# Taking vocal lessons - is it REALLY worth it?



## XeoFLCL (Nov 13, 2009)

I've been doing alot of vocals lately, and want to do full-on singing. Will taking vocal lessons help me any, or has anyone here done so and found their ability and range significantly improved? I've always been self taught on guitar and I've done absolutely fine on that, but staying in tune with vocals isn't quite as easy..


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Nov 13, 2009)

Vocal training has helped me control my voice more, which is to say that I have fewer breaks in my voice, can sing comfortably, have more volume, can stay in tune, and have the whole breathing thing down. I don't know about range, though. I certainly have more usable range now, but I don't think vocal training has really extended my range as much as it has "opened it up"; my brother and I both have very similar ranges, so I'm guessing that it's somewhat predetermined by genetics.

If you really want to work on your voice, I suggest singing in a choir: it's easy as hell, you get some free vocal coaching if you really suck (assuming that the director cares), and you sing a lot more and louder than if you were taking private lessons.


----------



## XeoFLCL (Nov 13, 2009)

I don't really mind spending the cash though.. that's that last thing I'm worried about with the holidays coming up (BIG TIPS! ) but would joining a choir and getting coaching through it be as efficient and effective as one on one training? I'm pretty much fresh meat to vocals and training of such aswell so if you know any good trainers in the area aswell (you're near LA yes?)


----------



## xtrustisyoursx (Nov 13, 2009)

If you do, don't bother taking a "rock" singing class or something like that. Take a classical voice lesson, and that will teach you proper breathing, projection, and endurance. Then you can apply that to any style.


----------



## dnoel86 (Nov 13, 2009)

xtrustisyoursx said:


> If you do, don't bother taking a "rock" singing class or something like that. Take a classical voice lesson, and that will teach you proper breathing, projection, and endurance. Then you can apply that to any style.



This for sure.

I also agree with the choir comment. I have to take sight-singing (maybe 12 people) and choir (about 40) as part of my music course, and the difference is night and day...you definitely sing much louder in a choir cause there's less stress about screwing up.


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Nov 13, 2009)

xtrustisyoursx said:


> If you do, don't bother taking a "rock" singing class or something like that. Take a classical voice lesson, and that will teach you proper breathing, projection, and endurance. Then you can apply that to any style.



This. Classical voice is all about kicking ass without a microphone. After that, singing with a mic is like punching Odin and all the gods in Valhalla in the nuts.



XeoFLCL said:


> I don't really mind spending the cash though.. that's that last thing I'm worried about with the holidays coming up (BIG TIPS! ) but would joining a choir and getting coaching through it be as efficient and effective as one on one training? I'm pretty much fresh meat to vocals and training of such aswell so if you know any good trainers in the area aswell (you're near LA yes?)



The only vocal coaches I really know are the ones that teach at my school. I see ads for vocal lessons, but I ignore them, as I'm not a full-time singer, am broke, and feel like I could sing on the spot if I needed to.

I've never really had one-on-one, I think I would have felt too shy about it when I was first learning. On the other hand, one-on-one could work for you. The choir thing, I stand by, though. It really is a great workout (I almost had abs the last time I sang with a choir ), and you get tons of practice. Singing a part helps you to analyze music down the road, too.

And, yeah, I'm in Burbank. Not quite near Fullerton, but it's not like the situation is going to be vastly different down there.


----------



## XeoFLCL (Nov 13, 2009)

SchecterWhore said:


> The only vocal coaches I really know are the ones that teach at my school. I see ads for vocal lessons, but I ignore them, as I'm not a full-time singer, am broke, and feel like I could sing on the spot if I needed to.
> 
> I've never really had one-on-one, I think I would have felt too shy about it when I was first learning. On the other hand, one-on-one could work for you. The choir thing, I stand by, though. It really is a great workout (I almost had abs the last time I sang with a choir ), and you get tons of practice. Singing a part helps you to analyze music down the road, too.
> 
> And, yeah, I'm in Burbank. Not quite near Fullerton, but it's not like the situation is going to be vastly different down there.


Alright, I'll prolly look into it. And yeah you're right about that, the situation. I'll ask some people about it, I know a good producer who can direct me towards someone who knows their stuff.


----------



## Leuchty (Nov 13, 2009)

To answer your question, yes.

I think it is worth it. I took lessons for two years and it helped me a great deal. If someone can give you professional advice/tips? go for it.

You will only get better.


----------



## JohnIce (Nov 13, 2009)

I second classical vocal coaches. Many pop/rock vocal coaches are really elsuive people with firm opinions on how you should sound, with a lot of subjective views. Not to mention a lot of "imagine this!" and "Let's say you were doing this" and just trying to sell you these strange ideas that may be fully understandable to them but not to you. Classical singers are usually schooled themselves, and know the best ways to teach the important stuff.

I've went through 4 different coaches, and the only one worth his salt was a classical tenor. I definately think it helps to have a vocal coach of the same gender as you, for obvious reasons. The great thing about this guy was that besides being a really technically proficient classical tenor, he grew up on AC/DC and Zeppelin and he could totally understand why someone might actually want to scream and push their voice in strange ways because it's an important part of rock vocals. So instead of trying to turn me into anything else (like all the other coaches I've had did), he tried to use his knowledge to help me get the sounds that I wanted, in ways that were a lot more efficient and comfortable than what I was doing before.

I'm not a classical singer at all, but I'm an infinitely better rock vocalist now than I was before. And not only do I sing better, but I can sustain my voice much longer. I can do full gigs without feeling any fatigue or loss of voice afterwards.


----------



## cycloptopus (Nov 13, 2009)

I'm not a vocals guy but I did have choir in college as a part of my prerequisite. It really was a cool experience. I had an awesome director and we did a ton of Bach and that shit is so emotionally powerful I had chills running up and down my spine all the time. Very cool.

But really, one of the things that I know is important about classical instruction, is that Opera singers need to scream. A classical instructor will teach you how to scream properly so you won't destroy your vocal chords in addition to everything everyone else is stating here. So it doesn't matter if you're into metal or just want to nail the notes, quality classical instruction will do heaps of good. And it may save your voice from serious damage.


----------



## JohnIce (Nov 14, 2009)

cycloptopus said:


> I'm not a vocals guy but I did have choir in college as a part of my prerequisite. It really was a cool experience. I had an awesome director and we did a ton of Bach and that shit is so emotionally powerful I had chills running up and down my spine all the time. Very cool.
> 
> But really, one of the things that I know is important about classical instruction, is that Opera singers need to scream. A classical instructor will teach you how to scream properly so you won't destroy your vocal chords in addition to everything everyone else is stating here. So it doesn't matter if you're into metal or just want to nail the notes, quality classical instruction will do heaps of good. And it may save your voice from serious damage.


 
Not sure if "screaming" is the right word, but yes, classical singing predates the microphones and PA systems we have today, it was developed in a time when a human voice had to compete with an entire orchestra. Opera halls were built in kind of a cone-like fashion to help this projection of sound from the stage, but still, the classical technique is designed to be pretty damn loud. And as guitar players, we know it's fun to be loud


----------



## TonalArchitect (Nov 14, 2009)

^ With Opera, though, realize that it is actually *not* the be-all-end-all of vocal technique, and they may push you towards a narrower style with a heavier (read: darker) tone, whereas choir will give you a pretty flexible bright sound while still teaching you good breathing etc.

EDIT: And also realize that there's a difference between Opera and the big-freaking-bear-people-filled thing we call Wagnerian Opera. Vastly bigger orchestra than early Opera, so vastly bigger vocal sound required.


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Nov 14, 2009)

TonalArchitect said:


> ^ With Opera, though, realize that it is actually *not* the be-all-end-all of vocal technique, and they may push you towards a narrower style with a heavier (read: darker) tone, whereas choir will give you a pretty flexible bright sound while still teaching you good breathing etc.
> 
> EDIT: And also realize that there's a difference between Opera and the big-freaking-bear-people-filled thing we call Wagnerian Opera. Vastly bigger orchestra than early Opera, so vastly bigger vocal sound required.



True, this. Also, some voices blend well with a choir, and some stick out like a sore thumb. We call those "soloists". 

But, really, opera and choral work are two different beasts. Even in opera, you'll have a vast range of technical difference. Like TA said, Wagnerian opera requires beastly singers to overcome the orchestra, but Puccini opera is lighter, in comparison. Both require some amazing technique, however. Just not in the same places.


----------



## Cynic (Dec 20, 2009)

cycloptopus said:


> I'm not a vocals guy but I did have choir in college as a part of my prerequisite. It really was a cool experience. I had an awesome director and we did a ton of Bach and that shit is so emotionally powerful I had chills running up and down my spine all the time. Very cool.
> 
> But really, one of the things that I know is important about classical instruction, is that Opera singers need to *scream*. A classical instructor will teach you how to *scream* properly so you won't destroy your vocal chords in addition to everything everyone else is stating here. So it doesn't matter if you're into metal or just want to nail the notes, quality classical instruction will do heaps of good. And it may save your voice from serious damage.



I think that a better term would be "project."


----------



## cycloptopus (Dec 21, 2009)

Well, as it was told to me by my choir teacher, Opera singers need to scream because they are acting. The parts call for it at times. So the idea is they have to be able to scream and yet do it in a way that it won't hurt their vocal chords. So there is technique involved in screaming properly.


----------



## TonalArchitect (Dec 23, 2009)

^ Yeah, that happens, especially in "newer" opera. 

Either way, singing lessons=good. With stuff like "point" (placing the sound in your nose or like you're singing through your teeth), it's easier to get a better tone and to center the pitch.


----------

