# Daydreaming about an Ibanez headless multiscale



## Thep (Jun 10, 2013)

I'm as infatuated with the Strandberg-esque concept as much as everyone else, and got to thinking, its not impossible that Ibanez wouldn't put it on the board for consideration. They've done headlesses in the past, and more outlandish production features like microtonals, extended range, fretless/fretted combos, etc. For a company reknowned innovating, Ibanez could definitely do it right and grab a niche that might soon be taken by Washburn. 

Wouldn't it be sick if they had an RGD with a Voyager cutaway? I think a thin bodied S series could work well too. Hell, a headless Xiphos would be sick as .... as well!

Discuss.


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## jonajon91 (Jun 10, 2013)

I have not personally seen any headless ibbys, but I cant help but be intrigued. I can just imagine if the whole ergonomics market taking off even more, ibanez could have an RG(e)8 out in a number of years, but for the time being it could only be a custom job and the tiny amount of people that could get an ibanez custom would be made even smaller by the number of people into ergonomics.
This said, I would love to see a photoshop mockup of these ideas, and where would they plaster their ibanez logo on it sans headstock?

---edit---

It would still be black though ...


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## MetalBuddah (Jun 10, 2013)

For those who are curious, this is an Ibby headless...






I doubt we will ever see it but it would definitely be cool


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## SoItGoesRVA (Jun 10, 2013)

MetalBuddah said:


> For those who are curious, this is an Ibby headless...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm looking at that and imagining a flamed natural Xiphos body. And I like where it's going.


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## redkombat (Jun 11, 2013)

headless Xiphos fan fret 27-28.265


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## Curt (Jun 11, 2013)

A headless S with slightly tweaked voyager cut would be cool.


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## HurrDurr (Jun 11, 2013)

Curt said:


> A headless S with slightly tweaked voyager cut would be cool.


 
I was just thinking this. If *any *body shape is chosen for imminent decapitation, it would be the S series. Imagine it: Ibanez SH7421FX

EDIT: Any of the other more ergo shapes like the RGA and maybe the RGD would make sick headless models as well. A sort of tie-in to the whole "headless ergo" craze. I'm almost *positive* they've considered it, but maybe they've ruled it off as a just a fad and are sure it will pass. However, as many of you have said, Ibanez *is* one of the more-willing brands to experiment. Who knows, all the big brands might just have something *huge* (and headless) in store for us come next NAMM.


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## DancingCloseToU (Jun 11, 2013)

HurrDurr said:


> If *any *body shape is chosen for imminent decapitation, it would be the S series. Imagine it: Ibanez SH7421FX



Yes. Bring the S series to the guillotine. Off with his head!


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## MetalBuddah (Jun 11, 2013)

DancingCloseToU said:


> Yes. Bring the S series to the guillotine. Off with his head!








*Eagerly awaits for somebody crazy enough to make this happen*


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## HurrDurr (Jun 11, 2013)

MetalBuddah said:


> *Eagerly awaits for somebody crazy enough to make this happen*


 
Send me one and I'll make it happen!


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## Randy (Jun 11, 2013)

I think the headless multiscale thing is a little played out BUT there are a couple cool idea floating around in here (I'm especially interested in an Axstar revival  )

I might be inspired to sketch up a rendering or two if the right idea crosses my screen.


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## MetalBuddah (Jun 11, 2013)

Randy said:


> I think the headless multiscale thing is a little played out BUT there are a couple cool idea floating around in here (I'm especially interested in an Axstar revival  )
> 
> I might be inspired to sketch up a rendering or two if the right idea crosses my screen.



Yeah, it wouldn't necessarily have to have a fan. I just think a headless Ibanez Axstar or modified S would be a new form of badass


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## Konfyouzd (Jun 11, 2013)

What do you mean played out?

Multiscale is comfortable and some ppl prefer their axes without a headstock... I really only see it as just another option--just one that isn't in as high demand. 

Then again, are headless designs in super high demand?

On 6s and 7s, I see it as something I could take or leave, but once I start getting to 8+ strings, I've found I really do prefer a fan.


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## HurrDurr (Jun 11, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> What do you mean played out?
> 
> Multiscale is comfortable and some ppl prefer their axes without a headstock... I really only see it as just another option--just one that isn't in as high demand.
> 
> ...


 
I can't help but to agree with everything Konfyouzd has ever said... *ever.*


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## Konfyouzd (Jun 11, 2013)

That's a bold statement, man...


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## SoItGoesRVA (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm still leaning towards headless Xiphos with a natural wood finish.  It might help eliminate the neck dive on those bastards.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 11, 2013)

I wouldn't be too shocked if Ibanez was the first to do it in a production basis in the future, but it's going to be a very long time coming.

The thing is, Ibanez (and other companies) have already seen the headless thing rise to popularity than fall back down to obscurity. Just like the 8-string movement and the revival of 7s, it's going to take a few few things, namely a large, genera transcending artist or two and a buying public willing to invest, to make it it happen. 

Also, we'll likely see one or the other first before a combination of the two, multi-scale and headless. 

At the end of the day, it's not going to happen just because some folks on the internet want it to, and as long as guitars without those featured eclipse those with them in sales, it's going to take a big push. 

Consider this:
- Gibson is still having issues selling reasonable amounts of Steinbergers.
- Dean has moved very few fanned RC8s.
- Getting Strandberg's Bodens into semi-production has been, so far, a nightmare. 
- The myriad of design/dress patents floating around headless systems. 
- The need for just about everything to be OEM, and designed from the ground up. 

As those factors fade, we'll get closer to someone, perhaps not Ibanez, coming out with production multi-scaled, headless guitars.


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## Thep (Jun 11, 2013)

Since I only play six string, I don't really care about the fanned that much as others have noted, and would agree that it would be a nightmare of a production. 

However, I don't believe a headless is as far off as you make it seem. Steinbergers are fugly and expensive, its no wonder why they hadn't sold. In the mean time, Bodens were a hit (interest wise) and Carvin introduced their own headless model. Same deal with Dean. Perhaps the reason they moved only a few RC8s is because if someone were paying that much, I'd spend a little more and get one that wasn't fugly. I bet they haven't moved much regular RC8s either. Headless technology is decades old, and Ibanez of all brands is accustomed to making OEM hardware. 

I think if Washburn gets the Strandbergs up and running at a decent level, Ibanez would follow. Fingers crossed.

Actually, the Falchion would be a very good candidate for a headless too. If I recall, it was specifically designed as an ergonomic metal-looking guitar. I think if they trimmed down the upper rear horn, it'd work extremely well as an ergo-headless.


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## Konfyouzd (Jun 11, 2013)

That shit is ugly...


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 11, 2013)

Thep said:


> However, I don't believe a headless is as far off as you make it seem.



In a production context, it is. Carvin is the only builder who isn't "one of the little guys" that's making a headless, and I wouldn't call it production really, as they don't make "stock" models. 



> Steinbergers are fugly and expensive, its no wonder why they hadn't sold.



To each his own, I think the resent Z-Series looks pretty cool. It's not a G/GU but, still not a broomstick.  

As for expensive, the most expensive is $1600, but just about all the others hit for around $1k. Even if Ibanez were to go MII (non-Premium), they would still be above the $1k mark. A bog-standard RG870 is still right around $800. 



> In the mean time, Bodens were a hit



They're having MAJOR teething problems at this point, and Washburn hasn't exactly shipped any yet. Not to mention these aren't production instruments in the truest definition. 



> and Carvin introduced their own headless model.



Which is doing quite well, from the looks of it. Though, once again, it's not production. 



> Same deal with Dean. Perhaps the reason they moved only a few RC8s because if I were paying that much, I'd spend a little more and get one that wasn't fugly.



It's just an RG-shaped 8-string, and it's available in just about any color for little or no extra charge.



> I bet they haven't moved much regular RC8s either.



You're probably right, as Dean isn't exactly a big name in ERGs. 



> Headless technology is decades old, and Ibanez of all brands is accustomed to making OEM hardware.



The tech is decades old, unfortunately the guys who pioneered it back then were smart and own most of their designs. The current headless hardware makers own theirs as well, which puts any company new to headless in this day an age in a hard spot: either design your stuff from the ground up, or pay a bunch of cash for someone else's. 

Ibanez has done that before, but it still is something to consider.


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## Randy (Jun 11, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> What do you mean played out?
> 
> Multiscale is comfortable and some ppl prefer their axes without a headstock... I really only see it as just another option--just one that isn't in as high demand.



I just mean that the two concepts have been done to death in DIY and small luthiers on this forum, so when I see a thread where somebody says "I want to try something new and original! Let's make an ergo fanned fret, multiscale, extended ranged guitar!" I've become less and less interested.

Something of a revival (like the Axstar or the Voyager) is more interesting to me.

EDIT: I'll also add the IMG2010 to the list


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## MetalBuddah (Jun 11, 2013)

Randy said:


> I just mean that the two concepts have been done to death in DIY and small luthiers on this forum, so when I see a thread where somebody says "I want to try something new and original! Let's make an ergo fanned fret, multiscale, extended ranged guitar!" I've become less and less interested.
> 
> Something of a revival (like the Axstar or the Voyager) is more interesting to me.



Totally agreed. I LOVE how the strandberg/ergo shapes look but one of the things about a headless guitar that I really like is how they used to look. An Axstar revival would be great, the shape looks comfy as is and gives it its own character

When I think of headless...I think of a cheesy 80s ballad band playing on broomstick steinbergers in bright neon colors and that is what I want...Is that too much to ask?


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## Randy (Jun 11, 2013)

The aesthetics of the Strandberg are as close to "perfect" as you're going to find. I remember seeing it for the first time and feeling totally at home with it; so credit where credit is due. It's no surprise that it caught on like it has. The Strandberg is original but the lines on it are definitely familiar (a lot of the traditional superstrat, married with the Steinberger GM, with some added flair).

I'm totally with you on the 80s headless thing. One of the things I loved about the headless and semi-ergo movement of the 80s was that everything look new, alien and often ugly. Defying convention was what brought about the headless concept in the first place, so it "clicks" for me to see a guitar throw in lots of different design ideas/innovations.


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## MrPepperoniNipples (Jun 11, 2013)

I daydream about tits


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## MikeH (Jun 11, 2013)

Keep dreaming, OP.


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## HurrDurr (Jun 11, 2013)

What I wanna know is why Rondo hasn't jumped on the headless bandwagon yet? Agile's come in *all* shapes and sizes and yet no headless? Ibanez is in fact known for thinking out of the box when compared to the better known competition, but it's the underdogs at Rondo that have *multiple* production 7's, 8's, 9's, 10's, & multi-scale variations of them all at ridiculously competitive prices and best of all in just about any finish you can think of. So, why no headless?


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## GenghisCoyne (Jun 11, 2013)

HurrDurr said:


> What I wanna know is why Rondo hasn't jumped on the headless bandwagon yet? Agile's come in *all* shapes and sizes and yet no headless? Ibanez is in fact known for thinking out of the box when compared to the better known competition, but it's the underdogs at Rondo that have *multiple* production 7's, 8's, 9's, 10's, & multi-scale variations of them all at ridiculously competitive prices and best of all in just about any finish you can think of. So, why no headless?


 
previously mentioned. all the shit you need to use to make headless instruments is copyrighted/expensive.


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## sonicwarrior (Jun 12, 2013)

Thep said:


> Actually, the Falchion would be a very good candidate for a headless too.



Had that thought, too, and even considered building a custom headless Falchion before I went the Basslab route and made a simple mockup to see how it looked. But I didn't think on cutting the upper rear horn. Might be a really good idea but I wonder if it would still look as good.



GenghisCoyne said:


> all the shit you need to use to make headless instruments is copyrighted/expensive.



Such a shame. I wonder when the Steinberger patents are running out (30 years running time I think and from the 80's). But I guess a big company like Ibanez could manage to make a deal with one of the patent/copyright holders (guess the patents are the real issues).


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## Syriel (Jun 12, 2013)

GenghisCoyne said:


> previously mentioned. all the shit you need to use to make headless instruments is copyrighted/expensive.



Not as much anymore, with Hipshot and their new Headless guitar system, as well as Technology 4 Musicians, that are actually quite affordable. Some of the Agiles have been known to carry Hipshot bridges, so I'm sure if he wanted to, he'd be able to pull it off now, unlike 2-3 years ago where the only choice was the original Steinberger bridges as well as ABM.

I seriously don't understand why headless BASSES are fairly popular, and stayed quite popular after the "headless" peak, while the guitars were ALMOST forgotten. 

Anyways I'm GASSING hard for a Spirit GU right now to mod the .... out of.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 12, 2013)

HurrDurr said:


> What I wanna know is why Rondo hasn't jumped on the headless bandwagon yet? Agile's come in *all* shapes and sizes and yet no headless? Ibanez is in fact known for thinking out of the box when compared to the better known competition, but it's the underdogs at Rondo that have *multiple* production 7's, 8's, 9's, 10's, & multi-scale variations of them all at ridiculously competitive prices and best of all in just about any finish you can think of. So, why no headless?



There is a HUGE headless Agile thread, and it was sent to Kurt. Basically, he said that headless guitars aren't an option at this point and time (he said this as recent as a couple months ago, after the Hipshot headless system was released). 

The factory he uses in Korea isn't tooled up for the production, nor can they find an OEM to produce the required hardware. 

Not to mention, he has to keep the price in a certain range to be viable. 



Syriel said:


> Not as much anymore, with Hipshot and their new Headless guitar system, as well as Technology 4 Musicians, that are actually quite affordable. Some of the Agiles have been known to carry Hipshot bridges, so I'm sure if he wanted to, he'd be able to pull it off now, unlike 2-3 years ago where the only choice was the original Steinberger bridges as well as ABM.
> 
> I seriously don't understand why headless BASSES are fairly popular, and stayed quite popular after the "headless" peak, while the guitars were ALMOST forgotten.
> 
> Anyways I'm GASSING hard for a Spirit GU right now to mod the .... out of.



Agile hasn't used real Hipshot bridges in a pretty long time. They switched to the cheaper, yet nearly identical looking Cepheus bridges a couple years ago. 

The bass community has always been more accepting to newer technologies and concepts. It's no surprise that things like extended range, active electronics, extended scales, and headless/ergonomic systems have continued to flourish. 

Take the most "modern" guitar you can think of and compare it to a Status or Alembic bass from 20 years ago and you'll see that the guitar community is still far behind.


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## HurrDurr (Jun 12, 2013)

Theoretically, The same parts manufactured at the same factories oversees could be
modified to remove any thought that the parts were originally under U.S. Patent. It would essentially be a new part, as far as I'm concerned.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2013)

Got some free time on lunch to sketch-up some line drawings based on the ideas in this thread. Most of them don't look that great but it's never a bad thing to experiment. 

The Axstar and the "non-Voyager-cut" Saber both looked pretty cool, IMO.

















EDIT: Updated


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## ittoa666 (Jun 12, 2013)

I just want to say that any Voyager is automatic win.


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## JosephAOI (Jun 12, 2013)

If the Voyager cut was more angled (More like this: /'''''\ as opposed to: I'''''I) on the RGD, I would buy that in a heartbeat.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2013)

Reposted with more accurate Voyager cut.


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Jun 12, 2013)

Randy said:


>



The "Voyager-cut" looks like a kiddy toy  But the normal one looks very cool


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2013)

YJGB said:


> The "Voyager-cut" looks like a kiddy toy



Can't disagree there. I tried a version with the REAL Voyager cut and it looked so comical, I had to go back and redo it the way I did. The straight inward cuts in the middle of an already inward pointing curve clashed way too much.


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Jun 12, 2013)

Randy said:


> Can't disagree there. I tried a version with the REAL Voyager cut and it look so comical, I had to go back and redo it the way I did. The straight inward cuts in the middle of an already inward pointing curve clashed way too much.



What can be done is not a full cutout but that a certain thickness is cut away so the shape stays intact, but there's still access to the bridge.


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## Randy (Jun 12, 2013)

Yeah, I drew up the non-cutaway versions assuming they'd be used in the baseplate/tremolo configuration with a subtle neck angle (a la TOM). I was just too lazy to add in the baseplate. 

Some extra contouring or even an extended FR-style recess behind the bridge would probably work as well.


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## Thep (Jun 12, 2013)

The S Voyager is so much goodness. 

Please Ibanez. Please.


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## Syriel (Jun 12, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Agile hasn't used real Hipshot bridges in a pretty long time. They switched to the cheaper, yet nearly identical looking Cepheus bridges a couple years ago.



Agile Septor Elite 828 EB EMG Silverburst - RondoMusic.com

So this isn't an actual Hipshot bridge like the specs say so? 



MaxOfMetal said:


> The bass community has always been more accepting to newer technologies and concepts. It's no surprise that things like extended range, active electronics, extended scales, and headless/ergonomic systems have continued to flourish.
> 
> Take the most "modern" guitar you can think of and compare it to a Status or Alembic bass from 20 years ago and you'll see that the guitar community is still far behind.



The guitar community seriously needs to catch up. I envy people with those awesome BASSES and keep asking why the hell guitarists are still stuck up with the so called '56 or whatever year Strat / Tele / Les Paul. Even PRS is a bit of a rare sight and they're old too.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 12, 2013)

Syriel said:


> Agile Septor Elite 828 EB EMG Silverburst - RondoMusic.com
> 
> So this isn't an actual Hipshot bridge like the specs say so?
> 
> ...



That's a very old listing, Kurt just reuses ads when models are restocked, so it's probably not a real Hipshot. I know the last four or five Agiles I owned did NOT have Hipshot made bridges.  

Well, there's a difference between accepting new concepts and going "modern" for the sake of it. New, compelling music can be made just as easily on a vintage Strat as a brand new Strandberg. Guitars are just tools. 

Also, PRS is FAR from a rare sight. I have a hard time calling anything rare in the slightest when it's sold at over 300 stores in the US alone, not counting small shops or online.


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## SoItGoesRVA (Jun 12, 2013)

Dat RGD voyager cut: 

Dat Headless xiphos:


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## Malkav (Jun 13, 2013)

Randy! Please try out a headless Ibanez ARTFIELD! I really loved that shape - would absolutely go giddy if they did a reissue of that


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## Randy (Jun 14, 2013)

Added a couple more.

I switched the bridge angle on both of them. I'll probably repost the original bunch with the new angle, whenever I get a chance.

Ibanez IMG2010 X-ING




Ibanez Artfield AFD45


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## patata (Jun 14, 2013)

never...NEVER do that on an RGD again..NEVER!


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## Randy (Jun 14, 2013)

If that offended your sensibilities, be glad you've never seen the _rest_ of my experiments.


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## MetalBuddah (Jun 14, 2013)

Randy said:


> If that offended your sensibilities, be glad you've never seen the _rest_ of my experiments.



Please elaborate 


Also...these models do not have enough wormhole


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## sonicwarrior (Jun 14, 2013)

Randy said:


> Ibanez Artfield AFD45



That shape reminds me of the XEN HDC:
XEN STRINGED INSTRUMENTS







I think that's my favourite shape so far and I like that even more than I like the HDC shape.


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## SoItGoesRVA (Jun 14, 2013)

MetalBuddah said:


> Please elaborate
> 
> 
> Also...these models do not have enough wormhole



Zing!


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## Syriel (Jun 14, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's a very old listing, Kurt just reuses ads when models are restocked, so it's probably not a real Hipshot. I know the last four or five Agiles I owned did NOT have Hipshot made bridges.
> 
> Well, there's a difference between accepting new concepts and going "modern" for the sake of it. New, compelling music can be made just as easily on a vintage Strat as a brand new Strandberg. Guitars are just tools.
> 
> Also, PRS is FAR from a rare sight. I have a hard time calling anything rare in the slightest when it's sold at over 300 stores in the US alone, not counting small shops or online.



Bleh I guess so. Me saying PRS as a rare sight, is just compared to all the Strat / Les Pauls, especially around my place. I see a lot at stores, but for some reason that older more expensive strat ALWAYS goes out the door quicker than that 10 top / Artist Grade PRS.


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## mrmeangreen (Jun 4, 2014)

Headless or not, if Ibanez did just a year long run of a RG multiscale I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I don't think it's out of any companies realms to at the very least go fanned fret.


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## crg123 (Jun 4, 2014)

Well its not a guitar but ibanez just did a multi-scale bass which is something I've never seen a large company do before.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/bass-guitar-discussion/271918-fanned-fret-our-favorite.html






Maybe they can experiment with bass and move on to a multiscale 8 string


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## Lickers (Jun 4, 2014)

redkombat said:


> headless Xiphos fan fret 27-28.265


 
The best part of the Xiphos is the reverse headstock...


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