# Help me design my rig.



## heavy7-665 (Jan 11, 2011)

So I'm at the point where my rig really needs an overhaul. Most of my gear fell apart/got lost during the summer tour and I need to design a brand new one. But alas, as a former guitarist bass gear confuses me 

I've got some opportunities coming up so I need to do this quick. Im looking for a pretty distorted tone that still maintains some definition/clarity. Especially in low tunings(B and A on my 5 and soon F# and E on my 9). But i do plan on easily switching to a clean tone for certain parts.

The only pieces of my current rig I want to keep are my Acoustic 1x15 cab(Im getting the 4x10 to match it so cabs are handled) and my tuner pedal. 

My budget is pretty slim so I can only spend about 300-500 bucks on each piece of gear, tops.

Please help
Love,
Gearless in Utah.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 11, 2011)

With that budget, look for a used Gallien-Krueger 700RB, they pop up quite frequently and are pretty close to your budget. They're easily some of the best sounding 100% solid state bass amps around. They also sound good when an Overdrive or Distortion pedal is put in front of them. There's also tons of awesome Hartke, Carvin, and Peavey gear in your price range. 

Some things to note overall concerning bass gear:

- Solid State is awesome. Some of the best bass amps around are solid state. Don't let your expirences as a guitarist hating solid state sway your judgement. 
- If going Solid State, you'll want upwards of 500 watts for live use in a band setting, especially if you might not be mic'd. 
- DI outs on bass gear is VERY cool and will aid you when you need to go through the house PA.


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## heavy7-665 (Jan 11, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> With that budget, look for a used Gallien-Krueger 700RB, they pop up quite frequently and are pretty close to your budget. They're easily some of the best sounding 100% solid state bass amps around. They also sound good when an Overdrive or Distortion pedal is put in front of them. There's also tons of awesome Hartke, Carvin, and Peavey gear in your price range.
> 
> Some things to note overall concerning bass gear:
> 
> ...



Thanks man, I actually  solid state


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 11, 2011)

Oh god. That 4x10/1x15 pairing is not what I'd use for maximum SPL, especially if you want any volume out of the low notes. I'd use two 4x10s; that 15 won't add any appreciable amount to your sound because the 4x10 is more sensitive, and the 4x10s usually go much lower than a 1x15 anyway.

With bass, good cab choices are far more important than with guitar.

Cheap ways to go for amps:
-GK 800RB or 1001RB
-Markbass Little Mark II/III
-Eden WT405
Other cheap ways to go if you're not averse to pre+power amp setups:
-Sansamp + Crown XLS Drivecore 1000/1500/2500 (this will get you your distortion without needing a pedal) or Carvin DCM3000L

Distortion pedals to check out:
-Aguilar AGRO
-Aguilar Tone Hammer
-Tech 21 VT Bass
-Catalinbread SFT
-Digitech Bad Monkey (No, I'm not kidding.)

Cabs:
-Used Eden D410XLTs are heavy as fuck but seriously loud and well-built, can be had for a steal
-check Craigslist for Ampeg 8x10s/6x10s
-Mesa or Bergantino 6x10s or 2x15s are fantastic as well, and although pricey can often be found cheaply used.


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## heavy7-665 (Jan 11, 2011)

TemjinStrife said:


> Oh god. That 4x10/1x15 pairing is not what I'd use for maximum SPL, especially if you want any volume out of the low notes. I'd use two 4x10s; that 15 won't add any appreciable amount to your sound because the 4x10 is more sensitive, and the 4x10s usually go much lower than a 1x15 anyway.
> 
> With bass, good cab choices are far more important than with guitar.
> 
> ...



Everyone has been telling me to go pre+power amp. What are the benefits?

Also, whats the scoop on the Tech 21?


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 11, 2011)

Benefits: you choose the preamp you like, and you can put as much power behind it as you want. With the Drivecore or DCM amps, you don't even have to haul a 50 lb lead sled around either. Also often works in stereo, and gives you access to the ability to biamp should you ever need it.

Cons: Often more expensive, bigger, and heavier than an integrated head, and more complex.

I use a Sansamp VT Bass into the FX return of crappy backline amps all the time, basically replacing their preamp section with the preamp of the VT Bass. The Sansamp rackmount pre does similar things, although it's a little mid-shy.

If I was to go big, I'd get an Eden WP100 Navigator rackmount preamp (great compressor, excellent EQ and tone) and pair it with a Crown XLS Drivecore 2500. Nav pres go for $450-600 used usually, and the 2500 is around $699. You could easily get away with smaller and cheaper though.


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## Rook (Jan 13, 2011)

TemjinStrife said:


> Oh god. That 4x10/1x15 pairing is not what I'd use for maximum SPL, especially if you want any volume out of the low notes. I'd use two 4x10s; that 15 won't add any appreciable amount to your sound because the 4x10 is more sensitive, and the 4x10s usually go much lower than a 1x15 anyway.
> 
> With bass, good cab choices are far more important than with guitar.
> 
> ...



+100000

For distortion, also checkout the Blackstar HT pedals, no joke, they keep all of that low end beauty that often suffers using guitar pedals, too.


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## heavy7-665 (Jan 13, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> +100000
> 
> For distortion, also checkout the Blackstar HT pedals, no joke, they keep all of that low end beauty that often suffers using guitar pedals, too.



The distortion Im going for is a guitar-ish tone. Im gonna be palm muting alot so I need it to be thick and blend with the guitars.


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## ZEBOV (Jan 13, 2011)

This is just barely over your budget, but if you sell that Acoustic 1x15 (you won't need it), you'll have the money for this.
Carvin.com :: BX1500-10.4N
This is meant to handle those extreme lows you're putting out, and this alone is louder than the entire Acoustic rig you're thinking of.


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## Rook (Jan 14, 2011)

heavy7-665 said:


> The distortion Im going for is a guitar-ish tone. Im gonna be palm muting alot so I need it to be thick and blend with the guitars.



In that case, give the Dist or Dist X a go, the HT Drive is what I'd go for but is a bit grindier, not so full on.


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## Rook (Jan 14, 2011)

EDIT: Fail.


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## BrutalExorcist (Jan 14, 2011)

+1 on the Blackstar HT line (despite what I've said before, just needed to get the wax out of my ears). I've been using the HT-Dual I have with bass, channel 1 + crunch set up for grit, and channel 2 for thick saturation. Natural tube saturation with no low end loss. Make sure you don't use a tweeter with distortion running though or you'll have 10,000 vengeful killer bees attacking anyone who hears it.


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## josh pelican (Jan 15, 2011)

Only use the Catalinbread SFT if you are playing a passive bass. The AGRO will work wonders for both active and passive.

Other pedals you should look into:
An original white face Rat (or a good clone like the RatTail)
Pickle Pie B
Grey Stache
Supercollider
Swollen Pickle MK II
MOSFET Bass Overdrive

A 6x10 with a 2x15 is magnificent and monstrous.


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## heavy7-665 (Jan 20, 2011)

So I managed to snag a Line 6 Bass Pod Pro for $150. Which Im hoping will kick some ass.

I was also considering using my Line 6 4x10 guitar cab with the Acoustic 1x15.


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 20, 2011)

heavy7-665 said:


> So I managed to snag a Line 6 Bass Pod Pro for $150. Which Im hoping will kick some ass.
> 
> I was also considering using my Line 6 4x10 guitar cab with the Acoustic 1x15.



Congratulations on listening to absolutely nothing with regards to cabs.

Also, if that's a 4x10 guitar cab, you're likely to blow the drivers if you put any significant amount of bass volume through them.


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## deevit (Jan 20, 2011)

TemjinStrife said:


> Also, if that's a 4x10 guitar cab, you're likely to blow the drivers if you put any significant amount of bass volume through them.



+2!

Using a guitar cab on high volumes isn't a good idea, especially when you want to go that low with a F#. You can and will blow your drivers. To get decent sounds with those tunings you really need a good bass rig with a lot of power.


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## Rook (Jan 20, 2011)

deevit said:


> +2!
> 
> Using a guitar cab on high volumes isn't a good idea, especially when you want to go that low with a F#. You can and will blow your drivers. To get decent sounds with those tunings you really need a good bass rig with a lot of power.



And speakers of the same sizes! Listen to these guys, particularly Temjin, they're so on the ball you wouldn't believe haha.


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## heavy7-665 (Jan 20, 2011)

TemjinStrife said:


> Congratulations on listening to absolutely nothing with regards to cabs.
> 
> Also, if that's a 4x10 guitar cab, you're likely to blow the drivers if you put any significant amount of bass volume through them.



I apologize. 

I AM picking up an 8x10 for live, what I forgot to include in my post is I wanted to see if using a guitar cab for RECORDING purposes for highs would sound ok(lower volumes obviously).

I am taking every bit of advice here seriously and I appreciate all of it. Sorry if my lack of clarity upset you.


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 20, 2011)

Ahh. Yes, in that case, for lower-volume recording that should be fine. Some of the best recorded bass tones I've gotten that weren't DI'ed (back when we were in the studio) were using my Mesa F-30 amp head on the clean channel into a '70s Fender guitar 2x12. Use your ears and make sure you're not hearing the speaker "strain" and you should be fine.


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## GuitaristOfHell (Jan 20, 2011)

Anything Peavey USA. So far in my view one of the most solid amps out there. my friend Nathan had one ( can't remember the name nor does he...he sold it), but it sounded pretty nice.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 20, 2011)

heavy7-665 said:


> I apologize.
> 
> I AM picking up an 8x10 for live, what I forgot to include in my post is I wanted to see if using a guitar cab for RECORDING purposes for highs would sound ok(lower volumes obviously).
> 
> I am taking every bit of advice here seriously and I appreciate all of it. Sorry if my lack of clarity upset you.



It's OK, Josh cries a lot.


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 20, 2011)

Stealthtastic said:


> It's OK, Josh cries a lot.



You're just pissy 'cause I'm right


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## nephilymbass (Feb 7, 2011)

for really low tunings the tech 21 sans amp RBI pre amp is my favorite. Its only 300 bucks and its great. I have Warwick thumb neck through 5 that sells on Musicians friend now for like 4,500 (I didn't pay that much) and I run it into a BBE sonic stomp into this simple 300 dollar pre amp. I actually got it because I noticed a lot of the signed bands we opened for had bass players using them and they had that really deep thick and punchy tone I wanted. Just line out of the sans amp XLR to the PA or recording interface. A big reason I like it live is I can push my ampeg 810e as hard as I want and I don't have to worry about overpowering a mic. Its one of the FEW XLR outs I've used that wasn't "dead" sounding. Plus it has an XLR output level control which comes in handy. To hook it up to your other gear go from the 1/4 inch sans amp output to either the effects return or power amp in on your bass head. Or straight to a PA power amp then to whatever cabs you like. Cheap and effective


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## nephilymbass (Feb 7, 2011)

heavy7-665 said:


> I apologize.
> 
> I AM picking up an 8x10 for live, what I forgot to include in my post is I wanted to see if using a guitar cab for RECORDING purposes for highs would sound ok(lower volumes obviously).
> 
> I am taking every bit of advice here seriously and I appreciate all of it. Sorry if my lack of clarity upset you.



guitar cabs work cool to thicken higher stuff (like jazz type solos above the 12th fret) but even an open E with any decent kind of volume can shred most low watt guitar speakers pretty quickly. If you get something with 100 Watt speakers you might be ok with a low powered amp (under 300 watts) but personally I wouldn't try it without some type of crossover to split the highs and lows or major EQing so the guitar speakers are not getting all the lows. Ryan from mudvayne used to use this type of setup by cutting all the lows on the amp he used to power his guitar cab so it was just mids and highs and all his low end was a separate amp and cab. Personally I'm not a big fan of his over compressed type tone and biamping live as an unsigned band is a pain in the ass to argue with some sound guys about and is generally not allowed at most clubs on the east coast from my experience. That's one more reason I like the Sans amp RBI because you can blend your direct signal in with the preamp signal so you are basically sending two channels of bass to the board, only they can't mess with the mix of those 2 channels. PLus you get the full spectrum of sound not just the frequencys that whatever mic is used is picking up or your speakers are putting out. Not all line outs are created equal but I've used the RBI in the studio by itself and in my live rig and I like it. If you want more gain than the unit has run a distortion or fuzz in the effects loop so the dry bass signal isn't effected and can still keeps most of the low end present.


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## jarrhead (Feb 13, 2011)

If you want a distorted tone that maintains clarity, grab some Gallien-Krueger NEO gear. The 2001 is way out of your price range but if you can use the 2001RBP preamp they sell ($300) and run it out to a power amp you'll be set. It's simpler, but is a replica of the version of the Justin Chancellor (Tool) distortion, so you can get an idea of its sound.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Feb 13, 2011)

Those Neodymium speakers will cut down on carry weight, much like the small mark bass amps or the mesa walkabout series.


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## jarrhead (Feb 13, 2011)

Absolutely. My 112 GK Neo is 36 lbs and my 212 GK Neo is somewhere around 64 or 56 pounds? Don't remember the number. They sound awesome too.

IMHO, The GK amps can't be beat. The cabs either. The ONLY problem they have is quality control. But GK Took care of that for me with no hassle. I just drove it up to an authorized service center and they covered everything. NO costs on my end, unless you count gasoline.


I use a GK 700RB-II with the NEO Cabs. A 212 and 112. Plenty of low-end.

But yeah, if you're looking for maximum SPL, get two 4x10s. The 115 is a waste of cash to add. Volume stays about the same as it splits wattage between the two (even with the boost) the sensitivity makes up for the extra wattage.

A 410 & 212 is a common choice, but i've never used one personally.


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## TemjinStrife (Feb 13, 2011)

^ Volume does not stay the same. Adding more speakers increases the sensitivity, which means that the overall volume per watt is louder


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## jarrhead (Feb 13, 2011)

TemjinStrife said:


> ^ Volume does not stay the same. Adding more speakers increases the sensitivity, which means that the overall volume per watt is louder




True. But the volume difference between 100W into a 410 and 100W into a 1x15 is there.


EDIT: Yeah, see what you're saying. Forgot about the impedance, but 100W split between a 410 and 115 will be less than that of 100W into a 410 or split between two 410s


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## TemjinStrife (Feb 13, 2011)

jarrhead said:


> True. But the volume difference between 100W into a 410 and 100W into a 1x15 is there.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Yeah, see what you're saying. Forgot about the impedance, but 100W split between a 410 and 115 will be less than that of 100W into a 410 or split between two 410s



Ahh, yes, I thought you were discussing two 4x10s.

The 4x10+1x15 pairing is awful; the 1x15 is not nearly as sensitive as the 4x10 and is 99% likely to have lower maximum power handling too. Therefore, the 1x15 won't add anything appreciable or noticeable to the sound and will limit the amount the whole stack can be turned up to since it won't handle as much power.

Also, the idea that "adding a 15 to add lows" is also erroneous, since I know on average most 4x10s will go lower than a 1x15. Either go 2x 4x10 or 2x 1x15, IMHO. Both can sound very good, although I've been impressed with the volume and power handling to size/weight ratio of a lot of modern 2x12 and 1x12 bass cabs recently.


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## jarrhead (Feb 13, 2011)

I use a 212 112 stack. 212 410 is good too. 212 212 as well.


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## TemjinStrife (Feb 13, 2011)

Yeah, for my big gigs I ran an Eden 210+212 stack. Not ideal probably, but they blended well and the combination sounded great. The 212 was voiced very warm, and the 210 was voiced a little punchier.

Nowadays I run a 35 lb. 1x12+horn that's probably about as loud as that 210, and might be able to give the 212 a run for its money in terms of maximum volume.


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## josh pelican (Feb 14, 2011)

This thread needs more 15" speakers.


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