# Let's talk guitar VSTs good, bad, ugly



## heathenhotel (Mar 13, 2017)

What do you guys use? What have you tried? What do you love or hate? Let's get it out there. 

For starters, I run an ART tube preamp out front of my DAW to give the tones a little more feel and warmth. For only like $20-30 used on reverb, everyone should grab one of these or something like it to put out front of the DAW. Also considering getting a hardware tube screamer or boost to do the same. 

_*THE GOOD:*_

Mercuriall U530 - A sim modeling the ENGL E530 preamp. This thing is amazing in every way and it's become my go to. Good for any genre. Built in cab sims chorus and more. 

Mercuriall Spark - It models a selection of Marshall amps so it's odd that I enjoy it so much being that I am not really a Marshall guy. Good for any genre. Built in cab sims tube screamers/boosts, delays, gates etc.

TSE X50 2.0 - Another bad ass sim that to me kinda blends the 5150, 6505 and EVH amps together in various ways but compares more to the 5150 II than anything else. Good for anything with distortion and the clean tone is serviceable. Built in cab sims, delay, tube screamer, gate etc. 

S-GEAR - This is a collection of amps that is gear more towards blues, country, rock and maybe hard rock but personally I don't feel it has much to offer for high gains at all. It's my go to for clean and crunch tones. Built in cab sims, delays and verbs.

POULIN / LEPOU FREEWARE: You will not get better freeware and that's a fact. He has ENGL, Soldano, Marshall and other sims that when combined with some decent IRs/cab sims can provide massive tone. This stuff has been around for a while and a lot of even the more expensive software still doesn't touch it. 

Honorable mention would be to the EZMIX guitar packages. They are cheap and really good for fast demos. I use some of their solo/lead settings, clean tones bass settings and other stuff in there. For the price, I like it. I wouldn't use their high gain settings over my other sims but there's some useful stuff in there. 

_*UNDECIDED:*_

The Engl E646 VS - This one is designed by Brainworx and it is modeled after the ENGL Victor Smolski amp. I managed to get some nice crunch tones out of it but high gain wise, I haven't been able to really get anything that wowed me but I haven't given it a fair shake yet. I plan on buying the ENGL E765 shortly, does anyone have any experience with it? 

_*BAD:*_

BIAS: I know there's a lot of Bias fanboys around here and hey, what you like is what you like but in my personal opinion, I think everything they have put out is a bunch of half assed garbage dressed up with cool graphics and options. They pay top dollar to the right names to demo their stuff and to put their names on certain amps or features and then people buy it. What you don't see in the video reviews and tests is that the FX chains are lathered with other high quality plugins which they have to be to get a good tone. My experience with BIAS has been buggy programs, false advertising and rude customer service. It's the no man's sky of guitar software. I can't say anything good about BIAS. 

I will also just lump stuff like Amplitube, Guitar rig and so on because it's all pretty crappy but if you are looking more for jus software to play with and jam along to songs or whatever, get it. 

Thermionik: I feel bad putting this stuff in the bad section because it's not by any means bad. I can just say that I worked my butt off with all the sims, all the cabs and honestly, I just could not dial in anything I would use on a recording. I think the developer tried to model too many amps and it just came out as a bunch of sims that are below average and really don't sound a whole lot like the amps they are modeling. Recabinet, master dither, Kclip and his other stuff is solid but I feel that with his sims, he should focus on 1-2 amps and use his talents to really hit a homerun instead of releasing 5-10 at a time. 

I can't think of any more off the top of my head. The stuff from Ignite amps is cool, their bass amp sim is top shelf but none of their sims really stands out.


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## GuitarBizarre (Mar 13, 2017)

Amplitube sounds just fine if you use it for what it's good at, which is mid-gain and clean tones. The Jet City models are fantastic for laying down a beefy riff or two if you're not after that hyper-articulate modern tech/djent tone. The cabinet models are lacking though - not enough diversity and confusing names. 

Guitar Rig isn't as good, but it's also not had an update in FOREVER. 

BIAS, I used for a while and just couldn't get a really good sound out of for high gain.

It *does* sound fantastic if you're using presets that have been Amp-Matched, but at the end of the day, if you're unable to dial in "the sound" using just what comes in the box, and have to rely on someone profiling a real amp, I just kind of think it's selling half a product, especially when other software does better in that regard.

I was able to pretty convincingly match an entire Stevie Ray Vaughan Signal chain though, so it deserves credit for that, even if the distortions do sound like ass.


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## oc616 (Mar 13, 2017)

I've only tried 3 strictly software based sims, so here they are in ranked order for me.

1) Overloud TH3: I'm currently selling both my Axe FX Ultra and POD HD Pro because this software is just THAT good. It doesn't need all these varying models of high-gain amps because it's sources are that good in their quality to base tones around. I rarely step outside of the Fireball, 5150, Dual Recto and Randall T2 models, but from what I've fiddled around with on cleaner amps they fit the bill.

2) LePou: I struggled to get this working, and the amount of plugins I had to stick around it (Tube Screamer, noisegates and various EQs as well as IRs) really hit my CPU for nothing particularly special. We are talking 2 years ago, and a lot of people on this forum swear by it.

3) BIAS: Awful interface, massive impact on CPU, poor source sounds, lots of fiddling needed to get what you're after and even then do a poor job of achieving it. This product gets pushed a lot by popular artists and YouTubers and I can only assume that comes with a sack of money. Avoid.


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## GuitarBizarre (Mar 13, 2017)

oc616 said:


> I've only tried 3 strictly software based sims, so here they are in ranked order for me.
> 
> 1) Overloud TH3: I'm currently selling both my Axe FX Ultra and POD HD Pro because this software is just THAT good. It doesn't need all these varying models of high-gain amps because it's sources are that good in their quality to base tones around. I rarely step outside of the Fireball, 5150, Dual Recto and Randall T2 models, but from what I've fiddled around with on cleaner amps they fit the bill.
> 
> ...



I'm not really convinced by your idea of the LePou stuff.

Yeah, you have to use other stuff in line with it. They're only Amp Sims, not cabinet sims or multiFX. You really shouldn't have to use much though. Noise Gate, Tubescreamer, Lepou Amp, and Recabinet.

If you're using Legion, get rid of the tubescreamer because the amp was designed not to need one.

CPU wise I've found very little problem with it's usage.


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## bostjan (Mar 13, 2017)

LePou is the only free amp sim I have ever got to sound decent. Everything else I've tried has either sounded really bad or not worked at all.

I have iRig for android, and it's totally useless. What a waste of money. There are no decent modern high gain models, and using something vintage high gain with a tube screamer means you give up the slot that does a noise suppressor, which is direly needed in that situation.

I've also downloaded the MT power kit, and it's pretty darn good.

I'm trying to find something symphonic that meets my needs. A lot of plugins sound very MIDI-plastic, or else don't really have good setting adjustments...

I've gotten some use out of Ampire, the plugin that comes with Studio One. It took a very small amount of tweaking to get it sounding big, and once I got a few presets, it's been my go-to.


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## schwiz (Mar 13, 2017)

I like BIAS, TSE and Amplitube and have gotten a decent hi gain tone out of all of them. I don't think I've ever used the stock IR's on any of the 3 though. I always revert back to my GuitarHack IR's. mixIR (64-bit) is pretty awesome for blending multiple IR's.


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## TedEH (Mar 13, 2017)

I've tried a small handful of guitar amp VSTs, mostly free, with a bunch of different impulses, a couple of different DIs in front, and honestly hated all of them most of the time. The only time I've been able to make serious use of a plugin like that was one of the LePou plugins blended over a real amp that was lacking some of that high end fizzyness that amp sims are good at.

I'll fully admit that maybe it's a matter of how things get dialed in, or maybe it's my brain playing tricks on me, or some kind of weird bias, but I just don't get along with modeled tones. Even hearing stuff on releases or youtube or whatever else, the only modeled tone I can think of that I've heard and said "yeah, I'd rock that" was a Kemper. PODs to my ears just sound bad. AxeFX seems like it *can* sound good on a recording, but needs some engineering magic done to get it there.

But at the same time I'm not that picky, which sort of contradicts what I just said.  I think a lot of "bad tones" can be made to work really well in the right context. A lot of tones are "not for me", but work well for certain songs or production styles.


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## KingAenarion (Mar 13, 2017)

I've honestly broken it down to the tools I use and what they're used for, and what best suits that.

For tracking I'll either track through a rough AxeFX preset, or use BIAS, not because of tone quality, but because of speed in dialing in what I call a "workable" tone.

A workable tone is something that lets me hear the chords and notes are in tune, and lets me hear the quality of the playing. I find Bias is great for this actually, because if it sounds good in bias, it sounds much better down the line. I'm tending to use the AxeFX more these days for that, but particularly on recordings where I DON'T know the guitarist (and especially non-gearslut guitarists), I find Bias is useful in that regard, because the on screen visual interface allows them to get that sense of what I'm doing, and I can hear all the fault in their playing.

It also means once I reamp it I'm usually happy it's going to sound great.

Then for reamping I'll use the real thing and the AxeFX/Helix for my final tones. It just depends on the intended final product and budget.


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## Metropolis (Mar 13, 2017)

Overloud TH3

- Good amp modeling and effects
- Low on cpu
- Easy to use, flexible signal chain
- Really versatile
- One of the best feeling plugins out there

But... the full version is a bit pricy. And it's not perfect either. Still really nice  It's the ampsim no one never talks about. Must be the company's low profile marketing strategy.


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## Drew (Mar 13, 2017)

I'm a dyed-in-the-wool tube snob, and if given the choice would almost always mic up my Roadster - I've invested enough in the amp, in mics, in practice using those mics, and in time figuring out how to get sounds I like out of that rig that it's silly not to, since I like how it sounds and feels. 

But, if I WERE to do any VST amp sim stuff, the LePou stuff really impressed me. I only downloaded it because it was free and because a buddy in the UK had asked me to track some bluesier stuff for him to reamp to get him some stuff outside of metal to add to his portfolio, and I was caught off guard just how good it was. The Ecstasy model reminded me all over again how much I love the sound of that amp, and I was able to get a surprisingly decent version of my normal lead sound using the Lecto model. I'd absolutely use it to demo if I needed to record something late at night, and in a pinch it's good enough to use on a record, IMO.


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## bostjan (Mar 13, 2017)

^ I actually prefer to record multiple takes DI and amp'd with my Mesa, then play with sims on the DI tracks to mix in with the live tracks. To my ears, it makes things sound bigger than just doing one or the other.


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## Drew (Mar 13, 2017)

bostjan said:


> ^ I actually prefer to record multiple takes DI and amp'd with my Mesa, then play with sims on the DI tracks to mix in with the live tracks. To my ears, it makes things sound bigger than just doing one or the other.



I haven't tried that, but my Apogee lets me track through the unit in real time, capturing a DI track AND a mic'd track at the same time.


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## karjim (Mar 13, 2017)

I've tried every VST I could find since 2008: Guitar Rig, Amplitube, THD, Nick Crow, TSE, Revalver, Line6, and dozen of obscure things. I use LePou Legion and his Marshall sim for about 7 years, it's really a great VST for 6 strings. I combine it with Lecab2 and Redwired Impulses (Mesa Engl Orange Bogner).
When it comes to modern 7/8 strings tight machines I've never met a better way that Misha's EZ Mix2 settings. As much as I bow to Fredrik's sounds, his patches are just not as good as Misha's. The Koloss thing is just not my thing: buzzy and fizzy.
BUT and there's a massive BUT
If you wanna reccord, EVERY VST need a massive tweak, specially with a good Eq like FabFilter to kill the mofo 4K, the excess of low-end, the mud around 250Htz and of course the digital mess in the high mids that every sim have, even Axe Fx and Co


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## lemeker (Mar 13, 2017)

If I choose to use vst's for guitar work I use the Le Pou Engl model they have. I like the Lecto. Its a cool sim. However, even in my limited experience, I get better tones from the real deal when I mic my cab.

I haven't tried anything else simply because I'm too cheap to buy any amp sims like that.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 13, 2017)

It's funny, some people can get some pretty good high-gain tones from sims. Sadly, I'm not one of them. 

One thing I've found that helps when trying to dial in a high-gain sim tone is to forget using a dedicated high-gain amp sim, and instead use a real distortion pedal into a clean or on-the-verge-of break-up amp sim. This really seems to offset that incredibly annoying scratchiness most high-gain sims have. Actually, the best results I've gotten using sims is with a distortion pedal (preferably a Boss Power Stack) and the Line 6 Pod Farm Flip Top bass amp and V30 4X12/Flip Top 1X15 cab sims. Again, not great sounding by any stretch of the imagination, but serviceable enough.

To the OP, given the choice, I'd rather spend on a decent preamp pedal and run that into some good IRs rather than keep wasting my time and money auditioning over-priced software that will just end up giving you a severe case of option fatigue.


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## newamerikangospel (Mar 13, 2017)

Thermionik can be difficult because of cab choices, in my opinion. The impulses aren't meant to make one amp sound good like in a lot of modelers, it's meant to represent a tone from that cab with that mic. The ones you like a mostly one amp sets that already come a little "baked in" tonewise. Not to say it's bad, but Thermionik is where I go if I do a vst only mix, and LePou stuff is vastly useful as well.

*Disclaimer: I modeled my cobra for Thermionik and have received comped stuff from kazrog.


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## heathenhotel (Mar 14, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> To the OP, given the choice, I'd rather spend on a decent preamp pedal and run that into some good IRs rather than keep wasting my time and money auditioning over-priced software that will just end up giving you a severe case of option fatigue.



Explain preamp pedal and using IRs with them. I don't really get what you mean. I would love to pick up an ENGL E530 and run it into my computer somehow but I am not sure how something like that would work.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 14, 2017)

heathenhotel said:


> Explain preamp pedal and using IRs with them. I don't really get what you mean. I would love to pick up an ENGL E530 and run it into my computer somehow but I am not sure how something like that would work.



AMT P1>interface>IRs>Reaper>done. 

For the 530 you'd line it out of either of the line outputs or the FX loop send.

E530 into impulses...this is several years old (meaning there are better IRs out there now) but that's a beefy tone:


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## Descent (Mar 14, 2017)

I find that I do OK as long as I load cabinet IRs. 

Nick Crow sounds great for leads. 

Amplitube 3 Fender and the regular pack that I have work great if I don't use their cabs, but feed IRs.

So far I use Kalthalen sims that I usually load in Ampire (Studio One's amp + cab simulator) or NadIR. 

I'm probably one of the few that doesn't have much success with LePou. They don't seem to work for me.

I do pretty well with Guitar Rig 5, even with its built-in cab sims, sometimes I use just that and not their amps, but feed something else. I love their Plexi amp, which is all that I currently have from them (the free version).

Ampire is good for some low to mid gain sounds, especially with outside IRs.

I use some tube and tape overdrive sims to cook the front end of most of these and the results are more pleasant. 

The best result I get is still with a real amp and a miked cab. It is a lot easier to dial, record and mix. The downside is that I can't blast my amps when usually inspiration strikes so I reamp.


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## BlueTrident (Mar 14, 2017)

The best tones that I've gotten from BIAS were from Tonecloud. Unfortunately I've only gotten BIAS AMP and not FX so adding my own IRs and getting a tube screamer in front of it maxes out my CPU which sucks


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## rahnvu (Mar 14, 2017)

At least one thing can be concluded from a thread like this: Tone is very subjective! 
I have only used Thermionik amp sims since the last versions were released. I even used them coupled with Rosen Digital IRs on my bands latest record and I think it sounds great. A lot of this imo is the fact that the amp plugins have a power amp and a "dynamics" knob that seems to give the amp more lifelike response. 
Other than that: TH3 is one of the better ones, Bias is really disappointing and I'm looking forward to the Helix release!


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 14, 2017)

Isn't Helix supposed to be coming out as a stand-alone app?


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 14, 2017)

Yeah, called Helix Native. Plugin with all the same stuff the Helix has. Should be good, but it's like $399...


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 14, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> Yeah, called Helix Native. Plugin with all the same stuff the Helix has. Should be good, but it's like $399...



[email protected]#! that.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 14, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> [email protected]#! that.



Agreed. Should be good but I'm not giving Line6 $400 for anything ever.


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## heathenhotel (Mar 14, 2017)

Just tried a new one today. Brainworx Rockrack. I thought it would be fairly low quality for some reason but wow, right off the hop the tones are usable without much tweaking. Good value because you get a bunch of amps in the package. I recommend it forsure.

I am really wanting the Brainworx Friedman amp plugin but I am not spending a grand on a Universal Audio Apollo interface for it. I think it's absolute garbage that the Friedman plugin isn't available outside of UA. Sure it's pricey as well but that's probably due to UA inflating all of their prices.


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## Emperoff (Mar 15, 2017)

I've tried most of them. 


*S-Gear:* My go-to. Everything just sounds good. I don't really care about anything else. The fact that the amp models are "inspired by" designs instead of simulations keep the comparisons at bay. Although it's true it lacks a proper "modern metal" amp, I get good results with the Wayfarer. They could improve the interface, though. It's also a bit expensive considering it only has 5 amps. 

*Thermionik* was my favourite back when it was "Recabinet 4". Now I just can't be bothered to fiddle with 30 separate VSTs (amps) every time I want to jam. I just prefer suites with on/off modules (WAY faster to browse presets or create tones). Some of the amps sound really good and there is a great selection, but I just find it cumbersome to use nowadays. 

*Mercuriall stuff:* Warm and nice sounds. Similar to S-Gear tone-wise and a good addition to compliment it with hi-gain british and german tones. They are very expensive to be single amps, IMHO. 

*Positive Grid BIAS:* The "Michael Bay movie" of the VST ampsims. Flashy graphics and a bazillion of nerd-candy features that no one would touch in a physical amp, but zero substance. No matter which model I selected, they all sounded shrill and harsh with a clanky attack I could never dial out. This software is the best example of what Youtuber advertising can do. Even the tone of those Youtuber demos of it suck. 

*TSE X50:* Considering most metal players only care about the 5150 tone, this is a very valid choice since it's a ready to rock suite with all the typical effects people use. It also sounds great. Shame is 70$ for a single amp sim. 

*Overlouds's TH3:* I hated the interface so damn much that I discarded it immediately, since it didn't wow me sound-wise anyway. 

*Amplitube 4:* Amazing interface, "Meh" sounds. They ported all the stuff from Amplitube 3 so obviously they didn't improve much sonic wise. They added better models like the Mesa collection and my favourite Ampeg SVX, but the plugin had the bad habit of disappearing from my DAW. I ditched it for Kuassa Cerberus', which destroys it for bass tones. 

*Revalver 4:* Sounded OK, but didn't wow me much either. Enough options to make your head explode. A valid choice I guess 

*LePou Plugins:* Being free, these plugins work a treat. The LexTac plugin as previously mentioned sounds really great. They sound a bit "dated" to me compared to other commercial options, but again they're free. Most of the people advocating them actually tried them years ago and didn't try other ones since they're not very interested in ampsims to begin with. They still are a great alternative to commercial ampsims and you can cover a very wide territory with them. If the guy had managed to create a suite, it would have sold quite well. 


Phew! That's it I guess. I'm VERY interested in the upcoming Helix Native. They will drop the price as soon as they realize VSTs are not Pedalboards and could make me move on from S-Gear if it sounds good enough. It definetely covers a wider territory.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 15, 2017)

Thanks for the heads up on that Kuassa Cerberus. Been looking for a good bass VST.


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## GuitarBizarre (Mar 15, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> Agreed. Should be good but I'm not giving Line6 $400 for anything ever.



Lol.

How dare Line 6 try to sell the entire capability of their flagship modeller for 1/3rd the price to those people who don't need or already have a hardware solution. How dare they!


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## Lorcan Ward (Mar 15, 2017)

At the moment I really like Thermionik, TSE X50 suite and Ignite Emmisary. To be honest once you put TSE 808 or a similar overdrive in front, your go to impulses and your usual EQ settings for the guitar you're using they all sound quite alike. 

I also like what I've heard from Joey Sturgis's amp sims but I keep missing any of the 24 hour sales.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 15, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Lol.
> 
> How dare Line 6 try to sell the entire capability of their flagship modeller for 1/3rd the price to those people who don't need or already have a hardware solution. How dare they!



Well, if you're buying....


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## GuitarBizarre (Mar 15, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> Well, if you're buying....


I just think it's a ridiculous statement. You and the other guy sound like you're really annoyed at Line6 for what they're charging, thing is, it's really not that different to what anyone else is charging.

To buy all 30 Thermionik Amps, even with the discount from their site, is $188.58, and you'll have no Cabinet Models. Add in the full-fat version of Recabinet 5 and you end up paying a little more than half the cost of the $399 Helix plugin to get:

26 Fewer Amp Models (46% Fewer)
12 Fewer Cabinets (40% Fewer)
8 Fewer Microphones per Cabinet (50% Fewer)
*95* Fewer Effects (*100%* Fewer)

I know that the Thermionik stuff (*some* of it) comes with the option to select amp channels, and Line 6 are listing each channel as a different amp model, but they more than make up for that with the inbuilt effects, and much wider range of cabinet responses and microphones.

Overloud TH3 is arguably a better deal, with a few more of all those things for $300 instead of $399, but I'm not particularly interested in 12 different variations of Lynch head, and frankly I didn't think it sounded that incredible when I used it.

Amplitube MAX is $599, so way more expensive and, again, sound quality isn't really on-par with Helix anyway.

Guitar rig is cheap but sounds like ass unless you tweak the crap out of it.


etc etc. 

Line 6 asking that much for Helix isn't even close to the worst deal in VST Guitar, and a lot of the stuff recommended in this thread so far is way more expensive for what you're actually getting.

And if money really is an issue, well, there's Ignite's plugins, LePou, and god knows how many free IRs and other effects out there that can get you 90% of the way to these sounds for literally nothing.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 15, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> I just think it's a ridiculous statement. You and the other guy sound like you're really annoyed at Line6 for what they're charging, thing is, it's really not that different to what anyone else is charging.



There comes a time when you simply say I've paid enough out of pocket already. This is one of those times.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 15, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Lol. How dare Line 6 try to sell the entire capability of their flagship modeller for 1/3rd the price to those people who don't need or already have a hardware solution. How dare they!



Not ragging on Line6 for doing business, not sure how you got that from what I said. They're free to charge what they want, just as I'm free not to buy it.



GuitarBizarre said:


> I just think it's a ridiculous statement. You and the other guy sound like you're really annoyed at Line6 for what they're charging, thing is, it's really not that different to what anyone else is charging.



Not annoyed at Line6 for what they're charging, it's not the price. I've paid way more for certain things. *It's the company itself*. Like said above, burned too many times for sub par products, not coming out of pocket for this. Was just stating a preference...they've done a good thing with the Helix AFAIK, but I'll never experience it because they lost me as a customer a long time ago. No hate, and more power to them for what they're doing.


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## IdentityDevice (Mar 15, 2017)

Have any of you guys checked out the Black Rooster Audio Cypress TT-15? It's pretty killer. Try it with the Ignite Amps TSB-1 Boost and your favorite cab sim (turn off the stock sim).


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## Emperoff (Mar 15, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> Thanks for the heads up on that Kuassa Cerberus. Been looking for a good bass VST.



You're welcome! 

On a side note: I don't like Line6 either but things may have changed since Yamaha bought the company. The Helix is the first "POD style" processor they release and it's getting rave reviews.

I definetely won't be shelling 399$ for it, but I might buy it for 199$ which is a more reasonable price for a modeller. I love S-Gear but compared to the Helix is obviously very limited in scope.


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## Descent (Mar 15, 2017)

I am pretty much done paying for vst modelers, period. Spent too much money on things that in 2-3 years become obsolete. 

Look at Amplitube's full suite - that's $600, which gets me a Carvin V3, and I can't still use it when the next version of Windows or Mac comes out 

Same thing with hardware modelers although in lesser degree. I remember spending tons of $$$ on Roland, Digitech, Rocktron modelers to be eclipsed next year by the next best thing, and all of a sudden you get a somewhat plasticky sound that was always there but you kinda talked yourself out of hearing it as you loved the switching or ease of use of the unit


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## niffnoff (Mar 15, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> I just think it's a ridiculous statement. You and the other guy sound like you're really annoyed at Line6 for what they're charging, thing is, it's really not that different to what anyone else is charging.
> 
> To buy all 30 Thermionik Amps, even with the discount from their site, is $188.58, and you'll have no Cabinet Models. Add in the full-fat version of Recabinet 5 and you end up paying a little more than half the cost of the $399 Helix plugin to get:
> 
> ...



Except if you buy Thermionik complete and get Recab 5 + previous impulses, or Thermionik's bundle's you could just download free IR loaders and get the catharsis impulses and be in the ball park 

My issue with Line 6 as a whole is this is another POD Farm upgrade. Looks like they abandoned the HD platform for Helix and will double down on the price cause they think it's that much better and will probably make you pay extra for any expansions in the future, something Line 6 was notorious for in the past... 400 bucks for an amp sim? Sounds sketchy if it can emulate the hardware (and the tones I have heard don't sound that good either). 

Personally, I think this thread really just shows what we prefer and we want to all show our epeen on what we've bought. I know Johnny sings the praise out of TH3 , personally I thought it sounds as good as others at this point. I only like the GUI of it tho.

People seem to hate Bias, this one I don't get. Sure it's the most advertised one out of em all... but who gives a crap if it sounds good. I love the amp matching feature, and I've found plenty tones in the past to warrant it a good amp sim. I prefer it's AMP variant but FX has some good qualities (as a former POD Farm user). It takes work, but I don't mind tweaking and crafting.

The Freeware sims are great (especially early TSE x50 v1.0) LePou, TSE, Ignite are all amazing sims. 

I think though really each and every sim is only as good as the user behind the desk. And honestly, if it's not working for you move on to another until you find one you do like... There's my twocents.


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## heathenhotel (Mar 15, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> At the moment I really like Thermionik, TSE X50 suite and Ignite Emmisary. To be honest once you put TSE 808 or a similar overdrive in front, your go to impulses and your usual EQ settings for the guitar you're using they all sound quite alike.
> 
> I also like what I've heard from Joey Sturgis's amp sims but I keep missing any of the 24 hour sales.



You son of a bitch lol, as if I needed more amps to look at, now there's the guilty pleasure and the menace etc. I am gonna have to try them out in my pursuit of tone.


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## heathenhotel (Mar 15, 2017)

Emperoff said:


> I've tried most of them.



It seems we feel the same way about a lot of the market. Your review on the BIAS stuff is probably one of the best things I have ever read. 

Pure gold!!


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## heathenhotel (Mar 15, 2017)

Here's a question off but on topic. I love my boost VSTs but have any of you guys had better results with a hardware (actual pedal) boost out front of your interface? I have been missing my protone dead horse since I stopped playing live and started just recording. I was thinking of buying a dead horse and doing just that with it because it's such a unique boost.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 16, 2017)

heathenhotel said:


> Here's a question off but on topic. I love my boost VSTs but have any of you guys had better results with a hardware (actual pedal) boost out front of your interface? I have been missing my protone dead horse since I stopped playing live and started just recording. I was thinking of buying a dead horse and doing just that with it because it's such a unique boost.



Yeah, I don't like to run too many VSTs; just bugs me, seems like there's extra noise (even though I know there isn't) and it messes with my levels. I don't really like any of the VST boosts, even though I know they're good for most anything I'd want to do. The fact that I'm already sitting in front of a computer playing into headphones just makes me not want to mess with any more programs. I'd rather have at least one pedal to mess with. 

Most of the time lately I'm using an AMT P1 with a PlxFx Bion boost in front of it...it's a Naga Viper clone built by a guy on another forum...got boost/gain/range controls and it makes dialing the setup for each guitar easier. The sweep on the Range knob is huge...goes from wooly fuzz tones to razor sharp surgical metal tones without changing anything else in the chain. 

I'll use it in front of everything, even if just using Amplitube Mesa Boogie for a drumjam or something. I really like the control and the way it make everything sound.


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## heathenhotel (Mar 16, 2017)

Considering a savage drive or another dead horse. Not sure yet. 

Oh and I am just messing with the JST (Joey Sturgis) amp sims right now and so far The Menace is pretty solid, the guilty pleasure is ok but I am not bothering with the Richardson because the graphics and settings look exceedingly stupid and annoying. Sturgis plugs are supposed to be about simplicity not irritation. The Menace will forsure have a spot on something I am working on.


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## GuitarBizarre (Mar 16, 2017)

niffnoff said:


> Except if you buy Thermionik complete and get Recab 5 + previous impulses, or Thermionik's bundle's you could just download free IR loaders and get the catharsis impulses and be in the ball park



There is no Thermionik Complete on their website. There is this, but it's $250 https://kazrogplugins.com/amember/product/complete1

Other than that you're stuck adding the contents of this page to your basket, which they then add a discount to, to reduce your total to $188 - https://kazrogplugins.com/amember/cart/index/index?c=11

At which point you're *still* spending just under half the cost of the Helix plugin, to get no effects and only what cabs and impulses you can scrounge up from online somewhere.



niffnoff said:


> My issue with Line 6 as a whole is this is another POD Farm upgrade. Looks like they abandoned the HD platform for Helix and will double down on the price cause they think it's that much better and will probably make you pay extra for any expansions in the future, something Line 6 was notorious for in the past... 400 bucks for an amp sim? Sounds sketchy if it can emulate the hardware (and the tones I have heard don't sound that good either).


This doesn't make any sense at all. 

They're not "Abandoning" it - Why would they? They're the biggest company in the category and they sell really, really well. It's just that a hardware Helix is 3 times the price and aimed at a totally different market of players. It's silly to treat it as a "POD Farm Update" - They're for totally different markets of players.



niffnoff said:


> People seem to hate Bias, this one I don't get. Sure it's the most advertised one out of em all... but who gives a crap if it sounds good. I love the amp matching feature, and I've found plenty tones in the past to warrant it a good amp sim. I prefer it's AMP variant but FX has some good qualities (as a former POD Farm user). It takes work, but I don't mind tweaking and crafting.



People dislike it because it was incredibly hyped up and marketed - Misha, Ola, Merrow Glen Fricker et al, *all* said it was fantastic. 

Then it actually came out and to be honest, it's just not that incredible. Amp matched tones sound great, yeah, but the tones it's capable of producing without an amp match are just not that good, and for a lot of people, it's just a pain in the ass to go trawling libraries of Amp-Matched tones to try and find the best ones, when the software should be able to get 90% of the way to that result, without even going online. BIAS gets more like 50% of that result before you *need* to Amp-Match to improve it.




niffnoff said:


> The Freeware sims are great (especially early TSE x50 v1.0) LePou, TSE, Ignite are all amazing sims.



I agree, but their primary advantage is that they're free. The paid products *do* sound better in the majority of cases. Maybe only 1% better, but they do. 

Does anyone need to pay for this sort of thing? No. 
But if they want to pay for the best stuff they can get, well, the fact is that Helix at $399 isn't actually going to be terrible value - it offers a *lot* of options at a high quality for that $399, and when you compare it to other paid competition, it's not significantly more expensive for what you're getting. In fact it's much cheaper than some options that are out there.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 16, 2017)

heathenhotel said:


> Here's a question off but on topic. I love my boost VSTs but have any of you guys had better results with a hardware (actual pedal) boost out front of your interface? I have been missing my protone dead horse since I stopped playing live and started just recording. I was thinking of buying a dead horse and doing just that with it because it's such a unique boost.



I think a real distortion pedal in front of a clean-ish amp sim sounds better than a dedicated high-gain amp sim. Sim high-gain/distortion always sounds too harsh/scratchy/abrasive to me, whereas the gain from an actual pedal sounds a lot more "natural." 

Personally, I like Boss pedals, as they seem to work with just about everything.


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## niffnoff (Mar 16, 2017)

I feel like most of your argument regarding Bias is that you didn't get a tone that worked for you, and the marketing hype gave you a negative experience.

The problem here is that everything I say or you say is subjective, in fact most of this thread is. What works for me doesn't work for you and vice versa, I lost my trust in L6 after the HD line up and finding out they once again had an expansion system. And I honestly do see Helix as a Pod Farm 3.0, Considering the POD XT did the same thing with PF I don't feel like I am wrong on this front. 

Regarding Thermionik, I bought it for the guitar amps, not the fx. Considering if I need FX I can just as easily open up a delay in my DAW or get a hardware unit. If I need compression I have my plugs. Sure it would be nice to have it in the plugins, but then again, I like to use FX bus's for all of that. for 399 I don't see the value in a helix plugin, when most of the features I've probably bought or downloaded already. Impulses matter too when it comes to making these plugins sound good. And right now, the best place I've found are the free ones, or Rosen Digital. Most of the time people are using impulses 3rd party on most of their software anyway (even the developers know this and allow third party IR's in their plugins, see TSE, Bias, TH3, Revalver etc.)

The tl;dr of this is basically if it works for you great, if it doesn't then oh well on to the next one. Again everything is subjective.


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## heathenhotel (Mar 16, 2017)

What I didn't like about BIAS products is that they were garbage period. I didn't get anything close to a tone I would use on anything apart from a few nice clean tones. The other thing is that BIAS tends to put their products out in a broken state. There were plenty of bugs in the BIAS stuff I purchased. There was also a lot of false advertising and their customer service was a pain to deal with. 

Personally, I know money is nice but for guys like Fluff, Ola, Merrow and other notable youtubers / demo guys to praise the BIAS products was kinda lame when they know a lot of people will buy based on their demos. If you listen to those demos, there's just no way they aren't layered with tons of other plugins to sound that way. 

It's just bad software that provides poor results for too much money. The price wouldn't be as bad if they didn't have to pay everyone to say it was cool though.


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## niffnoff (Mar 16, 2017)

I mean you are saying that an originally exclusive app built on apple architecture (Jam Up) was supposed to be flawless on release on the windows platform? Now I know little about coding, but I know enough to know that logic is flawed. Considering it's working in a great state now, personally speaking.

I mean I'm like a broken record at this point but this is really subjective on if it sounds good or not 

Plugin count wise most chains I've done for my self or others has always been the good ol guitar buss:Gate> TS808 (if not already going in) > Bias (for examples sake) > IR > Q2 (to remove anything I hate) and that's it. I guess it really burned when people were early adopters or something.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 16, 2017)

heathenhotel said:


> What I didn't like about BIAS products is that they were garbage period. I didn't get anything close to a tone I would use on anything apart from a few nice clean tones. The other thing is that BIAS tends to put their products out in a broken state. There were plenty of bugs in the BIAS stuff I purchased. There was also a lot of false advertising and their customer service was a pain to deal with.
> 
> Personally, I know money is nice but for guys like Fluff, Ola, Merrow and other notable youtubers / demo guys to praise the BIAS products was kinda lame when they know a lot of people will buy based on their demos. If you listen to those demos, there's just no way they aren't layered with tons of other plugins to sound that way.
> 
> It's just bad software that provides poor results for too much money. The price wouldn't be as bad if they didn't have to pay everyone to say it was cool though.



What should be SOP for all YouTuber gear reviewers should be

1) Full disclosure if they are in any way receiving any kind of renumeration/compensation for their review

and

2) What kind of post-processing has been applied to their demo tracks.

As for BIAS, I bought it, fiddled around with it for awhile, and then gave up, as I couldn't get any high-gain tones worth a damn. Same with the TSE-X50 and the Thermioniks amp sims. Anything over a light crunch, and it started sounding like scratchy canned crap or flubby uselessness pretty quick. 

Also, I'm done being systematically blackmailed by companies like Line 6 who keep forcing you to pay for their expansion packs/nouveau gimmicks.


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## niffnoff (Mar 16, 2017)

I mean... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHnLofQuta8

you can see what Ola does here... 

I agree about the disclosure though 100%, alot of tech channels I watch do it and if anything it reinforces their credibility.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 16, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> 2) What kind of post-processing has been applied to their demo tracks.



SO MUCH THIS. 

I get that you're Ola or Fluff or whoever...but don't try to sell me something that you had to throw 49 other plugins on to make sound good, especially if I don't have those plugins. Don't try and make it seem that you got those tones straight out of the box and that I can do the exact same tones, because I've tried it and you can't. 

I dig the vids, but I've basically given up buying anything because of them, because none of them sound like they do in the videos, and it's pretty much a waste of my time to watch them as research for a purchase anymore. 

I get that these companies want these guys to make the product sound as good as possible, and no one wants to put out a ....ty vid or clip, but just SHOW ME WHAT THE ....ING THING SOUNDS LIKE OUT OF THE BOX.

OR, do a clip with just the product, then double it and throw it in a mix, and then show me what you used afterwards to make it sound like we all want to, ya know?


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## Akhenat0n (Mar 17, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> SO MUCH THIS.
> 
> I get that you're Ola or Fluff or whoever...but don't try to sell me something that you had to throw 49 other plugins on to make sound good, especially if I don't have those plugins. Don't try and make it seem that you got those tones straight out of the box and that I can do the exact same tones, because I've tried it and you can't.
> 
> ...



Couldn't agree more.......


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## GuitarBizarre (Mar 17, 2017)

Hasn't Ola done a video "debunking" the "It all sounds the same" thing people say about his videos? 

I always thought he claimed, specifically, not to be doing post-processing on his stuff.


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## oc616 (Mar 17, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Hasn't Ola done a video "debunking" the "It all sounds the same" thing people say about his videos?
> 
> I always thought he claimed, specifically, not to be doing post-processing on his stuff.



It's not really about what sounds the same (I never thought so anyway), but I'm still skeptical at taking his word on no post-processing. He may as well do it and say he didn't.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 17, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> I get that these companies want these guys to make the product sound as good as possible, and no one wants to put out a ....ty vid or clip, but just SHOW ME WHAT THE ....ING THING SOUNDS LIKE OUT OF THE BOX.



If they did, then who'd buy their stuff? 

When looking at a new potential pedal, I skip the well-produced, big-name "review" vids and instead go straight for the crappiest sounding low-fi cell phone mic'd ones. I figure if something sounds reasonably good/usable under those recording conditions it's going to sound alright on my end. 

Unfortunately, given the costs involved, you'd have to be independently wealthy in order to be able to host a truly non-partisan review channel.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 18, 2017)

Grabbed the U530 from Mercuriall earlier. 

Dig it. Nice thick distortion, sounds massive double tracked. Worth it if you're looking for that tone. The built in cabs are decent too.

Lasse reamp:

https://app.box.com/s/e9lu4qz8smdxqubfq9r224pxebownhlm


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## niffnoff (Mar 19, 2017)

The U530 is great, if only a little hungry for CPU usage and no option for stereo


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## schwiz (Mar 20, 2017)

There is so much back and forth about all these amp sims, its boggling my mind. The real factor in the amp sim tone equation is the IR's. ....ty IR's = ....ty tone. FWIW, I've found maybe 3 or 4 decent IR's after sifting through Bias, TSE, Amplitube and Revalver. 90% of the time, I always disable the cabinet simulation and load up my go to IR's (Fredman collection) in mixIR.

Taking the Peavy 5150 (or similar) from all 4 of those amp sims produces damn near the same results for me with the same set of IR's. So the arguments about amp sim X being complete .... compared to amp sim Y seems to minuscule in the grand scheme of "tone chasing".

Use whatever amp sims you want, hell, even use Guitar Rig. But, invest in some decent IR's to get decent amp sim tone.

I'm looking at the Ownhammer Heavy Hitters collection as well as the JST IR packs next.


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## niffnoff (Mar 20, 2017)

schwiz said:


> I'm looking at the Ownhammer Heavy Hitters collection as well as the JST IR packs next.



I own that pack and jesus those IR's are good. I also like Rosen digitals packs too. I am skeptical of JST's if only because they seem to go well with their sims than others for what I've found.


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## BlueTrident (Apr 7, 2017)

The JST Jason Richardson VST is actually quite tasty when paired (like everything on this thread) with a solid IR. I'm using the free Clark Kent IR and with a noise gate in front I've gotten the settings to be perfecto. The only downside is that the gain nob is universal which sucks when changing channels.


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## niffnoff (Apr 7, 2017)

BlueTrident said:


> The only downside is that the gain nob is universal which sucks when changing channels.



Whoever thought "THIS IS A GOOD IDEA" needs their head kicking in for that. The gain input is so infuriating... what if I wanted to automate my tone or something


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## SymbolicDeath (Apr 8, 2017)

I see a lot of praise for TH3, but I really wasn't that impressed with it. Between the lePou xtac for cleans, and the emissary and nick crow amp sims paired with Catharsis Fredman IR's, I can get some amazing tones. I use the Mercuriall TSC as a TS boost out front. I also used Peavey Revalver 4 for a long time and I thought it was great, I still do think it's the best all around amp sim software, but I get more organic and clear tones from the free VST's and IR's. They're definitely worth a shot, and with a good EQ you can get pretty much any tone.


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## linqua (Apr 8, 2017)

the best ones ive used are LePou and Thermionik. Everything else ive tried(freewise) is a noisy pile of garbage. i am using strictly rosen impulses right now, but i am looking into recabinet as well. both the LePou and Thermionik i have gotten to sound indistingushably close to the real counterparts, and im finding consistency across those as well, ie. the LePou Rectifier/XTC/etc sound consistent with characteristics of Thermionik equivalents. It seems to me the Thermionik plugins have more tweakability and sound a bit better, ive recently been using all thermionik stuff but depending on what i need at the time i wouldnt have any problem going to a LePou. My favorite thermionik are the M4 and Tangerine nightmare. I like the AC30 and dual rec models as well. imo those are great examples of very different sounds which are accurate to real world counterparts. same with LePou, maybe to a slightly lesser extent, but i will reiterate that the LePou rectifer is close to the Thermionik is close to the real world etc.

EDIT: i have yet to find a better bass amp sim than the ignite amps custom, and im using a free svt II 8x10 and SWR 115 sim i found in a big repository online so thats the only thing i use on bass. im curous about the rosen bass irs. the only thing i dont like about the rosen stuff is that i cant tweak mic positions and get for example fredman effect. other than that everything about them sounding and feeling natural and mix ready i find to be true.


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## Masoo2 (Apr 8, 2017)

schwiz said:


> There is so much back and forth about all these amp sims, its boggling my mind. The real factor in the amp sim tone equation is the IR's. ....ty IR's = ....ty tone. FWIW, I've found maybe 3 or 4 decent IR's after sifting through Bias, TSE, Amplitube and Revalver. 90% of the time, I always disable the cabinet simulation and load up my go to IR's (Fredman collection) in mixIR.
> 
> Use whatever amp sims you want, hell, even use Guitar Rig. But, invest in some decent IR's to get decent amp sim tone.



The problem with this is that I don't feel that we should "have" to use external IRs with an amp sim. With the amount of money some of these sims cost, you should except the cab models to be at least decent sounding.

That's why I tend to hate on BIAS so much. The stock IRs in it are nowhere near comparable to those found in TSE X50, TH3, or even POD Farm/JST stuff. They seem like a complete afterthought that just completely destroys the experience of using BIAS as someone who has gotten a little tired of using external IRs.



linqua said:


> EDIT: i have yet to find a better bass amp sim than the ignite amps custom, and im using a free svt II 8x10 and SWR 115 sim i found in a big repository online so thats the only thing i use on bass. im curous about the rosen bass irs. the only thing i dont like about the rosen stuff is that i cant tweak mic positions and get for example fredman effect. other than that everything about them sounding and feeling natural and mix ready i find to be true.



Have you gave Softube's Bass Amp Room a shot? I seem to be using it more and more on bass, generally as either an all around clean/lightly driven sound or as the low end fundamental for a modern split channel tone. 

For distortion/grind I just use whatever (TSE BOD, FabFilter Saturn, etc), EQ out the lows beforehand, and then run it into the POD Farm 1x15 Jazz Cab. 

If I do use an external bass cab IR, it's generally one from this free pack I found online of a VL-1002, SVT-810e, and Eden 4x10XLT. However, since most of the time I'm doing a split channel approach, I'll just use whatever stock cab is in Bass Amp Room or no cab at all for the lows.


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## Dantas (Apr 8, 2017)

I use the Emissary head from Ignite Amps, with a free Rosen IR, and I love the sound...but it helps that I use a Boss Power Stack pedal boosted by an OD and a Decimator gate in front of it, and don't use the amps dirty channel....highly recommended to use some distortion or OD pedals instead the VSTs dirty channel, so you can get a more organic sound.


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## niffnoff (Apr 9, 2017)

Masoo2 said:


> The problem with this is that I don't feel that we should "have" to use external IRs with an amp sim. With the amount of money some of these sims cost, you should except the cab models to be at least decent sounding.
> 
> That's why I tend to hate on BIAS so much. The stock IRs in it are nowhere near comparable to those found in TSE X50, TH3, or even POD Farm/JST stuff. They seem like a complete afterthought that just completely destroys the experience of using BIAS as someone who has gotten a little tired of using external IRs.



I think the argument that could be made here is this:

Do you think when it came down to it, they spent more time researching the amp behavior itself over the cab? Or, do you think guitarists really just use one cab in their life time. Sometimes, people will want to use a different microphone that you don't have at xyz angle.

Third party IR's are popular because they have EVERY single option with microphones that these amp sims may not have the time to implement. POD Farm's IR's were .... back in the day, once I heard of LeCab and IR's it gave me new options that Pod Farm never gave me until it's stock crap was gone from my life haha.

Nowadays these companies who sell full amp sims give you their most workable tones out of the box, but they know now people can give you those quality IR's. Rosen digital, Ownhammer, etc. They specialize in getting you those tweaks. 

I think that's why companies like Kazrog (Thermionik) let you buy just the amp heads instead of forcing you to get Recabinet. Everyone has their own ir's they can go to now.

My 2cents anyway.


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## tender_insanity (Apr 18, 2017)

I went and bought the ReValver 4 producer pack and the metal bundle + engl cabs.

I'm really happy with that set. Been making simple amp sounds and to my ears they sound really good. The Engl PBII, 6505 and Triple XXX are my favorite so far.

And having a e530 going to a cab sim only (Engl 4x12) is really good.

Money well spent IMO. I've tried many VST's and so far the ReValver 4 has been the best.


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## Ji Sung (May 24, 2017)

In my experience, LePou really can't be beat when it comes to freeware. Nick Crow's plugins are really good as long as you don't expect them to sound exactly like a 5150/6505.


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## Lindmann (May 24, 2017)

schwiz said:


> Taking the Peavy 5150 (or similar) from all 4 of those amp sims produces damn near the same results for me with the same set of IR's. So the arguments about amp sim X being complete .... compared to amp sim Y seems to minuscule in the grand scheme of "tone chasing".


Exactly.
I doesn't really matter what amp sim you choose. 
It is a non-factor compared to the importance of the IR.

I would choose Guitar Rig though.
The stock cab simulations suck (which you will deacticate anyway), but it comes with a a great range of effects and stuff which makes it a super versatile amp sim.


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## Carl Kolchak (May 25, 2017)

I've tried an number of amp sims, both free and commercial, but always end up going back to the POD amp sims. Of course the POD cab sims on their own are lacking. This is why I like to mix them using the old Catharsis IRs run through a Recabinet 4 preset. 

Also, I found using a real tube screamer-type OD pedal is practically mandatory when using amp sims.


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## fearlessguster (Jun 13, 2017)

My go to these days is the TSE X50, it is super solid and versatile and just works in most mixes better than most other sims I've tried. 

If the x50 isn't doing it for me, I'll reach for the JST stuff. Jason Richardson is great, really smooth top end on the distortion, and I almost always use the clean channel on this sim for all my clean tones. Menace and Guilty Pleasure are great as well. 

Surprisingly I am finding I really like waves GTR also. If I use Jason Richardson I will almost always add the shredder amp in GTR high passed just to add more clarity and definition. 

But as several people have already mentioned, I think the Cab IR is almost more important than the amp sim. A good IR makes all the difference. Personally I love Redwirez, my go-to is the Mesa 4x12 sm57 1" from the cap edge.


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## Carl Kolchak (Jun 23, 2017)

fearlessguster said:


> If the x50 isn't doing it for me, I'll reach for the JST stuff. Jason Richardson is great, really smooth top end on the distortion, and I almost always use the clean channel on this sim for all my clean tones. Menace and Guilty Pleasure are great as well.



At $80 a pop, you'd think they'd at least offer a demo version to try out first.


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## schwiz (Jun 23, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> At $80 a pop, you'd think they'd at least offer a demo version to try out first.


I love JST plugins but I think the Toneforge amp sims are not good at all. Don't waste your money on them. However, gain reduction, sub destroyer, tominator, and jst clip are fkin phenomenal.


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## Carl Kolchak (Jun 25, 2017)

schwiz said:


> I love JST plugins but I think the Toneforge amp sims are not good at all. Don't waste your money on them. However, gain reduction, sub destroyer, tominator, and jst clip are fkin phenomenal.


All the YT demos I've seen make them sound excessively fake, almost like a parodies of amp sim tones.

Speaking of amp sims, I tried revisiting the LePou stuff, more specifically the Le456. It took some fiddling, but I was eventually able to get one the better amp sims tones I've gotten yet out of it. Noticeably better sounding than anything L6/BIAS/TSE X50/Mercurial I've tried to date.


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## schwiz (Jun 26, 2017)

What I would like to know is...

How many people that have responded to this thread are using a DI box and not just plugging straight into their interface preamp???

If you're not, and don't have any hardware in your chain that is setting impedance, you have no grounds for proving 1 amp sim better over another, or telling me why your tone sucks with amp sim X.  Typically if there is a problem, its at the source.


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## pete-strych (Jun 29, 2017)

I was always one of those tube amp guys, who lives for the glassy tone of glowing valves & touch sensitive response of a hand-wired amp. I began really using amp sims when I built my new studio. They inspire me!! When writing songs, I sometimes try out a new amp sim just to create something different. I'm currently using Amplitube 4, EZ Mix2, and Schuffam S-Gear2 which was included with Slate Everything Bundle. A-Gear is incredible! That was a surprise....at least just how realistic it sounded. Amplitube is really cool with the different rooms, blended mic placements, swapping out individual speakers in amp cabs, etc. I love the graphics too. I think you need to really tweak the settings to build a great sound with Amplitube, but I've had excellent results. EZ Mix guitar packs are for when I'm feeling lazy, lol. But seriously, I've used the Metal Guitar Gods 3 pack also with above expectation results. Keith Merrow settings rock! No matter which plugin I use, hardly ever do they sound stellar right out of the gate...they take a bit of virtual dial spinning to fine tune the tone. But, taking the time to do this can truly pay off in the end.


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## thevisi0nary (Jun 29, 2017)

schwiz said:


> What I would like to know is...
> 
> How many people that have responded to this thread are using a DI box and not just plugging straight into their interface preamp???
> 
> If you're not, and don't have any hardware in your chain that is setting impedance, you have no grounds for proving 1 amp sim better over another, or telling me why your tone sucks with amp sim X.  Typically if there is a problem, its at the source.



My experience is somewhere in between decent and modest, but when I did an a/b between my interface input and using a d.i I didn't find any difference other than more gain.


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## Carl Kolchak (Jun 30, 2017)

thevisi0nary said:


> My experience is somewhere in between decent and modest, but when I did an a/b between my interface input and using a d.i I didn't find any difference other than more gain.



The difference in signal quality for me is more dramatic sounding when using the mic pres. By comparison, the instrument in on my USB interface produces tones which are noticeably deficient in the highs and lows (Imagine a HP filter set too high at around like 500 and LP filter set too low at around like 4K, and you'll get the picture.) with the result being an over-concentration of scratchy-sounding mids. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why the tone I was monitoring through my headphones never sounded as full when recorded. Then I started using a DI box/mic in and the sonic situation began to improve.


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## thevisi0nary (Jun 30, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> The difference in signal quality for me is more dramatic sounding when using the mic pres. By comparison, the instrument in on my USB interface produces tones which are noticeably deficient in the highs and lows (Imagine a HP filter set too high at around like 500 and LP filter set too low at around like 4K, and you'll get the picture.) with the result being an over-concentration of scratchy-sounding mids. For the longest time I couldn't figure out why the tone I was monitoring through my headphones never sounded as full when recorded. Then I started using a DI box/mic in and the sonic situation began to improve.



What interface are you using?


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## Carl Kolchak (Jun 30, 2017)

thevisi0nary said:


> What interface are you using?


An old L6 UX1


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## pattonfreak1 (Jul 1, 2017)

<-------Still rockin PODFarm


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## thevisi0nary (Jul 2, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> An old L6 UX1



Yeah that is a very old interface, I think any modern budget interface would have a very competent hi.z


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## Metropolis (Jul 3, 2017)

Again it shows how crucial the cab modeling is, and how others work better with some other amp simulations, while some don't. Overloud TH3 has done definetly something right with their own cabs. I don't really know if I want to use 3rd party IR's with this anymore, they're that good.

Couple of my favorite tones from ForTiorl:


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## tender_insanity (Jul 21, 2017)

I've enjoyed Guitar Rig 5 for a while now. With third party impulses (mainly 3sigma) I can get really good lower gain sounds (JTM, JCM800 etc). When in need of higher gain, Peavey ReValver 4 kicks butt, though.


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## Backsnack (Jul 23, 2017)

I made a thread about this a while back for sort of an underdog choice for amp sim/impulse modeling.

https://www.bluecataudio.com/Presets/Product_Destructor/

Picked it up on sale when it was first released. Very reasonable at $70.

It sounds really amazing for clean/crunch tones. Still undecided whether or not I like it as much as TSE for a good high gain/metal tone. Though I think with some tweaking, it might do really well.

@schwiz and @Metropolis -- I totally agree with your opinions about how IRs can make or a break a simulated guitar sound. I became a believer in that once I realized the awesome things that Two Notes Wall of Sound can do.

Also, @Metropolis, there seems to be an emphasis on using EQ as well.


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## worcester7 (Aug 1, 2017)

Until I read here I thought I was the only one that struggled to get something usable out of BIAS. Makes me feel a bit better now! Whilst I'll use it for some cleans here and there, I've given up on getting anything remotely near usable for a heavy tone. Almost tempted to uninstall it as I feel like I can get reasonable enough replacements just out of EZMix 2.

Really liking the JSTs - Jason Richardson, Menace and Guilty Pleasure. Dig the TSE X50 too. Wouldn't mind trying out the U530 but I'm pretty conscious that I'm spending more of my time shopping (and then endlessly tweaking) than actually playing, writing and recording! Maybe that'll be the last one... for now


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## Carl Kolchak (Aug 1, 2017)

worcester7 said:


> Until I read here I thought I was the only one that struggled to get something usable out of BIAS. Makes me feel a bit better now! Whilst I'll use it for some cleans here and there, I've given up on getting anything remotely near usable for a heavy tone. Almost tempted to uninstall it as I feel like I can get reasonable enough replacements just out of EZMix 2.
> 
> Really liking the JSTs - Jason Richardson, Menace and Guilty Pleasure. Dig the TSE X50 too. Wouldn't mind trying out the U530 but I'm pretty conscious that I'm spending more of my time shopping (and then endlessly tweaking) than actually playing, writing and recording! Maybe that'll be the last one... for now



I'd been working with BIAS FX for a while trying to get a usable heavy tone and was getting no where. In fact, I was downright frustrated. So much so that I was considering just uninstalling it and never looking back. Anyways, a couple of months ago I checked back in to see if anyone had posted any better sounding patches, and to my surprise, they had. Seems people got to posting their "matched" amp and cabs, and the results were noticeably better sounding than BIAS' stock patches.

My advice, take another look at the patches people are posting with special attention given to any based around non-stock amp sims.

Three other things I'd recommend, and those are,
1) Use the dual amp function
2) Put a slight delay on one of the amps
3) Add a chorus to your signal chain


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## worcester7 (Aug 2, 2017)

Carl Kolchak said:


> I'd been working with BIAS FX for a while trying to get a usable heavy tone and was getting no where. In fact, I was downright frustrated. So much so that I was considering just uninstalling it and never looking back. Anyways, a couple of months ago I checked back in to see if anyone had posted any better sounding patches, and to my surprise, they had. Seems people got to posting their "matched" amp and cabs, and the results were noticeably better sounding than BIAS' stock patches.
> 
> My advice, take another look at the patches people are posting with special attention given to any based around non-stock amp sims.
> 
> ...



Nice advice, cheers Carl - maybe I'll not uninstall it then 

That said, I caved and picked up the U530 and, so far, I absolutely love it. So unless anything that comes along that's truly astonishing, I think I'll be focusing more attention on good quality plugins and IRs rather than amp sims.


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## Carl Kolchak (Aug 2, 2017)

worcester7 said:


> Nice advice, cheers Carl - maybe I'll not uninstall it then
> 
> That said, I caved and picked up the U530 and, so far, I absolutely love it. So unless anything that comes along that's truly astonishing, I think I'll be focusing more attention on good quality plugins and IRs rather than amp sims.



Have you checked out Celestion's IRs yet?


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## Metropolis (Aug 2, 2017)

I wouldn't personally use dual amps and slight delay methdod if you want to record something, and using chorus in rhytm sounds would make things sound like undefined mess. But it sounds huge when playing alone, that's where it's good thing to do. Very slight reverb in single amp situation to simulate room acoustics is one thing to consider, something like 200ms room reverb.


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## Dead-Pan (Aug 3, 2017)

IR tech is developing!

Please check it:

https://livereadysound.com

Free sample pack available!!!


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## Steinmetzify (Aug 3, 2017)

Dude does good IRs guys. Grab that free sample pack for sure.


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## cw2908 (Aug 3, 2017)

I've been able to blend TSE into live 5150 recordings, and my bandmates did not even notice.


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## Sanrek (Aug 5, 2017)

Still using the good ol' LeCto, TSE 808, and NC 8505 into Torpedo WOS (with 3rd party IRs) when I need to do some quick checks on DIs/etc.


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## tender_insanity (Aug 19, 2017)

Sold my Engl E530 and got myself the Overloud TH3. Really good tones in there too.


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## worcester7 (Aug 22, 2017)

Now I have my new Jackson 7-string back from its setup (as it was rubbish out of the box) I've been having a play about and currently, the U530 is my sim of choice - a great piece of software. I'll never stop being tempted to buy more but for now I think I'm done so I can focus on actually playing, recording, and having fun


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## billinder33 (Aug 23, 2017)

Downloaded TSE demo and was totally blown away by how good the high gain sounds are, bought the full version and adding some verb/delay via the rack effects totally make the sound. 

Also own a L6 HD500, the NI Suite, the Waves suite, Amplitude... but none of these come close to TSE. The TSE has a really smooth, non-grainy high end that you just don't get in other modeling apps. 

TSE is second only to my Kemper.... and that's very high praise.


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## Steinmetzify (Aug 24, 2017)

Just bought a new laptop/monitor setup....been doing orchestral stuff lately and some of those libraries are huge so I needed more space. Then came the task of deciding what I actually wanted on the new one. 

For guitar sims, the only ones that made the cut were both from Mercuriall....the U530 and their Spark. 

Everything else got dumped, even stuff I've paid for. I can get basically any tone I want out of those two. They're easy to use, sound great, both have built in FX.


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## Steinmetzify (Sep 17, 2017)

Grabbed the Overloud TH3 demo, pretty impressed. One problem. 

Sent the link to a buddy I trade back and forth for demos, riffs etc....weird thing, one of us will come up with a good tone, take a screenshot, send it to the other and it sounds like total ass on the other guy's end. 

This has happened 3 times now...we each have the exact same guitar, pickups etc and I've actually gone over to his house and dialed the thing in on his computer so I know it's not user error. 

Anyone else notice this?


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## Metropolis (Sep 17, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> Grabbed the Overloud TH3 demo, pretty impressed. One problem.
> 
> Sent the link to a buddy I trade back and forth for demos, riffs etc....weird thing, one of us will come up with a good tone, take a screenshot, send it to the other and it sounds like total ass on the other guy's end.
> 
> ...



Can you make it as preset file and share it in dropbox or something? I would be intrested what is going on. It could be difference in audio interfaces, TH3's settings, cab modeling or just a bug in software and corrupted presets. I had terrible problem a while ago with TH3, the whole software crashed when changing presets, just after they updated to new version. Couple of days after they updated to most recent version, then this problem disappeared.


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## Steinmetzify (Sep 17, 2017)

Dude this is the interesting part to me. 

We have the exact same interfaces, both use Reaper etc...and like I said, use the exact same guitar. 

Only difference is he's using Windows 7 and I'm on 10. 

I did export those two presets and email them to him, and they worked instantly. No clue what's going on with this thing but I don't like it.


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## Elric (Sep 18, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> Grabbed the Overloud TH3 demo, pretty impressed. One problem.
> 
> Sent the link to a buddy I trade back and forth for demos, riffs etc....weird thing, one of us will come up with a good tone, take a screenshot, send it to the other and it sounds like total ass on the other guy's end.
> 
> ...


No.  Consider it a bump, brotha.


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## Mprinsje (Sep 26, 2017)

I use Bias mostly, but i do only use my own amps that i've matched in there, sounds pretty good that way.

Sometimes i also use Amplitube, and while the stock models are pretty terrible, some of the "custom shop" stuff is pretty good, like the mesa/orange/fender packs.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Sep 26, 2017)

I've now moved on to using BIAS FX with an IR loader to run cabinet IRs without having to buy BIAS HEAD Pro to get the in-built IR loader. Best decision I've ever made, and it was FREE.


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## vejichan (Oct 1, 2017)

How do I load 3rd part IRS with biasfx?


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## AkiraSpectrum (Oct 1, 2017)

vejichan said:


> How do I load 3rd part IRS with biasfx?



You can only load IR's if you have BIAS AMP Professional. 
I only have Bias FX Standard so what I do is run Bias FX and turn off the cabinet modelling (at the very top of the cab selection box--'no cabinet'), then I load an IR Loader (there are many out there, but I use Rosen Digital's 'Pulse' IR Loader). Thus, the amp is being modeled by Bias FX and its going into the IR Loader where I can use my IR's for cab emulation. 

The only issue is that any effects that go 'in the effects loop' (reverb, delay, chorus, etc.) sound odd because they require the cab emulation to come first. I've tried loading another instance of Bias FX after RD's Pulse IR Loader and turn off everything and then add the effects that way but it doesn't seem to work.
Thus, I can only use the IR Loader if I'm playing without any effects in the loop. If I want to use effects in the loop I use the built-in cab models of Bias Fx. 

Hope this helps.


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## vejichan (Oct 8, 2017)

Thanks ...I have biasfx pro...any reason to get bias amp pro? I have no amps to profile and I don’t do any deep editing wth the amps


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## niffnoff (Oct 8, 2017)

vejichan said:


> Thanks ...I have biasfx pro...any reason to get bias amp pro? I have no amps to profile and I don’t do any deep editing wth the amps



I mean, you answered your own question. 

Bias Amp is great if you want to tone match (pro) but if you absolutely don't need it, then just go on the cloud and get one from someone elses match. But fwiw you could also tone match yourself with some of the eq's that are now out there these days...


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## AkiraSpectrum (Oct 9, 2017)

vejichan said:


> Thanks ...I have biasfx pro...any reason to get bias amp pro? I have no amps to profile and I don’t do any deep editing wth the amps



BIAS Amp Pro will give you the IR Loader and allow you to amp-match. If you're also really into 'tweaking' and getting a very specific tone BIAS allows you to swap amp components (tubes, transformers, etc.) in any of the amp models. In addition, you will also get a new selection of amp models.


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## Emperoff (Nov 16, 2017)

Bumping this thread just to say that since I got Mercuriall's Spark and U530 I haven't touched anything else. Just wow...


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## Steinmetzify (Nov 17, 2017)

Damn good video man. I love both those plugins and can’t wait for their TriAxis sim.


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