# Whole band live through laptop and interface: has anyone done it?



## Robrecht (Jan 29, 2013)

Not that I'm actually planning to do this for now, but I find the idea interesting.

At our last band practice, we were one guy short and I had my laptop (ASUS Ux31) and audio interface (Akai EIE Pro) with me, so we decided to leave our half stacks in storage for once and work on a couple of tracks in Ableton Live. The other guitarist, the basist and I all three plugged our instruments directly into one channel each of the interface and played through ReValver and LePou ampsims. Even with a good amount of effects and some additional tracks running (pre-programmed drums and keyboards), there was no noticeable latency.

This got me thinking. If our singer ran his mike into the interface too, and our drummer connected his digital kit to my laptop's usb port to play the EZDrummer plugin directly, the whole band would come out of that little box and in some ways sound better -- more controllable at least -- than through the traditional setup.

Ok, it would be as un-metal as it gets and the laptop/interface combo would probably not be quite reliable enough for gigging yet, but there would be some enticing advantages.

The whole set could be perfectly mixed and mastered beforehand and the complete band's sound could be fed to the venue's PA through two output jacks (left and right channel), with two other channels being fed to us for monitoring and clicktracks. We could pre-program all instrumental and vocal effects to the smallest detail and never have to worry about foot switches anymore. Lugging around amps and cabs and drums would be a thing of the past. We'd have total control over volume -- our band did a series of crossover concerts with classical musicians some time ago and the sheer volume of the drums and cranked amps made things difficult at times.

So, has anyone done this? Is it the future? What do you guys think?


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## GunpointMetal (Jan 29, 2013)

I've been wishing I could find a way to do this reliably for years....still don't trust computers enough, but the idea is brilliant, and I mean, this is essentially what alot of new digital mixers are doing, minus the amp modeling...I think someone told me you can automate effects, etc on the new Behringer X32....its getting close. Who cares if its un-metal...your band would sound better than everybody, at every concert!


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## Robrecht (Jan 29, 2013)

GunpointMetal said:


> I've been wishing I could find a way to do this reliably for years....still don't trust computers enough, but the idea is brilliant, and I mean, this is essentially what alot of new digital mixers are doing, minus the amp modeling...I think someone told me you can automate effects, etc on the new Behringer X32....its getting close. Who cares if its un-metal...your band would sound better than everybody, at every concert!



Exactly!

I forgot to mention we're already planning to have a laptop and interface running along for pre-recorded synths (with a clicktrack). I'm hoping to make it control my Boss GT-10 patches through midi as well, which in turn switch the channels on the 5150II I'm using, so that would already offer some of the convenience.

But the idea of running _everything_ through the laptop and having full control of every aspect of the sound is just... wow. It would effectively mean that all the tweaking we do to get our demo recordings sounding good would translate directly to the stage as well. Ok, computers probably aren't quite there just yet reliability-wise, but a guy can dream.


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## concertjunkie (Jan 31, 2013)

I feel that the right computer (even laptop) could handle this...
high end processor (i7 quad core)
8+gb ram (16gb..why not?)
SSD drive (fast access times and much higher shock resistant than a mechanical drive)
run the interface through firewire for faster data transfer speeds 


there are some bands (Periphery, i know for certain) that have been making that switch to no pedal boards live and letting the laptop control changing presets (i believe its done through midi?) 

with the right equipment.... this is definitely possible


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## Robrecht (Jan 31, 2013)

concertjunkie said:


> there are some bands (Periphery, i know for certain) that have been making that switch to no pedal boards live and letting the laptop control changing presets (i believe its done through midi?)



Cool. That's what we're actually hoping to do soon: we're currently rehearsing with a dedicated 'band' laptop for prerecorded synths, with a clicktrack fed to the drummers headphones, and I'm working on getting it to control my Boss GT-10 (through midi, indeed). Bye bye pedalboards! 

As for the more ambitious plan -- i.e., having a single computer+interface generate and process the sound of the whole band in real time with amp and drum sims -- my own laptop has a Core i7 processor and an SSD (but only USB and 4G of ram), so that's a good part of your estimated requirements covered. It performed surprisingly well during our rehearsal experiment (two guitars and one bass separately processed through ReValver/LePou plugins, with synths and programmed drums running alongside, and some additional real time effects). It's the reliability I'm still worried about: for gigging, it has to work every time, all the time. Also, that laptop is also my work instrument, so I don't want to submit it to circumstances on the road and on stage. But I can definitely see it happening in the near future.


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## concertjunkie (Jan 31, 2013)

Robrecht said:


> Cool. That's what we're actually hoping to do soon: we're currently rehearsing with a dedicated 'band' laptop for prerecorded synths, with a clicktrack fed to the drummers headphones, and I'm working on getting it to control my Boss GT-10 (through midi, indeed). Bye bye pedalboards!
> 
> As for the more ambitious plan -- i.e., having a single computer+interface generate and process the sound of the whole band in real time with amp and drum sims -- my own laptop has a Core i7 processor and an SSD (but only USB and 4G of ram), so that's a good part of your estimated requirements covered. It performed surprisingly well during our rehearsal experiment (two guitars and one bass separately processed through ReValver/LePou plugins, with synths and programmed drums running alongside, and some additional real time effects). It's the reliability I'm still worried about: for gigging, it has to work every time, all the time. Also, that laptop is also my work instrument, so I don't want to submit it to circumstances on the road and on stage. But I can definitely see it happening in the near future.





the bump up in ram will definitely give your computer breathing room (and less likely to crash) although plugins could crash at any given moment under the oddest of circumstances :/

would be advised to make a "band" template with all your settings and setup saved, so IF it did crash, you wouldnt be down for long

i would also suggest that you either have a backup SSD or if you are feeling rather ambitious, keeping two drives, one for work/home, and another band (SSD)

SSD drives have a limited amount of read and writes... until it is bricked. Luckily the average life is ~5 years now (but like any mechanical piece, this can be more or less, so make a backup IMAGE of your computer often, weekly or biweekly if possible!)

i've read that there are some software indicators that can estimate about how many more read and write cycles the drive has before it goes into the abyss
havent searched down that road yet until my SSD comes in 

every month or so, blow it out with canned air with laptop off
keep those dust bunnies out


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## _detox (Feb 1, 2013)




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## GatherTheArsenal (Feb 2, 2013)

Robrecht said:


> This got me thinking. If our singer ran his mike into the interface too, and our drummer connected his digital kit to my laptop's usb port to play the EZDrummer plugin directly, the whole band would come out of that little box and in some ways sound better -- more controllable at least -- than through the traditional setup.
> 
> Ok, it would be as un-metal as it gets and the laptop/interface combo would probably not be quite reliable enough for gigging yet, but there would be some enticing advantages.
> 
> ...



Absolutely, try using Mainstage if you have a Mac kicking around anywhere. It's pretty impressive from what i can tell but alas, i have never used it so i can't speak for it in that manner.

Watch this though, Nine Inch Nails have been using the approach that you're thinking about for years now. The future is already here


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## TravTrav (Feb 3, 2013)

I run my entire band through my laptop and interface on ableton. We play electronica and jazz, so it's a bit different, but I still use Superior Drummer for our drummer and plug in all manner of instruments and mics for stuff... feedback control is incredible in ableton, I absolutely drench alot of the instruments in ping pong delays and reverbs and my vocals are pretty much wet signal only and there are no feedback problems.

I even record live too... totally reliable if you're willing to spend the money on a laptop that can definately handle it.. and dedicate that laptop to purely for live use, so a sacrfice must be made there... to reduce the possibility of any crashes or glitches, but it's amazing to do live, quick easy setup, on the spot mixing and the same level of control over effects etc... I absolutely encourage you to take it up!


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## Robrecht (Feb 4, 2013)

concertjunkie said:


> SSD drives have a limited amount of read and writes... until it is bricked. Luckily the average life is ~5 years now (but like any mechanical piece, this can be more or less, so make a backup IMAGE of your computer often, weekly or biweekly if possible!)
> 
> i've read that there are some software indicators that can estimate about how many more read and write cycles the drive has before it goes into the abyss
> havent searched down that road yet until my SSD comes in
> ...



That's some pretty good advice, regardless of what the laptop is used for. Thanks!



_detox said:


>





GatherTheArsenal said:


> Absolutely, try using Mainstage if you have a Mac kicking around anywhere. It's pretty impressive from what i can tell but alas, i have never used it so i can't speak for it in that manner.
> 
> Watch this though, Nine Inch Nails have been using the approach that you're thinking about for years now. The future is already here




Wow, both those video's are amazing. The first setup is entirely out of my league, but MainStage really surprises me: I looked it up and it's only $29.99 and, to me, at first sight looks like it's in the GarageBand league (i.e., decent but non-professional). But if it can handle NIN... 



TravTrav said:


> I run my entire band through my laptop and interface on ableton. We play electronica and jazz, so it's a bit different, but I still use Superior Drummer for our drummer and plug in all manner of instruments and mics for stuff... feedback control is incredible in ableton, I absolutely drench alot of the instruments in ping pong delays and reverbs and my vocals are pretty much wet signal only and there are no feedback problems.
> 
> I even record live too... totally reliable if you're willing to spend the money on a laptop that can definately handle it.. and dedicate that laptop to purely for live use, so a sacrfice must be made there... to reduce the possibility of any crashes or glitches, but it's amazing to do live, quick easy setup, on the spot mixing and the same level of control over effects etc... I absolutely encourage you to take it up!



Cool, that is exactly what I was thinking of and you're doing it already! I guess our needs aren't even as high as your band's: two guitars and one bass running through ReValver/LePou, EZdrummer played live, one vocal mike with a bit of reverb or delay, one or two synth tracks and perhaps a couple of additional overall effects, that's it. Now to get a dedicated band laptop that can handle that stuff...

Well actually, I don't think we're gonna make the plunge yet (it would be a big change for our drummer especially to give up his fantastic acoustic kit and confine himself to the digital one) but for special occasions, like the metal/contemporary classical crossover project we did, it definitely starts to sound like a viable option now.


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## WhiteWalls (Feb 5, 2013)

I had this in my mind for some time (since I started doing sound at live shows) and I'm glad that somebody actually pulled it off. That Camryn video is absolutely outrageous and I'm almost unhappy that I'll never see that band live (they are opening for One Direction so yeah ) just to see it in action.

The part I'm missing right now is an 8 input interface. My laptop has no firewire port so that limits the available options a lot, but even without using V-drums, it could be pretty doable to just feed every guitar, bass and vocal track into the computer and then the only thing you need to do is level it with the drums.

As soon as I manage to put together the stuff I need to try it out I will certainly keep you updated with the results!


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## chimp_spanner (Feb 6, 2013)

Yeah I've thought about this a lot. Considering that when I record, I'm effectively already running this setup (live guitar processing by Amplitube or POD Farm or whatever, Superior Drummer connected to a TD11) and I work for hours at a go, days at a time, without any hiccups, there's no reason that it shouldn't work live apart from things like mechanical failure caused by vibrations or excessive heat/moisture/etc. I'd probably want to use a laptop with FireWire, as I haven't used a USB interface yet that would get me latency as low as I have with my ProFire 610.


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## WhiteWalls (Feb 6, 2013)

Does anybody have an idea if there's a way to reliably use a Firewire interface with a non-firewire laptop for real-time audio processing?
The common firewire-usb adapters obviously don't work for this, and I've heard about firewire cards/adapters to use in the expresscard slot, has anyone tried them?


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## mike90t09 (Feb 7, 2013)

My friend is in a band where him and the other guitarist plug in to his laptop and play out through the PA lol no heads or cabs anywhere on stage.


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## JazzandMetal (Feb 8, 2013)

Periphery said in Guitar world that all their patches and everything is controlled by their laptops. They also use Axe-FX though, so is that different?


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## axxessdenied (Feb 9, 2013)

God damnit. Technology fucking rocks!


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## TravTrav (Feb 10, 2013)

The question of laptop failure onstage can be eliminated now really... I own a 3.5 year old macbook pro, 3gb ram, 250gb hdd and i run ableton, 8 inputs, electronic beats and synths and bass, midi drums, midi guitar, keyboards and midi controllers... and record on this setup, had one hiccup at a gig out bush when the guys turned off the wrong generator and caused everything to go a bit wonky for a few minutes, once they pushed the on button it all came back perfectly... so given that MBP and other pc laptops of the same or better specs are so damned cheap and software like ableton is built and famed for it's live stability it pretty much eliminates that old "blue screen of error" fear that was common in the early naughties with amp and effects simulators. I'm now getting into my ipad heavily for scratch recording and beat making and it's awesome... I'm actually composing an album right now with my 8 string on garageband for iPad, it's freaken great to work with my setup on my bed... 1 lead, 1 headphones, 1 guitar, 1 ipad = recording studio!


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## TemjinStrife (Feb 11, 2013)

At the gigs I play at, I couldn't do it. Vocal-only PAs and small spaces = insufficient sound coverage and risk of putting an $800 headstock through a $1500 MacBook.


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## robare99 (Feb 11, 2013)

_detox said:


>




That's pretty neat!!!


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## TravTrav (Feb 11, 2013)

TemjinStrife said:


> At the gigs I play at, I couldn't do it. Vocal-only PAs and small spaces = insufficient sound coverage and risk of putting an $800 headstock through a $1500 MacBook.


Headstock? you mean amp head?
I've done it in venues like this...
typically though I wouldn't run a head through an interface... the whole idea of interface to FOH is to eliminate the need for heads, cabs, cables and all that yea?

when you use a setup like this you also need a decent headphone pre and in ear monitors or headphones or something, because foldbacks aren't provided at smaller venues. I luckily don't have that problem anymore, I did my years of playing those venues every night and have since upgraded, but we've been using in ears for about 2 years


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## Flemmigan (Feb 12, 2013)

TravTrav said:


> Headstock? you mean amp head?
> I've done it in venues like this...
> typically though I wouldn't run a head through an interface... the whole idea of interface to FOH is to eliminate the need for heads, cabs, cables and all that yea?
> 
> when you use a setup like this you also need a decent headphone pre and in ear monitors or headphones or something, because foldbacks aren't provided at smaller venues. I luckily don't have that problem anymore, I did my years of playing those venues every night and have since upgraded, but we've been using in ears for about 2 years



I think he meant accidentally hitting the laptop with the guitar and causing damage to both because of insufficient space on stage. Excellent point about in-ears.


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## hairychris (Feb 15, 2013)

TravTrav said:


> Headstock? you mean amp head?
> I've done it in venues like this...
> typically though I wouldn't run a head through an interface... the whole idea of interface to FOH is to eliminate the need for heads, cabs, cables and all that yea?
> 
> when you use a setup like this you also need a decent headphone pre and in ear monitors or headphones or something, because foldbacks aren't provided at smaller venues. I luckily don't have that problem anymore, I did my years of playing those venues every night and have since upgraded, but we've been using in ears for about 2 years



No, what he means is the small gig situation where vocals/kick are miked but you aren't putting amps through the PA - basically a venue with a shit PA. Basement shows ftw!

Most of the shows that I've played at wouldn't lend themselves to the laptop -> FOH approach either.

If you're playing venues that are guaranteed to have great PA (and monitors if you aren't in-earing) then this solution, or the AxeFx without power-amp & cab, are more viable.


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## noob_pwn (Feb 15, 2013)

I think it's a great idea in concept but you might find at smaller venues the PA is not sufficient to make this work well. In those instances the traditional way works best. You will be at the mercy of whatever the venue has. You also won't be able to have the mix referenced and adjusted for the FOH whilst playing, which is extremely important and hence why bigger bands pay good money for sound techs. There is an art to mixing a live band and although similar knowledge may be applied to a recorded mix, it's a different animal.


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## Adeamus (Feb 15, 2013)

TemjinStrife said:


> At the gigs I play at, I couldn't do it. Vocal-only PAs and small spaces = insufficient sound coverage and risk of putting an $800 headstock through a $1500 MacBook.



With my band that was a concern, so we just bought a 2008 Black Macbook and put and SSD into it. It cost about $400 total. 

Besides, Macbooks are a lot sturdier then people give them credit for and if you're willing to search a bit you can find a great deal on a used slightly older model that will in all honest probably do everything you need and then some.


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