# Dunable quietly announces an import series



## FrashyFroo (Nov 2, 2020)

https://dunableguitars.com/pages/de-series

It's just R2s and Cyclopses so far but I'm pretty stoked. 

The website has gotten a big update. There's also humbuckers in Jazzmaster housings, bass pickups, new prizes for custom shop guitars,...


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## Blasphemer (Nov 2, 2020)

WELP. Time to finally get an R2.


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## Masoo2 (Nov 2, 2020)

Oh hell yeah I've wanted a Cyclops for a LONG time

Just hope they have some in non-glossy finishes, a big attraction to Dunable for me was their worn-looking matte finishes with aged hardware


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## sleewell (Nov 2, 2020)

make a 7 string!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## metaljohn (Nov 2, 2020)

Finally, an R2 I can afford. Will definitely be grabbing one when they're available


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## secretpizza (Nov 2, 2020)

sleewell said:


> make a 7 string!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



They actually have in the past and they look incredible. They also have some 8 string pickups for sale. I’m sure it’d take longer to get ready but their build quality is incredible.


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## budda (Nov 2, 2020)

Import R2?

Dont need, totally want.


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## Mathemagician (Nov 2, 2020)

And the conservative “let me just hold off” decision pays off again!


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## budda (Nov 2, 2020)

Mathemagician said:


> And the conservative “let me just hold off” decision pays off again!



I mean, a usa model is gonna be a good time.


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## Mathemagician (Nov 2, 2020)

budda said:


> I mean, a usa model is gonna be a good time.



I’ve decided on nothing yet. And since I wanted a P90 SG, the USA may still get my attention. The worn hardware and pickups is very unique. I got time.


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## JD27 (Nov 3, 2020)

Damn, a lower priced R2 would be sick.


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## Hoss632 (Nov 3, 2020)

I'll wait to see what the pricing is before i make a decision.


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## Carl Kolchak (Nov 3, 2020)

Mathemagician said:


> I’ve decided on nothing yet. And since I wanted a P90 SG, the USA may still get my attention. The worn hardware and pickups is very unique. I got time.



"There's a time for livin'
But time keeps on flyin'"

For me, the whole idea of an import line sort of negates the charm of getting a Dunable you know Sacha worked on himself. Go for the MIA Cyclops with a P90. I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## budda (Nov 3, 2020)

Carl Kolchak said:


> "There's a time for livin'
> But time keeps on flyin'"
> 
> For me, the whole idea of an import line sort of negates the charm of getting a Dunable you know Sacha worked on himself. Go for the MIA Cyclops with a P90. I don't think you'll be disappointed.



Budgets are a real thing though.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 3, 2020)

JD27 said:


> Damn, a lower priced R2 would be sick.



I'm in a Dunable fan group that Sacha's a part of on facebook and he's given a bit more info since I started this thread. R2s will be 999.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 3, 2020)

Hoss632 said:


> I'll wait to see what the pricing is before i make a decision.



Prices are 899 for the Cyclops and 999 for the R2 according to Sacha himself. Dunable pickups, locking tuners and a hardshell case will be extra.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 3, 2020)

metaljohn said:


> Finally, an R2 I can afford. Will definitely be grabbing one when they're available



They'll be available for pre-order in a week or two.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 3, 2020)

Masoo2 said:


> Oh hell yeah I've wanted a Cyclops for a LONG time
> 
> Just hope they have some in non-glossy finishes, a big attraction to Dunable for me was their worn-looking matte finishes with aged hardware



It's just the four models you can see in the image on the site for now. Hoping for more finish options in the future.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 3, 2020)

These are made at WMI by the way.


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## possumkiller (Nov 3, 2020)

Where do they get those wonderful knobs?


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## dmlinger (Nov 3, 2020)

Love everything about Dunable except the TOM bridges. The USA models are still an amazing price compared to others in their space. These imports will sell well, too. Kudos to Sacha!


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## xwmucradiox (Nov 3, 2020)

possumkiller said:


> Where do they get those wonderful knobs?



https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetai...witch/PKS1106B1-4?qs=qdcK1TUmM6vbEyrIM5CwGQ==


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## slan (Nov 3, 2020)

YES. I've been waiting for this. I owned a Yarnhawk a few years ago and I've been kicking myself for selling it ever since.


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## cwhitey2 (Nov 3, 2020)

TAKE MY MONEY!


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## stevexc (Nov 3, 2020)

Well it's a good thing I just learned my old guitarist runs the only (afaik) Dunable dealer in Canada.


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## budda (Nov 3, 2020)

stevexc said:


> Well it's a good thing I just learned my old guitarist runs the only (afaik) Dunable dealer in Canada.



You know him?

The cyclops he has in looks sweet, but Ive never tried the trapeze bridge in person. I also dont have 4k haha.


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## Masoo2 (Nov 3, 2020)

$899 for the Cyclops?

Even with a glossy finish, that's not bad at all for what it is.

Seriously considering one of these.


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## stevexc (Nov 3, 2020)

budda said:


> You know him?
> 
> The cyclops he has in looks sweet, but Ive never tried the trapeze bridge in person. I also dont have 4k haha.



Assuming I'm right and Northerner's the only dealer, yeah, Joel played guitar in my first "serious" band way back. We've lost touch since then but I've seen his posts on the local buy and sell.


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## budda (Nov 3, 2020)

stevexc said:


> Assuming I'm right and Northerner's the only dealer, yeah, Joel played guitar in my first "serious" band way back. We've lost touch since then but I've seen his posts on the local buy and sell.



Ya fairly sure its just them.

Wouldnt be mad if the boutique carrier an hour away (im talking 14k guitars ive never heard of) started carrying them too.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 3, 2020)

stevexc said:


> Well it's a good thing I just learned my old guitarist runs the only (afaik) Dunable dealer in Canada.



Northerner guitars! Those Star Wars themed Asteroids and Cyclopses were pretty neat. Didn't really feel the Vader ones but the Stormtrooper Cyclops looked really cool. 

From what I've heard, the DE guitars will only be available direct from Dunable for now. If they do well, dealers may eventually get them too.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 3, 2020)

Masoo2 said:


> $899 for the Cyclops?
> 
> Even with a glossy finish, that's not bad at all for what it is.
> 
> Seriously considering one of these.



Satin vs gloss doesn't make much of a difference to the price, does it? If we eventually see more finish options, I suppose those may well be more money. 

Anyway, I agree these seem like really decent value. I was expecting these to be around 1200 myself. It doesn't hurt that they're a bit cheaper. Although, they may come to around that price if you add Dunable pickups and locking tuners.


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## Hoss632 (Nov 3, 2020)

The thing that is turning me away is the bridge on the Cyclips. I'd rather it just be a normal TOM with the stoptail like the R2's in the photo. Unless that's an option then nevermind lol.


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## broj15 (Nov 3, 2020)

Honestly surprised at how low the prices are on these. I expected them to be about $200 higher than that. I love the way Dunables look & the demos I've heard but I haven't gotten a chance to play one. This might give me a better shot at encountering one in the wild.


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## Mboogie7 (Nov 3, 2020)

Ooo, if they do any lefties of these, I think I just found my next purchase.


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## Carl Kolchak (Nov 4, 2020)

Hoss632 said:


> The thing that is turning me away is the bridge on the Cyclips. I'd rather it just be a normal TOM with the stoptail like the R2's in the photo. Unless that's an option then nevermind lol.


The trapeze tailpiece? Mine works just fine. No Complaints.


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## akinari (Nov 4, 2020)

I'd be so excited if I ever wanted to break my oath to not pay more than $500 for a guitar.


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## Carl Kolchak (Nov 4, 2020)

The real plus here isn't the availability of cheaper foreign-made copies, but the possibility that their availability will help shorten the waiting periods for the real MIA Dunables.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 4, 2020)

Hoss632 said:


> The thing that is turning me away is the bridge on the Cyclips. I'd rather it just be a normal TOM with the stoptail like the R2's in the photo. Unless that's an option then nevermind lol.



That's the design and that's how they've always made 'em. The trapeze is honestly part of the appeal. If you want bridge / tail piece options you're gonna have to go custom.


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## Carl Kolchak (Nov 4, 2020)

FrashyFroo said:


> That's the design and that's how they've always made 'em. The trapeze is honestly part of the appeal. If you want bridge / tail piece options you're gonna have to go custom.


From what I can tell, every order placed directly through Dunable is a custom order, as they very rarely ever seem to have any guitars in stock.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 4, 2020)

Carl Kolchak said:


> From what I can tell, every order placed directly through Dunable is a custom order, as they very rarely ever seem to have any guitars in stock.



The trapeze has always been standard on the Cyclops, which the website also states now. It's a big part of that model's aesthetic. You can of course get one with a stop tail. Bigsby and Mastery bridge are the other available options. But I'm sure he'd make you one with just about any bridge you want.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 4, 2020)

Sheeeit wanted a Hagstrom Fantomen. But hmmm...


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## Mathemagician (Nov 4, 2020)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sheeeit wanted a Hagstrom Fantomen. But hmmm...



I was eye-banging them too earlier this year.

But then SG gas hit and I waited. Now I must engage in the “weigh all options until I KNOW I’m buying what I want.

Personally HATE returning things, lol. (Just out of laziness, not including real issues) 

Glad to see they had enough demand for the USA line for this expansion too.


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## Carl Kolchak (Nov 5, 2020)

Mathemagician said:


> I was eye-banging them too earlier this year.
> 
> But then SG gas hit and I waited. Now I must engage in the “weigh all options until I KNOW I’m buying what I want.
> 
> ...


Such indecisiveness is unbecoming! And you know what's going to happen, right? That GAS is going to keep building up and building up, and one day it's going to explode! So unless you actually want to martyr yourself in the name of some six-string jihad you'd better exorcise that two-horned demon of yours and spec yourself out a real Dunable. I say this as a man who has owned and played a fair number of SGs over the years. So trust me when I tell you that Dunable makes a better SG than Gibson does today.


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## budda (Nov 5, 2020)

Carl Kolchak said:


> Such indecisiveness is unbecoming! And you know what's going to happen, right? That GAS is going to keep building up and building up, and one day it's going to explode! So unless you actually want to martyr yourself in the name of some six-string jihad you'd better exorcise that two-horned demon of yours and spec yourself out a real Dunable. I say this as a man who has owned and played a fair number of SGs over the years. So trust me when I tell you that Dunable makes a better SG than Gibson does today.



Or buy an import R2 + import cyclops + FM3 and get weird with it.


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## Carl Kolchak (Nov 5, 2020)

budda said:


> Or buy an import R2 + import cyclops + FM3 and get weird with it.


Three wrongs don't make a right.


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## budda (Nov 5, 2020)

Carl Kolchak said:


> Three wrongs don't make a right.



No wrongs found.


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## slan (Nov 10, 2020)

Preorders are up with early bird pricing:

https://dunable-de.com/collections/guitars


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## budda (Nov 10, 2020)

Those are hot.


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## slan (Nov 10, 2020)

budda said:


> Those are hot.



Definitely. If they announce a DE Yeti, I might have to spring for one.


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## efiltsohg (Nov 10, 2020)

anybody know the scoop on those "cthulhu" pickups? something wound at the factory I assume?

a5 magnet 12k/10k, likely similar to a direwolf set but less hot?


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## budda (Nov 10, 2020)

slan said:


> Definitely. If they announce a DE Yeti, I might have to spring for one.



The main things stopping me from the cyclops is the thinner neck and my ES335 GAS.


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## Blasphemer (Nov 10, 2020)

Did it. Picked up a sunburst Cyclops. If I dig it, I'll get an R2 later down the line. Now to wait for a few months!


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## possumkiller (Nov 10, 2020)

They should do a DE Asteroid. That would get me interested.


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## Bdtunn (Nov 10, 2020)

If they do these in a lefty im in!!


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## Zhysick (Nov 10, 2020)

OK, I am not into the RD shape, for real, but that R2 Matte Black is fucking sexy.


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## FrashyFroo (Nov 10, 2020)

efiltsohg said:


> anybody know the scoop on those "cthulhu" pickups? something wound at the factory I assume?
> 
> a5 magnet 12k/10k, likely similar to a direwolf set but less hot?



According to Sacha, they're close to Grizzleys, made in house at WMI.


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## metaljohn (Nov 10, 2020)

Side note, anybody want to buy my ESP Ltd AW-7 baritone so I can buy an R2?


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## Dabo Fett (Nov 10, 2020)

Figures, after years of wanting one I caved and ordered a custom cyclops last week, and immediately after they announced these. I was thinking of getting the de anyway as an appetizer, but fingers crossed if they stick to their current estimates build times my custom will arrive just after these start shipping. 
Spring can’t be here soon enough!


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## olejason (Nov 11, 2020)

Have they mentioned anywhere if the NF series will still be offered periodically?


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## Carl Kolchak (Nov 12, 2020)

Dabo Fett said:


> Figures, after years of wanting one I caved and ordered a custom cyclops last week, and immediately after they announced these. I was thinking of getting the de anyway as an appetizer, but fingers crossed if they stick to their current estimates build times my custom will arrive just after these start shipping.
> Spring can’t be here soon enough!


My MIA Cyclops has the best ergonomics of any guitar I've ever owned.


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## jephjacques (Nov 12, 2020)

Dunables own and I'm super stoked these are apparently selling like crazy, they deserve all the success in the world


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 16, 2020)

WTF?

What justifies a set of Gotoh Locking tuners being a $120 extra? I can buy literally the same tuners myself brand new for $80! 







If anything it should be miles cheaper than $80 because the cost of the new tuners should be offset by the cost of the stock non-locking tuners _not being included with the guitar.
_
It's the exact same story with the pickups too. You're paying $225 full price for USA Dunable pickups when the cost of the upgrade should be negated by the cost of _NOT_ paying for the stock pickups that come on the base model.

That makes no financial sense whatsoever. You might as well buy the stock guitar and buy the pickups and tuners yourself separately for the same price or less. At least then you get a spare set of perfectly functional stock Dunable pickups and non-locking tuners effectively for free! But if you buy the pickups and tuners as an _upgrade_, you get neither of those things as an extra!

WTF Dunable? What's even the point of making them extras at all?


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## Demiurge (Nov 16, 2020)

^My guess is that, with whatever arrangement they have with the manufacturer, they can only get the guitars built with the OEM hardware and that these 'mods' have to be done stateside, hence the markup.


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## metaljohn (Nov 16, 2020)

Demiurge said:


> ^My guess is that, with whatever arrangement they have with the manufacturer, they can only get the guitars built with the OEM hardware and that these 'mods' have to be done stateside, hence the markup.



I was having the same thoughts as the other guy, but this actually makes more sense. Although to be fair, I wanted to put completely different pickups and locking tuners on mine if I had ordered, and wouldn't have went with the upgrade options anyway(minus the case).


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## Carl Kolchak (Nov 16, 2020)

metaljohn said:


> I was having the same thoughts as the other guy, but this actually makes more sense. Although to be fair, I wanted to put completely different pickups and locking tuners on mine if I had ordered, and wouldn't have went with the upgrade options anyway(minus the case).


You might want to give the Dunable pups a shot first. The Direwolves that came in my Cyclops sound _REALLY_ good.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 16, 2020)

Demiurge said:


> ^My guess is that, with whatever arrangement they have with the manufacturer, they can only get the guitars built with the OEM hardware and that these 'mods' have to be done stateside, hence the markup.


Still not really an excuse to rip people off though, is it?

Seems awfully convenient that the value of the stock pickups and tuners _allegedly_ coincides with the labour cost of adding the upgraded hardware in the US, doesn't it?

How many hours of labour does it take to replace a set of tuners with Gotoh locking ones? How many hours of labour does it take to replace a set of pickups?

It takes me about 15 minutes to do a pickup swap and 5 minutes to replace a set of tuners with locking ones. That's 0.33 hours. Or $2.17 in labour on USA minimum wage.

Pretty sure those stock pickups and tuners they're not including with the guitar are worth a bit more than 2 dollars 17 cents.


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## metaljohn (Nov 16, 2020)

Carl Kolchak said:


> You might want to give the Dunable pups a shot first. The Direwolves that came in my Cyclops sound _REALLY_ good.



I won't be able to grab one on this run anyway, but I'm just an active pickup guy.


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## Electric Wizard (Nov 16, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> It takes me about 15 minutes to do a pickup swap and 5 minutes to replace a set of tuners with locking ones. That's 0.33 hours. Or $2.17 in labour on USA minimum wage.


You don't pay yourself any overhead when you do it. Dunable, or any tech out there, charges more because they have operating costs and employees that probably deserve more than minimum wage too.


Anyways I wish they were doing a yeti


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 16, 2020)

Electric Wizard said:


> You don't pay yourself any overhead when you do it. Dunable, or any tech out there, charges more because they have operating costs and employees that probably deserve more than minimum wage too.


I assumed minimum wage because installing a set of tuners is fundamentally unskilled work. And soldering a set of pickups into a guitar is regularly done by unskilled workers in every mass production facility in the far east you can name.

But the same logic applies though. The cost of 20 minutes worth of labour cannot be reasonably argued to be worth more than what the stock hardware is worth to justify paying full price for the upgrades. Any way you slice it, it makes no financial sense whatsoever.

The profit margins they're generating for demanding you pay full price for the upgrades over the stock hardware are fucking BIG. Disproportionately so.


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## Demiurge (Nov 16, 2020)

Not for nothing, the best way to be able to say that you offer a service that you really don't want to: overcharge. If you run a shop building custom guitars, I bet there's a billion more things you'd rather have your staff do than swap hardware on the imports.


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## Forkface (Nov 16, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> The profit margins they're generating for demanding you pay full price for the upgrades over the stock hardware are fucking BIG. Disproportionately so.


lol then get the stock tuners and swap em yourself?
i find it funny how suddenly everyone's got a masters in economics when it comes to these things. they're charging 120 simply because they either analyzed the market already, or they're testing the waters. if no one gets them, they might lower the price. or remove the option altogether. 
but i can pretty much guarantee some people will choose the 120 option just to opt out of the hassle. I mean, if its as you say & the set itself is 80 bucks, for sure I'd go that option.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 16, 2020)

Demiurge said:


> Not for nothing, the best way to be able to say that you offer a service that you really don't want to: overcharge. If you run a shop building custom guitars, I bet there's a billion more things you'd rather have your staff do than swap hardware on the imports.


Do the installation of the upgrades in Korea then. That way, you're not price gouging the customer by not offsetting the cost of the stock pickups & hardware against the cost of the upgrades.

Doing all these mods in the USA is a woefully inefficient way to carry them out. If you cannot carry these upgrades out in a manner that makes financial sense to the customer, what's the point? The most asinine thing you can do is pretend for a moment that consumers won't notice.


Forkface said:


> lol then get the stock tuners and swap em yourself?


That's not the point though, is it?

The point is, why make it an option in the first place when the economics of the upgrade are so nonsensical?


> i find it funny how suddenly everyone's got a masters in economics when it comes to these things. they're charging 120 simply because they either analyzed the market already, or they're testing the waters. if no one gets them, they might lower the price. or remove the option altogether.


It doesn't require a masters in economics to know that this makes zero financial sense any more than you need a masters in astrology to know that the earth isn't flat.

Why scold me for my observations being those of an 'economics expert' when in the very next sentence, you demonstrate the same alleged style of so-called 'expertise' in sales and marketing?


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## spudmunkey (Nov 16, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> Do the installation of the upgrades in Korea then. That way, you're not price gouging the customer by not offsetting the cost of the stock pickups & hardware against the cost of the upgrades.
> 
> Doing all these mods in the USA is a woefully inefficient way to carry them out. If you cannot carry these upgrades out in a manner that makes financial sense to the customer, what's the point? The most asinine thing you can do is pretend for a moment that consumers won't notice.
> 
> ...



Just because something costs more and they pass along those costs, that doesn't mean "price gouging" or "ripping off". It just means that it's not good value.

If I buy New York City water to be over-nighted to me in California to make my authentic New York bagels, is it a rip-off or gouging if I pass that cost to the customers who are willing to pay for it? 

It's all fine and good to wish it were cheaper, but this is Dunable's first import line, no? They have ZERO sales history in this market, and setting up an in-factory customization line might just cost wwwway the heck more than you think for the volume that Dunable was willing to commit to, to keep the pricing where it is. 

At my last job at a furniture dealer, it was actually cheaper for me to buy a whole "production" desk and just keep or recycle the legs than it was to just buy the top as a "special" without the legs, for an example.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 16, 2020)

spudmunkey said:


> Just because something costs more and they pass along those costs, that doesn't mean "price gouging" or "ripping off". It just means that it's not good value.



But _it is_ ripping off. You're being conned out of the value of the stock pickups and stock tuners being excluded from the guitar, compared to purchasing a stock Dunable and the upgrades separately.

Its disingenuous that people are trying to justify the con by saying that USA labour isn't free. When neither is the cost of the stock tuners or the stock pickups. The original labour cost of installing said stock pickups and hardware in Korea isn't free either. Yet I'm still paying full price for all of those goods and services despite receiving none of them.

If a waiter cooked up a roast dinner, but threw it all in the trash and made a second dinner, but billed you twice for 2 roast dinners, you'd be furious. Why should you pay full price for goods and services that you never received? Same thing is happening here. And it doesn't matter what the excuses are, you never bill a customer twice for only 1 meal. Just like you shouldn't bill the customer for pickups and hardware they'll never receive.


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## Mathemagician (Nov 16, 2020)

I mean... dude runs a business and I cannot imagine anyone finding it worth their time to do for less than about ~$40 flat labor charge. Which I am absolutely willing to pay in order to not have to buy tools or literally give it another thought.

I haven’t bought anything either so I have no horse in this race.

But handmade USA pickups + USA labor charge is my guess. Plus if demand is high then “why not” also enters the equation.

Edit: Oh I get what you’re saying - ok then just do your thing if you want. Unlike someone running a music store Dunable just sells their own guitars. A music store will carry inventory/sell discounted parts, meanwhile places with one product/service charge more for what are essentially auxiliary services. It’s purposely pricing yourself out of a segment and only taking on work if it’s “worth it” to you.


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## mbardu (Nov 16, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> But _it is_ ripping off. You're being conned out of the value of the stock pickups and stock tuners being excluded from the guitar, compared to purchasing a stock Dunable and the upgrades separately.
> 
> Its disingenuous that people are trying to justify the con by saying that USA labour isn't free. When neither is the cost of the stock tuners or the stock pickups. The original labour cost of installing said stock pickups and hardware in Korea isn't free either. Yet I'm still paying full price for all of those goods and services despite receiving none of them.
> 
> If a waiter cooked up a roast dinner, but threw it all in the trash and made a second dinner, but billed you twice for 2 roast dinners, you'd be furious. Why should you pay full price for goods and services that you never received? Same thing is happening here. And it doesn't matter what the excuses are, you never bill a customer twice for only 1 meal. Just like you shouldn't bill the customer for pickups and hardware they'll never receive.



Let's say you go to a restaurant for their famous three course menu- and in that menu they include a cocktail and their house wine.
But you decide you want none of that, and instead would prefer your favorite spirits and an expensive vintage of your favorite imported chateau that they happen to offer.
They're probably going to charge you a pretty premium for it, even though they won't incur the cost of the house wine and spirits.
Are you going to tell them that you can purchase the wine at the store and decant it yourself for less $$$? And that you're getting conned because you could buy the meal and the wine separately for less $$$?

I mean, you could, but most people understand and wouldn't.
"Conned" is a pretty strong word.


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## Electric Wizard (Nov 16, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> If a waiter cooked up a roast dinner, but threw it all in the trash and made a second dinner, but billed you twice for 2 roast dinners, you'd be furious. Why should you pay full price for goods and services that you never received? Same thing is happening here. And it doesn't matter what the excuses are, you never bill a customer twice for only 1 meal. Just like you shouldn't bill the customer for pickups and hardware they'll never receive.


It's more like going to a buffet that includes prime rib and choosing to fill up at the salad bar. It doesn't matter to their pricing that Olive Garden lets you just get soup and salad, they don't offer that here so you're on the hook for same as the meat eaters.

Realistically WMI is not going to keep track of upgrades on a per guitar basis, so you have no choice but to get it with the tuners and pickups, and Dunable is offering to upgrade them afterwards. They can't give you a discount because they had to buy them, and then add on the extra stuff you wanted. They could add the name brand tuners and USA pickups to everything but that would raise the price, and then instead of this the disagreement it would be about why you'd buy this if a PRS S2 or Kiesel is almost the same price. I agree that they could stand to include locking tuners since they are so common but Dunable probably wanted an 899 price point and this is the spec that WMI said they could do it for.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 16, 2020)

mbardu said:


> Let's say you go to a restaurant for their famous three course menu- and in that menu they include a cocktail and their house wine.
> But you decide you want none of that, and instead would prefer your favorite spirits and an expensive vintage of your favorite imported chateau that they happen to offer.
> They're probably going to charge you a pretty premium for it, *even though they won't incur the cost of the house wine and spirits.*


The restaurant might not, but Dunable will.


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## mbardu (Nov 16, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> The restaurant might not, but Dunable will.



Keeping aside the fact that this would go _against _your point (if Dunable incurs _more _cost then they should be charging _even more_), we just don't know and are all making assumptions. Maybe it is significantly cheaper to order a bunch of guitars with stock tuners than to purchase two different batches of smaller sizes with different specs. So it saves them money.
But most importantly nobody is forced to purchase the upgrade so if that bothers you...don't do it I guess?

It's like paying 1,000$ bucks for a master grade piece of wood from a custom builder for your top and saying it's a con because the regular guitar with standard top also uses a piece of wood, and you know a guy in the lumber business who can get a similar top for 200$.


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## spudmunkey (Nov 16, 2020)

A bit like people saying Apple not including a charger is a rip-off, when a) we don't know that the phone wouldn't have cost more money if they included one, and b) that the price wasn't already figured in to the cost of every other phone with an included charger. If my Note 9 didn't come with a charger, it may well have been cheaper. And if Apple included a charger, the Iphone 12 might well have cost even more.

...although including a cord that doesn't even work with any of their previous chargers was a bit of a "WTF?" move...


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 16, 2020)

mbardu said:


> Keeping aside the fact that this would go _against _your point (if Dunable incurs _more _cost then they should be charging _even more_)


 If it costs Dunable more money to offer upgraded tuners than for the customer to buy them separately + get 1 free set of tuners out of the deal, then they shouldn't be making it an optional extra at all. Its an utterly nonsensical proposition. That's the point I have been making literally this entire time.

Whether or not I would choose to make such a purchase myself is totally irrelevant. Doesn't mean I'm not allowed to point out how stupid a deal it is just because I'm not buying it.

The additional cost of the tuners is far too high to justify not doing it yourself when replacing tuners is such a trivial task that a 6 year old can do. Where's the incentive? There isn't one.

But whatever dude. If anyone wants to throw money straight in the garbage, that's their agenda. I personally prefer to shop smarter than that.


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## BenjaminW (Nov 16, 2020)

I read this as Dumble and was very excited, but then I realized it said Dunable and figured this is cool either way.


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## mbardu (Nov 16, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> If it costs Dunable more money to offer upgraded tuners than for the customer to buy them separately + get 1 free set of tuners out of the deal, then they shouldn't be making it an optional extra at all. Its an utterly nonsensical proposition. That's the point I have been making literally this entire time.
> 
> Whether or not I would choose to make such an purchase myself is totally irrelevant. Doesn't mean I'm not allowed to point out how stupid a deal it is just because I'm not buying it.
> 
> The additional cost of the tuners is far too high to justify not doing it yourself when replacing tuners is such a trivial task that a 6 year old can do. Where's the incentive? There isn't one.



We have this notion that the price a company sells something for has to be proportionate to what it costs _them_, but most of the time that doesn't apply, _in particular_ for successful companies. The price it "cost Dunable to offer upgraded tuners" or to offer anything for that matter does not really matter. It only matters what a buyer is willing to pay for. That's how successful companies make good margins, by selling for significantly more than it costs them. Or sometimes by putting prohibitive prices on things they don't want to have to do too often.

But even that is besides the point. You don't mind ordering separate tuners and installing them- I and probably most folks here wouldn't either. Maybe some other people wouldn't want to deal with the hassle - and don't care about 120$. Change the situation and imagine something similar in the car world. I'm fully aware that one can get spare parts separately and install them themselves, yet I know 0 about cars, so until I do (may have the time to learn some day) I would totally pay the premium to have stuff done. Or, I can build some of my own furniture, so that's not something I like paying a lot for- yet I'm not good at repairing electronics so I don't mind paying for that.

It's funny if you push your argument to the extreme. "It costs this guitar manufacturer more to offer a guitar made of wood than for a customer to separately buy the wood and parts to build his own instrument, with even some extra wood left and money for spare parts. So where's the incentive to buy a pre-made guitar?". Yet guitar manufacturers are a thing. It's extreme but hey, there are people like Pondman who used to build a couple of (awesome) guitars every other week so clearly not everyone has the same skillset or time


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 16, 2020)

mbardu said:


> It's funny if you push your argument to the extreme. "It costs this guitar manufacturer more to offer a guitar made of wood than for a customer to separately buy the wood and parts to build his own instrument, with even some extra wood left and money for spare parts", yet guitar manufacturers are a thing. It's extreme but hey, there are people like Pondman who used to build a couple of (awesome) guitars every other week so clearly not everyone has the same skillset or time


Bit of a massive difference between installing a set of locking tuners yourself (something a child can do) and building an entire guitar from raw materials.

I have no patience for people using a strawman in a disingenuous attempt to bolster an argument. So I'll be dipping out now. Bye!


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## mbardu (Nov 16, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> Bit of a massive difference between installing a set of locking tuners yourself (something a child can do) and building an entire guitar from raw materials.
> 
> I have no patience for people using a strawman in a disingenuous attempt to bolster an argument. So I'll be dipping out now. Bye!



Hey I did say it was extreme and it was more of a funny exaggeration than any type of argument  (the argument was above it).
But OK bye !


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## Carl Kolchak (Nov 17, 2020)

The whole thing's kind of funny to me. I mean part of the "allure" of a Dunable is that you're buying a semi-custom MIA guitar. The import line exists so that people who can't afford (or are otherwise too cheap) a MIA Dunable can now own a licensed copy of one. The Gibson/Epiphone analogy seems a pretty obvious one.

Anyhoo, if you don't want to get gouged for those after market upgrades then simply side step the entire hassle and just go for a real MIA Dunable instead.


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## possumkiller (Nov 17, 2020)

I mean, if I see something that I think is priced ridiculously, I just don't buy it. Why two pages of ranting about optional pickups and tuners?


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 17, 2020)

possumkiller said:


> I mean, if I see something that I think is priced ridiculously, I just don't buy it. Why two pages of ranting about optional pickups and tuners?


Because discussing whether or not something is worth it and explaining why is part of what discussion forums are for.


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## budda (Nov 17, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> Because discussing whether or not something is worth it and explaining why is part of what discussion forums are for.



Dont look at boutique brands then


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## efiltsohg (Nov 17, 2020)

well I was going to buy one but now that I know they will overcharge me by 40$ I'M OUT


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 17, 2020)

I love when folks, genuinely, have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. It's just so quaint and innocent. Like trying to explain stuff to kids or like showing your grandma how the microwave works. It's sort of frustrating at first, but eh, they'll make it in the end.


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## Forkface (Nov 17, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> That's not the point though, is it?


but that is quite _literally_ the point you're trying to make. "Why buy the option when you can swap em yourself", "a child can swap them" "it makes no sense financially".
I'm explaining why some people would choose to get the option. I know I would, simply because I wouldn't wanna bother. 

"why take your car to a car wash if you can wash it yourself"
"why pay someone to mow the lawn if you can do it for free"
"why go to a restaurant if its so easy to cook?"

examples go on and on. but yeah, I'm done feeding trolls for the moment, have an excellent day.


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## budda (Nov 17, 2020)

Does he know $15k guitars exist? Did I just give him heart palpitations?


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## MFB (Nov 17, 2020)

Can't wait for the entire doom scene to become import R2's into Oranges instead of the SG/LPs


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## Eyelessfiend (Nov 17, 2020)

Really wanna pickup a import Cyclops as a backup for my Cyclops but I'm waiting to see if he adds a baritone option. Also curious about his import pickups. I wasn't a huge fan of his pickups (except for the Baphomet, that thing rips) but am curious how these import ones stack up.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 18, 2020)

Forkface said:


> but that is quite _literally_ the point you're trying to make. "Why buy the option when you can swap em yourself", "a child can swap them" "it makes no sense financially".
> I'm explaining why some people would choose to get the option. I know I would, simply because I wouldn't wanna bother.
> 
> "why take your car to a car wash if you can wash it yourself"
> ...


Imagine being too lazy to save $40 by replacing a set of tuners yourself but not lazy enough to not post a comment explaining how lazy you are. 

Next time you're in town, hit me up next time you want to replace a set of strings. $100 is an offer you cannot refuse!


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## budda (Nov 18, 2020)

Not everyone has time but go off.


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## MrWulf (Nov 18, 2020)

I mean feels free to do it yourself and save some bucks. Those who dont want to will just shell out money so that a trained professional do it for them.
If you can do it yourself, more power to you.

Yes it is really that simple. Nobody is here for your outrage.


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## mbardu (Nov 18, 2020)

Theory of mind is tough.


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## oracles (Nov 18, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> Imagine being too lazy to save $40 by replacing a set of tuners yourself but not lazy enough to not post a comment explaining how lazy you are.
> 
> Next time you're in town, hit me up next time you want to replace a set of strings. $100 is an offer you cannot refuse!



Man, just say you were never gonna buy one anyway and dip out. You've totally missed the point.


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 18, 2020)

oracles said:


> Man, just say you were never gonna buy one anyway and dip out. You've totally missed the point.


Actually, _you _have.

Whether or not I was actually going to waste $40 was never the point. It's the principle.


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## Bdtunn (Nov 18, 2020)

T00DEEPBLUE said:


> Actually, _you _have.
> 
> Whether or not I was actually going to waste $40 was never the point. It's the principle.



could you please just stop we get it you don’t want to spend the extra 40 can we just move on. 

Sacha just did a live Instagram and the guitar looks and soundS great!!


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## T00DEEPBLUE (Nov 18, 2020)

I'll stop when people stop responding to my comments without them reading the full story.

Ask them to stop instead.


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## budda (Nov 18, 2020)

This guy


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## efiltsohg (Nov 18, 2020)

sorry but I'm not poor and my half hour of work is worth more than $40


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## Forkface (Nov 18, 2020)

budda said:


> This guy


some people are so obtuse they would rather double down on their denseness than even remotely consider the possibility that they might be wrong.



efiltsohg said:


> sorry but I'm not poor and my half hour of work is worth more than $40


yep. this is the basic principle right here. i see 40 bucks for professional work of installation pretty dang reasonable.
this is the kind of person who needs plumbing work, calls the plumber, gets a quote and then says "why so expensive, its only a couple of pipes, I can do it myself!" or the timeless classic "i know a guy who'll do it for X much less!" Suddenly the concept of paying for services is unfathomable. 

Must be tough getting such an intense reality check


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## mbardu (Nov 19, 2020)




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## Carl Kolchak (Jan 3, 2021)




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## Steinmetzify (Jan 3, 2021)

Black matte R2 sold out. Slightly bummed but hey, really don’t need another guitar. 

Sounds good in Steve’s vid tho, good on them for offering something at this price point.


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## Millul (Jan 3, 2021)

Carl Kolchak said:


>




That thing looks great!!!
I was feeling bad every time the guy slapped his ringed hand on the guitar, "tac" "TAC"


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## efiltsohg (Jan 4, 2021)

hm, glossy painted neck kind of killed my gas for these, everything else looks pretty spot on


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## DarkstarII (Jul 1, 2021)

Mine just came today; pretty happy with the quality and tones - neck pu is very solid, bridge is ... not perfect. But the rest of the guitar is! I put together an unboxing/playthrough vid:


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## Blasphemer (Jul 2, 2021)

My Cyclops came in today. Pics first:








This thing is pretty sweet. It's admittedly been a while since I've played a "normal" guitar after having my Strandberg for the last 4 or so years, so it's a bit strange going back to a guitar with a headstock and resonating strings bast the bridge and nut, and the string spacing felt super wide in comparison. It came mostly setup, with only a bridge height requirement needed on my part, and that's only because I like stupid low action. It was perfectly playable out of the box. 

Fit and finish is quite good for an import guitar. The only issues I can find is the slightest bit of roughness on the binding at the first fret on the high string side, but it's small enough that it doesn't even pick up in photos - i can just feel it with my fingernail. That and a tiny bit of overspray on the binding at the opposite end of the neck, but it's so small it doesn't bother me. 

All the hardware feels nice, although I'm yet to crack it open and see what the internal components are like - I'm assuming button-sized pots which I can replace later, if I want. It has a coil tap, which is nice, but doesn't get as spanky as I'm used to in the middle position. The tuners- THE TUNERS - They're fine. I like how they feel better than I thought they would, and both the open gears and button style are super classy. The pic at the end really shows the grain of the wood, which the others don't for whatever reason. Out of all the ones I've seen popping up on socials over the last couple days, I like the burst and grain on mine the best 

The pickups are the stock OEM model. They're alright. I'll probably upgrade them down the line. They/the guitar feels a bit tubby in comparison to my strandy, but that's also an ash body with the Abasi Fishmans in it, so it's not a huge shock that my rig dialed in for that feels looser. Need to just keep turning knobs for a few weeks/days and see if I can get closer to something I'm more used to.

Overall, this is a killer guitar, and I urge anyone thinking of grabbing one in the 2nd run to do so!


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