# Deep end Amps



## BongoPeg (Oct 26, 2011)

I didn't want to write low end cause that implies cheap but I'm wondering what amps are best for ranges below the low B. (Anywhere from the low F# or whatever it is to the low B) I was thinking about have a Bass tuned down to F or F#, B, E, A and possibly D. Just an extended low range bass. But I know some bass amps do not handle low frequencies like that very well.

WHAT'S GOOD? I'd love to know.


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## MassNecrophagia (Oct 26, 2011)

You'll need to find cabs that are capable of producing those frequencies clearly.


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 26, 2011)

Acme's new Series III "Fullrange" cabs are designed to go all the way down to the low B fundamental, which makes them ideal for lower tunings as well (since that's an extra octave below what your "average" cab will reproduce.) Amplification is less important, as long as you have enough clean wattage and a reasonable HPF at like 30Hz you'll be okay.


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## ZEBOV (Oct 27, 2011)

There really is an Acme brand? 
I hope their amps aren't as shitty as any Acme products While E. Coyote used. *plucks low F#.... magnets act as a rail gun and propel the cones at 10 miles per second... cones vaporize everything they hit.*


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## iron blast (Oct 28, 2011)

There are lots of companies producing cabs/amps capable of F# any lower and you will have trouble. you will need alot of watts to reproduce notes that low loud enough.


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## TheEternalSound (Oct 28, 2011)

I want a low B-4... that cab scares me.. 700watt RMS.. Godly end of story


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## ZEBOV (Oct 30, 2011)

TheEternalSound said:


> I want a low B-4... that cab scares me.. 700watt RMS.. Godly end of story



Oh yeah?
Carvin.com :: B2000-10.8N
2050 watts RMS...


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 30, 2011)

Wattage ratings don't give you any idea of what the cab can produce volume-wise, or even take wattage-wise. That's just the wattage at which the voice coils will start to deteriorate due to heat. Most cabs will probably fart out due to displacement limitations (i.e. the speaker just can't travel any further forward and backward) before getting NEAR the wattage ratings.

Also, I would get two Acme Series III 112 Fullranges before one Low B-4. The Low B cabs with 10" speakers were groundbreaking back in the day but also very limited; low efficiency, and very hard to drive fully without blowing them. The new 112s are louder than the 210s, safer to push, smaller, louder, and fuller-sounding throughout the range.


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 30, 2011)

Very affordable for what they are, which is pretty much utterly unique in the market:

The Acme Sound Low B-112 Full Range System


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## Enselmis (Oct 30, 2011)

I know Basson cabs can get pretty god damn low. 28hz if I recall correctly.


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 30, 2011)

Enselmis said:


> I know Basson cabs can get pretty god damn low. 28hz if I recall correctly.



At the cost of massive weight and huge power requirements to get any sort of SPL out of them. There's a reason they went out of business.


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## knuckle_head (Oct 31, 2011)

Amps aren't the problem - cabs are. 

You won't be reproducing the actual frequencies at any appreciable volume level when you get to roughly F# or G above standard E anyway. You are best to concentrate your reproductive energy into the second harmonic (frequency one octave higher than your fundamental) because it has more than double the sound energy. This is true of any bass note - whether you are at standard E or going down to F# or octave down E.

Any cab manufacturer that suggests they are taking you below 45 Hz and is offering a cab that isn't at least as large as you are or is not processing your signal in order to do it (Bag End) is lying to you.

That said, look for a cab that is solid to 45 or 50 Hz. If you want to buy an industry-built cab look at the Carvin Trx153N and consider that the specs on it are Sound Reinforcement and not Musical Instrument specific. BUT . . .

The best cab for this sort of application is a fEARful 15/6. It will give you true reproduction on SR spec to about 45 Hz. This will cover you pretty close to F#.


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 31, 2011)

knuckle_head said:


> Amps aren't the problem - cabs are.
> 
> You won't be reproducing the actual frequencies at any appreciable volume level when you get to roughly F# or G above standard E anyway. You are best to concentrate your reproductive energy into the second harmonic (frequency one octave higher than your fundamental) because it has more than double the sound energy. This is true of any bass note - whether you are at standard E or going down to F# or octave down E.
> 
> ...



Again, I would argue that the new Acmes are an excellent alternative to the fEarfuls; and one is certainly cheaper (although quieter) and easier to obtain than a 15/6. Different voicing, sizes, weights, and business models though.


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## knuckle_head (Oct 31, 2011)

I'm not dismissing Acme's as a decent cab - I've heard my share and they sound good to be sure - but something is amiss with their specs.

Their B1 has the best chance based on cubic volume to reach low, but it would have to be a magical 10" driver to push 41 Hz. I know of no 10" driver that has the Xmax required to do so at all, much less at the dB level they claim to have. If Acme is the choice it would be better to have multiple B1s than to invest in B2s or B4s.

Granted I bought my components before neo went through the roof, but my 15/6 came in well under the $450 Acme wants for a B1 and I can guarantee it will both go lower and be louder by a wide margin.

There are fEARful manufacturers now . . .

As the OP is Canadian there is a supplier up that-a-way; SHO Bass


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 31, 2011)

knuckle_head said:


> I'm not dismissing Acme's as a decent cab - I've heard my share and they sound good to be sure - but something is amiss with their specs.
> 
> Their B1 has the best chance based on cubic volume to reach low, but it would have to be a magical 10" driver to push 41 Hz. I know of no 10" driver that has the Xmax required to do so at all, much less at the dB level they claim to have. If Acme is the choice it would be better to have multiple B1s than to invest in B2s or B4s.
> 
> ...



Have you seen the Acme Series III 112s? Those are what I'm talking about, not the old Low B cabs (which I really didn't like.) I linked them earlier up in the thread. Appear to be using a 3012LF variant so they're a lot louder and more robust than the old 10" loaded models. 

At $600 they're not bad for how unique and deep they are, and you don't have to wait for them to be built either. Good luck getting a fEarful built nowadays for under $600 all told; the drivers are hugely expensive now


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## HaMMerHeD (Nov 1, 2011)

I am not of the opinion that $600 is a reasonable price for a 1x12 cabinet.


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## TemjinStrife (Nov 1, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> I am not of the opinion that $600 is a reasonable price for a 1x12 cabinet.



Even if that cabinet kicks the ass of a good solid 2x10 or 3x10, or does something that no other commercially available cab does? 

$600 for a 1x12 you can gig with in a fairly loud band and haul in one trip is *definitely* pretty affordable. I paid $650 for my Audiokinesis Thunderchild 1x12, and those are up to ~$850-900ish now and he's still backordered like crazy. It's a one-trip carry, this entire rig, and it'll fill a bar or small club and keep up with a loud drummer.


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## HaMMerHeD (Nov 1, 2011)

OK, perhaps "reasonable price" was not the right phrase. If you make money with your rig, then sure it makes sense to invest in the best stuff.

But I don't make money playing bass. I don't gig anymore, and I'm not interested in doing so. So my opinion is informed by my needs, and my needs don't include spending thousands on a Dingwall bass (which is beautiful, btw) or a $700 amp with a $650 cabinet.

Anyway...Acme's speaker may sound great and may be the only cabinet to successfully reproduce that low B fundamental, but it's too expensive for me for my personal, private use. So no, I don't feel it is worth it.


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## knuckle_head (Nov 1, 2011)

TemjinStrife said:


> Have you seen the Acme Series III 112s? Those are what I'm talking about, not the old Low B cabs (which I really didn't like.) I linked them earlier up in the thread. Appear to be using a 3012LF variant so they're a lot louder and more robust than the old 10" loaded models.
> 
> At $600 they're not bad for how unique and deep they are, and you don't have to wait for them to be built either. Good luck getting a fEarful built nowadays for under $600 all told; the drivers are hugely expensive now



Not seen the III series - it would be a good woofer if so, given its physical size. 

I just sold off a 3012LF. They start to get squirrel-ly above 800-1000.

I've wanted to try a Thunder Child.


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## knuckle_head (Nov 1, 2011)

HaMMerHeD said:


> I am not of the opinion that $600 is a reasonable price for a 1x12 cabinet.



A 12" driver capable of the frequencies at power the OP wants to push is going to run $300+ - not a whole lot of choices for this kind of task.


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## tasteslikecrab (Nov 1, 2011)

A friend of mine has a SWR Big Ben 1x18, and when I was playing his setup a few weeks ago it reproduced my low G faithfully and was punchier and warmer than I would have predicted. They're relatively cheap if you can find them used around $300 range, but they're probably annoying to carry and schlepp.


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## TemjinStrife (Nov 2, 2011)

tasteslikecrab said:


> A friend of mine has a SWR Big Ben 1x18, and when I was playing his setup a few weeks ago it reproduced my low G faithfully and was punchier and warmer than I would have predicted. They're relatively cheap if you can find them used around $300 range, but they're probably annoying to carry and schlepp.



It's also likely not actually going as low as one of those Acmes; rather, it's reproducing one of the higher harmonics and "tricking" your ear into hearing the fundamental.


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