# conspiracy theories / mystical creatures / urban legends...the thread!



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 29, 2017)

i find some conspiracy theories very interesting and sometimes cool to read about. which are real and which are just plain made-up? its hard to tell, but in this modern age of technology it is still strange to see why some of this stuff can or cannot be proven.

i thought it would be fun for us to share a few we think may be real or ones that you find fascinating. there are soooo many. i even came across some wiki lists lol...


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conspiracy_theories

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory


i will share more later, but here are a few of ones like...

1. bigfoot/yeti - it seems plausible...still millions of acers of wilderness still unexplored with hundreds of sightings every year all over the globe. still no body though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigfoot



2. who shot jfk? - living it texas and having visited the sight and seen numerous documentaries...i think we will never really know in our lifetime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy

3. lock ness monster - this ones captivated me since i was a kid. it would be so cool for it to be true, but after all the searching and research, this one looks to a big fish story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loch_Ness_Monster


so, what do you think of these? what are some conspiracy theories that interest you? have you seen or witnessed anything that fall into these categories? feel free to post up links and videos.

discuss!


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## marcwormjim (Jul 29, 2017)

I'm particularly invested in the conspiracy surrounding the discontinuation of Orville Redenbacher's pour-over-cheddar microwave popcorn.


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## Demiurge (Jul 29, 2017)

I really enjoy conspiracy theories, though, it gets harder and harder to truly have fun with them. Every book I try to read about them always finds the need to have a wet-blanket moment: "Y'know, conspiracy theories aren't always fun & games. Like McCarthyism, the Protocols, 9/11 truthers, etc." Yeah yeah but more Roswell please.

My favorite conspiracy is more of an enormous hoax. Unfortunately, most people know about it from the DaVinci Code, where there's a belief that Jesus had a kid and that the bloodline has been preserved into the modern age. The book that the DaVinci Code ripped-off, "Holy Blood Holy Grail" chronicles the authors getting played like a fiddle: taking information from the hoaxers with an overwhelming amount of trust and then making astounding leaps to strange conclusions. It all plays out so beautifully that it's almost an injustice that it's hogwash. 



marcwormjim said:


> I'm particularly invested in the conspiracy surrounding the discontinuation of Orville Redenbacher's pour-over-cheddar microwave popcorn.



My guess is that much like the original Coca Cola, the recipe contained cocaine which just became too expensive to continue to include.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 29, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> I'm particularly invested in the conspiracy surrounding the discontinuation of Orville Redenbacher's pour-over-cheddar microwave popcorn.



lol...i thought you we kidding until i looked it up




Demiurge said:


> I really enjoy conspiracy theories, though, it gets harder and harder to truly have fun with them. Every book I try to read about them always finds the need to have a wet-blanket moment: "Y'know, conspiracy theories aren't always fun & games. Like McCarthyism, the Protocols, 9/11 truthers, etc." Yeah yeah but more Roswell please.
> 
> My favorite conspiracy is more of an enormous hoax. Unfortunately, most people know about it from the DaVinci Code, where there's a belief that Jesus had a kid and that the bloodline has been preserved into the modern age. The book that the DaVinci Code ripped-off, "Holy Blood Holy Grail" chronicles the authors getting played like a fiddle: taking information from the hoaxers with an overwhelming amount of trust and then making astounding leaps to strange conclusions. It all plays out so beautifully that it's almost an injustice that it's hogwash.QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 29, 2017)

the only ones that really interest me at the moment are the idea that H.H Holmes could be Jack the Ripper and the smiley face killer here in the midwest. 

https://the-line-up.com/the-grisly-...ory-that-connects-40-college-students-deaths/


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## lewis (Jul 29, 2017)

will get obvious stick as anyone always does but Im massive on these and first and foremost is 9/11

for me the "official" report is shrouded in mystery thanks to blatant lies therfore I dont trust any of the story. I cant see how any of what they told us that went down, in the way it did, was true. Therefore for me, something else went down and the Government covered up what actually happened. OR were wanting a unanimous nationwide acceptance on War in the middle east so used it as a false flag to appeal to the USA public and their amazing sense of patriotism. I also believe the UK got in on the 9/11, need a reason to justify War with the USA BS, with our bus and subway bombings not that long after 9/11. Our way of easing public acceptance in justifying killing millions of innocents in the far east.

2nd was Moon landing. I dont care what Nasa just released to prove it, I will never believe that at THAT time, man went to the moon. Probably could have and have done since, but in that era?. Not in a million years. The fact that the USA hated losing the initial space race to Russia which pissed them off given the intense rivalry then stirs the pot and makes it seem even more likely they faked it to get one up on the Russians who were actually genuinely trying to. Everything from their footage is blatant "studio set" and the mistakes with locations, lighting, lack of blast craters, flags waving, no stars and any other glaring mistakes, really proves to me it was BS.

3rd big one for me was Sandy Hook school shooting. That was one of the most blatant false flag incidents to push through the new legislation on gun law, ive ever seen. There were even errors with actors that had been used before in other "events", getting recognized. A dad of one of the apparent "victims" was caught laughing and joking right before an Interview was due to start and you literally see him get into character. Was a joke.
That and everything around the suspect and his family is blatant BS.

Honorable mentions:

to the weird Malaysian airlines MH370 disappearance then not that long afterwards Mh17 (led to believe was a totally different plane) was shot down in Ukraine during that rebels/government/russia BS?. Of all the planes in the air at any given moment from any of the worlds Airline companies, and we are expected to believe that Malaysian Airlines loses 2 planes that were basically identical bar a few small differences (1 extra window I believe) within such a small space of time from each other in such suspicious circumstances?
Wreckage of 17 in Ukraine seems to show mistakes that go some way to proving "MH17" may have actually been MH370 made to look like MH17.
Would explain why they have, and will never (imo), find the plane properly. Some convenient parts washing up on islands do not prove anything to me and could have easily been dumped at sea by ship a few miles from shore, safe in the knowledge they would "wash up" on the beaches and be reported.

and

Roswell and the UFO crash!
The locals know what they saw and to be made to feel like fools or whackjobs is terrible.
Another cover up in the best interest of "national security"

If anyone wants to talk more indepth with me about any of what I mentioned. (Friendly discussions only of course, Im not interested in being branded a tinfoil hat loser), then I will happily do so as I love the topics.


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## Unleash The Fury (Jul 29, 2017)

Years ago there were "conspiracy theories" about companies micro chipping their employees one day in the future. People laughed and scoffed to end. Well here we are in 2017 and it came true.

Is it not a conspiracy that Verizon and other companies spy on everyone via cell phone camera/microphone? Well its happening and it would behoove someone to understand that.

Is it not a conspiracy that we pay income tax although it has never legally been ratified, and nearly no one knows about that because thats the way "they" want it?

Do you mean to tell me there are no conspiracies in education? Health? Politics? Religion???

Conspiracies exist in this world because of psycopathic people. Are there none of those in this world??


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## Rosal76 (Jul 29, 2017)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> so, what do you think of these?



I have a very high interest in all of those you posted.



M3CHK1LLA said:


> What are some conspiracy theories that interest you?



In the past few weeks/months, I have watched new documentaries on...

D.B. Cooper. The individual who hijacked a plane and ransomed $200,000 in 1971. Was never caught/identified.

Amelia Earhart. Not too long ago, they aired a show called, Amelia Earhart: The lost evidence. They uncovered a new picture which they think was Amelia, her navigator and her plane being pulled out of the water.





I just started watching this show called, American Ripper. According to Jeff Mudgett, who is the great, great grandson of H.H. Holmes, America's first serial killer, he believes that Holmes is actually Jack the Ripper. Forum member, Knightbrolaire, also posted something on the H.H. Holmes/Jack the Ripper connection in this thread.

Mysteries of the Outdoors. I just started watching this. Basically, UFO's, strange creatures, etc, etc, etc, that are seen..., outdoors. LOL!

Missing in Alaska. Group of guys searching for missing people in Alaska. Could be paranormal, U.F.O's, government conspiracy, etc, etc, etc.

Then there's Expedition Unknown. They just wrapped up season 3 for the year.

Yeah, I'm into all of that stuff.


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## Rosal76 (Jul 29, 2017)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> 3. lock ness monster - this ones captivated me since i was a kid. it would be so cool for it to be true, but after all the searching and research, this one looks to a big fish story.



I still watch documentaries on the Loch Ness monster, old and new. However, I don't think anything lives in that area, now. Hundreds/thousands of years ago, I would agree. I would think something that big would need large amounts of food to survive.


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## lewis (Jul 29, 2017)

not conspiracy, but ghost related.
Anyone seen the footage of the teenage gamer filming himself playing online, and then he catches a tonne of ghostly activity start in his apartment around him?. doors slamming, lights on/off, boxes being thrown.

Its a pretty incredible piece of footage tbh. He is so genuine with it too you can just tell its not staged.


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## lewis (Jul 29, 2017)

Rosal76 said:


> I have a very high interest in all of those you posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Literally watched documentaries for the first time today on DB Cooper and Amelia funnily enough.
That picture is very very interesting /\ would explain why the plane was never found. She had an unreal stressful time of it. Maybe she wanted to fake her death to get away from that. The last year of her life was stupidly intense. She probably couldnt take it anymore.

DB Cooper is odd. I dont know where I stand on that one. The guy who came forward claiming it was his brother, and the FBI didnt ever take that seriously. I actually thought it very easily could of been him. A lot of logical evidence make sense for it to have been him. He even looked very very close to the drawing of what the suspect looked like.
the odd part of it for me was how he acted on the plane that suggested he was an novice AND and a pro at the same time??. Must have been some sort of intentional actions to throw them off during the investigation. Clever clever man. Especially regards to the Parachute situations.


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## MFB (Jul 29, 2017)

I'm down with cryptozoology theories, a la Lochness, Big Foot, Chupacabra, Mothman, etc... because this world is so huge and it's just like "Why not?" I'm smart enough to know that I don't crap on a crap stick about day-to-day stuff, now you want me to think I could explain how something like all those could be elusive enough to not get themselves captured and studied? Get real. Just accept them for what they are and be done with it.

Goverment conspiracies, I just get so burnt out by them I tend not to even bother


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## Rosal76 (Jul 29, 2017)

^
Concerning Cooper, they found hard evidence from his tie that he left on the plane suggesting that he worked in manufacturing CRT (cathode ray tubes) used for t.v.'s and for the military, leaning more towards that he had military training of some kind, hence having knowledge of parachuting. Does that mean Cooper was in the military? It's open for debate. The thing I have to remember is that smart people mislead people. He could have intentionally left the tie on the plane and/or the tie could have belonged to someone else.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 30, 2017)

wow...a lot of you guys have tinfoil hats on lol

j/k

i don't know where to start.

here is a thread ii started on the implants...

http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/a-company-to-implant-microchips-in-employees.323754/#post-4767319


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## lewis (Jul 30, 2017)

I hate how asking questions about anything = "Looney whack job theorist"


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 30, 2017)

^ rofl

edit: please tell that thats not you, and that you google some random dude on the interwebz


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## MFB (Jul 30, 2017)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> wow...a lot of you guys have tinfoil hats on lol
> 
> j/k
> 
> ...


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## Rosal76 (Jul 30, 2017)

One of my favorite topics as far as the murder/paranormal/conspiracy things go is the 1974 Amityville murders. For those of you who may not know about it, I'll try to explain it as easy and short as I can. In 1974, Ronald DeFeo Jr. killed his whole family, which includes both his parents, two brothers and two sisters. He was arrested and claims that voices in the house told him to do it. Nonetheless, he will spend the rest of his life in prison. He is still alive today.

The conspiracy. Many people to this day, cannot believe that Ronald was able to kill 6 people without one person waking up, running, escaping, calling the police, etc, etc, etc. Many think that a second gun man was there but no evidence was found that there was.

New evidence. 38 years later, in 2012, investigators found a handgun in the lake behind the house, which may be evidence that there was indeed, a second gunman. Is the case solved? No. The handgun is so decayed/rusted that police can't even identify it and so, the gun can't be connected to the murders because they need ballistics, ownership documentation, etc, etc, etc. The investigation continues...


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## lewis (Jul 30, 2017)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> ^ rofl
> 
> edit: please tell that thats not you, and that you google some random dude on the interwebz


thankfully, it is just a google search image haha


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 30, 2017)

really surprised that stuff like db cooper and earhart were mentioned, thought those were prob not subjects the younger folk here knew much about. ive been following these for years myself...seems sso is well read.




Rosal76 said:


> One of my favorite topics as far as the murder/paranormal/conspiracy things go is the 1974 Amityville murders. For those of you who may not know about it, I'll try to explain it as easy and short as I can. In 1974, Ronald DeFeo Jr. killed his whole family, which includes both his parents, two brothers and two sisters. He was arrested and claims that voices in the house told him to do it. Nonetheless, he will spend the rest of his life in prison. He is still alive today.
> 
> The conspiracy. Many people to this day, cannot believe that Ronald was able to kill 6 people without one person waking up, running, escaping, calling the police, etc, etc, etc. Many think that a second gun man was there but no evidence was found that there was.
> 
> New evidence. 38 years later, in 2012, investigators found a handgun in the lake behind the house, which may be evidence that there was indeed, a second gunman. Is the case solved? No. The handgun is so decayed/rusted that police can't even identify it and so, the gun can't be connected to the murders because they need ballistics, ownership documentation, etc, etc, etc. The investigation continues...



i remember that story, do you have a good link to it?




lewis said:


> thankfully, it is just a google search image haha


 thanks goodness lol


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 30, 2017)

I remember hearing about a female body washing up on some island near her flight path back in the 40s or something like that. It was most likely Earheart given the unlikely coincidence of there being a white female body with similar measurements/equipment washing up next to her. http://www.cracked.com/article_18718_6-famous-unsolved-mysteries-that-have-totally-been-solved.html


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 31, 2017)

JFK/RFK, Jack the Ripper, DB Cooper, 9/11, and The Phantom Killer/Zodiac Killer are rather interesting.


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## vilk (Jul 31, 2017)

My favorite conspiracy theory is the one that turned out to be correct: The Gulf of Tonkin Incident

For those of you who slept through History class, you might not remember the exact details of how the United States entered into the Vietnam Civil War. Well, one of our ships, the USS Maddox, was attacked by the North Vietnamese while it was floating about the Gulf of Tonkin. Since that was a clear act of aggression from North Vietnam, we said "OK it's WAR TIME!" and jumped right into their conflict.

Only... that didn't happen, which the military now fully admits. In 2005 the NSA declassified 140 some documents, and among them was information showing that the Maddox wasn't even there, and the North Vietnamese didn't even attack anything. http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/press20051201.htm


So basically we have a clear precedent for the United States fabricating incidents for the express purpose of creating an excuse to start wars. So when we write off 9/11 and Iraq conspiracy theories, I can't help but be reminded that for a 40 years from 1965 until 2005, anyone who doubted the truth of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident would have been on the receiving end of tin foil hat jokes. Except they were right.

In 40 years from now will the NSA declassify information showing that we fabricated our reasons for starting other wars?


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## bostjan (Jul 31, 2017)

Dyatlov Pass Incident, anyone?

A reasonably experienced group of mountaineers set out in the Ural mountains on a hiking expedition. They were found scattered over the area days later with their tongues removed.


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## Rosal76 (Jul 31, 2017)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> i remember that story, do you have a good link to it?



Yeah.

http://www.amityvillefilm.com/Discovery of the gun.html

Oh, and just to throw this in for the die-hard Amityville fans. Bradford Exchange released this not too long ago.









Better to have a little model of the house than live in the real thing, right? I was gonna buy one but didn't want demonic pigs appearing in my windows. LOL.


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## Rosal76 (Jul 31, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Dyatlov Pass Incident, anyone?



Yes!!!

I know the story. Very, very, very creepy. What I like about this case is that it's well documented. Lots of photos, evidence, investigators were at the site, etc, etc, etc. That's one case where people just can't say, "it's a natural occurrence" or "this is the work of wild animals". I'm like, "yeah, wild animals from outer space".


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## bostjan (Jul 31, 2017)

Rosal76 said:


> Yes!!!
> 
> I know the story. Very, very, very creepy. What I like about this case is that it's well documented. Lots of photos, evidence, investigators were at the site, etc, etc, etc. That's one case where people just can't say, "it's a natural occurrence" or "this is the work of wild animals". I'm like, "yeah, wild animals from outer space".



Yeah, tons of speculation about what happened there. Young men and women with severe internal injuries with no external signs of trauma whatsoever. Also, what kind of animal lives in the Ural mountains in the winter that would kill people and remove their tongues, but leave everything else in tact, and why were these people mostly half-naked? The official story of "misadventure" leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

I'd say, most likely, a government (USSR) conspiracy of some sort. Probably these young people stumbled on something they should not have seen or were at the wrong place when a military test was ongoing, and no one wanted to say what really happened.


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## Rosal76 (Jul 31, 2017)

bostjan said:


> I'd say, most likely, a government (USSR) conspiracy of some sort.



When I first read/watched Youtube videos of the case, and they explained about the missing eyes, tongues, and organs, my first immediate reaction is U.F.O.s. Reason why is because of the long history of animal mutilations with their corpse having missing parts done with surgical precision, also. I thought that maybe the same U.F.O.'s decided to move on to humans.


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## TheKindred (Jul 31, 2017)

^

not necessarily a "conspiracy" per se, but check out the Nahinni National Park in the NWT of Canada (also known as the Headless Valley)

It has a weird micro-climate, where it can be balmy in the middle of the winter. Also, everyone who goes up there ends up decapitated and the head goes missing. Lots of theories (some very bizarre) about why. The locals have some very interesting legends about the area as well.

I won't link anything specific since there's everything from a Time article to some pretty out there conspiracy sites, but it's some good reading. I kinda really want to do an expedition there from the upper lakes but.... you know...the mysterious decapitation thing.


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## takotakumi (Jul 31, 2017)

Thanks for this thread

I've been out of this stuff for a while haha

While I don't necessary follow/believe most of these, I find them extremely interesting/entertaining


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## bostjan (Jul 31, 2017)

What about Roanoke and "Croatoan?"

Maybe a bit less weird, but still pretty darn weird. Not that the first American colonies from Europe were immune from being wiped out by a number of things, but why on Earth would someone in a dire situation waste their remaining energy carving a totally cryptic word into a tree?

And what about that blimp, during WWII, that launched to patrol the Pacific Coast and returned home with no one aboard, but a cup of coffee still sitting upright near the control deck? If there was severe weather, why didn't the coffee spill? If something else, why didn't anyone radio in the situation?


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## takotakumi (Jul 31, 2017)

bostjan said:


> What about Roanoke and "Croatoan?"
> 
> Maybe a bit less weird, but still pretty darn weird. Not that the first American colonies from Europe were immune from being wiped out by a number of things, but why on Earth would someone in a dire situation waste their remaining energy carving a totally cryptic word into a tree?


Quick summary of this one?
The last season of American Horror Story was based on this one, but it mostly used this myth's ghost population as the haunted characters. The sort of explained how they were an old colony and why they haunted the owners of the character's house, but they never really explained croatoan and that part you described.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 31, 2017)

vilk said:


> My favorite conspiracy theory is the one that turned out to be correct: The Gulf of Tonkin Incident
> 
> For those of you who slept through History class, you might not remember the exact details of how the United States entered into the Vietnam Civil War. Well, one of our ships, the USS Maddox, was attacked by the North Vietnamese while it was floating about the Gulf of Tonkin. Since that was a clear act of aggression from North Vietnam, we said "OK it's WAR TIME!" and jumped right into their conflict.
> 
> ...


The link you posted says that the maddox was there and was attacked, though the 2nd attack never happened (based off signal intelligence received). "*Hanyok argues that the SIGINT confirms that North Vietnamese torpedo boats attacked a U.S. destroyer, the USS Maddox, on August 2, 1964, although under questionable circumstances. The SIGINT also shows, according to Hanyok, that a second attack, on August 4, 1964, by North Vietnamese torpedo boats on U.S. ships, did not occur despite claims to the contrary by the Johnson administration.* President Johnson and Secretary of Defense McNamara treated Agency SIGINT reports as vital evidence of a second attack and used this claim to support retaliatory air strikes and to buttress the administration's request for a Congressional resolution that would give the White House freedom of action in Vietnam."


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## lewis (Jul 31, 2017)

vilk said:


> *So basically we have a clear precedent for the United States fabricating incidents for the express purpose of creating an excuse to start wars. So when we write off 9/11 and Iraq conspiracy theories, I can't help but be reminded that for a 40 years from 1965 until 2005, anyone who doubted the truth of the Gulf of Tonkin Incident would have been on the receiving end of tin foil hat jokes. Except they were right.*
> 
> In 40 years from now will the NSA declassify information showing that we fabricated our reasons for starting other wars?



10000000% with every ounce of my body, THIS!!!!

It was like the old report that came out after 9/11 saying that they would need another "pearl Harbor" incident to get their way in another War. They then obtained it and 9/11 happened.

sidenote: The way you worded that is amazing. Super clear and impossible to argue with. The main reason I will always believe the USA government are war criminals, fraudsters and liars who will do anything to maintain the rank of #1 on the planet.


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## Rosal76 (Jul 31, 2017)

bostjan said:


> What about Roanoke and "Croatoan?"



Yes. I know and love the case. I always thought the cause was hostile Indians. I watched a documentary about it a few months ago and 2 of the investigators were actually arguing about which direction the colony went. I was like, "really, do you guys even know they left".



bostjan said:


> And what about that blimp, during WWII, that launched to patrol the Pacific Coast and returned home with no one aboard, but a cup of coffee still sitting upright near the control deck? If there was severe weather, why didn't the coffee spill? If something else, why didn't anyone radio in the situation?



I'm not familiar with that one but will research it. Has a Mary Celeste vibe to it.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 31, 2017)

vilk said:


> My favorite conspiracy theory is the one that turned out to be correct: The Gulf of Tonkin Incident
> 
> For those of you who slept through History class, you might not remember the exact details of how the United States entered into the Vietnam Civil War. Well, one of our ships, the USS Maddox, was attacked by the North Vietnamese while it was floating about the Gulf of Tonkin. Since that was a clear act of aggression from North Vietnam, we said "OK it's WAR TIME!" and jumped right into their conflict.
> 
> ...


I believe around the same time, we had Operation Northwoods, where we were going to use staged events, blamed on Cuba, as a means to get JFK to attack Cuba with military personnel. He refused to send military forces when the CIA was training anti-Cuba forces and lost a bunch of people in the Bay of Pigs. 

Apparently, some believe that JFK was supposed to be offed in Florida, for obvious reasons, but that it was easier to do it in Texas because LBJ was from there. From what I can tell, the driver of the motorcade stops [as evidenced by the tail lights], looks back, and upon seeing JFK's skull being blown to shit, then puts his foot on the gas pedal. It's quick, but it's noticeable if you watch it closely. This has led some to believe that someone has cut out a few frames.


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## watson503 (Jul 31, 2017)

vilk said:


> My favorite conspiracy theory is the one that turned out to be correct: The Gulf of Tonkin Incident
> 
> For those of you who slept through History class, you might not remember the exact details of how the United States entered into the Vietnam Civil War. Well, one of our ships, the USS Maddox, was attacked by the North Vietnamese while it was floating about the Gulf of Tonkin. Since that was a clear act of aggression from North Vietnam, we said "OK it's WAR TIME!" and jumped right into their conflict.
> 
> ...









In relation to that, here's a young Jim Morrison with his father, Admiral George Stephen Morrison, aboard the bridge of the USS Bon Homme Richard.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 31, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> ^
> 
> not necessarily a "conspiracy" per se, but check out the Nahinni National Park in the NWT of Canada (also known as the Headless Valley)
> 
> ...



never heard of this one, its pretty creepy and an interesting read...

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/23zq4r/the_valley_of_the_headless_men/



> The 200 Mile gorge has become infamous, due to a number of gruesome deaths and many disappearances, earning itself the eerie name, The Valley of the Headless Men. Anomalies first began in 1908, when the Macleod Brothers came prospecting for gold in the valley. Nothing was heard or seen of the brothers for a whole year, until their decapitated bodies were found near a river. Nine years later, the Swiss prospector Martin Jorgenson was next to succumb to the Valley, when his headless corpse was found. In 1945, a miner from Ontario was found in his sleeping bag with his head cut from his shoulders. While skeptics of an unknown power at work in the Valley would put the grizzly mutilations down to feuding gold prospectors or hostile Indians, there are other strange happenings in the area which add to the valleys mysteriousness. The fiercely renowned Naha tribe simply vanished from the area a few years prior to the first deaths. Other Indians of the area have avoided the Valley for centuries, claiming an unknown evil haunts it. Many parts of the valley remain unexplored, and there are tales the Valley holds an entrance to the Hollow earth. Others believe the Valley is home to a lost world, with lush greenery and a tropical climate, due to the hot springs generating warm air, as well as untapped goldmines and wandering sasquatches. While a haven for Bigfoot remains unlikely, one thing is for certain, something strange lurks in the Nahanni Valley.


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## marcwormjim (Jul 31, 2017)

lewis said:


> The way you worded that is amazing. Super clear and impossible to argue with.



That speculated causation of X somehow correlates with speculative causation of Y?

I have no hat in the "investigate three-eleven" thing (and certainly don't consider the US government to be above committing such atrocities), but even implying that one's suspicions being reinforced by declassified Tonkin info lends credence to 7/11 being a part-time job is only going to appear reasonable to someone who already believes it.

edit: Just realized who I was replying to. Please disregard, and carry on.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 31, 2017)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> never heard of this one, its pretty creepy and an interesting read...
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/23zq4r/the_valley_of_the_headless_men/


I'm surprised no one has made a horror movie about this yet. We did get a couple of shitty films based on dyatlov though.


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## lelandbowman3 (Jul 31, 2017)

Oh, boy. Buckle up everyone. I've got a series of stories I posted on 4chan a while back, and this will help get my mind off things.


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## lelandbowman3 (Jul 31, 2017)

Part 2.


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## takotakumi (Jul 31, 2017)

lelandbowman3 said:


> Part 2.
> View attachment 55295
> View attachment 55296
> View attachment 55297
> ...



fuuuuuug that was spooky but fun to read

At first I thought it was just a bunch of independent stories from different people altogether but its all occurrences from the same family?!?!

Funny how it encompasses all the "genres" like ghosts, cryptozoology , ufos, and witchcraft.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 31, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I'm surprised no one has made a horror movie about this yet. We did get a couple of shitty films based on dyatlov though.



Haha, yeah, I saw one or two fictional films about the Dyatlov Pass, and they were pretty ridiculous. One of them was hypothesizing that there was a time portal there that took modern people back to the 1960's, and demented them into monsters, and then they killed the hikers, or something like that...it wasn't super easy to recall the plot a couple years after seeing it.


----------



## lelandbowman3 (Jul 31, 2017)

takotakumi said:


> fuuuuuug that was spooky but fun to read
> 
> At first I thought it was just a bunch of independent stories from different people altogether but its all occurrences from the same family?!?!
> 
> Funny how it encompasses all the "genres" like ghosts, cryptozoology , ufos, and witchcraft.


Unfortunately, it's my family. As in Leland. Now, these are all stories I heard growing up from my parents and grandparents so I never thought how weird it was to have so much going on. It wasn't until I was older that I realized that not everyone's family has a ton of weird stuff like that.


----------



## MFB (Jul 31, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Haha, yeah, I saw one or two fictional films about the Dyatlov Pass, and they were pretty ridiculous. One of them was hypothesizing that there was a time portal there that took modern people back to the 1960's, and demented them into monsters, and then they killed the hikers, or something like that...it wasn't super easy to recall the plot a couple years after seeing it.



Devil's Pass!

I first heard about the Dyatlov Incident through that movie, kind of blended that with the Philadelphia Experiment. It wasn't awful, but it could've been cooler than it was.


----------



## Demiurge (Jul 31, 2017)

Almost forgot about these, from some recent Wikipedia-ing:

How about the conspiracy that approximately a couple hundred years of history was invented for the hell of it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis

Or that most of history was made up?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Chronology_(Fomenko)


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 31, 2017)

Did anyone mention the Taos hum yet?


----------



## Leviathus (Aug 1, 2017)

I've been going down internet rabbit holes for the last 4 or 5 hours now ever since i clicked this thread, thanks guys...


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 1, 2017)

Leviathus said:


> I've been going down internet rabbit holes for the last 4 or 5 hours now ever since i clicked this thread, thanks guys...


What'd you learn?


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 1, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Did anyone mention the Taos hum yet?


man that's right up there with the sedona portals, such bullshit imo


----------



## Leviathus (Aug 1, 2017)

It was more of a sarcastic/ironic "thanks guys"


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Aug 1, 2017)

Leviathus said:


> I've been going down internet rabbit holes for the last 4 or 5 hours now ever since i clicked this thread, thanks guys...


----------



## lewis (Aug 1, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Did anyone mention the Taos hum yet?


Ive watched videos of that low rumble/humming before. Its incredibly eerie. All over the world too. Very odd.
Its like someone is playing a didgeridoo into our atmosphere.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 1, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> man that's right up there with the sedona portals, such bullshit imo


Not sure how you can tell people that what they are hearing is bullshit, but fair enough.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Aug 1, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Not sure how you can tell people that what they are hearing is bullshit, but fair enough.


I just can't buy into it since people who claim to hear the hum don't even hear the same thing, with some calling it a whir, hum or buzz. There's no consistency in the reporting plus the fact that the vast majority of people can't seem to hear it makes me extremely skeptical. At least with other conspiracy theories the stories are somewhat similar.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 1, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I just can't buy into it since people who claim to hear the hum don't even hear the same thing, with some calling it a whir, hum or buzz. There's no consistency in the reporting plus the fact that the vast majority of people can't seem to hear it makes me extremely skeptical. At least with other conspiracy theories the stories are somewhat similar.


What someone might call a "whir" might be a buzz to someone else. Hearing loss in certain frequencies of the spectrum will also determine someone's hearing. Basically, everyone's body and hearing are different.


----------



## lewis (Aug 1, 2017)

Global "strange noises"/"sonic Booms"/"Mechanical sounds"


----------



## bostjan (Aug 1, 2017)

Demiurge said:


> Almost forgot about these, from some recent Wikipedia-ing:
> 
> How about the conspiracy that approximately a couple hundred years of history was invented for the hell of it?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_time_hypothesis
> ...



If the phantom time theory is true, then Islam would be entirely fabricated by the Catholic Church? I'm not buying that. 

Although, if it were not from astronomical data, I'd give that theory a very close look.



Spaced Out Ace said:


> Did anyone mention the Taos hum yet?



I think that is an interesting phenomenon. A lot of folks (as you saw here) are quick to dismiss it as completely made up, but I think there is a reasonable explanation that isn't just nutty people. Almost all of the observations of humming are from industrialized towns.


----------



## bostjan (Aug 1, 2017)

What about Orang Pendek? Do you think there might be little wild men descended not from Homo Sapiens living somewhere in the Indonesian jungle?


----------



## bostjan (Aug 1, 2017)

What about Orang Pendek? Do you think there might be little wild men descended not from Homo Sapiens living somewhere in the Indonesian jungle?


----------



## Rosal76 (Aug 1, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Did anyone mention the Taos hum yet?



I watched a documentary about that and scientists explain that it is a natural occurrence.

First off, I would like to say that this is what "they" said and not my own opinion and second, I can't explain it in detail the way they explained because I'm not a scientist and it had been some time when I first saw the documentary. Anyways...

The scientists explained that the noises come from two different winds with two different temperatures that are clashing with each other, which in turn, is making the noise. He explained that a lot of people can't believe that, including myself, and then he tells them to listen to volcanoes when they erupt, earth quakes, tidal waves, and tornados when they are active. They make a of lot noise and are louder (than the Taos hum) and they are all natural occurrences.

To show that their theory is correct, they built a contraption which produces two different winds at two different temperatures. Sure enough, you can hear a humming noise from the contraption. Not as loud as the real Taos humming because of the scale, obviously.

Anyways, that's what they said. It was cool to hear a explanation but I'm not believing that's what it is 100%, because I would think, all those hum listeners would feel winds in the locations they are in and plus, not all people can hear it, and so, the investigation continues...


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 1, 2017)

Rosal76 said:


> I watched a documentary about that and scientists explain that it is a natural occurrence.
> 
> First off, I would like to say that this is what "they" said and not my own opinion and second, I can't explain it in detail the way they explained because I'm not a scientist and it had been some time when I first saw the documentary. Anyways...
> 
> ...


Very interesting hypothesis.


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## Rosal76 (Aug 1, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Very interesting hypothesis.



For the humming noises, yes, I can believe that. But then there's the one that sounds like a French horn/tuba going off. I would like to know how winds can produce that. I guess we have one equation present because it takes wind/someone to blow into a French horn/tuba to make it sound off and scientists did say that wind is involved in the humming. Maybe the winds going through a tunnel?


----------



## Explorer (Aug 2, 2017)

bostjan said:


> ...kill people and remove their tongues, but leave everything else in tact....





Rosal76 said:


> When I first read/watched Youtube videos of the case, and they explained about the missing eyes, tongues, and organs, my first immediate reaction is U.F.O.s. Reason why is because of the long history of animal mutilations with their corpse having missing parts done with surgical precision, also.


Wait... which one is it? Only the eyes, or eyes, tongues and organs?


----------



## lewis (Aug 2, 2017)

Explorer said:


> Wait... which one is it? Only the eyes, or eyes, tongues and organs?


the official medical examiner report only states that the frame of the mouth and tongue were absent. There was no mention of it being cut out, removed forcefully and on one hand the report is vague but on the other it isnt. It was simply missing with no signs or evidence to show how or why it was. He does mention about rotting due to water so i guess in his opinion it had rotted away due to be body being in wet conditions.

I read an interesting take on what happened with this and i believe that to be the most sensible and most logical answer to what happened to them. If anyone wants me to type it out i will.

I heard no mention of missing organs and eye sockets were missing eyes but again could have been due to the wet rotting process.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Aug 2, 2017)

Explorer said:


> Wait... which one is it? Only the eyes, or eyes, tongues and organs?


----------



## takotakumi (Aug 2, 2017)

lewis said:


> I read an interesting take on what happened with this and i believe that to be the most sensible and most logical answer to what happened to them. If anyone wants me to type it out i will.



Wanna type it it out


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## bostjan (Aug 2, 2017)

Explorer said:


> Wait... which one is it? Only the eyes, or eyes, tongues and organs?



The eyes of one victim were also missing, but no organs missing other than that.
If you can read Russian, here is the coroner's report:
https://sites.google.com/site/hibinaud/home/akt-issledovania-trupa-dubininoj

In this case, the missing parts could be explained by postmortem decay. The cause of death is still a little sketchy, though. The idea that an avalanche could have caused the deaths has been widespread, but also refuted, as there are a number of inconsistencies with the conjecture (including topographical analysis of the area and where an avalanche would direct material if it were to occur and also the lack of evidence that an avalanche had occurred that year).

I still think that military testing of some sort is a feasible explanation, but it's still creepy either way.


----------



## lewis (Aug 2, 2017)

takotakumi said:


> Wanna type it it out


ok so goes something like:

After the 10th member got Ill and turned around and left, leaving 9:

So on the 9 of them go only they get slightly lost, camping near the summit of a different mountain to the intended target. They set up their tent etc and pitch down for the night. A home made stove with chimney that poked out of the tent (check pictures from the expedition to see this home made contraption set up - its a pretty silly idea and was always very likely to cause issues) is what they used for cooking dinner and warmth.
Seems logical to me that during the night, in an accident, some of the embers fell out of the stove and or the chimney malfunctioned and the Tent was engulfed with thick smoke. Not being able to see properly and coughing/spluttering whilst trying to get the main door open, the team decide to cut their way out (explaining the slashes from the inside>out). In the panic they didnt have time to get fully dressed thinking they would burn to death (explaining why they were mostly under dressed).
(also blood being found in the stomach of 1 body (not sure if it were more bodies) could be explained by smoke inhalation and coughing etc which helps prove this theory)

Thinking the tent was just going to burn down now (seeing as the smoke was likely still thick and pouring from the tent etc) they walked (explains the casual walking footprints from the camp and being underdressed probably physically couldnt run) to the nearest cover (they knew it would be the woodland) in the hope they could create shelter and a fire and keep themselves alive.

So once they reached the Forest, some stayed to try and get a fire going and create some shelter (climbing trees to get branches + possibly looking for something to help them etc hence the tree/branches evidence and the remains of a fire found) whilst the other better dressed (i believe?) ventured further in to the woods to find better shelter and or help. These members of the team likely triggered a small avalanche and were pushed into the ravine falling and suffering internal damage from the fall and getting covered in deep heavy snow and killed (explaining their massive internal injuries/broken ribs etc). When a while passed and these guys didnt return, the ones left trying to start a fire had failed and in a last ditch effort to survive, started to head back towards the site of their tent in the hopes it was still standing and would provide shelter, or the very least their clothes were intact. They never made it back and died in the snow of extreme hypothermia (would explain why they were all facing the direction of the tent)

when the bodies were found, they had been in a very damp state for a period of time from melted snow/ice which explains eyes and tongue in one having rotted completely away etc. (there was no evidence of it being ripped out as the talked about story claims)

regards to the 3 items of clothing having radiation, all 3 belonged to 2 separate members of the team who had both worked previous jobs which would easily explain this (working with nuclear stuff etc etc)

think that about sums it up. I may have missed some of the evidence but this is the jist of what happened to them imo

EDIT: This also explains how the bodies were in different places from each other


----------



## bostjan (Aug 2, 2017)

Cool idea. 

The only flaw I see is that the tent was pretty small, so something must have obstructed their exit as well. It also doesn't explain why some of the party removed clothing outside of the tent, but if they were suffering from hypothermia, there may have been paradoxical undressing.

The explanation of blood around the mouths of some of the victims might be better explained by skin broken by severe cold, I think, since smoke inhalation rarely causes coughing up of blood in acute cases like would be in this scenario.

Certainly the "smoking stove" scenario could explain a great deal of what happened.


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## Rosal76 (Aug 2, 2017)

Explorer said:


> Wait... which one is it? Only the eyes, or eyes, tongues and organs?



My mistake guys. Sorry. No organs removed. It's just been a long time since I've read/watched anything on the Dyatlov Pass, I didn't recheck my info.


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## will_shred (Aug 3, 2017)

Video evidence of bigfoot 

*
*


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## lewis (Aug 3, 2017)

will_shred said:


> Video evidence of bigfoot
> 
> **


----------



## lelandbowman3 (Aug 7, 2017)

'Member the HAARP Machine??


----------



## mongey (Aug 7, 2017)

I was reading the other day about the earth is flat theories. 

That's is some wacky shit but interesting.


----------



## Demiurge (Aug 7, 2017)

mongey said:


> I was reading the other day about the earth is flat theories.



I wonder if flat-earthers get into it often with the hollow earth people. Or do they compromise- the earth is a hat-box?


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## bostjan (Aug 7, 2017)

The Earth is shaped like a middle school origami fortune teller. 

The "Flat Earth" people are some of the least rational people out there. There is so much evidence that the Earth is not flat, that anyone aware of this evidence who still thinks the Earth is flat is simply obtuse. Time zones, different seasons, images from space, lunar eclipses, the fact that you can only see the tops of far away ships on the ocean, the fact that it gets colder when you go closer to the poles - hell, the fact that there are poles, the way a compass works, etc...

At least with the "Hollow Earth" scenario, you can use your imagination and explain away most rudimentary knowledge that points to a solid sphere-shape.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 7, 2017)

It's from 1988, but is one of my favorite JFK assassination related programs.


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## mongey (Aug 7, 2017)

a was also recently reading about the Bernstein bears/mandela effect theories 

only skimmed the surface, have a few you tube vids short cutted to watch on it when I'm feeling up to it , but its out right out there with the flat earthers


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 7, 2017)

mongey said:


> a was also recently reading about the Bernstein bears/mandela effect theories
> 
> only skimmed the surface, have a few you tube vids short cutted to watch on it when I'm feeling up to it , but its out right out there with the flat earthers


It's Berenstain.


----------



## mongey (Aug 7, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> It's Berenstain.


thats not how I remember it


----------



## MFB (Aug 7, 2017)

mongey said:


> thats not how I remember it



Which is exactly the point of the Mandala Effect that you were reading about?


----------



## mongey (Aug 7, 2017)

MFB said:


> Which is exactly the point of the Mandala Effect that you were reading about?


indeed

I was being a bit of a smart arse. I'm actually not familiar with there bears at all from my childhood . I have heard of them but have no idea how it was originally spelled back in the day before ,


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## M3CHK1LLA (Aug 8, 2017)

new news on jack the ripper...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...nfirmed/ar-AApE5bf?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 8, 2017)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> new news on jack the ripper...
> 
> http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...nfirmed/ar-AApE5bf?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp


I was watching the American Ripper show on History channel and they showed off some interesting details like how H.H Holmes' aliases appeared on multiple ship manifests/logbooks as a passenger to england, with one of his aliases leaving right after the canonical 5 kills. They also referenced the removal of the uterus and some other organs from the prostitutes. Plus the writer of the From Hell letter has an American writing style/syntax with details not known by the public such as the taking of an ear from one of the prostitutes. There was also an account of a man who was boarding in whitechapel that came back to his room in the middle of the night with his surgeon's bag right after one of the murders. When he left in the morning the boardinghouse owner checked the bag and found bloody knives/shirt cuffs with the surgeon's bag. The boarder never returned for the bag. The show also had an FBI sketch artist do a composite sketch based off of eyewitness descriptions of jack the ripper, with the composite looking quite like H.H holmes. Personally I think the holmes theory is plausible though some of the evidence they presented like passenger manifests and the composite sketches are unreliable. The canonical 5 kills show a progression in brutality with mutilations to face/body being more prevalent on later victims, which is explained as someone doing that to throw police off the fact that they were harvesting organs. Given the fact that Holmes was killing people in Chicago for their skeletons/organs etc to sell to medical schools, it's not improbable that he could have done the same thing in london.


----------



## Unleash The Fury (Aug 10, 2017)

Anything on the history channel is pure propaganda meant to make you think that they are filling you in on all the secrets but there is so much they leave out, on any given topic. On any given program about any given subject. They barely skim the surface as far as details go and usually point fingers at the wrong people. Leaving out many important figures that slip under the radar.

The powers that be knows that there are people out there who are digging deeper and deeper into these stories and these people are slowly uncovering truths. So the history channel wants to put a damper on these people so they give them these watered-down rescripted stories and repackage them as "look weve exposed these criminals stay tuned to learn who!". And thats it. People watch the history channel and walk away from the tv not wanting to dig deeper and learn more, but that they feel relaxed and satisfied and theyve learned everything they need to know and everything is going to be ok.

For example when they did the programs on the vatican and all the "conspiracies to take down and tarnish the vatican". But in reality it is the vatican that that is conspiring against the world by fomenting wars and such. It doesnt take much to read behind the lines to see whats going on. Its all in the symbolism. Im wasting my time doing this but im just bored! 

The world is so fucked up because it is literally in the hands of a few psycopathic groups.


----------



## tedtan (Aug 11, 2017)

Unleash The Fury said:


> Anything on the history channel is pure propaganda meant to make you think that they are filling you in on all the secrets but there is so much they leave out, on any given topic. On any given program about any given subject. They barely skim the surface as far as details go and usually point fingers at the wrong people. Leaving out many important figures that slip under the radar.



When did they do this?

I thought the History Channel was all bullshit "reality" TV these days (like American Pickers, Pawn Stars, Swamp People, etc.).


----------



## vilk (Aug 11, 2017)

mongey said:


> a was also recently reading about the Bernstein bears/mandela effect theories



C3PO has a fucking silver foot.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 11, 2017)

vilk said:


> C3PO has a fucking silver foot.


Are you assuming C3PO's metal alloys?! 

frymeme.jpg.png


----------



## bostjan (Aug 11, 2017)

vilk said:


> C3PO has a fucking silver foot.


Lucas changed so many details large and small in Star Wars, that I think anything to do with those films should be immune from the Mandela Effect. I still swear Han shot first... 

But...who said, in _Snow White and the Seven Dwarves_, "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?"
Nobody. Look it up, the most famous quote of the movie isn't actually what people (read: everyone) remember(s).







Speaking of _The Twilight Zone_, anyone remember this episode? http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0734670/


----------



## Unleash The Fury (Aug 11, 2017)

tedtan said:


> When did they do this?
> 
> I thought the History Channel was all bullshit "reality" TV these days (like American Pickers, Pawn Stars, Swamp People, etc.).



I should have been more clear and specific. Im refering to programs like ancient aliens. Ive seen documentaries on the da vinci code, which is tied in with the vatican


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 12, 2017)

bostjan said:


> The Earth is shaped like a middle school origami fortune teller.
> 
> The "Flat Earth" people are some of the least rational people out there. There is so much evidence that the Earth is not flat, that anyone aware of this evidence who still thinks the Earth is flat is simply obtuse. Time zones, different seasons, images from space, lunar eclipses, the fact that you can only see the tops of far away ships on the ocean, the fact that it gets colder when you go closer to the poles - hell, the fact that there are poles, the way a compass works, etc...
> 
> At least with the "Hollow Earth" scenario, you can use your imagination and explain away most rudimentary knowledge that points to a solid sphere-shape.



If you are going to defend the globe, note that none of this^ does it.
You may have visited The Flat Earth Society, which is a disinformation site designed to be ridiculous. FE Theory easily explains everything you listed. It may be garbage, but it's not the slam dunk you think


----------



## lewis (Aug 12, 2017)

just a quick one regards to Star Wars.
Firstly Han should have always just murdered greedo. It suits his bad ass character better. Dumb they changed that later.

2ndly. I view the Jedi as the villains and depending on perspective its easy to see them as bad.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 12, 2017)

Jar Jar is evil genius


----------



## iliketofish (Aug 12, 2017)

Here it is guys: Tower 7 did not collapse by fire, bigfoot is real, the earth is round, Al mumin controls the weather


----------



## lewis (Aug 12, 2017)

iliketofish said:


> Here it is guys: *Tower 7 did not collapse by fire*, bigfoot is real, the earth is round, Al mumin controls the weather



one of the many things that make you think "If this part of the story isnt real then none of the story is real"


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 12, 2017)

lewis said:


> one of the many things that make you think "If this part of the story isnt real then none of the story is real"


You mean the Pilot episode of The Lone Gunmen, released months prior, doesn't make you think the whole story isn't real?


----------



## Rosal76 (Aug 12, 2017)

Not a conspiracy theory but I thought some of you guys who enjoy history may like this. In 2010, an individual purchased a tintype (photograph) which he believes that Billy the Kid is in. He did a lot of research on it and "they", the experts, say that it is indeed, Billy in the picture. The photo has been insured for 5 millions dollars, making it one of the most expensive photos in the world.


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## bostjan (Aug 14, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> If you are going to defend the globe, note that none of this^ does it.
> You may have visited The Flat Earth Society, which is a disinformation site designed to be ridiculous. FE Theory easily explains everything you listed. It may be garbage, but it's not the slam dunk you think


No. I stand by my statements in the post, excluding the obviously sarcastic one. FE Theory does not offer any reasonable explanation for any of those phenomena.

Also, slightly different topic: TIME CUBE!

Anyone here aware of time cube? I know the site was taken down a couple years ago, but it was clearly the most moronic pseudoscience I had ever laid my eyes upon, yet so entertaining. In the days of truthiness and abandonment of proof, I could see time cube taking off as a new religion.


----------



## tedtan (Aug 14, 2017)

Unleash The Fury said:


> I should have been more clear and specific. Im refering to programs like ancient aliens. Ive seen documentaries on the da vinci code, which is tied in with the vatican



I was being a smartass because History Channel, like Discovery, etc., has gone down hill over the past 5-10 years due to all the "reality" TV programming. They used to be much more interesting.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 15, 2017)

bostjan said:


> No. I stand by my statements in the post, excluding the obviously sarcastic one. FE Theory does not offer any reasonable explanation for any of those phenomena.



You mean these points? You basically only made 2; weather and boats on the horizon
Time zones
different seasons
images from space
lunar eclipses

the fact that it gets colder when you go closer to the poles 
the fact that there are poles
the way a compass works
​So the logic here is that only a spinning globe can produce weather variance & a magnetic pole?
You don't have to research FE theory to see the flaw in this proof. 


the fact that you can only see the tops of far away ships on the ocean​This is the core reason that people hundreds of years ago determined the globe. In fact, you throwing that out there like it is a slam dunk proof only shows the level of mainstream indoctrination that you- and all of us- are influenced by. This proof has been debunked countless times in recent years...
Fast Forward to 2017 and the newer cameras have zoom lens showing that a boat that appears to disappear on the horizon is actually just moving out of your view. The zoom can bring it right back into full view- meaning that the old boat disappearing on the horizon proof is garbage.

I'm not saying it's definitely Flat, but I am saying that we tend to parrot when we learned in school. Take a closer look at places other than the science Guy and NDT


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 15, 2017)

Simulated Universe Theory goes well with Mandela Effect...and opens the door for basically every conspiracy out there


----------



## TheKindred (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> You mean these points? You basically only made 2; weather and boats on the horizon
> Time zones
> different seasons
> images from space
> ...



so straight up ... I don't know shit about FE Theory outside all the parody and satire, but given the fact that you can look at the other planets (at least 5 easily) and can see that they are all round spheres out there in space orbiting a spherical star, what reason would this one random planet just be a flat disc?


----------



## bostjan (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> You mean these points? You basically only made 2; weather and boats on the horizon
> Time zones
> different seasons
> images from space
> ...


That's rubbish. I don't believe for one second that a zoom lens would work differently than a telescope, and I see no documentation.

Also, you don't address any of the other points that you can supposedly refute so easily.

The Earth is round, it's easily proven. Stamping your feet and saying that there are easy ways to explain that the proofs are debunked is not going to make it not so.

Give me something real here.


----------



## bostjan (Aug 15, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> so straight up ... I don't know shit about FE Theory outside all the parody and satire, but given the fact that you can look at the other planets (at least 5 easily) and can see that they are all round spheres out there in space orbiting a spherical star, what reason would this one random planet just be a flat disc?


That's why I brought up lunar eclipses. The shadow of the Earth is a circle, as it is cast on the moon, which appears as a circle in the sky. How do you explain that away as if the Earth is flat?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 15, 2017)

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold the fucking phone! Is someone seriously arguing that flat earth theory is onto something?







You must be higher than Ace Frehley, my dude.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 15, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> so straight up ...* I don't know shit about FE Theory outside all the parody and satire*, but given the fact that you can look at the other planets (at least 5 easily) and can *see that they are all round spheres out there in space* orbiting a spherical star, what reason would this one random planet just be a flat disc?


How do you discern conclusively that it is a 3 dimensional sphere vs a round ball of light?
And if was proven as spheres, that does not prove that we are on a sphere. That's like a pool table thinking it is a sphere because all it sees is balls on it.



bostjan said:


> That's rubbish. I don't believe for one second that a zoom lens would work differently than a telescope, and I see no documentation.


There's plenty of videos out there zooming into boats on the horizon. You would need to argue that the boat is not yet on the curve in these videos, but that still doesn't help the original argument- human eyes see a boat disappearing thus the earth is a globe. That was taken care of back in 2015ish.



bostjan said:


> The Earth is round, it's easily proven. Stamping your feet and saying that there are easy ways to explain that the proofs are debunked is not going to make it not so.
> .


I agree the earth is likely round. Note that round does not equal globe.
No stamping feet, just saying that your boat proof is now an old wives tale in today's world and weather patterns are nonsensical.



bostjan said:


> That's why I brought up lunar eclipses. The shadow of the Earth is a circle, as it is cast on the moon, which appears as a circle in the sky. How do you explain that away as if the Earth is flat?



Are you saying an eclipse could only happen on a globe model? I can think of many other ways something like that can occur. Consider that the Astronomical Society has presented 50+ times that the sun and moon were above the horizon during an eclipse...meaning that they are not lined up like pool balls like our 3rd grade teacher told us. You'd have to buy into mysterious refraction arguments which seem super sketchy. I vote Black Hole Sun.



Spaced Out Ace said:


> Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold the fucking phone! Is someone seriously arguing that flat earth theory is onto something?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## odibrom (Aug 15, 2017)

bostjan said:


> That's why I brought up lunar eclipses. The shadow of the Earth is a circle, as it is cast on the moon, which appears as a circle in the sky. How do you explain that away as if the Earth is flat?



The Earth is flat and a disk?... (obvious joke for those not aware...)


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


>


----------



## TheKindred (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> How do you discern conclusively that it is a 3 dimensional sphere vs a round ball of light?
> And if was proven as spheres, that does not prove that we are on a sphere. That's like a pool table thinking it is a sphere because all it sees is balls on it.



but...but...but.... you can watch them spin, so not exactly like a pool table. Also, my argument wasn't that if all the others are spheres (more or less) it proves that Earth is, but rather why wouldn't earth also be given that all the rest in the solar system (and most other physical objects) we can see floating around out there are?

You're trolling, right? I don't mind cause it's fun to play along, but .... trolololol?


----------



## Demiurge (Aug 15, 2017)

The flat earth stuff seems like a deliberately-cute, intellectual parlor trick that has inexplicably been taken seriously. _Ah ha ha_- we know that science hasn't revealed all and that the establishment can be stiff and dogmatic, but jamming wholly-synthesized & invented cosmologies through the knowledge gaps and claiming a conspiracy of suppression (as always) can mean nothing more to a serious person than trying to get a rise.

The simulated universe theory is a similar parlor trick, but it has the same problem as religion: ugh, why make this?


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 15, 2017)

It's ironic that you view the simulated universe theory as a parlor trick. Note that this theory is posited by mainstream science, not FE:
http://www.businessinsider.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-thinks-the-universe-might-be-a-simulation-2016-12


So essentially, we agree. NDT is a actor/charlatan.

We may need to back up a step here....do people here believe in the Moon landings? If yes, then I guess we'll just go back to Big Foot and Lochness.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 15, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> but...but...but.... you can watch them spin, so not exactly like a pool table. Also, my argument wasn't that if all the others are spheres (more or less) it proves that Earth is, but rather why wouldn't earth also be given that all the rest in the solar system (and most other physical objects) we can see floating around out there are?
> 
> You're trolling, right? I don't mind cause it's fun to play along, but .... trolololol?


No troll, but if it helps you sleep at night to believe so, have at it!

I see pretty lights in the sky. The only "planets" we see in detail are shown to us. Tough to argue this proves globe.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 15, 2017)

Is this dude a parody account? I'm sorry, but holy hell.


----------



## TheKindred (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> No troll, but if it helps you sleep at night to believe so, have at it!
> 
> I see pretty lights in the sky. The only "planets" we see in detail are shown to us. Tough to argue this proves globe.



Use a telescope. They're cheap and let you see more than a 'pretty light'. Hell, use your fancy zoom lens and you can take a timelapse of the moon turning. Your argument is akin to me looking a billiard table from a mile away and asserting it's an ant.


----------



## Demiurge (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> It's ironic that you view the simulated universe theory as a parlor trick. Note that this theory is posited by mainstream science, not FE:
> http://www.businessinsider.com/neil-degrasse-tyson-thinks-the-universe-might-be-a-simulation-2016-12
> 
> 
> ...



Oh, I'm aware that the mainstream has given it credence (though no one's saying it's proven), but unlike FE it doesn't absolutely rely on a cosmology that is specifically contradicted by empirical science. 

There are levels to things. Take Big Foot for example: the existence of a large, forest-dwelling critter that evaded credible observation- unlikely but technically not implausible; but, when people say that Big Foot is an alien- eh, we've jumped a few steps. Compare that to our current understanding of space & time: the nature of the universe might be of an unexpected provenance that is somewhat akin to our concept of computer simulations- unlikely (I'd say) but technically not implausible; but to say that everything we've been told is wrong and that there is a conspiracy to withhold the truth of how things work (and, conveniently, it is _____), again, we've jumped a few steps, have gone off the reservation, and Occam will likely not invite us back.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 15, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is this dude a parody account? I'm sorry, but holy hell.


Apology Declined


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Apology Declined


It wasn't sincere anyways, Icke.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 15, 2017)

I think to point in this thread you need some kind of belief in the possibility of something in the fringes

If you're a 100% One Shot Killed JFK type, I'm not sure you belong here


----------



## MFB (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I think to point in this thread you need some kind of belief in the possibility of something in the fringes
> 
> If you're a 100% One Shot Killed JFK type, I'm not sure you belong here



Its almost like there's various degrees of skepticism and suspension of disbelief that different people subscribe to


----------



## MFB (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I think to point in this thread you need some kind of belief in the possibility of something in the fringes
> 
> If you're a 100% One Shot Killed JFK type, I'm not sure you belong here



Its almost like there's various degrees of skepticism and suspension of disbelief that different people subscribe to


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I think to point in this thread you need some kind of belief in the possibility of something in the fringes
> 
> If you're a 100% One Shot Killed JFK type, I'm not sure you belong here


Eh... everyone is a one shot killed JFK type, though. The headshot is what killed him; the throat wound wouldn't have killed him, and neither would the back shot 5" or so below the neckline. What you meant, however, was "Magic Bullet theory type." Or "lone gunman." I am not a lone gunman magic bullet theory type. That said, I think there is a little more room for doubt than the Earth being a flat disc or whatever. I don't believe the "everything is a projection/simulation" or whatever theory, but it is intriguing at least.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 15, 2017)

We should have Conspiracy levels detailed out.. 

Family Fun: Big Foot, Lochness, UFOs
Entry Level: JFK
Mid Level: Moon Missions, Simulated Universe
Intense YouTubing: 9/11, Chester-Cornell- Pizzagate
Crazy Talk: Reptilian Shape Shifters
Tin Hatters: Flat Earth, Mandela Effect


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 15, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> We should have Conspiracy levels detailed out..
> 
> Family Fun: Big Foot, Lochness, UFOs
> Entry Level: JFK
> ...


The moon missions were FAKE. 9/11 was staged. That said, I'm not sure what Chester Bennington and Chris Cornell have to do with conspiracy theories, mainly because I haven't looked into much of that in quite awhile, though I think you forgot Prince. Were they blood sacrifices or something?


----------



## TheKindred (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I think to point in this thread you need some kind of belief in the possibility of something in the fringes
> 
> If you're a 100% One Shot Killed JFK type, I'm not sure you belong here



The fun in conspiracy is when there is reasonable doubt, feasibility or just plain interesting. Just making shit up, refusing to acknowledge blatant proofs and dictating who can speculate 'correctly' is not. You're just being obtuse at this point. Maybe make your own thread where you can be supreme overlord of open mindedness that is only valid when it's contrarian.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

You are certain the Moon Missions are fake... so the same people who did that (NASA) have done many things since. Where do you stand on that? Perpetual Liars & Thieves or Moon Hoax was an isolated crime?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> You are certain the Moon Missions are fake... so the same people who did that (NASA) have done many things since. Where do you stand on that? Perpetual Liars & Thieves or Moon Hoax was an isolated crime?


I think the Apollo missions were faked. If others disagree, then more power to them.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> The fun in conspiracy is when there is reasonable doubt, feasibility or just plain interesting. Just making shit up, refusing to acknowledge blatant proofs and dictating who can speculate 'correctly' is not. You're just being obtuse at this point. Maybe make your own thread where you can be supreme overlord of open mindedness that is only valid when it's contrarian.



Funny how you mention obtuse. You listed 0 facts in this rant
Sorry this has you all jacked up


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I think the Apollo missions were faked. If others disagree, then more power to them.


What about the rest of their work for the next 50 years?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> What about the rest of their work for the next 50 years?


"If others disagree, more power to them" was hinting at the fact I don't care to have a back and forth over this. No one will change the other person's mind, so the point in debating it is useless.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

You don't believe in Moon Missions but anything else you'd rather type a non-answer reply of apathy than just answering the question? 

I guess that means don't know/don't care
That's cool we all think differently- for me that's an odd outlook


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> Just making shit up, refusing to acknowledge blatant proofs and dictating who can speculate 'correctly' is not.


Is this anti-NASA or anti-FE? Tough to tell here


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> You don't believe in Moon Missions but anything else you'd rather type a non-answer reply of apathy than just answering the question?
> 
> I guess that means don't know/don't care
> That's cool we all think differently- for me that's an odd outlook


I was very clear in my previous answer. "The Apollo missions were faked." That was very specific and not a "non-answer." If you wish to keep asking the same question, that's on you. I don't care to have a back and forth, which I also pointed out in my initial statement. I also pointed out that no one will be swayed one way or the other from having a back and forth debate about it, so it's of no use. If you don't like that, then I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Is this anti-NASA or anti-FE? Tough to tell here


Now you're just getting petty.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I was very clear in my previous answer. "The Apollo missions were faked." That was very specific and not a "non-answer." If you wish to keep asking the same question, that's on you. I don't care to have a back and forth, which I also pointed out in my initial statement. I also pointed out that no one will be swayed one way or the other from having a back and forth debate about it, so it's of no use. If you don't like that, then I don't know what to tell you.



Not sure if you are deliberately avoiding or just overlooking...3rd time:
The question: do you believe in NASA after the Moon Missions?

Not trying to sway anyone, just curious if you think that was an isolated hoax


----------



## TheKindred (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Funny how you mention obtuse. You listed 0 facts in this rant
> Sorry this has you all jacked up



Nice try trolololol. 

"Moon and planets are just pretty lights in the sky"

You resort to facts and I'll return the favour.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> Nice try trolololol.
> 
> "Moon and planets are just pretty lights in the sky"
> 
> You resort to facts and I'll return the favour.



Declined
For those interested in a positive discussion, I'll engage. It goes way deeper than you would think if you never delved into it.
But I sense too much anger here, so no


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

Not sure if you are deliberately avoiding or just overlooking:
I was very clear in my previous answer. *"The Apollo missions were faked."* That was very specific and not a "non-answer." _If you wish to keep asking the same question, that's on you._ *I don't care to have a back and forth, which I also pointed out in my initial statement.* I also pointed out that *no one will be swayed one way or the other from having a back and forth debate about it, so it's of no use.* If you don't like that, then I don't know what to tell you.

Added emphasis to make it absolutely crystal clear for you, since you are either avoiding or overlooking what I am typing to you. Pft. Parody accounts.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> Nice try trolololol.
> 
> "Moon and planets are just pretty lights in the sky"
> 
> You resort to facts and I'll return the favour.


This guy is a parody account. You won't get facts.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

It's not the back & forth you dislike as evidenced by your posting continuously on a forum about how you don't wish to reply

It's the question I posed 3 times above that continues to go strangely unanswered 
Whatever, the question was not a sneak attack but a natural follow up. I'm guessing you never considered it. Not any bigger than that.

Nice discovery on the false account! I conspired 10 years ago to post a few hundred gear replies before unleashing my wicked plan to make you answer a NASA credibility question in a Conspiracy thread 
I almost got away with it!


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

It's not the back & forth you dislike as evidenced by your posting continuously on a forum about how you don't wish to reply

It's the question I posed 3 times above that continues to go strangely unanswered 
Whatever, the question was not a sneak attack but a natural follow up. I'm guessing you never considered it. Not any bigger than that.

Nice discovery on the false account! I conspired 10 years ago to post a few hundred gear replies before unleashing my wicked plan to make you answer a NASA credibility question in a Conspiracy thread 
I almost got away with it!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> It's not the back & forth you dislike as evidenced by your posting continuously on a forum about how you don't wish to reply
> 
> It's the question I posed 3 times above that continues to go strangely unanswered
> Whatever, the question was not a sneak attack but a natural follow up. I'm guessing you never considered it. Not any bigger than that.
> ...


@1:40


You'll get the answer to that question, Mr. Bender, next Saturday. Don't mess with the bull, young man - you'll get the horns.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

Out of that whole cast of characters, that guy is the one you identify with? Holy Crap. We are two very different people you & I.
I think our business has concludeth.

Anybody want to chat Conspiracy in a Conspiracy thread?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Out of that whole cast of characters, that guy is the one you identify with? Holy Crap. We are two very different people you & I.
> *I think our business has concludeth.*
> 
> Anybody want to chat Conspiracy in a Conspiracy thread?






And I'd love to discuss conspiracy theories with a similar belief regarding an event [such as RFK or something I haven't looked into endlessly like JFK] to see their take on it and what they know regarding the subject. I have zero interest in trying to one up someone who thinks the earth is flat and has called stars, the moon, etc. "pretty lights."


----------



## marcwormjim (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Out of that whole cast of characters, that guy is the one you identify with? Holy Crap. We are two very different people you & I.
> I think our business has concludeth.
> 
> Anybody want to chat Conspiracy in a Conspiracy thread?



What are your feelings regarding the Cadbury Creme Eggs gradually becoming smaller in the US market?


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

But RFK connects to JFK connects to Moon Hoax connects to FE theory

Best for you to stay away before you blow a gasket


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> What are your feelings regarding the Cadbury Creme Eggs gradually becoming smaller in the US market?


Seems to be a profit motivated issue. Next!


----------



## bostjan (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> There's plenty of videos out there zooming into boats on the horizon. You would need to argue that the boat is not yet on the curve in these videos, but that still doesn't help the original argument- human eyes see a boat disappearing thus the earth is a globe. That was taken care of back in 2015ish.



Honestly, WTF? You look at a boat far away on the ocean, and the bottom part of the boat disappears below the horizon, therefore the ocean is not flat, but rather curves downward. It's very basic stuff. If a not-as-far-away boat does not have as much of it disappearing below the horizon, and you assume that it proves that the ocean is flat, despite the farther boat disappearing below the horizon, then you are an idiot.




crankyrayhanky said:


> I agree the earth is likely round. Note that round does not equal globe.
> No stamping feet, just saying that your boat proof is now an old wives tale in today's world and weather patterns are nonsensical.



You did not explain how weather patterns are nonsensical. I think you are merely giving the impression that you don't understand some basic things.



crankyrayhanky said:


> Are you saying an eclipse could only happen on a globe model? I can think of many other ways something like that can occur. Consider that the Astronomical Society has presented 50+ times that the sun and moon were above the horizon during an eclipse...meaning that they are not lined up like pool balls like our 3rd grade teacher told us. You'd have to buy into mysterious refraction arguments which seem super sketchy. I vote Black Hole Sun.



The Sun has never ever ever been above the horizon during a visible lunar eclipse. Nothing you are saying is grounded in reality.


----------



## takotakumi (Aug 16, 2017)

What about the one of the end of the world ending this upcoming Sept 23?
Just heard it from a friend the other day who says that all his roomate does is watch conspiracy documentaries and 
that he truly believes our would will end Sept 23. 
Anyone know the basis for this one? Gonna try to dig up a bit.

Reminded me of the "2012 end of the world" or back in 2001 (or 2000?) when people started killing themselves thinking the world was going to end :v


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

takotakumi said:


> What about the one of the end of the world ending this upcoming Sept 23?
> Just heard it from a friend the other day who says that all his roomate does is watch conspiracy documentaries and
> that he truly believes our would will end Sept 23.
> Anyone know the basis for this one? Gonna try to dig up a bit.
> ...


Probably more bullshit about Nibiru. They've been saying that crap for years.


----------



## takotakumi (Aug 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Probably more bullshit about Nibiru. They've been saying that crap for years.


Just did a little search and yeah most pointed out to Nibiru.

Asked my friend again about his roomate asking about Nibiru too but apparently 
that guy believes in a different one based on an upcoming rapture haha


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

takotakumi said:


> Just did a little search and yeah most pointed out to Nibiru.
> 
> Asked my friend again about his roomate asking about Nibiru too but apparently
> that guy believes in a different one based on an upcoming rapture haha


Oh lawwdd!


----------



## bostjan (Aug 16, 2017)

Whoever says the world will end on XYZ date has exactly 0% correct prediction rate, 

I mean, there is an entire religion based off of the prediction that the world would end in 1914. Nothing happened on the predicted date, yet the religion is strong as ever. 

I'm much more keen to listen to stuff about space aliens, bigfoot, government conspiracy, etc., than ghosts or the apocalypse.


----------



## TheKindred (Aug 16, 2017)

bostjan said:


> I'm much more keen to listen to stuff about space aliens, bigfoot, government conspiracy, etc., than ghosts or the apocalypse.



what about Space Ghost's though?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> what about Space Ghost's though?


You leave Space Ghost outta this!


----------



## bostjan (Aug 16, 2017)

Only if we can also talk about Astro and the Space Mutts.


----------



## narad (Aug 16, 2017)

lewis said:


> will get obvious stick as anyone always does but Im massive on these and first and foremost is 9/11
> 
> ...
> 3rd big one for me was Sandy Hook school shooting. That was one of the most blatant false flag incidents to push through the new legislation on gun law, ive ever seen. There were even errors with actors that had been used before in other "events", getting recognized. A dad of one of the apparent "victims" was caught laughing and joking right before an Interview was due to start and you literally see him get into character. Was a joke.
> That and everything around the suspect and his family is blatant BS.



Man, this is just sad. I don't mind people trying to build up alternative stories to the loch ness monster or things that have no real impact, but it's pretty shitty to take the death of a bunch of children and dedicate the time and effort to try to make it political. And simultaneously laughable the government would have the competence to pull it off, but then really messed up by...posting webpages early, hiring incompetent actors, etc.


----------



## lewis (Aug 16, 2017)

narad said:


> Man, this is just sad. I don't mind people trying to build up alternative stories to the loch ness monster or things that have no real impact, but it's pretty shitty to take the death of a bunch of children and dedicate the time and effort to try to make it political. And simultaneously laughable the government would have the competence to pull it off, but then really messed up by...posting webpages early, hiring incompetent actors, etc.


I dont get your point tbh.
are you saying its sad that they would go to such lengths to push through new gun laws (given how pro guns the USA are they needed something brutal to tug at heart strings to pull it off)
or are you saying its sad that I would say thats what happened? i.e you believe it was genuine event?
To which I would say go and research thoroughly. You will see it was blatantly staged.


----------



## narad (Aug 16, 2017)

lewis said:


> I dont get your point tbh.
> are you saying its sad that they would go to such lengths to push through new gun laws (given how pro guns the USA are they needed something brutal to tug at heart strings to pull it off)
> or are you saying its sad that I would say thats what happened? i.e you believe it was genuine event?
> To which I would say go and research thoroughly. You will see it was blatantly staged.



Yes, I'm saying it's clearly not staged, and there are many pages that have more-elaborate-than-necessary point-by-point discussions. It says a lot about the type of person someone is that they go around trying to construct a counter narrative that fits their super weird perception of what other people in the world want to do. More to the people that originally thought to build up a hoax story around this than you for believing what they've constructed, but still. 

I mean, I'd really hate to be an innocent person on trial with some of these guys in the jury! "He was smiling, but like too big, looked like he was trying to put on a performance...guilty!"


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

Conversely, there's a few people in here that would make awful detectives 
"I said this case is closed, nothing more to see here!"


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

Conversely, there's a few people in here that would make awful detectives
"I said this case is closed, nothing more to see here!"


----------



## lewis (Aug 16, 2017)

narad said:


> Yes, I'm saying it's clearly not staged, and there are many pages that have more-elaborate-than-necessary point-by-point discussions. It says a lot about the type of person someone is that they go around trying to construct a counter narrative that fits their super weird perception of what other people in the world want to do. More to the people that originally thought to build up a hoax story around this than you for believing what they've constructed, but still.
> 
> I mean, I'd really hate to be an innocent person on trial with some of these guys in the jury! "He was smiling, but like too big, looked like he was trying to put on a performance...guilty!"


thats fair enough. I take your point.


----------



## narad (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Conversely, there's a few people in here that would make awful detectives
> "I said this case is closed, nothing more to see here!"



A good detective needs to find substantive evidence. Since conspiracies often have none, and conspiracy deniers don't attempt to find new evidence at all, I don't think there are any good detectives here!


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

narad said:


> A good detective needs to find substantive evidence. Since *conspiracies often have none*, and conspiracy deniers don't attempt to find new evidence at all, I don't think there are any good detectives here!


So....people usually don't get together to conspire on things, or when they do they leave no evidence of this collaboration?

How exactly did you find your way into this thread?


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Honestly, WTF? You look at a boat far away on the ocean, and the bottom part of the boat disappears below the horizon, therefore the ocean is not flat, but rather curves downward. It's very basic stuff. If a not-as-far-away boat does not have as much of it disappearing below the horizon, and you assume that it proves that the ocean is flat, despite the farther boat disappearing below the horizon, then you are an idiot.
> 
> You did not explain how weather patterns are nonsensical. I think you are merely giving the impression that you don't understand some basic things.
> 
> *The Sun has never ever ever been above the horizon during a visible lunar eclipse*. Nothing you are saying is grounded in reality.


I was about to reply to each of your points, but the hostility here is curious. Funny how people can get worked up with all that angry Globe love. 
If someone actually is curious and knows how to communicate respectfully, I'll engage. Otherwise, try The Google
For the record you are silly wrong on every point, especially on the eclipse. 



lewis said:


> I dont get your point tbh.
> are you saying its sad that they would go to such lengths to push through new gun laws (given how pro guns the USA are they needed something brutal to tug at heart strings to pull it off)
> or are you saying its sad that I would say thats what happened? i.e you believe it was genuine event?
> To which I would say go and research thoroughly. You will see it was blatantly staged.


There's enough shady facts about this case to warrant an exploration. Was it real or hoax, IDK but to say it's off limits to discuss seems very dangerous....unless you love and trust all in power all the time.


----------



## narad (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> So....people usually don't get together to conspire on things, or when they do they leave no evidence of this collaboration?
> 
> How exactly did you find your way into this thread?



1. Do people get together to conspire on things? Sure. But the larger the group of people, the less likely it is to succeed. So when talking about conspiracies that would involve hundreds if not thousands of people from all different aspects of life -- different ages and demographics -- it because increasingly unlikely. Balance the obvious difficulty of pulling that off together with motive, which is usually comes up short. That's why things like the moon landing I can at least say, hey, they had the means and the motive to fake it. You still have to have a certain lack of faith in people, but at least I don't see any reason why it's immediately implausible.

2. Do they leave no evidence? If it happens at a large scale, you'd think they'd leave evidence. Real evidence. Not smiling before an interview to talk about your dead daughter. Not supposedly seeing a photo of a dead girl making the devil's hand sign as a secret shoutout. What's funny too is the pick-and-choose. Even conspiracy theorists will threshold at some point and dismiss a couple supposed signs of conspiracy, because they always go so far as to become numerology and looking for symbols in paintings on the wall in the back of a photo of one of the people, etc. So what kind of evidence is important. Let's say we take a conspiracy theory to court so-to-speak. All the evidence is almost always circumstantial, and never truly substantive.

Common sense though. If you want to pull off the sandy hook conspiracy, you don't try to get hundreds of people to collude for a fake massacre that leaves thousands of ways to then discredit it (all these children that had to have been seen for a decade, and then not anymore, what a mess). You just get one person to pull off a real shooting and then shoot them.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

narad said:


> 1. Do people get together to conspire on things? Sure. But the larger the group of people, the less likely it is to succeed.


But if they succeeded, we wouldn't know about it... meaning we have no data on how many conspiracies were successful.
But if one were to conduct a large scale conspiracy, only a select few at the top would need to be in on it and then countless people could be compartmentalized to do a specific job without knowing the big picture. For example, I have little idea what the CEO of my company is up to. I know the specific job I am assigned, no more.




narad said:


> That's why things like the moon landing I can at least say, hey, they had the means and the motive to fake it. You still have to have a certain lack of faith in people, but at least I don't see any reason why it's immediately implausible.


+1



narad said:


> 2. Do they leave no evidence? If it happens at a large scale, you'd think they'd leave evidence. Real evidence. Not smiling before an interview to talk about your dead daughter. Not supposedly seeing a photo of a dead girl making the devil's hand sign as a secret shoutout. What's funny too is the pick-and-choose. Even conspiracy theorists will threshold at some point and dismiss a couple supposed signs of conspiracy, because they always go so far as to become numerology and looking for symbols in paintings on the wall in the back of a photo of one of the people, etc. So what kind of evidence is important. Let's say we take a conspiracy theory to court so-to-speak. All the evidence is almost always circumstantial, and never truly substantive.


In Regards to SHook, there's quite a bit more out there than a smile on camera. Most people won't even entertain the thought for fear of being disrespectful. But if you look into it, there's a lot of strange strange things about that case and that community.
Locals reportedly said they thought that school had been closed and didn't realize it was open.
Go to the data on the school's internet data usage, which peaked a few years before the event and then sloped down to 0 for a few years. That is odd for a functioning school in the 21st century. But maybe that data info is crap, but there are many other angles to this case that do not add up.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

When it's the government conspiring, such as was the case with JFK, #1 is a totally different ball game. I know you're referring to sandy hook though, which I have no dog in that fight.


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## bostjan (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I was about to reply to each of your points, but the hostility here is curious. Funny how people can get worked up with all that angry Globe love.
> If someone actually is curious and knows how to communicate respectfully, I'll engage. Otherwise, try The Google
> For the record you are silly wrong on every point, especially on the eclipse.
> 
> ...



Your stance is "you're wrong, and it's so easy for me to prove it to you that I won't, even though it defies conventional wisdom." Ok.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

No, my stance is that when you act like a hostile bully people choose to disengage. 
In the amount of time it took you to write the reply you could have found info. You don't seek info, you seek internet conflict.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

In other news, anybody remember that law propose last year- I think in England? They wanted to make conspiracy discussions illegal. Don't nobody talk bad about the Queen!

Creepy stuff


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## narad (Aug 16, 2017)

There's also just increasing difficulty factor. With JFK, eh, you don't need many people, you don't need a lot of communication, recording tech was not great quality, etc., I don't see why it couldn't be a conspiracy. But I don't really know why a conspiracy is needed -- people just like killing famous people.

But a conspiracy theory in the age of the internet and camera phones? There's just records of everything. Seems like it would be hard to pull of a conspiracy with half a dozen people, let alone hundreds.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

narad said:


> There's also just increasing difficulty factor. With JFK, eh, you don't need many people, you don't need a lot of communication, recording tech was not great quality, etc., I don't see why it couldn't be a conspiracy. But I don't really know why a conspiracy is needed -- people just like killing famous people.
> 
> But a conspiracy theory in the age of the internet and camera phones? There's just records of everything. Seems like it would be hard to pull of a conspiracy with half a dozen people, let alone hundreds.


There were more people involved with JFK than you think, but compartmentalization and intimidation helped keep everything under wraps. And a conspiracy is obvious for multiple reasons surrounding JFK, such as the secret service standing down and breaking protocol.


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## narad (Aug 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> There were more people involved with JFK than you think, but compartmentalization and intimidation helped keep everything under wraps. And a conspiracy is obvious for multiple reasons surrounding JFK, such as the secret service standing down and breaking protocol.



I'm beginning to think that conspiracy theory is just chalking up human error to premeditation. And where's the proof of compartmentalization / intimidation?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

narad said:


> I'm beginning to think that conspiracy theory is just chalking up human error to premeditation. And where's the proof of compartmentalization / intimidation?


I guess all of the questionable deaths surrounding people that were interests for questioning doesn't indicate intimidation. But hey, there is nothing fishy about the deaths of David Ferrie, Lee Harvey Oswald [because he was killed by a guy who supposedly knew him, after Jack was able to sneak in, yet police claim they didn't know him when they did due to his club], or Jack Ruby. Jack told Earl Warren, when his sister finally convinced Earl to speak with her brother after numerous failed attempts by Jack himself, that he wished to speak with him in DC because his life was in danger in Dallas. He said he wished to tell the truth, but that he couldn't do so in Texas, which is why he requested to go to DC. There are other mysterious and questionable deaths, but I think these are the most obvious.

As for compartmentalization, everything is on a need to know basis.


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## narad (Aug 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I guess all of the questionable deaths surrounding people that were interests for questioning doesn't indicate intimidation. But hey, there is nothing fishy about the deaths of David Ferrie, Lee Harvey Oswald [because he was killed by a guy who supposedly knew him, after Jack was able to sneak in, yet police claim they didn't know him when they did due to his club], or Jack Ruby. Jack told Earl Warren, when his sister finally convinced Earl to speak with her brother after numerous failed attempts by Jack himself, that he wished to speak with him in DC because his life was in danger in Dallas. He said he wished to tell the truth, but that he couldn't do so in Texas, which is why he requested to go to DC. There are other mysterious and questionable deaths, but I think these are the most obvious.
> 
> As for compartmentalization, everything is on a need to know basis.



Jack Ruby was himself a conspiracy theorist. The fact that he talked like that is no surprise when he himself suspected that Johnson was behind the assassination. But there's the rub -- if Jack is trying to piece together the conspiracy, then he can't be a part of it. Then the fact that there are multiple theories, some which involve Ruby, and some which don't, is pretty lame. If there is an alternative narrative, shouldn't it be a clear one?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 16, 2017)

narad said:


> Jack Ruby was himself a conspiracy theorist. The fact that he talked like that is no surprise when he himself suspected that Johnson was behind the assassination. But there's the rub -- if Jack is trying to piece together the conspiracy, then he can't be a part of it. Then the fact that there are multiple theories, some which involve Ruby, and some which don't, is pretty lame. If there is an alternative narrative, shouldn't it be a clear one?


"He can't be apart of it" I wonder how compartmentalization works...


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## Demiurge (Aug 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> In other news, anybody remember that law propose last year- I think in England? They wanted to make conspiracy discussions illegal. Don't nobody talk bad about the Queen!



Which would be stupid of them, since the "paranoid style" in politics is a profitable misdirection.

There is kind of a paradox in the idea of identifying overarching government conspiracy: a government competent and powerful enough to be capable of what they're being accused of should either be competent and powerful enough to not leave so many bread crumbs behind- or is playing another game that's never talked about.

Nobody trusts the government or the "official" narrative anymore, and it's hilarious how it doesn't matter. It's like a scam shell game that the public is allowed to win while an accomplice picks their pocket from behind. Jet fuel can't melt steel birth certificates or whatever. We can think that we've figured it all out and have caught The Man red-handed. But guess what- the banal governments of non-lizard men aren't concocting elaborate schemes, they're just chugging-along and enriching themselves because that's all they need to do. If there's any conspiracy, it that's we're allowed to be fools to maintain the status quo.

EDIT: After this, I realized that at least twice on the X-Files Mulder is informed by the given conspirator at the time that the current conspiracy was created as a distraction from another larger conspiracy. In fact, I think they were related, so it was conspiracy-ception.


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## odibrom (Aug 16, 2017)

Please, can we get back to the "The Earth is Flat" theme? So much funnier...


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 16, 2017)

odibrom said:


> Please, can we get back to the "The Earth is Flat" theme? So much funnier...


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## TheKindred (Aug 16, 2017)

Flat-Earthers have supporters all around the globe.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 17, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> Flat-Earthers have supporters all around the globe.


You troll!


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> No, my stance is that when you act like a hostile bully people choose to disengage.
> In the amount of time it took you to write the reply you could have found info. You don't seek info, you seek internet conflict.



I apologize for my tone earlier, it was wrong of me to speak that way to you.

I have not taken your arguments seriously at all. But I will try to explain why as succinctly as possible.

Let's take the accusation that I do not look up information. #1, I provided the arguments that disprove the flat Earth, and you have not specifically addressed them. Saying "look it up on google" is pointless, because no one is going to spend hours going through google links to disprove oneself. You have now provided a specific youtube video, which I will watch when I get the chance to do so, but, prior to that, you didn't even provide specific information on anything that I had not already google searched. #2, and this is fair game, as far as I'm concerned, but you can google "what shape is the earth?" and it will actually post the answer right at the top of the page, that the Earth is an oblate spheroid.

So, if you are trying to argue that the Earth is flat, and your #1 argument is that people should do secondary research on google to prove that to themselves, then your argument simply doesn't work.

In fact, if you are arguing that anything is other than what people generally believe, the burden is really on yourself to make a compelling argument. The only types of people who research the other side's arguments for them are the people who really like to argue. I am guilty of that, admittedly.


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## odibrom (Aug 17, 2017)

I'm counting net megabytes, so I cannot see that video, unfortunately, BUT, I would like very much to read the scientific justification of a flat Earth, you know, for amusement purposes only.

Now, some little history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Magellan...

How do the Flat Earth supporters explain Geography and Cartography. I'd like very much to see a world map drawn by these folks...


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 17, 2017)

Ok, people, that video above was only :40 long. I'm not sure it makes any sense to add more until you're ready.

Do you believe in the Moon Missions 100%? If yes, then STOP here and go back to Big Foot content.
If NO on the Moon Missions, then ask yourself if you embrace this concept:

_It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it._
-Aristotle​
Still with me? Ok, let's dive in...




bostjan said:


> Saying "look it up on google" is pointless, because no one is going to spend hours going through google links to disprove oneself.


No need to rehash things too much, but to clarify, I told _you_ to google it based on your abrasive tone, not as a point of debate to validate one side of a topic. I respect the positive change though, so moving on...



bostjan said:


> the Earth is an oblate spheroid.


Yes, that is the current mainstream thought.
But wait, every "image" of the earth shows a perfect circle. I guess that oblate spheroid is so minimal compared to the size of the earth that it is not visible to anyone ever. We'll just have to go along and trust people like NDT, who bt the way has more movie credits than Brad Pitt but only 1 actual paper published.

Note that this current pear shape view helps Globbies account for the strange and inaccurate southern hemisphere routes which are posited and supported by FE theory.




odibrom said:


> How do the Flat Earth supporters explain Geography and Cartography. I'd like very much to see a world map drawn by these folks...


Keep in mind when I present something I am not saying it is 100% fact. But to think that circumnavigating the world is only possible on a Globe therefore it must be a Globe is false.
Here is 1 idea if what it would look like on a FE model:






So the North Pole is in the center and Antarctica is the entire outside boundary. Sailing East would require a gentle but continuous right hand turn. You would actually need that similar gentle turn on a globe too, unless you were right on the equator.


Before we go any further, note that The Flat Earth Society is a well known misinformation site. No one who believes in Flat Earth subscribes to The Flat Earth Society. That site has some decent facts sprinkled in but then throws out things that are ridiculous to turn people away from the concept (like the FE rising up to account for Gravity).


There, that should enough for now and fun to chew on!


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## odibrom (Aug 17, 2017)

@crankyrayhanky that image is ONLY one of MANY earth possible map projections, not the most common, but a possible one AND can be redrawn with any other center besides North Pole. It is an appropriation made by these folks of Flat Earth something of a well thought solution for one complicated problem, which is to make a 2 dimension representation of how different places in Earth relate to each other. Here is some more reading on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_map_projections

The one you posted is called Azimuthal Equidistant and is listed in the previous link.

A quote from wikipedia about this map:

"Used by the USGS in the National Atlas of the United States of America.
Distances from centre are conserved.
Used as the emblem of the United Nations, extending to 60° S."

... so, does this means that there are FE followers at UN or that UN is firmly stating that the Earth is FLAT? Never heard of that one before...


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 17, 2017)

It could be a case of hiding in plain site.
When I was teenager, I had a friend who would leave his house on Saturday night exclaiming loudly to his parents, "Hey, I'm going out now to do a bunch of LSD" and everyone laughed as if he was being so silly...when in fact, he was doing exactly that.


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## odibrom (Aug 17, 2017)

Lol! I appreciate your sense of humor...


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2017)

If that's the shape of the Earth, though, without any curvature, then Australia would be bigger than North America, and it would take extreme amounts of time to travel in the Southern Hemisphere.


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## TheKindred (Aug 17, 2017)

bostjan said:


> If that's the shape of the Earth, though, without any curvature, then Australia would be bigger than North America, and it would take extreme amounts of time to travel in the Southern Hemisphere.



nah it's cool bro. I can see South America just off my front porch and my canadian friends and I frequently like to walk over to greenland for cold beers.


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> nah it's cool bro. I can see South America just off my front porch and my canadian friends and I frequently like to walk over to greenland for cold beers.



But can you see Russia from your house?


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## TheKindred (Aug 17, 2017)

bostjan said:


> But can you see Russia from your house?



nope. view is blocked by the antarctic ice walls.

obviously.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Aug 17, 2017)

if things fall off the earth, where do they go?


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2017)

I have an idea. If you take that map, and, in order to explain the shift in apparent distances, added another variable, like we do in physics, to explain the phenomenon of length contraction. Call that variable "z." Now, we can use a geometric projection of z onto the map with a curvilinear coordinate system, like what we do with spacetime in general relativity. As you go further "south" toward the outer rim of the flat disk, this variable z compresses east and west distances, all the way until you reach the edge of the disk, and then z is zero.

Oh...wait...


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2017)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> if things fall off the earth, where do they go?


All the way down.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 17, 2017)

bostjan said:


> If that's the shape of the Earth, though, without any curvature, then Australia would be bigger than North America, and it would take extreme amounts of time to travel in the Southern Hemisphere.



A big part of FE theory is the plane & ship routes in the Southern Hemisphere do not make sense on current globe model but do work FE. 

The shape & size if the continents aren't quite there on FE, but note the vary big time on accepted current models. i.e. USA is always presented much larger than it is


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> A big part of FE theory is the plane & ship routes in the Southern Hemisphere do not make sense on current globe model but do work FE.
> 
> The shape & size if the continents aren't quite there on FE, but note the vary big time on accepted current models. i.e. USA is always presented much larger than it is


For example, a flight from Santiago to Sydney is about the same amount of time as a flight from Los Angeles to Moscow. Look at your map and then explain to me how that would work.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Aug 17, 2017)

seriously though...

satellites are always circling the earth...and and video can be accessed at any time...wouldn't they have pics of the underside?

google earth time!


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2017)

Why do hurricanes spin in opposite directions in the northern and southern hemispheres?

-------------------------

Another totally different topic I want to see if anyone wants to touch is the Fermi Paradox. The mainstream belief is that mankind has no knowledge of space aliens, yet, with so many nearby stars with planets that might be suitable for some form of life...well, how are those two bits of data consistent with each other?

Maybe alien life is a lot less like us than we would assume.
Maybe alien life doesn't want us to know about it.
Maybe some alien life already swept across the galaxy and wiped everything out, but somehow Earth was overlooked.

I think this could be an interesting topic for open-minded (read highly speculative) discussion.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 17, 2017)

bostjan said:


> For example, a flight from Santiago to Sydney is about the same amount of time as a flight from Los Angeles to Moscow. Look at your map and then explain to me how that would work.





M3CHK1LLA said:


> seriously though...
> 
> satellites are always circling the earth...and and video can be accessed at any time...wouldn't they have pics of the underside?
> 
> google earth time!


FE theory would suggest there are no satellites in space. Perhaps some in high altitude weather balloons. One point that goes with this idea is that our tracking systems lose specifics over bodies of water- that couldn't happen with satellites in orbit. MTV lied to all of us. 
And of course even if there were satellites up high, they are not going to go below a FE ground level.



bostjan said:


> Why do hurricanes spin in opposite directions in the northern and southern hemispheres?
> Some people suggest that Hurrican patterns actually disprove Globe:



-------------------------



bostjan said:


> Another totally different topic I want to see if anyone wants to touch is the Fermi Paradox. The mainstream belief is that mankind has no knowledge of space aliens, yet, with so many nearby stars with planets that might be suitable for some form of life...well, how are those two bits of data consistent with each other?
> 
> Maybe alien life is a lot less like us than we would assume.
> Maybe alien life doesn't want us to know about it.
> ...



We have only been here for a blip in time. Other life would likely be far below us (bacteria) or far above us (which would seem like a super God to us). 
The chances of another life form existing that is in the ballpark of where we are in our development and getting in contact with us seems to be super unlikely. 

This actually works on any world model IMO


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## bostjan (Aug 17, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> We have only been here for a blip in time. Other life would likely be far below us (bacteria) or far above us (which would seem like a super God to us).
> The chances of another life form existing that is in the ballpark of where we are in our development and getting in contact with us seems to be super unlikely.
> 
> This actually works on any world model IMO



That's congruent with one of the darker interpretations of the Fermi Paradox, that is that life might have existed in many star systems and evolved to the point where it discovers nuclear weapons, then wipes itself out. There is a very real possibility that we could elect a president at some point in time who goes ahead and presses the doomsday button. Or if not him, some other world leader or even a well-equipped terrorist.

Personally, though, I think that interstellar communication and travel is simply not as easy as people would like to think it is. Travelling at the rate of the fastest manmade object ever, it'd take more than the span of recorded history to reach the nearest star system. Actually, travelling one hundred times faster than that, it'd still take several times longer than the longest recorded human life span to reach the nearest star system. Even at one thousand times faster than the fastest man made object ever built, there is virtually zero chance of a grown human leaving Earth and reaching the nearest habitable place outside of Earth before expiring.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 17, 2017)

Agreed, not enough gas in the tank or hours in the day. Hyperspace like in Atari Asteroids is needed, which I think is Mathematically possible. 

Then there's the old "we are just living on one frequency but there are many other frequencies living with us at the same time". Interdimensional travel. That would work well for Reptillian shape shifting theories! and Ghosts, and UFOs/Big Foot who seem to go in and out of view...


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## odibrom (Aug 17, 2017)

One can't simply take correct distances from a world map with a ruler. There are graphic distortions that have to be addressed first. Since one can't make a sphere plane like a cylinder or a cone, so all world map have graphic distortions, depending on the method chosen to design it...


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 17, 2017)

Also depends on the authority who designs it


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## lewis (Aug 18, 2017)

is space being endless actually true?.
How could we ever find that out?.
Seems like we just take experts words on the subject as fact, even though none of them actually know for sure about anything that exists in space. Well certainly beyond our own solar system at least. And even then its not like they have been out there personally (into our solar system)


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 18, 2017)

lewis said:


> is space being endless actually true?.
> How could we ever find that out?.
> Seems like we just take experts words on the subject as fact, even though none of them actually know for sure about anything that exists in space. Well certainly beyond our own solar system at least. And even then its not like they have been out there personally (into our solar system)


It's true enough to creep me the fuck out. Imagine getting separated from your spacecraft or space station, and just floating off into endless space as your oxygen runs out. That's the kinda shit that keeps me up at night.


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## lewis (Aug 18, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> It's true enough to creep me the fuck out. Imagine getting separated from your spacecraft or space station, and just floating off into endless space as your oxygen runs out. That's the kinda shit that keeps me up at night.


yeah thats terrible haha

I mean its so big that yeah you could be floating for a lifetime out there BUT we cannot say its endless because we simply do not know that.

There could be some weird ending to it somewhere. Its just too large to know just yet.


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## sighval (Aug 18, 2017)

Wait, what were you saying about satellites not being in space? I'm a bit astounded, really. I've got a distant relative who's been involved in working on one of two polish (nano)satellites, named Heweliusz. It's part of BRITE, an international project designed to better understand convection processes occurring inside massive stars. Sure, these don't look down on Earth, but I can assure you that when they were sending parts up there they were passing by some that do.
FE is an interesting concept (because why not), although to me in more of a satirical way. It's got nothing on science, since our scientific method - while maybe not flawless - is pretty good at doing it's thing. Sure, the Moon can be a hologram as well, but I've got way more than enough of independent evidence to choose my side of the argument.
There are some things which are mysteries to us as humanity, there are things which may turn out to be something else from what we thought. But there is quite a lot we know already, and while I admire challenging our understanding of the world, why not do it in areas where there are some uncertainties, trying to propel it forward?
Did you ever use GPS? Then you were taking advantage of the fact that Earth is (almost) round.

There is no other way around it.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 18, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah thats terrible haha
> 
> I mean its so big that yeah you could be floating for a lifetime out there BUT we cannot say its endless because we simply do not know that.
> 
> There could be some weird ending to it somewhere. Its just too large to know just yet.


You'd float out there a lifetime, but you'd only be alive a few hours tops. Probably less. But that time would be awful. Imagine thinking, "Okay... do I remove my helmet and kill myself, or do I panic for the next hour or so about this?"

Anyways, to the pedantic nature of saying it's endless when we do not know, let's just say it's "relatively endless."


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## bostjan (Aug 18, 2017)

lewis said:


> is space being endless actually true?.
> How could we ever find that out?.
> Seems like we just take experts words on the subject as fact, even though none of them actually know for sure about anything that exists in space. Well certainly beyond our own solar system at least. And even then its not like they have been out there personally (into our solar system)



The current model is that space is finite. At least our universe definitely is. Space is where there is stuff; stuff being matter or light or whatever. Well, if you picture the big bang happening at time t=0 like a spherical balloon expanding at the speed of light, then space is whatever entails that balloon. Since matter is slower than light, there is a very not-dense husk of light expanding outwardly with a "dense" core of matter expanding much slower in the middle.

But that doesn't preclude the possibility of another universe slamming into ours at some point. The exciting and highly frightening possibility, though is that the other universe formed from another big bang might follow a completely different set of rules.


crankyrayhanky said:


>



 Without seeing what that boat looks like closer up, I have no frame of reference.

I think a big part of the FE ridicule is the mass of garbage information that is circulated in the name of FE fanaticism. I've seen videos with weather balloons carrying panoramic cameras and then the people posting the video claiming that the Earth is flat because the horizon appears flat from a very high altitude. What they fail to point out is that the same video shows how the panoramic lens shows a concave horizon at ground level, due to the nature of the camera (what some would call a "fish eye" effect). But, in my mind, if the horizon looks concave at ground level and flat at high altitude, with the same camera, it means that the Earth is round.

It's still surreal to me how some people can believe the Earth is flat or that the Sun is only a few miles away or that we don't have satellites in space, when we see concrete evidence to the contrary every year or every month or every day. There's also the problem with motive. Ok, sure the US government would be really red faced if the moon landing really was a hoax and they ended up exposed (but that's another topic), but what motive would there be for the scientific community to lie to everyone about the shape of the Earth- especially to the point where people would be covering for other people who died hundreds of years ago?

I think the real thing going on is that anti-intellectualism has simply gotten out of control. We see real effects of this sort of stuff now - anti-vax'ers are getting people sick, climate change deniers are justifying continuance of 20th century pollution levels, etc. I'm totally up for debate, but you have to have some rules set up and, at the end of the day, whoever is proven wrong under those rules of debate needs to pack it in.


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## Demiurge (Aug 18, 2017)

bostjan said:


> I think the real thing going on is that anti-intellectualism has simply gotten out of control. We see real effects of this sort of stuff now - anti-vax'ers are getting people sick, climate change deniers are justifying continuance of 20th century pollution levels, etc. I'm totally up for debate, but you have to have some rules set up and, at the end of the day, whoever is proven wrong under those rules of debate needs to pack it in.



What it boils down to, I think, is that some folks believe that they have the wisdom to reject certain prevailing narratives but then abandon said wisdom in choosing its replacement.


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## Rosal76 (Aug 18, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> It's true enough to creep me the fuck out. Imagine getting separated from your spacecraft or space station, and just floating off into endless space as your oxygen runs out. That's the kinda shit that keeps me up at night.



Or like in that movie Event Horizon. The ship, Event Horizon, just kept traveling and traveling into space and the crew members found something they're weren't suppose to. The movie is open to interpretation but I thought they had reached Hell. Or Pinhead's (Hellraiser) home.


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## odibrom (Aug 18, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> It's true enough to creep me the fuck out. Imagine getting separated from your spacecraft or space station, and just floating off into endless space as your oxygen runs out. That's the kinda shit that keeps me up at night.



Your body could be floating endlessly, but your conscience wouldn't go beyond Pluto's orbit... this meaning you'd be dead by then... probably not even Mars' orbit, so you wouldn't go too far  still within our solar system.

The Scientific Truth follows the same principles as a conquered nation, all previous cultural symbols and knowledge are destroyed in the change of paradigm. Nazism was acceptable in the 1st half of the 20th century... so go figure...

My attempt of understanding the universe goes like this: I have no means to acknowledge its size or shape, so it is endless and limitless, and so is god time - it has always been and always will be... everywhere the universe goes...


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## Demiurge (Aug 18, 2017)

Rosal76 said:


> Or like in that movie Event Horizon. The ship, Event Horizon, just kept traveling and traveling into space and the crew members found something they're weren't suppose to. The movie is open to interpretation but I thought they had reached Hell. Or Pinhead's (Hellraiser) home.



"Where we're going, we won't need eyes to see."


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 18, 2017)

Rosal76 said:


> Or like in that movie Event Horizon. The ship, Event Horizon, just kept traveling and traveling into space and the crew members found something they're weren't suppose to. The movie is open to interpretation but I thought they had reached Hell. Or Pinhead's (Hellraiser) home.


Yeah, fuck all that. 


odibrom said:


> Your body could be floating endlessly, but your conscience wouldn't go beyond Pluto's orbit... this meaning you'd be dead by then... probably not even Mars' orbit, so you wouldn't go too far  still within our solar system.
> 
> The Scientific Truth follows the same principles as a conquered nation, all previous cultural symbols and knowledge are destroyed in the change of paradigm. Nazism was acceptable in the 1st half of the 20th century... so go figure...
> 
> My attempt of understanding the universe goes like this: I have no means to acknowledge its size or shape, so it is endless and limitless, and so is god time - it has always been and always will be... everywhere the universe goes...



I said similar in a followup message, but it wasn't as elaborate.


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## odibrom (Aug 18, 2017)

Ok, so... in which God do you, musicians, believe? Mine is TIME, TIME rules us all, more so within our little SS.org ring...

...

This is getting a lot like Lord of The Ring's Gandalf... huuummmm...


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 18, 2017)

sighval said:


> Wait, what were you saying about satellites not being in space? I'm a bit astounded, really. I've got a distant relative who's been involved in working on one of two polish (nano)satellites


I don't think anyone doubts that there are people designing and building satellites. I know a few people as well (who obviously dislike here I'm going with this, lol). FE is questioning where these satellites are going. Ground Based triangulation can take care of everything we have- phones, tv channels, GPS, etc. That makes one wonder why you would spend so much extra $ to have it in space in the first place. The lack of signal in many parts of the world- including large bodies of water- indicate that this is all ground based. 

They could keep up a space satellite rouse with high altitude balloons and buoys in oceans...but there are still so many gaps that it is unlikely our world is surrounded by tens of thousands of satellites as it is said.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 18, 2017)

Demiurge said:


> What it boils down to, I think, is that some folks believe that they have the wisdom to reject certain prevailing narratives but then abandon said wisdom in choosing its replacement.



With all due respect, I feel you are missing the point. Most FEs are not tied into one specific type of system- the crux of the matter is that the Globe model has so many unanswerable questions and issues that it comes out looking like hoax. We then try to invent alternative models, but a common person will not know for sure.

Most people think the Globe is so obvious it cannot be questioned. But the deeper you question, the more questions are presented. Go deep enough and they will admit that there is no way to prove the curvature & movement unless you are in a rocket ship to space. That is- by definition- a leap of faith.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 18, 2017)




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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 18, 2017)

odibrom said:


> Ok, so... in which God do you, musicians, believe? Mine is TIME, TIME rules us all, more so within our little SS.org ring...
> 
> ...
> 
> This is getting a lot like Lord of The Ring's Gandalf... huuummmm...


I believe in Christ and a Christian God, but I'm a non denominational type. I don't really care what others follow as long as they aren't trying to shove their beliefs in my face. I also cuss and don't go to church, so I'm probably not a great example of a Christian, but I am one nonetheless. 

I also believe time is a ruling factor, but maybe not "God" per se.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 18, 2017)

I'm not into any organized religion (no worries if someone else is, just not for me), but FWIW that is totally FE and you don't even realize it


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## odibrom (Aug 18, 2017)

Hey, Time is my god today, tomorrow will be Gravity, the day after will be Magnetism and Monday I'm back to the God Radiation (light, sound, microwave, X-Ray, nuclear...)...

...

... Damn, I just realized I'm a polytheist lol... so many gods to worship...


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## Ebony (Aug 18, 2017)

On the topic of time, here's a theory...

I think we'll never be able to break the secret of time, because if we did then time-travelers from the future would already have gone back in time and informed us of that fact. The fact that no-one has come to us from the future disproves the existence of time-travelling, which in turn disproves time as a dimension that can be bent and shaped as we see fit.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 18, 2017)

Ebony said:


> On the topic of time, here's a theory...
> 
> I think we'll never be able to break the secret of time, because if we did then time-travelers from the future would already have gone back in time and informed us of that fact. The fact that no-one has come to us from the future disproves the existence of time-travelling, which in turn disproves time as a dimension that can be bent and shaped as we see fit.



First rule of time travel is don't talk about time travel


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## Demiurge (Aug 19, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> With all due respect, I feel you are missing the point. Most FEs are not tied into one specific type of system- the crux of the matter is that the Globe model has so many unanswerable questions and issues that it comes out looking like hoax. We then try to invent alternative models, but a common person will not know for sure.



So, even if one is to grant that the "globe model" is as questionable as you claim (which is debatable), how does does FE survive the same scrutiny? That its models/systems are, as you admit, invented and numerous aren't points in its favor.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 19, 2017)

That's like thinking one can't 100% prove an alternate theory of what happened to JFK, there's so many theories, thus the official story has more credibility 

Faulty logic^

Serious issues with globe include
Curvature 
Movement


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## Demiurge (Aug 19, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> That's like thinking one can't 100% prove an alternate theory of what happened to JFK, there's so many theories, thus the official story has more credibility



That's not at all what I'm implying. For any two propositions, you need to apply the same level of scrutiny to each. Simple as that. If you assail a conventionally-accepted scientific narrative, you'd better both have the ammo AND the ability to survive your own weapons turned on you. I mean, that has worked for science.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 19, 2017)

Ok than FE fails because I can't give you indisputable facts.
Now let's get back to our globe.. 
where's the evidence of Curve & movement?
Not just math equations, but things everybody can see & test to validate

8" per mile squared is actually pretty significant, yet I don't see it anywhere 
Point me in the room gut direction


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## lewis (Aug 19, 2017)

who else believes the Egyptians did not build the Pyramids?
There is no way they could have imo. And the story about "slaves" doing it is obviously nonsense. They are such a feat of specialized skill and care, how could a labor force (if they existed) who would have been made to do this against their will, pull it off? Not to mention all the science involved and how it correlates to our planet in various ways. Again impossible for them to have know all this info.


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## TheKindred (Aug 19, 2017)

lewis said:


> who else believes the Egyptians did not build the Pyramids?
> There is no way they could have imo. And the story about "slaves" doing it is obviously nonsense. They are such a feat of specialized skill and care, how could a labor force (if they existed) who would have been made to do this against their will, pull it off? Not to mention all the science involved and how it correlates to our planet in various ways. Again impossible for them to have know all this info.



While it's not perfect, I definitely fall into the Graham Hancock camp on that one. 10-15000 years is a long time to remember anything, especially when it comes to civilisations and societies around the planet. Hell, I can't remember that riff I wrote 20 minutes ago.

I think we're slowly opening to the idea especially with places like gobekli tepe throwing a solid monkey wrench into the established versions of history. My real beef with Egyptologists is their refusal to be open to change since they all write their books about Pharaoh's and their tombs (despite the lack of bodies found). Things like the rain weathering on the sphinx (which could only happened a minimum of 10000 years ago, despite the Egyptians only be there 2-3000 years ago). Not to mention the synchronicity around the varying ancient sites located all around the globe.

Things like that endlessly frustrate me. Like, why is everyone not scrambling to figure this out instead of a few on the fringe? People gonna peep, I suppose.


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## odibrom (Aug 19, 2017)

... and adding to that, have you guys noticed that the description of Appolo is the "same" as Thor? And that there is another pictograph of such figure in the Aztecs' (or were the Mayans') Pyramids and temples...?

Now about the Egypcians, I've seen some very interesting videos about wooden "simple" machines that could accomplish heavy lifting, really heavy lifting...

... I guess that what we take for granted isn't true for everyone, if so, why would any "White Supremacist" movement or any war exist? Every time there is a cultural paradigm exchange, there's a bad habit on destroying the previous references. The Chinese cultural revolution destroyed almost all of the Chinese mystic philosophy, art and free thinking schools... and it happened in the middle of the 20th century, not so long ago. It's like when a Lion want to mate with a lioness with cubs, he'll kill the cubs.

This can be related with the "competition gene" we all seem to have to make ourselves eternal thru our descendants. How about trying to physically change that gene into a *cooperation* one?


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## Leviathus (Aug 19, 2017)




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## Rosal76 (Aug 20, 2017)

lewis said:


> who else believes the Egyptians did not build the Pyramids?



I've watched a documentary on how people "thought" the Polynesian or whoever, were able to transport and stand up the Easter Island statutes and another documentary on how a guy thought how the Celts or whoever, built Stonehenge without using advanced heavy equipment. They tested their theories out in the field and they did succeed. Although, I have to add, those techniques may not be how they were really moved/stood up/built those monuments.









Obviously, building a modern Pyramid without advanced equipment would be a far more daunting task because of the size. But if individual were able to move something as heavy as a replica (Easter Island statue) and the other guy able to stack stones by himself, you gotta think: Could it have been possible that man did build the Pyramids?

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm also open to the fact that they might have been built by aliens because I'm into aliens, too.


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## bostjan (Aug 21, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I don't think anyone doubts that there are people designing and building satellites. I know a few people as well (who obviously dislike here I'm going with this, lol). FE is questioning where these satellites are going. Ground Based triangulation can take care of everything we have- phones, tv channels, GPS, etc. That makes one wonder why you would spend so much extra $ to have it in space in the first place. The lack of signal in many parts of the world- including large bodies of water- indicate that this is all ground based.
> 
> They could keep up a space satellite rouse with high altitude balloons and buoys in oceans...but there are still so many gaps that it is unlikely our world is surrounded by tens of thousands of satellites as it is said.


 Actually, no, GPS cannot work off of ground triangulation in every case. There are too many variations in ground terrain. In places like NE VT, where there is only one cell tower in a huge swath of ground area, and hundreds of small mountains, triangulation from ground-based antennae, or even mountain-top antennae, just doesn't work. Yet, my GPS still gets me home every time.


crankyrayhanky said:


> With all due respect, I feel you are missing the point. Most FEs are not tied into one specific type of system- the crux of the matter is that the Globe model has so many unanswerable questions and issues that it comes out looking like hoax. We then try to invent alternative models, but a common person will not know for sure.
> 
> Most people think the Globe is so obvious it cannot be questioned. But the deeper you question, the more questions are presented. Go deep enough and they will admit that there is no way to prove the curvature & movement unless you are in a rocket ship to space. That is- by definition- a leap of faith.


Therein lies my fundamental problem with FE thinking. It's not "hey, check this out, here's an alternative way of thinking," as much as it is "you are all wrong, and I can't prove how or why you are wrong, but I know you are all wrong." At least that's the way it comes off to me with...well, all three FE people I know.


crankyrayhanky said:


>



That's the Hangzhou Bay Bridge, BTW, in the photo.

The mathematics in the post don't even make any sense to me. The units don't even make sense. Are you measuring linear distance in square miles, inch-miles, what?

The eight inch rule to which the meme clumbsily alludes is taken into account in all civil engineering. Is the claim, then, that it isn't used? What is the claim here? That the photo doesn't show the proper bridge or that the mathematics don't make any sense? And how


crankyrayhanky said:


> Ok than FE fails because I can't give you indisputable facts.
> Now let's get back to our globe..
> where's the evidence of Curve & movement?
> Not just math equations, but things everybody can see & test to validate
> ...


The evidence of a round Earth, as I've said is the fact that there are time zones, the fact that storms in the northern and southern hemispheres rotate in opposing directions, the fact that one can see the shape of the Earth from high enough altitude, the fact that one can see the lower parts of ships obscured by the horizon on the ocean, the fact that civil engineers *do* have to account for the curvature of the Earth when building rails over long distances, the fact that GPS works, and much more.

Let's just start with Time Zones, though. Why would there be time zones if the Earth was flat?


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## lewis (Aug 21, 2017)

i hate how the 9/11 truth movement has now divided and people within the movement are being hostile with each other now. No planers vs planers etc


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## odibrom (Aug 21, 2017)

Stonehenge is a hoax: https://www.google.pt/search?q=ston.....69i57j0l5.5755j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



... or not... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonehenge

...believe in what you want...


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 21, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Actually, no, GPS cannot work off of ground triangulation in every case. There are too many variations in ground terrain. In places like NE VT, where there is only one cell tower in a huge swath of ground area, and hundreds of small mountains, triangulation from ground-based antennae, or even mountain-top antennae, just doesn't work. Yet, my GPS still gets me home every time.







There's plenty of tower coverage^
....and you can pull a Skywave and bounce signals off the ionosphere.

But to sayGPS gets you home = Globe is a bit of a jump in logic. Not that GPS was <dun dun dun> designed by the Department of Defense. 



bostjan said:


> Therein lies my fundamental problem with FE thinking. It's not "hey, check this out, here's an alternative way of thinking," as much as it is "you are all wrong, and I can't prove how or why you are wrong, but I know you are all wrong." At least that's the way it comes off to me with...well, all three FE people I know.


Imagine you're a detective coming in late to a crime scene. There's a murder and the people at the scene are wrapping things up- Santa Claus is arrested as the perp. You start to look around- no chimney, no Reindeer droppings, it's August- and the $ trail shows that the wife stands to inherit 5 million dollars....but she is out of town.

You know something is really wrong, but everyone else said CASE Closed and you are not allowed to even bring up the endless questions this case presents.

Now you know the official story is wrong, and while you have theories, you can't prove 100% anything. Does that make the official story any more valid?


QUOTE="bostjan, post: 4774764, member: 935"]
The evidence of a round Earth, as I've said is the fact that there are time zones, the fact that storms in the northern and southern hemispheres rotate in opposing directions, the fact that one can see the shape of the Earth from high enough altitude, the fact that one can see the lower parts of ships obscured by the horizon on the ocean, the fact that civil engineers *do* have to account for the curvature of the Earth when building rails over long distances, the fact that GPS works, and much more.

Let's just start with Time Zones, though. Why would there be time zones if the Earth was flat?[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure why people get fixated on weather patterns and time zones as if that is exclusive to Globe models. We really should be looking on the ground for evidence of curvature (of which there is none to be found).
But if you insist, here is how weather would look on a FE model, it actually looks way more efficient:


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 21, 2017)

lewis said:


> i hate how the 9/11 truth movement has now divided and people within the movement are being hostile with each other now. No planers vs planers etc



I'm always taken aback when people speak as if the official story is the obvious truth. That one is so obvious if you spend 10 minutes looking at it.



odibrom said:


> Stonehenge is a hoax: https://www.google.pt/search?q=ston.....69i57j0l5.5755j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was sad to when I found out Stonehenge had all kind of building and manipulations done to it in recent times. Maybe there was a cool beginning, but there's hocus pocus here too. Bummer.


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## odibrom (Aug 21, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


>


I see you liked the Azimuthal Equidistant map projection as a possible representation of the world's map through the FE theory point of view...

... so, a little more info on this map projection - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azimuthal_equidistant_projection created about the year 1000AD by a fellow with an unpronounceable name Abū Rayḥān Muḥammad ibn Aḥmad Al-Bīrūnī... a Persian dude...


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## MFB (Aug 21, 2017)

Why can't this thread be about more fun conspiracy theories? Like, how the massaging chairs at the mall stop right when it's at peak performance, so you then have to pay to keep it going. That's how they get you.


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## MFB (Aug 21, 2017)

Why can't this thread be about more fun conspiracy theories? Like, how the massaging chairs at the mall stop right when it's at peak performance, so you then have to pay to keep it going. That's how they get you.

Or how they purposefully make hot dog buns come in packs of 6 when got dogs done 8 to a pack; so you have to buy multiples to get an even ratio of dogs:rolls.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 21, 2017)

MFB said:


> Why can't this thread be about more fun conspiracy theories? Like, how the massaging chairs at the mall stop right when it's at peak performance, so you then have to pay to keep it going. That's how they get you.
> 
> Or how they purposefully make hot dog buns come in packs of 6 when got dogs done 8 to a pack; so you have to buy multiples to get an even ratio of dogs:rolls.


When the heck have you bought hot dog buns in packs of six? I've only even gotten them in packs of eight.


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## MFB (Aug 21, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> When the heck have you bought hot dog buns in packs of six? I've only even gotten them in packs of eight.



I might be thinking of hamburgers then


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 21, 2017)

MFB said:


> I might be thinking of hamburgers then


Hamburger buns come in a pack of 8 as well. I think they also come in a pack of 12 if memory serves.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 22, 2017)

Check out that Flat Earth UN flag

I mean AsiEquiD


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## marcwormjim (Aug 22, 2017)

That exchange about hot dogs and hamburgers finally elevated this thread.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 22, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> That exchange about hot dogs and hamburgers finally elevated this thread.


Elevated by Hot Dogs. Sounds like a song title that Zappa or Townsend would use.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 22, 2017)

The sheer naivete and assumption that your lack of knowledge is somehow substantive got me like...



tl;dr if I don't understand it, then it can't be true... derp...


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## MFB (Aug 22, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Hamburger buns come in a pack of 8 as well. I think they also come in a pack of 12 if memory serves.



One of the packs most people buy around here are either 6, or 12, so a half or whole dozen, but then you have buns in 8. It's bullshit!

But this hot dog one has a whole webpage for it - http://www.hot-dog.org/culture/hot-dog-fast-facts


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## bostjan (Aug 22, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> There's plenty of tower coverage^
> ....and you can pull a Skywave and bounce signals off the ionosphere.
> 
> But to sayGPS gets you home = Globe is a bit of a jump in logic. Not that GPS was <dun dun dun> designed by the Department of Defense.



You didn't read what I said. I said I live in NE VT, not central VT. Look how bleak the cell coverage is just north of you pin in your map. There are three cell towers. Look at photos of the area, we have tons of mountains. Travel here and try to use a cellular device. It doesn't work, unless you are downtown in Newport or St. Johnsbury. Yet I go into the wooded areas where there are no towns fairly often, hiking or biking around, and the GPS always works, unless the batteries are dead.




crankyrayhanky said:


> Imagine you're a detective coming in late to a crime scene. There's a murder and the people at the scene are wrapping things up- Santa Claus is arrested as the perp. You start to look around- no chimney, no Reindeer droppings, it's August- and the $ trail shows that the wife stands to inherit 5 million dollars....but she is out of town.
> 
> You know something is really wrong, but everyone else said CASE Closed and you are not allowed to even bring up the endless questions this case presents.
> 
> Now you know the official story is wrong, and while you have theories, you can't prove 100% anything. Does that make the official story any more valid?



Thanks, I like analogies, so this is a cool approach.

I'm going to run with it.

Ok, so, in the case of round Earth, there is the evidence I mentioned in my post. So, truthfully, it's more like the Santa Claus impersonator is wearing a shoe that matches the tread marks at the crime scene and there are little pieces of elven toys stuck in the treads of his shoes which match 100% to the placement of their imprints at the crime scene. That's equivalent to my coriolis effect point (storm systems move in opposite rotations in opposite hemispheres). But that's not enough. The Santa impersonator also has a .38 Smith and Wesson tucked in the back of his sleigh which matches ballistics from the bullets found in the body - equivalent to the time zones. Santa also has fresh gunpowder residue on his sleeves - equivalent to my ships in the ocean evidence. And...most of all, there are several astronauts and aviators who saw Santa do it - equivalent to the fact that you can go up to high altitudes and see the Earth's curvature. So...

You point to a motive that the officials gain something from tricking everyone to believe that the Earth is not flat. What is that? What does anyone gain?



crankyrayhanky said:


> I'm not sure why people get fixated on weather patterns and time zones as if that is exclusive to Globe models. We really should be looking on the ground for evidence of curvature (of which there is none to be found).
> But if you insist, here is how weather would look on a FE model, it actually looks way more efficient:



That addresses zero of the questions I asked, though. Actually, it just makes things more confusing. If the disk was spinning, the outer weather patterns would make sense, but the inner ring is paradoxical, since the centrifugal force would be noded at the center of the disk, not the mid-ring.


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## odibrom (Aug 22, 2017)

Ok, question on FE theory: say if one flying over Europe, in a flat earth point of view, the higher one gets, the more ones sees, right? So why can't one see Australia from Europe's high up in the air space?? Also, I don't understand how FE theory explains different day/night time zones, how it is daylight at my place and night time at yours (wherever you may be, you get the point)?

Changing subject, this is something that I've been thinking about for quite some time. Remember the 1980's Scy Fy TV show called "Space 1999" about a Moon space station? The Moon got on a space drift after some nuclear wars and the sorts... The question is, can a nuclear blast like those of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (just for example, many more have happened since then, unfortunately) slightly change the Earth's orbit? Can these blast interfere with Earth's rotation? Sure they are very small comparing with Earth's mass, but even so, could it be possible they interfere with Earth's movements for like a 0.1%?


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## TheKindred (Aug 22, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> There's plenty of tower coverage^
> ....and you can pull a Skywave and bounce signals off the ionosphere.



.... Off the iono-what?


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## bostjan (Aug 22, 2017)

odibrom said:


> Ok, question on FE theory: say if one flying over Europe, in a flat earth point of view, the higher one gets, the more ones sees, right? So why can't one see Australia from Europe's high up in the air space?? Also, I don't understand how FE theory explains different day/night time zones, how it is daylight at my place and night time at yours (wherever you may be, you get the point)?



That's the soft pitch question I keep asking. I am beginning to get the impression that the official answer is either "I don't know," or that the Earth is round.



odibrom said:


> Changing subject, this is something that I've been thinking about for quite some time. Remember the 1980's Scy Fy TV show called "Space 1999" about a Moon space station? The Moon got on a space drift after some nuclear wars and the sorts... The question is, can a nuclear blast like those of Hiroshima and Nagasaki (just for example, many more have happened since then, unfortunately) slightly change the Earth's orbit? Can these blast interfere with Earth's rotation? Sure they are very small comparing with Earth's mass, but even so, could it be possible they interfere with Earth's movements for like a 0.1%?



Absolutely. In fact, the moon's orbit is not perfectly elliptical, but rather, a very very slow spiral away from the Earth. Every time a tide rolls in or out, there is friction against the ocean floor. This friction dissipates gravitational energy (friction is a non-conservative force) into heat very gradually, and as the system loses potential energy, the moon drifts away from the Earth.

The same is true between the Earth and the Sun, except there is much more potential energy from which to draw.

A bomb blast against the Earth would create a force impulse on the Earth, and it would most likely drag the moon along with it under the gravitational bond between those two objects, but the moon also orbits around the Sun, so it's more complex - the end result is somewhat chaotic, in that, the angle and magnitude of the force could have a profound effect on the re-established equilibrium once everything settles back out.


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## odibrom (Aug 22, 2017)

... if everything settles back out...

... my unanswerable question behind that of nuclear explosions on Earth is WHAT THE FUCK are we doing to this planet?


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 22, 2017)

bostjan said:


> You didn't read what I said. I said I live in NE VT, not central VT. Look how bleak the cell coverage is just north of you pin in your map. There are three cell towers. Look at photos of the area, we have tons of mountains. Travel here and try to use a cellular device. It doesn't work, unless you are downtown in Newport or St. Johnsbury. Yet I go into the wooded areas where there are no towns fairly often, hiking or biking around, and the GPS always works, unless the batteries are dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There's a lot here, so I'll try to throw out a few thoughts:
We disagree on the clues in the Santa story. Globe clues I find sketchy whereas you find them indisputable. Agree to disagree there. 
No one believes in a moving spinning FE disk. That is regarded as disinformation put out by FE Society.
FE theory indicates Higher Intelligence Creation (as opposed to random Big Bang). At that point, weather patterns time zones, stars...all of that has proposed models but regardless not a great way to refute FE. If you were designing a video game, are you thinking that only a globe model can hold weather patterns & time zones? It's actually ridiculously easier on a FE model, as supported by the fact that EVERY game designed is a FE model. Globe models with all of the movement involved is was more complicated and difficult to create.



odibrom said:


> Ok, question on FE theory: say if one flying over Europe, in a flat earth point of view, the higher one gets, the more ones sees, right? So why can't one see Australia from Europe's high up in the air space?? Also, I don't understand how FE theory explains different day/night time zones, how it is daylight at my place and night time at yours (wherever you may be, you get the point)?


I'm astounded people continue to throw this point out there.
People have limited vision. It's not limited by the globe curve, it's limited by:

our capacity to see (3-5 miles ?)
terrain (mountains, etc)
thickness in the atmosphere
Here is a FE model that shows day/night (the sun is a spotlight, not an omnilight):


FE Wind Patterns


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## Unleash The Fury (Aug 22, 2017)

Lmao so the sun revolves around us? And is also infinitley smaller?

And as far as Australia, if the human eye is limited to 5 miles we can certainly see it with a telescope from the top of mt everest theoretically?

And arent there hundreds of satellites flying around on different axis' proving the globe to be spherical?


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 22, 2017)

Unleash The Fury said:


> Lmao so the sun revolves around us? And is also infinitley smaller?
> 
> And as far as Australia, if the human eye is limited to 5 miles we can certainly see it with a telescope from the top of mt everest theoretically?
> 
> And arent there hundreds of satellites flying around on different axis' proving the globe to be spherical?



FE theory suggests:
Yes, sun is much closer to us and revolves around us. That's kind of the whole point>helio centric vs geo centric
Theoretically, yes, if we lived in a vaccum we could see vast distances with a telescope
No satellittes floating in a vaccum of space....and no space either, lol!


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## TheKindred (Aug 22, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Theoretically, yes, if we lived in a vaccum we could see vast distances with a telescope



dude... I can see mountains on the coastal islands from the mainland and those are well over a few miles away. See them with my own eyes, no NASA manufactured images there.

Remember when this thread was about conspiracies and not just something that has been proven to be false and is only championed by the likes of Tila Tequila?


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## odibrom (Aug 22, 2017)

@crankyrayhanky 

huuummm interesting models, however they still do not prove its point, how then, does the daylight varies during a year. You see, I live in an East/West oriented 12th floor flat/apartment (north hemisphere/Europe) and I see the sun set in different positions along the year. In the winter it sets more to the south, in the summer, it sets more to the north. How is that explained? How is the fact that in the summer, the North Pole (centered in that map) practically has no night time and in the winter is the opposite? Now get a new video explaining that please, I'd very much like to see that using that 3D model video.

My vision goes FAR beyond 3/5 miles? How can you say what I can see? You do not have my eyes! I use no glasses nor "eye lenses", I need no prosthetic auxiliaries to see. On a clear day sky, my un-instrumented sight can go further than 10 times that if I'm in a high spot... and with no help from binoculars or whatsoever tech, you now, FREE SIGHT of things go FAR BEYOND 5 miles (approximately 8.04km), I dare to say that it can go as far as the infinite goes We can see the infinity of things and that's what makes it hard to understand.

Oh, please explain the rarity of a solar eclipse with that 3D model using the Azimuthal Equidistant Map projection (it means to include a coherent moon movement along with that of the sun). That would be a nice trick to see.

What does exists beyond the Sun then? How do we see some stars in the North Hemisphere and others in the South, also some stars in the Summer, but Different ones in the winter... what are stars then? Why do wee see them? Are they the suns of other "plan-ets", if so, why would they be turned over to us for us to see their sun? What is underneath the surface of the earth and what is beyond the Earth's limit?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 22, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> dude... I can see mountains on the coastal islands from the mainland and those are well over a few miles away. See them with my own eyes, no NASA manufactured images there.
> 
> Remember when this thread was about conspiracies and not just something that has been proven to be false and is only championed by the likes of Tila Tequila?


Yeah, this flat earth horse shit is getting really old and tired. I wish we could go back to discussing actual conspiracies instead of this nonsensical horse manure parading as fertilizer.


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## Unleash The Fury (Aug 22, 2017)

Chemtrails is one i dont believe in though simply because, the conspirators would be breathing in that shit too and why would they and their families have to do that?


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Aug 22, 2017)

At this rate I'm more likely to get cancer from this Flat Earth shit than chemtrails


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 22, 2017)

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> At this rate I'm more likely to get cancer from this Flat Earth shit than chemtrails


I don't know about how much of a carcinogen it is, but FE theory is certainly cringy as fuck.


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## odibrom (Aug 22, 2017)

... they didn't have geometry classes in school...


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## bostjan (Aug 23, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> There's a lot here, so I'll try to throw out a few thoughts:
> We disagree on the clues in the Santa story. Globe clues I find sketchy whereas you find them indisputable. Agree to disagree there.
> No one believes in a moving spinning FE disk. That is regarded as disinformation put out by FE Society.
> FE theory indicates Higher Intelligence Creation (as opposed to random Big Bang). At that point, weather patterns time zones, stars...all of that has proposed models but regardless not a great way to refute FE. If you were designing a video game, are you thinking that only a globe model can hold weather patterns & time zones? It's actually ridiculously easier on a FE model, as supported by the fact that EVERY game designed is a FE model. Globe models with all of the movement involved is was more complicated and difficult to create.
> ...




Ok, I'm close to giving up, honestly. Everything you've said has been very nebulous and most of it is simply not substantiated by, well, anything.

"the fact that EVERY game designed is a FE model." No. Pac-Man. Or Dragon Warrior 3. And those are both very very old. I posit, thought, that a flat television screen or computer screen lends itself to a flat game design. Either way, though, your "fact" is not true. But it's also a moot point. In no way whatsoever, would the Earth's layout in a computer game offer any proof as to the actual Earth's layout.

And you say that the counter-arguments to FE posted here are not sufficient, but you really offer no reasoning as to why they aren't great, nor have you offered any specifics from your own side that haven't been immediately debunked.

As for the Sun being a spotlight, that makes no sense to me. As the Sun aims away from me, and toward California, if it were like a searchlight, I would not see a sunset. Yet I do. Why do I see a sunset?

Also, according to your map, coupled with the searchlight Sun, it would only be noon in one point at a time, not over an entire slice of the Earth. How can you explain this? Your map and the searchlight Sun scenario do not explain time zones at all.

Furthermore, your main point earlier was motive. You have not mentioned what the motive is to lie to millions of people about the shape of the Earth. Why would belief in a round Earth benefit anyone if the Earth was actually flat?

Most of these questions have been asked 2-3 times before. I'm sure you are busy, though, responding to so many people, so maybe you didn't have time to post an answer.

EDIT: Catching up on the thread, it'd be more appropriate to continue this conversation via PM.


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## groovemasta (Aug 23, 2017)

I'm mostly just a lurker but have been following this thread with some healthy amusement. I know forums are for discussion but I really don't understand why people waste their time trying to argue with people who hold beliefs not substantiated by empirical evidence on a logical platform as if they're equal to established and verified ideas. It reminds me of Richard Dawkins, and while it's entertaining, I really have to wonder why he goes through so much trouble with his 'debates'.

I can tell people like bostjan are educated in STEM, and are obviously aware there are realities uncovered by science far more astounding than the fact that the earth isn't flat. Personally I find it moderately humorous that people still hold medieval beliefs but I may be heavily steeped in the cover up they want us to believe.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2017)

Flat Earth would be disproven if someone were to latitudinally circumnavigate the globe..... which they have done. Can we talk about Moth Man and Aliens now?


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

If FE angers/bothers you, why even read/reply? I don't like Golf so I don't bother going there- I don't visit those threads and lash out about how stupid it is, lol. You have the choice to skip over if you wish.

_



My vision goes FAR beyond 3/5 miles? How can you say what I can see? You do not have my eyes! I dare to say that it can go as far as the infinite goes We can see the infinity of things

Click to expand...

_Really, you can see infinitely? That is not reality. 3-5 miles refers to a distance of a boat in water. At some distance it reaches a vanishing point in the center of your scope. Yes, if you can climb up high and look out to see a huge mountain you can obviously see farther. No one is arguing that...but infinity? Please show me the research on human eye sight and it's seemingly limitless power. Now let's assume that is true (it is not). The atmosphere is thick and that will muck things up after a certain distance less than infinity. 



groovemasta said:


> I know forums are for discussion but I really don't understand why people waste their time trying to argue with people who hold beliefs not substantiated by empirical evidence on a logical platform as if they're equal to established and verified ideas.



Many would argue the Globe Model is not substantiated by empirical evidence. Curvature? Movement? There's so much out there refuting it is worth a closer look.

Some people here have posted with hostility and venom which really begs the questions why? No one lashes out on any level on other "crazy" conspiracies...but FE seems to bring out the worst in people. How is it that you know you are on a globe? How is it people knew before the space programs in the mid 20th century? The answer is they did not know for sure- this topic was widely debated by the greatest thinkers of each era up and until NASA.

If you believe in the Globe then you believe in NASA- moon missions and all, and you believe in the morality of the Church (which started a huge Globe education reform hundreds of years ago). I would ask you to lightly research these two powerhouses and ask yourself if they should be open to scrutiny and questions...hmmmm....anything to suggest otherwise?

As for the 100s of questions and issues raised, no, I don't have time to get overwhelmed with answering all of them all of the time as posting that many FE rebuttals would be a full time job.If you are respectful and throw 1 or 2 things out there I'll oblige.

In the meantime, FE curious could look here for 2 of the better clips I have found:

This is chunked out in 5 minute segments, easy and fun to digest:


This guy is more dry and is off the rails on other topics, but here his focus is on FE and it is quite good regarding history and possible motives:


If you don't wish to view, then go about Mothman, Aliens, and Big Foot. TBH, I went down all those trails years ago and sort of tapped out, nothing really new and developing in those areas that have caught my interest.


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## narad (Aug 23, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> If FE angers/bothers you, why even read/reply? I don't like Golf so I don't bother going there- I don't visit those threads and lash out about how stupid it is, lol. You have the choice to skip over if you wish.



Just because it's a conspiracy theory thread doesn't make it a "Abandon logic all ye who enter here" type situation. It's still up to you / the guys going against the mainstream to form coherent arguments, or what's the point? Huge amount of failure to be direct in this thread, and instead just point at other poorly conceived reference material on the web. Just a lot of "there's so much out there that argues against <mainstream belief" but no follow-through.

As to why the hostility toward FE, FE requires a certain wilful ignorance that other conspiracy theories don't. You basically need an alternate explanation for a huge amount of physics that's featured in technology we use every day. If someone wants to believe in the loch ness monster or big foot, well, there's not much evidence for them, but it doesn't stand in outright contradiction to science and everyone's everyday experience.


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## vilk (Aug 23, 2017)

FE is just a prank. No one believes it. Not even that dude in this thread. And they all get together and laugh about how much they piss everyone off and how gullible we all are for believing that they really think the earth is flat. This is my conspiracy theory.


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## tedtan (Aug 23, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> If you believe in the Globe then you believe in NASA- moon missions and all, and you believe in the morality of the Church (which started a huge Globe education reform hundreds of years ago).



Can you elaborate as to why someone who believes the earth is roughly spherical must also believe in everything NASA and the Church's morality (I assume that is a reference to the Catholic Church?)?

Just because one thing they promote is false (and I'm not saying that it is) doesn't mean that everything else they promote is also false.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

narad said:


> Just because it's a conspiracy theory thread doesn't make it a "Abandon logic all ye who enter here" type situation. It's still up to you / the guys going against the mainstream to form coherent arguments, or what's the point? Huge amount of failure to be direct in this thread, and instead just point at other poorly conceived reference material on the web. Just a lot of "there's so much out there that argues against <mainstream belief" but no follow-through.
> 
> As to why the hostility toward FE, FE requires a certain wilful ignorance that other conspiracy theories don't. You basically need an alternate explanation for a huge amount of physics that's featured in technology we use every day. If someone wants to believe in the loch ness monster or big foot, well, there's not much evidence for them, but it doesn't stand in outright contradiction to science and everyone's everyday experience.



Actually our everyday experiences suggest the world is flat & motionless. This is not a proof, but it contradicts your point above.

Logical Question is here (& ignored): where is the evidence of curvature?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 23, 2017)

I really wish we could discuss actual conspiracies with stuff to talk about rather than this FE bullshit. Enough already.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

Motive for a Global be Hoax is plentiful, but let's say we can't imagine any motive. That is irrelevant- first identify if a crime is committed, then gather up suspects to see who may have motive 

Recognizing a crime is not contingent on existence of motive


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## TheKindred (Aug 23, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Some people here have posted with hostility and venom which really begs the questions why? No one lashes out on any level on other "crazy" conspiracies...but FE seems to bring out the worst in people. How is it that you know you are on a globe? How is it people knew before the space programs in the mid 20th century? The answer is they did not know for sure- this topic was widely debated by the greatest thinkers of each era up and until NASA.




dude.... the maths proved it out well before NASA; waaaay before NASA. The "great thinkers" were not debating this at all. They used maths. They were great thinkers. Not to hammer the point, but is Tila Tequila being considered one of these great thinkers? Show me one _QUALIFIED _person who is a proponent of this garbage.



crankyrayhanky said:


> If you believe in the Globe then you believe in NASA- moon missions and all, and you believe in the morality of the Church (which started a huge Globe education reform hundreds of years ago). I would ask you to lightly research these two powerhouses and ask yourself if they should be open to scrutiny and questions...hmmmm....anything to suggest otherwise?



That's the most bullshit statement I've seen you put up yet. Believing any one given thing certainly does not mean everything else is taken as part and parcel. The church literally killed people for positing alternate theories, including now proven facts such as a heliocentric solar system.

Seriously, just start an FE thread and spew to your hearts content. That shit's played out here and just shitting on what was a cool thread before.

hurr duurrr i'm just a tool of the establishment, maaaan, cause that's just like my opinion.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I really wish we could discuss actual conspiracies with stuff to talk about rather than this FE bullshit. Enough already.



Post about it then
You have countless posts complaining about what other people are posting on. That is not very interesting...but now you have me doing it


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> dude.... the maths proved it out well before NASA; waaaay before NASA. The "great thinkers" were not debating this at all. They used maths. They were great thinkers. Not to hammer the point, but is Tila Tequila being considered one of these great thinkers? Show me one _QUALIFIED _person who is a proponent of this garbage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Tesla


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## bostjan (Aug 23, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> That is not reality. 3-5 miles refers to a distance of a boat in water. At some distance it reaches a vanishing point in the center of your scope. Yes, if you can climb up high and look out to see a huge mountain you can obviously see farther.



You made exactly the opposite argument earlier when you thought that suited you:


crankyrayhanky said:


> Fast Forward to 2017 and the newer cameras have zoom lens showing that a boat that appears to disappear on the horizon is actually just moving out of your view. The zoom can bring it right back into full view- meaning that the old boat disappearing on the horizon proof is garbage.



I think it's settled, 8 pages (more than half the thread) dedicated to everyone and his brother disproving FE over and over just to have you repeat the same non-specific counter arguments about motive and how the Sun is actually very small, along with other wrong maths and wrong geometries...

Then, when backed into a corner in the debate, you put all of your weight into motive, but then you say the motive doesn't matter. You have nothing profound to add, so I'm done with you for now.



crankyrayhanky said:


> Tesla



Also wrong. Read Tesla's books. He often refers to the Earth as the "globe." The quote attaching him to FE is completely misattributed, and was propagated by the FES to confuse people. He never said the Earth was flat.



Nikola Tesla said:


> By realizing such a plan, we should be enabled to get *at any point of the globe* a continuous supply of energy, day and night





Darrel Fox said:


> Earth is a realm, it is not a planet. It is not an object, therefore, it has no edge. Earth would be more easily defined as a system environment. Earth is also a machine, it is a Tesla coil. The sun and moon are powered wirelessly with the electromagnetic field (the Aether). This field also suspends the celestial spheres with electo-magnetic levitation. Electromag levitation disproves gravity because the only force you need to counter is the electromagnetic force, not gravity. The stars are attached to the FIRMAMENT.



Note that Tesla called his coil the "magnifying transmitter."



Spaced Out Ace said:


> I really wish we could discuss actual conspiracies with stuff to talk about rather than this FE bullshit. Enough already.



+1
I'm pressing ignore now. Not because he's said anything disrespectful, but because I can't seem to leave it alone. Maybe others will follow my lead and we can get back to Bigfoot and UFO's.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

tedtan said:


> Can you elaborate as to why someone who believes the earth is roughly spherical must also believe in everything NASA and the Church's morality (I assume that is a reference to the Catholic Church?)?
> 
> Just because one thing they promote is false (and I'm not saying that it is) doesn't mean that everything else they promote is also false.



Agreed, but conversely if someone lies steals, & cheats you it may be a good idea to take a closer look at their next actions...instead, we do the opposite & absorb everything they do as indisputable


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 23, 2017)

bostjan said:


> I'm pressing ignore now. Not because he's said anything disrespectful, but because I can't seem to leave it alone. Maybe others will follow my lead and we can get back to Bigfoot and UFO's.


I already have. I only see people's replies to his inane garbage.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

Ok, lots of FE questions but too many angry replies, so I'll leave it. Weird to me that people get jacked up but whatever. 

Ghosts, Aliens, Big Foot- are they all the same? Are they all demons & angels? Why no solid proof?

There you go, have fun!


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## narad (Aug 23, 2017)

+1 for FE as its own thread (in hell).


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## narad (Aug 23, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Tesla



False. Or let's just say, citation needed.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

narad said:


> False. Or let's just say, citation needed.



Tesla (crankyrayhanky, 2017).


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## tedtan (Aug 23, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Agreed, but conversely if someone lies steals, & cheats you it may be a good idea to take a closer look at their next actions...instead, we do the opposite & absorb everything they do as indisputable



You mean like when Galileo was locked up by the Catholic Church for suggesting that the Earth revolved around the Sun?


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

That is not something to speculate on without insulting a lot of people. I'll just say look under the surface


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## narad (Aug 23, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Tesla (crankyrayhanky, 2017).



A perfect example of the kind of avoidance of facts that makes it pointless to discuss things with you. 

So, any evidence Tesla believed in a flat earth or can we strike down your response as bullshit, leaving 0 examples of scientific experts that are proponents of FE theory?


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

Globe Vision is infinite but ability to use search engine is quite limited 

I think I saw a chupacabre last week!
It was spooky


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2017)

Crankyrayhanky, what do you make of latitudinal circumnavigation? Surely if someone can cross both poles, and longitudinally circumnavigate the planet, then there is no more FE theory. Unless you resort to mass hallucination, which still doesn't point to FE.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Crankyrayhanky, what do you make of latitudinal circumnavigation? Surely if someone can cross both poles, and longitudinally circumnavigate the planet, then there is no more FE theory. Unless you resort to mass hallucination, which still doesn't point to FE.






I agree 
Moving across the South Pole & popping back North would defeat FE

Not many have claimed to have done it, <5?
It's a hostile environment & difficult to verify
The Antarctica Treaty also makes sure that there's no private exploration... funny, that's the only Treaty I know of that isn't breached or even discussed. That Treaty is, by definition, a Conspiracy of the world's powers 

Antarctica is a key to this whole thing, lots of curious events going on down 
there

I could go on, but I have a clown stuck in my pipes & I need to plunge that creepy thing out


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 23, 2017)

Here's a fresh one for you:

It is actually legal for Pro Sports Teams to "fix" games ?! Not unlike pro wrestling....check out this site, quite a bummer for me as I love sports:
http://thefixisin.net/theproof.html


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## bostjan (Aug 23, 2017)

http://i.imgur.com/z1mXiv1.gifv
Hopefully the gif shows up. It's a chimp playing table tennis with a dude...and winning.

Is this real?!

I want so bad for this to be real.


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## CrazyDean (Aug 23, 2017)

I couldn't see your gif, but I looked it up on youtube and it seems to be real. I see no reason a chimp couldn't play ping pong. Good stuff.


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## odibrom (Aug 23, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Really, you can see infinitely? That is not reality. 3-5 miles refers to a distance of a boat in water. At some distance it reaches a vanishing point in the center of your scope. Yes, if you can climb up high and look out to see a huge mountain you can obviously see farther. No one is arguing that...but infinity? Please show me the research on human eye sight and it's seemingly limitless power. Now let's assume that is true (it is not). The atmosphere is thick and that will muck things up after a certain distance less than infinity.



Ok, You obviously don't have a clue about geometry, how vision or perspective works... or you are trolling with us all (I bet on this one). Do you even know what light is? Colors? The sun is a Spotlight? Have you ever lighten up a candle or a incandescent lightbulb and see how it glows and lightens in *every direction*? If the sun is a spotlight (named after a 3D rendering software light objects like Maya or 3DSmax? Really?) what is blocking the Sun's light to propagate in every direction? Do you know the properties of light at all?

Yes, we can see the infinity of things, "vanishing points" ARE the INFINITE, as well as the HORIZON, and no, we don't need no ZOOM lens to prove that. That was accomplished by Filippo Brunelleschi way back in... 1413 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perspective_(graphical)) way back in the renascence and WAY before the Earth was proven to be round and generally accepted as so within the christian European/ocidental world (Hey, this reading is very interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_Earth, it looks that the round Earth theory is WAY older than what I thought)... go figure!

Oh, also note that the GEOMETRIC HORIZON does not match the Earth's one, the first is a straight line, the second is a parabola line... go figure.

... so, all in all, cheers for your time and patience, but, no, geometrically, the Earth is round, sphere like or ellipsoid like of some sort (larger in the equator).




bostjan said:


> http://i.imgur.com/z1mXiv1.gifv
> Hopefully the gif shows up. It's a chimp playing table tennis with a dude...and winning.
> 
> Is this real?!
> ...



If it is like that NOKIA video of Bruce Lee playing Table Tennis with Nunchakus or Tom Hanks in Forest Gump... well, it's all fake, all CGI...


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 23, 2017)

This thread is a dumpster fire. Time to put it out.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 23, 2017)

how the fuck did this thread balloon to 15 pages smh


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 23, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> how the fuck did this thread balloon to 15 pages smh


A troll with mediocre bait and easily hooked fish.


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## odibrom (Aug 23, 2017)

... amused / entertained fish, if i may...


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## Demiurge (Aug 24, 2017)

Now now- if anything, there's a cautionary tale to be had.

Oftentimes, the conspiracy theorist asks, "cui bono?", but sometimes you've gotta do the same when considering the alternative theories proposed. Or else, you'll find yourself carrying water for something less credible just for the gratification of believing something different.


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## bostjan (Aug 24, 2017)

Here's a can of worms for you all, if anyone wants to discuss:

Where the hell did HIV come from? Such a serious disease. No record of it prior to 1959, then, by the 1980's, it was epidemic. There are tons of conspiracy theories about the origins of the virus: some think it was created in a laboratory, others think it doesn't even really exist. I think that whatever the case, something crazy must have started it. Colonialism in Africa predates the spread of the disease by centuries.


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## sighval (Aug 24, 2017)

From what I know, HIV is believed to be a mutated SIV virus, which is found in many different non-human primates (and estimated to be at least 30k years old). Viruses tend to mutate, just like about anything alive.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 24, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Here's a can of worms for you all, if anyone wants to discuss:
> 
> Where the hell did HIV come from? Such a serious disease. No record of it prior to 1959, then, by the 1980's, it was epidemic. There are tons of conspiracy theories about the origins of the virus: some think it was created in a laboratory, others think it doesn't even really exist. I think that whatever the case, something crazy must have started it. Colonialism in Africa predates the spread of the disease by centuries.


I think we can thank Dr. Maurice Hilleman for SV40 and SIV. _Which if that is the case, then perhaps cancer viruses are transmitted by blood or possibly even sexual intercourse. _The italicized is solely a hypothesis on my part.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 24, 2017)

*ECLIPSE CONSPIRACY*

I'll sum up the videos shown below (they're only 5 minutes long)....
Where is the accurate animation of this week's eclipse?
The ones on mainstream either show

the moon orbiting the earth way too fast- the earth should rotate 27 times (days) for every moon orbit
the earth rotating in the wrong direction- this is everywhere including on the NASA channel


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## bostjan (Aug 24, 2017)

sighval said:


> From what I know, HIV is believed to be a mutated SIV virus, which is found in many different non-human primates (and estimated to be at least 30k years old). Viruses tend to mutate, just like about anything alive.



Yes.... However- Virii never jump species without some sort of event happening, though. I doubt someone was bit by a gorilla and survived, but somehow harbored SIV long enough for it to mutate into HIV. If HIV mutated from SIV into HIV outside of the human body, it would not likely be selective toward our species. We saw something similar with SARS jumping from cats to humans, all starting where a culture of people in China were eating raw cat lungs - so cat-influenza was able to enter the human body in large enough concentrations to mutate into a human pathogen.

Maybe some people in Africa in the 50's started drinking gorilla blood or something.

But if I am to believe that any disease in any animal can spontaneously mutate into some terrible deadly human disease, then every day Homo Sapiens isn't wiped out is a miracle.



Spaced Out Ace said:


> I think we can thank Dr. Maurice Hilleman for SV40 and SIV. _Which if that is the case, then perhaps cancer viruses are transmitted by blood or possibly even sexual intercourse. _The italicized is solely a hypothesis on my part.



Well, that hypothesis has been tested and supported before, so I don't think that's too far from a fact at this point.


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## tedtan (Aug 24, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Here's a can of worms for you all, if anyone wants to discuss:
> 
> Where the hell did HIV come from?



HIV is believed to be a virus common to non-human primates in Africa that mutated and was subsequently transmitted to humans via the humans consuming those primates as a food source. From there, it spread prettily easily because no one knew to be on the look out for it.




Spaced Out Ace said:


> _perhaps cancer viruses are transmitted by blood or possibly even sexual intercourse. _The italicized is solely a hypothesis on my part.



As for cancer, it is a case of wildly out of control cells growing too fast. Most cancer is not believed to be a result of viruses, but some are. HPV, the sexually transmitted disease, can cause throat cancer, cervical cancer, vaginal cancer, penile cancer and anal cancer. Hepatitis B and C can cause liver cancer. HIV can cause throat, mouth, lung, skin and anal cancer. Herpes can cause cancer, too.

So yeah, there are several viruses that can be transmitted through blood and/or sexual activity that can result in cancer.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 24, 2017)

> *ECLIPSE CONSPIRACY*
> 
> I'll sum up the videos shown below (they're only 5 minutes long)....
> Where is the accurate animation of this week's eclipse?
> ...




Here is the NASA video- this Globe is rotating the wrong way?!
https://eclipse2017.nasa.gov/animation-total-solar-eclipse-august-21-2017


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## bostjan (Aug 24, 2017)

tedtan said:


> HIV is believed to be a virus common to non-human primates in Africa that mutated and was subsequently transmitted to humans via the humans consuming those primates as a food source. From there, it spread prettily easily because no one knew to be on the look out for it.



HIV =/= SIV, but, ostensibly HIV mutated out of SIV. SIV is a virus common to non-human primates (with different virii specific to each species, i.e. sooty mangabey SIV is exclusive to sooty mangabeys and does not infect bonobos). HIV is the human-specific version of SIV. There were only a few cases of HIV before 1980, and those were only confirmed to be HIV after 1980. No one knew HIV existed, then they knew it existed, and then it was epidemic. So, it's not like it was around for a long time and then we suddenly figured out what it was. It didn't exist, from what we can tell, until 1959, or maybe later. Eating some sort of primate might well have been the way it was transmitted, but I believe that even cooked infected meat would be very unlikely to transmit the disease. I think someone must have made blood-to-blood contact or else consumed some raw animal material, or maybe there is another explanation - it's actually highly unlikely that we'll ever know exactly how it happened.



tedtan said:


> As for cancer, it is a case of wildly out of control cells growing too fast. Most cancer is not believed to be a result of viruses, but some are. HPV, the sexually transmitted disease, can cause throat cancer, cervical cancer, vaginal cancer, penile cancer and anal cancer. Hepatitis B and C can cause liver cancer. HIV can cause throat, mouth, lung, skin and anal cancer. Herpes can cause cancer, too.
> 
> So yeah, there are several viruses that can be transmitted through blood and/or sexual activity that can result in cancer.



Lots of retrovirii can cause cancer. Cancer is a wide variety of things, but they all start with a malfunction of genetic code. Since a retrovirus goes into an organism's genetic code and starts screwing with it, it increases the risk of developing cancer, just like being exposed to a chemical or form of radiation capable of altering genetic code.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 24, 2017)

According to Dr. Maurice Hilleman, it was the polio vaccines he was working on, sourced from monkeys, that spread SV40 and SIV. Whether that is the case or not is another thing.


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## Petar Bogdanov (Aug 24, 2017)

How is this for a conspiracy theory: Android phones have really hardcore planned obsolescence designed into them, via the following methods:

1. Water resistance 
2. Deliberately limited availability of non-counterfeit batteries
3. No way to reset the flash storage, which gets slower and slower over time
4. Fragility via the war on bezels. Originally, phones used to break only if they fell on their face. Now every hit is on the face.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 24, 2017)

Petar Bogdanov said:


> How is this for a conspiracy theory: Android phones have really hardcore planned obsolescence designed into them, via the following methods:
> 
> 1. Water resistance
> 2. Deliberately limited availability of non-counterfeit batteries
> ...



I'm not sure if this is a conspiracy if everyone agrees, lol! Business practices for many products including phones- 2 year warranty= self destruct at 25 months


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 24, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Here's a can of worms for you all, if anyone wants to discuss:
> 
> Where the hell did HIV come from? Such a serious disease. No record of it prior to 1959, then, by the 1980's, it was epidemic. There are tons of conspiracy theories about the origins of the virus: some think it was created in a laboratory, others think it doesn't even really exist. I think that whatever the case, something crazy must have started it. Colonialism in Africa predates the spread of the disease by centuries.


Microbiology was nonexistent for most of the 19th century and it was still in its infancy in the early 1950s. We were still trying to cure diseases that consistently killed/crippled like polio, tuberculosis, dysentery, etc. The germ theory didn't exist until the mid 1800s when Pasteur definitively showed bacterium being the cause of grape rot/spoiled milk. Hell, antibiotics were only just discovered in the 1940s.
HIV mutates extremely quickly, it's part of why it's so difficult to deal with and come up with a definitive cure. The biggest issue is that the hiv virus makes lots of mistakes during replication and this leads to mutations while also making every method we've come up with less effective over time.

A bit off topic but here's some interesting tidbits that I remember from my medical history classes:
Ignasz Semmelweis (the first doctor to advocate handwashing regimens for doctors) was considered a laughingstock at the time of his theory (very late 1800s). His medical school students wouldn't was their hands after corpse dissections, then used those dirty hands to help deliver children. The infant and maternal mortality rate at his hospital (and other hospitals was through the roof) due to puerperal fever. By forcing the students to wash their hands the mortality rates decreased significantly, though that wasn't good enough for many hospitals to advocate handwashing. Hell the first real disinfectants used in western medicine were not discovered til the 1800s by Joseph lister, the namesake of listerine, fastest amputater in the west, and only surgeon with a 300% patient mortality rate. He figured out that spraying carbolic acid (phenol) onto his surgical tools to disinfect them (and also spraying the wound) prevented infection/necrosis.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 24, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Microbiology was nonexistent for most of the 19th century and it was still in its infancy in the early 1950s. We were still trying to cure diseases that consistently killed/crippled like polio, tuberculosis, dysentery, etc. The germ theory didn't exist until the mid 1800s when Pasteur definitively showed bacterium being the cause of grape rot/spoiled milk. Hell, antibiotics were only just discovered in the 1940s.
> HIV mutates extremely quickly, it's part of why it's so difficult to deal with and come up with a definitive cure. The biggest issue is that the hiv virus makes lots of mistakes during replication and this leads to mutations while also making every method we've come up with less effective over time.
> 
> A bit off topic but here's some interesting tidbits that I remember from my medical history classes:
> Ignasz Semmelweis (the first doctor to advocate handwashing regimens for doctors) was considered a laughingstock at the time of his theory (very late 1800s). His medical school students wouldn't was their hands after corpse dissections, then used those dirty hands to help deliver children. The infant and maternal mortality rate at his hospital (and other hospitals was through the roof) due to puerperal fever. By forcing the students to wash their hands the mortality rates decreased significantly, though that wasn't good enough for many hospitals to advocate handwashing. Hell the first real disinfectants used in western medicine were not discovered til the 1800s by Joseph lister, the namesake of listerine, fastest amputater in the west, and only surgeon with a 300% patient mortality rate. He figured out that spraying carbolic acid (phenol) onto his surgical tools to disinfect them (and also spraying the wound) prevented infection/necrosis.


300% mortality rate? Did you mean 30%?


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 24, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> 300% mortality rate? Did you mean 30%?


Oh my bad, I mixed up Robert Lister and Robert Liston. liston killed 3 patients in one go and was the fastest hand in the west with an amputation saw, not Lister. 
http://www.historyofsurgery.co.uk/Web Pages/0413.htm


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## Petar Bogdanov (Aug 25, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I'm not sure if this is a conspiracy if everyone agrees, lol! Business practices for many products including phones- 2 year warranty= self destruct at 25 months



The thing that defines a conspiracy, is the amount of conspiring going on, it has nothing with the amount of credible evidence.


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## lewis (Aug 25, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Here's a can of worms for you all, if anyone wants to discuss:
> 
> Where the hell did HIV come from? Such a serious disease. No record of it prior to 1959, then, by the 1980's, it was epidemic. There are tons of conspiracy theories about the origins of the virus: some think it was created in a laboratory, others think it doesn't even really exist. I think that whatever the case, something crazy must have started it. Colonialism in Africa predates the spread of the disease by centuries.


quite blatantly a man made virus. Ive always thought as such. It also makes me wonder why certain things STILL have not been cured?. Is it because its genuinely impossible at this stage despite all the money, research and brilliant minds we have globally looking at it?. Or do they just not want it cured?

Cancer for example and the conspiracy of "they" either intentionally somehow make people obtain this illness to being able to profit from it (trillions?), or have no part in people obtaining the illness but intentionally dont just cure it (like a jab for everyone to be immune) because of said profit.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2017)

lewis said:


> quite blatantly a man made virus. Ive always thought as such. It also makes me wonder why certain things STILL have not been cured?. Is it because its genuinely impossible at this stage despite all the money, research and brilliant minds we have globally looking at it?. Or do they just not want it cured?
> 
> Cancer for example and the conspiracy of "they" either intentionally somehow make people obtain this illness to being able to profit from it (trillions?), or have no part in people obtaining the illness but intentionally dont just cure it (like a jab for everyone to be immune) because of said profit.


Part of it has to do with the fact that researching for a cure is big business. Lots of money to be made in that, more so than the cure. If you endlessly research it because it's "incurable," you can make money for decades. 

They make money researching for a cure.
They make money attempting to rid you of it [ie, chemo]
They make money off of the debt [ie, interest]
Then once they've emptied your wallet, you die.


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## lewis (Aug 25, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> .
> 
> They make money researching for a cure.
> They make money attempting to rid you of it [ie, chemo]
> ...



modern life in a nutshell. How sad.
The Matrix's concept is not exactly so far from the truth. We are born purely to be slaves to a system that we give our entire life and its money too, then we die and are replaced by the next generation of slaves.

What a time to exist....


----------



## marcwormjim (Aug 25, 2017)

That reminds me: My DVD of The Matrix is missing the mandated disclaimer sticker about it being allegorical fiction.


----------



## bostjan (Aug 25, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Microbiology was nonexistent for most of the 19th century and it was still in its infancy in the early 1950s. We were still trying to cure diseases that consistently killed/crippled like polio, tuberculosis, dysentery, etc. The germ theory didn't exist until the mid 1800s when Pasteur definitively showed bacterium being the cause of grape rot/spoiled milk. Hell, antibiotics were only just discovered in the 1940s.
> HIV mutates extremely quickly, it's part of why it's so difficult to deal with and come up with a definitive cure. The biggest issue is that the hiv virus makes lots of mistakes during replication and this leads to mutations while also making every method we've come up with less effective over time.
> 
> A bit off topic but here's some interesting tidbits that I remember from my medical history classes:
> Ignasz Semmelweis (the first doctor to advocate handwashing regimens for doctors) was considered a laughingstock at the time of his theory (very late 1800s). His medical school students wouldn't was their hands after corpse dissections, then used those dirty hands to help deliver children. The infant and maternal mortality rate at his hospital (and other hospitals was through the roof) due to puerperal fever. By forcing the students to wash their hands the mortality rates decreased significantly, though that wasn't good enough for many hospitals to advocate handwashing. Hell the first real disinfectants used in western medicine were not discovered til the 1800s by Joseph lister, the namesake of listerine, fastest amputater in the west, and only surgeon with a 300% patient mortality rate. He figured out that spraying carbolic acid (phenol) onto his surgical tools to disinfect them (and also spraying the wound) prevented infection/necrosis.



Microbiology, as the study of microorganisms, existed in antiquity (why we have beer), we just didn't know what microorganisms looked like until the mid 17th century, when the microscope was invented. The germ theory was proposed by Girolamo Fracastoro in 1546, well before the microscope existed. Viruses were discovered in the 19th century. Your time table doesn't really 100% mesh with my understanding of the history of medicine (I'm not a medical professional, unless you argue in the broadest terms). But I still think I see your point, because the gist of everything you said is indisputable: we really knew nothing about medicine until recent history. There may have been some folks out there way ahead of their time, but the larger medical community usually scoffed at those people. Still, though, even thought we didn't know how to treat polio or rabies or smallpox, etc., we still knew what they were. No one knew what HIV was until the 1980's, and then, looking at historical cases, those only went back as far as 1959, with doctors being baffled at what was, at that time, a totally new disease (as far as written documents).

So, in one way, you are 100% correct, that we would have had no idea how to deal with HIV in the umpteenth century, but the fact remains that there is strong evidence that the disease is significantly newer than our understanding of diagnosis of diseases like it. That makes it seem like HIV just appeared one day, and then, not too long after, had infected a portion of the human population worldwide.

If that doesn't make the perfect incubator for conspiracy theories, I don't know what does.


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## marcwormjim (Aug 25, 2017)

It may be a tie between that and an absence of intellectual accountability combined with a habit of lazily attributing agency to any causal links not readily apparent.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 25, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Microbiology, as the study of microorganisms, existed in antiquity (why we have beer), we just didn't know what microorganisms looked like until the mid 17th century, when the microscope was invented. The germ theory was proposed by Girolamo Fracastoro in 1546, well before the microscope existed. Viruses were discovered in the 19th century. Your time table doesn't really 100% mesh with my understanding of the history of medicine (I'm not a medical professional, unless you argue in the broadest terms). But I still think I see your point, because the gist of everything you said is indisputable: we really knew nothing about medicine until recent history. There may have been some folks out there way ahead of their time, but the larger medical community usually scoffed at those people. Still, though, even thought we didn't know how to treat polio or rabies or smallpox, etc., we still knew what they were. No one knew what HIV was until the 1980's, and then, looking at historical cases, those only went back as far as 1959, with doctors being baffled at what was, at that time, a totally new disease (as far as written documents).
> 
> So, in one way, you are 100% correct, that we would have had no idea how to deal with HIV in the umpteenth century, but the fact remains that there is strong evidence that the disease is significantly newer than our understanding of diagnosis of diseases like it. That makes it seem like HIV just appeared one day, and then, not too long after, had infected a portion of the human population worldwide.
> 
> If that doesn't make the perfect incubator for conspiracy theories, I don't know what does.


Fracastoro had a version of germ theory, but it was not considered correct at the time (the prevailing theory was that of miasma theory). He also proposed that they caused diseases, but again, this theory wasn't widely accepted until the 1800s. While people had some rudimentary knowledge of microorganisms, they didn't accept that they caused disease until Pasteur proved the germ theory and John Snow(father of modern epidemiology/discovered how cholera is transmitted)/Semmelweis/Lister helped further cement that idea.
This is a good overview on HIV: 
The video really downplays how many errors HIV makes during transcription (it's a lot, which is why it's so difficult to fight, it constantly changes the receptors/confirmations we use to attack it)
There have been some cases of people being cured of HIV for a time, with one child being cured for about a year after she was born (she was given intense retroviral med dosages). The only person to be completely cured was a cancer patient who after going through chemo/surgery received a bone marrow transplant from someone with a natural resistance to HIV


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## marcwormjim (Aug 25, 2017)

Eh - The less I understand about HIV, the more reasonable my conjectures seem to me. Frankly, I cured mine with Tylenol.


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## bostjan (Aug 25, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> Eh - The less I understand about HIV, the more reasonable my conjectures seem to me. Frankly, I cured mine with Tylenol.


Savage.

BTW, is your screen name marc-worm-jim or marc-w-or-m-jim or just said reallyfast "marcwormjim"?


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## marcwormjim (Aug 25, 2017)

No matter how you pronounce it, it's retarded.


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## Steinmetzify (Aug 25, 2017)

Fun thread....really enjoyed most of it. I got into it awhile back with a guy on TGP who claimed Bigfoot existed because there was no proof he didn't. Part of that exchange:


'MoxSAM said: Assuming they aren't real is just as silly as assuming they are.

Possibilities man. Possibilities.'


My reply:

'That's not a logical conclusion, man. By this reasoning, all kinds of things could exist completely disregarding anything like evidence. We assume Bigfoot doesn't exist because of lack of evidence, and you're saying there's literally no reason to do so.

So by this, we can go ahead and assume dragons might be real, fairies might be real, Atlantis might be real, and so on and so forth.

You're basically stating that all of these things _could_ be real because assuming that things don't exist based on the remoteness of the locations that exist in the world and fact that no one has been there means that there is a way for them to exist outside the scope of human consciousness/interaction/experience.

Which would mean that literally every single person that has claimed to see Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster or fairies or dragons or whatever has been completely wrong, because no one has ever been to those locations, which are literally the only places on the land masses of the entire planet where these things could exist.

So either way, the people that claim to be eyewitnesses are all wrong, all the time.

It's one or the other.

Either A: there's physical evidence, and I mean a literal fuck-ton of it because if these things regularly come into contact with humans (and according to eyewitnesses this happens every day and twice on Sundays) there would just have to be. Locard's exchange principle proves this. Every contact leaves trace, both ways...but there isn't any. So all of those people are lying.

Or B: These things do exist, and they do it in the smallest most undiscovered places on the planet, avoiding satellite imagery, people like yourself flying above taking photographs etc....which also means that everyone who claims to have seen one is lying because there have never been humans where these things live, therefore no human could have ever seen one. Also means all the other things that people claim to see without any evidence whatsoever live in the same spot....dragons, fairies, aliens, the entire kingdom of Atlantis. All of these things living together in a remote spot high in the mountains getting along, not eating each other, breeding and working together to avoid discovery.

And still no pics, no bones, no decomposing bodies, none captured on satellite images ever...which if you assume dragons are real and they're like their story counterparts (cause why not, right?) these things are enormous and have huge wings and appetites. Never seen a dragon hunting on a satellite image...interesting to me because in the pics posted a dragon would almost certainly have to fly above the forest, not in it...there's no room.

Anyway....you stated that 'Assuming they aren't real is just as silly as assuming they are.'...just wanted to say with regards to evidence, location and the 'integrity' of eyewitnesses, assuming they're real is MUCH more silly than assuming they aren't.

I will agree with your possibility though.....could the thing exist? Sure. It's just that all of the factors that would have to be in place to make it so are almost non-existent.'

This was just part of the exchange......was a giant thread that ended up with something like 300 pages. I had a lot of fun with that guy. 

I was really into this stuff as a kid. I loved these stories, but as I got older the inconsistencies began to add up. All of these hunters in the woods every year....literally many times more than all of the members of the US Armed Forces combined, and no one ever shot one. No one has ever found a dead one, no one has ever gotten a really good picture or film of one, no one has ever found bones, etc. Same for the Loch Ness Monster, Skunk Ape, Yetis, aliens or all the other things that are on the worst supermarket 'newspaper' rags.

I've heard all the stories about how Bigfoots bury their dead, how they live in other dimensions, etc. It all just sounds like crap that people who believe in this thing make up whenever anyone questions them about daily evidence that absolutely MUST exist if this thing were real, but somehow just doesn't.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2017)

Like, whoa dude. You two sound like a couple of stoners, maaaannnn.

Just some harmless ribbing, Steinmetz.


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## Steinmetzify (Aug 25, 2017)

No worries Ace...that's how it always feels to me when I engage people like that. Like I actually have to get into a druggie mindset to converse with them on their level lol.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 25, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> No worries Ace...that's how it always feels to me when I engage people like that. Like I actually have to get into a druggie mindset to converse with them on their level lol.




I'll be honest -- I think Big Foot could exist, but dude needed a little more evidence than just, "Well no one's proved he doesn't." No one has proven that a unicorn doesn't exist. Doesn't mean it does.


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## Steinmetzify (Aug 25, 2017)

So now we're back to conspiracy theories. Good deal.

I think it could too......but like I said above, "could the thing exist? Sure. It's just that all of the factors that would have to be in place to make it so are almost non-existent."

I just find it really hard to believe, for all the reasons I stated above, that it does. No dead ones, no live ones, no conclusive proof, no hair, no bones, nothing even remotely resembling anything like evidence. 

It's always a dude who knows a dude, or some guy named Bubba in a trucker hat telling someone that while he was drinking one night he saw Bigfoot....he's always 'spent his entire life in the woods and knows every sound and smell' etc...and this night was nothing he'd ever experienced before.'

I just really don't get people like this.....it's like no one could possibly come up with any other explanation than

ALIENSGOVERNMENTBIGFOOTALTERNATEREALITIESFAIRIES

Do I believe in weird shit happening? Could there be huge conspiracies or even small ones (Dyatlov Pass)? Yeah, absolutely, and those people are fun to converse with. 

The guys that freak me out are the ones that insist that conspiracies are everywhere. "Holy shit it just got really bright in here.....aliens!"

Relax homie, I turned on a lamp....


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## lewis (Aug 26, 2017)

Playing devils advocate for a moment. Didnt the largest colony of Gorillas stay completely hidden and off the map for centuries and were only discovered by sheer chance?.
Until that discovery the "no bones, images, bodies etc" way of looking at it, would have rung true for them too.
If they can live like that for years and years undisturbed, then theoretically so could Big foot but only if there were more than a handful living together socially like gorillas.
No way in hell there is like just 1 big foot keeping himself alive in some woods somewhere then thousands of miles elsewhere another doing the same in the mountains etc.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 26, 2017)

lewis said:


> Playing devils advocate for a moment. Didnt the largest colony of Gorillas stay completely hidden and off the map for centuries and were only discovered by sheer chance?.
> Until that discovery the "no bones, images, bodies etc" way of looking at it, would have rung true for them too.
> If they can live like that for years and years undisturbed, then theoretically so could Big foot but only if there were more than a handful living together socially like gorillas.
> No way in hell there is like just 1 big foot keeping himself alive in some woods somewhere then thousands of miles elsewhere another doing the same in the mountains etc.


It's because they are interdimensional space demons from hell. Duh.


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## Steinmetzify (Aug 26, 2017)

lewis said:


> Playing devils advocate for a moment. Didnt the largest colony of Gorillas stay completely hidden and off the map for centuries and were only discovered by sheer chance?.
> Until that discovery the "no bones, images, bodies etc" way of looking at it, would have rung true for them too.
> If they can live like that for years and years undisturbed, then theoretically so could Big foot but only if there were more than a handful living together socially like gorillas.
> No way in hell there is like just 1 big foot keeping himself alive in some woods somewhere then thousands of miles elsewhere another doing the same in the mountains etc.



Good point, but the thing missing is the actual evidence. There were stories of gorillas as far back as 500BC, but it wasn't until 1836 that Savage actually got physical evidence, including a skull. People realized they were looking at a new species, and classified it. 

So yeah, along those lines it could exist but the stories of these things are just as ancient as those of gorillas, and still zero verifiable evidence, even though if it did exist this would be almost impossible. There would have to be significant numbers to have a breeding population. 

Gorillas remained elusive simply because of the fact that people rarely went where they lived, but once people got there evidence was all over the place. You've got people all over the country (just talking about the US) claiming to see this thing everywhere, and still no bones, no identifiable hairs, no verifiable footprints, just nothing. 

I do find it interesting that almost all cultures have something like this....giant hairy thing that lives in the forest and is rarely seen, but all cultures suffer the same problem as far as lack of evidence. 

I wouldn't believe anyone that told me they'd seen a Bigfoot; there's never been anything ever that convinced me they exist, so someone telling me that is mistaken until proven otherwise.


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## lewis (Aug 26, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> Good point, but the thing missing is the actual evidence. There were stories of gorillas as far back as 500BC, but it wasn't until 1836 that Savage actually got physical evidence, including a skull. People realized they were looking at a new species, and classified it.
> 
> So yeah, along those lines it could exist but the stories of these things are just as ancient as those of gorillas, and still zero verifiable evidence, even though if it did exist this would be almost impossible. There would have to be significant numbers to have a breeding population.
> 
> ...



I genuine think Bigfoot sightings and the "myth" just originate from people who like to completely embellish the truth.

2 dudes in the woods hear a branch snap, turn around and just catch the sight of a fury creature as it runs out of sight. Not enough to see what it is so could easily be an animal we know about that lives there.
Suddenly they have worked themselves up in fear and the next thing you know they are telling everyone they seen a "10 feet giant hairy beast creature that could run. It climbed a tree, waved, flung poo (then picked it up again to not leave evidence), signed an autograph, high fived them then run away.

slightly off topic but still related. One time I was out in a really rural village I used to live at, with a mate of mine. We had ventured through some fields and some woodland area and came to a sort of more open section. In the middle of the clearing was an old brick cow shed. Surrounding it completely was like just under waist high thick weeds. (stinging nettles we call these in the UK).
After being in there (the cow shed) messing about for probably around 10 minutes we hear a rushing noise towards us and as we turn, a large black animal of some description with what looked like a cat tail that was just poking up above the weeds, ran through these thick weeds just away from us and disappeared into the trees at the edge of the clearing. Was close enough to see its size roughly but still far enough away that the weeds helped completely cover it so confirming its I.D was impossible.

Now there have been "big cat" sighting reports in this village before. Including one report from a woman that claims she was driving along a road in a 4x4 and out of nowhere a puma/panther jumped out of a field, onto her bonnet, then off her bonnet and into the next field opposite and ran away. Was it that I saw?. no idea. Have I ever told anyone this story before? no. If I had would I have been adamant it WAS a panther or something similar? no.
Thats the difference. These Bigfoot sightee's just completely run away with it.
*sees blury brown shape run by*
"It was a 12 foot hairy man that could run like a human with fangs as large as a sabertooth! and its eyes!?...its eyes shined through my soul"


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## Steinmetzify (Aug 26, 2017)

Least you're rational about what you saw; like you said, that's the thing that gets me. 

Couldn't POSSIBLY have been anything else! Only Bigfoot!


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 27, 2017)

lewis said:


> slightly off topic but still related. One time I was out in a really rural village I used to live at, with a mate of mine. We had ventured through some fields and some woodland area and came to a sort of more open section. In the middle of the clearing was an old brick cow shed. Surrounding it completely was like just under waist high thick weeds. (stinging nettles we call these in the UK).
> After being in there (the cow shed) messing about for probably around 10 minutes we hear a rushing noise towards us and as we turn, a large black animal of some description with what looked like a cat tail that was just poking up above the weeds, ran through these thick weeds just away from us and disappeared into the trees at the edge of the clearing. Was close enough to see its size roughly but still far enough away that the weeds helped completely cover it so confirming its I.D was impossible.
> 
> Now there have been "big cat" sighting reports in this village before. Including one report from a woman that claims she was driving along a road in a 4x4 and out of nowhere a puma/panther jumped out of a field, onto her bonnet, then off her bonnet and into the next field opposite and ran away. Was it that I saw?. no idea. Have I ever told anyone this story before? no. If I had would I have been adamant it WAS a panther or something similar? no.
> "


clearly a werepanther


----------



## lewis (Aug 27, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> clearly a werepanther


it stood 12 feet tall I tell you.


----------



## marcwormjim (Aug 27, 2017)

That skunk ape had impure relations with me and committed lewd acts upon my person.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Aug 27, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> That skunk ape had impure relations with me and committed lewd acts upon my person.


I'MA KILL THAT SKUNK APE!

Awesome House of 1000 Corpses reference.


----------



## crankyrayhanky (Aug 27, 2017)

Ever see or read Missing 411?
That will creep the f out of you!
There's mostly national park stuff, there's urban disappearances too.
They don't dive into what/who is doing it (BigFoot?) but it's happening


----------



## cwhitey2 (Aug 27, 2017)

Tupac is alive and living in Cuba.


----------



## Steinmetzify (Aug 27, 2017)

Some new stuff, some old stuff (for people that might just be getting into this kind of thing). NSFW, language. It's Cracked.com, but they get the stories right...just add some humor. 

http://www.cracked.com/article_19765_the-5-creepiest-disappearances-that-nobody-can-explain.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_16871_6-insane-discoveries-that-science-cant-explain.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_16501_6-people-who-just-fucking-disappeared.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_18459_the-5-creepiest-unsolved-crimes-nobody-can-explain.html

http://www.cracked.com/article_16671_6-famous-unsolved-mysteries-with-really-obvious-solutions.html

The ones that have always gotten me are the ones where people just vanish...no clues, weird circumstances etc.....just. fucking. VANISH.

I get that there's an explanation, most of the time. Credit card debt, hated marriage, trouble with your bookie or whatever, and most of the time there's an explanation, even if we don't know what it is. People have proven time and time again that no one ever really knows anyone, and that even your nicest next door neighbor who walks your dog when you're out of town, gives faithfully to church and charity and loves his wife and kids can be someone who apparently needs to disappear. I get it.

But the weird ones, the ones where as far as is known don't ascribe themselves to any of the things above, really get me.

Dude stops his car to walk into a liquor store, leaves his wife in the car, comes back out 3 minutes later and she's gone, leaving her purse, cell phone etc and is literally never seen again? WHAT THE F*CK! Where do these people GO? Do they all end up in the back of a van and then end up in the ground and that's why? I mean, that's the most logical explanation, right? But damn.....seriously, ALL these people just vanish? It's insane.

The other ones that get me are the Toynbee Tiles and the Taman Shud case.....both of these are completely maddening to me for the simple fact of lack of information.


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## marcwormjim (Aug 28, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Ever see or read Missing 411?
> That will creep the f out of you!
> There's mostly national park stuff, there's urban disappearances too.
> They don't dive into what/who is doing it (BigFoot?) but it's happening



How is a flat earth not the explanation?


----------



## bostjan (Aug 28, 2017)

Not saying that there is no bigfoot, but there are a few weaknesses in the comparison with gorillas.

1. Gorillas were known to indigenous peoples who lived near their habitat. They only became known to European people after those people began exploring the area. If bigfoot lives somewhere in Appalachia, it'd be likely that we would have stronger evidence he exists.
2. All other apes originate from Africa or Asia. Discovering a new species of ape in Africa would be far less surprising than discovering a new species of ape in North America, or, actually, any place other than Africa or Asia.
3. We still discover new species of animals every few days, just about, but the early 1800's was a virtual dark age for biological knowledge compared to present day. With 15± different species of great apes known to exist, it's a pretty high priority for biologists to understand them. Apes are large and difficult to miss. Almost all of the new species being discovered are either a) already known to exist, but found to be a separate species from something else we once thought to be the same, b) living in the ocean, or c) small organisms that are not so difficult to miss.

So, it is interesting that things like gorillas (or more recently bonobos) were not known to western biologists until fairly recently, the chance of discovering a new species of great ape outside of Africa and Asia in the 21st century is looking pretty remote, and the two hardly correlate to each other. On the other hand, there is a decent chance of maybe discovering a new species of great ape in Africa sometime in our lifetime.


----------



## lewis (Aug 28, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Not saying that there is no bigfoot, but there are a few weaknesses in the comparison with gorillas.
> 
> 1. Gorillas were known to indigenous peoples who lived near their habitat. They only became known to European people after those people began exploring the area. If bigfoot lives somewhere in Appalachia, it'd be likely that we would have stronger evidence he exists.
> 2. All other apes originate from Africa or Asia. Discovering a new species of ape in Africa would be far less surprising than discovering a new species of ape in North America, or, actually, any place other than Africa or Asia.
> ...



Oh yeah for sure. I was defo playing devils advocate with my post and really, I was not looking at it in that in depth manner.
Just the more simple idea that some animals can stay hidden on this planet (except if you live in the jungle with them lol)

But yeah these days, chances are, if they DID exist, they are now extinct before any proof was found.


----------



## bostjan (Aug 28, 2017)

Maybe Orang-pendek will be discovered in Indonesia, or maybe they'll find some sort of cryptid in Northern Canada, since it's sparsely populated, and there are some interesting ecosystems there.


----------



## takotakumi (Sep 8, 2017)

Just saw this video on my FB feed about these 3 hurricanes caused by haarp :v


----------



## lewis (Sep 8, 2017)

takotakumi said:


> Just saw this video on my FB feed about these 3 hurricanes caused by haarp :v


nothing surprises me anymore tbh


----------



## takotakumi (Sep 8, 2017)

I didn't finish watching the full 14 min but I saw another older 6 min version which also linked earthquakes to haarp since "earthquakes are preceded by ionosphere disturbances" and boom we have that Mexico quake earlier today haha


----------



## bostjan (Sep 8, 2017)

Sounds like pretty tight logic there - This happened, then this happened afterward, therefore, the HAARP machine is responsible.
I'm coining a new latin phrase to describe this logic: "Post hoc, ergo propter HAARP."
What do you think? 

You know what I think? I think that the changes in ocean temperatures is causing more swirling patterns in weather along the equator, which, in turn, spawns more tropical storms and increases the magnitude of those tropical storms. I think it's analogous to a heat engine. You heat up one side of the engine, and it moves to where the cooler side was, pushing the cooler side into the heat, resulting in rotation. Increase the heat into the hot side, and the rotation provides more torque and higher RPM. Heat the Earth more from the northern hemisphere and not-as-more from the southern hemisphere, and you increase the torque and speed of seasonal equatorial weather patterns.


----------



## takotakumi (Sep 8, 2017)

I feel dumb as fuck right now

After reading your comment


......finally realized why the HAARP machine band is called like that


----------



## takotakumi (Sep 8, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Sounds like pretty tight logic there - This happened, then this happened afterward, therefore, the HAARP machine is responsible.
> I'm coining a new latin phrase to describe this logic: "Post hoc, ergo propter HAARP."
> What do you think?
> 
> You know what I think? I think that the changes in ocean temperatures is causing more swirling patterns in weather along the equator, which, in turn, spawns more tropical storms and increases the magnitude of those tropical storms. I think it's analogous to a heat engine. You heat up one side of the engine, and it moves to where the cooler side was, pushing the cooler side into the heat, resulting in rotation. Increase the heat into the hot side, and the rotation provides more torque and higher RPM. Heat the Earth more from the northern hemisphere and not-as-more from the southern hemisphere, and you increase the torque and speed of seasonal equatorial weather patterns.



You just took my back to my Thermodynamics class back in college haha
but yeah precisely!


----------



## bostjan (Sep 8, 2017)

takotakumi said:


> I feel dumb as fuck right now
> 
> After reading your comment
> 
> ...



No worries, the actual HAARP machine is a pretty esoteric conspiracy theory; I'm sure most people never heard of it unless they knew of the band first.


----------



## marcwormjim (Sep 9, 2017)

ss.org reserves the right to modify or remove posted content for any reason. So let's indulge in wild speculation as to why the powers-that-be chose to delete not only my parody Wylde Audio guitar review, but posts referencing it:

1. WA/Schecter are a current or prospective sponsor; and censorship was deemed a diplomatic imperative of utmost necessity.
2. A moderator who may or may not have recently acquired a Gangrene Bullseye Warhammer was most-unamused.
3. Zakk Wylde detected a disturbance in the Force, and willed it out of existence.
4. Aliens.
5. A mole moderator given to _buffoonery _intended to delete references to HAARP, but made a critical error involving a forgotten roller skate, a peanut butter sandwich, and a lever.
6. George Bush hates black guitars.
7. My post has been quarantined by the SCP Foundation as a Keter-class memetic cognitohazard.
8. Who can say that my post was _ever really here in the first place?_


Our duly appointed SevenString agents have standards to uphold, but must themselves be held to such standards. In short, I feel this kind of oppression is not what we should be associating with the SS.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 9, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> ss.org reserves the right to modify or remove posted content for any reason. So let's indulge in wild speculation as to why the powers-that-be chose to delete not only my parody Wylde Audio guitar review, but posts referencing it:
> 
> 1. WA/Schecter are a current or prospective sponsor; and censorship was deemed a diplomatic imperative of utmost necessity.
> 2. A moderator who may or may not have recently acquired a Gangrene Bullseye Warhammer was most-unamused.
> ...


Frankly, the joke wasn't very funny to begin with. "Oh, a fake NGD thread... never seen one of these before."

Also, is that some straight up slick wording or what? "I feel this kind of oppression is not what we should be associating with the SS"? I'm sorry, but that phrasing is funnier than that entire thread was. Seriously, oppression, and SS... if that wasn't intentional, it sure was unintended hilarity.


----------



## marcwormjim (Sep 9, 2017)

They can't all be zingers.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 9, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> They can't all be zingers.


No, but the oppression line was fucking hysterical.


----------



## Bobro (Sep 9, 2017)

Here's what I think about Bigfoot, Yeti, and the Chinese red-haired yeti: There were these anthropologists in Africa, talking to a jungle tribe. The tribe was telling them about this big-ass mythical creature in the jungle they believed in. Upon being shown a picture of a rhinocerous, they said, yes, that's it! But the rhino hasn't been anywhere near them for 10,000 years (local climate and biome changing thing)- they'd just kept the memory alive all that time. Same thing happened with the supposedly legendary Bunyip in Australia- when shown an artist's rendering, from bones dug up, of a giant mammal that's been extinct for 20-30,000, years, the Aborigines said yes, that's a perfect picture of the Bunyip! 

That's what I think Bigfoot and the Yeti are- true stories kept alive for thousands of years. In a related story, to show the power of memory via stories and song, about 15-20 years ago in teh US an African-American lady was singing a little song at work and an anthropologist overheard her and said "that sounds familiar" and asked where she'd learned it. From her grandmother, who learned it from her grandmother, and so on. So, her family was brought from Africa 400 years ago, and the anthropologist, using the song, was able to locate exactly which village in Africa they came from, they still sing it there and only there. The African-American lady had the words and notes exactly right, even though she didn't understand any of the words. An interesting and sad touch to the story is that the family had sung it as a lullaby for four centuries, but it has always been a traditional funeral song.


----------



## IGC (Sep 9, 2017)

My two favourite more recent bigfoot footage;



Are these guys acting? Start watching @ min 3:30


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 9, 2017)

That first one is pretty obviously a fake.


----------



## IGC (Sep 10, 2017)

Appears to be the most realistic footage out there from what I'v seen... not that I believe it is real.


----------



## takotakumi (Sep 11, 2017)

I started watching this new documentary on Netflix called "The Unacknowledged" 

So far its basically a the main guy from The Disclosure Project showing us how there's an insane
amount of documents, whistleblowers, and evidence about UFOs and how ruthlessly the government goes about
keeping UFO secrecy. I know that sounded like your typical UFO documentary but this one seems 
more interesting to me. They bring out some other perspectives about the phenomenon that I have 
not seen before like how UFOs appear next to nuclear weapon facilities and they seem to appear to 
prevent nuclear weapons from exploding in outer space.(good guys?)

Only seen the first 30 mins and so far so good :v


----------



## takotakumi (Sep 11, 2017)

Also wanted to comment about something that maybe some of you might know what the cause is since its weird...

This year I started having a couple of these weird experiences. So basically my room is pitch black as I am about to sleep
and there have been a few random flashes of light just as I am about to sleep(eyes closed). At first I thought it might have been a passing
car's lights but my windows are blocked from curtains and on top of that one of those blankets to keep sunlight from entering...
So far its been like 2 or 3 times and whenever it happens I just "wake" shocked af. I hear some sort of "click" too but not always...

My stupidest idea was that it was some sort of hidden flash and someone/something taking a picture of me while I sleep haha

Did some research yesterday (for some reason I remembered and tried to "debunk it") and appears to be some sort of combination
of sleep paralysis with the retinas being exhausted from too much light (or along those lines), that triggers a hallucinatory flash in the retinas
and thus makes me "see things".

Anyone know more about this?


----------



## bostjan (Sep 11, 2017)

I saw flashes just a couple days ago myself, with my eyes closed. It shocked me enough that I sat up in bed before I realized that nothing really happened. I know that what I saw seemed very real. It's weird.


----------



## Ebony (Sep 11, 2017)

Speaking of paranormal experiences, I once dreamed of a girl BEFORE I met her. I was starting my second year in High School, she was a year older, blond, blue eyed, petite and I think she was a member of the special class (compiled of everything from full-on retarded people to genius kids with aspbergers). 

I thought maybe it was all bullshit because for a Norwegian girl she didn't exactly stand out, or that I had somehow seen her somewhere before (although we didn't live near each other). Maybe I had, I don't know, but it was a pretty special experience especially given how badly I lusted after her.
Never made a move though, I was too busy being annoyed at everything in the world and listening to brutal shit


----------



## Rosal76 (Sep 19, 2017)

In my never ending quest to find/watch as many alien/conspiracy/urban legends/etc,etc,etc. shows that I can, found a new one not to long ago. Actor Rob Lowe now has his own show. It's basically him and his 2 sons as they travel to different locations in the U.S. Although I am a huge fan of what he is doing and will continue to watch, his show brings nothing to the table that other shows aren't doing/already done. The only thing different is that him and his 2 sons like to crack jokes which in other shows of the same nature, everyone is dead serious. Only Josh Gates of Destination Truth/Expedition Unknown has done it (shows) longer and is funnier.

In other conspiracy news... Just watched a documentary on Camp Hero/Montauk. I wasn't familiar with this case so it's all brand new to me. In a nutshell, Montauk Air Force station which is in New York is rumored to have secret military experiments back in the day. The location of the camp is really nice in a eerie way, of course.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 19, 2017)

What about the Montauk Monster.


----------



## Rosal76 (Sep 19, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> What about the Montauk Monster.



They did show a single picture of the monster in the documentary I saw but they were more focused on finding hidden tunnels/rooms at the Montauk base and any witnesses that could reveal anything new. The base itself is difficult to investigate because civilians aren't allowed there. People, however, climb the fence illegally and film stuff.


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## takotakumi (Sep 19, 2017)

everyone ready for the end of the world on saturday


----------



## Rosal76 (Sep 19, 2017)

takotakumi said:


> everyone ready for the end of the world on saturday



Damn it!!! Was waiting for Beyond Creation's 3rd album.


----------



## takotakumi (Sep 19, 2017)

Rosal76 said:


> Damn it!!! Was waiting for Beyond Creation's 3rd album.


Alkaloid #2*****************


----------



## MFB (Sep 19, 2017)

Rosal76 said:


> Damn it!!! Was waiting for Beyond Creation's 3rd album.



Shit man, I don't care if #3 never comes, just give me a god damn US tour!

That's the real conspiracy theory - why won't B.C. tour the US?!


----------



## takotakumi (Sep 19, 2017)

MFB said:


> Shit man, I don't care if #3 never comes, just give me a god damn US tour!
> 
> That's the real conspiracy theory - why won't B.C. tour the US?!


This!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They toured last year but it was very few cities.

But like for real they never tour here hmm.....


----------



## lewis (Oct 4, 2017)

i think the recent Vegas terrorist shooting could easily be added here.

Seems to me, based on footage, there was another gunmen?. Or at least the event did not go down exactly as we were told it did.
Which just like all the others conspiracies, means if there is even 1% lied about, it throws doubt on the whole thing. Im not saying people were not killed, but is the "shooter" and his actions genuine to the official report? hmmm another intriguing, vague, and possibly lie filled USA event.


----------



## marcwormjim (Oct 4, 2017)

I refer the casual viewer to my initial posted conspiracy concerning popcorn, and how no one had to die for the sake of it.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 4, 2017)

lewis said:


> i think the recent Vegas terrorist shooting could easily be added here.
> 
> Seems to me, based on footage, there was another gunmen?. Or at least the event did not go down exactly as we were told it did.
> Which just like all the others conspiracies, means if there is even 1% lied about, it throws doubt on the whole thing. Im not saying people were not killed, but is the "shooter" and his actions genuine to the official report? hmmm another intriguing, vague, and possibly lie filled USA event.


I think you're going to get lambasted in rather quick fashion, but the thread is dead and needs some new life, so whatever. That said, I think you're possibly onto something. The problem with saying something was "fake" or a conspiracy theory is that people think "oh, fake = none of it happened." Well, while it's not the same scale at all, people call wrestling "fake," but it's not. I mean, I'm sure getting suplexed by Brock Lesnar doesn't feel good no matter how "fake" it is. Scripted, or possibly manipulated, I think, would be better terms in both cases.

Then again, the US government and the media have been lying to the American public through propaganda and fake news for decades [depending upon how cynical, perhaps almost 100 years, if not more], so what do they expect? In fact, I think lying is the only thing either industry are all that good and successful at.


----------



## lewis (Oct 4, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I think you're going to get lambasted in rather quick fashion, but the thread is dead and needs some new life, so whatever. That said, I think you're possibly onto something. The problem with saying something was "fake" or a conspiracy theory is that people think "oh, fake = none of it happened." Well, while it's not the same scale at all, people call wrestling "fake," but it's not. I mean, I'm sure getting suplexed by Brock Lesnar doesn't feel good no matter how "fake" it is. Scripted, or possibly manipulated, I think, would be better terms in both cases.
> 
> Then again, the US government and the media have been lying to the American public through propaganda and fake news for decades [depending upon how cynical, perhaps almost 100 years, if not more], so what do they expect? In fact, I think lying is the only thing either industry are all that good and successful at.


yeah for sure.
People are obviously dead and that much we know is real.
But how it all went down could easily be the scripted part.

The thing is, the USA government, IF actually always completely innocent, do not cover themselves in glory with this "lets withhold the REAL info from the public due to protecting national security"

they come across as liars whether they planned it or not.

To me, its possible that its the next thing in a line to try and do away with guns.

We had "children shooters" that didnt work, we had the modern "muslim terror threat" and that isnt working, now it seems we are getting generic white American Soccer Dads with no apparent motive gunning people down.

Perhaps thats the last resort for people to switch their perspective to "maybe we should ban guns"


----------



## CrazyDean (Oct 4, 2017)

It's a little early to start talking conspiracy. Let's give the investigators some time to do their jobs and see what comes of it. It's also common to see everyone get upset and point fingers very quickly, then by the time the facts come through, no one cares because we're onto some new talking point.

For now, let's just allow people to grieve.


----------



## Lemonbaby (Oct 4, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> How is a flat earth not the explanation?


Exactly, man. For E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G.


----------



## Bobro (Oct 4, 2017)

A friend took a photo of a local cryptid, up on the mountain next to the city. Pretty trippy, but after some discussion I figured out that it must be a polecat (they're known for giantism, which explains the relatively huge size of the thing).


----------



## bostjan (Oct 4, 2017)

lewis said:


> i think the recent Vegas terrorist shooting could easily be added here.
> 
> Seems to me, based on footage, there was another gunmen?. Or at least the event did not go down exactly as we were told it did.
> Which just like all the others conspiracies, means if there is even 1% lied about, it throws doubt on the whole thing. Im not saying people were not killed, but is the "shooter" and his actions genuine to the official report? hmmm another intriguing, vague, and possibly lie filled USA event.


ISIS claims that they were involved. Not too weird, right, because they don't care about lying, do they? Except that, historically, they have not made such false claims before...well, maybe they're getting desperate...except it does seem like there are a few things that might lend some credibility to the claim. They've also doubled down and said it's not a false claim, for whatever the he'll that's worth.

I think, one way or the other, there's just going to be a lot of conspiracy theory stuff over this one.


----------



## bostjan (Oct 4, 2017)

lewis said:


> i think the recent Vegas terrorist shooting could easily be added here.
> 
> Seems to me, based on footage, there was another gunmen?. Or at least the event did not go down exactly as we were told it did.
> Which just like all the others conspiracies, means if there is even 1% lied about, it throws doubt on the whole thing. Im not saying people were not killed, but is the "shooter" and his actions genuine to the official report? hmmm another intriguing, vague, and possibly lie filled USA event.


ISIS claims that they were involved. Not too weird, right, because they don't care about lying, do they? Except that, historically, they have not made such false claims before...well, maybe they're getting desperate...except it does seem like there are a few things that might lend some credibility to the claim. They've also doubled down and said it's not a false claim, for whatever the he'll that's worth.

I think, one way or the other, there's just going to be a lot of conspiracy theory stuff over this one.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 9, 2017)

so someone on facebook sent me this video, and it's questioning whether an AR with a bump stock was actually used. I know that ARs generally cycle a lot faster than the audio from the shooting (at least when fully cycling they're around 800 rpm). Personally I think it's strange that the firing rate doesn't exactly match, but I don't see a reason for anyone to lie about the weapon used in the shooting.




here's one showing how you can bump fire with just your finger:

Most of the videos I posted show variable fire rates and if the shooter was really holding the weapon tight the rate of fire WOULD be faster than from the footage at vegas, though again, the fire rate is determined by the user and how hard they're pushing the stock into themselves.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 10, 2017)

There was a post on 4chan that I saw on Facebook making the rounds that was kind of interesting. Someone posted anonymously that they were from LVPD, they had found out the guy was an arms dealer and was selling guns to ISIS cells in America, they found he was an FBI informant, killed him and shot all the people. They claimed LVPD was disgusted with the FBI for covering it up and that they were looking for a way to leak info, or something to that effect. Obviously, being anonymous on 4chan, anyone can post anything they choose, but it's the only alternate theory that's made that much sense to me. 

Whatever the truth is, I doubt we'll ever know.


----------



## lewis (Oct 10, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> There was a post on 4chan that I saw on Facebook making the rounds that was kind of interesting. Someone posted anonymously that they were from LVPD, they had found out the guy was an arms dealer and was selling guns to ISIS cells in America, they found he was an FBI informant, killed him and shot all the people. They claimed LVPD was disgusted with the FBI for covering it up and that they were looking for a way to leak info, or something to that effect. Obviously, being anonymous on 4chan, anyone can post anything they choose, but it's the only alternate theory that's made that much sense to me.
> 
> Whatever the truth is, I doubt we'll ever know.


ah ok

yeah that makes alot of sense to me too. No way it went down as they claimed it did.

so yet another lied about, covered up event.

So sick and tired of lies.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 10, 2017)

lewis said:


> ah ok
> 
> yeah that makes alot of sense to me too. No way it went down as they claimed it did.
> 
> ...


Thank MI5, MI6, CIA, and FBI. All alphabet agencies do is pull this shit in their own respective countries and others and are generally pretty useless if you compare the ratio of good to bad.


----------



## cwhitey2 (Oct 16, 2017)

...so I have a flat earther at work...here are some vids he shared with me...while I laughed at him 







Anyone care to comment?


----------



## bostjan (Oct 16, 2017)

So, the second video - the idea is that the rocket hit a solid dome and that's what stopped it from spinning? I mean, just think about that for a second...if I was in a rocket, going 5800 km/hour, and I ran into a solid surface, what would happen? If the first answer that comes to mind is "you'd stop spinning," then any discussion that follows is going to be pure entertainment and have no other value.

On the other hand if you answer:

1. The rocket would be smashed to bits.
OR
2. The surface would be smashed to bits.
OR
3. Both the surface and the rocket would be smashed to bits.

Then we are ready to move on to the part of the discussion about "why did the rocket stop spinning?" The answer is stabilizers. There are torional stabilizers on the rocket, something I think the developers called a yo-yo, which works kind of how a ballerina can control the speed of her spin by extending her arms out or pulling them in. Deploying the stabilizer is necessary before the lower stage of the rocket is jettisoned in order to better predict where that piece will hit land, and also because the camera equipment on the rocket was supposed to catch some shots of the upper atmosphere, rather than just a blur of nonsense.

Unfortunately, though, people will see that video and exclaim "AHA - Proof that the Earth is *flat*!" Which is simply non sequitor.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 16, 2017)

I would think that if the rocket or surface of "le dome" isn't fucked from impact, then the rocket would spin wildly out of control, and smash into the surface of the Earth, making for quite a pyro display.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 16, 2017)

I love how the idea of a flat earth has somehow crawled out of the deepest recesses of humanity and has somehow made a comeback as a plausible idea, so long as you ignore all the mathematical and empirical evidence contrary to the fact. I also can't wait for phrenology or the geocentric theory to make a comeback.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 16, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I love how the idea of a flat earth has somehow crawled out of the deepest recesses of humanity and has somehow made a comeback as a plausible idea, so long as you ignore all the mathematical and empirical evidence contrary to the fact. I also can't wait for phrenology or the geocentric theory to make a comeback.


The geocentric theory is the one that we're at the center of the universe, correct? Wouldn't flat earth entail both theories, because you'd have to be geocentric in order for the earth to be flat and night/day to work the way they do.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> The geocentric theory is the one that we're at the center of the universe, correct? Wouldn't flat earth entail both theories, because you'd have to be geocentric in order for the earth to be flat and night/day to work the way they do.


I don't know if flat earth theory is also geocentric. I would prefer not to think about the minutiae of a long disproven theory. Probably because I have better things to do like worry about the fact that there are strains of tuberculosis that are essentially untreatable or that polio and measles are on the rise due to ignorant hippy soccer moms who think healing crystals are a viable alternative to vaccination.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 16, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I love how the idea of a flat earth has somehow crawled out of the deepest recesses of humanity and has somehow made a comeback as a plausible idea, so long as you ignore all the mathematical and empirical evidence contrary to the fact. I also can't wait for phrenology or the geocentric theory to make a comeback.


Yes...what is all that mathematical and empirical evidence again? Stuff that shows curvature and movement with 100%proof. Please don't throw out sticks and shadows and boats or going over the horizon as that was covered extensively since 2015.


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 16, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Yes...what is all that mathematical and empirical evidence again? Stuff that shows curvature and movement with 100%proof. Please don't throw out sticks and shadows and boats or going over the horizon as that was covered extensively since 2015.


Ok, how about you look into the foucalt pendulum and how the earth projects a round shadow onto the moon, the fact that the same constellations are not seen from every latitude, the whole concept of seasonality, axial tilt, Milankovitch cycles, Archimedes' treatise on floating bodies and spherical oceans, the foundation of spherical trigonometry and Biruni's trigonometric calculations on the curvature of the earth.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 16, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I don't know if flat earth theory is also geocentric. I would prefer not to think about the minutiae of a long disproven theory. Probably because I have better things to do like worry about the fact that there are strains of tuberculosis that are essentially untreatable or that polio and measles are on the rise due to ignorant hippy soccer moms who think healing crystals are a viable alternative to vaccination.


They are on the rise due to unvetted immigration, but the insistence on not vaccinating probably isn't helping any.


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> They are on the rise due to unvetted immigration, but the insistence on not vaccinating probably isn't helping any.


well that's part of it but there's also an alarming number of supposedly educated mothers who think they understand immunology better than people who study it or work in healthcare. It's ok, once their little brats get polio and become paralyzed they'll appreciate vaccinations.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 16, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Ok, how about you look into the foucalt pendulum and how the earth projects a round shadow onto the moon, the fact that the same constellations are not seen from every latitude, the whole concept of seasonality, axial tilt, Milankovitch cycles, Archimedes' treatise on floating bodies and spherical oceans, the foundation of spherical trigonometry and Biruni's trigonometric calculations on the curvature of the earth.


Ok, I looked into the first thing on your list- correctly spelled as The Foucault Pendulum. I do not think you want to use that on your list of proofs, it's basically a weak side show carnival trick. Sometimes it swings the wrong way, sometimes too fast, sometimes it needs a little push to get it going, lol. That doesn't prove anything on either side.


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## marcwormjim (Oct 17, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I love how the idea of a flat earth has somehow crawled out of the deepest recesses of humanity and has somehow made a comeback as a plausible idea, so long as you ignore all the mathematical and empirical evidence contrary to the fact. I also can't wait for phrenology or the geocentric theory to make a comeback.



I have nothing to debate, but didn’t I see you post a tonewood prescription in the last 48 hours?


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 17, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> I have nothing to debate, but didn’t I see you post a tonewood prescription in the last 48 hours?


they asked for a type of wood that juggernauts would work well in and I told them what misha uses and what I've used em in.


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## marcwormjim (Oct 17, 2017)

Gotcha. Live long and penis.


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## cwhitey2 (Oct 17, 2017)

I asked him about the dome as well...he explained that the dome is 'water' 

He then proceeded to show me a video of Bill Nye saying we can never leave this planet or that it's not possible. I also showed hi some flat earth maps and asked if believes them and he said yes...



Why didn't anyone comment on the Russian video  Theres a freaking black hole thinger in that vid for Pete's sake


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## bostjan (Oct 17, 2017)

cwhitey2 said:


> I asked him about the dome as well...he explained that the dome is 'water'
> 
> He then proceeded to show me a video of Bill Nye saying we can never leave this planet or that it's not possible. I also showed hi some flat earth maps and asked if believes them and he said yes...
> 
> ...



The first video you posted?! The one that was filmed from inside of an airplane and says it's from the Russian Space Station, and was filmed with a potato? Ignore the weird lights in the center for a moment, what does it look like? It's a hurricane flyby. Cool. Now look at the weird lights in the middle. Notice it looping perfectly? Notice how fake it looks? Are you asking yourself why this is even a discussion yet? 

I mean, if I were to offer proof of some conspiracy, I would at least try to make the misleading facts somewhat close to the actual facts. I guess people out there are far less observant than I give them credit. : / To me, that first video was so obviously fake that it didn't dignify a second thought.


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## cwhitey2 (Oct 17, 2017)

bostjan said:


> The first video you posted?! The one that was filmed from inside of an airplane and says it's from the Russian Space Station, and was filmed with a potato? Ignore the weird lights in the center for a moment, what does it look like? It's a hurricane flyby. Cool. Now look at the weird lights in the middle. Notice it looping perfectly? Notice how fake it looks? Are you asking yourself why this is even a discussion yet?



This is the response I expected and wanted  This is sh!t he is showing me trying to convince me as I'm literally laughing at him.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 17, 2017)

cwhitey2 said:


> This is sh!t he is showing me trying to convince me as I'm literally laughing at him.



This could actually apply to any of the topics in this thread


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## TheKindred (Oct 17, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> This could actually apply to any of the topics in this thread



not really. Some are actual documented oddities that just don't have an obvious explanation. The rest are flat earth tomfoolery.


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## bostjan (Oct 17, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> not really. Some are actual documented oddities that just don't have an obvious explanation. The rest are flat earth tomfoolery.



Say a raccoon catches mange, becomes disfigured, and dies. It then partially decomposes, and someone snaps a photo of it, and the photo goes viral with people speculating it's some sort of cryptid. It's an interesting puzzle for sure, and you are bound to get some crazy ideas from people that mix truth with honest-but-imaginative speculation.

Now say someone badly edits a video of a hurricane to make it purposely look like something crazy is happening, then titles the video to mislead people into thinking that the video is real, shot from space, and somehow proves the Earth is flat, when none of those are remotely true. How is that interesting to anyone, except maybe to a sociologist who studies memes or mass idiocy? I usually just ignore such things, and when a bunch of people start taking it seriously without paying attention to how it looks nothing like what they are describing, and looks fake as hell to boot, it honestly hurts my head.

Maybe humanity reached it's apex in the early 20th century and now we are declining into an irrational era. I hope not, we were really starting to figure somethings out.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 17, 2017)

TheKindred said:


> not really. Some are actual documented oddities that just don't have an obvious explanation. The rest are flat earth tomfoolery.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Oct 17, 2017)

If someone believe the Earth is flat they shouldn't be allowed to breed.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 18, 2017)

I see you've taken a break from defending decapitated to weigh in here with a tyrannical view. 
Globe or die!


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## marcwormjim (Oct 18, 2017)

There has to be a flat earth for you to _not _believe in, guys. _Chex mix._


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Oct 18, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I see you've taken a break from defending decapitated to weigh in here with a tyrannical view.
> Globe or die!


I posted in that thread over a month ago and I didn't even defend them.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 20, 2017)

Anybody looking at the CA fires? There's some strange theories based on the recent images/video/interviews there. I guess the thought is once the fires got going THEY took the opportunity to try out some directed energy weapons (?!) Seems like extreme evil/unlikely but some of those images are weird, like cars with wheels melting into a stream which would take 3,000 degrees and yet nearby trees un-touched.
Somebody get Smokey on the line and ask these tough questions


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 20, 2017)

check it out at about 5:39
This tree is burning from the inside out!


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 20, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> check it out at about 5:39
> This tree is burning from the inside out!



lightning actually does something similar to that.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 20, 2017)

Right. Lightning is much closer related to a directed energy weapon...but a forest fire? Is that fire emitting bolts of energy somehow? That doesn't make sense. Unless there was a lot of lightning during this event?


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 20, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Right. Lightning is much closer related to a directed energy weapon...but a forest fire? Is that fire emitting bolts of energy somehow? That doesn't make sense. Unless there was a lot of lightning during this event?


whether it was lightning, embers blowing into the perfect tree to create that or some weird microwave weapon test- I can't say. Forest fires do start from lightning bolts though..


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 21, 2017)

I don't think embers blowing can account for internal tree fires or vaporized cars & houses. Not burned out- vaporized by extreme & specific heat that often did not affect nearby trees. Weird/Scary


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## lewis (Oct 22, 2017)




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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 22, 2017)

Corey Feldman will die within the next 2-3 months of a "drug OD" because he's threatening to reveal names re: child molestation he and Haim endured as child stars.


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## lewis (Oct 23, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Corey Feldman will die within the next 2-3 months of a "drug OD" because he's threatening to reveal names re: child molestation he and Haim endured as child stars.


100% this

such an easy cover up too.
"his fame from a young age sadly meant he couldnt cope with the limelight and ended up on drugs - shame"


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## bostjan (Oct 23, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Corey Feldman will die within the next 2-3 months of a "drug OD" because he's threatening to reveal names re: child molestation he and Haim endured as child stars.


Why threaten to release names, though? Just come out with it. Or do we want to give child molesters the opportunity to leave the country and change their names?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Oct 23, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Why threaten to release names, though? Just come out with it. Or do we want to give child molesters the opportunity to leave the country and change their names?


He's been hinting that it'd affect his safety.


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## Ebony (Oct 23, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> He's been hinting that it'd affect his safety.



And probably the safety of loved ones.


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## bostjan (Oct 23, 2017)

That makes absolutely no logical sense. If anything not releasing the names, but threatening to do so puts him and his loved ones in so much more danger, potentially, than any other course of action. I guess this is just one of those things where logic really plays no role, though.


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## Ebony (Oct 23, 2017)

bostjan said:


> That makes absolutely no logical sense. If anything not releasing the names, but threatening to do so puts him and his loved ones in so much more danger, potentially, than any other course of action.



Maybe he thinks the publicity will shield him, who knows.


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## lewis (Oct 24, 2017)

i agree with the thinking that publicly threatening too but never doing it, puts himself at more danger imo.

if he went public with all this and then lo and behold dies mysteriously it would raise too many questions and suspicion. They (whoever they are) would not be able to touch him.

All the while their names are secret he can get taken out anytime.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 24, 2017)

lewis said:


> if he went public with all this and then lo and behold dies mysteriously it would raise too many questions and suspicion. They (whoever they are) would not be able to touch him.



This is so far off base. If the above scenario happened and the official story was accident, 99% of sheeple would buy it unquestioned....and would also attack people as "tin foil hatters" if they suggested otherwise. One big conspiracy theory is the modern use of the word conspiracy being equal to "crazy" ...and there was a huge anti-conspiracy campaign that was launched decades ago and was largely successful. 

Don't believe it? It worked! Conspiracy-Inception


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## bostjan (Oct 25, 2017)

crankyrayhanky said:


> This is so far off base. If the above scenario happened and the official story was accident, 99% of sheeple would buy it unquestioned....and would also attack people as "tin foil hatters" if they suggested otherwise. One big conspiracy theory is the modern use of the word conspiracy being equal to "crazy" ...and there was a huge anti-conspiracy campaign that was launched decades ago and was largely successful.
> 
> Don't believe it? It worked! Conspiracy-Inception



"Conspiracy: in modern usage, 'conspiracy' is equated to 'crazy'" muses the guy who just used the word "sheeple."

I get what you are saying, though. We are fed bullshit every day and told it's chocolate cake, which is just more bullshit. But just because some things are bullshit doesn't mean everything is bullshit. The key is in developing your own ability to discern bullshit, and to discern merit, and to form your own opinions based on the information filtered through that discerned perception. It's not really a skill that the general public has ever possessed.  People find it convenient to believe what they are told, as it takes less work to do so. When someone with too much time on his hands comes along and takes the podium to point out the bullshit in popular public opinion, that person either becomes a hero or is dismissed as a lunatic. That's why presentation is so important, and using words like "sheeple" is so self-defeating.

Back to the topic of Corey Feldman, and this being a music forum, has anyone seen this old video?



I actually really dug his performance, even though I absolutely detested the song. I actually appreciated the Doctor Ice cameo (he was a backup dancer for Whoodini [_The Freaks Come Out at Night_]). To put it into perspective, I saw this after everybody had already told me how bad it was, so I halfway expected it to be like Feldman reaching through the screen and poking my eyes.

And back to the topic of sexual harassment, now George HW Bush is apologizing for getting inappropriate with an actress from "Turn: Washington's Spies": http://www.newsweek.com/george-hw-bush-apologizes-after-sex-assault-allegation-692368

All I can think to say is WTF?!


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 25, 2017)

sheep follow the herd
sheeple= _People find it convenient to believe what they are told, as it takes less work to do so.
_
This is the same thing, no?
Plus, I think it is more than "less work". This implies that people who work harder can make their own independent actions, which is simplifying the issue. There is a mass group control system (tv, film, media, etc) that is at work and very powerful- it pushes people into this herd.


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## bostjan (Oct 25, 2017)

Sure there is, but no one forces you to turn on the tv, go see a film, subscribe to mass media outlets, etc. Why do people need to be entertained and not entertain themselves? It's a matter of convenience. Offer everyone a convenience at a low cost, and let them choose to take it in, at their own convenience, and it sells the point better. But it's not like it all willfully intended to be that way, not that it matters as much how it got to be the way it is.

The thing is, if the mass media gets caught in too many lies, it stops being authoritative, so there is a corrective feedback loop in place, but the lazier people get about looking shit up from independent sources or thinking critically about what they are told, the more the mass media can get away with presenting.

You want to question everything, that's great, but then question _everything_. Too many conspiracy guys on the internet don't apply anywhere near the same level of scrutiny toward the stuff they see on conspiracy sites.

My point about using the buzzword "sheeple:" the use of any word says things on multiple levels. Use a plain word, and people understand you. Use a jargon word, and exclude casual audiences whilst hinting to interested audiences that you know what you are talking about. Use a buzzword and you equate yourself to other speakers employing the same buzz. Sometimes it's basically unavoidable - if you are talking about global climate change, you have to use either "climate change" or "global warming," etc., they are all buzz words. (Ironic example, though, as it started out as a fringe theory and now that it's mainstream, the fringe theory is that it's acceptance into mainstream is a conspiracy.)

So yeah, using the word "sheeple," is not clever (the word has been around since 1945), it merely identifies the speaker as someone whom glams onto buzz words commonly used by the conspiracy theory community. It's ironic because use of the word is a symptom of herd mentality, the very thing that the word was originally used to ridicule.


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## bostjan (Oct 25, 2017)

Sure there is, but no one forces you to turn on the tv, go see a film, subscribe to mass media outlets, etc. Why do people need to be entertained and not entertain themselves? It's a matter of convenience. Offer everyone a convenience at a low cost, and let them choose to take it in, at their own convenience, and it sells the point better. But it's not like it all willfully intended to be that way, not that it matters as much how it got to be the way it is.

The thing is, if the mass media gets caught in too many lies, it stops being authoritative, so there is a corrective feedback loop in place, but the lazier people get about looking shit up from independent sources or thinking critically about what they are told, the more the mass media can get away with presenting.

You want to question everything, that's great, but then question _everything_. Too many conspiracy guys on the internet don't apply anywhere near the same level of scrutiny toward the stuff they see on conspiracy sites.

My point about using the buzzword "sheeple:" the use of any word says things on multiple levels. Use a plain word, and people understand you. Use a jargon word, and exclude casual audiences whilst hinting to interested audiences that you know what you are talking about. Use a buzzword and you equate yourself to other speakers employing the same buzz. Sometimes it's basically unavoidable - if you are talking about global climate change, you have to use either "climate change" or "global warming," etc., they are all buzz words. (Ironic example, though, as it started out as a fringe theory and now that it's mainstream, the fringe theory is that it's acceptance into mainstream is a conspiracy.)

So yeah, using the word "sheeple," is not clever (the word has been around since 1945), it merely identifies the speaker as someone whom glams onto buzz words commonly used by the conspiracy theory community. It's ironic because use of the word is a symptom of herd mentality, the very thing that the word was originally used to ridicule.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 25, 2017)

Opinion invalidated due to Corey Music love^


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## wakjob (Oct 28, 2017)

Well the world is getting weirder by the day it seems.

Everyone knows in their "feels" that something is very wrong with the world and it's accelerating, but no one can't articulate into words exactly what it is...

so hence forth the fringe ideology.

We're grasping at straws trying to make sense of it all.


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## Ebony (Oct 28, 2017)

wakjob said:


> Everyone knows in their "feels" that something is very wrong with the world and it's accelerating, but no one can't articulate into words exactly what it is...



I think what you describe translates into how the "common people" now has access to truths long hidden by force, such as the truth that the world is "dog-eat-dog". The emotional toll of this knowledge has found its way into our social interactions, art, music and literature. Not because it hasn't always been there, which it most definitely has, but because we now understand how it directly contradicts our wishes to make the world a "better place". It is one of the great complexities/paradoxes of the human condition, to understand the premises of existence and still be able to enjoy it.

Over-population is becoming the physical heart of the situation, signifying not only our success but also our failure and displaying to everyone how this world by design is, to put it bluntly, a hellhole endured by the many and enjoyed by the few.


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## crankyrayhanky (Oct 28, 2017)




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## Leviathus (Nov 3, 2017)

So ya'll up on this Tom DeLonge alien stuff? It seems like bullshit but the wikileaks stuff is weird.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Nov 3, 2017)

Not something I particular subscribe to or anything, though it is interesting: Chris Cornell and Chester Bennington were offed because they were going to disclose info about a pedophile ring in the entertainment industry.


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## auxioluck (Nov 30, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I love how the idea of a flat earth has somehow crawled out of the deepest recesses of humanity and has somehow made a comeback as a plausible idea, so long as you ignore all the mathematical and empirical evidence contrary to the fact. I also can't wait for phrenology or the geocentric theory to make a comeback.



I actually saw a lady's profile on Twitter 2 months ago that proudly said "Geocentrist". So yeah, it's coming back too. And go figure, it's mostly (if not all) insane far-right religious folks.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Nov 30, 2017)

auxioluck said:


> I actually saw a lady's profile on Twitter 2 months ago that proudly said "Geocentrist". So yeah, it's coming back too. And go figure, it's mostly (if not all) insane far-right religious folks.


Uh, most of the goofy flat earthers I know are too dumb to have any meaningful political views of any sort, and are anything but religious.


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## marcwormjim (Dec 1, 2017)

I think he's suggesting that they speak/act in accordance with beliefs rationalized via fallacious or otherwise unreasonable means, and congregate under the additional belief that strength in numbers within an echochamber somehow equates to inconvenient facts to the contrary concerning the objectively observable universe being changed or omitted according to the whims of the vocal minority. Somehow or another, he's qualifying the compulsive and ritualistic denial of the obvious so that fantasy may be preserved as "religious" behavior.

Edit: Posted in the wrong ss.org tonewood thread.


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## Leviathus (Dec 1, 2017)

Holy shit cpt. syllables....


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## auxioluck (Dec 1, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Uh, most of the goofy flat earthers I know are too dumb to have any meaningful political views of any sort, and are anything but religious.



I'm lucky enough to not know any in person (Geocentrists or flat Earthers), but I'm just speaking from the ones I've seen online. Almost every one of them has used the Bible to justify their belief in Geocentrism. Not talking about flat Earthers.


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## crankyrayhanky (Dec 1, 2017)

Crazy talk!


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 29, 2018)

http://www.sci-news.com/biology/yeti-genetically-identical-asian-bears-05486.html
yetis are apparently just bears.


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## lurè (Jan 29, 2018)

just hipster bears


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jan 29, 2018)

lurè said:


> just hipster bears


Goddamn hipsters.


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## jwade (Mar 5, 2018)

So C3P0 has a fucking antenna now.


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## bostjan (Mar 6, 2018)

I don't get the Mandela Effect. I never heard news Nelson Mandela died before 2013, I do remember my C3PO toys having a silver leg, I remember Kazaam starring Shaq and not Sinbad, etc. The only thing I will say is that _The Berenstain Bears_ was something every kid in second grade pronounced incorrectly.


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Mar 6, 2018)

Yeah, I think it just elaborates just how easily we forget little details. I had to look it up and everything mentioned didn't make me feel like I was in a twilight zone or anything. I knew froot loops was with two o's. People hear and remember things wrongly all the time.


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 6, 2018)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Yeah, I think it just elaborates just how easily we forget little details. I had to look it up and everything mentioned didn't make me feel like I was in a twilight zone or anything. I knew froot loops was with two o's. People hear and remember things wrongly all the time.



That's why in the scientific world, eye witness testimony for an account/description is basically useless. Your brain will change your memory...to say, something that you may have encountered in the past and the 2 memories get blurred together.

Take bigfoot for example....1000's of eyewitness testimony, yet no hard _scientific _proof.

I'm by no means a scientist, but that what I have heard on the interwebz


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## jwade (Mar 6, 2018)

See, I remember C3P0s red arm, but not the silver leg, and definitely never noticed an antenna. I've seen the original trilogy probably 100-200 times, at least. I was obsessed with it when I was a kid, and literally watched it every weekend until I was probably 19-20. 

A large majority of the Mandela effect things are pretty easily explained away via lack of specific knowledge that people feel amazed by when they find out about it online. For example, tree kangaroos. Never heard of them until recently, but my wife says she used to go see them at the zoo. 

But the Star Wars stuff, there are quite a few things that really confuse me because I have seen the movies so many times, and spent so much of my childhood playing with the toys, and drawing the characters, and collecting the comics...

I dunno.


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## crankyrayhanky (Mar 6, 2018)

Funny how there's a whole lot of people trying to logically devalue anything X-Files here... 
Mandela Effect is easy to brush off at first glance, but look deeper and, it appears to me, to be a lot more compelling than just a few people misremembering


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 6, 2018)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Funny how there's a whole lot of people trying to logically devalue anything X-Files here...
> Mandela Effect is easy to brush off at first glance, but look deeper and, it appears to me, to be a lot more compelling than just a few people misremembering



Hey buddy, everything in the x-files is based off of something that actually happened _ in real life _


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## jwade (Mar 6, 2018)

There's also a pretty significant amount of very odd things related to movies in general, like drastically different endings or lines that seem like everyone alive remembers differently. It's an interesting topic.


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## bostjan (Mar 6, 2018)

It's all memes. "Luke, I am your father!" It's not the line in the movie, but it's close enough. One person misquotes the line to a dozen of his friends, then a majority of those friends start misquoting the line to their friends and on and on it goes until the fake line is remembered better than the real one, but if you were alive in the eighties, and you think back for a minute, you probably remember the nerd who was always trying to correct people. "No, he doesn't say 'Luke,' dude, go back and watch the movie!" to which everyone flippantly says "meh, close enough...nerd!"

Meme proliferation is very analogous to prion proliferation in biology. The closer the meme line is to the real line, or, more accurately, the better it represents the function of the real line, the better it will catch on. If it happens to be shorter or otherwise easier to recall than the actual line, out of context, then the meme line will proliferate better than the actual line and you end up with the Mandela Effect years later.


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## jwade (Mar 6, 2018)

The "No, I am your father!" line is a great example of circumstantial editing. It's nearly impossible to say that line the way it was written without it feeling incredibly forced. It just makes sense that people attempting to use the line in a social setting wouldn't realize they're making a change, but by saying "Luke" at the start, they're simply framing the subject of the line without having to explain it.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 6, 2018)

bostjan said:


> It's all memes. "Luke, I am your father!" It's not the line in the movie, but it's close enough. One person misquotes the line to a dozen of his friends, then a majority of those friends start misquoting the line to their friends and on and on it goes until the fake line is remembered better than the real one, but if you were alive in the eighties, and you think back for a minute, you probably remember the nerd who was always trying to correct people. "No, he doesn't say 'Luke,' dude, go back and watch the movie!" to which everyone flippantly says "meh, close enough...nerd!"
> 
> Meme proliferation is very analogous to prion proliferation in biology. The closer the meme line is to the real line, or, more accurately, the better it represents the function of the real line, the better it will catch on. If it happens to be shorter or otherwise easier to recall than the actual line, out of context, then the meme line will proliferate better than the actual line and you end up with the Mandela Effect years later.


I imagine a drunk John Carpenter trying to think of shit to fluff up the TV version of Halloween that can be used in Halloween II, and going, "Fuck it... Let's just Darth Vader and Luke Michael and Laurie, except they are brother and sister."

Oh wait, that's no longer "canon" thanks to Carpenter and this ridiculously stupid new cash grab.


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## crankyrayhanky (Mar 6, 2018)

cwhitey2 said:


> Hey buddy, everything in the x-files is based off of something that actually happened _ in real life _


I can't believe I have to spell this out, but my use of the phrase X Files is meant to describe strange happenings...not the actual show



bostjan said:


> It's all memes. "Luke, I am your father!" It's not the line in the movie, but it's close enough. One person misquotes the line to a dozen of his friends, then a majority of those friends start misquoting the line to their friends and on and on it goes until the fake line is remembered better than the real one


I guess the one person who is misquoting includes James Earl Jones. There's interviews where people excitedly ask him to say the line, as it is one of the most historic lines in motion pictures....and it is really bizarre that he is saying it wrong too?!....oddly enough, another JEJ flick the _Field of Dreams_ "Build it..." line is also changed, including the actual tone of the whisper voice


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 6, 2018)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I can't believe I have to spell this out, but my use of the phrase X Files is meant to describe strange happenings...not the actual show
> 
> 
> I guess the one person who is misquoting includes James Earl Jones. There's interviews where people excitedly ask him to say the line, as it is one of the most historic lines in motion pictures....and it is really bizarre that he is saying it wrong too?!....oddly enough, another JEJ flick the _Field of Dreams_ "Build it..." line is also changed, including the actual tone of the whisper voice



Well shit.

Anyways I love the show hahaha


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## crankyrayhanky (Mar 6, 2018)

cwhitey2 said:


> Well shit.
> 
> Anyways I love the show hahaha


Dude I do too! Are the new ones any good? Not sure if Fox Scully Smoking Man holds up


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## StevenC (Mar 6, 2018)

bostjan said:


> Meme proliferation is very analogous to prion proliferation in biology


It's almost like a biologist coined the term meme


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 6, 2018)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Dude I do too! Are the new ones any good? Not sure if Fox Scully Smoking Man holds up



I honestly haven't watched them...I feel like a horrible fan. I have watched just about every episode 2-3 times.


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## Demiurge (Mar 6, 2018)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Dude I do too! Are the new ones any good? Not sure if Fox Scully Smoking Man holds up



This season is uneven but better than the last. Appropriately enough with the current conversation, there was an episode about the Mandela Effect a few weeks ago that was pretty funny.


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Sep 13, 2018)

What about that conspiracy theory where George Bush placed banana peels on every floor of the Trade Center towers so people would slip out the windows?


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## DudeManBrother (Sep 13, 2018)

I like the conspiracy that Marcworm Jim committed suicide after his 3rd bad experience with Strandberg guitars and his unrestful ghost posts here on SSO under the name of a broadway musical composer.


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Sep 13, 2018)

How is that a conspiracy?


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## DudeManBrother (Sep 14, 2018)

He’s conspiring to steal Ola’s penis cloth; as he believes that only Ola’s urine soaked cloth will provide enough lubricant to pull up a major 4th with the trem bar. He used the Broadway musician as a perfect alibi. How could he have stolen the penis cloth? He was writing a tune for “My Two Dads the Musical” when the crime was committed. Who else would want that cloth? Obviously Marc would, but he’s dead. We all saw his account get buried...or did it?


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## Steinmetzify (Sep 29, 2018)

bostjan said:


> I don't get the Mandela Effect. I never heard news Nelson Mandela died before 2013, I do remember my C3PO toys having a silver leg, I remember Kazaam starring Shaq and not Sinbad, etc. The only thing I will say is that _The Berenstain Bears_ was something every kid in second grade pronounced incorrectly.



Late to this, but drinking and surfing and forgot about this thread.

Dude, my last name starts with 'Stein'

I read voraciously from age 2; my mom worked a lot as a single parent and taught me to read at a young age, so I could entertain myself and read to my brother. I remember thinking it was neat that their name was partly like mine....I never would have thought that if the last name had been 'Berenstain'. 

Berenstein Bears was ALWAYS 'stein' until someone told me it wasn't. Went and looked it up and they're saying it was always like that. 

Thank fuck there are pics of old books online spelled the way I thought it should be, otherwise I'd have honestly thought I was crazy..

Other one that got me was the Anne Rice shit.....I've read the entire Vampire series way more than once, seen that movie like 5-6 times and I always thought it was 'Interview With A Vampire'...and I can't find that ANYWHERE. It's always posted as Interview With The Vampire.

Shit wigs me out.


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## Randy (Sep 29, 2018)

Who ever said Humpty Dumpty was an egg?


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## Bobro (Sep 30, 2018)

Randy said:


> Who ever said Humpty Dumpty was an egg?



I've read that Humpty Dumpty originated as a satirical political rhyme, HD being a portly politician who was in some scandal and politically ruined, and the king was on his side but all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again. So, actually an appropriate subject in a conspiracy theory thread.


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## Demiurge (Sep 30, 2018)

Humpty Dumpty may have been an ally to the king, but he knew too much and needed to be silenced. Why else would horses be sent to perform first aid? They're rarely trained for CPR!


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 30, 2018)

why was humpty dumpty sitting on a great wall? he was obviously framed to make his fall look like an accident/suicide


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 30, 2018)

It's obvious that Humpty Dumpty is a metaphor for someone who crossed the Clinton's.


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## MFB (Sep 30, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> It's obvious that Humpty Dumpty is a metaphor for someone who crossed the Clinton's.



Humpty wouldn't have fallen off that wall if Trump hadn't built it

Game over, Trumpists.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 30, 2018)

MFB said:


> Humpty wouldn't have fallen off that wall if Trump hadn't built it
> 
> Game over, Trumpists.


Trump can't possibly continue on as president after that bombshell realization.


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## MFB (Sep 30, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Trump can't possibly continue on as president after that bombshell realization.





Spaced Out Ace said:


> continue on as president after that bombshell





Spaced Out Ace said:


> that bombshell realization.





Spaced Out Ace said:


> bombshell





Spaced Out Ace said:


> shell


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## Leviathus (Mar 27, 2019)

Idk man, this might be the best squatch vid i've seen.


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## Demiurge (Mar 27, 2019)

^Well, I'm convinced... of what I don't know.

Cryptozoology is my least favorite kind of paranormal. So there might be animals out there that we haven't been able to study yet. It smacks of mankind's hubris. Sasquatch doesn't want to be somebody's rug or a batch of jerky or have shampoo shot into their eyes- sounds smart too me.


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## Leviathus (Sep 13, 2019)

"CHINA HAS BEEN DEVELOPING HUMAN-ANIMAL CHIMERAS!"






bump


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## efiltsohg (Sep 13, 2019)

Long read on DMT, aliens and demons that may be of interest to the handful of people that actually follow this thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1096758520467333120.html

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1097334574538018816.html


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## lewis (Sep 18, 2019)

Given recently was the anniversary of 9/11,

I just got done watching this 3 parter - 



it is THE documentary to watch regards to trying to understand what happened on 9/11, and more importantly how the official report seems bogus

For anyone who does believe the official report, please watch this first before condemning and judging "crazy theorists" for asking these same questions within this documentary.

The whole film is arranged in such an incredibly but frankly shocking way, its engrossing viewing.

and before anyone throws things my way, just know im not a crazy tinfoil hat whack job, im simply wanting answers to questions posed in this documentary - so I hardly view that as justification to be condemned as a "weirdo" like many theorists in my position are labelled

(at least Im not saying the planes were Holograms)


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 18, 2019)

The Illuminati do not want me watching that video.


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## DudeManBrother (Sep 19, 2019)




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## Rosal76 (May 29, 2020)

So..., for the conspiracy fans. I just found out about this story last night and found it quite interesting. I cannot go into great, great detail about the story and will try to simplify it as best as I can. A Navy ship called the U.S.S. Cyclops was declared lost at sea in 1918. No trace of it and it's crew/passengers has ever been found.

Possible causes for disappearances:

Natural causes: Storms, overloaded cargo, engine trouble, sunk by enemies at sea (WW1) and structural damage caused by it's corrosive cargo might have sunk her.

Conspiracy causes: Investigations show that the captain of the ship was born German and some have theorized that he and some of his crew were German sympathizers (WW1) who sailed the ship back to Germany.

Weird causes: Some have theorized the ship was lost in the Bermuda triangle.

Cursed ship? The Cyclops had 3 sister ships that also had bad luck. 1 badly damaged from combat damage she had to be scuttled and the other 2 were also lost by sea, natural or by the Bermuda triangle.

The U.S.S. Cyclops below.


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## Spaced Out Ace (May 29, 2020)

Very intriguing. Have any videos discussing the ship?


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## Rosal76 (May 29, 2020)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Very intriguing. Have any videos discussing the ship?



I could not find any videos describing the ship itself in great detail, like it's history and whatnot. Just on the disappearing aspect of it. When they (Youtube videos) do mention the ship, it's very basic info, like the date it was built, crew and passenger count, what it carried and when it disappeared. IMHO, the disappearance of the U.S.S. Cyclops is intriguing enough for individuals who are already into that kind of stuff but not at the level of "Bigfoot and Lock Ness monster" status. The Youtube video below is pretty cool but the cartoon pictures probably doesn't help the story to be serious. LOL.


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## c7spheres (May 29, 2020)

I saw a theory on the Bermuda Triangle that all those ships sick there because;
1. It's one of the busiest areas for ships in the world and 
2. There's some thermal vents under there that can unexpectedly release gasses and those bubbles come up and make the ship sink. 
3. I like the alien theory best though. The logical way is just so boring.


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## Rosal76 (Jun 11, 2020)

O.K. I just found out about this story last night and thought it's interesting and thought some of you may get a kick out of it. Again, I will try to simplify the story as best as I can.

The Exorcist (1973) movie and it's curse.

For some of you who may not know, the movie is theorized to be cursed. Accidents, injuries on the set, sets burning down, death of actors, relatives of actors, and crew happened, and other plain weird things happened during filming and after the movie's release. Not everyone believes the curse. Actor, Max Von Sydow's (who was in the film) brother died when filming (he (brother) wasn't in the film), states that when a movie takes 9 months to film, unfortunate but natural things are going to happen.

Actor who would later become a killer in real life. This is the story I found out last night.

Paul Bateson, who appeared in the movie, was arrested in 1979 for the murder of Addison Verrill. Police have theorized that Paul may have killed 6 other people but that has never been proven. The 6 victims were found but they could not connect them to Paul. Anyways, Paul spent 24 years in prison and died in 2012.

Another Exorcist curse??? Probably not but considering the huge amount of bad luck people connected to the movie seem to have, it does have a weird appeal to it.

Paul Bateson as he appears in The Exorcist (1973).





Paul when he got arrested in 1979.





Newspaper clipping showcasing Paul's murder.


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## narad (Jun 11, 2020)

So an actor's brother dies and one of the other actors (bit part) becomes a murderer, and that makes the movie cursed? That's a really low bar. I feel like if it was the same cast but the move was "Love Boat", no one would have said anything, but it's "The Exorcist", so gotta try hard.


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## Merrekof (Jun 11, 2020)

I just saw this thread, I'm a rational thinker and usually the first to try to debunk theories. Bigfoot, Bermuda triangle, aliens,..I don't buy it. Except for 9/11, the official explanation makes no sense at all.


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## Rosal76 (Jun 11, 2020)

narad said:


> So an actor's brother dies and one of the other actors (bit part) becomes a murderer, and that makes the movie cursed? That's a really low bar. I feel like if it was the same cast but the move was "Love Boat", no one would have said anything, but it's "The Exorcist", so gotta try hard.







Rosal76 said:


> Another Exorcist curse??? Probably not but considering the huge amount of bad luck people connected to the movie seem to have, it does have a weird appeal to it.





Rosal76 said:


> Another Exorcist curse??? >>>>>Probably not<<<<<


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## Merrekof (Jun 11, 2020)

c7spheres said:


> I saw a theory on the Bermuda Triangle that all those ships sick there because;
> 1. It's one of the busiest areas for ships in the world and
> 2. There's some thermal vents under there that can unexpectedly release gasses and those bubbles come up and make the ship sink.
> 3. I like the alien theory best though. The logical way is just so boring.


There is no unusual amount of ships sunk in the Bermuda triangle. Shipping companies and insurance companies don't even consider this a hazardous area. The first book about the Bermuda triangle had a list of a bunch of missing ships. Most of those ships were either late or arrived at the wrong port, thus listed as missing.


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## c7spheres (Jun 11, 2020)

Merrekof said:


> There is no unusual amount of ships sunk in the Bermuda triangle. Shipping companies and insurance companies don't even consider this a hazardous area. The first book about the Bermuda triangle had a list of a bunch of missing ships. Most of those ships were either late or arrived at the wrong port, thus listed as missing.


It's aliens man! When you gonna wake up and see the man is trying to keep us down!


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## CrushingAnvil (Jun 11, 2020)

Anyone remember those recordings of Big Foot/Yeti chatter? I take the whole thing with a grain of salt but the idea that Gigantopitheci survived in enclaves deep in places like Appalachia and the Rockies is really cool/mysterious.


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## lewis (Jun 25, 2020)

Merrekof said:


> I just saw this thread, I'm a rational thinker and usually the first to try to debunk theories. Bigfoot, Bermuda triangle, aliens,..I don't buy it. Except for 9/11, the official explanation makes no sense at all.


If you have got the time, watch the 3 parter documentary on 9/11 i posted further up

its unbelievable and so far its THE best one hands down.
Ive seen every documentary made so far on this event too


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## Merrekof (Jun 26, 2020)

lewis said:


> If you have got the time, watch the 3 parter documentary on 9/11 i posted further up
> 
> its unbelievable and so far its THE best one hands down.
> Ive seen every documentary made so far on this event too


Well okay, I got to watch about 15 mins of it. Haven't had time to see the rest. 
I'm not a historian but..I really don't think Pearl Harbor was a setup. The US was nowhere near the military superpower it is today and if they hadn't had a lot of luck on their side like they did, the entire (or a enormous chunk of the) US pacific fleet would've been sunk and Japan would have had no more resistance in the Pacific. Also, looking at further events like the Marshall islands battle or the battle of Midway, this would also imply that Japan was in on it too and that they would willingly sacrifice 4 aircraft carriers, several battleships and destroyers. Plus an inevitable defeat and two A-bombs.. idk man 

And about "they knew the Japs were gonna attack Pearl Harbor".
Yeah, they had reports that suggested that, along with reports about attacks on Midway, Guam, the Philippines, San Francisco,.... when you are in the middle of it, the trick is to know wich report to follow and wich to ignore. Admiral Kimmel at Pearl Harbor made a wrong judgement on reports and got demoted for it. His successor Nimitz followed his gut feeling and listened to an officer who "had a hunch" that Midway was about to get attacked. Because of that AND a lot of luck they could surprise the Japanese fleet at Midway and destroy it.


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## lewis (Jun 26, 2020)

Merrekof said:


> Well okay, I got to watch about 15 mins of it. Haven't had time to see the rest.
> I'm not a historian but..I really don't think Pearl Harbor was a setup. The US was nowhere near the military superpower it is today and if they hadn't had a lot of luck on their side like they did, the entire (or a enormous chunk of the) US pacific fleet would've been sunk and Japan would have had no more resistance in the Pacific. Also, looking at further events like the Marshall islands battle or the battle of Midway, this would also imply that Japan was in on it too and that they would willingly sacrifice 4 aircraft carriers, several battleships and destroyers. Plus an inevitable defeat and two A-bombs.. idk man
> 
> And about "they knew the Japs were gonna attack Pearl Harbor".
> Yeah, they had reports that suggested that, along with reports about attacks on Midway, Guam, the Philippines, San Francisco,.... when you are in the middle of it, the trick is to know wich report to follow and wich to ignore. Admiral Kimmel at Pearl Harbor made a wrong judgement on reports and got demoted for it. His successor Nimitz followed his gut feeling and listened to an officer who "had a hunch" that Midway was about to get attacked. Because of that AND a lot of luck they could surprise the Japanese fleet at Midway and destroy it.



I ignored that. Im only interested about 9/11 as it happened in my life time


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## USMarine75 (Jun 26, 2020)

lewis said:


> Given recently was the anniversary of 9/11,
> 
> I just got done watching this 3 parter -
> 
> ...




Gross.


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## lewis (Jun 26, 2020)

USMarine75 said:


> Gross.


?

Asking some questions that currently have been un-answered and pointing out mistakes in the answers we did get - isn't gross dude.


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## USMarine75 (Jun 26, 2020)

lewis said:


> ?
> 
> Asking some questions that currently have been un-answered and pointing out mistakes in the answers we did get - isn't gross dude.



You realize the whole start of this garbage was "Loose Change", a movie that was intentionally made as a student project that was intentionally a devil's advocate argument that neither creator believed. Then the one guy (Dylan?) realized he could monetize it and went full-blown Ancient Aliens with it. Suggesting 9/11 was an "inside job" or the work of the Dancing Jews is ludicrous and insulting to everyone that died, works (or worked) in the IC, or military/Law Enforcement.

You really really really think that not one Congressperson, IC member, or Executive Branch employee has come forward with "the truth" or "evidence" yet there is validity in this garbage? Where is the Snowden of 9/11?

I'm not watching that vid I'm already exhausted mentally from those PragerU BS vids... but if this video is not about "Dancing Jews" and "Blow it" and other "inside job" BS then I absolutely apologize. If you want to talk about Judith Miller and her circular reporting (how it was given to her 2nd hand from VP Cheney) and how she didn't vet sources or get a 2nd source... well then we could talk. These are facts on record. Or how SecState Powell was used to parade yellowcake to the UN and American people... again... facts (see below). Hell, I was one of the first 35 Marines to land in Doha/Kuwait/Iraq for OIF/OEF... when I took off we were going to Afghanistan but got rerouted. We landed and were like wtf are we doing here lol. My OIC didn't even know why were there until we got our change of orders. 

But the idea that 9/11 was anything other than 19 asshats driving planes into buildings is just gross and uninformed.


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## lewis (Jun 26, 2020)

USMarine75 said:


> You realize the whole start of this garbage was "Loose Change", a movie that was intentionally made as a student project that was intentionally a devil's advocate argument that neither creator believed. Then the one guy (Dylan?) realized he could monetize it and went full-blown Ancient Aliens with it. Suggesting 9/11 was an "inside job" or the work of the Dancing Jews is ludicrous and insulting to everyone that died, works (or worked) in the IC, or military/Law Enforcement.
> 
> You really really really think that not one Congressperson, IC member, or Executive Branch employee has come forward with "the truth" or "evidence" yet there is validity in this garbage? Where is the Snowden of 9/11?
> 
> ...



I don't feel comfortable debating anything with you dude because I respect the forces too much.
So let's just end it there


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## wheresthefbomb (Jul 5, 2020)

I had a dream last night that two sasquatches came up on my outhouse while I was dropping a deuce. One was younger and brown haired and one was old and silver-grey. Needless to say, today's morning constitutional was taken with a little more caution than usual.


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## Yonko (Aug 12, 2020)

This will be an odd first post, but here goes... In Ohio they call Sasquatch/Bigfoot a "Grassman". I think it's the same thing, I'm not sure? Anyway, one of them was watching me through the bedroom window at my grandpa's farm. It also turned the door handle immediately after I locked it. It's the only time in my life when I was so scared, I couldn't move.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Aug 12, 2020)

Yonko said:


> This will be an odd first post, but here goes... In Ohio they call Sasquatch/Bigfoot a "Grassman". I think it's the same thing, I'm not sure? Anyway, one of them was watching me through the bedroom window at my grandpa's farm. It also turned the door handle immediately after I locked it. It's the only time in my life when I was so scared, I couldn't move.



that is creepy... how old were you? was your grandpa and family aware of them? if so, curious of other encounters.

read somewhere that there are several hundred names for bigfoot...seems nearly ever native american tribe has one not to mention lots of other cultures and people's around the globe.


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## Seybsnilksz (Mar 29, 2021)

I weighed myself today and I was 66.6kg (with lunch). This happens at the same time as new volcano activity erupts in Iceland. Coincidence? I think not.


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## narad (Mar 29, 2021)

Seybsnilksz said:


> I weighed myself today and I was 66.6kg (with lunch). This happens at the same time as new volcano activity erupts in Iceland. Coincidence? I think not.



When I was in the hospital for serious surgery last fall, my room number was 666. I guess that flies in asian cultures, but definitely didn't tell my mom until after the surgery.


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