# EMG 707 vs Lundgren M7 vs Seymour Duncan Blackout 7



## AlexWadeWC (Jan 15, 2008)

Hey guys, sorry for such a big post as a noob to the board. Been playing my 7 for 4 years now though, can't seem to even get excited when I pick up a 6 anymore haha.

My question is can anyone give me a good review between the EMG 707, Lundgren M7, and Seymour Duncan Blackout 7, comparing the tonal aspects to each other? Which has more bass, which has more clarity, smooth highs, etc.

I use an EMG 707 right now, and I like it alot, but I'm starting to perfect my tone, my head and EQ and cab is all perfected, so now i'm just trying out different pick ups to put the finishing touches.

I'm a huge meshuggah fan which is why I have been reviewing lundgren, but the price tag makes me weary to jump on it when I've never heard on before. I've also heard good things about the blackouts and i'm sure they are much cheaper than the lundgrens.

Thanks so much, looking forward to the replies!


----------



## El Caco (Jan 15, 2008)

First off 

Not many people have tried the blackouts yet but those that have are very impressed, if you are pretty happy with the 707 and just looking to perfect your tone the Blackout might be what you are looking for, I'm sure Nick or Frank will be along shortly to tell you what's different about them.

The problem I see with a comparison is bias and personal taste. I like EMGs but a lot of people don't and some think anything is better.

Another thought I have is that changing pickups is not really the thing you would do if you are happy with your tone and just wish to perfect it, pickup changes can dramatically alter your tone. Perhaps if you describe what you are looking to change people can better advise you how to achieve it.


----------



## ibznorange (Jan 15, 2008)

one plus on the Blackouts, you wont have to route unlike emgs
thing is, the blackouts/emgs will give you way different, more compressed tone than the lundgrens, or most actives. i mean, they're actives, thats a part of active tone. its really a big difference. do you have much experience with passive pickups? or are you mostly just an emg guy?


----------



## Naren (Jan 15, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> one plus on the Blackouts, you wont have to route unlike emgs



That would be irrelevant to him since he already uses EMG707s.

I agree that the plus for Blackouts is that you don't have to route. I think the blackouts sound pretty much the same as EMGs. I don't really see them as sounding "better" like some people say. However, if I were to put new pickups in one of my guitars with passive pickups (like my Rg1527) and I decided to go active, I would probably get blackouts just so I didn't have to route. My RG7EXFX2 came with EMG707s, so that saved me the trouble of routing them.

Everything I've heard by Lundgren is really really nice. The only problem is that they're very very expensive. You'd have to ask yourself if it's worth the price tag.

To me the EMGs and Blackouts are pretty much the same sound and the Lundgrens are a completely different kind of sound. If you're satisfied with the EMG707s, I wouldn't change them. Changing them to Blackouts seems kind of pointless since the sound really wouldn't change much at all. Changing to Lundgrens would really change your sound, but would be quite expensive. Meshuggah uses Lundgrens and I think that Bulb uses Lundgrens on his custom eight (he uses EMGs on his Ibanez 8 and I think uses DiMarzios on his sevens - like the Evolution pickup).


----------



## 7 Dying Trees (Jan 15, 2008)

I am a recent Lundgren convert, but one word of advice: They are bright pickups. They really compliment guitars with a solid mid and bottom end that need a little more high end really well, makes them sound massive.

They are stupidly clear pickups, and are worth the price tag.

If you like your EMG's then keep them, as putting the lundgren in will be fitting a smaller pickup than the EMG into the cavity. It can be easily done though


----------



## 7 Dying Trees (Jan 15, 2008)

Out of curiousity, what guitar is it? What woods are you going to be putting it in, and what amp are you using?


----------



## Lozek (Jan 15, 2008)

From experience so far, putting a Lundgren in my S7420 (Mahogany) made it sound better than stock (not difficult) but it was still lacking. However, putting an M7 into my UV silver dot (basswood) has made it totally kill!!!!! It's powerful, clear, aggressive, pinch & touch harmonics just fly off it, but it's still got tone and is dynamic in comparison to my experiences with EMG.


----------



## Apophis (Jan 15, 2008)

give us more info about your guitars - wood etc and your rig


----------



## Matt Crooks (Jan 15, 2008)

I am a die-hard EMG user, but I do have one 7 with an M7 in it (I didn't want to carve up a custom shop Jackson for the EMG). In my experience the M7 is a lot, lot louder than the 707 (going from an 707 guitar to the M7 guitar distorted my DI). The 707 is a warmer pickup, and focuses more on the mids while the M7 seems to be more "hifi" in that it has more highs and lows.


----------



## DarkKnight369 (Jan 15, 2008)

Maybe try an 18v mod first?


----------



## ukfswmart (Jan 15, 2008)

AlexWadeWC said:


> I'm starting to perfect my tone, my head and EQ and cab is all perfected, so now i'm just trying out different pick ups to put the finishing touches



Your EQ settings will go to shit once you change your PUs; you've balanced your tone for the 707s, I gather, so if you put anything in that has even slightly different characteristics, you're going to need to reset all that and start over

What exactly is lacking from the 707? As the others have asked; what kind of tone are you after?


----------



## Crucified (Jan 15, 2008)

in my 8 string i've used lundgrens and emg's. The difference is there but not work the price tag in my opinion. i;m still considering goign back to the emgs and just selling my lundgrens. I don't get to play lou dtoo often now so i'm still holding back but so far, i wouldn't buy lundgrens again. That being said, it could also just be the fact that the 2228 isn't a great sounding guitar in the first place.


----------



## eaeolian (Jan 15, 2008)

Matt Crooks said:


> I am a die-hard EMG user, but I do have one 7 with an M7 in it (I didn't want to carve up a custom shop Jackson for the EMG). In my experience the M7 is a lot, lot louder than the 707 (going from an 707 guitar to the M7 guitar distorted my DI). The 707 is a warmer pickup, and focuses more on the mids while the M7 seems to be more "hifi" in that it has more highs and lows.



I'd agree with that, after playing the M7. It was even hotter than the 81-7! Very clear and bold, though, totally unlike the EMGs.


----------



## noodles (Jan 15, 2008)

I think the Lungren M7 absoltely destroys the EMG 707. Then again, I'm not much of a fan of EMG. There pickups always seem to have this fizzy midrange that I just can't dial out, and the cleans are sterile and lifeless. Meanwhile, the Lungren was like a nicer Duncan Custom, with a mean gut punch and screaming highs. It is a riff machine of a pickup, and is very sensitive to volume knob changes. A slight roll back sweetens it up nicely.

Now I know why they only sell them as a matched set. The middle position is one of the best tones I have ever heard. Those two pickups are absolutely engineered to be used together.


----------



## Matt Crooks (Jan 15, 2008)

noodles said:


> I think the Lungren M7 absoltely destroys the EMG 707. Then again, I'm not much of a fan of EMG. Their pickups always seem to have this fizzy midrange that I just can't dial out, and the cleans are sterile and lifeless. Meanwhile, the Lungren was like a nicer Duncan Custom, with a mean gut punch and screaming highs



I think it all comes down to what you like, as I greatly prefer the 707 to the M7. The exact things you don't like about the 707s, I do. 

Put another way, the M7 lacked the mid range crunch of the 707, and the cleans were muddy and unarticulate. The high end was brittle (much like the top on the Screamin' Demon) and the low end was over powering and out of balance.

That said, the M7 is a great pickup, just not for me, for my playing style and my rig. With the amount of low end it puts out, it could make the bass player obsolete. (hmm... maybe it's not all bad)


----------



## 7 Dying Trees (Jan 15, 2008)

Lozek said:


> From experience so far, putting a Lundgren in my S7420 (Mahogany) made it sound better than stock (not difficult) but it was still lacking. However, putting an M7 into my UV silver dot (basswood) has made it totally kill!!!!! It's powerful, clear, aggressive, pinch & touch harmonics just fly off it, but it's still got tone and is dynamic in comparison to my experiences with EMG.


I know. THe S never convinced me of the Lundgren, but the UV sounds a million times better. Really has made that guitar sing.


----------



## noodles (Jan 15, 2008)

Matt Crooks said:


> I think it all comes down to what you like, as I greatly prefer the 707 to the M7. The exact things you don't like about the 707s, I do.
> 
> Put another way, the M7 lacked the mid range crunch of the 707, and the cleans were muddy and unarticulate. The high end was brittle (much like the top on the Screamin' Demon) and the low end was over powering and out of balance.
> 
> That said, the M7 is a great pickup, just not for me, for my playing style and my rig. With the amount of low end it puts out, it could make the bass player obsolete. (hmm... maybe it's not all bad)



If anything, this also highlights the guitarists in two guitar bands to take different approaches. When I tried to use an alder body with a JB bridge pickup--my mainstay for years before Divison--I got completely lost in the mix. Mahogany and a Custom, however, lets me carve out my own space. I'm no fan of EMG, but you always blended well in the mix.


----------



## Matt Crooks (Jan 15, 2008)

noodles said:


> If anything, this also highlights the guitarists in two guitar bands to take different approaches. When I tried to use an alder body with a JB bridge pickup--my mainstay for years before Divison--I got completely lost in the mix. Mahogany and a Custom, however, lets me carve out my own space.



 In the case of the Jackson Stars, though, it could be that the guitar just didn't stack up to the USA Soloist, regardless of pickup.



noodles said:


> I'm no fan of EMG, but you always blended well in the mix.



On the CD there is no mix


----------



## noodles (Jan 15, 2008)

Matt Crooks said:


> In the case of the Jackson Stars, though, it could be that the guitar just didn't stack up to the USA Soloist, regardless of pickup.



Well, yeah... 

I'm now convinced that the JB-7 doesn't really belong in mahogany. It matches up much better with alder. The lower mids of mahogany just gave you this mushy botom end that sat right between the bass and mid knobs on my amp. Switching to the Custom-7 was the best move I ever made.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Jan 15, 2008)

Holy shit balls! I agree with Dave.


The thing is, the JB can sound SO GOOD in mahogany... 6'ers. It's just, as the pitch lowers, strings thicken, the magic just... disappears. (I always said the upper frequencies of the JB is where it shines. Makes sense.)

But the custom comes into its own on those tasty low registers.


----------



## AlexWadeWC (Jan 15, 2008)

wow thanks for all the great replies guys!

I use a cheapy Ibanez RG7321, but am hoping to which to an ESP SC-607 soon.

I play death metal (MySpace.com - Whitechapel (NEW SONGS FROM TSD UP NOW!!) - Knoxville, Tennessee - Death Metal / Hardcore / Grindcore - www.myspace.com/whitechapelmetal my band), and use two peavey 6505's and a Vader 4x12 and Vader 2x15, boosting both heads with a Maxon OD-9.

I've just always heard that the Lundgren sounds smoother and more organic compared to the 707 which is more sterile sounding to most people, and that difference is something that intrigued me. I see some people are saying the lundgren is more scooped sounding, how scooped is it? because i'm a half way mids kind of guy, i don't like using too much but i hate taking too much out too.

So from listening to my band and the riffing that I play, is the lundgren for me or should I just stay with EMG? and to the one guy that asked, yeah I'm an EMG guy, once I heard an 81 when i was 16 i haven't played a passive since.


----------



## ibznorange (Jan 15, 2008)

iirc, the lundgrens eq curve is actually very paf like.

as far as switching over, id ask what do you want to do with your tone? emgs are really compressed compared to passives. 

btw welcome man, you have some pretty big fans on here, from what i've seen


----------



## sakeido (Jan 15, 2008)

I've owned all three. The only reason I ever got the Lundgren though, was because it was supposedly a passive sized and sounding version of an EMG and I didn't want to route my S7320 out. 

It is truly a phenomenal pickup but the bang for your buck isn't there. Now that the Blackouts are finally out, I would get those instead. It has the same kind of balanced tone EMGs do, except with more bass, more highs, less feedback, and less hum. They also have a sharper attack than EMGs - almost as good as Lundgrens do. The Blackout Bridge is significantly hotter than the EMG 81 and I believe is actually hotter than the M7, but I don't own the M7 anymore to A/B them. The M7 had an mid scooped sound that is more pronounced than it is with an EMG, but it paired up very nicely with my Mark IV so I could get one hell of a crushing tone out of it. I would definitely not say it sounds smoother or more organic than an EMG. I thought it was harsher and more abrasive, in a nice grinding kind of way.

If you get the SC-607, I would definitely recommend you slap a Blackout set in there. The Lundgrens, now that the Blackouts are out, just cost too much to really be competitive. Blackouts would complement the 6505 better with the extra mids and the Vader 2x15 would be thundering with the extra bass.


----------



## noodles (Jan 15, 2008)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Holy shit balls! I agree with Dave.



Now don't go thinking we're ka-tet or something. 



> The thing is, the JB can sound SO GOOD in mahogany... 6'ers. It's just, as the pitch lowers, strings thicken, the magic just... disappears. (I always said the upper frequencies of the JB is where it shines. Makes sense.)



Well, the biggets problem is the wind has changed since the 8s, and the overly hot JB-7. Wolfe rewound Mike's to the same specs as the early ones, and it sounds loads better. The JB is never going to give you that gut punch, but it did tighten the low B up. It sings a lot nicer, too. My guess is that Duncan has slowly added more windings over the years, since the originials are not high output by today's standards. I also think that they kept the same number of windings for the JB-7, which means a whole lot more wire length compared to the sixer. That means more output, more highs, and a crumbling of the already moderate bass response.



> But the custom comes into its own on those tasty low registers.



Especially with an alnico 5 swap. It really is the best of both the JB and Custom: thunderous lows, singing highs, growly mids, and no ceramic upper mid fizz.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Jan 15, 2008)

I think SD Custom, I think GUN-CHUNK! 

Love that. I'd love to hear one with Alnico 8, since it's _such_ a choice blend of the best of both A5 and ceramic. Same way you say with A5 the Custom gets that JB/Custom best-of, the A8 magnet does with alinico/ceramic.


----------



## AlexWadeWC (Jan 15, 2008)

sakeido said:


> I've owned all three. The only reason I ever got the Lundgren though, was because it was supposedly a passive sized and sounding version of an EMG and I didn't want to route my S7320 out.
> 
> It is truly a phenomenal pickup but the bang for your buck isn't there. Now that the Blackouts are finally out, I would get those instead. It has the same kind of balanced tone EMGs do, except with more bass, more highs, less feedback, and less hum. They also have a sharper attack than EMGs - almost as good as Lundgrens do. The Blackout Bridge is significantly hotter than the EMG 81 and I believe is actually hotter than the M7, but I don't own the M7 anymore to A/B them. The M7 had an mid scooped sound that is more pronounced than it is with an EMG, but it paired up very nicely with my Mark IV so I could get one hell of a crushing tone out of it. I would definitely not say it sounds smoother or more organic than an EMG. I thought it was harsher and more abrasive, in a nice grinding kind of way.
> 
> If you get the SC-607, I would definitely recommend you slap a Blackout set in there. The Lundgrens, now that the Blackouts are out, just cost too much to really be competitive. Blackouts would complement the 6505 better with the extra mids and the Vader 2x15 would be thundering with the extra bass.



This is what i've been looking for... Thanks so much man!  

Anyone else have the same opinion about the blackouts to the EMG? More bass?


----------



## sakeido (Jan 15, 2008)

A guy named Zimbloth on this forum would say the same. He is probably a bigger advocate than me, since he has them in more guitars including a custom 7 string while I just have them in my 6 string SLS. 
Here are some threads of his where he praises his blackouts.
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/st...ies-two-new-rico-jr-customs-zillion-pics.html

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/pi...l-tech/45213-success-blackout-7s-arrived.html

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...imbloth-s-band-revealed-blackout-content.html 
Lots of clips in the last one there


----------



## Austin (Jan 15, 2008)

hey welcome to the board man, I think your band's awesome... my 2cents is to try the 18 volt mod first since it's so cheap and easy. It makes the PUs considerably less compressed and less electronic-sounding. I was disappointed with the 707s at 9 volts but enjoy them now at 18v, although I still prefer passives sometimes. For the record I've never played a M7 or blackout. good luck and let us know how it goes if you swap out the pups. cheers


----------



## xXcondemnedXx (Jan 15, 2008)

just a question, could you route out your guitar for EMG's using sand(brazen)paper?


----------



## Stitch (Jan 15, 2008)

xXcondemnedXx said:


> just a question, could you route out your guitar for EMG's using sand(brazen)paper?



Yes. Could you get to the airport if you could only make right turns?


----------



## ibznorange (Jan 15, 2008)

unfortunately, no. my airport has a single (civilian access) road to it at the end, and it has a left turn in it 

it would be doable dude, but it will take hours, and hours, and hours of sanding. honestly, you might be better off with a chisel and a razor blade, and just moving carefully and slowly


----------



## xXcondemnedXx (Jan 15, 2008)

i cant move carefully and slowly  
im better off using sandpaper. coz im not gonna pay 120 bucks to get it routed wen ive got stuff that i can use for routing


----------



## Stitch (Jan 15, 2008)

...so you have a router? You know, for routing?


----------



## xXcondemnedXx (Jan 15, 2008)

no i have sandpaper


----------



## Stitch (Jan 15, 2008)

Yeah. That really wont get the job done. Get a dremel at the very least.


----------



## xXcondemnedXx (Jan 15, 2008)

nah, the only reason id get one is for this routing job, so i might as well just geta tech to do it, coz i suck at it too.

thanks though


----------



## Edroz (Jan 15, 2008)

maybe to boost sales, EMG can have a special promotional offer that includes a Dremel 50% off coupon!


----------



## ibznorange (Jan 15, 2008)




----------



## Jongpil Yun (Jan 15, 2008)

I'd go with the Lundgrens. Just as a quick recap I've had:

1) Lundgren M7 (B) + DiMarzio Blaze (N)
2) DiMarzio Evo (B) + DiMarzio Blaze (N)
3) Stock RG1527 pickups

I've also had quite a bit of time playing

1) EMG 81-7 and 707s in a 7620
2) SD JB + Jazz in a 1527
3) DiMarzio TZ7 (B) + DiMarzio Air Norton (N)

In my opinion the Lundgrens were the best sounding out of all of them, and if I had to rank them, I'd say M7 -> Evo -> 81-7 for the bridge and Air Norton -> Jazz -> Blaze for the neck.

The sound of the M7 bridge through a Dual Rectifier is really something else. It's the kind of sound that makes me sub-consciously clench my jaw and tighten my chest. In A#, it sounds like Cerberus growling at you. You can get the really scratchy djent sound but in my opinion it's even better at low, single, sustained notes. It sounds like DJgrrrrrrrrrr Grrrrrrrrrr. God I love that shit.


----------



## Capitaine Sifou (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm Swedish and I want to tell you all that the Swedish crown is high,that's why a Lundgren is expensive, add to it the poor Dollar value. Lundgren is just a good passive pickup but I don't think it's worth the price tag for you Americans/Canadians, passive pickups sound more organic to me which is perfect for cleaner sounds. EMG are really great for more compressed sounds, more robot less human, which is perfect in some situations. Don't remember to play good as well, sound is really secondary when u know how to play your instrument. Don't loose focus


----------



## Hubbas (Nov 2, 2009)

I think emgs are pretty good but they dont sound as good as an m7, actually the price on an m7 is a liiiittle bit lower now!


----------



## george galatis (Nov 6, 2009)

dynamics =
M7 > 707
$$$$$ =
M7 < 707


----------



## mattofvengeance (Nov 6, 2009)

C'mon guise, look at the date. I'm pretty sure Alex has it figured out by now.


----------



## george galatis (Nov 6, 2009)

mattofvengeance said:


> C'mon guise, look at the date. I'm pretty sure Alex has it figured out by now.



-_- fook yeah yourrrrrright


----------



## mattofvengeance (Nov 6, 2009)

It's all good dude, just remember


----------



## budiofortuner (Nov 22, 2009)

s7eve said:


> First off
> 
> The problem I see with a comparison is bias and personal taste. I like EMGs but a lot of people don't and some think anything is better.




Yeah.. i like this sentences. better if we looking for personal taste. i think that's the answer

But i choose EMG 707


----------

