# Keith Merrow leaves S7



## s4tch (Feb 14, 2013)

Check this for more images and comments:
https://www.facebook.com/keith.merrow1/posts/574128132615890



> I get a ton of emails asking me what happened to my "sig model" guitar with a certain brand. That, or wanting me to help them spec a guitar from said brand. I try so hard to avoid it, honestly. I'm trying to remain as diplomatic as possible, but at the same time, I'm not going to lie to my friends and followers. I left this company because I can't put my name on any product that I don't believe in. So, if you really need me to help you make an informed decision, have a look for yourself. I'm not trying to cause any drama, just keeping it real. So many people these days are saving up their hard earned cash to order a custom guitar. Make sure you do ample research before you pull the trigger. Just sharing my experience. I may have just had bad luck, as there are many happy owners of these instruments. But, two defective guitars in a row is enough for me.
> 
> It was a very exciting idea that just didn't end well. Bums me out, because I truly like that whole crew.
> 
> But, so many people have asked me what the deal is... so there you have it.


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## crg123 (Feb 14, 2013)

Well there goes Strictly 7's reputation... haha. My friend is on the list to get a Boden, I think this might discourage him. He owned a cobra 8 and wasn't very impressed with it but they seem to be a good company. I'm surprised they would let these kind of craft issues pass inspection. I wish them luck, Keith has a lot of followers so this is a big blow to their company :/


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## Overtone (Feb 14, 2013)

But what about their glorious CNC machine? 

Good for him for having the guts to speak his mind instead of keeping quiet so as not to jeopardize future rides on the custom endorsements gravytrain. Not to mention giving up potential income on the sig model.


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## themike (Feb 14, 2013)

Same thing happened to Pat Sheridan from FFAA


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## elq (Feb 14, 2013)

crg123 said:


> Well there goes Strictly 7's reputation...



Strictly 7's reputation kinda sucked before this, well, except for people that only played really cheap guitars before.


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## JPMike (Feb 14, 2013)

elq said:


> Strictly 7's reputation kinda sucked before this, well, except for people that only played really cheap guitars before.



+1 

I never liked the way they look, neither the name they chose to sport as a company. So many shitty builders acting pro luthiers.


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## Papaoneil (Feb 14, 2013)

Are you having flashbacks of the Rico E?


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## SkullCrusher (Feb 14, 2013)

*joins Mayones*

watch this space.


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## poopyalligator (Feb 14, 2013)

I never liked their guitars, and I never really knew about their quality flaws until now. More reason not to like them now.


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## themike (Feb 14, 2013)

I just went on the S7 sight and noticed that the Chimp Spanner sig is gone, and so is the DL signature..... also thought it previously mentioned a Josh Travis signature too in the past.


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## thrsher (Feb 14, 2013)

i know they are redoing the site but is till see josh and allan etc on the artist section of the site


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## feilong29 (Feb 14, 2013)

Been VERY curious as to why he hasn't been playing his signature or endorsing them... I will say that the Strictly 7 I had was pretty nice, but, the ONLY person I see playing their guitar(s) is Ola Englund... oh well, nice to hear a first hand account from someone credible and influential. And their site has been in 'upgrade' for a while now.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 14, 2013)

I think Keith said he put an end to his model a while ago. I vaguely remember that, anyway.

Listen, I've had some really cool Strictly 7's, but I would still rather have almost any Prestige I've played.


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## mphsc (Feb 14, 2013)

so so glad I held off, going S7 route. something just didn't sit right, even though Jim is as nice as a pot 'o gold.


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## baptizedinblood (Feb 14, 2013)

Saw it coming from a mile away. I see a Mayones endorsement in the near future.


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## Minoin (Feb 14, 2013)

I think its good Merrow is honest about this stuff. I know he isn't generally a whiny, so he probably thought this move through. 

Anyway, I never liked the heel of the S7's I saw. I've seen some nice guitars coming from them, but it's always just pictures. It's a total different thing to live the guitar and feel it over the course of a year. Apparently, this is what happens..

Very sad


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## sell2792 (Feb 14, 2013)

Didn't this happen like months ago? His sig looked sick, but I can't believe they'd send him a lemon, let alone two.


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## baptizedinblood (Feb 14, 2013)

This was probably the nail to the coffin for S7, sad to say. I still don't understand why Ola is dealing with them, let alone trusting his design with them.


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## GXPO (Feb 14, 2013)

I remember him stating that they had different expectations a few months ago. Like, they expected him to play the guitar in his vids and he expected it to not fall apart.. Shame really, the white Ola Sig is sexy.


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## C-PIG (Feb 14, 2013)

i played a friends s7 cobra brand new fret work was horrible he needed to get it sent out to get completely leveled . merrow is a stand up guy for trying not to put down s7 but really they should have made sure those guitars were top notch before they left the factory .


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## HighGain510 (Feb 14, 2013)

crg123 said:


> My friend is on the list to get a Boden, I think this might discourage him. He owned a cobra 8 and wasn't very impressed with it but they seem to be a good company.



So wait... your buddy had a guitar built by Strictly 7, wasn't impressed with it... then proceeded to order yet another one?   Ummm.... 

Saw this coming a mile away, I've made a few comments to try to help folks to see issues with some S7 stuff in the past so they didn't make the mistake of taking ownership of someone else's problem guitar, some listened and some didn't.  From the hi-res shots many owners have posted with clearly-visible issues/flaws showing, to the multiple re-builds, to the insta-flips going on with so many of them, right down to a few folks I know/trust informing me about serious flaws they had with the S7 guitars they had owned. 

It was inevitable that it would finally get really public once an owner like Keith actually stepped forward and told the truth since he has nothing to lose from being honest about it. Problem is most of the guys who owned them and found issues with the guitars didn't pass on said information until AFTER they sell off their guitars. Don't want to go hurting that re-sale value before you can get rid of it, apparently...   

I know lots of guys are going ga-ga over the Boden line because it's a more affordable version of the .Strandberg* design and with the promise of a shorter build time than a real .Strandberg* would take, but you're gambling when you buy one as it's more like you're purchasing a " .Strictly7* " guitar in the end.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 14, 2013)

mphsc said:


> so so glad I held off, going S7 route. something just didn't sit right, even though Jim is as nice as a pot 'o gold.




When you're a paying customer, it's rare that you'll be treated badly by a company owner.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 14, 2013)

baptizedinblood said:


> This was probably the nail to the coffin for S7, sad to say. I still don't understand why Ola is dealing with them, let alone trusting his design with them.



Probably because he's not a high profile player.


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## simonXsludge (Feb 14, 2013)

Bummer to hear this. I never liked their guitars much, but the Boden series intrigued me.


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## Gilbertsgotbrootz (Feb 14, 2013)

Given I don't have mine anymore it wasn't bad at all I owned it well over 6 months and never had a problem even went cross country twice Sure it wasn't the nicest guitar but it was build well . But after owning the 2 mayones I have now I would rather have a mayones 365 days out of the year for sure .


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## eaeolian (Feb 14, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Probably because he's not a high profile player.



I dunno, he's the ONLY person on this forum that anyone outside the metal community has ever mentioned to me. I think that makes him higher profile than most everyone here.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 14, 2013)

HighGain510 said:


> Problem is most of the guys who owned them and found issues with the guitars didn't pass on said information until AFTER they sell off their guitars. Don't want to go hurting that re-sale value before you can get rid of it, apparently...



Like I mentioned many times, I've had some really cool Strictly 7's, and a couple that were exceptional compared to the others (in a good way), but I would still take a Prestige, ESP, etc. in place of them (except for the blue 7 and exotic 6 I had - those were very cool. Also, the 8 string that Fred now has was a pretty cool guitar). I think most guys that got them and didn't like them just assumed the guitars weren't their thing.. The neck shape itself is a love it or hate it thing, so it's not inconceivable that somebody who just bought one new would try to move it along to somebody who might appreciate it for a similar price to the original. However, it goes without saying that selling a guitar with build flaws, and not mentioning those flaws in the ad, is in poor taste no matter what.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 14, 2013)

eaeolian said:


> I dunno, he's the ONLY person on this forum that anyone outside the metal community has ever mentioned to me. I think that makes him higher profile than most everyone here.



Than most, sure, but he's still not so high profile that I would expect him to have a signature model with someone other than a small company like Strictly 7. That's the point I was getting at.


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## Philligan (Feb 14, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Probably because he's not a high profile player.



Strandberg, I believe he means.

This is a bummer, but glad Keith was honest and put it out there. They are genuinely nice dudes, but I think they just bit off more than they could chew. People like Ola and Darren have long wait lists, but they don't rush themselves and make sure they do it right the first time.


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## HighGain510 (Feb 14, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Than most, sure, but he's still not so high profile that I would expect him to have a signature model with someone other than a small company like Strictly 7. That's the point I was getting at.



Ummm Ola has a signature model AMPLIFIER coming from Randall. I'd say US Musicorp is a decent-sized company in the industry...


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## leonardo7 (Feb 14, 2013)

Hopefully people will wake up now and buy say a used Jackson Custom Shop 7 from ebay or from the classifieds on here before throwing money at some shotty custom shop in the future. Do you homework, either order a Mayones and wait for it or get a used Jackson CS 7 right now. That's where its at!


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 14, 2013)

HighGain510 said:


> Ummm Ola has a signature model AMPLIFIER coming from Randall. I'd say US Musicorp is a decent-sized company in the industry...



That's news to me. Musicorp is a big company, even if Randall isn't as much of a household name as other amplifiers. This still doesn't change what I said - I would expect him to have a signature model from a company like Strictly 7, or any of the other somewhat-known small-builder companies, as opposed to any of the standard brands everybody knows. I'm saying its not surprising that he isn't with a bigger, more reputable company.


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## technomancer (Feb 14, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Hopefully people will wake up now and buy say a used Jackson Custom Shop 7 from ebay or from the classifieds on here before throwing money at some shotty custom shop in the future. Do you homework, either order a Mayones and wait for it or get a used Jackson CS 7 right now. That's where its at!



In other words the guitars you've been trying to sell recently


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 14, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Hopefully people will wake up now and buy say a used Jackson Custom Shop 7 from ebay or from the classifieds on here before throwing money at some shotty custom shop in the future. Do you homework, either order a Mayones and wait for it or get a used Jackson CS 7 right now. That's where its at!




You're a bum 

But seriously, you can buy a used JP7 for less than what a new Strictly 7 would cost... The latter will not be a better guitar.


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## LoopQuantum (Feb 14, 2013)

I had an arrangement with S7 a while back for an "endorsement" style deal when my band was still together. I spec'd my guitar out (fairly similar to Merrows, coincidentally enough, but with a few tweaks), and got the price from them, which was amazingly good. Along the lines of "build cost" or something close, under the idea that I would play out with it, and demo it, etc. Paul DeMaio was awesome to work with, and I'd still buy him a beer if we ran into each other....though he's with Randall now. 

Ended up not doing the deal, for various reasons, and then the band broke up. Looking back, it seems I may have been spared, lol. 

I'd like to see these guys get on track. They're all good dudes. I've dealt with Jim too, and he's super cool. This is a bummer.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 14, 2013)

Philligan said:


> Strandberg, I believe he means.
> 
> This is a bummer, but glad Keith was honest and put it out there. They are genuinely nice dudes, but I think they just bit off more than they could chew. People like Ola and Darren have long wait lists, but they don't rush themselves and make sure they do it right the first time.



Ooooh, we're talking about Strandberg? Well, yeah, I am also scratching my head over that one.


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## leonardo7 (Feb 14, 2013)

technomancer said:


> In other words the guitars you've been trying to sell recently



At least I didnt post any links 

Id still take a Jackson CS, KxK, Mayones any day over an S7. The Strandbergs might end up being better quality though, you never know. If they arent then its gonna affect Strandbergs reputation.



Adam Of Angels said:


> You're a bum
> 
> But seriously, you can buy a used JP7 for less than what a new Strictly 7 would cost... The latter will not be a better guitar.



JP7 is another good option. Honestly, the worst 7's I tried at NAMM were Strictly 7 and Acacia. Not bashing them, just sayin that theres alot of competition out there for them, and they have their work cut out for them if they want to be contenders. Just sayin


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## JPMike (Feb 14, 2013)

No offense to anyone, but no matter what player you are if you can promote yourself efficiently and effectively then people can actually "buy" you're good. Along with some nice attitude. 

I know players that can kill people with their playing, but they don't know how to promote their selves.


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## jephjacques (Feb 14, 2013)

The S8 I had was well built, but man those are some damning photos on the first page. How do you send out a guitar with the fret ends sticking out like that?


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## thrsher (Feb 14, 2013)

if you read the comments keith said the fret ends where not like that but the wood shrank overtime because the wood was not properly cured


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## arcadia fades (Feb 14, 2013)

so correct me if wrong here, they had these models all supposed to be coming out as artist models that the public can buy?

DL from The Acacia Strain
Josh from Danza/Glass Cloud, 
Arron from Intervals, 
Keith Merrow, 
Paul from Chimp Spanner

and now none of those are actually happening?


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## technomancer (Feb 14, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> At least I didnt post any links
> 
> Id still take a Jackson CS, KxK, Mayones any day over an S7. The Strandbergs might end up being better quality though, you never know. If they arent then its gonna affect Strandbergs reputation.



No argument (well except I have no interest in Mayones)... and I sure as hell wouldn't risk the IIRC $2600+ for a .Strictly7* Boden on the hope that maybe they're building better guitars for those particular runs


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## engage757 (Feb 14, 2013)

I got neg-repped as shit for blasting the one I played. 

Fanboy-ism I guess. I was not impressed with the craftsmanship when they were doing small batches of guitars, let alone cranking out the number they were for a bit there.

Another one you could see coming from a mile away.


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## leonardo7 (Feb 14, 2013)

Well I have a Boden 7 coming next month so we shall see. It will be put to the test


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## crg123 (Feb 14, 2013)

HighGain510 said:


> So wait... your buddy had a guitar built by Strictly 7, wasn't impressed with it... then proceeded to order yet another one?   Ummm....
> 
> ......
> 
> I know lots of guys are going ga-ga over the Boden line because it's a more affordable version of the .Strandberg* design and with the promise of a shorter build time than a real .Strandberg* would take, but you're gambling when you buy one as it's more like you're purchasing a " .Strictly7* " guitar in the end.




Luckily he hasn't put any money done so he can easily withdrawl!


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## flypap3r (Feb 14, 2013)

technomancer said:


> In other words the guitars you've been trying to sell recently



I just pee'd a lil


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## JaeSwift (Feb 14, 2013)

Though I'm surprised at how civil everyone is being towards S7 I would like to express my sympathy towards BOTH the people that bought a lemon 7 and Jim/the employees of S7. Jim just recently managed to turn S7, his own business, into his fulltime job. It's a longtime goal, something I hope to achieve someday. I can't imagine how he would feel after he read Keith's post. If this was my business, I would be heartbroken, though it is by one's own fault.

At the same time it does really suck for people wanting to get an extended range guitar with a decent cost & lead time. I really hope they manage to turn these things around. A lot of people here are praising Mayones; a few years ago they pumped out absolute shoddy guitars and they had been around MUCH longer than S7 has ever been. Mayones turned it around (Ran is also a good example of this), so there is no reason S7 couldn't.

Let's give them a chance. I know it's a lot to ask but I think it would be fair, provided the people that received shoddy guitars end up being compensated for it in some reasonable way or form.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 14, 2013)

^That is along my line of thinking. They're still in their infancy. In 10 years, they could be building absolutely wonderful guitars.


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## Zado (Feb 14, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> ^That is along my line of thinking. They're still in their infancy. In 10 years, they could be building absolutely wonderful guitars.


considering the classic attitude of a forum member ,the brand could be dead in a couple of weeks


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## narad (Feb 14, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Ooooh, we're talking about Strandberg? Well, yeah, I am also scratching my head over that one.



You might say things aren't...boden well for them. _YEAAAAAAHHHH_


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## JSanta (Feb 14, 2013)

I can't speak for the S7 lines, but my Boden 8 is built very well, and I am happy with my decision to purchase one.

Sorry to those folks that got a lemon, guitars like that should never go out the door.


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## Danukenator (Feb 14, 2013)

HighGain510 said:


> Problem is most of the guys who owned them and found issues with the guitars didn't pass on said information until AFTER they sell off their guitars. Don't want to go hurting that re-sale value before you can get rid of it, apparently...



QFT

I'm personally done doing this. I felt shitty the one time I did it and rightly so. Next time, I'll just be brutally honest.

In general, when I see NGD's I always think it's fishy that there isn't a single flaw. I generally, even on the guitars I love I can find little problems.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Feb 14, 2013)

narad said:


> You might say things aren't...boden well for them. _YEAAAAAAHHHH_





And this does make me disappointed. After a few years I'd hoped to try one of these out and I hope that these things will be a lesson to them to shape up their line.


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## ramses (Feb 14, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Well I have a Boden 7 coming next month so we shall see. It will be put to the test



Mine too.


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## djentinc (Feb 14, 2013)

I saw the pictures earlier on Keith's Facebook, pretty shocked considering how solid the Strictly 7s I've seen in the past have looked, even close up. I just hope that this doesn't turn into a repeat of the Invictus Guitars situation...


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## Valennic (Feb 14, 2013)

With Strictly 7 it seems to be a case by case basis really. It's incredibly disappointing. They put out some fantastic guitars, and then they go and do shit like this. I think they'd have potential to be a top tier brand if they could stop these asinine artist endorsement things and start focusing on things people give a shit about.

Like, oh I dunno, guitars that don't slowly develop small knives on the side of the fretboard.


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## VILARIKA (Feb 14, 2013)

Happy with my guitar


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## gunch (Feb 14, 2013)

Attention to detail is what sets the top shelf stuff apart from the rest. Hopefully the dudes at S7 learn from this and strive to improve for the future.

I mean, Mayones' track record isn't flawless either and look at where they are now, I'd sell a kidney for a Regius.


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## thrsher (Feb 14, 2013)

i took my current s7 alook over again. no real flaws. i have always said there craft is on par with industry standards and that their customer service as lacked


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 14, 2013)

He left a long time ago. He just hasn't spoken up about it until now. It's been assumed by most that this was the reason though.

Edit: i know for a fact that others have had problems with super-sharp fret ends sticking far out from the neck on their S7 guitars. People who got free guitars, even.

It's like they don't even try to impress their endorsers.


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## leonardo7 (Feb 14, 2013)

What ever happened with the purpleheart Acle one?


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## xCaptainx (Feb 14, 2013)

Just asked DL on his FB about where his Sig 8 is on the S7 page.. 

He advised they are revising some specs and a new version will be back up soon.


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## engage757 (Feb 14, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Probably because he's not a high profile player.



He really isn't. People just know him because he floods youtube with amp tests. Try to find a metal amp review and NOT running across an Ola video ya know?


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## engage757 (Feb 14, 2013)

silverabyss said:


> Attention to detail is what sets the top shelf stuff apart from the rest. Hopefully the dudes at S7 learn from this and strive to improve for the future.
> 
> I mean, Mayones' track record isn't flawless either and look at where they are now, I'd sell a kidney for a Regius.



Yeah, like 20 years ago.


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## wannabguitarist (Feb 14, 2013)

Off topic slightly but I wonder what he thinks of BRJ now?


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## JPMike (Feb 14, 2013)

engage757 said:


> He really isn't. People just know him because he floods youtube with amp tests. Try to find a metal amp review and NOT running across an Ola video ya know?



Exactly what I was thinking.


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## gunch (Feb 14, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Yeah, like 20 years ago.



That's my point


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## AscendingMatt (Feb 14, 2013)

mine is built well. When i first got it there was a finish flaw in the headstock. I dropped it off to jim and he recoated it and it looks great. im happy with mine! but i dont understand how the hell they let that leave the shop, its terrible. I really want to get a boden 8 but now im skeptical seeing these flaws.


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## Loganator259 (Feb 14, 2013)

Sorry if this has already been posted, but how long have they been "updating" their site anyway? the quote tool was supposed to come out months ago I believe. 
But I almost bought an S7 not long ago, ended up getting a Carvin DC727 spec'd out for about $300 cheaper.


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## HaloHat (Feb 14, 2013)

I have to assume Keith said something about the first problem guitar. So, sending him a second like that what would S7 expect him to do? Given Keith's involvement with more than a few industry pros on a professional level, I would think S7 is really going through some serious problems right now. I would not buy a S7 right now. I think S7 priority #1 is the Boden and everything else is wayyyy back on the burners.

For what its worth [nothing to the people who got bad S7's I know] my S7, which I bought in May of 2010, is a very solid, well playing guitar. It has the best neck I have ever owned [and I am old and had a lot of guitars that you would kill for] the best fret board as well. The neck heel is not in my way except for the 25th and 26th frets of the low B, though I AM going to smooth it out because the guitar, especially for what I paid for it in 2010 is a keeper. The frets are soild and had obvious attention to detail. At the time I bought the guitar I received outstanding customer service and communications from Jim and Alan from start to finish.

I think the comment made already about S7 biting off more than they can crew is accurate. They were not anywhere as busy back when I ordered my guitar. I don't know if it is greed or getting so close to one's dream come true [Jim's of doing S7 full-time] that has led to the errors happening for a while now.

A wealthy person once told me if you can't take care of the little shit, you are never going to have the big shit  And never underestimate customer service whether the buyer is "known" or "a nobody". Because no one is a nobody


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## engage757 (Feb 14, 2013)

silverabyss said:


> That's my point





Ok, so in twenty years, then I MAY consider looking into the IDEA of an S7. 

That's MY point.


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## Seanthesheep (Feb 14, 2013)

Glad I put myself on the list for a real strandberg 

as much as I want to trust the S7 Bodens, theres just not enough proof its worthwhile yet, and if later on that changes, theres no penalty to drop my spot with ola


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## Splinterhead (Feb 14, 2013)

I'm in the market for a Boden 8. Jim and Paul are great guys. They've took some time to answer all my stupid questions regarding the guitar and their build times. I think before we/I jump to any heinous conclusions about this company I'd like to hear what Jim has to say regarding this situation. Growing pains are expected in new companies. Mistakes will be made and learned from. What really matters is the customer service and the ability to make the consumer a happy consumer.


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## baptizedinblood (Feb 14, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Probably because he's not a high profile player.



Whoops, meant Ola Strandberg, not Englund, both both still apply.


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 14, 2013)

You realize his been openly off the roster for over a year right? derp. Looks like S7G got a bite off this music/guitar drama plague going around.


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## straightshreddd (Feb 15, 2013)

As a previous S7 custom owner, I will not go and say that S7 guitars are shitty. I had a few, little things(cosmetic) that made me question whether the price was appropriate, but my guitar was not horrible or unplayable(it BADLY needed a serious setup when I got it though. But after that, it was a solid playing guitar).

I actually liked playing it but the $1,705 price tag raised my expectations when waiting for it.(Yeah, I know $1700 is nothing for a custom but this is semi custom, ie: very limited specs. And mine was suuuuper bare bones.) I think their guitars should be priced lower for the quality to match. 

I sold mine because I was still in the search for that guitar that blew my mind, not because of playability or issues, BUT my guitar was so barebones (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/guitars-sale-trade-wanted/204685-custom-strictly-7-cobra.html) that I could not sell it close to the price I paid at all. I had to let it go for $900 which is actually a price that I honestly feel I should have paid for it considering the specs and minor cosmetic issues I had. I think their guitars should be in the $900-$1200 range to be considered great deals.

Good guitars, from my single experience, but not on some super-high-end-guitar-of-your-dreams type level.

I will say, Jim was a very nice guy to deal with and was super chill to talk to when discussing my build even though I only received two pics of the body after months and months of being promised pics of the neck, finished guitar, etc. I don't hold this too much against him though because this was when they were picking up in popularity quite a bit, but still...

All in all, pretty good guitars, but for the thousands price range? There are much better options.

Huge bummer though. Lost his right hand man(Allan) and is dealing with this. I hope he can make a huge comeback and release issue-free(for the most part) guitars with proper prices and erase this mess. Jim's a really nice guy. He offered me(I'm positive others were offered this as well) to visit his shop and hang out and have a beer and stuff, which was incredibly chill.

There's my two cents, dudes. I don't like bashing people at all or making anyone look bad. It just felt appropriate to tell my story involing S7.


I think that's why it's so hard for S7 owners to point out the issues. Jim is just such a nice guy. I've heard stories from Sherman's stuff and other companies where guys were totally okay with talking about it. But, Jim is so nice and polite, it makes it hard to discuss faults without feeling like a jerk.


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## TIBrent (Feb 15, 2013)

HighGain510 said:


> I know lots of guys are going ga-ga over the Boden line because it's a more affordable version of the .Strandberg* design and with the promise of a shorter build time than a real .Strandberg* would take, but you're gambling when you buy one as it's more like you're purchasing a " .Strictly7* " guitar in the end.


This...spot on
-Brent


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## noob_pwn (Feb 15, 2013)

I tried 3 of these when I was recording in the states last year. I don't want to trash talk but I'll say that i was really underwhelmed after the amount of hype S7 get. Great concepts but inconsistent quality and a few things that I would consider design flaws


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## nothingleft09 (Feb 15, 2013)

straightshreddd said:


> As a previous S7 custom owner, I will not go and say that S7 guitars are shitty. I had a few, little things(cosmetic) that made me question whether the price was appropriate, but my guitar was not horrible or unplayable(it BADLY needed a serious setup when I got it though. But after that, it was a solid playing guitar).


 
And I bought said S7. lol Honestly I went over the guitar the second I got it and found a few finish things that Steven had explained ahead of time. It plays really well I personaly think. A pickup change made a huge difference. All in all though... it is better than my USA Gibson Explorer finish wise and that's a $1200-1300 guitar. The honeymoon phase is over though. The fuckin thing is picky as hell with temp fluctuations. I find myself checking the neck bow about once a month, but being in northern Indiana shit changes from -5 degrees up to 40 degrees on a weekly freakin basis. Ask loopquantum. He lives about 30 miles south of where I do. But other than a few small flaws I do honestly like the guitar and feel it works well for me as a player. Could they do better and work on getting their prices down a bit? Of course. Hopefully they sort their crap out, lay off the endorsements and just build a better instrument, which is where their heads need to be at.


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## christheasian (Feb 15, 2013)

this just popped up on my timeline...





ola repairing a boden already ? hmmmmmmmm. :/


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 15, 2013)

Judging by thia video, they look quite overwhelmed with the Bodens at the moment, that may or may not have some reasons towards the quality on the S7G's, I don't know. But these guys really seem genuine and good dudes. I really don't want to believe it all. So I'm holding judgement till I can actually play one.


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## Rook (Feb 15, 2013)

Oh here it is  should have known.

Why do people seem so eager to protect these guys? They seem nice and everything but nobody who I know has problems with them opens up about it and all their endorsees (predictably) sing their praises.

What happened to people like Acle? They seem to drop a lot of artists.

Someone here said something like 'I don't want to trash talk but my custom had a few minor aesthetic problems' or something. I don't wanna be excessive but if I got any kind if custom anything I'd expect zero flaws. Neither of my Mayones not my current (Swedish) strandberg have any issues of any kind, they're flawless, and didn't cost me particularly obscene amounts of money. The .s* was made start to finish by one guy!





christheasian said:


> this just popped up on my timeline...
> 
> ola repairing a boden already ? hmmmmmmmm. :/



More importantly, why's Ola taken it on, shouldn't that be s7's problem? One of the many problems I haven't plummed for a Boden, apart from how close I am to the top if the list for another Swedish one; forgetting S7's quality, some of the tops on the Boden 8's have been unbelievably bad, and very often the finish looks... Odd...

CONJECTURE


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## arkohors (Feb 15, 2013)

This thread reminds me of a quote from a high profile player in another recent S7 thread,

"yeah like sanding, drilling holes, leveling and crowning frets, putting screws in. something I could teach a 12 year old..."

I guess S7 has 11 year olds doing the "easy work."


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## HOKENSTYFE (Feb 15, 2013)

As long as Ola is still with these guys, they stand a chance. They lose him, that's a lost that will cost more than Keith.

Wasn't pleased to see Chimp Spanner & Josh Travis no longer on the site. 

Hey, who knows? Halo Guitars is making a pretty big comeback, no? It's going to take a little more to kill Strictly 7.

#BetterTomorrow


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## capoeiraesp (Feb 15, 2013)

Around the time Ola Englund got his signature weren't there quite a few other signature guitarists? I seem to remember 2 different ones that were similar to Meshuggah. 
Now there's only Ola on their signature tab.


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## ShadowFactoryX (Feb 15, 2013)

ive never liked S7G, im just so tired of the superstrat, and I honestly hate their headstocks
i know they were doing weird stuff when they first started, but obviously nothing stuck

but maybe this wouldnt be a bad time for them to take a step back and really grasp what they're doing.
...and maybe change their goofy name


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 15, 2013)

capoeiraesp said:


> Around the time Ola Englund got his signature weren't there quite a few other signature guitarists? I seem to remember 2 different ones that were similar to Meshuggah.
> Now there's only Ola on their signature tab.



Yeah, I remember it. It was almost an exact clone of the Ibanez M8M.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Feb 15, 2013)

This, IMO, is a result of getting a sig without playing the brand for any length of time. I think a player should endorse a guitar brand he has played and stands by, but today everyone just plays the first company that gives them a sig and then end up finding out later it was a bunk brand.

Not knocking keith or anything. I might have done the same in his position.


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## Andromalia (Feb 15, 2013)

engage757 said:


> He really isn't. People just know him because he floods youtube with amp tests. Try to find a metal amp review and NOT running across an Ola video ya know?


Disagreeing a bit. Yeah, he floods youtube, but he has connections, and 6feet under although not "high profile" is among the bands people in the metal scene have heard about if not actually seen or listened to. I guess at that point he lives with his music skills, which is more than a lot of people can say. He adapted to a new business model consisting of something else than record-tour-teach using the technology available. I wouldn't place bets for the future but I guess the guy is pretty much handling his business properly.

As for S7, there is always a risk in ordering a custom from a brand you have never played. Been there myself, chose the right company to do it, though.


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## Thrashmanzac (Feb 15, 2013)

has anyone else read the translated comments on the photo above? what the hell  




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## JLP2005 (Feb 15, 2013)

This whole thread gives me some bittersweets. On one hand, I feel bad for all the folks that got suckered into giving this company their hard earned dollars, but on the other hand it makes me glad that the guitar company *I choose* to invest in has no intention of fucking me over, or giving me anything less than what I paid for,

So thanks, PRS. I'll collect my check for this endorsement later.


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## timbucktu123 (Feb 15, 2013)

Imo If you want a semi custom with a shorter build time and lower cost just get a carvin


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## thrsher (Feb 15, 2013)

Rook said:


> More importantly, why's Ola taken it on, shouldn't that be s7's problem? One of the many problems I haven't plummed for a Boden, apart from how close I am to the top if the list for another Swedish one; forgetting S7's quality, some of the tops on the Boden 8's have been unbelievably bad, and very often the finish looks... Odd...
> 
> CONJECTURE



If Ola is willing the allow s7 to use his name, it absolutely is his problem. he is in business with them and ultimately its still his reputation at stake. also, seeing ola put up that flawed stranderg for sale, speaks alot about his view on his business as well IMO


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## thrsher (Feb 15, 2013)

I think S7 just starts throwing the term signature out to the public to see what bites. the Solar is the only real guitar that went into production due to demand. I think we would have seen more production of claimed "Signatures" if the demand was there.


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 15, 2013)

From Ola Englund: 


> Seeing all the recent flaming around Strictly 7 Guitars I feel I need to make a statement. I'm not going to comment anything about Keiths guitars cause I think that's between him and S7G and not between us and internet.
> 
> I usually stay out of drama like this, cause no one benefits from it, but for the sake of the fans and people who have ordered a S7G Solar I have this to say:
> 
> ...



Standberg chimed in saying along the lines of "replace Solar with Boden and you get my statement"


I have a feeling that a lot of these issues people are seeing could be resolved with better customer service and attention to detail, even if S7G are super nice guys, Jim obviously can't handle it all, He needs to hire a customer service person or somebody that actually THOROUGHLY inspects each guitar before shipping, I get the sense that as soon as the the guitar "looks" finished the ship it ASAP regardless of condition or build quality. 


All in all, my judgement thus far is that they need to slow the fuck down and starting focusing on quality, not quantity.


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## s4tch (Feb 15, 2013)

So here's a recent reaction from Ola Englund:
Timeline Photos | Facebook

I won't quote the whole text, but that's interesting:



> If you ordered a Solar and you're happy or unhappy with it, shoot me a and S7G a mail. Send me pictures of it etc, I'd love to get some feedback! If there are any issues, S7G will resolve it. Jim and I have discussed the quality control so we're both on the same page.



Wow, I've never seen a company that involves the endorsee in resolving quality issues and/or customer support. I don't know whether it's new, innovative or just desperate.

EDIT: ninja'd


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## Thrashmanzac (Feb 15, 2013)

this just in:




Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## JLP2005 (Feb 15, 2013)

s4tch said:


> So here's a recent reaction from Ola Englund:
> Timeline Photos | Facebook
> 
> I won't quote the whole text, but that's interesting:
> ...




Whatever it is, I think it's the right move. They're obviously putting their heart in the company. Who knows? Maybe this is just a bad patch.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 15, 2013)

I think these threads will start to become a common occurrence this year. I feel sorry for the guitar builders since it is a massive blow to their reputation and business but its their fault since their 2K+ guitars have flaws that would be unacceptable on a $200 guitar. The worst thing they could do is send this to an endorsee or artist who has a large online following. Are builders under the impression that guitarists don't know a gio series to a Prestige and will just lap up an endorsement deal.


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## thrsher (Feb 15, 2013)

JLP2005 said:


> Whatever it is, I think it's the right move. They're obviously putting their heart in the company. Who knows? Maybe this is just a bad patch.



it was the smart move, its his name and he prides himself in his work and the company that supports him. i commend him, i would have done the same if it were me.


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## Rook (Feb 15, 2013)

I can't help but remember Misha or Engage or someone said recently. It's all very well and good being able to make *a* good guitar, but if you're gunna sell them and for these prices you really ought to be consistently making good guitaris.

I have every respect for the Olas, everyone here knows I'm Strandberg's number one fan, but BOTH people who jumped to the rescue have a vested interest. The people who don't IMO speaks volumes, and the number of artists falling off the bottom of their list... Honestly.

Time will tell, if these guys mean what they say then they'll say the same in a year, two or ten, right?

To clarify, I'm not commenting on s7's quality, I've only briefly tried one, but critically evaluating them and the word about them. Somebody somewhere has something negative to say about everyone (somebody.. Somewhere.. Something.. Yeah that's it...) but who says what and how they say it is more important to me than what's said.

This isn't the tripadvisor effect, it's not one keyboard warrior putting people off when the other 99% loved it, I just don't wanna go near this company as it stands. It's just my opinion, my meaningless, worthless opinion..




thrsher said:


> If Ola is willing the allow s7 to use his name, it absolutely is his problem. he is in business with them and ultimately its still his reputation at stake. also, seeing ola put up that flawed stranderg for sale, speaks alot about his view on his business as well IMO



Yeah ok it looks great in a picture on the Internet. If it were me I'd public ally handle the complaint myself, internally I'd be calling up s7 telling them to sort it out.


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## BlacKat Guitars (Feb 15, 2013)

Edit: fuck this, why am I taking part in this discussion? No hard feelings to anyone


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## simonXsludge (Feb 15, 2013)

Thrashmanzac said:


>


Stuff like that worries me. I'm interested in the Boden line, but since I live overseas, dealing with those types of issues turns into a hassle. How much is a real *strandberg anyways?

The Boden 8 I played at NAMM seemed solid, though.


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## Rook (Feb 15, 2013)

^a 'real' strandberg starts at 18500SEK and goes up to whatever you got. The 8's start at 24500. It's 10SEK to the GBP and $1.60 to the GBP.

With spec like the Boden 8, that's 24500 +2000 for drop top +500 for rosewood neck +500 for f hole, makes 27500SEK, about £2750, about $4250 plus shipping and tax.


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## Larrikin666 (Feb 15, 2013)

This is definitely a bummer. I was wondering if these guys were going to get it together, but it doesn't seem to have happened. Joe Maccarone is one of their artists. I've known him for years from the area, and he actually posts on here occasionally. We were hanging out at a Nile show about a year ago after he got his first guitar from them. He didn't even use it that night. He stuck with his Washburn Instigator. I asked him about it though. He was cool enough to pull it out of the gig bag and let me check it out. 30 seconds of looking it out was enough. I found nothing appealing about it. If I handed that guitar to anyone player with experience playing high end guitars, I sincerely doubt someone will come back and say it feels like something worth anywhere over $800 street price. They're not terrible though. I don't hate them. It basically felt like a 1000 series LTD to me. 
*http://strictly7.com/joe-maccarone/*


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## Rook (Feb 15, 2013)

^my experience exactly.

Not with your friend obviously but you know what I mean


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 15, 2013)

Now Jim's Take.



> Hello to all. Jim here. It has been brought to my attention that the Keith Merrow's post is causing some concerns and issues the way things usually do on the internet. So, let's address the issues here.
> 
> Yes, there were mistakes/issues with both his guitars, the painted binding was not crisp, the side dots were off center--too low at the end of the board, and the fingerboard shrank, causing frets to be cheese grater like and pop out. There are pictures for the world to see, so I'm not going to sit here and say it didn't happen. It did, it sucked, and we tried to remedy things, but Keith chose to move on. Who can blame him, I don't. Keith's a great guy, player, friend, etc. In the case of defending myself, not passing the buck, because the buck ultimately stops with me...I bought "KILN DRIED" ebony, which means it shouldn't shrink to that extent, but it did. So now I keep all my fingerboards in a dehumidifier room and double check with a moisture meter we are at 6-7% moisture. I should have checked on Keith's, but back then I didn't. Secondly, I don't do everything in the shop, I have employees that I expect to do their jobs properly and to S7G standards, obviously that didn't happen, but I am ultimately responsible, so yes I am to blame.
> 
> ...


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 15, 2013)

^ Now that is how you handle a situation like this. Openly admitting to your fault, explaining why it happened and then assuring that it won't happen again. Kudos to Jim for accepting and dealing with it in a professional way. Companies deleting their Facebook page and ignoring emails should take note!


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## s4tch (Feb 15, 2013)

shitsøn;3415625 said:


> Stuff like that worries me. I'm interested in the Boden line, but since I live overseas, dealing with those types of issues turns into a hassle. How much is a real *strandberg anyways?
> 
> The Boden 8 I played at NAMM seemed solid, though.



I haven't played any S7 guitars, but have a pretty generic and maybe obvious remark: when choosing a product (a phone, a car or a guitar, anything really), I tend to think that customer support has as much importance than the product itself. I'd never buy a custom from a builder that lives on an other continent and has no representatives (support, service, parts warehouse, anything) within my reach. Maybe I'll stick to serial guitars and brands like Ibanez, Jackson, Fender etc all my life, but I'm not in position of taking such a risk. Beat me.


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## Splinterhead (Feb 15, 2013)

This is a testament to Jim and how he is able to admit to mistakes and take action to correct them. Focusing a company towards high quality, reasonable cost, good customer service while still being able to pay the bills is a daunting task. Its one that I would hesitate to undertake. I look forward to seeing the next batch of guitars come out of S7


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## s4tch (Feb 15, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Now Jim's Take.



Wisely chosen words.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 15, 2013)

In defense of Strictly 7, I (and yellowv from this site) had a JPX6 with sharp fret ends that were the result of shrinking ebony. We're talking about Music Man here. In the end, Music Man fixed the problem and everybody was happy, but, what Jim said about ebony is true.


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## JaeSwift (Feb 15, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Now Jim's Take.


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## flexkill (Feb 15, 2013)

So why did Merrow post the pics for the world to see if they are friends and such? If they are friends and Keith knows this QC failure rate to be around 2% (which is very good in any manufacturing process) why post those pics? I mean he would have to know this would be certain trouble for S7 no?


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 15, 2013)

flexkill said:


> So why did Merrow post the pics for the world to see if they are friends and such? If they are friends and Keith knows this QC failure rate to be around 2% (which is very good in any manufacturing process) why post those pics? I mean he would have to know this would be certain trouble for S7 no?


Mayones Endorsement. 

He seemed very animated about it when I asked him about why he waited so long...So I could only guess it's a little bit of Endorsement shaming or whatever you call it. He obviously played the guitar are promoted for a good while, and apparently "loved" it. And now, Coincidentally right after he gets a Mayones and after the contest, he puts them down? hmm.......


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## flexkill (Feb 15, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Mayones Endorsement.
> 
> He seemed very animated about it when I asked him about why he waited so long...So I could only guess it's a little bit of Endorsement shaming or whatever you call it. He obviously played the guitar are promoted for a good while, and apparently "loved" it. And now, Coincidentally right after he gets a Mayones and after the contest, he puts them down? hmm.......


If this IS the case, Shame on him. 

EDIT: I would also like to say this is how terrible rumors get started  so I hold judgement on both parties haha


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## engage757 (Feb 15, 2013)

Edit: Whoops. Someone beat me to it!


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## JLP2005 (Feb 15, 2013)

Jim's response actually kind of makes me want to buy one knowing he's going to be up his employee's asses over this. Even those glaring fuckups aside, the dude has major balls for owning up to these mistakes. Maybe, like I said, the company is just getting it's feet wet with expansion and being able to accommodate more orders so this might be good for them in a sense.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 15, 2013)

I'll say it again - if Jim can hang in there for 10 years, his guitars will be sweet... that is, if he changes that god awful company name.


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## mountainjam (Feb 15, 2013)

Quality control aside here, I think s7 is doomed unless they change their insta-cramp neck profile. Its the worst neck in the undustry. I literally haven't heard one positive thing about it. Why the fuck haven't they changed this? Companies that don't listen to customer feedback always eventually go under. I could play my cobra 8 for about 2 minutes before serious pain set in my left hand. That's never happened to me on any other guitar either.


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## flexkill (Feb 15, 2013)

JLP2005 said:


> . Even those glaring fuckups aside, the dude has major balls for owning up to these mistakes.


What other choices did he have though really? If he says nothing then people go on believing he makes shitty guitars.

Choice #2 he calls KM a liar....which is not really a good option unless it is 100% accurate.

Choice #3 He sucks it up owns the mistakes and starts damage control.

Choice #3 is the best and only option IMHO.


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## Splinterhead (Feb 15, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Mayones Endorsement.
> 
> He seemed very animated about it when I asked him about why he waited so long...So I could only guess it's a little bit of Endorsement shaming or whatever you call it. He obviously played the guitar are promoted for a good while, and apparently "loved" it. And now, Coincidentally right after he gets a Mayones and after the contest, he puts them down? hmm.......



This is indeed disturbing. I don't know Keith, he seems like a nice guy and puts out some cool material. I give him credit for marketing himself and his music to a point where he has massive popularity. Unfortunately with that popularity he is able to shift, to an extent, public opinion within the guitar community. This would make me be very cautious and try to think of the repercussions of what I say/post on the internetz.


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Feb 15, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Mayones Endorsement.
> 
> He seemed very animated about it when I asked him about why he waited so long...So I could only guess it's a little bit of Endorsement shaming or whatever you call it. He obviously played the guitar are promoted for a good while, and apparently "loved" it. And now, Coincidentally right after he gets a Mayones and after the contest, he puts them down? hmm.......



I'm not endorsed by Mayones, or any other guitar company. I don't want to be. I just want to play guitar and not worry about anything else, such as promo... or sig models. Over it... 

Those who say that they don't like how I handled the situation (BlacKat, etc.): How would you have handled it? As stated in the OP, I'm trying to be diplomatic. I'm not attacking S7, just simply sharing my experience. I get emails everyday about S7 guitars, even though I left the roster a long time ago. I've dodged this issue for too long. 

The thing is... I demo a lot of gear. What the hell good would my word be if I didn't speak the absolute truth about MY experiences, such as this one?


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## Splinterhead (Feb 15, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> I'm not endorsed by Mayones, or any other guitar company. I don't want to be. I just want to play guitar and not worry about anything else, such as promo... or sig models. Over it...
> 
> Those who say that they don't like how I handled the situation (BlacKat, etc.): How would you have handled it? As stated in the OP, I'm trying to be diplomatic. I'm not attacking S7, just simply sharing my experience. I get emails everyday about S7 guitars, even though I left the roster a long time ago. I've dodged this issue for too long.
> 
> The thing is... I demo a lot of gear. What the hell good would my word be if I didn't speak the absolute truth about MY experiences, such as this one?



Well that was fast thanks for clearing that up Keith.


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## Hankey (Feb 15, 2013)

Ola Englund's response on the matter:



> Seeing all the recent flaming around Strictly 7 Guitars I feel I need to make a statement. I'm not going to comment anything about Keiths guitars cause I think that's between him and S7G and not between us and internet.
> 
> I usually stay out of drama like this, cause no one benefits from it, but for the sake of the fans and people who have ordered a S7G Solar I have this to say:
> 
> ...



Copy/pasted from Strandberg's Facebook page...


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 15, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> I'm not endorsed by Mayones, or any other guitar company. I don't want to be. I just want to play guitar and not worry about anything else, such as promo... or sig models. Over it...
> 
> Those who say that they don't like how I handled the situation (BlacKat, etc.): How would you have handled it? As stated in the OP, I'm trying to be diplomatic. I'm not attacking S7, just simply sharing my experience. I get emails everyday about S7 guitars, even though I left the roster a long time ago. I've dodged this issue for too long.
> 
> The thing is... I demo a lot of gear. What the hell good would my word be if I didn't speak the absolute truth about MY experiences, such as this one?



Haters gon' hate, son. That's all.


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## flexkill (Feb 15, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> I'm not endorsed by Mayones, or any other guitar company. I don't want to be. I just want to play guitar and not worry about anything else, such as promo... or sig models. Over it...
> 
> Those who say that they don't like how I handled the situation (BlacKat, etc.): How would you have handled it? As stated in the OP, I'm trying to be diplomatic. I'm not attacking S7, just simply sharing my experience. I get emails everyday about S7 guitars, even though I left the roster a long time ago. I've dodged this issue for too long.
> 
> The thing is... I demo a lot of gear. What the hell good would my word be if I didn't speak the absolute truth about MY experiences, such as this one?



So is the QC issue really around 2% in your opinion? I only ask because that is a very good "Failure" rate if true.


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Feb 15, 2013)

flexkill said:


> So is the QC issue really around 2% in your opinion? I only ask because that is a very good "Failure" rate if true.



If that's true, my guitars must have accounted for all 2% of last year's failures.


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## flexkill (Feb 15, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> If that's true, my guitars must have accounted for all 2% of last year's failures.


That's what I thought. Thanks man, dig your music.


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## JLP2005 (Feb 15, 2013)

flexkill said:


> What other choices did he have though really? If he says nothing then people go on believing he makes shitty guitars.



Good point, but he could have made a worse decision, for sure.


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## Fred the Shred (Feb 15, 2013)

Honestly, I was well aware of the implications of Keith's pics here. Before I even begin, that's a massive fuckup from S7G. Keith knows it, Jim knows it, both Olas know it, and that's it - no matter what prototype stage, QC has a component of ensuring mats are exactly as they're supposed to be and the frets suddenly jumping off the guitar is, for obvious reasons, a killer.

Then again, truth is that I haven't seen disgruntled relatively recent S7G customers giving them a poor review or failing to have an issue addressed. Personally, I've played a fuckton of them. Bodens, S7G's sigs and production models, etc.. Never had a reason to complain, and actually had a go at stuff they weren't exposing because they were protos they weren't fully satisfied with that actually played and sounded great as well, both from their line and the Boden line.

Thing is that, in Keith's shoes, I would not have gone to this sort of extent explaining why the deal fell, not to protect S7G from truth, but because we all know what happens when someone visible, regardless of how many times they will type "this example" will quickly unleash a negative bandwagon that goes from "this example" to "OMG it's all shit" and eventually "I knew it they're like Invictus, burn their homes and kill them while you bask at the mourning of their widows!".

tl;dr - the proto was an unacceptable mess as Jim admitted to, the dozens I've played were quite cool (some more "my thing" than others, as usual), and now the hate spreads like wildfire, usually driven by peeps who see pics, read internet posts, but don't really have first hand experience for the most part.  Can't wait for more elaborate conspiracy theories in which Keith is secretely promoting some brand's evil agenda to rule the world...


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 15, 2013)

Besides, Fred owns an 8 string S7G that he got from one of the most beautiful men I've ever seen, and I can assure you that's it a nice piece.




This post was truly unnecessary.


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## Fred the Shred (Feb 15, 2013)

Indeed. It's actually being sold to fund the Strandberg, but I can't fault it one bit, really. Also, the neck section is fucking gorgeous on that thing. Not as much as you, of course.


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## technomancer (Feb 15, 2013)

Fred the Shred said:


> tl;dr - the proto was an unacceptable mess as Jim admitted to, the dozens I've played were quite cool (some more "my thing" than others, as usual), and now the hate spreads like wildfire, usually driven by peeps who see pics, read internet posts, but don't really have first hand experience for the most part.  Can't wait for more elaborate conspiracy theories in which Keith is secretely promoting some brand's evil agenda to rule the world...



Come on Fred, didn't you get the memo? Everybody that posts here and says anything negative about anybody is secretly on somebody's payroll. I recently saw a PM that basically said everyone on the mod staff works for one guitar guitar company or another to promote some agenda. Honestly I wish it was true, I'd love some free guitars and cash for all the time I spend trying to keep this place civil


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## JLP2005 (Feb 15, 2013)

technomancer said:


> Come on Fred, didn't you get the memo? Everybody that posts here and says anything negative about anybody is secretly on somebody's payroll. I recently saw a PM that basically said everyone on the mod staff works for one guitar guitar company or another to promote some agenda. Honestly I wish it was true, I'd love some free guitars and cash for all the time I spend trying to keep this place civil



My urge to say something completely fucking retarded is through the roof right now. But I won't get banned! Not this time!


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## killertone (Feb 15, 2013)

I have seen some weirdness on some of their guitars but all I can say is that I played Ola's original Solar 7 at NAMM this year and it was awesome.


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## Deadnightshade (Feb 15, 2013)

technomancer said:


> I recently saw a PM that basically said everyone on the mod staff works for one guitar guitar company or another to promote some agenda. Honestly I wish it was true, I'd love some free guitars and cash for all the time I spend trying to keep this place civil



On my way to work I found a portal,got in and
Killed Xenu's Kingdom
 


On topic,I have to say that Jim's totally right about people being eager to spew shit about a company ,especially when they have no experience of any of their instruments.Even if they do,it doesn't mean they have enough knowledge to judge objectively the REASON of the product's failure and the circumstances that caused it,in order to blame the maker/user accordingly.


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## dsquared (Feb 15, 2013)

Someone name a guitar maker that hasn't produced some bad pieces. All makers, even your favorite ultra-exclusive custom builder, have let fuck ups into the wild and will continue to do so. Perfection does not exist anywhere, with anything. Of course, it's the ratio of good to bad that matters.

I own a S7G, but my favorite guitars are ESP CSs. And I'm not naive enough to believe that ESP doesn't make a dog once in a while. Even their custom shop.


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## Fred the Shred (Feb 15, 2013)

technomancer said:


> Come on Fred, didn't you get the memo? Everybody that posts here and says anything negative about anybody is secretly on somebody's payroll. I recently saw a PM that basically said everyone on the mod staff works for one guitar guitar company or another to promote some agenda. Honestly I wish it was true, I'd love some free guitars and cash for all the time I spend trying to keep this place civil



You don't work for KxK? Fuck, you're useless to me then.


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## engage757 (Feb 15, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> I'm not endorsed by Mayones, or any other guitar company. I don't want to be. I just want to play guitar and not worry about anything else, such as promo... or sig models. Over it...
> 
> Those who say that they don't like how I handled the situation (BlacKat, etc.): How would you have handled it? As stated in the OP, I'm trying to be diplomatic. I'm not attacking S7, just simply sharing my experience. I get emails everyday about S7 guitars, even though I left the roster a long time ago. I've dodged this issue for too long.
> 
> The thing is... I demo a lot of gear. What the hell good would my word be if I didn't speak the absolute truth about MY experiences, such as this one?




And when a company that you WERE endorsing made a sub-par product, you made it public and removed yourself from the affiliation. I don't blame you in the slightest, if someone is using my name on a sub-par product, I will pull it in a SECOND. No one can say that you did something wrong here IMO. You showed pictures, didn't flame anyone, simply shared the experience and why you no longer would be endorsing a product that you wouldn't use or was sub-par.

More power to you.

No one can say anything to you about deciding to not promote a product with your name on it that could potentially disappoint or be defective.

+1 for being honest and trying to educate people despite the fact that you lose a signature model.


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## tacotiklah (Feb 15, 2013)

SkullCrusher said:


> *joins Mayones*
> 
> watch this space.



I see a LOT of people talking up Mayones too, and even I find myself really wishing I could try one out just to see if it would be worth pulling the trigger for one; however, I'm willing to bet that if enough people jump ship over to Mayones, this same problem will happen. Why? Because these are small luthiers that are TOTALLY unprepared to handle massive amounts of orders. These are small-time companies trying to get up and running, and while they do a fantastic job of promoting for the most part, they get overwhelmed. They can't expand fast enough. When they grow and get bigger, they have to find ways to streamline the process to meet demand, and they have to train new people. This takes time and because new people are coming in to build guitars, you're gonna have some QC issues. We've seen on here luthier, after luthier, after luthier rise to a certain point, then because their work is so awesome, they get overwhelmed and start making really fundamental mistakes in both their QC and in their customer service. 

Now, I see Keith's issue with S7 as something between Keith and S7. If you don't like what you see, don't buy one. Judging from what a couple other S7 owners have told me, their customer service is awesome. That right there will still set them apart from the ones that have failed in the past because in a business, you're gonna have things go wrong. No matter how hard you try, and no matter how dili(djent) (  ) you become to QC, things still go wrong. The key is how quickly and efficiently you can make good on it as to me, THAT is the key to a good company.


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## Andromalia (Feb 15, 2013)

> God bless America and the military that allows us to have that free speech.


WTF does this have to do with guitar making ? Never played their guitars, don't know them, but, er, seriously, people using that kind of argument ain't gonna sell a lot overseas...


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## Nykur_Myrkvi (Feb 15, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> I see a LOT of people talking up Mayones too, and even I find myself really wishing I could try one out just to see if it would be worth pulling the trigger for one; however, I'm willing to bet that if enough people jump ship over to Mayones, this same problem will happen. Why? Because these are small luthiers that are TOTALLY unprepared to handle massive amounts of orders. These are small-time companies trying to get up and running, and while they do a fantastic job of promoting for the most part, they get overwhelmed. They can't expand fast enough. When they grow and get bigger, they have to find ways to streamline the process to meet demand, and they have to train new people. This takes time and because new people are coming in to build guitars, you're gonna have some QC issues. We've seen on here luthier, after luthier, after luthier rise to a certain point, then because their work is so awesome, they get overwhelmed and start making really fundamental mistakes in both their QC and in their customer service.
> 
> Now, I see Keith's issue with S7 as something between Keith and S7. If you don't like what you see, don't buy one. Judging from what a couple other S7 owners have told me, their customer service is awesome. That right there will still set them apart from the ones that have failed in the past because in a business, you're gonna have things go wrong. No matter how hard you try, and no matter how dili(djent) (  ) you become to QC, things still go wrong. The key is how quickly and efficiently you can make good on it as to me, THAT is the key to a good company.


I believe this is exactly what's going on.

I think these kinds of issues are what Conklin has so brilliantly avoided by charging an arm and a leg for their instruments...they probably only have to build a couple a year to stay a float.

I must add that I believe Conklins are worth a couple of limbs, I'd just prefer them to be legs so I can properly play them.


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## HOKENSTYFE (Feb 15, 2013)

VIK, on their Facebook page are touting a Keith Merrow guitar. A simple one line boast of a Keith Merrow but, the plot thickens.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Feb 15, 2013)

Nah, they've been doing that for a while whenever they have an update for it.


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Feb 15, 2013)

HOKENSTYFE said:


> VIK, on their Facebook page are touting a Keith Merrow guitar. A simple one line boast of a Keith Merrow but, the plot thickens.



I don't honestly see how this is relevant to anything at all. There's no "plot". 

ViK has been building me a guitar for a long time. Long before my dealings with S7, in fact.


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## HOKENSTYFE (Feb 15, 2013)

Yeah. The 'Black Lotus' Keith Merrow. Ok. Gotcha. Was not aware.


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## BlacKat Guitars (Feb 15, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Why? Because these are small luthiers that are TOTALLY unprepared to handle massive amounts of orders.



Mayones has over 30 years of experience, manufactures hundreds of guitars a year and they know their shit.


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## Andromalia (Feb 15, 2013)

Nykur_Myrkvi said:


> I believe this is exactly what's going on.
> 
> I think these kinds of issues are what Conklin has so brilliantly avoided by charging an arm and a leg for their instruments...they probably only have to build a couple a year to stay a float.


QC issues like this are usually the sign of a company growing too fast. I can give you many names of companies I've never heard a dud was made from. The thing is, these companies make you wait instead of accepting all orders. ESP custom shop is 5 persons, Amfisound three, Daemoness is a 1 person company, etc. I can guarantee you if Dylan accets 100 orders at once there _will _be fuckups.


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## technomancer (Feb 15, 2013)

Deadnightshade said:


> On my way to work I found a portal,got in and
> Killed Xenu's Kingdom





Fred the Shred said:


> You don't work for KxK? Fuck, you're useless to me then.





Nope, I'm a huge fan of Rob's work and talk to him pretty frequently but I don't get paid or get free guitars... hell Rob barely keeps the doors open, he couldn't afford to give me free guitars even if he wanted to. I've currently got 3 KxKs and two on order (one of the two is on hold). I've also got 2 Gibsons here and am reviewing a PRS SE 7. I'm considering guitars from Xen, Skervesen, and an Ibanez jazzbox 7.

I've just got a good paying job and like Rob's work enough to keep buying guitars from him, as well as a ton of other guitars and amps


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Feb 15, 2013)

technomancer said:


> Nope, I'm a huge fan of Rob's work and talk to him pretty frequently but I don't get paid or get free guitars... hell Rob barely keeps the doors open, he couldn't afford to give me free guitars even if he wanted to. I've currently got 3 KxKs and two on order (one of the two is on hold). I've also got 2 Gibsons here and am reviewing a PRS SE 7. I'm considering guitars from Xen, Skervesen, and an Ibanez jazzbox 7.
> 
> I've just got a good paying job and like Rob's work enough to keep buying guitars from him, as well as a ton of other guitars and amps



I had a chance to try a KxK and didn't want to give it back. That guitar was seriously legit.


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## simonXsludge (Feb 15, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> I had a chance to try a KxK and didn't want to give it back. That guitar was seriously legit.


THE PLOT THICKENS! 

Just kidding.


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## Overtone (Feb 15, 2013)

The talk of growing pains gives me even more appreciation for the early days of the Jackson custom shop. If you look at the serial numbers they were putting out a pretty serious volume even in the San Dimas days and the quality was unbelievable in the first factory! Not as knowledgeable about Ontario....


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## dsquared (Feb 15, 2013)

Andromalia said:


> QC issues like this are usually the sign of a company growing too fast. I can give you many names of companies I've never heard a dud was made from. The thing is, these companies make you wait instead of accepting all orders. ESP custom shop is 5 persons, Amfisound three, Daemoness is a 1 person company, etc. I can guarantee you if Dylan accets 100 orders at once there _will _be fuckups.



Never? Please. I'd ask you to list them, and then we'd take some time tearing down that myth piece by piece, but I'm not interested in taking shots at companies over issues that are inevitable.


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## Rook (Feb 15, 2013)

Yeah I think some of the comments re Mayones are a little off, Mayo is a big operation that's been going decades, they aren't even vaguely comparable to S7G or even less so small timers like Invictus or even ViK - who is a one man operation.

Keith, thanks for posting, I totally get it.


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## straightshreddd (Feb 15, 2013)

nothingleft09 said:


> And I bought said S7. lol Honestly I went over the guitar the second I got it and found a few finish things that Steven had explained ahead of time. It plays really well I personaly think. A pickup change made a huge difference. All in all though... it is better than my USA Gibson Explorer finish wise and that's a $1200-1300 guitar. The honeymoon phase is over though. The fuckin thing is picky as hell with temp fluctuations. I find myself checking the neck bow about once a month, but being in northern Indiana shit changes from -5 degrees up to 40 degrees on a weekly freakin basis. Ask loopquantum. He lives about 30 miles south of where I do. But other than a few small flaws I do honestly like the guitar and feel it works well for me as a player. Could they do better and work on getting their prices down a bit? Of course. Hopefully they sort their crap out, lay off the endorsements and just build a better instrument, which is where their heads need to be at.



Yeah, I always disclose any issues with buyers. And it does play great. Overall, good guitar. Only real flaw I could point out was the price.


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## engage757 (Feb 15, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> I see a LOT of people talking up Mayones too, and even I find myself really wishing I could try one out just to see if it would be worth pulling the trigger for one; however, I'm willing to bet that if enough people jump ship over to Mayones, this same problem will happen. Why? Because these are small luthiers that are TOTALLY unprepared to handle massive amounts of orders.



That's because they make an incredible product.

This has nothing to do with anything. Mayones has been building guitars for DECADES. They aren't nearly as small as S7G. 

Mayones has even been featured on CNN. They are a VERY well established company. It would take absolute INSANITY to take them down with how well they are established.


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## WeLookLikeGiants (Feb 15, 2013)

It's a bummer that S7G is getting in a bit of a shit storm over this. I have a custom S7G that I love. 
It has one or two cosmetic flaws and the neck heel is not exactly to my liking but it doesn't affect the play ability 
and you can't see the finish flaws unless your face is 6 inches from it. 
I think Keith and Jim both handled the situation well. 
I just hate reading negative posts by people that have never tried playing one.


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## bulb (Feb 15, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> I see a LOT of people talking up Mayones too, and even I find myself really wishing I could try one out just to see if it would be worth pulling the trigger for one; however, I'm willing to bet that if enough people jump ship over to Mayones, this same problem will happen. Why? Because these are small luthiers that are TOTALLY unprepared to handle massive amounts of orders. These are small-time companies trying to get up and running, and while they do a fantastic job of promoting for the most part, they get overwhelmed. They can't expand fast enough. When they grow and get bigger, they have to find ways to streamline the process to meet demand, and they have to train new people. This takes time and because new people are coming in to build guitars, you're gonna have some QC issues. We've seen on here luthier, after luthier, after luthier rise to a certain point, then because their work is so awesome, they get overwhelmed and start making really fundamental mistakes in both their QC and in their customer service.
> 
> Now, I see Keith's issue with S7 as something between Keith and S7. If you don't like what you see, don't buy one. Judging from what a couple other S7 owners have told me, their customer service is awesome. That right there will still set them apart from the ones that have failed in the past because in a business, you're gonna have things go wrong. No matter how hard you try, and no matter how dili(djent) (  ) you become to QC, things still go wrong. The key is how quickly and efficiently you can make good on it as to me, THAT is the key to a good company.



Mayones is a much bigger company than I think you think they are. They also completely reworked their production when I started working with them because of the demand they got from the states.

They have gone about their growth in a responsible and well-planned way. They have also been very hungry to grow and improve not only the volume, but the quality of their instruments in parallel. And this is why every year, their guitars have been more ambitious and next-level.

Seeing their track record, and their ability to adapt to demand without compromising their product, I have to say that I am not worried about them, and I would see no reason for anyone else to be. They have already proven themselves many times over.


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## engage757 (Feb 15, 2013)

Andromalia said:


> QC issues like this are usually the sign of a company growing too fast. I can give you many names of companies I've never heard a dud was made from. The thing is, these companies make you wait instead of accepting all orders. ESP custom shop is 5 persons, Amfisound three, Daemoness is a 1 person company, etc. I can guarantee you if Dylan accets 100 orders at once there _will _be fuckups.



Love ya bro, and you are right with the point, but wrong on the numbers.

Daemoness has 2-3 guys working there now, and ESP Custom shop 12-15.

Although, the point has been made.


HOWEVER, I think you would be surprised at the behind the scenes talking about Daemoness. There have been several QC issues just that I know about.

Not to start a flame sesh.


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## bulb (Feb 15, 2013)

And Vik?
Vik Kuletski is probably the only other luthier who I can put at the level of Doug Campbell (Blackmachine) in terms of passion, obsession and insane attention to detail.
Both of those guys build guitars as art first, and income second. They have had many opportunities to grow and meet their rather impossible demand, but they are so obsessed with the fine details of their craft that money would never be a factor in their decision making. Neither of them have "businesses" in that sense. They are just obsessed with art.


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## engage757 (Feb 15, 2013)

bulb said:


> Mayones is a much bigger company than I think you think they are. They also completely reworked their production when I started working with them because of the demand they got from the states.
> 
> They have gone about their growth in a responsible and well-planned way. They have also been very hungry to grow and improve not only the volume, but the quality of their instruments in parallel. And this is why every year, their guitars have been more ambitious and next-level.
> 
> Seeing their track record, and their ability to adapt to demand without compromising their product, I have to say that I am not worried about them, and I would see no reason for anyone else to be. They have already proven themselves many times over.



This just furthers what I said earlier in the thread bro. Mayones has NOTHING to prove at this point. They release an amazingly consistent product that is EASILY on par with any other high-end guitar builder on the planet if not better.


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## bulb (Feb 15, 2013)

engage757 said:


> Love ya bro, and you are right with the point, but wrong on the numbers.
> 
> Daemoness has 2-3 guys working there now, and ESP Custom shop 12-15.
> 
> ...



Dylan only has one other person working for him, and Jiro style he has trained him hard and tested him to his absurdly rigorous standards. Dylan again is one of those guys who is trying to meet demand in a way that will not compromise his instrument in the least.
Knowing Dylan as a person really puts a lot in perspective. All I can say again is he has that obsession with attention to detail, he is an artist, and if he expands to meet demand, it will only be when he is 100% sure there will be no difference to the quality and consistency of the final product.


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## engage757 (Feb 15, 2013)

bulb said:


> And Vik?
> Vik Kuletski is probably the only other luthier who I can put at the level of Doug Campbell (Blackmachine) in terms of passion, obsession and insane attention to detail.
> Both of those guys build guitars as art first, and income second. They have had many opportunities to grow and meet their rather impossible demand, but they are so obsessed with the fine details of their craft that money would never be a factor in their decision making. Neither of them have "businesses" in that sense. They are just obsessed with art.




Agreed. My BMs were/are each phenomenal. Doug truly builds a guitar he himself would play, and nothing less. A true work of art with unquestionable attention to detail. He has enough pride in his art/work to not release something less than flawless. I find that a lot in this day and age, pride in one's craft gets lost in the hustle and bustle of trying to make a buck and in this case, fill orders, crank out guitars etc.

THAT is what sets smaller luthier companies apart in my opinion, the pride the builders themselves have in creating the very best product they possibly can.


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## engage757 (Feb 15, 2013)

bulb said:


> Dylan only has one other person working for him, and Jiro style he has trained him hard and tested him to his absurdly rigorous standards. Dylan again is one of those guys who is trying to meet demand in a way that will not compromise his instrument in the least.
> Knowing Dylan as a person really puts a lot in perspective. All I can say again is he has that obsession with attention to detail, he is an artist, and if he expands to meet demand, it will only be when he is 100% sure there will be no difference to the quality and consistency of the final product.



yeah, I saw his apprentice's guitar on FB and you really couldn't tell it wasn't Dylan's own work.


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## Andromalia (Feb 15, 2013)

dsquared said:


> Never? Please. I'd ask you to list them, and then we'd take some time tearing down that myth piece by piece, but I'm not interested in taking shots at companies over issues that are inevitable.


I cited them in my previous post. No, they never do mistakes...that reach the customer. Of course they will make blunders here and there. But they won't send a faulty guitar, period.


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## leonardo7 (Feb 15, 2013)

I discussed my concerns with Dawid at NAMM about what would happen if they got overwhelmed with Custom orders. Id hate to see the wait time jump to over a year like the other big companies and his answer was basically along the lines of 'I expand the shop, make it bigger to accomodate' and that hes constantly expanding. Hes a smart guy and knows exactly what hes dealing with. I love Mayones and am proud to be using their guitars


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## gunshow86de (Feb 15, 2013)

engage757 said:


> My BMs were/are each phenomenal.



TMI buddy.


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## Fred the Shred (Feb 15, 2013)

technomancer said:


> Nope, I'm a huge fan of Rob's work and talk to him pretty frequently but I don't get paid or get free guitars... hell Rob barely keeps the doors open, he couldn't afford to give me free guitars even if he wanted to. I've currently got 3 KxKs and two on order (one of the two is on hold). I've also got 2 Gibsons here and am reviewing a PRS SE 7. I'm considering guitars from Xen, Skervesen, and an Ibanez jazzbox 7.
> 
> I've just got a good paying job and like Rob's work enough to keep buying guitars from him, as well as a ton of other guitars and amps



It's not about giving YOU free guitars.


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Feb 15, 2013)

From my FB page- 

I feel like I should probably clarify a couple things regarding the pictures and comments I posted yesterday (my experience with Strictly 7 Guitars). First off, my intentions weren't to harm S7 in any way at all. As someone who regularly demonstrates musical equipment, my honesty and integrity are important. If you were to email me and ask me if Id suggest an S7 guitar to you, Id tell you no. But, thats purely based on my experience, alone. Others have obviously had a great experience, and Id encourage you to look further into the brand and decide for yourself. 

A lot of the comments that I've seen regarding this have been pretty brutal on S7g. While I may have had a couple bad guitars, they dont all have these same problems. Please consider refraining from outright bashing S7, or calling them the new Invictus Guitars. Do some more research, find a way to try one for yourself and at that point, Id say that your opinion might hold some weight. Anything else is just spreading unwarranted hate. 

In defense of S7g, Jim and the crew did everything they could to make it right for me. They offered rebuilds and repairs. Ultimately, it was I who decided not to pursue a signature guitar with S7g any further. The problem lied in the fact that the guitars I had been sent were supposed to represent my signature guitar as the consumer would see it. The guitars had major problems, and I simply didn't feel good about putting my signature on it. Im not anybody special, and I dont feel I was too good for it, but I wouldn't back a signature ANYTHING unless I could honestly say I loved it. I will not lie, and I will not be a sellout and keep my mouth shut when people ask me for the truth. 

The S7 customer service is stellar. They send out regular updates, keep in constant contact with their customers, and they always seem to want to make things right if people aren't happy with their guitars. Jim and the rest of the crew are genuinely good people. I have no hostility towards any of them and Id never wish them any harm. We even had high fives and beers at NAMM this year. These people are my friends. 

So why would I post some very unflattering pictures of the guitars I got from them? 

I figure: How good would my opinion of musical equipment be if I didn't share both the good and the bad? Many people ask me about these guitars, just as they ask about anything that I've used. I gladly share my experiences of equipment that I feel is good and solid but my word means nothing if I dont also share my bad experiences. Its that simple.


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## stratjacket (Feb 15, 2013)

I feel bad for this situation. Bad for Keith and others who got faulty guitars and had to deal with that, what a hassle. I feel bad for builders because people never remember the good things, only the bad with anything. This will scare for a while. 

Every guitar builder is only a couple of bad days away from having people jump out of the woodwork on them. People like to pick sides and go against the popular thoughts, I bet there are plenty of people waiting for a bad report on a Mayones so they can start piling on. It will happen eventually. I've had Mayones and love them, hope it doesn't happen and not to single them out, just an example.

I have a S7 Solar in White and it is a great guitar, no complaints from me other than not crazy about the 27.5inch scale, but I just wanted to try it. Nothing wrong with the build.

I also wonder about upkeep, because I buy/sell/trade and often get a guitar that is dirty or dusty and I have to take apart and clean. Sometimes it takes many coats of lemon oil to get the smut off.


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## MJS (Feb 15, 2013)

BlacKat Guitars said:


> I personally don't like the way Keith handled this situation, obviously there are some bad things on those pics but we don't know the story behind the scenes.



We _didn't_ know, but Keith did... _and now we do_. Since S7 basically confirmed everything he said, I don't really see any unsolved mysteries here. 



BlacKat Guitars said:


> Not commenting on quality of S7G, just saying that if Keith really likes S7G guys as he says, he shouldn't post those pictures because he knew that it would start internets bashing of the brand and really not much is needed to discredit any company.



Are you saying that if someone gets _your_ guitars and you screw them up, it's their job to keep their mouths shut so you can hope for more sales from people that wouldn't have bought one if they knew the truth... as long as they like you as a person? 

Because if that's not what you're saying, what don't you like about Keith being honest and offering actual evidence/pictures to back up every word he said? 


If anything, I have a problem with the people that keep all the free shit companies send them, then quietly phase out their commission-driven praise with a generic exit line like "It just didn't work out," while pretending that being quiet means the same thing as being professional... then it's off to pimp out the next batch of freebies.


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## straightshreddd (Feb 15, 2013)

gunshow86de said:


> TMI buddy.


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## MJS (Feb 15, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> From my FB page-
> 
> I feel like I should probably clarify a couple things regarding the pictures and comments I posted yesterday (my experience with Strictly 7 Guitars). ...



And from my reply to that post - 

"You know mankind is going down the shitter when it becomes necessary to write a book-sized explanation to justify being honest. Our politicians have brainwashed us well. haha "


And as usual... if you had done the opposite and kept your mouth shut, everyone would hate you for covering things up and only caring about money/freebies. Well, it's not like you haven't already figured out that you just can't win on the internet (_cough cough Mayones/Duncan contest backlash cough cough_). 




Andromalia said:


> WTF does this have to do with guitar making ? Never played their guitars, don't know them, but, er, seriously, people using that kind of argument ain't gonna sell a lot overseas...



You're taking it too literally. Anything about thanking god/soldiers for freedom of speech is just a generic phrase that gets used in place of "You're free to say whatever you want... regardless of how stupid it is."  

It even gets used by people that don't believe in god, care about American pride, or hate all wars/don't support the military.


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## BlacKat Guitars (Feb 15, 2013)

MJS said:


> Are you saying that if someone gets _your_ guitars and you screw them up, it's their job to keep their mouths shut so you can hope for more sales from people that wouldn't have bought one if they knew the truth... as long as they like you as a person?



If someone gets my guitar and I screw it up I do everything I can to fix situation. Lemons happen or will happen to all companies. What matters really is how you deal with them.

I did explain to Keith on PM what I meant. I feel that he added all missing information in his recent FB post. I also posted before there was statement from Jim. Now all is clear to me.


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## HaloHat (Feb 15, 2013)

ok... way too many post I would like to respond to so rather than quote each I'll post a couple notes that I would like to mention.

I live in the Seattle area. I have a S7G 27.5 scale. I have had the guitar since mid 2010. Other than the neck heel non-issue I already posted on page 3 or 4 ish I have had no problems on my S7G and I appreciate others have and respect each individuals handling things the way they feel they needed to be.

If anyone gets around the Seattle area I would be happy to let you play my S7G. The 27.5" Wenge neck has a "flat profile back with shoulders" is the closes I can describe it. Closest I have owned like it was a Jackson CS Soloist. Very similar feel. I like it a lot. Who knows what pick ups may be in it at any time. For the next few months it will probably have Carvin Active A70's as I am going to play the hell out of them waiting for the Carvin 27" scale 7 string guitars so I can decide to go with the D26 or A70 on that order [still months before they are in production per Carvin] 

The post a few pages back about it having a shitty neck is retarded. Other than pick ups, maybe, neck profiles are something people will agree or disagree about. S7G happens to one of the companies that will build your guitar with just about any woods you want and they will also profile your neck to what you like [or did when I ordered mine in 2010]. Not hating on the person who posted that, it is just true. It may also be true it felt shitty to that person, I forget if they "tried one" or "owned one". If owned S7G would probably still profile the neck for you. Looks like you may have a bit of a wait on that now? I dunno about that, call S7G if you own one.

Keith Merrow - He handled things the way he saw fit and that is his right to do so. Jim's post and Keith's say all that needs to be said on that issue. Each are businessmen and independant and proud. Neither of them are dummies. They have said what they wanted. I would not twist their words to much. The only thing I don't like about Keith is that he got so popular that he does not have time to teach me drum programming. Bastard


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## tacotiklah (Feb 15, 2013)

bulb said:


> Mayones is a much bigger company than I think you think they are. They also completely reworked their production when I started working with them because of the demand they got from the states.
> 
> They have gone about their growth in a responsible and well-planned way. They have also been very hungry to grow and improve not only the volume, but the quality of their instruments in parallel. And this is why every year, their guitars have been more ambitious and next-level.
> 
> Seeing their track record, and their ability to adapt to demand without compromising their product, I have to say that I am not worried about them, and I would see no reason for anyone else to be. They have already proven themselves many times over.



Fair enough. Although had I not been a member of this forum (or any forum really) I really doubt I'd have ever heard of them. The pictures of their instruments are just jaw-dropping. I just made the comment I did more out of a generalization and I should have added that Mayones will probably outlast a lot of the other luthiers simply because they can handle the expansion.

My point was more about how we have seen BRJ, Invictus, Rotor, and few others here make awesome stuff, and it's really awesome stuff, but a random black friday sale or something else makes demand explode, and they have a bear of a time trying to meet it.

I'm merely trying to demonstrate that there are other underlying issues besides "that company is evil and actively screwing people over". (although Invictus would be the closest I've seen a company get to that particular mindset)

I'm also hoping to get people to see things through their eyes as well.


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Feb 15, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> My point was more about how we have seen BRJ, Invictus, Rotor, and few others here make awesome stuff, and it's really awesome stuff, but a random black friday sale or something else makes demand explode, and they have a bear of a time trying to meet it.



BRJ may have made some sweet guitars, but I don't have to tell anyone on this forum about his not-so-great builds, and his catastrophic business practices regarding that Black Friday thing. While most of the BRJ guitars I have owned/currently own were/are pretty awesome, I actually wouldn't suggest them to anyone at this point, just like S7. In so many ways, ordering a BRJ at this point would be far worse than even ordering an S7 (in my eyes). 

Not trying to hate. You guys know the facts. 

As far as Mayones is concerned, I've only played a few of their guitars. But, the one I got at NAMM this year is probably the best built guitar I've ever played. The quality on it is miles above any of these other guitars mentioned. That guitar that I got to give away for that solo contest was absolutely stunning, too. 

I'm not endorsed by Mayones, I swear. I just think they make nice guitars from what I've seen, and will gladly play them.


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## flexkill (Feb 15, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> BRJ may have made some sweet guitars, but I don't have to tell anyone on this forum about his not-so-great builds, and his catastrophic business practices regarding that Black Friday thing. While most of the BRJ guitars I have owned/currently own were/are pretty awesome, I actually wouldn't suggest them to anyone at this point, just like S7. In so many ways, ordering a BRJ at this point would be far worse than even ordering an S7 (in my eyes).
> 
> Not trying to hate. You guys know the facts.
> 
> ...



So man, while your being all forthcoming and shit....what is your true feelings on the Evertune bridge???

Would you route your favorite guitar to have one installed???


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## technomancer (Feb 15, 2013)

Fred the Shred said:


> It's not about giving YOU free guitars.



NO! You have enough!


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## Fred the Shred (Feb 15, 2013)

technomancer said:


> NO! You have enough!



NEVER!!!!!!


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## Splinterhead (Feb 15, 2013)

Fred, my friend, I think you may have a problem...


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## HaloHat (Feb 15, 2013)

SplinterHead/Greg Rapaport music 

Fred the Shred/Fred Brum music and guitar collection


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 15, 2013)

Yeah, Fred, you have a problem. Nobody needs to have so many guitars.


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## Doug N (Feb 15, 2013)

I respect Merrow for honestly stating his opinion, whenever a luthier provides a freebie to a musician then they have to expect both positive and negative feedback, whatever the case may be. Gotta take the good with the bad, and that's the risk any company takes.

I've never played an S7, but if a company provides a couple of defective instruments to the freaking ARTIST then what can a normal hack expect? Not being cynical, but I'd think any guitar set to go to an artist would undergo even more stringent QC testing. After trolling around these boards for a while I noticed that there was a lot of S7 flipping going on so instead I bought a Mayones from Leonardo and I've been happy with it since.


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## F0rte (Feb 15, 2013)

crg123 said:


> Well there goes Strictly 7's reputation... haha. My friend is on the list to get a Boden, I think this might discourage him. He owned a cobra 8 and wasn't very impressed with it but they seem to be a good company. I'm surprised they would let these kind of craft issues pass inspection. I wish them luck, Keith has a lot of followers so this is a big blow to their company :/



This right here is exactly why I won't order a Strandberg unless it's built by Ola Strandberg, himself.
I haven't heard many bad things about the Boden's, but i've also never been a fan of S7 either. So i'd rather stay safe and just order from Ola.


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## Rick (Feb 15, 2013)

I find it funny that Josh Travis has been spotted using another guitar recently and is on the front page of Strictly's website and on their FB page.


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Feb 15, 2013)

flexkill said:


> So man, while your being all forthcoming and shit....what is your true feelings on the Evertune bridge???
> 
> Would you route your favorite guitar to have one installed???



I love the Evertune, really. Very cool design. But, I'd probably rather have a guitar built to incorporate that bridge, or buy one that came with it pre-installed. It seems like a pretty massive surgery to retrofit that, and you'd have to make sure the person doing it is VERY qualified. I'd be kinda scared to have someone rip into a high end custom to put that bridge on, tbh. 

But, the bridge itself is really awesome, and does exactly what it says it's designed to do.


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## trent6308 (Feb 15, 2013)

JLP2005 said:


> Jim's response actually kind of makes me want to buy one knowing he's going to be up his employee's asses over this. Even those glaring fuckups aside, the dude has major balls for owning up to these mistakes. Maybe, like I said, the company is just getting it's feet wet with expansion and being able to accommodate more orders so this might be good for them in a sense.



Kind of agree. You know every guitar to come out of that place is going to be really inspected well. Not to say they weren't before.


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## bulb (Feb 15, 2013)

LolWotGuitar said:


> This right here is exactly why I won't order a Strandberg unless it's built by Ola Strandberg, himself.
> I haven't heard many bad things about the Boden's, but i've also never been a fan of S7 either. So i'd rather stay safe and just order from Ola.



For the record, I can attest to the fact that Strandberg's actual guitars are on a whole other level from the Bodens. There were no flaws or anything like that to worry about on the Bodens, but every real strandberg I have played has consistently been a mindblowing guitar, something that is like nothing else out there.
My next Strandberg will be one built by Ola.


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## engage757 (Feb 15, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Yeah, Fred, you have a problem. Nobody needs to have so many guitars.



Speak for yourself.


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## bulb (Feb 15, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> I love the Evertune, really. Very cool design. But, I'd probably rather have a guitar built to incorporate that bridge, or buy one that came with it pre-installed. It seems like a pretty massive surgery to retrofit that, and you'd have to make sure the person doing it is VERY qualified. I'd be kinda scared to have someone rip into a high end custom to put that bridge on, tbh.
> 
> But, the bridge itself is really awesome, and does exactly what it says it's designed to do.



Agreed 100% on all points. Surprised it didn't make more of a splash considering I heard about it at NAMM 2 years ago. I had assumed maybe it wasn't the real deal, but it really is exactly what it claims to be. Just get it on a build designed around it and you are good to go!


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## Rick (Feb 15, 2013)

bulb said:


> My *next* Strandberg will be one built by Ola.



Goddamnit, how many guitars do you need?


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## JamesM (Feb 15, 2013)

Never enough.


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## bulb (Feb 15, 2013)

Rick said:


> Goddamnit, how many guitars do you need?



I have said this before, but it describes my situation perfectly.

If n is the number of guitars I currently have, then the amount I need to be happy is n + 1.


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## technomancer (Feb 15, 2013)

bulb said:


> I have said this before, but it describes my situation perfectly.
> 
> If n is the number of guitars I currently have, then the amount I need to be happy is n + 1.



Only n + 1? I usually feel like it's n + 5 or so


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## Transmissions (Feb 15, 2013)

technomancer said:


> Only n + 1? I usually feel like it's n + 5 or so


sir are you talking about electron shells?


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Feb 15, 2013)

Ron Burgundy - That Escalated Quickly - YouTube


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## Andromalia (Feb 15, 2013)

Fred the Shred said:


> NEVER!!!!!!


Fred, populating waiting lists since too long ago.©


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## Fred the Shred (Feb 15, 2013)

Nah, not really in many cases, fortunately - often builds are required for gig A or B and get squeezed in as the guys kindly understand and volunteer to do so. Considering their customers don't get shafted as a result, I can only appreciate them working extra and how I've been treated by companies.


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## Rook (Feb 15, 2013)

bulb said:


> For the record, I can attest to the fact that Strandberg's actual guitars are on a whole other level from the Bodens. There were no flaws or anything like that to worry about on the Bodens, but every real strandberg I have played has consistently been a mindblowing guitar, something that is like nothing else out there.
> My next Strandberg will be one built by Ola.



Oh god it hurts IT HURTS hahaha

I can't wait for my next any longer!!!!


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## devolutionary (Feb 15, 2013)

In my view, when a company decides to work with an individual who's popularity is primarily internet, they have to accept that when it doesn't work out that the internet will know and those views will spread. S7 took a gamble, failed to deliver, and Keith acted as any responsible individual would and informed those he communicates with as to why. This is word of mouth, this is what companies use to succeed. If they don't want to take the risk that the gamble for success in this manner entails, then they never should have worked with someone who has a substantial internet fan base. You can't have one without the other, that's a simple fact. S7 failed to deliver and as a result their gamble went the other way on them. That is business and that is life. 

Good on Keith for putting the word out in a calm manner with evidence to support his perspective. That is the mark of a good consumer and an individual with a view of what his fans and comrades deserve. We should never be silent on matters that can and will affect others, no matter how small the issue.


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 15, 2013)




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## Xaios (Feb 15, 2013)

This thread has been an interesting read! I think everyone's acquitted themselves reasonably well, for the while.

I've never owned a custom guitar, and it will likely be a while before I do. Not because I don't want one, oh no. I've basically had the look of the thing planned for about 5 years. However, watching luthiers drop like flies due to mismanagement around here has been an illuminating experience. Razar, Sherman, Patrick Sims, Roter, BRJ, Invictus... it certainly makes me reluctant to fork over a fairly significant sum of money.


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## F0rte (Feb 15, 2013)

bulb said:


> For the record, I can attest to the fact that Strandberg's actual guitars are on a whole other level from the Bodens. There were no flaws or anything like that to worry about on the Bodens, but every real strandberg I have played has consistently been a mindblowing guitar, something that is like nothing else out there.
> My next Strandberg will be one built by Ola.



This^
After trying #7, and then #21, I can say that the difference in build quality is insane and Ola has become an extremely talented luthier over the time he has been building these, and #7 was already an INSANELY great guitar. #21 however was on a completely different level. The build quality was great, the amount of effort he puts into his custom guitars is seriously great and there really isn't anything else like it.

I can also say that the amount of effort he puts into speccing out guitars that are so unique and innovative really sets him apart from many other luthiers. I currently am working on building and understanding the concept of his Hybrid Baritone, and after all of the math i've done in order to get everything perfect to my liking, I can say he has put a tremendous amount of effort into the idea. Also, with that being said, I don't expect my build to come at all close to the quality that Ola's builds are at, but you never know. Hopefully I can actually be able to compare it to #21 to see how it holds up. One way or another i'll be keeping my spot on the waiting list and buying one which is in the near future.

Speaking of all of these luthiers and custom builders, I have been really keeping a close eye on Skervesen. Their builds have been impressing me as of late and it seems that they have gained a fairly good reputation over the time they have been building guitars. Pretty interested to see what the future holds for them.


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## F0rte (Feb 15, 2013)

Xaios said:


> Razar, Sherman, Patrick Sims, Roter, BRJ, Invictus... it certainly makes me reluctant to fork over a fairly significant sum of money.


In my opinion, Roter should be a blocked word on this forum 
And i'm EXTREMELY disappointed to hear what happened with Sherman, even though it did happen awhile ago. 
I've heard great things about his guitars, and they definitely seem to catch people's eyes as well. The fact he can build such good instruments really doesn't give justification for being a money-grubbing prick, in fact it should be the opposite. If you have the ability to make great instruments, then make great instruments and be reasonable..not too much to ask I don't think.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 15, 2013)

I don't think the same fate is in store for Strictly 7, but their stuff is not in league with the really expensive builders. A couple of years ago, Jim was willing to build me a pretty basic 6 string for $1100.... Like, seriously - some of you would pay that much for a custom Agile, which would more often than not come with it's share of imperfections, and it will not be as nice as a Strictly 7. For the prices they have, they're good guitars, just not in any shape or form a preference of mine.


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## zimbloth (Feb 15, 2013)

These situations are always so unfortunate. As a former S7 dealer, I was always honest and up front with customers who ask me about these guitars in private about our opinions on them. However Jim is a nice guy and hope things get better for him. I wouldnt be surprised if they are capable of building some really nice guitars. I sure hope the Bodens we have on order are nice. I'll always give something a chance once, and if it doesnt meet our standards, we move on. 

As for Bernie Rico, for all his issues as of late, I still had an 8 year relationship with him where everything he sent me/us was flawless and amazing. Easily the finest guitars I've ever played at the time. I do hope he gets past his current predicament but who knows. I do know he was always a standup guy and not a flat out crook/fraud like a lot of these guys out there who shall remain nameless.

Its really heartbreaking whats been happening lately with all these companies. I'll leave you with this: as a dealer, I now sleep much better at night dealing with custom shops from ESP, Dean, PRS, G&L, Schecter, and other more stable companies. That stinks because as an independent, started-with-nothing guy myself, I want so badly to work with ambitious independent builders out there, but usually it ends up being a huge headache. I know there are still some really good ones out there. I hear nothing but good things about Blackwater guitars from customers of mine for example.


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## nothingleft09 (Feb 16, 2013)

I think I will take Halohat's approach to this as well. I live in northern Indiana and if any of you guys who haven't played an S7 end up around the area for whatever reason then shoot me a PM. I've got no problem with you stopping by and playing mine.  Just bring somethin cool to play along with you and we can jam for a bit. lol 

The only thing that really bothers me about this is the people jumping on a hate bandwagon that Keith himself didn't even start, when they have never even held an S7 in their hands let alone having played one. Keith handled it well, and the internet trolls grabbed their armchair torches and headed out to start shit as usual. If you've played one and genuinely didn't like it, I don't fault you for it. I've played a ton of guitars I don't like. Everyone that plays something has an opinion on it. I just can't stand when someone has an opinion on how something is made or how it plays when they haven't even seen one in real life.


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav (Feb 16, 2013)

I may have to take you up on that, one day. I still really want to try an S7 guitars, because other than this, I've liked what I've seen.


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## nothingleft09 (Feb 16, 2013)

No problem. I live about 30 miles north of Fort Wayne. Just hit me up. lol


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## JoeyBTL (Feb 16, 2013)

bulb said:


> For the record, I can attest to the fact that Strandberg's actual guitars are on a whole other level from the Bodens. There were no flaws or anything like that to worry about on the Bodens, but every real strandberg I have played has consistently been a mindblowing guitar, something that is like nothing else out there.
> My next Strandberg will be one built by Ola.



A certain signature artist from that company would say differently


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## technomancer (Feb 16, 2013)

JoeyBTL said:


> A certain signature artist from that company would say differently



Yep he did... he was also trying to promote his sig model


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## bulb (Feb 16, 2013)

JoeyBTL said:


> A certain signature artist from that company would say differently



Oh, the guy who says that there is no art in guitar making after it has been CNC'd. Yeah that only goes against everything that everyone has ever known from actual experience haha.


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## Marv Attaxx (Feb 16, 2013)

The only luthier I'd trust these days (well, without paying a fortune) are the guys at RAN haha


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## JoeyBTL (Feb 16, 2013)

bulb said:


> Oh, the guy who says that there is no art in guitar making after it has been CNC'd. Yeah that only goes against everything that everyone has ever known from actual experience haha.



Yep that one haha you can teach a 12 year old to do it!


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## Andromalia (Feb 16, 2013)

Marv Attaxx said:


> The only luthier I'd trust these days (well, without paying a fortune) are the guys at RAN haha


Well, there's hope: Ran had its share of issues a few years ago. They worked hard to overcome them and are much more reliable now.


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## timbale (Feb 16, 2013)

Marv Attaxx said:


> The only luthier I'd trust these days (well, without paying a fortune) are the guys at RAN haha



Skervesen... try them.


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## jacksonplayer (Feb 16, 2013)

Overtone said:


> The talk of growing pains gives me even more appreciation for the early days of the Jackson custom shop. If you look at the serial numbers they were putting out a pretty serious volume even in the San Dimas days and the quality was unbelievable in the first factory! Not as knowledgeable about Ontario....



Jackson/Charvel had a fairly sizable staff by small builder standards, even in the San Dimas era, so they could produce many more guitars than a company like S7G. 

Also, early Jacksons and Charvels have all kinds of quirks, too--stuff that people would go ballistic over today. One example: on guitars with Kahler behind-the-nut string locks, in the early days Jackson would often just screw on the string lock OVER the truss rod cover. The screws on the string lock would partly stick out of the headstock, and it looked like shit. Also, it meant that you had to remove the string lock to adjust the truss rod, which of course meant that you had to un-string the guitar. I've also run into early Jacksons with truss rod covers that were very crudely cut (like with a scissors or knife) to avoid this problem. Eventually, they started using properly shaped truss rod covers that would fit around the contours of the string lock and not cause a problem.

The fit and finish on San Dimas-era Jacksons/Charvels was very good, but not perfect. The difference is that in the pre-Internet era, the only guitars you had to compare to were what else you could find locally. People weren't as picky back then.


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## devolutionary (Feb 16, 2013)

JoeyBTL said:


> Yep that one haha you can teach a 12 year old to do it!



Hey, teaching 12 year olds to make Strandberg quality? I'm buying my South Asian warehouse right now!


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## Xaios (Feb 17, 2013)

To this day, the most hilarious custom guitar fuck-up (although it probably wasn't funny for the owner) was a particular Halo. They didn't drill out string ferrules into this guitar. Instead, they simply strung the strings through holes at the back of the bridge, and THEN they mounted the bridge to the body. You'd literally have to remove the bridge to change the strings on this guitar.


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## NegaTiveXero (Feb 17, 2013)

Xaios said:


> To this day, the most hilarious custom guitar fuck-up (although it probably wasn't funny for the owner) was a particular Halo. They didn't drill out string ferrules into this guitar. Instead, they simply strung the strings through holes at the back of the bridge, and THEN they mounted the bridge to the body. You'd literally have to remove the bridge to change the strings on this guitar.



I remember that shit. That was hilarious. It was a Halo Octavia or something like that.


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## Progfather (Feb 17, 2013)

My hand hurts just looking at this.


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## SnowfaLL (Feb 17, 2013)

Xaios said:


> This thread has been an interesting read! I think everyone's acquitted themselves reasonably well, for the while.
> 
> I've never owned a custom guitar, and it will likely be a while before I do. Not because I don't want one, oh no. I've basically had the look of the thing planned for about 5 years. However, watching luthiers drop like flies due to mismanagement around here has been an illuminating experience. Razar, Sherman, Patrick Sims, Roter, BRJ, Invictus... it certainly makes me reluctant to fork over a fairly significant sum of money.



I picked the greatest luthiers for my customs so far; Chris Woods, Patrick Sims and Bernie Rico JR.. Those were my first 3 "attempts" into the custom world. I think you can understand how I don't have any of them (minus a cracked RG body from Sims) lol Yet I somehow still have faith theres SOME decent small luthiers out there. But I'd never go with any that is not well known anymore, wither that be ones getting great reviews like Blackwater or Egan Guitars, It just makes me wayyy too nervous.

The #1 thing is COMMUNICATION; I don't even care if my guitar takes an extra year to build (it sucks but whatever) - but if they can keep in communication with me once a month or two, Im fine. It seems communication is great until you give over your money, then they drop from the face of the earth (my instances with Woods and BRJ) and you feel so stranded you don't even want the guitar anymore out of the sheer disrespect.

So, going forward I think Im sticking with Carvin for almost everything, and thankfully the one luthier I trust now is because I met him in person multiple times, and his communication/business model is great (Brian Bowes) so thats all for me. Im still hesitant at all from small builders but knowing Brian for close to 7 years now, I think I have the least chance of being fucked over by him than anyone else out there. Canadians don't have it in them to blatantly rip off people like BRJ or Chris Woods did -_-

But I will say, S7 lately HAS been looking trustworthy to me; I follow their facebook and Jim answers a lot of questions there, and I was actually considering getting one of the Boden's.. If he at least tried to make it right with Keith, I don't see a major issue here -Every shop is going to have fucedkup guitars, but communication and standing behind the fuckup is the true test of a good company. And from what I've read on Keith's statements if I recall, Jim tried to fix it for him, but Keith just was fed up at that point (rightfully so) - but It still looks like one of the better companies. This whole thread seems like a major blow-up-over-nothing.


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## chimp_spanner (Feb 17, 2013)

I already commented on this over on Keith's post but I think it's worth repeating. I've played a couple of S7's I really liked (at Euroblast, and at a guitar/amp demo session in Belgium with Ola and Fred). There's no doubt in my mind that if they take control of the situation and keep a smaller client list to whom they can deliver exceptional service, they can turn this around. Obviously they have to balance that against the need to expand. I can't say I'd know how to handle it. But at the same time, plenty of luthiers ARE managing it. I don't think it would take much to get S7 back on track, and Jim's open and frank admission of where they're falling down is a really good start. And it's also good to see there's a lot of activity in their workshop. 

I was supposed to play S7's on my tour of the states. Unfortunately I think they ran out of time to put together the guitar I actually asked for, and I ended up with a guitar that COULD have been great (amazing sound, super playable, great fretwork) but had a couple of flaws, one of which was potentially a show stopper. They acknowledged that it never should have left the shop. And that was where my journey with S7 ended. I can't really complain because I didn't lose anything. In the end I chose to go with Ibanez because...well...why wouldn't I? I've been playing them for years. And I think someone else nailed it in this thread. There are too many artists ready to endorse guitars they know NOTHING about, and it just ends up making everyone look bad. They see "free" or "artist pricing" and jump straight in. I made the same mistake, twice. But as a poor musician, it's an easy one to make 

If I may say, I think there's also an obsession with the word "custom". I understand the desire to own something a little special but I know way too many guitarists who have literally just started playing and straight off the bat they're bored of the perfectly functional instrument they have and are like "I need to get a custom and an Axe FX and everything else I see people I like playing". So ya know, we shouldn't act too surprised when companies try and capitalize on that obsession. 

You guys know what I mean, right? Seems like everyone's an expert on woods these days...I'd like to see more people just focusing on the business of playing guitar and going with a brand/luthier because a) they're ready for it and b) they genuinely LOVE their work. And I accept that artist endorsement does play a role. I would not accept any offer now unless I have played an instrument and fallen in love with it and can see that my experience is not isolated or the result of preferential treatment.

In any case I'm already smitten with the guitars I own. So I'm happy


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## Dan (Feb 17, 2013)

Couldn't have put it better Paul. Very well said. I wonder how many of these "wood experts" would be able to tell the difference purely by sound though? 

I've played an S7. I quite liked it if i'm totally honest, and if the specs and shape were right i'd consider purchasing a new one. I think Keith was totally honest and upfront about why he chose to look at other options, however the internet is a place where all things are blown way out of proportion and as a reuslt the negative will far outshine the positives in this situation. 

I honestly hope they do well, but i believe they need to prioritise quality over quantity and take the time to make amazing instruments.


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## simonXsludge (Feb 17, 2013)

chimp_spanner said:


> "I need to get a custom and an Axe FX and everything else I see people I like playing"


This! It seems to be a "Djent" thing, though. I remember when everyone tried to find "their own" sound.

But the aesthetics of Djent guitar tones and productions are so ridiculously overcloned, everything just sounds the exact same. I can't even express my hate for the clean AxeFX patch countless Djent bands seem to be using for their delay-y backing tracks. Doesn't help that everyone is playing the same BK pickups either. 

This whole behaviour partially explains why some of the smaller companies like S7 or BRJ are getting blasted with more orders than they could handle, from one day to another. Often and mostly from people who have never touched their guitars before. I wish more people would just try to find their own voice in tone and music and be less concerned about what everyone else is using and sounding like already. 

Sorry for the slight OT.


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## chimp_spanner (Feb 17, 2013)

shitsøn;3418399 said:


> ...find their own voice in tone and music...
> 
> Sorry for the slight OT.



Yeah don't want to take this too far off topic, and maybe we can pick this up in a thread elsewhere but you took the words out of my mouth. You can find your voice on a Gio. You can find it on a Mayones. You can find it anywhere in between. At any rate, most of us have access to gear that some folk out there would kill to have, even though to us it's "just" production. I owe my sound to stock Ibanez pickups  funny. I really liked them on the 1527!!

Anyway, I've derailed enough


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## technomancer (Feb 17, 2013)

shitsøn;3418399 said:


> This! It seems to be a "Djent" thing, though. I remember when everyone tried to find "their own" sound.
> 
> But the aesthetics of Djent guitar tones and productions are so ridiculously overcloned, everything just sounds the exact same. I can't even express my hate for the clean AxeFX patch countless Djent bands seem to be using for their delay-y backing tracks. Doesn't help that everyone is playing the same BK pickups either.
> 
> ...



This is pretty much true of EVERY genre of music. Hair metal, shred, death metal, metalcore, etc etc etc It happens over and over, guitarists hear something they like and try to sound JUST LIKE THAT. It's not specific to djent at all, nor is it anything new


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 17, 2013)

technomancer said:


> This is pretty much true of EVERY genre of music. Hair metal, shred, death metal, metalcore, etc etc etc It happens over and over, guitarists hear something they like and try to sound JUST LIKE THAT. It's not specific to djent at all, nor is it anything new



Also true - we're just noticing it because the Djent thing is big on this board.


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## technomancer (Feb 17, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Also true - we're just noticing it because the Djent thing is big on this board.



Exactly


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## simonXsludge (Feb 17, 2013)

I think it is a little more intense with Djent, since it is such a gear nerd type of genre. When I started playing in bands and even touring, pretty much everyone had a different amp.


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Feb 17, 2013)

shitsøn;3418463 said:


> I think it is a little more intense with Djent, since it is such a gear nerd type of genre. When I started playing in bands and even touring, pretty much everyone had a different amp.



It's actually more intense with the contemporary rock/blues/country guys. I work for Seymour Duncan during the days, and 90% of the phone calls and emails are guys with Strats, Teles, and Les Paul guitars, wanting to know how to get their sound EXACTLY like Brent Mason, Slash, etc.


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## Overtone (Feb 17, 2013)

jacksonplayer said:


> Jackson/Charvel had a fairly sizable staff by small builder standards, even in the San Dimas era, so they could produce many more guitars than a company like S7G.
> 
> Also, early Jacksons and Charvels have all kinds of quirks, too--stuff that people would go ballistic over today. One example: on guitars with Kahler behind-the-nut string locks, in the early days Jackson would often just screw on the string lock OVER the truss rod cover. The screws on the string lock would partly stick out of the headstock, and it looked like shit. Also, it meant that you had to remove the string lock to adjust the truss rod, which of course meant that you had to un-string the guitar. I've also run into early Jacksons with truss rod covers that were very crudely cut (like with a scissors or knife) to avoid this problem. Eventually, they started using properly shaped truss rod covers that would fit around the contours of the string lock and not cause a problem.
> 
> The fit and finish on San Dimas-era Jacksons/Charvels was very good, but not perfect. The difference is that in the pre-Internet era, the only guitars you had to compare to were what else you could find locally. People weren't as picky back then.



I've seen some of the group photos in the early catalogs and they did indeed have a big team! I think that's ultimately it... if you are serious about a company you invest in growth as much as you can and make sure you don't have a shortage of well trained people. A lot of the custom shop woes nowadays are because you have someone like Sherman or Rico who has good intentions about wanting their product to be widely available and affordable, but they aren't able to have that long term vision about how they will have to increase production output. Which is not to say there aren't smaller and one man shops out there maintaining quality without letting down their customers with long waits and flaws ranging from aesthetic to serious. If S7G know where they stand and what kind of company they want to be I think they can get things back on track and succeed. 

I wasn't aware of those QC problems... I've just seen a few of the early guitar that were all awesome and I'd look at the serials and think "How was a company that just got started putting out this many guitars with these kinda finishes, fretwork, etc?"


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## Rook (Feb 17, 2013)

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> It's actually more intense with the contemporary rock/blues/country guys. I work for Seymour Duncan during the days, and 90% of the phone calls and emails are guys with Strats, Teles, and Les Paul guitars, wanting to know how to get their sound EXACTLY like Brent Mason, Slash, etc.



This is my exact experience. I worked in the only dealer in Thames Valley (a chunk of England with lots of very wealthy towns) and Berkshire (a big country I'm England FULL of wealthy towns) of seriously high end and vintage/used gear at the time and half my time was spent showing mid-later thirties plus men how to sound like:
Hank Marvin
Slash
Eric Clapton
Jeff Beck
Any British invader or yardbirds member (lol)

The metal kids - though usually working around an idol - were more sporadic. Different but the same hahaha.

We would get people coming in looking for particular zinc compound saddles for their strats cos that's what x 60-something-year-old 'legend' has, people looking for specific capacitors, buying particular string trees for goodness sake.

The djent kids got nothing on those guys


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## oneblackened (Feb 17, 2013)

Rook said:


> This is my exact experience. I worked in the only dealer in Thames Valley (a chunk of England with lots of very wealthy towns) and Berkshire (a big country I'm England FULL of wealthy towns) of seriously high end and vintage/used gear at the time and half my time was spent showing mid-later thirties plus men how to sound like:
> Hank Marvin
> Slash
> Eric Clapton
> ...



I know some metal guys like that actually... it really just makes you wonder, how much does it REALLY matter?

Also, if S7G can clean up their quality they could be interesting.


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## SnowfaLL (Feb 17, 2013)

What about the "elitist fusion" guys - if you dont play a Suhr through some boutique amp like a CAE, at the VERY LEAST a Bogner, you can't be a good player!

Djent is actually broad IMO; tons of guitars from cheap Ibanez's to Petrucci's to the top end Strandberg and Blackmachines.. Much more options to "get that tone" than the straight vintage Tele with a specific finish needed for country or specific archtops needed for jazz.

(Of course I think its all BS, but the method I use is I listen to a song I want to play, close my eyes and imagine what I would dream of playing it on; often times its the same 2-3 guitars I have coming to me finally, so I think I made the right choices.. whatever genre it is. Chambered bodies ftw)


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## technomancer (Feb 17, 2013)

*All right guys, let's get this back on-topic or it's going to get closed*


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## Llexileon (Feb 17, 2013)

Some of the issues being described here are mainly materials related - Ebony shrinkage is common if you don't use properly aged and dried woods. The wood shrinks and then you're left with knives along your fretboard, this is why quality and consistency of materials is so important when building instruments. A couple of posters also mentioned that the guitars did not stand up well in changing temperatures - once again, a properly aged and dried maple neck should not warp much if at all, but if you use recently cut maple with a high water content it'll flex and bow all over the place when it gets hot.

Regardless of the finish flaws and other minor construction niggles, the thing i'd be most worried about is spending $2k on a guitar which is made with cheap wood. It might look great and have high end hardware, but thats all worthless if the wood is not up to standard.

Its worth noting that any build can be ruined by poor wood selection, and sometimes even the best custom shops can miss a defect in the wood through no fault of their own - particularly a knot or defect which is inside a supposedly high quality aged/dried wood blank, such a defect would be invisible until you cut the the neck up into sections to try and find out why it's a dud.

Going off on a little tangent here's a custom shop story of my own:


I had an unfortunate situation with ESP where a fantastic guitar that had been custom built for me slowly deteriorated to the point of being unplayable and no set up could fix it. It arrived flawless and sounded fantastic, but unfortunately there was no saving it 

This was a neck wood issue hidden in the maple slab that arrived as a beautifully straight and subtly figured neck, but slowly succumbed to the knot within. 

Upon reviewing the reports from my technician who could not figure out the problem and was unable to set the neck correctly, they requested the guitar be returned to them. 

Once ESP uncovered the issue they gave me a very sincere apology, which was followed by an offer to build me a completely new custom from scratch, at no charge, and with no pressure to stick to the original specification. 

In the end they replaced a $5800 list guitar build with a $7400 list build, so that worked out nicely


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## Experimorph (Feb 17, 2013)

I wish people did their research more thoroughly before hopping on the hatewagon. I have some serious respect for Keith, Jim and everyone involved for all the open talk and honesty displayed. While going public, this whole matter has been handled extremely professionally so far.


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## oneblackened (Feb 17, 2013)

Llexileon said:


> Some of the issues being described here are mainly materials related - Ebony shrinkage is common if you don't use properly aged and dried woods. The wood shrinks and then you're left with knives along your fretboard, this is why quality and consistency of materials is so important when building instruments. A couple of posters also mentioned that the guitars did not stand up well in changing temperatures - once again, a properly aged and dried maple neck should not warp much if at all, but if you use recently cut maple with a high water content it'll flex and bow all over the place when it gets hot.
> 
> Regardless of the finish flaws and other minor construction niggles, the thing i'd be most worried about is spending $2k on a guitar which is made with cheap wood. It might look great and have high end hardware, but thats all worthless if the wood is not up to standard.
> 
> Its worth noting that any build can be ruined by poor wood selection, and sometimes even the best custom shops can miss a defect in the wood through no fault of their own - particularly a knot or defect which is inside a supposedly high quality aged/dried wood blank, such a defect would be invisible until you cut the the neck up into sections to try and find out why it's a dud.


 So true. I've had issues with guitars I've built having the bodies get all out of whack from temp/humidity changes. Really sucks. 

Rule? Make sure your wood is stable before you do anything, if you can. And if you miss something, own up to it.



Llexileon said:


> Upon reviewing the reports from my technician who could not figure out the problem and was unable to set the neck correctly, they requested the guitar be returned to them.
> 
> Once ESP uncovered the issue they gave me a very sincere apology, which was followed by an offer to build me a completely new custom from scratch, at no charge, and with no pressure to stick to the original specification.
> 
> In the end they replaced a $5800 list guitar build with a $7400 list build, so that worked out nicely


And I'd say this is very similar to what S7 did (or offered to do) for Keith. With instruments of this price point, CS is incredibly important, especially from such small companies.


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## nothingleft09 (Feb 17, 2013)

Let me be clear on something though. There have been a lot of fast temp fluctuations where I live recently. I'm not saying it's an ongoing problem with my S7. I've had the same problems out of my other guitars as well and they just needed some minor tweaking is all. I regularly look at neck relief on my guitars cuz I'm a picky bastard and lately here where I live in Indiana one day it can be raining, then drop 20 degrees and start snowing in a matter of hours and 30 miles away its not that bad. lol


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## jehu12141987 (Feb 18, 2013)

You're so wise Paul.


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## angus (Feb 18, 2013)

shitsøn;3418399 said:


> This! It seems to be a "Djent" thing, though. I remember when everyone tried to find "their own" sound.
> 
> But the aesthetics of Djent guitar tones and productions are so ridiculously overcloned, everything just sounds the exact same. I can't even express my hate for the clean AxeFX patch countless Djent bands seem to be using for their delay-y backing tracks. Doesn't help that everyone is playing the same BK pickups either.



This behavior has existed in every realm of music long before djent. Every country player has a telecaster and an old Fender amp, same for blues and a stratocaster, every guitarist in the 80s had a Marshall amp, every Yngwie fan scalloped their frets, every kid in the mid/late-90s bought a black Ibanez 7 string because of Korn (and got into metal 80's covers because of Limp Bizkit), and everyone into grunge wore flannel (I should know- I grew up in Seattle). It has nothing to do with djent and everything to do with human nature.

It has ever been thus.


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## Sepultorture (Feb 18, 2013)

please back to stictly 7 and build quality and not genre and trend discussion please


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## Curt (Feb 24, 2013)

These S7 horror stories do remind me of a few small builders in their early stages. Honestly, though... I am not one to actually buy without having tried the product before. Much less to try to discredit, or vouch for something I have zero experience with. But I think it is safe to say I am glad I don't think an S7 is in my future.


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## facepalm66 (Feb 24, 2013)

One says that the company is bad, then 100000 says the fucking same thing. Just like with the genre bullshit.

I don't really see a 10 page worth topic for few paint dings or nut replacing.. Just not worth it. Plus all can be fixed for 5$, and no need for the river of tears and flaming upon the whole company.

Sure there happens to be bigger issues like the fretwork. Yes, it is the companys fault, but hey - every company may send one too. Happened with the esp, ibanez, gibson - everyone. So just ask for giving back money or fixing the guitar.

I just don't think it's as bad as it's stated, and this whole topic is more hate - based or just following the herd.

I may be hated / negrep'ed on this, but this is my opinion.


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## Aztec (Feb 24, 2013)

As expected quite a few S7's suddenly popped up in the marketplace.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 24, 2013)

Aztec said:


> As expected quite a few S7's suddenly popped up in the marketplace.




I would expect people to wait a while after a thread like this before selling their Strictly 7, actually.


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## thrsher (Feb 24, 2013)

this thread had nothing to do with my sale, i just purchased a 3k guitar and i need to recoup money.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 24, 2013)

Yeah, my point was that if people were scared of losing value on their instrument, they wouldn't sell it right when everybody was reading about how said instruments might be flawed. So, I would chalk it up to coincidence.

They're no KxK's or Rico's, but they're also half the price, and they do play well enough to warrant such a low price tag. I think this is the bottom line here.


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## thrsher (Feb 24, 2013)

completely right. right now, i have the s7+1 and an agile 828. i would MUCH rather keep the s7+1 but i need money!


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## MikeDojcsak (Feb 24, 2013)

Rook said:


> This is my exact experience. I worked in the only dealer in Thames Valley (a chunk of England with lots of very wealthy towns) and Berkshire (a big country I'm England FULL of wealthy towns) of seriously high end and vintage/used gear at the time and half my time was spent showing mid-later thirties plus men how to sound like:
> Hank Marvin
> Slash
> Eric Clapton
> ...



Yeah, I used to frequent that board pretty often as well, and it got to be too much.

It made me shudder how their descriptions sounded more like food than musical instruments. "I'm looking for a creamy, buttery lead tone."


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## epsylon (Feb 25, 2013)

Andromalia said:


> Well, there's hope: Ran had its share of issues a few years ago. They worked hard to overcome them and are much more reliable now.



I've heard horror stories about recent Rans though...


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## Xaios (Feb 25, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> They're no KxK's or Rico's, but they're also half the price, and they do play well enough to warrant such a low price tag. I think this is the bottom line here.



Have KxK's ever had these kinds of issues? I haven't heard any of those stories, personally.


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## DarkWolfXV (Feb 25, 2013)

epsylon said:


> I've heard horror stories about recent Rans though...


 
I wanna hear them, i considered buying RAN...


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## Xaios (Feb 25, 2013)

MikeDojcsak said:


> Yeah, I used to frequent that board pretty often as well, and it got to be too much.
> 
> It made me shudder how their descriptions sounded more like food than musical instruments. "I'm looking for a creamy, buttery lead tone."



Eh, those aren't anymore egregious than "djent tone."


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## mniel8195 (Feb 25, 2013)

this is a simple thing. buy a guitar from a dude that has been making guitars for 20 or 30 years.


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## Adam Of Angels (Feb 25, 2013)

The length of time somebody has been doing something is not a true indicator of their skill level. It's not a bad place to start though, haha


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## stratjacket (Feb 25, 2013)

To me the take away is this is probably growing pains from S7 and they'll be fixed and will be better for it in the long run. I also think you can find some issue somewhere for any guitar company. I just did a quick google search revealing issues structural build issues with Mayones, EBMM JP's, and other hi-end guitars. I don't read too much into this as long as the company seems willing to fix things and S7 seem like they are.

I have an S7 Solar 7 and it's perfectly built, just not perfect for me. I should have stayed clear of tremolos, but that's my issue. So I will be putting up on here for sale, but I am tempted to hold on to it for a year or so until this blows over. Just don't know.


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## bulb (Feb 25, 2013)

mniel8195 said:


> this is a simple thing. buy a guitar from a dude that has been making guitars for 20 or 30 years.



That pretty much puts, Daemoness, Mayones, Blackmachine, ViK, Decibel and Strandberg out of the picture, no big deal.


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## mniel8195 (Feb 25, 2013)

true dat misha my bad. how about buy a Daemoness, Mayones, Blackmachine, ViK, Decibel and Strandberg.


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## Xaios (Feb 25, 2013)

Funny enough, that metric also probably gives BRJ and Sherman a pass.


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## bulb (Feb 25, 2013)

mniel8195 said:


> true dat misha my bad. how about buy a Daemoness, Mayones, Blackmachine, ViK, Decibel and Strandberg.



I do stand by those brands because they consistently deliver and improve.


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## F1Filter (Feb 25, 2013)

Xaios said:


> Have KxK's ever had these kinds of issues? I haven't heard any of those stories, personally.



Nothing as bad AFAIK. There were mostly issues with setups on the original run of Sii-7's. Aside from that, the occasional problem with finishes has popped up along with the usual complaints about turnaround times. But still, it would be surprising if Rob ever sent out a gtr in that condition.


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## Viginez (Feb 26, 2013)

epsylon said:


> I've heard horror stories about recent Rans though...


 
 recent? horror? hard to believe.


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## troyguitar (Feb 26, 2013)

bulb said:


> That pretty much puts, Daemoness, Mayones, Blackmachine, ViK, Decibel and Strandberg out of the picture, no big deal.



Actually, for everyone who is not named bulb, you could order something from most of those brands and they will have been in business for 20+ years by the time you actually receive it...



(The exception being Mayones, who incidentally have been in business for 30 years)


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## wowspare (Mar 2, 2013)

Most of the responses to Keith's initial post were pretty ignorant..... As if other manufacturers never make lemons every now and then? And Jim handled the situation in the best way imaginable. S7 is clearly a company that's in it for the passion of guitars and not some company that wants to make as much money as possible


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## Splinterhead (Mar 2, 2013)

I dunno. I've seen guitars that have been built by companies who've been in business for many many decades and their high end stuff has been very flawed. Companies like **bs*n and f**d** come to mind.
Try to get a hold of someone at their offices? yeah sure.


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## poopyalligator (Mar 2, 2013)

Splinterhead said:


> I dunno. I've seen guitars that have been built by companies who've been in business for many many decades and their high end stuff has been very flawed. Companies like **bs*n and f**d** come to mind.
> Try to get a hold of someone at their offices? yeah sure.




My local shop sent a whole shipment of 50+ guitars back to Gibson because they had horrible fretwork, and a few had twisted necks.


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## Polythoral (Mar 2, 2013)

I've never heard anything real terrible about the final quality of S7's, but I hear endlessly on how builds very often end up taking well longer than quoted, and how they fuck up the specs a lot. 

That said, Jim does seem like a real nice guy who is willing to make things right usually. A friend of mines order ended up with the wrong fretboard wood (as well as the top being messed up a bit from what was asked for) and when she mentioned it to Jim he basically instantly offered to do a full rebuild.

Obviously, it should be right in the first place, but at least he's willing to do right when he fucks up.


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## DeathMentaL (Mar 4, 2013)

I was considering one a lot but his comments turned me off.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Mar 5, 2013)

Is keith playing BRJ guitars now?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 5, 2013)

arkansasmatt said:


> Is keith playing BRJ guitars now?



He said he wouldn't recommend them, either.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Mar 5, 2013)

^Really. Whats he playing now i wonder.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 5, 2013)

Whatever, I guess. He has his Agiles, Mayones, and has a ViK being built.


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## Syriel (Mar 5, 2013)

arkansasmatt said:


> ^Really. Whats he playing now i wonder.



Mayones.

And I think his Vik just got completed.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 5, 2013)

Syriel said:


> Mayones.
> 
> And I think his Vik just got completed.



It is.


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## MJS (Mar 5, 2013)

Pretty sure he still loves _his_ BRJs, but was advising against placing an order for one now because things have obviously changed a lot since those were made.  

I could be wrong, but I think he sold all of the Agiles except for the Darth Vader one, which seems to be more of a decoration than one that gets played. 

That Vik is amazing... can't wait to see that one show up in a video. 

I love this old progress pic of the top...


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## Snarpaasi (Mar 5, 2013)

Fantastic top. What wood is that?


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## jbard (Mar 5, 2013)

Looks like burled redwood.


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## Nyx Erebos (Mar 5, 2013)

It looks like a living thing


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## Sepultorture (Mar 5, 2013)

Nyx Erebos said:


> It looks like a living thing



kinda like melting flesh \m/


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## possumkiller (Mar 5, 2013)

Or an extreme close-up of a living brain!


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## DIOBOLIC5150 (Mar 5, 2013)

arkansasmatt said:


> ^Really. Whats he playing now i wonder.



I'm just playing guitars that I like to play.


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## MetalDaze (Mar 5, 2013)

That top is amazing. Looks like a million melting souls


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## DeathMentaL (Mar 5, 2013)

MJS said:


> Pretty sure he still loves _his_ BRJs, but was advising against placing an order for one now because things have obviously changed a lot since those were made.
> 
> I could be wrong, but I think he sold all of the Agiles except for the Darth Vader one, which seems to be more of a decoration than one that gets played.
> 
> ...



WOW!!!


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## eventuate (Mar 5, 2013)

Well...I was gonna say it reminded me of pizza, but souls and brains work too...

Fantastic top no matter what.


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