# Fender to Introduce More Signature Guitars for Female Artists



## Louis Cypher (Oct 25, 2019)

> Fender’s line-up of signature artists includes electric guitar players from a multitude of genres and backgrounds, yet there’s one thing nearly all of them have in common: a Y chromosome. But that’s all set to change in 2020, according to CEO Andy Mooney.
> 
> In a wide-ranging interview regarding Fender’s new Songs learning app, Guitar World asked Mooney how Fender is reaching out to female players, particularly following the company’s research that half of all new guitar buyers are female.
> 
> “That was a big ‘aha’ for us when we did the first research,” Mooney says. 45% of the guitars we sell every year go to first-time players, and half of those first-time players were women. That was a shocker"



https://www.guitarworld.com/news/fe...year-than-at-any-point-in-its-70-year-history

Not really sure why this would be such a shock but can't argue this would be great if more of the "big" guitar companies recognised more female players with signature guitars.

One of the guitarists GW is suggested deserves a signature is Tash Sultana. I have never heard of her tbh, but I would love to see Fender offer the strat she is playing in this pic.







Maple neck, CBS headstock, Hss, surf green or daphne blue..... add a Floyd too and I would be all over that guitar like a rash!


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## A-Branger (Oct 25, 2019)

Louis Cypher said:


> but can't argue this would be great if more of the "big" guitar companies recognised more female players with signature guitars.



its not a matter that "why they arent doing it?" like if it was some kind of obligation(or discrimination). Its a matter of the status of the player. Same principle applies to both sex players, if you play guitar, have a big following/reaching/fans, a deal that would benefit both parties, you are passionate about the brand AND you arent an asshole, then yes, you can have a signature

what people seem to forget when they jump onto the sex discrimination and/or support bandwagon is that the ratio of male vs female guitar players is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge.... in other words, its not that the brands "dont want to" give a sig to a girl, is that there are far way more guys than girls that reach the criteria. And pretty sure all the "big" and even the small brands have a female sig artist (plus more as endorsee) in their roster, so this is not a new thing either


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

A-Branger said:


> its not a matter that "why they arent doing it?" like if it was some kind of obligation(or discrimination). Its a matter of the status of the player. Same principle applies to both sex players, if you play guitar, have a big following/reaching/fans, a deal that would benefit both parties, you are passionate about the brand AND you arent an asshole, then yes, you can have a signature
> 
> what people seem to forget when they jump onto the sex discrimination and/or support bandwagon is that the ratio of male vs female guitar players is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge.... in other words, its not that the brands "dont want to" give a sig to a girl, is that there are far way more guys than girls that reach the criteria. And pretty sure all the "big" and even the small brands have a female sig artist (plus more as endorsee) in their roster, so this is not a new thing either



Did you even read the article?

Fender has identified that about half of new Fender buyers are female. Given the downward trend in guitar buying, it would behoove them to take that information seriously and market better to 50% of the population.


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## possumkiller (Oct 25, 2019)

Wasn't there a Courtney Love model already?


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

possumkiller said:


> Wasn't there a Courtney Love model already?



A Squire model in the 90's, yes.


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## Kaura (Oct 25, 2019)

About time they start giving signatures for new people. Hell, does Eric Clapton even play guitar anymore, or is he even alive? I'm just excited to see some cool new signatures by guitarists of today.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 25, 2019)

I’m not sure if this was the same survey that was raved about earlier this year on social media but it turned out they had asked 50% female and 50% male the same questions which obviously resulted in half of first time guitar players and sales being female


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## TedEH (Oct 25, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Fender has identified that about half of new Fender buyers are female.


Sure, but the pool you're marketing to is not the same pool that signature artists come from. I don't suspect that the lack of women with sig guitars is a result of not wanting to market to women, moreso that there's not as many "big" / established women to put on display.



Kaura said:


> About time they start giving signatures for new people. Hell, does Eric Clapton even play guitar anymore, or is he even alive? I'm just excited to see some cool new signatures by guitarists of today.


^ I tend to think this is more the reason that there's an imbalance in the sexes as far as sigs go. Guitar marketing has had trouble moving past the "guitar heroes" of the past - but so have guitar players on some level. Outside of circles like this site, people still assume that if you play an instrument that you must be into the same old artists that would have gotten people into music decades ago. "Oh you're a guitarist? Can you play me some Hendrix? You're a bassist? You must love Jaco and Geddy. Drummer? Then you're ooooobviously a Bonham fan."


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## MrWulf (Oct 25, 2019)

Well this reeks of meaningless PR speak. But hey if it means more overpriced model that wont sell that well like Sarah Longfield's Strandberg montrosity then go for it, Fender.


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## A-Branger (Oct 25, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Did you even read the article?
> 
> Fender has identified that about half of new Fender buyers are female. Given the downward trend in guitar buying, it would behoove them to take that information seriously and market better to 50% of the population.




Im not talking about the article

Im talking about the comment I quoted


> but can't argue this would be great if more of the "big" guitar companies recognised more female players with signature guitars



the way he wrote it make it seem like hes trying to say that it would be good if more of the "big" guitar companies would start giving signatures to female artist, like somehow they arent doing it now. In which the reason why has nothing to do with sex, reason why my comment.

I dont like this new wave of pushing stuff like "why they arent more female sig artist, there should be more....".... because they arent many artist who fill the criteria who are female, theres no discrimination, nor there should be blind support either, if the person got up there regardless of sex, then they get their guitar.

and yes, today we have a big wave of new female players, and I remember there was an article ages ago about stuff like Taylor Sift being the new "guitar hero" as many girls decided to start playing due to her. But.... although there might be lots of new players, there arent many on the "pro" level (and music styles) that the brands that WE consider "big" in here require for giving a sig guitar to. And thats my point, not that there arent girls playing guitar out there, is that theres are more guys doing so that fit the signature criteria of the guitar brands, so by default/statistics/numbers/ect, you would see someone like Ibanez having only 1 sig artist in their roster (and who knows if sudenly Ivette J would get one next year to promote the talman series)





TedEH said:


> Sure, but the pool you're marketing to is not the same pool that signature artists come from. I don't suspect that the lack of women with sig guitars is a result of not wanting to market to women, moreso that there's not as many "big" / established women to put on display.



^ this is what Im trying to say


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## TedEH (Oct 25, 2019)

A-Branger said:


> the brands that WE consider "big"


In fairness, if you mean "WE" as in the SS.O crowd, we're not exactly the target demo for Fender. The signature criteria for Fender isn't going to be the same as for Esp / Ibanez / etc. Fender's market is "anyone we can put a guitar into the hands of", not just metalheads who are picky on the internet.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Sure, but the pool you're marketing to is not the same pool that signature artists come from. I don't suspect that the lack of women with sig guitars is a result of not wanting to market to women, moreso that there's not as many "big" / established women to put on display.



Let's back up for a second.

Do you think, perhaps, the lack of female players might have something to do with over a century of marketing that has targeted, almost exclusively, heterosexual white men?

As we've learned countless times in society, if you don't include, the affect is exclusion by setting societal norms.



A-Branger said:


> Im not talking about the article
> 
> Im talking about the comment I quoted
> 
> ...



You're missing the point.

They see female players as a market they've mostly excluded, and in the interest of remaining solvent for the future are hoping to draw more female players in by introducing signature models that will hopefully connect with younger and newer players.


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## sleewell (Oct 25, 2019)

i think this is great. i really want my daughter to love guitar as much as i do.


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## TedEH (Oct 25, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Let's back up for a second.


I know, I know, it's a chicken and egg thing.

Don't get me wrong - I get that there's power behind the the whole "I only ever see men doing this, so maybe this isn't for women" kind of visual that a lot of things put out there. I just mean to acknowledge that it's a tricky hole to dig out of given that the pool of women who are guitar heroes and who fit the brand and the target demo, etc., is a much shallower pool than the men available. There's a significant challenge there.


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## StevenC (Oct 25, 2019)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I’m not sure if this was the same survey that was raved about earlier this year on social media but it turned out they had asked 50% female and 50% male the same questions which obviously resulted in half of first time guitar players and sales being female


I'm confused. In a population of 50% male and 50% female, what percentage of each should be asked the same questions in an effective and representative survey?


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

TedEH said:


> I know, I know, it's a chicken and egg thing.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I get that there's power behind the the whole "I only ever see men doing this, so maybe this isn't for women" kind of visual that a lot of things put out there. I just mean to acknowledge that it's a tricky hole to dig out of given that the pool of women who are guitar heroes and who fit the brand and the target demo, etc., is a much shallower pool than the men available. There's a significant challenge there.



It's not going to be easy, no, but it's not bad that they're trying.


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## TedEH (Oct 25, 2019)

StevenC said:


> I'm confused. In a population of 50% male and 50% female, what percentage of each should be asked the same questions in an effective and representative survey?


I think what was meant is that if you survey people based on already having an interest in guitar, than that 50% split is meaningless.

If you surveyed specifically new guitar players it means nothing. If you surveyed a random selection of people, some of whom have no interest in guitar at all, then the split means something.


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## StevenC (Oct 25, 2019)

TedEH said:


> I think what was meant is that if you survey people based on already having an interest in guitar, than that 50% split is meaningless.
> 
> If you surveyed specifically new guitar players it means nothing. If you surveyed a random selection of people, some of whom have no interest in guitar at all, then the split means something.


From what Lorcan said, not being familiar with the survey, it sure reads like it's a meaningful result. If they surveyed guitar players, then obviously bad survey is bad.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

Here's more about the data: 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...lay-helps-us-live-better-lives-300731477.html


_*"SURVEY METHODOLOGY:*
In Spring/Summer 2018, Fender commissioned a quantitative and qualitative research project with Denver-based Egg Strategy that gathered responses from 500 aspiring and beginning players from the U.S. and U.K, with a representative mix of gender, ethnicity and age."_


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## StevenC (Oct 25, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Here's more about the data:
> 
> https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...lay-helps-us-live-better-lives-300731477.html
> 
> ...


Well that's pretty lame.

Anyway, more importantly, remember a few years ago when EBMM announced the St Vincent model and people here were complaining about her getting a signature model, and since then it's been the best selling guitar for them?


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## possumkiller (Oct 25, 2019)

Why does it have to be more female artists? What about homosexual and transgender artists? Non-binary and gender-neutral? Racial minorities are also pretty underrepresented in rock and metal.


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## Señor Voorhees (Oct 25, 2019)

TedEH said:


> I know, I know, it's a chicken and egg thing.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - I get that there's power behind the the whole "I only ever see men doing this, so maybe this isn't for women" kind of visual that a lot of things put out there. I just mean to acknowledge that it's a tricky hole to dig out of given that the pool of women who are guitar heroes and who fit the brand and the target demo, etc., is a much shallower pool than the men available. There's a significant challenge there.



It's worse than "I only ever see men doing it, so I'll pass." The other guitarist in my band, who is much better than me at this point, was actively encouraged to avoid it in favor of learning piano, or violin. 

It's good, imo, that things are shifting to just encourage players regardless of gender. The pool of super talent may be small, but it can only grow if everyone encourages women to play. 

Sort of unrelated, but I'd personally love to see an Yvette Young signature. I love her aesthetic choices and playing.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 25, 2019)

All three guitar playing members of Japanese pop sensation scandal have fender sigs. 

Hopefully they become available to buy again.


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## R34CH (Oct 25, 2019)

A Lindsay Ell signature would be killer...

I've only heard of her because she showed up on a Rig Rundown but it seemed like she was a country artist...?


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## Kaura (Oct 25, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> All three guitar playing members of Japanese pop sensation scandal have fender sigs.
> 
> Hopefully they become available to buy again.



Just google'd them and this is what came across.







I fucking knew it! Women have a great taste.


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## efiltsohg (Oct 25, 2019)

They make what, like, 50+ artist models? After some point you gotta wonder if there's actually any return on producing all those. How many of them are barely distinguishable from a production model?


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## TedEH (Oct 25, 2019)

I doubt they'd be doing artist models for no return.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 25, 2019)

Only a real bunch of edgelords can have a two page thread responding to an announcement of female sig guitars with a 

whyyyy?


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## sezna (Oct 25, 2019)

possumkiller said:


> Why does it have to be more female artists? What about homosexual and transgender artists? Non-binary and gender-neutral? Racial minorities are also pretty underrepresented in rock and metal.



That’s just a red herring. It’s great that Fender would want to give girls the same access to guitar idols as boys. Heck, even if new buyers were 90% male, I’d support it if they still kept their roster 50/50 by giving out more sigs to women.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 25, 2019)

possumkiller said:


> Why does it have to be more female artists? What about homosexual and transgender artists? Non-binary and gender-neutral? Racial minorities are also pretty underrepresented in rock and metal.



This but unironically.


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## Metropolis (Oct 25, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> Only a real bunch of edgelords can have a two page thread responding to an announcement of female sig guitars with a
> 
> whyyyy?



Because it seems forced, gender, race, sexuality what ever is the reason. Why not just artists who are worthy and relevant to have a signature guitar? They just want to use it as selling point, and see what happens. Probably it will not be even financially sustainable thing to do. Generally many of these so called "groups" aren't the first marketing segment to sell guitars due to cultural differences or general interests. Why does even majority of guitar players being men would make accessibility for guitar idols worse for female gender? :^)


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 25, 2019)

Metropolis said:


> Because it seems forced, gender, race, sexuality what ever is the reason. Why not just artists who are worthy and relevant to have a signature guitar? They just want to use it as selling point. Generally many of these so called "groups" aren't the first marketing segment to sell guitars due to cultural differences or general interests. Why does even majority of guitar players being men would make accessibility for guitar idols worse for female gender? :^)



they are doing it because they think it will sell more guitars.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 25, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> they are doing it because they think it will sell more guitars.








Pretty sure Fender knows what they're doing.


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## possumkiller (Oct 25, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This but unironically.


?

What's wrong with wanting equal representation for everyone? Guitar was never something I thought was exclusive. However, if potential customers are feeling excluded, I think it would be better to represent everyone instead of trying to focus on one demographic.


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## AltecGreen (Oct 25, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Well this reeks of meaningless PR speak. But hey if it means more overpriced model that wont sell that well like Sarah Longfield's Strandberg montrosity then go for it, Fender.



I wouldn't call it meaningless. The whole idea of an artist signature model is to get fans to buy their heroes guitar irrespective of gender. This is not a new thing. If the demographics of your customer base has significantly changed, it makes good business sense to adjust and cater to your customers. Targeting your marketing towards half your client base is a sound idea.

Someone already mentioned the Scandal signature guitars. Fender has had a relationship with Scandal for many years. They originally all had Squire instruments then mainline Fender instruments. These sell quite well. Japan has a far larger population of female musicians. Every other day you see a new all-female band form across many genres especially metal. The running joke is that when a woman in Japan becomes a metal fan she starts her own band. The main problem is that outside of Babymetal, Japanese bands are not well know outside of Japan. This is due largely in part of the language barrier and the fact most bands and their labels do not feel the need to go outside of Japan.

What is interesting is that quite a few small Japanese boutique manufacturers offer female signature models. Vellmor probably wouldn't even be known within Japan if they didn't make thesignature basses for F Chopper Koga of Gacharic Spin. The Japanese pop\rock band Girlfriend are only three years old but all three string players have signature Sago instruments. Rio of Mary's Blood also has a signature Sago bass. Rio's guitar counterpart, Saki, pushes Killer guitars. Misa of Band-maid uses a custom Black Cloud bass. Dean and Infinite use Miyako of Lovebites to sell their guitars. and so on. This marketing works. I discovered all of these guitar brands through the musicians and their bands.


I have no idea whether Sarah's signature is selling. But they are selling the Lock (Riko Kohara) Raise a Suilen Strandberg guitar like hotcakes in Japan. This is a $5k+ instrument. It maybe overpriced but the fans will buy them.


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## MrWulf (Oct 25, 2019)

The cynic in me simple see that this is a marketing ploy. And more power to them. They wants to make money and they are allowed to do as much as they want in order to do so within reasons. But as the NBA and Blizzard have shown, it is extremely easy to hide behind something as a way to market your products.


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## AltecGreen (Oct 25, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> The cynic in me simple see that this is a marketing ploy. And more power to them. They wants to make money and they are allowed to do so. But as the NBA and Blizzard have shown, it is extremely easy to hide behind something as a way to market your products.


A signature guitar is all about marketing regardless of gender.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 25, 2019)

AltecGreen said:


> I wouldn't call it meaningless. The whole idea of an artist signature model is to get fans to buy their heroes guitar irrespective of gender. This is not a new thing. If the demographics of your customer base has significantly changed, it makes good business sense to adjust and cater to your customers. Targeting your marketing towards half your client base is a sound idea.
> 
> Someone already mentioned the Scandal signature guitars. Fender has had a relationship with Scandal for many years. They originally all had Squire instruments then mainline Fender instruments. These sell quite well. Japan has a far larger population of female musicians. Every other day you see a new all-female band form across many genres especially metal. The running joke is that when a woman in Japan becomes a metal fan she starts her own band. The main problem is that outside of Babymetal, Japanese bands are not well know outside of Japan. This is due largely in part of the language barrier and the fact most bands and their labels do not feel the need to go outside of Japan.
> 
> ...



ya Japan has a ton of female sig guitars. 

Tons and tons and tons. 

Except the raise a suilen don’t count. That’s an anime you weeb.


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## Metropolis (Oct 25, 2019)

possumkiller said:


> ?
> 
> What's wrong with wanting equal representation for everyone? Guitar was never something I thought was exclusive. However, if potential customers are feeling excluded, I think it would be better to represent everyone instead of trying to focus on one demographic.



Because in music someone being gay is in bottom of the priority list and life or world doesn't work like that. And this thing is a total can of worms anyway.


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## AltecGreen (Oct 25, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> Except the raise a suilen don’t count. That’s an anime you weeb.



Ha Ha Ha!! I knew someone was going to call me on that one.  Is it anime? is it a manga? a videogame? or a band? Out of the three live bands, Raise a Suilen are actually made up of real musicians. Natsume was the drummer in Cyntia for a while and Riko Kohara was the guitarist in Sketchbook. 


I have to admit that I am fascinated by the entire concept of BangDream.


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## MrWulf (Oct 25, 2019)

AltecGreen said:


> A signature guitar is all about marketing regardless of gender.



Yes thats why they are going so hard on a specific gender with this.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 25, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Yes thats why they are going so hard on a specific gender with this.



we get it. You just learned about marketing. And you hate women.


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## AltecGreen (Oct 25, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> Yes thats why they are going so hard on a specific gender with this.




They would be stupid not to do it from the business standpoint. Of course, gender brings in a whole lot of other context in our day and age that cannot easily be separated from a pure business decision. I would say in Japan, there is no other agenda other than making money. They have been doing this for a long time.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 25, 2019)

possumkiller said:


> ?
> 
> What's wrong with wanting equal representation for everyone? Guitar was never something I thought was exclusive. However, if potential customers are feeling excluded, I think it would be better to represent everyone instead of trying to focus on one demographic.



I was agreeing with you, but sometimes I can't tell when people are trolling or not.


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## MrWulf (Oct 25, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> we get it. You just learned about marketing. And you hate women.



I mean if being cynical about it makes me a misogynist then ok? Much in the same way that i'm a Chinaphobe for laughing at Blizzard and NBA's bend of the knee toward China. 



AltecGreen said:


> They would be stupid not to do it from the business standpoint. Of course, gender brings in a whole lot of other context in our day and age that cannot easily be separated from a pure business decision. I would say in Japan, there is no other agenda other than making money. They have been doing this for far long time.



At least, it is the simplest and purest motive, from a certain standpoint, ironically


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 25, 2019)

MrWulf said:


> I mean if being cynical about it makes me a misogynist then ok? Much in the same way that i'm a Chinaphobe for laughing at Blizzard and NBA's bend of the knee toward China.
> 
> 
> 
> At least, it is the simplest and purest motive, from a certain standpoint, ironically




Only people that are super edgy think pointing out something as obvious as marketing is cynical.

businesses exist to make money ya’ll.


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## MrWulf (Oct 25, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> Only people that are super edgy think pointing out something as obvious as marketing is cynical.



It is not quite as obvious as you think but hey you are free to come to your conclusion.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 25, 2019)

AltecGreen said:


> Ha Ha Ha!! I knew someone was going to call me on that one.  Is it anime? is it a manga? a videogame? or a band? Out of the three live bands, Raise a Suilen are actually made up of real musicians. Natsume was the drummer in Cyntia for a while and Riko Kohara was the guitarist in Sketchbook.
> 
> 
> I have to admit that I am fascinated by the entire concept of BangDream.



I mean. The anime came first right. And then the characters in the show play instruments. But they aren’t real people. They are drawings. 

But there is a real band. But the real band is a bunch of musicians hired to dress like the anime characters and play their guitars. 

The guitars are the sigs of the anime characters. 

Also only the Strandberg comes in an super expensive only version. 

The esp ones are pretty affordable.


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## Señor Voorhees (Oct 25, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This but unironically.



To put out an actual answer, I think there's a difference. (Opinion time.) It's mostly a gender role divide, I feel. That is to say, if you're f-m trans, you're going to want to do "man" things like play guitar. If you're m-f, you're likely to feel pressured into doing "woman" things. If you're non-binary or gender-neutral, I doubt you give a fuck about gender roles so you'll pick up the guitar if it's something you're interested in. Racial minorities, as far as I'm aware, aren't really prodded away from guitar either. Nobody bats an eye at a black, asian, hispanic, etc guitarist. Blues alone is pretty jam packed with black guitarists, and then there's the "virtuistic asian" stereotype (which, while offensive, lends evidence to the fact that they're not turned away from guitar) to name a couple examples... They're not discouraged from it, and it really does usually come down to the archaic gender roles/expectations.

Also, not sure why it was even brought up as being "under-represented in metal." Metal isn't the only guitar genre, and certainly not what Fender focuses on.

Apologies if my wording is bad. I'm aware gender identity and race are very touchy subjects, that I may not be the most graceful talking about. I could be way off base, but this is in a nutshell how I sort of see it.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Oct 25, 2019)

I'm super down for this. Unlike the majority of guitar-brands Fender is probably the best at targeting the female guitarist (given their ads over the past number of years). Not that other brands aren't targeting women and giving female-players sig models, but Fender is doing a much better job--excluding perhaps sig-model offerings, which they do from time-to-time but not as often as they should, which of course it looks like Fender is attempting to remedy.

Unlike most other brands, it would appear that a lot of women/female players already gravitate toward Fender already based on their 'typical' offerings--this may just be a function of Fender's mass popularity already. It seems like a strong majority of female players that already exist are already playing Strats, Teles, Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Mustangs.... Gibson has tried to dabble in the female market though and they have failed miserably in my opinion (Gibson Goddess and Vixen models). I think part of the problem with marketing to female players (in the past) has been to make a guitar that is 'girly', and this, for the most part, has not done very well. Taking a guitar that already exists and making it pink and putting sparkles on it is great (I know I love it, although I'm not a woman lol) but most women can 'see through' this empty marketing strategy. I think women players want something 'non-gimmicky', where they are being taken seriously as a musician and not some cheap 'girly guitar'. Although some women, and even men like myself, do dig the 'girly guitars'. 

ESP has done a pretty good job with female-sig-models (mostly in the Japanese market), and as mentioned, EBMM's St. Vincent model has done really really well (is this EBMM's first entry into female-sigs?).

All-in-all I'm glad to see Fender not only targeting the female player (as well as other social minorities in terms of race/ethnicity) with their typical advertising, but also now pushing for more sig-models to 'showcase' and 'appreciate' certain 'stand-out' players.

I know she has already had a sig model or two, but I really want to see another Avril Tele sig. Maybe release a Squire version like the one she has been playing (not sure if they did this pink sparkle as a production model or not) and also do a higher end Mexi or maybe even an American Fender Tele in her pink sparkle:







Or maybe this dark blue sparkle without the gaudy inlays:


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## mlp187 (Oct 25, 2019)

This is fucking great, i am excited for more sig variety!!!


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## Avedas (Oct 25, 2019)

AltecGreen said:


> But they are selling the Lock (Riko Kohara) Raise a Suilen Strandberg guitar like hotcakes in Japan. This is a $5k+ instrument. It maybe overpriced but the fans will buy them.


That guitar is aesthetic perfection. I played one the other day. If it were a 7 I might have been at risk of purchasing one.


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## possumkiller (Oct 25, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I was agreeing with you, but sometimes I can't tell when people are trolling or not.


Fair enough. Sometimes it's hard for me to tell as well.


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## narad (Oct 25, 2019)

Avedas said:


> That guitar is aesthetic perfection. I played one the other day. If it were a 7 I might have been at risk of purchasing one.



Glow in the dark cat ears inlay! Ugh!

I would be curious of the demographics of who buys that though. Not that sig guitars fall along gender demographics, but I imagine all the people that are buying it for the character connection probably already have a girlfriend pillow to lay it on top of.

But ya, as to OP, definitely good news. Melanie Faye is like the counterpart to Mateus Asato in terms of style and means of promotion. He's got 2 sig Suhrs, least she could get is one sig Fender.


----------



## DeepSixed (Oct 25, 2019)

I'm surprised they didn't include Rebecca Lovell from Larkin Poe on their list in the article. She always plays Strats and Jazzmasters and is a great player.


----------



## possumkiller (Oct 25, 2019)

Didn't they have a Mary Kaye Stratocaster in like 1957?


----------



## diagrammatiks (Oct 25, 2019)

narad said:


> Glow in the dark cat ears inlay! Ugh!
> 
> I would be curious of the demographics of who buys that though. Not that sig guitars fall along gender demographics, but I imagine all the people that are buying it for the character connection probably already have a girlfriend pillow to lay it on top of.
> 
> But ya, as to OP, definitely good news. Melanie Faye is like the counterpart to Mateus Asato in terms of style and means of promotion. He's got 2 sig Suhrs, least she could get is one sig Fender.



it’s me. 

these are all pretty cool tho.


----------



## narad (Oct 25, 2019)

lol literally 2 instances of cat ears spotted.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

possumkiller said:


> Didn't they have a Mary Kaye Stratocaster in like 1957?



Not quite. 

They used her for promotional materials, but there was never an "official" Mary Kaye Signature model until all the way in 2005.


----------



## possumkiller (Oct 25, 2019)

Meanwhile at Gibson HQ...
https://www.guitarworld.com/amp/new...ing-a-whole-new-meaning-to-the-word-ringtones


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 25, 2019)

narad said:


> lol literally 2 instances of cat ears spotted.



well those aren’t my guitars. I keep my weird shit inside my computer. Where it belongs.


----------



## Cynicanal (Oct 25, 2019)

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Gibson has tried to dabble in the female market though and they have failed miserably in my opinion (Gibson Goddess and Vixen models)


TBH it's unfortunate that the Goddess failed so miserably, that violetburst finish was absolutely awesome.

At the same time, "it's for gurlz because it's a bit thinner and it's purple!" is just _terrible_ marketing. The slim-taper profile, thinner body, and simpler control layout aren't things that would only be desirable to women, so I don't know why Gibson handled that the way they did (well, aside from the fact that they're Gibson and therefore obliaged to screw up everything they touch _somehow_).


----------



## Mathemagician (Oct 25, 2019)

Anytime any business, or public figure does or says anything about increasing representation there is ALWAYS a vocal group (of mostly men) who want to have an entire dialogue on whether it’s “forced” or “genuine” or “valid” etc. 

They did the research and made a call. And they are a for-profit business, so “concern” over a public companies motives are all dog whistling. They just don’t like companies profiting off a net good idea. 

Do these same guys protest magazines and websites that tell teenage girls they are ugly and need make-up/diets? No. Then why protest when companies say “Try Playing Guitar or Hiking! Girls can have fun too!” 

It’s eye roll inducing. Stop worrying about how Fender spends Fender’s money. If you had valuable insight they would have hired you.


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## possumkiller (Oct 25, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> Do these same guys protest magazines and websites that tell teenage girls they are ugly and need make-up/diets? No.


I do. Not here though. This is a guitar forum.


----------



## TedEH (Oct 25, 2019)

This thread has reminded me that Nita Strauss has a signature that looks like an S. The world needs more good Ibby S guitars.


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## efiltsohg (Oct 25, 2019)

sezna said:


> It’s great that Fender would want to give girls the same access to guitar idols as boys.



I don't get it? You can't be into a guitarist unless they have a signature model? These women all presumably play fenders already


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## sezna (Oct 25, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> I don't get it? You can't be into a guitarist unless they have a signature model? These women all presumably play fenders already


That’s a fair point, anybody can do anything. 

Fender has the power to encourage people by giving signature deals which associate a certain person with their brand. In doing this with a more diverse group of people, they will be doing what is within their means to ensure there are role models and inspirational figures for a more diverse group of (mainly) impressionable children. Additionally, by associating their prestigious and famous brand with a more diverse group of artists, they are positioning the Fender community to have a chance to be more open and accepting.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum (Oct 25, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> I don't get it? You can't be into a guitarist unless they have a signature model? These women all presumably play fenders already





sezna said:


> That’s a fair point, anybody can do anything.
> 
> Fender has the power to encourage people by giving signature deals which associate a certain person with their brand. In doing this with a more diverse group of people, they will be doing what is within their means to ensure there are role models and inspirational figures for a more diverse group of (mainly) impressionable children. Additionally, by associating their prestigious and famous brand with a more diverse group of artists, they are positioning the Fender community to have a chance to be more open and accepting.



I think Sezna has it right here.

The sig-model for women push is to (among other things) shine the spotlight on certain female guitarists to acknowledge these women much like we acknowledge so many male guitarists' careers through signature gear. To create a sig-model instrument (aside from the money-making aspects, of course) is to acknowledge and appreciate the contribution of that artist, to show-case them as 'stand-out/notable' musicians in some way. 

For an artist to have 'signature gear' is one way to add to the collective-purchase/notoreity of that artists' influence on music. Part of who John Petrucci is--in the guitar community--is not just the music he plays/writes and his performance, but also how he has influenced the guitar industry with signature gear. Signature gear is just one of many ways to build-up a guitarist/musician and add to their image and influence in music and culture.


----------



## xzacx (Oct 25, 2019)

narad said:


> Melanie Faye is like the counterpart to Mateus Asato in terms of style and means of promotion. He's got 2 sig Suhrs, least she could get is one sig Fender.



I think she's awesome. I'm surprised H.E.R. doesn't have one yet. Not really the same type of player as Melanie Faye, but has a much bigger profile. I see the complaint that no one plays guitar anymore, but I think it's more that guitar looks different now than the tired-ass classic rock those people want it to be. Just today for example, the new Tiny Desk Concert features Summer Walker, who plays guitar on some of the songs. The future of guitar likely doesn't look like the past, and Fender is smart for this—even if it's strictly from a profit perspective (which is the reason they're in business).


----------



## Albake21 (Oct 25, 2019)

I don't give a shit a guitar player's gender, race, skin color, fucking I don't care. The only thing I find weird is the fact that they have to announce it and make a point that they are female. Who cares? If they are good enough, they deserve a signature. It's like the whole ridiculous quotas corporations have to meet when hiring people. Just hire who's best for the job and stop making it a statement.


----------



## sezna (Oct 25, 2019)

Albake21 said:


> I don't give a shit a guitar player's gender, race, skin color, fucking I don't care. The only thing I find weird is the fact that they have to announce it and make a point that they are female. Who cares? If they are good enough, they deserve a signature. It's like the whole ridiculous quotas corporations have to meet when hiring people. Just hire who's best for the job and stop making it a statement.


It would be nice if this mindset was feasible today. It is definitely the goal -- to get to a place where everybody thinks exactly like you are all the time. It would hypothetically eliminate all of our problems with demographic discrepancies.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of other factors at hand. Decisions like _who to hire_ or _who to sponsor _send societal messages. Historically, Fender has typically endorsed men. Historically, society has typically rewarded men for their artistic endeavors more than women. Historically, men face less criticism for things outside of their art when discussing their art. A woman is more likely to have her guitar playing ability dismissed because of how she dresses, or what her hair looks like. These things, and more, are all very subtle factors that impact every single decision in society.

It isn't obvious how to correct for this problem, but a good start is to, when possible, ensure some level of equality in these types of decisions. Fender in a lot of ways represents the electric guitar community as a whole (perhaps not on this board, but to the rest of the world). For them to do a move like this says they're at least aware of the problem and are aiming to do something about it.



Albake21 said:


> The only thing I find weird is the fact that they have to announce it


Fender is publicly traded and has lots of employees. Any policy like this is relevant to stakeholders and would be made public.

This is almost certainly not the board to post this, and this link will almost certainly go unclicked, but here's a good article that attempts to explain some of the sentiment women feel daily from society. I learned a lot from it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

Albake21 said:


> I don't give a shit a guitar player's gender, race, skin color, fucking I don't care. The only thing I find weird is the fact that they have to announce it and make a point that they are female. Who cares? If they are good enough, they deserve a signature. It's like the whole ridiculous quotas corporations have to meet when hiring people. Just hire who's best for the job and stop making it a statement.



If the goal is to engage more female players, and inclusion has shown to raise engagement, wouldn't this actually be hiring the best for the job?


----------



## Albake21 (Oct 25, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> If the goal is to engage more female players, and inclusion has shown to raise engagement, wouldn't this actually be hiring the best for the job?


According to this thread and this article, Fender's buyers are 50% women. If that's true, then it doesn't seem to matter. I guess my point is even further back. As a guy, I don't care what the guitar player looks like or their background. The only thing I care about is their hands touching the guitar. This should be the same way reversed. Why do women HAVE to have female signature artists to want to play guitar? This is about instruments.... anyone with hands and half a brain can play guitar. I'm not on either side of this debate, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here.

If I _really_ want to play devil's advocate, this could even be looked down upon. It's almost like rooting for a child like "You got it champ, you can do it too!". It's almost demeaning in a way because at the end of the day, isn't it true that it should not matter what the gender is? Can anyone else not see the hypocrisy here?

Look.... let's just play guitar and be happy together regardless of gender. That's why I love SSO so much. None of us really know each other. We don't know race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. All we know is we have a love for music and guitars. That's all that matters and I love that.


----------



## xzacx (Oct 25, 2019)

sezna said:


> A woman is more likely to have her guitar playing ability dismissed because of how she dresses, or what her hair looks like. These things, and more, are all very subtle factors that impact every single decision in society.



It's like how pretty much every thread I've ever seen on a guitar forum about a female player, someone brings up her appearance. Sometimes complimentary and respectfully, sometimes not, but that's beside the point—it doesn't happen (at least not regularly) in discussions about male guitar players.


----------



## possumkiller (Oct 25, 2019)

xzacx said:


> It's like how pretty much every thread I've ever seen on a guitar forum about a female player, someone brings up her appearance. Sometimes complimentary and respectfully, sometimes not, but that's beside the point—it doesn't happen (at least not regularly) in discussions about male guitar players.


That's because male guitar players are pretty unsexy. Kerry King? Sam Totman? Brent Hinds? 80s Hammett looks like an underage girl. The only male guitar players I'd "bang" are the beautiful Angel Vivaldi and skullet-era Devin Townsend. And maybe that YouTuber guy with big muscly arms and long black hair looking like Nathan Explosion. I think his name is Max or something in the channel is called Max or something. Anyway, 100% not gay.


----------



## StevenC (Oct 25, 2019)

John Petrucci used to be really good looking but his arms and beard got too big, and it's off putting.


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 25, 2019)

StevenC said:


> Well that's pretty lame.
> 
> Anyway, more importantly, remember a few years ago when EBMM announced the St Vincent model and people here were complaining about her getting a signature model, and since then it's been the best selling guitar for them?



One of my best friends bought one as his second electric ever. And its his absolute favorite guitar. Played it, and I completely understand why. Sounds great and is an absolute blast to play. It also looks weird, which I happen to like. I think its great that this is happening in general. Give women the sigs to encourage more women to pick it up. We just get more sigs to drool over in the process.



xzacx said:


> I think she's awesome. I'm surprised H.E.R. doesn't have one yet. Not really the same type of player as Melanie Faye, but has a much bigger profile. I see the complaint that no one plays guitar anymore, but I think it's more that guitar looks different now than the tired-ass classic rock those people want it to be. Just today for example, the new Tiny Desk Concert features Summer Walker, who plays guitar on some of the songs. The future of guitar likely doesn't look like the past, and Fender is smart for this—even if it's strictly from a profit perspective (which is the reason they're in business).



Mentioning her as the counterpart to Mateus, just reminds me that Suhr needs to give Lari Basilio a sig around yesterday. That lady can play and her guitars are gorgeous.


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## sezna (Oct 25, 2019)

This was not the topic I expected to see in this thread

ITT bangable male guitarists


----------



## Albake21 (Oct 25, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> Mentioning her as the counterpart to Mateus, just reminds me that Suhr needs to give Lari Basilio a sig around yesterday. That lady can play and her guitars are gorgeous.


Absolutely on board for this, she is such a phenomenal player with so much emotion and attention to detail.


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 25, 2019)

Albake21 said:


> Absolutely on board for this, she is such a phenomenal player with so much emotion and attention to detail.



What's funny to me is that she's a lawyer and sort of fell into the guitar thing.


----------



## Albake21 (Oct 25, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> What's funny to me is that she's a lawyer and sort of fell into the guitar thing.


You gotta be kidding me? Geez... makes me rethink my own skills haha.


----------



## StevenC (Oct 25, 2019)

George Lynch will always be hot


----------



## possumkiller (Oct 25, 2019)

StevenC said:


> George Lynch will always be hot


Idk he kinda did a Mickey Rourke and aged horribly.


----------



## Albake21 (Oct 25, 2019)

Look I'm straight and Angel Vivaldi is fucking beautiful. There's no question about it.


----------



## AkiraSpectrum (Oct 25, 2019)

Yes, Lari Basilio deserves a Suhr Classic T sig, without question!!

Lari Basilio also has a handful of Fenders, including the newer American Performer Tele in Penny--which is killer! I'm not sure if she has an endorsement through Fender as well or if she just buys them full-price. If she does have some kind of endorsement Fender should give her a signature guitar too, lol!


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 25, 2019)

Albake21 said:


> Look I'm straight and Angel Vivaldi is fucking beautiful. There's no question about it.





But no, seriously...


----------



## StevenC (Oct 25, 2019)

Albake21 said:


> Look I'm straight and Angel Vivaldi is fucking beautiful. There's no question about it.


I don't know, he has an airbrushed look to him that doesn't work for me.


----------



## Cynicanal (Oct 25, 2019)

Albake21 said:


> Why do women HAVE to have female signature artists to want to play guitar?


My guess is it's not so much about the sig models themselves, but rather the opporunity to have women rocking out in more of their marketing.

Read my post upthread about the failure of the Gibson Goddess. You can't really market a guitar as being "for women" effectively without it being stupid, pretty much any feature that would make a guitar desirable for women would also make it desirable for a bunch of men, so this kind of market segmentation at the product level would be full retard. Instead of marketing the "woman's version" of the product like is done with razors or shampoo, you're much better off showing that the product is also good for women. By having a bunch of female signature artists, you can have a bunch of photos of women playing your guitars in your marketing material, demonstrating this without being stupid or condescending about it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

Albake21 said:


> According to this thread and this article, Fender's buyers are 50% women. If that's true, then it doesn't seem to matter. I guess my point is even further back. As a guy, I don't care what the guitar player looks like or their background. The only thing I care about is their hands touching the guitar. This should be the same way reversed. Why do women HAVE to have female signature artists to want to play guitar? This is about instruments.... anyone with hands and half a brain can play guitar. I'm not on either side of this debate, I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here.
> 
> If I _really_ want to play devil's advocate, this could even be looked down upon. It's almost like rooting for a child like "You got it champ, you can do it too!". It's almost demeaning in a way because at the end of the day, isn't it true that it should not matter what the gender is? Can anyone else not see the hypocrisy here?
> 
> Look.... let's just play guitar and be happy together regardless of gender. That's why I love SSO so much. None of us really know each other. We don't know race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. All we know is we have a love for music and guitars. That's all that matters and I love that.



It's easy to have this take when you've been the principal audience since forever. 

You really should take a minute to read what @sezna posted. It's some decent insight into what it's like not being numero uno. 

Its easier to wade into something when you can see yourself in it. That's just how it is. It's why companies spend millions to include those who typically don't have representation in certain forms of entertainment.


----------



## efiltsohg (Oct 25, 2019)

xzacx said:


> It's like how pretty much every thread I've ever seen on a guitar forum about a female player, someone brings up her appearance. Sometimes complimentary and respectfully, sometimes not, but that's beside the point—it doesn't happen (at least not regularly) in discussions about male guitar players.


Well this is a forum full of mostly males. Men definitely get objectified too. Have you ever heard of groupies?


----------



## AltecGreen (Oct 25, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> I mean. The anime came first right. And then the characters in the show play instruments. But they aren’t real people. They are drawings.
> 
> But there is a real band. But the real band is a bunch of musicians hired to dress like the anime characters and play their guitars.
> 
> ...




Not quite right. The reason the concept is fascinating is because it was so ambitious. From the start they wanted to create money making empire that cut across from anime, manga, video games, TV shows, live music, etc. The strange thing is that they succeeded. When they started working on the anime, they hired voice actresses (seiyū) that had to either play an instrument or enoiugh of a musical background to learn. They also had to be able to sing. The voice actresses that voice the anime are also the members of the live band. They live out essentially the role of the characters in the anime. Sure, the instruments are the instruments of the anime character but also real instruments used by the band member/voice actress. It is genius marketing. As for Raise a Suilen, they are a bit different than the other two bands. They were first formed from musicians to serve as a backing band for the Bandori bands that didn't have real life members. Anime characters were later created for the band members and then added to the anime.

The ESP guitars come in the cheap non-Japanese made version and the really expensive ESP custom shop models.



Avedas said:


> That guitar is aesthetic perfection. I played one the other day. If it were a 7 I might have been at risk of purchasing one.



You better save money now. A seven string version exists. A few months ago, RAS were doing a special event live performance. THE YT video has since been scrubbed but on several of the songs, Riko switched to a seven string version of the Lock guitar. Likewise, Raychell switched to a five string version of the Layer bass. I would not be surprised if these come onto the market.


----------



## StevenC (Oct 25, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> Well this is a forum full of mostly males. Men definitely get objectified too. Have you ever heard of groupies?


Tosin is a legit snack


----------



## Cynicanal (Oct 25, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> Well this is a forum full of mostly males. Men definitely get objectified too. Have you ever heard of groupies?


Not quite the same thing. Rock stars get groupies largely based on their skill and performance. Women get creepers because "they're hot".



senza said:


> This is almost certainly not the board to post this, and this link will almost certainly go unclicked, but here's a good article that attempts to explain some of the sentiment women feel daily from society. I learned a lot from it.


Eh, in fairness, that article's argument is pretty shitty. "Critics liked a different TV show than I did, the only possible reason could be sexism, and I'll produce no counter-critique explaining why the one I liked is better" is a really awful way to write an essay.


----------



## efiltsohg (Oct 25, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> Not quite the same thing. Rock stars get groupies largely based on their skill and performance. Women get creepers because "they're hot".



Sorry but men absolutely get objectified for their bodies


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 25, 2019)

StevenC said:


> Well that's pretty lame.
> 
> Anyway, more importantly, remember a few years ago when EBMM announced the St Vincent model and people here were complaining about her getting a signature model, and since then it's been the best selling guitar for them?


I don't remember people complaining about them beyond the weird choice to go for mini humbuckers and the kind of shitty upper fret access. 
St. Vincent is a monstrous player and her sig is pretty cool shape wise imo, unlike yet another fucking boring tele/jazzmaster/etc. I wish more female players were pushing for interesting sigs like St. Vincent or Reba Myers tbh.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I don't remember people complaining about them beyond the weird choice to go for mini humbuckers and the kind of shitty upper fret access.
> St. Vincent is a monstrous player and her sig is pretty cool shape wise imo, unlike yet another fucking boring tele/jazzmaster/etc. I wish more female players were pushing for interesting sigs like St. Vincent or Reba Myers tbh.



The St. Vincent threads got pretty venomous. 

I know at least two got deleted, and there might be a third. Just on here.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 25, 2019)

DeepSixed said:


> I'm surprised they didn't include Rebecca Lovell from Larkin Poe on their list in the article. She always plays Strats and Jazzmasters and is a great player.


Larkin Poe does not get anywhere near enough love. Rebecca and her sister are great players imo


StevenC said:


> George Lynch will always be hot





StevenC said:


> Tosin is a legit snack





Albake21 said:


> Look I'm straight and Angel Vivaldi is fucking beautiful. There's no question about it.


Your Kinsey scores are increasing just by posting that lmao


----------



## Andromalia (Oct 25, 2019)

> The main problem is that outside of Babymetal, Japanese bands are not well know outside of Japan. This is due largely in part of the language barrier and the fact most bands and their labels do not feel the need to go outside of Japan.


Most Japanese bands are manufactured products where the artists own nothing and are just performers for someone else's music and concept. Most often they are paid employees recruited among school dropouts with a monthly salary and nothing else. They're the equivalent of the boys band of the 90es in occidental music. that business model is not approrpiate when you want to venture into the area of iconic western bands. Babymetal is more likelya fluke more than anything else, and part of the success is that they switched to a live band, which very few idol groups do.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 25, 2019)

I'm totally down for this. From busking in the Melbourne CBD streets to packing out arenas and festivals, Tash Sultana definitely deserves a sig Fender.


----------



## xzacx (Oct 25, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> Sorry but men absolutely get objectified for their bodies


No one said they don’t, the point is it’s possible to have a discussion about a male guitar player without their physical appearance becoming a point of discussion, whereas that’s rarely the case when discussing female guitar players.


----------



## efiltsohg (Oct 25, 2019)

xzacx said:


> No one said they don’t, the point is it’s possible to have a discussion about a male guitar player without their physical appearance becoming a point of discussion, whereas that’s rarely the case when discussing female guitar players.


...because this is a thread of all male posters

anyway the only mention of female guitarists' appearances here is people whining that everybody supposedly talks about them


----------



## narad (Oct 25, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> anyway the only mention of female guitarists' appearances here is people whining that everybody supposedly talks about them



Not true at all. If you don't notice it now, it's only because we reached the critical mass of deleted Orianthi shitshow threads, and even the slowest of people finally got the message.


----------



## Spicypickles (Oct 25, 2019)

Didn’t read the thread, don’t care. 

as long as the guitars look good and have specs I’m interested in, I’m equally interested in them, regardless of the genitals involved. Inclusion can definitely be a good thing, but quality over quantity in every instance did the better choice.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 25, 2019)

narad said:


> Not true at all. If you don't notice it now, it's only because we reached the critical mass of deleted Orianthi shitshow threads, and even the slowest of people finally got the message.



Oof, those were pretty bad too.


----------



## Mathemagician (Oct 25, 2019)

Sex Machineguns > Sex Pistols

There I said it. Always wanted to one-up it and start a band called Sex Bazookas.


----------



## narad (Oct 25, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> Sex Machineguns > Sex Pistols
> 
> There I said it. Always wanted to one-up it and start a band called Sex Bazookas.



Already 1-up'd:


----------



## Mathemagician (Oct 25, 2019)

narad said:


> Already 1-up'd:



My dreams dashed before they could take flight.


----------



## possumkiller (Oct 26, 2019)

Sex Quasar?


----------



## noise in my mind (Oct 26, 2019)

Skipped the thread. I could care less about the sex of a guitar player.


----------



## Adieu (Oct 26, 2019)

possumkiller said:


> Why does it have to be more female artists? What about homosexual and transgender artists? Non-binary and gender-neutral? Racial minorities are also pretty underrepresented in rock and metal.



Because females are the MAJORITY on the planet. AND can be used to sex-appeal the majority of the male minority, too, if suitably attractive candidates are selected.

Big bu$ine$$ opportunity, wide appeal.

As to a push to "include" (intentionally) "gender neutral" artists, lol. All that'll get you is a 3way faeces-slinging match between the queer hooray, queer "this is a farce like Marilyn Manson or Twisted Sister", and conservative activist camps....AND NOOOO MOOOOONEEEEY.


----------



## Andromalia (Oct 26, 2019)

Just by the imbalance of the chinese population I'm not really sure at
the moment 

That said, there's a significant difference between making more female signatures and yelling it from the rooftops while producing no model at all.


----------



## Lemonbaby (Oct 26, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> _*"SURVEY METHODOLOGY:*
> In Spring/Summer 2018, Fender commissioned a quantitative and qualitative research project with Denver-based Egg Strategy that gathered responses from 500 aspiring and beginning players from the U.S. and U.K, with a representative mix of gender, ethnicity and age."_


Funny...

It was just a matter of time before guitar companies started to panic due to the significant drop in sales. "Let's go nuts and address about any target audience we can find." As long as we get a broader choice of new guitar models, I'm in...


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## possumkiller (Oct 26, 2019)

All I really want from Fender is a standard normal sss strat with 7 strings. MiM Player series would be fine.


----------



## dr_game0ver (Oct 26, 2019)

Ho good. That's what the world needed: more strats and teles models...
I'm sorry but unless someone is coming with something unique like a Fender Explorer with bolt-on 23 frets neck with reverse 70' headstock, ebony fretboard and 3 P90' PUs, then i'm not interested.


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## narad (Oct 26, 2019)

dr_game0ver said:


> I'm sorry but unless someone is coming with something unique like a Fender Explorer with bolt-on 23 frets neck with reverse 70' headstock, ebony fretboard and 3 P90' PUs, then i'm not interested.



Sounds like they chose the better market.


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## Adieu (Oct 26, 2019)

dr_game0ver said:


> Ho good. That's what the world needed: more strats and teles models...
> I'm sorry but unless someone is coming with something unique like a Fender Explorer with bolt-on 23 frets neck with reverse 70' headstock, ebony fretboard and 3 P90' PUs, then i'm not interested.



Don't they own Charvel and Jackson?

There might actually be something fairly close there


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## possumkiller (Oct 26, 2019)

What about basses?


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## efiltsohg (Oct 26, 2019)

Let's be real, until boomers are all dead, 90% of Fender's profit margin will be from old guys who walk into a shop and buy a $2000+ guitar off the wall to live out their rockstar dreams despite barely being able to play. (likewise with marshall amps despite them barely making anything worth playing in 30+ years) There's a reason the walls at guitar stores are lined with Fenders and Gibsons even though all the guys who hang out there or play in local bands play ESP/Schecter/Ibanez etc

but then again that time is coming soon so I guess Fender needs to find what else will stick


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## sezna (Oct 26, 2019)

Adieu said:


> Don't they own Charvel and Jackson?
> 
> There might actually be something fairly close there


Yeah I assume they're speaking for all of FMIC:
EVH, Fender, Jackson, Charvel, Ovation...

and if we're dreaming, maybe we will even see a sig Sunn amp.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 26, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> Let's be real, until boomers are all dead, 90% of Fender's profit margin will be from old guys who walk into a shop and buy a $2000+ guitar off the wall to live out their rockstar dreams despite barely being able to play. (likewise with marshall amps despite them barely making anything worth playing in 30+ years) There's a reason the walls at guitar stores are lined with Fenders and Gibsons even though all the guys who hang out there or play in local bands play ESP/Schecter/Ibanez etc
> 
> but then again that time is coming soon so I guess Fender needs to find what else will stick



The expensive stuff has higher individual margins, but in turn are far more expensive to make and even with like 10 builders now, output is low. 

The MIM stuff has been FMIC's meal ticket for decades now. They just push so many out for next to nothing that even with smaller unit prices they make more money for them. 

The "Gen X"ers and forward know what a better deal the cheaper lines are.


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## possumkiller (Oct 26, 2019)

Yeap. The Mexican models are usually my favourites.


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## Evil Chuck (Oct 27, 2019)

Fender is simply riding the wave of the current social justice atmosphere in search of higher profits and they only care about "empowering" females because they want them to buy more guitars. Corporations are only compassionate insofar as it advances their one and only true motive, money.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 27, 2019)

Evil Chuck said:


> Fender is simply riding the wave of the current social justice atmosphere in search of higher profits and they only care about "empowering" females because they want them to buy more guitars. Corporations are only compassionate insofar as it advances their one and only true motive, money.



oh shit you figured out the secret of the universe.


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## Señor Voorhees (Oct 27, 2019)

If the byproduct of pretending to give a fuck is the removal of archaic stigmas, then pretend to care all you want. 

It doesn't really effect my opinion of fender one way or another, but I kind of hold fender in reasonably high regard anyway.


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## pfizer (Oct 27, 2019)

Pretty smart marketing move. I like that the way they worded it -- _signature guitars for female artists, _rather than "guitars for women". 

I remember really really wanting a PRS Orianthi Signature when it was announced, so hopefully other companies can join in on the action as well. Strandberg already has a Sarah Longfield sig. Maybe Ibanez could release an Yvette Young Talman with those sparkle finishes, that'd be pretty sick. I already mentioned PRS so maybe they can release a Kanami Tohno (guitarist from Band Maid) sig model, since she plays PRS Custom 24s pretty exclusively these days.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 27, 2019)

pfizer said:


> Pretty smart marketing move. I like that the way they worded it -- _signature guitars for female artists, _rather than "guitars for women".
> 
> I remember really really wanting a PRS Orianthi Signature when it was announced, so hopefully other companies can join in on the action as well. Strandberg already has a Sarah Longfield sig. Maybe Ibanez could release an Yvette Young Talman with those sparkle finishes, that'd be pretty sick. I already mentioned PRS so maybe they can release a Kanami Tohno (guitarist from Band Maid) sig model, since she plays PRS Custom 24s pretty exclusively these days.



Yeah, Yvette's Ibbys are fucking stellar!


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## Señor Voorhees (Oct 27, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, Yvette's Ibbys are fucking stellar!




I vaguely mentioned these earlier. If ever there were a sig guitar I needed, these would be the ones. Either one, or both, please.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 27, 2019)

Señor Voorhees said:


> I vaguely mentioned these earlier. If ever there were a sig guitar I needed, these would be the ones. Either one, or both, please.



Now that the Talmans are gone, it would be great to release these.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Oct 27, 2019)

Yes yes yes, Ibanez needs to make Yvette a production sig Talman right away. Really dig that green sparkle.


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## TedEH (Oct 29, 2019)

Ever have one of those moments where spotify is on shuffle, you hear something you don't recognize, but it's pretty great? So you go look at who the artist is: Nili Brosh. You know who should have a signature instrument? Nili Brosh deserves a signature instrument.


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## Albake21 (Oct 29, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Ever have one of those moments where spotify is on shuffle, you hear something you don't recognize, but it's pretty great? So you go look at who the artist is: Nili Brosh. You know who should have a signature instrument? Nili Brosh deserves a signature instrument.


Eh... maybe I just haven't heard enough of her stuff, but everything I've heard is pretty run of the mill instrumental. Not a bad player, but nothing special or unique.


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## TedEH (Oct 29, 2019)

^ Some of the material, I think I'd agree. Some of it is great though. Tons of "passable" songs, but some hits mixed in.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Oct 29, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Ever have one of those moments where spotify is on shuffle, you hear something you don't recognize, but it's pretty great? So you go look at who the artist is: Nili Brosh. You know who should have a signature instrument? Nili Brosh deserves a signature instrument.



Hmm, since Nili (usually) plays 7's, I wonder if that would be the first female-sig 7-string guitar??? If so, that would be super cool.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 29, 2019)

Ibanez is a dinosaur in that regard, unfortunately.


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## AltecGreen (Nov 13, 2019)

That didn’t take long. 

Fender just announced a signature guitar and bass for Suu and Ainyan of J-pop band Silent Siren.


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## technomancer (Nov 13, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Ever have one of those moments where spotify is on shuffle, you hear something you don't recognize, but it's pretty great? So you go look at who the artist is: Nili Brosh. You know who should have a signature instrument? Nili Brosh deserves a signature instrument.



Her phrasing and sense of melody is exceptional. She sort of reminds me of Satch in that aspect. Plus, she's touring as part of Dethklok and it doesn't get more metal than that


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## TedEH (Nov 14, 2019)

technomancer said:


> she's touring as part of Dethklok


I had no idea. That's cool.


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## diagrammatiks (Nov 14, 2019)

AltecGreen said:


> That didn’t take long.
> 
> Fender just announced a signature guitar and bass for Suu and Ainyan of J-pop band Silent Siren.



I want all of these awesome teles. This and the scandal one.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Nov 14, 2019)

Those Scandal sigs are awesome.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 14, 2019)

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/fe...r-SX735FbWCSNP392MO-sLFmO8BW09x0iQma6_VZQNMbg


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## TedEH (Nov 14, 2019)

Pickup setup seems cool. Colours are cool. Not a fan of painted on f-holes though.


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## nyxzz (Nov 14, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://www.guitarworld.com/news/fe...r-SX735FbWCSNP392MO-sLFmO8BW09x0iQma6_VZQNMbg



That Tele has me in trouble


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 14, 2019)

nyxzz said:


> That Tele has me in trouble


Yup.
It's the perfect kind of gaudy.


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## ImNotAhab (Nov 14, 2019)

nyxzz said:


> That Tele has me in trouble



Same but for that bass. Seafoam green always gets me gassing.


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## Kaura (Nov 15, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://www.guitarworld.com/news/fe...r-SX735FbWCSNP392MO-sLFmO8BW09x0iQma6_VZQNMbg



I'm starting to feel like a Japanese woman trapped inside a caucasian man's body since they seem to understand my quirky tastes in guitars perfectly.

Nevertheless, those things are gorgeous.


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## c7spheres (Nov 15, 2019)

Adieu said:


> Because females are the MAJORITY on the planet. AND can be used to sex-appeal the majority of the male minority, too, if suitably attractive candidates are selected.
> 
> Big bu$ine$$ opportunity, wide appeal.
> 
> As to a push to "include" (intentionally) "gender neutral" artists, lol. All that'll get you is a 3way faeces-slinging match between the queer hooray, queer "this is a farce like Marilyn Manson or Twisted Sister", and conservative activist camps....AND NOOOO MOOOOONEEEEY.



I for one would much rather look at a hot female playing guitar than a hot or ugly guy. If I like the music I will listen/watch either way, but a hot girl is always a bonus. Same goes for wrestling, news anchors/ weather girls etc. I would just rather look at a hot girl almost every time in almost any situation. The problem I have is when they get all hot and sexy and then bitch and moan about how they're being objectified. Really? You know exactly what you're doing girl. If you want to be treated more like a guy then dress more like a guy and stop showing your chest off etc. Even when hot women dress like dudes or conservatively and try to not show off they are still objectified, which is the nature of man, and a but of a problem but at least when I see that I take them more seriously and show a lot more respect and thinking about how good they look is just a passing thought rather than the subject of discussion. That's why I really dug Drain STH back in the day. They dressed down in normal jeans and t shirts and purposely didn't make it a we're hot females playing metal music. They couldn't really escape it anyways, ultimately, because they were beatiful looking people, but they had respect from their fans and only the initial interviews and media really made any big deal out of it. They weren't playing that card at all, had talent and made a couple great albums. Bands like Kittie, on the other hand, also didn't paly that card, got some attention about being girls, but not as big a deal was made about it because truthfully people just didn't think they were that good looking, physically. I think they might have actually had a bit more success on top of it too. It's sad that the media will do that to talented musicians not playing that female card, but it's nice when they can still get past it and people eventually get over it like in their cases. Sorry for long post and 90's throwback examples, it just came to my head so I typed it out.


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## Solodini (Nov 15, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> I for one would much rather look at a hot female playing guitar than a hot or ugly guy. If I like the music I will listen/watch either way, but a hot girl is always a bonus. Same goes for wrestling, news anchors/ weather girls etc. I would just rather look at a hot girl almost every time in almost any situation. The problem I have is when they get all hot and sexy and then bitch and moan about how they're being objectified. Really? You know exactly what you're doing girl. If you want to be treated more like a guy then dress more like a guy and stop showing your chest off etc. Even when hot women dress like dudes or conservatively and try to not show off they are still objectified, which is the nature of man, and a but of a problem but at least when I see that I take them more seriously and show a lot more respect and thinking about how good they look is just a passing thought rather than the subject of discussion. That's why I really dug Drain STH back in the day. They dressed down in normal jeans and t shirts and purposely didn't make it a we're hot females playing metal music. They couldn't really escape it anyways, ultimately, because they were beatiful looking people, but they had respect from their fans and only the initial interviews and media really made any big deal out of it. They weren't playing that card at all, had talent and made a couple great albums. Bands like Kittie, on the other hand, also didn't paly that card, got some attention about being girls, but not as big a deal was made about it because truthfully people just didn't think they were that good looking, physically. I think they might have actually had a bit more success on top of it too. It's sad that the media will do that to talented musicians not playing that female card, but it's nice when they can still get past it and people eventually get over it like in their cases. Sorry for long post and 90's throwback examples, it just came to my head so I typed it out.



What makes it your place to decide what the threshold should be of women being respected? Anyone should be respected while dressing however they want, provided that their choices are not an attack on the wellbeing and rights of others.


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## fps (Nov 15, 2019)

Much as Yorkie realised their "It's not for girls" ad campaign was alienating its target market, guitar companies are finally realising women might want to play the guitar and that it might double their customer base. Great!


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Nov 15, 2019)

I am late to this by a few pages. I am glad more female representation is happening but this is just like the push from major companies like to Marvel/Disney. Let me explain. They are trying to insert more diversity into the signature market as Marvel did with adding more female/gay/non binary/black characters into their universe. Look at the Eternals. Half the team is gender/race swapped. 

Diversity is good but diversity needs to be natural. Why is it that they went straight to a J pop group for signatures? Think of all the American musicians they could have used. Why aren't they going out and nabbing some of these coutnry female singers? Why didn't they go out and try to get Taylor Swift.

As a marketing ploy, it is very intelligent. On the other hand, it does feel super forced. What's next? "Fender is going to start releasing signature guitars for trans and non-binary. Oh and black people!"


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## technomancer (Nov 15, 2019)

I sort of like that tele... though I would like it better without then painted F hole.



r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I am late to this by a few pages. I am glad more female representation is happening but this is just like the push from major companies like to Marvel/Disney. Let me explain. They are trying to insert more diversity into the signature market as Marvel did with adding more female/gay/non binary/black characters into their universe. Look at the Eternals. Half the team is gender/race swapped.
> 
> Diversity is good but diversity needs to be natural. Why is it that they went straight to a J pop group for signatures? Think of all the American musicians they could have used. Why aren't they going out and nabbing some of these coutnry female singers? Why didn't they go out and try to get Taylor Swift.
> 
> As a marketing ploy, it is very intelligent. On the other hand, it does feel super forced. What's next? "Fender is going to start releasing signature guitars for trans and non-binary. Oh and black people!"



Given the only place I've seen playing this up is guitar world is it really a Fender marketing thing making a big deal of it, or do they just have more female artist sigs set up and guitar world is trying to get people to read articles? I'm not seeing an artificial "LOOK WOMEN!!!!" push on the Fender website for example or anything touting more female artist sigs as a thing. I've also been lazy and not read 90% of the thread so take my statement with a grain of salt


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## diagrammatiks (Nov 15, 2019)

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I am late to this by a few pages. I am glad more female representation is happening but this is just like the push from major companies like to Marvel/Disney. Let me explain. They are trying to insert more diversity into the signature market as Marvel did with adding more female/gay/non binary/black characters into their universe. Look at the Eternals. Half the team is gender/race swapped.
> 
> Diversity is good but diversity needs to be natural. Why is it that they went straight to a J pop group for signatures? Think of all the American musicians they could have used. Why aren't they going out and nabbing some of these coutnry female singers? Why didn't they go out and try to get Taylor Swift.
> 
> As a marketing ploy, it is very intelligent. On the other hand, it does feel super forced. What's next? "Fender is going to start releasing signature guitars for trans and non-binary. Oh and black people!"



Well..they didn't really. Fender has always been giving sigs to Japanese female fronted bands. Whoever is reporting on those sigs jumped the gun significantly...and they don't really understand that Fender Japan and Fender are very different entities. 

The actual sigs from this initiative aren't even out yet.


Also...the eternals are fictional. they can be played and depicted however they want.


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## TedEH (Nov 15, 2019)

Don't get me wrong, I also tend to be on the side of not wanting to be beaten over the head with forced diversity - but this is all definitely, at best, making mountains of molehills. Guitars are for everyone. Sigs should also be for everyone. Marketing is gonna jump on the diversity thing because of course it is.


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## Thaeon (Nov 15, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://www.guitarworld.com/news/fe...r-SX735FbWCSNP392MO-sLFmO8BW09x0iQma6_VZQNMbg



Apparently, I'm now hot for Tele.


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## c7spheres (Nov 15, 2019)

Solodini said:


> What makes it your place to decide what the threshold should be of women being respected? Anyone should be respected while dressing however they want, provided that their choices are not an attack on the wellbeing and rights of others.


 I'm not making it my place nor did I state what the threshold of women being respected should be. I'm stating the fact that when women turn themselves into sex objects they will be objectified and shouldn't bitch about it when they are. I also stated that's it's unfortunate when they go out of their way to not be objectified yet still are anyways.


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## nyxzz (Nov 15, 2019)

guys can we just focus on the solid white HS telecaster here fellas


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## stevexc (Nov 15, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> I for one would much rather look at a hot female playing guitar than a hot or ugly guy. If I like the music I will listen/watch either way, but a hot girl is always a bonus. Same goes for wrestling, news anchors/ weather girls etc. I would just rather look at a hot girl almost every time in almost any situation. The problem I have is when they get all hot and sexy and then bitch and moan about how they're being objectified. Really? You know exactly what you're doing girl. If you want to be treated more like a guy then dress more like a guy and stop showing your chest off etc. Even when hot women dress like dudes or conservatively and try to not show off they are still objectified, which is the nature of man, and a but of a problem but at least when I see that I take them more seriously and show a lot more respect and thinking about how good they look is just a passing thought rather than the subject of discussion. That's why I really dug Drain STH back in the day. They dressed down in normal jeans and t shirts and purposely didn't make it a we're hot females playing metal music. They couldn't really escape it anyways, ultimately, because they were beatiful looking people, but they had respect from their fans and only the initial interviews and media really made any big deal out of it. They weren't playing that card at all, had talent and made a couple great albums. Bands like Kittie, on the other hand, also didn't paly that card, got some attention about being girls, but not as big a deal was made about it because truthfully people just didn't think they were that good looking, physically. I think they might have actually had a bit more success on top of it too. It's sad that the media will do that to talented musicians not playing that female card, but it's nice when they can still get past it and people eventually get over it like in their cases. Sorry for long post and 90's throwback examples, it just came to my head so I typed it out.




Ah yes, the classic "but look at what she was wearing, she deserved it!" argument. Always a fun one to see. Always wrong, but fun to see people try to defend.


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## Indigenous (Nov 15, 2019)

stevexc said:


> Ah yes, the classic "but look at what she was wearing, she deserved it!" argument. Always a fun one to see. Always wrong, but fun to see people try to defend.



Yeah, that was kind of pathetic to read.


----------



## c7spheres (Nov 15, 2019)

stevexc said:


> Ah yes, the classic "but look at what she was wearing, she deserved it!" argument. Always a good one to see. Always wrong, but fun to see people try to defend.


- I don't think you even read my post. 
It's not wrong. It's not an argument I'm making, but why is it wrong? I'm just saying it because it's true. Even if it has nothing to do with women and it's that half naked crazy guy roller blading down the street with his junk hanging out that's in every town and he's yelling at people, then I'm gonna look and say what I want and how I feel about it, if I want.
- All I'm saying is that it comes with the territory and I won't behave how someone tells me to based on how they dress. If a girl dresses like a skank and someone calls her a skank then she is not a victim, she's stupid if she didn't expect it, or made a bad choice. She know's exactly what's going on and wants the attention and drama and enjoys the attention by playing victim. As long as that attention is on her, it's good fo business. If people think that when a girl comes out playing a guitar with her chest and ass hanging out and people talk about how she looks instead of only her guitar ability that she's a victim, then they and the girl are wrong. If those people or girl seriously expect everyone to shut their mouth and not comment about looks other than a quick compliment and move straight on to whatever they want to talk about like their guitar aiblity then they are just ignorant. People have know better for decades about this. They know exactly what they're doing by stirring convtoversy. It's an old trick at this point in history and people keep doing it because it's good for business and attention whoring. I'm not talking about non-attention-whoring people, btw.
- By the way I keep saying that it's unfortunate for women who don't draw attention to themselves but still get this flak, but that part keeps getting ignored.


----------



## narad (Nov 15, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> It's not wrong. It's not an argument I'm making, but why is it wrong? I'm just saying it because it's true. Even if it has nothing to do with women and it's that half naked crazy guy roller blading down the street with his junk hanging out that's in every town and he's yelling at people, then I'm gonna look and say what I want and how I feel about it, if I want.
> - All I'm saying is that it comes with the territory and I won't behave how someone tells me to based on how they dress. If a girl dresses like a skank and someone calls her a skank then she is not a victim, she's stupid if she didn't expect it, or made a bad choice. She know's exactly what's going on and wants the attention and drama and enjoys the attention by playing victim. As long as that attention is on her, it's good fo business. If people think that when a girl comes out playing a guitar with her chest and ass hanging out and people talk about how she looks instead of only her guitar ability that she's a victim, then they and the girl are wrong. If those people or girl seriously expect everyone to shut their mouth and not comment about looks other than a quick compliment and move straight on to whatever they want to talk about like their guitar aiblity then they are just ignorant. People have know better for decades about this. They know exactly what they're doing by stirring convtoversy. It's an old trick at this point in history and people keep doing it because it's good for business and attention whoring. I'm not talking about non-attention-whoring people, btw.
> - By the way I keep saying that it's unfortunate for women who don't draw attention to themselves but still get this flak, but that part keeps getting ignored.



Thank you for providing me with a magical time portal so I could experience what life and thinking was like 50 years ago.


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## c7spheres (Nov 15, 2019)

narad said:


> Thank you for providing me with a magical time portal so I could experience what life and thinking was like 50 years ago.


 I get where everyone is coming from. I do. Statments like Solodini made that are not what I'm saying are unfounded. I'm not making it my place to create a threshold and I agree with him when he says that anyone should be respected while dressing however they want, provided that their choices are not an attack on the wellbeing and rights of others. The thing is that dressing certain ways are an attack on some others emotionally, sexually etc. and both dressing that way and the comments that people make about it go hand in hand. The idea of an "I should be able to shove it in your face and you're the problem if you say anything I don't like." attitude is ridiculous to me.


----------



## narad (Nov 15, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> I get where everyone is coming from. I do. Statments like Solodini made that are not what I'm saying are unfounded. I'm not making it my place to create a threshold and I agree with him when he says that anyone should be respected while dressing however they want, provided that their choices are not an attack on the wellbeing and rights of others. The thing is that dressing certain ways are an attack on some others emotionally, sexually etc. and both dressing that way and the comments that people make about it go hand in hand. The idea of an "I should be able to shove it in your face and you're the problem if you say anything I don't like." attitude is ridiculous to me.



I've never heard of wearing alluring clothing as a "sexual attack" before. You're describing a person's appearance as a possible source of "attack", describing their intent to target you, and you saying something about their appearance is a "reaction" that is justified or provoked. It's the opposite. 

I mean like.. what, if I put a freshly-baked pie on the window sill, is that a flavor attack to those walking by? And if anyone eats it, well, I had it coming? That's basically your logic here as far as I'm concerned.


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## c7spheres (Nov 15, 2019)

narad said:


> I've never heard of wearing alluring clothing as a "sexual attack" before. You're describing a person's appearance as a possible source of "attack", but treating anyone saying something about it as a "reaction" that is justified or provoked. It's the opposite.
> 
> I mean like.. what, if I put a freshly-baked pie on the window sill, is that a flavor attack to those walking by? And if anyone eats it, well, I had it coming? That's basically your logic here as far as I'm concerned.


 I see what you're saying. My point is that people doing it know exactly what they're doing. If I wear nothing but a sock and g-string in public or on stage, and have a bunch of track marks going up my arm, I know it's for attention and would be faking it if I was "upset" that people were objectifying me as a freak or having problems of some sort. That's all I'm saying is that most people objectifiying themselves know they are doing it. I don't justify it when people that aren't doing it for the attention are getting it when they are not wanting it. Otherwise, any attention at all would be considered wrong.


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## Science_Penguin (Nov 16, 2019)

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I am late to this by a few pages. I am glad more female representation is happening but this is just like the push from major companies like to Marvel/Disney. Let me explain. They are trying to insert more diversity into the signature market as Marvel did with adding more female/gay/non binary/black characters into their universe. Look at the Eternals. Half the team is gender/race swapped.
> 
> Diversity is good but diversity needs to be natural. Why is it that they went straight to a J pop group for signatures? Think of all the American musicians they could have used. Why aren't they going out and nabbing some of these coutnry female singers? Why didn't they go out and try to get Taylor Swift.
> 
> As a marketing ploy, it is very intelligent. On the other hand, it does feel super forced. What's next? "Fender is going to start releasing signature guitars for trans and non-binary. Oh and black people!"



In what way would it not feel forced? If the idea is to make a clear and concerted effort to diversify, I'd say the way it's going is pretty natural.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Nov 16, 2019)

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> I am late to this by a few pages. I am glad more female representation is happening but this is just like the push from major companies like to Marvel/Disney. Let me explain. They are trying to insert more diversity into the signature market as Marvel did with adding more female/gay/non binary/black characters into their universe. Look at the Eternals. Half the team is gender/race swapped.
> 
> Diversity is good but diversity needs to be natural. Why is it that they went straight to a J pop group for signatures? Think of all the American musicians they could have used. Why aren't they going out and nabbing some of these coutnry female singers? Why didn't they go out and try to get Taylor Swift.
> 
> As a marketing ploy, it is very intelligent. On the other hand, it does feel super forced. What's next? "Fender is going to start releasing signature guitars for trans and non-binary. Oh and black people!"



Diversity is natural. Half the population is female. Over a third of the country isn't white. 

What makes it feel "forced" is the fact that for decades diversity was *unnaturally* suppressed and we're only recently starting to fix this.


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## danpintos (Nov 16, 2019)

I think, on some level, we're missing the point here. We all love guitar, that's why we're posting on a forum about them. Regardless of your views, does it really matter which people Fender makes signatures for as long as they're making a point to be progressive?

We should be happy that more guitars are coming. Again. *More* guitars to gas for! Fender is taking a step in the right direction. I'll be interested to see what the artists come up with. I'm assuming everyone has seen Nita Strauss's Ibanez signature - that guitar is beautiful! Clearly women have some pretty damn good taste in design. I'm looking forward to seeing what gets designed.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Diversity is natural. Half the population is female. Over a third of the country isn't white.
> 
> What makes it feel "forced" is the fact that for decades diversity was *unnaturally* suppressed and we're only recently starting to fix this.



This exactly. Representation is important. You know what makes me happy? The thought that in the future, a little girl, who maybe has a bad voice but loves music, can look at icons like Nita Strauss, Yvette Young, etc, and feel like she can do it too. Maybe she gets one of their signatures and it inspires her, and she grows up to make great music too.

So what if Fender starts releasing guitars for trans and non-binary? That's a *good* thing. From the outside looking in, rock bands seem pretty exclusionary. 99% of bands are all guys. What do you think that makes women, trans, and non-binary people feel? Like they can't do it too. They can do it too, and that starts with representation. Think of all the good songs that have never come out because someone felt like they couldn't hang with the culture of musicians. That's something that has to change.


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## couverdure (Nov 16, 2019)

The talks in this thread about trans people makes me think that Laura Jane Grace should have a Rickenbacker sig.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Nov 16, 2019)

Im not bothered who gets a signature model as long as they’re a great guitarist. But similarly, I would hate to go back to the late 90s early 00s model where anyone who the companies thought might shift a couple more SKUs got a signature model by taking a standard production line model and adding inlays from guitar x and the headstock from guitar y, whether they were actually a ‘guitar hero’ or not.

It’s not the way the world works, but I personally feel signature models should work in a purely meritocratic way.

With regards to the whole point about people ‘dressing for attention’, I am not saying anyone deserves attacking, please don’t think that, but when we live in a society, there are certain societal norms that everyone should abide by even if they’re not legally obliged to. Should people who dress in full goth paraphernalia expect to be treated with the same level of respect as someone who wears a suit and tie? I’m not sure, because by deviating from societal norms they’re already disrespecting a living society that predates them by decades and that maintains that respect must be earned and conforming is one way of earning that respect. In essence, by not conforming, the cycle of disrespect has already started.

We can change that perception slowly, but not overnight.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 16, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Im not bothered who gets a signature model as long as they’re a great guitarist. But similarly, I would hate to go back to the late 90s early 00s model where anyone who the companies thought might shift a couple more SKUs got a signature model by taking a standard production line model and adding inlays from guitar x and the headstock from guitar y, whether they were actually a ‘guitar hero’ or not.
> 
> It’s not the way the world works, but I personally feel signature models should work in a purely meritocratic way.
> 
> ...



Physical evidence of signature model guitars date all the way back to 1200 AD, and there is significant evidence that it even predates that by a few centuries.

They were given to local court musicians for free on the condition that they would serve as sales people for the instrument maker. 

The concept of signature model guitars going to only the "best" as far as technicality goes has never been a consideration, the notion only, again, being used in a commercial capacity. 

There are lucrative endorsement deals that don't involve signature gear, so it's not like it's a go/no-go in a financial sense for musicians. 

While music holds a special place in our consciousness, it is an industry. The idea is to make money. If that meant favoring only great players, that's how it would be.

Since skill at guitar playing isn't something that can be perfectly quantifiable, there's really no system of merit that can be fairly assigned.


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## Spicypickles (Nov 16, 2019)

So....the all white tele......

Is it the funky painted fretboard type? Or something synthetic?


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## BuckarooBanzai (Nov 16, 2019)

R34CH said:


> A Lindsay Ell signature would be killer...
> 
> I've only heard of her because she showed up on a Rig Rundown but it seemed like she was a country artist...?
> 
> View attachment 73911



I'd buy the SHIT out of that Strat... and I have a cock and balls. Everybody wins!


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 16, 2019)

Spicypickles said:


> So....the all white tele......
> 
> Is it the funky painted fretboard type? Or something synthetic?



Probably just finished. 

Maple fretboards are finished, just with only a clear coat. It's almost the same process doing a color first.


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## Andromalia (Nov 17, 2019)

The main issue women will have in rock music is bypassing the "boobs sell" scenario, where the frontman value is proportional to her position on a "looks good" scale. (Mainly thinking of all those dutch bands with rotating singers we call "boobs bands" in France).
I'll believe the industry is taking a stand when I see normal-looking women in bands. Using a provocative poster girl isn't representation, it's catering to male teenagers.


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## couverdure (Nov 18, 2019)

Andromalia said:


> The main issue women will have in rock music is bypassing the "boobs sell" scenario, where the frontman value is proportional to her position on a "looks good" scale. (Mainly thinking of all those dutch bands with rotating singers we call "boobs bands" in France).
> I'll believe the industry is taking a stand when I see normal-looking women in bands. Using a provocative poster girl isn't representation, it's catering to male teenagers.


Have you ever seen any female-fronted bands outside of the hard rock circle? A lot of them don't have the "fierce masculine/model-esque" aesthetic that seem to be common in many female hard rock/metal musicians. Even Hayley Williams, who was the poster girl for that kind of frontwomen a decade ago, stopped rocking the bright orange hair she was known for, although they did undergo a massive sound change when she did it.


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## Solodini (Nov 18, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> I see what you're saying. My point is that people doing it know exactly what they're doing. If I wear nothing but a sock and g-string in public or on stage, and have a bunch of track marks going up my arm, I know it's for attention and would be faking it if I was "upset" that people were objectifying me as a freak or having problems of some sort. That's all I'm saying is that most people objectifiying themselves know they are doing it. I don't justify it when people that aren't doing it for the attention are getting it when they are not wanting it. Otherwise, any attention at all would be considered wrong.



The human body isn't inherently sexual. We pose a double standard when men can run around shirtless onstage and it's just seen as normal because it gets hot up there, but someone else doing it is seen as objectifying or sexualising themselves. While people will personally find individuals attractive, that's on the beholder. People are capable of sexualising the most non-sexual things. Rule 34 of the internet, and all that.
Do you watch documentaries about cultures in hot countries where everyone goes around shirtless and think that's sexual, that it's docupornography?

The fact that you've talked about someone dressing "like a skank" is you telling us that you see a certain style of clothing as diminishing the person's value and that's not respectable. Unless you have some reason that "skank" isn't actually being used as a derogatory term. You've said that " If you want to be treated more like a guy then dress more like a guy" as though the only way to be respected like men is to be more like a man, rather than that women should be respected in their own right. But as I said before, plenty of men go around onstage shirtless and while some people may find them attractive, that's generally not the primary focus. Especially if they're someone who's not considered to be conventionally attractive. I'm sure if the female artists in question were doing as you say and dressing "like a man" often does for performing then your other logic would state that they're sexing it up.

Obviously there are instances in which exposing one's body is unwelcome and is indecency, but choosing to engage with someone's art and performance when you know how they present themselves isn't a case of this. Practicality and realistic circumstances of comfort generally wouldn't fall into this either, I wouldn't say. And things can be practical and serve your aesthetic, too. Gym clothes are practical, doesn't mean they can't make you feel like you look nice, too. That doesn't mean others should leer and creep on you. A brief look at someone and acknowledging to yourself is one thing but staring and making your thoughts someone else's problem, making them feel unsafe is not justified.



_MonSTeR_ said:


> Im not bothered who gets a signature model as long as they’re a great guitarist. But similarly, I would hate to go back to the late 90s early 00s model where anyone who the companies thought might shift a couple more SKUs got a signature model by taking a standard production line model and adding inlays from guitar x and the headstock from guitar y, whether they were actually a ‘guitar hero’ or not.
> 
> It’s not the way the world works, but I personally feel signature models should work in a purely meritocratic way.
> 
> ...



This view that I've seen cropping up through the thread, that being an athlete on the instrument is the main mark of merit and that those who don't shred or display some technical ideal shouldn't have a signature model is so bizarre. Music isn't a sport. It's an art. Sure, mechanics, theory, science all contribute but they contribute to achieving our individual artistic ideals. If someone finds that some piece of equipment helps them to reach that, whether by structural advancement or by contributing to the aesthetics of the performance, and they want to share that with others, how is that less deserving of a company's support than a guitar with a clear or metallic body, or an inch and a half longer scale which is attributed to someone who plays faster? 
Should clothing designers only get to put out something which matches their aesthetics if it has the approval of a powerlifter, dancer or sprinter? Should Stuart Semple only release pigments if they're valuable to people who paint bridges and other civil structures? 

Do you think it's right to respect someone more because they wear a suit and tie rather than a black PVC trenchcoat? What about fatigues and military boots; are they more or less worthy of respect than a suit? Does that respect vary depending on whether they're actively in service to the military? 

Why shouldn't it be changed overnight? Why should a certain demographic be expected to continue to be maligned for the way they look just because it's different? Should people who immigrate abandon all of their previous home's cultural aesthetics if they want to be respected? What makes that a valid expectation, rather than expecting to treat everyone with respect until they act in a way which causes harm to others? 

Immigrants deserve respect and support, prostitutes deserve respect and support, single parents deserve respect and support, mentally ill people deserve respect and support, addicts deserve respect and support, poor people deserve respect and support. Fuck abusers.


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## c7spheres (Nov 18, 2019)

Solodini said:


> The human body isn't inherently sexual. We pose a double standard when men can run around shirtless onstage and it's just seen as normal because it gets hot up there, but someone else doing it is seen as objectifying or sexualising themselves. While people will personally find individuals attractive, that's on the beholder. People are capable of sexualising the most non-sexual things. Rule 34 of the internet, and all that.
> Do you watch documentaries about cultures in hot countries where everyone goes around shirtless and think that's sexual, that it's docupornography?
> 
> The fact that you've talked about someone dressing "like a skank" is you telling us that you see a certain style of clothing as diminishing the person's value and that's not respectable. Unless you have some reason that "skank" isn't actually being used as a derogatory term. You've said that " If you want to be treated more like a guy then dress more like a guy" as though the only way to be respected like men is to be more like a man, rather than that women should be respected in their own right. But as I said before, plenty of men go around onstage shirtless and while some people may find them attractive, that's generally not the primary focus. Especially if they're someone who's not considered to be conventionally attractive. I'm sure if the female artists in question were doing as you say and dressing "like a man" often does for performing then your other logic would state that they're sexing it up.
> ...


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 18, 2019)

less social commentary, more guitar porn.
Haruna from SCANDAL's sig guitar.




or her even better silver sparkle tele:





Mami from Scandal got a pretty sick sig too:


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## Mathemagician (Nov 18, 2019)

Idk, a lot of the guys crying “forced diversity” seem pretty low-testosterone bro.


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## Señor Voorhees (Nov 18, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> less social commentary, more guitar porn.
> Haruna from SCANDAL's sig guitar.
> 
> 
> ...


Yes to all 3. I really want that gold/white tele and that Jazzmaster. I'd like the silver one more, but skulls is cheezy imo. Still cool, but not 100% my cup of tea.


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## Opion (Nov 18, 2019)

I had a bad feeling when I saw this thread was at 9 pages and sure enough - wall of text replies on every page...

/sigh

Maybe I’m preaching to the choir, but why - seriously - does it have to warrant such a huge discussion? Is it because of the appearance of it being a cash-grab by Fender? Actually being serious here, some of these models are really cool and unique. I dunno. Not that I’m gonna buy one, but some people will, and us guitar players love options, so I see this working out well for Fender (except for the extended range crowd hehe)


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## iamaom (Nov 18, 2019)

Opion said:


> and us guitar players love options


I'd prefer options that didn't come pre-infected with friggin' COOTIES.


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## c7spheres (Nov 18, 2019)

Opion said:


> . ..... Is it because of the appearance of it being a cash-grab by Fender?



Probably. If you just add who you want then it's no big deal and doesn't get the attention. When you make it a point to let the world know that you're diversifying the artist roster, then it's to increase talk, discussion, sales etc. What it's really about isn't so much to diversify but to make money, using the guise of diversity as a selling point. It's a marketing campaign. If the misogynistic or women objectifiying trend of the past ever comes back around then you can bet Fender will be doing that again too. Almost nobody has any real convictions. People and companies almost always follow the money or social acceptance path's of least resistance. Coat-tail gravy-train riders. After all this "new acceptance" thing goes to far then people will eventually wake up and see the hypocrisy that by puposely forcing this agenda onto people by choosing women or minorities over say white males (when not desereved) that they are exactly the same people that they claim to hate. By forcing diversity there is ultimately more deserving people being disenfranchised. This is a diservice to everyone. I say whomever deserves a position most should have it wether it be a male, female or minority. If the entire roster or company ends up being an overwhelming majority of one type of person so be it. I'm not at all saying any of these artists don'tt deserrve it. I believe they do. I'm all for trying to diversify things, but not forcing it for the sake of it if the best choises ultimately don't look like a diverse group. Can we just talk about guitars please?


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 18, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> By forcing diversity there is ultimately more deserving people being disenfranchised.



Find me one (1) artist not getting a signature guitar specifically because they are adding more female artists to the roster. One. 

It's not like they add a set number of new signature guitars every year and now men will have to be pushed to the back of the bus...I mean line. 

You're just looking for a negative in what is actually a positive announcement. They're not kicking anyone off the signature roster they're adding people. They're making more guitars, not fewer. 

_“To the privileged, equality feels like oppression.”_

This just gives people the willys because they fear that maybe they'll be treated how poorly they perceive, even subconsciously, how others are treated. 

This thread started about guitars until fragile men got scared and defensive. It's alright guys, we'll be fine. Promise.


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## spudmunkey (Nov 18, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Find me one (1) artist not getting a signature guitar specifically because they are adding more female artists to the roster. One.



It's the only reason that explains why i don't have one. That must be it.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Nov 18, 2019)

Someone raised a point as to how one determines whether an artist is deserving of a signature model as opposed to a different sort of endorsement deal. Perhaps a good, but retrospective gauge is whether the signature models are still in production in 3 or 4 years’ time, whether they’ve faded away, or whether they’ve multiplied in an EBMM Petrucci fashion.


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## c7spheres (Nov 18, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Find me one (1) artist not getting a signature guitar specifically because they are adding more female artists to the roster. One.



This was more of a generalization I was talking about with diversity in general. In my own experience I've been denied several promotions and also not selected for jobs specifically because I'm a white male. I know for a fact I was more deserving because I trained the very people who got the jobs and could prove through performace records I was a consistant higher performer and not to mentioned had years more of experience than these people. It happened several times. After arbitration and basically forcing the company to comply to thier mistake, I was then dismissed for other made up reasons, later to findout the previous people were just hired back into that position. This is the corporate world in my experience. Nepotism is everywhere regardless if you're a white male or a gay minority women. People are almost always the same in these positions and I have yet to ever see anyone in any position of authority or power or with financial extortionary power actually ever act fairly towards those below them. People always use thier influence to thier adavantage regarless of what morals or ethics they claim to have. They're all hypocrits unless it's to thier advantage to not be one. I've never seen an honorable person before in this regard. The only honorable people I've ever known are either dead or live in poverty. Sorry for my bleak world view, but I'm being honest with my experiences.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 18, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Someone raised a point as to how one determines whether an artist is deserving of a signature model as opposed to a different sort of endorsement deal. Perhaps a good, but retrospective gauge is whether the signature models are still in production in 3 or 4 years’ time, whether they’ve faded away, or whether they’ve multiplied in an EBMM Petrucci fashion.



I think a lot of that has to do with the guitar itself. For decades, if you wanted a high quality shred/metal guitar with Piezo or a non-FR trem (or both) and especially if you wanted a 7, a JP was just about the only answer without going custom. It entrenched the guitar in the market and even though it was catering to a small niche it pretty much owned that niche, minus a couple random, short-lived Ibanez guitars. 

The company matters too. Look at the Ibanez Noodles models. I think they sell mid-double digits, maybe even 100 a year, but he's been such a loyal artist there's no reason to dump him.


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## spudmunkey (Nov 18, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Someone raised a point as to how one determines whether an artist is deserving of a signature model as opposed to a different sort of endorsement deal. Perhaps a good, but retrospective gauge is whether the signature models are still in production in 3 or 4 years’ time, whether they’ve faded away, or whether they’ve multiplied in an EBMM Petrucci fashion.



Even that's flawed, to me. A flash-in-the-pan artist that has a signature model without any expensive customization, with parts that are avaliable elsewhere (save for maybe a custom finish), is just what a guitar company needs to stay relevant to the "pop" market, and are likely high-profit items that subsidize other things.

Now...for a bespoke body shape, or string count? That's something that you'd definitely only see on someone they are planning on supporting/getting support from for a while.

Keep in mind that the entire reason to endorse an artist in the first place, before and including giving them a signature model, is to increase the number of eyes on the brand, to increase dollars coming in to the brand.


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## c7spheres (Nov 18, 2019)

What I like about artists like Nita Strauss with Ibanez is that she actually uses her signature guitar as you buy it from the store. I have a lot of respect for that. A lot of other artists don't use the signature guitar you would buy. They have some custom shop version that nobody else can get. Nita Strauss obvisouly looks nice but that's not what you focus on when you see her. You think she can play good, that guitar is awesome, she's rockin, etc. She knows exactly how to do it in my opinion. She knows exactly how to walk that line.


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## technomancer (Nov 18, 2019)

Damn that white Haruna tele is awesome 

Somebody wake me when we get some more actual guitar posts...


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## Given To Fly (Nov 19, 2019)

This was a bad idea at the time and it was not subtle:

http://www.synergyguitars.com/jackson-guitars/Jackson-Guitars-Jenna-Jameson.htm

People like sex and "sex sells" so this should have been a wild success...

What went wrong?


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 19, 2019)

Given To Fly said:


> This was a bad idea at the time and it was not subtle:
> 
> http://www.synergyguitars.com/jackson-guitars/Jackson-Guitars-Jenna-Jameson.htm
> 
> ...



Those came [] out around 2005 right?

Probably would have done better if it wasn't a KVX10 for $1k.

Though I think I remember these being super limited and selling out. You can grab them for like $300 now.


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## c7spheres (Nov 19, 2019)

Given To Fly said:


> This was a bad idea at the time and it was not subtle:
> 
> http://www.synergyguitars.com/jackson-guitars/Jackson-Guitars-Jenna-Jameson.htm
> 
> ...


 The last hoorah of the 80's trying to revive itself. Ad says 2003. I know it's wrong but I still like it. I do like that Rhoads she's got though.


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## Evil Chuck (Nov 19, 2019)

Solodini said:


> prostitutes deserve respect and support


Hell yes, this is the message Fender needs to be sending to girls. Hire this motherfucker NOW!


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 19, 2019)

Evil Chuck said:


> Hell yes, this is the message Fender needs to be sending to girls. Hire this motherfucker NOW!



A real _High T Alpha Male® _would have responded to the whole post in good faith.

Predictable.


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## TedEH (Nov 19, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> In my own experience I've been denied several promotions and also not selected for jobs specifically because I'm a white male.


Don't take this the wrong way, but that post reads to me the same way as "they wouldn't hire me because I was overqualified". I don't know if that is ever the actual reason given, or just some kind of self-preservation thing that people make up to tell others when they bomb an interview.
I've only ever heard that "overqualified" line in cases where someone was way more confident than competent.

I suppose a better way to say it is that I can't help but suspect that this is just your interpretation of events, and others might see it very differently.


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## Albake21 (Nov 19, 2019)

That white and gold tele is awesome! The other two... eh a little cringy looking to me.


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## spudmunkey (Nov 19, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> I've been denied several promotions and also not selected for jobs specifically because I'm a white male. I know for a fact I was more deserving because I trained the very people who got the jobs and could prove through performace records I was a consistant higher performer and not to mentioned had years more of experience than these people.



Not to derail the thread, but...promotions aren't/shouldn't always be dependent on "on paper" performance. Maybe you're a terrific, and valuable trainer (which you clearly are, since you crank out people who get promoted). Maybe they just thought, personality-wise, that these other folks would simply be a better "fit" with the team that's already there, or the client's they'd be interacting with.

I've personally given and not given promotions based on both of those aspects. Neither had to do with skin color, age, or sex/gender.


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## c7spheres (Nov 19, 2019)

TedEH said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but that post reads to me the same way as "they wouldn't hire me because I was overqualified". I don't know if that is ever the actual reason given, or just some kind of self-preservation thing that people make up to tell others when they bomb an interview.
> I've only ever heard that "overqualified" line in cases where someone was way more confident than competent.
> 
> I suppose a better way to say it is that I can't help but suspect that this is just your interpretation of events, and others might see it very differently.






spudmunkey said:


> Not to derail the thread, but...promotions aren't/shouldn't always be dependent on "on paper" performance. Maybe you're a terrific, and valuable trainer (which you clearly are, since you crank out people who get promoted). Maybe they just thought, personality-wise, that these other folks would simply be a better "fit" with the team that's already there, or the client's they'd be interacting with.
> 
> I've personally given and not given promotions based on both of those aspects. Neither had to do with skin color, age, or sex/gender.



- I understand what you guys are saying, and no offense taken. I appreciate everyone's input and learn from everyone. I Totally get what you're saying. 
- In my reality everywhere I've worked (at least in the corporate world), the promotions and good paying positions have all been given to freinds and family members or minorities and women (usually freinds). I even trained a few (at least 3) of my own managers who came in with no experience to the jobs and I also had years of experience over them. Were talking people who were literally a 4 or 5 year old when I started the job becoming my boss after I triained them from scratch. The only difference is that they were usually freinds, family, or church members of the higher level managers. To make matters worse after going to HR at more than one of these companies (at least 5 companies), it turns out the arbitration boards and HR members were also part of the "freinds club" or family members etc. I know exactly why I wasn't hired and it's because I wasn't their personal assistant's even on my unpaid off-time. I woudn't go to or join their religion, I wouldn't go to their weekend BBQ's, I wouldn't babysit thier children, run errards on my off-time for them and on an on. 
- At every place I've worked I have seen a systematic firing of all the near retiree's, white men (and women at some places) due to "downsizing" and "business needs" only to have entire crews of people imported from The Phillippinnes and India to directly replace them in thier old desks. This is my reality, and I moved away from those situations only to find myself in the same situations again and again at every job I've ever had. The only only job I ever had that didn't do this was when I was independent contracting and doing audio and lighting for concerts. 
- I'm sorry for my negative vibe I'm giving off here in a guitar thread. I don't really want to be talking about all this. It all started because I said I'd prefer to see good looking sexy women and also they shouldn't bitch if someone calls them a slut after they dress like slut. Sorry for offending anyone offended by that. For anyone that has never been in these situatioons or seen them materialize in the real world I understand it can seem like complaining or making excuses,. but I assure you it is not. Sorry to take all this time explaining, but I wanted to clarify. Can we please get back to guitars?


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## Mathemagician (Nov 19, 2019)

Anyone got pictures of any cool new fenders/colors/control layouts? Maybe someone got a semi-scalloped board?


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## AltecGreen (Nov 19, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> Anyone got pictures of any cool new fenders/colors/control layouts? Maybe someone got a semi-scalloped board?




Did you see these? 
https://www.digimart.net/magazine/a...nder／LIMITED SWINGER、SWINGER】幻のレア・モデルがMIJで復刻！


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## AltecGreen (Nov 19, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> less social commentary, more guitar porn.
> Haruna from SCANDAL's sig guitar.
> 
> 
> ...





Of the three string players, Haruna is the only one routinely using her signature Fender in live performances. Tomomi is favoring her Squire these days while Mami has been using a blue Gibson Les Paul for quite a while instead on any Fender.


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## Mathemagician (Nov 19, 2019)

AltecGreen said:


> Did you see these?
> https://www.digimart.net/magazine/article/2019111503830.html?uiarea=SIDE_RANK&uicmp=[SIDE_RANK] 【Fender／LIMITED SWINGER、SWINGER】！



Oh catfish. No I had not. That shape is INTERESTING. And the headstock could work reversed....

Sonic blue, Olympic white, and black look best. The bridge makes it look like a bass at first glance but it’s probably pretty balanced overall.


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## AltecGreen (Nov 19, 2019)

Mathemagician said:


> Oh catfish. No I had not. That shape is INTERESTING. And the headstock could work reversed....
> 
> Sonic blue, Olympic white, and black look best. The bridge makes it look like a bass at first glance but it’s probably pretty balanced overall.




It's an old design that Fender originally made using leftover parts in 1969. The original vintage versions are not easy to find and prices have gone up. These just popped up last week. Fender Japan has been pretty active these past 4-5 months.


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## KnightBrolaire (Nov 19, 2019)

AltecGreen said:


> It's an old design that Fender originally made using leftover parts in 1969. The original vintage versions are not easy to find and prices have gone up. These just popped up last week. Fender Japan has been pretty active these past 4-5 months.


I mean if you want a guitar with that shape, warmoth sells em. It'd prob be cheaper than buying a japanese one, plus you can customize it. Here's one that I put together/painted:


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## AltecGreen (Nov 19, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I mean if you want a guitar with that shape, warmoth sells em. It'd prob be cheaper than buying a japanese one, plus you can customize it. Here's one that I put together/painted:


I agree. The only Warmoth guitar I thought I about building was based on the Musiclander body. Although, if I made a Warmoth one, it would be end up being more than the Japanese one.


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## Evil Chuck (Nov 20, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> A real _High T Alpha Male® _would have responded to the whole post in good faith.
> 
> Predictable.


That one part I quoted is the only part I cared enough to respond to. Am I obliged to respond a certain way or something? Also, if I get too wild you'll do your usual "get one last jab in before I close the thread so nobody else can respond" routine.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 20, 2019)

Evil Chuck said:


> That one part I quoted makes the rest of his post pretty fucking useless imo. Also, if I get too wild you'll do your usual "get one last jab in before I close the thread so nobody else can respond" routine.



Eh, you picked the most controversial part _out of context_ while otherwise ignoring a very thoughtful, well written post. 

You did so because, in context, it makes sense: treat people like human beings. Have empathy. It's not an abstract concept. 

Turning it into him saying "Fender should tell young women to be prostitutes", when he implied no such thing is just lazy, and again, completely predictable.

The token social regressive shtick is tired. Maybe in 2014 it would have some bite or edge, but in almost 2020 it feels almost quaint. It's not "wild", it's boring. We've done this dance before.


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## Evil Chuck (Nov 20, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, you picked the most controversial part _out of context_ while otherwise ignoring a very thoughtful, well written post.
> 
> You did so because, in context, it makes sense: treat people like human beings. Have empathy. It's not an abstract concept.
> 
> ...


You know what? You're right. I shouldn't discriminate against prostitutes. Everything and everyone, even prostitutes, are equally good and wholesome and worthy of respect. 

Being able to discriminate between two things and make the judgement that one of them is better than the other is only the basis of rational thought, but I should stifle that predilection because saying prostitutes are bad or unworthy of respect commits the worst atrocity of all; being mean.

Thank you for setting me straight on my quest for re-education.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 20, 2019)

Evil Chuck said:


> That one part I quoted is the only part I cared enough to respond to. Am I obliged to respond a certain way or something?



If you don't want to look like a moron, yes. 



Evil Chuck said:


> You know what? You're right. I shouldn't discriminate against prostitutes. Everything and everyone, even prostitutes, are equally good and wholesome and worthy of respect.
> 
> Being able to discriminate between two things and make the judgement that one of them is better than the other is only the basis of rational thought, but I should stifle that predilection because saying prostitutes are bad or unworthy of respect commits the worst atrocity of all; being mean.
> 
> Thank you for setting me straight on my quest for re-education.



Keep moving those posts, and editing your comments. Maybe it'll work out eventually. 

*fingers crossed*


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## Evil Chuck (Nov 20, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> If you don't want to look like a moron, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I only edited my post because I dropped an f-bomb and I didn't want to offend your delicate sensibilities.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 20, 2019)

Evil Chuck said:


> I only edited my post because I dropped an f-bomb and I didn't want to offend your delicate sensibilities.



You got triggered by some guitars that don't exist yet and a dude saying "be nice to people". Kinda calling the kettle black over here.  

I'd say let's hug it out, but I'm afraid you'll just start screaming about prostitutes or something.


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## Evil Chuck (Nov 20, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You got triggered by some guitars that don't exist yet and a dude saying "be nice to people". Kinda calling the kettle black over here.
> 
> I'd say let's hug it out, but I'm afraid you'll just start screaming about prostitutes or something.


I have precisely zero issue with Fender making more signature guitars for females. If I had a daughter I would want her to feel included in whatever hobby might interest her.

I do, however, take issue with how some choose to heap praise upon Fender as though Fender has some moral compass. It's disingenuous virtue signaling on the part of Fender and the people praising them.

You wildly misjudge me, sir.

* I'd also like to add that he said prostitutes "deserve" respect. Sorry, no they don't. Nobody "deserves" respect. Respect is earned, not handed out just because you happen to exist.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 20, 2019)

Evil Chuck said:


> I have precisely zero issue with Fender making more signature guitars for females. If I had a daughter I would want her to feel included in whatever hobby might interest her.
> 
> I do, however, take issue with how some choose to heap praise upon Fender as though Fender has some moral compass. It's disingenuous virtue signaling on the part of Fender and the people praising them.
> 
> You wildly misjudge me, sir.



Your opinion is reflected by the majority of the commentariat: inclusion is good, Fender is doing this for financial ends. 

But none of that is what we're talking about right now. It's cool though.


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## Evil Chuck (Nov 20, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Your opinion is reflected by the majority of the commentariat: inclusion is good, Fender is doing this for financial ends.
> 
> But none of that is what we're talking about right now. It's cool though.


Well, your heart is in the right place I suppose...


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 20, 2019)

Evil Chuck said:


> * I'd also like to add that he said prostitutes "deserve" respect. Sorry, no they don't. Nobody "deserves" respect. Respect is earned, not handed out just because you happen to exist.



He's not asking you to salute them, but treat them like human beings. Maybe human beings that you don't necessarily agree with, or don't particularly want to associate with, but humans nonetheless.

Considering the amount of those who were forced into the sex trade and who are victims of abuse and human trafficking, or have mental illness, maybe a little empathy wouldn't hurt.

Or even if an adult just chooses to be a sex worker. That doesn't take away their humanity.

You do you though.


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## Evil Chuck (Nov 20, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You do you though.


You act like I said I'd purposely walk over to a prostitute and spit in her face or something. I hope a person in that situation gets help and is able to turn their life around. 

But, to say they "deserve" respect is a bit much. You could say they deserve HIV, and I'd agree with you because their actions brought that upon them, but they don't deserve respect. I think we must have different definitions of the word respect.

This is the one I'm using:
a: high or special regard : Esteem
b: the quality or state of being esteemed
c: To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem or admire.

Sorry if I don't admire prostitutes or hold them in special regard.


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## USMarine75 (Nov 20, 2019)

So they're making a guitar that can also make my breakfast?


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 20, 2019)

Evil Chuck said:


> You act like I said I'd purposely walk over to a prostitute and spit in her face or something. I hope a person in that situation gets help and is able to turn their life around.
> 
> But, to say they "deserve" respect is a bit much. You could say they deserve HIV, and I'd agree with you because their actions brought that upon them, but they don't deserve respect. I think we must have different definitions of the word respect.
> 
> ...






Bottom two.

But you know that. You Google'd the definition. You're just acting in bad faith, per usual.


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## Evil Chuck (Nov 20, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> View attachment 74791
> 
> 
> Bottom two.
> ...


OK, I guess I'd have used "compassion" or something instead of respect, but you're right. I don't want to harm any prostitutes, but I also don't hold them in high esteem. Just seemed like a very SJW thing to say that had nothing to do with female signature guitars. That's why I originally quoted it. 

Thank God you were here to white knight for hookers and set me straight.


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## USMarine75 (Nov 20, 2019)

FWIW I have tons of guitars for _females_... they're called _my _guitars.

I bought a pink guitar that is identical to a blue one I own for my 4 year old daughter. She says, "Oh I want the blue one you can have the pink one, Daddy". Win, win.










She also steals my other guitars...


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 20, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> FWIW I have tons of guitars for _females_... they're called _my _guitars.
> 
> I bought a pink guitar that is identical to a blue one I own for my 4 year old daughter. She says, "Oh I want the blue one you can have the pink one, Daddy". Win, win.
> 
> ...



She's got better taste than most. 

You done good.


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## Solodini (Nov 20, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> He's not asking you to salute them, but treat them like human beings. Maybe human beings that you don't necessarily agree with, or don't particularly want to associate with, but humans nonetheless.
> 
> Considering the amount of those who were forced into the sex trade and who are victims of abuse and human trafficking, or have mental illness, maybe a little empathy wouldn't hurt.
> 
> ...




Nailed it, Max.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Nov 20, 2019)

Solodini said:


> Do you think it's right to respect someone more because they wear a suit and tie rather than a black PVC trenchcoat? What about fatigues and military boots; are they more or less worthy of respect than a suit? Does that respect vary depending on whether they're actively in service to the military?
> 
> Why shouldn't it be changed overnight? Why should a certain demographic be expected to continue to be maligned for the way they look just because it's different? Should people who immigrate abandon all of their previous home's cultural aesthetics if they want to be respected? What makes that a valid expectation, rather than expecting to treat everyone with respect until they act in a way which causes harm to others?
> 
> Immigrants deserve respect and support, prostitutes deserve respect and support, single parents deserve respect and support, mentally ill people deserve respect and support, addicts deserve respect and support, poor people deserve respect and support. Fuck abusers.



I think this is the first post where the respect of prostitutes issue came up and was levellled at one of my posts. I think the issue is not whether prostitutes deserve respect or not, that's a personal choice based on your own value system, it's whether _"society" _respects an individual or group. Society is made up of a variety of people with different views and a compromise view has to be taken for society to function, otherwise its "_anarchy". _In the society in which we live which has been developed and shaped by a generation that is likely more conservative than the next, and who still govern that society, then they get to set the rules and that’s why there should be no expectation for the view “of society” to change overnight.

How peoples’ views on the morality and criminality of “the world’s oldest profession” relate to the idealised criteria for “deserving” a signature guitar, I just don’t know.


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## Solodini (Nov 20, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I think this is the first post where the respect of prostitutes issue came up and was levellled at one of my posts. I think the issue is not whether prostitutes deserve respect or not, that's a personal choice based on your own value system, it's whether _"society" _respects an individual or group. Society is made up of a variety of people with different views and a compromise view has to be taken for society to function, otherwise its "_anarchy". _In the society in which we live which has been developed and shaped by a generation that is likely more conservative than the next, and who still govern that society, then they get to set the rules and that’s why there should be no expectation for the view “of society” to change overnight.
> 
> How peoples’ views on the morality and criminality of “the world’s oldest profession” relate to the idealised criteria for “deserving” a signature guitar, I just don’t know.



Because there was discussion of needing to comply with certain individuals' opinions of how we dress and act, in spite of harming no one, in order to be respected, which included double standards in assessing men and women's right to respect based on how they dress, including someone stating that they want to see women looking sexy but if women do so then they are forfeiting their right to respect, which can apparently not be regained without dressing 'modestly'. This linked to people's assessments of who rightfully received signature guitars/endorsements in the past and should receive receive them in future. Some people seem to think that being like a middle-class, white man is the benchmark of being a human.


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## c7spheres (Nov 20, 2019)

- I respect prostitutes. I respect them by giving them what they want, money and a place to stay. Oh, I thought you said destitutes. It's a joke. Just trying to lighten the mood here people.
- Honestly though. Depending on where you live there are public decentcy laws against dressing provocatively. There's a reason why it's called provocative. It's purposely doing it to get reactions out of people. It's reasonable to think that if you dress a certain way that you will get a certain reaction wether that is sexy, professional etc. I respect all types of people regardless of how they dress but I also respect people expressing themselves on how they feel about it too. People that dress in thong's and go twerk on the beach have no place, imo, to get upset when guys whistle at them. It's a known thing by the person, unless they have no sense of the place their at, that this is how it goes. These aren't innocent little butterflies we're talking about. The whole forced into prostitution etc is an entirely different thing though. Can we talk about guitars please?


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## USMarine75 (Nov 20, 2019)

I was raised to be charitable...

I have put more than one stripper or prostitute through college.


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## Chokey Chicken (Nov 20, 2019)

I think the double standards are interesting. Lemmy "beds over a thousand women," it makes a list of why he's a legendary rock god. Women sell sex, they get denigrated for being whores who deserve std's and no common respect. A prostitute isn't an inherently bad person, just so folks know. Default to treating people with respect until they un-earn that common courtesy. Having boatloads of sex doesn't inherently make someone undeserving of respect.

Meanwhile, most of us can just be happy that more people are being encouraged to play guitar. I know I am, and wish it was this way when I started playing. I was always encouraged to play acoustic guitars and "pretty" music. People looked at me like I had a third arm when I just wanted to crank the gain. I don't care about fender's motives, I like the message it sends. 

I am a tad disappointed to see any sort of negative reaction to it.

Also, did you all know that Elvis was once considered provacative and indecent? Funny how shit changes.


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## xzacx (Nov 20, 2019)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Default to treating people with respect until they un-earn that common courtesy.



*Waits for a certain someone to purposefully misinterpret your use of "respect" and chide you for it. 



Chokey Chicken said:


> Having boatloads of sex doesn't inherently make someone undeserving of respect.



Maybe it's because I wasn't raised with religion in my life, but I'll never understand why the amount of sex someone does or doesn't have, has any relevance to their morality (assuming all parties are on the same page). It always comes across to me as a reaction born of jealousy.


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## TedEH (Nov 20, 2019)

xzacx said:


> I'll never understand why the amount of sex someone does or doesn't have, has any relevance to their morality


Completely going on another tangent, but I would assume that it's because you're talking about the process of creating another person, and "creation" is absolutely within the domain of religion.



Chokey Chicken said:


> I am a tad disappointed to see any sort of negative reaction to it.


On some level, I would wonder if that's part of the calculation done when a company like Fender decides to lean hard into the marketing to women angle. Even if we're arguing back and forth, making all these backwards and immature remarks, etc., at the end of the day, the guitars in question are still being actively discussed. Do I think that's what Fender aimed for? Not necessarily, but you can't help but wonder sometimes if a "woke" marketing campaign is intentionally provoking heated discussion and controversy.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 20, 2019)

TedEH said:


> On some level, I would wonder if that's part of the calculation done when a company like Fender decides to lean hard into the marketing to women angle. Even if we're arguing back and forth, making all these backwards and immature remarks, etc., at the end of the day, the guitars in question are still being actively discussed. Do I think that's what Fender aimed for? Not necessarily, but you can't help but wonder sometimes if a "woke" marketing campaign is intentionally provoking heated discussion and controversy.



It's definitely something considered when launching any advertising or marketing campaign: what will people say?

But they're not flying blind. Huge firms research this stuff and help determine the risk vs. reward. 

The facts at hand are:
- Half the population of their most lucrative markets are female
- Each subsequent generation gets more progressive and/or "woke"
- There is an under served market of young women which is expected to grow
- Legacy demographics are diminishing each year

I don't think Fender is aiming to "start a conversation", but the reality is, the folks off-put are insignificant vs. the potential gains.


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## Chokey Chicken (Nov 20, 2019)

TedEH said:


> On some level, I would wonder if that's part of the calculation done when a company like Fender decides to lean hard into the marketing to women angle. Even if we're arguing back and forth, making all these backwards and immature remarks, etc., at the end of the day, the guitars in question are still being actively discussed. Do I think that's what Fender aimed for? Not necessarily, but you can't help but wonder sometimes if a "woke" marketing campaign is intentionally provoking heated discussion and controversy.



Stirring the pot could definitely be part of the strategy. It certainly doesn't hurt them. Stirring the pot is probably more likely to prod someone to buy something out of spite towards someone making dumb arguments. Like a reverse boycott, or something. 

People are super impressionable in the weirdest of ways. Plenty will buy into it, some will be bitter towards it, both sides talk about it, and those interactions fuel more interest. I know for a fact that I've been gassing pretty hard for a fender since this thread popped up, just because it prompted me to even look at fender even though I don't exactly buy into this whole schtick. Some nice fenders and squiers posted in here. 

As for bias, I won't lie, it feels good seeing the amount of women participating in a hobby that used to make me feel so isolated. There's a hell of a long way for acceptance to go, but there are some legitimately talented women getting some recognition beyond just being eye candy. 

I'm probably gonna bow out of this whole conversation now. I'll keep an eye on the thread in hopes of getting some more fender guitar porn. I really miss fender necks, I really aught to look into getting a new strat.


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## Solodini (Nov 20, 2019)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Stirring the pot could definitely be part of the strategy. It certainly doesn't hurt them. Stirring the pot is probably more likely to prod someone to buy something out of spite towards someone making dumb arguments. Like a reverse boycott, or something.
> 
> People are super impressionable in the weirdest of ways. Plenty will buy into it, some will be bitter towards it, both sides talk about it, and those interactions fuel more interest. I know for a fact that I've been gassing pretty hard for a fender since this thread popped up, just because it prompted me to even look at fender even though I don't exactly buy into this whole schtick. Some nice fenders and squiers posted in here.
> 
> ...



Thanks for chipping in with your views.


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## Albake21 (Nov 20, 2019)

xzacx said:


> Maybe it's because I wasn't raised with religion in my life, but I'll never understand why the amount of sex someone does or doesn't have, has any relevance to their morality (assuming all parties are on the same page). It always comes across to me as a reaction born of jealousy.


I'm the complete opposite of religious and I just find it plain gross and a turn off. Simple as that.


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## Avedas (Nov 20, 2019)

AltecGreen said:


> That didn’t take long.
> 
> Fender just announced a signature guitar and bass for Suu and Ainyan of J-pop band Silent Siren.


This band is still around? I saw them in 2015 at a festival when they had a lot of promotion. I liked a bunch of their songs but my god they were not good live.


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## AltecGreen (Nov 20, 2019)

Avedas said:


> This band is still around? I saw them in 2015 at a festival when they had a lot of promotion. I liked a bunch of their songs but my god they were not good live.




Still around and probably bigger than ever. Their collaboration with Poppin' Party earlier in the year certainly did not hurt.


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## Avedas (Nov 20, 2019)

AltecGreen said:


> Still around and probably bigger than ever. Their collaboration with Poppin' Party earlier in the year certainly did not hurt.


I had no idea. I don't really do Twitter/anime/mobile games so maybe that's why, but I spend a lot more time in Shibuya than I'm comfortable admitting and I've heard literally nothing about them in years.


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## xzacx (Nov 20, 2019)

Albake21 said:


> I'm the complete opposite of religious and I just find it plain gross and a turn off. Simple as that.


I guess I'm just less judgmental—doesn't matter to me what consenting adults want to do.


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