# Do 13 string ERBs exist?



## Murdstone

I read a thread here from a couple years back and it looks like all plans that were being made to make a 13 string single-course ERB have been abandoned. 

In theory I'm thinking we have the technology, and I'm assuming it would be tuned from G#00 12.98 Hz to Ab4 415.30 Hz. The fan would obviously need to be absurd for any sort of good intonation, but I think it could be done (read: done, not playable ). What else would stand in the way?

I don't want this to turn into an argument on necessity of a million strings, I'm merely asking if it could work and what others think.


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## vampiregenocide

I'm gonna guess Conklin have probably made one at some point.


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## ixlramp

No Conklin haven't 
There have been various intentions to build a 13 in fourths but no finished instrument that i know of. It is indeed possible G#00 to Ab4 multiscale, the strings exist but the top string would have to be an Octave4Plus on 32" or probably less. I know of a luthier considering building one, i was encouraging him that it was possible, this was my suggestion (with Circle K's old gauges) ...

G# C# F# B E A D G C F Bb Eb Ab

That's standard 11 plus low G#00 .254 and a high Ab4 .006 from Octave 4 Plus

Like this for example, multiscale 36" to 30" (0.5" per course) ...

30" scale
Ab .006p ... Ab is possible on a 32" scale or shorter with Octave 4 Plus plain strings
Eb .008p ... Formerly the SIT .007. At 30.5" a mainstream .008p will tune to Eb
Bb .011p
F .016p
C .027 ... all roundwounds are Circle K and have equal tension down to C#
G .037
D .052
A .072
E .096
B .130
F# .174
C# .232
G# .254 ... at a lower tension than the other strings
36" scale


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## Murdstone

ixlramp said:


> I know of a luthier considering building one, i was encouraging him that it was possible, this was my suggestion (with Circle K's old gauges) ...



Anyone we know? I would definitely encourage them to try, it would absolutely be one of a kind. Prat et al have only gone to 12, and there's only a handful of those. Make him/her do it


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## ixlramp

Yeah i think he's a member here. Maybe he'll comment


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## Explorer

Because of the string tension issues, I suspect there aren't many out there. I remember this one...







...from this build thread.

Of course, 14 strings are easily done when you duplicate note ranges...


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## Metal_Webb

As with many things, if you threw enough money at a brave, skilled and (possibly) slightly mad luthier they should be able to craft something up.

The strings are definately there for a bass like this these days, the only issue would be making a beast of a neck that resists caving in on itself when you load the couple hundred pounds of tension onto it.


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## Explorer

@Murdstone - Out of curiosity, is this something for which you feel the need?

I'm not bashing having that need, but wondering if you're researching in order to get one, or if this is just idle curiosity.

Having been on the fence for a while, and then having finally decided that I would be able to make full use of the range of a 9-string, I know it took me a while to figure out how to incorporate the lowest B0 into normal play. Having been using a 6-string bass for a bit at this point, I'm comfortable with incorporating that low B0. I do wonder, though, if you have practical experience with ERB.

I think it was just something you said, reminding me of a friend of mine who's a builder and someone who wanted to "encourage" him to build an extreme design. "I don't need encouragement... I just need a paying customer!" The guy backed off when he found out how much the encouragement would actually cost. *laugh*


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## Murdstone

I wish I had the money to feel the need 
After my OAF 10 just a few months ago, I doubt I'll be getting a new guitar for a long while. I was definitely on the fence for a little while about going lower as well, but I'm actually finding more use for the lower range than the higher. I love playing bass parts with the 10, especially with the silky tone that the bubinga puts out.

Those Jerzy Drozd basses are so tasty. I'd love to own one someday, however unrealistic that may be.


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## ixlramp

Garry Goodman announced plans for one years ago tuned C0 to C5, as far as i know not yet built. Jean Baudin had one on the way, the pickup was built but no news of a finished instrument, perhaps abandoned. There was that 'Griffin' 13 which became a 12 and then abandoned. Also someone slapped 13 strings on a piece of wood and saturated the web with news of 'the worlds first 13 string bass'. Well it wasn't tuned in fourths and looked very badly built, just a warning if you do a web search. Yves Carbonne has said he can't play more than 12, but then his bridge spacing is 20mm!


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## Explorer

I've been thinking about this topic, and apparently that thinking seeped into my dreams.

You know those Andean panpipes which have the pipes so the tones interweave, instead of a straight scale?






I had a dream where someone had altered an octave-strung 12-string bass into something like that, so you could easily hit stacked fourths and thirds. 

Now that I had that dream, I have to wonder how such interwoven/massively re-entrant tunings would work in practice. I have a Yamaha G10, which allows me to reprogram the pitches very easily, so I might give the panpipe idea a try....

(BTW, I'm informed from across the room that you all probably *don't* know about those panpipes with the tubes interspersed, and that once again I've probably strayed from the paths of knowledge normal people travel. *laugh*)


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## Murdstone

I used to have a small panpipe, I couldn't play it very well though 

For Yves to say he couldn't play 13 strings that must mean he tried one somewhere. Unless he's just saying that 12 is almost too much as it is.


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## knuckle_head

Murdstone said:


> For Yves to say he couldn't play 13 strings that must mean he tried one somewhere. Unless he's just saying that 12 is almost too much as it is.



He's struggled with strings for his 12s - first and second - and wouldn't/doesn't want to invite the difficulties. He and I have talked about this at some length. 

As suggested, a fanned instrument is ideal should there be a player brave enough to want to give it a go. I would never build one just to build it, but if someone wanted it done I know I could do it.


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## ixlramp

If someone wants this kind of range ... this is where fifths tuning comes in ... a ten string in fifths would exceed the range (not that you'd want too) so lets say a 9 string in fifths from G#00 to E4 (top string of guitar): G#D#A#FCGDAE. This is actually an ERCello tuning. With multiscale you could even use normal plain strings on top and not need something special, super-thin and delicate.

I can't remember Yves exact words on his forum (i wasn't quoting him above) but it was something similar to '12 is enough'.


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## Murdstone

knuckle_head said:


> He's struggled with strings for his 12s - first and second - and wouldn't/doesn't want to invite the difficulties. He and I have talked about this at some length.
> 
> As suggested, a fanned instrument is ideal should there be a player brave enough to want to give it a go. I would never build one just to build it, but if someone wanted it done I know I could do it.



I was hoping you would chime in, you seem to be a big proponent of probing the depths of sound. If I ever find the cash to make something like this happen I'll definitely let you be the first to know


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## TheBloodstained

Old thread with same topic?
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/bass-guitar-discussion/76228-13-string-bass-right-way.html

found a picture of another 12'er





didn't really find any 13 string basses in my search. Seems like 12 is the max for most players?


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## Murdstone

The builder of the above thread actually chimed in during the thread and mentioned that he took it down from 13 to 12.


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## ixlramp

Just discovered that Jean Baudin is selling his JP basses Naia 12 string: FS: Conklin 9-string Sidewinder and JP Basses Naia 12-string - TalkBass Forums

As far as i know there are 5 12 string basses. Garry's Adler, Yves' Jerzy Drozd, Jean's JP, and most recently 2 headless Prat Basses i have posted threads about.


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## Murdstone

EDIT: Nevermind, that was only an 11. 

I'm looking around for more 12s, I feel like there are more than that. I could be wrong however.


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## Durero

Yves has two 12-string Jerzy Drozds so that makes the total 6 Mat.


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## ixlramp

Wooo ... thanks Durero ... I've just found photos of his second 12 string, the Jerzy Drozd Legend XII 2.0 Yves Carbonne Signature. I've been waiting for news of this for years, looks like it's just been completed.

















Also found this beautiful Jerzy Drozd 9 string ...


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## Murdstone

I don't recognize the saddles on that 12 - are they adjustable?


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## ixlramp

Well spotted, looks like they might be fixed ...






I prefer the first 12, it's more brutal.


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## 6and10

ixlramp said:


> Garry Goodman announced plans for one years ago tuned C0 to C5, as far as i know not yet built. Jean Baudin had one on the way, the pickup was built but no news of a finished instrument, perhaps abandoned. There was that 'Griffin' 13 which became a 12 and then abandoned. Also someone slapped 13 strings on a piece of wood and saturated the web with news of 'the worlds first 13 string bass'. Well it wasn't tuned in fourths and looked very badly built, just a warning if you do a web search. Yves Carbonne has said he can't play more than 12, but then his bridge spacing is 20mm!


 
I was thinking Garry or Jean likely candidates for an upcoming one. They've always seemed close as to who gets something first. From what I've seen, Yves might be getting a little more into the smaller basses as of late. You do sort of reach a point that more starts to get to be too much of a compromise in playability. Yves is a monster for taking a fretless to 12 strings and playing it well  . I'm thinking a 2-handed tapper will probably use a 13 or bigger on fretted. I imagine they are real tough to play finger style.


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## ixlramp

Since we're collecting photos of 12 string basses here's a brutal double 12 ...


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## lettsbasses

I realise this thread is old but heres a 13 string bass that I have in the works for a customer in the uk.
ash/camphor burr body. wenge/padauk neck-through, fretboard and headstock.


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## Durero

Great to see!

Have you worked out the tuning? What scale lengths are you using?

Hope you'll post more as your build progresses 


Do you have a website or FaceBook page?


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## ixlramp

Very cool to see this


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## jonajon91

*ahem*


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## lettsbasses

Well. We'll definately be going up to the elusive Ab in 4ths with a hefty fan of 35"/28". Although I'd like to try and ease up on that if possible. I plan on keeping the tuners and bridge as close together as possible to alleviate a little tension. The first thing to do is experiment with 007,009 on a test neck with unfixed nut to find the perfect scale for the Ab. I'm pretty confident (cocky?). I'm working out the spec with a very experienced erb-ist. I actually have 2 13's on the go. I'll definately keep you updated.
The website (if I'm allowed to mention it) is lettsbasses.co.uk.
The shape has been slightly revised over the last few days.
Here you go.




It will be all natural though. 3-pc Wenge neck, Alder body (chambered) and spruce top. I see someone posted a link to Prometeus. It looks like the race is on. He has a lot of erb building experience whereas I'm new to anything over 7 strings. Like I say though, confident. My man is pretty sure 28" with a 007 wont work so 30" is out for us. Watch this space I guess. Jon.


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## ixlramp

Thanks for the image looks gorgeous. There has been some discussion on 13s here http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/bass-guitar-discussion/223358-254-string-low-g-any-experience.html. According to Tom Drinkwater it helps the top string if there is very little downforce at the nut.


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## Durero

Octave 4 Plus strings will get you to Ab4 at 28" scale, though they're relatively expensive strings.

Ernie Ball is supposed to have some extra-strength strings coming out this year which look very interesting for high tunings.


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## lettsbasses

ixlramp said:


> Thanks for the image looks gorgeous. There has been some discussion on 13s here http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/bass-guitar-discussion/223358-254-string-low-g-any-experience.html. According to Tom Drinkwater it helps the top string if there is very little downforce at the nut.


Thanks, I'll look into that. D'addario guitar strings work 'straight out of the packet' I'm told. Of course custom strings are the way and for anyone willing to spend the dough on one of these (£2000-ish), 2oo quid for a few sets of custom strings is not the end of the world.


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## rifft

13 strings? Why not 18?


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## lettsbasses

Did some scale length testing for Ab using rotosound .009 and .008. I reckon it could go to 27" with a proper bridge but definately no more without going with a piddly .007
It looks like a fan of 35"-27" will be the best method. Unless I can find some stronger strings.
Ab scale length test for 13 string ERB - YouTube 
How does youtube embed work around here then?


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## JSanta

Thanks for sharing the video, I am looking forward to seeing how these turn out!


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## lettsbasses

JSanta said:


> Thanks for sharing the video, I am looking forward to seeing how these turn out!


Thanks for watching! Fingers crossed eh


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## JSanta

I really enjoy seeing guys pushing the boundaries of what is usually accepted. I really like the design, so I'm sure it's going to be a fun build.


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## ixlramp

Youtube embed is [ youtubevid ] NuSXqR4YGQQ [ /youtubevid ] without the spaces.


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## Winspear

I'm digging that design!
My biggest concern is the nut. The fan in terms of string to string difference is perfectly acceptable..but there are going to be problems with the first fret low string reach I think..

On my Vik 9, the nut angle means that my index is going over the nut when playing 1 on the bottom string alone. It's not uncomfortable and is not a problem, but on your bass I think the tuners will definitely get in the way. The bridge fan is very subtle, maybe move the parallel to the 8th fret?


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## ixlramp

^ Yeah good idea to have the perpendicular fret closer to the nut. The width at the bridge allows you to soak up more scale change without an extreme bridge angle. Equalising the nut and bridge angles would shift the perpendicular fret towards the nut. It's worth considering more angle at the bridge than at the nut too.


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## lettsbasses

You aint seen nothin yet!
This radical fan is only for the 'true' 13 string and the guy I'm working with plays mostly in the middle of the board so the low and high frets are not too much of an issue. The string manufacturer we are working with has advised that the .256 (I'm pretty sure it is .256, and not .254) will only be of any real use at 40"! We have decided that the only scale that will achieve a truly functional G# and high Ab is 40-25.5 which is gonna require a redesign of the body shape.
Obviously alternate tunings or anything 11 strings or below will not need such a mental fan. Thanks. JL


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## Durero

Now you're talking!


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## Chuck

13 single strings on any guitar-based instrument is just ridiculous IMHO


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## TolerancEJ

If someone has money ready to hand over, I'm sure a builder would gladly accept a challenge of building whatever a person wishes. They're not just going to build one to satisfy someone's curiosity.


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## lettsbasses

Misery Theory said:


> 13 single strings on any guitar-based instrument is just ridiculous IMHO


 No it isn't. Extending the range of any instrument can only be a good thing.


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## lettsbasses

TolerancEJ said:


> If someone has money ready to hand over, I'm sure a builder would gladly accept a challenge of building whatever a person wishes. They're not just going to build one to satisfy someone's curiosity.


Too right, I would never have made a stock bass with more than 6 strings up until 6 months ago. Now I am totally hooked on erb's and if I ever have the time/money I would definitely build one for myself. There has been interest in 13 string basses for sometime. It isn't a new concept really. The problem was always string availability and the tension involved with long scales. You just have to work around the problems and MAKE IT WORK! You could easily have said that about 6 string basses before they existed. Several companies now offer 10/11 string basses as standard options, conklin, bee bass etc and the music that is created on erbs can be incredible and beautiful. A lot of people hate the idea because they dont fully understand the concept unfortunately. Andres Segovia was a guitarist but was involved in the development of extended range guitars (10 strings I think). Was he an idiot? No! This is a forum for 7 string guitarists. Is that a daft idea? No! Do guitarists stop at 7 strings because more strings would be ridiculous? No! Do people always strive for more? YES!


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## Durero

Misery Theory said:


> 13 single strings on any guitar-based instrument is just ridiculous IMHO



Why?

Are 88-key pianos just ridiculous to you?


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## TolerancEJ

lettsbasses said:


> Too right, I would never have made a stock bass with more than 6 strings up until 6 months ago. Now I am totally hooked on erb's and if I ever have the time/money I would definitely build one for myself. There has been interest in 13 string basses for sometime. It isn't a new concept really. The problem was always string availability and the tension involved with long scales. You just have to work around the problems and MAKE IT WORK! You could easily have said that about 6 string basses before they existed. Several companies now offer 10/11 string basses as standard options, conklin, bee bass etc and the music that is created on erbs can be incredible and beautiful. A lot of people hate the idea because they dont fully understand the concept unfortunately. Andres Segovia was a guitarist but was involved in the development of extended range guitars (10 strings I think). Was he an idiot? No! This is a forum for 7 string guitarists. Is that a daft idea? No! Do guitarists stop at 7 strings because more strings would be ridiculous? No! Do people always strive for more? YES!


 
That is fantastic news. Except, be ready for a superstitious person that may want to skip 13 and go directly to a 14-string (non-coursed ERB). 

By the way, I 'Liked' your Facebook page today and had a look through. You have some very interesting designs.


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## Chuck

lettsbasses said:


> No it isn't. Extending the range of any instrument can only be a good thing.



Not when it becomes so much that it is difficult and cumbersome to play in which is would start to detract from ones musical ability


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## Chuck

Durero said:


> Why?
> 
> Are 88-key pianos just ridiculous to you?



You cannot really compare the two, tbh


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## Durero

Misery Theory said:


> Not when it becomes so much that it is difficult and cumbersome to play in which is would start to detract from ones musical ability


I don't think anyone who's worried about such an instrument detracting from their musical ability is in the slightest danger of buying or playing one.

Others may take the time to realize that having over 5 octaves of range in _one position_ makes a lot of music _easier_ to play than it might be on an instrument with fewer strings.



Misery Theory said:


> You cannot really compare the two, tbh



You certainly can. One of the primary uses of such ERB's is in keyboard-like solo tapping pieces.

For example:


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## ixlramp

lettsbasses said:


> We have decided that the only scale that will achieve a truly functional G# and high Ab is 40-25.5


Haha this is getting extreme


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## Chuck

Durero said:


> I don't think anyone who's worried about such an instrument detracting from their musical ability is in the slightest danger of buying or playing one.
> 
> Others may take the time to realize that having over 5 octaves of range in _one position_ makes a lot of music _easier_ to play than it might be on an instrument with fewer strings.
> 
> 
> 
> You certainly can. One of the primary uses of such ERB's is in keyboard-like solo tapping pieces.



Okay nevermind, that is really awesome. Maybe if these super extended basses were more aesthetically pleasing I would like them more. They just seem so large are cumbersome to me. But then again a skilled luthier would make it effortless to play. 

Thank you for showing me the potential in these instruments man. 

Forget what I said back last page


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## TolerancEJ

If/when one becomes available, it is going to cost a significant amount. One-off instruments do not enjoy the economies of scale, of a routine instrument that gets mass produced. It is quite understandable that only a person who had chosen to dedicate themselves to the ERB craft is going to be interested in an instrument of such a magnitude. It's not like an average person will go instrument shopping at their local store one day and accidentally go home with one of these.

The way I've observed ERBs, in addition to practicing the instrument, one also needs to be aware of the "verbal-baggage" that comes with owning any extended range instrument. For example, any bassist that chooses more than 4/5 strings may generally receive the typical comments like, "Get a guitar" or "Jaco only needed 4."


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## Scott Fernandez

HEY! That's my bass =)



rifft said:


> 13 strings? Why not 18?


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## lettsbasses

Scott Fernandez said:


> HEY! That's my bass =)


ha ha. You're famous!


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## ixlramp

Trust Scott to win them over, he brings coolness, credibility _and handsomeness_ to the ERB world


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## Scott Fernandez

HANDSOME PARTY!!!!!!!!!


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## Hollowway

Scott's pretty muscular and those basses of his STILL make him look tiny! I'd look like a first grader playing one.


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## lettsbasses

Scott Fernandez said:


> HANDSOME PARTY!!!!!!!!!


 I've been watching some of your youtube vids. Great playing Scott! I wish I had time to practice more.


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## lettsbasses

13 string neck.9-piece wenge/padauk.


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## ixlramp

Exciting to see this going ahead, that must be the biggest neck blank ever.
For a moment i was thinking 40"-25.5" was too extreme ... but then i realised that for playing across the strings, as your customer does, an extreme bridge angle is ideal for significantly lengthening the low strings and shortening the high, therefore acheiving more pitch range.
If such as instrument is mostly tapped, an extreme bridge angle is even less of a problem because the player is rarely plucking down there, all that matters is that the frets in the playing area do not get too extreme.


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## WaffleTheEpic

There should almost be a rule 34 equivalent of SSO. "If you wanna know if a guitar with ____ strings exists, it probably does"


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## Danukenator

WaffleTheEpic said:


> There should almost be a rule 34 equivalent of SSO. "If you wanna know if a guitar with ____ strings exists, it probably does"



And if it doesn't, your obligated to make it!


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## Hollowway

ixlramp said:


> Exciting to see this going ahead, that must be the biggest neck blank ever.
> For a moment i was thinking 40"-25.5" was too extreme ... but then i realised that for playing across the strings, as your customer does, an extreme bridge angle is ideal for significantly lengthening the low strings and shortening the high, therefore acheiving more pitch range.
> If such as instrument is mostly tapped, an extreme bridge angle is even less of a problem because the player is rarely plucking down there, all that matters is that the frets in the playing area do not get too extreme.



Yeah, and it's even more perfect for a bass, because there is less need for barring chords. If it weren't for that I'd go for more extreme fans. The biggest fan I have going is a 5" one on a 10 string. I tried 6", but I found that I had to slant my hand too much at the first fret, so I backed off. For single note (or even triads, etc.) pretty much the sky's the limit.


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## russtolium

I've never played anything with fanned frets before, but I always though that the fan would make stuff like barres a bit easier since the angle would be more natural for the hand? I could be wrong.


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## InfinityCollision

A sufficiently large fan may have a greater angle at the nut (or upper frets depending on perpendicular fret placement) than is natural for your arm. Stretches on the highest string while chording can also pose difficulties, though that's more relevant to guitar (and why I'd like an additional high string). Touchstyle should get along fine.


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## lettsbasses

Should be super cool for tapping. Glued the blank up today.
Haven't got a headstock design sorted yet but it will have a compound angle so that the fretboard doesn't have to keep going past the nut and end 'square'. This is where the body is at at the moment. Will probably change again though. The fish tail is absolutely necessary and I think the double cut looks better against the wide neck. You'll have to let me know what you fink.
LINK!


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## Winspear

Looks fantastic and 100% Jean!


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## lettsbasses

EtherealEntity said:


> Looks fantastic and 100% Jean!


Nice one. Jean will have several unique features which will be kept for the unveiling (he has his own mockup). He does want originality so I have to be careful. It's hard not to look like a Ken Lawrence with the fish tail but like I say, it's an important feature with the 40" scale. We'll see how it goes.


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## abandonist

This is just.. I mean... you know.. huh.

Keep reaching for the unusual, man. 

Big ups.


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## TolerancEJ

Maybe skip 13 strings and go directly to 3 digits. A 127-string, non coursed bass. Of course, it would probably resemble a massive hardwood floor and you'd have to jump using your feet from one fretted note to the next. (Bare feet vs Shoes = Pluck vs Pick)


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## Murdstone

I like the tone I get from steel-toed shoes. 

The above design looks great. I'm not wild about the headstock but the fish tail fits the bass very well.


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## joebalaguer

Good lord.


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## TolerancEJ

Murdstone said:


> I like the tone I get from steel-toed shoes.
> 
> The above design looks great. I'm not wild about the headstock but the fish tail fits the bass very well.


 
Tap shoes are the way to go. Get the extra clicking with each step. lol


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## lettsbasses

Yea the headstock isn't even designed yet. The body shape is driving me mental but I'll get it. The fish tail is absolutely necessary if I'm going to get an anywhere near normal guitar shaped body. The bridge needs that extra room but you dont want a body that's just too damn big so you have to extend the bridge end a few inches.
It's all about streamlining and achieving a compact and comfortable beast that balances perfectly and still retains the natural organic curves you want from a bass.
And then sticking a crazy wonky pointy thing on it!


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## ixlramp

Another thread got me experimenting with extreme fans and i came up with this. 40" to 24", a 5:3 ratio, makes top Ab4 easy with any normal guitar string, and has enough length and tension for a .254 G#00 on the bottom. The "fret to string perpendicular" angle rarely exceeds 45 degrees and only does so in non-critical areas.


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## lettsbasses

Well the 009 seems ok at 26" so 25.5" should be plenty short. I was thinking 39.5-26 might do the trick with the minimum craziness but what the hell.


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## ixlramp

Yeah cool i wasn't necessarily suggesting this for your design 
Looks like you've sliced off a big section of that blank, will the headstock be attached as a separate piece of wood? Made from the piece you sliced off? Otherwise the blank looks too short for a neck through bass.
Haha whats the point of a minimum craziness 13 string?


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## hairychris

Insane build. Love it! 



russtolium said:


> I've never played anything with fanned frets before, but I always though that the fan would make stuff like barres a bit easier since the angle would be more natural for the hand? I could be wrong.



Yep, if the vertical fret is in the right place it allows your fretting hand to move more from the elbow rather than the shoulder.


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## lettsbasses

ixlramp said:


> Yeah cool i wasn't necessarily suggesting this for your design
> Looks like you've sliced off a big section of that blank, will the headstock be attached as a separate piece of wood? Made from the piece you sliced off? Otherwise the blank looks too short for a neck through bass.
> Haha whats the point of a minimum craziness 13 string?


The headstock is seperate. Usually cut from the neck blank but I had to make a seperate piece for this as I cut the original a little short. It is a compound angle headstock so the head follows the nut angle. It is going to be a set neck.


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## Scott Fernandez

lettsbasses said:


> I've been watching some of your youtube vids. Great playing Scott! I wish I had time to practice more.



Very glad you dig my work, homie! Truly =)


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## lettsbasses

This is just a test. 40"-26"


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## jonajon91

Are you f*cking kidding me? thats ridiculous! just ... ungh


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## InfinityCollision

That actually looks pretty playable. Fan at the last few frets is pretty dramatic but I'd tap that.


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## knuckle_head

Get your string set sussed?


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## Durero

Awesome!!!


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## JamesRGoodall

That's insane! Definitely needs its own build thread!


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## lettsbasses

jonajon91 said:


> Are you f*cking kidding me? thats ridiculous! just ... ungh


Ha. Youre not wrong


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## lettsbasses

knuckle_head said:


> Get your string set sussed?


Cirkle-k (skip) sorted it for us. He suggested this fan and will be making the strings.


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## lettsbasses

InfinityCollision said:


> That actually looks pretty playable. Fan at the last few frets is pretty dramatic but I'd tap that.


I think you're right man. Doesn't look too bad in the flesh. The unmarked fretless version on the other hand . . .


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## ixlramp

What i love about this project is that it is a practical 13 without the need for delicate custom strings, just your usual guitar top E string ... but also ... at the other end there is a decent length for G#. It just blows my mind.


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## TemjinStrife

ixlramp said:


> What i love about this project is that it is a practical 13 without the need for delicate custom strings, just your usual guitar top E string ... but also ... at the other end there is a decent length for G#. It just blows my mind.



It then just becomes a matter of neck width, fan differential, and overall playability.


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## Metal_Webb

lettsbasses said:


> Cirkle-k (skip) sorted it for us. He suggested this fan and will be making the strings.



He also posts on sevenstring.org with the username knuckle_head


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## iron blast

I'm personally thinking you still can go 40"/25" if you adjust the parallel fret so its not quite as drastic towards the high end. or even go 39"/24"


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## jonajon91

So I was on the letsbass forum (lurking, no account) and I saw that this binky bass chap has a 13 string Letts bass being made. Anyone know any more on this?


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## Winspear

Oh interesting! And he's from Essex too :O Might have to hunt him down when I receive my Letts'


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## lettsbasses

The body shape, almost. Needs a few adjustments (less curve behind the bridge and fine tuning of pointy bits to achieve better symmetry) but you git the general idea.


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## TolerancEJ

That's a beast, for sure. Looking great!


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## ixlramp

*passes out*


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## ixlramp

I love the body design, very unique and artisitic. The long lower horn looks good for balance and for shifting the bass to the right to help with tapping.


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## ixlramp

I thought this was an ultra-short scale bass at first. Stunning.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lettsbasses/282169748481596


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## Winspear

Yeah the proportions look so crazy. 40-25 right? Impressive. I can't wait to receive my 8 string from him very very soon


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## Metal_Webb

Holy sh_i_t, that is just something else 

Words are actually inadequate right about now.


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## coffinwisdom

lettsbasses said:


> This is just a test. 40"-26"








God damn dude


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## shawnperolis

I want to see that as a finished bass.


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## iron blast

I wish there where more updates. I get a feeling this will impload on its self like every other attempt on a 13 string. Although this is the closest I have seen to really going thru with one. This has potential to being the first working 13-string non octave bass made


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## Winspear

^ It wont. Jon is a great dude. The scale lengths are made to work, as opposed to other even 12 string basses where players such as Yves Carbonne have trouble with the highest string. It will be awesome. Not only that but there's 3 of them being made as far as I know - one of which is for Jean Baudin


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## iron blast

I talked to the builder last night and he was saying january/february before they are done damnit thats a long wait :/


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## ixlramp

Saw this at Letts Basses FB page hehe ...


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## jonajon91

Now you're just being silly.


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## JoshuaVonFlash

ixlramp said:


> Saw this at Letts Basses FB page hehe ...


Fugly


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## Espresto

Not as much of a fan of this one, though, I've never been an explorer guy in the first place. 

The angular body and the extreme fan combined make the bass look like it's in the process of tearing itself apart; when I look at the drawing I get the feeling the whole thing is going to contort into some impossible shape and then cease to exist. That, of course, is probably a plus to some.


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## ixlramp

Hehe that design may not be serious or intended for produvtion ... don't know yet, it could be. Body seems too big vertically to me, considering the size of this monster.


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## lettsbasses

Onwards and upwards.


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## lettsbasses

JoshuaVonFlash said:


> Fugly


ha ha. I was actually quite keen to go with this. It is just a ps mockup with nothing organic going on like in real life. The explorer shape is perfect for this type of fan. Like it or not! 
Anyway, it didn't happen this time. Maybe next time eh?


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## Durero

Fantastic! Great to see this project becoming a reality


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## LordCashew

Dear lord! All that wenge on a 13-string must weigh a ton! 

I'm stoked to see and hear the finished product!


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## 8StringX

That looks awesome! I'm surprised how playable an instrument with so many strings and such a wide fan looks. Can't wait until it's completed.

Edit: Is that piece at the bottom of the body attached or a custom stand?


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## lettsbasses

Here's the final design almost ready. Been through changes as you can see. I went for the less ridiculous visuals and slightly less playable approach har har.


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## JoeyW

Must. Play. That.


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## Durero

Nice!


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## ixlramp




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## lettsbasses

Getting closer.


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## jonajon91

Go on then. What's the tuning?


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## lettsbasses

G#-Ab. Up in 4ths but whatever works best really. I haven't put it through its paces yet so we'll have to see. . .
It works though which is the main thing and a major relief ha ha. A bit of a killer weight wise at 15lbs but the balance is not bad at all, and it actually plays really well surprisingly. 
I'm chuffed with the magnetic backplates most of all!


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## Winspear

What were the scale lengths again Jon? I seem to remember it was around 25" so you could do the Ab4 with a normal 008 gauge and not have to buy Octave4Plus strings?? I can tell you it'll be safe up to 25" but above that you might want to tune it down a semitone  
About .250 on the bottom there? 
Damn I bet stringing that cost a bomb 

Insane work dude.


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## Hollowway

This is just plain out awesome. I'm not entirely sure of the tuning, though. A normal 10 string would go C#1 to A4. Adding an 11th string below that would be G#0. And then adding a string below that would be D#0. And then the final string would be A#00. So where am I going wrong?


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## ixlramp

13Hz G#00, C#0 F#0, standard BEADGC, F Bb Eb, Ab4 4 semitones higher than guitar top E.
"40 inch for the .234 G#00 and 27.5 inch for the .007 Ab" I can imagine the owner dropping the tuning a semitone or two to make the top string work.
I actually find this quite an understated build with it's normal bodyshape, single pickup and volume knob. Beautiful instrument.


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## Winspear

I just realised that this is the entire cycle of 4ths. Awesome


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## Alex Kenivel

Must hear the longest arpeggio ever on this thing!


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## Hollowway

ixlramp said:


> 13Hz G#00, C#0 F#0, standard BEADGC, F Bb Eb, Ab4 4 semitones higher than guitar top E.
> "40 inch for the .234 G#00 and 27.5 inch for the .007 Ab" I can imagine the owner dropping the tuning a semitone or two to make the top string work.
> I actually find this quite an understated build with it's normal bodyshape, single pickup and volume knob. Beautiful instrument.



Ah, I'm thinking in terms of it being a guitar. Makes sense.


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## lettsbasses

Hey , heres a link to the 13 string event . . .
https://www.facebook.com/events/354635564685182/


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## ixlramp

13 string coming from Prometeus Guitars.


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