# Michael Romeo using ENGL live. Terrible tone?



## SeanC (Apr 21, 2008)

I saw Symphony X live for the 3rd time a few days ago and I was very exited to see that Michael Romeo was using some ENGL's instead of his usual Vetta II. Looked like it was a Powerball with a Fireball for backup, I'm no ENGL expert though so I could be wrong. Anyway, his tone totally sucked. It was completely lifeless and lacking any kind of presence. You could still still hear everything he was playing ok but not nearly as well as you should have been able to. I would like think that most of it was just from poor sound setup at the venue but I was standing right in front of Romeo so I was able to hear a good amount of his tone coming straight from his cab. His live tone with the Vetta II was way better the other times I saw them. Aside from that it was a totally kick ass show


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## Groff (Apr 21, 2008)

Mic placement/mixing issues i'd guess.


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## Regor (Apr 21, 2008)

IMO, I'd say its due to the fact that Michael Romeo has the worst tone I've ever heard. I can't stand listening to SymX because of it. Sounds like a rubber band. Drives me crazy.


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## noodles (Apr 21, 2008)

When I saw them last year, they sounded horrible. The FOH guy they are carrying around with them is just awful. It had nothing to do with his amp.


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## ArchAngel1024 (Apr 21, 2008)

IMO, Paradise Lost is a disappointing album. I wouldn't see them just based on that.


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## Clydefrog (Apr 21, 2008)

ArchAngel1024 said:


> IMO, Paradise Lost is a disappointing album. I wouldn't see them just based on that.


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## Celiak (Apr 21, 2008)

Clydefrog said:


>


+1


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## ArchAngel1024 (Apr 21, 2008)

The solos were shit all over, fewer arppegios than usual, I remember one solo where he slides an octave or so instead of using a run or legato.


The Odyssey is still their best IMHO.


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## Anthony (Apr 22, 2008)

I thought PL was pretty good. I've got no gripes with Romeo. My only complaint is the singer (doesn't remember his name). I can't stand the singer on so many songs, because he sounds like he's trying to hard to be heavy. I just find it annoying.


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## kristallin (Apr 22, 2008)

Anthony said:


> I thought PL was pretty good. I've got no gripes with Romeo. My only complaint is the singer (doesn't remember his name). I can't stand the singer on so many songs, because he sounds like he's trying to hard to be heavy. I just find it annoying.



That's been my complaint about the band altogether. Most times, to me at least, they just sound like they're trying way too hard.


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## Clydefrog (Apr 22, 2008)

Paradise Lost was easily the album of 2007.

Easily. Nothing came anywhere CLOSE to it.


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## noodles (Apr 22, 2008)

ArchAngel1024 said:


> The solos were shit all over, fewer arppegios than usual, I remember one solo where he slides an octave or so instead of using a run or legato.



Wow. The thing I always liked about Romeo is that he writes really melodic, interesting solos, resisting the urge to just wank chops all over the place.

Is the solo in question "Set the World on Fire"? If so, what sounds like slides are actually extremely fast tapping runs.


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## noodles (Apr 22, 2008)

Anthony said:


> I thought PL was pretty good. I've got no gripes with Romeo. My only complaint is the singer (doesn't remember his name). I can't stand the singer on so many songs, because he sounds like he's trying to hard to be heavy. I just find it annoying.



As far as I'm concerned, Russ Allen can do know wrong. He is a perfect mixture of the best power metal has to offer the vocal world, and the gruff delivery of classic metal.


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## Ryan (Apr 22, 2008)

I'm sure a seasoned vet like Romeo knows how to get a good tone from whatever amps he has around. Which means you can point your finger and give the stinkeye to the sound guy.  Maybe he was micing the head..


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## noodles (Apr 22, 2008)

Seriously, the FOH guy as so bad when we saw them at Jaxx, that the best seat in the house was the back bar, with one of the swinging doors open. Eventually, Eddie--one of the best soundmen in the area--walked up and pushed SX's guy away from the board, fixed everything, and then told him not to fucking touch it.


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## TemjinStrife (Apr 22, 2008)

I do admit that SX was pretty generic-sounding (technically impressive, but generic-power/prog sounding) until Paradise Lost. I think, in that album, they finally found their sound.

Plus, I dunno... I tend to not judge albums on solos entirely. I have to be able to enjoy the whole song first. And Romeo is far, far from someone to be ragging on about solos.

I also really like his recorded tone for some reason. It sounds very different from a lot of what else is out there... very compressed and keyboard-y, yet precise.


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## Roundhouse_Kick (Apr 22, 2008)

Surely you can't judge an album based on how many arpeggios are in it!?!? 

What about composition, arrangement, lyrics, riffs????


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## stuh84 (Apr 22, 2008)

Yep, OH NOES, THERRR ARUNT ENUFF ARPEJIOS

Who cares? Listen to the SONGS, like you should as a musician. Songwriting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Solos


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## John_Strychnine (Apr 22, 2008)

the engl sounded like shit coz he porobably has the mids on 0 (well sounds like)

I could get a better guitar tone by plugging a metal zone into a tv.


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## progmetaldan (Apr 22, 2008)

noodles said:


> When I saw them last year, they sounded horrible. The FOH guy they are carrying around with them is just awful. It had nothing to do with his amp.



Yeah, the same thing has been said on their forum, and Jax, the moderator who is very close to the band said that they're aware there's an issue, and they're working on it... 



Clydefrog said:


>



I concur! 



Clydefrog said:


> Paradise Lost was easily the album of 2007.
> 
> Easily. Nothing came anywhere CLOSE to it.



+1



noodles said:


> Wow. The thing I always liked about Romeo is that he writes really melodic, interesting solos, resisting the urge to just wank chops all over the place.
> 
> Is the solo in question "Set the World on Fire"? If so, what sounds like slides are actually extremely fast tapping runs.




I think he's talking about the solo in 'Eve of Seduction' where there is a massive long run which sounds like a slide, but its actually an insanely legato chromatic run, similar to in his solo on 'Dawn Of A Million Souls' but Ayreon... 



noodles said:


> As far as I'm concerned, Russ Allen can do know wrong. He is a perfect mixture of the best power metal has to offer the vocal world, and the gruff delivery of classic metal.



absolutely 100% right, top of the vocal chain imo is Sir Russell. 



noodles said:


> Seriously, the FOH guy as so bad when we saw them at Jaxx, that the best seat in the house was the back bar, with one of the swinging doors open. Eventually, Eddie--one of the best soundmen in the area--walked up and pushed SX's guy away from the board, fixed everything, and then told him not to fucking touch it.



haha, I've heard that story as well, what a legend! 

Anyway, I would just be happy to see Symphony X live, but I've heard that their whole mix really is lacking, and the fault lies mainly in the FOH people than the actual band. And MJR's tone on Paradise Lost is easily his best, and one of my favourites for prog-metal in general, V is still my favourite album of theirs, but I think overall they did the best mix of shredding v songwriting with killer production of PL, fantastic album.


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## jacksonplayer (Apr 22, 2008)

I've seen SymX several times at Jaxx, and the last time was the first where the sound wasn't very good. Prior to that, I almost thought they were lip-synching to the records because the sound and playing were so clean and precise. I think Jaxx is a hard room to deal with for bands with a layered sound, particularly at metal volume levels. It's just a nasty concrete cave.

I'm such a huge fanboy that I have a hard time imagining someone not liking SymX, but I guess the world would be a very boring place if we all agreed on everything.

Accusing MJR's solos of not being difficult enough? That's a new one on me.


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## TemjinStrife (Apr 22, 2008)

jacksonplayer said:


> Accusing MJR's solos of not being difficult enough?  That's a new one on me.



+1


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## SeanC (Apr 22, 2008)

jacksonplayer said:


> I've seen SymX several times at Jaxx, and the last time was the first where the sound wasn't very good. Prior to that, I almost thought they were lip-synching to the records because the sound and playing were so clean and precise. I think Jaxx is a hard room to deal with for bands with a layered sound, particularly at metal volume levels. It's just a nasty concrete cave.
> 
> I'm such a huge fanboy that I have a hard time imagining someone not liking SymX, but I guess the world would be a very boring place if we all agreed on everything.
> 
> Accusing MJR's solos of not being difficult enough? That's a new one on me.



I agree with everything you said there. Even if their sound isn't that great and you can't hear everything perfectly you can tell they're not hitting a single wrong note. Their playing is so freakishly precise it's unbelieveable. At this most recent show I went to Romeo hit one wrong chord for a brief second which is probably the only live mistake I've ever seen him make. Russel Allen even jokingly made a comment like "Excuse that fuck up from Michael over there" I don't think most of the people there even noticed it.

And anyone who says anything bad about Michael Romeo's solos maybe should listen a little closer next time.

I forgot to add, they said they're already cooking up ideas for the next album


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## Matt Crooks (Apr 22, 2008)

Vic Rattlehead said:


> I forgot to add, they said they're already cooking up ideas for the next album



They actually wrote enough for _Paradise Lost_ to have a double album, so I would think the next album will be a much shorter wait than the wait from _The Odyssey_ to _Paradise Lost_.


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## noodles (Apr 22, 2008)

progmetaldan said:


> I think he's talking about the solo in 'Eve of Seduction' where there is a massive long run which sounds like a slide, but its actually an insanely legato chromatic run, similar to in his solo on 'Dawn Of A Million Souls' but Ayreon...



That was the other one I was thinking of, but I couldn't find a clip of it. I was always wondering exactly what it was he did there.


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## Maniacal (Apr 22, 2008)

Russel Allen may be good, but he has NOTHING on this guy.


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## Edroz (Apr 22, 2008)

progmetaldan said:


> I think he's talking about the solo in 'Eve of Seduction' where there is a massive long run which sounds like a slide, but its actually an insanely legato chromatic run, similar to in his solo on 'Dawn Of A Million Souls' but Ayreon...




i think that's the best thing he did solowise on the whole album . i don't care about the technical aspect of it, or whether it's difficult to play or not, it just sounds fucking cool. .


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## Drew (Apr 22, 2008)

ArchAngel1024 said:


> The solos were shit all over, fewer arppegios than usual, I remember one solo where he slides an octave or so instead of using a run or legato.



Yeah, you're totally right. Romeo fell below what I like to call "The Magic Ratio of Awesomeness" of .45, which is the number of seconds spent sweep picking in a song over the number of seconds spend on all other techniques. He's running about a .28 here, which is frankly just atrocious. I'm actually wondering if he had tendon problems or something while they were tracking, since we're taking about a player who's career average is over .54. Meanwhile, I'm so glad you picked up on that one note; the decision to slide up an octave instead of doing something techically demanding there TOTALLY ruined the vibe for me. I mean, it opens well enough, a few sweeps, a picked run, some legato/tapping, and just as I'm getting my hopes up, ZOMG, A SLIDE! Crushing lows, man, crushing lows... Like, what a hack. Fuckin' _Kurt Cobain _could do that shit. 





*ahem* 

Please re-read your post, trying to see it from the perspective of an outsider, and then meditate on why I'm telling you to lighten the fuck up and appreciate the fact the man can mix stupid technique with this thing a few of us kind of dig called "melody." 

I thought he sounded fine when I saw him - a little compressed, and gainier than I (obviously) like, but not bad. Though, I was wondering if it was aPOD the whole time, which I guess is a strike against him, lol. It wasn't the most organic of tones I've ever heard, but it worked.


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## SeanC (Apr 22, 2008)

Maniacal said:


> Russel Allen may be good, but he has NOTHING on this guy.




Holy shit, I don't even know what to say...


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## Blexican (Apr 22, 2008)

Maniacal said:


> Russel Allen may be good, but he has NOTHING on this guy.


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## jacksonplayer (Apr 22, 2008)

Ok, that's a pretty good reason not to join a prog-metal band...


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## progmetaldan (Apr 23, 2008)

jacksonplayer said:


> I've seen SymX several times at Jaxx, and the last time was the first where the sound wasn't very good. Prior to that, I almost thought they were lip-synching to the records because the sound and playing were so clean and precise. I think Jaxx is a hard room to deal with for bands with a layered sound, particularly at metal volume levels. It's just a nasty concrete cave.
> 
> I'm such a huge fanboy that I have a hard time imagining someone not liking SymX, but I guess the world would be a very boring place if we all agreed on everything.
> 
> Accusing MJR's solos of not being difficult enough? That's a new one on me.



I reckon...



noodles said:


> That was the other one I was thinking of, but I couldn't find a clip of it. I was always wondering exactly what it was he did there.



Yeah, its possibly the most technically difficult thing in any of his solos according to Arjen when he did it on the Ayreon album, and yet sounds one of the most simple... 



Edroz said:


> i think that's the best thing he did solowise on the whole album . i don't care about the technical aspect of it, or whether it's difficult to play or not, it just sounds fucking cool. .



exactly, but rest assured there's still a great technical aspect as well... 



jacksonplayer said:


> Ok, that's a pretty good reason not to join a prog-metal band...



awww, don't be like that...


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## Oogadee Boogadee (Apr 23, 2008)

Drew said:


> Yeah, you're totally right. Romeo fell below what I like to call "The Magic Ratio of Awesomeness" of .45, which is the number of seconds spent sweep picking in a song over the number of seconds spend on all other techniques. He's running about a .28 here, which is frankly just atrocious. I'm actually wondering if he had tendon problems or something while they were tracking, since we're taking about a player who's career average is over .54. Meanwhile, I'm so glad you picked up on that one note; the decision to slide up an octave instead of doing something techically demanding there TOTALLY ruined the vibe for me. I mean, it opens well enough, a few sweeps, a picked run, some legato/tapping, and just as I'm getting my hopes up, ZOMG, A SLIDE! Crushing lows, man, crushing lows... Like, what a hack. Fuckin' _Kurt Cobain _could do that shit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



haha, that's priceless! 


I think Russel has a great voice... but i can understand the criticism.... at times i wish he could just tone it down. he's got a great sound, but i think the choices he makes, at times, can be overboard..... maybe where he sits in the mix is too on top? maybe he needs to chill out here and there and not always be so "on" (ie singing like a WWF wrestler's interview)? A combo of those and other factors? Mix or technique... the result is the same... he's just too present at times.... distracting. i keep asking myself "will he ever shut up?"

kinda the same with Tim in Pharaoh recordings. great voice... but it tires my ears and i'm not sure why.


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## sakeido (Apr 23, 2008)

Maniacal said:


> Russel Allen may be good, but he has NOTHING on this guy.




whoa 
I'm just as likely to listen to that as I am to an actual Symphony X song though.


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## jacksonplayer (Apr 23, 2008)

Oogadee Boogadee said:


> I think Russel has a great voice... but i can understand the criticism.... at times i wish he could just tone it down. he's got a great sound, but i think the choices he makes, at times, can be overboard..... maybe where he sits in the mix is too on top? maybe he needs to chill out here and there and not always be so "on" (ie singing like a WWF wrestler's interview)? A combo of those and other factors? Mix or technique... the result is the same... he's just too present at times.... distracting. i keep asking myself "will he ever shut up?"



Russell has been trying to sound 'heavier' on the last couple of albums, IMHO. I liked his singing better on "Twilight in Olympus" and "The New Mythology Suite", where he had kind of a Dio thing going on. His singing was 'purer' and more melodic on those albums. That said, the guy has been able to transition to 'modern' metal singing quite well.


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## Matt Crooks (Apr 23, 2008)

Oogadee Boogadee said:


> kinda the same with Tim in Pharaoh recordings. great voice... but it tires my ears and i'm not sure why.



You are not the only one who feels this way. I've heard that critisim from other people.


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## progmetaldan (Apr 24, 2008)

jacksonplayer said:


> Russell has been trying to sound 'heavier' on the last couple of albums, IMHO. I liked his singing better on "Twilight in Olympus" and "The New Mythology Suite", where he had kind of a Dio thing going on. His singing was 'purer' and more melodic on those albums. That said, the guy has been able to transition to 'modern' metal singing quite well.



yeah, you're right there, he's tried putting a more aggressive edge on his voice the last 2 albums, and I don't mind it, but yeah I reckon V was my favourite of his vocal performances, brilliant work, everything about that album is just magnificent!


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## jacksonplayer (Apr 24, 2008)

progmetaldan said:


> everything about that album is just magnificent!



+1

That was the first SymX album I heard, and it was pretty much the only album I listened to at all for months on end. In fact, I could even say it was the album that got me back into metal after many years of being more into old-school prog rock.


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## Makelele (Apr 24, 2008)

jacksonplayer said:


> Russell has been trying to sound 'heavier' on the last couple of albums, IMHO. I liked his singing better on "Twilight in Olympus" and "The New Mythology Suite", where he had kind of a Dio thing going on. His singing was 'purer' and more melodic on those albums. That said, the guy has been able to transition to 'modern' metal singing quite well.



I'd still say he has the melodic thing going on too. Almost all choruses on "Paradise Lost" (or "The Odyssey" for that matter) are clean melodic singing, plus the title track and "The Sacrifice" have only got really little "heavy" singing. 

I really like his heavier side too, so I think it's just nice that he does some of that too.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Apr 24, 2008)

John_Strychnine said:


> the engl sounded like shit coz he porobably has the mids on 0 (well sounds like)
> 
> I could get a better guitar tone by plugging a metal zone into a tv.


Now now, don't go stealing my secret sound boyo


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## jacksonplayer (Apr 24, 2008)

Makelele said:


> I'd still say he has the melodic thing going on too. Almost all choruses on "Paradise Lost" (or "The Odyssey" for that matter) are clean melodic singing, plus the title track and "The Sacrifice" have only got really little "heavy" singing.
> 
> I really like his heavier side too, so I think it's just nice that he does some of that too.



Oh yeah, he certainly still does good melodic singing. I'm just more old-school about vocals.


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## Oogadee Boogadee (Apr 24, 2008)

Matt Crooks said:


> You are not the only one who feels this way. I've heard that critisim from other people.



what's weird is that i can't pinpoint why. it's like a complex mix of multiple tiny factors, which alone, don't matter much... and when together, it's hard to break down
.


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## Chris Feener (Apr 25, 2008)

ArchAngel1024 said:


> The solos were shit all over, fewer arppegios than usual, I remember one solo where he slides an octave or so instead of using a run or legato.
> 
> 
> The Odyssey is still their best IMHO.



Are you talking about 4:09 in Eve of Seduction? I hope you aren't, that part kicks so much ass  It's tapped chromatics, sounds so.. off the wall.


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## Ext789 (Apr 25, 2008)

I wish i could sing like russell allen. His tone on high notes is really really excellent. No one sings high male notes quite like him in my opinion.


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## Clydefrog (Apr 25, 2008)

Ext789 said:


> I wish i could sing like russell allen. His tone on high notes is really really excellent. No one sings high male notes quite like him in my opinion.



He and Matt Barlow are on the same level to me.

Maybe Barlow's a bit higher.


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## progmetaldan (Apr 25, 2008)

jacksonplayer said:


> +1
> 
> That was the first SymX album I heard, and it was pretty much the only album I listened to at all for months on end. In fact, I could even say it was the album that got me back into metal after many years of being more into old-school prog rock.



Awesome!  (though old-school prog rock also still rules...)



Chris Feener said:


> Are you talking about 4:09 in Eve of Seduction? I hope you aren't, that part kicks so much ass  It's tapped chromatics, sounds so.. off the wall.



yes he was, but we've since brought his gross misjudgement to his attention and corrected his understanding on the actual complexity of this relatively simple sounding lick.


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