# State of the art of amp sims in 2021?



## ogon (Jan 13, 2021)

Wondering what are regarded as the best amp sims at this point in time? There are so many it's hard to sort through and it's also hard to know if you're finding everything relevant with just a websearch. I'm sure there's disagreement on the absolute best but I would guess there are at least a handful that are generally the most well liked. I guess it also might break down by style - best cleans, best crunch, best leads, best high gain / djent / brutal.

Anyway, all opinions welcome.


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## DC23 (Jan 13, 2021)

NeuralDSP (mostly metal), Helix Native (whatever you can do with a Helix), Scuffham (older but still solid for not-so-metal), ML Sound Labs (rock / metal). Those are ones I would check out if I were looking right now.


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## broangiel (Jan 13, 2021)

I’d add Mercuriall to the list too. Reaxis is great.


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## Bentaycanada (Jan 13, 2021)

The Audio Assault Sigma and RVXX are among the best available, and they're super cheap compared to the others.


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## sakeido (Jan 13, 2021)

Nalex are my favorites, and are fantastic. Also, they're free.

They don't model extra controls, tone stacks, etc. but their tube emulation is more accurate than most other VSTs. Dynamics feel better, crunch tones are better, and hey they're $0 so why not


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 13, 2021)

I'm sort of an amp sim hoarder. From my experience the expensive sims aren't really worth the money. The cheap and free ones are your best bet. Beyond that, the sim itself doesn't really matter, the IR is the real make or break to your overall sound. You can make any good high gain sim sound like pretty much any other high gain amp with enough eq and mixing.

Different sims have different feels and options and whatnot. Some are less hassle, some you have to work a bit to make sit well, some are bass heavy, some are already boosted so they don't need one. Those little differences make each one unique and better suited for one thing or another. To me that's the reason to have a bunch of different ones. You have a sim for any situation and it's more about utility than getting different tones.

I've posted it before but I made Google drive folders of all my boosts, amp sims, and IRs. All of the amp sims are the free ones you'll find looking around on the internet. I didn't add any of my paid ones (SSO anti-piracy and all that). If anyone's wanting to try a bunch of different amp sims, hopefully this makes it easier for you:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1aZf5V_UFAnR0_EXxRNe_DEfxKlVPx-0s?usp=sharing


I couldn't add them to the folder but I highly recommend the Tourmafrost (Omega Obsidian VST) and the Slowrunner (Soldano SLO). They're as little as 12 bucks each and they are definitely worth the money


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## ogon (Jan 13, 2021)

Really appreciate all the contributions so far. Thanks everyone.

Looks like a lot of the sims mentioned so far are geared toward higher gain sounds. Are there any plugins that stick out for cleans and crunchy tones?


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## Spinedriver (Jan 13, 2021)

ogon said:


> Really appreciate all the contributions so far. Thanks everyone.
> 
> Looks like a lot of the sims mentioned so far are geared toward higher gain sounds. Are there any plugins that stick out for cleans and crunchy tones?



The people that use vsts over on The Gear Page forum seem to really like the Scuffham S gear for rock/blues like tones.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 13, 2021)

ogon said:


> Really appreciate all the contributions so far. Thanks everyone.
> 
> Looks like a lot of the sims mentioned so far are geared toward higher gain sounds. Are there any plugins that stick out for cleans and crunchy tones?



I really like the Brainworx Diezel amps and the BE-100. Crunchy stuff and cleans sound great with them. I wanted them for high gain situations but honestly they're versatile.

I did a goth song with those amps and it's the lowest gain settings I think I've ever used. Clean to crunch and nothing high gain at all

https://soundcloud.com/helveteinc/spukschloss/s-MA5VKTVMOgn


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## sakeido (Jan 13, 2021)

On the topic of brainworx and crunchy amps - their Engl Retro Tube model is awesome for that. Engl RT 765.

Used that on this low-fi synthwave concept album I did for pretty much everything. It's a really cool and unique sounding amp, makes me wanna try the real deal. Like a retro 5150, almost.

I like the brainworx VSTs a lot. The guy who codes them, Igor Nembrini, has his own site where he releases his VSTs but I find his pricing pretty high and the quality isn't quite as good. But at least he doesn't load it up with 500 garbage IRs like the brainworx models have - I never use those.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 13, 2021)

sakeido said:


> On the topic of brainworx and crunchy amps - their Engl Retro Tube model is awesome for that. Engl RT 765.
> 
> Used that on this low-fi synthwave concept album I did for pretty much everything. It's a really cool and unique sounding amp, makes me wanna try the real deal. Like a retro 5150, almost.
> 
> I like the brainworx VSTs a lot. The guy who codes them, Igor Nembrini, has his own site where he releases his VSTs but I find his pricing pretty high and the quality isn't quite as good. But at least he doesn't load it up with 500 garbage IRs like the brainworx models have - I never use those.



So you gon tease me by mentioning synthwave and not post it? GIMMEE.


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## Emperoff (Jan 13, 2021)

Whichever you choose, just don't buy Scuffham's S-Gear.

I did, and it's been abandoned since 2012. Any question about it in their forum gets you flamed by their zealots that populate _*every single gear forum on the internet *_(_except metal ones-oriented ones, obviously). _Which is also why is praised on TGP.

Mercuriall plugins sound very good, but they suffer the same problem. I'm still waiting for them to update the ENGL E530 plugin. That's why stopped buying them. I won't spend a dime on companies that keep on releasing products and abandoning older ones. The lack of unified framework/suite to exchange cabs/FX, etc is also VERY annoying and a workflow killer. I don't want to save my presets in each plugin and/or stack them to combine their features. That's just bullshit.

I've tried pretty much every ampsim under the sun, and the only ones that kept me away from my TriAxis were Neural DSP stuff. They're just super easy to get good tones with. The downside is that their business model plain sucks as much as Mercuriall, which is why I haven't bought any either. If I had to choose one I'd get Nolly as it's the best bang for the buck of all their so-called "suites".

Line6 Helix Native is still the best value of them all, as it's continuously updated and has all the amps and FX you'd ever need.


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## viifox (Jan 13, 2021)

I've been combining Nolly with Omega, and they compliment eachother extemely well!

Been using Plini for the clean tones. Excellent stuff.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 13, 2021)

I tried the Neural nameless, Cali, and gramophone and hated all of them. Nothing about those amps justified the price tag to me and I wouldn't have wanted them even if they were free. Not to mention that whole setup you have to do just for a demo was lame. Everyone else likes their stuff so I dunno. I've never heard anything impressive from them


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## sakeido (Jan 13, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> So you gon tease me by mentioning synthwave and not post it? GIMMEE.



I'd have spammed the link a lot more but it's an uneven effort. I'm such a part timer in this project they don't even have me on the Spotify profile yet, but here ye be


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## TimSE (Jan 13, 2021)

I have 4 of the Neural DSP Archetype plugins and they are amazing. That being said, I had to get 4 of them to get everything I wanted and go out of my way to find a system that lets me play all 4 at once.


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## Emperoff (Jan 13, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I tried the Neural nameless, Cali, and gramophone and hated all of them. Nothing about those amps justified the price tag to me and I wouldn't have wanted them even if they were free. Not to mention that whole setup you have to do just for a demo was lame. Everyone else likes their stuff so I dunno. I've never heard anything impressive from them



Yeah, you basically tried their Fortin army cashgrab plugins. Single amp, no FX. Let's charge 100€ for the fanboys. Terrible value. I don't even know why they're called "suite".

Now, the Archetypes are just 20€ more and have three amps and FX (35€ for the Nolly as it has four amps). Waaaay better value on those.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 14, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Yeah, you basically tried their Fortin army cashgrab plugins. Single amp, no FX. Let's charge 100€ for the fanboys. Terrible value. I don't even know why they're called "suite".
> 
> Now, the Archetypes are just 20€ more and have three amps and FX (35€ for the Nolly as it has four amps). Waaaay better value on those.


 I do hate Fortin so that's probably why. I'll have to check out the others


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## eclecto-acoustic (Jan 14, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Whichever you choose, just don't buy Scuffham's S-Gear.
> 
> I did, and it's been abandoned since 2012. Any question about it in their forum gets you flamed by their zealots that populate _*every single gear forum on the internet *_(_except metal ones-oriented ones, obviously). _Which is also why is praised on TGP.



This isn't quite right. You'll see in my explanation why I'm not an apologist, but the record ought to be set straight.

The last major update was to v2.9 a little less than a year ago, and while there weren't any shiny new toys to play with, the update was to lay the groundwork for further development and ostensibly v3.0 and beyond. v2.97 for Windows users was released 4 months ago, and 2.98 for Mac users running Big Sur, with a footnote from November 2020 stating that they were actively working on M1 native compatibility. As of NAMM 2020, S-Gear 2.9 also comes bundled with the new(er) RME Babyface Pro FS.

The core functionality and availability of amps/effects hasn't changed much over time, and the developer is not very vocal about what (if anything) is coming down the pipe. Those things combined can definitely make you feel like nothing is happening. From my point of view as a guy who REALLY digs S-Gear from a sonic and workflow standpoint, my only concern is in longevity. I'd love it if Mike would communicate more proactively and tell his users what is being worked on, even though I dig the product exactly as it is. The amp and effect models are rock solid, super flexible, and not fussy to use.

One should look elsewhere if they want any of the following:

Modern metal sounds
Bass amp options
Variety of effects
Vocal dev team

But abandoned it certainly is not.

Setting aside S-Gear, I'm having quite the love affair with Neural DSP plugs. Archetype: Abasi in particular is one of those plugins that continually surprises me with how flexible and inspiring it is. That "Blend" control for a faux piezo sound is amazingly useful.


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## laxu (Jan 14, 2021)

The ones I use are Helix Native and ML Sound Labs ML5 (Mesa Mark V). ML5 alone would cover most tones I need and comes with great IRs.

I run those into ML Sound Lab MIKKO cab sim plugin using the Essentials and VX30 packs. That is then run into the Fractal FAS-FX reverb for room simulation if I am playing with headphones. From there I run into Sonarworks Reference 4 to flatten the frequency response of my headphones or apply room correction if using my Genelecs. The Sonarworks plugin is not part of the recording chain.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jan 14, 2021)

Amp sims are at a point now where you can’t blame the amp sim anymore. There’s so many great choices and it doesn’t take long to get a good responsive tone.

After getting STL Tonehub I’m done. In seconds I’ve tones better than anything I got with my axe-fx or kemper. 

There is a lot of over saturation now though. I didn’t hear anything about the new JST Jeff Loomis Toneforge on here and I’m not seeing many people talk about the new Neural getting released this week.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 14, 2021)

sakeido said:


> I'd have spammed the link a lot more but it's an uneven effort. I'm such a part timer in this project they don't even have me on the Spotify profile yet, but here ye be



This is the good shit. Thank you


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## olejason (Jan 14, 2021)

I like the STL stuff a lot. Agreed with the other post that amp sims are good enough you can't really blame them for a crappy mix nowadays.


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## Emperoff (Jan 14, 2021)

Man, you've got two messages. Did you come here from the Scuffham forum to continue your crusade? 
_


eclecto-acoustic said:



This isn't quite right. You'll see in my explanation why I'm not an apologist, but the record ought to be set straight.

The last major update was to v2.9 a little less than a year ago, and while there weren't any shiny new toys to play with, the update was to lay the groundwork for further development and ostensibly v3.0 and beyond. v2.97 for Windows users was released 4 months ago, and 2.98 for Mac users running Big Sur, with a footnote from November 2020 stating that they were actively working on M1 native compatibility. As of NAMM 2020, S-Gear 2.9 also comes bundled with the new(er) RME Babyface Pro FS".

Click to expand...

_Sorry but that's bullshit. You're conveniently ommiting how long 2.9 took, aren't you? Prior version was 2.71 at _*2017*._ All the updates you mention are mainly bug fixes. If you want to go all literal about this be my guest, but my point was that besides a few IRs based on a Vox AC30 _*no real content*_ was added since their 57' amplifier, which was added in _*freaking 2014*_. 2.9 was a fucking joke. After a two year wait, the updates were:

Support for HiDPI Displays
Scalable GUI
Improved Preset management system
Redwirez 'Remastered' Cabinet options

So yeah, if you want to support an ampsim with no new content since 2014, feel free to do so


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 14, 2021)

I have a decent collection myself and for high gain I use like the Brainworx Diezel stuff and their Savage sim. Their IRs are ass so I just use NadIR for all of it. Their Rockerverb sim is insane too but the Recto sucks ass. I've had a lot more success getting boosted Mesa sounds from the Orange. ML Sound Lab has impressed me a lot too, if their stuff was Windows AAX compatible I'd be using the ML5 a lot since it sounds the closest to a Mark V than anything else out there. Roots is good too, but the 5150 and EVH are by far the 2 best. The other 2 aren't as good but still nice to have. No cleans though, but the Friedman sim crunches the best out of a lot of sims there.

There's also the Mercuriall Euphoria which sounds amazing and has a lot of effects and processing built in. The IRs suck but what else is new. If I need a Marshall sound I'd easily pay for it. You do have to know what a Bogner Ecstasy does though, since the switching is really complicated but it does whatever sound you could ever want, minus really scooped. Without mids it sounds like ass. 

Neural never did it for me especially the Fortin stuff. I played the Cali for all of 10 minutes since it's supposed to be so versatile and I couldn't get it to saturate at all. No low end and the gain sounded like shit. STL stuff was ok but I wasn't too much of a fan. Nalex was great but it was obvious they were all made by the same guy, they sound like the amps, with his touch which I couldn't place exactly but there was something about it. His Herbert is the next best thing to the Brainworx, since his doesn't have the mid control or the 3 channels and it doesn't sound quite as good. His Uberschall was great though, just not AAX. By far the best sim of the amp out there. I'd love to find a good AAX Uber since I love the sound of the amp but I'm striking out. The Solidus Randy sounds great too but it needs tweaking to get there. A ton of usable tones in that one. 

Bias sounds like shit and so does Amplitube. Never tried JST.

Does anyone do a Revv or Fryette sim? Those are 2 sounds I'd love to have based on a lot of demos I've found online.


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## Obed1224 (Jan 14, 2021)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Does anyone do a Revv or Fryette sim? Those are 2 sounds I'd love to have based on a lot of demos I've found online.


Audio Assault has an amp sim that seems to be based off the Revv G20. I got it for like 6 bucks and enjoy it quite a bit.


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## Obed1224 (Jan 14, 2021)

I have really enjoyed Neural DSP's Archetypes, especially Plini and Abasi. Also got the Fortin NTS so I feel like I covered everything from super clean tones to high gain chugging. For some reason, Nolly didn't do a whole lot for me, contrary to most opinions on it. Might have to give it another chance.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 14, 2021)

Obed1224 said:


> Audio Assault has an amp sim that seems to be based off the Revv G20. I got it for like 6 bucks and enjoy it quite a bit.


I just took a look at all their stuff. Is the full suite worth it?


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## Obed1224 (Jan 14, 2021)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I just took a look at all their stuff. Is the full suite worth it?


No clue my dude, sorry. I was originally looking for a free/cheap bass amp sim and ran into the revv one. Ive been wanting a revv for the longest time so that was that.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 14, 2021)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I have a decent collection myself and for high gain I use like the Brainworx Diezel stuff and their Savage sim. Their IRs are ass so I just use NadIR for all of it. Their Rockerverb sim is insane too but the Recto sucks ass. I've had a lot more success getting boosted Mesa sounds from the Orange. ML Sound Lab has impressed me a lot too, if their stuff was Windows AAX compatible I'd be using the ML5 a lot since it sounds the closest to a Mark V than anything else out there. Roots is good too, but the 5150 and EVH are by far the 2 best. The other 2 aren't as good but still nice to have. No cleans though, but the Friedman sim crunches the best out of a lot of sims there.
> 
> There's also the Mercuriall Euphoria which sounds amazing and has a lot of effects and processing built in. The IRs suck but what else is new. If I need a Marshall sound I'd easily pay for it. You do have to know what a Bogner Ecstasy does though, since the switching is really complicated but it does whatever sound you could ever want, minus really scooped. Without mids it sounds like ass.
> 
> ...


 
I really want a Fayette Pittsburgh UL sim and Peavey XXX and JSX sims. It blows my mind that no one has done it yet


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 14, 2021)

Obed1224 said:


> No clue my dude, sorry. I was originally looking for a free/cheap bass amp sim and ran into the revv one. Ive been wanting a revv for the longest time so that was that.


I'm gonna give it a shot tonight, probably run through all the demos instead of doing jazz or my personal projects lol


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 14, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I really want a Fayette Pittsburgh UL sim and Peavey XXX and JSX sims. It blows my mind that no one has done it yet



Pittbull would be best but I'd love to see a Sig X, crazy underrated amp


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## Emperoff (Jan 14, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I really want a Fayette Pittsburgh UL sim and Peavey XXX and JSX sims. It blows my mind that no one has done it yet



I want a 5150 sim. I heard no one makes one of these.


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## Obed1224 (Jan 14, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I want a 5150 sim. I heard no one makes one of these.


This.


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## eclecto-acoustic (Jan 14, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Man, you've got two messages. Did you come here from the Scuffham forum to continue your crusade?
> 
> Sorry but that's bullshit. You're conveniently ommiting how long 2.9 took, aren't you? Prior version was 2.71 at _*2017*._ All the updates you mention are mainly bug fixes. If you want to go all literal about this be my guest, but my point was that besides a few IRs based on a Vox AC30 _*no real content*_ was added since their 57' amplifier, which was added in _*freaking 2014*_. 2.9 was a fucking joke. After a two year wait, the updates were:
> 
> ...



You know, if you'd bothered to read through my short post history, you'd see exactly where I came from. I even use the same username over there.

As for the lack of new content, I explicitly brought it up in my above post. The only thing I was trying to do was correct the notion that S-Gear had been abandoned since 2012.

Yes, development is slow and communication is sparse. Again, I said that already. But "nothing new" doesn't mean that what's there is bad, just like "abandoned since 2012" is not at all representative of S-Gear as a whole.

It's fine to have a beef with a product or a company. But don't make up stuff about it. I enjoy the product for what it is, and even though I wish it had some more options for metal and bass, I can get my vintage on all day long, and it's a pleasant experience.


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## Emperoff (Jan 14, 2021)

eclecto-acoustic said:


> You know, if you'd bothered to read through my short post history, you'd see exactly where I came from. I even use the same username over there.
> 
> As for the lack of new content, I explicitly brought it up in my above post. The only thing I was trying to do was correct the notion that S-Gear had been abandoned since 2012.
> 
> ...



You know, I didn't need to read your short post story (or research your username as you suggest) to know exactly where you came from. Just one post was enough.


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## eclecto-acoustic (Jan 14, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> You know, I didn't need to read your short post story (or research your username as you suggest) to know exactly where you came from. Just one post was enough.



Cute. 

Hint: I've never had a membership on the Scuffham forum, and likely never will. I think it's obvious who was on the real crusade here.

Enjoy your Neural plugins. I know I do.


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## MrWulf (Jan 14, 2021)

TSE X50 if you want 5150


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## Emperoff (Jan 14, 2021)

eclecto-acoustic said:


> Cute.
> 
> Hint: I've never had a membership on the Scuffham forum, and likely never will. I think it's obvious who was on the real crusade here.
> 
> Enjoy your Neural plugins. I know I do.



TGP then. Funny thing is that your stellar appearance only served to confirm everything I said in that post.

And yes, I do enjoy my Neural DSP plugins. S-Gear has been gathering digital dust for a couple of years now.

Cheers


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## Spinedriver (Jan 14, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I really want a Fayette Pittsburgh UL sim and Peavey XXX and JSX sims. It blows my mind that no one has done it yet



I was thinking the same thing. Oddly enough, the Mooer Preamp Live pedal _actually does_ have sims for a VHT Pitbull and Peavey JSX. Other than that though, I don't know of any vsts specifically that have the JSX but the new Amplitube does seem have a VHT/Fryette amp of some kind.


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## youngthrasher9 (Jan 14, 2021)

Neural DSP is excellent, Overloud TH-U is awesome, as is Mercuriall. I don’t personally prefer ML sound labs strictly because they sound more like an album tone and less like a raw guitar tone, and they are generally more compressed feeling. To each their own. For free, I absolutely LOVE Tonelib G-FX. The Bogner Ecstasy model specifically sounds rad with an on board boost.


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## Elric (Jan 14, 2021)

Top Shelf: 
Neural, Mercuriall, THU
Runner Up:
Helix Native, STL
Solid but unremarkable:
Amplitude 5, SGear
Also Ran:
Everything else


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 15, 2021)

So I tried that STL ToneHub thing and I thought it was the dumbest thing ever. I get it's essentially a preset bank but for me if I can't have the amp sim and tweak how I want it, I don't want to bother. I don't want someone handing me settings I either have to love or leave. Even the knobs to change things didn't really do what I wanted. Not to mention they have a million packs they want you to pay for to get certain things.

Fuck all that. Give me a good amp sim and I'll do the rest. I'm not spending money on some pack from a bunch of youtube guitarists and modern metal dudes thinking it's gonna be "the sound". When you consider the IR is the real star of the show and not the amp anyways it just makes the Tonehub thing pointless to me. I'm good without it


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## MrWulf (Jan 15, 2021)

STL Tonehub is basically Kemper ITB. It is great to dial up a preset and be done with it. Otherwise its tweakability is limited. It is going to geared more toward audio engineers who wants Kemper capability without the cost. Even so, some people has said that it is quite good and even better than Kemper in term of feels and adjustments. It is not my cup of tea since i do like to have total control over ny signal chain but i'd not lie if some of the presets and profiles are very tempting, like Mesa Mark JP-C2+


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 15, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> STL Tonehub is basically Kemper ITB. It is great to dial up a preset and be done with it. Otherwise its tweakability is limited. It is going to geared more toward audio engineers who wants Kemper capability without the cost. Even so, some people has said that it is quite good and even better than Kemper in term of feels and adjustments. It is not my cup of tea since i do like to have total control over ny signal chain but i'd not lie if some of the presets and profiles are very tempting, like Mesa Mark JP-C2+



That's the thing. Everything I get is pretty much geared towards home studio use. I write and record so I need stuff that facilitates ease of use. I get the point of the Tonehub but I don't like something I can't make deep adjustments to for mixing and whatnot. Not to mention it's not all that difficult to just use a regular amp sim. Cut some lows and highs, adjust the mids, get the bass guitar right and that's pretty much it. For my workflow the Tonehub doesn't really fit and I don't like the idea of having to pay a bunch for different sounds out of the same sim. I'd rather spend 12 bucks and get something fully functional instead of spending 10 times more just to be able to unlock some of the sim and not all of it


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## EmaDaCuz (Jan 15, 2021)

Like many other have said, the sound is in the IR. Most of the modern amp sims can get you more than decent results; it is all about user interface, workflow, and -in some cases- playabilty/how it feels.

I love Helix Native, as it is the perfect mix of the above characteristics. I use Bogren IR, and I am good to go.
I have never been a fan of NeuralDSP stuff, the amps sound great but there is something "weird" with them that makes my playing not as comfortable. Mercuriall have the best sound, but for some reason I feel like they introduce some extra latency and therefore the amp doesn't respond as expected. 
Audio Assault amps are amazing, but they need some tweaking. Best bang for the money, definitely.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 15, 2021)

so I ran through the Audio Assault suite and it was pretty good, the Pitbull, Archon, and Generator models all did what they do pretty well but it was kind of bland with the simplified switching and I could get all the sounds with my other amps, did have a really great set of IRs though, the metal magic 4x12 is amazing


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## Metropolis (Jan 15, 2021)

EmaDaCuz said:


> Like many other have said, the sound is in the IR. Most of the modern amp sims can get you more than decent results; it is all about user interface, workflow, and -in some cases- playabilty/how it feels.
> 
> I love Helix Native, as it is the perfect mix of the above characteristics. I use Bogren IR, and I am good to go.
> I have never been a fan of NeuralDSP stuff, the amps sound great but there is something "weird" with them that makes my playing not as comfortable. Mercuriall have the best sound, but for some reason I feel like they introduce some extra latency and therefore the amp doesn't respond as expected.
> Audio Assault amps are amazing, but they need some tweaking. Best bang for the money, definitely.



Another big thing after IR's for me are how amp controls react, and how power section feels or saturates. Does it behave in similar way how it would with a real amp. Those are things that Neural DSP and Mercuriall for example have got right with their amp sims.

As far as boosts go, I try to listen how much it cuts low frequencies and general eq curve with mids they emphasize.

Also different IR's match well with some amps, and with others not so. Which mainly comes from brightness or darkness of an amp. I prefer to have brighter amp with darker IR and have little bit of post eq'ing afterwards along with at least low cut.


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## MrWulf (Jan 15, 2021)

Funny this topic is coming up because Neural DSP Archetype: Gojira just released. 

This is the first NeuralDSP that I will probably not very interested in. Mainly because I'm not a fan of Gojira (mostly because they never interested me) and also, Joe Duplantier uses EVH 5150iii mostly, so basically, a suite of 5150iii. That's a hard pass for me.


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## Emperoff (Jan 15, 2021)

EmaDaCuz said:


> Mercuriall have the best sound, but for some reason I feel like they introduce some extra latency and therefore the amp doesn't respond as expected.


I noticed that as well. I thought I was imagining things. They do sound good, but their TriAxis emulation falls apart as soon as you engage the Dynamic Voice (it sounds nothing like the real thing). The AMT SS-11A sim also sounds like a wet fart, which is not the case with the real thing either.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 15, 2021)

I suppose I need to check out Audio Assault. I got the Grind Machine 2 and it's horrible. It's so useless that it turned me off of all their stuff. People keep claiming that they make good shit but after what I experienced I'm sure not spending money on their stuff


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## MrWulf (Jan 15, 2021)

Try their Sigma. It is a sim of the Omega Ampworks Obsidian. It is miles ahead of the old shit that was GM2


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## sakeido (Jan 15, 2021)

youngthrasher9 said:


> Overloud TH-U is awesome.



I've only used the profiling side of TH-U. The algorithm or whatever works great, amps sound pretty natural. Maybe it tends to the bright side but you can make it sit in a mix. The profiles fall apart the moment you touch the knobs, though.

I will say, whoever does the tone packs isn't very good at dialing in metal tones. I've bought a couple different packs now and haven't liked any of the tones. Nothing great for metal - but you could do dad rock for days.

They need to partner with guys who specialize in different types of music, cuz I get a distinct impression its just a few guys doing all the profiles and they are out of their wheelhouse most of the time. At least they're cheap when they're on sale.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 15, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> Try their Sigma. It is a sim of the Omega Ampworks Obsidian. It is miles ahead of the old shit that was GM2


If it ever comes up for free I will. Otherwise I'll pass.


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## profwoot (Jan 15, 2021)

I own: (in order of purchase)

Bias FX 2 Elite: Probably 100 different amps that all seem to lack much personality. Some nice bluesy/crunch tones, but I'd say avoid, especially for higher gain stuff where everything is really fizzy. I don't really use it at all anymore.

STL Andy James: Worth it for the "arrival lead tone" preset by itself, if you're into it. For rhythm stuff I've mostly moved on though. They recently revamped the cab section in a nice way. The tuner UI isn't my favorite.

NDSP Cali: Love it. For a single amp I find it very versatile for cleans, crunch, and high gain. A bit fiddley with all the different switches but therein lies the versatility.

NDSP Cory Wong: Hasn't entirely replaced Cali for cleans, but provides alternatives I also really enjoy, and the effects are great (I sometimes use the post-effects section with other amps). The Dumble is king for blues/crunchy stuff (the other two are also probably great but come on).

NDSP Nameless: does only one thing but does it extremely well.

I've also tried:

NDSP Plini: I mostly enjoyed it, but found it very boomy at high gain. Could have been something going on with my chain at the time, I guess.

NDSP Nolly: Good at everything, but didn't really grab me for whatever reason.

NDSP Abasi: Loved the clean amp, but the others didn't do much for me.

STL Will Putney: Really enjoyed it. The Uberschall, TC100, and VH4 are all excellent high gain flavors. Not sure why I never bought it. Now that STL added a second free trial of everything I'd be interested to see how this VH4 stacks up to the Brainworx one.

STL Howard Benson: Seemed cool but I was looking for a pretty specific quacky strat tone at the time that I wasn't able to get with it. Can't say much about it otherwise.

Free stuff:

STL Emissary: Great for high gain/djenty tones, but I prefer the paid stuff.

Nalex: Tons of amps, all of which seem... fine? Wasn't feeling it.

I should mention that I don't own any real amps so my opinions are based only on how they sound to my ear rather than fidelity to the modeled gear.

Edit: If I were just starting out I'd look pretty hard at STL's Amphub. Tonehub doesn't appeal for the reasons itemized by others in this thread but Amphub could be really cool.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 15, 2021)

profwoot said:


> NDSP Plini: I mostly enjoyed it, but found it very boomy at high gain. Could have been something going on with my chain at the time.



Plini sounds very fat overall, the trick is using the graphic EQ to remove some low mids. It will sound clearer, but fucking massive compared to the rest of NDSP plugins. It also has the best lead tones for me.

For tracking rythms I prefer Nolly, though.


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## Obed1224 (Jan 15, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Plini sounds very fat overall, the trick is using the graphic EQ to remove some low mids. It will sound clearer, but fucking massive compared to the rest of NDSP plugins. It also has the best lead tones for me.
> 
> For tracking rythms I prefer Nolly, though.


That new Gojira plugin from NDSP might give it a run for its money for rhythm guitar it sounds huge!


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 15, 2021)

Obed1224 said:


> That new Gojira plugin from NDSP might give it a run for its money for rhythm guitar it sounds huge!



No Neural DSP plugin will ever give anything a run for its money


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## Themistocles (Jan 15, 2021)

deleted, wrong place


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## MrWulf (Jan 15, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> If it ever comes up for free I will. Otherwise I'll pass.



I mean they throw 7 bucks sale every now and then. Free is a bit much


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 15, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> I mean they throw 7 bucks sale every now and then. Free is a bit much


After having the grind machine, 7 dollars is 7x too much for a company that's already left a bad taste in my mouth. I'd try a free demo or something but I wouldn't pay a dollar for it, let alone 7


----------



## Veldar (Jan 16, 2021)

Hope this isn't taking this off topic too much (if it does I'll make a different thread).

What are the sampling rates for these modelers? are they all 44.1/48 or are they getting closer to audio rate these days?


----------



## Metropolis (Jan 16, 2021)

Veldar said:


> Hope this isn't taking this off topic too much (if it does I'll make a different thread).
> 
> What are the sampling rates for these modelers? are they all 44.1/48 or are they getting closer to audio rate these days?



What Neural says:
https://support.neuraldsp.com/help/sample-rate-buffer-size

For example Mercuriall has more room to adjust actual sample rate inside a plugin, and some others too. Some plugins don't have this option, and by default they should be around 44.1.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 16, 2021)

Veldar said:


> Hope this isn't taking this off topic too much (if it does I'll make a different thread).
> 
> What are the sampling rates for these modelers? are they all 44.1/48 or are they getting closer to audio rate these days?



As explained, higher salple rate would take unnecessary CPU power that would either be taken away from other areas far more important (actual algorythms) or need higher requirements, which would mean less sales


----------



## Flappydoodle (Jan 16, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I tried the Neural nameless, Cali, and gramophone and hated all of them. Nothing about those amps justified the price tag to me and I wouldn't have wanted them even if they were free. Not to mention that whole setup you have to do just for a demo was lame. Everyone else likes their stuff so I dunno. I've never heard anything impressive from them



The setup stuff is standard. Most plugins are using iLok these days. Thankfully you don't need the physical dongle stuff any more.

I can see Nameless and Granophyre being a matter of taste. But Cali sounds amazing though, and it's super versatile. What did you hate?



Emperoff said:


> Yeah, you basically tried their Fortin army cashgrab plugins. Single amp, no FX. Let's charge 100€ for the fanboys. Terrible value. I don't even know why they're called "suite".
> 
> Now, the Archetypes are just 20€ more and have three amps and FX (35€ for the Nolly as it has four amps). Waaaay better value on those.



And all of those are super expensive boutique amps. For value, if you're actually recreating the recorded sound in a way which is indistinguishable from the real thing, I think $100 or whatever is a bargain.

Shit, you get a perfect recreation of the Fortin 33 pedal, which by itself costs way more than the plugin. (That said, I think the pedal sounds like shit and ruins tone, but some people still pay a ton of money for it)


----------



## Metropolis (Jan 16, 2021)

Flappydoodle said:


> The setup stuff is standard. Most plugins are using iLok these days. Thankfully you don't need the physical dongle stuff any more.
> 
> I can see Nameless and Granophyre being a matter of taste. But Cali sounds amazing though, and it's super versatile. What did you hate?
> 
> ...



bEcauSe iT's A foRTiN!

Seriously, Cali and Nameless have that stringy presence in top end, which is not for everyone. Or it's low end thumpy sound they have.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 16, 2021)

Flappydoodle said:


> The setup stuff is standard. Most plugins are using iLok these days. Thankfully you don't need the physical dongle stuff any more.
> 
> I can see Nameless and Granophyre being a matter of taste. But Cali sounds amazing though, and it's super versatile. What did you hate?
> 
> ...



100 dollars is a bargain? On what plannet when there are free amps that sound better? The 33 is pretty much a useless pedal, I paid 12 bucks for an Omega Amps sim that sounds much better than the 100 dollar Granoyphyre they are trying to pass.

The Nameless took all of 3 minutes to realize I hated it. The Cali was more of the same. Thumpy Fortinish take on the modern tone which is just grating on my ears.

There's no way in hell I'd pay 100 dollars for those. I'm honestly not sure I'd even want them for free. As for the setup, I have a shitload of sims. I download them and it's done. Far less work than the iLok crap


----------



## Masoo2 (Jan 16, 2021)

I've used a ton over the years

Absolute favorites:

*Line 6 Helix Native*
*Overloud TH-U and TH-3*
Line 6 POD Farm 2.5 (even in 2021 it still sounds great, especially when paired with a good IR)
Toontrack EZMix 2 with various add-ons
Kazrog Thermionik (5153, BE-100, etc)
Other good ones:

Cubase VST Amp Rack (Meshuggah tones)
Mercuriall stuff

LePou LeCto (one of the best free amp sims ever made, pair it with free TSE 808 and the s-preshigh impulse and you've got 99% as good of a plugin tone as you can get)
TSE X50 (if you want a 5150 sound and nothing else, Brian Hood has a great video on it)
Decent but I personally wouldn't buy as I didn't jive with them as much as others:

NeuralDSP Nolly/Plini/Gojira
Scuffham S-Gear
ML Sound Lab stuff (try out the free ones though)
Amplitube (Jakub Zytecki is a big fan of this and this tones are top tier)
Ones I really don't like and would recommend against:

NeuralDSP Fortin and Omega stuff (sounds horrible, I seriously don't know how they get away with charging that much for them)
Positive Grid anything (feels and sounds horrible + they're a scummy company, JamUp was leagues ahead of BIAS)
STL Tonehub (trust me I wanted to love it due to Will Putney and Brian Hood presets but I just didn't like it one bit)
Ones I need to try:

Brainworx/Plugin Alliance stuff
STL Amphub
Really though, the best thing to do is just watch videos and try demos. Even many of the free ones like the aforementioned LePou LeCto and ML Sound Lab Stevie T/Roots are worth trying.

Impulses make a difference though, after years of trying tons of free and paid ones I consistently settle on the free s-preshigh from Catharsis and Julep IR from the Telos Mini Free IR pack. Never liked any paid impulses and I've tried a ton from Ownhammer, ML Sound Lab, etc. Some of these plugins have actual good cab sims where as others don't.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some plugins but that covers the basics. 99% of the time I'm rocking Helix Native or TH-U/TH-3.

Honestly though, I've had an easier time getting a great tone with an Axe FX or Kemper on the few occasions that I've had to try one than I ever had with a plugin. One day I'll buy an Axe FX III or Kemper with some good profiles (ie Lance Prenc, Will Putney) because it was that big of a difference compared to plugins imo.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 16, 2021)

The IRs are the key. You get a shitload of them and you can make damn near any sim work


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 16, 2021)

I recently discovered the Purple Reign sim. It's a 10+ year old sim that clearly shows its age BUT because of that I think it'd be great for some doom type stuff. 

The problem though is it's a mono only amp. It won't get much use from me because of that and it's the big reason I'd never buy the ML Soundlab stuff. It makes no damn sense for them to charge what they charge and the shit doesn't even have a stereo/mono option


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## Flappydoodle (Jan 16, 2021)

Metropolis said:


> bEcauSe iT's A foRTiN!
> 
> Seriously, Cali and Nameless have that stringy presence in top end, which is not for everyone. Or it's low end thumpy sound they have.



Yeah, I agree that sound is not for everybody. I said exactly that in my post.

Cali is really versatile. Can do nice cleans, blues breakup tones, Gary Moore-type leads, and of course the brutality. Nameless much less so, and it isn't really to my taste.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> 100 dollars is a bargain? On what plannet when there are free amps that sound better? The 33 is pretty much a useless pedal, I paid 12 bucks for an Omega Amps sim that sounds much better than the 100 dollar Granoyphyre they are trying to pass.
> 
> The Nameless took all of 3 minutes to realize I hated it. The Cali was more of the same. Thumpy Fortinish take on the modern tone which is just grating on my ears.
> 
> There's no way in hell I'd pay 100 dollars for those. I'm honestly not sure I'd even want them for free. As for the setup, I have a shitload of sims. I download them and it's done. Far less work than the iLok crap



"Better" is a matter of opinion, but you are stating it as if it's fact. You listed Helix Native as your number one, but when I demo'd it, it sounded like shit to me. 

Also, sounds like you didn't actually give either of them a shot if you only spent 3 minutes playing with it. The way those amps works is pretty complex, balancing the two gain knobs etc.

Then you say it sounds shit... because it sounds like a Fortin. But it's a model of a Fortin amp. It's supposed to sound like one. So that's just because you don't like that sort of tone, not because the plugin itself sucks. Same for the Omega. If you don't like the plugin, that's probably because you don't like the amp.

As for value, it's a bargain IF you want the sound of the original $4000+ amp. There are plenty of A/B comparison on YouTube. With the plugin, you're getting a tone which is essentially identical/indistinguishable, for 2.5% of the price. If you want that sort of Meshuggah tone, how is that not a bargain?

For me, I'm not a massive Fortin fanboy, but the sound is a nice tool in the arsenal, and the plugins are reasonably priced IMO. Costs less than a pedal and they release a few every year. Hardly budget breaking.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 16, 2021)

Flappydoodle said:


> Yeah, I agree that sound is not for everybody. I said exactly that in my post.
> 
> Cali is really versatile. Can do nice cleans, blues breakup tones, Gary Moore-type leads, and of course the brutality. Nameless much less so, and it isn't really to my taste.
> 
> ...



Edit: Reformatted to not sound so harsh

I don't like Fortins. Even though I don't like them, I've been wrong about some amps and there's usually something redeemable about almost any piece of gear. The Nameless was the worst of the bunch, The Cali was somewhat better but still did nothing to justify its price tag, and the Granophyre to me was just a total waste of time.

I like Omega amps. I think they sound cool, but the Neural version for 100 dollars was a complete "No" considering my 12 dollar Omega sim I liked more. The Neural didn't do anything worth the extra 88 dollars, at all.

Neural's shit isn't complex. It's just an amp sim. You can spend 3 minutes running it through its features and thrown into your own workflow situation and decide if it's for you. I own a shitload of amp sims, I have yet to find one that takes special time to make sound right and if it does, then it's not a keeper.

100 isn't a value if I'm more impressed with amps that are less than 20 bucks all the way to free.

All the way around there was absolutely nothing to justify the 100 dollar price tag for me.

Do me a favor and show me where I've said my opinions on those amps are facts. I don't need to preface everything by saying 'This is just my opinion'. Of course it is. We're talking about how something sounds, that's always going to be opinion.

When it comes to recording I want results and I want them the easiest way possible because it just makes the most sense. Neural stuff just makes no sense in any way. It's out priced, out performed, and just plain out done by a lot of things I already have.


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## ogon (Jan 17, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> my 12 dollar Omega sim I liked more



Which one is that?


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 17, 2021)

ogon said:


> Which one is that?


PV Amps Tourmafrost


----------



## nickgray (Jan 17, 2021)

Flappydoodle said:


> Most plugins are using iLok these days



Not sure where you got that idea. Most plugins definitely don't use iLok. Off the top of my head: u-he, FabFilter, NI, Arturia, Valhalla DSP, anything from Plugin Alliance, Spectrasonics, TAL, XLN, Toontrack. The funniest thing is that iLok plugins still get cracked, so legit customers basically end up paying for an inferior product.



Flappydoodle said:


> As for value, it's a bargain IF you want the sound of the original $4000+ amp



Not exactly a good way of looking at things. Original gear's value can be inflated due to rarity and/or brand name (with Fortin it's certainly the latter, seems like it's at the core of their business strategy). Not to mention that it's still just a plugin. You can justify monstrously expensive UAD plugins (and hardware) in the same manner, for example.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 17, 2021)

Flappydoodle said:


> And all of those are super expensive boutique amps. For value, if you're actually recreating the recorded sound in a way which is indistinguishable from the real thing, I think $100 or whatever is a bargain.
> 
> Shit, you get a perfect recreation of the Fortin 33 pedal, which by itself costs way more than the plugin. (That said, I think the pedal sounds like shit and ruins tone, but some people still pay a ton of money for it)



I'm tired of that poor analogy. You're buying a plugin, not an amp. When I buy an amp I don't compare its price to plugins to determine if it's overpriced. I compare it with other amps.

Now think about those Console Emulation Channel Strip plugins that emulate mixing consoles worth 50k. Do you still think a 100€ single ampsim is a bargain?


----------



## WarMachine (Jan 17, 2021)

LePou Legion and Ignite Emissary. Doesn't matter to me that they are completely free. I stack these up against any $$$ amp sim plugin out there. And IMO, no need for a boost for either one of these. And now that's got me wanting to try and make a Pod GO patch for both of these to try and match the tonez.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 17, 2021)

WarMachine said:


> LePou Legion and Ignite Emissary. Doesn't matter to me that they are completely free. I stack these up against any $$$ amp sim plugin out there. And IMO, no need for a boost for either one of these. And now that's got me wanting to try and make a Pod GO patch for both of these to try and match the tonez.


The Nalex Ninja is an amp sim that doesn't benefit from a boost. It's the only amp sim I have that sounds boosted already. Anything that helps cut stuff out of the process is a winner to me. When I first got it I thought it was kinda weird and I didn't like it much but I've grown to really like it a lot more than I thought I would, mainly because I realized it sounds better without a boost.

I used it on that black metal song I did. It really lends itself to that sort of thing very well


----------



## MrWulf (Jan 17, 2021)

So I will have to eat crows over what I said about Neural DSP's Archetype Gojira. Their amp sets are great and so far probably up there in term of amp sims. Their 5150s sims are great (even as a hater of 5150 lineages), easy to dial in, and sounds monstrous. Granted, I used my own IRs vs stock IR but I can already dial in different rhythm and lead tones that sound great.

Now if only Neural DSP come out with some other out there amps that haven't been simulated yet (Fryette Pitbulls, etc etc)


----------



## laxu (Jan 18, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I don't like Fortins. Even though I don't like them, I've been wrong about some amps and there's usually something redeemable about almost any piece of gear. The Nameless was the worst of the bunch, The Cali was somewhat better but still did nothing to justify its price tag, and the Granophyre to me was just a total waste of time.



I did not like those plugins either. Cali had maybe a couple of presets I liked, same for Granophyre. I actually found Nameless the best out of the bunch but none of them were worth buying for me considering I already have Helix Native and ML5. There's only so many high gain amps until they all start sounding the same to me with varying amounts of low cut and mid boost.

The thing about these amp sims is that you can do a lot to mangle the sound more to your liking. Its evident from the big pile of presets they offer. Most of it is all about how the cab sim and effects are set up and less so about the amp sim itself.

One of the reasons I like the ML Sound Lab ML5 so much is that most of its stock presets are good, I don't need to work much to tweak them a bit to my liking and the paired cab sims are great match. If I have complaints its the lack of high and low cuts for the cab sim and not being able to see which cab sim is being used. It's rare for a plugin to sound so good to me I want to get the real amp now.


----------



## X1X (Jan 18, 2021)

The Audio Assault Sigma is very buggy for me. The amp requires registering at almost every time it's launched and the audio engine crashes often too. Version 1.02 works fine but version 2 not so much.


----------



## Flappydoodle (Jan 19, 2021)

nickgray said:


> Not sure where you got that idea. Most plugins definitely don't use iLok. Off the top of my head: u-he, FabFilter, NI, Arturia, Valhalla DSP, anything from Plugin Alliance, Spectrasonics, TAL, XLN, Toontrack. The funniest thing is that iLok plugins still get cracked, so legit customers basically end up paying for an inferior product.
> 
> 
> 
> Not exactly a good way of looking at things. Original gear's value can be inflated due to rarity and/or brand name (with Fortin it's certainly the latter, seems like it's at the core of their business strategy). Not to mention that it's still just a plugin. You can justify monstrously expensive UAD plugins (and hardware) in the same manner, for example.



It used to bother me, but since Neural and STL are all using it, and the iLok software hasn't got in the way for a very long time, it doesn't bother me at all now. And when I formatted my Mac and had to reinstall a bunch of stuff, reactivating those in iLok was much faster than all the others where I had to go around finding serial numbers etc.

FabFilter method is kinda worse, to be honest. Needing to copy-paste a big long chain of crap into the plugin isn't fun either, especially if you purchased several at different times. To that regard, iLok is relatively elegant that you can log in once. It also has the cloud benefit, if you are using multiple computers (which I am not).



Emperoff said:


> I'm tired of that poor analogy. You're buying a plugin, not an amp. When I buy an amp I don't compare its price to plugins to determine if it's overpriced. I compare it with other amps.
> 
> Now think about those Console Emulation Channel Strip plugins that emulate mixing consoles worth 50k. Do you still think a 100€ single ampsim is a bargain?



Why is it a poor analogy? If you want *that* sound of the Meshuggah amp, you have two choices:

1. Buy amp

2. Buy plugin

One is much cheaper than other. So if you want that specific sound, the comparison is perfectly valid and it not a bad deal IMO.

And sure, if a $100 plugin gives you the 50K mixing console sound that you want, it's definitely good value.

Honestly, I never got people griping so much about the price of these things. €100 for something high quality which you will use for many hours just doesn't seem worth complaining about.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 19, 2021)

Flappydoodle said:


> Why is it a poor analogy? If you want *that* sound of the Meshuggah amp, you have two choices:
> 
> 1. Buy amp
> 
> ...



In that case you should paypal me 100 bucks.

I'm not gonna give you anything for it...but just send it just cause.

I'm sure you won't...why? Because why would you just throw money away for no reason.


Same for amp sims. Why would anyone pay 100 dollars when you can get similar or better for free?

Not to mention NO plugin is gonna give you 50k mixing console sound. 

If you want the studio sound you'll need to replicate it with studio methods. The amp itself isn't the key, it's everything around it. After a certain point you can't tell one amp or amp sim from another, BUT how you mix it, what speakers you use, etc is what gets you all the way there.

So paying 100 dollars for an amp you think is gonna completely nail a sound is completely pointless and flat out inaccurate.


----------



## twitch (Jan 19, 2021)

I heard "synthwave" and followed the link. I like the music and the the whole discography was such a good value I bought it. Well played sir... well played.


----------



## sakeido (Jan 19, 2021)

twitch said:


> I heard "synthwave" and followed the link. I like the music and the the whole discography was such a good value I bought it. Well played sir... well played.



holy shit you've been a member here for 14 years and this is the first thing you ever posted? 

Thanks a bunch! I feel so special right now wow


----------



## twitch (Jan 19, 2021)

sakeido said:


> holy shit you've been a member here for 14 years and this is the first thing you ever posted?
> 
> Thanks a bunch! I feel so special right now wow


I didn't reallize that this was my first post, guess it may have been one of the following;
1. I'm slow but steady (ie. old)
2. Pandemic and being locked in and all.
3. I like syntwave and your music is fun to listen to.

Cheers!


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## Obed1224 (Jan 19, 2021)

Hey guys sorry if this is slightly off topic but where can I get some good IR's? Could be paid or free Idc. Thanks!


----------



## sakeido (Jan 19, 2021)

Obed1224 said:


> Hey guys sorry if this is slightly off topic but where can I get some good IR's? Could be paid or free Idc. Thanks!



these are OG classics from waaaaay back when and still sound great

Catharsis Impulses – PluginFox

s-preshigh is the "best" one but all are great and there's a room IR in there too. They are too colored to use with an Axe FX but they do great with software VSTs. Really like em with the brainworx stuff


----------



## MrWulf (Jan 19, 2021)

Obed1224 said:


> Hey guys sorry if this is slightly off topic but where can I get some good IR's? Could be paid or free Idc. Thanks!



ML Sound Lab, Ownhammer, York Audio are my picks


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## profwoot (Jan 21, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> In that case you should paypal me 100 bucks.
> 
> I'm not gonna give you anything for it...but just send it just cause.
> 
> ...



This opinion makes sense if you think of amps like how I think of, idk, a table. They all resist the pull of gravity on food or whatever equally well, so why pay for one in a store when you can wait for Big Item Garbage Day and just collect one from a neighbor? Let alone buying an actual nice, solid-wood table!

Music is art. If your artistic vision is best fulfilled by a specific sound, and that sound costs 150 dollars, then fam, it might be best to just pay 150 dollars (budget willing). _This remains true even if said $150 vst turns out to be indistinguishable from a free one in a mix -- _maybe it allowed you get to the point where there _is_ a mix to judge! If it ended the tone chase for a minute and allowed you to just make music, it was still a bargain. 

Look, I'm a scientist/professor in real life so I think I understand the appeal of a logical outlook. But I've more recently learned the importance of embracing the lizard brain even the most reasonable person has living inside them. It can be tempting to reason one's way out of the illogical tendencies we all have, and there's a lot of people in america right now that could sure do with literally any of that, but it can also be reasonable to just embrace one's artistic impulses and see what happens. Sure, marketers thrive on that, but so does art, and it's ok to occasionally prioritize one's artistic process over one's concerns of corporate hegemony or whatever.

Here's an example, hopefully not too off topic: 

I love bare knuckle pickups. All my guitars have them. It's worth an extra ~$50 for me to just put a pickup I know I'll love into a guitar and never think about it again than it is to get a cheaper one that might sound fine but that I'll keep wondering about. 

At this point in my life, my time and headspace is far more valuable to me than the little bit of extra money it takes to just "solve" the whole pickup thing for now. Maybe that means a corporation is taking advantage of my unwillingness to endlessly compare the tones gotten through every pickup in the world, perish the thought. This doesn't make me a fanboy either (or if it does, then I am, I guess). But it's not about defending the honor of my chosen brand or whatever. I really appreciate the folks here and elsewhere trying to contribute to an objective discussion of pickup tech and tones, and it's totally possible sometime in the future I'll have a different impulse re pickups. But for me right now the priority is to get all of those types of things out of the way so I can just make music.

Sorry if this comes across as high falutin'; I literally have no plans for anyone other than my wife to ever hear my music. I just think it's ok for people to have different priorities from each other and at different points in their lives, and all people should be embraced at whatever stage of their process they happen to be in, even if it sometimes involves using a paid vst over a free one.

(This wasn't really directed at the quoted poster; I've been thinking about this stuff lately and this got a little long.)


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## eclecto-acoustic (Jan 21, 2021)

profwoot said:


> This opinion makes sense if you think of amps like how I think of, idk, a table. They all resist the pull of gravity on food or whatever equally well, so why pay for one in a store when you can wait for Big Item Garbage Day and just collect one from a neighbor? Let alone buying an actual nice, solid-wood table!
> 
> Music is art. If your artistic vision is best fulfilled by a specific sound, and that sound costs 150 dollars, then fam, it might be best to just pay 150 dollars (budget willing). _This remains true even if said $150 vst turns out to be indistinguishable from a free one in a mix -- _maybe it allowed you get to the point where there _is_ a mix to judge! If it ended the tone chase for a minute and allowed you to just make music, it was still a bargain.
> 
> ...



I'm trying to find ways to like this more than once.


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## Paul McAleer (Jan 22, 2021)

Idk man, just buy a used up POD xt and use some external IRS. 

we’re just spending extra money on trying to achieve tones that meshuggah farted out in 2002 with line 6 I’m drunk


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 22, 2021)

profwoot said:


> This opinion makes sense if you think of amps like how I think of, idk, a table. They all resist the pull of gravity on food or whatever equally well, so why pay for one in a store when you can wait for Big Item Garbage Day and just collect one from a neighbor? Let alone buying an actual nice, solid-wood table!
> 
> Music is art. If your artistic vision is best fulfilled by a specific sound, and that sound costs 150 dollars, then fam, it might be best to just pay 150 dollars (budget willing). _This remains true even if said $150 vst turns out to be indistinguishable from a free one in a mix -- _maybe it allowed you get to the point where there _is_ a mix to judge! If it ended the tone chase for a minute and allowed you to just make music, it was still a bargain.
> 
> ...



Problem with that analogy is a premium amp sim isn't a new table and a free one isn't a used one.

Both sims are pretty much the same thing. It's just a means to get a sound. It's not even the biggest factor, so getting it expecting to nail a tone might not work in your favor since the IRs and mix matters more.

If ya just wanna buy new shiny stuff then great...but the idea some amp suite is "the (insert band here)" and it being simple as that is misleading.

If I think something is worth the money then I'd pay, but to me it's highly illogical buying stuff like Neural when it doesn't really do anything 100 dollars better than cheaper options.


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## profwoot (Jan 31, 2021)

Quick PSA for anyone who might find this useful or interesting:

My current project has various single-vst guitar tracks, and their idle CPU use breaks down like this:

-NDSP (Nameless, Cali, Wong) all seem similar, with each varying between about 3.3 and 4.3% CPU usage. 

-STL Andy James, on the other hand, uses ~1.1-1.2% with post-fx and ~0.8-0.9% without.

The usage of Nameless & Cali is more than half attributable to the amp section, with most of the rest from the cab section. For Wong, the amp section is a little less taxing, but post-fx adds quite a bit, basically equal to each of the amp and cab sections.

Pre-fx add minimal processing if you're already using the amp, maxing out at ~10% of the total even when using all available pedals. If you're only using the pre-fx section, that goes up to more like 20-25% of the total, however, so NDSP pre-fx are about equal to STL pre-fx+amp+cab

These numbers are all in mono with high oversampling. Normal oversampling reduces usage by a third or so, and going stereo roughly doubles usage in every case, as one might expect.

Those with a nice CPU or few tracks won't need to worry about all this, but for now I'll be replacing NDSP tracks with STL ones on guitar parts that aren't very prominent, and using STL for stand-alone post-fx (instead of Wong), until I can build a new computer or it's time to worry about final mixing.


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## profwoot (Feb 15, 2021)

Just about finished with this track and the Wong suite is definitely the biggest offender. I had to render all the clean stuff because any instances of Wong made the whole thing choke (and the AC30 in the STL AJ suite just isn't close to what Wong can do).


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## profwoot (Jun 26, 2021)

FYI, Plugin Alliance has a sale going (they always have a sale going) + a $20 voucher such that you could grab this amp for 20 bucks: https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/fuchs_overdrive_supreme_50.html

It's in the Dumble/2Rock family so it's not exactly comparable, but it has just the kind of stank I'm after and has replaced Cory Wong for most of my crunch and cleans.

It also has a gate, hi/lo pass, delay, pre/power amp toggles, power soak, and IR section built in, although I tend to just use the amp.

Edit: I'd also be interested in opinions on the new STL Lasse Lammert Purple Nightmare suite. I guess I should just try the demo but wonder if anyone here already has.


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## Millul (Jun 26, 2021)

profwoot said:


> FYI, Plugin Alliance has a sale going (they always have a sale going) + a $20 voucher such that you could grab this amp for 20 bucks: https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/products/fuchs_overdrive_supreme_50.html
> 
> It's in the Dumble/2Rock family so it's not exactly comparable, but it has just the kind of stank I'm after and has replaced Cory Wong for most of my crunch and cleans.
> 
> ...



I've DLed the demo a couple of days ago, and I've been playing through the presets - the Driftwood ones are really good, to my ears, the Marshall and Diezel ones would take some tweaking...


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## Elric (Jun 26, 2021)

profwoot said:


> Edit: I'd also be interested in opinions on the new STL Lasse Lammert Purple Nightmare suite. I guess I should just try the demo but wonder if anyone here already has.


I bought it, the STL plugins are pretty darn good. I like all three amps. I have a real Driftwood amp being built right now, so I thought it would be cool to have a virtual version, too.

I think the STL is generally underrated and does not get enough love. Tonehub is kind of like having a Kemper.

The Neural stuff always gets mentioned because it is killer. It is in the top tier for sure.

THU by Overloud is insane. Might be my #1 overall.


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## eclecto-acoustic (Jun 26, 2021)

Has anyone been following the Elk Audio OS perchance? If I'm reading their literature properly, one of the uses for it will be a dedicated low latency OS on standard computer hardware for live VST rigs.


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## Millul (Jun 27, 2021)

After fiddling with the demo, I just bought the new Flagship suite from ML Audio - to me, it sounds glorious, better than NDSP Gojira (the top end is way less fizzy and harsh, mainly, at least to my ears - and it can get pretty grindy if needed).


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