# ENGL combos...for metal?



## Esp Griffyn (Jul 29, 2011)

Hey guys

In my ever-lasting quest to find an amp I'm happy to drop some cash on, I have come across ENGL combos. For someone who is usually pretty savvy with his gear I'm slightly embarrassed to admit I don't know much about ENGL amps!

I have not played one in years, and the only one I did play was a Thunder half stack that was not turned up very loud (and therefore probably not even close to saturating the tubes) and I was not impressed. Little did I know at the time that you have to pump at least a bit of volume through a tube amp to get a good sound - not that I could have anyway because I was in an asshole guitar shop. However, now I'm seeing the prices on these things I'm wondering if I should give them another chance...

Unfortunately, I simply don't have time to get out and about to try out all the amps I would like to. Unfortunately, I'm also getting married and going to start looking into getting a house next year too, so dropping £3000 on a Mesa Boogie rig isn't going to cut it. On the upshot, I've long since grown out of PodXT tone, I want a proper tube amp! I would be willing to buy blind (or deaf?) on an amp I've never heard outside of youtube if I had confidence in it's pedigree.

So, ENGL amps; the ones I'm looking at are the Thunder 50 Watt 1x12 Reverb E320, the Thunder 50 watt 1x12 Drive E322 (not sure what the difference is there, does anyone have a definitive non "sales speak" answer, cause I can't find one!) and the Screamer 50 watt. What are the differences between these amps? 

I play mainly death metal, a mix of old and new school. I tune my Bc Rich Pat O Brien V to C standard, and in my music I use a lot of fast passages of low notes with string skipping similar to Black Dahlia Murder. As such, I like my tone to be saturated, tight and clear, or the notes just get lost and mushed into one another. I like to boost my mids for added clarity and tightness. I prefer bright, aggressive tones to scooped, flat sounding ones and I can't stand harsh, ice-picky highs. I think getting a tube amp would solve a lot of my problems and could give me the tight lows without having to compromise by having a harsh high end. Could one of these ENGL amps be the answer to my tone prayers? Obviously I would invest in a decent OD pedal and a noise-gate if I needed them.

Finally, if all amp brands have a tonal characteristic that defines them, what is ENGLs? For example, Mesa are scooped and quite dark, Marshall are gritty and quite "classic" in their gain sound, 5150s have huge low-mid presence and tight gain etc.

Cheers for any advice and if I buy an ENGL amp all contributors to this thread will receive a cookie.


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## Dionysian (Jul 29, 2011)

In my experience, ENGL are typically defined by a clinically tight, extremely clear (almost sterile to some) heavily saturated gain tone. They let you use tonnes of gain for that epic feeling of using too much gain without fucking up the tone or tightness - still retaining clear chording etc etc. They are also extremely compressed to my ears.

Bear in mind that I have experience only with the Powerball and Blackmore any my E530 preamp -- all of which are pretty modern-voiced unlike the Thunder and Screamer which are supposedly more classic/oldschool voiced.

In the metal amp world I like to think of the modern ENGL-amps as the diametrical opposites of the 5150's -- which are a lot more "alive" and gnarly, less compressed and not "surgically tight" the same way as the ENGL's.


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## Dvaienat (Jul 29, 2011)

^ exactly this. 

I've nothing to add other than that you need to beware using combos for metal. Due to their open back construction, alot of the bass is lost out the back and they lose alot of clarity. Clarity is especially important since you tune down. As such, I'd reccomend a Thunder 50 or Screamer 50 head into a closed back 1x12, such as the Orange PPC112 or Engl Pro 1x12. It will cost a little more but in terms of tone it will pay off indeed.

The Thunder/Screamer are voiced more open with less gain and saturation in my experience.


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 29, 2011)

Eskil Rask said:


> They are also extremely compressed to my ears.



Bugger, that could be a real deal breaker - if I wanted compressed tone I'd stick to using my Pod 

I have also been looking at the Marshall combos - I'm trying to think outside the box a bit. I know a lot of people feel the game has moved on in death metal but everyone and their grandma playing extreme metal these days seems to only use 5150s or Mesa Boogie!

Something like a TSL with an OD pedal maybe...

Marshall TSL 601

I don't need Children of Bodom style ultra-gain tone in the bedroom, and I certainly don't want anything that sounds too compressed. Maybe a cranked Marshall of some kind could give me the old skool chug I want but retain the harmonic brightness that I like about Modern amps 

I've also been looking at the Marshall 2203KK head, I love the way that sounds, but I'd need a speaker cab to go with it and from there the price is already north of £1300 at least!


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## Vostre Roy (Jul 29, 2011)

Hey, I can help you here a little.

I own an Engl Thunder 50 head as my main amp. First thing I was worried when I bought it was the clean channel, I was then owning a Fender combo and the clean was quite good, the one on the Thunder is simply amazing. Unlike the Fireball or Powerball, this amp si more "natural" sounding. Like they say on the website: "The basic concept of the THUNDER series was just to strip the handling to the bone but deliver convincing sounds." That means that this amp is really minimalist, so its quite useful if you want to use extern effects. I drive mine through a MxR GT-OD (Tubscreamer clone) and the Lead channel deliver some impressive tone (note that I play with the preamp/poweramp volume at 2 o'clock). The big, big, BIG problem with this amp is that their is only one EQ for all the channels. But in all honnesty, all I do is create a solid Lead EQ and my clean still sound amazing.

FOr your second question, from Engl's official website:

"Compared to the Thunder REVERB, the DRIVE has an
additional Crunch volume control, to give the guitarist
access to all 3 channel volumes. A very punchy workhorse.
Celestion® Vintage 30 speaker on board as well. "


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## USMarine75 (Jul 29, 2011)

Did someone say "boosted mids"? I love my Engl Fireball 100... Found mine new for $1200. Find a good 2x12 closed back cab for $300. Bam. 

Or did I miss something? What's wrong with a 5150 or 6105 combo? They have great mids (EVH)... they get the scooped rep because everyone zeros the mid switch. Buy an ISP decimator to tighten it up... maybe a TS9/808 etc in front. Done. Under $1000 USD total. And aftermarket companies can retube/change choke and transformer to make these as good as any boutique metal amp I've ever heard...


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 29, 2011)

USMarine75 said:


> Did someone say "boosted mids"? I love my Engl Fireball 100... Found mine new for $1200. Find a good 2x12 closed back cab for $300. Bam.
> 
> Or did I miss something? What's wrong with a 5150 or 6105 combo? They have great mids (EVH)... they get the scooped rep because everyone zeros the mid switch. Buy an ISP decimator to tighten it up... maybe a TS9/808 etc in front. Done. Under $1000 USD total. And aftermarket companies can retube/change choke and transformer to make these as good as any boutique metal amp I've ever heard...



I've seen some 6505 combos. The 1x12 is £400 ($600ish I think) and the 2x12 is a whopping £1300 ($2200+). Apparently this is because the 1x12 is Korean and the 2x12 is American. I don't think I want the 2x12 - I mean, I'd love it but the missus would kill me! And for the money I'd save I could have another guitar, which is so much more exciting than buying an amp...

Here is the 1x12

Peavey 6505 Plus 112 Combo

Looks fairly good, sealed back for increased sound projection etc, and since it's a 1x12 it should not produce as much volume as the 2x12, meaning I could push the tubes to saturation with less decimating of the neighbours ears! It's cheap too, I could literally have it by Monday evening if I bought it tomorrow. So very tempting! I'm still hoping to exhaust my options before I go for the "default" 6505/5150, but maybe it's just the best amp for the job?

Keep the info coming guys, this is exactly the kind of stuff I need to hear!


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## Dionysian (Jul 29, 2011)

USMarine75 said:


> Did someone say "boosted mids"? I love my Engl Fireball 100... Found mine new for $1200. Find a good 2x12 closed back cab for $300. Bam.
> 
> Or did I miss something? What's wrong with a 5150 or 6105 combo? They have great mids (EVH)... they get the scooped rep because everyone zeros the mid switch. Buy an ISP decimator to tighten it up... maybe a TS9/808 etc in front. Done. Under $1000 USD total. And aftermarket companies can retube/change choke and transformer to make these as good as any boutique metal amp I've ever heard...



So much this .. if you want nice metal tones at low volumes from a combo and at a budget.

1) ISP Decimator or Boss NS-2

2) Maxon OD808 or TS9 or whatever is cheaper for you

3) Peavey 6505+ 60w 112 combo with a better speaker. I don't like V30's with my 5150 II head .. too much mids - at least when run with EMG's and a TS9 in front haha! From what I've read, a Celestion G12K-100 should do the trick for nice bedroom tones (mids are NOT nice at low volumes, you wan't something flat response) .. or if you're from the US, something Eminence. Swamp Thang maybe? Texas Heat? I don't know.


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## Vostre Roy (Jul 29, 2011)

I might add, about the mids of my head, I got to reduce it a lot, the amp is pretty mid oriented IMO and with a tubscreamer, it boost it even more. The Fireball would probably be a better option for Death Metal, but if you can try the Thunder 50 and push his volume up a bit, you could be surprised by the tone you'll get.


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## USMarine75 (Jul 29, 2011)

Eskil Rask said:


> So much this .. if you want nice metal tones at low volumes from a combo and at a budget.
> 
> 1) ISP Decimator or Boss NS-2
> 
> ...


 
^ I forgot... thank you... Sheffield paper speakers are made from kitty litter clumps. Worst on the market. I contacted Celestion, FJA Mods, Voodoo... all recommended the G12k-100s and Celestion said the best combo in their opinion is one G12k-100 and one Classic Lead. The Lead gives you more natural clarity and "singing" notes while the G12k gives you the punch. Thats what I have and I recommend 100%...


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## USMarine75 (Jul 29, 2011)

You could always wait for the new Dark Terror Orange amp... oooh.

View the Official Dark Terror Demo Video on OrangeAmplifiers-on-YouTube « Orange Amps





Or perhaps the Engl Gigmaster 30 combo? Ahhh.

COMBOS


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## Vostre Roy (Jul 29, 2011)

I'd love to try the Dark Terror, man this amp seems to be real kickass!
I've tried the little Thunderverb and was blown away, this one look brutal as fuck!


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 30, 2011)

I'll quite possibly be ordering a new amp this afternoon so it could be decision time for me!

The frontrunner so far is the 6505+ combo, yes it's small but I don't need a big amp at the moment. It's also the cheapest option, and it's closed back so it should be punchy and loud enough for my mostly bedroom playing or the occasional jam. As I said, perhaps it's industry standard for a reason? I like the comment above about how it feels "alive and gnarly" as I love amps with an organic quality and character to them. Im slightly worried about how cheap it is though, I don't need amazing studio quality tone but I don't want something that sounds like a load of shit either!

The other front-runner at the moment is the Marshall Triple Super Lead; 

Marshall TSL 601

I know a lot of people don't like Marshalls but I do, they have a good round tone and I like the character of the gain. This TSL seems to have a lot of cool features, but it's also twice the price of the 6505+ combo.

EDIT: I've just noticed the same website has a 2x12 TSL combo EX DEMO for less than the price of a new 1x12 TSL, seems like a hell of a lot of amp for the price!

Is there anything I've missed or forgotten to consider so far?


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 30, 2011)

Damn this place is slow when the Americans are in bed!

I'm a few hours away from pulling the trigger on a Marshall TSL 122 combo.

Here is a quick run down of the features on this amp

All valve powered. [4x Svetlana EL34 power valves]
3 independent channels for Clean, Crunch, and Lead
Mid Boost Switch for tonal options on the Clean channel plus Tone Shift on the Crunch and Lead channels
Unique Marshall Deep Switch on the Clean and Crunch/Lead channels adds extra low end resonance when selected
Separate Reverb for Clean and Crunch/Lead channels
Virtual Power Reduction [VPR] gives the extra saturation of a lower powered valve amp being driven hard
Power Amp Mute switch for silent recording
Separate FX Loops with front panel Mix controls and level selection for the Clean and Crunch/Lead channels
D.I. XLR Output with acclaimed Marshall Speaker Emulation
5-way foot controller for switching channels, Reverb, and FX Loop on/off

Sounds pretty good, and the price is right. Possible NAD thread on the horizon!


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## Curt (Jul 30, 2011)

Never played a TSL, but if it's anything like my bud's DSL. 

that thing can get some mean tones when boosted.


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## robotsatemygma (Jul 30, 2011)

I've owned the Engl Thunder and I fully recommend getting the combo. To me, this is one of the most articulate and tight amps I've ever played. I had my tone pretty saturated and it never left the Noon position.

I played mathcore with a lot of jazz and death metal inklings and always got compliments on my tone. A lot of people asked me if I tuned to B and were surprised to learn I play in E standard lol (when I played 6 strings). I used Tung Sol 5881's for power tubes after trying everything else under the sun. They really brought out the nature of the amp. Slap in some 12BH7s and it'll make it the most dark and sinister amp you've ever played. 

It sounded massive once I made the switch to 7 strings. It loves low tunings with either EMG's or passives like Seymour Duncans. 

Keep in mind you have a shared EQ and 3 channels (clean, crunch, and solo) I never really used the crunch channel but it was just as saturated as the solo channel. 

I'm very much contemplating on buying another one, I miss it that much!


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## fitterhappier (Jul 30, 2011)

I currently own an ENGL Thunder 50 combo (just drive, no reverb) and I've been very happy with it. Like the others have said, it's voiced more open so it doesn't have that ultra-compressed tone that other ENGL amps are known for, but I dig the sound. Very versatile and totally works for metal. I run a Decimator -> TS-9 -> Smart-Gate through the front and it's got gain for days. I rarely turn the gain past noon. I would characterize the sound as a pissed-off Marshall.

I actually owned a 6505 112 combo at the same time that I had the ENGL, and I ended up sending the Peavey back. The Peavey had a stupid amount of gain, but just didn't have that clear, organic tone that the ENGL had. The only thing I've noticed (and like a lot of others have noted in here) is that it doesn't have a lot of low-end response, but this is due to the fact that it's an open-back 1x12 combo. I am planning on running it out to an Orange PPC212 (closed-back) in the next few months. But so far, I've been very pleased with the amp. Plus - the build quality is second to none.


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## fitterhappier (Jul 30, 2011)

robotsatemygma said:


> It sounded massive once I made the switch to 7 strings. It loves low tunings with either EMG's or passives like Seymour Duncans.



This. All my guitars sound great through it, but I have a custom 6-string tuned to B with an Invader and it sounds insane thru the ENGL.


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