# Arm Contour - what to do if a guitar doesn't have one



## sartorious (Mar 8, 2014)

I have two 7-strings: one with arm contour/one without arm contour. I usually play sitting down in a kind of classical position, because this seems to help keep better posture for back and wrist issues. But whether playing seated or standing, I notice the guitar without arm contour irritates my right forearm. As in leaving skin indentations and maybe an unpleasant sensation in deeper tissue. I'm just pressing too hard to get my hand in position. As a result, I find myself gravitating towards my more comfortable but lower quality sounding guitar with an arm contour.

This is becoming important as I'm thinking of a new guitar I'm torn between the KM-7 and an RGD (or maybe Banshee 7). The KM-7 hits every single bullet point except the arm contour.

So what do folks do if a guitar lacks an arm contour? Does it bother you or not? Does it help improve your playing by signalling when you're doing something wrong? Do you adjust your playing by pushing your shoulder and elbow forward? Do you wear an armband like I've seen Keith wear in a video? Do you just pick something else instead?


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## Khaerruhl (Mar 8, 2014)

I actually don't own any guitars without an arm contour. But I don't think that much about it. I've never looked at a guitar and thought "Im not getting that, it doesn't have an arm contour!" It's always been something else that either got me to the guitar, or got me away from it. 

Do you tense your arm up when you play, or do you push your arm against the guitar?


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## -42- (Mar 8, 2014)

If an arm contour is make or break for you then don't pick up the KM-7. In my opinion ergonomics are at least as important as build quality when choosing a guitar. Stuff like pickups or tuners or the bridge can all be replaced or upgraded but there are very few ways of making a guitar more comfortable to play.


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## sartorious (Mar 8, 2014)

Thanks, folks.

Khaerruhl, yeah I definitely push my arm against the guitar and I'm constantly trying to make my arms and fingers relax. It's the tone and scale length that attract me to the "uncomfortable" guitar. Then I switch to the other, and it's like a sigh of relief.

-42-, I guess I'm trying to figure out if it *should* be make or break for me. I'd hate to pass up an otherwise ideal guitar because I have a bad habit or something. No one else seems to mind the body shape in the entire KM-7 thread. If you have guitars with/without arm contours, do you notice a difference in how you play?

I definitely agree about ergonomics. An unspoken thought I've had recently is "Why would I buy a guitar from a company that doesn't care about my comfort?". .strandberg* guitars fill my dreams.


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## darren (Mar 8, 2014)

I've found that using a sweatband on my forearm helps reduce the pressure and chafing on my guitars that have a hard edges. Also helps to stop your arm from sticking to the painted top when things get sweaty on stage.


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## sartorious (Mar 8, 2014)

I haven't thought of sweatbands since the 80s, but now I'll put one on my list of things to get. Thanks! If it makes a significant difference, that'll be awesome.


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## DISTORT6 (Mar 8, 2014)

I get my sweatbands from here:

Unique Sports Products, Inc.: Hot Glove® 6 Inch Wrist Band

Black, of course. 
They also have the regular length, too.


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## Andromalia (Mar 8, 2014)

My love for RRs and explorers comes from the lack of need of a contour. Playing a Les Paul is just painful for me, although I love everything else about them. 
If this is going to be your main guitar, ergonomics first. Darren's solution above likely works, but I wouldn't want to have to resort to carrying sweatbands every time I want to play comfortably.


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## Khaerruhl (Mar 8, 2014)

sartorious said:


> Thanks, folks.
> 
> Khaerruhl, yeah I definitely push my arm against the guitar and I'm constantly trying to make my arms and fingers relax. It's the tone and scale length that attract me to the "uncomfortable" guitar. Then I switch to the other, and it's like a sigh of relief.



Well there you have it! You have a problem, you know the reason, time to work on it! Lack of an arm contour leading to pain should be something you can work on I think. Don't push your arm against the guitar, and be relaxed. Don't try to force yourself to become relaxed. Just have a seat, think of something calm and soothing. The guitar is something you work with, not against.

I noticed now that you wrote in your first post that you "usually play sitting down in a kind of classical position". What other positions do you use? How do you sit when you sit in your "kind of classical position"? How high do you have your guitar strapped? Could it be too high, resulting in your right arm being in a weird angle or something? 

I don't have a guitar without an arm contour, but I have been playing loads of guitars at the various stores that I've been in and I usually play them for hours on end. Not once have I had a problem with a lack of arm contours. Sure, the Les Paul shape is something I have a hard time with, but that's because of the awkwardly big body not mixing well with classical position. And I really hate playing like this.


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## sartorious (Mar 8, 2014)

Andromalia said:


> My love for RRs and explorers comes from the lack of need of a contour. Playing a Les Paul is just painful for me, although I love everything else about them.
> If this is going to be your main guitar, ergonomics first. Darren's solution above likely works, but I wouldn't want to have to resort to carrying sweatbands every time I want to play comfortably.



I admire folks who can enjoy a variety of things, guitars included. Another vote for ergonomics.  The sweatbands could take some getting used to. I figure it's worth a shot in case it opens more doors.


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## sartorious (Mar 9, 2014)

Khaerruhl said:


> Well there you have it! You have a problem, you know the reason, time to work on it! Lack of an arm contour leading to pain should be something you can work on I think. Don't push your arm against the guitar, and be relaxed. Don't try to force yourself to become relaxed. Just have a seat, think of something calm and soothing. The guitar is something you work with, not against.
> 
> I noticed now that you wrote in your first post that you "usually play sitting down in a kind of classical position". What other positions do you use? How do you sit when you sit in your "kind of classical position"? How high do you have your guitar strapped? Could it be too high, resulting in your right arm being in a weird angle or something?
> 
> ...



By "kind of a classical position", I mean that the way I hold the guitar looks similar to the classical style, but I'm not experienced enough to confidently say it is *the* classical position. The body goes between my legs and the lower curve rests on my left thigh. The neck is angled upwards about 45°. Years ago I played with the guitar more like Slash above, resting on my right leg. I switched because my left wrist began to complain and I noticed it was cranked in kind of an awkward position (really flexed). Going to a classical position practically eliminated that problem. While seated like this with an edged guitar ("lack of arm contour" is getting annoying to type), I can reduce irritation by angling the body upwards (if I look down I can see more of the body's front). The flip side to doing that is that it also angles the neck, so I have to crank my left wrist more to finger the chords. An alternative is that I can spread my legs and let the guitar fall a few inches so only the bottom horn rests on my left leg, kind of like my standing position.

While standing, my edged guitar is more comfortable with the body at kind of a normal height(?) with the body centered at my belt. This means I have to hold the neck up with my left hand to get that comfortable position, but from what I understand that's common. Keeping the guitar at this height kind of lets it sink beneath my chest, so my right arm doesn't rest on the guitar so much. Now that I'm paying a lot of attention to it, I'm not sure what goes wrong with this position. Maybe I start correcting my posture (I tend to slouch) so I'm not so hunched, which could make my belly push the body (and edge) outward into my right arm.
Placement looks kind of like this guy at 0:54, but maybe 2-3" higher. And I'm not such a sloucher...I think.: 


Looking at Keith play here, I think he has kind of a hunched posture that automatically places his right shoulder forward. The result may be that the forearm doesn't press too hard against the edge. I've been plagued by poor posture for years, and playing like that would drive me crazy:


As for Slash above, yeah, I think that's kind of how I started. Can't imagine going back to that, though, unless there's a good reason. I see Keith play the KM-7 with it resting on his right leg, and it looks fine for him. For me, it'd feel strange to have the neck pointed away from my body, and to keep my right elbow cocked back so I'm not picking over frets 21-24.

At this point I'm rambling. I hope some of this made sense. I appreciate the thought you've given so far and wanted to give you a better idea of what I meant. I spent the past few hours trying a bunch of positions and I'm just going to have to step away from the computer for a while.

The one thought I'm going to leave for tonight is that maybe it really is the posture correction that pushes the edge into my forearm. I'll think more about that tomorrow.


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## groverj3 (Mar 9, 2014)

I sold a guitar I had solely because it lacked a forearm contour. I don't believe I push into it too much either, it just wasn't comfortable to play.

If something isn't comfortable, then don't buy it. Simple as that!


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 9, 2014)

sartorious said:


> So what do folks do if a guitar lacks an arm contour? Does it bother you or not? Does it help improve your playing by signalling when you're doing something wrong? Do you adjust your playing by pushing your shoulder and elbow forward? Do you wear an armband like I've seen Keith wear in a video? Do you just pick something else instead?



I absolutely hate guitars without arm contours. I simply can't play them and have turned down so many nice guitars over the past few years because of this

BUT

The KM7 is a slight arch top which I find quite comfortable. I'm not sure how pronounced the arch top is but if its anything like my Sunset Masterworks then its just as comfortable as an Ibanez contour for me.


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## sartorious (Mar 10, 2014)

groverj3 said:


> I sold a guitar I had solely because it lacked a forearm contour. I don't believe I push into it too much either, it just wasn't comfortable to play.
> 
> If something isn't comfortable, then don't buy it. Simple as that!



I'm leaning in that direction. I'd hate to get a new guitar then sell at a loss because I preferred playing something else. Thanks for voting, and pretty much saying what I think I'm feeling deep inside.



Lorcan Ward said:


> I absolutely hate guitars without arm contours. I simply can't play them and have turned down so many nice guitars over the past few years because of this
> 
> BUT
> 
> The KM7 is a slight arch top which I find quite comfortable. I'm not sure how pronounced the arch top is but if its anything like my Sunset Masterworks then its just as comfortable as an Ibanez contour for me.



 Beautiful guitar. And actually, my edged guitar is an older C-7 Blackjack. It has a nice belly cut and the top is arched like yours. I'm not sure if the arch is as tall as yours, but it has a Tune-o-Matic bridge, so the strings seem pretty high anyway. You're giving me some hope that I can learn to enjoy the edged guitars, so I'll give it some additional consideration. Congrats on your KM-7 order, by the way! I hope you like it.


So to kind of wrap up the thread: My current plan is to keep playing both guitars for now, try fiddling with my technique, and make a decision a little later this year when I'll probably have more funds to work with. At that point KM-7s should be in stock, and I might be able to try out an RGD to see if it's worth the money. Thanks to all who shared their views.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Mar 10, 2014)

Best arm contour is the EBMM JPs or SBMM JP70s. Love the arm contour on them guitars


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## stevexc (Mar 10, 2014)

I've got an LTD H-1001 which, being an archtop, has a pretty sufficient arm contour, as well as a Tele that, well, doesn't. I don't find any issues going from one to the other, at least not related to that - my play style does change, but moreso due to the fact that I'm going from a superstrat to a Telecaster.

Realistically unless it's quite a thick guitar with a fairly sharp edge, and/or you really press your arm heavily into the edge, you won't notice it.

As the KM-7 is an archtop, it'll likely feel relatively contoured, IMO.


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## sartorious (Apr 1, 2014)

stevexc said:


> Realistically unless it's quite a thick guitar with a fairly sharp edge, and/or you really press your arm heavily into the edge, you won't notice it.
> 
> As the KM-7 is an archtop, it'll likely feel relatively contoured, IMO.



I kept thinking there was something to that...that I somehow must have been pressing my arm too heavily into the edge. Then it occurred to me that the way I hold the pick has something to do with it. When I first started playing, I would hold the pick with my thumb against the fleshy part and side of the last bone (and maybe knuckle) of my index finger...and pick with kind of a writing motion. A teacher once asked me why I did it that way and said I should curve the index finger more so I hold the pick against the *side* of the last knuckle (+/- middle bone)...which locks the pick more firmly in my hand. Well, to do that I need to get my forearm more flush with the guitar body. And the way that I currently hold the guitar, to do so means that I really push that forearm into the body edge.

Recently I decided to fiddle around, not paying attention to proper form, and started to think "Huh. This feels good.". Turns out I defaulted to my original method.

Now I'm going back to how I used to pick, which feels far more natural and comfortable to me, and also allows me to rotate the pick so it strikes the string more perpendicularly, instead of at an angle. I hope that description makes sense. If anyone wants pictures, just ask. Anyway, I feel a lot less tension in my elbow and back of my hand (you were on to something, Khaerruhl), and my hand is allowed to rest at an angle where the base of the thumb is away from the guitar strings. This means I don't have to push against the guitar body to be in picking position. So I don't. And I don't notice the damned edge. Winning! Having an arm contour is still more comfortable, but the edge no longer bothers me. I now question if one way of holding the pick was ever "better" than the other, but even if this way is somehow worse I'm much happier and ready to play. (I also checked a few videos of Broderick and Loomis, and they seem to hold the pick somewhat similarly. Can't tell with Keith, and maybe it's a little different for more rhythm-oriented stuff.)

Thanks again to all who wrote. I figured y'all deserved an update since it seemed like it's been resolved. Funny enough, I've now become at least as interested in the DC7X as the KM-7 or RGD2127. Hopefully this helps someone else down the road.


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## Adventrooster (Apr 1, 2014)

This is interesting. My first proud purchase was a PRS 22 SE when I was 18 at my first job, first check, that sort of deal. My overall appearance was very different. I wore the wrist bands, and always felt like it was comfortable with the combination of the uncontoured body of the PRS. My positioning was much like Slash shown above. Now with all of my guitars having a countour, I can definitely say it has spoiled me. I'd second the wristband idea as well.


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## sartorious (Apr 1, 2014)

Adventrooster said:


> This is interesting. My first proud purchase was a PRS 22 SE when I was 18 at my first job, first check, that sort of deal. My overall appearance was very different. I wore the wrist bands, and always felt like it was comfortable with the combination of the uncontoured body of the PRS. My positioning was much like Slash shown above. Now with all of my guitars having a countour, I can definitely say it has spoiled me. I'd second the wristband idea as well.



In my case, I really don't like playing like Slash, but I can see how that position puts little to no pressure on the forearm. If that works for you, . Also, I'll say the transition from 6 to 7 strings made me pay much more attention to ergonomics. It doesn't seem like it should be a big leap, so maybe it was my guitar choices. Or I'm just a precious snowflake.


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## asher (Apr 1, 2014)

sartorious said:


> In my case, I really don't like playing like Slash, but I can see how that position puts little to no pressure on the forearm. If that works for you, . Also, I'll say the transition from 6 to 7 strings made me pay much more attention to ergonomics. It doesn't seem like it should be a big leap, so maybe it was my guitar choices. Or I'm just a precious snowflake.



I blame joining this forum, personally 

Glad you worked it out! Picking is a highly personal thing, so I'd keep to what's comfortable as long as it's not obviously inhibiting your technique.


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## Lorcan Ward (Apr 1, 2014)

sartorious said:


> Beautiful guitar. And actually, my edged guitar is an older C-7 Blackjack. It has a nice belly cut and the top is arched like yours. I'm not sure if the arch is as tall as yours, but it has a Tune-o-Matic bridge, so the strings seem pretty high anyway. You're giving me some hope that I can learn to enjoy the edged guitars, so I'll give it some additional consideration. Congrats on your KM-7 order, by the way! I hope you like it.



I have my K-7 two weeks now and its very comfortable on your right forearm. Like I said I absolutely hate flat top guitars with no contour but the arch top makes it comfortable.


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