# Efficient practice



## 28mistertee (Sep 4, 2011)

Hey guys,

I was just wondering what you lot work on the most.
I've been playing guitar for just over 3 years and I'd say I still suck big time.

I was just curious on what you practice the most of if there is any particular element you are working on or have worked on in the past that has bought you're playing on in leaps and bounds.

Thanks.


----------



## Winspear (Sep 4, 2011)

Bit of background - 
Playing for 6 years. Over 2 years spent playing along sloppily to songs with no practice because I could sight read tabs as soon as I could play without looking at the fretboard. Developed absolutely dreadful technique of course.
Barely played for the next 2 years and when I did it was as above.
I've spent the past year and a half trying very hard to completely relearn guitar and fix my technique. It's going pretty well.

Economy picking has helped me a lot. I can finally play fairly fast sweep based things and have it sound nice.
Working on slowing down my 'Kirk Hammett' vibrato was a very good idea.
Hybrid picking has been the main focus of the past year. I learnt to fingerpick including my pinky and using a thumbpick at all times. I'm extremely happy with my progress on this technique.
Straightforward metal riffing is still my downfall. I can play some fairly technical styles like Sikth to some extent, but give me a basic 'metalcore' riff - scale runs intersected with muted open strings, and that's where I'm still struggling.


----------



## groovemasta (Sep 4, 2011)

Just some two cents,

I think it comes down to being honest with yourself on what you need improving and finding or creating exercises to target that specific weakness, in time making that your stongest point and restarting the process.

But I'm not that great of a shredder so i don't really know


----------



## Guitarchitect (Sep 5, 2011)

Practicing is a big topic - and unfortunately it's one that's misunderstood by a lot of players. I have about 8-10 posts on the guitarchitecture.org site - Just look under the blueprints tab but here are some key points.

- Have Goals - If you don't know what you want to play, you won't know what to practice.

- Be consistent - Both in how you play (posture, use of a time keeping device, etc), and how often (you'll get more out of practicing a focus hour every day than one massive seven hour session a week).

-Learn tunes - learn as many tunes as you can. The more deeply you learn them (guitar parts, solo - then vocal line, bass line and any other instrumentation) the more you will get out of it.

-Take everything with a grain of salt. Try a bunch of things and find what works for you. Everyone is different - some people dig exercises and some people get nothing out of them. 

I hope that helps!


----------



## Solodini (Sep 5, 2011)

EtherealEntity, are you natively left-handed, by any chance? I know a couple o lefties who play right-handed and can play lead well but struggle to play Teen Spirit. 

I second the suggestions of regularity and of depth in learning music. 

The main thing I practise is my facility without a pick and using anything I learn to create music. If you can't use it to create music then it's nearly useless, other than knowing how best to approach a difficult passage but most people want to go beyond just being a jukebox. 

The other thing is versatility and redundancy: making sure I can do most everything using any combination of fingers or on any beat/subdivision. 

Creativity is definitely the main thing, though. That way I can make music with the technique, rather than just the same 2 shapes, but also know achieve other things musically which would be much more difficult without the technique. 

In saying that, once a passage is written which is quite reliant om one technique them I try to play it another way to subvert that reliance in case of am injury which makes a technique impossible.


----------



## 28mistertee (Sep 5, 2011)

I think with guitar (electric especially) you have to attack it from all angles, chip away at it from each side if you like. There's so many different aspects to learn from it.
I know I've spent my last 3 yrs learning a lot of theory and scales with modes etc but tbh am unable to fit it into a musical context. I know if someone put an acoustic in my hands I'd be very limited on what I can play. I guess I have just got to work an efficient practice routine out, I like many people can only manage an hour or 2 a night due to work/family etc.
Sometimes I wish there was some sort of method to unlock some hidden potential in my playing but like a lot of people it just seems rutt after rutt.


----------



## StratoJazz (Sep 6, 2011)

FIRST!!!!

Practice music, technique, chords, etc. That you will be using soon and pertain to your more current goals. For example, if you have a rock gig or a lesson tomorrow, don't practice jazz or blues stuff. Practice only for that particular Rock lesson or gig. This will save you lots and lots and lots of time and lots of money, especially if you take lessons.

Also practice more often for less time. Practice on one particular thing for 15 minutes, twice a day. No interruptions, no internet, no computer, nothing. Just you, a guitar, amp, and the materials you may need. You will find that this approach may seem tedious at first, but after reflection at a later date, you will find that you progress quickly.

Also practice for specific results. Just because you practice for 10 hours a day doesn't mean your good. IF you practice 10 hours a day focusing on specific aspects of your technique like say play x sweep lick at 120 bpm. You will probably be able to play that sooner than if you just went, practiced, and then gave up because you couldn't get it.

One more thing, take breaks. Keep them short, 3-5 minutes tops.


----------



## KingAenarion (Sep 6, 2011)

I'm primarily a classical musician, with Clarinet being my main instrument.

My rehearsal regime goes as follows. I break it into 3 sections
1) Technical Work. Always done first while I'm still fresh and not bored yet
10 minutes of breathing exercises and singing scales 
Chromatic scales
Chromatic scales in thirds
All of one type of scale and arpeggio in all keys- same type I sung in warmups (Major, minor, harmonic minor, wholetone, octatonic varying each day in a cycle etc)
Same type of scale in thirds
10 minutes of high note practice (a kicker for Clarinet)
10 minutes of finger agility exercises
20 minutes of tonguing exercises

2) Piece practice - 2 hours +
I have 3 categories for pieces I'm working on. New/Learning, in progress, refining.
I start with new pieces (only 1 a day though)going through and learning all the notes with dynamics and tonguing markings. I then divide each piece into easy and difficult sections. I'll leave them at that.
I then work on difficult sections in pieces I'm currently working on. Starting from those at the end of the piece and working backwards. Once I have got the point where I'm comfortable playing all the different parts at a point I'm happy with I move them to the refining category.
During refining I play the piece through and put it all together, I continue to practice the difficult passages and put them into context.

3) Improvisation. I always finish with some improvisational practice, just jamming around to some backing tracks. Usually Jazz, but also work on cadenzas and the like.



So really my 3 categories look like this when simplified.

1) Technical Practice
- Scales and arpeggios in varying forms suited to the instrument
- Instrument specific technical practice (for guitar - sweep picking, downpicking, pinch harmonics, tapping etc)

2) Piece practice
- Learning Notes
- Learning difficult passages
- Putting it all together

3) Improvisation
- General improvisation
- piece specific improvisation.


----------



## Winspear (Sep 6, 2011)

Some great advice here. Check out the PDF of Steve Vais 30 hour workout and have a read - that gives an idea on how to build your own practice routine and what to include. 
Also look at Advanced Technique Development from here: Home - David Brown Guitar under books.



Solodini said:


> EtherealEntity, are you natively left-handed, by any chance? I know a couple o lefties who play right-handed and can play lead well but struggle to play Teen Spirit.



I am, actually, and play normal guitars. It is most definitely my right hand (picking hand) that hinders me. I have wondered if it's anything to do with me being a lefty. 
Like I said I can play a lot of advanced metal riffs like Sikth where there are breaks between notes and have it sound tight, but give me a long alternate picking lead line or a very simple constant picked metal riff and it's my downfall.
That said, I'm sure I can correct it as I haven't practiced these issues THAT much, but I feel I should most definitely be better at it than I am, currently.


----------



## SirMyghin (Sep 6, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> S
> 
> I am, actually, and play normal guitars. It is most definitely my right hand (picking hand) that hinders me. I have wondered if it's anything to do with me being a lefty.
> Like I said I can play a lot of advanced metal riffs like Sikth where there are breaks between notes and have it sound tight, but give me a long alternate picking lead line or a very simple constant picked metal riff and it's my downfall.
> That said, I'm sure I can correct it as I haven't practiced these issues THAT much, but I feel I should most definitely be better at it than I am, currently.



You should be fine, I play the same as you (lefty on right), heck I even came from bass all finger style playing to guitar with a pick. While I probably don't play a lot of the crazy metal riffs you do, I can alt pick pretty solid. You won't see me playing constant 14 NPS solo runs or anything, but who needs to. I can't quite do that anymore anyway, I stopped practicing it a while ago when I realized it was a parlour trick  Probably don't do much better than 10 nowadays, maybe 12 on occasion, depends what I wrote that need it (and it is generally just one quick run so attainable).

Just keep practicing dude, if a decidedly not shredder like me can manage, you should be golden.


----------



## 28mistertee (Sep 6, 2011)

What was said above I probably done for a good 2 yrs, working though a book and playing an exercise a few times then swiftly move on. I know now that was probably a bad approach.
I was looking at a vid on YouTube of Mark Trenonti (one of my fav guitarists) and he says he works on left hand until it tires then switches to right hand exercises and does the same alternating back and forth. I may try this.
If say you had 1-2 hours every evening what kind of exercise regime would you guys recommend? Is it better to work on learning songs than technique.
This evening I'll prob work on my modes across all 7 strings then maybe some legato exercises. Generally I never know what I'm going to practice until I pick up guitar which is prob a bad thing really. :/


----------



## SirMyghin (Sep 6, 2011)

When it comes to doing drills, how long is not that important, FOCUS is. ONLY do drills as long as you are focussed on them. If you aren't focussing it isn't worth it. 

Some folks respond well to songs and music, Govan for example claims never to have done the exercise thing. I also never did the exercise thing on bass and got very far indeed. Some folks like Petrucci advocate a lot of exercises of things you want to work on. 

I do exercises on guitar, and I am not sure why. I may have to revert to capture what I tapped on my bass 

Whatever you do, plan your practices ahead of time, it will help with time management.


----------



## 28mistertee (Sep 7, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> When it comes to doing drills, how long is not that important, FOCUS is. ONLY do drills as long as you are focussed on them. If you aren't focussing it isn't worth it.
> 
> Some folks respond well to songs and music, Govan for example claims never to have done the exercise thing. I also never did the exercise thing on bass and got very far indeed. Some folks like Petrucci advocate a lot of exercises of things you want to work on.
> 
> ...


It amazes me how some guitarists are just incredible by just learning songs etc. Although I've been trying on and off for the past 6 months to nail the solo to "Sweet Child O Mine" and still can't do it, so I can see how learning songs can benefit.
I'm going to try and work out a practice routine for myself maybe do Mon: Legato, Tues: Alt pick etc.


----------



## Dayn (Sep 7, 2011)

Honestly? I don't think I've practiced 'properly' for more than ten hours in over six years of playing. I've only played what I enjoy playing, and that's how I've built my skills up. Perhaps this is not what you were looking for, in which case...

Of course, in those ten hours of practice I've properly focused on technique. Sitting in the lounge watching TV... setting up my netbook and Guitar Pro with a metronome and earphones, and working on my accuracy and hand synchronisation. Play one tempo, straight sixteenths for a minute or so, and make sure every single note is played completely perfectly with no dead notes. Bump up the tempo slightly and repeat. That's how I've practiced 'efficiently'. That's how I've ever practiced any technique.

I suppose if you, unlike me, actually devoted much time to such focused practice, you'd advance much faster. I'm just too uninterested in that, myself.


----------



## Winspear (Sep 7, 2011)

Just a few comments here and there that seem to draw the line between learning songs and doing exercises.

I don't think there has to be a line. Parts of songs are exercises in themselves, put them on a loop and learn to play them properly.

I found a nice thing to do was;
Develop a list of all the techniques you can think of that you are interested in learning. Write them down.
Download 5-10 tabs of songs that you like, vary it up a little too.
Go through each tab and identify the techniques within each section e.g. riff A covers alternate picking, string skipping etc.
At the end you should have a bunch of riffs and licks to learn which cover the list of techniques you made at the start. 
Spend the next however many weeks going through them as exercises with a metronome. Figure out the best fingerings and picking patterns you can use to play a part and write them down, and give say 10 minutes to each part before changing to the next in each practice session.


----------



## 28mistertee (Sep 7, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Just a few comments here and there that seem to draw the line between learning songs and doing exercises.
> 
> I don't think there has to be a line. Parts of songs are exercises in themselves, put them on a loop and learn to play them properly.
> 
> ...


One of the problems I have is I start learning songs but very few in full from start to finish.
This is a great idea just pulling riffs and licks out, I'm going to start doing this.
Thanks.


----------



## rchrd_le (Sep 8, 2011)

I've been playing for 3 almost 4 years now and I would say I'm pretty decent at guitar.

I'm a robot when I practice. There's only two things that I do to practice (in general) not a specific technique.

Learn a lot of songs and one string picking drills. On the songs, I try to learn them twice as fast (unless it's some ultra technical stuff). And on drills I do them until they're second nature.

Not sure if this works for everybody, but it got me pretty fluent in guitar, even though I can't read sheet music or distinguish notes. haha!


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 8, 2011)

I work on whatever I feel like working on.

I've been playing for roughly 15 years now and I'm not the machine I used to be in terms of practice. It's just not fun that way. I've found I improve the most when I'm having fun and not thinking about it. 

Whatever technique I think I've been slacking on lately I just find a way to fuck around with that technique all day. I write riffs that OVER use that technique just to emphasize it and make sure that I'm pulling it off cleanly and also to provide a bit of context for the technique so that it's not just something I can pull off in practice.

I noticed with my alternate picking that I can pick fast as shit when I'm using a metronome just running through the same scales and/or licks all the time but in a musical context I find it difficult to get my picking up to the same speed/cleanliness so I think practicing them in context is most important to me at this point in my playing.


----------



## SirMyghin (Sep 8, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> I noticed with my alternate picking that I can pick fast as shit when I'm using a metronome just running through the same scales and/or licks all the time but in a musical context I find it difficult to get my picking up to the same speed/cleanliness so I think practicing them in context is most important to me at this point in my playing.



This is definitely true, you build a nice comfort bubble of very very familiar patterns where you can fly and trick yourself into thinking you are much better than you are. Been there, done that, I practice much more like you nowadays. Writing stuff then wanting to play it and having to learn is the best practice there is. Especially if it sounds amazing. Keeps you more conscious of notes and such too.


----------



## Trespass (Sep 12, 2011)

Build a solid, consistent foundation, then lift everything you can by ear. This is by no means a strict order. This will hopefully break one out of the awful trap that is "super clean, super precise, but boring as shit" guitar playing.


----------



## Tranquilliser (Sep 13, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Figure out the best fingerings and picking patterns you can use to play a part and write them down, and give say 10 minutes to each part before changing to the next in each practice session.



I do this while soloing/ learning a new solo from a song. For example, in Trivium's 'Throes of Perdition', I decided that it was easier for me to tap the chromatic run right at the end instead of alt-picking it over 2 strings.


----------



## 28mistertee (Sep 14, 2011)

Some great advice here, the thing Is knowing what to practice every time I pick up the guitar. I mean on my level definitely every aspect of my playing needs improving so it's a case of where do u start? 
Aaaaaaarrrrggghh!! Lol!


----------



## gotnothing (Sep 22, 2011)

practice one thing at a time until you have it down....it let's you learn things much more deeply than if you are working on 3-4 things at once


----------



## Solodini (Sep 22, 2011)

Start on what lever leads to your most immediate goal. Once that is progressing nicely, practise your other abilities so they do not suffer for one skill. Do alternating days/sessions of goal:existing ability. Once the new skill/level of skill is at a level you are comfortable with, file it in with the existing skills to practise less intensely to maintain them/ improve gently and bring in your next goal as the intensive practise item.


----------



## Winspear (Sep 22, 2011)

gotnothing said:


> practice one thing at a time until you have it down....it let's you learn things much more deeply than if you are working on 3-4 things at once



Sorry but I have to disagree with this. You'll do much better focusing on a handful of things in small chunks on a regular basis. Until you have _truly_ mastered a technique (years), I think you need to do it regularly to keep it up.

For example, I had never fingerpicked before. I spent many months getting On Impulse by AAL learned. By the end of that, I could fingerpick very comfortably and the song was a breeze. I began to learn the solo afterwards, before going on holiday for 2 weeks. When I got back from my holiday, I had very little time to play guitar for another 4 weeks. Every moment I had to play was spent learning that solo. By the end of that, I couldn't play the fingerpicking parts nearly as well anymore.

Of course, the truth of your statement does vary depending just how much you are focusing on each thing, how varied they are, and how big (whole song, short phrase?) each chunk is. I think you benefit a good deal more from splitting up styles and practicing them regularly, rather than trying to master one thing at a time.

EDIT: Yep Solodini has it.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 22, 2011)

Trespass said:


> Build a solid, consistent foundation, then lift everything you can by ear. This is by no means a strict order. This will hopefully break one out of the awful trap that is "super clean, super precise, but boring as shit" guitar playing.


 QFT


----------



## 28mistertee (Sep 22, 2011)

So would you recommend splitting different aspects of playing into different days? Ie Mon - Alt Picking, Tues - Legato, Weds - Rhythm work etc?
Goals.. There could be another thread open on this. Does anybody pinpoint what they're actual goals are? Like some say you either want to be a rhythm or lead player.. I'd like to think in a few years time I'd like to be half decent at both... An all rounded player. (Got a long way to go yet)


----------



## Winspear (Sep 22, 2011)

28mistertee said:


> So would you recommend splitting different aspects of playing into different days? Ie Mon - Alt Picking, Tues - Legato, Weds - Rhythm work etc?



Absolutely, depending on how much you get to play. If more than an hour on a day I wouldn't go with a technique per day like that. I'd say try and fit in everything at least once a week, evenly spread.


----------



## Solodini (Sep 23, 2011)

Different days, or different practise blocks within a day, depending on how much you practise each day. 
I set myself goals such as wanting to play interesting music with my fingers and no pick, but not just chordal arpeggiated stuff. For that, I spent one day working on pedal steel-type bends with all 4 fingers. The next day I went back to more general playing while fingerpicking. After a wee while, I threw in a wee bit on general other techniques. 
My other short term goal is to have a few cool voice-led chords which I can use at my lady's folk club which stand out a bit but still fit, and are in AFCGCF. For that, I worked out the voicings in isolation then practised them in a few keys while my lady was playing a few folk tunes. As it was a fairly easy goal, technically, I just focussed on it that day. The following days I've just refreshed myself about the voicings, their roles and some interesting sequences between them.


----------



## F0rte (Sep 23, 2011)

Practice many different styles.

I practice how Rusty practices.
Have an efficent time schedule for each different exercise. 2 minutes for each scale practice.

A lot of people seem to think that they can just start out and play it fast which is not the case, so SLOW DOWN.
That is the biggest thing, SLOW. DOWN.
And also, practice many different styles and types of music.
Jazz, Blues, Metal, Classical, everything.
It really helps develop you're playing 10 fold.
Also, make sure to develop different picking styles.
Don't strictly be an alternative picker, or economy picker. Practice both and use both where needed.

Also, I will be uploading a video of a great practice for scales and playing technique that helps speed, as well as solid playability/cleanliness when playing.
DONT BE A SLOPPY PLAYER! And if this is what your looking forward to doing for awhile make sure to play as much as you can.
I play 6-8 hours a day, have been playing for 2 years and can effectively say i'm a great guitarist.
Clean 7 string sweep picking is always a blast 

^ For a lead player.
But I also do a lot of rhythmic stuff as well ;D

Feel free to message me for any help or questions.

Also, learning theory really helped my playing a lot, so if I were to suggest something else, it would be to learn as much as you can theory wise.


----------



## Maniacal (Sep 23, 2011)

You must be an amazing guitar player.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 23, 2011)

28mistertee said:


> So would you recommend splitting different aspects of playing into different days? Ie Mon - Alt Picking, Tues - Legato, Weds - Rhythm work etc?
> Goals.. There could be another thread open on this. Does anybody pinpoint what they're actual goals are? Like some say you either want to be a rhythm or lead player.. I'd like to think in a few years time I'd like to be half decent at both... An all rounded player. (Got a long way to go yet)


 
Maybe, but make sure that improv is part of that practice.


----------



## 28mistertee (Sep 23, 2011)

Wow 7-8 hours a day that's impressive. I'd love to be able to manage more but due to work commitments and family etc I can normally only manage 1-2 hrs a day which I think is half decent practice time.
What I really struggle with is honing in on some focused practice. I mean I have a few books and that but if I say for example (correct me if this is the wrong way) tonight I'm going to focus on my legato, it's choosing what exercises to play or how many to do and how long to spend on each. 
To be honest a lot of the time I'll try something out and then think hey this is way above my skill level then stray a little and try to find something else.
Do you guys also pick whether you are going to play rhythm or lead or do you try and dig into a bit of both?


----------



## F0rte (Sep 23, 2011)

28mistertee said:


> Wow 7-8 hours a day that's impressive. I'd love to be able to manage more but due to work commitments and family etc I can normally only manage 1-2 hrs a day which I think is half decent practice time.
> What I really struggle with is honing in on some focused practice. I mean I have a few books and that but if I say for example (correct me if this is the wrong way) tonight I'm going to focus on my legato, it's choosing what exercises to play or how many to do and how long to spend on each.
> To be honest a lot of the time I'll try something out and then think hey this is way above my skill level then stray a little and try to find something else.
> Do you guys also pick whether you are going to play rhythm or lead or do you try and dig into a bit of both?



Dig into both, pick which suits better and it will stick with you. But strive to be better always.
And thank you, people say i'm ridiculous when it comes to practicing haha.
Legato is a great technique to perfect and a lot of people use it. That is probably the biggest thing I have trouble with.
And don't think it's above your skill level, it is not!
Practice it a lot. Practice it slowly, efficiently, and practice it a lot everyday and sooner or later you will have it down.
If you tell yourself you cant do something, you wont be able to do it.
Confidence in your playing and finding emphasis on notes is what sets the better guitarists out from the rest and is a technique in its own!

I'm sure your a great guitarist though, so don't have doubt in yourself.
Keep up the good work mate


----------



## Solodini (Sep 24, 2011)

LolWotGuitar said:


> And don't think it's above your skill level, it is not!
> Practice it a lot. Practice it slowly, efficiently, and practice it a lot everyday and sooner or later you will have it down.
> If you tell yourself you cant do something, you wont be able to do it.
> Confidence in your playing and finding emphasis on notes is what sets the better guitarists out from the rest and is a technique in its own!
> ...



This.


----------



## 28mistertee (Sep 24, 2011)

LolWotGuitar said:


> Dig into both, pick which suits better and it will stick with you. But strive to be better always.
> And thank you, people say i'm ridiculous when it comes to practicing haha.
> Legato is a great technique to perfect and a lot of people use it. That is probably the biggest thing I have trouble with.
> And don't think it's above your skill level, it is not!
> ...


Hey thanks for the support man, really appreciated. I believe it's just a structured practice routine I'm lacking in. I seem to feel like my playing starts to improve then all of a sudden I hit a brick wall.
My teacher gave me some Satch stuff to learn on my seven string today and since reading your post I thought to hell with it I'll give it a good shot. My task this week is trying not to get frustrated with it all.
Thanks again bro.


----------



## F0rte (Sep 24, 2011)

28mistertee said:


> Hey thanks for the support man, really appreciated. I believe it's just a structured practice routine I'm lacking in. I seem to feel like my playing starts to improve then all of a sudden I hit a brick wall.
> My teacher gave me some Satch stuff to learn on my seven string today and since reading your post I thought to hell with it I'll give it a good shot. My task this week is trying not to get frustrated with it all.
> Thanks again bro.



Anytime man, just keep trying. If it gets frustrating at one point, take a good break get some food, get something to chill out, and after awhile start back at it again from where you left off.
Make sure to learn it slow, and then speed up after you can play it completely clean without any messups.
Glad I could help


----------

