# Dead or dying guitar trends, styles or brands...



## M3CHK1LLA (May 7, 2012)

like the title says, what do *you* feel is a dead / dying trend or music style.

maybe a guitar brand or shape. a band?...whatever. *discuss!*


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## Asrial (May 7, 2012)

Nu metal.


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

Asrial said:


> Nu metal.



This..

It is for all intents and purposes dead as dead can be, but there are still nu-metal bands and fans in the American Midwest that still think it's cool, and plenty of people in Eastern Europe still jock it as well. Pretty much the usual places where people are 10 years behind the times. If it weren't for them, the genre could officially be declared dead, but sadly it's still dragging its rotting carcass around, grasping desperately for relevance, only to still be "a thing" to people who are too dumb to know better.


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## AfterTheBurial8 (May 7, 2012)

yeah Nu-Metal has been dead for a while, the only bands that could get away with dropping a nu-metal album is one of the bands who started it, but even then, they have changed their sound to a modern style.

I hope Deathcore/Metalcore thins out in the next couple of years, everyone and their dog is doing it & it's getting fucking boring! They should take notes from Job for a Cowboy and ditch it for some lovely technical death, Ruination & Demonocracy are amazing!


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## Bigfan (May 7, 2012)

Proper blues has been dead for what, 30-70 years depending on how you look at it.


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## Joeseffel (May 7, 2012)

Metal without screamed vocals is going away. It's still there but all of the young up and coming bands seem to have vocals with screamed parts, if not screams exclusively.


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## Bigfan (May 7, 2012)

Joeseffel said:


> Metal without screamed vocals is going away. It's still there but all of the young up and coming bands seem to have vocals with screamed parts, if not screams exclusively.



Well, excluding Power metal and much of Prog and Folk Metal (And whatever the fuck Melodic Metal is, I guess.)


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## GenghisCoyne (May 7, 2012)

6 string guitars and 4 string basses


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## vampiregenocide (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> but sadly it's still dragging its rotting carcass around, grasping desperately for relevance, only to still be "a thing" to people who are too dumb to know better.



I still like numetal, including a lot of the new bands.


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

sad 4 u brah


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## MaxOfMetal (May 7, 2012)

Companies likely on the way out, or just floundering around:

Washburn:
Ever since the US Music Corp acquisition they haven't released many products, and have in fact cut their lineup down significantly. They've lost numerous players from their roster, and seem to be going nowhere. Even a few recent endorsees seem to be looking to jump ship. While I don't see the brand disappearing exactly, they're working their way into just making budget import guitars. Certainly a shell of their former self. 

Yamaha Music:
While there have been leaps and bounds, and their drums aren't going anywhere, their guitar and bass branch has been shrinking considerably over the last decade. Not only do they not put out very many guitars or basses at this point, but those they they do release can be next to impossible to track down, even at authorized dealers. It's a shame, as my Attitude bass is amazing, as was the John P. bass that I played. 

Aria:
This has been a long time coming, and given the economic situation in Japan, I doubt we'll see this brand as we know it for significantly longer. As of now, they're pretty much exclusive to Japan, at least as far as the higher end models go. I forget who owns them, but I doubt they'll ever have a strong presence in the US or EU ever again. They'll probably go back to just making D'Aquisto branded archtops. 

DBZ:
The fate of this brand is pretty dire, as Dean B. Zelinsky has once again left a company bearing his name. 

Jay Turser:
Another Asian import brand that seems to be dying off. Once extremely prevalent, now almost non-existent. 

Companies come and go, but not in the way everyone thinks. The names are usually bought out, and the factories change.


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## Demiurge (May 7, 2012)

Nothing ever dies; for every person calling "time of death" on a style, there are two necrophiliacs looking to explore it.

One thing is certain, though, that the concept of a monoculture is dead. Now, even the biggest artists in the world are in a sort of niche. There are too many media outlets for there to be so-called "shared cultural experiences." There's never going to be another rock 'n roll Satanic Panic, another Beatlemania, another Michael Jackson, or another Grunge movement, because styles are too diffuse for definition in many cases for adequate coverage/marketability, and there are too many artists out there for one to gobble-up everyone's attention.


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## SenorDingDong (May 7, 2012)

Death metal and black metal. Black metal has been on its last legs for quite a long time, and death metal is fading. Very few bands from either genre are having much success beyond underground shows/music festivals anymore.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 7, 2012)

SenorDingDong said:


> Very few bands from either genre are having much success beyond underground shows/music festivals anymore.



It was never really ever bigger than that. Even in DM's heyday it was about the more "underground" scene. 

Look at Cannibal Corpse, by all accounts they're the most successful DM band ever, and they're even more popular now than even back in the 90's. 

As for BM, I guess it's more about what folks consider "real" BM. The hipster culture, believe it or not, seems to really like BM. Maybe not for the music itself, but for the counterculture aspects. Regardless, thanks to the internet BM is also more prolific than it's ever been before, even compared to the so called heyday.


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## Blake1970 (May 7, 2012)

djent


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## JaeSwift (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> This..
> 
> It is for all intents and purposes dead as dead can be, but there are still nu-metal bands and fans in the American Midwest that still think it's cool, and plenty of people in Eastern Europe still jock it as well. Pretty much the usual places where people are 10 years behind the times. If it weren't for them, the genre could officially be declared dead, but sadly it's still dragging its rotting carcass around, grasping desperately for relevance, only to still be "a thing" to people who are too dumb to know better.



Dude, I know a lot of people from Eastern Europe and the "10 years behind" is an arrogant and common misconception based on ignorance. Did you know Romania invented insuline, for example? If they were 10 years behind that wouldnt have happened.

Just because their Economies arent doing too hot after years of Stalin fucking up everything they once had doesnt mean the people are stuck in early 2000.


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## cronux (May 7, 2012)

Blake1970 said:


> djent



this

just doesn't seem all that popular anymore... sure, people talk about Periphery (not my cup of beer) and maby a couple of others but seems to me that the hype is dying down... 
...and of course nu metal, old black/death metal, power/heavy (although in my country it's still in it's somewhat high point  ) etc.


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## JaeSwift (May 7, 2012)

Oh forgot to add Gibson.


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## Blasphemer (May 7, 2012)

SenorDingDong said:


> Death metal and black metal. Black metal has been on its last legs for quite a long time, and death metal is fading. Very few bands from either genre are having much success beyond underground shows/music festivals anymore.




For the record, I sincerely like BM, and a bunch of people I know like it, as well. What we don't like, however, is "kvlt" and "trve" assholes telling us what were allowed to like and dislike, so we don't make our passion for it very vocal. I can suspect that this is probably the case for a lot of BM fans, especially ones (like me) who also really enjoy USBM like Krallice or Wolves in the Throne Room.


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## amonb (May 7, 2012)

Dubstep. Its just passed its popularity hump and is going the way Big Beat did in the late 90s/early 00s. Skrillex will be the Fatboy Slim of the genre.

Its sad to see Washburns steady decline... there was a time they were everywhere... now it's just Nuno.


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## Bigfan (May 7, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> Did you know Romania invented insuline, for example?



Actually insuline was "invented" a few hundred million years ago 



...Sorry


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## VBCheeseGrater (May 7, 2012)

Scooped mids don't seem to be as popular as they once were. Seems to be all about more mids these days.


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## Mexi (May 7, 2012)

probably melodic death metal and metalcore. I have a friend who has a ska band, so think he missed that boat by at least 10 years


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## Jakke (May 7, 2012)

Bigfan said:


> Actually insuline was "invented" a few hundred million years ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...Sorry



Damn! You beat me to it!



JaeSwift said:


> Did you know Romania invented insuline, for example? If they were 10 years behind that wouldnt have happened.



And you are wrong, insulin was discovered by Dr. Frederick Banting (together with several others, no romanians, one lithuanian though). And no, he was not romanian, he was canadian. An american company called Genentech produced the first synthetic insulin in 1978.

Banting also won a Nobel Price for his discovery, so I'm not making this stuff up.

[Link for reading pleasure]


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> Dude, I know a lot of people from Eastern Europe and the "10 years behind" is an arrogant and common misconception based on ignorance. Did you know Romania invented insuline, for example? If they were 10 years behind that wouldnt have happened.
> 
> Just because their Economies arent doing too hot after years of Stalin fucking up everything they once had doesnt mean the people are stuck in early 2000.



Well, I don't recall speaking much to you on here, so I'll understand if you aren't aware of the way I normally get my point across in general. Everything I say here, or anywhere else on the internet for that matter has an element of sarcasm/satire in it at all times. 

Yes, I am in fact well aware that Eastern Europe is not some sort of Borat-land parallel dimension except in the rural areas. But even the socalled "rich" countries are backwards shitholes when you leave the cities, hence my mentioning the American Midwest _before_ Eastern Europe. Don't get too butthurt over the stuff I say on here, since 9 times out of 10 I'm joking to a certain degree. 

That said, now that we're at it, then please explain to me why every now and then when a band pops up that un-ironically plays nu-metal with a straight face in 2012 they're always from either some shithole in the US midwest or Eastern European/Russian!?  You've got to admit that is a bit odd, right? 
Just like when Christian bands from the US start jocking trends 5 years after they've died (see Demon Hunter) and Danish bands still ripping off In Flames and Mnemic today and the list goes on and on... 

I'll always reserve my right to mock people who jump on bandwagons too late, thank you very much. After all it is the only more mock-worthy and embarassing than jumping on a bandwagon in the first place, however timely.


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

vbshredder said:


> Scooped mids don't seem to be as popular as they once were. Seems to be all about more mids these days.



Well, then I'm behind the times too it seems


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## Don Vito (May 7, 2012)

Regular Deathcore that doesn't jump ship to copy Meshuggah riffs is dying.

I'd like to say At The Gates influenced metalcore(Darkest Hour,early A7X, ect..), then I remember Black Veil Brides.


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## VBCheeseGrater (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Well, then I'm behind the times too it seems



agreed, I just readjusted my sound over the weekend to get rid of some of the mids. Something had been buggin' me for awhile about it, like an overall dryness. Scooped the mids a smidge in my 6 band EQ, problem solved.


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## lucasreis (May 7, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> I still like numetal, including a lot of the new bands.



Same here. I like Nu-Metal and I'm not ashamed. 

And even my new band is an amalgamation of several influences including Nu-Metal, Grunge and Hard Rock.

Nu-Metal will always be around in one form or another, it won't die. Hard Rock didn't die, Thrash Metal didn't die, Death Metal didn't die, etc, etc, etc.

These genres will always exist, but they will be directed to a niche public instead of being mainstream and all.


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## lucasreis (May 7, 2012)

Demiurge said:


> Nothing ever dies; for every person calling "time of death" on a style, there are two necrophiliacs looking to explore it.
> 
> One thing is certain, though, that the concept of a monoculture is dead. Now, even the biggest artists in the world are in a sort of niche. There are too many media outlets for there to be so-called "shared cultural experiences." There's never going to be another rock 'n roll Satanic Panic, another Beatlemania, another Michael Jackson, or another Grunge movement, because styles are too diffuse for definition in many cases for adequate coverage/marketability, and there are too many artists out there for one to gobble-up everyone's attention.



This, everything exists, will continue existing, but everything is also fragmented. There's no "grunge craze" or "beatlemania" anymore. But there is a public for every kind of musical genre. Well said!


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## lucasreis (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Well, I don't recall speaking much to you on here, so I'll understand if you aren't aware of the way I normally get my point across in general. Everything I say here, or anywhere else on the internet for that matter has an element of sarcasm/satire in it at all times.
> 
> Yes, I am in fact well aware that Eastern Europe is not some sort of Borat-land parallel dimension except in the rural areas. But even the socalled "rich" countries are backwards shitholes when you leave the cities, hence my mentioning the American Midwest _before_ Eastern Europe. Don't get too butthurt over the stuff I say on here, since 9 times out of 10 I'm joking to a certain degree.
> 
> ...



What's wrong with people playing music that they like? Even if they discovered it later than other people? I see no problem with that. 

I like to follow what's current in music, but people should play what they like to play. This reeks of elitism to me.


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## ShadowFactoryX (May 7, 2012)

im confused to those who say death metal, and black metal and their subgenre's are dying

if anything, i've never seen black metal have more of a following, and how many one many projects (good ones at that) have popped up. i dont like that its got the hipster crowd involved in some areas, but there's some really good bm bands these days

and max's comments about cc are on, even though they're not for me, they've gained a lot of attention in the past few years
there's still plenty of dm bands doing things right despite trends coming and going
dying fetus anyone?

things i hope die sooner than later: breakdowns, dubstep, lady gaga


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## Mysticlamp (May 7, 2012)

deathcore, now all kids are trying to play is crappy hardcore


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## lucasreis (May 7, 2012)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> im confused to those who say death metal, and black metal and their subgenre's are dying
> 
> if anything, i've never seen black metal have more of a following, and how many one many projects (good ones at that) have popped up. i dont like that its got the hipster crowd involved in some areas, but there's some really good bm bands these days
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more about Death Metal.

To me, it's more popular than ever when compared to the early 90's where it was considered really evil and stuff. We see a lot of Death Metal parodies nowadays and although it's not mainstream per se, it reaches way more people than it used to. I blame the internet for it. Youtube is huge on Death Metal parodies and stuff like that, also, a lot of bands that aren't proper death metal end up being a gateway drug for people to enjoy the real thing and stuff lol


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## VBCheeseGrater (May 7, 2012)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> things i hope die sooner than later: breakdowns, dubstep, lady gaga



I gotta admit i love a GOOD breakdown. Example - the end of Hatebreed's "Everyone Bleeds Now". Friggin brutal, love it.


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

lucasreis said:


> What's wrong with people playing music that they like? Even if they discovered it later than other people?



EVERYTHING 



lucasreis said:


> I like to follow what's current in music, but people should play what they like to play. This reeks of elitism to me.



My favorite band is Deathspell Omega. It is physically impossible for me to be anything _but_ an elitist prick. 

That said, of course people should be allowed to play what they like, just as I should be allowed to mock them for it if it's done half-assedly. This is the internet after all.


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## lucasreis (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> EVERYTHING
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, very good point, I must say I really liked the way you handled this situation! 

This reply + your avatar gave me a good time


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

Good, good... I mean, let there be no doubt though; I think Nu-Metal as a rule is stupid music for stupid people, but on the other hand I like dumbass pop-punk and caveman Death Metal like Tormented, Death Breath and shit like that so I am in no position whatsoever to claim intellectual superiority  

I am just a different breed of retard, that's all.


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## broj15 (May 7, 2012)

Punk had been dead since probably the mid 90's. And I don't mean Green Day punk. I mean real punk. Sure, rancid is still around, but given there lack of activity in the last few years I would hardly call them relavent. East Bay Ray or Jello Biafra might come out of their caves and collaborate with some one but really that's just to remind the world that they haven't died yet. It's a shame that the genre I used to be so passionate about had already been dead for 7 or 8 years by the time I got into it.

Disclaimer: yes there is still a pretty active underground punk scene but I highly doubt there will ever be a punk band that will really h the same level of success and notoriety of the Ramone, the Sex Pistols, the Dead Kennedy's, or The Misfits.


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## lucasreis (May 7, 2012)

broj15 said:


> Disclaimer: yes there is still a pretty active underground punk scene but I highly doubt there will ever be a punk band that will really h the same level of success and notoriety of the Ramone, the Sex Pistols, the Dead Kennedy's, or The Misfits.



So it means it's not dead. If someone is still doing it, it's alive, after all.


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## MUTANTOID (May 7, 2012)




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## Jakke (May 7, 2012)

We still got a pretty strong D-beat going on over here, same with punk really. Punk is carried on through a lot of domestic rock music as well.


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## Murmel (May 7, 2012)

I sincerely hope the indie scene gets toned down a bit. Just for my own towns sake. Fuck, almost every single local act here is some half assed indie act.
Sure, I can appreciate good indie, but unfortunately that doesn't make up the majority of it.

I don't know what it's like in the south Jakke, but I feel like we're getting eaten from the inside by hipsters.


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## Lagtastic (May 7, 2012)

Volume swells 

Heavy music that uses Ionian mode

Regular old chord strumming


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## Randy (May 7, 2012)

EMG routes


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## Jakke (May 7, 2012)

Murmel said:


> I don't know what it's like in the south Jakke, but I feel like we're getting eaten from the inside by hipsters.



The south? The south?

Yeah, I guess it's south to you innit... Quite a lot of hipsters, quite a lot of them, especially around the student nations.


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## broj15 (May 7, 2012)

lucasreis said:


> So it means it's not dead. If someone is still doing it, it's alive, after all.



Sorry. I guess i kind figured we we're talking about stuff that was dead to the relative mainstream


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## lucasreis (May 7, 2012)

broj15 said:


> Sorry. I guess i kind figured we we're talking about stuff that was dead to the relative mainstream



Well, you are right about that as well


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## thedonal (May 7, 2012)

Who said Gibson? That was funny. kind of. 

Maybe it should be "Gibson guitars made of wood". 

Ideally, it'd just be Henry Juskiewicz being dropped. For all the good he did the company, he really needs to go. A well as overkill on all the different Les Paul models (maybe this could go for Fender too)


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## Konfyouzd (May 7, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> I still like numetal, including a lot of the new bands.



Agreed


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## canuck brian (May 7, 2012)

Hope for a new Necrophagist album.


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## MaxOfMetal (May 7, 2012)

canuck brian said:


> Hope for a new Necrophagist album.


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## JaeSwift (May 7, 2012)

Jakke said:


> Damn! You beat me to it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



About 10 years before Banting and Best, R.C Paulesco made an extract from the pancreas of a dog, lowering it's glucose levels and effectively discovering insulin. Here's a link to the full power point presentation 

http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=r.c%20paulesco&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CHcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.childrenwithdiabetes.com%2Fpresentations%2FDMCare-Past-Future-0904.ppt&ei=ZAGoT7fAMJLJ8gOl_cXPBA&usg=AFQjCNFGuBVCIJowdB5BtoYL8cYPKGBItA&cad=rja

Opinions are divided about who actually invented insulin but to say Romanian's have nothing to do with it is pretty wrong, especially if 10 years prior to the actual discovery Paulesco already knew the effects of the pancreas on glucose levels. 

Loomer, don't get me wrong, I actually like your sense of humor as it's close to my own, but saying parts of Europe are stuck in the past is such an overused saying that I would have thought someone who uses intelligent humor to choose better examples. I.e what you talk about that, when going out of the city's it turns in to a back-water shithole; either you're just basing this on what you saw in Borat (which are Gypsy camps, FYI Romanians don't even consider Gypsies to be Romanian) or you just don't know at all. I've been to Romania and I've seen some really beautiful places. Yes, there were lower-tech little villages (some didn't even have heating for example) but then they all had ADSL connections that are much better than those found in, for example, Australia. 

Back on topic; only thing in music that I can really think of as being dead would be Disco; hence the saying ''Dead as Disco''


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

I've.been on tour twice in Eastern Europe, and seen both sides of it, pretty much. The place in Serbia was a shithole no matter how you'd turn it, really fucking depressing place, but the bigger cities in Hungary for instance were ludicrously nice. Then you had like Slovakia which was sort of in-between but still kinda shitty (the venue didn't have functioning toilets) and then you had Ljubljana which I had to be dragged out of kicking and screaming because I just loved the place and the people so damn much!


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## Stealthdjentstic (May 7, 2012)

Randy said:


> EMG routes



Not fast enough unfortunately


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## Jakke (May 7, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> About 10 years before Banting and Best, R.C Paulesco made an extract from the pancreas of a dog, lowering it's glucose levels and effectively discovering insulin. Here's a link to the full power point presentation
> 
> http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=r.c%20paulesco&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CHcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.childrenwithdiabetes.com%2Fpresentations%2FDMCare-Past-Future-0904.ppt&ei=ZAGoT7fAMJLJ8gOl_cXPBA&usg=AFQjCNFGuBVCIJowdB5BtoYL8cYPKGBItA&cad=rja
> 
> Opinions are divided about who actually invented insulin but to say Romanian's have nothing to do with it is pretty wrong, especially if 10 years prior to the actual discovery Paulesco already knew the effects of the pancreas on glucose levels.



Very interesting, however was Paulesco's insulin unusable on humans (if I recall correctly), his discovery, however big, is not really in the same magnitude as the scientists who made usable insulin. 
It's not like the controversy between Newton and Leibnitz about diferentiation. 
Saying that Romania "invented" insulin is pretty wrong IMO, it was a romanian (who studied in Paris, he came back to Romania to do research) who worked with it. It's like saying that Sweden invented the dynamite (I didn't have anything to do with it!). 
The second wrong is that you compare pre-Soviet Romania with post-Soviet Romania, Soviet effectively broke the Romanian society, and they have had to recover. 
The issue here were not if Romanians are stupid (they are not, of course), but wheather eastern europeans enjoy music that is outdated here in the west, and quite frankly, they do. It's nothing wrong with that, D-beat is still pretty popular here, and it became outdated in the US after the 90's.


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

I love how my half-joking about shitty nu-metal bands from Pennsylvania, Glorbvania or whatthefuckever turned into a discussion about medicine 

Also, keep the anonymous neg rep comin' guys. Whatever it takes to make you feel like a big man, I'm game.


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## Jakke (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> I love how my half-joking about shitty nu-metal bands from Pennsylvania, Glorbvania or whatthefuckever turned into a discussion about medicine



There is NO joking on SSO





Loomer said:


> Also, keep the anonymous neg rep comin' guys. Whatever it takes to make you feel like a big man, I'm game.



This is one of the more trafficated parts of the forum, chances are quite large that there is going to come along someone who gets butthurt. I once got reg-repped because someone percieved an attack on a band I had to google after he had neg-repped me


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

I can't really get butthurt over people calling me an elitist dick because.... Well, i AM an elitist dick! That's just the truth, so it's about as bad as telling me I need oxygen to breathe and that my taste in art and music is by default superior to everyone else's. Those are just indisputable facts of life. 

Misspelling "Elitist" though will send me into an abyss of rectal pain. Forever buttmad.


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

Jakke said:


> There is NO joking on SSO



...as the Off-Topic forum clearly shows! 

NO FUN ALLOWED


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## Wings of Obsidian (May 7, 2012)

Bigfan said:


> Proper blues has been dead for what, 30-70 years depending on how you look at it.


 
I agree with this. Actual blues has gone out and hasn't come back... (I sure do miss Stevie Ray Vaughan). I'm sorry, but if you call John Mayer as one of the greatest "blues" guitarists (when he plays shitty "bubblegum pop"), then you can kiss my ass.

Aside from that little rant above. ^ I hope that the metalcore/deathcore field thins out a bit too. After Killswitch Engage and Bullet For My Valentine, all these melodic metalcore bands came around, put out an album, then vanished off the face of the planet. (There was just such a massive influx of crappy bands trying to play metalcore! ) Luckily, it's died down alot, but now everyone wants to play deathcore and just CHUG....CHUG....CHUG....SINGLE....NOTE....CHUG. That crap NEEDS to die too.

In my opinion, if you want to play deathcore and sling your guitar super-low making it harder to play, at least do it with class, style, and technicality. At least try to match some of the greatest deathcore bands like Veil of Maya or Born of Osiris.


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

Also this:


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## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I agree with this. Actual blues has gone out and hasn't come back... (I sure do miss Stevie Ray Vaughan). I'm sorry, but if you call John Mayer as one of the greatest "blues" guitarists (when he plays shitty "bubblegum pop"), then you can kiss my ass.
> 
> Aside from that little rant above. ^ I hope that the metalcore/deathcore field thins out a bit too. After Killswitch Engage and Bullet For My Valentine, all these melodic metalcore bands came around, put out an album, then vanished off the face of the planet. (There was just such a massive influx of crappy bands trying to play metalcore! ) Luckily, it's died down alot, but now everyone wants to play deathcore and just CHUG....CHUG....CHUG....SINGLE....NOTE....CHUG. That crap NEEDS to die too.
> 
> In my opinion, if you want to play deathcore and sling your guitar super-low making it harder to play, at least do it with class, style, and technicality. At least try to match some of the greatest deathcore bands like Veil of Maya or Born of Osiris.



Interesting you say that, because I sort of agree on John Mayer. His blues stuff is competently done, but not nearly as convincing as the real deal. That said the guy OWNS the so-called "Bubblegum Pop" thing. I mean, songs like "Neon", "Covered In Rain" and "Bigger Than My Body" are seriously fucking good songs, because he just sticks to what is his thing, instead of trying something that may not fall as naturally to him.

What I'm thinking is, that maybe, just MAYBE, you know, hypothetically speaking, all the trendhoppers that came along during KsE-Core's heyday and whatnot could have been half-decent or even really good bands if they just ditched the mindset of "We gotta play what's in style now" and just do what came naturally to them instead?! Wouldn't that be a better world?

I can take an example from my own country; A band called Sickseed. Although I bring them up by name, Denmark has countless bands with the same problem, so I'm not just talking about them. Nevertheless, they've existed for a little over 10 years, and they have sucked massively every minute of it. They've been trendhoppers the entire way as well, with them trying Meshuggah-lite Deathcore these days, as opposed to the Metalcore they did a few years ago, and Nu-metal they did before that. Now, hypothetically, could this band (and the others) have been better if they'd just focused on doing what really did feel right to them, instead of just blindly going along with stuff that was in vogue?!


----------



## Jakke (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Also this:



Oh yes... It still itches from the last time, and I have trouble peeing..


----------



## Demiurge (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> I can't really get butthurt over people calling me an elitist dick because.... Well, i AM an elitist dick! That's just the truth, so it's about as bad as telling me I need oxygen to breathe and that my taste in art and music is by default superior to everyone else's. Those are just indisputable facts of life.
> 
> Misspelling "Elitist" though will send me into an abyss of rectal pain. Forever buttmad.



If it weren't for elitism, everything would be good.


----------



## Xaios (May 7, 2012)

canuck brian said:


> Hope for a new Wintersun album.



Fixed.


----------



## Spaceboy (May 7, 2012)

I'm not sure I agree with the 'numetal is dead' comments when bands like Five Finger Death Punch are immensely popular and getting radio play across the United States. Also, they're from California, not the midwest. Sure, someone is going to argue that they're "hard rock" and not numetal, trying to start the same tired discussion we heard for every band around in the late '90s.... yawn.


----------



## Necris (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Also this:
> *picture*


----------



## devolutionary (May 7, 2012)

FFDP are one of the worst nu-metal bands I've ever heard. Good lord.

And Loomer makes this thread.


----------



## Meximelt (May 7, 2012)

@ wings of obsidian, totally agreed on the whole blues thing. Grew up listening to Stevie Ray Vaughan, and he is still my favorite guitarist of all time.


----------



## Loomer (May 7, 2012)

Spaceboy said:


> I'm not sure I agree with the 'numetal is dead' comments when bands like Five Finger Death Punch are immensely popular and getting radio play across the United States. Also, they're from California, not the midwest. Sure, someone is going to argue that they're "hard rock" and not numetal, trying to start the same tired discussion we heard for every band around in the late '90s.... yawn.



Oh, yeah, forgot about those guys. They're sort of straddling the line between regular red-state butt rock and Nu-metal, definitely proving that the genre can be commercially viable to a very large degree. 

Also, to anon neg repper #4: At no point did I ever claim my sarcasm was "subtle"  _Nothing_ could be further from the truth, I gladly admit that.

Damn, I'd almost forgotten how much fun this forum can be


----------



## Necris (May 7, 2012)

I'm sorry I visited this thread now that I'm aware of the fact that Five Finger Death Punch are still around.


----------



## devolutionary (May 7, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Oh, yeah, forgot about those guys. They're sort of straddling the line between regular red-state butt rock and Nu-metal, definitely proving that the genre can be commercially viable to a very large degree.
> 
> Also, to anon neg repper #4: At no point did I ever claim my sarcasm was "subtle"  _Nothing_ could be further from the truth, I gladly admit that.
> 
> Damn, I'd almost forgotten how much fun this forum can be



Wait, you're being sarcastic?!


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (May 7, 2012)

Stuff like finnish melodeath, or any kind of metal with wicked shredding without the songs being wanky
(my band's halway, we have wicked fun shredding but then overblown prog wank songs )




Xaios said:


> Fixed.



Beat me to it!


----------



## niffnoff (May 7, 2012)

devolutionary said:


> FFDP are one of the worst nu-metal bands I've ever heard...



I don't really listen to anything past The Way of The Fist but have I missed something? When/How are they Nu-Metal 


I think breakdowns that are just pure open string (emmure *cough*) need to disappear.


----------



## pink freud (May 7, 2012)

lucasreis said:


> So it means it's not dead. If someone is still doing it, it's alive, after all.



Almost 7 billion people on this world, no genre is dead then.


----------



## Xaios (May 7, 2012)

Thank God, now I know that my efforts in the Chinese Drum'n'Bass Proto-Post-Prog Nu-Metal with Didgeridoos subgenre aren't in vain!


----------



## lurgar (May 7, 2012)

I know it's not guitar, but it has been interesting to see Dubstep be like a flash in the pan. It definitely had some interesting things, got overtaken by "Brostep" (all those woooom wooom woom woom woom woooooooms), was integrated into a few popular songs (Britney Spears) and has sorta just fallen away. 

The British are pretty good a lot of times about just moving on with electronic music trends. Something comes along, gives a couple years of decent to good music, and then it morphs into something else and a new cycle can continue.


----------



## Xaios (May 7, 2012)

lurgar said:


> The British are pretty good a lot of times about just moving on with electronic music trends. Something comes along, gives a couple years of decent to good music, and then it morphs into something else and a new cycle can continue.



Yes, but the British have Chavs, which act like sponges of bad taste to clear away the trace amounts of whatever get left behind. The rest of the world isn't so (un)fortunate.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi (May 7, 2012)

Metalheads. Tube heads, too!


----------



## flint757 (May 7, 2012)

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I agree with this. Actual blues has gone out and hasn't come back... (I sure do miss Stevie Ray Vaughan). I'm sorry, but if you call John Mayer as one of the greatest "blues" guitarists (when he plays shitty "bubblegum pop"), then you can kiss my ass.
> 
> Aside from that little rant above. ^ I hope that the metalcore/deathcore field thins out a bit too. After Killswitch Engage and Bullet For My Valentine, all these melodic metalcore bands came around, put out an album, then vanished off the face of the planet. (There was just such a massive influx of crappy bands trying to play metalcore! ) Luckily, it's died down alot, but now everyone wants to play deathcore and just CHUG....CHUG....CHUG....SINGLE....NOTE....CHUG. That crap NEEDS to die too.
> 
> In my opinion, if you want to play deathcore and sling your guitar super-low making it harder to play, at least do it with class, style, and technicality. At least try to match some of the greatest deathcore bands like Veil of Maya or Born of Osiris.



Most actually do not classify Stevie as true blues since he was the blues revival and played shred blues in the Texas Blues genre. True blues was dead before Stevie, he had to bring blues back and nearly failed several times.



Spaceboy said:


> I'm not sure I agree with the 'numetal is dead' comments when bands like Five Finger Death Punch are immensely popular and getting radio play across the United States. Also, they're from California, not the midwest. Sure, someone is going to argue that they're "hard rock" and not numetal, trying to start the same tired discussion we heard for every band around in the late '90s.... yawn.



I was unaware that FFDP classified as Nu Metal, but I absolutely hate them either way


----------



## troyguitar (May 7, 2012)

In metal? Singing. So much that I gave up entirely on my band. Nobody fucking cares anymore if you don't have br00tal breakdowns and screams. Fuck that shit, I'd rather play 12 bar blues for hours on end than XxX-c0re-XxX


----------



## Atomshipped (May 7, 2012)

Do all these countless sub-genres make anyone else want to punch a baby in the face?


----------



## Wings of Obsidian (May 7, 2012)

Meximelt said:


> @ wings of obsidian, totally agreed on the whole blues thing. Grew up listening to Stevie Ray Vaughan, and he is still my favorite guitarist of all time.


 
Haha! Thanks bro! Respect!


----------



## ShadowFactoryX (May 7, 2012)

Demiurge said:


> If it weren't for elitism, everything would be good.



there's a lot of truth in that statement



Atomshipped said:


> Do all these countless sub-genres make anyone else want to punch a baby in the face?



they make me want to make babies, and sub-name them

i dont know why people get so buttanguished about subgenre's
who cares? does it really have any bearing on if you like the music or not?
if you're motto is "metal is metal, jazz is jazz" and you like the same music that the Atmospheric Post-Rock/Black Metal/Shoegaze or Neo-swing/Fusion/Free Jazz person does, then why should you care?

i like subgenre's, they help me grasp more easily what the sound characteristics of a band are

if someone hands me a "the devil wears prada" cd and Keith Merrow's new album and says "these are two both awesome metal cds"...

 < me all day long


----------



## 3074326 (May 7, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> Oh forgot to add Gibson.



Gibson is the brand I sell the most of where I work. I'm not a Gibson homer, either. People just want them. 

I'd argue that there are more people who dislike them now than ever, but there are more people who love them than ever. But are they dying? Certainly not.


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 7, 2012)

Randy said:


> EMG routes



God I fuckin' hope so...


----------



## ilyti (May 7, 2012)

Blues seems to be pretty popular still. Despite the fact that modern blues musicians (eg. Joe Bonamassa) are playing stuff that, if they came out in 1975, I would have considered fantastic. Blues is a genre that will never die because there is a lot of American tradition and nationalism behind it. It's considered blasphemy in some blues circles that if you alter from the 12-bar style or don't play exclusively pentatonic solos, then you're a wanker, and what you play isn't "real blues." I just hate that attitude. And the blues scene is FULL of jerks like that.


----------



## Necris (May 8, 2012)

troyguitar said:


> In metal? Singing. So much that I gave up entirely on my band. Nobody fucking cares anymore if you don't have br00tal breakdowns and screams. Fuck that shit, I'd rather play 12 bar blues for hours on end than XxX-c0re-XxX



I don't believe clean singing is dying out in metal any more than screaming is but regardless it seems to me that your only course of action aside from giving up is to stop bitching, learn to sing yourself and continue creating the music you enjoy regardless of whether or not anyone else shows interest. Sure you won't be an amazing singer within a year, but it's not as though you have a deadline.


----------



## RearyGay (May 8, 2012)

"Singing" in metal isn't dying out; it's easier to learn how to do a shitty growl then take the vast amount of time out to learn how to properly sing.

If a 15 year old kid wants to be in a band, he's going to do it the easy way, hence the influx of ever-poopier growls showing up over the years.


----------



## Bigfan (May 8, 2012)

niffnoff said:


> I think breakdowns that are just pure open string (emmure *cough*) need to disappear.





No.

2.40 and onward here:


----------



## samdaman87 (May 8, 2012)

Leads. Everyone has kind of gotten lazy and just added a tune of breakdowns instead. I just wish that there were more traditional heavy metal bands. Damn, I am going to go listen to some more Annihilator.


----------



## Loomer (May 8, 2012)

Xaios said:


> Thank God, now I know that my efforts in the Chinese Drum'n'Bass Proto-Post-Prog Nu-Metal with Didgeridoos subgenre aren't in vain!




Now, as much as I hate Nu-Metal, I would pay genuine good money to hear that!


----------



## cronux (May 8, 2012)

KRANK amps
remember when Dime started using them then every one was using them... Dime died and "the stocks plummeted". so no one's using them now, but hey that's what marketing is all about 
never liked those amps...

wah-wah
dunno, all these djent, crabcore, deathcore w/e metal bands seem to forget about THE WAH or at least to use it once in a while  (al least i see it like that)

and to all you "insulin lovers"... i'm from Croatia - we invented the modern day torpedo


----------



## Loomer (May 8, 2012)

I'm from Denmark, we invented the song "Barbie Girl". 

brb working out plans to nuke my own country into oblivion as penance


----------



## cronux (May 8, 2012)

Loomer said:


> I'm from Denmark, we invented the song "Barbie Girl".
> 
> brb working out plans to nuke my own country into oblivion as penance



you also invented the Lego so kudos for that


----------



## thedonal (May 8, 2012)

lurgar said:


> I know it's not guitar, but it has been interesting to see Dubstep be like a flash in the pan. It definitely had some interesting things, got overtaken by "Brostep" (all those woooom wooom woom woom woom woooooooms), was integrated into a few popular songs (Britney Spears) and has sorta just fallen away.
> 
> The British are pretty good a lot of times about just moving on with electronic music trends. Something comes along, gives a couple years of decent to good music, and then it morphs into something else and a new cycle can continue.


 
I think that electronic (particularly dance) music is very similar to metal in it's infinite sub-genre dividing. It's like cells dividing or something!

I think it's also similar in that serious fans really cling to the 'underground' side of the music, rather than the "commercial" wide-appeal stuff and that "going commercial" is seen as a bad thing.


----------



## HOKENSTYFE (May 8, 2012)

The art of great guitar playing, is dead. You used to have to be able to play multiple styles, before you could even consider yourself a good guitarist. Now with all this...victim rock, if you can convince people they just didn't hear what they thought they heard then, you can survive to make another record. The position of the elite lead guitarist has been shamed away. Nobody dare stand up & seize the place of top guitarist, today. The whole art of rock & roll, is dead. 

I don't even want to start on the frontman, nowadays. The art of proficiency has been dumbed down to a formula when, music should be a feeling. The art to get the women lazy-headed, with some sweet power ballad. Dead. It used to be how to get the most attention by rocking peoples socks off. Now, please...listen to my demo. Grunge started, what nu metal kept feeding, self-deprecation. 

Great guitarists had to earn their keep, not beg for it. They used to fight for the front position, over the frontman. The art of great guitar playing, is dead.


----------



## spawnofthesith (May 8, 2012)

Lots of  in this thread


----------



## Necris (May 8, 2012)

HOKENSTYFE said:


> *long-winded rant*



So a bit of arrogance from guitarists would bring "the art of great guitar playing" back in your eyes?


----------



## Ninjahat (May 8, 2012)

HOKENSTYFE said:


> The art of great guitar playing, is dead. You used to have to be able to play multiple styles, before you could even consider yourself a good guitarist. Now with all this...victim rock, if you can convince people they just didn't hear what they thought they heard then, you can survive to make another record. The position of the elite lead guitarist has been shamed away. Nobody dare stand up & seize the place of top guitarist, today. The whole art of rock & roll, is dead.
> 
> I don't even want to start on the frontman, nowadays. The art of proficiency has been dumbed down to a formula when, music should be a feeling. The art to get the women lazy-headed, with some sweet power ballad. Dead. It used to be how to get the most attention by rocking peoples socks off. Now, please...listen to my demo. Grunge started, what nu metal kept feeding, self-deprecation.
> 
> Great guitarists had to earn their keep, not beg for it. They used to fight for the front position, over the frontman. The art of great guitar playing, is dead.



Back in my day, you could get 3 bottles of milk, a loaf of bread, 6 steaks and the farm that made it all. Those were the days.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (May 8, 2012)

thedonal said:


> ...I think it's also similar in that serious fans really cling to the 'underground' side of the music, rather than the "commercial" wide-appeal stuff and that "going commercial" is seen as a bad thing.


i remember when metallica first came out...

...it was *so* underground. now i here their music (mainly the black album on up) on the classic rock station


----------



## HOKENSTYFE (May 8, 2012)

Necris said:


> So a bit of arrogance from guitarists would bring "the art of great guitar playing" back in your eyes?



If you will forgive another...long winded rant?  Yes. Not sure how much more I can take. A guitarist shyly, in the corner, rocking that less than inch hair, looking at his fretboard, counting down till the spot light is off him. 

There is no more arrogant, flamboyant, look at me position in all the world. Ok maybe, president of the United States. The art...the art I say, of the guitarist is dead. When was the last time you really went to a show, to see a guitarist shred? Nowadays, I'd be surprised if a guitarist went off 'script', rocked a shit kicking solo for 3-5minutes & wouldn't be presented with a bus ticket back home, before he even left the stage. 

Not as many chicks around shows like there used to be. Chicks even know the difference. Now you got guys talking about, 'hey did you see how well such & such kept that time signature, a thing of beauty, if they just had a third guitarist that might be so underground relevant we could feel like it meant something to us, as true music fans'.

I know I'm taking shots & for that, I get whatever I get. I have found a thread that could let me voice my sadness. I love the showmanship of metal. Always have, always will. It was supported for it's entertainment value & worshipped for it's technicality. I feel like all those that want to be guitarist do not know the history of, the rock & roll, metal guitarist. 

I don't rant much here, on Sevenstring.org. I'm found to my Awe with this thread. Whether it's my age or the inspiration of certain guitarists. This metal thing used to be THE thing in the world. It hasn't been that, for a long while. Thanks for the space to rant, SS.org!


----------



## HOKENSTYFE (May 8, 2012)

Ninjahat said:


> Back in my day, you could get 3 bottles of milk, a loaf of bread, 6 steaks and the farm that made it all. Those were the days.



Not sure about that. All I wanted was the cassette of the guitarist that would shred your farm!


----------



## Loomer (May 8, 2012)

HOKENSTYFE said:


> If you will forgive another...long winded rant?  Yes. Not sure how much more I can take. A guitarist shyly, in the corner, rocking that less than inch hair, looking at his fretboard, counting down till the spot light is off him.
> 
> There is no more arrogant, flamboyant, look at me position in all the world. Ok maybe, president of the United States. The art...the art I say, of the guitarist is dead. When was the last time you really went to a show, to see a guitarist shred? Nowadays, I'd be surprised if a guitarist went off 'script', rocked a shit kicking solo for 3-5minutes & wouldn't be presented with a bus ticket back home, before he even left the stage.
> 
> ...



Hair Metal is still around, so I don't really see your problem.


----------



## avenger (May 8, 2012)

Djent


----------



## lucasreis (May 8, 2012)

pink freud said:


> Almost 7 billion people on this world, no genre is dead then.



Actually. Some genres are not relevant, but they surely aren't dead. 

Dead and relevant are two different animals.

If one person is doing something, it's alive, this is how I see it.


----------



## cronux (May 8, 2012)

this



HOKENSTYFE said:


> Nowadays, I'd be surprised if a guitarist went off 'script', rocked a shit kicking solo for 3-5minutes & wouldn't be presented with a bus ticket back home, before he even left the stage.



and this



HOKENSTYFE said:


> 'hey did you see how well such & such kept that time signature, a thing of beauty, if they just had a third guitarist that might be so underground relevant we could feel like it meant something to us, as true music fans'.



+1


----------



## lucasreis (May 8, 2012)

devolutionary said:


> FFDP are one of the worst nu-metal bands I've ever heard. Good lord.
> 
> And Loomer makes this thread.



I wouldn't consider FFDP as Nu-Metal, they definitely have Nu-Metal influence, but songs like Walk Away and Remember Everything sound more like 80's ballads with lower tunings than Nu-Metal songs. Also, solos are all over the place, and there isn't a single song with a Korn-like breakdown. They definitely aren't nu-metal, but are easily liked by nu-metal fans due to some similarities. 

And, fuck it, I like FFDP


----------



## canuck brian (May 8, 2012)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Metalheads. Tube heads, too!



I'd totally agree with you on the tube head thing if an Axe-FXII Ultra rig with speakers wasn't going to run me $2500 - $3000 more than the tube head and 4x12 cabinet i picked up.

I've been blown away by the entire tone matching abilities of gear lately. I looked around recently and was hoping to hear someone copy And Justice for All and the Black Album's guitar tone.....nudge nudge.


----------



## lurgar (May 8, 2012)

thedonal said:


> I think it's also similar in that serious fans really cling to the 'underground' side of the music, rather than the "commercial" wide-appeal stuff and that "going commercial" is seen as a bad thing.



Electronic music is the new punk.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (May 8, 2012)

HOKENSTYFE said:


> If you will forgive another...long winded rant?  Yes. Not sure how much more I can take. A guitarist shyly, in the corner, rocking that less than inch hair, looking at his fretboard, counting down till the spot light is off him.
> 
> There is no more arrogant, flamboyant, look at me position in all the world. Ok maybe, president of the United States. The art...the art I say, of the guitarist is dead. When was the last time you really went to a show, to see a guitarist shred? Nowadays, I'd be surprised if a guitarist went off 'script', rocked a shit kicking solo for 3-5minutes & wouldn't be presented with a bus ticket back home, before he even left the stage.
> 
> ...



That's a bad way to look at it, seriously. I see a guitarist aspiring to be as accurate and precise as he possibly can good work ethic. He's having fun in his own way by playing that way, yeah showmanship is amazing and really adds to the show. But I fail to see how you can expect people to play that way when each person is different. 

On the topic of seeing a band as a job, people don't pay to go to an improvised concert. People like paying for what they're familiar with, songs they know and what they can relatively follow. If the guitarist decides to play a solo for the sake of "showmanship" he damn well better be something to shout over, or else people will quickly lose interest. If people want that, they'd hit up a Van Halen concert or any local Music Shop for that matter hahahahaha.

I understand what you're saying but I don't think it's something to shun, if someone took the time to prepare their live show and presence and to play that proficiently there's something to appreciate in that equally as much as someone who can play and look like they're going nuts on stage.


----------



## ZEBOV (May 8, 2012)

GenghisCoyne said:


> 6 string guitars and 4 string basses



I'm a little inclined to disagree about the 6 string guitars. Most guitarists still play them.
However, I see 5 string bassists more than all other bassists combined. Not just in metal, but all genres. I see 5 string basses on TV more than 4 strings. And plenty of times, those 5 string bassists never go below low E.


----------



## lucasreis (May 8, 2012)

ZEBOV said:


> I'm a little inclined to disagree about the 6 string guitars. Most guitarists still play them.
> However, I see 5 string bassists more than all other bassists combined. Not just in metal, but all genres. I see 5 string basses on TV more than 4 strings. And plenty of times, those 5 string bassists never go below low E.



True, it's like they use it just because it looks cool and all! lol


----------



## Murmel (May 8, 2012)

ZEBOV said:


> And plenty of times, those 5 string bassists never go below low E.



5 strings can make for more comfortable fingerings even if you don't go below E. Hell, I played a Christina Aguilera song at ensemble class and my B string made it much easier for me to get the low F where I was playing, I never went below F in that song. I much prefer them, except for slapping.
I have a girl in my class that has a bit of a problem with me playing a 5 string. She doesn't admit it, but I can tell she thinks it's weird. She doesn't believe me when I say it's actually more common for professional musicians to use 5s than 4s


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (May 8, 2012)

Womans rights


----------



## lucasreis (May 8, 2012)

Murmel said:


> 5 strings can make for more comfortable fingerings even if you don't go below E. Hell, I played a Christina Aguilera song at ensemble class and my B string made it much easier for me to get the low F where I was playing, I never went below F in that song. I much prefer them, except for slapping.
> I have a girl in my class that has a bit of a problem with me playing a 5 string. She doesn't admit it, but I can tell she thinks it's weird. She doesn't believe me when I say it's actually more common for professional musicians to use 5s than 4s



You should insert some lower notes in the song just to piss her off lol


----------



## Murmel (May 8, 2012)

^
I try to make use of the B string often, just because I really enjoy when you get those really low notes in stuff like pop. You honestly have much more use for an extra B string on bass than guitar.


----------



## JaeSwift (May 8, 2012)

3074326 said:


> Gibson is the brand I sell the most of where I work. I'm not a Gibson homer, either. People just want them.
> 
> I'd argue that there are more people who dislike them now than ever, but there are more people who love them than ever. But are they dying? Certainly not.



The brand is dying, the products arent. In 10 years time all the people with major spending power will avoid Gibson because they are absolute masters at a alienating new customers. They almost whent belly up in 2010 and their EU support is near non existant now.


----------



## ArtDecade (May 8, 2012)

HOKENSTYFE said:


> The art of great guitar playing, is dead.



False. There are more awesome guitar players in Tokyo per square mile than anywhere else in the world. J-Pop & J-Rock is alive and well. 

Just because whatever bands you are listening to don't bring a smile to your face doesn't mean that awesome players are everywhere. Heck, even pop starlets like keeping shredders around. Nuno, anyone?


----------



## bhakan (May 8, 2012)

Yea, I think guitar playing is making a sort of comeback. It seems that after the excessive shredding of the 80s, a lot of people got sick of hearing guitarists show off, so grunge was very simplistic as far as guitars go, but recently I've heard more solos on the radio (like Alter Bridge, Mark Tremonti is a great guitarist) and more bands with good guitarists. You don't have to have long, off the cuff guitar solos to be a good guitarist. Tosin Abasi doesn't do that (at least as far as I know), but he is an absolutely phenomenal player.


----------



## Razzy (May 8, 2012)

Murmel said:


> 5 strings can make for more comfortable fingerings even if you don't go below E. Hell, I played a Christina Aguilera song at ensemble class and my B string made it much easier for me to get the low F where I was playing, I never went below F in that song. I much prefer them, except for slapping.
> I have a girl in my class that has a bit of a problem with me playing a 5 string. She doesn't admit it, but I can tell she thinks it's weird. She doesn't believe me when I say it's actually more common for professional musicians to use 5s than 4s



+1 to this.

I play bass in a cover band and I never play lower than a D, but I use the lowest string plenty. The guitarists have to tune between songs that are in standard and drop d, but I've got all the notes I need in one tuning.


----------



## JaeSwift (May 8, 2012)

Oh, MySpace is also pretty comatose


----------



## Hankey (May 8, 2012)

Razzy said:


> +1 to this.
> 
> I play bass in a cover band and I never play lower than a D, but I use the lowest string plenty. The guitarists have to tune between songs that are in standard and drop d, but I've got all the notes I need in one tuning.



+2

I play bass in a rock band that plays in Eb, but we have one song song that requires a low Db and because I hate retuning between songs I took the lazy approach and bought a 5 string. I do however try to incorporate the low B when writing new songs...


----------



## drgamble (May 8, 2012)

Actually recording a guitar track on a record without editing the life out of it. In the old days, if you paid a lot of attention you could hear mistakes, noises, etc. Now with all of the digital stuff, it is more common to just splice a guitar track together and edit every little stray noise out. Modern recording technology makes musicians sound better than they actually are.


----------



## canuck brian (May 8, 2012)

Buying an entire new rig to match what Bulb has. 

I swear there were a dozen people running ENGL's thru Orange cabs at one point on here.


----------



## JaeSwift (May 8, 2012)

canuck brian said:


> Buying an entire new rig to match what Bulb has.
> 
> I swear there were a dozen people running ENGL's thru Orange cabs at one point on here.


----------



## highlordmugfug (May 8, 2012)

canuck brian said:


> Buying an entire new rig to match what Bulb has.
> 
> I swear there were a dozen people running ENGL's thru Orange cabs at one point on here.


I'm so glad that died.

Bulb is/was great, but the nut-riding on here was painful to watch.


----------



## fps (May 8, 2012)

Metal that's actually fun to listen to. Dead. I see heavy bands, loads of them. They're po-faced and serious and screamy and miserable. Even the best bands I see who are potentially gonna break through make music that everyone just stands there watching. Makes me wonder if there are any actual fans of this music or everyone's just an impressed and frustrated guitarist.


----------



## SenorDingDong (May 8, 2012)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It was never really ever bigger than that. Even in DM's heyday it was about the more "underground" scene.
> 
> Look at Cannibal Corpse, by all accounts they're the most successful DM band ever, and they're even more popular now than even back in the 90's.
> 
> As for BM, I guess it's more about what folks consider "real" BM. The hipster culture, believe it or not, seems to really like BM. Maybe not for the music itself, but for the counterculture aspects. Regardless, thanks to the internet BM is also more prolific than it's ever been before, even compared to the so called heyday.





> ...what do *you* *feel* is a dead / dying trend or music style.



He was asking opinions, and mine is death metal and black metal.

Cannibal Corpse may be having their most success, but the majority of death metal bands are not in the same boat. And black metal... well, twenty to a hundred hipsters at an underground club isn't exactly a thriving scene in my eyes.


----------



## nickgray (May 8, 2012)

fps said:


> Metal that's actually fun to listen to


----------



## BornToLooze (May 8, 2012)

drgamble said:


> Actually recording a guitar track on a record without editing the life out of it. In the old days, if you paid a lot of attention you could hear mistakes, noises, etc. Now with all of the digital stuff, it is more common to just splice a guitar track together and edit every little stray noise out. Modern recording technology makes musicians sound better than they actually are.



I never really got how people do that, when I record stuff and I mess up it just seems easier to record the whole track again. I mean it isn't like your recording a whole album, it's only gonna take a couple of minutes.


----------



## flint757 (May 8, 2012)

Kenji20022 said:


> That's a bad way to look at it, seriously. I see a guitarist aspiring to be as accurate and precise as he possibly can good work ethic. He's having fun in his own way by playing that way, yeah showmanship is amazing and really adds to the show. But I fail to see how you can expect people to play that way when each person is different.
> 
> On the topic of seeing a band as a job, people don't pay to go to an improvised concert. People like paying for what they're familiar with, songs they know and what they can relatively follow. If the guitarist decides to play a solo for the sake of "showmanship" he damn well better be something to shout over, or else people will quickly lose interest. If people want that, they'd hit up a Van Halen concert or any local Music Shop for that matter hahahahaha.
> 
> I understand what you're saying but I don't think it's something to shun, if someone took the time to prepare their live show and presence and to play that proficiently there's something to appreciate in that equally as much as someone who can play and look like they're going nuts on stage.



I don't know AC/DC never plays the same solo as the record. If I want to hear what's on the record I'll pop the CD in it's cheaper. If the band can pull it off (albeit most probably can't) improvising would be preferred by me. All being the same I still go to see bands who cookie cutter their gigs.



bhakan said:


> Yea, I think guitar playing is making a sort of comeback. It seems that after the excessive shredding of the 80s, a lot of people got sick of hearing guitarists show off, so grunge was very simplistic as far as guitars go, but recently I've heard more solos on the radio (like Alter Bridge, Mark Tremonti is a great guitarist) and more bands with good guitarists. You don't have to have long, off the cuff guitar solos to be a good guitarist. Tosin Abasi doesn't do that (at least as far as I know), but he is an absolutely phenomenal player.



Tremonti sucks live. (great writer though IMO) He records well, but he plays terrible live. He'd be better if he had more confidence in his playing, but he saturates his notes with effects and it sounds terrible because of it. (something people do to cover up mistakes 9/10)


----------



## All_¥our_Bass (May 8, 2012)

fps said:


> Metal that's actually fun to listen to. Dead. I see heavy bands, loads of them. They're po-faced and serious and screamy and miserable. *Even the best bands I see who are potentially gonna break through make music that everyone just stands there watching.* Makes me wonder if there are any actual fans of this music or everyone's just an impressed and frustrated guitarist.


Might just be attracting a different kind of fan. I don't usually go to shows because I'm not into showmanship at all, I just stand and watch-I'm there for the music and not for the show.


----------



## niffnoff (May 8, 2012)

Bigfan said:


> No.
> 
> 2.40 and onward here:




You hit a big string with my heart with Architects.. I forgive you... 

But I mean like an ENTIRE SONG WORTH OF ZEROS that's what I meant


----------



## linchpin (May 8, 2012)

Standard E tuning.









Ps. nu metal still rules.


----------



## Don Vito (May 8, 2012)

I still love standard E tuning.

I listened to a lot of 80's/90's thrash when I first started getting into music.

Still love the crunchy/tight muted sound of a distorted E string.


----------



## lucasreis (May 8, 2012)

kennedyblake said:


> I still love standard E tuning.
> 
> I listened to a lot of 80's/90's thrash when I first started getting into music.
> 
> Still love the crunchy/tight muted sound of a distorted E string.



I also love standard E and I have a six string which I play in standard E and sometimes standard Eb. 

But we almost don't hear standard E in metal and even in radio rock these days. It's almost always D and below. C is really popular everywhere, it seems.


----------



## Don Vito (May 8, 2012)

Yeah, for true...


----------



## Loomer (May 8, 2012)

highlordmugfug said:


> I'm so glad that died.
> 
> Bulb is/was great, but the nut-riding on here was painful to watch.



Yeah, good thing that stopped, otherwise we'd have AxeFX's and BKP Aftermaths all over the pl...

Oh...


----------



## Don Vito (May 8, 2012)




----------



## Sikthness (May 8, 2012)

For the most part, riffs that are actually HEAVY. Like ballsy, heavy as fuck riffs. There are a few still going strong, like Gojira. Its unfortunate that most bands would seemingly prefer to tune lower than come up with something heavy due to composition.


----------



## Eric Christian (May 8, 2012)

BC Rich guitars... pretty well done for.

Industrial Music... so played out it's basically gone except for some small scenes in Canada, Mexico, LA, NY & Europe.


----------



## Xaios (May 8, 2012)

Sikthness said:


> For the most part, riffs that are actually HEAVY. Like ballsy, heavy as fuck riffs. There are a few still going strong, like Gojira. Its unfortunate that most bands would seemingly prefer to tune lower than come up with something heavy due to composition.



There are a few bands out there that still write with heaviness. Listen to the album "Night Eternal" by Moonspell. The opening song features some crushingly heavy riffs, and is in E standard.


----------



## The Uncreator (May 8, 2012)

Nothings ever dead, the listener only lets it die.


----------



## bulb (May 8, 2012)

highlordmugfug said:


> I'm so glad that died.
> 
> Bulb is/was great, but the nut-riding on here was painful to watch.



Did it really die, or is it just a lot easier to buy an Axefx?
Haha i kid i kid.


----------



## bulb (May 8, 2012)

Sikthness said:


> For the most part, riffs that are actually HEAVY. Like ballsy, heavy as fuck riffs. There are a few still going strong, like Gojira. Its unfortunate that most bands would seemingly prefer to tune lower than come up with something heavy due to composition.



This is a tough argument to support because "heaviness" is subjective. Maybe a stronger argument would be: Metal bands who play in dead standard tuning. Like not even E flat standard. Like 9-46 standard as fuck, hey this les paul still has great tension standard!


----------



## makeitreign (May 8, 2012)

He's got a point though. A friend of mine always wants to show me these breakdowns because they're "heavy as fuck."

They're always 00-0000-00-0-000-00-000000-000-00-0-0-0-0.
THAT makes me want to punch babies.


----------



## Xaios (May 8, 2012)

makeitreign said:


> He's got a point though. A friend of mine always wants to show me these breakdowns because they're "heavy as fuck."
> 
> They're always 00-0000-00-0-000-00-000000-000-00-0-0-0-0.
> THAT makes me want to punch babies.



You forgot 000000-7---8-7-8-000000-7---8-PICKSQUEAL!


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 8, 2012)

Anyone remember when you had to wait til damn near the end of a song for a breakdown? And it actually WAS the heaviest riff in the song? 

Example: "I'll Cast a Shadow" - Pantera


----------



## samdaman87 (May 8, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Anyone remember when you had to wait til damn near the end of a song for a breakdown? And it actually WAS the heaviest riff in the song?


Yeah its funny because I have seen bands actually start off as a breakdown in the beginning of a song and end it with that same break down. Like I said there are no good leads these days. No soulful anymore that make a song unique.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi (May 8, 2012)

Long hair


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 8, 2012)

Blasphemy!


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (May 8, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Anyone remember when you had to wait til damn near the end of a song for a breakdown? And it actually WAS the heaviest riff in the song?
> 
> Example: "I'll Cast a Shadow" - Pantera


 
Better examples:


----------



## nickgray (May 8, 2012)

makeitreign said:


> They're always 00-0000-00-0-000-00-000000-000-00-0-0-0-0.
> THAT makes me want to punch babies.



Makes me think of these kinds of riffs:

--10-9---12-10-9-9/10/9
00--0 000--0-0--0--

Every time I hear a thousandth variation on this sort of riff I just wanna shoot myself. I mean you have all these frets, all these strings, and this is the best you came up with?


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (May 8, 2012)

nickgray said:


> I mean you have all these frets, all these strings, and this is the best you came up with?


 
Yes because clearly you have to use every note in the fretboard to make a memorable riff.


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 8, 2012)

Don't need all the strings all the time. Not even on a 6.


----------



## nickgray (May 8, 2012)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Yes because clearly you have to use every note in the fretboard to make a memorable riff.



Sarcasm. I even put the smiley face after the sentence.


----------



## ESP_ (May 8, 2012)

Riffs using pinch harmonics and still sounding good, and exception is Huge Hammers.


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 8, 2012)

What?


----------



## LamaSabachthani (May 8, 2012)

actually, is Bulb/Periphery's popularity on here dying? in terms of how often it gets discussed. Way before the self-titled came out, I know we talked about Periphery very, very often, but since they became a bit more 'mainstream' (i.e. didn't just exist on paper rather than as a real band) we don't seem to talk about them very much on ss.org anymore ...

... although I have admittedly not visited the 'mega' thread in some time.


----------



## LamaSabachthani (May 8, 2012)

ESP_ said:


> Riffs using pinch harmonics and still sounding good, and exception is Huge Hammers.



isn't zakk wylde still alive?


----------



## MFB (May 8, 2012)

I can't wait for this whole "liking music" trend to be over, I mean Jesus Christ! It's been like, HOW many years you've been listening to it? Just let it go man, music is dead don't you know?

And don't get me STARTED on when people started listening to the same bands as ME. I strived to find unique and fresh artists and then they come up and they're all like "Do you know this band Metallica?" and I'm all "...I _did_. Until now. Thanks."

Pfft. Posers.


----------



## highlordmugfug (May 8, 2012)

bulb said:


> Did it really die, or is it just a lot easier to buy an Axefx?
> Haha i kid i kid.


Hahaha, excellent point. 

We'll just say, at the very least it's slightly less obvious now.


----------



## niffnoff (May 8, 2012)

linchpin said:


> Standard E tuning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sylosis


----------



## decypher (May 9, 2012)

Joeseffel said:


> Metal without screamed vocals is going away. It's still there but all of the young up and coming bands seem to have vocals with screamed parts, if not screams exclusively.



yeah that did make metal pretty boring if not annoying. another angry, yelling kid.. yay...


----------



## Don Vito (May 9, 2012)

Xaios said:


> You forgot 000000-7---8-7-8-000000-7---8-PICKSQUEAL!



He also forgot the most important:
1
0 chord.


----------



## rainbowbrite (May 9, 2012)

power metal. and black metal. the world will be a better place.


----------



## TheGrimRiffer (May 9, 2012)

Baritone guitars! I can't find hardly any production model baritones out there right now. I'm sure companies still make them (I know of the PRS Mke Mushok for instance), but why aren't they more popular, especially for rhythm guitar players in bands that tune super low. You don't need more strings, all you need is a longer neck!


----------



## oompa (May 9, 2012)

I can't wait for the "pop" metal genres to die out, like djent, nu metal, screamo, all the -core stuff etc. and I believe it will happen.

These are all just my opinions - they're not my kind of tea (the genres) since I like weird and experimental stuff  but there is another reason I'd like em to lose ground. I remember growing up a music nerd and around the age of 16 suddenly jocks everywhere popped up wearing black hoodies, metal was suddenly cool and I had to discuss In Flames (who just started sucking) with people who last year had the personalities of mannequins  That's when I kinda realized that we were going into an era where popular culture would raid the sh*t out of metal and it would take a while for it to go away  

The following years all these housebroke metal bands who polished their prada caps and went on stage and yelled like they hmm.. "sorta" meant it, made metal "ok". This has many benefits but the negative side of it is that well, a lot of music that is so boring to me as a musician took shitloads of space. They get the record deals, they get the publicity and so on, but more importantly the things about music that I like were sidelined for other characteristics.

As a guy who feel that the Linkin Park guy and the Dismember guy yell for completely different reasons and that difference is important to me  I would love for metal to go back out of fashion again.. Most of my youth metal has been "pop" and now I'd like "pop" to go nuts on some other genre, like reggae or something 

I want to see where metal goes next with less of the commercial influence it has had the past 10-15 years. I don't want record companies to sign Slipknot 2 because they know they'll sell, I want them to sign a new act that sound like nothing else because they also happen to sound really good 

Again just my 2 cents, comfortably aligning with my interests  <3


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (May 9, 2012)

Metal was popular where you lived? Literally, two other kids in my high school grad class listened to metal.


----------



## oompa (May 9, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Metal was popular where you lived? Literally, two other kids in my high school grad class listened to metal.



Haha  I'm from northern Sweden though  might be why, I don't know lol


----------



## flint757 (May 9, 2012)

oompa said:


> Haha  I'm from northern Sweden though  might be why, I don't know lol



Yeah in the western hemisphere faux metal, rock, pop and rap are what's popular. (not in any order)

Metal as a whole here is left for the minority. there may be some metal heads who consider separate areas like core more mainstream, but it is still the minority.


----------



## Slunk Dragon (May 9, 2012)

Either it's just me or NOT incorporating arpeggios into solos seems to be dying. Maybe it's just most of the music I wind up hearing, but it seems 90% of guitarists can't shy away from doing nothing but arpeggios until they're just a can of hairspray away from being another Malmsteen. Granted I also hear plenty of awesome uses of arpeggios and many different takes on how to use them stylistically, but I'm talking about just the straight octaves of nothing but the same damn pattern and just moving it up and down. Too many arpeggioed solos sound the same to me.

Or maybe I'm just a whiny dude with nothing but time who complains, idk. [/2cents]


----------



## rainbowbrite (May 9, 2012)

the pentatonic scale--i think kirk hammet has depleted all reserves of pentatonic scales along with his wah abuse.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (May 9, 2012)

Slunk Dragon said:


> Either it's just me or NOT incorporating arpeggios into solos seems to be dying. Maybe it's just most of the music I wind up hearing, but it seems 90% of guitarists can't shy away from doing nothing but arpeggios until they're just a can of hairspray away from being another Malmsteen. Granted I also hear plenty of awesome uses of arpeggios and many different takes on how to use them stylistically, but I'm talking about just the straight octaves of nothing but the same damn pattern and just moving it up and down. Too many arpeggioed solos sound the same to me.
> 
> Or maybe I'm just a whiny dude with nothing but time who complains, idk. [/2cents]


 
It definitely isn't just you. Sweeps are to this decade what fingertapping was to the 80s. The tapping fad did eventually die out, though, so there's hope .


----------



## Slunk Dragon (May 9, 2012)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> It definitely isn't just you. Sweeps are to this decade what fingertapping was to the 80s. The tapping fad did eventually die out, though, so there's hope .



Tapping is kind of coming back, although it appears to be done more tastefully (or maybe it's not  ).

But still, arpeggio sweeps are seeming WAY too common to me.


----------



## Loomer (May 9, 2012)

bulb said:


> This is a tough argument to support because "heaviness" is subjective. Maybe a stronger argument would be: Metal bands who play in dead standard tuning. Like not even E flat standard. Like 9-46 standard as fuck, hey this les paul still has great tension standard!



Atheist - "Enthralled In Essence"... DAT INTRO

Sounds like 15 bulldozers rolling over angry elephants.


----------



## fps (May 9, 2012)

ESP_ said:


> Riffs using pinch harmonics and still sounding good, and exception is Huge Hammers.



If you play the Diablo Swing Orchestra track from further back while watching this post, it looks like the monkey is dancing to it


----------



## -42- (May 9, 2012)

Complaining about music you don't listen to isn't going away any time soon.


----------



## fps (May 9, 2012)

oompa said:


> I can't wait for the "pop" metal genres to die out, like djent, nu metal, screamo, all the -core stuff etc. and I believe it will happen.
> 
> These are all just my opinions - they're not my kind of tea (the genres) since I like weird and experimental stuff  but there is another reason I'd like em to lose ground. I remember growing up a music nerd and around the age of 16 suddenly jocks everywhere popped up wearing black hoodies, metal was suddenly cool and I had to discuss In Flames (who just started sucking) with people who last year had the personalities of mannequins  That's when I kinda realized that we were going into an era where popular culture would raid the sh*t out of metal and it would take a while for it to go away
> 
> ...



Careful what you wish for. Without metal bands that are able to appeal to large groups of people the whole genre will die entirely- the best metal bands will never be heard of outside their hometowns. If there is no Linkin Park, no In Flames, then there are no support slots on gigs with a guaranteed audience, no festivals for new bands to go below them on the bill and make names for themselves, eventually everyone stops even trying to be in a metal band because the best, most musical of them will have grown up listening to and getting into other music. 

Second of all, there are plenty of music fans around, Linkin Park don't steal fans from other bands that sound nothing like them, rather they have a sound and were promoted in a way that drew people to them, because they liked what they heard. If big metal bands go away it doesn't make some obscure tech-death band bigger as a result. It just means fewer people ever hear a distorted guitar.

In fashion? Metal is dying outside internet forums, due to stolen music and low gig attendance. Fact.


----------



## Pooluke41 (May 9, 2012)

Well. Fuck.

A Double Post...


----------



## Pooluke41 (May 9, 2012)

kennedyblake said:


> He also forgot the most important:
> 1
> 0 chord.



This is deathcore we're talking about; 

0
1 Chord. (Drop A)


----------



## Go To Bed Jessica (May 9, 2012)

Bigfan said:


> Proper blues has been dead for what, 30-70 years depending on how you look at it.



Blues isn't dead, it just smells like it.


----------



## Fiction (May 9, 2012)

LamaSabachthani said:


> isn't zakk wylde still alive?



Yeah, he said _GOOD_ Pinch Harmonic Riffs.


----------



## HOKENSTYFE (May 9, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Hair Metal is still around, so I don't really see your problem.



My problem is the level of guitar play not their barber. I could of said the whole flamboyance of hair metal. I didn't. Though, I believe in the stand alone look of rock & roll & heavy metal, I miss great guitarists, more. 

As for hair metal...I can just assume you meant the era of the best guitar players, with the era of the greatest singers, making the greatest rock & metal songs, ever. It was called... Heavy Metal.


----------



## cronux (May 9, 2012)

Low strapped guitars

(at least semi-low)

all i see nowadays is highly strapped guitars, GQ lookin' guys and head bobbing 

p.s. i kinda miss those insulin guys from the start of this thread


----------



## Loomer (May 9, 2012)

With my old band I rocked my SG as low as I could because fuck the po-lice.


----------



## traditional (May 9, 2012)

Anyone who says nu-metal is dead needs to look at how many records bands like Korn are still selling, and how many people show up to their concerts. Also, this is coming from me, someone who hates nu-metal.
I'll also say that people who think tube-heads are dying out have been on this forum for too long - the modelling fad is a niche-market. It'll be a long long long time before tube-heads die off. Plus, tubes sound better. #fuckdahaters


----------



## Necris (May 9, 2012)

SenorDingDong said:


> He was asking opinions, and mine is death metal and black metal.
> 
> Cannibal Corpse may be having their most success, but the majority of death metal bands are not in the same boat. And black metal... well, twenty to a hundred hipsters at an underground club isn't exactly a thriving scene in my eyes.


Your opinion is wrong. If anything Black Metal is evolving, maybe from the outside it looks like nothing has really changed but over the years I have seen plenty of different genres and new approaches absorbed into black metal. It's an extremely flexible genre which is something everyone seems to want to deny. If getting over 100 people at a show regularly is your definition of success though black metal has been dead since it began.

Neither death metal or black metal was ever meant to reach a huge audience to begin with but with the internet and social networking fanbases in both genres are growing rapidly compared to back in the 90's, a time which seems to be regarded as their heyday. The success of Cannibal Corpses and Dimmu Borgir are great examples of how well the genres are actually doing, whether you or I enjoy the bands or not.


----------



## goherpsNderp (May 9, 2012)

finger tapping these days is more rhythmic and part of the general riffs of songs, rather than it being cool "icing on the cake" kind of things incorporated into leads and solos like in the 80's. some artists pioneered using in it riffage back then but it didn't seem to catch on.......... until now. it's become damn near perfected too. COUGH - SIKTH - COUGH


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 9, 2012)

goherpsNderp said:


> finger tapping these days is more rhythmic and part of the general riffs of songs, rather than it being cool "icing on the cake" kind of things incorporated into leads and solos like in the 80's. some artists pioneered using in it riffage back then but it didn't seem to catch on.......... until now. it's become damn near perfected too. COUGH - SIKTH - COUGH



Don't forget THE BEARD...


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 9, 2012)

Necris said:


> Your opinion is wrong.


----------



## Necris (May 9, 2012)

There is evidence that directly contradicts his opinion, his opinion is that a genre is dying, there is clear evidence that the genre and it's fanbase is actually growing, therefore his opinion is wrong.


----------



## CyborgSlunk (May 9, 2012)

Fiction said:


> Yeah, he said _GOOD_ Pinch Harmonic Riffs.





Intro and 3:00, especially the latter


----------



## Louis Cypher (May 9, 2012)

Be a massive shame if Washburn went but yeah pretty much only Nuno left, won't count Stanley as his guitars are stoopid looking and not Iceman's... 

Music wise I think there ain't a lot to get excited about in many genre's right now, the old stalwarts are still doing the business but I would say that there is a bit of a downward trend for most genre's of metal or rock right now, imo.... No band or genre is really burning like the sun right now, certainly not in the way that Nu Metal did or Hair Metal in the mid 80's or grunge came form no where to dominated the world.... not sure if thats possible any more now with the internet/Itunes etc etc.... 

Outside of Metal, Blues ain't dead, poss one the more exciting genres out there right now. Kenny Wayne Shepherd or Mayer or Bonamassa, Phillip Sayce, Richie Kotzen even they are all carrying it forward and doing some awesome stuff! And the old classic blues is gonna be liek Classical music, 100 years from now people still be covering tracks like Crossroads....


----------



## linchpin (May 9, 2012)

A Sepultura reunion... glad people have moving on with their lives and stopped dreaming.


----------



## DLG (May 9, 2012)

SenorDingDong said:


> Death metal and black metal. Black metal has been on its last legs for quite a long time, and death metal is fading. Very few bands from either genre are having much success beyond underground shows/music festivals anymore.




when was black and death metal killing it in the mainstream, must have missed it?


----------



## lucasreis (May 9, 2012)

oompa said:


> I can't wait for the "pop" metal genres to die out, like djent, nu metal, screamo, all the -core stuff etc. and I believe it will happen.
> 
> These are all just my opinions - they're not my kind of tea (the genres) since I like weird and experimental stuff  but there is another reason I'd like em to lose ground. I remember growing up a music nerd and around the age of 16 suddenly jocks everywhere popped up wearing black hoodies, metal was suddenly cool and I had to discuss In Flames (who just started sucking) with people who last year had the personalities of mannequins  That's when I kinda realized that we were going into an era where popular culture would raid the sh*t out of metal and it would take a while for it to go away
> 
> ...



I would kill to live in a place where Metal is sort of popular. 

Come live in Brazil for 2 months and you'll be begging to go back to Sweden. Even the regular rock radios are not even existent here, the metalheads here are a bunch of assholes who only listen to "traditional" stuff, they stopped listneing to metal at Iron Maiden, and they think everything sucks. Talk about being pop-elitists, if that's even possible.

I would rather live in a place where rock is sort of relevant. It fucking sucks to live here because it's hard to find band members with the same mindset. Even ERG instruments are a rarity here because of the lack of popularity in metal, people just see these things as totally alien and stuff.

In the 90's rock and metal were more popular here, nowadays it's all about pop, R&B and every single kind of shit music you can find on MTV. It fucking sucks. I would kill to have at least one proper rock radio, even if it sucked, because it would influence more people to get into metal, popular rock and metal stuff works like a gateway drug for heavier stuff for a lot of people. Hell, I started listening to metal when I was 7/8, and I did it thanks to the influence of my mom, but also thanks to the influence of MTV and the hair metal bands. My taste got heavier and heavier, but the gateway drug effect was awesome. 

God, I miss the 90's, at least kids weren't discussing Kesha and David Guetta on my school, like the kids are doing here today.


----------



## lucasreis (May 9, 2012)

linchpin said:


> A Sepultura reunion... glad people have moving on with their lives and stopped dreaming.



Makes sense.

I dreamed a lot about it, they were heroes to me when I was growing up, some of them lived in the same city I live, at that time. 

But fuck it, it ain't gonna happen anyway.


----------



## Louis Cypher (May 9, 2012)

lucasreis said:


> Its all about pop, R&B and every single kind of shit music you can find on MTV. It fucking sucks. I would kill to have at least one proper rock radio, even if it sucked, because it would influence more people to get into metal, popular rock and metal stuff works like a gateway drug for heavier stuff for a lot of people. Hell, I started listening to metal when I was 7/8, and I did it thanks to the influence of my mom, but also thanks to the influence of MTV and the hair metal bands. My taste got heavier and heavier, but the gateway drug effect was awesome.



I would lay a lot of blame on MTV for the state of things now, Metal made MTV what it is in the 80's/early 90's but then it sh2t on it in return.... how the fucking jesus christ can you have a channel called Music Television and there be NO FUCKING MUSIC ON IT?!?!?!?!? Nothing but fucking Kim Kardashian's fat arse! andn then nothing but Rhianna on MTV Hits, MTV ROCKS, MTV Base, MTV 1.6 GTi, MTV Ghia, MTV sweet n sour pork balls with special fried rice, MTV I name this ship Guetta and god bless all who sale in her


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (May 9, 2012)

rainbowbrite said:


> the pentatonic scale--i think kirk hammet has depleted all reserves of pentatonic scales along with his wah abuse.



Don't worry brother I got that covered. An hour of listening to my playing and you'd be sick of it all over again


----------



## lucasreis (May 9, 2012)

Louis Cypher said:


> I would lay a lot of blame on MTV for the state of things now, Metal made MTV what it is in the 80's/early 90's but then it sh2t on it in return.... how the fucking jesus christ can you have a channel called Music Television and there be NO FUCKING MUSIC ON IT?!?!?!?!? Nothing but fucking Kim Kardashian's fat arse!



I agree a 100% with your statement. MTV was all about rock/metal when I was a kid. And it did introduce me to a lot of good music.


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## Louis Cypher (May 9, 2012)

lucasreis said:


> I agree a 100% with your statement. MTV was all about rock/metal when I was a kid. And it did introduce me to a lot of good music.



Same dude.... I actually remember as a kid MTV Uk Headbangers Ball.... with Vanessa Warwick, Sunday nght show on for 3 hours.... *3 hours of metal*!!! The amount of music I brought and got in to because of that show.... Now, you got repeats on MTV Rock of Zane Lowe's top 100 rock bands you shoudl listen to before you die, ever..... yawn....


----------



## lucasreis (May 9, 2012)

Louis Cypher said:


> Same dude.... I actually remember as a kid MTV Uk Headbangers Ball.... with Vanessa Warwick, Sunday nght show on for 3 hours.... *3 hours of metal*!!! The amount of music I brought and got in to because of that show.... Now, you got repeats on MTV Rock of Zane Lowe's top 100 rock bands you shoudl listen to before you die, ever..... yawn....



Yeah, exactly. Here we had a national version of Headbangers Ball which was called Furia Metal, it had at least 2 hours. I got into bands like Cannibal Corpse, Gorefest, Dismember, Morbid Angel, King Diamond, Mercyful Fate, Carcass and several others by watching that show. Every week I would wait for it and watch it waiting for new bands videos, it was awesome. 

I remember when I got cable and I had access to MTV Latino as well, at that time, I had Furia Metal and also Headbangers, which was Latin MTV's Headbangers Ball, and it also had 2+ hours of videos. That time was awesome... I loved watching these shows. Too bad kids are getting the short end of the stick now when it comes to MTV and shows like that


----------



## drmosh (May 9, 2012)

Louis Cypher said:


> Same dude.... I actually remember as a kid MTV Uk Headbangers Ball.... with Vanessa Warwick, Sunday nght show on for 3 hours.... *3 hours of metal*!!! The amount of music I brought and got in to because of that show.... Now, you got repeats on MTV Rock of Zane Lowe's top 100 rock bands you shoudl listen to before you die, ever..... yawn....



I still have hours of that show on old VHS tapes. loved it


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## Louis Cypher (May 9, 2012)

drmosh said:


> I still have hours of that show on old VHS tapes. loved it



LOL!! Me too. Don't have a Video player though.... LOL!


----------



## oompa (May 9, 2012)

fps said:


> Careful what you wish for. *Without metal bands that are able to appeal to large groups of people the whole genre will die entirely*- the best metal bands will never be heard of outside their hometowns. If there is no Linkin Park, no In Flames, then there are no support slots on gigs with a guaranteed audience, no festivals for new bands to go below them on the bill and make names for themselves, *eventually everyone stops even trying to be in a metal band because the best, most musical of them will have grown up listening to and getting into other music. *
> 
> Second of all, there are plenty of music fans around, Linkin Park don't steal fans from other bands that sound nothing like them, rather they have a sound and were promoted in a way that drew people to them, because they liked what they heard. If big metal bands go away it doesn't make some obscure tech-death band bigger as a result. It just means fewer people ever hear a distorted guitar.
> 
> *In fashion? Metal is dying outside internet forums, due to stolen music and low gig attendance. Fact.*



Oh. No no  the genre started out, got more popular and already had a decent fan base before it went commercial  if it would die with 'pop metal' bands disappearing then how did it live and expand for 20 years before 'pop metal' bands even showed up?

I don't think we'll lose one single interesting musician if these bands lost most of their ground, and I was clear it was not about where fans would go, there are different types of fans who like 'pop metal' bands and the more musically oriented metal bands, these fans never switched teams but the producers and promoters did when pop culture decided to ravage metal music for a decade or two, which is perfectly natural.

And you don't have to worry about metal dying outside of internet forums due to stolen music and low gig attendance. It is no fact  Linkin Park who are what I call 'pop metal' and they're on a time limit, they will die out. But if they dissappear, bands like Meshuggah would pull as big of a crowd today as Slayer did back in the early 90's, and Spawn of Possession will still draw the same crowd as Cynic did back then too. If anything, the 'pop metal' bands contribute to harming good music imo 

What you worry about is the same thing that pop producers worry about: File Sharing hurts money! I mean music! ..because their music is on a time limit. No one cares about 5 year old J-Lo songs. They have months to sell then they're out, and when people download it they lose money, because that's how that industry works, it expires like fresh fruit and a few years later no one cares. But only money and possibly economical ideals are hurt, no decent music is harmed. Decent music is timeless.

We might lose a whole generation of new 'pop metal' bands and from one perspective metal might be decimated but it's in the eye of the beholder and to me we're losing pop bands not metal bands so in that sense I don't really see any loss 




lucasreis said:


> I would kill to live in a place where Metal is sort of popular.
> 
> Come live in Brazil for 2 months and you'll be begging to go back to Sweden. Even the regular rock radios are not even existent here, the metalheads here are a bunch of assholes who only listen to "traditional" stuff, they stopped listneing to metal at Iron Maiden, and they think everything sucks. Talk about being pop-elitists, if that's even possible.
> 
> ...



I can't speak for Brazil (obviously) but maybe you had a boom in the early 90's thanks to Sepultura owning so much face?  I agree we need gateway music but these pop metal bands are false prophets imo. 

People can and will listen to Black Sabbath, Scorpions, Iron Maiden etc. and work their way from there, because that music is still kick ass and always will be.

Then I have little idea what drives fashion and pop culture besides money and who knows why it is the way it is right now, there might be an all-time low in Brazil when it comes to decent rock or metal but that might also be a reaction to this and that in trends, who knows  I just hope that pop decides to go profit on some other small genre next and leave metal alone and maybe the reason kids just listen to Kesha and David Guetta nowadays is because the pop industry got even better at promoting shit music with no musical value and dominating the supply of sound to kids to make money themselves in the end, I don't know. The dear Steven Wilson (Porcupine Tree) sums it up pretty well in his song The Sound of Muzak: 

_Hear the sound of music drifting in the aisles
Elevator prozac stretching on for miles
The music of the future will not entertain
It's only meant to repress and neutralise your brain

(bridge) Soul gets squeezed out, edges get blunt
Demographic, gives what you want

(chorus) One of the wonders of the world is going down, it's going down I know
It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares, no-one cares enough 

Now the sound of music comes in silver pills
Engineered to suit you building cheaper thrills
The music of rebellion makes you wanna rage
But it's made by millionaires who are nearly twice your age

(repeat bridge and chorus)_

Nah I don't know guys but back to my initial comment and staying on topic, I think these pop bands will die out, and I don't mind, I see them as false prophets and I think that producers, and record companies might prefer to sign them over more interesting bands because they're in fashion and will sell, but again these are all just my opinions  I wish to offend no one.


----------



## lucasreis (May 9, 2012)

oompa said:


> Oh. No no  the genre started out, got more popular and already had a decent fan base before it went commercial  if it would die with 'pop metal' bands disappearing then how did it live and expand for 20 years before 'pop metal' bands even showed up?
> 
> I don't think we'll lose one single interesting musician if these bands lost most of their ground, and I was clear it was not about where fans would go, there are different types of fans who like 'pop metal' bands and the more musically oriented metal bands, these fans never switched teams but the producers and promoters did when pop culture decided to ravage metal music for a decade or two, which is perfectly natural.
> 
> ...



The problem is that, here in Brazil, most "metalheads" are stuck in the past, they will only listen to Iron, Scorpions, AC/DC, Sabbath, etc, and bitch about new stuff because they don't really have any kind of media outlets streaming new stuff and most of them are lazy to find out... and that makes me sad, at least when we had our version of Headbangers Ball, people were eager to find out more about this kind of music.

Rock/Metal people here are divided into nostalgic Metal fans, nostalgic Rock fans, and Pseudo-Indie-Rock-Bullshit fans, with a small, real small, amount of people listening to different stuff. And it makes me really, really sad. I wish there was more people listening to metal, even if it's faux and whatnot, it would be surely better than seeing everyone going bonkers about David Guetta... 

ps: About Sepultura... yeah, Sepultura made a lot of people get interested in Metal in the 90's and they were a huge influence for me as well. They proved that it was possible to make it, to be relevant, even with scarse resources.


----------



## Don Vito (May 9, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Atheist - "Enthralled In Essence"... DAT INTRO
> 
> Sounds like 15 bulldozers rolling over angry elephants.



Also, 2:00

and, 3:45


----------



## All_¥our_Bass (May 9, 2012)

ESP_ said:


> Riffs using pinch harmonics and still sounding good, and exception is Huge Hammers.


Malignancy.


----------



## linchpin (May 9, 2012)

lucasreis said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> I dreamed a lot about it, they were heroes to me when I was growing up, some of them lived in the same city I live, at that time.
> 
> But fuck it, it ain't gonna happen anyway.


Don't worry mate, it's for the best... good things are happening in that camp at the moment.


----------



## datalore (May 9, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> Dude, I know a lot of people from Eastern Europe and the "10 years behind" is an arrogant and common misconception based on ignorance. Did you know Romania invented insuline, for example? If they were 10 years behind that wouldnt have happened.
> 
> Just because their Economies arent doing too hot after years of Stalin fucking up everything they once had doesnt mean the people are stuck in early 2000.



Science is one thing, and culture is another.


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## JaeSwift (May 9, 2012)

datalore said:


> Science is one thing, and culture is another.



Yet in neither are they 10 years behind.


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## JazzandMetal (May 9, 2012)

Very interesting discussion. 

I agree with troyguitar about the dying out of singing. Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, James Labrie and even some Metallica and thousands of other bands are amazing without the growling. I have come to like some of it when they use it well such as Opeth Arch Enemy, and others, but why does every new band have to scream? 

Just my .02.


EDIT: I don't know if this counts as "new," but Opeth does the most crushing songs in standard tuning. Check out "Her Apparent" or "Deliverance."


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## Demiurge (May 9, 2012)

MTV was mentioned. I have two words that prove that they are still cultural "king makers" and that maybe it's not a terrible thing that power is no longer applied to music: Jersey Shore.


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 9, 2012)

JazzandMetal said:


> Very interesting discussion.
> 
> I agree with troyguitar about the dying out of singing. Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, James Labrie and even some Metallica and thousands of other bands are amazing without the growling. I have come to like some of it when they use it well such as Opeth Arch Enemy, and others, but why does every new band have to scream?
> 
> ...


Also, "Wreath" (don't know if it's standard but they don't ever tune lower than D)


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## Gabe_LTD (May 9, 2012)

JazzandMetal said:


> , but why does every new band have to scream?


Idk maybe you're just not listening to the right bands. there are tons of new bands that don't scream, we call those bands hard rock.  




but in all seriousness I do agree with your statement, on the otherhand though...I love screaming...but but in the other other hand I love clean vocals.



JazzandMetal said:


> Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, James Labrie and even some Metallica and thousands of other bands are amazing without the growling


.
metal vocals are progressing towards a harsher vocal sound,but can you can blame the new metal bands?
thousands of bands before the 2000's used mainly singing, 

and to be fair harsher vocals sound pretty damn good over distorted guitar.

But to each is own !


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## All_¥our_Bass (May 9, 2012)

I don't seem to see many bands these days user higher pitched growls/lower screams like in heavier thrash/early death metal. A la Chuck Schuldiner.

Also it seems raw tones/production seem on the decline. I'm not saying I don't like good production, but sometimes 'dirty' production just... works better than the 'clean' kind.
Wormed - Tunnel of Ions - YouTube

At the extreme end of dirty/raw/'bad' but works wonderfully for the style.
Burzum - Dunkelheit - YouTube


----------



## pvtcornflower (May 9, 2012)

cronux said:


> Low strapped guitars
> 
> (at least semi-low)
> 
> all i see nowadays is highly strapped guitars, GQ lookin' guys and head bobbing



You know, it's funny you mention this. I personally wear my guitar higher, but that's also because I play ERGs and an 8 string hanging low is really hard to play, especially anything technical. Me and a buddy of mine for one of our songs thought it really funny to mock playing super low one show and we put our guitars as low as our straps would allow, opened our stance and just started head banging as hard as we could during one of our breakdowns. Anyway, I digress, IMHO playing higher makes doing anything on the instrument easier. I also come from a jazz-ish background where that was the norm. I was always quite perplexed when I saw people wearing/playing their guitars as low as possible as if that made their sound better. Again, IMHO it does nothing but hurt your wrist.


----------



## LamaSabachthani (May 9, 2012)

rainbowbrite said:


> the pentatonic scale--i think kirk hammet has depleted all reserves of pentatonic scales along with his wah abuse.



to be perfectly honest, as much as it sounds sooooo much 'the same', it still never gets old listening to Justice, Master, Lightning, or Kill em all... Love love love those albums. Perhaps its a nostalgia thing for me as well since I basically learned to play guitar to metallica  must have played all of their 80s songs numerous, numerous times when I was in my younger teens


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (May 9, 2012)

linchpin said:


> A Sepultura reunion... glad people have moving on with their lives and stopped dreaming.


 
While nice, there's no need considering the Cavalera Conspiracy rocks harder than Kairos, and I liked Kairos.


----------



## JazzandMetal (May 9, 2012)

I just feel like I want to like Born of Osiris, Veil of Maya, Meshuggah, In Flames, and countless other bands but am turned off completely by the vocals. Everybody has the right to make their music the way they want, but I feel singing and the newer styles of metal would be amazing. 

Anyway, I am going to stop complaining, get an eight string, practice singing, and make some nice metal.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (May 9, 2012)

Umm did you guys miss the whole djent fad? Tesseract, Skyharbour, Corelia, etc.. incorporate some steller singing.


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## Valennic (May 9, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Umm did you guys miss the whole djent fad? Tesseract, Skyharbour, Corelia, etc.. incorporate some steller singing.



Don't you dare call Corelia djent. 

I think hardcore as a genre is nearly dead. There are a few bands clinging to it, hoping to make it, but really there's just no progression happening there. Makes me feel bad because my buddy's in a hardcore band, and he has dreams of making it big. Poor deluded guy


----------



## BornToLooze (May 10, 2012)

pvtcornflower said:


> Anyway, I digress, IMHO playing higher makes doing anything on the instrument easier. I also come from a jazz-ish background where that was the norm. I was always quite perplexed when I saw people wearing/playing their guitars as low as possible as if that made their sound better. Again, IMHO it does nothing but hurt your wrist.



I don't get how people can play with their guitars high, I have to have mine at least at waist level or my arm will start to cramp and my wrist hurts when I play fast.


----------



## cronux (May 10, 2012)

BornToLooze said:


> I don't get how people can play with their guitars high, I have to have mine at least at waist level or my arm will start to cramp and my wrist hurts when I play fast.



i was thinking somewhat this high 
(ion dissonance guitar player, love the band btw  )

http://www.metalnews.de/images/konzerte/konzert_contentpic_711384322.jpg



datalore said:


> Science is one thing, and culture is another.



jep, again with the insulin - i've kinda missed it 

but the following statement "people from Eastern Europe and the "10 years behind"" is kinda true... I'm from Croatia... talk about being left behind 

ERG's, 7strings, drop tunings, digital amps and that sort of "alien" stuff is still taboo... djent "arrived" at my country about a year ago - by arrived I mean people started to play it (maby 2 bands)

but the thing that pisses me off is seeing bands do some sort of At The Gates/In Flames cross-breed and they are praised for being "new, hip, great" etc. 

you try something different and people think you're silly


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## Stealthdjentstic (May 10, 2012)

Valennic said:


> Don't you dare call Corelia djent.
> 
> I think hardcore as a genre is nearly dead. There are a few bands clinging to it, hoping to make it, but really there's just no progression happening there. Makes me feel bad because my buddy's in a hardcore band, and he has dreams of making it big. Poor deluded guy



Sikth influence not big enough?


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (May 10, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Metal was popular where you lived? Literally, two other kids in my high school grad class listened to metal.


i went to high school in a back woods, hillbilly, hick of a town in texas with a population of 395. there were about about 7 of us that listened to "real metal"...me, my 2 brothers and a couple friends who were forced to listen to it cause they rode with me in my car to school 




Stealthdjentstic said:


> Umm did you guys miss the whole djent fad? Tesseract, Skyharbour, Corelia, etc.. incorporate some steller singing.


what is djent? find out...

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/general-music-discussion/197429-what-djent.html#post3002609


----------



## Severance (May 10, 2012)

According to Akerfeldt and Keene. God is dead.


----------



## Jakke (May 10, 2012)

^It was Nietzsche who said it originally, I believe it was at least..


----------



## Icecold (May 10, 2012)

Severance said:


> According to Akerfeldt and Keene. God is dead.




baybuh!


----------



## Quitty (May 10, 2012)

Jakke said:


> ^It was Nietzsche who said it originally, I believe it was at least..



It sure was.
Then again, god did end up having the final word on that subject.


----------



## fps (May 10, 2012)

oompa said:


> Oh. No no  the genre started out, got more popular and already had a decent fan base before it went commercial  if it would die with 'pop metal' bands disappearing then how did it live and expand for 20 years before 'pop metal' bands even showed up?
> 
> I don't think we'll lose one single interesting musician if these bands lost most of their ground, and I was clear it was not about where fans would go, there are different types of fans who like 'pop metal' bands and the more musically oriented metal bands, these fans never switched teams but the producers and promoters did when pop culture decided to ravage metal music for a decade or two, which is perfectly natural.
> 
> ...



I'm afraid your analysis is flawed, metal grew solidly because it was a new genre that people latched on to, as is the case with anything that is a new sound and a backlash against the previous generation's main listening habits. Metal is old hat now. The idea that Meshuggah would draw the same crowd numbers as Slayer in the early 90s, I just assume you're joking or very young, because there is no basis for that statement whatsoever. Honestly, what is your reasoning? File-sharing does hurt music. If bands can't make money playing they won't do it, and since most bands I like took some time to find their sound that means their best albums will never be released. And no, all these start-up bands in basements with Superior Drummer are not going to fill the void, they're almost entirely rubbish. 

Please explain what you mean by producers and promoters choosing to ravage metal for a decade or two. It's an enormous sweeping statement which I can't find any meaning in. You want people to come to your shows as a band? Of course. You need good production on your albums and promotion on your gigs to make that happen? Of course. Even a band like, say, Suffocation, needs massive amounts of attention from a label to get people to hear about their shows and albums. 

Which two decades precisely are you referring to as a generation ransacked by pop producers? And are you saying there was no underground music in this time? Are you saying underground music was harmed by there being bands out there that were popular, and if so, why do you think that? It doesn't make any sense to me, what on earth makes you assume that someone who likes Linkin Park would like Meshuggah? And honestly even Slayer are far more accessible musically than Meshuggah. A very strange comparison to make, early 90s Slayer and Meshuggah, I don't see the point in it.


----------



## lurgar (May 10, 2012)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> what is djent?




Bulb, don't hurt me no more...


----------



## BuckarooBanzai (May 10, 2012)

Three years ago I would have held my Steinberger proudly above my head and told you "headless guitars," but now they're cool again. Thanks, Tosin and Misha . Guitar hipster status revoked. Now I need to find an aluminum-neck Kramer...


----------



## ArrowHead (May 10, 2012)

Quitty said:


> It sure was.
> Then again, god did end up having the final word on that subject.



"Nietzsche is dead" - God


----------



## Gabe_LTD (May 10, 2012)

*Damn kids and their new trends, I can't even hear boogie woogie blues, rockabilly , and some good old time swing on the radio anymore. *









Valennic said:


> I think hardcore as a genre is nearly dead. There are a few bands clinging to it, hoping to make it, but really there's just no progression happening there. Makes me feel bad because my buddy's in a hardcore band, and he has dreams of making it big. Poor deluded guy



I Partially agree with this statement.
straight up hardcore has been dying for a while now...
on the other hand post hardcore is pretty damn big.




BornToLooze said:


> I don't get how people can play with their guitars high, I have to have mine at least at waist level or my arm will start to cramp and my wrist hurts when I play fast.



I never had that problem  I love playing my guitar high 
people usually play their guitar highs for * extreme * comfort 
And don't care about not looking " bad ass" 
But to each is own!


----------



## Jakke (May 10, 2012)

And I have my guitar a bit lower, because it is most comfortable to me. Comfort is subjective gais!


----------



## Gabe_LTD (May 10, 2012)

Jakke said:


> And I have my guitar a bit lower, because it is most comfortable to me. Comfort is subjective gais!



I can't argue with that


----------



## Jakke (May 10, 2012)

Gabe_LTD said:


> I can't argue with that


----------



## oompa (May 10, 2012)

fps said:


> I'm afraid your analysis is flawed, metal grew solidly because it was a new genre that people latched on to, as is the case with anything that is a new sound and a backlash against the previous generation's main listening habits. Metal is old hat now. The idea that Meshuggah would draw the same crowd numbers as Slayer in the early 90s, I just assume you're joking or very young, because there is no basis for that statement whatsoever. Honestly, what is your reasoning? File-sharing does hurt music. If bands can't make money playing they won't do it, and since most bands I like took some time to find their sound that means their best albums will never be released. And no, all these start-up bands in basements with Superior Drummer are not going to fill the void, they're almost entirely rubbish.
> 
> Please explain what you mean by producers and promoters choosing to ravage metal for a decade or two. It's an enormous sweeping statement which I can't find any meaning in. You want people to come to your shows as a band? Of course. You need good production on your albums and promotion on your gigs to make that happen? Of course. Even a band like, say, Suffocation, needs massive amounts of attention from a label to get people to hear about their shows and albums.
> 
> Which two decades precisely are you referring to as a generation ransacked by pop producers? And are you saying there was no underground music in this time? Are you saying underground music was harmed by there being bands out there that were popular, and if so, why do you think that? It doesn't make any sense to me, what on earth makes you assume that someone who likes Linkin Park would like Meshuggah? And honestly even Slayer are far more accessible musically than Meshuggah. A very strange comparison to make, early 90s Slayer and Meshuggah, I don't see the point in it.



I'm turning 30 soon 

No metal didn't grow cus it was "new", it was an extension of punk, which came from rock, it was refined punk with talented musicians. Punk already did most of the lashing in the late 70's, then in the early 80's metal carried on a bit more polished. If you have heard any of Metallica or Slayers members talking early influences (or listened to their tribute covers) you'll notice. You'll also notice how most of the metal bands that got noticed early on wrote much of their materials on things like war, drug abuse, death penalties, criticizing the legal system, the juridical system etc just like punk.

-Some- music is hurt by file sharing but I am fairly sure very few genres or bands I listen to get hurt by it and I am very certain many of them benefit greatly from it, and the way I see it mainly pop music is hurt by file sharing since it is on a time limit. It was all said in my previous posts which you seemed to not have read through at all. I didn't say Meshuggah and Linkin Park draw the same crowd, rather the opposite. I say many labels prefer bands that'll make them millions so they grab these kids that do housebroke pop metal, promote it as hell and make it fashion and get many times the money invested right back, the bands themselves get rich and everybody wins.. except those who want to listen to productive interesting music. They'd rather have seen them pick up many underground bands with interesting things going for them, it's about taste and I'd prefer the second option, it is to my liking. My personal taste. I wrote that several times if you read it properly. There are even plenty of quotes from great musicians who say things like "tape trading has been around since forever anyway, if you want to buy my album good for me, if you just spread the music it doesn't bother me much" and similar statements if you didn't know. Internet file sharing most likely helped a bunch of the bands I listen to noticed enough to eventually get a brave label to sign them.

You say if bands can't make money playing they won't do it, that is true to some extent, maybe most bands you listen to would quit playing if they didn't make money from it which was obviously their ultimate goal. Then some bands do not need to sell as much as possible but they would rather choose to have their music spread as much as possible while making enough for a living and enjoying what they do. Musicians with a message for example. They probably love that people spread their stuff on the internet. I don't know if you are familiar with musicians that have any message or so but nvm, in the end it is all about taste, Warner Bros signing Linkin Park might benefit you, if they didn't and signed a thousand "basement bands" out of which 50 are good and 2-3 make it big enough for WB to make their money back, good for me probably. That is my taste. 

I think you should read through my posts again if my arguments are still unclear to you, and remember the main topic which we should try to stay on:

This thread is about what you think will disappear and I say djent, (-core to some extent) and pop metal will probably disappear because they are fads and the latter was all about making money in the first place and the cow has been milked, which is probably good for me, less competition with labels and promoters. -Because of my taste- for the 50th or so time  I feel this is getting too much off-topic and with respect to the OP we should try to stay on topic best we can, or the gods/mods will show up


----------



## fps (May 10, 2012)

oompa said:


> I'm turning 30 soon
> 
> No metal didn't grow cus it was "new", it was an extension of punk, which came from rock, it was refined punk with talented musicians. Punk already did most of the lashing in the late 70's, then in the early 80's metal carried on a bit more polished. If you have heard any of Metallica or Slayers members talking early influences (or listened to their tribute covers) you'll notice. You'll also notice how most of the metal bands that got noticed early on wrote much of their materials on things like war, drug abuse, death penalties, criticizing the legal system, the juridical system etc just like punk.
> 
> ...



I did read your posts, perhaps there are faults on both sides, with the writer expressing himself as well as the reader reading, but I appreciate that we can have a discussion about this, most people who disagree with an opinion would have told me to fuck myself. 

Your assumption that I enjoy the music I am defending is wide of the mark, my point is that most bands will never make their best music at all if there is no financial reward at all in sticking at it. And that does not elicit a *let them break up then* attitude from me, it makes me ask how they could be supported in order to make the music that would benefit me by being something no-one else could write. 

I am no Linkin Park fan, let's just get that straight. But what I don't understand is why you think the labels should be involved in anything apart from trying to run a profitable business. One more, how does Linkin Park making a lot of money on a major label make any difference to your ability to listen to interesting underground music? That label wouldn't have signed the bands you like anyway, nor had it miraculously done so would it promote them. If it decides to promote them at all, another miracle, it will use some of the money it has made off the big bands it has that are profitable, like Linking Park, or Nickelback at Roadrunner. You have missed the point- they sign these big bands and that money they make from them is the money they USE to promote smaller bands. If they sign 50 bands and only make their money back on 2-3 of them, well, they're making a loss aren't they. And with the closure of Roadrunner in Europe it would appear they tried investing in a variety of bands, and it failed. And now those bands, some of which have made it to the point where they can do this for a living, at the expense of getting real world skills that might stand them in good stead in another field, find themselves facing an uncertain future re. funding. 

Most of the musicians I hear who have a message, the message is so simplistic and dumbed down there's no point them saying it. Punk on my side of the pond (don't know much about American punk) is the archetypal moron movement to me. You see John Lydon doing butter adverts and think *what difference did he make apart from getting his bank balance nicely in the black*. Yes, metal came from punk, literally everyone on this forum knows that, but it was still punk taken further, to extremes, faster, more aggressive, with solos, far greater musical creativity, it was new! 

Perhaps yes some bands you like have been signed on the basis of free internet file sharing. But if they wanted it to be like that, it should be their decision to put their music up for free. It is, after all, their material, and I think it shows respect to the artist to let them decide how they want to market it. Famous musicians will of course say they don't mind, because they don't want to appear corporate, and because they are big enough that they have already made their money. After the Metallica-Napster debacle, any other stance is virtually impossible. 

The trend that's going to die out from all this? Metal bands that make a living by playing metal. If the labels die and it just becomes a direct band-fan interaction, I'm cool with that, because the bands will keep all the money they get from their sales so even they sell 20% of what they would have done before they'll probably get the same money. But within a label system, big popular bands are utterly vital and what's more they act as a gateway into better and deeper musical experiences.


----------



## oompa (May 10, 2012)

fps said:


> I did read your posts, perhaps there are faults on both sides, with the writer expressing himself as well as the reader reading, but I appreciate that we can have a discussion about this, most people who disagree with an opinion would have told me to fuck myself.
> 
> Your assumption that I enjoy the music I am defending is wide of the mark, my point is that most bands will never make their best music at all if there is no financial reward at all in sticking at it. And that does not elicit a *let them break up then* attitude from me, it makes me ask how they could be supported in order to make the music that would benefit me by being something no-one else could write.
> 
> ...



Oh screw people who can't argue like gentlemen 

Yeah no I just think that big labels are the ones who are having a problem with file sharing in general. RR closing sucks I agree. I do however think that bands still make money playing live, not necessarily by selling records. If they get popular on the internet, they draw crowds playing which they wouldn't without modern tape-trading.

Internet has done wonders for many promoting many artists, like youtube for example, where bands like Megadeth found their current guitarist (Broderick) and Decapitated their current drummer (Lechner), ask Mischa on here or Tosin what music spread on the internet has done for them for example. It is all not bad. None of those are particularly famous or rich though  even though I heard Tosin say he charges $60 for an hour lessions  

Anyway I've written a book about an off-topic thing here by now, let's agree to agree on some things and disagree on others


----------



## fps (May 10, 2012)

oompa said:


> Oh screw people who can't argue like gentlemen
> 
> Yeah no I just think that big labels are the ones who are having a problem with file sharing in general. RR closing sucks I agree. I do however think that bands still make money playing live, not necessarily by selling records. If they get popular on the internet, they draw crowds playing which they wouldn't without modern tape-trading.
> 
> ...



Absolutely, a pleasure.


----------



## samdaman87 (May 10, 2012)

Lol you guys are really making a book on this threads subject. Well I feel that music will always be music and there will always be a small percent of people listening to all types of music. If it works and makes you happy then keep listening to or playing that music, peace


----------



## DLG (May 11, 2012)

someone needs to resurrect yacht rock


----------



## Loomer (May 11, 2012)

DLG said:


> someone needs to resurrect yacht rock



This reminded of me of the sketch series "Yacht Rock" and I found myself lol'ing at pretty much nothing 

Holy shit, that series was so funny!

"Smooooth!"


----------



## petereanima (May 11, 2012)

As on almost every page there are 2-3 "hardcore is near dead" posts - I would love to hear what you guys consider "hardcore" and what makes you think it is dying?!


----------



## linchpin (May 11, 2012)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> While nice, there's no need considering the Cavalera Conspiracy rocks harder than Kairos, and I liked Kairos.


Difference is that i can tell each song apart in Kairos.


----------



## Ben.Last (May 11, 2012)

I'd say metal fans' ability to differentiate between "bad" and simply "something I don't like," but that's been dead for a while now.


----------



## in-pursuit (May 11, 2012)

Nah it's still going strong.


----------



## JaeSwift (May 11, 2012)

Almost forgot to thank the OP; this is a pretty good discussion thread.


----------



## TheBloodstained (May 11, 2012)

"Nothing is dead 'till it's burried! (...right Eclipse?)"

This thread sure did spawn some hate! 
It's fun to see how some people so desperately wants some genres to die! 

djent seems to be dying out slowly, sadly... I love that "genre" and have yet to find a bad djent act. Luckily djent will continue as progressive metal, so I guess only the term "djent" will die?


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## Ben.Last (May 11, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> This thread sure did spawn some hate!



Of course it did. What did you expect? Objectivity?


----------



## petereanima (May 11, 2012)

Lern2swim said:


> I'd say metal fans' ability to differentiate between "bad" and simply "something I don't like," but that's been dead for a while now.



This thread proves otherwise, unfortunately.


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## TheBloodstained (May 11, 2012)

Lern2swim said:


> Of course it did. What did you expect? Objectivity?


Unity? 

oh, btw... Pink Floyd! The music lives on but Pink Floyd as a band died when they split up. A lot of my favorite music was written by Pink Floyd and I'm really sad that I'll never be able to see them live!
Unfortunately I had my head burried far up my ass with techno back when they still were together, but I was also to young to appreciate their music back then 

I would really like to see David Gilmour live some day, but I guess his time is slowly running out too. He isn't exactly that young man which I will always remember him for anymore.


----------



## Demiurge (May 11, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> Luckily djent will continue as progressive metal, so I guess only the term "djent" will die?



I'll have to disagree. I don't think that djent is progressive. What exactly is progressive about it that it sets it apart from other genres?


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## TheBloodstained (May 11, 2012)

Demiurge said:


> I'll have to disagree. I don't think that djent is progressive. What exactly is progressive about it that it sets it apart from other genres?


I know next to nothing about genres... never really did care what genre the music i listened to was, and the only reason I know a fraction about some of the genres I know of is because I spend time on forums like this.

I've heard other people refer to djent as progressive metal, and that's why I assumed that it would be the correct term for what it was if it wasn't djent, you know? 

Let's call it metal then, shall we? 
I'm about fed up with this ongoing discussion about genres, when it becomes all about who is what and what who is not! 
It's all music - if you like it, listen to it... even if the genre is "industrial noisecore experimental progressive polka math speedcore acid folk synthcore upbeat jazz metal"! 

I think people are to obsessed with genres... and yes, I don't really know anything about genres, and I'm happy!


----------



## Triple-J (May 11, 2012)

fps said:


> Punk on my side of the pond (don't know much about American punk) is the archetypal moron movement to me. You see John Lydon doing butter adverts and think *what difference did he make apart from getting his bank balance nicely in the black*. Yes, metal came from punk, literally everyone on this forum knows that, but it was still punk taken further, to extremes, faster, more aggressive, with solos, far greater musical creativity, it was new!



As a fan of both genres I find Metal to be equally as moronic as punk at times but you are completely wrong about John Lydon/Rotten though as he used all the money earned from that ad to fund and book a Public Image Ltd UK/Euro tour with no record company backing whatsoever which is something I admire personally as there's a lot of artists (Ozzy for example) who have done similar ads for cash but continue to let the record company fund all their tours and recordings.


----------



## Demiurge (May 11, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> I've heard other people refer to djent as progressive metal, and that's why I assumed that it would be the correct term for what it was if it wasn't djent, you know?



I'm fine with djent- it's an effective onomatopoeia, utterly descriptive, and gives a nod to its origin. Puns with djent, however.... no, please, no.

I'm not the nomenclature police, but it seems that sticking "progressive" in front of something establishes a pretense of expansiveness and out-there-ness that, as I said before, just don't see it with djent.


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## postalrecon (May 11, 2012)

Metalcore bands that use auto-tuned vocals...not dead yet....but needs to die


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## TheBloodstained (May 11, 2012)

Demiurge said:


> I'm not the nomenclature police, but it seems that sticking "progressive" in front of something establishes a pretense of expansiveness and out-there-ness that, as I said before, just don't see it with djent.


If you ask me, then I'd say that an album like Uneven Structure's "Februus" would be progressive...


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## spawnofthesith (May 11, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> If you ask me, then I'd say that an album like Uneven Structure's "Februus" would be progressive...



I like to think of it like a venn diagram with the one circle being progressive, and one circle being djent. Uneven Structure would certainly fall into the middle portions as both prog and djent. A band like say.... Volumes however (and don't get my wrong, I love that band) would simply just be in the djent circle


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## fps (May 11, 2012)

Triple-J said:


> As a fan of both genres I find Metal to be equally as moronic as punk at times but you are completely wrong about John Lydon/Rotten though as he used all the money earned from that ad to fund and book a Public Image Ltd UK/Euro tour with no record company backing whatsoever which is something I admire personally as there's a lot of artists (Ozzy for example) who have done similar ads for cash but continue to let the record company fund all their tours and recordings.



Happy to be corrected, didn't know that. As for the most moronic, I guess in both genres there's a lot of dross to wade through to find bands that really mean it, and what they mean also comprises a coherent world view. I tend to enjoy my bands that steer utterly clear of politics, it's too deep a subject to address in lyrics, apart from in the broadest brushstrokes (sometimes effective).


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## Ben.Last (May 11, 2012)

postalrecon said:


> Metalcore bands that use auto-tuned vocals...not dead yet....but needs to die



So, in other words, you're completely failing to answer the actual question and, therefore, contributing dick all to the subject at hand. Cool.


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## oompa (May 11, 2012)

TheBloodstained said:


> If you ask me, then I'd say that an album like Uneven Structure's "Februus" would be progressive...



What do you think is progressive about them, a.k.a. what new "element" did they bring to the table? If you can answer it with a definite answer then it should be regarded as progressive.

I never heard them, I listened to a couple of songs on youtube from that album and for me they bring absolutely nothing new to the table, they (to me!) sound like about a thousand other djent bands in terms of composition, use of instruments, use of theory etc etc (don't know how they as a band sounded before this one though). So I personally wouldn't call them progressive at all in any field or way, but feel free to disagree  I know next to nothing about them 

I personally think Djent will die out, but progressive anything will never die out since it is sort of the opposite force of dying out


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## Ben.Last (May 11, 2012)

oompa said:


> What do you think is progressive about them, a.k.a. what new "element" did they bring to the table? If you can answer it with a definite answer then it should be regarded as progressive.
> 
> I never heard them, I listened to a couple of songs on youtube from that album and for me they bring absolutely nothing new to the table, they (to me!) sound like about a thousand other djent bands in terms of composition, use of instruments, use of theory etc etc (don't know how they as a band sounded before this one though). So I personally wouldn't call them progressive at all in any field or way, but feel free to disagree  I know next to nothing about them
> 
> I personally think Djent will die out, but progressive anything will never die out since it is sort of the opposite force of dying out



What did Dream Theater bring to the table that was new? Sure, they are amazing musicians, but did they really bring anything new aside from that? Is that all it takes? Is it, actually, just a completely arbitrary classification?


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## oompa (May 11, 2012)

Lern2swim said:


> What did Dream Theater bring to the table that was new? Sure, they are amazing musicians, but did they really bring anything new aside from that? Is that all it takes? Is it, actually, just a completely arbitrary classification?



Yes they were the first to bring what progressive rock bands did into metal. They basically invented metal-Rush


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## Stealthdjentstic (May 11, 2012)

Yeah what kind of question is that?


Sometimes I think about leaving this place -_-


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## ArtDecade (May 11, 2012)

Dream Theater are progressive metal. There may have been some ahead of them, but they refined the sound and popularized it. And, this is coming from someone that doesn't even care for their music!


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## flint757 (May 11, 2012)

Yes, but if by definition progressive is ever evolving what someone did in the past has no means in defining a band as progressive today. They may be I don't know I don't listen to them anymore.


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## Ben.Last (May 11, 2012)

Ok, so... arbitrary. Got it.


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## GuitaristOfHell (May 11, 2012)

Alice In Chains - Would? - YouTube
To me all the good shit is dead as a door knob. I can't form any bands anymore because no one blends with me  I want/have an authentic old school sound. I feel a generation or two late to be honest. All my favorite bands with the exception of Rammstein and Eluveitie are gone.

the old Guns N' Roses
Motely Crue
Corrosion of Conformity's old stuff 

I've also noticed EVERYONE drop tunes these days (as in Drop D, C ect..) I rarely see a standard tuning like Eb. ( Eluveitie is an exception they use B standard).

The only new song I really dig is this


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## Oxidation_Shed (May 12, 2012)

I don't know that simply doing something new or popularising a style would really be what makes a band progressive. I mean that would make Nirvana a prog band, or Turisas (I know they didn't invent folk metal but they refined and popularised it), or The Sex Pistols.
Ok, semantically, progressive bands should add something new but the use of the word tends to refer to the genre that people think of as progressive metal/rock which makes more sense. Maybe it's not the most appropriate name, but that's the name that stuck and I can't see it changing at this stage.

Back on topic though: tattoos or barbed wire rings around the bicep, thank God.


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## flint757 (May 12, 2012)

Honestly I always thought it was music that didn't have clearly defined sections and felt as if it went on forever like it is constantly progressing forward. I don't think genre pushing qualifies IMO. Bands like Rush, Yes and I suppose Dream Theater do fit that mold.


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 12, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> Almost forgot to thank the OP; this is a pretty good discussion thread.


haha...thank you man.

12 pages, 275 posts, over 6100 views in less than a week...

...427 likes give & 1 of those were for me 

this did seem to open up a can of worms...you can all start thanking me now  

no really guys, ive enjoyed the discussions...really interesting stuff. plus im learning about genres that i didn know existed


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## Meximelt (May 17, 2012)

Just for clarification, progressive as a prefix was initially used to explain the incorporation of more jazz elements into an already existing style i.e. progressive rock ala Yes, Pink Floyd. trying new things or sounds out other than jazz was usually refereed to as experimental.


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## in-pursuit (May 17, 2012)

I took lessons from a pretty formidable and reputable jazz player/teacher in Brisbane for a short time, he once made an off-hand comment to the effect of "before jazz had a widely recognised name attached to it, it was simply referred to as progressive playing". I always thought of the term progressive as being the same kind of mental approach taken by early jazz players being applied to a more rock oriented style of music. I'd tend to agree with Meximelts comment except for maybe the last part, I'm fairly certain that some jazz could also be considered to be quite experimental.


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## Meximelt (May 17, 2012)

Very true, the two are very easily used in the same place.


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## Meximelt (May 17, 2012)

oh yeah and i've read through this thread a min ago but i don't recall if someone said it, but one dying trend is being a basic style. Instead of being a rock band our metal band everyone has to be a sub genre, like post hardcore progressive polka.


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## TheBigGroove (May 17, 2012)

JaeSwift said:


> Did you know Romania invented insuline



A country invented this? amazing


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 18, 2012)

anyone still using gorilla snot?


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (May 18, 2012)

^ ha, drum tuning sticky material, great stuff!

+1 vote for the end of Dub step, although won't be able to laugh at people anymore trying to dance to the sound of an air raid siren.


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 18, 2012)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> ^ ha, drum tuning sticky material, great stuff!


so...its not dead? your still using it?


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## spawnofthesith (May 18, 2012)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> ^ ha, drum tuning sticky material, great stuff!
> 
> +1 vote for the end of Dub step, although won't be able to laugh at people anymore trying to dance to the sound of an air raid siren.



What guitar trend, style, or brand is dubstep?


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## makeitreign (May 18, 2012)

spawnofthesith said:


> What guitar trend, style, or brand is dubstep?



Ask SPIN.


----------



## BornToLooze (May 19, 2012)

spawnofthesith said:


> What guitar trend, style, or brand is dubstep?



EDIT: Better video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtQfqKOxwOI


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 20, 2012)

according to a friend that owns an axe fx - roadies

no one needed to lug around all that stage equipment...


----------



## tacotiklah (May 20, 2012)

I hate breakdowns in general, but even I can't deny that some bands do it REALLY fucking well. I also as a rule, tend to hate bands that open their songs with a breakdown, but again there is always a few bands that will come out of nowhere and devastate this belief of mine. Case in point:



We need more bands that can take the whole D5 chord chugging and make it a cohesive, yet heavy part of a song like these guys.


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 21, 2012)

^ i enjoy good break downs myself...but they are a little overdone now-a-days.


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 28, 2012)

i used to see it more around here, but are ppl still doing the swirl dipped paint finishes?

im seeing a lot of builds focused on wood grains...


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 3, 2012)

is anyone still using a hand-held tuner these days?


----------



## wakjob (Jun 3, 2012)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> is anyone still using a hand-held tuner these days?



Nope. Ben sticking to my pitch pipe.


----------



## Jakke (Jun 3, 2012)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> is anyone still using a hand-held tuner these days?



Occasionally.


----------



## Don Vito (Jun 3, 2012)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> is anyone still using a hand-held tuner these days?



Yep

I've been using since the same one since I first started playing.

It's been to hell and back, but still works quite well.


----------



## Nicki (Jun 3, 2012)

Bigfan said:


> Well, excluding Power metal and much of Prog and Folk Metal (And whatever the fuck Melodic Metal is, I guess.)



This is proper Melodic Metal:



And this is Symphonic Metal:



Neither are dying trends, but they're not nearly popular enough.


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## the hittmann (Jun 3, 2012)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> ^ ha, drum tuning sticky material, great stuff!
> 
> +1 vote for the end of Dub step, although won't be able to laugh at people anymore trying to dance to the sound of an air raid siren.



Lmao, air raid siren. So true, but I don't see it dying soon. It's still all the rage where I live(big college town).


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## -42- (Jun 4, 2012)

Strummed chords. They will never die outright, but they have certainly faded from the forefront of mainstream rock.


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## flint757 (Jun 4, 2012)

^^^That's because people got lazy. I blame power chords. Jazz will keep that train rolling as well as country music (although not as much as it used to be) at the very least.


----------



## USMarine75 (Jun 4, 2012)

pink freud said:


> Almost 7 billion people on this world, no genre is dead then.


 
Genres don't die... they go to Japan. 







[I can't wait for J-djent to hit big in 2020 ]


----------



## Mega-Mads (Jun 4, 2012)

Arrogant pricks!


----------



## USMarine75 (Jun 4, 2012)

oompa said:


> Yes they were the first to bring what progressive rock bands did into metal. They basically invented metal-Rush


 
I wouldn't say they were the... [cough]... first... [ahem]...


----------



## Loomer (Jun 4, 2012)

MadsterOfMurder said:


> Arrogant pricks!



You called!?


----------



## Ben.Last (Jun 4, 2012)

flint757 said:


> ^^^That's because people got lazy. I blame power chords.



It's not so much laziness as it is that full chords and the level of gain in modern metal don't exactly play well together.


----------



## JazzandMetal (Jun 4, 2012)

Lern2swim said:


> It's not so much laziness as it is that full chords and the level of gain in modern metal don't exactly play well together.



He said rock. I agree. The old stuff like Dire Straights, Van Halen, and pretty much anything from the 60s to early 80s had full chords, triads, the whole nine yards. Now not so much.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jun 4, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> Genres don't die... they go to Japan.
> 
> [I can't wait for J-djent to hit big in 2020 ]



That's where I need to go...


----------



## ittoa666 (Jun 4, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> Genres don't die... they go to Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Djapanese


----------



## Blasphemer (Jun 4, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> Genres don't die... they go to Japan.



This is the best thing I've heard in a long time


----------



## SenorDingDong (Jun 4, 2012)

oompa said:


> Yes they were the first to bring what progressive rock bands did into metal. They basically invented metal-Rush









Fates Warning:

_Night on Bröcken_ - 1984
_The Spectre Within_ - 1985
_Awaken the Guardian_ - 1986
_No Exit_ - 1988
_Perfect Symmetry_ - 1989



Queensryche:

_Queensrÿche_ - 1982
_The Warning_ - 1984
_Rage for Order_ - 1986
_Operation: Mindcrime_ - 1988



_Sirens_ - 1983
_The Dungeons Are Calling_ - 1984
_Power of the Night_ - 1985
_Fight for the Rock_ - 1986
_Hall of the Mountain King_ - 1987
_Gutter Ballet_ - 1989



Psychotic Waltz:

_Aslan_ (as Aslan) - 1986
_Psychotic Waltz _- 1988



Sieges Even:


_Life Cycle_ (1988)


Dream Theater:

_When Dream and Day Unite_ - 1989

To make it fair, I'll add:
_Majesty Demos_ - 1985-86


But to even it up, I'll add these from Fates Warning:

Demo 1983 (1983)
Misfit Demo (1983)
Demo 1984 (1984)
Dickie Demo (1985)




And these from Sieges Even:

Demo (1983, as Sodom)
Demo '86 (1986)
Demo '87 (1987)
Repression & Resistance (1988)


And, of course, Watchtower:

Energetic Disassembly (1985)
Control and Resistance (1989)




oompa said:


> Yes they were the first to bring what progressive rock bands did into metal. They basically invented metal-Rush




Now maybe you'll see why I'm left scratching my head at the premise of DT _inventing_ progressive metal. Especially seeing as they chose the vocalist of Majesty because they had heard him singing Queenryche's _Queen of the Reich_.


----------



## flint757 (Jun 4, 2012)

Lern2swim said:


> It's not so much laziness as it is that full chords and the level of gain in modern metal don't exactly play well together.



For metal yes I kind of agree (I don't think it is impossible), but chords have been disappearing from genres that aren't as heavily distorted or distorted at all, that was what i was referring too.

Either way they will remain at the very least in jazz and some blues.


----------



## ZXIIIT (Jun 4, 2012)

Guitar brand related, has anyone heard anything about Fernandez lately? I saw a video of Munky from KoRn using a Fernandez 7 string when Head re-joined them on stage a fe weeks ago, not sure if it was a one time thing using that Fernandez since Head was using Munky's 7 string, I'm sure Munky had more Ibanez 7 strings backstage, but why he chose to use a Fernandez is interesting.


----------



## Ben.Last (Jun 4, 2012)

flint757 said:


> For metal yes I kind of agree (I don't think it is impossible), but chords have been disappearing from genres that aren't as heavily distorted or distorted at all, that was what i was referring too.
> 
> Either way they will remain at the very least in jazz and some blues.



Yeah. But listen to something even as radio rockish as Nickelback and the amount of gain they're using vs. something from the 80's (even metal stuff) and especially prior to that. I'm not saying that it's always the case, but I do think it plays a part.


----------



## xhellchosemex (Jun 4, 2012)

Yea, the old good pig squeal beatdown deathcore is pretty much dying... now everything has a djenty tone and VoM-breakdowns... fuck this shit. All I want is death metal production, breakdowns and pig squeals.


----------



## Adeamus (Jun 4, 2012)

flint757 said:


> For metal yes I kind of agree (I don't think it is impossible), but chords have been disappearing from genres that aren't as heavily distorted or distorted at all, that was what i was referring too.
> 
> Either way they will remain at the very least in jazz and some blues.



What are you guys talking about? Full chords are still all over in all sorts of music. Now full traditional "cowboy" chords on the guitar might not be feasible under a freight train of gain but that doesn't mean there aren't chord progressions in the songs at all, or thirds being used in the rhythm bits.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 4, 2012)

xhellchosemex said:


> Yea, the old good pig squeal beatdown deathcore is pretty much dying... now everything has a djenty tone and VoM-breakdowns... fuck this shit. All I want is death metal production, breakdowns and pig squeals.



Eeeh. I, for one, am kind of glad the pig squeals faded away. Just gimme the traditional death growl and screams.


----------



## flint757 (Jun 4, 2012)

Adeamus said:


> What are you guys talking about? Full chords are still all over in all sorts of music. Now full traditional "cowboy" chords on the guitar might not be feasible under a freight train of gain but that doesn't mean there aren't chord progressions in the songs at all, or thirds being used in the rhythm bits.



not usually more than a couple strings and/or arpeggios usually. Half the time it seems like when someone is playing an actual chord in metal it is for noise effect because of the gain. In any case the reference was more or less toward rock music which is mostly single string stuff, power chords and if anyone attempts chords it is almost always DCG these days. I'm sure in all cases there are examples, but as a trend mainstream rock has gotten lazy.


----------



## 3074326 (Jun 4, 2012)

ZOMB13 said:


> Guitar brand related, has anyone heard anything about Fernandez lately? I saw a video of Munky from KoRn using a Fernandez 7 string when Head re-joined them on stage a fe weeks ago, not sure if it was a one time thing using that Fernandez since Head was using Munky's 7 string, I'm sure Munky had more Ibanez 7 strings backstage, but why he chose to use a Fernandez is interesting.



This post gave me a reason to post this video:


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## Adeamus (Jun 4, 2012)

flint757 said:


> not usually more than a couple strings and/or arpeggios usually. Half the time it seems like when someone is playing an actual chord in metal it is for noise effect because of the gain. In any case the reference was more or less toward rock music which is mostly single string stuff, power chords and if anyone attempts chords it is almost always DCG these days. I'm sure in all cases there are examples, but as a trend mainstream rock has gotten lazy.



I think you're keeping too narrow of a definition of a chord. What if a guitarist is playing a power chord (R, 5) of a chord and then second guitarist in the band is playing an arpeggio that is based around the r, 3, 5 of the same chord. The guitars are still producing a chord, even if it doesn't sound like an acoustic guitar.

I just think this is an interesting topic since I think most of the good death metal that is around nowadays figures out ways to work chords into their songs. The chorus of "What A Horrible Night to Have a Curse" by Black Dahlia Murder is the song that always comes to mind as far as a "brutal" song that still has chords all over it.


----------



## flint757 (Jun 4, 2012)

Your right I am keeping to a fairly narrow view of chords. If you include other variants then yes it is still prevalent, but if you look at rock music strictly even back in the 90's you had blink 182, incubus, hell even green day playing actual chords and it seems whenever I come across a rock song these days it is usually just power chords and single string riffs (which was also the case to a degree back then). I suppose my musical palette could have shrunk since I was a kid and moved on to other things, but from what I observe rock and even things like country (power chords exist in country now ) that people just don't make the effort. Radiohead for instance comes up with crazy shit on a theory level with there chord choices.


----------



## Esp Griffyn (Jun 5, 2012)

Seems to me that music from virtuosos on their respective instruments is not as popular as it was. Not that it will ever "die", but it's not as in the limelight like it used to be. 

Back when I got interested in music which is 12 years now, the bass virtuoso genre was thriving (which is really just Jazz fusion with extremely talented bass players often doing solo tracks) with guys like Victor Wooten, Michael Manring, Bill Dickens, Marcus Miller, Steve Bailey, Stu Hamm etc were discussed a lot on more general music forums for musicians. The same went for guitarists too, Satch and Vai threads were a daily thing, everyone wanted to learn how to play "Eugene's trick bag" and owning a Jem 7VWH made you a real don.

Times have moved on I think. I still love it, but I think it's easier to watch a 30 second clip on youtube and say "fast but no soul" and then write it off, instead of actually buying the albums from these guys and really hearing the music. I remember a time when seeing a video of someone playing the "Serrana" arpeggios was something else people would blow their internet connection up trying watch, now you can go to youtube and see an 8 year old doing it and people probably think "Fast but where soul?" and forget the massive gulf between learning to play something someone else wrote and coming up with something like that yourself.

The backlash that happened in the early 90s seems to have happened again where people become disillusioned with talented musicians and just want the "chunga chunga", to quote Steve Vai. Why challenge yourself to be good at your instrument, or create complex compositions when you can just create some generic djent riffs, toss in a few breakdowns and stick some Drum kit from Hell (or whatever the kids are using these days) and call yourself a band ? If you have no friends and have to do it all on your own, don't sweat, it's a "project"! 

I do miss good virtuoso music, but Vai's latest teaser track didn't blow me away, and Satch has been doing rock jam albums for a while now. Quiet on the bass side of things too.

I won't miss djent, or "core" or any other scene musics when they go. I won't miss the sterile, artificially bright production or the autotune either!


----------



## the hittmann (Jun 5, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> I wouldn't say they were the... [cough]... first... [ahem]...



I love savatage. One of the most underrated bands ever!!!! I saw trans siberian orchestra on their spring tour and they played chance and handful of rain.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 11, 2012)

that pic reminds me,

you dont see album cover artwork like you used to back in the day...


----------



## LLink2411 (Jun 11, 2012)

broj15 said:


> Punk had been dead since probably the mid 90's. And I don't mean Green Day punk. I mean real punk. Sure, rancid is still around, but given there lack of activity in the last few years I would hardly call them relavent. East Bay Ray or Jello Biafra might come out of their caves and collaborate with some one but really that's just to remind the world that they haven't died yet. It's a shame that the genre I used to be so passionate about had already been dead for 7 or 8 years by the time I got into it.
> 
> Disclaimer: yes there is still a pretty active underground punk scene but I highly doubt there will ever be a punk band that will really h the same level of success and notoriety of the Ramone, the Sex Pistols, the Dead Kennedy's, or The Misfits.



Rise Against is one of the biggest bands around and they are practically a Minor Threat and Black Flag tribute band.




Louis Cypher said:


> andn then nothing but Rhianna on MTV Hits, MTV ROCKS, MTV Base, MTV 1.6 GTi, MTV Ghia, MTV sweet n sour pork balls with special fried rice, MTV I name this ship Guetta and god bless all who sale in her


----------



## GSingleton (Jun 11, 2012)

so....is the whole talk about DJENT bullshit done?

Just do not do it. Play with some real tone. Btw, periphery's new tone is the absolutely the highest mid amount you should have imo.  

Gonna yell at me? Do not care. my opinion.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Jun 11, 2012)

GSingleton said:


> so....is the whole talk about DJENT bullshit done?
> 
> Just do not do it. Play with some real tone. Btw, periphery's new tone is the absolutely the highest mid amount you should have imo.
> 
> Gonna yell at me? Do not care. my opinion.



Define real tone?


----------



## Loomer (Jun 11, 2012)

Punk isn't dead, it just smells funny. 

Granted, it's more culturally relevant now in places like Russia, Iran, Iraq and other places where the population is overtly oppressed. That said, punk is still alive and well in the crust and d-beat scene, worldwide.


----------



## The Grief Hole (Jun 11, 2012)

Blasphemer said:


> This is the best thing I've heard in a long time



And it is totally true. I watched 2 discharge wannabe mohawked bands last night, followed by metal era suicidal tendencies, followed by two thrash rockabilly bands. Thankfully djent hasn't hit yet.


----------



## fps (Jun 11, 2012)

Loomer said:


> Punk isn't dead, it just smells funny.
> 
> Granted, it's more culturally relevant now in places like Russia, Iran, Iraq and other places where the population is overtly oppressed. That said, punk is still alive and well in the crust and d-beat scene, worldwide.



We are now in an era of soft power where our views can be expressed and that is enough for most people, and the majority is never listened to. But we have our computers and TVs and iPhones and tbh this is what we fought for, the right to do whatever we want. But if you're of the mindset that people can do whatever they like, it makes it that much harder to motivate people genuinely to hold our politicians and bankers to account for the way they have conducted themselves, due to a lack of motivation and also the hypocrisy that comes with saying *hey look, you shouldn't have done that* when the entire history of the distorted guitar has been very liberal, about free expression and about saying *people should be able to do whatever they want*.


----------



## -42- (Jun 11, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Define real tone?



EMG 81s through scooped Marshall JCM.

Duh.


----------



## Trespass (Jun 12, 2012)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Seems to me that music from virtuosos on their respective instruments is not as popular as it was. Not that it will ever "die", but it's not as in the limelight like it used to be.
> 
> Back when I got interested in music which is 12 years now, the bass virtuoso genre was thriving (which is really just Jazz fusion with extremely talented bass players often doing solo tracks) with guys like Victor Wooten, Michael Manring, Bill Dickens, Marcus Miller, Steve Bailey, Stu Hamm etc were discussed a lot on more general music forums for musicians. The same went for guitarists too, Satch and Vai threads were a daily thing, everyone wanted to learn how to play "Eugene's trick bag" and owning a Jem 7VWH made you a real don.
> 
> ...



What are you talking about? People don't listen to Vai/Satriani anymore because the novelty of a guitar virtuoso is over for the second time.

After the technique-fest is over, the incredibly stale songwriting style of a weak melody over a weak chord progression with a cookie-cutter form doesn't leave a whole lot to grasp. The pyrotechnics are what's holding it together.

I love Vai's writing, but I have to admit that what he's selling at this point is the whole Vai aesthetic and experience (much like Satriani and Malmsteen are also doing at this point), and not much in terms of the writing department.


The harmony behind most of the guitar virtuoso shred arpeggio bullshit is _simplified_ functional harmony that's been around for literally 300 years.


----------



## Loomer (Jun 12, 2012)

ONLY NOISE IS REAL


----------



## groverj3 (Jun 12, 2012)

Trespass said:


> What are you talking about? People don't listen to Vai/Satriani anymore because the novelty of a guitar virtuoso is over for the second time.
> 
> After the technique-fest is over, the incredibly stale songwriting style of a weak melody over a weak chord progression with a cookie-cutter form doesn't leave a whole lot to grasp. The pyrotechnics are what's holding it together.
> 
> ...


 
Hey now, I still like solo virtuoso stuff. Mostly because I try to tell myself I can play that well if I practice enough . It's something that will never go away completely, just like how virtuoso playing on other instruments never goes away either. It just varies in popularity. However, the fanbase is already small because most people who don't play the instrument don't really understand what is to like about playing 999999999999 notes per second and doing other complicated things.


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## PyramidSmasher (Jun 12, 2012)

22 frets


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 12, 2012)

PyramidSmasher said:


> 22 frets


only fender and its respective knock-off brands are the only ones doing this still...right?


----------



## Quitty (Jun 13, 2012)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> only fender and its respective knock-off brands are the only ones doing this still...right?



And PRS.
And Reverend. And Gibson, and EBMM.

I have to admit, though - my 22 fret sounds better than anything. Which is a crying shame as i don't play it. Not enough fret access.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 13, 2012)

the funny thing is the only fender guitar i own does not have a pick guard, 3 singles pups were removed & replaced with emg 81 & 86. also is 24 fret & neck-thru to boot  doesnt even sound like anything fender makes...

...oh yeah, it has a dbl locking trem added and has a reverse headstock


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## groverj3 (Jun 13, 2012)

PyramidSmasher said:


> 22 frets



21 frets

It's an odd number, and not 2 octaves. Really doesn't make any sense at all .


----------



## Murmel (Jun 14, 2012)

^
I agree that 21 frets is pretty pointless and could easily be replaced with 22. I don't want 22 to be completely replaced with 24 though.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 25, 2012)

^ why is that?

i havent seen many 27 fret guitars since that last xiphos.


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## CrownofWorms (Jun 26, 2012)

-42- said:


> EMG 81s through scooped Marshall JCM.
> 
> Duh.



You forgot the tube screamer



Murmel said:


> ^
> I agree that 21 frets is pretty pointless and could easily be replaced with 22. I don't want 22 to be completely replaced with 24 though.



IDK but I play better with a 22 fret . Hell, my main guitar is a 22 fret. I started to not care about the number of frets unless its like 30 frets


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## tacotiklah (Jun 26, 2012)

I prefer 24 frets just because I have a complete 2 octave neck span. Plus my in my personal experience, guitars with 24 frets tend to have better upper fret access for some reason. (not including bulky heels or the like)


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## bhakan (Jun 26, 2012)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> ^ why is that?
> 
> i havent seen many 27 fret guitars since that last xiphos.


A lot of people think 22 fret guitars have a better sounding neck pickup placement, since it is right over the location of the octave (the 24th fret), it supposedly has better harmonic qualities and such, plus it is further from the bridge. I don't have any experience with whether this is or isn't true, but it makes sense.


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## Ambit (Jun 26, 2012)

emg pickups used to be cool.


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## nickgray (Jun 26, 2012)

bhakan said:


> A lot of people think 22 fret guitars have a better sounding neck pickup placement, since it is right over the location of the octave (the 24th fret), it supposedly has better harmonic qualities and such, plus it is further from the bridge. I don't have any experience with whether this is or isn't true, but it makes sense.



I wonder why there aren't more guitars with single coil sized humbuckers or with noiseless high output singles.


----------



## CrownofWorms (Jun 26, 2012)

ghstofperdition said:


> I prefer 24 frets just because I have a complete 2 octave neck span. Plus my in my personal experience, guitars with 24 frets tend to have better upper fret access for some reason. (not including bulky heels or the like)



Well guitars with horns (rg strat) in my experience, the average guitars have a huge difficulty reaching the upper frets due to the cutaway. I prefer V's, cus you don't have to worry about that horn being in the way


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## The_Mop (Jun 26, 2012)

'Sherd'


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## TankJon666 (Jun 26, 2012)

Ambit said:


> emg pickups used to be cool.



 The 81 used to pretty much rule the world.

Now they are uncooler than perms and shoulder pads...


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## Murmel (Jun 26, 2012)

bhakan said:


> A lot of people think 22 fret guitars have a better sounding neck pickup placement, since it is right over the location of the octave (the 24th fret), it supposedly has better harmonic qualities and such, plus it is further from the bridge. I don't have any experience with whether this is or isn't true, but it makes sense.



I like 22 frets because I use the 23-24th fret like 4 times a year. I suck at lead, and I can't shred so when I do solos they usually never go beyond something like the 20th. The 20th usually gets a bend too so 
And I absolutely hate how 24 frets look on some guitars. Les Pauls with 24 frets...


----------



## Quitty (Jun 26, 2012)

Murmel said:


> I like 22 frets because I use the 23-24th fret like 4 times a year. I suck at lead, and I can't shred so when I do solos they usually never go beyond something like the 20th. The 20th usually gets a bend too so
> And I absolutely hate how 24 frets look on some guitars. Les Pauls with 24 frets...



Likewise, i'm a pretty shitty lead player (conceptually, more than technically but still), and i rarely ever go above 20, but i'll tell you two things -
first, i can't play 22 fret guitars. Not enough fret access on anything but an SG (anything i've tried, anyway), 
and second - 22 frets sound remarkably different. 
My 22 fret Washburn was the best sounding guitar i've had with the right pickups, and i just couldn't play it. I think it's the umpteenth time or so i've been saying this


----------



## TankJon666 (Jun 26, 2012)

Murmel said:


> I like 22 frets because I use the 23-24th fret like 4 times a year. I suck at lead, and I can't shred so when I do solos they usually never go beyond something like the 20th. The 20th usually gets a bend too so
> And I absolutely hate how 24 frets look on some guitars. Les Pauls with 24 frets...



 I need an oxygen mask if I go anywhere up past the 15 fret


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## LLink2411 (Jun 26, 2012)

24 fret necks are nice for symmetry, but I have never heard a not above a certain point that didn't sound both weak and shrill like an icepick. 

But I can definately see the pull of playing up there because you're so amazing and need to show the world those skills.


----------



## Jakke (Jun 26, 2012)

LLink2411 said:


> But I can definately see the pull of playing up there because you're so amazing and need to show the world those skills.



Well, I tend to approach guitar playing more vertically than horizontally. That is, I am more prone to going up frets rather than going down to a thinner string, which makes 24 fret guitars pretty handy


----------



## maxrossell (Jun 26, 2012)

nickgray said:


> I wonder why there aren't more guitars with single coil sized humbuckers or with noiseless high output singles.



I reckon retro-purism. The SC-sized HB was pretty much invented to retrofit Fender Strats without having to rerout. Now there are guys who'll shoot you dead if you so much as suggest upgrading the tuners on a Fender product.

That plus there are very few production models with SC-sized humbuckers in, I suppose for fairly obvious reasons, and these days guitars are much cheaper on average so oftentimes if you want a humbucker sound you just go pick up a guitar with a humbucker in it.


----------



## The_Mop (Jun 26, 2012)

The digitech bad monkey - was all the rave a while ago, it's the underdog of good distortion pedals that are also cheap! (apparently) (this could have just been on MX)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 26, 2012)

I love my Bad Monkey to death.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 26, 2012)

TankJon666 said:


> The 81 used to pretty much rule the world.
> 
> Now they are uncooler than perms and shoulder pads...



really....i still rock all three!


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Jun 27, 2012)

Esp Griffyn said:


> The same went for guitarists too, Satch and Vai threads were a daily thing, everyone wanted to learn how to play "Eugene's trick bag" and owning a Jem 7VWH made you a real don.


 

I miss those days!!!


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## Ultraussie (Jun 27, 2012)

Pointy shapes.
I have not seen a single band in my local area that use's pointy shapes.
And my shittest guitars are pointy, I wish I could get the specs of my more better guitars on a more dramatic shape


----------



## Murmel (Jun 27, 2012)

^
Honestly, I never see anything remotely extravagant shape wise other than guitars hanging in shops and in guitarists bedrooms. When it comes to the stage the classics are usually what you see.


----------



## flexkill (Jun 27, 2012)

This, and honestly it should never have been considered cool...if it ever was. Totally ridiculous. Sorry for those offended.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 27, 2012)

^ crazy shapes look good in vids lol...

i have all kinds but to me and explorer or a "v" is what i prefer.


----------



## Murmel (Jun 27, 2012)

^
Yeah I agree, crazy shapes work in music videos. Kinda the same thing as really weird clothing works in music videos, but just looks weird if you wear them as everyday wear (wake up anime fangirls ).

I wouldn't call the V or Explorer crazy though, they definitely have their place and are classics.


----------



## flint757 (Jun 27, 2012)

Yeah they were crazy shapes in their heyday, but nowadays they are no weirder to me than an SG, les paul, etc.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 27, 2012)

the angel sword is by far one of the craziest shapes...i never play it tho, just look at it 

here it is next to a "normal guitar" my jackson custom shop.


----------



## DaddleCecapitation (Jun 28, 2012)

I'm going to have to agree with everyone saying that Washburn is dying/dead.

It's such a shame that the Washburn Custom Shop is completely closed to customers and dealers. I don't know what the deal is with the new owners and how they see the future of Washburn's legacy, but I think they're taking a massive step back as of 2012. Nowadays, you can't get a US-made Washburn that suits ones general needs and appeals to one's finances unless of course your name is Nuno Bettencourt or Paul Stanley.

I also don't like how they feel the need to change their main line-up of guitars. Everyone was shocked to see the classic Idol shape go, but I was most shocked to learn that it wasn't because of some R&D ergonomics exercise, it was because they thought it looked nicer. Bad move in my opinion.

It was also a kick in the arse to see the HM series get messed up. I acquired a WM526 this year and it's unlike anything I've ever played. It was so unique in its innovation as a long-lasting, solid shreddy metal guitar.


----------



## TheBloodstained (Jun 28, 2012)

HammettHateCrew said:


> I'm going to have to agree with everyone saying that Washburn is dying/dead.


...the should put the CS780 back in produktion!





...I've had major GAS for a purple one for some time now!


----------



## Loomer (Jun 28, 2012)

Yeah, it's a goddamn cryin' shame what happened to Washburn. I really liked the Idol series :/


----------



## fassaction (Jun 28, 2012)

flexkill said:


> This, and honestly it should never have been considered cool...if it ever was. Totally ridiculous. Sorry for those offended.



hope this doesnt offend anybody....but to me, this style of "pointy guitars" just screams noob to me. Somebody who JUST started playing. To me, its just a dopey looking guitar. Give me a solid looking super strat design any day of the week, or a LP shape.


----------



## -42- (Jun 28, 2012)

Murmel said:


> Les Pauls with 24 frets...



I dunno, depends on whether or not you lump Eclipses and Carvins CSs into that category.

Back on topic:

Seems like all sorts of bands are gravitating away from the 'center', in terms tone, technicality and style. Super warm and saturated retro fuzz, clean and sparkly, or tight percussive distortion, very simple (as little as 2 or 3 note) parts, or wheedly wheedly to the max, super melodic or super brootz (occasionally in the same song ). You see where I'm going with this. There are still plenty of musicians who are neither one or the other and exercise their craft between extremes. It's just that it's very trendy to push yourself all the way to one side of the spectrum or the other these days.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 2, 2012)

with the rise of the internet...tab books, i still collect them tho.


----------



## JosephAOI (Jul 3, 2012)

LLink2411 said:


> 24 fret necks are nice for symmetry, but I have never heard a not above a certain point that didn't sound both weak and shrill like an icepick.
> 
> But I can definately see the pull of playing up there because you're so amazing and need to show the world those skills.


 :33
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=3192170156141&set=vb.1022506744&type=2&theater

3:15


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## Murmel (Jul 3, 2012)

-42- said:


> I dunno, depends on whether or not you lump Eclipses and Carvins CSs into that category.


Everything that looks even close to a Les Paul looks terrible with more than 22 frets if you ask me.


----------



## LLink2411 (Jul 3, 2012)

JosephAOI said:


> :33
> Facebook
> 
> 3:15




Was that meant to change what I think?


----------



## cronux (Jul 3, 2012)

Murmel said:


> Everything that looks even close to a Les Paul looks terrible with more than 22 frets if you ask me.



everything that looks even close to a Les Paul and has 7 strings on it 
just hate the 7 string les paul/prs looking guitars, dunno... i feel that it's not their place to go walking about in 7 string territory 
(but that's just me) 

and kudos for weird shape guitars... they are really dying out


----------



## JosephAOI (Jul 3, 2012)

LLink2411 said:


> Was that meant to change what I think?


My point was to show that you can use the 24th fret without trying to show off. The two riffs in those songs I just wrote to sound cool, not to show off.


----------



## LLink2411 (Jul 3, 2012)

JosephAOI said:


> My point was to show that you can use the 24th fret without trying to show off. The two riffs in those songs I just wrote to sound cool, not to show off.



I was just being sillly when I said that.


----------



## JosephAOI (Jul 4, 2012)

My fault then


----------



## tacotiklah (Jul 4, 2012)

flexkill said:


>




I'm not offended, but I think this guitar is cool. 
Difference in opinions and all that. To me, I'm tired of seeing yet ANOTHER superstrat. Woo-hoo... 
I like companies that at least try to do something completely new other than crank out the same kind of guitar they have for the last ___ years but with upgrades in parts. Sure this model might be a bit wonky to most, but I give BCR props for trying to do something different.


----------



## carcass (Jul 4, 2012)

ghstofperdition said:


> I'm not offended, but I think this guitar is cool.
> Difference in opinions and all that. To me, I'm tired of seeing yet ANOTHER superstrat. Woo-hoo...
> I like companies that at least try to do something completely new other than crank out the same kind of guitar they have for the last ___ years but with upgrades in parts. Sure this model might be a bit wonky to most, but I give BCR props for trying to do something different.



I really like this shape, even though a lot of my friends called it "paddle" and told me to get "real guitar". My first guitar was Yamaha EG112 (classic superstrat shape) and in that time I was not interested in brands, shapes or anything else guitar-wise .. then once I saw a picture of Enmity´s guitarist and he was playing this model, so I got tempted and after I save up enough money I bought one too .. and that was the beginning of my interested in gear /,,/


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## WiseSplinter (Jul 4, 2012)

I have an Ibanez JS with 22 frets, the sound of the neck pickup is really nice, might be something to do with it being 2 frets further from the bridge   so i think 22 fret guitars still have a use.

Also dying out: leather pants and guy-liner. good riddance

...and keytars


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## schecter4life (Jul 4, 2012)

i like metalcore (parkway, AILD, ATR, etc.) and im not ashamed..all genres have their greats.

although i will say, the VAST MAJORITY of metalcore bands, especially the newer ones suck....bigtime....i want to punch attack attack in their vagina's


ghstofperdition said:


> I'm not offended, but I think this guitar is cool.
> Difference in opinions and all that. To me, I'm tired of seeing yet ANOTHER superstrat. Woo-hoo...
> I like companies that at least try to do something completely new other than crank out the same kind of guitar they have for the last ___ years but with upgrades in parts. Sure this model might be a bit wonky to most, but I give BCR props for trying to do something different.


...thats because nobody will ever buy their new style guitars which forces the companies
to stop producing them

anf for me, it is COMFORT that draws me to the strat-ish shape..the most cofortable body ive ever held was my s-series ibanez




and my vote for dead trends goes to GLAM METAL

and dying goes to....metalcore, i just know the good ones are probably gonna keep on kicking for a good bit


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## tacotiklah (Jul 5, 2012)

Well you can't say "nobody". 
I'm somebody and I do know of like-minded individuals. I'm not saying to abandon the strat style completely, but at the same time I like to see companies try to do new things too. Some fail, some succeed. But a failure to try ensures a 100% chance of failure of doing anything new or innovative.

I don't even hate strat shapes, just kinda bored with them nowadays given that outside of the last couple of years, most of my 10 years of playing has involved strat-bodied guitars. I get bored easy and like a change of pace. This is all jmo and should in no way be taken completely seriously of course.


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## WiseSplinter (Jul 5, 2012)

I think the biggest factor (for me) about strat-like shapes is that you attach the strap to the upper horn, allowing the guitar to balance nicely while standing. 
I hate neck dive with a passion and unfortunately guitars with more extreme shapes (V's, explorers etc) don't have the upper horn on which to attach the strap, making them more prone to dive. 
Also a nice round cutaway on the bottom is way more comfy to play sitting down than, say, an explorer with a more angular leg rest area.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 6, 2012)

idk...an explorer or ex shapes really feels good to me.

nice little notch to set on your knee with a comfortable spot to rest your forearm. plus it looks way cooler


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## M3CHK1LLA (Sep 30, 2012)

...after seeing & hearing an axe fx for the first time this weekend, im gonna say amps & and effects pedals are on there way out.


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## 0 Xero 0 (Oct 2, 2012)

^ I disagree. Granted, I haven't played through one, but I've heard Periphery live twice, AAL once, and TSF once. They sounded great and the portability of an modeling rig for touring bands is awesome compared to hundreds of pounds worth of heads and cabs; however, tube amps will almost always be mainstays when recording. Even though the Axefx II has jumped leaps and bounds in terms of attempting to capture tube feel, it's not perfect. To me there's nothing like plugging into a good tube amp and having the amp respond to me playing. That's why people like Vai, Petrucci, Abasi, and the BTBAM fellows use the Axefx live for various duties, but stick to tube amps in the studio. Also, I like vacuum tubes, especially vintage ones. I just think they're cool


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## flint757 (Oct 2, 2012)

I own the kemper, axe-fx ultra and a mark IV and play on the modelling gear way more than my amp, but I still agree with Xero, they aren't going anywhere. Honestly, more people on the internet seem to use it than I see in real life (obvious, I know). I've mentioned the Axe-fx to people in the real world and most don't know what I'm talking about. The final nail in the coffin honestly is that the Kemper profiles these amps and the axe-fx's main attempt is to match them (I know, you don't have to). Their goal is to be more like the amps and even if they achieve that, without the amps they have nothing to copy. Royal Atlantic, Mark V, and probably more just by mesa alone have been made only in the past couple of years, can't copy their sound if they don't exist.


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## 3074326 (Oct 2, 2012)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> ...after seeing & hearing an axe fx for the first time this weekend, im gonna say amps & and effects pedals are on there way out.



Nah. I sell probably 5 tube amps over $600 per every processor. And we don't even sell the Axe FX. I've talked to maybe 10 people who even know what it is while at work. 

Only one of them wasn't a Periphery fan. He was a country player. They're getting more popular, but they aren't replacing anything, probably ever. Too many purists out there. All my recording nerd friends still always tell me "dude, there's just something about miking amps that is fun." I disagree strongly, but I'm only one dude and there are 15 or so of them. 

Not much is changing for the foreseeable future.

All that being said, as an Axe II owner, I'm with you 150%. I hate recording with actual amps. I can't do it at home, and when I can actually do it somewhere, it's fucking annoying and it never sounds as good as my Axe.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Oct 2, 2012)

oh i agree that they are not going away anytime soon...

just saying with technology, computers, newer software and the cost of these things going down with other companies building more/cheaper etc. its just a matter of time...effects will go before amps tho. the little cheap portables will always be around i think.


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## nickgray (Oct 2, 2012)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> ...after seeing & hearing an axe fx for the first time this weekend, im gonna say amps & and effects pedals are on there way out.



Trouble is though, an amp lets you dial a great tone in a matter of seconds. Digital modeling, on the other hand, is quite a bit more complicated. I mean even something like Triaxis with all its relative complexity is still really simple and easy, you can get tons of superb tones in seconds. It's the controls - modeling amps use a complicated and finicky control scheme with menus and submenus, all that stuff, while real amps keep it as simple as pretty much possible. As a result, you play the guitar instead of playing with the digital amp.


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## Curt (Oct 2, 2012)

I, for one hope everbody starts abandoning their real amps and switch to modelling so I can start hoarding vintage and boutique amps more easily.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 2, 2012)

flexkill said:


>





fassaction said:


> hope this doesnt offend anybody....but to me, this style of "pointy guitars" just screams noob to me. Somebody who JUST started playing. To me, its just a dopey looking guitar. Give me a solid looking super strat design any day of the week, or a LP shape.



My retort:


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## Zoosadist (Oct 6, 2012)

I'm gonna make some enemies by saying this, and if you disagree I want an explanation. I believe djent (not Meshuggah) will eventually die out because there's so many of those bands. As musical trends go it was nu-metal (that vanished until they tried a resurgence), hardcore (like Taking Back Sunday), metalcore, deathcore (Suicide Silence's The Cleansing is the exception for me). There's a difference between playing off of something extreme, be it an emotion or concept, something slightly unique sounding on a 35 string guitar that's tuned down 15 octaves, will eventually sound old especially if there's 20 other bands doing the same thing.


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## guitareben (Oct 6, 2012)

0 Xero 0 said:


> ...however, tube amps will almost always be mainstays when recording...



Actually, in the pop world anyway, guitars are recorded directly into the computer (DI) more and more frequently now (Means that if the tone doesn't work you can just change it, there and then with plugins etc).

But thats pop


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## Ben.Last (Oct 6, 2012)

Zoosadist said:


> I'm gonna make some enemies by saying this, and if you disagree I want an explanation. I believe djent (not Meshuggah) will eventually die out because there's so many of those bands. As musical trends go it was nu-metal (that vanished until they tried a resurgence), hardcore (like Taking Back Sunday), metalcore, deathcore (Suicide Silence's The Cleansing is the exception for me). There's a difference between playing off of something extreme, be it an emotion or concept, something slightly unique sounding on a 35 string guitar that's tuned down 15 octaves, will eventually sound old especially if there's 20 other bands doing the same thing.



Of course this is true. Everything in music is cyclical. Djent is already on it's downward slope (go anywhere that talks about metal but this site for the proof). 

Trend starts>bands hop on trend>fickle metal fans turn on trend>trend becomes unpopular>new trend comes along>1st trend gains back a bit of popularity for the bands that actually had merit>lather rinse repeat


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## M3CHK1LLA (Oct 12, 2012)

pointy guitars arent going anywhere...

...anytime someone feels the need to "look" metal, there will be one on stage on in the video.


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## Bigfan (Oct 12, 2012)

Lern2swim said:


> Trend starts>bands hop on trend>fickle fans turn on trend



This is honestly the most annoying thing I see these days.

It's not just metal either.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Nov 30, 2012)

Bigfan said:


> This is honestly the most annoying thing I see these days.
> 
> It's not just metal either.



this has been happening for as long as i can remeber...

...very common during the "big hair metal" days.


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## Rook (Dec 1, 2012)

I think the focus put on huge labels like Virgin and EMI will decrease, but not fade completely. More and more people do bedroom recording thing and are getting better and better at it, its so much easier to get your music to the world than it used to be. Labels play a part, absolutely, but there's significantly less 'i must get signed to virgin or I don't have a career of any kind' these days. I have a Red Seas Fire album, Intervals, the first Periphery Album, Animals as Leaders etc, hardly the cream of the music industry but all bedroom albums, the labels, if they even have deals as some don't, just got them distro (though their labels had nothing to do with me finding out about them)

With that in mind, the lifetime of 'superstars' seems to be decreasing too. All of the mega acts that everybody knows and loves are getting old with fewer people replacing them. People like Arctic Monkeys or The Killers or whatever aren't ever going to be held in the same light as people like Pink Floyd, Queen, The Rolling Stones etc whether you like those bands or not.

Again though, not dying out, just changing.








0 Xero 0 said:


> Even though the Axefx II has jumped leaps and bounds in terms of attempting to capture tube feel, *it's not perfect. To me there's nothing like plugging into a good tube amp* and having the amp respond to me playing.





0 Xero 0 said:


> I haven't played through one



I half agree with what you're saying, really I do, but there's a lot of 'I've not tried one but it's this' on SSO 

Amps aren't going anywhere though, seriously, not for now. I switched to a full modelling setup myself and am a full advocate of it but I still use a power amp and cab.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Dec 2, 2012)

^ talking about labels...it reminds me of cd warehouse. you dont see those anymore.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Dec 28, 2014)

was looking back and saw this thread...

...wondering what else has changed since then.


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## Abaddon9112 (Dec 28, 2014)

The one thing I've noticed just hanging around on here this past year, is that there seems to be less Axe-FX/Kemper hype and more discussion of real amps and effects. 

Not that Axe and Kemper are dead or dying. But they seem to be passing from "new, cutting-edge tech" into a standard option that people use all the time without making a big deal about it.


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## fps (Dec 28, 2014)

Abaddon9112 said:


> The one thing I've noticed just hanging around on here this past year, is that there seems to be less Axe-FX/Kemper hype and more discussion of real amps and effects.
> 
> Not that Axe and Kemper are dead or dying. But they seem to be passing from "new, cutting-edge tech" into a standard option that people use all the time without making a big deal about it.



Think a lot of people have realised that live there really is nothing quite like pushing some air, for the player and the crowd. Not that these things aren't awesome.


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## RevelGTR (Dec 29, 2014)

I agree that people are starting to view them as just another option. I've owned two Ultra's. I wanted desperately to like them, but they both sounded awful to my ears. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. Also, predictions in this thread about djent dying don't seem to have come true completely. It seems like it's just become much more streamlined.


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## Ben.Last (Dec 30, 2014)

WSchaferJR said:


> Also, predictions in this thread about djent dying don't seem to have come true completely. It seems like it's just become much more streamlined.



I'd disagree. It's definitely going through the same exact phases that every rock/metal genre has for the last 30 or so years, and, at this point, it's certainly on the downward slide phase.


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## RevelGTR (Dec 30, 2014)

Are the bigger bands of the genre any less popular than ever, though? Of course every genre has a few bands that survive it's decline.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jan 3, 2015)

WSchaferJR said:


> Are the bigger bands of the genre any less popular than ever, though? Of course every genre has a few bands that survive it's decline.



good question...


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## OmegaSlayer (Jan 4, 2015)

Ibanez is losing his throne. 
Floating bridges are becoming something exotic. 
Standard tuning is dying.


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## Gothic Headhunter (Jan 4, 2015)

I haven't seen a good x-shaped guitar (xiphos, warrior) in a long time, and I'm not banking on ibanez releasing a new xiphos in 2015


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## Necris (Jan 4, 2015)

Steinberger seem pretty dead at the moment.


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## pondman (Jan 4, 2015)

Nothings ever new and everything that fades away usually comes back in one form or another ... imo.


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## celticelk (Jan 4, 2015)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Standard tuning is dying.



Somebody needs to spend a little time outside of metal forums, I think.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Jan 4, 2015)

celticelk said:


> Somebody needs to spend a little time outside of metal forums, I think.



Go to r/guitar. You'll get mocked for doing anything other than playing blues on a strat or les paul.


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## PlumbTheDerps (Jan 4, 2015)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> Go to reddit. You'll get mocked for doing anything.



ftfy


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## Chokey Chicken (Jan 4, 2015)

pondman said:


> Nothings ever new and everything that fades away usually comes back in one form or another ... imo.



Nothing ever truly "fades away" either. Just because something becomes less prominent doesn't mean it's even remotely gone. It's actually a better time to get into things because there's less people hopping on a bandwagon and producing derivative crap, and more people doing it because they love it.

edit: er... I suppose this is more music related and less instrument related.


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## Gothic Headhunter (Jan 4, 2015)

Necris said:


> Steinberger seem pretty dead at the moment.



Didn't they get bought out or something?


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## yingmin (Jan 4, 2015)

Gothic Headhunter said:


> Didn't they get bought out or something?



They've been owned by Gibson for over 20 years. They still made really good guitars up until the late 90s/early 2000s, and I really wish they would at least bring those guitars back, if not try something new. Hell, they could even use J Custom bridges and Moses necks, so they wouldn't have to design any of the hardware. Now is exactly the time for them to bring Steinberger back, and I see no indication that they're going to do it.


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## GenghisCoyne (Jan 4, 2015)

yingmin said:


> They've been owned by Gibson for over 20 years. They still made really good guitars up until the late 90s/early 2000s, and I really wish they would at least bring those guitars back, if not try something new. Hell, they could even use J Custom bridges and Moses necks, so they wouldn't have to design any of the hardware. Now is exactly the time for them to bring Steinberger back, and I see no indication that they're going to do it.



its almost like gibson is out of touch or something...


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## DarkWolfXV (Jan 5, 2015)

Loomer said:


> This..
> 
> It is for all intents and purposes dead as dead can be, but there are still nu-metal bands and fans in the American Midwest that still think it's cool, and plenty of people in Eastern Europe still jock it as well. Pretty much the usual places where people are 10 years behind the times. If it weren't for them, the genre could officially be declared dead, but sadly it's still dragging its rotting carcass around, grasping desperately for relevance, only to still be "a thing" to people who are too dumb to know better.



I know this is a post from 2012, but look how far we've come. Nu metal is experiencing a revival right now. Old nu-metal bands making new albums, new nu-metal bands spawning (Cane Hill, Issues, also kind of Sworn In) and various acts picking up nu metal elements (Volumes, Emmure being heavily nu metal influenced since _Felony_, "E" sounds like a Limp Bizkit song, lol). Slipknot is _cool to like_ amongst the IMN's now. Strange, strange times. 



Strong year 2002 vibes here


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Jan 5, 2015)

I've seen a lot less Skervesen and Mayones NGD's in the last few months than I did a year-18 months ago. I know they aren't dying by any means, but I just wanted to put in my 

I also see a lot less people proclaiming that high-end modeling is better than tube amps (and vise-versa) and a lot more people combining digital and analog setups, which I think is awesome  it's a better use of available tools than completely discounting one or the other type of equipment.


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## SeditiousDissent (Jan 5, 2015)

DarkWolfXV said:


> Strong year 2002 vibes here




Some of the singer's vocal inflections at the end of words remind me of the dude from Adema.


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## vilk (Jan 6, 2015)

I'm glad the big gaudy inlay train is finally slowing down. 2015 Schecters are finally pulling their shit together. Everyone is starting to put out a lot more blank fretboards I think--hell, isn't everything on the Iron Label line inlayless? Jackson too is stepping away from huge shark fins and doing more blanks. And piranhas (which I find to be the least obtrusive Jackson inlay.)

I'm a big fan of blank fretboards though--I bet some people are disappointed.

---
Unrelated-- I hate that no one is picking up on the idea that reverse headstocks are cool. We need more major companies putting out hockeystocks. I have to say I'm not thrilled how Jackson, ESP, and Schecter are not even trying to make inline headstocks, let alone reversed ones...


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## eaeolian (Jan 6, 2015)

vilk said:


> Unrelated-- I hate that no one is picking up on the idea that reverse headstocks are cool. We need more major companies putting out hockeystocks. I have to say I'm not thrilled how Jackson, ESP, and Schecter are not even trying to make inline headstocks, let alone reversed ones...



Uh, Jackson just put out two new 7 strings with reverse headstocks in 2014.


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