# Best Lightweight locking tuners.



## 693 (Sep 27, 2015)

I am looking for some locking tuners. I have both sperzel and Jim Root Strat with Fender Locking tuners I like both. I think the sperzels are a little big, but they are light weight. But I am looking for some lightweight ones to put on a partscaster, without to much work. I have some regular gotoh's on it for the moment.

Anyone have anything to recommend?


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## weirdoku (Sep 27, 2015)

Hipshot open gear locking tuners. I have a locking set and a standard set. They are very smooth and almost next to no play in the buttons rotation before the post actually rotates. I've had a set of Sperzels before but changed them to the Hipshot locking ones as the Sperzels have a noticeable about of play in the buttons and wasn't as smooth as the Hipshots. I don't think the Hipshots are the lightest but they're not that heavy either.


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## mniel8195 (Sep 27, 2015)

I really like hipshot tuners and the gotoh 510


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## nicktao (Sep 27, 2015)

Yep, Hipshot open locking gear are definitely my favorite out of all the locking tuners I've tried. No play and rock solid. I dig them more than Sperzel and Gotoh Magnums. Schallers are also great.


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## 693 (Sep 27, 2015)

The Hipshots look good, also like that they are available in staggered, as I can drop installing the string tree.

nicktao: Are Schallers light? what is the model name? I have some locking tuners that supposedly are schallers, but they are so heavy that I think they might be something else.


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## Alex Kenivel (Sep 27, 2015)

+1 Hipshot Open Gear


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## nicktao (Sep 27, 2015)

From the Hipshot site: "Our Griplock locking guitar tuners weigh in at 32 grams each, while the Classic non-locking tuners weigh 29 grams each. In comparison the Schaller m6 Mini weighs 33.83 grams and the Grover Rotomatic weighs 33.73 grams."


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## ihunda (Sep 27, 2015)

^thanks so there isn't significant weight difference between these tuners


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## Vrollin (Sep 27, 2015)

Why are you concerned about the weight of them...?
I have gotoh height adjustable locking tuners in mine and they are solid, smooth tuners...


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Sep 27, 2015)

I have installed a few sets of Vanson locking tuners on some of my guitars and they're awesome, especially for the price. They're a direct replacement for Gotoh tuners and feel/perform equally as well. I also have a set of Sperzels on one guitar and didn't notice either brand to be heavier than the other, though I also wasn't looking for that difference


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## cardinal (Sep 28, 2015)

I had a guitar with what looked like the Vanson tuners (no markings, but they looked like the eBay pics). They got the job done, but they had a not-insignificant amount of backlash (when turning the button has no effect on the tension on the string). I have a few sets of Hipshot tuners, and none of them have this issue.

I also have a set of Gotohs that are very nice. They might be lighter than the Hipshots, I'm not sure. They are the vintage-style, Klusion-looking tuners (SD-95 I think?).


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## Vrollin (Sep 28, 2015)

I still don't understand the need for "light weight" tuners.... Surely I have missed something here and this is in relation to the turning ratio and not the physical weight of them, because we'd be talking grams here not kgs....


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## cardinal (Sep 28, 2015)

Some real heavy tuners can throw off the balance of a guitar. And different mass on the headstock impacts the guitars resonance frequencies. Lighter isn't necessarily "better," but I can be different. For example, when folks complained about a common resonance-based deadspot on PRS guitars with the old, small heel, one of the "fixes" was really light tuners to move the deadspot.


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## odibrom (Sep 28, 2015)

The need for lightweight is most related to neck diving situations, however, it is also important to discuss the ratio response, specially in the existence of some looseness when turning the button. I also understand that most forget to tight the screw at the buttons, some times fully responsible for the looseness...

I have Hipshots on my RG8. I like them, but their ratio feels strange to what I am used to on Gotoh's non locking ones...


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## Vrollin (Sep 29, 2015)

Neck dive from tuners? Cmon you can't be serious here? Couple of extra grams isn't going to do sweet .... all...


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## odibrom (Sep 29, 2015)

Hey, when a guitar is on the neck diving business, one can dream on lightning up the headstock a bit, right? and it ain't just a few grams. Depending on the tuner, the overall headstock weight difference may be significant for a change... but that's my take on the subject.

... and I didn't say neck diving was driven by tuners' weight...


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## Vrollin (Sep 29, 2015)

Each to their own, its just a strange concept to me haha


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## 693 (Sep 30, 2015)

Well I went with the staggared hipshot's! Thanks for the help guys!


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## bnzboy (Sep 30, 2015)

Vrollin said:


> Each to their own, its just a strange concept to me haha



I also think that the root cause of neck dive will exist somewhere other than the head... ie. the body shape. but man I am all about light weight guitar! anything to reduce the weight would help


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## odibrom (Oct 1, 2015)

bnzboy said:


> I also think that the root cause of neck dive will exist somewhere other than the head... ie. the body shape. but man I am all about light weight guitar! anything to reduce the weight would help



Neck dive is a combo of many things: guitar design, wood choices, hardware, strap buttons positions, etc... Lighter tuners may be useful to correct or reduce the problem, that's only my point.


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## Vrollin (Oct 1, 2015)

bnzboy said:


> I also think that the root cause of neck dive will exist somewhere other than the head... ie. the body shape. but man I am all about light weight guitar! anything to reduce the weight would help



haha, fair enough, im on the other side of the coin, love a heavy weight guitar, something about pickup up a solid beast of a thing just makes me go .... yeah! one of the reasons I love my SE245 and MMM1's


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## Humbuck (Oct 1, 2015)

It's all about lighter=better for me...right down to the tuners.


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## bnzboy (Oct 1, 2015)

Vrollin said:


> haha, fair enough, im on the other side of the coin, love a heavy weight guitar, something about pickup up a solid beast of a thing just makes me go .... yeah! one of the reasons I love my SE245 and MMM1's



I also love the feeling of a heavy guitar (ie. my lespaul) but my back just isn't the same


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## Ape Factory (Oct 2, 2015)

Gotoh stealth locking tuners are far and away the lightest out there. 

Yep, that's 2.3oz for all six.


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## DancingCloseToU (Oct 2, 2015)

Now, I've heard of gram counting in action sports/games, racing, professional clowning, etc. 

but counting grams on your guitar?
This is taking the term "weight weenie" to a whole new level... 

Guitar playing weight weenies? Awesome, I'm a weakling too, sign me up!

I need a SUPER ERGO, head-less, string-less, pickup-less, body-less, amp-less guitar!


...Also, it should play itself.

Maybe I shouldn't judge, guitars can be REALLY heavy! 

I'm pretty sure practice will help a lot more than counting grams of your tuners though. Especially if you have good stable tuners... Unless your playing a 15 string with an absurdly long scale and osmium or iridium tuners, i can't see this making much of a difference... 

Just get some good stable tuners that feel good...


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## odibrom (Oct 2, 2015)

I am sure that those with back problems will agree on that...


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## Ape Factory (Oct 2, 2015)

Condescending much? Seriously, what do you care what other people do with their time and money? It ain't about you buttercup.




DancingCloseToU said:


> Now, I've heard of gram counting in action sports/games, racing, professional clowning, etc.
> 
> but counting grams on your guitar?
> This is taking the term "weight weenie" to a whole new level...
> ...


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## GuitarBizarre (Oct 2, 2015)

Ape Factory said:


> Condescending much? Seriously, what do you care what other people do with their time and money? It ain't about you buttercup.



This is a dumb attitude.

Sure, it's their money, but so is the money people spend on VOSS water, Patent Medicine, Brand-Name painkillers or Anti-Allergy medicine, Rebranded and Price-Gouged items of all natures etc.

If something is a dumb idea and you're doing it, you don't have some kind of immunity from anyone else pointing out that it's a dumb idea. You don't get to cry "WAAAAAHHH SOMEONE POINTED OUT MY IDEA WAS BAD" just because that idea wasn't a direct detriment to their life.

It's the same token as "That's just my opinion" - You're making the ultimate concession. You're saying "The most compelling thing I can say in my own defense is that what I'm doing is not literally illegal".



On a more broad level, NOT calling this horse.... out where you see it leads to farcical, self-perpetuating bull.... like claiming that WAV files sound better than FLAC or other such nonsense that gets perpetuated because when it all started off, nobody had the balls to say "That's ....ing dumb". 

There are *SO* many markets and hobbies and products out there that trade entirely on the basis that they claim something ridiculous or untrue or massively exaggerated, and trust that their customers are either too dumb to figure out why that's bull...., or that their customer's friends aren't going to explain to them that they've wasted their money.

Lets not make that problem worse by saying "No you can't criticise my bad idea"

As far as I'm concerned, if you're doing something dumb as rocks and nobody calls you out on it, then at some point, everyone involved in that chain has either been too dumb, or too polite to say anything, or both.

(Protip: Bumblebee capacitors, most PAF reproductions, and plenty of other things in "guitar" are exactly so much bull.....)


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## GuitarBizarre (Oct 2, 2015)

For what it's worth by the way, my personal opinion on tuners is that if you're fixing a problem by changing tuners, you should be going heavier, not lighter in most cases, for the sake of strenght of the hardware, and also - most guitar headstocks have a lot of wood routed away where the truss access is, which makes them susceptible to vibration along the headstock, which leeches energy from the vibrating string, kills sustain, and causes wolf tones. 

Increasing the mass of your guitar's headstock with heavier tuners, a Fat Finger, or some other similar approach, means that energy will be lost less easily (Because inertia), and therefore you should improve your guitar's sustain and lessen it's dead spots. The same applies to reinforcing necks, using thicker necks or stronger wood, having more body mass, fixed bridge vs tremolo, high mass tremolo blocks, etc etc etc.

And honestly, anyone who complains about the weight of their guitar without actual, doctor-confirmed back problems or muscular weakness, is being kind of a pansy. It's not like even a heavy Les Paul should present a significant lifting challenge for a grown adult in good health. (Or even, frankly, in less than brilliant health)


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## Vrollin (Oct 2, 2015)

GuitarBizarre said:


> And honestly, anyone who complains about the weight of their guitar without actual, doctor-confirmed back problems or muscular weakness, is being kind of a pansy. It's not like even a heavy Les Paul should present a significant lifting challenge for a grown adult in good health. (Or even, frankly, in less than brilliant health)



Working in a job where you have to at times carry a load greater than your own body weight and a loaded gat in your hands, for days or even weeks on end just to get the job done, I have to hold my tongue so hard when some one complains about the weight of a guitar. I have two bulged discs and one ruptured in my neck and the weight of a guitar has never presented me with a problem that the day to day grind hasn't.


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## odibrom (Oct 2, 2015)

You guys are all correct... however tone is in the fingers, and so is the "feeling good with the guitar" by the musician. IF one wants to lighten his/her guitar, WHY THE .... NOT? Why is that every thing has to be "more sustain = better tone". We all know that making guitars isn't rocket science and 2 perfectly matched ones won't sound the same because of the wood (composite materials are a different matter), etc.

Point is, what is good for some, isn't for others. I'am a small guy, kind of fit, but I have my injuries, and heavy guitars kill it for me. I don't have any doctor prescription and I don't consider myself a pansy for liking and preferring lighter guitars. This is almost like a guitar color, some like them pink, I don't, am I better because of that? Am I with the most correct argument?


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## Humbuck (Oct 2, 2015)

Vrollin said:


> Working in a job where you have to at times carry a load greater than your own body weight and a loaded gat in your hands, for days or even weeks on end just to get the job done, I have to hold my tongue so hard when some one complains about the weight of a guitar. I have two bulged discs and one ruptured in my neck and the weight of a guitar has never presented me with a problem that the day to day grind hasn't.



It sounds like it might one day! How old are you if you don't mind me asking?


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## GuitarBizarre (Oct 2, 2015)

odibrom said:


> You guys are all correct... however tone is in the fingers, and so is the "feeling good with the guitar" by the musician. IF one wants to lighten his/her guitar, WHY THE .... NOT? Why is that every thing has to be "more sustain = better tone". We all know that making guitars isn't rocket science and 2 perfectly matched ones won't sound the same because of the wood (composite materials are a different matter), etc.
> 
> Point is, what is good for some, isn't for others. I'am a small guy, kind of fit, but I have my injuries, and heavy guitars kill it for me. I don't have any doctor prescription and I don't consider myself a pansy for liking and preferring lighter guitars. This is almost like a guitar color, some like them pink, I don't, am I better because of that? Am I with the most correct argument?



"We all know that making guitars isn't rocket science"

Well yes, because guitar design hasn't advanced significantly since 1958. If it had, we'd be seeing a lot more carbon fiber and steel guitars, because the use of those much stronger materials allows things like guitars without truss rods, or that don't need a new setup every time the weather changes.

As for tone in the fingers - That really doesn't have any relevance to the situation. The varying application of technique is in the fingers, and that affects the tone, but no amount of technique is ever going to get a banjo to sound like a Steinberger. No amount of technique is ever going to get a guitar with a big wolf tone at the 12th fret G, to not have that wolf tone - but making that guitar's headstock heavier might well do the trick, because of what I mentioned before. You can't "Tone is in the fingers" a way to stop that headstock vibrating and causing that problem.

Gear matters. In most cases, making that gear heavier, stronger, and more dense, has proven and reproducible positive effects, borne out not only by experience, hearsay, word of mouth and the ever present bull.... of people talking about "mojo", but also by actual physics, with equations and calculations that say things like "As the mass of an solid object increases, its inertia also increases".

Whatever you believe or prefer about guitars, doesn't, unfortunately, have any bearing on the actual physics of those vibrating strings. Making your guitar lighter increases the chance of that guitar having wolf tones, uneven response, poor sustain, and being flexible and susceptible to climate changes in a way that heavier, more robust instruments don't have to worry about. That is the bottom line of it. There is also a point where making your guitar lighter by too much will invariably CAUSE those problems, no matter how well constructed the guitar is or what super-materials were used to build it.


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## Humbuck (Oct 2, 2015)

Maybe. There's nothing that says a light guitar can't be robust. There are plenty of heavy guitars that have any or all of the problems you outline.

You know, they've made guitars out of stone to concur with your stated theories of what makes guitars better. Guess what? They sucked. As has been stated, they also used to make all kinds of aftermarket things that would increase the mass of the headstock (and bridge, etc.) to improve tone, sustain, etc...they all fell out of favor cause they didn't really work. Unless you liked your guitar heavier and more uncomfortable to play at long rehearsal or recording sessions...they were great for that.

Btw, calling somebody out because they like a lightweight guitar is among the silliest of things I've seen on guitar forums...and I've seen a lot.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2015)

Closing this for the ever increasing cringe.  GuitarBizzare and Vrollin? Shoulda seen it coming.  

OP, Ape Factory is right, those Gotohs are CRAZY light, and good quality.


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