# Death Metal vs Black Metal



## SERAPHEUM (Nov 26, 2008)

So how do you guys separate the two. I know nowadays, everything and anything goes, but what in your mind is the diff between the two subgenres? Is it mostly the lyrics? 
Nick


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 26, 2008)

The style really. Some bands are blackened death metal, but to me they are pretty much separate. Death metal is more technical, and even though there are some black metal bands with clean production, generally production is a lot better. Black metal is rawer, and generally pretty simplistic, a lot of trem picked shit. I don't know, it's pretty hard to explain  There's more to it than that, I just know when I'm listening to one or the other.


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## Xaios (Nov 26, 2008)

*Death Metal:*
Chugging low end riffing
Very fast
Often very technical
Deep, gutteral vocals
Frequent use of atonality


*Black Metal:*
Also very fast
Usually not as technical
Simpler beats
Riffs often based around 80s thrash styles
Higher, banshee-like vocals
Often satanic or anti-christian themes
Traditionally not good production values

The biggest difference is the thematics, vocals, and production values. Black metal is more often than not based around satanic, anti-christian (sometimes both), or Norse themes. Death metal moves between a few themes, including the aforementioned, but also including more personal themes, as well as themes revolving around violence and carnage.

The vocals is what most characterizes the genres. Death metal vocals are often deep and gutteral, where as black metal vocals are often higher pitched and shrill. Some bands mix the two, as JJ said, into blackened death metal.

Production values are also key. Death metal production is usually quite good. It often features scooped mids. When death metal is not well produced, it will sound muddy. Black metal, on the other hand, is typically not as well produced, in keeping with the pretenses of the black metal movement when it first began. They had a belief that they should "only do one take." When black metal is well produced, it will be a balanced tone with an emphasis on mids. If not, it will be high and thin sounding.

Required listening:

Death Metal:
Morbid Angel
Death
Boltthrower
Cryptopsy
Nile
Cannibal Corpse
Origin
Meshuggah
Suffocation


Black Metal:
Immortal
Emperor
Burzum
Deathspell Omega
Carpathian Forest
Marduk
Bathory

There's also Melodic Death Metal, which blends death metal and melodic thrash sensibilities together. Required listening:
In Flames (In particular, listen to The Jester Race, Whoracle and Colony)
Dark Tranquillity
Soilwork
Scar Symmetry
At The Gates
Arsis
Carcass (Specifically, Heartwork)


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## Dwellingers (Nov 26, 2008)

Death metal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Black metal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

thats how I would seperate the two.


...oh and many consider blackmetal to be a response to deathmetal, history-wise, `cause at the time blackmetal-musicians thought deathmetal lacked spirit, sincerity and nerve - that the scene was filled with posers etc.


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## abysmalrites (Nov 26, 2008)

After a while you can just tell. Basically everything JJ said +1.


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## Xaios (Nov 26, 2008)

Dwellingers said:


> Death metal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Black metal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> thats how I would seperate the two.
> ...



Perhaps, but it's not how black metal developed. They got their start at around the same time, although black started SLIGHTLY earlier with Venom laying the foundation before death metal really formed.


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## Randy (Nov 26, 2008)

There was a pretty serious battle going on between black metal and death metal "back in the day" actually. The interview with Nergal with MetalKult framed it a little bit, but I've heard other accounts as well. I've even heard the rise of black metal credited as a response to spread of death metal.

EDIT: I believe it was in here, somewhere; http://www.metalkult.com/videos/behemoth-the-metalkult-interview/


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## gatesofcarnage (Nov 26, 2008)

JJ says it all.


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## Anthony (Nov 26, 2008)

Randy said:


> There was a pretty serious battle going on between black metal and death metal "back in the day" actually. The interview with Nergal with MetalKult framed it a little bit, but I've heard other accounts as well. I've even heard the rise of black metal credited as a response to spread of death metal.
> 
> EDIT: I believe it was in here, somewhere; MetalKult » BEHEMOTH: The MetalKult Interview



Cool interview. Nergal is great to listen to.


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## TimSE (Nov 26, 2008)

Death is technical, aggresive and heavy to the balls

Black is just silly and image bassed


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## Variant (Nov 26, 2008)

Also, general song structure is one of the _*big*_ differentiation points, where black metal is more structured and more likely to cycle through phrases, repeat choruses, etc., death metal is, traditionally, much more freeform, with songs developing as they go.


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## SERAPHEUM (Nov 26, 2008)

So what do you consider bands like Cradle of Filth, Abigail Williams, etc? Symphonic black death metal <G>? Where do using keyboards come into play? What would you define the band Hail The Night?


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## gaunten (Nov 26, 2008)

Xaios said:


> Death Metal:
> 
> Meshuggah
> 
> ...



great post, although Meshuggah is probably the last band I'd label as death metal...
also, almost all those "melodic death metal" bands are what are usually called "the gothenburg sound" around here at least.
at least In Flames, Dark Tranquility and Scar Symmetry, and some of Soilwork as well. and At the gates IIRC.


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## Meldville (Nov 26, 2008)

SERAPHEUM said:


> So what do you consider bands like Cradle of Filth, Abigail Williams, etc? Symphonic black death metal <G>? Where do using keyboards come into play? What would you define the band Hail The Night?



That's tough, because there's an argument against bands like CoF and AW as being labeled "black metal" at all. There's more to it than just the music, as there's a very strict historical and ideological background for black metal. But after a while it comes down to opinion, I guess. Varg was quoted as saying he felt like latter-day Emperor sucked and wasn't black metal at all. So....go figure. 



Xaios said:


> Perhaps, but it's not how black metal developed. They got their start at around the same time, although black started SLIGHTLY earlier with Venom laying the foundation before death metal really formed.



The groundwork was there, but it wasn't until DM got bigger that the Black Metal movement (especially in Norway) got really going. In Lords of Chaos, you see that there was a very strong anti-death metal sentiment in the way that Black Metal progressed, especially with bands like Mayhem, Burzum, etc.


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## Jongpil Yun (Nov 26, 2008)

I always thought the biggest difference was the vocals.


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## UGH (Nov 26, 2008)

Totalselfhatred vs. Hate Eternal. Now we're getting somewhere.....


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 27, 2008)

Ben Hutcherson said:


> Varg was quoted as saying he felt like latter-day Emperor sucked and wasn't black metal at all. So....go figure.



Latter day Emperor ISN'T black metal. It's like progressive extreme or some other obscure sub genre  It still fucking rocks though


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## Xaios (Nov 27, 2008)

gaunten said:


> also, almost all those "melodic death metal" bands are what are usually called "the gothenburg sound" around here at least.
> at least In Flames, Dark Tranquility and Scar Symmetry, and some of Soilwork as well. and At the gates IIRC.



Weeeeell, to be fair, aside from some proto-melodeath albums from Amorphis and Sentenced, melodeath didn't gain huge exposure until At The Gates - Slaughter of the Soul, In Flames - The Jester Race, and Dark Tranquillity - The Gallery dropped, so it's fair to say that the Gothenburg sound is the root of melodic death metal. Of course, since then other bands have also done their own thing, such as Arsis and Vehemence.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 27, 2008)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Latter day Emperor ISN'T black metal. It's like progressive extreme or some other obscure sub genre  It still fucking rocks though


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## Dyingsea (Nov 28, 2008)

How has no one mentioned the atmosphere and conviction in black metal? I mean that's really it. Black metal has an almost dreamlike and beautiful atmosphere to it. It speaks from another world and that's what makes it what it is. Death metal can't even begin to pull that off.


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## 7deadlysins666 (Nov 28, 2008)

One more thing i've noticed is the different types of chords that are used often in the two Genres

The "Black Metal" Chord


> G---4--|
> D---5--|
> A---7--|
> E---0--|



Try picking that Fast....like horse picking. Black metal.

Now compare that to the "Morbid Angel" chord:


> D------|
> A---7--|
> E---4--|
> B---5--|



and of course the "Death" Chord


> G--9-|
> D--9-|
> A--7-|
> E--7-|


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## killiansguitar (Nov 28, 2008)

Shmeeh....its all metal to me. Fuck all these labels, they are entirely too subjective.


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## BurialWithin (Nov 28, 2008)

Alright well in my opinion death metal itself is much more technical in structure for example one riff leads to another and that one to another and it flows flawlessly.....at least thats the plan. Death metal is brutal, crushing, and ballsy: SEVERED SAVIOR, DEATH, MORBID ANGEL, NECROPHAGIST, SPAWN OF POSSESSION, ABYSSMAL DAWN........just to new a very very few.Melodic death metal is a great fusion between melodic thrash and death metal brutality listen to DECREPIT BIRTH OR IN FLAMES or BLACK DAHLIA MURDER.
Dealth metal vocals are deep and gutteral and very punchy in your face awesome.

Black metal: Black metal in my eyes is an epic sort of metal that's more simplistic in the music structure. Simple in terms of chords and not many notes and lots trem picking. There's a sort of deep dark ambience added with the keyboards and the screeching vocals. A HA~ Vocals!!! Big difference in vocals black metal has that 
high screeeching banshee witch thing going which is cool. 
Bands: Anagnorisis, Dimmu Borgir, Behemoth,Aurora Black....and a bunch more
So to wrap it up....
if you think viking warrior=black metal
if you think like punching your best friend=death metal
......if your girlfriend breaks up with you = fallout boy


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## Uncle Remus (Nov 28, 2008)

> ......if your girlfriend breaks up with you = fallout boy


 
Yes! 

Tbh with all the bands that combine black/death elements I can safely say i like both. Behemoth for example.


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## Vairocarnal (Nov 28, 2008)

Someone once said that the essence of true black metal is like a flower that exists both alive and dead at the same time in the same place...That same person once said Death 
Metal is the autistic little brother of Black Metal. 
...but then again I've heard that black metal is for pretentious elitists whereas Death metal is for hippie-type socialists...eye of the beholder, I guess?


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## Esp Griffyn (Nov 28, 2008)

SERAPHEUM said:


> So what do you consider bands like Cradle of Filth, Abigail Williams, etc? Symphonic black death metal <G>? Where do using keyboards come into play? What would you define the band Hail The Night?



COF have never really been classified as real black metal; they are a lot more symphonic than most black metal bands (even latter day Emperor didnt have the symphony and arrangements down as well as COF did). COF are a symphonic black pop metal band...well, thats about as close as I can call it! They did write some banging stuff back in the day, before Gian Pyres quit / was fired, who imo was the real talent of the band.


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## winterlover (Nov 28, 2008)

black wins



Esp Griffyn said:


> COF have never really been classified as real black metal; they are a lot more symphonic than most black metal bands (even latter day Emperor didnt have the symphony and arrangements down as well as COF did). COF are a symphonic black pop metal band...well, thats about as close as I can call it! They did write some banging stuff back in the day, before Gian Pyres quit / was fired, who imo was the real talent of the band.



more like a goth girl band, COF i mean


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## FortePenance (Nov 29, 2008)

7deadlysins666 said:


> One more thing i've noticed is the different types of chords that are used often in the two Genres
> 
> The "Black Metal" Chord
> 
> ...



Major chords are used in death metal songs often?


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## Harry (Nov 29, 2008)

Dyingsea said:


> How has no one mentioned the atmosphere and conviction in black metal? I mean that's really it. Black metal has an almost dreamlike and beautiful atmosphere to it. It speaks from another world and that's what makes it what it is. Death metal can't even begin to pull that off.



Very important point


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