# IEM Converts?



## fenderbender4 (May 27, 2014)

They're kind of pricey and not everyone loves the idea of hearing a converted signal, but in my experience in ear monitors are the way to go. Heard playback and the IEM equipped performance sounded so much better. Easier to hear everything, especially doing anything with harmonies.

Read some interviews and talked to some local sound guys and (besides being more stage volume friendly) they said when doing festival type stuff, the IEM bands typically, on average, sound a lot better/tighter.

Anyone else's experiences?


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## GunpointMetal (May 27, 2014)

I know that once we started using them (bassist and I have wireless, drummer is hardwired) the tight level went up right away. Stage sound is nice, but for me with guitar, you move around a bunch, you can only hear your guitar in certain places on stage, or too much drum and bass when you're running around, so to have the monitor mix that never changes in my ears is a delight. It helps immensely in practice to, because EVERYONE gets to to hear EACH person, so the drummer can't mask his sloppy feet with volume, and that part where you always miss that note by a half-step will get pointed out too, but thats not a bad thing!


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## eyeswide (May 29, 2014)

IEM's all the way.


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## fenderbender4 (May 31, 2014)

Surprised more bands don't choose to just bite the bullet and make the investment. I think given today's current market, where music has changed from a "Recorded" format to depending once again on live playing, that a premium is placed on even a low-level band to sound "tight".


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## GunpointMetal (Jun 1, 2014)

fenderbender4 said:


> Surprised more bands don't choose to just bite the bullet and make the investment. I think given today's current market, where music has changed from a "Recorded" format to depending once again on live playing, that a premium is placed on even a low-level band to sound "tight".


I don't know how many shows we've played where I check out a band's recordings and they're machine-like, then play with them and they barely get the breakdowns together. I kinda blame home recording.....No reason to practice when you can just hyper-edit and quantize everything!

OT-IEM systems can only be a help, in my opinion.


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## BenSolace (Jun 2, 2014)

Another convert here! Not only has my band gone all DI (Axe FX/Sansamp for bass etc.), but also in-ears. It helps in many ways, not least with the fact that we play to a click with samples/auto patch changing. I honestly can't imagine going back to wedges (or nothing in the case of many venues).


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## vansinn (Jun 2, 2014)

Do all modern IEM's these days come with a good build-in fast-action limiter, to avoid ear damage from a sudden screaming feedback?

Any models to be avoided?
Dual- or triple (ear) drivers (for improved sound quality)?

I'm not currently in a band, but still find cans annoying for tracking/rehearsing, and even my IP2 plugs don't stay in the ears too well, so I'm considering shopping an IEM kit..


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## eyeswide (Jun 2, 2014)

vansinn said:


> Do all modern IEM's these days come with a good build-in fast-action limiter, to avoid ear damage from a sudden screaming feedback?
> 
> Any models to be avoided?
> Dual- or triple (ear) drivers (for improved sound quality)?
> ...



Sennheiser EW 300s have a limiter in the body back. If you're using IEMs properly, screaming feedback doesn't even exist!

Models to be avoided? Cheap ones. People that have bad experiences with IEMs mostly had an experience with cheap products. Also, the whole signal chain seriously matters. Great transmitter/receiver with shitty ear buds? Bad experience. Same with the reverse situation.

Dual is the absolute minimum you should be getting, and triple is generally recommended. The guys in my band use universal IEMs and they seem to work okay. I use customs and find that they're amazing.


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## troyguitar (Jun 2, 2014)

I always wanted to go all-direct including electronic drums and all in-ears, but none of my bands were ever interested. Fast setup and teardown, easy to haul, great and consistent sound.

I see no downsides to it at all, but I also wear earplugs at all shows and rehearsals whether I'm playing or spectating. Volume doesn't do anything for me except cause pain.


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## Necris (Jun 2, 2014)

I wish my old band would have sprung for that idea. The drummer was, at least apparently, more or less deaf, which meant everyone had to crank their amps for him to hear what was being played (I'm sure the noise of a drum kit doesn't help). Painful, to say the least, even with earplugs.

What is everyone here using for IEMs?

I was looking at some Etymotic HF5s just to see if I can get used to in ears (I found earbuds uncomfortable at the best of times and that put me off ever trying IEMs, although maybe I would find them more comfortable). 

However, I've seen reports that they're poorly made and extremely fragile as a result, in some cases, breaking within a few months of purchase despite being well taken care of (contrastingly, I've also seen a report of a set lasting 10+ years), and Etymotic don't always honor their own warranty.


~$130 isn't a terrible price, but I find all of that off putting, even the high advertised noise attenuation (35-42db of attenuation) and allegedly accurate sound isn't enough to sell me with that sort of reputation.


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## eyeswide (Jun 3, 2014)

Necris said:


> ~$130 isn't a terrible price, but I find all of that off putting, even the high advertised noise attenuation (35-42db of attenuation) and allegedly accurate sound isn't enough to sell me with that sort of reputation.



$130 is waaaaaaaay below what I'd recommend. Seriously, $200 is the absolute bottom I'd consider, and that would be for universal IEMs. Customs are totally the way to go. You can get cheaper ones from Alien Ears and 1964 Ears. If you have an audiologist around you that makes hearing aids and tests hearing, go in there and check them out as they'll likely have a line of IEMs they carry. That's how I got my Starkey Tunz IEMs, and I couldn't be happier.


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## fenderbender4 (Jun 4, 2014)

It may sound ridiculous, but dropping big money on a IEM system, might be a better investment than tons of money on gear. In my limited experience "Tone" isn't even on people's radars. The songs and musicianship come first. Just my opinion though.

As to IEM's, I don't think every decent IEM has a limiter. I just used the PSM200 (I'd recommend upgrading) and sometimes the levels would spike. But with IEM's you can put your drummers to a click (evil laugh hahaha).


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Jun 5, 2014)

Save your ears for your grandkids & ditch the wedges.
I'll never go back to wedges, IEM's only for ever.

Since you get such a good seal blocking outside noise out, you get to turn way down.
Some make the mistake of keeping them loud, but with the seal, the threshold of you ear's saturation point comes down even more, so you really NEED to turn them down to get greater clarity.

One argument that some folks make is that IEM's don't have enough "punch", to which I've found that in the cases where that is true, these people have gone the cheap way and only gone with single driver units.

To get better "punch", you NEED to have at least 2 drivers, but the quality goes up and the volume can come down even more if you invest in 3 driver or 4 driver units.

Here are some companies with fine examples.

The Official LiveWires &#8211; Custom Fit In-Ear Earphones | We make top-of-the-line, custom in-ear monitors at an unbeatable price.
AUDIO EARZ- Affordable custom fitted in ear monitors custom fit earbuds and earphones, IEM, Professional Personal In-Ear Monitors For Itunes, Ipads, MP3 Players, Cell Phones and more. Create a custom head phone to listen to your music as its best qua
Etymotic Research, Inc. - Signature Artists - hf5 earphones


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## fenderbender4 (Jun 5, 2014)

JH Audio too. Never used them but have good pedigree. I think the guy who owns/runs JH Audio used to own or run another dominant, well-known company that he sold.


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## theo (Jun 5, 2014)

I've been really really curious about in ears for a long time. who can school me on a solid entry level setup for a band?

Gonna try to convert the guys. Our drummer plays to clicks with backing guitars that I recorded for him as it is, myself, the other guitarist and our bassist are all wireless now it's hard to be hear yourself when moving around the stage etc. 

I'm axe 2 so DI is no problem, bassist is sansamp, the only potentially limiting factor is the other guitarist who is mesa dual rec, although I might be able to convince him to enter the digital realm if I try hard enough.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Jun 6, 2014)

The first 2 links I posted above are a great start.


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## GunpointMetal (Jun 6, 2014)

theo said:


> I've been really really curious about in ears for a long time. who can school me on a solid entry level setup for a band?
> 
> Gonna try to convert the guys. Our drummer plays to clicks with backing guitars that I recorded for him as it is, myself, the other guitarist and our bassist are all wireless now it's hard to be hear yourself when moving around the stage etc.
> 
> I'm axe 2 so DI is no problem, bassist is sansamp, the only potentially limiting factor is the other guitarist who is mesa dual rec, although I might be able to convince him to enter the digital realm if I try hard enough.



Since you'll need a mixer anyways if you want to route out several different mixes, it probably wouldn't be much of an extra hassle to throw your own mic on the cab, or get a mic splitter and use the house mic to route his signal back around to where you can route it.


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## fenderbender4 (Jun 6, 2014)

theo said:


> I've been really really curious about in ears for a long time. who can school me on a solid entry level setup for a band?
> 
> Gonna try to convert the guys. Our drummer plays to clicks with backing guitars that I recorded for him as it is, myself, the other guitarist and our bassist are all wireless now it's hard to be hear yourself when moving around the stage etc.
> 
> I'm axe 2 so DI is no problem, bassist is sansamp, the only potentially limiting factor is the other guitarist who is mesa dual rec, although I might be able to convince him to enter the digital realm if I try hard enough.


 
Just never help him move his gear. Lugging around a cab and head gets really old. Me and the other guitarist in a band I was in both used POD HD500's. I said in another thread, it wasn't going to be "glorious tone" city, but it was really nice when I could grab all my stuff in one trip, setup in a snap, and have lots of spare time to grab a drink beforehand or just chill.

I had heard a few other "bar bands" and whenever they relied on amps, the sound just never was quite right. I think it's a little too difficult to manage sound levels on the stage as well as the PA mix in venues that don't have a lot of spare space. Whenever a band had guitar played direct, it oddly sounded a lot better in the mix. Very polished (good or bad depending on the setting and goal).


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## noob_pwn (Jun 8, 2014)

Huge convert, can't gig without them and my whole band & crew sans vocalist uses them. My vocalist is making the switch very soon. I will add though, it really pays to have your own engineer who knows what you want and can give you a mix. We are so adamant about this that we even tour our own desk & split for consistency. If you have someone good mixing them it can sound like you're playing in a studio and everything sounds killer.. but you're playing live.


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## theo (Jun 9, 2014)

^ Not many people can afford that kinda touring setup though here in Aus


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## fenderbender4 (Jun 9, 2014)

I will add a (huge) caveat. The band leader at the time was just opening up a music store and was a dealer for Presonus, so we got to use one of the studiolive mixers, which really helped in setup an keeping the gear amount to a minimum. So that is a huge expense right there that was alleviated due to the "insider" track to gear. So yes, it's a big investment and can be prohibitively so.


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## theo (Jun 10, 2014)

are these jamhub things worth looking into?


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## eyeswide (Jun 10, 2014)

theo said:


> are these jamhub things worth looking into?



Hey Theo, I don't think they are. I've looked into them before, but as a full on solution for IEMs, I don't think they are sufficient. For IEMs, you're going to want to have stereo control, and control what is in each ear. In the Jamhub, you can control the overall level of each item (which is good), but you can't control how much goes into each ear.

My band uses this - the Mix Wizard 12M, and it is incredible. It even has a built in splitter, so you can send everything to the board, then the board can split the signal as well as feeding your IEMs. It is somewhat pricey ~$2,000, but it does everything you'll need. Unfortunately, it looks like it recently got discontinued, which baffles me. There is literally nothing like this on the market right now. The closest you can get is Presonus stuff, but you'll need to buy a splitter and rely on a digital mixer.

Hopefully that helps a bit!


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## GunpointMetal (Jun 10, 2014)

If you don't want to spend a whole boatload, that Jamhub would be fine. Eyeswide really likes his Top Of The Line stuff, and with good reason, but its really not practical for most band's budgets. I'm using a bottom-dollar wireless system and a Behringer mixer and IT WORKS JUST fine. Our headphone mixes are mono, and none of us are having any issues. If you're still plugged into your pedals/amp with a cord you can get an inexpensive wired system that would be just as reliable. I'm gonna build a backup wired rig with some cable flex wrap and a rechargeable headphone amplifier. If you're goal is better monitoring and playing along to click tracks, you don't need a stadium level system.


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## Necris (Jul 7, 2014)

I ordered some Etymotic ER4PT in ear monitors tonight. Hopefully I can get used to cramming things into my ear canal.


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## jbealsmusic (Jul 11, 2014)

I've been playing direct and monitoring with IEMs in live settings for around 10 years now and I'll never go back! However, in rehearsal and jamming alone at home I still like to hear/feel my amp in the room.

My only complaint with IEMs is that I have weird ear canals and I've never had a single set of earbuds that actually stay in my ears (even really expensive custom designed ones). So, I'm "that guy" who wears a set of open-backed headphones on stage.


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## concertjunkie (Jul 24, 2014)

ok, noob to this stuff, as everyone in my band is on board to do this, especially with our music, we want it to be TIGHT.

So what are all the elements I need to have this setup, one for each member? And what would that signal chain look like? I'm gathering that I need:

mixing board
wireless receivers , one per person
IEM , one per person (triple driver minimum)
interface?

anything else this list is missing?


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## eyeswide (Jul 24, 2014)

concertjunkie said:


> ok, noob to this stuff, as everyone in my band is on board to do this, especially with our music, we want it to be TIGHT.
> 
> So what are all the elements I need to have this setup, one for each member? And what would that signal chain look like? I'm gathering that I need:
> 
> ...



Cables! Sooo many cables!

Read through my post history/my gear list on my profile. My band uses an awesome IEM setup that I would recommend!


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## concertjunkie (Jul 24, 2014)

eyeswide said:


> Cables! Sooo many cables!
> 
> Read through my post history/my gear list on my profile. My band uses an awesome IEM setup that I would recommend!



I went through your posts and found one lightly mentioning what you use.

So it looks like:
Interface ->Allen and Heath 12M (mixer) 

since this mixer has a split in it, it goes:
Mixer -> Sennheiser ew300 -> IEM
-> PA

does this look correct so far?

And is the sennheiser ew300 for just one person , or can you use one of those devices and pick up multiple receivers?

Which by the way, how much do extra receivers cost?


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## zombieritual (Jul 25, 2014)

i just got a sennheiser ew300 system a few months ago and i don't ever not want to use it! actually i made a video in the thread that's a down a few posts from this one explaining my whole rig so i won't go into it again, if anyone wants to check it out i think i explained stuff pretty well. i'm doing a one man band, but i'm pretty sure the setup i have would be useful to anyone in a band with more than one member. plus doing my own mix gives the sound guy less to do so he's happier. i just tell him i brought my own mic and only need 4 cables, pan one left, two stereo, and one down the middle and we're good.


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## Necris (Jul 26, 2014)

I've been using my Etymotic ER4PTs pretty regularly since last saturday evening (I use the adapter that gives them the frequency response of the ER4S) and they have effectively ruined my other headphones for me. 

With a proper seal deep in the ear the attenuation of outside noise is as advertised. 
If you need to be aware of what's going on around you don't even think about using these.
Even without music playing you're pretty much deaf to your surroundings with them in, which is great news since at my house the phone tends to ring off the hook with telemarketers and automated calls for most of the day.


Compared to the Etymotics the Beyerdynamic DT1350s I own sound overly bassy, muddy and undefined. This is essentially the same feeling I had after using AudioTechnica AD700s for some time and then trying out my brothers Beats headphones (although this isn't quite that bad).  I'm sure with some heavy EQ I'll enjoy them again.

The Audio Technicas still sound alright, but the bass is lacking. I may upgrade to the AD900X at some point since they have more bass than the 700s without it being overpowering, but it isn't really a priority. Frequency Response graphs I've found show them to be similar to the Etymotics, with a bit less bass. 

The only down side of the Etymotics is that my left ear isn't adapting as well as my right did to having something inserted into it. Inserting the driver into that ear with the Triple Flanged tips can be uncomfortable, and taking it out, even after breaking the seal that it forms in the ear, is even more so, to the point of even being painful. As such I've been giving my ears a rest for the past couple days and will probably oto-ease (a lubricant for earpieces) to see if that makes things more comfortable. This is apparently normal for people new to In Ear Monitors.


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## Colbear (Jul 30, 2014)

theo said:


> are these jamhub things worth looking into?



My band got a jamhub as a cheap monitoring solution. It works fine, except that it's mono (as mentioned), but it's fun enough to use considering we didn't have the budget to go big. Better than no monitors at all, though (probably not a glowing product endorsement, now that I think about it )


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## eyeswide (Sep 12, 2014)

concertjunkie said:


> I went through your posts and found one lightly mentioning what you use.
> 
> So it looks like:
> Interface ->Allen and Heath 12M (mixer)
> ...



Hey man, late response!

That is correct with the signal chain. The EW300 is for just one person. If you wanted, you could use two (or more) receivers for set to the same channel, but you would end up hearing the same mix. To me, this really ignores a lot of the power that the MW 12m has, and kind of defeats the purpose of in ears, since you're sharing a mix with someone instead of getting a personally tailored mix.

If you have any more questions, I'd definitely be down to answer. Just PM if you post in here and I'll be sure to get back to you!


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