# Beginner at squats



## Greatoliver (Dec 9, 2011)

Hey,

I've been training for a while but I have never really approached squats before. However I'm wanting to train up my legs as I'm looking to do rowing trials next year, and so I figured squats target a lot of the appropriate muscles.

I've been training my legs already - I cycle a bit and do cardio on the ergometer, as well as doing some leg exercises, but never squats. I know that form is really important to prevent injury, so do you guys have some tips for beginners and/or some good sites to learn the technique? I'm looking to stick with about 8-10 reps, so I'm not going to be lifting massive weights.

Thanks for your help!


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## SirMyghin (Dec 9, 2011)

Squats is the single best leg exercise, no exceptions. If you check the starting deadlifts thread that Peaches started, there were some great squat articles that came up. 8-10 reps is not a whole tonne for a leg exercise, I would call that heavier lifting. 16-20 would be a lighter set, as legs take longer to exhaust overall. 

My advice is don't trick yourself into stopping before you hit the bottom, ever. No 1/2 squats, ass to grass. You stop when your body does not physically go lower, permitting you can hold your back in line. You may have trouble initially, and it may help to put your heels up on a board (2x4) or plates, this is caused by a lack of soleus flexion. You can stretch that by stretching your calves with knees bent. If you can't get low because of weight, remove weight. Also keep your weight on your heels at all times.

I really like to run to warm up for squats, I find it helps tonnes with circulation, comfort, and breathing. 600M or so is probably enough to get you moving without exhausted. A cool down run can be killer hell, but has become routine lately also.


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## Winspear (Dec 9, 2011)

I found it was all about feet positioning. I see people struggling to squat, leaning forward/knees too far forward past the toes/heels coming off the floor all the time because their feet are in the wrong place. 
Get a nice wide stance and turn your toes slightly out. Find the most comfortable spot and you'll find you're able to go ALL the way down.

Like so:







None of this:






Always stretch after a leg session. I always neglect stretching all body parts to be honest, but if I don't do my quads I literally will not be walking for 3 days.


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## SirMyghin (Dec 9, 2011)

Those are some good diagrams, also stretching leaves you not sore for days? Hell I am sore for days regardless after some good squatting . Lucky bum. 

Stretching also helps you retain your range of motion throughout muscle building, very important to do static stretching after heavy lifting.


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## MTech (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm lucky enough to be trained by someone that trains with Hany Rambod so I'll throw in some of what I learned. Do 3-4 Sets of 12 pyramid up in weight, also rotate doing normal squats one leg day and next time around do front squats. It's harder if you're tall but you want to go down to at least parallel if not lower (like photo above) especially if you're shorter. Keep your heels down, look forward/up not down and never turn while doing them. I highly recommend using Shiek belts. Also he's right about stretching always do it pre & post workout especially with legs because you do NOT want your hams cramping up. I like using those dense foam rollers to roll out my quads as it really loosens them up and you won't have sore jell-o for legs.


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## Greatoliver (Dec 9, 2011)

Thanks for your help! I'll look at the deadlifts thread. I noticed about the asian squat thing when I went to vietnam last year, I found it so uncomfortable.

What are the benefits of using a bar over dumbells? The gym I go to has a bar, but I am not always able to go there, so I would have to use the set of dumbells at home.


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## TRENCHLORD (Dec 9, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Those are some good diagrams, also stretching leaves you not sore for days? Hell I am sore for days regardless after some good squatting . Lucky bum.
> 
> Stretching also helps you retain your range of motion throughout muscle building, very important to do static stretching after heavy lifting.


 
Stretching has never alieviated soreness for me either. 
In fact I'd think it would contribute to soreness by means of additional muscle fiber stress , but that's just my guess. 
It might help soreness go away a day faster, especially if it's preceded by some warmup-style work on offdays (active rest).

With squats in particular, if you forgo stretching the knee cap itself can begin to be pulled upward by the ever-tightening quadrucep muscles,
so some reasonably intense static stretching post-workout is a 4sure.


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## Winspear (Dec 10, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Those are some good diagrams, also stretching leaves you not sore for days? Hell I am sore for days regardless after some good squatting . Lucky bum.



Haha, no I'm sore for sure! There is a big difference between sore and immobile 

I built up some beginner leg strength with dumbells but your quads are gonna outgrow your grip strength real damn fast. Make sure you get the bar nice and sturdy on your traps, NOT your neck. If it hurts you're probably doing it wrong. It'll be uncomfortable the first few times, but it shouldn't hurt.


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## Infinite Recursion (Dec 10, 2011)

Make sure that you rest the bar on your shoulders, not your neck or your spine. Go below 90 degrees on the squat. Set the rack so that it's at a comfortable height to unrack the bar from. Don't round your back, that can fuck your back up badly. Don't bother putting pads or anything on the bar, get used to the feel of the bar when you're lifting lighter weights.


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## TRENCHLORD (Dec 10, 2011)

Also, it's a good idea to choose the right shoes lol. (especially for heavy deadlifts)
I use my wrestling shoes tied up nice and tight for ankle support/stability when doing deadlifts and squats. Mostly for the flat-foot style sole.
For olympic lift variations (power cleans, hang cleans, snatches, hang snatches) normal running shoes/cross trainers work the best for me.

Occasionally I like to do squats in my wolverine workboots also.
With the elevated heel it gives a much different feel. (nice rhyme huh)


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## SirMyghin (Dec 10, 2011)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Also, it's a good idea to choose the right shoes lol. (especially for heavy deadlifts)
> I use my wrestling shoes tied up nice and tight for ankle support/stability when doing deadlifts and squats. Mostly for the flat-foot style sole.
> For olympic lift variations (power cleans, hang cleans, snatches, hang snatches) normal running shoes/cross trainers work the best for me.
> 
> ...



Where as I do all my lifting in a pair of 5 fingers, as then I am effectively barefoot in the gym, which is fantastic. The elevated heel thing is great. Be care with normal runners as the heels can be squishy some, which can complicate heavy lifting. I like the feel of my heel being solid on the ground, no exception. I think wrestling shoes are the closest to this from your list, no?

I second not using a pad on the bar, and it isn't the manliness talking. Pads effectively make the bar a lot more slippery, it stays on your back a lot nicer without. As you built up your traps and get used to the feeling you will be fine.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Dec 10, 2011)

Get form right, strength afterwards. I've been doing olympic-style lifts for a year (started age 14, nearly 16 now), the most I've ever sqatted was only around my body weight (62.5 kg or somewhere around) but my form is impeccable and it's on _that _that I plan to build maximal gains on this coming year.

Oh, on footwear, I always lift in socks or barefoot. No shoes 



EtherealEntity said:


> I built up some beginner leg strength with dumbells but your quads are gonna outgrow your grip strength real damn fast.



Oh god this.


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## TRENCHLORD (Dec 10, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Be care with normal runners as the heels can be squishy some, which can complicate heavy lifting.


 
Also the heels are usually rounded a bit, so if one was to get off balance and roll back on the heel there could be catastrophy .

I love the fact they have some squishiness (for the olympic lifts) cause my heels have taken a beating for decades. 
As long as you have good balance and can always keep the weight out in front it's not an issue, however, for younger lifters and upstart cleaners it could potentially be a problem (and a good laugh for fellow gym members).

I'm lucky for having an adequate (for me anyways) facility at home.

Then again, I do my olympic lifts with a big glass window right (2feet) behind me, so losing thy balance is not an option. This also of coarse is not something I reccomend others doing .


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## SirMyghin (Dec 10, 2011)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Also the heels are usually rounded a bit, so if one was to get off balance and roll back on the heel there could be catastrophy .
> 
> I love the fact they have some squishiness (for the olympic lifts) cause my heels have taken a beating for decades.
> As long as you have good balance and can always keep the weight out in front it's not an issue, however, for younger lifters and upstart cleaners it could potentially be a problem (and a good laugh for fellow gym members).
> ...



Yeah the stomp on an Oly can be a bit much without runners on, I have learned to land very differently since training without runners on to say the least. No less powerful, but I land the the ball of my foot slightly and fade back, as if running. Otherwise you will murder your heels, for sure.


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## TRENCHLORD (Dec 10, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Yeah the stomp on an Oly can be a bit much without runners on, I have learned to land very differently since training without runners on to say the least. No less powerful, but I land the the ball of my foot slightly and fade back, as if running. Otherwise you will murder your heels, for sure.


 
Flat foots allow for a better jump as well since it gives the calves more range to accelerate the weight, and really it does train balance a bit better. I've used my flatfoots now and then, and you do have to be very precise which is a good thing.

edit; Not sure if it's possible to catch in true full squat like the big boys do (actual olympians), those guys use very elevated heels but with the big flat squared off bottoms to prevent rollback.


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## Blake1970 (Jan 4, 2012)

Informative video on doing squats.


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## Blake1970 (Jan 4, 2012)

Will a mod be so kind as to move this video to Beginner at squats please? Thanks!


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## Greatoliver (Jan 4, 2012)

Thanks for all the help!


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## Greatoliver (May 21, 2012)

So a massive bump here, but I have a bit of a dilemma: over summer, I'll be at a gym that has a smith machine, and a free bar, but it doesn't have a power rack. It has a weight bar, but the bar is supported at waist level max. Should I use the smith machine to squat, or would it be better to just use the assorted leg machines instead?


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## Captain Shoggoth (May 21, 2012)

If you're not squatting a huge amount of weight at the moment, you could clean/press the loaded bar over your head then onto your back, and then maybe some days do front squats.

I'm hunting for a power rack currently, but right now my home gym only has an Olympic bench and I do all sorts of squats (that said, I'm only 5'7 so height isn't a big issue for me)


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## Winspear (May 21, 2012)

^ Yeah I was thinking this. Perhaps wear your legs out some with a leg press and then squat a weight that you can shoulder press. For me I do 50kg presses and 100kg squats, so it wouldn't be much use without tiring the legs first I'd think.


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## Harry (May 21, 2012)

Yeah, I REALLY don't recommend the loading the bar onto your back thing.
It's just really not safe at all. To get the bar off of your traps/back again, you need to behind the neck press it up, which absolutely rips up your shoulders unless you have supreme shoulder mobility or just generally are better built biomechanically for it. It really doesn't take much weight at all to aggravate the shoulders doing behind the neck presses. 
Sure, not everyone will get injured and I see some freak-ish guys at the gym that can BTNP with no problem, but honestly, you would be wise to just not take the risk in the first place unless I knew for certain I had either A) a good biomechanical structure for it B) top shelf shoulder mobility

I know this from personal experience too, it's a big reason why my shoulders got fucked up (in addition to having no clue how to bench properly in the beginning) and I couldn't do ANY pressing/tricep extension movements for 9 months.
Plenty of other bad things that could happen in the more immediate time frame of things too.

Stick to power cleaning the weight up and just doing front squats. At least that way, you can set the weight back down safely to the ground again without fear of something going seriously wrong. Watch a lot of videos on youtube on how to powerclean so you can get an idea of how to get the weight moving better and more efficiently without totally throwing out your back or whatever.
You can always do romanian deadlifts if you want hamstring strength and size, it's not a big loss not being able to back squat for a little while.
Switch it up between the squats and leg press too. Some squat elitists may say otherwise, but there's nothing wrong with leg pressing if you do it right.


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## morrowcosom (May 22, 2012)

Definitely be inside of a power rack (one of those racks where you take the bar off of the pins and there are adjustable safety catch bars if you fail). Do not position the pins high enough where you have to go onto your toes to get the bar off. 

Box squats: 

Get a low box or bench and put it behind where you are lifting the bar off the rack.

Grab the bar and put your head and shoulders underneath the bar, then put your hands as close together as possible and pull your shoulders down and back, so that you have a shelf on your upper back where the bar can rest. Now lift off, keep focused on a spot in front a little above head height trough out the lift, pick a comfortable stance. With chest out and back arched, knees pushed outward, slowly sit *back* onto the box like you are sitting back onto a toilet, and as soon as you touch it, while still maintaining that erect upper body posture come up. Start out very light and add 5lbs a session. 

Squats are not a lift that comes naturally to most, but I find box squats to help immensely with building technique (using hamstrings and glutes, sitting back instead of bending at the knees) 

Search for box squats on T-Nation (google T-Nation, it is an outstanding website) 


Just noticed: That video series a couple posts above is awesome. Listen to it and practice it.


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## Winspear (May 22, 2012)

morrowcosom said:


> I find box squats to help immensely with building technique (using hamstrings and glutes, sitting back instead of bending at the knees)



Absolutely. So many of my friends didn't get it or just didn't feel confident sitting back until they tried the box, even just for one rep and they were sorted.


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## Aevolve (May 23, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> Always stretch after a leg session. I always neglect stretching all body parts to be honest, but if I don't do my quads I literally will not be walking for 3 days.



Forgot to just yesterday and now I have ridiculous cramps in my quads. Made work hell. This, +1.


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## TRENCHLORD (May 24, 2012)

This guy has excellent technique given the weight he's lifting.


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## texshred777 (May 25, 2012)

Greatoliver said:


> Thanks for your help! I'll look at the deadlifts thread. I noticed about the asian squat thing when I went to vietnam last year, I found it so uncomfortable.
> 
> What are the benefits of using a bar over dumbells? The gym I go to has a bar, but I am not always able to go there, so I would have to use the set of dumbells at home.


 
The benefit is that it's difficult to get a heavy work load with dumbbells due to the strength requirement of your hands. Do some squats with say, 150 lbs. Not much weight is it? Now try holding 75 lb dumbbells in each hand and do squats. 

That's not to say you can't effectively do squats with dumbbells. I do it periodically for variety or if I want to bang out a quick circuit or two and not leave the DB area. My current gym doesn't have a squat rack(only smith machines..grr) and having a cable assist with keeping the bar straight really takes away from the core strength and stability component of squats. Often I'll just do lunges. 

edit:Actually, don't do that-I won't be responsible for you injuring yourself.


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