# Top 3 Nevermore albums for someone new?



## Gmork (Jan 23, 2019)

Top 3 albums for someone new. Always known the name, love what I've heard of jeff loomis but never really heard their stuff. I think i JUST heard my 1st song (godless endeavor) and loved it so now im on the hunt. 

Bonus: where to buy digitally???


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## eggy in a bready (Jan 23, 2019)

i don't really listen to them anymore, but this song is the jam:



contains the hardest riff Jeff Loomis ever wrote. Warrell goes ham on it as well


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## Gmork (Jan 23, 2019)

eggy in a bready said:


> i don't really listen to them anymore, but this song is the jam:
> 
> 
> 
> contains the hardest riff Jeff Loomis ever wrote. Warrell goes ham on it as well



Wow! As a HUGE mike patton/faith no more fan im hearing some serious similarities during the chorus. Man!... Its like FNM mixed with judas priest whom i also LOVE! this is fucking cool!


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## Werecow (Jan 23, 2019)

Personally i'd recommend The Politics of Ecstasy, Dreaming Neon Black, and Dead Heart In A Dead World.

They don't have an album i won't listen to though.


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## Gmork (Jan 23, 2019)

Awesome folks! Keep em coming, TOP 3!?


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## Gmork (Jan 23, 2019)

Werecow said:


> Personally i'd recommend The Politics of Ecstasy, Dreaming Neon Black, and Dead Heart In A Dead World.
> 
> They don't have an album i won't listen to though.


Daaaaammmn!!! That guitar/bass tone on politics!!! UGHHH!!! lol.
Kind of an ampeg vh140 sorta sound. Wonder what they recorded with. Thats flippin brutal!


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## Werecow (Jan 23, 2019)

Gmork said:


> Wow! As a HUGE mike patton/faith no more fan im hearing some serious similarities during the chorus. Man!... Its like FNM mixed with judas priest whom i also LOVE! this is fucking cool!



Seeing as you like Priest, check this cover out. Especially the screaming near the end.


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## Gmork (Jan 23, 2019)

Oh man.... Im having kind of .... A moment. 
I think im im massively in love with nevermore.... Like..... A lot


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## Gmork (Jan 23, 2019)

So far im REALLY digging politics and dead heart. Not feeling neon black too much though.


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## Gmork (Jan 23, 2019)

Werecow said:


> Seeing as you like Priest, check this cover out. Especially the screaming near the end.



Oh man! Haha awesome


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## gunch (Jan 23, 2019)

I remember hearing nevermore for the first time and thought it sounded like contradictions collapse with power metal vocals


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## mastapimp (Jan 23, 2019)

If you liked This Godless Endeavor, you will probably like the two preceding albums, Enemies of Reality (REMIX) and Dead Heart in a Dead World. Both those albums have Jeff using 7 strings and have Andy Sneap producing so they're similar, sonically speaking. 

Favorites from those 3 albums:

The Heart Collector
Believe in Nothing
Engines of Hate
Enemies of Reality
I, Voyager
Tomorrow Turned Into Yesterday
Born
The Final Product
Your Acid Words
This Godless Endeavor

I also liked Politics of Ecstasy and Dreaming Neon Black, but prefer the later releases.


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## Demiurge (Jan 23, 2019)

Gmork said:


> So far im REALLY digging politics and dead heart. Not feeling neon black too much though.



Give Dreaming Neon Black more of a chance and I guarantee it will grow on you. The only issue I have with it is that the title track feels almost like a crescendo of the album though it's relatively early, making the latter part feel a tad draggy but the songs are brilliant.

Ugh, and I just remembered that Warrel Dane AND Tim Calvert, who played on this one, have passed.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 23, 2019)

This Godless Endeavour, Enemies of Reality, Dreaming Neon Black. Godless Endeavour is their best album imo.
Basically just listen to all their albums lol


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## Surveyor 777 (Jan 23, 2019)

For me:

-This Godless Endeavor
-Dead Heart In A Dead World
-The Politics of Ecstasy


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## Bdtunn (Jan 23, 2019)

I always go back and listen to enemies of reality every few months


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## Laimon (Jan 23, 2019)

Gmork said:


> So far im REALLY digging politics and dead heart. Not feeling neon black too much though.



Oh man, repent and atone. DNB is the most amazing album ever.


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## Nonapod (Jan 23, 2019)

It's crazy to me that Dead Heart is almost 20 years old. I remember buying Testament's The Gathering and recieving Dead Heart as a gift within a month of each other. It was like a one-two punch of Andy Sneap production combined with bands at the height of their writing power.


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## GuitarBizarre (Jan 23, 2019)

There are no bad choices here. 

Unless you listen to the original mix of Enemies of Reality. That's a mistake, make sure you get the remastered version.


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## Ola Englund (Jan 23, 2019)

Music wise I think I like politics of ecstasy the most, but Dead Heart is just such a banger of an album. Their peak album. Riffs for days. People praise Jeff for being an incredible lead player, but his riff writing needs more credit


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## TheShreddinHand (Jan 23, 2019)

Surveyor 777 said:


> For me:
> 
> -This Godless Endeavor
> -Dead Heart In A Dead World
> -The Politics of Ecstasy



Same pics for me with dead heart being my favorite. Then right behind these are Enemies, Neon Black, and Obsidian Conspiracy.


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## Ralyks (Jan 23, 2019)

Politics of Ecstacy
Dreaming Neon Black
This Godless Endeavor

But really, they're all great.


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## Descent (Jan 23, 2019)

The Godless Endeavor
Politics of Ecstasy
Dreaming Neon Black / Dead Heart kinda fight it for 3rd place for me "_

IMO Godless is where their best songwriting met the best production. 
Enemies of Reality got horrible production as they were about to jump ship to another record company at the time and they rushed it and the producer/mixer did a hatchet job. I don't think they managed to make it a hit, they've polished it somewhat in the remix but IMO it is one of their weakest. Their last one is very close to awful IMO, I was very disappointed by the songwriting. 

Warrell Dane's solo LP "Praises to the War Machine" IMO is a more legit Nevermore album than their last.


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## Gmork (Jan 23, 2019)

Went on a mega nevermore binge last night fir hourrrss. Went to ebay afterwards and ordered politics which I LOOOOVVE some of my favorite production ive everheard, at least concerning guitars/bass. 
Got dead heart which seems amazing! And godless for its awesome techish ways.

But after that i got distracted and did the same with Nightwish which ive been meaning to get some of their stuff. 

Now im a happy boy......FOR NOW


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## SJShinn (Jan 23, 2019)

My top three:
Dead Heart in a Dead World
Enemies of Reality
This Godless Endeavor

The Obsidian Conspiracy kinda left me feeling like they weren't firing on all cylinders though. Unfortunate that was their last...


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## ArtDecade (Jan 23, 2019)

1. Dead Heart In A Dead World
2. Dead Heart In A Dead World
3. Dead Heart In A Dead World


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## IGC (Jan 23, 2019)

IMO, Enemies, Godless , Neon Black, ... but I think Lumis was at his Nevermore prime in Godless .


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## gunch (Jan 23, 2019)

Nevermore is one of those bands I'll check out and be like WOAH THIS IS GOOD SHIT but like never put them in normal rotation, should probably remedy that.


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## AdamMaz (Jan 23, 2019)

_This Godless Endeavor_ is accessible and was the one that got me hooked. The leads really stand out.
_Dreaming Neon Black_ is darker and has more range than the above. My favorite lyrically.
_Enemies of Reality _or_ Dead Heart In a Dead World_ are both more straight forward and have a lot of their best riffs.


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## MFB (Jan 23, 2019)

Gmork said:


> Went on a mega nevermore binge last night fir hourrrss. Went to ebay afterwards and ordered politics which I LOOOOVVE some of my favorite production ive everheard, at least concerning guitars/bass.
> Got dead heart which seems amazing! And godless for its awesome techish ways.
> 
> But after that i got distracted and did the same with Nightwish which ive been meaning to get some of their stuff.
> ...



Off topic for a minute, but on Nightwish, stop after Tarja left. Wishmaster, Oceanborn, Once, all great albums, but I feel like they went downhill in songs after she left; sounds more radio friendly.


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## The Mirror (Jan 24, 2019)

MFB said:


> Off topic for a minute, but on Nightwish, stop after Tarja left. Wishmaster, Oceanborn, Once, all great albums, but I feel like they went downhill in songs after she left; sounds more radio friendly.



Heavily comes down to taste, I'd wager. In my Top 10 Nightwish songs I'd probably only put one song from the times with Tarja, which would be Ghost Love Score.

Give me bombast, orchestras and huge choruses all day long. As a power metal band Nightwish were downright mediocre. As a symphonic/score-metal band they are top of the game.

Also @topic. Everything has been already said. That one riff in This Godless Endeavor is the best shit Nevermore did, imho.


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## Triple7 (Jan 24, 2019)

Ola Englund said:


> Music wise I think I like politics of ecstasy the most, but Dead Heart is just such a banger of an album. Their peak album. Riffs for days. People praise Jeff for being an incredible lead player, but his riff writing needs more credit




I have to agree with you there. I actually like him for his riffs...


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## DLG (Jan 24, 2019)

Dreaming Neon Black
Politics of Ecstacy
Enemies of Reality


EoR gets crapped on because the first mix was so dreadful, but the music is way more engaging and interesting than both DHIADW and TGE imo.


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## Descent (Jan 24, 2019)

Nevermore to me were one of those bands that didn't age well. Used to listen to them a lot but rarely crack anything from them these days. 

Nightwish - honestly, you can skip that band all together. It is ABBA with some light distorted guitar. Never cared for them.


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## ArtDecade (Jan 24, 2019)




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## wankerness (Jan 24, 2019)

Abba? What the hell? None of their stuff is remotely disco-y. They're mainly just a power metal band that take themselves too seriously much of the time but fortunately don't have a guy with his balls in a vice for a singer.

Oceanborn is a nostalgic favorite.

That Walking in the Air cover is pretty bad, mainly cause of her ludicrous accent.


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## Ralyks (Jan 24, 2019)

I'd argue Enemies of Reality is the closest they got to having some death metal elements. And boy, did that original mix suuuuuck, but the songs kicked ass.


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## Crundles (Jan 24, 2019)

Descent said:


> Nevermore to me were one of those bands that didn't age well. Used to listen to them a lot but rarely crack anything from them these days.
> 
> Nightwish - honestly, you can skip that band all together. It is ABBA with some light distorted guitar. Never cared for them.



Imagine being this wrong in TYOL 2019



I started with This Godless Endeavour, and did so at a pretty impressionable age, so to me it is their absolute best. At least from a song-writing point, I think it objectively is, though.

Dreaming Neon Black, as mentioned above, is darker, and a pretty good second choice.

Dead Heart has Insignificant, which is one of my favourite songs of theirs, and I find it more accessible than either Dreaming or Politics, so my vote for number 3.

The Obsidian Conspiracy has a few incredible songs, but isn't all that cohesive, and is sort of... slower and more monotonous, at least as far as Nevermore is concerned. Regardless, everyone should listen to Emptiness Unobstructed regardless of their overall opinion of the album, it's nice and straightforward and an overall banger.


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## Drew (Jan 24, 2019)

Dead Heart in a Dead World
Enemies of Reality
This Godless Endeavor


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## wankerness (Jan 24, 2019)

I got Dreaming Neon Black as a first album and HATED it, thanks to the vocals, and the total lack of what I perceived as "cool riffs" on the album meant there wasn't another "hook" on the album to get me into it. I listened to it twice before I resold it, and as a packrat, that puts it on a short list of about 10 albums that also includes Kid Rock - Devil Without a Cause, Disturbed - The Sickness and Moonspell - Irreligious.

A few years later I heard snippets of a song or two off of some later album that had some cool seven string riffs, but then I tried to listen to the album it came from and had the same reaction as DNB. As someone who loves seven string riffage but hated those vocals, what SHOULD I listen to? Or am I just wasting my time if I hated the vocals on DNB that much? They're probably one of the biggest gaps in 2000s metal land for me.

If the vocals are always the same and thus all these top 3 lists are exactly what I should be trying, then I'll just do that!


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## Drew (Jan 24, 2019)

wankerness said:


> I got Dreaming Neon Black as a first album and HATED it, thanks to the vocals, and the total lack of what I perceived as "cool riffs" on the album meant there wasn't another "hook" on the album to get me into it. I listened to it twice before I resold it, and as a packrat, that puts it on a short list of about 10 albums that also includes Kid Rock - Devil Without a Cause, Disturbed - The Sickness and Moonspell - Irreligious.
> 
> A few years later I heard snippets of a song or two off of some later album that had some cool seven string riffs, but then I tried to listen to the album it came from and had the same reaction as DNB. As someone who loves seven string riffage but hated those vocals, what SHOULD I listen to? Or am I just wasting my time if I hated the vocals on DNB that much? They're probably one of the biggest gaps in 2000s metal land for me.
> 
> If the vocals are always the same and thus all these top 3 lists are exactly what I should be trying, then I'll just do that!


Jeff Loomis' solo album. 

The vocals are always the same, and are definitely an acquired taste. I kinda dig them now though. DHIADW is six string in C# tuning, I think, is if you want cool seven string riffs I'd start with Enemies of Reality and subsequent albums.


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## Crundles (Jan 24, 2019)

wankerness said:


> I got Dreaming Neon Black as a first album and HATED it, thanks to the vocals, and the total lack of what I perceived as "cool riffs" on the album meant there wasn't another "hook" on the album to get me into it. I listened to it twice before I resold it, and as a packrat, that puts it on a short list of about 10 albums that also includes Kid Rock - Devil Without a Cause, Disturbed - The Sickness and Moonspell - Irreligious.
> 
> A few years later I heard snippets of a song or two off of some later album that had some cool seven string riffs, but then I tried to listen to the album it came from and had the same reaction as DNB. As someone who loves seven string riffage but hated those vocals, what SHOULD I listen to? Or am I just wasting my time if I hated the vocals on DNB that much? They're probably one of the biggest gaps in 2000s metal land for me.
> 
> If the vocals are always the same and thus all these top 3 lists are exactly what I should be trying, then I'll just do that!



The vocals are the same, since it's the same person singing in all of Nevermore's albums.

I dislike Jeff Loomis' solo works; he drifts way too far into shredland, whereas Nevermore has great riffs and structured songs - Born would be my recommendation - but you can give Plains of Oblivion a try. Then again, I also dislike Conquering Dystopia, so I must just be wrong.

What vocal style do you like? I'm genuinely curious; I personally prefer clean vocals, and I find Warrel Dane easily the best in metal - so reading something like this is mildly incomprehensible to me, even if I know tastes are subjective and all.


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## Ralyks (Jan 24, 2019)

Drew said:


> DHIADW is six string in C# tuning, I think



I'm pretty sure Dead Heart is where Jeff started using 7 strings. I remember because this was one of the albums that made me want to try 7 strings back in the day.


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## B.M.F. (Jan 24, 2019)

DHIADW is 7-string tuned down half a step (lowest string is a Bb...)


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## Evan89 (Jan 24, 2019)

Gmork said:


> Daaaaammmn!!! That guitar/bass tone on politics!!! UGHHH!!! lol.
> Kind of an ampeg vh140 sorta sound. Wonder what they recorded with. Thats flippin brutal!


They used a Mesa Mark IV on Politics.

I don't listen to them nearly as mush as I used to, but I'd still put them in my top 5-10 bands. Loomis was one of the main reasons I picked up a 7-string. My album ranking:

This Godless Endeavor/The Politics of Ecstasy
Dead Heart In A Dead World
Enemies Of Reality/Dreaming Neon Black (this one's a "grower")
Nevermore
The Obsidian Conspiracy

The In Memory EP is great too, recorded during the same sessions as Politics.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jan 24, 2019)

I just went and re listened to their entire discography. I still stand by my previous assessment, all of their albums are great, but this godless endeavour, dreaming neon, and enemies of reality are really truly exceptional. Dead heart or politics of ecstasy would probably be my next pick after those 3, they're both great but just don't resonate in the same with me as the others (except in terms of tasty riffs, of which there are tons).
obsidian is alright. loomis' solo stuff is basically "how many sweeps and diminshed runs can i do in an album?"


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## eggy in a bready (Jan 25, 2019)

Drew said:


> Jeff Loomis' solo album.
> 
> The vocals are always the same, and are definitely an acquired taste. I kinda dig them now though. DHIADW is six string in C# tuning, I think, is if you want cool seven string riffs I'd start with Enemies of Reality and subsequent albums.


i think Loomis played sevens on DHIADW. i know he played an ESP seven live around the turn of the century


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## p0ke (Jan 25, 2019)

Top 3? I'd say you can pretty much grab any 3 and they'll be great 
I think I've listened to their last album, The Obsidian Conspiracy, most because that came out after I'd already gotten into them. Don't get me wrong, it's a great album too, but I just don't know if I had listened to it as much if it had come at a different time. My favorite song on the album is She Comes in Colors - I really love how it builds up to the heavier stuff as opposed to kicking you straight in the nuts like almost all the other songs on the album 
Really hard to say which one of the older ones is the best though... I guess maybe my top3 would be
* This Godless Endeavor
* Enemies of Reality
* Dead Heart In A Dead World

The Politics of Ecstasy was the first album of theirs I heard and well... I had a hard time getting into the vocals but I really liked the rest of it. I had that album spinning in the car a lot back when I got my drivers license (wow, that's 12 years ago now, makes me feel old). I don't know why I didn't check out their other material around that time though, This Godless Endeavor would've been out already and it would've been a bit easier to get into


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## GuitarBizarre (Jan 25, 2019)

Crundles said:


> I dislike Jeff Loomis' solo works; he drifts way too far into shredland, whereas Nevermore has great riffs and structured songs - Born would be my recommendation - but you can give Plains of Oblivion a try. Then again, I also dislike Conquering Dystopia, so I must just be wrong.



Tragedy and Harmony is the best song Loomis has ever recorded. Change my mind.


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## wankerness (Jan 25, 2019)

Crundles said:


> What vocal style do you like? I'm genuinely curious; I personally prefer clean vocals, and I find Warrel Dane easily the best in metal - so reading something like this is mildly incomprehensible to me, even if I know tastes are subjective and all.



My reaction to DNB's vocals (and I just listened to some of it again this morning to confirm I wasn't just being a stupid kid) is that they sound like the guy from Disturbed being shaken violently by the shoulders. The vibrato is SO over the top and bad, and I really don't like his base voice, either. He's tolerable on like, the intro to the title track where he's not trying to do anything vibrato-y and thus doesn't sound like he's trying to escape being strangled.

I'm very particular about male singers. I mean, most guys I'm fine with and don't detract from the music, but there are only a few I'd say I really like. Daniel Gildenlow, especially on TPE/Remedy Lane, is my easy #1. I can't really think of anyone else in this general vocal range that I love in the metal/prog genre. Devin Townsend's alright (to my ears - he's WAY more than alright talent-wise) and occasionally great. I don't like his standard singing voice - ex, Storm, I only like the part towards the end where he starts bordering on screaming. I love his voice on SYL - City and most of Ocean Machine, he's done it for me less and less as the albums go on. "Night" might be my favorite song vocally of his. Dudes like the guy from Evergrey and the guy from Symphony X (on most songs...) are tolerable. I can't deal with almost any power metal guys I've heard.


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## DLG (Jan 25, 2019)

I find Gildenlow to be more melodramatic than Dane somehow. 

But I definitely get that's his voice isn't for everyone, it was truly one of a kind. 

When I first heard him (In Memory EP was the first thing I bought from them) my first association was that he sounded like an insane Geoff Tate who escaped from the mental institution. The harmonies he chooses are also very weird and can catch people off guard. 

If you want to give them another shot, check out Dead Heart. IMO he turned down the weirdness considerably from that album forward, which is why I'll always prefer pre-Dead Heart Warrel, when he sang with a lot more grit and overall weirdness and with an anything-goes approach.

Come Dead Heart, they were already trying to make fans outside of their small niche (hence songs like The Heart Collector, Believe in Nothing, etc.), and Dane probably made a conscious decision to tone his theatrics down a bit.


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## gunch (Jan 25, 2019)

As far as power/prog singers go dude from Spiral Architect (Oyvind something something...?) was amazing


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## wankerness (Jan 25, 2019)

silverabyss said:


> As far as power/prog singers go dude from Spiral Architect (Oyvind something something...?) was amazing



Yeah...that guy's definitely high on my list of "high singers I really don't like." His technique's impeccable, the vocal parts are fine in theory, I just don't like his voice. Great band, though. The bass playing more than overrides my dislike of the vocals, I've listened to that album a lot since buying it purely based on the cover art way back in like 2001 



DLG said:


> I find Gildenlow to be more melodramatic than Dane somehow.
> 
> But I definitely get that's his voice isn't for everyone, it was truly one of a kind.
> 
> ...



Oh, it's nothing about MELODRAMA that bugs me with Dane or the melodies, it's his voice and especially the unbelievably wide vibrato that seems omnipresent over anything distorted. I'm not very familiar with Geoff Tate (I've listened to Operation Mindcrime a couple times but can't recall what the vocals sounded like), but that is a funny description! Gildenlow can be hard to take for a lot of people and he definitely goes REALLY high, etc, but I always felt it matched the song, I loved his base voice, and he would go all over the place tonally instead of just sticking to some repetitive Disturbed-voice all the time. The only time I can remember him sounding like Dane is on a couple words in the middle of "Used." Plus, Pain of Salvation's vocal harmonies are second to none in the genre.

Thanks for the detailed info about the vocals. I will check out Dead Heart.


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## mastapimp (Jan 25, 2019)

wankerness said:


> My reaction to DNB's vocals (and I just listened to some of it again this morning to confirm I wasn't just being a stupid kid) is that they sound like the guy from Disturbed being shaken violently by the shoulders. The vibrato is SO over the top and bad, and I really don't like his base voice, either. He's tolerable on like, the intro to the title track where he's not trying to do anything vibrato-y and thus doesn't sound like he's trying to escape being strangled.
> 
> I'm very particular about male singers. I mean, most guys I'm fine with and don't detract from the music, but there are only a few I'd say I really like. Daniel Gildenlow, especially on TPE/Remedy Lane, is my easy #1. I can't really think of anyone else in this general vocal range that I love in the metal/prog genre. Devin Townsend's alright (to my ears - he's WAY more than alright talent-wise) and occasionally great. I don't like his standard singing voice - ex, Storm, I only like the part towards the end where he starts bordering on screaming. I love his voice on SYL - City and most of Ocean Machine, he's done it for me less and less as the albums go on. "Night" might be my favorite song vocally of his. Dudes like the guy from Evergrey and the guy from Symphony X (on most songs...) are tolerable. I can't deal with almost any power metal guys I've heard.



The first time i really gave nevermore a chance was when i saw them live at Gigantour 2005. Like you, i never really bought into the power metal vocals, but after seeing them live it all made sense. At that time, Warrel looked like he was at death's door and would blow over if he let go of the mic stand, but his voice was so powerful and it was clear that he was a master at his craft. The rest of the band played with a ton of energy and Warrel's voice alone made up for his lack of movement/frailty. I picked up TGE after that and never looked back. It's kind of like the first times i remember hearing Ozzy, Mustaine, Brian Johnson, etc... those vocalists are an acquired taste, but after a while you can't imagine the music without them. After i softened up to the vocals, I actually bought Warrel's first solo release when it came out a few years later and absolutely loved it (Peter Wichers is all over it). The posthumously released Shadow Work has some gems on it as well.


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## Ralyks (Jan 25, 2019)

What's funny is, part of the reason I love Gildenlows voice is he has some Warrel in there when he gets aggressive...


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## Drew (Jan 25, 2019)

Well, I stand corrected on DHIADW.


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## Crundles (Jan 25, 2019)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Tragedy and Harmony is the best song Loomis has ever recorded. Change my mind.





Don't make me fight you

Tragedy and harmony is incredible tho, no denying.



wankerness said:


> My reaction to DNB's vocals (and I just listened to some of it again this morning to confirm I wasn't just being a stupid kid) is that they sound like the guy from Disturbed being shaken violently by the shoulders. The vibrato is SO over the top and bad, and I really don't like his base voice, either. He's tolerable on like, the intro to the title track where he's not trying to do anything vibrato-y and thus doesn't sound like he's trying to escape being strangled.
> 
> I'm very particular about male singers. I mean, most guys I'm fine with and don't detract from the music, but there are only a few I'd say I really like. Daniel Gildenlow, especially on TPE/Remedy Lane, is my easy #1. I can't really think of anyone else in this general vocal range that I love in the metal/prog genre. Devin Townsend's alright (to my ears - he's WAY more than alright talent-wise) and occasionally great. I don't like his standard singing voice - ex, Storm, I only like the part towards the end where he starts bordering on screaming. I love his voice on SYL - City and most of Ocean Machine, he's done it for me less and less as the albums go on. "Night" might be my favorite song vocally of his. Dudes like the guy from Evergrey and the guy from Symphony X (on most songs...) are tolerable. I can't deal with almost any power metal guys I've heard.



Thank you for the serious reply, this is truly mesmerising to me. I was expecting either someone with a heavier, more distorted singing style, like Ihsahn, something along the lines of Jorn Lande, or maybe one of the post-black guys like Garm, or Vortex, and then I could've gone "ok understandable, I can see it".

If it's not too nosy, how old were you when you first heard Gildenlow?


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## wankerness (Jan 25, 2019)

Crundles said:


> Thank you for the serious reply, this is truly mesmerising to me. I was expecting either someone with a heavier, more distorted singing style, like Ihsahn, something along the lines of Jorn Lande, or maybe one of the post-black guys like Garm, or Vortex, and then I could've gone "ok understandable, I can see it".
> 
> If it's not too nosy, how old were you when you first heard Gildenlow?



Hmm, maybe 17? I might have gotten DNB before I got Remedy Lane. It was definitely towards the end of high school for both of them. I'm old now, almost 35!


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## DLG (Jan 25, 2019)

I definitely like all the singers everyone has mentioned. Love Gildenlow, his lyrics bother me a lot of the time, his voice never. 

And yeah, the harmonies and the counterpoint vocals they did a lot of over the first 3-4 albums are the best thing about them. 

I love Russ from Symphony X obviously too, to me he's the perfect metal singer, like you created him in a factory. He can do Dio, he can do CFH Anselmo, he can do the sweet Disney Ballad voice, literally anything you'd ever want from a metal singer, he nails effortlessly. 

But when it comes to all time fav singers, to me, personality and originality have always been more important than the actual quality of voice. That's why dudes like Warrel, John Arch from Fates Warning and Buddy Lackey from Psychotic Waltz are probably my favorite singers of all time. Because absolutely no one sounds like them. 

Actually, Oyvind from Spiral Architect is one of my favorite singers ever because he sounds like a perfect mix of Arch, Alder and Lackey to me. Check out Scariot - Momentum Shift if you want to hear him sing over some more straight-ahead thrash tunes and check out his first band Manitou - Entrance, if you want to hear him go Fates Warning on your ass. 

Also, I do need to add, my brother grew up listening to metal bands with me and he hated Warrel as well, but he also bought Sex & Religion in 1993 and gave it to me because "Vai rips, but there's some asshole screaming over all the songs and ruining them"  

So I definitely get when people don't like the same things in singers that you like, because he pretty much hates all of my favorite singers, but we agree on more "normal" guys like Allen, Gildenlow, Lande, Dio, etc.


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## eaeolian (Jan 25, 2019)

Dreaming Neon Black
The Politics of Ecstasy
Dead Heart In a Dead World

Everyone who says they like metal should own these three albums.

----
In order after that:
This Godless Endeavor 
In Memory
Enemies of Reality
Nevermore

You don't need The Obsidian Conspiracy. No one does.


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## eaeolian (Jan 25, 2019)

Gmork said:


> So far im REALLY digging politics and dead heart. Not feeling neon black too much though.



It grows on you. It's a mood piece - it's very harsh and dark, which sounds contradictory but it really is. However, it's their best songwriting, and that's saying something considering what's on either side of it.


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## eaeolian (Jan 25, 2019)

Demiurge said:


> Ugh, and I just remembered that Warrel Dane AND Tim Calvert, who played on this one, have passed.



Jim is not well, either. This saddens me.


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## Werecow (Jan 26, 2019)

eaeolian said:


> Jim is not well, either. This saddens me.


Steve Smyth from This Godeless Endevour had serious kidney disease leading to a transplant.
And of Course we all know Pat o'Brian(Polititcs of Ecstasty)'s current issues. It's like the band were cursed.


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## Ola Englund (Jan 26, 2019)

Love that Daniel of Pain of Salvation are getting some love in here. One of my fave prog bands.


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## Doug N (Jan 26, 2019)

This thread is a prime example of why I check out ss.org a few times a week. I don't know why I had never really gotten into Nevermore, probably because there are so many bands that I'm already into, plus any number of new bands that are worth listening to. This thread made me go back and listen again to them and I'm sitting here wondering how this band passed completely under the radar for me. 

Even though Loomis gets a lot of love he is still underrated. I agree with Ola, he's one of the riff kings. By the way, that's another reason ss.org is killer, freaking Ola Englund (speaking of riff monsters) is chiming in on shizz.


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## TheShreddinHand (Jan 26, 2019)

I don’t get all the obsidian hate. Sure it’s not their best but still some solid tracks.


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## eaeolian (Jan 27, 2019)

Werecow said:


> Steve Smyth from This Godeless Endevour had serious kidney disease leading to a transplant.
> And of Course we all know Pat o'Brian(Polititcs of Ecstasty)'s current issues. It's like the band were cursed.



Steve is doing well, at least - I see him every once in a while. Pat, yeah, that's a sad story.


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## Ralyks (Jan 27, 2019)

The thing about DNB being a mood piece; it is a pretty personal record. Basically about Warrels girlfriend joining a cult and then never heard from again, and Warrel seeing her screaming out to him in his dreams. Or the story of DNB is based on that event.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jan 27, 2019)

Doug N said:


> This thread is a prime example of why I check out ss.org a few times a week. I don't know why I had never really gotten into Nevermore, probably because there are so many bands that I'm already into, plus any number of new bands that are worth listening to. This thread made me go back and listen again to them and I'm sitting here wondering how this band passed completely under the radar for me.
> 
> Even though Loomis gets a lot of love he is still underrated. I agree with Ola, he's one of the riff kings. By the way, that's another reason ss.org is killer, freaking Ola Englund (speaking of riff monsters) is chiming in on shizz.



Same, was alive and kicking during their prime apparently but never listened to them. Putting Artist on Shuffle on Spotify so I can't figure out which albums I like.


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## Xaios (Jan 28, 2019)

Demiurge said:


> Give Dreaming Neon Black more of a chance and I guarantee it will grow on you. The only issue I have with it is that the title track feels almost like a crescendo of the album though it's relatively early, making the latter part feel a tad draggy but the songs are brilliant.


I actually prefer the latter half of Dreaming Neon Black, personally. The only songs I consistently listen to in the first half of the album are "I Am the Dog" and the title track (which is a fucking beautiful song, to be clear). From "The Fault of Flesh" onwards, I don't actually skip any songs for the rest of the album. The back half of that album is wonderfully depressive and atmospheric, something that Nevermore never really pulled off again afterwards.


Demiurge said:


> Ugh, and I just remembered that Warrel Dane AND Tim Calvert, who played on this one, have passed.


Fuck, I hadn't heard that Calvert had passed. 
_________
I'd say my top 3 Nevermore albums are Dreaming Neon Black, This Godless Endeavor and Dead Heart in a Dead World. DNB is my favorite by a pretty wide margin though. It's funny, I only got into them with TGE, hadn't even heard of them prior to that (granted, that album was only released about a year after I started _*really*_ getting into metal). At first, I loved TGE and DHIADW most (Enemies of Reality always felt like a step down from DHIADW aside from a few songs like the title track, "I, Voyager" and "Tomorrow Turned Into Yesterday"). The percussive, hyper-syncopated style was totally my jam. Eventually I got worn out of it though. Not that I don't still listen to some stuff like that, but Nevermore ceased being my go-to band for that kind of fix a long time ago. DNB, conversely, really grew on me over time. The oppressive ambience of that album, especially the latter half, is really something special, and is really complemented well by the occasional breakout into pure thrash riffs, such as "No More Will." The way Dane's vocals are mixed and mastered even sound like they're calling from under water. Maybe I'm projecting a bit based on the theme of the album, but that's totally the mental image I get.


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## Xaios (Jan 28, 2019)

Ola Englund said:


> Love that Daniel of Pain of Salvation are getting some love in here. One of my fave prog bands.


Heh, Pain of Salvation is one of my most often-used examples of how I've always seemed to get into bands at the wrong time. I started listening to them between BE and Scarsick. Naturally, I love everything from Entropia through BE, and don't-care-for-to-flat-out-dislike everything after. Even "In the Passing Light of Day," touted as a return-to-form of sorts, left me pretty cold.

My other prime example is In Flames. Got into them (and melodic death metal in general) right after STYE (an album that I actually seem to appreciate more than most IF fans) was released. When Come Clarity came out (by which point I'd completely absorbed myself into their back catalog), I spent a few weeks thinking, "hey, awesome, a return to heaviness and solos, great!" before realizing that I was actually rationalizing and that, if I was being honest with myself, I actually hated it, because it felt like it was pandering.


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## Ola Englund (Jan 28, 2019)

Xaios said:


> Heh, Pain of Salvation is one of my most often-used examples of how I've always seemed to get into bands at the wrong time. I started listening to them between BE and Scarsick. Naturally, I love everything from Entropia through BE, and don't-care-for-to-flat-out-dislike everything after. Even "In the Passing Light of Day," touted as a return-to-form of sorts, left me pretty cold.
> 
> My other prime example is In Flames. Got into them (and melodic death metal in general) right after STYE (an album that I actually seem to appreciate more than most IF fans) was released. When Come Clarity came out (by which point I'd completely absorbed myself into their back catalog), I spent a few weeks thinking, "hey, awesome, a return to heaviness and solos, great!" before realizing that I was actually rationalizing and that, if I was being honest with myself, I actually hated it, because it felt like it was pandering.


Yeah I’m kinda like a “first 4 albums” type of guy regarding POS


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## fps (Jan 28, 2019)

TheShreddinHand said:


> I don’t get all the obsidian hate. Sure it’s not their best but still some solid tracks.



sometimes she moves the chairs downstairs, and runs away....


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## Fierce_Swe (Jan 28, 2019)

Dead heart in a dead world, This godless endeavor, Enemies of reality and actually The Obsidian Conspiracy...


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## Xaios (Jan 28, 2019)

Ola Englund said:


> Yeah I’m kinda like a “first 4 albums” type of guy regarding POS


Truly an unfortunate acronym. 


fps said:


> sometimes she moves the chairs downstairs, and runs away....


While a lot of TOC doesn't really hold my attention, I actually love that song.


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## DLG (Jan 29, 2019)

Guitar-wise, other than the riffs, which are freaking amazing, in the early Nevermore albums, what I like most about DNB and POE is the noisey, atmospheric guitars that can be found all over the place, just like really simply bends and noisey little progressions under the riffs that really gives the music great atmosphere. 

Agree also with the second half of DNB, even though I find it perfect all the way through. No More Will is BY FAR my favorite Nevermore song of all time. 

Also a first 4 POS guy, though I'm actually more of a first 3 guy, Remedy Lane is definitely good, but it's kind of like their Black Album.


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## Ola Englund (Jan 29, 2019)

DLG said:


> Also a first 4 POS guy, though I'm actually more of a first 3 guy, Remedy Lane is definitely good, but it's kind of like their Black Album.


 I like Remedy Lane but yeah it's a lot softer,
Apparently the latest one is kind of back to the old style, my wife has been listening to it in the other room and it sounds promising. Will give it a chance.


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## DLG (Jan 29, 2019)

Eh, you probably won't like it. It's a return to heavy metal riffs and production and "proggy" sounds, but not close to the quality of the early stuff. I lot of it sounds really forced and it's still missing signature PoS stuff like really great solos, great use of keyboards and all the vocal counterpoint that made them so great in the beginning. 

There are a few nice songs/parts though.


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## Xaios (Jan 29, 2019)

DLG said:


> Eh, you probably won't like it. It's a return to heavy metal riffs and production and "proggy" sounds, but not close to the quality of the early stuff. I lot of it sounds really forced and it's still missing signature PoS stuff like really great solos, great use of keyboards and all the vocal counterpoint that made them so great in the beginning.
> 
> There are a few nice songs/parts though.


Pretty much my thoughts exactly. It feels like an imitation of old school PoS rather than the real deal. Sure, there's some good stuff in their, but it definitely feels labored and unnatural.


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## Ola Englund (Jan 29, 2019)

Too bad... ah well they still kick ass


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## TheShreddinHand (Jan 29, 2019)

Xaios said:


> Truly an unfortunate acronym.
> 
> While a lot of TOC doesn't really hold my attention, I actually love that song.



Same here, love that track.


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## wankerness (Jan 29, 2019)

DLG said:


> Also a first 4 POS guy, though I'm actually more of a first 3 guy, Remedy Lane is definitely good, but it's kind of like their Black Album.



It might be less DISTORTED, but it's not less technical than the previous couple IMO. It just is less flashy and in your face with it. Ex, we get things like that 5 against 4 chorus on Fandango or the nutty vocal lines and guitar playing on Chain Sling or the bizarro rhythm interplay on the outro to Dryad of the Forest instead of some really loud inscrutable time sig on the entrance to idioglossia or that contracting palm muted riff on Handful of Nothing. It's like the subtly virtuoso time sigs on Dedication, which I think was a good direction for them.

I love all their stuff utterly until BE, which had a couple great songs and a bunch I didn't care about. Then the next album was a nightmare, the single worst listening experience of my life, the album equivalent of The Office season 4 premiere.

Anyway, I listened to some later Nevermore. I still think the singer sounds like the guy from Disturbed trying to get out of a trap or something. The guitars are massively improved after DNB. I could probably get into this.


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## DLG (Jan 30, 2019)

wankerness said:


> The guitars are massively improved after DNB. I could probably get into this.



Are we talking production or actual riffing/playing, because I don't agree in either case


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## The Mirror (Jan 30, 2019)

Well, what I take from this thread is the crazy fact that Warrell Dane isn't regarded as one of the Top 10 best metal vocalists of all time by everyone.


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## wankerness (Jan 30, 2019)

DLG said:


> Are we talking production or actual riffing/playing, because I don't agree in either case



Riffing. I don't find anything on DNB to be remotely interesting. I always like chuggy 7 string stuff. Maybe it's more lazily written, I dunno, but I found it far more enjoyable.

I recall production being a problem for them, I remember back in the day hearing the production was so bad on one album they had to release it twice.


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## Evan89 (Jan 30, 2019)

wankerness said:


> Riffing. I don't find anything on DNB to be remotely interesting. I always like chuggy 7 string stuff. Maybe it's more lazily written, I dunno, but I found it far more enjoyable.
> 
> *I recall production being a problem for them, I remember back in the day hearing the production was so bad on one album they had to release it twice.*


That would be Enemies of Reality. The original mix was done by Kelly Gray, and was horribly muddy. Andy Sneap remixed it and gave it new life.


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## Descent (Jan 30, 2019)

Both mixes on Enemies are garbage, Andy at least made it listenable. They were quitting their label and decided to play hardball at that time, thus delivered a shit album. The label decided to call their bluff and got a shitty mixer to finish it.


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## The Mirror (Jan 30, 2019)

Descent said:


> Both mixes on Enemies are garbage, Andy at least made it listenable. They were quitting their label and decided to play hardball at that time, thus delivered a shit album. The label decided to call their bluff and got a shitty mixer to finish it.



Wait, what? Ambivalent and I, Voyager are easily in my Top 10 Nevermore songs.

Also the Sneap mix is totally listenable and I absolutely prefer it to the one of This Godless Endeavor, which imo has horrible sharp leads that just hurt my ears.

In fact it is part of Nevermore's holy trinity for me (Dead Heart, EoR and TGE) which are the best stuff they did.

Just as @wankerness said I can't really get into Neon Black. I haven't really listened to their first two records and Obsidian Conspiracy has some songs I'd consider filler.


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## eaeolian (Jan 30, 2019)

Xaios said:


> I actually prefer the latter half of Dreaming Neon Black, personally. The only songs I consistently listen to in the first half of the album are "I Am the Dog" and the title track (which is a fucking beautiful song, to be clear). From "The Fault of Flesh" onwards, I don't actually skip any songs for the rest of the album. The back half of that album is wonderfully depressive and atmospheric, something that Nevermore never really pulled off again afterwards.



"The Fault of the Flesh" through "No More Will" is as good as this band ever got, especially "Poison Godmachine".


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## eaeolian (Jan 30, 2019)

The Mirror said:


> Well, what I take from this thread is the crazy fact that Warrell Dane isn't regarded as one of the Top 10 best metal vocalists of all time by everyone.



He's also one of the top 5 metal lyricists of all time.



Wally said:


> Feed me from the heart of your denial
> The velvet sleep is conviction only fools know
> Dry your own eyes, I can't sympathize
> Plague your own dreams, I won't be following
> ...


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## fps (Jan 30, 2019)

Ola Englund said:


> I like Remedy Lane but yeah it's a lot softer,
> Apparently the latest one is kind of back to the old style, my wife has been listening to it in the other room and it sounds promising. Will give it a chance.



I absolutely love the latest Pain of Salvation release. The other ones I like/ can bear are Perfect Element and Remedy Lane.


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## Ralyks (Jan 30, 2019)

I’ll go with Warrel being among the top lyricist. Even if I have zero clue was he’s talking about half the time 

Also, since there’s been pretty much no mention of the s/t album, I’m just leaving this here, because I’d put it in my top 5 Nevermore tunes:


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## Xaios (Jan 30, 2019)

eaeolian said:


> "The Fault of the Flesh" through "No More Will" is as good as this band ever got, especially "Poison Godmachine".


For me it's mostly about the triptych ending (excluding "Forever," but that's more of a ) of "All Play Dead," "Cenotaph" and "No More Will." Such a beautiful, depressing sequence of music.

"Poison Godmachine" is pretty great too, and was actually the second Nevermore song I ever heard ("Final Product" being the first).


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## eaeolian (Jan 30, 2019)

Ralyks said:


> I’ll go with Warrel being among the top lyricist. Even if I have zero clue was he’s talking about half the time
> 
> Also, since there’s been pretty much no mention of the s/t album, I’m just leaving this here, because I’d put it in my top 5 Nevermore tunes:




That one, The Sanity Assassin and GodMoney are all quality tunes.


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## Vyn (Jan 30, 2019)

I honestly don't know how you can pick just 3 of their albums, they are all fantastic. About the only one that I wouldn't hold equal with the others would be TOC as it felt more like a Loomis solo record with Dane doing guest vocals than a Nevermore record.

The guitar tones on DNB and DHIADW are the stuff wet dreams are made of though. Jesus Christ <3


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## Triple7 (Jan 30, 2019)

wankerness said:


> Riffing. I don't find anything on DNB to be remotely interesting. I always like chuggy 7 string stuff. Maybe it's more lazily written, I dunno, but I found it far more enjoyable.
> 
> I recall production being a problem for them, I remember back in the day hearing the production was so bad on one album they had to release it twice.



The second riff on Beyond Within is straight fire. I heard that and I was hooked on Loomis. 

For all I know, Calvert wrote it...hahaha


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## Descent (Jan 31, 2019)

Best lyricist? Eh...he's OK, just take a look and you'll notice a recurrent heavy drug usage theme in it:
reality, obsidian, blind...he wears these words quick. Granted, he's into the deeper introspective stuff, less of the "f u" Overkill type of lyric. He kinda wore himself lyrically for me after 3-4 albums, but who wouldn't? 
Probably Fernando Ribeiro of the few that comes to mind.


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## Ralyks (Jan 31, 2019)

Of course there's a drug influence. Just look at the entire Politics of Ecstacy album. 42147 was basically about the creation of LSD!


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## eaeolian (Feb 1, 2019)

Ola Englund said:


> I like Remedy Lane but yeah it's a lot softer,
> Apparently the latest one is kind of back to the old style, my wife has been listening to it in the other room and it sounds promising. Will give it a chance.



It's better than the last few, but it ain't Remedy Lane or One Hour By The Concrete Lake.


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## eaeolian (Feb 1, 2019)

fps said:


> sometimes she moves the chairs downstairs, and runs away....



Warrel killed it on the lyric writing on that one, but the songs are just meh.


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## eaeolian (Feb 1, 2019)

Ralyks said:


> Of course there's a drug influence. Just look at the entire Politics of Ecstacy album. 42147 was basically about the creation of LSD!





Where do you think "The Seven Tongues of God" came from?


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## Triple7 (Feb 1, 2019)

eaeolian said:


> Warrel killed it on the lyric writing on that one, but the songs are just meh.



The riffs on that song are monstrous too. That verse riff... Really, the only song I listen to on that album.


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## Konfyouzd (Feb 1, 2019)

Dreaming Neon Black
Politics of Ecstasy 
Dead Heart in a Dead World

Let em discover Godless Endeaver on their own...


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## I Voyager (Feb 3, 2019)

Dead Heart, Enemies and Godless are definitely the “definitive” Nevermore records for me. Easily the best balance of sick riffs while also being accessible which I feel the earlier records lack a bit.


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## DLG (Feb 4, 2019)

one of the most underrated things about Nevermore is their doomier tracks on their early albums. Cenotaph, Lotus Eaters, Passenger, etc. 

Those types of tracks were swapped out for the "power ballads" like Believe in Nothing and Sentient 6 once they went 7 string.

I don't know if I consider WD a top 10 lyricist or vocalist, but I absolutely consider him one of the most original and unique voices in the history of metal and will always claim that he's was way more important to Nevermore's sound than Loomis.


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