# Writing, personal work



## Bevo (Mar 6, 2020)

Hello

I did see a very old thread on this but thought a new one is in order.

As musicians, I think we all have an artistic side in us. We may be writing music, painting, or needlepoint, otherwise known as tattoos. Whatever it may give us the satisfaction of a completed project made with our hands and brains.
In my case, I have been a closet writer forever, not finishing anything almost intentionally. Recently I have found some writing forums online and have taken to the writing competitions, highly recommended. Some of these are also made around music so you can test your songs to those who know. They may not know your music, but they can wordsmith and help.
Over the last while, I have made some great strides and have completed a book of short stories. These are cycling fiction events, real but made "feel good" for the reader. The process was fun, and the stress to put it out there was massive! I used Amazon/Kindle, and it was a fantastic experience, they make it easy.
My goal was to sell ten copies, which I have.
I will author page is in the link below, but the intent here is to show an end product and help those who may be writing. The process can become more manageable if you know a few things or need to bounce ideas off a group.

To be clear, not looking for sales just proud of my achievement.
https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B085HXGVNM


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## soliloquy (Apr 2, 2020)

i'm kind of the same in that i have been a closet writer for almost 3 decades now. i essentially started writing to combat my dyslexia, and it eventually took hold as a hobby. 
and i'm not sure if its that i'm happy now, or that I've mentally exhausted all my brain capacity, but try as a might, and i just can not get the creative juices flowing.
reading my older work from some 5, or 10 years ago, and i amaze myself as to how good i was. Now, when i try to write anything, it just comes up as juvenile and uninspired. 

though my goal is not really to publish myself, it is to gain a stronger stage presence, and be able to do slam poetry, and potentially challenge the norm of constant rhymes that go hand in hand with the medium. 

maybe one day.


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## bostjan (Apr 2, 2020)

I wrote a fantasy novelette in 7th grade that was not bad for a kid, and everything I've written since then has been shit.

I'm jealous.


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## Bevo (Oct 21, 2021)

I totally forgot about this thread.

My book did make it on Kindle, sold about 100 which is pretty cool!
One 5 star review and not from my mom LOL!
This is a great action, adventure thriller. Guns, girls, murder, sex, MMA, computers and fun!

check out the preview for a bit more info.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GRB3TCD/?tag=sevenstringorg-20


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## LostTheTone (Oct 21, 2021)

Hey good for you dude! It's important to actually push these projects through to completion, even if they don't make you rich. Way too many people say they want to do it but they lose momentum and don't even finish the actual writing bit, let alone anything that comes after. 

Also, you mentioned you hung out at writing related forums? Did one of them happen to be www.writingforums.org ? I ask because that's where I met my wife, back when I wrote books to traumatize schoolgirls with and she wrote gay porn.


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## Bevo (Oct 21, 2021)

LostTheTone said:


> Hey good for you dude! It's important to actually push these projects through to completion, even if they don't make you rich. Way too many people say they want to do it but they lose momentum and don't even finish the actual writing bit, let alone anything that comes after.
> 
> Also, you mentioned you hung out at writing related forums? Did one of them happen to be www.writingforums.org ? I ask because that's where I met my wife, back when I wrote books to traumatize schoolgirls with and she wrote gay porn.




LOL, meeting your wife doing gay porn is pretty extreme!
I do believe I was with them, I did the short story challenges but moved on to my own thing, great place to learn!

thanks for your kind words, I totally agree with you, starting is 100% easier than finishing.
My new book “Child Killer” is done now just editing, should be another exciting one!


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 21, 2021)

I've been writing poetry off and on for 15 years but I don't typically talk about it. For some reason it feels more invasive to share my poetry with people than music i wrote, or stuff I painted. Idk probably just my own weird hangup


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## Demiurge (Oct 21, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I've been writing poetry off and on for 15 years but I don't typically talk about it. For some reason it feels more invasive to share my poetry with people than music i wrote, or stuff I painted. Idk probably just my own weird hangup



Same. I compare my work to Kafka, in that there will be a BURN ALL MY SHIT NOW order in place when I die.


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## LostTheTone (Oct 22, 2021)

Bevo said:


> LOL, meeting your wife doing gay porn is pretty extreme!
> I do believe I was with them, I did the short story challenges but moved on to my own thing, great place to learn!
> 
> thanks for your kind words, I totally agree with you, starting is 100% easier than finishing.
> My new book “Child Killer” is done now just editing, should be another exciting one!



Oh man a weirdly large number of women write gay erotica. And you know what it's like, you start chatting about something you're both passionate about and talk about character development and hit it off. And then one day comes and you work out that a chicks who gets hot and bothered by dudes smashing is probably into some butt stuff, and then you get married.


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## LostTheTone (Oct 22, 2021)

Demiurge said:


> Same. I compare my work to Kafka, in that there will be a BURN ALL MY SHIT NOW order in place when I die.



Could be Kafka, could be Jimmy Saville, we will never know because it's all getting burned!


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## Bevo (Oct 22, 2021)

That’s awesome, your totally right, amazing how our passions direct our lives..


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## nightflameauto (Nov 3, 2021)

Right on, man. That rules.

I've been a writer for over forty years, but very rarely try to publish anything. Thing is, I recently started a story that I feel is making literally everything else I ever wrote feel like it was all practice. Now, 100% guarantee no publisher would touch it with a ten foot pole because it's not something that you can slap into a genre and call it a day, but I'll figure out some way to get it out there once I get an editing process figured out for it.

Your story in the OP sounds like it's a similar type of thing, genre mashing, but in a different trajectory.

Mine's sci-fi/horror/fantasy with vampires, fairies, dragons and countless other fantasy creatures in space. Except, it also turned into a military epic. And a romance. And a story about raising a family in weird conditions. With a daughter that's special on an epic level. And I realized halfway through book three that this isn't so much a story as a slice-of-life in a universe filled with characters that I love that could go on for eternity. My wife's been reading my rough drafts and talking about these characters like they're friends, so I think I'm on to something.


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## LostTheTone (Nov 4, 2021)

nightflameauto said:


> Right on, man. That rules.
> 
> I've been a writer for over forty years, but very rarely try to publish anything. Thing is, I recently started a story that I feel is making literally everything else I ever wrote feel like it was all practice. Now, 100% guarantee no publisher would touch it with a ten foot pole because it's not something that you can slap into a genre and call it a day, but I'll figure out some way to get it out there once I get an editing process figured out for it.
> 
> ...



Good luck to you with your latest endeavor - As long as you are enjoying it then don't worry too much about the publishing implications. 

And, as you say, it does sound less like one story, and more like a franchise setting with many stories inside it. Nothing wrong with that; that's what Discworld is, and you can argue that Game Of Thrones is that too. The important thing from a literary point of view is delivering a strong entry point to the setting that makes people want to stick around and see lots of different things. 

And you can learn from how Game Of Thrones is structured in this regard. Our entry point to that setting is a time of relative boredom, but the shadow of huge events are hanging over it, and the story we follow around John Arryn's death seems quite minor but in fact that's going to kick off the next big epic. Everyone gets a chance to just kinda be themselves for a bit, before the story arrives to sweep them along. When you read it the first time it feels like it's a straight status quo set up, but a book later and you realize that it's actually an in medias res opening, we just didn't know it at the time. Super smart writing.


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## nightflameauto (Nov 4, 2021)

LostTheTone said:


> Good luck to you with your latest endeavor - As long as you are enjoying it then don't worry too much about the publishing implications.
> 
> And, as you say, it does sound less like one story, and more like a franchise setting with many stories inside it. Nothing wrong with that; that's what Discworld is, and you can argue that Game Of Thrones is that too. The important thing from a literary point of view is delivering a strong entry point to the setting that makes people want to stick around and see lots of different things.
> 
> And you can learn from how Game Of Thrones is structured in this regard. Our entry point to that setting is a time of relative boredom, but the shadow of huge events are hanging over it, and the story we follow around John Arryn's death seems quite minor but in fact that's going to kick off the next big epic. Everyone gets a chance to just kinda be themselves for a bit, before the story arrives to sweep them along. When you read it the first time it feels like it's a straight status quo set up, but a book later and you realize that it's actually an in medias res opening, we just didn't know it at the time. Super smart writing.


I kind of stumbled into a similar setup just telling the story as it came to me. There are big events looming, but they barely get hinted at in the beginning. Instead book one focuses on a primary relationship's start that's pretty normal feeling except for the fact it's a vampire and the greatest vampire killer that's ever lived. But there's a conflict and resolution contained in that book that's deeply personal for them and according to my wife very engaging.

My original vision was to treat these books more like a TV show. Each book, around 175-200 pages in paperback form according to my formatting software, would be the equivalent of an episode. Some episodes focus primarily on my main couple, while others will focus on my setting's (a naval space ship) crew and how their actions affect the couple's lives. I've always had longer stories to tell, and this one has already laid the groundwork for the equivalent of a ten to twelve season TV show if I want to stick with it. 

Right now it's so much fun I don't see why I'd set it aside. And like you say, that's the only thing that really matters when it comes to writing.


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## wheresthefbomb (Nov 4, 2021)

Glad to see such positive updates, great for you man!



LostTheTone said:


> I ask because that's where I met my wife, back when I wrote books to traumatize schoolgirls with and she wrote gay porn.



I had a friend who was a writer, they told me they had almost completely quit writing their own projects and were writing almost exclusively mediocre slashfic because it sold faster than they could turn it out.


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## LostTheTone (Nov 5, 2021)

wheresthefbomb said:


> I had a friend who was a writer, they told me they had almost completely quit writing their own projects and were writing almost exclusively mediocre slashfic because it sold faster than they could turn it out.



Oh yeah man, the most successful writer that I personally know writes under three different names, and she does crime, mainstream romance and erotica, and she generally makes more money from erotica than anything else. 

Thing is that in writing (and all endeavors, but writing too) the top few people make most of the money. And this isn't a 9 to 5 affair; there ain't no hourly wage. Most people in any genre make no money at all, especially in the self-publishing age. You have to be pretty popular just to turn around meaningful amounts of cash (say 5 to 10k per year) and you have to be doing really quite well to make enough money that you can even arguably live on writing. And in these established mainstream genres you are up against some stiff competition, and an established PR machine.

But if you are out in a garbage genre that no-one respects, and you have good writing craft, and it runs on word of mouth and personal publicity, then you can end up being at the top of that field. Most erotica is properly garbage. Not just uninspired story telling; like the author appears close to illiterate and doesn't notice when they repeat the same few words for body parts. So just dropping into that space as semi-pro who cares about characters and writing craft and you can blow them all away. You still have to work hard to find your audience, and there is an expectation that you will churn out work quickly, but there is also less pressure to write exceptional literature at all times. It's ok to have a formula, as long as you come up with some fun sex scenes and mix up your settings. 

Oh and the erotica audience are seriously loyal to authors they like. Even to no-name writers on the internet. When they find someone that seems to speak to their specific *ahem* needs then they often buy everything the author puts out.


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## nightflameauto (Nov 5, 2021)

Well, I'm liking the turn in this conversation. My current story blends gore/horror and "romance" that gets rather explicit in with day-to-day doings. I was beginning to have doubts that the mix would work, but, as they say, sex sells so onward we march. 

So, fantasy/sci-fi/horror/gore/sex. Who wants that mix? Apparently I do.


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## LostTheTone (Nov 5, 2021)

nightflameauto said:


> Well, I'm liking the turn in this conversation. My current story blends gore/horror and "romance" that gets rather explicit in with day-to-day doings. I was beginning to have doubts that the mix would work, but, as they say, sex sells so onward we march.
> 
> So, fantasy/sci-fi/horror/gore/sex. Who wants that mix? Apparently I do.



Most of my books fall into the same weird genre combinations area. The first three are at least primarily political thrillers, just with a dark edge to them ("Just sign your postal ballot... And you don't get your methadone until you do...") but after that it gets complicated. 

One trilogy of books about a teenage boy who is the son of a cult leader, and following him taking over when his dad dies. He will eventually fall in love with older woman who raised him, as his loyal disciples steal the money and run. 

Then I got into teenage romance that combines adorable romantic plots set against the backdrop of really really horrible things happening at the same time. One is pretending to have cancer, one is being beaten by her foster dad, the last one slowly discovers that she is a really terrible person and uses a competitors sexual abuse against her to win a beauty pageant. Suffice to say that all have downer ending which can only properly be understood if you listen to the Joker cackling as you read the last chapter.


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## nightflameauto (Nov 5, 2021)

LostTheTone said:


> Then I got into teenage romance that combines adorable romantic plots set against the backdrop of really really horrible things happening at the same time. One is pretending to have cancer, one is being beaten by her foster dad, the last one slowly discovers that she is a really terrible person and uses a competitors sexual abuse against her to win a beauty pageant. Suffice to say that all have downer ending which can only properly be understood if you listen to the Joker cackling as you read the last chapter.


That one sounds awesome.

I've written a lot of things over the years that, even as I'm writing them, I have a hard time thinking it's worth a crap. This story now though is so chock to the brim full of things I love that it's a real gripper.

My main hero vampire (dating the captain) grew up in the same time period I did. And the story "now" is five hundred seventy some years in the future. So he's tossing around quotes and things from our time period (calling people dude, quoting Friends and Seinfeld, etc) that nobody around him understands. His goofiness is juxtaposed against the captain's extremely violent battles that are gore filled festivals of pure, unadulterated horror. People locked in cages and used as living blood bags by hordes of vampires that have gone feral and taken over worlds, stations and ships. She and her special team can destroy a horde in record time, and save those people. Meanwhile her and her vampire fall in love and start knocking boots everywhere they go. In ridiculous fashion. They can't keep their hands off each other. Like rowdy teenagers barely able to be in public together without getting too raw for everybody else.

And the vampire likes to cook. Just for funsies. He gets along with the crew of the galley and they have many conversations as he prepares meals using his vampire speed.

And then cap gets pregnant with an empath that can share future memories through touch from the moment of conception.

Just fun, fun, fun.


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## LostTheTone (Nov 5, 2021)

nightflameauto said:


> That one sounds awesome.



Oh man you have no idea. I remain deeply happy about the whole thing, even like 5 years later. I sort of don't care that no-one has ever read it. I know.



nightflameauto said:


> My main hero vampire (dating the captain) grew up in the same time period I did. And the story "now" is five hundred seventy some years in the future. So he's tossing around quotes and things from our time period (calling people dude, quoting Friends and Seinfeld, etc) that nobody around him understands.



You got to be careful with that stuff man. Literature has this weird thing because you, the writer, know there is an audience and its OK to play to them a bit, but the character is supposed to act like no-one is watching.

Not saying you shouldn't play with it, just its a balancing act. You can do the occasional "Nah, doesn't matter" when other characters don't get it, but you can't do it all the time.

I remember writing an extended scene in one of the political books where the main character (who is a a 5" flat, 90lb chick with a drug problem - she's my self-insert character) is really feeling paranoid, like someone is following her to work. She has good reason to, and will get kidnapped later, but this time it turns out no-one is following her. But the whole thing is synced to Headhunter by Front 242 playing on her headphones as she is on the London underground. Which is really atmospheric and interesting if you know the song, but practically no-one does and if you don't then the tension and timing is way off.


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## nightflameauto (Nov 8, 2021)

LostTheTone said:


> You got to be careful with that stuff man. Literature has this weird thing because you, the writer, know there is an audience and its OK to play to them a bit, but the character is supposed to act like no-one is watching.


I hear ya. I typically restrict those sorts of things to either him being drunk and goofy, which isn't that often, or little one-offs that he explains to the captain when they're alone together. No more than one or two per "book." It's mostly just who he is, carrying things things with him as a coping mechanism during his hard years. So they don't just disappear once he finds happiness, but they aren't an ever present and persistent thing either.


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## Bevo (Nov 29, 2021)

Some great info from your updates.

‘The erotica your right, like porn, massive money making buisiness that no one uses. Some comments I got from my book was around the sex scenes, pretty funny I thought but now I get it.
I should make my next one in that category lol!

Getting paid for this work is not a goal but I do know some that are doing well. A friend does fantasy at 3-4 books annually. He is making over $100k a year but churns them out, his return readers are the core of his income.

My new one is done just editing, takes forever.

I think some sex stuff may just be a nice distraction. Different kind of body count!


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## nightflameauto (Nov 29, 2021)

Man alive, since I last posted here I've had SO MANY WORDS come spilling out of my keyboard. And have headed back to book 1 to tighten things up and add in some relevant stuff that came up later on.

I'm thinking I'm about two weeks out from handing off copies of book 1 to my beta readers. The wife counts as alpha reader and beta reader. She's cracking up at some of the antics in book three's rough draft, so I at least have an audience of one for it. LOL.

The line that threw her off the deep end was a twelve year old girl telling one of her two moms, "Do I have to sign you up for sexual awareness class again, mom?" 

The word "again" was what threw wifey off the deep end.

She was lecturing her mom about hitting on off-worlders in let's say a less than relaxed way and she (daughter) caught her and started ripping her a new one because she likes these people as friends. According to the wife, it's the most comedic moment I've ever played straight in anything I've ever written. Firing on all cylinders for that moment I guess. LOL.


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## Bevo (Nov 30, 2021)

Awesome, if you want me to read and provide edit help I would be happy to.

I have been using an app called Papyrus to help pre edit then to edit after. 
My method is just write and not worry about anything, next clean it up then a last time to perfect it.
Not easy!


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## nightflameauto (Nov 30, 2021)

Bevo said:


> Awesome, if you want me to read and provide edit help I would be happy to.
> 
> I have been using an app called Papyrus to help pre edit then to edit after.
> My method is just write and not worry about anything, next clean it up then a last time to perfect it.
> Not easy!


Pretty close to my method.

Step 1 - brain dump, whatever happens happens.
Step 2 - re-read sections and start laying down foreshadowing in snippets
Step 3 - full re-write taking the good from the first draft along for the ride
Step 4 - re-read for spelling/grammar fixes

After that it's my beta group. Right now that's five people and they usually do a pretty decent job of it. Dunno if I'll want anyone else after that or if I'll just start tossing it out there. I'm thinking real seriously I may serialize it and post it somewhere on a weekly or monthly basis once I get a big enough backlog of "episodes" to be sure I have some cushion for forward momentum.


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## Bevo (Dec 1, 2021)

Nice, you have it sorted out.

I looked into professional editing and damn, $6000Cdn for 300 pages of my e book..
My take is to learn this craft, get better, keep releasing. Once I have a good series I will edit the first through last and re- release. If no one really reads your not giving away anything.


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## nightflameauto (Dec 1, 2021)

Bevo said:


> Nice, you have it sorted out.
> 
> I looked into professional editing and damn, $6000Cdn for 300 pages of my e book..
> My take is to learn this craft, get better, keep releasing. Once I have a good series I will edit the first through last and re- release. If no one really reads your not giving away anything.


Yeah, I looked at pro editing and typesetting and for my first in the series, around 175 pages, it was going to be nearly twelve grand from my draft to printed copies, with a minimum order of twenty-five. Or I can learn to do that crap myself and get a single copy for $99 with diminishing prices as you order more. $600 to set up print on demand.

I'm thinking the chances of having a bound copy are right out the window unless I find a way to make money from electronic copies. I ain't got the money to do this professionally, and no traditional publisher is gonna touch my gore fest, cram everything together, references from everywhere stories. So I write it for me and my buds, and if I find a way to make a few bucks later, cool. If not, at least it's written.


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## Bevo (Dec 7, 2021)

Agree 100%!

takes longer and has a learning curve but worth it!


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## nightflameauto (Dec 9, 2021)

Book One has gone through two re-writes and two full editing passes. Plus a re-read to make sure I have my tenses and proper titles used correctly. Then another day setting up my "compile" (in Scrivener) to put my headings in the right places for chapters/sections.

And it's off to beta land as of last night.

All this as I'm writing three more books (separate plot lines that eventually re-converge) in rough draft shape and have started the re-write / edit process on book two. I need every day to have double the hours it has.


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