# Korean War Ended?!



## bostjan (Apr 27, 2018)

How is there not a post about this?

I don't speak Korean, except one very broken phrase that I can't even write out if my life depends on it, so I don't know if my understanding of the peace treaty signed between Moon and Kim today is way off base or what, but it seems to me like the Korean War is ... over.

If so, this is absolutely a monumental moment in world history! A war going on for over 60 years coming to an end! To put into perspective, the Berlin Wall lasted less than half of that time.

Does anyone on the forum who speaks Korean want to give the gist of the agreement, or at least clarify?

I'm a little unclear as to whether Korea is on the path to reunification because of this or not.


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## kevdes93 (Apr 28, 2018)

That was a great video to watch, it genuinely warmed my heart seeing them shake hands and kim grabbing the SK presidents hand and take him over to the north side. A few months ago i genuinely thought the end was near, as far as the whole world stage goes this is one of the best things to happen in a long time.

Lets just hope we mind our own business on this one and let them work things out


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## PunkBillCarson (Apr 28, 2018)

This is a good thing all the way around and I would hope that even as Americans, we can appreciate the magnitude of this.


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## cwhitey2 (Apr 28, 2018)

I was shocked when I saw the video... but I'm skeptical. 

I don't know what was said, but I don't trust the north


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## BenjaminW (Apr 28, 2018)

I'm moderately skeptical but I am going to go with my own personal belief that North Korea is going to genuinely further their denuclearization. Hopefully, some sort of Korean reunification may spring up again. Only time will tell in this case.


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## Tortellini (Apr 29, 2018)

I’m glad to see this.. I wonder what made this all happen?
I don’t keep up to date with this kind of stuff, but I know the “DPRK” are not ones to accept compromise.


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## Sumsar (Apr 29, 2018)

I don't know what media over there write about it, but here they focus on that it is the third time that something like this has happened, i.e the leaders meeting, shaking hands and made some sort of agreement. Last time was 10 years ago, but the agreement was broken after some months, so hopefully this time it will actually work out, but actual steps taken are needed to be seen to conclude that the Korean War is over.


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## MatiasTolkki (Apr 29, 2018)

Praise the god emperor! 

I knew Trump's aggressive stance would work on Li'l Kim. It hasn't been done before, China had no choice but to put massive pressure on Kim Jong Un to back down because they were scared Trump might actually keep his promise. 

As an American living in Japan, and has had to deal with those goddamn missiles flying over the country I call home for a long time now, I am absolutely proud that President Trump has played a major role in cleaning up this mess.

Also, Trump made it MANDATORY that if Kim wanted to meet with him that these talks MUST occur or else. Trump has threatened immediate military action if Kim doesn't keep his promise, so trump has China AND NK scared. This is a win for East Asian affairs, and I hope it brings the end to the US troops being stationed in Okinawa.


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## MatiasTolkki (Apr 29, 2018)

Oh and some news from Japan on top of this, is that it seems South Korea also managed to talk NK into talking to Japan about the kidnapped Japanese citizens DIRECTLY, which Kim Jong Un has come forward and said, "I will meet with the Japanese officials anytime." This is a BIG deal and is going to have lasting ramifications if Trump's summit with NK goes well.


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## MaxOfMetal (Apr 29, 2018)

Take a shot every time MatiasTolkki says "Trump."


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## narad (Apr 29, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Praise the god emperor!



I think the closing of Toys R' Us stores had about as much to do with this as Trump did.



MatiasTolkki said:


> This is a win for East Asian affairs, and I hope it brings the end to the US troops being stationed in Okinawa.



Dude, troops move in one direction only.


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## MatiasTolkki (Apr 29, 2018)

narad said:


> I think the closing of Toys R' Us stores had about as much to do with this as Trump did.
> 
> Dude, troops move in one direction only.



Trump's aggressive stance caused China to force NK to put up or shut up. Also, SK President Moon Jae In has said as much in PUBLIC statements to the media, that the President's stance towards north korea brought them together. So yeah, accept the truth that God Emperor has had a MAJOR impact on this all happening.


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## narad (Apr 29, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Trump's aggressive stance caused China to force NK to put up or shut up. Also, SK President Moon Jae In has said as much in PUBLIC statements to the media, that the President's stance towards north korea brought them together. So yeah, accept the truth that God Emperor has had a MAJOR impact on this all happening.



From everything I've read being discussed, it's win-win-win for NK. The good bit here is that it seems like that's typically a win for the citizens of the world, but it's not a win at all for US political power. Basically said, hey, sure, after decades of like a "we don't negotiate with terrorists policy" switched to "Sure, we'll get you your helicopter and the bags of money. Once you're all set, let's talk about maybe releasing some of those hostages?"

I feel it's a bit like looking a gift horse in the mouth -- I don't really care by what means a volatile situation like NK is cooled off -- but by every breakdown I've read by experts on Korean politics, and what seems to be reported on the Korean local media (at least those my gf reads), this is not something to attribute to any Trump hard stance, but rather favorable circumstances for it between the Koreas (and potentially Kim having an accident at his nuclear test facility).


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## auxioluck (Apr 29, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Take a shot every time MatiasTolkki says "Trump."



I'm just still trying to discern if he's saying "God Emperor" seriously or ironically.


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## Lemonbaby (Apr 29, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> [...] Trump has threatened immediate military action if Kim doesn't keep his promise, so trump has China AND NK scared.


China scared of the US?


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## MatiasTolkki (Apr 29, 2018)

narad said:


> From everything I've read being discussed, it's win-win-win for NK. The good bit here is that it seems like that's typically a win for the citizens of the world, but it's not a win at all for US political power. Basically said, hey, sure, after decades of like a "we don't negotiate with terrorists policy" switched to "Sure, we'll get you your helicopter and the bags of money. Once you're all set, let's talk about maybe releasing some of those hostages?"
> 
> I feel it's a bit like looking a gift horse in the mouth -- I don't really care by what means a volatile situation like NK is cooled off -- but by every breakdown I've read by experts on Korean politics, and what seems to be reported on the Korean local media (at least those my gf reads), this is not something to attribute to any Trump hard stance, but rather favorable circumstances for it between the Koreas (and potentially Kim having an accident at his nuclear test facility).



North Korea basically agreed to demands of all surrounding countries to de-nuclearize and stop missile launches BEFORE they agreed to meet with the US. The events were going so quickly that I couldn't keep up with every tiny detail but iirc they had to agree to those terms before Trump would even meet with Li'l Kim. Also, for the record, my information is coming from the JAPANESE media, not the anti-trump biased western media, so things aren't as politically charged against him.

@Lemonbaby 

Trump reinstated tariffs on imported steel (which also affects Japan btw) and China backed down from that fight because they knew they couldn't win that battle. The economic pressures of a trade war (one the US can win btw) basically made China have to take stock of their biggest trading partner (very one sided as China's trade policies with the US are quite similar to how Japan's trade policy works with the US: LOTS of export, little import). There are a lot of moving parts in this situation, but there's one common denominator: The President and his foreign policy.


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## narad (Apr 29, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Also, for the record, my information is coming from the JAPANESE media, not the anti-trump biased western media, so things aren't as politically charged against him.



It's just bias another way. But I'm going to side with Korean political analysis on issues pertaining most directly to Korea.

Regarding a trade war...don't you need to produce something to have a chance at winning a trade war?


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## Lemonbaby (Apr 30, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> @Lemonbaby
> 
> Trump reinstated tariffs on imported steel (which also affects Japan btw) and China backed down from that fight because they knew they couldn't win that battle. The economic pressures of a trade war (one the US can win btw) basically made China have to take stock of their biggest trading partner (very one sided as China's trade policies with the US are quite similar to how Japan's trade policy works with the US: LOTS of export, little import). There are a lot of moving parts in this situation, but there's one common denominator: The President and his foreign policy.


The steel customs discussion was used to threaten other countries, China isn't even in the top 10 of steel importers to the USA. However: almost all electronics consumed in the US are produced in China, so they'll do whatever they want there e.g. increase manufacturing prices for these PCBs. And something tells me electronics manufacturing won't move back from Asia. Besides, China holds US bonds for over a trillion USD at the moment - the US is literally broke and would have a serious issue if China stopped buying bonds for a few months...


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## Dcm81 (Apr 30, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Praise the god emperor!
> 
> I knew Trump's aggressive stance would work on Li'l Kim. It hasn't been done before, China had no choice but to put massive pressure on Kim Jong Un to back down because they were scared Trump might actually keep his promise.
> 
> ...



Wow.......just, wow! Other countries really let these types immigrate?!?


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## MatiasTolkki (Apr 30, 2018)

Dcm81 said:


> Wow.......just, wow! Other countries really let these types immigrate?!?



Ummmm, maybe if you'd actually paid attention to the last 20 years of diplomacy in Asia you might actually understand WHY this worked. I've been watching this situation for damn near 15 years, PRIOR to moving to Japan. Also, my opinions of Trump and him being aggressive towards NK are nowhere NEAR what the Nippon kaigi believes, but you wouldn't know ANYTHING about Japanese politics, would you? Thought not.


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## HeavyMetal4Ever (Apr 30, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Trump's aggressive stance caused China to force NK to put up or shut up. Also, SK President Moon Jae In has said as much in PUBLIC statements to the media, that the President's stance towards north korea brought them together. So yeah, accept the truth that God Emperor has had a MAJOR impact on this all happening.



https://www.livescience.com/62430-north-korea-nuclear-tired-mountain-syndrome.html

http://www.iflscience.com/policy/th...ea-halted-nuclear-testing-and-its-terrifying/

Because the "God Emperor" used his incredible psychic powers to collapse that mountain?


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## narad (Apr 30, 2018)

HeavyMetal4Ever said:


> https://www.livescience.com/62430-north-korea-nuclear-tired-mountain-syndrome.html
> 
> http://www.iflscience.com/policy/th...ea-halted-nuclear-testing-and-its-terrifying/
> 
> Because the "God Emperor" used his incredible psychic powers to collapse that mountain?



"You can take a piece of rock and set it on the ground, take a hammer, tap it; nothing will happen," said Dale Anderson, a seismologist at Los Alamos National Laboratory. You keep tapping it — and, say — the 21st time, "it will break and crack open."

Says Dale Anderson, who apparently views readers as intellectually equivalent to 5 year olds.


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## HeavyMetal4Ever (Apr 30, 2018)

Apologies if you were offended narad. Here's a link without any Dale Anderson that also seems to indicate that North Korea's nuclear program was discontinued for reasons other than pressure from Donald Trump.

http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/c...d/news-story/2a55a8744f3658c4a3ed7668bd1457fc


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## narad (Apr 30, 2018)

HeavyMetal4Ever said:


> Apologies if you were offended narad. Here's a link without any Dale Anderson that also seems to indicate that North Korea's nuclear program was discontinued for reasons other than pressure from Donald Trump.
> 
> http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/c...d/news-story/2a55a8744f3658c4a3ed7668bd1457fc



Nah, that's all fine. But I think there's many plausible reasons for why this is happening and it's not likely due to any single on of them.

Now I'm getting lots of posts about Moon Jae-In recommending Trump for the Nobel Peace Prize. I know it's catering but still, how ridiculous is that?

Number of countries Trump has threatened to destroy: >= 1
Number of countries Narad has threatened to destroy: 0

Just sayin'


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## HeavyMetal4Ever (Apr 30, 2018)

Your logic is irrefutable sir. I say we use the awesome power of SSO to start a "narad for Nobel Peace Prize" movement, who's with me?


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## vilk (Apr 30, 2018)

The reason that Trump had no issue taunting Kim isn't because he's some 5xD Chess master; it's because he actually doesn't give a shit about what happens to East Asian people. Dudeman in Japan should be the most furious, since he was gambling with _your_ life.


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## bostjan (Apr 30, 2018)

narad said:


> "You can take a piece of rock and set it on the ground, take a hammer, tap it; nothing will happen," said Dale Anderson, a seismologist at Los Alamos National Laboratory. You keep tapping it — and, say — the 21st time, "it will break and crack open."
> 
> Says Dale Anderson, who apparently views readers as intellectually equivalent to 5 year olds.



You can take a poplar tree and take a hatchet, tap it; nothing will happen, keep tapping it, and, say, the 21st time, and a bunch of North Koreans will show up and attack you.

https://web.archive.org/web/20051024105914/http://www.nautilus.org/foia/NegotiatingwithNK.pdf


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## Drew (Apr 30, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Trump reinstated tariffs on imported steel (which also affects Japan btw) and China backed down from that fight because they knew they couldn't win that battle. The economic pressures of a trade war (one the US can win btw) basically made China have to take stock of their biggest trading partner (very one sided as China's trade policies with the US are quite similar to how Japan's trade policy works with the US: LOTS of export, little import). There are a lot of moving parts in this situation, but there's one common denominator: The President and his foreign policy.


The tariffs on imported steel and aluminum have an impact on China's GDP in the ballpark of 0.03% - we're not even one of their major export markets. Meanwhile, while we hit a bit of a slowdown in the second half of the month as Trump shifted his attention to Syria and the markets to Q1 earnings, we have a US/China trade summit coming up Thursday and Friday of this week, and China has already indicated that Trump's largest two demands, an immediate $100B reduction in the trade deficit with China and a scaling back of China's $300B state investment in technology to support private Chinese firms are non-starters. If you think China pressured North Korea into making peace with the South over aluminum and steel tariffs, I don't know what to tell you - China thinks they can win a trade war with the US, and has continued to escalate, not scale back. 

Also, if you want to praise god emperors, go back to r/TheDonald. As someone living in Japan and within missile range of North Korea I hope you realize how creepy that shit is, and how complete an antithesis it is to America's secular representative democratic government. 



Tortellini said:


> I’m glad to see this.. I wonder what made this all happen?
> I don’t keep up to date with this kind of stuff, but I know the “DPRK” are not ones to accept compromise.


It's tough to say for 100% certain, but the factors I'd point to... 

1) There was evidently a collapse in North Korea's underground warhead testing facility, rendering it inoperable. NK chose to announce the end of their testing plans, sayign they'd successfully developed a weapon and had no further reason to test, in response. 
2) Kim Jong Un seems to be working hard to position himself as the adult in the room before meeting with Trump. State visit to China, peace agreement with South Korea, enhanced diplomatic presence and all-out charm offensive... Unfortunately, it appears to be working, which makes me uneasy about this upcoming summit. 
3) Source here is a friend in med school in the UK who's in the middle of the crunch for exams so I haven't been able to press her for as much detail as I want, but her parents are telling her that consensus in South Korea is that BOTH Un and Moon Jae-in are playing Trump like a fiddle. The latter's overt flattering of Trump, saying he deserves a Nobel peace prize (for, evidently, threatening to bomb North Korea off the map) makes that sound awfully plausible. 
4) Considering the TPP was intended to be a check on Chinese ambition elsewhere in Asia, and that by pulling out Trump created an unexpected vacuum (and, further, considering Trump's recent abrupt about-face), I would not be at all surprised to hear that China played a large roll in this negotiation - the state trip to China Kim Jung Un took after word of a US/North Korea summit broke was interpreted to signal a renewed commitment to North Korea after China cooled towards them as rhetoric with the States was heating up, and I wouldn't be surprised if South Korea had also been quietly negotiating with China. I'm speculating a little here, but Trump seems to have JUST figured out that trade pacts can be a useful diplomatic tool, and the timing does make me suspicious. 

So, I'd say we're seeing mostly 1 and 2, with the Koreas playing some sort of long game that we haven't seen the end of yet in #3. I can't prove 4, but give it time - South Korea may be about to become a big benefactor in China's "New Silk Road" initiative, as part of a peace deal with a Chinese ally.


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## Drew (Apr 30, 2018)

HeavyMetal4Ever said:


> Your logic is irrefutable sir. I say we use the awesome power of SSO to start a "narad for Nobel Peace Prize" movement, who's with me?


Seconded.


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## bostjan (Apr 30, 2018)

@narad might not threaten to destroy any nations, but he did threaten to destroy the mystique behind Blackmachine guitars, 

@Drew , I can guarantee that China was a part of whatever went on behind the scenes between NK and SK. China is essentially the only nation on NK's side that has a strong vested interest in their relations with SK. Trump here might be acting as a motivator, much the way a rolling boulder motivates you to move out of the way - the boulder has no idea what it's doing, nor why, but it's a large force with a high potential for destruction if you don't acknowledge it.
I also heard something about the collapse of the NK nuclear testing area. Whether that's true or not is interesting for sure, but wouldn't take away from the moment, for me, if this really is the beginning of a reunification process.
I can't see Kim taking a back seat in the reunification, though. As in, if it goes through, I'm quite certain Kim would expect to continue to be fearless leader, just over reunified Korea, rather than half of it. I really hope it all works out another way, though.


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## dreamchaser (Apr 30, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> North Korea basically agreed to demands of all surrounding countries to de-nuclearize and stop missile launches BEFORE they agreed to meet with the US. The events were going so quickly that I couldn't keep up with every tiny detail but iirc they had to agree to those terms before Trump would even meet with Li'l Kim. Also, for the record, my information is coming from the JAPANESE media, not the anti-trump biased western media, so things aren't as politically charged against him.


Agreed. We need to find the root to the cause of the brain-eating virus called "liberalism". Seriously, I'm proud to call him MY President. He may not be perfect (who is?), but I'd rather "put up" with eight years of Trump than another year of Obama, Bush, or Clinton.


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## Drew (Apr 30, 2018)

bostjan said:


> @Drew , I can guarantee that China was a part of whatever went on behind the scenes between NK and SK. China is essentially the only nation on NK's side that has a strong vested interest in their relations with SK.


I'm fairly sure China was involved, probably encouraging both North AND South Korea to at least try to reconcile. I'm even more sure, though, that sanctions on aluminum and steel imposed by the US were _not_ the reason China was involved. 

EDIT: 



bostjan said:


> I also heard something about the collapse of the NK nuclear testing area. Whether that's true or not is interesting for sure, but wouldn't take away from the moment, for me, if this really is the beginning of a reunification process.


https://gizmodo.com/north-korea-s-nuclear-test-site-has-caved-in-geologist-1825576845
It hasn't been _proven_ that the site collapsed, but Chinese geologists believe it has, and with the site 60 miles from the Chinese border China obviously isn;t too happy about this. There were a few more "credible" sources, BBC amongst them, but the Gizmodo story actually had a fair amount more analysis which I thought was interesting.


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## Drew (Apr 30, 2018)

Of course, thinking out loud here, the source of the study claiming the complex had likely collapsed after the last test is a Chinese university, and China isn't exactly known for allowing strong intellectual freedom from its universities. I think we have to at least consider the possibility that the source of that report was the Party and not university scientists. 

I'm not sure I like the repercussions of that. North Korea making nice with China and the South weeks before a meeting with Trump, China floating a story that the North Korean nuclear test center was disabled in an accident when it actually IS still fully functional (as NK claims), the South Korean president going WAY out of his way to flatter Trump, a man who thrives off flattery... I'd feel way better if we had some independent confirmation of that report.


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## narad (Apr 30, 2018)

bostjan said:


> @narad might not threaten to destroy any nations, but he did threaten to destroy the mystique behind Blackmachine guitars,



Just trying to bring peace to the marketplace


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## tedtan (May 1, 2018)

bostjan said:


> *[Trump]* has no idea what it's doing, nor why, but it's a large force with a high potential for destruction if you don't acknowledge it.



Sounds like Trump, alright.




Drew said:


> I'm not sure I like the repercussions of that. North Korea making nice with China and the South weeks before a meeting with Trump, China floating a story that the North Korean nuclear test center was disabled in an accident when it actually IS still fully functional (as NK claims), the South Korean president going WAY out of his way to flatter Trump, a man who thrives off flattery... I'd feel way better if we had some independent confirmation of that report.



+1

Trump is not who we need in office for these types of situations.


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## groverj3 (May 1, 2018)

I've heard it said that NK feeling that they had sufficiently armed themselves might eventually lead to them ceasing hostilities. No idea if that's happening here though.

Any kind of reunification is going to take decades to even get started, and it'll be far harder than East and West German reunification. Also, you KNOW that the US is going to try to stick themselves into this to find a way to help US-based companies profit off of it.


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## Grand Moff Tim (May 1, 2018)

Drew said:


> consensus in South Korea is that BOTH *Un *and Moon Jae-in are playing Trump like a fiddle.



Just hopping in to point out that Kim Jong-Un's family name is "Kim," and "Un" is just the second half of his first name. Referring to him as just "Un" is like referring to Trump as "Ald." In the interest of clarity and egalitarianism, I suggest we all refer to him as President Ald from here on out.


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## bostjan (May 2, 2018)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Just hopping in to point out that Kim Jong-Un's family name is "Kim," and "Un" is just the second half of his first name. Referring to him as just "Un" is like referring to Trump as "Ald." In the interest of clarity and egalitarianism, I suggest we all refer to him as President Ald from here on out.


Stjan thinks this is a pretty good idea dea.


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## vilk (May 2, 2018)

Kim is Korean for gold!


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## Drew (May 2, 2018)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Just hopping in to point out that Kim Jong-Un's family name is "Kim," and "Un" is just the second half of his first name. Referring to him as just "Un" is like referring to Trump as "Ald." In the interest of clarity and egalitarianism, I suggest we all refer to him as President Ald from here on out.


 You know, I knew that it didn't correspond exactly to American norms, so I'd really just tried to NOT shorten it, just in case I got it wrong. Looks like one slipped through anyway.


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## Grand Moff Tim (May 2, 2018)

vilk said:


> Kim is Korean for gold!



Sortof. The hanja used for his surname is the character for gold, but the actual word for gold is "geum."


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## wannabguitarist (May 13, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Praise the god emperor!



Jeff Kiesel?


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## bostjan (May 14, 2018)

wannabguitarist said:


> Jeff Kiesel?


Make America Beveled Again!


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## Cabinet (Oct 21, 2018)

Drew said:


> I'm fairly sure China was involved, probably encouraging both North AND South Korea to at least try to reconcile. I'm even more sure, though, that sanctions on aluminum and steel imposed by the US were _not_ the reason China was involved.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> ...


China's involvement in North Korea makes perfect sense and I'd argue that China has a stronger influence than the US does (in this scenario). We must also consider the consequences of NK failing. The refugees will flee the country into China and China will be forced to react. For a country that operates so secluded, it's a delicate situation.
Then we have to consider the ethnic geographic complexities of where this territory belongs, as SK and Japan have a mixed relationship, and China seeks to expand more into the South China Sea. China has a geographic, economic and demographic superiority which the US has only military force.
NK only became a serious situation once they went nuclear and now they are forcing international involvement.


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