# Trivia.



## Vince (Aug 10, 2004)

Ok, without looking it up, can someone tell me why standard tuning is EADGBE for 6-string guitars?

First one to answer correctly...well...get's nothing, but it's a good way to learn something.


 <-- man I love this little guy.


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## Goliath (Aug 10, 2004)

Sure, and I didnt' search!



> - Lute tunings in the 1300-1600s were not very standardized, but the
> most "standard" lute tuning was very similar to a guitar, except that
> it was one step lower. If we ignore the one-step difference, lute
> "standard" tuning is: EADFBE, i.e., the same as guitar standard
> ...



*whistles innocently*


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## Metal Ken (Aug 10, 2004)

now here's one, why is it common to have specifically 6 strigns on a guitar? and 4 on a bass? (even though the bass rule is pretty much out of the window here)


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## Chris (Aug 10, 2004)

Bassists aren't smart enough to handle 6 strings?

Oh, wait, that's drummers. Carry on.


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## Digital Black (Aug 10, 2004)

Originating from the 16 century, the individual strings on a guitar ( of which there were usually only 5) were called what?.............


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## macalpine88 (Aug 11, 2004)

rings


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## Digital Black (Aug 11, 2004)

Nope....

(hint something your take in collage)


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## Metal Ken (Aug 11, 2004)

course?


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## Chris (Aug 11, 2004)

drugs?


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## Vince (Aug 11, 2004)

You guys are close 

The actual reason why a guitar is tuned EADGBE is because it allows for the formation of the 5 basic chord forms, C, A, G, E, D. Making up CAGED. Think about it. Every chord you could possibly play on guitar is a form of the C, A, G, E, or D chords.

Learned this in Fretboard Harmony, a college theory class taught by a former student of Andres Segovia. She was a nutcase. She always was correcting where I was putting my hands, and she gripped my wrists so hard it always hurt. The funniest thing is that she always had to wear wrist braces to play guitar. She knew her theory, though.


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## Metal Ken (Aug 11, 2004)

desertdweller said:


> You guys are close
> 
> The actual reason why a guitar is tuned EADGBE is because it allows for the formation of the 5 basic chord forms, C, A, G, E, D. Making up CAGED. Think about it. Every chord you could possibly play on guitar is a form of the C, A, G, E, or D chords.



I can see that but not every chord is like that. What about altered 5ths, Diminished, augmented, and triad shapes?

I'd say i'd believe its a variation of lute tuning or for the standard tuning. I think the result of the C A G E D chords is different. I think those basic shapes came about as a secondary to the standard tuning, but hey i could be wrong


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## Digital Black (Aug 11, 2004)

HateBreeder said:


> course?


Ding ding ding

You are correct. You win one body massage from the playboy playmate of your choice...


Now the question is, did you just look that up, or know it previously..
A five string guitar would be known as a 5 course. 6 string -6 course ect.


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## Vince (Aug 11, 2004)

HateBreeder said:


> I can see that but not every chord is like that. What about altered 5ths, Diminished, augmented, and triad shapes?



5ths, diminished, etc, are all deriviative of CAGED. Try it  even a basic triad is usually either C or G form.


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## Metal Ken (Aug 11, 2004)

Seph-i just guessed. im college now ;p 

Desert-- well, the thing is, a triad is a basic major chord, so i guess i just looked at it, as that C is just the most popular major triad ;p Dimished doesnt fit in C A G E D, simply because CAGED is derived from 1 3 5 triads and triad doubling, whereas a dimished falls slightly outside of Diatonic harmony, with 3 minor 3rd intervals, not found in standard chords (Even locrian modes are only Half Diminished) I guess thats just my take on it ;p
BTW, here's some trivia. There's only 3 dimished chords. ;p 

Think about it. Whats a C, A, G, E, or D? They're all major chords derived strictly from 1 - 3 - 5 notes out of the major scale.


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## Vince (Aug 12, 2004)

When you play diminished, or augmented, you're basically just moving the 5, irrelevant of the overall chord form  See, when I talk about C A G E D, I'm not talking about the EXACT notes, I'm talking about the shape your hand is in when you play.. the basic chord FORM.


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## Metal Ken (Aug 12, 2004)

I think we're having a failure to communicate ;p
I was talking about the chord construction. Not the exact notes. When you create a diminished its a 1-3b-5b. You're also flattening the third. Its outside of diatonic harmony. Im just saying that on the guitar, those are the most common ways to arrange a majr triad on a guitar, thats why they're the beginner chords. those chord shapes basically get thrown out the window when you start doing 7th, 9th,11th, 13ths, and chord alterations. You wont use a A Majr shape when you're playing a Majr7/9 or something.


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## Vince (Aug 12, 2004)

I just did a quick internet search to backup what I'm talking about. Check out the text below...

http://guitaralliance.com/guitar_lessons/guitar_chords/

Learn How To Play Guitar Chords
Introduction To Chords And The CAGED Fretboard System
Chords are 3 or more notes played at the same time. There are all types of chords, but all will fall under two categories: major and minor chords. 

On the guitar there are only 5 basic major chord patterns. These primary chord patterns found on the guitar are C, A, G, E, and D. Together they spell the word CAGED which should help you remember them. *All other chords that you will learn in the future come from the C, A, G, E, and D chord patterns. *

CAGED is system of fretboard patterns for chords, scales, and arpeggios. It is derived from the unique tuning of the guitar. The C, A, G, E, and D basic chord patterns are just the beginning of the CAGED system. They are the first step in opening up a door to total fretboard domination.

Every other chord, scale, and arpeggio can be built from these 5 patterns. It has been rumored that Jimi Hendrix's vast abilities stem from his knowledge of the CAGED system and look at what it did for him. Understanding and mastering the CAGED system is the greatest achievement for any guitarist and GuitarAlliance.com Member's Site will show you how to do this and more!


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## Vince (Aug 12, 2004)

more...

http://www.avguitar.com/lesson1.htm

If you gaze at this picture, you will SEE how the 5 basic chord forms, C-A-G-E-D, connect to form 1 grand chord structure across the neck. (C Major in this case). This system forms an EVER-PRESENT structure underneath your fingertips AT ALL TIMES and for EVERYTHING that one can play on the guitar whether it is chords, scales, harmonic movement, bass lines or licks and tricks! It is IMPERATIVE that you SEE this structure if you want to move around with any degree of certainty as to where you are going. Speed comes with clear VISION. By the way, there are no other chord forms...REALLY!...everything you can play on the guitar in standard tuning is made from the substance of C-A-G-E-D! It is always important to relate anything "new" to these 5 good old friends. 
The ROOT BASS NOTE, becomes an important vehicle for NAMING and PLACING your chord forms. Notice how the C and A forms stretch left and right from this point off of the 5th string C. Likewise, the G and E do the same (left and right) off of the 6th string C. This bass note is a predictable 5 frets higher than the 5th. (That¹s how we tune.) The D form stretches to the right and is the only form rooted on the 4th string. It is easily located from the 6th string, 2 frets higher. Follow the arrows and use the Root Bass Notes as "pivot points".
The structure never changes it's order from C-A-G-E-D. It just slides altogether in 1 piece up or down the neck to change into other chords... just like you would slide any one chord form around... only now, the whole thing goes along, and, what passes across either end (the 12th fret or the nut) simply reappears at the other end thus always maintaining the C-A-G-E-D order! See EXAMPLE 1: A Major. After you try EXAMPLE 1, move it up 1 fret and you'll have all of your Bb (A#) chords, one more and you'll have B chords. Next try E Major and then move it up 1 fret for F, another for F# etc. *There are no other unique forms besides C-A-G-E-D...this is how we arrive at ALL of our chords! * By the way, the hand can cover more than 1 of these forms at the same time, so it is possible to construct a chord using some notes from 2 or more different chord forms. Try some open strings. Be creative!


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## Metal Ken (Aug 12, 2004)

i see what you're saying, and thats good, but i'm saying that specific method evolved from the system of the tuning of the guitar NOT the other way around like you said. I believe it is from the quote on page 1--


> Lute tunings in the 1300-1600s were not very standardized, but the
> most "standard" lute tuning was very similar to a guitar, except that
> it was one step lower. If we ignore the one-step difference, lute
> "standard" tuning is: EADFBE, i.e., the same as guitar standard
> ...


. 
Thats all i'm saying. It was based off a lute tuning but modified you're sayin its based off being able to access the CAGED chords. i would imagine that the caged thing is a just a result of someone seeing how the chords connected together on the neck. It just shows ways to play different doubled triads. And it only deals with major chords really, cause once you start altering things, it gets screwy. heh Besides if it were based off of a chord, wouldnt it make more sense to root it to a C Major rather than E Minor 11th chord?


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## Vince (Aug 12, 2004)

hehe, we agree to disagree?


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## Metal Ken (Aug 13, 2004)

sounds good ;p 
Next question?


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## Goliath (Aug 13, 2004)

Neat. I never new any of this.  Does this count as "theory"?


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## Metal Ken (Aug 15, 2004)

kinda sorta. If anyone wants me to post some basic theory on chord contruction or scale construction or anything, just say ;p


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## Goliath (Aug 16, 2004)

Consider it said.


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## Drew (Dec 13, 2004)

Hmm... I've run into the CAGED threory of chord construction before, but, well... I've always considered it a product of standard tuning, not standard tuning a product of it. 

I mean, however you tune the guitar, you're still going to essentially have five basic "voicings" that you can base the remainder of your chords on, right? 

I think CAGED just comes from tertiary (triadic) harmony applied to a 6-stringed (coursed ) instrument, and not vice versa. 

Just a gut feeling though, I could be wrong. 

-D


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## Metal Ken (Dec 13, 2004)

I agree with you. If we had a different tuning standard, it could be, like DBAFE or the BGFDC system or the whatever the hell the basic chord shapes come out from on that. I mean, you dont hear people who play piano and violin or any other classical instrument talking about the thing.


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## Drew (Dec 13, 2004)

HB- thanks, bro, I was afraid I was going to have to invent a tuning before people would start agreeing. A little tricky, with no guitar in hand. 

-D


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