# US Marines Urinate on dead Taliban Soldiers



## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

I am sure we have all heard of the story hitting the press today.

BBC News - Taliban denounce &#039;US Marines body desecration&#039; video

We should be better than this in the West, alot of these Taliban fighters will fight because of brainwashing from an early age by religeon. Its not my place to say they are wrong but If we expect to get these people to see reason they should be treated as equal to anyone from the West, not in this such a disgraceful way.

Also understand there are strong feelings on both sides of this conflict, I am not saying either side is without blame but acts like this will never help to bring piece.

Irresponsible actions beyond belief from these Marines, I wont link the video as I am sure you can find it to watch if you wish.

Discuss.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

I watched it on BBC early this morning, and man I was at a loss for words.
I will not tolerate such acts when the US focuses its attention on asia.


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

I would not expect such acts from any Armed force from any country. These are suppose to be well trained men representing their country, I know in this case it may be down to these individuals but its really not on imo.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Jontain said:


> I would not expect such acts from any Armed force from any country. These are suppose to be well trained men representing their country, I know in this case it may be down to these individuals but its really not on imo.



You know war used to be a respectful thing. You had 2 sides at war, and when it was night/time to call it a day they would meet up and chill out together, bid farewell and get back to their posts to fight each other the next day. When people died, they would give respect to the body/dying. They died in a honourable way. Not by getting bombed/blasted by mines.


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

Indeed, the lack of honour most people live by today is disgraceful.


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> You know war used to be a respectful thing. You had 2 sides at war, and when it was night/time to call it a day they would meet up and chill out together, bid farewell and get back to their posts to fight each other the next day. When people died, they would give respect to the body/dying. They died in a honourable way. Not by getting bombed/blasted by mines.



Hmm, war has never been honourable, already in the middle ages, soldiers focused on terrorizing the civilians, because through civilians, you get to the enemy.
Is it more honourable to be shredded to pieces by a grape-shot than to step on a mine? Get an arrow in your gut rather than a bullet?
And have you heard about the once oh-so-popular scorched earth tactic? That is indeed a very _honourable_ way conduct...
History has a way of whitewashing events, and we tend to forget that, for example, biological warfare was invented during the roman empire and soldiers had the nastiest ways of lighting each other on fire or creative ways of mutilation long before the invention of black powder.

Have you heard about the siege of Caffa on the Chrimean Peninsula in 1347? That is were the black death epidemic of Europe started, claiming about 45% of everyone in Europe.
It came to pass that the mongols were besiegeing the city, when mongols started to die. We now know that the black plague in endemic to asia, to be precise China, were the mongols come from. So what did the mongols do? They loaded their siege engines with the bodies and fired them over the walls, and then left.
They did no longer care about taking the city, they just wanted to kill anyone within, and they used biological warfare to do it, does that sound honourable to you?
Mutiliating dead enemy soldiers (and leave them out for the enemy to find) was a common way of draining the morale of an enemy fighting force. For example, the infamous head on a spike.
Raining liquid fire upon your enemy, is that honourable? How is lighting someone with an unquenchable fire showing respect for your enemy?

No, the brutality of war has not increased, but we have gotten more and more efficient with killing each other. Man did not become a monster as soon as we had black powder, or knew how to make an atomic bomb. There has always been people willing to do horrible things to each other, and no amount of invention is ever going to accelerate, or satiate, that drive.
Remember, there were no Geneva-convention in the olden days.



As for the thread, disgraceful behavior by that marine. In a way, I can see why he did it, but that is no excuse.


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

Barbaric.


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## Blake1970 (Jan 12, 2012)

How is this as bad as a U.S. soldier being hanged and dragged through the streets on display?? I'm not condoning their actions, but seriously?? The bodies they are pissing on if alive would kill them in a heartbeat and probably do much worse. This is just my opinion.


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

Blake1970 said:


> How is this as bad as a U.S. soldier being hanged and dragged through the streets on display??



When did somebody say it was and since when do two wrongs make a right?


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## Blake1970 (Jan 12, 2012)

Randy said:


> When did somebody say it was and since when do two wrongs make a right?




You are absolutely correct it does not make it right. Im not in their shoes so I dont know what its like being shot at and someone wanting to kill me. War is not pretty and it never has been. I guess they can be politically correct and take the high road to make the whole world feel warm and fuzzy, but they were probably pissed off (no pun intended).


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

Blake1970 said:


> but they were probably pissed off (no pun intended).



It was pretty funny though


Yeah... I'm a horrible human being occasionally..


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakke said:


> Hmm, war has never been honourable, already in the middle ages, soldiers focused on terrorizing the civilians, because through civilians, you get to the enemy.
> Is it more honourable to be shredded to pieces by a grape-shot than to step on a mine? Get an arrow in your gut rather than a bullet?
> And have you heard about the once oh-so-popular scorched earth tactic? That is indeed a very _honourable_ way conduct...
> History has a way of whitewashing events, and we tend to forget that, for example, biological warfare was invented during the roman empire and soldiers had the nastiest ways of lighting each other on fire or creative ways of mutilation long before the invention of black powder.
> ...


 
^ Thank you for saving me a lot of typing! 

Sorry Iamasingularity... but... [cough]... Bataan... [cough].







Bataan Death March - A Survivor's Story: The Bataan Death March

Bataan Death March - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The UK... British war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Everyone else... List of war crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This idea that war is romantic and clean and actually follows some set of rules is ridiculous... You may try as a whole to adhere to the Laws of War/Hague/Geneva etc... but you will never control 100% of the actions down to the level of the individual. There will always be that F'ing 10% on both sides of any conflict...

(e.g. There's a reason why the US beat the British during the American Revolution... because we failed to follow the gentlemanly rules of war that Wellington adhered to.)


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

Blake1970 said:


> but they were probably pissed off (no pun intended).



Okay, so the fact that they KILLED them wasn't enough to quench that?


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

And all "let's try to be humane" stuff aside, doing something like this and letting it get put on video to be circulated is a great way to embolden the enemy.


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> This idea that war is romantic and clean and actually follows some set of rules is ridiculous... You may try as a whole to adhere to the Laws of War/Hague/Geneva etc... but you will never control 100% of the actions down to the level of the individual. There will always be that F'ing 10% on both sides of any conflict...



The only "gentlemanly" occurance I have heard of during a war was the christmas truce of 1914. And that only happened because there were close to zero animosity between combatants, they really did not hate each other, plainly spoken. Their commanding officers did not like it however


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

Just wanted to add in case it's not obvious how I feel...

This was fucking deplorable and they'd receive a session of wall-to-wall counseling if any of my Marines did something like that. That's the _least_ that would happen... believe me Marines do NOT allow fellow Marines to shit on 236 years of honor, courage, and commitment.  (i.e. think child rapist in prison)


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah I am sorry but any soldier or any warrior should live and work by a code of honour. Ever heard of Seppuku? that proves that for some honour stood above everything else.

As with everything it is down to the individual's morals, these soliders should be ashamed of their actions. 

I wonder if the opinion would be the same if this was a video of Taliban fighters urinating on dead US marines, how would that make you feel if a member of your family was killed and treated in this way? Reguardless of sides and who is right this is just plain wrong. Just because they are our troops doesnt mean they should be cleared to act in this way, its a disgrace to the US Army and everything they stand for.


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

Jontain said:


> Yeah I am sorry but any soldier or any warrior should lve and work by a code of honour. Ever heard of Seppuku, that proves that for some honour stood above everything else.



You know that the samurai was ruthless thugs in the beginning, right? It was first when they feudal lord had come in power that they needed to justify their existance (than being mere thugs), so they started to do poetry, invented a code of honour... But it was born out of nescessity, not a sense of honour. 
They were most of all taxfarmers, and I'll leave it to you to imagine if they extended their "honour" towards the peasants they extracted taxes from...


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 12, 2012)

It's things like this that kinda make my sympathise with the Taliban and groups like them. Don't get me wrong, they're fucking insane barbarians, but I feel like that's mostly because we made them that way and if we were more concious about our actions then maybe things might be better. It's like fuelling the fire. The Taliban use incidents like this to further strengthen the image of the reckless Western world, and sign up new recruits. To allow things like this to happen is counter-productive, and those responsible need to be punished not just because of the political issues it could raise, but purely because of the offence it causes. If you treat your enemy with respect, then perhaps they will start to wonder whether they're on the right side.


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## jymellis (Jan 12, 2012)

i dont condone their actions, but war is ugly. when you give someone a gun, and the power to kill. alot of "human" feelings are lost. as for the respectful war? one that sticks out in my head is the U.s. governement handing out disease infected blankets and clothing to native american refugees and survivors of "war".


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakke said:


> The only "gentlemanly" occurance I have heard of during a war was the christmas truce of 1914. And that only happened because there were close to zero animosity between combatants, they really did not hate each other, plainly spoken. Their commanding officers did not like it however


 
Haha yeah... crazy. During Korea it was something like 40 below with windchill one night up by the Chosin Reservoir... The US Marines lit fires in trash barrels (usually against orders... fire discipline in effect at night) to try and survive the night. Guns were frozen and wouldn't fire anyways. The Chinese came out of the mountains and stood next to the Marines to get warm lol. They went back up into the mountains later and the next day went back to fighting.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

I don`t know what to say...
You guys interpreted my comments as if I was unaware of previous wars/genocide/horrific acts humans have done over the course of history. Thanks for the interesting read, but what I wanted to point out that we all are the same, humans. We all have families, we all have homes, we all have so much in common yet we lack the depth to realize that we are all humans, the ones supposed to be civil and understanding /) So I do agree that all wars (most) have never been worth dying for, but that does not justify the disrespect 
happening here. Moveing on....


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## decypher (Jan 12, 2012)

If you begin to justify one war crime with another, you can just as well go the whole way and disregard human rights entirely...

I'm just glad that the viral internet character makes videos like this go around the world within a few hours.


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> I don`t know what to say...
> You guys interpreted my comments as if I was unaware of previous wars/genocide/horrific acts humans have done over the course of history. Thanks for the interesting read, but what I wanted to point out that we all are the same, humans. We all have families, we all have homes, we all have so much in common yet we lack the depth to realize that we are all humans, the ones supposed to be civil and understanding /) So I do agree that all wars (most) have never been worth dying for, but that does not justify the disrespect
> happening here. Moveing on....



Yes, I'm sorry but you made a sweeping generalization (people fighting yesterday had honour), if people then show that it was not a very well thought out statement, I think it's relevant.

I agree with the sentiment, but not the presentation.


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jontain said:


> Yeah I am sorry but any soldier or any warrior should live and work by a code of honour. Ever heard of Seppuku? that proves that for some honour stood above everything else.


 
Huh? Ever heard of _Bataan_? Check several posts above.



Jontain said:


> I wonder if the opinion would be the same if this was a video of Taliban fighters urinating on dead US marines, how would that make you feel if a member of your family was killed and treated in this way? Reguardless of sides and who is right this is just plain wrong. Just because they are our troops doesnt mean they should be cleared to act in this way, its a disgrace to the US Army and everything they stand for.


 
No they just air public beheadings... after the EPW has been tortured for weeks. By the way, is anyone here saying this action was OK or are you just playing devil's advocate? No one is _clearing them_ for this. 


And Iamasingularity... wasn't trying to specifically pick on the Japanese... most old-timer Marines I've talked to said the Japanese were the best and most fearless warriors they ever fought. Every country has its moments they're not proud of... here its been since 11/22/63... but that's a different story.

Vampiregenocide...


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> And Iamasingularity... wasn't trying to specifically pick on the Japanese..



I didn't even think of that.. Of course we are not picking on the japanese, well, my country spent 800 years invading its neighbours, almost *every* year, you can ask Finland what they think of us... (You'll also hear that all swedes are gay, but that is another story)


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Jontain said:


> Yeah I am sorry but any soldier or any warrior should live and work by a code of honour. Ever heard of Seppuku? that proves that for some honour stood above everything else.



I don`t know where people get this from, perhaps movies or something, but Seppuku was never honorable. Seppuku=Suicide thats it. Many people who were ashamed/couldn`t live with their actions/lost their friends/broke a law would impose that on themselves or be forced to do by pressure. I would understand Kamikaze pilots dieing with honor for their country, but Seppuku`s honor is as good as today`s japanese salarymen jumping out of their windows to their death.



USMarine75 said:


> And Iamasingularity... wasn't trying to specifically pick on the Japanese... most old-timer Marines I've talked to said the Japanese were the best and most fearless warriors they ever fought. Every country has its moments they're not proud of... here its been since 11/22/63... but that's a different story.



Nahh I didn`t feel like you were targeting me. As for the rest I can agree with that.


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> I don`t know where people get this from, perhaps movies or something, but Seppuku was never honorable. Seppuku=Suicide thats it. Many people who were ashamed/couldn`t live with their actions/lost their friends/broke a law would impose that on themselves or be forced to do by pressure. I would understand Kamikaze pilots dieing with honor for their country, but Seppuku`s honor is as good as today`s japanese salarymen jumping out of their windows to their death.



And Japan still has one of the highest frequencies of suicide in the world, sadly.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakke said:


> And Japan still has one of the highest frequencies of suicide in the world, sadly.



Its high, but we`re not on the top anymore:

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

Lithuania? I did not see that one coming...


I heard about a forest outside Tokyo where people come to die in droves... That cannot be a merry place..


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> Haha yeah... crazy. During Korea it was something like 40 below with windchill one night up by the Chosin Reservoir... The US Marines lit fires in trash barrels (usually against orders... fire discipline in effect at night) to try and survive the night. Guns were frozen and wouldn't fire anyways. The Chinese came out of the mountains and stood next to the Marines to get warm lol. They went back up into the mountains later and the next day went back to fighting.



That sort of thing is crazy

I also noted that Hitler (corporal) was adamantly against the christmas truce...


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakke said:


> Lithuania? I did not see that one coming...
> 
> 
> I heard about a forest outside Tokyo where people come to die in droves... That cannot be a merry place..



Its called Jukai or Aokigahara, its near my hometown and its interesting.
I go there to report dead bodies, visit caves, explore the area and so on:

Aokigahara - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

Yeah, I looked it up.. Grim...


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jakke - don't destroy Finland until after my Flaxwood warranty is up... I doubt anyone in the US knows how to fix a guitar made of drywall. But, your country did give the world delicious meatballs and In Flames, so you have earned the right to invade a few countries, might I suggest Denmark (nobody likes them).







Iamasingularity - How could we _*NOT*_ love Japan...


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> Jakke - don't destroy Finland until after my Flaxwood warranty is up... I doubt anyone in the US knows how to fix a guitar made of drywall. But, your country did give the world delicious meatballs and In Flames, so you have earned the right to invade a few countries, might I suggest Denmark (nobody likes them).





How gracious of you, but since Finland has been in war during modern times, they have a large standing army, we have not.
So I fear it would be the reversed situation in case of any armed conflicts.

Denmark is a completely different thing however, I should probably not reveal to much, but *wink wink*...


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## K-Roll (Jan 12, 2012)

war..war never changes.. 

the only difference between now and then is that 40 years ago they did not have ipods and digital cameras to quickly take a pic. don't get me wrong but this is war, such displays are usual.. I am not a fan of war, I never will.. is it better to rape a woman and her 4 daughters while other guys burn down the whole city? is it worse to cheer out loud when a drone bombs the shit out of a whole mountain? 

don't get me wrong but let's think of who is the occupant in that country and who is the guerillas fighting for their truth and freedom.. (in this case which truth is the good one and which freedom is the correct one?) 
these things will happen always forever and ever as long as we will be fighting each other.. 

US soldiers are fighting cause they are paid for it, resolving political games of those who never had to seize an arm.. those shitty talibans with AKs at least fight for a cause.. if it were my country, I'd fight, too..

I think I won't be far from reality if iI said - in a year's time we will see similar pics of US soldiers pissing on Iranian corpses.. cause there's the whole uranium thingy going on  you know.. just like in Iraq and their chemical weaponry.. or was there none? hmm.. weird..


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

^ Are glass houses expensive in Slovakia? ... 

STOP STATE RACISM IN EUROPE, CONDEMN SLOVAKIA!


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

Ok so i was obviously short sighted using the Seppuku reference but are your trying to tell me that no one who is part of an army believes and lives by a code of honour...? I find that hard to believe and giving someone a gun should come with ALOT of responsibility and not mean they can forget their morals, thats just absurd.

I am not trying to stir but it impossible for many to see the point of view of Taliban fighters without growing up in their culture (again no justifying their actions but did you know they choose to behead as they believe there is more respect shown to a man if you behead him than if you shoot him in the back of the head?).

I dont live in a world of lolly-pops and daisy's, I am aware that with War comes suffering of many kinds, but as mentioned in a world of media where a video like this can spread wildfire should people not be more aware of the moral fibre of their actions?

An in reguards to vamp's point he is right to an extend, ok it may not be as clear cut as that but german captives in WW2 were given good treatment in UK prisions, much better than the otherside gave and alot of them wanted to stay afterwards because of their treatment even through war.

War never changes, but the people fighting them need to if this is how they act, its as pathetic as the whole tea bagging thing in gaming etc, its just a way for that marine to feel he is better than those he has killed which spells fighting for all the wrong reasons to me.

But hey maybe I am just wishing for too much from the people I inhabbit this world with, but would war not be 'better' (using that word loosly) if people did fight with honour and not greed and ego?


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

I swear all the threads I visit about stuff like this always ends up in a fucked up tandjent lol. Oh well.... back to meshuggah.


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

^ Jontain


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> ^ Jontain


 
Apologise If I am causing offence? it is not intended in that way?

I understand how alot of people would never empathise with a member of a group like the taliban, and I cant say I do but I have not seen things from their side so I would not like to comment on their behalf... if that makes sense?

*awaits tidal wave of neg reps....


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Ok lets all just chill out and handle this in a civil way. I still want to participate in this thread, and we would be losing a lot of information/views from others on this topic if it were to be closed because we`re acting like little bitches.


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree with most of the sentiment in the thread, and also agree with Randy that 2 wrongs don't make a right.

But this doesn't bother me much at all because I also remember when they cut the heads off those US reporters on TV.


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree, It should be known that I would never state my opinion as fact and I feel I have ruffled a few feathers because I always like to try and put myself in others shoes before forming an opinion.

If I had my way wars would be settled by a game of conkers...


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> I agree with most of the sentiment in the thread, and also agree with Randy that 2 wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> But this doesn't bother me much at all because I also remember when they cut the heads off those US reporters on TV.



True, we should just be more reselient and not become what they are. I`m sure 
Marines don`t go chopping off taliban heads on video, but we`re not much different if we show disrespect. This however is far from the scale of executing reporters on TV, but still serious.


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

^ Yeah I think that says it quite well, giving them more fuel doesnt help our own cause and if anything makes theirs cause to other potential Taliban stronger, and when its something that could have easily be avoided such as this recent incident a bit more common sense would not go amiss.


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> But this doesn't bother me much at all because I also remember when *they* cut the heads off those US reporters on TV.



_They_? Like, the dead people they're pissing on? The family of the deceased that are getting pissed on?


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Randy said:


> _They_? Like, the dead people they're pissing on? The family of the deceased that are getting pissed on?



Lol.


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jontain said:


> Apologise If I am causing offence? it is not intended in that way?
> 
> I understand how alot of people would ever struggle to empathise with a member of a group like the taliban, and I cant say I do but I have not seen things from their side so I would not like to comment on their behalf... if that makes sense?
> 
> *awaits tidal wave of neg reps....


 
Haha not me... I'm not angry lol... plus I sign my neg rep!  I'll always debate this kind of shit with people...

Someone above made the apropos point that guerilla warfare is all about your perspective... if you're on their side then they're freedom fighters. Hell, the American Revolution was guerilla warfare! 

But to empathize with the Taliban is born of ignorance (I dont mean that in a condescending way I just cant think of a better explanation) of the politics of the region. I've spent a lot of time there and maybe we have some locals that can chime in, but the talibani are not well liked. They aren't even all Afghani man are Pakistani or expatriate Afghani. The Taliban started as militarized students that swept into the region after the power void that was left when the Soviets retreated and the post-Soviet government faltered. They took a democratic, but loosely ruled country and instituted their version of a 7th century Caliphate under Mullah Omar. The list of crimes against humanity under their rule is quite large and the Taliban were not even officially recognized as the true government of Afganistan by many countries (e.g. many countries didn't even have diplomatic relatios). 

Anyways, I love debating about this area of the world and the US involvement. Our country was actually born out of issues with the Middle East (Our states did NOT want to be federalized. They wanted independence. One of the only reasons they agreed to federalize was to have a federal Navy to defend the States economic interests (i.e. ships) in the Middle East from pirates... great read--> Power, Faith, and Fantasy: America in the Middle East: 1776 to the Present - Program for Jewish Civilization - Georgetown University)

Back to Afganistan... The US definitely created a (mostly unjustified) clusterfuck with Iraq ('The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11,' by Lawrence Wright - The New York Times Book Review - New York Times)... but, we had justification to invade Afganistan. Simply put, the US (like it or not) has a policy that state-sponsored terrorism makes that state responisble for the actions of the terrorists. Mullah Omar (reluctantly at times) allowed Al-Qaeda and UBL to operate within its borders and refused to surrender him to Saudi Arabia after he tried to kill their king, and also refused to surrender him to the US for 9/11. Ergo, the US chose to invade (and IMO it was justified). I havent seen too many people fairly decry our involvement there, in fact many complain that we abandoned the real justified war there in favor of that mess in Iraq.


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## renzoip (Jan 12, 2012)

Also, we shouldn't measure the taliban and the us marines by the same standards. One is supposed to be a prestigious institution, and one is supposed to be a terrorist organization. One is on a mission to bring security and freedom, and the other one is on a mission to bring fear and oppression. One is supposed to be rational, the other is supposed to be barbaric; so on and so forth... So, us marine standards are absolute, not relative to those of their enemies. So, I condemn what these scumbags (the young men urinating on the dead bodies) are doing. After all, this is supposed to be a mission, not a gang war.


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

^^Yeah, the talibans aren't exactly heroes of the people in Afghanistan. Compare it to if WBC would take up arms and become a paramilitary guerilla, would all americans support them? Of course not! I'd say 99% of them would take up arms against WBC!

The afghanis have done that, by joining the police or the military.


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## Blake1970 (Jan 12, 2012)

Randy said:


> _They_? Like, the dead people they're pissing on? The family of the deceased that are getting pissed on?




No one is pissing on the family of the deceased  The soldiers are just pissing on some terrorist that would like to kill them. It's war and it's ugly. I think it's much worse to see a family member get there head cut off on TV and not be able to do anything about it. I'm sure if I lost a loved one like that I would most certainly piss on the terrorist that did and much worse.


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> Haha not me... I'm not angry lol...
> 
> 
> > I agree with your full sentiment and can understand and respect that is your point of view.
> ...


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

^Such is the fate of.... *The Devil's Advocate*. *Credits go in*


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jontain said:


> ^ Yeah I think that says it quite well, giving them more fuel doesnt help our own cause and if anything makes theirs cause to other potential Taliban stronger, and when its something that could have easily be avoided such as this recent incident a bit more common sense would not go amiss.


 
^ Sorry for all my rambling I'll STFU if no one is interested... but... just wanted to throw this out there to add to your good point:

Osama bin Laden several times almost gave up the life of terrorism and holy war because he just wanted to retire in Sudan, farm, and raise horses. Particularly, the bombings of the 2 US Embassies in 1998 (Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania) were a huge debacle for Al-Qaeda. They killed 200+ and injured 4000+. Almost all were Muslim. In Kenya a girl's secretarial school next door was leveled killing many innocent young girls. Only 12 Americans were killed. This was a huge discgrace for Al-Qaeda as they hadn't proclaimed that Takfiri actions were acceptable (Takfir is that its ok to kill innocent Muslims as long as it serves the greater good, also you can declare Muslims as infidels if they are not good Muslims in your opinion and then summarily kill them too). Many Al-Qaeda members (most were rich young professionals, doctors, engineers, etc) quit and went back to their home nations (Egypt, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, etc). Al-Qaeda was fractured and ready to dissolve. The Muslim world decried Al-Qaeda and they had NO popular support, financial support, or personnel support.

Then... enter the US.  We decided to retaliate. Two embassies = two cruise missile strikes. One at Khost, Afganistan (site of Al-Qaeda's #1 camp and where Osama was though to be) and one in Sudan site. End result is that Osama made a last minute decision not to go to Khost. This made him seem like he was invincible and a prophet because he somehow foretold the future and avoided death by America. Combined with his legendary surviving the Soviet strikes in Afganistan conflict he was now invincible - so the US strike created a popular hero from a monster. Also, several cruise missiles failed to detonate. One ended up in the hands of Pakistan and they now have US cruise missile tech. Even worse, Osama sold another one to Korea for $10 M. So, now they have US cruise missile tech AND Al-Qaeda had $10 M in funding.


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

Blake1970 said:


> No one is pissing on the family of the deceased  The soldiers are just pissing on some terrorist that would like to kill them. It's war and it's ugly. I think it's much worse to see a family member get there head cut off on TV and not be able to do anything about it. I'm sure if I lost a loved one like that I would most certainly piss on the terrorist that did and much worse.



That's the point. 'They' implies that these corpses that the marines were pissing on somehow (literally or symbolically...?) belong to the terrorists who beheaded Americans on camera. Now, I might be wrong but until I see evidence proving otherwise, I don't think these were the _actual_ terrorists who did that beheading. So... let's piss on everyone because now they're all responsible for it or because we're angry we can't piss on the people who actually did it? That logic serves justice how exactly?

FAMILY GUY REFERENCE

Wrestler: I must be in Quahog cause all i see is a bunch of hicks.

Peter: Oohh! You take that back, Macho Man Randy Savage, don't he make you so mad you just wanna go down there and hit him ?

Cleveland: No

Peter: Well maybe not him cause he's kinda big, but don't you wanna hit the guy sitting next to ya? Well not him cause he's kinda big too, but don't you wanna hit his kid.

*Peter strikes kid* Take that Macho Man Randy Savage ya jerk!


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## Jakke (Jan 12, 2012)

^^I did not know that, interesting for sure


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 12, 2012)

Randy said:


> _They_? Like, the dead people they're pissing on? The family of the deceased that are getting pissed on?


 
Surely the news reporters had family too.

This thread isn't about all they've done to us I guess, but more what we've done to them


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jontain said:


> I would never dream of taking someones point of view away from them, after all it is everyones right (IMO) to have an opinion. However its always prudent to try and view things from 'the other side', as a young man living in a *IRAQ* active area I can see how their opinion of any negative or anti-west thoughts is warped and used by *IRAQ*. I am probably digging myself a deeper hole here.... but all in the pursuit of healthy debate.


 
^ There... fixed that for you. Now I'm on board.


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 12, 2012)

Randy said:


> That's the point. 'They' implies that these corpses that the marines were pissing on somehow (literally or symbolically...?) belong to the terrorists who beheaded Americans on camera. Now, I might be wrong but until I see evidence proving otherwise, I don't think these were the _actual_ terrorists who did that beheading. So... let's piss on everyone because now they're all responsible for it or because we're angry we can't piss on the people who actually did it? That logic serves justice how exactly?


 
By this logic, why did they cut the heads of reporters and not US soldiers who are trying/have been killing them?


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## Blake1970 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good stuff Randy. I will just have to agree to disagree with you sir.


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> By this logic, why did they cut the heads of reporters and not US soldiers who are trying/have been killing them?



Because they're terrorist scum. Exact your revenge on _those_ specific individuals accordingly and handle confrontations with others in a nature that suits the context in which those conflicts are taking place.


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

Blake1970 said:


> Good stuff Randy. I will just have to agree to disagree with you sir.



So then defiling the bodies of everyone we kill over there is justified? I don't even know what we're agreeing to disagree over.


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> ^ Sorry for all my rambling I'll STFU if no one is interested... but... just wanted to throw this out there to add to your good point:


 

Very useful info that I personally wouldnt be able to read or seen, so well worth including imo.


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

^ that just makes me think of this...


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 12, 2012)

Randy said:


> Because they're terrorist scum. Exact your revenge on _those_ specific individuals accordingly and handle confrontations with others in a nature that suits the context in which those conflicts are taking place.


 
This is true. But it may prove difficult to hunt down specific people when the majority of them look alike and all brandish an AK47 wanting to kill you lol


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> the majority of them look alike



Oh, well, when you put it like that...


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 12, 2012)

Randy said:


> Oh, well, when you put it like that...


 

Dressed in garb, or similar uniforms with a weapon.

I bet it's easy to pick out US soldiers on the field too...

You've seen how they look and dress, this shouldnt be surprising bro

EDIT: Unless you think I was making a subtle racist remark, which I wasn't.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> This is true. But it may prove difficult to hunt down specific people when the majority of them look alike and all brandish an AK47 wanting to kill you lol



Good point. Its all in the eyes man.


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

... ok that view has left me pretty speechless ...

It might be better to say they have no uniform and dress in similar ware to normal civillians in the culture...

If you think all people from certain races and/or cultures 'look-alike' I personally dont think your looking hard enough.


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)




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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 12, 2012)

^^^ lolol 

the internet has refused to let everyone equally enjoy chicken


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 12, 2012)

Jontain said:


> ... ok that view has left me pretty speechless ...
> 
> It might be better to say they have no uniform and dress in similar ware to normal civillians in the culture...
> 
> If you think all people from certain races and/or cultures 'look-alike' I personally dont think your looking hard enough.



Yo, don`t take it so seriously man. He`s just being light, but honestly it actually is that hard to make out. They don`t exactly wear tigh ass jeans or hoodies, most of the clothing is just bland.


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 12, 2012)

Jontain said:


> If you think all people from certain races and/or cultures 'look-alike' I personally dont think your looking hard enough.


 

ummmm

how long does it take to realize someone is pointing a gun at you and wants to kill you?

I'm not really sure you have time, let alone may even be able to see his eyes from 2 streets down.

Have you seen any decent war movies by chance? It doesn't really work 'properly' like that dude.


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

^ They all looked like this to me


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## Randy (Jan 12, 2012)

I'd venture to guess you can locate more distinguishing features on somebody when you're hovering over the motionless corpse with your pants down.


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## Jontain (Jan 12, 2012)

I think a little better choice of words may have been all thats needed, I think I must have read into it in the wrong way.

Apologise on my part.


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## USMarine75 (Jan 12, 2012)

Update... 

Panetta blasts video of Marines urinating on dead - Yahoo! News


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 12, 2012)

If this enrages some of you, you don't even wanna know what my pops witnessed happen to some dead bodies in Vietnam. Thank god they didn't have much personal video capabilities back then...

It's very hard to look for sympathy against the enemy trying to kill us no matter the case, imo.

this is obviously a huge deal because they got busted. 

they shouldnt have pissed on the bodies and REALLY shouldnt have recorded it.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 12, 2012)

It's antics like that which make the people in occupied countries hate their "liberators". Especially when often there's little to no punishment for it.


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## BucketheadRules (Jan 12, 2012)

Appalling.

Bastards, I hope their military superiors do truly harrowing things to their anuses.


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## decypher (Jan 12, 2012)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> ...and REALLY shouldnt have recorded it.



I'm glad they did. That was the only good thing they DID do.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 13, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> Appalling.
> 
> Bastards, I hope their military superiors do truly harrowing things to their anuses.



And then we would have a case of sexual torture/harrasment....


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## K-Roll (Jan 13, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> ^ Are glass houses expensive in Slovakia? ...
> 
> STOP STATE RACISM IN EUROPE, CONDEMN SLOVAKIA!




I find the page in your link really amusing  I haven't noticed that shit here where I live, at all.. But I've sent it to at least 20 of my friends to post that stuff on their facebook, cause we love such ways of trolling 
keep them coming.. I can't decide whether it's the language or the content that I ROFL more about.. 

here's a brief list of comments of people who subscribred:
- hahaahha, that's what I call manipulation
- the best thing about it is the email address: [email protected]  [email protected]
- omg someone should be taken legally responsible for this, isn't there an international law at least? omg 
- I don't know which is more funny - the language or the history bullshit 'Slovakia has been founded in 1939 by Adolf Hitler'
- http://dagobah.net/flash/successful_troll.swf


thx and please carry on, mr. Crusader


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## BucketheadRules (Jan 13, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> And then we would have a case of sexual torture/harrasment....



Dude, didn't you detect even a hint of exaggeration?

It's appalling what they did, but I would never seriously advocate sexual torture, no matter how much the bastards deserve it...


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## synrgy (Jan 13, 2012)

My reaction to this topic is pretty much summed up by Chef in the following clip:

Difficult Anal-ysis (Season 6, Episode 8) - Video Clips - South Park Studios


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## LamaSabachthani (Jan 15, 2012)

It's all just miserable. The taleban are cunts, but just because we think people are deplorable doesn't mean we gain any particular sort of right to commit the same acts for which we view them with derision. I imagine it is probably scary in Afghanistan, always being on edge for so long, fraying the nerves, but if we don't have our ideals, what do we have? We hold ourselves to a higher standard - we let out reason command our passions. I'm sort of surprised by this because the USMC has been pretty free from scandal throughout the past 10 years compared to the Army. Hell, even the British army had its share of scandal, and even now our intelligence services appear to have left a paper trail linking them to rendition (such acts being viewed with extreme scepticism and derision in Europe, where we thought we had gotten rid of the knock in the middle of the night when the Nazis were defeated). It's a pity, because surely the actions of the few will stain the sacrifice of many in the eyes of the public.


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## LamaSabachthani (Jan 15, 2012)

Blake1970 said:


> No one is pissing on the family of the deceased  The soldiers are just pissing on some terrorist that would like to kill them. It's war and it's ugly. I think it's much worse to see a family member get there head cut off on TV and not be able to do anything about it. I'm sure if I lost a loved one like that I would most certainly piss on the terrorist that did and much worse.



yeah, you might have done so mate, but the point is not only that this is a poor indulgence of our baser desires, but (more specifically) this is conduct which is unambiguously forbidden in the conduct of war, and which should certainly be forbidden regardless if we are to see our servicemen as our last line of defense against tyranny and injustice and not malevolent perpetrators of shameful acts


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## LamaSabachthani (Jan 15, 2012)

USMarine75 said:


> Haha not me... I'm not angry lol... plus I sign my neg rep!  I'll always debate this kind of shit with people...
> 
> Someone above made the apropos point that guerilla warfare is all about your perspective... if you're on their side then they're freedom fighters. Hell, the American Revolution was guerilla warfare!
> 
> ...



Your latter point is spot on legally, although you might not have been aware of it (I am a law student, soon to be (hopefully!) qualified, and not long thereafter going to be going back to complete a masters degree). The war in Afghanistan has commanded far less controversy than Iraq because simply put the US was unambiguously in the right to attack the taleban. I would be really interested to learn how things got so destabilized around 2007/8 though, as I gather the early years of the war were actually pretty peaceful (i.e. I think brit soldiers used to just walk the streets in berets, pretty seldom came under attack from the taleban).


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