# Tips on tightening up my tone?



## theo (Jan 30, 2011)

Hey guys. I'm going through a rig overhaul right now and I just wanted some tips on getting a choppier tight tone (think bleed - meshuggah) 

I'm currently running a Peavey 6505+ with gain around 4.5 and all other settings around 6, give or take a tiny bit. That's playing through a Marshall 1960a lead.

I have a tube screamer but I found boosting didn't do a huge heap for this head, maybe because I was playing at bedroom level at the time, Not sure.

My main guitar for metal is an ibanez xpt700 xiphos tuned to drop a with 12s. I'm thinking this is where my problem might lay. It has the trem blocked and has stock dimarzio deactivators. It just doesn't feel that snappy. 

Other effects I use are an eventide timefactor for leads and cleans, a Paul Gilbert flanger and sometimes a digitech whammy. Don't worry so much about them, I'm mainly concerned with my rhythm tone, would a compressor help my situation or is it not that relevant? Any help would be much appreciated


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## theo (Jan 30, 2011)

I should probably add. Right now its not bad. I just don't have the really tight percussive attack and decay I'm after. I bought an isp pro rack g off a fellow forumite here, which I'm hoping will help quite a bit as well as cut The squeal out at higher volumes. That should be arriving in the mail this week sometime.


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## theo (Jan 31, 2011)

anyone?


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## getaway_fromme (Jan 31, 2011)

settings for tube screamer?


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## theo (Jan 31, 2011)

gain 0, volume maxed then rolled back a little, tone just over half.


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## Tranquilliser (Jan 31, 2011)

I'd reccomend one of two things :
1 - switch your string guage to 13's, either 13-70s or 13-62s should work, they'll bring up the tension, which will tighten tone remarkably.
2 - higher output pickups with more definition, like BKPs, EMGs (if you want to go down the actives road).

Either of those should help, I'd recommend a restring before deciding you still need it to be tighter.


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## theo (Jan 31, 2011)

thanks, Ill probably go the heavier strings first, then try pickups, not such an active fan. Ill check out the BKPs maybe

EDIT: I thought dimarzio deactivators were meant to be rather high output?


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## Leuchty (Jan 31, 2011)

Whats the resonance and presence set to? 6 aswell?

Also, what gauge pick do you use?


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## Tranquilliser (Jan 31, 2011)

D-Activators were kinda meant to sound like Actives but be Passives. 
They succeeded, but from what I've heard they don't quite cover lower tunings as well as say EMGs, or SD Blackouts.


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## theo (Jan 31, 2011)

CYBERSYN said:


> Whats the resonance and presence set to? 6 aswell?
> 
> Also, what gauge pick do you use?




they are tweaked a bit further out, cant remember off the top of my head though.

I like the thinnest picks I can find... haha no but seriously, jazz III


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## noob_pwn (Jan 31, 2011)

Tranquilliser said:


> D-Activators were kinda meant to sound like Actives but be Passives.
> They succeeded, but from what I've heard they don't quite cover lower tunings as well as say EMGs, or SD Blackouts.



hearsay is not always the best thing to go by 
I found blackouts weren't the best thing for low tunings myself


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## theo (Jan 31, 2011)

personally, im rather curious about a crunchlab in the bridge, do many people use those for low tunings? I dont wanna go active, so its either CL and LF combo of BKPs for me probably


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## Guamskyy (Jan 31, 2011)

theo said:


> personally, im rather curious about a crunchlab in the bridge, do many people use those for low tunings? I dont wanna go active, so its either CL and LF combo of BKPs for me probably


 
I have a CL/LF in my C-7. It's very tight, articulate, pinch harmonics come out easily, and IMO aggressive sounding if you pick hard. I usually have my guitar tuned drop A, B standard, or drop G# with a 60 on for the low A,B, or G#, and then 9-42 for the other 6 strings.

For a tight tone, I suggest using both of your hands to choke the strings after palm mutes. Don't choke the strings over frets that are known for natural harmonics, such as 12,9,7,5,4,3, and probably more if you try. And with your picking hand, don't put your palm on the bridge, but more closer to the bridge pickup so the strings get muted quickly, and making them "tight."

IMO I think a tight tone is more of a technique then having certain types of gear, but the gear does help too


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## theo (Jan 31, 2011)

guambomb832 said:


> I have a CL/LF in my C-7. It's very tight, articulate, pinch harmonics come out easily, and IMO aggressive sounding if you pick hard. I usually have my guitar tuned drop A, B standard, or drop G# with a 60 on for the low A,B, or G#, and then 9-42 for the other 6 strings.
> 
> For a tight tone, I suggest using both of your hands to choke the strings after palm mutes. Don't choke the strings over frets that are known for natural harmonics, such as 12,9,7,5,4,3, and probably more if you try. And with your picking hand, don't put your palm on the bridge, but more closer to the bridge pickup so the strings get muted quickly, and making them "tight."
> 
> IMO I think a tight tone is more of a technique then having certain types of gear, but the gear does help too


cheers man, thats quite encouraging actually, yeah I use both my hands to choke notes, but for faster staccato rhythm work my xiphos just doesnt quite get there, it feels sloppy right now, Ill try the thicker strings whilst I get some cash together for the CL/LF

has anyone tried thick core strings? Buy Dunlop Nickel Plated Steel Heavy Core Electric Guitar Strings Heavier 6 Pack | .011 Gauge | Musician's Friend


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## geofreesun (Jan 31, 2011)

1. if you always play at bedroom level, get an attenuator for the 6505. otherwise with the volume below 1.5 (or even 2 to 3) you can't get much out of this unit at all...
2. if you are doing so already, try put an eq in the loop


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## theo (Jan 31, 2011)

geofreesun said:


> 1. if you always play at bedroom level, get an attenuator for the 6505. otherwise with the volume below 1.5 (or even 2 to 3) you can't get much out of this unit at all...
> 2. if you are doing so already, try put an eq in the loop


Ive been thinking of grabbing an MXR 10band EQ actually, as for the attenuator, its not really worth it for me, I play loud more than I play quietly


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## geofreesun (Jan 31, 2011)

theo said:


> Ive been thinking of grabbing an MXR 10band EQ actually, as for the attenuator, its not really worth it for me, I play loud more than I play quietly


great~ ya i have the kerry king 10 band, same as the standard actually. they work great. in fact i was just playing around with the eq 10 minutes ago somehow i feel there is some subtle loss of tone when the eq kicks in, well, it does more good than bad so it's really worth it. im also thinking about a 15 band or 31 band, not sure how much diff it's gonna make


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## theo (Jan 31, 2011)

geofreesun said:


> great~ ya i have the kerry king 10 band, same as the standard actually. they work great. in fact i was just playing around with the eq 10 minutes ago somehow i feel there is some subtle loss of tone when the eq kicks in, well, it does more good than bad so it's really worth it. im also thinking about a 15 band or 31 band, not sure how much diff it's gonna make



Ive been told to steer clear of EQs with that many freq's as most of them aren't very useful for guitar tones, not sure how accurate that info is though, I dont have heaps of experience with EQs


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## rippedflesh89 (Jan 31, 2011)

theo said:


> Ive been told to steer clear of EQs with that many freq's as most of them aren't very useful for guitar tones, not sure how accurate that info is though, I dont have heaps of experience with EQs


 
nah.. 32 band would still be very useful... you do have a slighly larger range on a 32 band, but but not by very much.... you more so have a lot more frequencies in between other frequencies which in the end will just allow you to have greater precision when tweaking....

so no, more bands is never pointless


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## theo (Feb 1, 2011)

Oh ok, I was lead to believe they just offered a much broader range.


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## Soubi7string (Feb 1, 2011)

one word for those tight ass chugs

Periphery

mimic their set up and you have what you want I'm pretty sure lol


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## lookralphsbak (Feb 1, 2011)

theo said:


> Ive been thinking of grabbing an MXR 10band EQ actually, as for the attenuator, its not really worth it for me, I play loud more than I play quietly


I tried the Boss EQ pedal at GC and holy shit does it change the tone! I wanna get an EQ pedal, just not a boss haha...

Also my Boss CS-3 isn't really working the way I want it to. I've figured out how to get sweet clean tone out of it and cut dynamics so I don't have the ear piercing highs but I haven't figured out how to apply the compression to distortion, although I guess I don't need it because there aren't many spikes for distorted guitars, especially when it's plugged into a high gain amp.


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## Sepultorture (Feb 1, 2011)

yes indeed that is true, if you got a 31 band EQ it does indeed give you more control with more freqs to work with, but there are bass and treble freqs that won't effects your amps tone as your guitar and amp cannot even produce those frequencies


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## Taylor2 (Feb 1, 2011)

The process for getting a tone as tight and chunky as Meshuggah requires three things.

A) Tube Screamer.
B) Rolled off lows.
C) Most importantly, proper pick technique.


Meshuggah's tone is actually quite thin, and what you hear as far as any chunk goes is the bass guitar.

What you do, is take the EQ, doesn't have to be 31 band, but either way, take the EQ, and roll off everything below 150hz.

But all of this is moot if you don't know how to pick like they do.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Feb 1, 2011)

My setup is very similar to yours: Xiphos w/D-Activators > OD Boost (in my case Vox Ice 9) > Peavey XXX, and if there's anything to add, Taylor said the fundamentals. 

Picking technique. That's a given. Everything about the aspect has been mentioned. 

Your OD Boost actually compresses your tone and rolls off some of your lows. If anything, tuning as low as A, you may need to reduce the lows a bit more, and add more mids. 

And of course your Noise Gate has to be set on the tightest possible setting.


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## theo (Feb 1, 2011)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> My setup is very similar to yours: Xiphos w/D-Activators > OD Boost (in my case Vox Ice 9) > Peavey XXX, and if there's anything to add, Taylor said the fundamentals.
> 
> Picking technique. That's a given. Everything about the aspect has been mentioned.
> 
> ...



Dude you're from 4arm yeah? 
Got my isp yesterday, suddenly everything is perfect. Tight and brutal, lots of note clarity, It's all I needed. I still might get an eq though.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Feb 1, 2011)

theo said:


> Dude you're from 4arm yeah?
> Got my isp yesterday, suddenly everything is perfect. Tight and brutal, lots of note clarity, It's all I needed. I still might get an eq though.


 
Yes. 

Also, looking at your OP, I didn't realise you didn't have a noise gate during that time. Yeah, a noise gate will work wonders and is absolutely mandatory for tight metal rhythm playing. I'm even contemplating on getting an ISP G-String for a second gate.  Cool to know that it works well with you mate! 

As for EQs, I don't have any experience with them (I'll be honest and dare say that I'm not a fan of having one), but they can help in shaping the tone you need.


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## theo (Feb 1, 2011)

Yeah I just got the ISP pro rack G stereo, really awesome, only issue is that now you can easily hear the 50hz hum in my amp haha Furman power conditioner time T_T always something new.

Im pretty happy with my tone, but at the same time, I really like tweaking and the ability to be really flexible with my amp.


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## newamerikangospel (Feb 1, 2011)

Just to throw in some comments

The OD wont do much for an amp that already has alot of compression (a 6505 with gain at 4.5 for example). I would recommend the gain at 2.5-3, then try kicking on the OD pedal. 

I would suggest setting the tone at 75%, then rolling back down until you get the sound you want. The biggest thing, as mentioned, is that some of the tones you want, are very mid heavy, and you are hearing thickness from the bass. A rule of thumb for my eq settings is, bass where I can hear it, but not where I can feel it (standing in front of my rig with the cab at chest level and at practice voume levels, I only get the a little thump from the cab reacting to the mids, but the cab itself is not pulsing).


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## msalazar (Feb 3, 2011)

I put CL/LF in my Ibby 7, tuned to G#. Very percussive and snappy when you choke the palm mutes, but still thick and heavy when you loosen up on em. I really like this combo.


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## theo (Feb 3, 2011)

msalazar said:


> I put CL/LF in my Ibby 7, tuned to G#. Very percussive and snappy when you choke the palm mutes, but still thick and heavy when you loosen up on em. I really like this combo.



brilliant, thats exactly what I want.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Feb 10, 2011)

If you want more "Cut" try a BBE sonic maximizer. That will give you a lot more "Cut". Some people have a problem with 'em, but they can be good for certain heavy rythmn things.

Also, Celestion vintage 30's in your cab will probably go further to help the tone than pickups as everyone likes Deactivators.


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## James Blood (Feb 10, 2011)

Hm, maybe I am one of those having a problem with BBE sonic maximizers, but I would recommend giving it to the other guitarist in your band to help your sound cut through. ;-)


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## krypter (Feb 10, 2011)

REally? I couldn't go without my BBE Sonic Max. I love that thing. It squeezes my tone juuuuuust enough to have a sweet spot that gives it some real chunk.

Of course, we tune to Eb so....y'know....that could have something to do with it as well.


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## theo (Feb 10, 2011)

personally I'm not a sonic max. fan. I feel like they just scoop all the mids and make the highs somewhat unbearable. The gate helped immeasurably, then either BKPs or a CL/LF combo in my axed and I think im set to go.


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## Double A (Feb 10, 2011)

I was reading this thread and the OP did not mention a gate. I was going to suggest getting one but I am way late to that game. I own the same amp and once I bought an ISP Decimator G String it brought everything just where I wanted it. I also highly suggest running an EQ in the loop. I have been running an old Boss 7 band eq for years and years now and would not run without it. The only thing left for me to get now is a Keeley 4 Knob compressor to smooth everything out and a better Tubescreamer.

Glad the noise suppressor sorted things out mostly.


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## theo (Feb 10, 2011)

Double A said:


> I was reading this thread and the OP did not mention a gate. I was going to suggest getting one but I am way late too that game. I own the same amp and once I bought an ISP Decimator G String it brought everything just where I wanted it. I also highly suggest running an EQ in the loop. I have been running an old Boss 7 band eq for years and years now and would not run without it. The only thing left for me to get now is a Keeley 4 Knob compressor to smooth everything out and a better Tubescreamer.
> 
> Glad the noise suppressor sorted things out mostly.



Is there much point in compressing the signal? since thats what a tubescreamer essentially does. Im looking at an mxr 10 band for my loop next


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## krypter (Feb 11, 2011)

theo said:


> Is there much point in compressing the signal? since thats what a tubescreamer essentially does. Im looking at an mxr 10 band for my loop next




I can tell you with 100% certainty that the MXR 10 band is an excellent purchase. 

Its probably the most versatile piece of pedal goodness i've ever bought. You can make damn near any tone you could ever want.


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## Gemmeadia (Feb 11, 2011)

I had the same amp setup but an EMG 81. Definitely need a noise suppressor to make it choppy (Boss NS2) 1st knob 100%, 2nd knob 0~5%. My settings were:
Gain - 8~8.5, 
Bass - 6~7, 
Mids - 4~5, 
Treble - 5, 
Pres. - 7~8, 
Res. - 6~7. 
I got a really thick, heavy tone that was good for playing most bands in a lot of different tunings. Try it out if you want!


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## petereanima (Feb 11, 2011)

Did you roll the gian on the amp back a bit when you turned on the Tubescreamer? Otherwise it wont sound good. Set your gain (without Tuescreamer) on kinda "medium" gain...or better: somewhere "between" crunch and medium gain. To the point where you think "its not enough gain for my playing" - then turn the Tubescreamer on, with your latest settings, which were perfect already imho.


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## Double A (Feb 11, 2011)

theo said:


> Is there much point in compressing the signal? since thats what a tubescreamer essentially does. Im looking at an mxr 10 band for my loop next


Well, I have my Decimator choking everything damned hard and I get a little cut off that I do not want while tapping and when I switch to my clean channel. I am hoping the 4 knob will improve my sustain and even out the attack on everything I play to fix this.


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