# Getting rid of that last bit of fat...



## Forrest_H (Jul 31, 2013)

Hey guys!

So, I'm very set on having some form of abs (don't care if it's a fully defined 6 pack), and I had a few questions regarding that. Before I ask them, I'll describe my situation. I'm about 6'2, 17 years old, more on the slim side but have a slight bit of muscle, and weigh near 150 pounds. I've done enough ab exercises to feel abs, but you can't really see them all that well. 
What I want to know is;
1.) What should I be eating?

2.) What HIIT exercise is the absolute best?

3.) How often should I be training?

4.) Is it true that it's easier to gain muscle while consistently doing HIIT?

Thanks for looking guys!

EDIT: Here's how skinny I am for reference.


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## troyguitar (Jul 31, 2013)

inb4omgtooskinny


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## Forrest_H (Jul 31, 2013)

troyguitar said:


> inb4omgtooskinny



I'm expecting this. 

I'm obviously not morbidly obese, but there is the TINIEST (and most frustating) layer of fat that hides my ab muscles. Again, I can feel them, but they aren't really clearly in sight.


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## Infamous Impact (Jul 31, 2013)

Just one side shot with poor quality isn't enough to tell us where you are.


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## Murmel (Jul 31, 2013)

I'm exactly as tall as you are, and I've been at your weight before, currently sitting at around 73kg.

Be aware that you're going to be _extremely_ thin if you cut a bit of fat at that weight/height. I mean, let's say 65kg at 6'2"/188cm. Been there done that.
Not saying you can't do it, it's all up to you and if you feel happy doing it, then please go ahead.


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## EcoliUVA (Jul 31, 2013)

From personal experience as a tall skinny guy, make gains first. If you don't build the muscle, you won't see anything (or you'll see a lot of bone, haha). After putting on some "good" weight, all of your muscle structure will be more visible.

Oatmeal is your friend - but not the packaged sugar-bomb crap. Get it in bulk (1-minute thin cut), and you can add your own brown sugar if you like. Even if you think you're adding too much, it'll still be less than those packets.

Also, chicken. Eat both of these in massive quantities with as many vegetables as you can manage, and lift (don't overdo it though). You should feel full almost constantly. Do the calorie math to get a rough idea and stick to an eating plan. 6 smaller meals per day. Once you put on 20-30 pounds of good mass, then cut the fat. You'll look and feel better than trying to do it as slim as you are currently, and you'll notice the abs along the way as you bulk them up.


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## Murmel (Jul 31, 2013)

^
However, putting on 20-30lbs of good mass IS going to take a while  I'm currently in the process of trying to do so.


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## Forrest_H (Jul 31, 2013)

Infamous Impact said:


> Just one side shot with poor quality isn't enough to tell us where you are.



Ahh, I'm sorry. I knew I should have provided more images. What else would you need to see?



EcoliUVA said:


> From personal experience as a tall skinny guy, make gains first. If you don't build the muscle, you won't see anything (or you'll see a lot of bone, haha). After putting on some "good" weight, all of your muscle structure will be more visible.
> 
> Oatmeal is your friend - but not the packaged sugar-bomb crap. Get it in bulk (1-minute thin cut), and you can add your own brown sugar if you like. Even if you think you're adding too much, it'll still be less than those packets.
> 
> Also, chicken. Eat both of these in massive quantities with as many vegetables as you can manage, and lift (don't overdo it though). You should feel full almost constantly. Do the calorie math to get a rough idea and stick to an eating plan. 6 smaller meals per day. Once you put on 20-30 pounds of good mass, then cut the fat. You'll look and feel better than trying to do it as slim as you are currently, and you'll notice the abs along the way as you bulk them up.



So I need to gain weight then? This makes more sense than what I had originally thought. 

As an example day, should I eat:

Egg - oatmeal - chicken - oatmeal - chicken (again) oatmeal ?
or is this completely going over my head  

Thanks so much for the replies so far guys. 

Also, what brand of oatmeal would you say is the least crappy in terms of health?


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## EcoliUVA (Jul 31, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> As an example day, should I eat:
> 
> Egg - oatmeal - chicken - oatmeal - chicken (again) oatmeal ?
> or is this completely going over my head
> ...



It really depends on what your day is like. Scheduling in meals can be tricky. I would cook up a bunch of chicken breasts over the weekend and reheat them throughout the week - this will save you a lot of time. Depending on your calorie needs, I would aim for ~500 calories per meal to start with. Doesn't have to be strict, but that's a rough guideline.

Meals can be a bowl of oatmeal + eggs, chicken + fruit + vegetables, An apple and a handful of nuts (almonds are great), or a normal dinner. The important thing is that you're eating _enough_ (calories in > calories out) and eating _good_ food (when possible). As Murmel said, it can take some time. I'm 6'4", and it took me somewhere around 9 months to go from 180 to 200. Bodybuilders will probably laugh at that, but that's AFTER putting on 20 pounds from my previous "skinny" weight, haha.

Lifting properly is also important. I'd recommend some serious google searching. There's a ton of information out there, but the general conclusion is that you need to be doing 4-6 slow, steady reps to exhaustion, and focus on certain muscle groups on certain days (i.e. not all of them, all of the time). Bigtime simplification, but I'm about to bounce out of work. I'm sure others more knowledgeable will chime in, but definitely do some heavy research.


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## Infamous Impact (Jul 31, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> Ahh, I'm sorry. I knew I should have provided more images. What else would you need to see?


Front and side shot topless would be a much better reference point. No homo.


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## Forrest_H (Jul 31, 2013)

EcoliUVA said:


> It really depends on what your day is like. Scheduling in meals can be tricky. I would cook up a bunch of chicken breasts over the weekend and reheat them throughout the week - this will save you a lot of time. Depending on your calorie needs, I would aim for ~500 calories per meal to start with. Doesn't have to be strict, but that's a rough guideline.
> 
> Meals can be a bowl of oatmeal + eggs, chicken + fruit + vegetables, An apple and a handful of nuts (almonds are great), or a normal dinner. The important thing is that you're eating _enough_ (calories in > calories out) and eating _good_ food (when possible). As Murmel said, it can take some time. I'm 6'4", and it took me somewhere around 9 months to go from 180 to 200. Bodybuilders will probably laugh at that, but that's AFTER putting on 20 pounds from my previous "skinny" weight, haha.
> 
> Lifting properly is also important. I'd recommend some serious google searching. There's a ton of information out there, but the general conclusion is that you need to be doing 4-6 slow, steady reps to exhaustion, and focus on certain muscle groups on certain days (i.e. not all of them, all of the time). Bigtime simplification, but I'm about to bounce out of work. I'm sure others more knowledgeable will chime in, but definitely do some heavy research.



Okay, I'll cook up some chicken this weekend then and reheat it. I've been trying to stay along the lines of 4 reps to exhaustion like you said, and not over-exercising every muscle possible on one day. 



Infamous Impact said:


> Front and side shot topless would be a much better reference point. No homo.



I can do that. Insecurity here I come


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## Murmel (Jul 31, 2013)

It's alright man, nobody was born a muscle freak. The worst part about it is that to yourself in the mirror you might look pretty good, then you take a picture and not a single muscle is showing


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## Infamous Impact (Jul 31, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> I can do that. Insecurity here I come


Use it as motivation.


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## TRENCHLORD (Jul 31, 2013)

It's more about diet than anything else (says as he dips his donut stix in his coffee lol).

Hanging leg-raises are a great ab stretcher and builder, but to start out try this;

Remove the bar from a typical decline bench, and then lay down backwards on it so that your head is at the foot-end your feet are hanging off the head-end almost touching the floor.

Then just find something to grab onto with your hands (you can loop a rolled towel around the part of the bench that usually braces the legs and then just grab onto the towel/or rope) and then basically bring your straight-legs up until the hips barely lift off the bench.

When you lower the legs back down you can either let them almost touch the floor again, or you can just work the upper-range by not letting them down as far between reps.

Experiment with the bench's angle if it's an adjustable decline. Some gyms have situp boards which work in some cases, but the decline benches are usually set up higher so you'll have more room for the legs to go down all the way when you want.


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## Forrest_H (Aug 1, 2013)

Murmel said:


> It's alright man, nobody was born a muscle freak. The worst part about it is that to yourself in the mirror you might look pretty good, then you take a picture and not a single muscle is showing



This entirely, I hate this. 



Infamous Impact said:


> Use it as motivation.



For sure, I'll have some pics up tonight.



TRENCHLORD said:


> It's more about diet than anything else (says as he dips his donut stix in his coffee lol).
> 
> Hanging leg-raises are a great ab stretcher and builder, but to start out try this;
> 
> ...



Okay, I'll have to try this one. I've been doing planks (my max length is about 1:50) and leg lifts (about 30). Does anyone else have any ab exercises? Should crunches be overlooked completely?


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 1, 2013)

What little bit of fat? I could bench press 3 of you...


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## Forrest_H (Aug 1, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> What little bit of fat? I could bench press 3 of you...



There's this annoying, 1 inch layer of fat sitting over my ab muscles. And I wouldn't doubt it, I'm quite light for my height (that all rhymed, HEYO)


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## Murmel (Aug 1, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> Okay, I'll have to try this one. I've been doing planks (my max length is about 1:50) and leg lifts (about 30). Does anyone else have any ab exercises? Should crunches be overlooked completely?



As Trench said, hanging leg raises. Definitely my favourite abs exercise.
You don't really have to add weight either, most people won't be able to do it with their legs straight anyway.
How straight you can keep your legs throughout the motion is a good indicator on progress. I started off barely being able to do it, now I can keep them fairly straight.


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## Infamous Impact (Aug 1, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> There's this annoying, 1 inch layer of fat sitting over my ab muscles. And I wouldn't doubt it, I'm quite light for my height (that all rhymed, HEYO)


An inch is a good bit of fat.


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## Forrest_H (Aug 1, 2013)

Murmel said:


> As Trench said, hanging leg raises. Definitely my favourite abs exercise.
> You don't really have to add weight either, most people won't be able to do it with their legs straight anyway.
> How straight you can keep your legs throughout the motion is a good indicator on progress. I started off barely being able to do it, now I can keep them fairly straight.



I'll keep this one in mind, this sounds like a killer workout.



Infamous Impact said:


> An inch is a good bit of fat.



Good as in it should be there? Or good as in sizable?


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## Infamous Impact (Aug 1, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> Good as in it should be there? Or good as in sizable?


A sizeable amount. Yet again, I'm making guesses in the dark for now.


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 1, 2013)

It's the first place it gets added on and the last place it comes off. If you're not working out regularly, you're not going to have much abs to show anyway. 

Even then it's irrelevant if you don't know how to eat. Diet is everything. Only now that I have my diet figured out and spot on with no mistakes am I getting into single-digit bodyfat numbers. Doesn't matter how much ab work you do if you're not eating right. Diet is everything.

Articles everywhere on bodybuilding.com and T-nation about how to eat. Gotta do some research on your own.


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## Forrest_H (Aug 1, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> It's the first place it gets added on and the last place it comes off. If you're not working out regularly, you're not going to have much abs to show anyway.
> 
> Even then it's irrelevant if you don't know how to eat. Diet is everything. Only now that I have my diet figured out and spot on with no mistakes am I getting into single-digit bodyfat numbers. Doesn't matter how much ab work you do if you're not eating right. Diet is everything.
> 
> Articles everywhere on bodybuilding.com and T-nation about how to eat. Gotta do some research on your own.



I did a bit of research prior which resulted in me finding out you had to have something like 6% body fat to have visible abs, where I have around 14%. I work out weekly, probably not enough, but enough to where there is some muscle, albeit not exactly "The Rock" territory. I'll continue my research, but I was hoping to get an answer specific more to me. Thanks for stressing the importance of diet to me though


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## asfeir (Aug 1, 2013)

I've been doing HIIT for a couple of months now on the treadmill, lost 7 kgs.
what I do:
4 min walking, then 4 consecutive "intervals" of 1 min sprint and 2 min jogging. then I cooldown for 2-4 min.
Super effective!


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## Forrest_H (Aug 1, 2013)

asfeir said:


> I've been doing HIIT for a couple of months now on the treadmill, lost 7 kgs.
> what I do:
> 4 min walking, then 4 consecutive "intervals" of 1 min sprint and 2 min jogging. then I cooldown for 2-4 min.
> Super effective!



I'll try this, too. Thanks for the reply!


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> I did a bit of research prior which resulted in me finding out you had to have something like 6% body fat to have visible abs, where I have around 14%. I work out weekly, probably not enough, but enough to where there is some muscle, albeit not exactly "The Rock" territory. I'll continue my research, but I was hoping to get an answer specific more to me. Thanks for stressing the importance of diet to me though




6% bodyfat is closing in on professional Bodybuilding status. Physique competitors usually have around 6-7%. You do not need 6% fat to have visible abs. You can start to have visible abs around 14%. This picture does an OK job of showing various fat level %s:


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## Forrest_H (Aug 1, 2013)

Based off of this I clearly need to start doing a much harder ab workout, thanks man!


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## Uncreative123 (Aug 1, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> Based off of this I clearly need to start doing a much harder ab workout, thanks man!




Possibly, but I think it's more that you just need to eat better:

Bodybuilding.com - 10 Rules For Ripped Abs!


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## troyguitar (Aug 1, 2013)

FWIW I was down to about 11-12% and starting to finally have some decent definition all over including abs last year with a terrible diet but running 5 miles a day and eating 2000 calories or less every day of any food I wanted. Then I entered a damn race and hurt myself and never started back up again


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## Forrest_H (Aug 2, 2013)

WARNING: PROBABLY NOT WORK SAFE IF YOU DONT WANT TO GET FIRED FOR IMAGES OF A SHIRTLESS 17 YEAR OLD ON SCREEN



















































Farmers tan lol












heres where i am at. thoughts?


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## Murmel (Aug 2, 2013)

Sorry to say, but there's barely any muscle to show getting rid of the fat.
You should definitely go on a small bulk and get some workouts in. If you do it properly, even in 6 months there's gonna be a huge difference.
I personally don't see any point in trying to get 'dem abs' right now if it's just because you want to have abs sometime in your life.

From my understanding you're not interested in getting to bodybuilder status, but 2-3 workouts a week with the big lifts will get you pretty far. And who knows, perhaps you'll really dig it and in 5 years you're a monster 

Look into some beginners program that focuses on the heavy lifts. Deadlifts, squat, bench press, military press etc. In the beginning you'll sky-rocket in strength and it's usually a big motivator to stick to it.
We've got some seasoned lifters on the forum as well, I bet you could get good workout advice from them.


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## Forrest_H (Aug 2, 2013)

Murmel said:


> Sorry to say, but there's barely any muscle to show getting rid of the fat.
> You should definitely go on a small bulk and get some workouts in. If you do it properly, even in 6 months there's gonna be a huge difference.
> I personally don't see any point in trying to get 'dem abs' right now if it's just because you want to have abs sometime in your life.
> 
> ...



Ahh, darn. Okay, I'll work on bulking up a bit then. And you're correct, I don't really want body-builder abs, just some that are a bit defined. I'll look into heavy lifts as well. Thanks man!


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## Infamous Impact (Aug 2, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> WARNING: PROBABLY NOT WORK SAFE IF YOU DONT WANT TO GET FIRED FOR IMAGES OF A SHIRTLESS 17 YEAR OLD ON SCREEN
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Get on a clean bulk right now.


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## Forrest_H (Aug 2, 2013)

Infamous Impact said:


> Get on a clean bulk right now.



Can do! Thanks for the replies guys


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## Kaickul (Aug 7, 2013)

Limit your carb intake and do some cardio as well. Also try to eat 6 small meals a day. I know there are a lot of these meal plans you could find. But I agree with the other guys, you need a bulk and then a cut, it will take some time but you will be very pleased with the results if you work hard on it.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Aug 7, 2013)

Clean bulk for sure man, I went from skinnyfat to clean bulk and it was awesome, I was riiiight down to that last tiny bit of fat, my abs were already pretty visible, just not quite ripped. Then I ruined it over the last year by accidentally lol dirty bulking from 145lbs to 178 (height of 5'6, mind)-I got more attention in clothes for my size but undressed, the mirror was less flattering


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## Solodini (Aug 9, 2013)

Beans are good, too. How many different varieties of beans are there, how many different preparations? They can add extra protein to meals and make them seem more varied. Many people seem to just go plain chicken breast, ignore herbs, spices, flavours, sides and completely lose enjoyment from eating.

Also, try some jiu jitsu. Self defence and really fun use of your muscles. Have someone 30lbs heavier and way more experienced roll with you: they'll be right on top of you so you'll really have to work to counter them. You'll be feeling that in your abs!

Finally, posture, sir! Stand up proud. Even as a bean pole you'll look better if you hold yourself up better.


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## Bevo (Aug 12, 2013)

FYI I am a cardio guy running and biking a huge amount each week and also have the inch of fat around my belly.
My problem is I don't eat enough and my body is constantly in starvation mode which holds onto every little bit of fat.

Over the last few weeks I have double my total calories and protien intake and its paying off with strength and energy not to mention I lost some fat.
On a typical ride I would burn 1500 calories and eat around 2500 over the day with maybe 70 grams of protein.
Now what I do is aim for 4000 and 150 grams protein which for me is retarded and really hard work but paying off. On that same ride day I would increase my calories by at least have the amount I burned.

So long story short, cutting calories is not the answer, a weight routine with the correct amount of daily calories and protein is the answer.


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## Forrest_H (Aug 12, 2013)

Liquid Rage said:


> Limit your carb intake and do some cardio as well. Also try to eat 6 small meals a day. I know there are a lot of these meal plans you could find. But I agree with the other guys, you need a bulk and then a cut, it will take some time but you will be very pleased with the results if you work hard on it.



Can do, thanks man!



Captain Shoggoth said:


> Clean bulk for sure man, I went from skinnyfat to clean bulk and it was awesome, I was riiiight down to that last tiny bit of fat, my abs were already pretty visible, just not quite ripped. Then I ruined it over the last year by accidentally lol dirty bulking from 145lbs to 178 (height of 5'6, mind)-I got more attention in clothes for my size but undressed, the mirror was less flattering



This gives me some hope, but I'll avoid dirty bulking 



Solodini said:


> Beans are good, too. How many different varieties of beans are there, how many different preparations? They can add extra protein to meals and make them seem more varied. Many people seem to just go plain chicken breast, ignore herbs, spices, flavours, sides and completely lose enjoyment from eating.
> 
> Also, try some jiu jitsu. Self defence and really fun use of your muscles. Have someone 30lbs heavier and way more experienced roll with you: they'll be right on top of you so you'll really have to work to counter them. You'll be feeling that in your abs!
> 
> Finally, posture, sir! Stand up proud. Even as a bean pole you'll look better if you hold yourself up better.



Thanks so much man. I'll work on getting better posture as well 



Bevo said:


> FYI I am a cardio guy running and biking a huge amount each week and also have the inch of fat around my belly.
> My problem is I don't eat enough and my body is constantly in starvation mode which holds onto every little bit of fat.
> 
> Over the last few weeks I have double my total calories and protien intake and its paying off with strength and energy not to mention I lost some fat.
> ...



Weights it is! Thanks so much for all the replies guys


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## Infamous Impact (Aug 12, 2013)

This should come in handy for guys like Bevo who need to eat more.
Precision Nutrition » Free Gourmet Nutrition Desserts e-book
Great macros and delicious.


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## Bevo (Aug 12, 2013)

I checked out that site and also signed up for the 5 day course.. Thanks!


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## Solodini (Aug 13, 2013)

CalorieKing - Diet and weight loss. Calorie Counter and more This may come in handy, as well.


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## Rosal76 (Aug 13, 2013)

Forrest_H said:


> heres where i am at. thoughts?



I see your ab muscles but they are very faint. They are the black lines that form a "V". You don't have to lose any more fat. Your abs muscles just need to grow more. The next time you take a picture for progress, take it (picture) before you eat a meat and try to suck in your stomach. If you can, try not to drink too much (of anything) either. This should make your abs muscles appear a little more better. You may also want to change your posture. Remember, your abs muscles can be flexed.

I lift weights/exercise and getting a six-pack took some time. Stick to a good exercise routine and diet and it will come.


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## Murmel (Aug 13, 2013)

Infamous Impact said:


> This should come in handy for guys like Bevo who need to eat more.
> Precision Nutrition » Free Gourmet Nutrition Desserts e-book
> Great macros and delicious.


Hmm.

Theoretically, could you live on pretty much this and extra vitamins/minerals/etc?

I think I might've found my solution the coming year instead of bringing 6 boxes of food to school every day if so is the case


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## Chuck (Aug 14, 2013)

Damn son you gotta be skinny! I'm sitting at 5'11'', 165lbs. All I can say from 3 years of lifting is that what you put in is what you get out. It won't necessarily be easy(at all) but as long as you are dedicated and eat right you should be fine!


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