# Twelve-tone Serial Jazz



## TimothyLeary (Apr 10, 2009)

Sorry if it's been posted before.

This gentleman rocks!


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## Holy Katana (Apr 10, 2009)

It's interesting how serialism actually works in jazz, which is nearly its antithesis. I mean, serialism is all about everything being planned out completely, but jazz is all about improvisation. Yet, it seems to work, at least for the creation of melodies.


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## TimothyLeary (Apr 10, 2009)

The man has a interview that you could see on youtube, where he says that he doesen't believe in improvisation, it all comes from math, and permutation of melodies. He also says, that everything he does is already done by math, but nobody has played yet, so he doesen't consider his pieces brilliantes or masterpieces, because they have all be "created".


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## robotsatemygma (Apr 11, 2009)

Huh, that actually makes sense, in a weird way. I mean when mathamatics are involved then yes, everything has already been created, it's just a matter of time that someone "puts it together" in a musical sense, regarding melody, harmony, and tone.


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## Holy Katana (Apr 11, 2009)

TimothyLeary said:


> The man has a interview that you could see on youtube, where he says that he doesen't believe in improvisation, it all comes from math, and permutation of melodies. He also says, that everything he does is already done by math, but nobody has played yet, so he doesen't consider his pieces brilliantes or masterpieces, because they have all be "created".



That's a very bleak way of viewing things. I already worry about accidentally stealing a chord progression or motif from someone and thinking it was mine, but if I looked at things that way, I'd end up diving out of a window. I'd like to think that I can make original music.


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## distressed_romeo (Apr 11, 2009)

Interesting stuff... I'd like to see some sort of method book on how he approaches this.


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## TimothyLeary (Apr 11, 2009)

distressed_romeo said:


> Interesting stuff... I'd like to see some sort of method book on how he approaches this.



Yea, I ask it too in one of his videos.



Holy Katana said:


> That's a very bleak way of viewing things. I already worry about accidentally stealing a chord progression or motif from someone and thinking it was mine, but if I looked at things that way, I'd end up diving out of a window. I'd like to think that I can make original music.



well, you can. You just need to choose one permutation that no one have used.  For us(the listener) it will be original.


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## polydeathsphere (Apr 26, 2009)

you could just give everything u write an original name and call it your own arrangement of unknown mathematical nonsense


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## SnowfaLL (May 13, 2009)

It doesnt sound like he uses strict 12-tone system (not playing the same note again before the sequence is over) although I only took a quick listen.. Its kinda cool, and his theory on improv is somewhat true.. Even if you look at Parker and Coltrane, they apparently learned TONS of lines from that one book (i forget the name.. Thesaurous of bebop lines or something?) which is a book of like 100s of pages full of bebop lines, and when you learn like 500 measures of it, you just start mixing and matching them together and its all just combination of different patterns.. Which is similar, in a sense. rhythmic deviation is the key to improvising in my opinion though, its not so much the notes you play, but how they are played and in what rhythm. (note im not a huge bebop/shred fan lol, tons of fast even 16th notes aren't my cup of tea)


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## FanghornFlorist (May 23, 2009)

Holy Katana said:


> That's a very bleak way of viewing things. I already worry about accidentally stealing a chord progression or motif from someone and thinking it was mine, but if I looked at things that way, I'd end up diving out of a window. I'd like to think that I can make original music.



yeah, that whole math/music thing is a real paradox, i feel the same way slightly on both ends. i think inspiration comes before such a creation though...the mathematical formula may exist already, but my mind is separate and part of the entire universe as it stands, and therefor, with all of that behind me, am i which creates all of this withstanding the knowledge that i do not know...

i think in order to be that, the prior knowledge does not matter, because it is already there, only in concept and equilazation.


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