# Need difficult stuff to practice



## gnoll (Jun 24, 2021)

I've been playing much more than usual lately and I've become kind of bored with the stuff I normally play (even if I haven't mastered it yet by any means).

So I'd like some suggestions of really difficult stuff/techniques/exercises etc. to try and learn. Like what's the hardest stuff possible to do on a guitar? I want something challenging that's really gonna take time to learn.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jun 24, 2021)

necrophagist has a metric ton of tricky riffage. 
same with spawn of posession.


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## budda (Jun 24, 2021)

Jazz.


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## Amer Alameddine (Jun 24, 2021)

A lot of death metal is challenging if that genre is something you like.


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## HungryGuitarStudent (Jun 24, 2021)

gnoll said:


> I've been playing much more than usual lately and I've become kind of bored with the stuff I normally play (even if I haven't mastered it yet by any means).
> 
> So I'd like some suggestions of really difficult stuff/techniques/exercises etc. to try and learn. Like what's the hardest stuff possible to do on a guitar? I want something challenging that's really gonna take time to learn.



Learn any track from Stephen Taranto's Permanence EP. Tabs available via SheetHappens.


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## Mathemagician (Jun 24, 2021)

A lot of Polyphia will push your technique.


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## gnoll (Jun 24, 2021)

Cool, I'm checking out the mentioned stuff!

It's easier with more specific recs though, like a certain part or technique or such even. I tend to not have patience to learn whole songs, I kinda just want the really difficult parts to grind out and add to my toolbox.


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## bostjan (Jun 24, 2021)

I don't know where you are at right now, technically, nor musically, but here's some stuff I find challenging and fun:

Buckethead - Jowls
Symphony X - Out of the Ashes
Blotted Science - Synaptic Plasticity
Dream Theater - Under a Glass Moon (if you have a nice floating trem) or Erotomania (otherwise)

Maybe a little less difficult, but still fun:
Tim Follin - Silver Surfer NES Theme Song
Brad "Buster" Jones - The Wizard of Oz
Mattias IA Eklundh - Print This
Hellecasters - Ghosts of 42nd Street
Django Reinhardt - Djangology
Al Di Meola - Race with the Devil on a Spanish Highway
Lecuona - Malaguena
Focus - Hocus Pocus (Seriously, try it, it's much more difficult than people give it credit)


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## Amer Alameddine (Jun 24, 2021)

Down Picking: Master of Puppets - Metallica (intro riff)
Alternate Picking: Far Beyond the Sun - Yngwie Malmsteen (run right after intro)
Sweep Picking: This Godless Endeavor - Nevermore (run right after the bridge, you'll know it when you hear it)
Legato/Tapping: Autotheism part 2 - The Faceless (the run right before the ending solo)
Tremelo PIcking: 

Hope these help you out.


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## budda (Jun 24, 2021)

gnoll said:


> Cool, I'm checking out the mentioned stuff!
> 
> It's easier with more specific recs though, like a certain part or technique or such even. I tend to not have patience to learn whole songs, I kinda just want the really difficult parts to grind out and add to my toolbox.



Sounds like the difficult part is learning a whole song then  try doing that first!

edit: I'm the guy who would skip learning solos, this is should not be taken as grandstanding


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## mastapimp (Jun 24, 2021)

When I challenge myself, I try to play stuff that's a little out of my comfort zone like fingerstyle pieces or chicken picking licks. Pierre Bensusan, Laurence Juber, Michael Hedges, Jerry Reed, Earl Klugh...
Other times I'll transcribe a song that doesn't have any tabs or is obscure that nobody is trying to play (Kevin Huffnagel stuff, Marty Friedman's solo material, James Murphy's solo material).


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## BenjaminW (Jun 24, 2021)

I've been trying some Yngwie songs recently, and am gonna try and learn some Michael Schenker songs entirely by ear.

But I think Yngwie is more up your alley if you want something actually difficult to play.


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## BornToLooze (Jun 28, 2021)




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## Lorcan Ward (Jun 29, 2021)

gnoll said:


> Cool, I'm checking out the mentioned stuff!
> 
> It's easier with more specific recs though, like a certain part or technique or such even. I tend to not have patience to learn whole songs, I kinda just want the really difficult parts to grind out and add to my toolbox.



String Skipping : Racer X - Scarified 
Alternative/Economy Picking : Dionysus - Divine
Difficult Picking : Imperanon - Blade + Shadowsouls
Awkward fingering : Maksim - Cubana
Arpeggios with legato : Rusty Cooley - Under the Influence
Uncoventional Arpeggios : Shane Gibson - Emo Village Pillage
Tapping Arpeggios : My "own" lick
Alternate Picking Shred : Sonata Arctica - Picturing the Past + Wolf And Raven + Don't Say a Word
Downpicking + Shred : DOOM - E1M1
Sweep Picking - Sweep it like a Janitor

Some of my personal favourites all included in a tab pack below.


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## gnoll (Jun 29, 2021)

This thread is gold, thanks everybody.


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## Pietjepieter (Jun 30, 2021)

Cool threat, some random hard stuff I try to practice and fail but anyway:

Nevermore - Born chorus riff: alternate+economy picking
Mastodon - Divinations verse: hybrid picking
Random Obscura riffs: lots of string skiping / alternate picking
Archspire - remote tumor seeker intro riff: string skipping
Paul Gilbert / Racer x - technical difficulties: alternate picking and switching between 16e noteds and sixtiplets
Tried some Monuments lately super cool for down picking (Animus intro riff is cool)

(note most of the above I can not play at full speed but fuck it, thy are fun riffs  )


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## gnoll (Jul 1, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Erotomania



I have to say this quintuplet thing is so awesome. I love how it uses these 3nps patterns but turns around at the perfect time to not repeat any notes, and at the same time giving it the awesome quintuplet timing.


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## Joan Maal (Jul 5, 2021)




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## termin8or44 (Jul 5, 2021)

I'm surprised no mention of Protest the Hero yet!


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 5, 2021)

I used to say Protest the Hero to anyone looking for difficult songs to learn but mine and everyone else’s tabs on UG are blocked so you have to buy the semi-correct tabs from sheet happens now.


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## gnoll (Jul 18, 2021)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Wolf And Raven



I've been practicing this one quite a bit now and it's pretty hard.

G---9-7-5---7-5--------------5-7-5--------
D----------9------9-7-6-7-9----------9-7--

(not sure if tab will be readable but anyway...)

The stretching required for this is pretty tough for my tiny hands. Also since it's in Eb tuning I have to play it on even lower frets! Argh!

The picking with changing strings is really hard. When it goes down for the single note on the D string close to the start, it's really really difficult to play it and have that note be nice and audible. My pick wants to kind of just glance the string and make a pickslidey noise. Also the last 4 notes and starting over are really difficult for some reason. My hands want to play the last two notes as ascending instead of descending.

Anyway it feels like a good exercise since it's so brutally difficult. I can kind of play along to the song at 75% speed now but at 100% it's really fast, dunno how the band does it.


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## fantom (Jul 20, 2021)

If you are into Emperor, Ihsahn transcribed all of the songs from Scattered Ashes years ago. I think you can pick any song/part from that compilation. Ihsahn's playing style is very different than the 3 notes per strong and CAGED every other band uses. Super valuable to learn a different approach to writing and playing. I wouldn't say the parts themselves are difficult, more the chord and fingering choices take practice.

The PDF is pretty easy to find.


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## gnoll (Jul 20, 2021)

fantom said:


> If you are into Emperor, Ihsahn transcribed all of the songs from Scattered Ashes years ago. I think you can pick any song/part from that compilation. Ihsahn's playing style is very different than the 3 notes per strong and CAGED every other band uses. Super valuable to learn a different approach to writing and playing. I wouldn't say the parts themselves are difficult, more the chord and fingering choices take practice.
> 
> The PDF is pretty easy to find.



I bought that book ages ago 

It's very cool since the songs can be a bit hard to figure out from the records.


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## Robslalaina (Jul 20, 2021)

Try Yankee Doodle Dixie by Chet Atkins, especially the first 40 seconds where he plays both melodies at the same time. It's very short but brutal if you're originally a metal/rock player with zero finger picking background. And it sounds like music, too.


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## Lemonbaby (Jul 20, 2021)

Solo for 30 minutes over a loop of "Giant Steps". This one from Rick Graham's also not easy to pull it off so effortless...


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## CerealKiller (Jul 20, 2021)

^Pentatonic 3nps is always fun, I spent soooo many hours trying to get Colorado Bulldog down. 

I could also suggest stuff like Bumblefoot's 'Guitars Suck' or 'Guitars Still Suck', as they are both ridiculously difficult - combinations of hybrid picking, sweeping, tapping, alternate picking, odd groupings, thimble stuff, etc., at very high tempos... 
But make sure you get the basics right, otherwise it won't matter how much time you put into it. If stretches like the one you posted are too much, have a look at your hand and thumb positioning.


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## Bearitone (Jul 20, 2021)

Polyphia is challenging af AND they have tabs available for literally everything they’ve released. I bought all of them as a bundle and never got around to even finishing Goose lol


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## HungryGuitarStudent (Jul 20, 2021)

gnoll said:


> I've been practicing this one quite a bit now and it's pretty hard.
> 
> G---9-7-5---7-5--------------5-7-5--------
> D----------9------9-7-6-7-9----------9-7--
> ...



Im not sure I understand your definition of stretching. In the examples you’ve tabbed all I see are « standard » 3 notes per string fingerings?


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## gnoll (Jul 20, 2021)

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Im not sure I understand your definition of stretching. In the examples you’ve tabbed all I see are « standard » 3 notes per string fingerings?



It's a long way between fret 5 and fret 9 is what I mean. I don't know what standard is, it's not standard for me I guess? And I don't know how that makes the distance any shorter.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 20, 2021)

gnoll said:


> I've been practicing this one quite a bit now and it's pretty hard.
> 
> G---9-7-5---7-5--------------5-7-5--------
> D----------9------9-7-6-7-9----------9-7--
> ...



This is what happens when a keyboardist writes metal. Sonata Arctica are full of uncomfortable/unconventional guitar patterns because they weren't wrote with a guitar in mind. I find the best way to tackle this is to not think to hard about it, you need to get your right hand going as fast as possible and let your picking hand lead the way but if you get into upstroke downstroke change string then it becomes a lot more difficult if that makes sense. You just have to go for it and let your hands naturally make up a picking pattern. 

After the solo its played up at the 14th fret which should be easier for you. My internet isn't working but there is a live clip of Jani playing this that might help.


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## HungryGuitarStudent (Jul 20, 2021)

gnoll said:


> It's a long way between fret 5 and fret 9 is what I mean. I don't know what standard is, it's not standard for me I guess? And I don't know how that makes the distance any shorter.



Going from 5 to 9 on the same string is just two whole steps, I don’t find that a big stretch for average hands. It’s a major 3rd interval, which comes up often in 3 notes per string major scale fingering patterns, i.e. patterns that a lot of people play. Not criticizing, just pointing out that such fingerings are common.


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## fantom (Jul 20, 2021)

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Im not sure I understand your definition of stretching. In the examples you’ve tabbed all I see are « standard » 3 notes per string fingerings?



Ya, this lick seems pretty par for course with 3 notes per string. It isn't really a stretch (and I have small hands) unless you are playing a longer scale length.

Make sure you are using your middle finger for the 7th fret and pinky for 9th. The only "stretch" should be moving your index finger from the 6th fret to the 5th fret.

Also, your wrist positioning and thumb on the lower part of the back of neck will make this easier to play.



Lorcan Ward said:


> This is what happens when a keyboardist writes metal. Sonata Arctica are full of uncomfortable/unconventional guitar patterns because they weren't wrote with a guitar in mind. I find the best way to tackle this is to not think to hard about it, you need to get your right hand going as fast as possible and let your picking hand lead the way but if you get into upstroke downstroke change string then it becomes a lot more difficult if that makes sense. You just have to go for it and let your hands naturally make up a picking pattern.



The tabbed pattern? How is that a keyboardist?! It looks fairly common for 80s shred all the way up to folk metal.


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## gnoll (Jul 21, 2021)

I mean that's great if you guys think it's easy.

I've barely played a scale in my life, and I don't know "patterns" on a guitar. Okay? If something is "common" that has no relevence to me.

I grew up playing a bunch of power chord riffs where I basically never had to move my fingers further than 3 frets, mostly just 2. And when playing normal power chords I'll use my pinky because otherwise it's uncomfortable due to how much I have to spread my fingers. I'm not Paul Gilbert, I'm somebody finally trying to learn a bit more guitar.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 21, 2021)

fantom said:


> The tabbed pattern? How is that a keyboardist?! It looks fairly common for 80s shred all the way up to folk metal.



Look at it closer but you also need to see the runs on my tab after both of the patterns and it will become obvious. 99% of guitar music follows very strict patterns so when a keyboardist writes the music you will come across patterns that a guitarist would rarely every think of. It’s why a lot of players start writing on piano to break out of their boxy habits.


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## HungryGuitarStudent (Jul 21, 2021)

gnoll said:


> I mean that's great if you guys think it's easy.
> 
> I've barely played a scale in my life, and I don't know "patterns" on a guitar. Okay? If something is "common" that has no relevence to me.
> 
> I grew up playing a bunch of power chord riffs where I basically never had to move my fingers further than 3 frets, mostly just 2. And when playing normal power chords I'll use my pinky because otherwise it's uncomfortable due to how much I have to spread my fingers. I'm not Paul Gilbert, I'm somebody finally trying to learn a bit more guitar.



Please don't take our remarks as us attacking or mocking you. We all have different journeys and skill levels 

Personally, I was just trying to get a grasp of your definition of the term "difficult". Again, not criticizing, just trying to help by finding suggestions relevant to your needs. Case in point, my suggestion of Stephen Taranto solos is useless because it seems several levels above your current playing ability.

Here's a 3 notes per string run that might help you figure things out in terms of fingerings and alternate picking. Maybe try it at 50% or even 30% tempo.

Metropolis Part 1, Dream Theater, bars 129 to 136 (bar numbers are written in upper-left corner of each bar): https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/dre...part-1-the-miracle-and-the-sleeper-tab-s67675


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## gnoll (Jul 21, 2021)

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Please don't take our remarks as us attacking or mocking you. We all have different journeys and skill levels
> 
> Personally, I was just trying to get a grasp of your definition of the term "difficult". Again, not criticizing, just trying to help by finding suggestions relevant to your needs. Case in point, my suggestion of Stephen Taranto solos is useless because it seems several levels above your current playing ability.
> 
> ...



Eh, the suggestions have been good, I did say I wanted difficult stuff.

I like trying things that are difficult. If I manage to learn something hard that's better than if I manage to learn something easy.

I'm gonna try your difficult suggestion, it's even better if you don't think I can do it, because then I have something to prove.


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## gnoll (Jul 21, 2021)

Ok I changed my mind, that music is really not my thing.


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## HungryGuitarStudent (Jul 21, 2021)

gnoll said:


> Eh, the suggestions have been good, I did say I wanted difficult stuff.
> 
> I like trying things that are difficult. If I manage to learn something hard that's better than if I manage to learn something easy.
> 
> I'm gonna try your difficult suggestion, it's even better if you don't think I can do it, because then I have something to prove.



Not saying you should play stuff that’s easy for you.

Anyways, whatever works for you; got nothing to prove to me man.

My difficult suggestion is Stephen Taranto’s solo to the song Away (by Plini).

Tabs: https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/plini-away-solo-tab-s399131

Here’s Stephen teaching the solo.


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## gnoll (Jul 21, 2021)

HungryGuitarStudent said:


> Whatever works for you, got nothing to prove to me man.
> 
> My difficult suggestion is Stephen Taranto’s solo to the song Away (by Plini).
> 
> ...




Damn, that guys fingers are seriously twice as long as mine.


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## bassisace (Jul 21, 2021)

What’s your index length?

Once you’ve fretted a note with your index, you don’t need to hold it there, you can lift it up before you fret the next note. That’ll relieve tension and require less stretching. I have smallish hands and I do that all the time for stretchy stuff.

Try the Dream Theater lick that was suggested, no stretches there and a good alt picking workout.


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## gnoll (Jul 21, 2021)

I'll look for a ruler tomorrow!


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## CerealKiller (Jul 22, 2021)

And just to reiterate, take a look at your thumbs position. If I have mine over the neck, I can only just play that 5-7-9 pattern, but if I keep it really low I can do as much as 5-8-12.


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## gnoll (Jul 22, 2021)

Yeah I always move the thumb to make everything as easy as possible.


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## Lorcan Ward (Jul 22, 2021)

You can see Jani playing it live in this video. They play it in a different key live so its 3 frets down:


Elias plays it an octave lower now


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