# Best mics for recording metal guitar?



## gnoll (Jun 9, 2016)

What are the "best" (subjective, I know) microphones for recording metal guitar? I guess the sm57 is one of the most widely used ones, but is it the best? Are more expensive options better or is that wasted money?


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## TedEH (Jun 9, 2016)

I think it's safe to say everyone's going to reply with "there is no best", so we'll just get that out of the way: there is no best.

That being said, maybe a 57 is the standard for a good reason. Maybe it really is "the best" in that sense, but it depends on what you're going for. You could spend all kinds of money on "better" (read: more expensive) mics, but whether or not they sound better is entirely up to the listener. 

The best mic also isn't going to do you much good without the best source material to record (a great amp/sound), the best mic preamp/interface/etc, the best mixing skills, etc. All I mean by that is that if your recorded tone isn't quite what you want, then maybe it's the mic, but maybe it's something else. IMO, you'll want to upgrade whatever you figure is the weakest link in the chain.

Rather than replacing the 57, maybe blend it with something. To my ears a 57 + a condenser sounds pretty full.


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## Mike (Jun 9, 2016)

My favorite is the Heil PR20. I like it a lot more for guitar than I do the SM57. The PR20 records a smoother top end and has more body than the 57. To me the 57 adds unnecessary fizz that needs taken out and usually needs some warmth added in. Between the two, I've gotten much better mix ready results out of the gate with the PR20.

here's a pretty good comparison video (3:13 Heil Solo, 3:27 Shure Solo):


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## gnoll (Jun 9, 2016)

TedEH said:


> I think it's safe to say everyone's going to reply with "there is no best", so we'll just get that out of the way: there is no best.
> 
> That being said, maybe a 57 is the standard for a good reason. Maybe it really is "the best" in that sense, but it depends on what you're going for. You could spend all kinds of money on "better" (read: more expensive) mics, but whether or not they sound better is entirely up to the listener.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I dunno, from most comparisons I've listened to the 57 is just kinda underwhelming. Often sounds a bit weak and boxy. I've thought at times that maybe people use it too much without questioning if it's the right option for the situation, simply because it is the "standard".

And what you mention about other factors also affecting the end result, yeah I agree for sure. I really do try to get the best sounding (to my ears) of everything in order to achieve optimal tone. It can be hard since different combinations can work more or less well, but I try my best.



Mike said:


> My favorite is the Heil PR20. I like it a lot more for guitar than I do the SM57. The PR20 records a smoother top end and has more body than the 57. To me the 57 adds unnecessary fizz that needs taken out and usually needs some warmth added in. Between the two, I've gotten much better mix ready results out of the gate with the PR20.
> 
> here's a pretty good comparison video (3:13 Heil Solo, 3:27 Shure Solo):




Yeah man, I actually got myself a pr20 a while back since it seemed to be the best choice in the price range. But then I start thinking, what about a pr30...? Or what about......??? etc.


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## cw2908 (Jun 9, 2016)

57 or 609


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## jerm (Jun 9, 2016)

Mic placement matters a lot. If you find the SM57 too fizzy, then don't point it too close to the cone.

That said the PR20 is an awesome mic as is the e609 that was already mentioned. 

An awesome combo is a SM57 and sennheiser MD421.


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## kamello (Jun 9, 2016)

jerm said:


> Mic placement matters a lot. If you find the SM57 too fizzy, then don't point it too close to the cone.
> 
> That said the PR20 is an awesome mic as is the e609 that was already mentioned.
> 
> An awesome combo is a SM57 and sennheiser MD421.




this

agreed with the guys above too, regarding there is no ''best'' 
also, if you are having problems with ''boxyness'' pay attention to the 400hz area. If it is too honky or fizzy; 1200 and 4000 Hz respectively 

those are last resources though, always try to get the best tone ''out of the box''



with that aside, I really like the SM57/421 in Mesa cabs, Audix i5 when Im bored with the 57 sound. Aside from that, one that Im dying to try (because the impulses of it sounds killer) are the Neumann TLM 103, or his big brother, the U87, but the $1000 and $3000 price tag make it hard


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## jerm (Jun 9, 2016)

^Ya, the Audix I5 and e609 are great alternatives to the industry standard SM57. The PR20 is slightly more expensive than these 3, but awesome nonetheless.


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## shredfreak (Jun 9, 2016)

jerm said:


> Mic placement matters a lot. If you find the SM57 too fizzy, then don't point it too close to the cone.
> 
> That said the PR20 is an awesome mic as is the e609 that was already mentioned.
> 
> An awesome combo is a SM57 and sennheiser MD421.



In a live situation an e609 is simply the best thing ever. Hang it over the cab, tape it down & no more jackasses running over mic-stands.

The 57 is pretty much the first mic people should be buying, not only because it's a cheap pick up second hand (or new for that matter). It does much more then guitars (hi hat & snare mainly).

On guitars specifically the 57 is a lot more focused so it makes great for a main tone with something else blended togheter with it. 

On my bands recordings i recieved a VR1 & PR31 for guitar tracks. I can't stand listening to either mics, mainly because they're put in the wrong place and the guitar has too much gain. (Originally asked for 2 57's fredman with a 421 closer to edge to blend with). Guess i'll have to live with the ....ty 1st demo that should've never seen the light of day. The "fix it in the mix" attitude these days is downright aggrevating though.


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## Ebony (Jun 9, 2016)

There are better options, but the price gap between the 57 and the mics that are better made than it is big. 

Having said that, as long as the gear you're using can do the actual work, it is largely a matter of peronal taste.


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## KingAenarion (Jun 9, 2016)

kamello said:


> Aside from that, one that Im dying to try (because the impulses of it sounds killer) are the Neumann TLM 103, or his big brother, the U87, but the $1000 and $3000 price tag make it hard



If you like the TLM series the Audio Technica AT4050 is actually imo a better microphone, and is multi-pattern (and cheaper too!)

Also the AKG414s are lovely.

U87s are certainly nice, but they have a sound and it doesn't always work on every tone. U87s are to microphones what like Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier is to Metal Amps. It'll do the job incredibly well, but it's not always the best choice and sometimes can be detrimental to the sound slightly because of its characteristics.


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## prlgmnr (Jun 10, 2016)

Beyer M201 gets some love but I haven't tried one


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## Drew (Jun 10, 2016)

The SM57 is a classic for a reason - it's a little fiddly to position right, but it sort of picks up everything you want in a guitar, and nothing you don't. 

If you want to spend more money on mics, you can do some cool stuff with two SM57s, and I'm a recent convert to the SM57/421 combo, as well. Also, a cheaper ribbon might be worth a try, too - I have a Nady ribbon that sounds pretty good on cabs, but I've since learned those guys are pretty roundly loathed in the Bay Area for pushing all the clubs onto the pay-to-play model so I can't really recommend it (and actually haven't even used it in years). Maybe look for something that's not so expensive if you accidentally fry it with phantom power or drop it or just turn your cab up loader than it can handle you won't feel too badly.


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## bostjan (Jun 10, 2016)

I like pairing an SM57 up close with a nice condenser (a la AKG C414) far away, then fiddle with the position and angle of the SM57(s) until I get frustrated enough that I don't care anymore and just want to record.


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## Descent (Jun 10, 2016)

For q while I did Shure SM57, Sennheiser e835 and AT4040 - the two dynamics on the same spot on the grille, the AT either as ambient about half to a foot away or on another speaker at about the same spot I was capturing with the other mics, then phase aligned and blended to taste. 

The mixer I worked at the time had a sweepable phase so you could really dial it in. I then lightly compressed and submixed all to one channels on the DAW after I dialed in what I wanted to hear. 

Kind of an old school technique now as most people leave the mixing choices for later. There was always a safety DI running so I guess I could always go back to the source if needed but rarely did. 

Nowadays I do the same thing with SM57 or AKG D880 and C3000B or AT4040, usually one dynamic and one condenser at the same spot and I keep them miked on two separate cabs so I don't have to tear down. 

I'd love to eventually get a ribbon to play with but unfortunately the good one (Royer) is way out of my current budget. 

I like the directness and aggression of the dynamics but the condensers pick up some nuance and air that add an extra sweetness to the tone, evne if you have to eq a lot in some cases.


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## prlgmnr (Jun 11, 2016)

Descent said:


> The mixer I worked at the time had a sweepable phase so you could really dial it in.



That sounds handy, does this exist in plugin form that you know of?

edit: ah, there's the Beta PhaseBug which I appear to have already downloaded about 6 months ago


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## noUser01 (Jun 11, 2016)

The 57 is the standard, and I think everyone should have one, but the 421 gets a lot of use too. Heil PR40 is also great. Lots of options out there so feel free to experiment. The 57 is very mid-focused, so the "boxiness" is a result of that low and high end roll off. A lot of people like to combine a 57 with other microphones that have a nicer high end register to deal with that issue. Same with the low end too sometimes. You can also use the Fredman technique to get more flexibility from the 57 sound, getting rid of a lot of the harshness in the high end that some people don't like.

I highly recommend getting a 57 and learning how to get the best sound from it, simply because there's a good reason it's the standard, and you'll want to learn how to dial in tones, mic cabs, and mix with it. You can always rent other microphones to try out and see what you like.


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## TamanShud (Jun 11, 2016)

I'm so happy to see some love here for Heil mics, they're way underrated I've found.

OT: My go-to combo is an AKG414 and an Audio-Technica ATM23HE mixed with a DI and balanced to taste


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jun 11, 2016)

If its not a 57, it usually doesn't sound right to me. The industry didnt just decide arbitrarily that the 57 is the standard. Its the standard because its the standard.


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## noUser01 (Jun 12, 2016)

TamanShud said:


> I'm so happy to see some love here for Heil mics, they're way underrated I've found.
> 
> OT: My go-to combo is an AKG414 and an Audio-Technica ATM23HE mixed with a DI and balanced to taste



Very interesting, I've only ever worked on tracks where the 414 was used as a drum room mic (which sounded AWESOME).


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## Descent (Jun 12, 2016)

prlgmnr said:


> That sounds handy, does this exist in plugin form that you know of?
> 
> edit: ah, there's the Beta PhaseBug which I appear to have already downloaded about 6 months ago



I think you'd just match it manually by moving the waveform, the problem not doing it in a desk is that you'd have to have 0 latency monitoring on the drums so you can hear the phase correctly when you sweep it via the plugin. 

BTW, I've used C414's virtually on everything and you can rarely go wrong with this mic. Even attended one super $$$$ session where every tom was miked with a C414 and the overheads were Neumanns and it was 

I managed to build myself a sample library of that setup when the drummer and head engineer left, it gets a lot of use


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## atoragon (Jun 13, 2016)

I have seen that for metal the 2 most used combo are sm57+md421 and sm57+royer121


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## Descent (Jun 13, 2016)

atoragon said:


> I have seen that for metal the 2 most used combo are sm57+md421 and sm57+royer121



You're probably right, especially now when people just read forum and parrot other's advices instead of trying an original approach. 

I've actually worked with some engineers that are not metalheads, and it is interesting to see how a classical music engineer will approach these things sometimes. I remember we built an acoustic chamber tunnel with gobos with one guy and put in stereo pairs down it at different distances. That was for lead guitar though.


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## noUser01 (Jun 13, 2016)

atoragon said:


> I have seen that for metal the 2 most used combo are sm57+md421 and sm57+royer121



It's hard to make a broad statement about "most used" and "metal" as a whole, but these are two very common combos for sure.


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## aqa (Jun 13, 2016)

As others guys said above, if you are a starting experimenting, get a sm57, and start learning mic positioning, dial the amps gain, amp eq, volume sweet spot, tube screamers, double or quad tracking

That kind of stuff matters a lot


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## Necris (Jun 13, 2016)

I like the SM57 but I've gotten tones I like as much or more with other microphones. 

I've actually gravitated towards ribbon mics as of late, however, they certainly aren't for everyone. They're super sensitive to placement and distance from the cab and have a handful of strange quirks and drawbacks, such as super high impedance and fragility, that would put most people off even if they liked the sound from the start (which isn't true of most people who are accustomed to dynamics or condensers).
I've experimented with a Tube condenser as well but the weight of that microphone makes setup an absolute bastard even though I recall liking the results.


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## newamerikangospel (Jun 13, 2016)

Just to reiterate, the heil pr20 is my go to for v30s and depending on what I want a g25. The first time I positioned mine with pink noise then started riffing (cab in the other room) I was blown away. It has a weird "sag"/dynamic to the tone, whereas the sm57 sounds very stiff.


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## Descent (Jun 14, 2016)

I've done some cool stuff with PZM's as well, as a stereo pair about 2 feet away attached to a wooden board (piano top) with the board facing the 4x12. It was a trick usually done for comp mono drum trick (compress and add some tube grit, mix in the back for glue). 

Also had great results using a Shure Beta 87A when I did a session where we ran out of guitar mics and just took the vocalist's mic for one of the guitars.


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## jsmalleus (Jun 15, 2016)

People have already mentioned most of the mics I've been digging, some really good advice so far. I just wanted to chime in a recommendation for some of those who mentioned they wanted to dabble with ribbon mics but the royer cost is a bit prohibitive. Same boat here, I just wanted to slate my ribbon curiosity & get some experience with them, so I tried a cascade fathead, and it's actually pretty sweet. I got the BE (bare essentials) stock one, but they have others with transformer upgrades, etc. if you're looking for some variance. The BE can be had for $129 new (or less with offer options), so it's not much more than a 57 if you're feeling curious 

Just make sure you test it, they are sensitive and the initial one I got must have been tossed around a bit during shipping. I had (like a moron) let it sit in the box past the return window from B&H before I tried it out & couldn't return it, luckily Cascade CS was awesome and they just sent me a new one and had me put the old one in the box & send it back.


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## Descent (Jun 16, 2016)

Samson VR88 is another one I've been hearing good things about, but the price is still a bit crazy. Don't know if I want to spend that much on a mic right now.


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## cGoEcYk (Jun 23, 2016)

Audix i5 and Senn e609/906 are nice modern mics in the inexpensive category.


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## Ploki (Jun 25, 2016)

try beyerdynamic opus99 on guitars. PM for a clip.

new name is TG D70d


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## gnoll (Jun 25, 2016)

Man, this thread turned out better than I expected, really cool replies. There's definitely a lot of mics I'd like to try although I guess the sensible thing is probably to start out with the pr20 I already have. Sigh, I wish I had an unlimited budget...


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## AntonioPetrole (Jun 26, 2016)

My Royer R121 was my favorite mic I've ever had for guitars. I couldn't possibly find a way to ever make it sound harsh or unusable. Blended with a 57 (for that bite) was always a killer combo.


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## Sopko (Jun 27, 2016)

I have had a lot of good results pairing a Rode NT1000 and e609 or the all powerful SM57. I never use the SM57 by itself though.


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## Drew (Jun 30, 2016)

gnoll said:


> Man, this thread turned out better than I expected, really cool replies. There's definitely a lot of mics I'd like to try although I guess the sensible thing is probably to start out with the pr20 I already have. Sigh, I wish I had an unlimited budget...



You and me both.  

I'd love a Royer, but those things are a bit rich for my blood.


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