# No-one plays guitar anymore?



## Vyn (Feb 12, 2018)

From memory there was a thread on this but I'll be damned if I can remember where the hell it was.

When I was growing up, through school we had compulsory music classes in first year high. Guitar was a massively popular instrument and more often than not there wasn't enough to go around so the options were either share or play sax or something else. Most of those would then go on to choose music as an elective further on through high school and by the time final year hit, I'd say there would have been around 65-70% retention overall for guitar alone, not including music in general. The standard as well of school bands (ALL of them - rock, jazz, big band, concert band etc) was pretty killer, you would struggle to pick a bad one.

Fast forward to now. Schools are doing cross-school bands to try and get numbers, music departments are being underfunded as a result in the decline of numbers (which just ends up being a massive feedback loop). I recently caught up with my local high school and the music classes are tiny in comparison to what they used to be. The standard of playing seems to have dropped as well.

What happened? Has our lovely social media/instant gratification binge killed people's desires to spend time and effort to progress in learning something or is it just not 'cool' to play music anymore?


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 12, 2018)

People are just as into music, it's just fewer people are learning guitar specifically. 

Virtual instruments are the future. Every year they get better sounding, easier to use and program, cheaper to obtain and so on. 

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. There will always be great, guitar oriented music in our lifetime.


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## InHiding (Feb 12, 2018)

Yeah but a guitar player looks cool, a virtual instrument player looks like horseshit


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## Veldar (Feb 12, 2018)

Ableton is the new Guitar


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## Avedas (Feb 12, 2018)

I see kids playing guitar all the time. Guitar shops are full of younger people. Booking a studio practice space is a nightmare because there are so many people, and the waiting rooms are always full. But that's probably because Japan is stuck in the 80s and rock music is still cool.


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## iamaom (Feb 12, 2018)

Wow Australian schools sound pretty badass, in my school all we had was a concert band so you had a wide choice of woodwind or brass instruments. Sitting behind first year trumpets was not fun. Not sure about other countries and other states, but in texas football is king and every high school wants the biggest and baddest stadiums, manned with the most lavish and hardcore marching band, so band ends up being pretty competitive and popular around here.

The problem with guitar is that it just isn't popular anymore. All of the pop music is digital based, and all the kids in my high school (8 years ago, but I'm sure its the same) wanted was to learn FL studio so they can make Kanye beats and rap about their totally-existent-16-year-old-middle-class-white-boy "street cred". Guitar will go the way of the violin or piano or saxophone, still around but just in the background. Who knows maybe when developing areas like Africa really get into the swing of the internet a new generation re-ignite the guitar flame.


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## Chokey Chicken (Feb 12, 2018)

Music programs in general have taken a dump. Largely due to budget. Even when it was more popular, classes aimed at guitar would still only truly benefit few people. 

I try not to worry myself too much what others do. I enjoy guitar so I play it.


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## JohnIce (Feb 12, 2018)

Kids are making music by the truckloads, on iPhones. I think music education is just ignoring where music making has been going since the DAW revolution in the last 10-15 years, and sleeping on the production side of things. Want to educate kids interested in music? Put 10 macbooks with headphones in a classroom and teach how a hoover bass is made. Teach them the pros and cons of a Minimoog vs. Serum, and what an LFO does. That's what they actually want to know. Don't buy another container of dusty nylon strings and tubas, then close down music education for "lack of interest". Teach a man to play guitar and he will play for a day, teach a man to quantize and melodyne and he will play every damn instrument he can find.

I listen almost entirely to current pop/alternative music, and there is soooo much guitar everywhere. It's just used by producer-type artists for sound design within a DAW, as it's a great way to add life to an entirely midi-based soundscape. It's less of a "hero" instrument anymore though. I think the guitar is used more in contexts like these today:



Then there's the absolute celebration of guitar/guitarish instruments that is Despacito, the most viewed video on Youtube:


Then there's the other side of the discussion, which is the acoustic guitar. Still the reigning king of portable instruments, people like Ed Sheeran and the huge business that is youtube covers show very clearly that the acoustic isn't going anywhere, possibly more popular now than 10 years ago.

So yeah, 80's pentatonic hot shot shred isn't as wanted anymore. Good riddance. Doesn't mean the guitar has gone anywhere or that kids aren't making music. It's a shame that the kids have to suffer because music education isn't keeping up, though.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 12, 2018)

One of biggest guitar/music shops here is closing down soon and so many music schools have already shut down. 

Youtube and Guitar Hero were the best things to happen to guitar IMO. It encouraged so many people to take up the instrument. It needs another revival like that.


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## Rawkmann (Feb 12, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> So yeah, 80's pentatonic hot shot shred isn't as wanted anymore. Good riddance.



Speak for Yourself, that’s exactly the kind of stuff I still want to hear.


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## Metropolis (Feb 12, 2018)

I just realized that people born in late 80's/early 90's could be the last ones who grabbed guitar, because they were almost only hearing the music, or just seeing someone play. Not because of Guitar Hero or Youtube.

Lot of my friends played or owned some kind of guitar when we were at our early teens. Many of them just stopped doing that and lost intrest for music in more serious way. I'm 27 years old now, and still doing it.


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## Demiurge (Feb 12, 2018)

Well goodness, for the longest time I've been hearing that there's too many bands and too much music to compete with.


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## fps (Feb 12, 2018)

It's just a pity that music made on computers often encourages less interesting composition than a group of people working together, even as it encourages greater tonal variety and arrangement possibilities.


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## Church2224 (Feb 12, 2018)

Maybe it is just where I live and how I interact with musicians in my area, plus my massive guitar obsession, but I still see quite a few people playing. I have seen plenty of people still into guitar in my area. One of my best friends is a guitar teacher and his schedule is constantly booked up with people wanting lessons, I see people on campus walking around with guitar cases and playing. Hell I will have my guitar with me at times and people are always asking questions about it. We have two of those "School of Rock" locations in my area that are doing well and I talked to the people in a new music shop the other day and they are doing quite well. On the weekends I go into my local GC for lessons and it almost always busy. 

Not only that, but I went to two clinics back in September/October, one with Misha Mansoor and one with Marc Holcomb, and there were people from all ages there, quite a few of them too. Kids in their teens were oggling Marc Holcomb's PRS Private stock and Misha's Jacksons. Kids were asking questions about band management, composition, guitar tastes, ect. 

I think the guitar/ guitar player market, like a lot of markets have, is just coming out og a slump and is going to start a resurgence again. Millenials are starting to make good money to the point they have disposable income and will be buying more higher end guitars. Plus they are having children and will pass their interests to kids. Custom guitar companies like PRS, Schecter, Jackson and ESP are having back orders like crazy these days. I mean, it is a 12 month wait right now to get a PRS Custom 24 and Jackson is only taking Custom Select orders on a special basis because they have so many work orders. Demand is still there. Gibson is not doing as well but that's....Gibson.

We are also just seeing more improved economic activity on the market scale again. If we can get better economic activity, I think the guitar market will be doing just fine. 

Give it time. We have seen this before, the market will bounce back.


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## GuitarBizarre (Feb 12, 2018)

Rawkmann said:


> Speak for Yourself, that’s exactly the kind of stuff I still want to hear.


Then, fortunately for you, there is a 30+ year wealth of people doing it for you to pick through. You could sit for years and still find yourself with a mountain of music to listen to, but, and lets be quite frank about this - it's a style of music to which there is precious little left to add, and the unexplored territory has shrunk to almost nothing.

It's just not going to be big again. Just like Motown is never going to be big again, or Garage Rock, or Hair Metal. No matter how much it gets sampled or how many "revivals" are put about in the music press, if that style of music is going to be popular again, it's going to be in a different form, not a throwback, but a reimagining. 

Steel Panther are Hair Metal, but really, they're a parody band. 
The Hives are Garage Rock, but really, they're doing it through the lens of Pop-Punk, with a dash of James Brown showmanship thrown in.
Motown is still motown, but where do you hear it today? Hip-Hop samples and Cee Lo Green records, and throwbacks in pop singles, mixed in with everything else. 

They're great in their own rights, and in forms old and new, but they're not coming back, they're not the same as they used to be, and that's a *damn good thing *- there's nothing sadder than musicians or music fans who are just stuck in place, running on a treadmill of whatever 10 years of their lives or careers were most kind to them.

Guitar is just the same. Every established era of guitar playing you can think of is dead, but constituent parts of them all are alive and well, and showing up whereever you care to look for them.


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## Rawkmann (Feb 12, 2018)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Then, fortunately for you, there is a 30+ year wealth of people doing it for you to pick through. You could sit for years and still find yourself with a mountain of music to listen to, but, and lets be quite frank about this - it's a style of music to which there is precious little left to add, and the unexplored territory has shrunk to almost nothing.



Maybe that's why I've been listening to a ton of J-Rock and Metal lately, those guys seem to be good at taking cues from the old school shred guys and putting a 'modern' spin on it. I don't consider myself to be 'stuck in the past' or anything because I still get off on hearing some tasty pentatonic licks, but I do like to hear new music instead of listening to the classics for the rest of my life. For better or worse I think we are just in the age of tons of genres of music co existing, but nothing is going to be completely dominant like it was in past generations.


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## Albake21 (Feb 12, 2018)

Surprisingly, what got me into playing guitar (besides music itself) was actually Guitar Hero back in like 2006/07. I know I'm not the only one, as I'm sure others currently in their early to mid 20's like me started for the same reason. I could bet Guitar Hero/Rock Band created many musicians and for that, I can't thank a video game enough.


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## Metropolis (Feb 12, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> Surprisingly, what got me into playing guitar (besides music itself) was actually Guitar Hero back in like 2006/07. I know I'm not the only one, as I'm sure others currently in their early to mid 20's like me started for the same reason. I could bet Guitar Hero/Rock Band created many musicians and for that, I can't thank a video game enough.



I was starting to play in something between 2004/05. When Guitar Hero came, it was everywhere. I just thinked it was really stupid to just pretending to play and push buttons of plastic guitar like controller. Like it was limiting what to really do with an instrument, so I avoided it because of that and have tested the whole thing... maybe once. I don't mean to feel better than anyone because of that, whole thing just felt pretentious to me, real thing is much better


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## Womb raider (Feb 12, 2018)

Interestingly enough, GH was what actually brought me back to playing guitar again, but not because I liked the game. I was on a multiple year hiatus from any guitar playing when the game was released (I think it was GH3 or Metallica). I remember playing the game at a party and being infuriated that I could play these songs in real life but give me a plastic guitar with 4 buttons and I just couldn't do it.
I went home that week and got my dusty guitar and gear from my parent's basement and never looked back.


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## Durtal (Feb 12, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> I listen almost entirely to current pop/alternative music, and there is soooo much guitar everywhere. It's just used by producer-type artists for sound design within a DAW, as it's a great way to add life to an entirely midi-based soundscape. It's less of a "hero" instrument anymore though. I think the guitar is used more in contexts like these today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This sounds like a dystopia. I don't want to live in your reality. Why would I want to listen to any of those songs when I could listen to something with blastbeats, riffs and shred?


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## JohnIce (Feb 12, 2018)

Durtal said:


> This sounds like a dystopia. I don't want to live in your reality. Why would I want to listen to any of those songs when I could listen to something with blastbeats, riffs and shred?



_My_ reality?  I'm just saying those songs are based around guitars and showcase how they're being used in current songs that have billions of streams. Meaning, people still play guitars, that's what the thread was asking. I'm not saying YOU have to listen to the Chainsmokers


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## nyxzz (Feb 12, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> Surprisingly, what got me into playing guitar (besides music itself) was actually Guitar Hero back in like 2006/07. I know I'm not the only one, as I'm sure others currently in their early to mid 20's like me started for the same reason. I could bet Guitar Hero/Rock Band created many musicians and for that, I can't thank a video game enough.



I remember this, I also remember FCPREMIX and being blown away by the intro because I didnt know what a delay was. I happened to start playing before that because my dad is a guitar player, but I know several people who got their start from guitar hero


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## Ebony (Feb 12, 2018)

Alot of people play guitar but very few get paid to do it. School programs are largely shaped by coorporate greed with a sprinkle of trampled idealism. The offer within the education sector will always reflect that. Why educate people for a job that doesn't exist?

Honestly, I'm surprised there is any kind of music left in primary schools. Because it's "stimulating and nourishing to kids"?. Oh please, give me a fucking break. Listening to some idiot quoting wikipedia about The Beatles/Bach and playing sloppy, out-of-tune Top 20 at half tempo on instruments that are falling apart with the odd performance in front of sobbing parents is hardly stimulating. 

And high school music-programs? Well, I have two guitarist friends that began their highschool days in music-programs. They both hated it, but especially the one with talent (he quit and went to a regular program). He outplayed all his teachers, he had 90 minutes of guitar-lessons _a week_ even though it was his _main instrument,_ and he also had to attend compulsory courses in dancing and acting because they crammed all the "artistic" classes into one (and still do as far as I know). 

I'm not saying this is the experience of everyone, but my personal view on this is pitch black. I haven't had a single positive experience with music at school, nor has any of my friends.


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## Eptaceros (Feb 12, 2018)

Both my junior and middle schools had really extensive arts and music programs, and it was such an amazing resource. 

Mostly everyone in this thread is just bringing up anecdotal accounts of how popular guitar is. This is going nowhere lol


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## Vyn (Feb 12, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> Both my junior and middle schools had really extensive arts and music programs, and it was such an amazing resource.
> 
> Mostly everyone in this thread is just bringing up anecdotal accounts of how popular guitar is. This is going nowhere lol



This is more what I'm getting at - basically what happened to the music programs in schools?

I can understand that a lot of people would have bad memories of music at highschool - I can think of a few local players who are phenomenal and hated highschool music, I can also think of an equal number that enjoyed it. 

In our case, classical finger-picking was taught primarily with the students allowed to venture out into other styles if they wished and would be supported doing so. My final was primarily classical but I also played Master of Puppets and Souls of Black for two of my assessment pieces. Having a part set curriculum and then having some freedom to move around I think was what made that particular school such a success at the time. Now there isn't really any structure, the students finish highschool, get to university level and proceed to get smashed, jaded and give up their instrument entirely.


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## QuantumCybin (Feb 12, 2018)

I was 14 when Guitar Hero 2 came out and that certainly piqued my interest in guitar and ultimately ended up in me asking my parents to get me one for my 15th birthday, I turn 25 next month and I’m still playing so I think it did have an impact on people.


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## Curt (Feb 12, 2018)

Durtal said:


> This sounds like a dystopia. I don't want to live in your reality. Why would I want to listen to any of those songs when I could listen to something with blastbeats, riffs and shred?


You *are* living in it, though.


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## MickD7 (Feb 12, 2018)

This is a discussion I’ve had a lot. It’s an interesting topic to say the least, I have 36-46 students a week depending on the programs that I work with. I started playing when I was 9 learning from Vinyl and Cassette tapes, I entered a music program at the age of 13 and started getting a formal education in Music and I was teaching at the age of 15, I’m 28 this year and I started working towards things by teaching the students I played with in ensemble classes because the head of music was horrible. I also worked in music stores for 12 years and I’ve worked with every type of guitar player that you can imagine.

3 of these are held at Music schools. Those are the ones that I have seen the potential in, I take the time to explain the importance of what the student is learning to the parent but also take the time to make sure that they encourage the students in a positive approach. Not viewing practice as a part of their homework routine and seeing it as a reward for doing math/English ect. Is a big step in the right direction for what I see come out of students that will move forward, they still learn theory they still learn practical performance and they learn a lot about technique as well. I have one kid that is all about learning the ins and outs of the instrument, it’s theory back ground and as many techniques from genres as possible he’s got what it takes to keep moving a head. 

I also see the worst of it in music programs that don’t care about anything but churning through students and making a buck. Those are the ones that don’t have the right approach and stepping out of their “programs” is a big no no. They provide you with low level instruments that have done the rounds so many times they barely work anymore. 

Everything else is private lessons. Those ones are the ones that have been in those bad programs and wanted to move past them. And the improvement they have once leaving these programs is awesome.


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## budda (Feb 12, 2018)

You guys know arts programs are the first to get cut, yeah?


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## Avedas (Feb 12, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> Both my junior and middle schools had really extensive arts and music programs, and it was such an amazing resource.
> 
> Mostly everyone in this thread is just bringing up anecdotal accounts of how popular guitar is. This is going nowhere lol


I was in 5 different music programs back in high school. And there were plenty of other programs for fine arts, theater etc. It seemed like they were more willing to cut sports programs than arts programs, but it was a Canadian high school so nobody gave a shit about high school sports I guess.


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## zappatton2 (Feb 13, 2018)

I'm thankful that I still have friends who are in to up-and-coming artists, so I still have that stream of exposure most people in their 40's might not have (I suppose there's the internet and all). I don't even mind if guitars becomes a niche thing, as long as some bands are still doing something creative with it. Though I do admit to feeling like this strange old man on occasion;


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## GuitarBizarre (Feb 13, 2018)

Eptaceros said:


> Both my junior and middle schools had really extensive arts and music programs, and it was such an amazing resource.
> 
> Mostly everyone in this thread is just bringing up anecdotal accounts of how popular guitar is. This is going nowhere lol


If you want data instead of anecdotes:


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## Vyn (Feb 13, 2018)

GuitarBizarre said:


> If you want data instead of anecdotes:



Jesus, it's brutal as fuck when you put it like that. Wow. Interesting to see the small rise in singing at the end but fuck.


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## JohnIce (Feb 13, 2018)

On the subject of education, to paraphrase Yuval Noah Harari, we're for the first time in history in a situation where having creative engineers and business ideas makes more economic sense than invading another country to steal their natural resources. Having a Google or Samsung is worth more than gold mines and oil. My home country of Sweden is a good example of a small country with a good economy built on clever business ideas rather than valuable materials. And, unsurprisingly, the swedish government has always invested huge money in art studies, and made it free for everyone.

What this means to me, is that creativity is worth quite a lot for a modern economy. When done right, music and other art programs are meant to develop kids' creativity, teach them to innovate and think outside boxes, not just prepare them for a "job" in music or art. Plenty of people throughout history has gone to art school or played musical instruments at a high level and made successful careers in engineering or software or politics instead. If you choose to look at art classes as JUST creating starving artists then you're kind of missing an important point.


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## sawtoothscream (Feb 14, 2018)

Lots of players here still, several guys I know just picked up playing a couple years back and some picked up drums. 

The HS did a music night thing every year far the students to bring there bands in or play whatever they want. Was pretty cool. Our drummer was a senior at the time so we played it the one year and had alot of fun.


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## blacai (Feb 14, 2018)

I attend some jam sessions weekly here in Germany and they are just full of mid-age/old people(35+)
It is normal when young people are living the era of the I want it right-now and overly surrounded by people, where they have to be all the time connected and reachable or they will be ignored by their friends because of missing any stupid event/moment.
Playing an instrument requires time, dedication and sometimes being alone at home practicing or taking lessons. 
In any case, it shouldn't be a problem if guitar is no longer the default choice, just like any other instrument during the history of music, another one will take its place.


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## couverdure (Feb 14, 2018)

This thread almost reeks of "le wrong generation".

A lot of the guitar-based music I listen to are listened by a lot of younger people, mostly within my age range or, god forbid me saying this word, "millennials", so I never really thought of guitar being an old man's instrument. It seems that only guitar players are trying to make themselves believe that, so I guess that's our loss (I know that there was that article about the guitar industry dying, but who takes the mainstream media too seriously?).

I think these words from Sithu Aye would be appropriate for a thread topic like this, because most guitarists act too conservative when it comes to guitar playing, which makes us get stuck in the past.


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## goobon (Feb 14, 2018)

As a current student, I think a big issue with music education is the lack of interest in certain genres. In the modern American high school, the only band one could join to learn a guitar/bass in would be Jazz band, which isn’t even common in most American schools. I mean let’s face it- NO teenager likes jazz, classical, or big band in the year 2018, and the ones that do are the band director’s kids. 

After playing guitar and bass for about 5 years I figured I’d sign up for jazz band, and after a year of it I decided I couldn’t f***ing stand it. I’m a metalhead, and I never wanted to play jazz to begin with, and as conceited as this sounds, I was far better than the people trying to teach me. Quit jazz to the dismay of the band directors. 

If schools offered a rock band class or a music production class instead of a traditional art credit we’d see a lot more interest in kids picking up an instrument. There are still tons of kids that love rock music, and now more than anything kids love various forms of hip hop. The dream still lives on, trust me.


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## JohnIce (Feb 14, 2018)

couverdure said:


> This thread almost reeks of "le wrong generation".
> 
> A lot of the guitar-based music I listen to are listened by a lot of younger people, mostly within my age range or, god forbid me saying this word, "millennials", so I never really thought of guitar being an old man's instrument. It seems that only guitar players are trying to make themselves believe that, so I guess that's our loss (I know that there was that article about the guitar industry dying, but who takes the mainstream media too seriously?).



Good point. I think a lot of the crowd who believe the guitar is fading away from popular culture, only have a very specific kind of guitar playing in mind when they say that, the "lead guitar hero" kind. Shred, blues licks and mountain top bends are, whether you like it or not, a retro aesthetic. Solos on ANY instrument are pretty rare these days, people are just kinda done with them. But just like the DX7 electric piano sound is 100% a retro thing to everyone who hears it, FM synthesis itself is all over modern dubstep and EDM. Similarly, the guitar is still used in innovative ways by people who resist the urge to shoehorn tired EVH licks in there.


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## Durtal (Feb 14, 2018)

Curt said:


> You *are* living in it, though.



Nah, nobody I know listens to that kind of stuff. The only ones who don't like guitar based music listen to Industrial or EDM.


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## Vyn (Feb 14, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> Good point. I think a lot of the crowd who believe the guitar is fading away from popular culture, only have a very specific kind of guitar playing in mind when they say that, the "lead guitar hero" kind. Shred, blues licks and mountain top bends are, whether you like it or not, a retro aesthetic. Solos on ANY instrument are pretty rare these days, people are just kinda done with them. But just like the DX7 electric piano sound is 100% a retro thing to everyone who hears it, FM synthesis itself is all over modern dubstep and EDM. Similarly, the guitar is still used in innovative ways by people who resist the urge to shoehorn tired EVH licks in there.



I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this, but I've never listened to EVH, Zappa or Page (knowingly there's probably been some pop hit on the radio that I've heard that I don't actually know of). and it's only really talking to older guitarists that you hear mention of them. It's only in the last year I've even gotten into a bit of shred with Gilbert and Malmsteen. If you ask me about solo guitar heroes and influences, stuff that I've actually tried learning, I'd say Loomis, Merrow and Broderick.

All that in mind though, when I say "Nobody plays guitar anymore". I'm thinking of everything - classical, blues, jazz, metal, 100-adjective-edm, whatever. It just seems like there isn't the desire to learn the instrument anymore and I don't know if that's a result of teaching styles not being up-to-date with modern music and people getting bored/frustrated or there's just not as much interest anymore.


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## Durtal (Feb 14, 2018)

Vyn said:


> I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this, but I've never listened to EVH, Zappa or Page (knowingly there's probably been some pop hit on the radio that I've heard that I don't actually know of). and it's only really talking to older guitarists that you hear mention of them.



Zappa is a little obscure these days but I'm pretty shocked about the other two. I'm in my 20s and plenty of people my age, including non-musicians are fans of Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin. There are definitely more young people listening to Zeppelin than Merrow and Broderick. The only people who care about those people are other guitarists (that like metal). EVH is more of a guitarist thing with younger people but even then he's still very well known due to his gear brand and is apparently still popular enough to appear on the front cover of guitar magazines.


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## JohnIce (Feb 14, 2018)

Vyn said:


> I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for this, but I've never listened to EVH, Zappa or Page (knowingly there's probably been some pop hit on the radio that I've heard that I don't actually know of). and it's only really talking to older guitarists that you hear mention of them. It's only in the last year I've even gotten into a bit of shred with Gilbert and Malmsteen. If you ask me about solo guitar heroes and influences, stuff that I've actually tried learning, I'd say Loomis, Merrow and Broderick.
> 
> All that in mind though, when I say "Nobody plays guitar anymore". I'm thinking of everything - classical, blues, jazz, metal, 100-adjective-edm, whatever. It just seems like there isn't the desire to learn the instrument anymore and I don't know if that's a result of teaching styles not being up-to-date with modern music and people getting bored/frustrated or there's just not as much interest anymore.



Sure, but Loomis, Merrow and Broderick are direct descendants of Malmsteen and Gilbert who came from EVH and Blackmore and so on and so on. They all follow a single lineage, progressively hot-rodding blues and some classical concepts, playing faster and faster and using more and more gain with each decade. There are other branches of guitar tradition though, like for example people like Nels Cline, the Edge, Nick Reinhart, Johnny Marr, Jónsi Birgisson etc., who have very little in common with the other crowd but whose influence on music has been just as huge, and more prevalent in current mainstream/alternative music. Riffs and solos are less popular, but guitar as a textural and mood-setting instrument is used all over the place. Hence the pedal boom of the last few years, there's an entire world surrounding that.


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## Vyn (Feb 14, 2018)

Durtal said:


> Zappa is a little obscure these days but I'm pretty shocked about the other two. I'm in my 20s and plenty of people my age, including non-musicians are fans of Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin. There are definitely more young people listening to Zeppelin than Merrow and Broderick. The only people who care about those people are other guitarists (that like metal). EVH is more of a guitarist thing with younger people but even then he's still very well known due to his gear brand and is apparently still popular enough to appear on the front cover of guitar magazines.



Yeah, I'm 25 and I haven't listened to them, it does make things awkward sometimes. People (Guitarists) either just stare or get majorly offended and call you out for not being a real guitarist. The only reason I'm aware of EVH is the amps really.



JohnIce said:


> Sure, but Loomis, Merrow and Broderick are direct descendants of Malmsteen and Gilbert who came from EVH and Blackmore and so on and so on. They all follow a single lineage, progressively hot-rodding blues and some classical concepts, playing faster and faster and using more and more gain with each decade. There are other branches of guitar tradition though, like for example people like Nels Cline, the Edge, Nick Reinhart, Johnny Marr, Jónsi Birgisson etc., who have very little in common with the other crowd but whose influence on music has been just as huge, and more prevalent in current mainstream/alternative music. Riffs and solos are less popular, but guitar as a textural and mood-setting instrument is used all over the place. Hence the pedal boom of the last few years, there's an entire world surrounding that.



Never thought of it like that, cheers for the input! Agreed on the pedal boom, that's gone from 0-100km/h in no time at all.


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## Durtal (Feb 14, 2018)

Vyn said:


> Yeah, I'm 25 and I haven't listened to them, it does make things awkward sometimes. People (Guitarists) either just stare or get majorly offended and call you out for not being a real guitarist. The only reason I'm aware of EVH is the amps really.



Why not just listen to them to see what the fuss is about then? Led Zeppelin did some amazing albums.


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## Vyn (Feb 14, 2018)

Durtal said:


> Why not just listen to them to see what the fuss is about then? Led Zeppelin did some amazing albums.




I'm typing this as I listen:

Cool riff. Musically a ton of groove. Or drugs. Probably both. But it works.

Vocals, definitely not keen on them. 

Some weird and interesting leads. Definitely drugs.

Damn that riff is bloody catchy. Loving the bass tone for some reason. It's filthy.

...end of massive instrumental session. Almost... Jazzy? But with pentatonics? I'm confused as shit, what just happened. 

THAT RIFF AGAIN. That's catchy as fuck.

Okay, That was pretty cool. Musically, it was entertaining and fun. Didn't really like the guitar tone but can appreciate it. Can see where a lot of bands get their influences from now, there's stuff in there that stands out bigtime.


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## JohnIce (Feb 14, 2018)

Vyn said:


> Never thought of it like that, cheers for the input! Agreed on the pedal boom, that's gone from 0-100km/h in no time at all.



Yeah, I've been listening to rock and metal for most of my life, and I often forget that guitar bands like Radiohead and U2 are actually way more popular than even the biggest metal bands. Same can be said about the brit pop boom of Oasis and their like, bands like the Strokes and Arctic Monkeys, currently we have huge bands like The 1975, Imagine Dragons, Alt-J, Arcade Fire etc. the list is far too long, all of whom feature tons of guitar just not blues/jazz/cover of guitar magazines type guitar.


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## Avedas (Feb 14, 2018)

goobon said:


> As a current student, I think a big issue with music education is the lack of interest in certain genres. In the modern American high school, the only band one could join to learn a guitar/bass in would be Jazz band, which isn’t even common in most American schools. I mean let’s face it- NO teenager likes jazz, classical, or big band in the year 2018, and the ones that do are the band director’s kids.
> 
> After playing guitar and bass for about 5 years I figured I’d sign up for jazz band, and after a year of it I decided I couldn’t f***ing stand it. I’m a metalhead, and I never wanted to play jazz to begin with, and as conceited as this sounds, I was far better than the people trying to teach me. Quit jazz to the dismay of the band directors.
> 
> If schools offered a rock band class or a music production class instead of a traditional art credit we’d see a lot more interest in kids picking up an instrument. There are still tons of kids that love rock music, and now more than anything kids love various forms of hip hop. The dream still lives on, trust me.


That's pretty sad. My high school jazz band teacher was an orchestral conductor and percussionist. My jazz combo instructor was prominent local session bassist. Not to mention both of them had a wide network and brought in a ton of local pros to sit in with us. Those guys could all rip. There weren't really any guitarists around but I think trying to learn technical guitar skills in a setting like that is completely missing the point, when you could easily be picking up knowledge about theory, composition, improvisation, and properly playing within a group context.


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## goobon (Feb 15, 2018)

Avedas said:


> That's pretty sad. My high school jazz band teacher was an orchestral conductor and percussionist. My jazz combo instructor was prominent local session bassist. Not to mention both of them had a wide network and brought in a ton of local pros to sit in with us. Those guys could all rip. There weren't really any guitarists around but I think trying to learn technical guitar skills in a setting like that is completely missing the point, when you could easily be picking up knowledge about theory, composition, improvisation, and properly playing within a group context.


That's really the only reason I joined. My knowledge of theory grew because I had to teach myself to read music and keep up with a large band, instead of just the usual church stuff I was doing with a couple other folks. Definitely got better at improvising because I got to do some solos and figured out my scales a lot more. Plus, playing a 6 string bass really opened up a lot of doors for learning. It was a good learning experience, but it just wasn't near as fun as I wanted it to be. I wanted to play more fast-paced, fun, funkier afro-jazz, but the trawl through the pool of boring, uninspiring (in my opinion, at least) white man music just kinda killed it for me, lmao. Wish I got to experience some gods ripping the bass, but it was all me. I go to a massive, fairly wealthy 6A high school so there's really no excuse for our jazz program to suck as hard as it does other than just lack of interest. At least I made some other music nerd friends and grew as a musician.


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## NotDonVito (Feb 15, 2018)

Don't really have anything to add, but I agree with what johnice was saying. Electric guitar is a more complementary instrument now. You don't need to write songs around riffs.


I really like the new Paramore album. All of the musicians give each other tonal space in this song. The guitarist, bassist, and vocalist all sound like they're playing in their own separate pockets, while the drummer just ties it them together. It comes to together in theory to make something great. I know that sounds stupid, that's the basis for any good rock song, but I feel like this is a clear example.


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## InHiding (Feb 15, 2018)

NotDonVito said:


> Don't really have anything to add, but I agree with what johnice was saying. Electric guitar is a more complementary instrument now. You don't need to write songs around riffs.
> 
> 
> I really like the new Paramore album. All of the musicians give each other tonal space in this song. The guitarist, bassist, and vocalist all sound like they're playing in their own separate pockets, while the drummer just ties it them together. It comes to together in theory to make something great. I know that sounds stupid, that's the basis for any good rock song, but I feel like this is a clear example.




I think that song is a bit weak though and that tonal space is there and useless... so opinions... Have you ever listened to Lissie?


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## NotDonVito (Feb 15, 2018)

You're kind of missing the point.

That is a popular song with guitars in 2018, and that's going to get people to start playing that kind of music. I think it's an easy song to listen to for 90% of people because it's "weak". There's not any more of what it doesn't need, so you can put this on at a party in the back and people will LIKE IT.

Idk who Lissie is, and so that means your average high schooler probably doesn't either. Lissie might have more interesting songs, but if it's not catchy and easy to listen too, or doesn't have the right marketing behind it, no ones going to care, and they'll just go back to hitting the blunt to a Travis Scott song.


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## InHiding (Feb 15, 2018)

Yeah most of my posts are just random fire anyways


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## Durtal (Feb 15, 2018)

Vyn said:


> Okay, That was pretty cool. Musically, it was entertaining and fun. Didn't really like the guitar tone but can appreciate it. Can see where a lot of bands get their influences from now, there's stuff in there that stands out bigtime.



I posted up a deeper cut that is a personal favourite, but the obvious classics are also amazing:





If you want to check out the band properly I'd recommend starting with either the 2nd or 4th albums, but the first 7 are all worth listening to.

Van Halen have always been more of a songs band than an album band to me but the riffage is immense on these tracks:


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## QuantumCybin (Feb 15, 2018)

Zeppelin III and Physical Graffiti are my favorites


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## GuitarBizarre (Feb 15, 2018)

Led Zep 4 is by far their most "gateway" album, and for good reason - it's by far the most consistent and most developed their sound ever was. Every other album either was somewhat inconsistent or it was full of experiments that don't necessarily appeal to everyone the same way.

If there is an album to define "Here, this is Led Zeppelin" to anyone, 4 is it.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Zoso.svg


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## Supernaut (Feb 17, 2018)

My favourite zep moment:


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## groverj3 (Mar 1, 2018)

I think there was kind of a mini-revival of "lead guitar player hero worship" in the early-mid 00s, when I started. However, I think that has faded by now, and it obviously wasn't as big as the 80s. I think there's something cyclical about it, but also it's slowly decreasing. I think we're going to see metal and guitar hero stuff go the way of Jazz. There will always be people into, always be people serious about it, but it won't be the situation where 20 kids at your high school are meeting up to jam and form bands.

I think that's just the way of all things. The good news is that art form will continue, but not with the same popularity as we've been accustomed to.


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## Masoo2 (Mar 1, 2018)

I said it in the other similar "Why do all guitarists sound the same today?" thread, but most people picking up guitar are going in an indie/shoegaze/pop/dreampop/math rock path as that's the main guitar based music that youth listen to.

There's a HUGE indie/pop/math scene that's blown up on YouTube/soundcloud/bandcamp over the past few years and they're all sub-25. Sleepy Dog, Yvette Young, boy pablo, Rex Orange County, Cuco, Gus Dapperton, etc seriously interesting and fun to listen to stuff

In the 90s/early 2000s, kids picked up guitar to be the next Hetfield or Cobain. In the late 00s/early 10s, people were picking up guitar to join the metalcore/scene wave. Middle 10s was the height of djent/prog metal, but now that it has passed indie/pop/math rock is taking over.


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## JohnIce (Mar 2, 2018)

Masoo2 said:


> I said it in the other similar "Why do all guitarists sound the same today?" thread, but most people picking up guitar are going in an indie/shoegaze/pop/dreampop/math rock path as that's the main guitar based music that youth listen to.
> 
> There's a HUGE indie/pop/math scene that's blown up on YouTube/soundcloud/bandcamp over the past few years and they're all sub-25. Sleepy Dog, Yvette Young, boy pablo, Rex Orange County, Cuco, Gus Dapperton, etc seriously interesting and fun to listen to stuff
> 
> In the 90s/early 2000s, kids picked up guitar to be the next Hetfield or Cobain. In the late 00s/early 10s, people were picking up guitar to join the metalcore/scene wave. Middle 10s was the height of djent/prog metal, but now that it has passed indie/pop/math rock is taking over.



Spot on, and I will add that jazzy singer/songwriters are really big right now too. Where there was Wonderwall style campfire guitar, chopsy jazz comping is the new thing it seems. This kinda stuff:


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## fps (Mar 3, 2018)

Vyn said:


> All that in mind though, when I say "Nobody plays guitar anymore". I'm thinking of everything - classical, blues, jazz, metal, 100-adjective-edm, whatever. It just seems like there isn't the desire to learn the instrument anymore and I don't know if that's a result of teaching styles not being up-to-date with modern music and people getting bored/frustrated or there's just not as much interest anymore.



Learning those strands of music (classical, jazz, blues etc) is hard, much harder than metal because you actually have to know your theory and play with other people who know what you're doing.

A lot of guitar teachers are really just kids who have learned a few things and pass those few things on, not real guitarists.

Those musical styles are great, but there are easier ways to get songs out, and most people are interested in communication, and that involves lyrics and words, and it's much easier to communicate themselves through rap, for instance. Also, there are new instruments and sounds, they are much much easier to write with because musically they're so much less complex, anti-western in a lot of ways, and kids therefore just move towards the easiest thing. Making music has never been cheaper or easier, and a lot of kids with no formal training (even less than the guitarists who have been writing hits recently) are now taking the reins and leading that.


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## Avedas (Mar 3, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> Spot on, and I will add that jazzy singer/songwriters are really big right now too. Where there was Wonderwall style campfire guitar, chopsy jazz comping is the new thing it seems. This kinda stuff:




Guys like Kero One, Sam Ock, and the rest of that side of the Korean American hip hop scene have been doing this stuff for over a decade. I always enjoyed it but too bad my singing is pretty subpar.


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## oc616 (Mar 3, 2018)

One little frustrating anecdote I've experienced today in London on a related note, how guitar shops don't help this themselves.

Walked down a street filled with guitar stores. Except every one was basically a renamed copy of the last, stocking only Fender, Gretsch, the occasional Gibson and one PRS (looked used). They all, however, packed walls full of acoustic guitars and ukuleles. Not a single Jackson, Ibanez or LTD to be found. This reflects a bit on the city I'm from as well, so it's a shame to see it being a common practice. Its easy to see how this could have an effect on the decline of the electric from a metal or rock stand point.


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## noise in my mind (Mar 3, 2018)

(warning: my two cents) People lack patience in this day in age and just want to pull up a pre made loop they found on instagram. Practicing a musical instrument to a sufficient level is hard work, but why do that when you can make a loop in 5 seconds. Taylor swift and ed sheeran play guitar of the acoustic variety, but IMO make boring uninspiring music countered by brilliant marketing and business models along with psychological gas lighting and stockholm syndrome techniques to make people like their music. People always go with the herd. /rant


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## GuitarBizarre (Mar 3, 2018)

noise in my mind said:


> (warning: my two cents) People lack patience in this day in age and just want to pull up a pre made loop they found on instagram. Practicing a musical instrument to a sufficient level is hard work, but why do that when you can make a loop in 5 seconds. Taylor swift and ed sheeran play guitar of the acoustic variety, but IMO make boring uninspiring music countered by brilliant marketing and business models along with psychological gas lighting and stockholm syndrome techniques to make people like their music. People always go with the herd. /rant


Who the fuck is getting their drum loops from instagram? How the fuck can you get stockholm syndrome from a musical act? Who and how the fuck is anyone "gaslighting" to make their friends like Taylor Swift? 

As for making loops in 5 seconds... be consistent. Are they getting their loops from other people or are they making them themselves? 

Practicing a musical instrument IS hard work, but so is getting good at musical production, understanding MIDI, etc. 

It's not as if you can just open up an instance of serum, or Loom, or FM8 and understand it and can manipulate it with any degree of control if you don't know what you're doing. And sure, they come with presets, but they're rarely used by anyone of any competence because they're limiting and they're too recognisable - people will nail you online within minutes if you upload a track using nothing but unmodified preset sounds from any major synth, because all of the hardcores who listen to these styles of music can identify them immediately.


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## JohnIce (Mar 3, 2018)

noise in my mind said:


> (warning: my two cents) People lack patience in this day in age and just want to pull up a pre made loop they found on instagram. Practicing a musical instrument to a sufficient level is hard work, but why do that when you can make a loop in 5 seconds. Taylor swift and ed sheeran play guitar of the acoustic variety, but IMO make boring uninspiring music countered by brilliant marketing and business models along with psychological gas lighting and stockholm syndrome techniques to make people like their music. People always go with the herd. /rant





I've been geeking out over rock and metal for over 20 years, and I feel like by now I honestly know too much about how that particular sausage is made to be inspired/surprised by any of it anymore. So I started learning about electronic music production and bringing my songwriting down to the bare essentials on an acoustic guitar and started to love people like Sheeran and Swift, because in their minimalism I can't tell how they come up with what they do. That's exciting to me. I remember hearing Ed Sheeran 7-ish years ago and being absolutely floored, and that was years before he had any mainstream success. So nah, there's no gaslighting or stockholm syndromes, and producing modern pop is just as complicated as learning guitar, the simple truth is that some people just don't share your taste in music.


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## Stilicho (Mar 3, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> I've been geeking out over rock and metal for over 20 years, and I feel like by now I honestly know too much about how that particular sausage is made to be inspired/surprised by any of it anymore. So I started learning about electronic music production and bringing my songwriting down to the bare essentials on an acoustic guitar and started to love people like Sheeran and Swift, because in their minimalism I can't tell how they come up with what they do. That's exciting to me. I remember hearing Ed Sheeran 7-ish years ago and being absolutely floored, and that was years before he had any mainstream success. So nah, there's no gaslighting or stockholm syndromes, and producing modern pop is just as complicated as learning guitar, the simple truth is that some people just don't share your taste in music.



I remember geeking out over that song "Cola" by Camelphat since the production and beat is so good, but I never got excited about Swift or Sheeran (edit: his vocal melodies are great). I think it's because I came into music through acoustic guitar and pop and learned how to play that stuff first before finding jazz harmony, syncopation, and fast arpeggios lol. But it definitely is a good bit easier to play, produce and understand musically than most modern metal, so I have to disagree with you there. I know a good few people who are into electronic music and they actually do take their beats off of soundcloud and instagram - but they're obviously amateurs; I know more serious producers who spend all day at their computers and I respect them for that.

You do raise good points about not being a genre snob though, there's far too much of that in jazz and metal circles. Lots of arch-top playing jazz guitarists I jam with will not listen to metal at all because of silly "I don't like screaming/it's just playing fast" reasons.


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## noise in my mind (Mar 3, 2018)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Who the fuck is getting their drum loops from instagram? How the fuck can you get stockholm syndrome from a musical act? Who and how the fuck is anyone "gaslighting" to make their friends like Taylor Swift?
> 
> As for making loops in 5 seconds... be consistent. Are they getting their loops from other people or are they making them themselves?
> 
> ...



I disagree. I am clearly making jest of social media and our instant want it right now culture, I should have specified to read between the lines. Plenty of tunes have been made with stock presets, what a ridiculous thing to say! Deadmau5 chordz of life preset and it goes on and on. You can use software these days to make music with limited knowledge of its functions. You can buy presets for serum etc. As far as the gaslighting goes we are going to have to disagree (remember shania twain or whatever? yeah I thought so)


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## JohnIce (Mar 3, 2018)

Stilicho said:


> I remember geeking out over that song "Cola" by Camelphat since the production and beat is so good, but I never got excited about Swift or Sheeran (edit: his vocal melodies are great). I think it's because I came into music through acoustic guitar and pop and learned how to play that stuff first before finding jazz harmony, syncopation, and fast arpeggios lol. But it definitely is a good bit easier to play, produce and understand musically than most modern metal, so I have to disagree with you there. I know a good few people who are into electronic music and they actually do take their beats off of soundcloud and instagram - but they're obviously amateurs; I know more serious producers who spend all day at their computers and I respect them for that.
> 
> You do raise good points about not being a genre snob though, there's far too much of that in jazz and metal circles. Lots of arch-top playing jazz guitarists I jam with will not listen to metal at all because of silly "I don't like screaming/it's just playing fast" reasons.



All good points! I think how "easy" something is to do is kind of a matter of viewpoint though. In my mind, there are three separate aspects of difficulty: Skill, Taste and Creativity. To me, great skill is not more difficult to attain than great creativity or great taste. For example, micing and mixing a live drum kit requires more skill than lifting samples off Beatport. Fersure. But if the end result is derivative, dated and not fitting the song, is it still more difficult to produce than what Max Martin and Shellback have done with Taylor Swift? Their ability to invent exactly the right vibe that a generation of kids will go nuts for when it's released 6 months from now? I think that's what excites me about these artists, the "duh!" element of them releasing something so simple that no one else seemed to have thought of. How hard it is for myself to recreate once it's actually made, that's of less importance to me at this time in my life.


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