# Help me understand Meshuggah



## metaljon (Apr 10, 2015)

Now that I think about it, it seems weird that Meshuggah has eluded me until now. Given their popularity, I set out to listen to a few of their songs to see what the fuss was about. I picked the top three on YouTube, assuming they'd be representative: Demiurge, Break Those Bones Whose Sinews Gave It Motion, and Bleed.

And... I don't get it.

This isn't a criticism. If you like them, awesome. Enjoy. I seriously mean that. But all I hear is endless palm muted single note rhythms. There's no harmony, no melody, no dynamics, nothing interesting going on apart from occasional weird time stuff, and that's only novel the first couple of bars. They tend to drag it out way too long. Odd time stuff is great in short spurts, but it wears its welcome out quick. I'd lump the quarter tonal stuff into the same pot, too.

If you like Meshuggah, what is it about them you find appealing? Is it the stuff I mentioned above? The percussive, repetitive guitar parts? The polyrhythmic stuff? The quarter tonal stuff? I'm honestly interested in understanding why you like them, in a sincere academic sense. I'm not judging your taste in music. I'm sure you'd hate what I listen to, so I don't have a leg to stand on.

Maybe I'm not listening to the right songs. If you'd like to suggest others, I'm wide open.


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## MannyMoonjava (Apr 10, 2015)

I listen to soooo much music, and everything satisfy my different needs. Meshuggah tends to be my main inspiration for rhythm patterns and snare placements. Listening to meshuggah every day for a week gets quite boring, but for really listening and paying attention to the "simple" and sometimes very complex variations of riffs, is what makes Meshuggah to me.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Apr 10, 2015)

Dont think about it too hard. Just find that one cymbal that is always in 4/4 and headbang until you're dizzy.

If you dont like them, thats perfectly fine. Everyone's got a different ear. You gave it a shot which is more than some can say. My personal favorite albums from them are Nothing and Catch 33.


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## asher (Apr 10, 2015)

I would suggest maybe giving Dancers to a Discordant System a shot. It's one of my favorites of theirs because I think it does a better compositional job of staying interesting and covering ground, while feeling like it's developing something cohesive.

Straws Pulled at Random resolves into a very pretty (IMO), nicely melodic place that still keeps its Meshuggahness.

I like most of their tones. I think Jens sounds badass. Things can blend together sometimes, but by and large I love the groove they get going, and I like (trying to) track off or funky times parts.


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## vilk (Apr 10, 2015)

The first time I heard Meshuggah was Catch 33. I had never heard anything like it before (and lets be honest there really isn't anything like Catch 33), but it immediately clicked in my brain. It just immediately registered as awesome. The first thing I loved about it was that it was practically impossible to predict the next part because of the non-repeating patterns.
Also the ambient element of it. It drones and meanders, but ultimately this creates a crazy trance-like atmosphere.

tbh aside from Catch-33 Meshuggah just has good _songs_, usually with ones I like less inbetween. But Catch 33 is a friggin* experience*.


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## Hachetjoel (Apr 10, 2015)

For me it was rational gaze that made me go WHOA. 

But the first time I heard meshuggah I didn't "get it" I went back later and liked it but I know a lot of people who don't. I can't really pick a specific thing about meshuggah I like but I just love turning them on and up banging to the weird rhythms.


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## ZeroS1gnol (Apr 10, 2015)

I think it's just pummeling hard music, and the polyrythms make it a lot more interesting. You should check their older material.


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## asher (Apr 10, 2015)

Also what these guys said while I was typing.

The songs you picked are all newer, too, you might like some of their older stuff better. Catch-33 is a very impressive full length theme development. Chaosphere is balls to the wall intense riffing. Nothing has solid slower tempo super heavy work with maybe a bit more groove- try Rational Gaze. And if you go way back you wind up with Meshuggah style post-thrash (or something) on Destroy Erase Improve and earlier - Future Breed Machine is a standout, and also has some pretty sweet dynamics going on.


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## HoneyNut (Apr 10, 2015)

In my opinion the tracks you've listened to caters to an audience with that acquired taste. Those aren't necessarily the best tracks to get into Meshuggah.

I'll assume you're into metal to begin with. In that case you'll definitely love these tracks:

1. new millenium cyanide christ
2. combustion
3. erroneous manipulation - (very very refined hard thrash!)
4. rational gaze
5. pravus

I like Meshuggah cause they hit hard at the right time, has nothing to do with how academic they are. It's advanced headbanging of sorts.


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## HoneyNut (Apr 10, 2015)

Hachetjoel said:


> For me it was rational gaze that made me go WHOA.
> 
> But the first time I heard meshuggah I didn't "get it" I went back later and liked it but I know a lot of people who don't. I can't really pick a specific thing about meshuggah I like but I just love turning them on and up banging to the weird rhythms.



I think it was on MTV Headbanger's Ball compilation cd. That disk also got me into Arch Enemy in 2003/4. Thank god, cause I couldn't have imagined a life without Dimebag!


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## asher (Apr 10, 2015)

Also, this piano cover (by a talented dude who does awesome metal on piano covers, check out his full length cover of Leviathan!) actually helped me get a much better feel for how Straws develops to its resolution:



He's got some other Meshuggah covers also, maybe worth looking into. Sometimes it just takes a long time for your ear to adjust to a specific band's sound to be able to start parsing out the pieces.


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## vilk (Apr 10, 2015)

But I'm surprised you didn't like Bleed. I think that song is super accessible (if you're into extreme metal) as well as being one of their best songs imo. I love it for the _relentlessness _, it just keeps going as hard and fast the whole 8 minutes until the last note. It's like each time you expect it to cool off and then it doesn't it just becomes that much more intense.


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## HoneyNut (Apr 10, 2015)

asher said:


> Jens sounds badass.



Absolutely, last of a kind!


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## asher (Apr 10, 2015)

vilk said:


> But I'm surprised you didn't like Bleed. I think that song is super accessible (if you're into extreme metal) as well as being one of their best songs imo. I love it for the _relentlessness _, it just keeps going as hard and fast the whole 8 minutes until the last note. It's like each time you expect it to cool off and then it doesn't it just becomes that much more intense.



I could see that relentlessness being tough to get all the way through if they haven't clicked with you, though.


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## Necris (Apr 10, 2015)

They're bad. Done.


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## asher (Apr 10, 2015)

Necris said:


> They're bad. Done.


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## Aion (Apr 10, 2015)

Meshuggah is all about the sheer force of rhythm and the grove.

Meshuggah almost always has a 4/4 background that they're working against, and that's usually what holds the song together. They'll have a really long polymeter and the way the two times change against each other makes the music easy to follow while also being in constant flux. Then the question becomes when do they change the pattern and in what ways do they keep it same.

I also find the note choices in the solos to be really interesting. There's a lot going on in there and it's usually not so easy to figure out specifically what it is.

It's not everyone's bag, they're one of the extreme metal bands that still feels extreme to me. But it's totally a study of rhythm and the occasional careful but strange solos. I associate them a lot with Tool as one of those bands that when I first listened to them I didn't understand their appeal at all, but over time I realized just how much there was going on and that appealed to me. For some, it will never appeal to them no matter what, but there's a density that is uninviting during the first few listens.


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## Necris (Apr 10, 2015)

asher said:


>


I couldn't resist. 

But seriously, to the OP, they most certainly have harmony and melody, and a developing song structure. Their track Electric Red is a good example of that. However I'd certainly agree that a lot of their material can still be an exercise in tedium.

Overall, I'm not a fan either. There is a bit more depth to their music than just rhythmic complexity, but only a bit.


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## rokket2005 (Apr 10, 2015)

I kind of agree with Necris. Destroy Erase Improve and Choasphere are good, and I like those albums, but Nothing and after do nothing for me. What has become an exercise in how heavy something can be is of no interest to me.


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## russmuller (Apr 10, 2015)

You're right, there is no traditional melody to speak of. That fact alone means I can only enjoy it in small doses. It's a different kind of music.

It's all about the groove (for me, anyway). It's taking these monstrously low and heavy sounding instruments and creating all kinds of groove permutations by juxtaposing polyrhythms... while someone rhythmically screams poetry over top of it.

Sometimes those patterns take a long time to cycle around, and sometimes the variation is subtle, but it's the sort of thing that can be very hypnotic.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 10, 2015)

Listen to Contradictions Collapse and the None EP. You're set. 

Might also want to check out Destroy Erase Improve and Chaosphere.


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## metaljon (Apr 10, 2015)

Thanks for the additional song suggestions. I did like New Millennium Cyanide Christ and Straws Pulled at Random better than the first three, but they still didn't quite click with me. I think I figured out what it is. I've come to expect tonal variation in addition to rhythmic variation. Meshuggah seem to favor the latter, and they do it superbly, no one can argue that.



vilk said:


> But I'm surprised you didn't like Bleed. I think that song is super accessible (if you're into extreme metal) as well as being one of their best songs imo. I love it for the relentlessness , it just keeps going as hard and fast the whole 8 minutes until the last note. It's like each time you expect it to cool off and then it doesn't it just becomes that much more intense.


Yeah, I'm into extreme metal--tech death is my thing. I think what I said above about covers it: I like a lot of variety, both tonal and rhythmic. There just wasn't enough variation in the song for me to jump on board. At the start I thought, "Aw, yeah, I could get into this." But then about two to three minutes in it was sounding really repetitive.

So I gave it another spin, this time all the way through. Looks like I turned it off right when they started to change it up. That actually wasn't too bad. They even had a solo in there. I was wondering if they had solos.



Aion said:


> It's not everyone's bag, they're one of the extreme metal bands that still feels extreme to me.


Tried any tech death?


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## wankerness (Apr 10, 2015)

I had the same reaction you did the first few times I heard them. I think I listened to Chaosphere all the way through at least 4 times before it clicked, I've loved them ever since. The riffs are often unique beyond the rhythms, especially on the more frenetic stuff like Chaosphere. You listened to three of their most bland songs, by the way. If you're looking for something less..."monotonous" I'd try the following:

Dancers to a Discordant System
Behind the Sun
In Death is Death
Pineal Gland Optics
Future Breed Machine
Shed (this one most definitely has dynamics!!)
I (skip the first minute and a half!)
Combustion
Pravus
Elastic (the ending drones on for a long time cause it's the end of the album)

These have more "NOTES" than the three you listened to and give a good example of the variety they're capable of. The variety isn't necessary, though. Chaosphere is something that I'm always in the mood for and find entertaining every time. It's constant pummeling but I always get really sucked into the off-kilter grooves and the repetitiveness of it makes it much more effective. If they were like most prog bands where they just are constantly changing the patterns and the drummer is following all the changes with all his hands and everyone's doing unison lines on keyboard/lead etc it's way more gimmicky of a use of odd rhythms than when the songs are built out of really heavy grooves that just are in a kind of polymeter.


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## asher (Apr 10, 2015)

_I_


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## Aion (Apr 10, 2015)

metaljon said:


> Tried any tech death?



Yes. Most of it goes too far into the technical wankery (some of which I do like). Meshuggah has a ton of technical stuff happening while adding enough simpler layers to still make it so the average person can listen to it without having to scratch their heads. When I listen to Meshuggah I'm either going drinking tea, scratching an imaginary beard, and going, "hmmm, yes, interesting rhythm, yes, yes," or I'm banging my head while wondering why everyone everywhere isn't just punching each other. When my friend saw them live he described the audience as, "almost like a tribal, metal ritual." In a totally subjective, unquantifiable way, I feel like they speak to something primal and that's why they feel extreme to me in ways that other bands do not.


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## bhakan (Apr 10, 2015)

I think the monotony of their music is part of their charm. The repetitive yet constantly changing rhythms can be entrancing.


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## wankerness (Apr 10, 2015)

bhakan said:


> I think the monotony of their music is part of their charm. The repetitive yet constantly changing rhythms can be entrancing.



Yeah. The first times I listened to Chaosphere I was like "uhhh...why is this technical" because I didn't get it (I thought technical = fast leads, I was in like 9th grade and listened to Dream Theater). I came back to it a year or two later when I understood time signatures and it just sort of made my head spin but I thought the riffs were still boring. Then one day I listened to it again and about halfway through I realized I was REALLY enjoying it, every song was just like hypnotic rhythmically but also super-heavy and it was making me feel all hyped up, like if I was listening to "Take my Scars" or "War Ensemble" or something. Ever since then, that's pretty much the reaction I have to all of their stuff. Besides "Nothing." I was verrrrry disappointed when that came out and it's still the album of theirs I've gotten into the least.


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## Funky D (Apr 10, 2015)

Future breed Machine was the first Meshuggah song I ever heard and it changed the way I thought about music forever!
So intense and powerful, the whole Destroy erase improve album!
Then Chaosphere even more so. 
I like the drawn out buildups and anticipation for the "hit" where the song takes a turn. Unconventional and new. Like tasting candy for the first time, or something. 
The newer stuff is definitely more monotone and repetitive, enter Nothing. But I'll get down to the older stuff any day.


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## cip 123 (Apr 10, 2015)

Give it a few months and come back to them. I first heard them I was like "Is that it?" I was kind of surprised that this is what everyones raving about, so I left them thinking they weren't for me.


Then I came back a while later, to Demiurge, actually and I seemed to get it something clicked and I was so in to it. 

At times they're totally not for me but there are definitely times when all you need is some Shuggah


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## TheShreddinHand (Apr 10, 2015)

I could definitely see how someone checking out Meshuggah for the first time might not see the uniqueness with all the bands out now that draw influences from Meshuggah.

My bro bought Destroy Erase Improve in 1996 and at the time, there was NOTHING like that we were listening to. It was a holy crap moment for us. And I still think Future Breed Machine is their best song and the one I always recommend to those wanting to be introduced to Meshuggah. The 90s Meshuggah paved the way for a lot of other bands and I still think all their work from this era was their best. Their sound drastically changed when they went to 8s in the 2000s (although I do very much like Obzen).

Give Future Breed Machine and the Destroy Erase Improve album a listen. That's the gateway.


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## coreysMonster (Apr 10, 2015)

Back in the day I heard of Meshuggah because Tool toured with them and Adam Jones talked about their music. I downloaded Rational Gaze and Perpetual Black Second, but they were really low-quality mp3s and I didn't really "get" it. 

Enter Youtube, enter finding this video: 



Boom, hooked for life.


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## PlumbTheDerps (Apr 10, 2015)

Meshuggah's first four or five records are incredibly distinct and varied. Not counting their debut, which is basically mediocre thrash:


Destroy Erase Improve = Insane math metal jazz fusion
Chaosphere = Djenty, thrashy groove...something. I don't even know. Definitely my favorite Meshuggah record.
Nothing = Sloooooow groovy psychadelic djent. 
Catch 33 = Experimental, mechnical drone-y, doom-y death djent
ObZen/Koloss = Extremely similar stylistically, sort of a more generic version of Chaosphere-meets-Nothing. My two least favorites, but still like a 7/10 or so. 

I think ObZen and Koloss, which have the songs you mentioned, are their weakest records and lack a lot of energy, dynamics, and songwriting ability. If you want the best songs they've ever written, it's basically between DEI, Chaosphere and Nothing. 

But at the end of the day, if you don't like fairly repetitive songs with a distinct emphasis on groove, alien-sounding weirdness, and a mechanical feel, you aren't going to like anything they've ever put out. Their records are just different takes on that basic idea. The reason people like them is the sheer ballsiness of the riffs/grooves and the ruthless vibe you get from the music. I'd also add that seeing them live makes you appreciate what they do a lot more.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 10, 2015)

PlumbTheDerps said:


> Not counting their debut, which is basically mediocre thrash:


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## PlumbTheDerps (Apr 10, 2015)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>


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## Hachetjoel (Apr 10, 2015)

And keep in mind everyone likes different things, I have a roommate who has almost the exact same taste in music as me but he hates meshuggah, he calls them mo'chuggah


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## MerlinTKD (Apr 10, 2015)

metaljon said:


> If you like Meshuggah, what is it about them you find appealing? Is it the stuff I mentioned above? The percussive, repetitive guitar parts? The polyrhythmic stuff? The quarter tonal stuff?



Well... yes! 

I'm a drummer who likes to play guitar, so the percussive polymetric rhythmicality is what draws me and keeps me; it reminds me of the stuff we did in college percussion ensemble, or Steve Reich symphonic stuff, but with giant, battleship-on-concrete metalness!


Having said that, Meshuggah didn't click for me until I saw this video:




And it was all in from there!


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## PlumbTheDerps (Apr 10, 2015)

Hachetjoel said:


> he calls them mo'chuggah



Okay, that's ....ing brilliant


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## asher (Apr 10, 2015)

Gimmie some mo'shuggah, baby?


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## metaljon (Apr 10, 2015)

Aion said:


> Yes. Most of it goes too far into the technical wankery (some of which I do like). Meshuggah has a ton of technical stuff happening while adding enough simpler layers to still make it so the average person can listen to it without having to scratch their heads. When I listen to Meshuggah I'm either going drinking tea, scratching an imaginary beard, and going, "hmmm, yes, interesting rhythm, yes, yes," or I'm banging my head while wondering why everyone everywhere isn't just punching each other. When my friend saw them live he described the audience as, "almost like a tribal, metal ritual." In a totally subjective, unquantifiable way, I feel like they speak to something primal and that's why they feel extreme to me in ways that other bands do not.





PlumbTheDerps said:


> But at the end of the day, if you don't like fairly repetitive songs with a distinct emphasis on groove, alien-sounding weirdness, and a mechanical feel, you aren't going to like anything they've ever put out. Their records are just different takes on that basic idea. The reason people like them is the sheer ballsiness of the riffs/grooves and the ruthless vibe you get from the music. I'd also add that seeing them live makes you appreciate what they do a lot more.


I think you guys nailed it. To some extent, I'm into tech death because of the inaccessibility, and because of the sparseness of "groove" found in it. Meshuggah seems big into laying down that groove and keeping it going so people can sort of... "sink into it," I guess would be the way to put it. I can understand that. Sometimes you just want to feel the music. I've never really gravitated toward that kind of thing, but lots of people do, and that's totally cool.



Hachetjoel said:


> And keep in mind everyone likes different things, I have a roommate who has almost the exact same taste in music as me but he hates meshuggah, he calls them mo'chuggah


"Mo'chuggah!" That's great. Imma use that.


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## vilk (Apr 10, 2015)

Jazz and awol yea thats our team
step into the party disrupt the whole scene
when it comes to beats well I'm a fiend 
I like Meshuggah with coffee and cream


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## JustMac (Apr 10, 2015)

It's just music, I don't think some fanboy (me) at a keyboard is going to help you some sort of magic key to meshuggahnlightenment. 


1) Listen to Straws Pulled at Random. All of it. It's always the one I introduce Meshuggah with. 
2) Decide
3) I f*cking hate that "3)??? 4)Profit" meme sh*t people do on the internet, don't you?
4) Yes, I see the irony in the above step. Dammit.


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## lemeker (Apr 10, 2015)

Meshuggah are an acquired taste, certainly not for everyone. When I bought Chaosphere on a request from a buddy of mine, I didn't like it all that much. A few months later, I was at a party with some friends and the host had Destroy Erase Improve, and gave me a copy. Long story short, bam, insta fan. Give it some time.......you might come to find they grow on you.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Apr 10, 2015)

Considering what this thread is, I'm proud of you guys for being so sweet about it


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## isispelican (Apr 10, 2015)

just immerse yourself and flow with it man


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## Double A (Apr 10, 2015)

If you want more melody listen to Destroy Erase Improve.

Meshuggah is definitely a band that needs to grow on you but the first time I heard the first track from DEI (Future Breed Machine) and Ritual from Contradictions Collapse and None I was immediately hooked.

The only album I don't listen to all that much is Catch 33 because it is a process to listen to it.

Also, no one ever mentions I when they talk about Meshaggah recordings which is a giant shame since it is fantastic.


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## gunch (Apr 10, 2015)

do you feel it mr krabs


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## Vres (Apr 10, 2015)

The polymetric stuff (or odd groupings of notes against the 4/4 frame) is what got me into it. I was trying to figure out everything they do, made my own tabs of their songs (basically the whole catalog) and played along. Although cacophonic first, I always knew what their method is, it was just a matter of hearing it the way it "should" be heard, and sometimes it took a long time to really get the groove on certain songs. First song I heard from them was NMCC and I didn't quite understand what was going on, and I wasn't even into metal music back then. When I had figured out the rhythmic aspects of the band, I started to appreciate the guitar tones more than ever. I consider the tone and mix on Re-Nothing to be perfect.


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## DeathChord (Apr 10, 2015)

So many good points of view on Meshuggah, I like the different perspectives and what their music means to everyone that's commented.

For me it's always been more of an aggressive almost primal emotion they seem to invoke in me. Marten Hagstrom made a comment in a vid on the tube, something to the effect that this is a rhythmic exercise as apposed to a riff.

I always liked the older stuff but Koloss for me has some high points like The Demon's Name Is Surveillance, Break Those Bones Whose Sinews Gave It Motion & Swarm in particular. Playing in this style has pushed my boundaries in the area of stamina and focus not that other bands don't accomplish the same I just prefer to do it to Meshuggah tracks.

I have varied tastes in music across many styles but Meshuggah in particular are who influenced me to play ERG's I do own an M80M as my primary instrument and the sum of the parts is what I'm grateful for. A scale length that affords me the proper string gauges and tension, solid tuning & well thought out PU choice along with the wood, weight, balance and aesthetics. 

All said and done Meshuggah has a place for me musically that is unique and stand alone but I can say that for countless other bands....choice is a wonderful thing.


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## vilk (Apr 10, 2015)

If someone doesn't have time to listen to all of Catch 33 I always recommend Shed through Sum, obviously you can cut out the never ending outro.
Shed starts out slow to ease you in, persona non gratae is a micro recap of the first half of the album, dehumanization is extreme and then Sum just makes me freak out


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## yingmin (Apr 10, 2015)

I like the idea of Meshuggah a lot more than I like their actual music. I remember reading an interview with Fredrik and Marten in Guitar World before Nothing came out. They talked about the writing process, and one of them said something along the lines of "in making this record, we didn't care whether all the parts could be played at the same time. We just cared that they sounded cool". With that quote in my mind, the first time I listened to Nothing, I had an overwhelming sense of "that's it?".

I have Nothing and Destroy, Erase, Improve, and I like listening to them occasionally, but I definitely have a hard time wrapping my head around the phenomenon they've become. I think there are a lot of other bands that take the platform that Meshuggah created and do much more interesting, enjoyable things with them. Hell, even Sol Niger Within is more interesting to me.


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## metaljon (Apr 11, 2015)

yingmin said:


> Sol Niger Within


Dude, I don't think you can say that. At least, not with "über alles" in your user title...


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## DXL (Apr 11, 2015)

This thread inspired me to go back and listen to Meshuggah's ObZen and honestly something about them sounds almost psychedelic. The grooves and the low tones are almost hypnotizing and conveys a certain atmosphere that I feel like the djent movement (other than Vildhjarta) failed to convey.


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## PlumbTheDerps (Apr 11, 2015)

yingmin said:


> I like the idea of Meshuggah a lot more than I like their actual music. I remember reading an interview with Fredrik and Marten in Guitar World before Nothing came out. They talked about the writing process, and one of them said something along the lines of "in making this record, we didn't care whether all the parts could be played at the same time. We just cared that they sounded cool". With that quote in my mind, the first time I listened to Nothing, I had an overwhelming sense of "that's it?".
> 
> I have Nothing and Destroy, Erase, Improve, and I like listening to them occasionally, but I definitely have a hard time wrapping my head around the phenomenon they've become. I think there are a lot of other bands that take the platform that Meshuggah created and do much more interesting, enjoyable things with them. Hell, even Sol Niger Within is more interesting to me.



I felt the exact same way, including preferring Sol Niger Within to Meshuggah, until maybe 5 or 6 years ago. I finally sat down one day and tried to learn Rational Gaze and something just sort of clicked with me- understanding what each instrument in the song is doing really helped me to appreciate the band more. But I still don't like ObZen or Koloss


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## OmegaSlayer (Apr 11, 2015)

I'm not the biggest Meshuggah fan but my suggestion is...try to lend a proper CD from some people, I suggest Chaosphere, put it in the stereo, crank the volume to 11 and switch the lights off.
Stand in front of the stereo and don't try to understand, just stay there and be annihilated.
At least, this worked almost 20 years ago.

The point is that we're so saturated with some kind of sonorities and sound violence that we're not fascinated by that like we once were.

Meshuggah in late 90s were something so brutal you had difficulties to cope and conceive.


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## MetalheadMC (Apr 11, 2015)

OmegaSlayer said:


> The point is that we're so saturated with some kind of sonorities and sound violence that we're not fascinated by that like we once were.


 

Agreed 100%.


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## Dutchbooked (Apr 11, 2015)

To say there is no harmony, no melody and no dynamics is absurd. 
They have a huge noise music element that is intentionally obscuring those things.
Those really are the 3 things that separate noise music from just total .....


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## mongey (Apr 12, 2015)

I watched a metal doco series recently and they were talking to Haake . 

He said the very idea of their band is the opposite of melody . even the vocals are looked at like a percussive instrument .

I like meshuggah allot but I do think they need to mix it up a little on the next album .Nothing , Obzen and Kolos are great but I think that idea pool mght not carry another recrod 

that said I'm not big on the ealry stuff. Doesnt sound like them to me


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## Grindspine (Apr 12, 2015)

Although I do like the album Koloss (the one that Demiurge is from), my favorite Meshuggah material is back from Destroy Erase Improve and Chaosphere.

The syncopation on the beats and overall different approach to rhythm than is typically heard in western music is what makes Meshuggah interesting to me.

99% of the music I hear is 4/4 timing, strong beats on the quarter note. Once in a while, 3/4 is used. It is fun to hear something that has that jerky, non predictable rhythm to it. Granted, Meshuggah does really use 4/4 a lot, but the syncopation on the beats varies enough that it does not always sound like 4/4.

Of course I also think that the vocals, drumming, and guitar tone (particularly on the older albums) are archetypal of what good metal production should entail.


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## Shask (Apr 12, 2015)

I still think Destroy Erase Improve and None are their best albums. Still thrashy enough, very dramatic changes in songs, heavy as hell sound and production.

I like the 8 string stuff that came later, but I dont think they have the impact the earlier 7 string stuff had.


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## Hollowway (Apr 12, 2015)

OmegaSlayer said:


> I'm not the biggest Meshuggah fan but my suggestion is...try to lend a proper CD from some people, I suggest Chaosphere, put it in the stereo, crank the volume to 11 and switch the lights off.
> Stand in front of the stereo and don't try to understand, just stay there and be annihilated.
> At least, this worked almost 20 years ago.
> 
> ...




I agree. I think it's sort of like looking at a Jackson Pollack painting, or a Mondrian, or Miro, or any of those others, and saying, "I could have done that." The point is that no one else did it, that they were the first. Looking at Meshuggah now is like looking at Gone With the Wind, and not understanding what the hubbub about the word "damn" being used was. If Meshuggah came out today they wouldn't be regarded as they were when they did come out. Like it or not, it was something relatively original at the time. Today they're just another band in our playlist. But most other bands in our playlist wouldn't sound nearly the same if not for Meshuggah.


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## Quiet Coil (Apr 13, 2015)

Definitely an acquired taste, they redefined groove for me. They're one of the only bands whose new material psyches me up (not necessarily all of it mind you). Hell, some of the sections are downright whimsical (in a good way). As I got more and more into melodic vocals I started to think Jens was the weak link, but he sounded great on Koloss and I came to realize it just wouldn't be 'Shuggah without him.

Hoping for that giddy new music feeling from the next album too!


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## Genome (Apr 13, 2015)

I didn't get them until I saw them live. I spent most of their set (coincidentally the one taped for the Ophidian Trek CD) with my jaw on the floor.


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## MFB (Apr 13, 2015)

Genome said:


> I didn't get them until I saw them live. I spent most of their set (coincidentally the one taped for the Ophidian Trek CD) with my jaw on the floor.



I feel like this is kind of how it happens for most of the people I know; not seeing them live, but just listening to them one day by chance and it clicks. I know for me, I wasn't huge on them but thought the concept was cool (a handful of riffs with syncopation, etc... very primal and rhythmic) so I bought Koloss when it came out - and that was my click. Once I had that little intro into Meshuggah, I was able to go back through their catalogue and find what I liked and didn't like overall.


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## Funky D (Apr 13, 2015)

I also wonder why seek a reason to "get" any type of music? 
I don't "get" country music, but I don't seek reasons to get into it.


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## ryanougrad (Apr 13, 2015)

Put Bleed on repeat, you'll get it. Seriously though, like others have said, see them live. I had listened to them a few times, never really got into it, then I went and saw them live. That started me going back and listening to albums, now I appreciate what they do and enjoy it. Obzen brought me in, but Catch 33 on vinyl kept me there.


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## wankerness (Apr 14, 2015)

Funky D said:


> I also wonder why seek a reason to "get" any type of music?
> I don't "get" country music, but I don't seek reasons to get into it.



I do it when people who are into other things I love really love something that I don't get. I figure I must be missing something and I will absolutely spend effort trying to understand what's good about it. Dismissing everything you don't like immediately and ignoring what anyone else thinks about anything is a silly way to go through life. I guess it's totally METAL though.


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## metaljon (Apr 14, 2015)

wankerness said:


> I do it when people who are into other things I love really love something that I don't get. I figure I must be missing something and I will absolutely spend effort trying to understand what's good about it. Dismissing everything you don't like immediately and ignoring what anyone else thinks about anything is a silly way to go through life. I guess it's totally METAL though.


That was exactly my angle on it. Lots of people who are into extreme metal love Meshuggah, and since I like extreme metal, but Meshuggah didn't click with me, I wanted to better understand what it is that people find appealing about the band.

I suppose I could've just said, "This sucks. Whoever likes this is dumb." But that would've been ignorant and disingenuous.


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## SSK0909 (Apr 14, 2015)

I know what you mean.

They never clicked with me either. For me, it's the weird time signatures that ruin it. I'm definately a 4/4 guy and Meshuggahs beats always seem "wobbly" to me. Like a car with egg shaped wheels. Instead of hammering out of the freeway you just get a weird, bouncy ride


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## gorthul (Apr 14, 2015)

IMO the main appeal of Meshuggah is the mixture of ambience and sheer brutality.
Catch 33 is probably the one most atmospheric and dark album I've ever heard, and at the same time it is also incredibly heavy. The repetitive, crushing guitar riffs followed by ambient droning leading to massive build-ups climaxing in super heavy breakdowns...just awesome.

If you want to get into Meshuggah I would recommend Catch 33, Chaosphere, Nothing and Obzen.
Koloss was pretty meh in my opinion, so I would skip this album.


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## EmaDaCuz (Apr 14, 2015)

SSK0909 said:


> I know what you mean.
> 
> They never clicked with me either. For me, it's the weird time signatures that ruin it. I'm definately a 4/4 guy and Meshuggahs beats always seem "wobbly" to me. Like a car with egg shaped wheels. Instead of hammering out of the freeway you just get a weird, bouncy ride



This x100000. 
I remember back in the 90s when DEI came out... I was shocked. Never heard anything like that before, but in a "negative" way. Like "what the hell is wrong here? Something is off". 20 years later, I still can't digest them. There are some good moments here and there, I get the whole point about the hypnotic atmospheres, the rhythm-centric structure... but I will never play a Meshuggah song on purpose. If it is on the radio, I'm fine with it. But nothing more.


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## crg123 (Apr 14, 2015)

I actually use to hate them, I use to think it just sounded like odd rhythms repeated at endless cycles. It annoyed me that I couldn't figure out why people liked them. One day I just decided to listen to Catch 33 all the way through and by the end it made sense. Just don't think about it too much, just bob your head and make your 'Shuggah face haha. 

The cool thing to do is watch how the riffs evolve over time. Its almost funny how they trick you into thinking the sequence will repeat when a lot of times it never does, at least perfectly. They're something else when it comes to rhythms.

Edit: For instance

The second part of this Video In Death is Death (@4:30) is the part that made me go woah the first time I heard it.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 14, 2015)

Doesn't Meshuggah mean "crazy" in yiddish? You're not supposed to understand...


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## asher (Apr 14, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Doesn't Meshuggah mean "crazy" in yiddish? You're not supposed to understand...



Yep.


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## KFW (Apr 15, 2015)

Yeah, I agree that Meshuggah has to be considered for their time period. It was literally scary to me in 1998-2000 or whenever I bought one of their albums. It's actually kind of funny how delayed their influence was. They are one of those bands where you can objectively say they were ahead of their time.

My first impression when I heard them--it was the first super heavy music I heard that wasn't cheesy nu-metal, 80s, or blues influenced. 

But honestly I only like a handful of there songs. When I listen to them, it's more because I want to just hear something heavy and consistent.


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## Low Baller (Apr 24, 2015)

What a lot of people are saying I agree with especially really understanding meshuggah after like the third time you heard them. When I finally understood them I remember thinking they're sound is so eclectic and not at the same time. It may sound like repetitive heavy riffs but their music is punch you in the face heavy, it grooves, and it's weirdly relaxing and hypnotic. Their solos and choice of notes are unique very chromatic.

I feel like they are either super organized with their thoughts and very theory oriented or...Just riff away throw them together however and through trial and error find a cool combination. What I love most about this band is they are like a ying and yang of simplicity and complexity.

As much as I love technical metal sometimes it nice to not have it spoon fed to you or shoved in your face like "hey look look at my 200bpm 32nd note sweeps" you get it it's technical. But sometimes it nice to just listen to a groovy, heavy riff and then you listen closer and realize they are doing some technical stuff. Meshuggah is really one of a kind in the hidden jem sense you actually have to get to know them to understand their genius as I said they don't spoon feed it too you.


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## fps (Apr 3, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> I agree. I think it's sort of like looking at a Jackson Pollack painting, or a Mondrian, or Miro, or any of those others, and saying, "I could have done that." The point is that no one else did it, that they were the first. Looking at Meshuggah now is like looking at Gone With the Wind, and not understanding what the hubbub about the word "damn" being used was. If Meshuggah came out today they wouldn't be regarded as they were when they did come out. Like it or not, it was something relatively original at the time. Today they're just another band in our playlist. But most other bands in our playlist wouldn't sound nearly the same if not for Meshuggah.



I don't think they're just another band, I still don't feel any other band has managed to create the atmosphere Meshuggah creates. The US has added its own pop and slam elements to the sound with various bands, but they still sound like the ultimate evolution of the sound they began, to me. 

And Genome, I was a little nervous about seeing them live on their 25th anniversary tour. I thought it might just be a pulverising experience. But it bordered on the spiritual. And they played literally everything I wanted to hear. It was amazing.

One other point on their complexity and what "each instrument is doing" though - the guitars and bass are doing the same thing most of the time. I don't hear much harmony in the riffage or interplay in the guitars, apart from the leads. Or am I missing something?


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## extendedsolo (Apr 3, 2016)

I think sometimes music goes beyond any cerebral dissection as far as liking it. Art by and large is something that connects with you on an emotional level whatever it may be. It doesn't always have to make you want to party (new country, hair metal), or sad, or happy, angry etc. I think just finding how meshuggah connects with you is the idea. You can't force yourself to think "yeah well it marks off these things on my checkbox therefore I like them" Music/art goes much deeper than that. To say "help me get into x or y band" is completely missing the point of art. I think wording the question as "help me expand my horizons" would be a more apt question. 

That being said it's awesome that you do! It's not easy as it took me many years to really get what other kinds of music were about. I listen to them with a different set of ears and when getting into a kind of music you have to just turn your brain "off" in a way and just let it wash over you. Yes Meshuggah can be dissected on a technical level, but so can any band. It just adds another layer. Letting it just be this moody, brooding, abrasive pummeling music would be enough for me. Not every band does it the same way, but meshuggahs way is certainly very characteristic or identifiable. I don't know of a single person that likes music and says "well it's because they use phrygian scale!" Getting into a band is just something that takes time sometimes for you to connect with them.

That being said, I sincerely believe that it's possible for anyone to get into any kind of "adult" music (cutting out nursery rhymes, kid songs, etc). It's a matter of your environment and associating positive memories with a certain music. It's why things like EDM, rap, hip hop, country are the predominant types of music right now. Those are by and large "party music" and have a lot of positive emotions and memories mixed in. Of course people are going to like music that reminds them of that. I have a friend who is a music teacher now, and never liked symphonic/classical/whatever kind of music. Yes he learned to love it on a technical level, but so many positive experiences are associated with listening/performing that it was inevitable that he would love it. Not to mention his environment of having others constantly talk about or be listening to that music. 

tl;dr music as an art is too complex to consciously "get into".


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## Korbain (Apr 3, 2016)

They have some pretty cool lyrics, and the music has this crushing head banging groove to it at times that i just really enjoy it. It's just good hard out metal to me.

They write some interesting rhythm's obviously as well, i think they're a pretty talented band. Their sound is unique as well.

I really love the clean/delay ambient stuff they do


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## Floppystrings (Apr 3, 2016)

The day when we all "got" Meshuggah.

It's all about the groove. Imagine a funk bass player playing with a gospel drummer.


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## wankerness (Apr 3, 2016)

fps said:


> I don't think they're just another band, I still don't feel any other band has managed to create the atmosphere Meshuggah creates. The US has added its own pop and slam elements to the sound with various bands, but they still sound like the ultimate evolution of the sound they began, to me.
> 
> And Genome, I was a little nervous about seeing them live on their 25th anniversary tour. I thought it might just be a pulverising experience. But it bordered on the spiritual. And they played literally everything I wanted to hear. It was amazing.
> 
> One other point on their complexity and what "each instrument is doing" though - the guitars and bass are doing the same thing most of the time. I don't hear much harmony in the riffage or interplay in the guitars, apart from the leads. Or am I missing something?



Are you celebrating the one year anniversary of this thread a couple weeks early? 

There definitely isn't much harmony or interplay, that's for sure. There are occasionally some odd things like the great little panning trick/fill in...some song I can't remember. Something off Chaosphere! The one solitary place I can recall the two rhythm guitars doing "harmony" is about 9:10 into I where one guitar starts playing the high note in the riff a half step off from the other.


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## bostjan (Apr 3, 2016)

I see them as a cool band with a huge following here. Many here see them as gods or such. I really enjoyed their older stuff, but kinda lost it on the downtuned stuff.

Never apologize for your tastes.


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