# Price On True Temperament Frets



## Shah OF GuiTar (Nov 24, 2013)

The fret board on my 8 string is worn down and I plan to replace it soon. My idea is to re-fret it with True Temperament frets and I would like to know *how much would it cost to install True Temperament fretting system on a fresh 27" ebony fret board?*

Thanks 

****I am replacing it with a new untouched and un-slotted fret board, ready to be sent out to the guys at True Temperament in Sweden****


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## dudeskin (Nov 24, 2013)

Your better off finding a tech local to you to price these things man. 
As for TT frets, I don't think it's something you can retrofit. As the slots on your guitar are straight and the TT ones aren't.
Have a look at Allan Marcus and his TT fret strandberg Boden.


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## drmosh (Nov 24, 2013)

yeah, you can't retrofit the frets. The blank necks are generally sent to TT and they fit the frets


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## capoeiraesp (Nov 24, 2013)

Shah OF GuiTar, how old are you?


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## vansinn (Nov 24, 2013)

capoeiraesp said:


> Shah OF GuiTar, how old are you?



Who cares? he's asking a legit question about something so esoteric most most players haven't even heard of it..


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 24, 2013)

It's $1900 for a retrofit, and that's not including shipping and taxes to and from Sweden.


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## Vhyle (Nov 24, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's $1900 for a retrofit, and that's not including shipping and taxes to and from Sweden.



Jeeze. You're just better off buying another 8-string with TT frets to begin with.


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## leonardo7 (Nov 24, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's $1900 for a retrofit, and that's not including shipping and taxes to and from Sweden.



Just to be clear so that he understands, last I heard they don't ship out the frets, they only install them themselves. You would have to pay to ship them your guitar and have them install the frets, not pay to have them ship you the frets. This is why Mayones hasn't made it a regular option yet, and why it hasnt become much of an option with any company yet, and also why its been somewhat easier for Strandberg to get it done, since he's already in Sweden.


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## Shah OF GuiTar (Nov 24, 2013)

Thank allot


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## Shah OF GuiTar (Nov 24, 2013)

Why does does it matter to you how old I am?


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## Hollowway (Nov 24, 2013)

I think he asked because younger people tend to not research the information kn their own, but rather post threads to ask others. Not that it's a huge deal. No one gave you a "here, let me google that for you," so you're safe.


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## MaxOfMetal (Nov 24, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> Just to be clear so that he understands, last I heard they don't ship out the frets, they only install them themselves. You would have to pay to ship them your guitar and have them install the frets, not pay to have them ship you the frets. This is why Mayones hasn't made it a regular option yet, and why it hasnt become much of an option with any company yet, and also why its been somewhat easier for Strandberg to get it done, since he's already in Sweden.



Hence why the price is so high as they remove your old frets and fretboard.


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## skeels (Nov 24, 2013)

Here, let me goo- oh....

**nevermind**


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## Riley (Nov 24, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> I think he asked because younger people tend to not research the information kn their own, but rather post threads to ask others. Not that it's a huge deal. No one gave you a "here, let me google that for you," so you're safe.


 
On another of his threads he made it a point to tell a manufacturer in an email that he is "a professional guitar player of 10 years"...so regardless of the newbish questions he is clearly a seasoned veteran


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## Shah OF GuiTar (Nov 24, 2013)

Thank you Riley  But for everybody else if the question was not read properly, yes I would seem like a noob. Like I said "The fret board on my 8 string is worn down and I plan to replace it soon. My idea is to re-fret it with True Temperament frets" meaning I am replacing it with a new untouched and un-slotted fret board, ready to be sent out to the guys at True Temperament in Sweden.


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## Hollowway (Nov 24, 2013)

Yeah, they were probably confused because typically fret boards don't wear down, but frets do, so there was some assumption there. But, keep us posted if you get any info. It seems like a lot of money, but it's not exactly the sort of thing you can do on your own. Any chance we could see some pics of your 8?


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## redstone (Nov 24, 2013)

Also consider how many times you will re-fret your TT board and who will do it once TT close down.


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## Shah OF GuiTar (Nov 24, 2013)

The previous owner must have had a strong grip because the wood past the 12 fret is worn in. Also he must have never cleaned the guitar......


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## Shah OF GuiTar (Nov 24, 2013)




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## ElRay (Nov 24, 2013)

A quick visit to their website reveals:
They don't do imports from outside the EU
They don't do anything other than 6-strings
They don't work well more than a 1/2 step of so from standard tuning.
They work with a specific range of string gauges
Many of these factors are deal breakers for many players here.

Ray


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## darren (Nov 24, 2013)

Welcome to TrueTemperament USA


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 25, 2013)

Those just look like a handache to play. No thanks IMO.


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## ElRay (Nov 25, 2013)

darren said:


> Welcome to TrueTemperament USA



Nice. Any indication that they'll do any more than six strings? I couldn't see any info and the only other thing I could find was one picture of an Ola .strandberg* with 8 strings a TT frets.

On a tangental-note, the TrueTemperament USA folks need to do some serious SEO, because they did not show on the first page of Google results for: "true temperament neck".

Ray


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## capoeiraesp (Nov 25, 2013)

My apologies for not contributing to this thread constructively by asking how old the OP is. After seeing 3 threads, * symbols, and a new user I was perhaps too hasty in my less than constructive question. 

From what I've been told, True Temprament frets are 'cast' so any future refretting or servicing would have to be done by a trained/qualified technician. I don't know of any unfortunately.


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## Riley (Nov 25, 2013)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Those just look like a handache to play. No thanks IMO.



They don't really feel any different to play than straight frets.


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## darren (Nov 26, 2013)

Just don't look down and you'll probably never notice the difference.


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## MF_Kitten (Nov 26, 2013)

Having played a TT strat, I can confirm that it just feels like a regular guitar. You don't notice the frets being squiggly at all. And they do it in the US now, not just sweden.


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## Malkav (Nov 26, 2013)

Having played Mattias Eklundh's personal Caparison (yeah name/story drop ) with TT frets I can attest to what everyone else is saying, they feel no different at all.

That being said as advertised they do improve intonation, and a side effect of that is that it improves sustain, and I don't mean in a normal guitar with good sustain kinda way, I mean that you can definitely hear there's a sweeter quality to the overall tone.

Also why didn't you just shoot them a message? I got in touch with them once to ask about pricing and they were really prompt and friendly, and though I don't remember the price I do remember that there was no way in hell I could ever afford it.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 26, 2013)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's $1900 for a retrofit, and that's not including shipping and taxes to and from Sweden.


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## tttexas guitars (Jun 2, 2014)

Hi guys! Yes, it is correct. You can now get True Temperament frets installed on your neck in The Americas. TT Texas LLC is a fairly new company owned by myself and the inventor of the system, Anders Thidell. We are located in Austin,TX, and we offer the same services as the Swedish company. The price for a install starts at 1 370 USD, plus the cost for the actual neck. Since there are so many factors effecting the price: set neck, bold on neck, side bindings, temperament etc, we do individual quotes on all guitars, since there are really no standards, as I'm sure you agree too. We've only been up and running for little more than a year, and we are moving with small steps, to be able to scale up in a controlled way. That is why you've not seen any ads from us in magaizines or web portals. We've still not made it to the trade show scene either, just because of that. I'm sure (hope) you do have a million questions about True Temperament, so please bring them on!  We do retrofit on all types of guitars, but we can't retrofit a already slotted neck. It has to be plan when we start.So we either replace the whole neck, or the fingerboard on your guitar. You will not feel any difference in playing, but you will HEAR it, big time. A guitar that is perfectly intonated over the entire fingerboard, in all chords, is a completely different intstument, and since the strings are allowed to ring out the way they are supposed to, it increase the sustain of the instrument in a dramtic way too.
Hope this helps. By the way, sorry for the lamest web site in the industry! We're working on a brand new one, that SHOULD be up in a couple of weeks, if everything goes according to the master plan ( we'll see about that..........)


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## Explorer (Jun 2, 2014)

Having read the FAQ for True Temperament in Sweden, which prompted the OP to ask about it, I'm going to extrapolate here.

A simple bridge adjustment won't allow for the amount of change needed from one string to the next. Only the TT frets, computer-optimized for each string's gauge and diameter, will work.

First possible conclusion: If you change string gauges or tuning, adjusting the bridge saddle would not work to get back what you paid so much money for. You will need the TT system to be redone for those strings/pitches you changed in order to keep that perfect intonation. 

Second possible conclusion: They're overstating their case, in order to justify the need for the system, and therefore your desire to pay for it. 

Since my tech and I have seen that with my instruments set up for my playing, the intonation is correct all the way up the nect on all eight strings, I'm not feeling the need. YMMV.

And yes, I agree that when intonation is perfectly dialed in, the guitars have more resonance and sustain and are a joy to play. 

At the minimum price of $1500 on the US site for a replacement 6-string neck (plus whatever shipping costs), and $2350 for fretboard replacement, I recommend a complete set-up from a luthier/tech with an impeccable reputation, a relatively tiny investment, before deciding you need to spend the money on this. Be smart. Risk the small money before spending the big bucks. 

If Carvin still guarantees that you can set the action at the 24th fret to 1/16", I'd get a DC800 for around the same price. With action so low, you wouldn't be subjecting the strings to the huge amount of stretching posited by TT, and you'd have a dayum fine guitar to boot. 

Wherevwer you feel your money better spent, good luck!


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## Malkav (Jun 2, 2014)

Explorer said:


> Since my tech and I have seen that with my instruments set up for my playing, the intonation is correct all the way up the nect on all eight strings, I'm not feeling the need. YMMV.
> 
> And yes, I agree that when intonation is perfectly dialed in, the guitars have more resonance and sustain and are a joy to play.



I don't really have enough experience to talk about the other aspects of what you have asked but I will say that they intonate on an entirely different level, a normal guitar sounds great when it's intonation is in, but this sounded different there was a quality to it's sound that was unlike a normal guitar that's been setup nicely.

As to whether or not that difference in tonality is worthwhile to you will be entirely subjective, however I would recommend trying one in person and hearing it cause it is definitely something else.

Personally I thought it was cool, but there's no way in hell I'm forking out that kinda money to mod one of my guitars, it wasn't that cool


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## 7stringDemon (Jun 2, 2014)

I thought of another factor with the TT frets. 

In my head, I'm thinking that you'd be so perfectly in tune and intonated that you would actually be slightly out of tune with the rest of a bands stringed section. Unless they all got TT frets as well. It seems counter-productive to me. 

Just food for thought.


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## tedtan (Jun 2, 2014)

This isn't just about stretching the string while fretting it (though that plays a role), but the fact that guitars are inherently out of tune. Even when set up and properly intonated, it's not in tune with itself. (Don't believe me? Try tuning up and playing a D cowboy chord ). 

There have been different attempts to correct this over the years (Buzz Feiten nut and tuning system being the most common one I hear about, but Earvana nuts and others exist, too). The TT guys are trying to correct the inherent inaccuracies in the guitar's design. And, going further, they offer the opportunity have you guitar set up in various temperaments (just temperament, well temperament, equal temperament, etc.). Admittedly, aside from 12 tet, these aren't very practical for most people, but it is something.

I've never played one, so I can't say how well they accomplish their goals, but there is definitely more to TT frets than what a setup accomplishes on a normal guitar.


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## Explorer (Jun 2, 2014)

I'm been trying to think of how to say this succinctly, and I believe I have it:

If one uses an equal-tempered True Temperament system, it looks like, for each string, the scale length is being adjusted consistently. 

It looks like adjusting the scale length is what is being done, just as adjusting the bridge saddle would accomplish (albeit a bit less expensively). But if that's true, then the FAQ is wrong in saying that adjusting the scale length alone, by means of either the saddle or the frets, can fix intonation problems. 

On an equal-tempered TT neck, are all the frets be adjusted to that same logarithmic relationship, just with slightly different scale lengths determined by each string's tension, diameter and pitch? Or are there other non-log variances from one fret to the next. 

If there *are* non-log variances along the length of the string, what are they?







Forgive my skepticism, but since it's not like someone can easily replicate the equipment and process, I'm hoping it won't be too revealing to give a straightforward answer.


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## InfinityCollision (Jun 2, 2014)

7stringDemon said:


> I thought of another factor with the TT frets.
> 
> In my head, I'm thinking that you'd be so perfectly in tune and intonated that you would actually be slightly out of tune with the rest of a bands stringed section. Unless they all got TT frets as well. It seems counter-productive to me.
> 
> Just food for thought.



Not so different than playing alongside a properly tuned piano (look up stretch tuning). Not ideal, but we deal with it.

Besides, if you're playing in equal temperament you're already audibly "out of tune" on most intervals. People generally get by just fine with that 

Granted that can also be applied towards TT, since all it does is make your guitar conform more accurately to a standard that is based on practicality rather than nature (or some derivation thereof, depending on which TT configuration you use).


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## VigilSerus (Jun 2, 2014)

ElRay said:


> A quick visit to their website reveals:
> They don't do anything other than 6-strings



Nop, It says they do 6 7 and 8.

Fingerboards | TrueTemperament Frets

Even has a video on the front page with a multiscale TT 8 string.


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