# Ash vs Alder for 8-string



## B36arin (Mar 10, 2009)

The title explains itself really. I'm going to order a guitar from Roter when they start taking orders, and it's going to be an 8-string. The body options right now are mahogany, alder and ash. Mahogany is obviously too dark, but I don't really know that much about alder and ash as guitar woods, especially for the low range of an 8-string. Both should be good, but I'm undecided to which will be better. Currently I'm thinking about ash, but it's more of a hunch than a qualified choice. 

I'm planning on getting as long a scale as possible(probably 28") and I'm going to get a Lundgren M8 for it. So, what are the different sound characteristics, and how do they affect an 8-string?


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## Sponge (Mar 10, 2009)

I wish I could add to the alder/ash. No idea yet, but from reading (as a lefty usually has to do with ERG's) it seems as if ash varies from guitar to guitar and alder has a more consistent tone. Alder has a broad range of tones and less mids than basswood but also room for highs and lows.

Mahogany I've played with on both 7 and 8 and would recommend something with more response and less muddy lows if you are going to play with a bass player.

The current 8 I'm waiting on was a decision between ash and alder and went with the alder. 

jemsite has a link here for more detailed information:
Guitar Wood FAQ - Wood Types & Tones

Cheers, and hope your 8 string turns out just as you want!


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 10, 2009)

i think ash is heavyer and brighter than alder. from my experience with my 28" scale alder guitar, i&#180;d say go for alder. also, swamp ash (instead of regular ash) has a good resonant tone.

so i&#180;d say either alder or swamp ash. about the scale, 28" is good, but i&#180;d go a little longer. 28.5" scale or something, maybe?

i&#180;d go for 30" scale myself, because i&#180;m a whore for long scale lengths


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 10, 2009)

Yes, I think MF Kitten nearly came with zeal over my baritone neck thread .

Personally, I'd say either wood option would be suitable, as the extended scale is going to clear/tighten things up a LOT.


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## Sroth Saraiel (Mar 10, 2009)

from what I read swamp ash is awesome for low tunnings


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## B36arin (Mar 10, 2009)

I don't know if you've read the Roter Custom thread, but they are making a custom run with limited options, which is the reason I can afford a custom. The options aren't decided on yet, but the last time Sebastian posted about the options, the possible scale lenghts were 26" and 28". I don't really mind the 28" though, it should be tight enough with a body that isn't muddy and a Lundgren in the bridge  And I'm reluctant to go that much higher, because I'm afraid that a very long scale length might reduce playability for me.

Thanks a lot for the tips, I am so undecided right now


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## possumkiller (Mar 11, 2009)

dude i had the same worries about the long scale length reducing playability for me also. i was looking at 8s for months before buying 2 and i was so unsure. i got the ibanez rg2228 and the agile intrepid. i must say that i love the ash body on the intrepid standard along with the passive pickup. the basswood and emg on the ibanez didnt sound good to me. plus the 28.625 scale length totally kills it makes it ring out so much more and brighter and louder. honestly its quite easy to play. makes leads easier for me because the frets arent so close. the 27 inch ibby scale felt just the same as a 25.5 scale to be honest. and i wouldnt be afraid at all to buy a 30 inch scale guitar now.

and i just now bought another intrepid


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## Scali (Mar 11, 2009)

I believe Meshuggah use alder for their 8-string Ibanezes?
I like alder because of its sweet high-end.
Ash sounds a bit brighter, more harsh, more percussive to me. Closer to maple...?
I'm not sure how the woods would differ at the extreme low end, although I believe that ash is quite a popular wood for basses, while alder isn't.


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## vansinn (Mar 11, 2009)

B36arin said:


> ...it's going to be an 8-string. The body options right now are mahogany, alder and ash. Mahogany is obviously too dark...



In my experience, African Mahogany differs from at least some other types, in that it's got a nicely wide ranging tone and is more lightweight.

I have two Mahogany axes, both 6'ers, so I can't say WRT 8-stringers..
One with a heavy dark Mahogany body and set neck with a rosewood board, producing a decent top, nice mids but slightly muddy, or at least less detailed, buttom.

The other, outfitted with an African Mahogany body and sycamore bolt-on neck with an ebony board, has a nice even pretty bright tone all over the board, and pretty good sustain from top to buttom, the latter being really well defined.


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## B36arin (Mar 11, 2009)

possumkiller said:


> dude i had the same worries about the long scale length reducing playability for me also. i was looking at 8s for months before buying 2 and i was so unsure. i got the ibanez rg2228 and the agile intrepid. i must say that i love the ash body on the intrepid standard along with the passive pickup. the basswood and emg on the ibanez didnt sound good to me. plus the 28.625 scale length totally kills it makes it ring out so much more and brighter and louder. honestly its quite easy to play. makes leads easier for me because the frets arent so close. the 27 inch ibby scale felt just the same as a 25.5 scale to be honest. and i wouldnt be afraid at all to buy a 30 inch scale guitar now.
> 
> and i just now bought another intrepid



I have a 24.75" Gibson SG and a 26.5" Schecter Blackjack. The Schecter is nicer to shred on, but if you want to do extended chords on the first few frets, the fret spacing can potentially become a problem, because I don't have huge fingers. 26.5" is no problem at all, but beyond 28" I'd start getting nervous if I couldn't try out the instrument. 



Scali said:


> I believe Meshuggah use alder for their 8-string Ibanezes?
> I like alder because of its sweet high-end.
> Ash sounds a bit brighter, more harsh, more percussive to me. Closer to maple...?
> I'm not sure how the woods would differ at the extreme low end, although I believe that ash is quite a popular wood for basses, while alder isn't.



Meshuggah do use alder for their 8-strings, but I think that Fredrik's iceman is ash. Either that or they are getting new customs with an ash body. So they basically use both. And with me being a huge Meshuggah fanboy, that doesn't help at all 



Vansinn said:


> In my experience, African Mahogany differs from at least some other types, in that it's got a nicely wide ranging tone and is more lightweight.



That sounds really awesome! But the options are going to be limited, and I doubt I could get Sebastian to get fancy mahogany for the same price. I really love your nickname btw


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 11, 2009)

they dont use the icemans though, they prefer the alder RGs


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## B36arin (Mar 11, 2009)

Ok, I didn't know that. Anyway, I don't want to copy Meshuggah, I just really like their tone.

This thread has been really helpful so far, but I'm stille quite undecided. Anybody got any more experiences to share?


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## Variant (Mar 11, 2009)

Like with the ladies all ash is not created equal.  Lighter cuts of ash have a different (more resonant, but also more boomy) one. I'd lean more towards a heavier ash, or alder which is pretty balanced. Personally, when I do a custom eight, I'm probably going to go alder, with a 3/4" maple top to keep the leads round, and the rhythms articulate. Also, keep in mind that the fingerboard has a big effect on the tone as well.


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## Erick Kroenen (Mar 11, 2009)

i think you should ask to roter.. for me (wenge neck + ebony fretboard )+ ash if you don't like this combo or the alder you can always sell the guitar and get another one..


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## Tombinator (Mar 13, 2009)

Alder for it's brightness, attack and definition of each individual string.


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## joshc482 (Mar 14, 2009)

just get a maple/wenge neckthrough with alder wings and make win like meshuggah.


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## Erick Kroenen (Mar 14, 2009)

he is taking the roter semi custom wenge neck + ebony fretb.. is not and option.. only 7,8 and 26",28".. and the color


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## Tom Drinkwater (Mar 14, 2009)

I have found that alder, ash and poplar are quite similar. Nearly interchangeable to most big guitar companies. Unless you could choose the exact cut of any of those woods I wouldn't waste any sleep over it. I have also found that even more so than wood, the nut material, saddle material and strings contribute to the instruments tone. What is he offering for nuts? Saddles? Oh, and go with the 28". It feels just like the 27" but it will help the low end big time. Linc Luthier baritones are 28.6" and when I first played one I thought it was much shorter. Incredible.


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## B36arin (Mar 14, 2009)

Yeah, I'm definitely going for the long scale. I'm also putting a Lundgren M8 in it(or maybe buying one and sending it to Sebastian when the guitar gets underway), so hopefully it's going to sound really clear and defined. The responses here have been really helpful so far! Alder sounds like a safer bet, but I'll have a talk with the guys at Roter about it when they start taking orders  But I'm convinced that it will turn out to be a great instrument with both ash and alder.


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## God Hand Apostle (Mar 14, 2009)

Alder body / Ash top with black binding. cha-ching!


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## sol niger 333 (Jun 30, 2009)

I can add to the vote on alder. Just bought a baritone fender jaguar. Alder body with maple neck and RW fingerboard. Acousticly it slays my all mahogoany mmm1 mushok baritone ibanez. Clearer, brighter, punchier and twice the sustain. Ash tends to be snappier and slightly more scooped sounding than alder. Alder had a roundness to the clarity rather than a spank or snap to the clarity so with the right pickup I think she will be super clear but not " Fran Dresher" as someone said in another thread haha. I love that analogy. Be wary that different cuts of the same wood can change too. I played the same fender in a shop and it had less resonance and was heavier than the one I bought. If its custom go in and tap the chunks of wood they have on option for your build. Whichever chimes the loudest and to your tastes tell them to use that bit!! If you can do that


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## Scar Symmetry (Jun 30, 2009)

Ash.


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## Apophis (Jun 30, 2009)

ash


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## LordCashew (Jun 30, 2009)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> I have found that alder, ash and poplar are quite similar. Nearly interchangeable to most big guitar companies. Unless you could choose the exact cut of any of those woods I wouldn't waste any sleep over it. I have also found that even more so than wood, the nut material, saddle material and strings contribute to the instruments tone.



Therefore go ash because it looks cooler than alder.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jun 30, 2009)

I think the fact that the guy hes about to buy a guitar from said ash it /threads.


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## Seebu (Jul 1, 2009)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> I think the fact that the guy hes about to buy a guitar from said ash it /threads.



Indeed.


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## chubby-ol-gangster-core (May 11, 2012)

Ash is a bit too bright for my taste but it's not the worst by far. i'd go with alder


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## Cremated (May 12, 2012)

This is so 2000 and late.


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## Brohoodofsteel75 (May 12, 2012)

Necro-bump much?


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## jeremyb (May 12, 2012)

I would go alder unless it's swamp ash, I built a hard ash Tele and it's way too trebly sounding


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## AwakenNoMore (May 12, 2012)

Although this is a necro-bump, it was slightly helpful to me.


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## darren (May 12, 2012)

It is a necro-bump, but still a good question.

I chose Ash for the Agile Intrepid and Texan, because it's one of my favourite tone woods. It's got a nice presence and good depth. I haven't used Alder much (mainly because it's a rather plain-looking wood, and i mostly do oil finishes), but it's another great well-rounded tone wood with a nice growl and cutting high end. 

When i met with Tosin last year, he had recently taken delivery of one of the new Carvin 8s, and he really loved the sound of the maple neck-thru with alder wings.


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## Alekke (May 13, 2012)

I have a custom 28.6", ash body with M8 guitar and this is what I noticed in comparison to Blackjack that has 26.5", mahogany body and M7:

sound is very bright and percussive, almost as piano. Very defined low end that can go huge but little scooped on the lower midrange. It has a resonant frequency in upper mids somewhere which gives it a unique sound. It is gut-squeeze tight!


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