# Halo 8



## bostjan

Ok continue


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## David

I thought they pulled the plug on it?


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## Metal Ken

They did. Waylon said in the other thread that Kahler couldn't provide him a low enough price on the bridges to make it worthwhile.. 

BUT,you know what i thinik would be cool? Individual saddles, like they have on bass guitars. that would OWN.


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## bostjan

Sorry, new thread spun off from Chris9's LGM thread

I think the nine string was the one with all the confusion.


Yeah, or have someone make them a hardtail. Might be more expensive than individual saddles, but it could be cheaper in the long run (considering wiring and routing that is)


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## Metal Ken

I definately think that there's more of an advantage in the individual saddle thing, aside from looking badass, the only custom part they'd need aside from C&C templates is a 8 string nut, and nuts shouldnt cost that mch..

I think something could be really workable with:

EMG bass pickups (for 5 string) - Since EMG's are pretty much the same between all the instruemnts, it'd be a good choice (At least from what i understand)
Individual saddles - Saves a FUCKTON of money on custom machining. 

aside from that, there's not a lot else you'd have to custom order..


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## Donnie

Hipshot makes a fixed 8 bridge.
And while I have kind of "grown out" of the idea of having more than 7 strings, it'd be cool to see an afordable 8.


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## bostjan

Et tu Donnie?! Were you not the founder of Extended Range Guitars dot com?


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## Donnie

Yep. I just lost interest. 7s enough. And I'm having a hard enough time going on with that many strings.


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## Metal Ken

Also, since Waylon was asking about it in the other thread, i think the best inlays would either be inverted pentagrams or inverted crosses, or nothing at all ;D


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## bostjan

What body wood? I was thinking alder would be fine. Nyck made a statement that Swamp Ash would be better.


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## darren

Another thing you can do is a simple base plate for Wilkinson-style GraphTech saddles.


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## Metal Ken

Body wood? 
I never thought of it until after i got my Groove Tools, but i dunno if its the wood or the pickups they use but i absolutely LOVE the tone of the thing, so i think i'd actually get cherry if i had a pick.. otherwise, alder.


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## nyck

I think the hipshot 8 fixed bridge is the best option. Individual bridges are going to cost a little bit more, and the difference isn't really negligable imo.


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## Metal Ken

i require individual saddles, damnit ;p


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## nyck

They do look sweet lol


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## bostjan

Ok, so aside from individual saddles, what are the other options you would go for keeping the price as low as possible? Scale lengths? Controls?


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## nyck

I think a 27" scale is the best compromise. It's not too much to where it's hard to shred on(like a 30"), and it's long enough to be able to use a decent string gauge(.085) for the F#. 

Controls, what I would want is a single volume/single emg, but that's obviously not gonna happen. If we went with 2 EMGs, the only option is 3 way switch and Volume/Tone pots. There's not much option here, and electronics are cheap anyway(- the pickups). 

To keep the cost as low as possible, I really think a single emg/volume would be a good setup electronic-wise. Swamp ash body with a hipshot fixed(best option) along with all maple neck, no inlays. That would make for a pretty cheap production 8 imo. I would definetly buy one(yeah I would) if the body/headstock design is to my liking. I think a completly new body design+headstock would be awesome.
Hardware would only be around 300 for a single EMG and 400 for 2 Emgs.


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## NegaTiveXero

nyck said:


> I think a 27" scale is the best compromise. It's not too much to where it's hard to shred on(like a 30"), and it's long enough to be able to use a decent string gauge(.085) for the F#.
> 
> Controls, what I would want is a single volume/single emg, but that's obviously not gonna happen. If we went with 2 EMGs, the only option is 3 way switch and Volume/Tone pots. There's not much option here, and electronics are cheap anyway(- the pickups).
> 
> To keep the cost as low as possible, I really think a single emg/volume would be a good setup electronic-wise. Swamp ash body with a hipshot fixed(best option) along with all maple neck, no inlays. That would make for a pretty cheap production 8 imo. I would definetly buy one(yeah I would) if the body/headstock design is to my liking. I think a completly new body design+headstock would be awesome.
> Hardware would only be around 300 for a single EMG and 400 for 2 Emgs.



Yeah, electronics would definitely be cheap if anyone went the EMG route, they come with the pots, output jack, battery clip, and of course, the pickup.
I agree with nyck completely, what he described (a bare bones 8) would be quite cheap. I would rather have a rosewood fingerboard, but if i didn't have a choice, maple would suffice.


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## bostjan

Well, herein is where the trouble lies. If electronics are $300 (EMG) and the bridge is $300 (for ABM), plus a redesigned body and headstock, you can forget about it being $1000. There must be a cheaper way that would be acceptable. Come on guys.

Unless you want this thing to run $2k.


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## XEN

Back to the Hipshot bridge then. Those things are a third of the price of an ABM setup, maybe less. Also, I think the EMGs would run more like $200 than $400 for a pair. 4 tunings machines per side on the headstock and all you have to do is buy 2 sets of left handed ones and 2 sets of right handed ones and you have enough for 3 8 string guitars. Fanned frets are out of the question because of the Novax license fee. I personally would go with the 28.625" scale, or maybe the 27" scale since they would not require any new fret slotting jigs. We're still talking about $1500 retail for such a guitar.


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## nyck

My reasoning for 300 hardware set is this:
~100 8 tuners(locking or not, doesn't matter. he can buy them individually, don't worry)
~100 EMG 40DC(add another 100 for a second EMG)
~100 Hipshot 8 string fixed bridge
Those are all accurate numbers, and that's pretty much the cheapest way to go  I've done the research, trust me.


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## JPMDan

Alder Body, Hipshot Bridge, 1 vol 1 EMG (2 EMG 3 way toggle option), maple neck, Fingerboard (maple or rosewood), Graphite nut, Headstock and Tuners (nyck's idea)


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## XEN

Add a 300% markup on the cost and labor, and you have an estimate of the retail price for the instrument. We're still at $1500 plus, but that is what it's supposed to be. The ONLY way to get the price down is for someone to make them in bulk.


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## nyck

EMG 40DC you can order from pretty much any EMG reseller.
http://www.midmichiganmusic.com/product_info.php?products_id=7238

Hipshot bridge is easily obtained, and I'm sure there's some kind of bulk discount.
http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=177


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## bostjan

That's the whole idea, right? ~Going in bulk?


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## nyck

urklvt said:


> Add a 300% markup on the cost and labor, and you have an estimate of the retail price for the instrument. We're still at $1500 plus, but that is what it's supposed to be. The ONLY way to get the price down is for someone to make them in bulk.


300%? Isn't that a bit...much? or is that the reality?


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## W4D

ok i have a question. 

Going through your specs this is what your looking for


Construction: Bolt On
Material: Bass or Ash
Finger Board: Rose wood
Inlays: anything other than dots
Scale: 27
Electronics: EMG 5 string bass pick up
Bridge: Hip Shot 8 string fixed bridge

My questions are these.

Would you be ok with one pick up only?
Would you be ok with Black Finish?
What is the desired nut width you all would like to see?

Please answer these for me...


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## bostjan

Well, if it's an EMG, I think one pickup is fine. Black finish is great.

Nut width? What are the options? Something like 2.25" or 2.33"?! No idea, there.


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## nyck

W4D said:


> ok i have a question.
> 
> Going through your specs this is what your looking for
> 
> 
> Construction: Bolt On
> Material: Bass or Ash
> Finger Board: Rose wood
> Inlays: anything other than dots
> Scale: 27
> Electronics: EMG 5 string bass pick up
> Bridge: Hip Shot 8 string fixed bridge
> 
> My questions are these.
> 
> Would you be ok with one pick up only?
> Would you be ok with Black Finish?
> What is the desired nut width you all would like to see?
> 
> Please answer these for me...


Material: definetly not basswood. I have my 27" 7 string tuned to F# right now, and it's definetly not the most desirable wood for an 8 string. Swamp ash would be perfect imo.

Fingerboard: I think it would be awesome if we could get a maple fretboard. There is such a lack of them on production guitars, and rosewood gets boring after seeing it on 80% of guitars.

Inlays: none to keep the costs down haha

One pickup would be perfect for me. It opens a lot of doors body design-wise because the neck EMG might get in the way of the lower cutaway. I know the LGM Leviathian can't fit a EMG neck pickup because of the cutaway. 
A black finish would be fine I guess. I think a flat black instead of glossy black would really stand out. Maybe even a black stain with an oil finish to show the swamp ash waves. 
Don't know about the nut width. I guess Ibanez Wizard nut width x2. lol


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## W4D

nyck said:


> Material: definetly not basswood. I have my 27" 7 string tuned to F# right now, and it's definetly not the most desirable wood for an 8 string. Swamp ash would be perfect imo.
> 
> Fingerboard: I think it would be awesome if we could get a maple fretboard. There is such a lack of them on production guitars, and rosewood gets boring after seeing it on 80% of guitars.
> 
> Inlays: none to keep the costs down haha
> 
> One pickup would be perfect for me. It opens a lot of doors body design-wise because the neck EMG might get in the way of the lower cutaway. I know the LGM Leviathian can't fit a EMG neck pickup because of the cutaway.
> A black finish would be fine I guess. I think a flat black instead of glossy black would really stand out. Maybe even a black stain with an oil finish to show the swamp ash waves.
> Don't know about the nut width. I guess Ibanez Wizard nut width x2. lol



Ok so try this on:

Construction: Bolt On
Material: Ash
Finger Board: Rose wood
Inlays: None
Binding: None
Scale: 27
Electronics: EMG 5 string bass pick up
Bridge: Hip Shot 8 string fixed bridge
Hardware: Black (diecast)
Finish: Black
Tuners: Gotoh 4 on each side

WOULD THAT WORK FOR YA?


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## XEN

Black finish, one EMG, fixed bridge, side dots only...? Perfect. That's my ideal guitar there.


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## darren

That sounds like a perfect bare-bones 8 to me. Heck, that'd make a nice 7, too! Matte black is great for that "stealth" look... especially with no inlays. 

If the price is right, it might be a good entry-level 8-string for someone like me who has no idea if he'd have a practical purpose for one. If i buy it, play it and like it, i may want more of 'em.


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## Bassies7string

Oh YEAH!!! That would work for me!!


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## JJ Rodriguez

Sounds good to me. I'd prefer ebony for a fretboard, but hey, for a cheap 8 you can't afford to be too picky.


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## Roland777

Sounds real good. Good to see we got some pioneering spirit in the business, Waylon!


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## Nik

Sounds good, although if the price can be lowered enough, I'd be willing to add an extra $150 to he price in order to upgrade from EMGs to Lungrens, personally. I'm not a big fan of EMGs...

But it's important to keep the price low, because if it gets expensive, then it doesn't make sense to buy one when, for a serious amount of dough, you can get a 100% custom 8 built to your exact specifications.


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## Roland777

Nik said:


> Sounds good, although if the price can be lowered enough, I'd be willing to add an extra $150 to he price in order to upgrade from EMGs to Lungrens, personally. I'm not a big fan of EMGs...



x2


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## W4D

Hmmm...

I will do some sketch work of what the guitar will look like and send it to you all. In January of 2007 I will introduce this guitar. I will have photos of the proto-type available in by X-Mas time. And I will offer it on sale through sevenstring.org before it hits the streets. I called my suppliers and they can hook me up with a great deal on the materials needed to produce this guitar. So that was step one. Now on to step two. The proto-type. I will keep you posted and as soon as the parts get here and i start making teh official body I will post pictures. So lets keep this thread open so we can all stay updated on this guitar. Sound like a deal.

*HALO 8 String Guitar*
*TARGET LIST PRICE: $1,250.00
TARGET STREET PRICE: $1,000.00*

*Construction:* Bolt On
*Scale:* 27"
*Body:* Ash
*Neck:* Maple 
*Finger Board:* Rosewood
*Inlays:*
*Pick Ups:* EMG
*Controls:* 1 x Volume / 1 x Tone
*Tuners:* Gotoh (4 each side)
*Bridge:* Hip Shot Fixed Bridge
*Color:* Black


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## David

^^^^^DAMN! I'm guessing you work for Halo guitars?


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## Scott

nub


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## Donnie

David said:


> ^^^^^DAMN! I'm guessing you work for Halo guitars?


Something along those lines.


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## W4D

David said:


> ^^^^^DAMN! I'm guessing you work for Halo guitars?



Yeah I Do.  I think?


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## nyck

That sounds sweet. Any idea what the body style/headstock will be?

I came up with these sketches for headstock ideas a while back.


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## W4D

We we have a new head stock that will be the main head stock for HALO pretty evil looking. Sorta like a Demon head. Definatly enough room on it for 4 on each side. So I will use that for the Proto-Type and see how it looks with the body design I come up with.


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## David

W4D said:


> Yeah I Do.  I think?


!


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## noodles

W4D said:


> I will do some sketch work of what the guitar will look like and send it to you all. In January of 2007 I will introduce this guitar. I will have photos of the proto-type available in by X-Mas time. And I will offer it on sale through sevenstring.org before it hits the streets. I called my suppliers and they can hook me up with a great deal on the materials needed to produce this guitar. So that was step one. Now on to step two. The proto-type. I will keep you posted and as soon as the parts get here and i start making teh official body I will post pictures. So lets keep this thread open so we can all stay updated on this guitar. Sound like a deal.



Holy hell, you rule, dude!  

BTW: What body shape?


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## Chris

W4D said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> I will do some sketch work of what the guitar will look like and send it to you all. In January of 2007 I will introduce this guitar. I will have photos of the proto-type available in by X-Mas time. And I will offer it on sale through sevenstring.org before it hits the streets. I called my suppliers and they can hook me up with a great deal on the materials needed to produce this guitar. So that was step one. Now on to step two. The proto-type. I will keep you posted and as soon as the parts get here and i start making teh official body I will post pictures. So lets keep this thread open so we can all stay updated on this guitar. Sound like a deal.
> 
> *HALO 8 String Guitar*
> *TARGET LIST PRICE: $1,250.00
> TARGET STREET PRICE: $1,000.00*
> 
> *Construction:* Bolt On
> *Scale:* 27"
> *Body:* Ash
> *Neck:* Maple
> *Finger Board:* Rosewood
> *Inlays:*
> *Pick Ups:* EMG
> *Controls:* 1 x Volume / 1 x Tone
> *Tuners:* Gotoh (4 each side)
> *Bridge:* Hip Shot Fixed Bridge
> *Color:* Black



Matte black with a blank fretboard and I'd buy one immediately.


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## W4D

Chris said:


> Matte black with a blank fretboard and I'd buy one immediately.



OK OK OK I will make the Proto-Type Matte Black to see what it is like and with a blank fret board. 

Everyone else like that. Does it sound apealing like that to everyone.


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## Chris

Dibs on the prototype!


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## nyck

W4D said:


> We we have a new head stock that will be the main head stock for HALO pretty evil looking. Sorta like a Demon head. Definatly enough room on it for 4 on each side. So I will use that for the Proto-Type and see how it looks with the body design I come up with.


That should be interesting!


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## Scott

Make the proto left handed.


I'm serious. That would fucking own. I'd buy the proto from you afterwards.


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## XEN

...oh yeah, and 24 frets please!


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## nyck

W4D said:


> OK OK OK I will make the Proto-Type Matte Black to see what it is like and with a blank fret board.
> 
> Everyone else like that. Does it sound apealing like that to everyone.


That's definetly appealing


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## David

urklvt said:


> ...oh yeah, and 24 frets please!


yes! That's a must!


Also, a non-painted neck. Painted necks can get sticky and annoying. Plain wood works fine for me.=)


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## noodles

Chris said:


> Dibs on the prototype!




I'll Rochambeau you for it.


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## JPMDan

David said:


> Also, a non-painted neck. Painted necks can get sticky and annoying. Plain wood works fine for me.=)



   



nyck said:


> That sounds sweet. Any idea what the body style/headstock will be?
> 
> I came up with these sketches for headstock ideas a while back.




I like these designs alot, good work nyck.


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## bostjan

I like it. +1 to what Chris, David, Nyck, and everyone said. I don't even care if the prototype is a lefty, it'd still give us a good idea of what it'd look like.


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## JJ Rodriguez

Can the saddles on the Hipshot fixed bridges be replaced by Graphtec saddles? Looks like they might, that means you piezo lovers could get those too. I don't think I'd need them, but would be a nifty project. What's the neck joint on a Halo like? Would it be an AANJ type deal? Also, maybe we should pitch the SS.org 7 string idea to Halo, see what kind of a deal we'd get on our ideas in that thread.


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## JPMDan

Graphtec piezo would add too much to the price, lets keep it basic.


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## JJ Rodriguez

I meant as an after market mod to those who wanted them. I don't even want piezo's.


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## darren

A matte black stain over ash would look pretty cool, especially if the grain were left un-filled so the texture of the ash grain comes through.

And yes, GraphTech saddles can be retrofit onto Hipshot bridges. LGM has already built a blue quilt 8-string with a GraphTech piezo system on a Hipshot 8-string bridge.


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## JPMDan

I dont want them either actually, I personally want a simple 2 pickup 1 vol 3 way toggle 8 string. I totally dig the matte black finish and blank board idea.


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## Metal Ken

Darren -is that what the hipshot bridge looks like? If so, i'd take that too (I still like the idea of individual saddles more, but that still looks good)


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## JJ Rodriguez

http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=175


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## noodles

darren said:


>



Don't go brandishing images like that around here! They're dangerous to my wallet.


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## Chris

darren said:


> If it looked something like this, i'd have to leave my credit card in a locked vault to which i do not have the combination.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is, i've got the number memorized.
> 
> A matte black stain over ash would look pretty cool, especially if the grain were left un-filled so the texture of the ash grain comes through.
> 
> And yes, GraphTech saddles can be retrofit onto Hipshot bridges. LGM has already built a blue quilt 8-string with a GraphTech piezo system on a Hipshot 8-string bridge.



If it looked anything like that, I'd just buy it, credit cards be damned.


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## JPMDan

hell yea thats one sick design darren.


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## nyck

That's a pretty cool design Darren. There's something I don't like about it though...


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## JPMDan

Tone knob needs to go, add a 3 way toggle and a neck pickup and I'm in!!!


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## JJ Rodriguez

nyck said:


> That's a pretty cool design Darren. There's something I don't like about it though...




The upper horn almost kills it for me, other than that it's awesome.


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## W4D

darren said:


> If it looked something like this, i'd have to leave my credit card in a locked vault to which i do not have the combination.



Does someone make that?


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## Chris

I believe that's photoshop, sir. 

RG body shape = sex.


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## W4D

had to ask


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## JPMDan

Chris said:


> I believe that's photoshop, sir.



Adobe Illustrator


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## bostjan

JPMDan said:


> Tone knob needs to go, add a 3 way toggle and a neck pickup and I'm in!!!


Well, you could always have it routed for the second pickup and replace the tone with a toggle. If the finish is matte black, it wouldn't be hard to match for touch-up. That way for another $250 you could have your second pickup and everyone else could have what they can afford.

Just a suggestion.


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## JPMDan

sounds like an idea, thanks for the suggestion bostjan, I just need to know, who really uses a tone knob? it robs the pickup of it's tone and clarity.


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## darren

Nobody makes it (yet) but i'm open to discussions about licensing.


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## bostjan

JPMDan said:


> sounds like an idea, thanks for the suggestion bostjan, I just need to know, who really uses a tone knob? it robs the pickup of it's tone and clarity.



Not me.  If it was a single pickup model, though, it'd need a tone knob, unless you want to sound exactly the same all of the time, which is actually cool, too.


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## darren

JPMDan said:


> sounds like an idea, thanks for the suggestion bostjan, I just need to know, who really uses a tone knob? it robs the pickup of it's tone and clarity.


I do use it from time to time. I recently rolled off the tone on my JP7 in the studio when tracking a little solo part. I was able to get a nice singing Santana-esque tone with it rolled off about half way.


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## bostjan

darren said:


> Nobody makes it (yet) but i'm open to discussions about licensing.



You should make a prototype, Darren.


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## zimbloth

well generally rolling down the volume knob would do enough, unless its an EMG, which it is. i think i got flammed for talking about the tone knob subject many months ago tho so, lets not go there Dan


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## JPMDan

Just curious about who uses it thats all.


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## zimbloth

Yeah, I forget who, but I know some do  I definitely like that 8-string design, I think it looks cool with the one pickup and would be cool with no tone circuit.


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## darren

[]


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## JPMDan

oh man that looks so complete now

[action=JPMDan]pulls out credit card and waves it in air waiting for Halo to make this guitar[/action]


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## noodles

If you don't want a tone knob, just rewire it to remove it from the circuit. There are plenty of us in the guitar community that think leaving out the tone knob is like leaving out the volume knob.


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## David

JPMDan said:


> Just curious about who uses it thats all.


I use the tone knob quite a bit. Definately a lot during rhythm. Play a chord, and then do some arpeggiating within it. You want to hold the chord, yet have each note ring out a little more than the rest, so you turn the tone knob down, and it sounds perfect. With it all the way up, errr, it's too shrilling!


Darren, that is beautiful! I say... you get that sucker into CAD and go pay some money to get that sucker milled in a CNC, then just piece it together.


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## zimbloth

Humbuckers shouldnt be shrill with the tone all the way up. To each their own though.



noodles said:


> There are plenty of us in the guitar community that think leaving out the tone knob is like leaving out the volume knob.



Really? Wow... for the life of me I can't figure out how that's possible, but much respect to you guys


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## Chris

darren said:


> Okay, for you two-pickup-no-tone-control motherfuckers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And i say the word "motherfuckers" in the most loving possible way.



Give that fucker an RG body shape. Do it. Do it. 

C'mon.

Do it.






Do it.


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## bostjan

I hate volume knobs.


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## JPMDan

Chris said:


> Give that fucker an RG body shape. Do it. Do it.
> 
> C'mon.
> 
> Do it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do it.



I already tried, he rather make his own Designs.


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## David

Chris said:


> Give that fucker an RG body shape. Do it. Do it.
> 
> C'mon.
> 
> Do it.
> 
> Do it.


Actually, I really like the shape of Darren's. It's original, and it is along the lines of the RG. Looks comfortable!


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## zimbloth

Why? Don't be original. Conform. What would Zod advocate? Ask yourself that, ass!


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## darren

[]


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## JPMDan

darren said:


> ... and this one's just for noodles:



Fixed it buddy


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## David

darren said:


> ... and this one's just for noodles:


NO! put it away! quick! he'll see! 



ooh, and zim, try fooling around with the tone knob a little. Not a lot of people use it, but those who do, can do some cool things with it. JP, uses it in a lot of his riffs.


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## darren

... and i've never really liked RGs. So there.


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## Scott

I think a maple board would look like pure sex on that body finish. That's what the lefty proto should look like 



We've all agreed on the proto being a lefty right?


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## zimbloth

ok noow THATS sick. no no no the ebony board looks gorgeous


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## darren

[]


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## David

Scott said:


> I think a maple board would look like pure sex on that body finish. That's what the lefty proto should look like
> 
> 
> 
> We've all agreed on the proto being a lefty right?


too twangy...


and too canadian.


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## JPMDan

David said:


> and too canadian.


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## nyck

David said:


> too twangy...
> 
> 
> and too canadian.


Too twangy? Nah, a bolt on neck won't have 'that' much of an affect on tone compared to say a neck thru.


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## JPMDan

W4D are you still working on a body style or do you have one already?


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## darren

[]


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## W4D

JPMDan said:


> W4D are you still working on a body style or do you have one already?



Still working on some hand sketches


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## JPMDan

Can you describe what body style are you going for?


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## W4D

JPMDan said:


> Can you describe what body style are you going for?




I away from my original idea that I had which was way over the top.

I decided to keep it basic. 

I know most people that will play an eight string would rather have a strat / rg style body. So keeping that in mind I am making something simular to those.


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## JPMDan

Kool, I cant wait to see it.


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## David

nyck said:


> Too twangy? Nah, a bolt on neck won't have 'that' much of an affect on tone compared to say a neck thru.


no, a maple fretboard... is too twangy. I like bolt on necks a lot more than neckthroughs.


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## nyck

David said:


> no, a maple fretboard... is too twangy. I like bolt on necks a lot more than neckthroughs.


Whatever you say buddy!


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## JPMDan

I agree Maple is a bit on the twangy side but compliments dark sounding pickups.


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## nyck

Are you designing a completly new headstock or are you gonna be using the same basic style you have on the other Halos?


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## W4D

nyck said:


> Are you designing a completly new headstock or are you gonna be using the same basic style you have on the other Halos?



I am using our new head stock. Just on teh proto type. Our line will be changing drastically through out the year and in January will look different all around. 

The new head stock is in the middle of its copywrite and patent

Is a huge head stock think of a cross breed of DEAN / ROBIN / BC RICH

I will post a couple different sketches. I have one that is all straight lines I dont think you will liek it buy will show it any way. And I am sure none of you will like the head stock with this body but as i said justa drawing with new head stock


----------



## Mykie

W4D said:


> I am using our new head stock. Just on teh proto type. Our line will be changing drastically through out the year and in January will look different all around.
> 
> The new head stock is in the middle of its copywrite and patent
> 
> Is a huge head stock think of a cross breed of DEAN / ROBIN / BC RICH
> 
> I will post a couple different sketches. I have one that is all straight lines I dont think you will liek it buy will show it any way. And I am sure none of you will like the head stock with this body but as i said justa drawing with new head stock



Sounds sic, never used a Halo guitar before, some of my friends rock em in their bands and what not.


----------



## W4D

HERE ARE SOEM DRAWINGS NUMBER THREE WILL BE AT JULY SUMMER SESSION NAMM THE PROTO TYPE IN A SIX STRING. I DONT THINK YOU WILL LIKE THE HEAD STOCK BUT THAT IS OUR NEW ONE WHEN I AM DONE WITH A NEW HEAD STOCK FOR YOU GUYS I WILL POST IT


----------



## JPMDan

how about RG Body but with Warlock Horns?


----------



## nyck

I can't say I'm liking the headstock, but I really like the body of #1 and #2. Maybe this could be a compact body style.

How do the strings work on that headstock design? I would imagine they would get in the way of each other.


----------



## W4D

Tell you guys what. You come up with a head stock for seven string . org I will put it on the eight string guitar. ad under Halo it will say SevenString.org or ss.org something like that


----------



## darren

The second one is looking a bit like a Jackson Collen Archtop, which is kinda cool, but looks quite conservative as a first draft, and doesn't suit the headstock very well.

The third one is very reminiscent of a Silvertone Apocalypse front end with a Fernandes Ravelle back end, but it's an intriguing shape if it's in proportion to the neck and headstock (which it isn't just yet).

The Razorback V design is cool, but i think Dean might want to keep that one for themselves. 

The headstock is a bit iffy for me... since i'm not a trem user, i prefer straight string pull from the nut for better tuning stability. Splayed designs like yours and the Dean "V" headstock and Robin's asymmetrical V don't appeal to me at all.

But that's just one man's opinion.


----------



## nyck

What about my design? 







And are you absolutly sure you don't want to do a maple fretboard Waylon?


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> The second one is looking a bit like a Jackson Collen Archtop, which is kinda cool, but looks quite conservative as a first draft, and doesn't suit the headstock very well.
> 
> The third one is very reminiscent of a Silvertone Apocalypse front end with a Fernandes Ravelle back end, but it's an intriguing shape if it's in proportion to the neck and headstock (which it isn't just yet).
> 
> The Razorback V design is cool, but i think Dean might want to keep that one for themselves.
> 
> The headstock is a bit iffy for me... since i'm not a trem user, i prefer straight string pull from the nut for better tuning stability. Splayed designs like yours and the Dean "V" headstock and Robin's asymmetrical V don't appeal to me at all.
> 
> But that's just one man's opinion.




Yeah like I said the head stock will change for the 8 just posted something about it to all of you.


----------



## JPMDan

I like Nyck's headstock and darren's bodystyle, what do you guys think?


----------



## W4D

nyck said:


> What about my design?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And are you absolutly sure you don't want to do a maple fretboard Waylon?




I dig your head stock. If I have your permission to place it on the guitar I will work with it. Email me at [email protected] and will work out all the stuff


----------



## darren

That headstock looks a lot like LGM's 8-string headstock, and the top three strings don't pull in a straight line the way the bottom 5 do.


----------



## JPMDan

darren said:


> That headstock looks a lot like LGM's 8-string headstock, and the top three strings don't pull in a straight line the way the bottom 5 do.



it's just a design for the headstock shape for now, working out the bugs should be the next step. Also we can go with the 4 + 4 headstock to avoid any thing with LGM.


----------



## Scott

darren said:


> That headstock looks a lot like LGM's 8-string headstock, and the top three strings don't pull in a straight line the way the bottom 5 do.



Agreed about the LGM headstock. I was going to say something sooner, but was too lazy to go and get a pic of the LGM headstock.

I'm still too lazy. Carry on.


----------



## nyck

Alright, here's what it looks like on the body style. This is all rough of course.






The bottom of the LGM design is a little bit longer than this one. It's also more curvy as well.


----------



## JPMDan

try the 4+4 on the other body so we can compare nyck.


----------



## nyck

JPMDan said:


> try the 4+4 on the other body so we can compare nyck.


The 4+4 design won't really work physically because the top right tuner would get in the way of the next tuner. I personally think the 5+3 looks better anyways.

Here's LGM's design. Pretty different if you ask me.


----------



## W4D

nyck said:


> The 4+4 design won't really work physically because the top right tuner would get in the way of the next tuner. I personally think the 5+3 looks better anyways.
> 
> Here's LGM's design. Pretty different if you ask me.




Different to me.

They do have 5 and 3 that is about it. Look at Jackson, Dean Z's, Kramers, Ibanez's all simular but they are all different.


----------



## darren

[]


----------



## JPMDan

Bottom horn needs some work for fret access but thats a sweet guitar definitely dig the white finish.


----------



## nyck

Wow that's very sweet Darren. I think the bottom cutaway needs work though...


----------



## darren

W4D said:


> Different to me.
> 
> They do have 5 and 3 that is about it. Look at Jackson, Dean Z's, Kramers, Ibanez's all simular but they are all different.


To be fair, my rendering on that illustration isn't very faithful to how they actually came out. Jeremy couldn't get me good photos of them as he was developing them so i guesstimated and tried to get the tuners all to have straight string pull... the production headstock is a little wider and the top three strings pull a bit to the right.

It was just an observation, not a critique.


----------



## Shannon

darren said:


> I need to stop giving myself ideas...


Dude that's sick! I would definately buy that. Slim the lower horn back for more access & drop the volume knob down an inch. I tend to nail the knob with my picking hand if it's too close to the strings.


----------



## nyck

Here's a real LGM 8 headstock. 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/BlueGrot/headstock.jpg


----------



## darren

Well, that's more or less the way the cutaway is on the original.


----------



## Shannon

darren said:


> Well, that's the way the cutaway is on the original.


I know that, silly. Tweak it, Mr. Photoshop guru!


----------



## W4D

Well you guys I am off to the house. 

Talk to you all tommorrow. I will have some other sketches then with the correct head stock. 

Lets just say give me till the end of November to get the finished product ready. i will use the Number two body basically with some modifications. 

Laters. And nice work Darren. Maybe you can do me a photo-shop version of the Halo 8 string and I will post it pu on the site. As things to Come.


----------



## nyck

Alrighty Waylon.


What does everyone think of this design? I call it a moon-cut.


----------



## JPMDan

eh, I'm not feeling that body style nor the ones that W4D did. I really like Darren's designs though.


----------



## Chris

W4D said:


> I away from my original idea that I had which was way over the top.
> 
> I decided to keep it basic.
> 
> I know most people that will play an eight string would rather have a strat / rg style body. So keeping that in mind I am making something simular to those.



Good plan. A lot of people like the wild shapes, but I think a lot more prefer something a bit more basic.


----------



## Chris

nyck said:


> Alrighty Waylon.
> 
> 
> What does everyone think of this design? I call it a moon-cut.



Not liking the curved ends. Too stratty, looks cheap.


----------



## Papa Shank

A version of my Ergo bodyshape would be pretty sweet if you ask me ;P




Ah...brings back fond memories :'(


----------



## Nik




----------



## W4D

Nik said:


>




cool body although i kinda feel the lower cut a way should be a little deeper what you think


----------



## JPMDan

I agree about the lower cutaway, headstock is similar to Conklin's


----------



## noodles

darren said:


> ... and this one's just for noodles:



I never was a fan of the Carvin "reverse Rhoads" style. I'd totally be into that if it was flipped, though.



darren said:


> I need to stop giving myself ideas...



 I want!

FYI: Not all the Collens have a lower cutaway as shallow as the yellow one has. Mine has much more access.


----------



## darren

Yours looks a lot more like the earlier prototype ones. I think the new ones are 24 frets, vs. your 29-fretter.

Damn, i love that guitar.


----------



## JPMDan

Papa Shank said:


> A version of my Ergo bodyshape would be pretty sweet if you ask me ;P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah...brings back fond memories :'(


----------



## W4D

Ok I am not to good with photo shop but what you all think I went with white cause seemed to be easier on photo shop for me


----------



## JPMDan

Hell yes I like it alot, looks great in white too.


----------



## noodles

darren said:


> Yours looks a lot more like the earlier prototype ones. I think the new ones are 24 frets, vs. your 29-fretter.



You are correct. Mine is one of the original prototypes, and doesn't even have a serial number. It shares several things in common with Phil's: 29 frets, Kahler trem, and rounded headstock tip.

Looking good, W4D.


----------



## Nik

W4D said:


> cool body although i kinda feel the lower cut a way should be a little deeper what you think



That's cause the cutaway ends at the 24th fret, so you still have easy access to the 24th fret, and the rest are just for tapping, so the cutaway does not need to extend to the rest of the frets.

Some comments on the photoshop design you posted:

The headstock looks just like a Leviathan's, maybe with a hint of Ibanez sprinkled in it. I've personally never been a big fan of the eagle's-beak thing Leviathan headstocks have going on-if you want to rip some company off, I'd say go for Conklin, that's what I do with my headstock designs because their headstocks look great and accomodate 8-tuners really well  Looking at the other Halo models, I think slightly modified version of the existing headstock shapes on other Halo guitars would work pretty well, too.

I don't like how the lower horn is rounded but the upper is really sharp. I suppose it's original, but a more cohesive design would work much better IMO.


----------



## W4D

Nik said:


> That's cause the cutaway ends at the 24th fret, so you still have easy access to the 24th fret, and the rest are just for tapping, so the cutaway does not need to extend to the rest of the frets.
> 
> Some comments on the photoshop design you posted:
> 
> The headstock looks just like a Leviathan's, maybe with a hint of Ibanez sprinkled in it. I've personally never been a big fan of the eagle's-beak thing Leviathan headstocks have going on-if you want to rip some company off, I'd say go for Conklin, that's what I do with my headstock designs because their headstocks look great and accomodate 8-tuners really well  Looking at the other Halo models, I think slightly modified version of the existing headstock shapes on other Halo guitars would work pretty well, too.
> 
> I don't like how the lower horn is rounded but the upper is really sharp. I suppose it's original, but a more cohesive design would work much better IMO.










[/QUOTE]





That is the HALO 8 and the LGM you are talking of and Nyck's Design from Seven Sring . org whom I got the idea of the head stock from. Ealier in teh threads this was discussed and i am going to point it out again it is not an LGM head stock and I am not RIPPING ANYONE OFF. This guitar is being made for seven string .org members first and formost. As not many others will purchse it since it is as stated an 8 string.

As for the lower horn being round and different. Yes it is different, I was trying not be to typical ona shape but yet still remain classic for ya'll. That is what you guys like. If you all would rather see it pointed on the lower horn as well let me know and i will change it before I start making this guitar.


----------



## noodles

W4D said:


> As for the lower horn being round and different. Yes it is different, I was trying not be to typical ona shape but yet still remain classic for ya'll. That is what you guys like. If you all would rather see it pointed on the lower horn as well let me know and i will change it before I start making this guitar.



I think that both horns should be round, or pointed, but not one of each. It makes it look unbalanced. Personally, I lean toward rounding out both horns. The upper horn doesn't need to be as round as the lower one, but at least take the point off of it.


----------



## jtm45

Looks really nice W4D.

That headstock does look a LOT like the LGM one though, there's no denying that.
I wouldn't imagine there'd be any 'issues' with it though as i'm not sure if LGM have copyright on that shape or anything (but i could be wrong!).

Looks beautiful in White but i thought the more popular choice was matte-black ?
Or perhaps that could be the options. White or Matte-Black with an ebony board. That way you would please just about everyone 

Nice work W4D



noodles said:


> The upper horn doesn't need to be as round as the lower one, but at least take the point off of it.


 
That top one is a little too 'sharp' isn't it.


----------



## JPMDan

jtm45 said:


> That top one is a little too 'sharp' isn't it.


----------



## Nik

noodles said:


> I think that both horns should be round, or pointed, but not one of each. It makes it look unbalanced. Personally, I lean toward rounding out both horns. The upper horn doesn't need to be as round as the lower one, but at least take the point off of it.



Maybe something more like the attached image... ?


----------



## JPMDan

Nik said:


> The headstock looks just like a Leviathan's, maybe with a hint of Ibanez sprinkled in it.



LGM's is a thinner headstock with a 5+3 design with the right corner rounded for that "beak" style, nyck's idea is wider and isnt round so it's not exactly a "beak"



Nik said:


> Maybe something more like the attached image... ?



I like that one Alot better good work


----------



## W4D

jtm45 said:


> Looks really nice W4D.
> 
> That headstock does look a LOT like the LGM one though, there's no denying that.
> I wouldn't imagine there'd be any 'issues' with it though as i'm not sure if LGM have copyright on that shape or anything (but i could be wrong!).
> 
> Looks beautiful in White but i thought the more popular choice was matte-black ?
> Or perhaps that could be the options. White or Matte-Black with an ebony board. That way you would please just about everyone
> 
> Nice work W4D
> 
> 
> That top one is a little too 'sharp' isn't it.



*Head Stock*

(NYCK's)(Which is the one on here) The top starts with a gradual curve from the neck, then a direct turn which goes straight and comes to a sharp stop, then straight line down which meets with lower curve. Which is not as sharp of a curve either as the LGM. Plus the lower part of teh head stock also starts with a gradual curve directly from the neck.
Also is 4 a side.

(LMG's) The top goes on for about an inch or more before it starts a sharp short curve. Which turns to a straight line, the curves down in a beak like fashion and meets the lower curve which is sharper also than Nyck's design. Plus the bottom of the head stock also goes for about an inch or more before curves as well.
5 & 3 on the sides

As for the body is this better I rounded teh top horn off


----------



## darren

Where should i send the invoice for my design and consulting fees?


----------



## Shannon

Waylon,
Sign me up for an endorsement! Better yet, make a 7-string version of it as well. That thing is AWESOME & I want it!

Are you planning to have side/arm contours as well?


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> Where should i send the invoice for my design and consulting fees?




AND WHICH DESIGN ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT.

HERE IS MINE  






HERE IS YOURS










THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT

I KNOW YOU ARE KIDDING JUST BEING SILLY MYSELF


----------



## JPMDan

nik's modifications are better looking, it's a RG/Strat style horns

I dont like the headstock though


----------



## guitarjitsumaster

That is HoT!


----------



## W4D

Well I shall order the materials and get started. Hey Chris you still want dibs on the Proto-Type.


----------



## noodles

JPMDan said:


> I dont like the headstock though



That headstock is a PRS lawsuit waiting to happen.


----------



## Scott

What's Chris going to do with a left handed prototype?


----------



## Shannon

noodles said:


> That headstock is a PRS lawsuit waiting to happen.


Yep. Stick to what ya got. Making a $1000 8-string available will be a great business venture because no one else offers it. Good job, sir.


----------



## darren

Well, i'd appreciate it if you didn't take the image i created, remove my copyright notice and use it for your own purposes.

That is all.


----------



## JPMDan

noodles said:


> That headstock is a PRS lawsuit waiting to happen.



And he was talking about nyck's headstock being too much like LGM's


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> Well, i'd appreciate it if you didn't take the image i created, remove my copyright notice and use it for your own purposes.
> 
> That is all.



which image are you talking about. Sir.

are you talking about the

EMG image
Hip Shot image
Tuners image


----------



## JPMDan

he's talking about you taking his creation and modifying the guitar to your specs and removing his copyright from it.



JPMDan said:


>



I may have to get this made for me but with nyck's headstock, would that be possible later on this year W4D?


----------



## darren

I did not take those images from EMG or Hipshot. I created vector drawings of them myself, and i use them to create visual mockups for my clients. I do not claim to have ownership of any design patents for Hipshot's bridge or EMG's pickup design. But i am free to make drawings of them and use them in my own compositions. My drawings are protected by copyright. You took my image and modified it, removing my copyright notice. That, sir, is breaking the law.

(... and people wonder why i watermark my images)

I do these things for the benefit of the community here, to spark discussion and ignite people's imaginations. I do not expect my work to be stolen.

I mean, how would you feel if somebody took one of your guitars, modified it and then re-sold it under their own brand name? Oh, wait...


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> I did not take those images from EMG or Hipshot. I illustrated them myself, and i use them to create visual mockups for my clients. You took my image and modified it, removing my copyright notice. (... and people wonder why i watermark my images). That, sir, is breaking the law.
> 
> I mean, how would you feel if somebody took one of your guitars, modified it and then re-sold it under their own brand name? Oh, wait...




Sorry sir did not know that you did not get those from EMG, HipShot, or AllParts. I will glady remove them. 

Jeesh try and do something for all of you and I get reemed. And for a second I though Darren was actually being cool.


----------



## nyck

I like the new design "el ocho". I think it would look even cooler if it was about 3/4 of the current size. Sorry, just a little fetish of mine...


----------



## JPMDan

Waylon, it's not the EMG, Hipshot stuff it's the guitar shape that he's talking about..... I think.


----------



## nyck

So do I get any money for letting you use my headstock design? Maybe a free el ocho prototype to test and review  lol


----------



## Scott

Only if you own the rights to that design. 

No? Awee too bad...Should have planned ahead


----------



## JPMDan

OUCH.....


----------



## nyck




----------



## darren

Waylon, it's not about "being cool." It's about business.

My business is graphic design. My work (and anyone's work for that matter) is protected under international copyright treaties. By taking my work (without my permission), modifying it and passing it off as your own (without acknowledgement or compensation), you are stealing my intellectual property, and therefore, breaking the law.

If we were just sharing ideas or playing Photoshop tennis, that's one thing, but you're taking my work and using it in a commercial context.


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> I did not take those images from EMG or Hipshot. I created vector drawings of them myself, and i use them to create visual mockups for my clients. I do not claim to have ownership of any design patents for Hipshot's bridge or EMG's pickup design. But i am free to make drawings of them and use them in my own compositions. My drawings are protected by copyright. You took my image and modified it, removing my copyright notice. That, sir, is breaking the law.
> 
> (... and people wonder why i watermark my images)
> 
> I do these things for the benefit of the community here, to spark discussion and ignite people's imaginations. I do not expect my work to be stolen.
> 
> I mean, how would you feel if somebody took one of your guitars, modified it and then re-sold it under their own brand name? Oh, wait...




There you go Darren I used actuall images from EMG, HIPSHOT, and the Tuner Images are from GROVER.

Hope you are happy. Was no big bother I did not think. *I apologize.* For asking to use your Pick Up Image, tuner image, or hipshot image. 

*I HAVED REMOVED ALL IMAGES I MADE USING YOU DESIGN IMAGES OF ITEMS SUCH AS EMG, HIPSHOT, AND TUNERS. AND REPLACED THEM WITH ACTUAL IMAGES FROM HIPSHOT, EMG, GROVER*


----------



## darren

It's not just about the components. There's also the matter of the body, strings, frets and fretboard, which you also used.


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> It's not just about the components. There's also the matter of the body, strings, frets and fretboard, which you also used.



Um sir i have the psd file on me 

The body, Fret board and strings are all original TRUST ME on that

EVERY THING ON ALL THESE PICTURES ON THIS FORUM ARE ALL ORGINAL AND SIR I HAVE THE .PSD THAT SHOWS ALL OF IT. 

AS STATED EALIER
PICK UP IMAGE is from EMG
TUNER IMAGE is from GROVER
BRIDGE is from HIP SHOT

The Knob is just a circle
The guitars body, head stock, neck done free hand on a drawing and scanned in using my HP Office jet K80 and then I colord in and added The Halo logo and images and strings using photoshop (ELEMENTS) 
DOES THAT CLEAR IT UP or shall we take this further. 

See now this started as a nice thread something special for all of you on seven string


----------



## XEN

Here Waylon. Here's an 8 string headstock. The top is loosely modeled after the top of your new 'H' logo. If you like it, it's yours. If you don't like it or don't want to use it, I will in no way be put out or offended. If you need or want help on refining the body design, let me know, and I can throw some sketches together and maybe even draw out a full-scale design.

I just want to see this 8 string happen and not have the process gummed up by foolishness. I was, as I'm sure many others were as well, under the impression that this was a community effort.

EDIT: I'm in no way saying that I do not like the headstock design currently pictured, but as some have brought up the issue of similarities with others I thought I'd post something ever so slightly different.


----------



## W4D

urklvt said:


> Here Waylon. Here's an 8 string headstock. The top is loosely modeled after the top of your new 'H' logo. If you like it, it's yours. If you don't like it or don't want to use it, I will in no way be put out or offended. If you need or want help on refining the body design, let me know, and I can throw some sketches together and maybe even draw out a full-scale design.
> 
> I just want to see this 8 string happen and not have the process gummed up by foolishness. I was, as I'm sure many others were as well, under the impression that this was a community effort.
> 
> EDIT: I'm in no way saying that I do not like the headstock design currently pictured, but as some have brought up the issue of similarities with others I thought I'd post something ever so slightly different.




Thanks I like that alot, as I do the one Nyck mad as well. I will think it over. Thanks for the effort you did in putting work in to it and if I need ya I will indeed ask. Again Thank you so much. I wanna see this happen as well. As for foolishness  eh.... it seems anytime I post something. Foolishness follows.  I was just trying to do something special for all of you.  

You all have stated how you wish an eight string was affordable. And I just figured I would try and help out.  

99.9% of all you have always been kind and never anything else. But hey there is always that 1% anytime in anything that we all do.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

There's a typo in your picture, it says bridge, Hip Shop. We all know what you're talking about, but in case you post it at your site, I thought I'd tell ya.


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> There's a typo in your picture, it says bridge, Hip Shop. We all know what you're talking about, but in case you post it at your site, I thought I'd tell ya.



Thanks. I probly will not post it anywhere alse but here. Till I am done with the real one.


----------



## nyck

So I'm assuming the body will be rounded off like the joe satriani signature?

It will still be matte black right?

Who's getting the prototype?


----------



## JPMDan

I think that Chris should get the prototype, he's the owner of the forum after all.


----------



## W4D

JPMDan said:


> I think that Chris should get the prototype, he's the owner of the forum after all.



Chris said he had first dibs on the Proto-Type. So he gets the first offer. 



nyck said:


> So I'm assuming the body will be rounded off like the joe satriani signature?
> 
> It will still be matte black right?



Yes still Matte Black.

So you guys want this thin or what?


----------



## nyck

JPMDan said:


> I think that Chris should get the prototype, he's the owner of the forum after all.


 he made like 2 posts in this thread.

Maybe he really wants it, who knows.


----------



## XEN

Standard 1.75" thickness is fine. Maybe a comfort bevel on the back would be cool, but otherwise keep it simple.


----------



## JPMDan

nyck said:


> he made like 2 posts in this thread.
> 
> Maybe he really wants it, who knows.



Well you can't expect him to be deeply involved with everything now can you


----------



## Durero

Nik said:


>


Cool design Nik  

I hope it is helpful of me to point out a technical problem with your sketch which you would need to solve before building it. You've listed 36 frets in your specs but there's no room for more than 22 - 24 frets the way you've proportioned the body and included a neck pickup. To have 36 frets you'll need a much deeper cutaway and you'll have to extend the fretboard until it's close to the bridge pickup - with no room for a neck pickup at all.

If you have a 25.5" scale guitar already, you can show yourself where the 36th fret would be by measuring 1/2 the distance from the 12th fret to the bridge (which will get you to the 24th fret position), and then again 1/2 the distance from that point (24th fret) to the bridge (which will get you to the 36th fret position).
To find where the 36th fret would be at a 27" scale, do the same process from the 11th fret instead (on your 25.5" guitar).

At any rate I'd totally encourage you to pursue your design and get it built.

cheers!


----------



## Nik

Durero said:


> Cool design Nik
> 
> I hope it is helpful of me to point out a technical problem with your sketch which you would need to solve before building it. You've listed 36 frets in your specs but there's no room for more than 22 - 24 frets the way you've proportioned the body and included a neck pickup. To have 36 frets you'll need a much deeper cutaway and you'll have to extend the fretboard until it's close to the bridge pickup - with no room for a neck pickup at all.



The neck would be longer on the real thing-I ran out of paper so I had to shorten the neck, lol. And as for the frets extending into the body, I suppose I could settle for a bit less than 36-36 is a little too high-pitched anyway 

URKLVT - I love what you did with the headstock! Maybe you should fix the body, too, cause personally I'm not digging it at all right now.

I think a small-body 6-string bass guitar shape would be cool (and keep the guitar from being unbalanced because of the huge neck...)


----------



## JPMDan

W4D what kind of neck profile are we looking at with this guitar?


----------



## W4D

JPMDan said:


> Waylon, it's not the EMG, Hipshot stuff it's the guitar shape that he's talking about..... I think.




Nah he was talking about the EMG stuff.

The guitar body is 100% original I scanned it in from a drawing.


----------



## XEN

Nik said:


> URKLVT - I love what you did with the headstock! Maybe you should fix the body, too, cause personally I'm not digging it at all right now.



Waylon has my body design. I'll share it if he wants me to. For now, I'm off to bed. It's late here.


----------



## nyck

Not sure about thickness. Maybe 1.5 inches thick? I think it'd be sweet if it was rounded off like this:
http://www.umenaka.com/syasin/syasin/Ibz JS1000BTB.50.jpg

Maybe?


----------



## JPMDan

Nik said:


> URKLVT - I love what you did with the headstock! Maybe you should fix the body, too, cause personally I'm not digging it at all right now.



The body you made is Shredtastic man, I totally love it.


We need to pick like like 3 bodies or whatever and decide which one is the one thats going to be made, then figure out the final specs then find out who's seriously in on this deal.


----------



## W4D

urklvt said:


> Waylon has my body design. I'll share it if he wants me to. For now, I'm off to bed. It's late here.




Have a good sleep. thanks for the ideas I will look everything over tonight


----------



## Durero

Nik said:


> The neck would be longer on the real thing-I ran out of paper so I had to shorten the neck, lol. And as for the frets extending into the body, I suppose I could settle for a bit less than 36-36 is a little too high-pitched anyway


I hear ya, maybe it'd be more helpful to put it this way: with a 27" scale you could fit 25frets without sacrificing your neck pickup and the general proportion of your body shape and cut-aways.

You can also get more frets without affecting your pickup placement or body design by making the scale even longer. For example, 30" will get you 27 frets and 34" will get you 29 frets. I use a 36" - 32" fan and 31 frets - maybe a bit on the long side, but I like it (I'm probably a wannabe bassist deep inside ).


----------



## noodles

Durero said:


> You can also get more frets without affecting your pickup placement or body design by making the scale even longer. For example, 30" will get you 27 frets and 34" will get you 29 frets. I use a 36" - 32" fan and 31 frets - maybe a bit on the long side, but I like it (I'm probably a wannabe bassist deep inside ).



I'm not as concerned with the number of frets on the Halo (24 is fine by me), but 30" scale is an absolute must if it will be tuned to F#. A 27" scale is just not going to cut it for that low string. Now, if it is adding a high A, then 25.5" would be perfect.


----------



## JPMDan

30" is a fucking long scale man HOLY POOP.....


----------



## Seedawakener

I dont get it, which is the shape that will be used?


----------



## JPMDan

W4D said:


>



As far as I know it's this body that we're going with.


----------



## nyck

27" is the perfect compromise. An .085 will be needed for a tight F#, but a .080 will do as well.


----------



## Durero

JPMDan said:


> 30" is a fucking long scale man HOLY POOP.....


No way dude! 
just imagine a playing a bass capo'd at the 2nd fret with a set of thin little guitar strings on it and that's what it'd feel like. Bass players play 34" and longer scales with higher tension strings & higher action than guitarists without much trouble.
Anyhow I'm not trying to start any arguments - just jumping at the chance to express my fetish for super long scale lengths!


----------



## JPMDan

Durero said:


> No way dude!
> just imagine a playing a bass capo'd at the 2nd fret with a set of thin little guitar strings on it and that's what it'd feel like. Bass players play 34" and longer scales with higher tension strings & higher action than guitarists without much trouble.
> Anyhow I'm not trying to start any arguments - just jumping at the chance to express my fetish for super long scale lengths!



dude I have small hands took me awhile to adjust to a 7 string 27" scale a 30" scale 8 string thats off the wall man.


----------



## Nik

I agree with JPMDan, 30" is waaay too much. Keep in mind we are talking about a *guitar*, not a bass. Since this is a guitar, it should feel as much as a normal guitar and thus the scale should be as short as possible without compromising the low F#.

If you make a 30" production 8-string, I can guarantee that it would be a flop and sell really bad because a lot of people would be put off by the scale. Not everybody has giant hands, and not everybody likes the feel of bass guitars (and those who like the feel of bass guitars usually play bass  )

My 0.02 cents.


----------



## Seedawakener

JPMDan said:


> As far as I know it's this body that we're going with.



In that case... I dont want to be a pain in the ass, but I dont like it at all. Just my honest opinion, it should be a bit "edgier".


----------



## noodles

What do you guys think the Ibanez 8-strings Meshauggah, Dino, and Rusty play are? They're 30" scale instruments, so the low F# will intonate properly. The Blackmachine B8? 30" scale. Just look how far back the bridge sits:









Here is an excerpt from the Blackmachine site:



> This is the most fundamental aspect of the design. It defines the character of the whole instrument. The main objective is good response for all strings. Problems generated here are often impossible to engineer out later so this subject requires careful consideration.
> 
> Long scale gives the benefit of more sustain due to increased tension. Bottom and top end harmonics are boosted but mids are reduced. So there is more cut and boom but the sound is twangier, purer. Short scale gives fatter mids with less bottom and top end. You can get loads of character this way due to the abundance of midrange harmonics to which the ear is most sensitive.
> 
> If you hear long and short scale guitars acoustically together you will notice the long scale has more piano like highs and crispness but the short scale to be more banjo like. That&#8217;s the easiest way I can describe it.
> 
> I sought an ideal balance between string response, sustain and character. But with a low a F# and high E this was going to be a challenge. An average bass has a .100 gauge tuned to E over 34". But a .100 gauge would be difficult to
> play on a guitar. A .80 would be the limit I suppose.
> 
> But this is tuned to A on a bass and we want to go down 3 or 4 half steps to F# or F and use a shorter scale, both factors bad for tension. I tried it out. I took a Fender short scale bass and tuned it down 4 half steps to C so the A string was at F, and found there was just enough tension for decent string response. Another half step and the tone was gone. That was the limit then. 27" or 28" scale for 8 strings was ruled out, due to unacceptably low tension.
> 
> Going longer to 32" or 33" or so would be great, but I wanted to keep it as playable as I could, keeping the frets as close as possible to each other. I also wanted to be able to use conventional guitar string packs for the high strings. I did not want to go to .008 to achieve low enough tension on long scale for the high E for reasons of reliability.
> 
> Compound scale length is also an excellent solution to the problems of extended range guitar, check out some of the amazing work by Conklin, but I wasn't ready for the culture shock of using fanned frets just yet.
> 
> So 30 inches / 762mm scale was settled upon.



Guys, this is the *only* way to get that low F# intonated properly. We need to decide now if we're going low F# to high E at a 30" scale, or low B to high A in a 25.5" scale. If you want low, then you will have to prepare yourself to accept a completely new instrument. Simply tacking on that extra string to an existing seven string design will not work.

Like Leo said, you just need a little time to adjust to it.


----------



## JPMDan

I totally agree with you the one that Nik did with the better cutaways was perfect.


----------



## Nik

noodles said:


> Guys, this is the *only* way to get that low F# intonated properly. We need to decide now if we're going low F# to high E at a 30" scale, or low B to high A in a 25.5" scale. If you want low, then you will have to prepare yourself to accept a completely new instrument. Simply tacking on that extra string to an existing seven string design will not work.



Didn't nyck (I think it was) put a low F# on his Agile and have it intonate fine? Also, the LGM Leviathan 8-strings are 27" and don't have any issues, I'm pretty sure. 

As nyck said, 27" is a great compromise.


----------



## JPMDan

Also just because Artist wanted their Sig 8's to be 30" or another company is doing it doesnt mean it's the perfect way of doing it. Longer scale thinner strings, shorter scale thicker strings that's how it works.


----------



## W4D

OK all off to the house. I ordered the parts today for the guitar. We will make this happen for all of ya here at Seven String. 

Oh did someone say you guys have a seven string . org guitar idea.

what is it?


----------



## JPMDan

I haven't seen a single thing mentioned about sevenstring.org in this post.


----------



## nyck

Nik said:


> Didn't nyck (I think it was) put a low F# on his Agile and have it intonate fine? Also, the LGM Leviathan 8-strings are 27" and don't have any issues, I'm pretty sure.
> 
> As nyck said, 27" is a great compromise.


Alright, I just spent some time trying to get the F# to intonate on my 27" scale. I moved it all the way back, and it was able to intonate.


----------



## Metal Ken

Conklin seems to have a fine work with the fanned frets for 27 3/4" for their 8 strings. (Course, they used fanned frets for 25" scale for the highest strings and 27 3/4" for the lowest)

Maybe 28" would be a good compromise? Warmoth does that for their 7 string necks as well.. 


And all the dudes complaining about the 30" scale.. have you guys ever actually tried any Baritone 6 strings? Most of them actually come with that scale. its not too bad.. Then again, i barely had any trouble with 27" from 25.5" so that might be that i have larger hands -- though from what i can tell by comparing to everyone else, my hands are pretty averaged sized.


----------



## jtm45

JPMDan said:


> Also just because Artist wanted their Sig 8's to be 30" or another company is doing it doesnt mean it's the perfect way of doing it. Longer scale thinner strings, shorter scale thicker strings that's how it works.



It appears that Doug at Blackmachine,after much trial and experimentation,came to the conclusion that if you want to tune the bottom string to an F or F# then even a 28" scale didn't provide enough tension using an .80 gauge string.
That's why he built the B8 with a 30" scale-length.

Obviously you could use a slightly shorter scale-length but you'd have to use a .90 or something which he found just didn't play/feel enough like a guitar.

Dan.
I've got quite short fingers like yourself mate and i can't even really get on with an Ibanez XL (27") scale on the lower frets so i'd imagine you'd have similar problems.I'm not saying i *can't* play on a 27"scale neck but it just makes things feel uncomfortable to me and interferes with my playing so i wouldn't even consider a 30".

That's one of the reasons (and the fact that 7 is the perfect number of strings for me)i'd never even consider an 8 string.

If i had the fingers for it i might think again but i can't see mine growing anytime soon.Perhaps i could hang weights from them when i'm out and about.  

I envy you guys with Vai-type digits,lol.


----------



## JPMDan

I want to give an 8 a shot and if it doesnt work out for me I'm sure there's going to be a board member would willingly buy it from me.


----------



## nyck

"It appears that Doug at Blackmachine,after much trial and experimentation,came to the conclusion that if you want to tune the bottom string to an F or F# then even a 28" scale didn't provide enough tension using an .80 gauge string.
That's why he built the B8 with a 30" scale-length."

I don't understand this, because I have a .085 on my 27" scale, and it is the perfect tension, especially for triplets.


----------



## JPMDan

nyck said:


> I don't understand this, because I have a .085 on my 27" scale, and it is the perfect tension, especially for triplets.


----------



## noodles

Wow, I guess Ken and I just like it heavier. To me, the .060 low B on my 25.5" scale guitar is feeling too floppy.


----------



## nyck

noodles said:


> Wow, I guess Ken and I just like it heavier. To me, the .060 low B on my 25.5" scale guitar is feeling too floppy.


It should feel floppy. I like a .064 for the B.


----------



## JPMDan

Step it up to .66 or .70 I like the .70 for a low B


----------



## Metal Ken

noodles said:


> Wow, I guess Ken and I just like it heavier. To me, the .060 low B on my 25.5" scale guitar is feeling too floppy.



Hell yeah. .065 bass string on my Groove Tools and a .068 on my RG1077XL. 

If the 8 string became a sound reality, i would have no problem using a badassly heavy string for a low F#.. (Accoriding to a string tension calculator, a .090 bass string would provide 22 lbs of tension at 27" scale, which is about 1 lb more tension than a B String tuned with a .065) but ideally, i'd buy some of Garry Goodman's light strings and tune it ADGCFADG or something


----------



## Metal Ken

Also worth noting for string tension, i did som reasearch on what a set of strings would look like.. in standard tuning there's need to be some odd gauges to make everything smooth out, but this is it roughly. 

E .009" Plain string == 14.72 lbs of tension
B .013" Plain string == 17.25 lbs of tension
G .018" Nickel Wound == 18.03 lbs
D .026" Nickel Wound == 20.63 lbs
A .036" Nickel Wound == 21.9 lbs
E .050" Nickel Wound == 22.93 lbs
B .065 Nickel Wound == 22.29 ;bs
F# .090 Nickel Wound == 22.8 lbs

That'd probably be what i'd use... 

If there was a need for a lighter guage, i'd say something like:

E .008" Plain stirng == 11.64 lbs
B .011" Plain string == 12.34 lbs
G .016" Nickel Wound == 13.96 lbs
D .022" Nickel Wound == 14.96 lbs
A .030" Nickel Wound == 15.75 lbs
E .042" Nickel Wound == 16.56 lbs
B .058 Nickel Wound == 17.85 lbs
F# .080 Nickel Wound == 18.58 lbs


----------



## JPMDan

Metal Ken said:


> Hell yeah. .065 bass string on my Groove Tools and a .068 on my RG1077XL.
> 
> If the 8 string became a sound reality, i would have no problem using a badassly heavy string for a low F#.. (Accoriding to a string tension calculator, a .090 bass string would provide 22 lbs of tension at 27" scale, which is about 1 lb more tension than a B String tuned with a .065) but ideally, i'd buy some of Garry Goodman's light strings and tune it ADGCFADG or something


----------



## NDG

I never really wanted an 8 string, but this thread is giving me the urge.


----------



## noodles

Metal Ken said:


> Also worth noting for string tension, i did som reasearch on what a set of strings would look like.. in standard tuning there's need to be some odd gauges to make everything smooth out, but this is it roughly.



For 27" scale, I assume? Mind cooking those numbers for a 30" scale instrument?

Honestly, Blackmachine's research into a low F# on a 27" scale instrument just makes me reconsider how this instrument should play and sound. If it going to be turn out a killer 7 string with one "eh" low string that is just sorta, you know, there in case you wanna grab it, then I just know I'll be disappointed with. However, if it turns out to sound totally crushing at 30", then I'm willing to deal with that extra length. "Earn it" if you will, like a tattoo.

Dino, Rusty Cooley, and Meshuggah cannot be wrong.


----------



## bostjan

Didn't Meshuggah have some 28 5/8" Nevborns originally? And it wasn't working for the low F? But still, if 30" works for F, then 28.6" can't be bad for F#. If 28.6" is only one fret longer than 27".


----------



## noodles

You know, I can't remember what scale they were. I guess that is what they used on the latest record, right? I keep forgetting they haven't had the Ibbys long.

Dino's new stuff on his sounds extremely tight and focused, though. That just really makes me want that scale, because it didn't sound quite like a guitar. I like that otherness about the sound, like a short scale bass tuned up, but much punchier.


----------



## nyck

noodles said:


> You know, I can't remember what scale they were. I guess that is what they used on the latest record, right? I keep forgetting they haven't had the Ibbys long.
> 
> Dino's new stuff on his sounds extremely tight and focused, though. That just really makes me want that scale, because it didn't sound quite like a guitar. I like that otherness about the sound, like a short scale bass tuned up, but much punchier.


Meshuggah prolly used Ibby 8s on Catch 33 and I know they used Nevborns on Nothing.


----------



## bostjan

Cringes oops long scale lengths rule!


----------



## JPMDan

noodles said:


> like that otherness about the sound, like a short scale bass tuned up, but much punchier.




Aha! this is about what you want, I see through your deviant ways hiding behind technical info  

sorry bro just bustin' your balls


----------



## bostjan

Well, the Nevborn 25.5" eights are tuned ADGCFBbDG. (Why Bb and not A?)

Looking online, it seems people are saying the Nevborns are 27". Hmm, I thought they were longer.


----------



## JPMDan

Shannon has an 8 string from EKGGuitars.com

http://www.ekgguitars.com/galleries/shannonsharp8string/imagepages/Mvc-011f.html


----------



## XEN

My custon neck from Dolan made my s7420 a 28.625" scale. The low F# was slightly floppy on it with a 0.074, but I still love it to death. Waylon, if you're still reading, the 28.625" scale freakin' rules. That's only 2 frets longer than standard.


----------



## bostjan

Hmm, is everyone planning on tuning to low F#?


----------



## Metal Ken

I'd love a high G or high A, but the consensus seems to be 'lower'.
It also seems more realistic to design an insturment tht more people are going after with that in mind... 
I dont think a lot of these people would want a 24.75 or so scale 8 with a low B/High A or something.


----------



## Metal Ken

noodles said:


> For 27" scale, I assume? Mind cooking those numbers for a 30" scale instrument?




Yes they were and Yes i will.. 

apparently a .009 tuned to E will give you approx. 18 lbs of tension, which is damn close to snapping, if it'll even tune that High. it appears that there would have to be some lightass guage strings used the high E... 

A .008 seems to give around 14lbs of tension on 30" which seems acceptable, i'll work from there:

E .008" PL == 14.37 lbs
B .011" PL == 15.24 lbs
G .014" PL == 15.55 lbs
D .022" NW == 18.46 lbs
A .030" NW == 19.45 lbs
E .042" NW == 20.44 lbs
B .056 NW == 20.47 lbs
F# .080 NW == 22.94 lbs

If there's such a guage as a .078, it would give 21 lbs of tension and work abit better, but that mgiht be hard to find.


----------



## bostjan

Yeah, but I'm wondering if anyone just *has* to tune down or do drop E or something. I think it might just be impossible with 27". 27" should be ok for F#, but no lower, plus it could work with a high G, although it'd feel pretty darn tight. At 30", there's no way you could manage a high G, but you could tune down to drop E without it sounding awful.

Anything longer than 30" would be tough on standard tuning, without Garry's strings.

I guess if Meshuggah says 27" is too short, it's too short.

Frankly, whatever scale length it ends up being, I'm sure people here will deal with it. We are a pretty crafty bunch.


----------



## JPMDan

have you tried juststrings.com to see if they had a 78 or close?


----------



## XEN

I've seen nothing but 0.074, 0.080, and 0.090


----------



## W4D

Here is the new image of the 8 String Guitar Halo will be making. It was designed by a fellow member of SevenString.org. 


 URKLVT


----------



## JPMDan

Not bad, I dig it, good work urklvt, I think we should get the option or Black or white finish


----------



## W4D

JPMDan said:


> Not bad, I dig it, good work urklvt, I think we should get the option or Black or white finish



Ok Ok Ok twist my arm. 

Tell you what. I will be making these everytime one is ordered. You can choose any Basic color you like.  

RED, BLACK, WHITE, BLUE, YELLOW, GREEN, ORANGE, and PINK  

Sound good.


----------



## JPMDan

SWEET!! PINK!!!!!!


----------



## theunforgiven246

how about magenta so it'll match my 7420?


----------



## JPMDan

theunforgiven246 said:


> how about magenta so it'll match my 7420?



Now thats pushing your luck lol


----------



## theunforgiven246

i know. i'm actually contemplating this guitar now. it looks pretty good but isnt the bottom horn a bit on the thin side and might be easy to break?


----------



## JPMDan

nah I doubt it, it would have to be really thin to break it easy.


----------



## XEN

The horn is thicker than a Jem's upper horn. It'll be fine. My designs always have extreme access on the higher frets.

Waylon, I'm giddy like a school girl that you liked it. I hope everyone else does too. I can't wait to actually play one.


----------



## JPMDan

man we need to stop trying for different body styles and pick one

Edit: just talked to Shannon about his EKG 8 and he has a 25.5 scale and it works perfectly for him, so the 30" is basically for a certain tone they wanted to achieve.


----------



## David

I dunno about the horns, they seem really wide. The 1 pickup, 1 volume knob is really sketchy to me. If I'm going to buy an 8, well I want it to be an 8! haha. I use my pickups, switch, volume, and tone knobs all the time. In 5 minutes of playing, I usually use all 5 positions on my switch, and either the tone knob or the volume knob. I personally don't have much interest for an 8 that is pretty much bare-bones.


 , just becuase I feel a lot of people might be thinking the same.


----------



## Shannon

With the supply of $1000 8-strings being ZILCH, beggars can't be choosers. Buy it and modifiy it. Sheesh...


----------



## David

Shannon said:


> With the supply of $1000 8-strings being ZILCH, beggars can't be choosers. Buy it and modifiy it. Sheesh...


If I were going to spend $1000 only to add on more... well I'd start from scratch myself. 

Which... I never got my 8 string body and neck back from the shop class at my school. Took fucking FOREVER to make, and now I'm woodless.


----------



## JPMDan

uh David you need to read the specs, it's a Volume and tone it's pull knob you know the 2 in one kind of deal.



David said:


> I'm woodless.



Is that possible!?!?!?


----------



## Scott

David said:


> If I were going to spend $1000 only to add on more... well I'd start from scratch myself.
> 
> Which... I never got my 8 string body and neck back from the shop class at my school. Took fucking FOREVER to make, *and now I'm woodless.*




It comes with age my friend. Some day, your time will come, and you will have a woody to call your own.


----------



## David

JPMDan said:


> uh David you need to read the specs, it's a Volume and tone


gotchya...


and I have a dick, I'll post a pic of it if you'd like.


----------



## Scott

nah, when you zoom in on a pic, it distorts the image, so we wouldn't be able to make anything out anyway


----------



## David

Scott said:


> nah, when you zoom in on a pic, it distorts the image, so we wouldn't be able to make anything out anyway


says the Canadian. We all know Canadians are a reliable source for information and trust. 













!


----------



## darren

I think that whole body needs to be a bit narrower, and the bottom horn a bit thicker so it's more proportional to the upper horn.


----------



## nyck

darren said:


> I think that whole body needs to be a bit narrower, and the bottom horn a bit thicker so it's more proportional to the upper horn.


Agreed.


----------



## darren

Also, i'm not sure push/pull 1000k pots are available for use with EMGs, and i'm not sure you can do push/pull volume/tone without it being a dual pot of some sort. I could be wrong, though.

With EMGs, it might be better to go with a straight single volume control. EMG has a few plug-in EQ/tone controls that would be very easy for the end user to add. Drill one hole, pop it in, hook up one connector and you're done.


----------



## JPMDan

David said:


> gotchya...
> 
> 
> and I have a dick, I'll post a pic of it if you'd like.




you dont want to embarass yourself on the internet now do you?


----------



## jtm45

I thought Shannon got rid of his EKG bodied 8 a long time ago?


----------



## nyck

jtm45 said:


> I thought Shannon got rid of his EKG bodied 8 a long time ago?


...he did.


----------



## JPMDan

I saw it in the EKG gallery and asked him about it, looks like a totally sweet guitar


----------



## bostjan

That design looks more accessable. It does look a tad bit wide, but as long as someone makes a case for it, and it's less than 16" wide, I don't think it matters much playability-wise.

Cheapest way to go: 1 EMG with volume and tone. Not like there is much choice in budget eight string pickups, unless you want to inform us of something new. Push/Pull Volume/Tone is not viable. It just cannot happen, because when you pull to get tone, your volume will just go full blast. Unless it's a dual pot, then it'd be cheaper to use concentric knobs, but as Darren said, they would be expensive and hard to find for EMG's, so just go with one volume and one tone. This way it's open for easier modification, too.

As for finishes, I'll bet you that black would be more popular than all of those other colors combined, but more options is always better.


----------



## XEN

Based on my scale drawings the body is barely 13"-14" wide. It's about 1/2"-1" wider than my S7420. With a decent back bevel the guitar will be extremely comfortable.


----------



## JPMDan

bostjan said:


> Cheapest way to go: 1 EMG with volume and tone. Not like there is much choice in budget eight string pickups, unless you want to inform us of something new. Push/Pull Volume/Tone is not viable. It just cannot happen, because when you pull to get tone, your volume will just go full blast. Unless it's a dual pot, then it'd be cheaper to use concentric knobs, but as Darren said, they would be expensive and hard to find for EMG's, so just go with one volume and one tone. This way it's open for easier modification, too.





Now what neck profile are we shooting for here?


----------



## bostjan

Good question. Extra strings and extra scale mean extra tension, so you wouldn't want to go too thin, but I would venture a _wild_ guess that thin and flat would go over better than anything else.


----------



## JPMDan

I think a nice Jackson profile, it's a bit thicker than ibanez.


----------



## nyck

JPMDan said:


> Now what neck profile are we shooting for here?


Definetly thin and flat. Kinda like an Ibanez Wizard II except for an 8 string.


----------



## JPMDan

Thats thin, wouldnt we want the neck to be a little thicker for stability?


----------



## Nik

I've played some 6-string basses that had very comfortable necks, a tad thicker than a Wizard, but not by much.

Hell, I'd say make this as much as a 6-string bass as possible in terms of design and build, simply with an 8-string neck, bridge, headstock and tuners, and pick-up(s).

urklvt-is it just me, or does the body look waay too big for the neck in the pic provided?


----------



## W4D

AVAILABLE COLORS


----------



## W4D

David said:


> I dunno about the horns, they seem really wide.
> 
> The 1 pickup, 1 volume knob is really sketchy to me. If I'm going to buy an 8, well I want it to be an 8! haha. I use my pickups, switch, volume, and tone knobs all the time. In 5 minutes of playing, I usually use all 5 positions on my switch, and either the tone knob or the volume knob. I personally don't have much interest for an 8 that is pretty much bare-bones.



Horns actuall are fine. 

I am sure when making the ACTUAL body I will have to tweek the body a TAD bit. Keep in mind this is a SKETCH.

Remember the idea here was to make a bare bones 8 string that was available at a price for everyone. THAT IS THE CONCEPT. 

If you personally do not want a bare bones 8 string then do not buy it. 

I have gotten plenty of emails asking for this to happen and become a real guitar. So I will make it. One by one if need be but it will be available.


----------



## Shannon

The white one has a matching headstock, while the others don't. Any chance of making them all with matching headstocks?


----------



## W4D

Shannon said:


> The white one has a matching headstock, while the others don't. Any chance of making them all with matching headstocks?



Possible it is just the logo pops better on black and white.

These will be made per each order so if you want matching head stock it will be done.


----------



## Shannon

Very cool. I think a white logo would still pop nicely on those vibrant colors. Is the green going to be a neon color?


----------



## bostjan

I think it looks like a pretty fair compromise between everyone's suggested spec's.


----------



## JPMDan

Nice Job Waylon!


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

if these are made to order, any chance of tweaking the specs on an order, and getting charged a bit more? Such as neck pickup, etc? I would want a neck pickup, but like everyone says, can't afford to be too picky.


----------



## nyck

I think the body should be a tad bit narrower on the butt end of it. Looks very difference otherwise.


----------



## W4D

Shannon said:


> Very cool. I think a white logo would still pop nicely on those vibrant colors. Is the green going to be a neon color?



Could be?




bostjan said:


> I think it looks like a pretty fair compromise between everyone's suggested spec's.



That is what I was trying to do.



JPMDan said:


> Nice Job Waylon!



Thanks. 

Like I said before some things will more than likely change a bit while making this guitar. When completed I am sure you will like it. At least the ones that want one. I know who you are, since you have already been talking to me about it.



JJ Rodriguez said:


> if these are made to order, any chance of tweaking the specs on an order, and getting charged a bit more? Such as neck pickup, etc? I would want a neck pickup, but like everyone says, can't afford to be too picky.



Yes, You can do that.



nyck said:


> I think the body should be a tad bit narrower on the butt end of it. Looks very difference otherwise.



As I said above. If while making it things do not seem right. I will change a bit to make sure it is all and all a great guitar. (Design, Electronics, Hardware, and more)


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

W00t. What's the neck join on the Halo's like? Would it be a big plate, or a contoured AANJ kinda deal?


----------



## JPMDan

Waylon, have you worked on Neck dimensions yet?


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> W00t. What's the neck join on the Halo's like? Would it be a big plate, or a contoured AANJ kinda deal?



Depending on the guitar. We have both.



JPMDan said:


> Waylon, have you worked on Neck dimensions yet?



Not yet that is next. I wanted the sketch work completed first.


----------



## jtm45

EMG do a dual-concentric pot which is sold as a dual volume pot but i think the Vol+Tone pots are both 25k so i suppose the dual-concentric could be used as a Vol/Tone pot (could it?).

They're quite commonly available too (guitarparts depot stocks them).

That green Halo8 looks pretty cool


----------



## JPMDan

What's next on the Sketch work?


----------



## W4D

jtm45 said:


> EMG do a dual-concentric pot which is sold as a dual volume pot but i think the Vol+Tone pots are both 25k so i suppose the dual-concentric could be used as a Vol/Tone pot (could it?).
> 
> They're quite commonly available too (guitarparts depot stocks them).
> 
> That green Halo8 looks pretty cool



I will check out all options and do what works the best thanks for the information I will check it out.

And yeah it does look cool in green huh.


----------



## bostjan

Why exactly do you guys want concentric knobs? I don't see the advantage on a solidbody.

I was thinking the green looked coolest, too, but green is the only color i can see.


----------



## W4D

JPMDan said:


> What's next on the Sketch work?



That is about it.


----------



## jtm45

bostjan said:


> Why exactly do you guys want concentric knobs? I don't see the advantage on a solidbody.



I 'think' the guys who are interested in these guitars want a single knob (or a dual action single)for minimal clutter.


----------



## bostjan

As an owner of guitars with concentric knobs, I'll tell you that they are kind of a pain in the ass for some people. I vote against them, but they wouldn't be a big deal to change.


----------



## nyck

bostjan said:


> As an owner of guitars with concentric knobs, I'll tell you that they are kind of a pain in the ass for some people. I vote against them, but they wouldn't be a big deal to change.


They aren't exactly easy to use on the fly either.


----------



## bostjan

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they did away with them. At least they made them a lot less necessary.


----------



## Adam

David said:


> I dunno about the horns, they seem really wide. The 1 pickup, 1 volume knob is really sketchy to me. If I'm going to buy an 8, well I want it to be an 8! haha. I use my pickups, switch, volume, and tone knobs all the time. In 5 minutes of playing, I usually use all 5 positions on my switch, and either the tone knob or the volume knob. I personally don't have much interest for an 8 that is pretty much bare-bones.
> 
> 
> , just becuase I feel a lot of people might be thinking the same.



I'm with David on this one, if these 8's are gonna be built they'll have to have a neck pickup and pickup selector, but other than that I'm liking all the other options and the guitar itself , since I'd use this guitar with a high A a 25.5" scale would be better, but I can adjust with the 27". And how much would you charge for adding a neck pickup and a pickup selector?


----------



## bostjan

Well, unless you use Garry's strings, I don't think you'll be able to get up to high A at 25.5", neither. With Garry's strings, you should be able to tune up to A440 even at 27".


----------



## JPMDan

jtm45 said:


> EMG do a dual-concentric pot which is sold as a dual volume pot but i think the Vol+Tone pots are both 25k so i suppose the dual-concentric could be used as a Vol/Tone pot (could it?).
> 
> They're quite commonly available too (guitarparts depot stocks them).
> 
> That green Halo8 looks pretty cool



since these guitars are built per customer spec then let the customer choose what he wants.

Personally I only use a Volume knob, last time I had a single pickup guitar I regretted not taking out the tone.


----------



## nyck

Yngwie said:


> I'm with David on this one, if these 8's are gonna be built they'll have to have a neck pickup and pickup selector, but other than that I'm liking all the other options and the guitar itself , since I'd use this guitar with a high A a 25.5" scale would be better, but I can adjust with the 27". And how much would you charge for adding a neck pickup and a pickup selector?


Another pickup would be like $100. Better ask Waylon though.


----------



## bostjan

Well, plus the routing and wiring&#8230;


----------



## JPMDan

nyck said:


> Another pickup would be like $100. Better ask Waylon though.




I think he was asking Waylon.....


----------



## nyck

JPMDan said:


> I think he was asking Waylon.....



I'm telling him how much a pickup would cost.


----------



## noodles

Dude, what is with the bickering over stupid shit that doesn't matter? The whole point is to get an eight string at a completely acceptable price. A grand for an eight? I don't care if it only comes in neon pink with purple stars, I'm fucking buying one. I can always paint that shit later.

It has been my experience that electronics cavities are generally much bigger than a one pickup/one volume guitar would require, leaving ample room to modify to your hearts content. I stuck a tone knob on my Stars SL-7 with a drill and a soldering iron. The knob even hides the minimal paint chipping.

Waylon, it looks great. Build that fucker, and leave a big enough cavity for everyone to stick in whatever electronics they feel like adding. I even know who to take mine to if I need a neck pickup, and all it costs me is some beers and a trip to the titty bar afterwards.

I want the white one.


----------



## JPMDan

nyck said:


> I'm telling him how much a pickup would cost.



 Let the man answer douche, you don't own Halo and you don't know what prices he gets on these pickups. Dont go around telling something you dont know 100% about.


----------



## nyck

JPMDan said:


> Let the man answer douche, you don't own Halo and you don't know what prices he gets on these pickups. Dont go around telling something you dont know 100% about.


Waylon obviously isn't online so I was just giving the dude a ballpark estimate on how much to expect if he wanted to add a pickup. I'm pretty sure he's not getting a discount from EMG just because he's with Halo unless he's buying in bulk, so the price won't be much different from what I said earlier. No need to go ape shit on me, man.


----------



## JPMDan

chillax man I'm not going ape shit on you, next time mention it's a ballpark figure. it seemed like you knew thats the exact price man. remember that this is for a bunch of guitars so he can order the EMG pickups in bulk.

Note, I called you a douche because of the  so we're even.


----------



## Donnie

Hey, let's just chill on the name calling here. If anybody is going to be calling anyone a douche, it'll be me... ya douche.


----------



## Shannon

noodles said:


> Dude, what is with the bickering over stupid shit that doesn't matter? The whole point is to get an eight string at a completely acceptable price. A grand for an eight? I don't care if it only comes in neon pink with purple stars, I'm fucking buying one. I can always paint that shit later.
> 
> It has been my experience that electronics cavities are generally much bigger than a one pickup/one volume guitar would require, leaving ample room to modify to your hearts content. I stuck a tone knob on my Stars SL-7 with a drill and a soldering iron. The knob even hides the minimal paint chipping.
> 
> Waylon, it looks great. Build that fucker, and leave a big enough cavity for everyone to stick in whatever electronics they feel like adding. I even know who to take mine to if I need a neck pickup, and all it costs me is some beers and a trip to the titty bar afterwards.
> 
> I want the white one.



Thank you!  
Well said on all accounts.


----------



## kruneh

Let me first say that I think you´ve come up with specs that seems realistic and reasonable for an 8 string that´s meant to be affordable.
So my question is more generally.
We all know that rosewood is prefered used in budget guitars because of cost. How much more would actually an ebony board be? 
I´m not trying to change the specs here (like I could do that..), I´m just wondering, and this thread seems right for the question, believe it or not.

Anyway, great initiativ.
And yeah, I fully agree with noodles and Shannon


----------



## darren

And EMGs are dead-easy to add a tone control to, because everything is hooked up with their quick connectors.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

noodles said:


> Waylon, it looks great. Build that fucker, and leave a big enough cavity for everyone to stick in whatever electronics they feel like adding. I even know who to take mine to if I need a neck pickup, and all it costs me is some beers and a trip to the titty bar afterwards.




Well, some of us live in places where I wouldn't trust anyone to route up my axe for a neck pickup, except maybe me, but I would rather someone professional carve up a finished guitar that I'm spending a grand on. I was just inquiring about option specific to each personal order, Waylon already said that he's building to order so there is some flexibility on options.


----------



## XEN

I'm sure Waylon will be flexible. Personally I'm fine with the single volume knob, no tone knob setup. I have an active eq on my single EMG 81 Steinberger, but it almost always stays maxed. I've grown used to setting my amps and effects to work with it that way. I don't like using the knobs at all really. My volume knob only gets used as an off switch. 

btw I've finished my scale drawing. Now it just needs to be printed on a plotter. I'll take care of that tomorrow. The body did get narrowed slightly, and ended up almost exactly 13" wide, just 1/2" wider than my S7420, and 40" from the tip of the headstock to the butt of the body. It looks quite tight; hardly any changes from the pictures done up by Waylon, just a little tweaking to make sure everything is in the right place for the full-scale version.


----------



## W4D

noodles said:


> Dude, what is with the bickering over stupid shit that doesn't matter? The whole point is to get an eight string at a completely acceptable price. A grand for an eight? I don't care if it only comes in neon pink with purple stars, I'm fucking buying one. I can always paint that shit later.
> 
> It has been my experience that electronics cavities are generally much bigger than a one pickup/one volume guitar would require, leaving ample room to modify to your hearts content. I stuck a tone knob on my Stars SL-7 with a drill and a soldering iron. The knob even hides the minimal paint chipping.
> 
> Waylon, it looks great. Build that fucker, and leave a big enough cavity for everyone to stick in whatever electronics they feel like adding. I even know who to take mine to if I need a neck pickup, and all it costs me is some beers and a trip to the titty bar afterwards.
> 
> I want the white one.



If I decide to go with only one pick up and one knob in the final version, I will leave a standard size cavity in it so you can add all the knobs, buttons, switches that your heart desires.

Ok got you down for a white one.:hband:



Shannon said:


> Thank you!
> Well said on all accounts.



Thanks again! 



kruneh said:


> Let me first say that I think you´ve come up with specs that seems realistic and reasonable for an 8 string that´s meant to be affordable.
> So my question is more generally.
> We all know that rosewood is prefered used in budget guitars because of cost. How much more would actually an ebony board be?
> I´m not trying to change the specs here (like I could do that..), I´m just wondering, and this thread seems right for the question, believe it or not.
> 
> Anyway, great initiativ.
> And yeah, I fully agree with noodles and Shannon



I will call my source on monday to get a current quote for an EBONY fingerboard.



darren said:


> And EMGs are dead-easy to add a tone control to, because everything is hooked up with their quick connectors.



Very true not hard at all. Heck if it is so demanded I will put in 2 knobs. 1 for Volume and 1 for Tone. 

It costs no more for two knobs.

I was just going with one knob for my personal thoughts. I like as little kobs as possible. Matter a fact my 1 of a kind DEAN V only has NO knobs. And my Old Dean Z from way back when has its knobs hidden in the cavity so I set it once and never touched them again. And I re did the body to look as if No nobs were ever installed. My guitars that do have knobs I take the knobs off and justthe pots showing so i do not have the urge to fuck with them. I much rather set my tone and leave it.



JJ Rodriguez said:


> Well, some of us live in places where I wouldn't trust anyone to route up my axe for a neck pickup, except maybe me, but I would rather someone professional carve up a finished guitar that I'm spending a grand on. I was just inquiring about option specific to each personal order, Waylon already said that he's building to order so there is some flexibility on options.



Yes. As I stated before, if I use only one pick up on the production model you can opt for a small fee to have two.



urklvt said:


> I've finished my scale drawing. Now it just needs to be printed on a plotter. I'll take care of that tomorrow. The body did get narrowed slightly, and ended up almost exactly 13" wide, just 1/2" wider than my S7420, and 40" from the tip of the headstock to the butt of the body. It looks quite tight; hardly any changes from the pictures done up by Waylon, just a little tweaking to make sure everything is in the right place for the full-scale version.



AWSOME! Now lets get this thing started. So you musicians can have the right tool for the JOB.


----------



## Adam

W4D said:


> Yes. As I stated before, if I use only one pick up on the production model you can opt for a small fee to have two.


Awesome


----------



## XEN

Ebony would be quite cool. I hope you can get some and still keep the price down.


----------



## David

W4D said:


> Yes. As I stated before, if I use only one pick up on the production model you can opt for a small fee to have two.


oooh, I didn't hear that before... well now I'm interested! A 2nd knob isn't a big deal, I was just worried about the routing for a neck pup.



[action=David]'s excited.[/action]


----------



## Nik

This may be a stupid question, but are the bass EMGs you guys plan on using the exact same model EMGs that Rusty has in his Conklin and Ibanez 8-strings?


----------



## Adam

Nik said:


> This may be a stupid question, but are the bass EMGs you guys plan on using the exact same model EMGs that Rusty has in his Conklin and Ibanez 8-strings?


Rusty uses custom shop seymour duncans in his conklin, and these EMG's are supposed to be guitars pickups in bass housings.


----------



## JPMDan

hmmm looks more like EMG's to me.


----------



## Adam

http://www.conklinguitars.com/cherishedoctober.html unless he wasnt happy with them and changed them out.


----------



## JPMDan

There could be a chance they made him 2 1 with EMGs and 1 with Duncans. I know that LGM can get Duncan Screamin Demons in 8 string pickups but I didnt know duncans would be in a Bass housing as well.


----------



## Metal Ken

regarding the tone knob thing:

I think that they should leave it off for now. 
Why? Cause half the people here dont want it.. and its easier to add a tone knob, and drill the hole for it, and add it. If you dont like it and its there and want to take it off, you either fill the hole of have a guady looking dime sized hole on the front of your guitar.


----------



## Metal Ken

JPMDan said:


> There could be a chance they made him 2 1 with EMGs and 1 with Duncans. I know that LGM can get Duncan Screamin Demons in 8 string pickups but I didnt know duncans would be in a Bass housing as well.




THey mdae him ONE 8 string and ONE 9 stirng.


----------



## Nik

Yngwie said:


> http://www.conklinguitars.com/cherishedoctober.html unless he wasnt happy with them and changed them out.



Interesting...

I'm just curious how the Octavia would sound. I guess I'll just have to wait for you guys to post clips


----------



## nyck

Yeah I've done lots of research, and many people said they talked to EMG and they said that the bass pickups pretty much have the same tonality as the guitar pickups. The DC series is probably just a big EMG 85. A few people have used them before on 8 string guitars, and they said they sound great.


----------



## JPMDan

well whoever gets the prototype should post a clip


----------



## David

Metal Ken said:


> THey mdae him ONE 8 string and ONE 9 stirng.


liar, they made him TWO 8 strings and ONE 9 string.
8 string





8 string





9 string





I am such a smart ass.

EDIT: I'm just realizing this... is the one in the first picture the same as the one in the 2nd?! It looks a LOT different.


----------



## JPMDan

I love Conklins! That 9 looks uber insane too.


----------



## Adam

It's too bad he sold it so quickly though....


----------



## XEN

At least someone on ss.org got the 9.


----------



## Adam

who?


----------



## David

urklvt said:


> At least someone on ss.org got the 9.


yeah, Chris9, he has a few 8's and 9's doesn't he?


----------



## XEN

I think his handle here is chris9.
http://www.myspace.com/7stringguitar

Cool guy from the UK.


----------



## JPMDan

NOICE, how did he get Rusty's 9??


----------



## David

JPMDan said:


> NOICE, how did he get Rusty's 9??


rusty had it put up on ebay for like $5k


----------



## JPMDan

damn thats cheaper than what I was quoted for a 7 string custom conklin


----------



## Metal Ken

I think he got artist pricing on it, so it was cheaper for him


----------



## JPMDan

yea thats true....

[action=JPMDan]wants an endorsement deal with Conklin so he can be as cool as Rusty[/action]


----------



## XEN

Yeah, Rusty made a clean profit on that one. And as far as I remember, he posted it for about $7k so he made out quite well.

Now we just need to get some artist interest generated for the Halo 8.


----------



## JPMDan

For the price we're aiming at with the Halo 8 people would have to be nutts to not want to buy one.


----------



## David

If I record a bunch of stuff this summer... I'd be glad to become the first sponsored 8 artist.



[action=David]keeps dreaming.[/action]


----------



## NegaTiveXero

Fuck, I really want one of those guitars bad now.

I really don't care what config. it has or how many pickups, if it has one a pickup, can be plugged in and fucking play, I want it.

Sign me up for a fricking Red one.


----------



## Nik

David said:


> 9 string



That guitar would be so insanely sexy with a matte finish, 8-strings, no fret markers, and one more knob...


----------



## JPMDan

I wonder if we go with a 28" scale and set the bridge lower by about .5-1" and still get the 28.5-29" scale with the bridge lowered down. Any opinions?


----------



## bostjan

Huh?! 

To change the scale length, you'd have to move the frets around, man.


----------



## JPMDan

so lowering the bridge some wont affect it all then? oh well just a thought I had.


----------



## nyck

Anyone know what the difference between these are?
http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=177
http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=180

the .125 and .175


----------



## Nik

One more question into the mix (might've been answered):

will this baby have jumbo frets?


----------



## JPMDan

nyck said:


> Anyone know what the difference between these are?
> http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=177
> http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=180
> 
> the .125 and .175



possibly size of the bridge or string spacing?


----------



## David

JPMDan said:


> so lowering the bridge some wont affect it all then? oh well just a thought I had.


that changes the action. Low action=fast...


----------



## JPMDan

David said:


> that changes the action. Low action=fast...



no not that kind of lowering dude, I meant the placement of the bridge like toward the bottom of the guitar around an inch. I've been playing guitar for 8 years and know how to lower the action and intonate a guitar.


----------



## bostjan

You can't move the bridge back without messing up the intonation.

Even the bridge height can mess a little with the intonation.

Moving the bridge back and redistributing the frets would give you poorer access to the upper frets without a deeper cutaway, so it'd be a lot of redesigning.


----------



## JPMDan

ah I see if the bridge is moved the neck has be moved too.


----------



## David

JPMDan said:


> no not that kind of lowering dude, I meant the placement of the bridge like toward the bottom of the guitar around an inch. I've been playing guitar for 8 years and know how to lower the action and intonate a guitar.


then how come you don't get how strings and frets work?


----------



## JPMDan

How come you mixed up what I said with intonation? I was thinking if you can make a neck longer and keep the bridge in the same spot why not be able to bring the bridge down some and still get a longer scale.




Edit: W4D, what's the latest news on this badboy?


----------



## darren

nyck said:


> Anyone know what the difference between these are?
> http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=177
> http://www.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=180
> 
> the .125 and .175


Thickness of the base plate, depending on how much neck angle you want (or already have) designed into your guitar.

Thicker base plate = greater neck angle (relative to the body).



JPMDan said:


> How come you mixed up what I said with intonation? I was thinking if you can make a neck longer and keep the bridge in the same spot why not be able to bring the bridge down some and still get a longer scale.


Most people don't refer to the bridge end of the guitar as the "bottom" or "lower". If you say "move the bridge lower", to most people that would suggest sinking it deeper into the body. "Moving the bridge back" would suggest placement closer to the end pin.

Technically, "scale length" is 2x the distance from the nut to the 12th fret. If you move the bridge relative to the position of the 12th fret, you have to move the nut in the opposite direction by the same amount and reposition all of your frets to get an even-tempered scale. You can't just move one element (e.g. the bridge) to change the scale length. The bridge, nut and frets are all interdependent.


----------



## W4D

JPMDan said:


> W4D, what's the latest news on this badboy?



Well I am heading to Austin for a week. I have meetings and the NAMM convention so I will not be working on it till I get back from NAMM. 

Take Care all and have a good one. 

If any of you crazy folks are in Austin come on in to NAMM ad say hello. Booth # 293


----------



## JPMDan

PLEASE take pics of any 7 strings and 8 strings available, Especially the upcoming Munky Sig. guitar.


----------



## David

darren said:


> Most people don't refer to the bridge end of the guitar as the "bottom" or "lower". If you say "move the bridge lower", to most people that would suggest sinking it deeper into the body. "Moving the bridge back" would suggest placement closer to the end pin.
> 
> Technically, "scale length" is 2x the distance from the nut to the 12th fret. If you move the bridge relative to the position of the 12th fret, you have to move the nut in the opposite direction by the same amount and reposition all of your frets to get an even-tempered scale. You can't just move one element (e.g. the bridge) to change the scale length. The bridge, nut and frets are all interdependent.


 

although, there's nothing to agree about, that's simply fact.


----------



## W4D

JPMDan said:


> PLEASE take pics of any 7 strings and 8 strings available, Especially the upcoming Munky Sig. guitar.



Well do not know how much time I will have to walk around and take pics. I have a booth to run and a crap load of scheduled meetings. However I will do some walking around.


----------



## XEN

Enjoy the show man! I'm still trying to get the support people at work to connect our plotter so I can print the full scale design. PM me an address to ship it to. Laterz!


----------



## nyck

JPMDan said:


> PLEASE take pics of any 7 strings and 8 strings available, Especially the upcoming Munky Sig. guitar.


I'll bet you we'll see an update on Ibanezrules.com . Rich always gets pics from the Ibanez booth at NAMM.


----------



## JPMDan

Thats true he does get some sweet pics.


----------



## nyck

I wonder who got this beast:
http://www.ibanezrules.com/namm/images/2006/P100011.JPG


----------



## JPMDan

LOL gee I wonder who.


----------



## darren

I don't think Rich typically goes to the Summer NAMM show, because not a lot of product launches happen there. The NAMM Summer Session has traditionally been more product geared towards industry/trade products and services rather than consumer products.


----------



## Nik

JPMDan said:


> LOL gee I wonder who.



Who?

darren - I didn't know that; I was hoping to see something new in the way of Ibanez guitars.


----------



## nyck

darren said:


> I don't think Rich typically goes to the Summer NAMM show, because not a lot of product launches happen there. The NAMM Summer Session has traditionally been more product geared towards industry/trade products and services rather than consumer products.


Dude, you're killing me!


----------



## Adam

Did W4D say if he was willing to ship outside the U.S or not? 
I just don't want to go through the 38 pages.


----------



## JPMDan

He hasnt mentioned anything about shipping yet but he is selling some 7 string V's for 299.99 and said he ships outside of the US


----------



## W4D

Yngwie said:


> Did W4D say if he was willing to ship outside the U.S or not?
> I just don't want to go through the 38 pages.



Yes I ship across the globe


----------



## Adam

Awesome I only live in Canada but I was still wondering, also is the list price confirmed and finalized?


----------



## JPMDan

My guess is we wont know til the prototype is built


----------



## darren

Right now the list and street prices are there as a "target". As JPMDan said, it's going to be difficult for Waylon to confirm until the prototype is actually built and parts have been lined up with suppliers.


----------



## W4D

Yngwie said:


> Awesome I only live in Canada but I was still wondering, also is the list price confirmed and finalized?



Yes this is now confirmed.

List Price $1250
Street Price $1000


----------



## JPMDan

damn well thats sweet!


----------



## bostjan

Wow! That's about what you would pay for a halfway decent seven these days. Killer price!


----------



## XEN

I can't wait to get my hands on one!


----------



## JPMDan

I cant wait to see how the prototype comes out.


----------



## W4D

So something new has come up since NAMM.

I had a long meeting with Gary Kahler. And we have come to a resolve on the issue of a 6, 7, & 8 string Trem for HALO to use. He will have teh prototpes of the 7 and 8 on my desk in 2 months. This bridge will be both fixed & Trem. We agreed on a price and qty that will make this possible and keep teh guitar at the same price.

Will show you photos of prototype when it arrives

*Features of the Kahler bridge system*

*A) Saddle set adjustment for precosion set ups*
1. Height - up and down saddle adjustment for precise radius matching and action
2. Spacing - side to side saddle adjustment for precise fretboard alignment and variable string spacing
3. Intonation - forward and back saddle adjustment necessary for ease of set up

*B) Fine tuning for precise intuneness and harmonics*
1. Ratios of 78-1 at the fine tuner knob verses 16(+/-)-1 at the machine head.

*C) Cam and String tension offsets for smooth feel*
1. The offset Cam in engineered so the teh cam tension, when pushing down will always be the same tension and feel; as the cam leverages the spring tension while offsetting the lossening string tensions.
2. The top spring tension adjuster allows for different string sets to be balanced against the spring tension
3. Top arm clutch adjuster allows just teh right swing away touch on the arm

*D) Lock and Load*
1. Allows the cam to be locked into place for easier string up and set up
2. Allows this bridge to be a fixed bridge or trem bridge


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

There's going to be a 7 string Kahler? Noice.


----------



## noodles

W4D said:


> I had a long meeting with Gary Kahler. And we have come to a resolve on the issue of a 6, 7, & 8 string Trem for HALO to use. He will have teh prototpes of the 7 and 8 on my desk in 2 months. This bridge will be both fixed & Trem. We agreed on a price and qty that will make this possible and keep teh guitar at the same price.


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> There's going to be a 7 string Kahler? Noice.



yeah and we will be teh first to have it..

like I said Gary will have it to me in 2 months tops


----------



## Durero

That's Fantastic news!


----------



## XEN

Freakin' sweet!


----------



## thepunisher

definatly saving money right now


----------



## W4D

All of our guitars standard lines will have these 4 string bass/ 6 string guitar but the sevens and eights will be available not soon after. But teh 8 is still scheduled for release in january


----------



## theunforgiven246

oh my god... i... must... resist... AHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! 8 STRING TREMS!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ...i need new pants... eww...


----------



## LordHar

Now to get some aftermarket piezo replacement saddles and I'm in heaven 
Can't wait to see the Halo 8 prototype!


----------



## darren

If it's true to Gary Kahler's other bridge designs, it will use roller saddles, and i don't think piezo retrofits are an option at this point.


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> If it's true to Gary Kahler's other bridge designs, it will use roller saddles, and i don't think piezo retrofits are an option at this point.



Yes it will be true to the other Kahler trem units with roller saddles.


----------



## bostjan

Wow! How long have we been asking for seven string Kahlers? And now an eight string Kahler is in the works?! I sure hope, for the sake of the ERG community, that this all goes through as planned.


----------



## W4D

bostjan said:


> Wow! How long have we been asking for seven string Kahlers? And now an eight string Kahler is in the works?! I sure hope, for the sake of the ERG community, that this all goes through as planned.



Well don't know if you read it or not. 

BUT....

Gary has agreed to make for Halo 

For Guitar(6 string Kahlers, 7 String Kahler, 8 String Kahler)

For Bass(4 string Kahlers, 5 String Kahlers, 6 String Kahlers)


----------



## bostjan

O RLY? I missed the six string bass Kahler. Hmm&#8230;

Some of us have emailed Kahler before about a seven string trem.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Does this mean that the 7 string Kahler will only be available through Halo? So there would be no chance of me retrofitting a Kahler on one of my existing 7's, unless I buy a Halo and rip it off?


----------



## slake moth

Will the fixed Hipshot still be an option?


----------



## noodles

bostjan said:


> Some of us have emailed Kahler before about a seven string trem.



No shit. Some of us have talked to their mean-spirted and foul-tempered plant manager, and got very tearse replies and barely masked insults.


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Does this mean that the 7 string Kahler will only be available through Halo? So there would be no chance of me retrofitting a Kahler on one of my existing 7's, unless I buy a Halo and rip it off?




I can get you one after they arrive



slake moth said:


> Will the fixed Hipshot still be an option?



if you custom order it I can do it. As of right now the Kahler will be the standard. Must be since I placed teh order and signed a deal.



noodles said:


> No shit. Some of us have talked to their mean-spirted and foul-tempered plant manager, and got very tearse replies and barely masked insults.




Well I know me and Gary have been talking ever since his company got back in business with him running the race. Been a long discussion. He agreed and is sending me units right now and teh 7 and 8 will be here in september


----------



## noodles

W4D said:


> I can get you one after they arrive.



Any idea on cost yet? I'm seriously going to want at least one unit. I'm assuming these are only going to be available as 2300 flatmount with one type of cam material, or is he going to offer the full range of options (aluminum, brass, steel cams)?

Waylon, thank you so much for making this happen.


----------



## Matt Crooks

noodles said:


> Any idea on cost yet? I'm seriously going to want at least one unit. I'm assuming these are only going to be available as 2300 flatmount with one type of cam material, or is he going to offer the full range of options (aluminum, brass, steel cams)?
> 
> Waylon, thank you so much for making this happen.



+1. I'll want at least two, maybe three.


----------



## bostjan

Hmm what about a trem for fanned fret guitars? (Bostjan pushes his luck)


----------



## Durero

Matt Crooks said:


> +1. I'll want at least two, maybe three.


+1 Me too!



bostjan said:


> Hmm what about a trem for fanned fret guitars? (Bostjan pushes his luck)


I'm sure the Kahler design would be one of the easiest to adapt to an angled bridge for fanned-frets. I think it would require one custom part: a set of individual mounts for the bridge rollers - a relatively easy part to make I'd guess (and fully intend to try if I can get my hands on one!)


----------



## bostjan

Well, that and the base housing would have to be redone. I think that's the biggie. If they made a trem for fanned frets, I would need to somehow obtain one. I'm the world's biggest fan of compound scale lengths.


----------



## Metal Ken

bostjan said:


> If they made a trem for fanned frets, I would need to somehow obtain one. I'm the world's biggest fan of compound scale lengths.



http://www.conklinguitars.com/bizarregallery/biz8images/ultimat8descript.html


----------



## Durero

bostjan said:


> Well, that and the base housing would have to be redone. I think that's the biggie. If they made a trem for fanned frets, I would need to somehow obtain one. I'm the world's biggest fan of compound scale lengths.


No I don't think the housing would have to be touched. I'm imagining taking the roller saddles out of the base housing - where they are mounted on a very simple rod that runs across the front of the housing - and moving them in front of the housing, with each roller mounted on its own rod.

http://www.kahlerparts.com/Part_Pages/5363.htm

just imagine 7 or 8 of these ^ mounted in front of the base housing.


----------



## bostjan

Ahh!

Metal Ken, that is a nice guitar, but it's half of a vintage style trem. The sustainer seems to only work on certain strings, too, but who cares, that's six more strings than would work without any sustainer at all.


----------



## Metal Ken

6 more strings than a sustainer would work on? 

I think its the closest we'll get to a multi-scale trem for a while lol.


----------



## bostjan

No, six more strings than a not-sustainer would work on. lol

I'm a little fuxxored, I need some sleep, but I just got back from a trip thursday and didn't get any sleep last night.

Yeah, but I'd rather have a hardtail than deal with a weird half and half hardtail/vintage trem. If there was a fully-floating multiscale trem system for eight stringers, I would shit my pants, get new pants, then start working on obtaining a guitar with said system.


----------



## Metal Ken

Hell, i can totally live with a hardtail if i were getting a fanned fret 7. Just me personally though.


----------



## dpm

This is a little O/T for this thread, but a fanned fret trem could be done, it's just a matter of money.


----------



## bostjan

Well, this is a thread that was started because we couldn't stay on topic in another thread. We should just call it a stream of consciousness rather than a thread.


----------



## Durero

dpm said:


> ... a fanned fret trem could be done, it's just a matter of money.


Ain't that the truth!


----------



## W4D

ok just got off the phone with KAHLER. The have already started building the unit. I will send photos as soon as i have teh product in my hand. As for teh Octavia I will plan on having a finished proto witha hip shot fixed in my hands by november. I will post the photo up as soon as it arrives.


----------



## Durero




----------



## Scott

I've always wanted a guitar with a kahler.

Kahler is a lefty friendly company


----------



## XEN

I second the woohoo! I can't wait to get my hands on one of those!


----------



## noodles

Scott said:


> I've always wanted a guitar with a kahler.
> 
> Kahler is a lefty friendly company









The smartest thing Kahler ever did was start milling bar holes on both sides of the cam, making the idea of lefty/righty bridges irrelevant.


----------



## 2powern

If the UK doesn't get reamed in shipping + taxes, then I'm VERY interested.


----------



## Matt Crooks

W4D said:


> ok just got off the phone with KAHLER. The have already started building the unit. I will send photos as soon as i have teh product in my hand.


----------



## W4D

Matt Crooks said:


>




ha ha ha love that one


----------



## theunforgiven246

mmmm... i can't wait!


----------



## Tombinator

Kahler.


----------



## W4D

The KAHLER's will be here in 4 - 6 weeks I will send photos of teh raw ones when they get here.


----------



## JPMDan

Sweet deal, whats the latest on the guitar?


----------



## W4D

So news and updates on the eight string from HALO from $1000.

First two will be done in about a month. One with a fixed bridge and one with a trem on it. I spoke with Gary to day and my Kahler 7 string and 8 string trems will be here in about 4 - 6 weeks.

Sorry I have not been on in a bit but have had some personal family issues come up right after NAMM.

Anywho I am back and will be keeping you all updated


----------



## nyck

Cool man.


----------



## Adam

W4D said:


> So news and updates on the eight string from HALO from $1000.
> 
> First two will be done in about a month. One with a fixed bridge and one with a trem on it.


So its def. gonna be $1000 for the fixed bridge, and probably a lot more for the kahler?


----------



## W4D

Yngwie said:


> So its def. gonna be $1000 for the fixed bridge, and probably a lot more for the kahler?



not alot more maybe like 1 - 2 hundred more i will know for sure in 4 - 6 weeks


----------



## W4D

Just a reminder! These guitars are available to order. I will start making them and ETA is around 90 - 120 days from the order date. It is quite possibel to get it to you sooner but that is a safe number.  

Right now I am only making hardtails with the fixed 8 bridge. Until I get the correct unit from Gary.


----------



## Scott

How many kahler's are you going to be receiving? 

Because i'd love to be a lefty with an 8 string, but i'd love even more to be a lefty with a kahler equipped 8 string. I assume these kahlers will be like all other kahlers and be universal for lefties and righties?


----------



## 2powern

What would a rough price for an 8 string, righty with khaler and neck pup for the UK, be? 
Thanks.


----------



## Adam

What would be a rough estimate on this?:


----------



## W4D

Yngwie said:


> What would be a rough estimate on this?:




$1250 plus shipping



Scott said:


> How many kahler's are you going to be receiving?
> 
> Because i'd love to be a lefty with an 8 string, but i'd love even more to be a lefty with a kahler equipped 8 string. I assume these kahlers will be like all other kahlers and be universal for lefties and righties?



Yes they will be. As for the amount of Kahlers I will be reciving will be I will let you know after I get the proto from Gary



2powern said:


> What would a rough price for an 8 string, righty with khaler and neck pup for the UK, be?
> Thanks.



Will let youknow after I get the proto from Gary and we work th ebugs out together


----------



## Adam

W4D said:


> $1250 plus shipping



So thats $1250 american with the neck pickup, and pickup selector, and extra for shipping


----------



## W4D

Yngwie said:


> So thats $1250 american with the neck pickup, and pickup selector, and extra for shipping




Yup that is it!


----------



## Scott

I don't wanna look through the 45 pages in this thread so i'll just ask..

How much of the guitar will be customiseable? bridge/pickups/fretboard?


----------



## chris9

I have just ordered a white one with 2 pickups and a fixed bridge just waiting for pay pal to clear should have by december!!!! i can,t wait i,ll probley get it before my lgm theres still no sigh of that he said end of aurgust oh well another deadline gone!!!!


----------



## darren

chris9 said:


> i,ll probley get it before my lgm theres still no sigh of that he said end of aurgust oh well another deadline gone!!!!


That REALLY sucks.


----------



## chris9

yeah tell me about it!!!!


----------



## kruneh

I´m pretty much sitting here and consider wheter I should order one now or wait for the prototype to be finished. It would be nice to be among the first ones to get it... Always sucks waiting.


----------



## JPMDan

kruneh said:


> I´m pretty much sitting here and consider wheter I should order one now or wait for the prototype to be finished. It would be nice to be among the first ones to get it... Always sucks waiting.


 
Personally I'd wait to see what the prototype looks like so I know what I'm getting into. Know what I'm saying?


----------



## kruneh

JPMDan said:


> Personally I'd wait to see what the prototype looks like so I know what I'm getting into. Know what I'm saying?



Yeah, that´s what I´m thinking too. It´s just that I´m eager to try an 8 string, guess you know the feeling


----------



## JPMDan

eh I'm not that eager to try an 8 I haven't mastered the 7 yet. It's just something I wouldn't pay for without knowing what I'm getting into.


----------



## W4D

kruneh said:


> I´m pretty much sitting here and consider wheter I should order one now or wait for the prototype to be finished. It would be nice to be among the first ones to get it... Always sucks waiting.




No worries. I just know some of you were looking to get them before or at NAMM so that is why I was posting this. Will post pictures of the first ones made as soon as I have teh guitars finished.


----------



## W4D

So i am ordering the strings for the 8 string guitar what guage would you all like on it. What is preferred


----------



## XEN

I think this will work: 10-13-17-26-36-46-56-68/70 (that's an Ernie Ball 2621 Regular Slinky 7 string set with a 68 or 70 added for the low F#) I think that for the 27" scale the strings do not need to be heavy at all to get a decent tone from the "standard" tuning, low F# to high E.

What about the rest of you guys? What do you think?


----------



## nyck

A .070 is way too light for F# at 27"s. When I had my 27" 7 string, I tested a .085 bass string and it had a nice tension to it. I would probably opt for a .080 though.


----------



## XEN

I do agree with you to an extent. I use a 0.074 at the 28 5/8" scale and it feels loose, but then again, when playing that low, I found myself mainly playing sinlge notes on the F# rather than trying to play chords and drown in mud.

We'll see how it goes. If they're too small I still have a few 0.074s laying around. For the rest though I think the other gauges are fine.


----------



## Shannon

My old 8 was 25.5" and a .74 gauge worked well for the F#. For a 27", a .70 should be fine.


----------



## XEN

Shannon said:


> My old 8 was 25.5" and a .74 gauge worked well for the F#. For a 27", a .70 should be fine.



Nice!


----------



## guitarjitsumaster

Note inches	

PL009	E	0.009	

PL011	B	0.011 

PL016	G	0.016 

NW024D	0.024 

NW032A	0.032 

NW044E	0.044 

NW059B	0.059 

Whatever F# string gauge that is the next step up in tension from 59.

I like the tension being somewhere between equal and standard. If I remember correctly this is a 27" so it will feel kinda like 10's. 

Make this guitar available around income tax time.


----------



## W4D

Strings are ordered it will be special set from GHS.

Just to keep you posted I spoke with Kahler today and they said they have completed the trems. They are sending them to me.


----------



## NDG

Awesome. Kahler made you a 7 string trem, right? Forgive me if this has been mentioned, but what model is that going to be on? As exciting as an 8 string is, I'm more excited about a 7 string kahler guitar.


----------



## Desecrated

Will this be avaible outside of america ? 
Like sweden ?


----------



## W4D

Mahathera said:


> Awesome. Kahler made you a 7 string trem, right? Forgive me if this has been mentioned, but what model is that going to be on? As exciting as an 8 string is, I'm more excited about a 7 string kahler guitar.




kahler made me an 8 and a 7 trem



Desecrated said:


> Will this be avaible outside of america ?
> Like sweden ?




the guitar will be available all over. I have sold one to UK already. International sales and shipping is no bother by me.


----------



## bostjan

W4D said:


> kahler made me an 8 and a 7 trem






I never thought I'd see the day! Honestly.


----------



## NDG

W4D said:


> kahler made me an 8 and a 7 trem



I thought that was the case. 

What are your plans for the Kahler 7? Is it going to be an option on a new design? current design? Hints? 

 You are the man for making that deal happen.


----------



## Tombinator

?!?


----------



## W4D

Mahathera said:


> I thought that was the case.
> 
> What are your plans for the Kahler 7? Is it going to be an option on a new design? current design? Hints?
> 
> You are the man for making that deal happen.




The Kahler seven.

Actually I plan on my mid next year at Austin Namm that all our guitars will be Kahler bridges. 

Me and Gary see eye to eye on alot of stuff, we will be making plans for namm to debut a certain signature 8 string guitar for a shred master that has been around for a long time. I will keep you posted. We can not announce who it is until November when his current contract is up with another company. We will be releasing his guitar in a 6, 7 , and 8.


----------



## Adam

W4D said:


> The Kahler seven.
> 
> Actually I plan on my mid next year at Austin Namm that all our guitars will be Kahler bridges.
> 
> Me and Gary see eye to eye on alot of stuff, we will be making plans for namm to debut a certain signature 8 string guitar for a shred master that has been around for a long time. I will keep you posted. We can not announce who it is until November when his current contract is up with another company. We will be releasing his guitar in a 6, 7 , and 8.


Is he member on this forum


----------



## W4D

Yngwie said:


> Is he member on this forum




I honestly do not know. He might be...I did not ask.


----------



## Metal Ken

W4D said:


> The Kahler seven.
> 
> Actually I plan on my mid next year at Austin Namm that all our guitars will be Kahler bridges.
> 
> Me and Gary see eye to eye on alot of stuff, we will be making plans for namm to debut a certain signature 8 string guitar for a shred master that has been around for a long time. I will keep you posted. We can not announce who it is until November when his current contract is up with another company. We will be releasing his guitar in a 6, 7 , and 8.



Shit, you're making me an 8 ? You guys rule ;D


----------



## W4D

Metal Ken said:


> Shit, you're making me an 8 ? You guys rule ;D




LOL  

I could if you wanted one. But I would have to charge ya....


----------



## XEN

Sweet mother of merde, that's cool man! Thanks for keeping us posted!


----------



## W4D

urklvt said:


> Sweet mother of merde, that's cool man! Thanks for keeping us posted!




anytime that is what I am here for keep you all posted.


----------



## NDG

That is awesome. I can't wait to see the goods.


----------



## W4D

Should have some photos for you all next week of teh body in work in progress.

Also I just got off the tele with Gary Kahler, the bridges are being polished then they have to be stamped and plated so I will get them he said oround the last week of october.


----------



## noodles

Are these 8-string birdges, or sevens, too?


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

He's getting 7's too.


----------



## W4D

both 7 and 8's


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Since it's the end of October, I'm going to post the obligatory "This thread is worthless without pics" picture. Without further ado:


----------



## skinhead

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Since it's the end of October, I'm going to post the obligatory "This thread is worthless without pics" picture. Without further ado:



+1

Yeas really, we want to see some pics.


----------



## BrianCarroll

+1


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Since it's the end of October, I'm going to post the obligatory "This thread is worthless without pics" picture. Without further ado:




LOL. I will have pics for you soon. Plus teh new 8 string pick ups and kahlers will be here this week gary is sending them today and tesla is sending teh pickups i had them make


----------



## abyssalservant

nyck said:


> Controls, what I would want is a single volume/single emg, but that's obviously not gonna happen.



It should happen, though . . . you aren't the only one, I'd go for the same setup. Who's with us?



W4D said:


> The Kahler seven.
> 
> Actually I plan on my mid next year at Austin Namm that all our guitars will be Kahler bridges.
> 
> Me and Gary see eye to eye on alot of stuff, we will be making plans for namm to debut a certain signature 8 string guitar for a shred master that has been around for a long time. I will keep you posted. We can not announce who it is until November when his current contract is up with another company. We will be releasing his guitar in a 6, 7 , and 8.



I've a wager on who said shredder is.
Of course, I might be cheating as he's my teacher . . . and I was the one who brought up Kahler 7's to him, which he in turn brought up to Kahler . . . and he did say he was talking to Halo . . . and he's wanted an 8 for a long time. He's still got a 29-fret 6, but he doesn't use it nearly as much as he'd hoped to, since the frets up there are bleeding small.
I'm dancing with demonic glee. You should see me.

Of course, watch, he's talking about someone else altogether.


----------



## Hawksmoor

W4D said:


> The Kahler seven.
> 
> Actually I plan on my mid next year at Austin Namm that all our guitars will be Kahler bridges.
> 
> Me and Gary see eye to eye on alot of stuff, we will be making plans for namm to debut a certain signature 8 string guitar for a shred master that has been around for a long time. I will keep you posted. We can not announce who it is until November when his current contract is up with another company. We will be releasing his guitar in a 6, 7 , and 8.



Darn fine, sir.
Can't wait to see a finished or partially finished product.
Will he model have the traditional Halo traits or will be an entirely new design?


----------



## W4D

abyssalservant said:


> It should happen, though . . . you aren't the only one, I'd go for the same setup. Who's with us?
> 
> it can be done when you order it just let me know hwat you want.
> 
> 
> 
> I've a wager on who said shredder is.
> Of course, I might be cheating as he's my teacher . . . and I was the one who brought up Kahler 7's to him, which he in turn brought up to Kahler . . . and he did say he was talking to Halo . . . and he's wanted an 8 for a long time. He's still got a 29-fret 6, but he doesn't use it nearly as much as he'd hoped to, since the frets up there are bleeding small.
> I'm dancing with demonic glee. You should see me.
> 
> Of course, watch, he's talking about someone else altogether.




LOL sounds liek you might be talking about possibly the same person.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

W4D said:


> LOL sounds liek you might be talking about possibly the same person.



Since I see you're still monitoring this thread, once again I must reiterate:


 

That is all.


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Since I see you're still monitoring this thread, once again I must reiterate:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is all.



Monday I will have pics. They get here monday.


The * string and 7 string trems will be available thru HALO MONDAY. We have limeted amount so let me know if anyone wants them. Cause I need to use these on our guitars we will be sell just a few speratly. So if you indeed want a 7 or 8 or both let me know.

PICS on monday.


----------



## Durero

W4D said:


> The * string and 7 string trems will be available thru HALO MONDAY. We have limeted amount so let me know if anyone wants them. Cause I need to use these on our guitars we will be sell just a few speratly. So if you indeed want a 7 or 8 or both let me know.


How much for each model?


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Will these continue to be available? Or is this a one time deal? I want to build a guitar in the future, but can't finance tools until someone buys my guitar, or receive them as gifts, save up, etc.


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Will these continue to be available? Or is this a one time deal? I want to build a guitar in the future, but can't finance tools until someone buys my guitar, or receive them as gifts, save up, etc.



I am sure we can make it happen for ya. 

I was just saying that this first batch most of them will be used for our guitars but we will be selling a few of teh first batch but youw ill be able to order them from us always


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

W4D said:


> Monday I will have pics. They get here monday.
> 
> 
> The * string and 7 string trems will be available thru HALO MONDAY. We have limeted amount so let me know if anyone wants them. Cause I need to use these on our guitars we will be sell just a few speratly. So if you indeed want a 7 or 8 or both let me know.
> 
> *PICS on monday*.




...How many times are you going to make me do this?


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> ...How many times are you going to make me do this?



LOL

No more here you go. Just got them in here are the pics!

7 string






8 string


----------



## XEN

Freakin' sweet Waylon! You rule! So does Kahler!


----------



## God Hand Apostle

HOLY SHIT!!!


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Not only do you make wicked looking guitars, you also take one hell of a promo pic  Oh yeah, how much are these bad boys?


----------



## W4D

Sent you a pm with pricing from us directly.

these are available through Halo Guitars not even on teh kahler site.

Get em while there hot.

if you are interested send me a pm


----------



## Tombinator

Brass they are.


----------



## noodles

It looks like they are the same, except for the string retainers. You can see the gaps between the saddles on the 7-string version.

Makes sense from a business standpoint. You do as little fabricating as possible.


----------



## Durero

I'm drooling...


----------



## W4D

Well let me know what is up. I know that there have been alot of people wanting to build 8 strings and if they would like teh option of a tem system well here is your chance.

And well we all know that everyone else is a 7 string freak so let me know when who is interested in these bad boys


----------



## darren

Wow... those look awesome!

I'm looking forward to seeing the guitars they're going on.


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> Wow... those look awesome!
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing the guitars they're going on.



yeah it will look great on our new guitars and well if you want them for your guitars let me know.


----------



## theunforgiven246

ok i have a question about the trems (i dont really have much experience with kahlers). 1. can you flutter with them and 2. can you drop tune them like drop the B to A without the other strings going out of tune?


----------



## D-EJ915

OOOOOOOHHHH!!!!!!


----------



## W4D

theunforgiven246 said:


> ok i have a question about the trems (i dont really have much experience with kahlers). 1. can you flutter with them and 2. can you drop tune them like drop the B to A without the other strings going out of tune?



yes you can drop them and you can flutter to a point


----------



## Scott

How many do you have in total, and how many are going to go on Halo guitars?


----------



## W4D

Scott said:


> How many do you have in total, and how many are going to go on Halo guitars?



I have a tota of 30
and 20 going on halos from teh first run

second run will be in next year.


----------



## abyssalservant

*drools* I waaaaant . . .


----------



## W4D

abyssalservant said:


> *drools* I waaaaant . . .



I will give all sevenstring.org-anites a killer deal on them


----------



## Tubbs Mcgee

I just looked through all 51 pages of the thread (real interesting) haha If I ever have the money I'm definitely considering one of these guitars.


----------



## NDG

bump.

Nice looking bridges  

When can we see one on a guitar?


----------



## W4D

Mahathera said:


> bump.
> 
> Nice looking bridges
> 
> When can we see one on a guitar?



very soon i am painting the guitars right now


----------



## darren

We're grown-ups (well, most of us)... show us the guitars NUDE!


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Oh god, nude guitars  Just the thought gets me all hot.


----------



## skinhead

Man i have to say that the bridge looks very solid and with an style.

Maybe if they are "shippable" to Argentina i will want one for my coming 8 string.

Congratulations, the pickups and the bridges looks awsome!


----------



## Shawn

W4D said:


> LOL
> 
> No more here you go. Just got them in here are the pics!
> 
> 7 string
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8 string



That is awesome. Nice job, Waylon. Interesting thread too, I like the design alot.


----------



## skinhead

Waylon i'm waiting to see the final product!

I want to play an 8 or a 9.


----------



## abyssalservant

Waiting to see the final product? Go to YouTube and search for Nevermore 

I agree.


----------



## NDG

I think that post belongs in the tacky joke thread.


----------



## abyssalservant

. . . I had to. I have no sense of humor, and I must be shot for that, but I had to.

http://www.haloguitars.com/namm.html
W007w007 David Shankle!
'Nuff said.


----------



## W4D

here is a photo of the body before prep for paint as you can see we have a few of them on here.    

will post more photos after the painting   

Oh and Gary and I just finished the mock ups of teh 8 string and seven string locking nuts.


----------



## XEN

Freakin' sweet Waylon! Nice to see them finally taking shape!


----------



## W4D

urklvt said:


> Freakin' sweet Waylon! Nice to see them finally taking shape!



thanks i like'm. I hope more people do as well. This will be a test to see how well a guitar moves when it is codesigned with the audience who wiould be playing with them.


----------



## Ishan

Looks nice but the 27" scale is putting me off. Any chance of seeing a longer scale version in the future like 30"? (or 28" 5/8)


----------



## W4D

Ishan said:


> Looks nice but the 27" scale is putting me off. Any chance of seeing a longer scale version in the future like 30"? (or 28" 5/8)



anything can be done in the custom shop.


----------



## XEN

28 5/8" is the shiznit! I love mine.


----------



## Tombinator

Fucking sweet!

Those cavities for the electronics look like they might need to be routed a bit more. Just in case if people want to swap the pickup for an active EMG, and fit in a 9 volt battery.


----------



## W4D

Tombinator said:


> Fucking sweet!
> 
> Those cavities for the electronics look like they might need to be routed a bit more. Just in case if people want to swap the pickup for an active EMG, and fit in a 9 volt battery.



They will be the one you see is for someone that only wants one pickup one knob


----------



## Ishan

W4D said:


> anything can be done in the custom shop.



The custom shop won't keep it in the same price range I guess


----------



## W4D

Ishan said:


> The custom shop won't keep it in the same price range I guess



Well if you want oen I will keep it as close as possible no more than 2000 I promise. I can do that. You can say I have some pull.


----------



## Ishan

Hehe, not bad I guess for such a beast. I'll wait to see what mass produced 8 strings will be like and see from there


----------



## nyck

That looks killer Waylon. Great work! Are they CNC made?


----------



## abyssalservant

*does a dance* I wanna see new Shankle guitars!!
*dancedancedance* He told me today he'd gotten his Kahler 7 for his ESP 7 and was going to have it installed . . . sweet shit.


----------



## Scott

It's backwards. Where's the lefty?


----------



## skinhead

Those bodies are hot, waylon, congrats!

I want ot see the final product!


----------



## W4D

Scott said:


> It's backwards. Where's the lefty?



i got a body for a lefty if you want it i wwill make it



skinhead said:


> Those bodies are hot, waylon, congrats!
> 
> I want ot see the final product!



thanks will show you when it is completed



nyck said:


> That looks killer Waylon. Great work! Are they CNC made?



no CNC just hand and duplicarver


----------



## NDG

Cool  

I wish I could go to NAMM and check out your stuff; it seems like Halo has a lot to unveil in January.


----------



## Scott

W4D said:


> i got a body for a lefty if you want it i wwill make it



I'm intrigued


----------



## W4D

Scott said:


> I'm intrigued



Well sir. let me know when you are more than intrigued. Woul dbe more than happy to make and sell this one to you.


----------



## Ishan

Is there any pics of the full guitar? I want to see it


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Anyone know of a way to get a locking nut for an 8? I imagine you would have to cut 2 6 string lock nuts apart, but how would you attach them to the guitar, since each half would have 1 hole, and therefor spin and generally not be very stable.


----------



## darren

Gary Kahler is probably machining a custom one to go with the 8-string trem.


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> Gary Kahler is probably machining a custom one to go with the 8-string trem.



you are correct darren we just finished teh plans today on teh 8 string locking nut.

I talked it over with gary , conklin and a few other people and we all came up with a happy spot for this part.


----------



## dpm

radius?


----------



## Durero

Dan - the Kahler lock nut design is intended to be placed just behind the nut - so it can theoretically be used with just about any radius.

(Unlike the Floyd design)


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

I've heard that the kahler lock sucks. Are they decent?


----------



## jim777

I have an old Kahler locking nut on my Model 6, and I personally like it better (but then I love zero frets too). You can put a compensated nut on without any hassle at all.


----------



## dpm

bah, they're still using that system? [rant mode] What's the point? The nut is still there as a friction point. Better off with locking heads and a GraphTech nut. [/rant mode]

anyways, good to see it's all systems go on this


----------



## Durero

I'm with Jim on this one - I've owed Kahler & Floyd systems and I think the Kahler lock-nut is slightly better just because you're not stuck with a pre-determined radius.

The friction of the nut is absolutely non-existent when the strings are locked.

Kahler also offers a locking unit that doesn't require a wrench - uses finger levers instead.
http://www.kahlerparts.com/images/5514.jpg
A 7 or 8 string version of that would be a great alternative to the Floyd-type nuts.


----------



## metalfiend666

I've seen those nuts for Floyds before, I think Yamaha might use one.


----------



## W4D

Durero said:


> Dan - the Kahler lock nut design is intended to be placed just behind the nut - so it can theoretically be used with just about any radius.
> 
> (Unlike the Floyd design)



This one is different from the typical Kahler design locking nut. This is actually more like teh floyd designs



JJ Rodriguez said:


> I've heard that the kahler lock sucks. Are they decent?



These nuts are kick ass i will take a photo. They are great.


----------



## darren

Personally, i like a GraphTech nut with locking tuners, but a locking nut will definitely be preferred by some, and a new unit that's been designed with players in mind (and built on over 20 years of locking trem experience) is going to be pretty awesome.


----------



## Scott

I hope the nut is universal for lefty and righty? Because if it's closer to the FR nut, and isn't universal for lefties and righties, there is a very slim chance of me getting one.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

It's to discourage people from playing lefty, which is quite obviously wrong.


----------



## theunforgiven246

W4D said:


> These nuts are kick ass i will take a photo. They are great.



 i'm i the only one who finds this funny? sorry man, but thats funny! now back on topic, i cant wait untill they're done so we can see the finished product.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Where's the pics of your nuts?


----------



## Vegetta

Durero said:


> I'm with Jim on this one - I've owed Kahler & Floyd systems and I think the Kahler lock-nut is slightly better just because you're not stuck with a pre-determined radius.
> 
> The friction of the nut is absolutely non-existent when the strings are locked.
> 
> Kahler also offers a locking unit that doesn't require a wrench - uses finger levers instead.
> http://www.kahlerparts.com/images/5514.jpg
> A 7 or 8 string version of that would be a great alternative to the Floyd-type nuts.



I had one of those on one of my old esp strats - you just thumb tighten the screws and flip the levers down (levers lock into place) 

The locknuts had a slot so you sould use a penny to tighten them more (Jazz III picks worked well for this - designed so a penny would work) if you over tighten the screws then you couldnt flip the levers down....


----------



## darren

http://www.kahlerusa.com

Go under Products -> Tremolo Bridge Systems -> String Locks


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

But Waylon said that the nuts for these trem's were closer to the Floyd nut. I'm ASSUMING that this means they're an actual nut and don't go behind the nut.


----------



## theunforgiven246

darren said:


> http://www.kahlerusa.com
> 
> Go under Products -> Tremolo Bridge Systems -> String Locks



i was looking at the hybrid trems they had on their site and i was just wondering what was the difference?


----------



## darren

They lock somehow into a fixed bridge.


----------



## theunforgiven246

so its kinda simalier to the zr trem?


----------



## darren

Without having seen the system in action, i can't say. I'm inclined to think it locks even more solidly than the ZR trem. Sort of like a Tremol-No vs. a Trem-Setter.


----------



## Durero

It's not quite as useful as the ZR or the Tremol-No. You need to use a hex wrench to lock or unlock the cam. There are pictures illustrating this here:
http://www.wammiusa.com/comparing.html

I think it's probably best to think of it as a floating trem which you can lock with a tool for re-stringing or for recording or playing a fixed-trem set.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Are they really selling 7 string Kahlers for $250 there? And the 8 string, I wonder if they mean bass or not...


----------



## darren

The 8-string trem is likely the same one Waylon has posted pics of here.


----------



## Tombinator

The prototype arrived in the offices this past Tuesday.

For those attending Winter NAMM, be sure to drop by and check it out.

Cheers!


----------



## Digital Black

19 pages, Lots of eager buyers. No pics. 

Your sales base is right here, don't kick us to the curb!


----------



## Tombinator

Digital Black said:


> 19 pages, Lots of eager buyers. No pics.
> 
> Your sales base is right here, don't kick us to the curb!



I'm sure Waylon will post pics up soon. He left for NAMM early Monday, so he didn't have any time to snap pics or even see it for himself when it arrived. Plus he took the company camera with him, so I was shit out of luck in regards to taking some quick pics for you all. 

He's meeting up with Kahler there, and they'll do some further fine tuning. I did a quality inspection, tuned it up and played around with it. It feels great, nice weight and balance, and contours nicely to the human body...

Kick you to curb? Never! We've been busy here as of late, all the new models are in (both in 6's and 7's, in righties and lefties). Those will be at NAAM as well.

Pics soon! I promise.


----------



## W4D

Here are peekchures of the guitar we had at NAMM. WE WERE THe HIT OF NAMM ON The COVER OF TEH NAMM MAGAZINE THE LARGE FRONT PHOTO AND ALSO ALL OVER THE PRESS AND NAMM TV THINGY

Mohogany Body & Neck
Gotoh Tuners
Telsa Pick Up which will be replaced with EMG 808 (That is something NAMM has changed for the better)
1 pick up standard but two upon request.
1 volume nob standard but more upon request 
27 inch scale
Kahler Trem (Which I modified at NAMM the night before NAMM) Me and Gary are redesigning the tremm saddles to make them wider on teh f#, B, and e string so that ifyou wanna drop it for some reason you can and teh winding of teh string does not fuck it up. Which was an issue i showed him. You will see on the trem where we filed it open more. So teh trems will be here in late february. 
Graphite nut which will be replaced with locking nut.

ALL THIS FOR THE STARTING STREET PRICE OF $1250 for a starting price and goes up with every modification.


----------



## NegaTiveXero

How much for a fixed bridge one?

It looks fucking badass by the way.


----------



## Donnie

Waylon, that 8 looks pretty damn nice!


----------



## W4D

NegaTiveXero said:


> How much for a fixed bridge one?
> 
> It looks fucking badass by the way.



Kahler fix bridge or hop shot?



Flash said:


> Waylon, that 8 looks pretty damn nice!



Thanks. OH AND IT HAD A DUAL RODS IN TEH NECK



Flash said:


> Waylon, that 8 looks pretty damn nice!



Thanks. 

SOME BIG NEWS WILL BE COMING IN TEH NEAR FUTURE. A *HUGE* ARTIST WILL BECOME PART OF OUR EIGHT STRING FAMILY.


----------



## darren

I'd be interested to know how low you can get the price with a stripped-down version:

- oil finish
- single Tesla pickup
- Hipshot fixed bridge


----------



## NegaTiveXero

W4D said:


> Kahler fix bridge or hop shot?



The hipshot bridge.


----------



## XEN

Sweet mother of Jehosaphat! That came out great!! Waylon, I hope you sell them by the truckload! It's so awesome to see that design go to good use. I can't wait to hear who will be joining the 8 string fold.


----------



## W4D

darren said:


> I'd be interested to know how low you can get the price with a stripped-down version:
> 
> - oil finish
> - single Tesla pickup
> - Hipshot fixed bridge



$1,100.00 USD + Shipping



NegaTiveXero said:


> The hipshot bridge.



$1,200 USD + Shipping



urklvt said:


> Sweet mother of Jehosaphat! That came out great!! Waylon, I hope you sell them by the truckload! It's so awesome to see that design go to good use. I can't wait to hear who will be joining the 8 string fold.



YUP ! we were swamped with artists leaving other compnaies and coming to us. People left IBANEZ, ESP, SCHECTER, JACKSON, DEAN, and BC RICH to come to us

I will keep you all posted as soon as the contracts are signed.


----------



## the.godfather

That looks amazing dude!  

I will definitely look at this when I am in the market for one. Which wont be too long I doubt. Looks awesome though, and Kahler =


----------



## theunforgiven246

FUCKING WONDERFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how much would one cost with 2 pickups and a trem with i guess the cheapest paint job?


----------



## HotRodded7321

I'm in the market NOW....GIVE ME SPECS!!! PM sent...I might just tell Ibanez ---->


----------



## W4D

theunforgiven246 said:


> FUCKING WONDERFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how much would one cost with 2 pickups and a trem with i guess the cheapest paint job?



$1,400 USD + Shipping


----------



## zimbloth

How much for an ebony board?


----------



## W4D

zimbloth said:


> How much for an ebony board?



original and with just an ebony fretboardadded $1,500 USD + Shipping allow 90 days for building it


----------



## HotRodded7321

OK....tonight I'm tellin Ibanez ..... and monday or tuesday, I'm gettin one of these....main reason.....only a bridge pickup and MAHOGANY = PURE SEX!!!! That and it's about 400.00 cheaper than my original price....still w/case, too! Sweet deal!


----------



## Seedawakener

wooow, that came out great! Looks fucking awesome. I hope your business will go well in the future! Fucking great price for a custom... I mean Ibanez are selling their 8 string for... a couple of hundred more? and theirs isnt even handbuilt. NICE.


----------



## W4D

HotRodded7321 said:


> OK....tonight I'm tellin Ibanez ..... and monday or tuesday, I'm gettin one of these....main reason.....only a bridge pickup and MAHOGANY = PURE SEX!!!! That and it's about 400.00 cheaper than my original price....still w/case, too! Sweet deal!



I look forward to dealing with ya.


----------



## BrianCarroll

How much for a 30" scale ?


----------



## W4D

Everything standard but with a 30" scale.... Call it. $2,000 USD plus shipping


----------



## Pauly

Cool guitar!


----------



## W4D

Pauly said:


> Cool guitar!



AWSOME! THANKS. COMES IN A LEFTY AS WELL...


----------



## D-EJ915

Dude, that's pretty freaking awesome, and sick price too.


----------



## W4D

D-EJ915 said:


> Dude, that's pretty freaking awesome, and sick price too.



Thanks!


----------



## Ror3h

Damn that looks good!
Wish I had some money or I'd probably order a barebones one, with the hipshot bridge, one EMG and an oil finish or plain black. Whatever is the cheapest.
Out of interest though how much would that cost?
I guess shipping to the UK + customs would add a bit aswell.
Rory


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

I still want to see pictures of your nuts Waylon.


----------



## THE VILE

^


----------



## W4D

Ror3h said:


> Damn that looks good!
> Wish I had some money or I'd probably order a barebones one, with the hipshot bridge, one EMG and an oil finish or plain black. Whatever is the cheapest.
> Out of interest though how much would that cost?
> I guess shipping to the UK + customs would add a bit aswell.
> Rory



8 string
Oil Finish or Black
EMG 808
HipShot Bridge

$1,200 dollars + shipping to the UK I need you address to quote you shipping 



JJ Rodriguez said:


> I still want to see pictures of your nuts Waylon.



UZIP HERE YOU GO SIR! CAN ANYONE SAY TEA BAG! LOL will get you pics soon.


----------



## skinhead

Amazin, Waylon!

I like the shape and the only EMG808, it's a perfect combo/looking.

Congrats!


----------



## NDG

That does look cool  

As does the Tempest 

Congrats with your success at NAMM.


----------



## Desecrated

1 What is the absolut cheapest alternativ, alder bodyinstead of mahogny, fixed bridge, black paint and so on, is there anyway of getting the guitar for 999:-

2 What would a transparent darkred paint, emg 808, fixed bridge and alder body cost ?


----------



## Project2501

W4D said:


> Here are peekchures of the guitar we had at NAMM. WE WERE THe HIT OF NAMM ON The COVER OF TEH NAMM MAGAZINE THE LARGE FRONT PHOTO AND ALSO ALL OVER THE PRESS AND NAMM TV THINGY
> 
> Mohogany Body & Neck
> Gotoh Tuners
> Telsa Pick Up which will be replaced with EMG 808 (That is something NAMM has changed for the better)
> 1 pick up standard but two upon request.
> 1 volume nob standard but more upon request
> 27 inch scale
> Kahler Trem (Which I modified at NAMM the night before NAMM) Me and Gary are redesigning the tremm saddles to make them wider on teh f#, B, and e string so that ifyou wanna drop it for some reason you can and teh winding of teh string does not fuck it up. Which was an issue i showed him. You will see on the trem where we filed it open more. So teh trems will be here in late february.
> Graphite nut which will be replaced with locking nut.
> 
> ALL THIS FOR THE STARTING STREET PRICE OF $1250 for a starting price and goes up with every modification.



Looks cool!

What's the Fretboard Radius and Fret Size?


----------



## Roundhouse_Kick

That is absolutely beautiful!  

What is the payment process? Deposit up front and rest on completion or is it all at once? Is the build time for all of them 90 days like you said with zimbloth or would it be less for a standard order?


----------



## W4D

skinhead said:


> Amazin, Waylon!
> 
> I like the shape and the only EMG808, it's a perfect combo/looking.
> 
> Congrats!



Thanks 



Mahathera said:


> That does look cool
> 
> As does the Tempest
> 
> Congrats with your success at NAMM.



Thank you and thank you. Yeah we got great responses on everything this year. 




Desecrated said:


> 1 What is the absolut cheapest alternativ, alder bodyinstead of mahogny, fixed bridge, black paint and so on, is there anyway of getting the guitar for 999:-
> 
> 2 What would a transparent darkred paint, emg 808, fixed bridge and alder body cost ?



sent you a PM



Project2501 said:


> Looks cool!
> 
> What's the Fretboard Radius and Fret Size?



Flat radius fretboard. Medium Jumbo frets.



Roundhouse_Kick said:


> That is absolutely beautiful!
> 
> What is the payment process? Deposit up front and rest on completion or is it all at once? Is the build time for all of them 90 days like you said with zimbloth or would it be less for a standard order?



All at once and then you pay for the shipping before we ship it out to you. As for build time I always liek give a buffer of 90 days so could be less but I always say 90 days. If sooner then we are all happy.


----------



## Tombinator

Don't forget about the dual trussrods. Yaaargh!


----------



## theunforgiven246

how does mahogany sound for the f#?


----------



## W4D

theunforgiven246 said:


> how does mahogany sound for the f#?



sounds very nice. Offers alot in ways of smoothness and sustain. Sounds alot better than Bass Wood or Ash


----------



## Desecrated

W4D said:


> sounds very nice. Offers alot in ways of smoothness and sustain. Sounds alot better than Bass Wood or Ash



Can you teach us more o great master, 
Many young padwans on this site think that mahogny is to muddy for low tunings.


----------



## NegaTiveXero

Actually, I have a weird question. How did Tesla feel when you decided to go with EMG after they made you pickups? Did they cry a little?


----------



## noodles

That guitar > Ibanez RG8


----------



## W4D

Desecrated said:


> Can you teach us more o great master,
> Many young padwans on this site think that mahogny is to muddy for low tunings.



Yes come with me young padwan I will show you the way. I feel the force is strong with you. <Pulls up to Storm Troopers> <Waves hand>These are not the shredders you want.



NegaTiveXero said:


> Actually, I have a weird question. How did Tesla feel when you decided to go with EMG after they made you pickups? Did they cry a little?



Well you know. I made one with Tesla and Made one with EMG and well lets just say that it was my decision to go with the EMG. It will function and sound much better than the other. The one they sent me after comparing the two did not impress me enough to pass up a great deal from Jack.



noodles said:


> That guitar > Ibanez RG8



Thanks the math signs confused me a bit . Thanks Noodles


----------



## Donnie

Waylon, I believe he is saying that your 8 is "greater" than the Ibanez one.


----------



## W4D

Flash said:


> Waylon, I believe he is saying that your 8 is "greater" than the Ibanez one.



I corrected my statement. The math signs confused me for a second LOL.


----------



## huber

This guitar may be my first dive into the 8 string world, but I need to gather some money first.

That's a fine lookin' guitar.


----------



## Desecrated

But on a serius note, the mahgony isent to muddy for the 8 string then ? 
Can we get a soundclip of this thing ? 
any video like the as the one with Tony Smotherman ?


----------



## W4D

Desecrated said:


> But on a serius note, the mahgony isent to muddy for the 8 string then ?
> Can we get a soundclip of this thing ?
> any video like the as the one with Tony Smotherman ?



I can get you a sound clip and video. Give me a few to find some one willing and able to perform the best with the 8 string. 

I am not the 8 string shredder , but i will find someone and have one made.


----------



## ElRay

Just saw this. It's in an old part of the thread, but at least I'm not resurrecting an inactive thread:



urklvt said:


> Fanned frets are out of the question because of the Novax license fee.



I doubt it. The label "fanned fret" is trademarked, but Novax doesn't have a patent on multi-scale aka compound scale guitars. There's 400+ years of prior art for that. What he does have is a patent on a particular method for laying out the frets.

This is where it gets interesting. Novax Guitars doesn't even use the method he patented. There have been folks that have analyzed the method described in the patent, and if it was followed, the intonation would be way off. If you pay the $75 licensing fee, the method they teach you is to plot the two outside scales and connect the dots. That is not what was patented, it is an obvious solution (patents must not be for obvious solutions), it's arguably a mathematical formula (also un-patentable) and fits into examples of prior art.

Add to that the fact that despite the claims that they have successfully defended their patent in court, nobody from Novax guitars can cite any cases. Bill Carrico, the General Manager of Novax Guitars even been online spreading the myth that their patent covers all multi-scale guitars made in, or imported into the US and has ignored every request I could find for case numbers, etc.. For example, when asked "Has the patent ever been tested in court?", Bill's reply was:


> And all the legal stuff? Someone should take that up in a legal forum and see what they come up with.


 The question simply requires a Yes/No answer, not an evasive answer like this. I also have not seen any mention of cases found in Lexus/Nexus. 

Finally, when asked how some of the other methods of laying out multi-scaled frets violate Novax's patent, Bill actually said:


> I will not point out to any competitors just what that difference is as that would inform any attempt to mount a competing patent.


Sounds impressive, but a utility patent application requires full disclosure in clear enough language to prevent anybody from filing a competing claim for the same invention. So if the patent isn't clear, and Novax Guitars refuses to specify how a supposedly infringing design infringes on their patent, it adds doubt to the claim that the patent would (has already) stand-up in court.

That said, IANAL, and I definitely don't have the cash to take it to court. 

Ray


----------



## W4D

ElRay said:


> Just saw this. It's in an old part of the thread, but at least I'm not resurrecting an inactive thread:
> 
> 
> 
> I doubt it. The label "fanned fret" is trademarked, but Novax doesn't have a patent on multi-scale aka compound scale guitars. There's 400+ years of prior art for that. What he does have is a patent on a particular method for laying out the frets.
> 
> This is where it gets interesting. Novax Guitars doesn't even use the method he patented. There have been folks that have analyzed the method described in the patent, and if it was followed, the intonation would be way off. If you pay the $75 licensing fee, the method they teach you is to plot the two outside scales and connect the dots. That is not what was patented, it is an obvious solution (patents must not be for obvious solutions), it's arguably a mathematical formula (also un-patentable) and fits into examples of prior art.
> 
> Add to that the fact that despite the claims that they have successfully defended their patent in court, nobody from Novax guitars can cite any cases. Bill Carrico, the General Manager of Novax Guitars even been online spreading the myth that their patent covers all multi-scale guitars made in, or imported into the US and has ignored every request I could find for case numbers, etc.. For example, when asked "Has the patent ever been tested in court?", Bill's reply was: The question simply requires a Yes/No answer, not an evasive answer like this. I also have not seen any mention of cases found in Lexus/Nexus.
> 
> Finally, when asked how some of the other methods of laying out multi-scaled frets violate Novax's patent, Bill actually said:Sounds impressive, but a utility patent application requires full disclosure in clear enough language to prevent anybody from filing a competing claim for the same invention. So if the patent isn't clear, and Novax Guitars refuses to specify how a supposedly infringing design infringes on their patent, it adds doubt to the claim that the patent would (has already) stand-up in court.
> 
> That said, IANAL, and I definitely don't have the cash to take it to court.
> 
> Ray



Very Interesting.


----------



## XEN

That has since become a moot point and has been discussed at length in this and other threads. Apparently there is no license fee to pay any longer.


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## W4D

urklvt said:


> That has since become a moot point and has been discussed at length in this and other threads. Apparently there is no license fee to pay any longer.



Well then.... Give something to think about.


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## dpm

Exactly correct, Eric. Just remember that the name "Fanned Frets" belongs to Novax - you can't use that without permission.


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## Durero

urklvt said:


> That has since become a moot point and has been discussed at length in this and other threads. Apparently there is no license fee to pay any longer.


+1 
I agree with everything Ray said about how ridiculous the fanned-fret patent was in the first place, but, as of last year, it has expired.

So we can all multi-scale or compound-scale to our hearts content, but just don't market anything as 'fanned-fret' as that's a Novax trademark.


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## chris9

W4D said:


> I can get you a sound clip and video. Give me a few to find some one willing and able to perform the best with the 8 string.
> 
> I am not the 8 string shredder , but i will find someone and have one made.




When i get my octavia 8 i,ll make you a mental shredding video!!!!!!


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## W4D

chris9 said:


> When i get my octavia 8 i,ll make you a mental shredding video!!!!!!



That would be awesome!


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## JJ Rodriguez

I'm still waiting to see your nuts.


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## chris9

W4D said:


> That would be awesome!



Ha ha may be !!
i,ll try and make extra mental!!!!! for ya

i should have it soon shouldn,t i


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## W4D

chris9 said:


> Ha ha may be !!
> i,ll try and make extra mental!!!!! for ya
> 
> i should have it soon shouldn,t i



YUP YUP


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## W4D

The nuts are on there way everyone. And the EMG's will be here end of this month. So these beasts will be shipping. To all who has ordered them.


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## Desecrated

W4D said:


>



OMG!!!

set neck
lifetime warrantiy
that is one sweet deal.


----------



## Scott

Awe what the hell? What's with the upcharge?


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## mefrommiddleearth

Scott said:


> Awe what the hell? What's with the upcharge?



probably covering sub-contractor charges as there machines would be set up for right handed instraments also they may charge more per guitar for smaller runs.


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## Scott

You stay out of this!


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## NDG

6 and 7 string models too, eh? Are those going to be the same scale or 25.5"?


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## nyck

Scott said:


> Awe what the hell? What's with the upcharge?


Kahler trem dude...


----------



## NegaTiveXero

So, how much for the seven string version?

27" with 2 EMG 707s (or maybe a 60-7 in the neck/ or even two DiMarzio D Activators), a hipshot bridge, and an oil finish.


----------



## Scott

nyck said:


> Kahler trem dude...



What about it? The same Kahler trem that is used on the right handed guitar is used on the left handed guitar. There is no "Left handed Kahler trem" They are universal for both lefty and righty players.


SWING!



....and a miss


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## NegaTiveXero

Scott said:


> What about it? The same Kahler trem that is used on the right handed guitar is used on the left handed guitar. There is no "Left handed Kahler trem" They are universal for both lefty and righty players.
> 
> 
> SWING!
> 
> 
> 
> ....and a miss



I think that he thinks your talking about the actual price of the guitar going up from $1000, but you're talking about the $50 measly extra dollars for a lefty model. Now that we're all clear on that. It's probably because he hates you.


----------



## Scott

^Yeah, that's what I was talking about.


I'm sad now


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## huber

Man I want one of these bad. Gotta start putting my money away.


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## W4D

Scott said:


> Awe what the hell? What's with the upcharge?



Only 50 dollars difference for a lefty.

That covers machining of the lefty nuts and bodies.

I do not think that is a huge upcharge considering what other people charge.



Scott said:


> ^Yeah, that's what I was talking about.
> 
> 
> I'm sad now



Well, first of all from the origibal design I switched from Hipshot bridge to a kahler, telsa pickups to EMG 808, Basswood body maple neck to mohogany body and mohogany neck.

That raised the price up just a tad. I hope you understand.



NegaTiveXero said:


> I think that he thinks your talking about the actual price of the guitar going up from $1000, but you're talking about the $50 measly extra dollars for a lefty model. Now that we're all clear on that. It's probably because he hates you.



For the record I do not hate you.



huber said:


> Man I want one of these bad. Gotta start putting my money away.



Just let me know when you are ready



Mahathera said:


> 6 and 7 string models too, eh? Are those going to be the same scale or 25.5"?



either. you tell me when youorder it.


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## ChaNce

W4D, on the ad/printable that you posted on the last page, is that finished/complete? There are a few little twitchy things in the writing that, if changed, would make it much stronger. If you are interested, Ill make the changes and send them to you, you can use them or not (it will take me about 2 minutes). 

I'm not going to bother if you have already sent it off, however.

Edit: I sent you a PM.


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## W4D

ChaNce said:


> W4D, on the ad/printable that you posted on the last page, is that finished/complete? There are a few little twitchy things in the writing that, if changed, would make it much stronger. If you are interested, Ill make the changes and send them to you, you can use them or not (it will take me about 2 minutes).
> 
> I'm not going to bother if you have already sent it off, however.
> 
> Edit: I sent you a PM.



Thanks. Very much. We all know that my grammer sucks ars.


----------



## W4D

Ok I just wanted to let all of you here on sevenstring.org know that I will be giving all members of ss.org an additional 20% off all our guitarswhen you order through our website store.

PM me and I will give you your coupon code.

Just my way of saying thanks.

*As of 06-05-07 this is only available on all standard models due to new parts supliers.*


----------



## Desecrated

It´s going to take me 8 months to shake togheter the money, I gues these guitars will be sold all year right ?


----------



## W4D

Desecrated said:


> It´s going to take me 8 months to shake togheter the money, I gues these guitars will be sold all year right ?



yes they will be available always


----------



## OzzyC

W4D said:


> Ok I just wanted to let all of you here on sevenstring.org know that I will be giving all members of ss.org an additional 20% off all our guitarswhen you order through our website store.
> 
> PM me and I will give you your coupon code.
> 
> Just my way of saying thanks.
> 
> This is good on all of our guitar models including custom orders on the custom shop section.



your an awesome guy  

if i were to ever get an 8 id be sire to chech out yours
...and then beg at the feet of my parents for months


----------



## W4D

OzzyC said:


> your an awesome guy
> 
> if i were to ever get an 8 id be sire to chech out yours
> ...and then beg at the feet of my parents for months



Well you know we make 6's & 7's too.


----------



## NegaTiveXero

NegaTiveXero said:


> So, how much for the seven string version?
> 
> 27" with 2 EMG 707s (or maybe a 60-7 in the neck/ or even two DiMarzio D Activators), a hipshot bridge, and an oil finish.



Hey, Waylon, would you be able to answer this for me?


----------



## W4D

JUST LETTING YOU ALL KNOW THIS WEEKEND IS PRESIDENTS DAY WEEKEND. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THE *OCTAVIA (8 STRING)* IT WILL BE ON SALE FOR _*$900 DOLLARS*_ FROM *(FRIDAY THE 16th - MONDAY THE 19th)* 

ALL OF OUR OTHER GUITARS WILL ALSO BE ON SALE WITH SAVINGS UPTO 50% OFF
​


----------



## W4D

*SALE STARTS TODAY*


----------



## Desecrated

You can´t click on the 8string on your webpage.


----------



## W4D

Desecrated said:


> You can´t click on the 8string on your webpage.



Hmm iwill fix it here ya go check this out until i fix it


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## JJ Rodriguez

I'm assuming these have the locking nuts? We still havn't gotten to see them yet.


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I'm assuming these have the locking nuts? We still havn't gotten to see them yet.



yes they will come with them on it. unless requested other wise


----------



## Desecrated

W4D said:


> I can get you a sound clip and video. Give me a few to find some one willing and able to perform the best with the 8 string.
> 
> I am not the 8 string shredder , but i will find someone and have one made.



any luck with this yet ?


----------



## B Lopez

Are these made here?


----------



## W4D

B Lopez said:


> Are these made here?



Your local come on over i have one here


----------



## theunforgiven246

did we ever get to see your nuts?


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Anyone grab one of the Kahler hybrids yet? I'm thinking of getting one here soon, and I want to know whether the Hybrids can stand up against the Pro's in quality/tone/stability. I know other people said that stability is the same, but anyone know about tonally?

Oh yeah, and we still want to see your nuts


----------



## technomancer

A pic of the back in addition to the front would be nice on this as well.

Ignore this, I backtracked and found the pics


----------



## W4D

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Anyone grab one of the Kahler hybrids yet? I'm thinking of getting one here soon, and I want to know whether the Hybrids can stand up against the Pro's in quality/tone/stability. I know other people said that stability is the same, but anyone know about tonally?
> 
> Oh yeah, and we still want to see your nuts





Here are my nuts! Hope all of you who have been wanting to see my nuts enjoy them! LOL!  

I co designed with Gary Kahler.


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## NegaTiveXero

Thems some mighty nuts you got going thar.


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

What's the maximum string gauge for the low string? And what do they taste like?


----------



## technomancer

JJ Rodriguez said:


> What's the maximum string gauge for the low string? And what do they taste like?



I'll second the former question and  to the latter 

I'd probably be looking to use an Elixir 10-56 set with a 68 for the 7th and 80 for for the 8th strings tuned F#-B-E-A-D-G-B-E

Also what string gauge do these ship with?

I'm also curious, does the intonation screw on the Kahler trems actually move the saddle, or just unlock it so you can slide it. If it just unlocks it, is there an intonation tool available for them?


----------



## technomancer

Ok, just got off the phone with Halo. The locking nuts will go up to at least 82, probably larger.

I just said screw it and ordered one of these bad boys:

- White
- Single bridge 808 + volume & tone control
- 3 piece unpainted maple neck
- blank ebony fretboard with white binding
- Kahler trem & locking nut

Yes, this will in fact be my last purchase for a while


----------



## D-EJ915

Awesome dude, I hope you like it, wonder what it looks like in white.


----------



## W4D

D-EJ915 said:


> Awesome dude, I hope you like it, wonder what it looks like in white.



It will look like this but with 8 strings and an EMG 808 and Black Hardware and a different nut oh and a maple neck not Mahogany and an ebony fingerboard


----------



## technomancer

mmmm that is going to be SO hot 

IMHO the black hardware will definitely look better on the white (and you won't be able to tell what the neck is made of from the front) 

Actually that looks sort of funny as a six... the neck looks way too tiny compared to the body.


----------



## W4D

Here ya go My personal 8 string Octavia


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## amonb

That is hot!


----------



## W4D

amonb said:


> That is hot!



thanks


----------



## technomancer

W4D said:


> Here ya go My personal 8 string Octavia



Nice, now where the hell is mine


----------



## amonb

W4D said:


> thanks



How much for that?


----------



## W4D

amonb said:


> How much for that?



$1250


----------



## amonb

Do you ship to Australia? And what's the turnaround..I figure u are busy!


----------



## W4D

amonb said:


> Do you ship to Australia? And what's the turnaround..I figure u are busy!



What are you going to be tuning to? 

I have a shipment of Octavia's coming in in about 45 to 50 days.

And yes we ship to Austrailia


----------



## amonb

You know I hadn't thought of that, I was just sounding out prices and whether Australia is in the postal area. Thats a whole new dilemma...the tuning!


----------



## W4D

amonb said:


> You know I hadn't thought of that, I was just sounding out prices and whether Australia is in the postal area. Thats a whole new dilemma...the tuning!



High A or Low F#


----------



## amonb

The Low F# would be the way to go I reckon... I must admit I love the Meshuggah tone


----------



## W4D

amonb said:


> The Low F# would be the way to go I reckon... I must admit I love the Meshuggah tone



I will have the shipment of 28" scale for low f in 45 - 50 days.


----------



## W4D

The Hellfire 8 String


----------



## amonb

Dude I won't nag u any more but your guitars look great!


----------



## W4D

amonb said:


> Dude I won't nag u any more but your guitars look great!



Not nagging me at all my pleasure and thanks


----------



## technomancer

W4D said:


> The Hellfire 8 String



Is that the input jack on the front?


----------



## Eric

I hope not...


----------



## Stitch

Sweet Jesus dude. $1250 - thats less than an RG1527 over here, and thats pretty freakin' expensive. 

I atek it you ironed out all the QC issues you had way back?

That looks awesome. Do they ship with hardcases? Ridiculous request at that price, but can't blame a man for trying


----------



## TMM

These all look great, except for the headstocks... I haven't seen a Halo headstock that I was a fan of yet. I dislike them enough that they ruin the whole guitar for me. That Octavia would be 2 or 3x as hot if it didn't have such a mundane looking head... my personal opinion.

I'm willing to make suggestions if you're looking for any.


----------



## Scott

What do you mean when you say you'll be receiving a shipment of Octavia's in 45 days? Are they made overseas?


----------



## Ishan

They are MIK I believe.


----------



## technomancer

Ishan said:


> They are MIK I believe.



Correct, non-custom shop Halos are made at the Halo factory in Korea


----------



## darren

technomancer said:


> Is that the input jack on the front?



Nope. It's an _output_ jack. Big difference!


----------



## W4D

technomancer said:


> Is that the input jack on the front?





darren said:


> Nope. It's an _output_ jack. Big difference!



Yes it is. Funny story actually.

When I built it. My dumb ass forgot to make a hole on the side of the fin for the output jack. If you notice from the normal body style which has three knobs and one toggle this has two knobs and 1 toggle. To bypass the mistake I did I used the holes that were already in-play and just called this one *MINE*. LOL

In the immortal words of Bob Ross "Happy Little Accident". LOL


----------



## D-EJ915

lol nice one


----------



## W4D

D-EJ915 said:


> lol nice one



I know. Right.


----------



## heavy7-665

that hellfire is gorgeous................


----------



## Scott

technomancer said:


> Correct, non-custom shop Halos are made at the Halo factory in Korea




Ahh. I didn't know Halo was offering 8's outside of the custom shop.


[action=Scott]is falling behind [/action]


----------



## heavy7-665

im about to empty my savings


----------



## amonb

heavy7-665 said:


> im about to empty my savings


----------



## Desecrated

I wish I had some savings to. I've been trying to sell my other two guitars, but the interest for 7-string in sweden is pretty low.


----------



## heavy7-665

Desecrated said:


> I wish I had some savings to. I've been trying to sell my other two guitars, but the interest for 7-string in sweden is pretty low.



that sux


----------

