# New Rings of Saturn



## spawnofthesith (Aug 13, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQYWC9ezebw



Sounds like RoS, pretty sweet I like it.




In before e-rage


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## broj15 (Aug 13, 2014)

> Rusty Cooley - Guest Solo



i can see where it would work, but what an odd pairing.


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## SilentSeraph (Aug 13, 2014)

Eh. Drums sound horrible and overproduced, kind of 'plasticy' and I'm not sure if I heard a single actual riff, or anything interesting really. Blast beats and double pedal all the time+chugging=wanking and twiddling= very boring music.
The bit at 3:20 onwards was pretty good though.

I admire the musicianship, better than what I could do, but I can't help but feel those talents are being squandered.


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## SD83 (Aug 13, 2014)

I'm suprised I actually like parts of it. Too many parts which are, to my ears, in absolutly no way connected, especially in the beginning, but from about 1:15 on, I liked it


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## Nats (Aug 13, 2014)

Sounds like someone fell asleep on their computer keyboard when they had guitar pro's piano roll open.


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## stevexc (Aug 13, 2014)

Can't say I'm a fan. It still sounds like a midi file that was reamped. Now, I'm not accusing them of actually doing that, but that's what it ends up sounding like and I am not a fan of it.


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## sakeido (Aug 13, 2014)

How on earth did this shit ever find an audience? It is technically music.. but jesus christ. How long has this metal-as-a-competitive-sport stuff been going on


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## rokket2005 (Aug 13, 2014)

sakeido said:


> How on earth did this shit ever find an audience? It is technically music.. but jesus christ. How long has this metal-as-a-competitive-sport stuff been going on


Since everyone and their uncle started making "Progressive" Music.


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## stevexc (Aug 13, 2014)

sakeido said:


> How on earth did this shit ever find an audience? It is technically music.. but jesus christ. How long has this metal-as-a-competitive-sport stuff been going on



Since 1995 at very least


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## Alex Kenivel (Aug 13, 2014)

Nats said:


> Sounds like someone fell asleep on their computer keyboard when they had guitar pro's piano roll open.


 



In regards to OP:


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## MrPepperoniNipples (Aug 13, 2014)

I just want to hear Rusty Cooley's solo

I think it's fitting that he'd do one, since back in the day he was doing all the crazy fast 'nonsense' licks without the studio magic.


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## Forrest_H (Aug 13, 2014)

I remember listening to this band at the age of 15 to scare my parents.

I don't like this band


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## -One- (Aug 13, 2014)

I like this waaaay better than Dingir. It combines all of the best elements from Embryonic Anomaly and Dingir. Also glad to see Joel doing most of the leads, I think he's a significantly better player than Lucas, and his leads are way more tasteful in my opinion.


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## VigilSerus (Aug 13, 2014)

Oh god this song makes me feel many feels. Its glooooooriooous.


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## mikah912 (Aug 13, 2014)

Sounds like chiptunes with a lot of editing.

I saw them opening up on Summer Slaughter last year, and really couldn't make too many individual parts or riffs.


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## Randy (Aug 13, 2014)

I see they incorporated the lead tone from Lucas' abandoned solo project.


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## Gregory Frus (Aug 13, 2014)

There was a Rings of Saturn in the Los Angeles club scene back in the 80's.
Definitely not the same stuff.


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## abandonist (Aug 13, 2014)

Oh good, riff-salad.


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Aug 13, 2014)

I hope the production on the album sounds better, because I do not dig the mix in this video. There are some pretty cool moments, and I did like the last album, in doses at a time.


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## RagtimeDandy (Aug 13, 2014)

I'm sorry but can these guys just be wiped out of my mind and the history books of humanity? There's nothing redeeming about any of this music.


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## Zalbu (Aug 13, 2014)

Eh, I've heard worse but what's up with the Instagram filter on the video?


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## Don Vito (Aug 13, 2014)

Rings of Saturn is really good and are saving early 10's computer core, but those guitars are whack as hell seriously go back to playing Schecters with duct tape inlays and then we can talk about booty short pre order bundles


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## RustInPeace (Aug 13, 2014)

Nope. Shoulda listened to Steve.


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## Icecold (Aug 13, 2014)

If a group of guys tout that they play "Progressive Music" and show off how fast and complex they can play, but they cannot manage to write an actual song(Something other than a bunch of parts thrown together). I have to ask are they really that good in the first place? Eddie Van Halen,Vai, Friedman, Di Meola, Wooten, Pastorius, and any other Virtuoso of previous eras, all showed they had technical and musical ability within the context of a song. 

So yeah, hated it.


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 13, 2014)

I missed the part where they claimed to be prog?


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## Obsidian Soul (Aug 13, 2014)

I liked it.SSrg hate me now...


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## Alex Kenivel (Aug 13, 2014)

No hate here, man. different strokes...


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## Vhyle (Aug 13, 2014)

This has NEVER been done before! All of my wow!


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## ForThisGift (Aug 13, 2014)

There is exactly nothing impressive about their utterly impressive chops to me, if that makes any sense.


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## oracles (Aug 13, 2014)

That was actually more horrible than I had imagined it to be. The "guitars" sound like a poorly reamped midi file, and those drums are super artifical sounding. It's a bunch of riffs thrown together with no substance behind any of them.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 13, 2014)

#gameboycore

Leaving now...


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## Icecold (Aug 13, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> I missed the part where they claimed to be prog?



https://www.facebook.com/events/759381540780109/


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 13, 2014)

Icecold said:


> https://www.facebook.com/events/759381540780109/



Ah, I see, the boardwalk = rings of Saturn. ...


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## Icecold (Aug 13, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> Ah, I see, the boardwalk = rings of Saturn. ...



Boardwalk is the venue, breh. I Lived in the area and been to a few shows there. It clearly says Rings of Saturn (Metal, Post-Hardcore, Progressive), how are they not all three of those things? How is their music not considered Progressive, especially by the Deathcore audience? How many comments on the Dingir Youtube video were fans of the band telling people who didn't like the music that they "Didn't understand it because it's on a whole 'nother level." 

Here is what I'm saying, yes, they play very fast, they play highly on a technical level, but musically, it's extremely shallow. There is nothing wrong with enjoying it (Hell, i have a Vader avatar and their music is pretty damn simple on Death Metal's terms.) But I feel like the big "Grab" of this band is their technical ability, and yet they can't really do anything with it except be really technical. Scales and Speed need context in Music if you are looking to make something that people are going to listen to years down the line. I don't know what the goal of these guys are, but so far they have done a really good job at pissing a ton of people off.


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## Don Vito (Aug 13, 2014)

Icecold said:


> Boardwalk is the venue, breh. I Lived in the area and been to a few shows there. It clearly says Rings of Saturn (Metal, Post-Hardcore, Progressive), how are they not all three of those things? How is their music not considered Progressive, especially by the Deathcore audience? How many comments on the Dingir Youtube video were fans of the band telling people who didn't like the music that they "Didn't understand it because it's on a whole 'nother level."
> 
> Here is what I'm saying, yes, they play very fast, they play highly on a technical level, but musically, it's extremely shallow. There is nothing wrong with enjoying it (Hell, i have a Vader avatar and their music is pretty damn simple on Death Metal's terms.) But I feel like the big "Grab" of this band is their technical ability, and yet they can't really do anything with it except be really technical. Scales and Speed need context in Music if you are looking to make something that people are going to listen to years down the line. I don't know what the goal of these guys are, but so far they have done a really good job at pissing a ton of people off.


What he was trying to say is that the venue labeled them prog, not the band. This is the band's actual Facebook, and they state clearly that they are True Death Metal.
https://www.facebook.com/RingsofSaturnband


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## Icecold (Aug 13, 2014)

Don Vito said:


> What he was trying to say is that the venue labeled them prog, not the band. This is the band's actual Facebook, and they state clearly that they are True Death Metal.
> https://www.facebook.com/RingsofSaturnband



Which are both joke labels.....


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## crg123 (Aug 13, 2014)

Hahah this metal sucks article made me laugh pretty hard: 

Guitar Pro 6 Releases New Song and Video "Senseless Massacre" - MetalSucks

edit for those of you who are lazy 



> *Guitar Pro 6 Releases New Song and Video "Senseless Massacre*
> 
> Arobas Music, the company behind the revolutionary music notation software program Guitar Pro, has released a new song called &#8220;Senseless Massacre,&#8221; and they&#8217;ve hired the lads in Rings of Saturn as actors in the accompanying new music video. Arobas will be releasing a new album, More Generic Tech-Deathcore &#8212; their third &#8212; on Unique Leader Records in October.


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## asher (Aug 13, 2014)




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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 13, 2014)

The absolute lack of pick attack or dynamics or variations in "loudness"/volume is very disturbing...

But that lack of pick attack though...


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## RGM8 (Aug 14, 2014)

What I heard:

Blast beats
Growls
Very quite and indiscernible guitars.

Sounds like Thy Art is Murder to me.


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## Mklane (Aug 14, 2014)

I usually subscribe to the if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say it but damn this sucks! I saw them open for Dying Fetus awhile back and was actually excited to see them cause I heard they were "space grind" and I love weird grindy shit. They were awful, uninteresting and staring at their guitar necks the whole time. The singer wearing a backwards ball cap looked like he didn't give a ..... I guess they're doing something right though cause we are talking about them. Anyway here's some space grind!
PSUDOKU - Space Grind [full album] - YouTube


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## cronux (Aug 14, 2014)

With all the "recording at half speed" brouhaha around them I really don't care about them... but I read metalsucks from time to time and saw this video

gonna quote 



Nats said:


> Sounds like someone fell asleep on their computer keyboard when they had guitar pro's piano roll open.


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## in-pursuit (Aug 14, 2014)

it annoyed me that there was fairly obvious trem action in the solo and his guitar in the video has no trem. other than that, I don't care either way.


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## cronux (Aug 14, 2014)

@0:47

is that a guitar sound? to my ears it sounds like guitar pro... could be wrong though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQYWC9ezebw


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 14, 2014)

The big give away that the guitars are sampled or super edited is in the tremolo parts you can hear every note is down picked. That whole process sounds exhausting. There must be thousands of notes to edit together. 

At this stage it shouldn't even be debated if ROS edit everything together in Pro Tools when they don't even try to mask it.


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## Deathspell Omega (Aug 14, 2014)

Gregory Frus said:


> There was a Rings of Saturn in the Los Angeles club scene back in the 80's.
> Definitely not the same stuff.



Haha, indeed. Didn`t they have a song called "To See Black" and a guy named Billy Coane on vocals ? They were a melodic band with sci-fi themes, as far as I remember. Now these ROS here are quite a different animal of course. As already mentioned the so-called heavy parts sound pretentious - still, but I must admit that I do like some of the mellower, spacey parts. What really needs to be seen/or heard is : What are they gonna be able to pull off live and how ? Haven`t seen them live yet and maybe I won`t intend to do so.


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## hairychris (Aug 14, 2014)

WTF is that vibrato doing?

Dear god.


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## octatoan (Aug 14, 2014)

MetalSucks says they're crap.
Oh no, don't take my word for it. I just don't listen to them because their vocalist bleeds from the mouth in his videos, and I'm haemophobic :/


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## Captain Butterscotch (Aug 14, 2014)

Yup, those are notes alright.


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## Vhyle (Aug 14, 2014)

Lorcan Ward said:


> At this stage it shouldn't even be debated if ROS edit everything together in Pro Tools when they don't even try to mask it.


 
Yeah. It's pretty painful to hear this, actually. Lucas Mann and his cronies just need to stop altogether, if they don't give enough of a fukk to even hide anything. NOBODY will take them seriously.


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## SmackyChot (Aug 14, 2014)

Lucas is a douchenozzle. 

But I enjoyed this. Its chaotic, stupid, and fun. Some of the leads fit that alienskilleverythingomg sound. I hope he does more with this album like was done with Utopia on Dingir. But if I want deep feels, realism and perfect songwriting in my death metal, I'll go elsewhere. 

This just makes me want to invade a planet and slaughter the populace. 

To each his own, everyone.


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## mikah912 (Aug 14, 2014)

Funny thing is, I actually like the 8-bit sounding NES-core bits, especially the outro. The rest is just so silly and lifeless, tho...


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 14, 2014)

The two times I've seen them, they were nailing their shit dead on. Except for their (former) drummer the first time I saw them, that dude ....ing sucked  (the loser who started all the half speed recording nonsense).


As for Mann being a douche, he seemed like a nice guy talking to him at shows -shrug- seems mostly like that keeps being said simply because the internet decided it was so.


Oh well, this was the response to this thread I expected from here. Still find it hilarious how butthurt this band makes people. I totally get not liking the band's music, that is one thing. But just look at the responses in this thread and its clear some people seriously need to pull the rods out from their asses  I'm just glad this sort of negativity seems mostly confined to the microcosm of the internet. My hippy ass would go postal being around people this negative in the real world lol,


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## gorthul (Aug 14, 2014)

I have to say that their songwriting has improved. There were a few parts I really enjoyed.
That being said: it's still a mess and I would not listen to it again.


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## GiveUpGuitar (Aug 14, 2014)

I really like their vocalist. I really dislike the rest of it.


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## RoRo56 (Aug 14, 2014)

Am I right in saying the drummer who performed on the album/song is the guy from infant annihilator? It sounds exactly like his v-drums. In a lot of cases i understand the need for triggered bass drums but what this guy is doing is just laughable. Essentially just twitching his ankles and barely tipping the bass drum.


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## Drew (Aug 14, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> As for Mann being a douche, he seemed like a nice guy talking to him at shows -shrug- seems mostly like that keeps being said simply because the internet decided it was so.



I'm sure he's a perfectly lovely human being. If he keeps practicing and keeps up the hard work, one day he might even be able to play the music he writes in Guitar Pro. That'd really be something.


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## no_dice (Aug 14, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> The two times I've seen them, they were nailing their shit dead on. Except for their (former) drummer the first time I saw them, that dude ....ing sucked  (the loser who started all the half speed recording nonsense).



I saw them on the Slaughter Survivors tour, and my experience was pretty much like yours. The guitarists were on point, but the drummer was terrible, and the singer was annoying as shit.


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## ChubbyEwok (Aug 14, 2014)

Eh, I didn't really like it except for the end. I really liked how their song writing improved on Dingir (I enjoyed a couple of the songs on it) but unfortunately it feels like they've regressed writing wise except for the end (just my opinion, no hate intended). 

Edit: The more I listen to it the more I begin to dislike it. Oh well, I guess I'll just stick to the 4 songs I like from Dingir.


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 14, 2014)

no_dice said:


> I saw them on the Slaughter Survivors tour, and my experience was pretty much like yours. The guitarists were on point, but the drummer was terrible, and the singer was annoying as shit.



I thought that singers between song banter was funny personally lol. But yeah.


Also, signature win on your part


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## canuck brian (Aug 14, 2014)

Is it a common thing for djent/prog/whateverthehellgenrethisis bands to make the drums sound like Superior Drummer without humanize on purpose? 

There were some neat guitar parts, but the whole thing sounds like a big mess to me.

edit: spelling/grammar


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## no_dice (Aug 14, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> I thought that singers between song banter was funny personally lol. But yeah.
> 
> 
> Also, signature win on your part



I've seen bands on consecutive nights in different cities before and they had completely different attitudes with the crowd, so he could have been in a bad mood and was being a douche for all I know.


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## edsped (Aug 14, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> As for Mann being a douche, he seemed like a nice guy talking to him at shows -shrug- seems mostly like that keeps being said simply because the internet decided it was so.


That's what happens when you put up a "playthrough" demo vid using what is very clearly Guitar Pro MIDI audio and insist that it's a real guitar sound from a real guitar and insult people who call you out on your bullshit.


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## Icecold (Aug 14, 2014)

edsped said:


> That's what happens when you put up a "playthrough" demo vid using what is very clearly Guitar Pro MIDI audio and insist that it's a real guitar sound from a real guitar and insult people who call you out on your bullshit.




And ask for $20,000 for a solo album and refuse to work on it when the laughable goal isn't made.


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## MikeH (Aug 14, 2014)

I get that most bands' first releases have fairly poor quality in most cases. But every one of ROS's releases have sounded like pure shit. This is no different. The drums are bland and boring as far as sound goes, the guitars sound like utter crap. The vocalist is the only somewhat redeeming quality.

1/10, would not, nor will I ever bang.


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## crg123 (Aug 14, 2014)

Woah guys I just tried to tone match this track with my friends axe fx and the display turned into the Super Mario 3 load screen!


Edit: wow that was a nerdy joke...


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Aug 14, 2014)

i love everything ROS has ever released and this song is no exception. iv had it on constantly since its been released. Lugal Ki En is definitely going to be AOTY for me


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## Bloody_Inferno (Aug 15, 2014)

SmackyChot said:


> This just makes me want to invade a planet and slaughter the populace.


 
It does seem like an appropriate soundtrack.


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## Nats (Aug 15, 2014)

SmackyChot said:


> This just makes me want to invade a planet and slaughter the populace.



Oh come on. It's bad and all. But to want to invade a planet and kill innocent people because of how bad it is? That's a little extreme.


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## Maniacal (Aug 15, 2014)

Would love to see this band live. Comedy slop fest.


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## SD83 (Aug 15, 2014)

Just tried to listen to Dingir and... the guitars in the new song might sound like reamped midi files at some time, but that is still a progress compared to those in Dingir which sound like unedited guitar pro midi...


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 15, 2014)

whats with the digitally added vibrato on some of these lead parts?


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## Randy (Aug 15, 2014)

GunpointMetal said:


> whats with the digitally added vibrato on some of these lead parts?



Just trying to match the rest of the track?


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 15, 2014)

You'ld think more time would have been put into making sound like someone actually played it, instead of making it sound like something recorded an octave lower and then played back at 200%....not saying thats what happened, but WTF is with the vibrato....When I first heard this I actually thought "Hey, RoS did something that I didn't turn off in 15 seconds!" but now all I can hear is that stupid flutter and the inhuman kick patterns.....


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## Slunk Dragon (Aug 15, 2014)

As a guitar player, these guys make no sense. All of their parts are obviously so edited and/or not even real guitar parts that it's insulting that they try to mime along with this stuff.

It's different, that's for sure, but guitar acting just isn't cool, and it does nobody any good. No matter how flashy your guitars are.


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## Nats (Aug 15, 2014)

ROS jam session found online!


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## flaik (Aug 15, 2014)

Drew said:


> I'm sure he's a perfectly lovely human being. If he keeps practicing and keeps up the hard work, one day he might even be able to play the music he writes in Guitar Pro. That'd really be something.



I hate to break it to you and almost everyone in this thread, but, they actually pull their shit off really well live. I've seen them twice and I had alot of fun during their sets.

I think a lot of of people are taking their music a bit too serious. This stuff isnt groundbreaking or progressive in any way to me, but I enjoy the weird, dissonant, stupid, and crazy parts. I just take it for what it is.


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## DarkWolfXV (Aug 16, 2014)

I actually like it. Very lulzy/Infant Annihilator-like, but with semi-random ambidjent parts. Vocalist sounds like he's trying hard to be Luke Griffin from Acrania though.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Aug 16, 2014)

^ i dont even like Acrania that much but hearing Luke use some of his crazier vocal styles on a ROS song would be killer!

i cant believe people still complain about ROS not sounding human when thats the exact effect that they're going for. you'd think that after 2 albums of inhuman sounding music people would get that.


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## oracles (Aug 16, 2014)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> i cant believe people still complain about ROS not sounding human when thats the exact effect that they're going for. you'd think that after 2 albums of inhuman sounding music people would get that.



Thats not the problem we have with it. It's the fact that the audio sounds like a directly reamped midi file, and things like variation in pick attack aren't present, which is an indication that the audio is not being legitimately played, rather played back through a program such as guitar pro.

They fall genre wise in a field where technical proficiency is widely respected, and with no tolerance for pretenders, due to the time and effort it took these musicians to reach that level of technical ability in their playing. 

Coupled with Lucas' failed solo project which was laden with narcissism and a stunningly arrogant (and entirely laughable) attempt to deny the obvious once he had been caught out, it's not hard to understand why people don't take hm seriously.


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## ForThisGift (Aug 16, 2014)

If what they were trying to do was stir up shit, then they are a great band. If they were trying to make well-received guitar wankery, then they have failed miserably. After I heard this current abortion I went back and listened to some of their catalog... I am not certain they have EVER written a song; if they have, I was unable to find it. 

There are plenty of bands displaying truly technical playing while still managing to craft songs. This is just pretentious, virtuoso musical terrorism that the band didn't even take the time to actual perform! How can you be SO wrapped up in writing technically challenging parts (for no ones benefit in the first place) that you have abandoned all attempts to make a song and then not even play the parts?


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## flaik (Aug 16, 2014)

I just noticed lucas is wearing an "I love haters hat" hahaha
Coincidence or direct reference to the SSO hate? you decide.


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 16, 2014)

sticks still firmly lodged in asses.


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## Necris (Aug 16, 2014)

^ I'm pretty sure I'd rather have a stick in my ass than Rings of Saturn coming out of my speakers.


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## JoeyW (Aug 16, 2014)

Why does he wear that stupid hat for everything?

I actually like what ROS does, and their vocalist is rad. Zero structure though, it literally goes no where. Just Idea 1/Idea 2/Idea 3/etc, etc... Also, the production is the exact opposite of what I like so I don't think it'll get too many spins. I used to want to give Lucas the benefit of the doubt as far as being somewhat capable of playing the material but you'd think there'd be actual raw footage of him playing by now, even @#!*% potato cam from some kid in a music store. I mean, the stuff is definitely technical but rhythmically it's not spectacular or even "out there" and definitely nothing a few hours with a metronome couldn't remedy, I feel like it just chalks up to entitled laziness that is present in a lot of musicians.


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## fps (Aug 16, 2014)

Hilarious how the video pulls away during the obviously impossible bends and how much of this is clearly computer generated not played. These guys really need to stop pretending they are producing this music with their instruments and playing. 

Still I enjoyed it.


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## Sonicboom (Aug 17, 2014)

To all the negative comments...

Ever thought that the guitars are processed to high heaven. it serves a purpose. it is the sound THEY want for the album. It is RoS afterall. I like it. They have a niche that they fill...

But yeah, Haters gonna Hate. LOL. 

I'm not gonna listen to this ALL the time but sometimes you are in the mood for some crazy ass tech and this hits the spot


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## Icecold (Aug 17, 2014)

ForThisGift said:


> If what they were trying to do was stir up shit, then they are a great band. If they were trying to make well-received guitar wankery, then they have failed miserably.



That is Andy Kaufman level of Genius and I highly doubt that is what happened.


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## Ed_Ibanez_Shred (Aug 17, 2014)

*yawns* I can't believe people still cry about bands (allegedly) using editing etc to make music. IDGAF if he can't play what he writes, I don't tend to worry about that kind of thing. Instead I just enjoy the music.


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## edsped (Aug 17, 2014)

I don't care if guitarists can't actually play guitar!


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 17, 2014)

Fortunately, they pull off their material live pretty flawlessly. And all these accusations are suspect at best.


Where's all the outrage at Pink Floyd for recording at reduced speed and speeding up?


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## Icecold (Aug 17, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> Fortunately, they pull off their material live pretty flawlessly. And all these accusations are suspect at best.
> 
> 
> Where's all the outrage at Pink Floyd for recording at reduced speed and speeding up?



Once again, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKoJ9ywUDu8 . No guitar sounds like that. 

Gotta take into account when someone posts a video of that, then wants $20 grand for a solo album and then refuse to make it when the goal isn't met you are not going to be making many friends. It's not a matter of people having "Sticks up their asses". Rings of Saturn is pretty damn poor in the public relations department and haven't exactly done anything to save face when the accusations came along. The doubt is always going to be there. 

There is a huge difference between Pink Floyd recording at half speed and Rings of Saturn allegedly recording at half speed. When you record onto Tape at half speed it actually changes the pitch. Pink Floyd was using it as an effect, not using it as a crutch. 

The issue with the idea of RoS recording at half speed in Pro Tools or any other DAW is that they play music that is presented as "Technically Demanding."(you can throw any label you want, but the entire point of their music is that) And as such seen as fraudulent.


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## Dana (Aug 17, 2014)

Sounded cool to me.


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## Dr Zoidberg (Aug 18, 2014)

I like some of Rings of Saturn's material, but this isn't really my cup of tea. If I want off-the-wall extreme tech, I tend to go with Viraemia or Archspire. Don't understand the amount of hate that RoS gets, though.

They're obviously going for a processed, semi-electronic type sound, and they've clearly achieved that. Why does it matter if it was done with real guitars with processing applied afterwards, if they recorded the guitars at half speed, or even if it's all MIDI? The end product's what matters, and apparently they're happy with their end product, even if it doesn't happen to align with my tastes.

That being said, if they're charging money for live shows, I'd expect them to play well live. From what others who've actually been to their shows have said, it sounds like they can pull all their material off cleanly, so good on them.

Still, Lucas Mann's clearly got a greatly overinflated ego. I lost a lot of respect for him after the whole solo album debacle.


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## crg123 (Aug 18, 2014)

It's funny I decided to take a listen to dingir again. I mean the drums are ....ing awful but knowing that they almost wanted that kind of production most of the tone is understandble(besides those ....ing drums....)

They kind of wanted that synthetic almost alien approach to production (in-human) so I guess what I'm trying to say is while it's something I won't be listening to on a regular basis at least it tries to be different . It's not the best and agree stuff like viraemia will always rule that genre.

P.s. I'll never stop laughing at lucas's guitar pro solo album campaign. So I'm still with you guys on that.


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## Wildebeest (Aug 18, 2014)

I like it, and I like the sound they're going for. Sounds like aliens bro.


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## Nats (Aug 19, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> Fortunately, they pull off their material live pretty flawlessly. And all these accusations are suspect at best.
> 
> 
> Where's all the outrage at Pink Floyd for recording at reduced speed and speeding up?



I'd like to see YOU try playing those blast beats on Comfortably Numb at normal speed.


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 19, 2014)

Nats said:


> I'd like to see YOU try playing those blast beats on Comfortably Numb at normal speed.


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## gunch (Aug 19, 2014)

FWIW the angry aliens arguing and chattering sound in Dingir was kind of cool.

Doesn't excuse Lucas Whathisface for being a a dork though.


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## Xarn (Aug 19, 2014)

Honestly, can't believe people are still arguing about stuff like this. Who really cares about how he records it?

Obviously everything is basically recorded note for note to get the most ultratight sound possible. But then again, people on this forum are the same people who kept saying The Haarp Machine wasn't recording their guitars note for note. I can still see people saying Within The ruins latest record isn't done in the same way...I mean come on? These three records have basically the absolute same sort of tightness. The sort of tightness and lack of feel that you can only get by recording exactly everything note for note


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## fps (Aug 19, 2014)

Xarn said:


> Honestly, can't believe people are still arguing about stuff like this. Who really cares about how he records it?
> 
> Obviously everything is basically recorded note for note to get the most ultratight sound possible. But then again, people on this forum are the same people who kept saying The Haarp Machine wasn't recording their guitars note for note. I can still see people saying Within The ruins latest record isn't done in the same way...I mean come on? These three records have basically the absolute same sort of tightness. The sort of tightness and lack of feel that you can only get by recording exactly everything note for note



Lots of people care. Very obviously, lots of people care.


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## Dana (Aug 19, 2014)

Xarn said:


> Honestly, can't believe people are still arguing about stuff like this. Who really cares about how he records it?
> 
> Obviously everything is basically recorded note for note to get the most ultratight sound possible. But then again, people on this forum are the same people who kept saying The Haarp Machine wasn't recording their guitars note for note. I can still see people saying Within The ruins latest record isn't done in the same way...I mean come on? These three records have basically the absolute same sort of tightness. The sort of tightness and lack of feel that you can only get by recording exactly everything note for note



I think a lot people on this forum get more enjoyment out of picking everything apart and finding things they don't like than just enjoying the music. I mean, yeah some music just plain ol sucks... 
Mostly people resort to picking apart the sounds or whatever. It's silly if you ask me.
I grew up in a time when metal wasn't popular, so I appreciate most if it. There are exceptions of course, but to pick stuff apart like that? Nope.

Metal isn't the cool underground stuff it used to be.


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## gunch (Aug 19, 2014)

Xarn said:


> Honestly, can't believe people are still arguing about stuff like this. Who really cares about how he records it?
> 
> Obviously everything is basically recorded note for note to get the most ultratight sound possible. But then again, people on this forum are the same people who kept saying The Haarp Machine wasn't recording their guitars note for note. I can still see people saying Within The ruins latest record isn't done in the same way...I mean come on? These three records have basically the absolute same sort of tightness. The sort of tightness and lack of feel that you can only get by recording exactly everything note for note



Punching it in note for note and noise gating something to hell and back is well and good, hell, I _LOVE_ Haarp Machine's sound. But Al was trying to pull a fast one and that obviously burned a lot of asses. That drama spell might've gone over a lot easier if he "disclosed" (hue) that stuff from the outset.

Personally I don't mind the utilization of outside help to reach your end goal or product, but if you try to come out as this ultra bad ass guitar dark horse that's kind of 

Same argument with photobashers and people that use photo textures and brushes in digital painting and concept art, some guys need that stuff to deliver their concepts to the art director before deadlines while the uninitiated are screaming FRAUD, WTF from the sidelines...

Or even Camera Obscura and gridding off that the old masters like Da Vinci or Durer used


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 19, 2014)

Dana said:


> I think a lot people on this forum get more enjoyment out of picking everything apart and finding things they don't like than just enjoying the music. I mean, yeah some music just plain ol sucks...
> Mostly people resort to picking apart the sounds or whatever. It's silly if you ask me.
> I grew up in a time when metal wasn't popular, so I appreciate most if it. There are exceptions of course, but to pick stuff apart like that? Nope.
> 
> Metal isn't the cool underground stuff it used to be.




SSO: where if you aren't bitching about the music, you're bitching about the production


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## edsped (Aug 19, 2014)

This is technical music. The HAARP Machine is (was, whatever) technical music. That's a large part of the appeal and to try to claim that it isn't would just be disingenuous. 

When these people are recording shit at half speed, quarter speed, note by note, reamping MIDI audio from Guitar Pro, whatever it is that they're doing, they're being deceitful. They're creating the illusion of being technical guitarists who play technical music to appeal to that audience and then they hide behind backing tracks live and do fake "playthrough" videos and it takes away from the people who can actually play the difficult shit that they write for real, on a real instrument, in real life. 

I don't care what studio tricks you use to create whatever sounds you want to hear, but when you're just doing it to give the illusion of being really technically proficient at your instrument I think it's bullshit and I think a lot of people feel the same way.


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## Icecold (Aug 19, 2014)

edsped said:


> This is technical music. The HAARP Machine is (was, whatever) technical music. That's a large part of the appeal and to try to claim that it isn't would just be disingenuous.
> 
> When these people are recording shit at half speed, quarter speed, note by note, reamping MIDI audio from Guitar Pro, whatever it is that they're doing, they're being deceitful. They're creating the illusion of being technical guitarists who play technical music to appeal to that audience and then they hide behind backing tracks live and do fake "playthrough" videos and it takes away from the people who can actually play the difficult shit that they write for real, on a real instrument, in real life.
> 
> I don't care what studio tricks you use to create whatever sounds you want to hear, but when you're just doing it to give the illusion of being really technically proficient at your instrument I think it's bullshit and I think a lot of people feel the same way.



Exactly. 

Rings of Saturn's Audio Engineer must love the hell out of them, that kind of editing takes hours. I outright refuse to do it when I would record bands because it can clock up to thousands of dollars in time, and they don't have to means to pay for that.


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## Dana (Aug 19, 2014)

Doesn't really bother me...
I just enjoy the sounds they've created regardless.


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 19, 2014)

They pull there stuff off live no issue. Everyone keeps ignoring that fact  whatever they may or may not do in the studio is a moot point


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## bioniczero (Aug 19, 2014)

I can see both sides of the argument on this one. Obviously they're not as outright talented on their instruments as someone who can play it through in one go, but I view it kind of like electronic music - they sort of create their music through any means necessary. And if that's what it takes to create music that matches your vision, go for it!


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## Demiurge (Aug 19, 2014)

Sometimes, advances in technology can immediately identify its limitations: you can manipulate a performance to make it sound better than it was played, but you can't Milli-Vanilli songcraft yet.


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## Icecold (Aug 19, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> They pull there stuff off live no issue. Everyone keeps ignoring that fact  whatever they may or may not do in the studio is a moot point




That is some amazing, super human level of hearing you attain, because it is almost impossible to tell what is being hit correctly and what's not at a club show. I've seen Vital Remains, Suffocation, and Obscura in clubs and with or without ear plugs I couldn't tell what was being hit and what wasn't. So I have to say I'm quite impressed that Rings of Saturn fans have evolved to such point that they can actually hear all of those nuances especially given that their music is arranged such that when they do play live it would be really hard to tell what was going on anyways. So kudos. 

I'm being serious, though, if they were really that good, and could pull their stuff off note by note as you are implying, why does their music demand such a high amount of processing in the studio? Why does Lucas Mann have to demo his music with a Guitar Pro track and insist that it is really him playing, even though it is very obvious that he's not? 

This isn't something that has always been done, this is a Modern Era of Digital Recording issue. Megadeth had to record Rust in Peace to tape, they had to be able to play that material well enough to track to something that wears and disintegrates after a handful of times recording. They couldn't just fix the mistakes on a laptop. Jason Becker had to be good enough to play Speed Metal Symphony to actually track it, he couldn't just Audio to MIDI that and quantize it later. 

So sum up my thoughts on this band is Branford Marsalis on what he learns from his students these days:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rz2jRHA9fo&list=UUGN51089zZpAo0X99btvaDA


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## Dana (Aug 19, 2014)

C'mon man, vital is just sloppy. Why even compare them with anything. Tony is not a tight player in the remotest.
Suffocation just don't have the right sound to articulate what they're doing live.
Your comparisons are just not making sense to me
Basically you're saying, hey I couldn't understand what these guys were playing live so there's no way you guys can hear what ros are doing live..? Silly


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## Icecold (Aug 19, 2014)

Dana said:


> C'mon man, vital is just sloppy. Why even compare them with anything. Tony is not a tight player in the remotest.
> Suffocation just don't have the right sound to articulate what they're doing live.
> Your comparisons are just not making sense to me



Then you missed the point entirely. Bands that have that much going on in their music make it very difficult to hear what is going on in a live setting unless they have amazing sound people. RoS is a band that does not use Dynamics, space, or any kind of clever arrangements other than a cacophony.
There is a reason why in Music Composition classes USING SPACE has such a strong emphasis, case in point, Septic Flesh.

A perfect example of space being used in Technical Metal is Lost Soul's Immerse in Infinity: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y6ni_JXfok


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## Dana (Aug 19, 2014)

I always prefer studio recordings to live shows, so I really could care less.


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 20, 2014)

I can't even tell if you're being for real or not dude  the more you post the more it seems you're just trolling lol.

We get it, you don't like RoS and think they're posers, you've made your point abundantly clear in your multiple posts in this thread. By all means continue to obsess and fixate over music that you dislike, but I personally prefer talking about things I enjoy , and I'm quite tired of nonsensical arguments


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## Icecold (Aug 20, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> I can't even tell if you're being for real or not dude  the more you post the more it seems you're just trolling lol.
> 
> We get it, you don't like RoS and think they're posers, you've made your point abundantly clear in your multiple posts in this thread. By all means continue to obsess and fixate over music that you dislike, but I personally prefer talking about things I enjoy , and I'm quite tired of nonsensical arguments




I'm completely serious. 

I'll put it like this, you say something like "No one complained that Pink Floyd did X" then I tell you why you're wrong, you say "But they can pull their music off live" and I tell you why that's silly. People are going to interact with you on the internet whether they like something or not. 

The majority of SSrg users dislike RoS, you knew that.


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## spawnofthesith (Aug 20, 2014)

Actually, you're incorrect about your pink floyd comment is incorrect. I have no doubt that they've used speed manipulation as a pitch effect during their career, but that's not what I was referring to. Your comment about live shows is simply outrageous. I guess if I was some sheep I'd allow other people's taste in music affect mine, but that's not how I roll. But again, by all means continue posting about how much you dislike the band, I'm not asking you to stop. But I'm tired of responding to your silly posts.


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## Icecold (Aug 20, 2014)

spawnofthesith said:


> Actually, you're incorrect about your pink floyd comment is incorrect. I have no doubt that they've used speed manipulation as a pitch effect during their career, but that's not what I was referring to. Your comment about live shows is simply outrageous. I guess if I was some sheep I'd allow other people's taste in music affect mine, but that's not how I roll. But again, by all means continue posting about how much you dislike the band, I'm not asking you to stop. But I'm tired of responding to your silly posts.




There is a difference between using Tape Speed manipulation as an effect and quantizing every single note(something that can only be done with Digital recordings) to give a perception of "Tightness". Like I said before, the level of editing that bands do today is something that could only be accomplished with current technology. So to bring up Pink Floyd in all of this in the first place is simply not understanding the difference between Now and Then. 

When it comes to live shows, I stand by what I said. You can sit there and go "THAT'S SIMPLY OUTRAGEOUS!" but it's true, it's difficult to tell what the hell is going on with Metal bands and Clubs. 

So here is the thing, I've done Live Sound, I've tracked to Tape, I've done Digital Sessions that had to be edited to hell and back, I've taken Music Composition courses. I know what I'm talking about. If what I say sounds "Silly" to you, that's your problem.


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## mcsalty (Aug 20, 2014)

There's obviously no excuses or justification for Lucas Mann's RSE playthrough disaster, but try to remember that over-edited "fake" production isn't the same thing as pretending a GP6 file is a studio-recorded track. We already had a thread for that mishap, this is a whole different issue. 

People here seem to be forgetting (and sometimes blatantly ignoring) the fact that extremely processed, artificial, overall inhuman-sounding production is exactly what the band is trying to accomplish; it's perfectly in line with their whole overlying theme/gimmick. They're not exactly trying to make their recordings sound "natural" or even "human," they're not trying to make you believe otherwise (aforementioned solo project notwithstanding), and they are absolutely capable of actually performing the material, which is another point everyone seems to be blatantly ignoring. They aren't my favourite band by any means, but people aren't exactly being reasonable about this.

TLDR; don't hate an apple for not tasting like an orange


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## ForThisGift (Aug 20, 2014)

This particular apple happens to taste like a shit sandwich... I think that is what has everyone riled up.


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## VigilSerus (Aug 20, 2014)

McSalty hit the nail on the head. I'd like to kind of reiterate what Misha has said about recording guitars and music and such, that you should do what it takes to get music the way you like it to sound. The problem lies in honesty about the music. If Lucas can truly play what he makes, perhaps the sound he is going for is the ultra-tight, midi-like sound? People forget the true reason behind music is to make something that sounds good to you and yourself. Fans and such are usually a welcomed luxury.


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## Dana (Aug 20, 2014)

I wonder if these guys get this upset about movies too. That's all fake.


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## Cyn__Theia (Aug 20, 2014)

Dana said:


> I wonder if these guys get this upset about movies too. That's all fake.



While I completely understand the notion of the intention behind trying to achieve a sound and concept like they have established, the comparison to movies is not a valid one. It's widely understood by most every human being exposed to media that movies are fake; an individual watching a movie goes in with an anticipatory level of something called a "suspension of disbelief". That's part of the experience.

The same level of anticipation doesn't exist as a prerequisite to enjoy music. Not every music listener is aware of the concept and/or completely disregards the attempt at what any given musician(s) or band may be trying to accomplish, and more often than not, completely ignores the idea of a similar suspension of disbelief within music. There is a predisposition there that is dictating their interest. This is not saying there is anything wrong with that, as music tends to be a widely subjective experience. This is why you have individuals clamoring over and reiterating the"it's fake" accusations or the "it's not fake" styled defenses.


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## Nats (Aug 20, 2014)

Dana said:


> I wonder if these guys get this upset about movies too. That's all fake.



Rings of Saturn was the finishing move of wrestler Perry Saturn. Wrestling is fake. Rings of Saturn are accused of being fake. I think this all ties in somehow.


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## Dana (Aug 20, 2014)

No well thought out explanation of anything is gonna make me change my mind that I like Ros. Lucas Mann is a great player.


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## ForThisGift (Aug 20, 2014)

Nats said:


> Rings of Saturn was the finishing move of wrestler Perry Saturn. Wrestling is fake. Rings of Saturn are accused of being fake. I think this all ties in somehow.



I see a possible Illuminati correlation here as well. 

While I will freely admit that Lucas Mann is a way better guitar player than I am, or probably ever will be, there is still something to be said for someone being arrogant and conniving with an apparent inflated sense of self accomplishment...

He plays guitar, and not even authentically I might add. If you want to be regarded as one of the best technical players then don't cook the guitar performances. Anyone talking about the bands "preference" for the re-amped midi sounds coming through my speakers is really giving these guys an out. If that is their intended sound and they are such phenomenally talented players then why not get to a level where you can capture performances as such. That might be a bit more impressive, even if it still resulted in the same god-awful sounds.


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## Dana (Aug 20, 2014)

I don't think Lucas cares if other musicians are impressed.


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## Dana (Aug 20, 2014)

maybe he does... who knows. i know i am done listening to this nonsense about whether they're good or not or whatever... have fun debating pointlessly in here I'm out


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## Dr Zoidberg (Aug 20, 2014)

ForThisGift said:


> I see a possible Illuminati correlation here as well.
> 
> While I will freely admit that Lucas Mann is a way better guitar player than I am, or probably ever will be, there is still something to be said for someone being arrogant and conniving with an apparent inflated sense of self accomplishment...
> 
> He plays guitar, and not even authentically I might add. If you want to be regarded as one of the best technical players then don't cook the guitar performances. Anyone talking about the bands "preference" for the re-amped midi sounds coming through my speakers is really giving these guys an out. *If that is their intended sound and they are such phenomenally talented players then why not get to a level where you can capture performances as such.* That might be a bit more impressive, even if it still resulted in the same god-awful sounds.



Wait, what? If you think that it's possible for them to play so good they can get that note-by-note sound without processing, how do you know they haven't already done it?

You can't simultaneously argue that RoS is fake because their sound is impossible with a natural recording and that they should be able to achieve the same sound by using a natural recording.


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## ForThisGift (Aug 21, 2014)

You could still perform AND edit, as opposed to editing a midi file to begin with... I guess I understand that I wasn't as articulate as I could have been, but c'mon. My point is that you should be editing your best performances of the material if what you are after is a super tight production, not just bullshitting the entire process by trying to skip the performance portion entirely.


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## xwmucradiox (Aug 21, 2014)

Art is art. Its an aesthetic creation and I personally don't care how it is created if the end result is cool. Having played in a band with somewhat similar aesthetic qualities in the past I can tell you that most of the riffs in ROS songs are not particularly difficult to play and the speed is completely attainable with a bit of practice, which these guys obviously manage since their live shows are clean. 

And I seriously doubt anyone making this style of music is literally making a take for each note in the song. That's incredibly unrealistic and would be significantly harder than just playing the riffs.


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## Dr Zoidberg (Aug 22, 2014)

ForThisGift said:


> You could still perform AND edit, as opposed to editing a midi file to begin with... I guess I understand that I wasn't as articulate as I could have been, but c'mon. My point is that you should be editing your best performances of the material if what you are after is a super tight production, not just bullshitting the entire process by trying to skip the performance portion entirely.



Again though, what evidence is there that this is not exactly what they're already doing?

If they're performing live (and apparently performing well), they certainly aren't trying to skip the performance portion entirely.

I'm not trying to jump down your throat here or anything, sorry if I came off that way. I just think RoS (and some other bands) get a lot of hate for not being something they're not trying to be.


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## Icecold (Aug 23, 2014)

Nats said:


> Rings of Saturn was the finishing move of wrestler Perry Saturn. Wrestling is fake. Rings of Saturn are accused of being fake. I think this all ties in somehow.



Dammit....

Chris Jericho also forced him to wear a dress..... and I'm a Jericho-holic. I need to hit the lab and figure this out.


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## Nats (Aug 23, 2014)

Icecold said:


> Dammit....
> 
> Chris Jericho also forced him to wear a dress..... and I'm a Jericho-holic. I need to hit the lab and figure this out.



After I made that post I was looking at his wiki page and it was saying that no one could find him for a couple of years and they all thought he was dead. When he resurfaced he said he was on meth and homeless all that time. I'm reminded all the time that there's nothing sadder than the life of a retired pro wrestler.


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## fps (Aug 23, 2014)

ForThisGift said:


> I see a possible Illuminati correlation here as well.
> 
> While I will freely admit that Lucas Mann is a way better guitar player than I am, or probably ever will be, there is still something to be said for someone being arrogant and conniving with an apparent inflated sense of self accomplishment...
> 
> He plays guitar, and not even authentically I might add. If you want to be regarded as one of the best technical players then don't cook the guitar performances. Anyone talking about the bands "preference" for the re-amped midi sounds coming through my speakers is really giving these guys an out. If that is their intended sound and they are such phenomenally talented players then why not get to a level where you can capture performances as such. That might be a bit more impressive, even if it still resulted in the same god-awful sounds.



There is no such thing as an uncooked studio guitar performance in modern metal. It's just about how far you want to take it.


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## Icecold (Aug 23, 2014)

Nats said:


> After I made that post I was looking at his wiki page and it was saying that no one could find him for a couple of years and they all thought he was dead. When he resurfaced he said he was on meth and homeless all that time. I'm reminded all the time that there's nothing sadder than the life of a retired pro wrestler.



Not even gunna try to turn this into something about Pro Wrestling, but just wanna get this in, those guys end up like retired circus animals. I mean, hell, look at Ric Flair.


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## ForThisGift (Aug 23, 2014)

Retired circus animals have it WAY BETTER than washed up wrestling stars...Way Better.


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## danresn (Aug 23, 2014)

stevexc said:


> Can't say I'm a fan. It still sounds like a midi file that was reamped. Now, I'm not accusing them of actually doing that, but that's what it ends up sounding like and I am not a fan of it.



I can't believe how accurately this describes the song


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## Nats (Aug 23, 2014)

Someone needs to start an "adopt a former pro wrestler" program. Hmm, maybe I'll kickstart it!


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## Demiurge (Aug 23, 2014)

Nats said:


> Someone needs to start an "adopt a former pro wrestler" program. Hmm, maybe I'll kickstart it!



I'd try to think of a wrestler I'd adopt, but then I'm afraid of looking them up and finding that they died in their 40's.


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## DarkWolfXV (Aug 23, 2014)

Anyone who says that this or new Within the Ruins is "midi" or "programmed guitar" is, I'm sorry, dumb and out of touch with this world. As someone who actually does a lot of recording, I know that it's impossible for a midi guitar to sound like this. The most realistic one I've heard can't be tuned to DROP FVCKING C AN OCTAVE LOWER, but merely to "standard" E standard, and if you pitch shifted it that far it'd sound like absolute shit. You could reamp guitar pro 6's RSE, but the results don't sound like a real guitar in the slightest (Lucas Mann's solo project _might_ be gp6, however, but definitely not this or WTR). What is done here is that everything is recorded note-by-note, as in you hit record, pluck one note or more (doesn't even have to be DI and reamped later, you can just use a straight amp sound), stop recording, cut notes to size and set them in the grid, with slight fades connecting the notes, and then repeat until you're done. Record pick scrapes, "rakes" and bends by punching in with a 4-click before the place you want the note in. Same with pull offs, hammer ons and tapping, although you can also use half (or whatever) speed for that and then speed it up to the desired tempo (These are best not recorded note by note because it's hard to fabricate the smooth transition of these notes). If you want it to sound realistic, every note must be unique (as in, no copying parts and individual notes) and you have to place every note by hand, with the slightest offsets in the grid, not resorting to quantizing. The cons of this is obviously that the method is time consuming. The pros however, you get a performance that is extremely tight, with no mistakes, guitars that are recorded note-by-note sound clearer due to notes not blending into eachother and each note having defined attack, guitars can be recorded to have extremely consistent dynamics without the use of a compressor meaning that you can set your gain lower and still have a powerful sound, resulting in more clarity and punch (due to square wave rectification not mangling your signal nearly as much). Most of the "fakeness" of RoS's guitar sound is the lulzy, dissonant, alien-like riffs they play and the speed they play them at. If a slam song was recorded note-by-note, smothered in the amount of gain usual for the genre, no one would ever notice.


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## Icecold (Aug 24, 2014)

ForThisGift said:


> Retired circus animals have it WAY BETTER than washed up wrestling stars...Way Better.




This is the Truth.


----------



## Kwert (Aug 24, 2014)

DarkWolfXV said:


> Anyone who says that this or new Within the Ruins is "midi" or "programmed guitar" is, I'm sorry, dumb and out of touch with this world. As someone who actually does a lot of recording, I know that it's impossible for a midi guitar to sound like this. The most realistic one I've heard can't be tuned to DROP FVCKING C AN OCTAVE LOWER, but merely to "standard" E standard, and if you pitch shifted it that far it'd sound like absolute shit. You could reamp guitar pro 6's RSE, but the results don't sound like a real guitar in the slightest (Lucas Mann's solo project _might_ be gp6, however, but definitely not this or WTR). What is done here is that everything is recorded note-by-note, as in you hit record, pluck one note or more (doesn't even have to be DI and reamped later, you can just use a straight amp sound), stop recording, cut notes to size and set them in the grid, with slight fades connecting the notes, and then repeat until you're done. Record pick scrapes, "rakes" and bends by punching in with a 4-click before the place you want the note in. Same with pull offs, hammer ons and tapping, although you can also use half (or whatever) speed for that and then speed it up to the desired tempo (These are best not recorded note by note because it's hard to fabricate the smooth transition of these notes). If you want it to sound realistic, every note must be unique (as in, no copying parts and individual notes) and you have to place every note by hand, with the slightest offsets in the grid, not resorting to quantizing. The cons of this is obviously that the method is time consuming. The pros however, you get a performance that is extremely tight, with no mistakes, guitars that are recorded note-by-note sound clearer due to notes not blending into eachother and each note having defined attack, guitars can be recorded to have extremely consistent dynamics without the use of a compressor meaning that you can set your gain lower and still have a powerful sound, resulting in more clarity and punch (due to square wave rectification not mangling your signal nearly as much). Most of the "fakeness" of RoS's guitar sound is the lulzy, dissonant, alien-like riffs they play and the speed they play them at. If a slam song was recorded note-by-note, smothered in the amount of gain usual for the genre, no one would ever notice.




Why the hell would you ever want to record music in that manner? Is this what people find appealing to listen to now? Tightness is great and all, but doing things that way essentially takes the human element out of making music. You're not really creating something compelling, in the moment, when you're punching in note by note.


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## Vhyle (Aug 24, 2014)

Kwert said:


> Why the hell would you ever want to record music in that manner? Is this what people find appealing to listen to now? Tightness is great and all, but doing things that way essentially takes the human element out of making music. You're not really creating something compelling, in the moment, when you're punching in note by note.



So much this. Anyone who does record in that manner, has lost a lot of respect in my eyes. And I personally grew out of the robotic sound stage years ago. I like my metal to sound like it was captured by humans, not fscking Nintendo-brain alien dickbags from the planet Zarlon, like these guys are doing.

If you want to tighten up your playing in your recordings, practice your parts more. It's as simple as that.

And if it's of any merit - I record a lot of music as well.


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## fps (Aug 24, 2014)

Kwert said:


> Why the hell would you ever want to record music in that manner? Is this what people find appealing to listen to now? Tightness is great and all, but doing things that way essentially takes the human element out of making music. You're not really creating something compelling, in the moment, when you're punching in note by note.



Surely this is up to the individual artist.

We're talking on a forum where flipping Meshuggah are the godparents of the favoured style, and there are complaints about taking the human element out.


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## Kwert (Aug 24, 2014)

fps said:


> Surely this is up to the individual artist.
> 
> We're talking on a forum where flipping Meshuggah are the godparents of the favoured style, and there are complaints about taking the human element out.




You're not wrong, it is up to the individual artist. 

Maybe I'm a traditionalist though, and given my musical background I feel that what makes a performance, whether it be recorded or live, interesting and captivating are the individual subtleties and nuances of the performers. 

I know this is personal opinion, and not everyone will have the same viewpoint, but I find it hard to understand how people could find overly processed, same-y sounding recordings interesting in any way beyond "Wow that's technically impressive." Technical wizardry is not making music.

In regards to Meshuggah, their earlier material had this really pissed off, ballsy feel and sound to it. There was aggressiveness in the playing that I feel bands like RoS lack - and that's what I would qualify as the human element.

People have been comparing how RoS does things to electronic music. Good electronic music still manages to create a sense of atmosphere and intent, whereas stuff like this does not (again, just my opinion).


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## fps (Aug 24, 2014)

Kwert said:


> You're not wrong, it is up to the individual artist.
> 
> Maybe I'm a traditionalist though, and given my musical background I feel that what makes a performance, whether it be recorded or live, interesting and captivating are the individual subtleties and nuances of the performers.
> 
> ...



I agree, in that I am not really a big fan of ultra-processed, quantized, de-humanised stuff. Djent, for instance, I just can't, I've tried with many bands, and the production in particular I just can't get on with, it's a barrier. 

Yet I find something appealing about that approach taken to its logical conclusion with this band though, I can't help it!


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## Dr Zoidberg (Aug 24, 2014)

I dunno. Criticizing Rings of Saturn for not sounding "human" is like criticizing Meshuggah for not writing catchy choruses, or criticizing Deathspell Omega for not being cheerful enough. I mean, it's totally fine to not like a band for a reason like that, but it doesn't make them an objectively bad band; it just means that you're not their target audience.


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## fps (Aug 25, 2014)

Dr Zoidberg said:


> I dunno. Criticizing Rings of Saturn for not sounding "human" is like criticizing Meshuggah for not writing catchy choruses, or criticizing Deathspell Omega for not being cheerful enough. I mean, it's totally fine to not like a band for a reason like that, but it doesn't make them an objectively bad band; it just means that you're not their target audience.



Agree in general, but the point surely isn't an audience, it's that this is how they want to make their music.


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## Dr Zoidberg (Aug 25, 2014)

fps said:


> Agree in general, but the point surely isn't an audience, it's that this is how they want to make their music.



Yes, good point, I could have phrased that better. I suppose by "audience" I meant the people that like the music that the musicians want to make - but of course this is a secondary motivation and doesn't actively shape the style of the music.


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## DarkWolfXV (Aug 29, 2014)

Kwert said:


> Why the hell would you ever want to record music in that manner? Is this what people find appealing to listen to now? Tightness is great and all, but doing things that way essentially takes the human element out of making music. You're not really creating something compelling, in the moment, when you're punching in note by note.



Nowadays, almost every band produced by Joey Sturgis or Cameron Mizell (95% of Rise Records, Fearless Records and such) is produced this way. This is the modern way of doing "professional" records on big labels, the ones which actually make money. And yes, I find this extremely appealing to listen to. Records produced by them sonically outperform everything else in the "metal" game. An example of a "modern" record done this way is "Divided By" by Structures:

Here is the instrumental version without the clip-fest occuring on the final version of the album. Produced by Will Putney, not Sturgis or Mizell, though.
If I didn't tell you this is recorded note-by-note, you probably would never notice. They obviously can play what they recorded. Same with Within the Ruins and Rings of Saturn.


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## fps (Aug 29, 2014)

DarkWolfXV said:


> Nowadays, almost every band produced by Joey Sturgis or Cameron Mizell (95% of Rise Records, Fearless Records and such) is produced this way. This is the modern way of doing "professional" records on big labels, the ones which actually make money. And yes, I find this extremely appealing to listen to. Records produced by them sonically outperform everything else in the "metal" game. An example of a "modern" record done this way is "Divided By" by Structures:
> 
> Here is the instrumental version without the clip-fest occuring on the final version of the album. Produced by Will Putney, not Sturgis or Mizell, though.
> If I didn't tell you this is recorded note-by-note, you probably would never notice. They obviously can play what they recorded. Same with Within the Ruins and Rings of Saturn.




Silly to say "outperform". Not only is it a matter of taste how records are recorded and sound, but these records sell modest amounts, and I don't see industry people raving about the production quality, so outperform really is the wrong term.


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## wat (Aug 29, 2014)

^That was bad music for bad people


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## WhiteWalls (Aug 29, 2014)

Unfortunately that was a bad example because structures cannot play their music live. I saw them twice and they were not even close to acceptable, especially considering that they're mostly known for their technical style.

It may be a bit harsh to say but many of those bands have to be recorded that way because they are not good enough to create a professional sounding record otherwise. And that's FINE, but I don't think that makes them immune to criticism just because "things are done this way in 2014".
There are some welcomed exceptions that do it purely for artistic reasons (Within the Ruins), but those are very rare.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 29, 2014)

fps said:


> but these records sell modest amounts, and I don't see industry people raving about the production quality, so outperform really is the wrong term.


But I see every single Rise Records or Fearless Records band going to Sturgis...and he's raking in the cash...

And now apparently every Sumerian band is going to Will Putney...and he's raking in the cash...


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## DarkWolfXV (Aug 29, 2014)

By "This is the modern way of doing "professional" records on big labels, the ones which actually make money", I meant that "professional records on big labels that make money are made this way". You can't deny that Emmure, Attila, Asking Alexandria or Crown the Empire (Victory, Artery, Sumerian and Rise, respectively) make quite a bit. I did not mean that Within the Ruins, Rings of Saturn or Structures are one of those bands making "quite a bit", I meant that these are the bands using the same production style as those "big label, making quite a bit of money" bands. I do agree that WtR, RoS or Structures only have a "modest" income. I should make my point more clear next time.


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## fps (Aug 31, 2014)

DarkWolfXV said:


> By "This is the modern way of doing "professional" records on big labels, the ones which actually make money", I meant that "professional records on big labels that make money are made this way". You can't deny that Emmure, Attila, Asking Alexandria or Crown the Empire (Victory, Artery, Sumerian and Rise, respectively) make quite a bit. I did not mean that Within the Ruins, Rings of Saturn or Structures are one of those bands making "quite a bit", I meant that these are the bands using the same production style as those "big label, making quite a bit of money" bands. I do agree that WtR, RoS or Structures only have a "modest" income. I should make my point more clear next time.



I think it's a significant indication of how much smaller the metal industry is these days that bands use these kinds of micro-recording approaches, because it shows the home-made, lower quality computerised sound is where bands are interested in laying their hat sound-wise, and that sound and approach is embedded in the current musical trends in part due to the budgetary limitations of the artists who are at the creative "forefront" online.


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## Nats (Aug 31, 2014)

When Rings of Saturn does a pushup, they aren't lifting themselves up, they're pushing the Earth down.

Rings of Saturn do not sleep. They wait.

There is no chin behind Rings of Saturns&#8217; beard. There is only another fist.


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## SD83 (Aug 31, 2014)

fps said:


> I think it's a significant indication of how much smaller the metal industry is these days that bands use these kinds of micro-recording approaches, because it shows the home-made, lower quality computerised sound is where bands are interested in laying their hat sound-wise, and that sound and approach is embedded in the current musical trends in part due to the budgetary limitations of the artists who are at the creative "forefront" online.



Are you saying that this is the equivalent to the early black metal sounding like crap due to crappy equipment and the entire genre copying that sound as it was the only trve black metal sound?


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## fps (Aug 31, 2014)

SD83 said:


> Are you saying that this is the equivalent to the early black metal sounding like crap due to crappy equipment and the entire genre copying that sound as it was the only trve black metal sound?



Is that from the Burzum discussion in the other thread? Yes I guess I am. Although I wouldn't say it sounds like crap, it's certainly not a pleasing sound to me. Possibly a little off topic, I think Meshuggah, the grandaddy of most of what this "forefront" is offering, in terms of machine-like sound, actually have some very alive sounding albums, DEI, Nothing and Koloss all being significantly more crushing and organic than a lot of the bands that have evolved out of Periphery/ AAL love.

But we are talking about metal production, and some of the best records of all time are not only not hindered, but enhanced by less than ideal production. My main point is economic restrictions brought about by a decrease in interest in rock and metal mean no-one is really raking it in, and the ultra-digital recording style only works for a very small percentage of the bands who are using it (eg RoS) and to the detriment of a lot of other bands, who would quite possibly do something different, and sound a lot better, if they had a budget that allowed them to consider a different option.


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## Kwert (Aug 31, 2014)

SD83 said:


> Are you saying that this is the equivalent to the early black metal sounding like crap due to crappy equipment and the entire genre copying that sound as it was the only trve black metal sound?



The issue I take here (and again, this is just my own personal opinion), is that those early black metal albums, even with the lo-fi production, still sounded organic and atmospheric. There is a humanity in the music and a sense of intent in the sound that is lacking in these modern, so-called "progressive" bands.

To me, bands that record like RoS, and the sound of the records they put out sound sterile and lifeless to these ears. I'm aware it's an aesthetic feature of the genre but just like you find black metal unlistenable, I find this stuff unlistenable.


I agree with fps about a lot of Meshuggah albums sounding very "alive", which is why I find it easy to give them a pass in this genre. There's a ballsiness there that isn't captured by a lot of newer bands playing that kind of music.


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## RevDrucifer (Sep 1, 2014)

For those who say it's "obvious" that these guy can pull this off live, does anyone have any actual proof of that? IE- A soundboard recording without a backing track? Or even something where the backing track is a lot lower in the mix than the live audio?

After hearing all the edits in the examples in this thread (like that Structure's tune...and BTW, that's a fairly misleading band name for that style....) and seeing that dude's solo record/crowd funding video, I can't say it's obvious at all that any of these guys pull this stuff off live.

Not saying it's not possible, but it's just a lot of wasted time editing shit if you can physically pull it off to begin with.....and if you're listening to band live with a shit ton of backing tracks, you've really got clue what they're really playing live and what they aren't.


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## mikah912 (Sep 10, 2014)

So they released a 5-minute teaser medley of the whole record:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar41UYuuRpc

Honestly.....I gotta say...I really like it. I heard them live last year and they didn't do much for me (what I could make out anyway...horrible indistinct guitar tones and house mix live).

But the preponderance of videogame-sounding tapping and openly artificial soundscapes is kinda refreshing to me. Of course, it's completely enhanced. 

But I think that's just to a greater degree of what most bands are already doing. So many songs these days have unearthly gating, guitars compressed and low-passed to hell, and filter sweep intros. So what is "natural" metal anymore?

These guys are just taking it to its logical extreme, and I enjoy it. At least what I'm hearing in this teaser.


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## tacotiklah (Sep 11, 2014)

Curiosity got the better of me, and deep down I had hoped that maybe, just maybe they'd released something that would actually impress me.

Nope.


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## gfactor (Sep 11, 2014)

Man are people really punching in for literally every note? I thought that was hyperbole but I guess not. If that's the case why not just sample the guitar and program it like a lot of people do with drums? That's essentially what's going on, the reason this rubs people the wrong way is that they are doing just enough to be able to say they "played the guitar" but it comes off as dishonest.

I'm not saying there's something intrinsically wrong with making music this way, but I am saying it's not playing guitar. Why bother learning to play if you only have to play one note at a time to make "technical" music?


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## Nats (Sep 11, 2014)

When most bands post a teaser it's pretty obvious even without the slight fade-in/fade-out what the individual songs are.


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## Maniacal (Sep 11, 2014)

What a load of nonsense. Might as well download any random guitar pro file and increase the speed to 300bpm.


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## Randy (Sep 11, 2014)

Somebody leaked the opening track

[SC]http://soundcloud.com/ahmadzaki/guitar-pro-5-opening[/SC]


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## spawnofthesith (Sep 11, 2014)

This thread is still going?


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## Lorcan Ward (Sep 11, 2014)

gfactor said:


> Man are people really punching in for literally every note? I thought that was hyperbole but I guess not. If that's the case why not just sample the guitar and program it like a lot of people do with drums? That's essentially what's going on, the reason this rubs people the wrong way is that they are doing just enough to be able to say they "played the guitar" but it comes off as dishonest.
> 
> I'm not saying there's something intrinsically wrong with making music this way, but I am saying it's not playing guitar. Why bother learning to play if you only have to play one note at a time to make "technical" music?



Its mostly copy and pasting notes rather than tracking one note a time, you can hear the consistent down picking on tremolo sections. Its like how you would cut a kick sample down to a quaver and paste it 8 times into a bar.

Most of us don't mind as long as you can play your songs live and you don't try claim your guitar pro tight tracks are real playing. Personally as a listener I like how tight & clear some of these new tech/core bands sound on CD even if the guitars are essentially fake. 

PeteyG(Red Seas Fire) has a hilarious video that sums modern editing up:
Instagram


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## crg123 (Sep 11, 2014)

Randy said:


> Somebody leaked the opening track
> 
> [SC]http://soundcloud.com/ahmadzaki/guitar-pro-5-opening[/SC]



He went with that version for vintage tone haha. RSE hipster


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## SmackyChot (Sep 11, 2014)

2:32 in the teaser video... They totally put that in to piss off people. That is like RSE to the teeth right???



I like their songs, and I'll like this probably. Everyone likes different things. I am not into Lucas's attitude however (i.e I <3 h8ters hat) and that spoils my like for the band a bit.

But if they would just do legit playthrough videos, (which BARELY take much effort to make themselves, unless you try to go kubrick with it) people would shut up and we can all go on either enjoying the music or moving onto other shit.

You'd think they be so eager to shut people up about it right? I mean Lucas has some chops and a big ego it seems. Show off buddy.


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## NaYoN (Sep 11, 2014)

SmackyChot said:


> 2:32 in the teaser video... They totally put that in to piss off people. That is like RSE to the teeth right???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Like this one? It clearly has actual audio from his playing, including mistakes




Lorcan Ward said:


> PeteyG(Red Seas Fire) has a hilarious video that sums modern editing up:
> Instagram



Which is amusing because he does it too.


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## Tysonimmortal (Sep 15, 2014)

I would love it if everybody still had to record straight to tape. This band (and a lot of bands like them) wouldn't exist.


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## MikeH (Sep 15, 2014)

Are we also ignoring the fact that Etherial makes some really ugly guitars? Noyan, I think you have one of the only good-looking efforts of theirs.


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## Mprinsje (Sep 15, 2014)

MikeH said:


> Are we also ignoring the fact that Etherial makes some really ugly guitars? Noyan, I think you have one of the only good-looking efforts of theirs.



Never heard of them before, looked them up.

Damn son, you ain't lyin'.


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## asher (Sep 15, 2014)

Mprinsje said:


> Never heard of them before, looked them up.
> 
> Damn son, you ain't lyin'.



Man have you missed a shitshow of a luthiery subforum thread


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## spawnofthesith (Sep 15, 2014)

Yeah those guitars are awful looking  tossed in the dnw bucket along with halo, legator, s7, etc. Etc. Etc. Lol


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## Mprinsje (Sep 15, 2014)

asher said:


> Man have you missed a shitshow of a luthiery subforum thread



aww man  shame i don't go on there more.


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## Necris (Sep 15, 2014)

The vast majority of Etherial guitars have all of the aesthetic appeal of an Affliction shirt covered vomit and mustard stains wrapped around a glowstick.


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## ForThisGift (Sep 15, 2014)

Necris said:


> The vast majority of Etherial guitars have all of the aesthetic appeal of an Affliction shirt covered vomit and mustard stains wrapped around a glowstick.



I think you are giving Etherial too much credit... I would wear the fvck out of that shirt versus paying for one of those guitars 10/10.


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## Ed_Ibanez_Shred (Sep 24, 2014)

Errrr new song.


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## Demiurge (Sep 25, 2014)

Oh, a lyric video for a song with bad lyrics. Obviously, the lyricist does not flip through the thesaurus at half-speed.


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## Nats (Sep 25, 2014)

The default pic for the lyric video is "FVCK" in big letters. I'm ready to have my thoughts provoked.


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## ForThisGift (Sep 25, 2014)

I am not even convinced this is a different song, but I couldn't make it all the way through to confirm. I will say this, at least we don't have to look at their mugs while they are faking their fake performances this time around.


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## Ed_Ibanez_Shred (Oct 7, 2014)

Haters gonna hate, alligators gonna alligate etc


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## Ed_Ibanez_Shred (Oct 7, 2014)

ForThisGift said:


> I am not even convinced this is a different song, but I couldn't make it all the way through to confirm. I will say this, at least we don't have to look at their mugs while they are faking their fake performances this time around.



Your tears are delicious btw


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## Nmaster (Oct 7, 2014)

I really enjoyed this new album. The only song to really not stick out to me was "Eviscerate." It felt like a bland song when compared to other songs on the CD like Godless Times. Loved Rusty Cooley's part on Infused.


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## -One- (Oct 7, 2014)

I'm really loving this album. It combines all of the good things about _Embryonic Anomaly_ and _Dingir_, and leaves you with a pretty solid grasp of the Rings of Saturn sound, without sounding stale. Aaron Kitcher's drumming on the album was absolutely insane, but I figured it would be. Ian's vocal work throughout the album stood out as well, his lows and guttural vocals especially. The use of synth on this album was very good as well, in my opinion. It wasn't overused, and didn't sound cliche. The guitar work was impressive, even for Rings of Saturn, although there's often so many guitar tracks, I wonder how they'll play the new material live. I really enjoyed the instrumental at the end of the album. It was probably my favorite track overall, and has my favorite guitar parts on the album. The breakdown in Unsympathetic Intellect was another part of the album I really enjoyed.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 7, 2014)

Gotta get a kick out of "the drumming on this record is phenomenal"?
You mean the quantizing on this album is phenomenal.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Oct 7, 2014)

-One- said:


> Aaron Kitcher's drumming on the album was absolutely insane
> 
> The guitar work was impressive



lolololololololol


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## GiveUpGuitar (Oct 8, 2014)

Not really too into this band, but hearing this, especially with Mitch Lucker at the end talking about them, totally earned my respect. I'm sure we can all find ways that make them seem like assholes for this lol but in all reality its cool for them to pay homage.


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## mikah912 (Oct 8, 2014)

It's front-loaded with the coolest moments and melodies from the 5-minute preview, but overall....I liked the record. 

Are these "real" or "realistic" performances? I dunno. Not sure I care. Metal has begun to almost intrude into "electronica" territory with that emphasis on pre- and -post production. I was watching that video of Navene-K performing his new LP live in Gotherburg, and I saw these borders melting away. 

The guy seamlessly switched between shredding live on drums and guitar to making loops and occasionally miming pre-recorded guitar and drum parts for the sake of live performance. He's a talented dude, but his music is most certainly not 100 percent "live" or "un-enhanced" either live or on-record. And that's by design.

I think the same of Rings of Saturn. There's a deliberate attempt to have otherworldly, videogame-esque sounds predominant in their music, so it makes sense that they would be so heavily "fake" or "quantized". It's a deliberate stylistic choice. So I don't begrudge them.


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## DarkWolfXV (Oct 8, 2014)

GunpointMetal said:


> Gotta get a kick out of "the drumming on this record is phenomenal"?
> You mean the quantizing on this album is phenomenal.



wow ur so funny and witty m8


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## DarkWolfXV (Oct 8, 2014)

On topic, did not listen to the full record yet, but I'm loving the Suicide Silence cover. They didn't change it a lot, just added a bit of their own flavor, and that's what I like. Props for the Mitch Lucker sample.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 8, 2014)

I'd probably have some appreciation for it if they just came out and said that everything was hyper-editing and there isn't a single completely performed measure on the record (aside from vocals, I like their vocalist), and then NOT act like they're playing it how it is on the record when they do a video. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if I like it or not. Obviously more people would rather listen to this then my shitty, organic-sounding band.


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## DarkWolfXV (Oct 8, 2014)

To me, both "synthetic" and "organic" sounds are cool (and I'm sure that quite a lot of people that like RoS also listen to other, *gasp* "organic" sounding bands), it just depends on the context and how it's carried out, so your "shitty, organic-sounding band" might not really be shitty (I have never heard your music, so I can't really cast a judgement, would be cool if there was a link to it somewhere in your profile). RoS are going for a totally alien, inhuman sound, and people shouldn't be butthurt over artistic choices. Also, drums were recorded by Aaron Kitcher from Infant Annihilator, he is a talented dude, he can play his shit, so I'm quite sure there's more than a single completely performed measure on the record. Guitars might be just like you said, though. I elaborated on that previously in this thread. I don't think that drums are all quantized on this record, they don't sound like that, so I think that you are wrong.


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## Dayn (Oct 8, 2014)

I really like their hyper-edited aesthetic, it's very electronic. That appeals to me.

Though not a fan of the vocals and after hearing one song I don't really want to hear any more. I just finished listening and I can't even remember one single riff besides the relentless bass drum.


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