# Good live mic for screaaming?



## Lives Once Abstract (Jan 24, 2011)

ok, so, for the past year my band has been using SM 58's they are good sturdy and have lasted the whole time, but they dont have the best quality, for screaming, we have 4 people in the band who scream, me, rythem guitar, drums, keyboardist, and our designated screamer, and only one of us ever singsand its very rare so i dont care too much about clean vocals, i need something that is good for screaming, help anyone?


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## rvx7b (Jan 24, 2011)

Never had a problem with screams with the SM58. Another option is the battle horse SM57...our back scream run through one and its just perfect for the job.


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## Razzy (Jan 24, 2011)

Real men don't need microphones to scream and be heard over a metal band and PA.


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## rotebass (Jan 24, 2011)

On what basis can you possibly say SM58's are lacking in quality? Have you compared them to other microphones? Are you sure that the microphone is even the issue?

Sure there are "better" mics out there, but for your application the SM58 is standard for a reason. If you want to try something similar with a different flavor, try a Sennheiser e835, or if you want to spend twice as much money for marginal gains try a Beta 58 or even a 935.


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## MTech (Jan 24, 2011)

If you want something that's affordable yet better then most everything out there under $1000 and you only do more high pitched stuff then get a Heil PR-22 otherwise if you want even more output and a larger range that gives great lows as well the Heil PR-35. They're made in the USA, extremely durable, and you don't have to worry about blowing out the capsule from poor singing technique like cupping the mic. There's a reason guys like Tool, Unearth, Arsis, Slayer, Dillinger Escape Plan, All That Remains etc all love these mics.
PR 35 | Heil Sound


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## troyguitar (Jan 24, 2011)

Do you guys scream 4 part harmonies or what? I'd like to hear that, got a website?


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 25, 2011)

Good mic and vocal technique and you should be fine with a 58 or a 57 on stage.


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 25, 2011)

I've never had an issue with my SM58. Neither have any of the bands I've been in. Actually, every band I've been with in the past 4 years, and the vast majority of bands I've promoted, managed, or done sound for have used my personal SM58, and it's still kicking.

Easily the single most durable piece of gear I've ever purchased. It's been through hell and back and few times, and still sounds just like the day I got it.


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## 13point9 (Jan 25, 2011)

the 58 is industry standard for a reason, if Corpsegrinder can use it then you guys should be able to as well


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## Lives Once Abstract (Jan 25, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> Do you guys scream 4 part harmonies or what? I'd like to hear that, got a website?



We will soon, we are in the middle of recording our ep. once thats done we will have music and everything up. But, no we have like i said, 4 people who do vocals, there are parts were all four of us will scream, one high, one in the middle range, and two low, it sounds pretty sick, but alot of the time we will octave scream with one high and one low and theres our singer, and we need four vocalists for chants in a few songs so yeah.

thanks for the input guys.


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## Underworld (Jan 25, 2011)

The SM58 isn't good enought?? Try a SM7b maybe?


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## Necris (Jan 25, 2011)

Sm7bs are great for lower vocals, but sm58s or 57s (they're essentially the same) should be more than adequate .
I have a feeling the problem is with your screams and not with the microphone being used.


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## Lives Once Abstract (Jan 26, 2011)

yeah they were good at first when we werent very experienced at knowing good quality with screams. And almost every band that does any screaming at our level has these mics, and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM dont have as good quality with those mics than of others. what i want is a mic that will make our screams sound the same (or as close as possible) to our screams when we do them acoustically with no electronics, the 58's just change it too much, when any of us, or any one else will produce a high scream through these mics they tend to sound as if they are "rattling", if you know what I mean. I used one of my friends 58 beta's and it sounded alot better, and way more close to our acoustic screams.


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## Lives Once Abstract (Jan 26, 2011)

Necris said:


> Sm7bs are great for lower vocals, but sm58s or 57s (they're essentially the same) should be more than adequate .
> I have a feeling the problem is with your screams and not with the microphone being used.



i can assure you thats not the problem trust me.


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## JamesM (Jan 26, 2011)

Necris said:


> Sm7bs are great for lower vocals, but sm58s or 57s (they're essentially the same) should be more than adequate .
> I have a feeling the problem is with your screams and not with the microphone being used.



+1  Exactly, a key that is commonly missed. The 57 and 58 are ALMOST identical, just have different stock grilles. 

Also, I'd never use an SM7b live.




Lives Once Abstract said:


> i can assure you thats not the problem trust me.



So you're the shit then? 

Even saying that Shure lacks quality is absolutely ludicrous. While the pre '81 57s are better, even the new ones are excellent quality and will last you indefinitely.


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## MTech (Jan 26, 2011)

Lives Once Abstract said:


> what i want is a mic that will make our screams sound the same (or as close as possible) to our screams when we do them acoustically with no electronics, the 58's just change it too much, when any of us, or any one else will produce a high scream through these mics they tend to sound as if they are "rattling", if you know what I mean.



Again the Heil PR22 or PR35 is exactly what you'd be happy with then. The mics have a smooth almost flat response with a bump in the high end where it actually should be rather then the harsh mid-spike and thin sound of the Shures. You get to hear what your actual voice sounds like rather then having that nasal tape recorder sound to your voice. There's a reason radio hosts swear by them and you see one sitting on David Letterman's desk.



The Armada said:


> Even saying that Shure lacks quality is absolutely ludicrous. While the pre '81 57s are better, even the new ones are excellent quality and will last you indefinitely.



 
Granted I don't see it being the OP's issue...and I'm confused by people talking about muddy sound because I don't believe he said he's having any muddy sound he said he wants it to accurately reproduce the sound he produces rather then change it so much.. However those mics break &/or Blow Capsules quite frequently. I'd take a Sennheiser any day over most Shures as well as the high end AT/EV (I'm blanking on which one it is that a lot of big names have been getting incredible results from) but I still fall back to Heil on durability and price for quality that you get. There's a reason he's the only one with the balls to put his mics up against all the competition at every trade show and people are blown away time and time again.


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## SargeantVomit (Jan 26, 2011)

This kid has no idea what the proximity effect is. Total facepalm.

The reason your screams get muddied up from that mic is because you're gobbling the mic. The closer you sing into a microphone the more bass it adds. Stop eating the grill and scream 6" away from it and it will instantly fix your problem as much as it will ever matter live.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proximity_effect_(audio)

Proximity effect is distortion caused by the use of ports to create directional polar pickup patterns, so omni-directional mics are not affected. Depending on the mic design, proximity effect may easily result in a boost of up to 16 dB, usually focused below 100 Hz. Vocalists tend to like proximity effect since it fattens up their voice, but a constantly varying bass boost can wreak havoc on headroom and carefully set levels. Proximity effect is sometimes referred to as "bass tip-up."[2]

Literally 5 lines into the wikipedia page for SM58's it talks about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shure_SM58

The Shure SM58 is a professional cardioid dynamic microphone, commonly used in live vocal applications. It has built an enviable reputation among musicians for its robust construction and technical performance, and is considered the industry standard for live performance microphones.[1] Introduced in 1966, the SM58 remains one of the best selling microphones in the world today. The SM stands for Studio Microphone.[2]
Like all directional microphones, the SM58 is subject to proximity effect, a mid-bass frequency boost when used close to the source.


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## KingAenarion (Jan 26, 2011)

It could also be that he's had a bunch of moron sound guys... or that in rehearsals they don't know what they're doing


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## JamesM (Jan 27, 2011)

MTech said:


> Granted I don't see it being the OP's issue...and I'm confused by people talking about muddy sound because I don't believe he said he's having any muddy sound he said he wants it to accurately reproduce the sound he produces rather then change it so much.. However those mics break &/or Blow Capsules quite frequently. I'd take a Sennheiser any day over most Shures as well as the high end AT/EV (I'm blanking on which one it is that a lot of big names have been getting incredible results from) but I still fall back to Heil on durability and price for quality that you get. There's a reason he's the only one with the balls to put his mics up against all the competition at every trade show and people are blown away time and time again.




I dunno man. 57's alone, I have a '71, an '83, an '85, a '95 and an '05. 
Been using them all for six years and toured/gigged/dropped/dickedaroundwith/smashed the '95 and '05 (I'd NEVER do that with my '83 or '71, completely different beasties there. They don't make em like that anymore! Amazing mics, a whole different character) and still haven't had one rendered nonfunctional.  I guess it is all person-to-person.


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## KingAenarion (Jan 27, 2011)

To bust up an SM58 you have to WANT to bust up an SM58...

I'm a Sennheisser/AKG man myself. 
SM58 is great in huge noise environments because it's got sick feedback rejection. 

But I just love my Sennheiser 945 and 965 mics for vocals... they just sound so warm, with a nice crispness to them.

The 800 Series Sennheisser are pretty friggin rugged too. I have a couple of those still as they were some of the first mics I bought... They've taken a beating and not even the bloody grill has dented


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## Lives Once Abstract (Jan 27, 2011)

SargeantVomit said:


> This kid has no idea what the proximity effect is. Total facepalm.
> 
> The reason your screams get muddied up from that mic is because you're gobbling the mic. The closer you sing into a microphone the more bass it adds. Stop eating the grill and scream 6" away from it and it will instantly fix your problem as much as it will ever matter live.
> 
> ...



I think its funny how a twenty on year ols is now a kid... 

Oh yeah by the way, i just want to ask how many gigs and practices you guys have been to of ours. I dont hold the mic very close, because it produces a sound i dont want, none of us do that. And as Mtech said, i dont have a problem with having a "MUDDY" issue. 

I just love it when i ask for advice on what might be better than the 58's and 57's (i never said they were horrible, or that i wasnt satisfied form what i had gotten out of them as long as i did) and some real douche bags come and turn it into saying i suck at screaming , Thank you for the people who actually tried to help , if the rest of you are gonna act like ass holes and use a FORUM of all places to talk shit, go do it somewhere else.


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## MTech (Jan 27, 2011)

You can hear plain as day there's way more articulation/clarity/warmth in the Heil even in the cheaper lower model vs the higher model Shure.


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## raximkoron (Jan 27, 2011)

For live stuff, I do like what I've heard from Heil Sound. If I have a say in how my cab is mic'ed live, I use my PR-30, and I'm looking into getting a PR-22 or PR-35 for vocals (I do a lot of gutteral growling). The downside to Heil mics though are they're freakin' expensive.

I currently use a Sure Beta 58A for vocals now... I don't have any issue with it at all, but once I A/B'ed it with a couple Heil's, I thought I sounded fuller and clearer. I plan on passing my Beta 58A on to our primary vocalist when I finally get the bread to get a PR-35.


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## MTech (Jan 27, 2011)

raximkoron said:


> For live stuff, I do like what I've heard from Heil Sound. If I have a say in how my cab is mic'ed live, I use my PR-30, and I'm looking into getting a PR-22 or PR-35 for vocals (I do a lot of gutteral growling). The downside to Heil mics though are they're freakin' expensive.
> 
> I currently use a Sure Beta 58A for vocals now... I don't have any issue with it at all, but once I A/B'ed it with a couple Heil's, I thought I sounded fuller and clearer. I plan on passing my Beta 58A on to our primary vocalist when I finally get the bread to get a PR-35.



I know all Shures look pretty much the same from a distance but you guys do realize when you see somebody like say Hatebreed up there he's singing through a Shure its not the $99 one right, it's the good one that costs a couple thousand ..... Just like the one Dream Theater use Sen's that are around $5k and are waterproof (hence Prince at the Superbowl..same mic)
Heil are completely made in the USA and the most expensive one is what $350.... that's cheap.. especially when you look at the fact bands known for tone like Tool use them in the studio as well as live and people compare them to mics that cost over 4x that plus they're all dynamic so no phantom power needed. Top it off with rear rejection is in the neighborhood of 40 dB down.
The diaphragm is basically twice that of a Shure.


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 27, 2011)

Also, keep in mind that that mid spike and harsh attenuation a 57/58 gives is actually pretty good in a live mix. Helps you cut, and keeps you from muddying and getting lost in walls of guitars, cymbals, and bass, or in the other people you're "harmonizing" with. "Flat" is nice, but not always the best for the application.


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## 13point9 (Jan 27, 2011)

also make damn well sure you haven't got fake mics... I'm going to post a thread up soon about it as I got stung but managed to get my money back after buying 2 Beta 57's


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## Lives Once Abstract (Jan 28, 2011)

13point9 said:


> also make damn well sure you haven't got fake mics... I'm going to post a thread up soon about it as I got stung but managed to get my money back after buying 2 Beta 57's



Huh?  

And I don't like alot of mid in vocals, mostly bass, and treble, the mids ad a sound none of us like but, the 58's and 57's just insticntively do this.


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## highlordmugfug (Jan 28, 2011)

Lives Once Abstract said:


> i can assure you thats not the problem trust me.



Without clips or videos, you saying this means absolutely nothing.


Lives Once Abstract said:


> Oh yeah by the way, i just want to ask how many gigs and practices you guys have been to of ours. I dont hold the mic very close, because it produces a sound i dont want, none of us do that. And as Mtech said, i dont have a problem with having a "MUDDY" issue.
> 
> I just love it when i ask for advice on what might be better than the 58's and 57's (i never said they were horrible, or that i wasnt satisfied form what i had gotten out of them as long as i did) and some real douche bags come and turn it into saying i suck at screaming , Thank you for the people who actually tried to help , if the rest of you are gonna act like ass holes and use a FORUM of all places to talk shit, go do it somewhere else.



I'd like to ask how many recordings or videos of your practices or shows that you've linked them of yours?

You just expect them to take your word for it "No guys, there's absolutely no chance that I could possibly have less than perfect technique,"?

You want their help? Well, since the SM58 has shown itself to work pretty nicely for screams in the past, and they've seen/heard this, forgive them for suggesting that, heaven forbid, maybe it's not the microphone that is the issue.

Also, I'm pretty sure that your 34 posts don't entitle you to tell other people to leave the forum. In short, address the questions that people have if you actually want help, with something other than "That's not it, I'm really good" or





and  @ scooped metal vocals


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## maxdgad (Jan 28, 2011)

I use an seinheiser es935 for live vocals. The output is higher than the shure and it also has much more clarity. The difference in sound after using 58's for the last 5 years was huge, at the time I just didn't put much thought into how a microphone can change your sound, that and the 58's won't break in my lifetime so I never thought about buying a new one.


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## Necris (Jan 28, 2011)

highlordmugfug said:


> @ scooped metal vocals


 I endorse this post. If you scoop the mids out of your vocals the quality of the mic won't matter because theres a good chance you won't be heard at all.





13point9 said:


> also make damn well sure you haven't got fake mics... I'm going to post a thread up soon about it as I got stung but managed to get my money back after buying 2 Beta 57's


 


Lives Once Abstract said:


> Huh?


 
There are occasionally some fake Shure Sm58s and 57s floating around shops that sell used gear. If you have a fake one then that would be the reason why your vocals sound bad in the mix.
About.com : How to Spot a Fake Shure Microphone - How to tell if your SM57 or SM58 is fake


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## Lives Once Abstract (Jan 31, 2011)

maxdgad said:


> I use an seinheiser es935 for live vocals. The output is higher than the shure and it also has much more clarity. The difference in sound after using 58's for the last 5 years was huge, at the time I just didn't put much thought into how a microphone can change your sound, that and the 58's won't break in my lifetime so I never thought about buying a new one.



THANK YOU! the 58's are just not as clear as others that ive heard from other bands locally. 

I never said i take the mid out of the vocals, i said i dont like too much mid, scooping usually only sounds good when recording bass. 

When i said "got do it somewhere else" i meant dont do it on this thread. 

And i wasnt saying that im a perfect vocalist, i was saying that other people other than me see the same problems, clean vocalists as well as screaming vocalists. 58's and 57's aren't Jesus' right and left hands as all of you keep saying. Yes they are sturdy, yes they great for the money, NO THEY AREN'T THE BEST! For 100 bucks there may not be a better mic. When Increasing your range to about 200 you can find mic's that make a 58 sound like dirt (not literally). I dont worry about a mic being "super strong" because i dont nail stages together with them, I sing, scream, and play into mics like they should be used for. They are well taken care of, if they weren't so strong im absolutely sure they would not be $100. As for what Mtech said, heils, or whatever seem to have good reviews when compared to sm58's that people transfered from.


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## JamesM (Jan 31, 2011)

Lives Once Abstract - With Hell Above Heaven Higher And A Broken Ladder Between tab by Misc Unsigned Bands @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

You posted your own tab for your own song of which has not even been recorded? Or if it has, the recording hasn't shown itself to the internet. 

Lemme just say that if you keep up the Ultimate-Guitar attitude (I posted there a few years back, hated it) I'm sure that your stay here will be brief. That said, I'm sure everyone finds you very welcome here, though you don't seem to be making many friends in this thread. 


To comment on the fake mics issue, Shure mics are the most counterfeited microphones on the market, ESPECIALLY the 57s and 58s (and further especially the Beta models)--cheap Chinese copies that look pretty damned near until you take the grilles off. Then it will be plain as day. You might have a copy microphone, in which case it is in no way representative of a REAL Shure.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Feb 7, 2011)

Double it up with the AKG D112 kick drum mic!

Also, Melissa Cross' Zen of Screaming might be worth a look if anyone is in doubt as to the "CORRECT" way of screaming. She can't be mentioned often enough as she has saved many of my freinds larynxes. Worth paying for and doing the excercises!


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## krypter (Feb 10, 2011)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> Double it up with the AKG D112 kick drum mic!
> 
> Also, Melissa Cross' Zen of Screaming might be worth a look if anyone is in doubt as to the "CORRECT" way of screaming. She can't be mentioned often enough as she has saved many of my freinds larynxes. Worth paying for and doing the excercises!


 

Link? Its something my singer could use. (thread jack....sorry!)


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## Lives Once Abstract (Feb 10, 2011)

Its all good


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## rotebass (Feb 13, 2011)

Lives Once Abstract said:


> Huh?
> 
> And I don't like alot of mid in vocals, mostly bass, and treble, the mids ad a sound none of us like but, the 58's and 57's just insticntively do this.



This is a big part of your problem, your vocal cords are not a bass instrument.

You really need to rethink your attitude here buddy. A lot of guys here are offering good advice and you are ignoring it because it's not what you want to hear. So go ahead, spend a fuck load of cash on some high end mic, cut the mids, realise that it still sounds bad, then come back here and we'll give you some tips on how to do it right.


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## Lives Once Abstract (Feb 14, 2011)

once again, i dont like alot of mids (saying that because i know alot of people that turn the mids all the way up highs low and bass low, that sounds horrible, never once did i say i "cut" the mids) and very few people have given me advice, mostly just "you dont know what your talking about 58's are the best" and "your vocals suck". but thank you to the people who have helped.


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## rotebass (Feb 14, 2011)

I don't know anyone who turns the mids up, while turning the high's and lows down. No one here is saying that nothing will beat a 58, we're just trying to make you understand that the 58 is probably not the weak link in this situation. You could maybe take the time to learn how to make a 58 sound good, whether that involved improving our vocal techniques, or spending time learn how to properly set gain, eq, compression to get the most out the mic.

This is not a problem that you can simply throw money at brother.


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## Lives Once Abstract (Feb 15, 2011)

I picked up a heil pr 35 yesterday, played alot with it last night, sounds really and good, much more clear than a 58, oh yeah by the way this is just a sum of the eq that we havent changed, is ( on a scale of 0-100) bass-67 mids-46 treble-70, we also did a side by side comparison with the 58, big difference. i will most likely replace most of our vocal mics with these.


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