# The truth about the Caparison ebay deal.



## The Truth (Apr 10, 2011)

This is in response to multiple sites where the OP of the Public Service Announcement thread has attempted to lie about our transaction. On this particular site the thread is locked and is http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/153665-public-service-announcement.html

I am Brookside_Bopper1211 and I am here to defend myself. 
First allow me to say that I love guitars, and admire guitarists. I haven't got the talent to play but I am in the position that I see a fair amount of guitars and have grown quite fond of 2 or 3 of them. This is the story of one such guitar. The Caparison Angelus HGS with a pro trans black finish. We all know Caparison guitars are expensive. None of my clientele does. Therefore I must resort to selling this lovely piece of Japanese artwork on ebay. Not a fan. I have been a member since '04 and you see how many transactions I have done. Unfortunately not all transactions go smoothly but in my business you learn to take the good with the bad. With that in mind I listed the guitar one Saturday afternoon. Here are the facts accompanied by emails to prove them. I used print screen and pasted it in paint to blot out some account numbers and stuff. I demand satisfaction and so I shall have it. Here we go. (thanks for letting me use your photobucket account B.E.)

1. I listed a Caparison guitar for sale on Ebay for $2000.00 obo and made it for Local Pickup Only as stated in the shipping details and the description.







2. The original poster of this thread (henceforth referred to as 'Mr. OP') wants his dream guitar so badly he doesn't notice the auction is for pick up only.










(i think i cut out the part where he tried to go around ebay in that last one, but he outed himself on that one in another post.)

3. I foolishly agree to ship said guitar as long as Mr. OP "Pays everything through Paypal and has a verified address" He bought the guitar through paypal. He had a verified address. He DID NOT pay for shipping through PayPal. I went to ship the guitar as soon as I saw it was purchased, taking his enclosed phone number with me to inform him of the costs to ship. I got a quote to ship to him in Florida, and to insure the guitar for $3000.00, which isn't even the price for a new one. I don't care if he payed $1500.00, that doesn't make the guitar worth any less. 






4. This part I have no proof of, but this is how it went down. After I got the quote for the UPS shipping/insurance I gave him a call to inform him of the cost. I had planned to have him send the funds through Paypal to cover it, and then I would pay for the shipping on the spot in cash once I verified shipping costs were paid. He asked to speak to the UPS person saying he was going to pay with a credit card. Again, I foolishly allowed it and then I overhear the UPS 'lady' (he called her a man in one post) start changing the insurance. Believe it or not it took me this long to get uncomfortable enough to cancel this transaction

5. As soon as I cancel the transaction and begin to explain to Mr. OP why I did not want to continue he kind of goes off on me, not yelling mind you, but being very bossy and demanding. I explained to him I would refund his money within the hour (it really only took about 15 minutes to refund through paypal as my store is close to the UPS store) and that I was sorry that we couldn't do business. I even wished him luck on finding another Caparison. There was no "Freaking" or "Flipping" or "Flying" or anything of the sort. I am a business man, not a child throwing a tantrum when I don't get my way.

6. Here are a couple of stills showing his paypal purchase of the guitar, and the refund of that purchase on the same day. 
The Purchase





The Refund






7. I return to my shop, make happen the aforementioned refund, and then am hit with a barrage of emails and even a huge text message that I'm too lazy to type here that he left on my cell. Threats of legal action, un-received item reports, and negative feedback were all subjects.





There was even some begging at the end which I thought was just special after the threats. But I won't post those....something about "Brother just send me my guitar..."

8. I received a call from someone claiming to be ebay, but at the time I was in 'this guy is trying to scam me' mode because a 701 area code number, Florida area code, called just as we were having this problem looking for 'High End' guitars claiming "a friend' had come into my shop and seen something high end. The word Caparison never came out but I put 2 and 2 together and figured this was a friend of Mr. OP. So when I got the call I thought 'no way this is ebay'. I later found out it was when I, myself, called ebay and the rep told me so. So yes I declined the phone call thinking it was a fake. Turns out it wasn't. My bad.

After that the whole thing pretty much fizzled out. I called ebay, the rep assured me he had no legal recourse and that the worst I had to look forward to was negative feedback as long as I had refunded the money, which i had. A few days later I received the negative feedback and it dropped my rating from 92.1 (I believe) to the 88 it is at present.
.
In the end he is just mad because he didn't get a guitar. He wasn't able to do anything through Ebay or Paypal to make me give him the guitar so the next best thing is to come here and QQ, tell lies and half truths, and to turn people against me for no reason. There was no insurance scam, there were no shenanigans, there is just a guy afraid of being burned on a expensive guitar, and a little boy playing the 'let&#8217;s troll a few forums' game after he didn't get what he wanted. Grow up. 

I think I have addressed everything adequately but if I have left out a crucial bit of info, please, by all means, drop me a line. I&#8217;m quite sure I have more than I have posted here. I am now a member of this site and plan to be a member for quite some time. Instant message me if you like. I love guitar shop talk and you never know who you&#8217;re going to meet on the web. Who knows, maybe I can sell the next Jimi his axe.

Also in case any of you are wondering, yes, I relisted and sold the guitar for $29.00 more than Mr. OP paid and the gentleman will be picking it up tomorrow. I'm going in on a Sunday to open up and give him his new guitar. (It is Saturday night as I&#8217;m writing this because I had to post it somewhere and couldn&#8217;t post on the forums yet.) The best part about the local pickup is he gets to try it out on any of the amps in the store he likes to insure the guitar is in fact working properly. That way he makes sure he gets his money's worth. Don't I sound shady?

And as for you Mr. OP (sorry I keep calling you that but I don't remember your name, just your email address) I DEFY YOU to prove me a liar. I should never have let your transaction continue as SOON as you offered to go around Ebay. I learned a valuable lesson from you and for that I thank you. Never again will I budge on a 'Local Pickup' nor deal with a ebay member who attempts to, or even offers to go around the ebay or paypal sites in anyway. I am sorry that you missed your 'dream guitar' but upon doing a bit more research I found out you are in fact a guitar dealer. You weren't going to take advantage of my good nature and resell my guitar for double what you paid.....were you? Nah you weren't.
Only someone with "ZERO INTEGRITY" would do such a thing. You hear that sound? That&#8217;s the sound of satisfaction being yearned for, and achieved. As I said in my last email...Good day Sir.

Brookside_Bopper1211 wins. Flawless Victory. Fatality. 

P.S. I apologize to the moderator/s for them having to read all of this nonsense and for further drawing out pointless threads that have nothing to do with actual guitar playing or interest. The last thing I want is to take away from the instrument or it's players but I couldn't stand by and see myself dragged through the mud. Thank you to all who defended me, I appreciate it a great deal. Also to those who thought me a scammer/thief I hope that if I haven't changed your mind that I at least swayed you a bit. I'm not evil, I'm not the devil, I am just the pawnshop guy. What I&#8217;m not is a liar and I feel I have proven it here.


----------



## highlordmugfug (Apr 10, 2011)

Everyone basically figured out what was going on the moment we saw *Local pickup only*


----------



## The Truth (Apr 10, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> Everyone basically figured out what was going on the moment we saw *Local pickup only*


 
And I thank all who know there are 2 sides to every coin.


----------



## HighGain510 (Apr 10, 2011)

Epic win. The gent who was involved in all this (not the seller of the Caparison, the would-be buyer) sent me several PM's asking me to sell him my Navarro. When I finally listed it on eBay and sent him the link, he suddenly stopped responding. He posted a WTB: White PRS thread on Rig-Talk, I post the link on there and he suddenly stops bumping the thread. REALLY glad I didn't go forward dealing with this guy, seems like a piece of work.


----------



## Mordacain (Apr 10, 2011)

I read the original post and thought the whole deal was pretty stupid myself.

That being said, OP, if you decide to start shipping, insurance is what you sell the guitar for. UPS (or whichever carrier you use) can claim insurance fraud should anything happen to the guitar and the investigation reveals it was sold for less than the insurance amount.


----------



## HighGain510 (Apr 10, 2011)

Mordacain said:


> I read the original post and thought the whole deal was pretty stupid myself.
> 
> That being said, OP, if you decide to start shipping, insurance is what you sell the guitar for. UPS (or whichever carrier you use) can claim insurance fraud should anything happen to the guitar and the investigation reveals it was sold for less than the insurance amount.



Yeah this is an excellent point, and if the guitar is damaged and you try to file an insurance claim if they know this was an eBay deal they will require proof from the auction of the actual value PAID TO YOU, so if you claim it was $3K but you actually sold it for $1500 you can get into a lot of trouble.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 10, 2011)

I love the smell of pwnage in the morning.


----------



## The Truth (Apr 10, 2011)

Mordacain said:


> I read the original post and thought the whole deal was pretty stupid myself.
> 
> That being said, OP, if you decide to start shipping, insurance is what you sell the guitar for. UPS (or whichever carrier you use) can claim insurance fraud should anything happen to the guitar and the investigation reveals it was sold for less than the insurance amount.


 
Having not done many transactions on ebay I didn't not know that charging the insurance amount I did was the incorrect thing to do. However that gives the accusor no right to come here or anywhere else and outright lie about 99.999999% of the transaction in an attempt to sully my reputation.

What he did and is doing, in my opinion, is way worse than me canceling a transaction because he didn't go through paypal to pay the shipping fees. Had he tried to work it out with me instead of going around me to UPS I may have agreed to it. That didn't happen. What happened happened. 

Now I know from speaking to the ebay rep that yes, I am to blame for the transaction progressing to this point. He is to blame for the libel remarks he has made here and elsewhere on the net.


----------



## Mordacain (Apr 10, 2011)

The Truth said:


> Having not done many transactions on ebay I didn't not know that charging the insurance amount I did was the incorrect thing to do. However that gives the accusor no right to come here or anywhere else and outright lie about 99.999999% of the transaction in an attempt to sully my reputation.
> 
> What he did and is doing, in my opinion, is way worse than me canceling a transaction because he didn't go through paypal to pay the shipping fees. Had he tried to work it out with me instead of going around me to UPS I may have agreed to it. That didn't happen. What happened happened.
> 
> Now I know from speaking to the ebay rep that yes, I am to blame for the transaction progressing to this point. He is to blame for the libel remarks he has made here and elsewhere on the net.



I agree with the libel remarks 100%, smacks of poor etiquette. Just playing devil's advocate, the only way he could use paypal to pay is to use a Paypal Debit card, which he may or may not have had. Even still, it doesn't track the same way as if you setup shipping on Ebay and pay for it as part of the transaction through Paypal at time of checkout. Just some advice from someone who has been hit the hard way with a shit buyer through eBay


----------



## MFB (Apr 10, 2011)

Not only did I thank the OP, but I even went as far as to like it too! Good work amigo.


----------



## Guitarman700 (Apr 10, 2011)




----------



## The Truth (Apr 10, 2011)

Mordacain said:


> I agree with the libel remarks 100%, smacks of poor etiquette. Just playing devil's advocate, the only way he could use paypal to pay is to use a Paypal Debit card, which he may or may not have had. Even still, it doesn't track the same way as if you setup shipping on Ebay and pay for it as part of the transaction through Paypal at time of checkout. Just some advice from someone who has been hit the hard way with a shit buyer through eBay


 
Thank you for your input. I will not take it lightly. I have learned an enormous lesson here that will not soon be forgotten. Thanks a million times to all of those who have emailed/im'd me in support.


----------



## SirMyghin (Apr 10, 2011)

Sorry mate, but you did say you would ship it to him and insuring over the value is both fraud, costly, and all that other fun stuff. I have had someone unknowingly ship to me with extra insurance and I was right pissed. Being in Canada he cost me a fair bit of money due to extra import to boot (opposed to just over charging me). 

As for him not paying for shipping right away, you both don't play straight although it looks like he was going to pay the store not you so who knows. Frankly, I wouldn't deal with either side.


----------



## The Truth (Apr 10, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Sorry mate, but you did say you would ship it to him and insuring over the value is both fraud, costly, and all that other fun stuff. I have had someone unknowingly ship to me with extra insurance and I was right pissed. Being in Canada he cost me a fair bit of money due to extra import to boot (opposed to just over charging me).
> 
> As for him not paying for shipping right away, you both don't play straight although it looks like he was going to pay the store not you so who knows. Frankly, I wouldn't deal with either side.


 
I understand that now, but I didn't then. However for him to go onto the net and claim me to be bi-polar, and that I 'freaked out' on him, and that he had to go through paypal and it took days for him to get his money back is just shameful at best. The ONLY true statement he has made is that I overcharged on insurance which I will not deny. That is my mistake and I take full responsibility for it. I figured the guitar retailed for $4000.00. Me insuring it for $3000.00 would surely be acceptable to the buyer, as this is a fraction of the replacement price. I was wrong.

I have personally seen the inside of a UPS shipping facility. Packages are dropped from conveyor belts like it's nothing out of the ordinary. As I stated I had grown quite fond of this guitar. Things like this should be handled delicately and with alot of care. This is not what I have witnessed with most shipping companies. My trust in the shipping industry is limited at best, hence the original add for 'local pick up only'. 

This is a lesson learned for me. Never tread outside the parameters of the original deal and NEVER reply to anyone who goes, or attempts to go around Ebay/Paypal.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Apr 10, 2011)

Well, this is what happened then. Good for you, but it's unfortunate that he's badmouthing you. I get around the forums a lot because I trade gear on a constant basis it seems, so I won't let it slide if I see any more defamation from him.

In any case, there's one very important thing you've missed here: if he pays for the shipping costs, he also possesses the right to keep that tracking number from you... which means after he receives the guitar, he can call paypal and tell them that you never shipped the guitar and that he needs his money back. They would contact you and you'd not be able to prove that you shipped the guitar, because you didn't. Very sneaky.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Apr 10, 2011)

Also, as far as the whole insurance bit goes: over-insuring the guitar is NOT fraud if the replacement cost of the instrument is as much or less than the insurance total.. In that case, it's not being over-insured at all. If the sale had been through eBay, that's one thing, but since it was through paypal, there's no way of proving that a simple screen shot of a transaction had anything to do with the sale of that guitar. For that matter, you could just make a quick transaction of the insured amount and present a screen shot of that in the event that there was a claim. However, If the guitar were damaged, UPS would simply ask for proof of value, which any retailer could provide you. If you actually shipped the guitar to this guy and it was damaged, you would NOT have been accused of insurance fraud since your insured amount was less than the retail price of a new Angelus.

So, anybody who's going on about this and accusing you of being shady for it can stop right quick. What you were doing made perfect sense, even if it wasn't necessary.


----------



## The Truth (Apr 10, 2011)

Yah the insurance bit is all my fault I can admit that. I know now what sort of rules ebay has about this sort of thing. Again though, if I had never gone around my original listing this never would have happened. It's 100% my fault for it going this far.

That being said this guy took things to a whole new level with the lies he has posted here, and on other forums. My hope here is to prove this and to make it be known that I accept my end of the responsibility for the insurance charges, but I will NOT allow the rest of these lies to be put on my head and be taken as 'The Truth'.


----------



## yingmin (Apr 11, 2011)

I read through the original thread, and engage757 said this when multiple people pointed out to him that the listing said "local pickup only":



engage757 said:


> Gee thanks, man, don't you think with as many deals as I have done on forums and ebay I can tell when it says that?



Later in that same thread, he posted a long email chain containing the following exchange:


engage757 said:


> Dear brookside_bopper1211,
> 
> hello friend,
> 
> ...


Way to get your story straight.


----------



## CrushingAnvil (Apr 11, 2011)

TL;DR.


----------



## Skanky (Apr 11, 2011)

CrushingAnvil said:


> TL;DR.




Dude eBays a guitar as "local pick-up only" and should have stuck with this.


----------



## The Truth (Apr 11, 2011)

Since this post I have asked the buyer to put all this behind us and work something out over on the threads at harmony central. I just await his response. Thanks again a million times to everybody that had my back. I saw love from literally all over the world over this and words can't express the gratitude. I'm hoping he and I can come to an agreement and let this whole thing fizzle out like a stale fart.


----------



## Origin (Apr 11, 2011)

Only claim insurance value for what you sold it for, original value doesn't make sense and is irrelevant.  But this buyer sounds like...IS...a retard haha. No doubt. Another case of someone not actually reading details.


----------



## The Truth (Apr 11, 2011)

Origin said:


> Only claim insurance value for what you sold it for, original value doesn't make sense and is irrelevant.


 
Yah I know now what I didn't know then. This is the most expensive thing I have ever shipped on ebay and had NO idea what the rules of shipping insurance were. I can admit that and have apologized for it. Lesson learned.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Apr 11, 2011)

Like I said, you legitimately wouldn't have been committing insurance fraud. Since it wasn't an eBay transaction, UPS would have asked for proof of value, not proof of sale.


----------



## MFB (Apr 11, 2011)

Origin said:


> Only claim insurance value for what you sold it for, original value doesn't make sense and is irrelevant.  But this buyer sounds like...IS...a retard haha. No doubt. Another case of someone not actually reading details.



I feel like claiming for what you sold it for is wrong since the same guitar could have sold for more, or less. I always assumed you should insure for the cost of a new one (provided it's a guitar you can still buy), that way if something WERE to go wrong in shipping, you'd have the cost of one and now the ability to afford it.


----------



## The Truth (Apr 11, 2011)

MFB said:


> I feel like claiming for what you sold it for is wrong since the same guitar could have sold for more, or less. I always assumed you should insure for the cost of a new one (provided it's a guitar you can still buy), that way if something WERE to go wrong in shipping, you'd have the cost of one and now the ability to afford it.


This is also what I thought. I guess we are both wrong  Oh well, at least now I know.


----------



## The Truth (Apr 11, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Like I said, you legitimately wouldn't have been committing insurance fraud. Since it wasn't an eBay transaction, UPS would have asked for proof of value, not proof of sale.


 This is all so confusing lol. I knew I should have went to law school!! Damn you alchohol and women!!


----------



## Origin (Apr 12, 2011)

MFB said:


> I feel like claiming for what you sold it for is wrong since the same guitar could have sold for more, or less. I always assumed you should insure for the cost of a new one (provided it's a guitar you can still buy), that way if something WERE to go wrong in shipping, you'd have the cost of one and now the ability to afford it.



It makes sense in theory, but new value doesn't matter anymore when it isn't the object's empirical value anymore. What it could be bought for new doesn't matter because it's not technically new. Accounting goes by the same rules in general; if a machine's foreseeable value is amortized over time and sold at the end of the period, they can't just sell it for the price they paid new, because that's just not what it's worth anymore. Especially with guitars, as soon as it's out the door of a shop or shipped to you, you've lost an assload of value. It sucks, I know


----------



## Mordacain (Apr 12, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Like I said, you legitimately wouldn't have been committing insurance fraud. Since it wasn't an eBay transaction, UPS would have asked for proof of value, not proof of sale.



Whether or not it was part of an Ebay transaction is irrelevant as far as UPS is concerned. UPS does investigate insurance claims. If there is one and it is revealed that it was sold in a transaction, that sell price becomes the value, regardless of replacement value.

Just a forewarning, UPS denies virtually every insurance claim outright. The value of having a UPS Store pack it is that they take on the responsibility of fighting for that claim and will ultimately pay the claim to you if it is denied by UPS' insurance company.

At least this is how it was related to me by the owner of my local UPS store, whom I'm on a first name basis with since I've been in there so often.


----------



## fireheart82 (Apr 12, 2011)

i saw this case on cap forum an jemsite. pick up only is written yes... but is it so hard to shipp it? its safe as long its wapped up in boobleplastic


----------



## The Truth (Apr 12, 2011)

fireheart82 said:


> i saw this case on cap forum an jemsite. pick up only is written yes... but is it so hard to shipp it? its safe as long its wapped up in boobleplastic


Well it wasn't an issue of difficulty. It was and issue of comfortability. I didn't feel comfortable having the buyer make the arrangements and pay with his credit card once he started changing the deal with the UPS clerk. I cancelled the transaction and refunded him. I would have left it at that and accepted his negative feedback (though I think it was unfounded, and he stated in another post had I refunded his money he wouldn't have left it, which I had done when he DID leave it) and that would have been the end. Instead he waited 2 days afterwards and then began to flame me ALL over the internet. I will not let these lies stand and will go everywhere I need to in order to defend myself against them.


----------



## HighGain510 (Apr 12, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Like I said, you legitimately wouldn't have been committing insurance fraud. Since it wasn't an eBay transaction, UPS would have asked for proof of value, not proof of sale.



They have asked me for both proof of current market value as well as actual value paid to me by the buyer. If you don't give them both pieces of information, they can (and more than likely will, since UPS LOOOOOVES to deny any and all insurance claims whenever possible) deny your claim completely. If you lie and insure it for $3K and they see you only sold it for $1500, they will not give you a check for $3K if the guitar gets broken. Trust me, I've seen it happen and heard the bitching from a bunch of friends who did this in the past. You ALWAYS get insurance for the amount that was paid to you for the guitar, period.


----------



## MFB (Apr 12, 2011)

Origin said:


> It makes sense in theory, but new value doesn't matter anymore when it isn't the object's empirical value anymore. What it could be bought for new doesn't matter because it's not technically new. Accounting goes by the same rules in general; if a machine's foreseeable value is amortized over time and sold at the end of the period, *they can't just sell it for the price they paid new, because that's just not what it's worth anymore*. Especially with guitars, as soon as it's out the door of a shop or shipped to you, you've lost an assload of value. It sucks, I know



See that's the thing I have an issue with, going by this logic, it could be worth ANYTHING at one point, so person A could be selling one for $1500 and person B could be selling one for $2000 and yet they could be in the same condition. Value and selling price differs from person to person so how could you insure anything on that logic that it's not worth the new price? You might not be able to find one for that same price you paid, this way you have MORE than enough to buy a used one.


----------

