# Rivers of Nihil: Where owls know my name



## BusinessMan (Feb 6, 2018)

Today i woke up and found some new rivers of nihil. Sounds killer as always with this band. 

New Single the silent life:



Now that's some good sax


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## JD27 (Feb 6, 2018)

That song is so awesome. I love how they have progressed, I really enjoyed Monarchy, so I can't wait to hear the rest of this one.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Feb 6, 2018)

Oh hell yes!!


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## jerm (Feb 6, 2018)

Yes. Please.


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## Lasik124 (Feb 6, 2018)

Cool stuff!

I must say though, am I the only one who dislikes this trend of modern drum production? Sounds like a drum machine to me, especially on the tom rolls.


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## KailM (Feb 6, 2018)

Lasik124 said:


> Cool stuff!
> 
> I must say though, am I the only one who dislikes this trend of modern drum production? Sounds like a drum machine to me, especially on the tom rolls.



I notice it most on the kick. Way too clicky. Like Fenriz of Darkthrone would say, it sounds like someone clattering away on an old-fashioned typewriter. Though I prefer more natural sounding drums, it doesn't really bother me if the songs are good. I don't care for the guitar tone on this either though...


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## rahnvu (Feb 7, 2018)

It fits the sound of the band, but on a whole i agree. Even though i'm guilty of always overproducing drums myself. 

Stoked for this record, i love that they somehow sound fresh and different in a good way compared to their peers.


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## BusinessMan (Feb 7, 2018)

I think it sounds great. I don't mind if the instruments are overproduced so long as they sound good to my ears. Another thing I've always enjoyed about rivers of nihil are their guitar tones. It's heavy without being over saturated with gain compared to a ton of other bands. I'm excited for this album


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## bpprox22 (Feb 7, 2018)

So pumped for this album


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## rexbinary (Feb 7, 2018)

Just scored tickets to see them in April! I've never seen them live. I can't wait!


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## Sdrizis89 (Feb 7, 2018)

This track is so damn good. LOVE the sax in the middle section.


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## Triple7 (Feb 7, 2018)

Yeah, that was an awesome song. These dudes just get better and better. That middle section...


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## sakeido (Feb 21, 2018)

holy shit this is fresh


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## cwhitey2 (Feb 21, 2018)

sakeido said:


> holy shit this is fresh



Holy crap that was awesome!

Super pumped for this album.


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## Smoked Porter (Feb 22, 2018)

sakeido said:


> holy shit this is fresh



Good googley moogley.


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## JD27 (Feb 23, 2018)

Waiting to hear the rest of this album is so difficult.


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## JD27 (Mar 7, 2018)




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## mikah912 (Mar 7, 2018)

Oooh, another sax-fueled death metal ditty. I like!


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## TheRileyOBrien (Mar 7, 2018)

UGH...cannot freaking wait for this one.


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## Ebony (Mar 7, 2018)

Apart from the segment at 2:44 to 4:19, I absolutely love "The Silent Life".

About the drum production, I have no issue with the bass drum, but I think the tom sound is unecessarily plasticy. I also hate the snare sound, but that goes for Monarchy aswell. Way too low and fat for this kind of music, imo.

The thing about the bass drum...at this kind of speed you have three options:

1. Natural sound with little to no muffling. It will sound like porridge and everyone will laugh at how horrible it sounds except maybe Fenriz (a man who's deepest desire is to be permalocked in 1987 and listen to Bulldozer demos whilst being drunk).

2. Muffle to hell and back+process. Will sound like a semi-dead, plasticy thud (because it _is_ a semi-dead, plasticy thud). The drum shell is acting more like a vessel at this point. This is the modern standard. Will still be quite mushy at super-speed.

3. Trigger+eventually blended with option number 2.

Demanding truly organic bass drum-sounds at 200bpm 32th notes is like asking a tuba-player to play violin parts by Paganini.


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## R34CH (Mar 7, 2018)

OHH SNAP. Can't wait to go home and listen to this.


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## R34CH (Mar 8, 2018)

R34CH said:


> OHH SNAP. Can't wait to go home and listen to this.



And it did not disappoint.


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## prlgmnr (Mar 8, 2018)

Ebony said:


> Demanding truly organic bass drum-sounds at 200bpm 32th notes is like asking a tuba-player to play violin parts by Paganini.



Right but there are two solutions to this problem.


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## Ebony (Mar 8, 2018)

prlgmnr said:


> Right but there are two solutions to this problem.



?


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## prlgmnr (Mar 8, 2018)

"There's no way of having double bass drumming past X tempo without it sounding like shit"

Solution one is: Have shit sounding drums on those bits
Solution two is: Don't have any double bass past tempo X


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## Ebony (Mar 8, 2018)

prlgmnr said:


> "There's no way of having double bass drumming past X tempo without it sounding like shit"
> 
> Solution one is: Have shit sounding drums on those bits
> Solution two is: Don't have any double bass past tempo X



Or just use triggers/sound enhancement like I suggested? Unless that counts as shit ofc.


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## prlgmnr (Mar 8, 2018)

Ebony said:


> Or just use triggers/sound enhancement like I suggested? Unless that counts as shit ofc.


In my personal opinion you lose a fair bit of the "heavyness" from relentless double bass drumming once you get to a tempo that doesn't allow any time for any more of the character of the sound than a short tick or slap of beater attack, but plenty of people don't mind.


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## Ebony (Mar 8, 2018)

prlgmnr said:


> In my personal opinion you lose a fair bit of the "heavyness" from relentless double bass drumming once you get to a tempo that doesn't allow any time for any more of the character of the sound than a short tick or slap of beater attack, but plenty of people don't mind.



The loss of heavyness is true. Personally I don't care about it in stuff like very fast Death and Black metal because the electronic sound is pretty much essential in making the music work. But in most other things I much prefer the true sound of the bass drum, sometimes even at high speeds.

One of the problems I have with triggered bass drums is when a fast band slows down to play a "groovy" non-metal part. Usually makes my ears bleed.


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## SD83 (Mar 9, 2018)

Liked Monarchy a lot, loved "The silent life", love Black Crown Initiate, but "Where owls know my name"... holy shit. That was at least as awesome as I expected it to be after reading about that colaboration. My expectations for this record are too damn high now


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## Sammy J (Mar 12, 2018)

Album is every bit as epic as I’d hoped it would be. First listen in at the moment, can’t wait to unpack this more. Will provide thoughts after a few more listens.


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## xAGx (Mar 12, 2018)

rexbinary said:


> Just scored tickets to see them in April! I've never seen them live. I can't wait!


im going this saturday in cleveland


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## Decipher (Mar 20, 2018)

My pre-order arrived today and man I couldn't get the disc in fast enough to listen here at work. Totally exceeds my expectations. Album of 2018 for me I'm sure. LOVE the sax in it. MOAR SAX!!!!


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 20, 2018)

the sax was the best part of "silent life". Really great album overall imo,


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## Sdrizis89 (Mar 20, 2018)

This record is really really good. The songs are beautifully constructed and all flow very well. Haven't stopped listening to it since it came out. Had to have had 5 or 6 full listens by now.


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## squids (Mar 20, 2018)

prlgmnr said:


> In my personal opinion you lose a fair bit of the "heavyness" from relentless double bass drumming once you get to a tempo that doesn't allow any time for any more of the character of the sound than a short tick or slap of beater attack, but plenty of people don't mind.



I definitely get this. I think a lot of bands use really fast double bass over chugging parts to kind of make it sound more frenzied or intense, but i'd rather have a good blast beat at that point. the riff kinda loses it's edge when the drums are that dominant. 

Also, is it me or does the drum fill at the beginning of "A Home" sound...inorganic? even watching him play it in the music video, it doesn't even look humanly possible.


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## Vyn (Mar 20, 2018)

I've spun this in it's entirety twice now. Some thoughts:

-Excellent musicianship and song writing. Some really beautiful, haunting moments throughout
-Drums aren't horrendous, I think they suit the style
-Not a fan of the tone of the guitars when they go low. They'd sound so much better without that obvious djent tone (then again I'm a massive fan of that grinding Swedish tone).

Good album, definitely going to get a physical copy.


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## KailM (Mar 21, 2018)

Vyn said:


> I've spun this in it's entirety twice now. Some thoughts:
> 
> -Excellent musicianship and song writing. Some really beautiful, haunting moments throughout
> -Drums aren't horrendous, I think they suit the style
> ...



Agreed. Can we get over the djent tone, people? Please? I haven't checked out this band before seeing this thread. I've gotta say, I'm really impressed with the songwriting, arrangements, and musicianship. What ruins it for me is the djent tone. @#$% I'm so sick of that tone. I might be willing to give this album a pass though, because the songs are quite interesting. I'd really love to hear something like this with a more traditional death metal tone.


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## Vyn (Mar 21, 2018)

KailM said:


> Agreed. Can we get over the djent tone, people? Please? I haven't checked out this band before seeing this thread. I've gotta say, I'm really impressed with the songwriting, arrangements, and musicianship. What ruins it for me is the djent tone. @#$% I'm so sick of that tone. I might be willing to give this album a pass though, because the songs are quite interesting. I'd really love to hear something like this with a more traditional death metal tone.



I'll be honest, I wasn't expecting a single person to agree with me on this. I'm all for having tight sounding, brutal crushing guitars but you can do that without boosting the mids to fucking Mars.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 21, 2018)

KailM said:


> Agreed. Can we get over the djent tone, people? Please? I haven't checked out this band before seeing this thread. I've gotta say, I'm really impressed with the songwriting, arrangements, and musicianship. What ruins it for me is the djent tone. @#$% I'm so sick of that tone. I might be willing to give this album a pass though, because the songs are quite interesting. I'd really love to hear something like this with a more traditional death metal tone.


Yeah that tone is kind of nasty. In the right context I'm a fan of djenty kinds of tones (haken/karnivool/caligula's horse) but I find that it just doesn't work with River of Nihil's songs/overall vibe. Their older albums keep the djenty tones to a minimum. Monarchy is also a really good alubm


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## KailM (Mar 21, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Yeah that tone is kind of nasty. In the right context I'm a fan of djenty kinds of tones (haken/karnivool/caligula's horse) but I find that it just doesn't work with River of Nihil's songs/overall vibe. Their older albums keep the djenty tones to a minimum. Monarchy is also a really good alubm



I'll definitely be checking out all their work. I listened to about 3 songs off this new album this morning. It is right up my alley, and actually reminded me of older Opeth (before they stopped being a metal band) -- this is the first creative and inspiring album I've heard in a long time. I'll just cringe when the djent tone comes forward in the mix. Like Vyn said, you can have tight, crushing guitar tone without that obnoxious mids-only duck quackery. These riffs and songs are deserving of a more girthy guitar tone, IMO.


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## bhakan (Mar 21, 2018)

I agree with the general consensus here. The album is amazing but the production is too processed sounding to me. If this was produced more like something like Pleiades Dust, it would elevate the album and help the songwriting shine even more, at least for my tastes.


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## BusinessMan (Mar 21, 2018)

squids said:


> Also, is it me or does the drum fill at the beginning of "A Home" sound...inorganic? even watching him play it in the music video, it doesn't even look humanly possible.



When I first hear the song I was a little confused about how the drums sounded. I still am and it takes a hit away from the song IMO.


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## BusinessMan (Mar 21, 2018)

squids said:


> Also, is it me or does the drum fill at the beginning of "A Home" sound...inorganic? even watching him play it in the music video, it doesn't even look humanly possible.



When I first heard the song I was a little confused about how the drums sounded. I still am and it takes a hit away from the song IMO.


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## Triple7 (Mar 22, 2018)

Definitely loving this album. My only gripe would be the guitar tone. I think it would sound killer with a more grinding "death metal" tone.


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## oracles (Mar 22, 2018)

I've seen a ton of hype around this record, and for the life of me I don't get why. Thin guitars, diet Fallujah riffs and processed drums, everything fell super flat for me.


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## mongey (Mar 22, 2018)

didn't know these guys but digging it

been wanting a new gym album. I'll grab this and give it a few listens ,see if it sticks


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## extendedsolo (Mar 22, 2018)

Anytime a smaller band does something and it's the production that is the problem, I always wonder if they couldn't afford someone who really knew what they were doing. It's not like Rivers of Nihil are selling out stadiums and can get anyone. I almost feel like the reason the guitar tone is so thin is so that it didn't turn into a muddy mess and to make room for all of the keyboards. Yeah I would like it better if it weren't so thin, but I'm not sure it would really improve the recording without changing everything. 

Anyway, I love this album. The songs all flow perfectly and nothing seems out of place. Whatever their vision was I think they surpassed it.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Mar 22, 2018)

I'm surprised that people have a problem with the mix on this album. I personally think it sounds great, it sounds nice and full to me and the guitar tone sounds perfect for the music, not too thin and not too thick. I actually think the kick drum tone sounds better than a good majority of bands out there, it could be a little more full sounding and just slightly less clicky though. Overall this album is absolutely killer, definitely a worthy successor to Monarchy. I'm excited to see what they do for the winter themed album, I'm hoping they keep the same kind of atmosphere but throw in some black metal-ish riffs and melodies.


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## KailM (Mar 22, 2018)

extendedsolo said:


> Anytime a smaller band does something and it's the production that is the problem, I always wonder if they couldn't afford someone who really knew what they were doing. It's not like Rivers of Nihil are selling out stadiums and can get anyone. I almost feel like the reason the guitar tone is so thin is so that it didn't turn into a muddy mess and to make room for all of the keyboards. Yeah I would like it better if it weren't so thin, but I'm not sure it would really improve the recording without changing everything.
> 
> Anyway, I love this album. The songs all flow perfectly and nothing seems out of place. Whatever their vision was I think they surpassed it.



I don't feel like there's a problem with the mix. It sounds professional, and as mentioned earlier, you can only make the drums sound so "full" at insanely high tempos before everything mushes together in a big wall of low-end. My critique of the mix lies primarily on their choice of the ubiquitous djenty twang guitar tone instead of a real death metal tone. It's my personal taste, but I could never stand djent tone when it was new, and now that everybody and their brother, and their brother's dog is doing it -- it all sounds the same -- like a large (flock?) of ducks quacking in polyrhythmic syncopated unison. This mix sounded as good as any other djent album as far as I'm concerned. I just hate that sound and immediately want to turn it off on the first twangy note. It's too bad because the songwriting is awesome on this album.

The riffing styles and songwriting were just begging for some real death metal tone, and to me it was a letdown to go with the flavor of the week instead. Others will disagree.


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## mongey (Mar 25, 2018)

Bought the new album. Only listened all the way through twice so far but I’m digging it. 

I like the sound of it too. I hate clicky kicks and I don’t find them overly clicky. Snare could use a little more
Snap maybe. But I’ll reserve judgement till after a few more listens.


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## wat (Mar 25, 2018)

I'm really not getting how people are saying the guitars sound thin. They sound pretty huge to me.

I don't find the kick drums to be overly clicky, either. Overall I got the impression of an impressively huge sounding mix with impressive clarity.


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## BusinessMan (Mar 25, 2018)

mongey said:


> didn't know these guys but digging it
> 
> been wanting a new gym album. I'll grab this and give it a few listens ,see if it sticks



Monarchy is really good and so is conscious seed of light


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## sakeido (Mar 26, 2018)

Thin guitars? Djenty twangy tone...? The fuck?

Diet Fallujah riffs? Have you even listened to Fallujah... or this album, for that matter?

Yikes, guys, this is some horrific criticism even by both the rock bottom basement standards of metal music reviews and ss.org album critiques


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 26, 2018)

I feel like they were trying to go for the cleanest metal guitar tone possible, which I think works extremely well for this album.

I love the production of this album. It sounds like most stuff Atrium Audio puts out...they don't go for raw, they go for polished.


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## Vyn (Mar 26, 2018)

cwhitey2 said:


> I feel like they were trying to go for the *cleanest metal guitar tone possible*, which I think works extremely well for this album.
> 
> I love the production of this album. It sounds like most stuff Atrium Audio puts out...they don't go for raw, they go for polished.



That's essentially how you get that djent sounding tone - mid-gains with boosted mids. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, I'm just saying that in my completely subjective opinion that it doesn't suit the context of the material. 

Additionally, my own ears are tired of hearing that type of guitar tone which probably explains why I've had In Their Darkened Shrines by Nile on repeat lately because I'm sick of over produced, mid-happy, djenting guitar tones.


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## squids (Mar 26, 2018)

i don't think it sounds thin at all. they used a kemper profile of a JCM800, probably modified with something like an engl or bogner to get the tight low F#, but otherwise sounds huge. i'd compare the album to gojira, definitely not seeing the fallujah comparison.


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## mongey (Mar 26, 2018)

squids said:


> i don't think it sounds thin at all. they used a kemper profile of a JCM800, probably modified with something like an engl or bogner to get the tight low F#, but otherwise sounds huge. i'd compare the album to gojira, definitely not seeing the fallujah comparison.



as a newcomer to the band I say def gojira with some pink Floyd mixed in


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## KailM (Mar 26, 2018)

sakeido said:


> Thin guitars? Djenty twangy tone...? The fuck?
> 
> Diet Fallujah riffs? Have you even listened to Fallujah... or this album, for that matter?
> 
> Yikes, guys, this is some horrific criticism even by both the rock bottom basement standards of metal music reviews and ss.org album critiques



It's like, our _opinion_, man.

Are you saying the guitars _don't_ have a djent tone on this album?

I would say "thin" is not a descriptor I'd apply to anything on the album. I find the production value quite high, to be honest. I found the songwriting really good; but was disappointed they use a djent tone on the guitars, because I'm tired of that tone and I think it doesn't fit this music particularly well. Again, this is a matter of opinion --- _others will disagree_. Doesn't mean I can't respect the band and enjoy some aspect of their work. I just won't enjoy their guitar tone.


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## Eptaceros (Mar 26, 2018)

I can't get into this album at all. The sound that they're going for is definitely well executed, but it's just not for me I guess. I don't find any of it heavy, even the "gojira-like" sections. Gojira always has this strong element of savagery in their simple heaviness. On this album, the heavier sections just come off as sterile and filler for the more musical moments. And if I'm in the mood for softer stuff, every other genre of music has a lot more to offer.

Production-wise, I can live with the guitar tone, but jesus, those drums. What have they done to the snare and toms?? It sounds like they just shoved low-mids into almost every piece of the kit.

All that being said (seems a little harsh reading it back, but whatever), I'm very proud of these guys. They've come a long way as a band and I hope they continue to make their mark.


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## mongey (Mar 26, 2018)

Id say the guitars are somewhat djenty in some sections for sure .I don't know, works to my ears .Id say they are pretty raw in some sections too


these days a band has to write great songs, play it amazingly and the mix has to be spot on to our personal aesthetic not to be pulled apart .

I'm guilty of this too. sometimes I wish I didn't know anything and could just listen to the songs instead of wondering why the snare sounds like that


but another coupe listens deep I am really digging this album


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## gunch (Mar 26, 2018)

Digging the shit out of the rhodes piano in the intro


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 27, 2018)

Vyn said:


> That's essentially how you get that djent sounding tone - mid-gains with boosted mids. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, I'm just saying that in my completely subjective opinion that it doesn't suit the context of the material.
> 
> Additionally, my own ears are tired of hearing that type of guitar tone which probably explains why I've had In Their Darkened Shrines by Nile on repeat lately because I'm sick of over produced, mid-happy, djenting guitar tones.



I don't listen to this "djent" you speak of, so my ears aren't tired of anything


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## KailM (Mar 27, 2018)

cwhitey2 said:


> I don't listen to this "djent" you speak of, so my ears aren't tired of anything



I was tired of it the first time I ever heard it.


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## Vyn (Mar 27, 2018)

cwhitey2 said:


> I don't listen to this "djent" you speak of, so my ears aren't tired of anything



Look, if there was another name for it I'd gladly use it, I hate the fucking term ''djent" but I think we are stuck with it now haha.


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## sakeido (Mar 27, 2018)

KailM said:


> Again, this is a matter of opinion --- _others will disagree_.



Yes true, it is an opinion. You don't have to explain that. In my opinion, you don't have the even the slightest idea what you are talking about, but that's okay. Sorry for disrupting your echo chamber for a second there by disagreeing with you

The only djent tone on the album is the weird bit in Subtle Change


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## KailM (Mar 27, 2018)

sakeido said:


> Yes true, it is an opinion. You don't have to explain that. In my opinion, you don't have the even the slightest idea what you are talking about, but that's okay. Sorry for disrupting your echo chamber for a second there by disagreeing with you
> 
> The only djent tone on the album is the weird bit in Subtle Change


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## oracles (Mar 27, 2018)

sakeido said:


> Yes true, it is an opinion. You don't have to explain that. In my opinion, you don't have the even the slightest idea what you are talking about, but that's okay. Sorry for disrupting your echo chamber for a second there by disagreeing with you
> 
> The only djent tone on the album is the weird bit in Subtle Change



Calm down man. We don't have the same fully torqued boner you do for the album, big deal. Save some salt for your food and get it out of your attitude.


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## sakeido (Mar 27, 2018)

oracles said:


> Calm down man. We don't have the same fully torqued boner you do for the album, big deal. Save some salt for your food and get it out of your attitude.



I haven't actually said anything about the album, just poking fun at people who are apparently deaf but are here commenting about music anyways


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## Vyn (Mar 27, 2018)

sakeido said:


> Yes true, it is an opinion. You don't have to explain that. In my opinion, you don't have the even the slightest idea what you are talking about, but that's okay. Sorry for disrupting your echo chamber for a second there by disagreeing with you
> 
> The only djent tone on the album is the weird bit in Subtle Change





sakeido said:


> I haven't actually said anything about the album, just poking fun at people who are apparently deaf but are here commenting about music anyways



I'm all for someone having a different opinion with me - that's great, art is subjective, it's supposed to get different reactions out of different people. I think the tone is x, you think the tone is y, all is good mate. There's no need to be condescending, aggressive and rude though, if anything it lessens the validity of your own opinion.


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## Forkface (Mar 27, 2018)

sakeido said:


> In my opinion, you don't have the even the slightest idea what you are talking about, but that's okay. Sorry for disrupting your echo chamber for a second there by disagreeing with you


man, you're a bonafide baddass wtf 3edgy5me


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## sakeido (Mar 27, 2018)

Vyn said:


> There's no need to be condescending, aggressive and rude though, if anything it lessens the validity of your own opinion.



There's no need to be a sensitive snowflake who's looking to be offended, either, but here you are. 

Guy throws an exhaust on a Civic. Does it sound good? That's subjective, because maybe it sounds good to some people, maybe it sounds bad to other people. Does it sound like a Ferrari? No, it doesn't. 

Is the guitar tone on this album good or bad? I like it, some others don't. Does it sound like a djent tone? No, it doesn't.


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## Masoo2 (Mar 27, 2018)

If the tone on this album isn't a djent tone than I don't have the slightest clue what a djent tone is.

It's low-medium gain, tight, very clear/defined for chords, metallic on palm mutes when needed, signature open string sound associated with the genre, that's basically the textbook definition of a djent tone. Some bands might use more gain, others might use harsher tones, some might go for more twang or bite, but at it's core this is a djenty tone. A softer djent tone, I'll give you that, but still a djenty tone.

It just so happens that 90% of modern metal tones all sound like this, which I'd say is due in part to the overnight success of djent and the push away from mid-scooped (thrash) and flubby (nu metal) tones. Tons of metalcore, hardcore, death metal, prog metal, heavy metal, melodic metal all share this same type of tone which is labeled easiest as a djenty tone.


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## Vyn (Mar 27, 2018)

sakeido said:


> There's no need to be a sensitive snowflake who's looking to be offended, either, but here you are.
> 
> Guy throws an exhaust on a Civic. Does it sound good? That's subjective, because maybe it sounds good to some people, maybe it sounds bad to other people. Does it sound like a Ferrari? No, it doesn't.
> 
> Is the guitar tone on this album good or bad? I like it, some others don't. Does it sound like a djent tone? No, it doesn't.



...'Sensitive Snowflake'? You have the whole of the internet available to you, it's even a forum so you had time to think about your answer and that's genuinely the best retort you can come up with, followed by a poorly reasoned argument? You've yet to even describe what you consider to be a 'djent' tone, all you've come out and said is that this material doesn't have one. Liking a tone is subjective, as is what falls under tonal categories. 

Djent itself has more than one tone but they all share similarities. @Masoo2 beat me to it and in far better words than I could have:



Masoo2 said:


> If the tone on this album isn't a djent tone than I don't have the slightest clue what a djent tone is.
> 
> It's low-medium gain, tight, very clear/defined for chords, metallic on palm mutes when needed, signature open string sound associated with the genre, that's basically the textbook definition of a djent tone. Some bands might use more gain, others might use harsher tones, some might go for more twang or bite, but at it's core this is a djenty tone. A softer djent tone, I'll give you that, but still a djenty tone.
> 
> It just so happens that 90% of modern metal tones all sound like this, which I'd say is due in part to the overnight success of djent and the push away from mid-scooped (thrash) and flubby (nu metal) tones. Tons of metalcore, hardcore, death metal, prog metal, heavy metal, melodic metal all share this same type of tone which is labeled easiest as a djenty tone.


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## KailM (Mar 27, 2018)

Masoo2 said:


> If the tone on this album isn't a djent tone than I don't have the slightest clue what a djent tone is.
> 
> It's low-medium gain, tight, very clear/defined for chords, metallic on palm mutes when needed, signature open string sound associated with the genre, that's basically the textbook definition of a djent tone. Some bands might use more gain, others might use harsher tones, some might go for more twang or bite, but at it's core this is a djenty tone. A softer djent tone, I'll give you that, but still a djenty tone.
> 
> It just so happens that 90% of modern metal tones all sound like this, which I'd say is due in part to the overnight success of djent and the push away from mid-scooped (thrash) and flubby (nu metal) tones. Tons of metalcore, hardcore, death metal, prog metal, heavy metal, melodic metal all share this same type of tone which is labeled easiest as a djenty tone.



QFT. If this album's guitar tones aren't djent then there's no such thing as djent.

FWIW, I'll probably pick up this album, because I like the song structures/writing. Actually the only thing I don't like is the guitar tone. Not sure where all the butthurt is coming from. Seems like there were a lot of pretty reasonable conversations going on --even respectful disagreements-- until Sakeido chimed in.


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## Forkface (Mar 27, 2018)

sakeido said:


> Diet Fallujah riffs? Have you even listened to Fallujah... or this album, for that matter?


fwiw, i hadn't listened the album, but as I'm listening right now, if nobody tells me i could've sworn it was Fallujah


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## sakeido (Mar 27, 2018)

Masoo2 said:


> If the tone on this album isn't a djent tone than I don't have the slightest clue what a djent tone is.
> 
> It's low-medium gain, tight, very clear/defined for chords, metallic on palm mutes when needed, signature open string sound associated with the genre, that's basically the textbook definition of a djent tone. Some bands might use more gain, others might use harsher tones, some might go for more twang or bite, but at it's core this is a djenty tone. A softer djent tone, I'll give you that, but still a djenty tone.
> 
> It just so happens that 90% of modern metal tones all sound like this, which I'd say is due in part to the overnight success of djent and the push away from mid-scooped (thrash) and flubby (nu metal) tones. Tons of metalcore, hardcore, death metal, prog metal, heavy metal, melodic metal all share this same type of tone which is labeled easiest as a djenty tone.



Oh, it's a djent tone because all metal tones since the death of nu metal (roughly 2003?) are djent tones. That makes sense. 



Forkface said:


> fwiw, i hadn't listened the album, but as I'm listening right now, if nobody tells me i could've sworn it was Fallujah



Neither guitarist in Rivers of Nihil has a trem equipped guitar, but it still sounds like Fallujah. Okay.



Vyn said:


> ...'Sensitive Snowflake'? You have the whole of the internet available to you, it's even a forum so you had time to think about your answer and that's genuinely the best retort you can come up with, followed by a poorly reasoned argument? You've yet to even describe what you consider to be a 'djent' tone, all you've come out and said is that this material doesn't have one. Liking a tone is subjective, as is what falls under tonal categories.
> 
> Djent itself has more than one tone but they all share similarities. @Masoo2 beat me to it and in far better words than I could have:



Actually that was some attempt to dumb it down to your level using something called a simile, or maybe in this context a metaphor, because I didn't use the word "like" or "as." I was originally going to call you a little bitch and wish I had stuck with that.

I spent a long stretch of time not posting on this forum because I thought it was full of idiots with awful taste that I didn't want to talk to - not sure why I came back, because clearly that is still true.


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## Forkface (Mar 27, 2018)

sakeido said:


> I spent a long stretch of time not posting on this forum because I thought it was full of idiots with awful taste that I didn't want to talk to - not sure why I came back, because clearly that is still true.


man, you're something else 
see that red X icon top right of your screen? (or top left if you're a mac user) That's the door. Don't let it hit you on the way out.

tbh you're right, after listening to a couple of tracks, it definitely doesn't sound like Fallujah... Fallujah sounds way better than this.


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## Vyn (Mar 27, 2018)

KailM said:


> FWIW, I'll probably pick up this album, because I like the song structures/writing.



Yeah, I grabbed a copy. The artwork is also amazing, whoever does their graphics is a wizard.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Mar 27, 2018)

^ That would be the art of the legendary Dan Seagrave, his art style is one of my all time favorites.


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## wat (Mar 27, 2018)

Yikes.


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## chopeth (Mar 28, 2018)

so... is the album any good?


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## Sammy J (Mar 28, 2018)

Yes. Very.


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## GXPO (Mar 28, 2018)

All of page 4 is classic SSO, don't ever change <3

I'm going to listen to this as someone said Fallujah and I like Fallujah. Without haven't listened to this I need to first confirm that: 

1) I'm offended 
2) This is 100% djent
3) My opinion means more than yours and the fact that I sound like a whiny internet douche doesn't bother me


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## Vyn (Mar 28, 2018)

chopeth said:


> so... is the album any good?



All discussion and arguments about drums, tones and whatever aside, the album is good to the point it's worthy of a physical copy.


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## Forkface (Mar 28, 2018)

chopeth said:


> so... is the album any good?


It's excellent tbh.


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## mongey (Mar 28, 2018)

so a bunch of istens deep now

I like the album allot . 

for the record personally the drum mix is a little weird . I do wish the snare had a little more crack but mainly i think the kicks are too loud 

but still great album


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## extendedsolo (Mar 30, 2018)

GXPO said:


> All of page 4 is classic SSO, don't ever change <3
> 
> I'm going to listen to this as someone said Fallujah and I like Fallujah. Without haven't listened to this I need to first confirm that:
> 
> ...



This album I streamed and listened to on shitty headphones wasn't mixed properly.


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## cwhitey2 (Mar 30, 2018)

extendedsolo said:


> This album I streamed and listened to on shitty headphones wasn't mixed properly.


Is this a serious post


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## GXPO (Mar 31, 2018)

cwhitey2 said:


> Is this a serious post



Pretty sure he's joking.. That being said I listened to all of my music on shitty headphones for a long old time, as most people tend to. 

I only recently invested some money in some well rated buds 'burned them in' (lol maybe not lol, who knows) and Fallujah was the first 'new' music I listen to on them.


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## SamSam (Mar 31, 2018)

Masoo2 said:


> If the tone on this album isn't a djent tone than I don't have the slightest clue what a djent tone is.
> 
> It's low-medium gain, tight, very clear/defined for chords, metallic on palm mutes when needed, signature open string sound associated with the genre, that's basically the textbook definition of a djent tone. Some bands might use more gain, others might use harsher tones, some might go for more twang or bite, but at it's core this is a djenty tone. A softer djent tone, I'll give you that, but still a djenty tone.
> 
> It just so happens that 90% of modern metal tones all sound like this, which I'd say is due in part to the overnight success of djent and the push away from mid-scooped (thrash) and flubby (nu metal) tones. Tons of metalcore, hardcore, death metal, prog metal, heavy metal, melodic metal all share this same type of tone which is labeled easiest as a djenty tone.



I think if you are tuning or playig eight strings for anytbing fast or technical the "Djent" tone really is the way to go. You lose clarity so fast on anything below an A you need it in my opinion. It's just the trade off in that range.


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## extendedsolo (Mar 31, 2018)

cwhitey2 said:


> Is this a serious post


It wasn't. My point is that most people don't have the necessary audio equipment let alone ear to give a good opinion about a mix.


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## gunch (Apr 4, 2018)

Hollow straight up bangs 

I don't think the drums or the guitar tone sound any worse than any other newer techdeath production


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## R34CH (Apr 4, 2018)

Finally got around to listening to this. Can confirm djent tones. Can confirm that it's still good.


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## mongey (Apr 4, 2018)

silverabyss said:


> Hollow straight up bangs
> 
> I don't think the drums or the guitar tone sound any worse than any other newer techdeath production


is this tech death ?
A mate asked me what style they were when I was talking up the album and I didin't really know. I said death prog with no real idea ?


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## KailM (Apr 4, 2018)

SamSam said:


> I think if you are tuning or playig eight strings for anytbing fast or technical the "Djent" tone really is the way to go. You lose clarity so fast on anything below an A you need it in my opinion. It's just the trade off in that range.



This has got me thinking though-- maybe current guitar/amp technology is not keeping up with what people are doing with metal anymore.

The reason the djent tone came about was that people were tuning so low, the amplifiers and speakers couldn't reproduce the fundamentals of the low frequencies, so they were basically forced to cut the low end and boost mids. So with djent, you're basically hearing harmonic overtones of the low end, not the fundamental tones, and the bass guitar has to fill the low end.

What guitarists that want to tune lower than A should be doing is running extremely high wattage amps that are powering speakers that don't roll off at around 100hz (ahem, V 30s.)

I don't know if that kind of equipment exists-- but imagine a 3-400 watt head that powered speakers that could reproduce fundamental tones @ 45 hz. You could tune to drop A and still have a thick, rich tone.

I don't go any lower than drop b, and am not interested in djent styles of riffing-- so it doesn't matter to me, but the idea is interesting at least.


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## mongey (Apr 4, 2018)

KailM said:


> )
> 
> I don't know if that kind of equipment exists-- but imagine a 3-400 watt head that powered speakers that could reproduce fundamental tones @ 45 hz. You could tune to drop A and still have a thick, rich tone.



Isn't that called a bass amp


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## KailM (Apr 4, 2018)

mongey said:


> Isn't that called a bass amp


Technically yes, but bass amps aren't idealized for "guitar" types of distortion. This would be tailored to high gain chord work with clarity in mind.

And then you'd revamp the bass guitar gear in the same fashion, only even lower. It would take a lot of wattage.

Physically, you'd possibly reach a threshold where humans could no longer hear the frequencies much lower -- but low tones seem to be what people want these days.


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## KailM (Apr 4, 2018)

extendedsolo said:


> It wasn't. My point is that most people don't have the necessary audio equipment let alone ear to give a good opinion about a mix.



And yet everyone can certainly reference another track by a different artist, using said low-quality listening equipment, have a preference for the latter production, and choose to criticize the former track, no?


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## Winspear (Apr 5, 2018)

KailM said:


> imagine a 3-400 watt head that powered speakers that could reproduce fundamental tones @ 45 hz. You could tune to drop A and still have a thick, rich tone.



It would sound great by itself, but in the mix you are still always going to be getting rid of the fundamentals. I'd say current gear puts out more than enough fundamental anyway. Even standard tuned guitar has it's fundamentals cut off in most mixes. I don't think the djent tone came about due to lack of fundamental production at all, just the need for more clarity - which fundamental production doesn't give


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## Metropolis (Apr 5, 2018)

This album would sound like a muddy mess, if tones were more old school death metal type of sounds. Rhytm tones are made with Kemper Profiler, and it's a mix of Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, Marshall JCM800 and Bogner Uberschall.


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## KailM (Apr 5, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> This album would sound like a muddy mess, if tones were more old school death metal type of sounds. Rhytm tones are made with Kemper Profiler, and it's a mix of Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, Marshall JCM800 and Bogner Uberschall.




Tune higher then? To be fair, I thought that song/video sounded good, and I was impressed with the writing and musicianship. I'm still going to buy this album.

I guess my comments come from a place of lamenting the absence of the kind of writing and production that Opeth was doing in the late 90s and 2000s.

I shall return to my cave of archaic music and production methods now...


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## KailM (Apr 5, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> This album would sound like a muddy mess, if tones were more old school death metal type of sounds. Rhytm tones are made with Kemper Profiler, and it's a mix of Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier, Marshall JCM800 and Bogner Uberschall.




Tune higher then? To be fair, I thought that song/video sounded good, and I was impressed with the writing and musicianship. I'm still going to buy this album.

I guess my comments come from a place of lamenting the absence of the kind of writing and production that Opeth was doing in the late 90s and 2000s.

I shall return to my cave of archaic music and production methods now...


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## wat (Apr 5, 2018)

extendedsolo said:


> It wasn't. My point is that most people don't have the necessary audio equipment let alone ear to give a good opinion about a mix.



Whatever people commonly listen on IS the right audio equipment to give an opinion on a good mix.


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## sakeido (Apr 5, 2018)

KailM said:


> Tune higher then? To be fair, I thought that song/video sounded good, and I was impressed with the writing and musicianship. I'm still going to buy this album.
> 
> I guess my comments come from a place of lamenting the absence of the kind of writing and production that Opeth was doing in the late 90s and 2000s.
> 
> I shall return to my cave of archaic music and production methods now...



Tune higher... so write different music?

Jesus fuckin christ, these guys are running basically the same tone you use on your stuff.. y'know, just with the necessary EQ cuts so it isn't flabby and incoherent. This still isn't a djent tone. If anything it would have been nice if it was slightly djentier because the riffs still get a little blurry during fast sections, but not to the same extent they did on the last album

Real djent tone for reference for the numerous people who don't have the slightest clue what they are talking about. These guitars are actually thin, too, for no good reason either


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## KailM (Apr 5, 2018)

I guess SS.org is not a place where one is allowed to express a dissenting opinion. Shame.


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## sakeido (Apr 5, 2018)

http://www.philosophersmag.com/essays/26-the-fact-opinion-distinction 

http://www.houstonpress.com/arts/no-it-s-not-your-opinion-you-re-just-wrong-updated-7611752 

First one is a long read but a gooder. You may notice I'm not in here arguing with people who called the album bad...


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## Metropolis (Apr 5, 2018)

KailM said:


> Tune higher then? To be fair, I thought that song/video sounded good, and I was impressed with the writing and musicianship. I'm still going to buy this album.
> 
> I guess my comments come from a place of lamenting the absence of the kind of writing and production that Opeth was doing in the late 90s and 2000s.
> 
> I shall return to my cave of archaic music and production methods now...



I know what you mean, but if this track is even half legit, Opeth has relied on power of bass and kick drum in their records for a long time too. There is a lot of room left for bass, it's hi-passed drastically, and that is what makes records sound tight. Though this was released in 2005, but still. Style is of course totally different along how instruments are tuned and all that, but maybe you'll get the point.


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## KailM (Apr 5, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> I know what you mean, but if this track is even half legit, Opeth has relied on power of bass and kick drum in their records for a long time too. There is a lot of room left for bass, it's hi-passed drastically, and that is what makes records sound tight. Though this was released in 2005, but still. Style is of course totally different along how instruments are tuned and all that, but maybe you'll get the point.




That is definitely legit. Thanks for sharing that. I must admit, I was surprised the guitars sounded that way on their own. That song sounds massive with the whole mix. Live, it sounds the same as their album -- I'll never forget seeing them perform that song. Still, I would say this example uses a little more low end in the guitars than the current trend in mixing, but then again, they weren't tuned as low.


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## KailM (Apr 5, 2018)

sakeido said:


> Tune higher... so write different music?
> 
> Jesus fuckin christ, these guys are running basically the same tone you use on your stuff.. y'know, just with the necessary EQ cuts so it isn't flabby and incoherent. This still isn't a djent tone. If anything it would have been nice if it was slightly djentier because the riffs still get a little blurry during fast sections, but not to the same extent they did on the last album
> 
> Real djent tone for reference for the numerous people who don't have the slightest clue what they are talking about. These guitars are actually thin, too, for no good reason either



That second example you linked was indeed horrendous. I cringed. Twice, before I rushed to hit the "X" button. I agree, "Where Owls Know My Name" sounds nowhere near that bad.

Look, I don't want to disrespect the band and I never intended my comments to draw so much attention or turn it into a Rivers of Nihil bashing session. I'm excited for this music and while it isn't my favorite guitar tone, I can overlook it because the composition is awesome. I'm done talking about their guitar tone. Let's just enjoy the music. Peace.


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## metal_sam14 (Apr 5, 2018)

Album is bonkers. Subtle Change might be my favorite song of the year to date.


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## AdenM (Apr 8, 2018)

Don't know what y'all are talking about above but I've been bumping this during work and it sounds sick, songwriting wise. Nice use of keys/atmosphere/what-have-you. Reminds me of Planetary Duality era Faceless with some Erra/Northlane/djenty boi mixed in.


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## Sammy J (Apr 8, 2018)

metal_sam14 said:


> Album is bonkers. Subtle Change might be my favorite song of the year to date.



Strangely enough, I think it’s one of the weaker tracks personally. 

Prefer Old Nothing, Hollow, Death is Real and the title track.


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## BusinessMan (Nov 3, 2019)

Sorry for the necrobump but I couldn't help myself. PLis don't hit me with the ban hammer 

Taken from here
https://metalinjection.net/around-t...ladelphia-memes-perfectly-explain-metal-bands

There are some other pretty good ones.


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## stockwell (Nov 4, 2019)

I can't get over this album. It sounds even better during fall. If they can pull off a winter album to complete the cycle, they'll be one of the best ever for me.


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