# ESP Eclipse vs Gibson Les Paul



## MoshJosh

So I won't be buying a new guitar anytime soon, mostly because I like the ones I have now, but currently I only own Fender guitars and I'd like to spice it up in the future. I've really been GASing over Gibson recently and leaning towards a Les Paul as my next purchase. . . but I've only ever played one Les Paul and it was a studio that I didn't particularly care for. So that has me thinking maybe I should try to find a 4 knob Eclipse. I like ESP and found my older Horizon very comfortable. I can get a nice top and binding for much cheaper than an equivalent Gibson, and it won't weigh quite as much, so thats a plus. The problem is I've only ever played 2 Eclipses, both unplugged, and both 3 knob models, though I did like them.

So what are your thoughts?

Any differences between the 3 and 4 knob models?

will it sound like a Les Paul?


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## MoshJosh

I guess and Edwards Limited Model would be am option as well, but not sure the wood quality or if they are real maple caps or just veneers


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## cpfc_fan

All depends on your budget mate.


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## Blytheryn

MoshJosh said:


> So I won't be buying a new guitar anytime soon, mostly because I like the ones I have now, but currently I only own Fender guitars and I'd like to spice it up in the future. I've really been GASing over Gibson recently and leaning towards a Les Paul as my next purchase. . . but I've only ever played one Les Paul and it was a studio that I didn't particularly care for. So that has me thinking maybe I should try to find a 4 knob Eclipse. I like ESP and found my older Horizon very comfortable. I can get a nice top and binding for much cheaper than an equivalent Gibson, and it won't weigh quite as much, so thats a plus. The problem is I've only ever played 2 Eclipses, both unplugged, and both 3 knob models, though I did like them.
> 
> So what are your thoughts?
> 
> Any differences between the 3 and 4 knob models?
> 
> will it sound like a Les Paul?



As an incredibly proud owner of a 4 knob Eclipse I can say that it blasts all Les Pauls I've ever played out of the water. Personally I think that it's more comfortable to play, and from what I know sounds better to my ears. I've played 3 knob Eclipses too, and they feel fine, but they just don't have the mojo that a 4 knob has. If you ask me a 4 knob Eclipse is just a much better guitar than a Gibson in it's price range. There's a reason Gibson sued them!

Here's mine:


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## oneblackened

The ESPs are noticeably thinner and as such are somewhat brighter than Les Pauls.


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## MoshJosh

cpfc_fan said:


> All depends on your budget mate.



$1200 is probably going to be max.


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## cpfc_fan

oneblackened said:


> The ESPs are noticeably thinner and as such are somewhat brighter than Les Pauls.



Spot on there mate. I have both an eclipse and les paul in my place and both totally different kettles of fish. I think its all horses for courses. I love ebony fretboards and jumbo frets so was instantly drawn towards the eclipse.

I have a USA Eclipse on order which could shift some boundaries as its different to the current 4 knob eclipse I have in terms of everything excluding the jumbo frets and ebony fretboard of course. Set-thru neck instead of a set neck. Full bodied and not thin. EMG 66 and 57 not 60 and 81. List goes on.

To the OP I would just play both and see how you feel. There are many different variations of the les paul so really shop around and play as many as you can. As for the eclipse it really depends on budget and what sort of guitar you like.


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## Blytheryn

cpfc_fan said:


> Spot on there mate. I have both an eclipse and les paul in my place and both totally different kettles of fish. I think its all horses for courses. I love ebony fretboards and jumbo frets so was instantly drawn towards the eclipse.
> 
> I have a USA Eclipse on order which could shift some boundaries as its different to the current 4 knob eclipse I have in terms of everything excluding the jumbo frets and ebony fretboard of course. Set-thru neck instead of a set neck. Full bodied and not thin. EMG 66 and 57 not 60 and 81. List goes on.
> 
> To the OP I would just play both and see how you feel. There are many different variations of the les paul so really shop around and play as many as you can. As for the eclipse it really depends on budget and what sort of guitar you like.



I might want to add that the neck profiles are pretty different as well. An Eclipse neck is pretty close to what you would find on a superstrat.


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## MoshJosh

^^^ I like more vintage rounded neck profiles, I've played and like the Gibson 60s profile well enough, and I really like my telecaster neck profile???


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## cpfc_fan

MoshJosh said:


> ^^^ I like more vintage rounded neck profiles, I've played and like the Gibson 60s profile well enough, and I really like my telecaster neck profile???



Probably better off with a Les Paul then mate.


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## MoshJosh

I also love the Horizon U profile but I assume the Eclipse is different


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## oneblackened

It's the same neck profile you'll find on most ESPs - the standard "Thin U" shape. Fairly round but on the thinner side as well.


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## wiretap

As a guy who owns quite a few Eclipse's from LTD EC's to Custom Shop, I back the Eclipse. Especially if you don't have much to drop for a nice Gibson (trads can be had for a nice price though) I had a really cool, older Les Paul Classic at one point, sure, not top of the line, but it was a killer guitar. but I also ended up selling it. That said, you won't get the LP sound with the average eclipse, close, but not quite the same. The full thickness ones, however, nail it. Sound of an LP with the playability of an ESP. I love mine, and it's a major reason I ditched the Gibbo (though eventually I'll cave and grab an LPC).


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## Spaceman_Spiff

I have the Les Paul Classic (about $1800) and it's easily one of the best guitars I've played. I used to have the EC1000 (LTD I know) but I just couldn't get used to the neck because I prefer rounder necks too. And the LP sustains like no other honestly. It's impossible to go back to my ibbys now  I used to swear by my EC1000 but after saving for the LP I'll never go back. 

I also played the Les Paul Studio Pro ($1300ish) and it was nice but I wanted something heavier and the classic has traditional weight relief while the studio pro has modern. (Cloudkicker plays the studio pro btw).


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## Chokey Chicken

If rounded necks are your thing, an LP is great. I love mine, which is a traditional. Everything about it was just perfect. If I had to keep just one 6 string, it'd be my Les Paul.

I can't remember if the LPJ's have the same neck, but they're nice guitars well within the budget.


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## MoshJosh

Yeah I'm just not sold on the studio of LPJ models. The studio model I had just didn't do it for me, not sure what it was. . .

If I'm getting a Les Paul its gotta have binding and the whole shebang. . . So I'd probably have to try and luck out with a used Les Paul standard or go on evilBay and buy an unloaded one, and slowly build it up


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## Steinmetzify

Owned both and played both. Kept my LPs. I like the necks ok on ESPs, but the thicker the better for me so the LPs won. 

For the record, to me the ESPs also sound thinner and brighter using the same pups and settings, but you can darken it up with different pickups and amp settings. 

If you really like Gibson necks, don't pick something else. There are Gibsons out there for $1200-$1300 and they're badass guitars. From what you own and have bought in the past, I'd say grab the Gibson. You make it to SLC any time soon let me know and you can show up and have a jam on either of mine. 

FWIW, these are completely awesome guitars, and totally in your price range used. Check em out, or buy this one. I'd vouch for that guy. 

Guitar Amp Board - View topic - FS: 2013 Gibson Signature T


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## Blytheryn

wiretap said:


> As a guy who owns quite a few Eclipse's from LTD EC's to Custom Shop, I back the Eclipse. Especially if you don't have much to drop for a nice Gibson (trads can be had for a nice price though) I had a really cool, older Les Paul Classic at one point, sure, not top of the line, but it was a killer guitar. but I also ended up selling it. That said, you won't get the LP sound with the average eclipse, close, but not quite the same. The full thickness ones, however, nail it. Sound of an LP with the playability of an ESP. I love mine, and it's a major reason I ditched the Gibbo (though eventually I'll cave and grab an LPC).
> 
> That thing is so hot.


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## WolleK

From my experience (around 7 Ltd Eclipse, 2 Esp Eclipse, 1 Edwards, 2 Gibson LP Classic) only the eclipse with full thickness body will sound similar to a Les Paul but only similar (depends also on pickups). 
If you want a guitar with similar specs to a LP, i can recommend Edwards LP. I had one for over 10 years (regret selling, gave up on guitar last year but now i am back), this thing did sound awesome and like a real LP, was light weight (around 3,5 kg) and the neck was way more chunkier than the thin u-profil (which is, as mentioned before, similar to a strat profile), also did not have the stickiness of gibson necks (yeah, i know, you can use micromesh)


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## themightyjaymoe

I' ve owned 3-4 eclipses (all ltd no esp so I cant comment on them) and around 6 les pauls from Studios to customs. Some sounded better to me than others. IMHO they can both do metal it's just a matter of what works for you. Currently my singlecut of choice is a Gibson LP traditional plus. Does whatever my hands tell it to do.


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## kmanick

I'm also looking into the "VS" I need a Les Paul type of guitar but I hate chunky necks and smaller frets, so the thicker 4 knob versions of the Eclipse is what I will be chasing down.
I 'd be in heaven if I could find one with 24 frets and passive pickups. It's just a much more "playable" guitar for me personally.
I gigged a 1975 Les Paul Deluxe for years. A close friend of mine has it now and I don't really like it anymore. I've gotten too used to Jackson/Charvel neck profiles.


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## MoshJosh

Alright guys, thanks for the replies! Sounds like finding "the right" Gibson Les Paul is going to be my best bet. That means saving for the next year, and driving 4 hours to Denver in hopes of trying as many Pauls as I can, and maybe getting a credit card haha 

The things you gotta do for GAS


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## thebunfather

I've owned and played a bunch of LP's a a couple of the LTD EC series. Your best bet with Gibson, is to play a bunch of them. As many as you can. I had my heart set on a Traditional and was saving up for it and ended up with a 2013 LPJ. It just "felt right". Not to mention that I got it for $500. New. I get what you're saying about wanting the LP with the binding and gloss finish, though. It's sexy. The LPJ is more of a working man's LP. But if you find a good one, they're great. 

I do like the Eclipse and EC series, but the LPs felt right to me. I'm old, though. I'm sure that makes a difference.


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## yellowv

While the Eclipses are nice guitars I find they don't sound like an LP. My advice would be to look for a Traditional Pro or Traditional Pro II used. They are great guitars. I love mine.


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## ToneLab

kmanick said:


> I'm also looking into the "VS" I need a Les Paul type of guitar but I hate chunky necks and smaller frets, so the thicker 4 knob versions of the Eclipse is what I will be chasing down.
> I 'd be in heaven if I could find one with 24 frets and passive pickups. It's just a much more "playable" guitar for me personally.
> I gigged a 1975 Les Paul Deluxe for years. A close friend of mine has it now and I don't really like it anymore. I've gotten too used to Jackson/Charvel neck profiles.



I've never owned either but I love my MIJ Jackson Dominion. I feel like it is the best of both worlds in that you get the Jackson neck, compound radius, body style that still has the thick Mahogany body/neck tone, more comfortable to me to play, yet the 24.75 scale, switchs to split coils etc.


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## source field

Every Eclipse I've tried sounds and plays nothing like a Les Paul.

TBH It's like comparing a shredder Ibanez RG to a Fender Strat.


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## bhakan

oneblackened said:


> The ESPs are noticeably thinner and as such are somewhat brighter than Les Pauls.


This is true most of the time, but there are "Full Thickness" Eclipses which are the same thickness as a Les Paul. They're a lot harder to find, but they do exist for those who want the fat, LP tone with a slightly thinner neck.


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## cpfc_fan

Has anyone played the new USA made eclipses yet? Mine doesn't come till January so was hoping for a review from someone on here as to how it plays compared to a Les Paul and a MIJ Eclipse.


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## will_shred

IMO, there isn't any substitute for a real Gibson Les Paul. There's just something about the look, the feel, the sound, that's really unique to them. I like Eclipses as well but they're a completely different animal, vastly different neck profile and body feel. I would go with a Gibson over an ESP, but I would also love to own either one because they're both awesome guitars.


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## MoshJosh

Ok well now I'm thinking of getting one of these first

ESP | EDWARDS | E-LP-130ALS

Should be a good substitute until I can fork over a couple grand for a Standard or Custom


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## bnzboy

eclipse for me:

-lighter weight
-comes with (personally) preferred choice of pickups (duncan/emg/etc)
-easier neck to play (some comes with satin finish-personal preference) 
-easier access to higher frets
-(personally) preferred choice of hardware (tone pros/locking tuners/etc)
-taller frets
-looks badass (maybe not as classy as a lespaul)
-lighter weight
-lighter


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## Steinmetzify

MoshJosh said:


> Ok well now I'm thinking of getting one of these first
> 
> ESP | EDWARDS | E-LP-130ALS
> 
> Should be a good substitute until I can fork over a couple grand for a Standard or Custom



Don't do it. Not that they're not serviceable guitars, but it's not what you want so you're gonna kick that $ and then still have to buy the LP. Save up, dude. The Custom is worth it.


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## MoshJosh

Only problem is we are talking about roughly 4 years saving haha not sure I can wait that long.


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## Steinmetzify

Ok so that blows then. Screw it, get the Edwards....no interest in that Sig T I sent you the link for? Gibson, binding, nice guitars for just over a graaaaaaaand....


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## MoshJosh

That is still very much an option (well not that specific one as I'm at least 6 months out from making this purchase) I really dig the sort of tobacco burst ones


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## Steinmetzify

Right on, keep em in mind. They're discontinued so you'd have to buy used, but at least they'd be cheaper that way lol.


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## AnthonyPuddu

As a proud owner of both, I can honestly say I prefer my Les Paul tenfold. Incomparable imo. BUT... that being said, the thing to be noted about Les Pauls, that leads a lot of peoples' negative opinions is that a lot of their magic lies in the nitro finish, and that their guitars differ drastically from one to another because of it. The nitro ages way differently, and thus every used Les Paul you play will sound and play significantly different. I remember looking at Les Pauls and hating a lot of them, and new ones especially lack the magic because they haven't worn in yet, but I picked up a slightly rough condition older one, and it played and sounded worlds better. My eclipse would have beat the other les pauls, but couldn't hold a candle to this one. Eclipses and 99% of guitars today don't use the same finishing techniques and thus they don't have the same woody tone, and won't age in the same way.


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## dr_game0ver

Tokai MIJ LP?


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## 1b4n3z

MoshJosh said:


> Ok well now I'm thinking of getting one of these first
> 
> ESP | EDWARDS | E-LP-130ALS
> 
> Should be a good substitute until I can fork over a couple grand for a Standard or Custom




Should be an excellent substitute indeed!

As for future - how about the ESP Navigator - the big brother to Edwards? You get a 'vintage vibe' with ESP craftsmanship for less or the same as a Gibson LP? 

I assure you, it will blow your mind :


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## Tuned

I don't like Les Pauls, to begin with.

I've owned a GLP Studio non-faded, it was decent for the money, I might buy it back sometime. I've shortly owned or played a few LPJ, a Standard, a Standard Plus Doublecut, a 1974 Black Beauty. LPJ is not a great instrument, but of all the GLP models niches it is most worth the money: it needs work but it pays. Most of Gibson products, including a Std.V, weren't worth the price asked, compared to many makers. 

I have played or owned a few Japanese-made instruments, including really cool LPs (Greco EG700 and EG900, Yamaha Studio Lord???) and they were more honest pricewise: you pay a $100 more, you get worth a $100 more. Not so with Gibson.

I own an MIJ ESP Edwards superstrat (like a ESP KH-2 bolt-on) and sometimes use my drummer's ESP Std. Eclipse I Snow White. Being made by the same hands in the same plant, they're totally different. The ESP Edwards is a fast player with a Jackson-like sound, it has a thin neck and asks for shred. Not so the ESP Eclipse. Its neck is very substantial and it makes a great rock guitar for heavy riffing that asks to be beat up and rewards you with fat sound, but isn't helpful with fast licks. I must say I don't find it smallish at all: the LP Std Plus Doublecut neck is a lot smaller, and the LP Studio neck - noticeably smaller.

Also, most ESP Eclipse guitars come with EMG pickups and that makes a difference. ESP Edwards you may be able to find with Seymour Duncans.

All in all, if you look for a LP, try a MIJ full-thickness guitar. With many brands (and I mean: MANY brands, they are numerous in Japan), the numbers of the model designation roughly refer to its price, like the E-LP-130 refers to $1300 and tax, and that is a hell of a great guitar. Any 90 and up is a cool working horse and anything above 120 will be great. A 130 will beat a $1300 Gibson any day of the week, and you can't ask more than a 180, it is top notch, and it is hard to compare it to a Gibson that costs $1800 new in a shop.

...and then come the Navigators that are made in ESP custom shops.


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## yurokx89

I have Gibson LP Custom`90 (with mahogany neck) and had more different LP - Ibanez, ESP, Edwards and etc.
No one didn`t sound better than Gibson. Amazing guitar.


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## Maybrick

I picked up an Eclipse over Christmas and adore it. Its the 4 knob CTM one with 4 knobs. I've never owned a Les Paul but played quite a few and definitely prefer it personally.


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## laxu

I'd probably go for Gibson, mainly because you live in the US where they are plentiful and a good one should be easier to find.

The problem with Gibson is that until you get to their high end models you have to deal with craftmanship ranging from flawless to infuriatingly sloppy. The main problems are fretwork, nut and neck angle. The first two are fixable and if you find a guitar that sounds great but has issues with either then try to arrange if the store can include some fretwork in the price. Look for any finish issues as well - those can be at least negotiated into a discount.

Neck angle is something you can't do anything about but it's quite easy to spot. Simply look at bridge pickup, bridge and tailpiece height. If any of those are significantly above pickup bezel or the top of the guitar, you have a guitar with too much neck angle. This means you'll lose some sustain because you can't crank that tailpiece down. 

This is good - both bridge and tailpiece are close to the body but there is still plenty of adjustment range either way:
Bridge005.jpg Photo by hfb51 | Photobucket

This is bad - both bridge and tailpiece have to be raised very high for acceptable action:
1_2010GibsonLesPaulStudioDeluxe5.jpg Photo by jvmstyle | Photobucket

I don't believe Gibson are the be-all-end-all of LP style guitars though, hell I play an old Korean copy myself simply because it's nicer than most Gibsons I've tried. They do send the worst examples over to Finland based on what I've seen in stores.


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## Josh Delikan

I own an ESP Eclipse-I CTM (the four-knob version, made in Japan) in Dark Purple Satin. I've also played many Les Pauls, from Standards to Gibson Customs, and for me the ESP beats them all, no question.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the LP's as such, it's just that the Eclipses are more comfortable to play and have better quality hardware as standard, and no LP that I've played has ever felt as solidly constructed as my Eclipse.

In the end, of course, it's all down to your own personal preference; your best bet would be to find somewhere that you can try both and decide that way.


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## vilk

I play an Eddy

And when I go to the store and grab a Gibby I think: 

My guitar is _at least_ this nice.
And came loaded with Seymour Duncans

I've never picked up an Edwards that I didn't think is the ..... 
Just to give you an opinion as someone who plays Edwards as his primary guitar.

The only issue I have is that I used to go to a wall of Edwards guitars and non of them were over a grand, but that's at least what you'll have to spend to get them in the states. It makes sense but it just bothers me in principle. I know for sure I'll be back to Japan sooner or later so I would never buy one here.


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## gogolXmogol

I would say if you CAN NOT test and hear the guitar before purchase (internet purchase) always go for the ESP eclipse for consistency in quality and sound. I do not want to argue about Gibson's being good guitars an all but some people say only 1 of 10 may qualify for that statement. Again, this is just my opinion


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## Aymara

MoshJosh said:


> $1200 is probably going to be max.



Search for the Gibson Les Paul Signature T, which is a 2013 only model and some shops still have a few left in this price range.

This is by far the best LP Gibson built in the last years, especially the only I could find with consistent good quality ... Gibson has huge QC issues since a few years! I tested the trans black one, the white one and bought the wine red version with silver hardware. All three were flawless with outsanding fret work ... the are Plek'ed. All other LPs I tested in 2013 had minor QC issues.

If I wouldn't have one, I would buy it again.



It's not a very popular model for two reasons: First the "T" on the trussrod cover, which can easily be replaced and second the Granadillo fretboard. But Granadillo is a special kind of rosewood only found in Mexico. The only difference to "standard" rosewood is, that Granadillo is often lighter in color.

Search the My Les Paul forum for the SigT thread to see how happy their owners are


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