# 13-string bass (the right way)



## DaddleCecapitation

Hey, I typed in 13 string bass into google to try and find that bass that the british twat built and I stumbled upon these on photobucket...

















Didn't get his name unfortunately.

Do you really think he'll pull it off?


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## Breakdown

that neck looks MASSIVE. how do people play these 11 string monster basses and guitars
lol
heres a 15 string one


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## Ruins

why twat? 
offcourse he will pull it out. you don't start your first build something like 13 strings bass and no doubt he knows what he is doing you can see it right from the design.

here is another similar 12 bass thread Apophis posted some time ago.
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ba...eginning-to-the-end-56k-beware-50-photos.html


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## troyguitar

<Nigel Tufnel voice>

It can't be played.

</Nigel Tufnel voice>


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## hufschmid

This looks more like a 'stick' type instrument for tapping.....


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## distressed_romeo

That looks like one of Jean Baudin's basses, not that plywood monstrosity the guy on Youtube was building.


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## vampiregenocide

British twat? I sense an underlying hatred for us limeys there lol

I think its great when people build ridiculous instruments. Sure, they can be kinda silly in some respects, and I would never even consider gettinbg something liek that, but its interesting to see.

And that 12 string bass is sex and proves my point.


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## troyguitar

I wonder if the string spacing is intentionally uneven on the 15-string?


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## MikeH

The biggest bass I've ever played was this kid Andrew's, which was a 7 string Conklin Groove Tool Custom.





It's a beast.


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## Variant

Ibz_rg said:


> The biggest bass I've ever played was this kid Andrew's, which was a 7 string Conklin Groove Tool Custom. It's a beast.



Bah, one of these lil' things:


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## Koshchei

distressed_romeo said:


> That looks like one of Jean Baudin's basses, not that plywood monstrosity the guy on Youtube was building.



<3 Jean Baudin


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## DaddleCecapitation

vampiregenocide said:


> British twat? I sense an underlying hatred for us limeys there lol
> 
> I think its great when people build ridiculous instruments. Sure, they can be kinda silly in some respects, and I would never even consider gettinbg something liek that, but its interesting to see.
> 
> And that 12 string bass is sex and proves my point.


 
I meant the british twat on youtube who built that 13 string, 28" scale plywood piece of crap.

I just happened to stumble upon these by accident.


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## phaeded0ut

While not exactly a bass: JCB-34 this was something that I had tried out (still own one, but don't actively play it). Another similar 14-string instrument is Mark Warr's Phalanx series of Warr Guitar Warr Guitars: Warr Guitars, Inc. and a 10-string Chapman Stick. Found that the tapping thing wasn't really for me in the end.

I'll be looking to get a 12-string bass (dual-string course 6-stringer) in the fairly near future, myself. As I posted in a previous thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/bass-guitar-discussion/75365-12-string-dual-course-basses.html


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## Six6VI

I tried out a guy's 9 string once and I must admit, I was lost. Yet, I still kind of wanted one too.

Lee


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## phaeded0ut

On the thought of a super-wide neck, the nastiest finger spreader I've played upon was one of the older Fodera 6-string basses that they made for James Genus. It felt like the string spacing was wider than what you'd get on a 4-string bass. 
Those different 11+ string beasties are a bit much for me, but I am glad to see that folks out there are actively using them. 

Love the different design choices in it, too... Sinking the bridge and string stop into the face of the instrument is a very wise touch that lots of folks miss. Really dig the use of the BC-13 connector and how that area is contoured back into the rest of the body. Very tasty!

I do love the woodwork/inlaywork involved with the Jerzy Drozd "Yves Carbonne 12-string left-handed bass guitar," ... but I can with all honesty say, I'd not be able to play that instrument worth a damn (even if he made a right-handed version).


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## Xk6m6m5X

that jean baudin guy is sicks dude...double handned tapping the super mario bros theme and zelda


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## MF_Kitten

i have a 7 string bass on the way to my home right now 

and yeah, the british guy that made the crummy bass thingy was realy quite the twat... he made a useless piece of plywood sculpture made to imitate a real instrument, and i think he was going to sell it as a real working instrument...


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## 7string

That 13 string whatever thing can't be taken seriously at all!!


The Conklin GT7's are a great way to get into ERB's (Extended Range Basses). I bought one from the USA thru eBay and it's a great instrument. There's quite a few of them available as well. 

Back on topic, I went to 9 strings and that's where I'm going to stop! As much range as I need. There's a thread on here, but here's the instrument anyway:

This was made in Britain, but definately not by a twat!!!!!!!


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## tmcarr

There are videos of Yves Carbonne playing his 11/12/13 strings on Youtube. He is truly amazing. It CAN be taken seriously, its just not conventional.


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## MF_Kitten

i&#180;m going to use my 7 string bass as a 7 string guitar tuned down an octave, so i can double guitar parts on my 7 an octave down 

also, it has enough strings so i can play along with ordinary 6 string guitars, ordinary 7 string guitars (or, in my band, baritones tuned to B), and then 8 string guitars (or my baritone 7 tuned to f#/drop E).

and then i still have more range, because i have that high C as well (though i&#180;m going to tune it like a guitar, so it&#180;ll be a high B


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## Sepultorture

man i have never seen a pic of something with more than 11 strings on it, and no not paired 12 string instruments, like a real 5 string bass meets 6 string guitar, anything more than that, how would you tune it


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## Daemoniac

Variant said:


> Bah, one of these lil' things:



Kitteh!!

That bass is awesome as well dude


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## phaeded0ut

Downstairs kitteh saiz all ur bass belong to us!


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## Variant

tmcarr said:


> There are videos of Yves Carbonne playing his 11/12/13 strings on Youtube. He is truly amazing. It CAN be taken seriously, its just not conventional.



 Yves not _*only*_ plays a bass with that string count that high in a very bass-like fashion (i.e. not like a touchstyle guitar), but he plays fretless, and very tasteful stuff to boot. Not to mention he's got one of the most discernible and well mixed subcontra tones out there.


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## ixlramp

Although i love the crazy look of them, i'm no longer keen on the playability of fanned frets due to the problems with string bending: the fret moves towards or away from your finger, also in one bend direction the scale of the note lengthens, trying to lower the pitch while the bend tries to raise it.

Also i feel pitch stability would suffer a little as a result of unintentional bending of the string.

Personally i would rather make it a non fanned 12 string and have more frets for the same range and a thinner neck.

Fanned frets are no longer quite so necessary now that Octave4Plus makes such an amazing range of strings.


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## vehemence

kind of off topic.... heres a 12 stringer...



EDIT - chapmans stick, not a bass, dont mind me im an idiot.


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## MF_Kitten

ixlramp said:


> Although i love the crazy look of them, i'm no longer keen on the playability of fanned frets due to the problems with string bending: the fret moves towards or away from your finger, also in one bend direction the scale of the note lengthens, trying to lower the pitch while the bend tries to raise it.
> 
> Also i feel pitch stability would suffer a little as a result of unintentional bending of the string.
> 
> Personally i would rather make it a non fanned 12 string and have more frets for the same range and a thinner neck.
> 
> Fanned frets are no longer quite so necessary now that Octave4Plus makes such an amazing range of strings.



have you tried fanned frets since you´re saying this, or are you just considering the facts? judging from what people have said, it´s not really as different as it would seem.


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## ixlramp

Eheh... 

Yeah you guessed it MF, i haven't played one, so i'd be happy to be corrected on this by an owner.

I have seen owners describe the ergonomics and naturalness of their fanned instruments and i believe them. I guess they're okay for a little vibrato, but i play ultra light strings and like to bend a string an inch across the fretboard, so no good for me 






Multiscale by straight frets/stepped nut is another way...


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## BassCrazyXII

HammettHateCrew said:


> Hey, I typed in 13 string bass into google to try and find that bass that the british twat built and I stumbled upon these on photobucket...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Didn't get his name unfortunately.
> 
> Do you really think he'll pull it off?


After Googling myself on the web I came across this site with pictures of my Griffin Bass. You have come across some of the preliminary drawings and ideas that I had at the time. It is however no longer going to be a 13 string it is going to be a 12 string. After extensive research I and the builder of my Griffin XII it is impossible to have a 13 string at point in time. There is no strings that have been developed that will saporta 4 octave G# or and High Ab. The drawing in black & white is the current design that I am going with and has been so far nearly 2 years in the making. If you would like to see more detailed pictures you can look me or friend request me on MySpace at www.myspace.com/basscrazygriffinxii
Here's some current pics.
Griffin XII Build :: l_0edb7e968e204af9b7f552883fa1f8bf.jpg picture by leosound_2007 - Photobucket

Griffin XII Build :: l_09feb48a99b7391ba2f7a80d8f590c0d.jpg picture by leosound_2007 - Photobucket

Griffin XII Build :: l_4638bc372daf48b191e53bfb49bebd4b.jpg picture by leosound_2007 - Photobucket

Griffin XII Build :: Final Griffin Inlay3 picture by leosound_2007 - Photobucket

Griffin XII Build :: BloodWood venear on head stock picture by leosound_2007 - Photobucket

Griffin XII Build :: Veneer picture by leosound_2007 - Photobucket

Griffin XII Build :: Veneerbloodwoodmaple-1.jpg picture by leosound_2007 - Photobucket

Griffin XII Build :: l_533a8eb10e3d4e82b353431badb29239.jpg picture by leosound_2007 - Photobucket

Griffin XII Build :: l_ae2dd7cbc7215b25d0748c817ac24e14.gif picture by leosound_2007 - Photobucket


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## RazorPlarx

oh wow. good luck with it BassCrazy


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## BassCrazyXII

RazorPlarx said:


> oh wow. good luck with it BassCrazy


Thanks Razorplarx!


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## phaeded0ut

vehemence said:


> kind of off topic.... heres a 12 stringer...
> 
> EDIT - chapmans stick, not a bass, dont mind me im an idiot.



Hey, it's Greg Howard when he was still playing full-time! 

Having to put the idea of a 12-string bass (dual course 6-string) guitar on hold for economically turned issues. Hoping that things stabilize and will continue onward and forward. 

I guess I could kinda see the need to go to a low C#, but not sure if I'd use it enough to warrant a new instrument, unfortunately. The boutique bass in this thread is really gorgeous. Now, if only they made it headless... 

Good luck on getting that beastie up and running, Basscrazy, please, let us know what happens?


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## Adam

BassCrazyXII said:


> After extensive research I and the builder of my Griffin XII it is impossible to have a 13 string at point in time. There is no strings that have been developed that will saporta 4 octave G# or and High Ab.



You can get a high Ab for up to the 32" scale with the help of Garry Goodmans strings, he can also make you some strings for that G#00 which I assume thats the G your talking about. 
Heres the site: octave4plus.com


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## Apophis

Looks interesting, we're waiting for more updates soon


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## Phalanx

Apart from Yves Carbonne, most of the people who play basses with that many strings (so I'm talking 9/10++) suck at making music.

Especially Gary Goodman, and I've never liked Jean Baudin's stuff.


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## ghoti

Interesting what the thread has mutated into.

I think 7's my limit. It's a shoulder-breaker, and seems like a crossover point from a bass to something I want to tap with a lot more. I like my 6's OK but I'm not sure whether I'd rather do 7's more...weight gets to be a pretty big issue.

The good thing about more strings is that you can think more horizontally rather than vertically on the board. The bad thing is that, for some, with range comes the temptation to use that range...all the time...

The truly good ones can keep lots of stuff going at once...and then of course the question becomes why not use a keyboard? Especially on some of the 8+whatever strings, you have to sit down anyway, and your sound is very reliant upon electronics.


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## Adam

ghoti said:


> The truly good ones can keep lots of stuff going at once...and then of course the question becomes why not use a keyboard? Especially on some of the 8+whatever strings, you have to sit down anyway, and your sound is very reliant upon electronics.



Personally I have always been better at guitar than piano, and I find it more comfortable to play guitar than piano. I'm going to be building a 11 string guitar with 39 fet tuned G#0-A4 with the highest note being C8, I will have the entire range of a 88 key piano plus 1 note(G#0), it will be MIDI equipped as well, and with this one instrument I will never need a keyboard and I will have the gratification of playing the one instrument I love.


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## Æxitosus

Breakdown said:


> that neck looks MASSIVE. how do people play these 11 string monster basses and guitars
> lol
> heres a 15 string one



that is a fucking monster


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## BassCrazyXII

phaeded0ut said:


> Hey, it's Greg Howard when he was still playing full-time!
> 
> Having to put the idea of a 12-string bass (dual course 6-string) guitar on hold for economically turned issues. Hoping that things stabilize and will continue onward and forward.
> 
> I guess I could kinda see the need to go to a low C#, but not sure if I'd use it enough to warrant a new instrument, unfortunately. The boutique bass in this thread is really gorgeous. Now, if only they made it headless...
> 
> Good luck on getting that beastie up and running, Basscrazy, please, let us know what happens?


 Ahh.... Headless, Yes we did The builder and I did discuss weather to have a headless verses head stock for the Griffin, I decided to go with the head stock. I might be regretting that decisions in the long run but I love the head stock design. The builder can and was prepared to go headless if I gave the go ahead... Thanks! If I can figure out how to leave pics on here I 'll post them as I go.



Adam said:


> You can get a high Ab for up to the 32" scale with the help of Garry Goodmans strings, he can also make you some strings for that G#00 which I assume thats the G your talking about.
> Heres the site: octave4plus.com


Hi Adam!
Yep your right. I will probably try his His octave4Plus .006 My builder of the Griffin tried a .006 which I believe was piano wire at the time and it did brake before the Conklin .007 that is made by Sit string corp. I was told by the builder he was able to stretch the .007 to a Ab with the help of the high side of the neck in 28" scale. However The Octave4Plus strings are said not to be designed for fan fretted instruments such is the design of the Griffin. And I'm afraid I might be the reason why Octave4Plus strings are not designed for fan fret boards. The last I talked to Garry about a year and half ago he was still working on the development of the G#00. not sure I would go that low after doing more experimenting just as late.



Apophis said:


> Looks interesting, we're waiting for more updates soon


Hi Apophis!
I will be happy to as long as I can figure out how to post pictures on her. I tried it the first time I posted but they didn't turn out... Any help in that direction would be helpful to this old guy...LOL!!! Thanks...
PS love the cool looking bass you have in your profile pic saaaweet looking indeed



Phalanx said:


> Apart from Yves Carbonne, most of the people who play basses with that many strings (so I'm talking 9/10++) suck at making music.
> 
> Especially Gary Goodman, and I've never liked Jean Baudin's stuff.


I don't know if I could say that about any body Garry and Baudian are both play touch bass style. It's like any other style, a listener will either gravitate towards it or be repelled by it. I personal lean myself towards Yves traditional style. That's my style to. It seems to me when playing touch bass style to keep momentum of hammering and pulling off string it can sometimes sound mechanical and repetitive at times. But I still have great respect for Theo's that play that style and would never say anything negative about anybodys playing... I LOVE the bass instrument and all who play it I consider my brothers & sisters of the bassment dwellers!



Adam said:


> Personally I have always been better at guitar than piano, and I find it more comfortable to play guitar than piano. I'm going to be building a 11 string guitar with 39 fet tuned G#0-A4 with the highest note being C8, I will have the entire range of a 88 key piano plus 1 note(G#0), it will be MIDI equipped as well, and with this one instrument I will never need a keyboard and I will have the gratification of playing the one instrument I love.


Brilliant Adam!!!! I love people that like to think outside the box.... I want to see that 11 string!



Æxitosus;1478670 said:


> that is a fucking monster


I bought this 15 string bass knowing that it was not going to tune. I bought it for one reason for the neck. If you are thinking about buying this bass for fun to play it you will be sadly disappointed it. This bass comes with light gage bass strings it is strung with 3-B, 3-E, 3-A, 3-D, 3-G. Impossible to tune. The neck is a large plank of wood to say the least and as you might imagine far out ways the little body. Both the body, neck & fret board is made out of maple. The rose wood compensated bridge is flat and not radius with the radius of the fret board ... bad idea! So the most center strings on out toward the outside of the neck will bottom out and buzz the higher you play up towards the heel of the neck joint. The pick ups are very cheap with very low out put. Cheap electronics and plastic knobs. The strap buttons are real metal and the machine heads are of ping type quality. If that was not enough to make my stomach turn I opened the back string plate cover to take a look where the strings go through the string furrows. The string holes at best was just guessed at while the drill bit was rammed through the wood. It only took them 3 attempts to screw the cover on crooked. And here was the clincher. The ground wire was threaded through each hole in each ball end of the each string... there fore if you broke the outside G string in #1 position you would have to take off all 14 strings and pull out the ground wire and replace the G string and the rest of the 14 strings while re threading the ground wire through each. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The neck was the best part of the instrument and did have dual truss rod it was level the frets where just ok... Good thing that's all I wanted in the first place.
SUM UP; This is not a instrument it is a toy at best... survey says


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## Adam

BassCrazyXII said:


> Hi Adam!
> Yep your right. I will probably try his His octave4Plus .006 My builder of the Griffin tried a .006 which I believe was piano wire at the time and it did brake before the Conklin .007 that is made by Sit string corp. I was told by the builder he was able to stretch the .007 to a Ab with the help of the high side of the neck in 28" scale. However The Octave4Plus strings are said not to be designed for fan fretted instruments such is the design of the Griffin. And I'm afraid I might be the reason why Octave4Plus strings are not designed for fan fret boards. The last I talked to Garry about a year and half ago he was still working on the development of the G#00. not sure I would go that low after doing more experimenting just as late.


Actually you can use his strings for fanned instruments Garry himself uses them on his 12 string fanned 34"-32", and a member here Leo(Durero) uses them on his custom fanned guitar as well.



> Brilliant Adam!!!! I love people that like to think outside the box.... I want to see that 11 string!


Thanks I will post pics when I'm finished building it, it will now have 41 frets so I will have a 7 and a half octave span


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## Durero

ixlramp said:


> Eheh...
> 
> Yeah you guessed it MF, i haven't played one, so i'd be happy to be corrected on this by an owner.
> 
> I have seen owners describe the ergonomics and naturalness of their fanned instruments and i believe them. I guess they're okay for a little vibrato, but i play ultra light strings and like to bend a string an inch across the fretboard, so no good for me .


Consider yourself corrected 
I've been playing on a 32"-36" fan 7-string since 2003 and bends are no problem at all.


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## Æxitosus

BassCrazyXII said:


> I bought this 15 string bass knowing that it was not going to tune. I bought it for one reason for the neck. If you are thinking about buying this bass for fun to play it you will be sadly disappointed it. This bass comes with light gage bass strings it is strung with 3-B, 3-E, 3-A, 3-D, 3-G. Impossible to tune. The neck is a large plank of wood to say the least and as you might imagine far out ways the little body. Both the body, neck & fret board is made out of maple. The rose wood compensated bridge is flat and not radius with the radius of the fret board ... bad idea! So the most center strings on out toward the outside of the neck will bottom out and buzz the higher you play up towards the heel of the neck joint. The pick ups are very cheap with very low out put. Cheap electronics and plastic knobs. The strap buttons are real metal and the machine heads are of ping type quality. If that was not enough to make my stomach turn I opened the back string plate cover to take a look where the strings go through the string furrows. The string holes at best was just guessed at while the drill bit was rammed through the wood. It only took them 3 attempts to screw the cover on crooked. And here was the clincher. The ground wire was threaded through each hole in each ball end of the each string... there fore if you broke the outside G string in #1 position you would have to take off all 14 strings and pull out the ground wire and replace the G string and the rest of the 14 strings while re threading the ground wire through each. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The neck was the best part of the instrument and did have dual truss rod it was level the frets where just ok... Good thing that's all I wanted in the first place.
> SUM UP; This is not a instrument it is a toy at best... survey says



I was kind of expecting it to be a piece of shit...it still looks like a beast though, you gotta admit.


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## BassCrazyXII

Adam said:


> Actually you can use his strings for fanned instruments Garry himself uses them on his 12 string fanned 34"-32", and a member here Leo(Durero) uses them on his custom fanned guitar as well.
> 
> 
> Thanks I will post pics when I'm finished building it, it will now have 41 frets so I will have a 7 and a half octave span


Hum, Well, I guess I need to go back to his site and read it again... I was sure I read that the strings where not designed for fan fretted instruments and even the builder of my ERB mentioned it to me and said 'He must be talking about us' If that's the case I'll check them out..

41 frets!?!?!? Wow, I can only imagine how close each one of Theo's frets are going to be from one another. I'm not sure if I'll be able to handle my 32 frets with my meaty fingers .. LOL!... I'll be looking for the pics!


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## Durero

BassCrazyXII said:


> Hum, Well, I guess I need to go back to his site and read it again... I was sure I read that the strings where not designed for fan fretted instruments and even the builder of my ERB mentioned it to me and said 'He must be talking about us' If that's the case I'll check them out..


I'm sure Garry's intended meaning is that his strings can reduce or eliminate the need for fanned frets. There's nothing special about fanned frets that would require special strings other than a reduced change in gage from string to string compared with straight frets.

I use Garry's strings on fanned fret guitars and Garry himself designed the high A strings for his 34" - 32" fanned 12-string bass in the first place.


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## BassCrazyXII

Æxitosus;1499263 said:


> I was kind of expecting it to be a piece of shit...it still looks like a beast though, you gotta admit.


Yes it is a beast! After I took the neck off and did some carving, filling and some sanding it is a much more manageable neck and is now playable.

I was reading someone else's comment pertaining to this bass higher on this thread.. sorry I did not get his name but he had asked if the strings where supposed to be uneven? From best that I could tell that was not the intention. Unfortunately the string furrow holes are not evenly spaced apart from each other. You can achieve it by moving them where you want them than when tuning will apply the force it need to Barrie the string down into the rose wood.. 

I guess it would be worth mentioning how wide the neck is.... @ the nut 4-5/16". @ the 24 fret 5-5/16".


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## knuckle_head

I did the math once, and it is indeed possible to get to a point where no more frets can be added.

I'll see if I can find that... but it was actually in the 40's if memory serves.

Bill Conklin will hate you.


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## Chickenhawk

SKJORH said:


> 15 string fucking AWESOMNESS


 

any videos of the 15 string?


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## vampiregenocide

That vid is awesome, thanks for posting.


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## NeglectedField

HammettHateCrew said:


> I meant the british twat on youtube who built that 13 string, 28" scale plywood piece of crap.



What's with the chip on the shoulder, eh?


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