# Harley Benton Headless/Multiscale anyone?



## Constructivist (Jul 6, 2018)

Hey guys. I recently saw some of these NK headless guitars and I was amazed that they can produce something with such specs for this price. Seeing Harley Benton (which is the EU version of a budget guitar brand) coming up with decent guitars in nice prices I was wondering of the following:

*Would you be interested in a Harley Benton headless with fanned frets?*
If so what would be the specs of your preference?

I would go for:
-six string 27'-25.5' B standard tuning
-laminated maple neck with 24 frets
-a modern thin c neck profile
-single neck humbucker with only a volume pot
-a nice colorful stain
-i wouldnt be too picky on wood as what matters is the price. Id prefer natural figuring than a veneer

If there is more interest maybe we could create some awareness. Hey a Chinese made Strandberg for more than 1000 euro? I'm sure its a good guitar but bloody expensive.


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## blacai (Jul 6, 2018)

Constructivist said:


> Hey a Chinese made Strandberg for more than 1000 euro? I'm sure its a good guitar but bloody expensive.


Although I also think Strandbergs became expensive for what they offer and their actual QC... Harley Benton are toy guitars. I own a Deko model, which costed me 70€ and I have played ton of them, because in Germany you can find any everywhere quite easy.
Harley Bentons are not consistent in any sense and whoever says they are good for the price would find a better alternative in the current yamaha, ibanez, jackson cheapest range with better QC.


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## Constructivist (Jul 6, 2018)

Agree but I dont see any of these brands making a headless multiscale for bellow 300 euro anytime soon. There is practically no alternative to the NK guitars in the market.


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## blacai (Jul 6, 2018)

Constructivist said:


> Agree but I dont see any of these brands making a headless multiscale for bellow 300 euro anytime soon. There is practically no alternative to the NK guitars in the market.


You could buy some of the DIY kits for a headless guitar. Cheaper than a maybe future harley benton headless for sure. Just check the new line HB is creating. They are moving to the mid-range leaving behind the idea of "best cheaper brand". 
If you need some specific features and an average hardware, you cannot expect a good final product. Costs is there and they save somewhere.


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## pick_d (Jul 6, 2018)

I ran across this video by ArnoldPlaysGuitar few days ago. Might be useful for you.



TL;DW: cheap but useless.

I've never owned HB guitars, but I assume that 'you'll get what you paid for', which means that you'll get huge load of problems with cheap guitar. Excellent way if you want to try yourself in luthiery and check if you're able to fix all those issues.
If you're not up for that, I suppose it's a great way to waste time, but it's your time and you decide.


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## RiksRiks (Jul 6, 2018)

I've never played HB guitars, but if you told me that a multi scale, headless, good looking guitar was selling new for 350-ish USD I'd give it a shot. The Arnold's video shows a very clear point, however I think it's fair to assume that it's a hit-or-miss with HB QC. Better than Legator I would expect. 

But in the end, where are HB guitars made? Probably you could get a NK and end up with the same result right? What is the advantage of buying them from thomann? VAT excluding? 

Also, I think Strandbergs are overpriced (even though I just bought one and is amazing) so I agree that we have a share of the market that nobody seems to care for (but keep in mind that headless multi scales are a veeeery niche market) so why should they keep their QC to the max? Wouldn't it be a waste of money? I really don't have a clue on how thomann works so maybe I'm missing something here. 

TL;DR: good idea, but probably would end up Legatoring


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## lewis (Jul 7, 2018)

I would buy about 174 Harley Benton headless guitars. Like would spam them completely.

Would do loads for a multiscale headless range from thomann.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 7, 2018)

honestly they'll probably be shit at that price range, unless you're willing to do a good amount of work to it. I've yet to run across super cheap guitars that manage to have decent fret ends or a properly cut nut (among other issues). Legator can't even make a decent guitar at a higher price point, so I'd expect a headless HB to be borderline firewood.
If they could somehow make a solid guitar with good specs that just needs some TLC (ie like Agile) then I might be interested. The real question is what they'd pick for a body shape, would they be lazy like legator/agile and just lop the ass end off a PRS, or would they be lazy like strandberg and lop off some chunks from a strat?


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## lewis (Jul 7, 2018)

I have owned 3 Harley Bentons and none have been shit.
I mean the fact that there are the odd lemon are offset by the fact their customer service is great and you can either get refunds no problems or unlimited exchanges until you dont get a lemon.

That alone makes them head and shoulders above other companies. I get the impression Legator would be much harder to get exchanges or refunds from for example.

If Harley Benton made headless guitars, i would embrace it entirely. Why should proper headless guitars globally so far, be out of many peoples price ranges?

More budget friendly options can only be a great thing so bring it on.


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## Constructivist (Jul 9, 2018)

lewis said:


> I have owned 3 Harley Bentons and none have been shit.


Good to hear. Its easy to talk shit on a brand isnt it?
HB can be an easy and inexpensive way to familiarize ourselves with a prog instrument such as a headless multiscale. I would easily go also for one!


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## lewis (Jul 9, 2018)

Constructivist said:


> Good to hear. Its easy to talk shit on a brand isnt it?
> HB can be an easy and inexpensive way to familiarize ourselves with a prog instrument such as a headless multiscale. I would easily go also for one!


Probablem on this board is people mostly only deal with extremes.

Its either $3500 luxury custom build or eveeything else thats trash. The norm to compare guitars is too high.
Of course HB isnt going to play like someones kiesel or strandberg. But that doesnt mean its automatically shit.
Besides the main difference is the setup. Take a HB, give it a fret job/crowing etc, a truss rod adjustment and re intonate and interms of playability its going to be sound.

Both my fan frets are awesome. Smooth fret ends too so like i said, that can be done from them. Just excahange until you get a good one. No big deal. Good mod platforms too.
I have some tiny paint blemishes on my 8 string but its playability that matters. Its hardly noticeable too.

My 6 string fan fret was considered a B stock so was cheap as. Im still yet to understand why. I expected some damage or finish flaws. It has none.


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## Lemonbaby (Jul 9, 2018)

The issue w/ headless guitars is mostly the expensive hardware. In my opinion, the top player like ABM and Hipshot don't offer 100% perfect designs and you still pay 300-400 Euro for a set. Best I used so far is Mera, but that's probably not usable for mass production due to limited availability. Even Thomann can't get around this problem because the headless guitars will always be a niche product with small quantities. If the final product ends up costing less than 600-700 USD, I wouldn't think of buying that thing...

As Arnold's review was mentioned: what's he trying to prove? A 400 Dollar guitar doesn't have "the cleanest finish work he's ever seen"?


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## Constructivist (Jul 9, 2018)

@Lemonbaby and lewis
I appreciate your honest and down to earth opinions gentlemen 

When I started this thread I proposed as a comparison an NK guitar (unknown Chines brand). I wouldn't have the expectation to play and sound like a Mayones Hydra.
It would definitely be a secondary instrument for me to figure out the whole headless multiscale thingy


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## lewis (Jul 9, 2018)

Lemonbaby said:


> The issue w/ headless guitars is mostly the expensive hardware. In my opinion, the top player like ABM and Hipshot don't offer 100% perfect designs and you still pay 300-400 Euro for a set. Best I used so far is Mera, but that's probably not usable for mass production due to limited availability. Even Thomann can't get around this problem because the headless guitars will always be a niche product with small quantities. If the final product ends up costing less than 600-700 USD, I wouldn't think of buying that thing...
> 
> As Arnold's review was mentioned: what's he trying to prove? A 400 Dollar guitar doesn't have "the cleanest finish work he's ever seen"?


so true. The Hipshot headless bridge is perfect to install but their headpieces are a joke. You need some master wood work/guitar building/cnc machine abilities to install one. Especially the thinner classic. So much so the headpiece is now for sale (if anyone wants it? haha its Chrome)

The Floyd rose style locking headpiece is infinitely easier to install than the Hipshot. And thats crazy given its literally like $15 or something and the Hipshot headpiece is around $100 haha

I liked Arnolds reviews at first, but now they are annoying. He is like a news anchor with the way he talks. That kind of Robotic tone. And his gripes are abit stupid.

Alot of the stuff he trashes, he never goes on to say "but this is a quick and easy fix - even following youtube tutorials will help"

And complaining a $400 guitar is trash, just because its not a $4000 custom build is exactly his problem and many peoples problems on here as I mentioned earlier.

I mean Woohoo for those guys. They are rich and can do all this stuff. Great, awesome. Well done.
I cant and the stuff that is in my price point constantly gets run down on here. Pretty annoying.


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## blacai (Jul 9, 2018)

"And complaining a $400 guitar is trash, just because its not a $4000 custom build is exactly his problem and many peoples problems on here as I mentioned earlier."

Well... I have played lot of harley bentons and I would not say they are trash, but most of them were unplayable without an adjusment someone without experience will not be able to do. So in my opinion the fact that HB produces budget guitars that only after a professional setup are not a sounding instrument is what makes people say they are trash.

People who want to convince themselves HB are the best option in that price range can continue to think so, but more popular brands offer right now instruments with a real QC. 
I would not trust a QC that re-sale guitars as DEKO or B-Stock until someone buys it and keeps it.

Btw, I am happy with my DEKO model


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## Constructivist (Jul 9, 2018)

Ok to rephrase the question:
What are the options for a headless multiscale below 800 euro?


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## blacai (Jul 9, 2018)

Constructivist said:


> Ok to rephrase the question:
> What are the options for a headless multiscale below 800 euro?


Due the fact hardware for headless is really expensive, I think you cannot find anything that is "good enough" for the price.
I would go for second hand ... and maybe someone is selling a strandberg classic for around 1000€.


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## lewis (Jul 9, 2018)

Constructivist said:


> Ok to rephrase the question:
> What are the options for a headless multiscale below 800 euro?


Grote, NK, Legator

I think thats it until Harley Benton DO jump on the bandwagon.

If I were you, I would go NK (they are offering tremolo fan fret strandberg type body shapes now if that floats your boat) and if you get the hardtail version, upgrade to a hipshot bridge. They replace the stock bridge perfectly as I done the same mod on my Grote (see profile pic)


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## I play music (Jul 9, 2018)

The thing is: At least here in Germany ordering from Thomann has no risks attached. Got a bad one? - No problem, send it back and get your money refunded. 
That's the big difference compared to an order from NK, Legator, Ormsby etc. 
The new Harley Benton Fusion line for example shows that Thomann approach guitar makers to produce a product under the Harley Benton name, meaning that maybe they could approach the maker of NK guitars to make the same guitar as a Harley Benton. Having above mentioned advantage. 

Now, personally I'd like a headless multi scale guitar with 7 or 8 strings and a long scale length, meaning at least 28" on the bass side. For an 8 string I'd actually like something close to 30" on the bass side. And stainless steel frets ;-)



Constructivist said:


> -single neck humbucker with only a volume pot


I hope you meant bridge humbucker


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## Constructivist (Jul 9, 2018)

lewis said:


> Grote, NK, Legator


I cant find a Legator dealer in the EU. Do they import here, any clue anyone?


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## I play music (Jul 9, 2018)

lewis said:


> I liked Arnolds reviews at first, but now they are annoying. He is like a news anchor with the way he talks. That kind of Robotic tone. And his gripes are abit stupid.
> 
> Alot of the stuff he trashes, he never goes on to say "but this is a quick and easy fix - even following youtube tutorials will help"
> 
> ...



I also find it annoying that he claims his reviews are unbiased. His opinion might be, but the product not. For example the Solar guitar he reviewed, Ola knew who was ordering it and in that situation I'd triple check to make sure the guitar sent is perfect, knowing what Arnold does with guitars ;-)


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 9, 2018)

I play music said:


> Now, personally I'd like a headless multi scale guitar with 7 or 8 strings and a long scale length, meaning at least 28" on the bass side. For an 8 string I'd actually like something close to 30" on the bass side. And stainless steel frets ;-)


yeah... you're never going to get a 30" multiscale from a production guitar, I had to go full custom to get that. getting a 28" scale with stainless frets is easy, orsmby or strandberg both do that.


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## blacai (Jul 9, 2018)

Constructivist said:


> I cant find a Legator dealer in the EU. Do they import here, any clue anyone?



Check legator spain https://www.legatorguitars.com/


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## Constructivist (Jul 10, 2018)

blacai said:


> Check legator spain


Cant really find any dealer in their website besides in the US.


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## I play music (Jul 10, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah... you're never going to get a 30" multiscale from a production guitar, I had to go full custom to get that. getting a 28" scale with stainless frets is easy, orsmby or strandberg both do that.


Sounds like a gap in the market offering that someone could fill ;-)
My impression is that the Ibanez M80M is very successful just for its scale length, even though QC seems to be so-so. 
But yeah I know that Harley Benton probably won't make a headless multi scale 30" guitar. Still, I can express what my dream guitar would look like ;-)


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## Flappydoodle (Jul 10, 2018)

lewis said:


> so true. The Hipshot headless bridge is perfect to install but their headpieces are a joke. You need some master wood work/guitar building/cnc machine abilities to install one. Especially the thinner classic. So much so the headpiece is now for sale (if anyone wants it? haha its Chrome)
> 
> The Floyd rose style locking headpiece is infinitely easier to install than the Hipshot. And thats crazy given its literally like $15 or something and the Hipshot headpiece is around $100 haha
> 
> ...



He was fair. He said if you're ok with the issues, and spending time and money to fix it, then go ahead and buy one. But he's quite clear that you should know what you're getting. 

And let's apply common sense. A multiscale headless 8 string for such a cheap price... it isn't going to be good. To sell for that low, incorporating profit margins down the chain, there are a lot of corners that need to be cut. 

I would see the value of these guitars as a toy or novelty item. I wouldn't lay down serious money for a fan fret headless 8, but a HB is cheap enough not to care.


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## Constructivist (Jul 16, 2018)

Heh... at the end of the day the NK guitars seems the most honest solution to this.


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## Pietjepieter (Jun 18, 2019)

Constructivist said:


> Cant really find any dealer in their website besides in the US.



Check thomann: https://www.thomann.de/intl/legator_ghost_gf8p_wa.htm


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## ChugThisBoy (Jun 18, 2019)

Ekhem:


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## lurè (Jun 18, 2019)

Very similar to the kiesel Osiris, just a little less "rad".


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## ChugThisBoy (Jun 18, 2019)

Sounds nice to me, considering that the pickups aren't super good (propably). And it'll have split for each pickup which is nice. Can't wait for announcement from HB. I don't know why but I'm getting Stormbender (Dev's sig) vibes from it. Dots on the neck are kinda meh for me and it's not a multiscale. Maybe they'll do it, who knows. But I'm glad that they're doing something headless.


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## lewis (Jun 18, 2019)

Im so on board with this.

You know the fan fret versions with different finishes are on the way

We get a 27-25.5 fan fret version, and I buy it now


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## Pietjepieter (Jun 19, 2019)

Hum this looks quite interesting, if they come up with a 8 string fan fret version, i might buy one as back up!


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## I play music (Jun 22, 2019)

ChugThisBoy said:


> Ekhem:



Bridge pieces are the same as on GOC headless guitars. Apparently there finally is affordable headless hardware that works. 
I think it should have at least two frets more. 
And for me also one or two strings more. 
Hopefully they make it in the same quality as fusion and enhanced models with stainless steel frets. 
Shape-wise I'd be more into something a little more Strandbergish/Ormsby Goliath/... but still cool to see :-D


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## cip 123 (Jun 22, 2019)

lurè said:


> Very similar to the kiesel Osiris, just a little less "rad".


It doesn't say Kiesel on it so that's actually more RAD.


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## remco mayer (Nov 12, 2019)

I play music said:


> Bridge pieces are the same as on GOC headless guitars. Apparently there finally is affordable headless hardware that works.
> I think it should have at least two frets more.
> And for me also one or two strings more.
> Hopefully they make it in the same quality as fusion and enhanced models with stainless steel frets.
> Shape-wise I'd be more into something a little more Strandbergish/Ormsby Goliath/... but still cool to see :-D


Hardware is from Apollo music parts http://www.apollomusicparts.com/ GOC have used fake low quality parts


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## Ben Pinkus (Nov 12, 2019)

I'm intruiged by these - the fusion models look good also. 

I'm debating whether to get a custom multiscale 7 for F#, so getting something cheaper as a backup in the interim may be useful too.


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## Leuka (Dec 12, 2019)

Soooo...

https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_be...66Lea_EMN8VBwor0xUVJDpx-bH7QWPbQginFXFjzKnejo
https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_be...Mcm3qc-HGewCLgxieL9aBBLM_yZ4RlJbuWBqwSP1aDvyw


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## I play music (Dec 12, 2019)

Leuka said:


> Soooo...
> 
> https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_be...66Lea_EMN8VBwor0xUVJDpx-bH7QWPbQginFXFjzKnejo
> https://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_be...Mcm3qc-HGewCLgxieL9aBBLM_yZ4RlJbuWBqwSP1aDvyw


I like that they went with the simple look for the one with maple fretboard. 
I do not like that they only put 22 frets on there .. come oon please these days everything should at least have 24 ;-)


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## Zhysick (Dec 12, 2019)

I'm selling my Fender Player Strat with Duncan JB Jr. and Little’59 pickups... 

I'm going to have a problem with my wife.


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## spudmunkey (Dec 12, 2019)

Is it weird that they don't have any sort of belly cut on the AT-TBK? Seems odd for a double-cut, and even more odd for a headless


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## I play music (Dec 12, 2019)

spudmunkey said:


> Is it weird that they don't have any sort of belly cut on the AT-TBK? Seems odd for a double-cut, and even more odd for a headless


Looks like the one with the maple fretboard is supposed to be superstrat inspired (alder body, belly cut, arm bevel...) and the AT-TBK Les Paul inspired (arch top, mahogany body, no belly cut, ...). 
If that decision is a bit weird .. I don't know.


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## spudmunkey (Dec 12, 2019)

I play music said:


> Looks like the one with the maple fretboard is supposed to be superstrat inspired (alder body, belly cut, arm bevel...) and the AT-TBK Les Paul inspired (arch top, mahogany body, no belly cut, ...).
> If that decision is a bit weird .. I don't know.


Ahh, that makes sense, I suppose. I forgot LPs don't, because my non-Gibson single-cut has a belly cut. PRSs do, too.


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