# Are sub drops the new breakdowns?



## matty2fatty (Oct 15, 2009)

So I'm listening to an album by Winds of Plague for the first time. Its pretty good stuff overall, a little derivative but still pretty well executed....except for one thing: 

My sub is going off like I'm listening to 'Drop it Like It's Hot.' The first time I heard sub drop in metal was I *think* on LoG's wrath, but this band has about 5 a song (although I'm pretty sure the WoP album came out first, I'm just giving refernce for my exposure).


Are we going to be subjected to nothing but sub drops now in new metal? If so, I'm putting a call out to form the first band that writes a song that features a breakdown made up of nothing but subdrops....I'll call it an 'Elephant-Break', and it will surely be more brootal than anything that has come before.....assuming you have a sub that lets you hear it. 

Thanks for listening


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## zimbloth (Oct 15, 2009)

Its pretty cheesy when bands do that often, its rarely effective and rarely reproduced live. The first time I heard it was on the first Korn album in 1994, long before Lamb of God. Bands have been doing that forever really, I doubt it will replace token breakdowns


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## matty2fatty (Oct 15, 2009)

Hm, I didn't realize Korn used them that long ago. I guess I finally got a stereo system that let me hear them, haha

And yeah, breakdowns aren't going anywhere, that post was more of a joke than anything. 

Edit:
As a side note, this is the first sign I'm getting old.....'Those new fangled kids with their subdrops and etc etc are ruining metal!'....and I'm only 26


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## zimbloth (Oct 15, 2009)

matty2fatty said:


> Hm, I didn't realize Korn used them that long ago. I guess I finally got a stereo system that let me hear them.
> 
> And yeah, breakdowns aren't going anywhere, that post was more of a joke than anything



Yeah its all over their 1st album, like in "Ball Tongue", "Lies", etc.


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## highlordmugfug (Oct 15, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> Yeah its all over their 1st album, like in "Ball Tongue", "Lies", etc.


I'll have to listen to that album with subs now. Korn was the very first thing that I listened to that was anything leaning towards remotely heavy, and the first time that I ever sought out music for myself instead of just listening to the radio (I think I was like 13or 14 when I found one of their cd's, it was follow the leader) so I guess I owe them a lot. :

The other day I bought Agorapocalypse-ANb, and a Portal (the death metal band) shirt. And I haven't listened to Korn in months. I guess my tastes have changed slightly.


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## troyguitar (Oct 15, 2009)

Am I the only one who has no idea what a "sub drop" is?


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## zimbloth (Oct 15, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> Am I the only one who has no idea what a "sub drop" is?



It's like this artificial bass explosion sound, that creates an odd effect to the rest of the mix. It's usually done for emphasis or to make simple riffs or breakdowns have more of an impact. Listen to the openign of 'Ball Tongue' by Korn. The riff starts, then when the whole band kicks into full gear you'll hear it. Chimaira used to do it a lot. It was a nu metal thing mainly, until now.


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## highlordmugfug (Oct 15, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> It's like this artificial bass explosion sound, that creates an odd effect to the rest of the mix. It's usually done for emphasis or to make simple riffs or breakdowns have more of an impact. Listen to the openign of '*Ball Tongue' by Korn.* The riff starts, then when the whole band kicks into full gear you'll hear it. Chimaira used to do it a lot. It was a nu metal thing mainly, until now.


AH, I do remember that now in that song. I never really thought about it I guess.


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## Dickicker (Oct 15, 2009)

Sub drop, BASS drop. Samething. Big booms before breakdowns


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## troyguitar (Oct 15, 2009)

Bass drop doesn't mean anything to me either. I guess I'm too old (or whatever the opposite of "nu" is... "oald"?)


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## MikeH (Oct 15, 2009)

Öld.


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## Andii (Oct 15, 2009)

I recorded a metalcore band a couple of weeks ago. They only wanted one bass drop out of 4 songs. I was proud of them. When they first mentioned it I thought we were going to be going through the songs and putting them everywhere.


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## Anthony_Jacob (Oct 16, 2009)

The sub drops are what made Korn's 1st album cool. I always called it 808 bass.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Oct 16, 2009)

The new Revocation CD has one on the entire album...it's about halfway through the title track, and is really effective and awesome, the way it's used. Sounds especially sick when turned up loud in my car


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## metaljohn (Oct 16, 2009)

In After The Burial's "Forging A Future Self", they only used them on the title track. I think it would have really only worked for that song.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Oct 16, 2009)

Anthony_Jacob said:


> The sub drops are what made Korn's 1st album cool. I always called it 808 bass.


You've got it right. It originally came from those old 808 drum machines.


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## Vstro (Oct 16, 2009)

Metalcore bands on the local levels have been overusing them for years now. I think there was a steak where i saw at least 2 local bands a night use them every night for 2 weeks while I was on tour. It's not even the fact that so many people use them that bothers me, its the lack of taste they use with them. Done in moderation though I think it adds to a CD or performance.


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 16, 2009)

Doesn't Devin Townsend use these all the time? I know at the end of the track "War" he samples some bass booms from a Wildhearts album he helped write. You can hear them allover the place in "Love?" by SYL too.

However, Devin Townsend and Snoop Dogg > metalcore, hardcore and nu metal.


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## Harry (Oct 16, 2009)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> The new Revocation CD has one on the entire album...it's about halfway through the title track, and is really effective and awesome, the way it's used. Sounds especially sick when turned up loud in my car



Interesting.
I've been thinking of picking up this album, I liked their debut.


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## Luuk (Oct 16, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Doesn't Devin Townsend use these all the time? I know at the end of the track "War" he samples some bass booms from a Wildhearts album he helped write. You can hear them allover the place in "Love?" by SYL too.
> 
> However, Devin Townsend and Snoop Dogg > metalcore, hardcore and nu metal.



I was thinking of Devin aswell. He used it on Ziltoid too..


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## right_to_rage (Oct 16, 2009)

For those who need definition, a 'bass drop' is when a hollow pitch slides down at a very low frequency, perhaps simulating the fall of an object with weight for transitional purposes. Other adjectives would be to scoop, gliss-out, dive bomb, or drop into (the musical gesture of jumping).


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## jymellis (Oct 16, 2009)

mushroomhead does it also.


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## Nats (Oct 16, 2009)

it can be pretty obnoxious. on korn's first album it worked pretty well. but the other day i was listening to Suffocation's Pierced from Within in my car and there's a few in there in the middle of the song that i thought was gonna explode my speakers. it's really obnoxious. never noticed it on headphones or computer speakers


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## SirToastalot (Oct 16, 2009)

Yeah, Devin really used them effectively on Alien. 

Having breakdowns/sub-drops on constantly is not the path to heaviness, unfortunately repetition and copy-cat behaviour is prevalent within these trends.

Contrast is the key here, using a breakdown/bass drop after a fast riffing section or at a key moment on a song will do great things dynamically.

Didn't Suffocation have some TR-808 drops on 'Pierced from Within'?


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## Nats (Oct 16, 2009)

SirToastalot said:


> Didn't Suffocation have some TR-808 drops on 'Pierced from Within'?



yes, see my post above


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## abysmalrites (Oct 16, 2009)

SirToastalot said:


> Yeah, Devin really used them effectively on Alien.
> 
> Having breakdowns/sub-drops on constantly is not the path to heaviness, unfortunately repetition and copy-cat behaviour is prevalent within these trends.
> 
> ...



I agree with you. My project band was using a shitload of techno breaks that could have been labelled as some weirdo bass drops. I got tired of the repetition, so I threw out the idea for future songs.

Origin effectively uses bass drops before really fast riffs (see Reciprocal, before the sweeps). It's hard to hear on computer speakers and stuff, but if you're in a car with a decent system, eq your bass a bit higher and you'll hear that.


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## PnKnG (Oct 16, 2009)

I still don't really understand what a sub drop is. 
Is it stuff like this:

Around 4:00 in the song:


the intro of this:


around 1:34 in this:


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## skeeballcore (Oct 16, 2009)

Saw Fear Factory back in the 90's after "Obsolete" came out. They liked to use the sub-drop live too. With the right sound system it would absolutely kill the audience. It was awesome. 

My old band is guilty of it in one song, but I think we used it in a decent context though.


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## matty2fatty (Oct 16, 2009)

I've been missing out apparently. I've listened to most, if not all of the above mentioned albums and never ever noticed any bass drops, I guess its just been that I listen mostly on headphones and shitty speakers. 

The poster that talked about using it live is right though, that would sound/feel pretty killer


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## SerratedSkies (Oct 16, 2009)

Fell Silent and Protest the Hero are easily the two best at adding in perfectly timed bass drops. My band put a shit load all over my demo, and now that I think of it, we need MOAR! MOAR! I'm not a fan of breakdowns, but bass drops... that's what's good.


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## asmegin_slayer (Oct 16, 2009)

I thought Origins album "echoes of decimation" used it really well. It can sound explosive if its done right.


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## Mattayus (Oct 16, 2009)

matty2fatty said:


> I've been missing out apparently. I've listened to most, if not all of the above mentioned albums and never ever noticed any bass drops, I guess its just been that I listen mostly on headphones and shitty speakers.



Yeah man the term "sub bass" is just the name given to the group of frequencies that fall below the threshold of the human register, so it's "felt" more than it's "heard", although obviously the top end of it is still just about audible. It's only becoming more common these days thanks to the simple evolution of sound systems. Most stereos, headphones, car radios, whatever will have a sub woofer, which is why I guess the use of sub bass has become more frequent in recent years.

I think it's actually pretty cool. I mean, it's just another tool to signify heaviness, and if used correctly, and not obnoxiously, and not every 2 seconds, then it can do wonders for a song's dynamics.

I put one in my band's latest track -here- at around the 2:19 mark.

Quite a lot of people ask me to throw one or two into their songs when I'm mixing their work, and I haven't used one yet where it didn't sound badass  But unfortunately, like everything else even slightly music related - it's open to abuse and overuse.


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## RenegadeDave (Oct 16, 2009)

LOG used it live, and since I normally listen to them in my car or at my desk (neither having subs) I didn't realize what I was missing. It was freaking epic in their breakdowns. I don't like breakdowns typically, but LOG has the formula right.


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## Meldville (Oct 16, 2009)

Lots of bands have been using them for years. They're used a lot on Cephalic Carnage's Lucid Interval album. But the trend of using them in juggajiggawugga breakdowns isn't new, early 00's metalcore bands did it all the time too. It's something that can be used for great emphasis when used correctly, but like most aspects of musical trends, gets worn on by overuse.


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## shaneroo (Oct 16, 2009)

Anthony_Jacob said:


> The sub drops are what made Korn's 1st album cool. I always called it 808 bass.



it is an 808.... korn uses variations of them live as well...... nothing like being on stage feeling that fucker go off.... it's enormous!


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## shaneroo (Oct 16, 2009)

PnKnG said:


> I still don't really understand what a sub drop is.
> Is it stuff like this:
> 
> Around 4:00 in the song:
> ...




starts at 16 seconds.... and yes, you need to crank your speakers, or just have speakers with low end very prominent.

the sub-bass-drop-808 thing, or whatever you want to call it, is better felt, than heard.
this is why with many rap records, people will have them blasting so loud in their cars...... more for the feeling of the sound, rather than sound itself. it's like sonic booms or something.


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## DaveCarter (Oct 16, 2009)

Ah 808 bass drops, I love these, my female-fronted symphonic metal band uses them a fair bit. Ive noticed a lot of bands using them live as well, once you know what you're listening for its impossible to miss them! You'll need decent speakers to hear them on recordings though, and ideally a sub too. 

Here are some good examples:


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## Labrie (Oct 16, 2009)

I always loved hearing these in the outro to A New Beginning by Threat Signal.


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## Anthony_Jacob (Oct 16, 2009)

Definitely need a subwoofer to get into it. They can go unnoticed without one.


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## Cadavuh (Oct 17, 2009)

Yea ive never even heard this term before and i dont hear anything in any of the songs posted


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## zimbloth (Oct 17, 2009)

Cadavuh said:


> Yea ive never even heard this term before and i dont hear anything in any of the songs posted



Then your speakers are lacking a bit I guess. Not all sound systems can produce frequencies that low. You need a decent subwoofer or nice headphones. It's not a big deal, you're not missing much. It can be a cool effect once in a while though.


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## Xanithon (Oct 17, 2009)

I think i hear it in After the Burial's "Cursing Akenatan" on some occasions - specially when the riff gets real brutal after the intro - i hear it on the live video of them playing it.


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 17, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> Then your speakers are lacking a bit I guess. Not all sound systems can produce frequencies that low. You need a decent subwoofer or nice headphones. It's not a big deal, you're not missing much. It can be a cool effect once in a while though.



I dunno about not missing much - the effect of the 808 drop is impressive but I agree that it is not integral to any song, except Aphex Twin music, except he builds song's out of them instead of just using them to punctuate things. However, the way I see it, if you can't hear them with your current sound sytem, upgrade immediately. I hate listening to music on crap speakers, like ipod earphones and poor pc sound systems. They cut so much of the bass and low mids, the end result sound awful. Hearing music on a good sound system with a sub or high quality headphones is the only way to listen to it imo.


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## Pauly (Oct 17, 2009)

2:27.

Probably one at the start too but I'm listening on my laptop speakers. I thought of the 2:27 one as soon as I saw the thread title, it always made my mate's car speakers buzz haha.


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## Jason (Oct 17, 2009)

Yeah the first I head an 808 in rock or metal was the intro to Blind by Korn. you can see David hit it in the intro. Then Mudvayne I heard it next.. .After that I stopped paying attention.


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## Tyrant (Oct 17, 2009)

I dont know if its been mentioned but there is a massive one in FFAF`s "For less".


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## Crometeef (Oct 17, 2009)

is this one at 1:55? i always thought it was some fancy synth.


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## ChaNce (Oct 18, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> I dunno about not missing much - the effect of the 808 drop is impressive but I agree that it is not integral to any song, except Aphex Twin music, except he builds song's out of them instead of just using them to punctuate things. However, the way I see it, if you can't hear them with your current sound sytem, upgrade immediately. I hate listening to music on crap speakers, like ipod earphones and poor pc sound systems. They cut so much of the bass and low mids, the end result sound awful. Hearing music on a good sound system with a sub or high quality headphones is the only way to listen to it imo.



Unfortunately, we are losing a generation to the MP3:


Kids prefer sound of MP3 to CD


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## DaveCarter (Oct 18, 2009)

Crometeef said:


> is this one at 1:55? i always thought it was some fancy synth.



Yup, thats a bass drop


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## gaunten (Oct 24, 2009)

first time I heard subdrops was when I saw Lamb of god live the first time, around 2006 or so (I think they'd just released whatever record redneck is on) and I thought it was pretty awesome. after that I've heard some on devin townsends stuff. both ziltoid, DTB and Syl I think


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 24, 2009)

I'd say they are the new breakdown, because just like breakdowns, they used to be cool and effective because you'd hear one maybe every couple of songs and it was heavy as fuck, then a bunch of stupid bree-core bands got a hold of them, and used them WAY too much. 



zimbloth said:


> Its pretty cheesy when bands do that often, its rarely effective and rarely reproduced live. The first time I heard it was on the first Korn album in 1994, long before Lamb of God. Bands have been doing that forever really, I doubt it will replace token breakdowns



They're reproduced live way too much dude. I went to Summer Slaughter in Montreal, and EACH BAND spent a couple minutes sound checking their bass drops. I'm not even kidding, there were no instruments playing, and the bass drop triggered like 15 times while they adjusted EQ, etc. Then when one breecore band took the stage one after another, it was bass drop city.


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## Anthony (Oct 24, 2009)

Yeah, because there were a ton of breecore bands on Summer Slaughter's line up this year...


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## DaveCarter (Oct 24, 2009)

If anyone wants to hear what a bassdrop sounds like in isolation (or close enough) check out this intro:



You can see them being triggered at 0:33 and 0:38 

If you cant hear much happening, then you need better speakers/headphones


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## Arteriorrhexis (Oct 24, 2009)

Anthony said:


> Yeah, because there were a ton of breecore bands on Summer Slaughter's line up this year...



What breecore bands were on summer slaughter?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 24, 2009)

Anthony said:


> Yeah, because there were a ton of breecore bands on Summer Slaughter's line up this year...





There were. I don't know which Summer Slaughter you went to


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## Metal Ken (Oct 24, 2009)

Arteriorrhexis said:


> What breecore bands were on summer slaughter?



Generally all the local opening bands at every show


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 24, 2009)

Arteriorrhexis said:


> What breecore bands were on summer slaughter?



After the Burial (After the Breakdown is what I like to call them)
Winds of Plague (Not so much breeing, just really cheesy breakdowns ALL THE TIME)
Born of Osiris (I like about 10 seconds of each of their songs before they fuck it up with breakdowns)


There were more on the Montreal date, but that's all that Wikipedia is pulling up for the Canadian leg of the Summer Slaughter tour. I can't remember specifically besides those because I got really bored and drank beer whilst holding a table for Abhorred and I while he and his woman went to get food


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## Arteriorrhexis (Oct 24, 2009)

None of those bands actually 'bree' though...
So wouldn't that cut the from the genre?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 24, 2009)

It's still core. It's just a derogatory term I use for core bands.


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## Jogeta (Oct 24, 2009)

Subdrops can really give a breakdown some chunk!
The best use I've heard so far is:

Chimaira - The Disappearing Sun

2.23 - 2.40

"I WILL STAB YOU IN THE [email protected]~KING BACK" then BOOOOOOOOOOM \m/


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 24, 2009)

I just laugh at it like with every other breecore trend.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Oct 24, 2009)

It just pisses me off though because I can't listen to a good band that uses a breakdown once in awhile without cringing and worrying that it's going to continue for the rest of the CD


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 24, 2009)

ChaNce said:


> Unfortunately, we are losing a generation to the MP3:
> 
> 
> Kids prefer sound of MP3 to CD





Dear god


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 24, 2009)

^Complete asininity.


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## Marv Attaxx (Oct 24, 2009)

Here's another good example of single bassdrops:


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## MF_Kitten (Oct 24, 2009)

Adam Of Angels said:


> ^Complete asininity.



but as the article says, it's just like the guys who prefer vinyl. it's a shitty medium, yet some people just really enjoy it more than digital mediums.

i have to say though, if your band has a sub-par mix, you can bury the lack of finesse with mp3 compression and have it sound better than it really is. i call it the myspace syndrome.

also, sometimes a mix that has been high and low passed, so that it lacks the highest and lowest frequencies, it can sound like it's supposed to be real good, but the "compression" or "degradation" is keeping it back, giving you the illusion that you're hearing greatness being held back, instead of crap being crap.

it's sad how the mp3 thing is messing with the heads of youngsters like that. i remember when i used to download mp3s from kazaa and stuff, and it would be so heavily compressed that bass and cymbals would translate as this garbled whistling sound, almost sounding like the wind. it's the result of really heavy compression.

also, in the early days of the internet, most video clips would have audio so compressed that you just heard this whistling windy garble, with a video playing over it, barely hearing any correlation between the two


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 24, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> also, in the early days of the internet, most video clips would have audio so compressed that you just heard this whistling windy garble, with a video playing over it, barely hearing any correlation between the two



What do you mean in the "early days"? Thats all I hear when I listen to Lamb of God


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## shaneroo (Oct 24, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> but as the article says, it's just like the guys who prefer vinyl. it's a shitty medium, yet some people just really enjoy it more than digital mediums.
> 
> i have to say though, if your band has a sub-par mix, you can bury the lack of finesse with mp3 compression and have it sound better than it really is. i call it the myspace syndrome.
> 
> ...


great post 
interesting to listen to some recording from the 70's and early 80's... 
some of the most crisp and clear recording i've ever heard..... this of course is before the use of protools and such.


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## JoshuaLogan (Oct 24, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> but as the article says, it's just like the guys who prefer vinyl. it's a shitty medium, yet some people just really enjoy it more than digital mediums.
> 
> i have to say though, if your band has a sub-par mix, you can bury the lack of finesse with mp3 compression and have it sound better than it really is. i call it the myspace syndrome.
> 
> ...



yeah, but mp3s at a bitrate of 320 is not noticeably different from the original tracks to most peoples' ears. the problem is shitty 160 bit or below rips...


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 24, 2009)

No.

[/thread]


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## All_¥our_Bass (Oct 24, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Dear god



I hate the sound of mp3s with a bit rate lower than 192.
I'm no audiophile, but I can tell the difference and prefer high quality audio when I can get it.


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## lefty robb (Oct 24, 2009)

Never really quite knew what they were called, but I love how Devin uses them, its less apparent than most songs it seems though.

correctly me if I'm wrong, but there's a whole bunch in Almost Again.


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## Ravelle17 (Jan 11, 2010)

(2:30) destroys my car's (pretty damn good) speakers. Unfortunately it doesn't come across nearly as well on this video...


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## Andii (Jan 11, 2010)

One thing I've noticed is that youtube videos dont deliver sub bass. I won't include a video for that reason. 

MVP by Despised Icon has the most epic bass drops. The way they sit and how they sweep is just perfect. On top of that they are used in really well chosen spots.


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## Wookieslayer (Jan 11, 2010)

808 sub drops are cool when they're used in the right time... but it is def true that new core bands just overuse them... 

When I saw Whitechapel last year at California Metal fest, I couldn't believe how many times they triggered 808s for almost every breakdown of every song! I was pretty pissed because most of the fans there were scene kids trying to be kewl and dance  I enjoyed their music off their CDs but was heartedly disappointed after seeing them overuse 808s and get revered so much by these poser fans... I know the fans shouldn't change the band for me but it didn't help the live experience when I saw them. Still looking forward to the new album tho


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## jjjsssxxx (Jan 12, 2010)

I remember thinking these were cool several years ago. Some people probably still use them well, but by the time I figured out how to do it, they were pretty common place so I doubt I'll use one on my own recordings except as a joke. I am still a sucker for using a huge boomy reverb on a kick drum to emphasize a strong hit now and then, as I did on one track of my band's album that we just finished.


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## El Caco (Jan 12, 2010)

I love bass, it's safe to say that I don't think bass can be overused considering I own CD's that are nothing but bass  I can't listen to them at the moment unfortunately, it has been awhile since I had a decent system.


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## Koshchei (Jan 12, 2010)

matty2fatty said:


> As a side note, this is the first sign I'm getting old.....'Those new fangled kids with their subdrops and etc etc are ruining metal!'....and I'm only 26



Welcome to the club. I've been saying this since the mid 90s.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 12, 2010)

Sub drops are used quite liberally but sensibly on Divinity - The Singularity, it comes highly recommended.


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## FretWizard88 (Jan 12, 2010)

When I heard Winds of Plague for the first time I cried because of how horrible those subdrops sounded. I think it is pathetic that a band has to fill up space in a song with such useless growling and chugging. I guess one subdrop throughout the CD is okay, but WoP do it like it is going out of style.


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## Troegenator (Jan 12, 2010)

zimbloth said:


> Yeah its all over their 1st album, like in... "Lies"



Their first album was the only one that i ever gave a shit about, i remember listening to the intro to that song and turning my stereo up damn near as loud as it would go. I think that "sub drop" as you guys call them, was very tastefully done in "Lies". It didnt seem forced and it wasnt excessive.


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## matty2fatty (Jan 12, 2010)

FretWizard88 said:


> When I heard Winds of Plague for the first time I cried because of how horrible those subdrops sounded. I think it is pathetic that a band has to fill up space in a song with such useless growling and chugging. I guess one subdrop throughout the CD is okay, but WoP do it like it is going out of style.


 
That's what I was listening to when I created this thread (by the way, who resurrected this one from the grave?). I've actually come to like them though since then, The Great Stone War was a big improvement over their first album.


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## Luppin (Jan 12, 2010)

Wookieslayer said:


> I was pretty pissed because most of the fans there were scene kids trying to be kewl and dance  I enjoyed their music off their CDs but was heartedly disappointed after seeing them overuse 808s and get revered so much by these poser fans...


 
So you were getting pissed because there were kids who were there for the exact same reason as you, and they were trying to enjoy themselves? And how are those kids poser fans? They obviously are pretty into them if they're at a show, risking bodily injury, and pouring out everything that they've got on the floor. You may not approve of kids "dancing" but typical when you hear music you dance or at least act out in some form, it might not be a mass of sweaty kids pushing into each other aimlessly or swinging their head for a half hour but those "poser fans" are expressing however they feel as best as they can. Besides, you went and saw them once and were "disappointed" just by what other people were doing there, stop being such a tool and listen to music for the music instead of caring about the other people who listen to it.


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## Wookieslayer (Jan 13, 2010)

Luppin, yeah you are right I should not be pissed at them for doing their thing and hardcore dancing but it doesn't change the fact that seeing them live where breakdown after breakdown occurred with an 808 every time got me annoyed and disappointed. 

I was at a death metal show not a hardcore one and being kicked by hardcore kids disrupted my experience. Obviously I pushed them back or moved to get around them but they were still annoying. 

One could always argue that of course Whitechapel is "deathcore" and has hardcore elements, but the bottom line is that I was disappointed in their act because there were so many 808 bass drops added to the live show to what seemed to be only thrown in there to appease the dancers while not adding to the music. Overusing 808s is just dumb and takes away from original effect IMO. 

Maybe I'm over-exaggerating the number of times there were bass drops but it was enough for me to take notice. At the time I was like, "holy shit! another bass drop wtf, why do they need them for almost every breakdown? to make it seem kewl and brutalz for these 'hardcore' fans? wow, this is stupid and feels fake like hot topic." 

Maybe I was so pissed because I was seeing them alongside legends like Suffocation and Carcass, or maybe I will see them at some future show and be blown away by their performance. I just went into seeing them with high expectations and was disappointed. However, I still enjoy their music and deathcore for that matter, and from the sounds of the preproduction videos, the new album will kick ass.. /end rant


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## Suprise_dummer (Feb 5, 2010)

despised icon... their bass drops are out of the fucking world
saw them last night at the crazy donkey (long island) and when they do it, it was SO GODDAMN LOUD, it would shake the room and it was the most epic fucking thing... however i dont know if it was a drum moduel or a bass sweep... i want to find out though


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## JJ Rodriguez (Feb 5, 2010)

Luppin said:


> So you were getting pissed because there were kids who were there for the exact same reason as you, and they were trying to enjoy themselves? And how are those kids poser fans? They obviously are pretty into them if they're at a show, risking bodily injury, and pouring out everything that they've got on the floor. You may not approve of kids "dancing" but typical when you hear music you dance or at least act out in some form, it might not be a mass of sweaty kids pushing into each other aimlessly or swinging their head for a half hour but those "poser fans" are expressing however they feel as best as they can. Besides, you went and saw them once and were "disappointed" just by what other people were doing there, stop being such a tool and listen to music for the music instead of caring about the other people who listen to it.



Yeah, because having some dipshit kid in girl pants come within an inch of kicking my face is something that is completely reasonable.

The fact you're trying to justify the most retarded thing ever makes it pretty evident you must be one of them 

For what it's worth, I think moshing in itself is kind of dumb, just not on the level that side stepping and doing spin kicks is.


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## xiphoscesar (Feb 5, 2010)

Suprise_dummer said:


> despised icon... their bass drops are out of the fucking world
> saw them last night at the crazy donkey (long island) and when they do it, it was SO GODDAMN LOUD, it would shake the room and it was the most epic fucking thing... however i dont know if it was a drum moduel or a bass sweep... i want to find out though


 
yea despised icon are pretty fuckin sick 
the drummer hits like a little pad in the beginning of the video





i like how they use it around the breakdown




EDIT: i agree with him ^


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## Luppin (Feb 7, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Yeah, because having some dipshit kid in girl pants come within an inch of kicking my face is something that is completely reasonable.
> 
> The fact you're trying to justify the most retarded thing ever makes it pretty evident you must be one of them
> 
> For what it's worth, I think moshing in itself is kind of dumb, just not on the level that side stepping and doing spin kicks is.


 

I'm not trying to justify anything, I was just pointing out that it's stupid to get so upset about how people react to music when music is something to be enjoyed and not everyone is going to stand still with a scowl on throwing up metal horns for a half hour.

And no I'm not some scene kid who flails around and does butterfly kicks trying to show off all his k3wl dance movez, it just gets annoying to see how much shit-talking goes on whenever the term "hardcore" gets brought up when there's legitamitely good bands who are labeled (but don't necessarily identify) as such.


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## Wookieslayer (Feb 7, 2010)

if you read my 2nd post Luppin, i wasnt as mad that whitechapel was being associated with "hardcore," more so the overuse of 808 sub drops. the scene kids just were the last straw to detract from my experience


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## Demiurge (Feb 7, 2010)

I thought that the 128-note, 3-second guitar fill of random notes that sounds like an Atari 2600 getting raped was the new breakdown.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Feb 7, 2010)

I have a sub woofer and I still cant find these sub drops


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## xiphoscesar (Feb 7, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> I have a sub woofer and I still cant find these sub drops


 
dats really weird 
my dad's truck has the stock system in it but i can still hear the "subdrops"


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## JJ Rodriguez (Feb 7, 2010)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> I have a sub woofer and I still cant find these sub drops




You must just not know what to listen for then, doesn't take a crazy good stereo to hear them.


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## Scar Symmetry (Feb 7, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> No.
> 
> [/thread]



Neg for this? Really? Pathetic


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## techcoreriffman (Feb 8, 2010)

To the people arguing about hardcore dancing: I agree with wookie. Hardcore dancing is a way of "expressing" yourself, sure. But when you "express" yourself into my face, me and you are going to have a fucking problem. THAT is the reason that I don't like hardcore dancing.

I was at a show a couple weeks ago, and a hardcore dancer broke my nose. Needless to say, after the show, him and I got into a fight, and I broke his nose back. And probably his eye-socket. This guy "expressing" himself, pretty much ruined my show. I couldn't headbang, mosh or really do much of anything. I had a huge headache, and a bloody nose.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Feb 8, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> You must just not know what to listen for then, doesn't take a crazy good stereo to hear them.



I guess not 

Mind spoon feeding?


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