# Star Wars (A nerdy observation)



## YYZ2112 (Apr 7, 2008)

I was watching Episodes 1, 2 and 3 this weekend and I cant believe how bad they are. When I saw them in the theater I was just so excited that we were finally getting the whole story but in a way I wish Lucas just stopped at Return of the Jedi. I dont know what I dislike more, the acting or the story itself. 

To me the original three had it all. Good acting, great story and just enough technology for decent special effects, albeit a bit bated now but still very impressive all these years later.


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## TomAwesome (Apr 7, 2008)

Yeah, I think that's more or less the opinion most people have concerning episodes I-III vs. IV-VI.


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## RickBwarn (Apr 7, 2008)

The acting in IV V VI ... is nothing to be impressed by really. The only thing that bothers me about I II III is watching them and then watching IV V VI.

Where did all this power that Vader had in III disappear to in IV,
The change in special effects from III to IV is numbing, you get over it eventually, but it's disappointing.

I really don't like how little power Vader has in IV V VI.

I am happy to see lucas arts is putting out the filler story in form of a video game (Force Unleashed).


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## SevenDeadly (Apr 7, 2008)

If you fell into lava, your power would be diminished too.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Apr 7, 2008)

i thought epi 1 was a weak filler, but 2 and 3 were pretty damn good. i dont think that 1,2 and 3 live up to the expectation of the orginals, but they never could. There are so many star wars fanboys out there that just would not be satisfied no matter how good the new ones are, simply because they arnt the old ones. I look at it as getting to continue the adventure and learn more about the galaxy. i read all the books, and to be honost with ya, the movie story line is pretty boreing compared to some of the cool books stories that let you get to experience the SW universe from different perspectives

i also like the fact that, this story is in your imagination, and yet people cant imagine that perhapse, 4 5 and 6 were made like, 30 FUCKIN YEARS ago, so they are not going to look like the new ones, so use your imagination to beef up the older ones. 

And as to vaders power. if you read the books and pay attention to the movies, there is a good explanitation of just about every thing you can think of. In the 1 2 and 3 episodes, there were tons of jedi, the force was strong through out the galaxy. in 4 5 and 6, there are no jedi barley, therefor, the force was over all weaker.


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## Groff (Apr 7, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> i thought epi 1 was a weak filler, but 2 and 3 were pretty damn good. i dont think that 1,2 and 3 live up to the expectation of the orginals, but they never could. There are so many star wars fanboys out there that just would not be satisfied no matter how good the new ones are, simply because they arnt the old ones.





I didn't quite like the first one, altho Padme looked the hottest in that one... But I did like 2 and 3, a lot.

They certainly don't have the magic of the original films, because of the legacy that was in place, but they were still great films. Better than those stupid Tyler Perry movies...


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## YYZ2112 (Apr 7, 2008)

RickBwarn said:


> The acting in IV V VI ... is nothing to be impressed by really.



I'll take Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness over the dude that played Aniken any day.


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## kung_fu (Apr 7, 2008)

I didn't see episode III until a few months ago. I thought it was great, right up there with the original three. Phantam Menace and Attack of the Clones were considerably weaker (especially Menace, Clones wasn't terrible). I wouldn't even blame Jar Jar, I'd blame Jake Lloyd ("Jingle all the Way" kid) PUT THE COOKIE DOWN!!!


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## Kotex (Apr 7, 2008)

I guess I'm pretty much alone, but I like (love) them all the same.


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## YYZ2112 (Apr 7, 2008)

kung_fu said:


> I didn't see episode III until a few months ago. I thought it was great, right up there with the original three. Phantam Menace and Attack of the Clones were considerably weaker (especially Menace, Clones wasn't terrible). I wouldn't even blame Jar Jar, I'd blame Jake Lloyd ("Jingle all the Way" kid) PUT THE COOKIE DOWN!!!



That's pretty much how I would rank them too. I feel exactly the same way about Jake Lloyd too. He really killed that movie. It felt like a childrens movie at times and Jar Jar didn't help.

I actully really liked episode III in the movies especially when all the Jedi's are killed off but after seeing the DVD it didn't hold up to me. 

I wouldn't mind if George made episode III 1/2 because I thought episode III was just getting good right at the end and I wanted it to keep going.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Apr 7, 2008)

YYZ2112 said:


> I'll take Harrison Ford and Alec Guinness over the dude that played Aniken any day.



i thought christian hadyen or whatever his name was, was pretty fuckin good, he was very good and happy looking, but when he was pissed, he pulled off that part good too.


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## Kotex (Apr 7, 2008)

YYZ2112 said:


> That's pretty much how I would rank them too. I feel exactly the same way about Jake Lloyd too. He really killed that movie. It felt like a childrens movie at times and Jar Jar didn't help.
> 
> I actully really liked episode III in the movies especially when all the Jedi's are killed off but after seeing the DVD it didn't hold up to me.
> 
> I wouldn't mind if George made episode III 1/2 because I thought episode III was just getting good right at the end and I wanted it to keep going.



Wasn't it originally supposed to be a children's movie (I never saw it like that but I think I remember Lucas saying something like that on the extras DVD).


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## YYZ2112 (Apr 7, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> i thought christian hadyen or whatever his name was, was pretty fuckin good, he was very good and happy looking, but when he was pissed, he pulled off that part good too.



I just thought he was too whiney at times and I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the writing, but I just think they could have done better than him. Just my .02.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Apr 7, 2008)

i'm willing to bet that with episode 1, they were trying to get as many children in this generation into star wars, by making it kid friendly, they could double the amount of people watching it and also reboost their marketing of toys and what not 

p.s. - the kid in epi 1, WAS a horrible actor, i mean, i know hes like 10, but still, they could have cast a much better child actor


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## darren (Apr 7, 2008)

I grew up with Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. These are the movies that shaped my childhood and sparked countless hours of imagination and play.

When Lucas started tinkering with them, it started ruining my own vision and imagination that filled in all the gaps around the stories. And then Episodes I, II and III completely slaughtered the whole idea. Yes, it was neat getting the back-story of one of moviedom's most notorious villains, but as movies, they were pretty sad. Good actors, badly directed.

What i loved about the original three was that it was quite possibly the first time a vision of "the future" was dirty, broken and imperfect.


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## YYZ2112 (Apr 7, 2008)

Kotex said:


> Wasn't it originally supposed to be a children's movie (I never saw it like that but I think I remember Lucas saying something like that on the extras DVD).



Really??? I guess as a whole these movies are probably aimed towards a younger demographic anyway but for some of the older folks here who were kids when the first ones came out, I remained a fan throughout.


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## YYZ2112 (Apr 7, 2008)

darren said:


> I grew up with Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. These are the movies that shaped my childhood and sparked countless hours of imagination and play.
> 
> When Lucas started tinkering with them, it started ruining my own vision and imagination that filled in all the gaps around the stories. And then Episodes I, II and III completely slaughtered the whole idea. Yes, it was neat getting the back-story of one of moviedom's most notorious villains, but as movies, they were pretty sad. Good actors, badly directed.
> 
> What i loved about the original three was that it was quite possibly the first time a vision of "the future" was dirty, broken and imperfect.



Thank you..... Perfect. 
If I only could express myself like that in words....


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## Vegetta (Apr 7, 2008)

I liked episode 3 a good deal (Dooku gets beheaded, epic space battle, General Grievous & the final fight scene all rocked)


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## Kotex (Apr 7, 2008)

Yeah, III was ace.
YYZ2112, yeah if I remember right thats what he said. I mean, I used to watch them with my dad when I was little (the originals). So in a way, even though I wasn't there when they first came out. I grew up with them too.


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## kung_fu (Apr 7, 2008)

YYZ2112 said:


> I just thought he was too whiney at times and I'm sure a lot of that has to do with the writing, but I just think they could have done better than him. Just my .02.



I don't totally disagree but the same can be said about Mark Hamil. Remember "But I wanted to go to Toshi's station to pick up some power converters" 



darren said:


> What i loved about the original three was that it was quite possibly the first time a vision of "the future" was dirty, broken and imperfect.



I was gunna jump all over you for saying this til I noticed the quotes


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## Stitch (Apr 7, 2008)

RickBwarn said:


> The acting in IV V VI ... is nothing to be impressed by really. The only thing that bothers me about I II III is watching them and then watching IV V VI.
> 
> Where did all this power that Vader had in III disappear to in IV,
> The change in special effects from III to IV is numbing, you get over it eventually, but it's disappointing.
> ...



i assume you are about 15?



7 Strings of Hate said:


> i thought epi 1 was a weak filler, but 2 and 3 were pretty damn good. i dont think that 1,2 and 3 live up to the expectation of the orginals, but they never could. There are so many star wars fanboys out there that just would not be satisfied no matter how good the new ones are, simply because they arnt the old ones. I look at it as getting to continue the adventure and learn more about the galaxy. i read all the books, and to be honost with ya, the movie story line is pretty boreing compared to some of the cool books stories that let you get to experience the SW universe from different perspectives
> 
> i also like the fact that, this story is in your imagination, and yet people cant imagine that perhapse, 4 5 and 6 were made like, 30 FUCKIN YEARS ago, so they are not going to look like the new ones, so use your imagination to beef up the older ones.
> 
> And as to vaders power. if you read the books and pay attention to the movies, there is a good explanitation of just about every thing you can think of. In the 1 2 and 3 episodes, there were tons of jedi, the force was strong through out the galaxy. in 4 5 and 6, there are no jedi barley, therefor, the force was over all weaker.



Fucking exactly dude. I couldn't have fucking said it better myself.

If the films were just like the old ones we'd all have been annoyed nothing had changed, and people getting into it just wouldn't see the appeal. But the way they are, they let down a lot of people just wanting the original trilogy with a new storyline.

And yeah, I'm the biggest Star Wars whore ever. I haven't touched anything involving the Yuazhan Vong onwards, because I don't have a fucking clue where to start, but man, I loved the uniiverse. I was such a geek for it, I did my Primary School project on the ships in the universe, complete with technical diagrams and useless trivia of what books they featured in and whatnot. I was like nine or 10.  Then I discovered they had already made one, and I digested it all.


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## Stitch (Apr 7, 2008)

darren said:


> I grew up with Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. These are the movies that shaped my childhood and sparked countless hours of imagination and play.
> 
> When Lucas started tinkering with them, it started ruining my own vision and imagination that filled in all the gaps around the stories. And then Episodes I, II and III completely slaughtered the whole idea. Yes, it was neat getting the back-story of one of moviedom's most notorious villains, but as movies, they were pretty sad. Good actors, badly directed.
> 
> What i loved about the original three was that it was quite possibly the first time a vision of "the future" was dirty, broken and imperfect.



Lucas should never been allowed to direct them. That was where it all went south...


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## Kevan (Apr 7, 2008)

No I, II, III = No Natalie Portman.

FIN


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## TomAwesome (Apr 8, 2008)

Kevan said:


> No I, II, III = No Natalie Portman.
> 
> FIN



Good point! It was nice seeing the back story of Leia's intense hotness.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Apr 8, 2008)

Stitch said:


> I haven't touched anything involving the Yuazhan Vong onwards, because I don't have a fucking clue where to start


 
Try the dark nest triliogy of books, its a bit after the vong, but its a awesome triliogy. They have even gone 100 years past the battle of yavin with the "legacy" comic series, but being as its a comic book, they kind of fuck up the story so comic book fans will stay interested. I would not reccomend them. But they have been releasing tons of new books latley and they are pretty much all stellar. I'm a huge star wars whore too. A good portion of my money for the last 5 years or so has been from making and customizing the 4 inch and 12 inch figures. I actually make a killing. Then i buy gear and the dealers make a killing  hence the cycle continues


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## darren (Apr 8, 2008)

Stitch said:


> Lucas should never been allowed to direct them. That was where it all went south...



Lucas' smartest decision with the original trilogy was to bring in other directors. The best in the series is still The Empire Strikes Back. 

And personally, i'd rather see Natalie Portman in a movie with a good script and good directing. She was horrible in all three Star Wars movies she was in.


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## Naren (Apr 9, 2008)

I mentioned this in another thread, but I think that fanboys are only deceiving themselves when they think that the new 3 have horrible dialogue and the old 3 don't. If you've ever seen the original 3, they all have wretched dialogue. I would say that the dialogue in the first 3 was even worse than in the new 3, with the exception of the dialogue between Anakin and Padme which was worse than anything in the original 3. Storylinewise, as well, the new ones weren't bad. I really disliked the first one, but that's about it.

This is how I would rate them in order from best to worse:
5 - Empire Strikes Back
6 - Return of the Jedi
3 - Revenge of the Sith
4 - A New Hope
2 - Attack of the Clones
1 - Phantom Menace

And I actually thought that Attack of the Clones was a pretty good movie with a few flaws.

Phantom Menace is the only one that sucked and even it had a lot of cool light saber scenes, such as the fight between Darth Maul and Obi Wan and Qui Gon.

My main disappointment was that I wanted Anakin to be somewhat evil from the very beginning and then just grow more dark, sinister, ruthless, vicious, and heartless as he went on. But it didn't go that way. He was more like an angsty teen gone too far.

Now I love the original 3 because I grew up with them and I've seen them all a zillion times. I have most of the dialogue memorized. I also prefer the world of the old ones where there are no jedi and Luke is learning an ancient art that only him, his evil father, and the evil emperor know. I also liked the actors better. In all cases, I'd say the original 3 are far superior, but I think that fans are WAY WAY too hard on the new 3.



darren said:


> What i loved about the original three was that it was quite possibly the first time a vision of "the future" was dirty, broken and imperfect.



Actually there were quite a few distopian films with dirty, broken , imperfect movies before the first Star Wars (1977) - because even though it's not really the future, it's "futuristic." Soylent Green (1973) is one that comes immediately to mind.


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## YYZ2112 (Apr 9, 2008)

Wow Naren, I can't believe how far down "A New Hope" is on your rankings. 

I do agree though, Empire is the best of all the Episodes. I love how dark and serious this one is.


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## Naren (Apr 9, 2008)

YYZ2112 said:


> Wow Naren, I can't believe how far down "A New Hope" is on your rankings.
> 
> I do agree though, Empire is the best of all the Episodes. I love how dark and serious this one is.



Of the original trilogy, it was always my least favorite because it was just so incredibly simple, didn't have anywhere near as interesting story as ESB or RotJ, had the least amount of action in the entire series (old and new), and because I thought the atmosphere and feel of episode 5 and 6 was better than the atmosphere and feel of episode 4. I put Revenge of the Sith above A New Hope because I thought that RotS was the real stand out film of the new trilogy, much better than Attack of the Clones and infinitely better than that crappy Phantom Menace. It had some really awesome fight scenes and was getting incredibly cool near the end. So, overall, I had to rate it higher than A New Hope.

A New Hope was definitely the most influential film in the series - because it was the very first one and caused a lot ripples when it came out, but I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi.


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## Randy (Apr 9, 2008)

Naren said:


> My main disappointment was that I wanted Anakin to be somewhat evil from the very beginning and then just grow more dark, sinister, ruthless, vicious, and heartless as he went on. But it didn't go that way. He was more like an angsty teen gone too far.



Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of the "Oh, little Any!" aspect of Ep. 1, and the "angsty teen" of Ep. 2. He got pretty evil, pretty quick by Ep. 3 though... much better film.


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## sakeido (Apr 9, 2008)

Naren said:


> This is how I would rate them in order from best to worse:
> 5 - Empire Strikes Back
> 6 - Return of the Jedi
> 3 - Revenge of the Sith
> ...



I'd have to go 
5. Empire Strikes Back
4. A New Hope
3. Revenge of the Sith
6. Return of the Jedi
2. Attack of the Clones
1. Phantom Menace

A New Hope created an entirely new genre of movie, it was a huge accomplishment, and invented the whole concept of a summer blockbuster. Empire was all around the best, and I thought Jedi was quite weak since I hated the ewoks and even though there was that epic fight with Darth Vader and the Emperor, the whole business on Endor was boring. The first two just sucked all around. 
I understand why George Lucas wanted to make it appeal to the kids again, and it certainly made him a huge amount of money, but just once I would like for a movie to revisit one an old property and then grow it up to appeal to the same people who liked it the first time around.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Apr 9, 2008)

a new hope was a little tough though, because if you think about it, empire gets didnt have to have an ending, they were able to start where ever they wanted and they didnt have to end it.

They were lucky to get a new hope out there, and if there was(pun intended) any hope of making the others, it had to be a complete, stand alone story, it had to be the complete package, all the following movies wernt at that disadvantage because they had already hooked their audience


know wut i mean vern?


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## Clydefrog (Apr 9, 2008)

I think George fucked up by dragging the whole Anakain-into-Vader thing over three movies. It should have gone like this:

Introduce Anakin. K, check. 
Build him up, backstory, etc. Check.
Turn him to the dark side halfway through the trilogy.
Second half of the trilogy is the building of the empire and the hunting down of every last Jedi.

Essentially it would be an intergalactic chase movie. Mmm.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Apr 9, 2008)

Clydefrog said:


> I think George fucked up by dragging the whole Anakain-into-Vader thing over three movies. It should have gone like this:
> 
> Introduce Anakin. K, check.
> Build him up, backstory, etc. Check.
> ...




thats one of the things the books and comic books do


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## Clydefrog (Apr 9, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> thats one of the things the books and comic books do



But it would have been epic in film form.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Apr 9, 2008)

i know, but there is such a vast archive of books and material, they never could have done it justice, they need to stick to the main story, for people who dont read the books, you have no idea how in detail they go into the star wars universe. Tons and tons of stuff that has nothing to do with anyone even in the movies


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## Clydefrog (Apr 9, 2008)

Then maybe a TV series would be enough to do it justice. I've always thought that epic mini-series would be awesome in the Star Wars universe.

We'll have to see how it actually turns out when they do drop the TV show.


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## TomAwesome (Apr 9, 2008)

Wasn't there already a TV series?


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## bostjan (Apr 9, 2008)

I thought that the new movies weren't as bad as the fans made them out to be and that the original trilogy is not as good as the fans make it out to be.

But then, my love of everything Star Wars peaked when I was about seven years old. Since then, I've been attracted to far more nerdy things, like Wing Commander games as a teenager.


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## Vince (Apr 9, 2008)

The be-all-end-all Star Wars story:








Everything else is just a movie 



but, if I had to pick a top 3, here would be my other 2:













[action=Vince]slinks off to the nerd corner now[/action]


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## gaunten (Apr 10, 2008)

how can you forget holiday special?
with most of the original cast from the old movies (ford, hamill etc.)
watch that movie, and you will most certainly LOVE episodes I-III after that. the funny thing is that most downloadable versions of it on the bay and so are shitty quality converted Betamax tapes since it only was a TV movie, and lucas refuses to release it on DVD.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Apr 10, 2008)

vince, did you see they have released a second darth bane book? i just read it, it was pretty cool


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## Mastodon (Apr 10, 2008)

Vince said:


> The be-all-end-all Star Wars story:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



agreed.


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## Vince (Apr 11, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> vince, did you see they have released a second darth bane book? i just read it, it was pretty cool



yes! My wife bought it for me just after Christmas. I was looking forward to that for quite sometime. It's actually a lot better than I thought it would be, considering Karpyshyn only had 6 months to write it. The fights were epic and I love how the thought bomb from the first book created the ice planet Hoth. Badass storytelling IMO.


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## bigheadood (May 28, 2008)

I like them all. But I rank them like this.

1. Empire Strikes Back
1. Return of the Jedi
1. Revenge of the Sith
2. Attack of the Clowns
3. Phantom Menace
3. A New Hope

Mark Hamill was whinier than Hayden, but they both improved as the story went on.
The only thing I was disappointed with was that Vader did not fight after being stuck in black suit. I REALLY wanted to see a new VADER fight scene.


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## Kevan (May 28, 2008)

"_...all 'Jedi' had was a bunch of Muppets_".
- Dante Hicks.


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## TomAwesome (May 28, 2008)

Muppets rule. Duh.

Edit: Oh, and I think Dante is the one who said that.


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## Durero (May 29, 2008)

Kotex said:


> I guess I'm pretty much alone, but I like (love) them all the same.


No I'm definitely with you here, I love them all.



bostjan said:


> I thought that the new movies weren't as bad as the fans made them out to be and that the original trilogy is not as good as the fans make it out to be.




I think the dialogue writing is consistently weak throughout the series. Lucas always says he's a visual storyteller and writing dialogue is not his thing.

It's the overall progression of the story from 1 to 6 that's so enjoyable to me.


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## Kevan (May 29, 2008)

TomAwesome said:


> Edit: Oh, and I think Dante is the one who said that.


Thanks. Fixed.
A small bout of Mental Pause there.


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## Zepp88 (May 29, 2008)

Kevan said:


> "_...all 'Jedi' had was a bunch of Muppets_".
> - Dante Hicks.



And Carrie Fischer in that outfit. "Jedi" wins.


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## TomAwesome (May 29, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> And Carrie Fischer in that outfit. "Jedi" wins.



Good point! Maybe I should bust that old desktop wallpaper back out.. hrmm...


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## Zepp88 (May 29, 2008)

'80s Carrie Fischer


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## TomAwesome (May 29, 2008)

Well, '77-'81 anyway. I haven't seen much of her since then. She looked good in Blues Brothers, but that was pre-Jedi.


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## Kotex (May 29, 2008)

Yeah, she ain't lookin' too good now


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## BigM555 (May 29, 2008)

Kotex said:


> Yeah, she ain't lookin' too good now



Oh come on, be nice!






Got MILF?


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## D-EJ915 (May 29, 2008)

she looks like a female Ozzy in that 2nd pic o__O I think it's the eyebrows in comparison with her darkass eyeliner


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## TomAwesome (May 29, 2008)

She really doesn't look all that bad for her age, but I'm not into the whole GMILF thing.


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## YYZ2112 (May 29, 2008)

I'm going to pretend I didn't see that current picture of Carrie and just remember her in that little skimpy outfit in Return of the Jedi.....


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## playstopause (May 29, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> '80s Carrie Fischer















Me likes Carrie.


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## Chris (May 29, 2008)

I loved EP3.


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## DevinShidaker (Jun 14, 2008)

I heard that Jake Lloyd is a drug dealer in chicago now...if that's true...hilarious.

and I hated the special effects in episodes I-III...Like seriously George...Use actors in suits instead of CGI stormtroopers god dammit.


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## kung_fu (Jun 15, 2008)

I recently watched Phantom Menace again. The Yoda puppet in that movie is absolutely terrible.



envenomedcky said:


> and I hated the special effects in episodes I-III...Like seriously George...Use actors in suits instead of CGI stormtroopers god dammit.



I can live with CGI storm troopers and some of the few other characters that actually seemed sort of realistic and not so cartoony. The animated version of Yoda for instance looked far superior to the puppet in Phantom Menace. I hate when there is CGI interaction with the actual actors as it just doesn't look realistic (most of the time atleast). I might as well be watching Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

This reminds me, I also watched the special editions of the original trilogy again recently. The new song and dance performance in Jabba's palace is absolutely terrible. Not only was the song worse than the original one, but the animations were way too over the top and cartoony. At least he didn't mess with the Cantina band in A New Hope.
And also, why did they get rid of the song the ewoks originally sang at the end? . The added tongues/tentacles on the sarlac however were quite awesome.



envenomedcky said:


> I heard that Jake Lloyd is a drug dealer in chicago now...if that's true...hilarious.










Could be, he couldn't look much sketchier. I know he does the Star Wars conventions still.


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