# Fishman pickups, why so much hatred now?



## soldierkahn (Jun 28, 2022)

Maybe ive lost touch with keeping my thumb on the pulse of the pickups world, but why has there been what seems to be an abrupt reversal of public opinions on Fishman Fluences? Why are so many people hating on them now?


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## STRHelvete (Jun 28, 2022)

Where?


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## ArtDecade (Jun 28, 2022)

Last year, Fishman Pickups tried to pick up my wife when we were having drinks after a show. Bastards.


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## MFB (Jun 28, 2022)

soldierkahn said:


> Maybe ive lost touch with keeping my thumb on the pulse of the pickups world, but why has there been what seems to be an abrupt reversal of public opinions on Fishman Fluences? Why are so many people hating on them now?



Because they have one sound, and they threw money at every major artist to have "that" sound and now it's just mid-range honk/quack as far as the ear can hear


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## Eyelessfiend (Jun 28, 2022)

I didn't know people hated em. I see lots of people with em both locally and online. I don't own any but they seem fine if you like actives.


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## mbardu (Jun 28, 2022)

Because it's how the hype cycle goes.

It's hyped up by a few and quickly becomes _*the *_cool thing.
Then everyone starts putting it on everything and so it becomes not cool again.
People who were proud to shew them off on their boutique builds are salty that any pleb can suddenly get it on a used LTD, so now they're trash.


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## Strobe (Jun 28, 2022)

I mean, they are good pickups and a cool piece of tech with some neat features, but at the same time they are not everyone's cup of tea. There are only a dozen or so types - there are many, many competitors out there. Some are going to prefer the sound or feel of something else. Some will still write off anything with a battery.

That said, I spend plenty of time on guitar forums. I have definitely seen some complaints, and some over-hype of them, but nothing I would consider *hate*. Where is this hate? WTF are you referring to?


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## Crungy (Jun 28, 2022)

The ciiiiiircle of hyyyyyyype


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## magicpad (Jun 28, 2022)

I just got my first guitar (solar baritone) with a set of them and they are really great.... I prefer using the "modern" mode for recording and the "vintage" mode when I play/practice with the band.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 28, 2022)

I haven't seen much backlash beyond some isolated cases here or on fb. My only complaint is they drain batteries like mad.


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## wheresthefbomb (Jun 28, 2022)

Because if you teach a Man to Fish he will eat forever but if you teach a Fish to Man you have created an unholy abomination in the eyes of God and invite his swift and merciless wrath.


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## budda (Jun 28, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> Because if you teach a Man to Fish he will eat forever but if you teach a Fish to Man you have created an unholy abomination in the eyes of God and invite his swift and merciless wrath.


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## nickgray (Jun 28, 2022)

Remember Quad Cortex hype? Remember Bernie Rico Junior? Seen any guitars with Seymour Duncan Blackouts lately? Any superstrats with a floyd and a wonky bridge humbucker in the style of EVH?

Stuff just comes and goes. I remember when Fishman hype was just starting, and there was this video with Tosin with plenty of views where he was downright awed by the pickups. And yet couple of years ago from that Tosin was really excited about 8 string EMGs, there was even an official EMG video.

I wouldn't pay any attention to the hype. Artists are finicky, and there's fuck all money in the business, so don't hold it against them to hype things. YouTubers are just being YouTubers - 99% of review videos are, in reality, infomercials. Forums... well, Bernie Rico Junior, anyone?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 28, 2022)

Only really had 1 guitar I loved them in, 1 I liked them in, and the rest were meh. Also their support was less than stellar.

Also yeah they drain batteries like fucking clockwork. Fishmans are rated ~200 hours on a battery, while EMGS and Duncans are rated ~1500 hours.


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## Kaura (Jun 28, 2022)

soldierkahn said:


> Maybe ive lost touch with keeping my thumb on the pulse of the pickups world, but why has there been what seems to be an abrupt reversal of public opinions on Fishman Fluences? Why are so many people hating on them now?



They were hyped to death and then people realised they weren't the next best thing since sliced bread?


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## Seabeast2000 (Jun 28, 2022)

Capital Injection creates marketing contract
marketing contract creates hype
hype creates people trying 
People trying creates actual opinions
actual opinion creates not hype
fin


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## /wrists (Jun 28, 2022)

haters gonna hate


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## bjjman (Jun 28, 2022)

I think a lot of people regard Fishman Moderns as the 'Fishman sound' and Moderns can be polarizing. I'm not a fan of the Moderns but dig the Open Core Classics and their strat pickups. The Abasis' have some awesome tones but have a touch of the Modern vibe to them that has left me on the fence about them.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jun 28, 2022)

People are basing their opinions mostly off the moderns which are a hyper polarizing set of pickups. They sound like ass in anything above C and the claims of being more dynamic than EMGs are true, but the cleans still aren't great. At least an 81 does the drowned in chorus Metallica thing, moderns are too aggressive for that. They're super mid forward and people are plugging them into a 5153 and wondering why their tone is all mids and drowned in gain. For what they do they're king and the ceramic modern is the most pissed off thing made since the EMG 81. I love them but I'm also not using a hyper modern setup. 




Now the signature sets are a whole different ball game. Javier Reyes sigs?????? Dynamic, chunky, smooth, great cleans. Waaaaaaay different than the moderns. 


Also the wiring is complicated and they eat batteries like a rabid animal.


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## odibrom (Jun 29, 2022)

A passive humbucker delivers 6 different sounds and can be mixed in series with other passive pickups. No active can do this. I'm on the passives team...


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## Captain Shoggoth (Jun 29, 2022)

They're good pickups for metal and their ERG offerings are way cheaper than offerings from Seymour Duncan etc; the hype train has rolled off but they're still a fundamentally decent product.

The versatility & different voices thing is definitely overegged though, certainly on the Abasis at least. Abasi set is touted as having 3 voices, but in reality 1 & 2 are similar enough that you'll probably just pick the one of them you prefer slightly. Voice 3 gives them another dimension of versatility but it's a pale imitation of the split position-2-and-4 sound it's emulating; I'd wager it's probably not hugely different from other split actives, plus a little EQ bump to emulate the percussive aspect. If anything I felt they were a step backward from his splittable HSH Ionizer set, those being the reason I got the goddamn Fluences in the first place 

Also agreeing with consensus that the wiring and battery use are a nightmare. I had to get my XEN completely gutted & redone to accomodate them without issues (although in fairness the wiring in it was ass to begin with)


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## CanserDYI (Jun 29, 2022)

To me theyre cold, stiff, and unforgiving. I actually LOVE them for clean stuff, metal stuff Ill go back to my passive SDs.


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## CanserDYI (Jun 29, 2022)

To me theyre cold, stiff, and unforgiving. I actually LOVE them for clean stuff, metal stuff Ill go back to my passive SDs.


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## oremus91 (Jun 29, 2022)

Damn guys I didn't even get to try them yet, now I'm gonna be on the wrong side of history when I do.


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## lewstherin006 (Jun 29, 2022)

The only place I see hate for them is on here. But people love to hate and shit on everything here for some reason. I have Tosins in two of my main guitars and I love them.


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## thrashingmonkee (Jun 29, 2022)

evade said:


> haters gonna hate


And ainters gonna aint - lol movie crack me up


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## frank falbo (Jun 29, 2022)

As you might surmise, I’ve been in the pickups R&D and product development game for a long time. And I have a lot of data that isn’t just the thread counts in which someone says they tried (usually the moderns) and hated them. It’s normal, healthy, and it relates to their actual popularity. 

The more popular anything is, the higher the sample size, and the more prominent the contrarian opinions are. Moreover once something starts coming stock on a lot of OEM guitars, the more often people get it who got the guitar because it’s a cool guitar, but aren’t necessarily the right customer for the pickups. I hardly ever leave the pickups in any guitar I get. 

As for the comments about having “one sound” each one literally has 2 or more sounds. And anyone who has played things like Javiers and Classics, Strats, Greg Koch P90 and Tele, Mike Inez…this technology is capable of literally anything you ask of it. If there’s not a Fluence that makes the sound you like, chances are at some point in the future there will be.

Knowing what I know about the growth and market share, this is super normal, expected, and actually welcomed. If you make a product with low negatives, it usually means it’s milquetoast and that’s when your sales are lackluster. Everything I’ve seen out there in Fluence discussions is pretty much exactly what you want to see in a growth cycle.


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## Neon_Knight_ (Jun 29, 2022)

I wouldn't say they're hated now, but they're no longer being ridiculously over-hyped. SD Blackouts experienced a similar reception (over-hyped as a better alternative to EMGs, which anyone playing metal needs to own, then eventually treated as what they really are).

The reasons:
1) They are no longer new and shiny.
2) Now that they've been widely used for decent amount of time, neutral / negative reviews are less overshadowed by people trying to convince us (and themselves?) that their latest acquisition is the best thing since sliced bread.
3) People have started to realise that the "two voices" actually offer less versatility than an average set of HSH passives with a 5-way switch (and far less than 5-way switch + coil split).
4) It's now common knowledge that they drain batteries way faster than any other actives pickups on the market.


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## Emperoff (Jun 29, 2022)

You can trust Frank Falbo on this one. He's a completely unbiased source


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## bostjan (Jun 29, 2022)

This is just our history with this site. Look back at when there were only a dozen seven string pickups on the market and how the ToneZone7 was touted as the greatest thing only to be relentlessly shit on once a few people tried it expecting it to shoot daggers and fire out of the guitar when you played it. Then, a few years later, people were raving about the Crunchlab and Liquifire as being the last pickups anyone would ever need to buy, only to swap them out for Bareknuckles a week later.

Guitarists tend to prefer tone chasing to actual tone finding, I've noticed. I'm somewhat guilty of this, as well, but I tend to be either way too early or way to late on these bandwaggons.


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## Neon_Knight_ (Jun 29, 2022)

frank falbo said:


> As for the comments about having “one sound” each one literally has 2 or more sounds. And anyone who has played things like Javiers and Classics, Strats, Greg Koch P90 and Tele, Mike Inez…this technology is capable of literally anything you ask of it. If there’s not a Fluence that makes the sound you like, chances are at some point in the future there will be.


Some people will want the latest innovation that's capable of producing the sound they like, while others are content to stick with creating the same sound (potentially more authentically) with older and less cool equipment. Neither approach is right/wrong, but the initial wave of people buying a new product will always die down after an initial spike in popularity - no matter how good the product is.


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## Neon_Knight_ (Jun 29, 2022)

bostjan said:


> people were raving about the Crunchlab and Liquifire as being the last pickups anyone would ever need to buy


Somehow they've gone from being the most perfect and versatile pickup set in existence, to too muddy, lacking clarity, not enough bite etc.


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## Emperoff (Jun 29, 2022)

It is quite simple. These were marketed super agressively as "EMG killers", apparently besting them out in every department (you know, the usual pickup marketing bullshit like dynamics, clarity, note separation and all those fancy words guitarists love so much).

*Then when enough people try them, some actual facts appear:*
- They drain batteries like mad (main reason I never cared for them)
- There have been quite some cases of "sudden death" reported
- The extra voices are kinda gimmick-y and most people won't care live.
- It's hard to get all the wiring and stuff correctly
- They have this autowah tone to them that you can't dial out. Fine if that's your thing, otherwise...

*Then some subjective facts appear:*
- If they are more dynamic and less compressed than EMGs, it's impossible they can best EMGs at what they do best. That compressed super agressive sound they're known for.
- If you want dynamics, just get yourself some passives
- Why the hell are we even talking about dynamics if the first thing we do is slam the front end of the signal chain with a dimed booster pedal?

So at that point you ask yourself: "Why purchase a pickup set that claims to be better than EMGs in everything, when they actually have quite big flaws to be concerned at?"

If you want great sounding actives get an EMG 57/66 set and enjoy.


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## bostjan (Jun 29, 2022)

I think that there's also a simple truth to the idea that people ask for bloated options, but generally prefer simplicity on the spot. If you install an EMG 81 in the bridge, it undoubtedly gives you that EMG-81 sound and does a really really good job at it, and it's actually a great tone. But tons of people will try that, love it, then, moments later, want the pickup to do something else. So they'll replace it with some low-output passive pickup, and then that new pickup does a lot of the things the EMG-81 would not do, so they're in love, but, moments later, realize that a more diverse jack-of-all-trades pickup won't do nearly as good of a job nailing the more aggressive/more crystal clear/more compressed tone that they wanted on the spot, and the cycle continues.

It's what I affectionately call the Swiss-Army-Knife Effect. A Swiss Army Knife is super diverse - it has a knife, a saw, a fish scaler, tweezers, a toothpick, a pair of scissors, etc. But the more options you add to it, the more useless those options actually are when you need them. Sure, you can scale a fish with a swiss army knife, but it definitely doesn't do a good enough job that you'd ever consider it if you had an actual fish scaling tool. Sure, you could saw through something with it, but again, you'd literally do better with any saw that is an actual saw. Et cetera. So, in the moment, you need an EMG-81, but overall, you think you need all of these additional bullshit features that you likely won't ever actually use (probably because those features aren't fully developed), so you end up trying everything under the sun and make a thread on ss.o about how you always end up going back to EMG or whatever.

The actual solution to this is to buy more guitars. Buy a dozen of the same model and drop different pickups in each one. Then your only problem is that you spend 20x as much time posting photos of your guitar collection.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 29, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> - The extra voices are kinda gimmick-y and most people won't care live.


Besides the classics, I'm curious if anyone even uses anything other than voice 1 or voice 3 on their Fishmans?
I think the only time I actually did that was for the Classics. Voice 1 sounds great cleans and with low gain. Voice 2 with high gain. But with the more metal sounding Fishmans, I tended to avoid Voice 2. With the KsE set I thought Voice 2 was cool with cleans... but I really didn't use it much.  Just went with voice 3 for clean stuff or stuck with voice 1.


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## Emperoff (Jun 29, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Besides the classics, I'm curious if anyone even uses anything other than voice 1 or voice 3 on their Fishmans?
> I think the only time I actually did that was for the Classics. Voice 1 sounds great cleans and with low gain. Voice 2 with high gain. But with the more metal sounding Fishmans, I tended to avoid Voice 2. With the KsE set I thought Voice 2 was cool with cleans... but I really didn't use it much.  Just went with voice 3 for clean stuff or stuck with voice 1.



Thing is if you make your tones around a certain pickup's voice and then you change it, then the new voice probably won't sound that great. If you want to use both voices you will probably have to settle for something in between, so suddendly your extra tonal options become a compromise. Unless you do new presets for each voice, and by then you're juggling more than playing.

I think more people should try the TW versions of EMG pickups. They are not split coils, they are dual pickups (a humbucker + a single coil). And they sound fucking amazing (the 89 in single coil mode is instant Pulse-era Pink Floyd). There. More voicings that actually sound good and have proper wiring instructions


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## frank falbo (Jun 29, 2022)

> You can trust Frank Falbo on this one. He's a completely unbiased source



You can. I have unique experiences and data that spans new product releases, legacy product lifecycles and trendy product hype arcs, and no reason to be disingenuous.


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## Strobe (Jun 29, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Besides the classics, I'm curious if anyone even uses anything other than voice 1 or voice 3 on their Fishmans?
> I think the only time I actually did that was for the Classics. Voice 1 sounds great cleans and with low gain. Voice 2 with high gain. But with the more metal sounding Fishmans, I tended to avoid Voice 2. With the KsE set I thought Voice 2 was cool with cleans... but I really didn't use it much.  Just went with voice 3 for clean stuff or stuck with voice 1.



Tosins / Moderns - I mostly just use voice 1. The passive vs. modern voice changes are perhaps a little too subtle for me and I usually prefer the active voice as I have long been an active pickup enjoyer. If I want a different voice, I reach for a different guitar with a different pickup before I switch to voice 2 on these.
Classics / Tele / Strat set - use all, love all

Frank's point about hate coming out when a product becomes more ubiquitous rings true for me. I have seen that in my professional life in other industries. I legitimately appreciate people involved in the design of these things posting here. Some folks seem to get ornery about that, but I like to hear the perspective. I get that an insider is going to have certain biases, but Frank seems open and honest here.


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## Legion (Jun 29, 2022)

To be quite honest I've seen very little hate outside of EMG worship threads...
I've always maintained that Fishmans are one of only 3 real innovations in pickup technology (after the invention of the humbucker, the invention of the active pickup, and now printed coils). 
That being said, after doing my research I just came to the conclusion that Fishmans are just not the right product for me.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jun 29, 2022)

bjjman said:


> I think a lot of people regard Fishman Moderns as the 'Fishman sound' and Moderns can be polarizing. I'm not a fan of the Moderns but dig the Open Core Classics and their strat pickups. The Abasis' have some awesome tones but have a touch of the Modern vibe to them that has left me on the fence about them.



This is pretty similar for me. 

The Moderns tone wise have more of what I dislike about the 81 and 85, which are already not my chosen EMG pickups. Abasi's are definitely my pick for the modern leaning Fluences, and seem to lend themselves more readily to manipulation by an EQ before the amp. Their curves, sans Voice 3, seem more balanced to my ear. 

The Classics and Strat pickups are right up there with the EMG 60X and EMG SX/SAX as my favorite pickups. That's one of the main reasons I'm quite excited for the seemingly on the horizon 7/8 string singles Fishman appears to have coming. 

Koch pups are great too. 

I do have some pause when it comes to Fishman on the whole due to various things I've read and with my own limited interactions with the company, but I can say the same for a good deal of other companies in the gear game.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jun 29, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Besides the classics, I'm curious if anyone even uses anything other than voice 1 or voice 3 on their Fishmans?
> I think the only time I actually did that was for the Classics. Voice 1 sounds great cleans and with low gain. Voice 2 with high gain. But with the more metal sounding Fishmans, I tended to avoid Voice 2. With the KsE set I thought Voice 2 was cool with cleans... but I really didn't use it much.  Just went with voice 3 for clean stuff or stuck with voice 1.



I don't touch the Javier voice 2 under gain bc you can't tell the difference unless you have a clean amp, I use the modern voice 2 a lot though when I wanna take some edge and output off the sound, it's like rolling off the tone knob but for the high mids and adding some low mids without killing the sound like a tone knob does


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## bigcupholder (Jun 29, 2022)

I was curious to try the Classics but the battery life is limited enough to cancel out the appeal of multiple voices, so I never bought them.

I never had any interest in the moderns after hearing they're more mid focused than an EMG 81 and I could see how that would be a polarizing pickup.


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## Thesius (Jun 29, 2022)

Just wait for them to start heat treating their pickups and we'll rave about them for another week


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## tedtan (Jun 29, 2022)

Thesius said:


> Just wait for them to start heat treating their pickups and we'll rave about them for another week


Or cryogenic treatments.


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## SpaceDock (Jun 29, 2022)

I swapped out a 707x set for Fishman moderns and they are nicer. The two voice thing is such a tiny difference I find it to be almost unnoticeable. The split coil really doesn’t seem to sound like passives being split. I would put them as a midrange pickup, not as good as BKP or even some Duncans or Dimarzio depending on the model. I got them due to hype and they are a decent upgrade if you got 707 or maybe 81/85 but certainly not a top shelf pickup.


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## Steinmetzify (Jun 29, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Besides the classics, I'm curious if anyone even uses anything other than voice 1 or voice 3 on their Fishmans?
> I think the only time I actually did that was for the Classics. Voice 1 sounds great cleans and with low gain. Voice 2 with high gain. But with the more metal sounding Fishmans, I tended to avoid Voice 2. With the KsE set I thought Voice 2 was cool with cleans... but I really didn't use it much.  Just went with voice 3 for clean stuff or stuck with voice 1.



I have that Capa that’s got a single KsE in the bridge, and play a blend of Killswitch type stuff and some Crowbar type stuff. Depends on the mood and who I’m playing with. 

Voice 1 is that toppier mid type thing and voice 2 works better for the doom shit, the way I have my amp set up. 

I have a Modern set in another guitar and never switch those at all tho…


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## bjjman (Jun 29, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Besides the classics, I'm curious if anyone even uses anything other than voice 1 or voice 3 on their Fishmans?
> I think the only time I actually did that was for the Classics. Voice 1 sounds great cleans and with low gain. Voice 2 with high gain. But with the more metal sounding Fishmans, I tended to avoid Voice 2. With the KsE set I thought Voice 2 was cool with cleans... but I really didn't use it much.  Just went with voice 3 for clean stuff or stuck with voice 1.


I do it tons with the singles. Sometimes it's picking the right option for a song. Sometimes I actually go from voice 1 to 2 mid solo as a bit of a boost. Classics are the same, switch voices a lot. I don't do it as much between voice 1 and 2 with the Abasis, except when I want a bit of a doom vibe.


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## soldierkahn (Jun 30, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I haven't seen much backlash beyond some isolated cases here or on fb. My only complaint is they drain batteries like mad.



I also noticed how fast they drained my batteries so I tried installing the Fishman rechargeable battery instead. Now i just plug in my guitar to charge them up before i play it, and never wonder whether my batteries need swapped yet. Granted, the additional $100 expense on each of my guitars to have this in all of them is gonna be costly lol


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 30, 2022)

soldierkahn said:


> I also noticed how fast they drained my batteries so I tried installing the Fishman rechargeable battery instead. Now i just plug in my guitar to charge them up before i play it, and never wonder whether my batteries need swapped yet. Granted, the additional $100 expense on each of my guitars to have this in all of them is gonna be costly lol


I just use rechargeable batteries.


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## soldierkahn (Jun 30, 2022)

frank falbo said:


> As you might surmise, I’ve been in the pickups R&D and product development game for a long time. And I have a lot of data that isn’t just the thread counts in which someone says they tried (usually the moderns) and hated them. It’s normal, healthy, and it relates to their actual popularity.
> 
> The more popular anything is, the higher the sample size, and the more prominent the contrarian opinions are. Moreover once something starts coming stock on a lot of OEM guitars, the more often people get it who got the guitar because it’s a cool guitar, but aren’t necessarily the right customer for the pickups. I hardly ever leave the pickups in any guitar I get.
> 
> ...



thanks for chiming in Frank


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## IwantTacos (Jun 30, 2022)

moderns have always been trash.


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## soldierkahn (Jun 30, 2022)

bostjan said:


> I think that there's also a simple truth to the idea that people ask for bloated options, but generally prefer simplicity on the spot. If you install an EMG 81 in the bridge, it undoubtedly gives you that EMG-81 sound and does a really really good job at it, and it's actually a great tone. But tons of people will try that, love it, then, moments later, want the pickup to do something else. So they'll replace it with some low-output passive pickup, and then that new pickup does a lot of the things the EMG-81 would not do, so they're in love, but, moments later, realize that a more diverse jack-of-all-trades pickup won't do nearly as good of a job nailing the more aggressive/more crystal clear/more compressed tone that they wanted on the spot, and the cycle continues.
> 
> It's what I affectionately call the Swiss-Army-Knife Effect. A Swiss Army Knife is super diverse - it has a knife, a saw, a fish scaler, tweezers, a toothpick, a pair of scissors, etc. But the more options you add to it, the more useless those options actually are when you need them. Sure, you can scale a fish with a swiss army knife, but it definitely doesn't do a good enough job that you'd ever consider it if you had an actual fish scaling tool. Sure, you could saw through something with it, but again, you'd literally do better with any saw that is an actual saw. Et cetera. So, in the moment, you need an EMG-81, but overall, you think you need all of these additional bullshit features that you likely won't ever actually use (probably because those features aren't fully developed), so you end up trying everything under the sun and make a thread on ss.o about how you always end up going back to EMG or whatever.
> 
> The actual solution to this is to buy more guitars. Buy a dozen of the same model and drop different pickups in each one. Then your only problem is that you spend 20x as much time posting photos of your guitar collection.



yeah that old concept of Jack of All Trades but master of none.... if you have dynamics, it means its not as focused on doing one sound spot on in order to allow for "compromises". Ive always been an 81 player, even through the blackout phases.... but the first time i tried Fishmans in the DCM100 I was sold for it on 7s. Then when I heard the 6string version through my 970XL, ths when i kinda hung my hat up and stuck with Fishmans in everything. For me, the FIshmans crushed the 81 tone and took away what i didnt like about it. Are cleans lacking? absolutely, but i also look at how often im playing a clean tone (next to never) so its always the lowest priority for me when trying out pickups. 

I will say this though, I may end up trying out a couple diff models because Im not 100% in love with them in my JCRGA for Drop D. I do wanna try out a KSE set, an old Keith Merrow set, and the new Matt Heafy set to see what they bring to the table that the normal Modern didnt, but thatll take time


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## robotwithhumanhair22 (Jun 30, 2022)

I've got the Tosin set in my Kiesel ZM8 (and in my H/07R, once it becomes manifest) and, I may be in the minority here, must say they've placed me in the ballpark of desired tone. It's nice to be able to find a tone for once instead of spending years chasing them.

That being said, I completely ignore voice 2, more-or-less. A/B-ing them, to me, hardly makes much of a difference in sound but I've noticed voice 1 does give a bit more attack. Voice 3 produces some of the most ethereal-sounding cleans I've ever been able to produce and is f a n t a s t i c for split-coil sounds w/ some gain / thumping.

As with all things, YMMV. It's all a game of personal preference, really.


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## mrvomit (Jun 30, 2022)

bjjman said:


> I do it tons with the singles. Sometimes it's picking the right option for a song. Sometimes I actually go from voice 1 to 2 mid solo as a bit of a boost. Classics are the same, switch voices a lot. I don't do it as much between voice 1 and 2 with the Abasis, except when I want a bit of a doom vibe.


did the same as i could not get along 707 (on neck actually i like it , on bridge i had no feel at all with). The point is also that 707 equipped were soapbar , and soapbar aftermarket is pretty limited unless you go custom ,which is totally possible of course but you never know if it will be good on your guitar , and resell value is 0. Moderns in that guitar sounds a ton better ( i reversed alnico and ceramic position though and engaged the -6db jumper on both ,which is LOT better too they are really too hot oterwise ) . They have their sound ,really "modern" is quite appropraite name for those, hate/love does not make a sense i.m.o ( as it is for the 707 or whatever pu around ) .Even mixing fishman bridge alnico /707 on neck was quite good .
I have to find good rechargable batteries , here in (Eu/Italy) shops i found just underwhelming low-ampere stuff ,charges also bit expensive . But i use that Dean Wraith guitar in rotation with other passive ones so i did change only once in months


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## 0rimus (Jun 30, 2022)

This is a massive oversimplification, but using pickups that shape the EQ of your sound and add output, compression yadda yadda as much as Fishmans do...

It's kinda like marrying your overdrive pedal.

A large percentage of the people who hate Fishmans are running them into a boost still and won't take the time to re'EQ their amps without one when they try em. It sounds like running a ts9 into an 808 then into an amp.

I got lucky in my case, the Abasi Fluences boost my amp in the most flattering way, more so than any outboard boost out of the 50 or so plus I've tried.

They also have voice 2 which is a similar sound but sounds unboosted (or at least less boosted). And the best single-coil-ish split sound I've ever heard from any pickup. And I've split every single pickup I've ever installed lol.

Every time I feel the need to swap pickups (which is often) I use it as an excuse to try something new.

The only pickups I'd ever consider buying again under any circumstances are:

#1 Fluence Tosin Abasi set
#2 Dimarzio Liquifire
#3 Duncan Custom

Side Note: I really love the description of the Reyes Neck pickup. I feel like a Reyes Neck/Tosin Bridge would be like my ultimate endgame pickup set.

That said the Tosin neck is already damn good. Just would prefer something darker/hotter. I'm a Liquifire guy after all lol


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 30, 2022)

soldierkahn said:


> yeah that old concept of Jack of All Trades but master of none.... if you have dynamics, it means its not as focused on doing one sound spot on in order to allow for "compromises". Ive always been an 81 player, even through the blackout phases.... but the first time i tried Fishmans in the DCM100 I was sold for it on 7s. Then when I heard the 6string version through my 970XL, ths when i kinda hung my hat up and stuck with Fishmans in everything. For me, the FIshmans crushed the 81 tone and took away what i didnt like about it. Are cleans lacking? absolutely, but i also look at how often im playing a clean tone (next to never) so its always the lowest priority for me when trying out pickups.
> 
> I will say this though, I may end up trying out a couple diff models because Im not 100% in love with them in my JCRGA for Drop D. I do wanna try out a KSE set, an old Keith Merrow set, and the new Matt Heafy set to see what they bring to the table that the normal Modern didnt, but thatll take time


nvm


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## wheresthefbomb (Jun 30, 2022)

Thesius said:


> Just wait for them to start heat treating their pickups and we'll rave about them for another week



"With our signature anaerobic fermentation treatment, pickups are buried in a clay jar and allowed to ferment for 1,000 years resulting in an unspeakably funky tone."


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## Ralyks (Jun 30, 2022)

I have 4 Strandbergs, and I put new Fishmans in all of them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
My Original 7 has a Tosin set
My Prog NX 6 has a Keith Merrow set
My Masvidalien has a Classic
My Fusion Neck-thru, my main guitar, is currently getting Tosins installed after having Javiers which, great pickups, but not really what I'm looking for to use with this guitar. But I'm saving them for when I get a Srrandberg Salen Jazz, but they definitely work for Jazz.

Anyway, each pickup sounds different to me and serves their purposes to my liking. So yeah, guess I'm a Fishman guy.

Except Moderns. I agree with most of the negative comments on Moderns. Have always ripped them out as soon as possible.


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## hensh!n (Jun 30, 2022)

For me the issue is with the marketing, specifically around the Modern set. In my experience they are: 

- Still very much compressed
- More noisy (or at least not extremely "low noise") compared to EMG's
- Not very bright (there is a HF rolloff that is very noticeable when compared to an EMG 707 - Which isn't a particularly bright pickup)
- Very stiff and unforgiving (which is certainly more subjective than the other statements as noted above)

I am not against marketing and I understand that the intent is to sell more of a product, but I do believe marketing should be about leveraging _what the product actually does and who it's intended for_. Rather than stating it has (insert subjective comment here) advantage over its competitors when you can easily compare and identify that said (insert subjective comment) advantage doesn't _objectively_ exist.


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## Seabeast2000 (Jun 30, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> "With our signature anaerobic fermentation treatment, pickups are buried in a clay jar and allowed to ferment for 1,000 years resulting in an unspeakably funky tone."


Hand mined metals from old world methods by monks trained from birth. Only raw ore is used to smelt our tonemetals,, no recycled metals with an untonely past life.


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## Ralyks (Jun 30, 2022)

Oh, I will say this: their customer service is indeed an issue. Not because they're bad, it's because THERE ARE ONLY TWO REPS IN THE UNITED STATES.

I know this because my tech has had to call them for installations on my Strandberg a couple of times and it's literally what they said.


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## Randy (Jun 30, 2022)

Seabeast2000 said:


> Hand mined metals from old world methods by monks trained from birth. Only raw ore is used to smelt our tonemetals,, no recycled metals with an untonely past life.


Extra virgin tonemetals


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 30, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ...Fishmans are rated ~200 hours on a battery, while EMGS and Duncans are rated ~1500 hours.


200 hours? man, i knew i haven't been playing my guitar enough...that battery has been in there over 5 months. 

shows i need to practice more, and i'll do that after i put my iphone 3 on its charger...


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## aWoodenShip (Jun 30, 2022)

Oof as someone who just committed to buying a KM7 how do we feel about the Keith Merrow ones?


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 30, 2022)

aWoodenShip said:


> Oof as someone who just committed to buying a KM7 how do we feel about the Keith Merrow ones?


meh. They're tweaked classics basically.


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## MrWulf (Jun 30, 2022)

The KM is not bad at all. The neck is open core but the bridge is solid stuff. It's very chunky, tight and have lots of articulation/dynamic with it.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 30, 2022)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> 200 hours? man, i knew i haven't been playing my guitar enough...that battery has been in there over 5 months.
> 
> shows i need to practice more, and i'll do that after i put my iphone 3 on its charger...


Yep, straight from the website. Also can confirm because when I had Fluence Classics in my main player, I was changing batteries CONSTANTLY.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Jun 30, 2022)

I don’t think it is hatred so much as the hype of something new has worn off and in the end, the EMGs just stand the test of time as workhorse active pickups. Look at the range of people who have used the 81 alone, ranging from Steve Lukather to Metallica in the past 40 years.

Having said that, I do find the Greg Koch P90 and Tele sets interesting.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Jul 1, 2022)

I still love them, frustrated at lack of diversity (no 7, 8 strings for artists models, how about non-soapbar MS models), hardly any new pickups (nothing since JR set except only cosmetic releases), some passive pickups sound really great, trying out new stuff, all of the above really.


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## IwantTacos (Jul 1, 2022)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> I don’t think it is hatred so much as the hype of something new has worn off and in the end, the EMGs just stand the test of time as workhorse active pickups. Look at the range of people who have used the 81 alone, ranging from Steve Lukather to Metallica in the past 40 years.
> 
> Having said that, I do find the Greg Koch P90 and Tele sets interesting.



If only they’d release that tele set without all the extra bits.


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## Lemonbaby (Jul 1, 2022)

I used a set of Classics in a 2016 build and that Fishman rechargeable battery pack broke down after four years of use i.e. it only kept power for roughly a week with a few hours of playing. Threw out the PUs and the battery pack and went with other passive HBs. The sound of the Fishman Classics was nothing special, so no big loss (except for the money paid in the first place).


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## Lozek (Jul 1, 2022)

Please keep this thread going. I love my Classics and want to try some Townsends, if you guys can drive down the hype and hopefully pricing, that would be great for me.


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## RevDrucifer (Jul 1, 2022)

Lozek said:


> Please keep this thread going. I love my Classics and want to try some Townsends, if you guys can drive down the hype and hopefully pricing, that would be great for me.



I LOVE the Townsend’s. They do exactly what they’re advertised to do and quite convincingly.


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## Tree (Jul 1, 2022)

aWoodenShip said:


> Oof as someone who just committed to buying a KM7 how do we feel about the Keith Merrow ones?


MkIII with all three voicings? Or something with just the 2 voicings by default?

If you have all three they're incredibly versatile. I flip flop on loving them, or just being content, but they're honestly really great. Being that they are tweaked Classics, they actually have useable sounds unlike the Moderns. 

Voice 1: the best "feeling" for playing metal rhythms and leads IMO.
Voice 2: while it doesn't feel as good to play on, records the best.
Voice 3: sick as split coil sounds. Honestly very convincing single coil tones as long as you're not doing a direct A/B. 

I think you'll be plenty happy with them. 

I haven't gotten to try the whole Fishman lineup yet, but the KMs and Classics are probably the best for someone that doesn't only want djent or fucked up Matt Heafy tones


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## Lemonbaby (Jul 1, 2022)

Lozek said:


> Please keep this thread going. I love my Classics and want to try some Townsends, if you guys can drive down the hype and hopefully pricing, that would be great for me.


Once Fishman's selling figures go down, they'd need to increase prices.


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## Lozek (Jul 1, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> I LOVE the Townsend’s. They do exactly what they’re advertised to do and quite convincingly.


The Classics are perfect in my Horizon because it's a really dark, thick sounding guitar, I've got a Charvel 650xl which is the polar opposite so I'm hoping the Townsends will be a good match.


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## Ralyks (Jul 1, 2022)

I have the Keith Merrow set in my Boden Prog NX, which I keep in Eb Standard and Drop C#. I use it for stuff like older Cannibal Corpse and Morbid Angel, Slayer, Deftones, and it does everything I need of it.


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## Grindspine (Jul 1, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> Because if you teach a Man to Fish he will eat forever but if you teach a Fish to Man you have created an unholy abomination in the eyes of God and invite his swift and merciless wrath.


I thought if you taught a man to fish he just sat on a boat drinking beer.



TheBolivianSniper said:


> People are basing their opinions mostly off the moderns which are a hyper polarizing set of pickups. They sound like ass in anything above C and the claims of being more dynamic than EMGs are true, but the cleans still aren't great. At least an 81 does the drowned in chorus Metallica thing, moderns are too aggressive for that. They're super mid forward and people are plugging them into a 5153 and wondering why their tone is all mids and drowned in gain. For what they do they're king and the ceramic modern is the most pissed off thing made since the EMG 81. I love them but I'm also not using a hyper modern setup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is good to read since I just bought an 8 string with Fluences. I have played several of them before when they crossed my tech bench and really did not get a huge opinion of them at the time. I really did not see the hype. They honestly did not sound that different than an EMG 81x to me. Of course, that was running through a little Fender Champ rather than a full high-gain rig.

I figure that between my PRS six strings with Alpha/Omegas, a Dimebucker, a Distortion, EMG 81x & 60x, Duncan JB (alnico VIII magnet swap), Titans, Nazgul, Fusion Edge, I have a lot of aggressive pickups in my guitars. I don't need the consistency of a gigging musician, so I am okay tweaking my drive pedals a touch when switching guitars.


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## narojo (Jul 1, 2022)

I have Fishmans in a Strandberg. They're like so fucking awesome I could write a song about them. I do nothing but sing praises. Been playing guitar for like 18 years, played Strats, Les Pauls, ESPs, all kinds of stuff. The strandberg is the first guitar I've ever played where every single switch position and knob adjustment has a useable tone. When the guitar is perfectly intonated, there is a certain resonance there that you don't get from other pickups, and it is present at every fret position on every string. The tone stack allows me to be extremely precise with dialing in tones. I typically don't like fussing with the tone knobs because I don't like what they do on other guitars. They muddy the sound up in a way I don't like. Not these! I love the clarity and articulation that you get out of it. It's made me a better guitarist, allowed me to become more expressive, and expanded what I can do. I hear mistakes in my playing that I wasn't hearing before and I'm excited to refine my picking and string muting and whatnot. Not everybody wants their guitar to be like that, though. It's very unforgiving. But also, empowering.


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## NoodleFace (Jul 1, 2022)

I like fishman moderns for what they are,.definitely better than EMGs - but I am definitely a passive guy. The way guitarists EQ their guitars in a lot of death core/djent is really strange so that's probably where the hate comes from.


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## narojo (Jul 1, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yep, straight from the website. Also can confirm because when I had Fluence Classics in my main player, I was changing batteries CONSTANTLY.


What kind of batteries? I've definitely gotten more than 200 hours out of mine


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## RevDrucifer (Jul 2, 2022)

Lozek said:


> The Classics are perfect in my Horizon because it's a really dark, thick sounding guitar, I've got a Charvel 650xl which is the polar opposite so I'm hoping the Townsends will be a good match.



I’m not sure how they’ll react with different sounding guitars, but the three different settings are so damn useful it’s like having 3 different guitars. I’ve recorded a bunch of stuff where instead of using a different guitar/amp, I’ll just switch the settings.


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## Adieu (Jul 2, 2022)

Lemonbaby said:


> I used a set of Classics in a 2016 build and that Fishman rechargeable battery pack broke down after four years of use i.e. it only kept power for roughly a week with a few hours of playing. Threw out the PUs and the battery pack and went with other passive HBs. The sound of the Fishman Classics was nothing special, so no big loss (except for the money paid in the first place).



If you used the thing daily, that's not called "broke down". That's just the service life of a rechargeable battery.

Same shit with tablets, priuses, teslas you name it.


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## Matt08642 (Jul 2, 2022)

I'd really like to try the Devin Townsend set as well, battery life kinda kills it for me.


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## elkoki (Jul 2, 2022)

soldierkahn said:


> Maybe ive lost touch with keeping my thumb on the pulse of the pickups world, but why has there been what seems to be an abrupt reversal of public opinions on Fishman Fluences? Why are so many people hating on them now?


More people got to try them and develop their opinion maybe ? They’re not for everyone , but that applies to any pickup really .. they’re not one size fits all .

I have tried many Fluences and they’re good pickups . Not sure id say they’re better than passives or the ultimate pickups they’re just another brand really . People will sometimes have strong reactions to actives , some people love them others hate them because their sound is pretty unique , I don’t always see a lot of in between .


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## fantom (Jul 3, 2022)

MFB said:


> Because they have one sound, and they threw money at every major artist to have "that" sound and now it's just mid-range honk/quack as far as the ear can hear


Are we talking BKP or Fishman? Honestly can't tell.

10+ years ago it was EMG getting the hate.


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## Hoss632 (Jul 3, 2022)

I've only tried a jackson dinky that had moderns in it. I honestly wasn't that blown away by them, and prefered the 81/85 set in my schecter over them.


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## The Monster With . (Jul 3, 2022)

For me the battery life is a non issue. Even say 200 hrs, that's longer than a set of strings for a lot of people. For mine I bought rechargeable batteries from Amazon that were recommended on the fishman thread a while back, and they have worked awesome. Even in guitars where I have added active pickups and have the battery wedged in the control cavity, I can still change it in less than a minute.

For basic setups, such as a 3 way with two push pull pots, I think the wiring is easier than tradition pickups. Once it is wired, switching between other active pickups is considerably easier.

I like all the fishman pickups I have, my current favorite is a Townsend in the neck and a Modern alnico in the bridge. I've mixed with EMGs as well, and it worked fine. I kinda want to try an 81 in bridge and a classic in the neck.


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## aWoodenShip (Jul 3, 2022)

The Monster With . said:


> For me the battery life is a non issue. Even say 200 hrs, that's longer than a set of strings for a lot of people. For mine I bought rechargeable batteries from Amazon that were recommended on the fishman thread a while back, and they have worked awesome. Even in guitars where I have added active pickups and have the battery wedged in the control cavity, I can still change it in less than a minute.
> 
> For basic setups, such as a 3 way with two push pull pots, I think the wiring is easier than tradition pickups. Once it is wired, switching between other active pickups is considerably easier.
> 
> I like all the fishman pickups I have, my current favorite is a Townsend in the neck and a Modern alnico in the bridge. I've mixed with EMGs as well, and it worked fine. I kinda want to try an 81 in bridge and a classic in the neck.


That was going to be my next question was what are some good rechargeable batteries for these things lol.


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## elkoki (Jul 3, 2022)

Taken from the Strandberg site, using 2 Fluence pickups with most batteries actually gets you less that 200 hours

STRANDBERG* BODEN METAL ELECTRONICS​
Pickups: 2 X Fishman Fluence modern humbucker
Total current draw (2 X 2,5mA) = 5mA
DIFFERENT 9V BLOCK BATTERIES CAPACITIES​
Standard Alkaline 9v 6LR61: Approximately 400-650mAh
Rechargeable Alkaline 9v 6LR61: Approximately 150-250mAh
Lithium 9v 6LR61: Approximately 700-1200mAh
Rechargable Lithium 9v 6LR61: Approximately 500-800mAh
ESTIMATED BATTERY LIFE WITH DIFFERENT BATTERY OPTIONS FOR A DUAL HUMBUCKER FISHMAN-EQUIPPED .STRANDBERG* GUITAR​
Standard Alkaline 9v 6LR61 (400-650mAh) = 80-130 hours
Rechargeable Alkaline 9v 6LR61 (150-250mAh) = 30-50 hours
Lithium 9v 6LR61 (700-1200mAh) = 140-240 hours
Rechargable Lithium 9v 6LR61 (500-800mAh) = 100-160 hours






Fishman pickups and expected battery life - .strandberg* Guitars Knowledge Base


All active or powered pickups need power to operate. How long the battery will last is a question that can't be answered without knowledge about two things. The




support.strandbergguitars.com


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 4, 2022)

honestly, I'm changing my mind about the moderns, at least the ceramic bc imo the alnico is forgettable 

it's not one of my favorite pickups, I think it's my favorite period with context. AYDY era Bodom is my all time favorite tone/style and they absolutely crush for that application. I've been playing Alexi licks and riffs since I woke up this morning on my C1 and voice 1 is pretty much my ideal tone. 

Now for anything that's not bright and mid boosted I don't like it, it doesn't do scooped or massive sounds at all. 

but for my #1 application it sounds insane


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## NoodleFace (Jul 4, 2022)

I don't even notice the battery life being an issue. 26 weeks this year @2-3 hours practice/week with the band plus playing at home and I'm still rocking the same 9V. I don't play it plugged in 8 hours a day however but usually a few hours a week. Probably gonna need one soon. 

I've looked into rechargable packs, but if a 9V will last me this long it's not really feasible.


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## mpexus (Jul 4, 2022)

Because they are not the new trendy thing anymore. Now the trendy following dudes need the newest crap so they can bump up the Mids and Highs to shrill and piercing shiting tone and call it amazing, defined and powerful yet contained and harmonically rich or whatever mambo jambo they can come up with


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## Mountainman (Jul 4, 2022)

I have a set of moderns that I have loved less as I have played them more and will probably remove them for EMGs soon. Not that the fluence is bad, it just isn't scratching that itch as well as an 81/85 set does in the active voice, and the passive voice I don't even really use. I'll probably try the 81tw/89 set for some versatility. 

My biggest gripe with the fluence is their reliance on artist sig models. I am annoyed that they released the third single coil voice on the Matt Heafy signature instead of revising the moderns like they did the classics, locking anyone who wants the third voice into one look that might not fit everyone's guitar. Or those Will Adler fluences which sound cool, but wouldn't look right in my guitars. 

While I'm on my soapbox, I also wish they would release the prophecy pickups on their own or something similar as the other voices sound far more useful than the second voice on the moderns.


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## Flappydoodle (Jul 4, 2022)

I think the company themselves just flubbed it. They made all this massive hype, then couldn't deliver.

They came out strong with the Modern and Classic. Couple good signature models, but they all had a lot of overlap. The Modern, Devin and KSE set all just had "EMG81" voices. Merrow's set kinda sucked (IMO). Willie Adler's set I just never saw anywhere - maybe because you could only get them in one (ugly) finish.

And what has there been in the last few years? Nothing. Matt Heavy literally just changed the colour of a single stripe on the pickup case. So basically Fishman got us hard and horny, then left us with blue balls. Now comes the realisation that they all basically sound the same, lol.


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## lewis (Jul 4, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> I think the company themselves just flubbed it. They made all this massive hype, then couldn't deliver.
> 
> They came out strong with the Modern and Classic. Couple good signature models, but they all had a lot of overlap. The Modern, Devin and KSE set all just had "EMG81" voices. Merrow's set kinda sucked (IMO). Willie Adler's set I just never saw anywhere - maybe because you could only get them in one (ugly) finish.
> 
> And what has there been in the last few years? Nothing. Matt Heavy literally just changed the colour of a single stripe on the pickup case. So basically Fishman got us hard and horny, then left us with blue balls. Now comes the realisation that they all basically sound the same, lol.


Probably my most liked description of how I view the entire situation.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 4, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> I think the company themselves just flubbed it. They made all this massive hype, then couldn't deliver.
> 
> They came out strong with the Modern and Classic. Couple good signature models, but they all had a lot of overlap. The Modern, Devin and KSE set all just had "EMG81" voices. Merrow's set kinda sucked (IMO). Willie Adler's set I just never saw anywhere - maybe because you could only get them in one (ugly) finish.
> 
> And what has there been in the last few years? Nothing. Matt Heavy literally just changed the colour of a single stripe on the pickup case. So basically Fishman got us hard and horny, then left us with blue balls. Now comes the realisation that they all basically sound the same, lol.


I think color options definitely did a number. And leaving some pickup options limited. Some pickups don't have ERG options, and shit, some ERG pickups have no 6-string variants.
The Willie adler pickups are the dumbest move. Not only are you limiting it to one gold option, it's DISTRESSED gold.


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## Edika (Jul 5, 2022)

I still managed to escape the hype. I almost got a set used to try them out but I'm quite happy with the sounds I get from my guitars currently and didn't pursue it rigorously lol.

Having been on this forum for quite some time has taught me a lot of things and one important was to wait for the dust to settle when something comes out new, endorsed by almost everyone and overhyped. Then it's possible to see how a piece of gear really performs. This is what happened with Fishman. They were different enough and had the voicing options but it ended up not being the pickup to replace all pickups, as it was sold to the masses. I hope to try a set at some point to see for myself if I'd like them or not but not in a hurry lol!


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## Flappydoodle (Jul 5, 2022)

Edika said:


> I still managed to escape the hype. I almost got a set used to try them out but I'm quite happy with the sounds I get from my guitars currently and didn't pursue it rigorously lol.
> 
> Having been on this forum for quite some time has taught me a lot of things and one important was to wait for the dust to settle when something comes out new, endorsed by almost everyone and overhyped. Then it's possible to see how a piece of gear really performs. This is what happened with Fishman. They were different enough and had the voicing options but it ended up not being the pickup to replace all pickups, as it was sold to the masses. I hope to try a set at some point to see for myself if I'd like them or not but not in a hurry lol!


Yeah, my position now is that I keep Fishmans (Moderns) in one guitar. It's a good sound to have available. But other guitars that came with them, I am switching to other things.


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## MFB (Jul 6, 2022)

Now, I'm not sure if Heafy has changed the pickups in this LP as it doesn't look like his typical set, but if not, then that might get him off the shit list for Fishman being the reasons for him sounding so 'cocked wah'-ish on the last few releases


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 6, 2022)

MFB said:


> Now, I'm not sure if Heafy has changed the pickups in this LP as it doesn't look like his typical set, but if not, then that might get him off the shit list for Fishman being the reasons for him sounding so 'cocked wah'-ish on the last few releases




Dude's rig is insane these days

Tubescreamer > EQ for mid boost > 5153 

While the Moderns aren't the core reason, they definitely don't help.


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## narojo (Jul 6, 2022)

MFB said:


> Now, I'm not sure if Heafy has changed the pickups in this LP as it doesn't look like his typical set, but if not, then that might get him off the shit list for Fishman being the reasons for him sounding so 'cocked wah'-ish on the last few releases



I just saw them again recently and they killed it!


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## aWoodenShip (Jul 6, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Dude's rig is insane these days
> 
> Tubescreamer > EQ for mid boost > 5153
> 
> While the Moderns aren't the core reason, they definitely don't help.


Oops all mids


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## elkoki (Jul 6, 2022)

MFB said:


> Now, I'm not sure if Heafy has changed the pickups in this LP as it doesn't look like his typical set, but if not, then that might get him off the shit list for Fishman being the reasons for him sounding so 'cocked wah'-ish on the last few releases



Those don’t look like any Fluences I’ve seen before unless they’re with a custom cover . Fishman in nickel or chrome always have that Fluence signature line across them , those are probably stock Gibson pickups.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 6, 2022)

elkoki said:


> Those don’t look like any Fluences I’ve seen before unless they’re with a custom cover . Fishman in nickel or chrome always have that Fluence signature line across them , those are probably stock Gibson pickups.


I think he likes stock Gibson pickups. He also got a '59 Reissue he didn't swap pickups in either.


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## Emperoff (Jul 11, 2022)

Matt Heafy's tone sounds like a duck being strangled into an amp.


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## Ralyks (Jul 17, 2022)

Say what you will, but after putting Tosins in my Strandberg Fusion Neck-thru, those combined with the Fishman SSA both look and sound badass.


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## TheBloodstained (Jul 18, 2022)

I've never actually tried Fishman pickups, but I must admit that I'm a bit annoyed with them solely because every manufacturer seems to be putting them in almost every damn guitar right now, and I really want to get rid of active pickups in my life! 

One of my friends had a Schecter Keith Merrow signature with Fishmans, and I actually liked his sound. He, however, was quite displeased with it and wouldn't stop talking about swapping the pickups. I guess it all comes down to personal preference?


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## elkoki (Jul 18, 2022)

Ralyks said:


> View attachment 110880
> 
> 
> Say what you will, but after putting Tosins in my Strandberg Fusion Neck-thru, those combined with the Fishman SSA both look and sound badass.


I have a pair of Tosin’s too . I quite like them, at least more than the Moderns and KSE pickups I tried . They sound thick and heavy in my guitar , great for metal but also versatile with all the voices. I heard some people say they have too much of a wahwah tone .. but I haven’t felt that.


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## Legion (Jul 19, 2022)

I might have the dumbest reason on earth to want/not want active pickups.

The battery MUST go into the battery cavity. NOT the control cavity. 

If a guitar has a dedicated battery cavity, it MUST have actives. Else, it MUST have passives.


Fuck my OCD


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## aWoodenShip (Jul 19, 2022)

Legion said:


> I might have the dumbest reason on earth to want/not want active pickups.
> 
> The battery MUST go into the battery cavity. NOT the control cavity.
> 
> ...


I'm honestly with you on that one. Same thing with the tone knob. If it were up to me I'd not have a single tone knob on any of my guitars. But because they're already there I won't just simply unwire them lol.


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## bigcupholder (Jul 19, 2022)

Legion said:


> I might have the dumbest reason on earth to want/not want active pickups.
> 
> The battery MUST go into the battery cavity. NOT the control cavity.
> 
> ...


You could also install a fuzz pedal or something in the guitar instead.


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## hensh!n (Jul 19, 2022)

Can officially vouch for the battery issues. My battery died only a few months after a pickup swap/battery change. I wouldn't be surprised if the drain was higher to sell the expensive USB charger.


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## Legion (Jul 19, 2022)

bigcupholder said:


> You could also install a fuzz pedal or something in the guitar instead.





_*NO*_
*BATTERY COMPARMENT MUST CONTAIN BATTERY*


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## bigcupholder (Jul 19, 2022)

Legion said:


> _*NO*_
> *BATTERY COMPARMENT MUST CONTAIN BATTERY*


That's what I'm suggesting: use the battery for something else. Get into noise rock and play with the settings of whatever onboard effect you install as part of your playing.


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## Legion (Jul 19, 2022)

bigcupholder said:


> That's what I'm suggesting: use the battery for something else. Get into noise rock and play with the settings of whatever onboard effect you install as part of your playing.


and I am making fun of my OCD


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## youngthrasher9 (Jul 21, 2022)

When I played with guitars that were fishman loaded, I found that playing with like classic rock settings or anything less than super saturated they just sounded brittle and bad. I played probably 6 different guitars through a 5153 blue channel and it sounded great, with thrashy settings. Brought over a fishman modern loaded guitar, yikes. I switched to the red channel, however, and they sounded fucking great into that. For me, I can’t justify something that might not work with something like say, the tiny terror that I used to own. That was a great amp, but it had a very classic voicing that I doubt would’ve jivved with the moderns.


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## Marked Man (Jul 24, 2022)

Strobe said:


> I mean, they are good pickups and a cool piece of tech with some neat features, but at the same time they are not everyone's cup of tea. There are only a dozen or so types - there are many, many competitors out there. Some are going to prefer the sound or feel of something else. Some will still write off anything with a battery.
> 
> That said, I spend plenty of time on guitar forums. I have definitely seen some complaints, and some over-hype of them, but nothing I would consider *hate*. Where is this hate? WTF are you referring to?



Just like people who don't like bands/artists after they become too popular:

_*Hey dude, don't tell me about what's cool. I dug Billy Joel when he was still underground, man.....

*_


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## Thrashman (Jul 24, 2022)

I don't get the hate on Heafys tone. Yeah the mids are a bit cocky but the tone overall is shaarp and searing. Cuts through a mix well.


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## Dayn (Jul 24, 2022)

I have 8-string Abasis and 7-string Moderns. I prefer the Abasis, but the Moderns aren't any worse, just a bit different. But replacing my EMG808Xs (which replaced my 808s) with the Abasis was like giving my guitar new life. Just better in every way, and I love the clean tones.

When I got another 8-string with passive pickups, it was the first guitar I've had with proper passives. After getting my rig sorted, they sit alongside my Fishmans. A bit less versatile compared to the Fishmans, but they goddamn rip.

I suppose the hype has just died down. The idea of the magnets being printed, not wound, is rather revolutionary since you can just turn off parts of it for single coil sounds. But when they came out with it, they just didn't seem to really go anywhere. It was 'here are these pickups', we got them, and that's about it. They still don't even have a 6-string bass pickup, which is something I would've totally gotten. But all these years and still nothing?


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## Giest (Jul 24, 2022)

Dayn said:


> They still don't even have a 6-string bass pickup, which is something I would've totally gotten.



I second that, really seems like the tone would fit a 6 string bass perfectly. I'm not a fan of them in guitars, but due to the traits which would probably really work to the advantage of a bass with some range to it.


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## elkoki (Jul 25, 2022)

Thrashman said:


> I don't get the hate on Heafys tone. Yeah the mids are a bit cocky but the tone overall is shaarp and searing. Cuts through a mix well.


I generally like his tone too , but in that video above it was a little too brittle sounding . But that’s due to how he dials in his amp and pedals , I’m positive those are not Fluences in that particular guitar .


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## grimm26 (Jul 25, 2022)

MFB said:


> Because they have one sound, and they threw money at every major artist to have "that" sound and now it's just mid-range honk/quack as far as the ear can hear


This is exactly why the Keith Merrow bridge pickup is terrible. I bought a KM3 and returned it because the sound was terrible. The guitar itself was nice.


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## MFB (Jul 25, 2022)

grimm26 said:


> This is exactly why the Keith Merrow bridge pickup is terrible. I bought a KM3 and returned it because the sound was terrible. The guitar itself was nice.



The sound of the Fishmans was horrible, did you swap them before returning it? That's the easiest piece to take issue with from the factory.


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## SpinalTap (Jul 25, 2022)

I've got Abasi's on my LTD M-1008. I think they're fucking great. Certainly wouldn't swap out every other guitar I own, but I can't imagine I'll even think about changing these anytime soon, if ever.

Batteries have lasted longer than I can keep track of, dunno if others have had a wiring mishap or something?


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## MASS DEFECT (Jul 25, 2022)

I have used almost all the Fluence models and the quacky midrange hate is valid. Since they are active pickups, they will be judged on their V1 active voices which almost all have the quack save for the Devin set. 

The V2 passive voicings however don't have that honky midrange. The most honky Modern ceramic has this fairly scooped-sounding V2 that has huge bass. The Tosin bridge V2 is the best sounding since it sounds like a DiMarzio that Petrucci or Abasi would use--- warm sounding with some lows and low mids and smooth highs. Switching between these voices have a considerable audible difference. 

The Merrows, however, have a weird eq where it has no lows, lots of low mids, and grating high mids. And the Javiers are so dark, that I find them hard to fit in a live mix. Awesome cleans though especially, the jazzbox voice. 

The Tosin set is the only set I would use since all its voices are useable. I hope Fishman would further develop the Fluence products and not just go into endless Signature sets since the technology is practically very innovative. They just need to step it up.


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## hensh!n (Jul 25, 2022)

I noticed that my Modern set also had this strange "ringing" harmonic when I would palm-mute on the low b string of my 7-string. It was worse on V1, but it was still noticeable on V2. Only the low b (while open palm-muting). Very annoying, and it only went away after I changed pickups.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 25, 2022)

Dayn said:


> I have 8-string Abasis and 7-string Moderns. I prefer the Abasis, but the Moderns aren't any worse, just a bit different. But replacing my EMG808Xs (which replaced my 808s) with the Abasis was like giving my guitar new life. Just better in every way, and I love the clean tones.
> 
> When I got another 8-string with passive pickups, it was the first guitar I've had with proper passives. After getting my rig sorted, they sit alongside my Fishmans. A bit less versatile compared to the Fishmans, but they goddamn rip.
> 
> I suppose the hype has just died down. The idea of the magnets being printed, not wound, is rather revolutionary since you can just turn off parts of it for single coil sounds. But when they came out with it, they just didn't seem to really go anywhere. It was 'here are these pickups', we got them, and that's about it. They still don't even have a 6-string bass pickup, which is something I would've totally gotten. But all these years and still nothing?


they print the coil, not the magnet.


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## aWoodenShip (Jul 25, 2022)

grimm26 said:


> This is exactly why the Keith Merrow bridge pickup is terrible. I bought a KM3 and returned it because the sound was terrible. The guitar itself was nice.


Dealing with this myself unfortunately. I really really like the guitar and am not quite ready to get rid of it altogether. But I can't stand the way it sounds with my usual presets.


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## Hoss632 (Jul 25, 2022)

For me Fishman wise I've found that the Classics don't have the cocked wah sound like the more modern voiced stuff does and I dig em. I also don't mind the Adler set. The modern set, tosin, and Townsend sets to me all work if you are playing in tunings Drop C or lower, and in 7 strings work because the mids in those tunings make sense. That's just my thought though. I've not actually gotten to play anything but a set of moderns in person and I preferred EMG's over them as far as 6 string guitars were concerned.


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## MFB (Jul 26, 2022)

aWoodenShip said:


> Dealing with this myself unfortunately. I really really like the guitar and am not quite ready to get rid of it altogether. But I can't stand the way it sounds with my usual presets.



Swap. the. pickups.


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## Tree (Jul 26, 2022)

MFB said:


> Swap. the. pickups.


Or change your presets? The cheapest option. Don’t dime the tone control on any ODs you’re using and maybe back off the presence and treble a bit on your amp. It makes a huge difference with these. I have different versions of all of my presets for my different guitars. 

The routes on the KM mkiiis are super snug, so you may need to modify a new pickup to fit properly.


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## MFB (Jul 26, 2022)

Tree said:


> Or change your presets? The cheapest option.



Shows how anti-active I am when I didn't even think of the option that's legitimately free


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 26, 2022)

Yeah the common thing I see with the KM series is "The guitar is amazing, the pickups suck." 
I noticed less of that when they were using Duncans. Given they may be switching to Lundgrens, tha'll be less of a problem


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## Tree (Jul 26, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah the common thing I see with the KM series is "The guitar is amazing, the pickups suck."
> I noticed less of that when they were using Duncans. Given they may be switching to Lundgrens, tha'll be less of a problem


I definitely flip flop on them. They’re fantastic for fitting into a mix on recordings, but depending on the day I would either love them, or feel “meh” towards them when playing and not recording. 

Actually that only applies to the bridge pickups. The neck is absolutely fine for any application you throw at it IME.


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## Audiowonderland (Jul 26, 2022)

Do people hate on them? They came stock on my schecter s1 elite. I am not so much a metal guy but I find them a nice alternative to have


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## JMP2203 (Aug 3, 2022)

any info on the new 8 string single-coil?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 3, 2022)

Audiowonderland said:


> Do people hate on them? They came stock on my schecter s1 elite. I am not so much a metal guy but I find them a nice alternative to have


Yes, I'm one of those people.  Most of my ire is the Modern series + the sigs they're based on.


JMP2203 said:


> any info on the new 8 string single-coil?



I think those are going to be Javier Reyes sig pickups.


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## BenSolace (Aug 3, 2022)

I have an open core classic bridge and I really like the sound, but fucked if I'm replacing batteries that often. A little bit of pre-EQ and/or boost on a PAF style pickup gets me there.

One thing I liked about EMGs is that you don't need a bridge ground, which meant you were at zero risk from getting shocked by a mic at a shitty venue. Not so with the Fishmans, and without that I fail to see any other benefits other than maybe decreased tone loss over long cable runs.


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