# Car Audio - Subwoofer and amp for metal!



## danpluso (Nov 4, 2009)

Hey guys I just bought a Toyota Corolla 1997 recently and I want to get an amp and sub setup for it. I listen to metal (mainly death metal) and that's about it so I thought this would be a good spot to ask since I am sure most of you are metal heads.

The car already has a sony deck and some nice front and rear speakers (not sure what they are but they sound good). So I am just after an amp and sub to add some nice bass to my music.

My budget isn't too big at all. I am hoping to stay around $200-$300.

I have read that 10" subs are better then 12" for metal. 
Are ported or sealed enclosures better for metal? I have read mixed comments on sealed vs ported for metal.

There are some second hand units for sale locally:



> 2 MTX Road Thunder 10" subwoofers in trunk box complete with mounted Pioneer GMX 352 200w amp $200


(Is that little 200watt amp going to be enough for 2 10s?)

and



> 10 inch Type"R" Alpine Sub in Custom Made Ported Box with a Alpine MRP M500 Amp. Sub has 750 watts RMS, Amp has 500 RMS. Only 8 months old and barely brocken in. $400


($400 is a little out of my price range but it doesn't hurt to make an offer. Maybe he will take $350)

I don't know anything about those brands accept I have heard the Alpine name a lot. Is MTX stuff any good? Is that Pioneer amp any good?

For the longest time I always said I would just get an "Infinity Basslink (either I or II)" and that would be that but is the Basslink any good for metal? I like the fact the amp and sub are one unit since that should save on space and make it a bit easier to install.

I can get a brand new Basslink for about $250 or a Basslink II for $310.

The Basslink I is 200Watts with a 10"
The Basslink II is 250watts with a square 10" (Not sure what the deal is with Square subs)

My guess is the Alpine setup for $350 (if he will go that low) will be a better deal then a Basslink II for $310. But is the ported enclosure going to be good for metal?


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## Andii (Nov 4, 2009)

There is no place for subs when listening to metal unless you have the woofer power to balance it and is adjusted carefully. They can be used to taste, but your money would be better spent getting really good 6x9s that have a really good frequency response and a power amp.

If you do get subs a lot of things will have happen for it to sound good:
1. The frequency of the subs must reach to the appropriate range
2. THe power amp running the subs must be set to a good freq. range
3. The woofers must be filtered at the correct point to let the subs do the bass work and the system to work together
4. The subs must have a quick transient response to reproduce the very quick kick drum hits in metal. 

Number 4 is tough. Car components were literally designed for rap music and the average consumer's perception of what sounds good.


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## danpluso (Nov 4, 2009)

Okay the two back speakers are actually 6x9s.

I am not sure what they are exactly and can't look at them ATM because my car isn't here with me.

So would a power amp actually make a big difference over the decks output power when just powering 2 6x9s and 2 what ever the size is that fits in the doors?

My brother listens to rap and has a sub in his car that pounds. I listened to metal in his car before and I though it sounded really good. The sound just seems fuller with a sub to me anyways.


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## m3ta1head (Nov 4, 2009)

You want a sealed box, definitely-sealed boxes are tighter and more accurate. Ported boxes are louder, but at the compromise of bass quality and reproduction.

A nice, punchy 10 with a ~600ish w rating is what you should be looking at. Amp should be adequate enough to provide at least 3/4 of that power...you don't need to run your sub at full capacity. Especially in that little corolla-4-500w will be MORE than loud enough. eD makes pretty decent budget subs: 

Elemental Designs

New, cheap, and comes with a 5yr warranty. Amazing customer support. No brainier.

Get an enclosure for it off ebay-you're looking for a 10" sealed enclosure with approximately 1/2ft^3 cubic capacity. Should run you $30-40.

Get a 3-400w mono channel amp to match. You can't go wrong with Alpine, Pioneer, Rockford...look for stuff used.

You'll also need some nice thick power wire to run from the battery to the amp, as well as fuses and ground cables...I'd recommend visiting Crutchfield: LCD TV, Car Stereo, Home Theater, Speakers, Plasma TV for more information.



Andii said:


> There is no place for subs when listening to metal unless you have the woofer power to balance it and is adjusted carefully. They can be used to taste, but your money would be better spent getting really good 6x9s that have a really good frequency response and a power amp.
> 
> If you do get subs a lot of things will have happen for it to sound good:
> 1. The frequency of the subs must reach to the appropriate range
> ...



Unamplified 6x9s aren't going to sound too hot, certainly not enough to take the place of a sub anyway. A well tuned setup that's not retarded (18" 2000w etc) will sound fantastic for metal. My 12" 13Ov.2 provides such good SQ that I can't even pick it out of the music. Blends in seamlessly.


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## danpluso (Nov 4, 2009)

Alright, Thanks for the help.

Like I said above I defiantly liked the sound of my brothers car system (with subwoofer) over my system so there is no doubt about it I want a sub.

There is this second hand (but never used) sub for sale locally for only $80



> High end 10" Energy sub. Never been used. Received as a gift but already have a system. retails at 229.99









It looks nice enough. Obviously no warranty if I buy used but it seems like a steal of a deal. BTW all the prices I have listed so far are Canadian funds. If it retails for $230 it must be a hell of a sub. I tried doing google searches on it but came up with very little info.

I would probably want to find an enclosure for it locally since shipping on eBay would probably be pretty steep. Probably a lot of cheaply made enclosures with crap material on eBay too.

What is going to mater more for a good metal sound? The sub or the amp? I could buy either the sub or amp used and then buy the other one new so I have more options.


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## Esp Griffyn (Nov 4, 2009)

Andii said:


> There is no place for subs when listening to metal unless you have the woofer power to balance it and is adjusted carefully. They can be used to taste, but your money would be better spent getting really good 6x9s that have a really good frequency response and a power amp.




I use a subwoofer in my bedroom sound set up for listening to music and it sounds amazing, so I don't know why you would say they have no place, I haven't done a great job of fiddling and tuning with it, but it sounds amazing.

As for in-car audio, I can't really comment since I don't often listen to music in my car, I prefer to listen to the engine. However, if the TS bought a 97 Corolla, I would suggest that he spend the money on improving it and not on sound sytems. A K&N air filter, racing exhaust (one that is just on the side of road legal though) and some new shorter springs so the suspension can be lowered and balanced would be money better spent imo.


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## m3ta1head (Nov 4, 2009)

danpluso said:


> Alright, Thanks for the help.
> 
> Like I said above I defiantly liked the sound of my brothers car system (with subwoofer) over my system so there is no doubt about it I want a sub.
> 
> ...



Those subs are the crap they sell at futureshop. Stay far away. Buy the sub I linked-it's new and around the same price. If it retails for $230, thats just a sure sign that it is sold at futureshop, where they love to rip you off for every little item. 

If you can find an enclosure locally, go for it, but know that there are plenty of reputable box builders on ebay. Shipping isn't always a problem-I got a 12" enclosure shipped to my doorstep for $45USD total. 10s are even cheaper.

Single 10" inch 3/4" Subwoofer One Enclosure Sub Box - eBay (item 220502590171 end time Nov-05-09 09:40:27 PST) (this one is in WA, maybe you can hop the border and go pick it up...not sure what his intl shipping charges are. but I'm sure they're not too bad)

SINGLE 10" SEALED 3/4" MDF SUBWOOFER SUB ENCLOSURE BOX - eBay (item 360198641098 end time Nov-14-09 10:47:42 PST)

etc...it's not too hard to tell the difference between the crap and quality enclosures.

I would buy the amp used and sub new, like I recommended-subs have a shorter lifespan. Besides, who knows how much the previous owner abused the sub...not a chance I would take. Amps, on the other hand, should last forever, so you're pretty safe buying them used.



Esp Griffyn said:


> As for in-car audio, I can't really comment since I don't often listen to music in my car, I prefer to listen to the engine. However, if the TS bought a 97 Corolla, I would suggest that he spend the money on improving it and not on sound sytems. A K&N air filter, racing exhaust (one that is just on the side of road legal though) and some new shorter springs so the suspension can be lowered and balanced would be money better spent imo.



Sorry, but these are all terrible suggestions-he drives an economy car! Why the hell would you put a "racing exhaust" on a corolla? Also, when upgrading the suspension, strut+shock should always be replaced as a unit. Lowering springs on stock struts will just fuck up the suspension geometry of the entire car!

Leave it stock, use the money to keep it in tip top shape, and enjoy the awesome gas mileage.


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## I_infect (Nov 4, 2009)

The best metal I heard from a car stereo came from a 2x10 Kicker full range angled box in a hatchback. Any subs you put in a trunk are going to be muffled a bit compared to hearing them dead on in a store or something. Kickers were always my favorite... they had such a punch-in-your-back kick drum. It almost hurt. In a trunk setup I would definitely start off with a good set of 6x9s on the deck with a decent amp, later on adding Kicker 10s or maybe even 8s for the low end snap.


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## danpluso (Nov 4, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> However, if the TS bought a 97 Corolla, I would suggest that he spend the money on improving it and not on sound sytems.



I currently live at my parents place (and will probably move into an apartment or basement suite) so the only time I can blast music is when I am driving around in my car. So I am definitely wanting to get a good audio system for my car. There is no way I am going to put money into this old car unless it absolutely needs it or I can take that stuff out when I sell the car later on. If I was the kind of person that wanted to upgrade to racing parts I wouldn't of bought a corolla.



m3ta1head said:


> Those subs are the crap they sell at futureshop. Stay far away. If it retails for $230, thats just a sure sign that it is sold at futureshop, where they love to rip you off for every little item.
> Single 10" inch 3/4" Subwoofer One Enclosure Sub Box - eBay (item 220502590171 end time Nov-05-09 09:40:27 PST)
> SINGLE 10" SEALED 3/4" MDF SUBWOOFER SUB ENCLOSURE BOX - eBay (item 360198641098 end time Nov-14-09 10:47:42 PST)



Okay thanks for the heads up. I will have to check into the elemental design subs and see how much shipping and all that would cost. Maybe they have a Canadian dealer.

Shipping isn't listed for the enclosure in WA one but for the one in California shipping is $60 so total would be $98 USD and about $105 CAN. I am going to email the guy in WA to see how much shipping will be. I would imagine it would be cheaper since it is closer. If I go with Elemental Design it may just be cheaper to get the enclosure from them too. I am assuming they would mount the sub in the enclosure then ship it to me. What does the "EFS" stand for on their cheaper enclosures?




I_infect said:


> The best metal I heard from a car stereo came from a 2x10 Kicker full range angled box in a hatchback. Kickers were always my favorite... they had such a punch-in-your-back kick drum. It almost hurt. In a trunk setup I would definitely start off with a good set of 6x9s on the deck with a decent amp, later on adding Kicker 10s or maybe even 8s for the low end snap.



Do the 6x9 speakers really need their own amp? I have them going right into my deck and I think they sound just fine that way. For the record my cd deck is a "Sony CDX-GT200". I am actually thinking about replacing it though because I really want a deck with the USB jack on it so I can play MP3s off a USB flash drive. 


EDIT: After lots of reading and such I am thinking I may just get this second hand setup for $400:


> 10 inch Type"R" Alpine Sub in Custom Made Ported Box with an Alpine MRP M500 Amp. Sub has 750 watts RMS, Amp has 500 RMS. Only 8 months old and barely brocken in..... Super Good Deal......


I emailed him to see if he would sell me the amp separate and then I can get an elemental designs sub since that 5 year warranty is really nice. However if he wont sell it separate I am thinking I should just grab them both. How much of a difference will ported vs sealed make with listening to metal? Here in Canada I can get the same amp and sub brand new for $550 and then also the cost of the enclosure. All the enclosures I have seen on eBay are going to be around $80-$100 after shipping, so about $650 for this stuff new and he is asking $400. Seems like a good deal to me considering only 8 months old. It may even come with the wiring. I will have to ask him that.


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## Esp Griffyn (Nov 5, 2009)

m3ta1head said:


> Sorry, but these are all terrible suggestions-he drives an economy car! Why the hell would you put a "racing exhaust" on a corolla? Also, when upgrading the suspension, strut+shock should always be replaced as a unit. Lowering springs on stock struts will just fuck up the suspension geometry of the entire car!
> 
> Leave it stock, use the money to keep it in tip top shape, and enjoy the awesome gas mileage.



K&N Air filter - increased mileage, increased BHP, lowered top end (not that he will ever notice)
Racing exhaust - A good one will increase BHP and sound great
lowered suspension - obviously there is more to it than simply adding new springs, its not something you try and home unless you are seriously confident. Allows you to corner much faster.

Why wouldn't you want your car to look, sound and perform better?


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## sol niger 333 (Nov 5, 2009)

10 inch sub. You don't want woolly bottom. You want tight bottom. Three way system is best to not confuse stereo field. Some nice components in the front you're away


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## meisterjager (Nov 5, 2009)

For what it's worth, my setup has always been a 1000w Monobloc amp running two 12" Sony Xplod subwoofers and it sounds awesome - perfect clarity. 10"s would give you more punch, but my 12's sound massive and I've always been really happy with them. I have an FLI amp with a remote bass controller and all sorts of EQ built into the amp itself. Took a bit of tweaking when I changed my car, but it's sounding fine now. 

I think you would be fine with 10's though. I've often thought of changing to 10's myself.. but I'm quite happy with what I have right now.

Sealed box is a must, IMO.


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## synrgy (Nov 5, 2009)

I hate to break it to you, but there is virtually no sub at all in most rock/metal recordings. If you look at any 'typical' metal track in a frequency analyzer, there's virtually nothing at all occurring below 100hz.

I mean, that's no reason to not get a great system in your car, but I do find it odd that people want to push frequencies that don't actually exist in the music they're listening to.

I have 2 compact powered subwoofers. 1 under each of my front seats:
Amazon.com: Blaupunkt THb 200A Compact powered subwoofer 70-watt amp with an 8" sub: Electronics

I like them a lot. It's sub for me, instead of sub for my whole neighborhood.


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## Tiger (Nov 5, 2009)

synrgy said:


> I hate to break it to you, but there is virtually no sub at all in most rock/metal recordings. If you look at any 'typical' metal track in a frequency analyzer, there's virtually nothing at all occurring below 100hz.



No.


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## synrgy (Nov 5, 2009)

Tiger said:


> No.



What do you mean 'no'? Have you actually tried what I described?

I use the frequency analyzer that comes with the WAVES mastering VST bundles (PAZ Analyzer). If you set it to be accurate within 10hz, you'll see what I'm talking about.


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## Tiger (Nov 5, 2009)

Read a little about how that frequency range operates(20-100hz) and you'll see its actually pretty important and gets a lot of use in most all genres. 

That or you've never, ever heard a kickdrum in your life.


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## synrgy (Nov 5, 2009)

Tiger said:


> Read a little about how that frequency range operates(20-100hz) and you'll see its actually pretty important and gets a lot of use in most all genres.
> 
> That or you've never, ever heard a kickdrum in your life.



Look, I understand what you're saying from the technical standpoint, but let's plug some context into this.

Pull up 2 tracks. One by, say... I dunno.. Metallica, Megadeth, or whoever. The other, by an electronic music artist, preferably drum n bass -- somebody like Noisia, Spor, etc.

The difference between the two when looking at that 20-100hz range is like night and day.

This is regularly reflected in my listening habits when I'm in my car. My subs scream bloody murder when I'm listening to Noisia, and they barely exist when I'm listening to Meshuggah.


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## Andii (Nov 5, 2009)

synrgy said:


> Look, I understand what you're saying from the technical standpoint, but let's plug some context into this.
> 
> Pull up 2 tracks. One by, say... I dunno.. Metallica, Megadeth, or whoever. The other, by an electronic music artist, preferably drum n bass -- somebody like Noisia, Spor, etc.
> 
> ...



Comparing one recording to another, there is a lot less in a tight metal recording, but it's definitely there. I listen to music on headphones that reproduce 20hz-20khz and most metal albums go all the way down into the sub frequencies, just very lightly and carefully. They have these frequencies carefully placed to keep the sound tight. Anything that happens really low in a kick has to be over really quick. Sound engineers work with the really low frequencies and design what is going on down there. Also sub amps have an adjustable crossover on the amp to change what frequencies they're putting out.

But despite that, I don't like subs for metal. It's basically giving more power to one specific range than the rest of the music. Good 6x9's reach down into the 40hz (some to 30) range and can give more than enough of it.

Here is a 6x9 that reaches to 30hz. 
http://www.crutchfield.com/s_130TSA943P/Pioneer-Premier-TS-A943P.html?o=p&showAll=N&tp=91


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## xXxPriestessxXx (Nov 5, 2009)

My car stereo has always pumped out great metal sounds. Currently I have one Rockford Fosgate punch 10" sub, and any other speakers or amps I have to buy for a car WILL come from them. Before I bought my new car I had two, but the new car had a factory sub already so I just had it replaced with the RF, and will probably sell the other one. I think a lot of it is how you tweek your settings to get the sound you are looking for. 

Hope you get your perfect sound.


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## danpluso (Nov 5, 2009)

Thanks for all the help guys!

That guy quickly dropped the price down to $325 from $400 when I told him I was interested in the sub but didn't want it because it was in a ported enclosure. It does seem kinda iffy that he would drop the price so fast but my plans are to wire up my car for it so I can quickly hook it up when I go to check it out. Only 8 months old and apparently still has a 1 year warranty left on it. Not sure if it transferable though .. He says he has the receipt for it all so I know it is not stolen or anything like that.

So it looks like I will be getting: 10 inch Type"R" Alpine Sub in Custom Made Ported Box with an Alpine MRP M500 Amp.


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## Labrie (Nov 5, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> K&N Air filter - increased mileage, increased BHP, lowered top end (not that he will ever notice)
> Racing exhaust - A good one will increase BHP and sound great
> lowered suspension - obviously there is more to it than simply adding new springs, its not something you try and home unless you are seriously confident. Allows you to corner much faster.
> 
> Why wouldn't you want your car to look, sound and perform better?




K&N air filter will NOT improve any of those things you've listed. It is simply an oil based filter that doesn't need changing like a regular paper filter. What I assume you mean is a K&N air intake which will at most (short ram or cold air) make your car sound louder than anything else. Remember that the HP increase that these intakes are rated at are crank HP on a dyno. That power really amounts to nothing more than a bit of throttle response once it reaches the wheels.

A racing exhaust on such a small motor will probably lead to a loss in HP as he will lose the back pressure of the stock exhaust.

That money he would put into these things would not even be close to worth it on a 97 corolla. It could be used for much more useful things.


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## danpluso (Nov 5, 2009)

Labrie said:


> That money he would put into these things would not even be close to worth it on a 97 corolla. It could be used for much more useful things.



Yes exactly my thoughts. At least with upgrading the sound system, I can always take it out when I sell the car. 

My car is purely for transportation and it does that just fine. I am currently saving up for either a street bike or a dirt bike that will be my fun toy that I can rip around on. I love bikes 


I have a question about wires!
As I said earlier I am going to wire up my car before I go to check it out so I can quickly hook it up and test it. So since i need the wires ASAP so I can wire it up ASAP I will be buying my wires from Future Shop.

What is the overall difference between these two wiring kits?
Future Shop: Car Electronics: Car Audio Accessories: Stinger 8 Gauge Amplifier Kit (SPK5681R)
Future Shop: Car Electronics: Car Audio Accessories: Stinger True-Spec Amplifier Wiring Kit (SS501X)

I know the expensive one says "100% True-Spec tinned oxygen-free copper" and the other says "50% copper / 50% CCA". But what is the overall difference going to be? Is it worth the extra $30 for the 100% copper wires?

EDIT: I did some google searches and read up on it and IMO the $30 extra does sound like it would be well spent on 100% cooper wires. $100 for just wires though!?!? Holy ****!!


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## meisterjager (Nov 6, 2009)

synrgy said:


> Look, I understand what you're saying from the technical standpoint, but let's plug some context into this.
> 
> Pull up 2 tracks. One by, say... I dunno.. Metallica, Megadeth, or whoever. The other, by an electronic music artist, preferably drum n bass -- somebody like Noisia, Spor, etc.
> 
> ...


 
You're completely, utterly and massively wrong to say that metal doesn't have any use for subwoofers. Like, actually -worthy wrong. You must be really missing out, man. Maybe I'll take some video of my woofers bouncing along to some metal, but I'm not convinced you're not trolling.

To the OP - well... I'd be hesitant dropping that much coin on cables if you're going for a budget system anyway - it's likely your sub and amp won't be able to make the most of it. I don't have 100% copper wires, and it's not like my system's unlistenable, ya kow?


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## Andii (Nov 6, 2009)

@the big gauged wire getting brought into this thread. Did you know that's a gimmick? Professional PA systems use speaker wire(the same type we hook up our guitar cabs with) and thousands of watts can go through those skinny little wires. 

It's an electric current, it isn't like a hosepipe. The people who sell those wires are laughing all the way to the bank.


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## meisterjager (Nov 6, 2009)

^ I know, right? The amp of people telling me that 8awg cable wouldn't be durable enough to ground my amp was ridiculous - eventhough I grounded the same amp with the same 8awg cable for years with zero issues.

Darn fool agents.


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## m3ta1head (Nov 6, 2009)

danpluso said:


> Yes exactly my thoughts. At least with upgrading the sound system, I can always take it out when I sell the car.
> 
> My car is purely for transportation and it does that just fine. I am currently saving up for either a street bike or a dirt bike that will be my fun toy that I can rip around on. I love bikes
> 
> ...



Why in gods name are you shopping at futureshop? Please, please just stop. Try this site:

Amp Installation Kits, HDMI Cables


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## synrgy (Nov 6, 2009)

meisterjager said:


> You're completely, utterly and massively wrong to say that metal doesn't have any use for subwoofers. Like, actually -worthy wrong. You must be really missing out, man. Maybe I'll take some video of my woofers bouncing along to some metal, but I'm not convinced you're not trolling.
> 
> To the OP - well... I'd be hesitant dropping that much coin on cables if you're going for a budget system anyway - it's likely your sub and amp won't be able to make the most of it. I don't have 100% copper wires, and it's not like my system's unlistenable, ya kow?



Fine man, you win. You keep moving the goal-posts and completely ignoring all the context and specific examples I'm pointing out, but you still win.


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## I_infect (Nov 6, 2009)

danpluso said:


> Do the 6x9 speakers really need their own amp? I have them going right into my deck and I think they sound just fine that way. For the record my cd deck is a "Sony CDX-GT200". I am actually thinking about replacing it though because I really want a deck with the USB jack on it so I can play MP3s off a USB flash drive.



well imo for metal you want punch in the low end, not boom. This means absolutely no bandpass boxes, and probably no ported boxes either, depending on the subwoofer. A good high powered set of 6x9s with a broad frequency response will hit very hard, as hard as some good 8" subs and harder than generic 10"s. Run a 100x2(even 75x2 or 50x2) amp in them and you'll be stunned. If it were my car, I would run some power to some great 3 way speakers on the rear deck, whether it be 6x9s or 6.5"s(don't know what's in your car). Take it from there exactly how much sub you want/need. Honestly my guess is a 10" maybe 2. With metal you really want a balanced system... this means hearing everything, not just the bass, so if you go and buy some big speakers just because they have alot of power handling and ignore the rest of your system, sure everyone will hear you thumping double-bass... but you won't hear your music, you will just rumble.

With speakers, there are so many factors to consider other than just wattage... freq response, sensitivity etc. Read up on some stats and see what the best build is for your car. Even with wattage you want RMS watts, not peak.

Your Sony deck looks to be rated at 52x4 watts... it's worth looking into to see exactly what it's putting out, 52 rms or peak. You could be running as little as 18-20 watts RMS. So like I said, Even a 50x2 rms amp will be alot louder if that's the case.


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## Esp Griffyn (Nov 6, 2009)

Labrie said:


> K&N air filter will NOT improve any of those things you've listed. It is simply an oil based filter that doesn't need changing like a regular paper filter. What I assume you mean is a K&N air intake which will at most (short ram or cold air) make your car sound louder than anything else. Remember that the HP increase that these intakes are rated at are crank HP on a dyno. That power really amounts to nothing more than a bit of throttle response once it reaches the wheels.
> 
> A racing exhaust on such a small motor will probably lead to a loss in HP as he will lose the back pressure of the stock exhaust.
> 
> That money he would put into these things would not even be close to worth it on a 97 corolla. It could be used for much more useful things.



Any K&N air filter is better than a stock factory filter, unless you buy something like a Koenigsegg, as every model of K&N for every kind of car is less restrictive than the factory model. Increased air intake = fuel burning more readily, therefore more BHP lower in the range at the expense of top end (not that anyone ever drives their car at its top end unless they are on a race track with a significant straight). Also, while K&N don't make an official claim as to decreased fuel consumption, it is common sense that one should decrease fuel consumption. However, if you take advantage of the increased output you will end up raising your fuel bill as you rev harder in lower gears. As K&N put it "You can't have your cake and eat it".

Also







=/= racing exhaust. Stupid large bore exhausts are just boy racer tat, and yes they will destroy performance. A proper racing exhaust will be just as restrictive, if not more so, than a stock exhaust, as that will create higher pressure within the exhaust system to aid the removal of gases.


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## lobee (Nov 6, 2009)

^Except the WRX is turbocharged, and back-pressure is the enemy(I know you were just using the pic for the exhaust, but I thought it was ironic).


Either way, not everybody wants their car to look, sound(well, maybe the stereo[/ontopic]), or perform better. Some people just like to get good gas mileage to get from point A to point B while listening to some good tunes.


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## Labrie (Nov 6, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> Any K&N air filter is better than a stock factory filter, unless you buy something like a Koenigsegg, as every model of K&N for every kind of car is less restrictive than the factory model. Increased air intake = fuel burning more readily, therefore more BHP lower in the range at the expense of top end (not that anyone ever drives their car at its top end unless they are on a race track with a significant straight). Also, while K&N don't make an official claim as to decreased fuel consumption, it is common sense that one should decrease fuel consumption. However, if you take advantage of the increased output you will end up raising your fuel bill as you rev harder in lower gears. As K&N put it "You can't have your cake and eat it".
> 
> Also
> 
> ...




A K&N drop in filter will do next to nothing to increase your HP. If it is even true that it increases your air intake, you're talking peanuts. A proper cold air intake (not the short ram) for an average car will give you maybe 8-10 HP (that's what they claim anyway). This is HP at the crank and by the time it gets to the wheels its probably half that. The filter alone does a lot less than the whole intake so in reality we're talking like 1 HP.

I see air filters on a daily basis. The only real advantage to a K&N air filter is the fact that it's oil based so it can be cleaned unlike a regular paper filter. I'm not saying they're not worth getting but if you're looking for cheap performance, there are a lot better things you can buy.


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## danpluso (Nov 7, 2009)

m3ta1head said:


> Why in gods name are you shopping at futureshop? Please, please just stop. Try this site:
> 
> Amp Installation Kits, HDMI Cables




LOL I know, I know.. I usually buy all my stuff from online retailers but I needed the cables ASAP and future shop was the only place open at that time. I just finished wiring it tonight and the guy is bringing his amp and sub over tomorrow for me to try out. Dropped the price down to $325 so I will most likely snatch it up if it works with no problems.



I_infect said:


> Your Sony deck looks to be rated at 52x4 watts... it's worth looking into to see exactly what it's putting out, 52 rms or peak. You could be running as little as 18-20 watts RMS. So like I said, Even a 50x2 rms amp will be alot louder if that's the case.



Is it worth going with a 50x2? If i was to get an amp for the speakers wouldn't it be worth it to get a 50x4 and hook it up to the front speakers as well? I checked today and my 6x9s are Jensen XS1693 which I imagine are not the greatest. They came with the car when I bought it as well as the front speakers which I am not sure what they are.

I already have the guy with the amp and sub coming over tomorrow so I will probably end up buying it, but would definitely like to get an amp for the 6x9s and possibly better 6x9s later on. Will I have to run another power cable for the 2nd amp or is there a way to tap into one power cable to power two amps? I would imagine I would need a cap or another battery if I was to run two amps. Probably save that till I have more cash to spare. I might have to get new front speakers too as the left front speaker seems to be rattling a bit.. Maybe its blown??

Thanks for all the help guys.

EDIT: I bought the alpine amp and alpine type R 10" woofer off the guy for $325. It sounds pretty good IMO. The guy said it used to be in a sealed enclosure and sounded like crap. He switched it to the ported enclosure it is in now and he said he likes it much better in the ported. He also listens to metal so I guess I will take his word for it and keep it in the ported enclosure. I have also read that Alpine type Rs are better in ported enclosures.


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