# Anyone Else think Fender makes some good guitars?



## Church2224 (Jun 22, 2011)

Seems like a lot of people on the web are hating on Fender, I really never figured out why, every USA Strat I have ever picked up has seemed to be spot on in terms of craftsmanship, and Technically my amazing Jackson SL2H Soloist could be called a Fender, I just never see the reason why people hate them so much.

Only saying this because a buddy of mine got a new American Standard Strat and it was a flawless guitar and sounded great as well and he absolutely loves it...


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## JamesM (Jun 22, 2011)

Unless it's pre '74 honestly I'd rather own a G&L.

EDIT:
Except the Eric Johnson signature from ~2006. That guitar is ace.


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## -42- (Jun 22, 2011)

I like Fenders, and I think they are a lot more versatile than they are given credit. 

You're not helping my tele GAS one bit though...


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## Nitrobattery (Jun 22, 2011)

The last few years especially Fender has REALLY stepped up their game. They make great stuff.


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## Church2224 (Jun 22, 2011)

Nitrobattery said:


> The last few years especially Fender has REALLY stepped up their game. They make great stuff.



Yeah I agree completely. I remember in 06 going to Guitar Center and they are kinda "meh" but for the past few years they have been doing well IMHO. My friend's Strat is a perfect example. 

Gotta love the Yngvie Malmsteem and James Root Strats....


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jun 22, 2011)

Lack of innovation? But then I guess they (iirc) bought steinburger.


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## WickedSymphony (Jun 22, 2011)

-42- said:


> I like Fenders, and I think they are a lot more versatile than they are given credit.



Definitely. I've got an American Deluxe Strat from '04 and I used to do everything from blues to metal on it. The guitar is also spot on as far as build quality goes - plays and sounds just great. 

I've also got a FMT Tele, and even though it's Korean made, it's still built and plays well. Sounds a bit different than traditional Tele's though since it's a dual humbucker config... Maybe I'll go Townsend on it and throw some EMG's in it someday


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jun 22, 2011)

I <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 my American Tele. Its construction is flawless, and I genuinely consider it a bargain for what it is. I've never even considered swapping the pups. They're perfect for what they're intended to play, and surprisingly adequate for what they aren't. In fact, if I ever get around to building a Wamoth Partscaster, it's going to have a Fender neck pup.


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## Church2224 (Jun 22, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> Lack of innovation? But then I guess they (iirc) bought steinburger.




That was Gibson actually. 

I was mainly focusing on Quality as a whole. I mean yeah they have basically been the same since the 50s lol. They got Jackson and Charvel I guess to try different things with....


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## jordanky (Jun 22, 2011)

I've had a '95 American Standard Strat, it was a cool axe but I never could get along with anything about it. I'd rather buy G&L.


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## Justin Bailey (Jun 22, 2011)

Most guitar companies make some good guitars, people hate just because of a name on a headstock just as much as people blindly love for the same reason.


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## Opion (Jun 22, 2011)

I've played some beautiful Strats, and some not-so-hot ones. I owned an American Deluxe Strat from 2001 that had amazing tone, beautiful cleans and that classic Fender single-coil sound, it was just too bright for my tastes (Ash body + Maple neck/fretboard, go figure eh?), so I sold it. I almost don't even bother picking up any non-US Fenders anymore because they just don't have that feel. 

I do agree with The Armada though, G&L's are the shit, as are old pre-Jackson buyout Fenders.


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## Church2224 (Jun 22, 2011)

Opion said:


> I've played some beautiful Strats, and some not-so-hot ones. I owned an American Deluxe Strat from 2001 that had amazing tone, beautiful cleans and that classic Fender single-coil sound, it was just too bright for my tastes (Ash body + Maple neck/fretboard, go figure eh?), so I sold it. I almost don't even bother picking up any non-US Fenders anymore because they just don't have that feel.
> 
> I do agree with The Armada though, G&L's are the shit, as are old pre-Jackson buyout Fenders.




I can attest that Jackson's quality since the buyout has not diminished. My 2007 USA Select Soloist is phenomenal, and many can attest that Jackson still makes some great guitars. It is all Ebay seller hype.


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## MatthewK (Jun 22, 2011)

I have no problem with Fender. Teles kick ass.


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## noob_pwn (Jun 22, 2011)

i love teles, one day i will own one


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## maliciousteve (Jun 22, 2011)

I'd rather put faith in Fender to release a guitar that's of good quality and versatile rather than a certain other company who's CEO has completely lost touch of what it's all about.


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## Ironbird (Jun 22, 2011)

^ What he said.

I think Teles are cool, too.


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## ittoa666 (Jun 22, 2011)

My towns music store has a fair amount of fenders, from low quality to custom shop models, and every one plays great, especially the us standard strats. Best neck of all time. Hell, I even bought a squire strat from that music store the other day for $170 (with a seymour duncan invader in the bridge. It's a fat strat), and it plays great. All in all, they beat gibson tenfold.


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## DavyH (Jun 22, 2011)

ittoa666 said:


> My towns music store has a fair amount of fenders, from low quality to custom shop models, and every one plays great, especially the us standard strats. Best neck of all time. Hell, I even bought a squire strat from the other day for $170 (with a seymour duncan invader in the bridge. It's a fat strat), and it plays great. All in all, they beat gibson tenfold.


 
+1.

I've got:

2004 American Deluxe Strat
2009 American Telecaster
2005 Custom Shop Flat Head Showmaster.
2006 Squier Hello Kitty Strat 

There are degrees of quality in the hardware, but the cheap 'n cheesy (Korean) Squier is as much fun to play as any of the high-end stuff and is really well finished. Some of the newer Mexican stuff is every bit as well made as high-end American instruments - Baja Tele for starters.

I've always played Fender-style instruments and the soft C and D necks feel right. The V-necks feel completely wrong. Anyone who grew up playing Ibanez Wizard necks will probably never be comfortable with them and Gibson players tend not to like the longer scale length.

Anyone making flat-out statements that Fender instruments are shit has probably never been closer to one than the last Iron Maiden DVD.


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## Opion (Jun 22, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> I can attest that Jackson's quality since the buyout has not diminished. My 2007 USA Select Soloist is phenomenal, and many can attest that Jackson still makes some great guitars. It is all Ebay seller hype.



Definitely, I wasn't saying anything about Jackson's quality in particular losing its touch, although I can't say i've played a high quality Jackson I have no doubt in my mind they play sick as hell.


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## Church2224 (Jun 22, 2011)

Opion said:


> Definitely, I wasn't saying anything about Jackson's quality in particular losing its touch, although I can't say i've played a high quality Jackson I have no doubt in my mind they play sick as hell.






If anyone knows how to make a perfect shredding neck, besides Ibanez and ESP, Jackson USA and Pro series guitars do!


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## Church2224 (Jun 22, 2011)

I have to say I am impressed with the Amount of people who like Fender here. 

As far as quality dropping, the only company today that has IMHO is Gibson. They, for me at least, tend to be very hit or miss. I mean, yeah you can find a good few is some places but at the same time they have a lot more crap ones out there than other companies. Hell I hate to admit it but Dean even makes some good guitars, I mean they are good but the company still outright pisses me off...but every company, from the big corporations to the small small guys, makes some bad guitars.

We pretty much live in the golden age of guitar making folks....


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## buffa d (Jun 22, 2011)

I own an am dlx strat with a v-neck and it's amazing! It's also my first real high-end guitar and it shows. 

The only reason I could sell it would be if I'd buy a Fender custom shop strat.


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## Hosenbugler (Jun 22, 2011)

Fender is win.


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## Louis Cypher (Jun 22, 2011)

I love Fenders, Strat's just THE classic guitar and seems even here in the UK the prices across the board form Squires to custom shop models is not as outrageous as certain other manufacturers... (You know who you are!!! )

Also nice too that Fender don't flood the market with tacky bloody signature series guitars too... So yeah All hail Leo and the Strat!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 22, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> Lack of innovation? But then I guess they (iirc) bought steinburger.



Lack of innovations? Are you serious?


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## Scar Symmetry (Jun 22, 2011)

Absolutely yes.

I intend on inheriting my dad's 90s Strat and jamming Dire Straits until the cows come home, or whatever.


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## Ribboz (Jun 22, 2011)

Sort of a hit or miss deal. But thats pretty normal for a mass production setup. You have to play a bunch to find a decent one. Even then rarely anything spectacular.


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## MFB (Jun 22, 2011)

I played a Fender Pawnshop Mustang right before I bought my Steinberger (literally days before) and was 99% sold on it, aside from the fact that it would cost me $300 out of pocket, so I walked away. It was light as hell, played like butter and was a nice Lake Placid Blue


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## vices like vipers (Jun 22, 2011)

I have 2nd generation Stagemaster with a bolt on neck, and I love it to death.
It just feels so good for a guitar that's so cheap (I had a choice of a ibanez or a schecter.)
And I only payed 100 for mine.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 22, 2011)

i think most ppl hate on them cause they dont "look" metal. until i bought a diy custom fender a year ago, i didnt think that much of them...till i played it - great axe! although ive wanted the yngwie forever...one day i'll have one.

for me it didnt help that the local music shop carried fenders and gibsons mainly and they made jackson, esp & ibanez out to be jap crap. plus these guys would not really let anyone play them so....


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## Scar Symmetry (Jun 22, 2011)

FWIW, my dad's Strat sounds and plays amazing.


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## Church2224 (Jun 22, 2011)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> i think most ppl hate on them cause they dont "look" metal. until i bought a diy custom fender a year ago, i didnt think that much of them...till i played it - great axe! although ive wanted the yngwie forever...one day i'll have one.
> 
> for me it didnt help that the local music shop carried fenders and gibsons mainly and they made jackson, esp & ibanez out to be jap crap. plus these guys would not really let anyone play them so....




Weird they did since a lot of Jacksons are made in the same factory as Fender in Carona California, note not by the same people. Also weird that they make out ESP and Ibanez to be crap since both make excellent guitars.


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## Church2224 (Jun 22, 2011)

Ribboz said:


> Sort of a hit or miss deal. But thats pretty normal for a mass production setup. You have to play a bunch to find a decent one. Even then rarely anything spectacular.



Sounds like Ed Roman talk to me 

I have never played a bad USA Fender , and most mass produced guitars are not bad at all, granted a couple with problems slip out every once in a while, but probably 90-95 percent of the time they are great instruments.


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## Strobe (Jun 22, 2011)

I have also never played a bad USA fender. I have played some bad MIM strats, but good ones as well. I tend to avoid the fenders just because I have trouble finding one that has the specs I want. The new American deluxes play and feel exceptionally well in my opinion, it's just more than I want to shell out for another sixer I do not need at the moment.

I will also say that my Jackson RR24 was made since Fender acquired them and I am absolutely happy with the quality of that guitar (it is made in Japan).


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## yellowv (Jun 22, 2011)

I love my 2 MIM Fenders. Both are well built and solid. I modded things like the nut, pickups and bridges, but the stock parts were not bad. Now I would put either up against their USA counterparts in all aspects, and both were substantially cheaper.


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## ittoa666 (Jun 22, 2011)

I've also made the observation that fenders are unusually easy to mod. Awesome.


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## SirMyghin (Jun 22, 2011)

The Armada said:


> Unless it's pre '74 honestly I'd rather own a G&L.
> 
> EDIT:
> Except the Eric Johnson signature from ~2006. That guitar is ace.



This x1000, $ for $ there is no competition, Fenders are good and consistant, G&Ls match Fenders Custom shop however. The more modern pickups can still do the old school stuff if you roll them off a bit, and damn they are fine. The option a build at no upcharge (aside from the options themselves) is also amazing.


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## soliloquy (Jun 22, 2011)

i dont really hate em per-se. i just find em ugly and they dont really have much to offer me.
and i dont agree with some of their prices. they charge an arm and a leg for a guitar they beat up and call it 'road worn'....sure.

but again, i dont really hate them. i just dont like/love/want them as i really have no need for them. not really into pick guards. not really into single coils. not really into 21 frets. not really into that type of bolt on heel. not really into the narrow nut. dont care for that annoying control lay out. dont care for the small frets. so on...

nothing against their craftsmanship as i personally haven't really come across any that have any flaws. but then again, i hardly ever pick em up either. 

i do 'sort' of like teles though. not enough to buy one, so i'll prolly get a tele from some other company down the road. but its not a part of my priority for at least the next 3-4 guitars.


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## Elysian (Jun 22, 2011)

I love my Mexi Strat. Can be seen here with my Warmoth Strat:






Black/W/B pickguard, black hardware, X2N in the bridge spot, Lace Sensor Golds middle/neck(Drew's old pickups), Wilkinson tremelo, Graphtech nut, Sperzel tuners, Graphtech string tree. It plays well, has good tone, good beater guitar.

The Warmoth shits all over it but it's also been Plek'd, has an ash body and that ebony board is the sex.


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## Thor_ (Jun 22, 2011)

My dad has a 60th anniversary flame top tele. It's of great quality and sounds spectacular.


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## jon66 (Jun 22, 2011)

I've been wanting to try out those new American Special series strats. They have 1 of each model (sss & hss) at my local shop, but I havent taken them for a spin yet. Has anybody else had the chance to try 'em out?

Also, does anybody else only like the fat 70s strat headstocks? I dont think I could own a "standard" strat headstock - they just dont look right to me...


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## Demonbrn (Jun 22, 2011)

I love my Fender, it still has a great sound after (10 years maybe less), and as mentioned, has great versatility. My only real beef with it is that the frets are REALLY high on it (which I guess gives it room for wear), but it doesn't buzz and is a beast!


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## robotsatemygma (Jun 23, 2011)

There are a few reasons why I love Fender, and a few reasons why I dislike them... so it's a love/hate relationship. 

When I was building my bass rig this past winter, I was looking for a good 4 string Jazz. I was dead set on the MIM Fender Standard Jazz FSR. SO I played 2, some other MIM Standards, a Deluxe Active, 3 American Standards, a Geddy Lee, an American Deluxe, a Squire Classic Vibe, and a Squire Vintage Modern.

I walked out with a used Squire Vintage Modern Jazz. 

Played 10x better then all of the MIM Standards and better then 2 of the American Standards I played, couldn't touch the American Deluxe, and was tonally superior then the Deluxe Active. 


The Talkbass community absolutely loves the new Squire line. I can see why and I fully support Squire basses. Best bang for the buck with this beast of a bass. I cannot put it down. 

But I really think Fender's Quality system is too sporadic within the timeline of their products. Their recent products (2009 and on) are knocking everything out of the ballpark. I played an American Special Jazz... holy sweet mother. Not to mention the Jim Root Signature Strat.

But with Fender's pricing... I'd gladly wait to buy used. They're so common it'd be stupid to buy new.


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## AcousticMinja (Jun 23, 2011)

The new Pawnshop series are fucking unbelievable. Try them. They play like a dream and sound excellent. $800 as well. I played a semi hollow one with a pearly gates bridge and a split humbucker thing and it rocked so hard. It also has a rotary switch which also makes it awesome. I was at guitar center for 2 hours straight playing this thing. 

Squier makes some awesome beasts, too. Especially their classic vibe telecaster. Yum. Fender and Squier have definitely stepped up their game lately. But those who doubt Fender, go try the pawn shop series!


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## Ribboz (Jun 23, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Sounds like Ed Roman talk to me
> 
> I have never played a bad USA Fender , and most mass produced guitars are not bad at all, granted a couple with problems slip out every once in a while, but probably 90-95 percent of the time they are great instruments.



Lol. I chuckled at the roman comment. I think your standards are a little relaxed. :\ Also you took my statement too extreme. I was saying you need to play a bunch to find that real gem. You shouldnt settle for good enough.


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## ROAR (Jun 23, 2011)

If Fender didn't make good guitars why would John Mayer, David Gilmour,
Jeff Beck, John 5, and Eric Johnson play them?

People like to hate on everything. "Fender don't make all black
8 string guitars with EMG's or BKP's and Tosin doesn't play them.
So they suck." Every guitar company has it's pros and cons.
I'd love to own a Mayer or Gilmour strat. 
Or a John 5 tele.


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## yingmin (Jun 23, 2011)

I've never liked Fenders, but I've definitely come to appreciate them more since working in a guitar shop. They just don't make guitars that I want to play. One of the things that I don't like about them, which I've mentioned before, is that when they reissue an older guitar, they even include the features that were just bad ideas. Some, like the Tele input jack that's just pressed into the body and falls out easily, never went away.


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## Church2224 (Jun 23, 2011)

Ribboz said:


> Lol. I chuckled at the roman comment. I think your standards are a little relaxed. :\ Also you took my statement too extreme. I was saying you need to play a bunch to find that real gem. You shouldnt settle for good enough.




Well, YOU may need to do that, but, as for me, I think that a lot of the Fenders I have played suited ME very well. It all comes down to preference. There is not "best" guitar. I settle for what, imho, is good. To me, there is not best or priceless gem. If I like it, I like it, if I do not, i do not. Simple as that. And by that logic if we have a favorite guitar that is just perfect for us, would we just then decide to sell all of the others, as we are just "settling" for those 

You set your standards low, you will meet them and be disappointed. If you set them to high you are missing out on some that is actually pretty good, not the best but still enjoyable and likeable. You set them just right you can be happy and learn to appreciate more out of life. 

Just my , I think the working class self is starting to come out in this....

I am not trying to be an asshole or anything man, just showing my perspective. I see where you are coming from. Idk I have been called a pretty laid back guy, I mean I hate defected guitars and all, in fact Carvin and I are talking about that right now lol. For me I just like what is good, there is no "best" for me, despite I am an Ibanez, ESP and Fender/Charvel/ Jackson/ EVH fan boy, I have no "real" brand loyalties and think no guitar is better, just what you like is all. One person may see a guitar and see it as a Gem, to another, they think it is a POS. Why we have so many guitars to choose from, so many people think of what is perfect 

God I spend too much time trying to prove my points and views to people on the internet, I need to get a girlfriend lol......Now I be depressed for being single....


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## Church2224 (Jun 23, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> This x1000, $ for $ there is no competition, Fenders are good and consistant, G&Ls match Fenders Custom shop however. The more modern pickups can still do the old school stuff if you roll them off a bit, and damn they are fine. The option a build at no upcharge (aside from the options themselves) is also amazing.



I will admit that every time I see your orange ASAT I get some SERIOUS gas lol. 

There is a G&L dealer right down the street from my college campus and I have played a few. Great guitars IMHO. Honestly I think they are as good as Suhrs and Tom Anderson and are cheaper. I do love the Invader and the new Rampage especially.


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## Rook (Jun 23, 2011)

I have a USA Vintage 57 Reissue strat, which I absolutely adore. When it all comes down to it, if only one type of guitar existed (like violins), above everything else I would want it to be a strat.

How easy are they to mod? Just putting heavier strings in completely changes the guitar. Just put a new pikguard on and you can have any configuration or control setup, I've seen loads routed out for floyds, you can change the nut, machine heads... I've never seen more modified variations of any guitar than a strat! I plan on making a green meanie style Charvel strat (So Cal, whatever they call it), routing it for a Floyd, HH or HS pickup configuration.

As long as it's green I dont care about the spec 

I love a lot of Fender's high end stuff. I had a Custom Shop Strat at one stage, the figuring on the neck was unreal.


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## soliloquy (Jun 23, 2011)

ROAR said:


> If Fender didn't make good guitars why would John Mayer, David Gilmour,
> Jeff Beck, John 5, and Eric Johnson play them?
> 
> People like to hate on everything. "Fender don't make all black
> ...



oh boy...that opens up a can of worms.

guitars that stars/celebs play are quiet often much different than what their signature stuff is off of retail stores. often times they are modified here and there with different necks, pickups etc...


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 23, 2011)

soliloquy said:


> oh boy...that opens up a can of worms.
> 
> guitars that stars/celebs play are quiet often much different than what their signature stuff is off of retail stores. often times they are modified here and there with different necks, pickups etc...



Both John 5 and Eric Johnson have made it big points that they play the exact guitar as thier signature models. As for Mayer, if I remember correctly, him main Strat is an older model brought to signature specs. 

As for Gilmour, it's fully known that his signature guitar is more of a tribute model based off of his original black Strat.


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## Vinchester (Jun 23, 2011)

I'm not a Fender player, but I love American Strat and can totally see myself owning one in the future! I mean those things are so beautifully made and sounds sweet.

I'm also a big fan of Eric Johnson!


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## soliloquy (Jun 23, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Both John 5 and Eric Johnson have made it big points that they play the exact guitar as thier signature models. As for Mayer, if I remember correctly, him main Strat is an older model brought to signature specs.
> 
> As for Gilmour, it's fully known that his signature guitar is more of a tribute model based off of his original black Strat.



no, my point is, often times even if you give the stars/celebs their very own signature guitar, and they are playing it, what they have in their hands is slightly altered than what can be found in retail. 

i wont be surprised if, for example, one of those has a glossed neck, but the actual celeb has a satin finish on his guitar. 

sure, some players use the exact same guitar found in retail stores (i'm thinking paul gilbert more so....), but what they have in their hands may not be what you have in your hands even if the headstock claims it to be.


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## Ribboz (Jun 23, 2011)

ROAR said:


> If Fender didn't make good guitars why would John Mayer, David Gilmour,
> Jeff Beck, John 5, and Eric Johnson play them?


If you think they play off the self strats then you're crazy. Even if it was a sig model, that guitars neck and setup is setup nice by their luthiers. Come on guy. 



Church2224 said:


> Well, YOU may need to do that, but, as for me, I think that a lot of the Fenders I have played suited ME very well. It all comes down to preference. There is not "best" guitar. I settle for what, imho, is good. To me, there is not best or priceless gem. If I like it, I like it, if I do not, i do not. Simple as that. And by that logic if we have a favorite guitar that is just perfect for us, would we just then decide to sell all of the others, as we are just "settling" for those
> 
> You set your standards low, you will meet them and be disappointed. If you set them to high you are missing out on some that is actually pretty good, not the best but still enjoyable and likeable. You set them just right you can be happy and learn to appreciate more out of life.
> 
> I am not trying to be an asshole or anything man, just showing my perspective. I see where you are coming from. Idk I have been called a pretty laid back guy, I mean I hate defected guitars and all, in fact Carvin and I are talking about that right now lol. For me I just like what is good, there is no "best" for me, despite I am an Ibanez, ESP and Fender/Charvel/ Jackson/ EVH fan boy, I have no "real" brand loyalties and think no guitar is better, just what you like is all. One person may see a guitar and see it as a Gem, to another, they think it is a POS. Why we have so many guitars to choose from, so many people think of what is perfect



Ok so first off we have different ways to deal with instruments. If a guitar isnt good enough, i get rid of it. Thats where custom builders come in. 
Then, you take my statements alll wrong. I just didnt want to say there are A LOT of crapy strats at guitar shops. Fender isnt the most consistent company. But i didnt want to say that because someone like you would be defensive about it. I love strats. I honestly believe guitars wouldnt be as awesome as they are today with out the invention of the strat. The strat is pretty much the foundation for countless other guitars. 
All I'm saying is fender isnt very consistent about theyre low level builds. BUT if you play a bunch you can find a sweet one.


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## Demonbrn (Jun 23, 2011)

ROAR said:


> If Fender didn't make good guitars why would John Mayer, David Gilmour,
> Jeff Beck, John 5, and Eric Johnson play them?


 
You forgot Dave Murray and Adrian Smith!


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## Esp Griffyn (Jun 23, 2011)

Ribboz said:


> If you think they play off the self strats then you're crazy. Even if it was a sig model, that guitars neck and setup is setup nice by their luthiers. Come on guy.



A hand built guitar from a Fender master luthier would cost an obscene amount, and while if those pros asked for a new guitar they might get just that, signature guitars give the man on the street a chance to play a guitar like their hero's. I don't love Yngwie Malmsteen, but I loved his tone and the YJM strat in general, so I bought a crafted in Japan YJM strat.

It was ridiculously good. In the end though, I just wanted something more capable for metal (without having to mod) so I sold the Fender to a YJM strat collector in Germany.


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## McBrain (Jun 23, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> When it all comes down to it, if only one type of guitar existed (like violins), above everything else I would want it to be a strat.



Only one type of violin aye: Wood Violins


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## JamesM (Jun 23, 2011)

But that's like a sub-market of a sub-market.


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## Justin Bailey (Jun 23, 2011)

Saying there is one kind of violin just kind of reeks of ignorance to me, that's pretty close-minded.


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## Rook (Jun 23, 2011)

.....I think you missed my point...



I knew someone would post a solid body/electric or some other violin variation, it was a bad example. There violin market is nothing like the guitar market, at all, 90% of builders make a traditional violin, you don't get violinists arguing about the length of the fingerboard and hundreds of different wood varieties, neck joints, exact bridge dimensions etc etc. I'm sure there are one or two, but not millions like there are guitarists. You also never see left handed violinists. I'm not being 'ignorant' or 'closed minded', I think you're just looking past the point you know I was making.

Before somebody comes up with an example with one: don't be pedantic, you know exactly what I mean


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## Nonservium (Jun 23, 2011)

I've been playing my buddy's MIM mid-90's strat for a few weeks. He dropped it off to get his volume pot fixed and has yet to come back by and get it. I'm not pressing him lol I like playing it. It feels great, plays great and has that Fender tone. Totally digging it.


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## Edika (Jun 23, 2011)

I like the classic sound of a strat. Whenever I hear those single coils playing clean stuff I feel something warm inside. I am planning of getting an American deluxe at some point.

My first guitar is a Squier MIJ with Floyd Rose II tremolo. It must be one of the best starter guitar I have ever played. Decent pickup sound, tremolo that stays in tune (not like an OFR but better than most Lic. Floyds) and one of the thinnest necks with the lowest action I have ever played. I mean you expect to find necks like these in more expensive instruments. The rosewood fretboard is quite dark and appealing and the maple has birdeyes. The neck of this guitar combined with sentimental reasons will be the reason I will mod this guitar when I have some cash on the side.


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## caskettheclown (Jun 23, 2011)

I want a heavy metal strat that they produced for a while!


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## JohnIce (Jun 23, 2011)

Hm yeah Fender, I've owned 3 of them and played at least 20.

LOVE the tone, but I'd pick a Suhr/Anderson/Tyler/Schecter any day over any Fender, as those makers build guitars that sound like Fenders but are just vastly improved in the design.

Also about pricing... my Tele cost as much as my Schecter Hellraisers, and although it looks pretty and sounds great it doesn't hold a candle to the Schecters in playability and features. It even has a fucking 3-saddle bridge, made in 2009! The neck needs to be either shimmed or replaced entirely, and why it has 21 frets when you can clearly fit 22 without moving the neck pickup is just beyond me.

So no, I don't really actually like Fender that much. Love to hear them, don't like playing them.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 23, 2011)

JohnIce said:


> It even has a fucking 3-saddle bridge, made in 2009! The neck needs to be either shimmed or replaced entirely, and why it has 21 frets when you can clearly fit 22 without moving the neck pickup is just beyond me.


 
Sounds like you bought the wrong Tele, as they've made more modernized ones with 6-saddle bridges and 22 frets.


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## Triple-J (Jun 23, 2011)

Fender makes some great guitars but what I like about them is that unlike Gibson they don't waste time and money trying to "innovate" with goofy nonsense that belongs in an episode of the Jetsons and if I had the cash I'd go for a Jim Root or Billy Corgan sig or the J. Mascis Jazzmaster anytime.

Personally I've a lot of love for their more oddball models as I had an original run Jagstang in fiesta red for a while and I really regret selling it now as the neck was built to shred and bar the bridge being a bit weird it was a well designed playable guitar.

Since then I've purchased the Squier version of the "Subsonic" baritone they did in the early 00's it's weird for Fender/Squier as it's a set neck with a string through fixed bridge but it's perfect to me cause no matter what new stuff I have I always find my way back to playing it and I really wish there was a 7 that had similar spec to it too.


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## ROAR (Jun 23, 2011)

I think you all missed the point on my comment.
Their guitars may be altered, but Fender still makes
them. And alters them.

John 5 uses exactly what you buy (except the goofy headstock),
thought some of his guitars have that.
Mayer has a little bit of work done to his guitars but it's mostly
him buying old guitars from collectors and pawn shops and the like.
His newest signature was based of a custom he ordered and it's
pretty much the same down to the tea.
Either way look at some of the names that play them and you can see
they make a good product. Of course some of them have work done
because string height matters and sometimes pickups.
But they do a good job and make a good product, albeit it's not normally
something I seek.


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## Rook (Jun 23, 2011)

^OT, but you don't have to press enter at the end of every line, it makes it really hard to read  Or it does for me anyway...


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## soliloquy (Jun 23, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> ^OT, but you don't have to press enter at the end of every line, it makes it really hard to read  Or it does for me anyway...


 off topic indeed, but i actually find those much easier than one line that goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on..... 

its kinda like reading lyrics/poem that way.


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## Rook (Jun 23, 2011)

A line break in the middle of a sentence? Different strokes for different folks I guess, I kept losing my place


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## Ribboz (Jun 23, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> ^OT, but you don't have to press enter at the end of every line, it makes it really hard to read  Or it does for me anyway...


Agreed. 
It feels like a break in the 
Subject.
Haha


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## Dvaienat (Jun 23, 2011)

Yes, they're great guitars. I played a Deluxe Player's Strat and an American Standard Strat a while ago. If I were to buy one, I'd block the trem and have the body & pickguard routed for H-H EMGs. 

They are great for metal when kitted out right, just like Gibson Les Pauls - another favoruite of mine.


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## Reion (Jun 23, 2011)

I love Fenders, especially their more obscure models, but the Telecaster has to be my favourite. My local shop got the entire pawn shop line-up in recently, and it just has to be tried. They're very cool sounding and excellent playing instruments!


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## Diggy (Jun 23, 2011)

I didnt care for Fenders til I found my first HM Strat.. now I own 2 HM's and currently looking to buy/trade for more. I guess I always thought of Stevie Ray Vaughan/Yngwie Malmsteen/Ritchie Sambora when I thought of Fenders.. not that there's anything wrong with that.. excellent guitarists, but that wasnt and still isnt my musical direction. Maybe as I'm maturing I'm looking more for a quality instrument w/ good feel and sound rather than something that looks "metal".


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## ROAR (Jun 23, 2011)

I like poetry.
Accept it!


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## MatthewK (Jun 24, 2011)

Seriously want.


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## signalgrey (Jun 24, 2011)

i want to hate my american strat because its so common, BUT everytime i play it and no matter what pickup combos i use...it sounds fucking boss EVERY time.


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## Cabinet (Jun 24, 2011)

I'd love to get a Vintage Telecaster someday. I hear Telecasters are the most relentless guitars in terms of really hearing how well you can play guitar.


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## KDR (Jun 24, 2011)

I've got John Mayer Sig and 50yr Anniversary Strat Plus. 

About the only thing I had to mod if you could call it that is to keep the springs from ringing out. It annoys me more than my tinnitus or even sometimes more than my wife NAGs at me.


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## sell2792 (Jun 24, 2011)

Fender American Dexule $1500 > Gibson Les Paul Standard $2200

I love Fenders, and they can be made to play pretty much anything. The craftsmanship is excellent, and even on the Mexican imports they are ussually pretty nice. Granted they aren't for some people, but if I ever had to own only one guitar, it would be a nice American Strat or Jag.


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## brynotherhino (Jun 25, 2011)

I love teles!!! Im down to two now, and they are easily the most versatile guitars I have. My little MIM can actually get some pretty cool metal tones haha.


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## MatthewK (Jun 25, 2011)

KDR said:


> I've got John Mayer Sig and 50yr Anniversary Strat Plus.
> 
> About the only thing I had to mod if you could call it that is to keep the springs from ringing out. It annoys me more than my tinnitus or even sometimes more than my wife NAGs at me.



It's incredible to me that no guitar maker has thought to engineer a solution for the damn spring noise. You buy a $2,000+ guitar and have to stuff kleenex or slap some tape over the springs to shut them up. Surely there is a more elegant solution. Just another reason I hate tremolos.


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## Ribboz (Jun 25, 2011)

MatthewK said:


> It's incredible to me that no guitar maker has thought to engineer a solution for the damn spring noise. You buy a $2,000+ guitar and have to stuff kleenex or slap some tape over the springs to shut them up. Surely there is a more elegant solution. Just another reason I hate tremolos.


There are noiseless springs.
Noiseless Springs [ANS0001] - $9.95 : FloydUpgrades.com!, Floyd Rose Tremolo Upgrades


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## yingmin (Jun 26, 2011)

MatthewK said:


> It's incredible to me that no guitar maker has thought to engineer a solution for the damn spring noise. You buy a $2,000+ guitar and have to stuff kleenex or slap some tape over the springs to shut them up. Surely there is a more elegant solution. Just another reason I hate tremolos.



Ken Parker and Ned Steinberger have, as much as almost 30 years ago.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Jun 26, 2011)

My biggest disapointment with Fender is - for a range of guitars that hasn't changed in 50 years WHICH were designed specifically to be CHEAP to mass produce; WHY AREN'T THEY CHEAP???

In the early days, the Les Paul was super premium woods and construction whilst the MUCH cheaper to produce Fender instruments, notable for their thin tones suitable for Hawaii guitar sound, found it's niche as a cut price instrument when there was no one else making such a radical concept.

A good example of the weird ness that is Fender; Didn't Tom Anderson work for them before leaving to make his own guitars? that's just irresponsible management to let guys like that do better on their own than for the benefit of themselves from within the company.

I've got a few Telecasters (everything hardware replaced with non Fender) which I keep around... I've also got a Montoro Acoustic in a strat shape, which is ok. I thought the 80's heavy metal strats with Schaller trems and pickups were quite innovative (really interesting trem design from the Germans on that one) and I recently restored a '76 Jazz bass from wreck to show queen for a good friend... (it was left by his wife in a swimming pool in Barbados for 10 years!) 

Lot's of my traditionalist friends have them and go on for hours about their Clapton strat or what have you. ZZzzzzzzzzz. For the same money in custom guitar land you get exotic woods, advanced hardware and exquisite construction and craftsmanship. Fender do nice solid colours though, even on their lower range instruments.

I would say I was ambivalent to Fender, not caring about them much but how can you ignore them when they are everywhere? Go into any guitar shop and the walls are lined with Squires in every colour - it's a technicolour nightmare!

Boring + Overpriced + Bulky + thin sound + primitive designs = not for me

*I expect hate mail for this Fender people! *


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jun 26, 2011)

A brand new American-made strat is $1k. I'm not realy seeing the overpriced complaint.

I'm not touching the rest of them...


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## yingmin (Jun 26, 2011)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> My biggest disapointment with Fender is - for a range of guitars that hasn't changed in 50 years WHICH were designed specifically to be CHEAP to mass produce; WHY AREN'T THEY CHEAP???


All things considered, Fenders ARE cheap. You mentioned Tom Anderson previously working for Fender; compare the prices of Tom Andersons to Fender. Several of his models are basically just copies of Fenders, but they cost a lot more than an actual Fender would. Ditto for companies like Suhr, and even G&L, which was founded by Leo himself. Yes, Fender prices can get pretty high for things like custom shop and specialty guitars, but you can also get an American-made (and this is an extremely important detail) Fender Strat or Tele for $800. Whether or not you think being made in America makes the instrument better, it unquestionably makes it more expensive to produce, and therefore more expensive for the end consumer. Ditto for the dwindling number of guitars they make in Japan; they're pretty much on par with prices for other Japanese-made instruments, if not cheaper. And for Mexico, I can't think of any comparable manufacturer that operates out of Mexico (Taylor and Martin don't really count, because they're different markets).

As I've found myself saying far too often lately, people have a really distorted perception of value. Guitarists have been so spoiled by cheap imported guitars that they define a guitar's value in terms of the cheapest guitar they can get with the specs they want. Comparing US - or even Japanese or Mexican - Fenders to the cheaper import brands is inherently unfair, because if Fender tried to compete with LTD or Schecter or similar brands on specs and price, they'd go bankrupt in a matter of weeks. Not coincidentally, that is exactly the reason most of the guitars you people buy are made in countries like China, Indonesia and so on: because the workers there get paid dickfist. There will probably come a time in the near future when labor costs in Korea reach parity with Japan or the US, and then LTDs, Schecters, PRS SEs, and most significantly your beloved Agiles, will either balloon in price, or ship production off to some less developed country.

This reply is not directed specifically at you, so please don't take any offense if it seems needlessly hostile. I just get so tired of seeing this bullshit repeated over and over again.

Finally, as a counter-argument, look at the Squier Classic Vibe series. I think they smoke most everything else in the $3-400 range, and I'm saying that as someone who doesn't even like Fender guitars in general. Few guitars, if any, give you a better value at that price point.


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## Rook (Jun 26, 2011)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> A brand new American-made strat is $1k. I'm not realy seeing the overpriced complaint.



It's true, and try were designed to be fairly priced working man's guitars back in the day, which compared to classical instruments _were_ cheap. Fender maintain to this day that *inflation adjusted you pay today for a high end (bottom of the custom shop sort of mark) the equivalent of what you paid in the 50's for a Strat or Tele, and from what I gather that was accurate.

People seem to have this image of everyone and their aunt being able to afford to go out and buy one, they were still premium instruments! This is how companies like Cort and Ibanez came into existence.

People say they haven't come up with anything new dice the 50's but nor has anyone else, just little adjustments and minor upgrades. My JPX for example, the height of modern superstrats has the same basic shape, construction (bar some chambering and woods), bridge and controls as the first strats, it has pickups which were first designed in 1953 and a piezo that was first finding it's way onto guitars in the 70's.

Guitars aren't modern things, lol, everyone comes up with their design and sticks to it, Ibanez sell vastly more RG's than anything else, everything goes in and out of fashion, EBMM has had pretty much the same product line for 20 years bar the reflex/gamechanger which is just a Silo/Axis cross breed and the JP which is again a modified Silo, Gibson's the same.

Not complaining, I think Fender's a great company the continue to put out some excellent stuff and very reasonable prices, there's not a lot else that's USA made in the American Standard price beaker except for a couple of Godin guitars.*


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## yingmin (Jun 26, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> Not complaining, I think Fender's a great company the continue to put out some excellent stuff and very reasonable prices, there's not a lot else that's USA made in the American Standard price beaker except for a couple of Godin guitars.



And Godin is not, strictly speaking, American made either.


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## SirMyghin (Jun 26, 2011)

yingmin said:


> And Godin is not, strictly speaking, American made either.



You guys aren't the only Americans either 



. An American is someone living in the Americas.


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## ibanezRG1527 (Jun 26, 2011)

i dont like alder bodies or single coil pickups. and i play metal so i dont really need that spanky clean tone. honestly, i really dont like any of the featured of a strat.

i love tele's though. 7 string tele with a lo-pro edge and duncan blackouts and ill never need another guitar again.

maybe ill make one.................


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## yingmin (Jun 26, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> You guys aren't the only Americans either
> 
> 
> 
> . An American is someone living in the Americas.



If someone sold you an "American-made" Strat that turned out to be MIM, you'd be pretty pissed, wouldn't you? An American is someone living in the United States of America. Living On the North American continent doesn't make you American. By your logic, something made in Peru is "American-made", too.


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## SirMyghin (Jun 26, 2011)

yingmin said:


> If someone sold you an "American-made" Strat that turned out to be MIM, you'd be pretty pissed, wouldn't you? An American is someone living in the United States of America. Living On the North American continent doesn't make you American. By your logic, something made in Peru is "American-made", too.



It still fits proper definitions, opposed to the people of the US's inflated ego in calling themselves (and them alone) Americans  . I don't ask if something is American made, I ask if it is made (with pride ) in the USA.


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## ibanezRG1527 (Jun 26, 2011)

i dont take made in USA as such a hugh deal. i say the quality is about the same as the japanese guitars. theyre just more expensive.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jun 26, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> It still fits proper definitions, opposed to the people of the US's inflated ego in calling themselves (and them alone) Americans  . I don't ask if something is American made, I ask if it is made (with pride ) in the USA.


 
It isn't an ego thing at all, and us "Americans" aren't the only people that use the term to refer to our nationality. What do Canadians call us folk down south of the border? United Statesians? When someone says "I hate Americans" do you get offended? No, because you know damned well to what nationality they're referring. We aren't all so dumb that we think there are no other countries in the Americas, or so egotistical that we think we're the only people who deserve the term. It's just the term that's used, both here and abroad.

Oh, and um... I love teles. Yay Fender.

EDIT to add: I do understand why it would bother some people that we use the term to refer to only ourselves, and in languages that have more specific terms, I use them (in spanish class I say I'm estadounidense, not americano). My issue is more with the idea that it's because if the US's "inflated ego." 

Also, hooray Fender. I'm probably going to pick up a Fender clone of some sort when I move to South Korea. Perhaps this:


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## jl-austin (Jun 26, 2011)

To the original question, as a matter of fact I played a 2010 or 2011 US strat the other day, I was was surprised at how nice it played. I was surprised at how resonant it was. Pretty cool guitar. I have never bothered to play one, because I never thought they fit my style, but still, it was a nice playing guitar. 

I don't know about all the history of Fender guitars, I am only comparing them to what is currently on the market for $1000. From a pure play-ability stand point I think they are competitive with the rest of the market.


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## Shaunheiser (Jun 27, 2011)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> A good example of the weird ness that is Fender; Didn't Tom Anderson work for them before leaving to make his own guitars? that's just irresponsible management to let guys like that do better on their own than for the benefit of themselves from within the company.



1. if Tom Anderson wanted to leave Fender, he was going to leave regardless of whether or not Fender wanted him to stay.

2. Pretty sure Fender probably makes more money per year than Tom Anderson does, so I'm not sure how he's "doing better on his own" than Fender is.


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## Phlegethon (Jun 27, 2011)

like a lot of people in this thread I can't agree with how fenders play or their features. in fact, I sold an american deluxe strat because of those reasons. I will also agree with the ones who say that fenders are built well. so while fenders don't do anything for me or have the features I need, they're guitars that are built with consistency and are quite reliable instruments to play and gig with (started teaching when I had the strat, and it never let me down once)


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## yingmin (Jun 27, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> It still fits proper definitions, opposed to the people of the US's inflated ego in calling themselves (and them alone) Americans  . I don't ask if something is American made, I ask if it is made (with pride ) in the USA.



So if you were traveling abroad, and someone asked you where you're from, would you say you're from America, or from Canada? Would you call yourself American, or Candi(a/e)n? Similarly, how would you react to meeting someone who called himself an American, despite living his entire life in, say, Argentina? Calling anybody from either North or South America an "American" is even worse than lumping everybody from the African, European or Asian continents together, because it's actually TWO continents that span almost the entire globe latitudinally. Even when people say "Asian", they're usually referring to something more specific than simply living on the Asian continent.


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## SirMyghin (Jun 27, 2011)

Travel? That costs money dude, guitars don't leave me with any of that. Either way I am having fun with you (yeah I am a dick, oh well), the reason Fun posted American made is because he is in England and likely looks closer to what I was trying to justify. I have no interest in travelling either way however.


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## engage757 (Jun 27, 2011)

Simple answer. No.


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## engage757 (Jun 27, 2011)

The Armada said:


> Unless it's pre '74 honestly I'd rather own a G&L.
> 
> EDIT:
> Except the Eric Johnson signature from ~2006. That guitar is ace.



these guitars had terrible neck pocket issues man.


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## Rook (Jun 27, 2011)

Godin parts are done in Canada, and they're made in the US of A according the the headstocks.


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## yingmin (Jun 27, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> Godin parts are done in Canada, and they're made in the US of A according the the headstocks.



Weird. I've never noticed that, an I don't get why they'd do it.


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## engage757 (Jun 28, 2011)

this is funny. Alder is one of the most common woods on the planet. they are all cut by a CNC machine, outfitted with Overseas hardware and mass produced electronics. but if you like it, then you like it! Who cares what anyone else thinks?


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## Church2224 (Jun 28, 2011)

No guitar is really made anywhere, same with any product today really. 

The wood could be from The USA, Honduras, Madacascar, 
Hardware from Germany, Japan, Korea, or China
Pickups from European Nations like , the US, Japan, China,
Other parts can be 

My summary on guitar building is as follows

1. I do not care where it was made as long as it is good. I mean I am more right wing conservative and love my country as much as anyone else, well anyone else like me lol, but the whole "buying American" thing to me means nothing. Granted I will take a USA Jackson over a lot of other guitar out there, but I will never decline the quality of or even decline buying from companies like Mayones, Caparison, ESP, Ibanez, ect just bcause they are not American. Hell our military uses weapons, tank parts, ect. made, or at least designed by foreign companies. If our men and women in uniform defend our nation with foreign designed weapons then I guess we ow these companies our thanks. It is a global economy now. 
2. Whether mass produced in a factory or hand built buy a luthier I could care less. If it is a good guitar then it is a good guitar. 
3. Do not care what anyone else thinks. It is YOUR guitar it only matters to you what you think of it. You like Fender Fine, you like Bernie Rico Jr. Fine, You like Jackson, ESP, Ibanez, Schecter, Mayones, Caparison, honestly who should give a shit but you? As long as you are happy with it then that is fine. Hell if it a cheap Squire and you think it is the only guitar you need more power to you. You do not dump a cute girl because she does not look like Megan Fox do you? As long as you are happy why should it matter.

I got links of about 50 manufacturers, luthiers and custom shops on my Bookmarks list, just shows you how diverse and varying my guitar interest is.....

But this is just me, you may think different, and that;s K with me


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## samu (Jun 28, 2011)

My first guitar ever was a Strat. Even though I've owned other guitars after that, the Strat has pretty much become an extension of my hand and I will NEVER EVER sell it!


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## engage757 (Jun 28, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> No guitar is really made anywhere, same with any product today really.
> 
> The wood could be from The USA, Honduras, Madacascar,
> Hardware from Germany, Japan, Korea, or China
> ...





Agreed with this statement, although I think Megan Fox is nasty. 

The main issue is that so many people care about a Name now-a-days, that these large corporations are taking advantage of it. Fender outsources TONS of stuff now-a-days. Just because that Mexican Alder is cut by a CNC machine in this country, outfitted with Asian Hardware and put with outsourced electronics (Read, Mexican) doesn't matter anymore, because they are assemble here. Awhile ago there was pictures online of the Fender Baja plant, and in the pictures there are string through body Jazz bass bodies in piles on a table. At the time there was no bass offered with string through that was not American. Fender is a nasty corporation that profits off of third-world countries. 

Before I go off on a tangent, understand that what Church says is the bottom-line. If you like it, then play it. Don't be concerned about where it is made. A guitar is not a status symbol. Where it is made doesn't matter. As a studio/live session bassist, I can tell you I have been SCHOOLED in bass playing by guys playing Fodera, and guys playing Warwick, and Squire. I am no slouch on the bass, but the point is made. Play what works for you. Great musicians make the instrument, not the other way around.


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## MFB (Jun 28, 2011)

My incoming NGD might also help my opinion that Fender does make good guitars


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## Mordacain (Jun 28, 2011)

Opion said:


> I've played some beautiful Strats, and some not-so-hot ones. I owned an American Deluxe Strat from 2001 that had amazing tone, beautiful cleans and that classic Fender single-coil sound, it was just too bright for my tastes (Ash body + Maple neck/fretboard, go figure eh?), so I sold it. I almost don't even bother picking up any non-US Fenders anymore because they just don't have that feel.
> 
> I do agree with The Armada though, G&L's are the shit, as are old pre-Jackson buyout Fenders.



I had a 2009 American Standard in Sienna Sunburst that I LOVED the neck on. I loved the color too but it had a multipart body with a terrible seam, completely unmatched grain. I also couldn't tame the super-trebly bridge pickup. Granted, I know a lot more about tweaking strats no then I did when I first purchased that one and I might have been able to tame it.

I kind wish I'd kept it just for that fantastic neck.


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## Church2224 (Jun 28, 2011)

engage757 said:


> Agreed with this statement, although I think Megan Fox is nasty.
> 
> The main issue is that so many people care about a Name now-a-days, that these large corporations are taking advantage of it. Fender outsources TONS of stuff now-a-days. Just because that Mexican Alder is cut by a CNC machine in this country, outfitted with Asian Hardware and put with outsourced electronics (Read, Mexican) doesn't matter anymore, because they are assemble here. Awhile ago there was pictures online of the Fender Baja plant, and in the pictures there are string through body Jazz bass bodies in piles on a table. At the time there was no bass offered with string through that was not American. Fender is a nasty corporation that profits off of third-world countries.
> 
> Before I go off on a tangent, understand that what Church says is the bottom-line. If you like it, then play it. Don't be concerned about where it is made. A guitar is not a status symbol. Where it is made doesn't matter. As a studio/live session bassist, I can tell you I have been SCHOOLED in bass playing by guys playing Fodera, and guys playing Warwick, and Squire. I am no slouch on the bass, but the point is made. Play what works for you. Great musicians make the instrument, not the other way around.




lol I will admit that I think the new girl they got for Transformers is WAY hotter than Megan Fox, although I do think Megan is still hot, which is weird since I like brunettes more the blondes....

I will say though that for fact my Jackson SL2H was made in the Corona Plant. Not buy the same people of course, but you got to go through the whole Fender buyout process of obtaining Jackson for that. Long story and I would be getting off tangent. Fender has been doing some better managements and production procedures over the last few years. Although we do not see it, the company has changed a lot. And I think they did good for Jackson and Charvel. Contrary to popular belief Fender really has not much to do with Jackson. Jackson choose to go with Fender because Fender has the most dealers out of any guitar builder in the world. So as a result Jackson thought that they could gain more popularity through more dealers. What Fender did was raise the salary of the Custom Shop Workers, moved them to the Corona Plant, and told them that whatever they needed it will be given to them. If Mike Shannon is still in charge and the master builder then that is good enough for me. My dream- be building Soloists for Jackson in the custom shop.


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## Dopey Trout (Jun 29, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> .....I think you missed my point...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The thing is, the violin market is intrinsically tied to classical music. The violin market is therefore tied to classical opinions and specifications. You see the same in the classical guitar market. 95% of classical guitars share a very similar spec, and it's because classical music is taught in a very specific way, with little room for idiosyncrasy and individuality (by and large). As such, players are brought up with a very specific set of things they understand and are used to.

Guitar is not the same, it's picked up by many different kinds of people, using many different kinds of instruments, creating their own preferences over time and having opinions instilled by teachers who have their own idiosyncrasies.

The market for multispecc'd guitars is self fulfilling, the more choice, the more players, the more diversity, the more choice etc..., this isn't the case in violins


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## Rook (Jun 29, 2011)

Dopey Trout said:


> The thing is, the violin market is intrinsically tied to classical music. The violin market is therefore tied to classical opinions and specifications. You see the same in the classical guitar market. 95% of classical guitars share a very similar spec, and it's because classical music is taught in a very specific way, with little room for idiosyncrasy and individuality (by and large). As such, players are brought up with a very specific set of things they understand and are used to.
> 
> Guitar is not the same, it's picked up by many different kinds of people, using many different kinds of instruments, creating their own preferences over time and having opinions instilled by teachers who have their own idiosyncrasies.
> 
> The market for multispecc'd guitars is self fulfilling, the more choice, the more players, the more diversity, the more choice etc..., this isn't the case in violins



All I said was:



Fun111 said:


> When it all comes down to it, *IF* only one type of guitar existed (like violins), above everything else *I* would want it to be a strat.



I wasn't making any comparison in my initial point, lol. What you've quoted is me saying (in brief) "the violin market doesn't vary like the guitar market" - with no claims as to why. When I mention the variety in guitars it's because in my above quoted comment I implied there was only one kind of violin. When somebody posted a variant, I replied that compared to hundreds of the same style violins and one or two makers of different instruments the guitar market is vastly more varied, justifying my initial (above quoted) comment.

  

Shit's getting complicated!

I know plenty about the guitar and violin markets, my statements are merely rhetoric; stop calling me up on it people, you all know exactly what I mean


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## Dopey Trout (Jun 29, 2011)

I wasn't really arguing against your initial point, I love Fenders. I was just stating why your argument had any justification because it is interesting to note


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## Rook (Jun 29, 2011)

Dopey Trout said:


> I wasn't really arguing against your initial point, I love Fenders. I was just stating why your argument had any justification because it is interesting to note



In that case, I love you and we should have beer.


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## Bekanor (Jun 30, 2011)

I have a 2011 USA Standard Strat, bang for buck the best guitar I own.

Not too hard on the eyes either.


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## Rook (Jun 30, 2011)

^I almost bought that exact guitar (optionswise) earlier this year from the shop I worked at but the dude that owned the shop took it home before I could. 

I couldn't believe it!

Looks great though, I love the maple on the Standards.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jun 30, 2011)

I really want a teal stained strat now


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## Bekanor (Jun 30, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> ^I almost bought that exact guitar (optionswise) earlier this year from the shop I worked at but the dude that owned the shop took it home before I could.
> 
> I couldn't believe it!
> 
> Looks great though, I love the maple on the Standards.



It's all about maple on strats and teles for me, rosewood just looks dull.


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## OlisDead (Jun 30, 2011)

I like to use Fenders in the studio for some sounds but I'm not a fan of Fender at all.


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## anne (Jun 30, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> lol I will admit that I think the new girl they got for Transformers is WAY hotter than Megan Fox, although I do think Megan is still hot, which is weird since I like brunettes more the blondes....



Uh, she's deeper in the uncanny valley than those robots, and like two years away from becoming the new Jocelyn Wildenstein (google it). Mega ew.

Anyway, Fenders are f'ing great!


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## Andromalia (Jun 30, 2011)

There are actually many types of violins. A baritone violin is called a viola, but it exists.  Not all violin dimensions are the same, either.


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## Rook (Jun 30, 2011)

Andromalia said:


> There are actually many types of violins. A baritone violin is called a viola, but it exists.  Not all violin dimensions are the same, either.



And a really big viola is called a Violoncello

hoodathunkit?


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## GuitaristOfHell (Jun 30, 2011)

If they hate they've never played a USA strat. I love those, great tone, and craftsmanship into everyone of them.


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## engage757 (Jun 30, 2011)

GuitaristOfHell said:


> they hate because they've played a Suhr, Anderson, Sadowsky, Gruhn or Crook strat. I love those, great tone, and craftsmanship into everyone of them.



^ fixed it for ya. 

Assembly line, CNC-machined bodies, Cheap electronics and imported asian hardware with miserable quality control. 

The bottom line is, if you like it then play it, but a MYRIAD of players know that Fender is done better by A LOT of companies. I was endorsed by Fender for bass. Good solid basses. But then you play a Lakland or a Sadowsky. BLOWS it away. Even the import Skyline Series Lakland basses blow away the USA Fenders. Still, I got a good Fender Jazz Bass out of the deal that is still in my gig rag today. When you are dealing with any mass-produced instrument, quality control goes down.


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## Church2224 (Jun 30, 2011)

engage757 said:


> ^ fixed it for ya.
> 
> Assembly line, CNC-machined bodies, Cheap electronics and imported asian hardware with miserable quality control.
> 
> The bottom line is, if you like it then play it, but a MYRIAD of players know that Fender is done better by A LOT of companies. I was endorsed by Fender for bass. Good solid basses. But then you play a Lakland or a Sadowsky. BLOWS it away. Even the import Skyline Series Lakland basses blow away the USA Fenders. Still, I got a good Fender Jazz Bass out of the deal that is still in my gig rag today. When you are dealing with any mass-produced instrument, quality control goes down.



Miserable quality control..... Are you sure you aren not talking about Gibson?

Every USA Fender I have played has been top notch in terms of quality control... no finish flaws, electronics work fine good fret work, and pretty much the majority of this thread has proven that....I would honestly take a USA strat over a Suhr C1 because the Suhr is pretty much the same thing just twice the price and Suhrs and Tom Anderson are in fact CNC'd guitars....I would buy a Suhr Custom shop models if I wanted a custom model though, and a USA Jackson Soloist over a Suhr Pro Series M due to more features for the money... but that is just me...

But even at times quality can be subjective. Like for me I view anything Like Carvin, Ibanez Prestige, USA Fender, ESP Standard Series and Jackson USA Models to be top notch, sure some models slip with problems but no matter what is made, from cars to guitars to electronics, that happens, human nature. Now Anything custom like Suhr, Tom Anderson, Bernie Roc Jr, ect. is in the "Holy F***ing shit this is awesome range." But at the same time Jackson, ESP, Ibanez and Fender have everything I need, why would I need more?

In the words of my doctor, " No matter what has ever been made some one is going to hate it, it is just human nature. Just like what you like and don't' care about anyone else."


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## Church2224 (Jun 30, 2011)

GuitaristOfHell said:


> If they hate they've never played a USA strat. I love those, great tone, and craftsmanship into everyone of them.




Agreed I have never played a bad USA strat.


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## GuitaristOfHell (Jun 30, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Agreed I have never played a bad USA strat.


I would sell my amp rig for one! My friends USA strat makes me want to cry when I hold it. Why? because it feels and sounds soo beautiful...and it's not mine . Pop HSS configuration in there with a maple fretboard and you have a damn nice instrument.


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## elq (Jun 30, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> ...I would honestly take a USA strat over a Suhr C1 because the Suhr is pretty much the same thing just twice the price and Suhrs and Tom Anderson are in fact CNC'd guitars....I would buy a Suhr Custom shop models if I wanted a custom model though...



AFAIK (and John Suhr has said as much) the Suhr "pro" models are made in the exact same manner as the custom models, the only difference is they have fewer options. I own two Suhr moderns, one pro one custom. The pro is just as well made as the custom.

I just bought a MIA strat and its a great guitar - but the fit and finish of my 2x the cost Suhr is FAR superior.


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## Church2224 (Jun 30, 2011)

elq said:


> AFAIK (and John Suhr has said as much) the Suhr "pro" models are made in the exact same manner as the custom models, the only difference is they have fewer options. I own two Suhr moderns, one pro one custom. The pro is just as well made as the custom.
> 
> I just bought a MIA strat and its a great guitar - but the fit and finish of my 2x the cost Suhr is FAR superior.



This is true. I would honestly love an S5, but for me if I was going to get a Suhr, I would want the works like a Flame Top, Floyd Rose, and a few other things.


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## GuitaristOfHell (Jun 30, 2011)

elq said:


> AFAIK (and John Suhr has said as much) the Suhr "pro" models are made in the exact same manner as the custom models, the only difference is they have fewer options. I own two Suhr moderns, one pro one custom. The pro is just as well made as the custom.
> 
> I just bought a MIA strat and its a great guitar - but the fit and finish of my *2x the cost Suhr is FAR superior.
> *


 2x the cost though.


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## technomancer (Jun 30, 2011)

GuitaristOfHell said:


> 2x the cost though.



9 times out of 10 you get what you pay for 

Generally USA strats are nice guitars, I've owned a couple... but recently they've been suffering price creep in a big way, and as the USA Deluxe creeps closer to the price of a Suhr Standard they become less of a value than they used to be IMHO


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## elq (Jun 30, 2011)

GuitaristOfHell said:


> 2x the cost though.





I'm not going to argue about cost/value. Everyone has their own cost/value scale. 

The big things that I like about my Suhr compared to my new Fender are -

* Stainless frets.
* Great hardware (bridge & tuners).
* Great pickups...
* Absolutely PERFECT frets.
* Very resonant wood.
* Neck pockets that don't suffer from corner cracks.

Different strokes for different folks.


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## GuitaristOfHell (Jun 30, 2011)

technomancer said:


> 9 times out of 10 you get what you pay for


That's what I'm saying though. It's 2x the cost so the fit and finish will be better.


elq said:


> I'm not going to argue about cost/value. Everyone has their own cost/value scale.
> 
> The big things that I like about my Suhr compared to my new Fender are -
> 
> ...


Didn't intend to argue. Frets on a Suhr are amazing.


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## Church2224 (Jun 30, 2011)

elq said:


> I'm not going to argue about cost/value. Everyone has their own cost/value scale.
> 
> The big things that I like about my Suhr compared to my new Fender are -
> 
> ...



Suhrs Fret are guitar secks


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## WickedSymphony (Jun 30, 2011)

technomancer said:


> Generally USA strats are nice guitars, I've owned a couple... but recently they've been suffering price creep in a big way, and as the USA Deluxe creeps closer to the price of a Suhr Standard they become less of a value than they used to be IMHO



I agree. I got mine back in '04 when the American Deluxe cost something like $1k new before tax. Nowadays they're about 1.5x that price. I haven't played many of the newer ones, but I think mine is just as nice compared to the ones I have played so the price increase definitely pushes me away from buying another new one. 

At least the quality is still great on them though. I've yet to play a dud American Deluxe Strat.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 1, 2011)

technomancer said:


> Generally USA strats are nice guitars, I've owned a couple... but recently they've been suffering price creep in a big way, and as the USA Deluxe creeps closer to the price of a Suhr Standard they become less of a value than they used to be IMHO


 
Is it just a strat thing? The American teles are still the same price they were when I bought mine five years ago, give or take $100 depending on finish.


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## engage757 (Jul 1, 2011)

Church2224 said:


> Agreed I have never played a bad USA strat.



how many have you played though bro?


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## engage757 (Jul 1, 2011)

technomancer said:


> 9 times out of 10 you get what you pay for
> 
> Generally USA strats are nice guitars, I've owned a couple... but recently they've been suffering price creep in a big way, and as the USA Deluxe creeps closer to the price of a Suhr Standard they become less of a value than they used to be IMHO



I agree. You used to be able to buy an American Fender for a grand and a mexican for $300. Like 5-7 years ago. Now they outsource more, produce more, more is automated, and they cost $4-500 more.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 1, 2011)

engage757 said:


> I agree. You used to be able to buy an American Fender for a grand and a mexican for $300. Like 5-7 years ago. Now they outsource more, produce more, more is automated, and they cost $4-500 more.


 


Fender American Standard Stratocaster Electric Guitar: Shop Guitars & Other Musical Instruments | Musician&#39;s Friend


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## Church2224 (Jul 1, 2011)

engage757 said:


> how many have you played though bro?




lol I cannot remember. There is a dealer in the town next to mine I always go to and play them. Never have a bad one there. At a guitar center where I used to lived I played a few there. On the top of my head about.....20 or so at that store, maybe more. They always had like 10 off the rack. It was right next to my high school so access to them was easy.


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## WickedSymphony (Jul 1, 2011)

^ Same here, among various trips to local shops and Guitar Centers and various friends' Strats over the years I must have played 15 or more American strats and I've yet to play a bad one. Mexican ones are usually decent for the price point too but they're definitely not as consistently well made. That's to be expected though.


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## brutalwizard (Jul 1, 2011)

fenders are neat


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## ghost2II2 (Jul 1, 2011)

Are you kidding me? I love my Strat! It's an 86 and it's still my No. 1. If is they're good enough for David Gilmour, then they're good enough for me.


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## Andromalia (Jul 1, 2011)

No USA model with: 

-HSS
-Maple board
-White finish
-white pickguard.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 1, 2011)

Andromalia said:


> No USA model with:
> 
> -HSS
> -Maple board
> ...


 
I'm pretty sure the American Standard is routed H/H/H, so you could get one then get an HSS pickguard and humbucker separately.


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## MFB (Jul 1, 2011)

Ya, I thought the Americans were just routed swimming pool style so you could use any pickup config. you wanted?


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## Curt (Jul 1, 2011)

I have a 1984 MIJ Strat. I love that guitar, I am GAS'ing for an American Standard strat in charcoal metallic or whatever they call that finish with a rosewood fretboard. Amazing guitars.

G&L's are also amazing.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 2, 2011)

MFB said:


> Ya, I thought the Americans were just routed swimming pool style so you could use any pickup config. you wanted?


 
They routed them swimming pool style for a few years, but I think they switched to HHH (or maybe HSH?) because of people complaining about how having that much wood routed out was affecting their tone. Don't quote me on that, though.


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## yingmin (Jul 2, 2011)

Andromalia said:


> No USA model with:
> 
> -HSS
> -Maple board
> ...



The American Deluxe comes in either Blizzard or Olympic Pearl, so a pickguard swap would be a very minor fix to have the guitar you want. If you want flat white, though, you are indeed out of luck.


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## ittoa666 (Jul 2, 2011)

ROAR said:


> If Fender didn't make good guitars why would John Mayer, David Gilmour,
> Jeff Beck, John 5, and Eric Johnson play them?
> 
> People like to hate on everything. "Fender don't make all black
> ...









Absolutely sexy.


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## Curt (Jul 2, 2011)

ittoa666 said:


> Absolutely sexy.



Damn you David Gilmour, and your stunning taste in guitars. D:


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## Rook (Jul 2, 2011)

I really don't get people hating on CNC'd bodies...

It's like 'amp elitists' that moan about PCB's, there's a bigger picture.



Ah well, I love my Fender, I played some Tom Anderson, Suhr and got offered some jaw-dropping trade deals on some but went for a strat, because the Andes and Suhrs aren't stratty strats, they're supposed to be an improvement. This is all down to taste, of course it is, but if price wasn't an issue I'd still take my strat. Sure there are some Suhrs or Andes that I prefer to some strats, but mine suits me better.


Needs new pickups though, I'm bored of mine and want something a little more frightening. All the hardware and electrics are USA made though in contrast to whoever said otherwise


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## Murmel (Jul 2, 2011)

A Fender strat with a maple neck/fretboad, alder body, HSS setup, vintage trem, jumbo frets and 22 of them.....
Regardless of finish, I'd be all over it.

A sculpted heel would be nice too, but we all know that won't happen 



Church2224 said:


> No guitar is really made anywhere, same with any product today really.
> 
> The wood could be from The USA, Honduras, Madacascar,
> Hardware from Germany, Japan, Korea, or China
> Pickups from European Nations like , the US, Japan, China,


Last time I checked, Europe is not the US, Japan or China


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## snowblind56 (Jul 2, 2011)

engage757 said:


> I agree. You used to be able to buy an American Fender for a grand and a mexican for $300. Like 5-7 years ago. Now they outsource more, produce more, more is automated, and they cost $4-500 more.



Isn't this the same thing that people are bitching about Ibanez, Jackson, and just about every other guitar company? 

5-7 years ago, the RG1527 cost $599. Now they are what, $1300 for the same exact guitar? RG1570's were also around $599, now I think they are $1049 or Jackson DK2's were around $425 then, now $699. At least Jackson started putting Seymour Duncans as stock pickups and putting black hardware on instead of the cheesy chrome hardware that they were using.

The thing that pisses me off is that because Mexican Strats are $450 now, people think that they can sell their pre-2000 Mexi-Strat for $350 or more when they didn't cost that much new.


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## Rook (Jul 2, 2011)

That's the economy and inflation for you. The US Economy has inflated massively over the last 7 years, as have the Japanese and Chinese Economies, and the inflation doesn't just add on to the sale price, the makers are paying more for their parts and labour (before inflation) as just a number, so their costs are up _and_ the price they're selling for has to be inflation adjusted on top of the new, higher price. 

Sure a dude will sell his $300 Mexi for $350 used, but he can get the same with that $350 as he would have been able to with $225 8 years ago or whatever. Maybe there's a little price increase on top, but you don't have to look beyond the list of businesses (including the Music shop I used to work for) to realise these people aren't just pocketing the difference...

Ibanez unfortunately have a habit of using 'introductory prices' so you can't gauge the value based on the first few years of production, they're released cheaper, massively so, and when they've developed a base, they push prices, recent examples being the Prestige RGD's or the RG2228.

The $1000 mark isn't the same mark as it was 20 years ago say. £1000 here in the UK 20 years ago would get you a brand new JEM, a Les Paul Standard or a Reissue (USA) Strat...


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## MFB (Jul 2, 2011)

Yup, just got the new guitar, and Fender does make good guitars


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## yingmin (Jul 2, 2011)

To put price creep into perspective, this is a Gibson price list from 1959:






Notice that, for example, a Les Paul Custom cost $395, just over a TENTH of what they sell for now. Most of the people on these forums have only seen one, maybe two noticeable price increases in their lifetimes, but I talk to customers who can remember buying an American Strat or a Les Paul or a Rickenbacker back in the 60s and 70s for only a couple hundred bucks. While a nearly ten-fold increase in price might sound stunning, it would actually be more surprising if prices DIDN'T increase that much in the span of 40-50 years. Those increases were rarely sudden, and certainly didn't happen all at once. Every few years, they'd go up a little bit, same as any other product. Paying a few hundred dollars more for a guitar than you would have last year sounds like a shitty deal, but it's inevitable. On the other hand, the minimum wage in my state has gone up almost $3 since 1999.


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## Bekanor (Jul 2, 2011)

Murmel said:


> A Fender strat with a maple neck/fretboad, alder body, HSS setup, vintage trem, jumbo frets and 22 of them.....
> Regardless of finish, I'd be all over it.
> 
> A sculpted heel would be nice too, but we all know that won't happen



The American Deluxe strats have had a contoured heel since 2002. It's not AANJ sculpted but it's an effort. Personally I like the chunky square heel, makes me have to work harder to get around on the higher frets, which in turn makes my playing sound better.


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## Rook (Jul 3, 2011)

yingmin said:


> To put price creep into perspective, this is a Gibson price list from 1959:
> 
> *pic*
> 
> Notice that, for example, a Les Paul Custom cost $395, just over a TENTH of what they sell for now. Most of the people on these forums have only seen one, maybe two noticeable price increases in their lifetimes, but I talk to customers who can remember buying an American Strat or a Les Paul or a Rickenbacker back in the 60s and 70s for only a couple hundred bucks. While a nearly ten-fold increase in price might sound stunning, it would actually be more surprising if prices DIDN'T increase that much in the span of 40-50 years. Those increases were rarely sudden, and certainly didn't happen all at once. Every few years, they'd go up a little bit, same as any other product. Paying a few hundred dollars more for a guitar than you would have last year sounds like a shitty deal, but it's inevitable. On the other hand, the minimum wage in my state has gone up almost $3 since 1999.



I agree but it's not just about expecting a price increase. In this country in the 50's, a pint of beer was about 10p, my dad was earning 20p a week in the early 70's, and around the 60's a top of the line Jaguar e type would cost you an amazing £400. Money is worth more than 10x LESS now because there's so much more of it!

Price increases are just numbers, compare it to things like minimum wage and the price of something like fuel (gas, whatever you call it) and alcohol, you'll get an interesting pattern...


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## Murmel (Jul 3, 2011)

Bekanor said:


> The American Deluxe strats have had a contoured heel since 2002. It's not AANJ sculpted but it's an effort. Personally I like the chunky square heel, makes me have to work harder to get around on the higher frets, which in turn makes my playing sound better.



I don't care if it's AANJ or not, just a little sculp and I'm fine. I've been playing block style heels for as long as I've played guitar, I've barely played anything that hasn't been a block heel


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## Rook (Jul 3, 2011)

I too have no objection to block heels, I actually quite like them and have never had any difficulty playing round them at all. Mind you my hands are quite big...

Even so, the heel has never been a deciding factor for me unless it's plain ridiculous.


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## Bekanor (Jul 3, 2011)

Murmel said:


> I don't care if it's AANJ or not, just a little sculp and I'm fine. I've been playing block style heels for as long as I've played guitar, I've barely played anything that hasn't been a block heel









Looks well comfy, though I have pretty big hands so heels and things like that only bother me if I think about them too much instead of just adapting to the guitar as a whole. I find small cutaways get in my way more than any heel I've ever played though even that is just a case of adjusting my style a bit, which I'm finding is a really good thing these days. Obviously you want a certain level of consistency in your stage guitars but outside of that I like that my hands are kept guessing, it leads to creative new ways to arrange things and even some happy accidents that I've had that have turned into awesome ideas.


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## engage757 (Jul 3, 2011)

ROAR said:


> If Fender didn't make good guitars why would John Mayer, David Gilmour,
> Jeff Beck, John 5, and Eric Johnson play them?
> 
> People like to hate on everything. "Fender don't make all black
> ...



THe answer to this is simple. Do you have ANY idea how much money Fender throws at these artists? Just to play their guitars and then make signature series off. If you were John Mayer you would take all that money and free Custom Shop Guitar subscriptions too. THe exposure for being a main Fender Artist is absurd. And of course, they are playing handbuilt custom shop fenders too, for free, that never hurts.


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## Andromalia (Jul 4, 2011)

I think David Gilmour woudn't have any issue paying his guitars. When you get them for free, it's not usually you who gain but the builder.


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## McBrain (Jul 4, 2011)

I have major Gas for one of the new MIJ Pawn Shop series Mustangs. I love the slightly modified body shape. This is the way a Mustang should have looked from the beginning.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 4, 2011)

My friend's dad has a sunburst US Strat Plus, and it's hands down one of the best Fenders I've ever played. 

I still intend to get myself a good Strat and a nice white maple board Tele as well.


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## Bekanor (Jul 4, 2011)

Has anyone has any experience with a hot rails in the bridge of a strat? 

I have the the Malmsteen SD in the bridge of mine at the moment but while I love that fact that it's instantly Yngwie, that sound doesn't work for basically anything else I like to play on my strat. I definitely want to keep it SSS (I'm all about classic strat looks) but a high output bridge humbucker is my bread and butter.

I've done some reading but I can't really get consensus that I trust on whether I can get proper humbucker sounds from a single coil sized pickup or not.


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## SirMyghin (Jul 4, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I too have no objection to block heels, I actually quite like them and have never had any difficulty playing round them at all. Mind you my hands are quite big...
> 
> Even so, the heel has never been a deciding factor for me unless it's plain ridiculous.



Wouldn't call my hands big but block heels don't bother me at all either. More like my palms are big really. I think it is more of a familiarity thing. All the Ibby kids just look at the heel and then dismiss it, or don't play it enough to get used to it and realize it isn't really an issue. This ofcourse caused a trend that started all companies alterring their heels to some extent (except G&L, they still haven't). I have never met a guitar the heel was the stopping factor for access.


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## Murmel (Jul 4, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Wouldn't call my hands big but block heels don't bother me at all either. More like my palms are big really. I think it is more of a familiarity thing. All the Ibby kids just look at the heel and then dismiss it, or don't play it enough to get used to it and realize it isn't really an issue. This ofcourse caused a trend that started all companies alterring their heels to some extent (except G&L, they still haven't). I have never met a guitar the heel was the stopping factor for access.



I guess everyone thinks I'm an Ibanez whore now just because I started talking about it 
For some reason, the bolts on Fenders in particular bother me more than others. My Schecter also has a block bolt, but doesn't bother me nearly as much


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## yingmin (Jul 4, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> I agree but it's not just about expecting a price increase. In this country in the 50's, a pint of beer was about 10p, my dad was earning 20p a week in the early 70's, and around the 60's a top of the line Jaguar e type would cost you an amazing £400. Money is worth more than 10x LESS now because there's so much more of it!
> 
> Price increases are just numbers, compare it to things like minimum wage and the price of something like fuel (gas, whatever you call it) and alcohol, you'll get an interesting pattern...



Yes, that's exactly the point I was making. The number of dollars/pounds/whatever you spend on a guitar has gone uP substantially, but the actual price, relative to what your currency is worth, is roughly the same.


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## SirMyghin (Jul 4, 2011)

Murmel said:


> I guess everyone thinks I'm an Ibanez whore now just because I started talking about it
> For some reason, the bolts on Fenders in particular bother me more than others. My Schecter also has a block bolt, but doesn't bother me nearly as much



With fenders, and even my G&L, what I notice is that it is the lower horn that is too tight, and that I need to work around.


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## Vairish (Jul 4, 2011)

Personally I love a good Strat. Here's a not so great pic of one of my babys, it looks a lot nicer in the flesh:






It has a sculpted heel joint, an extremely fast neck, dual dimarzio evolutions, locking tuners, hipshot bridge, a 5 way switch for series/parallel combos and push/pull tone pots to coil tap their respective humbucker. Its such a versatile intrument and one of two guitars that I own that I can never see myself parting with.


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## Mordacain (Jul 4, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> With fenders, and even my G&L, what I notice is that it is the lower horn that is too tight, and that I need to work around.



Agreed. If the lower horn was just slightly roomier, the heel would very likely not be an issue at all.

However, I will say the slight amount of sculpting on the Fender American Deluxe's does help pretty substantially with the lower horn. 

This new Copper Burst color is fueling some serious GAS for me:


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## Bekanor (Jul 4, 2011)

I love Sweetwater, they always have the best pictures of their stock.

And they're awesome cats to deal with.


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## Curt (Jul 4, 2011)

Bekanor said:


> I love Sweetwater, they always have the best pictures of their stock.
> 
> And they're awesome cats to deal with.



That's where I got my roadster cab.


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## SirMyghin (Jul 5, 2011)

Mordacain said:


> Agreed. If the lower horn was just slightly roomier, the heel would very likely not be an issue at all.



That horn does look a lot roomier than my ASAT for sure. If it wasn't sure an amazing sounding and playing guitar the horn might bother me a little , but we get used to these things. The copper burst is really nice too, I am a sucker for metallic/pearl finishes.


----------

