# Weight Lifting Soreness



## Zepp88 (Nov 9, 2007)

So, I've recently signed up for a gym membership to get my ass in shape, and it certainly feels good going for this!

My first day I walked/jogged 30 minutes on the treadmill to get my cardio then I did some weight lifting. My goal is to get skinny and toned with very lean muscle, which is gonna take some work because now I'm chubby with no muscle 

I used this machine that's like a vertical benchpress, you sit down and push out on these bars, I'm not sure what it's called. I started out with a weight I felt comfortable pushing for 10 reps a set, 60 pounds. But my upper arms and pecs have been sore for two days after this! 

Did I do too much on my first day? I felt comfortable with the weight but maybe I need to step down to something lighter to start out?

I know there are a few guys on here that are into fitness so what would your suggetions be? Any ways to prepare my joints and muscles before lifting??

Also, I don't know if there are any other guys on the forum who are flat-footed? I am and it generally sucks, I've invested in some decent running shoes and I'm gonna start doing routine streches again to get my muscles and tendons in my legs loose enough so that there is little pain when running or walking. Any other flatfoots on here who can provide advice?

w0rd.


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## GH0STrider (Nov 9, 2007)

strech strech strech son. Picture your joints and muscles like a rubber band. what happens when you freeze a rubber band and then try to bend it? exactly. you gotta warm up and strech out. at least 10 minutes. 

Also if your going for the lean and ripped look over the bulcky bodybuilder then here is another tip-
When you are lifting you want to use lighter weight and look to complete higher reps. this will burn fat and help you build lean muscle. INstead of going for 10 reps aim for 15-20 at a light resistance.(your muscle should burn like hell after a high rep set like that. If they aren't you need to add weight) Look to complete 2-4 sets. Start out with 2 sets and work your way to 4. Focus on proper form overall. If your not doing the exercise correctly then your wasting time. Don't be afraid to ask the trainers. mix up your routine as well. Doing the same exercises over and over will force you body into a plateau. try and lift 4 days a week and give your body plenty of time for rest. Most noobies in the weightlifting world don't realize how important rest it. U need your muscles to regroup so they can grow and be ready for the next session


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## Zepp88 (Nov 9, 2007)

Thanks for tips man 

What kind of streches could I do for the arms/torso? All I'm familiar with is leg streches.

I'd heard that repitions are more important than weight, I'll definetly move to lighter weight, maybe 20-30 pounds?


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## sakeido (Nov 9, 2007)

I don't subscribe to the whole theory of high reps. To build muscle mass, do more sets of 8 or less (I do pyramids - 8 reps first set, 6 reps next set, 4 reps last set). I have never, ever had any success doing any more than that. Work out for strength; size and tone come with it, but to get bigger and continue getting bigger you need to have measurable improvement, and that will only ever be reflected in being able to lift more with each subsequent workout. 

And by more, I mean complete more reps with good form, or be able to move more weight for almost as many reps. If you are working it right, you seriously will be able to increase the weight on most exercises every workout when you are starting out (if and only if you are using good form). 

Also, I don't subscribe to the theory of a lot of workouts in a week. I go three times a week and do a full body workout each time. Research has shown that you need to release a lot of some chemical or other (it could be testosterone) for your muscles to rebuild larger than they were before; to do this, you need to work a lot of muscle groups. Your legs especially should not be ignored. For maximum effect, do squats every workout or at least every other workout. They are the king of all exercises for a reason - they are super effective at building muscle not only in your legs but supplying the fuel you need to build muscle in your entire body. 

As far as your original question goes, that's normal. The feeling will eventually go away, but should come back every time you change your workout plan (Which should be every 6-8 weeks). It is important to *not* work muscles that are already sore from your last workout. That does more harm than good. 

Other advice: don't use any machines, use free weights for absolutely everything. On machines, you can see gains, but then as soon as you go to a free weight that is not stabilized by a track, you will drop in weight a lot and it can be quite discouraging. Then you need to spend weeks building up all the stabilizing muscles while accomplishing no real growth in the bigger, more visible muscles. This is especially apparent with your chest and legs. Smithsonian Squat machines and pec decks are useless.

I could talk about this stuff for hours. One thing though, is that every trainer in this entire world unless they have a vast amount of experience (and then they are working for pro sports teams and celebrities - so you will not encounter these people) just recommends you either a standard plan you could find yourself on the internet, or the plan that worked for them (like I did here without asking). I may have ranted a bit but I have had a gym membership for four years and only have really done anything good with it in the past four months. 

I used to spend a lot of time talking, researching, asking, looking for some kind of magic bullet to make big gains fast, and neglected to spend actual quality time in the gym. The real improvement didn't come until I decided to build my own plan, and then just get to it.


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## Zepp88 (Nov 9, 2007)

Cody, what kind of build are you going for? Bigger and more body builder esque, or very small and lean?

There are many different schools of thought when it comes to acheiving a good workout, and they all probably work for different people. I'll have to chose the best plan to go for the build that I want, which is very small and lean.


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## El Caco (Nov 9, 2007)

I did not read the other replies so if someone has said this sorry.

The pain you are feeling is called DOMS. Delayed Onset of Muscle Soreness. It is what gym junkies crave. Its a good pain.

You have been told to swarm up and stretch before you work out, but if you do light cardio (say 5 minutes of light bike) after your workout and stretch you will recover quicker.

Basically when you work out you are tearing the muscle fibres, when you rest after you have worked out your body repairs these stronger, this takes energy. That is why you get bigger and lose body fat.

But remember all your gains occur in your rest period so do not work a muscle group again until it fully recovers.

Also as a basic rule lots of slow reps builds size and endurance, quicker reps and smaller sets with higher weight builds strength.

When I train, my reps are either 2 seconds up 2 seconds down or 1 second up 2 seconds down, I superset opposing muscle groups, this means I don't rest between sets, I do three sets the first two are sets of 10 to 12 the first set is 50% weight, the second set is 75% and the weight of the third set is enough to make me fully fatigue between the 6th and the 12th rep, if I can do more I put the weight up next time.

If you are training at a Gym, they should be designing your program around your goals, they should be telling you this information. If they are not, I recommend you take your money to a different gym.


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## Zepp88 (Nov 9, 2007)

It's a great gym, they have people who can give you tips and you can also get a personal trainer. There's a sauna, a heated pool, tanning beds, massage/day spa, enough equipment for everyone to use, etc...

I just figured I'd ask you guys for some tips.


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## El Caco (Nov 9, 2007)

I should have said that I used to train for strength not size, at my peak I was 70 kg, I could bench 130 kg and I could incline leg press over 280 kg, I don't know how much more they only had 280 kg of weight in the gym 

I have free weights at home now but I have not trained in about two years.


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## Zepp88 (Nov 9, 2007)

I guess strength training would be the type I'd want to go for? I really really don't want that huge disgusting body builder look....


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## El Caco (Nov 9, 2007)

Zepp88 said:


> It's a great gym, they have people who can give you tips and you can also get a personal trainer. There's a sauna, a heated pool, tanning beds, massage/day spa, enough equipment for everyone to use, etc...
> 
> I just figured I'd ask you guys for some tips.



That's good and it's also cool that you are weight training, there are a lot of health benefits from weight training.

The best advice I can give you is don't be too intimidated to ask for help or advice when you are training and don't do it half arsed.

Get someone to watch your technique on difficult exercises and lift enough weight to fully fatigue yourself in your last set. 

Also some days you will feel as weak as shit, don't force yourself to train on those days, you have not fully recovered, go home and rest and come back the next day. Some days you will feel great, when you have a great one take advantage and increase the weight, just be aware that it might take a little longer to recover.

Last and most important thing, technique is everything, things like swinging and introducing other muscle groups will help you pick up more weight but it will not accomplish anything. The idea is to lift the weight with the muscle you are trying to work. Correct technique with the correct amount of weight will give you the best results, poor technique with too much weight will most likely result in an injury.


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## Zepp88 (Nov 9, 2007)

Noted. 

I'm joined with a friend of mine who has been going for a while, he said I have good form/technique  I guess I'm okay it that department


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## Pirelli (Nov 9, 2007)

Zepp88 said:


> I guess strength training would be the type I'd want to go for? I really really don't want that huge disgusting body builder look....



This is a common misconception, especially with women, that if you lift weights for a few sessions you're going to blow up and look like Ronnie Coleman. If it was that easy to pack on muscle, don't you think there'd be more huge people walking around? 

All those guys are on a massive amount of steroids/HGH/Insulin etc and if you are just eating well and training you aren't going to see massive gains quickly. You will still see gains of course, but don't stress about becoming "huge". Also, if by some miracle you wake up too big one day, losing muscle is very very easy to do, just ask anyone who hasn't trained in a while...

Sakiedo's post is awesome and I agree that you're better off goin the whole body workout 3x week and sticking to free weights only. Doing heavy squats/deadlifts releases human growth hormone which will help you build more muscle and recover faster. As you put on muscle, your metabolism will speed up causing you to burn more fat, so it will help you reach your lean goal also.

As Firedragon mentioned, the pain you're feeling is called DOMS, it's always at it's worst when you haven't lifted before, but it will quickly become less severe as you continue to train. There's research to suggest that a protein/carb shake will reduce it's severity/length if you take it around the time of the workout.

Also, theres research to suggest that static stretching before working out doesn't reduce the chance of injury and it will actually negatively effect your performance. You're much better off doing a dynamic warm-up. See if you can get your hands on a DVD called magnificent mobility by Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson. Leave the static stretching until after you're finished, it will reduce DOMS also.


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## Zepp88 (Nov 9, 2007)

Rep to all who've given me tips  

I think I'll not do upper body this afternoon and focus on the legs and cardio...


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## Labrie (Nov 9, 2007)

sakeido said:


> I don't subscribe to the whole theory of high reps. To build muscle mass, do more sets of 8 or less (I do pyramids - 8 reps first set, 6 reps next set, 4 reps last set). I have never, ever had any success doing any more than that. Work out for strength; size and tone come with it, but to get bigger and continue getting bigger you need to have measurable improvement, and that will only ever be reflected in being able to lift more with each subsequent workout.
> 
> And by more, I mean complete more reps with good form, or be able to move more weight for almost as many reps. If you are working it right, you seriously will be able to increase the weight on most exercises every workout when you are starting out (if and only if you are using good form).
> 
> ...



Pyramid sets and super setting are fast ways to gain muscle size and strength but if you want to tone up then lower weight/high reps is definitely the way to go. I've seen it work countless times.

I also don't agree with the whole body workout thing you mentioned. I've found my best gains are when I focus on only a couple muscle groups per day. For example, I'll do chest and maybe some back and then let that muscle group rest for at least a couple days before focusing on them again. Of course you'll always use a bit of every muscle group for certain excercises.

I wouldn't say machines are bad either. I find if you change it up every so often, it kind of shocks your body. If you always do the same exercises the same way, your body gets used to that. For example, I'll do a few sets of shoulders using free weights and then I'll go to exhaustion on the smith machine.

One thing I often see guys at the gym do, is they'll stop at 10 reps even if they could do more. I try not to focus on how many reps I do and just go to exhaustion. Usually I try for 8-10 but if I can do 15 then I'll add more weight for the next set.

As for the original poster, you might want to look into taking a protein supplement to help with muscle repair. 

Always want to feel that burn


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## sakeido (Nov 9, 2007)

Labrie said:


> snip for length



If you stop at 10 reps but could do more, you aren't using enough weight. You shouldn't be able to do an 11th rep if you are using the proper weight. If you can do an 11th rep, then next time you go to the gym, increment the weight as little as possible (so add 5 pounds for squats & bench, 2.5 pounds for arms, back, flies, etc.). This is something I did that prevent me from making gains for the longest time and left me stuck with a weak chest for years. I thought that I shouldn't move up weight until it was easy for the whole set. This will never actually happen. You need to bump it up until the last rep is nearly impossible and then aim to only have that one impossible rep every time. I know you are doing it right it , I'm just trying to spin that into advice for Zepp  



Zepp88 said:


> Cody, what kind of build are you going for? Bigger and more body builder esque, or very small and lean?
> 
> There are many different schools of thought when it comes to acheiving a good workout, and they all probably work for different people. I'll have to chose the best plan to go for the build that I want, which is very small and lean.



When I started working out, I just wanted to gain size, and it worked. I put on about 15 pounds in two months using NO Xplode and lots of protein. Now I am kind of stuck at 168 but I am still steadily gaining in strength and for some reason size too. But now that I have been successful in the gym for awhile, I just work out to get stronger and stronger. I'm not going for the body builder look, I am aiming for around 175 pounds at the most. I'm lucky in that my fast metabolism means I can pig out and just eat Lots of food to gain weight, and end up gaining all that weight as muscle mass instead of fat, so I managed to gain 15 pounds and stay pretty toned the whole way  

To get the toned look, you need to have the underlying muscle size in the first place. You can't actually tone your muscles; they will build the same way no matter how many reps you are doing, so that's why I recommend a low rep, strength building program to gain size first and foremost. THEN, once the size is there, you can start doing increased cardio and higher rep workouts (which actually burn more calories, so it seems you are building tone when you are actually just reducing body fat).

But you should stick to a 6-8 week rotation on your entire workout plan. As you go to the gym, your body can get acclimatized to your workout and it will become too routine for it to be challenged and continue building muscle. So you could do something like this; the first one is the plan I am on right now.

Everything - 3 sets. First set 8 reps, second set 6 reps, last set 4 reps. Use a spotter! 

First pair: Squats & Flat Benchpress
Second pair: Incline flies & Decline Benchpress
Third pair: Standing free weight press (see below) & Seated Rows
Fourth pair: Bicep curls & Tricep presses

When I say "pair" I am referring to what is called a superset. I do this because it feels better, and reduces the amount of time you have to spend at the gym while increasing recovery time. You do one set, say squats, and as soon as you are done the set, you go and do benchpresses. Then you wait 60 seconds or so in between and do it again. There is a lot of research that advocates shorter workout times. Its not practical to do a good full body plan in 30 minutes, so 45 minutes is my personal goal for how long I stay in the gym. After that, you start to exhaust your body's energy stores and you can't work hard enough to build muscle anymore.

The "standing free weight press" is a name I invented because I can't remember the actual name of this exercise. Its in this month's issue of Men's Health. You take two small free weights, smooth sides out, squeeze them together with your hands in front of you, and extend your arms out all the way. Its hard to describe - I'll see if I can find a picture. 

Then for a toning plan, you don't need to switch to any isolation exercises, but you do need to switch all the exercises you are using to shock your body into growing again.
Four sets of 8 reps
First pair: Deadlifts & Pushups (with your feet on an exercise ball or bench)
Second set: Incline Benchpress & Bench Dips
Third set: Lat pull downs & Bent over rows
Forth set: Chin-ups (if you can do them) or negative chin-ups - no super set

One thing I still can't do is a full set of proper chin-ups. So instead, I do negative chin-ups. You go to the chin up bar, put a bench or something underneath it, and use that to jump up above the bar. Then you slowly lower yourself all the way over 6 seconds and repeat 5-8 times for a set. Once you can do 8 reps of 6 seconds through all three sets, you should in theory be able to do a real set of chin ups.


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## Labrie (Nov 9, 2007)

sakeido said:


> I put on about 15 pounds in two months using NO Xplode and lots of protein.



Amen to that. I added NO explode to m protein/creatine stack and it's been awesome so far. In the last month I've pushed my bench from like 185lbs to 225lbs and I'm still gaining. I find the NO explode really helps me push out those few last reps that I normally wouldn't get.


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## sakeido (Nov 9, 2007)

Definitely. No Xplod is fantastic stuff, I've starting taking Cell Mass too and noticed it is helping a bit. I finally might be working out of my plateau, but I still have a ways to go before I am going to be happy with how strong I am (I rep 165 on bench now but am aiming for at least 185) 

Another thing is, !!especially!! for bench presses, is have a spotter handy. You actually are stronger (they did a study that showed you were 15% stronger with a spotter handy, even if they weren't helping at all) for some reason, and that way you can really push it without worrying about getting stuck under the bar. I noticed without a spotter I am really skeptical and tend to top out 10 pounds lighter on the bench than I can when I do have a spotter.


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## Jason (Nov 9, 2007)

Not sure on everything that has been said..seeing I didn't read it all BUT.. I suggest doing a light 2-5 min jog on the treadmill for warmup.. To get your blood flowing then do some light stretching then hit the weights FOLLOWED by cardio.

Doing cardio after helps to burn the lactic acid buildup on yoru muscles and in short help to not be as sore.


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## Labrie (Nov 9, 2007)

Yeah I agree with the spotter or working out with friends. It's a mental thing, you're always afraid to push yourself because you don't want all the weight landing on you lol. 

I tried a sample pack of Cell Mass once...obviously one serving isn't going to tell you whether it worked or not, although I haven't heard the greatest reviews on CEE. I'm using a tub of cell tech right now....I know I know muscle tech = ew but it was on sale cheap and I know it works. I gotta start taking weight gainer again..I'm so underweight lol


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 9, 2007)

i just heard a study on the news that streching doesnt make any differance as to injuring your muscles, personally i dont see how streching couldnt help, but thats what a bunch of norwegian scientists said 
one thing that i can reccomend for you to get in shape, and this is no shit, i'v said this for years, fill a back pack with rocks and run your ass up some hills, then add more rocks, it will work every fiber in your being and make you a hard ass, and come to find out, alot of mma guys do that, they will tie some random shit to them like a tire or something, and just drag it around, it works all your muscles, your cardio, and makes you even look like a bad ass, i mean, come on, if you were driving down the street and looked over and a guy was dragging a refridgerator behind him, wouldnt you think he was a bad ass?


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## Labrie (Nov 9, 2007)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> i mean, come on, if you were driving down the street and looked over and a guy was dragging a refridgerator behind him, wouldnt you think he was a bad ass?



 I wouldn't want to fuck with that guy....

As for the stretching thing...I think you're just asking for it if you don't stretch or warm up. Plus I find a little ride on the bike and a couple set of lighter weights really helps for lifting the heavier sets. If you just jump right in I find you can't lift as much and you get tired faster.


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## Stitch (Nov 9, 2007)

The point of stretching is to warm up your muscles in preparation for what you are about to put them through - it helps them prepare for it and it doesn't shock the system as much or injure it. I mean, you wouldn't jump into a gig without warming up your fingers because you'd be shit, and you wouldn't jump into singing opera straight out from the cold and a cigarette either - you'd warm up your voice to get it ready for the REAL job, not the warming up.

I think.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 9, 2007)

hey i agree, its them damn norweigans you gotta tell, 

you can always tell a norwegian when you see one, you just cant tell them much


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## B Lopez (Nov 9, 2007)

Dragging tires is epic. It'll make you fast + explosive. I used to do that, but my buddy with the tire/harness rig is gone now


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## Jason (Nov 9, 2007)

But stich you need to get the blood flowing before ya stretch IMO


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## Stitch (Nov 9, 2007)

Oh yeah man, always. That wasn't directed at you mate, it was at whoever said there was no point in stretching. 

I always do 10-20 minutes cardio before I touch weights.


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## GH0STrider (Nov 12, 2007)

its simple-

if your trying to gain lost of muscle mass then you :
go with lower reps and more weight

If your trying to put on lean muscle mass:
Then you do high reps and less weight. 

And less weight meens a weight you can rep at least 15 times while keeping good form.


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## Pirelli (Nov 12, 2007)

Stitch said:


> The point of stretching is to warm up your muscles in preparation for what you are about to put them through - it helps them prepare for it and it doesn't shock the system as much or injure it. I mean, you wouldn't jump into a gig without warming up your fingers because you'd be shit, and you wouldn't jump into singing opera straight out from the cold and a cigarette either - you'd warm up your voice to get it ready for the REAL job, not the warming up.
> 
> I think.



No one is saying not to warm up, it would be stupid to try a max effort lift without warming up, you will hurt yourself. I haven't seen the Norwegian study that was mentioned, but I know of others who have come to similar conclusions, ie static stretching doesn't help pre-workout.

Doing a dynamic warmup is effective whereas standing there static stretching doesn't do anything and may be harmful instead of helpful.


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## 8string (Nov 17, 2007)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> hey i agree, its them damn norweigans you gotta tell,
> 
> you can always tell a norwegian when you see one, you just cant tell them much


 
Well... one damn norwegian here. tell me 

The point of this study is that it states that you get little tears and rifts in your musclefibers if you stretch after a hard workout. That's why you feel soreness after a workout. Your body will restitute itself faster if you don't stretch. I've never stretched after working out and I've never been harmed by it. I do stretching exercises by itself after a very thorough warmup to make my joints more flexible.


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## Universalis (Nov 18, 2007)

I noticed that noone wrote about FOOD. The things you eat make the 70% of the result: go talking to one of the guys of he gym and ask for a diet that fits your goals!


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## Zepp88 (Nov 18, 2007)

Universalis said:


> I noticed that noone wrote about FOOD. The things you eat make the 70% of the result: go talking to one of the guys of he gym and ask for a diet that fits your goals!



I've basically been trying to eat cleanly and get in as much protein as I can. My only vice as far as that has been energy drinks to stay up at work.


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## Universalis (Nov 18, 2007)

Good, you seem motivated! Last tip: get at least 8 hours of quality sleeptime after your workouts. Don't underestimate that! Now go and lift some weight, you lazy post writer!


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## Zepp88 (Nov 18, 2007)

Universalis said:


> Good, you seem motivated! Last tip: get at least 8 hours of quality sleeptime after your workouts. Don't underestimate that! Now go and lift some weight, you lazy post writer!



I post at work, and I typically go to the gym before work (I'm on the night shift)

I have been doing 30-40 minutes of cardio (treadmill, stairmaster) and doing weightlifting every other day. 

Missed it today though because I slept in 

I've dropped a few pounds so far. But it always fluctuates a pound or so which is frustrating..

I weighed in at 225 the first day and last time I went in (friday) I was 222. So I'm getting some progress..


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## FortePenance (Nov 18, 2007)

Huh, I just read through the entire of this thread. Don't want to hijack but I guess this is kinda relevant as I'm also with Zepp, trying to get the skinny toned kinda look, but could anyone explain in layman's terms how to get it? Reps, squats, they're all very vague terms to me... I'm 132lb and 6' at the moment, all I've got at home (theres a gym about a walk down from my place though) are two 4kg weights that I've been doing 100 reps (i think they are) with each arm, 25 erm, stretching my arms out holding the weights and bringing my arms together things (excuse the incredibly untechnical term), and 100 situps every other day. Would this be good for getting the lean look?


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## Zepp88 (Nov 18, 2007)

FortePenance said:


> Huh, I just read through the entire of this thread. Don't want to hijack but I guess this is kinda relevant as I'm also with Zepp, trying to get the skinny toned kinda look, but could anyone explain in layman's terms how to get it? Reps, squats, they're all very vague terms to me... I'm 132lb and 6' at the moment, all I've got at home (theres a gym about a walk down from my place though) are two 4kg weights that I've been doing 100 reps (i think they are) with each arm, 25 erm, stretching my arms out holding the weights and bringing my arms together things (excuse the incredibly untechnical term), and 100 situps every other day. Would this be good for getting the lean look?



132lb at 6 feet tall?? You're skinny as fuck


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## FortePenance (Nov 18, 2007)

yeah.  If I suck in my gut, you can see my ribs pressing against my skin. I can't tell if it's waay gross or waay cool.


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## Zepp88 (Nov 18, 2007)

So you have a little more meat on your bones than Jeffycakes 

I actually wouldn't mind that, it's better than....suck in your gut and you still have a gut


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## Jason (Nov 18, 2007)

FortePenance said:


> Huh, I just read through the entire of this thread. Don't want to hijack but I guess this is kinda relevant as I'm also with Zepp, trying to get the skinny toned kinda look, but could anyone explain in layman's terms how to get it? Reps, squats, they're all very vague terms to me... I'm 132lb and 6' at the moment, all I've got at home (theres a gym about a walk down from my place though) are two 4kg weights that I've been doing 100 reps (i think they are) with each arm, 25 erm, stretching my arms out holding the weights and bringing my arms together things (excuse the incredibly untechnical term), and 100 situps every other day. Would this be good for getting the lean look?



You already are lean 

Basically for food you want to eat lean proteins, good fats and complex carbs.


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## eon_shift (Nov 18, 2007)

I find just sitting on the couch works but im 18 so my metabolism helps out a bit.

I'm not a body builder but 6'3" and 195lb id say im area the skinny toned.


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