# 8 string first build



## muffinbutton (Apr 4, 2013)

So even though this is my first build, I decided to go with an 8 string. 
Specs:
Neck through
Maple neck and body
Cherry Fretboard
Hipshot bridge
28" scale
I'm poor so I'm just getting a friend's stock Ibanez pickups from his RGA8
Schaller locking tuners

Am I forgetting anything? I'll post pics of what I have later cuz I have no idea where the camera is in my house.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 4, 2013)

I need another piece for the other side of the body.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 4, 2013)

I don't know whether to go with the cherry natural or the stain (red mahogany). The neck piece up against the fridge is 4 feet long.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 4, 2013)

Do you have access to all the tools you'll need?


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## muffinbutton (Apr 4, 2013)

Most of the non guitar specific stuff yeah. The other stuff like fret files, I'll get to when I get that far. I'm going to be filling out a job application as soon as break is over so I can have my career and finance teacher help.


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## scherzo1928 (Apr 4, 2013)

Best of luck!


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## muffinbutton (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks! Will be including plenty of sawdust and food later on.


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## skeels (Apr 4, 2013)

I like where this is headed. Well, in a guitar-oriented direction... Imagine that.

Yay DIY! Have fun and post pictures!


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## muffinbutton (Apr 5, 2013)

Haha. Thanks and I'll post plenty of pictures!


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## Necromagnon (Apr 5, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> So even though this is my first build, I decided to go with an 8 string.


There's no relation between those. Look at how many started with an 8 strings as 1st attempt and succeed and how many failed with a fender of gibson copy. 
Do whatever you like, it's all the same, but the pride when you finish it is clearly different.

Enjoy your trip into wood dust.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 5, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> There's no relation between those. Look at how many started with an 8 strings as 1st attempt and succeed and how many failed with a fender of gibson copy.
> Do whatever you like, it's all the same, but the pride when you finish it is clearly different.
> 
> Enjoy your trip into wood dust.



Yep, that's pretty much why I'm doing it. Thanks. Got the other piece of wood for the body today.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 5, 2013)




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## muffinbutton (Apr 5, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


>




 I start erecting my build tomorrow. I should also have my truss rod tomorrow.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 5, 2013)

Oh, does anyone know if a 40oz bottle of elmers wood glue will be enough for the guitar?


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## AwDeOh (Apr 5, 2013)

Definitely.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 5, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


>



I used to watch BBT, but those false laughs give me murder tendencies...


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## muffinbutton (Apr 5, 2013)

Cool. I'll pick some up before I start tomorrow.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 6, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> Cool. I'll pick some up before I start tomorrow.



Thought about using Titebond?


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## muffinbutton (Apr 6, 2013)

I'll look for it. depends on what they have at the store.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 6, 2013)

You may not be able to find titebond in a general store. I don't in the Us, maybe it's possible, but you'll find more likely those on internet websites. Also, you can use many different glues, there's some names going around here (gorilla and titebond are the 2 I've in mind).


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## muffinbutton (Apr 6, 2013)

The guy I've been talking to suggested elmers or titebond.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 6, 2013)

Didn't get much done. But, progress pics anyway. 

Cut the piece for the neck. (this is pretty much the only progress I made)






Also I got the other piece for the body. 






























Came home and saw this on the table. Pretty big box. (sorry I just used a knife to open it)





Hmmm..





That box was a bit overkill.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 7, 2013)

So instead of a tone and volume knob, I decided I'm just going to wire it 
pickups>3 way switch>killswitch>jack (that might be backwards)
I'm looking at 2 way switches from home depot, valu, radioshack and was wondering what the amps and volts on the switches mean and if they matter for what I'm doing. Anybody got any ideas?


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## AwDeOh (Apr 7, 2013)

I *think*, if you're using passive pickups, it shouldn't matter - it just needs to be wired up correctly to break the connection at 'Off'. Could be wrong though.

I was looking into a similar arrangement a while back, with a single bridge pickup going to the jack, Neutrik Silent Plug to avoid the pop on plugging in, and using tuner pedal to silence the guitar. A killswitch will do the same thing. The only thing to note is that you'll get a slightly brighter tone from the pickups without volume/tone pots in the chain.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 7, 2013)

So I've been told, and yes the pickups are passive. so I can just get whatever is cheapest?


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## CD1221 (Apr 7, 2013)

You can... But should you?

Go for reputable brands, the last thing you want is the switch failing or going intermittent on you because you skimped a couple of $$$.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 7, 2013)

If that happens, I'll just get a different switch and re wire it. Do you know any reputable brands that make 2 way toggle switches?


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## muffinbutton (Apr 8, 2013)

So no pics today, everything got planed and a friend is taking it somewhere to get it to thickness. Oh and it turns out my cherry is mahogany. anybody have any experience with that as a fretboard?


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## AwDeOh (Apr 8, 2013)

It's generally considered too soft for a fret board.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 8, 2013)

shit. Anything I can do about that? Other than get a different fretboard?


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## AwDeOh (Apr 8, 2013)

Not really. Whoever sold you mahogany as cherry may possibly suffer from NBPE, go ask for a cherry board or your money back.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 8, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Not really. Whoever sold you mahogany as cherry may possibly suffer from NBPE, go ask for a cherry board or your money back.



Didn't buy it. My dad and I took apart somebody's office and that was the molding. Would black walnut work? I can get that too. Or I could get some of this if anyone has any experience with it. http://www.homedepot.com/p/PC-Produ...r-Wood-Hardener-164440/100649629#.UWM4DqLqnD4


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## AwDeOh (Apr 8, 2013)

I haven't got any experience with walnut, some googling suggests some like it, others don't. What about using the maple you've already got? Tried and true..

Some inspiration: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu.../218790-new-build-hent-one-piece-7string.html


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## BusinessMan (Apr 8, 2013)

I am undertaking my very first custom. This is through a friend of mine. Since I love the ibanez m8m so much, I told him to make me one. The only difference are the woods and pickups. Gonna be made of mahogany (my fave wood) and a mahogany neck thru with an ebony board with 24 frets. Only two months away! Ya! Just a quick question. Since its an 8 string model, should put maple for the fret board? To keep the sound nice and crisp? Anyway, its gonna be (sic)


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## muffinbutton (Apr 8, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> I haven't got any experience with walnut, some googling suggests some like it, others don't. What about using the maple you've already got? Tried and true..
> 
> Some inspiration: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu.../218790-new-build-hent-one-piece-7string.html



I don't like the look of maple boards much. Or the idea of having the WHOLE guitar one type of wood.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 8, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> I don't like the look of maple boards much. Or the idea of having the WHOLE guitar one type of wood.



No worries. Best option might be to get a fretboard blank, it'll be easier to get a nice piece that you like the look of.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 8, 2013)

The thing is, I don't have a job or anything. I had the mahogany already, and I can get the walnut for free. Actually, somebody offered to send me a piece of cherry already slotted. so I'll just use that, and do something else with the mahogany. maybe a stripe down the center or something.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 8, 2013)

I'm really just thinking of 'what if', down the road. Walnut may work just fine, all I'd suggest is that you do as much reading on it as you can, there's plenty of build threads on the net that talk about it.

I'd just hate to see you build a guitar you love the shit out of, only to have the fretboard cause problems, y'know? That said, someone else here may have experience with walnut.

*looking in MaxOfMetal's general direction*


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## muffinbutton (Apr 8, 2013)

haha, I sent a message to Scherzo about walnut board, if he says it's good, I trust him and I'll use it for my next build. I'll love it and be proud either way when it's done.


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## ElRay (Apr 8, 2013)

Nice start. 

I've added the member built tag.

Please don't for get to post over here: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...1-guitars-built-members-ss-org-pic-heavy.html when she's done!

Ray


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## muffinbutton (Apr 8, 2013)

I won't!


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## Necromagnon (Apr 9, 2013)

Walnut works for fb, no problem. And I've in fact serious suspicion about cherry. Fruit-tree are generally very tender, so I'd definitely never used one for a fretboard.
Also, fruit-tree are subject to move, a lot. So be carefull about that. But cherry (and many others, like pear-tree) are used in luthiery for hundreds of years.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 9, 2013)

^ That settles that then 

Muffin, are you thinking about doing an inlay, or leaving the FB blank?


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## muffinbutton (Apr 9, 2013)

For the inlay I was thinking of using some of the scrap maple and doing diamonds and having a big spade for the 12th-15th. you can sort of see my shitty spade in the picture with the drawing on the wood.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 9, 2013)

Nice, wood on wood inlay can look really great in an understated kinda way. Maple on walnut should work well.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 9, 2013)

How about actual cherry? Someone offered to send me a cherry board instead and slot it for me. So I'll use the walnut for something else like another build later.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 11, 2013)

So my dad said we can probably go out and get a router in the next few days. Any suggestions? Preferably under $100.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 11, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> So my dad said we can probably go out and get a router in the next few days. Any suggestions? Preferably under $100.


I don't know what is available in your area. I own a black & decker, and I don't remember who here got the same (newer version, btw), and it's really great. Not the high competition ones, but it's much preferable to invest more on bits and less on router than the contrary.
I think if you go for a router that is not 20$, you should be ok.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 11, 2013)

I live in Buffalo, New York. Got a link to any specific model?


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## AwDeOh (Apr 13, 2013)

That was me I think, Necro.



Black & Decker KE900EKA

It looks like they're also bringing out a 1/2" shank model, which I think I'll get as well when it's available in NZ.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 13, 2013)

Haha how bout that!? After swearing at the guy in the video saying "IT DOESN'T HAVE SPEED ADJUSTMENT!" I decided to go down and clean the router.. and found a handy speed adjustment on the top.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 13, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Haha how bout that!? After swearing at the guy in the video saying "IT DOESN'T HAVE SPEED ADJUSTMENT!" I decided to go down and clean the router.. and found a handy speed adjustment on the top.


I didn't watch the video yet, but the dude did actually said there's no speed adjusment on the router? 
I don't if I would lend him a screwdiver...

And yep, I think that it's you who have the same (almost) router as me. You're the choosen one.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 13, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> I didn't watch the video yet, but the dude did actually said there's no speed adjusment on the router?
> I don't if I would lend him a screwdiver...
> 
> And yep, I think that it's you who have the same (almost) router as me. You're the choosen one.



I think he meant that the guy said there was, and he was saying there wasn't.

I didn't get a router, I was in the store to get one when my older sister's friend came over to my dad and I (he works there and saw us) and asked what we were looking for and told us his dad has a router and planer and such that we could use. So I just got back from his house and in one hour we got more done than I have since the start of this thread. I'll post pics tomorrow. We got the mahogany planed to what I wanted so I can use it as a top in the center of the body (like this only in front.) We got some planing done on the neck piece, but the wood was too hard for the blade on the planer and we wound up breaking a circuit or something. I'll take pics of the wood tomorrow.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 14, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> We got some planing done on the neck piece, but the wood was too hard for the blade on the planer and we wound up breaking a circuit or something. I'll take pics of the wood tomorrow.



What's the neck wood? Iron wood? Petrified? Titanium?
Anyway, that sounds great (and you have now an idea of how usefull a router is).


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## AwDeOh (Apr 14, 2013)

Yup.. that sounds like a blunt planer blade to me.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 14, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Yup.. that sounds like a blunt planer blade to me.



The wood is hard maple, combined with a very old, rusty, blunt planer blade. So yeah, that didn't go over too well. After we broke the power we decided to just get the mahogany done since it was smaller.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 14, 2013)

Okay, I'll start with the mahogany piece seeing as it's the only piece that is actually ready to be used. 



























And now, the neck. 


























Here you can see where the planer stopped and we broke the circuit.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 14, 2013)

That mahogany looks really, really nice dude. I'm just a bit worried about the maple, could you take a photo of the ends so we can see the grain alignment? It looks like a piece that'll definitely need to be laminated.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 14, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> That mahogany looks really, really nice dude. I'm just a bit worried about the maple, could you take a photo of the ends so we can see the grain alignment? It looks like a piece that'll definitely need to be laminated.



Thanks! Yeah I'll take one tomorrow. Don't feel like waiting another hour for pictures to upload. It isn't quartersawn, but it's fucking hard.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 14, 2013)

It'll probably work fine, you'll just need to cut it down into strips and re-arrange the grain so that the pieces act against each other to cancel out warping.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 14, 2013)

Yeah, if I end up doing that I'll probably throw in some other strips of mahogany I have. I've got so much of that I could probably glue it all together to make a neck if I needed to.


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## Nag (Apr 14, 2013)

needs moar pics


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## muffinbutton (Apr 14, 2013)

Moar pics will come tomorrow! I don't feel like taking more and waiting another hour to upload them.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 15, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> Yeah, if I end up doing that I'll probably throw in some other strips of mahogany I have. I've got so much of that I could probably glue it all together to make a neck if I needed to.


Maple/mahogany necks: winning combo


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## muffinbutton (Apr 15, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> Maple/mahogany necks: winning combo



The pieces of mahogany I have aren't that thick. It should still look good though.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 15, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> The pieces of mahogany I have aren't that thick. It should still look good though.


Those pieces I used were like 8/10 mm thick. How thick your board is?


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## muffinbutton (Apr 15, 2013)

They vary, I'll have to wait till I'm home from school to check them out. Some are thinner than others. I think the thickest I have would be about 1/2 inch.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 15, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> They vary, I'll have to wait till I'm home from school to check them out. Some are thinner than others. I think the thickest I have would be about 1/2 inch.


That's more than what I've used, so I think you're large enough.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 15, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> That's more than what I've used, so I think you're large enough.



well I guess I don't have to worry about the neck not being thick enough. After next period I'll be able to cut the body wings out. (assuming my school has a planer) I might do the neck at home, or bring it here to do during my lunch period cuz the blade on my dad's table saw is pretty dull. Then again he has like five....


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## muffinbutton (Apr 15, 2013)

So the school has a planer.

Fucking broken. 

So I carried around the body wing pieces all day for nothing. Guess I have to continue using other people's shit irregularly. But I'm probably going to be taking the neck in on wednesday to chop up and glue together. Or thursday. I really don't want to go look at the mahogany I have right now.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 15, 2013)

So here's the end grain for those who are interested.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 23, 2013)

What's this? An update? I got the neck cut into thirds. Got some more mahogany cut to go with it. Ok, someone tell me again which piece of maple goes where?


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## AwDeOh (Apr 23, 2013)

I'd swap the middle and right pieces around, then flip the new right-hand piece end over end to reverse the grain.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 23, 2013)

Alright, I have the neck all planed down, I'll post pics tomorrow. Looks pretty legit so far.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 24, 2013)

I'd personnaly just flip the central piece of a half turn around it's axis (so on the end pic shown above). Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I'd do.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 24, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> I'd swap the middle and right pieces around, then flip the new right-hand piece end over end to reverse the grain.


 
Hmm. I wish I had seen this before I had them planed. The middle one is thicker than the other two. Fuck.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 24, 2013)

What I have so far:

The neck. 





Some sawdust. (planer dust?) Whatever. 





And this. 





Going back to thickness the body sides in a little bit. Then probably cutting them out on the bandsaw at school.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 26, 2013)

k, so when I glue the neck, 1. should i put like some newspaper or something underneath?
2. should i put some weights and stuff on top? I'm doing it later today so the sooner you can answer the better.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 26, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> k, so when I glue the neck, 1. should i put like some newspaper or something underneath?


145645412121654 times no!
The glue might spread out (and that's not really bad, it means there's glue on the whole joint plane), and if you put newpaper, it will glue on it and leave tons of traces you'll spend many hours to remove by sanding or anything. You better use cooking/baking paper (for those cakes) or plastic film, or any material on which glue can't adhere.


muffinbutton said:


> 2. should i put some weights and stuff on top? I'm doing it later today so the sooner you can answer the better.


If all your pieces are planed and of the same thickness, yes, put it under weight/press to keep it all aligned.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 26, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> 145645412121654 times no!
> The glue might spread out (and that's not really bad, it means there's glue on the whole joint plane), and if you put newpaper, it will glue on it and leave tons of traces you'll spend many hours to remove by sanding or anything. You better use cooking/baking paper (for those cakes) or plastic film, or any material on which glue can't adhere.



Ok, so wax paper? how much?


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## muffinbutton (Apr 26, 2013)

Oh and, I only have 4 clamps.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 27, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> Ok, so wax paper? how much?


?

What "how much"? Just enough to protect the table from the glue that will drip out of the neck, but not too much to still be able to cook a cake while neck is drying, like Scherzo.

PS: 4 clamps is quite few. You'll have to use side support very rigid to help the pressure to get all along the neck.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 27, 2013)

I just decided it would be safer to have someone that's done it before help.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 27, 2013)

If you never do it by yourself, you'll never learn. 
Gluing is not so hard nor tricky. You put some glue on your wood, you spread it all over the joint plane with a plastic spatula (plastic has the advantage that glue doesn't really stick on it -I use a left over of plexi personnaly), leaving a layer of, let say, 0.2 mm (not a thick layer of glue, it's usefull and will be less rigid at the end). Then, you put the two pieces in contact, clamp it down, and go on.

If you're not really sure of the order of operations and all, do it blank before (without glue) and repeat the operation 2/3 times on how you will do it. You'll prevent every small problems (like the clamp that has been left on the other side of the workshop, the table that is not clear enough, etc.), and you'll be confident enough to do it fast and perfectly.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 27, 2013)

I'm gonna do it myself next time, by then I should have more clamps. I just don't really want to fuck up the neck on a neck through guitar. I;m not going to have him do it for me, I'm gonna have him help me do it. I don't really have the money to mess something like this up.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 28, 2013)

So I noticed that my bridge is about a half inch smaller than my neck. Should I try planing the center piece down some so that I can switch it around with the side pieces like awdeoh said? or should it be fine like it is?


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## muffinbutton (Apr 28, 2013)

Anybody? Sorry for triple posting but I'm going back later today and don't know if I should bring the neck pieces again.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 28, 2013)

So I got the body planed a bit. It's all smooth now, gonna need to be planed some more after the neck is glued and planed to be perfect. I think I'm gonna make this somewhere between as thick as a blackmachine and Ibanez S8.





















I don't know which sides I like better.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 28, 2013)

The neck is sorta up to you man, it's all about how you want it to look. I guess if you plan the middle piece down some more, you won't be risking having the walnut overrunning the maple when the neck gets tapered down at the nut.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 28, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> The neck is sorta up to you man, it's all about how you want it to look. I guess if you plan the middle piece down some more, you won't be risking having the walnut overrunning the maple when the neck gets tapered down at the nut.



Mahogany, (as far as I know) And I don't think it does. I'll check tomorrow. I already went to the guys house and didn't bring it. I'll be fine either way. Going to glue it tomorrow or tuesday I think. (for real this time)


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## Necromagnon (Apr 29, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> The neck is sorta up to you man, it's all about how you want it to look. I guess if you plan the middle piece down some more, you won't be risking having the walnut overrunning the maple when the neck gets tapered down at the nut.


This.

There's no strict rules about it. And the plies that disappeared in the tapper on the neck existe, and doesn't make it worse. I don't have the pics, but I remember a 11 ply neck on a bass, with at least the 2 outer ones getting lost before the nut. It's just about looking.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 29, 2013)

See here:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...omebuilt-blackmachine-clone-baritone-7-a.html






That's all I'm really talking about - functionally nothing wrong with it, as long as there's no twisting, it's just one of those things that can happen if you don't measure the taper properly, or cut too much off one side.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 29, 2013)

Alright. I'm not worried about the outside ones being lost in the taper, I think it would be kinda cool. Should be gluing later today or tomorrow. For real this time.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 29, 2013)

In case you were wondering what happened to the original piece of mahogany, it's going to be something like this. possibly on the back though. Oh and I am going to plane the center piece of the neck down some more. Not being able to see the maple around the nut is fine, when it's barely there for most of the neck I have a problem with it.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 29, 2013)

So I learned a few really useful things about gluing laminate necks.
1. clamp one at a time. from one end to the other, like a zipper. 
2. put all the clamps on without glue. then drill a hole through them all on both ends. Take them all apart and put a piece of tape over the holes so glue doesn't get in. apply and spread glue, remove tape, put pieces together, insert dowel rods into holes to keep them from moving. proceed to clamp like normal. Then once the glue sets, cut the edges off so the rods are gone.


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## AwDeOh (Apr 29, 2013)

That's looking really good man, glad you found some more clamps to use.

The only thing I should ask is how tight those clamps are, because some of them look like the spine bar is bending. It's probably not going to be a problem unless you used Hulk Smash grade strength to tighten them and squeezed out too much glue in the process.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 29, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> That's looking really good man, glad you found some more clamps to use.
> 
> The only thing I should ask is how tight those clamps are, because some of them look like the spine bar is bending. It's probably not going to be a problem unless you used Hulk Smash grade strength to tighten them and squeezed out too much glue in the process.



They were already bent. The guy they belong to builds basses a lot. Right now he's working on a 6 string with LED side dot markers. They look cool as hell. I regret not taking a picture. *pleasedontbanme*


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## Necromagnon (Apr 30, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> 2. put all the clamps on without glue. then drill a hole through them all on both ends. Take them all apart and put a piece of tape over the holes so glue doesn't get in. apply and spread glue, remove tape, put pieces together, insert dowel rods into holes to keep them from moving. proceed to clamp like normal. Then once the glue sets, cut the edges off so the rods are gone.


Only usefull if you're very short on length left, imo. I've never done this, only put the pieces down on a flat surface to have a flat reference, and in the length, I just put it "by hand", and it always works out well.

1 thing I'd like to add on the pics with the clamps is that you didn't use "martyrs", scrap pieces of wood that will support the mark left by the clamps instead of the neck it self. You'll most probably have to remove 1 mm on both side. I hope you have some margin.


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## MF_Kitten (Apr 30, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> I used to watch BBT, but those false laughs give me murder tendencies...



that IS a real audience though.


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## Necromagnon (Apr 30, 2013)

MF_Kitten said:


> that IS a real audience though.



So it's even worse than what I thought...


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## muffinbutton (Apr 30, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> Only usefull if you're very short on length left, imo. I've never done this, only put the pieces down on a flat surface to have a flat reference, and in the length, I just put it "by hand", and it always works out well.
> 
> 1 thing I'd like to add on the pics with the clamps is that you didn't use "martyrs", scrap pieces of wood that will support the mark left by the clamps instead of the neck it self. You'll most probably have to remove 1 mm on both side. I hope you have some margin.



There's plenty of room. I need to come down at least 10mm.


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## muffinbutton (Apr 30, 2013)

Hey, is 1mm thick enough to be used for inlay?


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## AwDeOh (Apr 30, 2013)

Not really, unless it's a tiny inlay, like a standard dot. Even then you'll still be risking sanding right through it when you get to putting the radius on the fretboard.

What's the 1mm material you're thinking of using?


----------



## muffinbutton (Apr 30, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Not really, unless it's a tiny inlay, like a standard dot. Even then you'll still be risking sanding right through it when you get to putting the radius on the fretboard.
> 
> What's the 1mm material you're thinking of using?



I also have 2mm, 1/4in, 3/16in, and 1/8in. All of it's maple.


----------



## AwDeOh (Apr 30, 2013)

The 1/8" or 3/16" will be about right. What inlays are you doing? Do you have a dremel?


----------



## muffinbutton (May 1, 2013)

I'm just doing squares/rectangles. And no but I have access to them.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 2, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> The 1/8" or 3/16" will be about right. What inlays are you doing? Do you have a dremel?


+1
Except for the dremel. If you have a base, and you practise a lot with it, ok. But if not, I would advise you to stay miles away from it. It's so easy to f*ck your fb with it.
If you're doing squares/rectangle Gibson's like inlay, I'd advise you to go for chisels. Proceed like follow:
1) cut is a knife or something thin and sharp the contour of the inlay. This will cut the fibres and prevent any pieces to strip away
2) take small passes with your chisels, starting from the contour to the center.
3) regurlaly cut the contour to be sure to cut fibres, because on small thickness, fibres from under can easily take a few layers out
4) continu with the chisels, removing all the material inside
5) use your chisels on the "inverse" side to scrap the sides of the cavity to have something smooth
6) you're done

I proceed like that for all the inlay I make, and I feel 12454545 much safer than using a dremel. One more thing is that if you start to rip off a little part or anything, you can stop before it's all gone and glue it done like if it never happens.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> +1
> Except for the dremel. If you have a base, and you practise a lot with it, ok. But if not, I would advise you to stay miles away from it. It's so easy to f*ck your fb with it.
> If you're doing squares/rectangle Gibson's like inlay, I'd advise you to go for chisels. Proceed like follow:
> 1) cut is a knife or something thin and sharp the contour of the inlay. This will cut the fibres and prevent any pieces to strip away
> ...



Alright. I can do that. Chisels are my dad's favorite tool.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 2, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> Alright. I can do that. Chisels are my dad's favorite tool.


So evenmore, he will be of great help to healp you learn how to use it (because it can still hurt you bad) and how to do those inlay cavities.


----------



## foreright (May 2, 2013)

I (vividly!) remember chiselling a piece of bone out of my finger once whilst taking the top off a wooden fingerboard dot. So much blood...


----------



## Necromagnon (May 2, 2013)

foreright said:


> I (vividly!) remember chiselling a piece of bone out of my finger once whilst taking the top off a wooden fingerboard dot. So much blood...


But at least, it's a clean cut, unlike with spinning tool. But yes, it can be very dangerous for your finger. Rule number one, never push the chisel in the direction of a fragile stuff (fingers, arms, belly, or even fragile furniture).

Anyway, hope you got better of it (I know what it is to miss a part of a finger...).


----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

I shall be carefull with the chisels. Can someone find me a video to watch on it when I get home? I'm at school right now.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 2, 2013)

Here a video of the french luthier (I already posted a video of him, but they're kind great to look at) making a neck pocket with chisels.
https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=407081769384459

It's not exactly the same as a fingerboard inlay but at least, it might give you a few tips.

PS: this one seems good also:


You see at the very beginning what I was saying about cutting contour of the inlay with a knife.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

Thanks! I'll check it out when i get home. 2 more hours to go....


----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> Here a video of the french luthier (I already posted a video of him, but they're kind great to look at) making a neck pocket with chisels.
> https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=407081769384459
> 
> It's not exactly the same as a fingerboard inlay but at least, it might give you a few tips.
> ...




That video was really helpful man! thanks. I'll be sure to watch it again when I start the inlays.


----------



## AwDeOh (May 2, 2013)

Also keep the chisels sharp. You're more likely to have an accident with a blunt chisel (and pretty much every other edged tool, especially kitchen knives) than a sharp one.

The ability to sharpen chisels, scrapers and such is a really good skill to have, and habit to use as a woodworker.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Also keep the chisels sharp. You're more likely to have an accident with a blunt chisel (and pretty much every other edged tool, especially kitchen knives) than a sharp one.
> 
> The ability to sharpen chisels, scrapers and such is a really good skill to have, and habit to use as a woodworker.



Got it. I might just get some new ones cuz I'm not sure if he has any small enough for the higher frets. If he does I'll make sure they're sharp.


----------



## AwDeOh (May 2, 2013)




----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


>




I shall watch it. Also, I'm about to practice fret leveling on a guitar that doesn't really work anymore. I have 80 grit and 220 grit sandpaper. which should i use?


----------



## skeels (May 2, 2013)

Ooo! I know this one! 

Definitely use the 220. You'll be surprised how it can eat through frets and if you are just starting you don't want to take off too much.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

skeels said:


> Ooo! I know this one!
> 
> Definitely use the 220. You'll be surprised how it can eat through frets and if you are just starting you don't want to take off too much.



Thanks!


----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

GOT THE NECK BACK! Needs to be planed again so all the pieces are the same size, then I get to do a scarf joint. That should be fun. Is there some way to measure the angle without a protractor? 












My dog has amazing timing.


----------



## theo (May 2, 2013)

Your dogs tail is missing...


----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

theo said:


> Your dogs tail is missing...



He still has a stub! Leave him alone. He still hasn't realized he can't catch it.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 2, 2013)

Hey, would I be able to use the 1mm maple as binding or something?


----------



## Necromagnon (May 3, 2013)

1mm is kinda small for a binding. Depends on the look you want to have seen from the front of the guitar. I personnaly go for a binding that is 2.5 mm thick to 3 mm, after that it can be multiply or anything. Your 1mm maple could be use a part of the binding, adding a black part or something dark to contrast with its white.

About fret leveling and grit... Dude, I use 600 grit and it's pretty voracious! 
Try to find much smaller grit, because a too high grit will eat to much of the frets and leave too many marks that you'll spend 3/4 times the time spend for leveling in trying to have smooth and polished frets.

Also, I agree at 100% with the kangaroo (ah, no, in NZ, it's penguins  ) with the sharpness of your tools. A badly sharpened tool will oblige you to force strong to take into the wood, and that's where you're most likely to put the chisel in your fingers. You might have noticed on the video about the inlay that the guy NEVER force to take the wood away.


----------



## AwDeOh (May 3, 2013)

^ Here in New Zealand it's sheep. The Australians love to joke that we have sex with them.. but it wasn't us that bred our national animal to be bent over ready to take it. 

That said, I was born in Australia. I guess my loyalties depend on who is winning the rugby.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 3, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> ^ Here in New Zealand it's sheep. The Australians love to joke that we have sex with them.. but it wasn't us that bred our national animal to be bent over ready to take it.
> 
> That said, I was born in Australia. I guess my loyalties depend on who is winning the rugby.




You mean the black sheep?





Anyway, you can still dream of it, but next world cup will be won by France (yes, I can still dream of it also...)


----------



## AwDeOh (May 3, 2013)

More like this:






Graham Henry (AB's coach for World Cup) is actually my step father's cousin, so the WC win was pretty cool for us.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 3, 2013)

(I don't see the pics)

For your step father's cousin, that's pretty classy, dude.


----------



## AwDeOh (May 3, 2013)

Pic says:

My girlfriend asked me how many sexual partners I've had.

I started counting, but fell asleep.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 3, 2013)

(PS: who. I just do a right clic -> show image; it popped me to the site, and now I see the image in your post...  )


----------



## muffinbutton (May 3, 2013)

Why the hell are you all talking about sheep? haha. Later today I'll ask about when I can go plane it.


----------



## AwDeOh (May 3, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> Why the hell are you all talking about sheep? haha. Later today I'll ask about when I can go plane it.



Silence. This thread is now about shagging sheep.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 3, 2013)

Of course it is. lol


----------



## Necromagnon (May 3, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Silence!


----------



## callankirk (May 3, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> GOT THE NECK BACK! Needs to be planed again so all the pieces are the same size, then I get to do a scarf joint. That should be fun. Is there some way to measure the angle without a protractor?



Trigonometry. Piece of cake, just measure very carefully and double check your calculations.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 3, 2013)

callankirk said:


> Piece of cake,


Scherzo is in the place?



But seriously, +1.
Cosine, sine, tangent, all those basics will be very helpfull.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 3, 2013)

Luckily enough, we're working on those in math. but I have no idea how to do this on them. I have the calculator for it. How do I set it up?


----------



## muffinbutton (May 3, 2013)

So my dad is getting me a belt/disc sander and a bandsaw on monday. And possibly a router table.


----------



## AwDeOh (May 3, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> So my dad is getting me a belt/disc sander and a bandsaw on monday. And possibly a router table.



First thought: your dad rules.

Second thought: learn to use it all properly, safely.

Third thought: see if he'll add a drill press in there


----------



## muffinbutton (May 3, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> First thought: your dad rules.
> 
> Second thought: learn to use it all properly, safely.
> 
> Third thought: see if he'll add a drill press in there



1. He really does. he has some not so great moments, but he really is awesome. 

2. "how do I do this again? Where the fuck is my finger?!" 

3. I'm pretty sure we have two. And I don't want to push my luck.


----------



## AwDeOh (May 3, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> 3. I'm pretty sure we have two. And I don't want to push my luck.



Have you made/bought a drum sanding setup for one of them yet? You'll find it very handy for body/headstock edges, and they're a breeze to make.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 3, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Have you made/bought a drum sanding setup for one of them yet? You'll find it very handy for body/headstock edges, and they're a breeze to make.



I have not. Wouldn't the router table (if he gets it) work for doing that stuff?

also, I still don't know how to do the headstock angle. I was thinking 12 degrees (unless someone has a better suggestion for an 8 string)


----------



## Necromagnon (May 3, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> I have not. Wouldn't the router table (if he gets it) work for doing that stuff?


Router turns really too fast for sanding. It won't work. That's why you'll have to mount it on your drill press. And I 100% agree with Awdeoh, you'll find it freaking usefull when coming to sand the edges of both body and headstock (and any other stuffs with perpendicular edges and concaves curves).



muffinbutton said:


> also, I still don't know how to do the headstock angle. I was thinking 12 degrees (unless someone has a better suggestion for an 8 string)


It depends on the tuner you'll use, and if you'll be using/willing to use string tree (also called "string retainers"). 12° might be a bit small if you don't use staggered post tuners. I generally go for 15°, just to be safe. But it's always roughly.
About drawing, it's kinda easy. Place your self in a rectangle triangle, with on "small" edge on the top of the actual wood blank, and the hypotenus on the mark that will be the headstock final plane (so at your angle). With this, you can do all you want, specially tangent: tan(a)=opposite/adjacent .
Adjacent is the top plane (of actual blank), opposite is the perpendicular mark you'll have to draw. You take a simple value for "adjacent" (for ex: 100 mm), you know the desired angle, so you calculate the length of the "opposite" segment. You draw it perpendicular to "adjacent", of the length, and you link the two points. You have you're angle.
(not easy to just write it down....  )


----------



## muffinbutton (May 3, 2013)

This look right?


----------



## Necromagnon (May 4, 2013)

It looks quite good, view from here.
But don't you have anything to measure (at least) the angle? If not, go buy one in any school furniture shop. Those simple in plastic should cost like 5 bucks, at least. It will allow you to verify angles (not really helpfull to draw them).


----------



## muffinbutton (May 4, 2013)

I'll try to get one.


----------



## samhell12 (May 5, 2013)

it looks great are going with a scrarf joint ???


----------



## muffinbutton (May 5, 2013)

samhell12 said:


> it looks great are going with a scrarf joint ???



Yup. That's what the line in the above picture is for.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 7, 2013)

GOT ME SOME TOOLS!

Belt/disc sander.






Bandsaw.





50 spare blades and shit.


----------



## AwDeOh (May 7, 2013)

Oh you lucky little bastard.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 8, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Oh you lucky little bastard.


Same...


----------



## Mattmc74 (May 8, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Thought about using Titebond?



 Titebond II is what i use, strong stuff!


----------



## muffinbutton (May 8, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Oh you lucky little bastard.



 My dad got it all for $100. I still need to find a planer before I can really use them though.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 8, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> My dad got it all for $100. I still need to find a planer before I can really use them though.


...





...


----------



## muffinbutton (May 8, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
The guy had just sold the planer when my dad got there. I was disappointed.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 8, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> The guy had just sold the planer when my dad got there. I was disappointed.


I don't know if I should say "_Sorry for you_" or


----------



## muffinbutton (May 8, 2013)

I don't mind. The only reason it was so cheap is cuz it just got nice out here so everyone had garage sales.


----------



## Necromagnon (May 8, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> I don't mind. The only reason it was so cheap is cuz it just got nice out here so everyone had garage sales.


Lucky man. In France, no matter what, they always try to f*ck you.


----------



## muffinbutton (May 8, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> Lucky man. In France, no matter what, they always try to f*ck you.



That's really gotta suck. Oh, I stopped trying to read that french forum when I saw the thread was 25 pages long. Don't have that kind of attention span. haha


----------



## muffinbutton (May 8, 2013)

Ok I'm desperate. I'm looking into a planer with broken height adjustment. My dad and I could probably do something about it. but it's close, $50 and a planer. which means progress.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 3, 2013)

soooo, pics? pics. 







What glue lines?


----------



## AwDeOh (Jun 3, 2013)

Looks good mate, you happy with it?


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 3, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Looks good mate, you happy with it?



First off, holy shit that was fast. Second, I got what I wanted. It's all flat and smooth. I'm waiting on a planer to make it all square though. So I'm sort of happy with it. Thanks!


----------



## skeels (Jun 3, 2013)

skeels likes this.


----------



## Necromagnon (Jun 3, 2013)

You should try to avoid flash when taking close pics, and switch to macro mode!


Looking good!


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 3, 2013)

It was dark in my bedroom when I took them. I'll try to take some better ones later.


----------



## Riley (Jun 3, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> First off, holy shit that was fast. Second, I got what I wanted. It's all flat and smooth. I'm waiting on a planer to make it all square though. So I'm sort of happy with it. Thanks!



You mean a jointer? A planer won't do much to make it square.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 3, 2013)

Riley said:


> You mean a jointer? A planer won't do much to make it square.



I usually call both a planer. It's just easier.


----------



## Riley (Jun 3, 2013)




----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 3, 2013)

Haha. I know the difference, don't worry.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 11, 2013)

So I came home from my test today and saw this in my dad's truck. 





After some of this, 





I get this. 










This is the end that will have the headstock. how should I cut it so that this shit isn't visible?


----------



## OfArtAndArsenal (Jun 11, 2013)

Jeez. 7 pages and still no guitar? Hurry up.



Just kidding. Looks good so far man.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 11, 2013)

OfArtAndArsenal said:


> Jeez. 7 pages and still no guitar? Hurry up.
> 
> 
> 
> Just kidding. Looks good so far man.



It should be here in another 7 or so.  haha. But it should start coming along. The planer wasn't mine, my dad took it back to his friend earlier but I don't think I need it again.


----------



## callankirk (Jun 11, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> This is the end that will have the headstock. how should I cut it so that this shit isn't visible?



If that's the headstock end, and you're planning on doing a scarf joint, it will be on the back of the headstock - so when you cut it to thickness it shouldn't even be there...soooo I wouldn't sweat it. 

Now if you're not doing a scarf - which myself, and, well, everyone else here would NOT recommend - then you're still okay because of the drop at the nut from the F-word-styled headstock (aka non-scarfed) eliminates that wood from the surface. 

Basically you should be fine either way. If it still looks bad after it's all said and done, veneer it!


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 11, 2013)

callankirk said:


> If that's the headstock end, and you're planning on doing a scarf joint, it will be on the back of the headstock - so when you cut it to thickness it shouldn't even be there...soooo I wouldn't sweat it.
> 
> Now if you're not doing a scarf - which myself, and, well, everyone else here would NOT recommend - then you're still okay because of the drop at the nut from the F-word-styled headstock (aka non-scarfed) eliminates that wood from the surface.
> 
> Basically you should be fine either way. If it still looks bad after it's all said and done, veneer it!



I am planning on doing a scarf joint. Thanks for the advice. I asked someone else about it, I might just put the fretboard over it or something if it's there. or I might cover it with the mahogany on the back. Probably gonna do that. 100% chance it won't be visible that way.


----------



## AwDeOh (Jun 11, 2013)

callankirk said:


> Now if you're not doing a scarf - which myself, and, well, everyone else here would NOT recommend



Why's that?


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 11, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Why's that?



I feel safer doing a scarf. I don't think the other way looks as sturdy, and don't want to find out on the guitar I'm building myself.


----------



## AwDeOh (Jun 12, 2013)

We're talking about a no-joint headstock, right? Or are you guys talking about a different type of joint to the scarf?


----------



## Necromagnon (Jun 12, 2013)

+1 with Kirk.
Also, I'd add that if the piece cut from the scarf still presents this defect, instead of using this to be the headstock, cut the back of the neck and use this to be the headstock. You'll have a perfectly sane and matching piece, without any problem.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 12, 2013)

I think I'm just covering it with the mahogany. 100% chance that it won't show. 
AwDeOh, this is the other joint he's talking about I think.


----------



## callankirk (Jun 12, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> We're talking about a no-joint headstock, right? Or are you guys talking about a different type of joint to the scarf?



Correct, a no-joint headstock. Scarfs, when done correctly, seem to provide a lot more stability (mainly the glue joint). Again, it's gotta be done right and done well. And IIRC there was a thread somewhere on here about string tension over a scarf'd headstock being slightly "better" for sustain than a one-piece neck? Not sure though


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 12, 2013)

callankirk said:


> Correct, a no-joint headstock. Scarfs, when done correctly, seem to provide a lot more stability (mainly the glue joint). Again, it's gotta be done right and done well. And IIRC there was a thread somewhere on here about string tension over a scarf'd headstock being slightly "better" for sustain than a one-piece neck? Not sure though



I don't have enough thickness for a no joint anyway. So scarf joint it is. According to my calculator, for a 15 degree angle I want a 14.99 inch cut. I assume that is both correct and that it's safe to round up to a 15 inch cut? I should be doing this later today so fast answers would be nice. neck is 1 inch thick right now.


----------



## ElRay (Jun 12, 2013)

Mattmc74 said:


> Titebond II is what i use, strong stuff!



Titebond III is the strongest and also has the longest open time; however, the additives keep it a bit flexible when cured. Also, it creeps the most under tension, so I really wouldn't want to use it on neck laminations. Titebond II is also a bit more flexible than Original Titebond.

Original Titebond dries the stiffest and is the most "heat reversible" (good if you have to remove a fretboard), so it's really the best for guitars.

If it was a perfect world, I'd use polyurethane or epoxy for neck laminations, hot hide glue for veneers (wets veneers well, fills small gaps/voids, "pulls in" veneers and heat can be used to fix bubbles, etc.) and fingerboards (better heat reversibility) and Original Titebond for everything else.

That said, you really can't go wrong for any "normal" build with Original Titebond.

Ray


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 12, 2013)

ElRay said:


> Titebond III is the strongest and also has the longest open time; however, the additives keep it a bit flexible when cured. Also, it creeps the most under tension, so I really wouldn't want to use it on neck laminations. Titebond II is also a bit more flexible than Original Titebond.
> 
> Original Titebond dries the stiffest and is the most "heat reversible" (good if you have to remove a fretboard), so it's really the best for guitars.
> 
> ...



I used titebond II for the neck. If I see original at the store today I'll grab it. All done with school now so I have the rest of summer to work on this if I need to. Hopefully I finish it before school starts again. I don't think that should be a problem though. 

oh and umm, if it's still flexible how is it the strongest? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 12, 2013)

Need to know this like now. 
where should I make the cut for the scarf joint? right at the end of the scale length? or back a little further for sanding and stuff?


----------



## AwDeOh (Jun 12, 2013)

Your scale length should be measured from where you cut/join the scarf, back to the bridge - not the other way around. So do the scarf joint properly, then trim the bridge end when you need to.


----------



## AwDeOh (Jun 12, 2013)

callankirk said:


> Correct, a no-joint headstock. Scarfs, when done correctly, seem to provide a lot more stability (mainly the glue joint). Again, it's gotta be done right and done well. And IIRC there was a thread somewhere on here about string tension over a scarf'd headstock being slightly "better" for sustain than a one-piece neck? Not sure though



I'd be interested to see the thread. I know there's debate about which face the scarf joint should be made with, but I've never seen a comparison of scarf vs. no-scarf. Personally I've never seen a laminated neck with a one-piece headstock crack or break.. that seems to be more of a problem seen in non-laminated (one piece) necks, or caused by a bad scarf joint (be it the wood, the joint technique, or the glue) or bad construction (trying to thin the neck too close to the truss rod).

As far as my own builds go, I'm confident in one-piece with the strength from the laminating, plus it's just easier since my supplier stocks 50mm and 75mm thicknesses, and I have uses for all the offcuts that people try to avoid making in using a scarf.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 12, 2013)

Lack of tools strikes again. The guy we thought would have something to cut the neck with didn't have anything big enough. gonna glue the mahogany on the back in a little bit though.


----------



## Necromagnon (Jun 13, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> oh and umm, if it's still flexible how is it the strongest? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


It's the problem of common/popular sense vs scientific sense. You can have a very strong material (i.e. that will hold well against very high stress) but much stiffless than another one (i.e. for a given stress, it will deform more than a stiffer material).

That's 2 different parameters, that are commonly blended together, but it shouldn't.

About scarf vs no scarf, I agree with AwDeOh: this is more a problem, I think, for one piece necks (Gib's mostly) than for laminates. But for sure, a no-scarf headstock is less resistant than a scarfed one, no matter neck construction.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 13, 2013)

I feel safer doing a scarf joint. personal preference.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 25, 2013)

Got some work done on the headstock. I cut it yesterday and then spent the night at my friends house. 






Sanded it and then did a dry run to make sure everything was where it needed to be when I did the real thing. Asked AwDeOh and Nick from Zoov (if you don't know zoov here is his website) and they both said to add clamps. So I added another.






And then we have this. Should be dry sometime tomorrow.






I'll post pics of it when it's all dry and stuff tomorrow or the next day. I promise.


----------



## AwDeOh (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm sure I saw Arnold Schwarzenegger lifting those clamps in the weeks before he won his first Mr. Universe..


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 25, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> I'm sure I saw Arnold Schwarzenegger lifting those clamps in the weeks before he won his first Mr. Universe..



Those aren't even my biggest.  My dad is gonna see if the guy we got the saw and sander from is gonna sell his router table tomorrow. If not we'll probably just get a new one from sears or something. a list of what types of bits to get would be nice.


----------



## AwDeOh (Jun 26, 2013)

What size collet(s) does your router have?


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 26, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> What size collet(s) does your router have?



I don't have one. My dad is gonna try to buy one from the guy tomorrow. If he doesn't want to sell it then we have to buy a new one. in which case, probably some craftsman or something we saw there that was like $70 or so. I'll look it up.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jun 26, 2013)

If the guy won't sell his we'll probably get this

Craftsman 12-amp, 2-hp Fixed Base Router with Soft Start Technology - Tools - Corded Handheld Power Tools - All Corded Power Tools

or this. 

Craftsman 9.5 AMP 1 3/4 HP Fixed Base Router - Tools - Corded Handheld Power Tools - All Corded Power Tools


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## AwDeOh (Jun 26, 2013)

I'd go for the top one, purely because it can take both 1/2" and 1/4" bits.

For routing cavities, you'll want one or two pattern-follow bits:






A couple of flush trim bits:






And maybe some unguided straight bits:






As far as width/length, it depends on the job. When you're routing a pickup cavity, you'll probably want a shorter length pattern-follow, and also a longer one to reach the bottom. From memory the corner curves are generally from a 3/8" (9.5mm) wide bit, making a 3/16" radius corner. Or something to that effect


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## muffinbutton (Jun 26, 2013)

I figured the one that takes both size would probably be better. Thanks a ton. oh and what are some good materials to make the nut out of?


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## AwDeOh (Jun 26, 2013)

Grab a Graphtech blank at the size you need, I think from memory there's one on there that'll be big enough for 8 String, someone asked about it a while back.

Guitar Products & Accessories | Graph Tech

Or you could do bone.


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## muffinbutton (Jun 26, 2013)

Are there any other materials that would work well though? aside from brass and other metals.


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## AwDeOh (Jun 26, 2013)

You could cut the sides off this:







Or..






What about this?






Or maybe...:


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## muffinbutton (Jun 26, 2013)

I think I'll try number 3.


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## Necromagnon (Jun 26, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


>


Isn't it already a nut? I see the string slots on that.

Also: is it me or the picture behind doesn't correspond to the bit shown here:






Anyway, I agree with what Awdeoh said: 1 copying bit (top bearing bit), 1 flush trim (bottom bearing), and 1 straight of the width of your truss rod (it's 6 mm here, I don't know the size in the imperial system?). That's the standard, and you can do everything with it.


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## muffinbutton (Jun 26, 2013)

I believe the truss rod is 1/4 wide and 1/2 inch tall. I was wondering what was up with that picture too. but it's 3:40 AM here and I'm too tired to care.


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## muffinbutton (Jun 26, 2013)

So. This is the top. 






This is the bottom. 






I need to clean both of those up some how. 

These are the sides. 











and here are close ups of the spots that look like they didn't have enough pressure. Should I be worried?


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## muffinbutton (Jun 26, 2013)

So Nick from Zoov tells me I should re glue it. So I'll do that tomorrow when I wake up.


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## AwDeOh (Jun 27, 2013)

Yup. It looks like the faces weren't planed down perfectly after they were cut.. did you use a straight edge to check the two freshly cut edges were planed flat? You also need to put the two faces together that are being glued, and really inspect it closely to make sure there are no gaps.

Looks like you've got plenty of length to work with, so a re-cut won't cause any problems.


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## muffinbutton (Jun 27, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Yup. It looks like the faces weren't planed down perfectly after they were cut.. did you use a straight edge to check the two freshly cut edges were planed flat? You also need to put the two faces together that are being glued, and really inspect it closely to make sure there are no gaps.
> 
> Looks like you've got plenty of length to work with, so a re-cut won't cause any problems.



I'm just gonna un glue it, get rid of all the glue (I see very coarse sandpaper in my future) and re glue it. with more clamps. More giant clamps.


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## muffinbutton (Jun 27, 2013)

Would a heat gun work to un glue it?


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## AwDeOh (Jun 27, 2013)

Depending on the glue, maybe. But I personally wouldn't want to throw that kinda heat at all the wood that takes the weight in the joint. Run the glue line through a bandsaw or do it by hand, clean it all up and give it another try.


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## muffinbutton (Jun 27, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Depending on the glue, maybe. But I personally wouldn't want to throw that kinda heat at all the wood that takes the weight in the joint. Run the glue line through a bandsaw or do it by hand, clean it all up and give it another try.



titebond II. I don't trust the band saw. or myself by hand.


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## Necromagnon (Jun 28, 2013)

Use steam to unglue it (but don't try to put it on your pc cd reader...). It's easy as hell and cause no problem. I've unglue a complete laminate neck because I missed the order of veners. I proceed like this:
1) use of a steam vacuum cleaner, your mom probably have one?
2) start si the side, somewhere where you can put something in the gap to help the joint to open
3) throw some steam, and open the gap very carefully
4) go on like this, it should take you 15/20 min, I think.
5) let dry your pieces for the rest of the day, you'll come back on it tomorrow

And like Awde said, check planeity of your surface before gluing (put it together without glue if needed, it helps a lot), and also: you use way too much glue.


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## pondman (Jun 29, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> Are there any other materials that would work well though? aside from brass and other metals.



I see Buffalo horn nut blanks branded about recently and just ordered a big chunk to see how it goes. Maybe someone on here has tried it.


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## muffinbutton (Jun 29, 2013)

pondman said:


> I see Buffalo horn nut blanks branded about recently and just ordered a big chunk to see how it goes. Maybe someone on here has tried it.



I actually live in buffalo. haha. I'll see if I can find something. So I've been told phenolic resin would be too difficult to make a fretboard out of, so when I get far enough. I still need to get the headstock off, it cracked when I tried using heat. I'm waiting for it to dry up (It's been raining the past few days, my backyard is a swamp right now) so that I can pull the bandsaw out and finish it. I could do something easy like get a 6 string bass fretboard from lmii, or even see what my local place has (probably will anyway). Or I could do this. get an ebony fretboard from lmii, cut it in half and put some birdseye maple or something like that down the middle and for the last few frets.


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## Necromagnon (Jun 29, 2013)

You can do it also with band inserted at an angle (on the same view as your pic). It could be really nice (I should try to find the pic of that 6 string fretless bass to show you...)

Multy-essence fretboard are killer, anyway!

For the nut, you can use many bones from cows/bull or other big animals like those. Ask your local meat shop to pick up some bones. There's on the internet plenty of tutorials on how to prepare those bones in order to use them as nuts (or anything else). I remember there's a boiling in hot water involved, don't remember exactly how and what.


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## muffinbutton (Jun 29, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> You can do it also with band inserted at an angle (on the same view as your pic). It could be really nice (I should try to find the pic of that 6 string fretless bass to show you...)
> 
> Multy-essence fretboard are killer, anyway!
> 
> For the nut, you can use many bones from cows/bull or other big animals like those. Ask your local meat shop to pick up some bones. There's on the internet plenty of tutorials on how to prepare those bones in order to use them as nuts (or anything else). I remember there's a boiling in hot water involved, don't remember exactly how and what.



Are there any woods that would work?


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## pondman (Jun 29, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> Are there any woods that would work?



Ebony . Never tried it myself .


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## muffinbutton (Jun 29, 2013)

pondman said:


> Ebony . Never tried it myself .



Ebony would probably work good. if it's hard enough for a fretboard it would be hard enough for the nut right?


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## Necromagnon (Jun 30, 2013)

I'm not so sure. I'tried a string guide for a fretzero guitar out of ebony, wenge, and cocobolo, and all broke out, while they were around 5 mm thick. If the strings are perfectly straight from the bridge to the tuner, it can possibly work. But other, I'm almost sure it won't.
In fact, I think its much better to use an homogenous material, that will prevent striping, tearing apart, and so on.


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## skeels (Jun 30, 2013)

I swear by bone for nuts.

Did that sound weird?

Three bucks at the pet store gets one big enough to make at least a few out of.


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## AwDeOh (Jun 30, 2013)

I still think he should install a small dildo. But that's just me..


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## muffinbutton (Jun 30, 2013)

I'll look for some bone or get graphtech. Thanks guys.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 9, 2013)

How do you guys suggest I fix this?


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## callankirk (Jul 9, 2013)

Shit man, how did that happen?!? Looks like you're going to need to start over with a new neck blank. I wouldn't even want to begin messing with that. Sorry dude.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 9, 2013)

callankirk said:


> Shit man, how did that happen?!? Looks like you're going to need to start over with a new neck blank. I wouldn't even want to begin messing with that. Sorry dude.



It happened when I was trying to get the headstock off with the iron. As soon as it cracked I stopped. And I'd rather fix it than start over. would wood dust and glue work?


----------



## Necromagnon (Jul 9, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> It happened when I was trying to get the headstock off with the iron. As soon as it cracked I stopped. And I'd rather fix it than start over. would wood dust and glue work?


It's a crack. Until no piece have broken out, you should by no mean put wood dust on it, simply because it will change the geometry of your piece.
Try to clamp back to place, see if some pieces are missing, and how much force you need to clamp it. If it's too much, I also woudl not use it anymore. This crack means your wood wasn't dry enough (or too much), and the humidity brought by the iron makes it crack.

I'm probably wrong, maybe wait for the input of more expercienced builders, but that's not really good omen...


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## muffinbutton (Jul 9, 2013)

There are some pieces missing, but it can definitely be clamped back into place without too much pressure.


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## pondman (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm afraid if that was mine I would ditch it


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## UnderTheSign (Jul 9, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> It's a crack. Until no piece have broken out, you should by no mean put wood dust on it, simply because it will change the geometry of your piece.
> Try to clamp back to place, see if some pieces are missing, and how much force you need to clamp it. If it's too much, I also woudl not use it anymore. This crack means your wood wasn't dry enough (or too much), and the humidity brought by the iron makes it crack.
> 
> I'm probably wrong, maybe wait for the input of more expercienced builders, but that's not really good omen...


I'm no luthier but if this were a piece of furniture, yeah, see if you can clamp it up and if the cracks close nicely. If so, fill the cracks with glue and glue it up again.

Doesn't look like the steaming caused it (I've rarely seen a piece crack/tear/whatever while steaming, only tear-out in the grain direction while applying pressure when bending steamed wood), more likely to be caused by applied pressure.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 9, 2013)

UnderTheSign said:


> I'm no luthier but if this were a piece of furniture, yeah, see if you can clamp it up and if the cracks close nicely. If so, fill the cracks with glue and glue it up again.
> 
> Doesn't look like the steaming caused it (I've rarely seen a piece crack/tear/whatever while steaming, only tear-out in the grain direction while applying pressure when bending steamed wood), more likely to be caused by applied pressure.



That would be my chisel. I'm gonna try to fix it. If I can't, I'll cut it down the middle and put another piece of mahogany in between. Or should I just do that now?


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## muffinbutton (Jul 9, 2013)

And it's being glued. Hopefully this works.


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## AwDeOh (Jul 9, 2013)

Wow dude.. not really sure what to say about that but sorry it happened. Keen to hear what Max has to say about it, and perhaps Mr. Ormsby if he sees it.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 9, 2013)

Yeah. i'm hoping the glue will work. If not, I have a back up plan. Cut it down the middle, get rid of the cracked parts, put something in their place, and glue it back together with another thin piece of mahogany in the middle. Oh and make it look like I meant for it to have all that.


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## theo (Jul 9, 2013)

Ouch...


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## muffinbutton (Jul 9, 2013)

Yeah. I went into this project knowing I was going to .... something up though.


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## icos211 (Jul 9, 2013)

After watching this build for a long time, when I saw that picture...






Hope it all works out for you, man.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 9, 2013)

icos211 said:


> After watching this build for a long time, when I saw that picture...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It'll all work out somehow. I guarantee* it. 




















*This guarantee is not valid or legally binding in any way, do not bring this post up should I happen to make things worse.


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## TDR (Jul 9, 2013)

This is like my worst fear O_O

Hope everything works out!


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## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

TDR said:


> This is like my worst fear O_O
> 
> Hope everything works out!



Don't be a dumbass like me and don't put a chisel in a scarf joint and you should be good.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

So it looks pretty good. From the front at least. 







Back doesn't look great but hopefully it'll be OK when I carve the neck.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

To avoid a repeat of last time, do I have enough clamps here? I'll be waiting for answers before I actually put glue on anything.


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## pondman (Jul 10, 2013)

For that kind of precise joint I would use a lot more clamps and on each side (but maybe thats just me). The main thing is did you get those surfaces level , I mean totally level . If they are completely level the suction of the glue will keep that joint nice and tight.
Hope all goes well


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## coolfool (Jul 10, 2013)

Hey dude, I will be checking your progress as I am an intrested builder. 
Just joined the sight this a.m. and have already enjoyed its content.
Where did you come by the 8 string bridge? thanks, Coolfool


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## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

pondman said:


> For that kind of precise joint I would use a lot more clamps and on each side (but maybe thats just me). The main thing is did you get those surfaces level , I mean totally level . If they are completely level the suction of the glue will keep that joint nice and tight.
> Hope all goes well



That isn't the headstock. It's just a piece of mahogany on the back of the neck to bring it up to the thickness of the body wings. Not really a precise joint is it?


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## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

coolfool said:


> Hey dude, I will be checking your progress as I am an intrested builder.
> Just joined the sight this a.m. and have already enjoyed its content.
> Where did you come by the 8 string bridge? thanks, Coolfool



The bridge is a hipshot 8 string bridge with the .125" floor. I got it on eBay. I think they're about $100 USD.


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## pondman (Jul 10, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> That isn't the headstock. It's just a piece of mahogany on the back of the neck to bring it up to the thickness of the body wings. Not really a precise joint is it?



OK , I thought you were just showing a kind of mock up for the head-stock.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

pondman said:


> OK , I thought you were just showing a kind of mock up for the head-stock.



Nah. this is just a flat piece on the back of the neck. The headstock is still going to have the stripes from the neck in it. So would I be ok to glue it like this?


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## MikeK (Jul 10, 2013)

I have a feeling this will cause more trouble once you start carving the neck.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

MikeK said:


> I have a feeling this will cause more trouble once you start carving the neck.



My emergency plan will still work if something happens while I'm carving it. Won't be as easy, but it will still work.


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## coolfool (Jul 10, 2013)

This your first build...right? you don't want to go in reverse,so keep your chin up and press on with project. you're already a sharp cooki cutter with the use of the wax paper. Carry on and worse case scenario, you will learn from it all,as I will learn from you. aaaahhh, tecnology coolfool


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## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

coolfool said:


> This your first build...right? you don't want to go in reverse,so keep your chin up and press on with project. you're already a sharp cooki cutter with the use of the wax paper. Carry on and worse case scenario, you will learn from it all,as I will learn from you. aaaahhh, tecnology coolfool



The wax paper was actually someone else's idea. I forget who though. Zoov, AwDeOh or Necromagnon I think.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

Alright, so this isn't the headstock. but this is one way to glue the headstock without doing what I did. you put some duct tape on it like a hinge, apply glue, put the headstock down on the glued part, clamp and it shouldn't move. 





















That wax paper thing you thought was cool, I forgot to do it. oops.


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## Necromagnon (Jul 10, 2013)

I think you still put too much glue.
Also, do you spread it all over the joint before putting both parts together? Because if not, it might be a cause of the crack you got, as it broke along the joint plane at some places.

And again, one important thing to know: having a thicker joint is not good. In fact, it's weaker than a "normal" joint.

But about the crack being a problem when carving, I don't think so, because there will be the headstock maintaining it all in place. So to allow the crack to reopen again, it would mean that the headstock unglued itself, or crack at a correct location allowing the crack propagation. And I'm very very sceptical about that (but that can always happen).


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 10, 2013)

I'm pretty sure I did use too much glue for the headstock. I also know that a thicker joint is weaker than a normal one. I think I understand what you said about the crack. Unless there's an opening in the headstock itself right where the crack on the joint is or the headstock comes unglued it won't open again. right?


----------



## Necromagnon (Jul 11, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> I'm pretty sure I did use too much glue for the headstock. I also know that a thicker joint is weaker than a normal one. I think I understand what you said about the crack. Unless there's an opening in the headstock itself right where the crack on the joint is or the headstock comes unglued it won't open again. right?


Yes, that's it (I realized that it might not be so clear after re-reading my previous post...  ). So I think it won't move again, or crack in another place.


----------



## AwDeOh (Jul 11, 2013)

I think what Necro is asking is whether you spread the glue out with a piece of card or something, so that it covers 100% of the surfaces you're gluing.


----------



## Necromagnon (Jul 11, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> I think what Necro is asking is whether you spread the glue out with a piece of card or something, so that it covers 100% of the surfaces you're gluing.


Exactly.

A video I've seen recently, sent by a friend:


At 1'45, you'll see how the glue is spread, and that there's just a very thin layer of glue, not more needed.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 11, 2013)

Yeah I spread the glue around.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 11, 2013)

The joint before sanding. 






















I haven't gotten rid of all this yet as my dad isn't home with some razor blades yet. 






and after taking it to the belt sander for a bit.

This is the only spot that looks like a bad joint. I'm not worried about it because it's not going to be visible when the guitar is done.






Everything else looks good though.


----------



## AwDeOh (Jul 11, 2013)

So the crack came out good then? I guess now you can see why we kept harping on about using more clamps.. you can NEVER have too many.

Loved that video Necro, it's always good to see a build like that in quick time, handy for me because I tend to get bogged down in one detail and lose perspective of the process as a whole.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 12, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> So the crack came out good then? I guess now you can see why we kept harping on about using more clamps.. you can NEVER have too many.
> 
> Loved that video Necro, it's always good to see a build like that in quick time, handy for me because I tend to get bogged down in one detail and lose perspective of the process as a whole.



I did use more clamps this time.  I'm hoping to get the headstock on sometime in the next few days.


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## muffinbutton (Jul 12, 2013)

I think I got it right this time. I *f*ucking better have.


----------



## AwDeOh (Jul 12, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> I think I got it right this time. I *f*ucking better have.



Now you're speaking like a guitar builder, mate


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 12, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Now you're speaking like a guitar builder, mate



 this was actually the third time. I stopped #2 before the glue even started to set because I could see it wasn't going to work.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 13, 2013)

Nailed it this time. well, mostly. I still need to do a bit more sanding and stuff but I'm happy with what I have for now. Except one thing. 






The lines don't match up right. I'm not doing this a 4th time though. 





Nailed it. 





I'm not worried about this little spot. It shouldn't show up once the neck is carved. 





This side didn't turn out as nice. I'm going to glue the little bit on the end down so it looks nice.


----------



## Necromagnon (Jul 13, 2013)

This joint looks way better. The part with the little gap will be removed, so that looks great. 
About the matching, it's not very easy. You have to use some tricks to line it up, like a side block, or some screws or something.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 13, 2013)

Necromagnon said:


> This joint looks way better. The part with the little gap will be removed, so that looks great.
> About the matching, it's not very easy. You have to use some tricks to line it up, like a side block, or some screws or something.



So I don't need to bother fixing it? And yeah. I'm doing a 7 string after this with a 7 piece neck. I'm just gonna do the one piece headstock for that. I've been meaning to start a thread for it but I don't have pictures of the stuff yet. I also need to finish re painting my bass...


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## Necromagnon (Jul 14, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> So I don't need to bother fixing it?


Just to be sure, you can try to measure the depth of the gap with a very thin thing (tooth pick, veneer, or something) and push it in the gap. Then mark the depth on this stuff, and report it on the front of the neck. Then, you'll see if the gap is deep enough to be seen when you'll make the shape.

But I think you don't have do matter about it.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 14, 2013)

Alright. I'll check tomorrow/later. Thanks. I'm going to New York City at the end of the month, sometime after that I hopefully will be getting a router. That should help speed stuff up.


----------



## crazygtr (Jul 15, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> Nailed it this time. well, mostly. I still need to do a bit more sanding and stuff but I'm happy with what I have for now. Except one thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Next time try something like this, it hides some misalignment:


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 16, 2013)

that looks ....ing awesome. and I was trying to avoid having to use a collar thing like that. next one is just going to be a one piece.


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## DistinguishedPapyrus (Jul 16, 2013)

I've had the same problem in the past with misalignment of the scarf joint... I managed to get it nearly perfect after some trial, I'll try to put it in words cause I didnt get any pics of the process, hope this helps. 


Dry fit the headstock and neck together exactly where it needs to be glued, and clamp it down, without glue at first. Now clamp a scrap piece to the back of the headstock, butted up against the side of the neck. This'll be temporarly in place for neck alignment until the glue is applied. remove the neck, spread the glue, place the neck back in place against the scrap piece and then clamp the neck solidly in place, and lastly remove the temporary scrap piece before the glue sets in. 

To do it this way the headstock needs to be a little wider than the neck, such as if the "ears" are glued in place first, or the neck is tapered first. 

Well anyway, I hope that describes the process, it worked great for my build.

Also, glue some sand paper to either a sheet of glass, piece of marble, table saw surface or something hard and flat like that. Use this to sand all your glue joints, it'll yield perfect results every time. (I got a piece of marble window sill material and spray adhesive to adhere the sand paper to from home depot)


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 16, 2013)

I'm not worried about the misalignment. I'll get it right next time. or at least closer. but the marble thing is a great idea. I'll see what I can do for that.


----------



## charlessalvacion (Jul 16, 2013)

Subscribed! Awesome thread Bro! \m/


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## muffinbutton (Jul 29, 2013)

Guess what I have?


































I finally got a ....ing router. 

When we had the huge storm that knocked the power out my dad and I went across the street to help pump out our neighbors basements so they didn't flood. one of them was flooded so our generator stayed there for most of the night until all the water went down. well the guy we were helping was the one that sold my dad the belt sander and bandsaw a while ago. we were already planning on buying this but he gave it to us for free for helping him with his basement.


----------



## AwDeOh (Jul 29, 2013)

Nice score dude. We don't get Craftsman here, but from what I gather it's a reputable brand.


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 29, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> Nice score dude. We don't get Craftsman here, but from what I gather it's a reputable brand.



Yeah. I tried it and it works great. I wish I had more bits for it. or at least one that would be useful for now. oh well. I guess I'll be going shopping soon.


----------



## DistinguishedPapyrus (Jul 29, 2013)

Very nice man, you'll find alot of neat stuff to do with a router, not to mention the quality of your builds will go way up. I have that exact same router table, it is real handy.

One thing I'll recommend to you, routers are made for precise final shaping type operations, not for bulky stuff. (ex: use a drill press to remove the majority of material from a neck pocket before using a router to clean up the edges and bring it to its final shape.)


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 29, 2013)

DistinguishedPapyrus said:


> Very nice man, you'll find alot of neat stuff to do with a router, not to mention the quality of your builds will go way up. I have that exact same router table, it is real handy.
> 
> One thing I'll recommend to you, routers are made for precise final shaping type operations, not for bulky stuff. (ex: use a drill press to remove the majority of material from a neck pocket before using a router to clean up the edges and bring it to its final shape.)



Well the neck pocket on this shouldn't be a problem cuz you know. neck through.  hopefully I'll be taking a trip to a hardware store sometime this week and grabbing some more bits for it.


----------



## charlessalvacion (Jul 30, 2013)

nice nice nice


----------



## muffinbutton (Jul 31, 2013)

So I got some bits today. But I don't have any pics yet. I got some stuff done today. but no pics of that either.


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## AwDeOh (Jul 31, 2013)




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## mman36 (Aug 1, 2013)

Just curious, because I'm interested in someday attempting this myself, but why exactly is a thicker joint weaker than a thinner/normal joint? 

Back on topic, I'm looking forward to seeing how this thing turns out. Keep it up!


----------



## muffinbutton (Aug 2, 2013)

Because the glue is strongest when it's in contact with both pieces of wood. I think.


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## Necromagnon (Aug 2, 2013)

Glue is a science in itself. And I know pretty much nothing about it, just that some glue are stronger with thicker joints, some with thinner. The 1st is the case of epoxy glue, and I think we can extrapolate it to resin/glue. The later is the case of cyano-acrylate and wood glue, works also for neoprene glues.
Further than this, I can't anything.


----------



## muffinbutton (Aug 15, 2013)

So I have some stuff on the way. Do carbon fiber rods go in parallel to the truss rod or are they angled?


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## muffinbutton (Aug 19, 2013)

So this is my router bit set. 






And today I got the truss rod channel done. 
















Is this little gap alright?


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## muffinbutton (Aug 21, 2013)

I was doing the dishes when suddenly the doorbell. 





figured this would work. 





turns out pans aren't the best for opening packages. (yeah I actually tried)





Indian rosewood from lmii.





carbon fiber rods, also from lmii





How far away from the truss rod should the CF rods be?


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## AwDeOh (Aug 21, 2013)

Depends on the neck profile. You want a happy medium between 'not too close', and not so far away that you risk carving into the CF channel when you shape the neck. It's easiest to work from a neck profile like in this pic, showing the truss rod:






If you're working from a profile like that, with a contour gauge, you minimize running into problems.


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## muffinbutton (Aug 21, 2013)

Alright, I know where I want them, is it ok to make a route like the one for the truss rod where it starts a little bit up the headstock?


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## AwDeOh (Aug 21, 2013)

Sure. Read this thread:

Carbon Fiber Neck Reinforcement? - Discussion Forums - Banjo Hangout






As the poster of that pic said, it'll reinforce the neck at the scarf joint, you'll just have to cut the rods flush with the headstock.


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## muffinbutton (Aug 21, 2013)

I plan to have them in a bit further than the truss rod though, I could glue some more mahogany back in the hole, but would the scarf joint be weakened at all?


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## muffinbutton (Aug 21, 2013)

So will I be ok filling the ends at the headstock with some pieces of mahogany?






Two more questions about the truss rod. 
1. will regular bathtub caulk work?
2. should I wrap it with tape before I do that?


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## crazygtr (Aug 21, 2013)

I think you went too far (wide) on the headstock end, check with your plans before anymore work is done.


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## muffinbutton (Aug 22, 2013)

crazygtr said:


> I think you went too far (wide) on the headstock end, check with your plans before anymore work is done.



on the truss rod route? that's so I can turn the allen key.


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## muffinbutton (Aug 22, 2013)

this is for some of the guys in chat. 





actual update part. 










tomorrow I'll do some more stuff.


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## ECGuitars (Aug 22, 2013)

How wide of a nut are you doing on that guitar..? It really looks like you're going to be cutting into those when you taper the neck down and go to carve it. If I were you I would double check everything before you go gluing those rods in and the fretboard on, I'd hate to see see you glue all that up only to find disaster later man. Otherwise everything looks awesome, keep it up!


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## muffinbutton (Aug 22, 2013)

ECGuitars said:


> How wide of a nut are you doing on that guitar..? It really looks like you're going to be cutting into those when you taper the neck down and go to carve it. If I were you I would double check everything before you go gluing those rods in and the fretboard on, I'd hate to see see you glue all that up only to find disaster later man. Otherwise everything looks awesome, keep it up!



I plan to use a nut that is big enough that that doesn't happen. lol. I'll just add 3mm or so to the side of each slot. and if it's less than 55mm, i'll use a 55mm nut. I think it should be fine either way. the CF rods are in the maohgany strips, and the nut should still have some of the outside pieces of maple after tapering.

EDIT: I just measured. from the outside edge of one route, to the outside edge of the other it's 43mm. I should be fine.


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## ECGuitars (Aug 22, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> I plan to use a nut that is big enough that that doesn't happen. lol. I'll just add 3mm or so to the side of each slot. and if it's less than 55mm, i'll use a 55mm nut. I think it should be fine either way. the CF rods are in the maohgany strips, and the nut should still have some of the outside pieces of maple after tapering.
> 
> EDIT: I just measured. from the outside edge of one route, to the outside edge of the other it's 43mm. I should be fine.



OKay perfect! The perspective of the picture makes it look WAY wider than that, keep on truckin' on!


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## crazygtr (Aug 22, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> on the truss rod route? that's so I can turn the allen key.



No, I'm talking about the C/F rods. It looks like you'll hit them when carving the back contour.


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## muffinbutton (Aug 23, 2013)

crazygtr said:


> No, I'm talking about the C/F rods. It looks like you'll hit them when carving the back contour.



they should be fine, there's plenty of room on the outside and they aren't very tall.


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## muffinbutton (Aug 24, 2013)

My usual "enough clamps" picture. I think I have enough this time though.


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## crazygtr (Aug 24, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> My usual "enough clamps" picture. I think I have enough this time though.



I would advise to put the clamps on the edges of the fretboard right in the profile line where is needed for a good tight seam, you're applying good pressure but just in the middle of the board where there is no need to (right above T/R).


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## muffinbutton (Aug 24, 2013)

crazygtr said:


> I would advise to put the clamps on the edges of the fretboard right in the profile line where is needed for a good tight seam, you're applying good pressure but just in the middle of the board where there is no need to (right above T/R).



i could put them on the sides, but those are pretty much all my clamps. i could put half on each side but would that still be enough pressure?


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## muffinbutton (Aug 24, 2013)

would this arrangement be better?


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## crazygtr (Aug 24, 2013)

Yes, that would work better, more clamps would be ideal if available but, if not, thicker cauls would spread the clamping force more evenly.


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## muffinbutton (Aug 24, 2013)

crazygtr said:


> Yes, that would work better, more clamps would be ideal if available but, if not, thicker cauls would spread the clamping force more evenly.



I asked my dad to bring home any other clamps he has tomorrow. so i guess I'll wait till then to do it.


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## crazygtr (Aug 24, 2013)

muffinbutton said:


> I asked my dad to bring home any other clamps he has tomorrow. so i guess I'll wait till then to do it.



Good Call.


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## muffinbutton (Sep 2, 2013)

So when I was waiting for clamps for the fretboard, I accidentally this. 





and then a few days ago i did this. 





and this.


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## muffinbutton (Sep 30, 2013)

So I got something done. 










I'm really happy with it. It looks awesome and I can't even feel the transition when I move my hand over it. (I sanded it down to be like that of course)


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## crazygtr (Sep 30, 2013)

Good to see you back at this.


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## Chuck (Oct 27, 2013)

How's this going?!?!


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## muffinbutton (Oct 27, 2013)

Haven't done much on it in a while. I got the taper done but I haven't done anything on it after that.


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## LanguageOfStrings (Oct 27, 2013)

cool topic, can't wait to see more of your work


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## Taylor (Nov 30, 2013)

Any updates for us?


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## muffinbutton (Nov 30, 2013)

Probably not going to have updates until after Christmas and my birthday when I have at least some money for parts.


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