# Ibanez discontinuing bridges



## OmegaSlayer (Apr 25, 2014)

So Ibanez has started to discontinue the FX Edge III, the ZPS system and the Edge Zero if I stand correct.
I still haven't understood if this applies only for the US market or Worldwide...but in the end the point is that somewhere there's a problem.
I've read there's some kind of patent issue but that wasn't confirmed.

I really love the FX Edge III.
I personally would use it on any fixed bridge guitar I would have, so this decision bummed me a lot.

I always preferred the Edges to the Floyd Rose since I found them more comfortable and somehow I feel that the strings have lesser tension.

And, despite I had never tried a ZPS system I was really curious about it.

Is there anyone of you that has some idea of what's going on and what led to that decision, and if there's a chance that reworked bridges working in the same way will be available in the future?

Now I would like to avoid Floyd/Edge/Kahler fanboyism, the Floyd Rose is an amazing bridge and some Edges do have flaws and Kahler is a different beast.
So I hope we can please keep the discussion on the decision/forced necessity to discontinue a piece of hardware.
Thanks


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## sehnomatic (Apr 25, 2014)

Over engineered hardware. 

Ibanez recognized that prestige owners were just ignoring the zps and simply not caring about the features that just felt "tacked on". They save money for ridding of those features, and we win too - ibanez recognized how well the lo pro, and original edge performed, how simple they were, and how much they sold for on ebay. Now we're seeing them come back into production.


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## Alex Kenivel (Apr 25, 2014)

I thought the zps was a good idea, almost bought a guitar with one.. But whatever, I'm happy with any hardtail. If I want a bar I'd go with non locking, only because I know the ins and outs of them, use the hell outta em and know how to keep it in tune (for a while). Maybe we'll see a price drop since they're not spending the money in factories to make em


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## Andromalia (Apr 25, 2014)

I actually liked the ZPS when I had it on one of those korean prestige S and a japanese made one. I'm an occasional tremolo user and when I needed a guitar with a trem those performed well. I do think that some of those "tremolo wars" are as much nitpicking as most string gauges discussions.


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## groverj3 (Apr 26, 2014)

I hate the damned ZPS. Good riddance.


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 26, 2014)

I think the ZPS is unnecessary and would prefer if they'd just push the Backstop out there in its place.
I will miss the intonation tool of the Edge Zero, though. And the Edge-III FX too.


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## OmegaSlayer (Apr 26, 2014)

I still think that the more option we have the better, since we don't have same hands, same heads, same patience and same necessities.
Having a piece discontinued it's a loss anyway. like it or not.

It's good the Lo-Pro is back, I hope it will be adapted for 8 strings, 9 strings and fixed bridges.


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## Bassassasin (Apr 26, 2014)

The discontinuing is only in USA (and Canada, i think).
Here in the EU, you can buy the ZPS and the FX Edge Guitars.

I think it´s a patent problem, but Ibanez confirmed nothing (like they always do)


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## ZXIIIT (Apr 26, 2014)

I preferred the ZR tremolo over the Lo Pro, routed my RG560 for a ZR, was a great guitar.

Going to miss that tremolo.


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## OmegaSlayer (Apr 26, 2014)

Bassassasin said:


> The discontinuing is only in USA (and Canada, i think).
> Here in the EU, you can buy the ZPS and the FX Edge Guitars.
> 
> I think it´s a patent problem, but Ibanez confirmed nothing (like they always do)



If it's a patent problem they'll find a work around solution because they believe in the overall tech.
If they don't believe in the tech and think it's overengineered it's a bummer.

Not to mention that overengineering is subjective.
One of the reason I prefer Ibanez over other brands is because of the supposed overengineering, since I perceive it as attention for customers needs.

The ZPS is a great system for people who want to tune lower and get back to standard tuning a floating bridge in few minutes.
The fixed bridge with locking nuts is a total blast.

When I see these things I don't think that a random Japanese guitar engineer thought "Hey, let's make something over complicated! MWAHAHAHAHAH" I think that those researches (Research and Development costs A LOT) are made for me and other guitarists with necessities close to mine.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 26, 2014)

Rich from Ibanez Rules said the reason for it being discontinued due to a part in the ZPS being patented. Guess Ibanez didn't want to license the part. 

I'm glad the Edge 3 is gone, though. One of the main thing keeping me away from a lot of their budget stuff.


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## Bassassasin (Apr 26, 2014)

OmegaSlayer, i totally agree with you.
Normaly i hate Trems, but the ZR/ZPS from my S470 is the best Trem i ever play (it has so many details, that i miss on other Company trems and it feels so good on my Hand).
This time, i´m happy to live in Austria/Germany...the other times not, cause the USA Ibanez´s most time have more Models to choose from.

The Ibbytrems are really great about the ideas, not the 1million one of an (oldtimer with huge problems) FR Copy.
I love the finetune FX Bridges, so i build myself one out from Ibanez parts for my multiscale (Edge pro saddles)

I hope, Ibanez get the patent sh*t in right order


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## OmegaSlayer (Apr 26, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Rich from Ibanez Rules said the reason for it being discontinued due to a part in the ZPS being patented. Guess Ibanez didn't want to license the part.
> 
> I'm glad the Edge 3 is gone, though. One of the main thing keeping me away from a lot of their budget stuff.



Cool, thanks for the confirmation.
I guessed there was a problem with the Tremel-No patent, but didn't want to pull something from my ass and sell it as truth.

Edge 3 is not a good Floating bridge, still the Fixed version totally serves its purpose and more.


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## SkullCrusher (Apr 26, 2014)

I think Ibanez trems are some of the best in the biz.

Glad to see the lo pro coming back.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 26, 2014)

The Edge 3 FX is a godly bridge, and I wish Floyd Rose would release their own version. 

The floating version is not.


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## Nag (Apr 26, 2014)

I'm glad they're discontinuing the infamous turd that is the ZPS. It's one of the things I hate the most in the entire music instrument world.

Edge and LoPro are the only trems Ibanez needs, just my opinion.

As for the Edge III FX, never played one but I'm sure it rules. Never heard anyone complain about it. It probably doesn't have the stability issues of its floating cousin so I don't see what could be wrong with it.


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 26, 2014)

Nagash said:


> As for the Edge III FX, never played one but I'm sure it rules. Never heard anyone complain about it. It probably doesn't have the stability issues of its floating cousin so I don't see what could be wrong with it.



Exactly. It just locks and is wonderful from then on. Locking non-trem bridges with fine tuners should be more widespread.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 26, 2014)

Pikka Bird said:


> Exactly. It just locks and is wonderful from then on. Locking non-trem bridges with fine tuners should be more widespread.



 Closest thing I can think of is a Gibson TP-6 or a Schaller 456 with a locking nut, but it'll only be single locking.


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## Nag (Apr 26, 2014)

I wish Floyd Rose would try to design an equivalent to the Edge III FX. They have the Speedloader bridge but nobody wants to use that thing.


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## cardinal (Apr 26, 2014)

The ZPS is a clever idea, I think, but wasn't executed as well as I'd like. The bridge felt cheap. The trem block is so tiny. I would have thought it'd be a better idea to have routed a wider trem cavity than to have shrank the block like that. And the thumb-wheel adjustment seemed gimmicky and unnecessary. 

But it'd also be nice to see the Backstop come back. I'm real interested in those. It'd be cool to see how a Backstop-like device would work when pushing in the other side of the block.


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## Leuchty (Apr 26, 2014)

The ZPS can be taken out... Easily.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 26, 2014)

The ZPS system is being discontinued in all markets moving forward as there were a couple patent issues. In the end Ibanez didn't want to pay for licensing or for the patent as a whole, and thus the bridges with this system are going to be discontinued. So the Edge Zero, Edge Zero II, and the ZR series will be dwindling (at least in their current format) going forward. Ibanez still has a massive inventory of these bridges, so they'll still be seen on current models as well as spot models for at least the next few years. This mirrors the the Edge Pro phaseout, which took about a year and a half. 

The Edge III FX is not going anywhere. The 8-string variant is being scaled down (for now), and the 6-string model is still in production. The TAM100 and MTM models will still feature these bridges for the foreseeable future. Ibanez took notice that most 8-strings on the market aren't using locking bridges and that a lot of users (and dealers/distributors) weren't keen on them. Probably doesn't hurt that with fewer parts the current 8-string bridges are cheaper to produce and warranty work is easier as well. 

The reason to switch back to the Original Edge and Lo-Pro Edge is more to do with timing. They are no longer restricted by patent and licensing fees, which means they can have them made by Gotoh for much cheaper and without having to pay secondary costs. The units lack the ZPS so there's no need to re-engineer the units to work with current patent issues (see above). The fact that these units are very well revered is a huge bonus, and Ibanez knows it. 

At the end of the day, this patent issue with the ZPS (effecting nearly all current trem designs they have) caught them off guard, so they went with what they already had, the Lo-Pro. The top routes for the bridges are nearly identical (thanks to the Edge Zero designs having elongated fine tuner assemblies) so they lucked out on it working with minimal effort. 

Had the patents which affected the Original Edge and Lo-Pro Edge still been around we would probably have seen a return of the Edge Pro, which didn't use the FR patents of the other two units. 

What I'm excited for is the next couple years where Ibanez will hopefully revisit the design of these older units (Original and Lo-Pro) and see what tweaks can be made, the designs are 35 and 30 years old respectively and could use a modern refresh. I still think the built in intonation adjustment of the Zero series units was an awesome idea, it just suffered from inferior build on most models, having not been Gotoh built or engineered. The arm collar assembly could use some attention as well.


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## Nag (Apr 26, 2014)

^ it's always good to have a trem encyclopedia around 

I wanna say "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I can understand they want to redesign trems that are several decades old, but if they work perfectly fine they should just leave them how they are...


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 26, 2014)

Nagash said:


> ^ it's always good to have a trem encyclopedia around
> 
> I wanna say "if it ain't broke don't fix it". I can understand they want to redesign trems that are several decades old, but if they work perfectly fine they should just leave them how they are...


 
The word "hopefully" in there is key, as I haven't heard any rumblings of Ibanez doing anything to either the Original Edge or Lo-Pro Edge. 

Ibanez has been on the quest of making floating, double locking units more user friendly, but as they've found out, the more you add to the old FR design, the more components you need and the more complicated the unit gets. The problem there is that all those little time saving tools (balancing systems, intonation adjustment tools, new saddle designs, etc.) make the unit more complex for the new user. 

I think it would be a real loss if Ibanez just rested on thier laurels instead of trying to push innovation a little further. I'm not saying to nix the Original and Lo-Pro all together, but to at least expand on them on some lines, much how the Saber was the test bed for the ZR and its iterations.


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## yingmin (Apr 26, 2014)

I really liked the ZR series trems, so I'm bummed to see them get phased out. Does this mean that they won't be using the adjustment knobs in the back any more?


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## Nag (Apr 26, 2014)

I wish they could just make as many of their trems as they can to fit in the same cavities. just so people can swap around if the guitar they want doesn't come with their favourite trem.


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 26, 2014)

I would love to see the intonation screw and offset saddle lockdown screws make their way to a potential future revision of the Lo Pro. I'd stick the intonation screw in the rear cavity, though.

Is it just me or does the difference between the Edge/Lo Pro and the newer Edge Zero and Edge Zero II bridges change a LOT of the general aesthetic of the whole body end of the guitar? The lines of the former generation makes them seem rugged and sturdy while those of the latter give a sleek and polished look. I don't even know what I prefer, TBH.


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## OWHall (Apr 26, 2014)

Andromalia said:


> I actually liked the ZPS when I had it on one of those korean prestige S and a japanese made one.



Is there such thing as a Korean Prestige? I thought all Prestige models were Japanese? I know my S prestige is Jap built


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 26, 2014)

Some Sabers were Korean-made.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 26, 2014)

OWHall said:


> Is there such thing as a Korean Prestige? I thought all Prestige models were Japanese? I know my S prestige is Jap built


 
In the early 00's S, SZ, and SA Prestige models were made in South Korea by Cortek. It's been a nuber of years since they've done that though, almost a decade now. 

The last MIK Prestige was the S2170. 

Also of mention, the RG Anniversary Prestige models had thier bodies made in Indonnesia, with only the necks being MIJ. Hence the super low pricetags they shipped with.


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## OWHall (Apr 26, 2014)

wow, well i never knew that  thanks for the info guys


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 26, 2014)

^Is the Cort facilities still doing any Ibanez guitars? I was thinking about if the move may have been prompted by the media coverage of the atrocious conditions for the people working there, but I don't remember the chronology of these events.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 26, 2014)

Pikka Bird said:


> ^Is the Cort facilities still doing any Ibanez guitars? I was thinking about if the move may have been prompted by the media coverage of the atrocious conditions for the people working there, but I don't remember the chronology of these events.



Yes, but not Cort Korea. Cort's Indonesian facility still makes Ibanez (and many others') guitars. 

In fact it was Cort moving a chunk of their manufacturing to Indonesia that prompted a lot of those complaints from Cort Korea employees.


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## jtm45 (Apr 29, 2014)

Yeah, Ibanez really doesn't like having to pay any cash out to patent holders for using their licensed tech. They used that reasoning when they phased out the Lo-Pro and Edge originally too but apparently even after redesigning their trems i think they still had to pay Floyd Rose for using their patented 'idea'.
That's the reason the Backstop was so short-lived too. They're actually also patented by Floyd Rose even though i can't ever remember Floyd making anything remotely similar to the Backstop!
I've got one here that i've used in three or four different RG's fitted with Lo-Pro's or original Edge trems and it's always worked really well for me when you set it up well.

I even think that ESP has discontinued their 'Arming Adjuster' single spring backstop type device now as well. There's the German Rockinger and Goldo single spring ones that are still available though. I've had one of the Goldo ones here for years but never got around to trying it as i had the original Backstop to use.


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## groverj3 (Apr 29, 2014)

To expand upon my hatred for the ZPS, I will never understand why Ibanez made a system to limit the functionality of their trems. I like that stupid "fluttering effect" . I get the tuning stability stuff, but a properly set-up floating trem works just fine. I've never had issues with OFRs, FR-1000s, Floyd Specials, Jackson Licensed Trems, TRS Trems, Edges, Edge Pros, even floating Wilkinsons when it comes to returning to pitch.

The original Edge is a great unit, and equal in all aspects aside from longevity (pitting) compared to the OFR. I'm happy we're going to be seeing more of them!


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## cardinal (Apr 29, 2014)

A properly set up Floyd doesn't need any gimmicks, that's for sure. But they're hard to set up, and they will always have some quirks. Like, double stop bends going out of tune. Something like the BackStop or ZPS can actually keep the strings in tune during a double stop bend and let you raise the pitch if you pick up the bar hard enough, but at the sacrifice of flutter and some of the feel. It's nice to have available options. I hope that Ibanez continues to innovate with their hardware. 

But apparently they need to spend some time filing patents to get in front of the game, here.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 29, 2014)

groverj3 said:


> To expand upon my hatred for the ZPS, I will never understand why Ibanez made a system to limit the functionality of their trems. I like that stupid "fluttering effect" . I get the tuning stability stuff, but a properly set-up floating trem works just fine. I've never had issues with OFRs, FR-1000s, Floyd Specials, Jackson Licensed Trems, TRS Trems, Edges, Edge Pros, even floating Wilkinsons when it comes to returning to pitch.
> 
> The original Edge is a great unit, and equal in all aspects aside from longevity (pitting) compared to the OFR. I'm happy we're going to be seeing more of them!


 
I never understood why the ZPS was so polarizing. It was/is incredibly easy to deactivate/remove, and then the trem functions 100% the same as any similar unit without the ZPS. One of the reasons they incorporated the thumbwheel was to make it easier going from ZPS-on to ZPS-off. 

As Cardinal above mentions, the point of the ZPS wasn't just "trem training wheels", but to add actual function. 

As for longevity, pitting isn't really going to do anything bad to the unit, and compared to recent OFRs, unless it's a REALLY bad cosmo batch, both units will show wear rather quickly.


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## OmegaSlayer (Apr 30, 2014)

I'm totally up for innovation, even when I don't find it immediately useful.
Nothing can be perfect for anyone and nothing mechanical can be 100% performing in its first iteration.
There's always space for improvement, especially if your willing to listen to customers' feedback.
As I said I just hope that Ibanez (and other manufacturers) don't stop researching because market is headed towards a direction.

I never used a ZPS, so I'm not aware of its flaws, but the idea of turning a floating bridge into a basically hardtail bridge just turning a wheel and not having to remove the back plate is a good idea in my book.

Anyway it's a choice.
The more choices, the better.


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## groverj3 (Apr 30, 2014)

I'm definitely not opposed to innovation, because I think that trems could use some upgrading after all these years. I'm actually a big fan of the design of the ZR trem. No knife edges seems like a much better idea to me.

I just didn't see a reason for the ZPS to exist in the first place. That's just me though.


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## OmegaSlayer (Apr 30, 2014)

groverj3 said:


> I'm definitely not opposed to innovation, because I think that trems could use some upgrading after all these years. I'm actually a big fan of the design of the ZR trem. No knife edges seems like a much better idea to me.
> 
> I just didn't see a reason for the ZPS to exist in the first place. That's just me though.



ZR with no knife edges seems a nice idea to me too 
I also think it's the way to go for 8 strings tremolo bridges


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## charlessalvacion (Apr 30, 2014)

I love the Lo Pro7! But I am interested in owning an Ibanez 7 with a ZPS someday.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 30, 2014)

OmegaSlayer said:


> I never used a ZPS, so I'm not aware of its flaws, but the idea of turning a floating bridge into a basically hardtail bridge just turning a wheel and not having to remove the back plate is a good idea in my book.



That's a common misconception of the ZPS, it does not, was never designed to, and never marketed as a way of blocking the trem, turning into a defacto fixed bridge. Also, the thumbwheel assembly was not entirely a part of the ZPS either. There was a variant of the ZPS offered on the SV series' called the ZPS-FX, it was capable of a dive-only mode. 

The ZPS was designed to add more tension to the trem set on non-balancing, but just bringing the bridge back to a set zero-point. The idea being that things such as small changes in tension (ex: double stop bends, low tension string breakage) would not throw the whole system out of tune or alignment. 

Look into the Hipshot Tremsetter, it's pretty much the same concept, albeit not exactly the most elegant or user friendly. Still works though. 



groverj3 said:


> I'm definitely not opposed to innovation, because I think that trems could use some upgrading after all these years. I'm actually a big fan of the design of the ZR trem. No knife edges seems like a much better idea to me.
> 
> I just didn't see a reason for the ZPS to exist in the first place. That's just me though.



I think the idea of knife edges being brittle has come about only with the introduction of so many low end bridges on so many low end guitars. I have 25+ year old guitars with OFRs and Edge series bridges that function perfectly and show very little, if any, wear on the knife edges or posts (fun fact: posts tend to wear before knife edges on older guitars). 

If quality materials are used, knife edges will typically last the life of the instrument (which is never entire infinite), or pretty darn close. Most guitars will need a refret (barring stainless steel frets, which are still not nearly as common) before the trem needs to be replaced if it's a quality unit. 

Given the cult following of the Ibanez Backstop, ESP Arming Adjuster, and Hipshot Tremsetter, I can see why Ibanez thought to look into a newer system when they did. To us seasoned trem vets, it's pretty pointless to have something that potentially limits the crazy stuff we do, but I can see why folks want something more user friendly and accessible.


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## OmegaSlayer (Apr 30, 2014)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's a common misconception of the ZPS, it does not, was never designed to, and never marketed as a way of blocking the trem, turning into a defacto fixed bridge. Also, the thumbwheel assembly was not entirely a part of the ZPS either. There was a variant of the ZPS offered on the SV series' called the ZPS-FX, it was capable of a dive-only mode.
> 
> Given the cult following of the Ibanez Backstop, ESP Arming Adjuster, and Hipshot Tremsetter, I can see why Ibanez thought to look into a newer system when they did. To us seasoned trem vets, it's pretty pointless to have something that potentially limits the crazy stuff we do, but I can see why folks want something more user friendly and accessible.



Oh, I see and now I understood how it work and how it limited raising the trem.
Thanks.
So the wheel gave just more clearance space to the part below the trem when the bar was raised (sorry for the very ignorant wording)


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## Pikka Bird (Apr 30, 2014)

^ The wheel simply adjusts the tension on the springs that connect to the trem block, just like the spring claw on a regular tremolo. The only difference in principle is that this wheel is accessible through the recess on the backplate so you don't have to whip out your tool kit.


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## rikomaru (May 1, 2014)

I don't know if it's because the only lopro I have is on a 7, but with all the hype I didn't find it particularly impressive. The edge pro on my jc performs beautifully so I see no reason for the return of the older bridges to garner so much fanfare. I'm apparently far from being the sentimental type though. I've yet to really try a zps, but it sounded like a great idea to me.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (May 1, 2014)

The Lo-Pro is back and that's all that matters to me 

I never even use my trems, but my Lo-Pro 7's are my favorite bridges I've owned simply because of how comfortable they are.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 1, 2014)

rikomaru said:


> I don't know if it's because the only lopro I have is on a 7, but with all the hype I didn't find it particularly impressive. The edge pro on my jc performs beautifully so I see no reason for the return of the older bridges to garner so much fanfare. I'm apparently far from being the sentimental type though. I've yet to really try a zps, but it sounded like a great idea to me.



The Edge Pro was a great unit, and it's a shame it never really got the recognition it deserved. 

It originally came about when Ibanez needed to [probably more like 'wanted to'] dodge the FR patents and needed to make a bridge that locked a different way. The locking aspect is what those FR patents mostly covered. 

After there were a lot of complaints regarding the saddles on the Edge Pro and the association with the faulty Edge Pro II used on lower end guitars, not to mention Ibanez wanting to push their ever popular ZPS and ZR brought an end to the Edge Pro.


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## rikomaru (May 1, 2014)

I was actually counting on the lack of edge pro popularity to get an ubercheap 81/8427 but all jc prices rocketed when they started distributing to the states. T_T

Anyway, what is it about the lopro and original edge that gets everyone so excited? Low profile= comfort..ok, sure. The newer incarnations of the edge aren't exactly bulky though. Lol. If it's nostalgia, then fine. I just don't want to start thinking of my favorite brand like an older one where people shun improvements because "older is better". Are they substantially more reliable? 

Not flaming or raging, just legitimately curious.


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## sehnomatic (May 1, 2014)

rikomaru said:


> I was actually counting on the lack of edge pro popularity to get an ubercheap 81/8427 but all jc prices rocketed when they started distributing to the states. T_T
> 
> Anyway, what is it about the lopro and original edge that gets everyone so excited? Low profile= comfort..ok, sure. The newer incarnations of the edge aren't exactly bulky though. Lol. If it's nostalgia, then fine. I just don't want to start thinking of my favorite brand like an older one where people shun improvements because "older is better". Are they substantially more reliable?
> 
> Not flaming or raging, just legitimately curious.



The lo pro 7's fame came to be because of the RG762x guitars. Arguably, even at it's release price point, it slaughtered everyone everything else offered, even guitars two to three times more expensive.

Also, people compare it to it's "successor", the lo trs, which people absolutely hate. So looking at the lo pro in that light makes the bridge a god.

A lot of nostalgia due to the legacy of the 7620, and the trem surely helped gain this reputation.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 1, 2014)

rikomaru said:


> I was actually counting on the lack of edge pro popularity to get an ubercheap 81/8427 but all jc prices rocketed when they started distributing to the states. T_T
> 
> Anyway, what is it about the lopro and original edge that gets everyone so excited? Low profile= comfort..ok, sure. The newer incarnations of the edge aren't exactly bulky though. Lol. If it's nostalgia, then fine. I just don't want to start thinking of my favorite brand like an older one where people shun improvements because "older is better". Are they substantially more reliable?
> 
> Not flaming or raging, just legitimately curious.



Aside from the nostalgia as already mentioned, it's just a super simple bridge. It's just a big hunk of metal that lasts forever. 

No fancy spring systems, ball-holding saddles, or newfangled ball bearings. 

As for reliability, when you take away moving parts, you take away failure points. To that end, since the Original Edge and Lo-Pro Edge are so basic, they are very reliable.


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## tedtan (May 2, 2014)

rikomaru said:


> I was actually counting on the lack of edge pro popularity to get an ubercheap 81/8427 but all jc prices rocketed when they started distributing to the states. T_T
> 
> Anyway, what is it about the lopro and original edge that gets everyone so excited? Low profile= comfort..ok, sure. The newer incarnations of the edge aren't exactly bulky though. Lol. If it's nostalgia, then fine. I just don't want to start thinking of my favorite brand like an older one where people shun improvements because "older is better". Are they substantially more reliable?
> 
> Not flaming or raging, just legitimately curious.




What improvements have been ignored?


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## MaxOfMetal (May 2, 2014)

tedtan said:


> What improvements have been ignored?


 
Both built in intonation adjustment and offset saddle screws are great improvements to the base trem design. It cuts down on adjustment time and how many tools you need. The same can be said about saddles that accept the ball-end and don't require a wire/string cutter. 

Yes, you don't need that stuff, I have intonation keys for various trems, ground down allen keys to get under strings, and a small army of wire cutters to take care of the ball, but it would be nice to not need that stuff if a string breaks at an inopportune time. 

I can see why these older bridges are so attractive to Ibanez in thier current state. They don't need to pay for licensing, they're well known and revered, Gotoh has been a supplier for decades, artists love them, etc. Folks have no problem touting Original Floyd Rose units which are as spartan as the early Edge designs, so Ibanez doesn't really NEED to do much to keep folks happy. I just hope they do.


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## tedtan (May 2, 2014)

Cool. All of my guitars have the Edge or Lo Pro at this point except for one with a Khaler, so I'm not familiar with the updates. I appreciate the lesson.

I wouldn't mind seeing those types of updates incorporated into the older designs, but, as you alluded to earlier, not at the expense of functionality and reliability (in engineering terms, simplicity is a good thing; complexity brings additional problems).


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## AlejoV (May 2, 2014)

Anybody knows why the RG2228's bridge is discontinued?


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## MaxOfMetal (May 2, 2014)

AlejoV said:


> Anybody knows why the RG2228's bridge is discontinued?



I addressed that above:



> The Edge III FX is not going anywhere. The 8-string variant is being scaled down (for now), and the 6-string model is still in production. The TAM100 and MTM models will still feature these bridges for the foreseeable future. Ibanez took notice that most 8-strings on the market aren't using locking bridges and that a lot of users (and dealers/distributors) weren't keen on them. Probably doesn't hurt that with fewer parts the current 8-string bridges are cheaper to produce and warranty work is easier as well.



To put it simply, they wanted to streamline production and remove a bridge that a lot of folks really weren't clamoring for. 

I'm sure the fiasco of the first gen RGAs didn't help.


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## OmegaSlayer (May 11, 2014)

Ok.
So I've never been a great trem user.
But lately I decided to try to fill the gap and started doing some Vai and Satriani tricks.
The guitar I have on "rotation" at the moment is the Ibanez XPT (the Xiphos, the 6 string model 24 frets) which has the infamous Edge III.

It has been 10 days of extreme trem wankery, done by someone that is not hyper skillfull.
The guitar had been set up by a luthier only once (almost 3 years ago after I purchased it second hand) and kept set by me for the remaining time.

10 days of silly wankery and the guitar didn't lose a bit of the tuning.
Nothing, zero.
So I was really curious about this Edge III disaster, and I checked around.
"Internet" says that the Edge III is a disaster, but the more thoughtful and seemigly accurate reviews say that setting the intonation is tricky, awkward, the metal the Edge III is made of is a bit soft, but the stability in the hands of a guy that knows tremolos is not an issue.

I must say that the Edge III abused with trem wankery holds tuning much much better than the Lo-TRS on my Ibanez RBM10 (the Voyager) and my old JS100 without any wankery applied.

Now, the only issue I have been having with Edge III is that sometimes my notes gets silenced when I try stuff like Satriani - Surfing wta minute 2:50, but I still have to figure out if it's me because I do it wrong, if the springs are too hard or if it's the Edge III itself.

So, at the moment I'm not getting the Edge III hate.


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## sehnomatic (May 11, 2014)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Ok.
> So I've never been a great trem user.
> But lately I decided to try to fill the gap and started doing some Vai and Satriani tricks.
> The guitar I have on "rotation" at the moment is the Ibanez XPT (the Xiphos, the 6 string model 24 frets) which has the infamous Edge III.
> ...



The ibanez rg standard line of guitars, particularly the rg350dx, during the edge iii era, were selling like crazy, especially to novice shred-heads. The vast majority of these buyers were new-ish guitarists, this bridge being their first double locking floater. 

The rep came from their inability to set it up.

Give a new guitarist a Floyd rose titanium and he/she'll also complain. Floyd roses are always a new, flabbergastingly complex piece of hardware when people first approach it.


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## OmegaSlayer (May 11, 2014)

sehnomatic said:


> The ibanez rg standard line of guitars, particularly the rg350dx, during the edge iii era, were selling like crazy, especially to novice shread-heads. *The vast majority of these buyers were new-ish guitarists, this bridge being their first double locking floater.
> 
> The rep came from their inability to set it up.*
> 
> Give a new guitarist a Floyd rose titanium and he/she'll also complain. Floyd roses are always a new, flabbergastingly, complex piece of hardware when people first approach it.



That's one of the opinion I read around.
It's sad to get bad reputation for such a silly reason.
I still have to try the wankery on the Jem with the Lo-pro which is clearly a better bridge, but I have to restring it and udjust the neck relief and I'm short on time.
So, again, I don't know if I'm just noobish with the bar or it's the bridge. 

By the way...guitar techs have started to be a non option around here.
Yesterday a close friend of mine got his Ibby RG2550 back after having a tech putting Deactivators in it and the tech made the setup too.
Well, the fine tuners of the 1st string was all the way down.
I felt it really unprofessional.


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