# Do's and don'ts of trying/auditioning new band members



## Albionic (Sep 28, 2013)

Trying out a new singer tomorrow so i thought it might be fun to have a do's n don'ts thread of trying out new band members.

So guys amaze me with your wisdom


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## welsh_7stinger (Sep 28, 2013)

Don't have stupidly high expectations of the person you're auditioning.


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## Señor Voorhees (Sep 28, 2013)

Don't settle for sub par just because you're having a hard time finding somebody to fill the spot. Better to wait and get something closer to what you want than settling and being stuck with the decision.


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## Albionic (Sep 28, 2013)

when a female musician/singer answers your ad your bandmates will inevitably want to know if she is hot. resist the urge to message her to ask.


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## tedtan (Sep 28, 2013)

Having been in my share of bands over the years, I've learned that it's more important to find someone who fits in personality wise than technique wise (as long as they are a decent player). People can always develop technique, but they can't change who they are.


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## noUser01 (Sep 28, 2013)

tedtan said:


> Having been in my share of bands over the years, I've learned that it's more important to find someone who fits in personality wise than technique wise (as long as they are a decent player). People can always develop technique, but they can't change who they are.



This, totally.

If they are just a "decent" player but good enough to fill the spot that's fine, but if he's dedicated to his craft and you know he's willing to practice hard and work at his instrument then you've found a keeper.


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## Cynic (Oct 1, 2013)

tedtan said:


> Having been in my share of bands over the years, I've learned that it's more important to find someone who fits in personality wise than technique wise (as long as they are a decent player). People can always develop technique, but they can't change who they are.



^

you can work with someone to become a better musician. can't teach someone to be a better dude, though.


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## metal_sam14 (Oct 1, 2013)

tedtan said:


> Having been in my share of bands over the years, I've learned that it's more important to find someone who fits in personality wise than technique wise (as long as they are a decent player). People can always develop technique, but they can't change who they are.



So much this. 

I am building a lineup at the moment and I always go with the people I can chill, have a laugh and drink beer with. I used to be in a band with an amazing technical drummer, but the dude was a complete spooner with an authority problem and every second was painful.


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## Hollowway (Oct 1, 2013)

tedtan said:


> Having been in my share of bands over the years, I've learned that it's more important to find someone who fits in personality wise than technique wise (as long as they are a decent player). People can always develop technique, but they can't change who they are.



Truer words have never been spoken.


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## WhiteWalls (Oct 1, 2013)

Make sure the new member is on the same page in terms of what the band's goals are. A band that aims for a big record label is very different from a band that wants to play in the local bar a couple of times for fun.
This was the biggest flaw of my old band and despite us being good friends and capable of playing our instruments, it eventually led to a breakup.


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## Albionic (Oct 1, 2013)

Well we had the audition with our potential new singer. 

Was quite a disappointing affair i'd suggested some covers for her to learn but having not heard her voice before the ones i chose were completely wrong for her. She was a bag of nerves as she'd never been in a band before(she's been having lessons and her teacher said she was ready for a band) so i think she was too scared to tell me she wasn't comfortable with them. 

She had trouble remembering words to begin with and mumbled her way through the first two songs.

then we did one that suited her better and i heard enough to convince me there is a voice in there somewhere But she was so crippled by nerves that i still don't feel we have heard what she can really do

Now i can sympathize with nerves/stage fright having suffered a little myself so i have convinced the band to give her another shot. 

i made her pick songs she thinks she can really pull off and have done all i can to get her to relax. 

But bottom line she's gonna have to really come out of herself and nail it next week


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## ellengtrgrl (Oct 1, 2013)

tedtan said:


> Having been in my share of bands over the years, I've learned that it's more important to find someone who fits in personality wise than technique wise (as long as they are a decent player). People can always develop technique, but they can't change who they are.


 

VERY true! I've been in bands where personality clashes occurred. It was no fun to say the least!


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## Alphanumeric (Oct 3, 2013)

Have them send a video of themselves playing your songs or if you don't have any then get them to record a cover of something of the style you play in.


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## sage (Oct 3, 2013)

A good performance comes from preparation and relaxation. That's pretty much all there is to it. You can't influence how prepared someone is for an audition, but you can influence the environment to ensure that they are relaxed. Just be easy going and low stress so you can allow the person trying out to be their best. 

Hope her second audition is better than the first!


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## Tyler (Oct 11, 2013)

Along with personality, see if they know how to write and not just cover your stuff or anyone elses. It always sucks to be the only person that knows how to write anything. 

The band I just tried out for had me learn their song by ear which worked out in my favor, and they like my samples Ive written. So you can do something along those lines if they seem like the right fit personality wise. Even if its a vocalist, theres still a lot they can do vocal wise as a try out you know?


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## Edika (Oct 11, 2013)

A certain do is to record the practice session and listen it afterwards. You might miss a lot of things while you are playing the songs and trying to listen what the person can do. Worst case scenario you'll have a good laugh if the person auditioning is bananas.


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## Rev2010 (Oct 11, 2013)

Here's my way of doing things so far:

*1. Age requirement.* I'm 39 and have no problem playing with anyone younger or older but my requirement is you have to be 21 or over. I don't want to deal with not being able to play a club cause of a band members age. I know I know, legally they are performers so they are supposed to be let in for the gig but a lot of club owners don't know that and put up a fight. Plus I don't want to deal with teenage drama, constantly being broke, etc.

*2. You absolutely must have SOMETHING recorded that I can hear!* There are an overabundance of responders that have _zero_ material to listen to. Nope, you ain't coming over my place without me hearing something first because it never ever works out. If you're a capable enough musician or singer you should have something recorded - it's the f*u*cking year 2013. Bust out your cell and record something, no excuses for not being able to record something.

*3. Person trying out must be into the same, NOT similar, styles of music.* I've had way too many people with influence lists a mile long that span from Christina Aguilera to Korn. Trust me, seeing one or two metal bands does not mean that person can do metal or fit into a metal project.

*4. Person must have respective gear or be able to acquire respective gear.* For example, I play 6, 7, and 8 string guitars. I've had more than a few respond to my ads (which state I play all three) saying they only have a 6-string guitar and don't have the money to get a 7. Well, if 90% of my tracks are 7 and 8 based that won't work will it?

*5. Person must be within enough range, capable, and willing to make the trips over.* I've had times people were 2 hours away and say they were willing to make the trips over (usually once a week with a skip every few weeks) and trust me... the 2 hours each way wears on people and they often eventually fall through.

*6. Hang out, don't just play.* If the person can at least play well enough to be able to keep up and contribute to the band the other most important thing left is compatibility on a personal level. Do you find humor in the same things? Do you have similiar opinions about topics? Or are you complete opposites? I had a singer over and he was a really nice good Christian guy, did a bunch of missionary work etc. Really great guy. BUT, my music is angry and I generally hate the human race  (not you SS.org guys though ). I just didn't see any of that aggressiveness or anger in the guy so he was a complete non-fit for my music.

Only thing I'm considering changing is: Decent recordings only. Too hard to tell via a crappy audio clip that plays simple stuff. And no more Youtube vids where the person says, "It's not metal, it's me singing lead in a choir, but it's all I have to show my singing potential." No Youtube vids where the guy is singing into a PA so loud the camera mic is distorted beyond comprehension. No, it has to be a decent recording and in the same style as what I'm doing.


Rev.


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## Lava Joe (Oct 17, 2013)

I think Rev makes a good few points, some unfortunately sad, but true points as well.

The problems only seem to worsen the younger they are, too, which sucks when you are a younger musician that IS motivated to "get it done, kbye" and nobody else is understanding that.


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## guitarfishbay (Oct 17, 2013)

Albionic said:


> Well we had the audition with our potential new singer.
> 
> Was quite a disappointing affair i'd suggested some covers for her to learn but having not heard her voice before the ones i chose were completely wrong for her. She was a bag of nerves as she'd never been in a band before(she's been having lessons and her teacher said she was ready for a band) so i think she was too scared to tell me she wasn't comfortable with them.
> 
> ...



It says your location is London - there should be loads of singers about. Can I ask how you are advertising and what your goals are? 

I'm in a serious originals rock band who are auditioning for a singer. We are as serious as you will find 4 guys with day jobs. Everyone owns a car, a gigging rig, is a decent musician and absolutely is willing to make a go of it. We meet every week to write and rehearse and have become good friends, but none of us can sing to the standard we can play instruments. We had a singer, had written a set and were ready to book gigs, but they moved countries with their education and as such we have been advertising again in the past month. We've decided to keep the instrumentation but bin the lyrics and melodies of our set, so we can look again with fresh eyes, with the idea the instrumentation would get re-structured anyway when we write with the new singer. FWIW we use Gumtree and Joinmyband, and pay for featured listings because you tend to get way more replies.

Prior to finding our first singer we advertised for months and met a lot of nice people but nobody as serious as us or suitable for the role. We just had crappy rehearsal room recordings of us. It got to a point where we thought .... it, called up a local rock/metal producer and went to a studio.

We now have proper studio recordings, a video of us, and a picture of the band all on our advert. The difference this made to the amount of replies we get compared to when we just had a shitty one mic recording of us and no picture or video is massive as far as we're concerned. 

Our format is as follows

Our advert has our goals, clips, videos, and brief bio. We state on our advert that we require a bio, goals, and clips from anyone interested. We've found the easiest way to get people without pro recordings to send clips is to tell them to use an iphone/smartphone and then email it over. We figure if they are not willing to do that (or at least explain why they can't) then they aren't serious. Also, sometimes you can tell from a clip that a person isn't suitable - this way you can politely say no and not waste your or their time with a face to face audition. We don't ask for pictures, because A) people can change their look if they want to and B) some people might not look great in a picture but when they perform they just look cool or have a great energy that more than makes up for it. Not everyone you meet will be suitable and that is the nature of the beast, but at least the people we meet now are serious and can sing.

We do a short first round audition. Usually 30 minutes. We do not ask them to write material for this, it is just to see if they can perform and if we fit together. We say hello, have a quick bit of banter, provide them with some fresh foam earplugs and perform a track for them as if we were playing live at a gig. That way they know what we're about and know we're not time wasters as a band. Then we let them sing two songs - first one must be a rock song with energy (style of the band) and the second one can be free choice to show off another style if they want. After that we usually have time for 10-15 minutes of chatting to see if there is any chemistry and shared goals. We then ask for time to discuss it and say we'll be back in touch within a few days. This way you don't waste someone's time asking them to learn originals or write lyrics/melody lines for a band if you're not likely to pick them. 

If we like them we do a 90 minute jam session two weeks later, to give them time to learn/write. Then we make our decision. Last time round the first person who had a 90 minute session clicked with us and got the gig, sadly she's now living in Europe, such is life. We've seen 5 people so far in the past month, only one really fitted in with us and got booked in for a second session and we've not seen them the second time yet. Nobody we've seen was shit though, just a combination of wanting different things or just not feeling the chemistry.

Our goals are to try and make the best music we can and to try and make the band the biggest success it can be. We're up for touring and we are willing to self fund recording at this stage. All we can do is try, and we all want to. So for our goals we need someone who is good enough, fits in with us, and really wants to go for it and prioritise their free time for music. Finding people who can sing is one thing, them fitting in is another, the hardest is finding someone who ticks both boxes and is willing to commit the time and has the drive.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 17, 2013)

Do at least *some* screening even if it's just a phone convo with the person to get a feel for their personality...

I recently tried working with a singer against my better judgement. 

He came over and I showed him a few of my tracks and he seemed to like them. His voice was decent, but he was also SUPER nervous... Like puppy-in-a-new-home nervous. Later that night... Around 2AM to be exact, he texts me and asks if I'm gay...

Weird... I assume this means he is but I figure that has nothing to do with music, right? Right...

So he comes over the next time and the majority of the band is there this time. He later texts me again asking if people I couldn't possibly know have been talking shit to me about him. Now he strikes me as a bit crazy... And he knows where I live. 

Do over the phone personality screenings! 

I used to be against Rev's point about being into the same kind of music. Folks who are into similar stuff can work. But in the case of this singer again... He was an R&B guy and I come from more of a metal/fusion/post-whatever-the-fvck/jazz-ish background; the main keys player is metal/classical; and the drummer is kind of an oddball with drum n bass, house, trance, etc... But we make it work. I recently picked up another guitar player that seems to live and breathe fusion and a second keyboard player that's got a bit of a hip hop/techno influence. 

I don't see any room in there for love songs... 

Rev's last point about hanging out with people is seriously a big one too. I met my keys player in college and we've been hanging out for YEARS. I met my drummer through a mutual friend of the keys player as well. Not only that but we have a lot of similar interests. Myself, the drummer and the othe guitar player are all software developers... The 2nd keys player is a friend of the guitar player and he kind of seemed to just instantly fit in so it works. When the people playing get along well outside of music it kind of seems to come through in the music. It's weird how after knowing someone you can hear a sequence of pitches and almost instantly know what chord change is coming or that one is coming at all... Dat chemistry...


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## Rev2010 (Oct 17, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> Later that night... Around 2AM to be exact, he texts me and asks if I'm gay...



For me only weird shit follows when people I'm going to try out bring out the gay word - and I have no problems at all with gay people. One instance for example:

I had this singer contact me years ago interested in my music and trying out. We chatted for like 2-3 days back and forth online about the music and guiding him on the song meanings, etc. Then out of nowhere he's like, "I have to tell you something... I think you should know before I audition". So I say, "Sure, what's up?". He then tells me he's gay and nervous we won't accept him. I told him, "Dude, I couldn't give two shits. So what?, not a problem with us at all". He acts all relieved but for the next few days keeps going on about being gay and nervous no matter how much I tell him we don't care. Day of the audition he emails me to tell me he's bailing out and he doesn't feel right and is still shy about being gay. I mean WTF!?? Wasted all my time back and forth with emails and guiding him on the songs to flake out at the LAST second!?? I was quite pissed but didn't bother writing back.


Rev.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 17, 2013)

There's sexuality and then there's music... When you're famous you can worry about that shit...


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## guitarfishbay (Oct 17, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> Now he strikes me as a bit crazy... And he knows where I live.



Honestly, if you can at all afford it I'd always meet people in a private rehearsal room. It is just much safer that way. A lot of us have too much gear at our homes to let some potential weirdo find out where we live.


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## Rev2010 (Oct 17, 2013)

guitarfishbay said:


> Honestly, if you can at all afford it I'd always meet people in a private rehearsal room. It is just much safer that way. A lot of us have too much gear at our homes to let some potential weirdo find out where we live.



It's definitely smarter and a little safer, but I think these days it's way too easy to find where someone lives using the internet. All you need is a name and town or city where they live and you can usually find their residence especially if they've been posting around the net for years. And if you have a phone number it's even easier. I've scoped out a number of people before they came over my house and was able to find out tremendous amounts of info just based solely off a name and email address. Not disagreeing with you at all, just saying it only helps a little.


Rev.


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## sonnybb (Oct 19, 2013)

On the flip side:
If you are auditioning for a band, don't not have something prepared, if the band doesn't say what to prepare, PREPARE SOMETHING ANYWAY!!! Something, even a song to play by yourself (our vocalist did this because we didn't specify what to do and he blew us a way, he had a cool song choice too) And absolutely do not come in as if it is your band to sway and mold as you wish. That caused a big issue just recently with my band. Personality is 90% of the battle, but if you come in weak, you've already dropped to the bottom of the list.
When we auditioned people, we told them to learn songs and they didn't. We sent tracks, we even had a guy bash on the recording quality. Of the people who actually prepared something, we had one guy who was super rude to our old guitarist and one who just wasn't right for us despite being super cool, (we even did a gig with his band a bit later).


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## flint757 (Oct 19, 2013)

Señor Voorhees;3744802 said:


> Don't settle for sub par just because you're having a hard time finding somebody to fill the spot. Better to wait and get something closer to what you want than settling and being stuck with the decision.



As an end goal I agree, but allowing someone to fill in temporarily will get you more exposure to hopefully find someone who may be a better fit.



Rev2010 said:


> *4. Person must have respective gear or be able to acquire respective gear.* For example, I play 6, 7, and 8 string guitars. I've had more than a few respond to my ads (which state I play all three) saying they only have a 6-string guitar and don't have the money to get a 7. Well, if 90% of my tracks are 7 and 8 based that won't work will it?



I agree and disagree with this (mostly agree though ). Disagree because interesting things can come from a band not necessarily playing in the exact same key or tuning. A 6 string and an 8 string can be pretty interesting together if they know what they are doing.


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## ara_ (Oct 20, 2013)

flint757 said:


> A 6 string and an 8 string can be pretty interesting together if they know what they are doing.



Pomegranate Tiger do this, and they sound fine


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## WhiteWalls (Oct 20, 2013)

I agree with everything except the "must be able to acquire gear", because unless your band is pretty big with a label, tours etc, no one is going to get new gear specifically to play in your band.
I absolutely agree that a serious band should treat their gear "as a band", rather than using whatever each member likes, but unless you are at a very serious level this is not gonna happen and you either acquire the gear and make it available to new members, or you have to compromise in some ways (switching from 8 to 7 strings in an example)


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## Albionic (Oct 21, 2013)

guitarfishbay said:


> It says your location is London - there should be loads of singers about. Can I ask how you are advertising and what your goals are?
> 
> I'm in a serious originals rock band who are auditioning for a singer. We are as serious as you will find 4 guys with day jobs. Everyone owns a car, a gigging rig, is a decent musician and absolutely is willing to make a go of it. We meet every week to write and rehearse and have become good friends, but none of us can sing to the standard we can play instruments. We had a singer, had written a set and were ready to book gigs, but they moved countries with their education and as such we have been advertising again in the past month. We've decided to keep the instrumentation but bin the lyrics and melodies of our set, so we can look again with fresh eyes, with the idea the instrumentation would get re-structured anyway when we write with the new singer. FWIW we use Gumtree and Joinmyband, and pay for featured listings because you tend to get way more replies.
> 
> ...



Location says london but i'm actually in kent. I'm using this website.
Join My Band - Musicians Wanted/Available, Find Band Members Online

The singer in question didn't really work out not terrible but just not right. But we had another come in yesterday and it looks as though she's gonna fit in quite nicely so its all worked out. 

We haven't had any really bad people come try out for us except when we were looking for drummers. You would not believe how many people think they can play drums but can't keep basic time


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 21, 2013)

haha, like five years ago looking for drummers, you wouldn't believe how many people think not having a job (other than full-time alcoholic) is the only requirement to be a drummer.


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## Osorio (Oct 21, 2013)

Rev2010 said:


> *2. You absolutely must have SOMETHING recorded that I can hear!* There are an overabundance of responders that have _zero_ material to listen to. Nope, you ain't coming over my place without me hearing something first because it never ever works out. If you're a capable enough musician or singer you should have something recorded - it's the f*u*cking year 2013. Bust out your cell and record something, no excuses for not being able to record something.



Good point, but I sort of disagree. Recording is a really different beast than live playing. It's nice to know that people can record, but I've seen guitarists that were studio beasts and extremely sloppy live, or simply lacked any energy. In the end, it is very much up to what you are looking for.



> *3. Person trying out must be into the same, NOT similar, styles of music.* I've had way too many people with influence lists a mile long that span from Christina Aguilera to Korn. Trust me, seeing one or two metal bands does not mean that person can do metal or fit into a metal project.



Also don't really agree&#8230; Different musical tastes is a good thing, specially if they write. It obviously won't work if they don't really like the genre you are going for (I auditioned to a Power Metal band once, because they were convinced they played Progressive Rock&#8230; I enjoy the living shit out of metal, specially back then, but freaking hate Power Metal and would have not auditioned in the first place if they were not stupid about their own music).



> *4. Person must have respective gear or be able to acquire respective gear.* For example, I play 6, 7, and 8 string guitars. I've had more than a few respond to my ads (which state I play all three) saying they only have a 6-string guitar and don't have the money to get a 7. Well, if 90% of my tracks are 7 and 8 based that won't work will it?



Why not take advantage of the fact that they don't have the same gear as you and write accordingly? This, to me, is the single most missed opportunity in bands today. I used to play in a band where I had my guitar tuned to a completely different tuning (an Open tuning, nonetheless), always, and the other guitarist had his in E Standard. I loved to write for that situation because the options were suddenly wide open. Just a thought.


I definitely agree with recording the audition though. During the thing, specially if the music is on the technical side, most people won't be paying that much attention to the audition and will actually just be focused on doing their part.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Oct 21, 2013)

sage said:


> A good performance comes from preparation and relaxation. That's pretty much all there is to it. You can't influence how prepared someone is for an audition, but you can influence the environment to ensure that they are relaxed. Just be easy going and low stress so you can allow the person trying out to be their best.
> 
> Hope her second audition is better than the first!



Yup, on the prepararation, it's good to have a couple songs for them to study ahead of time. That way you'll know if they are the type to do the necessary work to be a good band member. If they show up knowing the stuff you agreed on - great! If they show up with a 12 pack and talking about just winging it...not so great


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## Rev2010 (Oct 21, 2013)

For the record I said, "Here's my way of doing things so far". These are my preferences. Some of you are arguing points like, "Well a 6 string and an 8 string together can be interesting". But I don't want that, I want to be able to do two 8 strings playing along together, at times the same riffs for fatness and at times different riffs for complexity and variety. I simply can't join up with a guitarist that only has a 6-string and can't ever afford, or want, to get a 7 or 8 string. So why would I entertain bringing such a guitarist on board? It's not going to be how I want to write music. 

Secondly, gear... I'm not saying a band member needs to be able to buy thousands of dollars worth or gear at my command or anything silly like that. As I said, I write on a 6, 7, and 8. I have an extra 8 string at home and eventually will have an extra 7. A guitarist is welcome to use mine while over at my place. But if that guitarist refuses to ever get himself his own 7 and 8 for when it comes time for live shows then why do I want to play with someone who refuses to provide their own gear? I've been down that road and will not go through it again! I had a keyboardist many years back that played my keyboard and I told him for live use he can use it but he'll need to buy a stand for it - he refused! I don't need people like that. 

In regards to a recording - I'm talking about hearing something that can show someone can actually play before having them come over. I can't see how this doesn't make some sense. I'm not talking about a pro recording, just a decent (ie. clear) recording that one can use to gauge if someone can play or sing well enough. Every person that has provided a crappy recording, or no recording, has been a let down. 


Rev.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 21, 2013)

I agree with the recording and instrument points for sure....guitarists are always interested until they see I play an 8-string, cause they're not interested in buying a new guitar....singers think that a PA and microphone should be provided to them.....had a similar keyboard situation years, and years ago....pianist could play, but didn't own a keyboard..I had a shitty little Kawai student board that dude used, and he finally busted it...so he quit. I never need someone to provided me with a professionally produced audio sample, but don't play me an audio file you recorded on your phone of you playing a minor pentatonic solo on your buddie's mini guitar with the built in amp to showcase your abilities....


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## Haunted Cereal (Oct 21, 2013)

I agree with pretty much everything that's been said. Especially the bit about not having too high of expectations. I had a bit of a horror story a while back. I was shredding on lunch when I worked at gc a few years ago and this guy stood there watching me and sat down behind me and started playing one his bands songs and my ear caught it and we played off eachother for a minute. He asked me to audition and emailed me really lo fi versions of a couple songs and apparently expected me to learn them by ear and write solos in two days... Pretty sure dude had no concept of music theory. He called it djent, but the tone was far from djenty, it had no discernable time signature and no particular key... I showed up with my Fryette, 2x12 and gitter, freshly setup to their tuning and all he did was bitch that I hadn't brought any pedals and didn't know their material well enough to jump in at any point. He ended up going out for a smoke and me and the drummer got to talking and turns out we both love Necrophagist so we played through Stabwound and Ignominious and Pale, with (flawless, I might add) solos, and had a great time. Dude gets back and completely disregards all of that and just spends all night bitching... I left and never followed up or answered repeated emails and texts after that. Don't be a dick because you think you're full of vision and inspiration, and don't be rude out of jealousy and pride because some kid half your age, with better gear can play circles around you. Sorry, I had to get that out. /rant. I cannot stress how important it is to get along with your bandmates, it doesn't always come naturally either. Artistic tension can make great music when you work together, but you have to be mature and respectful and figure out how to deal with issues when they come up. They will eventually no matter what, you just have to remember to be excellent to each other. I'm pretty sure everyone that posted in here doesn't have their head up their ass, fortunately, so this is all rather void advice on my part. I do kinda feel like it's important for a band to have it's own pa though. It's nice if a singer is professional enough to have one but I don't think it's something to be expected. I'd rather be accountable and have my own setup at the rehearsal spot. Being talented and dedicated =/= having gear. Some of the most passionate people I've worked with have been borderline homeless and had the most grimy, barely functional excuses for instruments.


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## MrPowers (Oct 21, 2013)

My number 1 thing is:
Making sure the candidate has the appropriate gear. I'm a tone freak and just cant handle Marshall MG, Line 6, or some other cheap toneless gear. It's like dragging cheese graters along my already damaged ears. They have to have a guitar that's properly intonated and doesn't unreasonably go out of tune when fretting in random places. And they have to have the rest of a rig that can keep up with mine. It doesn't have to be thousands of dollars. But it can't be something thats unreliable or will get lost next to my amp.

My number 2 is making sure they are close to my skill level. They have to be able to keep up with my riffs and they have to be able to progress along with me. I don't mind them being significantly better, I just don't want them to get bored.

As for a singer, the list goes in order as follows:
1. Tone
2. Volume/Projection
3. Consistency
4. Personality (Stage Presence. Kind of needs to mesh with the band. But this can be taught to an extent.)
5. Do they have their own microphone/preferences? (This isn't a deal breaker, it's just nice to know that they have an ear for what they like.)


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 21, 2013)

I have a PA (now) but for the most part a guitarist, bassist, and drummer have little use for one in a rehearsal situation (barring backing/clicks etc) and I'm not sure why vocalists assume there will be one for them to use. I'm kind of a dick with my PA gear though, too...I play in an instrumental metal band that plays lots of small bar shows and about half the time we end up supplying the (my) sound system, when most of the rooms we play only require mic'ed vocals...


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## ghost_of_karelia (Oct 21, 2013)

MrPowers said:


> My number 1 thing is:
> Making sure the candidate has the appropriate gear. I'm a tone freak and just cant handle Marshall MG, Line 6, or some other cheap toneless gear. It's like dragging cheese graters along my already damaged ears. They have to have a guitar that's properly intonated and doesn't unreasonably go out of tune when fretting in random places. And they have to have the rest of a rig that can keep up with mine. It doesn't have to be thousands of dollars. But it can't be something thats unreliable or will get lost next to my amp.
> 
> My number 2 is making sure they are close to my skill level. They have to be able to keep up with my riffs and they have to be able to progress along with me. I don't mind them being significantly better, I just don't want them to get bored.
> ...



Not everyone has the means to get expensive gear. In fact, some of the best tone I've ever heard has been dialled through a "bad" amp. If you know what you're doing, you can make broken glass sound like melted butter. There's being a gear freak, and then there's just being a dick about it.


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## MrPowers (Oct 21, 2013)

jarvncaredoc said:


> Not everyone has the means to get expensive gear. In fact, some of the best tone I've ever heard has been dialled through a "bad" amp. If you know what you're doing, you can make broken glass sound like melted butter. There's being a gear freak, and then there's just being a dick about it.



I'm really not trying to be a jerk about it. I understand some people can't afford it and that the "tone is in your fingers." Which I believe is about 90% of it. But good equipment makes a difference. "Bad" amps can sound good, but I have yet to hear someone who sounded good through a 'bad" amp, not sound better through a good amp. If you can't afford it or if you don't have something because you've never needed it, that's one thing. If you haven't upgraded because it sounds "good enough" that's what bothers me. I'm kind of a perfectionist, sometimes to a fault.

The truth is, anyone can learn how to intonate a guitar with just a little trial and error. And after you get to a certain level, you really do need reliable gear that's at your level. I had a headlining, touring band asking to borrow my amp the other night. The night before they borrowed another band's 6505. I talked to their guitarist and they said that their amp wasn't working before they left for the tour. It just doesn't seem right to me that they can go on tour with faulty equipment and mooch of the opening acts. I've seen this far too many times. Maybe I'm wrong, correct me if so.


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 22, 2013)

Tonight, I learned a valuable lesson regarding humility and unrealistic expectations.

Relevant background: My band has been together in what I'd term a legitimate form for a little over a year, founded when my bassist friend and I met a drummer who was both not a flake and interested in what we were trying to do. Until now, we've had it very easy with this exceptional drummer and then his talented ladyfriend singer falling into our proverbial laps. In between adding these two, we added a cello player, who the bassist and I had known for a number of years. The bassist is one of my best friends, we've been playing together off and on for well over a decade. We didn't have formal auditions because we were new, didn't think we were good enough to demand it, and had no idea how to go about it. we were flying blind, and so far we were three for three. Never one to let us keep our guards down for long, Murphy visited his terrible law upon our humble group.

A few months ago, I made friends with a relatively green musician who has been playing a little over a year. The band had been entertaining the idea of another drummer to allow ours, who is a percussion major, to focus on non-kit percussion, which is his strongest interest and skill. He's great on the kit, stellar in fact, but we'd like to put him where he really wants to be. Anyway, we decided to give the new guy a go. He is great fun to play balls-to-the-wall heavy jams with, but has a poor grasp of dynamic playing and wasn't up to the level of songwriting we're trying to achieve. 

We'd had some disagreements over dynamics and general use of practice time the night before, which was far from the first time. This came to a head tonight, while I was hanging out at bassist's house waiting for the rest of the band. I received what I interpreted to be an offensive and passive-aggressive text from new guy, and ego on my part led to a thoroughly regrettable exchange. With the bassist's agreement, I ended the exchange by telling new guy in what I imagined at the time to be a diplomatic tone that he did not have the experience we expected. As you may be guessing, this went over incredibly poorly. I did not respond to any further text messages, of which I received a few, realizing I was only stirring up shit at this point and making things worse (too late, alas). ....ing text messages. ....ing cell phones.

The rest of the band showed up soon after, and it was at this point that I began to see the depth of my error. Neither of the others were remotely surprised when we told them what had happened, and seemed to have been expecting it. It had been largely at my urging that the others had accepted him in the first place, and we as a group had never discussed expectations or what to do (or how to even figure out) if he (or anyone) wasn't a good fit. 

I wrote a detailed letter to him when I got home, in which I made an attempt to clarify some of the rather awful things I'd said to him in text. I apologized to him for my egotistical behavior, and explained that I had ridiculously unrealistic expectations, which was obviously not fair. I'd also misrepresented him to the rest of my band by assuming I could be some sort of magical judge of musical ability, which empowered me to boldly recommend we play with him. The fact at the end of the day is that I misled him as well as my band. I am the asshole.

I am glad to report that was sufficient to extinguish the conflagration I had unleashed upon this Bridge (Nearly) Too Far, and I have managed to save a friendship as well as a good jam buddy, and the band had an excellent and productive songwriting session tonight. I am ever so thankful to have learned this lesson early and with so few bumps to show for it.

I implore you all to learn from my tragic errors and shitty behavior. I certainly have.

Related:


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## Albionic (Oct 22, 2013)

I have a similar tale of woe 
having just told you i had found us a singer a bizarre situation has come up. Its important to realize our previous singer is the bass players wife and before she had a baby they ran the band. When the singer left to have her baby the bass player handed the reins to me saying with new baby he didn't have time. fair enough i thought. the bass player also asked if in the future his wife could have some involvement in the band i was thinking backing vocals. 

So i go ahead and i find us a great singer who was really impressed with us and keen to write songs which we wanted to get into anyway. Unknown to me the bass player tells the new singer that his wife will be back in a few weeks and will share lead vocals.

so i get a message from the new singer that she doesn't want to step on anyone's toes so she is out. 

Knowing the bass player and his wife very well i know their home situation and i am pretty skeptical that she will in fact be returning and if she does that her appearances will be anything more than sporadic. Don't get me wrong i'd love to have her back but we cant hang around indefinitely for someone who may or may not come back

Feeling a bit embarrassed i have messaged the singer apologizing and explained that I'm not happy with how things have been done and that i was dissapointed i would not be working with her.

Then she messaged me back saying she has met a bass player and drummer and was very impressed with me and would like to offer me a spot playing guitar in her band lol


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## petereanima (Oct 25, 2013)

Many important things have been said so far, and I would like to add one thing, and on this point it's important that the existing bandmembers already have clarified this with each other:

Clarify your goals. What do you want to achieve with the band? Is your goal to "make it", to put it all on one card and do everything to get big? If so, tell the potential new member about it right away, straight it out, and make sure he is in the same boat!

Or vice versa - if you already quit the rockstar dream, tell your new member "Look buddy, we will play some gigs on weekends, and may do a 4-to-5 day tour once in a year, but that's about it - it's a full time hobby, but no one is going to quit his job for it.

Or if it's just a jam twice a months...make it clear!

You get the idea...


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## guitarfishbay (Nov 7, 2013)

petereanima said:


> Many important things have been said so far, and I would like to add one thing, and on this point it's important that the existing bandmembers already have clarified this with each other:
> 
> Clarify your goals. What do you want to achieve with the band? Is your goal to "make it", to put it all on one card and do everything to get big? If so, tell the potential new member about it right away, straight it out, and make sure he is in the same boat!
> 
> ...



Exactly.

IMO if you want to take it seriously you have to treat it like it is a job vacancy to some extent. You can't hire someone who won't turn up!

I feel really sorry for my friend's band. They just launched their EP at a local show last month and less than 2 weeks later the singer has quit because she doesn't want to gig as extensively as the others. During the early phase she was 100% up for it, but now crunch time has come around and she's decided to prioritise other things. Happens all the time, doesn't make it any less frustrating for the remaining members though.


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## petereanima (Nov 7, 2013)

guitarfishbay said:


> I feel really sorry for my friend's band. They just launched their EP at a local show last month and less than 2 weeks later the singer has quit because she doesn't want to gig as extensively as the others. During the early phase she was 100% up for it, but now crunch time has come around and she's decided to prioritise other things. Happens all the time, doesn't make it any less frustrating for the remaining members though.



Yep, that's exactly why I've stated it - I had to change actually the complete lineup for our band several times, from step to step, with each turn more towards "job", another member turned into a problem. And living in a complete wasteland when it comes to musicians, finding replacements took me several months each time...All-in, these things did cost my band YEARS.

Because the example you stated is actually still one of the "better" cases, if she's aware enough of herself that it's getting too much for her so quickly and quits. It could be much worse. 50% of the guys I replaced, did not just give 100% all the time, and then quit from one day to another. They put us down more and more over the time, in a sneaking process. It's the one rehearsal missed at first, the one gig where he is too late due to whatever-emergency-excuse is at hand later (which costs you potential future gigs, but don't get me even started at that), the one gig that cannot be played afterwards, and it sums up and up, until the general mood is shit, and then you have to kick this person out, and they won't accept it, and start to spread bullshit, they even would send rage-letters to magazines that review your record....

Uhm, well, yeah....one may see - I have a little experience with such cases. 

TL; DR: yeah, make that shit clear.


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## BenSolace (Nov 11, 2013)

Rev2010 said:


> Some of you are arguing points like, "Well a 6 string and an 8 string together can be interesting". But I don't want that, I want to be able to do two 8 strings playing along together, at times the same riffs for fatness and at times different riffs for complexity and variety. I simply can't join up with a guitarist that only has a 6-string and can't ever afford, or want, to get a 7 or 8 string. So why would I entertain bringing such a guitarist on board? It's not going to be how I want to write music.



Mate, try being in a band that started out on 6 strings/4 string bass and then trying to write material for 7 strings/5 string bass 

We had to fire a guitarist because he would literally buy the bare minimum gear he could possibly get away with (then get his parents to pay for it... he was 23 with a full time job!), but when I got a 7 string and started writing on that, it took us over a year to come to the conclusion that he just wasn't going to get one. Before anyone starts telling me I'm harsh, that was probably the least of his "offences."

Problem is our bassist, though claiming he really wants a 5-string, has taken nearly as long to get one (and still hasn't) though he claims to be saving. Being the sole writer in the band is really frustrating when you want to progress and no-one else seems to want to put the effort in


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## Pat Olson (Nov 18, 2013)

Albionic said:


> when a female musician/singer answers your ad your bandmates will inevitably want to know if she is hot. resist the urge to message her to ask.



Also highly recommend someone going into another room to listen. Sometimes the eyes overlook the ears.


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## Necropitated (Nov 25, 2013)

Hey guys, would you consider it a "no" to ask to play with one of the guitars of the guitar player of the band you're auditioning for!? I have a huge audition next month in a different country and it would be way cheaper for me to not bring my guitar. I'm not exactly broke right now but I don't have much money either because of my shitty dayjob (apprenticeship)


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 25, 2013)

Given those circumstances, if you ask ahead of time, I don't see why its an issue. If I was the other guitarist and you contacted me before you go there, I wouldn't mind and would understand that travel costs.


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## feraledge (Nov 25, 2013)

Don't give the impression that someone is in the band or a shoe in already. The dude who assumes an audition is inclusion is the most awkward person to deal with. I had a potential temporary basis send an email to the metal archives to get himself listed as a member. Super awkward and he never ended up playing a single show.


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## last_for_death (Nov 26, 2013)

Don't let drunk dudes auditioning for vocals reach into your gun safe and pull out a 9, then say "Let's play Russian Roulette." and pull the trigger. It was my drummers' brother who opened the gun safe. Guy showed up in a hoodie in the middle of summer. Took it off and he had all these cut marks. Fresh, old, and healed. Scary situation. Luckily no death occurred.


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## Necropitated (Nov 26, 2013)

GunpointMetal said:


> Given those circumstances, if you ask ahead of time, I don't see why its an issue. If I was the other guitarist and you contacted me before you go there, I wouldn't mind and would understand that travel costs.



Yeah, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Right now, I'm still figuring out if I go by train or plane. Plane is a lot cheaper without a guitar. Let's just hope I can play as good on his guitars as on mine. I think he has some quality guitars but playing on my own is always better. 
I just had another idea: I could use my old ibanez. I'd just unscrew the neck for the flight....hmm, I should think about that.


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## CTID (Nov 26, 2013)

feraledge said:


> I had a potential temporary basis* send an email to the metal archives to get himself listed as a member*. Super awkward and he never ended up playing a single show.



...so? Because some arbitrary website has a guy who's not actually in the band listed as being in the band, you have no choice? Seems like people take the internet a bit too seriously.


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## Leveebreaks (Nov 26, 2013)

last_for_death said:


> Don't let drunk dudes auditioning for vocals reach into your gun safe and pull out a 9, then say "Let's play Russian Roulette." and pull the trigger. It was my drummers' brother who opened the gun safe. Guy showed up in a hoodie in the middle of summer. Took it off and he had all these cut marks. Fresh, old, and healed. Scary situation. Luckily no death occurred.


 
Don't open gun safes around lunatics?

Sometimes I'm really glad I live in the UK. Not often, but sometimes.


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## JoePayne (Nov 29, 2013)

Always check for substance abuse problems, attitudes, and them trying to make their girlfriend another member of the band. If their girlfriend is a stripper there's something wrong immediately.


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## sted (Nov 29, 2013)

Advertised for a singer and got a reply saying "Hey, I can sing covers but I hate it and will only do it for the money" Er, no thanks mate. Another "I'm interested but you will have to change your entire set list to things I like doing" Hmmm, gee....no.
I'm in a band now that the other guitar is a bit of a liability, he's been in it years and I already know the songs better than him, he sticks his ear plugs in, wangs up his marshall and stomps all over the singers lines, takes his hands off his guitar so he constantly induces feedback, pays no attention to the rest of the band eye contact wise and wanks off between songs when the rest of us want to make a point about what we just did to improve things.


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 29, 2013)

sted said:


> Advertised for a singer and got a reply saying "Hey, I can sing covers but I hate it and will only do it for the money" Er, no thanks mate. Another "I'm interested but you will have to change your entire set list to things I like doing" Hmmm, gee....no.
> I'm in a band now that the other guitar is a bit of a liability, he's been in it years and I already know the songs better than him, he sticks his ear plugs in, wangs up his marshall and stomps all over the singers lines, takes his hands off his guitar so he constantly induces feedback, pays no attention to the rest of the band eye contact wise and wanks off between songs when the rest of us want to make a point about what we just did to improve things.



I hate that guy!

"I solo...all the time...even when you're talking to me...."


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## guitarfishbay (Nov 29, 2013)

sted said:


> and wanks off between songs when the rest of us want to make a point about what we just did to improve things.



We have a 'no playing when someone is talking' rule in my band.

We also have a 'no playing during the break' rule. During the mid practice break everyone has to put their instrument down (no noodling) and switch their amp off, and the drummer has to come out from behind his sea of cymbals so we can all see each other properly and have a proper discussion.

We enforced these months ago and they've been really good for us.



Necropitated said:


> Hey guys, would you consider it a "no" to ask to play with one of the guitars of the guitar player of the band you're auditioning for!? *I have a huge audition* next month in a different country and it would be way cheaper for me to not bring my guitar. I'm not exactly broke right now but I don't have much money either because of my shitty dayjob (apprenticeship)



If it was me, and I had a nice instrument I knew was set up well I'd be taking it.

You can't guarantee you'll be able to play their guitar to the standard that will prove your own abilities and get you the job.

You could ask to borrow a guitar, and if they say yes maybe their instrument will be set up the way you like. 

But if they say yes, you get there, and the guitar is set up badly or in such a way that you can't play it to the full extent of your ability then you run the risk of giving a bad performance and missing out on the gig.

You're already paying for a flight to go to an audition serious enough for you to fly to. So I'm guessing there will be pressure involved. I think it might be best to take an instrument you're familiar with.

Most of all, good luck!


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## Necropitated (Dec 5, 2013)

> If it was me, and I had a nice instrument I knew was set up well I'd be taking it.
> 
> You can't guarantee you'll be able to play their guitar to the standard that will prove your own abilities and get you the job.
> 
> ...


So I finally found a cheap flight to London that's not charging any extra money for the guitar ;-)

I know what you mean, I always set up my guitars myself and I think the biggest difficulty apart the action would be the string gauge/tension. My 8 string is currently tuned the same way and has the same set of strings as my 6 string that I'll use for the audition and it's way harder to play the material because of the higher tension.

But I'm sure the guy has real high quality guitars, not like me with my washburn Pro FE and Ibanez GRG XD.


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 5, 2013)

Dude, we've seen you play, you could bring an electric ukulele and probably get the gig.


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## feraledge (Dec 9, 2013)

CTID said:


> ...so? Because some arbitrary website has a guy who's not actually in the band listed as being in the band, you have no choice? Seems like people take the internet a bit too seriously.



When did I say I didn't have a choice? I said it was awkward. Which it was. I'm not saying that the internet determines who is in your band, I'm just saying you have to watch who you even open the door for because they might take it way too seriously and then you're stuck with a lot of awkwardness.


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