# Derek Taylor



## distressed_romeo (Jan 7, 2007)

I often think this guy's influence on modern guitar is extremely underappreciated...probably because his albums are such a bitch to find (if anyone has a copy of the Eniac Requiem album they'd be happy to sell then PM me...). So many of todays top guitarists admit to having stolen a lick or two from him though (Rusty Cooley immediately springs to mind).
Has anyone else heard his new band, Stara Zagora? Not bad in a radio rock sort of way, although I really miss the Crimeny days...

Discuss...


----------



## Jerich (Jan 7, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> I often think this guy's influence on modern guitar is extremely underappreciated...probably because his albums are such a bitch to find (if anyone has a copy of the Eniac Requiem album they'd be happy to sell then PM me...). So many of todays top guitarists admit to having stolen a lick or two from him though (Rusty Cooley immediately springs to mind).
> Has anyone else heard his new band, Stara Zagora? Not bad in a radio rock sort of way, although I really miss the Crimeny days...
> 
> Discuss...


I agree.....his legato was incredible before it was trendy...Crimeny was really good to Falling in on the Alice in Chains style vocals really worked for them. He and scott stines solo sharpnel Cd's are Killer....stara Zagora is really good at what they do...sort of like aeon spoke with all the Cynic guys tons of talent but missing soul....


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 7, 2007)

Not just his legato technique...his phrasing was really unique, and his tone and rhythm playing kicked all kinds of ass...

Santiago, didn't you study with DT at one point? What sort of stuff did you cover with him?


----------



## Aghorasilat (Jan 8, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Not just his legato technique...his phrasing was really unique, and his tone and rhythm playing kicked all kinds of ass...
> 
> Santiago, didn't you study with DT at one point? What sort of stuff did you cover with him?



I would talk on the phone with him and he would send me Licks and a cassette with him playing on them for $20 back in that day (94ish)

I studied with him that way, & Derryl Gabel and another cat who also rocks Paul Aldanee.

They all had almost the same methodology. DEREK IS AMAZING AND BACK THEN he smoked everyone with the exception of holdsworth ofcourse....


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 8, 2007)

Yeah, I've got some instructional stuff I ordered from Derryl that really helped me out (mainly ideas for playing over changes and 313-based licks). He's another insane player.

It's a real shame Derek doesn't seem too interested in lead playing anymore...


----------



## Jerich (Jan 8, 2007)

first off why are we talking of Derek who has shunned us the shred guitar guys" while we have Santiago in our mist's...Guys the new shred monster is Santiago the new Aghora is truely a shredders delight and the songs are Rrrrrrrrreally good not wanking like DT or too song progressive like Evergrey...more like Cynic but modern with a female singer....Santi........you my boy man...thanks again...you know me Santi I call's it as i hear it..........you da man.............
Dereks solo cd really is my favorite in a list of shrapnel cd's....


----------



## Aghorasilat (Jan 9, 2007)

Jerich said:


> first off why are we talking of Derek who has shunned us the shred guitar guys" while we have Santiago in our mist's...Guys the new shred monster is Santiago the new Aghora is truely a shredders delight and the songs are Rrrrrrrrreally good not wanking like DT or too song progressive like Evergrey...more like Cynic but modern with a female singer....Santi........you my boy man...thanks again...you know me Santi I call's it as i hear it..........you da man.............
> Dereks solo cd really is my favorite in a list of shrapnel cd's....



Jerich,

WOW I wasn't expecting that. Thank you man! I appreciate that especially coming from you.  I am very glad you enjoy the new album 

Mine (Formless) is sitting under a pyramid next to my bed collecting positive Orgone/Chi untill I am ready to hear it again and enjoy it for myself. It was such a piece of work that I decided to let the world enjoy it and stay detached from it for a bit until after the waves hit. 

For now I am focused on learning Cynic Focus (A.K.A BACH INVENTIONS FOR METAL) And getting Aghora Tight for upcoming Tours & Gigs. 

THANKS DUDE!

And yes for the record Derek Taylor is the MAN! I would not be playing like I do if it weren't for him. There is a solo he did on Crimeny that always gave me chills!
Derek in his peak = 

PEace and Jerich see you at NAMM.

Laters

Santiago


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 9, 2007)

That solo wouldn't be the one on 'Trust' would it? That one does rock very very much... 

Can't wait for my copy of 'Formless' to arrive...


----------



## Jerich (Jan 9, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> Jerich,
> 
> WOW I wasn't expecting that. Thank you man! I appreciate that especially coming from you.  I am very glad you enjoy the new album
> 
> ...


;;Come on..santi.....you know it brutha.....i got your back....your pickups were sent out today too....Might i also reccomend them to be placed in your AGILE....

Guys who are still stuck into the Cynic/Atheist..frame of mind simply must check out AT WAR WITHSELF http://www.glennsnelwar.com/ Glen is a great composer...........


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 9, 2007)

^Yeah, the At War With Self album is great.


----------



## Aghorasilat (Jan 9, 2007)

Jerich said:


> ;;Come on..santi.....you know it brutha.....i got your back....your pickups were sent out today too....Might i also reccomend them to be placed in your AGILE....
> 
> Guys who are still stuck into the Cynic/Atheist..frame of mind simply must check out AT WAR WITHSELF http://www.glennsnelwar.com/ Glen is a great composer...........




Jerich thanks MAN!!!! Your friendship and support is GREATLY appreciated!

That is awesome about the Pu's. I am gonna slap them in the AGILE. I love the intereceptor however tone was a bit weak when playing with whole band last night. It doesn't cut through that well cause it tends to be a Bassy guitar needs more mids and less bassy. Soloing leads are clear but needs more...uuuuMMMMPH and COJONES! I am dying to have an Interceptor in Mahogany that should clear up a lot of tone difficiencies I know Kurt mentioned that by the summer it may be available. But over all its my Fav axe right now. I am sure you Pick ups with greatly enhance the AXE .The blazes lack a little balls. 

YES GLENN SNELWAR RULES! I really dig his stuff and he is a very cool CAT. The demos he did with Sean Malone blow away the Gordian knot Album. Unfortunately Malone sort of limited what Glenn could do on that album. From what I understand he limited Mavidal as well on the GK II.
Glenn Rocks!

santiago



distressed_romeo said:


> That solo wouldn't be the one on 'Trust' would it? That one does rock very very much...
> 
> Can't wait for my copy of 'Formless' to arrive...



I cant remember the song but it was a decending diad type of thing


still one of the best licks EVER in SHRED history!


----------



## Drew (Jan 9, 2007)

Jerich said:


> his legato was incredible before it was trendy...



Um, since when is legato "trendy?"


[action=Drew]has been a lifelong legato devotee, and this is the first time he's heard this.[/action]


----------



## Metal Ken (Jan 9, 2007)

Drew said:


> Um, since when is legato "trendy?"
> 
> 
> [action=Drew]has been a lifelong legato devotee, and this is the first time he's heard this.[/action]



Apparently you dont know about the legions of your followers? ;p


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 9, 2007)

I don't think any technique's ever been 'trendy', apart from possibly tapping in the 80s; even stuff like sweep-picking's always kinda been there in one form or another.

Just dug out the At War With Self album (there's a new album almost finished according to his website). It still kicks ass! Great use of the nylon string. Chris Broderick did a similar thing, mixing classical guitar with metal in his Industrial Eden band, but he still hasn't done a proper album with that unfortuntely.
I've often thought it would be cool to mix Preston Reed-style 'heavy wood' playing with full-on progressive metal... 

Regarding Cynic again, I've often thought there was an audible Mahavishnu/Return to Forever influence in their music, but that stuff isn't really 'traditional' jazz...


----------



## Aghorasilat (Jan 10, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> I don't think any technique's ever been 'trendy', apart from possibly tapping in the 80s; even stuff like sweep-picking's always kinda been there in one form or another.
> 
> Just dug out the At War With Self album (there's a new album almost finished according to his website). It still kicks ass! Great use of the nylon string. Chris Broderick did a similar thing, mixing classical guitar with metal in his Industrial Eden band, but he still hasn't done a proper album with that unfortuntely.
> I've often thought it would be cool to mix Preston Reed-style 'heavy wood' playing with full-on progressive metal...
> ...



yeah can hear the inner mounting flame in there for sure



Jerich said:


> ;;Come on..santi.....you know it brutha.....i got your back....your pickups were sent out today too....Might i also reccomend them to be placed in your AGILE....
> 
> Guys who are still stuck into the Cynic/Atheist..frame of mind simply must check out AT WAR WITHSELF http://www.glennsnelwar.com/ Glen is a great composer...........



I exchanged emails with Glenn today. He says Thanks JERICH!



Drew said:


> Um, since when is legato "trendy?"
> 
> 
> [action=Drew]has been a lifelong legato devotee, and this is the first time he's heard this.[/action]



There was a time in a few circles where Guys like Derek Taylor and Derryl Gabel started to do or play a certain way and then a whole slue of shrapnel clones started to do it or attempt it as they did. I know what Jerich means it did become almost predictable and trendy. There where those in the "circle" and those outside of it. The ones outside still had good legato but not the same level of ability nor understanding as these two shred freaks had. I came up afterwards from that "School of legato" But see got it from the horses mouth directly. And then just let it guide towards a more "Holdsworth" approach. 

But really back in that DAY Derryl and Derek where doing stuff in their demos that made many dudes eye balls POP OUT at the attempt to play legato like that. 

I heard the Out takes of derryls jam with George lynch that Glynch had edited out of the actual mix that went on the record sacred groove....and let me tell you as much as I AM A HUGE GLYNCH fan DERRYL SMOKED HIM silly when it came to chops and he was like 18.

Also some say (which i tend to think is true) a lot of the shapes that Derek And Derryl Investigated where stuff that came from Dallas Perkins & Paul Gilbert who got it from..... Frank Gambale. 

Here is a Paul Gilbert arpeggio used frequently by Derek T that I extended for a 7 string application

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQVpzUdYOGE


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 10, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> yeah can hear the inner mounting flame in there for sure
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very informative. 

I know when I discovered a lot of what Derek developed in terms of technique (actually through Derryl first, as I didn't hear Derek until a bit later) I worked really hard to graft a lot of that onto my style, particularly the 313, 'spock' techniques, and the kind of arpeggios you just demonstrated. I can see it's become standard shred 'kung fu' these days, but I'd also say there's still a lot of places people could develop it...
Personally, I've got a few variations on the fingering formulae (particularly on the 7) that I use a lot, and ways of mixing these ideas with other techniques, and I tend to pick about 1/2 the notes in these sort of lick rather than slurring everything.

Just checking out Dallas Perkins...great player.

Marshall Harrison has some great variations on these ideas as well, although he tends to execute them with economy picking. Posted a link to a sweeping lesson by him in the lessons section. That guy reeeeeeeally needs to get an album done!

It sucks being stuck in England and picking up on all this stuff several steps down the line... Can't wait for GI next year, as I'd really like more people to trade ideas with!

Just remembered...Brett Garsed uses a lot of similar fingerings (especially for pentatonics...check out the lessons section on his website), although he's not quite so systematic about it.


----------



## Aghorasilat (Jan 10, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Very informative.
> 
> I know when I discovered a lot of what Derek developed in terms of technique (actually through Derryl first, as I didn't hear Derek until a bit later) I worked really hard to graft a lot of that onto my style, particularly the 313, 'spock' techniques, and the kind of arpeggios you just demonstrated. I can see it's become standard shred 'kung fu' these days, but I'd also say there's still a lot of places people could develop it...
> Personally, I've got a few variations on the fingering formulae (particularly on the 7) that I use a lot, and ways of mixing these ideas with other techniques, and I tend to pick about 1/2 the notes in these sort of lick rather than slurring everything.
> ...


Yeah i would say it probably all came from Gambale & Holdsworth approach and then trickled down to Paul Gilbert. Also If you look at what Marty & Jason did in the early days there is a lot of 2-1-2 patterns. Maha Guru Brett Garsed also uses a lot of 2-1-2, 2-1 -3, 2 - 1- 1 - 3's

What I love most about that sort of thing 313,213, etc is that it can be what you want it to be and it is not about technique at all its all principle based. For example 212's tend to give you 7th Arpeggios, 213 can lead to 9th arpeggios or arps with extensions, 313 tends to lead you melodic lines similar to Holdsworth. Then you can variate however you want and also you can play with modal interchange. Its loads of fun and its ENDLESS.

Its true free flow one you have the core down. Even the simplest mode can become an ocean of melodic lines that sound awesome.
 

Peace

Santiago


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 10, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> Yeah i would say it probably all came from Gambale & Holdsworth approach and then trickled down to Paul Gilbert. Also If you look at what Marty & Jason did in the early days there is a lot of 2-1-2 patterns. Maha Guru Brett Garsed also uses a lot of 2-1-2, 2-1 -3, 2 - 1- 1 - 3's
> 
> What I love most about that sort of thing 313,213, etc is that it can be what you want it to be and it is not about technique at all its all principle based. For example 212's tend to give you 7th Arpeggios, 213 can lead to 9th arpeggios or arps with extensions, 313 tends to lead you melodic lines similar to Holdsworth. Then you can variate however you want and also you can play with modal interchange. Its loads of fun and its ENDLESS.
> 
> ...




Definitely. It's a great way of breaking out of rutts, and really tests your fretboard knowledge. Also, like you said, because it's a principle rather than a set of licks, it feels great when you incorporate it into an improvisation.

I've found adding chromatic notes to these ideas gets insane results, for example a 4-1-3 fingering...


----------



## Aghorasilat (Jan 10, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Definitely. It's a great way of breaking out of rutts, and really tests your fretboard knowledge. Also, like you said, because it's a principle rather than a set of licks, it feels great when you incorporate it into an improvisation.
> 
> I've found adding chromatic notes to these ideas gets insane results, for example a 4-1-3 fingering...



HELL YES


----------



## Jerich (Jan 11, 2007)

Drew said:


> Um, since when is legato "trendy?"
> 
> 
> [action=Drew]has been a lifelong legato devotee, and this is the first time he's heard this.[/action]



Yeah not slamming the technique i am just saying like tapping ala EVH became normal and Sweeps Like YJM became normal that Legato became a little bit more in the guitar text book...when ever you seen a guitar player live they mastered legato at the time...Derek really was one of the first I had heard employ it with great effect!. 

santiago..you da man...Need i say more.
I have been telling you about this board for a few years now right! it is good to see/hear you here. Your information helps the cause!..you will like my pickups most peeps dig em' because they are from a seven stringer for seven stringers they were not based on any other pickups so they are all about the seven string....

Only one bad thing about Glenn....he doesn't play seven strings? YET!
his music i have heard for years ..I know his label owner and have heard demos ...great Composer...talented ....


----------



## Aghorasilat (Jan 11, 2007)

Jerich said:


> Yeah not slamming the technique i am just saying like tapping ala EVH became normal and Sweeps Like YJM became normal that Legato became a little bit more in the guitar text book...when ever you seen a guitar player live they mastered legato at the time...Derek really was one of the first I had heard employ it with great effect!.
> 
> :




Yeah Derek Rocks. He could have easily have been the top Dog at one point. But its easy to get pissed at an industry where cats like that get overlooked by bands like Korn & other useless tools posing with a 7 string. Derek was CHUG CHUGgin way before meshuggah and all the bands that everyone is jocking these days.



Jerich said:


> santiago..you da man...Need i say more.
> I have been telling you about this board for a few years now right! it is good to see/hear you here. Your information helps the cause!..you will like my pickups most peeps dig em' because they are from a seven stringer for seven stringers they were not based on any other pickups so they are all about the seven string....
> 
> Only one bad thing about Glenn....he doesn't play seven strings? YET!
> his music i have heard for years ..I know his label owner and have heard demos ...great Composer...talented ....




Jerich man thanks you are a true JEM. I can't wait to hear those Pickups.  Yeah I love this Board everyone is very cool and interesting and seem to have a high caliber of skill, taste, interest, and exploration. 


GLENN needs a 7 !


----------



## Jerich (Jan 12, 2007)

Glenn with a seven ..... I just might have to send him one to get him started...hehehhe!!!


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 12, 2007)

Aghorasilat said:


> Yeah Derek Rocks. He could have easily have been the top Dog at one point. But its easy to get pissed at an industry where cats like that get overlooked by bands like Korn & other useless tools posing with a 7 string. Derek was CHUG CHUGgin way before meshuggah and all the bands that everyone is jocking these days.



In a lot of ways he was almost too ahead of his time to be a massive success...


----------



## Jerich (Jan 13, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> In a lot of ways he was almost too ahead of his time to be a massive success...


man you hit that on the head.... when he played 6 string guitars tuned way down to 7 string B he was doing stuff no one else had ,you can even hear how loose the strings are on the Crimney CD...i heard the solos where recorded with a standard tuned and everything else with B tuning,I wonder what the truth was...either way you can hear the string slack!

Dallas Perkins has been a friend of mine since the 80's he used to totally tear it up..and is reissueing his "Looking glass" CD....Neal Citron is remixing it too.... 

Marshall is a crazy mathmatician with a guitar..I bet as incredible as he is...i think his song writing skill might not be as good as his solos skills 

alot of shredders and i hate to say that word but Shredders only shred guys like MAB cannot write backing guitar to save his life ...but can solo for days over top....


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 13, 2007)

Jerich said:


> man you hit that on the head.... when he played 6 string guitars tuned way down to 7 string B he was doing stuff no one else had ,you can even hear how loose the strings are on the Crimney CD...i heard the solos where recorded with a standard tuned and everything else with B tuning,I wonder what the truth was...either way you can hear the string slack!
> 
> Dallas Perkins has been a friend of mine since the 80's he used to totally tear it up..and is reissueing his "Looking glass" CD....Neal Citron is remixing it too....
> 
> ...



Interesting...all the tabs I've seen for Crimeny songs were for sevens in standard tuning, although given the period it was recorded, that would make sense... I'd always figured he was just using fairly light strings.

As for Marshall, I can't really comment on his composing skills, as all the stuff I've heard him playing has been classical transcriptions. If he could channel into his technique into some solid material he'd be a serious force to be reckoned with...


----------



## Jerich (Jan 13, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Interesting...all the tabs I've seen for Crimeny songs were for sevens in standard tuning, although given the period it was recorded, that would make sense... I'd always figured he was just using fairly light strings.



Look at the photo's with the cd and the photo's for his solo cd "Dystrophy" he is playing 6 string guitars when you know at first listen..it is B tuning..his main guitar in these photo's is a four pickuped single coil guitar with hundreds of dip switches..I do not even know what kinda guitar it is..i iwll dig out the photo....but i know EVH had used one for chicken picking...


----------



## distressed_romeo (Jan 13, 2007)

Jerich said:


> Look at the photo's with the cd and the photo's for his solo cd "Dystrophy" he is playing 6 string guitars when you know at first listen..it is B tuning..his main guitar in these photo's is a four pickuped single coil guitar with hundreds of dip switches..I do not even know what kinda guitar it is..i iwll dig out the photo....but i know EVH had used one for chicken picking...



Hmmm...I'm pretty sure he was playing a Universe in his CFH video...I'll have to rewatch it.

http://www.contemptclothing.com/bio-dt.htm

Recent interview with the man himself...


----------



## Aghorasilat (Jan 14, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Hmmm...I'm pretty sure he was playing a Universe in his CFH video...I'll have to rewatch it.
> 
> http://www.contemptclothing.com/bio-dt.htm
> 
> Recent interview with the man himself...



cool

good to see DT working he is a very cool guy.


----------

