# Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus || Spoken Word



## eventhetrees (Jan 12, 2012)

I'm not religious, never read a bible etc. I agree with what he's saying. But I've never read a bible etc so I was really never able to say it as well as he does when I've tried to make similar points.


----------



## groph (Jan 12, 2012)

HAHA, it's like he's having a rap battle with a priest.

This is cool, great points. People are pretty bad at being religious.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 12, 2012)

Good to see him generalizing a ton of religions at once, that's the way to do it for sure, because all religions are just like christianity/islam/judaism.


----------



## groph (Jan 12, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Good to see him generalizing a ton of religions at once, that's the way to do it for sure, because all religions are just like christianity/islam/judaism.



Well yeah, he was probably talking about Christianity. That's kind of the "go-to" religion but valid point, yes. He instantly jumped into the Republican thing so I guess he's talking about Christianity in the US.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I guess, even Christianity in the US is a lot more extreme than it is here, I've only really met one family that was hardcore to the max and that was when I was 8ish. They didn't let their kid watch Harry Potter because it had witches in it. (lol)


----------



## Goatfork (Jan 12, 2012)




----------



## Blind Theory (Jan 12, 2012)

I think it's really cool. It is obviously talking about Christianity. There are links in the video's description that solidify this. Just be glad that this isn't someone shoving religion down your throat.


----------



## decypher (Jan 12, 2012)

funny guy, he does that hip hop thingy with his hands... all over the place.

the ethereal soundtrack adds to the cheese... holy crap!!


----------



## decypher (Jan 12, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah I guess, even Christianity in the US is a lot more extreme than it is here, I've only really met one family that was hardcore to the max and that was when I was 8ish. They didn't let their kid watch Harry Potter because it had witches in it. (lol)



I agree completely. One of the reasons why I feel so comfortable in Canada is because it's a relatively secular country.

I can't breathe in a country that thinks that I'm a better person when I believe in their "god". I don't know why, but I find this video extremely unsettling, fake and gross, it's like a poor Christians attempt to finally adjust to current times. pure propaganda.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 12, 2012)

decypher said:


> I agree completely. One of the reasons why I feel so comfortable in Canada is because it's a relatively secular country.
> 
> I can't breathe in a country that thinks that I'm a better person if I believe in their "god". I don't know why, but I find this video extremely unsettling, fake and gross, it's like a poor Christians attempt to finally adjust to current times. pure propaganda.



Yeah I noticed everyone in general is just...more extreme in the US. Like their muslims, agnostics, etc...

It's too bad we're become more extreme too as Harper just finished cancelling all the gay marriages


----------



## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

I think he's full of crap, it is just a re-branding of the old "personal relationship with Jesus"-anthics. Don't he know that Jesus, when he supposedly walked the earth, preached for religion, more precisely his/his fathers religion? Did he not organize prayer meetings with large groups? He preached in front of a lot of people too, right? 
Then what is a religion?


He also came bearing not peace, but a sword, and then he promised to split families when they loved them more than they loved him.... Is that the words of a loving deity? 

Well, at least he is allowed to eat sea-food....


----------



## decypher (Jan 12, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah I noticed everyone in general is just...more extreme in the US. Like their muslims, agnostics, etc...



Texas is an absolute no go for me ,after being there for a few days. and thats not because of muslims, agnostics or etc...'s ;-)



> It's too bad we're become more extreme too as Harper just finished cancelling all the gay marriages


what exactly are you talking about? he did not cancel gay marriages.

On the contrary - do YOU have an issue with it? ;-)


----------



## Blind Theory (Jan 13, 2012)

Jakke said:


> I think he's full of crap, it is just a re-branding of the old "personal relationship with Jesus"-anthics. Don't he know that Jesus, when he supposedly walked the earth, preached for religion, more precisely his/his fathers religion? Did he not organize prayer meetings with large groups? He preached in front of a lot of people too, right?
> Then what is a religion?
> 
> 
> ...



Someone is good at regurgitating facts from a video a few posts above....Just fucking man. 


Anywho, I used to be a religious person (Christian) but I have come to realize something. I'm not. What would you call someone who believes that a God exists but doesn't believe in all that wizard stuff? Agnostic? I believe but I don't think he does any more than monitor type thing...agnostic, right?


----------



## The Grief Hole (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm going to assume every post here has either:

A) wondered if this guy is high or on acid.

B) pointed out every contradictory phrase that this brain dead cretin says.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Jan 13, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I've only really met one family that was hardcore to the max and that was when I was 8ish. They didn't let their kid watch Harry Potter because it had witches in it. (lol)


 
My parents wouldn't let me watch He-Man because he called upon the power of Greyskull, and that's paganistic.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 13, 2012)

decypher said:


> Texas is an absolute no go for me ,after being there for a few days. and thats not because of muslims, agnostics or etc...'s ;-)
> 
> what exactly are you talking about? he did not cancel gay marriages.
> 
> On the contrary - do YOU have an issue with it? ;-)



Quite the contrary my bromosexual friend, the less the competition the better, lesbians are never hot anyways. 

Here's the link though.

Canadian Gov&#039;t Dissolves Thousands of Same-Sex Marriages (Including Dan Savage&#039;s) | Gay Blog | Gay News

Supposedly it might be a hoax, I just saw it pop up on FB a few times. 



Blind Theory said:


> Someone is good at regurgitating facts from a video a few posts above....Just fucking man.
> 
> 
> Anywho, I used to be a religious person (Christian) but I have come to realize something. I'm not. What would you call someone who believes that a God exists but doesn't believe in all that wizard stuff? Agnostic? I believe but I don't think he does any more than monitor type thing...agnostic, right?



I'm not sure what the technical term is but most people I know just call themselves spiritual when they're like that. It's definitely good to be spiritual even if you don't follow any particular religion (imo!).


----------



## Demiurge (Jan 13, 2012)

Kind of like a "don't hate the playa, hate the game" kind of thing. A tad bit too mincing for my tastes. 

Sure, Jesus, as the character portrayed in the bible, seems like a nice-enough guy, and one could suppose that standing for the things that Jesus stood for is a good thing. Problem is, Jesus is a part of a religion, the trunk of a tree that bears fruit. If there was a real Jesus, it's not his fault that Christian institutions have done horrible things in his name, but it makes a convincing case that believing in Jesus is not a "get out of being a bastard- free!" card and that religion's utility is over-rated to that extent. If you don't need religion or its tenets to be a good person... then you don't need religion... or its tenets... including Mr. Jeebus.

Religions can be institutions that abuse and impose power. For someone who isn't a member of that faith, seeing a figurehead of said institution be reputed for bearing values quite different from the institution's applied values just gives the appearance of a farce. It's like a rapist wearing a condom with a smiley face on it. Thank you for wearing a condom while fucking us... means a lot.


----------



## wlfers (Jan 13, 2012)

I know if I was Jesus I would have had my second coming at his film set and bitch slapped him. 

The only religious people I respect are those who believe in it for themselves. Not to convert anyone else, or to prove anything to anyone else.


----------



## Iamasingularity (Jan 13, 2012)

I don`t buy this at all. This thing is misleading and I can`t believe people are falling for it. "One is the cure, the other is the infection" <---WTF, this guy is on my list of relgious dumbasses. The condradiction outweigh the points he makes by a whole~ lot.


----------



## guitareben (Jan 13, 2012)

TheGhunther said:


>




That is all.


----------



## Jakke (Jan 13, 2012)

Blind Theory said:


> Someone is good at regurgitating facts from a video a few posts above....Just fucking man.



Hmmm, seems like we did pretty similar points




Blind Theory said:


> Anywho, I used to be a religious person (Christian) but I have come to realize something. I'm not. What would you call someone who believes that a God exists but doesn't believe in all that wizard stuff? Agnostic? I believe but I don't think he does any more than monitor type thing...agnostic, right?



Deist is the most common term.


----------



## Randy (Jan 13, 2012)

TheGhunther said:


>




I have no problem with atheism, especially because of people like Richard Dawkins who is a fucking GENIUS, but I can't stand this guy. He's loud, he's stupid, he's ugly, his voice is mixed with too much treble in his videos and the hissing sound out of his stupid fucking mouth everytime he talks because of his massive underbite annoys me to no end.


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Jan 13, 2012)

I hate anything that makes people act like dumbshits. After watching the video in the OP, I added Jesus to my list.


----------



## Iamasingularity (Jan 13, 2012)

Randy said:


> I have no problem with atheism, especially because of people like Richard Dawkins who is a fucking GENIUS, but I can't stand this guy. He's loud, he's stupid, he's ugly, his voice is mixed with too much treble in his videos and the hissing sound out of his stupid fucking mouth everytime he talks because of his massive underbite annoys me to no end.



Hmm I understand what your saying. Well they are 2 atheists. Implicit and Explicit. Though his presentaion is really offensive to Christians, I can`t help but agree with his points. I personally wouldn`t poke the subject in such a way, as this is the reason religious people can`t come to any terms with athiests in general. Can`t be helped though


----------



## Randy (Jan 13, 2012)

Stuff like "I'D TELL HIM TO GO FUCK HIMSELF" adds nothing to the debate and, mixed in with his legitimate criticisms, is this kinda garbage throughout all of his videos. Just lowers the intellectual level of the discussion and, for how much he condemns religion or Jesus for being high on himself, this guy's attitude wreaks of arrogance.


----------



## Iamasingularity (Jan 13, 2012)

Randy said:


> Stuff like "I'D TELL HIM TO GO FUCK HIMSELF" adds nothing to the debate and, mixed in with his legitimate criticisms, is this kinda garbage throughout all of his videos. Just lowers the intellectual level of the discussion and, for how much he condemns religion or Jesus for being high on himself, this guy's attitude wreaks of arrogance.



Yeah, I agree with you. It kinda throws off the topic and is bashing the religious opinions of people. Well... I guess you could say he does it for entertainment. If he was like that infront of religious people, he`d be hated mad.


----------



## Jakke (Jan 13, 2012)

Randy said:


> Stuff like "I'D TELL HIM TO GO FUCK HIMSELF" adds nothing to the debate and, mixed in with his legitimate criticisms, is this kinda garbage throughout all of his videos. Just lowers the intellectual level of the discussion and, for how much he condemns religion or Jesus for being high on himself, this guy's attitude wreaks of arrogance.



I mean, the guy's style is rant, so then a certain amount of profanity in almost expected

He makes videos of _his_ opinions, of course he thinks he is right, but that arrogant style is what makes him so popular with his subs.

And just my , I'd tell Jesus to go fuck himself too.


----------



## Randy (Jan 13, 2012)

All fair points. Back to my original point, I am a Christian but I'm not opposed to intelligent discussion and legitimate questions. I follow and am actually a fan of many known atheist/agnostic writers but I'm just not a fan of this guy's.

Although, I suppose if you share his opinions it's probably a fair bit more enjoyable in a "fuck yeah! You tell 'em" fashion. I can see that.


----------



## Jakke (Jan 13, 2012)

I am very interested in religion, so I am also very much for some sort of intelligent and mutual discussion, I am an atheist, as you might have suspected

But when I want that, I listen to the atheist experience or the thinking atheist.
The amazing atheist is more the comic relief in the community, he is simply fun to watch.



And it's all down to preferance really, I tend to like his brusque and loud style.


----------



## Sunyata (Jan 13, 2012)

I've been subscribed to The Amazing Atheist for a long time now. He is definitely a strange character, and comes off as an enormous dick sometimes. However, he also has made some amazing, poignant and articulate social commentary.


----------



## Jakke (Jan 13, 2012)

^His videos of feminism is very interesting for example, he has a perspective seldom heard.


----------



## Iamasingularity (Jan 13, 2012)

Sure he can be a dick sometimes (wait he pretty much offends someone always in his videos) but its just his thing. I really doubt he would rant like that in public though.



I like the videos he posts like the one above, but he does that seldomly.


----------



## signalgrey (Jan 13, 2012)

I feel like he thinks im stupid, which is not a good start. He says nice things about Jesus and he seems to have a brain in his head, but theres something about this that doesnt really sit well with me. Like hes just the "cool" version of a bible thumper. 

BUT

Its cool that this guy loves Jesus so much, and that it works for him. He does seem to be able to have a conversation about his beliefs, which to me is a defining point of "are you a fucking moron who likes to judge people and then validate it with 'religion'" or "I believe in this, if you dont its cool but this is me".Id be interested to hear his take on typical polarizing topics amongst spiritual people i.e. abortion, gay marriage etc.. (im being serious, not being a dick) The proof is in the pudding as they say.

Personally (and without sounding condescending) I dont feel I need a book, stories, a role model and poorly translated metaphors to make me a good person. I know to some its not that easy and that religion is helpful. I grew up traveling the world as a kid and I saw alot and experienced alot. Its alot harder to be judgmental, blindly stubborn and ignorant to your effect on others, when you have seen and experienced what the world is really like.

Again, Personally I just need to be aware of my effect on others, be aware of the world around me and make sure that I keep myself in check. Try to understand and LISTEN before jumping to anger. I can control me, and if im not doing a good job, I have made sure that the people I choose to be around will let me know im out of line. This guy has jesus, I have my life experiences. to each their own (unless you try to shove your shit down my throat, thats never cool)


----------



## nojyeloot (Jan 13, 2012)

Jakke said:


> I mean, the guy's style is rant, so then a certain amount of profanity in almost expected
> 
> He makes videos of _his_ opinions, of course he thinks he is right, but that arrogant style is what makes him so popular with his subs.
> 
> And just my , I'd tell Jesus to go fuck himself too.



And He'd still be there with open arms wanting you.


----------



## Jakke (Jan 13, 2012)

nojyeloot said:


> And He'd still be there with open arms wanting you.



And that is entirely his problem


----------



## groph (Jan 13, 2012)

Randy said:


> I have no problem with atheism, especially because of people like Richard Dawkins who is a fucking GENIUS, but I can't stand this guy. He's loud, he's stupid, he's ugly, his voice is mixed with too much treble in his videos and the hissing sound out of his stupid fucking mouth everytime he talks because of his massive underbite annoys me to no end.



This. I can't stand TheAmazingAtheist. Condescending to no end, and he has an unshakable "I am always right because science" mentality.

EDIT: And Jakke, TheAmazingAtheist's video on feminism raises a few points worth mentioning, but his anger is pretty misplaced and misinformed. It's MUCH less anti-male than he thinks.


----------



## guitareben (Jan 13, 2012)

Randy said:


> Although, I suppose if you share his opinions it's probably a fair bit more enjoyable in a "fuck yeah! You tell 'em" fashion. I can see that.



He's an entertainer in the end ^^ He also (IMO) raises some good points, but I see why it's easy to think he's a dick (But hey, that's what he's all about, and it's why I love him  )



groph said:


> he has an unshakable "I am always right because science"



I'm not to sure about this... In many cases these days he isn't talking about religious people (he's already done it) anyway, and in the video above he was pointing out flaws in the OP video... And as some would say, "science works, bitches". But now isn't the time nor place for a religion vs science, faith vs reason debate (right?)


But anyway, I must say, I didn't actually get the message of the OP video... I mean, he just seemed to be trying to sell christianity by saying Christianity is not a religion. With cheesy music and hands.


----------



## groph (Jan 13, 2012)

I've only seen maybe 2 of his videos so I'm really just talking out of my ass.


----------



## Randy (Jan 13, 2012)

guitareben said:


> I mean, he just seemed to be trying to sell christianity by saying Christianity is not a religion. With cheesy music and hands.



He may have been.

As somebody who was involved with the church rather closely in recent history, I get where "he" (or whoever's written this sales pitch) is coming from. The "church community" is overrun with rumor mills, social circles, cliques, political bias and various other things that have literally nothing to do with Jesus or the bible, or anything else... but they're generated by individuals in an environment that's makes it very easy to put the focus on prejudice and exclusion. 

For a background, my sister is Catholic and got her certification to be a youth minister. She got offered a job as the youth minister at a local church where the program went dead a long time ago and we worked with eachother on putting together the music program/youth group there. When trying to figure out why the program didn't work the first time around, we found out that there was really corrosive negativity and control coming down from the local Catholic community and the board who oversaw church activities. Just, like, parents who thought the program was too loud, wanted to exclude anybody non-Catholic from participating as either a teen or volunteer, chased some kids out just based on local gossip, etc. We took over the program and decided to do it our own way and the group grew and grew, attendance was up at regular services as a result and, surprisingly, the thing the kids liked the most was the "message" and bible study activities. Went on strong for a few years before the same 'old boys club' decided the program became too high profile and ultimately suffocated it.

Around that time, I got a lot busier in my personal life so I moved on. My sister and her husband moved on to another church and, wouldn't you know it, the same bullshit politics was there.


----------



## UnderTheSign (Jan 13, 2012)

I'm just wondering what his definition of 'religion' is and if he isn't getting religion and the church mixed up.

Also "Wanna start helping and serving Jesus in a practical way? checkout the company of the watch I am wearing in the video! They give 10-25% of all proceeds to non profits and the bands and faces are interchangeable! http://www.cruxwatches.com"
Brilliant!


----------



## Jakke (Jan 13, 2012)

groph said:


> EDIT: And Jakke, TheAmazingAtheist's video on feminism raises a few points worth mentioning, but his anger is pretty misplaced and misinformed. It's MUCH less anti-male than he thinks.



It is his style to work himself up in front of the camera, he is a professional ranter, in the style of those like Lewis Black. You can see that much of the anger is acting when he calms down in litterally seconds.

And regarding feminism, I think I am for his viewpoint (and was before I heard of him), feminism has gotten to the point where it is about making it better for women, and disregarding men (to be fair, that has always been the agenda, but it was acceptable whn women did not have equal rights, nor it is not). 
There is this lady that claims on BigThink that if a man is not a feminist, he's a bigott, that is unfortunately a good example on how modern feminism has gotten. 

Valerie Solanas that wrote the SCUM Manifesto is regarded as canon in feminism, *they love her*. 

Actually, they have put up SCUM as a play here in Sweden and they they are going to show to kids in high school. There the boys are going to learn that they are worthless, chauvinistic, opressor pigs, while the girls gets preferential treatment. So, where's the gendeer equality in that? (It's a rethorical question, you don't have to defend insanity)

So I have never called myself a feminist, I am an equalist, 'cause I believe in as close as possible equality between the sexes (there are biological barriers that can't be crossed, so it's as close as possible).


----------



## Jakke (Jan 13, 2012)

UnderTheSign said:


> I'm just wondering what his definition of 'religion' is and if he isn't getting religion and the church mixed up.



I think so too, religion is the church, pretty much without any exceptions...


----------



## Randy (Jan 13, 2012)

UnderTheSign said:


> Also "Wanna start helping and serving Jesus in a practical way? checkout the company of the watch I am wearing in the video! They give 10-25% of all proceeds to non profits and the bands and faces are interchangeable! http://www.cruxwatches.com"
> Brilliant!





Well, that answers that.


----------



## Ibanezsam4 (Jan 13, 2012)

^ i think randy hit the true message of the original vid perfectly. 

i wouldn't expect non-church goers to get this, but my dad was a deacon at the last church i attended. there was this one particular family who's father was taking seminary classes part time in order to become a pastor. he got it in his head that he was going to use our church as his jump off point. he wanted the assistant pastor gig but there that position wasn't available because thats not how our church was structured (we had a group of deacons who all assisted the pastor). so he got himself into that group and started mucking it basically, tried to take the lead on certain higher profile projects, but then trying to delegate the work load to other deacons. it should be noted that while there was no official seniority to the deacons, it was considered polite and smart to get the advice of the more experienced deacons (the ones who had served the longest). basically what happened is a bunch of the younger deacons got sick of him, they tried to get him to tone it down, but the older ones were passive and basically let this guy run shit. all so he could maybe get his own pastor job somewhere. 

i visited last year after being absent 11 years. he's now officially the assistant pastor because the older deacons retired and no one else wanted to deal with this guy. 

now if you take what the kid is saying in the vid and put it in the context of what randy and i just described, it makes a lot more sense. the kid is saying "hey look, we're here to serve and worship, not to be dicks to each other in the hopes for a better spot in heaven." there's a lot of politics involved in a church and that's why i haven't attended for 12 years with exception to the visit i made last year. 

i know there's a growing youth movement around this concept "love jesus but not the church" and i wouldn't be surprised if there are already some new organizations getting behind this message and possibly one financed this vid. but i dont have much hope for this new idea as a new alternative structure to sunday morning gatherings. basically when money and structure start occurring it isn't long before the politics come back and ruin what could've been a good thing. i predict this will turn into the christian equivalent of the "troo metal" argument.


----------



## Jakke (Jan 13, 2012)

^But he said he did love the church...


----------



## vampiregenocide (Jan 13, 2012)

I respect this man for choosing what parts of his faith he identifies with and finds relevant. Being that it is such an old religion, that seems the most logical way to be in my opinion. That fact he has such an open mind and is critical of his own faith is a refreshing perspective, though I find myself with more questions than answers at the end of that video.


----------



## wlfers (Jan 13, 2012)

I don't think he's being critical at all or even witty. He's taking everything that modern youth culture dislikes about Christianity then saying that it is not Christianity. 

He could have done it more tactfully than trying to separate Religion from Jesus, but I guess his audience (young kids open to faith) is more likely to trust something because it rhymes than because of evidence he could present them. 

The atheist guy hit it on the head with the coke/soda analogy.


----------



## Ibanezsam4 (Jan 14, 2012)

Jakke said:


> ^But he said he did love the church...



interesting point. however in the bible a "church" is whenever more than one person gathers together in the name of god. we're taught this in sunday school, but its never truly and spiritually practiced because that renders the need for a four-cornered building with a steeple moot. so for him to say "i hate the church" would basically mean he hates the inhabitants of it as well. yet that's why he frequently refers to it as "man made" or "institution." these points really re-enforce for me that this video was made for the younger generation of church goers because they know the concepts. whereas people who aren't (as this thread proves) interpret the concepts more generally and broadly. i dont think this was made to go viral, but rather to be shared around the country by youth ministries and the like

kinda love the sinner hate the sin idea i guess in regards to your statement. i know its really convoluted because you can say church to refer the membership, but it also refers to the building and the structure and the institution.. hence why my family stopped calling the building a church.. again, if you're a church going kid you pick up on this


----------



## JPhoenix19 (Jan 14, 2012)

Ever heard of Rob Bell? You know, the guy who pissed off a lot of Christians with his book about hell? Yeah, the guy in the OP video pretty much tears pages- no, chapters out of his book.

This post-mordern packaging of the 'religion = bad' nonsense within contemporary American Christianity really gets under my skin. That, and how they alter the meanings of words in order for them to be able to say the believe something, but mean something different from what you think they mean. For example, him saying "I love the church" probably does not mean "I love the buildings/organizations that are called 'churches'."

My brother-in-law (who recently left Christianity) summed it up well in his Facebook post today: 



> *If you as a Christian project everything you don't like about your religious tradition onto the word &#8220;religion.&#8221; And then disassociate yourself and what you believe from it. You are not painting a fair picture of reality. It doesn&#8217;t work that way. It's an extremely narrow and completely self-serving definition of religion that would be unrecognizable to a good chunk of the world&#8217;s religious population. Not to mention dishonest. I used to do it too. It's good marketing. But mostly bullshit. *


----------



## Jakke (Jan 14, 2012)

Ibanezsam4 said:


> interesting point. however in the bible a "church" is whenever more than one person gathers together in the name of god. we're taught this in sunday school, but its never truly and spiritually practiced because that renders the need for a four-cornered building with a steeple moot. so for him to say "i hate the church" would basically mean he hates the inhabitants of it as well. yet that's why he frequently refers to it as "man made" or "institution." these points really re-enforce for me that this video was made for the younger generation of church goers because they know the concepts. whereas people who aren't (as this thread proves) interpret the concepts more generally and broadly. i dont think this was made to go viral, but rather to be shared around the country by youth ministries and the like
> 
> kinda love the sinner hate the sin idea i guess in regards to your statement. i know its really convoluted because you can say church to refer the membership, but it also refers to the building and the structure and the institution.. hence why my family stopped calling the building a church.. again, if you're a church going kid you pick up on this



I see what you are saying, but to me and most others, the church *is* the institution. That is what it has always been called, so either he don't know that, or has some other definition. Maybe american evangelicals, that I would hazard a guess he belongs to, has a much more narrow definition. 

I am an atheist, but I was confirmed in the lutheran church, so feel that I have some religious insight as well. There is a saying in the atheist community, that goes: There is nothing that makes more atheists than reading the whole bible.
That is very accurate in regards to me. I was not a strong believer, and reading up on the subject pushed me over

The whole subject of sin is fallacious in my opinion. The thought of having actions dire enough to be punishable by eternal torture, while at the same time allowing exceptions to that is insane in my opinion. The bible clearly shows that breaking the commandments is acceptable, Moses was a murderer and Jesus was not really a role-model for morals either, but it does not outline when it is okay to do so. 
The notion of original sin is also madness, because that means people has to be punished eternally for *being born*. 
God punished creatures that didn't know right from wrong (Adam and Eve) when they did wrong, something that they did not have the ability to recognize! 
Is it just me, or is it something wrong with that idea?


----------



## Jakke (Jan 14, 2012)

Also this:


----------



## Ibanezsam4 (Jan 14, 2012)

Jakke said:


> I see what you are saying, but to me and most others, the church *is* the institution. That is what it has always been called, so either he don't know that, or has some other definition. Maybe american evangelicals, that I would hazard a guess he belongs to, has a much more narrow definition.
> 
> I am an atheist, but I was confirmed in the lutheran church, so feel that I have some religious insight as well. There is a saying in the atheist community, that goes: There is nothing that makes more atheists than reading the whole bible.
> That is very accurate in regards to me. I was not a strong believer, and reading up on the subject pushed me over
> ...



there's nothing wrong with your opinion and what you believe... however you're simply adding your opinion to this guys (the video in the OP) which is really a whole different discussion in and of itself entirely. which is more or less the point randy and i made. 
i think this was the same reason more or less why the "religions" thread was closed. i've just come to accept its impossible to have theological discussion on this board


----------



## Jakke (Jan 14, 2012)

Ibanezsam4 said:


> there's nothing wrong with your opinion and what you believe... however you're simply adding your opinion to this guys (the video in the OP) which is really a whole different discussion in and of itself entirely. which is more or less the point randy and i made.
> i think this was the same reason more or less why the "religions" thread was closed. i've just come to accept its impossible to have theological discussion on this board :shrugs:



I have to object, I adressed the points you brought up. In my, and most of the christians opinion (this is based on the language from the major denominations), the church is the institution itself, thus him saying that he hates the institution but loves the church is jibberish.
And I brought up my own opinion of sin, just as he did.

Mind telling me what was wrong with my post, so that I may clarify?

*EDIT* I just realized something, do you actually believe that as long as you share his opinions, then and only then, you have the right to post in this thread? Please tell me that is not what you mean..


----------



## Ibanezsam4 (Jan 14, 2012)

Jakke said:


> I have to object, I adressed the points you brought up. In my, and most of the christians opinion (this is based on the language from the major denominations), the church is the institution itself, thus him saying that he hates the institution but loves the church is jibberish.
> And I brought up my own opinion of sin, just as he did.
> 
> Mind telling me what was wrong with my post, so that I may clarify?
> ...



nothing of the sort. just saying its a completely different discussion that has nothing really to due with the original topic. the thread pretty much went off on a rabbit trail and i only posted to help clear up what the true intent of the vid as best as i could interpret. i just didn't think this thread was for theological debate so i have and will continue to refrain from it. mainly because if i talk about the church as an institution, trust me, thats a rant that will take days to get out of my system and will entail critiques on denominations and even go so far as to criticizing "house churches" and my experiences with all form of organized Christianity that will ultimately result in a tl;dr post  trust me, im saving everyone the headache and confusion. not trying to rain on any parades bud


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Jan 14, 2012)

As an agnostic watching the video I think it's pretty clear what he means.

He interprets Jesus as having come to Earth, sent as the Son of God to absolve the sins of man and create God's kingdom on Earth. He preached love and forgiveness, but did not create what we know today as Christianity. Codes, laws, and asceticism were never mentioned.

He's saying that Jesus spread a message but men made it into a church and twisted it beyond all fuck. In all honesty if Jesus was real and was the son of God then that's indeed how it went down IMO 

Also, didn't watch the TAA video and didn't intend to. Stopped watching him a couple of years ago, I just find him irritating, most of the YouTube atheist gang are. If you want better Coughlan is both funnier and makes better points on the things he argues  (again)


----------



## Jakke (Jan 14, 2012)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> If you want better Coughlan is both funnier and makes better points on the things he argues  (again)



But Coughlan is *insane*!

I think Thunderf00t is very resonable, he is also not primarily an atheist, but a skeptic (A view I subscribe to as well. I am an atheist because I'm a skeptic, not the other way around), and thus he works from a scientific viewpoint.
The Thinking Atheist is also a great debator that brings facts to the table




Ibanezsam4 said:


> nothing of the sort. just saying its a completely different discussion that has nothing really to due with the original topic. the thread pretty much went off on a rabbit trail and i only posted to help clear up what the true intent of the vid as best as i could interpret. i just didn't think this thread was for theological debate so i have and will continue to refrain from it. mainly because if i talk about the church as an institution, trust me, thats a rant that will take days to get out of my system and will entail critiques on denominations and even go so far as to criticizing "house churches" and my experiences with all form of organized Christianity that will ultimately result in a tl;dr post  trust me, im saving everyone the headache and confusion. not trying to rain on any parades bud



Your intentions honour you, and I see we are not going to see eye to eye. I see it as highly relevant to the topic that people comment on his views, and why they agree/don't agree. I never quit either, if we launch into a theological debate, only a tactical nuke strike is going to end it

I am happy to inform you that there is no parade to rain on, bud


----------



## Blind Theory (Jan 15, 2012)

I read about halfway through this so I may be touching on points previously made. Anyway, from what I read, it seems like the directions this thread was headed was towards the church. I am a "deist" as was pointed out to me. I used to claim Christianity but I got so unbelievably fed up with the church. I felt that I didn't need a man to tell me why I believed what I did. Randy made the politics, cliques, social circles thing apparent and I agree with that very much. If you go to a small church it usually isn't that way but I went to a large one. I also didn't like the fact that I felt obligated to think a certain way as not to offend anyone, my family in particular. Politics plays a HUGE part in organized religion in my opinion and this is where I started to go, "wait a minute, I don't actually think like that." I still believe there is a God, I just don't have the patience to deal with that anymore. I am not saying that being an Atheist or deist or whatever is a better option (it was for me), anything can work for anyone. I believe the video in the OP was a so-so attempt at trying to point out religion is different from faith. I also think that, while amusing, The Amazing Atheist is a loud, obnoxious asshole 80% of the time. 

Moral of the story: as long as you don't shove something down someones throat, who cares? If you want to believe in a God or be an Atheist, cool. If you want to worship a rock, go for it. Just don't annoy the fuck out of me and try and make me conform to something. It isn't cool.


----------



## lava (Jan 15, 2012)

Am I the only one here that thought the vid in the OP was just a bunch of sentences intended mostly to rhyme but not necessarily to make any sense? Had me lol'ing at the "intelligent hip hop" bent of it. I guess you might be able to distill a single meaning out of the video if you take it as a whole, but there's a whole lot of "what the hell is he talking about?" going on in there. He's not really saying much, he's just saying things that sound good.


----------



## TomAwesome (Jan 15, 2012)

The AmazingAtheist video is oozing with pretentious self righteousness, but it makes most of the right points about the original video. I think I have an idea of what the guy may have been trying to get across, but it keeps falling apart when he tries to separate Christianity from religion. Christianity is religion. That kind of faith is religion. The church (in any sense of the word) is religion. If he was trying to separate the ideals of Christ's teachings from the corrupted state of the religious institutions that bear his name, that's great, but he should have just said that instead of sacrificing the clarity and focus of his message for the sake of making it rhyme and sound poetic. Whatever he was trying to say, what he ended up actually saying was not a damn thing.



Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah I guess, even Christianity in the US is a lot more extreme than it is here, I've only really met one family that was hardcore to the max and that was when I was 8ish. They didn't let their kid watch Harry Potter because it had witches in it. (lol)



Eh, I have a friend or two who grew up like that. It's kind of hard to interact with the real world on equal footing when you were raised around that kind of mindset. Their parents wouldn't let them watch The Nightmare Before Christmas! What kind of a childhood is that?


----------



## Duelbart (Jan 15, 2012)




----------



## guitareben (Jan 15, 2012)

Duelbart said:


>



Win. Just pure win.


----------



## Jakke (Jan 15, 2012)

Duelbart said:


>



YES!


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Jan 15, 2012)

Jakke said:


> But Coughlan is *insane*!



Why do you think I like him? 





Duelbart said:


>



Funny picture+Brent Hinds avatar=double win


----------



## Jakke (Jan 15, 2012)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Why do you think I like him?



I _knew_ there were a connection!


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Jan 15, 2012)

Jakke said:


> I _knew_ there were a connection!



Does the SS love and gheylationships thread make sense now?


----------



## Jakke (Jan 15, 2012)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Does the SS love and gheylationships thread make sense now?



Well, I did proclaim my never-dying love for Ross there


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Jan 15, 2012)

Jakke said:


> Well, I did proclaim my never-dying love for Ross there



I think my newest post in that thread just reinforces the statement/question in my previous post in this one


----------



## Jakke (Jan 15, 2012)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> I think my newest post in that thread just reinforces the statement/question in my previous post in this one



To be honest, I am a bit curious about that too


----------



## CrownofWorms (Jan 16, 2012)

I think where he is trying to get to is the Practice what you preach saying. The thing that modern supposed high standard Christians that are labeled through fabrications of non biblical influences that are derived from man attempting to access there own picture of God/Christianity as apposed to the one that is described in the Bible. You know the Christians that have blood on their hands(but everybody has blood on their hands regardless) but try to hide that and show them as the perfect example of what it means to be a Christian biblical or not. Also he is attacking the Christians that judge others when that is totally contradictory to their so called belief. 

Alot of Christians like to keep that stanza to give a certain presence when they don't know what and why they are really doing the things, they are just doing it so they can acquire the certain level of presence that man(not biblical) has made. Supplementing the notion that Christianity has been corrupted and misrepresented and caused many to have the negative viewpoint of the belief(example Westboro). But this is from alot of different beliefs, like Satanism; Satanism is not sacrificing the blood of the virgins to conjure demons or anything Slayer, Morbid Angel and Deicide wrote about that is just the stereotype that is approached to people who don't know anything about it. Because there are Christians do contradict there supposed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Ironically some of these instances are mentioned in the Bible (Though its been a while and I can't really remember where, just study the thing and find it out yourself whether you do or do not believe in it so you can get a better understanding of things). 

Maybe my approach is a bit different since I some sort study what the bible teaches and try to apply to my life and understanding of things personally. I know for a fact I am no 100% choir boy and no true Christian due to my actions. But I tried to approach this thing from my perspective with reason. Coming from a background where you live through Bible thumping and that caused the the individual to have a certain disdain towards religion. 

This guy should've defiantly broken down his little poem and tried to give understanding to people that don't know where it is coming from

But hey this turned into a whole "FUCK YOU MY OPINION/BELIEF IS FACT" debate and it leads to nothing but more problems.


----------



## Mr Violence (Jan 17, 2012)

I understand his angle but disagree with his message. "Don't get me wrong, I still love the church." Why? It breeds everything you're complaining about.

If you believe in it so much and have so little in common with the religion, detach yourself from it. Be the church.

Pointless rant. Just pretty words to make religion look cool to youths. I say this because over the past months I have gotten to know many young Christians and this kind of thinking is what they all think, without fail.

It's a new wave of brainwashing. Make your own fucking beliefs from careful analysis of what you read and hear and learn. If not, drive off a cliff.


----------



## Jakke (Jan 17, 2012)

This vid has now 16 million views... The fuck?

However, christian apologetics has always been popular....


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Jan 17, 2012)

^I _hate_ that term. Who's _apologising _for religion?



Mr Violence said:


> I understand his angle but disagree with his message. "Don't get me wrong, I still love the church." Why? It breeds everything you're complaining about.
> 
> If you believe in it so much and have so little in common with the religion, detach yourself from it. Be the church.
> 
> ...



This. I have no problem with religion and hey if it's what floats your boat then all power to you, but surely your own personal beliefs are not so insanely coincidentally aligned with a thousands-year old tradition/doctrine that you think "oh man, that's totally what I was thinking" ? Are they? Or are you just aligning yourself with something because it's easiest? Not being provocative, just something I think about a bit.

Also mfw when I get repped and the repper doesn't sign:






See left: SIGN YO REP. I say it so I can  you


----------



## Jakke (Jan 17, 2012)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> ^I _hate_ that term. There's no need to apologise for religion, surely.



That is not exactly what the term means, even if some religions _do_ have people apologizing for them...
An apologist is someone who rationalizes a religion, to interpret it for the masses, so to say. They are the PR-crew of a certain religion, who makes sure people have _the right_ interpretation.


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Jan 17, 2012)

Jakke said:


> That is not exactly what the term means, even if some religions _do_ have people apologizing for them...
> An apologist is someone who rationalizes a religion, to interpret it for the masses, so to say. They are the PR-crew of a certain religion, who makes sure people have _the right_ interpretation.



that makes sense, I remember doing that a lot before


----------



## Jakke (Jan 17, 2012)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> that makes sense, I remember doing that a lot before



They need to be called on it as soon as they try

Your meaning of the world is a lot more intuitive though, and I thought it meant that too before I looked it up


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jan 17, 2012)

I feel like he's just regurgitating the same idiotic sentiments of people who don't really want answers or resolve..just want to keep a smug grin while showing how "smart" they are. Religion itself doesn't do anything...idiots are the problem. If everyone of a religion was stone crazy then I would think it may be the religion, but since someone people benefit while others go nuts, I'm lead to believe the latter was already nuts and religion is just an excuse.

I don't blame "God", "Satan", "The Church", or "Religion"...I blame idiots. I can't prove how God, Satan, The Church, or Religion has done anything as a collective unit..but I can single out idiots for their stupidity. I think I'll go with the answer right in front of me instead of trying to being down the great mythical monster that people have painted religion to be.


----------



## leandroab (Jan 17, 2012)

Jesus is a raisin. Fuck a fruit basket.


----------



## Cynic (Jan 18, 2012)

"My Personal Relationship with Jesus: For those who can't agree with concepts and put The Bible into practice, but still want to get to Heaven."


----------

