# Doug speaks about BlackMachine Guitars...



## anarki (May 3, 2011)

Ok I'm prepared to be battered with neg rep for this post.




Well EXCUSE ME PRINCESS. But if this isn't the pot calling the kettle black.

"they copy the no paint, they copy the chamfer, they copy the headstock, they copy everything"

Well done for pointing out that people have taken some of your ideas and used them in their own builds. In the same way you yourself have taken ideas and used them in your own company.

I remember talking to Doug about commissioning a B2 in 2003 and the price he quoted was £1100 with no definite build time. I considered it but at the time I had an ESP M2 available for the same price from a friend (i took the ESP)
and Doug agreed, he actually said that ESP was one of his inspirations for building guitars and I should go with it.

When I saw this video I couldn't help but  at his indignation at people copying "his" ideas, when his guitars are clearly amalgamations of Ibanez RG body, Parker fly neck and ESP head stock.

Feel free to call me out if you disagree


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## signalgrey (May 3, 2011)

hooooo boy..this is sounds like flame bait. good luck sir.


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## -Nolly- (May 3, 2011)

He's talking about people copying parts of his design without knowing _why_ it works


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## Chickenhawk (May 3, 2011)

Calm down 

This video is a re-post, and nobody (including the Blackmachine cynics) had anything negative to say, so why does it deserve its own hate thread?

EDIT:

Nolly: quit posting and finish your damned album 

I need new music to jam to


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## CrushingAnvil (May 3, 2011)

I appreciate where you're coming from, OP, although you misconstrued what he was getting at slightly.


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## Prydogga (May 3, 2011)

Inspiration is driven through Imitation. Just because his builds *looks* similar to other guitars, does not make him unoriginal. Everything he builds has a purpose, if a design element is changed, there is a reason. He isn't simply building to someone elses spec/understanding of the elements used.

Also, since when are his necks Parker style? He uses thick strips of wenge on high quality rosewood, with bolt on joints, not heel-less neckthrough carbon fibre. 

I can't see any similarity to ESP headstocks either...


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## Curt (May 3, 2011)

He's pretty much right, most people DON'T know why it works.

I don't really know much else than not painting the guitar plus whatever goes on inside the guitar helps it to resonate more freely giving off a "bigger" overall sound. as for the headstock, I have no idea why.. I just think it looks cool. lol


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## Adam Of Angels (May 3, 2011)

So dude is about his self. Good for him. Don't be jealous of self-respect. He's a guitar builder, not a public figure or a notable genius with standards to live up to - leave him to his work and cockiness if it's what gets him by.


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## Curt (May 3, 2011)

Chickenhawk said:


> Calm down
> 
> This video is a re-post, and nobody (including the Blackmachine cynics) had anything negative to say, so why does it deserve its own hate thread?
> 
> ...



Giant +1 to this entire post.


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## Chickenhawk (May 3, 2011)

Since I missed this earlier:

Blackmachine headstocks are a modified/reversed Parker headstock. That is the only similarity I see between Parker and BM...not the neck.

Maybe I should let a BM owner *coughNOLLYcoughcoughBULB* chime in...but I doubt this thread will last long enough for them too...

Well, unless Nolly wants to keep _NOT_ working on the RSF album, and post here


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## Curt (May 3, 2011)

I would like to get a blackmachine eventually.... just don't have that kind of money..


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## Thrashmanzac (May 3, 2011)

of course people are going to copy something if it looks sexy to them, what is it people say about imitation a flattery?


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## vampiregenocide (May 3, 2011)

The overall design of the Blackmachine is unique, which I think it what he is referring to, though it has certainly drawn inspiration for other guitars.


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## ShadyDavey (May 3, 2011)

"No-one really knows why" but it works and therefore it's going to be copied.

Nothing surprising about that in the slightest is there?

*shrug*


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## sk3ks1s (May 3, 2011)

Doug's black?


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## gunshow86de (May 3, 2011)

sk3ks1s said:


> Doug's black?



What, you think a black man can't build nice guitars?


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## anarki (May 3, 2011)

-Nolly- said:


> He's talking about people copying parts of his design without knowing _why_ it works


The irony of this is what strikes me.


Chickenhawk said:


> Calm down
> 
> This video is a re-post, and nobody (including the Blackmachine cynics) had anything negative to say, so why does it deserve its own hate thread?
> 
> ...


It's not a hate thread, I dont hate BM guitars


CrushingAnvil said:


> I appreciate where you're coming from, OP, although you misconstrued what he was getting at slightly.


Maybe I misconstrued the context in which he says the things he does, but he still said them.


Prydogga said:


> Inspiration is driven through Imitation. Just because his builds *looks* similar to other guitars, does not make him unoriginal. Everything he builds has a purpose, if a design element is changed, there is a reason. He isn't simply building to someone elses spec/understanding of the elements used.
> 
> Also, since when are his necks Parker style? He uses thick strips of wenge on high quality rosewood, with bolt on joints, not heel-less neckthrough carbon fibre.
> 
> I can't see any similarity to ESP headstocks either...


Composite necks, the Reverse ESP head stock with a Parker style cut away?





LOL forgive the lameness of this pic but im no artist and I just quicky illustrated the head stocks original shape with the red indicating where the design comes from.


signalgrey said:


> hooooo boy..this is sounds like flame bait. good luck sir.



ikr



gunshow86de said:


> What, you think a black man can't build nice guitars?



I wasn't quick enough posting my replies to the other stuff to see this.

OBVIOUSLY the lack of Watermelon or KFC finish as an option on the guitars left him confused as to Doug's blackness.

THEY COPY THE NO PAINT.

THEY BE HATIN'




Prydogga said:


> I think an important thing is builders copy the more obvious aesthetics, while leaving some of the main factors that _make_ a Blackmachine, I'm not saying that is what Doug is implying though. I'm just saying, no one would ever make a Blackmachine exactly the same as Doug can, not necessarily due to his skill, more the details only he would see having time spent on, but I'm not disregarding his skill either.
> 
> Also, those are some pretty daring cuts made to that ESP headstock. I could apply two lines to most in line headstocks to claim one headstock copies another.



I know i didn't do my creation artistic justice but this should exemplify what i said even more clearly


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## Prydogga (May 3, 2011)

I think an important thing is builders copy the more obvious aesthetics, while leaving some of the main factors that _make_ a Blackmachine, I'm not saying that is what Doug is implying though. I'm just saying, no one would ever make a Blackmachine exactly the same as Doug can, not necessarily due to his skill, more the details only he would see having time spent on, but I'm not disregarding his skill either.

Also, those are some pretty daring cuts made to that ESP headstock. I could apply two lines to most in line headstocks to claim one headstock copies another.


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## avenger (May 3, 2011)

sk3ks1s said:


> Doug's black?


 Its a blackmachine not a whitemachine...


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## anarki (May 3, 2011)

avenger said:


> Its a blackmachine not a whitemachine...



Well we know that blackmachines cant leave whitemachines women alone so If you put a BM in a room with a WM you'll get a new guitar in approximately 9 months.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 3, 2011)

I enjoyed the video 

That guitar is amazing.


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## anarki (May 3, 2011)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I enjoyed the video
> 
> That guitar is amazing.



The first part of the video in the diezel amps room sounds like ass. I dont think that video does justice to either the amps or the guitar imo.

the quality is too low.


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## signalgrey (May 3, 2011)

TIL i learned that this is not Doug from Blackmachine. hahahahaha. It even cleary says Clive...sigh. my powers of observation are dwindling.

he did sound a bit smug in that video about people copying him.


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## jymellis (May 3, 2011)

havent gotten to play one of these guitars. love seein my dude fred  \m/


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## jymellis (May 3, 2011)

signalgrey said:


> TIL i learned that this is not Doug from Blackmachine. hahahahaha. It even cleary says Clive...sigh. my powers of observation are dwindling.
> 
> he did sound a bit smug in that video about people copying him.





 that was awesome! his only real gripes where he has to trim the string and actives. says it wasnt built as well, but didnt point anything out.

not saying blackmachine is bad. just happy to see how a good ibanez stacks against a semi-custom that costs 2x as much $$$


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## s_k_mullins (May 3, 2011)

I have no idea what the video or the argument is about...
I was distracted by Scarlett Johansson nudging her left breast with her arm in the 2nd post 

Also, Doug's Blackmachine creations are amazing. I'm sure that all of his design elements are there for a particular purpose, and he doesn't want people just copying his designs without even understanding the purpose or science behind them.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (May 3, 2011)

anarki said:


> The first part of the video in the diezel amps room sounds like ass. I dont think that video does justice to either the amps or the guitar imo.
> 
> the quality is too low.



My friend's camera couldn't handle the volume pressure, it was too high and therefore clipping as hell. After Doug's speech the other vidz are recorded with an iphone, which handles high volumes much better.

Anyway, to each their own, but believe me Doug is a genuine and passionate builder, and really knows what he's talking about.


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## anarki (May 3, 2011)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Anyway, to each their own, but believe me Doug is a genuine and passionate builder, and really knows what he's talking about.



They copy the no paint... 

Enlightening stuff.


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## Randy (May 3, 2011)

Ask anybody on the mod team... we don't kiss ass to any builders on here, so don't take this as the SSO Blackmachine Fanboi Brigade, but "I made this thread to complain" subjects don't usually last very long here. 

You've got a point but with the kind of price-tag and wait times behind Doug's business, there's obviously a reason beyond bandwagoning that people purchase his guitars. There are a few companies who have definitely tried to capitalize on the aesthetics of his design without implementing the actual ideologies behind them.


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