# Need help with a decent 8 string tone.



## Connor (Sep 6, 2010)

My first 8 string came today. Its a schecter Damien Elite 8.
EMG 808 pickups, 26.5 scale, Schecter thru birdge, 1 tone, 1 volume, 3 way switch.
Only thing is I cant get it to sound how I want. 
Ive had my Ibanez 7 string for about a year, that was fairly easy to get a decent tone with.
I've tried all kinds of things to get the Schecter sounding decent but its going nowhere, the f# just takes over everything.
I want to get both the dirty and clean sounds similar to that of Tosin Abasi.
I've boosted the mids, cut down the lows, added more into the high end but nothing will happen.
At the moment im going through an MXR fullbore metal into a Marshall MG15.
I think the amp might be the problem, I dont think the solid state 15W can handle the lower range.
can anyone offer me any advice?


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## xtrustisyoursx (Sep 6, 2010)

What size strings do you use?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 6, 2010)

What do your gain/drive settings look like on both your amp and pedal?


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## Connor (Sep 6, 2010)

Im not 100% sure as I got it today but im fairly sure the schecter factory sets them up with
10-13-17-30-42-52-64-74


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## Connor (Sep 6, 2010)

No gain/ drive on the amp, on the pedal gain is on just past half way


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## Vinnydude (Sep 7, 2010)

Am i reading this correctly.

You want a sound like tosins?

Through a marshal mg15?

A tiny, under a hundred dollar, practice amp?!

Surely you shouldn't be having to ask whats wrong with your tone on a forum when using something like that.

For your information though, you want tosins tone, you'll need a custom ibby going into an Axe-FX Ultra. I reckon in total will set you back the best part of $8k.


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## Connor (Sep 7, 2010)

Similar, not exactly the same. 
My guitar has the same woods, neck and pickups as tosins.
I just want more clarity out of it rather than having the low end over-riding everything, which was stated in the original post.


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## bostjan (Sep 7, 2010)

First, as pointed out, and as you suspect, your amp will not have a very good response in that frequency range. The preamp is not designed for high gain on the low-end, and the speaker is not going to handle the low register well at all.

Second, on such a deep string, fretted notes are just not going to sound that great, even with the 26.5" scale length, because 26.5" is not much longer than 25.5" for string gauges that high.

Also, the string gauges you listed result in nearly double the tension on the A2 .042" (~130 N) as on the low F#1 .074" (~70 N). You may want to re-evaluate the strings you use under this light. Using a larger string for the low F# will provide more tension, but at the cost of clarity. A .074" at 46Hz and 26.5" has an inharmonic error of about 25 cents. Cranking the thickness up to .100" to get the tension to match the fifth string will increase the error to 60 cents, so the harmonics will be more than double as muddy.


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## Vinnydude (Sep 7, 2010)

Conner, i'll rephrase my first statement to be even more blunt.

Guitar = fine

Amp = peice of crap

Is that simple enough?!

It doesn't matter how good your guitar is, if you plug it in to a shit amp, it will sound LIKE SHIT!!!


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## Distortion (Sep 7, 2010)

Hmmmm... Don't want to high-jack the thread but what is his inharmonic error you speak of bostjan ? I'm very interested as i'm trying to achieve such a low tunning on a RG7620 25.5". I've just ordered a .72 and a .74 string to experiment with. I've tried .80 and as others have pointed out, it did have a very nice tension and it sound very nice and throaty unplugged but muddy and dull distorted.

So, if you can explain, what is inharmonic error and how is it calculated? thanks!


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## Razzy (Sep 7, 2010)

Vinnydude said:


> Guitar = fine
> 
> Amp = peice of crap


 

I almost want to rep you for this post.


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## bostjan (Sep 7, 2010)

Distortion said:


> So, if you can explain, what is inharmonic error and how is it calculated? thanks!



Inharmonic error is the physical property of a string to behave like a bell instead of a string. A perfect string should have length>>thickness, but as length approaches something closer to the thickness, the "string" becomes a metal bar, so it will sound wonky, like a thumb piano (malimba) rather than a string.

The error is calculated by the equation G= ( n^2 * pi^3 * d^4 * Y ) / ( 128 * L^2 * F )

where n is the harmonic number, pi is 3.14159265, d is the thickness of the string (in meters), Y is young's modulus (in pascals), L is the scale length (in meters) and F is the tension on the string (in newtons).

To convert to cents, one must take 1200 * log2 (frequency of first harmonic / expected fundamental frequency)

This is bad news for extended range guitarist wanting a clear tone on the low notes, because the inharmonicity is strongly governed by string gauge. So tuning a guitar to bass frequencies at 25.5" means either floppy strings or wonky harmonics.


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## Customisbetter (Sep 7, 2010)

Connor said:


> My first 8 string came today.
> 
> ...into a Marshall MG15.



I never thought i would ever see this. Ever.


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## Vinnydude (Sep 7, 2010)

Razzy said:


> I almost want to rep you for this post.



I'm not disrespecting marshall, hell no! 

My first post was disregarded so i mearly put in a simpler form that you cannot get an amazing 8 string tone similar to the sound of Tosin Abasi out of a 15 watt practice amp. Its NOT rocket science people come on!!!


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## Vinnydude (Sep 7, 2010)

Razzy said:


> I almost want to rep you for this post.



Oh wait, report or reputation?! lol


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## Razzy (Sep 7, 2010)

Vinnydude said:


> Oh wait, report or reputation?! lol


 
Reputation, lol.

I thought it was hilarious.


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## Vinnydude (Sep 7, 2010)

Razzy said:


> Reputation, lol.
> 
> I thought it was hilarious.



Why thank you, its so true though! 

I really must have my 'world is out to get me' head on today! lmao


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## Stealthdjentstic (Sep 7, 2010)

Really man? As far as practice amps go the MG is probably the worst of the bunch  You aren't going to be getting Tosin's tone from that PoS. You really should have spent that money on a new amp instead. Seriously, you aren't going to be getting anything close to his tone with that. I have no idea why you went and bought a guitar like that without upgrading your amp first.


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## Vinnydude (Sep 7, 2010)

I've heard good this about this one, you should check it out


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## bostjan (Sep 7, 2010)

^ Hey, I have one of those, in Red!


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## Vinnydude (Sep 7, 2010)

bostjan said:


> ^ Hey, I have one of those, in Red!



I heard that if you run your lead from the guitar up your ass then out your japs eye and into that monster of an amp, it sounds just like Tosin Abasi.


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## paintkilz (Sep 7, 2010)

Connor said:


> Similar, not exactly the same.
> My guitar has the same woods, neck and pickups as tosins.
> I just want more clarity out of it rather than having the low end over-riding everything, which was stated in the original post.



you have the same pickups.


the woods and neck are vastly different comparing your shecter to the 2228.


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## paintkilz (Sep 7, 2010)

Vinnydude said:


> I've heard good this about this one, you should check it out



i used to have a boosted clip of that prac amp..haha its in my drawer somewhere...amp in the dresser drawer????!!!


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## Connor (Sep 7, 2010)

I also have a crate flexwave 120W going into a krank revolution cab.
But i find the crate to be worse than the marshall.
So if I were to buy a new head thats a reasonable price, under $2000AUD, what would it be?
Keeping in mind ENGL's are hard to come by for under $4000 here, same with Mesa and H&K.


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## Connor (Sep 7, 2010)

I was considering going an Engl e530 preamp > Rocktron Velocity 300 (or 100 depending on the price difference) > Krank rev cab.


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## geofreesun (Sep 7, 2010)

man, this is what i have: 

agile septor 827 with bkp CS bridge --- engl e530 (built in poweramp) ---- krank rev jr cab (90w 112) and the tone is to die for  

i just got a mesa studio preamp today, hard to tweak, so far, i am not liking the saggy mesa tone...



Connor said:


> I was considering going an Engl e530 preamp > Rocktron Velocity 300 (or 100 depending on the price difference) > Krank rev cab.


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## Vinnydude (Sep 8, 2010)

Connor, what is wrong with you?

Rocktron? ROCKTRON?!!!!

Fuck man.

$2000, just buy a frigging tube amp!!!

If you can't afford top notch engl/randall/mesa etc etc, have a try with the Line 6/Bogner HD100, its what i currently have till I upgrade to a pro setup, its by far the best line 6 amp, it actually has character!!! lol


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## xtrustisyoursx (Sep 8, 2010)

Vinnydude said:


> Connor, what is wrong with you?
> 
> Rocktron? ROCKTRON?!!!!
> 
> ...


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## Vinnydude (Sep 8, 2010)

Dude, if you can recommend a better one for the price go right ahead, but as far as the bang to buck ratio goes, that thing is actually pretty good, and as i said, i am making do with it till i can afford a pro rig.


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## xtrustisyoursx (Sep 8, 2010)

Vinnydude said:


> Dude, if you can recommend a better one for the price go right ahead, but as far as the bang to buck ratio goes, that thing is actually pretty good, and as i said, i am making do with it till i can afford a pro rig.




I'm referring to your "oh noooooes rocktron omgeeeez it isn't tubes" ridiculing attitude.


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## caparison_x (Sep 8, 2010)

Can I personally suggest an ENGL E650. I use my LTD SC608 with EMG 808s and the amp is exceptionally clear. I generally use relatively flat tone settings and have the Lead Gain set to around 4 which give me very clear distortion tone.


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## Distortion (Sep 8, 2010)

bostjan said:


> Inharmonic error is the physical property of a string to behave like a bell instead of a string. A perfect string should have length>>thickness, but as length approaches something closer to the thickness, the "string" becomes a metal bar, so it will sound wonky, like a thumb piano (malimba) rather than a string.
> 
> The error is calculated by the equation G= ( n^2 * pi^3 * d^4 * Y ) / ( 128 * L^2 * F )
> 
> ...



Thanks a bunch man, very interesting stuff


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 8, 2010)

Vinnydude said:


> Connor, what is wrong with you?
> 
> Rocktron? ROCKTRON?!!!!
> 
> Fuck man.



Have you actually used those Rocktrons? These aren't cheap V10s and V30s. I love tube tone just as much as the next guy, but those Velocity power amps are solid as fuck. If they're powering a good preamp of course. 

I'd take a Velocity with GSP1101 any day.


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## mattofvengeance (Sep 8, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Have you actually used those Rocktrons? These aren't cheap V10s and V30s. I love tube tone just as much as the next guy, but those Velocity power amps are solid as fuck. If they're powering a good preamp of course.
> 
> I'd take a Velocity with GSP1101 any day.



Exactly. That combo would annihilate that Line 6/Bogner, and it would cost less too.


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## Ben.Last (Sep 8, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'd take a Velocity with GSP1101 any day.



That's my plan. Glad you approve.


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## vampiregenocide (Sep 8, 2010)

MG series sound shit as it is, couldn't imagine how they'd sound with an 8 string.


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## Inception7 (Sep 8, 2010)

I just play through a Boss ME-70 and headphones. I like my tone fine enough.


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## furywhip (Sep 8, 2010)

If you don't or can't blow your wad on an Axe FX or a Digidesign Eleven you can dial in those tones on Guitar Rig 4 with a ART Tube MP in front. 
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my mistake, you want amp advice and not software tips.

And buying an EQ pedal wouldn't hurt. There is a lot more going into Tosin's tone than just his guitar, amp and pickups. He's definitely got his settings/amp/cab/mics/eq/compression dialed into that Axe FX.


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## Joan Maal (Dec 19, 2017)

Inception7 said:


> I just play through a Boss ME-70 and headphones. I like my tone fine enough.



I do the same with my RG2228 + Boss GT10 + Headphones. Tone is simply ok, so id love to get a better tone by adjusting the equalization


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## Shoeless_jose (Dec 22, 2017)

why was this revived????


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## jwade (Dec 22, 2017)

Dang, a seven+ year necrobump. Nice.


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