# Headless Carvin 8 String Incoming?



## MetalBuddah

Jeff Kiesel posted this today on his Facebook and Instagram and it seems to suggest that Carvin is going to be popping out at least a headless 8 string for NAMM. If that is that case.....I am so pumped


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## teamSKDM

Gorgeous


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## Ocara-Jacob

As soon as I thought I was satisfied with my guitar collection... 

dammit.


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## leonardo7

How does a pic of a headstock hint at a headless guitar?


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## curlyvice

Potential major blow to the wallet.


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## Deadnightshade

@ the first two comments


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## MetalBuddah

leonardo7 said:


> How does a pic of a headstock hint at a headless guitar?



Why else would Jeff be holding just a headstock in his hand?


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## Dayn

Or they stuffed up a six-string headstock.


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## Pat_tct

> gorgeous


?
sorry but i don't see anything gorgeous in this pic. it's just a headstock.
I'll wait until we really see somethin'


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## Ibzzus

Pat_tct said:


> ?
> sorry but i don't see anything gorgeous in this pic. it's just a headstock.
> I'll wait until we really see somethin'



You kidding? That is the most beautiful headstock I have ever seen. Why wait to see a headless guitar when you have this gorgeous piece of wood right infront of you. Seriously GASing for my own Carvin headstock.


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## Go To Bed Jessica

leonardo7 said:


> How does a pic of a headstock hint at a headless guitar?



In woodwork circles, an X on a piece of wood indicates that it has been designated as waste to be cut away from the main piece.


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## jerm

mo of god this could be sickk


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## Konfyouzd




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## HighGain510

Headless 8 string from Carvin? If that happens, I am listening.  I still think it would be incredible if strandberg worked out a production deal with Carvin to make their US semi-custom Strandy stuff!  But if Carvin is doing their own headless stuff that could be baller as well!


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## thrsher

for some reason when i saw the headstock, i thought it was for a multiscale, i dont know why, but the way it looks to me, thats what i thought


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## SnowfaLL

About 3 months ago, Mike posted on the bbs a thread that had all of the new products Carvin is currently working on, but it was all in X's

XXXX XXXX's XX-XXXX X XXXXXX XXXX = GREG HOWE'S 24-FRET 6 STRING BOLT

and etc.. They had these in the hints:

X XXXXXX XXXXXXXX
X XXXXXX XXXXXXXX

Which someone guessed as 7 STRING HEADLESS and 8 STRING HEADLESS..

So, seems likely a 7 string is also coming.


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## HighGain510

Also based on that headstock (not sure if he's just using it as an example to throw folks off) I'd guess they're looking at the DC body shape then? Anyone besides me thinking an HH2-7 and/or HH2-8 would be an INCREDIBLE thing? I love the smaller body of the HH2 and I had asked a year ago about a 7 string HH2 and they said not now... if they change their stance on that, I'm down for an HH2-8!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

If it's a DC shape, I'm definitely not hating a modern-day take on the Steinberger M-series.


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## jephjacques

[pops boner]


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## narad

thrsher said:


> for some reason when i saw the headstock, i thought it was for a multiscale, i dont know why, but the way it looks to me, thats what i thought



That's what I thought as well. I could see it going both ways, but something about the angle of the cutoff made me think multiscale.


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## canuck brian

Go To Bed Jessica said:


> In woodwork circles, an X on a piece of wood indicates that it has been designated as waste to be cut away from the main piece.



Or for luthiers, it means the piece is scrap and destined for the bandsaw.


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## Cloudy

narad said:


> That's what I thought as well. I could see it going both ways, but something about the angle of the cutoff made me think multiscale.



multi-scale headless? god I hope so.


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## Hollowway

Yes please! Credit card in hand....


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## devwil

That would be incredible. Don't know that I would be able to get one anytime soon, but there's always the possibility of reckless spending.


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## XEN

Well.... It's been fun!


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## celticelk

XEN said:


> Well.... It's been fun!



Carvin's body shape will surely be more conservative than the XEN models, and almost certainly a double-cutaway. There's plenty of room for your designs, Eric! =)


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## Mike

I really hope it's the HH2 shape (or similar). I have too many super strats.


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## larry

I'm with matt, except I think ola already cut a deal with carvin on the down low. which is why we're not getting boden OS. 

/fantasy


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## wannabguitarist

canuck brian said:


> Or for luthiers, it means the piece is scrap and destined for the bandsaw.



When I saw the picture I thought "oh, it's a guitar that got screwed up"


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## celticelk

Mike said:


> I really hope it's the HH2 shape (or similar). I have too many super strats.



I hope so too, but given that (a) the superstrat shape is vastly more popular among 7/8-string guitarists, and (b) the HH shape would require Allan Holdsworth's approval, and he seemingly has little to no interest in ERGs, I'm not holding my breath.


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## Hollowway

So, assuming this IS happening, I'm getting an orange cali burst with a keisel FB, just like the GP run. Mm mm good!


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## thrsher

i hope this does happens so i can say .... strandberg!


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## Mike

celticelk said:


> I hope so too, but given that (a) the superstrat shape is vastly more popular among 7/8-string guitarists, and (b) the HH shape would require Allan Holdsworth's approval, and he seemingly has little to no interest in ERGs, I'm not holding my breath.



I hear ya, but Carvin doing a headless will more than likely use some custom/different style bridge other than a hipshot (seeing as that's what they know how to use on their headless design) To make that bridge work, you need to alter the body cutout and thus to some extent the shape.


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## Emperor Guillotine

leonardo7 said:


> How does a pic of a headstock hint at a headless guitar?


My thoughts exactly.


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## stevexc

Emperor Guillotine said:


> My thoughts exactly.



Well, it's tagged #namm2015, implying it's something new they're gonna be showing then. The shape isn't new, neither is the type of wood or number of tuners... but an 8-string headstock without a neck implies that there's now an 8-string neck without a headstock as well. Which either means there's a headless 8-string somewhere, or they scrapped a neck, took a picture, and posted it to Facebook for no real reason.

So really it's gotta be one of two things: an innocuous picture taken for the hell of it, or a headless 8-string.

Or something completely out there.


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## asher

Or trolling


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## stevexc

asher said:


> Or trolling



Definitely could be trolling


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## leonardo7

Can someone please explain to me why headless is such a big deal? Is it a weight thing, or a size thing? Or is it the looks? If its a weight thing then it doesnt really add up to much unless its chambered as well. Are we to assume that a headless guitar will also be a chambered guitar?


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## stevexc

leonardo7 said:


> Can someone please explain to me why headless is such a big deal? Is it a weight thing, or a size thing? Or is it the looks?



Here's a bunch of discussion on that topic for you.

Personally I'd want a headless for the portability aspect of it; shorter, lighter, and smaller. And I think it looks cool.

I hope in this case, if it IS an 8-string headless and if it's a different shape than the HH, that there's 6 (and 7) string versions as well - I've been loving extra strings less and less lately.


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## StevenC

leonardo7 said:


> Can someone please explain to me why headless is such a big deal? Is it a weight thing, or a size thing? Or is it the looks?



For me it's the weight and size. I have a back problem and a small apartment, so between those and travelling a lot with a guitar, I got a Strandberg.


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## leonardo7

Cool. Thanks!

My favorite aspects of my Strandberg CL7 aside from the Endurneck design is the weight and tone, but I always attributed both of those things to the hollow/chambered aspect. I can understand the idea of getting rid of the headstock as a second thought to helping balance out a heavily chambered guitar, but I do find it funny that this whole thing seems to not be about the headless aspect balancing out a chambered guitar but rather solely on the headless idea itself


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## Veritech Zero

Great... Just what I need. Right when I decide I could really use another HH2 with a trem...

I'm going to start a guitar savings account, one that automatically takes 50% of my salary every pay check haha. Maybe then I can afford 3 new Carvins haha. My only issue looking at them right now would be price... The HH2 is already one of the more expensive options from Carvin as far as electric guitars go, and I imagine a 7 and 8 string option would be more so.


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## leonardo7

Veritech Zero said:


> Great... Just what I need. Right when I decide I could really use another HH2 with a trem...
> 
> I'm going to start a guitar savings account, one that automatically takes 50% of my salary every pay check haha. Maybe then I can afford 3 new Carvins haha. My only issue looking at them right now would be price... The HH2 is already one of the more expensive options from Carvin as far as electric guitars go, and I imagine a 7 and 8 string option would be more so.



Yeah these prob wont be cheap. Part of me cant help but assume that Carvin is doing whatever they can to slowly introduce stuff that costs more and more and more, then when we are used to it their existing models will slowly creep up in price as well. They started with the Kiesel stuff and I dont expect these to be on the cheap side either.

My big questions are will it be chambered, how thick will the top be, will it be longer than 27", and will it be a multi-scale?


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## narad

leonardo7 said:


> Cool. Thanks!
> 
> My favorite aspects of my Strandberg CL7 aside from the Endurneck design is the weight and tone, but I always attributed both of those things to the hollow/chambered aspect. I can understand the idea of getting rid of the headstock as a second thought to helping balance out a heavily chambered guitar, but I do find it funny that this whole thing seems to not be about the headless aspect balancing out a chambered guitar but rather solely on the headless idea itself



I also think it's just more appropriate to have the tuners on the body. I don't find anything comfortable about the traditional way of tuning on the headstock -- seems like the wrong idea. Nothing's fun about tuning the treble-side strings on a non-inline headstock on an extended range guitar.


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## Emperor Guillotine

StevenC said:


> For me it's the weight and size. I have a back problem and a small apartment, so between those and travelling a lot with a guitar, I got a Strandberg.


For me, it's the weight and the size. I'm a little dude, so having a guitar like this that is lightweight, easy to carry, and balances perfectly are all advantages for me. After playing headless guitars you kind of realize how inconvenient a headstock is to the balance of the guitar.


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## sevenstringj

As long as there's a trem option, I couldn't care less whether it has a headstock.


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## Hollowway

leonardo7 said:


> Can someone please explain to me why headless is such a big deal? Is it a weight thing, or a size thing? Or is it the looks? If its a weight thing then it doesnt really add up to much unless its chambered as well. Are we to assume that a headless guitar will also be a chambered guitar?



It's because I can only buy guitars if I can convince the wife that, "I don't have one of those yet."


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## Hollowway

sevenstringj said:


> As long as there's a trem option, I couldn't care less whether it has a headstock.



Yeah, I was about to ask for a Floyd on the headless 8 - until I realized that ain't possible! But a Floyd option on the DC800 is still a huge desire for me as well.


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## Slunk Dragon

If there's seriously going to be a headless Carvin 8, I WILL PLUNGE INTO THE DEPTHS OF DEBT FOR THEE!!!


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## JoshuaKaroshi

Just shot myself 2.5k in the hole on a Vanquish build but DAMN is the thought of a headless 7/8 enticing


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## Spamspam

It won't be multiscale. Too much reworking of the machinery for a niche product. Headless is a possibility though.

My next was going to be a CT7, but if they make a headless, that one may be getting pushed back a bit, lol.


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## jwade

NickCormier said:


> X XXXXXX XXXXXXXX
> X XXXXXX XXXXXXXX


Not to take away from the hope for a headless 8, but at least one of those is:
X XXXXXX XXXXXXXX = 6 STRING BARITONE


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## Zsharp




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## Zsharp

for real though I hope they do 7's as well if this is happening!


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## sevenstringj

NickCormier said:


> They had these in the hints:
> 
> X XXXXXX XXXXXXXX
> X XXXXXX XXXXXXXX
> 
> Which someone guessed as 7 STRING HEADLESS and 8 STRING HEADLESS.





jwade said:


> Not to take away from the hope for a headless 8, but at least one of those is:
> X XXXXXX XXXXXXXX = 6 STRING BARITONE



You're both wrong. It's 3 ghetto hoochies & 1 bangin mamacita.


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## larry

Spamspam said:


> It won't be multiscale. Too much reworking of the machinery for a niche product. Headless is a possibility though.
> 
> My next was going to be a CT7, but if they make a headless, that one may be getting pushed back a bit, lol.



I think the problem would be more about not having enough cnc mills to spare one for slotting fanned frets, though they could buy a smaller mill to do just that... and when the fanned fret mill isn't running, they could change over to have it run something else, or just sell it if they scrap the project.

writing a program, saving it as .dxf, and using the same tooling from slotting their regular fret boards is only difficult if you don't have the right CNC experience. 

from what I've seen of their factory, they have a few HAAS VF-4ss (and Fadal I think) vertical milling centers which have a 40" x-axis travel. I'm guessing these are used to rough out bodies/necks and possibly rout out detailed cuts (because it is very feasible).

depending on how they prefer to run production, machine changeovers take anywhere from 5 minutes to 2 hours. for example, if they were to change over from dry milling wood to milling steel; that would require different work-holding, stronger tools, the use of coolant (wet milling) and programs offset with proper feed/speed rates required for steel.

I've never done changeovers from wood to steel, though I have set up for different metals and dry vs. wet milling. HAAS VMC's have live tooling and batch calibration functions which makes changeovers a snap. you just have to know your stuff when it comes to selecting tools, operating CNCs and proper work-holding.

If Jeff were to ask my opinion (and I'd gush like a school-girl), I'd suggest segregating the entire multi-scale/really wacky custom stuff operation to a single VMC and hire one machinist, then hand off milled components to whoever takes care of hand finishing/assembly. or he could even use the same mills set up for roughing to rough out the niche bodies, necks, neck-through blanks, etc. to gain time.

my point is, it's not as extremely difficult as some would have you believe. Carvin would just have to be willing to do/buy it.


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## mnemonic

Finally, someone who knows what they're talking about.


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## celticelk

My arguments against this being a multiscale instrument are (1) Carvin's not going to put too many new features into an instrument at once, lest they shrink the market potential below the break-even point for the necessary retooling; (2) Carvin has not generally introduced new features on ERGs (the baritone-scale DC7X is an obvious exception, unless you consider it an extension of the DC800, where a longer scale was a necessity rather than an interesting option). I would expect them to offer a single-scale headless at NAMM, and maybe a multiscale DC600 down the road, followed by 7/8 string versions, and then headless multiscales only if the market seems to warrant it. Alternatively, you could get headless multiscales a little faster if Holdsworth decides he wants a multiscaled HH3 after playing his Strandy for a while, but I think they'd test the waters with a 6 before moving to ERGs.


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## Slunk Dragon

^For just my two cents to add on to that, to me it appears that the multi-scale 7/8 string market seems to be significantly larger than a multi-scale 6 one, but that's just based off of all the guitars I see on here and around the internet. But that's just me.

I'd be cool with a headless, multi-scale or not. I'll fork over my non-existent money for that.


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## StevenC

celticelk said:


> My arguments against this being a multiscale instrument are (1) Carvin's not going to put too many new features into an instrument at once, lest they shrink the market potential below the break-even point for the necessary retooling; (2) Carvin has not generally introduced new features on ERGs (the baritone-scale DC7X is an obvious exception, unless you consider it an extension of the DC800, where a longer scale was a necessity rather than an interesting option). I would expect them to offer a single-scale headless at NAMM, and maybe a multiscale DC600 down the road, followed by 7/8 string versions, and then headless multiscales only if the market seems to warrant it. Alternatively, you could get headless multiscales a little faster if Holdsworth decides he wants a multiscaled HH3 after playing his Strandy for a while, but I think they'd test the waters with a 6 before moving to ERGs.



Holdsworth's Strandberg is straight scale, so I doubt it.


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## Alex Kenivel

sevenstringj said:


> You're both wrong. It's 3 ghetto hoochies & 1 bangin mamacita.



Sold. Only if they're headless though. Not tryna hear all that blabbah 

OT: I may be the odd man out, but I like headstocks..


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## littledoc

The moral here is that Jeff was wrong. Clearly, the pic _did_ need a caption! 



p.s. &#8212; You don't make a headless guitar by cutting the headstock off a regular guitar, and if it's a multiscale then the cut is going the wrong way. Occam's Razor says... busted guitar.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

littledoc said:


> p.s. &#8212; You don't make a headless guitar by cutting the headstock off a regular guitar, and if it's a multiscale then the cut is going the wrong way.



Sounds like you're taking the picture WAY to literally.


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## HighGain510

Slunk Dragon said:


> ^For just my two cents to add on to that, to me it appears that the multi-scale 7/8 string market seems to be significantly larger than a multi-scale 6 one, but that's just based off of all the guitars I see on here and around the internet. But that's just me.
> 
> I'd be cool with a headless, multi-scale or not. I'll fork over my non-existent money for that.



Agreed, multiscale instruments make more sense for the ERG world. Single scale 6'ers work just fine, it's where you're trying to balance the feel and tension on a lower note without compromising the feel and tone of the higher notes where a fan makes the most sense. For 7's and 8's (and beyond), that really works well when you want a 25" or 25.5" high end and a 26 through 28" fan on the low side. 1-2" seems optimal at most for the fan, once you get into the 3" territory playability becomes an issue unless you have super long fingers like Gilbert or Vai.  IF Carvin were to offer a multiscale instrument, I doubt it would start with the DC600 series personally, 7 or 8 string would be the best choice. That being said, I'd guess if they were going to do a headless ERG at NAMM it's likely not going to be fanned unless it's a huge surprise they've been planning (and I'd love that too ), but either way I'd love to see a headless 7 and 8 model from Carvin.


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## mnemonic

littledoc said:


> p.s.  You don't make a headless guitar by cutting the headstock off a regular guitar,



Why not? Its not cut off at the nut, judging by where the tuners are, he cut it off at least an inch from the nut. Ample room for string locks for a headless guitar. 

If he's just building a prototype to show off at NAMM to see if there's enough interest in a production model, I don't see why they would take the time to program a new headstock and body shape just yet. You just take a stock neck/body, and modify it. 

At least, that all makes more sense to me than, "hay guys look, i messed up a guitar #namm2015"


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## JamesM

littledoc said:


> p.s.  You don't make a headless guitar by cutting the headstock off a regular guitar, and if it's a multiscale then the cut is going the wrong way. Occam's Razor says... busted guitar.



It makes perfect sense to do so if you are experimenting. Nothing wrong with experimenting.


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## leonardo7

HighGain510 said:


> Agreed, multiscale instruments make more sense for the ERG world. Single scale 6'ers work just fine, it's where you're trying to balance the feel and tension on a lower note without compromising the feel and tone of the higher notes where a fan makes the most sense. For 7's and 8's (and beyond), that really works well when you want a 25" or 25.5" high end and a 26 through 28" fan on the low side. 1-2" seems optimal at most for the fan, once you get into the 3" territory playability becomes an issue unless you have super long fingers like Gilbert or Vai.  IF Carvin were to offer a multiscale instrument, I doubt it would start with the DC600 series personally, 7 or 8 string would be the best choice. That being said, I'd guess if they were going to do a headless ERG at NAMM it's likely not going to be fanned unless it's a huge surprise they've been planning (and I'd love that too ), but either way I'd love to see a headless 7 and 8 model from Carvin.



Yeah a multi scale 6 is just a gimmick and really only needed for guys who are tuning their 6 down lower than A which basically nobody does on a 6, at least I wasnt aware of enough players tuning low on a sixer to warrant such an offering from any guitar company.


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## celticelk

leonardo7 said:


> Yeah a multi scale 6 is just a gimmick and really only needed for guys who are tuning their 6 down lower than A which basically nobody does on a 6, at least I wasnt aware of enough players tuning low on a sixer to warrant such an offering from any guitar company.



If you can tell the difference between 24.75" and 25.5" scales, and want the high-string sweetness of the former with the bass-string tightness of the latter on one guitar, then a multi-scale 6 seems like an entirely non-gimmicky solution to me. Lowered tuning is hardly the only reason to fan the frets. (And to update your knowledge base: Bongripper tunes down to F on standard Gibson-scale guitars, so you've heard of it now.)


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## leonardo7

celticelk said:


> If you can tell the difference between 24.75" and 25.5" scales, and want the high-string sweetness of the former with the bass-string tightness of the latter on one guitar, then a multi-scale 6 seems like an entirely non-gimmicky solution to me. Lowered tuning is hardly the only reason to fan the frets. (And to update your knowledge base: Bongripper tunes down to F on standard Gibson-scale guitars, so you've heard of it now.)



Don't most 6 string players on this forum tune down as low as C these days? I can only see that being a good solution for the player who plays in standard tuning or maybe drop D. I cant imagine anyone who tunes to C standard or drop B on a 6 to want 24.75". But yes I totally agree, I thought about that and was gonna edit before your post. Going higher seems like a good idea if it matters to the player. The Strandberg Boden 6 is 25"-25.5"

And who is Bongripper


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## asher

Mastodon and Amon Amarth would also like to disagree about lower than C on 24.75" (drop A and B std, respectively) 

My Agile AL is in C right now with I think a 12-54 or 56 set from D'Addario. It feels just fine


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## celticelk

leonardo7 said:


> Don't most 6 string players on this forum tune down as low as C these days? I can only see that being a good solution for the player who plays in standard tuning or maybe drop D. I cant imagine anyone who tunes to C standard or drop B on a 6 to want 24.75". But yes I totally agree, I thought about that and was gonna edit before your post. Going higher seems like a good idea if it matters to the player. The Strandberg Boden 6 is 25"-25.5"
> 
> And who is Bongripper



For the Nth time, a public reminder:

(a) The posters here are likely not even a representative sampling of ERG players, let alone metal guitarists, and certainly not guitarists in general. 

(b) Plenty of metal players tune to drop B or lower on Gibson-scale instruments. Some of us even play 24.75"-scale 7-strings.

/reminder

Bongripper is a doom band. They're no more obscure in context than most of the tech-death and djent bands that get name-dropped here.


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## Shimme

leonardo7 said:


> Yeah a multi scale 6 is just a gimmick and really only needed for guys who are tuning their 6 down lower than A which basically nobody does on a 6


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## Dominoes282

A little birdie at Carvin a few months ago told me there was something big coming relating to eight strings. I think the hypetrain can keep climbing up that hill.


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## 7 Strings of Hate

Cart before horse.

Carvin is kicking so much ass since Jeff took over. We cant bitch about multiscale. I want Carvin to do good so I can keep buying their guitars and they keep making new designs. Lets get some more headless guitars first, then we can bitch about multiscale


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## jephjacques

celticelk said:


> For the Nth time, a public reminder:
> 
> (a) The posters here are likely not even a representative sampling of ERG players, let alone metal guitarists, and certainly not guitarists in general.
> 
> (b) Plenty of metal players tune to drop B or lower on Gibson-scale instruments. Some of us even play 24.75"-scale 7-strings.
> 
> /reminder
> 
> Bongripper is a doom band. They're no more obscure in context than most of the tech-death and djent bands that get name-dropped here.



Drop B and drop A sound AMAZING on Les Pauls 

Back on topic: I'd be surprised if Carvin went all the way to multiscale with their first headless 8. My hope is it's a headless variation on the SCB7 or TL70 shape, those would both look killer.


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## teamSKDM

heres some food for thought, is it POSSIBLE that they introduce a BRAND NEW body style? instead of variations of previous models? Discuss


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## Konfyouzd

I hope so. If they do, I imagine it will be similar to a Strandberg Boden or XEN DC-ish shape. That seems to be a pretty standard headless shape. The Holdsworths almost look like single cut Steinbergers to me.


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## thrsher

teamSKDM said:


> heres some food for thought, is it POSSIBLE that they introduce a BRAND NEW body style? instead of variations of previous models? Discuss



right now, i dont see it happen. everything is going too well for them with what they are doing. in the future, maybe


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## Konfyouzd

Well they JUST released the singlecut...


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## Hollowway

littledoc said:


> p.s. &#8212; You don't make a headless guitar by cutting the headstock off a regular guitar, and if it's a multiscale then the cut is going the wrong way. Occam's Razor says... busted guitar.



Hollowway's Razor - like Occam's Razor, but taking into account marketing. Because Occam may be surprised to learn that there is no giant white store where you can buy Progressive Insurance from Flo. Or that a cut off HS may be the best way to communicate a headless guitar.


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## celticelk

If they're doing a headless 8, it'll be a variation on the DC800 body. Carvin's not going to multiply the inherent risk of a headless design with an untested shape. One variable at a time.


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## teamSKDM

celticelk said:


> If they're doing a headless 8, it'll be a variation on the DC800 body. Carvin's not going to multiply the inherent risk of a headless design with an untested shape. One variable at a time.



well technically they did that when introducing the new healdess holdsworth correct? even tho it has a similar shape in the respect that both it and the fatboy are single cut kinda tele like, the dimensions are completely the different so in a sense they had to remake a new body from the ground up,im sure that took just as much work as making another new body style would, or slighty modified currently existing.

I personally think super strat headless is an ugly way to go, and alot of the headless market likes ergonomic or i guess "abnormal" body styles so i think if they did an ergonomic body style vs a super strat one would be more beneficial on their end. But thats just my opinion, i may be wrong who knows whats going on in the mind of jeff kiesel.


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## Captain Butterscotch

Could be relevant, could be irrelevant...


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## Konfyouzd

Hollowway said:


> Hollowway's Razor - like Occam's Razor, but taking into account marketing. Because Occam may be surprised to learn that there is no giant white store where you can buy Progressive Insurance from Flo. Or that a cut off HS may be the best way to communicate a headless guitar.



Clearly that's the guitar they're building Hollowway... Quit being silly. 

Why else would they have cut that headstock off so carefully? 

That pic above me does kinda look like a DC800 modded for a headless bridge... Hmm...


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## Hollowway

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Could be relevant, could be irrelevant...



Hot damn, that is definitely a cutout for tuners! Get your wallets ready, gentlemen!


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## insaneshawnlane

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Could be relevant, could be irrelevant...
> 
> http://scontent-a.cdninstagram.com/...-15/10859999_979970808697208_1587447205_n.jpg




NAMM can't come soon enough


----------



## fortisursus

Hmmm enticing. Just saying, if the hype lives up, I could see my first Carvin coming my way. NAMM seriously needs to get here...


----------



## celticelk

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Could be relevant, could be irrelevant...



Like I said, headless DC800.


----------



## celticelk

teamSKDM said:


> I personally think super strat headless is an ugly way to go, and alot of the headless market likes ergonomic or i guess "abnormal" body styles so i think if they did an ergonomic body style vs a super strat one would be more beneficial on their end. But thats just my opinion, i may be wrong who knows whats going on in the mind of jeff kiesel.



Not sure how true this is. Steinberger did a pretty brisk business in the GM models, which were superstrats, and the resurgence of headlessness in the ERG/shred/progressive community doesn't seem to have a whole lot to do with ergonomic designs as much as it does with "fvck, that's cool".


----------



## Joh

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Could be relevant, could be irrelevant...



Looks to be either set-neck or bolt-on from this pic.


----------



## Hollowway

jorona11 said:


> Looks to be either set-neck or bolt-on from this pic.



Whoa, nice catch! I didn't even notice that. Interesting. That involves a whole new CNC! Clearly, Jeff is not afraid of changing it up. And I applaud that.


----------



## XEN

Considering Jeff's appreciation for AAL and other headless friendly bands, this is a natural progression for Carvin. I'm excited to see these things go "mainstream." It was only a matter of time. 
It's forcing guys like me to step up our game, which will benefit all of us in the long run.
It's also about time that the majors (Ibanez, ESP, etc.) are caught lagging behind Carvin. Watch them play catch up. This is going to be fun


----------



## MetalBuddah

Well.....I guess I am not buying a new camera in 2015


----------



## MrHelloGuitar

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Could be relevant, could be irrelevant...



K I just flipped my shit. This is something I need in my life now.


----------



## shanejohnson02

My vote: It's probably a headless, 7- or 8-string Holdsworth. Close second goes to DC7/800.

EDIT: Ok, that picture seems to show a much sharper lower horn than a Holdsworth uses.

P.S.: Y CARVIN NO MAKE 24-FRET BOLTS YET!?!?


----------



## Jonathan20022

shanejohnson02 said:


> My vote: It's probably a headless, 7- or 8-string Holdsworth. Close second goes to DC7/800.
> 
> EDIT: Ok, that picture seems to show a much sharper lower horn than a Holdsworth uses.
> 
> P.S.: Y CARVIN NO MAKE 24-FRET BOLTS YET!?!?



^ That's coming during NAMM as well.

It's pretty obviously a headless, multiscale is up in the air but makes sense.


----------



## insaneshawnlane

I've been emailing Chris H. and all I'm gonna say is be ready, people. Be ready.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

I'm so extremely ready for an announcement on this.


----------



## Veritech Zero

my body is ready.


----------



## ChrisH

This has been a very entertaining thread to follow.


----------



## celticelk

shanejohnson02 said:


> My vote: It's probably a headless, 7- or 8-string Holdsworth.



Unless Holdsworth suddenly decides to start playing 7-strings, you're not gonna get a 7-string Holdsworth sig. That's part of the whole "signature model" thing.


----------



## ChrisH

celticelk said:


> Unless Holdsworth suddenly decides to start playing 7-strings, you're not gonna get a 7-string Holdsworth sig. That's part of the whole "signature model" thing.



Man, you have no idea how many emails I used to get daily about that


----------



## Dominoes282

Carvin right now


----------



## celticelk

ChrisH said:


> Man, you have no idea how many emails I used to get daily about that



I feel for you, man. Personally, I think the SCB7 would make a better platform for a headless singlecut 7, but then I've always thought the HH body was too small. Allan's rules, not my rules. =)


----------



## MetalBuddah

insaneshawnlane said:


> I've been emailing Chris H. and all I'm gonna say is be ready, people. Be ready.



Care to elaborate?


----------



## GunnarJames

And I thought ESP was going to take my business this January. 

If this is what I'm hoping it is, Carvin can have my business forever. 

Looks like I'll have an Ibby 8 for sale soon.


----------



## shanerct

Money in the bank, check. CC in hand, check. 

 Your move Carvin.


----------



## ncfiala

This is awesome news (if it is indeed true). Just ordered my 5th Carvin (TL70) and my next was going to be another DC800, but if this is out by next Summer I think I might get one of these instead.


----------



## MetalMike04

for any lefties wondering or caring, on Jeff's facebook page i asked to please make them left hand he said "will do"...

...so theres that 

lefty headless 8 comfirmed, but still no half life 3.


----------



## Hollowway

insaneshawnlane said:


> I've been emailing Chris H. and all I'm gonna say is be ready, people. Be ready.



Aw, man, that ain't right! Can you at least give us a riddle? Not the one about the walking on four legs in the morning thing - I already know that one. I want one that will give me the answer to what they are debuting!


----------



## Hollowway

I found this graph that shows the amount of innovation at Carvin since inception, which directly overlays my GAS and excitability regarding the company.


----------



## Jonathan20022

^ I seriously don't know why there wasn't that much interest prior, they've always been awesome. Had a Bolt for a long time that I loved picking up and just playing whenever I felt like it, helped my friend build a kit and finish it between me, him, and his wife. And I've played quite a few before my first custom order.

At the price and amount of options even before all this, I'm surprised people didn't flock to it before. The options now are of course welcome and much more bountiful


----------



## ovlott

ahhh a new carvin is coming! I knew this would happen as I recently just bought one... as always...


----------



## Tom Drinkwater

Jonathan20022 said:


> ^ I seriously don't know why there wasn't that much interest prior, they've always been awesome. Had a Bolt for a long time that I loved picking up and just playing whenever I felt like it, helped my friend build a kit and finish it between me, him, and his wife. And I've played quite a few before my first custom order.
> 
> At the price and amount of options even before all this, I'm surprised people didn't flock to it before. The options now are of course welcome and much more bountiful



Ditto. I've owned a number of Carvin's over the years and have played a bunch of new and old ones that didn't belong to me. I never understood why for years this forum was really not into them. I'm still not sure why people automatically yank the pickups out either, they're just as good as good as anything I've played from BKP.


----------



## Jonathan20022

The stock ones that I tried on the Bolt were pretty fantastic for being single coils, the bridge had been replaced with a stacked Tone Zone. It was a great all around guitar for sure.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

They're supposed to be releasing some new pickups next year. Judging by the clips I've heard, they sound a lot better than most mass-market ones, to be honest.


----------



## Ibzzus

All this just as I'm about to get my DC800... Headless and new pups... right in the wallet.


----------



## Veritech Zero

Hah. Right? Just as I get my Holdsworth lol. That's ok, I can always use more guitars. As for the pickups though. I thought the stock pickups that came with mine were fantastic... Just not what I wanted. I'm holding onto them as I may use them again in the future.


----------



## Tom Drinkwater

The only Carvin pickups I didn't like were the Holdsworth models. 

My DC135 has a C22b and two AP11's in it which is great combo. I absolutely love the ap11 singles and tbh60's as well which I have in my Bolt T. 

I've also used the M22SD and TBH60's with the Carvin active circuit, all of which produced some seriously cool sounds. I've used both the humbucking and single coil jazz bass pickups too and thought they were fantastic. 

I think people in general assume that these pickups are like some of the uninspiring units found in budget imports but in reality they are more like SD's, Dimarzio's etc in terms of sound quality. I'm really interested in checking out the new stuff when it comes out.


----------



## shanejohnson02

Hollowway said:


> I found this graph that shows the amount of innovation at Carvin since inception, which directly overlays my GAS and excitability regarding the company.



....it's not over 9000?


----------



## jephjacques

Tom Drinkwater said:


> The only Carvin pickups I didn't like were the Holdsworth models.
> 
> My DC135 has a C22b and two AP11's in it which is great combo. I absolutely love the ap11 singles and tbh60's as well which I have in my Bolt T.
> 
> I've also used the M22SD and TBH60's with the Carvin active circuit, all of which produced some seriously cool sounds. I've used both the humbucking and single coil jazz bass pickups too and thought they were fantastic.
> 
> I think people in general assume that these pickups are like some of the uninspiring units found in budget imports but in reality they are more like SD's, Dimarzio's etc in terms of sound quality. I'm really interested in checking out the new stuff when it comes out.



I can't speak to the quality of their passive offerings but MAN did I ever hate the actives they put in the DC800. Different strokes, etc., but those were some of my least favorite pickups I've ever heard, up to and including $99 Chinese import models.


----------



## Hollowway

shanejohnson02 said:


> ....it's not over 9000?



Ah, good catch! It's in Hollowway units. So, in fact, it is WAY over 9000. But Hollowway units are quite large, so it appears scaled down.


----------



## shanejohnson02

Hollowway said:


> Ah, good catch! It's in Hollowway units. So, in fact, it is WAY over 9000. But Hollowway units are quite large, so it appears scaled down.



Touche, good sir.

My chart pretty much looks the same. My 727 is the best electric guitar I've ever played, regardless of the number of strings. I'm still pretty excited to see what they reveal though.


----------



## Tom Drinkwater

jephjacques said:


> I can't speak to the quality of their passive offerings but MAN did I ever hate the actives they put in the DC800. Different strokes, etc., but those were some of my least favorite pickups I've ever heard, up to and including $99 Chinese import models.



I haven't had a chance to check out the active pickups out yet. I usually prefer passives so I probably wouldn't be crazy about them either.


----------



## ChrisH

Dominoes282 said:


> Carvin right now



This made my day! haha


----------



## MF_Kitten

Oh dear god. Oh dear goooooood.


----------



## HurrDurr

I'm pretty sure its a DC800 body. I mean, they CNC the whole thing, so yeah naturally they would get a fresh DC800 and chop the 'stock off along with a second trip to the saw to prep the base for the Hipshot headless bridge. At least it looks like a it would be Hipshot mount from the looks of that recent pic posted here in the thread. Partly because it looks like the don't want to get too crazy with a dedicated body shape for the headless just yet and also as a way around all that pesky and expensive retooling. The easier and cheaper it is for Carvin to produce this kinda stuff, the easier and cheaper it will be for us to get ahold of them. I mean, I'm not afraid of them cutting corners or anything since we all know the quality and hard work Carvin puts into their instruments, so I'm all for it. I'd love to see a single-cut down the road though. I haven't really been interested in an ERG for some time as I started getting deep into jazz and vintage guitars, but man does Jeff know how to tempt us.


----------



## ovlott

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Could be relevant, could be irrelevant...



Seeing this makes me think the headless 8 will look a tad like Trent Hafdahl's RG2228 with the rear cutout... except headless


----------



## HurrDurr

Oddly enough, it doesn't look like they cut out a chunk but more so it looks as if they've scaled the body down since the arm bevel looks fine. They scaled down the Fatboys to form the HH models, so I wouldn't put it past them.


----------



## 7stg

Hoping it has a 30 inch scale..



Here is what I fine works for body shapes for longer scale guitars for best fit

The lower rest needs to be as far forward as possible without limiting fret access. The lower horn should have just enough wood to be structurally sound, centered under the neck pickup is preferred. This makes the neck seem shorter when playing seated.

The butt of the guitar should be cut close to the bridge, at around 1 inch for a 30 inch scale. this makes the neck seem shorter when standing.

The upper horn should approximately be over the 12th fret. This gives a good balance when standing.


----------



## Shimme

^I'd love a 30" scale as well but I just don't see it happening with a headless right now. One thing at a time.


----------



## 7stg

Shimme said:


> ^I'd love a 30" scale as well but I just don't see it happening with a headless right now. One thing at a time.



but if I say


----------



## ovlott

HurrDurr said:


> Oddly enough, it doesn't look like they cut out a chunk but more so it looks as if they've scaled the body down since the arm bevel looks fine. They scaled down the Fatboys to form the HH models, so I wouldn't put it past them.



Still looks like a cutout rather than a shrunken body to me  

Going off of how carvin usually does things, and by the pic of the chopped headstock, I would think Jeff is just DIYing a regular DC800, because if they went through the process of CNCing a scaled down DC800, then they might as well have gone through the process of creating a design without the headstock in the first place.


----------



## ovlott

On a side note, Did anyone else notice that in the last pic, the body is CENTER JOINED?? all the way through to where the neck would join? Possible set-neck or bolt-on headless 8 is whats coming?

Edit: Nevermind, someone beat to it!


----------



## HurrDurr

I think they grabbed a CNC'd DC800 and just reworked the body. They are more than capable of shaping by hand if necessary, so again I think that would be the logical approach seeing as the main appeal of a headless is atributed to its weight and balancing characteristics and this body is not chambered as it is a center-joind block, so scaling down would give the guitar the aesthetically correct proportions given its lack of headstock and also have sufficient space for the bridge tuners to hang off. On a traditional DC800, the bridge is nearly half way up the body, but in that picture, the bridge mount has been drilled near the edge. That could either mean a 30" scale or their standard 27" either scaled down or with a cutaway. We'll soon see what it is I suppose. I'm excited!


----------



## stevo1

To me, it looks like the body and neck pieces are a solid piece of wood, conjoined in the middle. It looks like the grain lines of the two pieces of wood goes through to the neck, on the top. Either way, Im excited to see what's coming!


----------



## ChrisH




----------



## Electric Wizard

^


----------



## thrsher




----------



## insaneshawnlane

I think we're on the right track


----------



## Dominoes282

ChrisH said:


>


----------



## shanerct




----------



## mnemonic

He said _all_ we think we know is wrong, so I'm guessing that its actually a double-headed 6 string guitar with extra-wide string spacing.


----------



## Slunk Dragon

So it's a Warr guitar???


----------



## Andrenighthound

come on already give us a hint..


----------



## Andrenighthound

i'm only really interested in a headless 8 right now since the DC800 I own is just amazing! I really don't see another reason for myself to try to out do my DC800 unless it's a 8 string headless... or unless of course it was a longer scale or fanned frets..


----------



## Slunk Dragon

I'm just going to be constantly refreshing, hoping for a New Year update on this.

Yes, I'm that excited. xD


----------



## Slunk Dragon

YOU DIRTY TEASE


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## Zhysick

We NEED to know!!!!!!


----------



## Oreo-Tan




----------



## JaxoBuzzo

It is January 2nd and I'm tired of refreshing this page!


----------



## Hollowway

I don't mind the bumps. It gives me another chance to look at the hot mom in Chris' post above. Giggity!


----------



## Dominoes282

Waiting patiently...


----------



## kevdes93

i seriously think this is the most hyped ive been over any guitar related thing since perhaps ever


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

Just give us what we want!


----------



## celticelk

JaxoBuzzo said:


> Just give us what we want!



Because we all agree on what that is....


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

celticelk said:


> Because we all agree on what that is....



Do we not all agree that we want this model to be unveiled?


----------



## celticelk

JaxoBuzzo said:


> Do we not all agree that we want this model to be unveiled?



As someone who plays 7s but not 8s, and who is notoriously anti-superstrat, I can't say that my pants are tight with the anticipation, no. I'm glad that you guys are excited, but it doesn't really do it for me.


----------



## Overtone

Hollowway said:


> I don't mind the bumps. It gives me another chance to look at the hot mom in Chris' post above. Giggity!



Ummm.... THAT's a turtle!


----------



## Mr_Metal_575

Boners are coming to SSO the day Carvin unveils a headless guitar for sure. I already have one hahahaha
BUMPITY


----------



## Jonathan20022

If something like this were to be released, I'd hope some of the interest translated to actual sales and people ordering guitars


----------



## jwade

It would be amazing if this was all just an extremely long April Fools joke from Jeff and Chris


----------



## celticelk

jwade said:


> It would be amazing if this was all just an extremely long April Fools joke from Jeff and Chris



...except for the ensuing wrist-slitting by despondent wanna-headless posters....


----------



## InfestedRabite

celticelk said:


> ...except for the ensuing wrist-slitting by despondent wanna-headless posters....



pretty sure you have to decapitate yourself to properly express grief about no headless guitars...


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

What I'm really baffled by is the post by Chris H. from Carvin doubting everything we know about the model, what gives? So, could they at least confirm it's a headless 8? 

I don't get all the secrecy, really pointless IMHO if it's because of NAMM (1/22/15). So, another Carvin competitor (wondering who would that be really) would 'steal' the idea, secure wood supplies and make CNC designs in less than 3 weeks to launch a headless 8 line and monopolize the 'highly profitable' headless 8-string guitar market, yeah right.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> What I'm really baffled by is the post by Chris H. from Carvin doubting everything we know about the model, what gives? So, could they at least confirm it's a headless 8?
> 
> I don't get all the secrecy, really pointless IMHO if it's because of NAMM (1/22/15). So, another Carvin competitor (wondering who would that be really) would 'steal' the idea, secure wood supplies and make CNC designs in less than 3 weeks to launch a headless 8 line and monopolize the 'highly profitable' headless 8-string guitar market, yeah right.



Because that's when they, as a business want to unveil their designs. The Gaming Industry has E3, and Tech Industry has CES, etc. 

That's part of why showing teasers is something a lot of companies don't do anymore. They didn't have to show anything and unveil whatever they have in store at NAMM, but I think it's cool that they hint and are active on here talking to us about everything about Carvin.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I don't get all the secrecy, really pointless



Because business?


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I actually think Carvin is doing an amazing job of marketing these days. These teasers are getting us all talking about Carvin guitars. What more could a company want? I think it's clear that we're getting a headless 8 bolt. The rest is kind of up in the air, but I doubt the teaser shots would be done to intentionally mislead us. 

What I fail to understand is why Carvin actually delivers us guitars two months after taking our money, rather than make excuses and eventually just steal the money and disappear. I thought that's what the much hyped SSO luthiers were supposed to do? Ah well, dare to be different I guess!


----------



## mnemonic

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Because business?


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Because business?





Jonathan20022 said:


> Because that's when they, as a business want to unveil their designs. The Gaming Industry has E3, and Tech Industry has CES, etc.
> 
> That's part of why showing teasers is something a lot of companies don't do anymore. They didn't have to show anything and unveil whatever they have in store at NAMM, but I think it's cool that they hint and are active on here talking to us about everything about Carvin.



Video gaming is a multi-billion dollar market, so marketing hype & secrecy is understandable, specially that hype is sometimes a great part of the product sold 

I don't think that these same rules apply verbatim to the 8-string market (c'mon guys). From the size of the market, down to the customers & their reasons to buy a headless guitar, I don't think hype is really part of the equation. It doesn't matter how much hype if I can't afford the product, or even like it. After all, we're not a bunch of 13 yr olds, are we ?

Now, if someone from Carvin can confirm or deny that it is indeed a headless 8 model (not just one run off), this customer will greatly appreciate it!


----------



## Electric Wizard

Why would the rules not apply to this market? You are literally participating in building hype, and proving that it works, by posting in this thread.

From Carvin's perspective, 5 minutes worth of instagramming gets them an active discussion on the biggest forum for extended range. Why would they not do some teasers and post here? They're going to release things at NAMM regardless, it makes sense to have people excited and thinking about ordering already.


----------



## Hollowway

Ah, you are a better man than I if you can resist marketing hype. I've bought stuff based on hype. Shoot, some brands exist almost solely on hype. Blackmachine comes to mind. 

Plus, it's in a business' best interest to get potential customers talking about their product. This thread alone proves that Carvin's methods are doing just that. Even if they only gain one customer, it's worth it because it costs them nothing. We do the work for them.


----------



## celticelk

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I don't think that these same rules apply verbatim to the 8-string market (c'mon guys). From the size of the market, down to the customers & their reasons to buy a headless guitar, *I don't think hype is really part of the equation*. It doesn't matter how much hype if I can't afford the product, or even like it. After all, we're not a bunch of 13 yr olds, are we ?



Really? You've been posting here for how long? =)


----------



## sevenstringj

ss.org at Carvin headquarters:


----------



## SnowfaLL

Electric Wizard said:


> Why would the rules not apply to this market? You are literally participating in building hype, and proving that it works, by posting in this thread.
> 
> From Carvin's perspective, 5 minutes worth of instagramming gets them an active discussion on the biggest forum for extended range. Why would they not do some teasers and post here? They're going to release things at NAMM regardless, it makes sense to have people excited and thinking about ordering already.



Not to mention that hyping/prepping for a Headless 8 string by teasing (which the pictures of a cut off DC800 headstock imply greatly) makes people start saving their hard earned monies for the reveal at NAMM. 

Giving people 2-3~ months to prepare for the release can be a good thing, but it can also be dangerous as people might lose interest and go another direction if it is hyped too long with no progress (EBMM Majesty??) but Carvin seems to understand this and does not push their rumors past the 3-4 month threshold before releasing.


----------



## superash

Always gotta love this time of year.
It is always tense and full of NAMM speculation.
I personally hope Carvin try out a new body shape with this headless hype as they've been killing it over the last two years and it'd be nice to see someone really push the boat out.


----------



## shanerct

superash said:


> I personally hope Carvin try out a new body shape with this headless hype as they've been killing it over the last two years and it'd be nice to see someone really push the boat out.



Same here. I'm not expecting a strandberg or skervesen type body but I dont think Carvin would just take a DC800 and add the headless hardware. Im excited to see what NAMM has in store.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I find myself curious as to why people get so moist over a guitar without a headstock. Of course it's a Carvin so quality would be damn good and affordable, but why do people cream their jeans over such a silly feature, especially when conventional tuning machines are more comfortable. I never really liked the feel of the tuners on headless guitars.


----------



## stevexc

Chokey Chicken said:


> I find myself curious as to why people get so moist over a guitar without a headstock. Of course it's a Carvin so quality would be damn good and affordable, but why do people cream their jeans over such a silly feature, especially when conventional tuning machines are more comfortable. I never really liked the feel of the tuners on headless guitars.



Because some people prefer the aesthetic, weight, balance, portability, size, etc. of headless guitars.


----------



## celticelk

Chokey Chicken said:


> I find myself curious as to why people get so moist over a guitar without a headstock. Of course it's a Carvin so quality would be damn good and affordable, but why do people cream their jeans over such a silly feature, especially when conventional tuning machines are more comfortable. I never really liked the feel of the tuners on headless guitars.



Given that I've seen people on this forum losing their shit over guitar releases that are spec-for-spec the same as an existing guitar from that manufacturer, but in a NEW COLOR!!!1!, this seems like an entirely reasonable thing to be excited about.


----------



## Spacestationfive

Chokey Chicken said:


> I find myself curious as to why people get so moist over a guitar without a headstock. Of course it's a Carvin so quality would be damn good and affordable, but why do people cream their jeans over such a silly feature, especially when conventional tuning machines are more comfortable. I never really liked the feel of the tuners on headless guitars.



Weight and Balance!!!!!!! On a nice 5 piece neck from Carvin you won't need to touch those tuners very often anyways...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

stevexc said:


> Because some people prefer the aesthetic, weight, balance, portability, size, etc. of headless guitars.



This. I played a Steinberger Synapse, and it felt comfortable as .... and was very, very balanced. 



celticelk said:


> Given that I've seen people on this forum losing their shit over guitar releases that are spec-for-spec the same as an existing guitar from that manufacturer, but in a NEW COLOR!!!1!, this seems like an entirely reasonable thing to be excited about.



Oh and this too.


----------



## Hollowway

Chokey Chicken said:


> I find myself curious as to why people get so moist over a guitar without a headstock. Of course it's a Carvin so quality would be damn good and affordable, but why do people cream their jeans over such a silly feature, especially when conventional tuning machines are more comfortable. I never really liked the feel of the tuners on headless guitars.



Perhaps I haven't made myself clear:

Wife: You got ANOTHER guitar?!
Me: No, no, wait, this one is HEADLESS! Look, see how these ones have the strings going up to the top around this little metal stumps? This one doesn't. I don't have one of these yet. I'm not going to buy something I already have! That would be silly! But this. THIS. This is something I don't yet have, so that's why I had to get it.


Works every time, my brutha. Works every time. _Hollowway confidently walks out and closes the door._


----------



## Veritech Zero

Hollowway said:


> Perhaps I haven't made myself clear:
> 
> Wife: You got ANOTHER guitar?!
> Me: No, no, wait, this one is HEADLESS! Look, see how these ones have the strings going up to the top around this little metal stumps? This one doesn't. I don't have one of these yet. I'm not going to buy something I already have! That would be silly! But this. THIS. This is something I don't yet have, so that's why I had to get it.
> 
> 
> Works every time, my brutha. Works every time. _Hollowway confidently walks out and closes the door._



Uh oh... This argument won't work for me...


----------



## Hollowway

Veritech Zero said:


> Uh oh... This argument won't work for me...



Because you already have a headless? Or because you are wifeless?


----------



## Veritech Zero

Hah! Unfortunately (also fortunately) I already have a Carvin Holdsworth. So I can't even play the, "I don't own a Carvin" card either. Though... Even though I have 8's and 7's I don't have Headless 8's and 7's... Hm...

On a side note, I keep on checking back with this thread hoping beyond a hope that there will be another morsel of information. Carvin, why do you torture us so!!!


----------



## Chokey Chicken

Makes sense, I reckon. Especially in reference to the aesthetics, as the world could always use a new non-super strat guitar. Still not my personal cup o' tea, but who says it needs to be for others to enjoy it? Apologies if it came off as judgmental, I really was curious what the hubbub was about.


----------



## HighGain510

stevexc said:


> Because some people prefer the aesthetic, weight, balance, portability, size, etc. of headless guitars.



That's actually all of the reasons I like headless guitars.  I don't even play 8's really, but I'm still excited to see what they're putting out if it's another headless model! Might be able to talk myself into one as I don't have an 8 or an HH2 anymore, so if they have a decent headless 8-string coming out that might be enough to force me to pull the trigger finally... been waffling towards the end of the year since I knew NAMM was only a few months away and didn't want to order something only to see something else I wanted more and go "D'OH!!!"   

Is it January 22nd yet?!


----------



## MF_Kitten

Whatever they'll be showing, I'll be there snapping pics and drooling


----------



## MatthewK

Chokey Chicken said:


> I find myself curious as to why people get so moist over a guitar without a headstock. Of course it's a Carvin so quality would be damn good and affordable, but why do people cream their jeans over such a silly feature, especially when conventional tuning machines are more comfortable. I never really liked the feel of the tuners on headless guitars.



Tuning stability and accuracy are big ones for me. Ease of changing strings if you use double ball strings. Not to mention the possibility for a light weight and more portable instrument. 

The initial intrigue is the obvious lack of a headstock. But, personally, after using one the appeal really is in the practical benefits of the design. I would have zero interest in a headless guitar that uses traditional tuning machines.


----------



## celticelk

ChrisH said:


>



...it's not really a new model, but instead a headless option for a substantial number of existing Carvin models? (Including, maybe, non-superstrats?)

*That* would get me excited.


----------



## ChrisH

mnemonic said:


>



This made me LOL causing some of my coworkers to look at me funny.


----------



## Zhysick

My headless guitar (in process at the moment) is a 31" scale length, 8 string and I can disassemble the neck and body and put them into a 40x55x20cm handbag and travel with it in airplane without the "sorry, even if it is your musical instrument is bigger than the maximum measures so you have to check-out them and be all the travel worried about your guitar lost in the airport or maybe broken"... you know...

This point plus the aesthetics, better balance...


----------



## Hollowway

Zhysick said:


> My headless guitar (in process at the moment) is a 31" scale length, 8 string and I can disassemble the neck and body and put them into a 40x55x20cm handbag and travel with it in airplane without the "sorry, even if it is your musical instrument is bigger than the maximum measures so you have to check-out them and be all the travel worried about your guitar lost in the airport or maybe broken"... you know...
> 
> This point plus the aesthetics, better balance...



Just be careful how you talk about it at the airport:

"Excuse me, officer, but I overheard that man over there saying he had a headless body that he took apart so he could fit it in that duffle bag! He's a serial killer and will come after us all!"


----------



## Zhysick

Hollowway said:


> Just be careful how you talk about it at the airport:
> 
> "Excuse me, officer, but I overheard that man over there saying he had a headless body that he took apart so he could fit it in that duffle bag! He's a serial killer and will come after us all!"



HAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAH!!!!

Good thing I am traveling from Spain to Ireland (so I don't have to speak in english in the check-out/security control) and "we" (the spaniards) don't translate the word 'headless'...

But yes, you have a point there... for sure is not good to say "I have a separate neck and body in my bag" in an airport 

You win! Nurgle approves your guitar... Khorne approves your comment up there!!


----------



## SnowfaLL

Every day for the next 10 days.. picture hints on facebook! Probably is a headless, but could be something completely different.


----------



## ovlott

well the guitar in that pic is a sevenstring, so that throws me off already from the 8 string pics we've seen. 

on the other hand, doesn't Darth Vader get his head chopped off at the end of the Star Wars movies? (please correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't seen them in ages.)

So maybe "Vader" is the name of Carvin's new headless series...?


----------



## SnowfaLL

just guessing - the word "Vader" is uncovered, but the space directly to the left of it is not.. There is a potential for the full word to be "Invader" or something else.. But if you say that about Darth Vader, that would make sense.


----------



## Zhysick

Nope. He died, but his head never was chopped off. Luke let him die "peacefully" while Vader, in his final moments, asked Luke to take off his helmet so he can see him with his own eyes. Vader died on the floor, without the helmet. Then, Luke burned his helmet as a bury ceremony... maybe you remember the helmet on the fire and that's why you think his head was chopped off...

I bet for a V shaped 7 string.

PS: Star Wars fanboy here... hahahaha!


----------



## littledoc

Zhysick said:


> Nope. He died, but his head never was chopped off. Luke let him die "peacefully" while Vader, in his final moments, asked Luke to take off his helmet so he can see him with his own eyes. Vader died on the floor, without the helmet. Then, Luke burned his helmet as a bury ceremony... maybe you remember the helmet on the fire and that's why you think his head was chopped off...
> 
> I bet for a V shaped 7 string.
> 
> PS: Star Wars fanboy here... hahahaha!



Well, if you want to get picky, Luke does decapitate Vader during his hallucination on Dagobah before seeing his own face in the helmet...


----------



## Hollowway

> . and "we" (the spaniards) don't translate the word 'headless'...



Sure you do. You have la guitarra falta cabeza, no? Guitarras con los cabezas son los cabrones!

On topic: If it is a 7V, flyingV is going to be a very happy camper. He's been clamoring for one for ages!


----------



## ovlott

littledoc said:


> Well, if you want to get picky, Luke does decapitate Vader during his hallucination on Dagobah before seeing his own face in the helmet...



THATS the scene I remember Vader being headless! ah well, I'm literally just throwing out guesses at the moment to reinforce my belief in Carvin headless 7's/8's.

Strangely enough, I have never been interested in acquiring a headless 7/8 string guitar, but for some reason the fact Carvin may be doing it has me selling gear left and right so I'll have enough for a decent deposit after NAMM.


----------



## Hollowway

^ Me too. Carvin doing it means we can get it for under $2000. Goody I getting another 8 string headless for that price! I personally can't wait for this to be released.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

This suspense is awful. I am relieved, however, if that picture is a headless teaser after all, to see 7 strings instead of 8. Although, if it is...RIP headstock-less DC800.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

The name "Vader" though has got 7 string V written all over it though. Which would still be awesome.


----------



## Dominoes282

As probably the only person in the world who doesn't like flying V's, my credit card might be safe here... but let's not jump to conclusions.

Ahem... so why I don't like flying V's, because I almost always sit down to play and I play at an angle where the neck is always flat to the ground. The fV fits pretty much fits none of these requirements. Oh well


----------



## Electric Wizard

So I have lots of time on my hands and did a little sleuthing. Here's the teaser image overlaid with that of a DC7x:







I lined up the images by the frets and inlays. 

Gonna go ahead and say that I think this shows it's a 27" scale. Also it's pretty clear that the body and headstock are not completely in frame, so I'm guessing it's not a V.

[boring photo interpretation nerd stuff]
The strings and fretboards are slightly off in alignment between the two photos, although I believe this to be a viewing angle thing. My hunch is that the teaser photo is slightly distorted from having the camera not perfectly straight above the guitar as in the DC pic. The other possibility is that it has some kind of bridge that necessitates a slightly wider neck and string spacing, but I'm guessing not.
[/nerd stuff]


----------



## sartorious

Today's facebook pic includes part of the body. There's enough of a curve on the bottom to indicate a cutaway for headless tuning machines.

http://www.facebook.com/carvinguita...2349302122775/905939796097051/?type=1&theater

So maybe Vader will be the name for the headless 7 & 8 (and maybe 6 down the road?).


----------



## Jonathan20022




----------



## Alex Kenivel

Oh please be a heart shaped V!


----------



## wannabguitarist

Yeah that's a headless


----------



## Mike

Strap button placement looks to be about where the hh2's are. It's headless.


----------



## ramses

Mike said:


> Strap button placement looks to be about where the hh2's are. It's headless.



Yup, headless. But from that picture it is possible to tell that it is not just an HH2 with 7 strings. The part below the strapbutton is different than an HH2.


----------



## Mike

Well there can't be an ERG hh2 because of signature model licensing. Not unless Holdsworth starts playing 7's and/or 8's.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

YES!


----------



## Mr_Metal_575

Yup that's a headless 

YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAHH


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I have literally nothing to gain from this yet I'm still shouting at my screen for a reveal. The suspense is killing me.


----------



## Hollowway

I am almost assuredly going to order a headless 8 (provided it's what I think it is). I can't wait!


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

I'm certain it's not a Holdsworth style body, but a single cut would be so badass.


----------



## Wildebeest

Boy oh boy I like that green


----------



## larry

oh man, please be a sexier strandberg. jeff, don't let me down.


----------



## MrHelloGuitar

OMG YAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. I'm so glad I started saving money.


----------



## terron

like this, but seven strings?


----------



## MF_Kitten

OK, so let's think about this...

Carvin said it's a new design. This could just be "it's 7 and 8 string now!" in regards to the Holdsworth shape, but I think it's more likely that it's a new shape.

Looking at that picture, it's obvious that it's headless. However, I am uncertain if it's a singlecut. The upper bout would have to meet the body really high up on the fretboard, or it could be a dual cutaway. The upper horn could possibly be just outside of the edges of that fretboard "slice" of the picture there.

I'm excited! However, I'll be at NAMM to look at it in person, so I can wait!


----------



## 7stg

I'll be getting one of these bullpup guitars. 27 inch scale is a win for 7. If they will make a 30 inch option for the 8 I'll get one of those too.


----------



## celticelk

JaxoBuzzo said:


> I'm certain it's not a Holdsworth style body, but a single cut would be so badass.



It's not going to be a singlecut. If you're launching a 7-string headless, the smart move is to make it a superstrat, and I'm sure that's what Carvin will do.


----------



## Zhysick

Oh yes... Headless... YES!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Captain Butterscotch said:


>



If this is it, it's most definitely a superstrat.


----------



## Dominoes282

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If this is it, it's most definitely a superstrat.



Superstrat + HH2. Oh yes.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

That's not it. That's the signature guitar of someone who doesn't play 7's/8's. I wish you guys would let that go.


----------



## ChrisH

^^^^^^^^^^^^


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Huh, I was wondering why no oine brought that back up.


----------



## Hollowway

Alan's fingers are too damn long to need an ERG. He just stretches the 7 frets and does it linearly. Now if he was a little person, we'd have our 8 string signature!


----------



## jwade

6, 7, 8 string models hey?


----------



## ChrisH




----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Today's reveal is such a troll.


----------



## Konfyouzd

^


----------



## InfestedRabite

wish they'd done the reveal in a less ugly colour


----------



## celticelk

InfestedRabite said:


> wish they'd done the reveal in a less ugly colour



I'm slowly learning to accept that Carvin's idea of what constitutes good promotional aesthetic choices is simply diametrically opposed to mine. At least they aren't the only colors the guitars come in.


----------



## asher

celticelk said:


> I'm slowly learning to accept that Carvin's idea of what constitutes good promotional aesthetic choices is simply diametrically opposed to mine. At least they aren't the only colors the guitars come in.



Certainly attention-grabbing though!


----------



## jwade

Just had a fun thought. What if it's basically a Duality with the Holdsworth/steinberger butt end?


----------



## asher

jwade said:


> Just had a fun thought. What if it's basically a Duality with the Holdsworth/steinberger butt end?



I'm sure plenty of the individual employees are up to that, but I don't know about the company itself


----------



## noUser01

I'm gonna start saving up. Definitely down for an 8 string headless Carvin. Soooooo down.


... but not in that color.


----------



## Konfyouzd

^ 

I'd even take it in that color. But I agree on the saving... The time has come.


----------



## porknchili

That settles it. I'll get a slotted 27 fret fingerboard and put that on the headless guitar I built and save up for the vader. There goes ANY AND ALL hope of getting a 27 fret guitar now... This has peaked my interest too damn much.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

asher said:


> Certainly attention-grabbing though!



Plus once it's fully revealed, you can just green-screen anything you want on there. 

I've gotta say, the fact that it is in fact 6, 7, and 8 strings tickles my fancy. The more options the merrier. If it is indeed a headless, I may find myself in possession of one in the future.  As far as cost and ease of access are concerned, Carvin is pretty much the only place to go for a headless 6/7/8. No need to buy used, wait forever, and/or spend _that_ much money.


----------



## ferret

I guess I'm the only one who likes the green, especially with black hardware and ebony fretboard.  Matching inlays (Jeff has them), mmmmm.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

ferret said:


> I guess I'm the only one who likes the green, especially with black hardware and ebony fretboard.  Matching inlays (Jeff has them), mmmmm.



It reminds me of those god aweful Dean budget basses, or the BC Rich gunslingers. Both of which I thought were insanely cheesy looking. With a darker green though, I'd be a happy camper.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

ferret said:


> I guess I'm the only one who likes the green, especially with black hardware and ebony fretboard.  Matching inlays (Jeff has them), mmmmm.



Carvin Green Dot


----------



## Shimme

ferret said:


> I guess I'm the only one who likes the green, especially with black hardware and ebony fretboard.  Matching inlays (Jeff has them), mmmmm.



It's loud and obnoxious as fvck.

I love it


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Actually, that latest reveal might be revealing a little more than we realize. Granted the only thing it added was that it's available in 6, 7, and 8 strings, but think about that for a second. The DC800 is 27", the DC7X is 27", but they currently don't offer any 27" 6 strings. It might be reasonable to assume that if they're going to offer it in three configurations, they could all be the same scale, which would mean Carvin will finally offer a baritone sixer. I don't know if that's something too many around here are clamoring for, but we've all heard people talk about trying 7 and going back to 6 because they just didn't get along with 7 strings, so there's bound to be room for it in the market.

All speculation, of course. It's just what came to mind.


----------



## jwade

Pretty sure Jeff or Carvin confirmed a 6 string baritone for this year on either Facebook or Instagram a couple months ago.

*edit: 


> Jeff Kiesel
> December 8, 2014 ·
> So all you baritone 6 string players out there, we do get a lot of requests for these so...... IF we were to do one, what scale length would you want? Please don't say multi-scale lol


----------



## sartorious

Grand Moff Tim said:


> The DC800 is 27", the DC7X is 27", but they currently don't offer any 27" 6 strings. It might be reasonable to assume that if they're going to offer it in three configurations, they could all be the same scale, which would mean Carvin will finally offer a baritone sixer.



Yep, that'd make sense. It seems fitting for "Vader" to be kind of big and bad whatever the number of strings. 27" already works in that way for 8 and 7 strings, but it would really make the 6 string stand out. That, and maybe it would keep production simple with one scale.


----------



## Slunk Dragon

I HAVE BEEN GONE FOR FIVE DAYS. WHAT DID I MISS???


----------



## ferret

I don't know if this is happening, but what I'd really like to see is that it's literally one model, "Vader", and in the builder, you pick the string count, just as you do the bridge, left/right hand, etc.

And I'd love to see them move towards that with all models. DC600 becomes just "DC" or something, and you pick 6/7/8 in builder. DC7X? Becomes DCX, and you pick 6/7/8. Vader? Pick 6/7/8 in builder. SCB? They add 8 and.... ok haha I know that's not happening but you get the idea.


----------



## SnowfaLL

Incase anyone isn't following the other thread


----------



## stevexc

ferret said:


> I don't know if this is happening, but what I'd really like to see is that it's literally one model, "Vader", and in the builder, you pick the string count, just as you do the bridge, left/right hand, etc.



I doubt it, I think it'll be more like how the basses are set up. You've got the Vanquish, Xccelerator, etc. as individual models, but each one has 3 sub models (ie. X44, X54, X64) for each string configuration. Probably easier for them to organize it that way.


----------



## ferret

stevexc said:


> I doubt it, I think it'll be more like how the basses are set up. You've got the Vanquish, Xccelerator, etc. as individual models, but each one has 3 sub models (ie. X44, X54, X64) for each string configuration. Probably easier for them to organize it that way.



That's what I expect, but I think it'd be cool if they could rework things so each model spanned all string configurations. Or is that just a secret plan for me to get them to make a CS7? Hmmmmmm.


----------



## ItWillDo

SnowfaLL said:


> Incase anyone isn't following the other thread



I asked the guys over at D-Wave to use their quantum computer to reverse engineer graphical manipulation done by photoshop as a Turing-competence request. 

According to their 512-qubit monster, the shape should look like this:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/SgtCardboard/2672_image_127.jpg



Spoiler



I'm sorry, please don't kill me.


----------



## HaloHat

Hollowway said:


> On topic: If it is a 7V, flyingV is going to be a very happy camper. He's been clamoring for one for ages!



 note to self, don't make Hollowway mad, has good memory 

FlyingV @ Carvin bbs = HaloHat here 

Would kill for 27" scale V seven string from Carvin.

Will buy the new 7 headless [you guys are not still at the "will they if they point right lol] with "customer supplied woods". Unless some rumors about another Carvin NAMM 2015 surprise is true...


----------



## celticelk

HaloHat said:


> Would kill for 27" scale V seven string from Carvin.



Huh. That took longer than I expected.


----------



## HaloHat

celticelk said:


> Huh. That took longer than I expected.



At least you didn't let anyone down  Dam Celtic, not even one post between haha...


----------



## Pilgrim of the Dark

If its a headless 7/8 string, I'm going to cry! I've been wanting a headless 8 for so damn long, but the ridiculous prices most builders charge for one coupled with the ridiculously long wait times and/or unavailability of build spots has kept me away from the market.

Please, please, please, please Carvin!!! Finally, an affordable, high quality headless 8 with a very short build time!


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

There's very little doubt at this point that it's a headless. There isn't even room for a headstock on the tease picture they've slowly been uncensoring over the past several days.


----------



## decreebass

Jonathan20022 said:


> If something like this were to be released, I'd hope some of the interest translated to actual sales and people ordering guitars



First off, I'm gonna buy one immediately - I've been waiting for this for several years now 

Secondly, the fewer people that buy that it, the sooner mine gets built, so...

Thirdly, I REALLY hope the final name is not "VADER." i think INVADER would be okay, or even EVADER, REVADER, UNVADER, SOLAVADER, iVADER, or just about anything else; though I think "VADER" is probably it, especially since the next three Star Wars movies in the nonology are coming out...

I dunno. I just can't stand the green. But I think Mike Jones or ChrisH will help me choose a great finish


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Grand Moff Tim said:


> There's very little doubt at this point that it's a headless. There isn't even room for a headstock on the tease picture they've slowly been uncensoring over the past several days.



That, plus the logo is on top of the neck joint, much like the HH.


----------



## Hollowway

HaloHat said:


> note to self, don't make Hollowway mad, has good memory
> 
> FlyingV @ Carvin bbs = HaloHat here
> 
> Would kill for 27" scale V seven string from Carvin.
> 
> Will buy the new 7 headless [you guys are not still at the "will they if they point right lol] with "customer supplied woods". Unless some rumors about another Carvin NAMM 2015 surprise is true...



 Did you used to be FlyingV here, or has it always been just at carvinbbs? Either way, I'm on board with you. I have no Vs, and I don't play sixxers, so we will march together if the gods of Carvin shine down upon us!


----------



## sartorious

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That, plus the logo is on top of the neck joint, much like the HH.



On that note, is it at all significant that the logo is "Kiesel" instead of "Carvin", and that "Kiesel" is written in large letters in the upper right?

I do expect NGD subject lines to be filled with Star Wars references now. And I can only imagine the temptation for Jeff to market it with "Vader...you seek Vader!".


----------



## decreebass

You know what I think? I think the "Kiesel" branding is going to be associated with the metal guitars and ERGs from here on out, and the "Carvin" name will be the more traditional Carvin guitars. Then, the "Kiesel Edition" branding will still be the upper-crust guitars build by Jeff & Mark.

My prayer now is that this guitar doesn't carry with it 'Kiesel Edition' pricing...

And FWIW, my NGD thread will contain zero Star Wars references. Never could get into it. I saw Space Balls before Star Wars so now Star Wars is just a non-funny copycat version of Star Wars lol.


----------



## ferret

decreebass said:


> You know what I think? I think the "Kiesel" branding is going to be associated with the metal guitars and ERGs from here on out, and the "Carvin" name will be the more traditional Carvin guitars. Then, the "Kiesel Edition" branding will still be the upper-crust guitars build by Jeff & Mark.
> 
> My prayer now is that this guitar doesn't carry with it 'Kiesel Edition' pricing...
> 
> And FWIW, my NGD thread will contain zero Star Wars references. Never could get into it. I saw Space Balls before Star Wars so now Star Wars is just a non-funny copycat version of Star Wars lol.



Hopefully this. Carvin still refuses to fully explain the branding. If Kiesel is simply collecting together their more metal oriented stuff, i.e. those things Jeff is willing to try but say maybe Mark is not so sure of, and yet we still see it function like Carvin and priced similar, GREAT.

If a "Kiesel model" = high prices.... not so great.....


----------



## jwade

To me, a lot of the 'Kiessel Edition' guitars are a little too busy. The treated fretboards look cool, but then paired with a really figured top and add on multiple different stains/colours...it can get to be almost too visual. I hope the Kiessel Edition stuff can stay a hands-on Made By Jeff situation, and the Kiessel logo stuff just another line of guitars within the same price structure as the current DC stuff, with an obvious slight jump based on headless hardware.


----------



## Dominoes282

Update


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Well... We can confirm it has a fretboard I guess.


----------



## monkeysuncle

Lovin that green, gimme itttt


----------



## decreebass

jwade said:


> To me, a lot of the 'Kiessel Edition' guitars are a little too busy. The treated fretboards look cool, but then paired with a really figured top and add on multiple different stains/colours...it can get to be almost too visual. I hope the Kiessel Edition stuff can stay a hands-on Made By Jeff situation, and the Kiessel logo stuff just another line of guitars within the same price structure as the current DC stuff, with an obvious slight jump based on headless hardware.



Some of the treated fretboards look okay, some are kinda gimmicky. My main issue with the Kiesel editions so far have been the beautiful quilt/flame/etc wasted on the back of the guitar - or worse yet, on the BACK OF THE HEADSTOCK. I think it's just pointless, TBH, but I ain't hatin'. I know beautiful back wood is a 'thing' on high-end guitars, but it's overkill IMO.

Todays pic is a bit of a bummer, especially since we've already all-but confirmed it's a headless. They should have given us the rest of the headstock; although maybe they didn't cause maybe there's pricing info on the pic somewhere? These teasers are killing me! I like that there's some sort of method to their madness unlike when EBMM was teasing the Majesty; now THAT was infuriating.

I guess we'll continue getting one piece at a time. I can't wait to see the horns and controls. 

Fingers are still crossed for an expansion to the name...


----------



## celticelk

There's not going to be an expansion to the name. The Kiesel and Carvin logos are centered over the "Vader" text. If there's actually more name to the left of that panel, then Carvin has the worst promotional graphic artist in history. It's not happening. The model name is Vader. I suggest everyone just get used to that idea now. =)


----------



## Hollowway

celticelk said:


> There's not going to be an expansion to the name. The Kiesel and Carvin logos are centered over the "Vader" text. If there's actually more name to the left of that panel, then Carvin has the worst promotional graphic artist in history. It's not happening. The model name is Vader. I suggest everyone just get used to that idea now. =)



Ah, good point. I was thinking that the cut of the box right next to the V indicated a preceding letter, but I think you're right about the centering of the text.


----------



## insaneshawnlane

I bet that somewhere on that reveal picture it's gonna say "25.5 or 27 inch scale length"


----------



## downburst82

insaneshawnlane said:


> I bet that somewhere on that reveal picture it's gonna say "25.5 or 27 inch scale length"



I hope so! I am one of the few that just wants a Carvin Standard scale 6 string headless..thats not the HH2


----------



## br00takville

I wonder what hardware they would use for the 7 and 8 string versions. Strandberg or Hipshot? Maybe they designed something with the folks that designed the headless holdsworth hardware?


----------



## stevexc

downburst82 said:


> I hope so! I am one of the few that just wants a Carvin Standard scale 6 string headless..thats not the HH2



I'm with you! ...or an adjustable scale length one like the old Steinberger TransScale... that might be cool...



br00takville said:


> I wonder what hardware they would use for the 7 and 8 string versions. Strandberg or Hipshot? Maybe they designed something with the folks that designed the headless holdsworth hardware?



Well, ChrisH _was_ saying there's a lot of big stuff coming, maybe they are working on something? There seems to be enough demand for a 7 or 8-string headless with a trem.


----------



## celticelk

br00takville said:


> I wonder what hardware they would use for the 7 and 8 string versions. Strandberg or Hipshot? Maybe they designed something with the folks that designed the headless holdsworth hardware?



Smart money says Hipshot. Carvin already has a relationship with them (unlike Strandberg), and they already have the requisite bridges in their lineup (unlike J Custom, who we should note didn't design the Holdsworth hardware - they're using Steinberger's bridge designs).


----------



## HaloHat

Hollowway said:


> Did you used to be FlyingV here, or has it always been just at carvinbbs? Either way, I'm on board with you. I have no Vs, and I don't play sixxers, so we will march together if the gods of Carvin shine down upon us!



Always HaloHat here, FlyingV at Carvin bbs. Always wanting ERG V seven string. Vocal about the ERG's and 7 strings at Carvin since 2006 to the point I was warned to let up on it or be kicked off the board lol. Took a while for Carvin to come around but looks like they are full speed ahead now whoot!

Only person I know of that would like to see my body run through a chipper still is CelticElk. I suppose I can understand because I can't claim any defense other than guilty your honor


----------



## stevexc

It has a bottom horn!


----------



## sevenstringj

As long as there's an 8-string trem option.


----------



## celticelk

sevenstringj said:


> As long as there's an 8-string trem option.



As I've said in one of the other threads, I suggest that you not hold your breath. Smart money is that the hardware is Hipshot, and Hipshot doesn't make headless trems.


----------



## Spaceman_Spiff

Is it just me or does that horn make anyone else feel a little uneasy about how the rest may look?


----------



## stevexc

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> Is it just me or does that horn make anyone else feel a little uneasy about how the rest may look?



Not even slightly, why?


----------



## leonardo7

How much money do you want to bet the next reveal is the bottom left, then the upper horn, then the bridge, then the headstock, obviously


----------



## Chokey Chicken

leonardo7 said:


> How much money do you want to bet the next reveal is the bottom left, then the upper horn, then the bridge, then the headstock



I'm guessing the next one will either be the top horn, or the block of what is likely text next to "6, 7, 8 string models." I still stand by the thought that they're releasing the bridge/"headstock" last.


----------



## Randy

leonardo7 said:


> How much money do you want to bet the next reveal is ... *the headstock*



I would be willing to bet a significant amount of money that they never reveal the headstock.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> Is it just me or does that horn make anyone else feel a little uneasy about how the rest may look?



Well, I'd be pleasantly surprised if the rest was similar to a Strandberg. My money is on something more traditional, maybe similar to a Reb Beach model.


----------



## sevenstringj

celticelk said:


> As I've said in one of the other threads, I suggest that you not hold your breath. Smart money is that the hardware is Hipshot, and Hipshot doesn't make headless trems.



The Holdsworth models come with JCustom fixed/trem. So...


----------



## celticelk

sevenstringj said:


> The Holdsworth models come with JCustom fixed/trem. So...



Yes, but the J Custom hardware is a straight third-party build of Steinberger's original bridge designs. J Custom has been building and selling them for a while as aftermarket Steinberger replacements; they were also used here and there by independent luthiers, but not (AFAIK) on any production scale until Carvin put out the HH models (where Holdsworth, presumably, insisted on Steinberger hardware or the closest available substitute). There's nothing to indicate that J Custom has any interest in expanding their offerings to original designs like a 7-string version of their bridge, or even that they have the in-house engineering talent to do so. I repeat: the smart money is that the bridges are Hipshot, which means fixed-bridge only.


----------



## sevenstringj

celticelk said:


> Yes, but the J Custom hardware is a straight third-party build of Steinberger's original bridge designs. J Custom has been building and selling them for a while as aftermarket Steinberger replacements; they were also used here and there by independent luthiers, but not (AFAIK) on any production scale until Carvin put out the HH models (where Holdsworth, presumably, insisted on Steinberger hardware or the closest available substitute). There's nothing to indicate that J Custom has any interest in expanding their offerings to original designs like a 7-string version of their bridge, or even that they have the in-house engineering talent to do so. I repeat: the smart money is that the bridges are Hipshot, which means fixed-bridge only.



That's nice. Anyway... 

























































It's not that serious.  Worst case scenario, $1500 stays in my pocket.


----------



## Hollowway

Randy said:


> I would be willing to bet a significant amount of money that they never reveal the headstock.


----------



## Dominoes282

Twist: The last panel says "Join us at NAMM!"


----------



## yingmin

celticelk said:


> Yes, but the J Custom hardware is a straight third-party build of Steinberger's original bridge designs. J Custom has been building and selling them for a while as aftermarket Steinberger replacements; they were also used here and there by independent luthiers, but not (AFAIK) on any production scale until Carvin put out the HH models (where Holdsworth, presumably, insisted on Steinberger hardware or the closest available substitute). There's nothing to indicate that J Custom has any interest in expanding their offerings to original designs like a 7-string version of their bridge, or even that they have the in-house engineering talent to do so. I repeat: the smart money is that the bridges are Hipshot, which means fixed-bridge only.



I know it's not likely, but I would absolutely love if J-Custom expanded their line beyond what they could copy from Steinberger. A 7-string S-Trem would be glorious, or a 6-string bass bridge.


----------



## Mangekyo

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> Is it just me or does that horn make anyone else feel a little uneasy about how the rest may look?



Yes, I was super pumped for this. When I saw that tiny horn/cutaway I realized not only are they playing it safe with a strat shape, but the body style almost has no character at all. Still holding on for being wrong, hopefully. I hope so much that I'm wrong.


----------



## Dominoes282

Carvin confirming the obvious here.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Dominoes282 said:


> Carvin confirming the obvious here.



So, what's tomorrow's update, a hyphen? I'm on a roll, how about:
1. The lower narrow rectangle at the bottom, an update that says: "To order, go to www.carvinguitars.com", or

2. The zeroth fret 

3. Another line of text: "25.5" SCALE 6, 7, STRING MODELS"

This is really getting ridiculous  From the other thread, it was mentioned that someone working at Carvin had to explain that the top horn part will be a one time reveal, not two, seriously!!!!!

To kill time , anyone wanna bet on more beveled edges? Which ones?


----------



## Dominoes282

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> The zeroth fret



This isn't so crazy. The Holdsworth models have a zero fret.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

Dominoes282 said:


> This isn't so crazy. The Holdsworth models have a zero fret.



I know, and I'm actually hoping for one, I was ridiculing the daily reveal process, that's all


----------



## Hollowway

Dominoes282 said:


> This isn't so crazy. The Holdsworth models have a zero fret.



That's not so crazy. You're the one that's crazy! All I want is a Pepsi!


----------



## XEN

Hollowway said:


> That's not so crazy. You're the one that's crazy! All I want is a Pepsi!


Careful man. You're dating yourself!


----------



## Hollowway

XEN said:


> Careful man. You're dating yourself!



Haha, I know. I couldn't resist, though!


----------



## shanerct

Today's update.


----------



## br00takville

I bet the hardware is the same as the Holdsworth models just expanded to 7 and 8 string versions. The Hipshot headless hardware looks a bit unstable.


----------



## celticelk

br00takville said:


> I bet the hardware is the same as the Holdsworth models just expanded to 7 and 8 string versions. The Hipshot headless hardware looks a bit unstable.



Unstable how?

Also, the Hipshot hardware actually exists, whereas there's been no whisper of a J Custom 7- or 8-string bridge, or any indication that J Custom has any interest in developing new hardware rather than producing aftermarket Steinberger replacements.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

I'm usually not a fan of curved features mixed with pointy features. 
I am of course reserving judgement untill i actually see it though.


----------



## Dominoes282

I don't know how I feel about this.


----------



## sevenstringj

^All caps. 2534x1898 pixels. PNG image.


















Die.


----------



## sartorious

I was hoping against a symmetrical, rounded rear end* appearance like the HH and older Steinbergers have. But I can also imagine single scale lends itself most readily to symmetry, and anything pointier could be risky for a new model. On the plus side, maybe this is easier to place in a common guitar stand?

There are so many other great things about this that it's still a dream come true, though: 27" scale, 6-8 strings, many Carvin customizations, obtainable (price, availability), freaking headless.

* "baboon butt"


----------



## HaloHat

Hollowway said:


> That's not so crazy. You're the one that's crazy! All I want is a Pepsi!



I wish I could "like" this more than once


----------



## Dominoes282

sevenstringj said:


> ^All caps. 2534x1898 pixels. PNG image.



Fixed. Yeah I kinda rushed that post into production and nothing went right. My bad.


----------



## Tom Drinkwater

br00takville said:


> I bet the hardware is the same as the Holdsworth models just expanded to 7 and 8 string versions. The Hipshot headless hardware looks a bit unstable.



The Hipshot stuff is rock solid. I would be surprised if it doesn't feature a Hipshot, isn't Carvin using their Hardtail bridge already?


----------



## Spaceman_Spiff

Aaaaaaand I'm out.


----------



## ItWillDo

Man, i'm really not into the Voyager-alike shapes. 




Spoiler



Not to mention how turned off I am by the Holdsworth models : (


----------



## br00takville

Tom Drinkwater said:


> The Hipshot stuff is rock solid. I would be surprised if it doesn't feature a Hipshot, isn't Carvin using their Hardtail bridge already?



By unstable hardware I meant the Hipshot headless bridge. The normal hardtail bridge is super solid. I've never seen the Hipshot headless bridge in person so maybe someone can elaborate?

The way you tune the strings on the headless bridge is by threading the saddles back and forth? Where do you thread the strings? 
http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=397


----------



## Indigenous

The way you tune the strings on the headless bridge is by threading the saddles back and forth? Where do you thread the strings?
[url=http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=397 said:


> 7 String Guitar Headless System > Store > Hipshot Products[/url]



The ball end of the string seats into the bridge - there's a small channel for it to slide in. The other end of the string is clamped down at the very top of the neck with the other piece shown in the picture using a small allen key.

It's backwards from a guitar with a headstock - the ball end is what moves and changes the tuning, rather than turning the loose end on a peg.


----------



## Dominoes282

Indigenous said:


> The ball end of the string seats into the bridge - there's a small channel for it to slide in. The other end of the string is clamped down at the very top of the neck with the other piece shown in the picture using a small allen key.
> 
> It's backwards from a guitar with a headstock - the ball end is what moves and changes the tuning, rather than turning the loose end on a peg.



Huh that's interesting. How do you set the intonation then?


----------



## celticelk

Dominoes282 said:


> Huh that's interesting. How do you set the intonation then?



You're not moving the saddle to tune - you're moving a small piece inside the bridge assembly. The saddle adjusts independently for intonation and action.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

So, 1/2 hr w/ GIMP, what do you think?


----------



## InfestedRabite

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> So, 1/2 hr w/ GIMP, what do you think?



seems like a safe bet

definitely keen on it with a nicer finish and no inlays


----------



## asher

That it would have taken you half the time to do in a program with a UI that doesn't suck. Like Paint.

(sorry, I hate GIMPs UI with a passion)

But definitely not bad at all, even if I'd want a little more out of the horn to balance out the full ass the guitar has.


----------



## jwade

I feel like it would look really nice with an upper horn similar to the Vanquish bass, or even something along the lines of a Fireman would be interesting.


----------



## Wildebeest

I really like this, and I've been thinking of switching to a 27" from a 28" because of my elbow pain. Cubital Tunnel Syndrome is a bitch!


----------



## sevenstringj

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> So, 1/2 hr w/ GIMP, what do you think?



Nah. That's not it. I fix it for you.


----------



## Zhysick

sevenstringj said:


> Nah. That's not it. I fix it for you.


----------



## Mangekyo

Meh.


----------



## RV350ALSCYTHE

I love fat asses...but not on a guitar.

I hope it turns out to be a little offset and not so symmetrical on the bottom.

Why does carvin add two lower strap buttons on their Holdsworth models?
I'm genuinely curious as to why.


----------



## Dominoes282

Here we go. That bevel.


----------



## MicrobeSS

RV350ALSCYTHE said:


> I love fat asses...but not on a guitar.
> 
> I hope it turns out to be a little offset and not so symmetrical on the bottom.
> 
> Why does carvin add two lower strap buttons on their Holdsworth models?
> I'm genuinely curious as to why.



Different placement options? Maybe he uses one of those straps that has 3 pin holes


----------



## asher

I'm sure it's just to allow for different balancing positions.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I believe it's to reduce wear and damage when you rest the guitar on an amp., also makes it balance easier. 

It's something that was common on Steinbergers, which he used a lot before he got his custom-made headless guitars.


----------



## Kristianx510

I was really excited for this model, but the more I see it the less excited I get. I just don't see it being very ergonomic, which is why I like headless guitars in the first place. I'm going to hold off final judgement until I see and play it at NAMM, but I'm iffy on it.


----------



## sevenstringj

(one of Jeff's replies on facebook)

1. Yes it is called VADER noway
2. Finish options will be treated like the SCB series
3. Neck Through construction
4. Chambered body is optional


----------



## shanerct

sevenstringj said:


> (one of Jeff's replies on facebook)
> 
> 1. Yes it is called VADER noway
> *2. Finish options will be treated like the SCB series*
> 3. Neck Through construction
> 4. Chambered body is optional



2-4 are all +++. 

I wish they introduced this guitar with some nicer finishes/woods. The green turns me off badly. If they can do the binding like the SCB I'm all over this. Chambered is also a plus and I'm wondering if they can add a piezo.

Shoot and I originally thought I was going to save money this year...


----------



## Slunk Dragon

The name might be corny, but for a headless with so many options for woods and finishes, I really don't understand why everyone is complaining.

Carvin might as well take my money at this point, give that to me in an 8-string, and I'll pick out whatever options they have.


----------



## Wildebeest

Guys, what is going on in this (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/287071-carvin-vader-24.html) thread? I don't know what to believe anymore and I am scared.


----------



## Stuck_in_a_dream

^ Someone showed it's actually photoshopped on the other thread (play w/ contrast/brightness and you'll see it for yourself).


----------



## Slunk Dragon

This entire forum is a palace of lies and innuendos.


----------



## 7stg

How about a little reshaping. Open the lower horn a bit for better access, shift the arc forward a bit for longer scale comfort, shade in a good forearm cutout cause there does not appear to be one, and move the bridge pickup a bit closer to the bridge. I'm not the best at gimp but you get the idea. Headless is good to, I just started with the other one and wanted to see it with the different headstock.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ^ Someone showed it's actually photoshopped on the other thread (play w/ contrast/brightness and you'll see it for yourself).



Kinda sad that people are gullible enough to warrant that. It's obviously fake...


----------



## Wildebeest

InfinityCollision said:


> Kinda sad that people are gullible enough to warrant that. It's obviously fake...


Point it out, what's fake looking about the pic.


----------



## 7stg

Wildebeest said:


> Point it out, what's fake looking about the pic.



The logo is removed just above the fretboard. On the hh2 they put it there because there is no headstock. Zooming in on the nut shows it's Photoshopped.


----------



## InfinityCollision

Wildebeest said:


> Point it out, what's fake looking about the pic.



Forget about that for a minute and USE YOUR BRAIN. Superstrat with some bevels and some of the body removed behind the bridge? That warrants a new model? That warrants a 10 day long reveal teaser? And why would they move the logo to the headstock for the grand reveal?

I shouldn't have to explain this. You shouldn't need photoshop analysis. It should be incredibly obvious that someone's ....ing with you.


----------



## sevenstringj

Wildebeest said:


> Guys, what is going on in this (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/287071-carvin-vader-24.html) thread? I don't know what to believe anymore and I am scared.



 That's even funnier than my cowbell Kiesel.


----------



## Wildebeest

InfinityCollision said:


> Forget about that for a minute and USE YOUR BRAIN. Superstrat with some bevels and some of the body removed behind the bridge? That warrants a new model? That warrants a 10 day long reveal teaser? And why would they move the logo to the headstock for the grand reveal?
> 
> I shouldn't have to explain this. You shouldn't need photoshop analysis. It should be incredibly obvious that someone's ....ing with you.


I fell for it


----------



## XEN

Yay! Hipshot headless!!
Instagram


----------



## shanerct

^^^^This is nice^^^^

Whats with the corner on the body? Gives it a unfinished look to me. Some people may like it. New type of cut? Saw something similar on that Koa DC 800.


----------



## asher

Transition from top wood to body wood through the arm bevel, because the top wood is not bent down to the curve.


----------



## shanerct

asher said:


> Transition from top wood to body wood through the arm bevel, because the top wood is not bent down to the curve.



Thank you!


----------



## Dominoes282

Dibs


----------



## shanerct




----------



## Dominoes282

shanerct said:


>



HNNNGGGG


----------



## sevenstringj

I appreciate that it doesn't say "*VADERRRR!!!!1*" At least not anywhere conspicuous. 

But with no trem, I can't burn a $1000+ hole in my pocket. Back to waiting for an RG8420 or Banshee 8 FR or SL2-8.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Pretty cool... 

But I think I can actually wait on this one.


----------



## XEN

sevenstringj said:


> I appreciate that it doesn't say "*VADERRRR!!!!1*" At least not anywhere conspicuous.
> 
> But with no trem, I can't burn a $1000+ hole in my pocket. Back to waiting for an RG8420 or Banshee 8 FR or SL2-8.


Hipshot is working toward a headless trem system.


----------



## jmeezle




----------



## Zhysick

Yes... Looks better than expected. I don't like the Hipshot Headless Bridge but even with that looks awesome...

Well done Carvin... good move... good move...

PD: Typing my bank website right now...


----------



## Spaceman_Spiff

Yeah I honestly think those look hideous. Definitely gonna wait to see how comfortable people think they are. Good move for Carvin though. You can't argue with their quality, and the options certainly are tempting. It's good that companies are starting to introduce and offer more "outside the norm" guitars.


----------



## steinny

Price?


----------



## celticelk

^^^ Not announced yet.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Don't get me wrong... I really do hope other ppl buy it. Maybe they'll make a singlecut headless if this one sells well... One can dream...


----------



## RV350ALSCYTHE

You can't sit in classical position with it 
Tuners digging into my inner thigh 
The weight of the guitar transferred through small metal rods into tender flesh, damaging tissues and causing a nice bruise 

They could have gone a little more ergonomic like a shoggie or strandberg on the lower cheek.

I still want to see a clear shot of that 8, especially the arm bevel with the natural bodywood layer showing through.


----------



## Jzbass25

The bridge was expected but it just kills it for me, since I think it's huge and ugly and I sit in the classical position so the guitar will be annoying for me. I hope they start doing more body shapes like this though since I always find carvins to look a little too rounded.


----------



## Slunk Dragon

Not gonna lie, that 8 looks hella fine.


----------



## axxessdenied

so ugly


----------



## yingmin

What is it about the Hipshot bridge that so many of you find ugly? I find it more visually appealing than any other headless system currently on the market (although, as I said, the ideal situation for me would be J-Custom introducing 7+ string bridges, even tremolos). Also, I've owned a few Steinbergers, I sit in the classical position, and I've never had a problem with the tuners digging in to my leg. I'd welcome any owners of Steinberger/Holdworth models to chime in and share their experiences with this.


----------



## jephjacques

Step 1: SSO users beg Carvin to make a headless ERG for literally years

Step 2: Carvin finally makes one, posts teaser images, SSO jizzes EVERYWHERE

Step 3: Full headless ERG lineup revealed. SSO declares it "meh" and "probably won't buy it."


----------



## mnemonic

yingmin said:


> What is it about the Hipshot bridge that so many of you find ugly? I find it more visually appealing than any other headless system currently on the market (although, as I said, the ideal situation for me would be J-Custom introducing 7+ string bridges, even tremolos). Also, I've owned a few Steinbergers, I sit in the classical position, and I've never had a problem with the tuners digging in to my leg. I'd welcome any owners of Steinberger/Holdworth models to chime in and share their experiences with this.



I think its a bit blocky and boring looking. It doesn't look high end. Maybe if it wasn't surface-mount it would look better. I dunno, maybe I'm just spoiled by the Strandberg hardware, since thats the only headless hardware I've seen before, and it looks really nice.

That being said, its not bad enough to be a dealbreaker. I'm more worried about the edge of the bridge by the saddles. Looks like it might get in the way or dig into my palm?


----------



## trippled

Personally, I don't understand what anyone here is complaining about.
This is a move I would have never expected carvin to do, and the design is looking great, 
To be percise, I think that's the nicest shape they've done for 7-8 strings, I was always a bit off with the dc models and I think it looks alot slicker then the current offerings for 7 string models as well.

This is fantastic, would be difficult to spec since so many options would look awesome with that design.


----------



## JaxoBuzzo

jephjacques said:


> Step 1: SSO users beg Carvin to make a headless ERG for literally years
> 
> Step 2: Carvin finally makes one, posts teaser images, SSO jizzes EVERYWHERE
> 
> Step 3: Full headless ERG lineup revealed. SSO declares it "meh" and "probably won't buy it."



Yeah. I can't decide if that's entertaining or annoying? I don't mind the bridge. There's not much else out there, with the exception of a few companies. I would rather have a blocky bridge system made by a reputable company and this guitar still remain somewhat affordable, then paying an expensive up charge for, say, Strandberg hardware. 

You should head to the sevenstring section and go to
The Carvin Vader thread and read everyone's posts bitching about the scale length not being short enough.....


----------



## celticelk

JaxoBuzzo said:


> You should head to the sevenstring section and go to
> The Carvin Vader thread and read everyone's posts bitching about the scale length not being short enough.....



It's sevenstring.org, not extendedscale.org.


----------



## sevenstringj

celticelk said:


> JaxoBuzzo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should head to the sevenstring section and go to The Carvin Vader thread and read everyone's posts bitching about the scale length not being short enough.....
> 
> 
> 
> It's sevenstring.org, not extendedscale.org.
Click to expand...


Let them eat cake.


----------



## Hollowway

jephjacques said:


> Step 1: SSO users beg Carvin to make a headless ERG for literally years
> 
> Step 2: Carvin finally makes one, posts teaser images, SSO jizzes EVERYWHERE
> 
> Step 3: Full headless ERG lineup revealed. SSO declares it "meh" and "probably won't buy it."



Huh. I always remember Step 1 as, "you cut a hole in the box." 


I think, irrespective of whether an individual player likes this model or not, the real significance here is the almost paradigm shift we've seen in Carvin over the past 2 years. And this particular jump is significant. Carvin used to be a cool company with a lot of guitars for traditional players. Now they're a cool company with a lot of guitars for traditional AND niche players. If someone had told me 3 years ago if they'd be doing the Vader model, I'd have asked them where they got their weed, and could I have some, too.


----------



## Tom Drinkwater

Hollowway said:


> Huh. I always remember Step 1 as, "you cut a hole in the box."
> 
> 
> I think, irrespective of whether an individual player likes this model or not, the real significance here is the almost paradigm shift we've seen in Carvin over the past 2 years. And this particular jump is significant. Carvin used to be a cool company with a lot of guitars for traditional players. Now they're a cool company with a lot of guitars for traditional AND niche players. If someone had told me 3 years ago if they'd be doing the Vader model, I'd have asked them where they got their weed, and could I have some, too.



It'll be interesting to see whether or not Carvin/Keisel keeps up with the new business model. I hope it works out for them in the long run. It is good to see them being a little more flexible than they have been in the past.


----------



## mikesch

Hollowway said:


> I think, irrespective of whether an individual player likes this model or not, the real significance here is the almost paradigm shift we've seen in Carvin over the past 2 years. And this particular jump is significant.



Agreed, especially as other manufacturers have kind of fallen off. We have great stuff at the super high end, as always, but nothing really filling this niche. Schecter's finally at least stopped putting bats on everything, but Ibanez keeps retreading the 90s, maybe adding another string every two years or painting everything a slightly different shade of black. 

The awesome thing about their business model is that they're not worried about building 10,000 of something that will bankrupt them if it doesn't sell. After R&D is paid for there's not a lot of cost to keeping a new model in the inventory. If it doesn't sell, remove the profile from the CNC machine and try something else. Could they make their living at their scale selling nothing but the Vader? Probably not. Same for the Holdsworth. Does their business model give them a chance to experiment and bring fun stuff to market while not betting the company? Absolutely. It's great seeing them finally take advantage of that.

I wasn't impressed with the 90s Carvins that I owned, but I took a chance and ordered a C66 a couple of months ago since they seem to have stepped things up recently. It's a great guitar, and not just for the price. Depending on how the numbers guitar looks at NAMM, I'll probably be on the phone ordering one of these pretty soon.


----------



## Spaceman_Spiff

I think the bridge looks fine, the body style is just fat, short, and looks uncomfortable. What I'm really curious about is the back. Things like the neck joint, belly carve etc.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

^


----------



## Enselmis

Somebody who owns an HH2 or HH1 has to get one and do a direct comparison between the hipshot and J-Custom hardware. I'm really curious which one will stand up better as I've read pretty good things about the J-Custom stuff, at least the fixed bridge version.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

> For those of you wondering what the new Kiesel Vader weighs... This V8 eight string comes in at only 5.875 pounds! This one has the chambered body option, ash body sides, flame maple top, zebrawood board, 5pcs walnut and maple neck.


----------



## ferret

http://instagram.com/p/x9ru8UBBKz/

Video of that orange V8. You can see how the end of the neck looks a couple of times.


----------



## Hollowway

Man, that orange one is so hot! I hate to completely Francesco, but I honestly think I'm going to get an exact duplicate of that.


----------



## yingmin

I'm not hip to that reference. Who is Francesco and what did he do?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

That.


----------



## Hollowway

Thank you! I wanted to see how they were going to do that transition on the forearm contour. It's weird how perfectly the zebra wood and the limba match - they almost look like the same wood!


----------



## Electric Wizard

Uh, I photoshopped that. It's definitely not how Carvin is doing the contour, at least according to Francesco's actual pics.


----------



## Hollowway

Electric Wizard said:


> Uh, I photoshopped that. It's definitely not how Carvin is doing the contour, at least according to Francesco's actual pics.



Oh.  Well, good job on that! 
Do you have the actual pic that came from? I don't think I've seen the straight on angle.


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## Electric Wizard

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/4273799-post705.html

Yeah I shopped it because I was curious about what it would look like if the paint stopped at the boundaries of the top like usual.


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## Hybrid138

That 8 is so hot right now!


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## steinny

Are the pickups splittable to single coils?


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## Galius

steinny said:


> Are the pickups splittable to single coils?



I would assume that it will be wired like my passive DC800 and will have a 5 way switch that has pickup split positions.


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## Halowords

Even though I'd prefer it in a multiscale and perhaps different scale options (and am inclined to just go with a 9-string at this point because, hey, why not?) I actually like it. Sure, like most, there may be one or two things I might have spec'd differently as a matter of personal taste.

But as Hollowway so adeptly pointed out:



Hollowway said:


> If someone had told me 3 years ago if they'd be doing the Vader model, I'd have asked them where they got their weed, and could I have some, too.



Because I sure as hell did not see them coming out with an 8-string headless double-cut.

-Cheers


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## steinny

Prices??


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

We'll find out sometime this weekend, or Feb 1st.


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## IChuckFinleyI

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ^


 
I've never been a fan of headless guitars and absolutely loath solid color paint jobs on guitars... but that thing has me GASing like crazy! I planned only allowing myself to buy one guitar this year too. If I can only get one, might as well make it a Carvin.


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## Explorer

I didn't notice this topic until today, and now I'm actually on edge waiting until there is pricing and option info on the Carvin site. 

I would repost that beautiful picture of the back side, with the neck contour and how tasty the woods look, but I can't find the original link right now. However, I did save pictures and have been opening the folder to look at them every now and again....


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## DancingCloseToU

Explorer said:


> I didn't notice this topic until today, and now I'm actually on edge waiting until there is pricing and option info on the Carvin site.
> 
> I would repost that beautiful picture of the back side, with the neck contour and how tasty the woods look, but I can't find the original link right now. However, I did save pictures and have been opening the folder to look at them every now and again....




Upload dat sheet!


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## Stuck_in_a_dream

That blue flamed V8 looks awesome, even the abrupt arm cut is not that big of a deal IMHO, from the new Carvin catalog.







*EDIT:* I thought the bobbins were white on that V8, in such case a corrected white balance is due:


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## DerBomber

Explorer said:


> I didn't notice this topic until today, and now I'm actually on edge waiting until there is pricing and option info on the Carvin site.
> 
> V6 - $1199
> V7 - $1249
> V8 - $1299
> 
> That's from Kiesel Guitars on FB


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## Wildebeest




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## steinny

count me among those who would like to see a single-cut model.


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## StevenC

As someone who doesn't plan on buying a guitar with a headstock for quite a long time, this does absolutely nothing for me. Not that I'd usually be interested in Carvin, being in Europe, but this guitar just doesn't appeal to me.


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## mphsc

I'd would have rather seen an HH7.


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## celticelk

mphsc said:


> I'd would have rather seen an HH7.


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## MJS

mphsc said:


> I'd would have rather seen an HH7.



You can get one. You just have to convince Holdsworth to play 7-strings first, then patiently wait for them to release the 7-string version... but other than that, it's just like ordering any other Carvin.


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## Dominoes282

Alright guys, the new models are coming online tomorrow, I'm just gonna get this thread warmed up.


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## Electric Wizard

MJS said:


> You can get one. You just have to convince Holdsworth to play 7-strings first, then patiently wait for them to release the 7-string version... but other than that, it's just like ordering any other Carvin.


So here's what I don't understand about the whole "Holdsworth doesn't play ERGs" thing. How does a signature model actually work? I would think that Mr. Holdsworth doesn't own the rights to that design or something, only the right to his name. Why can't they make an HH with more strings and just not call it a Holdsworth? Or, why must he play an ERG to allow use of his name? There are 7 string Les Pauls. Seems like Carvin would fulfill people's wishes and Allan could basically have free money.


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## Chokey Chicken

I think it'd be asinine to make a "signature" guitar that an artist it's a signature for doesn't play. I always found it weird when the KM7 was first announced people were demanding floyds and 8 string versions when keith doesn't make much use of floyds or 8's. I think if they release something like the Holdsworth sig headless, it'd have to be something without his name attached. I'm sure there's also some sort of legalities involved too. A single cut headless with 7+ strings would certainly be neat, but I personally dig the Vader over the HH.


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## ferret

Electric Wizard said:


> So here's what I don't understand about the whole "Holdsworth doesn't play ERGs" thing. How does a signature model actually work? I would think that Mr. Holdsworth doesn't own the rights to that design or something, only the right to his name. Why can't they make an HH with more strings and just not call it a Holdsworth? Or, why must he play an ERG to allow use of his name? There are 7 string Les Pauls. Seems like Carvin would fulfill people's wishes and Allan could basically have free money.



Politics. Holdsworth is a major bit of marketing for them. They can't afford to offend him and have him take his name elsewhere. Holdsworth may (or may not) have no design ownership over the HH2, but he did aid in it's design and it was done as he wanted it.

Making a HH27 without his backing risks their arrangement.

Whether or not Carvin has ever asked him about it though? Who knows.


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