# Any Engineers or Engineering students on this board?



## OnTheEdge234 (Jan 9, 2017)

I thought I would post this as this has been on my mind a lot in the past week or so.

How do you guys balance your engineering careers with guitar playing?

I kind of find it somewhat tricky, because I feel like its either be good at one or the other. I am one of those guys who would prefer to be really good at something than doing multiple things and being mediocre at all of them lol. 

I am considering working on engineering given the fact I am unemployed right now and have an engineering degree.


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## CapnForsaggio (Jan 9, 2017)

You have the right idea.

Pay the bills as an engineer. 

10 years later, you can have any guitar collection you want, and the free time to play it. Just don't have any kids.


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## OnTheEdge234 (Jan 9, 2017)

CapnForsaggio said:


> You have the right idea.
> 
> Pay the bills as an engineer.
> 
> 10 years later, you can have any guitar collection you want, and the free time to play it. Just don't have any kids.



What do you mean I have the right idea? Can you explain?

Yeah I don't plan on having kids....I am not patient for anything like that.

Well I do want to be a great guitar player, I think I am close. I mainly just need to improve songwriting, improvisation, and then I am done.


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## CapnForsaggio (Jan 9, 2017)

OnTheEdge234 said:


> I am considering working on engineering given the fact I am unemployed right now and have an engineering degree.



This is what I mean by the right idea.

If you are unemployed, and the choice is to:

1) Play guitar, then profit OR
2) Find work as an engineer, then profit

I recommend #2.

Many people play guitar, better than you. Better than me. Better than your buddy who has a band that almost made it.....


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## OnTheEdge234 (Jan 9, 2017)

CapnForsaggio said:


> This is what I mean by the right idea.
> 
> If you are unemployed, and the choice is to:
> 
> ...



Well that's discouraging.


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## TedEH (Jan 9, 2017)

OnTheEdge234 said:


> and then I am done.



When it comes to learning or playing an instrument, there's no such thing as "done". Same with engineering. Same with any skill. It's not about "being done", it's about experience and where else you can or want to take it.

Obviously there's a point to be made that there's always going to be someone out there who is "better" but hasn't "made it" or someone who has experienced a lot of success without any real skill - but none of those things have any bearing on what you choose to do with your time/effort/money/life.

Realistically, at the end of the day, playing guitar is not a job for 99% of people. Being the best guitar player in the world isn't going to make you a living unless you apply it in some way, as with any other skill that people monetize. Guitar teaching makes money. Audio engineering makes money. Being a good guitar player on it's own does not generate money.



> its either be good at one or the other.



That's a self-imposed limitation. There's no reason you can't be good at two-or-more things.

If you have to prioritize making a living, then a proper engineering career is the obvious/safe choice.


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## bpprox22 (Jan 9, 2017)

You describe something I've given some thought to before. 

It is all too common to see a well-off, financially sound, individual that is okay at playing and then see an absolute beast of a player that is a total s*** show of a person. Those are the extremes of the spectrum however... It is definitely possible to be an engineer and a great musician, you just have to be very good at time management. I work in IT as a developer and am constantly torn between getting better at guitar and getting better at my craft (programming) when I have free time.

Both excite me but lets be honest, playing guitar well doesn't pay my bills -- also I can't even play well anyways 

Guitar, among other hobbies, is just something I do to have fun. Since there are endless skills to acquire with guitar, I have a lot to look forward to in terms of learning -- even if it's at a slower pace (because of my job).


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## OnTheEdge234 (Jan 9, 2017)

TedEH said:


> When it comes to learning or playing an instrument, there's no such thing as "done". Same with engineering. Same with any skill. It's not about "being done", it's about experience and where else you can or want to take it.
> 
> Obviously there's a point to be made that there's always going to be someone out there who is "better" but hasn't "made it" or someone who has experienced a lot of success without any real skill - but none of those things have any bearing on what you choose to do with your time/effort/money/life.
> 
> ...




Well its hard to understand what good is

Allan holdsworth is great at fusion but I don't think he could do fingerstyle as well 

Tommy Emmanuel is great at fingerstyle but I don't think he could do metal as well

Greg howe is an awesome at what he does, but I have never seen him do slap grooves, or fingerstyle.

I guess its a matter of what I like a lot.


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## fantom (Jan 9, 2017)

TedEH said:


> OnTheEdge234 said:
> 
> 
> > I kind of find it somewhat tricky, because I feel like its either be good at one or the other. I am one of those guys who would prefer to be really good at something than doing multiple things and being mediocre at all of them lol.
> ...



100% agree. If you plan on working as an engineer, you should try to solve this problem. A lot of new graduates are extremely good at working on a single task, but when they have down-time, they are more or less paperweights (and, in some cases, even a distraction to other employees).

Suppose you can multitask. You produce a diagram or proposal that needs senior approval, but the senior engineer is busy. Switch to a new task and work asynchronously.

Oh, and you also won't get burned out!



OnTheEdge234 said:


> How do you guys balance your engineering careers with guitar playing?



Why is it only career vs. guitar? Do you seriously have nothing else in your life? Take the scientific approach. Log how you spend your time for a week. I guarantee you will see what your priorities are vs. what you want them to be.

In college, I could easily spend 12+ hours a week with a band (on top of school, extra-curricular, work, and ex-girlfriend). The main time sinks were the ex-girlfriend and video games.

Now, if I stopped watching Netflix, stopped playing video games, or asked my girlfriend for more personal time, I would have more than enough time to do what I want to prioritize. But it is pretty clear to me that I want to prioritize those things because they help me relax and enjoy life.


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## TedEH (Jan 9, 2017)

There's been a lot of threads on this forum focused on how people try to divide their time between their jobs, hobbies, side projects, family, travel, etc. etc., because we know that music and all the things that surround it can end up being a serious time investment.

Another point to consider is that you don't have to do all the things at the same time. Focus on one thing right now, if that's how you want to do it, maybe in a year or so you will shift priorities and it's perfectly legit to plan to do so.

I have a job, two bands (was three for while), a personal music project, as well as an indie game project all happening more-or-less at the same time. The bands have specific times scheduled out for them, and jobs obviously require a huge chunk of time out of the day, but everything else is on a when-I-feel-like-it basis. I've scheduled a weekend coming soon to do drum tracking for my solo music, and this week I've been in a programming kind of mood, so I've been doing the game dev thing after work. Throw on top of all of this that I'm working on my health, so things like food preparation, taking time aside to get exercise, etc. It sounds like a lot - because it is - but I'm single, live alone, and have decent time management skills, so it's a balance that works for me and feels productive. And I don't stress about it, because there's no point in stressing over that kind of thing. It's all just for my enjoyment/benefit, so it doesn't matter what I do, as long as I make a living somewhere in there. If I come home one day and feel like being a useless bum, I'll just sit and play video games all day, and that's fine. It's good for the brain to have a day or two off every once in a while to shut down and be useless. 

Anyway.... didn't mean to throw up a wall of text, but hopefully something in there is useful.


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## donniekak (Jan 9, 2017)

OnTheEdge234 said:


> Well that's discouraging.



Now you're catching on.....


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## drgamble (Jan 9, 2017)

All of this is relative. Take Tom Scholz for example, he made a fortune in engineering and in music. Now, whether or not you think he is a great guitar player or like the products he makes is another thing.


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## Descent (Jan 9, 2017)

Ex-engineer (pro) and now part time musician...

The guitar playing (originals) never paid the bills, it was a huge money pit. It is fun though...so I never stopped playing. 

The rock star / guitar gig is age related. You have up to about 27 year old to land it in that business so consider that. 

There are some engineers that went exactly that route, like Andy Sneap. Somewhat famous guitarist, once that he got older - he became a studio engineer. 

Did the engineering thing professionally for a few years -I recouped most of my losses from being a guitarist, but still didn't pay the bills as well as some of my other jobs.

If you can hang with playing in cover bands and get a good circuit - guitar can pay better than being and engineer and can land you some hot tail. 

Being an engineer also lands you some hot tail, when the rock band brings in the groupies and it turns out that the slightly older guy that made a bunch of stoners sound good is actually cooler than said stoners...

Probably best bet is to invest into a sound company and then recording so you can do live gigs and recordings. I tried to save my ears and didn't do live shows, thus the income stream was not as good as doing both...but TBH - I'd suggest getting another career, being a system engineer, coder, etc. pays much better than anything in music. 

Or become a teacher - decent salary, cushy job (unless you make a racial faux pas or touch a student you're pretty much set for life), and you have 3 months vacation during which you can be an engineer.


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## donniekak (Jan 9, 2017)

I think the op is in the engineering field as an me, or ee type, not a recording engineer.


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## TedEH (Jan 10, 2017)

^ Re-reading the OP, I think you're right, but the points still stand. Any type of engineering job is going to be a more stable career/lifestyle than trying to turn guitar playing into money.


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## donniekak (Jan 11, 2017)

TedEH said:


> ^ Re-reading the OP, I think you're right, but the points still stand. Any type of engineering job is going to be a more stable career/lifestyle than trying to turn guitar playing into money.



I fully agree. When I learned that skill on the instrument wasn't directly related to success in the industry I bailed. I don't have the personality type to constantly be selling myself everywhere I go.

There are plenty of jobs in the music industry beside rock star, but most have bad hours, travel, and crap pay. Luckily I enjoy music even more when I'm not trying to make it my main revenue stream.


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## m107a1 (Jan 12, 2017)

Agree with others' comments on Engineering to pay the bills and later you can buy whatever you want - cars, guitars, vacations, homes, etc. My wife and I hate kids, so we're "living the life" now as DINKs. I've been an engineer 16 years and hopefully not much longer.


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## glpg80 (Jan 13, 2017)

I have two associates degrees in engineering technology, two bachelor's degrees in electrical and computer engineering, and currently a masters student in electrical engineering.

Since becoming an engineer, I haven't touched a guitar in over 2 years. Most of my gear is for sale or already sold - my passion became engineering during my studies.


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## Descent (Jan 13, 2017)

glpg80 said:


> I have two associates degrees in engineering technology, two bachelor's degrees in electrical and computer engineering, and currently a masters student in electrical engineering.
> 
> Since becoming an engineer, I haven't touched a guitar in over 2 years. Most of my gear is for sale or already sold - my passion became engineering during my studies.



Come on man, we need more EE to work on these tube goodies and other effect related stuff, don't give up the passion for guitar, make a career of it, like Jim Marshall and others.


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## Given To Fly (Jan 13, 2017)

Descent said:


> Come on man, we need more EE to work on these tube goodies and other effect related stuff, don't give up the passion for guitar, make a career of it, like Jim Marshall and others.



There is actually quite a bit of truth in this.


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## CapnForsaggio (Jan 13, 2017)

OP hasn't been back since we rained on his parade....

I sure hope he's practicing that guitar 

Lord knows he's not filling out applications.


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## phugoid (Jan 16, 2017)

OnTheEdge234 said:


> How do you guys balance your engineering careers with guitar playing?
> 
> I kind of find it somewhat tricky, because I feel like its either be good at one or the other. I am one of those guys who would prefer to be really good at something than doing multiple things and being mediocre at all of them lol.



There are more than two possibilities. You can do only one thing, and be totally mediocre at it. 

You can also do lots of things, and be really good at all of them. I aspire to be an awesome parent, husband, engineer, musician, and startup founder. Why not? Half the job is just turning off the TV and getting to work on the things you care about.

What I find interesting, as I get older, is that everything sort of converges. You bring your personality to the table, no matter what you're working on. I'm working on an album now, pretty much the same way I tackle engineering problems and parenting. I try new things and see what works.


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## bostjan (Jan 16, 2017)

Not an engineer, but I am a physicist, working with engineers, whilst trying to balance time for family and music.

In my teens, I spent most of my money on music and schooling. In my 20's, I made a good chunk of my income off of my music, and very little off of my science career. An opportunity came for me to make a decent profession off of music, but it required some cooperation among bandmates, who were notoriously uncooperative, so I decided in a snap to push my science career ahead and hold back on my music career. In my 30's, so far, I made a living as a scientist (actually since I was 29), and I've made a little money on the side doing music, but I still have kept that outlet active. For me, it's personal, since, I can't really imagine a life without music.

At this age, it's weird playing out, particularly in festivals and stuff, where there might be nine other bands, and only one of those bands with anyone my age in them. I think most guys who do music in their 20's end up giving it up by their 30th birthday. The few who stick with it either are really good, or just really like doing it, but it gets tough.

Here's why it's tough in your 30's to be in a touring band:

1. Your body heals slower. In my 20's, I could go full beast mode at a show and after a good morning's sleep, be ready for the world. I now take 3-4 days to recover, and I hear it just keeps getting worse.
2. Your friends won't come out to see you play. Because they will have kids, and because they will also experience #1.
3. It's tougher to make new friends who will come out to see you play. The older you get, the more kids will think of you as that old guy who needs to give it up to make room for more like them.
4. Because of #2 and #3, don't expect it to be at all easy to gain a following, and if you do, prepare for that following to be an order of magnitude more fickle than any following you might have had in your 20's.
5. #4 will feed into #'s 2 and 3, forming a vicious cycle. There will still be rewarding moments, though, which break the cycle, for a while.

If you are fine with all of the above, then by all means, go for music head on, otherwise, maybe balance the two or just keep music as a light hobby.


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## OnTheEdge234 (Jan 17, 2017)

bostjan said:


> Not an engineer, but I am a physicist, working with engineers, whilst trying to balance time for family and music.
> 
> In my teens, I spent most of my money on music and schooling. In my 20's, I made a good chunk of my income off of my music, and very little off of my science career. An opportunity came for me to make a decent profession off of music, but it required some cooperation among bandmates, who were notoriously uncooperative, so I decided in a snap to push my science career ahead and hold back on my music career. In my 30's, so far, I made a living as a scientist (actually since I was 29), and I've made a little money on the side doing music, but I still have kept that outlet active. For me, it's personal, since, I can't really imagine a life without music.
> 
> ...



Yeah I agree man.

I might just do both.....I aint got much to lose or gain in my life bro.

And yeah I am applying for jobs, and I am preparing for interviews

Very few people seem to get a career in music anyways.


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## Dabo Fett (Jan 28, 2017)

I went to school to be an engineer and now I'm a senior business planning analyst at a Fortune 500, all I can say is it's always good to have a back up. 

That being said, there's no reason why you can't be in a band and be an engineer. You're going to be tired but the only time I ever felt burnt doing this was engineering my bands album. For that year (working full time outside of music) it was awesome to have creative control over every aspect of the music, as it was just me and my buddy. But when you start talking about mixing and recording vocals and drums and reprogramming said drums on top of recording and playing lead guitar and bass, and then having to do all the marketing as well, that's when burn out kicks in. 

Do both, especially if you're young and have the time. But try to keep it separate. When my band recorded I had a ton of fun doing live engineering. When my metal band was around I'd record rock and punk and pop. When I joined a stoner band, it was fun to record death metal. And make sure you're open as an engineer. You can't say no, even when it's a dumb idea, figuring out how to make it work and make you happy while keeping the client happy is 99% of the job


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## zeropoint (Jan 31, 2017)

I'm a P.Eng in Canada.

I went into engineering after a few weeks of being useless after highschool and really getting that part of my life out of my system. I literally sold my (only, MIJ 7-string ibby) guitar at the start of first year because I knew I wouldn't have time for it.

Several years later I picked it back up again a few years out of school. By that time I was leading the electrical/power distribution department of a design house with a couple dozen staff and junior engineers in training under me, writing my own software utilities on the side to "make sh1t happen" etc. - I bought a couple of guitars but I honestly was working 60+ hour weeks because the overtime was killer and had no time to pick the guitar back up until the most recent economic slowdown because I had some other personal commitments to take care of (wife in vet school, need to help keep life out of her way 'til she's done.). 

I did play a bit here and there, but not nearly as much as I'd like to have.

Once the slowdown hit and overtime was a no go, I started to really just draw the line at a normal work day and set aside an hour or so a day to just play. I think that was really the key. I put my own free time aside for a long time in order to get ahead a little bit early on, but once I felt I'd been around long enough to really know my craft and get stable, making time to play was easy.

For the record I have zero passion for engineering - but I love teaching and coaching others, so I get a lot of fulfillment out of a leadership role, oddly. I've never been a people person (at all) until I felt like I was helping them learn the ropes and really understand what they're doing.


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## Bearitone (Jan 31, 2017)

If were in your position I would DEFINITELY get an engineering position so I could eat well and have some financial stability. I can only imagine that a consistently high paying income relieves a LOT of stress.

If your passion is guitar then I would start working in engineering, live conservatively, and use every penny that I could to start a guitar business of some kind. Engineer "better" guitars or something new and unique. Something you WISH guitar companies would do but, don't. Get a CNC machine, get really good at solidworks and operating said CNC machine, and then charge people for custom bodies/necks/hardware/knobs/etc...
JUST IDEAS lol. Not saying this will actually work but...

Use the money from the engineering job, and all the skills you develop, to start making money on what you love. Start gearing your life towards doing what you love every day and it may eventually become your primary source of income.

But, you have to start somewhere. So get that engineering job 


At least thats my plan. Not sure if there are any flaws or not but, I guess I'll figure it out.


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## zeropoint (Feb 1, 2017)

No flaws there, tbh unless you burn yourself out on what you love and stop loving it because it's "work".

The saying is it takes money to make money and that's exactly what it means - you might get to work for yourself one day, and in the mean time, ideally you get the added benefit that if your day job vanishes one day you're not completely buried.


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## OnTheEdge234 (Feb 12, 2017)

[..


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## OnTheEdge234 (Feb 12, 2017)

....


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## IGC (Feb 12, 2017)

Probably more chance to make a decent living being an engineer who is also a really good guitar player on the side. This is a possibility, I have met an amazing guitar player or two who can hold down a day job. Don't know about engineers but never say never.


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## CircuitalPlacidity (Feb 12, 2017)

I happen to know a decent guitarist who is an geological engineer. He seems to make time. I also know a drummer who is an engineer and he was one of the best drummers in Houston at the time I met him so it can be done.


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## OnTheEdge234 (Feb 12, 2017)

CircuitalPlacidity said:


> I happen to know a decent guitarist who is an geological engineer. He seems to make time. I also know a drummer who is an engineer and he was one of the best drummers in Houston at the time I met him so it can be done.


 
cool man...


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