# Sport supplements



## soliloquy

just thought i'd start a thread about different types of supplements and their needs. 

let it be creatine, or difference between ceasien and isolate protein, omega fatty acids, or whatever else you may have questions about.

or you may have tried and hated, or loved.
best tasting
worst tasting
expensive
cheap
etc...


and what supplements are you on right now, and what are your goals?


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

To get like Ronnie Coleman you gotta take Dat Dere Celltech!


----------



## SenorDingDong

I take BSN True Mass and ON 100% gold standard whey

They are, in my opinion, the best tasting supplements of their kind, true mass being a gainer, with 800 calories, the chocolate tastes amazing... And the protein being the best PURE protein I've ever had, I've tried Isopure (good fruity flavors), Muscle Milk (metallic after taste, has trace metals, VERY bad for you), Syntha 6 (protein blend, i think its casein and whey?) Nectar (awesome flavor, but blends aren't good for post workout) and a few others like EAS and 6 star (both shitty, EAS has trace metals too)

and I used to take NO-XPLODE, but took too much once and after my workout couln't stop shaking and thought i was gonna die, NEVER again.
and I used to take creatine and glutamine, but theres such subtle difference if you drink a gallon of water a day anyways, the creatine will just bloat you out. Most NO products are just caffeine with very little Arganine (the nitric oxide precursor) thats why i stopped taking NO Xplode and never even used my Super Pump 250... Fish oil is good for skin and healthy fat absorption so i take that, and of course a multi vitamin (liquid - can't swallow pills) 

Basically I've tried every non-dangerous supplement type out there, but found that a weight gainer three times a day along with whole foods and pure whey after workout works the best for me

(Most of what I've learned about supplementing is from my MMA coaches)

Oh and Accelerade and Endurox are awesome supplements, they're like Gatorade, electrolyte replenishers, but not full of HFCS


----------



## Triple-J

The worst stuff I've ever had is pretty much anything by Weider they do a protein bar that was so horrible I can barely describe it but try imagining what washing machine powder coated in cheap grainy chocolate would taste like and your close.

Apart from that I've tried almost everything though I'm not a fan of pre-workout stuff like NO-xplode as it's too expensive and I tend not to respond to it but creatine monohydrate works well with me and I've just started using creatine gluconate and D-aspartic acid with some great results so far especially from the gluconate as it doesn't dehydrate or bloat you.

When it comes to protein powder I tend to skip buying casein as it's too expensive plus a tub of cottage cheese or quark blended with a scoop or two of whey is just as good and cheaper too.
As for brands PHD, BSN and Optimum Nutrition have the best tasting stuff imo but I order most of my stuff now from a place in the UK called Myprotein as they do every type of supplement/vitamin/etc at bulk prices which saves me a lot of money.


----------



## Asrial

Dymatize elite whey, 2 scoops mixed with 150ml soy milk and 350ml 1,5% milk. Damn good stuff. Only thing I consume post-workout. Works pretty damn fine! And the taste is divine.


----------



## soliloquy

Jstring said:


> I take BSN True Mass and ON 100% gold standard whey




i'm hearing extreme mix reviews for ON 100%.

on bb.com, it gets great reviews, but if you ask individually, people say that they taste good only to those who haven't had other things before. so idk what that means. but i'm curious about em and prolly gonna buy maybe their coffee or capacciino soon


as for me, i'm relatively new to the whole thing.
aside from the random stuff that grocery stores sell under their own name. which were just basic whey protein stuff. i didn't see much gains in that, so i jumped over to ISO100 by dymatize. 

i have to say, aside from the strawberry iso100, dymatize makes some incredible stuff. on one 5 lbs vanilla jar, i managed to get great cuts all over my arms and upper chest, all the while i gained quiet a bit of weight. unfortunatley, 2010 saw me being injured with numerous injuries, so whatever i gained over the year, i lost within 6 months 


by far, the worst tasting stuff i've tried have to be:
Weider: tasted like sand, but they also left these weird jelly like cubes in their mix which always made me gag...just horrible

but to top that, Six Star Muscle's 'french vanilla' whey protein. made a mistake buying a 5 lbs jar on sale for 20 bucks. had it thrice, and gave up on it. gave it away to a friend, he had it once and to the garbage it went. it really tasted like ash trays!


----------



## aiur55

For protein, I take Gaspari Myofusion. Best tasting protein ever. Plus, it is not just whey but also egg and milk protein that stay in your system for about 4 hours. or so says the marketing. I take protein twice a day (when I wake and when I sleep). It also mixes really well. No stomach problems either.

I have taken NO xplode which worked for what it was. It was just a bunch of stims. Woke you up real nice though. Tasted really good. Like a blueberry energy drink.

Gaspari Superpump or super dump worked great, when i didn't need to spray out my insides. Gave really nice gains. Tasted great as everything Gaspari does.
Gaspari Size on works pretty well. Doesn't cause stomach problems.

The latest preworkout stuff I have taken is AEN presurge stacked with AEN intrabolic. This crap tastes so nasty. Worse than cat piss. But it really pumped me up and I made some amazing gains in strength with it. Also kept me working out with a lot more endurance. By the end of the month, I got used to it.

My mission is to be Goku for halloweens 
I weigh 180 lbs right now at 6 feet.


----------



## jymellis

"the juice"


----------



## SenorDingDong

soliloquy said:


> i'm hearing extreme mix reviews for ON 100%.
> 
> on bb.com, it gets great reviews, but if you ask individually, people say that they taste good only to those who haven't had other things before. so idk what that means. but i'm curious about em and prolly gonna buy maybe their coffee or capacciino soon
> 
> 
> Yeah I've stuck to vanilla and root beer, and they've never steered my wrong, but I have tried at least 9 different powders before settling on ON... but it comes down to personal taste preference and also if you get a bad batch... I got a batch that tasted like a fart once, and i returned it and they gave me a new one and it was back to deliciousville


----------



## soliloquy

Jstring said:


> soliloquy said:
> 
> 
> 
> i'm hearing extreme mix reviews for ON 100%.
> 
> on bb.com, it gets great reviews, but if you ask individually, people say that they taste good only to those who haven't had other things before. so idk what that means. but i'm curious about em and prolly gonna buy maybe their coffee or capacciino soon
> 
> 
> Yeah I've stuck to vanilla and root beer, and they've never steered my wrong, but I have tried at least 9 different powders before settling on ON... but it comes down to personal taste preference and also if you get a bad batch... I got a batch that tasted like a fart once, and i returned it and they gave me a new one and it was back to deliciousville
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you can return opened packages based on taste?!
> 
> WHERE IS THIS?!
Click to expand...


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

jymellis said:


> "the juice"



You can't beat it


No seriously you can't!


----------



## kung_fu

I'm relatively new to supplements, but as far as whey protein is concerned I enjoy IsoFlex strawberry whey protein isolate. It's pretty synthetic tasting but in a good candy-like whey (..... bad pun), although it has real bits of strawberries in it as well. It beats out all of the others i've tried so far flavour-wise and it is 90% protein per scoop. I may give something else a try my next trip to GNC.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Jstring said:


> Basically I've tried every non-dangerous supplement type out there, but found that a weight gainer three times a day along with whole foods and pure whey after workout works the best for me



I'm one of those people that has always been skinny and can eat all I want, yet gain nothing. I started trying out several different brands of whey protein and then thought maybe I should be using a gainer since I have a hard time gaining weight. I slowly gained weight, but wasn't working out enough to make up for the amount of calories per shake. 

I switched back to whey protein, changed what I ate, changed up my workouts, and am much more satisfied with the results. The only issue is that a few months ago I started running again and probably burning more calories a day than I should be. 

Does anyone know of a good protein powder that has a bit more calories than the average protein shake?


----------



## Triple-J

Guitarmiester said:


> Does anyone know of a good protein powder that has a bit more calories than the average protein shake?



The basic amount of calories depends on whether you mix your shake with milk or water and what type of milk you use too but most protein powders average around the same amount of calories so just try adding things to the shake in a blender such as....

Olive oil: it's calorifically dense and a good source of healthy fats a shot or two is enough but make sure it's extra virgin though.
Natural/greek yogurt: I like this a lot and sometimes I'll just eat a tub of it with a scoop or two of chocolate protein powder mixed in as a healthier substitute for ice cream. 
Peanut butter: personally I prefer smooth but the most important thing is that it's organic/sugar free.
Oats: a good slow burning carb source and if you have a decent blender/food proccessor you should be able to grind them down until they are really fine which makes them really easy to blend.


----------



## Guitarmiester

I'm typically mixing with whole milk, sometimes 1%. Not a fan of water and protein, especially if the powder tastes like chalk. I did a bit of research on various whey protein powders yesterday and came to the same conclusion you mentioned, they all average just about the same amount of calories. 

Thanks for the tips on things to add! I occasionally blend a few scoops of ice cream for added calories. I'll definitely give the yogurt suggestion a try. I haven't eaten yogurt since I was a kid. My gf eats yogurt every day and has been trying to get me to start eating it again.


----------



## SenorDingDong

soliloquy said:


> Jstring said:
> 
> 
> 
> you can return opened packages based on taste?!
> 
> WHERE IS THIS?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i order from allstarhealth.com
> 
> they have a policy, as long as there is half the product left, you can return it... I've tested all my gainers through them based on those principles, when i didn't like them i sent them right back and got a full refund
Click to expand...


----------



## soliloquy

anyone know if bb.com (bodybuilding.com) matches prices?

the website Jstring mentioned has slightly cheaper stuff, but bb.com has over 7 million sales, so i trust bb.com more. plus, they ship to canada, so hey.


----------



## gunshow86de

Pre-workout (5am):
USP Labs OxyELITE Pro

Post-workout:
GNC Megan-men Sport Vitamin pack
GNC Superfoods Supreme
ON 100% Gold Standard Whey Protein

Afternoon-snack:
ON 100% Gold Standard Why Protein (w/ banana)

Before bed:
ON 100% Gold Standard Casein Protein
Garden of Life Perfect Food



If curious; I've been using this combo along with around a 1,300 (not including the supplements) calorie per day meal plan. For work outs, I'm doing that Beachbody Insanity DVD. I know it's from a cheesy infomercial, but it's extremely tough. I'd recommended it to anyone who's lazy about traditional cardio and ab exercises. I just finished week 2, and I've lost 2 inches from my waist and 15 lbs, so far. 

But really, Insanity is just a pre-cursor. I'm planning to start Crossfit either in June or July, and I think I'd get more benefit from it if I didn't die on the first day of class.


----------



## Revan132

gunshow86de said:


> Pre-workout (5am):
> USP Labs OxyELITE Pro
> 
> Post-workout:
> GNC Megan-men Sport Vitamin pack
> GNC Superfoods Supreme
> ON 100% Gold Standard Whey Protein
> 
> Afternoon-snack:
> ON 100% Gold Standard Why Protein (w/ banana)
> 
> Before bed:
> ON 100% Gold Standard Casein Protein
> Garden of Life Perfect Food
> 
> 
> 
> If curious; I've been using this combo along with around a 1,300 (not including the supplements) calorie per day meal plan. For work outs, I'm doing that Beachbody Insanity DVD. I know it's from a cheesy infomercial, but it's extremely tough. I'd recommended it to anyone who's lazy about traditional cardio and ab exercises. I just finished week 2, and I've lost 2 inches from my waist and 15 lbs, so far.
> 
> But really, Insanity is just a pre-cursor. I'm planning to start Crossfit either in June or July, and I think I'd get more benefit from it if I didn't die on the first day of class.




Getting any good results with that OxyELITE Pro? I always was curious about that stuff.


----------



## gunshow86de

Revan132 said:


> Getting any good results with that OxyELITE Pro? I always was curious about that stuff.



I think so. It definitely feels "smoother" than other thermogenics I've taken in the past. I don't get the jittery or dizzy feeling, but it goes get the heart rate up there when I take it in the morning. 

With the exception of mulit-vitamins and protein, I often wonder how much of a supplement's perceived results are placebo effect. It's such a poorly regulated industry.


----------



## theo

Some advice here would be lovely. I've been training in martial arts for about 8 months now, 3 times a week, my regime is: Monday: 1.5 hours of martial arts. Tuesday: 1.5 hours of fitness class (boxing, kickboxing,core work and general cardio) followed by half an hour of sparring, followed by an hour to an hour and a half of the martial arts style I do (karate/kung fu), Thursday is the same as a Tuesday but in reverse order. 

I'm six foot one and a very slender build, currently I weigh about 70kgs
I've put on a few kilos since doing this, and my tone is pretty good. I just want to put a little more muscle mass on, my goal isn't to bulk up and become huge though. Currently I'm not taking any supplements, I know very little about them. Any advice or comments would be great


----------



## SenorDingDong

Anthony said:


> Just a multi, whey Isolate, creatine when bulking and psyllium husk when I'm on keto.



do you find it hard to swallow psyllium? I've tried it once and it was like drinking sand paper, it scared me and I chucked it.


----------



## TXDeathMetal

I recently got serious about working out but I'm a newb when it comes to supplements. I am 6'1" and currently at approximately 160lbs and have been taking creatine monohydrate (Vitamin Shoppe brand) and some cheap whey protein that I got at Wal-Mart. I'm mixing both the creatine and whey protein in a shaker (2 scoops whey protein, 1 teaspoon creatine to 16oz water) post workout. I've tried mixing the above with milk for more calories but have found that it makes me bloated, is there anything you more experienced guys could suggest?


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Be prepared to try a lot of different proteins before you find one that doesn't "upset" your stomach. ON Gold Standard Whey is the most used protein supplement in the world. It doesn't really upset my stomach if I only have the 2 shakes per day. One day I was working out like crazy and tried to double up............ not a good idea.

A word of advice, the cheapo ones will make you 

Isopure is probably the easiest on the stomach, but that stuff has gotten ridiculously expensive (the $40 bottle lasts just over 1 week for me).


----------



## TXDeathMetal

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> 
> Be prepared to try a lot of different proteins before you find one that doesn't "upset" your stomach. ON Gold Standard Whey is the most used protein supplement in the world. It doesn't really upset my stomach if I only have the 2 shakes per day. One day I was working out like crazy and tried to double up............ not a good idea.
> 
> A word of advice, the cheapo ones will make you
> 
> Isopure is probably the easiest on the stomach, but that stuff has gotten ridiculously expensive (the $40 bottle lasts just over 1 week for me).



Thanks man, I'll definitely look into this and give it a try


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

word of advice: Don't drink protein powders in the hope they'll taste nice, man up and neck em,

Don't bother spending loads of money on expensive proteins, its all horseshit and its the same shit as the cheapos,buy the cheapos and save the extra money and spend it on some steaks.

Thermo supplements will be less than 5% of what it takes to lose fat,they work don't get me wrong but are not super effective, so if you don't have cardio and diet in check forget it.

anything other than
,amino acids
,protein
,weight gainer(ideally make your own)
,carbs
,creatine
,fat burners(in some cases)

all other types of supplements are a waste of time


----------



## Revan132

Wingchunwarrior said:


> word of advice: Don't drink protein powders in the hope they'll taste nice, man up and neck em,
> 
> Don't bother spending loads of money on expensive proteins, its all horseshit and its the same shit as the cheapos,buy the cheapos and save the extra money and spend it on some steaks.
> 
> Thermo supplements will be less than 5% of what it takes to lose fat,they work don't get me wrong but are not super effective, so if you don't have cardio and diet in check forget it.
> 
> anything other than
> ,amino acids
> ,protein
> ,weight gainer(ideally make your own)
> ,carbs
> ,creatine
> ,fat burners(in some cases)
> 
> all other types of supplements are a waste of time



NO Supplements as well work EXCEEDINGLY well for energy for me.


----------



## soliloquy

theo said:


> Some advice here would be lovely. I've been training in martial arts for about 8 months now, 3 times a week, my regime is: Monday: 1.5 hours of martial arts. Tuesday: 1.5 hours of fitness class (boxing, kickboxing,core work and general cardio) followed by half an hour of sparring, followed by an hour to an hour and a half of the martial arts style I do (karate/kung fu), Thursday is the same as a Tuesday but in reverse order.
> 
> I'm six foot one and a very slender build, currently I weigh about 70kgs
> I've put on a few kilos since doing this, and my tone is pretty good. I just want to put a little more muscle mass on, my goal isn't to bulk up and become huge though. Currently I'm not taking any supplements, I know very little about them. Any advice or comments would be great




to be honest, that is a lot of cardio a day. what is that, 3-5 hours a day of cardio?
you wont really be gaining much muscle mass in that, but perhaps losing some due to muscle fatigue. i mean, there is a difference between a sprinter and a long distance runner. sprinter has the body that can easily be shown off on the beach, but a long distance runner wouldn't. why? way too much cardio for their own good. 

perhaps knock your cardio down to two hours.
as for food, try this, get about 2-3 grams for carb for every protein gram you you consume. and if you're about 145lbs, try eating about 120-140ish grams of protein a day. so yeah, it would be a lot to eat.


----------



## Maniacal

I just take whey protein and pulse and recovery xs from myprotein.co.uk

Other than that, I make my own protein bars and protein shakes

for the bars I use porridge, whey and flax

for the protein shakes I use bananas, raw eggs and whey


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

Maniacal said:


> I just take whey protein and pulse and recovery xs from myprotein.co.uk
> 
> Other than that, I make my own protein bars and protein shakes
> 
> for the bars I use porridge, whey and flax
> 
> for the protein shakes I use bananas, raw eggs and whey



Myprotein

A great place to buy affordable protein!(in the uk)


----------



## soliloquy

i just placed an order on bodybuilding.com for 15 lbs of powder from IDS, Dymatize, and Optimum. 

cant wait to get it.

its stupid, though bb.com has price match, but they negate it by saying they will charge the competitors shipping rate. 

so if i were to save 10 bucks by going to another company, bb.com will match that price, but then over charge by having more shipping where you end up paying more...


----------



## Guitarmiester

Wingchunwarrior said:


> word of advice: Don't drink protein powders in the hope they'll taste nice, man up and neck em,
> 
> Don't bother spending loads of money on expensive proteins, its all horseshit and its the same shit as the cheapos,buy the cheapos and save the extra money and spend it on some steaks.
> 
> Thermo supplements will be less than 5% of what it takes to lose fat,they work don't get me wrong but are not super effective, so if you don't have cardio and diet in check forget it.
> 
> anything other than
> ,amino acids
> ,protein
> ,weight gainer(ideally make your own)
> ,carbs
> ,creatine
> ,fat burners(in some cases)
> 
> all other types of supplements are a waste of time



Very good points mentioned here. I've tried a ton of different protein powders. None of them taste all that great. You'll start to take notice of which doesn't taste as bad as the others. Don't go out of your way to find the best tasting. Deal with the taste or add some things in the mixer that you like. 

I used to go out of my way to buy X or Y because they're more expensive and have better reviews. I go through protein powder so fast that I recently started buying this cheapo Body Fortress whey protein powder and have been very pleased with the results. Instead of spending $30+ on protein powder I'm spending $14. The money I'm saving goes toward eating better meals. 

These are supplements, not replacements.


----------



## Harry

Wingchunwarrior said:


> To get like Ronnie Coleman you gotta take Dat Dere Celltech!



Oh good lord, it seems bodybuilding.com is even more popular on the internet than I thought


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

Harry said:


> Oh good lord, it seems bodybuilding.com is even more popular on the internet than I thought



It had to be done

Thankfully to actually hear it i didn't need to be associated with that abomination of a forum, heard on another bb forum


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Hey I took Cell-Tech in high school and got great results. Sure when you're 16 -18 you can make gains just by flexing, but I swear it was the Cell-Tech. What a miracle worker!!!!!


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

and this started it all


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Dat dere is good shit. Never seen it before. I got out of hardcore bodybuilding long before I got into hardcore forum lurking.


----------



## theo

soliloquy said:


> to be honest, that is a lot of cardio a day. what is that, 3-5 hours a day of cardio?
> you wont really be gaining much muscle mass in that, but perhaps losing some due to muscle fatigue. i mean, there is a difference between a sprinter and a long distance runner. sprinter has the body that can easily be shown off on the beach, but a long distance runner wouldn't. why? way too much cardio for their own good.
> 
> perhaps knock your cardio down to two hours.
> as for food, try this, get about 2-3 grams for carb for every protein gram you you consume. and if you're about 145lbs, try eating about 120-140ish grams of protein a day. so yeah, it would be a lot to eat.



not quite, ive realised that my timetable has just changed too,
Im now doing an hour and a half of martial arts on a monday.
an hour and a half of martial arts on a tuesday, followed by an hour of fitness training then half an hour of sparring and then thursday follows tuesday but in reverse. its not only cardio, but I dont do any weight training, maybe I should start, as I said though, My aim isnt to get gigantic, I just want to put a little more weight on, another 5 kilos max and I would probably be satisfied, im pretty happy being slender... just not quite this slender ;p


----------



## Harry

Ah but guys, while we have the Celltech, we are missing the greatest compliment to it...............FROG TECH!


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

^


----------



## TXDeathMetal

Ok so I went and placed an order on The Vitamin Shoppe's website and got the Optimum Nutrition Serious Mass Chocolate 12 pound powder, really looking forward to trying it out.


----------



## gunshow86de

"SERIOUS MASS (mass.... mass......): THE ONLY WEIGHT GAINER SO SERIOUS, IT COMES IN A BAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Yeah, my friend used to have a whole infomercial made up for SERIOUS MASS (mass...... mass........).


----------



## TXDeathMetal

gunshow86de said:


> "SERIOUS MASS (mass.... mass......): THE ONLY WEIGHT GAINER SO SERIOUS, IT COMES IN A BAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
> 
> Yeah, my friend used to have a whole infomercial made up for SERIOUS MASS (mass...... mass........).



I'm assuming from this that it's not a good product?


----------



## gunshow86de

TXDeathMetal said:


> I'm assuming from this that it's not a good product?



Oh no, it works quite well. Optimum Nutrition makes quality products.

It's just the only one that comes in a bag. Also, part of our post-workout supplements were herbal, if that explains anything. 

I think there's a company that makes a weight gainer that comes in a 10 gallon paint bucket; it might be more serious than SERIOUS MASS!!!!


----------



## Jazzercize

I take Jack3d as my pre workout supplement and muscle milk light as my post. Although I only take 1/2 a serving of the muscle milk. At first I liked the Jack3d (I got it in fruit punch) but after a while it starts to sour in your mouth and I've ended up hating to take it. I love the muscle milk though, I tried vanilla and chocolate first and now I'm on cake batter--Its pretty good but I was expecting them to do a little better on the flavor.


----------



## soliloquy

TXDeathMetal said:


> Ok so I went and placed an order on The Vitamin Shoppe's website and got the Optimum Nutrition Serious Mass Chocolate 12 pound powder, really looking forward to trying it out.



let us know how it works

my thing against weight gainers is how much is required to be consumed. i mean, that 12 lbs bag apparently only has 16 servings. that is a LOT!!!

on the other hand, a 5 lbs protein isolate gives you the same amount of protein, if not, then more, but on top of that, the package lasts you for about 50-80 servings....




i'm just waiting on my package of 5 lbs of dymatize iso-100 vanilla, IDS pure whey protein 5 lbs belgian chocolate, and optimum's 100% whey mocca flavor, also 5lbs. i got it from bodybuilding.com....REALLY hoping i dont get any brokerage fee!


----------



## bandinaboy

So thanks to this thread i ordered creatine and ON 100 whey powder from bodybuilding.com

best purchase in a while. it took 2 days to ship, even tho it said it would take 3. and first day i feel great, as im normally tired all day long and after my workout i still feel like i could work out more. 

At first i tried it with water, and that was a bad idea, it sucked haha. and i tried to man it down, but i resorted to putting in Rice milk, and it tasted really good. soo haha i got a good deal out of all of this. thanks gents


----------



## soliloquy

creatine, unfortunately never did anything for me other than make me gain about 15 lbs. pretty sure most of it was just water weight.

did my strength go up? nope.
did my muscles get any bigger? nope.
did i gain any fat? i'm sure a bit, as my face got a BIT bigger...but again, nothing. 

it didn't change ANYTHING on my body, i looked pretty much the same and all, but just weighed a bit heavier. 

however, right when i stopped taking it, i lost that 15 lbs within about 4 months?


----------



## soliloquy

theo said:


> not quite, ive realised that my timetable has just changed too,
> Im now doing an hour and a half of martial arts on a monday.
> an hour and a half of martial arts on a tuesday, followed by an hour of fitness training then half an hour of sparring and then thursday follows tuesday but in reverse. its not only cardio, but I dont do any weight training, maybe I should start, as I said though, My aim isnt to get gigantic, I just want to put a little more weight on, another 5 kilos max and I would probably be satisfied, im pretty happy being slender... just not quite this slender ;p



monday- 1.5 hours of cardio
tues/thurs- 3 hours of cardio


thats 4.5 + hours of cardio a week. 

cardio is anything that is either fast paced over a short period of time, or slwo paced over a long period of time that puts some sort of strain on your heart. 

unless you're eating a LOT, you wont really gain much in that. maybe lose more. or worse, you get used to it, so then your body wont really do anything, not gain nor lose.


----------



## Harry

soliloquy said:


> creatine, unfortunately never did anything for me other than make me gain about 15 lbs. pretty sure most of it was just water weight.
> 
> did my strength go up? nope.
> did my muscles get any bigger? nope.
> did i gain any fat? i'm sure a bit, as my face got a BIT bigger...but again, nothing.
> 
> it didn't change ANYTHING on my body, i looked pretty much the same and all, but just weighed a bit heavier.
> 
> however, right when i stopped taking it, i lost that 15 lbs within about 4 months?



What type of creatine did you use?
I'm not really a fan of Creatine Monohydrate (which was one of the types of creatine in the weight gainer I used to use, caused me to feel bloated after consuming it), HOWEVER, I started using Controlled Labs Green Magnitude, which uses Magnesium Creatine Chelate and Dicreatine Malate, and I experienced none of that bloating crap or severe water weight gain at all.
I got nothing but just more endurance and more strength gains out of it.
Some people just don't respond well to Monohydrate, but respond really well to MCC (Magnesium Creatine Chelate), Creatine Hydrochloride, Dicreatine Malate and Creatine Nitrate which are all proven to have superior levels of bioavailability and work for people that don't respond/don't respond well to Monohydrate.
While they do cost more than Monohydrate yes, generally most people believe the extra benefits which these types of creatine provide are well worth it. I certainly feel that MCC and Dicreatine Malate are well worth it.


----------



## soliloquy

so...i just got the order from IDS belgiun chocolate, and opitimum nutritions mocha...kinda disappointed in their taste actually...

i still stand by Dymataize Gourmet vanilla to tasting the best tasting protein out there!

granted i haven't tried peanut butter, chocolate/mint, or cookies n creams from isoflex yet


----------



## soliloquy

i need to ask about multivitamins...some of their labels say they are providing 100%-900% of certain vitamins and minerals. and i get that vits and mins are important to your body...

but if they are providing such large quantities of them, then why do you need food if you're taking multivitamins? i mean, yeah, i get the calories that are needed to survive, but what if you're eating a decent amount of food, and you may not be getting ALL of your vitamins, but at least you're getting maybe 50-80% of your daily required vits and minerals...

but then say you jump on multivitamins, and dont alter your food intake. so suddenly you're WAY over the normal threshold.

on top of that, if you're on multivitamins, milk isn't something you should be consuming as it gives you side effects (according to research...or at least my research). and if you drink orange juice, which can provide up to 200% of vitamin C, then mulitvitamins would be forcing you to overdose on all the important vitamins...which, to me seems counter productive...

so what really is the purpose of them?


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

Anthony said:


> Brb running my first cycle of frogtech



I hope your running Pct after that cycle man, you don't want your gills to shrink


----------



## Revan132

Thought I would get everyone's opinion on this matter...
I am now taking OxyELITE Pro by USPlabs and I have to say I like the mood altering it seems to do to me, I actually feel happier somehow. Probably just the caffeine. However, it says on the bottle to avoid taking over 3 in a 24 hour period (2 in the morning before breakfast, one 6 hours later). This would be fine on a constant schedule, BUT I take it at 5:30 AM on work days (Which is Tuesday and Thursday) and at 8:45 AM on school days. On weekends it would be like 10:00 AM... so I hope you guys see the small overlaps if I were to take 3 a day as opposed to 2 (which some people do). Do you guys think its safe to do 3 a day, given my schedule? Maybe I am just being a little too paranoid?


----------



## soliloquy

/\ i would recommending going over on bodybuilding.com with that question. give it 5 minutes, and you'll get 2 replies. give it another hour, and at least 6 replies..so on...bb.com is pretty good with fast replies


----------



## gunshow86de

I'm taking OxyElite too. I hope you didn't just jump into 3 per day. You are supposed to gradually work up to that (I think it's 1 per day for the first 4 days, then 2 with an 8 hour separation).

I think I'm sticking with 2 per day, 8 hour separation. My vitamin pack has a few natural thermogenics in it anyway. With 3 a day I'd probably start getting twitchy.


----------



## Revan132

gunshow86de said:


> I'm taking OxyElite too. I hope you didn't just jump into 3 per day. You are supposed to gradually work up to that (I think it's 1 per day for the first 4 days, then 2 with an 8 hour separation).
> 
> I think I'm sticking with 2 per day, 8 hour separation. My vitamin pack has a few natural thermogenics in it anyway. With 3 a day I'd probably start getting twitchy.


 
Nope! I am VERY strict with following labels. I started the first three days with only one pill, and am now doing 1 in the morning and 1 5-6 hours later like it says on the bottle. Been doing that for about 2 days now. I need to see my abs by June! haha


----------



## gunshow86de

^

Well thermogenics aren't miracle workers, but more like the extra push over the cliff. You wanna see abs? You need to diet hardcore. It's equally, if not more, important than the core exercises you do.


----------



## Revan132

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> 
> Well thermogenics aren't miracle workers, but more like the extra push over the cliff. You wanna see abs? You need to diet hardcore. It's equally, if not more, important than the core exercises you do.



You are assuming I am ignorant of this. I am on a very strict diet, very low in carbs, high in protein, medium fat. I eat carbs from whole grains in the morning, after lunch I refuse to eat any at all (Or very very little) I eat 6 meals a day. I throw in a cheat meal once every 2 weeks to keep my body on the edge (Whole grain pasta). I drink whey protein before and after I lift and do cardio (4 times a week) and I drink casein protein before I go to bed every night. I am also doing High Intensity Interval Training for my cardio, which is shown to burn much, much more fat then conventional methods.


----------



## gunshow86de

^

My apologies, I wasn't assuming ignorance. I've just known far too many people who took Hydroxycut or similar while still eating unhealthy food, and then decided it was a shit product that didn't work.


----------



## Revan132

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> 
> My apologies, I wasn't assuming ignorance. I've just known far too many people who took Hydroxycut or similar while still eating unhealthy food, and then decided it was a shit product that didn't work.



Apology accepted! I know they aren't miracle pills! And I know FAR too many people that just take "fat burners" and do nothing else and are surprised to see a lack of progress. I can't seem to get my original question answered on bb.com though, every thread I post disappears. It is the strangest thing!


----------



## Triple-J

soliloquy said:


> i need to ask about multivitamins...some of their labels say they are providing 100%-900% of certain vitamins and minerals. and i get that vits and mins are important to your body...
> 
> but if they are providing such large quantities of them, then why do you need food if you're taking multivitamins? i mean, yeah, i get the calories that are needed to survive, but what if you're eating a decent amount of food, and you may not be getting ALL of your vitamins, but at least you're getting maybe 50-80% of your daily required vits and minerals...
> 
> but then say you jump on multivitamins, and dont alter your food intake. so suddenly you're WAY over the normal threshold.
> 
> on top of that, if you're on multivitamins, milk isn't something you should be consuming as it gives you side effects (according to research...or at least my research). and if you drink orange juice, which can provide up to 200% of vitamin C, then mulitvitamins would be forcing you to overdose on all the important vitamins...which, to me seems counter productive...
> 
> so what really is the purpose of them?



The rda on vitamins is for your average person not a sportsperson or someone who works out etc so you can take a little more as your body will use it for example the rda of Vitamin-C is 1000mg which is 100% of your rda but it's perfectly safe to double or even triple that during periods of heavy training.


----------



## Revan132

This is a little off topic, but since I joined bb.com and posted on the forums, I must say I am very, very spoiled from ss.org's tight community and polite members. The guys over at bb.com are mostly trolls and assholes. I ask a simple question such as "Can I take ZMA with Casein", 10 posts follow with "LOLZ DOOD YOUZ ARE A DUMBASS ZMA DOESNT WORK", meanwhile their signature says they take every supplement on the market, including muscletech stuff. After said 10 posts I finally get one guy that answers my question. I hate it over there!


----------



## gunshow86de

Yeah, BB.com is a trollfest. However, they are responsible for the most epic thread of all time, "Got my Girlfriend to Model for my Car." 

Got my girlfriend to model for my car | Know Your Meme


----------



## Revan132

Talk about immaturity... check this thread out, it's people like this that make humanity look like scum.

ZMA + Casein before Bedtime a good idea? - Bodybuilding.com Forums


----------



## Harry

Revan132 said:


> This is a little off topic, but since I joined bb.com and posted on the forums, I must say I am very, very spoiled from ss.org's tight community and polite members. The guys over at bb.com are mostly trolls and assholes. I ask a simple question such as "Can I take ZMA with Casein", 10 posts follow with "LOLZ DOOD YOUZ ARE A DUMBASS ZMA DOESNT WORK", meanwhile their signature says they take every supplement on the market, including muscletech stuff. After said 10 posts I finally get one guy that answers my question. I hate it over there!



You really gotta use the search function there man.
You have to understand, sometimes there is multiple threads being made about the same topic per day by the newbies, and it gets incredibly annoying for the older members to see those threads over and over when using the search function can reveal about 100+ results for the topic.
When I first made my account there, I played it safe by not starting new threads.
With many forums in general, it's best to lurk for a while, read up and then register after. 
I still spend a lot of time on bb.com just reading and not really posting.

It really is actually a fantastic forum with some exceptionally knowledgeable people (for instance, natural pro bodybuilder Layne Norton is a regular there, really nice dude that knows his stuff and has one of the most amazing physiques in natural bodybuilding today).
Ohh, just so you can be aware, Alan Aragon is one of the most well respected names on the forum. He has an exceptional understanding of what does and what doesn't work and has helped to dispel a ton of bodybuilding myths over the years.
He comes across as really up front and blunt, but honestly he's just like anyone else that gets annoyed when people don't read the stickies and don't use the search function.
He's a cool guy, and if you ask the right questions, he's more than willing to help out.

If you're willing to stick around, and just read a ton, I don't think you'll find a forum on the internet with more useful information than bb.com.
It also becomes a lot more fun when you learn the posting style in the misc and go semi-troll style in people's threads


----------



## Revan132

Harry said:


> You really gotta use the search function there man.
> You have to understand, sometimes there is multiple threads being made about the same topic per day by the newbies, and it gets incredibly annoying for the older members to see those threads over and over when using the search function can reveal about 100+ results for the topic.
> When I first made my account there, I played it safe by not starting new threads.
> With many forums in general, it's best to lurk for a while, read up and then register after.
> I still spend a lot of time on bb.com just reading and not really posting.
> 
> If you're willing to stick around, it really is actually a fantastic forum with some exceptionally knowledgeable people (for instance, natural pro bodybuilder Layne Norton is a regular there, really nice dude that knows his stuff and has one of the most amazing physiques in natural bodybuilding today).



Yeah, I understand that now. I just don't know what provoked the aforementioned attacks. It's like they are all trolls.


----------



## Harry

Revan132 said:


> Yeah, I understand that now. I just don't know what provoked the aforementioned attacks. It's like they are all trolls.



Yeah. Well updated my post a little too.
Also, I just gave you some green reps there, and you're out of the red now.
I do expect some reps in return one day though


----------



## Revan132

Harry said:


> Yeah. Well updated my post a little too.
> Also, I just gave you some green reps there, and you're out of the red now.
> I do expect some reps in return one day though



Thanks for the reps! You got it!

My only thing is, I never said anything about it improving my fitness life. I just said I want to use it as a sleep aid mostly. Most people report good results with this, and also crazy dreams in some cases, which means it must have some kind of effect, no? And all I was saying is I might as well finish out my current supply!


----------



## Harry

Revan132 said:


> Thanks for the reps! You got it!
> 
> My only thing is, I never said anything about it improving my fitness life. I just said I want to use it as a sleep aid mostly. Most people report good results with this, and also crazy dreams in some cases, which means it must have some kind of effect, no? And all I was saying is I might as well finish out my current supply!



Well to give you my answer, there are many studies that show that it doesn't actually boost test beyond your normal levels.
But it can definitely improve quality of sleep if you're deficient in certain minerals (Zinc and Magnesium) and vitamin B6.
My melatonin supplement also has B6 in it, as it seems that combination of Valerian +B6, or melatonin +B6 or ZMA which has added B6 seem to help sleep quality.
The ZMA I take has added valerian, so it definitely enhances my quality of sleep and helps me to achieve lucid type dreaming and to be able to remember my dreams more often.

As for casein, there's nothing in it which would improve quality of sleep on any noticeable level.
I don't buy any pure casein protein, as it's simply not needed and it's expensive for how much you get.
Mixing regular whey with milk would get you all the casein you need anyway (since milk is 80 per cent casein/20 per cent whey).
My current tub of protein, Gaspari Myofusion has milk protein isolate in it (as well as whey protein concentrate and whey protein isolate, and egg albumen), so it's like having a bit more casein in it, but it's not a pure casein protein by any means.
I only really bought Myofusion to see what it tasted like, since it's generally regarded as great tasting. It tastes great, but not any better than any of the other great stuff I had which cost less per kilo/lb, so suffice to say, this will be my one and only tub of Myofusion I get haha.


----------



## Revan132

Harry said:


> Well to give you my answer, there are many studies that show that it doesn't actually boost test beyond your normal levels.
> But it can definitely improve quality of sleep if you're deficient in certain minerals (Zinc and Magnesium) and vitamin B6.
> My melatonin supplement also has B6 in it, as it seems that combination of Valerian +B6, or melatonin +B6 or ZMA which has added B6 seem to help sleep quality.
> The ZMA I take has added valerian, so it definitely enhances my quality of sleep and helps me to achieve lucid type dreaming and to be able to remember my dreams more often.
> 
> As for casein, there's nothing in it which would improve quality of sleep on any noticeable level.
> I don't buy any pure casein protein, as it's simply not needed and it's expensive for how much you get.
> Mixing regular whey with milk would get you all the casein you need anyway (since milk is 80 per cent casein/20 per cent whey).
> My current tub of protein, Gaspari Myofusion has milk protein isolate in it (as well as whey protein concentrate and whey protein isolate, and egg albumen), so it's like having a bit more casein in it, but it's not a pure casein protein by any means.
> I only really bought Myofusion to see what it tasted like, since it's generally regarded as great tasting. It tastes great, but not any better than any of the other great stuff I had which cost less per kilo/lb, so suffice to say, this will be my one and only tub of Myofusion I get haha.



Yeah, the Casein is only in replacement of cottage cheese, and in replacement of milk itself for now while I'm on my ridiculously strict diet. I can't even look at cottage cheese without getting sick.


----------



## Harry

Revan132 said:


> Yeah, the Casein is only in replacement of cottage cheese, and in replacement of milk itself for now while I'm on my ridiculously strict diet. I can't even look at cottage cheese without getting sick.



My confusion was this "I can't not take the Casein".
Why is this exactly? Yes, I've read right there it replaces milk for you, but what is it about casein that you feel you must have?


----------



## Revan132

Well pretty much the fact that it replaces milk atm in my diet. Otherwise I would be content with just whey, but I want to see if the Casein vs Whey makes a difference when timed correctly. I didn't realize anybody would be heavily scrutinizing my posts!


----------



## Harry

Revan132 said:


> Well pretty much the fact that it replaces milk atm in my diet. Otherwise I would be content with just whey, but I want to see if the Casein vs Whey makes a difference when timed correctly. I didn't realize anybody would be heavily scrutinizing my posts!



Yeah, whey will be fine. Pure casein seems to just exist purely for people that are paranoid about their muscles catabolizing overnight, so they need the "slower absorption" protein It was a myth (muscles going catabolic overnight) that was made up a while ago, and is still perpetuated, and a lot of gullible lifters still unfortunately hand over their hard earned cash to companies that are selling a product that is simply not needed and never has been.
You can eat eggs, or chicken, or even nothing before bed, and as long as you've hit your macros for the day, you're going to maintain or increase in weight, period.

If you're going to spend a decent whack of money, go for a quality meal replacement powder. They cost about the same as most pure casein protein, but they taste 1000 times better, mix better and tend to have added goodies like essential fatty acids, and just in general keep you satisfied well, so you actually really what you pay for unlike pure casein powder.


----------



## Asrial

I just did the wildest discovery ever! 
I just randomly messed around with the protein powder (dymatize elite, rich chocolate), where I added just a tiny splash of fruit juice, half a teaspoon of chai tea powder, and blended it for 10 seconds.
It turns out smoother and lighter than any protein product I've ever tasted, and tastier! If it was handed to me without me knowing what it was, I would've thought it was a milkshake!

TL;DR: Blend your shakes, don't shake them!


----------



## avenger

For protien I am using "Promasil" protien powder currently. good flavour and seems to be packed full of protien and vitamins. I cant complain at all I have had no bad experainces with it and it seems to be helping my recouvery time.

I am intrigued about creatine but not the mono type as I dont want the watery side effects. Someone mentioned "Controlled Lab Green Magnitude". Anyone got some more info on thsio for me? I dont even want to bulk up that much so I am not sure if creatine is even worth it for me.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Asrial said:


> TL;DR: Blend your shakes, don't shake them!



I used to use a shaker or take the ghetto route and just stir it with a spoon and quickly down the clumpyness. Ever since deciding to blend a few things with the protein shake I'll never go back to using a shaker or stirring. There's no clumps and depending on how much milk/water/juice you add will determine how light the mix turns out.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Do any of you guys use nitric oxide? I'm contemplating giving NO a try.

I had to modify my routine around work. I'm not a morning person, but I have to get up even earlier for my runs since I can't run after work in the dark because there are no street lights. I get up at 6am for a 5 mile run. Later in the day, around 7 or 8pm, I hit the gym for 1 & 1/2 to 2 hours. 

Would taking NO before my run and workout be beneficial? Typically, how long does it take for NO to kick in?


----------



## avenger

Never mind I am just gonna try pure Creatine Monohydrate powder in grapejuice for a month and see what happens. No loading phase, any thoughts?


----------



## Revan132

Guitarmiester said:


> Do any of you guys use nitric oxide? I'm contemplating giving NO a try.
> 
> I had to modify my routine around work. I'm not a morning person, but I have to get up even earlier for my runs since I can't run after work in the dark because there are no street lights. I get up at 6am for a 5 mile run. Later in the day, around 7 or 8pm, I hit the gym for 1 & 1/2 to 2 hours.
> 
> Would taking NO before my run and workout be beneficial? Typically, how long does it take for NO to kick in?



The first time I took NO Xplode I realized the gym was closed. I felt energy like I had never had before and my mother thought I was on drugs. 

However, if your gym is NOT closed, and you are using it to lift, then it is an excellent source of motivation/fuel to run on. I am not too sure on using it to run, but I assume it would be fine. Twice a day? I wouldn't entertain that volume in your body by any means, my friend.


----------



## Guitarmiester

I've been doing some reading up on NO. Like you mentioned, two doses a day probably isn't a good idea. I was thinking since I'm not a morning person, it'd maybe give me a needed boost in the morning. There probably isn't much of a difference if I were to pick up a bottle of l-arginine instead of these over-priced NO products that are essentially l-arginine tablets/powder.


----------



## Revan132

Basically, watch out for ingredients. I am pretty sure malodextrin is a terrible filler that I have even fallen for before. But I have had extreme success with NO Xplode in the past but don't take it anymore because a) it makes me gag at the taste (Do NOT buy lemon-lime, it is vomit colored and isn't too far off on vomit tasting), and b) because I am on OxyELITE Pro for my first ever cutting cycle and they advise no additional caffeine; most NO products have caffeine in them.
However, here's an update on my fitness status for anyone whos interested. I am in phase 2 of my transformation process. About a year and a half ago I decided to change my life, and in 3 months lost 50 lbs the old fashioned way: diet and exercise. Now I am back in the gym and aiming to get "washboard abs" like I have always dreamed. I've lost 7 lbs since I last checked a few days ago in a span of 2-3 weeks. So basically my body was originally 225 lbs, dropped to 175 lbs. I then gained 5 lbs from equalizing myself with my new weight over a few months, and now I am down to 173! I think 160 is my goal weight. For anyone curious, I am 5'10''.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Revan132 said:


> Basically, watch out for ingredients. I am pretty sure malodextrin is a terrible filler that I have even fallen for before. But I have had extreme success with NO Xplode in the past but don't take it anymore because a) it makes me gag at the taste (Do NOT buy lemon-lime, it is vomit colored and isn't too far off on vomit tasting), and b) because I am on OxyELITE Pro for my first ever cutting cycle and they advise no additional caffeine; most NO products have caffeine in them.



Have you ever tried NO pills, rather than powder? Maltodextrin seems to be in a lot of the NO powders, but not the pills. I'm not a big fan of fruity drinks, so I'm most likely going to give the NO pills a shot.


----------



## Revan132

Guitarmiester said:


> Have you ever tried NO pills, rather than powder? Maltodextrin seems to be in a lot of the NO powders, but not the pills. I'm not a big fan of fruity drinks, so I'm most likely going to give the NO pills a shot.



I don't see why they are bad other than the large quantity of pills required to get the dosage right. Try it out, can't hurt!


----------



## Guitarmiester

Not only that, but the pills are pretty massive. I'll give the pills a shot and look into powder if they're a bit much.


----------



## soliloquy

just wanna say that the IDS protein shakes are some really interesting stuff

first, kudos to IDS for making a a jar/case that is super easy to use. in other jars by other companies, its really annoying trying to get the last serving out of the case...not the case with the IDS case. 

second, great vitamin profile in it. lots of extra stuff that you normally dont see in other protein 

third, great price. cant be beat! 

fourth, the taste....not so good in my opinion. its not really 'bad' its just bland and doesn't taste like anything. you can have a very slight taste of chocolate in the background, but its not as strong as i would like. other brands like Dymatize, Iso-flex etc do a better job with chocolate...but i'm curious about its other flavors, so i'll be coming back and trying more. 

5th, the weight gain is really interesting. i've never gained this much weight this fast. i've been on it for 2 weeks, and my body fat percentage is down 2% from 18 to 15.9, and my weight has gone up 2.5 lbs! so yeah, i will come back to this! -


----------



## soliloquy

anyone have any experience with this weight gainer?
Bodybuilding.com - Dymatize Elite Mass Gainer - Quality Lean Muscle Mass!* On sale now!

i'm usually scared of weight gainers due to their excessive calories, sugar, fat, carbs etc, and fairly low protein per serving...and their servings are 300 grams or more...its INSANE!

but this one seems reasonable. 
once my protein supply is done (prolly another 4 months) i'll prolly pick this up with another protein shake and have half a serving of the gainer mixed with the other protein stuff...


----------



## Guitarmiester

That's quite a deal for a 6lb tub. The carbohydrate matrix does contain maltodextrin, so you don't know how much filler you're getting. I never saw good results from gainers. That's most likely because my workouts aren't as extreme as they should be to be taking a gainer. I took a gainer for a couple months and then switched back to whey protein and have been much happier with the results. 

My NO tablets came in the mail today and shit! These things are massive! It says to take 3 pre-workout, but I'll start out with 2 this week and bump it up to 3 next week. They're 2, if not 3, times the size of a regular multi-vitamin.


----------



## soliloquy

i hate being a hard gainer.
i just cant eat that much, and gainers can easily put more fat on you than muscle. 

even getting the recommended protein for your body (ie 1-2 grams for every pound of body weight) and i usually still stay the same....


----------



## Guitarmiester

I'm right there with you. I've always been on the skinny side no matter how much or what I eat. The mass gainers I tried helped gain weight, but I didn't have the time to workout enough to really make up for the additional caloric intake. I finished the last of the weight gainer by halving it with my regular protein shakes just so it didn't go to waste. 

I've yielded much better results eat by eating more, yet better food. The protein shakes help me stay lean, rather than pack on the pounds. I say give the gainer a shot. $40 for a 6lb tub is much more cost efficient than the stuff I was using. At that price, it can't hurt to try it. If it doesn't work out for you, then move on to something else. You can read reviews and get opinions from others, but you'll never really know until you try it yourself.


----------



## soliloquy

well, thats one of the things i'm liking about this gainer is that it has casien in it. so if i take it righ tbefore bed, it would supply my muscles with protein through out the night...however, due to the calorie intake, perhaps taht wont be such a good idea. 

but i guess i'll give it a shot.

from what i've tried, dymatize makes some incredible stuff, so i wont be surprised if it works...but then again, in the end, perhaps a gainer is a gainer is a gainer is a gainer...


also, while i'm on it, a lot of people are recommending me to start taking oats with protein shakes as it acts as a natural, clean, healthy gainer...however, i've tried oats in the past, and they always lead me to have sever gasses, bloating, and the runs...so not sure whats up with that...


----------



## Guitarmiester

Revan132 said:


> The first time I took NO Xplode I realized the gym was closed. I felt energy like I had never had before and my mother thought I was on drugs.



I've been using the NO pills since last week. I took 2 the first day and bumped up to 3 the next day. Honestly, I haven't noticed any spike in energy. By the end of my workout, I do seem to have a bit more stamina. There's a slight increase in pump, but not as drastic as people make it out to be. 

Although I don't physically feel much of a difference using NO, I do have to say I've noticed better results much faster than without NO. It does recommend taking an additional pill post-workout, which I may try this coming week.


----------



## Winspear

Just here to rep some whey for any U.K guys.
Bodybuilding Warehouse Premium Whey Protein - 4kg - Bodybuilding Supplements, Sports Supplements, Gaspari, BSN, CNP

This was the absolute cheapest whey I found (up to a third the price of everything else). It had good reviews so I got some. I've been through several tubs since and it's brilliant. Making good gains and it's so cheap! It mixes really well and is TASTY! (I got the chocolate but recently switched to choc cookie and it's even better).


----------



## USMarine75

Gaspari Superdump MAX !!!


----------



## Revan132

Guitarmiester said:


> I've been using the NO pills since last week. I took 2 the first day and bumped up to 3 the next day. Honestly, I haven't noticed any spike in energy. By the end of my workout, I do seem to have a bit more stamina. There's a slight increase in pump, but not as drastic as people make it out to be.
> 
> Although I don't physically feel much of a difference using NO, I do have to say I've noticed better results much faster than without NO. It does recommend taking an additional pill post-workout, which I may try this coming week.



Could be the brand man, I took NO Xplode, and I know for a fact that is only in powder form.


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

EtherealEntity said:


> Just here to rep some whey for any U.K guys.
> Bodybuilding Warehouse Premium Whey Protein - 4kg - Bodybuilding Supplements, Sports Supplements, Gaspari, BSN, CNP
> 
> This was the absolute cheapest whey I found (up to a third the price of everything else). It had good reviews so I got some. I've been through several tubs since and it's brilliant. Making good gains and it's so cheap! It mixes really well and is TASTY! (I got the chocolate but recently switched to choc cookie and it's even better).



You didn't look hard enough mate,
Nutrisport 90+ Protein 5Kg Chocolate: Amazon.co.uk: Sports & Leisure

This stuff doesn't taste bad, chocolate is alright, however it's not all whey, 70% of it is, the rest is casein, which isn't a bad thing, need to get my tub soon


----------



## soliloquy

so i got a question for you folks

is it normal to not be sore after your workout?
it seems, it really doesn't matter how many sets or reps i do. i feel fatigue as i'm working out and i can feel i cant go no more with that specific weight ( i never work out to failure), but just after the workout, leading up to the next few days, most of my muscles dont feel any different at all.

the only exception to this is my chest, my upper back, and almost all my muscles in my legs. sometimes i feel my bicepts and triceps sore, but for the more part, they just feel the same.

my shoulders i pay a lot of attention to (not that they are weak, but i just want more out of em), and i really dont feel much out of them. and same goes for muscles in my arms. right after the workout, it hurts to lift a spoon, but after an hour, i feel nothing different...

and i'm not on any recovery pills or anything. all i take is just mulivits (not the workout kind, just regular store bought stuff), protein supplements, and fish oils....


----------



## Guitarmiester

What does your workout consist of and how many set/reps are you doing? If you're experiencing pain, you most likely aren't using proper form. When I'm done with my workouts and pick something up it feels light as a feather and as if I can squash it with just two fingers.


----------



## aiur55

@soliloquy

It's perfectly normal to not be sore after a workout. It all depends on how hard you are pushing yourself. Since you never work to failure (which imo is the safe way to workout), you aren't pushing your body as hard as you can.
Pain isn't only from improper form, it can be because you overworked a specific part.

On another note, I have been on something called CLA (*Conjugated Linoleic Acid)* for about 3 weeks now and I think it is the best supplement I have ever taken...I have been hitting the gym only about once or twice a week during this time because of exams and this stuff has gotten me bigger somehow. Definitely recommended. Only other thing I am on right now is myofusion (protein).


----------



## TRENCHLORD

You should be sore in whatever mucsles your working. If your not then your intensity or technique are lacking. From my experience people worry far to much about the whole sets/reps/bodyparts thing and not enough about intensity. Warmup twice as much as you think you need to and then put some weight on the bar and lift it until you feel like an anorism is iminent. You should be shaking and practically convulsing before you set the weight down. Watch Mark Philipi do a deadlift for as many reps as possible and you'll see what I mean. Just one set like that and you can go home and relax while you transform into Hercules.


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

TRENCHLORD said:


> You should be sore in whatever mucsles your working. If your not then your intensity or technique are lacking. From my experience people worry far to much about the whole sets/reps/bodyparts thing and not enough about intensity. Warmup twice as much as you think you need to and then put some weight on the bar and lift it until you feel like an anorism is iminent. You should be shaking and practically convulsing before you set the weight down. Watch Mark Philipi do a deadlift for as many reps as possible and you'll see what I mean. Just one set like that and you can go home and relax while you transform into Hercules.




No and Yes
Ok,so the soreness, well the soreness actually isn't an indication of how much you pushed yourself or how good your workout was.

The question you have to ask yourself is....Am I growing?

Because surely that's the only important thing, not "oh how sore can I get my muscles tomorrow morning"

Now it's not a bad thing either to get soreness in your muscles following your workout but don't rely on it as a gauge of how well you did in your workout.Of course if it's a different type of pain as your usual sore muscles that yes I would review your technique and see what is going wrong.



As for intensity, Totally agree with you there TRENCHLORD.

soliloquy, Why are you not working to failure?, Hopefully you're not worried about injury as unless you were doing HIT style training, injuring yourself would be highly unlikely from intensity.


----------



## TXDeathMetal

So I've just about finished off the 12 lb bag of Optimum Nutrition Serious Mass Chocolate that I bought and I have to say that I am starting to see some results so I went ahead an ordered some more but this time in the Strawberry flavor which IMO taste WAY better than the Chocolate.


----------



## Revan132

TXDeathMetal said:


> So I've just about finished off the 12 lb bag of Optimum Nutrition Serious Mass Chocolate that I bought and I have to say that I am starting to see some results so I went ahead an ordered some more but this time in the Strawberry flavor which IMO taste WAY better than the Chocolate.



Probably tastes better because you are so used to the chocolate IMO. I have been taking the chocolate Isopure Whey Protein in the morning and at first I was all, "This is fucking delicious!" But now I'm all, "Whyyyy Goddddd..."


----------



## TRENCHLORD

One simple idea is go to wallyworld and buy one of those chocolate wheys and one EAS vanilla soy isolates and mix them together. makes a very complete protein, especially when mixed with milk. Remember, soy isolate is 17% glutamine so they fill in each others amino gaps quite nicely.


----------



## Guitarmiester

That EAS Vanilla Soy is NASTY! It tastes like really old vanilla cake batter. The texture is like you're drinking sandpaper. Not sure which is worse, the taste or texture.


----------



## TXDeathMetal

Revan132 said:


> Probably tastes better because you are so used to the chocolate IMO. I have been taking the chocolate Isopure Whey Protein in the morning and at first I was all, "This is fucking delicious!" But now I'm all, "Whyyyy Goddddd..."



Sounds about right as far as the chocolate goes.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

EAS VANILLA SOY WILL TUFFN YOU UP! If you can drink it you won't even need to lift weights! Thats why I said to mix it with chocalate whey. AND you better have a shaker.


----------



## TXDeathMetal

TRENCHLORD said:


> One simple idea is go to wallyworld and buy one of those chocolate wheys and one EAS vanilla soy isolates and mix them together. makes a very complete protein, especially when mixed with milk. Remember, soy isolate is 17% glutamine so they fill in each others amino gaps quite nicely.



I tried that crap you can get at Wal-Mart and tore my stomach a new one, besides paying like 18$ for 2-2.5 lbs versus paying 44$ shipping included for 12 lbs of a name brand product that taste infinitely better.... yeah I'm going to go with the 12 lb bag of name brand stuff because it's a better quality protein and a much better value that doesn't mess my stomach up.


----------



## Guitarmiester

TRENCHLORD said:


> EAS VANILLA SOY WILL TUFFN YOU UP! If you can drink it you won't even need to lift weights! Thats why I said to mix it with chocalate whey. AND you better have a shaker.



Not sure what world you're living in, but relying solely on protein shakes without any kind of exercise won't do much for you.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Dude I've deadlifted 495 for 10reps textbook form. And I can certainly tell you that it's in the work and ample calories that will transform you. Protein powders are great for convienance, but are truely not at all needed for growth. SO I'm in total agreeance with you.


----------



## soliloquy

Wingchunwarrior said:


> No and Yes
> Ok,so the soreness, well the soreness actually isn't an indication of how much you pushed yourself or how good your workout was.
> 
> The question you have to ask yourself is....Am I growing?
> 
> Because surely that's the only important thing, not "oh how sore can I get my muscles tomorrow morning"
> 
> Now it's not a bad thing either to get soreness in your muscles following your workout but don't rely on it as a gauge of how well you did in your workout.Of course if it's a different type of pain as your usual sore muscles that yes I would review your technique and see what is going wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> As for intensity, Totally agree with you there TRENCHLORD.
> 
> soliloquy, Why are you not working to failure?, Hopefully you're not worried about injury as unless you were doing HIT style training, injuring yourself would be highly unlikely from intensity.




shoulder workouts i'm doing:
-alternating side lateral raises (sometimes i use one arm to hang off a vertical pole to put more emphasis and movement on the muscle - 1 set of warm up followed by 4-5 sets of 6-10 reps

-alternating front dumbell raises- 1 set of warmup followed by 4-5 sets of 6-10 reps

-dumbell military press- i'm usually exhausted at this time, so i TRY for 3-5 sets of 3-8 reps

-bent over lateral raises- super light weights, 4-5 sets of 8-15 reps


upright rows (sometimes if i feel like it. i usually add 1 to 3 sets at the end of the work out either using dumbells or barbell)


i dont feel any pain of any sort. and i am panting as i work out, but i dont feel any soreness during or after.
one thing that does concern me is that when i'm doing side lateral raises, my right sholder i feel jumps a bit from its socket. it doesn't hurt me, but i think it may be a potential injury waiting to happen...

and i dont work out to failure anymore as i ruined my joints about 6-8 years ago doing heavy lifting. even though i've been working out for about 1 year and a half now, i'm still not doing the weights i used to do back then...


----------



## aiur55

One thing I would change about that workout is to leave the raises till the end of the exercise. I like to do the big compound lifts at the beginning of my workout and any isolations at the end so I can really feel the muscles.

I use to have problems with the shoulder clicking...elbow clicking...knee clicking...

A good warm up solved that problem for me. usually 2-3 sets with REALLY light weight, like 20% of your working weight should do the trick.

I use to work till failure and now, I just up the intensity with light weights I can for sure handle. Limit the times between sets and do super sets. Has gotten me more in shape then lifting heavy like before.

Again, not feeling sore is perfectly fine...you wake up everyday when you don't work out and you don't feel sore. It's fine.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Shoulders are a tricky machine. Over useing is so easy because they're involved in every lift we do(almost). I've always found that focusing on bench and deadlift(different days usually) and treating most other lifts as assistance lifts will lesson their load and help avoid injury. Try doing backward arm circles(moving arms as if your jumping rope backwards) between a few of your warmup sets will get alot of blood in the socket. Do the circles till your shoulders are burning like hell(takes a couple minutes at least). Then wait 1 minute and start set. Boxers do this or actually jump rope not only for conditioning, b ut also to warmup and protect those cuffs. Again, treat most lifts like lat raises as icing on the cake. Sometimes just skip them or go very lite to give those rotaters a break. Also, 2 or 3 days a week lifting is more than enough and will help drastically in the longevity department. Rotator cuff exercises like pitchers do with 5,10,or 15 pound dumbells will help build stability. If you feel your shoulders jumping around inside the socket avoid that motion or change form or grip width slightly. My goal has always been to STILL be lifting when I'm an old man. And at 36 I guess I only have a little ways to go.


----------



## Winspear

I'd also recommend doing the heavier lifts first. Here's what I'm on at the moment and it's going well:
3x8
Military press
Arnold press
Upright rows

3x10
Side and front raises

You don't _have_ to go to failure and it doesn't matter if you don't hurt the next day (only my legs and back ever do really). I'd say just makesure to use a weight that you wouldn't be able to make an extra 2/3 reps on the last set.


----------



## Guitarmiester

aiur55 said:


> I use to work till failure and now, I just up the intensity with light weights I can for sure handle. Limit the times between sets and do super sets. Has gotten me more in shape then lifting heavy like before



Other than using light weights, this is what I do. I don't give myself much time between sets. It's probably not for everyone, but works for me.


----------



## soliloquy

well, i almost always use super sets, or even triple sets with less than a few seconds of rest in between sets. its usually enough to change the weights. as such, my work outs usually last 20-50 minutes excluding warmups and cardio. i generally hit heavy and fast

also, my split works like this (in no particular order)

day 1- Major: chest, minor: triceps
day 2- upper and lower back. minor: traps
day 3- shoulders
day 4- legs
day 5- Major: biceps and triceps. minor: wrists
day 6- major abs. minor: anything i hadn't paid much attention to through out the week
day 7- repeat the process, or rest


----------



## soliloquy

ive been looking around and for every post that says 'chocolate milk is good for you' another replies by saying the opposite. both having 'university studies' and 'doctors' and 'scientists' that suggest chocolate milk is good and bad for you...

just looking at its label, i can see that chocolate milk and coke have roughly the same amount of sugar, so that cant be good. 
plus, chocolate also prevents calcium absorption, so that cant be good either. 
plus, chocolate milk also has saturated fat, which REALLY isn't good for you!

but on the other hand, they say that chocolate milk helps muscle recover faster (i dont think this takes into account any protein or recovery supplements... and its compared to just water?). 
chocolate also helps your brain function better
helps with blood circulation
and chocolate milk has 'good carbs'...

so what exactly is it?

if its good for you, cant one use it as a gainer? add whey in it, and there you go? but the sugar is kinda scary in it...


----------



## kung_fu

Not sure tbh. I know they have quite an aggressive advertising campaign for milk during basketball games . I drink it, but only once a week as a treat. I do drink 0-1% milk every day _without_ chocolate . Or just add chocolate flavored whey to regular milk if it's the sugar that worries you, as there usually isn't much added sucgars in most flavored whey


----------



## Revan132

soliloquy said:


> ive been looking around and for every post that says 'chocolate milk is good for you' another replies by saying the opposite. both having 'university studies' and 'doctors' and 'scientists' that suggest chocolate milk is good and bad for you...
> 
> just looking at its label, i can see that chocolate milk and coke have roughly the same amount of sugar, so that cant be good.
> plus, chocolate also prevents calcium absorption, so that cant be good either.
> plus, chocolate milk also has saturated fat, which REALLY isn't good for you!
> 
> but on the other hand, they say that chocolate milk helps muscle recover faster (i dont think this takes into account any protein or recovery supplements... and its compared to just water?).
> chocolate also helps your brain function better
> helps with blood circulation
> and chocolate milk has 'good carbs'...
> 
> so what exactly is it?
> 
> if its good for you, cant one use it as a gainer? add whey in it, and there you go? but the sugar is kinda scary in it...



Chocolate milk is straight up horrible for you. If you want post-recovery food, I would suggest some kind of fruit (The insulin spike that most people desire after their workouts is healthy with fruit as opposed to all of the sugar that is in chocolate milk). The idea is to eat a simple carbohydrate based food/drink following strenuous activity as a means of recovering the body. However, chocolate milk is pretty terrible if you are at all worried about body fat percentage, or you are cutting. By comparing it to Coke, you have the right idea! The sugar isn't necessarily from a natural source, and serves no purpose but to sabotage your healthy goals. Bottom line: avoid it and substitute it with a scoop of chocolate whey protein, and/or some fruit (I personally eat an orange afterwards). A big thing you want to be looking at is carb content, in other words, where does it come from? If the sugar content equals close to what the carb content is, you can be assured that those carbs are entirely empty and devoid of nutrition. Subtract from the total carb content of the food the dietary fiber it contains (As well as your sugar alcohols), and you have your net carb content... this is an important concept to grasp and it is important to ensure that you avoid empty carbs (sugars, candies, chocolate, refined grains) and go straight to whole grains! I am personally doing a carb cycle myself, 6 days low carb, 1 day high carb. Works like a charm with interval training and a regular lifting schedule, the fat is peeling off!

Sorry for the book. 

Edit: Also, saturated fat isn't good for you in excess amounts, but it should have a place in your diet!


----------



## Bevo

Good info here!

I am looking at a Whey protien that is going to be good for my lactose intolerance, what do you recomend?
I can eat cheese, half a cup of yogurt and a small amount of ice cream so its not deadly.

For me its for the protien content I need as I don't eat meat, also to help rebuild after running. I am not looking to gain muscle, well not much but am looking to improve my speed and endurance.

Thanks!


----------



## soliloquy

Bevo said:


> Good info here!
> 
> I am looking at a Whey protien that is going to be good for my lactose intolerance, what do you recomend?
> I can eat cheese, half a cup of yogurt and a small amount of ice cream so its not deadly.
> 
> For me its for the protien content I need as I don't eat meat, also to help rebuild after running. I am not looking to gain muscle, well not much but am looking to improve my speed and endurance.
> 
> Thanks!




welcome, another torontonian!

just curious as to why you dont eat meat...

perhaps you aren't familiar with it, but whey comes from meat as well. its not a vegan/vegetarian substitute. i told this to a vegan friend of mine and that really got him depressed. 

soy would be your other option, but you'd have to consume maybe about triple of it just to get the same effect as whey. 


but if you are fine with whey coming from meat, try isolates. i'd recommend Dymatize ISO-100. maybe their vanilla or chocolate. really good stuff.


*EDIT: revan132 corrected me. whey is not made from meat!*


----------



## Revan132

Bevo said:


> Good info here!
> 
> I am looking at a Whey protien that is going to be good for my lactose intolerance, what do you recomend?
> I can eat cheese, half a cup of yogurt and a small amount of ice cream so its not deadly.
> 
> For me its for the protien content I need as I don't eat meat, also to help rebuild after running. I am not looking to gain muscle, well not much but am looking to improve my speed and endurance.
> 
> Thanks!



You can't really go wrong with Optimum, but I am going to switch over to Gaspari's Myofusion (Blend of egg, whey, casein proteins). I currently take Isopure, but after you are done ingesting 7.5 lbs of it in less than 2 months, you generally want to never taste it again, lest you get ill. 
Edit: And I am pretty damn sure whey comes only from milk, not from meat, as was suggested above me.


----------



## soliloquy

Revan132 said:


> You can't really go wrong with Optimum, but I am going to switch over to Gaspari's Myofusion (Blend of egg, whey, casein proteins). I currently take Isopure, but after you are done ingesting 7.5 lbs of it in less than 2 months, you generally want to never taste it again, lest you get ill.
> Edit: And I am pretty damn sure whey comes only from milk, not from meat, as was suggested above me.



ahh! i stand corrected! 
i think i'm thinking of creatine?


----------



## Revan132

soliloquy said:


> ahh! i stand corrected!
> i think i'm thinking of creatine?



Indeed you are soliloquy! Creatine entirely comes from meat. No worries


----------



## Bevo

You got me there, I thought it was from Milk which is ok for me.

So the Dymatize ISO-100 is a Whey?

For me meat makes me sick literaly, ever since i was a kid I just never liked it and when i had a choice I got away from it. Once in my 20's I pretty much avoided it except for fish and a bit of chicken. Now in my 40's I have not had any meat for years and have never felt better.
Bottom line its a health thing for me, I still love the smell and taste but after one bite i had enough, if i eat to much I get a meat hangover LOL!!
Last year I had a pork chop and for 3 days I had the exact same hangover as I would from a bottle of Whiskey!!


----------



## soliloquy

Bevo said:


> You got me there, I thought it was from Milk which is ok for me.
> 
> So the Dymatize ISO-100 is a Whey?
> 
> For me meat makes me sick literaly, ever since i was a kid I just never liked it and when i had a choice I got away from it. Once in my 20's I pretty much avoided it except for fish and a bit of chicken. Now in my 40's I have not had any meat for years and have never felt better.
> Bottom line its a health thing for me, I still love the smell and taste but after one bite i had enough, if i eat to much I get a meat hangover LOL!!
> Last year I had a pork chop and for 3 days I had the exact same hangover as I would from a bottle of Whiskey!!



if you're worried about your protein intake and dont want to rely completely on protein supplements, then look up something called a quinoa. its kinda like a mixture of oat meal and rice, but different. really really high in protein and all sorts of other things that are good for you. also, its 100% veggi. 

and dymatize iso-100 isn't the only thing out there, but you're mainly looking for an isolate, any isolate. i just named dymatize as its one of the better protein out there in terms of digestion. i dont think i've ever had anything that sits THAT well in your stomach before. plus, if you're into cutting your body fat, then you'd be hard pressed to find anything better than iso-100 due to its minimal calories and all. great great stuff, and i can not recommend it more!

isoflex is another one, but its fairly expensive

look into bodybuilding.com for fairly cheap stuff around


----------



## Bevo

I get plenty of protien in my regular food but find to much Soy, trying to mix it up a bit more before I grow some boobs...

The drink is for a after the run, I find a good shot of protien right after i finish makes me run that much better the next day.
This 20-30 gram hit will I think give me some decent performance gains.

I will track down an isolate of some sort and try it out.
Thanks!!


----------



## soliloquy

oh boy! 
if you're taking soy supplements, you'll be REALLY amazed at the difference between soy and whey, or isolate. 

if memory serves me correct, about 25% of the soy protein supplement is used by the body, while the other goes to waste. even soy in itsself cant really be processed by the body that well. however, whey/isolates on the other hand are absorbed much better and more efficiently. i think its absorption rate is 80-98%? so, much much higher, faster gains too


----------



## Bevo

Really!!

Now i need to go shopping and try this stuff out, I imagine a GNC will have what I need.
Once I try it for a few days I will let you know how it goes!

Thanks for your help!!


----------



## Revan132

Bevo said:


> Really!!
> 
> Now i need to go shopping and try this stuff out, I imagine a GNC will have what I need.
> Once I try it for a few days I will let you know how it goes!
> 
> Thanks for your help!!


 Unless it's Gold Card Week, (First week of the month, and you have to be a member) GNC Prices are extortion. Buy from bodybuilding.com


----------



## soliloquy

Bevo said:


> Really!!
> 
> Now i need to go shopping and try this stuff out, I imagine a GNC will have what I need.
> Once I try it for a few days I will let you know how it goes!
> 
> Thanks for your help!!




since you're in canada, and you dont want to buy online, then i would recommend either popeyes, or local mom n pop drug stores that provide decent prices in comparison to GNC. 

however, if you want to save yourself at least 20-40 bucks for a 5lbs jug, then i would recommend bodybuilding.com. 

stuff like an iso-100 from popeyes costs me about 80 plus bucks from popeyes, plus tax, and that comes to near 100 dollars....

same stuff on bb.com would be for about 50 bucks, plus shipping, and you got it for 60ish to 70ish bucks. would be better if you buy in bulk as it eats away on the shipping...


----------



## soliloquy

Revan132 said:


> Unless it's Gold Card Week, (First week of the month, and you have to be a member) GNC Prices are extortion. Buy from bodybuilding.com



do you purchase anything from bb.com?
i recently found this website that is MUCH cheaper than bb.com. 
however, it becomes FAR expensive if shipped to canada. 
so since i'll be visiting ohio in late april, i'll just use the prices from AllStarHealth.com - Discount Vitamins | Nutritional Supplements | Bodybuilding Supplements and apply it to bb.com for price match.

i just trust bb.com more due to them having 7 million plus transactions, while allstar has 1 million...

and i'll be spending about 180 on the order. the same stuff, if i got it from bb.com would cost me over 240, so hey!


----------



## Revan132

soliloquy said:


> do you purchase anything from bb.com?
> i recently found this website that is MUCH cheaper than bb.com.
> however, it becomes FAR expensive if shipped to canada.
> so since i'll be visiting ohio in late april, i'll just use the prices from AllStarHealth.com - Discount Vitamins | Nutritional Supplements | Bodybuilding Supplements and apply it to bb.com for price match.
> 
> i just trust bb.com more due to them having 7 million plus transactions, while allstar has 1 million...
> 
> and i'll be spending about 180 on the order. the same stuff, if i got it from bb.com would cost me over 240, so hey!



Unless I am really eager to get my supplements (And it happens to be Gold Card Week at GNC), I exclusively buy from bodybuilding.com. However, I will definitely take a look! I am always up for saving money!


----------



## Bevo

Crap, I already bought from GNC in the normal sized jug at $38, this was the house brand.
I will work this out as I go along.

Short review, got the vanilla and mixed it with some fruit in the blender after my run.
Taste was mild and not that chemical taste i hate, not sure if it was in my head but I could feel it in my blood and it gave me a buzz for 20 min.

My belly did not complain and 20 min later I was starving so it got absorbed as advertised!

Thanks for your help, I think this will be good for me!!


----------



## soliloquy

glad it worked out for you.
though the starving part may not necessarily be due to the shake. 
what i mean is, since isolates, or whey in general have such lil calories, you can hardly get that 'full' feeling with them alone. especially if you mix it with water. mix it with milk and you may get that...but yeah.


----------



## soliloquy

anyone of you guys heard of any companies that aren't offering what their label says?
while researching, i came across IDS multi-whey isolate. in 2004, there were a few reports about it not being true to the label, then other reports saying it is true. and since then, all reports have been dead....

dymatize whey protien also had the same thing for a bit, but again, no confirmation either way...

so just wondering how true are brands?
sure, if they mess around, they wont be in business....

but what are the chances that if the mix says it will give you 25 grams of protein, but in actual it gives you just 5 grams of protein?


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

Just bought some jack3d,my first ever No2/pump/preworkout supplement!

Also as I've got back into training and a proper diet I've been taking Xl whey protein.Don't know if any of you guys have tried it but its definitely a bargain.It mixes well, tastes great and has 21g of protein per 30g of powder and it only cost me £18 for 2kg

How much do people spend on food as well as about a week a go I bought 5kg of chicken breast(not waterpumped) for £27.50 which I thought was pretty good.


----------



## Winspear

^ That's nice  It would cost me £45 for that much chicken breast. I spend 30 a week on tuna, chicken, milk and protein powder. 5 on other stuff like veggies and rice.

Any idea what the difference between Morrisons normal and value chicken breasts may be? Neither are free range, both are class A, same nutriton, and taste the same. I'd like to save some money.
Where did you get that 5kg chicken?


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

EtherealEntity said:


> ^ That's nice  It would cost me £45 for that much chicken breast. I spend 30 a week on tuna, chicken, milk and protein powder. 5 on other stuff like veggies and rice.
> 
> Any idea what the difference between Morrisons normal and value chicken breasts may be? Neither are free range, both are class A, same nutriton, and taste the same. I'd like to save some money.
> Where did you get that 5kg chicken?



From a butchers mate,an expensive one at that,another butchers gave me a quote of 4.90 a kilo if i bought 10kg but I don't have enough space to store that amount.As for other food,tuna i spend £3 for 4 cans at asda,I eat 1 can a day so that works out at about £5.50 per week,eggs,I eat 3 large free range a day and it costs me £4 for 24.Most of the food I buy comes from Asda just because it's just beside my gym and its pretty cheap


----------



## Winspear

Might have to check out Asda for the tuna. I try to keep it cheap because I'm already spending far more than I want to as a student haha. I used to get cheap stuff for 54p a can but it's 79p now.

How much meat would you say you get off of those breasts? I presume they aren't fillets, for such a good price. Fillets are actually all I've ever bought, £7.70 per kilo of edible meat I pay at the moment.


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

Well what do you mean? All of the meat I buy is just chicken,there's no bones,skin or anything else just 5kg of chicken breast,all of it I can eat.

The only problem atm is I put the chicken breast in the freezer without bags or plastic between them so every time I want a breast I have to either bang the frozen block of meat with a rolling pin or use a screwdriver and hammer to pry the breasts a part


----------



## Winspear

Wow, that's what I meant  I just didn't think you'd 5kg of actual meat for that cheap haha, I'll have to check out a butchers! 

Yeah, defrosting is not fun


----------



## Uncreative123

soliloquy said:


> anyone of you guys heard of any companies that aren't offering what their label says?
> while researching, i came across IDS multi-whey isolate. in 2004, there were a few reports about it not being true to the label, then other reports saying it is true. and since then, all reports have been dead....
> 
> dymatize whey protien also had the same thing for a bit, but again, no confirmation either way...
> 
> so just wondering how true are brands?
> sure, if they mess around, they wont be in business....
> 
> but what are the chances that if the mix says it will give you 25 grams of protein, but in actual it gives you just 5 grams of protein?



LOL, that's like every supp. company ever. How many times has BSN been sued now? Cytosport recently got busted for having Arsenic and other shit in Muscle Milk. Tren-Xtreme was actually Tren in pill form. Everytime it happens you'll usually see a new bottle and "new formula" marked on it. There's no regulation in the supplement industry. You will constantly get screwed and be putting God knows what into your body. Some of these supps are more dangerous than A.S....and at five times the cost!


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

Uncreative123 said:


> LOL, that's like every supp. company ever. How many times has BSN been sued now? Cytosport recently got busted for having Arsenic and other shit in Muscle Milk. Tren-Xtreme was actually Tren in pill form. Everytime it happens you'll usually see a new bottle and "new formula" marked on it. There's no regulation in the supplement industry. You will constantly get screwed and be putting God knows what into your body. Some of these supps are more dangerous than A.S....and at five times the cost!



What's dangerous about a.s?


----------



## gunshow86de

Wingchunwarrior said:


> What's dangerous about a.s?



Nobody really knows, because scientists aren't permitted to do long term studies (at least in the US anyway).

Anybody interested should watch Bigger, Faster, Stronger.

Bigger, Stronger, Faster | Watch Free Documentary Online


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

gunshow86de said:


> Nobody really knows, because scientists aren't permitted to do long term studies (at least in the US anyway).
> 
> Anybody interested should watch Bigger, Faster, Stronger.
> 
> Bigger, Stronger, Faster | Watch Free Documentary Online



haha mate tbh i was sort of waiting for someone to post "what's NOT wrong with as!!!,BRAINZ TUMORZ OMGZ,SMALL DICKKKK ITS CHEATINGG!!" as i've seen many many of examples of the above even some on here.But you had to ruin my fun by watching Bigger,stronger,faster and actually know a bit about as

But seriously, Bigger,stronger,faster is one of my all time favourite documentaries,its very entertaining and makes you think quite a bit about these so called death drugs that destroy lives that instantly make you a cheater.


----------



## Uncreative123

Wingchunwarrior said:


> What's dangerous about a.s?



If you don't know what you're doing, then a lot. There's a lot to keep your eye on, HBH, BPH, kidney health, gyno, etc. etc. The compounds you use will determine which side-effects you will have to pay most attention to. Pro-hormones are worse than all that shit and they're "legal". Plus all the bogus PCT stuff they sell to recovery from this stuff just makes it worse. All these kids can walk into nutri-shop and pick this stuff up, then they have no idea what they're doing and half of them probably won't even read the instructions on the label. They can total ruin their endocrine system and I've seen it happen. 20 year old kids on TRT for the rest of their lives. Pro-hormones and all the other crap like that I would never mess with.


----------



## Guitarmiester

As a runner, what kind of supplements should I be taking? I typically run 3-5 miles, 4-5 days a week. I know I don't need to be slamming protein shakes like I do after lifting, which I also do 4-6 days a week. 

I recently picked up a small tub of glutamine that I've been adding to my protein shakes post-workout. After my run today, I added two teaspoons of glutamine to a bottle of water. That shit tastes worse than it smells, so maybe I'll pick up a few Gatorades to mask the terrible taste of the glutamine. Plus, I would assume the added sugar and electrolytes from Gatorade would be beneficial over plain old water. 

Any suggestions?


----------



## soliloquy

/\ whats your goal? lose weight, gain muscle, cut (as in cutting fat off your body) etc?


----------



## Guitarmiester

Definitely not cutting, if anything I need to gain. I know you really can't replace getting in quality meals every day, but I don't usually have the time to make or even eat full meals. Just wondering if there's anything I should look into in addition to attempting to get my meals in every day.


----------



## MacTown09

Glutamine is a good start. I recommend getting some BCAA drink though such as Scivation Xtend. Especially if you are wanting to gain, but still stay trim and be a great endurance athlete. It helps you retain muscle through all the heavy running you will do. BCAAs will basically help you get the most out of your work out and help recovery


----------



## Guitarmiester

Thanks! I'll definitely look into Scivation Xtend. Which flavor(s) have you tried?


----------



## Uncreative123

Guitarmiester said:


> Thanks! I'll definitely look into Scivation Xtend. Which flavor(s) have you tried?




The brand of BCAA is irrelevant. Just keep your eye on the label for how much of each- and more importantly WHICH BCAA's are in it. Most brands have the big three and it's only the amount of g/mg that varies. Anything else is just for flash.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Thanks for the heads-up. I used to look for certain brands when shopping for whey protein and eventually realized I was wasting money. Any suggestions for BCAA or even a good starting point when looking?


----------



## soliloquy

idk..if you're trying to gain, i think you'd gain VERY little very slowly if you run. running is great for cutting down weight, or trimming yourself down a bit. but because it doesn't take that many muscles into use, you wont really gain much. 

now unless you're lifting AND running, then thats different....


----------



## Uncreative123

Guitarmiester said:


> Thanks for the heads-up. I used to look for certain brands when shopping for whey protein and eventually realized I was wasting money. Any suggestions for BCAA or even a good starting point when looking?



The Intek Evolution stuff is legit, I think you can only get it at Nutrishop though- it's in a Green bottle/white lid. The lime flavor is delicous. The Biotest caps are pretty good too, but you'll be taking a lot of pills that way and their shit is always expensive. Worth it if you have the money though.

You are going to have a near impossible time trying to gain weight while running 3-5 miles 4-5 times a week....and lifting. It's over kill and probably crushing your CNS. Unless you're some type of athlete where that much cardio is part of your job, you'll need to severely reduce it and ramp up the *heavy* lifting if you want to gain weight/muscle. You probably also need to eat more. Most people who "can't" gain weight just don't eat enough. They say they do, until they post their diet and then it becomes quite obvious they're nowhere near the caloric intake they should be at. I don't know if you've said how much you weigh, but I'm gonna take a shot in the dark and say you're not consuming anywhere near 4-5k cal/day.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate the help. 

I'm not heavily into sports like when I was younger, it's tough to find the time for that on top of everything else. I got back into running for two reasons: breathing and stress reducer. When I was a kid I had asthma and usually ignored it and didn't let it interfere with what I wanted to do. I have grown out of it, but I have noticed that picking up running again has improved my breathing. It's not a world of a change, but enough to make it worth while. Running is a great, simple way to clear my head after an aggravating day of work. I have plenty of fairly scenic areas to run around here, which really helps clear my head and let go of the annoyance of the incompetent people I work with. 

As for lifting, I have been gradually upping it to the point where I still retain proper form. I know and have admitted to not eating enough on a daily basis. That's my biggest problem. It's difficult to get around when I typically work 10 hour days, 30-45 minutes break, and a 30 minute drive to/from work. As much as I'd like to make a good sized meal, slaving around the kitchen at 8pm isn't on the top of my list. 

I use supplements for what they are, supplements, not a replacement. With everything in perspective, I really should focus on ways to get my meals in regardless of time constraints.


----------



## Winspear

Uncreative123 said:


> You are going to have a near impossible time trying to gain weight while running 3-5 miles 4-5 times a week....and lifting.



This  If you're trying to build, this is a huge waste of calories to say the least.


----------



## Winspear

Posted that a little early. 
As for the breathing, if you focus on that whilst weight lifting you can benefit from it there too.
I can understand the problems with food. If you haven't already, realise how convinient milk is. A pint of full fat milk will get you close to 400 calories, and 20 grams of protein. You can drink that in 10 seconds. If you're eating healthy, it will cover your minimal fat requirements and you needn't worry about getting too much fat. Especially if your doing some (I'd suggest quite a bit less) running. Drink milk whenever you can at work. I have 3 pints a day, with 3 scoops of whey protein. If you can't do the whey at work, just double up scoops in the morning and before bed with water, or more milk!


----------



## Guitarmiester

Looks like I'll put running on the backburner, as it surely is burning a lot of calories that I need. 

I drink a lot of milk. Typically have at least 2 glasses a day, probably more along the lines of 3-4 because I used quite a lot of milk in my protein shakes. I never really thought about bringing milk to work since I normally go through 2-3 bottles of water.


----------



## Uncreative123

Eating is still the hardest thing for me even at 227-230 lbs. I started lifting at 190 lbs, got down to my lowest weight of 174, and from there bulked up to where I am now- so it can be done. I can't eat in the mornings so I always have two servings of whatever protein drink I'm taking at the time. It's the best way to get extra cal. and protein. There are many a times I have to force myself to eat when I'm not hungry and it sucks, but you just have to man up and understand that it needs to be done and push through. 

Congrats on being able to give up cardio so easily. A lot of people I see bitch about it and then say they'd rather do that than lift and just keep doing the same thing and go nowhere. Most people forget that lifting is still a form of cardio.


----------



## Guitarmiester

That's good to hear others aren't up for eating in the morning. Most people find it strange that I'm not hungry in the morning and have to force myself to eat. A protein drink with breakfast sounds like a great idea. Have you ever tried any gainers? I used a gainer for a few months straight, saw results, but not the results I wanted. That was most likely due to my workout not being as involved as it is now. Even so, I'd be a little weary to start using a gainer again. It's tempting with all those calories though. 

It wouldn't be so easy to give up the running if I didn't get a new weight bench. My new one has the ability to work my legs as well. Another big factor in why I started running was because we got a Jack Russell Terrier last September that has more energy than should even be allowed. Taking him on runs with me helped drain a small percentage of his energy, anything is better than nothing lol. That's really my only concern about ditching running. 

I was going to have today be my last day of running since it's mad nice out and I have the day off, but decided against it. If I went today, I'd keep pushing it back.


----------



## Uncreative123

Guitarmiester said:


> That's good to hear others aren't up for eating in the morning. Most people find it strange that I'm not hungry in the morning and have to force myself to eat. A protein drink with breakfast sounds like a great idea. Have you ever tried any gainers? I used a gainer for a few months straight, saw results, but not the results I wanted. That was most likely due to my workout not being as involved as it is now. Even so, I'd be a little weary to start using a gainer again. It's tempting with all those calories though.
> 
> It wouldn't be so easy to give up the running if I didn't get a new weight bench. My new one has the ability to work my legs as well. Another big factor in why I started running was because we got a Jack Russell Terrier last September that has more energy than should even be allowed. Taking him on runs with me helped drain a small percentage of his energy, anything is better than nothing lol. That's really my only concern about ditching running.
> 
> I was going to have today be my last day of running since it's mad nice out and I have the day off, but decided against it. If I went today, I'd keep pushing it back.



You don't have to give up running altogether- especially if that's part of you and your dogs regiment. As far as ''gainers'' go, "it depends". Most of them are just copious amounts of carbs. When you look at the serving sizes it's always like 4 scoops too. I always felt bloated after having them and I didn't need any extra carbs anyway, so I stopped taking that garbage. Most people don't need THAT many extra carbs. Just try to get your protein intake to a minimum of 1g/per lb of bodyweight. Ideally, you want to be around 1.5 - 2g per lb of bodyweight to really see results. Don't listen to anyone that says your body can't absorb more than "X" grams of protein per serving/meal. 

If you don't know how much you're getting, then write it down throughout the day for one full week. You'll be astonished. Might as well do calories too. Most people don't get near what they think they are getting. Just make sure you write it down when you eat otherwise you'll forget...trust me.

After the new bench comment, I'm wondering how you plan on training legs though...


----------



## Anton

Gainers are great, I usually add a bit of protein to the gainer since they load it with carbs but it lacks some protein.
A good thing also is to take a Gainer shake before you go to bed(like 30-50 minutes before), you'll wake up hungry.
Another good thing about gainers is that it develops some appetite in the long term which can help people that need to force themselves to eat.


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

Guitarmiester said:


> That's good to hear others aren't up for eating in the morning. Most people find it strange that I'm not hungry in the morning and have to force myself to eat. A protein drink with breakfast sounds like a great idea. Have you ever tried any gainers? I used a gainer for a few months straight, saw results, but not the results I wanted. That was most likely due to my workout not being as involved as it is now. Even so, I'd be a little weary to start using a gainer again. It's tempting with all those calories though.
> 
> It wouldn't be so easy to give up the running if I didn't get a new weight bench. My new one has the ability to work my legs as well. Another big factor in why I started running was because we got a Jack Russell Terrier last September that has more energy than should even be allowed. Taking him on runs with me helped drain a small percentage of his energy, anything is better than nothing lol. That's really my only concern about ditching running.
> 
> I was going to have today be my last day of running since it's mad nice out and I have the day off, but decided against it. If I went today, I'd keep pushing it back.




For gainers, i would recommend just doing your own,for instance protein shake +well refined oats,or protein shake+dextrose or waxy maize starch or whatever its called,it will turn out cheaper than a weight gainer.

The other benefit of doing your own weight gainer shakes is that the different timing and different types of carbs you need throughout the day.As you need simple carbs such as sugars,fruit etc before and after a workout to raise insulin levels and drive nutrients into your muscles and the rest of the day you need complex or "starch" carbs oats,potatoes rice pasta etc,if you have a weight gainer you're only gonna get one type of carbohydrate and you won't have the full potential of carbs.

if you're having trouble eating try something like Whey+2 teaspoons of evoo+peanut butter+milk+oats,bare in mind that this sort of thing can't really be done in a shaker rather a blender would be better, but what you have is a good nutritious shake that taste's nice and relatively easy to get down ya.


----------



## MacTown09

Uncreative123 said:


> You are going to have a near impossible time trying to gain weight while running 3-5 miles 4-5 times a week....and lifting.



Disagree with this big time. 

Running does help you stay trim, but that doesn't mean it depletes your muscle mass with no questions asked. Especially if you manipulate your running workouts to help build even more muscle.

Brag about myself for a sec:
I started at 150 lbs at 6 ft 2.5 in and am currently at 195 lbs (almost been a 2 year period). I got my body fat measured the other day and am right below 5%. I can bench bout 280, leg press 800, run under a 5 minute mile, 32 in. vertical, and I can say that I definitely look bigger. People say they want to bulk up, but I advise against it when you have the ability to get big but still keep tight muscle (lemme see them striations!) in the long run.

Basically just try and manipulate your running to get the most out of your muscle building activities as well. And use glutamine! It reallys help you retain muscle while you sweat your brains out on the track


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

MacTown09 said:


> Disagree with this big time.
> 
> Running does help you stay trim, but that doesn't mean it depletes your muscle mass with no questions asked. Especially if you manipulate your running workouts to help build even more muscle.
> 
> Brag about myself for a sec:
> I started at 150 lbs at 6 ft 2.5 in and am currently at 195 lbs (almost been a 2 year period). I got my body fat measured the other day and am right below 5%. I can bench bout 280, leg press 800, run under a 5 minute mile, 32 in. vertical, and I can say that I definitely look bigger. People say they want to bulk up, but I advise against it when you have the ability to get big but still keep tight muscle (lemme see them striations!) in the long run.
> 
> Basically just try and manipulate your running to get the most out of your muscle building activities as well. And use glutamine! It reallys help you retain muscle while you sweat your brains out on the track



ok,running yes it has benefits in conclusion with weightlifting and gaining muscle:endurance,pumps blood and improves function of capillaries leading to better workout,maintains heart so it can keep up with extra muscle mass etc etc,but when you put it along side the fact that Guitarmeister does not have the time nor appetite to eat what you would need to successfully increase muscle mass to the best he could.IMO he shouldn't stop running but if he wants to pack on size he will need to prioritize weightlifting and everything else that comes with it above running.

Also let me just say It's highly unlikely that you are 5% bodyfat,Can I ask how you measured it?I've had my bodyfat % taken and it varied by 2% and above in the same day just to put in perspective how inaccurate some methods can be.The reason why I say it is because 5% is pretty much BB competiton level and bbers don't walk around at that bodyfat as it's very hard to keep it that way.

I was gonna say something about glutamine suplements and how they're pointless but I can't be bothered atm,summary: you get enough of it in ya food.


----------



## Uncreative123

Wingchunwarrior said:


> Also let me just say It's highly unlikely that you are 5% bodyfat,Can I ask how you measured it?I've had my bodyfat % taken and it varied by 2% and above in the same day just to put in perspective how inaccurate some methods can be.The reason why I say it is because 5% is pretty much BB competiton level and bbers don't walk around at that bodyfat as it's very hard to keep it that way.



lol, this. Self body-fat testing is incredibly inaccurate- calipers or electric scale. On the same day there is a 4% difference for me between the two. The only "accurate" method is when you're submerged in the pool.
And being 6'2" and 195 isn't something to brag about. In fact that means YOU need to eat more. We're the same height and I weigh 35 lbs more than you. (Granted, I'm not at 5% bf, lol...) 
I'm gonna go ahead and call BS on the "nearly 280" bench, vids or it didn't happen; and an 800 lb leg press isn't something to be proud of either. In fact, I've never seen somebody use a LP max as an indicator of leg strength ever, lol. Because you didn't say how much you squat or DL, I'm wondering if you're actually benching on a Smith, which would put your bench a lot lower, and make more sense. I say this because I saw your video in this thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/re...album-my-journey-thread-form.html#post2275302 and you don't really look like you lift at all. 

I don't really know why you're "disagreeing big time" when you've only been at it for two years. Most people don't have a clue what they're doing for the first two years before they get serious. You can pretty much do whatever you want for the first year or so and see results- I know that happened to me. In fact I use to jog at least two miles every day and eventually stopped altogether. Sure enough my lifts started going up because my CNS was able to recovery. The FACT of the matter is, 3-5 miles of running a day will significantly reduce any chance of getting bigger, short of AS use. This is common knowledge. When is the last time you saw a professional body-builder or power lifter running? Not saying he wants to be at that level because there aren't many that do, but if you want to gain like one, you need to train like one.


----------



## Anton

Running is good, but running 4-5 times a weak can cause some trouble YET if you eat enough it shouldn't be a problem(this is where the gainers come in handy), beside that I'm always for bulking clean..and not adding fat this process is slower but much better in the long term, at least for me.

Im 6'1 210 pounds with 7% BF and i started 6' 140! and I'm am Muay Thai fighter(Going to the gym for the last 5 years but i'm not to gain any more weight due to Muay Thai competitions) the workouts are far more intense than running and I still gained weight. You just need to find your balance with food and cardio.


----------



## MacTown09

Uncreative123 said:


> And being 6'2" and 195 isn't something to brag about. In fact that means YOU need to eat more. We're the same height and I weigh 35 lbs more than you. (Granted, I'm not at 5% bf, lol...)
> I'm gonna go ahead and call BS on the "nearly 280" bench, vids or it didn't happen; and an 800 lb leg press isn't something to be proud of either. In fact, I've never seen somebody use a LP max as an indicator of leg strength ever, lol. Because you didn't say how much you squat or DL, I'm wondering if you're actually benching on a Smith, which would put your bench a lot lower, and make more sense. I say this because I saw your video in this thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/re...album-my-journey-thread-form.html#post2275302 and you don't really look like you lift at all.
> 
> I don't really know why you're "disagreeing big time" when you've only been at it for two years. Most people don't have a clue what they're doing for the first two years before they get serious. You can pretty much do whatever you want for the first year or so and see results- I know that happened to me. In fact I use to jog at least two miles every day and eventually stopped altogether. Sure enough my lifts started going up because my CNS was able to recovery. The FACT of the matter is, 3-5 miles of running a day will significantly reduce any chance of getting bigger, short of AS use. This is common knowledge. When is the last time you saw a professional body-builder or power lifter running? Not saying he wants to be at that level because there aren't many that do, but if you want to gain like one, you need to train like one.



Well he said "as a runner" in his original question on the supplements that are good to take to gain a little mass. I answered this question from a runners stand point and showed my experiences and results as a runner. 

I don't doubt that your bigger and stronger than me and I am well aware that I am not extremely strong and bulky, but I also did put in some other info like about my mile time and vertical. I put my leg press of 800 because I never have maxed on squat due to a tumor I have on my left knee that gets really painful on heavy squats. Oh and no, that's my flat bench.

He said he wanted to be a runner with more mass, not a power lifter or body builder. That is the point I was coming from which is contradictory to your stand point as it seems (not saying yours is inferior!). 

Haha and sorry my physique didn't appeal to you in my video. Go ahead and PM me your email and I will send you over a better pic.

Not trying to fight with ya brooo! Just givin my 2 cents


----------



## MacTown09

Oh and me "disagreeing big time" was just me trying to be supportive of his goals which are to gain mass and be a runner. I was trying to show that it's possible even though the size and strength results might not make you as big as someone like Creative123.


----------



## Uncreative123

MacTown09 said:


> Well he said "as a runner" in his original question on the supplements that are good to take to gain a little mass. I answered this question from a runners stand point and showed my experiences and results as a runner.
> 
> I don't doubt that your bigger and stronger than me and I am well aware that I am not extremely strong and bulky, but I also did put in some other info like about my mile time and vertical. I put my leg press of 800 because I never have maxed on squat due to a tumor I have on my left knee that gets really painful on heavy squats. Oh and no, that's my flat bench.
> 
> He said he wanted to be a runner with more mass, not a power lifter or body builder. That is the point I was coming from which is contradictory to your stand point as it seems (not saying yours is inferior!).
> 
> Haha and sorry my physique didn't appeal to you in my video. Go ahead and PM me your email and I will send you over a better pic.
> 
> Not trying to fight with ya brooo! Just givin my 2 cents




lol, it's cool. Everyone's body responds differently anyway. I've seen some pro bb'ers that use insanely high reps like 30-35+ and some guys like Ronnie Coleman who never change their split- and have literally been doing the same routine for 20 years. It's all about listening to your body and monitoring how it responds. It takes awhile to get that down, but once you do it's probably your greatest asset in terms of gains.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Wow, a lot of really good input since the last time I was able to check this. I'll try to clear a few things up and answer questions/concerns in response to my original questions. I really, really appreciate all the advice so far. 

Uncreative123, you're spot on about gainers and reminded me of the second reason I stopped using them other than not getting the results I anticipated. The majority of them do recommend 4 scoops, which is basically a waste of money. One tub results in maybe 2 weeks worth of servings, if that. Mixing a couple scoops into my protein shakes could help, but the money would be better spent on worthwhile food that's more beneficial. 

As for working my legs with the bench, I have no idea what it's called but here's a very similar bench I found googling _"bench with leg attachment"_ to give you an idea of what I'm getting at. 

Amazon.com: Body Solid GDIB46L Olympic Bench with Leg Developer: Sports & Outdoors

I have no idea if it's all that great of an addition, but I've been getting tangible results ever since using that on top of running. Within a matter of a couple weeks, my legs don't fit into the pants I've been wearing for the past year. 

Wingchunwarrior, I bought oats a week or two ago that I use for making my own protein bars. I've been wanting to add some into my protein shakes, but I've heard and seen so many odd comments on adding oats to post-workout protein shakes. People saying it's counterproductive? Peanut butter is such a common ingredient in DIY protein bar recipes. Does it blend easily? I always use a blender regardless of what I'm mixing because I hate clumpy protein shakes. Does the peanut butter blend or will I drink the shake and get hit in the face with a blob of peanut as I near the end of the shake? 

It's good to hear I don't have to totally ditch running. I could do without it for a while, but the dog is so used to running with me that he won't settle on going for a walk lol. Instead of running 4-5 days, I'll cut back to 2-3 days tops a week. At least, until I can find a way to get my eating on track. 

I'm not looking to be a builder or power lifter, more along the lines of just being in great shape. I've always been on the skinnier side due to a very fast metabolism and not having the time to eat as much as I know I need to. By gaining, I mean I need to pack on enough weight to gain more mass. I'm already on the lean side, it's just a matter of being able to bulk up to build more muscle. It all comes back to what you guys were originally saying, I need to make sure I'm taking in enough to compensate for my routines. 

Again, I really appreciate all the help so far. There's so much to trying to eat right and working out. It's not something you can google and BAM, there's the answer.


----------



## Winspear

^ Yep that's a leg extension for your quads. Unless you lay on your front and do leg curls which I can't see being very comfortable haha. It's usually hard to fit much weight onto the leg extension on benches like that so you'll probably want to do one leg at a time 

Peanut butter doesn't blend easily in my experience. It gets stuck over the blender etc...but leave it on and it'll blend eventually. I think it's a lot less effort to just eat a few spoonfulls of it on it's own


----------



## Guitarmiester

As uncomfortable and awkward as doing leg curls are, I still try to do them. You're right about packing on the weights, it really doesn't have much room to push serious weight. It's still nice though since it provides some extra exercises for my legs. 

I'll have to try adding some peanut butter to a protein shake. Not so sure I could eat it by the spoonful.


----------



## soliloquy

just got these guys:
Dymatize Elite Gourmet Chocolate Peanutbutter- tastes AMAZING!!!! though i cant taste the chocolate in it, but this is AMAZING!

IDS iso-whey Cinnamon-vanilla: it sounds like a weird combo, but this is very refreshing, different, and tastes great too! mixes much better than their chocolate counterpart

dymatize elite mass gainer cookies n cream: haven't tried this yet


----------



## Jason

Uncreative123 said:


> The Intek Evolution stuff is legit, I think you can only get it at Nutrishop though- it's in a Green bottle/white lid. The lime flavor is delicous.




I sell it at my work, How much are you paying for it?


----------



## Uncreative123

Jason said:


> I sell it at my work, How much are you paying for it?



Depends, I was giving guitar lessons to a guy that worked there who would just hook me up with a free bottle each time. I can't remember how much it was last time, I want to say $40 or $45. But at the same time, I only have to pay $45 for a tub of After Glow and I know that stuff is more expensive.


----------



## Jason

Uncreative123 said:


> Depends, I was giving guitar lessons to a guy that worked there who would just hook me up with a free bottle each time. I can't remember how much it was last time, I want to say $40 or $45. But at the same time, I only have to pay $45 for a tub of After Glow and I know that stuff is more expensive.



Awesome. My place is less expensive. If you ever need anything PM me for more info.


----------



## soliloquy

Jason said:


> Awesome. My place is less expensive. If you ever need anything PM me for more info.



what is this product and your website?


----------



## Jason

soliloquy said:


> what is this product and your website?



The product he is talking about is in the WELCOME TO INTEK NUTRITION

my place is Performance Nutrition your source for all your Nutritional & Weight Lifting Supplements

You have to call to order that product tho. Not allowed to be sold online.


----------



## Uncreative123

Jason said:


> Awesome. My place is less expensive. If you ever need anything PM me for more info.




Awesome. One of the reasons I can't get it as often as I'd like is because of how expensive it is. I'll try to hit you up tomorrow...


----------



## Bevo

Guys, i want to mix up a Whey protien drink in the morning and have it after my noon workout and before lunch.

If I keep it cold do you see any problem with that?


----------



## Winspear

Can't see a problem. You'll obviously have to shake it again and it might be a bit stuck round the bottom, though.


----------



## soliloquy

anyone have any experience with Protein Factory?

they seem to be the lowest in terms of price but from their profile, they seem the cleanest protein out there without any fillers in em. you could also make your own stuff with them as well. 
and they seem to save price by giving you stuff in ziplock backs (kinda like any 10 lbs protein cases...) and nothing fancy with their stickers either. 

looks interesting:
Custom Protein, Custom Protein Powder, Whey Protein | Protein Factory


----------



## Origin

I use Gold Standard Whey stuff after running or after particularly strenous bouts of exercises/light lifts, it's like 26 bucks a tub. Nothing insanely loaded with cool shit or high end, but I like it.  It's also the only powder I've ever tried where I didn't wretch from the taste.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Here's a question for anyone who uses creatine... 

Do you ever feel nauseous after downing a serving? I noticed whenever I take creatine I feel like crap for the following hour or two. When I don't bother to take it, I feel perfectly fine. It does not upset my stomache, it's more of a nauseous and want to throw up feeling. My creatine isn't close to expiring, so that's not the issue. Could it be the 33g of sugar? I'm about to throw out the entire tub and pass on creatine. Other than feeling nauseous, I really haven't seen much of an improvement from taking creatine.


----------



## Uncreative123

Guitarmiester said:


> Here's a question for anyone who uses creatine...
> 
> Do you ever feel nauseous after downing a serving? I noticed whenever I take creatine I feel like crap for the following hour or two. When I don't bother to take it, I feel perfectly fine. It does not upset my stomache, it's more of a nauseous and want to throw up feeling. My creatine isn't close to expiring, so that's not the issue. Could it be the 33g of sugar? I'm about to throw out the entire tub and pass on creatine. Other than feeling nauseous, I really haven't seen much of an improvement from taking creatine.




Try a different brand- if the same thing happens, you'll know for sure. Or try creatine monohydrate so you don't have to worry about/consider the sugar as a factor.


----------



## jon66

Uncreative123 said:


> Try a different brand- if the same thing happens, you'll know for sure. Or try creatine monohydrate so you don't have to worry about/consider the sugar as a factor.



+1 on trying plain creatine monohydrate. The 33g of sugar thing kind of threw me, which means you're obviously using some type of commercial creatine blended mix with who-knows-what added. Its likely that there's something else in the mix that's causing you to feel sick and that it's not the creatine itself...


----------



## Guitarmiester

Thanks for the suggestion, guys! I'll look into the creatine monohydrate and dump what I'm using now. I never really took a look at the label until today in an attempt to figure out why I feel like shit after downing the creatine. The sugar content caught me by surprise and seemed odd. I feel perfectly fine when I don't take creatine, but the days I do I always get the same feeling. 

Any recommendations on a smaller tub of creatine monohydrate to try?


----------



## Uncreative123

Guitarmiester said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, guys! I'll look into the creatine monohydrate and dump what I'm using now. I never really took a look at the label until today in an attempt to figure out why I feel like shit after downing the creatine. The sugar content caught me by surprise and seemed odd. I feel perfectly fine when I don't take creatine, but the days I do I always get the same feeling.
> 
> Any recommendations on a smaller tub of creatine monohydrate to try?




Biotest made a decent creatine mono- and it was only like $12. Comes in a small tub, but the serving size is so small it can easily last 4 months. Don't know if they still make it. If they don't any reg. mono should do. Should be a lot cheaper than dat dere cell-tech too.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Thanks! I'll look into that and see what I can find. Do you use it before every workout or once in a while?


----------



## Uncreative123

Bothom said:


> There is no awareness of the general public about the use of the sports supplements. This is the reason that i have seen number of the general people who use the sports supplements without any need.




How do these spam bots keep getting on here? And WHY?


----------



## theo

Does anyone here have any experience with APS mesomorph pre workout supplement?


----------



## soliloquy

argh! i'm hating my life getting in the way of my workouts! 

but what i realized is that before, when i used to work out every day without a break, i wasn't shedding my body fat% by much. it was very slow on the decline. now, i workout hard for a week, and i lose 2% here, 3% there. and i'm not even eating clean like i used to...:s


----------



## Guitarmiester

I recently switched over to ON Gold Standard Whey Isolate and wish I switched sooner. Anyone else using ON protein?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

^ I would love to start. Right now i'm using the Body Fortress protein from Walmart. Any bad things about it i should know???


----------



## Guitarmiester

Do yourself a favor and spend an extra $10 for ON Gold Standard Whey Isolate. I used that Body Fortress stuff for a little while and it's crap. It's cheap as hell for a reason. I stumbled across the Body Fortress stuff when I stopped in a Walmart to pick up some protein bars. I wouldn't recommend it for anyone. 

Once you finish the tub, move on to something else.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Just bought some dymatize elite, hopefully it's better!


----------



## soliloquy

Guitarmiester said:


> I recently switched over to ON Gold Standard Whey Isolate and wish I switched sooner. Anyone else using ON protein?



i'm really craving their 'mocha cappuccino' flavor thats elusive to bb.com. after i get my ass back to 'workout' mode and finish all my protein(out of 25 lbs, i'm down to about 18 lbs of it), i'm thinking of giving protein factory a try, and get a tub or two of ON 100% as well.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Dymatize chocolate fudge is delicious! I'm really digging it. Mixes so well too. I can't believe it's only six dollars more expensive than the stuff at wal-mart. 
I'm really happy i stumbled upon this thread. This site seems to have have endless information!


----------



## Guitarmiester

soliloquy said:


> i'm really craving their 'mocha cappuccino' flavor thats elusive to bb.com. after i get my ass back to 'workout' mode and finish all my protein(out of 25 lbs, i'm down to about 18 lbs of it), i'm thinking of giving protein factory a try, and get a tub or two of ON 100% as well.



I bought Cookie N' Cream. I was hoping for the mint chocolate chip flavor but they didn't have any in stock, so cookies n' cream it was. I'll be sticking with ON Whey Isolate for a while now. Very happy with this stuff. 




AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Dymatize chocolate fudge is delicious! I'm really digging it. Mixes so well too. I can't believe it's only six dollars more expensive than the stuff at wal-mart. I'm really happy i stumbled upon this thread. This site seems to have have endless information!



I never tried Dynamtize products, yet, but you'll be much happier with that over the crappy Body Fortress stuff. There's a lot of really good info in this section of the forum and a lot of really knowledgeable guys who are willing to provide useful insight and help out.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I never tried Dynamtize products, yet, but you'll be much happier with that over the crappy Body Fortress stuff. There's a lot of really good info in this section of the forum and a lot of really knowledgeable guys who are willing to provide useful insight and help out.[/QUOTE]

It is really great IMO. Mixes smooth, kinda tastes like ice cream. More BCAA's than that Body Fortress shit too.  I'm looking forward to buying some Toffee flavored stuff next time.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Noob question:

Aged 16, been lifting since autumn (fall) 2010 aged fourteen, taking no supplements bar whey shake usually 2x daily, eating pretty clean. Training like a powerlifter (current squat approx. bodyweight, current deadlift approx. 1.3x bodyweight, current bench approx. 2/3 bodyweight-yes, light, progressively loading) but eating clean to minimise fat gains.

5'6, 148-150lbs, maybe 12-14% bf. Any additional supplements I should be taking?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Protein, definitely protein.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

What, whey? Already taking that dude, as I said


----------



## Winspear

^ I add some powdered oats to my shakes just to up the cals, but that's not really a supplement haha just extra food. I decided to take some vitamins and did a bit of research, ended up taking Vit C and Vit B-Complex. I didn't want to take too many and these seemed like the most useful to me. Don't feel like you 'should' be taking supps, as long as you are making gains!


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Captain Shoggoth said:


> What, whey? Already taking that dude, as I said


Whoops, missed that part. 

Oats will help, extra calories that aren't in the form of junk is really good. Maybe even creatine? But if you take creatine, be sure you drink lots of water.


----------



## MetalGravy

Just to be sure, is this the "ON Gold Standard" stuff?

Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein by Optimum: Bodybuilding.com - Lowest Prices!


----------



## Guitarmiester

Yup, that's it and that's a really good price for ON products! I spent $27 on the 1lb tub at Vitamin Shoppe.


----------



## Uncreative123

ON is overrated. I'm finally making the switch back to Metabolic Drive low-carb. I wish I could see it included in this same study, but I'm banking that I'm not going from bad to worse as the Biotest stuff is usually legit (although incredibly overpriced):

Protein Drinks: What's in them? Consumer Reports


ON is the least bad out of the 10, but for the love of GOD, nobody should be using EAS protein.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

Uncreative123 said:


> but for the love of GOD, nobody should be using EAS protein.


 
that explains the huge lump on my skull


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

^   

I just mixed my protein shake with ice cream...oh my god.


----------



## soliloquy

i tried the optimum nutritions (or was it dymatize?) mint chocolate yesterday. tastes pretty good, but it does have real chocolate pieces which dont mix too well. so on the bottom of the cup may lie the best part: REAL CHOCOLATE which is stuck on the bottom 



MetalGravy said:


> Just to be sure, is this the "ON Gold Standard" stuff?
> 
> Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein by Optimum: Bodybuilding.com - Lowest Prices!



try their 'Mocha Cappuccino'

also, for anyone wanting to order stuff from bodybuilding, you may wanna use their 'price match' option and use this website:
Gold Standard 100% Whey Protein by Optimum: Bodybuilding.com - Lowest Prices!

last time i ordered from bodybuilding, i got 280 dollars worth of stuff after price match. however, if i just ordered directly from bb.com, then i'd be paying about 360 before shipping. 






and anyone have any review on these guys?
Protein Factory High Quality Proteins and Custom Formulas

you can make your own flavored stuff or nutritional stuff with whatever vitamins and other stuff you want from these guys. they seem cheap and their nutrition charts seem impressive.


----------



## Aevolve

Uncreative123 said:


> ON is overrated. I'm finally making the switch back to Metabolic Drive low-carb. I wish I could see it included in this same study, but I'm banking that I'm not going from bad to worse as the Biotest stuff is usually legit (although incredibly overpriced):
> 
> Protein Drinks: What's in them? Consumer Reports
> 
> 
> ON is the least bad out of the 10, but for the love of GOD, nobody should be using EAS protein.



Fuck dude.. I've been using nothing but EAS for a while.

Why is it endorsed by Body for Life with that kind of shit in it?


----------



## Uncreative123

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Fuck dude.. I've been using nothing but EAS for a while.
> 
> Why is it endorsed by Body for Life with that kind of shit in it?




It's all about money. It's really no different than food- most of the popular stuff is shit and the good stuff is hard to come by and twice the price. 

I got my MD from Biotest yesterday. They must have improved the formula because it tastes 10x better than I remember. I recently switched to mixing my protein drinks with water instead of milk- with ON it tasted like absolute shit. With MB it tastes amazing somehow. And it's loaded with like 20+g BCAAs. That in conjunction with the MAG-10/Anaconda protocol, I'm getting a stupid amount of BCAAs everyday.


----------



## soliloquy

Uncreative123 said:


> It's all about money. It's really no different than food- most of the popular stuff is shit and the good stuff is hard to come by and twice the price.
> 
> I got my MD from Biotest yesterday. They must have improved the formula because it tastes 10x better than I remember. I recently switched to mixing my protein drinks with water instead of milk- with ON it tasted like absolute shit. With MB it tastes amazing somehow. And it's loaded with like 20+g BCAAs. That in conjunction with the MAG-10/Anaconda protocol, I'm getting a stupid amount of BCAAs everyday.



care to explain as to whats so bad about EAS?
not that i take anything from the company, but just curious :S


----------



## USMarine75

I prefer this...







Besides, I get enough arsenic supplements from the wife in my coffee...


----------



## TRENCHLORD

USMarine75 said:


> Besides, I get enough arsenic supplements from the wife in my coffee...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L19GOqAeT6Q&feature=related


----------



## Uncreative123

soliloquy said:


> care to explain as to whats so bad about EAS?
> not that i take anything from the company, but just curious :S




I posted the study above. The amount of Arsenic and Cadmium in EAS exceeds acceptable levels according to the FDA. Muscle Milk had both of those as well as Mercury and Lead.

Cadmium builds up in the kidneys and is very hard to break down. It takes something like 20 years just to get rid of half the amount in your body. 

These metals building up can cause a lot of problems and lead to elevated estrogen levels. I'm actually going to be getting some of the Polq. metal detox and HCL supps to get rid of the shit that's been building up. I probably should have a biosig done.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Care to share about those? ^^


----------



## Guitarmiester

Uncreative123 said:


> I got my MD from Biotest yesterday. They must have improved the formula because it tastes 10x better than I remember. I recently switched to mixing my protein drinks with water instead of milk- with ON it tasted like absolute shit. With MB it tastes amazing somehow. And it's loaded with like 20+g BCAAs. That in conjunction with the MAG-10/Anaconda protocol, I'm getting a stupid amount of BCAAs everyday.



Why'd you switch to water? Doesn't milk help the body absorb vitamins and shit? I already pee a lot the days I have protein shakes. I'd assume mixing with water would make the body release more of what you're taking in, rather than actually absorbing.


----------



## soliloquy

Guitarmiester said:


> Why'd you switch to water? Doesn't milk help the body absorb vitamins and shit? I already pee a lot the days I have protein shakes. I'd assume mixing with water would make the body release more of what you're taking in, rather than actually absorbing.



yes and no.
not all milk is made the same. not sure what the milk is like where you live, but up in canada, you have 2 basic milk types.
type one is made by neilson. they make the regular skim, 1, 2, 3.25 percent milk. 
type two is made by natrel. they make the skim, 1, 2, 3.25 milk PLUS a bajjilion vitamins and minerals. its like having multivitamins with milk. 

type two will help you absorb more.
type one wont really help you do much other than give you more protein, more calories, more fat (unless its skim).
using water helps you cut down on unwanted fat and calories 

also, it doesn't matter what you eat or drink, your food will go through your stomach, then to your long and small intestines where its being absorbed. so if you drink milk or water with protein, it'll have the same effect. you just pee out water. but if you drink milk, you will pee out the water that is in milk the same way.


----------



## Guitarmiester

Makes sense. It was probably one of those things I've heard along the way that came from someone who talked as if he had a clue. 

I drink whole milk for the additional calories and fat since I've always been more on the skinny/lean side. Any extra source of calories is a plus for me.


----------



## Uncreative123

awesome double post. First one


----------



## Uncreative123

Guitarmiester said:


> Why'd you switch to water?




Hardcore diet right now. Too many carbs. I'm netting less than 50g carbs on some days. Working really well.








AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Care to share about those? ^^




Are you talking about the HCL and CDG?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Yes i am. lol


----------



## soliloquy

any recommendations of gaspari's myofusion?


----------



## Uncreative123

soliloquy said:


> any recommendations of gaspari's myofusion?




Doesn't look terrible.


Regarding HCL you can just read about it here:

Maximize Your Progress with Hydrochloric Acid


There's a little salesmanship going on there...Some of his supps are overpriced and you can get the generics cheaper elsewhere, but what they do is fairly consistent across the board and Polq knows his shit. 

I need that metallic detox asap.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Does anyone here use pre-workouts? I recently got a sample of Unleash! V3 and it's great. Felt like a friggin' beast in the gym.

Right now I'm just chugging down protein shakes and nothing else. &#8364;55 for 4,5kg from a Dutch manufacturer, great stuff and tastes so much better than the "best whey you'll have ever tasted!" cassein whey rubbish I once sampled from another company.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I've used N.O. Xplode once. It was insane. I felt like a god.


----------



## MTech

Uncreative123 said:


> It's all about money. It's really no different than food- most of the popular stuff is shit and the good stuff is hard to come by and twice the price.


Exactly which leads me to my answer on the next one..


UnderTheSign said:


> Does anyone here use pre-workouts? I recently got a sample of Unleash! V3 and it's great. Felt like a friggin' beast in the gym.


I swear by Olympus Labs Thriller Pre-Workout & Iso-Fire Protein.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Starting to have peanut butter and oats as well now, gonna buy some fish oil and multivitamins and that will do nicely.



AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Whoops, missed that part.
> 
> Oats will help, extra calories that aren't in the form of junk is really good. Maybe even creatine? But if you take creatine, be sure you drink lots of water.



I drink tons, my pee looks like water  so I'll look into creatine.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I drink 160 ounces of water a day. During the loading phase of my creatine i get chapped lips. It dehydrates you, a lot.


----------



## MetalGravy

Have any of the vegetarians in the room tried this?

Pea Protein Isolate from MyoPure


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Just received a 5lb Tub of On Goldstandard Vanilla ice cream. So good


----------



## Guitarmiester

MetalGravy said:


> Have any of the vegetarians in the room tried this?
> 
> Pea Protein Isolate from MyoPure



I haven't tried that brand, but have tried one fairly similar that was free of lactose and gluten. It was the chalkiest-tasting protein shake I've ever had.


----------



## Aevolve

Anyone had any experience with these?







I ask because they're pretty easy to get a hold of where I live and pack a pretty good amount of protein.

How do they measure up?


----------



## Uncreative123

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Anyone had any experience with these?
> 
> 
> 
> I ask because they're pretty easy to get a hold of where I live and pack a pretty good amount of protein.
> 
> How do they measure up?




They're candy bars with protein.


----------



## soliloquy

out of all the protein bars i've tried, this guy:





and a chocolate bar by Luna are prolly the best. they dont taste chemically, nor are they too tough to chew, and they taste great!




also, anyone have any recommendations for pre-workout drinks that are not caffeine based? i'm trying to go for some more natural stuff...or pretty much anything to keep me from giving up 75% though my workouts


----------



## Winspear

soliloquy said:


> giving up 75% though my workouts



Is your lifestyle good? In my experience lack of drive in the gym is usually due to lack of sleep, bad diet etc. 
I find as long as I stay healthy, drinking plenty of water throughout does the job just fine! In my opinion if you need some kind of kick to do your workout then you are in need of a rest anyway


----------



## Uncreative123

soliloquy said:


> also, anyone have any recommendations for pre-workout drinks that are not caffeine based? i'm trying to go for some more natural stuff...or pretty much anything to keep me from giving up 75% though my workouts




Caffeine is a lot more natural than what you're going to find in any pre-workout supp. Your best bet would be to have black coffee and/or green tea (supp). If you don't like coffee, you can take a generic caffeine supp or aspirin that has caffeine in it.
Coq10 can raise energy levels over a period of time. Some people report an initial boost on the first day of supplementing and then not noticing it thereafter (as it makes a gradual change in energy levels). If you're a person who takes afternoon naps, this may be something to look into.


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I've always done plain black coffee. Of coarse if you drink it everyday all day it won't have much effect,
but if one can use it and not abuse it then it's great as a preworkout boost/overdrive. 
(I like the 100% columbian).


----------



## Winspear

I should mention, I'm not against preworkouts or anything  Just I think they should be used as a performance boost, not as a fix. If you feel like stopping before the end of your workout, I'd say something else is the problem. Perhaps you are overtraining?


----------



## USMarine75

^^^ Stay away from protein candybars that have 400+ Calories and over 100 from fat. Might as well wash that down with a 32 oz Gatorade with 200 more calories and 64g of sugar.


----------



## soliloquy

EtherealEntity said:


> Is your lifestyle good? In my experience lack of drive in the gym is usually due to lack of sleep, bad diet etc.
> I find as long as I stay healthy, drinking plenty of water throughout does the job just fine! In my opinion if you need some kind of kick to do your workout then you are in need of a rest anyway



well, my training regiment is usually short (30-50 minutes) and it consists of mainly heavy lifting where i am sweating after the second or third set (out of usually 6ish per exercise). but when it comes to me throwing a few different muscle groups together that require a LOT of energy like shoulders and back, or legs, my energy depelts rather fast. i think thats mainly because i incorporate cardio with weight lifting. 

for example, i workout in my basement, so my space and weights are a bit limited. however, when i'm working out my legs, some of the things that i use are alternating jumping lunges with weights. jumping on stools (about 3-4 feet high) with weights backwards and forwards. stairs with weights and bunch of other stuff that requires use of several different muscle groups all at once. 

i'm usually fine with my splits that include chest+tri and arms and shoulder+back(but last few sets i'm dying or i give up), but when it comes to legs+abs, i usually stop well before i've given much into it


and when i said 'natural' i meant stuff like gensink and other herbal stuff. caffeine usually gives me the runs


----------



## Aevolve

USMarine75 said:


> ^^^ Stay away from protein candybars that have 400+ Calories and over 100 from fat. Might as well wash that down with a 32 oz Gatorade with 200 more calories and 64g of sugar.



Just had a lot of protein and were easy to get a hold of. I'll try and find an affordable nutrition place around here. Thanks 


Additionally, I've had some friends who were using this, any comments?







To my knowledge, ON tends to make some pretty decent stuff.


----------



## Aevolve

Also, anyone have an opinion on this stuff as well as the Serious Mass?







OR


----------



## soliloquy

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Also, anyone have an opinion on this stuff as well as the Serious Mass?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OR




try bodybuilding.com

they usually have reviews for most sport supplement related stuff


----------



## Uncreative123

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Just had a lot of protein and were easy to get a hold of. I'll try and find an affordable nutrition place around here. Thanks
> 
> 
> Additionally, I've had some friends who were using this, any comments?
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge, ON tends to make some pretty decent stuff.




lol, 1,250 calories. If you're at that much of a caloric deficit where you need to supplement at least 1250 cal, then you have WAY bigger problems. Shit like that is such a waste of money and banks on people not understanding the label. The serving size is always like 12 scoops in three gallons of milk/water. Nobody is going to sit around for two hours chugging a protein drink- and certainly not someone who needs to supplement 1250 calories. When you average out the serving/scoops it's not much different from other protein, sans a few more carbs. I can't tell you how many bean-poles I've seen go on this stuff and have no results because it 'makes them feel full' and then they eat less than they were already eating.

If you're that hard up for mass, you're better off eating a whole pizza. At least then you'll stand a chance of hitting the cal. you need. 




soliloquy said:


> try bodybuilding.com
> 
> they usually have reviews for most sport supplement related stuff





...written by 16-year-old kids whose knowledge is founded in bro-science. Look at their two top advertisers: BSN & ON. Do you know how many of those reviews are propagated by those companies? And I'm talking about the ones that are by 'real people'. You'll be hard-pressed to find a bad review as they're buried or deleted. Deluca doesn't give a fuck about anything but the bottom-line: money. 

Back when BSN was a much smaller company their products were way better. The NO Xplode of today pales in comparison to that of 8 years ago. I couldn't stop climbing the walls with that first version of NO Xplode that I ever had (the old red tub, yellow lid, stupid sparkly label) compared to each time they've changed the formula it seems to get weaker and weaker and shittier tasting. Has nothing to do with caffeine tolerance, has everything to do with false-advertising/not listing ingredients properly/making money. There was a substantial lawsuit against BSN a few years ago because of this. They're really not a respectable company at all now. Unfortunately this seems to be the way in the supplement industry once you 'make it big'.


----------



## Winspear

^ Nailed it. 
The labels on those things make no sense, and they are so expensive. 

Want more cals? How about a basic protein shake - pint of full fat milk, 50g of cheap whey and 50g of cheap powdered oats.


----------



## USMarine75

soliloquy said:


> for example, i workout in my basement, so my space and weights are a bit limited.


 
Off topic, but I just wanted to say the best purchase I ever made was the Bowflex SelectTech 1090 10-90 lbs adjustable dumbells.

Bowflex® SelectTech® 1090 Dumbbells

They've gone up in price, but I'm sure you can find them used. And I had a problem with one of the dials one time and customer service overnighted me a replacement set for free. Can't say enough about these things. If I could only have one piece of workout equip this would be it... especially if you have limited space. Buy a cheap adjustable bench and bam you're all set!

(Anywho, just thought I'd share.... sorry for the derail)


----------



## soliloquy

USMarine75 said:


> Off topic, but I just wanted to say the best purchase I ever made was the Bowflex SelectTech 1090 10-90 lbs adjustable dumbells.
> 
> Bowflex® SelectTech® 1090 Dumbbells
> 
> They've gone up in price, but I'm sure you can find them used. And I had a problem with one of the dials one time and customer service overnighted me a replacement set for free. Can't say enough about these things. If I could only have one piece of workout equip this would be it... especially if you have limited space. Buy a cheap adjustable bench and bam you're all set!
> 
> (Anywho, just thought I'd share.... sorry for the derail)



no no, i got weights in the basement that go as lil as 2.5 lbs, and as high as 280 lbs. so thats not the problem. the problem is when it comes to leg workouts. i dont have a squat rack, so i make due with doing alternative jumping lunges and and what not


----------



## UnderTheSign

I'm just wondering what your routine looks like if you do 6 sets of everything.


----------



## soliloquy

UnderTheSign said:


> I'm just wondering what your routine looks like if you do 6 sets of everything.



depends
chest: flat dumbbell press
chest: flat dumbbell fly
chest: incline dumbbell press (usually 4 or 5)
chest: incline dumbbell fly (usually 3 or 4)
burpees: interval training for 3 minutes each, stretched for 3 sets with 3 minute break in between

legs:weighted jumping alternative lunges
legs: barbell sumo or barbell romanian dead lifts
calves: 3 faces, each having 3-4 sets
hamstrings: dont know what they are called, but lying flat on your chest and curling your legs up with weights
weighted jumping on 3 foot high stool
weighted stepping on 3 foot high school front and back

shoulder: front raises
shoulder: side raises
shoulder: military
shoulder: dont know what its called, but bent over side raises
shoulder: dont know what its called, but lying on your side with arm at 90 degree and sitting on your side, lock your elbow, move your arm so its right above you
shoulder: cool down, dont know what its called, but lying flat on the ground, arm extended parallel to you, elbow bent and locked at 90 degrees, and with a light weight, bring the arm to so it touches the other side and repeat 

back: pull ups
back: close and wide grip front lat pull down
back: alternating renegade row
back: one arm dumbbell row
back: dont know what its called, but put your back against a pole, with light weights in each hand, extend your arms as far back as they can go, hold for 5 seconds, and repeat 
back: bridge. hold for a 45 sec to 1.5 mins, rest for 30 second (i know, its abs, but supports the lower back as well. helps me with my fucked up back)

arms: incline dumbbell curl (same thing as preacher curl. completely isolates biceps)
arms: concentration curls
arms: hammer curls
arms: dont know what they are called, but lock your elbows at 90, and keep bringing the weights to your chest while you are standing
wrists: reverse curls
wrists: forward curls
wrists: half dumbbell twist while lying down on your side
*(i usually dont work out my upper wrist(attached to my palm) during winter due to my joints hurting severely)

abs: hanging leg raises
abs: hanging knee raises
abs: v-sit up
abs: V-situp with dumbbell at your feet
abs: dumbbell side bend



i'm sure i'm missing something. so i try to achieve 6 sets for all, but depending on my energy level, the latter part of my work outs turn into 4 sets, and then some workouts are just abandoned.

and recently i started playing squash, so 3 days a week i'm doing that for 40 minutes to an hour 10


----------



## soliloquy

Uncreative123 said:


> ...written by 16-year-old kids whose knowledge is founded in bro-science. Look at their two top advertisers: BSN & ON. Do you know how many of those reviews are propagated by those companies? And I'm talking about the ones that are by 'real people'. You'll be hard-pressed to find a bad review as they're buried or deleted. Deluca doesn't give a fuck about anything but the bottom-line: money.
> 
> Back when BSN was a much smaller company their products were way better. The NO Xplode of today pales in comparison to that of 8 years ago. I couldn't stop climbing the walls with that first version of NO Xplode that I ever had (the old red tub, yellow lid, stupid sparkly label) compared to each time they've changed the formula it seems to get weaker and weaker and shittier tasting. Has nothing to do with caffeine tolerance, has everything to do with false-advertising/not listing ingredients properly/making money. There was a substantial lawsuit against BSN a few years ago because of this. They're really not a respectable company at all now. Unfortunately this seems to be the way in the supplement industry once you 'make it big'.





well, bodybuilding does carry a LARGE variety of ON competition which also gets rave reviews. actually, dymatize and gaspari are both competitors for ON, and they get better reviews than ON often times. just ON gets the most reviews as they are the most popular as they can even be found at walmart while other brands have a hard time being found at walmart.


----------



## Aevolve

EtherealEntity said:


> Want more cals? How about a basic protein shake - pint of full fat milk, 50g of cheap whey and 50g of cheap powdered oats.



Is all whey created equal?


----------



## MTech

Uncreative123 said:


> Back when BSN was a much smaller company their products were way better. The NO Xplode of today pales in comparison to that of 8 years ago. I couldn't stop climbing the walls with that first version of NO Xplode that I ever had (the old red tub, yellow lid, stupid sparkly label) compared to each time they've changed the formula it seems to get weaker and weaker and shittier tasting. Has nothing to do with caffeine tolerance, has everything to do with false-advertising/not listing ingredients properly/making money. There was a substantial lawsuit against BSN a few years ago because of this. They're really not a respectable company at all now. Unfortunately this seems to be the way in the supplement industry once you 'make it big'.


Keep in mind that it's also because they keep banning ingredients and it wasn't until this year that they started really heavily testing and watching everything to make sure what is on the label is actually what is in it. They now make you do a big test once a year and then a smaller one every time you make a batch. They're also pushing the ban on 1.3 dimethyl which is the main stimulant in most of the pre's on the market. People who are taking these are failing drug tests as it's showing up they're using Methamphetamines. As for protein it's because the price of Whey is skyrocketing especially Isolate which is 3x the price of concentrate or mass building protein mixes which are really cheap. There's a lot of people claiming to be selling an Isolate but it's actually Whey Concentrate or that mixed with a different (Non-Whey) Isolate. The raw pricing for Whey Isolate is fixed whether you buy 10,000lb's or 100,000lb's so knowing that and looking at what certain brands claim to have per serving vs their cost is a dead giveaway it's not what it claims to be. This is also why you're seeing a lot of companies trying to spin mass hype around something "new" that isn't whey and it's all because that "new" protein is cheap so they can make big profits. This is also why a lot of the big name Mr. Olympia's and Trainers recommend eating 6 meals a day (1 every 2-3hours) rather than taking all kinds of shakes etc. The only protein shake a lot of these guys are recommending to take is a larger one before you go to bed to keep your system going while you sleep.


----------



## Uncreative123

MTech said:


> Keep in mind that it's also because they keep banning ingredients and it wasn't until this year that they started really heavily testing and watching everything to make sure what is on the label is actually what is in it. They now make you do a big test once a year and then a smaller one every time you make a batch. They're also pushing the ban on 1.3 dimethyl which is the main stimulant in most of the pre's on the market. People who are taking these are failing drug tests as it's showing up they're using Methamphetamines.




I know. That wasn't the case with BSN when they were sued. It was because of Cell-Mass (not NO Xplode) and they actually had to improve their formula because there were only trace amounts of creatine in it. 

Methylhexanamine is not the main stimulant in most pre-workout supps. In fact, the only one I know off-hand that has it is Jack3d. I'm sure there are others, but none of any notoriety. I'm currently taking a supplement with Methylhexanamine, but it's not a pre-workout supplement. 
WADA lists it as a banned substance, but I sincerely doubt it will go anywhere beyond that, much less, ever be made illegal, especially since Ephedrine is legal and this has less effect on the CNS than Ephedrine and Amphetamine. 
"In September of 2011, research published by University of Memphis' Department of Health and Sport Sciences showed that Methylhexanamine's effects could not be explained by circulating NE and EPI. ; regarding heart rate and BP the study stated (at 75 mg DMAA, peak changes seen at one hour) "acute ingestion of 1,3-dimethylamylamine alone and in combination with caffeine results in an increase in SBP, DBP, and RPP without an increase in HR". "[21]
A study of 25 healthy men taking the DMAA-containing, pre-workout sports supplement, Jack3D, found that DMAA does not change resting heart rate, blood pressure or affect liver and kidney function when used at recommended dosage levels.[22] According to an additional four studies published in the fall of 2011, DMAA did not seem to cause any negative effects to the blood, blood pressure or heart rate when taken by test subjects for a short period.[23]"




No elevated heart-rate or raised BP, plus no effect on liver and kidney function. I'm honestly surprised it's banned at any level. I don't know the ins-and-outs of drug-testing, but I'm sure it's only banned because it has a *similar* structure to methamphetamine, but they have no way of determining anything more specific than that.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

I'm gonna sound like a shill saying this, but it's just an honest recommendation.

UK/European lifters I'd recommend using or at least checking out myprotein.com for supps and clothing/accessiories, all their stuff is their own brand but it's pretty damn good quality and consequently really good value (their True Whey isolate/concentrate blend tastes awesome and has 76g protein per 100g powder, their Impact Whey concentrate is stupid cheap (£12.99 for 1kg unflavoured and £1.50 more flavoured) and their powdered oats are only £2.39 for 1kg).


----------



## MTech

Uncreative123 said:


> I know. That wasn't the case with BSN when they were sued. It was because of Cell-Mass (not NO Xplode) and they actually had to improve their formula because there were only trace amounts of creatine in it.
> 
> Methylhexanamine is not the main stimulant in most pre-workout supps. In fact, the only one I know off-hand that has it is Jack3d. I'm sure there are others, but none of any notoriety. I'm currently taking a supplement with Methylhexanamine, but it's not a pre-workout supplement.
> WADA lists it as a banned substance, but I sincerely doubt it will go anywhere beyond that, much less, ever be made illegal, especially since Ephedrine is legal and this has less effect on the CNS than Ephedrine and Amphetamine.
> No elevated heart-rate or raised BP, plus no effect on liver and kidney function. I'm honestly surprised it's banned at any level. I don't know the ins-and-outs of drug-testing, but I'm sure it's only banned because it has a *similar* structure to methamphetamine, but they have no way of determining anything more specific than that.



I never said that's what happened with BSN. I don't work at GNC but I'm just telling you what a couple of my friends were told from Corporate there as they said the company was told Dimeth is going to be pulled off the shelves it's only a matter of time. My one friend in particular said when he took a drug test for his work legal level was something like .009 and he got a .3 something swore he's not on drugs (he isn't) showed them the pre's he takes (C4 IIRC) and they said it's only something like 1 hydrocarbon off of meth's. They actually got a letter in January he said that it was going to happen before 1/16/2012 but it's being fought out in court right now. They said many of them Jack3d being the main one use it. I know many of the companies have had products being pulled for having other things in them such as PH's for example Purus Labs etc.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Off topic from you guys^^^ But i'd just like to say i can't tell much of a difference between Dymatize and ON, especially for the price hike.


----------



## MTech

^ Just reading the ingredients I wouldn't take either...and they pretty much have the same thing listed as ingredients so I'm wondering the reason you can't tell a difference is they're essentially the same thing with a different bottle/label. It's already been stated before that goes on a lot and some brands you're literally paying for a name.


----------



## soliloquy

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Off topic from you guys^^^ But i'd just like to say i can't tell much of a difference between Dymatize and ON, especially for the price hike.



yeah, i dont understand why dymatize recently did a price hike by 10-15 dollars for their iso-100 stuff


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

MTech said:


> ^ Just reading the ingredients I wouldn't take either...and they pretty much have the same thing listed as ingredients so I'm wondering the reason you can't tell a difference is they're essentially the same thing with a different bottle/label. It's already been stated before that goes on a lot and some brands you're literally paying for a name.



Why wouldn't you take either??


----------



## MTech

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Why wouldn't you take either??


Not knocking either of the products because everybody takes supplements for different reasons/results so keep that in mind, and I know how serious & sensitive some people are on here let alone take things the wrong way. I'll try to sum it up but make it quick as possible. 
I'm not trying to be HUGE by any means but I started lifting pretty extensively again over the last year and a half just to get in better shape and have a positive outlet for stress etc. The person I have train me isn't some trainer from the gym, it's somebody I've been friends with most of my life and who has his own company which makes supplements and competes in bodybuilding. He is very strict on his diet, never has had alcohol, eats 7 meals a day, avoids all dairy/milk and anything soy. He walks around off season at 6'2 310lbs and still has a 6 pack, and the last competition he did stage weight was 260 something and he had 23" bi's, he's a monster. He's been serious on the sport for years and took time off so he had to re-qualify for his pro card and is doing Nationals coming up in a few months. Anyway he gets help from several big names but the main one is one of the guys who trains Jay/Phil etc who is always in mags etc. 

So with that in mind I do what he recommends as well as his trainers. He personally is not a fan of concentrates and is firmly behind Whey Isolate as long as it's filtered the right way. He doesn't do soy because of what it does to your estrogen levels. So those 2 things right there are the 1st thing I noticed reading the actual ingredients in both products, a blend of various proteins (which notice it doesn't tell you how much of each) and Soy is listed right in there. Many manufacturing facilities will state there can be a trace as they make more than just 1 product, but it's actually listed right in the ingredients I saw.


Uncreative123 seems to get in depth I see so he may be able to shed some pro con out of this..and I have had a few friends really into the sport that I swear live online looking up the latest greatest trend that disagree with what he tells me, (for instance I have friends who think it's a waste taking L-Glutamine) I just look at it like if this is what he thinks and he looks like that, and this is what he's being told by a guy who trains Jay & Phil than obviously they know something and either way they're a hell of a lot bigger than me and most of us out there


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

MTech said:


> Not knocking either of the products because everybody takes supplements for different reasons/results so keep that in mind, and I know how serious & sensitive some people are on here let alone take things the wrong way. I'll try to sum it up but make it quick as possible.
> I'm not trying to be HUGE by any means but I started lifting pretty extensively again over the last year and a half just to get in better shape and have a positive outlet for stress etc. The person I have train me isn't some trainer from the gym, it's somebody I've been friends with most of my life and who has his own company which makes supplements and competes in bodybuilding. He is very strict on his diet, never has had alcohol, eats 7 meals a day, avoids all dairy/milk and anything soy. He walks around off season at 6'2 310lbs and still has a 6 pack, and the last competition he did stage weight was 260 something and he had 23" bi's, he's a monster. He's been serious on the sport for years and took time off so he had to re-qualify for his pro card and is doing Nationals coming up in a few months. Anyway he gets help from several big names but the main one is one of the guys who trains Jay/Phil etc who is always in mags etc.
> 
> So with that in mind I do what he recommends as well as his trainers. He personally is not a fan of concentrates and is firmly behind Whey Isolate as long as it's filtered the right way. He doesn't do soy because of what it does to your estrogen levels. So those 2 things right there are the 1st thing I noticed reading the actual ingredients in both products, a blend of various proteins (which notice it doesn't tell you how much of each) and Soy is listed right in there. Many manufacturing facilities will state there can be a trace as they make more than just 1 product, but it's actually listed right in the ingredients I saw.
> 
> 
> Uncreative123 seems to get in depth I see so he may be able to shed some pro con out of this..and I have had a few friends really into the sport that I swear live online looking up the latest greatest trend that disagree with what he tells me, (for instance I have friends who think it's a waste taking L-Glutamine) I just look at it like if this is what he thinks and he looks like that, and this is what he's being told by a guy who trains Jay & Phil than obviously they know something and either way they're a hell of a lot bigger than me and most of us out there



23" bis? If im not wrong your tricep makes up 2/3 of your upper arm and your biceps 1/3 so does make his arms 69" in size?


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

I'm pretty sure that measurement is just the circumference of the upper arm


----------



## Wingchunwarrior

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I'm pretty sure that measurement is just the circumference of the upper arm


 
Yeah, nah I was half kidding. I knew what he meant, just being a dick


----------



## MTech

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I'm pretty sure that measurement is just the circumference of the upper arm






Wingchunwarrior said:


> Yeah, nah I was half kidding. I knew what he meant, just being a dick



I was like for the love of god I can't say anything without somebody trying to turn it into an argument


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Jesus Christ, that vein.


----------



## soliloquy

@MTech: just curious as to what supplements are these?

i mean, looking around, it seems every protein i look into has soy
that doesn't really bother me much in comparison to sodium and cholesterol they all seem to have :s


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

So i keep telling my dad i think it would be helpful for him to take some whey protein, or some sort of supplement. I figured you guys would be able to help me with this. He is 51, and not fat at all, and he lifts 3-4 days a week. He has a very lean diet. Usually coffee and nicotine for break fast, and an apple and sandwich for lunch.  With a pretty decent size dinner. Do you guys think that whey protein would help him? He says he can tell that he's losing strength, and probably has lost 5 pounds this year. It's really taking a toll on his self esteem, he's use to feeling like superman


----------



## Winspear

It would help reduce weight loss but wont necessarily result in weight gain. It's important to pay attention to calorie thresholds - unless he goes over his maintenance calories he's not going to build. Whey will help reach that but so would just eating more food.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

He's just concerned with maintaining what he has, strength and size. He's not really big, just strong. Well in my opinion at least, for being 51 benching i think 325 is decent.


----------



## MTech

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Jesus Christ, that vein.


I swear there's a snake in his arm 



soliloquy said:


> @MTech: just curious as to what supplements are these?
> 
> i mean, looking around, it seems every protein i look into has soy
> that doesn't really bother me much in comparison to sodium and cholesterol they all seem to have :s


It's not one you'd of heard of as he doesn't have it in GNC etc. The problem with this business and things not being monitored is you have to build up so big before you can get into those companies. If you try to put your product in when you are small, and your product is good, they will just copy it and put it out themselves. With that being said when he's out and I have to buy it at a chain store he highly recommends Isopure as being the best thing you can buy in chain shops so I usually grab a bucket of that n the Dutch Chocolate when possible. With Soy almost all companies will have a trace as they put warnings on the bottles because they are blended in the same facilities as other products are made. I was just surprised when I read the label of the one company mentioned that soy was literally on the main ingredient list.I think your sodium/Cholestrol issues are only in the couple you mentioned. You had me wondering about the sodium and cholestrol in his now and I went to grab the container only to see this...


----------



## MetalGravy

Holy shit--that's the Isopure, or your friend's stuff?


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

I think it's his friends stuff.


----------



## soliloquy

Mtech: even isopure has soy in their main ingredients:
Nature's Best Zero Carb Isopure at Bodybuilding.com: Lowest Prices for Zero Carb Isopure


----------



## MTech

MetalGravy said:


> Holy shit--that's the Isopure, or your friend's stuff?


What? That's his, the sugar is from the real cocoa. 


soliloquy said:


> Mtech: even isopure has soy in their main ingredients:
> Nature's Best Zero Carb Isopure at Bodybuilding.com: Lowest Prices for Zero Carb Isopure


Soy Lecithin is all the way at the very end of all that I see, which looking it up says that's used to help with cocoa in powders and it actually can lower bad cholesterol and raise the good kind. The Dymatize straight out says "Soybean Oil" as well as having Milk/Casein protein which caught my eye. The ON doesn't say soy in it and doesn't have casein so with what I get told that would be the one I would take of the 2. I honestly doubt it's that big of a deal as it's not like it's Soy Protein, but it caught my eye.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

That is damn high quality stuff.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

So a person at school today called me a "fucking idiot" for using whey protein and said that "all it does it make you fat." He swears by Gaspari Myofusion and says that protein blends and way (whey  ) better. Does his statement hold any truth?


----------



## Aevolve

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> So a person at school today called me a "fucking idiot" for using whey protein and said that "all it does it make you fat." He swears by Gaspari Myofusion and says that protein blends and way (whey  ) better. Does his statement hold any truth?



Lol no.

We're in high school bro, and every kid who signs up for weight training thinks he's hot shit and knows the truth about supplements and nutrition. Most of them think that the most expensive shit = the best, and wear shin-high Nike socks.


There is nothing wrong with whey. Lift and use it, and let's see how he stacks up compared to you after a month or two.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Well, he's a year older than me and i'm much bigger and stronger. Probably genetics though


----------



## soliloquy

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> So a person at school today called me a "fucking idiot" for using whey protein and said that "all it does it make you fat." He swears by Gaspari Myofusion and says that protein blends and way (whey  ) better. Does his statement hold any truth?



well...nothing wrong with whey protein, or isolate, or anything...however, with protein blends, you have to be careful and read if they have soy protein. 

its not THAT common, but some brands do offer whey mixed with casien, mixed with isolate, mixed with soy protein. 

whats wrong with soy? its a 50/50 where some say it helps with estrogen in your body, which leads to more stored fat, which leads to man-boobs. others say that that isn't true. i say 'fuck it, i'm not taking the risk'. 

but for the most part, he is wrong (your buddy). also, tell him that gaspari is one of the higher calorie protein out there. when ON 100% whey and dymatize iso-100 offer 200-220 calories for 50 grams of protein, gaspari offers 300-330 calories for the same amount of protein. as such, higher calories help you put on weight as well....


----------



## Aevolve

MTech said:


>



Could I get a brand name on this stuff? I'd like to pick some up judging from that!


----------



## TRENCHLORD

I think that's just GNCs version of Isopure (pro performance).
Could be wrong though.


----------



## Aevolve

Might just grab some ON 100% anyway. Seems to be tried-and-true.


----------



## Guitarmiester

I've had great results switching to ON 100% whey isolate. It also tastes really good and mixes well.


----------



## SenorDingDong

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> Just had a lot of protein and were easy to get a hold of. I'll try and find an affordable nutrition place around here. Thanks
> 
> 
> Additionally, I've had some friends who were using this, any comments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To my knowledge, ON tends to make some pretty decent stuff.



Trying to mix this is like trying to mix cement. 

I bought it once, then returned it (I'm an ectomporh and I have trouble gaining weight, so I've tried tons of gainers).

I also tried on of the other two you've posted (the blue one). The best gainer I've ever used was Real Mass by Gaspari. Very consistent, unlike Real Mass by BSN which is hit or miss every time as far as quality is concerned. 


Check out Allstar Health if you're looking into gainers or even protein powders. Ridiculously low prices and a flat rate, cheap shipping as well.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> So a person at school today called me a "fucking idiot" for using whey protein and said that "all it does it make you fat." He swears by Gaspari Myofusion and says that protein blends and way (whey  ) better. Does his statement hold any truth?



what a fucking doucher 

also: who else trains barefoot


----------



## Uncreative123

JWGriebel said:


> Trying to mix this is like trying to mix cement.
> 
> I bought it once, then returned it (I'm an ectomporh and I have trouble gaining weight, so I've tried tons of gainers).
> 
> I also tried on of the other two you've posted (the blue one). The best gainer I've ever used was Real Mass by Gaspari. Very consistent, unlike Real Mass by BSN which is hit or miss every time as far as quality is concerned.
> 
> 
> Check out Allstar Health if you're looking into gainers or even protein powders. Ridiculously low prices and a flat rate, cheap shipping as well.



lol, what is real mass? You mean *True Mass*? That shit is awful for you. And I thought nothing worked for you anyway? If nothing worked then why are you now touting what works and what doesn't?


----------



## Aevolve

Uncreative123 said:


> lol, what is real mass? You mean *True Mass*? That shit is awful for you. And I thought nothing worked for you anyway? If nothing worked then why are you now touting what works and what doesn't?



I think he was just trying to share some helpful advice, as it might work for someone else.

Regardless, I think I'm just going to stick with the ON more consistently.
A bit off-topic, but what rep count per set should I be going for if my objective is strength and mass?
I've heard 4-8, but one of my good friends with bb experience is telling me 3x12 sets.


----------



## soliloquy

PeachesMcKenzie said:


> I think he was just trying to share some helpful advice, as it might work for someone else.
> 
> Regardless, I think I'm just going to stick with the ON more consistently.
> A bit off-topic, but what rep count per set should I be going for if my objective is strength and mass?
> I've heard 4-8, but one of my good friends with bb experience is telling me 3x12 sets.



id stick in the 6-8 range rep with 4 sets


----------



## Aevolve

soliloquy said:


> id stick in the 6-8 range rep with 4 sets



Sounds good to me, thanks.


----------



## Winspear

Yeah I'd definitely stay 8 or below. I've actually had really good results and beaten my stubborn chest since changing to 4-6 from 6-8.


----------



## SenorDingDong

Uncreative123 said:


> lol, what is real mass? You mean *True Mass*? That shit is awful for you. And I thought nothing worked for you anyway? If nothing worked then why are you now touting what works and what doesn't?



You seem to be an angry guy. 

I never said that "nothing" works. In fact, all I've stated is that (in a thread completely unrelated to this one, in fact, so I don't know why it was brought up here) I have a very, very hard time gaining weight. I am sharing my experience with gainers. 

And no, I mean Real Mass, Gaspari:










This is True Mass, by BSN:











EtherealEntity said:


> Yeah I'd definitely stay 8 or below. I've actually had really good results and beaten my stubborn chest since changing to 4-6 from 6-8.



I've seen the most gains in strength doing 6-8 reps as well. I don't know why, I just seem to get more out of the set.


----------



## Winspear

I should've written that the other way round - it does kinda read as me prefering 6-8 if not concentrating haha! 
4-6 is definitely better for me on the heavier exercises. 

But yes everyone will vary! 
I prefer higher reps light weight on exercises such as lateral raises, cable flyes, leg extensions etc where you can really focus on form and get a great contraction.


----------



## Uncreative123

JWGriebel said:


> You seem to be an angry guy.
> 
> I never said that "nothing" works. In fact, all I've stated is that (in a thread completely unrelated to this one, in fact, so I don't know why it was brought up here) I have a very, very hard time gaining weight. I am sharing my experience with gainers.



That's EXACTLY why I brought it up here. For those that didn't read all the ignorant things you wrote in the other thread (as well as the others that I haven't even gotten to yet.) 

You're a self-admitted "hard-gainer" who can't make any gains no matter what you eat- so explain to us why anyone should listen to your advice when it comes to making gains?


----------



## Evergrey

Horny Goat Weed
Great stuff.


----------



## soliloquy

whoa! ordering bunch of stuff from bb.com gets me a bill of 320 before shipping. 
getting the same stuff from allstarhealth.com gets me 263 before shipping.

i'm still going with bb.com but use their price match stuff as ASH.com is a lil iffy about shipping to canada.


----------



## jdecaire

Out of all the supplements I've tried my favourites are:

Pre-workout: N.O. Xplode 2.0 
Isolate: IsoFlex by Allmax Nutrition (kinda expensive but worth it)
Blend: MyoFusion
Intra-workout: AminoCore by Allmax (again expensive...but seriously...try it out)
MV: Orange Triad
Creatine: Purple K (pills that won't bloat you), or Con-cret
Fat-Burner: an ECA stack...nothing beats an ECA stack for cutting weight quick (well for me at least).


----------



## Uncreative123

jdecaire said:


> Fat-Burner: an ECA stack...nothing beats an ECA stack for cutting weight quick (well for me at least).




Except T3, Clen, winny, mast, and DNP.


----------



## Tiger

I use Syntha-6, waxy maize (I forget who makes it, the big orange canister) and Animal Rage for its mildness and silly name. During months when I'm doing speed and conversion to strength training I sometimes use creatine, Musclepharm makes it.

But my main sports supplement is an amazing wife who cooks healthy and clean and in support of my training cycle.


----------



## jaxadam

jdecaire said:


> Isolate: IsoFlex by Allmax Nutrition (kinda expensive but worth it)



The Allmax IsoFlex is one of my all-time favorite isolates. I also like AST VP2, although it doesn't taste nearly as good. Truscience Iso-ology isn't bad, either.



Uncreative123 said:


> Except T3, Clen, winny, mast, and DNP.



Nothing wrong with a winny cycle every once in a while!


----------



## Uncreative123

jaxadam said:


> Nothing wrong with a winny cycle every once in a while!




There is if you're running it alone. I don't think it's very good for cutting anyway. More for vascularity- which is only going to show at a lower bf% anyway.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Added creatine along with BCAAs to my stack.
I'm hearing stuff from people left, right and centre about the rights and wrongs of creatine, but all their warnings seem fishy to me. 5g swallowed down with water just pre-workout and first thing in the morning on rest days is what I'm doing. Right or wrong?


----------



## Uncreative123

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Added creatine along with BCAAs to my stack.
> I'm hearing stuff from people left, right and centre about the rights and wrongs of creatine, but all their warnings seem fishy to me. 5g swallowed down with water just pre-workout and first thing in the morning on rest days is what I'm doing. Right or wrong?




Creatine is always post-workout. Some N.O. supps will have small amounts of creatine in them which obviously you would take pre-workout, but cratine/glutamine, always post-workout.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Uncreative123 said:


> Creatine is always post-workout. Some N.O. supps will have small amounts of creatine in them which obviously you would take pre-workout, but cratine/glutamine, always post-workout.



Cheers man!



Edit: good lord BCAA powder is the worst thing I've ever tasted


----------



## Uncreative123

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Cheers man!
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: good lord BCAA powder is the worst thing I've ever tasted




It's really hit or miss. I always recommend Intek's BCAA's because they are the best or second best tasting supplements I've ever had:

BCAA EVOLUTION by INTEK

You can get it cheaper at complete nutrition/nutri-shop if you have one in the area. Usually around $35.

Those little O.N. BCAA tubs I like sometimes because it has caffeine in it. I think 160mg/serving. I had to pick up a Blue Raspberry one when we were in Brooklyn since I couldn't really get anything else. Pretty tasty.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth

Uncreative123 said:


> It's really hit or miss. I always recommend Intek's BCAA's because they are the best or second best tasting supplements I've ever had:
> 
> BCAA EVOLUTION by INTEK
> 
> You can get it cheaper at complete nutrition/nutri-shop if you have one in the area. Usually around $35.
> 
> Those little O.N. BCAA tubs I like sometimes because it has caffeine in it. I think 160mg/serving. I had to pick up a Blue Raspberry one when we were in Brooklyn since I couldn't really get anything else. Pretty tasty.



Ah, cheers. I live in the UK, I looked and I don't think anywhere ships Intek supps here, but I can get the ON stuff from their site. Pretty pricey though


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

Just ordered a container of N.O. Xplode and some Amino X along with it. Ran out of Jack3d and i figured i'd try some N.O. Xplode. Stoked to get it!!!


----------



## Uncreative123

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Just ordered a container of N.O. Xplode and some Amino X along with it. Ran out of Jack3d and i figured i'd try some N.O. Xplode. Stoked to get it!!!




NO Xplode will probably be an enormous let down for you compared to Jack3d. It's all about the dimethylamylamine. NO Xplode will cause jitters. 1,3 dimethylamylamine will cause you to be incredibly focused and aware.


----------



## UnderTheSign

I tried 2 different 1,3 dim supp samples a month or so ago and one of them made me focused but nervous and made me crash a few hours later, the other was good but had a light crash as well. Have heard similar stories from other people.


----------



## Uncreative123

UnderTheSign said:


> I tried 2 different 1,3 dim supp samples a month or so ago and one of them made me focused but nervous and made me crash a few hours later, the other was good but had a light crash as well. Have heard similar stories from other people.




Cool. I've never 'crashed' from a supplement or caffeine. And since 1,3 dimethylalanine isn't caffeine nor does it have the same chemical structure, it doesn't have the same effects. I don't know of anyone that has had issues with it, but if they have, it's going to be a lot worse on NO Xplode. 
I'm curious what two different supplements you were taking that had that compound in it, as I only even know of two still available that have it in it. And these were samples? As in, you didn't take the product for an extended period of time?


----------



## Tiger

Noxplode has no crash.

I take Animal rage because it doesnt have creatine and other things I dont like. It burns clean with no gestation issues and lasts forever, I take about half a scoop/dosage.

HOWEVER, I have tried a lot of them for fun:

BSN HyperFX - Awesome for running, I like small dosages, made me feel a little high. Too strong to take very long.

BEASTMODE - This tasted bizarre and I didnt like the feeling it gave me.
Musclepharm ASSAULT - I had this two years ago when it was in the different packaging, it was WAY too sweet for me. Maybe they changed it because it seems to be really popular now.

C4 - Bleh, weak and did not like any part of it.

Jacked - I have an interesting story with this: Took it 1 time before going in to the military. Was given it by my best friend who is now an AF officer/rugby player. I have NEVER, EVER felt that driven in a workout. I felt amazing. Holy shit. Swore I would buy some when I got through boot. I did, and ever since then and now, if I take jacked, I get sleepy and run down almost immediately. Like, I really want to fall asleep and feel kind of numb. My body just doesnt take Jacked, I dont know the science of it, but its like it fried those circuits or something, haha.


----------



## UnderTheSign

Uncreative123 said:


> Cool. I've never 'crashed' from a supplement or caffeine. And since 1,3 dimethylalanine isn't caffeine nor does it have the same chemical structure, it doesn't have the same effects. I don't know of anyone that has had issues with it, but if they have, it's going to be a lot worse on NO Xplode.
> I'm curious what two different supplements you were taking that had that compound in it, as I only even know of two still available that have it in it. And these were samples? As in, you didn't take the product for an extended period of time?


Correct, as they were samples, both satchets contained 2 servings (or rather a single serving but the packaging says to take half a serving to see how your body reacts, which I did all times) and I didn't use anything beyond that.

One of them was iForce Nutrition's Maximize Intense - iFORCE MAXIMIZE INTENSE 

The other one is part of a Dutch supp shop's own brand/product range and is called Unleash! V3. Loosely translated (courtesy of Google) it contained:


> Energy Complex (tyrosine, caffeine anhydrous, guarana, green tea extract, geranium oil, Vinburnine) 1865 mg
> 
> Endurance complex (glucoronolactone, white willow extract, trimethylglycine) 1020 mg
> 
> Ingredients: maltodextrin, creatine monohydrate, arginine AKG, beta alanine, whey isolate, leucine, citrulline malate, tyrosine, taurine, citric acid, trimethylglycine, taste, flavor, caffeine, glucoronolactone, beetroot powder, N-acetyl-cysteine, green tea extract, white willow extract, guarana, ponceau red, vitamin C, niacin B3, brilliant blue, black pepper extract, Vinburnine, folic acid, vitamin B12.



IMO Unleash's pump and energy boost were great and I blasted through my workout but the 'crash' (I'm not sure if that's the correct term? Have seen it being used by others. Pretty much a negative change of mood and lack of energy) wasn't. I had a falling out with a friend that day so that might've influenced or increased the moo.
Maximize Intense had a much less pleasant energy boost and took seemingly longer to kick in. Like Unleash, I took it 10 mins or so before I left for the gym, so 40 mins before my workout. Whereas Unleash was noticable pretty fast, by the time Maximize Intense started to show it's effects I was in my last 10 mins or so of a, say, 50-60 minute workout. When I came home I remained highly focused for almost another hour or so combined with a feeling of nervousness. The crash wasn't nearly as negative as Unleash but still there.

This doesn't apply to me as I'm not stateside, but anyone seen this? Medical News: FDA Goes After Products with DMAA - in Public Health & Policy, FDA General from MedPage Today


----------



## texshred777

I don't really mess with too many supps, but my currents are:

Isopure or O.N Gold Standard Whey 1-2x day depending on my schedule and diet for the day.
Fish Oils
Multi vitamin. Currently using Animal Pak. 
Occassionally I use Jack3d as well. I'll use it for a couple weeks, then a couple weeks without it.

The only thing I'm thinking about adding is creatine(standalone creatine, I know Jack3d has some in it as well).


----------



## MacTown09

My favorite pre workout is Muscle Marinade.

What do you guys think of it?


----------



## the hittmann

MacTown09 said:


> My favorite pre workout is Muscle Marinade.
> 
> What do you guys think of it?



Stuff is ok, I've found most pre-workouts just don't do anything for me, just give me the jitters.


----------



## MacTown09

I usually like them to help me get more motivated to train like a monster and to give me a little extra pump. 

I am going to try some assault next. I like the idea of having con-cret already mixed into the powder.


----------



## Uncreative123

MacTown09 said:


> I usually like them to help me get more motivated to train like a monster and to give me a little extra pump.
> 
> I am going to try some assault next. I like the idea of having con-cret already mixed into the powder.




I just bought a bunch of stuff today. I thought about the MP Assault, but passed and went for the straight pro-mera con-cret since it was a buy 1 get 1 free and because I don't know why they were marketing it as a pre-workout N.O. when it's just creatine. I'm going to A/B it with another mono creatine, and while I'm not expecting a difference I'll still see if I notice anything. The only straight mono creatine I took before left me with really bad bloating. 
I didn't realize Jack3d had HCI creatine in it, so I think this stuff will be legit. We'll see. 
I'm going to try the MP 'combat powder'. I don't have high expectations, but I needed something to tide me over until I can order some Metabolic Drive through Biotest. At nearly $5 million a bottle, it makes it hard to order frequently. 

I also got the MP CLA tabs. I really like the ones I'm taking now and it was buy 2 get 1 free, so, even better. I have a feeling MP is just going to be the next mockery of a company. All the UFC endorsement stuff is just sets an alarm off in me that says, "Don't buy it! It's pure garbage geard towards UFC-wannabes who've never lifted in their lives!". The ingredients, if correct, look legit, but I'm sure I'm still half-right.


----------



## soliloquy

has anyone tried anything from proteinfactory?
you can make your own protein there, and their prices seem pretty decent. plus, because you can make your own stuff, you can cut down on any fillers if you want from them:

Protein Factory High Quality Proteins and Custom Formulas


----------



## Tiger

^ Thats pretty cool, they remind me of

Infinit Nutrition - Custom Sports Nutrition Solutions

Whom I swear by, my formula is perfect for me. Not sure if I need a personalized protein though.


----------



## soliloquy

/\ whoa!!!! thats awesome and far more organized!!

and since iso-100's price has sky rocketed, i'm looking for alternative stuff that has zero or no colestrol and close to zero sodium as possible. i wonder if custom protein stuff would allow to do that at fairly low price


----------

