# Midi / Roland GK-3 on a 7 string?



## SnowfaLL (Apr 19, 2008)

I hate to keep bringing up the Midi pickup topic, but it still interests me for the future..

Heres what im curious about.. If I was to get a GK-3 (right here Roland U.S. - GK-3: Divided Pickup ) And put that on a 7 string, lining it up with the normal 6 strings, ignoring the low B string, Would that make any issues for tracking? My plan, is to have midi capabilities on the top 6 strings (cause thats the only way it tracks correctly) but still have it as a functional normal guitar when not using midi, which I only want to play 7s.

I do realize its impossible to track 7 strings at a time, and im fine with that, I dont want to track the low B, I just want the normal 6 string tracking to work, then when I turn midi off, to be able to play a 7 still. 

So I guess if anyone knows if having that B string there will do any sort of tampering to the tracking, like if I hit it by accident lets say, or weither just being where it is, if it'll vibrate and cause a ruckus or whatever.. Hmmm. Anyone know about this?? I wanna know so bad, I might order the GK-3 right now, test it on my 7 string (using double sided tape) then if it works, go ahead and order up the 7 string I was planning on installing it on, but if it doesnt work, keeping it for at least a 6 string, cause uh I think either way, im gonna get a Midi guitar. I thinks.

Any help is appreciated, thanks abunch.


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## noodles (Apr 19, 2008)

The Roland divided pickup has extremely weak magnets, and set so close to the bridge, there is barely any string vibration. The low B is not going to effect any of the other strings in the slightest.


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 19, 2008)

Fun.

So by weak magnets, you mean in terms of actual magnetic pull (in comparison to say, pickups), Not weak as in, shitty in terms of MIDI pickups? What are your opinion of the tracking from Roland's GK's? Are they sufficient enough?


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## noodles (Apr 19, 2008)

Yes, weak as in terms of magnetic pull. They don't bleed over to the strings next to them.

Tracking isn't bad, but it there is still a lag on really fast runs.


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## plusyear (Apr 20, 2008)

also the gk-3 is hexaphonic which means each magnet tracks only the string above


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## Mr. S (Apr 20, 2008)

i really would quite like to get one of these too ive played briefly with one and it was great fun, its just such a pity they dont make one for seven strings... darn niche market


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## bgmsmg (Apr 20, 2008)

You should have no problem with the Gk-3. 
What unit are you going to use? Roland Gi-20, Gr-20 or Axon Ax100 , Ax-50?

Brian
GuitarHelper.net/Midi,13 pin interfaces


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 20, 2008)

I dunno which unit I would use, I have yet to decide that.. Hopefuly whatever is best tracking, but not overly expensive in comparison to the others.

I want the GK-3 or the Axon pickup because I wanna put it on a guitar without actually doing any physical mods to the guitar (drilling holes/etc) so incase I dont like it, I can remove it. Thats the plan anyways.

What module unit do you suggest? I heard the Axon Ax100 blows away the Roland units.. but is abit more money. Anyone have experiance with it?

PS. Im looking mainly for these sounds... Cello, Violin, Tenor and Sop sax, Trumpet. Mainly Trumpet and Cello are most important, as my band has like two songs that have trumpet/cello solos, yet we dont have a celloist or trumpetier, but we do have a Tenor sax and Flute, so those arent as important. But generally I want something that can replicate other instruments good.


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## Justin Bailey (Apr 20, 2008)

ghost piezos. Thats all I gotta say.


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 20, 2008)

ghost piezo's would require alot more money, esp for a 7 string form, which wont work anyways since midi technology so far only tracks 6 strings (unless you make the B and E string as one, whch I dont plan on doing) soo.. not for me

I like the idea if I dont like it, I can remove the GK-3 and still have my normal kick ass guitar.


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## frank falbo (Apr 20, 2008)

I've also heard the Axon unit beats the Roland, but I haven't tried one myself. We just designed a new Midi pickup for them, which should be shipping in a month or so if you can wait that long. I'm hoping once they start shipping, maybe they'll send a sample our way or something so I can poke around with it.  

The magnets aren't "weak" in reality. They're actually extremely strong ND's, they're just really small. Plus the two coil "mini rails" configuration makes the magnetic field highly concentrated. I would assume you could diminish or eliminate any cross-tracking from the low B by reducing the sensitivity of the low E string within your device. But in all reality you have no greater chance of mistriggering with the low B than you do any other string skipping over to a neighboring string's pickup, aside from the fact that the B is the largest string, and the most magnetically active.


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 21, 2008)

Thanks Frank,

I guess I can afford to wait a month or two, to see if theres something new coming. Is this from Axon, or from your company (which is??)


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## dpm (Apr 21, 2008)

Frank is from Seymour Duncan 

I haven't tried out the Axon yet, but out of the Roland gear I've tried the GR20 tracked best, and was basically flawless in that regard during the short test I had. It tracked quarter tone bends and stuff like that without issue, and didn't have any immediately apparent lag. But it's a limited unit in terms of sounds and programming. To my knowledge Roland's synth units trigger their built in sounds with very minimal processing. The MIDI output requires more processing and lag may become more evident. I've had a good trial of a GI10, and it seemed fine, with the tiniest of latency. I assume the GI20 is better. The new VG99 is pretty spectacular and has built in MIDI conversion, but it's pricey.

I'm really curious about the new stuff Frank mentioned. Is there any word of a new Axon synth/converter too?


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 21, 2008)

isnt there already a duncan one out? associated with Axon?


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## frank falbo (Apr 22, 2008)

Yeah it has been released, it's just not shipping yet. It's a Terratec (axon) product, we just designed the pickup for them.


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## SnowfaLL (Apr 24, 2008)

is it the one that says Duncan Designed under it?? I think thats the one I saw a picture of.


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## jazzsinger (Jun 4, 2008)

I just installed an interal Roland pickup into my DeArmond seven string (three bass strings, four guitar strings) and it works pretty well. The tracking is not as good as the RMC piezo system on my Godin, but is acceptable for live Rock and Roll.


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## Tymon (Jun 4, 2008)

I've owned all big guitar synths (roland gr33, axon, yamaha) and always got fed up by its tracking issues. A device I really love is Roland's VG-88 (or VG-8 and VG-99 for that matter). If you're unfamiliar with the concept: it also uses the GK pickup but it doesn't translate the audio to MIDI, instead it uses the 6 independent audio signals (each string) to process the sound. It gives you a bunch of synthy sounds but without any tracking issues and (very important to me) it keeps your playing nuances intact. Of course it doesn't have as many sounds as a "real" synth coud give you, but for me this is definitely worth the penalty!


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## jazzsinger (Jun 4, 2008)

I had a friend with the VG-88. It is a very nice guitar processor that does modeling of all kinds and even allows for alternative tunings, but like you said, it's not really a synth. I suppose one could say it's almost six different guitar processors in one. I would've bought one a few years ago if I could've found a rack mount version to control via my GR 30. Instead I bought a couple of Boss VF-1's (now gone). But even though I use a guitar synth, I now prefer a small tube amp with few effects for my "real" guitar sound with the synth mostly in the background. Part of the reason I used strings, organs, pads in the background was because of tracking problems on the old guitar my internal Roland pickup was in. I could never get the pickup close enough to the saddles because of the way the bridge was made. Now that it's on my seven string guitar it seems to track a bit better so I'm trying more solo piano sounds.


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## Stan P (Sep 10, 2008)

RMC does a system that allows you to have 7-tring piezo out in combination with 6-string MIDI out. It is also possible to have 7 and 8 string MIDI, but that requires a 2-preamp -> 2-converter setup. There are apparently tap guitar players that do it.


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## brainphreak (Nov 30, 2009)

I just joined here to help on the topic of Midi pickups in a 7 string. I have been using the GR-20 with my S7420 Ibanez 7 string for a couple years now. It works pretty awesome if you ask me, I have no real tracking issues, on occassion there is a small issue, but this doesnt make much difference in the live setting, if you tweak the sensitivity settings on the pedal, you can get it to the point that nobody knows the diff. I am my bands 7 string guitarist and I play the keyboards/synth/piano at the same time. In fact I can do dual parts without much effort by fading the piano in and out during riffs. This allows the guitar to play a normal riff, but for example the piano only accents the end of the riff when I hit the pedal momentarily. Takes a little practice, but well worth it. Even leaving a light atmospheric synth on during an entire song works well as it is often drowned out by distorted heavy guitar but gives it a slight bit of atmosphere, then when I switch to clean channel, the synth becomes more prominant and it sounds like it just came in and took focus, but it has been there all along. Tons of little tricks, and I love going into a video game 8 bit midi sound and playing chromatics like a computer (like buckethead) then instantly can go into smooth guitar... 

Now I plan to add one to my 8 string too.. I have wondered about a way of using 2 6 string piclups to track all 8 strings, not sure if transposing is possible etc. though, so Ill be looking into that next.

Regardless I want to buy another 7 string and pickup just so I have a backup guitar because its a very signature sound now, and with a normal guitar we lose all synth and it sounds much less experimental and more rockin'.

S T R A N G L I N G M A R I L Y N - O f f i c i a l   H o m e p a g e


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## synrgy (Nov 30, 2009)

brainphreak said:


> Now I plan to add one to my 8 string too.. I have wondered about a way of using 2 6 string piclups to track all 8 strings, not sure if transposing is possible etc. though, so Ill be looking into that next.



Shotgunn's got your back:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/94759-midi-piezo-rg-2228-picstory.html

I'm personally not at all impressed with my GK-3. I've tried it on every guitar I own, (6's and 7's) and the results are similarly flat across the board. I haven't finished the install of the GHOST MIDI kit, but I'm hoping it will track a LOT more reliably.


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## Zsharp (Feb 10, 2011)

does the pickup still work if you turn it upside-down? because i have thoguht about adding a gk3 to a seven string however i notice the screw at the top of the pickup would get in the way of the seventh string (notice the screw in this picture). Has anyone tried this?


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## synrgy (Feb 10, 2011)

Zsharp said:


> does the pickup still work if you turn it upside-down? because i have thoguht about adding a gk3 to a seven string however i notice the screw at the top of the pickup would get in the way of the seventh string (notice the screw in this picture). Has anyone tried this?



I've tried it both ways. Both work more or less equally in terms of tracking, though when it's in that position, the cord coming out of it may get in the way of one's pick hand depending on their physical style.

Since this thread was going, I did finish installing the GraphTech system in another guitar, and it tracks _considerably_ better than the GK-3. I've been using the bare-bones Roland GI-20 as the host unit in all cases, if that makes a difference to anyone.


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## Zsharp (Feb 10, 2011)

how do they hold up to perspiration? i just sold my godin lgxt becuase the sweat from my hand caused corrosion under the rmc saddles making them not track at all, i know the gk3 has held up well but id like to hear your thoughts


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 8, 2012)

Sorry to pull an old thread back from the dead.. but, I have an LTD ESP H-207 and wanted to get the GR-55 and GK-3. Has anyone installed the GK-3 on a 7 string like this? It has a fixed bridge and through back stringing. I've seen it set up on fixed bridges and see that it comes with the mounting bracket for that, but I'm concerned it may not line up correctly with the strings.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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## synrgy (Mar 8, 2012)

It should work just as well as it would on any other guitar. I've used it on my 7420 and 7321 and had equal results.

Still, having now used both extensively, I would strongly advise anyone to save up the extra $150-ish and go for the Graph Tech system rather than the GK-3.


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 8, 2012)

My concern about it was mainly getting it and it not fitting correctly.. does it need a different bracket or is everything it needs there? Do I have to offset it myself or does it just fit the right way on it's own? Sorry to keep asking.. I just want to be sure before I make the purchase.

The GK-3 is only an extra $100 when buying it with the GR-55, so i'll get that initially and maybe upgrade to the other later. I took a look at the Graph Tech one and wouldn't even know where to start with connecting that thing. lol


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## steve1 (Mar 8, 2012)

I used a gk-2a on a schecter blackjack c-7 with no problems. Not sure if the gk-3 is any different in the way you mount it, I just used the adhesive strips that came with the pickup to mount the gk-2a to the right height and placement. I didn't fancy hard mounting it, and the adhesive strips worked well.


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## noUser01 (Mar 8, 2012)

Sounds to me like it would work, though let us know if it does. I'd love to try it.


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## synrgy (Mar 9, 2012)

It installs with either adhesive strips (with several different thicknesses to suit a variety of set ups) or via 2 screws, depending on the instrument and/or one's preferences.

I've used it with a wraparound, a tune-o-matic, a floating trem, and the 'strat style' fixed bridge that's on the 7321. Worked equally with each.


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## Guitarwiz2k (Mar 9, 2012)

I have mine on two 8 strings and one 7 string guitar and they work just fine; I have rewired them all in reverse so they track as intended for 6 string. I find it unnecessary to have the lower B and F# strings for my personal playing style. Aside from this, they work like they were on any 6 string guitar. Screwed down the pickup on all the guitars, but velcro mounted the controller on the 8 strings, and added the extra screw for the 7 string.

Examples of how I use the GK-2A. The GK-3 tracks just about the same, with the exception that the GK-3 has a standard guitar jack for the guitar out. The GK-2A has a mini jack, but the tracking is the same. I've since sold the GK-3 and picked up a GK-2A to standardize all my guitars for parts.

Check it out here: GK-2A Pickup Mounted on a 7-String and 8-String Guitars. 

Cheers...


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## SirMyghin (Mar 9, 2012)

synrgy said:


> It should work just as well as it would on any other guitar. I've used it on my 7420 and 7321 and had equal results.
> 
> Still, having now used both extensively, I would strongly advise anyone to save up the extra $150-ish and go for the Graph Tech system rather than the GK-3.



You probably don't want to use piezo saddles with a GR-55, it tends to have the subsonic frequencies cause a lot of trouble. It also tracks better with the GK-3 overall in this case, or so I have heard. I know a few folks who had to switch to GK-3 from undersaddle due to this issue though. IIRC someone has made a fix board (circuit board add on), which is effectively just a filter for these frequencies, but otherwise vanilla might cause some trouble.


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 10, 2012)

I actually decided on getting the VG-99 instead.. I found one on eBay for $750, which is less than it would cost me for the GR-55.... so.. Yeah.. I get the modeling AND the midi tracking I wanted. I'll just connect to my computer for midi for now and get something a little more mobile later. I think I was looking at the midi as more of a perk than anything. $1,500 for the VG-99 was like a kick in the nuts. lol

I'd rather not drill into this guitar if I don't have to. Someone mentioned double sided tape working? or was that just to test placement.. I would rather just be able to throw this on my 6-string Ibanez, but.. the floating trem is a nightmare and I was quickly over that. Trying to do a proper intonation job is seriously impossible, even with the Tremol-no I put on it.

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to making permanent modifications.


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 13, 2012)

Sorry to double post, but does anyone have any definitive way they mounted this to theirs. I already have the VG-99 on it's way and I want to be sure I can get this GK-3 on mine when the time comes.

I see a lot of "I did it", but i'm not quite clear on how it was done. I really don't want to be a pain to everyone... but I'm afraid to spend money on something that will either be worthless or i'll end up breaking trying to figure it out.

I'm not sure who's image this is, I did a google search for my exact guitar and it came from this forum.. lol This is the exact model. LTD H-207 . Sorry to whoever's image this is.


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## steve1 (Mar 13, 2012)

It comes with adhesive strips of varying thicknesses which you build up to the correct height for mounting the pick up. You shouldn't have any problems.


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 14, 2012)

That answer offically makes you awesome in my book. Lol I just hope that mine comes with that since you said you had the GK-2a, if I remember right. I don't get it... I got a tracking number it says my VG-99 made is cross state lines in a day and is in my state as of today.. yet I won't receive it till Monday.. lol crossing my fingers this works out and I don't have to buy another guitar just for this to work properly... =\


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 14, 2012)

just spoke with a tech at guitar center... said he'd charge like $35 to pretty cut out a piece of wood to place between some double sided tape and drill into it(and I'm assuming the guitar itself) so it'd act pretty much like a normal spring loaded pickup to adjust height.. even though I pretty much put the words in his mouth for that whole sales pitch of am idea..

Think its worth it or should I make an attempt at this myself? I don't really want to drill into the guitar, but that's all I can come up with. :: go ahead.. smack me if I, stupid.. lol ::


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## steve1 (Mar 14, 2012)

Pretty sure he means drill the piece of wood, mount the pickup to it, and stick the block of wood to the guitar using tape. You can do that yourself  the pickup comes with screws and springs.


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 14, 2012)

no. He very specifically mentioned drilling into the guitar itself. Lol seemed a little odd to me too. I just don't really have any tools outside of some screw drivers. I wouldn't know how to cut a block of wood correctly nor do I have the tools to do it. =\


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## steve1 (Mar 14, 2012)

Just use the adhesive strips to mount it  once you build them up to the right height there shouldn't be any need to adjust it ever again.

If for any reason all fails and you take it to a tech, make it clear that you don't want holes drilled in your guitar. If a tech can't work out how to do that he doesn't deserve your money.


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 14, 2012)

So.. I just bought the pickup and left. You're right. If I can't manage it myself, I can always go back to the tech later.

OK.. so.. are you trying to say to just use multiple strips of the adhesive tape stacked? That doesn't sound like it'd be stable, but I'm sure I misinterpreted Lmao.. I'm not a child, but in this case.. you're going to have to treat me like one. Lol Luckily I won't be too antsy over this since I won't have my VG-99 get here till monday. Lol

Maybe there is a way I can use the solid spacers to stack up bit? lol... hmm...


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## steve1 (Mar 15, 2012)

Yeah, sorry, stack the solid spacers. That's what I meant by adhesive strips. I think they have an adhesive underside, either that or you stick them together with the supplied double sided strips.


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 15, 2012)

Ok.... so... Hopefully, I did this right. lol I think it might be a tad lower than the 1mm they said it should be... but the screw was already rattling against the low B string as it is... I did everything except for actually placing it on the body. I want to wait for my VG-99 to come in so I can move it around a little and test placement before settling on a spot. Really crossing my fingers that this works out. I've been jizzing over the VG-99 for years. It'd really suck if I screwed this up... lol


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## TheClassicalGod (Mar 23, 2012)

Got the VG-99 Monday. It didn't come with the cable to connect to pickup.. Went to guitar center, they didn't have it. I went to Sam Ash(and felt like I was cheating on GC by doing so...lol)... never again will I go to that Sam Ash. EVER! I'm usually the understanding type of guy since I've had many different jobs, but that had to be THE most incompetent staff I've ever come across. 

The guitar/Accessories guys had zero knowledge of the Roland gear when it was clearly out in the open and on display. The guy sent me over to Pro Audio for the cable. I was fine with that at first. Then the Pro Audio guy said he had no idea either. Understandable, I guess... not his department. I go back to Guitars and tell him I found the cable, but it's attached to the demo units and it's tied to the rack, and simply asked if he could follow me over to it and see if he recognized it. Not only did he not do that or even check their system to see if they had it, he just gave me a face like I had three heads and asked if I talked to the Pro Audio guy again... I just walked out. I was done at that point.. lol

Joke is on them, though. That cable is like $70 for the 15' and $80 for the 30'... I went home and found an 20' aftermarket cable with latching ends on eBay. Total came to $25 only because I asked for expedited shipping to get it by the end of the week. I'd say that's a win for me.

I got home from work yesterday and the cable had gotten here. I played pretty much 5 hours straight. I love this thing already. So much can be done. I'm having a bit of trouble with sensitivity settings though. Lower notes are great(not quite enough sustain for my taste, trying to use the d-beam for dives and the note stops most times.), but higher notes sound a little lacking.. but if I raise the sensitivity, then some of the patches distort. Mainly the acoustic stuff. That said, i'm afraid to even consider trying the midi functions. lol.. 

Before I ramble on for too long... thank you for your help and convincing me it was doable. I probably wouldn't have bought this stuff otherwise. So glad I did.. lol


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