# Factory Second & "B" stock guitars - good deals or hidden problems?



## M3CHK1LLA (May 24, 2010)

on another thread i started awhile back we discussed the best 7 string for your buck. several of us started talking about buying used or seconds.

alot of big name guitars are being sold on ebay as factory seconds or b stock. had a couple guys say they have bought one with slight blemishes or chips but the guitar was great + a good deal. someone else said you had to watch out cause there may be more wrong then was mentioned - horror stories of hidden cracks & warped necks.

anyone care to share any info or dealings with these guitars? i'd like to hear from guys who work at music stores & seen them first hand? are some brands b stocks better then others? would you buy one?


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## MF_Kitten (May 24, 2010)

alot of the time they´ll describe the problem. finishing problems and scratches and dings are all non-issues, as far as functionality goes.


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## Arminius (May 24, 2010)

Most places let you return them if they are unplayable, but it's usually just a finish scratch anyway. My blackjack was B-stock, and is to this date the best guitar I have ever played.


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## theperfectcell6 (May 24, 2010)

One of my Ibanez S guitars is B stock and it is still basically perfect. There is a small cosmetic blemish on the back. I was worried when I ordered it, but the $200 off was WELL worth it.


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## ellengtrgrl (May 24, 2010)

IMO, most of the time, the issues are just cosmetic in nature. My Schecter Omen Extreme 7 fits into this category. The clear top coat wasn't put on properly in spots, so it's a little cloudy. I can live with that, especially since the guitar plays fine, and I got it new, for $100 less than what they typically go for.

But there are some that can be iffy. I tried out a Gretsch G5129 one time, that had a crack starting in the back of the body, due to a sound post issue (the guitar was a hollowbody). While it was $150 cheaper than A-stock, it would have needed work to keep the crack from spreading over time. I didn't want to deal with that (cleats would have needed to have been put in the wood at the crack, from the inside of the guitar [a real pain to do IMO]), so I opted not to buy it.


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## DarkMythras (May 24, 2010)

I got my Damien-7 half off (  ) because of a barely visible scratch in the finish near the bridge. If the stuff is minor and you don't mind it, B-stock are a VERY good idea


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 25, 2010)

well so far it has been positive stuff - i was sure i was gonna hear some horror stories


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## Stealthdjentstic (May 25, 2010)

A friend of mine bought a 1527 off Musicians Friend that was B stock and it had exactly what they said it had, some minor chips/dings. Well worth the discounted price IMO.


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## Triple-J (May 25, 2010)

I've bought B-stock Schecters from a guy on ebay and they've turned out to be really good and in most cases the blemish is something you can sort out yourself anyway they just don't want to do it on the production line so they sell it off elsewhere.


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## Fionn (May 25, 2010)

same as above!


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## eaeolian (May 25, 2010)

I bought a B-stock LTD Horizon (can't remember the exact model, it was years ago) that had a twist in the neck. The seller refunded my money, but it still kinda sucked.


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## Soopahmahn (May 25, 2010)

eaeolian said:


> I bought a B-stock LTD Horizon (can't remember the exact model, it was years ago) that had a twist in the neck. The seller refunded my money, but it still kinda sucked.



My very first real guitar was a Gibson Les Paul Studio, and it has a twist in the neck, and it was _not _a B-stock  and believe me, it wasn't sold for a B-stock price either 

There's always that risk buying a guitar you can't get your hands on, so make sure you're good at evaluating neck condition especially.

And +1 to all the comments - usually we're talking about a finish bubble or a tool mark or a poorly cut fret or three.


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## mattofvengeance (May 25, 2010)

Soopahmahn said:


> My very first real guitar was a Gibson Les Paul Studio, and it has a twist in the neck, and it was _not _a B-stock  and believe me, it wasn't sold for a B-stock price either
> 
> There's always that risk buying a guitar you can't get your hands on, so make sure you're good at evaluating neck condition especially.
> 
> And +1 to all the comments - usually we're talking about a finish bubble or a tool mark or a poorly cut fret or three.



Yes, and let's not forget the 8 string you're currently slinging was a prototype, so whatever issues *could* have been present, you would've had to deal with. I know for certain, as I've played the guitar, that there are no such issues, but that's neither here nor there. 

Agile tends to put their B stocks and such up for sale every so often, and that's definitely a good place to get a decent price on a new axe


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## Ironberry (May 25, 2010)

Almost all B-stocks I've seen on Rondomusic either are well described or have left the buyer puzzled because they can never seem to find anything wrong with them. Personally, If a guitar I wanted was a B stock and I had the cash I'd grab it.


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## screamindaemon (May 25, 2010)

I can't find the link now, but I know of only one situation where a B stock was returned. And I think it's the current Lizard burst 827 Interceptor on the website.
The B stock quote was a blemish on the 15th fret, or something like that, and it turned out that the entire fretwork was off...
Though, the poster never mentioned if s/he had the guitar set-up professionally.

As for me, I have a 97 purple Ibanez S B stock. First one I ever owned and it still plays great to this day. I take it with me as my backup to my Prestige S. It is a very comparable guitar.

I have a funny feeling that no company will release a B stock that is truly unplayable. I'm sure there are exceptions, but it's simply bad business to attach your name to an instrument that is such poor quality that not even a dirt cheap price tag could explain why it is on the wall.


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## Soopahmahn (May 25, 2010)

mattofvengeance said:


> Yes, and let's not forget the 8 string you're currently slinging was a prototype, so whatever issues *could* have been present, you would've had to deal with. I know for certain, as I've played the guitar, that there are no such issues, but that's neither here nor there.



Jim probably would have accepted a return if I had a legitimate complaint about quality... so I guess this speaks to the return policy of where you're considering buying from.


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## M3CHK1LLA (May 27, 2010)

Ironberry said:


> Almost all B-stocks I've seen on Rondomusic either are well described or have left the buyer puzzled because they can never seem to find anything wrong with them. Personally, If a guitar I wanted was a B stock and I had the cash I'd grab it.


 
well that good news cause i was gonna look at their 7 strings too. is there a special button to click or page that shows the blems?



screamindaemon said:


> I can't find the link now, but I know of only one situation where a B stock was returned. And I think it's the current Lizard burst 827 Interceptor on the website.
> The B stock quote was a blemish on the 15th fret, or something like that, and it turned out that the entire fretwork was off...
> Though, the poster never mentioned if s/he had the guitar set-up professionally.
> 
> ...


 
you know, that makes sense cause alot of these places on ebay are music stores w/ good ratings. the thing that scared me was some of the guitars had no factory warranty.



Soopahmahn said:


> Jim probably would have accepted a return if I had a legitimate complaint about quality... so I guess this speaks to the return policy of where you're considering buying from.


 
good idea - checking their return policy would be a great indication of who to trust, but again no factory warranty??.......or is this a joke between you guys about the company not accepting a return


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 6, 2010)

i friend of mine got a new "b" stock 7 string eastman er7. the only thing wrong was on the back - the stained wood was a little darker on one side then the other. everything else was great - no problems at all. cost like $1800 new, got his for only $1050 + shipping!

anybody else get a high end guitar for cheap just cause of a few blemishes?


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## ncbrock (Jun 6, 2010)

i also had a schecter b stock 6 string. It said it had some cosmetic flaws but when it arrived i really couldnt see them


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## technomancer (Jun 6, 2010)

screamindaemon said:


> I can't find the link now, but I know of only one situation where a B stock was returned. And I think it's the current Lizard burst 827 Interceptor on the website.
> The B stock quote was a blemish on the 15th fret, or something like that, and it turned out that the entire fretwork was off...
> Though, the poster never mentioned if s/he had the guitar set-up professionally.



That was me, and I do all my own setup work and have for years. A setup will not fix uneven frets, which was the problem that guitar had. A couple of frets on the treble side were lower than the others on the upper end of the fretboard. The problem was easily visible with a straight edge. I could have gotten a fret level, crown, and polish locally and the total would have come in at less than the new guitar price, I just didn't feel like screwing with it.

With that said I've had a couple of Agile B-stock guitars in the past that were just minor cosmetic issues, and was quite happy with them. For the amount this was marked down ($300 IIRC) I figured there was more than a simple fretboard blemish wrong with it.

As always the return went smoothly so I was out nothing, and I would have no hesitation buying a Rondo B-stock again if something I wanted with an acceptable issue popped up


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 6, 2010)

^ good to hear they took care of you cause they seem to have a good rep on this site. didnt know much about them till this forum. ive been looking at several of the 7's & 8's they offer. is there a link to their b stock stuff?


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## Origin (Jun 6, 2010)

Douglas WPB-955T 5-String TR B Stock at RondoMusic.com

Full disclosure but a fairly large problem...  my point being it's a double-edged sword yes, but if you have awesome honest people like Rondo or (good) eBayers to deal with, they tend to be very honest and it tends to only be a problem for collectors and their ilk.


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## snowblind56 (Jun 6, 2010)

I had a B Stock Jackson Rhoads come into the shop used and the tunematic bridge was placed about a 1/4" off. The Low E string was almost hanging off the fingerboard and the High E was about 1/4" in from the end. One would have needed to plug the holes and re-drill them. I think that was one of the rare actual problems. I would agree that most of them are just finish damages.


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## technomancer (Jun 6, 2010)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> ^ good to hear they took care of you cause they seem to have a good rep on this site. didnt know much about them till this forum. ive been looking at several of the 7's & 8's they offer. is there a link to their b stock stuff?



They don't really have exclusive listings for their B stocks, but new stuff gets put on this page on their site that is regularly updated (both new stuff that came in and B stocks):

New Rondo Music Items


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 7, 2010)

Origin said:


> Douglas WPB-955T 5-String TR B Stock at RondoMusic.com
> 
> Full disclosure but a fairly large problem...  my point being it's a double-edged sword yes, but if you have awesome honest people like Rondo or (good) eBayers to deal with, they tend to be very honest and it tends to only be a problem for collectors and their ilk.


 


technomancer said:


> They don't really have exclusive listings for their B stocks, but new stuff gets put on this page on their site that is regularly updated (both new stuff that came in and B stocks):
> 
> New Rondo Music Items


 
  thanks for the links & the info guys



snowblind56 said:


> I had a B Stock Jackson Rhoads come into the shop used and the tunematic bridge was placed about a 1/4" off. The Low E string was almost hanging off the fingerboard and the High E was about 1/4" in from the end. One would have needed to plug the holes and re-drill them. I think that was one of the rare actual problems. I would agree that most of them are just finish damages.


 
these are the kind problems i was always scared of. but if the sellers are honest and have good reputation + a good return policies in place then everything should be fine.

i noticed that some sellers mentions that they stamp a "b" or "s" after the s/n on their guitars to singnify a blem or factory second. is that true for all mfg's? are they held to some rule or law they must obey? is there a way you could get a used factory second and not know it? i wonder if guitar mfg websites would let you search s/n's to identify them?


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## snowblind56 (Jun 7, 2010)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> i noticed that some sellers mentions that they stamp a "b" or "s" after the s/n on their guitars to singnify a blem or factory second. is that true for all mfg's? are they held to some rule or law they must obey? is there a way you could get a used factory second and not know it? i wonder if guitar mfg websites would let you search s/n's to identify them?



Most of the ones that I saw either have a B stamped in the back of the headstock or on the end of the fretboard.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 7, 2010)

snowblind56 said:


> Most of the ones that I saw either have a B stamped in the back of the headstock or on the end of the fretboard.


 
well still, does anyone know? are they held to some rule or law they must obey? is there a way you could get a used factory second and not know it? i wonder if guitar mfg websites would let you search s/n's to identify them?


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 10, 2010)

there is acutally a site for these!

B-Stock Guitars : B-Stock, Blemished, Factory Second, Refurbished & Discount Guitars

im gonna look into it - see if i can find any deals


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## Andromalia (Jun 10, 2010)

Everything says "out of stock" anyway.


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## DarkMythras (Jun 10, 2010)

My Schecter has a "2" on the bottom of the fretboard (for factory 2nd). I would imagine that B stocks would always have markings, unless someone went out of thier way to sand the serial number off the back of the headstock or something


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 10, 2010)

Andromalia said:


> Everything says "out of stock" anyway.


 
yeah i noticed that too. bummer cause there were some good deals. this may be a site where some of these guitar shops buy from & put them in their stores or on ebay. im gonna keep checking it.



DarkMythras said:


> My Schecter has a "2" on the bottom of the fretboard (for factory 2nd). I would imagine that B stocks would always have markings, unless someone went out of thier way to sand the serial number off the back of the headstock or something


 
i saw where some of the mfg use a "2" on this website also - good to know.


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## Vairocarnal (Jun 11, 2010)

Do these count as "b" stocks or are they just straight rip-offs?

Cool, Black,Mirror Pickguard,7 string electric Guitar For Sale

Red Abalone Binding Maple Top 7 string electric Guitar For Sale


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## Andromalia (Jun 11, 2010)

They're copies, and likely poor ones since there is no real pic to verify.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 11, 2010)

Vairocarnal said:


> Do these count as "b" stocks or are they just straight rip-offs?
> 
> Cool, Black,Mirror Pickguard,7 string electric Guitar For Sale
> 
> Red Abalone Binding Maple Top 7 string electric Guitar For Sale


 
i saw this guy on ebay - he's got a bad rep now, maybe even kicked off. he was using actual mfg pics too. i emailed him once to see if they were real and he said they were made in china but would look just the real ones.



Andromalia said:


> They're copies, and likely poor ones since theres no real pic to verify.


 
i think he refered to them as replicas 

yeah, he had a esp/ltd dj-600 at one time told me it would have "dan j" on the h.s. and "emg" would be on the pups too.

that pic of the uv777bk (used to have one) is real - you can see that the headstock was photo shopped & ibanez logo removed.

im sure a few people got ripped off - i would like to see one in person though - just for laughs


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## Vairocarnal (Jun 12, 2010)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> i saw this guy on ebay - he's got a bad rep now, maybe even kicked off. he was using actual mfg pics too. i emailed him once to see if they were real and he said they were made in china but would look just the real ones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good to know, thanks.


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## LUCKY7 (Jun 12, 2010)

I have bought a few new b-stock guitars from Musicians Friend...

Duff Fender bass- no flaws found yet
Roland Fender Strat- missing trembolo bar, tags, allen keys
Joe Strummer Tele- (road worn) can't find any flaws (LOL)
UV77- slight pitting around the bridge
Ibanez Giger RGHRG1- slight greyish "thumb print" on side


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## asstone (Jun 16, 2010)

i ordered a b stock, 8 string from Rondo music.

The problem was described as a inch brown mark at the armrest, which was a perfect description of the issue. 

However, since the finish is stained maple bookmatched veneer the imperfection is even harder to spot.

Due to this issue the guitar was reduced in price by a massive 30%. 

I ordered it without ever thinking twice.


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## rcsierra13 (Jun 16, 2010)

eBay My World - mauery21804

this guy is great. sells mainly schecters on ebay that are b stock. low prices and sometimes posts for free


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jun 17, 2010)

LUCKY7 said:


> I have bought a few new b-stock guitars from Musicians Friend...
> 
> Duff Fender bass- no flaws found yet
> Roland Fender Strat- missing trembolo bar, tags, allen keys
> ...


 
what do you think the total you save was?



asstone said:


> i ordered a b stock, 8 string from Rondo music.
> 
> The problem was described as a inch brown mark at the armrest, which was a perfect description of the issue.
> 
> ...


 
that would not be an issue with me - if i saved $300 off a $1000 guitar it would go towards another.



rcsierra13 said:


> eBay My World - mauery21804
> 
> this guy is great. sells mainly schecters on ebay that are b stock. low prices and sometimes posts for free


 
ive been looking at schecters too - i'll check it out

thx man


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