# Steinberger ZT3 vs. GM4 or GM7



## CrossingTheEventHorizon (Apr 26, 2011)

So I have been wanting a Steinberger for quite some time. Recently I came across a potential deal to get a musicyo steinberger gm4s in what seems like incredible condition. I have never been lucky enough to play a zt3 or any gm guitars and am considering if it would be better to get a zt3 new or used and just stick some emgs in it or if I should just get a gm with an s strem (the transtrems have proven hard to come across). What are your opinions? how does the zt3 compare to the original and musicyo gm series steinbergers? also how does the transtrem on the zt3 compare to the original trantrem as well as the s seres bridge? thanks as always for your input!


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## Be_eM (Apr 26, 2011)

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> So I have been wanting a Steinberger for quite some time.  What are your opinions?




Arrrrrgh and that's exactly the reason why you guys always miss the deals. Too much asking at the wrong time, too much uncertainty of what you want.

The ZT3 is a current guitar, available in quite a couple of shops. You may get one later, if desired. A GM is a guitar last sold in 2008. 

You can't really compare those two guitars, they are both great in their own way. They feel different, they sound different, and one of them is available in decreasing numbers. You can't tell if you will ever have the chance to test drive a GM, they usually won't show up in shops. Just on ebay and rarely on other places.

If you get the GM now, you still have several options:



sell it again, if you don't like it. Shouldn't be a problem
keep it, and buy a TransTrem 2 later, if you really think you need it. Its no problem to replace the ST by the TT, routing and drill pattern is identical. Sell the ST, which pays at least half of the TT.


Bernd


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## yingmin (Apr 26, 2011)

Buy the God damn GM, or I'll buy it just to spite you.


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## B-lebs (Apr 26, 2011)

If Vingmin doesn't get it, it'll be in my hands. Get it; worst case, you sell it.


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## Be_eM (Apr 26, 2011)

Gentlemen,

just to remind you of a well known British tradition:









Bernd


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## B-lebs (Apr 26, 2011)

I hope you remember some American traditions; we see it, we take it 





(just kidding )


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## Be_eM (Apr 26, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> I hope you remember some American traditions; we see it, we take it
> 
> (just kidding )




Oh, I should have remembered that, thanks for reminding me. However, Austria is about 2 hours away from here beat this 

Bernd


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## B-lebs (Apr 26, 2011)

I couldn't even afford a flight to Austria, let alone the guitar .

You win.... For now!


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## Be_eM (Apr 26, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> You win.... For now!




Actually I'm not eager to win. It's really not a lack of GMs driving me. I told the seller I'll wait until CTEH has made his decision. And if he doesn't want it, I know somebody else who asked me for a MY GM. I'd wait for his decision too. And THEN I'd take it, just to know the guitar in good hands 

Bernd


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## B-lebs (Apr 26, 2011)

Be_eM said:


> And THEN I'd take it, just to know the guitar in good hands
> 
> Bernd


If you ever want to unload the....burden... of it, I'll be here to take care of it 
Just for the guitar's sake.


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## Be_eM (Apr 26, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> If you ever want to unload the....burden... of it, I'll be here to take care of it
> Just for the guitar's sake.




A truly honorable act. I'll think of you when I start feeling the burden. Maybe it already has started showing symptoms like posting links to desirable and available GMs ?



Bernd


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## B-lebs (Apr 26, 2011)

Well, if you ever want to get rid of a 'Berger, I'd be fine taking the Redwood one..or the flame top... or the burl GS... or the... uh... it's like looking into a giant candy shop! I cant decide!


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## Be_eM (Apr 28, 2011)

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> Recently I came across a potential deal to get a musicyo steinberger gm4s in what seems like incredible condition



 twiddling thumbs  and four days later the decision is twiddling thumbs ??

Bernd (just wondering)


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon (Apr 28, 2011)

Be_eM said:


> twiddling thumbs  and four days later the decision is twiddling thumbs ??
> 
> Bernd (just wondering)



Hey sorry man. The seller and I have been in contact every day, first sending me some more pictures and then us working out all the details with shipping and such because shipping it UPS would cost over 400 euros. However, I think we have worked out something through the normal postal service.


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## Be_eM (Apr 29, 2011)

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> because shipping it UPS would cost over 400 euros. However, I think we have worked out something through the normal postal service.




OK, thanks for the update. Yes, UPS is pretty expensive (also in the other direction), so the normal postal service is what I'd use, too. So you finally take the blue beauty?

Bernd


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon (Apr 30, 2011)

Not only am I going to take the gorgeous blue gm4s but I may also get a gm7sa in mint condition for a ridiculous price  I have gotten pretty good at stalking websites all over the world that sell used instruments! sooo stoked!


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## B-lebs (May 1, 2011)

Also, slightly on topic, I've just caught a red GR4 which looks to be a mod platform (provided that the offers on Ebay don't get too high.)


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## Be_eM (May 1, 2011)

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> Not only am I going to take the gorgeous blue gm4s but I may also get a gm7sa in mint condition for a ridiculous price




Yesssss that's the way it works 



Bernd


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## Be_eM (May 1, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> Also, slightly on topic, I've just caught a red GR4 which looks to be a mod platform (provided that the offers on Ebay don't get too high.)




Didn't see that. What kind of mods are you thinking of?

Bernd


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## B-lebs (May 1, 2011)

Pickups, probably going to try out some other actives besides EMG's, maybe a roland GK-3 as well. Fixed Bridge, unless I like the R-trem. Strip the paint, and finish it either in a clear or tinted stain. That's all I have thought out as of now.

Ben


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## CrossingTheEventHorizon (May 1, 2011)

hey man if the gr on ebay doesn't work out I know a guy selling a perfectly mint condition gr4 in green. He is asking $1000 but you may be able to talk it down some. Let me know if you want his contact info before he puts it on ebay! here's a link to the guitar (ignore the sold sign, I just spoke with him moments ago so i'm sure he still has it)
Paramount Guitars: Instrument detail, Steinberger GR-4R


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## yingmin (May 2, 2011)

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> hey man if the gr on ebay doesn't work out I know a guy selling a perfectly mint condition gr4 in green. He is asking $1000 but you may be able to talk it down some. Let me know if you want his contact info before he puts it on ebay! here's a link to the guitar (ignore the sold sign, I just spoke with him moments ago so i'm sure he still has it)
> Paramount Guitars: Instrument detail, Steinberger GR-4R



Putting the R suffix on a GR model is redundant, since the R-trem was one of the defining features of those guitars.


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## Be_eM (May 2, 2011)

yingmin said:


> Putting the R suffix on a GR model is redundant, since the R-trem was one of the defining features of those guitars.



Although this makes perfect sense, the model designation "GR-4R" was created by Steinberger&#8230; see the attached ad (1998) 
This name also appears in the 1997 price list, and is used on the Music Yo product page. 

Bernd


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## B-lebs (May 2, 2011)

The "R" on the end denotes colour. R-Red, B-Blue, W-White, and no letter means black, in the original runs (pre Music-Yo!). They were commonly in red, and the ad shows a red one, so mistakingly labeling it GR4-R is understandable.


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## Be_eM (May 2, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> The "R" on the end denotes colour.




An obvious thought (and actually often used with GMs), but still apparently wrong 

Attached two pictures, a price list from 1997 and the MY product page. Both not talking about red guitars.

Bernd


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## B-lebs (May 2, 2011)

I guess when Music Yo! took over, it changed.


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## Be_eM (May 2, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> I guess when Music Yo! took over, it changed.




LOL talking about consistency 

Anyway, I can reward you with only half the points, because you obviously overlooked the missing hyphen. Don't try to sell me A GR4R for a GR-4R 

I'm still not convinced of the exact reason for this. 1997 is not yet Music Yo, it's the Nashville era. Not sure if there's really such a thing as logic behind it.

Bernd


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## B-lebs (May 2, 2011)

I guess when they added the hyphen, they changed the naming scheme. Maybe when they moved to Nashville, Gibson messed something else up?


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## Be_eM (May 2, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> I guess when they added the hyphen, they changed the naming scheme. Maybe when they moved to Nashville, Gibson messed something else up?




Seen from another point of view, they didn't mess it up, but fix it. The GR would be the only guitar, that has the Trem version within the first two letters. All other guitars, GM or GL, follow a different scheme. You can also find the statement "R is for Rock" in the old catalog. So naming it "GR-4R" without color, but with trem identification would only fit the other models.

Bernd


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## B-lebs (May 2, 2011)

True, I guess that makes sense.


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## yingmin (May 3, 2011)

Be_eM said:


> Seen from another point of view, they didn't mess it up, but fix it. The GR would be the only guitar, that has the Trem version within the first two letters. All other guitars, GM or GL, follow a different scheme. You can also find the statement "R is for Rock" in the old catalog. So naming it "GR-4R" without color, but with trem identification would only fit the other models.
> 
> Bernd


And post-MusicYo, they've boned the naming convention even further:

The basses still start with an X, but the guitars are no longer G. 
All of the guitars now have an F for fixed bridge, (which it seems to me they could have safely omitted, since their earliest models were hardtails as well, and carried no designation for the bridge style), except the ZT3, and more on that later. 
The Transcale models are ST versus the SS of the other models, despite being the same body style with a different scale length. Granted, there isn't really a precedent for naming of different scale lengths on the same body, but still...
The ZT3 pisses all over their naming conventions so badly that I almost want to make a second bulleted list within this bulleted list: It's the only model that begins with Z - which, as previously mentioned, should have been G like every other guitar prior to the Synapse line; the second letter, which indicates the body style, is T, but it's a completely different guitar than the GT series; the number 3 formerly indicated three single-coil pickups, whereas this has two humbuckers (this numbering convention is strangely intact in the Synapse line); despite having not only a Transtrem, but a redesigned Transtrem that is currently exclusive to this guitar, it has no bridge designation at the end.


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## B-lebs (May 3, 2011)

You have to consider that it is basically a new company now, the only things which have carried over from the 90's are the Spirits; no other model is a recreation, or reissue of a past model. Steinberger is basically a clean slate after having passed through so many hands.


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## yingmin (May 3, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> You have to consider that it is basically a new company now, the only things which have carried over from the 90's are the Spirits; no other model is a recreation, or reissue of a past model. Steinberger is basically a clean slate after having passed through so many hands.



They've really only changed hands once, though: when Ned sold the company to Gibson. If I remember correctly, the Synapse line, and possibly been the ZT3, were introduced while older models like the GM were still in production. If there was a gap, it wasn't very long.


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## Be_eM (May 19, 2011)

CrossingTheEventHorizon said:


> Not only am I going to take the gorgeous blue gm4s but




According to the website in Austria the blue GM is sold. To whom? Did you buy it? I really hope so

Bernd


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## Be_eM (May 20, 2011)

So I guess no answer is the answer. Rest assured that I've learned my lesson&#8230;

Bernd


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## yingmin (May 22, 2011)

Steinberger body and Steinberger neck | eBay

Looks like a Nashville body, flame top in amber burst finish, with a neck. Only $500, which is pretty awesome. If I could afford it right now, I'd definitely grab this and an XS-trem from JCustom.


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## B-lebs (May 22, 2011)

I'm waiting to bid on that! Very close, I finally have some money, and the urge for a project.


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## yingmin (May 23, 2011)

Totally meant to post that in the GM thread, but as long as someone's interested, then all is not lost.


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## Be_eM (May 23, 2011)

yingmin said:


> Looks like a Nashville body, flame top in amber burst finish, with a neck.




Not a Nashville, but a Music Yo body, and a Moses neck with the corresponding Music Yo serial number. A good start for a nice project, if the price doesn't go up to far 

Bernd


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## yingmin (May 23, 2011)

Be_eM said:


> Not a Nashville, but a Music Yo body, and a Moses neck with the corresponding Music Yo serial number. A good start for a nice project, if the price doesn't go up to far
> 
> Bernd



Damn it, I actually meant to say MusicYo that time.


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## Be_eM (May 23, 2011)

yingmin said:


> Damn it, I actually meant to say MusicYo that time.



I know 

Bernd


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## B-lebs (May 23, 2011)

It doesn't matter: Music-Yo, Nashville, Newburgh, Brooklyn. They're all 'Bergers so long as they've never been in Ed Roman's store.



Ben


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## XEN (May 23, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> It doesn't matter: Music-Yo, Nashville, Newburgh, Brooklyn. They're all 'Bergers so long as they've never been in Ed Roman's store.
> 
> 
> 
> Ben


LOL! Amen to that!!!
My GM1TA has never been touched by those grimy mitts.


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## yingmin (May 23, 2011)

B-lebs said:


> It doesn't matter: Music-Yo, Nashville, Newburgh, Brooklyn. They're all 'Bergers so long as they've never been in Ed Roman's store.
> 
> 
> 
> Ben



Yes, but they're stilldifferent guitars in certain respects. Having owned both a Newburgh and a MusicYo, I MUCH prefer the playability of the Yo.


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## B-lebs (May 23, 2011)

I'm sure. Hopefully, one day, I'll be qualified enough to judge which era I like more.


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