# HELP: rehersal room set up



## cronux (Sep 17, 2012)

hello fellow sevenstringers 

here's my dilemma 

my band recently recruited a new band member (another guitar player) so we ran into a bit of a problem. we were a 4 piece band since 2007 and are tuned to drop A. it's great to have another guitar in the band but now our rehearsal space sounds like "hsss hs hsssss hsss shssssssss" (random "metal" hissing) in other words it's not really defined. 

here's our equipment:

bass - ibanez btb 5 string, line 6 lowdown hd400, homemade 2x15 box 
guitar 1 - schecter hellraiser 7 string (EMG707), Laney LX120R Head + Laney cab, a zoom procesor (one of those old ones, a biiig block with a tube)
guitar 2 - jackson cow7 (SD Blackout), Line 6 spidervalve MKII hd100, randall cab

questions:

1. what way is best to place the instruments in the room (drums, amp and guitar cabs) so we can hear our selves play?
2. being in drop a and not really having a budget for better equipment what amp values (treble, bass, gain etc.) would you recommend to get a more defined sound?
3. any other tips would be useful 

tnx! 

p.s. here's a soundcloud clip of one of our songs for you to hear what we're going for in terms of sound

ThroaTTwisteR - Body Bag by ThroaTTwisteR on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

NOTE: this is not a "listen to my band etc." rant. if you want to listen it ok, if not don't - the point is we need help with our rehersal room sound, so this is not self-promotion in disguise


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## Ghost40 (Sep 18, 2012)

Not really knowing your room setup as is now, I'll just go through how my band has it set up. 

We have about a 10x20 room from an old automotive shop that we rent out. The shop was converted over to a storage building of sorts. First thing we did was lay down carpet on the floor, and walls. Added plywood to the ceiling since it was open, then hung a lightweight carpet up there. I think with the wood, it costs us about $100. We have the drums centered against the back wall, my half stack to the right, the bassists' rig to the left of the drummer, almost "in-line" with where he sits. We have the PA speakers hung up, just over head level by the guitar and bass rigs. With the PA controls by the singer. And the three of us stand in front of drummer, about 10 feet away. If you are having trouble hearing yourselves, and your just in a small room, someone maybe be too loud, then others turn up, and before you know it, the cops are there, the neighbours are pissed and the goat is pregnant. 

We "normalize" our sound starting with the bass drum, the bassists is slightly louder than that. I am slightly louder than the snare, and the singer slightly more.... This may not work for everybody, but it does for us. 

As far as hissing, from what your describing this sounds like typical high-gain amp hiss. I have a very slight hissing, I run a Boss NS-1 right before my amp input (Marshall JVM 2000) and one in the effects loop after my g major. The bassist runs a noise gate just before the input of his amp as well. We have very little hiss. I also make it a point to utilize the volume control on my guitar in between songs or when I am not playing. 

What kind of volume levels are you using in your practice space? Higher volume = greater hiss. You guys shouldn't be playing club volumes in your practice space. IF you are having to turn your amps up that loud to over power the drummer, then maybe your drummer should exercise control. I don't know what the bassist turns up at, but I don't go past about 4. And even live, usually about the same. 

Are you guys cutting yours mids? If you are, that will suck the guitar right out of the live mix too. 

If the above doesn't stop the hiss, plug your guitar straight into the amp without any pedals. And add them one by one until you find your culprit. Could be wires? Maybe. A lot of factors. As I stated above, sounds like high gain to me. Whats your gain set at? Are you dimming it? You really need less gain than you think you do.


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## cronux (Sep 19, 2012)

finally a reply 

here's our room layout (as you can see, i'm a master of paint)







the room is 10x10 meters (about so), uneven ceiling, 3 concrete walls and one made of wood. guitar amps are on tables, about 1m high and the bass rig is basically a 1.60m 2x15 box. the singers monitor (only one) is let's say, leveled with the guitar amps in terms of hight. getting a decent sound was not a problem in the past, but with another guitar in the room things changed. 

i think it's the second guitar player's rig. it's a transistor amp and we tune in drop a. on higher volumes my low-end and his highs just eat each other up. i guess we have to work on volume and amp parameters. 

here's a couple more questions:

1. do you think that our room layout is ok?
2. do do 2 (what a choice of words ) amp's have to sound identical? in terms of gain, mids etc.? 
3. what sort of sound do you go for the bass amp? 

and tnx a bunch!


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## Ghost40 (Sep 19, 2012)

1. Layout looks okay. I don't see anything wrong with it. My next question was are the amps angled up towards you, but since you said they were about a meter high. Might be a little low, maybe angle them towards your ears a bit more. You'll be able to hear them better at lower volumes. 

2. I don't believe they have to sound identical. You want each amp to be EQ'd for the best sound to your ears. Theres no "rules", its music! But you want them with enough mids that they aren't lost in the mix. If your using two different amps, especially one tube, one solidstate, theres going to be differences in volume and such. Remember tube amps are perceived louder at lower volumes. 

3. My bassist has a "dirty" sound. Think Tool-esque. Hes running a custom built cabinet with a (i think) 600 watt carvin tube head. 

When we auditioned a second guitarist, the guy came in with a Peavey 2x12 combo amp. It was a 120 watt something-or-the-other. I remember it being really fizzy, and really noisy. He couldn't get it up to the volumes we were at. At the time I was going through an Orange TH100 and a Marshall 1960 cab. There was no EQ in the world helping him though.


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## cronux (Sep 19, 2012)

tnx man, we'll see what we can do


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## cronux (Sep 20, 2012)

update:

we tried to get the volume level that you've recommended and it worked like a charm! the only thing is to get a more defined bass sound, and another monitor for our singer but in time that will be addressed 

tnx!


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## Luke Acacia (Sep 24, 2012)

These days I find bass players all going for this click style sound, especially in the tech death bands around my area and its making me so sad. I like a bass player that makes their sound fat and filled out rather than trying to make it sound like a drum.
Once a bass player has found a nice wide tone I think they can be heard and felt alot more than a bass player trying to steal everyone elses frequencies.


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## Ghost40 (Sep 24, 2012)

Luke Acacia said:


> These days I find bass players all going for this click style sound, especially in the tech death bands around my area and its making me so sad. I like a bass player that makes their sound fat and filled out rather than trying to make it sound like a drum.
> Once a bass player has found a nice wide tone I think they can be heard and felt alot more than a bass player trying to steal everyone elses frequencies.



I know the feeling man. It is sad...

Glad to hear it worked out (no pun intended).


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## Given To Fly (Sep 24, 2012)

One thing you can do just as a starting point is turn the treble down, like almost off, on the guitar amps. It may not sound like you want but it will get rid of the high frequency noise and allow you to hear each other better. Then I would adjust the EQ from there. Your description sounds like a situation I was in while working with an electric guitar quartet. During a 3 hour rehearsal each member would gradually turn everything up, especially the highs, because off ear fatigue. When I got there all I could literally hear was a wash of white noise. Bringing the treble down helped a lot.


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## McKay (Sep 27, 2012)

Always have the drums facing the PA. A great trick is to have the cabs facing the drummer and to stand behind the cabs to practice. WOW you can suddenly hear the drummer over the mess of noise. Enjoy being able to hear him play out of time and being able to correct him. This is much closer to how the audience hears you.

It's a workaround sure but it's a great one.


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## Moltar (Oct 8, 2012)

McKay said:


> Always have the drums facing the PA. A great trick is to have the cabs facing the drummer and to stand behind the cabs to practice. WOW you can suddenly hear the drummer over the mess of noise. Enjoy being able to hear him play out of time and being able to correct him. This is much closer to how the audience hears you.
> 
> It's a workaround sure but it's a great one.



If the drummer is playing out of time, you shouldn't be the one 'correcting' him. The drummer IS the time, he is the metronome. If he is out of time then he needs to correct himself so that everyone can follow. Nothing drives me nuts more than a drummer trying to follow guitar playing.


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