# Replacing Floyd With Kahler Trem.



## Uziel (Apr 10, 2014)

Hey guys, just looking for some advice on if I would benefit from replacing my licensed Floyd with a Kahler system. I bought an agile interceptor pro 725 in 2010 that I absolutely love, but I would like a more user friendly system for changing strings/setting up the guitar. I've been interested in the Kahler's for a while now and want to know if paying for the system/installation is worth it vs buying a new guitar with it already installed.


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## metallic1 (Apr 10, 2014)

I wouldn't do that man, it would be costly, and most likely not be any better than what you have now. You would be better off installing a Floyd rose original, and installing a tremmel-no. Or keep the licensed Floyd and block it.
While your at it,replace the tone block with a nice heavy brass one., that would be an instant improvement.


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## Uziel (Apr 10, 2014)

Thanks! I think the tremol no is looking like the best option for me. I despise balancing this damn thing.


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## metallic1 (Apr 10, 2014)

Yeah, just block it for a quick fix man, then it can't move on you.


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## ElysianGuitars (Apr 10, 2014)

Kahler's are terrible, even harder to set up than a Floyd. Too finicky, not reliable enough, just plain overengineered. Get a Tremol-no and be done with it.


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## Le Jeff (Apr 11, 2014)

Uziel said:


> Thanks! I think the tremol no is looking like the best option for me. I despise balancing this damn thing.


 How to Floyd Rose setup in 2 minutes. The Frudua Way - www.frudua.com - YouTube


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## Hollowway (Apr 11, 2014)

Don't do it. They're not that hard to set up - you're just not used to it. I have guitars with Floyds and Kahlers, and the only reason I own Kahlers is at the time there was no Floyd 8. But I'd swap them all for Floyds if I could do it easily. It's just a much better system, IMO. And it takes me no longer to set up than a hard tail.


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## Uziel (Apr 11, 2014)

Thanks for the responses. It's just general laziness on my part for not wanting to put up with it. For 8 years I've had other people set up my Floyds, but now I'm in a position to be playing much more frequently. Dat tuning stability. :/


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## demonx (Apr 11, 2014)

ElysianGuitars said:


> Kahler's are terrible, even harder to set up than a Floyd. Too finicky, not reliable enough, just plain overengineered. Get a Tremol-no and be done with it.



I disagree. Anyone who's ever setup a kahler knows they are WAY quicker and easier. There's nothing finicky about them, they are much more setup friendly than a floyd.

However, steering back to the ops question, the required neck angle of a floyd and kahler are different, so without measuring the guitar simple answer is no, it won't be a quick fix, will require woodwork which requires templates you cannot buy (I've had to make my own) to recess the kahler to floyd angle depth. It would also require woodwork to full the floyd route as well.

Either install a tremol-no or block the floyd so it cannot move with a couple chunks of timber.


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## Grindspine (Apr 11, 2014)

Blocking the Floyd licensed bridge or putting in a trem stabilizer (I like the WD stabilizer, personally) would be a better option. As stated above, a Kahler has a different route than a Floyd.

Tremolo Stabilizers


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## Le Jeff (Apr 11, 2014)

I guess my link went unnoticed. If you can't setup a Floyd in under 10 minutes you're not doing it properly. Check out the link I posted.

Floyd, Kahler? All easy to setup once you've been educated.


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## ElysianGuitars (Apr 11, 2014)

demonx said:


> I disagree. Anyone who's ever setup a kahler knows they are WAY quicker and easier. There's nothing finicky about them, they are much more setup friendly than a floyd.
> 
> However, steering back to the ops question, the required neck angle of a floyd and kahler are different, so without measuring the guitar simple answer is no, it won't be a quick fix, will require woodwork which requires templates you cannot buy (I've had to make my own) to recess the kahler to floyd angle depth. It would also require woodwork to full the floyd route as well.
> 
> Either install a tremol-no or block the floyd so it cannot move with a couple chunks of timber.


Every single string having that crap ass system for height/intonation adjustment disagrees with your post. Don't even get me started on the fact you have to keep those shitty rollers lubed up regularly, or the fact the damned things suck at returning to tune. They're terrible devices.


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## Le Jeff (Apr 12, 2014)

ElysianGuitars said:


> Every single string having that crap ass system for height/intonation adjustment disagrees with your post. Don't even get me started on the fact you have to keep those shitty rollers lubed up regularly, or the fact the damned things suck at returning to tune. They're terrible devices.


 Judging by the fact that some professionals, such as Jerry Cantrell, use Kahlers over Floyds we can deduce that your opinion is just conjecture. Jason Becker had Kahlers on both his main guitars and I don't recall ever having seen any videos where he was out of tune.


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## Eliguy666 (Apr 12, 2014)

I abhor my guitar's Kahler, but I dislike Floyds even more. Just block it, the Kahler would only be a partial fix at best.

The Kahler is easier to set up than a Floyd, but more likely to go out of tune, and less comfortable.

If you can, really, just replace the trem cavity with a block of wood and put a hipshot or something on top instead.


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## Hollowway (Apr 12, 2014)

Yeah, Kahlers are easier to set up in that they aren't as hard to balance the first time, but that's about it. The saddles aren't fixed in position laterally, meaning that you need to fuss with them to get the correct string spacing (which I happen to like, aaas it gives more adjustability, but it certainly doesn't make it quicker or easier). Then you have to deal with rollers that may not return accurately to position without lubricant, and many say you need to solder the windings on the strings to keep them from slipping out of tune. In contrast, a Floyd has none of those things. The very first time you install a Floyd you have to spend some time getting it set up, but it's a cake walk after that.
I don't doubt that a lot of people like Kahlers. It's kind of a circular argument to say that they're good because people like them, because if people didn't like them they wouldn't exist. But I will say that once you learn how to set up a Floyd it's simple. And no one disputes the ability of an OFR to stay in tune. Many dispute the ability of a Kahler to do so. That doesn't mean that everyone should switch from Kahlers to Floyds. But it also doesn't mean the opposite.


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## demonx (Apr 12, 2014)

The first thing I say if someone is having tuning problems with a kahler is use a Floyd Style locknut. Even Kahler themselves now offer a floyd style locknut. 

The old Kahler locknut after the bone nut thing was ridiculous and the source of most people tuning issues. That is no longer a problem.

I myself have used both the Floyd/Schaller style locknuts and the new Kahler style and I personally prefer the Floyd/Schaller ones. It's purely a cosmetic thing as they are styled a bit nicer, however when it comes bridges I choose Kahler everytime, however next year I hope to introduce a different line of guitars and I was thinking of using OFR's on them to keep the floyd guys happy.


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## Uziel (Apr 14, 2014)

I ordered a tremol-no today as that seems to be the quickest option given that I use multiple tunings often. I am going put more effort into learning how to set up my system however. Thanks everyone that took the time to reply!


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## Rubbishplayer (Apr 19, 2014)

Probably late to the party, but having guitars with Kahlers, Edge's and Floyds, I feel qualified to offer an opinion:

1. Each have their (minimal) pro's and con's but frankly, one isn't so much better than the other that it is worth replacing. 

2. True, you can lock a Kahler with the right model, but the price difference doesn't make it worth ditching a Floyd.

3. For me, the decision is more relevant when fitting a new trem either to a hard tail (e.g. Les Paul, which is easier with a Kahler) or to replace a basic model (e.g. cheap Strat, where a Floyd would be easier).

4. Someone mentioned a post by G Frudua and I can definitely plus one that. If you have problems with your trem, go here: FruduaTv - YouTube and learn how to do it properly. He covers Floyds and even classic Fender trems. He's got the best set up videos I've seen too. I struggled for years before I finally asked someone who knew. I guess its linked to that part of guys' brains that prevents us from asking directions.


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## jco5055 (Aug 21, 2014)

Not to revive an old thread, but it seems easier than creating my own. If I wanted to replace my floyd rose with a kahler, couldn't I just buy the appropriate adapter plates from wammiworld and that's that, since the floyd needs more routing there's no need to rout more?


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## cardinal (Aug 21, 2014)

I'd be somewhat concerned about the neck angle. The Kahler sits up kinda high. If your guitar had a recessed Floyd, the neck angle may be too flat. No big deal for a bolt on. Very big deal for a set neck or neck through.


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## jco5055 (Aug 21, 2014)

cardinal said:


> I'd be somewhat concerned about the neck angle. The Kahler sits up kinda high. If your guitar had a recessed Floyd, the neck angle may be too flat. No big deal for a bolt on. Very big deal for a set neck or neck through.



What if it's a regular Floyd?


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## cardinal (Aug 22, 2014)

jco5055 said:


> What if it's a regular Floyd?



A guitar with a non-recessed Floyd probably has a pretty high neck angle. So I'd think you'd be OK. If the neck angle is too high, you actually can get "stacker plates" to put under the Kahler to lift it up. But I don't think the neck angle would be too low. This is my guess, but I've never retrofitted a Kahler and am hardly an expert.


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## jco5055 (Aug 22, 2014)

cardinal said:


> A guitar with a non-recessed Floyd probably has a pretty high neck angle. So I'd think you'd be OK. If the neck angle is too high, you actually can get "stacker plates" to put under the Kahler to lift it up. But I don't think the neck angle would be too low. This is my guess, but I've never retrofitted a Kahler and am hardly an expert.



I'm just trying to figure out if puttin a Kahler in a previous FR guitar isn't just adapter plate+trem; you know if I need routing or if I can easily do it myself.


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## cardinal (Aug 22, 2014)

jco5055 said:


> I'm just trying to figure out if puttin a Kahler in a previous FR guitar isn't just adapter plate+trem; you know if I need routing or if I can easily do it myself.



You will need to route for the Kahler. There are springs underneath the bridge that need a cavity to sit in, and the spot on the top of the guitar from the Floyd is not big enough.


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## jco5055 (Aug 22, 2014)

cardinal said:


> You will need to route for the Kahler. There are springs underneath the bridge that need a cavity to sit in, and the spot on the top of the guitar from the Floyd is not big enough.



I guess looking at my brother's 100-dollar Rondo Les Paul with LFR (I sold my guitar that had an OFR), I thought I'd need no routing since there is more routing for a FR compared to a Kahler, but it appears that some routing would be needed for the little space closest to the pickups.


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## cardinal (Aug 23, 2014)

jco5055 said:


> I guess looking at my brother's 100-dollar Rondo Les Paul with LFR (I sold my guitar that had an OFR), I thought I'd need no routing since there is more routing for a FR compared to a Kahler, but it appears that some routing would be needed for the little space closest to the pickups.



Yeah, the Floyd requires more routing as a whole, but for a non-recessed Floyd, most of the routing is on the back of the guitar for the springs. With a Kahler, you have to route the top of the guitar, because that's where its springs need to go. So if the guitar already has a non-recessed Floyd, you'd need to route even more to install a Kahler.


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## Ron Head (Aug 26, 2014)

Thinking about putting a Kahler 7 in my Ibanez 7321 ; i love tremelos , i like both Floyd and Kahler , and i have not yet have an Ibanez 7 stringer with a Kahler , nor have i seen one yet ...( there must be a couple yeah , i haven't been really searching for some to see )

Got me an original Ibby 7 lockingnut allready ; most definatly the guitar needs some new routing/filling at the head/neck , but it always worked out just fine on my 8ers , the guitar is allready been supplied with EMGs and a batterybox on the back ( for comfort) , at the time i had no plans for installing a trem , now that batterybox would ruin the plans for a Floyd , but since i like to have an Ibby 7 with a Kahler ( toprouting only ) , i'm convinced it'll be a great addition to my experiences ....


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