# Black or White: Something To Think About



## Nimgoble (Dec 7, 2011)

Has anyone see this? I thought it was interesting...in a sad sort of way...




Thoughts?


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## Randy (Dec 7, 2011)

You had literally hundreds of years of slavery, followed by another hundred plus years of institutionalized segregation and to this day, still a passive racial separation and it's surprising to people that there's a lingering racial bias? This stuff doesn't just go away that quickly.


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## groph (Dec 9, 2011)

Yeah I've seen this, it's pretty heartbreaking. As a good white liberal I must sit here and feel guilty for a few minutes and then go back to whatever it was that I was doing.

Hari Kondabolu: Racism vs. White Guilt | Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture

But really though, hearing young children calling it like they see it is pretty fucking real.


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## renzoip (Dec 9, 2011)

Sad but true. Hopefully this will will be a reality check for the millions of Americans (of all races/ethnicities) who believed John McCain when he announced the end of racism in the United States in 2008. They need to wake up and stop being in denial about their own country's racial issues. 


Also, more people should read this:


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## AxeHappy (Dec 9, 2011)

I thought some studies had been done that proved pretty much everybody was a racist cunt?

Too lazy to go look for them now though.


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## The Reverend (Dec 9, 2011)

What We Can Learn From Unconscious Racial Bias - The Daily Beast 

I had to read this and respond critically as part of my English final. It was weird, to say the least. 

I'm not sure why people are surprised. I read somewhere recently about Hollywood producers choosing white protagonists over all black actors who aren't Will Smith because they do better, not out of racial bias. Think of a successful CEO, or the business cronies OWS is protesting against; odds are you're thinking of a white dude. Think of successful actors, or even tabloid fodder, and you'll think of white people, with Oprah thrown in occasionally for good benefit. This latent sort of prejudice even applies to black people like me, because we're all subjected to the same stimuli, the same images, news stories, and COPS episodes with naked black dudes on PCP. I'm not sure if any of this is due purely to racism in the higher echelons of pop culture, or the fact that there simply are more high-profile white people, but it's sending an unconscious message to everyone who sees it.


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## Hollowway (Dec 9, 2011)

Well this is depressing. Especially where they ask the little girl which the good doll is, and she picks white, then which doll looks like her, and she picks the black one. Racism (and homophobia, and other discrimination) is just way too prevalent. And I know it's not just the US - other countries can be just terrible.

But let me ask the UK guys on here: what is racism like over there? When I was over there there seemed to be way less racism. And my UK friends who are black and now live in the US (only 2) say racism against blacks is way worse in the US.


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## Jakke (Dec 11, 2011)

All I can say that is very sad when you can't identify your own skin colour/ethnicity with something positive...
The same thing if you are a swede who is concerned with PC... Then you can't like your own skin colour, culture, country, or heritage. A political leader (the social democratic party, SAP) seriously said when speaking to immigrated kids that, and I quote, "you have the culture and the tradition, we only have midsummer and other dorky things".
Luckily ske got wooped in the election


Not to be the pissy european that is an ass to americans, and not to piss on the south either, but isn't it pretty graphic that Mississippi didn't ratify the 13th amendment until 1995?


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## highlordmugfug (Dec 11, 2011)

That was heartbreaking.


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## wlfers (Dec 15, 2011)

^ when the girl put forward the doll that looked like her =/


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## flint757 (Dec 15, 2011)

Indeed, this is very sad. My niece who's half black does the same thing. She always wants to play with the white doll. I don't know if it is because she spends more time with my side of the family (so it's familiar) or if indeed there is some sort of subconscious deeper meaning behind it (probably both). I look forward to the day this is no longer an issue and people aren't using such arbitrary things to discriminate against each other to make kids feel this way.

Someone else posted videos on here about how being told your less of a person makes you perform worse since it essentially destroys your confidence (the blue eyed vs brown eyed test). It's all just tragic.


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## The Reverend (Dec 15, 2011)

flint757 said:


> Indeed, this is very sad. My niece who's half black does the same thing. She always wants to play with the white doll. I don't know if it is because she spends more time with my side of the family (so it's familiar) or if indeed there is some sort of subconscious deeper meaning behind it (probably both). I look forward to the day this is no longer an issue and people aren't using such arbitrary things to discriminate against each other to make kids feel this way.
> 
> Someone else posted videos on here about how being told your less of a person makes you perform worse since it essentially destroys your confidence (the blue eyed vs brown eyed test). It's all just tragic.



I'm half-white, half-black, and once I got older, just telling people what I am became a challenge. If you say half-black, it implies that you're truly a white person, and vice versa. I've even noticed that when the question of my race comes up, people will claim me as whatever race they are (if they're white or black, that is) if I don't answer or am not nearby. 

Even worse, I don't really identify with either race. I wasn't raised in what could be called a traditional black family, so I can't identify on quite a few levels with normal black people. I'm not white, so things like sunburns and fancy haircuts every two weeks are mysteries to me. If anything, I'd identify more with being stereotypically white, but I don't appear as such and am treated differently occasionally because of that.

It'd be nice if race was just something never thought about. People talk about racial pride and all that, but America is a good example of how races can intermingle, to the point where people can effectively be raceless. What pride is there in that? And more to the point, what inferiority can be derived from that? I'm not sure race is something that should be ignored, but I'm not sure I'd go around saying black power or white power, although in theory, can't I say both?


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## flint757 (Dec 15, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> I'm half-white, half-black, and once I got older, just telling people what I am became a challenge. If you say half-black, it implies that you're truly a white person, and vice versa. I've even noticed that when the question of my race comes up, people will claim me as whatever race they are (if they're white or black, that is) if I don't answer or am not nearby.
> 
> Even worse, I don't really identify with either race. I wasn't raised in what could be called a traditional black family, so I can't identify on quite a few levels with normal black people. I'm not white, so things like sunburns and fancy haircuts every two weeks are mysteries to me. If anything, I'd identify more with being stereotypically white, but I don't appear as such and am treated differently occasionally because of that.
> 
> It'd be nice if race was just something never thought about. People talk about racial pride and all that, but America is a good example of how races can intermingle, to the point where people can effectively be raceless. What pride is there in that? And more to the point, what inferiority can be derived from that? I'm not sure race is something that should be ignored, but I'm not sure I'd go around saying black power or white power, although in theory, can't I say both?



I could take that a step further with Tiger Woods even as an example. He's half Chinese and half black, but everyone says first black not first Chinese #1 golfer. If you want to get technical nobody is black we are all just different shades of brown/tan making the notion that more ridiculous. 

I don't honestly know why people care. You can tell more about a person by how they are dressed, how they talk and who they hang out with than by color IMO. Even still those things don't always say much about someones character and hobbies.

In school people didn't know I was a metal head, but I was quiet kid who wore normal clothes so why would they I guess. However, how someone speaks (assuming you and the other person are speaking each others native tongue) does, to some degree, show you how literate someone is. Beyond that though you can't tell much about someone without getting to know them first, again making any other stereotypical notions not necessarily true.


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## The Reverend (Dec 15, 2011)

This subject is perhaps understandably important to me, but how stereotypes work in terms of how quick we are to judge people is fascinating in a sad way. We use them like contextual cues to glean what we think is information about people, instead of directly inquiring into something. In some cases it makes sense, like assuming the guy at your door with a Pizza Hut uniform and a box of pizza is a delivery guy, but in most cases, the truth isn't quite so clear.

As far as race issues, it's really like variations in the paint scheme of a production guitar; there's no real difference between them. It gets complicated when you try to apply that type of thinking to people, though, because people tend to confuse racial identity with culture, using race as a way to separate themselves. In a perfect world, Tiger Woods would be called something like "America's New Golf Sensation!" instead of the butt of countless jokes about being blackinese.

It's partly the media's fault, as well, but in a limited capacity. It's not a conspiracy of anti-minority producers or whatever, but the by-product of capitalism in marketing. People want to buy things advertised with smiling white people, and through focus groups and studies, the people in charge of bombarding us with these images appeal to that. It would take a real shift in the perception of the common American to change that, and help stop this self-perpetuating cycle of almost subliminal prejudice.


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## MikeH (Dec 16, 2011)

Racism still kills me to this day. It seems so primitive and dumb to me, honestly. Anyone who is racist gets far less respect from me than those who are not. If your proudest achievement is your race, that says a whole lot about what you've done with your life.


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## renzoip (Dec 16, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> As far as race issues, it's really like variations in the paint scheme of a production guitar; there's no real difference between them. It gets complicated when you try to apply that type of thinking to people, though, because people tend to confuse racial identity with culture, using race as a way to separate themselves. In a perfect world, Tiger Woods would be called something like "America's New Golf Sensation!" instead of the butt of countless jokes about being blackinese.
> 
> It's partly the media's fault, as well, but in a limited capacity. It's not a conspiracy of anti-minority producers or whatever, but the by-product of capitalism in marketing. People want to buy things advertised with smiling white people, and through focus groups and studies, the people in charge of bombarding us with these images appeal to that. It would take a real shift in the perception of the common American to change that, and help stop this self-perpetuating cycle of almost subliminal prejudice.



This is true, and interesting. In my case, I'm hispanic/latino, and while I've always been aware of this, I've never really knew what being hispanic was until I moved to the US and people started classifying me as such. Back in my country I was just "white", because I look a more of European decent than of Native American decent. And even though latinos, by definition, are 90% mixed race, we are seen as one race here in the US. 

What you say about the media is also true. I've seen in here and I've seen it in my country of origin. They even did the experiment with the dolls and found the same result, except it was between native americans and whites. Very sad to say the least, and it's not just a matter of color, but of the socio-political conditions that are associated with stereotypes. 

However, I think that this isn't a problem that the "majority" is gonna be able to solve for "minorities". I think that nowadays, the problem is not so much what is being said about minorities, but more so that many of us minorities believe it. For example, this girl at work told me that she liked me cause "I looked like a very nice clean mexican." Now, I am not from mexico, and even if I was, I would not take that as a compliment. I can choose whether I want to believe that I really am outstanding among a group of generally inferior people, or whether that's complete BS, disregard it, and move on. Whatever choice I make will certainly have an effect not only in how I think about myself but also in how I teach my children to think about themselves. People in minority groups really need to help others in their groups grow out of their complexes, by focusing on the positive aspects that make them unique and special. Don't expect the media to do it, don't expect the "majority" to do it, do it yourself.


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## The Reverend (Dec 16, 2011)

renzoip said:


> For example, this girl at work told me that she liked me cause "I looked like a very nice clean mexican." Now, I am not from mexico, and even if I was, I would not take that as a compliment. But I can choose whether I want to believe that I really am outstanding among a group of generally inferior people
> , or I can choose to believe that's complete BS, disregard it, and move on. Whatever choice I make will certainly have an effect not only in how I think about myself but also in how I teach my children to think about themselves.



This, so much this. When I've tried to talk about racial issues with my white friends, they generally say things about how I don't act like a normal black person, which implies that I act white, and thus better than other black people. I've even had black people call me out for trying to talk white, when I just speak without any sort of accent, which implies that I'm acting 'above my station' or something.

While it's up to minorities to ultimately change the opinions people have of them in certain cases (the amount of black people in prison comes to mind), it's just as much up to the rest of America to think a bit more critically about what they say, and the meaning it carries.


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## flint757 (Dec 16, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> This, so much this. When I've tried to talk about racial issues with my white friends, they generally say things about how I don't act like a normal black person, which implies that I act white, and thus better than other black people. I've even had black people call me out for trying to talk white, when I just speak without any sort of accent, which implies that I'm acting 'above my station' or something.
> 
> While it's up to minorities to ultimately change the opinions people have of them in certain cases (the amount of black people in prison comes to mind), it's just as much up to the rest of America to think a bit more critically about what they say, and the meaning it carries.



We need to stop classifying it is the big thing. For instance, we should have scholarships for the impoverished not for blacks, latino's, or whatever. the more we classify the more we divide.


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## The Reverend (Dec 16, 2011)

That would be a great step towards dividing racial identities from cultural ones.


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## Stealthtastic (Dec 17, 2011)

I hate racism, it comes equally from both sides.
For example, yesterday I got called a devilworshipping cracker. (By a black girl, naturally. The devil worshipping part came from my mudvayne t-shirt, I don't ask me how.)
Bias is NEVER going to go away.


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## BucketheadRules (Dec 17, 2011)

Hollowway said:


> But let me ask the UK guys on here: what is racism like over there? When I was over there there seemed to be way less racism. And my UK friends who are black and now live in the US (only 2) say racism against blacks is way worse in the US.



There's still a fair bit of it over here. It's nowhere near as bad as America but it exists.

Racism is really bad over the internet as well, I've noticed... probably because there's a huge number of people on the internet who are faceless keyboard warrior cowards, who thrive on anonymity. 

I was watching an Oceano clip on YT the other day and almost every comment was about the singer being black. I mean, for fuck's sake, get a grip. Here is a sample comment:

_"I'm&#65279; not even gonna lie I stoped watching this about 30 seconds in because the singer is black Hahahaha dem damn niggers"_

Here is my response to that:

_"Are you serious? That's an appalling view to hold.
I hate the way every comment has something about the vocalist being black. Why the fuck does it matter? He's black, so what. Deal with it. Doesn't make him any worse than any white deathcore vocalist (and tbh I think this dude is way better than most other deathcore vocalists)... seriously, if him being a black guy in a metal band bothers you, you&#65279; need to have a word with yourself."_

Racism really bothers me.


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## SirMyghin (Dec 17, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> It'd be nice if race was just something never thought about. People talk about racial pride and all that, but America is a good example of how races can intermingle, to the point where people can effectively be raceless. What pride is there in that? And more to the point, what inferiority can be derived from that? I'm not sure race is something that should be ignored, but I'm not sure I'd go around saying black power or white power, although in theory, can't I say both?



You touch on an interesting point here, I tend to treat people as raceless, but I don't see that as a drawback. I name and a sex is good enough for me, I tend to look beyond the rest, which may or may not be confusing for others if I am trying to describe someone, due to expected social queues  . One the other hands you have your nasty stereotypes, and generally equally nasty people who fall into them. Those trend followers, if you will, are much harder to mentally separate than the outliers. I just have a lot more experience with outliers in general, having spent my life in rural canada (99.9% white) and an engineering setting (a group of like minded dorks from all corners of the globe). 

I think viewing as raceless is a step in the right direction. We need to stop looking at Kyle the white man (me, I'm evil I swear), or The Rev the half black guy, and just dispense with these middle bits. As long as they are looming, your mind may play subtle tricks. Feminists would argue one step further and dispense with the last bit too, but the sexes divide much more heavily based on response to situations in my experience.

It is quite a problem that we have self esteem issues stemming from this though, that needs to be hammered out.


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## flint757 (Dec 17, 2011)

BucketheadRules said:


> There's still a fair bit of it over here. It's nowhere near as bad as America but it exists.
> 
> Racism is really bad over the internet as well, I've noticed... probably because there's a huge number of people on the internet who are faceless keyboard warrior cowards, who thrive on anonymity.
> 
> ...



^^ This

but also I have to say if people just straight up ignored them I think it would slowly go away like a bad joke. Some people get a rise out of peoples reaction including racism. Nowadays most racism is found in comedy which again wouldn't be the case if people weren't listening.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Dec 17, 2011)

Racism is something that never clicked in my brain. I've had friends of all colors all my life. I guess its because I dont have the intelligence of a doorknob.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 17, 2011)

Randy said:


> You had literally hundreds of years of slavery, followed by another hundred plus years of institutionalized segregation and to this day, still a passive racial separation and it's surprising to people that there's a lingering racial bias? This stuff doesn't just go away that quickly.



/thread

I had prepared a rant, but I decided to spare you all another Jesse Jacksonism.


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## flint757 (Dec 17, 2011)

I don't disagree with the sentiment here but a lot of the people involved with that era are dead I did nothing. Holding on to the past is a good way to never make it to the future. The truth is things won't change until people start moving on on all sides. Whether anyone has the right to be pissed is irrelevant.


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## tacotiklah (Dec 18, 2011)

I stopped seeing things in terms of black and white. Yes there are black people and yes there are white people and yes each has it own "culture". However neither is better than the other. Rather that they have different approaches to living. I truly am sorry for the things that have happened to black people, but also mind that these things happened before I was born and therefore I shouldn't be held accountable for them. I try to use the negatives of the past as a moral compass and to remind myself of what can happen if you allow bigotry to go unchecked.

I also would like to make the point that racism goes both ways. I've been called honky, redneck, whiteboy, and god knows what else by black people when I've done nothing more than talk to them politely. Granted that they may have figured that ALL white people are evil bigots to be hated, but they became the very thing they hated.
Doesn't excuse the things that have been done by white people, but rather points out the the fault lies with actions of each individual and their own attitudes and not by a whole race.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 18, 2011)

You don't address that said hatred was inadvertantly bred into the culture. Didn't Randy already talk ab how we were introduced to this nation? At the same time you yourself experience or may have experienced some discrimination as a result of your "lifestyle." 

Whether or not you actually harbor resentment I'll never really know but I'd understand if you did.

Also, name calling is probably the most benign symptom of racism possible particularly considering the racial slurs towards whites imply no premature judgement of one's mental capacity. Not that that makes it any more right, but white Americans whining ab a black guy calling them honkey just comes off as juvenile considering the history of racial tension in this country and abroad.


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## renzoip (Dec 18, 2011)

I see what you are saying. I also disapprove and condemn racial slurs and racial prejudice when used against white people, AKA "reverse racism". However, I disagree when people say that reverse racism = racism, that it's all the same. In my view, reverse racism implies more of a resentment than an actual superiority complex. 

I'm just saying thing because in my country of origin I've been a victim of reverse prejudice myself, although in a social class context. But it was a similar principle: Some poor kids assuming I was a rich daddy's boy asshole. Now, I was aware that many upper-middle class kids were like that, but they weren't trying to imply that there was something inherent about me that made me an inferior kind of person.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 19, 2011)

flint757 said:


> I don't disagree with the sentiment here but a lot of the people involved with that era are dead I did nothing. Holding on to the past is a good way to never make it to the future. The truth is things won't change until people start moving on on all sides. Whether anyone has the right to be pissed is irrelevant.



This to me is not a valid solution. Those who don't learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them. I think such moments in human history like slavery, the Holocaust, etc should be mentioned and explained so people understand why such things are wrong. If we just attempt to just get over it, people never learn.

When it comes to race, I don't believe we're "all the same". That being said I don't think one race if better than another, however we're from different walks of life. We have our own customs, languages, traditions and histories. Those things should be talked about so that we all learn from one another and learn something about ourselves. Being "colorblind" and throwing the "we're all human" blanket over everyone IMO does a disservice to social advancement.


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## Jakke (Dec 19, 2011)

^Yeah, we are actually more different that "all the same-ists" wants to admit. We do have genetic differences that goes beyond appearance. In short, we have developed to different parts of the world, and has become more different as a result. 

It is important though that we all see that there is no "inferior" genetic makeup, we are just accustomed to our own parts of the world, there is no "übermensch" (german for superhuman).

Sadly there is not very much known about the difference between humans, after WWII it has not been PC to research these subjects, and if you have, the step for people to call you a supremacist or a nazi has not been very long. Instead everyone has been spoon-fed that we are all the same if you look behind appearance... That is wrong on both a scientific and logical level, and science is starting to see that. 

As a result we could probably see specialized medical treatments and/or dosages based on ethniticity, that could help save a lot of lives.


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## Aevolve (Dec 19, 2011)

Living in the US I can attest to racism running the full gambit. I've seen racism against blacks, but quite honestly (at least in my area) I see WAY more black hostility towards whites, with whites constantly worrying about stepping on black people's toes. The whole situation depresses me really- Dr. King was for equality, not beneficiary stances on either side. He must be rolling in his grave.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 19, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> This to me is not a valid solution. Those who don't learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them. I think such moments in human history like slavery, the Holocaust, etc should be mentioned and explained so people understand why such things are wrong. If we just attempt to just get over it, people never learn.
> 
> When it comes to race, I don't believe we're "all the same". That being said I don't think one race if better than another, however we're from different walks of life. We have our own customs, languages, traditions and histories. Those things should be talked about so that we all learn from one another and learn something about ourselves. Being "colorblind" and throwing the "we're all human" blanket over everyone IMO does a disservice to social advancement.


 
This. And honestly, I think that some of the "we're all the same" stuff is a big cop out and an excuse to not get to know another culture, thus perpetuating the racial insensitivity that helps to fuel the "reverse racism" phenomenon.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 19, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> This. And honestly, I think that some of the "we're all the same" stuff is a big cop out and an excuse to not get to know another culture, thus perpetuating the racial insensitivity that helps to fuel the "reverse racism" phenomenon.



Do you know how many white guys I meet at shows and stuff who ask "stupid" or "technically offensive" questions about me because they honestly haven't had the opportunity to talk to a black person? I put those words into quotation marks because some people would see those questions as offensive or stupid, but honestly..how are people supposed to understand other races unless we have dialogue about it? I don't mind answering questions because there are a lot of people (YOUNGER people surprisingly) who honestly don't have anything to go by other than what some non-black person tells them about black people. Instead of "we're all the same and no one's different" or being offended anytime someone asks an honest question, I just answer..and they're always appreciative.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 19, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Do you know how many white guys I meet at shows and stuff who ask "stupid" or "technically offensive" questions about me because they honestly haven't had the opportunity to talk to a black person? I put those words into quotation marks because some people would see those questions as offensive or stupid, but honestly..how are people supposed to understand other races unless we have dialogue about it? I don't mind answering questions because there are a lot of people (YOUNGER people surprisingly) who honestly don't have anything to go by other than what some non-black person tells them about black people. Instead of "we're all the same and no one's different" or being offended anytime someone asks an honest question, I just answer..and they're always appreciative.


 
See I agree with you so long as they ask their questions respectfully. Some folks like to do things to provoke you in what I can only guess is a sideways attempt at testing what they've heard rather than simply asking the question respectfully.

Not only that, but I don't seem to have nearly as many questions about their culture as they do. Do I pay more attention? Am I more observant? More than likely not. 

Just seems odd to me that a group of people could own another group of ppl for hundreds of years and learn nothing about them. You know everything there is to know about your iPod touch before the shit hits stores. 

On the other hand, now that you've brought it up, it is rather nice to have ppl ask rather than blindly believing the ignorant things ppl tell them.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 19, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> See I agree with you so long as they ask their questions respectfully. Some folks like to do things to provoke you in what I can only guess is a sideways attempt at testing what they've heard rather than simply asking the question respectfully.
> 
> Not only that, but I don't seem to have nearly as many questions about their culture as they do. Do I pay more attention? Am I more observant? More than likely not.
> 
> ...



Obviously I don't tolerate trolls..but people really do have legit questions. And when I talk to them I realize it's not them trying to be funny, they honestly don't know. I'd rather answer the question instead of people being too afraid to ask so as to not seem ignorant and racist, and take the word of someone who has no clue as to what the hell they are talking about.


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## Jakke (Dec 19, 2011)

It's amusing that I sometimes gets haragued (online particulary) for being white, _and everyone knooows_ that all white people have profited by enslavement of black people, are secretly racist bigots, and should go through every day feeling ashamed about it.

Fun fact, my ancestors enslaved their own people, the vikings/norse owned *white* slaves, interestingly people generally don't believe me when I tell them that


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 19, 2011)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Obviously I don't tolerate trolls..but people really do have legit questions. And when I talk to them I realize it's not them trying to be funny, they honestly don't know. I'd rather answer the question instead of people being too afraid to ask so as to not seem ignorant and racist, and take the word of someone who has no clue as to what the hell they are talking about.


 
Not to mention such an attitude would only further prove what they've been told. 

Honestly, Jakke... Slavery isn't the issue. It's sly comments people make suggesting they know something about you, your upbringing or typical behavior based solely on your appearance that gets annoying. Example:

I was at a lunch with my boss, the guy who signs our checks, and a few other people from my work team. We were discussing places that we'd be assigned for various projects and there are some spots in DC you just don't want to be in if you don't live there, if that makes any sense. Well I expressed this sentiment about a few of the areas and a guy across the table looks at me and says "BUT YOU'RE BLACK!"

Umm...?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Dec 19, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> Not to mention such an attitude would only further prove what they've been told.



Exactly. Of course I could be all






But that would of course enforce negative stereotype and I would just be an ass for turning something potentially positive into sheer stupidity.


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## TheJokker (Dec 19, 2011)

almost everybody gets discriminated against. too fat, too skinny, too short, too tall, too pretty, too much body odor, too hairy, too bald, etc. etc. etc. people will find something different about somebody else and hold it against you. there are a million reasons why somebody might not succeed or whatever. no matter the reason there will always be people who can rise above it and overcome. racism is an excuse for losers. winners ignore what other losers think and do what they need to do to be what they want to be.

racism is all in peoples minds. you cannot see it. you cannot touch it. you cannot smell it. it only exists if you let it...


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 19, 2011)

EDIT: Ahh... Who fuckin' cares...


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## flint757 (Dec 19, 2011)

TheJokker said:


> almost everybody gets discriminated against. too fat, too skinny, too short, too tall, too pretty, too much body odor, too hairy, too bald, etc. etc. etc. people will find something different about somebody else and hold it against you. there are a million reasons why somebody might not succeed or whatever. no matter the reason there will always be people who can rise above it and overcome. racism is an excuse for losers. winners ignore what other losers think and do what they need to do to be what they want to be.
> 
> racism is all in peoples minds. you cannot see it. you cannot touch it. you cannot smell it. it only exists if you let it...



^^ This is also true minus the loser bit, tad rude IMO

I wasn't implying we should get over it and forget about it and in fact never said that. What I was saying is that, yes we should know it happened (ie. slavery, holocaust, etc.), (something the board of education in Austin is trying to disservice ), but people have this automatically blame people mentality for many things not just slavery and that was what I was referring to when I said needs to stop. We shouldn't assume things about people based on ethnicity and that is where I think being colorblind is NOT a bad thing.

People shouldn't assume that anyone is the same in the broader sense or in the sense of independent cultures in general. I'm from Texas and most people live in the cities and suburbs, do not ride horses, most listen to rap and most don't wear cowboy hats, but that is not what people who haven't been here think. 

I get what y'all are saying and we definitely should understand each others cultures, but the truth is especially in the US after a few generations most of us don't have a "culture" in a real sense to begin with. I'm polish, but 3rd generation in US and I can tell you I know nothing about Poland. Same can be said about most immigrants.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 19, 2011)

^ Well in all fairness, I think that has to do with the fact that in many cases ignorance breeds ignorance--literally.

You see... While folks like Drakkar and myself don't blame white ppl for "what happened to my people" (fuck that pseudo-Black Panther nonesense) we were raised by folks who did experience quite a bit of racial discrimination and in some cases they may have even been physically persecuted. Hell, my great grandmother used to clean floors on her hands and knees for a white family that treated her like less than the dirt in their shoe tread.

The difference is that some folks are raised by the folks that experience it and take what they've been told to mean that this is simply how white people (or black people or whoever, depending on what side of the coin you call home) are. Then all of their shortcomings are of course "the fault of the white man who doesn't want us to get anywhere..."

Some of us know how to think for ourselves and form our own opinions of people beyond what we've been told. These are people like the ones Drakkar describes who take it upon themselves to ask the questions they want to know about other cultures so that they can get along with them more amicably... And people like Drakkar who facilitate such knowledge transfers.


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## tacotiklah (Dec 21, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> You don't address that said hatred was inadvertantly bred into the culture. Didn't Randy already talk ab how we were introduced to this nation? At the same time you yourself experience or may have experienced some discrimination as a result of your "lifestyle."
> 
> Whether or not you actually harbor resentment I'll never really know but I'd understand if you did.
> 
> Also, name calling is probably the most benign symptom of racism possible particularly considering the racial slurs towards whites imply no premature judgement of one's mental capacity. Not that that makes it any more right, but white Americans whining ab a black guy calling them honkey just comes off as juvenile considering the history of racial tension in this country and abroad.




I don't see it as whining, but rather a double standard of "We want equality and that includes not being called racial slurs, but because you did so much atrocities, we're entitled to call you whatever we like." The thing there is that I believe I should only be held accountable for my own actions. Given that I did nothing other than try to be nice and talk politely to them, the hostility and racism in that scenario was all their doing. 

I also don't buy the 'reverse-racism isn't the same as racism' argument. If you attack another person based on race, whether verbal or physical, you are demonstrating racism. In my viewpoint of things there is either racism, or tolerance. The only grey area I see in there is when it comes to humor. I believe that racial based jokes can actually alleviate racial tension (provided it's in good taste) because I feel that if we can't laugh at our differences, then we are taking life far too seriously. Even then, I wonder if can still be damaging...

I try my best to endeavor to treat people based on their words and actions, and not because they look or act different. All I ask is that they treat me the same way. It's a matter of mutual respect that sadly, many people lack.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 21, 2011)

I'm tired of arguing semantics...


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## Jakke (Dec 22, 2011)

The juridical definition of a racist act is something along the lines of "acting negatively upon another person's skin colour". So strictly speaking, a man jumped for being white is subject to a hate-crime and the terms "honkey" or "cracker" are racial slurs, there is really no question about it. But then, the issue is wheather it is a big problem, I would say that it is not. 

Racism towards non-whites is still a much, much larger issue, but I see the current attitude that whites cannot be subjected to racism as problematic. 
Also, inserting degrees of severity inside a specific crime based on a person's skin colour, is not that racism itself?


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

Seems to me we spend more time worrying about definitions than how it is we should go about tackling the problem. 

Moreover, it's my understanding that whites have even been known to discriminate against each other in the past based on how light skinned one is in reference to another. I believe this is one of the driving forces behind why the aristocracy used to wear such pale makeup and such--to distinguish between themseleves and the common folk. 

These are symptoms of a disease you perpetuated even within your own ranks. This is why I don't feel bad. 

But even more to the point. How is how we define racism at all helping get to the bottom of what we observe? We can spend all day saying... "You don't like me because ____ and by definition that makes you a racist." But where has finger pointing ever gotten you but further lost in ignorance? What are we doing to get people to see how stupid it is to do these kinds of things? How are we making strides toward cultural tolerance across the board? We aren't. 

No one seems willing to extend the olive branch. Much like our immigration "problem" where folks want to bitch that people of another country don't want to assimiliate. Yes, it's annoying, but if they're going to be living here with us any way shouldn't we be making efforts to understand them? Do you not think that if we could reach some common ground that they may at some point choose to assimilate? It's not always so easy when any time you go to speak to someone they snarl at you for not being like them. And not only that but typically they're immigrating here for issues much larger than trying to soak up American culture. 

The reaction a lot of immigrants get from Americans is the same thing a lot of white folks are in here complaining about now. "I tried to be nice to a black guy and he called me a honkey." Boo fucking hoo. You see what the shoe feels like and you don't like it. That's the point the lady in the videos was making to the children and it seems some folks still don't fucking get it. Whether you specifically do it is of no consequence obviously bc to the ignorant mind you're ALL THE SAME. Black people experience this all day. I've already given examples of the type of shit I put up with all the time with people making assumptions about the type of living conditions I'll find acceptable simply based on my appearance. Complaining about it gets you nowhere as with most problems born of ignorance.

What's more... Honkey, cracker, whatever the fuck else you get called. What do those words mean? Before people desperately looked for something to call you in response those words had no meaning at all. "......" on the other hand, had a meaning well before it was attached to a race of people and for that reason I feel the word carries far more weight than any of the silly names white people get called these days. I think you just want something to bitch about. 

The way any one minority group feels about you has never affected you the way prejudice has affected minority groups socially or economically--at least not in America. If name calling is your biggest issue I'd say you're crying over spilt milk and you need to get the fuck over it.


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## Jakke (Dec 22, 2011)

So just because of our past, we should shut just up? 
Are you familiar with the fact that it was black slavers who were the first step in the slave trade with the americans? And as a matter of fact that slavery exists in many parts of africa still, and that it existed long before the europeans came there?

No, pointing fingers does not breed tolerance, not the slightest, but neither does paying the race card as soon as someone says something uncomfortable (this is not a personal accusation, mind). 
I have never been one for pampering people from nasty things. 
-So this man said something bad? Well, say something nasty in return! 

Everyone is offended from something these days, and now that we are approaching a scenario where something that can be slightly interpreted as racism towrads someone that is not white is an hanging offence (existing racism or not, "Someone got offended!"), while stereotyping whites are the absolute right thing to do, and you are a very progressive person to "problematize" your/someone else's race... 
But guess what? Tolerance works both ways, and you cannot justify something that is, let's face it, racial stereotyping, with "but his ancestors did something really bad to my ancestors, so I am justified in this!". The people you are denying a legal definition with "oh, it's not racism towards them!" can't help who their family was. Are they supposed to suffer because of what their uneducated ancestors did?

And me? Who's family never have owned any black slaves (I can't guarantee no slave ownership, see above post), should I just shut up as well, "because all whites are racist assholes if they can get away with it? 
I'm sorry Konsfyouszd, I consider you a friend, and I hope you consider me one. I enjoy your posts, both here and on facebook, but it seems to boil down to that, that all whites are inheretly racist, and it has always been like that. Most of all, we deserve everything that comes to us, and you are okay with that .


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

Wow... You're missing the point on a troll like level... I'm just going to let this go bc you aren't even trying to get it. Quit getting butt hurt and read what's actually being written. You're acting just like the people you're speaking out against. That's the problem.

I see no need to repeat myself as we all seem to have been reading this thread the whole time but you seem to want to pick apart each successive post and completely ignore what was written in previous posts.

The people of this generation were raised by folks that experienced some REAL racism. Name calling and making fun of someone for being a particular race is mild compared to having to use a separate bathroom, getting hit with fire hoses and having dogs sicked on you. This isnt anything anyone has experienced since the 60s but the fact remains that those alive during that time went on to raise children whom they told about these experiences and god forbid those anecdotes be a bit biased.

Now imagine you've been told since a child that there's a strong possiblity that white ppl will be this way. Particularly considering things like affirmative action--which basically says everyone who isn't white or Asian NEEDS a boost--still exists. While some of us go on to realize that there are some ppl that aren't like us that will still accept us as human beings there are quite a few that don't. If every white person they've met until you was a douchebag, guess what? They might not be all that friendly to you. I know plenty of white folks that use the same exact justification for being a racist. Does it make it right? No. But if all you know is what you've been told/experienced and you've been told stories ab racial tension and experience it more often than not, some folks take that to mean that that's the way it is.

I still don't get why we're talking in absolutes when it's quite apparent the folks participating in this conversation don't share the views of those being discussed.

What makes it most difficult--in my eyes--is that everyone is raised differently and everyone's experiences, regardless of how they were raised, are different.


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## Jakke (Dec 22, 2011)

Yes, I understand perfectly well, we white people have discriminated against each other in the past, thus we cannot complain when someone lashes out against us because of our skin colour *today*. Do you not see the problem about dismissing something on the grounds of history the individual has no power over? "Well, 400 years ago these people's ancestors were very bigotted people, every white person living now carries exactly the same responsibility!" And don't talk about misunderstanding, that was exactly what you said. 

I already said this is not a big problem, I am not trying to get sympathy points, I don't need them. These matters are however slippery slopes, and we should be aware of a possibly negative outcome.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

This is going nowhere as you still fail to address my overall point. I'm done with this. This is how every conversation goes with people. "I'm not responsible for what other white people before me did." We get that. That's not the issue. No one is blaming you for that (but clearly the people you're complaining about have taken the time to consider this, right? ). People are raised with different values and their view of the world is shaped by those that created them. Ignorant people have kids too and at an alarming rate. 

So quit asking "Why do black people respond to me like this?" and realize that asking an intelligent black man to explain the habits of an ignorant black man is kind of difficult. For instance, can you explain to me the mind set of any surpremacist group beyond an objective "outsider-looking-in" perspective? And does such a perspective indicate any sort of true understanding or just speculation? Your best bet is to avoid people who act this way. Strugging to understand them is only going to frustrate you in the long run and it's always best to show someone rather than tell/convince them verbally them that their view is silly. 

The best I can give you is that people who experienced some real shit passed down their experiences to their offspring and not everyone takes everything the same way. If this bothers you, you have 2 options: Get over it and keep on keepin' on or kill yourself.


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## Nimgoble (Dec 22, 2011)

Here's what I've gathered from this:

It seems that Jakke thinks that people who are racist against white people of today are doing so because of things that the ancestors of white people have done. Konfyouzd ...begs to differ(?), saying that the racists of today are raised by people who have been victims of racism from whites and that this is to be expected.

So, fundamentally, you're on the same page. It seems that Jakke is arguing that it's wrong to hold the actions of our parents against us and Konfyouzd's position can be summed up in this post:



> The best I can give you is that people who experienced some real shit passed down their experiences to their offspring and not everyone takes everything the same way. If this bothers you, you have 2 options: Get over it or kill yourself.



It seems to me that the both of you are arguing different points. Jakke is arguing what SHOULD be done and Konfyouzd is arguing about the way things are...

Did I miss something somewhere?


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

Perhaps that's why this is so annoying. My point really is that you can't change that someone holds something against you for any reason unless you're willing to sit down with said person and really hash out the issue.

Asking "Why do people act like this?" is only going to lead to you asking that question again if you're not asking the people with whom you tend to experience said phenomenon. What can any of us do to help you? Call the League of Negroes and have them get on this issue right away?


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## Jakke (Dec 22, 2011)

Ok, I have never provoced any sort of negative reaction from someone who is black, neither has someone black provoked me sufficiently. I don't argue this out of self-interest. You continue to call me an ignorant cry-baby in everything but the word, bur you fail to see the crucial point, no-one is denying you to be treated like human beings, but equality works both ways, it's in the name see, it does not work by putting some people on a pillar.

But you did say that we should not complain about be stereotyped because many of our ancestors were racist asses, how is that not being responsible for what they did/thought? 

I can easily explain the mindset of KKK, it is not quantum physics. They are uneducated people that are scared as hell. They are dogmatically following when other people tell them to be scared, with disastrous results (as we all know). But mentioning the KKK is besides the point, they have nothing to do with this to be honest (and probably a violation of an incarnation of Godwin's law, of some sorts...).

I'm not disputing that slavery and segregation happened, nor that it was horrible to it's victims. But lets be frank here, the line you are proposing is inequality in front of the law... And at that one based on skin colour.

If this is difficult to argue, by all means, opt out. But please, and I cannot stress this enough, consider that racism does not only work one way. Please.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

Jakke... I invite you to quote any single post in which I called you ignorant. You're reading with your emotions. Stop it.



PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Living in the US I can attest to racism running the full gambit. I've seen racism against blacks, but quite honestly (at least in my area) I see WAY more black hostility towards whites, with whites constantly worrying about stepping on black people's toes. The whole situation depresses me really- Dr. King was for equality, not beneficiary stances on either side. He must be rolling in his grave.


 
Also... It seems like this was ignored... 

The way things were intially set up allowed for us to rather easily use the race card bc at one point it was actually a rather valid card to play.

Now it seems that some have gotten comfortable with using this card in place of manning up and taking responsiblity. This has also been passed down unfortunately and it's the reason I would whole-heartedly support removing institutions like affirmative action, which in my opinion has given the ignorant an undeserved sense of entitlement to everything.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

Jakke said:


> I can easily explain the mindset of KKK, it is not quantum physics. They are uneducated people that are scared as hell. They are dogmatically following when other people tell them to be scared


 
How is this any different from black ppl that act like an ass to you when you've done nothing but be nice? This is what I mean by missing my point. You're doing it again. You think educated black folks are the ones lashing out at you for existing in a particular shade? 

I never said it only worked one way either. You're getting butt hurt and putting words in my mouth.

The way it "should be" seldom coincides with how it is.

It's just funny to me that name calling and an overall shitty disposition are all people can complain about these days and it still ends up being a big deal. I thought these were things they taught us to get over in kindergarten.


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## Nimgoble (Dec 22, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> Perhaps that's why this is so annoying. My point really is that you can't change that someone holds something against you for any reason unless you're willing to sit down with said person and really hash out the issue.



That's not the only option. You could, theoretically, convince said persons that you shouldn't hold the actions of a few against the many. This would negate racism.



Konfyouzd said:


> Asking "Why do people act like this?" is only going to lead to you asking that question again if you're not asking the people with whom you tend to experience said phenomenon. What can any of us do to help you? Call the League of Negroes and have them get on this issue right away?



Not necessarily true. You can come across the information from a third party. It'll be a generalization of why people typically behave that way, but it'll be more useful than you're giving it credit for.

And you joke about the "League of Negroes" thing, but it's not actually a bad idea(the name not withstanding): Organize a group of people to compile a list of grievances that are generally seen and educate the other side.

Fundamentally, you're joking about taking action. And that's not a matter to joke about. It's the solution to this problem.


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## Jakke (Dec 22, 2011)

I appologize, it was uncalled for reading into something you obviously feel very strongly about.

I agree with you, and this also happens in my country, the general attitude is to play the race card when something goes against you (not you-you, of course). Given we do not have the same amount of black people.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

The fact that we still see each other as "sides" can't possibly be helping the matter. And organizing a coalition of one group of people to "educate" another just sounds like asking to stir the pot. 

Furthermore, all we do now is call each other names like a bunch of little kids. 

I think we have more important issues than to organize a committee to mediate this nonesense. 

Just for shits and giggles...

If you met someone of your race that was mean to you for no reason at all would you read this far into it?


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## Nimgoble (Dec 22, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> The fact that we still see each other as "sides" can't possibly be helping the matter.



You and I aren't on "sides" of our choosing. We have, however, been placed there by default, in the eyes of racists. So, in that context, we are on opposing sides. But we're the people on each side that want to end the conflict, period.



Konfyouzd said:


> And organizing a coalition of one group of people to "educate" another just sounds like asking to stir the pot.



It's better than no education at all. And my point was for our theoretical "League of Negroes" to compile a list of grievances that the black racist community has against the white community, in general. Then publish it in some manner. Leave it open for the white community to respond to. The white community could do the same for it's own racist community and post the results.

Think of these groups as mediators between racist communities.

*shrug* It's an option. Critique it as you will, but know this: It's more productive than shrugging your shoulders and saying "LOLOLOL THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS!".



Konfyouzd said:


> Furthermore, all we do now is call each other names like a bunch of little kids.



You mean like that group of high school kids that ran over that black man a little while ago? Or the black guy that was abducted and dragged behind a pickup truck until there was barely anything left of his body? 



Konfyouzd said:


> I think we have more important issues than to organize a committee to mediate this nonesense.



Sure we do. And there's no reason we can't work on them all at the same time.



Konfyouzd said:


> Just for shits and giggles...
> 
> If you met someone of your race that was mean to you for no reason at all would you read this far into it?



Depends on what was said. This isn't just some white guy being a dick to some black guy(or vice-versa) for no reason. There are certain things that are said that give clues to the motivation of said asshole. If the asshole said something to me that hinted at them contributing to a much larger issue, then: Yes, I would. Homophobic remarks, for example.


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## Jakke (Dec 22, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> How is this any different from black ppl that act like an ass to you when you've done nothing but be nice? This is what I mean by missing my point. You're doing it again. You think educated black folks are the ones lashing out at you for existing in a particular shade?
> 
> I never said it only worked one way either. You're getting butt hurt and putting words in my mouth.
> 
> ...



It's not any difference! Have I claimed there is? Have I said that all blacks are racists towards whites? Of course not. You complain about me reading into the meaning of your posts but yet you persist in doing just that.

No skin colour is free of shitty attitudes, but the issue is how the enviroment reacts to that attitude based on the perpetrators skin colour.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

You used a phrase: "... in the eyes of racists." 

Why are they calling the shots?

Why spend time trying to help someone that doesn't want it? That's energy that could be spent enjoying life.

Why does what someone else thinks about you really matter unless it takes the roof from over your head, the clothes off your back or the food out of your mouth?

I think maturity plays an important role in the whole racism phenomenon as well and as many of us already know... Some people NEVER grow up. That doesn't make them your responsiblity.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

Jakke said:


> It's not any difference! Have I claimed there is? Have I said that all blacks are racists towards whites? Of course not. You complain about me reading into the meaning of your posts but yet you persist in doing just that.
> 
> No skin colour is free of shitty attitudes, but the issue is how the enviroment reacts to that attitude based on the perpetrators skin colour.


 
I didn't say that's what you said, Jakke... Goddammit quit being so fucking sensitive. I used what you said as a means for further proving my point. The part of your post that I quoted was my point VERBATIM. That is all.

Your explanation of the KKK can be applied to every person that responds negatively toward you simply as a result of your skin color. That's the point I've been making the whole time that everyone seems to want to make something more out of. I made you speak my point and somehow it's still lost on you.


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## Jakke (Dec 22, 2011)

I have been working the same point as well, but we seem to have run past each other. People are asses regardless of colour, agreed?


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

Absolutely. But we didn't need this thread to come to this conclusion. 

The way I see it is this... 

I meet a person... Person is an ass to me. Regardless of their reasoning I avoid said person from here on out unless they reach out to me in a more respectful manner in the future. The end.


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## Nimgoble (Dec 22, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> You used a phrase: "... in the eyes of racists."
> 
> Why are they calling the shots?



Come on... I'm not saying that, since they've designated us to be on opposite sides, that we have to play the part. That doesn't change the fact that they view us as being on opposite sides. And who better to approach the racists and find out their point of view than someone of their own race?



Konfyouzd said:


> Why spend time trying to help someone that doesn't want it? That's energy that could be spent enjoying life.



You don't know that they don't want help. They could very well just be ignorant. Also, this isn't for their sole benefit. Which leads me to:



Konfyouzd said:


> Why does what someone else thinks about you really matter unless it takes the roof from over your head, the clothes off your back or the food out of your mouth?
> 
> I think maturity plays an important role in the whole racism phenomenon as well and as many of us already know... Some people NEVER grow up. That doesn't make them your responsiblity.



I didn't say that it necessarily did. But the racist mindset DOESN'T just affect other racists. As I stated above, people have lost their lives because of this mindset. It IS affecting us. There is the potential that it could affect you, personally. That's why these people are our responsibility: for our OWN safety.



Konfyouzd said:


> The way I see it is this...
> 
> I meet a person... Person is an ass to me. Regardless of their reasoning I avoid said person from here on out unless they reach out to me in a more respectful manner in the future. The end.



Horrendously short-sighted point of view.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

I don't like that things are being defined from the racists' point of view. Particularly if we're in agreement that we don't agree with that. What's so short sided about avoiding ppl that you don't enjoy?

Oh I'm supposed to try to befriend someone that chooses to hate me before they know me? Fuck that. I have plenty of other things to worry about without making them a priority in my life. FUCK EM.

If people choose to ask questions respectfully like we'd mentioned when Drakkar was around then yeah that's fine. But it's not my duty to educate the ppl that have problems with me for looking a certain way. In my opinion that's their problem. If you're worried about getting hurt as a result, there's a million reasons someone might decide to hurt you. Learn to fucking stand up for yourself and stop expecting everyone else to do it for you.


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## Nimgoble (Dec 22, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> I don't like that things are being defined from the racists' point of view. Particularly if we're in agreement that we don't agree with that. What's so short sided about avoiding ppl that you don't enjoy?
> 
> Oh I'm supposed to try to befriend someone that chooses to hate me before they know me? Fuck that. I have plenty of other things to worry about without making them a priority in my life. FUCK EM.



It seems that we've lost context a bit. I'm talking about the words of others inspiring you to contribute towards changing hazardous social issues.

You think that I'm saying that you should befriend the racist. Quite the contrary. I agree: Fuck 'em. Don't talk to them ever again. That's fine. But you can still battle the behavior they exhibit without ever talking to them again.

DAMN YOU AND YOUR EDITING! 



Konfyouzd said:


> If people choose to ask questions respectfully like we'd mentioned when Drakkar was around then yeah that's fine. But it's not my duty to educate the ppl that have problems with me for looking a certain way.



Well, it is your duty if you want to minimize the chances of falling prey to a racist.



Konfyouzd said:


> In my opinion that's their problem.



As well as the problem of their victims, of which you are a potential candidate:
Hate Crime statistics from 2009
Relevant Table



Konfyouzd said:


> If you're worried about getting hurt as a result, there's a million reasons someone might decide to hurt you. Learn to fucking stand up for yourself. Throwing yourself a pity party keeps you in the victim category no matter what.



Once again, you're making the assumption that all options there can't be done. You can learn to defend yourself, sure. But it's also a fantastic idea to try to prevent the attacks before they happen. And this is just talking about physical confrontations. We haven't even approached racism in the workplace, etc.

Also: Combating social issues is in no way throwing a pity party for one's self.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

Also, I think there's a difference between someone who hates people for no reason and someone who feels so strongly about it they have to act on it.

There are some who say "I hate ____." And they simply decide to be as rude and/or difficult w/ those ppl bc they just have to let you know they don't like you for being you.

There are others who want you GONE for being different. I see the difference as being a racist vs being a racial extremist but again we've gone back to defining things.

At any rate, if someone wants to just pop off at the mouth bc they have ignorant opinions of those that share my phenotype, meh... Fuck em. They're stupid and it seems that more of the world is starting to share this opinion. And sometimes shit like that just doesn't go away easily.

Look at the responses in the thread about beating your wife for instance... 

It's safe to say it's generally unacceptable to do this, but not long ago in America it was acceptable to beat your wife with a stick no thicker than your thumb. I'm not sure how many hands you've seen in your lifetime but some guys have some MASSIVE fucking thumbs. And really that's beside the point. Beating the person you supposedly love enough to share the rest of your life with is just ridiculous.

You can't change everyone's views at once, and the fact remains that a lot of the folks that experienced severe racial extremism (as I've recently defined it) are still alive and they may very well influence a lot of things still. 

As time goes on I think certain ideas will fade to the background. And what we see today is nowhere near as bad as what we've seen before. It's just not where we want it to be yet.


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## renzoip (Dec 22, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> But it's not my duty to educate the ppl that have problems with me for looking a certain way. In my opinion that's their problem.




This, so much. Something that bothers me is when someone expects me to justify the attitudes of my ethnic/racial group. Another thing that bothers me equally is when people of minority groups who mingle with anglo/whites take is upon themselves to either apologize for their group/race or become self loathing. 

If someone asks me something about my particular group, respectfully, then it's all good. But minorities have nothing to prove to anyone.


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## Jakke (Dec 22, 2011)

renzoip said:


> This, so much. Something that bothers me is when someone expects me to justify the attitudes of my ethnic/racial group. Another thing that bothers me equally is when people of minority groups who mingle with anglo/whites take is upon themselves to either apologize for their group/race or become self loathing.
> 
> If someone asks me something about my particular group, respectfully, then it's all good. But minorities have nothing to prove to anyone.



*Cough*Scandinavian*cough*


Not all whites are anglosaxon, I resent being lumped together with the saxons, but I'll let you off this time


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 22, 2011)

Jakke... We don't live in the same country. How frequently do you think we encounter Native Swedes in Florida and Virginia? It must be taken into consideration that if we don't deal with your people on a regular basis it kind of goes w/o saying that we're not discussing them. Also, you don't strike me as the type of person to drill me on all things black as soon as you meet a black guy that doesn't respond negatively toward you. Most Europeans that I deal with seem far more open minded about race relations than a lof the folks I encounter here on a daily basis.

But there are a lot of ppl in this country that walk up to you and bc you speak with an accent more similar to their own they view you as an ambassador for your race and feel the need to ask you: "Why do _____ ppl do this?" Which appears to assume they view us all as the same whether they can get on amicably with me or not. 

It's not always what you say, but how you choose to say it. Further, if you see I don't exhibit certain actions how could you even feel justified in asking me a question about it? I understand how one seems more approachable than the other but it's always good to be mindful of how you're coming across.


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## Jakke (Dec 22, 2011)

I do know that, it was a little joke of mine...


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