# The Chinese Gymnastics team age scandal



## Drew

The Olympics' age-old problem - Olympics - Yahoo! Sports

Since this is starting to take over the "List of things faked in the Beijing Olympics" thread, I figured it should probably get its own thread here. 

My thoughts? There's no way in hell those girls are any older than fourteen. It's a stretch to even call their build prepubescent, simply they're all straight lines.


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## Zak1233

to be honest i think the news and press should seriously shut the fuck up the beijing olympics, they keep trying to pick out every little flaw they can find and then write huge fuck off articles bitchin about it, its so stupid. But yeh i defo think they are under 14, they looks between 11-13 IMO but i dont see what the big deal is about the age thing, they beat everyones asses fair and square and the fact that they are younger shows that they are truly talented


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## Chris

Zak1233 said:


> to be honest i think the news and press should seriously shut the fuck up the beijing olympics, they keep trying to pick out every little flaw they can find and then write huge fuck off articles bitchin about it, its so stupid. But yeh i defo think they are under 14, they looks between 11-13 IMO but i dont see what the big deal is about the age thing, they beat everyones asses fair and square and the fact that they are younger shows that they are truly talented



There's this whole "rules" thing in competition that derails your argument dude.


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## Brendan G

Zak1233 said:


> to be honest i think the news and press should seriously shut the fuck up the beijing olympics, they keep trying to pick out every little flaw they can find and then write huge fuck off articles bitchin about it, its so stupid. But yeh i defo think they are under 14, they looks between 11-13 IMO but i dont see what the big deal is about the age thing, they beat everyones asses fair and square and the fact that they are younger shows that they are truly talented


Taken from the article "A younger and presumably smaller gymnast would have an advantage in some disciplines due to their nimble nature." So yeah, not fair and square.


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## Zak1233

Chris said:


> There's this whole "rules" thing in competition that derails your argument dude.



yer i know that but seeing as the chinese are hosting this years olympics i dont see anything getting done about it so people should just move on, they are obviously younger than 16, and to be honest that article just sounded like a little bitchy girl that didnt win a compitition, i get the feeling that that article is drivin by the fact that china came first and america came second( im american so i aint just sayin that to be a dick, i just think thats partially why that whole article was written, because he knows if they DO get their medals taken off of them then america would have been gold)


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## Sebastian

Some rules should be obeyed ... but i guess They won fair... they're smaller, but damn.,... at that age win a medal at the olympic games... you have to have talent ...


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## Drew

Zak1233 said:


> yer i know that but seeing as the chinese are hosting this years olympics i dont see anything getting done about it so people should just move on, they are obviously younger than 16, and to be honest that article just sounded like a little bitchy girl that didnt win a compitition, i get the feeling that that article is drivin by the fact that china came first and america came second( im american so i aint just sayin that to be a dick, i just think thats partially why that whole article was written, because he knows if they DO get their medals taken off of them then america would have been gold)



Well, the point of the editorial I linked was that since Beijing obviously isn't going to push on this, the IOC really needs to man up and open an investigation for one of the following two reasons;

1.) If the team was underage, then China took an unfair advantage, and there is grounds for revoking their medals. 
2.) If the team was NOT underage, then there's enough global uproar in the media that their achievement will be tarnished unless the IOC clears their name. 

I think everyone knows that if their medals are taken away, then the Americans win the gold. That's sort of the point here - that there's cause to suspect that the Chinese are not entitled to those medals. There's going to be doubt until an investigation is made to independantly verify the age of the team.


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## Drew

Sebastian said:


> Some rules should be obeyed ... but i guess They won fair... they're smaller, but damn.,... at that age win a medal at the olympic games... you have to have talent ...



Here's the thing, though - a 13 year old will be lighter, more flexible, and more limber than a 16 year old. That gives you a HUGE competitive advantage in gymnastic events. It's not a case of "I can't believe they won, since they're so young," it's a case of "they're winning because they're three years younger than anyone they're competing against."


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## The Dark Wolf

Drew said:


> Here's the thing, though - a 13 year old will be lighter, more flexible, and more limber than a 16 year old. That gives you a HUGE competitive advantage in gymnastic events. It's not a case of "I can't believe they won, since they're so young," it's a case of "they're winning because they're three years younger than anyone they're competing against."



 I mean, think about it. Alicia Sacramone and Nastia Liukin look like giants out there, and they're 5'1" and 5'2" respectively!  Shawn Johnson is like 4'8".

Plus, gymnastics take s a pretty hefty toll on the body. Younger girls, who haven't been in many international competitions, are likely to be much less beat up. With men, well, men's gymnastics requires upper body strength far more, so extreme youth and small size isn't really an advantage. But women's gymnastics is about grace and acrobatics more so. Big plus to be small.


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## Zak1233

Sebastian said:


> Some rules should be obeyed ... but i guess They won fair... they're smaller, but damn.,... at that age win a medal at the olympic games... you have to have talent ...



i agree 100% no one can deny the fact that they are extremely talented even if they ARE underage, but as for the american thing, it is a bit obvious that all they want is for america to win another medal, i say stfu and let them have it, phelps will get another, he's amazing


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## Brendan G

Zak1233 said:


> i agree 100% no one can deny the fact that they are extremely talented even if they ARE underage, but as for the american thing, it is a bit obvious that all they want is for america to win another medal, i say stfu and let them have it, phelps will get another, he's amazing


America wanting another gold medal contributes to this story no doubt, but China doing this is just dishonorable and cheating, you cannot argue with that no matter how hard you try. As many others have said, being younger, thus usually smaller, lighter, and more flexible, is a huge advantage in female gymnastics, and that was more than likely exploited during the olympics.


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## DelfinoPie

Zak1233 said:


> i agree 100% no one can deny the fact that they are extremely talented even if they ARE underage, but as for the american thing, it is a bit obvious that all they want is for america to win another medal, i say stfu and let them have it, phelps will get another, he's amazing



It's not a matter of wanting America to win another medal, it's the fact that they should investigate this because it's cheating. Saying "stfu and let them have it" makes them out to be in dire need of medals when in reality they're 5 behind America's 46 medals with their 41.

The amount of medals is irrelevant, it's the principle that the host country thinks that they can get away with cheating (although it's not officially substantiated it definitely looks that way to a lot of people and I agree).


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## Kevan

It doesn't matter if it's Kreplakistan that got the silver.
The point is: CHEATING; UNFAIRNESS; NOT ABIDING BY THE RULES.
That's it.
End of the "Sore Loser" theory.

I'm so fuckin' sick of the bullshit. It's so blatant, yet no one dares touch it (save for a couple of writers).

This is a dragon that will come back and bite China in the ass.
Hard.


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## Zak1233

see the thing is i know its wrong for china to do that, because when you first look at the chinese team you notice straight away that they look wayyyyy too young (probobly havent started puberty by the looks of it, which has been said ) but my point is i dont think that anything is going to get done about it, there for people should just get over it and move on! and not whine like fucking babies " ohhh their cheating mommmy" yeh they are cheating but seeing as they are hosting, they have more power over this matter and have an advantage that way

Yang Yi Lin IMO is the only one of the only ones that could just slightly pass for being 16


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## The Dark Wolf

Kevan said:


> This is a dragon that will come back and bite China in the ass.
> Hard.



I agree with you on your first part.

But... how do you explain this second part above? It's a pretty odd statement, and the idea that cheaters never prosper isn't exactly grounded in reality.

So 'splain yourself, Lucy.


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## Kevan

The truth will eventually come out.
When it does, China will be stripped of it's medals (publicly), and the teams below them will all move up a notch (USA, Romania, etc...).
It will be a GIGANTIC embarrassment to the country of China and the entire Olympic organization (the IOC).

*WHEN IT HAPPENS* I would not be surprised if China is banned from team competition and/or gymnastics altogether. I also wouldn't raise an eyebrow if they're shut out of the next Olympic games completely.
Coughing up medals would only be part of the sentence.

There's your dragon, and there's your ass-biting.


Zak- just because you're the host country doesn't give you the right to cheat and lie.
I didn't hear A PEEP about anything like this in Greece, Italy, SLC, Australia, Japan, ATL, Norway, Spain, France....I could do this all night.


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## Zak1233

Kevan said:


> Zak- just because you're the host country doesn't give you the right to cheat and lie.
> I didn't hear A PEEP about anything like this in Greece, Italy, SLC, Australia, Japan, ATL, Norway, Spain, France....I could do this all night.



I know all those countrys didnt, I dont think you get what im saying.
I dont agree with what china have done seeing as the gymnastic team are cleary younger than the acquired age but what im saying is, its done, they won the gold. I highly see it getting taken away from them so its time to move on and get over it.
I didnt mean it to sound as if i was sayin "they are hosting so what they say and do is correct", i meant that because they are hosting they will have a bit more power in covering things up etc


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## Nick

Zak1233 said:


> to be honest i think the news and press should seriously shut the fuck up the beijing olympics, they keep trying to pick out every little flaw they can find and then write huge fuck off articles bitchin about it, its so stupid. But yeh i defo think they are under 14, they looks between 11-13 IMO but i dont see what the big deal is about the age thing, they beat everyones asses fair and square and the fact that they are younger shows that they are truly talented



i think you need to look at the 11- 14 year olds legs there. Is that the musculature of an 11 - 14 year old?

Weight training is very BAD for the development of pre puberty individual it can postpone or stop puberty occuring and its also bad for your bones while you are still growing. That is the reason why the age limit is in place because its actually bad for these young girls to be put through the rigorous training schedules they must be to get legs looking like that.

There is no doubt they have talent and at the end of the day, yeah they deserve to win if they are actually better but the age restrictions are there for the benifit of the individuals not to shit on countries who have great atheletes who are just too young to take part. Its really nothing to do with it being unfair that they are lighter and more flexible. Younger people are also generally less co ordinated so id say it would balance out.


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## Zak1233

they look like stick insects which is why i think most people belive they are too young


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## The Dark Wolf

Kevan said:


> The truth will eventually come out.
> When it does, China will be stripped of it's medals (publicly), and the teams below them will all move up a notch (USA, Romania, etc...).
> It will be a GIGANTIC embarrassment to the country of China and the entire Olympic organization (the IOC).
> 
> *WHEN IT HAPPENS* I would not be surprised if China is banned from team competition and/or gymnastics altogether. I also wouldn't raise an eyebrow if they're shut out of the next Olympic games completely.
> Coughing up medals would only be part of the sentence.
> 
> There's your dragon, and there's your ass-biting.



Well, that would only be fair and just.

But this IS the IOC, my naive friend. 

Nothing will happen, except maybe the US will get awarded golds, too. Paul Hamm, anyone? 

BAD dragon! *wrist slap*


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## Nick

Zak1233 said:


> they look like stick insects which is why i think most people belive they are too young



again i think you should look at the girl in the first pictures thigh. That aint the thigh of a 11 - 14 year old. Its nothing on the american girls but still probably more muscle on there than a lot of the grown mens thighs on this board lol.


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## Zak1233

yah i know what you mean  tbh i think they are just more petite than the americans, they got more chunky thighs ( still sexay though lool )


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## Kevan

Zak1233 said:


> I know all those countrys didnt, I dont think you get what im saying.
> I dont agree with what china have done seeing as the gymnastic team are cleary younger than the acquired age but what im saying is, its done, they won the gold. I highly see it getting taken away from them so its time to move on and get over it.
> I didnt mean it to sound as if i was sayin "they are hosting so what they say and do is correct", i meant that because they are hosting they will have a bit more power in covering things up etc


Actually, that was a list of the last 9 Summer and Winter Olympic host countries/US cities. 
None of them tried to "pull some shit" while they hosted. YES- there were scandals (French skating judges anyone?), but none so blatantly obvious to even the amateur viewer, and none with so much evidence outlining straight-up guilt.

You're only fooling yourself if you think it's done.

Bob- you're right. 
I keep forgetting the IOC is a bunch of pussies trying to protect their job. Hmmm...maybe they should run for some type of government office....

If they want to show the world that they're legit and aren't still taping hair to their nuts, they will make the medal yanking a bigass deal.


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## Zak1233

Kevan said:


> Actually, that was a list of the last 9 Summer and Winter Olympic host countries/US cities.



yeh i knew that, its a bit obvious thats what you meant dont you think...
and its funny you saying that about the french judges, it shows you just dont want china to take these medals really. cheating is cheating, theres no inbetween, it dosnt matter if its "blatantly obvious to even the amateur viewer" or not, its still a scandal.
so "You're only fooling yourself" if you want to belive that.


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## Josh Lawson

Zak1233 said:


> yah i know what you mean  tbh i think they are just more petite than the americans, they got more chunky thighs ( still sexay though lool )


No way dude! They are like 9 years old or something! This sport has always been the pedophiles wet dream, anyway. File this scandalous garbage away in the Jonbenet Ramsey crapper!!!!


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## Zak1233

Josh Lawson said:


> No way dude! They are like 9 years old or something! This sport has always been the pedophiles wet dream, anyway. File this scandalous garbage away in the Jonbenet Ramsey crapper!!!!


eh what? im 17 and i didnt mean the chinese team, i ment the american team, they are like 16ish IIRC


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## Josh Lawson

Zak1233 said:


> eh what? im 17 and i didnt mean the chinese team, i ment the american team, they are like 16ish IIRC


I wasn't pointing my twisted, fucked up humor at directly at you, I was just saying in general that this sport in general appears to me to be basically child exploitation.


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## Chris

Zak1233 said:


> yeh i knew that, its a bit obvious thats what you meant dont you think...
> and its funny you saying that about the french judges, it shows you just dont want china to take these medals really. cheating is cheating, theres no inbetween, it dosnt matter if its "blatantly obvious to even the amateur viewer" or not, its still a scandal.
> so "You're only fooling yourself" if you want to belive that.



Dude, what the hell are you talking about?

China cheated. They don't deserve medals. Period. If the US cheated, we wouldn't get medals either. End of story. If those girls look 16 to you, you need glasses.


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## Josh Lawson

The "I thought she was legal" excuse REALLY isn't going to hold up in court this time! China should be forced to be registered on the "Megan's Law" site.


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## Zak1233

Chris said:


> Dude, what the hell are you talking about?
> 
> China cheated. They don't deserve medals. Period. If the US cheated, we wouldn't get medals either. End of story. If those girls look 16 to you, you need glasses.



wow am i confused now, you need to be 16 to enter dont you? yet your saying that they arent 16? im pretty sure shawn johnson is 16 is she not?
i think its funny how serious people take the olympics  i think they forget its just a game...


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## ZeroSignal

Zak1233 said:


> i think its funny how serious people take the olympics  i think they forget its just a game...



Dude... what are you talking about? A lot of people put mind-blowing amounts of time and effort into themselves to play against the best in the world and attempt to beat them and become the best and it's not to be taken seriously? 

Riiiight...


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## Zak1233

oh my god lol so i got half of SS hatin on me GG tbh, cant be assed postin here anymore seeing as my opinions are nothing really (not on SS, i mean this thread)
and yeh at the end of the day i was wrong in saying its only a game... because its more than just a game, its lots of games


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## Chris

Zak1233 said:


> oh my god lol so i got half of SS hatin on me GG tbh, cant be assed postin here anymore seeing as my opinions are nothing really (not on SS, i mean this thread)
> and yeh at the end of the day i was wrong in saying its only a game... because its more than just a game, its lots of games



Yes, your opinion that cheating is cool, along with you trying to blame America for China cheating (which boggles the mind) is not going to go over well. Imagine that.


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## Zak1233

Chris said:


> Yes, your opinion that cheating is cool, along with you trying to blame America for China cheating (which boggles the mind) is not going to go over well. Imagine that.



nonono see you are getting it wrong too, im not trying to blame America for China cheating, all im simply saying is that i think people should just forget it that this has happened and move on (thats the point i've been trying to stress in like 5 posts here) only time can tell if the IOC will do anything about this unfortunate event, and as for the american thing, im american and i dont find any of what i have said offensive, i guess some people are just a little too patriotic ( i dno if thats the right word to use here but w/e lol ,i'd be the same if i lived in america all my life but unfortunately i moved to scotlnd when i was 6, so i guess i aint as patriotic as i would have been if i were to still live there)


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## Brendan G

Zak1233 said:


> nonono see you are getting it wrong too, im not trying to blame America for China cheating, all im simply saying is that i think people should just forget it that this has happened and move on (thats the point i've been trying to stress in like 5 posts here) only time can tell if the IOC will do anything about this unfortunate event, and as for the american thing, im american and i dont find any of what i have said offensive, i guess some people are just a little too patriotic ( i dno if thats the right word to use here but w/e lol ,i'd be the same if i lived in america all my life but unfortunately i moved to scotlnd when i was 6, so i guess i aint as patriotic as i would have been if i were to still live there)


If we just leave it alone as you suggest, (and if they did indeed cheat) then they would continue to cheat, now cheating in a schoolyard game is one thing, but cheating in a world wide even is just disgusting. However if they did not cheat and if they gymnasts are just (way) underdeveloped 16 year olds then the controversy would just disappear and all the bitching would end.


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## Rick

Zak1233 said:


> nonono see you are getting it wrong too, im not trying to blame America for China cheating, all im simply saying is that i think people should just forget it that this has happened and move on (thats the point i've been trying to stress in like 5 posts here) only time can tell if the IOC will do anything about this unfortunate event, and as for the american thing, im american and i dont find any of what i have said offensive, i guess some people are just a little too patriotic ( i dno if thats the right word to use here but w/e lol ,i'd be the same if i lived in america all my life but unfortunately i moved to scotlnd when i was 6, so i guess i aint as patriotic as i would have been if i were to still live there)



I'm sure if you were in some kind of competition where someone else won by cheating, you'd be okay with that.


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## Zak1233

Rick said:


> I'm sure if you were in some kind of competition where someone else won by cheating, you'd be okay with that.


of course i wouldnt but you then think so what, its happened to me many a time but obviously not to the same extent as the olympics, but i think that the female american team probobly dont even care as much as some of the people on here, after all they did win the silver medal, if that aint good then what is? the chinese have won it, they deserve it 100% but if however it is found that they are not in the appropriate age group to enter then they obviously dont deserve it and the american team do

female asians have a tendancy to look younger than they actually are, so i'm just waiting to here what the officials have to say before i go into a flaming war about how terrible the chinese are that they have done something like this...


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## Jason

Zak1233 said:


> of course i wouldnt but you then think so what, its happened to me many a time but obviously not to the same extent as the olympics, but i think that the female american team probobly dont even care as much as some of the people on here, after all they did win the silver medal, if that aint good then what is? the chinese have won it, they deserve it 100% but if however it is found that they are not in the appropriate age group to enter then they obviously dont deserve it and the american team do
> 
> female asians have a tendancy to look younger than they actually are, so i'm just waiting to here what the officials have to say before i go into a flaming war about how terrible the chinese are that they have done something like this...



I'm sure they prepared and waited all this time to just win a silver medal.


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## Zak1233

Jason said:


> I'm sure they prepared and waited all this time to just win a silver medal.


people like you need to step out side the box for a second and think "holy shit they won silver at the olympics, its only the biggest fucking sporting even in the world"
i seriously think people should get a fucking grip about this and wait for officials to say if china really are cheating instead of jumping to conclusions even if they really DO look young. it would be reallllyyy funny if they are of age for this event  this thread would be a waste of space


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## Josh Lawson

Zak1233 said:


> people like you need to step out side the box for a second and think "holy shit they won silver at the olympics, its only the biggest fucking sporting even in the world"
> i seriously think people should get a fucking grip about this and wait for officials to say if china really are cheating instead of jumping to conclusions even if they really DO look young. it would be reallllyyy funny if they are of age for this event  this thread would be a waste of space


BUT, they aren't......


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## D-EJ915

yeah considering there were news articles which were later edited to modify the age I mean come on...


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## NewArmyGuitar

You can bet your ass there would have already been a full investigation done if someone had even mentioned steroids or any other performance-enhancing drugs MIGHT have been involved in someone winning a medal. It's a shame that the IOC doesn't view all cheating the same way.


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## Chris

Zak1233 said:


> nonono see you are getting it wrong too, im not trying to blame America for China cheating, all im simply saying is that i think people should just forget it that this has happened and move on (thats the point i've been trying to stress in like 5 posts here) only time can tell if the IOC will do anything about this unfortunate event, and as for the american thing, im american and i dont find any of what i have said offensive, i guess some people are just a little too patriotic ( i dno if thats the right word to use here but w/e lol ,i'd be the same if i lived in america all my life but unfortunately i moved to scotlnd when i was 6, so i guess i aint as patriotic as i would have been if i were to still live there)



It's not being "too Patriotic". You brought up the USA wanting more medals, when America had absolutely nothing to do with China cheating. This, right here:



Zak1233 said:


> it is a bit obvious that all they want is for america to win another medal, i say stfu and let them have it, phelps will get another, he's amazing



Is where you lose all credibility. This is the Olympics. It's supposed to unite nations and give people something to feel good about, not some kid's tee ball game. You cheat, you lose. It doesn't matter what country you're from or who's in second.


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## Chris

Zak1233 said:


> people like you need to step out side the box for a second and think "holy shit they won silver at the olympics, its only the biggest fucking sporting even in the world"
> i seriously think people should get a fucking grip about this and wait for officials to say if china really are cheating instead of jumping to conclusions even if they really DO look young. it would be reallllyyy funny if they are of age for this event  this thread would be a waste of space



Yes, they won silver because they were beaten by a team that cheated. If Norway was in second, they'd deserve the gold as well, and people would be just as pissed off.


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## Chris

Olympic Scandal? Why The IOC Needs to Revaluate Itself | Bleacher Report


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## DelfinoPie

Chris said:


> Olympic Scandal? Why The IOC Needs to Revaluate Itself | Bleacher Report



Whoa holy fuck...although this is off topic, but I was completely unaware of the Spain Basketball Team racism thing  It immediately reminded me of another racist sporting incident involving a small group of Spanish F1 fans who blackened their faces and wore T-shirts that had "Hamilton's Family" written on them to mock the black English F1 driver, Lewis Hamilton.

Here's a follow up article after the initial outrage with one of the Spanish fans speaking out and not understanding how what he did was wrong...

Racism, what racism? asks Spain | World news | guardian.co.uk

BACK ON TOPIC

*Zak1233*

Saying people should "Get over it" and "Move on" really isn't an acceptable attitude to take on this incident IMO. It just gives other countries the impression that it's OK to cheat and that it won't be investigated. If China are cheating for DEFINITE then they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it. Just imagine how many other nations might attempt the same tricks (and new ones) at the 2012 Olympics? If they're not cheating then I'm sure they've heard the allegations people have made against them and they should step forward with proof that these girls are regulation age to take part in the sport.

I do respect your opinion and I don't think anyone hates you, it's just a difference of opinions  Hate is a strong word that should only be used when referencing murdering, maiming, nation destroying tyrants like Robert Mugabe


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## Drew

Zak1233 said:


> people like you need to step out side the box for a second and think "holy shit they won silver at the olympics, its only the biggest fucking sporting even in the world"
> i seriously think people should get a fucking grip about this and wait for officials to say if china really are cheating instead of jumping to conclusions even if they really DO look young. it would be reallllyyy funny if they are of age for this event  this thread would be a waste of space



Here's the thing, though - the "Officials" aren't even looking. 

Right now, there's a lot of international (NOT just American, as you're trying to insinuate, but truly global) outcry because there is strong reason to suspect at least three Chinese gymnasts are under age - the fact that none of them seem to have hit puberty, the fact that official state news sources were, as recently as last year, talking about these "young 13-year-old gymnastic sensations" which would put them at 14 this year (the rule is you need to turn 16 sometime during the calendar year during which the olympics occur, so every gymnast on the floor has to at least be on the upper end of 15). In short, there's a hell of a lot of grounds for susppicion. 

And what is the olympic committee doing? Nothing. They took (Chinese state-issued, many from 6 months before the games) passports as all the proof of age they needed, and even now that a lot of doubt surrounding the veracity of those documents has surfaced, they're hemming and hawing and doing a whole lot of, well, _nothing_ about the possibility that China might have rigged this one. Why? Well, China paid a LOT of money to win these games, and they certainly don't want to embarrass the host country at their own games...  

Should the American team be proud of the silver medal? Of course they should, they've proved themselves to be some of the best gymnasts in the world. Does that mean that the rest of the world should forget that the Chinese team beat them by fielding underage athletes, and make it that much easier for the IOC to continue to do nothing? Of course not - if they get away with it this year, they'll do it again in 2012, and that'll just continue to put pressure on other nations to field underage teams to not lose an important competitive advantage, and the real losers then will be the girls destroying their bodies by forcing them to do things that they're not biologically ready for.


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## Drew

Another telling picture:


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## Drew

Hell, some commentator raised an excellent point - the CHINESE should be pushing for an investigation here, if the girls really are of age. The global consensus right now is that they are most likely not, so their gold medals are considered tainted by the strong suspicion that many of them were inelligible to compete. 

So, given that a lot of the world thinks that the Chinese should be stripped of their medals, you;d think the Chinese would want an investigation done here to prove conclusively that the girls are in fact legal, to remove the shadow of doubt from their medals. Funny how so far they too are trying to make the whole controversy blow over...


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## DelfinoPie

Drew said:


> So, given that a lot of the world thinks that the Chinese should be stripped of their medals, you;d think the Chinese would want an investigation done here to prove conclusively that the girls are in fact legal, to remove the shadow of doubt from their medals. Funny how so far they too are trying to make the whole controversy blow over...






DelfinoPie said:


> If they're not cheating then I'm sure they've heard the allegations people have made against them and they should step forward with proof that these girls are regulation age to take part in the sport.



 Exactly.


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## D-EJ915

a special guest was found to have been cloaked, decloaking technology was used on the image and revealed the special guest


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## Roundhouse_Kick

Chris said:


> Olympic Scandal? Why The IOC Needs to Revaluate Itself | Bleacher Report



Interesting to see there were so many contentious judging desicions. Did anyone else see the mens high bar final? The chinese athlete won with quite a conservative, albeit well executed routine. The american (I can't remember his name) came out with a really brave spectacular routine that he nailed, and he only came second! Even the BBC commentators were gutted for him!


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## El Caco

OK I got sick of reading this thread after 20 posts of China is cheating. Can anyone point me to the evidence that they are cheating please? I admit that they look young but my wife looked 8 when she was 16, her mother was offered children's fare on the train when she was 50 something, yes they might be underage but I want to see evidence otherwise as far as I am concerned they won fair.

These are the youngest pics I have of Lollie on my computer, she is over 18 in these pics and that is Annie with the bottle (not my feet by the way).


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## El Caco

I'll add that Lollie's dad was an Olympic gymnast and she was told that if she had of been a competitive gymnast that it would have further stunted her development. IIRC I believe that was the reason she did not get into it but I ask her when she wakes up.


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## The Dark Wolf

^ Your chick is very aptly named. 

But those Chinese girls were still underage, man. 1) There was an article mentioning one was like 14. 2) There might be exceptions around, like your girl, sure. But the whole team pretty much? C'mon, man.  Stretches credulity.


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## Mr. S

D-EJ915 said:


> a special guest was found to have been cloaked, decloaking technology was used on the image and revealed the special guest


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## El Caco

The Dark Wolf said:


> ^ Your chick is very aptly named.
> 
> But those Chinese girls were still underage, man. 1) There was an article mentioning one was like 14. 2) There might be exceptions around, like your girl, sure. But the whole team pretty much? C'mon, man.  Stretches credulity.



I don't think so, the media makes mistakes and I would guess that the media over there would not be held to the same standards regarding fact checking etc. 

As for the whole team looking young, why not? We are talking about their national team, the very best they have out of a nation of 1.8 billion. Surely out of 1.8 billion people it would not be very hard to pick a team of underdeveloped gymnasts and you would expect that the very best would be the underdeveloped ones. Also I think it is unfair to hold a different race to the same expectations you would expect from your own, I could just as easily suggest that an Egyptian had not reached puberty because of a lack of pubic hair and I would also be wrong.

The fact is they provided evidence that they are the required age as per the rules, people are making a serious accusation that the passports they provided are falsified without evidence on the grounds that they look young when it is far more likely that they are the most underdeveloped and talented gymnasts from a population of 1.8 billion people who tend to look younger than their age in general.

Even if I hadn't of seen a documentary of the Chinese gymnasts before the Olympics I still would not have a problem as the population of Australia is 100 times smaller and I see Asian women that look underage here all the time.

Like I said they have provided evidence, I think before people make the serious claim that these documents are false some credible evidence should be provided to support these accusations.


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## Zak1233

s7eve said:


> I don't think so, the media makes mistakes and I would guess that the media over there would not be held to the same standards regarding fact checking etc.
> 
> As for the whole team looking young, why not? We are talking about their national team, the very best they have out of a nation of 1.8 billion. Surely out of 1.8 billion people it would not be very hard to pick a team of underdeveloped gymnasts and you would expect that the very best would be the underdeveloped ones. Also I think it is unfair to hold a different race to the same expectations you would expect from your own, I could just as easily suggest that an Egyptian had not reached puberty because of a lack of pubic hair and I would also be wrong.
> 
> The fact is they provided evidence that they are the required age as per the rules, people are making a serious accusation that the passports they provided are falsified without evidence on the grounds that they look young when it is far more likely that they are the most underdeveloped and talented gymnasts from a population of 1.8 billion people who tend to look younger than their age in general.
> 
> Even if I hadn't of seen a documentary of the Chinese gymnasts before the Olympics I still would not have a problem as the population of Australia is 100 times smaller and I see Asian women that look underage here all the time.
> 
> Like I said they have provided evidence, I think before people make the serious claim that these documents are false some credible evidence should be provided to support these accusations.



Finally!! someone that has the same views as me about this matter!


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## SnowfaLL

Im not touching this topic with a 10 foot pole. Too touchy, on both sides of the stick.


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## jymellis

then why were they allowed to compete in the first place? no one had a problem lookin at them from the beginning because everyone thought they would lose. now that they win theres a problem? bunch of crapolla! if there was a problem with their age they shouldnt have been there.


jym


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## Kevan

A securities firm just reported that they found official Chinese documents/spreadsheets listing the little girl as having a b-day of 1.1.1994.

Looks like someone in Beijing forgot to clear their cache.

The fit is about to hit the shan.


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## Chris

^ Link or so?


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## Groff

Chris said:


> ^ Link or so?



Hacker uncovers 'proof' that Chinese gymnast is underage - Times Online

This, I think.



> The latest unofficial investigation was carried out by 'Stryde', a computer security expert for the New York-based Intrepidus Group, whose site Stryde Hax revealed a detailed forensic search for Ms He&#8217;s age.
> 
> The blogger first simply tried Google, only to find that an official listing by the Chinese sports administration that had given her age could no longer be accessed. Next he tried the Google cache, only to find that Ms He&#8217;s name had been removed.
> 
> So then he tried the cache of Chinese search engine Baidu. There, he found that Baidu lists two spreadsheets in Ms He's name, both giving her date of birth as January 1, 1994 &#8211; making her 14 years and 220 days old and too young to compete at these Olympics.


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## The Dark Wolf

Take that, S7eve.


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## Zak1233

"If she is truly only 14 then that makes her gold medal-winning performance all the more outstanding and well-deserved.
Jacinta, London , UK"


I agree with this 100%, although i know everyone in this thread wont.


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## The Dark Wolf

Sike.

Because smaller size and a fresher body coveys a competitive ADVANTAGE in gymnastics. Especially when you've been doing it since 3.

Now, if she was 34, that would be something.


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## Desecrated

The Dark Wolf said:


> Sike.
> 
> Because smaller size and a fresher body coveys a competitive ADVANTAGE in gymnastics. Especially when you've been doing it since 3.
> 
> Now, if she was 34, that would be something.



Isn't the mental part also a big factor, a 21 year old has an advantage against an 14 year old.


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## Zak1233

The Dark Wolf said:


> Sike.
> 
> Because smaller size and a fresher body coveys a competitive ADVANTAGE in gymnastics. Especially when you've been doing it since 3.
> 
> Now, if she was 34, that would be something.



i know its an advantage everyone says it blahblahblah why not just make the age restriction younger then? why not make it 14 so that they are competing optimum physical state


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## The Dark Wolf

Desecrated said:


> Isn't the mental part also a big factor, a 21 year old has an advantage against an 14 year old.



Ordinarily, I'd say yes.

But if you've been trained your whole life, since 3, with absolutely minimal distractions or diversions?

Then the "mental" aspect of age is nullified.

Regardless, the rules state they have to be at least 16. (Probably in part to prevent kids being inculcated into a discipline so thoroughly, at the expense of a "life", just like this.)


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## Rick

Kinda like how pro tennis limits your number of tournaments before you're 16 so you don't end up fried.


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## Drew

s7eve said:


> Like I said they have provided evidence, I think before people make the serious claim that these documents are false some credible evidence should be provided to support these accusations.



The "evidence" they've provided was a Chinese passport. That's sort of like allowing me to withdraw a million dollars from my checking account, cash, because I have a signed statement from myself saying that I have a million dollars in my checking account, dude. 

Meanwhile, when news stories about "young new Chinese prodigy gymnast rising stars" in China's state press where they're identified as 13, are being pulled, and replaced with identical stories giving their age as two years older, at 15, and more and more collaborating evidence keeps turning up...

To further my analogy, that's sort of like me saying, "oh, ignore all of those overdraft charges, someone must have made a mistake. See? I have a signed statement from the owner of the account saying that it holds more than a million."


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## Drew

The Dark Wolf said:


> Ordinarily, I'd say yes.
> 
> But if you've been trained your whole life, since 3, with absolutely minimal distractions or diversions?
> 
> Then the "mental" aspect of age is nullified.
> 
> Regardless, the rules state they have to be at least 16. (Probably in part to prevent kids being inculcated into a discipline so thoroughly, at the expense of a "life", just like this.)



Actually, Bob, NBC commentators said time and time again that older gymnasts actually seem to be at more of a disadvantage, when it comes to reigning in their nerves, in that they're more experienced and more aware of the consequences (and, implicitly, they know this may be their last shot). It's no coincidence that Shawn Johnson, one of our youngest gymnasts, was bulletproof, while Alicia Scaramone couldn't shake her nerves for the whole Games.


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## MorbidTravis

i think that the chinese should be banned from gymnastics in the next olympics.


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## Zak1233

MorbidTravis said:


> i think that the chinese should be banned from gymnastics in the next olympics.


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## El Caco

First, that's the kind of evidence I was talking about and now that it has come out I think China should be disqualified at least from Gymnastics but I would say the whole games (I know it will not happen). This does not change what I said above, the accusations that were made before the evidence was provided were deformation and something that would not be tolerated in the US but of course non US citizens are not entitled to the same rights 



Drew said:


> The "evidence" they've provided was a Chinese passport. That's sort of like allowing me to withdraw a million dollars from my checking account, cash, because I have a signed statement from myself saying that I have a million dollars in my checking account, dude.
> 
> Meanwhile, when news stories about "young new Chinese prodigy gymnast rising stars" in China's state press where they're identified as 13, are being pulled, and replaced with identical stories giving their age as two years older, at 15, and more and more collaborating evidence keeps turning up...
> 
> To further my analogy, that's sort of like me saying, "oh, ignore all of those overdraft charges, someone must have made a mistake. See? I have a signed statement from the owner of the account saying that it holds more than a million."



I'm not sure how easy it is to get a passport over there but it is not that easy over here, over here to falsify your age like this would require either forged documents or Government participation in the fraud and that is why I believe that China should possibly be disqualified from the games now that this evidence has come forward.

This is the last straw for me, I love sport and I look forward to the Olympics as a showcase of the sporting elite but these games are a joke. I have never seen more controversy condensed into such a small time frame and every day when I watch an event i get so frustrated by the bias, bad decisions etc that it is making me lose faith.

As a sports fan I have never been a big fan of the show but that is what all sport is becoming, it's a sad time to see the Olympics become nothing more than a show instead of the showcase it should be 

I can't help but fear what this could turn into now that the IOC is holding test samples for 10 years. Records have been smashed on epic scales unheard of during these Olympics and I fear the mass stripping of medals in the future as testing catches up with todays cheats.

It was always a bad idea to give China the Olympics and it seems that they have delivered as I would expect, something that looks incredible and like great value but leaves you wishing you had of gone with someone that has a reputation for quality.

Everyday I lose a little more faith in the big time and realise how much better grass roots sport is but the Olympics was always supposed to be the elite of grass roots, this is fucking sad.


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## Zak1233

s7eve said:


> As a sports fan I have never been a big fan of the show but that is what all sport is becoming, it's a sad time to see the Olympics become nothing more than a show instead of the showcase it should be



i agree, its ashame to see something that was once so spectacular now turn into an event that people will do anything to win even if it includes things against the rules.( i still dont think its that big a deal about the chinese team but doping on the other hand, thats sooooooo fucking lame)


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## MorbidTravis

Zak1233 said:


>



hey, its what i think, im sure if america put a dolphin on the swim team, we would get barred from something in the next olympics


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## Zak1233

MorbidTravis said:


> hey, its what i think, im sure if america put a dolphin on the swim team, we would get barred from something in the next olympics



nah they probs wouldnt as long as it came from the US and is in the proper age group


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## D-EJ915

IOC orders investigation into He Kexin's age - Fourth-Place Medal - Olympics - Yahoo! Sports


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## Kevan

MorbidTravis said:


> hey, its what i think, im sure if america put a dolphin on the swim team, we would get barred from something in the next olympics


They did.
His name is Michael Phelps.


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## MorbidTravis

Kevan said:


> They did.
> His name is Michael Phelps.



lol +1


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## Drew

s7eve said:


> I'm not sure how easy it is to get a passport over there but it is not that easy over here, over here to falsify your age like this would require either forged documents or Government participation in the fraud and that is why I believe that China should possibly be disqualified from the games now that this evidence has come forward.



Passports, by international convention if not legal agreement, are government-issued proof of ID. Especially when you're talking about a country as centralized as China, if she turns out to have a faked passport, you can pretty much guarantee the government was behind it, to make China look good.

Jeff already posted the link I was going to, but here's hoping it's a serious investigation, and that they widen the scope a little.


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## Zepp88

Kevan said:


> They did.
> His name is Michael Phelps.





Michael Phelps, the Golden Dolphin.


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## DslDwg

The bottom line is if they cheated they should be disqualified. Not because America would move up the medal podium but because they cheated regardless of who received the silver or bronze. 

Whether or not the Chinese girl had a better performance is really immaterial. The governing body of international gymnastics states that the competitor must turn sixteen the year of the competition. As this didn't used to be the case - is it possible they had some good reason in mind? They have even amended this rule where it used to state that a 15 year old could compete in World Championships the year prior to an Olympic games for qualification purposes. For 2009 it must be 16 regardless. 

So we could argue all day about maybe 13-14 year old female gymnasts are as good as female gymnasts get. Then amend the rules if it's the right thing to do for the athletes and the sport. 

As far as getting a fake passport - it may be difficult in the U.S. but I personally know that in many Asian countries it's as easy as who you know or who you grease.


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## Drew

DslDwg said:


> As this didn't used to be the case - is it possible they had some good reason in mind?
> 
> 
> 
> As far as getting a fake passport - it may be difficult in the U.S. but I personally know that in many Asian countries it's as easy as who you know or who you grease.



1.) Yeah. World-class competitive gymnastics is hell on a prepubescent body. A few gymnasts will outperform older gymnasts, true, but most won't get the chance because they'll develop career-ending injuries fiirst. 

2.) All the more true when you're a state-controlled gymnastics team with strong policical connections in a one-party state, looking for a competitive advantage. If the Chinese thought I could give them a boost in the uneven bars, I could have a Chinese passport saying I was a 16-year-old women this time tomorrow.

[action=Drew]would be almost as believable a 16-year-old girl as He was, too.[/action]


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## Kevan

Drew said:


> .... I could have a Chinese passport saying I was a 16-year-old women this time tomorrow.


That's hot.

(too bad your voice would immediately give it away.  )


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## DslDwg

Drew said:


> 1.) Yeah. World-class competitive gymnastics is hell on a prepubescent body. A few gymnasts will outperform older gymnasts, true, but most won't get the chance because they'll develop career-ending injuries fiirst.
> 
> 2.) All the more true when you're a state-controlled gymnastics team with strong policical connections in a one-party state, looking for a competitive advantage. If the Chinese thought I could give them a boost in the uneven bars, I could have a Chinese passport saying I was a 16-year-old women this time tomorrow.
> 
> [action=Drew]would be almost as believable a 16-year-old girl as He was, too.[/action]


Exactamundo


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## Drew

Kevan said:


> That's hot.
> 
> (too bad your voice would immediately give it away.  )



Hey, I only said I had a MARGINALLY better chance of pulling it off, Kevan. I didn't say I thought I could do it.  

Word is the IOC could rule as early as today, which is another way of saying they rang up China and said, "hey, send us a few documents that agree with you, like another copy of the passport and a quarter million euros, and this can all go away."


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## Kevan

Drew said:


> ...a quarter million euros,


Is that like pesos?


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## Battousai

Kevan said:


> Is that like pesos?








hardly


and about the whole gymnastics thing

I find that the IOC isnt doing and probably wont do anything about this... which is very unfair cos they obviously look younger than what theyre stated at.

Theres been cases of older experienced athletes forging documents to look younger to compete in a younger category ( last time i heard i think it was for the U21 world cup) he was caught and banned. so this goes in the same category

do you think the IOC is partly to blame here for they have shown no signs of any action taken?


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## Kevan

Batt- my line about pesos is from a movie.
(e-rep for the first one to get it)

I'm with ya on the IOC thing. If you harbor a criminal, you're guilty too.


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## noodles

Zak1233 said:


> "If she is truly only 14 then that makes her gold medal-winning performance all the more outstanding and well-deserved.
> Jacinta, London , UK"
> 
> 
> I agree with this 100%, although i know everyone in this thread wont.



*BECAUSE THEY CHEATED.*

Can we make this any clearer to you? It doesn't matter which rule you break, because breaking the rules is grounds for disqualification. No, they are not more well-deserved, their performance is not more outstanding. They are cheaters. I remember the controversy surrounding a 15 year old on the US Women's Gymnastics team, Dominique Moceanu. She turned sixteen the year of the Olympics, and everyone remarked how tiny she was:










There were girls on the Chinese team even smaller than that. Forget about America for a minute, and think about all the teams and individuals in the qualifying rounds who would have advanced, if not for China. Who could have said what the final outcome would have been? Cheating completely and irreparably alters the final outcome, ruining the entire competition. Competitors get cut when they shouldn't. Competitors get elevated to higher metal positions that they didn't really win in competition. It destroys the whole balance of the event. It sends the negative message to children training to be Olympic athletes that cheating is not only an acceptable method, but is the only way to win gold. I cannot stress enough how baffled I am by your viewpoint on this. Tolerance should be non-existent, and retribution should be swift and harsh.

The people I feel most for are the underage girls on the Chinese "Women's" Gymnastic team. They were simply doing what they were told and following their dream in the process. It is their reputation's being dragged through the international press. It is they that hatred is being directed at. It is they who will suffer the hurt and indignity when the metals are stripped away. It is shameful to watch the Chinese government use these poor girls in this way, and completely unsurprising, considering their record on human rights and individuality.


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