# Sweep Picking Guide - Do YOU want it?



## 80H (May 17, 2013)

Interested in sweep picking? Suck, never tried it or can't find a good guide? 


I'm busy with another project now (see: my theory thread), but once I'm done, technical practice is next up, and sweep picking seems like a logical place to start since I've never really refined my sweeps the way that I'd like to. I know how to sweep and sweep well, but I did it in pieces because I could never find a guide that felt complete enough for what I wanted. 


I know that a lot of people want to sweep, sweep tap, hybrid sweep (sup tosin) and just generally have the fretboard confidence that comes from being able to sweep all over the neck, but I'm not sure if those people are on this forum and would appreciate the guide.



*If you're interested, drop a reply or like this post (if you don't want to type)*. If there's 30 or so people, I'll make the guide. If the people want it, I'll make the guide this week for myself, test it to be sure that it's solid and then post it here for everyone. 



I'll be on my computer for a few more hours and then it's off to Friday night, but I work from my laptop so I'm usually around if you have any questions or requests.


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## piggins411 (May 17, 2013)

I would. Specifically, it'd be nice if you could focus a little more on the muting aspect than some people do, especially in regard to the right hand (assuming you're playing with a right handed guitar). No one has EVER explained well enough for me to understand that part.


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## Lagtastic (May 17, 2013)

I have been playing around with sweep picking for about 6 years. I feel that I have become quite proficient at many techniques, but there is always room for more leaning. 

It's always nice to have an additional perspective from an experienced player.


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## 80H (May 17, 2013)

piggins411 said:


> I would. Specifically, it'd be nice if you could focus a little more on the muting aspect than some people do, especially in regard to the right hand (assuming you're playing with a right handed guitar). No one has EVER explained well enough for me to understand that part.




(I usually just say pick hand or picking hand to avoid confusion)

Any specific muting examples? I think I know what you mean though, and I can definitely include a general guideline on how to eliminate excess noise on certain amp settings. 



Lagtastic said:


> I have been playing around with sweep picking for about 6 years. I feel that I have become quite proficient at many techniques, but there is always room for more leaning.
> 
> It's always nice to have an additional perspective from an experienced player.



Agreed. Even though I feel like I've already made it over the hill with sweeping, this video still blew my mind and kind of forced me to rethink what was possible since I am both a fingerpicker and a flatpicker:


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## noUser01 (May 17, 2013)

It depends on how good you are. No offense, but everyone wants a teacher who's awesome at what they're teaching because then they know this person really knows what they're talking about. So yeah, I'd like a guide depending on your skill level. 

Not trying to be a dick, it's just an obvious requirement. I wouldn't put out an alternate picking guide, that's for sure.  But yeah, I'd defo be interested man, and it sounds like you know what you're talking about and that you're at least quite experienced in the area.


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## vilk (May 17, 2013)

Is there really a necessity for a guide? You just do it slow over and over and then eventually you can do it fast... same as anything else... I practice sweeping too much, now I find it easier than a 'regular' type solo.


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## MontaraMike (May 17, 2013)

80H said:


> Interested in sweep picking? Suck, never tried it or can't find a good guide?



YES!

A Guide sounds awesome


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## Austin175 (May 17, 2013)

I would appreciate it a whole bunch man. I been watching alot an I mean alot of Rusty Cooley videos lately an man what I would do to sweep as good as him.


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## 80H (May 17, 2013)

ConnorGilks said:


> It depends on how good you are. No offense, but everyone wants a teacher who's awesome at what they're teaching because then they know this person really knows what they're talking about. So yeah, I'd like a guide depending on your skill level.
> 
> Not trying to be a dick, it's just an obvious requirement. I wouldn't put out an alternate picking guide, that's for sure.  But yeah, I'd defo be interested man, and it sounds like you know what you're talking about and that you're at least quite experienced in the area.



I fully understand what you mean. I've had teachers that weren't really worth the money or even remotely aware of what I was looking to learn. 

There are two things you need to consider: the first is that I'm pretty intense dude. I would rather be dead than mediocre. The second is that this guide is free. You don't have to pay, you don't have to contribute. If the people want it, it will be made. It will help them. To what extent it helps is a measure of what they have and haven't yet learned, their willingness to learn and whether or not my way of seeing things make sense to them. I can't promise that they're going to turn into gods after they read the guide, but it will definitely be easy to understand and apply. 

Probably 500-700 hours of my life spent making my sweeps better by now. How much of that is fretboard time is impossible for me to know. There was an entire year (2010-2011) where 30-90 minutes per day was spent on sweeping arpeggios from a fat ass stack of pictures that I printed out at my old college's library for 15 cents a page - every day except when I wasn't at home with a guitar. One year and six days later, I lost them in a backpack I forgot in the park. The date was printed on the first page. 



baron samedi said:


> Is there really a necessity for a guide? You just do it slow over and over and then eventually you can do it fast... same as anything else... I practice sweeping too much, now I find it easier than a 'regular' type solo.




If I payed 20 dollars for a lesson on anything and that was my teacher's explanation, I would walk away. No offense meant  A lot of people want more than a mild and general explanation of something that has an extreme amount of depth to it. 




-BACK IN A FEW HOURS, POSSIBLY INTOXICATED, GOTTA GET DOWN ON FRIDAY-


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## noUser01 (May 17, 2013)

Rad man, sounds awesome. I've always been pretty good at sweeping, but nothing amazing - slightly above your average metal guy at most. I've been really focused on improving my sweeping though to get some quality sweeps going, so yeah I'm down. Been learning the solo from ATB - To Carry You Away, been very good for me. 

I'd highly recommend doing some video demonstrations with the guide to really get the full benefit from it. Different angle of the picking hand etc.


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## vilk (May 18, 2013)

But that's exactly what I'm saying-- there is no depth to sweep picking. It's exactly what it looks and sounds like. I mean, unless you're just going to explain the theory behind it... but sweeps don't have to be in any sort of scale or mode...


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## Curt (May 18, 2013)

I like this idea, and would greatly appreciate it. 
I have tried to learn to sweep pick, but I still suck pretty badly at it.


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## Maniacal (May 18, 2013)

Pretty sure there are plenty of lessons covering this on youtube... all aspects of it


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## WaffleTheEpic (May 18, 2013)

Oh screw off you guys. There's obviously people that this would benefit. I've watched a ton of videos on YouTube and still can't do it myself. Even people that know how want to see this guide because they can add to it or benefit from things that they don't even know is possible through sweep picking. Like that video posted above, that sound was amazing and I'd love to incorporate it into things.


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## Hyacinth (May 18, 2013)

Even if you're not the most amazing, I'm sure you'll still have valuable information regarding sweeping. imo, this technique isn't that hard and once you get it down, it's down for good, you just have to start slow and work your way up, like any other technique. I would definitely be interested in a guide, as I think that any information is good information and maybe you thought of something that I never thought of, and I could add that to what I already know. DO IT.


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## inactive0909 (May 18, 2013)

I'm having a lot of trouble with sweep picking, a guide would be great!


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## chopeth (May 18, 2013)

I'm also into it and I'd like some directions from someone who really masters sweep picking.


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## Osorio (May 18, 2013)

Do it, man. Most of us that frequent this subsection of the forum are always down for some learning, so I'm sure a lot of people would benefit. A new and refresh perspective is always welcomed.


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## MontaraMike (May 18, 2013)

WaffleTheEpic said:


> Oh screw off you guys. There's obviously people that this would benefit. I've watched a ton of videos on YouTube and still can't do it myself. Even people that know how want to see this guide because they can add to it or benefit from things that they don't even know is possible through sweep picking. Like that video posted above, that sound was amazing and I'd love to incorporate it into things.




YES!! READ the other replies there are people wanting this guide. So if you have no interest in the guide or think there is no use for it, don't use the guide, no one is forcing you. 

This is for people wanting to know how to sweep or who have trouble sweep picking. If you already are good at sweep picking why would you discourage this helpful person from trying to help the rest of us?


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## Santuzzo (May 18, 2013)

I'd be very interested in your guide and I'd appreciate you offering it very much!


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## m3l-mrq3z (May 18, 2013)

Shameless self-plug


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## noUser01 (May 18, 2013)

WaffleTheEpic said:


> Oh screw off you guys. There's obviously people that this would benefit. I've watched a ton of videos on YouTube and still can't do it myself. Even people that know how want to see this guide because they can add to it or benefit from things that they don't even know is possible through sweep picking. Like that video posted above, that sound was amazing and I'd love to incorporate it into things.




No, _you_ screw off. No one is saying that people wouldn't learn from it, nor is anyone saying it wouldn't be helpful to people, and no one is discouraging him from doing it. The only points that were made were:

1) A sweep picking guide should be from someone who's quite good at it. The OP seems to think he is, and I believe him.
2) That there are already thousands of other resources for the same topic.

Neither of these reasons mean he shouldn't do it, if anything that second point will make the guide better, and will help the OP focus on the weakness of other guides and try to be better than those. No one is telling him it would be a stupid idea, no one is telling him he can't do it. Now relax.


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## Grimbold (May 19, 2013)

i'd be very much in support of a guide, i still have issues adding tapping to my sweeps, i'd also really like it if you could talk about how sweeps could be done in a jazz context, i do some stuff but i would be interested to see what you have to say


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## noUser01 (May 19, 2013)

Grimbold said:


> i'd be very much in support of a guide, i still have issues adding tapping to my sweeps, i'd also really like it if you could talk about how sweeps could be done in a jazz context, i do some stuff but i would be interested to see what you have to say



Same here. I don't do any of the tapped sweeps much but I'd like to have them available, they are tougher but with practice I'm sure they'll come.


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## lawizeg (May 20, 2013)

PLEASE. I can't sweep and am finding it super hard to actually get started. This would be so appreciated.


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## DeadWeight (May 20, 2013)

I wold love it! I can do 3 string sweeps at a good pace, but 4s and 5s just turn into mush after a couple of measures.


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## Ror (May 20, 2013)

I would be interested in this as well, as I've done some really basic practice, but I would love some direction in expanding to different shapes and also maybe an explanation of the "rolling bar" technique that I don't really understand.


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## noUser01 (May 20, 2013)

I'd also like to put in a request for a detailed section on rolls. Sweeps with rolls have always been very difficult for me, despite hours of practice and attention to detail.


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## 80H (May 20, 2013)

Writing up the guide starting today. I'm building a list of all of the fundamentals and then I'll be writing up the A->B->C->D->etc->Z list and we're going to do this as linear as possible. I'm aiming for a 2 week crash-course with ~2 hours per day expected, but the course itself can be followed over 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, etc, depending on how much time the person has. 


The guide isn't going to be "this is how you do it, do this" because those guides are stupid. Muscle memory requires muscular conditioning, sleep, fine adjustments and recuperation time before the motor skills become comfortable, and there's no way to just tell someone to sweep pick and expect them to do it. 


Most of the difficulty doesn't actually come from sweep picking itself, but APPLIED sweep picking because of inside/outside transitions and rolls as mentioned above.



Rolls WILL be included -- they have to be -- there's just no way to hit a vertically adjacent note in a sweep at high speeds without them. Not sure how to incorporate them yet because the rolls need to be practiced independently, but I have an idea.


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## 80H (May 20, 2013)

Grimbold said:


> i'd be very much in support of a guide, i still have issues adding tapping to my sweeps, i'd also really like it if you could talk about how sweeps could be done in a jazz context, i do some stuff but i would be interested to see what you have to say



I'd like to keep this as stylistically neutral as possible. The technique itself is largely the same from metal to jazz, but pick choice, tone choice (cleans vs distortion/gain/both) and theory (sweeping dim & aug 7s vs. harmonic minor or phrygian dominant) do change a little bit of the application. If you learned a solid foundation, you can sweep in any style. Accuracy and clarity with sweeping is mostly the same as with anything else, but getting definition on clean notes without making them sound rushed requires a litttttttle bit of finesse. 


Sweep tapping will be in there.


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## stmenzel (May 20, 2013)

80H said:


> Interested in sweep picking? Suck, never tried it or can't find a good guide?
> 
> 
> I'm busy with another project now (see: my theory thread), but once I'm done, technical practice is next up, and sweep picking seems like a logical place to start since I've never really refined my sweeps the way that I'd like to. I know how to sweep and sweep well, but I did it in pieces because I could never find a guide that felt complete enough for what I wanted.
> ...



I'm definitely interested. I can sweep but I don't really use it for much except for just noodling so it doesn't get the attention it needs to be cleaned up real well.


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## 80H (May 24, 2013)

Foundation for the guide has been created. It will be a logical progression from very simple elements into what makes sweeping complex and why there's so much possibility available. Hopefully this will allow anyone that reads the guide to develop their own unique take on sweeping instead of just reading examples of exercises. 


In the next week I will be refining the guide, and I will apply it to myself in the beginning of June. Hopefully I will be ready to post the full guide around June 10th-June 14th, but I would also like to leave room to expand the guide once it's been finished. It will initially be as basic as possible to appeal to everyone, but I would also like to gradually include more information for people that want to keep exploring


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## Konfyouzd (May 24, 2013)

piggins411 said:


> I would. Specifically, it'd be nice if you could focus a little more on the muting aspect than some people do, especially in regard to the right hand (assuming you're playing with a right handed guitar). No one has EVER explained well enough for me to understand that part.


 
I use my wrist to mute. But you have to semi-anchor to do it the way I do. 8 strings have made me start anchoring more than I used to.

The rolling aspect of playing certain shapes is best understood by playing the patterns VERY slowly. Most ppl don't want to start off slowly... Running before they can crawl. That's people's #1 problem in learning to sweep.


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## 80H (May 24, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> I use my wrist to mute. But you have to semi-anchor to do it the way I do. 8 strings have made me start anchoring more than I used to.
> 
> The rolling aspect of playing certain shapes is best understood by playing the patterns VERY slowly. Most ppl don't want to start off slowly... Running before they can crawl. That's people's #1 problem in learning to sweep.



Definitely a problem, but I think most people can't get sweeping down because of a few factors rather than just the speed of their practice. How many people know to slightly change their pick angle when descending? How many people know how to incorporate alternate or economy picking when facing even/odd groups of notes? How many people know how to accentuate points of interest to keep the series of notes from sounding bland? 

Other than that I completely agree with you. Slowing down is definitely the best decision for getting better *faster*, but that's counter-intuitive. People want to develop their skills as quickly as possible, but I think that they don't realize that the fastest way to progress is to go slowly.


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## Maniacal (May 24, 2013)

Looks like we have the master of sweep picking in our presence, looking forward to the guide.


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## Konfyouzd (May 24, 2013)

80H said:


> Definitely a problem, but I think most people can't get sweeping down because of a few factors rather than just the speed of their practice. How many people know to slightly change their pick angle when descending? How many people know how to incorporate alternate or economy picking when facing even/odd groups of notes? How many people know how to accentuate points of interest to keep the series of notes from sounding bland?
> 
> Other than that I completely agree with you. Slowing down is definitely the best decision for getting better *faster*, but that's counter-intuitive. People want to develop their skills as quickly as possible, but I think that they don't realize that the fastest way to progress is to go slowly.


 
Hmm... Interesting points and it just goes to show how everyone views the topic slightly differently, I suppose. I--for one--have actually never consciously thought about these things until you brought them up.

It's really funny I found this thread today. I was just trying to teach a friend how to sweep certain patterns yesterday and all the things that everyone here wanting a guide has brought up are the same points he brought up as well so it's very likely that guide will work wonders for a lot of folks.

The first thing I noticed with him is that he said he couldn't do the rolling thing but getting him to do it slowly was pretty much not going to happen. I feel like sometimes when you tell a person to play something slowly to a metronome and increase the metronome systematically they take it to mean you're calling them a noob.


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## 80H (May 24, 2013)

Maniacal said:


> Looks like we have the master of sweep picking in our presence, looking forward to the guide.



Haha, not quite. I'm definitely pretty far out at sea here but my idea of what's possible always keeps me humble, because it all still feels very far out of reach. Every exercise leads to two more. It will never be finished. 



Konfyouzd said:


> Hmm... Interesting points and it just goes to show how everyone views the topic slightly differently, I suppose. I--for one--have actually never consciously thought about these things until you brought them up.
> 
> It's really funny I found this thread today. I was just trying to teach a friend how to sweep certain patterns yesterday and all the things that everyone here wanting a guide has brought up are the same points he brought up as well so it's very likely that guide will work wonders for a lot of folks.
> 
> The first thing I noticed with him is that he said he couldn't do the rolling thing but getting him to do it slowly was pretty much not going to happen. I feel like sometimes when you tell a person to play something slowly to a metronome and increase the metronome systematically they take it to mean you're calling them a noob.



The irony there is that by rejecting the advice of someone that's already conquered the skill, he _is_ being a noob. It took me a few years to really relax into the idea of practicing everything in slow motion, so I can kind of understand where he's coming from. The point where it really shifted towards going slow was when I started to enjoy slowing down time like some kind of wizard. The fact that I can convert 1/2 of a second to 10 seconds is fascinating to me and a skill that I appreciate very much. 

It's probably an ego thing - he doesn't want to believe that he has to scrub the floor. That's my best guess. 


And yeah, one of my worst problems is not realizing that I'm doing something that's important to my success. I was having a lot of problems with open-string pedal tones and pizzicato pulloffs (violin technique, learned from yngwie) because I didn't realize that the movement/backlash from the pulloff was making my string "bounce" a little more. 1-2mm of extra motion in the string is all it takes to ruin a pick attack when you're working efficiently. I was adjusting for most of the attacks, but I was totally stumped when I messed up. Took me like a week to finally figure it out which is a little embarrassing in hindsight


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## Konfyouzd (May 24, 2013)

You also mentioned something about economy picking and changing directions... Are you talking about things like this:

u d d d u u d d d u u d d d u u d d d u

------------------------------------------------------------15-18
--------------------------------------------14-17-------17-------
----------------------------12-15-------15-------15-18----------
------------11-14-------14-------14-17--------------------------
--------13--------13-16-----------------------------------------
-12-15-----------------------------------------------------------


That's typically how I pick sequences like that... I used to just hammer-on rather than starting each section with an upstroke, but either seems to work. 

Was curious what you meant about changing directions and economy picking the odd groups and what not...

EDIT: Okay... Well for some reason my formatting doesn't work when I try to line up the strokes with the tab, but I hope it still kinda makes sense? It always looks fine until I hit save then it all goes crazy...


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## 80H (May 24, 2013)

Looks perfect on my end and yeah, that's exactly what I meant. When I move into odd groups though and can't get an economy setup, I use inside picking pretty heavily. The only real downside is that it's easier to mess up, but sometimes it's also a little less efficient of a motion. 

For example, if you were to pick the 14th fret on your A string with alternate picking after the 3rd note in that series on the 13th fret, you'd end up with an upstroke that needs to transition into a downstroke on a lower string. Those are situations where I'd prefer an inside pick to changing the overall orientation of everything, but it did take me a lot of work before my inside picks were clean enough to have that luxury.


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## Konfyouzd (May 24, 2013)

Trooch said:


> ... sometimes I feel like I'm trapped inside my strings


 

Yup. I know what you mean!


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## 80H (May 27, 2013)

Broke ground on the guide. Got maybe 30-45 different concepts that are unorganized now and day 1 is mostly finished. Going to do days 1-14 and then polish them all up over the next few days. Estimated time for completion is June 14th or 15th


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## bey0ndreaz0n (May 27, 2013)

Have gotten a little more serious about sweeping in the last few months. I've made the best improvement ever since I backed the metronome off, so I think going slow really is the quickest way to go faster.

It's quite comforting reading all the posts in this thread, to know that you're not alone! It's taken me about 2 years to realise a lot of the intricate mechanics involved in this technique, and I feel I'm still only at surface level, this guide couldn't be more well timed, I'm looking forward to it!


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## in-pursuit (May 28, 2013)

I'm actually really looking forward to getting my hands on this and doing some serious practice for the first time in a few years. I've just recently been trying to put some time into economy picking and it's rekindled the flame a little bit.


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## stuglue (May 28, 2013)

Can I ask that your guide emphasises using correct rhythm for sweeping, I've seen a lot of players just learn a shape but they have no idea about the rhythm, I saw one guy learn a shape but it was neither triplets nor 16th notes. Lets have some consistency so that when practising with a click you can hear the rhythm. 

Also make sure that if showingan arpeggio as a sweep that its complete and not an octave and a half or missing a note to make it complete, again I've seen guys play a two octave arpeggio but only partially. If you are playing an arpeggio make sure the highest note is the same note as you started on. If its A major then the highest note will be A, don't stop when you get to the fifth and then descend.


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## Osorio (May 28, 2013)

stuglue said:


> Also make sure that if showingan arpeggio as a sweep that its complete and not an octave and a half or missing a note to make it complete, again I've seen guys play a two octave arpeggio but only partially. If you are playing an arpeggio make sure the highest note is the same note as you started on. If its A major then the highest note will be A, don't stop when you get to the fifth and then descend.



This may not be the best place, but I'm curious... Why? Is there a problem with not playing an arpeggio top to bottom or skipping a few notes here and there?


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## stuglue (May 28, 2013)

Remember this is a guide, he's promoting how to sweep correctly, may as well get beginners into the habit of playing the compete arpeggio. Its like learning scales, you wouldn't only learn the first 6 notes, you'd look to play it from octave to octave. 

Musically when applying this stuff, its up to you, but when learning make sure the full information is presented.


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## tedtan (May 28, 2013)

^ stuglue

In that case (playing the entire arpeggio) you'll have to play each and every note in the arp, and you'll end up with some 2 note per string groupings mixed in that will break up the sweeping. This intended to be a beginner's sweep picking guide, not a proper arpeggio guide, so I won't hold it against 80H if he leaves some notes out or even uses some chromatic shapes just to help people get the technique down. They can expand on what they sweep down the line.


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## Judge_Dredd (May 28, 2013)

I'm looking to learn some soloing techniques. So it would be really cool if you'd make a guide.


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## stuglue (May 28, 2013)

tedtan said:


> ^ stuglue
> 
> In that case (playing the entire arpeggio) you'll have to play each and every note in the arp, and you'll end up with some 2 note per string groupings mixed in that will break up the sweeping. This intended to be a beginner's sweep picking guide, not a proper arpeggio guide, so I won't hold it against 80H if he leaves some notes out or even uses some chromatic shapes just to help people get the technique down. They can expand on what they sweep down the line.



Ok, but wouldn't it be more beneficial to tackle multiple facets of sweeping and arpeggios together? You get to practice the technique and learn arpeggios as well.


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## ncfiala (May 28, 2013)

stuglue said:


> Ok, but wouldn't it be more beneficial to tackle multiple facets of sweeping and arpeggios together? You get to practice the technique and learn arpeggios as well.


 
The problem with that is that one probably uses different shapes for different techniques. I use very different shapes for the same arpeggio depending on if I'm picking but not sweeping, sweeping, or two-handed tapping.

Honestly, I think guides like this do more harm than good. You spoonfeed someone some "shapes" and 90% of the people who look at the guide just memorize the shapes. They have no idea how to figure out the shape, why the arpeggio is named the way it is, what the intervals of the arpeggio are, or how to apply the arpeggio. People should learn how to construct their own shapes based on what makes the most sense to their brain and their fingers. It's not hard. I for one probably use different sweeping shapes than most people.

The technique part of such a guide could have value to some people though since there are many subtleties involved.


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## 80H (May 29, 2013)

stuglue said:


> Can I ask that your guide emphasises using correct rhythm for sweeping, I've seen a lot of players just learn a shape but they have no idea about the rhythm, I saw one guy learn a shape but it was neither triplets nor 16th notes. Lets have some consistency so that when practising with a click you can hear the rhythm.
> 
> Also make sure that if showingan arpeggio as a sweep that its complete and not an octave and a half or missing a note to make it complete, again I've seen guys play a two octave arpeggio but only partially. If you are playing an arpeggio make sure the highest note is the same note as you started on. If its A major then the highest note will be A, don't stop when you get to the fifth and then descend.




Creating music only has anything to do with specific arpeggios when you want a specific arpeggio. I can tell someone the notes of an Am9 arpeggio in a specific order, but it doesn't matter if that's not what they want to play or is even the fastest or most efficient way to learn. The goal is to teach them how to figure these things out themselves. I also have to account for people that know their theory and people that don't. 

Sweeping doesn't have anything to do with a particular rhythm. It is very versatile and can be used in a ton of different rhythmic contexts. I will include rhythm, but there is no way to zero in on a "correct" rhythm, as you put it. 



venneer said:


> This may not be the best place, but I'm curious... Why? Is there a problem with not playing an arpeggio top to bottom or skipping a few notes here and there?



No. There is no problem with teaching people different approaches to sweeping. Sweeping itself is a technical approach and the theory is applied -AFTER- the technique is understood. 



stuglue said:


> Remember this is a guide, he's promoting how to sweep correctly, may as well get beginners into the habit of playing the compete arpeggio. Its like learning scales, you wouldn't only learn the first 6 notes, you'd look to play it from octave to octave.
> 
> Musically when applying this stuff, its up to you, but when learning make sure the full information is presented.




Nobody is going to remember the positions of an excess of about 90 notes on their first go or even their first day. If they do, they probably don't need a guide to figure all this stuff out. People need individual pieces in a logical and linear progression that they can follow on their own time and pace. You have to work with what -THEY- know and understand, not with what -YOU- know and understand. 





tedtan said:


> ^ stuglue
> 
> In that case (playing the entire arpeggio) you'll have to play each and every note in the arp, and you'll end up with some 2 note per string groupings mixed in that will break up the sweeping. This intended to be a beginner's sweep picking guide, not a proper arpeggio guide, so I won't hold it against 80H if he leaves some notes out or even uses some chromatic shapes just to help people get the technique down. They can expand on what they sweep down the line.



Exactly. In application, sweeping doesn't purely apply to arpeggios. Sometimes you want to throw a different interval into an arpeggio, and then what? Should I make another guide on adding intervals into complex arpeggios? And then what about slides and hammers and pulloffs and harmonics? Should I devote 10 hours of practice to using a b3 versus a 3 in various applications?

It's easy to say "this needs more," but you're opening pandora's box. The line has to be drawn somewhere or else the book will go on forever.



Judge_Dredd said:


> I'm looking to learn some soloing techniques. So it would be really cool if you'd make a guide.




you got it dude (` - `)b




stuglue said:


> Ok, but wouldn't it be more beneficial to tackle multiple facets of sweeping and arpeggios together? You get to practice the technique and learn arpeggios as well.



Yeah it would. The problem with that, though, is that we have a lot of different people here with different motivations for playing. I can't cater to anyone without alienating someone else, so I have to be as broad and general as I can without selling anyone short. It's a tightrope. 



ncfiala said:


> The problem with that is that one probably uses different shapes for different techniques. I use very different shapes for the same arpeggio depending on if I'm picking but not sweeping, sweeping, or two-handed tapping.
> 
> Honestly, I think guides like this do more harm than good. You spoonfeed someone some "shapes" and 90% of the people who look at the guide just memorize the shapes. They have no idea how to figure out the shape, why the arpeggio is named the way it is, what the intervals of the arpeggio are, or how to apply the arpeggio. People should learn how to construct their own shapes based on what makes the most sense to their brain and their fingers. It's not hard. I for one probably use different sweeping shapes than most people.
> 
> The technique part of such a guide could have value to some people though since there are many subtleties involved.




The whole point of this guide is to teach people how to construct and apply their own shapes from the perspective of the technique.


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## 80H (May 29, 2013)

in-pursuit said:


> I'm actually really looking forward to getting my hands on this and doing some serious practice for the first time in a few years. I've just recently been trying to put some time into economy picking and it's rekindled the flame a little bit.



I keep the flame alive by always having way more to practice than I have time for lol. At this point it's an intentional part of my growth.


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## tedtan (May 29, 2013)

Care to elaborate on how you use the lack of sufficient time to practice everything you want to practice as a tool to spur growth, 80H?


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## stuglue (May 29, 2013)

ncfiala said:


> The problem with that is that one probably uses different shapes for different techniques. I use very different shapes for the same arpeggio depending on if I'm picking but not sweeping, sweeping, or two-handed tapping.
> 
> Honestly, I think guides like this do more harm than good. You spoonfeed someone some "shapes" and 90% of the people who look at the guide just memorize the shapes. They have no idea how to figure out the shape, why the arpeggio is named the way it is, what the intervals of the arpeggio are, or how to apply the arpeggio. People should learn how to construct their own shapes based on what makes the most sense to their brain and their fingers. It's not hard. I for one probably use different sweeping shapes than most people.
> 
> The technique part of such a guide could have value to some people though since there are many subtleties involved.


Yeah but that's outside of the OPs guide, he's not here to teach the theoretical side. I don't have a problem with people learning the shapes. I guess the OP could state at the start that wherever you can find the triad notes you can play an arpeggio. That way learners figure positions out for themselves. That's how I did and I think its beneficial to learn as many different fingerings as you can because it gets you out of a rut of playing the same shapes and knowing multiple fingerings makes it easier to transition from one "lick" into the next.


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## 80H (May 29, 2013)

tedtan said:


> Care to elaborate on how you use the lack of sufficient time to practice everything you want to practice as a tool to spur growth, 80H?




Well, I'm going to die eventually. There's never going to be enough time for all of it anyways. From that perspective, you can either quit or accept the size of it all and chip away at the skill. 

At the end of the day, I'm still going to want to make music and I probably will tomorrow to. I'd rather just pick whatever and practice it today than waste 2 weeks that I could've used to grow. I love linear practice routines though which is why I do things like this guide or the theory challenge I'm doing right now (which I need to update)!


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## Kaickul (Jun 13, 2013)

In for this, would love you to share your guide.


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## 80H (Jun 14, 2013)

UPDATE: TEASER. READ THE WHOLE THING. ONLY BABIES AND WEAK PEOPLE DON'T READ


Got a bunch of stuff to include that hasn't been fully worked out yet. General idea of the guide is finished, I know what the over-arching goal is now. 


*---THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT---*

I'll cover this more in the guide itself. As a primer though, there's TOO MUCH STUFF to cover. Slipped down the rabbit hole with this one. 

What I did was start analyzing and studying and looking up guides and blah blah blah blah blah, but what I REALIZED---- is that sweep picking is a reflection of the ability to learn a specific sweep shape with the cognizance (mental, skillful awareness) to use it musically and mix it fluidly with other technical skills. 

The implications of it are beautiful. There's horizontal movement, vertical movement, diagonal movement, ascension, descension, incorporation (hammers, slides, harmonics, pull offs, tapping), rhythmic applications, melodic applications, weird crazy tosin abasi implications and a lot more that aren't coming to me but most likely exist CAUSE I CANT REMEMBER EVERYTHING DAMMIT, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM ME


Ok, point being. The guide is going to be a primer on __LEARNING__ to sweep in a timely and accurate manner. It will also include how to identify possible sweeps within whatever scale by way of simple logic and a resource list of the guides that I've personally used to get my results (which I am damn STOKED with, even in just these last few weeks).




Any ideas on what you guys want next? I'm happy with my sweeps, happy with how quickly I'm learning them and there's nothing more that I can do at this very moment other than keep practicing. With that said, I want to keep running challenges with myself and writing a guide for an audience to keep myself honest and motivated. If there's another topic you want a guide on, lemme know. If I can do it and NEED to do it, I will. 



To the future wooo0w0owoeoeoeowoewoe0owe
-Adam


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## penningmic (Jun 15, 2013)

A guide would be nice just so I don't have to lay it out for myself by hand......again... But the other thing that would be cool is to use inversion patterns with your right hand over the chord you are already doing, haven't tried it but worth a shot


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## xzyryabx (Jun 15, 2013)

Yes please!!


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## Quitty (Jun 18, 2013)

Sounds good.

And when you go 'wooo0w0owoeoeoeowoewoe0owe' on our asses, you remind me of Slipperman (the recording distorted guitars from hell dude) - which is great!


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## necronile (Jun 19, 2013)

YUP
DO EEET NAU PLIZ!


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## 80H (Jun 25, 2013)

It's on its way, I promise. Way past my self-set deadline, but I also am at war with my habitual laziness and have to do non-guitar things to make money (which sucks, I need to change that). 


Going to try and keep it minimalistic without missing anything. It's so much harder to write a great explanation in 30 words than it is to write an ok explanation in 300, but I think it's more valuable in the long run to have small clips of wisdom than a brain full of words


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## Chuck (Jun 25, 2013)

Can't wait for this dude!


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## Ror (Jun 26, 2013)

A question that has nothing to do with actually sweeping: how is this guide going to be formatted? Will it mostly be text, or diagrams with an explanation, or what?


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## 80H (Jun 26, 2013)

Ror said:


> A question that has nothing to do with actually sweeping: how is this guide going to be formatted? Will it mostly be text, or diagrams with an explanation, or what?



Foundations (general guidelines), Integration (application and technical expansion) and links to a few helpful resources. I'll be using my rusty photoshop skills to throw a few things together too but it's been real busy around these parts lately


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## 80H (Jul 4, 2013)

Update: I'm late as hell, sorry! *WILL BE COMPLETED WITHIN THE NEXT 72 HOURS!* I'm putting the finishing touches on and I would like to do an editing pass again before I post it. I have most of the night to work with, but it is the fourth, so I might get whisked away at any time. I'll have most of tomorrow morning and early afternoon to myself though.


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## necronile (Jul 5, 2013)

80H said:


> Update: I'm late as hell, sorry! *WILL BE COMPLETED WITHIN THE NEXT 72 HOURS!* I'm putting the finishing touches on and I would like to do an editing pass again before I post it. I have most of the night to work with, but it is the fourth, so I might get whisked away at any time. I'll have most of tomorrow morning and early afternoon to myself though.



I dont know if you said it already,but I wanted to ask
if you gonna upload it here and it will be in the sticky or you will do a PDF ?


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## 80H (Jul 5, 2013)

necronile said:


> I dont know if you said it already,but I wanted to ask
> if you gonna upload it here and it will be in the sticky or you will do a PDF ?



It will be text/image/link based and will be here...I could definitely convert it to a PDF also since that's pretty easy


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## inactive0909 (Jul 8, 2013)

Have you completed the guide? Can't wait!!!!


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## crg123 (Jul 8, 2013)

Thanks for doing this man its the one technique I could never quite get down after 10
years of playing I'm sad to say....


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## 80H (Jul 8, 2013)

It's done. I'll be posting it up later tonight.


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## Shaft (Jul 8, 2013)

Yeehaw! Excited to check this out.


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## Kaickul (Jul 8, 2013)

80H said:


> It's done. I'll be posting it up later tonight.



Ohhhhh YES!


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## Hollowway (Jul 8, 2013)

Awesome! I just now looked in this thread, because I figured my sweeping was fine, then I realized I don't even know what inside picking and rolling is! Maybe I'm doing them already, I have no idea, but I'm definitely looking forward to the guide.


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## 80H (Jul 9, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Awesome! I just now looked in this thread, because I figured my sweeping was fine, then I realized I don't even know what inside picking and rolling is! Maybe I'm doing them already, I have no idea, but I'm definitely looking forward to the guide.



Haha, neither of these have anything to do with sweep picking other than the fact that they are very useful in certain situations as a complement to sweep picking. I don't think anyone makes a career out of playing nothing but unbroken sweeps (that would be pretty intense though), so there's always gonna be _something_ to learn. 

I've gotta leave home for a few hours to help out one of my very close friends, so I'll either be able to post the completed version up around 2 to 4 A.M. (pacific) when I get back or at the crack of dawn tomorrow as I kind of got carried away with editing and revising and still need to make some minor adjustments before I'm completely satisfied with it. Either way it's coming up real soon, my apologies for the extra delay.

Perfectionism is a bitch


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## MikeDojcsak (Jul 10, 2013)

I started reading this thread at the perfect time! I'm really excited to dedicate some serious time to this!


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## JustMac (Jul 10, 2013)

This should be fantastic, can't wait!

80H, have you got any vids of you playing on Youtube, you seriously must be a Petrucci/Waggoner-level player with chops like that, it would be epic to see you in action, especially after becoming a theory wizard, seeing it all in action would be pretty awe-inspiring


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## 80H (Jul 11, 2013)

JustMac said:


> This should be fantastic, can't wait!
> 
> 80H, have you got any vids of you playing on Youtube, you seriously must be a Petrucci/Waggoner-level player with chops like that, it would be epic to see you in action, especially after becoming a theory wizard, seeing it all in action would be pretty awe-inspiring




Youtube vids will be there eventually  I'm stuck working my ass off for the sake of rent/food/gas/bills for the time being now though, but not for long if I can do anything about it. I appreciate the **** out of the support man, thank you. Helps remind me what all this work is for in the first place. 


Hang tight everybody. Didn't know it was going to be delayed this long. A combination of overload with slave job work and a poorly timed CTRL+X set me back a ways and there's still a little bit of post editing and refinement to go. I want to say for certain that it will be up tomorrow evening but my mouth is already full of foot so I'm just going to keep doing the best I can and see where that leads me.


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## wespaul (Jul 11, 2013)

CTRL + X?


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## necronile (Jul 12, 2013)

wespaul said:


> CTRL + X?



X as any button C or V


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## Ror (Jul 12, 2013)

necronile said:


> X as any button C or V



I think he meant X as in actually X


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## tedtan (Jul 12, 2013)

It's a keyboard shortcut. In Windows, CTRL+X cuts the selected text/graphics to the clipboard. If you don't paste it somewhere else, it's essentially deleted from the document.

CTRL+C copies the selected text/graphics
CTRL+V pastes the copied/cut text/graphics.


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## porchy (Jul 12, 2013)

CTRL + Z always fixes CTRL + X...


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## in-pursuit (Jul 14, 2013)




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## alexpwalsh (Jul 14, 2013)

Ctrl+X is cut.... Ctrl+c is copy, Ctrl-X is cut, Ctrl+V is paste..... And here's the important one.... Ctrl+Z is UNDO... So if you cut something... Just paste it again... Or undo it....


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## Fredrish (Jul 14, 2013)

I'd love to see the lesson as well. One can never practice and refine one's sweep picking enough, I guess.


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## 80H (Jul 14, 2013)

alexpwalsh said:


> Ctrl+X is cut.... Ctrl+c is copy, Ctrl-X is cut, Ctrl+V is paste..... And here's the important one.... Ctrl+Z is UNDO... So if you cut something... Just paste it again... Or undo it....




I would like to introduce you to my friend, Mr. Automatic Windows Updates. Say hi Auto! Wave to the nice people! 

Finally found out how to disable it at least, so there's that. When I recovered the doc, it was recovered without the section that I copied and my clipboard was cleared. I spent a good 4 minutes with my hand on my face in total silence.

Anyways, it's pretty much finished again. Haven't been home in a few days, today is my day off and I'm about to ingest a bunch of caffeine. Probably only have 1,000 words and a good few pictures to go, so it's a smooth ride followed by some mild editing.


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## JEngelking (Jul 14, 2013)

Late to the party here, but after reading through this I'm looking forward to the guide. Been wanting to clean up my playing lately + be a better lead player, so this would be very much appreciated.


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## metalmonster (Jul 14, 2013)

i want !


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## alexpwalsh (Jul 15, 2013)

80H said:


> I would like to introduce you to my friend, Mr. Automatic Windows Updates. Say hi Auto! Wave to the nice people!
> 
> Finally found out how to disable it at least, so there's that. When I recovered the doc, it was recovered without the section that I copied and my clipboard was cleared. I spent a good 4 minutes with my hand on my face in total silence.
> 
> Anyways, it's pretty much finished again. Haven't been home in a few days, today is my day off and I'm about to ingest a bunch of caffeine. Probably only have 1,000 words and a good few pictures to go, so it's a smooth ride followed by some mild editing.



That is so brutal - I've had that happen to me before writing a term paper back in university.... SO bad.... and I completely understand the face-palm moment. Those autosaves are pointless - cause they never save as much as you'd like... but every now and again they come in handy. 

SO looking forward to your guide - I'm stuck on what to study next and your guide may prove to be just the right thing....


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## sand man (Jul 15, 2013)

80H said:


> Interested in sweep picking? Suck, never tried it or can't find a good guide?
> 
> 
> I'm busy with another project now (see: my theory thread), but once I'm done, technical practice is next up, and sweep picking seems like a logical place to start since I've never really refined my sweeps the way that I'd like to. I know how to sweep and sweep well, but I did it in pieces because I could never find a guide that felt complete enough for what I wanted.
> ...


 
 Sorry there is no emticons with wall facing the other side 
yes please waiting eagerly in fact If I dont see thirty response here in 2 day I may create 30 ID and come back here to post it to fill the QUOTA  Absolute beginner currently concentratinig on the super basics of theories and scales and mode and alt picking ( improving better than expected ) SWEEP picking ( really really frustrating stuff to practice )in three days I got just one 6 note run sweep pick on 1 ,2 3 rd strings and at really slow 80 bpm qtr notes.


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## JustMac (Jul 16, 2013)

C'moooon 80, goddammit!  We'll fix the typo's ourselves, just upload it already 

what the...I just tried it for the first time in about 2 weeks (focusing on legato stuff recently) struggling even playing the Selkies sweeps, I could play it note for note about a month ago, what the flip? I thought sweeping was like riding a bike, but, my hand has turned to sloppy mush. WTF -_-


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## Hollowway (Jul 18, 2013)

Yeah, me too - don't sweat the little stuff like typos, etc. I'll take it however I can get it! Thanks!


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## inactive0909 (Jul 18, 2013)

Have been waiting a month for this guide - super stoked! Please upload the guide, I'm sure no one minds a few typos.


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## 80H (Jul 18, 2013)

Haha, sorry guys, promise I didn't forget about you. It's coming. Patience.


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## JustMac (Jul 18, 2013)

80 you tease you....


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## 80H (Jul 18, 2013)

Tonight..? Could it be..?


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## 80H (Jul 19, 2013)

A wild thread appears! 
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/mu...-wax-off-fundamental-guide-sweep-picking.html


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## jokerpanda (Jan 21, 2014)

thanks man


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## 80H (Jan 21, 2014)

jokerpanda said:


> thanks man



de nada mis hermano


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## metalmonster (Jan 21, 2014)

What really helped me through sweep picking was to practise it on scale arpeggios. 

For instance you take the C major scale : 
C D E F G A B 

You make chords out of these notes : 
C7M Dm Em F7M Am Bm5b

(you can also see that these chords kinda "symbolize" our seven modes, eg C7M = major 3rd, standard 5th and major 7th. In a convenient way : one string = one of the most important notes of the mode). 

I'm getting deeper on this : 

we got : 

-----
-5--
-4--
-5--
-3--
----

for C7M 

We can add a few notes here and there : 

--------------------3---7----3---- (then it goes the other way, same notes) 
-----------------5---
-------------4--
---------5--
--3--7--
-----

I simply added the major 3rd after the fundamental, added on the E string the 5th and the 7th and we got a badass arpeggio shape. 

Now i do the same for the 6 next chords (i'm letting you figure out these. Because what i want you to do is to think on "how to build arpeggios" instead of just playing shapes, this is an important step. Think twice about "what is this note ? 3rd, 5th, 7th, fundamental, 11# or whatever ?" )

So now we got 7 "shapes" to practise. A little goes a long way, start slow. 

That's for which arpeggios to play -they sound badass- now let's check some technique. 

I really like to use my pick parallel to the strings while sweeping, i also like to mute some of the strings with my right hand. I mute gently, so it's only to keep my sweeps clean and tidy. 

Also it's important to notice (at least in the way i sweep) that i use my LH fingers to mute the notes, so they're very "staccato". Especially when starting to sweep. I try to play as "staccato" as possible while i practise. I like to do this, at least. Now i'm trying to play all these notes very precisely tied together so it sounds like this : "blublublublu" instead of "pluck pluck pluck pluck" while maintaining precision in my playing. Precision is everything. Like i said, start slow, because you want slow'n'clean at first. You'll get to a point where you sweep like a badass in 6 months out of daily practise (then, there will be TONS to learn and soon you'll realize you're just starting out). 

Great exercise is to play 4 notes of your sweep, then go back 3 notes, then play again 4 notes so it kinda looks like these spanish processions where people walk 2 steps, go back one step (it's a way to mess with any demon that wold otherwise follow them. At least that's what i've been told) then walk two steps again ... 

Another great way to improve your practise is to play the notes twice. You can try that alternate-picking style, or by going "up-up" on each note if your sweep goes in the direction of the treble (and same when going back to the low notes). 

Also, i love to play : 
chord
arpeggio shape 
scale
change mode
chord
arpeggio shape
scale

It goes a long way. Plus, the scale and chord and arpeggio look all a lot of the same. 

Now what you can do is add more notes. For instance, i adore adding the 9th (or 2nd) to my arpeggios, and chords. 

And then that's what i like, and how i like to practise. And i would love your feedback and suggestions, because that's my way to do this, but i want other opinions to enrich my practise.


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## 80H (Jan 21, 2014)

metalmonster said:


> What really helped me through sweep picking was to practise it on scale arpeggios.
> 
> For instance you take the C major scale :
> C D E F G A B
> ...




Imagine 10 valid, yet parallel posts that are near identical to your own. Something 10 different people would have tried, explained, and still been right without being complete. 

My practice sessions are the combination of those 10 perspectives, 15 perspectives...etc. I do not impose any limitations, favor any notes, push for any specific style or focus on one approach. Each one is connected to the last. For example, yesterday, I heavily focused on my middle and ring finger and note definition with the two when used sequentially. How might 10 different people approach the goal of improved definition with those 2 fingers? Who's the oddball, and what were they thinking? Who's the everyman, and what was he thinking? Would a girl/woman do it differently? Why does that matter? etc. Most of my general practice is an answer to a question, and specific practice is for music.


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## metalmonster (Jan 21, 2014)

haha, seems like we are tuned to the same note here  It's exactly my approach to practise in general. I try to get ideas as broad as possible... 

... and i truly dig the way you've put that into short, relevant, super-fundamental questions. I might start to meditate on these, apply these questions to what i do, play, practise, and teach, but as well think about it in the field of life. There is a lot of questions i have to ask that go unanswered (or in an incomplete yet valid way).


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## 80H (Jan 21, 2014)

metalmonster said:


> haha, seems like we are tuned to the same note here  It's exactly my approach to practise in general. I try to get ideas as broad as possible...
> 
> ... and i truly dig the way you've put that into short, relevant, super-fundamental questions. I might start to meditate on these, apply these questions to what i do, play, practise, and teach, but as well think about it in the field of life. There is a lot of questions i have to ask that go unanswered (or in an incomplete yet valid way).




Thanks man  Always good to find a fellow open mind. I was fortunate enough to learn that a good question is the only way to find a good answer. Any other way is just an accident. Finding the right questions has become more of a lifestyle for me now rather than an approach to guitar, and it's something that has improved my life more than any new set of strings or guitar pick ever have. I recommend it like I would recommend clean water. 


As for your meditation, the question I suggest that you start with is "_What is the value of a question?_" It will lead to profound epiphanies. What's more is that, if you have reasons to view questions as the source of answers, you're going to naturally ask them to yourself without even noticing. If you start with the questions that give way to asking questions, your skills *have* to improve by virtue of repetition, because questions themselves have become the question. And when they're difficult to answer, remember that it's pointing out a weakness or lack in your mind, and the process of finding an answer will produce its own benefits, just like overcoming any other challenge would. And just in case, for the sake of sanity, remember that it isn't your responsibility to find the answer. It's just a choice and a way forward.


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## metalmonster (Jan 23, 2014)

> Thanks man Always good to find a fellow open mind. I was fortunate enough to learn that a good question is the only way to find a good answer. Any other way is just an accident. Finding the right questions has become more of a lifestyle for me now rather than an approach to guitar, and it's something that has improved my life more than any new set of strings or guitar pick ever have. I recommend it like I would recommend clean water.


Woah ... i mean, really. If we don't look in the right direction, we can't see what we're looking for ... and therefore ... if we ask the right questions, we might get some answers. 

Reminds me of the old saying "knowledge speaks, wisdom listens" (applied to music, this sounds super-deep, too. And reminds me i have to rewatch the workshop by victor wooten i've posted on the forum) . 


> As for your meditation, the question I suggest that you start with is "What is the value of a question?" It will lead to profound epiphanies. What's more is that, if you have reasons to view questions as the source of answers, you're going to naturally ask them to yourself without even noticing. If you start with the questions that give way to asking questions, your skills have to improve by virtue of repetition, because questions themselves have become the question. And when they're difficult to answer, remember that it's pointing out a weakness or lack in your mind, and the process of finding an answer will produce its own benefits, just like overcoming any other challenge would. And just in case, for the sake of sanity, remember that it isn't your responsibility to find the answer. It's just a choice and a way forward.


Really nice ... and true. I know it's true, i mean, i have to try'n'get better at formulating questions. Perhaps one of the questions would be, which question to ask. 

And yeah, sometimes it may be "an unanswered question" (not to quote one song title i desperately need to put music on, then write it on paper, and forget it, forever  ).


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