# Playstation 4 Thread



## Don Vito

Because the last thread was pretty much "Look I play games on a computer".


What games are you hoping for on the PS4? What do you think it will look like?

Will it have downloadable cake?


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## Stealth7

I'm looking forward to some new Uncharted games. I probably won't get it at launch unless they have something really awesome from the get go.


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## Don Vito

New consoles rarely have many good games at launch. The PS3 had Resistance and maybe another good game... all I remember clearly is that awful Gundam game and Genji Days of the Blade aka Giant Enemy Crabs.


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## Mordacain

Don Vito said:


> New consoles rarely have many good games at launch. The PS3 had Resistance and maybe another good game... all I remember clearly is that awful Gundam game and Genji Days of the Blade aka Giant Enemy Crabs.



Yea, really, the only console launch I can think of that had an awesome game was the Xbox with Halo, second runner-up to the SNES w/ Super Mario Land.


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## axxessdenied

Don Vito said:


> New consoles rarely have many good games at launch. The PS3 had Resistance and maybe another good game... all I remember clearly is that awful Gundam game and Genji Days of the Blade aka Giant Enemy Crabs.



Totally agree. I would be wary of buying the PS4 at launch just because of how the PS3 was during launch, there was serious lack of good games to play. I'm a little sad to see no backwards emulation on the Slims anymore. I wonder if they will have backwards compatibility for PS3 games? 
Hopefully the price point of the console during the initial launch won't be like $499 or $599 or whatever they were when the PS3 first launched!!


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## SpaseMoonkey

axxessdenied said:


> Totally agree. I would be wary of buying the PS4 at launch just because of how the PS3 was during launch, there was serious lack of good games to play. I'm a little sad to see no backwards emulation on the Slims anymore. I wonder if they will have backwards compatibility for PS3 games?
> Hopefully the price point of the console during the initial launch won't be like $499 or $599 or whatever they were when the PS3 first launched!!



Last I heard, it won't be backwards compatible because they are doing away with the cell processor. Also they are looking to simplify the programming aspect, that way it will be easier to port over games.


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## MFB

If they DON'T do backwards compatibility for the PS3 games, they've just fucked themselves out of a good chunk of fans. The system has been going strong for what, 6 year worth of games and they're gonna say, "Nope, can't play them."


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## SpaceDock

I am very curios about their price point, I've heard the new Xbox is looking at $279 and won't use discs at all. I wonder if the ps4 will try to go bigger or stay with disc tech.


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## MFB

SpaceDock said:


> I am very curios about their price point, I've heard the new Xbox is looking at $279 and won't use discs at all. I wonder if the ps4 will try to go bigger or stay with disc tech.



Link for that article please? I think the idea of getting rid of discs is great in theory, but in reality, kind of impractical since drives can be corrupted and  so installing from a disc as a back-up would still be reasonable. Plus, what does that do for collector's editions?

It'll be interesting to see if that happens for next-gens.


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## spattergrind

I'm stoked for it, but please keep the same controller!
It's like the perfect controller IMO. Don't change it. 

So glad they didn't go with the banana controller for the ps3. 






I agree with the backwards compatibility too. If they do, hopefully they will even extend it to PS2 compatible games as well.


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## Don Vito

^ Crikey! I had almost forgotten about that thing 

I'm positive they won't have PS2 backwards compatibility. Besides, I think you can emulate PS2 games these days.


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## Mexi

SpaceDock said:


> I am very curios about their price point, I've heard the new Xbox is looking at $279 and won't use discs at all. I wonder if the ps4 will try to go bigger or stay with disc tech.



WSJ: PlayStation 4 will launch this year | Joystiq

_"The Wall Street Journal also mentions that Sony had considered removing the optical disk drive to make the device download only. However, and this is merely speculation on our part, this idea was dropped when company execs were visited by the ghost of the PSP Go."_

makes sense, by making games download-only they really limit their markets in countries that don't have reliable nation-wide broadband internet access (S. America/Asia).

apparently the new console is going to focus more on the "social-gaming" aspect, which for me suggests more integration w/ social media and the like (which I don't really care for) However, I think they also want to keep pushing the console as a media center by having a better browser, better codec functionality and the ability to listen to music you have stored in-game (hopefully!)

Interesting thing that other posters have mentioned about the first slew of new console games being pretty lame and that will likely be the case this time around. If the PS4 does indeed come out at the end of the year, it will overlap with the continued release of anticipated titles for the PS3. The same kind of overlap happened with the PS2 with great games being released at the end of the dev cycle (shadow of the colossus for example)

first gen of games for the PS4 will probably look like PC games do right now and will progressively get better looking as games get developed on next-gen engines (like UE4) developed for these consoles and next-gen PC videocards

Sony has substantially less of the console market share, so they can't afford to alienate their player base by removing backwards compatibility for PS3 games and a download-only system. Combined with their history of PSN problems from hacking and just bad reputation overall, they're going to have to do a lot to regain consumer confidence in a new console. At least they're not promising that it'll be an "open" system only to close it off and inspire hackers to attack them.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the console overall. I think gamers expect a lot from AAA titles so I don't think we're going to get poorly conceived, tech demo-like flagship launch games.


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## axxessdenied

Don Vito said:


> ^ Crikey! I had almost forgotten about that thing
> 
> I'm positive they won't have PS2 backwards compatibility. Besides, I think you can emulate PS2 games these days.


I've got quite a few games even going back to the original playstation. It sucks having that feature taken away on the current PS3 models!

I'm still pissed that the slim only has 2 usb ports and no backwards compatibility for older games. Can't have a controller charging, PS Eye plugged in and an external hdd / flash drive plugged in all at once. An awesome selling point when we originally got the playstation 3 was that we could play all of our old games, including some original playstation games on it. Not no more. I understand it is because the library of games has grown to the point where backwards compatiblity isn't a big selling point for many people. But, it still sucks to have your original die and be forced to buy these new devices that feel like a downgrade. We couldn't even update our playstation for over a month for some reason and then all of a sudden it started working


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## SpaceDock

There's a good discussion video on ign about the speculations with this and the next Xbox. Their main contention is that MS will release the Xbox info in the next month as well. 

I am really psyched to get on some next gen games. Anyone hear of any games that might be on these systems?


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## Don Vito

And cool artist interpretation of the Playstation 4, via Kotaku. The controller doesn't seem to far fetched. The actual console looks a little too Apple though.


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## Grand Moff Tim

MFB said:


> I think the idea of getting rid of discs is great in theory. ... Plus, what does that do for collector's editions?


 
If it's anything like it currently is for PC, the collector's edition will come with all the collectable goodies, and either a card or a disc with the code to DL them game from whatever service provides it. When I got the Skyrim collector's edition for PC, it came with all the goodies and a disc that included a Steam DL link/code.


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## Don Vito

Is that the one with the dragon statue? I guess they could send stuff like that in the mail.


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## flint757

MFB said:


> Link for that article please? I think the idea of getting rid of discs is great in theory, but in reality, kind of impractical since drives can be corrupted and  so installing from a disc as a back-up would still be reasonable. Plus, what does that do for collector's editions?
> 
> It'll be interesting to see if that happens for next-gens.



Not so great IMO. Disks are far more convenient. I do download all games for PC, but it takes like a week or so to get my whole catalog and in the meantime the internet is at a snails pace. My internet is rather average as well. If I (and the rest of the world) were running on fiber then downloads would totally be the way to go. Currently you can already download games and I suspect they still sell more hard copies especially when they charge you the exact same price 9/10 



Mexi said:


> Sony has substantially less of the console market share, so they can't afford to alienate their player base by removing backwards compatibility for PS3 games and a download-only system. Combined with their history of PSN problems from hacking and just bad reputation overall, they're going to have to do a lot to regain consumer confidence in a new console. At least they're not promising that it'll be an "open" system only to close it off and inspire hackers to attack them.
> 
> I'm cautiously optimistic about the console overall. I think gamers expect a lot from AAA titles so I don't think we're going to get poorly conceived, tech demo-like flagship launch games.



Really? How much of the market do they have? I would have suspected Nintendo being at the bottom, but I suppose they took advantage of the recession with incredibly low prices.


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## Mordacain

flint757 said:


> Not so great IMO. Disks are far more convenient. I do download all games for PC, but it takes like a week or so to get my whole catalog and in the meantime the internet is at a snails pace. My internet is rather average as well. If I (and the rest of the world) were running on fiber then downloads would totally be the way to go. Currently you can already download games and I suspect they still sell more hard copies especially when they charge you the exact same price 9/10



I agree that downloads should be marginally cheaper. I actually prefer download my games now for PC as well, but consoles I am unsure of. I would really like the ability to install games, have them be activated online and then not have to have the bloody disc in the drive any more. That has always been super inconvenient as far as I am concerned.

If games are in the 10Gb+ range, that could a problem for downloads. If Sony uses great compression and gets downloads down to 5Gb or less, that's not bad at all. For me that maybe an hour's download and in many cases, you could have the game preloaded prior to launch and actually start gaming quicker than if you go to a brick and mortar store. They still have a ways to go to get services up to the point that physical copies aren't necessary I think.



flint757 said:


> Really? How much of the market do they have? I would have suspected Nintendo being at the bottom, but I suppose they took advantage of the recession with incredibly low prices.



Sony actually just took over from Xbox360 in market share this month (globally), they're doing just fine. Nintendo won more with novelty, price and by demographic IMO.


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## flint757

Mordacain said:


> I agree that downloads should be marginally cheaper. I actually prefer download my games now for PC as well, but consoles I am unsure of. I would really like the ability to install games, have them be activated online and then not have to have the bloody disc in the drive any more. That has always been super inconvenient as far as I am concerned.
> 
> If games are in the 10Gb+ range, that could a problem for downloads. If Sony uses great compression and gets downloads down to 5Gb or less, that's not bad at all. For me that maybe an hour's download and in many cases, you could have the game preloaded prior to launch and actually start gaming quicker than if you go to a brick and mortar store. They still have a ways to go to get services up to the point that physical copies aren't necessary I think.



I never understood why they charge more. Games are big enough that it isn't necessarily convenient (I live close to Walmart, Target, several Game Stops, etc.). I do like the idea of installing a game from a disk, though, to avoid the initial download.

When I can get 3 MB down it's not terrible, but I can't use other online services during the process. The other issue I've noticed is that even established services, like Steam, seem really slow to me. They don't even take up my whole bandwidth during download typically. I doubt Sony will be able to do much better out the gate. Having said that I have yet to download any PSN Games.

Top that with a few cable/internet companies capping peoples internet and it seems highly unlikely IMO. They'd be alienating capped customers and people with sub par/no internet access.


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## Mordacain

flint757 said:


> I never understood why they charge more. Games are big enough that it isn't necessarily convenient (I live close to Walmart, Target, several Game Stops, etc.). I do like the idea of installing a game from a disk, though, to avoid the initial download.
> 
> When I can get 3 MB down it's not terrible, but I can't use other online services during the process. The other issue I've noticed is that even established services, like Steam, seem really slow to me. They don't even take up my whole bandwidth during download typically. I doubt Sony will be able to do much better out the gate. Having said that I have yet to download any PSN Games.
> 
> Top that with a few cable/internet companies capping peoples internet and it seems highly unlikely IMO. They'd be alienating capped customers and people with sub par/no internet access.



All good points and fair, however, they don't necessarily apply to the rest of the world. The US has some of the worst internet speeds of any of the 1st world countries (and worse than many 3rd world countries). Granted, the US makes up a significant portion of Sony's market, but I don't know if they would change a design element to fit our market.

Also, it's quite possible that our market will have changed significantly by the time these release.


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## flint757

I wish they'd lay down wire that was far too big ATM to avoid the sub par access. By the time people move up to higher bandwidths it will be the 'new slow'. 

Not surprised we have some of the worst. I don't know how much can change within this year however.


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## Grand Moff Tim

Don Vito said:


> Is that the one with the dragon statue? I guess they could send stuff like that in the mail.


 
Yeah, it's the one with the statue. How it worked out was I reserved a copy of the PC collector's edition at GameStop just like people reserved theirs for console. On release day, I went to the store to pick it up, and it was all packaged exactly like the collector's edition for the consoles. The only difference was that instead of including a disc with all the game content on it, it included as disc with a lonk/code to DL it on Steam.


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## axxessdenied

I wish my home internet was as fast as my smartphone's internet


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## soliloquy

spattergrind said:


> I'm stoked for it, but please keep the same controller!
> It's like the perfect controller IMO. Don't change it.
> 
> So glad they didn't go with the banana controller for the ps3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the backwards compatibility too. If they do, hopefully they will even extend it to PS2 compatible games as well.



if they use that controller...my gf might think i got that for it....

am i the only one that thinks that looks like a vibrator......



moving on...:
the games i'm looking forward to:






i'm still disappointed that the PS3 was a bit of a sleeper console. it didn't really have anything that blew my mind (in comparison to the PS2 and its legacy)



but YES to it being backward compatible! even if its just the PS3 and PS4 games that it can play. it would be cool to see it having a downloadable content from the PS2 and PS1 though. 

continue with bluray too!


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## MFB

flint757 said:


> Not so great IMO. Disks are far more convenient. I do download all games for PC, but it takes like a week or so to get my whole catalog and in the meantime the internet is at a snails pace. My internet is rather average as well. If I (and the rest of the world) were running on fiber then downloads would totally be the way to go. Currently you can already download games and I suspect they still sell more hard copies especially when they charge you the exact same price 9/10



Exactly.

I'm living at college dorms right now and given we can't have wireless routers, we use ethernet cables for everything and it's painfully slow. I downloaded a patch for Battlefield 3 (250MB) and it took AN HOUR AND A HALF. What am I supposed to do for the 2GB update that I also need to install or if I want DLC? Set it and forget it and hope that all goes well? Fuck that. 

That's the biggest issue I have with the removal of disks would be my current situation doesn't allow for quick downloads, so instead of walking into a store and buying it then immediately playing, I'd be stuck waiting. And waiting. And waiting. _And waiting_.

Edit: Also, that Kotaku PS4 does NOT appeal to me in the least; I much prefer the one that looked like a Samsung blu-ray player/Mac-Mini


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## flint757

It'd be kind of cool if local video game stores had stuff like that on file and for a small fee you could go there and download the install files to a USB or something. That'd be one way around it I suppose. Then again I don't think they'd like the idea of people having access to their game files.


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## TheDivineWing22

According to IGN there are rumors about the PS4 being released at about $400. 

Japanese Newspaper Claims PlayStation 4 Will Cost About $400 - IGN


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## MFB

Didn't the PS3 release at like $500, if not at least $400 so it wouldn't be anything new. Depending upon what it comes with spec wise and if the titles are worth it then maybe I'd shell out the cash.


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## Don Vito

MFB said:


> Didn't the PS3 release at like $500.


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## axxessdenied

MFB said:


> Didn't the PS3 release at like $500, if not at least $400 so it wouldn't be anything new. Depending upon what it comes with spec wise and if the titles are worth it then maybe I'd shell out the cash.



$599 originally 


Also, if the Playstation 4 is similar in quality to a PS3 slim. I won't be buying one. Ever.


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## 7stringDemon

It's coming out this month?

Geez, I still remember waiting in line for my PS*3*.


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## soliloquy

MFB said:


> Didn't the PS3 release at like $500, if not at least $400 so it wouldn't be anything new. Depending upon what it comes with spec wise and if the titles are worth it then maybe I'd shell out the cash.



depending on the models you buy. some were up to about 700, or 800 as well....





7stringDemon said:


> It's coming out this month?
> 
> Geez, I still remember waiting in line for my PS*3*.



no. it will be announced. they will talk abut the specs, maybe some of the games that are lined up for it, and maybe an estimated released date. but most likely it would be some time in 2014. no point announcing it if its in 2015 though.


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## Mexi

"insiders" are saying that it will be announced on the 20th and we may see a release as early as fall 2013
side note
Rumor: PS4 to push 'new playing options' over high-powered hardware | Joystiq
ironically, Sony's shares have fallen 10% as well
Sony shares drop by 10 percent | Joystiq
I suppose when your credit rating it labeled "junk", it's hard to keep your investors happy


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## flint757

Would kind of make the Vita useless wouldn't it? And here again we have another brand specific requirement as well. I shouldn't have to have a Sony phone when Sony isn't running any special OS on top of them in the first place.

I'm curious if them putting the focus on social media, probably Sony Move, and the nerve center means they aren't going to put the latest and greatest graphic card in. I liked the fact that Vita and Sony Move were after thoughts because it meant the PS3 was a whole product from the beginning.


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## groverj3

I doubt they'll bother keeping backwards compatability. It isn't like your PS3 will stop working when you get a PS4.

Plus, they would need to have a whole team of people work on hardware emulation that could be doing more important things. This is assuming they don't include the cell processor, which I'm assuming they won't. While powerful, it is a bitch to optimize for.


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## axxessdenied

groverj3 said:


> I doubt they'll bother keeping backwards compatability. It isn't like your PS3 will stop working when you get a PS4.


Tell that to all the PS3s that have died on me.


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## flint757

axxessdenied said:


> Tell that to all the PS3s that have died on me.



While I agree with your sentiments you must be really unlucky.  Mine never goes off (Netflix) and hasn't skipped a beat. 

Roommates was fine as well except when it got too hot (inside a cabinet), but it shut itself down to protect the hardware.


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## axxessdenied

flint757 said:


> While I agree with your sentiments you must be really unlucky.  Mine never goes off (Netflix) and hasn't skipped a beat.
> 
> Roommates was fine as well except when it got too hot (inside a cabinet), but it shut itself down to protect the hardware.



I'm actually more angry at how shitty the ps3 slim is compared to our original 60 and 80gb models


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## flint757

Yeah, so I'm told. Kind of odd that they stripped some features on the updated version. I've got the 300GB version slim I believe. Having not seen the original and knowing how chinsy the PS2 was I didn't expect much. Seems solid enough though from where I stand. I've been fortunate it seems.  

I assume they justified the differences because of the price drop even though the price drop was for their benefit more than ours (most people wouldn't pay that much and they need sales).


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## RedSkull

If the PS3 can still pull out impressive exclusives graphic wise right now with 256 mb system and 256 mb for video, we're in for a huge threat with the new system:

500 mb to system and *3.5 GB for video *(GDDR5 memory that is)


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## yellow

I am a huge sony fan. I converted to Sonyism after being born into the Nintendo tradition from my older family members at the advent of the psx, and just to put it in perspective, I am a child of video games golden era, "the third generation," particularly for consoles.

i wasn't even sperm in the sac when video games and consoles were basically sperm in the sac for the video game world meaning i was conceived when NINTENDO (classic/original) came out and began the revolution of the console (and that's my interpretation, everything up to Nintendo was prototypes because i also had calico vision and Atari), i was born into the first real console and tried it first as a wee baby, toddler w/e, ill have to guess at the ages but...

i was therefore around 6- 7 for super Nintendo/ genesis, 10 for ps1, 12 for n64, 14 for dreamcast (which IMO was the must underrated console and most ambitious and break through cutting edge console ever in terms of how far it pushed the envelope, its truly the marker for what next gen would become), 16 for ps2, and then dropped games altogether and turned to guitar at that time, so i was on about a ten year hiatus...

until i saw what the ps3 could do and i got when i was 26 (internet, wifi, Netflix, bluray, backwards compatibiles, other os, etc..."everything") and i got one as a gift. 

---------------

anyway, the main players are Nintendo, sony, and sega (and now Microsoft), but traditionally speaking, its those 3 that are only worthy of mention console wise, and im not an xbox hater, even tho i don't like Microsoft, its just xbox does nothing special and its inferior hardware wise to the ps3 so it doesn't really deserve special recognition for anything other than doing what the ps3 does with less features (and not have as good proprietary exclusives).

out of those main players, Nintendo was the best for a long run. when playstation came out, it really gave Nintendo and sega a run for their money, Nintendo answered back very strongly with the n64, but then totally lost power after, and Sega also made a very ambitious attempt and could have won the entire console battle with the dreamcast if their marketing and timing were better cuz it was as good as ps2 and xbox when and it debuted 2 years before they even had released, let alone establishing good titles, so i acknowledge at certain times, Nintendo was best and sega was best. but it was sony that became my favorite child over Nintendo and sega even back then when it debuted, so to me sony will always be #1

i think Nintendo has gone into its own arena and venue and it respect it for what it is, but its not my style of gaming, and Microsoft is not worthy of mention because gates does what he always did, just took what someone else built, repackaged it and sold it as his, so they've done nothing for console development in my eyes except create a competitive market and are really just an expression of capitalism in the video game world, which is fine and natural i suppose. but that's neither here nor there

--------------------------

the point: with all that said, and the fact that i am a huge sony fan and i love the ps3 and think its the most versatile piece of entertainment electronics i own, i think at this point and at this age, 28, its time for two things to happen - 1. time to give up consoles, because (a) im too old lol and (b) pc gaming offers more options, affordability, and better quality and 2. the use and value of consoles no longer justifies their release/debut price.

i got a ps3 in 2010, 3 years ago almost exactly, and that means it was 4 years after its release so in industry terms (well my generations terms) it was practically almost dead when i got it, but i got it for everything else it did besides gaming. so i paid half of debut, and that was worth it cuz it only dropped $100 just recently, and that 3 years later.

but now to pay $600+ for a ps4? "NO WAY PUNK." (rep points to the first person who spots that reference). doesn't make sense, for that much i can buy a PC that's more powerful and customized to my specs, and i already own an asus vg278h which is the best 3d monitor on the market period, so unless consoles either offer some crazy new novelty OR are debuting at the $300- level, then it would literally be wasting money not to be investing in a high end PC instead

--------------------------------

so, i think the console is becoming obsolete. people are getting tech savvy and operating systems are becoming so simple to use yet so hard to mess up now (remember what you could do to your pc if you screwed up with buffer rate or accidentally tampered with command line execution code to adjust game settings?) because of limitations on end user control and manipulation. the ps3 showed us with other os++ what consoles COULD have been, which is a computer hidden inside of a console interface, but they stopped that unfortunately.

bottom line: id get a ps4 if it offered new technology (like lets say whatever the new format visual media will come in, like whatever the next blu ray player will be) at a competitive price point of $300, however, if its over $400 and all it does is what the ps3 did just with better graphics, then ill pass totally.

well, that was fun, doing a timeline of my video game history 

see ya round the network


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## MFB

I'm going to keep this as short as possible since the last PS4 thread ALSO turned into a PC vs. console debate and I'll be demanded if I help it, but as for consoles and their launch price; you HAVE to release that these are an investment. They don't last a year and then call it a day. 

The Wii came out in what, 2006, and were obtainable by mortals by 2007? Now 2012 just finished up and the Wii-U came out so it had AT LEAST a 5-year run on a starting cost of $200 give or take - $40 a year, that's less than a _dollar a day_. And the PS3 and the Xbox 360 game out before those for a higher cost (and ended up having far better titles depending upon who you are [shock, awe]) but their run still hasn't finished! This will probably their last full year since the PS4/"720" will be unveiled and shooting for a Q4 release but it might not happen since hiccups can occur in production. So that's what, at least a 6-7 year lifespan? I remember having a white Xbox 360 that RRoD when the first Assassin's Creed came out and I believe that was 2005, so 2005-2013 is 8 years for the same console; I'd say that's impressive especially compared to something like the phone market where after a year and a half people just change for the sake of change and "because they can."


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## yellow

didn't know there was another ps4 thread or that there was a ps4 vs pc thread, I just saw this at the top of the heap. so don't mean to repeat a pattern, but the op video didn't have any content so I thought it was open to general discussion.

I agree, consoles definitely have come a long way and the shelf life of the ps3 is quite amazing, long long run.

(for the record, I don't pc game and I don't own a gaming pc or laptop, I have an Compaq Presario cq61 lol)


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## flint757

I'm only going to say one thing on the subject, but I find it amusing people seem to believe pc's don't have the exact same shelf life. Just because you can update a pc doesn't mean you have too. 

You can adjust the settings in game for pretty much anything. Given that, a top of the line setup from say 5-6 year's ago could easily still play the latest and greatest. Consoles are certainly not graphically top of the line so it isn't like that would be of any concern. That and an update means more than just better games. 

There I'm done.  Just needed to clear up that misconception. And anything can be made out to be affordable if you break it down daily. If you had problems with your ps3 like a couple people on here had mentioned it becomes significantly less 'affordable' as well.


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## axxessdenied

The shelf-life has nothing to do with hardware. When it comes down to it, these consoles cost developers are SHITLOAD of money in R&D. The time it takes to break even on hardware sales alone takes quite a long time because of these high production costs. Add to the fact that developers are OVERSPENDING these days developing games, the prices need to remain high in order to make it profitable. 

Luckily, times are changing and the tools necessary to develop high quality products are becoming more and more readily available to more people. The indie scene is pretty amazing!
Companies like CD Projekt Red also give us gamers a lot of hope. Free DLC is awesome 

Let's face it. The console vs PC debate is pretty viable to talk about these days. The similarities between consoles and PC are too common to ignore and not compare.


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## yellow

I belive whats more important than anything is:

SONY DEVELOPING AND WRITING IN NATIVE CODE, aka no plug n play dropped porting. 

and I don't mean exclusives, even tho I think ps exclusives are the best games hands down (infamous, uncharted, twisted metal, gow, mgs, etc...), I mean the games can be cross platform, but they shouldn't be just ported over, they should be coded natively from the ground up for the sony architecture.


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## MFB

^ To be fair though, I've found the games on the PS3 to be better looking than most on the Xbox. God of War 3's in-game (not even pre-rendered stuff) was amazing as was the Uncharted series, and look at the MGS series. Snake's stealth suit changed colors and adapted to whatever you were positioned on, I can only imagine how long it took to right code for that and have it look _that good_. The trailer for "Phantom Pains" - hell the screenshot for it - looks ridiculous in terms of texturing and whatnot. 

Don't get me wrong, Halo 4 is gorgeous, but that was just recently released where the games I dropped for the PS3 were a few years ago.


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## Don Vito

Oh man I totally remember watching the E3 footage for MGS4 circa 05-06? That was such a well crafted game on all fronts.


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## yellow

oh yeah man there is no doubt the ps3 was far beyond its competition. the exclusives prove it totally. however, most developers favor coding in MS platform for some reason, and man, the ps3 had so much untapped potential graphically, it was leanin towards a lil wasteful I think. games like uncharted blow everything else on console outta the water man, and also MGS as well, so u see what native code can produce. its kinda like amd and intel. amd is superior on paper (and technically it is), but most things are programmed natively for intel architecture so an inferior product is equipped with superior advantage. not to get back into pcs, again, cuz like I said im not a pc gamer of any kinda whatsoever, I only play ps3.


----------



## flint757

Programmers don't like Sony platform because it is unnecessarily difficult to program for supposedly. Not a programmer so I personally have no idea.


----------



## yellow

that's indeed correct, however no reason for sony not to pick up the slack and have some of their people pick up "whats too hard" for the developing programmers to wrap up


----------



## thatguy87

A Few Things. 

While I am excited to see a new era of gaming come to pass, I want to point out that Xbox Live has always had a better UI and is more convenient (making a party in XBL is SO MUCH EASIER than doing so on PSN by leaps and fucking bounds.)

If you would like to continue to play PS3 games, keep your PS3&#8230; pretty simple.

AMD chips are not and never will be nearly as good at ANY price point as Intel chips.

As for exclusives, Xbox has Gears of War, Halo (which I actually HATE), Forza, a few RPGs (including Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia; incredibly important to me).

Finally, I personally find the Xbox controller to be the MOST comfortable controller I have ever used, which is why I always buy games on Xbox when possible. 

All this having been said, what I would like to see from Sony is for them to continue their innovative games like Heavy Rain. The PS3 have several games coming out soon that I am excited to play. Ni No Kuni was started recently and it&#8217;s looking fantastic. Until Dawn, Remember Me, The Last of Us, Beyond Two Souls, and The Last Guardian all look promising.


----------



## axxessdenied

thatguy87 said:


> A Few Things.
> 
> While I am excited to see a new era of gaming come to pass, I want to point out that Xbox Live has always had a better UI and is more convenient (making a party in XBL is SO MUCH EASIER than doing so on PSN by leaps and fucking bounds.)
> 
> If you would like to continue to play PS3 games, keep your PS3 pretty simple.
> 
> AMD chips are not and never will be nearly as good at ANY price point as Intel chips.
> 
> As for exclusives, Xbox has Gears of War, Halo (which I actually HATE), Forza, a few RPGs (including Lost Odyssey and Tales of Vesperia; incredibly important to me).
> 
> Finally, I personally find the Xbox controller to be the MOST comfortable controller I have ever used, which is why I always buy games on Xbox when possible.
> 
> All this having been said, what I would like to see from Sony is for them to continue their innovative games like Heavy Rain. The PS3 have several games coming out soon that I am excited to play. Ni No Kuni was started recently and its looking fantastic. Until Dawn, Remember Me, The Last of Us, Beyond Two Souls, and The Last Guardian all look promising.



A lot of my buddies that like to play fighting games pretty much ALL prefer to play on the xbox 360. Better load times, more consistent fps.


----------



## StevenC

I'll end up getting a PS4 for the exclusive Tales games and if there are any exclusive Metal Gear games. Given Xilla won't be out until this year, I don't imagine we'll see Xilla 2 for a few years over here, so right away, that'll be PS4.


----------



## MFB

I mainly go for titles on Xbox because of Live and the amount of friends that also use them. But for exclusives I'd say PS3 has the edge single-player wise, but there online is just eh for some of the games I've played like Killzone. No one uses a headset or communicates so it was usually just me doing my shit alone. Whereas I can jump on any random game on Call of Duty and run into a dozen of my team-mates using mics.


----------



## yellow

AMD is, was, and always be better, from power to ability...and cheaper.


----------



## Choop

yellow said:


> AMD is, was, and always be better, from power to ability...and cheaper.



Not really!  However their chips are pretty darn capable given the price point.

I like all this new console chatter...been a pc gamer primarily for about 7 years, and after getting into fighting games more and just general platform/adventure stuff I may be ready to settle down on a console. BRING EM AWN.


----------



## thatguy87

> Intel is, was, and always be better, from power to ability.



FTFY, no need to thank me.

Best CPU: the 8 top processors today: Processor Reviews | News | TechRadar

Intel vs AMD: which processor is best? | News | TechRadar

AMD has always struggled trying to be better and has always fallen on its face. But since this isn't a CPU thread, I will not post any more about it.


----------



## flint757

He might have been referring to AMD vs. Nvidia. 

In that arena they are more closely matched than the CPU market. AMD is still not top dog there either though. As soon as they release a 'game changer' Nvidia releases something just a little bit better, albeit at like double the price.


----------



## Choop

flint757 said:


> He might have been referring to AMD vs. Nvidia.
> 
> In that arena they are more closely matched than the CPU market. AMD is still not top dog there either though. As soon as they release a 'game changer' Nvidia releases something just a little bit better, albeit at like double the price.



Nah he was replying to the other guy for mentioning AMD being inferior to Intel, or whatever.

True that about the video cards though. There are exceptions, but generally AMD has real good bang for buck video cards. I have a 7950 right now and no complaints ! Not that I hate nvidia, before this I had gtx 470 sli and it was pretty great as far as pure performance.


----------



## axxessdenied

yellow said:


> AMD is, was, and always be better, from power to ability...and cheaper.



Nope. I would never opt for an AMD chip over Intel.


----------



## SpaseMoonkey

IMO I can careless about the chip as long as the programmer don't get lazy and go well we need more power for this and that.. BS! Program better. 

Ok with that out of the way, lets take a step back to 1991. Look at SNES games when they came out, they were wow'ing us with Super Mario World, Zelda, and such. Now move to 1994 when they pushed out titles like Donkey Kong Country and Killer Instinct. Same exact system was used, but it's night and day. 

I feel that way with current gen systems. I can look at the COD series and see how much better it has gotten but I feel MW3, Blops, Blops2 all look about the same. I think that is a span of 3 years. Now look at something like Uncharted span of 4 years but it really came a long way since the start.

I wish they would take more time to understand the system and utilize what it has to offer, so that we can always get more quality games instead of quantity .

Someone made a remark about xbox controller. I sort of agree it is a better controller as well, I like how the sticks are placed rather than the dualshock. Just seems to close to me from the controller edge to the sticks.

But! I will more than likely own the PS4 when it comes out. If the new Xbox comes out and doesn't do with what the rumors say, download only, active internet required, kinnect required, I will more than likely have one of them as well. I don't really hate on systems each has its spot for me.


----------



## yellow

I think NVidia 3dvision 2 is perhaps the most important thing to consider for those interested in 3d gpu....its the best in the world


----------



## Stealth7




----------



## ghostred7

If the "can't play used games" rumors are true, then to hell with the PS4.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

ghostred7 said:


> If the "can't play used games" rumors are true, then to hell with the PS4.


 
If Sony finds a way to implement it, Microsoft probably will, too. I _might_ have already heard that that's how the next Xbox will be too, but I can't put my finger on when and where I heard it, so take that with a grain of salt.

That said, though, used games aren't really available for most modern PC games, either, but that doesn't seem to be much of a deterrence. When games go on sale on Steam, they can usually be had for less than used games at game stores, anyways. You can't sell games back, though...

Hmph. Push and pull.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

The whole "no used games" thing doesn't make much of a difference. My OCD when it comes to the condition of me game cases doesn't allow me to buy used games. But, I can definitely see why most people would be upset about it.

I guess one way to look at it is if true, maybe publishers will have more money to make better games. Or just release the same COD 5 times and pocket the profits.


----------



## soliloquy

it would be cool if multiple people could log into the same ps station all at once and their data could be carried over. 

example, i can log into ss.org from my computer, my phone, my gfs computer, work, school etc...and they all give me the same experience. all my info is there. so using that would be quiet useful. moreso if used games cant be played on the ps4. such as, if i have a game, and my friend doesn't, i can log onto his ps4, and we both can play it via dual player or something. 


and if the 'no-used-games-allowed' stuff is true...then bye bye any of the gaming stores around. for me, that was the only factor to go to them, as they had decent selection of used games, at times, cheaper than online prices. now, we can pre-order and get whatever game we want from online, making game stores pretty much obsolete....sad kind of...


----------



## Mexi

PS4 has x86 CPU, 8GB onboard memory, local hard drive | Joystiq
PS4's DualShock 4 controller has built-in touch pad, motion control capability [update: share button explained] | Joystiq
PS4 allows playing games as they're downloading | Joystiq
PlayStation 4's dedicated video hardware will allow seamless video uploading, streaming, sharing | Joystiq

still streaming live


----------



## Mexi

also demo time

Watch the Killzone: Shadow Fall announcement demo right here | Joystiq


----------



## flint757

I don't like the idea of pre-downloads and that hardware description is exceptionally vague. Seems too 'now' for something intended to stay on the market for 5 years or so.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

flint757 said:


> that hardware description is exceptionally vague. Seems too 'now' for something intended to stay on the market for 5 years or so.



Couldn't the same have been said of the PS3 and the 360 when they hit the market?

EDIT: By PC standards, at any rate.


----------



## Sicarius

Well, I'm excited and disappointed at the same time.

Not sure how the Ergos are gonna be with the touch pad, but I'll be looking for an option to turn the feature off if possible.

Though, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one to see how it feels.

DriveClub looks like a weird version of Burnout Paradise and GT5..

Looking forward to Infamous, Killzone, Watchdogs, and I may even try and play Diablo 3.


----------



## flint757

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Couldn't the same have been said of the PS3 and the 360 when they hit the market?
> 
> EDIT: By PC standards, at any rate.



Hence my lack of overall excitement. I get it at the same time. It is much safer for them to release something already tested by the marketplace than to risk serious problems/failures down the road when these will be mass produced.



Sicarius said:


> Well, I'm excited and disappointed at the same time.
> 
> Not sure how the Ergos are gonna be with the touch pad, but I'll be looking for an option to turn the feature off if possible.
> 
> Though, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one to see how it feels.
> 
> DriveClub looks like a weird version of Burnout Paradise and GT5..
> 
> Looking forward to Infamous, Killzone, Watchdogs, and I may even try and play Diablo 3.



It could be interesting. We'll have to wait and see. They'd have to change the entire design of the controller or the screen would be really tiny though. I have a feeling some of the Vita tech will end up in the PS4.


----------



## Mexi

Watch Dogs focuses in on PS4 | Joystiq

I like


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Sicarius said:


> Not sure how the Ergos are gonna be with the touch pad, but I'll be looking for an option to turn the feature off if possible.



The ergos on the new controller in the leaked photographs look pretty much the same as previous Dualshocks, the only difference being the area in the middle of the controller is flat. I imagine the controller will feel fine in the hands, but I can see how it'd be impractical to have to use the touchpad in the middle on the fly, for those of us who don't have extend-o-thumbs . As long as they can keep touchpad feature integration to a minimum in most games, it shouldn't be a problem. I just don't want any "Swipe Touchpad for Melee!!!" nonsense .


----------



## Sicarius

I can really see and understand, and liked it in Dynasty Warriors Next on the Vita, it was a cool feature.

But I'm not sure how it's gonna work in this case.

Slightly afraid to see the prices on the SKUs..

Also, did anyone else catch the, "While not every PS3 game will be supported by the PS4..." bit?


----------



## Aevolve

Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed with how it's turning out so far. I think the touchpad's use can't extend far past a gimmick in most gaming applications, and the extra hardware will only make the controllers that much more expensive. As far as a lack of backwards-compatibility.. well, I just thought they would've learned by now.


----------



## GatherTheArsenal

spattergrind said:


> So glad they didn't go with the banana controller for the ps3.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with the backwards compatibility too. If they do, hopefully they will even extend it to PS2 compatible games as well.



Yeah me too, i can't be the only one who took 1 look at that and thought it looks like an intergalactic alien dildo. Not that i've ever seen an alien dildo, i'm just sayin' 


On the topic of backwards compatibility - if I were to design a next gen console, wouldn't it make sense to have full backwards compatibility across previous consoles?? 

The major pros of that:
- added consumer benefit to the price tag ($800 for a ps3 during launch week? Hope ps4 isn't like that)
- consumers feel like they're losing less when purchasing a new console
- maintain the current customer base until they are ready (have enough $$$) to buy a ps4
- competitive advantage 

I guess worst comes to worst the ps3 will turn into downloadable classics on the newly designed PlayStation World, just like the PS and PS2, can't be that bad.

I also have some big questions that I'm dying to know the answers to:

1) If the ps4 is going to be disc-less then what happens to the resale value of games, we can't resell games on Craigslist soooooo are games going to cost less if the resell value is practically erased?

2) In the same vein what happens to game stores Iike EB Games here in Canada? Either they revisit their business model or they're kinda fucked...

3) Will people still be able to pirate games? I don't personally do that because i prefer physical copies of the original, but I'm curious to know if the new design on the ps4 would eliminate that revenue gap in their sales??

EDIT - I'm really digging' all the MGS love I'm seeing in this thread  I just got the new one today I can't wait to play it! Definitely would be partial to buying a ps4 in launch week if a new MGS will be released!!


----------



## flint757

It definitely makes little sense to me why backwards compatibility isn't possible. Consoles are simplified computers and computers have only minimum requirements for games with the exception of some games released a LONG time ago (in other words most games work even after a hardware upgrade). It seems the lack of backwards compatibility is entirely a cost cutting move and a strong arm attempt at forcing consumers to buy PS4 games instead of PS3 games (which will be cheaper after the PS4 release). 

Not a huge deal since PS3 is still a good product, but it'd be nice for my setup to not be overly cluttered either. I imagine I'm not the only one who probably thinks so either. Not that it matters, even those complaining will still buy it giving the consumer zero leverage to get the product they actually want.


----------



## Sicarius

what the dude from GaiKai was saying is that they hope to one day bring all the past, present, and future PS games to the PS4. So, PS1-3. 

There isn't 100% BC with the XBX and 360, nor with the Wii U and GC games ( I think there's 0% in this instance). 

But if they're going to do it digitally, that'd be cool. Also, I don't think the console is going to be disc-less. Sony fought too hard to win with Blu-Ray, that they'd suddenly drop it from their flagship entertainment device.

What I do 100% with out a doubt think will not happen, is the next Xbox getting Blu-Ray. Microsoft wouldn't do that because they'd be forced to pay licensing fees to Sony, so even if they do beat the PS4 in sales, Sony would get a profit off every X-Box. 

I'm looking forward to the Holiday season and hope that there's a special edition bundle that has a special color and a good launch game (not that I'd buy one that early, I'd get one Q1 2014, though.)


----------



## flint757

They might have to bite that bullet though as it is a selling point for Sony. One less electronic in the house. My PS3 runs smooth for movies and apps while every blu ray player has some sort of glitch or problem (all 3 of them actually). While it is a competition and making more money is the goal, making sure the competitor gets nothing isn't exactly the end goal either. I think they all realize that they will have to coexist. IMO if they don't add blu ray support they'd be shooting themselves in the foot (money aside). I imagine they are paying Sony already anyhow since Sony, Toshiba, Philips and Panasonic invented the DVD from what I gather.


----------



## Rook

GatherTheArsenal said:


> Yeah me too, i can't be the only one who took 1 look at that and thought it looks like an intergalactic alien dildo. Not that i've ever seen an alien dildo, i'm just sayin'
> 
> 
> On the topic of backwards compatibility - if I were to design a next gen console, wouldn't it make sense to have full backwards compatibility across previous consoles??
> 
> The major pros of that:
> - added consumer benefit to the price tag ($800 for a ps3 during launch week? Hope ps4 isn't like that)
> - consumers feel like they're losing less when purchasing a new console
> - maintain the current customer base until they are ready (have enough $$$) to buy a ps4
> - competitive advantage
> 
> I guess worst comes to worst the ps3 will turn into downloadable classics on the newly designed PlayStation World, just like the PS and PS2, can't be that bad.
> 
> I also have some big questions that I'm dying to know the answers to:
> 
> 1) If the ps4 is going to be disc-less then what happens to the resale value of games, we can't resell games on Craigslist soooooo are games going to cost less if the resell value is practically erased?
> 
> 2) In the same vein what happens to game stores Iike EB Games here in Canada? Either they revisit their business model or they're kinda fucked...
> 
> 3) Will people still be able to pirate games? I don't personally do that because i prefer physical copies of the original, but I'm curious to know if the new design on the ps4 would eliminate that revenue gap in their sales??
> 
> EDIT - I'm really digging' all the MGS love I'm seeing in this thread  I just got the new one today I can't wait to play it! Definitely would be partial to buying a ps4 in launch week if a new MGS will be released!!



Why do you think any retail price would ever be governed by resale? 

Backwards compatibility is a bummer, discless hasn't been confirmed or denied (or even mentioned). I'm a pretty cloud oriented/live person, I use iCloud and iTunes almost exclusively these days, discless playstation wouldn't bother me really.


----------



## groverj3

Hardware-driven backwards compatability is a complete waste of development time.

Not sure why this is such a big deal for some. Just use your PS1-3 for PS1-3 games.

Of course, since JRPGs have been mostly dead since the PS2 I'll probably pass on the PS4. M$ has a stranglehold on my wallet these days...


----------



## Murmel

groverj3 said:


> Hardware-driven backwards compatability is a complete waste of development time.
> 
> Not sure why this is such a big deal for some. Just use your PS1-3 for PS1-3 games.


Some people never even owned a PS3 or PS2, or a PS1 even, but they might still be interested in some older titles when they get their PS4. I know I would love backwards compatability.
It also takes up a lof of space/power outlets to have 2-3 different consoles (or more if you don't just have Playstation's). And for many that's just completely unecessary.


----------



## blanco

Backwards compatibility is a massive convenience. I'm personally more likely to sell my old console and buy more games with the money for the new console if it's backward compatible. Also has sony or Microsoft commented on the whole not being able to use preowned games on the new consoles?


----------



## HighGain510

GatherTheArsenal said:


> I also have some big questions that I'm dying to know the answers to:
> 
> 1) If the ps4 is going to be disc-less then what happens to the resale value of games, we can't resell games on Craigslist soooooo are games going to cost less if the resell value is practically erased?
> 
> 2) In the same vein what happens to game stores Iike EB Games here in Canada? Either they revisit their business model or they're kinda fucked...
> 
> 3) Will people still be able to pirate games? I don't personally do that because i prefer physical copies of the original, but I'm curious to know if the new design on the ps4 would eliminate that revenue gap in their sales??



1) The console is coming with both a blu-ray drive and the ability to download the games from the store and I believe they did say they weren't going to lock things down to disc-less and required internet connection to play games, so that's likely a moot point. That being said, the used game market has NEVER been the priority/concern of the folks producing the console so no, the odds of the retail price of games decreasing almost definitely falls into the "slim-to-none" category. They've got people paying $60 for new games, why change that? People are STILL going to buy them regardless of how much they bitch about it, and after asking a ton of my gaming friends it seems like 85%+ of them all buy their games new still.  Resale value on used games is not their concern as that doesn't bring in any new game revenue to them, only the console purchase affects them so they might lose a customer there but if they REALLY want to play the new stuff, they'll eventually break down and buy a console and new games should that become the requirement. 

2) There are online retailers that can still sell games to folks and I'm sure if that was a concern for Sony, they would worry about it. As long as they're still able to sell their games, I'm sure they don't give two shits about EB Games/Gamestop/etc.  I don't know the numbers but I'm sure if they went strictly to only selling via e-tailers, they would likely pick up the folks who were previously buying new in stores, and as stated before they don't really care about the "used" market as those gamers aren't sending them any money directly so that's not a "new" sale they're losing. 

3) No clue there but I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the folks who want to pirate figure out how to do so. It happens with just about everything unfortunately.  Enough smart people with the will to achieve their goal and it will likely happen unless Sony opts to go for the license-check option and require online connection to them to play the games, but it sounds like at least out of the gate they're not going that route.


----------



## groverj3

Murmel said:


> Some people never even owned a PS3 or PS2, or a PS1 even, but they might still be interested in some older titles when they get their PS4. I know I would love backwards compatability.
> It also takes up a lof of space/power outlets to have 2-3 different consoles (or more if you don't just have Playstation's). And for many that's just completely unecessary.


 


blanco said:


> Backwards compatibility is a massive convenience. I'm personally more likely to sell my old console and buy more games with the money for the new console if it's backward compatible. Also has sony or Microsoft commented on the whole not being able to use preowned games on the new consoles?


 
People that are working on backwards compatability aren't working on new stuff. Seeing as these companies have only a certain number of people to devote to console development, it just doesn't seem like a worthwhile way to use their manpower.

That being said, I agree that it is convenient. However, since console games have so many hardware-related tweaks to optimize them backwards compatability can be quite difficult. You could go the route Sony did with the early PS3s and include actual hardware from the previous console, but this increases manufacturing costs. Another way to do it is software emulation (Wii virtual console, XBOX games that work on the 360, every console emulator on the PC, etc.). However, there have to be lots of game-specific hacks/tweaks which almost requires people to work on this full time. Also, it almost guarantees that some games will never work correctly anyway.

We'll just have to see what happens.


----------



## flint757

groverj3 said:


> Hardware-driven backwards compatability is a complete waste of development time.
> 
> Not sure why this is such a big deal for some. Just use your PS1-3 for PS1-3 games.





groverj3 said:


> People that are working on backwards compatability aren't working on new stuff. Seeing as these companies have on a certain number of people to devote to console development, it just doesn't seem like a worthwhile way to use their manpower.
> 
> That being said, I agree that it is convenient. However, since console games have so many hardware-related tweaks to optimize them backwards compatability can be quite difficult. You could go the route Sony did with the early PS3s and include actual hardware from the previous console, but this increases manufacturing costs. Another way to do it is software emulation (Wii virtual console, XBOX games that work on the 360, every console emulator on the PC, etc.). However, there have to be lots of game-specific hacks/tweaks which almost requires people to work on this full time. Also, it almost guarantees that some games will never work correctly anyway.
> 
> We'll just have to see what happens.



It's a pretty big deal, but not necessarily big enough that they give a shit. They also don't do backwards compatibility because they can't then charge you $10 on PSN to download a game you already own. 

What gives you the impression that it is sooo difficult. The PS3, specifically, had a lot more in common with a PC than the previous iterations and a lot more multi-platform games as well. It is a computer in a locked down box. In a PC game you can adjust the settings so it can be playable old or new. I'd say anything early 2000's to now is doable without emulation as long as they don't have bizarre install instructions. If the same developers are making those game variant I see no logical reason why it would be 'hard' to do.

They do optimize the games to the hardware, but the hardware in each new console is generally just faster and has more pipelines and memory. That would imply to me that it wouldn't be that difficult to do. Even if that is a reason I'd be willing to bet money is the main reason. People wouldn't bother buying reissues, PSN downloadables and the like if they can just play their original.

As for the keep them all logic, my PS2 doesn't even work anymore and takes FOREVER to load when it does work. Computer hardware doesn't last forever so that is highly impractical for the long term. Not to mention the clutter and ridiculous amount of cables. Maybe you don't care or live with people who do care, but I'm here to tell you they exist.


----------



## Xaios

Something I think would be cool to revisit is the PSX concept. It was a PS2 built into an rudimentary entertainment center/receiver type deal. It didn't do very well back when it was released, but home theaters are quite a bit more common now than when the PS2 was released, it might be worth a shot, especially if they're aiming for the whole "lifestyle integration" angle.


----------



## mikernaut

funny recap-


----------



## flint757

@ Xios
They really should start building consoles as such. Integrates better in a living room, looks nice and is stackable.

Curved edges and '_futuristic_' shape may look cool, but are highly impractical.


----------



## Xaios

flint757 said:


> @ Xios
> They really should start building consoles as such. Integrates better in a living room, looks nice and is stackable.
> 
> Curved edges and '_futuristic_' shape may look cool, but are highly impractical.



Indeed. I also tend to prefer the aesthetics of home theater equipment over curvy consoles as well.


----------



## goherpsNderp

flint757 said:


> What gives you the impression that it is sooo difficult. The PS3, specifically, had a lot more in common with a PC than the previous iterations and a lot more multi-platform games as well. It is a computer in a locked down box. In a PC game you can adjust the settings so it can be playable old or new. I'd say anything early 2000's to now is doable without emulation as long as they don't have bizarre install instructions. If the same developers are making those game variant I see no logical reason why it would be 'hard' to do.



PS3 isn't anywhere being a PC. It's PowerPC, and PC's are x86. It's got a completely custom CPU made that doesn't function the way normal x86 CPU's do, and only processes specific instruction sets. It's got an extremely wide bus going to a fast (at least for the time) pool of XDR memory that was uncommon then, and even more uncommon now. It's also using a custom designed GPU that while similar to other graphics units at the time, is also specialized enough to where it can't simply process run in the mill instructions thrown at it. IE: you couldn't just install windows on a PS3 and it be able to run games, much less even boot.

This is what's called "the architecture", and PS3's was and still is so strange that it's simply impossible to get what the PS4 has in it to trick PS3 games into thinking it's got a CELL and RSX chip inside coupled with XDR and some GDDR3.

The (launch) PS3 actually had to include PS2 chips in it to even run PS2 games because even the CELL/RSX couldn't emulated the weird PS2 architecture, much less get the fancy XDR ram to operate as fast as PS2's ram. (which I believe was EDRAM) Even now, it takes powerful PC rigs to run PS2 emulation software and still achieve the graphical quality (as bad as it may look nowadays) the way it was on an actual PS2.

Thus the only way to get PS4 to natively play PS3 games is to either stuff the CELL/RSX/XDR into it, or to have the Gaikai streaming service run all the PS3 games on it's (CELL-equipped) servers and stream them to users.


----------



## groverj3

goherpsNderp said:


> PS3 isn't anywhere being a PC. It's PowerPC, and PC's are x86. It's got a completely custom CPU made that doesn't function the way normal x86 CPU's do, and only processes specific instruction sets. It's got an extremely wide bus going to a fast (at least for the time) pool of XDR memory that was uncommon then, and even more uncommon now. It's also using a custom designed GPU that while similar to other graphics units at the time, is also specialized enough to where it can't simply process run in the mill instructions thrown at it. IE: you couldn't just install windows on a PS3 and it be able to run games, much less even boot.
> 
> This is what's called "the architecture", and PS3's was and still is so strange that it's simply impossible to get what the PS4 has in it to trick PS3 games into thinking it's got a CELL and RSX chip inside coupled with XDR and some GDDR3.
> 
> The (launch) PS3 actually had to include PS2 chips in it to even run PS2 games because even the CELL/RSX couldn't emulated the weird PS2 architecture, much less get the fancy XDR ram to operate as fast as PS2's ram. (which I believe was EDRAM) Even now, it takes powerful PC rigs to run PS2 emulation software and still achieve the graphical quality (as bad as it may look nowadays) the way it was on an actual PS2.
> 
> Thus the only way to get PS4 to natively play PS3 games is to either stuff the CELL/RSX/XDR into it, or to have the Gaikai streaming service run all the PS3 games on it's (CELL-equipped) servers and stream them to users.


 
Exactly my point.

Don't get me wrong guys, I'd love to have backwards compatability. Due to the nature of the hardware, however, it's quite a bit more complicated than just "the new hardware is more powerful so it should run the old stuff."

The reason the PS3 doesn't have the greatest game library despite having theoretically superior hardware to the other consoles is that it is harder to develop for. It looks like Sony is moving away from this style of console production with the PS4 by making it more PC-like. This, however, is why gaming consoles aren't likely to last another generation. Consoles and PCs are both evolving towards the same destination it seems.


----------



## flint757

Well based on a prior post it looks like they are moving to more PC based architecture for the PS4 (albeit really uninformative release info). Smart move if that is accurate, given what you are saying.

It is interesting though, never took an interest in the hardware of consoles so had no clue. 


Games went up $10 with the PS3 so it'll be interesting to see if they continue the trend of ripping people off to pay for unnecessary hardware 'advances' that are apparently used strictly in these consoles and then never again (otherwise they wouldn't be considered all that peculiar).


----------



## Cancer

groverj3 said:


> It looks like Sony is moving away from this style of console production with the PS4 by making it more PC-like. This, however, is why gaming consoles aren't likely to last another generation. Consoles and PCs are both evolving towards the same destination it seems.



Actually, one could make the argument that the PS4 is not a console, but a specialized PC, and given that Xbox already runs on x86, this could be the first "console" cycle to not have consoles. The PS3 already had the ability to boot to another OS, if the PS4 can do the same, then what to stop Steam fro running on the unit (for instance). It's kinda genius if you think about, a great way to "kill the console", without "killing the console".


----------



## groverj3

Cancer said:


> Actually, one could make the argument that the PS4 is not a console, but a specialized PC, and given that Xbox already runs on x86, this could be the first "console" cycle to not have consoles. The PS3 already had the ability to boot to another OS, if the PS4 can do the same, then what to stop Steam fro running on the unit (for instance). It's kinda genius if you think about, a great way to "kill the console", without "killing the console".


 
In fact, Valve is doing just that by releasing a "steam-box" that will essentially compete with consoles but run steam games natively. Read something about this recently.

I think some very interesting things will be happening to gaming during this console generation as well as what follows it. I'm likely to buy either a PS4 or the M$ offering, but whether this generation will match the success of the current one remains to be seen.


----------



## goherpsNderp

Yeah a lot of games actually start development off on PC (x86) before they start adapting the engine and assets etc. to the console's architecture, so this takes a lot of that out of the equation. Games will at very least be able to get up and running a lot quicker than before.

I personally don't think game prices are going to go up. Last gen when it went from $50 to $60 was a historic event and if we've been getting PC games lately that are priced at $60 then there's really no reason for them to get bumped up another $10. Developers are already saying that the cost to make nextgen games isn't going to be dramatically higher, and that with PS4 and 720 being x86 it makes their entire development process a lot more efficient and easier to manager. "Develop smarter".


----------



## Mexi

games will likely be the same price, but it's the peripherals that will go up in cost. Especially considering PS3 controllers will *not* be functional with PS4s, they will probably not be cheap, given all that gimmicky touch screen stuff. we will have to wait and see

also, dragons


----------



## soliloquy

PlayStation 4 Not Backwards Compatible With Retail or Digital Games

PlayStation 4 Not Backwards Compatible With Retail or Digital Games - IGN




so for trophy whores such as me, all my hard work would be lost? thats bullshit! i dont care for those online games not being transferred. sure, its a cash grab for sony, but whatever. i care more for my ps3 trophies not going forward into ps4....


----------



## Rook

Since I already own a PS3 it's really of no consequence to me. It just means ill have blue ray/online tv players in 2 rooms instead of one.

I would be a minor convenience to have backwars comp, but it won't matter hugely to me.


----------



## HighGain510

soliloquy said:


> so for trophy whores such as me, all my hard work would be lost? thats bullshit! i dont care for those online games not being transferred. sure, its a cash grab for sony, but whatever. i care more for my ps3 trophies not going forward into ps4....




If the biggest problem with your day is that some virtual "trophies" are no longer showing up, I think you're having a pretty good day.  Stuff like that is of no consequence to the vast majority of gamers or else they would have really worried about making sure it ported to the PS4.  

Personally I'd rather see them focus on stuff like streamlining the running processes and minimizing loading time and it seems like that's what they decided to do, so I can't say I'm too upset with their decisions so far.  Some people get hung up over the silliest things these days!


----------



## Sicarius

Eh. I only have two games for PS3: FF13, and Dynasty Warriors 7. 

So long as it's still a Blu-Ray player, Idgaf about BC. I have a 60GB PS3 that I need to replace the drive in, so if it gets to be an actual problem, then I can just fix it, and have something that plays all the games.


----------



## FoxZero

So are they doing what Xbox 360 did with third party controllers? 

I use my PS3 solely for fighting games and it was easy to build an arcade stick out of a PS1 controller, but on the Xbox 360 it's more effort so I passed on that console. Since fighters are making a comeback on PC I might pass the next generation.


----------



## Choop

FoxZero said:


> So are they doing what Xbox 360 did with third party controllers?
> 
> I use my PS3 solely for fighting games and it was easy to build an arcade stick out of a PS1 controller, but on the Xbox 360 it's more effort so I passed on that console. Since fighters are making a comeback on PC I might pass the next generation.



Really hope this isn't the case either...I'm mostly attracted to the new consoles due to getting more into fighting games lately. I have a fightstick for 360 that I use on the PC, but I also was going to want to get one for ps3 possibly for my ps3 at my other home (that I'll probably eventually adopt). I'd hope that since it's a usb peripheral and fightsticks are unlikely to change, that a ps3 stick would be compatible. HOPE. -.-

It'd be nice if more fighters were released on PC. I play SF4:AE on pc but there aren't many others really, at least none that have a large community. It's fun to mess around on mugen though!


----------



## Chris_H87

Ok, so I just pre-ordered one. The wait begins!


----------



## Xaios

Hah, this is great.


----------



## yellow

well just saw the ps4 specs, and just like I said: AMD is the best, and better than intel contrary to your disagreement, otherwise it wouldn't be used.


----------



## Xaios

yellow said:


> well just saw the ps4 specs, and just like I said: AMD is the best and better than intel contrary to your disagreement



That is your opinion, but it's not shared by roughly 9/10 of general power users, including many, many experts on the matter.

For example, Tom's Hardware posts a "best gaming CPU for the money" which they update every month. AMD only managed to win out over Intel in the very cheapest bracket. Aside from that, it was Intel all the way.

Best Gaming CPUs For The Money: February 2013 : Best Gaming CPUs For The Money, February Updates



yellow said:


> otherwise it wouldn't be used.



There's a whole host of reasons why Sony might have picked AMD over Intel. Knowing that the PS4 isn't aiming for hardware superiority like they were with the PS3 means they may have picked something that was simply "good enough." AMD may have simply offered them a better price than Intel. That's generally the deciding factor.


----------



## Mexi

I think way too much emphasis is being put on the hardware itself. very few PC games look that good on 5-6 year old hardware. Also, the first generation of games barely scratch the surface of what the long term capability of the system (compare release titles like MGS4 to something like The Last of Us)
I think for mass production, these companies have needed to balance value with processing power, and I'm guessing in this case, AMD won out. And I'm pretty sure even before Feb. 20th, Sony insiders stressed that hardware won't be the focus of the console but how the features are utilized (cop out? maybe) but we'll have to wait and see.


----------



## flint757

yellow said:


> well just saw the ps4 specs, and just like I said: AMD is the best, and better than intel contrary to your disagreement, otherwise it wouldn't be used.



I drink Kroger milk and therefore it is the best. After all if it wasn't I wouldn't drink it. 

In mass production component price is a huge factor and Sony isn't exactly known for 'high quality' anyhow (or at least not IMO). If something is mass produced it is absolutely not going to have the 'best' parts in it, just the nature of the system. Cost over quality. Not that it really matters at all...


----------



## Pav

AMD was willing to hook Sony up more than Intel. Quality doesn't mean jack shit, it's about who was able to keep them supplied at what cost.


----------



## Robtheripper

Doesnt matter anyway. Nvidia will release the latest cards when the Ps4 hits and it still wont matter. Although Im interested in seeing microsoft's console compares when it get's released


----------



## yellow

that's what im taklin about: NVIDIA 3D VISION 2...all that matters to me


----------



## Ralyks

Maybe the PS4 is when they'll finally do the Final Fantasy VII remake...?

... Fuck it, it's never happening


----------



## SpaseMoonkey

Ralyks said:


> Maybe the PS4 is when they'll finally do the Final Fantasy VII remake...?
> 
> ... Fuck it, it's never happening



Square Enix CEO, Yoichi Wada, detailed the specific conditions needed for him to allow the production of a remastered FF7. Square will only make a Final Fantasy 7 remake once they've made a FF game that has surpassed the quality of the original Final Fantasy 7.

Such a sad story to re-read. Unfortunately the FF series has been long dead in my heart. I grew up on FF4/6. Loved them games so much.

But who knows maybe Square will drop out a new game that brings that style of game play back. I doubt this tho, as it just breaks my heart.


----------



## Tyler

Idk about Killzone 4, but holy crap Watch Dogs looks fantastic


----------



## Pav

SpaseMoonkey said:


> Square Enix CEO, Yoichi Wada, detailed the specific conditions needed for him to allow the production of a remastered FF7. Square will only make a Final Fantasy 7 remake once they've made a FF game that has surpassed the quality of the original Final Fantasy 7.
> 
> Such a sad story to re-read. Unfortunately the FF series has been long dead in my heart. I grew up on FF4/6. Loved them games so much.
> 
> But who knows maybe Square will drop out a new game that brings that style of game play back. I doubt this tho, as it just breaks my heart.



I'm with you all the way there, only I grew up on 6/7. I hate this faux-RPG linear track shit. X wasn't bad, but since then they've just gotten progressively worse despite ever-improving effects and visuals.


----------



## axxessdenied

Pav said:


> I'm with you all the way there, only I grew up on 6/7. I hate this faux-RPG linear track shit. X wasn't bad, but since then they've just gotten progressively worse despite ever-improving effects and visuals.



This is pretty much most games that are sequels or "remakes" these days. Too much flash, not enough solid substance!


----------



## Minoin

I agree, played VI,VII,VIII and IX to death. X was fun until the second edition was released... Has been worse ever since!
I bought the PC version of VII, but the lack of decent graphics makes it hard to get started again. Fck it, it's still better than the polished turds of recent time.


----------



## Ralyks

I'm all about FF V - IX. Didn't care a whole lot for X, didn't play XI, Barely played XII, XIII actually hasn't been that bad. But yeah, I miss the open world concepts.


----------



## Sicarius

To get this back on track, IGN released a video with a bit more info:

Everything You Need to Know About the PS4 (03.01.13) - Playstation Conversation - IGN Video


----------



## yellow

Whoever called me a dumb ass in my rep is a loser. You know who you are


----------



## Dooky

I dont care about PS4 not being backward compatible  Im certainly not going to be playing old games when there will be plenty o new ones to play. Also dont care about losing trophies  surprised there are people that care about it. Bring on the PS4 I say. Out with the old and in with the new


----------



## Steinmetzify

Finally found this.....thanks to the OP. Debut tomorrow at E3....think it's 9pm EST. Hyped.

I won't buy this immediately....I'm a casual gamer and I have a ton of other stuff going on; I can't really see paying whatever it's going to cost for the launch games. A couple of them look pretty cool, but nothing that's going to make me buy immediately. Last couple hours have been spent watching vids and I have to say it's looking pretty good. I can't wait to see an Uncharted on this system, or a new Batman Arkham either.

The non BC is a wee bit upsetting...I'm not a guy that has consoles all over the house...I usually buy one and stick to it, and the wife and I are huge fans of Black Ops....probably won't get this until some type of COD comes out for it.

I have to say that I think the non BC is kind of stupid on their part....I read the whole thread and I get why, but they have incredible games that come out right at the end of the dev cycle, and then tell you that you can't play them on the new system. I was reading earlier about some type of D/L thing that'd let you play games from PS1 all the way up....THIS makes a lot of sense to me...if that's in place at launch then I'll be buying. Are you really gonna tell me that you're putting something out that CAN'T play any type of COD on at all? Or The Last of Us? You spent millions of dollars to develop TLoU and it's not going to be playable on your new console? Derp.

Anyway....see what happens tomorrow night. I'm pretty friggin excited for it.


----------



## Aceshighhhh

I'm considering getting the PS4 just to spite Microsoft and their Xbone......

...........and having a good console is just an added bonus


----------



## Jlang

soliloquy said:


> if they use that controller...my gf might think i got that for it....
> 
> am i the only one that thinks that looks like a vibrator......
> 
> 
> 
> moving on...:
> the games i'm looking forward to:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm still disappointed that the PS3 was a bit of a sleeper console. it didn't really have anything that blew my mind (in comparison to the PS2 and its legacy)
> 
> 
> 
> but YES to it being backward compatible! even if its just the PS3 and PS4 games that it can play. it would be cool to see it having a downloadable content from the PS2 and PS1 though.
> 
> continue with bluray too!


 Oh my lanta. I had no idea this even existed . MGS is , was and always will be my favorite video game series.


----------



## TIMEwaveXERO

Is someone going to make an E3 2013 thread at all?


----------



## groverj3

Interested in seeing details of the PS4. I'd like to see how Sony's marketing compares with M$. Their stance on used games, online stuff, etc.


----------



## Mordacain

groverj3 said:


> Interested in seeing details of the PS4. I'd like to see how Sony's marketing compares with M$. Their stance on used games, online stuff, etc.



Yea, me too. I'm actually rather curious about the online features, if they plan on making PS+ more of a rival to Xbox Live or just keeping it the same.

I'm curious about used games but more from an academic perspective. I've been making a conscious effort to support the developers, much in the same way I try to support musicians.


----------



## TIMEwaveXERO

$399 !!!!


----------



## Aceshighhhh

-$399
-Used games
-No forced online
-Kingdom Hearts 3
-FFXV

I almost feel bad for Microsoft at this point


----------



## TheDivineWing22

Aceshighhhh said:


> -$399
> -Used games
> -No forced online
> -Kingdom Hearts 3
> -FFXV
> 
> I almost feel bad for Microsoft at this point



I actually thought M$ had a strong conference before I saw the Sony conference. Now it just looks like M$ got curb stomped.


----------



## iamthefonz

Is it okay for me to mention that I was kind of tearing up during the Kingdom Hearts 3 trailer?

Because I was.


----------



## lawizeg

Battlefront is going to be amazing. So stoked for this&#8212;forget about XBOX this generation...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Aceshighhhh said:


> -$399
> -Used games
> -No forced online
> -Kingdom Hearts 3
> -FFXV



Forgot something.







https://twitter.com/yosp/status/344357778288152576


----------



## Severance

I think we might need to call 911 and request the burn unit.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/344364530333274112


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Aceshighhhh said:


> -$399
> -Used games
> -No forced online
> -Kingdom Hearts 3
> -FFXV
> 
> I almost feel bad for Microsoft at this point



and again more powerful than the xbox lol


----------



## flint757

I have to admit, M$ practically wrote Sony's campaign.


----------



## groverj3

Aceshighhhh said:


> -$399
> -Used games
> -No forced online
> -Kingdom Hearts 3
> -FFXV
> 
> I almost feel bad for Microsoft at this point


 
Used games are up to the publisher. Which probably means more online pass-type stuff.

Both square games are multiplatform.

But, that pricepoint is damn good. I actually might be able to afford multiple consoles this generation (assuming future price drops).


----------



## flint757

One thing no one is considering is that even if the consoles didn't restrict use/sale the developer and publisher still can even now on current gen consoles (and on the PS4). No one is safe and out of deep water just yet, IMO, no matter what Sony or M$ says. A lot of companies have begun the online activation for multi-player as is which mean you'd have to repurchase if you wanted to use it. Same with DLC codes being one time use.


----------



## Mordacain

flint757 said:


> One thing no one is considering is that even if the consoles didn't restrict use/sale the developer and publisher still can even now on current gen consoles (and on the PS4). No one is safe and out of deep water just yet, IMO, no matter what Sony or M$ says. A lot of companies have begun the online activation for multi-player as is which mean you'd have to repurchase if you wanted to use it. Same with DLC codes being one time use.



I had a thought about DRM and why Sony was able to make a big spectacle out this after reviewing all of the presentation comments from E3 yesterday (still need to watch the actual presentations, but haven't had time yet). 

Basically, the PS3 outsold the 360 in Japan 6:1. A significant number of Sony's base installation of users resides in Japan. As a result, Sony has pretty much always catered to those players first (at least when designing the systems, if not marketing). Japan, as a country, has one of the lowest piracy rates of any country. Furthermore, it's illegal to rent games in Japan:

Why You Can't Rent Games in Japan

What does all that add up to? Essentially, that Sony doesn't need to include DRM (aside from the standard region locks) as piracy / used games does not affect them anywhere near to the degree it does Microsoft, whose installed base is largest in the U.S. where used games sales / rentals account for a much larger percentage of the market.

Interesting to note, software piracy rates are the lowest in the US. Granted, the only sources I could find made no distinction between software piracy and games piracy so take it with a grain of salt; it was just an interesting thought I had.

Honestly, while I don't think Microsoft's DRM restriction is actually bad at all, it certainly looks bad in comparison to having no restriction.

On an aside, I'm not sure how keen I am on the PS4s aesthetic design yet. I mean, I kinda like it on it's own, but it's going to look funky in the entertainment center. Now to find some time to watch the actual presentations.


----------



## Xaios

As someone who has generaly prefered Microsoft to Sony in the past, I have no problem with saying that Sony just made Microsoft their bitch. Honestly, I wouldn't surprise me if Sony covertly started rumours about the direction they were going to take, then waited for Microsoft to follow suit. Then it was simply a matter of waiting for Microsoft to get itchy enough to announce their console first, so that they could come out today and tear the Xbox One to shreds. It'll be interesting to see how Microsoft reacts.

We're not really out of the woods yet, though. While gamers are obviously going to like Sony's approach with the PS4 WAY more than the XB1, publishers are definitely going to gravitate towards Microsoft's plan, and they're the ones with the hands on the purse strings that go into development. The PS4 would have to sell way, WAY more consoles than the Xbox in order to sway them.


----------



## flint757

There is something to be said for not going first.  Competition at its finest moment.


----------



## wilch

IMO PS4 has already won this console war.


----------



## GuitaristOfHell

$100 cheaper,
No forced internet and paying for it,
better games usually,
Ps4 wins me over.


----------



## flint757

They've got 5 months to think about all the reactions and look at the numbers. They may repeal some of the policies they were considering if the numbers are compelling enough. As much as I like the idea of supporting developers more I wouldn't mind giving the middle finger to the publishers (EA and Ubisoft ).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Scroll down for some high-res pictures of the PS4 and it's accessories. 



Given how ventilated the back of the console is, I'd be beyond surprised if this thing suffers from overheating issues. 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/playstationblog/with/9011262059/


----------



## Fat-Elf

I play games on a computer. So no Ps4 for me.


----------



## Don Vito

I'm pro PC as well, but I've had Sony's back since PS1, and support them against their competitors. I highly doubt I'll buy a PS4 at launch, but I could see myself getting one down the road when the library is more established. That's how it was with every generation of Playstation for me, especially PS3. The Japanese always have enticing exclusives that will never make their way to PC(Dark Souls was a rare exception), not to mention Sony's in house stuff.

The only thing that would make me buy a PS4 at launch is spare cash and consumer optimism. I bought a pair of $200 cowboy boots last Christmas just because. I've only worn them maybe 2 times.


----------



## The Reverend

$399 is a workable number for me to deal with. It's like buying a workhorse guitar or something, and oddly enough I spend way more time with my consoles than I do playing guitar. I was worried that this time around Sony would go on that $600 trip they went back in 2006 or whenever. Glad to be wrong about that.

One thing, and this hurts me as a Sony fanboy to say, is that it's looking like Playstation Plus will be required to play online multiplayer. This was covered at the conference and also in several credible reports on the conference, but it seems like it's been ignored. As someone who is so used to PSN being free, this will be a bit of a stretch for me. I understand the practical reasons behind doing it, as servers and such cost money, but I'm on a shoestring budget as it is. Luckily they told me the launch price months in advance!


----------



## Johnson_LACS

I'm ready for tha KILLZONE BUNDLE PACK!

Still, while livin' in the ex-USSR zone, where all the consoles being hacked and s...t (We're not bad guys, we're just having our work payments as small, as rat penis. I hate our government.) 

Sorry for off-topic.
Anyway, I suppose in a matter of few months - PS4 as XCoffin One, will be hacked, games will be free to download.

Good for me, I'll have some more cash for my pickup project.


----------



## Severance

groverj3 said:


> Used games are up to the publisher. Which probably means more online pass-type stuff.
> 
> Both square games are multiplatform.
> 
> But, that pricepoint is damn good. I actually might be able to afford multiple consoles this generation (assuming future price drops).









O reary at the KH and FFXV.



The Reverend said:


> $399 is a workable number for me to deal with. It's like buying a workhorse guitar or something, and oddly enough I spend way more time with my consoles than I do playing guitar. I was worried that this time around Sony would go on that $600 trip they went back in 2006 or whenever. Glad to be wrong about that.
> 
> One thing, and this hurts me as a Sony fanboy to say, is that it's looking like Playstation Plus will be required to play online multiplayer. This was covered at the conference and also in several credible reports on the conference, but it seems like it's been ignored. As someone who is so used to PSN being free, this will be a bit of a stretch for me. I understand the practical reasons behind doing it, as servers and such cost money, but I'm on a shoestring budget as it is. Luckily they told me the launch price months in advance!
> Like



I will answer this one by quoting myself from the e3 thread:



Severance said:


> If people are complaining about ps+ for multiplayer and sucking Microsofts dicks they're are just plain stupid. If there complaining about it because it's mandatory for online play... so what better kept servers for a better online experience. All this is beside the point not only is ps+ already awesome they give you so many free games. I have in the almost 2 years I have subbed gotten well over $2000 dollars worth of free games and not just indy games. I have gotten games like King of Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Borderlands, The Simpson Arcade game, Infamous 1 and 2, Resident Evil 1-3, and Sleeping Dogs for you guessed it... free. These aren't the only ones either they're just the ones I can think of off the top of my head.
> 
> And besides all this... Kingdom Hearts 3 end of story.



Microsoft just got out done period. Also I would just like to say as a member of the PC master race just cause you have a PC doesn't mean you should be a snob and say something about being better then consoles. Mainly cause PC has no fighting games.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Square actually confirmed that Kingdon Hearts 3 and FFXV are multi-plat and will be on both XBone and PS4.


----------



## wilch

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Square actually confirmed that Kingdon Hearts 3 and FFXV are multi-plat and will be on both XBone and PS4.



^ When I first read that I read X-Bone.


----------



## wilch

wow...just wow.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

wilch said:


> ^ When I first read that I read X-Bone.



I got it from Boogie2988 when he said, as his Francis character, people were calling the Xbox One the "Xbone". I couldn't resist. 


wilch said:


> wow...just wow.




Dat arrogance.


----------



## Repner

wilch said:


> ^ When I first read that I read X-Bone.



I prefer to call it the Xbox Done.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Sony is getting rid of online passes for all PS4 games. 



> In terms of just getting access of multiplayer online, it's now taken care of at a platform level by PS Plus. So our first party titles had the online pass on PS3 and Vita. That we are not doing on PS4 because of that platform level. It's the same for third parties; when it comes to just giving you access to online multiplayer, it's PS Plus going forward.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

im most likely going to switch to the PS4 but the only thing thats stopping me is the continuation of the Halo series, iv been a huge fan of the games ever since the first one and would really hate to just stop playing them because i switched to another console. WHY CANT THERE JUST BE ONE UNIVERSAL CONSOLE GOD DAMNIT!


----------



## Sicarius

This is probably about as close to a universal console as you're going to get. 

Damn near identical specs, and the color schemes are very similar.


----------



## Curt

As an XBOX guy since day one of the very first one, I feel the PS4 is looking promising in comparison to XB1.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Respawn/EA are hinting that Titanfall may be released for the PS4.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Wow, the lead architect for the PS4 didn't even know how the console would look.


----------



## Tyler

Im pretty sold on this over the Xbox. Plus Destiny and The Division have me giddy like a child even though theyre for both. Though I always loved the Killzone series


----------



## Sicarius

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Respawn/EA are hinting that Titanfall may be released for the PS4.



I wouldn't count on it, honestly. I see Respawn in a situation similar to where Bungie was when they made Halo. 

Respawn basically has to rebuild from the ground up, and they've been working on this for a while, so Microsoft throws them and EA a shit load of money and get another exclusive.

I'm not too worried about it. If I want to play CoD with Mechs, I'll play Hawken.


----------



## texshred777

If the PS4 isn't requiring internet connection there's one thing I hope they leave out..the damn update demands. 

Whether its a message that spams or the console refusing to operate without an update. It's strange that a console that'd never been connected to the internet was demanding updates to watch a Blue Ray or play Uncharted.


----------



## Jonathan20022

texshred777 said:


> If the PS4 isn't requiring internet connection there's one thing I hope they leave out..the damn update demands.
> 
> Whether its a message that spams or the console refusing to operate without it an update. It's strange that a console that'd never been connected to the internet was demanding updates to watch a Blue Ray or play Uncharted.



It's actually much worse on the Vita haha, just so people know I'm leaning towards Sony this holiday Season. Not like I even considered the Xbox when I learned more about it. I also worked for Sony in a retail store for awhile so don't take what I'm saying as negativity.

The Vita has this absurd system where you have to connect to the internet via your PC to transfer anything via usb to it. There's an app that blocks out the need for the internet, but still that was pretty surprising. It's not a hindrance at this point since I don't keep up with the Vita's hacks enough to care, I'd much rather play my games online than play the same emulators I can get on anything else


----------



## texshred777

Kenji20022 said:


> It's actually much worse on the Vita haha, just so people know I'm leaning towards Sony this holiday Season. Not like I even considered the Xbox when I learned more about it. I also worked for Sony in a retail store for awhile so don't take what I'm saying as negativity.
> 
> The Vita has this absurd system where you have to connect to the internet via your PC to transfer anything via usb to it. There's an app that blocks out the need for the internet, but still that was pretty surprising. It's not a hindrance at this point since I don't keep up with the Vita's hacks enough to care, I'd much rather play my games online than play the same emulators I can get on anything else


 
I definitely won't be buying either this holiday system, but definitely leaning in the direction of Sony when I eventually do.


----------



## The Reverend

Tex, one of the good things Sony is doing with the PS4 is moving system and game updates to the background. I bought another PS3 in February and had to sit through a hell of a long system update on my shoddy internet, and then more once I put in a disc. I was sold on Sony the second they brought up the new way of downloading things.


----------



## Xaios

Bahaha!


----------



## shawnt3

I know it ain't exactly one of the big titles...but is anyone else excited for the new Killer Instinct!??! I used to play that shit ALL the time on SNES.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

shawnt3 said:


> I know it ain't exactly one of the big titles...but is anyone else excited for the new Killer Instinct!??! I used to play that shit ALL the time on SNES.



Don't mean to burst your bubble, but, Killer Instinct is an Xbox one exclusive.


----------



## shawnt3

DAMMIT! Just read up on that.

This makes my decision harder.


----------



## Sicarius

The K.I. that's on the XBone is basically a demo with Jago. You have to pay to unlock the other characters.

As much as I loved KI as a kid, it's not enough to make me get an Xbox.


----------



## Curt

I am probably going to get the xbox if only for Titanfall, Killer Instinct, and the new Halo.

PS4 for all else, though.


----------



## Sicarius

3 games really doesn't justify a $500 purchase to me.


----------



## Joseph Kimbrell

The main reason I'd like it to be backwards compatible is so I can play FFX HD when that comes out. It would be cool to be able to play PS3 games (just like the PS2 played PS1 games). But I feel like people expect to be able to play PS1, PS2, PS3, and PS4 games with backwards compatibility. I would actually play some PS2 games probably! But I feel like that's a lot of extra baggage to pack in...

I mean, backwards compatibility would be really cool, don't get me wrong. But "back in the day" we never expected systems to be backwards compatible, we actually kept the system if we wanted to keep playing those games.


----------



## Sicarius

I still have my old 60GB awesome PS3. I just need to replace the Blu-Ray drive (.... you, MW2) and throw an SSD in it, and I'll be Good to Go for any B/C needs. 

I have it packed away until I can get around to fixing it. Though it'd be nice to play Nocturne all the way through, finally.


----------



## Qweklain

Joseph Kimbrell said:


> The main reason I'd like it to be backwards compatible is so I can play FFX HD when that comes out. It would be cool to be able to play PS3 games (just like the PS2 played PS1 games). But I feel like people expect to be able to play PS1, PS2, PS3, and PS4 games with backwards compatibility. I would actually play some PS2 games probably! But I feel like that's a lot of extra baggage to pack in...
> 
> I mean, backwards compatibility would be really cool, don't get me wrong. But "back in the day" we never expected systems to be backwards compatible, we actually kept the system if we wanted to keep playing those games.


That would jump the cost on PS4 so much in order to be 100% backwards with 1/2/3. Only reason that the original CECHA/B fat PS3 models could play PS1/2 completely was because it literally has the PS2 inside of it (EMO chip and hardware) on the board. That is why I looked for a CECHA model a few years ago when I bought my PS3 and has been working perfectly.

I would LOVE for it to be all-gen backwards capable, and I would pay for it, but very few would so it will not happen.

Being backwards compatible with a cartridge is a little bit more difficult than a CD.


----------



## Xaios

Joseph Kimbrell said:


> I mean, backwards compatibility would be really cool, don't get me wrong. But "back in the day" we never expected systems to be backwards compatible, we actually kept the system if we wanted to keep playing those games.



While that's true, until the PS2 came out, you never had never before had an instance where the newest iteration of a console used the exact same media as its forebear. Before that, you couldn't exactly plug an SNES cartridge into an N64 console, and so forth.


----------



## Mordacain

Sicarius said:


> 3 games really doesn't justify a $500 purchase to me.



My PS3 was really only used for the Uncharted games and I used PC / 360 for everything else (since ports of most games I play tended to be buggy on PS3). I think it was still worth the investment because those are incredible games and I would have been sad to have missed out on them.

Granted, I bought a slim model a couple of years into release, so I didn't pay launch price.

At the moment, I'm undecided as to which system I'll get first or even when. I have a feeling it will be when Dragon Age Inquisition is released, since my wife prefers to play it on console versus PC and it is a next-gen exclusive.


----------



## Sicarius

Granted I got mine on a whim, I only stopped playing it because it broke. So I can't really judge. I also wanted a Blu-Ray player. 

So, eh.


----------



## Mordacain

Sicarius said:


> Granted I got mine on a whim, I only stopped playing it because it broke. So I can't really judge. I also wanted a Blu-Ray player.
> 
> So, eh.



I had a stand-alone Blu-Ray player but actually prefer playing blu-rays on the PS3 (once I bought the media remote any way). Load times are much quicker on the PS3.

So I neglected to mention that I use the PS3 for that primarily as well.


----------



## Mordacain

Severance said:


> Mainly cause PC has no fighting games.



I would argue that the PC has MAME so it is the king of fighting games 

I agree that Sony trumped MS on their E3 presentation from what I've seen (still haven't been able to sit through either companies entire presentation).

I do think Sony just avoided the DRM issue (since they are leaving it up to the publisher) so while I realize that their smackdown on MS was most likely just PR smoke and mirrors, I can't argue that it wasn't effective.

Granted, down the road when publisher agreements are finalized and the possibility of DRM on PS4 becomes reality, I'm not sure how irate folks will be about the misdirection. That of course assumes that publishers do implement some form of DRM as the industry is predicting.


----------



## texshred777

DRM will likely be an issue regardless of which platform bought. As long as I don't have to be online to play a single player game, I'll be ok. I tend to buy games new, as the used ones aren't much cheaper much of the time. 

Does it matter who is implementing the DRM? I guess no, but I still like that Sony isn't the one in the driver seat, and leaving it up to the publishers.


----------



## Curt

Sicarius said:


> 3 games really doesn't justify a $500 purchase to me.


 Well, not ONLY for those games. I have quite a few friends(around half of them) who are getting the XB1, so whatever MP games they pick up over time, I will as well. Kind of reverse of what I did with the 360 and PS3.


This year will be my first playstation since 2001. Sony is just doing everything right this time.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Qweklain said:


> That would jump the cost on PS4 so much in order to be 100% backwards with 1/2/3. Only reason that the original CECHA/B fat PS3 models could play PS1/2 completely was because it literally has the PS2 inside of it (EMO chip and hardware) on the board. That is why I looked for a CECHA model a few years ago when I bought my PS3 and has been working perfectly.
> 
> I would LOVE for it to be all-gen backwards capable, and I would pay for it, but very few would so it will not happen.




You know, that gives me an idea. Most people won't want to pay the extra money that a system with the necessary bits and bobs to be fully backwards compatible would cost (especially not since Sony wants to keep their price advantage), but _SOME_ people certainly would. 

With that in mind, I think it'd be cool if Sony released a special/limited edition PS4 that _COULD_ play PS1/2/3 games. Sure, it'd cost more to make and they'd have to charge more for it, but you just _know_ there are hardcore gamers out there who would eat that shit up.

Companies do seem to like to release new version after new version of their consoles, throwing in special editions and fancy paintjobs/controllers over the life of the console, so why not a special edition with the hardware to make it fully backwards compatible?

There you go, Sony. That's a freebie, straight from a Grand Moff.


----------



## Sicarius

I don't honestly think the new architecture would support it. They said that was the reason why the PSN purchases wouldn't carry over, and why they bought GaiKai to solve the issue for them.

For them to release such an edition they'd have to go back and re-engineer something that could do all versions. The cost of the R&D alone would probably be the biggest deterrent. 

Trust me, I'd love to have one that could, but for the price they'd have to release it at, it's not worth it, search Amazon, eBay and Gamestops when you get back to the states for a 20 or 60Gb PS3.

You can't have mine, though.


----------



## MFB

Anyone know if Sony plans to add a chunk of their PS3 roster to the PSN so that you could re-buy them on the store and have them on the PS4? That'd be one way of doing backwards compatible and I'd totally be down for it, especially for stuff like the Kingdom Hearts 1.5 ReMiX that's coming out in September since I haven't played it since they first came out and that was years ago.


----------



## SpaceDock

I gave up on XBOX when my live account ran out, let's hope Sony keeps their online features free. Such bs that Microsoft makes people pay extra for netflix and multiplayer.


----------



## The Reverend

SpaceDock said:


> I gave up on XBOX when my live account ran out, let's hope Sony keeps their online features free. Such bs that Microsoft makes people pay extra for netflix and multiplayer.



From what I understand, you'll only have to pay for online multiplayer. That means Netflix and any other internet-dependent app you'd want to run will remain free of charge.


----------



## Curt

SpaceDock said:


> I gave up on XBOX when my live account ran out, let's hope Sony keeps their online features free. Such bs that Microsoft makes people pay extra for netflix and multiplayer.


Most online MP on PS4 will require PS+.

I don't mind paying $50 a year so long as they use that money to improve the service. Been doing it for ages now with XBOX, and see no problem in it.


----------



## Sicarius

MFB said:


> Anyone know if Sony plans to add a chunk of their PS3 roster to the PSN so that you could re-buy them on the store and have them on the PS4? That'd be one way of doing backwards compatible and I'd totally be down for it, especially for stuff like the Kingdom Hearts 1.5 ReMiX that's coming out in September since I haven't played it since they first came out and that was years ago.



Yes and No. Because the PS4 has zero b/c, nothing purchased on the PSN on a PS3 or PSP will transfer to the PS4. 

However, they purchased Gaikai and are integrating their services into the PS4 somehow, so that you'll be able to buy older games and replay them on the PS4.

No one really knows how it's going to work, as they haven't really demonstrated it, afaik. All we know is it's going to be in the US first, with a small selection of PS3 games initially.

Later on, it'll hit PS3, the rest of the world and the library will expand, and eventually Vita will get it as well.


----------



## Murmel

This is probably late, but I'm sadfaced that Sony decided to go with a fee for online gaming.


----------



## Curt

Murmel said:


> This is probably late, but I'm sadfaced that Sony decided to go with a fee for online gaming.


 As was I. But I had been paying for XBL for quite a few years.

As I have said before, I will gladly pay for improved service.


----------



## flint757

It's about time honestly. Sony's online gaming needed a face lift and a fee might be all it takes to get the job done.

PS+ is an incredibly useful service anyhow that will get you all sorts of free stuff and not necessarily just old stuff either. Plus discounts.


----------



## Sicarius

They've said in interviews that they went with a fee to help them to expand the capabilities of PSN.

Make it more robust, add features and shit. They're trying to get the players to help shoulder the costs. 

Which is perfectly fine, XBL has a lot of awesome features I wish we had.


----------



## Osorio

Sicarius said:


> Which is perfectly fine, XBL has a lot of awesome features I wish we had.



Care to give some examples? I'm not being facetious or anything. I know next to nothing about the 360 and Live. I also don't game online in general, so I'm just wondering what kind of features are we talking about, that would be needed or welcomed for a price.

(I'm not complaining that they decided to push the subscription. As it is, PS+ is great value, and I have TWO subs of it currently going, and will renew both. I'm actually happy they decided to spread the service, and I hope it will translate to better deals for everyone.)


----------



## Sicarius

I mainly want the party features that XBL provides. Get together with some friends, and go join a game together.

to be honest I could give a shit less about the game deals it provides. I want them to just make the service as a whole better.


----------



## Mordacain

Sicarius said:


> I mainly want the party features that XBL provides. Get together with some friends, and go join a game together.
> 
> to be honest I could give a shit less about the game deals it provides. I want them to just make the service as a whole better.



Yea, I'm hoping they make PSN a lot more robust as far as online goes. Really though, I think they just need to get matchmaking working more seamlessly and faster to match Live in that respect.

I actually just got a month free on PS+ (wandering around the virtual E3 booth in PS Home, which is pretty cool I must say) and have been playing around with it.

After watching through Sony's press conference (still need to try and get through Microsoft's today) I'm actually pretty psyched. I still don't think I'll be picking either system up at launch yet but I think once the next Uncharted comes out I'll probably be swayed to invest in one then.

Unless of course something exclusive comes along I just can't live without


----------



## Sicarius

Yeah, MGS5 and GT6 are also on PS3, so I don't have any reason to go to the PS4 until Infamous Second Son comes out. 

Hell I still need to beat Infamous 2.


----------



## MFB

I know the white would make people make Wii jokes, but .... me do I want one in a matte finish


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Are those legit? :O


----------



## StevenC

To the purple one, GameParellipipid doesnt have the same ring to it.


----------



## texshred777

I'll take one in purple.


----------



## Osorio

Sicarius said:


> I mainly want the party features that XBL provides. Get together with some friends, and go join a game together.
> 
> to be honest I could give a shit less about the game deals it provides. I want them to just make the service as a whole better.




... It seems I'm the opposite of the general gaming crowd now. 

If anything regarding friends, I wish they would go back to assuming we have REAL ones, that come over and like to play a game over some beverages (of course, I mean this more about game development in general then console hardware).

Personally, I would definitely unsubscribe from Plus if they stopped the free games thing. I, for one, couldn't possibly care less about online play. Last thing I want in my games is other people, specially ones I don't know. 
But I do hope they can find the middle ground and make everyone happy.

---
Those consoles look great, mostly. I do hope it is legit, I haven't seem anything about those anywhere else (not that I looked for it though). I would gladly take the white with the black detail on the bottom right. Very slick.


----------



## Sicarius

Until the PS4 launches, all Plus is good for is free/discounted games. It doesn't serve any other purpose right now.


----------



## MFB

venneer said:


> If anything regarding friends, I wish they would go back to assuming we have REAL ones, that come over and like to play a game over some beverages (of course, I mean this more about game development in general then console hardware).



I understand that it's great getting together with friends in the same room and playing together (tee-hee) but when you actually go back and do it - it kind of sucks. I mean, I don't know about you but when I was growing up we had three small Xbox controllers and one person got stuck using the big original Bear Claw controller which ....ing sucked for the most part. Along with that, you had four different wires which could also be disconnected halfway along if someone didn't watch where they were going and you're all gaming on some tiny as TV screen (which would now be slightly bigger) and dealing the constant accusation of "SCREEN LOOKER!" 

With online gaming, you each get your own TV to use, don't have to deal with the possibility of getting stuck with the shitty controller/having it come unplugged, and you know that no one is actually able to look at your screen so you can kick their ass as hard as you can but still talk to them the entire time. Hell, I don't even have to put on pants to hang out with friends anymore!


----------



## texshred777

You put on pants to hang out with friends? 

Weird.

Seriously though, agreed. Being the guy with the finicky A button sucks. So does split screen.


----------



## flint757

When I do LAN parties we all bring over monitors and just hook them up to a couple boxes. We still end up using online though as it is less complicated that way.


----------



## Mordacain

venneer said:


> ... It seems I'm the opposite of the general gaming crowd now.
> 
> If anything regarding friends, I wish they would go back to assuming we have REAL ones, that come over and like to play a game over some beverages (of course, I mean this more about game development in general then console hardware).
> 
> Personally, I would definitely unsubscribe from Plus if they stopped the free games thing. I, for one, couldn't possibly care less about online play. Last thing I want in my games is other people, specially ones I don't know.
> But I do hope they can find the middle ground and make everyone happy.
> 
> ---
> Those consoles look great, mostly. I do hope it is legit, I haven't seem anything about those anywhere else (not that I looked for it though). I would gladly take the white with the black detail on the bottom right. Very slick.



Yea, I can understand that. By the same token, I really hope the image I saw of the PS4 outputting to two TV's for player 1 & 2 is true. I hate splitscreen on widescreen TVs something fierce.

/Edit, just took a closer look at the pics, no second HDMI port...wonder what misinformation trove I found that gem at 

I do dig the communal aspect of getting together in a room and just hammering out multiplayer. Hell, my friends and I still have semi-regular Halo multiplayer matches that usually start off in big team battle and devolve (as more alcohol is imbibed) into co-op or just random deathmatches. We still bust out the original xbox when we want to play 4 player on the same screen.



Sicarius said:


> Until the PS4 launches, all Plus is good for is free/discounted games. It doesn't serve any other purpose right now.



I haven't had enough time on it yet, but that does seem to be it's chief purpose. I did play my first online Uncharted match the other day though... and it seems match-making needs a lot of work. It was dog slow compared to Xbox Live.



MFB said:


> I understand that it's great getting together with friends in the same room and playing together (tee-hee) but when you actually go back and do it - it kind of sucks. I mean, I don't know about you but when I was growing up we had three small Xbox controllers and one person got stuck using the big original Bear Claw controller which ....ing sucked for the most part. Along with that, you had four different wires which could also be disconnected halfway along if someone didn't watch where they were going and you're all gaming on some tiny as TV screen (which would now be slightly bigger) and dealing the constant accusation of "SCREEN LOOKER!"
> 
> With online gaming, you each get your own TV to use, don't have to deal with the possibility of getting stuck with the shitty controller/having it come unplugged, and you know that no one is actually able to look at your screen so you can kick their ass as hard as you can but still talk to them the entire time. Hell, I don't even have to put on pants to hang out with friends anymore!



Ah yes, the odd-man out with the bear claw. I actually had a Japanese version of the S controller before they ever released it Stateside and I was the envy of our small Halo group for awhile.


----------



## Sicarius

Pants are for those weirdo social people.

.... pants.


----------



## The Reverend

I will always be a couch co-op guy. Online is definitely great too, but sometimes I just want to burn through a rented game in Campaign with a buddy while we waste our weekend. It's getting harder to find games that even offer the option now.


----------



## Curt

The Reverend said:


> I will always be a couch co-op guy. Online is definitely great too, but sometimes I just want to burn through a rented game in Campaign with a buddy while we waste our weekend. It's getting harder to find games that even offer the option now.


 I am the same. 
Shit, I went to my friend's house last week to drink a few beers and play some Portal 2. I usually play BF3, CoD, and Halo online with him and a few other friends, but chilling with a friend on friday night and playing a favorite game with a good friend is easily the best escape from the world for a few hours.


All said, I have made a few friends on XBL, but most of my friends I actually play with are people I know personally.

66 XBL friends Which breaks down into -> 22 I have known since childhood, or are friends from work-> 8 XBL friends I play CoD or Halo with often ->36 XBL "friends" I have spoken to a time or two.


----------



## jonajon91

A few things. Can anyone tell me how much the playstation network is going to cost in £. I hear it is $5 a month, but Sony and Microsoft don't seem to know what an exchange rate is so will it cost £5 a month because that is £60 a year, twice as much as I am paying for a year of xBox live.
Second, has any company announced custom controllers for the PS4, I would love nothing more than a 360 controller or an xbox1 controller ported into the PS4. I am just used to having my left thumb up top and a bit of weight behind the controller, I always thought the PS3 controller was very flimsy.


----------



## StevenC

jonajon91 said:


> A few things. Can anyone tell me how much the playstation network is going to cost in £. I hear it is $5 a month, but Sony and Microsoft don't seem to know what an exchange rate is so will it cost £5 a month because that is £60 a year, twice as much as I am paying for a year of xBox live.
> Second, has any company announced custom controllers for the PS4, I would love nothing more than a 360 controller or an xbox1 controller ported into the PS4. I am just used to having my left thumb up top and a bit of weight behind the controller, I always thought the PS3 controller was very flimsy.



As far as I can tell, they will both be £39.99 a year. They both appear to be staying the same.


----------



## jonajon91

^ sorry, i'm confused. Both of what? And £39.99 a MONTH? if it is that much a year that is okay.


----------



## flint757

I think he meant per year not month as neither service is that expensive as is.


----------



## Murmel

venneer said:


> ... It seems I'm the opposite of the general gaming crowd now.
> 
> If anything regarding friends, I wish they would go back to assuming we have REAL ones, that come over and like to play a game over some beverages (of course, I mean this more about game development in general then console hardware).



This times a trillion.



MFB said:


> I understand that it's great getting together with friends in the same room and playing together (tee-hee) but when you actually go back and do it - it kind of sucks. I mean, I don't know about you but when I was growing up we had three small Xbox controllers and one person got stuck using the big original Bear Claw controller which ....ing sucked for the most part. Along with that, you had four different wires which could also be disconnected halfway along if someone didn't watch where they were going and you're all gaming on some tiny as TV screen (which would now be slightly bigger) and dealing the constant accusation of "SCREEN LOOKER!"
> 
> With online gaming, you each get your own TV to use, don't have to deal with the possibility of getting stuck with the shitty controller/having it come unplugged, and you know that no one is actually able to look at your screen so you can kick their ass as hard as you can but still talk to them the entire time. Hell, I don't even have to put on pants to hang out with friends anymore!



If guys can't get along and play video games in the same room just for fun then don't do it. I've had sooo much fun sitting on a couch playing together with my buddies.

And small TV screens aren't really an issue anymore for, dare I say, most people. A big screen isn't the least expensive these days.


----------



## Osorio

Murmel said:


> If guys can't get along and play video games in the same room just for fun then don't do it. I've had sooo much fun sitting on a couch playing together with my buddies.



Yeah... I can understand that a lot can go wrong when you do local co-op in a semi-party scenario... But it has just never happened to me and I dearly miss it. Seems like you guys just didn't know how to appreciate the situation. The same could be said about me and online stuff. I just don't know how to get along with it, and for the most part, have no real interest in figuring it out.
The closest I have experience to the old days was when a few friends came over and I booted up Little Big Planet, a game I absolutely despise, but it was the only thing that we could all play together. It was all good and fun, we laughed, half of people didn't know how to play correctly and it was amusing. In time, the game became a platform so we could see how could .... up the hardest on doing simple puzzles.

Aside of fighting games, it is so rare for games to feature local stuff. I bought Ghost Recon Future Soldier recently and I have loads of fun playing Guerilla with my fiancee, but on the back of my mind, I'm constantly pissed that the co-op for the campaign is online-only. Would it REALLY have been so freaking hard to make the campaign local? ... I think it is nothing short of a SIN that the only racer games I have that feature local co-op are Blur and Gran Turismo 5. I cannot for the life of me understand what possessed the minds of the developers of Need For Speed (of which I own three, if not mistaken) that they decided to not implement split-screen. Instead we get... Auto-log. Yay.........

/rant.


----------



## Sicarius

Because, it's easier to get together in an online match than it is to get people to your house to play a game.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but online MP isn't rocket science, and there's nothing to figure out..

Join a match, play it, and if you really want to use a mic to communicate.

Sure your friends aren't right there, but that's one of the joys of the internet, meet new people. That's kind of why it's called a community.

Xbox and PS are online oriented. If you want games to play in a party setting, get a Wii.


----------



## flint757

Have a LAN party and they can all be there. Just need to bring over the consoles, a switch, and some monitors/small tv sets. It is odd that split screen is pretty much a thing of the past though. It doesn't seem like it would be complicated or all that intensive to add in to a game as an option even if it goes untouched by many.


----------



## Sicarius

But, there in lies the problem. If it's hardly being used, then why invest in putting it into the game?


----------



## StevenC

jonajon91 said:


> ^ sorry, i'm confused. Both of what? And £39.99 a MONTH? if it is that much a year that is okay.



Sorry, both Live and PS+ will be £39.99 a year.


----------



## flint757

That's probably why it isn't there, but it does seem like some people use it. It seems to me that it is just a matter of changing the resolution and power so it allows for multiple players without bogging down the system.


----------



## Murmel

Sicarius said:


> Because, it's easier to get together in an online match than it is to get people to your house to play a game.



If it's something I've learned the past few years it's that you get much more enjoyment out of actually being with a physical person rather than just having them somewhere else while talking to them. Be it chatting, gaming, you name it.

Often I might just hang out with 1 of my friends and we're a bit bored. We check to see if any of the suh-weet games we have can be played co-op, usually they can't and we just get angry. There's no damn reason we shouldn't be able to play Need For Speed split-screen.

I didn't quote it, but you mentioned in the same post about getting a Wii instead if you want to play with your friends on the same machine. If I wanted a Wii, I'd get a Wii. I'm not interested in playing the Wii games, which I don't even want, I want us to get together on our Xbox and PS3.

Saying that I should just go and get a different console with complete different games because I want to play with my friends is pretty dumb 



flint757 said:


> Have a LAN party and they can all be there. Just need to bring over the consoles, a switch, and some monitors/small tv sets. It is odd that split screen is pretty much a thing of the past though. It doesn't seem like it would be complicated or all that intensive to add in to a game as an option even if it goes untouched by many.



A LAN party is an option. But most of the time we're not getting together to play games in the first place, it's something we come up with later on. I'm literally the only one of my friends who even owns a newer generation console, so I can't throw LAN parties either.


----------



## The Reverend

Sicarius said:


> Because, it's easier to get together in an online match than it is to get people to your house to play a game.
> 
> I'm not trying to be a dick, but online MP isn't rocket science, and there's nothing to figure out..
> 
> Join a match, play it, and if you really want to use a mic to communicate.
> 
> Sure your friends aren't right there, but that's one of the joys of the internet, meet new people. That's kind of why it's called a community.
> 
> Xbox and PS are online oriented. If you want games to play in a party setting, get a Wii.



The internet consists solely of prepubescent boys with an affinity for hate speech if online play is any kind of a population sample. Or else my favorite, Nerdy Guy Who Cares Too Much. You hear him smashing shit when his K/D ratio is shat on, talking about how a microsecond lag just ruined his clan standing or something. 

I don't know how you lived through the N64 era. No GoldenEye? Four dudes, or in my case kids, with our noses pressed up against the glass of a 27" behemoth of a TV, our little shit boxes curving off in the corners. Great times. Now you actually get decent horizontal views with widescreens. Regardless, it's a lot better than you remember.

Keep in mind that some of us enjoy actual human contact.


----------



## Murmel

^
The James Bond series have always been among my favourite for split-screen shenanigans. The most fun I've ever had with video games was probably playing James Bond: Nightfire on the PS2 with my buddies.


----------



## texshred777

I prefer online for MP because between poor vision and color blindness, split screen can be difficult for me. I also don't have any friends near me with a 360 who plays any kind of MP. Hell, I don't really do much MP. 

That said, I've had some great experiences doing split screen Firefight in Halo, or even passing the sticks back and forth on campaign. We went through MW2, Halo3, DMC4, SW:TFU, Crysis 2, and Halo Reach taking turns. 

So many lives and bowls. Good times.


----------



## Sicarius

The Reverend said:


> The internet consists solely of prepubescent boys with an affinity for hate speech if online play is any kind of a population sample. Or else my favorite, Nerdy Guy Who Cares Too Much. You hear him smashing shit when his K/D ratio is shat on, talking about how a microsecond lag just ruined his clan standing or something.
> 
> I don't know how you lived through the N64 era. No GoldenEye? Four dudes, or in my case kids, with our noses pressed up against the glass of a 27" behemoth of a TV, our little shit boxes curving off in the corners. Great times. Now you actually get decent horizontal views with widescreens. Regardless, it's a lot better than you remember.
> 
> Keep in mind that some of us enjoy actual human contact.



People are a lot like pants. There's also this nifty little feature, where you can mute other players. So, that solves that problem.

I lived through the N64 era like a lot of other poor kids that didn't have a big TV, or an N64:

I was outside playing in the sun. It wasn't until I was given a PS1 by a friend of mine that I became a hate filled meat-bag. 

I don't have any friends near me that play the things I play. I also tend to use my PS3 for single player games, like MGS, Gran Turismo, RPGs.

I have a computer for the "social" games.


----------



## Osorio

Look, man.. The "get a Wii" thing is a really, REALLY stupid "argument". It's basically what MS is doing with the X1, whether they realize it or not. I'm not refusing to evolve, I would just like people to stop assuming that "their thing" is better and it is all I'll ever need and that I need to get it on with the times. As it has already been said:



Murmel said:


> If I wanted a Wii, I'd get a Wii. I'm not interested in playing the Wii games (...). Saying that I should just go and get a different console with complete different games because I want to play with my friends is pretty dumb



I don't doubt that your kind of people exist. People that refer to play online. Frankly, I can see a game like Battefield (a game I have ZERO interest in playing) working better online then split screen. Sure, your "kind" of gamer exists, and I respect that, I know you also have your needs. But my kind is real as well. God only knows why split-screen is disappearing, I can assure you though, it is not because "no one wants it". 

I'm also sure as hell both types of gamer-personality can coexist.

Lan parties involve a lot of work and moving stuff around, never mind a really big room if you are going to put all that stuff in the same place. As someone has already said, most of the times where split-screen is a good idea are not coming from hardcore gaming, just FUN gaming with people that happen to be there. I can totally relate to the situation of having someone over, going over the possible activities, stumble upon gaming only to realize that next to no games over some kind of local co-op.
I remember playing a lot of video games with my father when I was growing up... Now? Nope. Why? Because fighting games or GTFO.



Sicarius said:


> There's also this nifty little feature, where you can mute other players. So, that solves that problem.


It sure doesn't. Just because people are not screaming obscenities in my ear, doesn't mean they are not ....ing the game up. The words "spammers" and "campers" should summarize the wrongness in your line of thought pretty well.



The Reverend said:


> Regardless, [split-screen gaming] is a lot better than you remember. (...) Keep in mind that some of us enjoy actual human contact.


Pretty much this.


----------



## Sicarius

I said, get a wii, because it is a console geared more for "party" gaming, with large groups of people in mind. It's not a stupid argument at all, it's perfectly valid. You just don't want one because you don't want to play the games it has.

"spammers" and "Campers" are a fact of life when you play any game, online or splt-screen. Have a friend that sucks? They're going to spam a "broken" move, or camp a spot. Play online? Play, or Rage quit.


----------



## Mordacain

Sicarius said:


> I said, get a wii, because it is a console geared more for "party" gaming, with large groups of people in mind. It's not a stupid argument at all, it's perfectly valid. You just don't want one because you don't want to play the games it has.
> 
> "spammers" and "Campers" are a fact of life when you play any game, online or splt-screen. Have a friend that sucks? They're going to spam a "broken" move, or camp a spot. Play online? Play, or Rage quit.



Wanting to sit on couch with your bros and some beers and rage on multiplayer does not equal "party gaming" in my book.

Personally, all games should at least have two player split-screen support if they have a multiplayer component as far as I am concerned. Granted, I can't say I've ever seen any that haven't; it would certainly seem a curious omission to me.


----------



## Sicarius

Really? Because that sounds like every college party Halo match to me.


----------



## Mordacain

Sicarius said:


> Really? Because that sounds like every college party Halo match to me.



Not arguing that isn't the case, but Halo is certainly not what comes to mind when I think "party gaming." Having owned a Wii, I can verify that Wii Sports, Bowling, Resort, etc are all party games. 

Party games are games that all people at a party, being gamers or not should be able to enjoy.

Halo, being a game that requires skill and practice, does not fit that description.


----------



## Sicarius

Fine, whatever, all games get split-screen.

Let's move the conversation along to something that's related to the console.

Here's a thing, you want to break that "split-screen" co-op needs to be available thing you've got?

Play Resident Evil 6.


----------



## Mordacain

Sicarius said:


> Fine, whatever, all games get split-screen.
> 
> Let's move the conversation along to something that's related to the console.



Honestly, not sure how it devolved from that in the first place...

Did I miss some news that local multiplayer was going away? Or did this all stem from discussion regarding PS+?

However, on another point on the console, has anyone been able to pick out where the HDD bay is in any of the promo shots? Since it's supposed to be user upgradable and all...

/Edit - nvm...I just read the last few posts I missed after my last contribution to the thread. I hadn't noticed a lack of splitscreen as an option in any of the games I play so wasn't aware it wasn't an option in many titles.


----------



## Sicarius

It's probably on the bottom or the back somewhere.
Ha, found the pictures.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/playstationblog/sets/72157634059061302/

They don't show the bottom of the console, so I'm guessing there.


----------



## Lagtastic

This sums up my thoughts extremely well.


----------



## Mordacain

Lagtastic said:


> This sums up my thoughts extremely well.



Not sure if I totally agree as I know Sony is just playing to the base and leaving it up to the publishers isn't the same as the "no DRM" they touted at E3, but it's a damn funny picture.


----------



## Sicarius

No DRM on Sony Games is still "no DRM".

It's the same as Microsoft saying, " Microsoft games will be priced at $59.99."

The publishers can decide to do whatever they want.


----------



## Mordacain

Sicarius said:


> No DRM on Sony Games is still "no DRM".
> 
> It's the same as Microsoft saying, " Microsoft games will be priced at $59.99."
> 
> The publishers can decide to do whatever they want.



But they didn't say "on Sony games." They made a blanket statement at E3 and didn't really mention publishers doing their own thing, which is kind of my point.

It's not like Sony is telling publishers "If you want to publish on the PS4 platform, you can't include DRM." However, their presentation at E3 makes it look like that is what they are doing. It's effective, and I'm not really saying I'm against it, I just realize it for what it is, a total PR play.

Sony is getting lauded as the savior of gaming for basically holding the status quo when it comes to DRM / used games.


----------



## Mordacain

Found a little context on what I am referring to:

Sorry, PlayStation 4 Games May Still Carry DRM - Forbes


----------



## texshred777

I don't see the issue, frankly.

Their games won't have DRM. Third party publishers can do what they will with THEIR IP. Honestly, I'm not a fan of DRM but if other companies want to use it that's their right and it would be wrong for Sony to make demands to the contrary. 

MS on the other hand is fabricating an entire infrastructure. Very different, in my opinion.

I get what you're saying, though.


----------



## Mordacain

texshred777 said:


> I don't see the issue, frankly.
> 
> Their games won't have DRM. Third party publishers can do what they will with THEIR IP. Honestly, I'm not a fan of DRM but if other companies want to use it that's their right and it would be wrong for Sony to make demands to the contrary.
> 
> MS on the other hand is fabricating an entire infrastructure. Very different, in my opinion.
> 
> I get what you're saying, though.



It's really not all that different in my opinion. Microsoft's infrastructure was developed with publishers' involvement.

Sony is basically not adding the inverse as a condition in their licensing agreement. They absolutely could if they wanted. That's really what it looked like they were promising at E3; that they were throwing down the gauntlet at publishers in the interest of the consumer to have no DRM on the system, ever.

Just so everyone is clear where I'm coming from: I'm not saying Sony is doing anything wrong or that they shouldn't take the opening MS gave them.

I just find it funny that Microsoft put them in a position where they get all of this positive press and consumer sentiment for essentially doing nothing different


----------



## Osorio

This is probably the best exposition anyone will care to make on why Sony doing nothing different is actually something meaningful and important:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7533-PS4-Doing-Nothing-Meaning-Everything

I don't particularly care for Jim on a lot of subjects, but he has gotten most, if not all, of this XB1 vs PS4 deal "right".


----------



## Mordacain

venneer said:


> This is probably the best exposition anyone will care to make on why Sony doing nothing different is actually something meaningful and important:
> 
> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7533-PS4-Doing-Nothing-Meaning-Everything
> 
> I don't particularly care for Jim on a lot of subjects, but he has gotten most, if not all, of this XB1 vs PS4 deal "right".



Yea, I usually don't agree with him much either and in general find him pretty abrasive, but that one is definitely a fun watch. I do have to say he brought up a couple of points I hadn't really thought about myself.

Honestly, I didn't really have a problem with Microsoft's DRM as it was (and that should be patently obvious from my comments defending them in the XB1 thread) but their comments after the presentation at E3 have almost made me feel like a bit of jackass for even defending them prior to E3.

I'm just hoping that the publishers have taken note at the consumer outcry and step back from the DRM cliff.


----------



## The Reverend

Mordacain said:


> I'm just hoping that the publishers have taken note at the consumer outcry and step back from the DRM cliff.



I took out the most salient part of your post because I wanted to sort of think in writing about this whole issue, and I love the metaphor of the cliff.

On one hand, publishers, and by extension developers, could stand to make a lot more money benefiting off of the used game market. We'll ignore piracy of console games because it's virtually a non-issue. We've heard the mantra from other industries facing a loss of potential revenue that more money for them means better things for us. 

On the other hand, consumers don't seem to appreciate the complex, often invasive and sometimes impractical solutions being taken by publishers to protect their interests. We're very verbal, especially in the video game arena, about what we like and don't like. It's possible that later this year we'll actually see whether we put our money where our mouths are.

Who wins? If it's six years down the line, will Microsoft's developers have more resources to create better games, or will Sony's apparently neutral policy mean that third-party developers are willing to make less to appeal to a wider audience and hopefully make up the difference that way? And in where are we in all this? 

I guess only time will tell how successful Microsoft will be with this approach. It will also be the only way to tell if publishers and developers getting more money actually means better products. If the history of capitalism has anything to say about it, that outcome is doubtful. We also don't know how many publishers will create their own DRM on PS4 games, though we do know it won't be as wide-ranging due to Sony's stance at the moment. 

My prediction is that while consumers will be irritated, DRM is here to stay in some way, and that we'll learn to accept it. The game industry bubble is too large and well-oiled to let gamers exist without bulldozing them where it wants to go, and very few of us will outright refuse to enjoy video games on principle.


----------



## flint757

Mordacain said:


> Honestly, I didn't really have a problem with Microsoft's DRM as it was (and that should be patently obvious from my comments defending them in the XB1 thread) but their comments after the presentation at E3 have almost made me feel like a bit of jackass for even defending them prior to E3.



I'm right there with you, although, there are some factors I'm still okay with (albeit I would rather not have them) and I was more or less defending them on principle as some of the rumors were truly ridiculous/ pure speculation only. Now that they are official people have every right to complain including me.  It's their responses that have put the last nail in the coffin for me.


----------



## Osorio

Thought I would share this: PS4 Grabs 95% Of Consumer Votes After Amazon Ends Poll Early

Can only hope that sales will actually reflect this, but that prediction of 3 to 1 I made earlier is not seeming so far-fetched now.

Also: http://www.playstationlifestyle.net...ne-ratio-launch-guaranteed-version-sells-out/ (same news, different site. Slightly different wording).


----------



## Sicarius

a co-worker reserved both consoles the other day.

Local gamestops are limited to 10 XBones and 20 PS4s.

Microsoft may be trying to pull a Ninetendo and start a mad purchasing craze on the 'Bone?


----------



## Repner

Amazon UK is still has The Dark Sorcerer as a game up for preorder


----------



## goherpsNderp

Repner said:


> Amazon UK is still has The Dark Sorcerer as a game up for preorder



Amazon US also has some weird game listings for PS4, as well as a lot of games that have been confirmed to be coming to PS4 for a while now. (ie: Wolfenstein is still only showing PC/PS3/360 when it's been known to be coming to nextgen for a while now.) There's also a lot of games that were barely mentioned and they have preorders up, yet games announced months ago still aren't available to preorder. (Diablo 3, Destiny, etc.)

I don't work for Amazon, so it's not like I know how the process works, but it seems fairly simple for them to toss some BS release dates up with some BS prices, and reuse the box art from the other console versions and call it a day while they wait for the official info to come in. That's how they do it with everything else.


----------



## Sicarius

Repner said:


> Amazon UK is still has The Dark Sorcerer as a game up for preorder


Thought that was a game and a tech demo?

Anyway, I want Minecraft on my PS4 dammit.


----------



## Repner

I thought so as well when I first saw it, but they've since clarified that it's just a 12 minute video. I saw that people in the forum on amazon said they tried to tell them and got ignored anyway.

You don't get charged until the fictional game gets shipped anyway, so no harm done, unless they ship an empty box.


----------



## goherpsNderp

the Dark Sorcerer is just a tech demo, and won't be a game. Quantic Dream likes creating these tech demos to demonstrate the quality they want to achieve in the next game they create. they released one before Heavy Rain that was essentially a woman auditioning for a part in a show, then another after Heavy Rain that had a robot woman that wanted to be human. Beyond Two Souls is their game coming out in October for PS3, so that one is supposed to be close to the quality of the robot woman tech demo.

so whatever they come up with on PS4, if it gets anywhere NEAR what we saw in Dark Sorcerer it should look amazing. keep in mind, they surpassed the casting call tech demo with the actual Heavy Rain game, so fingers crossed they do the same with this one.


----------



## Bekanor

Can anyone shed a bit more light on the region-free aspect of PS4? I'm just wondering if I buy a PS4 from the states for cheaper than they are here, will it run on 240V (most consumer electronics are multi-voltage these days). Will it connect to US servers exclusively? Furthermore, if I buy US games on the cheap, will they too only connect to US servers?

It kind of seems to pointless to make things region free if you're still going to be essentially region locked by the networking infrastructure.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

funny how the *"xbox one sucks"* thread is 3x bigger than this one lol.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Bekanor said:


> Can anyone shed a bit more light on the region-free aspect of PS4?


 
All I really know offhand is it was announced as a counter to the Xbone's originally announced plan to be locked in such a way that it will only be useable _period_ in a set list of countries, ie if you had one in the US or the UK you'd be fine, but if you bought one in, say, Poland, you'd be SOL and just have a very expensive paperweight.

Microsoft has backed off on that, though, so Sony not having that baffling restriction doesn't really give it a heads up anymore.

I have no idea if it's region locked in any other way, though, like being able to play Japan-only games on a US system, or connect to US servers from Aus or whatever.


----------



## Bekanor

Grand Moff Tim said:


> All I really know offhand is it was announced as a counter to the Xbone's originally announced plan to be locked in such a way that it will only be useable _period_ in a set list of countries, ie if you had one in the US or the UK you'd be fine, but if you bought one in, say, Poland, you'd be SOL and just have a very expensive paperweight.
> 
> Microsoft has backed off on that, though, so Sony not having that baffling restriction doesn't really give it a heads up anymore.
> 
> I have no idea if it's region locked in any other way, though, like being able to play Japan-only games on a US system, or connect to US servers from Aus or whatever.



Well it's probably a zero sum gain buying one from Amazon give that their shipping is always ridiculous to Australia and I would probably end up paying more than what it would cost to buy one here. 

Might pre-order one with my tax return, unless I get enough back to put a new E-II in striking distance. Of course I really could use a new desk and a new monitor. Decisions decisions.


----------



## tacotiklah

I'll just leave this here for PS4 fan's entertainment:


----------



## TheFerryMan

ghstofperdition said:


> I'll just leave this here for PS4 fan's entertainment:




also, quick note. All the DRM and online locks are being fixed with a day one patch. so what's to say that they won't decide to pull another 180 and go back to their old policies? couple that with the fact that you agree to not be able to take a class action lawsuit against them when you agree to your TOS and you have something wonderfully evil.

I can't wait for the Xbox Skynet to take over, i welcome our DRM overlords.


----------



## Steinmetzify

Snip:


The Reverend said:


> The internet consists solely of prepubescent boys with an affinity for hate speech if online play is any kind of a population sample. Or else my favorite, Nerdy Guy Who Cares Too Much. You hear him smashing shit when his K/D ratio is shat on, talking about how a microsecond lag just ruined his clan standing or something.


 
This.....cmon, is it really so hard to just be a tiny bit polite and have fun with it? I usually buy whatever COD comes out, and then hit MP...for about 3 days. After that, the 13 year olds with the falsetto screaming works my nerves.

I have to laugh at NGWCTM...it's really a little sad to me. Really? You're going to break something you own because someone that hooked into the online game YOU signed up to play isn't populated with world class experts? I can appreciate someone throwing their all into something, but online gaming shouldn't be it.

I remember playing a COD team deathmatch with my brother one time....I'd never really gotten into it, but he talked me into buying a mic and hooking up at night while my wife and daughter were busy.....we're jamming along, calling out enemy locations and blasting away, just having a good time....and then someone on our team started screaming at us to shut up. I couldn't believe it.....this dude actually had his TV on, had a mic, and didn't want anyone to talk. At ALL...just wanted everyone to be quiet so he could play. 30 year old guy, whatever....he got blasted and rage-quit.

This is the mentality of online players in my experience.....and it makes it not fun. I'll still play online, but I friggin mute EVERYONE anymore....and I pretty much only play by myself. I'm a married guy with two businesses to run; I play once in a great while for fun, not because it's the whole world to me.


----------



## Mordacain

So despite the fact that I will probably wind up buying both systems and will likely play most cross-platform stuff on PC, I found out my local gamestop had 8 preorder slots left for the PS4 so I went ahead and put one in:





Granted, not really sure if I'll keep my reserve and pick it up yet or not. I'll make my decision once it gets closer to release I guess and see if a major 1st party product gets announced.


----------



## KevHo

One of the main reasons I have stuck with being somewhat exclusive to XBOX was due to the seemling lack of competitiveness with online gamers on PSN. I have to say though that I see myself going the PS4 route with all of the recent detials coming to light on Microsoft's future plans.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA




----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

PS4 Gamescom conference is starting soon.


----------



## Osorio

That BMW on the GT6 concept part was KILLER. True Batmobile if I ever saw one.

EDIT 1: 
Oh shit, Borderlands 2 for Vita. Nice. Official Vita price cut as well, including reduction on memory cards. Very nice. Might finally get one now for the maybe 3 games that I think would be cool.
Some true indie onslaught going on there... They must have announced at least 8 titles by now.

EDIT 2: 
*November 15 NA* and *November 29 in EU.* 

Hope I got that right. And FVCK, I miss this goddamn console by THREE days. I'll be leaving NY in November 12th. SHIT.


----------



## MFB

99% sure they DID announce the launch date as November 13th


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Nope. They didn't yet. Should be very soon though.

EDIT: November 15th for the US release.


----------



## Osorio

I'm pretty sure on the 15th one, since it was the one that pissed me off. I almost couldn't quite catch the 29th over my screaming agony. But alas, both were right... There are some tweets from the press to confirm.

If it was November 13th I would be even MORE pissed than I already am... 

Such a shame. It will probably take me a year to be able to buy this thing now since I'm going to loose the launch.


----------



## MFB

Gaaah, I was so god damn close. SO CLOSE YOU FOOLS DON'T EVEN KNOW IT!

Oh well, I'll be camping out that night to get my copy and it will be GLORIOUS.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I was honestly hoping the rumors of it being released in October were true. Oh well.

Still no official Xbox One release day?


----------



## Osorio

I don't think there is any word out yet. But I'm admittedly a terrible source of Xbox news.

... I just don't care for it 

I've been reading conflicting reports on MS's presentation. Some say there will be none and others say it will be tomorrow. So we will probably have word on a release date very soon. If anything, the one consistent pattern MS has shown so far is to react very directly to everything that Sony does.

EDIT:
http://www.gamespot.com/events/gamescom-2013/microsoft-gamescom-2013-conference-6413265/

It seems odd however; this thing looks like they are in a comedy club. 
No mention of a date is given.


----------



## mikernaut

I wasn't overly impressed by Sony's presentation. The only thing that got my attention was "Rime" as I'm a huge fan of ICO I couldn't believe how much this new game is going for that vibe so it seems.

Rime PS4 Trailer (HD) - YouTube


----------



## Osorio

I too was fairly interested in "Rime". There definitely is a Team ICO vibe there... The only other one to catch my eye was what little they showed of "Everybody's Gone To The Rapture", which was almost nothing, but enough for me to believe that something really cool could come out of it.


----------



## Curt

So, as huge a nerd as I am, I record gameplay, do livestreams, and all that other nerdy game capture stuff, and I am not too sure if the PS4 will have HDCP permanently enabled like the PS3. On the PS3 you could get around it by using the component out, but there is only HDMI on the PS4.

Sigh...


----------



## Carrion Rocket

If I wasn't saving up to buy a car I'd have already pre-order and paid in full for the PS4. The only thing that worries me about it is the hard drive space. Is it going to be a proprietary HDD or will they keep the 2.5 inch drives so you can format an off the shelf HDD for more storage?


----------



## 7 Dying Trees

Carrion Rocket said:


> If I wasn't saving up to buy a car I'd have already pre-order and paid in full for the PS4. The only thing that worries me about it is the hard drive space. Is it going to be a proprietary HDD or will they keep the 2.5 inch drives so you can format an off the shelf HDD for more storage?


From what I saw of the specs, you can replace the hard drive in the PS4 same as the PS3


----------



## 7 Dying Trees

...and I have a PS4 preorder as well. Looking forward to it, will still keep the PS3 though, as I love that and it's still going strong!


----------



## jwade

I'm pretty sure I won't even bother buying a ps4 until early next year. GTAV is going to be more than enough game for the next year or so, and by the time I snag a ps4, all of the hardware/software quirks will be mostly ironed out.


----------



## goherpsNderp

for those of you looking forward to Deep Down, word has it that it will be playable at Tokyo Game Show in a few weeks. also rumors about a Sony version of the Oculus Rift headset being announced there too.


----------



## Osorio

For the people who were asking about this earlier:

Microsoft to release the Xbox One on November 22 - GameSpot.com


----------



## Sicarius

Awesome to see that James is a PS3 guy.

I have my PS+ membership set up and ready to go, but I won't be getting the system until next year when Infamous Second Son comes out.


----------



## 7 Dying Trees

Oh yeah, GTA V on preorder too, kind of wish it was PS4, but I'm guessing there'll be a new installment for next gen consoles coming out in a year or two. I hope.

On another note, can't sell the PS3 as I've discovered I am perma addicted to skyrim it seems...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

According to the developers of Galak-Z, the PS4 remote will work with a PC without any software needed, and the touch pad will work a lot like a laptop mousepad.

LevelSave.com The PlayStation 4's Dualshock 4 Will (Reportedly) Work on Computers | LevelSave.com

So, if you don't plan on getting the PS4, the DS4 seems to be a good alternative to the XB360 or XBOne remote for PC play, especially with the touchpad and since the XBone remote seems to not work with a PC at launch. I also grew up with the DS/DS2, so I'd love to get my hands on one if the retail version works on PC.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Its happening.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

^^I want to smell the box. Is that creepy? 

I really hope some pre-orders open up before release. I didn't have any money when they came around but now that I have a better job I wanna get a pre-order in.


----------



## Don Vito

TheDivineWing22 said:


> ^^I want to smell the box. Is that creepy?


The insides of those boxes usually smell great. There's this foamy packing material in them some times that gives off this fresh industrial smell. Like opening a fresh pack of trading cards, but amplified by x10.

I'll bet that whole factory smells great. I should really find a job at one of those places.


----------



## Repner

TheDivineWing22 said:


> ^^I want to smell the box. Is that creepy?


I want to stroke it.


----------



## Repner

Don Vito said:


> The insides of those boxes usually smell great. There's this foamy packing material in them some times that gives off this fresh industrial smell. Like opening a fresh pack of trading cards, but amplified by x10.
> 
> I'll bet that whole factory smells great. I should really find a job at one of those places.


Well at least you've got your job interview sorted.



Employer: "Why would you like to work here?"

Don Vito: "Oh, its the smell."

Employer: "......hmm...
...
...
...that's a pretty good answer actually."


----------



## Azyiu

Despite the lack of awesome games (IMO) at launch, I am still very excited about the PS4 console. I think while I might not get it immediately in Oct., I will get mine maybe early in 2014.


----------



## Tyler

I didnt get a pre order in time, so I'll wait until christmas time or so and try to pick one up. Watchdogs looks incredible so im not worried about the small amount of launch games


----------



## Sicarius

My local wal-mart had signs up saying they had another pre-order starting on the 24th or so for the XBone, I saw similar signs for the PS4, but didn't check for a date.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Release date for Japan is February 22. Knack will be bundled for free and I THINK the PS camera, but I'm not sure.


----------



## CrushingAnvil




----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

http://www.computerbild.de/artikel/cbs-News-Playstation-4-7712087.html

Showing how to replace the hard drive. In German, by the way.



















And a size comparison against the other Playstations.


----------



## Carrion Rocket

Is the HDD still in FAT32 format?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

No clue. Not much mentioned about it yet, just that it's replaceable.


----------



## MFB

Doesn't the PS4 come with a 500GB HD standard? What the hell kind of person needs more than that for gaming? Installing every game you own onto there is still worth about 80 games or so (assuming it's a 5GB game + system software takes up around 20GB)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

According to Sony, they actually average at around... a lot more than that.

Killzone is over 50GB.


----------



## MFB

I now Assassin's Creed II is only like, 4GBs since I downloaded it not too long ago, and I've installed a couple games onto my 360's HD and they weren't that big; but 50GBs for a game? ....ing hell.


----------



## The Reverend

Uncharted 3 was something like 40 GBs? I have about ten games on my HD and I've still got quite a bit of space. I imagine wealthier or perhaps just more dedicated gamers would have to either get a monster HDD or just stick with discs.


----------



## texshred777

So the question for me now is, PS4 or trip to San Diego for Comic-Con? Decisions...


----------



## Señor Voorhees

texshred777 said:


> So the question for me now is, PS4 or trip to San Diego for Comic-Con? Decisions...



Hands down, Comic-Con. I fully intend to get both the new Xbox and the PS4, but not for a year or two. First generation consoles always suck large quantities of ass. Lots of bugs and stuff to iron out on top of very few worthwhile titles for the first little while.

Comic-Con is just all around dandy.


----------



## texshred777

Señor Voorhees;3769783 said:


> Hands down, Comic-Con. I fully intend to get both the new Xbox and the PS4, but not for a year or two. First generation consoles always suck large quantities of ass. Lots of bugs and stuff to iron out on top of very few worthwhile titles for the first little while.
> 
> Comic-Con is just all around dandy.


 
Yeah, I'm tempted to get a PS4 but the experience of both San Diego and Comic-Con is winning.


----------



## Osorio

Not that most people care, but:

PS4 will retail for 4000 R$ here in Brazil. That's about 1800 american bucks. It's actually more expensive than flying to miami, buying the console there, and getting back here. Even after paying all possible taxes on everything. Importing from Amazon, paying all taxes upfront, is about half the price...

PlayStation 4 will cost $1,850 in Brazil - Destructoid

Massive Damage! PlayStation 4 Will Cost $1850 In Brazil - News - www.GameInformer.com

PS4 To Cost $R 4,000 In Brazil: Sony Announces PlayStation 4 Launch Date And Price, Brazilian Gamers Outraged

Cool stuff. Microsoft just made a gazillion moneys.

Counting that the Xbone costs about 1100 american bucks here, there is simply no justification for the, adequately nicknamed, PS4K's price. At all. 

There was one particular rumor about all of this that was intriguing: Some people have been saying that the price has been driven ridiculously high "on purpose" to drive consumers to alternate buying methods. Apparently, Sony wasn't able to strike the deal they wanted with the government, so they drove the price sky high. Importing, even with all the taxes, pays the government less money than it would by getting the console here, as is.
I talked about this with my fiancee, who works in exports / imports and deals daily in foreign and domestic economics, and she agrees that this is actually quite likely. A very interesting strategy if nothing else. It surely is the ONLY explanation I can see that is not pure greed (and, honestly, I'm all for companies making money, but this just doesn't line up with Sony's global positioning).

So. Yeah... Cool times. Now I just need to know the new Apple Mac Pro MSRP so I can complete my technologic-indused-heart-attack cycle for the year.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

Señor Voorhees;3769783 said:


> Hands down, Comic-Con. I fully intend to get both the new Xbox and the PS4, but not for a year or two. First generation consoles always suck large quantities of ass. Lots of bugs and stuff to iron out on top of very few worthwhile titles for the first little while.
> 
> Comic-Con is just all around dandy.



I have no idea why you'd want to go to Comic-Con. You'd be surrounded by autistic, socially awkward Dr. Who cosplayers.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

Osorio said:


> Not that most people care, but:
> 
> PS4 will retail for 4000 R$ here in Brazil. That's about 1800 american bucks. It's actually more expensive than flying to miami, buying the console there, and getting back here. Even after paying all possible taxes on everything. Importing from Amazon, paying all taxes upfront, is about half the price...
> 
> PlayStation 4 will cost $1,850 in Brazil - Destructoid
> 
> Massive Damage! PlayStation 4 Will Cost $1850 In Brazil - News - www.GameInformer.com
> 
> PS4 To Cost $R 4,000 In Brazil: Sony Announces PlayStation 4 Launch Date And Price, Brazilian Gamers Outraged
> 
> Cool stuff. Microsoft just made a gazillion moneys.
> 
> Counting that the Xbone costs about 1100 american bucks here, there is simply no justification for the, adequately nicknamed, PS4K's price. At all.
> 
> There was one particular rumor about all of this that was intriguing: Some people have been saying that the price has been driven ridiculously high "on purpose" to drive consumers to alternate buying methods. Apparently, Sony wasn't able to strike the deal they wanted with the government, so they drove the price sky high. Importing, even with all the taxes, pays the government less money than it would by getting the console here, as is.
> I talked about this with my fiancee, who works in exports / imports and deals daily in foreign and domestic economics, and she agrees that this is actually quite likely. A very interesting strategy if nothing else. It surely is the ONLY explanation I can see that is not pure greed (and, honestly, I'm all for companies making money, but this just doesn't line up with Sony's global positioning).
> 
> So. Yeah... Cool times. Now I just need to know the new Apple Mac Pro MSRP so I can complete my technologic-indused-heart-attack cycle for the year.



I'm sure American forumites would gladly send it to you as a gift if you pay-pal'd them 399 USD


----------



## Repner

Osorio said:


> Not that most people care, but:
> 
> PS4 will retail for 4000 R$ here in Brazil. That's about 1800 american bucks. It's actually more expensive than flying to miami, buying the console there, and getting back here. Even after paying all possible taxes on everything. Importing from Amazon, paying all taxes upfront, is about half the price...
> 
> PlayStation 4 will cost $1,850 in Brazil - Destructoid
> 
> Massive Damage! PlayStation 4 Will Cost $1850 In Brazil - News - www.GameInformer.com
> 
> PS4 To Cost $R 4,000 In Brazil: Sony Announces PlayStation 4 Launch Date And Price, Brazilian Gamers Outraged
> 
> Cool stuff. Microsoft just made a gazillion moneys.
> 
> Counting that the Xbone costs about 1100 american bucks here, there is simply no justification for the, adequately nicknamed, PS4K's price. At all.
> 
> There was one particular rumor about all of this that was intriguing: Some people have been saying that the price has been driven ridiculously high "on purpose" to drive consumers to alternate buying methods. Apparently, Sony wasn't able to strike the deal they wanted with the government, so they drove the price sky high. Importing, even with all the taxes, pays the government less money than it would by getting the console here, as is.
> I talked about this with my fiancee, who works in exports / imports and deals daily in foreign and domestic economics, and she agrees that this is actually quite likely. A very interesting strategy if nothing else. It surely is the ONLY explanation I can see that is not pure greed (and, honestly, I'm all for companies making money, but this just doesn't line up with Sony's global positioning).
> 
> So. Yeah... Cool times. Now I just need to know the new Apple Mac Pro MSRP so I can complete my technologic-indused-heart-attack cycle for the year.


Holy shit!!


----------



## Splenetic

Oh man......the kind of computer i could build with $1850 right now.... Just thinking about it makes me drool lol.


----------



## Osorio

^ Indeed, my fellow gentlemen... In-fvcking-deed.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

In the meantime I just bought a Vita, for the future remote play and...WOW, it's a little jewel.

I bought the pack with 10 games and a memory card and I'm a PS+ subscriber, so I got already 14 games to play...Wipeout, Uncharted GA, LittleBigPlanet, Gravity Rush and Street FighterxTekken among them.

I had to hurry since I wanted the model with the OLED screen, because I can't wait to play the PS4 games through Vita ^___^


----------



## AndruwX

Ps4 will cost 1850$ in brazil?
Here in Venezuela Ps3 cost 2110$, so Ps4 will be pretty ....ing expensive.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

What was the price of PS3?
Anyway guys...import it and give the mid finger to your Governments  LOL


----------



## Negav

Why don't you guys buy it on the internet and work out the shipping? Try to import it, cut the middle men. Or wait some time for the time to go down or a second version to come in.


----------



## Osorio

Rumor has it that the PS3 was 7000 BRL on release here (but it wasn't official. that was the price you could find on gray markets). In today's currency exchange, that amounts to a whooping 3200 USD (most likely less at the time, probably in the house of the 2500). But I honestly wasn't paying any attention at the time, as I never considered getting it here.

Since you guys are asking: Personally, I haven't bought a console here since....... ever. I haven't actually realized this before. Cool stuff. Anyway: My parents brought all, with the exception of the PS3, my consoles from overseas during business trips and stuff. The PS3 I bought myself when I was in New York on 2008.
I never had ANY plans of buying the PS4 here. I frankly have no idea why people wanted to get it locally. I read the PS Blog BR, where the price was announced, and a lot of the comments range from "I wanted to support the local industry" to "It's convenient". I don't get either of those. As my fiancee said, it makes no sense for Brazil to overtax products that we don't actually make, it is just making life harder and it is protectionism done wrong. I will take no part in it. Since I can travel and buy shit outside, I will do so. Pretty much the only thing I get locally is food and LARGE electronics, like TV and etc... Everything that exists within my "studio area" (monitors, speakers, computer, rack units, musical instruments) was bought in the US of A, where it generally cost about 1/4 of the price.

Honestly, I'll probably wait for a price drop AND hardware revision to get the PS4. As someone else has probably already mentioned, first generation consoles are generally a pain, and I have a backlog the size of China, even more so with PS Plus and being a grade A trophy whore (though I'm trying to work on that). I'm in no rush for this thing. At all.


----------



## MesaBeno

Osorio said:


> Not that most people care, but:
> 
> PS4 will retail for 4000 R$ here in Brazil. That's about 1800 american bucks. It's actually more expensive than flying to miami, buying the console there, and getting back here. Even after paying all possible taxes on everything. Importing from Amazon, paying all taxes upfront, is about half the price...
> 
> PlayStation 4 will cost $1,850 in Brazil - Destructoid
> 
> Massive Damage! PlayStation 4 Will Cost $1850 In Brazil - News - www.GameInformer.com
> 
> PS4 To Cost $R 4,000 In Brazil: Sony Announces PlayStation 4 Launch Date And Price, Brazilian Gamers Outraged
> 
> Cool stuff. Microsoft just made a gazillion moneys.
> 
> Counting that the Xbone costs about 1100 american bucks here, there is simply no justification for the, adequately nicknamed, PS4K's price. At all.
> 
> There was one particular rumor about all of this that was intriguing: Some people have been saying that the price has been driven ridiculously high "on purpose" to drive consumers to alternate buying methods. Apparently, Sony wasn't able to strike the deal they wanted with the government, so they drove the price sky high. Importing, even with all the taxes, pays the government less money than it would by getting the console here, as is.
> I talked about this with my fiancee, who works in exports / imports and deals daily in foreign and domestic economics, and she agrees that this is actually quite likely. A very interesting strategy if nothing else. It surely is the ONLY explanation I can see that is not pure greed (and, honestly, I'm all for companies making money, but this just doesn't line up with Sony's global positioning).
> 
> So. Yeah... Cool times. Now I just need to know the new Apple Mac Pro MSRP so I can complete my technologic-indused-heart-attack cycle for the year.




I can't wrap my head around this decision. To me, it's akin to Microsoft's original policies regarding Xbox1


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

This'll probably explain why the XBOne is so cheap compared to the PS4.

Xbox One será fabricado no Brasil, aponta Anatel - Jogos - UOL Jogos

TL;DR; Brazilian XBOnes will be made in Brazil, so no import tax.


----------



## Osorio

I know how it may look like that is the answer from the outside, but nope. That is not it. In fact, that circumstance only enhances the hilarity of the whole situation.

The math for import taxes varies a bit by state, but in general, the price of the Xbox One is EXACTLY what it should be, paying all taxes. About 2200 BRL. I'm not saying that the fact has no impact in cost, I just think it is being reverted to the consumer in the way that we (the consumers) would want. It's not really a "it's cheaper because it is being made locally" sort of deal, it is more a "it is not as expensive as it could be because it is being produced locally". You may call it semantics, but as a brazilian resident, I see a lot of difference...
Importing an Xbox One from amazon is STILL cheaper than buying it locally, that's how it has always been and I don't really see a future where this will change anytime soon. Sony pricing simply made no sense at all, in any way, whatsoever.

Supposedly, Sony made some keynotes today in some expo here... I'll look on about it and see what they had to say about the whole thing, but honestly, I think the theory I previously presented (about Sony simply giving a FANTASTIC ".... you" to our government is the most likely scenario. I just wish they had done it in a less absurdly mentally challenged way).

EDIT: http://blog.br.playstation.com/2013/10/21/gamers-brasileiros-nos-ouvimos-voces/

It's in portuguese but there is a neato graphic that is absolutely full of bullshit. They really ARE clinging to the taxes thing, even though everyone knows how it works by now, and that the price simply couldn't be that high because of taxes... Pretty sad actually. I laughed all my lungs out at that "- 200-ish BRL as PlayStation Discount" bit. Good stuff.

Also funny to see how both Sony and Retail stores are double dipping on that price. The original console price already has, obviously, a profit margin, but they add another one here. As someone pointed out on the comments, you basically get 3 consoles: the actual one, one for the Retail profit and one for the Sony Brasil branch. Cool stuff. They are basically admitting that they are charging about 40% profit on the thing; I'm not against profit but this is insane. I prefer to believe my theory, honestly... At least in that light I can still respect those people.

Another cool thing the commenters have been bringing up is that IT SIMPLY DOESN'T ADD UP. The thing about taxes is that they apply, period. Right now, the PS3 is manufactured locally, but it took a while, and in that while, the PS3 was going for 250 USD and being imported for about 1.400 BRL. It just doesn't add up.

*NOTE:* I'm justing moving this conversation along because I think it is hysterical and it doesn't hurt to get people informed, even if it doesn't directly concern them, but I'm not personally complaining... Of all the people that live here I'm probably one of the LEAST affected by this price, policy and overall bullshit. I'm loving this just as much as I was loving the Xbox One "release month party" earlier this year. I'm sitting here, with my pop-corn, watching this train wreck.


----------



## axxessdenied

MFB said:


> I now Assassin's Creed II is only like, 4GBs since I downloaded it not too long ago, and I've installed a couple games onto my 360's HD and they weren't that big; but 50GBs for a game? ....ing hell.



LOL... it has nothing to do with the actual amount of gameplay you are receiving. It has more to do with the fact that higher resolutions will eat up a lot more space. If PS4 games will support 4k resolution than you are looking at higher resolution cinematics and MUCH higher resolution textures. Adds up fast.


----------



## Osorio

axxessdenied said:


> LOL... it has nothing to do with the actual amount of gameplay you are receiving. It has more to do with the fact that higher resolutions will eat up a lot more space. If PS4 games will support 4k resolution than you are looking at higher resolution cinematics and MUCH higher resolution textures. Adds up fast.



An incredibly relevant article, for those interested in this debate:

Why Killzone Shadow Fall is almost 40GB (it used to be 290...)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

EDIT: Ninja, but it's cool to see devs taking out those intro splash screens.

Also, the PS4 can use 2.5'' HDDs up to 12.5mm, so 1.5TB HDDs are an option.


----------



## MesaBeno

So soon I can taste it! Finally paid off my pre-order entirely! Now just need money for FIFA14, Assassin's Creed IV, and an extra controller...this system is gonna be sa-weet.


----------



## bouVIP

Not sure why they would release the controller so early, but got mine~ now to wait


----------



## Osorio

Massive FAQ up on the PS Blog:

PS4: The Ultimate FAQ &#8211; North America &#8211; PlayStation.Blog


According to them, this:



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also, the PS4 can use 2.5'' HDDs up to 12.5mm, so 1.5TB HDDs are an option.



is a mistake. Actual measurement is 9.5mm. They say nothing about SSD...


ALSO:

Gamestop is selling Shadowfall early, for whatever reason as well: Killzone Shadow Fall out at Gamestop now, but you can't play it yet

And Target is having a buy 2 get 1 free deal on PS4 launch games: Report: Buy 2 PS4 launch games, get 1 free at Target


----------



## MFB

2 weeks baby!

Anyone else going to a midnight launch for their console? Mine's half paid off so you're damn right knowing I'll be at one.


----------



## Repner

MFB said:


> 2 weeks baby!
> 
> Anyone else going to a midnight launch for their console? Mine's half paid off so you're damn right knowing I'll be at one.


Lucky. 29th for Europe. Strange how Japan gets it last, considering it's their company.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Repner said:


> Lucky. 29th for Europe. Strange how Japan gets it last, considering it's their company.



Supposedly they're waiting for more Japanese games to be released.


----------



## The Reverend

I decided not to get one at launch simply because I'd pretty much be broke after buying just the system. Smart decision, you know? Responsible.

Lost my phone last weekend. Call up my mom, who lives in a different city now, and ask her what to do. She says to stop being a 25 year old baby and get my own plan. I think she has a point, so I walk into a T-Mobile store. Walk out embarrassed about my credit score, with a $400 hole in my pocket. 

Should have just got the PS4, .... building credit.


----------



## Osorio

Repner said:


> Lucky. 29th for Europe. Strange how Japan gets it last, considering it's their company.



As far as I've seen from report of TGS and other such articles, Japan simply doesn't give a single shit about next-gen. It's simply not a thing people are excited about, unlike the next Monster Hunter or Pokemon game. 
Console gaming is supposedly fantastically dead, with most people going for portables. I sort of get it, if the rumors are to be believed, the kind of game the "core japanese audience" craves (those being the MH and Pokemon thing, visual novels and arcade oddities) works just right on those devices...

It's not like next-gen will provide the much needed processing power to push all those still images from Hyperdimension Neptunia.

Also, it would probably take a 2nd, 3rd and 4th coming of Jesus, all in one week, to make Sony lose their home turf to MS. I don't buy the "geographical bias" (yes, let's say that) angle, because Japan has, since the arrival of american expeditions in the 1700-ish's, been somewhat influenced by american culture... One of their number one sports is BASEBALL for crying out loud... I just think the X1 itself might as well have been called "USA 1" and it doesn't really seem to appeal anywhere else.

my  anyway. The "delay" in delivering at home seems completely rational, albeit unusual.


-----
Completely unrelated to the above: I'm sort of bummed about the lack of music playing capabilities. It doesn't play audio CDs and the custom game soundtrack thing people have been asking for millennia seems to be hidden behind a pay wall... Truly, I would see no use for either feature, as my gaming console is just that... I don't really use it for anything else, and I have little problem to have the game playing on the console and some music from the stereo or the computer... But alas. Feels like a massive missed opportunity for some integration and good will.
On the other hand... Everybody asked for a straight up GAMING CONSOLE, so I get we get what we asked for? Sad face.


----------



## Azyiu

For me, guess the PS4 will mainly just be a BD player, as I'm watching a ton of movies more so than I'm playing games these days.


----------



## Carrion Rocket

bouVIP said:


> Not sure why they would release the controller so early, but got mine~ now to wait



It's not uncommon for games and accessories to be released before the console. I remember a couple of games for the PS1 being sold weeks before the console actually went on sale.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

You can actually use the PS4 contoller with some games on PS3.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

[masturbation intensifies]


----------



## Jonathan20022

Literally couldn't contain myself, time to go cancel my preorder and get some games for this bad boy  I had $250 put down towards the console, but now I can at least get a few titles on launch day instead of just playing a single game!


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Whoa, nice, dude.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

Jonathan20022 said:


> Literally couldn't contain myself, time to go cancel my preorder and get some games for this bad boy  I had $250 put down towards the console, but now I can at least get a few titles on launch day instead of just playing a single game!



I have to remind myself that that competition wasn't even available to me but I'm so ....ing slutted  THAT'S SO ....ING AWESOME DUDE. DAMN IT.


----------



## Osorio

Jonathan20022 said:


> Literally couldn't contain myself, time to go cancel my preorder and get some games for this bad boy  I had $250 put down towards the console, but now I can at least get a few titles on launch day instead of just playing a single game!



So actual people really actually win these things? Color me fully surprised.

Congratulations on a fantastic win, man!


----------



## Jonathan20022

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Whoa, nice, dude.



Thanks man haha, so excited!



CrushingAnvil said:


> I have to remind myself that that competition wasn't even available to me but I'm so ....ing slutted  THAT'S SO ....ING AWESOME DUDE. DAMN IT.



That's a shame man, but yeah I'm incredibly excited to get this! I had planned on buying it anyways but it's a nice surprise to not have to bahahaha.



Osorio said:


> So actual people really actually win these things? Color me fully surprised.
> 
> Congratulations on a fantastic win, man!



I was insanely skeptical as well, mainly because the Vita competition they had last year was pretty fruitless and a lot of people got messages that they won, but didn't. But I called and confirmed, they're shipping it out soon!  Thanks man!


----------



## MFB

Congrats bro 

Good to see those things are legit and not just "BUY OUR SHIT FOR A CHANCE AT WINNING THAT THING YOU WANT!"


----------



## the fuhrer

Damn dude, I have been eating so much Taco Bell just on the chance I might win. Guess I know what is for lunch haha.


----------



## The Reverend

F--K YOU

F--K YOU

F--K YOU

I've always laughed at promotions like that as a way for companies to just lube people up and f--k the cash out of them, but here I am, on a niche instrument internet forum, talking to the winner of one. 

You've just destroyed my worldview, my sanity, and my dreams.


----------



## Osorio

The Reverend said:


> You've just destroyed my worldview, my sanity, and my dreams.



RIGHT!? The only way this could be more impossible is if he played 11 strings...


----------



## Repner

Motherf*cker!! Well done!


----------



## Jonathan20022

Bahahaha, thanks guys! Try the free daily online entry. You don't have to buy the food to win it, and people have reported winning it through the free online entries also! I just happen to like a good Gordita


----------



## narad

Jonathan20022 said:


> Literally couldn't contain myself, time to go cancel my preorder and get some games for this bad boy  I had $250 put down towards the console, but now I can at least get a few titles on launch day instead of just playing a single game!



No way...you get a PS4 *and* you had taco bell!? Doubly jealous.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Jonathan20022 said:


> Bahahaha, thanks guys! Try the free daily online entry. You don't have to buy the food to win it, and people have reported winning it through the free online entries also! I just happen to like a good Gordita



Just tried it. Blast my no luck.


----------



## Carrion Rocket

The Wal-Mart in town had the new CoD for PS4 stocked, but I didn't buy it cause I haven't bought any CoD brand new since MW2. I didn't see any controls though but one of the sales associates said they'd gotten them in, but they didn't say anything about the consoles though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The accessories and some games or available, but the consoles won't be until the 15th.


----------



## Carrion Rocket

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The accessories and some games or available, but the consoles won't be until the 15th.



I know that, but if they don't have any consoles in the back already then they probably had a limited number they could order. Anything high volume, high demand comes in at least two weeks prior to going to the sales floor. I used to work for a different Walmart. And to he honest, the store I was in isn't know to have their shelves fully stocked. Most likely because the store manager "loaned" a few grand to a close friend.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

A new estimate: probably getting my PS4 not too long after the middle of January. Third shipment pains


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Console teardown, image album, and a video.

See What's Inside the PlayStation 4 With These Exclusive Photos | Game|Life | Wired.com
PS4 teardown - Imgur
Watch Our Exclusive Teardown of the PlayStation 4 | Game|Life | Wired.com


----------



## MFB

Anyone snagging Ghosts for PS4? With the release being next week, I'll pick it up most likely, but I might grab Shadow Fall.


----------



## bouVIP

PS4 games are out and now we just have to wait until Friday!


----------



## goherpsNderp

Picked up KZ, Knack, a DS4, a camera, and a Rocketfish PS4 stand at BB.

Ready for my Launch Edition PS4 to arrive Friday afternoon.


----------



## MFB

Snagged "Knack" and "Shadow Fall" on Sunday, and will be grabbing "Black Flag" as well

Anyone know if the midnight openings at Gamestop are going to be just for picking up preorders/if there'll be a separate line for those with preorders? I don't want to deal with all the 100+ idiots rushing there for the 20 or so extra the store will be getting when I have one GUARANTEED there for me.


----------



## SpaseMoonkey

MFB said:


> Snagged "Knack" and "Shadow Fall" on Sunday, and will be grabbing "Black Flag" as well
> 
> Anyone know if the midnight openings at Gamestop are going to be just for picking up preorders/if there'll be a separate line for those with preorders? I don't want to deal with all the 100+ idiots rushing there for the 20 or so extra the store will be getting when I have one GUARANTEED there for me.



My local gamestop has you show up between I want to say 6-9(10?) to get it all setup. Finish paying if needed, but when you leave and are going to pick it up at midnight. They actually give you a number for a group and a time frame that they will allow that group in the store. No need to be waiting at midnight if your group is for say 1am. Just show up 10m early and get ready to go in!


----------



## Osorio

Bunch of reviews showing up for PS4 and relevant apps...

Here is one such article: PlayStation 4 Reviewed: Games and Hardware

I'm heartbroken about Knack. I really wanted it to be a cool game, if nothing else because Cerny himself sounds like such a passionate fellow about it. At least it has been mixed, GameInformer gave it a better standing:

Bringing Old-School Platforming To Next-Gen - Knack - PlayStation 4


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Knacks getting reamed a bit (and I agree about that, but I heard Cerny had limited involvement with it), but Killzone seems to be doing well.


----------



## MrYakob

If you're looking to save time on launch day apparently you can download the day one update to a USB drive right now! 

http://www.destructoid.com/download-the-ps4-day-one-update-right-now-265588.phtml


----------



## Jonathan20022

The update was pretty quick. Taco Bell had it delivered to me at 8am this morning, pretty crazy.

So far it's really cool, my games are coming in Friday but I've been playing some free to play stuff. Black Light Retribution is really fun to play and reminds me of COD quite a bit, gonna give Warframe a spin and Knack as well. I'll let you guys know how I feel about Knack, it's been getting mixed reviews which was upsetting at first but you'll never know how these games play until you play them yourself.

And the PS Store is SUCH a relief to use now, smooth and painless in comparison to the PS3 one.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

For anyone that cares about resolutions, apparently the retail version of CoD Ghosts will only output 720p on *single player only* because... god knows why. They're supposed to have a day-one patch for this so it outputs 1080p, plus it's supposed to fix the framerate issues.


----------



## goherpsNderp

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> For anyone that cares about resolutions, apparently the retail version of CoD Ghosts will only output 720p on *single player only* because... god knows why. They're supposed to have a day-one patch for this so it outputs 1080p, plus it's supposed to fix the framerate issues.



yeah and what's strange is that the review copies that have been under the microscope by game sites were running both MP and SP in 1080p. so IW's excuse is that they messed up a config file that the retail version shipped with, and are just going to fix it.

so it's a messy affair all around. hopefully they also fix the random framerate drops too, since that could affect competition in MP.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I can't find it, but Jeff Gerstmann from Giant Bomb talked to someone from Infinity Ward and they said they're going to patch the framerate issue.


----------



## SpaseMoonkey

So it begins.

Broken PlayStation 4 Systems - IGN

I'm trying to tell myself it's the dev kits that are doing it, not retail. Considering I know many people with the original PS3 and never had a single issue with it.


----------



## Osorio

^ yep.

Sony investigating reports of defective PS4s


----------



## MFB

The demo one at my work already froze last night and I think its only been installed for a day. Hopefully it'd not a sign of things to come/mine better not be one of them


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Wow, my will was starting to break and I was going to give in a get a console when they came out. Glad that this news is out because I surely won't for a while to make sure these stories go away.


----------



## ayaotd

Going to be working the midnight at my work tonight. I had one pre-ordered but I am letting my friend buy it. I just do not find the launch games appealing, I can wait.


----------



## ncfiala

Picking mine up tomorrow after work since I'm not going to brave the midnight launch with all the aspergers people running around flailing their arms wildly and talking pokemon. I'm only getting Shadow Fall for now. And then a week from tomorrow I'll be picking up my Xbox One. Going to be an expensive week.


----------



## DVRP

Lucked out, the 3 main places that sell them around me aren't having midnight sales. And they all open one after the other starting from 7,8 to 9. Really hoping I get one! 

Even if it were defective, at least there's warranty.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Don't have a link right now, but Sony is saying that the percentage of console that have been shipped (and recieved) and failed are 0.4%.


----------



## bouVIP

I am so worried about picking up my PS4 now >_<. I'd feel really bad and angry if I ended up with one of the bricks.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Good news: Kotaku fixed their PS4.

Was a bent pin in the HDMI port.


----------



## Mordacain

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Good news: Kotaku fixed their PS4.
> 
> Was a bent pin in the HDMI port.



When the problem was originally described I had a feeling that might be it.

Well I just got back from gamestop not too long ago to pick up my "place in line receipt". And looks like I am #37, joy.

Still not 100% sure if I am going to keep my PS4 or just sell it and pick it up again when there is something I'm really jazzed about.

Gotta say, Killzone does look pretty cool though


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The PS4 All Access Live is streaming and is on Spike right now.

EDIT: New Uncharted for PS4.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Wouldn't be worried about the PS4 failing in mass amounts, I played for 6 hours today. Streamed for 2, and watched some Netflix Shows for an hour. Not including just giving WarFrame a spin for hours yesterday, and cracking Knack open. 

Even so, Sony has an excellent warranty. I worked at the Sony Store in Boca Raton, FL and I handled some warranty swaps myself for PS Vitas and Laptops/PS3's and it was always easy to handle. We would order the hardware if we didn't have it in stock to swap out right then and there, and if we did you walked out with a new one. This was last year, but nothing's changed in their policies.

Also, Knack was absurdly disappointing resold it on eBay today. It was just dull and boring, enter a room fight enemies, move onto the next room with the same objectives. Just a poorly laid out platformer, could have been so much more if they made the game in the vein of Ratchet and Clank/Jak and Daxter. Some missed potential on a new IP that could have been a launch hit.

I don't recommend getting it, luckily Killzone is MUCH better.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

And thus, greatness is here*.




*Currently the east coast only.


----------



## Stealth7




----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

^


----------



## Stealth7

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ^


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yo dawg...


----------



## Jonathan20022

I love this Antonio Banderas thing


----------



## LLink2411

Played the Knack demo at a Best Buy. Yikes, that game was rushed. Also why is the touch pad a button as well? A _*really*_ sensitive button.


Anyways, I plan to get my PS4 come rent time in a few months when all the hype buyers need to sell their new impulse-buy at a loss to make ends meet. Using this method last year I was able to score a mit Wii U Deluxe with a few hundred dollars worth of games and accessories for over a hundred less than the price of just the system new.

I highly suggest many of you content with not getting a system day one to try this method as well and chime in.


----------



## ayaotd

ncfiala said:


> Picking mine up tomorrow after work since I'm not going to brave the midnight launch with all the aspergers people running around flailing their arms wildly and talking pokemon. I'm only getting Shadow Fall for now. And then a week from tomorrow I'll be picking up my Xbox One. Going to be an expensive week.


That scene is a lot different then the midnights up here!


----------



## Osorio

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> EDIT: New Uncharted for PS4.



....Really? I was so hoping SO MUCH they would drop this series.......


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Resolutiongate continues. 

AC4 Black Flag is currently outputting 900p native on the PS4. You need to download a patch to output 1080p.


----------



## bouVIP

Picked it up this morning and played for 2 hours before work. FIFA 14 is awesome on the PS4 and things load really quick.


----------



## MFB

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Resolutiongate continues.
> 
> AC4 Black Flag is currently outputting 900p native on the PS4. You need to download a patch to output 1080p.



It's been said by reps/journalists that there's going to be day one patches for like, everything, so once that installs everything should be good to go.

PS...


----------



## bouVIP

So this 
PS4 Day-One Update Is Breaking Things, EA Says

Didn't have any problems this morning after I updated and hoping it's the same when I get home...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The post is gone now.


----------



## MFB

Love how the three titles they list it hasn't affected are the three I happened to buy for launch


----------



## FallOfHumanity

My PS4 is fine. My mistake was buying COD:Ghosts.


----------



## bouVIP

SoundsOfAtlas said:


> My PS4 is fine. My mistake was buying COD:Ghosts.



Is it really that bad?


----------



## ncfiala

Just hooked up my PS4 and it looks like i get a lemon. I get no picture and no sound except for a few seconds here and there. I tried all the hdmi ports on my tv and my receiver and I tried a different hdmi cable that I know works and it still does the same thing. This sucks. Probably be months before I can get one. Maybe I'll just get my money back and screw it.


----------



## ncfiala

I unplugged and plugged in the hdmi cable several times and turned it off and on several times and now it works. What the hell. Now I'm nervous about it. I wonder if I should take it back anyway.


----------



## MFB

Had a slight issue when updating my firmware but it says everything is update now so  Black Flag runs smoothly, but I'm not sure what the weirdest thing to get used to is: that the sensor pad is also the start button or the new home screen layout.


----------



## Jonathan20022

I'll just post this instead of copying a massive wall of text on here.

PS4 Failure/Repair/Replacement PSA w/Story : PS4

tl;dr 

Wild Graphics Card glitch, turn around time is WAY too long for a repair. Got it replaced for free in under 5 minutes at the Sony Store I used to work at. 

If any of you have issues, stop by a Sony Store if you can I know we used to and they're keeping stockpiles of PS4's to swap out if there's any problems with launch ones. My old manager told me they had a ton to replace if needed, and they still had a mound of them up for sale.

And just saying, mine was fine for 2 days and crapped out, just keep an eye out.


----------



## Jzbass25

That sucks to hear about some failures, my friend who won one from taco bell says his has been fine luckily.


----------



## Chuck

And this is why I am waiting a few months before getting either of the new consoles


----------



## FallOfHumanity

bouVIP said:


> Is it really that bad?



I can't even begin to explain how terrible the game is. At least, in my opinion. The redeeming quality is the graphics, for sure. Aside from that you have AI that tracks you through walls, and the online play is nothing more than a bunch of kids who's only skill is pulling the trigger faster than you can.

I heard BF4 was a bit more "tactical" than COD, so I might go pick that up. Or, better yet, might just get Killzone. Killzone got fantastic reviews from many people.

Wolfenstein and Destiny can't come out fast enough.


----------



## TheDivineWing22

Nevermind. My page wasn't refreshed and everybody already posted the fix I typed.


----------



## Don Vito

I was walking around town last night, and all I heard was chatter about PS4. I think people are much more excited about it than Xbox this time around. The walf-awake girl at gamestop said Battlefield was running at 60fps on her's. Impressive!


----------



## FallOfHumanity

Don Vito said:


> I was walking around town last night, and all I heard was chatter about PS4. I think people are much more excited about it than Xbox this time around. The walf-awake girl at gamestop said Battlefield was running at 60fps on her's. Impressive!



Most games on PS4 will run at 60fps. COD does, BF does, Destiny is expected to, etc.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Need for Speed does, also, and I believe Diablo 3 will.


----------



## MFB

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Need for Speed does, also, and I believe Diablo 3 will.



Is D3 being ported to the PS4? I know it's on current gen consoles but I didn't figure they'd be bumping it up for next as well


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

It is. It's going to ship as the expansion version. They're going to allow you to transfer your characters from the PS3 version to the PS4 version, I believe.

As for the quality, I'm pretty sure it's also going to be 1080p/60fps.

EDIT: It's going to be called "Diablo III: Ultimate Evil Edition." It's going to support remote play, also. But the character transfer isn't reversible.


----------



## MFB

Sweeet, I wanted to snag D3 anyways so now I can just wait for this to come out and have it be even more glorious


----------



## ncfiala

Well I think I figured out the problem so I figured I'd post about it in case anyone else is having a similar problem. Rather than plug the hdmi into one of my receiver's hdmi passthroughs, I plugged it directly into my tv and it worked. I tried every hdmi on my receiver with two different hdmi cables and it wouldn't work. But on my tv it worked no matter what cable or hdmi input I used. I also know that the hdmi's on my receiver work because that's how I have my Wii U hooked up. It basically has to be one of these hdmi "handshaking" issues I guess. So now I just hook it up directly to the tv and hooked up my tv's digital optical out to my receiver and everything works great. Its been on all day and no problems.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

I am dying over here.

It's bad enough that you yanks get it on 14 days before we in New Zealand do, but I won't get mine until like January 15th. All I do is stay up at night watching game-plays, unboxings and initial set-up vids  

Why am I obsessing so much? This the first console I've ever bought for myself, and this is some next-next-level shit 

Someone post pics or something.


----------



## MFB

CrushingAnvil said:


> I am dying over here.
> 
> It's bad enough that you yanks get it on 14 days before we in New Zealand do, but I won't get mine until like January 15th. All I do is stay up at night watching game-plays, unboxings and initial set-up vids
> 
> Why am I obsessing so much? This the first console I've ever bought for myself, and this is some next-next-level shit
> 
> Someone post pics or something.



Ask and you shall RECEIVE! RECEIVE THE LIGHT MY BROTHER!


----------



## CrushingAnvil

MFB said:


> Ask and you shall RECEIVE! RECEIVE THE LIGHT MY BROTHER!



I just remembered I saw this on another page but you're a kind soul. Someone [winking at you, MFB] needs to post Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag screenshots - I saw a post saying the graphics are pretty much real-looking. I'll wait until it's bee discounted until I get it - platinum edition mahniggaz.


----------



## MFB

That's the first game I cracked open, and it does look REALLY damn good, like AC3 on steroids; but I don't have a clue how to post in game screenshots. I have some qualms with some parts of it but overall it's fun.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

MFB said:


> That's the first game I cracked open, and it does look REALLY damn good, like AC3 on steroids; but I don't have a clue how to post in game screenshots. I have some qualms with some parts of it but overall it's fun.



Colin (Guitarman7000, I think his handle is, although I don't see him post on here much - I just have him on facebook) posted a Battlefield 4 screenshot from the PSN. 

I think you can share to facebook and twitter and stream via a couple of different streaming services. 

"To take a screenshot simply hold down the share button until the chime rings and an icon appears in the upper right corner of the screen."


----------



## CrushingAnvil

_The Dark Sorcerer_







I hadn't even heard of this game.


----------



## FallOfHumanity

I will post some pictures and vids shortly of COD:Ghosts, as it's the only game I have, and I'm too poor / lazy to go and buy another game.

Edit: MFB, how are you like Killzone?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

For anyone curious about sales, it sold over 1 million in NA in the first 24 hours.


----------



## MFB

SoundsOfAtlas said:


> I will post some pictures and vids shortly of COD:Ghosts, as it's the only game I have, and I'm too poor / lazy to go and buy another game.
> 
> Edit: MFB, how are you like Killzone?



Haven't played it yet, only played Black Flag so far and even that's minimal. I've played like ...4 hours total since having it, probably gonna try it tonight though


----------



## CrushingAnvil

MFB said:


> Haven't played it yet, only played Black Flag so far and even that's minimal. I've played like ...4 hours total since having it, probably gonna try it tonight though



The thing that stopped me from getting AC4 was how it didn't really convey to me a next-gen. feel. It just looks like AC3 with better graphics. I guess it's good that it retains that AC feel, but I dunno


----------



## Mordacain

MFB said:


> Haven't played it yet, only played Black Flag so far and even that's minimal. I've played like ...4 hours total since having it, probably gonna try it tonight though





CrushingAnvil said:


> The thing that stopped me from getting AC4 was how it didn't really convey to me a next-gen. feel. It just looks like AC3 with better graphics. I guess it's good that it retains that AC feel, but I dunno



This is the only game I picked up and I am _really_ enjoying it. Granted, I haven't really played any other AC games besides the first one. I had toyed with getting it on PC but I figured what the hell. It looks pretty stunningly good to me and while I can agree that it doesn't look next-gen it looks damn nice and the comparison shots between all the various consoles definitely shows the game looking massively better on PS4.

Honestly I doubt it would look much better on PC (possibly nicer filtering and AA).

I think I might pick up Killzone as well so I have a multi-player title of some degree.


----------



## FallOfHumanity

One of the things I've discovered in COD:Ghosts is the "Extinction" mode. That is super fun. Been playing it all day. Can have a group of 4 people against AI controlled aliens that come in swarms. You have one main objective with a few side objectives. You have to survive all of the swarms.

Kinda like the survival mode in L4D2.

PS. Everyone should add me on PSN: Aborted-CA


----------



## Repner

CrushingAnvil said:


> _The Dark Sorcerer_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hadn't even heard of this game.


It was just a tech demo movie made by Quantic Dream, but for some reason, some of the retailers (Game in UK being one of them) have stupidly put it up for preorder. I'm sure they've been told several times by now that there's no actual game.


----------



## bouVIP

SoundsOfAtlas said:


> PS. Everyone should add me on PSN: Aborted-CA



Added. 

Add me too~

l_AzN_l


----------



## jwade

There is literally not one single game I would bother buy right now for PS4. I'm glad they delayed Watch Dogs and Driveclub until spring, by then, the newer production cycle of PS4s will have all their glitches ironed out, and we'll probably have a launch date for The Last Guardian finally.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

jwade said:


> There is literally not one single game I would bother buy right now for PS4. I'm glad they delayed Watch Dogs and Driveclub until spring, by then, the newer production cycle of PS4s will have all their glitches ironed out, and we'll probably have a launch date for The Last Guardian finally.



Eh, it's not so bad if your launch PS4 dies or is faulty a little bit past that date since it's bound to still be under warranty


----------



## MFB

CrushingAnvil said:


> The thing that stopped me from getting AC4 was how it didn't really convey to me a next-gen. feel. It just looks like AC3 with better graphics. I guess it's good that it retains that AC feel, but I dunno



Yeah, if you've seen the graphics for III, then you won't be too shocked and awed by BF's - I'm more impressed by the subtle touches they did like the darkening of clothes when you're in water and the transition from light to dark as you leave it, the lighting now looks better, little changes like that.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

MFB said:


> Yeah, if you've seen the graphics for III, then you won't be too shocked and awed by BF's - I'm more impressed by the subtle touches they did like the darkening of clothes when you're in water and the transition from light to dark as you leave it, the lighting now looks better, little changes like that.



The water looks ....ing incredible even in the PS3 version


----------



## Jonathan20022

I'm more than glad that graphics are plateauing, it'll at least make people focus less on that and put some focus back on proper storytelling/gameplay. I've been playing Battlefield 4 and it's really impressive, but it doesn't look leaps and miles better than say Uncharted 3, which I just went back and finished up on my PS3.


----------



## Osorio

Question for you guys that already have the console: Does it allows for multiple "main" accounts, like the PS3? I'm not talking about "child / sub" accounts.

I have about 4 accounts in my PS3 right now, all of them "master" accounts as far as I can see... 2 of them are associated with PS+ (1 for NA and 1 for EU UK). Does the PS4 supports this sort of set-up? Or is it more on the Vita side of things, which only allows for a single account, period?


----------



## soliloquy

for PS4 owners, i'm curious. now that the new PS4's network isn't free, does that mean you need to pay to connect to netflix, similar to xbox 360?


----------



## bouVIP

soliloquy said:


> for PS4 owners, i'm curious. now that the new PS4's network isn't free, does that mean you need to pay to connect to netflix, similar to xbox 360?



Nope you can more or less use all the PSN services except for playing games online without PS+ but you can play F2P games without PS+.

http://kotaku.com/what-you-can-do-without-a-paid-playstation-plus-account-1455089775


----------



## MFB

soliloquy said:


> for PS4 owners, i'm curious. now that the new PS4's network isn't free, does that mean you need to pay to connect to netflix, similar to xbox 360?



You don't pay to use Netflix on the 360, you merely pay Netflix for the actual service and the Live stuff was a fee for different services; if you want to look at that as paying for using Netflix, then technically you CAN, but it wasn't mutually linked like a "$7.99 fee for Netflix, and another $3.99 per month to use on your Xbox"

Same thing goes for the PSN now, you can use Netflix as long as you've got a subscription for both


----------



## FallOfHumanity

Osorio said:


> Question for you guys that already have the console: Does it allows for multiple "main" accounts, like the PS3? I'm not talking about "child / sub" accounts.
> 
> I have about 4 accounts in my PS3 right now, all of them "master" accounts as far as I can see... 2 of them are associated with PS+ (1 for NA and 1 for EU UK). Does the PS4 supports this sort of set-up? Or is it more on the Vita side of things, which only allows for a single account, period?



You have User Profiles on the PS4, and each profile can have a PSN account tied to it. For instance, my brother and I played COD split screen online, but we each had to have a PSN account. Couldn't have a "guest" account.


----------



## Osorio

I see. Thank you for your clarification!


----------



## Repner

MFB said:


> Same thing goes for the PSN now, you can use Netflix as long as you've got a subscription for both


You only need to pay for Netflix. PS+ isn't nessessary for anything other than online play and bonus stuff (free games, beta access, etc)


----------



## MFB

Repner said:


> You only need to pay for Netflix. PS+ isn't nessessary for anything other than online play and bonus stuff (free games, beta access, etc)



Ah OK, I thought with the addition of paying for PS+, it was basically getting rid of PSN as a free network and PS+ being ALL the online activity, basically an XBL clone but with PS's flavoring. I guess that's not the case though, which is good for those who don't do any online gaming but DO use their PS4 for Netflix/other streaming services.


----------



## soliloquy

/\ that was/is me with the ps3. i've only played online once with the last of us, got my ass handed to me 8 times in 2 minutes, then never went back on. i'm a solo player and it works for me


----------



## Jonathan20022

Killzone is really good, I can see myself playing it a bit more than Battlefield just because the engine seems more suited to the kind of shooter I would end up playing. Shame none of these have split screen though, so no local Multiplayer on any of my current games sans LEGO Marvel Superheroes, which is also brilliant.


----------



## MFB

Gotta say, for being a launch title, Killzone is pretty ...eh. There's a ....ton of lens flare (insert JJ Abrams joke) at all times so you can't see the Helghast when they're right in front of you, and at night it's no better because they just blend in with all the other futuristic blinky lights everywhere.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MFB said:


> Gotta say, for being a launch title, Killzone is pretty ...eh.



Sounds about right.

From what I've seen, though, it's not as bad as Knack or Ryse.


----------



## Repner

Just preordered my copy of Assassins Creed IV and Killzone Shadow Fall. Took me long enough.


----------



## MFB

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sounds about right.
> 
> From what I've seen, though, it's not as bad as Knack or Ryse.



It's more just that the storyline makes absolutely .... all sense



Spoiler



The Vektans use a planetary bomb to destroy Helghan down to it's core, BUT they undermine the entire point of this by splitting their own homeworld - Vekta - so that the Helghan can also live there on the opposite side of a wall. So why the .... would you bomb the place to begin with? It makes no sense. Then the Helghan start to fight back and kill Vektans and everyones like "Why are they doing this?!" and all I can think was "Are you ....ing kidding me?"


----------



## Sicarius

Is Knack this PS Gen's Lair?

(Which was a great looking game, and had a decent story, the controls were just horrid, even after they patched it so you could play w/o SIXAXIS)


----------



## CrushingAnvil

16 days until my Playstation 4 is available for me to purchase.


----------



## MFB

Sicarius said:


> Is Knack this PS Gen's Lair?
> 
> (Which was a great looking game, and had a decent story, the controls were just horrid, even after they patched it so you could play w/o SIXAXIS)



Just cracked open Knack, and I can safely say that without playing Lair, Knack is a blast. The controls work fine for it (although I wish there was more variation on the attack, its just square button every time), the story is ...decent since it's technically aimed at kids (I'm not too far in either), and I really enjoy the art style of it all


----------



## MrYakob

MFB said:


> Just cracked open Knack, and I can safely say that without playing Lair, Knack is a blast. The controls work fine for it (although I wish there was more variation on the attack, its just square button every time), the story is ...decent since it's technically aimed at kids (I'm not too far in either), and I really enjoy the art style of it all



Agreed, it's fun but I wouldn't say it's anything special. I'm playing it with my girlfriend who isn't really in to games and she seems to really enjoy it so far.


----------



## MFB

Yeah, I wouldn't say its a console mover and as a $40 title Id say worth it; but I'm cool with it as a launch title.


----------



## ERGonomic

KZ4!!! WTF happened!

Now dont get me wrong, the game is great. Graphics and online play are awesome.

but they eliminated two classes and recombined abilities!:

the scout is like a mix between the tactician and marksman.
the assault is a mix between the medic and infiltrator.
the support is like a mix between the medic, engineer, and tactician.

i was so confused at first when i threw it in, i didnt know what was going on.

i was a little disappointed to see such a restyling in everything from gameplay to class abilities. NOT TO MENTION NO VOICE CHAT!!! how you can play kz without it, you need team work!! i hope they fix it.

then, i became a bit intrigued, as the infiltrator disguise ability was probably the most annoying thing in kz3, and also sharing the abilities and choosing which to use is kinda like choosing perks.

anyway, just curious to see what others thought of the new killzone style.

its a great game tho. peace


----------



## Don Vito

ERGonomic said:


> NOT TO MENTION NO VOICE CHAT!!!


wtf

how is this even possible in 2013


----------



## ERGonomic

Don Vito said:


> wtf
> 
> how is this even possible in 2013


 turns out they are doing ALOT of updates including chat. i mean ranking, squads, parties, maps, and i cant even remember everything else. so they gave us a beta to make launch date, but they are fixing it. not cool to pay $60 for a beta without telling us, at least charge us $35-40 and say updates will complete game by XX date, or a free season pass or something. im pissed at sony for that cuz the only reason i got ps4 around launch was for killzone


----------



## Sicarius

you pay for a game, and the company supports the game after you purchase it.

You don't pay a discounted price just because the game needs updates and patches.

This is the world we live in: Game's are pushed out early with bugs and glitches and the devs just patches and fixes it later in the product's life cycle.


----------



## ERGonomic

sorry brotha, gotta disagree. if you read the article that i read (Killzone: Shadow Fall Developers Talk About The Next Update And Top 15 Feedback Items - MP1st) youd understand, this wasnt bugs and fixes. 

you pay $60, that should be operational, not still needed to be "constructed" or "in development". were not talkin about a patch. were talking about a game

they released a beta. we should have paid beta price. therefore, my original point still stands...very rock hard firmly


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So when the full game is released, do you pay per update? They're doing something similar with Killer Instinct.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

They pay the players as beta testers? Yes, I like this idea.


----------



## ERGonomic

Hey jazz, no. I beleive that everything will be released as a patche/s. No need to pay more. However, they do have a season pass available that I can't imagine for what considering the MP is only half done.


----------



## Osorio

This whole thing about patching, updating, DLC and Season Passes saddens me SO DAMN MUCH. And now, micro/macro-transactions as well. 

Goddamn, I miss the PS2... What a console.

Day 1 Patching (patching at all, really) and DLC is the main reason why I don't buy games early anymore...


----------



## ghostred7

When/if SW:Battlefront (III?) comes out...that may be the one that makes me switch consoles.


----------



## Sicarius

ERGonomic said:


> sorry brotha, gotta disagree. if you read the article that i read (Killzone: Shadow Fall Developers Talk About The Next Update And Top 15 Feedback Items - MP1st) youd understand, this wasnt bugs and fixes.
> 
> you pay $60, that should be operational, not still needed to be "constructed" or "in development". were not talkin about a patch. were talking about a game
> 
> they released a beta. we should have paid beta price. therefore, my original point still stands...very rock hard firmly




What about BF4? A game that's been out for a few weeks now, near 2 months, filled with stupid bugs and glitches, so much so, in fact, that EA and DICE had to stop development on the DLC runs and focus on just getting the game working. 

Clearly it's a game that was labeled as a Final Release when in reality it was a late Beta build.

Should everyone be refunded their money and only charged a "beta price"? No, because the industry doesn't work that way, but overly entitled, jaded gamers think they should be.

Pay for a game, you get what they've got at launch, and what ever they have planned for the future is for you to decide if you want to keep it or not.

Osorio:

Day One patches aren't a bad thing. They're supposed to help the players. The internet has allowed companies to release a game and fix the issues. Whereas before they'd release a game, and if it was buggy, you were ....ed. DLC isn't something you have to buy, nor are Mico-Transactions. Season Passes are just discounted bulk DLC purchases, again, nothing you're forced to buy.

Even if you buy a game now and play it on any current/next gen console, even if you wait, you're still going to have to download the patches. Unless you don't plug it in, you're just going to have to suck it up, or go to a pawn shop and buy the PS2 you love so much.


----------



## The Reverend

What did you guys do before every console was hooked up to the internet? Remember when bugs and glitches just existed, and you had to deal with it? How quickly we've forgotten, it would seem, that games would almost always ship with small errors (and sometimes not-so-small errors). 

I don't always agree with Sic, but he's right on with this. You guys also have to realize that while developers do a lot of QA testing, there's nothing that reveals errors in code like hundreds of thousands of people pouring hours into a game. Be glad that they can patch things, and that they don't make you pay for it.


----------



## Osorio

Man, I HATE that excuse that now they can patch stuff. Because that is simply not what actually happens. Small bugs always existed and still exist. The difference between NOW and THEN is that the bugs we have now, when all the patching is said and done, is pretty much what we used to have then, when there wasn't any patching and companies had to actually test their shit before asking for our money, or be ravaged in reviews for a broken game.

I see things in a different way, you can call it nostalgia glasses, I call it having standards. I don't personally buy games which I believe are broken, or that will only get fixed and be playable in a week. I don't buy and wait for it to get better. I want my stuff to function as it should out of the gate. Sue me. I don't enjoy beta testing shit unless I'm actually volunteering for the job. I will not pay to provide feedback.



> Be glad that they can patch things, and that they don't make you pay for it.



Be glad for what exactly? That games get gimped so stuff can be sold as DLC? Be glad that every game now demands endless patching instead of actually working out of the gate? I'm not too sure I am supposed to be glad about any of that. The fact that so many gamers just bend down and take it is what will kill this industry (paranoid hat on. Admittedly).

I just love gaming. It has been my hobby since forever. And the way I see it, it is going down in flames (except for indies). It is not a threat, it is not an act of rebellion, but I'm counting the days in which I will stop being "current" as far as games go. I was really psyched about it, but after some time to cool off, I don't think I will be getting a PS4 at all. PC gaming is just not for me, I don't think it is comfortable, neither is portable gaming. So yes, maybe, in the future, I'll be playing games 20 to 30 years old. Shitty graphics, shitty stories, sometimes shitty game play, but at least I will not be paying premium for all those things, and being treated like a beta tester in the process. I'm cool with that.



Sicarius said:


> Should everyone be refunded their money and only charged a "beta price"? No, because the industry doesn't work that way, but overly entitled, jaded gamers think they should be.



Yes. They should. This is not a jaded gamer thing. This is a consumer rights thing. The "industry doesn't work that way" because people are, for whatever reason, OK with being stepped on and treated like crap. As long as you take it, they will continue to push. The amount of freedom you have is the amount you are willing to fight for. I know that sentence is a vast exaggeration, but it doesn't make it false. People bought DLC when it was frowned upon, now we have gazillions of it. People will most likely buy into micro-transations, and we will soon have lots of it. People bought broken games, and now Day 1 patching is standard. EVEN ON CONSOLES ITSELF. Which they are cool about announcing a shitload of features but the console doesn't actually have a lot of them.

/rant.

I'm open to be proven wrong on this, by the way. 

Honestly, my cup of tea during the PS2 and PS1 era was JRPGs. I started to branch out later, but most of my collection is in that scene. As such, I don't know a whole lot about what was out there. Can someone point me in the direction of a "big" game that was fundamentally BROKEN on the PS2 or PS1? I'm talking about a big, high profile game, having breaking glitches with 60+% occurrence (like the first Batman Arkham had, with the grappling hook not working properly - I think that was actually 100% occurrence on the PS3). Or Assassin's Creed 1 failing to load up a city you were obligated to go to (also on PS3. Managed to recreate this glitch wit 100% rate as well. Just play the game without the patch). You know the stuff. Any high profile game that had equally shitty bugs back then? I honestly want to know, because people keep bringing this up, "what did you do when they couldn't patch stuff!?", but I have simply, honestly, never been into that situation.


----------



## Choop

The Reverend said:


> What did you guys do before every console was hooked up to the internet? Remember when bugs and glitches just existed, and you had to deal with it? How quickly we've forgotten, it would seem, that games would almost always ship with small errors (and sometimes not-so-small errors).



I dunno if it necessarily mattered as much when games weren't being played competitively online (talking about console gaming and single player pc here). Of course you don't want a broken piece of crap, but I can't really think of any time I encountered any game-breaking glitches pre-last gen console.



The Reverend said:


> Be glad that they can patch things, and that they don't make you pay for it.





Sicarius said:


> Pay for a game, you get what they've got at launch, and what ever they have planned for the future is for you to decide if you want to keep it or not.



I just think this is the wrong kind of mindset to have as a consumer.

Why is it weird to expect a game to be complete at launch? Obviously there will need to be fixes if bugs come up, and it's awesome that developers have that accessibility to their product. However a game shouldn't be presented as "done" and then shipped out in a practically broken state. I realize this happens, but it shouldn't be accepted as the norm.

It really would help gamers now more than ever to just wait until after a game comes out and research it hard post-launch, before spending any money. That would mitigate some heartache.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

Choop said:


> I dunno if it necessarily mattered as much when games weren't being played competitively online (talking about console gaming and single player pc here). Of course you don't want a broken piece of crap, but I can't really think of any time I encountered any game-breaking glitches pre-last gen console.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just think this is the wrong kind of mindset to have as a consumer.
> 
> *Why is it weird to expect a game to be complete at launch? *Obviously there will need to be fixes if bugs come up, and it's awesome that developers have that accessibility to their product. However a game shouldn't be presented as "done" and then shipped out in a practically broken state. I realize this happens, but it shouldn't be accepted as the norm.
> 
> It really would help gamers now more than ever to just wait until after a game comes out and research it hard post-launch, before spending any money. That would mitigate some heartache.



Didn't someone only just recently mention overly-entitled gamers like two posts back? 

You're expecting the game to have no bugs at all, which just isn't realistic. The reason the bugs aren't detected is because there aren't millions of people testing for the developers; it's people like us who find bugs and bring them to the attention of developers like DICE. If a game isn't beta-tested, you should expect bugs. With that in mind, BF4 Beta had a shitload wrong with it, but that's exactly why it was a beta version


----------



## Choop

CrushingAnvil said:


> Didn't someone only just recently mention overly-entitled gamers like two posts back?



Yeah, I quoted it.  (well, from that post, not that line specifically)



CrushingAnvil said:


> You're expecting the game to have no bugs at all, which just isn't realistic. The reason the bugs aren't detected is because there aren't millions of people testing for the developers; it's people like us who find bugs and bring them to the attention of developers like DICE. If a game isn't beta-tested, you should expect bugs. With that in mind, BF4 Beta had a shitload wrong with it, but that's exactly why it was a beta version



No I never said I was expecting for a game to have no bugs at all. By complete I only mean that there be as few bugs as possible. Being able to patch things later shouldn't be an excuse to release a game that clearly isn't ready. =\


----------



## ERGonomic

There's a big difference between a patch/fix, server errors/crashes, and an incomplete game that is still under construction/in development when its being sold.


----------



## Sicarius

I read the article that you posted. That's not a game that's "incomplete/in-development".

KZ is a game that they launched, and due to the reactions to the players they are looking at changing some things. 

Honestly, I'm completely ....ing okay that KZ doesn't have in-game chat. I don't want to hear a bunch of dumbass couch commanders telling me what to do, or hearing a bunch of children yelling over my TV. Making use of PSN's party-chat was an awesome idea, and people are using it. There are others that would also like to have in game voice, too.

That's the world we live in now, where a company can change the game and develop new features based on player feedback.

And, yes, it is weird to expect a completed finished game at launch. During the development phase a company will create a game, release Alphas, fix some bugs, release Beta, fix some more bugs and balance things better, and get to a point where they're okay with releasing it. 

The release date of a game is pretty important. They're not only creating content to entertain people, they also need to make money off of it. Games are expensive to make, and the "testing" phase never truly ends nowadays. Battlefield is the perfect example of this (for me because this is what I've been playing for the last year+) because they're lease bug fixes, and try to balance the guns in the game more and more to keep people entertained, and playing. New DLC content was available for those wanting to keep playing and be entertained, and keep playing something they love. DLC is there for any and everyone to buy, but the Devs and Publishers know that only the dedicated will get it. Not everyone cares about DLC, they just want a game to play for a little while before something else comes along. 

Expecting a game to be playable and work for the most part, is okay, but a expecting a more completed, very few bugs game just isn't feasible. While the nostalgics and the "VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET" people are out there claiming how terrible the industry is for just trying to bank roll on people, they're trying to beat other block buster AAA titles to market to get more and more of the market share while they can, and they can do this best by investing in one big game, and keep supporting it and it's players with DLC, content patches, bug fixes, server updates. To keep people coming back, and spending that money. 

WoW is a great example of this, how many times have they completed overhauled the experience of the game? At least every expansion? That's just more DLC that you don't need unless you want to reach the max level and raid and gear grind, and no one is making you get it. 


I'm not trying to get anyone to think like me, I just want people to be more realistic about where we are as gamers, and where the industry is as a business.


To get back on topic:

Destiny Launches on my birthday.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

Sicarius said:


> I read the article that you posted. That's not a game that's "incomplete/in-development".
> 
> KZ is a game that they launched, and due to the reactions to the players they are looking at changing some things.
> 
> Honestly, I'm completely ....ing okay that KZ doesn't have in-game chat. I don't want to hear a bunch of dumbass couch commanders telling me what to do, or hearing a bunch of children yelling over my TV. Making use of PSN's party-chat was an awesome idea, and people are using it. There are others that would also like to have in game voice, too.
> 
> That's the world we live in now, where a company can change the game and develop new features based on player feedback.
> 
> And, yes, it is weird to expect a completed finished game at launch. During the development phase a company will create a game, release Alphas, fix some bugs, release Beta, fix some more bugs and balance things better, and get to a point where they're okay with releasing it.
> 
> The release date of a game is pretty important. They're not only creating content to entertain people, they also need to make money off of it. Games are expensive to make, and the "testing" phase never truly ends nowadays. Battlefield is the perfect example of this (for me because this is what I've been playing for the last year+) because they're lease bug fixes, and try to balance the guns in the game more and more to keep people entertained, and playing. New DLC content was available for those wanting to keep playing and be entertained, and keep playing something they love. DLC is there for any and everyone to buy, but the Devs and Publishers know that only the dedicated will get it. Not everyone cares about DLC, they just want a game to play for a little while before something else comes along.
> 
> Expecting a game to be playable and work for the most part, is okay, but a expecting a more completed, very few bugs game just isn't feasible. While the nostalgics and the "VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET" people are out there claiming how terrible the industry is for just trying to bank roll on people, they're trying to beat other block buster AAA titles to market to get more and more of the market share while they can, and they can do this best by investing in one big game, and keep supporting it and it's players with DLC, content patches, bug fixes, server updates. To keep people coming back, and spending that money.
> 
> WoW is a great example of this, how many times have they completed overhauled the experience of the game? At least every expansion? That's just more DLC that you don't need unless you want to reach the max level and raid and gear grind, and no one is making you get it.
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to get anyone to think like me, I just want people to be more realistic about where we are as gamers, and where the industry is as a business.
> 
> 
> To get back on topic:
> 
> Destiny Launches on my birthday.



DESTINY IS THE REAL SHIT, MAN. 

Killzone looks cool, but Destiny is going to be amazeballs along with MGSV.


----------



## Matt_D_

The Reverend said:


> What did you guys do before every console was hooked up to the internet? Remember when bugs and glitches just existed, and you had to deal with it? How quickly we've forgotten, it would seem, that games would almost always ship with small errors (and sometimes not-so-small errors).
> 
> I don't always agree with Sic, but he's right on with this. You guys also have to realize that while developers do a lot of QA testing, there's nothing that reveals errors in code like hundreds of thousands of people pouring hours into a game. Be glad that they can patch things, and that they don't make you pay for it.



couple of things

- releasing games on ps2/xbox when you had no way of updating post ship was utterly terrifying. I've done it. I've also submitted code on the *day before* we went gold. that was fun. I almost hurled hitting submit.

games were a lot smaller too, they had a lot less people working on them, and as a result, they tended to have less bugs 

- launch titles are really up against the wall when it comes to a whole bunch of issues that consumers never see, and really dont need to see/care about. As a developer launch titles always have my sympathy, especially those who really try and push the hardware.

what im trying to say is, that pre-release hardware and SDK's are typically pretty patchy at best, terrible at worst. but you've still got to get 100+ people working on a title and somehow get it finished, and get it out of the door on time for a very hard release date.

you'll get final hardware and SDK's very very late in the piece, often things you were relying on being there get cut, SDK calls use more memory than was advertised, and all of this happens very very late in the development cycle and you just have to adapt and roll with the punches. 

Last gen, oblivion stood out as something totally insane to build on pre-release hardware, this gen you've got things like dead rising 3. 

Not that consumers need to care about this kind of thing, its a bit like talking about the orientation of springs in your couch cushions, you all just care whether its comfortable. But yeah, cut launch titles a little bit of slack, for now at least. if things dont solidify in a couple of months then totally grab your pitchforks.

The second round of titles post Christmas will really be the point we can start to judge where we're at with next next gen.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

With as much time and manpower as it takes to develop games these days combined with how friggin' huge and complicated they are now compared to in the past, I figure we've got three options:

1) Developers hire many, many, _many_ more playtesters and pay them to play the millions of in-game hours it'd take to catch all (or even just most) of the bugs, thus driving up the cost of games that already cost sixty goddamned dollars.

2) Companies stick with current staff numbers, but increase the amount of dev time so that they've got time to catch every bug, so games will take six to eight years to develop (considering that some games are patched for nearly that long and _still_ not finished).

or...

3) Devs can release buggy games in normal time frames for normal prices and patch them throughout the life of the game, like they're doing now.

EDIT: It's like that old engineering adage: "Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick two." Gamers whine when we don't get all three.


----------



## ghostred7

Even outside of games there are tons of similar "beta" issues. I've been working in the mobile telecomm industry since 2000 (back-end network engineer) and know several companies that simply can't replicate what real bulk usage does. This is applicable to new OSs, hardware, applications, wire technology, etc. The better/newer the tech and coding for it, the more is revealed during load. Gotta understand, things are so much more complicated for optimization now. A "simple" in-lab load generator won't replicate thousands of human possibilities.


----------



## The Reverend

Matt_D_ said:


> couple of things
> 
> - releasing games on ps2/xbox when you had no way of updating post ship was utterly terrifying. I've done it. I've also submitted code on the *day before* we went gold. that was fun. I almost hurled hitting submit.
> 
> games were a lot smaller too, they had a lot less people working on them, and as a result, they tended to have less bugs
> 
> - launch titles are really up against the wall when it comes to a whole bunch of issues that consumers never see, and really dont need to see/care about. As a developer launch titles always have my sympathy, especially those who really try and push the hardware.
> 
> what im trying to say is, that pre-release hardware and SDK's are typically pretty patchy at best, terrible at worst. but you've still got to get 100+ people working on a title and somehow get it finished, and get it out of the door on time for a very hard release date.
> 
> you'll get final hardware and SDK's very very late in the piece, often things you were relying on being there get cut, SDK calls use more memory than was advertised, and all of this happens very very late in the development cycle and you just have to adapt and roll with the punches.
> 
> Last gen, oblivion stood out as something totally insane to build on pre-release hardware, this gen you've got things like dead rising 3.
> 
> Not that consumers need to care about this kind of thing, its a bit like talking about the orientation of springs in your couch cushions, you all just care whether its comfortable. But yeah, cut launch titles a little bit of slack, for now at least. if things dont solidify in a couple of months then totally grab your pitchforks.
> 
> The second round of titles post Christmas will really be the point we can start to judge where we're at with next next gen.





ghostred7 said:


> Even outside of games there are tons of similar "beta" issues. I've been working in the mobile telecomm industry since 2000 (back-end network engineer) and know several companies that simply can't replicate what real bulk usage does. This is applicable to new OSs, hardware, applications, wire technology, etc. The better/newer the tech and coding for it, the more is revealed during load. Gotta understand, things are so much more complicated for optimization now. A "simple" in-lab load generator won't replicate thousands of human possibilities.



Fancy words for what I was trying to say.  

Thanks for making me look like a simpleton with your insider knowledge, guys!


----------



## MFB

I think the other thing people forget about bugs/glitches/patching is that you have to put them into two categories: game-breaking vs. just existant. For instance, with Battlefield 4, it's got dozens of bugs that fall in the former of game-breaking where-in it will ERASE YOUR DATA. Compare that to Ocarina of Time's glitch where you can kill Ganon faster with the deku stick than the Master Sword; both are technically glitches, but one is FAR worse than the other and you have to ask yourself, "Which would I rather take?"

Sure, some glitches are terrible and those are the one that devs immediately try and fix to make up for them happening and not catching before release (which I imagine they don't save data on their consoles and just have individual levels loaded on disks for play-tests, so that's how that bug went overlooked?) but shit like little exploits that add some character to the game, .... em, just let em exist.


----------



## flint757

It's a mixed bag as it is to be expected, but at the same time more than a few games are rushed leading to many of these glitches. As an example, Ubisoft is very guilty of this. I'll take them waiting a year for them to make both a competent game and one with fewer glitches. Usually the reason why I don't bother pre-ordering (barring me being impulsive ). 

I don't think a game with minor glitches deserve refunds, but belittling peoples arguments by dismissing them as 'entitled' is quite childish. There are instances of glitches, early releases, pay-to-play, DLC, etc. where the developers are arguably in the wrong and not the other way around. The fact that games can be patched swiftly and game development doesn't have to stop after release is awesome, but day 1 DLC and huge day 1 patches (Arkham Origins after installed had a 7GB patch ) is without a doubt insulting. Not being completely for this behavior does not make someone necessarily entitled. Hell, I find it annoying and I don't usually buy DLC's or games right away. Typically I wait until they are on sale.  So entitled? I don't think so as it has no effect on me whatsoever, JMO.


----------



## MFB

Off-topic from the raging "glitch" debate, but what's the deal with PS4 installing games on the HD when you first insert them? I tried playing the other day without the disc in the console, and it said, "No disc inserted" which lead me to wonder - what the .... is the point of the install if I can't play it without the physical copy? I'll probably go and delete the installed version of there to free up HD space (seeing as how I'm down like 100GBs already ) but it's absolutely useless unless there's something I'm missing


----------



## SpaseMoonkey

MFB said:


> Off-topic from the raging "glitch" debate, but what's the deal with PS4 installing games on the HD when you first insert them? I tried playing the other day without the disc in the console, and it said, "No disc inserted" which lead me to wonder - what the .... is the point of the install if I can't play it without the physical copy? I'll probably go and delete the installed version of there to free up HD space (seeing as how I'm down like 100GBs already ) but it's absolutely useless unless there's something I'm missing



I will give a great example as to installing the game and not needing the physical copy. I know this is what I would do!

1) Install the game.
2) Call up my friends and visit them to install the game at their place.
3) Trade the game in within under a week, get that top dollar trade value.
4) Repeat.

Then the only way I would keep the game is if I loved it. Its rare I think a game is that great. Last gen I want to say it was, The Last of Us, then Bioshock and Borderlands Series. Outside of that I just get roped into crappy ass CoD due to friends wanting to play it all the time. Heck I can't even get them to play BF3 when it was on PS+ for free, eh it's not the almighty CoD.


----------



## Osorio

MFB said:


> what the .... is the point of the install if I can't play it without the physical copy? I'll probably go and delete the installed version of there to free up HD space (...)



Fair warning: Deleting the data will only make the game install it again next time you boot it up (unless it was optional and you went out of your way to install it manually).

Also, the point is to improve load times, since Blu-ray is not exactly light speed and the files are getting huge. I always noticed some very significant improvements in loading times in games that were disc-reading heavy on the PS3.

I guess you must have skipped the PS3 and / or the 360? This is how it has been working for a while now. And it is ....ing infuriating.


----------



## MFB

Osorio said:


> Fair warning: Deleting the data will only make the game install it again next time you boot it up (unless it was optional and you went out of your way to install it manually).
> 
> Also, the point is to improve load times, since Blu-ray is not exactly light speed and the files are getting huge. I always noticed some very significant improvements in loading times in games that were disc-reading heavy on the PS3.
> 
> I guess you must have skipped the PS3 and / or the 360? This is how it has been working for a while now. And it is ....ing infuriating.



Neither of my X360s has EVER installed a game without me having to manually do it, nor did my PS3 if memory serves correctly. So basically, once I get like four more gamed my hard drive is filled, then what? Just deal with it?


----------



## Osorio

I don't own a 360 so don't know how it works (I just assumed it would be similar to the PS3), I do own a PS3 and I can safely tell you that almost anything will install directly on it. The cases that don't, or that have optional installs, are by far and large the minority (*in my experience*). But I haven't played a lot of "popular games", I don't give a single f*ck about call of duty or battlefield, for example. I know a few of the more high profile stuff just ran, like God of War 3 and Final Fantasy 13, for example. But that was not the norm for me.

Anyway... To answer your question: Yes. Pretty much. Delete old stuff. I remember it being widely agreed upon that the initial 500gb HD of the PS4 was an incredibly bad solution if game companies where going to start upping the resolution, and hence the install size. Promises of games occupying 50gb of space made some people rather quickly realize that going all digital would be an fantastically bad move (chief reason why there was a perceived, in my opinion, cluster.... when Sony announced that External Storage for game data would not be supported).


----------



## Xaios

SpaseMoonkey said:


> I will give a great example as to installing the game and not needing the physical copy. I know this is what I would do!
> 
> 1) Install the game.
> 2) Call up my friends and visit them to install the game at their place.
> 3) Trade the game in within under a week, get that top dollar trade value.
> 4) Repeat.
> 
> Then the only way I would keep the game is if I loved it. Its rare I think a game is that great. Last gen I want to say it was, The Last of Us, then Bioshock and Borderlands Series. Outside of that I just get roped into crappy ass CoD due to friends wanting to play it all the time. Heck I can't even get them to play BF3 when it was on PS+ for free, eh it's not the almighty CoD.



MS wanted to allow people to play installed games without the disc in the drive at first, but the reasons noted above is why they originally planned on such draconian policies regarding used games: because that's the only way disc-less play would ever work without the prospect of massive piracy. Naturally, people didn't like it, which is why they also reverted to the same "you can sell/trade your games but you'll need the disc in drive to play it" stance as Sony.


----------



## flint757

Osorio said:


> I don't own a 360 so don't know how it works (I just assumed it would be similar to the PS3), I do own a PS3 and I can safely tell you that almost anything will install directly on it. The cases that don't, or that have optional installs, are by far and large the minority (*in my experience*). But I haven't played a lot of "popular games", I don't give a single f*ck about call of duty or battlefield, for example. I know a few of the more high profile stuff just ran, like God of War 3 and Final Fantasy 13, for example. But that was not the norm for me.
> 
> Anyway... To answer your question: Yes. Pretty much. Delete old stuff. I remember it being widely agreed upon that the initial 500gb HD of the PS4 was an incredibly bad solution if game companies where going to start upping the resolution, and hence the install size. Promises of games occupying 50gb of space made some people rather quickly realize that going all digital would be an fantastically bad move (chief reason why there was a perceived, in my opinion, cluster.... when Sony announced that External Storage for game data would not be supported).



I see it more as an opportunity for developers to make games more efficient. Some of the best ideas come out when people are backed into a corner. Who knows, maybe they'll code better compression algorithms. 



Xaios said:


> MS wanted to allow people to play installed games without the disc in the drive at first, but the reasons noted above is why they originally planned on such draconian policies regarding used games: because that's the only way disc-less play would ever work without the prospect of massive piracy. Naturally, people didn't like it, which is why they also reverted to the same "you can sell/trade your games but you'll need the disc in drive to play it" stance as Sony.



The whole thing is silly. You haven't been able to install most games or software on multiple people's computers for years and they verify that with licenses and some form of DRM usually. If you want to run your game console like a computer then the same rules are going to inevitably have to apply.


----------



## Xaios

flint757 said:


> The whole thing is silly. You haven't been able to install most games or software on multiple people's computers for years and they verify that with licenses and some form of DRM usually. If you want to run your game console like a computer then the same rules are going to inevitably have to apply.



Oh I agree, absolutely. However, there's *always* been a difference in the mindset of console gamers versus PC gamers in which console gamers have always expected to be able to sell their used games. Back when DRM like CD keys became standard on PC games in the late 90s, many consoles were still using cartridges. PC gamers have long since accepted that some measure of DRM will always be necessary, even if we rail about the more draconian measures that companies like Ubisoft used up until quite recently where your choice was "either you're on the internet or you don't get to play." Based on the reaction that MS got though, it might be fair to say that, until the point in time when console gamers are ready to move to near-exclusive digital download for their content delivery like the PC has, they'll never embrace non-resellable game discs.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

MFB said:


> Neither of my X360s has EVER installed a game without me having to manually do it, nor did my PS3 if memory serves correctly. So basically, once I get like four more gamed my hard drive is filled, then what? Just deal with it?


GTA 4 did that on the PS3, I'm sure you've encountered this before.


----------



## Sicarius

It's the same on the XBONE, when you insert a game it installs it to the HDD. Can't play just off of the disk.

It was like that on a few PS3 games, too, I think Devil May Cry 4, and maybe SOCOM? Had to install to drive (wasn't the full game, but 5Gb or so). It's so the game can put information on to the drive, where it can be accessed faster, reducing load times or some such technical reason.

New Gen, they just want you to use the HDD and Disc, also, heard the Xbone doesn't actually support external HDDs.


----------



## MFB

I haven't actually since I played GTA once and hated it so I've never had it on PS. This was the first time I've ever had a physical game do a self-install the FIRST time I put it in the console.


----------



## Osorio

Of the top of my head, these are the games I own that will automatically install as soon as you pop the disc in (PS3):

- Borderlands 1 and 2
- Burnout Paradise
- Devil May Cry 4
- Dragon Age Origins
- Gran Turismo 5
- Metal Gear Solid 4
- Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2
- No More Heroes
- Resistance 3
- Tomb Raider: Underworld
- Yakuza 4

Upon realizing the actual size of the list, I fully admit I expected it to be a lot longer, however, I remind that this is only of the top of my head, and of the games that I own, physically. I have little doubt that I could expand considerably on this list if I were to actually sit down and check stuff. Nevertheless, I believe my perception may have gotten distorted on this because, truly, it is almost impossible to start up a game and having it simply PLAY on this damned machine. Pretty much every single time I put a disc in the tray for the first time, or open a newly downloaded game, there will be notification for an update. This is specially freaking tiresome on downloaded games, in my opinion.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

MFB said:


> I haven't actually since I played GTA once and hated it so I've never had it on PS. This was the first time I've ever had a physical game do a self-install the FIRST time I put it in the console.


God Of War?


----------



## MFB

joshuavsoapkid said:


> God Of War?



Didn't do it either as I recall, but it was a while ago so I might be wrong. I had: Killzone 3, God of War 3, Uncharted 1 & 2, and a few others I'm blanking on and like I said: none of them had done it. I had DMC4 (but on 360) and that didn't automatically install either.

OH well, I guess you just have to nut up and deal with it


----------



## flint757

They all install on the hard drive to some degree. Unless it was a setting I could turn off the first time I put any game in my PS3 it made me install a couple things first.


----------



## Repner

Luckily it's fast, and you can do it in the background now on PS4. Remember the original MGS4 required you to install before every mission, while showing you Solid Snake chain smoking?


----------



## Don Vito

Repner said:


> Luckily it's fast, and you can do it in the background now on PS4. Remember the original MGS4 required you to install before every mission, while showing you Solid Snake chain smoking?


_Remember to take a break and stretch every hour_ -Kojima-san


----------



## Azyiu

Don Vito said:


> _Remember to take a break and stretch every hour_ -Kojima-san



Did you mean THIS Kojima san? 

Kojima Haruna (AKB48)


----------



## CrushingAnvil

So I got mine earlier than expected today and I'm pretty excited, although Killzone Shadow Fall isn't really my deal. I feel like the HUD is poorly designed - I have trouble reading most of the shit on the screen (ammo count, objectives, etc.), and my TV is HD and like 40". Does anyone else have that problem? I like that it's not dumbed down for 14 year olds; it requires cognition. 

I'll just be over here waxing it to Destiny, MGS: V and a few other non-launch games. 

- going to try Blacklight Retribution in a bit.


----------



## MFB

CrushingAnvil said:


> So I got mine earlier than expected today and I'm pretty excited, although Killzone Shadow Fall isn't really my deal. I feel like the HUD is poorly designed - I have trouble reading most of the shit on the screen (ammo count, objectives, etc.), and my TV is HD and like 40". Does anyone else have that problem? I like that it's not dumbed down for 14 year olds; it requires cognition.
> 
> I'll just be over here waxing it to Destiny, MGS: V and a few other non-launch games.
> 
> - going to try Blacklight Retribution in a bit.



No, you're totally right which is why I'm trading mine towards Ghosts. Seriously, they don't even give you a health bar or TELL YOU that it's the glowing green light on the controller (and changes color when you get hurt)


----------



## CrushingAnvil

MFB said:


> No, you're totally right which is why I'm trading mine towards Ghosts. Seriously, they don't even give you a health bar or TELL YOU that it's the glowing green light on the controller (and changes color when you get hurt)



I bought my copy of Shadow Fall like over a week ago from an online store so I'm pretty sure I'm stuck with it, and trading it in is out of the question since they'll probably offer me a fiver and some pocket lint for it  I definitely want BF4 now - apparently Ghosts is crap.


----------



## Repner

CrushingAnvil said:


> I bought my copy of Shadow Fall like over a week ago from an online store so I'm pretty sure I'm stuck with it, and trading it in is out of the question since they'll probably offer me a fiver and some pocket lint for it  I definitely want BF4 now - apparently Ghosts is crap.


Problem there is BF4 is apparently broken beyond belief. Not a great time for FPS games.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

Repner said:


> Problem there is BF4 is apparently broken beyond belief. Not a great time for FPS games.



A friend of mine just told me it's fine and only suffers from the usual minor glitches/problems FPS's suffer from.


----------



## MFB

CrushingAnvil said:


> A friend of mine just told me it's fine and only suffers from the usual minor glitches/problems FPS's suffer from.



Does "minor glitches" constitute erasing all your saved game data a la BF4?


----------



## CrushingAnvil

MFB said:


> Does "minor glitches" constitute erasing all your saved game data a la BF4?





DICE & EA are so on to it.


----------



## Ralyks

So not to be a necrobumper, but this seems like the only place to post this.

Got my PS4 over the weekend. Username is Ralyks03. Got Madden and Ghosts (Which I only really got because a lot of my friends like CoD... But non of them have a PS4 or are willing to drive to me to place  ), as well as the free download of Don't Starve.

Really unsure of what to play next, but it seems like Killzone and Black Flag would be the choices out of whats available right now.


----------



## Repner

CrushingAnvil said:


> DICE & EA are so on to it.



As they usually have to be these days.


----------



## st2012

Ralyks said:


> So not to be a necrobumper, but this seems like the only place to post this.
> 
> Got my PS4 over the weekend. Username is Ralyks03. Got Madden and Ghosts (Which I only really got because a lot of my friends like CoD... But non of them have a PS4 or are willing to drive to me to place  ), as well as the free download of Don't Starve.
> 
> Really unsure of what to play next, but it seems like Killzone and Black Flag would be the choices out of whats available right now.



I found Killzone to be underwhelming personally but Black Flag was a blast from beginning to end.


----------



## MFB

Killzone was total bollocks and not worth the $60 I payed for it. Knack is a hoot to play although don't expect anything mind-blowing for story, and much like st2012 - I enjoyed Black Flag; a LOT more than I expected to be brutally honest.

I haven't turned mine on in probably a month just due to various circumstances, here's hoping for some new games around the corner since my next purchase is either NFS or nothing


----------



## Ralyks

Just, options seem limited right now. I think part of the reason is jumped the gun on getting a PS4 now instead of waiting is due to the Playstation Now announcement, which sounds... well, it just sounds plain swell.


----------



## Azyiu

Just me... I've decided to wait until something I reeeeeally wanted to play, say, Uncharted 4, before I would go out and get myself a PS4.


----------



## MFB

Azyiu said:


> Just me... I've decided to wait until something I reeeeeally wanted to play, say, Uncharted 4, before I would go out and get myself a PS4.



I got one out of basically convenience. I had some stuff to trade in at Gamestop anyways and I knew that the 360 wouldn't last forever and I would be getting a PS4 sometime so why not immediately? While there's no new games it'll still serve as a Blu-Ray player if I choose to buy some so it was a win situation.

For interested parties, here's the current game schedule for most of us:

Outlast - February 5th
Thief - February 25th
Metal Gear Solid V : Ground Zeroes - March 18th
Final Fantasy 14 - March 25th
Dying Light - March 31st
Elder Scrolls Online - June XX
Destiny - September 9th

TBA: Kingdom Hearts 3, Kingdom Under Fire 2, Metal Gear Solid: Phantom Pain, Final Fantasy 15


----------



## Jonathan20022

^ I had a moment of weakness and misread that as Final Fantasy 15 coming out this March. Damn near freaked at the thought of it coming so soon.

I literally cannot wait for this to come out.


----------



## Ralyks

Is FF14 another MMO? And how is it if anyone's played it?

Grabbed Resogun fo' free today. Actually really fun and visually pretty freaking sweet. Thinking of grabbing Warframe next.


----------



## MFB

Yeah, its another MMO Final Fantasty. I know it technically was finished at one point but it got HORRID reviews so they scraped it and started over I believe. Not sure how the new version is though


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I've seen a lot of love for ARR.


----------



## MFB

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I've seen a lot of love for ARR.



For the new one or when it originally was shown? I've only seen the previews/commercials, but it looks visually great


----------



## Ralyks

Looks like I'll be grabbing 14 then. Sweet. Hoping I can play some of the older Final Fantasy games when Playstation Now launches.

Grabbed Flower off the Playstation Store. Pretty sure this gagne is the gaming equivalent of meditation.


----------



## HUGH JAYNUS

Question for ye who have a PS4 already. I am getting a ps4 soon and I want to keep my ps3 also. I know I can use my psn on the 4. But my question is this:

Can you have your psn on both the PS4 & PS3 at the same time. Say today i play my 3. Tomorrow I play my 4. Will everything work as normal? I dont want to lose my online abilities on one in order to use the other.


----------



## Repner

METAL_WIZARD said:


> Question for ye who have a PS4 already. I am getting a ps4 soon and I want to keep my ps3 also. I know I can use my psn on the 4. But my question is this:
> 
> Can you have your psn on both the PS4 & PS3 at the same time. Say today i play my 3. Tomorrow I play my 4. Will everything work as normal? I dont want to lose my online abilities on one in order to use the other.


Yes you can. I was playing something on my PS4 while downloading something on my PS3 with no issues.


----------



## Sicarius

I got promoted at work, so I'm not full time.

PS4 and Infamous Second Son will be mine..


----------



## Ralyks

I feel like FFXV is what XIII Versus was suppose to be.


----------



## Repner

Ralyks said:


> I feel like FFXV is what XIII Versus was suppose to be.


I agree. It's way too big to be given a "spin off" sounding title, considering it has nothing to do with XIII other than being in the Fabula Nova Crystallis series. 

I'm still skeptical since I don't like what the recent FF's have become, but I do like the looks of this one. The world map coming back will be a welcome return after the restrictive nature of XIII.


----------



## tripguitar

MFB said:


> For the new one or when it originally was shown? I've only seen the previews/commercials, but it looks visually great


 
ARR refers to the new re-vamped version. i play it on ps3 currently. I think it's fantastic. on par with other top notch mmo's and has a pretty cool storyline too which alot of mmo's tend to half-ass. the environments look great, as you travel throughout the world it really feels like your visiting different places, where as other games like swtor (even though i liked it) or defiance looked generally the same from beginning to end.

the ps3 definitely cant handle large crowds though, and often times i have to stand in place waiting about 20 seconds for my quest-giver to pop up so i can complete the quest. the graphics werent so bad either until i saw screenshots from pc players... omg the game looks so much more beautiful!! other than that its just great though, i'm excited to see what the graphics look like on a ps4.


----------



## bouVIP

Ralyks said:


> I feel like FFXV is what XIII Versus was suppose to be.



XIII Versus was renamed to FFXV.


----------



## tranqx

I haven't touched my PS4 since it came out... hopefully the next coming months will change that with Second Sun and Watch Dogs.


----------



## Mordacain

tranqx said:


> I haven't touched my PS4 since it came out... hopefully the next coming months will change that with Second Sun and Watch Dogs.



Ditto. Barely touched mine other than to update the system software and download the free PSN game.


----------



## Repner

Mordacain said:


> Ditto. Barely touched mine other than to update the system software and download the free PSN game.


Same. I just got the PS4 version of Tomb Raider though, so I'll be getting warmed up again soon. The next few months are looking good at least.


----------



## goherpsNderp

Repner said:


> Same. I just got the PS4 version of Tomb Raider though, so I'll be getting warmed up again soon. The next few months are looking good at least.



Tomb Raider, Outlast, and soon Strider have successfully wrestled my attention away from my huge PS3 backlog.

TR is mind blowingly good. mechanics work really well, the environments are believable, and the sound design is top notch. taking my time with it because it's so nice to even look at.


----------



## Mordacain

goherpsNderp said:


> Tomb Raider, Outlast, and soon Strider have successfully wrestled my attention away from my huge PS3 backlog.
> 
> TR is mind blowingly good. mechanics work really well, the environments are believable, and the sound design is top notch. taking my time with it because it's so nice to even look at.



Yea, Tomb Raider is excellent. If I hadn't already played it on my gaming PC it would have been a definite play for me on PS4.


----------



## MFB

Same here.

I got it for a MASSIVE discount at work (literally $1) for 360 and it's a good game but I don't think it's worth having two copies of. Not to mention I'm more of a fan of Laura's 360/PS3 version than the one in the Definitive Edition (slight redesign facially but nothing extreme).

Is it true that if you have PS+ then stop the service you lose any games you got with it? I know Outlast is free this month for PSN+ users but I don't want to use my subscription then just lose it when it's up.


----------



## Mordacain

MFB said:


> Same here.
> 
> I got it for a MASSIVE discount at work (literally $1) for 360 and it's a good game but I don't think it's worth having two copies of. Not to mention I'm more of a fan of Laura's 360/PS3 version than the one in the Definitive Edition (slight redesign facially but nothing extreme).
> 
> Is it true that if you have PS+ then stop the service you lose any games you got with it? I know Outlast is free this month for PSN+ users but I don't want to use my subscription then just lose it when it's up.



Yea, you lose any games if you stop the service. I need to set mine up for the 12 month subscription...I'm still running 3 month sub from the E3 special months back.


----------



## The Reverend

I've gotta say, the free games for PS+ pisses me off. For the past six months, they've almost only released games I've purchased. I'm going to stop buying games if they continue pulling that shit. 

You can access your games again once you renew your subscription, though, MFB. I guess it would save you the hassle of downloading and installing it later if you did now, though that is of course assuming you renew.


----------



## MFB

That's the thing, at the moment I don't have time for online gaming especially not enough to justify the cost so I don't bother so I wouldn't want to renew it just for the occasional free game. Everything I do is single player.


----------



## Ralyks

Just got Tomb Raider through gamefly on PS4. I actually already beat it on 360, but it was so fun that I figured it was worth playing through again for trophies and to actually 100% the game.


----------



## eddygdk

Its beens so long since I've tuned on my PS4, i cant wait until infamous comes out!


----------



## cip 123

Guys, should i get a Ps4 now or wait a little bit? any point in waiting?


----------



## MFB

cip 123 said:


> Guys, should i get a Ps4 now or wait a little bit? any point in waiting?



Bigger library upon purchase, possibly more readily available than now although my work has seen an increase in numbers recently and more frequently; we used to get maybe six every month or so, now we'll get about ten in one day, then maybe five or six more a few days later too.

At the moment, I've got three games for it and only two of them I really care for (Black Flag and Knack). I've considered buying more games like Need for Speed but I keep putting it off due to school and nothing really grabs me yet or in general for video games at the moment (I just got Diablo 3 and still haven't cracked it open also because of school) so it might be worth waiting another couple months until Infamous, both Metal Gears, and some other games come out.


----------



## goherpsNderp

between retail games and downloadable titles, i think the PS4 has enough available right now to warrant a purchase- if not it definitely will by the beginning of next month with inFamous SS coming out friday and Mercenary Kings out on Apr 1.

i already have too much to play, between Thief, TR, Outlast, Towerfall, and now MGS Ground Zeroes. i need more time. O__O


----------



## Azyiu

goherpsNderp said:


> between retail games and downloadable titles, i think the PS4 has enough available right now to warrant a purchase- if not it definitely will by the beginning of next month with inFamous SS coming out friday and Mercenary Kings out on Apr 1.
> 
> i already have too much to play, between Thief, TR, Outlast, Towerfall, and now MGS Ground Zeroes. i need more time. O__O



Yep, I have been holding out... and the first title I wanted is inFamous SS. Hopefully Uncharted 4 will come out soon enough. Does anyone know any detail on U4?


----------



## Sicarius

It was announced, so looking forward to it soon isn't worth it.


I was never fond of the Uncharted games before. The controls felt wonky and wasn't enjoyable.


----------



## cip 123

so I just got a PS4, anyone know if you can install games to the hard drive from disk?


----------



## Repner

cip 123 said:


> so I just got a PS4, anyone know if you can install games to the hard drive from disk?



Just put the disc in, and it'll install automatically. The game will appear in the main screen and a bar will fill.


----------



## cip 123

I thought it did when i first put it in but it just updated i think? I still need to put the game in to play it, can you install straight to the hard drive so you don't need the disk any more?


----------



## flint757

Not how any of the new consoles work. Disc functions like DRM as I understand it.


----------



## cip 123

ahh, I figured since you could download full games with no disk you could install them the same way, ach well.


----------



## Ralyks

Last of Us Remastered was announced for PS4.

That was like, half the reason I was going to get a PS3.


----------



## Marv Attaxx

Ralyks said:


> Last of Us Remastered was announced for PS4.
> 
> That was like, half the reason I was going to get a PS3.


Anyone who switched from Xbox to PS4 and missed out on playing TLOU should get this.
Best game I've ever played 
Hell, If I had a PS4 I'd buy it again


----------



## goherpsNderp

don't know who's doing the OT on Driveclub, but it was just announced today that the release date is October 7th/8th in US and UK.



Also: starting today you can start preordering full retail titles on PS4 (or rather, you can start preordering a much larger selection than what they've offered so far...) and once the 1.70 firmware lands tomorrow you'll be able to preload games you've preordered before they officially release- that way you won't have to wait for it to download all day once it comes out.

Wolfenstein's preorder is 10% off for PS+ subscribers today too, AND you get access to the Doom 4 beta. decent deal for people that like going all-digital and are already planning on getting Wolfenstein.


----------



## alvo

cip 123 said:


> Guys, should i get a Ps4 now or wait a little bit? any point in waiting?


If I were you I would wait. Not many IMO good games out. I have Battlefield 4 and that has already worn off, Killzone same thing, and Metal Gear Solid V:Ground Zeroes too short.

But that's just me, I'm dunno what kinda games you're into. I will say the graphics makes games way more immersive so if there are any types of games you like that are available on PS4, go and get it son. I really did enjoy though Battlefield 4 and MGSV (holy cow) when I was playing them.

I'm considering selling my PS4 to find either another guitar or a nice gaming laptop as mine is crapping out (the laptop).


----------



## Sicarius

So, I bought my PS4 finally. Picked up the Gold Headset, and Infamous and MGSV:GZs off of Newegg, and got Dynasty Warriors 8 XL, and Killzone from a local Gamestop this afternoon.

My weekend/summer is going to be full of games.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Dynasty Warriors 8 was fun as shit.


----------



## Sicarius

indeed, that's why I own it for my PS3 and the XL version for my PS4. One of my favorite series since I've been playing Play Station.


----------



## Ralyks

Marv Attaxx said:


> Anyone who switched from Xbox to PS4 and missed out on playing TLOU should get this.
> Best game I've ever played
> Hell, If I had a PS4 I'd buy it again


 
I actually ended up buying a PS3 the other day, and it came with The Last of Us. And I could totally see myself beating it and buying it again on PS4.


----------



## TremontiFan16

Ralyks said:


> I actually ended up buying a PS3 the other day, and it came with The Last of Us. And I could totally see myself beating it and buying it again on PS4.


Don't own a ps4,but wanted to comment that the last of us was freaking amazing.
It had my almost tearing up in the beginning,and it had me jumping out of my seat at some parts.
Naughty dog is my favorite developer for story games, uncharted was awesome and so was this.They also made one of my ps2 favorites-Jak and daxter


----------



## Azyiu

Woking...


----------



## Pav

Ugh yes, finally! This punches my ticket for a PS4 in September. 

Amazon.com: PlayStation 4 Destiny Bundle: Video Games


----------



## DslDwg

Just picked one up. Game library is really not that great right now IMHO. But I wanted to trade my PS3 before it bricked on me. With games and an older XBox360 I basically got out the door for $175 so not bad to clear my entertainment console. 

And.. at least for now I use it for all of my blu-ray and netflix etc...

The game I'm waiting for is Dragon Age Inquisition. I was a huge fan of the first two. The new one looks amazing IMO. My wife will have to hook up an intravenous feeding when that thing comes out.


----------



## Ralyks

Anyone playing Watch_Dogs yet? Been really freakin' cool so far.


----------



## Sicarius

I got into the Destiny Alpha and played for a little bit.

I got frustrated because it had me repeating little quests over and over, too repetative.


----------



## MesaBeno

Ralyks said:


> Anyone playing Watch_Dogs yet? Been really freakin' cool so far.



I've been playing it. It's ok I suppose.

The biggest thing for me is that this has made me realize that Ubisoft is losing touch with gamers; enough of these massive games that game-play wise are ridiculously repetitive, but yet offer little in the way of story or character development (both Aiden in Watch Dogs and Kenway in AC4 are horribly boring characters).

My biggest issue is that they seem to be going in favour of massive maps with tons to do (almost too much, IMO) instead of focusing on solid gameplay with a compelling story and doing so in a smaller environment. I fear right now they are favouring quantity over quality, and they need a serious re-group to get quality to be more important than quantity. 

Infamous Second Son comes to mind; game didn't have a ton to do in the way of side missions, etc, but damn did it do a solid job of keeping the story compelling and actually make me want to play it twice through (one good, one evil). I didn't even finish AC4 and don't really find the motivation to do so, and though I am playing Watch Dogs, at this point I don't think it'll keep me interested enough to be able to finish the story mode. 

Sad really, because Ubisoft has mad skills and a ton of promise. They just need to change their focus a bit.


----------



## RickSchneider

I've never really thought of it that way - I can only imagine if all of the resources for an AC game was poured into a well produced 10-12 hour linear story. They clearly know how to tell a story, but the whole nature of open world games kind of defeats cohesive storytelling


----------



## MesaBeno

RickSchneider said:


> I've never really thought of it that way - I can only imagine if all of the resources for an AC game was poured into a well produced 10-12 hour linear story. They clearly know how to tell a story, but the whole nature of open world games kind of defeats cohesive storytelling



Exactly - to the point where the story is convoluted and halfway through you don't know what the hell is going on. Not to mention that when doing this it makes relating to the character nearly impossible.

And yet it can be done - Infamous Second Son did an amazing job of blending open world gaming with cohesive storytelling.


----------



## Xaios

And let's not forget Red Dead Redemption. That game blended open world with good storytelling masterfully.


----------



## MesaBeno

Xaios said:


> And let's not forget Red Dead Redemption. That game blended open world with good storytelling masterfully.



Yea, I actually posted on the next gen games thread that I'm absolutely looking forward to Mass Effect and Red Dead more than any other franchise to be released.

Red Dead was probably my favourite game of the PS3/XB360 gen.


----------



## RickSchneider

MesaBeno said:


> ......
> And yet it can be done - Infamous Second Son did an amazing job of blending open world gaming with cohesive storytelling.



I must say, while I played through Infamous Second Son twice, got all trophies and did enjoy my time, I did feel like the story was a low point overall. Some of the characters were interesting - though quite unexplored - and it was really the gameplay that kept me playing until I got the 100%. I thought the karma system in that game was implemented pretty lazily to be honest, there was only about 5 major decisions, and when you play the game both ways you see how your actions really have no consequence other than a final cutscene. 

With that said I loved the game. I thought it was beautiful and the gameplay engaged me until the end. I think to your point the side missions in Infamous were less of 'missions' and more of just 1-2min 'activities'. With no additional stories being fed to you the main storyline wasn't being put out of focus to the player. In that respect they did a good job, but I must reitterate to say the story disappointed me overall, especially with the otherwise incredibly high production for everything else (voice acting and mo-cap included)


----------



## mongey

RickSchneider said:


> I must say, while I played through Infamous Second Son twice, got all trophies and did enjoy my time, I did feel like the story was a low point overall. Some of the characters were interesting - though quite unexplored - and it was really the gameplay that kept me playing until I got the 100%. I thought the karma system in that game was implemented pretty lazily to be honest, there was only about 5 major decisions, and when you play the game both ways you see how your actions really have no consequence other than a final cutscene.
> 
> With that said I loved the game. I thought it was beautiful and the gameplay engaged me until the end. I think to your point the side missions in Infamous were less of 'missions' and more of just 1-2min 'activities'. With no additional stories being fed to you the main storyline wasn't being put out of focus to the player. In that respect they did a good job, but I must reitterate to say the story disappointed me overall, especially with the otherwise incredibly high production for everything else (voice acting and mo-cap included)


 

I agree. I still havent finshed my 2nd playthrough of second son but the stroy and the karma system were both pretty weak. The story just got more Meh the longer i played . by halfway I hated Delsin every time he opened his mouth. The decisions were just paint by numbers "oh its a good playthrough so I need to choose good to level up " . there was no real thought or connection in it 

gameplay was really solid and fun. but as a whole package think its far from the gaming masterpeice many say it is .IMHO of course


----------



## RickSchneider

I think it was a wonderful tech demo of what the new console can achieve so early in it's lifecycle, but as far as showing what game as a medium can do it fell flat


----------



## cip 123

So are we getting an update to make PS1 games work on the PS4 or whats happening with that? I heard bout it once then never again.


----------



## MFB

cip 123 said:


> So are we getting an update to make PS1 games work on the PS4 or whats happening with that? I heard bout it once then never again.



Is it that the drive doesn't read the PSX disc or do ones downloaded from the store not work either?


----------



## cip 123

MFB said:


> Is it that the drive doesn't read the PSX disc or do ones downloaded from the store not work either?



I dunno I haven't tried disks really haha and I don't think you can download any from the store? 

I just remember hearing about it from sony once and haven't seen anything yet.


----------



## Cynic

i think that the ps4 isn't backwards compatible with any of the previous consoles at the moment, but they are going to make it to where you can play ps1-ps3 games via cloud iirc


----------



## Churchie777

Xaios said:


> And let's not forget Red Dead Redemption. That game blended open world with good storytelling masterfully.



I would love to see Red Dead made for ps4 i enjoyed playing that more then GTA and they could make it look really stunning with the next gen


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

I just want it for PC already, goddammit.


----------



## Ralyks

Cynic said:


> i think that the ps4 isn't backwards compatible with any of the previous consoles at the moment, but they are going to make it to where you can play ps1-ps3 games via cloud iirc


 
Thats coming with Playstation Now, although it still renders your old physical games useless. I'm wondering if they would just release them in the PS Sotre for download like you can on PS3, feeling a little uneasy about Playstation Now.


----------



## Azyiu

Cynic said:


> i think that the ps4 isn't backwards compatible with any of the previous consoles at the moment, but they are going to make it to where you can play ps1-ps3 games via cloud iirc



That is one reason why I waited so long and still haven't bought the PS4. I have a ton of PS3 games! 



Ralyks said:


> Thats coming with Playstation Now, although it still renders your old physical games useless. *I'm wondering if they would just release them in the PS Sotre for download like you can on PS3, feeling a little uneasy about Playstation Now.*



I am with you there.


----------



## Cloudy

So I've owned the Xbox one since launch and earlier this week I finally decided to purchase a PS4.

The xbone has been pretty decent but it really seems like a bulk of the online community has transitioned to PS4. Never liked any components of the PS3 compared to the 360 but after many-a conversations my friends convinced me to preorder the destiny PS4 bundle.

We'll see how it holds against the xbox in september.


----------



## Carrion Rocket

Wal-Mart is taking pre-orders for the PS4 Destiny bundle so I'll probably stop by after work and put some money down for it.


----------



## Azyiu

Have any of you replaced the PS4 HDD? Do you see a need to replace it with a 2Tb HDD right off the bat?


----------



## OmegaSlayer

No way I'll buy a PS4 without Bayonetta 2 or a Japanese Devil May Cry.
No stylish action = no buy


----------



## Repner

So now it looks like Rise of the Tomb Raider is going to be an Xbox One exclusive. This pisses me off 

Rise of the Tomb Raider to be an Xbox exclusive | Technology | theguardian.com


----------



## flint757

The way it's worded it will likely be a timed exclusive though. It'll eventually be released cross-platform I'm sure. Still a dick move by Microsoft and company considering the game sales on the last one. Loads more people play that game on Playstation and PC than they do on the XBOX, if we go by the numbers.


----------



## MFB

flint757 said:


> The way it's worded it will likely be a timed exclusive though. It'll eventually be released cross-platform I'm sure. Still a dick move by Microsoft and company considering the game sales on the last one. Loads more people play that game on Playstation and PC than they do on the XBOX, if we go by the numbers.



Sony's had it's own exclusives for some time (Heavenly Blade, Genji, Demon's Souls, Killzone) which will never come to Xbox, and even as recently as the inFamous series which started out from an independent studio but was then bought by Sony before inFamous 2.


----------



## flint757

Yes, but this is 3rd party, not Microsoft, and the game has always been cross-platform before this release. All of Sony's exclusives are made in house or by companies Sony owns basically. While I have no proof I have a feeling this is a lot more like a GTA style exclusive where it will eventually makes its way to all the platforms (wishful thinking perhaps). Unless Microsoft intends on buying out Square-Enix I don't see this staying an exclusive forever. Then again, considering it has to go head-to-head against the Uncharted franchise maybe they felt it was necessary. They apparently haven't been meeting projections, albeit they were highly unrealistic, but that could be the why factor. In the long run it is in their favor to release cross-platform though for the increased sales and they obviously have some leverage otherwise Microsoft would have never made the deal in the first place. 

Aside from the game, it was kind of a waste of money for Microsoft. They really should be pumping money into something new and/or something more successful on the Microsoft platform. People like Tomb Raider, but I honestly don't think anyone likes it enough to buy an XBOX for it, unless they were on the fence in the first place. From what I'm reading, Tomb Raider sold 7:3 in favor of Sony on its last release, that's a lot of lost sales. If I already owned a PS4 there is no way in hell I'd waste the money on an XBONE, or vice versa, so I really don't see the point.


----------



## Carrion Rocket

Rise of the Tomb Raider is a timed exclusive: Kotaku - Rise of the Tomb Raider Isn't Really An 'Xbox Exclusive'


----------



## ceiling_fan

Wouldn't mind a few more friends on PSN - my username is ceiling_fan

Also I have 86 platinum trophies which means my E-penis is 5 feet long


----------



## Steinmetzify

Carrion Rocket said:


> Rise of the Tomb Raider is a timed exclusive: Kotaku - Rise of the Tomb Raider Isn't Really An 'Xbox Exclusive'



Thank God...there's no way I'd buy an Xbone to play Tomb Raider. Would have sucked not having it but would have sucked more giving MS any $.


----------



## Ralyks

Lame that I have to wait to play the new Tomb Raider on PS4 considering how awesome the recent game turned out to be, but at least its only timed. Still, dick move Microsoft....


----------



## Azyiu

Yes, I am lame! And at long last I bought a PS4 this past week. 

The Last of Us is my first PS4 purchase. So far so good, although I expected slightly more from a PS4 game graphic-wise. Then again, I will give it a pass knowing it is supposedly just a "remastered" version.


----------



## SkullCrusher

Cool thread, loving BF4 and some Wolfenstein at the moment. But when destiny comes I'm sure that will change.

could do with some more pals on there PSN: *Norfolkshire*


----------



## sunung1188

The new Fifa and PES 2015 is just around the corner!!!


----------



## Ralyks

Whos got Destiny?


----------



## Cloudy

Just got my PSN up, been playing a lot of destiny and last of us.

Hit me up: Cloudayo


----------



## Azyiu

Finally a release date! GTA V will come to the PS4 on 18th Nov., 2014!

New trailer

Grand Theft Auto V: â&#8364;&#339;A Picket Fence and a Dog Named Skipâ&#8364; - YouTube


----------



## Sicarius

I've been playing this shit out of Diablo 3, I bought destiny, but I'm just now only starting to play it.


----------



## GuitarSamurai

Playing a lot of Destiny, some Diablo 3 and Plants vs Zombies. 

Feel free to add me on PSN @ Guitar--Samurai


----------



## MFB

Finally got my PSN set up now that we switched from Comcast to RCN. I haven't started using it yet but if you feel inclined to add me for what few games I do/will have, my PSN is NotExbend4ble. Surprisingly all my regular user names were taken, which is odd since they were available on XBL when I signed up for that before - and they're fairly unique names.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

The only thing I want to play on PS4 is Warframe, which is even free.
The machine is amazing, but there's no game I REALLY crave to play.


----------



## jonajon91

I am holding out until Bloodborne comes out which just looks like the most phenomenal game to have ever be created, ever. That's February so ill just get that, MGSV and the last of us re-release I was a 360 chump so I never actually played through it myself.


----------



## Sicarius

MFB said:


> Finally got my PSN set up now that we switched from Comcast to RCN. I haven't started using it yet but if you feel inclined to add me for what few games I do/will have, my PSN is NotExbend4ble. Surprisingly all my regular user names were taken, which is odd since they were available on XBL when I signed up for that before - and they're fairly unique names.



There's no 2nd b in MFB's PSN, it's NotExbend4le. Sent you a req, btw.

My PSN is Sicarius23 for those Diablo III players. I'd like to play Destiny with folks, too, because I don't want to grind that out alone.


----------



## MFB

Aw man, I didn't even realize I fvcked up the spelling of my own gamer-tag  I wonder if I can change it on PSN to have the second B that's missing.


----------



## Sicarius

You can ask, but I don't think so. You may end up having to create another PSN account?


----------



## RickSchneider

For anyone interested in all things Playstation subscribe to podcast Beyond on itunes - they're super informative about what's going on with playstation/games at large, and in the past 3 or so weeks they started a segment called "worst playstation name of the week". I say this mostly to tell you that right now there is no way to change your PSN name, though atleast your mistake is less minor than the names being sent into them, I think the last one they had was "sw34tyb4lls4c"


----------



## The Reverend

Got a PS4 a month ago. Add me on PSN: killerapandabear

I'm playing a lot of Destiny and Warframe right now, could always use cool people to play with.


----------



## yuvioh

if anyone is down for some ps4, add me: yuvioh24. I'm currently playing destiny, got a hunter at 29. I also play diablo3 when I'm not grinding on destiny.


----------



## mongey

I overdosed on diablo 3 and have gone back to wolfenstein which I never finished. Its a good game but I'm over the "housekeeping" missions in the bunker. got get your own peice of moldy conctete fool

whoops thought this was what game you playing


----------



## MFB

Anyone playing Evil Within? I've done the first two "chapters" and so far it's like RE4 controls with MGS's idea of being an interactive movie - with clunkier story-telling. The dialogue sounds really forced in the beginning and it feels like it's trying too hard to be mysterious.

I feel like I've also already figured out the plot-line but I won't say what I think it is in case it's correct


----------



## mikernaut

I agree, Evil Within is somewhat awkward and clunky and plays very much like RE4. Which is still fun so far, just not a huge "next/current gen" leap forward that I would have hoped for. Visually it looks like a xbox 360/ps3 game, certainly isn't as pretty as Alien and Infamous which I am also playing currently.

Wait till u get to mission 3 (I believe it is) in Evil Within,,total RE4 village level complete with a chainsaw guy ...just at night time. heh


----------



## Carrion Rocket

After months of saying I'd get the damn thing I finally did. I was thinking of getting a 2TB laptop drive aswell but I figure that I'll get it when I've filled the drive it came with. I'd bought Killzone and inFamous a few months ago on ebay, got Injustice a couple weeks ago in the holiday dump bin and bought Mordor and Black Flag with the gift card I got for buying the PS4. I was surprised Mordor was only $25 as it was newer than most of the other games on sale.


----------



## Azyiu

Am playing *The Last of Us Remastered* on the Grounded Plus level... the Grounded level WAS tough as hell, and Plus is a little better with my guns already upgraded from my save... it is still kind of tough though. Fun game!


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Hey guys been considered switching over to PS4 and had a couple questions. Can I plug in an external harddrive to play videos or watch movies? Does PS4 have the ability to use an external HDD for game downloads as well like the Xbone? Does the PS4 have DLNA capabilities for streaming videos from a computer?


----------



## warpedsoul

Add me on PS4: ChrisMilenko

I'm in the process of playing The Last of Us, COD AW, GTA V online, then I'll be opening up Shadow of Mordor soon.


----------



## Don Vito

Despite making this thread, I still haven't bought a PS4. PC's have taken up most of my time, but I'm getting ready to throw in my master race card for another PS3. There are 2 exclusive games being released this year that have broken me entirely. One of them will be on both PS4 and 3, the other one is only on 3.. 

My frustration is with the cost of the PS3. Despite being 10 years old next year, they are still going for high amounts of money if you want want anything over the 12 GB system, which seems pointless as many games have to be installed to play. Where on the other hand, I find Wii's and even 360's in thrift stores all the time these days. A majority of those 360's are old ones with possible RROD though..


----------



## Brodessa

I beat The Last of Us about a week ago, and I must say, I REALLY enjoyed it. Wll put together story, gameplay that never gets dull, OUTSTANDING voice acting that makes the game pretty next-level. Looks great. Wonderful atmosphere, and interesting environments. 
I was pretty impressed. Naughty Dog lives up to their reputation for crafting a great experience!

Now on my plate, I have The Evil Within and Lords of the Fallen. Both of which are pretty tough games! I'm sure to have a controller-smashing time with them. Wish me luck!


----------



## RickSchneider

I got through the Evil Within a few weeks back. On a gameplay level I really liked that game, though as the story progressed(?) and the game came to an end I couldn't help but feel unfulfilled. Oh well, glad to see they had already slated the DLC before even releasing the game!

I just played some of Infamous: First Light (The DLC for the main game, free this month for PS+!) and I'm really enjoying it. I needed a reason to play some more Infamous, and a whole new trophy set and a similar-but-different set of abilities seems to be enough!


----------



## Azyiu

Brodessa said:


> I beat The Last of Us about a week ago, and I must say, I REALLY enjoyed it. Wll put together story, gameplay that never gets dull, OUTSTANDING voice acting that makes the game pretty next-level. Looks great. Wonderful atmosphere, and interesting environments.
> I was pretty impressed. Naughty Dog lives up to their reputation for crafting a great experience!



You need to go back and try The Last of Us on the Grounded mode! I beat it twice, and it must say that experience was INTENSE!!


----------



## Brodessa

Oh I've definitely been thinking about replaying it, and ramping up the difficulty! 
Beat it on Normal first, and it was easy enough for me to have a great experience with the story.
Now I'm looking to get hardcore with it.


----------



## RickSchneider

Seeing as I had already played the last of us when it came out on PS3 I went straight into the remaster on survival difficulty, which was actually a lot of fun. I beat it on normal and plus, but I don't have much motivation to play through on grounded after that.

After all that I finally played Left Behind for the first time, only about a week ago! Great to have some new Last of Us content - if I wasn't so 'down' on DLC I would have definitely played it sooner


----------



## Brodessa

RickSchneider said:


> After all that I finally played Left Behind for the first time, only about a week ago! Great to have some new Last of Us content - if I wasn't so 'down' on DLC I would have definitely played it sooner



I finished the Left Behind DLC two days ago, and liked it a lot. It was great to see Ellie fleshed out like that. Had a good WTF moment that made me happy I could pick up the obvious signals being thrown in hahaha. 
The arcade moment made me tear up for some reason. 
The final push through the mall to get to Joel was really fun to play, and I think the *lure these infected to kill the hunters* moments were AWESOME.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Just got my PS4 last week (after getting rid of the X1) and cracked open The Last of Us this weekend. Awesome game so far! Forgot how much I enjoy a good single player game with an interesting story.


----------



## Brodessa

TheShreddinHand said:


> Just got my PS4 last week (after getting rid of the X1) and cracked open The Last of Us this weekend. Awesome game so far! Forgot how much I enjoy a good single player game with an interesting story.



I agree. I've been kinda stuck on Multiplayer for the past few years, and it was incredibly refreshing to actually finish a single player game. First notable one in awhile to be honest.
But you got rid of your Xbox One for a PS4? interesting. What made you decide to switch?


----------



## warpedsoul

Anyone wanna trade me a PS4 game for a like new copy of Watch Dogs for the PS4?

I'd really like to have Lords of the Fallen, but you can throw me an offer.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Brodessa said:


> I agree. I've been kinda stuck on Multiplayer for the past few years, and it was incredibly refreshing to actually finish a single player game. First notable one in awhile to be honest.
> But you got rid of your Xbox One for a PS4? interesting. What made you decide to switch?



Couple reasons actually. First let me say that my two favorite franchises are Halo and Uncharted. I haven't liked the path that halo has taken after Halo 3. Honestly, starting with ODST, I've felt like each Halo has been a step down. Fast forward to the MCC and when that was announced I knew I had to make the jump to next gen, so sold the PS3 and got the X1. I enjoyed replaying H1 and H2 campaigns in MCC (even though it was probably the 6th time I'd run through each and I'd just recently co-oped Halo 3 with my brother in law on his 360 and I had no desire to replay H4), but the Matchmaking has been absolutely miserable for MCC. 2 months was enough for me to give 343 to fix the issues. Part of the problem is that I'm lucky if I even have a solid hour to game (what with playing guitar, working out, and not to mention being a dad, having a career, wife, kids, house to take care of). So, when I sit down to play multiplayer and get in 1 match in 45 minutes of searching, I get really pissed! Haha! This happened multiple times whenever I had some time carved out to game and it's just flat out frustrating. Not to mention occasional games with lag (not my internet connection), dropped games for no reason, weekly 1 GB updates to download, hit detection issues in H2 and so on. And while the Halo 5 beta was okay....it's not great and doesn't fill me with any hopes that I would play that game more than a couple weeks when it comes out. So, when Halo is the only reason tying me to the Xbox and PS4 has multiple other exclusives I wanted, it was an easy decision.

I was lucky enough to find one last GTA5/Last of Us PS4 bundles at my local target and I'm having a blast so far and can't freakin' wait for Uncharted 4. Having owned both systems though now, it's interesting seeing some of the differences. For instances, it is absolutely night and day how much faster the OS is on the PS4 compared to the Xbox. While I do think the PS Store is cluttered and repeats the same menus/games too much, my goodness is it lightning fast and easy to navigate. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting on my X1 for the achievements app to snap to the screen.....oh wait, it just crashed.......maybe I'll spend 10 minutes trying to get all my friends in a party on the X1....... I definitely made the right switch.

I should also mention, that keeping both wasn't really an option for me as my entertainment center only has room for 1 box and my wife is (somewhat) understanding of the video game hobby, but having another console just sitting out in the open with cables everywhere wasn't really an option. Doesn't bother me. Tough to justify a whole system for just 1 game.


----------



## ghostred7

I actually liked the mechanics enough in Advanced Warfare multiplayer at a friend's house, that I bought it w/ PS3 and it has a free upgrade/crossgrade/download to PS4 if I redeem before March 15. So I'll be getting the 4 sometime soon (basically as soon as my refund hits....i filed today. yay for electronic w2 delivery \m/ )


----------



## Brodessa

TheShreddinHand said:


> Couple reasons actually. First let me say that my two favorite franchises are Halo and Uncharted. I haven't liked the path that halo has taken after Halo 3. Honestly, starting with ODST, I've felt like each Halo has been a step down. Fast forward to the MCC and when that was announced I knew I had to make the jump to next gen, so sold the PS3 and got the X1. I enjoyed replaying H1 and H2 campaigns in MCC (even though it was probably the 6th time I'd run through each and I'd just recently co-oped Halo 3 with my brother in law on his 360 and I had no desire to replay H4), but the Matchmaking has been absolutely miserable for MCC. 2 months was enough for me to give 343 to fix the issues. Part of the problem is that I'm lucky if I even have a solid hour to game (what with playing guitar, working out, and not to mention being a dad, having a career, wife, kids, house to take care of). So, when I sit down to play multiplayer and get in 1 match in 45 minutes of searching, I get really pissed! Haha! This happened multiple times whenever I had some time carved out to game and it's just flat out frustrating. Not to mention occasional games with lag (not my internet connection), dropped games for no reason, weekly 1 GB updates to download, hit detection issues in H2 and so on. And while the Halo 5 beta was okay....it's not great and doesn't fill me with any hopes that I would play that game more than a couple weeks when it comes out. So, when Halo is the only reason tying me to the Xbox and PS4 has multiple other exclusives I wanted, it was an easy decision.
> 
> I was lucky enough to find one last GTA5/Last of Us PS4 bundles at my local target and I'm having a blast so far and can't freakin' wait for Uncharted 4. Having owned both systems though now, it's interesting seeing some of the differences. For instances, it is absolutely night and day how much faster the OS is on the PS4 compared to the Xbox. While I do think the PS Store is cluttered and repeats the same menus/games too much, my goodness is it lightning fast and easy to navigate. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting on my X1 for the achievements app to snap to the screen.....oh wait, it just crashed.......maybe I'll spend 10 minutes trying to get all my friends in a party on the X1....... I definitely made the right switch.
> 
> I should also mention, that keeping both wasn't really an option for me as my entertainment center only has room for 1 box and my wife is (somewhat) understanding of the video game hobby, but having another console just sitting out in the open with cables everywhere wasn't really an option. Doesn't bother me. Tough to justify a whole system for just 1 game.



Oh yeah, I can definitely see that. I had heard about the problems the MCC was having, but didn't care THAT much because I've had my PS4 for almost a year now. (Just now got a steady flow of games to play by the way) My friend, however, just recently got an Xbox One and I got the chance to play the MCC. Only the campaign though. Halo 2 looked great and getting to play my favorite Halo game all next-gen'd up was awesome. But after hearing about all the problems with it, I wouldn't be going out of my way to get an X1 for it. All of that sounds so PAINFUL. 

Since I didn't get to mess around with the X-bone that much, I didn't notice things like start-up speed, menu navigation, and wait times like that. Thanks for bringing the OS thing up to me, as now I've got ANOTHER reason to tell my buddy he should get a Ps4.

Sounds like you're a busy guy with not that much play-time, and having that little bit of extra speed surely helps. I kind of see the Xbox as a multiplayer COD machine, while the Playstation is for single-player experiences and more traditional gaming. So, seeing as though I am trying pretty hard to avoid competitive multiplayer, I had another reason to choose Sony.
I still am not sure if I'd even like to have both consoles. Nothing on Xbox really has my interest. The exclusives I loved from last generation are all dead or ruined. (Halo imo) 
Guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm glad I got the Peace4, and not the X-Bone. Excited for a lot of the games. Love the 1080p. Love the aesthetic. (THE XBOX IS SO HUGE.) I feel like a gamer again, and when I play, I'm always enjoying myself. 
Rambling's end.


----------



## TheShreddinHand

Brodessa said:


> Oh yeah, I can definitely see that. I had heard about the problems the MCC was having, but didn't care THAT much because I've had my PS4 for almost a year now. (Just now got a steady flow of games to play by the way) My friend, however, just recently got an Xbox One and I got the chance to play the MCC. Only the campaign though. Halo 2 looked great and getting to play my favorite Halo game all next-gen'd up was awesome. But after hearing about all the problems with it, I wouldn't be going out of my way to get an X1 for it. All of that sounds so PAINFUL.
> 
> Since I didn't get to mess around with the X-bone that much, I didn't notice things like start-up speed, menu navigation, and wait times like that. Thanks for bringing the OS thing up to me, as now I've got ANOTHER reason to tell my buddy he should get a Ps4.
> 
> Sounds like you're a busy guy with not that much play-time, and having that little bit of extra speed surely helps. I kind of see the Xbox as a multiplayer COD machine, while the Playstation is for single-player experiences and more traditional gaming. So, seeing as though I am trying pretty hard to avoid competitive multiplayer, I had another reason to choose Sony.
> I still am not sure if I'd even like to have both consoles. Nothing on Xbox really has my interest. The exclusives I loved from last generation are all dead or ruined. (Halo imo)
> Guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm glad I got the Peace4, and not the X-Bone. Excited for a lot of the games. Love the 1080p. Love the aesthetic. (THE XBOX IS SO HUGE.) I feel like a gamer again, and when I play, I'm always enjoying myself.
> Rambling's end.



Yeah, those are a couple of the other things I forgot to mention. The sheer size of the Xbox and that darn power brick! No brick for the PS4 and about half the size.

The one edge I give to the Xbox though is as a media player. I could plug in an external harddrive and listen to music and watch videos we'd either recorded of the kids or movies obtained 100% legally . Can't do that on the PS4, but since I have a laptop with HDMI out, all I have to do is plug that in for the random times we want to do that stuff. No biggie for me there.

And I don't know if Xbox can claim the best multiplayer game in town anymore. There's ton of folks playing COD and others on PSN and with selling twice as many PS4s as X1s at this point, the tide may have shifted.

But I'm pretty happy with my decision cause The Last of Us is absolutely awesome so far! And Amazon gave me $325 for the X1 with Kinect, so didn't hurt too bad.


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## Don Vito

How fast should I replace the PS4's included mic?


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## M3CHK1LLA

curious the see who all got black ops III and how it is running on their ps4's

here is that thread ---> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/computers-electronics-gaming/294426-call-duty-black-ops-iii.html


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## warpedsoul

Don Vito said:


> How fast should I replace the PS4's included mic?



I'm a fan of surround sound headsets so I say immediately. Plus I don't like earbuds.



M3CHK1LLA said:


> curious the see who all got black ops III and how it is running on their ps4's
> 
> here is that thread ---> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/computers-electronics-gaming/294426-call-duty-black-ops-iii.html



I have Black Ops III and it runs fine. Play it everyday almost.


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