# How much tollerance for lazy bandmembers and how to deal with them?



## tuttermuts (Oct 24, 2014)

Hey guys,

I wasn't sure where to post this one, but I figured "live" involves other bandmembers so there.

I've been in several band situations in diffirent positions, I've filled in as a rhytm guitarist, I've done leads, ranging from metal to jazz ... And with about 10+ years or so under my belt I think I can say I have some band expierience. But heres something new for me. 

I used to be known as a perfectionist. When I had projects in earlier years I would fire people over the smallest things, didn't know how to play the song by 4th rehearsal? You're out!!!

But I've learned that it takes more patience and longsuffering to get a cohesive band going. Not everybody is going to be as motivated and focussed as the other guy. So what I'm trying to learn this time around is what should I tolerate in terms of slack and what can't be tolerated? What calls for somebody to be "put straight" and what can I just let go.

Heres the current situation that drove me to this post. A while aggo we decided to isolate a room from one of the bandmembers so we'd have a space to rehearse, he doesn't want to rent, doesn't want to buy a second drumkit ...hey I understand, so lets make a space to play at his house. 

We arrive at his house on said day, he wasn't around, instead he was in another country trying out for another band (yeah he likes to play in many bands...as long as it doesn't eat into our band I don't really care, which ofcrouse isn't the case anymore). We got in through his parents but still...

And it's a lot of small things like that lately that make me wonder...the other guys drive across the country at the drop of a hat to get things going...he just can't be bothered sometimes. And it's really getting on my nerves.

So how do you deal with this? Put him in his place until he gets it, or let him go and start looking for someone else? Also feel free to share your stories or expieriences if they could be of help for insights.


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## Fretless (Oct 24, 2014)

I'd say right now is the perfect time. Why wait for him to ruin the band?


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## karjim (Oct 24, 2014)

Depends of what the goal is ? Becoming a serious band, touring, contracts, labels and co ?
Get the best team you can, zero tolerance, it's almost like sport. You must have the best team to achieve something.
If it's a friendship band, few shows, an EP, and maybe we'll see later you can be more relax even if you're the fuel and the brain of this band. And you resumed perfectly this kind of statement in your post. 
Personal story: I dumped one of my best friend because during the last year he ruined the ambition, the motivation, the coolness of our band.
He was angry, and don't believe anymore in this journey. We are still friends of course, but during the first weeks it was hard: insults & co. 
Now when we talk he says I was right, he was away from us and wanted to do something else. Clean up his life if you want
25 -> 30 years old : Hard time for bands, members begin to have a family, a job (that they hate ), kids, etc.....Heavy Metal is still in our souls, but we don't have the time to dream and act like the old good College days


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## tuttermuts (Oct 24, 2014)

Well I am pretty serious about this band, I work a full time job and most of my free time (which isn't much) goes into the band. All of my money goes into the band. Heck I even studied Jazz for 6 years ...Everything goes into the band. The only thing that's keeping me back is, if I kick him out we gotta find a new drummer which around my parts is really difficult, let alone one that can pull off and keep up with what we're writing. Theres thoughts of backing tracks floating around my head, but ofcourse that is plan B. I'd rather have a real guy sitting there. Things are already looking like we gotta part ways, but I'm giving it a few more weeks until I drop the hammer so to speak. Thanks for the input so far though guys!


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## ghost_of_karelia (Oct 24, 2014)

Backing tracks aren't necessarily a bad thing. They still get your band out playing shows, meaning you're more likely to find a drummer in the crowd that digs your stuff and wants to take that vacant space at the back of the stage.


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## thrashmetal85 (Oct 25, 2014)

Tolerance only goes so far. If it's bringing you down, move on. I was tolerant for 4 years too long in my last band.


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## JoeyBTL (Oct 26, 2014)

Back tracking drums has always been something I haven't been into. Bass, guitar and some vocals aren't so bad but drums it's just a different feel. IMO that is. But anyway, I think you should basically cut the cancer out before it spreads so to speak. If you're serious about this and the dudes already like this with it, how's he gonna be in two years?


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## Maverick187 (Oct 31, 2014)

Depends on what you are wanting this band to do. If its just something casual, you cant stress it too much. But if you are wanting it to be a serious band, then id say have a word to him. Need it to be no pressure and let him put forward his opinions on the group without fear of reprisal.

From what you say, you take these things very seriously. Im like you in a few ways. You do need to understand that not many people share the same devotion. If you dont expect that you are fine, as long as all the members are hitting the kind of goals they should. IE: coming to prac, coming to shows, putting their financial share towards the band, knowing the tracks, having adequate gear for what you're doing etc etc

Ive been in very similiar situations. If they are not pulling their weight just because they are lazy, then they need to go, because if they arent doing their share they are just holding everyone else back. Sometimes people have things going on in their lives outside the band which cause this, which you need to be understanding of (situation depending) but if its just because of laziness or general lack of direction then they are better off being shown the door


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## Dusty Chalk (Oct 31, 2014)

I agree with, "it depends". 

To be fair, it sounds like somewhere along the line you changed from, "I don't care...as long as..." to "I'm committed and you all should be to". Which is fine, you just need to admit it to yourself, and come "out" about it.

If you otherwise get along with him, then I'd keep him around as backup. I have a friend who is the leader of a band (it's "his band", and that's not due to perfectionism or Napoleon syndrome or any of those things, he's just such a fantastic and prolific songwriter and charismatic frontman that he just needs a vehicle for his songs, and the band is it). It took him years to put the band together -- he went through drummers like Spinal Tap, went through a couple bassists, first thing he really settled on was the second guitarist and now he just has a rad band.

My point was with the bassists -- I actually really liked the one that he had when I first met him, and both he and I are still friends with the bassist, it just didn't work out for other reasons (competing gigs, actually, the bassist was similar to your friend, he liked to be busy busy busy playing in multiple bands, contantly playing out live and networking). 

So the criteria for bandmembers is two-fold: musicianship, and personal compatibility. Personal compatibility is actually more important, although there needs to be a minimum threshold for musicianship. The best have both, fight to keep those.


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## yingmin (Oct 31, 2014)

tuttermuts said:


> Heres the current situation that drove me to this post. A while aggo we decided to isolate a room from one of the bandmembers so we'd have a space to rehearse, he doesn't want to rent, doesn't want to buy a second drumkit ...hey I understand, so lets make a space to play at his house.
> 
> We arrive at his house on said day, he wasn't around, instead he was in another country trying out for another band (yeah he likes to play in many bands...as long as it doesn't eat into our band I don't really care, which ofcrouse isn't the case anymore). We got in through his parents but still...


That sounds less like laziness than simple disrespect, which I find much less tolerable than mere laziness.


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## thrashmetal85 (Oct 31, 2014)

I can understand that some people desire to play a broad range of music and choose to play in multiple bands. Know what order of priority your group sits in that and are you happy with that arrangement and what it means?


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## tuttermuts (Nov 2, 2014)

Hey guys, give you a little update, we're starting to move onto backing tracks. The bassplayer was kind enough to pick up my gear, so yeah we're moving out and onward really soon. Todays rehearsal was difficult as a friend of mine just passed on. There was no energy in the room...but we're still determined despite the setback. Thanks everyone for the input so far. Silence before the storm that is a great band in the making? I like to think so!


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## Dusty Chalk (Nov 2, 2014)

Condolences, that's rough.


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## Albionic (Nov 3, 2014)

I think you will be better off in thew long run I've wasted so much time on people who are only half interested and/or suck because they would have been difficult to replace.


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## SevenString (Nov 3, 2014)

I haven't tried to maintain a band since 2005. I just don't have the patience anymore for sub-par players, flakes, or other types of problem children. 

Now I'm a regularly gigging solo performer (singer/guitarist) using my own self-created backing material. I have occasionally hired some pros to back me for a show at a larger venue, but for the most part, I just go solo and draw from my own eclectic library and repertoire of hundreds and hundreds of songs.

Musically, I am the happiest I have ever been.


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## JureGolobic (Dec 22, 2014)

i've been playing for 17 years and i totally know what u feel right now. finding THE BAND is one of the hardest things to do. the problem with guys like yours is that he might 'infect' whole band. and suddenly the guys that were really into the band start to feel like you and they start to look around for some other band. once you can play it's really easy to get into 10 bands and 'try' to make it. but it usually wont take you there. the best band are formed of people that really pull into same direction.


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## GoldDragon (Dec 24, 2014)

tuttermuts said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I wasn't sure where to post this one, but I figured "live" involves other bandmembers so there.
> 
> ...



I think you like being a big fish in a small pond. Why don't you find a larger pond with bigger fish?


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## Ataraxia2320 (Dec 29, 2014)

If you are serious about the band and want to do music full time then you need to have a sit down with your band and get on the same page. You have to make your bandmates understand that actions speak louder than words, and if they aren't prepared to step up, then they need step aside for somebody who will. 

It's all about communicating your goals and ambitions IMO. This way noone sees you as the asshole who kicks people out at the drop of the hat.


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## Gram negative (Dec 31, 2014)

SevenString said:


> I haven't tried to maintain a band since 2005. I just don't have the patience anymore for sub-par players, flakes, or other types of problem children.
> 
> Now I'm a regularly gigging solo performer (singer/guitarist) using my own self-created backing material. I have occasionally hired some pros to back me for a show at a larger venue, but for the most part, I just go solo and draw from my own eclectic library and repertoire of hundreds and hundreds of songs.
> 
> Musically, I am the happiest I have ever been.



Dude, I am SO with you.

I got so tired of people like the OP was talking about. Flakes, disinterested, cant play, and the worst: DRUG ADDICTS.

Me: Dude you played the parts fine yesterday, what happened.

Drummer: I play better when Im high.

Me: No you dont. NO ONE plays better when they are high.

Drummer: What about Keith Richards?

Me: Are you sh*tting me? 

My band, IAMSOUND has had 15 members in the past 9 years. Ive given up. Everything on reverbnation or bandcamp has been played, and recorded by me. Thats the real kicker of the whole situation. I literally record everything, and then get a band to play it live. They have the song ALREADY DONE for them, just learn the parts and put your own spin on it. I cant even find people to do that. We rarely get to the point of writing new material TOGETHER as a whole.

There are people that are born to be in this industry, and people who want the lifestyle but arent willing to put in the work. You have to be able to tell the difference between the two. Unfortunately if you live in a small town (like Savannah Ga) you end going through everyone that plays, and you get left out in the cold.

When you get to the point of being an originaal bnd, and youre getting paid for it, it is officially a job. That means you dont show up to the venue and proceed to get wasted. You show up, and be a PRO.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Dec 31, 2014)

I'm getting older and finally in a band where everyone pulls their own weight and doesn't need a ride to practice every time.

What i've learned: If someone is constantly not holding up their end of the deal, shit-can them ASAP.


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