# If Misha Ordered An Oni (Oni Content, Obviously)



## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

Man, what a ride this one was! I’ll start with a quick photo:







So this is my new Oni 8-string. I think I placed this order back in 2014? I remember it was immediately after Elq did his NGD (also, where TF is that guy?). I had been considering Oni for a while and his extreme boasting put me over the edge. Elq had tried just about every boutique maker around at the time, so for him to give a review that was not just positive, but gushing, was enough to convince me.

In an effort to summarize what happened next, it was like:

me >> I want carbon fiber
Dan >> There are many reasons I don’t do CF anymore
me >> But I reeeeally want carbon fiber
Dan >> Okay

<— 2-3 years later of developing new CF methods to fix old problems —>

Dan >> CF is done
Dan (5 months later) >> The twin CF of your guitar is having adhesion issues with the top over time, so we have to ditch the CF. I have new very high quality auto paint.
me >> Okay, what about this custom sky blue skyline thing.

<— 1-2 years later —>

Dan >> Blue is done. Behold.
me >> Amazing!
Dan (1 week later) >> Actually accident happened during final photoshoot and there is a chip. It must be refinished.

<— 1 year later —>

Dan >> Blue is done again. Take it. Take it please. GTFO.


That is to say it’s been a very, very long journey and there are many other things that popped up along the way that just made it seem like this guitar is cursed and would never actually happen. Dan has been phenomenal in terms of customer service and I have honestly not met any builder out there that is such a perfectionist. But perfectionism and bad luck are not things that mix well.

PROS:

On to the guitar itself, on the prog metal side of things, this is an absolutely killer guitar. Craftsmanship is at the highest tier (for me that is Huber - Hartung - Ken Lawrence level). It has possibly the best setup I’ve ever had out of the box and playability is really amazing. I had only recently acquired an Aristides 060s, and generally thought that, because of the construction method, that it’s a guitar whose playability is really a step above pretty much everything out there. But this is basically as good — it’d be splitting hairs to actually say one is better than the other. The heel is not as seamless from an aesthetic point of view as some of Dan’s older contours, but functionally it really is.

The design itself is not something that has been conveyed well in most pics out there. The body is radiused and the backside is fairly similar to a Parker Fly. I’m going to try to be the guy that depicts this accurately below. It’s not “form fitting”, but it makes the guitar feel closer to you.

In terms of sound, the bridge pickup here is “a good” sound. I think I would have preferred it voiced a bit more aggressively, but it’s very tight and clear, with a little bit of a “round”-er tone like how most Ibanez setup are voiced (and less Meshuggah). But the neck pickup is phenomenal for an 8-string! Overall there’s great balance to them, but to have such a smooth neck pickup at this scale, that I feel comfortable soloing on, is very impressive. I was sort of thinking about not getting a neck pickup, but this has me rethinking how much I’d use it.

The case is super cool. Dan makes them. They’re surprisingly small for a flight case and the corners are much smaller than the larger ball caps, and are easier to balance. I should have taken a shot of the foam under the guitar as that is carved out nicely too.

Oh, and the killswitch glows blue.

CONS:

The only thing I’m not sold on may be a bit of a surprise — it’s the color. It’s a great color and I’m sure a lot of people would prefer it over what I had in mind, but it just came out a bit darker than what I wanted and the tiny metallicness is so subtle that it might as well not exist. From a builder’s pov you can imagine what it’d be like to refinish this guitar a 4th time, so I kind of understand it, and it’s not that far off, but I’d have been really ecstatic had it been closer to the reference color.

The only other thing I’m not sold on is the scale. It’s huge — 29” or maybe even longer. I think because of the design it’s actually somewhat reasonable, but down in 1-5 fret range, I can’t really manage fast stuff across five frets.

TL;DR:

But overall I’m super impressed. And right now the AUD is in the dumps, which means that for American buyers, this guitar bought today is surprisingly affordable. Basically more affordable than an Aristides, which I’ll compare to mostly in terms of spec, and much more affordable than Huber/Hartung/KL, which I’ll compare to in terms of craftsmanship. So honestly if you like the design and you want a fast playing ERG guitar, this just seems like a no-brainer right now. I’m trying to pair down and even I’m kind of like…well, at these prices…maybe a 7-string? But Dan probably deserves better customers than me so strongest endorsement I can muster: check out Oni guitars. His lead times are in the 1-2 year zone, and hopefully with some health issues sorted they’ll come down a bit.

Pics:


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 3, 2019)

Absolute work of art.

Hats off to Dan for making that thing, but most of all dealing with you. 

Oh, congrats and stuff.


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## noise in my mind (Oct 3, 2019)

10/10


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## Pietjepieter (Oct 3, 2019)

Wow just wow.... it's a thing of true beauty!!

Only question how does the pickup switching work? is their a push push or something like that on the volume?

HNGD!


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 3, 2019)

Y u no get curved frets.


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## IbanezDaemon (Oct 3, 2019)

Very cool! Really love the styling on this one. Interesting read as well.


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## thraxil (Oct 3, 2019)

narad said:


> me >> I want carbon fiber
> Dan >> There are many reasons I don’t do CF anymore



Pretty sure I had that exact conversation with Dan at around the same time. I didn't push him further though (and then I got into planning a big international move and backed off entirely from ordering an Oni because I knew my life would be a mess for a while).


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 3, 2019)

Happy NGD!!! She's a stunner for sure!

You don't make it easy for builders do you haha


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## StevenC (Oct 3, 2019)

narad said:


> But Dan probably deserves better customers than me


It's not just Dan.

HNGD


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

A couple more pics. Some of the CF remains, in the logo, truss rod, and back panel:






And regarding the heel, so this is where my hand slides up to pretty naturally with basically no change at all from any other point on the neck (besides the weird angle holding it for the pic):






And where are my fingers? Way up here:






On another note, I have been trying to figure out exactly what I'm perceiving about this guitar that seems different. There's a few things going on, but one I think I overlooked initially was the sustain. It is insane. I'm not talking about the duration, but if I hit any of the lower strings and count to 10, the pulsing of the string sounds indistinguishable from when I first hit it. That energy really stays in the note very strongly before it begins to decay. Could be a side effect of the scale length I suppose.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 3, 2019)

Hey @narad any way you could post a full spec run down?


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Absolute work of art.
> 
> Hats off to Dan for making that thing, but most of all dealing with you.



Yea, Yea. I've gotten better, but deep down I'm still just as nitpicky and indecisive as ever. Well, maybe not that deep.




Pietjepieter said:


> Only question how does the pickup switching work? is their a push push or something like that on the volume?



The knobs are 1 volume, 1 blend. It's the first time I'm trying it out. Kind of a dumb idea for this guitar given the unlikely nature of using in-between tones on a 29"+ 8-string, but I wanted to try something that didn't use the 3-way. If I had to do it over again I would have tried to get the killswitch to be a latching pickup selector. Both ditching the 3-way and adding the killswitch were really just aesthetic things I wanted to try.



diagrammatiks said:


> Y u no get curved frets.




I don't like the look and functionally believe straight multiscale to be compensation enough for me.



StevenC said:


> It's not just Dan.
> 
> HNGD



Hey man, I've been on Ola's case for update pics on M2M #100 for a year and a half now, on a guitar that's probably 3-4 years overdue already. It goes both ways!


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

Some sad photos of Onis that would never be. In the original the idea was to complement the blue killswitch with the bold headstock logo and color:





















Then the 2nd incarnation seemed a bit brighter to me:






(This was the ref car for the 2nd-3rd versions):


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Hey @narad any way you could post a full spec run down?



Not entirely sure how accurate this wound up being -- my spec note was last edited Nov 2013! Obviously the CF stuff didn't work out:


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## Adieu (Oct 3, 2019)

Just short of SIX YEARS, and yet far from axe-murdering the guy, you sing his praises?????


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

Adieu said:


> Just short of SIX YEARS, and yet far from axe-murdering the guy, you sing his praises?????



I think of it like this. Here's an alternate reality:

me >> I want carbon fiber
Dan >> There are many reasons I don’t do CF anymore
me >> But I reeeeally want carbon fiber
Dan >> Reeeeally no.

<— 2-3 years later guitar is delivered —>

Like I'm not going to rag on a guy for unexpected fallout that occurred solely _because he was trying to accommodate a customer's wishes_. Plus at the time he legit quoted me like 5 years.

Also you can't axe-murder an Australian. You remember how big Crocodile Dundee's knife was? Can you imagine the size of their axes??


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## lewis (Oct 3, 2019)

For the love of god.
Everywhere you look in these pics is just amazing.

The Oni is incredible. Amps incredible. Decorating incredible. Neatness incredible haha


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## Albake21 (Oct 3, 2019)

lewis said:


> For the love of god.
> Everywhere you look in these pics is just amazing.
> 
> The Oni is incredible. Amps incredible. Decorating incredible. Neatness incredible haha


Seriously, I was more awed with narad's place and amp collection compared to a custom Oni haha

Love the guitar though, HNGD!


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## Randy (Oct 3, 2019)

The color is perfect, stop complaining!


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## oniduder (Oct 3, 2019)

wow cool, i'm impressed you got him to try to do carbon fiber at all, the guitar looks nice i must say

glad you're happy with it

m


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## Pietjepieter (Oct 3, 2019)

narad said:


> The knobs are 1 volume, 1 blend. It's the first time I'm trying it out. Kind of a dumb idea for this guitar given the unlikely nature of using in-between tones on a 29"+ 8-string, but I wanted to try something that didn't use the 3-way. If I had to do it over again I would have tried to get the killswitch to be a latching pickup selector. Both ditching the 3-way and adding the killswitch were really just aesthetic things I wanted to try.



Interesting layout to have a blend knob, I have seen it sometimes on bass guitars, never on a guitar. I thing it is quite intresting tone wise, but quick switch between neck and the bridge might be a problem I suppose! Thinking about it, it would be interesting to have a three way switch that is bridge - blend - neck. Than you can do the blend and also switch quickly when going from bridge to neck.
Kill switch is cool too! Only thing I would have really added is a coil split, love split coil sound on the bridge pickup on the low strings with a 8!

Anyway super cool axe! digging all of it!


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## Fred the Shred (Oct 3, 2019)

STFU, man - it looks glorious!

As for the whole "OMG HE TOOK 6 YEARS" thing... no he didn't. He didn't want to go through with an idea given past experiences, narad persuaded him, he tried to find a way to achieve narad's very specific results after a lot of that and then decided to use a more reliable alternative give how he wasn't pleased with the results after proposing said approach to his customer. The end.

Dan is a star of a guy and one hell of a luthier, so it would take a massive bellend to be hostile towards him.


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## Seabeast2000 (Oct 3, 2019)

Nice axe. Love the epic Scope Creep tale.


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## Avedas (Oct 3, 2019)

Man your living room is big


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## BigViolin (Oct 3, 2019)

Flat. Out. Epic.

Hell of a tale man, NGD thread delivers.

Congrats!!


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## wannabguitarist (Oct 3, 2019)

Excellent color choice. It's always nice to see new Oni's pop up.


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## Vyn (Oct 3, 2019)

HNGD! Have seriously contemplating ordering one of these as they are about the only custom option that's affordable over here.


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

Pietjepieter said:


> Thinking about it, it would be interesting to have a three way switch that is bridge - blend - neck. Than you can do the blend and also switch quickly when going from bridge to neck.



That's a pretty cool idea. For me the quick switches aren't necessary these days.



Avedas said:


> Man your living room is big



I thought you were trolling until I caught the location lol. Yea, it's big by Tokyo standards but the apartment only has two rooms: the one you can shit in and the other one.


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## Paul McAleer (Oct 3, 2019)

No dude, that color is a PRO


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## Hollowway (Oct 3, 2019)

10/10 would (will) buy (if you ever sell it!)

and about the 6 years thing - it’s not horribly unusual. I’ve been waiting far longer than that for my KxK. It’s not ideal, but the high end shops are longer, and there are often things that delay it (like in this case).


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## dpm (Oct 3, 2019)

This guitar almost killed me

To put a little perspective on the time frame and complications -

The initial time frame quoted was looong because I had a few life things going on including a baby on the way, the death of my mother and the impending death of my father. At that time I was only taking orders under the condition that customers were happy to wait.

IIRC the initial plan didn't involve carbon at all, but finding a figured top to Narad's standards wasn't happening so I caved to the carbon idea again. I'm not blaming Narad for this, it's my own stubborn refusal to let the material beat me that made me agree to it.

Version 1 was done within the time frame. Narad wasn't convinced about the burst on the edges, I wasn't 100% happy with a little sinking of the clear coat into the carbon weave. Incidentally, by this point I'm working for free, if you want to start looking at things from that perspective.

I decided, in my idiotic perfectionism, to do the carbon over again, this time first molding it into the body contours in reverse, then gluing the pre-shaped carbon cap on. This involved making a reverse mold of the top shape then using a resin infusion method for the carbon fibre. It worked better than the initial method of applying carbon directly over the shaped body. It's also an incredible amount of work for a single use. Again, my own choice, I wanted to beat this thing.

Just as I'm getting to this stage I find out that the secret twin of this instrument is having very slight issues with finish adhesion (I started with two bodies in case of trouble). Really subtle stuff only visible at certain angles and seemingly depending on the weather. I think it might have something to do with carbon being extremely heat conductive, maybe. Doesn't matter, that guitar is just about refinished too. The last thing I want with a customer as particular as Narad, who also isn't local to me, is a finish issue potentially flaring up in 2 years time.

So then we're onto the cursed blue, that gets done, everything is strung up. I had it on a slightly modified stand for photos, it was sitting there for a good 10 minutes while I tried a bunch of camera settings and then for seemingly no reason it just fell off the stand sideways and I had to refinish, again

Oh, the sustain thing - it's primarily the carbon fiber lamination inside the neck, but other things also factor in. That also effects pitch stability on heavy attack. I'll happily keep putting carbon inside guitars, just not on the outside


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

dpm said:


> I'll happily keep putting carbon inside guitars, just not on the outside



Pleeeease?


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 3, 2019)

narad said:


> Pleeeease?



Let the good man be!


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## spudmunkey (Oct 3, 2019)

dpm said:


> I'll happily keep putting carbon inside guitars, just not on the outside





narad said:


> Pleeeease?


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

Honestly I think the bold solid or metallic colors suit the shape better than the CF that would-have-been, with the burst and all that, so I'm just kidding around. I'll always lust after this though:


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 3, 2019)

narad said:


> Honestly I think the bold solid or metallic colors suit the shape better than the CF that would-have-been, with the burst and all that, so I'm just kidding around. I'll always lust after this though:



Were you really going to ruin that with a burst?


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Were you really going to ruin that with a burst?



The burst was an unwanted but necessary fix for the CF revamp. I can't quite remember the details -- something about the edges of the old ones being a bit rough -- maybe Dan can say more. Though I've seen some really thin bursts on the edges of modulus CF basses that looked fine.


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## ramses (Oct 3, 2019)

I find your lack of curved-frets disturbing.

Honest question: why the insistence with CF?


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## dpm (Oct 3, 2019)

There was a light burst to blend the edges into the sides. When I took pictures they either made the burst look huge with the clear coat looking great, or the burst looked tiny but the clear looked like shit


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## narad (Oct 3, 2019)

ramses said:


> I find your lack of curved-frets disturbing.
> 
> Honest question: why the insistence with CF?



Cool Factor.

I mean, I think in 2013 I was just wrapping up my PhD, saw the glimmer of a real job and salary in the distance, and probably had like 8 custom build deposits going on at the same time. In that situation, just being a fanned fret 8 string wasn't really "different enough" -- I was always trying to get something maximally different or as prototypical to the builder as I could (as I envisioned it). For me, at that time, with Dan's stuff, that was the 2-3 CF Onis that were floating around these boards.

These days I feel better the fewer outstanding orders I have (just 2 now -- a boden and a daemoness, probably from 2014 range as well).


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## ramses (Oct 3, 2019)

narad said:


> Cool Factor.



OK. I get that :-D


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## Djentlyman (Oct 4, 2019)

I think Misha would approve


also killer guitar!


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## Thaeon (Oct 4, 2019)

narad said:


> Man, what a ride this one was! I’ll start with a quick photo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am SOOOOOOOOO jealous of you right now. I can't wait for mine to be done. The blue is stellar man. You should stop smoking whatever you're smoking...



Fred the Shred said:


> STFU, man - it looks glorious!
> 
> As for the whole "OMG HE TOOK 6 YEARS" thing... no he didn't. He didn't want to go through with an idea given past experiences, narad persuaded him, he tried to find a way to achieve narad's very specific results after a lot of that and then decided to use a more reliable alternative give how he wasn't pleased with the results after proposing said approach to his customer. The end.
> 
> Dan is a star of a guy and one hell of a luthier, so it would take a massive bellend to be hostile towards him.



Dan is literally such a gem of a dude I don't think I could get mad at him if I wanted to. For the most part, he makes the build process feel like one of your best mates is building you a guitar. 



wannabguitarist said:


> Excellent color choice. It's always nice to see new Oni's pop up.



The blue does look gorgeous. I love seeing new Onis.


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## mphsc (Oct 4, 2019)

Congrats. Love Oni. We will be the exclusive USA dealer for them!


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## narad (Oct 4, 2019)

Djentlyman said:


> I think Misha would approve
> 
> 
> also killer guitar!




I really wonder if that video has (a) increased Oni sales because Misha's playing one, or (b) decreased Oni sales because it sounds awful.


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## Thaeon (Oct 4, 2019)

Unsure. Probably increased sales because this video was at the height or buy whatever Misha is playing on YouTube madness. I can’t tell if the scratchy tone is the phone mic or just a poor dial on that amp. Which appears to be a pitbull UL. If I remember correctly that’s @HighGain510’s Oni.


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## narad (Oct 4, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> Unsure. Probably increased sales because this video was at the height or buy whatever Misha is playing on YouTube madness. I can’t tell if the scratchy tone is the phone mic or just a poor dial on that amp. Which appears to be a pitbull UL. If I remember correctly that’s @HighGain510’s Oni.



I actually recall it hurting my opinion / desire to order. There just aren't many Oni vids out there, so even though I know this one primarily sounds ilke shit because it's like a phone clip from 2007, since it was one of a tiny number of reference points, it definitely put me off a bit. Really needed someone with a ton of experience like Elq to come along and praise it.

Thankfully these days we have Fluff, EtschyPi, Unbiased Gear Reviews, and Steve something to show us what's good......

BTW, when do you get yours?


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## Thaeon (Oct 4, 2019)

narad said:


> I actually recall it hurting my opinion / desire to order. There just aren't many Oni vids out there, so even though I know this one primarily sounds ilke shit because it's like a phone clip from 2007, since it was one of a tiny number of reference points, it definitely put me off a bit. Really needed someone with a ton of experience like Elq to come along and praise it.
> 
> Thankfully these days we have Fluff, EtschyPi, Unbiased Gear Reviews, and Steve something to show us what's good......
> 
> BTW, when do you get yours?



I leave time frames up to Dan really. I figure another 3-6 months though. I know he’s got my neck cut and has started on the body. Rhett Schul puts out really good content and there’s obviously Pete Thorn. Arnold lives about an hour and a half from me in Austin now. I’d actually like to have his take on Oni. And I’d be willing to let him borrow mine to do a review. I want Dan to get as much exposure as possible. K Dwyer on YouTube has a band and one of the older Onis. His stuff sounds killer. I record gigs a lot on my GoPro. So I’ll be putting out content with my band as well.


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## dpm (Oct 4, 2019)

narad said:


> I really wonder if that video has (a) increased Oni sales because Misha's playing one, or (b) decreased Oni sales because it sounds awful.



Probably (b)

I remember that guitar having a really broad frequency range acoustically. It sounded more like a piano. Spruce body and neck on that one. I can't recall which pickup design was in it, the probably had quite a bit of cut too. I have to remind myself that nobody was making fanned pickups back then, and nor were they interested in doing so.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 4, 2019)

dpm said:


> Probably (b)
> 
> I remember that guitar having a really broad frequency range acoustically. It sounded more like a piano. Spruce body and neck on that one. I can't recall which pickup design was in it, the probably had quite a bit of cut too. I have to remind myself that nobody was making fanned pickups back then, and nor were they interested in doing so.



You are far too hard on yourself, dude. 

There are many reasons why that video doesn't sound all that great and I wouldn't even put your pickups in the top ten.


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## dpm (Oct 4, 2019)

Hey look, an actual recording


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## Thaeon (Oct 5, 2019)

Oden has great tone too. Isn’t he using a triaxis on that?


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## Thaeon (Oct 5, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You are far too hard on yourself, dude.
> 
> There are many reasons why that video doesn't sound all that great and I wouldn't even put your pickups in the top ten.



I agree. I imagine the guitar had very little to do with that tone. When I go back and listen to that first Periphery album I cringe a little. Tunes are fun. Guitar tone? Not so much. They’ve gotten way better in the time since. But around that time it wasn’t so great.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Oct 5, 2019)

Super nice looking! I think the only thing I would have done different would have been to get white/silver hardware, the blue/black combo has always looked cheap to me for some reason.


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## dpm (Oct 5, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You are far too hard on yourself, dude.
> 
> There are many reasons why that video doesn't sound all that great and I wouldn't even put your pickups in the top ten.



Ah, I guess it just feels like ancient history. In my mind the newer guitars from 2012 onwards were a big step, then the new neck construction maybe about 2016, plus lots and lots of little things. Realistically quality hasn't changed drastically, but as these cohesive whole entities the guitars are just _better._



Thaeon said:


> Oden has great tone too. Isn’t he using a triaxis on that?



I believe the studio recordings are a Sherlock Fathead (made in Melbourne) combined with a Bad Cat of some sort. There's triaxis in there too, but I _think_ the main gain tone is those two amps blended.


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## Thaeon (Oct 5, 2019)

Interesting. They sound interesting. How do they compare to the Monoliths you’ve been telling me about lately? They look like an all the bells and whistles sort of thing. The low end on that album is really nice, but it’s a little rounder than I would expect from an 8 string. Speaks a lot to your guitar’s ability to be set to a pretty open tone. However, I have no idea how much production magic is on there. I suppose I could just ask Oden.


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## dpm (Oct 5, 2019)

The MI Megalith is a different beast entirely, even though you can pull all sorts of tones from it there's a persistent "immediacy" to it, it feels quick and direct and it doesn't make me work as hard as with other amps. I find I have to use a heavier attack with most other amps to get the kind of attack I like.

I haven't tried a Sherlock in person but I get a more "classic" vibe from what I've heard. They sound great.

Funny thing about the Like Thieves recordings is that I can hear that it's an Oni, and from the decay of the notes I can tell that it's the old standard carbon bar neck reinforcement


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## Thaeon (Oct 5, 2019)

It does have ‘a sound’. Just based on the one I’ve played. I didn’t think bigger lows and tighter were possible together. Some how it happens. It’s hard to describe. But I think I can hear some similarities between the recordings I have of me playing the touring seven and on the Like Thieves recordings. Being pretty familiar with them already, I had an “a-ha” moment. I played it on a Carol-Ann. Classic high gain. Sounded really good. My Herbert is not that sound though. It’s really immediate and modern. Tight attack, but really round. The clip you sent me sounded like it’s significantly brighter than the Herbert. I’d be interested to hear @narad sound off on the tone of the Oni given his assortment of amps.


dpm said:


> The MI Megalith is a different beast entirely, even though you can pull all sorts of tones from it there's a persistent "immediacy" to it, it feels quick and direct and it doesn't make me work as hard as with other amps. I find I have to use a heavier attack with most other amps to get the kind of attack I like.
> 
> I haven't tried a Sherlock in person but I get a more "classic" vibe from what I've heard. They sound great.
> 
> Funny thing about the Like Thieves recordings is that I can hear that it's an Oni, and from the decay of the notes I can tell that it's the old standard carbon bar neck reinforcement


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## Steinmetzify (Oct 5, 2019)

Love this dude @narad 

Guitar looks insane, love the paint, and the story was awesome to read. 

HNGD mang


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## narad (Oct 7, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> I’d be interested to hear @narad sound off on the tone of the Oni given his assortment of amps.



It's really tough because I don't have any other 8s here, owned only one 8, played only a handful of others, so a lot of what's new is "Oh hey, I have a low f# again". Some things I can say though:

a) overall tone from the pickups is really great to my ears. Balanced, but versatile. They're backed off a bit compared to like the Lundgren stuff, so there's just a hint of grind coming in to say, yes, it's basically a metal voicing, but not over-the-top. Even soloing high on the bridge pickup isn't too harsh, and the neck pickup is very smooth. I'd really need to try them in a 6-string standard scale to understand them more, but I feel like they'd be a contender for best pickup.

In comparison to other 8 sets, lundgrens m-series are great but hot 1-trick-ponies, lace were trash, and d-activators were nice overall but lacked a bit of character. These are most similar to the d-activators, but just overall much nicer sounding.

b) the clips kinda get it. Not the Misha clip from last century obviously, but a lot of clips on Dan's FB page, the ones posted here, there really is something standout about the tonal character of it. I can't put my finger on it. It's like a punchy smoothness with a low-mid focus and a lot of oomph. I'm not surprised Dan can pick it out.

c) sustain is crazy. This is the single most notable part to me, is how long the notes on this guitar sustain before any noticeable decay kicks in. I'm not talking about how long the notes actually last - who cares. But this is really interesting and I've followed up with Dan about it a bit. He's saying it's the carbon rods. If it's really something not much connected to the scale length, man, would be killer to have on a shorter string guitar for solo work.

As far as amps go, I've only been using it with the Vh4 and the rectifier. Prefer it with the Vh4, but I don't know what to say much more than that. Since it's such a long scale length, I've mostly just been doing chord stuff. Playing some The Haunted stuff. Sounding great for that. At the moment I don't have it setup to be super tight, but might try it with the precision drive when I'm back to my apartment in a few days.

I can try it out with something specific if you're interesting.


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## Thaeon (Oct 7, 2019)

narad said:


> It's really tough because I don't have any other 8s here, owned only one 8, played only a handful of others, so a lot of what's new is "Oh hey, I have a low f# again". Some things I can say though:
> 
> a) overall tone from the pickups is really great to my ears. Balanced, but versatile. They're backed off a bit compared to like the Lundgren stuff, so there's just a hint of grind coming in to say, yes, it's basically a metal voicing, but not over-the-top. Even soloing high on the bridge pickup isn't too harsh, and the neck pickup is very smooth. I'd really need to try them in a 6-string standard scale to understand them more, but I feel like they'd be a contender for best pickup.
> 
> ...



Just details about the VH4 really. I have a Herbert. There are a lot of similarities. Used to have a Multiwatt Triple as well.


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## thrsher (Oct 8, 2019)

congrats! Dan is the man. he as a person is awesome. him as a business man ever better. him as a guitar builder, one of the greats!


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## nightlight (Oct 8, 2019)

Sick guitar, man! What does it weigh (and that's not a snarky question)?


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## narad (Oct 9, 2019)

nightlight said:


> Sick guitar, man! What does it weigh (and that's not a snarky question)?



Honestly no clue and without a scale. Better to ask @dpm


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## Thaeon (Oct 9, 2019)

nightlight said:


> Sick guitar, man! What does it weigh (and that's not a snarky question)?



The 7 string I played was light. Really light. 7lbs or less?


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## narad (Oct 9, 2019)

Aissur said:


> That guitar does not look carbon fibery at all



It's in the neck, not aesthetic like originally planned.


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## dpm (Oct 10, 2019)

nightlight said:


> Sick guitar, man! What does it weigh (and that's not a snarky question)?





narad said:


> Honestly no clue and without a scale. Better to ask @dpm



Honestly no clue either. About average-ish guitar weight?
This one is heavy for an Essi because it has a heavy ash body, but Essis aren't heavy guitars. It'd be excessively heavy as a Tele, but it's not a Tele.
I don't weigh them, I'm more concerned about balance and weight distribution than actual weight measurements. As for the guitar weight thing in general, having played a zillion guitars as a tech I don't find it an accurate gauge of anything other than what a guitar weighs.

Having said that, I have been weighing a batch of 3 Spanish Cedar bodies from the same board. They're insanely light and I'm trying some stuff related to mass, balance and tone. As far as tone goes I don't expect to learn anything other than very general relative stuff.


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## Milchek (Oct 14, 2019)

What a beautiful guitar. There is a bloke here in Aus selling a couple on FB (well at least he was a few weeks ago) and it was very tempting to grab one. I just fear about resale value with these ultra boutique brands. Another guy here in Australia (Searls) recently closed up and I've seen a lot of his guitars up on FB and they're going for a lot less than it would've cost to buy. I suppose that goes for many brands, but still, with boutique there is a greater risk I feel than with brands like ESP where you have signature models now commanding 3x or 4x their original purchase price.


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 14, 2019)

Milchek said:


> What a beautiful guitar. There is a bloke here in Aus selling a couple on FB (well at least he was a few weeks ago) and it was very tempting to grab one. I just fear about resale value with these ultra boutique brands. Another guy here in Australia (Searls) recently closed up and I've seen a lot of his guitars up on FB and they're going for a lot less than it would've cost to buy. I suppose that goes for many brands, but still, with boutique there is a greater risk I feel than with brands like ESP where you have signature models now commanding 3x or 4x their original purchase price.


oni seems to hold their value pretty well from what I've seen. shame about searls, he was building some nice stuff.


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## narad (Oct 14, 2019)

Milchek said:


> What a beautiful guitar. There is a bloke here in Aus selling a couple on FB (well at least he was a few weeks ago) and it was very tempting to grab one. I just fear about resale value with these ultra boutique brands. Another guy here in Australia (Searls) recently closed up and I've seen a lot of his guitars up on FB and they're going for a lot less than it would've cost to buy. I suppose that goes for many brands, but still, with boutique there is a greater risk I feel than with brands like ESP where you have signature models now commanding 3x or 4x their original purchase price.



That's the rule -- boutique guitars will be available used less than it would've cost to buy new. When there's a blackmachine or some temporary push in prices or some limited sig model that goes up, those are the exceptions. 

And I guess it's going to vary depending on where one lives but ESP sig models commanding 3x-4x their price? I'm seeing sigs 30-40% their original price all day long. Currently wondering if I should get a Sugizo mixed media for like 60% its original price just because.

I think the takeaway is not to buy guitars as investments. If you're really concerned with value, always buy used.


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## Walter W. (Oct 14, 2019)

Damn at the amps in the background though


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## spudmunkey (Oct 14, 2019)

narad said:


> That's the rule -- boutique guitars will be available used less than it would've cost to buy new. When there's a blackmachine or some temporary push in prices or some limited sig model that goes up, those are the exceptions.
> 
> And I guess it's going to vary depending on where one lives but ESP sig models commanding 3x-4x their price? I'm seeing sigs 30-40% their original price all day long. Currently wondering if I should get a Sugizo mixed media for like 60% its original price just because.
> 
> I think the takeaway is not to buy guitars as investments. If you're really concerned with value, always buy used.



Buying a custom guitar with resale in mind is such a strange concept to me. Like...would you buy a tailored suit in a size other than your own because it's a more common size and would be easier to sell?


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## Bellyofthesea (Oct 14, 2019)

narad said:


> Man, what a ride this one was! I’ll start with a quick photo:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*I could suffocate in your living room and I'd die happy. You are so blessed to have all that ridiculously awesome gear man! 
*


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## Bellyofthesea (Oct 14, 2019)

Walter W. said:


> Damn at the amps in the background though


Stoopid Jealous I AM.


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## Bellyofthesea (Oct 14, 2019)

Adieu said:


> Just short of SIX YEARS, and yet far from axe-murdering the guy, you sing his praises?????


by the look of things, I doubt this fella worries much.. Man ..my eyes!!


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## Milchek (Oct 15, 2019)

narad said:


> That's the rule -- boutique guitars will be available used less than it would've cost to buy new. When there's a blackmachine or some temporary push in prices or some limited sig model that goes up, those are the exceptions.
> 
> And I guess it's going to vary depending on where one lives but ESP sig models commanding 3x-4x their price? I'm seeing sigs 30-40% their original price all day long. Currently wondering if I should get a Sugizo mixed media for like 60% its original price just because.
> 
> I think the takeaway is not to buy guitars as investments. If you're really concerned with value, always buy used.



Re: the rule and exceptions; I hear ya, and agree. It's more an observation or even a guess as to what prices might be like far down the line based on what we've seen to this point. I'm sure there were boutique guitar makers in the 60s and 70s, but I don't see much noise about them today compared to people who have 60s and 70s Fenders or Gibsons that go for high prices.

Of course, no one buys a custom guitar with resale in mind, you go custom because you want something personal, something that you'll keep for as long as you live. And yet, I see so many pop up on the market recently; searls, ormsby, oni, kiesel, aristides etc. My point is that 30 years from now the likelihood some boutique brands will increase in value is less than the likelihood of a guitar from an iconic/established brand.

Re: the ESP comment, you're probably right, it might depend on where one is. I've just seen some crazy prices for the Metallica signature guitars (James old explorers seem to fetch a prety decent price) and maybe that was skewing my opinion.

EDIT: Sorry to derail this thread haha, it's truly an awesome guitar man, and very nice amp collection!


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## prlgmnr (Oct 15, 2019)

Bellyofthesea said:


> *I could suffocate in your living room and I'd die happy.*


He's asked us not to talk about "the incident".


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## narad (Oct 15, 2019)

Walter W. said:


> Damn at the amps in the background though



Guuuyyyyss.... it gets worse...









Joke's on me though when we're all using digital stuff 3 years from now...


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 15, 2019)




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## BigViolin (Oct 15, 2019)

Is your plan to daisy chain all those bad boys and summon Godzilla?


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 15, 2019)

narad said:


> Guuuyyyyss.... it gets worse...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


yeah that's not excessive at all


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## narad (Oct 16, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah that's not excessive at all



Yea, I mean, certainly I don't really need both the couch AND the chair in there, but I just thought maybe it's good to have just in case guests come over.


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## ChugThisBoy (Oct 16, 2019)

Oh man, what a great thread and really great guitar. Honest congratulations!


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## KnightBrolaire (Oct 16, 2019)

narad said:


> Yea, I mean, certainly I don't really need both the couch AND the chair in there, but I just thought maybe it's good to have just in case guests come over.


pssh furniture just takes up extra room you could fill with amps


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 16, 2019)

Get some of those old padded Kustom amps and you won't even need furniture.


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## Thaeon (Oct 16, 2019)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Get some of those old padded Kustom amps and you won't even need furniture.



Get some of that 50s atom punk stuff to go with it and go ahead and buy a Frank Lloyd Wright house and you're in business.


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## Heroooh (Nov 12, 2019)

Uuf love that Essi


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## AwakenNoMore (Nov 12, 2019)

That room with amps for walls makes my peepee tingle.


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## Drew (Nov 12, 2019)

dpm said:


> Honestly no clue either. About average-ish guitar weight?
> This one is heavy for an Essi because it has a heavy ash body, but Essis aren't heavy guitars. It'd be excessively heavy as a Tele, but it's not a Tele.
> I don't weigh them, I'm more concerned about balance and weight distribution than actual weight measurements. As for the guitar weight thing in general, having played a zillion guitars as a tech I don't find it an accurate gauge of anything other than what a guitar weighs.


Non sequitur quote, but dude, how've you been? Great to see you around here again. 

That guitar looks SICK, too.


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## Thaeon (Nov 13, 2019)

Drew said:


> Non sequitur quote, but dude, how've you been? Great to see you around here again.
> 
> That guitar looks SICK, too.



Not seeking to answer for him obviously, but he's relatively active on IG and Facebook. I've been keeping up with him in those places for years now. There's some great build content.


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## bostjan (Nov 19, 2019)

Happy NGD! I love that thing!


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## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 19, 2019)

If anyone wants to trade their Oni lmk
I got mad good stuff
Maybe I’ll give you my axe 3 for it


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## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 19, 2019)

narad said:


> I think of it like this. Here's an alternate reality:
> 
> me >> I want carbon fiber
> Dan >> There are many reasons I don’t do CF anymore
> ...


Hey Rad
What does the carbon fiber do
Where is it?
Is it that little triangle or is it INSIDE the truss rod shaft or something ???

I’d like to understand why it’s there and what it does and why you insisted on it

I googled and I can’t find anything on it


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## spudmunkey (Nov 19, 2019)

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Where is it?
> Is it that little triangle or is it INSIDE the truss rod shaft or something ???
> 
> I’d like to understand why it’s there and what it does and why you insisted on it
> ...



It's laminated in the neck. 

It sounds like at the beginning, it was purely for cosmetic reasons (and there's still some with the Truss rod cover, control cavity cover plate), since it was being wrapped over a wooden body. But laminated in the neck, it would be there to provide stiffness.


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## narad (Nov 19, 2019)

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Hey Rad
> What does the carbon fiber do
> Where is it?
> Is it that little triangle or is it INSIDE the truss rod shaft or something ???
> ...



Yes, @spudmunkey got it.

Dan uses CF in the neck reinforcement anyway, so if you get a new Oni today, that's going to be there. I'm not sure the arrangement/orientation in the neck shaft, that's something to ask Dan. Other luthiers use CF for reinforcement as well, but I think Dan has really mastered it. I feel it's like swords or something: you want the neck to be stiff, but too stiff is not good either, and there's a compromise spot that takes a lot of experimentation to nail down.

The separate issue is CF body wrap. Dan did a few CF Onis back in the day and I always thought that was kind of the iconic Oni for me, so in putting in a new build I wanted that look. Obviously didn't work out.


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## Thaeon (Nov 20, 2019)

@narad 

Curious how you're feeling about it still after over a month of play time.


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## narad (Nov 20, 2019)

Thaeon said:


> @narad
> 
> Curious how you're feeling about it still after over a month of play time.



Sadly I haven't gotten much play time in this month, and I got a Diezel Schmidt close to the same time, so usually wind up playing a Suhr through that. My opinion on it hasn't changed, but it's a guitar I like for more metal stuff, and the Schmidt doesn't really get into metal territory.


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## Politics of Ecstasy (Nov 20, 2019)

Narad, you have arguably the most insane collection of guitars we’ve ever seen, I love that you just casually couldnt get around to trying what is probably the most GASed over Multiscale out!


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## Thaeon (Nov 20, 2019)

Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Narad, you have arguably the most insane collection of guitars we’ve ever seen, I love that you just casually couldnt get around to trying what is probably the most GASed over Multiscale out!




“Man, I got a new amp too, so I just couldn’t be bothered with playing a guitar I’ve been waiting years on and most mortal men would sacrifice a testicle or two for”


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## narad (Nov 20, 2019)

Lol. Deadlines are deadlines man. And sadly Japan doesn't have much of a Christmas holiday to chill out with guitar in, like I'm used to.


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## Thaeon (Nov 21, 2019)

narad said:


> Lol. Deadlines are deadlines man. And sadly Japan doesn't have much of a Christmas holiday to chill out with guitar in, like I'm used to.



Dude, I understand. I’m a single dad, I work full time, and I’m in a gigging band. I wish I had time for other things too...


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## USMarine75 (Nov 21, 2019)

I need that in a 6 or 7 string, minus the 29" scale on the low E lol.

Congrats 10/10



narad said:


> Sadly I haven't gotten much play time in this month, and I got a Diezel Schmidt close to the same time, so usually wind up playing a Suhr through that. My opinion on it hasn't changed, but it's a guitar I like for more metal stuff, and the Schmidt doesn't really get into metal territory.





Politics of Ecstasy said:


> Narad, you have arguably the most insane collection of guitars we’ve ever seen, I love that you just casually couldnt get around to trying what is probably the most GASed over Multiscale out!



That sounds like me with OD/dirt pedals. I constantly get asked about comparisons between pedals I own and it's like damn I've only had it for 6 months I haven't really tried it yet except for the 5 minutes when I first unboxed it. I end up playing the same old favs instead with the little time I get. Kids+work+too much gear


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## Thaeon (Nov 21, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> I need that in a 6 or 7 string, minus the 29" scale on the low E lol.
> 
> Congrats 10/10
> 
> ...



I understand this. However, I end up writing with the new stuff because it inspires different ideas.


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## mphsc (Nov 21, 2019)

Everyone needs an Oni. E-Scale, Fanned or Straight. Dan is top of his craft.


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## jco5055 (Nov 21, 2019)

I chatted with Dan and he mentioned he thinks in the future he may be able to design a trem for the Essi, which would instantly make it a must buy for me. But even just talking to hi you can tell how passionate he is for what he does!


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