree. We know that a "premium" ibby is not likely to be a "j custom" so to speak.

I dunno, maybe I'm just rambling......


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## narad (Oct 25, 2014)

It's just ridiculous that when the guy does get the new case all the people making a huge fuss are going to pat themselves on the back, "Thank god for that thread - banding together to see justice prevails!" when like..yea, we could have just waited a few weeks to see if it was actually going to be wrapped up with the next batch of cases.



tedtan said:


> What surprises me is how readily people on SSO accept sub par customer service and custom guitars that aren't up to snuff. Folks on TGP, as one example, wouldn't accept a lot of people here do. I guess its the age difference since people here tend to be younger and less experienced than people over there.



But on SSO, we actually play our guitars! haha. I mean, you pay $10-20k for a guitar you are pretty much guaranteed that builder is going to jump through hoops for you and dedicate much more of their time to each build. In the more modest $2-3k you're really not going to get a flawless build - it's very rare. I mean, that's nothing new, that's everything in life.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 25, 2014)

narad said:


> It's just ridiculous that when the guy does get the new case all the people making a huge fuss are going to pat themselves on the back, "Thank god for that thread - banding together to see justice prevails!" when like..yea, we could have just waited a few weeks to see if it was actually going to be wrapped up with the next batch of cases.



The flaw in your logic is that you could have said the same damn thing for Sherman, BRJ, Strictly 7, Roter etc. All of them made promises of "It's coming, give me another week/month.... don't worry, I'm a good guy! It's coming, guys, don't worry!" and we've all seen how that turned out time and time again. This is not necessarily on the same scale (yet? ), but any time you see long-term hesitation when it comes to handling compensation or delivering something (especially something as small as a case, no less) it's easy to brush it off and assume they'll deliver... until they don't.  Obvioulsy we've never seen that before here though, so why worry about it?!


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## narad (Oct 25, 2014)

HighGain510 said:


> The flaw in your logic is that you could have said the same damn thing for Sherman, BRJ, Strictly 7, Roter etc. All of them made promises of "It's coming, give me another week/month.... don't worry, I'm a good guy! It's coming, guys, don't worry!" and we've all seen how that turned out time and time again. This is not necessarily on the same scale (yet? ), but any time you see long-term hesitation when it comes to handling compensation or delivering something (especially something as small as a case, no less) it's easy to brush it off and assume they'll deliver... until they don't.  Obvioulsy we've never seen that before here though, so why worry about it?!



Quite different in my mind to equate long-term excuses for not delivering instruments to excuses to comparatively short-term excuses for not delivering replacement cases for unpredictable superficial shipping damage.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 25, 2014)

narad said:


> Quite different in my mind to equate long-term excuses for not delivering instruments to excuses to comparatively short-term excuses for not delivering replacement cases for unpredictable superficial shipping damage.



Maybe, maybe not. They all start somewhere. 

Debating the point further is useless now anyways. Give them until early-mid November to make good on their promise. If they don't take care of him by then like they said they would, we won't know until then regardless.


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## JP Universe (Oct 26, 2014)

Nothing else I can really add but couldn't help but contribute my thoughts&#8230; Really disappointed in Skervesens handling of the situation&#8230;. They dropped the ball multiple times with this one. It's not about the case at all, it's their customer service. Not good enough&#8230;.

Didn't pack it properly, Didn't offer any kind of $$ compensation wise for the case and have now come in to a thread with a really poor response to the customer and won't admit their packing was subpar 

I believe someone said that it wasn't a big deal but I'd say it is 
Over 7000 views into this thread now. I would probably get asked for my custom shop opinion by randoms through here or on Facebook say once a month and I can say I won't be recommending them!!

Some of you would see me recommending and supporting Ron Thorn on SS.ORG and hey a little OT but I'l seize the opportunity to remind you guys what good customer service in the custom guitar game is&#8230;..

He gave me a $250 discount on my Pirate Map guitar because I was 'Patient' He quoted me 6 months and I got it within a year (perfectly fine compared to other custom shops ). It was actually held up by Dan who had multiple projects happening at the time. I didn't ask for anything or expected anything (why would you?) but Ron Proactively went out of his way to give me a discount even though he had no need to&#8230; It was out of his control. THAT is EXCELLENT customer service and guess what? I've got another build with him and will probably get 10 more. If you see any of his threads on TGP you'll see the stellar reputation that he has built. 

What I find appalling is that smaller custom shops (The majority, there are exceptions) don't understand that it's just not about the final product. It's about the journey itself. Good progress pics, proactively giving updates and looking after the customer if anything is delayed is all you have to do and we're happy and will start recommending you everywhere and be a big advocate for you.

Skervesen could have offered a partial refund if the customer was happy to keep the broken case then make their claim with UPS. This isn't about a broken case, this is about looking after your customers and IMHO Skervesen have not done that!!!  at the end of the day customer will get his new case but the principle of the matter is the handling of this situation was poorly done by Skervesen.


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## hikizume976 (Oct 27, 2014)

Update:

On saturday morning I received an email from Jarek giving me the option of a refund instead of the case, which I accepted.

Just a few minutes ago I received another email with a wire transfer confirmation to my bank account.

I also enquired about a shipping address to send the original case and was told to keep it.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 27, 2014)

hikizume976 said:


> Update:
> 
> On saturday morning I received an email from Jarek giving me the option of a refund instead of the case, which I accepted.
> 
> ...



There you go! Finally a happy ending for this whole deal, but it is a shame that it took the public thread for them to see that they handled this extremely poorly. That being said, they did the right thing in the end, if you're happy with that option then all is cool.


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## tedtan (Oct 27, 2014)

hikizume976 said:


> Update:
> 
> On saturday morning I received an email from Jarek giving me the option of a refund instead of the case, which I accepted.
> 
> ...



Glad to hear its resolved, man.


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## narad (Oct 27, 2014)

narad said:


> It's just ridiculous that when the guy does get the new case all the people making a huge fuss are going to pat themselves on the back, "Thank god for that thread - banding together to see justice prevails!"





HighGain510 said:


> but it is a shame that it took the public thread for them to see that they handled this extremely poorly.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 27, 2014)

narad said:


>



Yes, because in 4 months they offered this solution how many times? Before it became public knowledge that they were yanking him around, did it seem like they were moving much faster to get things resolved...?  Not at all, they gave him the same excuse they did a month ago... "it's coming, don't worry!" is a common one we see in cases like this.  

Let it go dude, you can always say "this is going to happen, they're going to fix it because they're good guys, trust me!" when there is literally a 50/50 shot, and guys said the exact same thing before the BRJ, Sherman, Strictly 7 garbage all went down too. In this singular case, once it was made public, they covered the guy. There's no guarantee either way if that would have happened otherwise, so you can toss your crystal ball in the trash and drop the smug attitude, Narad.  I'm sure you would be thrilled if it were you in his shoes and you were being fed a line for months at a time and then the company never made good on their promises. Until it happens to you, it's really easy to brush people off when they think stuff like this is out of line. The important thing (and really the only thing) that actually matters here is that he had the issue, there was a significant delay, and they finally made good on the promise after 4 months. That's it.


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