# Current BC Rich Thread



## electriceye

I was skeptical when a new owner took over licensing of the brand two years ago. They came out with a very limited lineup and some hideous finishes. Promised a lot more in the year that followed. Since then, no real new updates. Their twitter and FB accounts are virtually dormant. I know there was/is someone on here who had some insider knowledge, so hoping he can pprovide some insight. As a lifeling BCR fanboy, the past 15 years of the brand flopping around on life support has been sad to see. They completely missed out on the superstrat revival and just can't seem to do anything that registers with people anymore outside of 13-year-old metalheads. It's as if they've disappeared.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I don't know if they are, but after they decided to get in touch with Jr. they fucking deserve to be. 

I hope Moser buys the scraps and sets them on fire.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

BC Rich should've died in the 80/90s along with dean. Some of the worst designs ever created imo (except the eagle).


----------



## possumkiller

MaxOfMetal said:


> they decided to get in touch with Jr.



Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??????? 

What's the story with that?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???????
> 
> What's the story with that?



Some of those involved with the most recent revival of the company were BRJ apologists and defenders. They were going to have him work with the custom shop again and even brought the walking sack of excrement to NAMM.


----------



## possumkiller

Wow fuck that. BCR just needs to stop. Im really surprised that there are enough slayer fanboys playing cheap guitars to keep them in business so long.


----------



## manu80

well seeing the new ziricote warlock at 1500 euros for a guitar made in China, something is wrong at bc rich.
Some models from 2016 appeared only this year in england. In france nobody stocks them almost....


----------



## possumkiller

Also don't they know he doesn't actually build guitars? He doesn't even supervise. He's just a "face of the company" guy posting staged pictures and taking in money...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> Also don't they know he doesn't actually build guitars? He doesn't even supervise. He's just a "face of the company" guy posting staged pictures and taking in money...



That's been BCR in a nutshell for the last decade or two. All image no substance.


----------



## Curt

The only thing I ever wanted from BCR was a white baritone 7 string stealth, but I couldn't afford custom shop shit, so that was never going to happen. Nothing else they've ever made has appealed to me, tbh.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Curt said:


> The only thing I ever wanted from BCR was a white baritone 7 string stealth, but I couldn't afford custom shop shit, so that was never going to happen. Nothing else they've ever made has appealed to me, tbh.



RAN will shamelessly copy BCR shapes, and would probably be cheaper.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MaxOfMetal said:


> RAN will shamelessly copy BCR shapes, and would probably be cheaper.


you also forgot to mention that Ran can actually build a good guitar


----------



## MaxOfMetal

KnightBrolaire said:


> you also forgot to mention that Ran can actually build a good guitar



Typically, though like a lot of brands there are horror stories. I've heard RAN has gotten much more consistent in the last several years. 

Though, the BCR Custom Shop never really had a major quality problem in recent memory. They farmed out a lot of the work though.


----------



## cardinal

Very sad that BC Rich has been a mess for decades.


----------



## downburst82

KnightBrolaire said:


> BC Rich should've died in the 80/90s along with dean. Some of the worst designs ever created imo (except the eagle).


+1 for the eagle (beautiful guitar), the mockingbird deserves to exist as well but that was 70's BC Rich...pretty much everything else (no offence to Neal Moser)


----------



## possumkiller

I heard RAN will only do their own shapes now. At least when I wanted a quote for an RGT 7 string style guitar a couple of years ago that's what I was told.


----------



## cardinal

MaxOfMetal said:


> Typically, though like a lot of brands there are horror stories. I've heard RAN has gotten much more consistent in the last several years.
> 
> Though, the BCR Custom Shop never really had a major quality problem in recent memory. They farmed out a lot of the work though.



I remember a 7-string archtop Warlock build from the early 2000s that was a complete debacle. I think they tried two rebuilds and took years to make a pile of junk. And I’ve heard that guitars around that time had truss rod issues. I had one that was fine but at the end of its adjustment range.


----------



## bostjan

I love my USA 7 string mockingbird. I commissioned the build in the late 1990's at the same time as a friend, who ordered a king v. A number of months later, I had my guitar, but my friend didn't get his. After many many months passed, with numerous phone calls and no answers, he tried to cancel his order to get his deposit back. Then he received a king v in the mail and it was complete junk. Having laid hands on both my MB7 and his KV6 the first day they arrived, I can honestly say that my guitar turned out perfectly while his was just cheap feeling. The fretwork was fine, but the finish on it was a mess, the wood hadn't been dried/treated properly, the points were broken in shipping, there were problems with the wiring and/or electronics, etc.

I think I dodged a bullet. Then again, my guitar was finished right around the time Bernie Sr. passed away, and I get the feeling that the company has been crumbling apart ever since then.


----------



## mastapimp

manu80 said:


> well seeing the new ziricote warlock at 1500 euros for a guitar made in China, something is wrong at bc rich.
> Some models from 2016 appeared only this year in england. In france nobody stocks them almost....



I picked up a brand new b-stock ziricote warlock about 2 months ago for $500 USD. The street price was in the $1000-1200 range depending on if it came with the dimarzio pickup upgrade. For a Chinese guitar I was impressed. The quality was on par with schecter diamond series instruments (the only exception being a mix up in the control wiring). Glad I didn't pay too much more, but it's a fun guitar to play.

I will add that it was very difficult researching this guitar. As others have pointed out, their website doesn't really give you much info (or it's not up to date) and I wasn't seeing them offered or advertised at my usual vendors. You only see the quality issues when you open it up (I adjusted the springs and swapped the pickups to a dimebag set). The guitar arrived with the volume controls in opposite positions from what was logical (neck volume was physically located behind the bridge volume). It was a quick fix when installing the new pickups, but I couldn't find any of the control descriptions anywhere online. I too was left with the impression that B.C. Rich was no longer putting effort into selling these guitars.


----------



## zappatton2

I really regret selling my CS '07 Beast and '03 Eagle, they were impeccable guitars. Aside from the Draco and Warbeast, I love, and I mean adoringly, unapologetically LOVE every shape they have. It's sad that they went so downhill and barely register these days. I still do XLS spreadsheets of dream BCR custom orders, but it looks like that will forever be an exercise in fantasy. Maybe Neal will buy the company one day? One can dare to dream!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

downburst82 said:


> +1 for the eagle (beautiful guitar), the mockingbird deserves to exist as well but that was 70's BC Rich...pretty much everything else (no offence to Neal Moser)


neal moser is the king of bad taste and design imo, although minarik and jeff kiesel are inching closer every day towards stealing that throne.


----------



## oracles

MaxOfMetal said:


> RAN will shamelessly copy BCR shapes, and would probably be cheaper.



Nope, RAN hasn't done copies since 2015 and is absolutely refusing to do them going forward.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

KnightBrolaire said:


> neal moser is the king of bad taste and design imo, although minarik and jeff kiesel are inching closer every day towards stealing that throne.



I see your Kiesel and Minarik and raise you Ethereal. 

I don't care what you say about Moser, this is badass:


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MaxOfMetal said:


> I see your Kiesel and Minarik and raise you Ethereal.
> 
> I don't care what you say about Moser, this is badass:


Yeah, etherial is almost comparable with moser/minarik for most uncomfortable looking guitars ever. All of them have the pointy guitar syndrome where n=number of pointy parts a guitar should have and they're all at n^2 or n^3 in etherial's case. 

I do like that one actually, same with this one:


----------



## gunch

Fernandes Japan makes a killer mocking bird copy as a sig for some jrock dude if you want a bcr without necessarily giving them money


----------



## cardinal

The Mockingbird and Warlock are just beautiful guitars IMHO. I’ll always have a soft spot for the Stealth because of Chuck Shunldiner. Even the Ironbird and Beast are kinda badass and well designed for what they are. 

Never been a huge fan of the Bich. Not at all a fan of the Virgin or Wraith. 

I’m indifferent on the Eagle, though I quite like the Seagull. 

Any other shapes?


----------



## Vostre Roy

If BC Rich would release a non-bronze serie Ironbird, I'd probably buy it on a whip, but I don't see that happening.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

cardinal said:


> The Mockingbird and Warlock are just beautiful guitars IMHO. I’ll always have a soft spot for the Stealth because of Chuck Shunldiner. Even the Ironbird and Beast are kinda badass and well designed for what they are.
> 
> Never been a huge fan of the Bich. Not at all a fan of the Virgin or Wraith.
> 
> I’m indifferent on the Eagle, though I quite like the Seagull.
> 
> Any other shapes?


>warlock
>beautiful


----------



## cardinal

I know I’m probably alone on that. But a pearl white Warlock with the traditional 3x3 (or 3x4!) headstock and cloud inlay looks somehow elegant to me.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

cardinal said:


> I know I’m probably alone on that. But a pearl white Warlock with the traditional 3x3 (or 3x4!) headstock and cloud inlay looks somehow elegant to me.


I mean, I'm all for pointy guitars *when they're done well, *but I've never jived with the whole super pointy guitar/metal aesthetic with cloud inlays. It's so incongruous. It's like seeing a daisy rock butterfly guitar with a barbed wire inlay.


----------



## electriceye

cardinal said:


> I know I’m probably alone on that. But a pearl white Warlock with the traditional 3x3 (or 3x4!) headstock and cloud inlay looks somehow elegant to me.



That's the exact Warlock that has been high on my GAS list for a LONG time.


----------



## electriceye

silverabyss said:


> Fernandes Japan makes a killer mocking bird copy as a sig for some jrock dude if you want a bcr without necessarily giving them money



The problem is that it's a bolt-on, and quite chunky, at that. Do they actually still make them??


----------



## Shoeless_jose

Never understood this company's appeal at all. But too each his own


----------



## gunch

electriceye said:


> The problem is that it's a bolt-on, and quite chunky, at that. Do they actually still make them??



Yeah I should have said they _used_ to make a mockingbird copy for the JapanX dude but there’s 3-4 on Reverb


----------



## eggy in a bready

silverabyss said:


> Fernandes Japan makes a killer mocking bird copy as a sig for some jrock dude if you want a bcr without necessarily giving them money


bruh, did you just call hide "some jrock dude"?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

It would be really great if the next group of melvins who buys the B.C. Rich name would just license out the shapes to solid builders. That's really what the fans want, aside from performing a resurrection on Sr. 

Unfortunately, I feel both have an equal likelihood of happening.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I find the BC Rich necks I've played on to be absolutely unplayable. The thickness made it really cumbersome to play on, and fatiguing as well. How the fuck were these things popular in the 80s? I find Gibson and Fender to be far more playable.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I find the BC Rich necks I've played on to be absolutely unplayable. The thickness made it really cumbersome to play on, and fatiguing as well. How the fuck were these things popular in the 80s? I find Gibson and Fender to be far more playable.



What have you played? 

The production has been so spotty over the last decade that they never really had much in the way of a "neck identity". 

The old 70's and 80's stuff was all handmade so you could get whatever neck shape you wanted. It's actually kind of a pain in the ass because you can buy an old Warlock or Mockingbird with a nice thin neck and then buy another from the same period that's a boat. 

The old 90's stuff usually skewed towards thin necks, especially on bolt-on models. It wasn't until the early 00's when Hanser took over that they started with uniformly thicker necks. 

There are still some gems out there. The more recent Gunslinger Retro models have nice necks, but if you're going for a super Strat why bother with BCR?


----------



## feraledge

MaxOfMetal said:


> I hope Moser buys the scraps and sets them on fire.


It's all those poor guitars ever wanted...


----------



## Edika

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I find the BC Rich necks I've played on to be absolutely unplayable. The thickness made it really cumbersome to play on, and fatiguing as well. How the fuck were these things popular in the 80s? I find Gibson and Fender to be far more playable.



I've only played two of their relatively recent models from their NJ Deluxe series. The JrV which had a really thick neck. It reminded me of my friends Schecter ATX and Gibson custom LP in terms of uncomfortable neck and cramping, even though I found his Gibson the most difficult to play. The BC Rich wasn't unplayable but changing to any other guitar felt like taking weights of my hands.

The BC Rich 7 string Stealth however has a thin and comfy neck which I assume was due tot the fact of being a Marc Rizzo signature model. I was a bit concerned when I got it as it my previous experience neck wise wasn't that positive but this was the only guitar that I liked from the BC Rich line but luckily it is ok.


----------



## marcwormjim

Doing repairs on BC Rich Bronze and Dean Dime models forever ruined both brands for me. 

Every one brought in was a case of an obese teenager stepping on the cable and tearing the jack out. One kid even stepped on his cable so many times in a one week span that his parents (pardon the pun) grounded him from playing until he was willing to put the cable through his strap.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MaxOfMetal said:


> What have you played?
> 
> The production has been so spotty over the last decade that they never really had much in the way of a "neck identity".
> 
> The old 70's and 80's stuff was all handmade so you could get whatever neck shape you wanted. It's actually kind of a pain in the ass because you can buy an old Warlock or Mockingbird with a nice thin neck and then buy another from the same period that's a boat.
> 
> The old 90's stuff usually skewed towards thin necks, especially on bolt-on models. It wasn't until the early 00's when Hanser took over that they started with uniformly thicker necks.
> 
> There are still some gems out there. The more recent Gunslinger Retro models have nice necks, but if you're going for a super Strat why bother with BCR?


At this point, fuck if I know. It was a lot time ago. I want to say it was a Mockingbird STQ, but I could be way off. The neck was almost like playing a brick.

There was one BC Rich Warlock that a friend of mine had that I liked. It was older, from like the 1980s, and had a Floyd Rose. I think it was an OFR, and the guitar was made in America maybe. That was even further back. It was beat up, but it sounded good enough though it had stock pickups.

And when it comes to thin necks, I think the one that takes the cake was an old Japanese Jackson a friend of mine had. I was not surprised in the LEAST to find the tell-tale broken headstock demarcation line of glue on the back; the thing anorexic as fuck, and literally two goddamn graham crackers superglued to each other. _*Maybe *_three. Maybe. This thing was so fucking thin, it made any Ibanez in the world feel thick and chunky in comparison. Granted, it was when I was first starting to play [I had maybe played 2 years or so], but the lack of neck was almost too much, and made it hard to play in a different way.


----------



## Ebony

I think there is a good possibility that the company is going to linger in some shape or form (pun intended), simply because their designs are still in-demand and with their artist-legacy being what it is people are going to consider them as a serious company.


----------



## Jeff K

When Bernie Rico and Bernie JR owned the company, they made some amazing quality guitars!


----------



## lewis

anything BC Rich ive ever owned or played has been complete piss. My bands bassist has a warlock Bass and just like mine, the thing broke itself. They look like tosh in this day and age and they are built even worse.

BC Rich should have reinvented themselves. I look at the new "Solar guitars" that are more conventional metal guitar shapes and finishes and think.....that could have been a company like Bc Rich instead. But..in typical Bc Rich fashion, it wasnt them and instead they just continue to wallow in their own shit. Anyone older than 13 wouldnt buy anything from them right now surely?


----------



## Blytheryn

Am I the only guy here that would kill for a well made Ironbird?


----------



## manu80

Wow .... that hate...not worst that some other brands hype that will disappear in 10 years... anyways...to each his own
I like'em.
At least no LP or the same strat always...
My warlock, first guitar ever, is still at home. Easy to play and comfy, it's sad they dont try to make things good. The Logic behind their mk 1/2/3 stuff was good but failed to be found in a lot of places....

So they wont be at Namm ?


----------



## Vostre Roy

Blytheryn said:


> Am I the only guy here that would kill for a well made Ironbird?





Vostre Roy said:


> If BC Rich would release a non-bronze serie Ironbird, I'd probably buy it on a whip, but I don't see that happening.



You and I at least, brother


----------



## lewis

marcwormjim said:


> Doing repairs on BC Rich Bronze and Dean Dime models forever ruined both brands for me.
> 
> Every one brought in was a case of an obese teenager stepping on the cable and tearing the jack out. One kid even stepped on his cable so many times in a one week span that his parents (pardon the pun) *grounded him from playing until he was willing to put the cable through his strap*.




HAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## ImBCRichBitch

I have a 2010 warlock, and other than how unplayably thin the neck it (when compared to a buddys massive collection of ibbys, the warlock was thinner) its absolutely perfect. The warlock is actually one of my favourite shapes, along with the mock. Just after that my old vocalist bought a red bevel warlock, complete junk. Then he bought, if i remember correctly, a 90s draco and hes absolutely in love


----------



## exo

I'll be another voice in the "don't get the hate" camp.

I have two 2014/2015 timeframe Korean made (WMI, assume) BCR guitars that I absolutely love to death, a Mockingbird ST, and a Warlock Plus FR. The only issue I have is that the lower grade Floyd on the Warlock has saddles soft enough that the previous owner actually grooved the one for the G string by overtightening the locking screw. Guitar itself is solid, well made.....and the lightest electric guitar I've ever owned. Lighter than a couple acoustics I've owned, honestly.


----------



## possumkiller

I had an original run ASM Pro with alder body and diamond inlays. It was one of the best metal guitars I've ever had. I learned to shred on it in Iraq. When I came back I had an ESP MII urban camo waiting for me with the same specs. I'm a big ESP fanboy but I will admit the ESP seriously had nothing better to offer. They played the same and sounded the same. I was seriously impressed as I only tried the ASM Pro because of the specs. I was a goth Emperor wannabe as a teen and had a few horrible BC Rich imports so I was skeptical.


----------



## cwhitey2

feraledge said:


>



My drummer has this guitar. 

It literally has the most fucked up bridge I have ever seen on a guitar. I would rather spend the rest of my life setting up Floyds over having to deal with that atrocity.


----------



## Mathemagician

I remember miid-late 00’s. I played a few BC Rich V’s - all terrible. But what got me the most was their god-awful V shapes neck. It was magically both fat as hell and have huge shoulders. 

Imagine the back of a neck trying everything it can to keep your fingers from touching the fretboard. 

That’s what it was like. I was like “this is a 24 Fret V, I thought it was aimed at shredders.”

A few experiences like that with a few different brands is why I eventually settled on super-strats really. 

Why buy a “cool” or unique shape if it played like ass?


----------



## SDMFVan

I wonder who's paying Kerry King to stick around? I imagine if the checks had dried up he'd have been on to another company immediately.


----------



## bostjan

SDMFVan said:


> I wonder who's paying Kerry King to stick around? I imagine if the checks had dried up he'd have been on to another company immediately.


Well, I do believe that when King calls BCR to order a new guitar or whatever, they'd bend over backward to try to accommodate him, whereas with a nobody customer, they'd be less cordial.


----------



## possumkiller

Maybe with BC Rich going under we will see some hideous tribal graphic beveled puke stained waste of wood Kiesel flying Vs?

The kings of bad taste should collaborate on the ultimate musical abomination.


----------



## Blytheryn

SDMFVan said:


> I wonder who's paying Kerry King to stick around? I imagine if the checks had dried up he'd have been on to another company immediately.


 
I want him to go back to ESP.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Blytheryn said:


> I want him to go back to ESP.



Yup. Trade in the shitty tribal for kickass crackle finishes.


----------



## feraledge

Blytheryn said:


> I want him to go back to ESP.


As long as they can convince him that crackles are better than flames, could be pretty rad. Especially if he falls out of love with Kahlers.


----------



## feraledge

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yup. Trade in the shitty tribal for kickass crackle finishes.


Ninja'd. But just another sign that we all know the correct answer here.


----------



## Blytheryn

feraledge said:


> As long as they can convince him that crackles are better than flames, could be pretty rad. Especially if he falls out of love with Kahlers.



Dude, an NV with that banana stock in gloss black... I’d be on board with that.

Him falling out with Kahlers? I doubt that’ll happen. Has he ever used Floyds?


----------



## Blytheryn

feraledge said:


> As long as they can convince him that crackles are better than flames, could be pretty rad. Especially if he falls out of love with Kahlers.



Dude, an NV with that banana stock in gloss black... I’d be on board with that.

Him falling out with Kahlers? I doubt that’ll happen. Has he ever used Floyds?


----------



## Viginez

then he would have to change his tattoos too. impossible.


----------



## feraledge

Blytheryn said:


> Dude, an NV with that banana stock in gloss black... I’d be on board with that.
> 
> Him falling out with Kahlers? I doubt that’ll happen. Has he ever used Floyds?


Definitely not happening. He's said many times that it's really just down to him learning on a Kahler. He's said too that it's like a one or the other thing, don't have both. Some of his cheaper sigs have licensed Floyds, I'm sure he's never playing those... even though they all look about the same to me.


----------



## Andromalia

The only slayer signature I want is a period-correct pack of stickers to put on a black soloist.


----------



## possumkiller

Really? Nobody would want to see a Kiesel Kerry King V? Dude it would be the KKKV... Slayer already get enough problems over all the nazi logos and such. Maybe he should just go back to ESP. His original black burst BC Rich KKV was always my favorite. I like the body shape more than the NV and the reverse ASM headstock kicked ass. I was never a slayer fan but I always liked that guitar.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

From the ashes of one dead brand rises another.


----------



## Athor

In my 11 years of playing ive had countless guitars, mostly superstrats from the major brands. 

To this day my favorite guitar is my current Guy Marchais BCR Assassin. This thing rips and plays SO FUCKING WELL.

I want BCR to get back to their former glory SO MUCH but lets face it. They wont. Ever. 

Chinese guitars for Japanese Ibanez prices? No fucking way. They should move back production of "budget" guitars to Korea again, bring back superstrats and the eagle for more tame designs instead of full on warlocks and shit. 

Also drop KK signatures. No one wants them.


----------



## feraledge

Wait for KFK Presents tRÎbÃŁ FlæMĒź, a subsidiary of Wylde Audio.


----------



## Rosal76

Blytheryn said:


> Him falling out with Kahlers? I doubt that’ll happen. Has he ever used Floyds?



From what I've seen, just one time. B.C. Rich installed a 7-string Floyd on his first 7 string Warlock guitar (black with red tribal) because I assume Kahler didn't have a tremolo for 7 string guitars at the time. However, the second 7 string B.C.R. made for Kerry did have a 7 string Kahler.


----------



## Rosal76

Athor said:


> To this day my favorite guitar is my current Guy Marchais BCR Assassin. This thing rips and plays SO FUCKING WELL.



It is a cool looking guitar but who ever designed the Guy Marchais import signature guitar was not paying attention to what Guy was actually using. Guy was using B.C. Rich Assassin guitars. The import version they released is based off the Gunslinger design. They're both strat shapes and I can understand some people may not even care but I would think that if they're gonna release a "signature guitar" for a signed artist, at least get the correct shape for what the artist is actually using.


----------



## spudmunkey

i've always love the Mockingbird shape. My friend has a black mockingbird bass with an inline pointy headstock from the 90s, and it's fun to play. not great, not garbage, but always love the shape. Warmoth discontinued their Mockingbird-shaped bodies like 2 months before I was going to order one.


----------



## Athor

Rosal76 said:


> It is a cool looking guitar but who ever designed the Guy Marchais import signature guitar was not paying attention to what Guy was actually using. Guy was using B.C. Rich Assassin guitars. The import version they released is based off the Gunslinger design. They're both strat shapes and I can understand some people may not even care but I would think that if they're gonna release a "signature guitar" for a signed artist, at least get the correct shape for what the artist is actually using.


You have a point. I have no clue what he plays/played really. The guitar is specced like i would make my own guitar so i had to buy it. 

The only thing i would change would be to have it in a nuclear green finish with maple fretboard maybe :-D


----------



## electriceye

The company has never been the same since Bernie sold it the first time. I challenge anyone to play an original Gunslinger (if you can FIND one, of course) and tell me it isn't one of the nicest axes you ever played. The shitty Retros they sell now are garbage, not even the same spec as the real deal, which is simply lazy and dropping the ball. 

If they simply had a decently-priced USA line of REAL superstrats, like the ORIGINAL GS, ST-III and Assassins, they'd have made a killing the past few years. Chinese shit isn't going to work. I would never buy anything they sell today (which is why I started this in the first place).


----------



## Viginez

Athor said:


> You have a point. I have no clue what he plays/played really. The guitar is specced like i would make my own guitar so i had to buy it.


it's badass. especially with the kahler and the reversed headstock.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

possumkiller said:


> Maybe with BC Rich going under we will see some hideous tribal graphic beveled puke stained waste of wood Kiesel flying Vs?
> 
> The kings of bad taste should collaborate on the ultimate musical abomination.


"Abomination"? You misspelled "abortion," good sir and/or ma'am.


----------



## possumkiller

Spaced Out Ace said:


> sir and/or ma'am.


I was technically born a white male but I self identify as a transgendered African American woman who is really a white man inside. It was hell growing up in a southern christian family.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Aside from the Bich, which inspired my custom, I've always loved the Eagle, especially after seeing Neil Geraldo play one live with Pat Benatar in 1981. 
Neal Moser is a good friend of mine. After the way they treated him, I'd rather go to Neal to have one made than to buy a BCR.


----------



## zappatton2

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Aside from the Bich, which inspired my custom, I've always loved the Eagle, especially after seeing Neil Geraldo play one live with Pat Benatar in 1981.
> Neal Moser is a good friend of mine. After the way they treated him, I'd rather go to Neal to have one made than to buy a BCR.


Seconded. I ordered his first Moser 6/12 but had to let it go for unforeseen financial reasons (part of why I only own 1/6th of my original guitar collection). If I ever actually have money again, Neal is really the way to go.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

silverabyss said:


> Fernandes Japan makes a killer mocking bird copy as a sig for some jrock dude if you want a bcr without necessarily giving them money



Dude Hide was not "some jrock dude." He was the heart and soul of X Japan when they were in their prime. It was HIS idea for the crazy Punk/LA metal style get-ups which created an entire subgenre of music in Japan: Visual Kei. Sure Visual Kei AFTER X has been commercial garbage, but X Japan, in the late 80s-early 90s was awesome. 

Also, let's not forget that his last album before his death, a project called Zilch, had Paul fucking Raven in the band (Yes, THAT Paul Raven from Prong/Ministry).


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Can't be happy if a brand of my youth dies, despite the horror stories behind them.
BC Rich is a piece of history.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

The ironbird is one cool looking guitar. I wish I could tell which were the good ones and which are the cheap chinese garbage so I can find a used one over here.


----------



## Athor

electriceye said:


> The company has never been the same since Bernie sold it the first time. I challenge anyone to play an original Gunslinger (if you can FIND one, of course) and tell me it isn't one of the nicest axes you ever played. The shitty Retros they sell now are garbage, not even the same spec as the real deal, which is simply lazy and dropping the ball.
> 
> If they simply had a decently-priced USA line of REAL superstrats, like the ORIGINAL GS, ST-III and Assassins, they'd have made a killing the past few years. Chinese shit isn't going to work. I would never buy anything they sell today (which is why I started this in the first place).


AMEN!


----------



## Grindspine

Ron Estrada of Mammoth Guitars used to work in B.C. Rich USA in the mid 80's. To my knowledge, he and Moser are the only two associated with the original company who are still active.

Estrada regularly updates the B.C. Rich Custom Shop Facebook page and looks like he is putting out some great guitars. It is only a small custom shop though, so these are not en masse productions.

Everything else with the B.C. Rich name or www.bcrich.com is made in either China or World Music Instruments Corp. (Korea).

https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBCRichCustomShop/
http://www.officialbcrichcustomshop.com/
Fontana, California
(909) 904-0441

As of January 18th, 2018 the custom shop was working on a Stealth build as a public post on the above Facebook page.


----------



## Athor

Grindspine said:


> Ron Estrada of Mammoth Guitars used to work in B.C. Rich USA in the mid 80's. To my knowledge, he and Moser are the only two associated with the original company who still have any claim on it.
> 
> Estrada regularly updates the B.C. Rich Custom Shop Facebook page and looks like he is putting out some great guitars. It is only a small custom shop though, so these are not en masse productions.
> 
> Everything else with the B.C. Rich name or www.bcrich.com is made in either China or World Music Instruments Corp. (Korea) to the most recent of the information that I have.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBCRichCustomShop/
> http://www.officialbcrichcustomshop.com/
> Fontana, California
> (909) 904-0441
> 
> As of January 18th, 2018 the custom shop was working on a Stealth build as a public post on the above Facebook page.


Lots of shady things going on with the custom shop these days i hear. Saw some crazy stuff on the BCR Junkies page on facebook. USA Customs with bodys/necks made in Mexico among other things. Dont know of this is true tho. The customs on Namm -17 looked awesome.

All the BCR imports are made in China now, they stopped using World Music Korea after Praxis got the license.


----------



## electriceye

Grindspine said:


> Ron Estrada of Mammoth Guitars used to work in B.C. Rich USA in the mid 80's. To my knowledge, he and Moser are the only two associated with the original company who are still active.
> 
> Estrada regularly updates the B.C. Rich Custom Shop Facebook page and looks like he is putting out some great guitars. It is only a small custom shop though, so these are not en masse productions.
> 
> Everything else with the B.C. Rich name or www.bcrich.com is made in either China or World Music Instruments Corp. (Korea).
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBCRichCustomShop/
> http://www.officialbcrichcustomshop.com/
> Fontana, California
> (909) 904-0441
> 
> As of January 18th, 2018 the custom shop was working on a Stealth build as a public post on the above Facebook page.



The disconnect of the custom shop and the actual brand are maddening.


----------



## cardinal

Yeah, there seemed to be some weird spat involving the custom shop employees it something a while back?

I had gotten a quote for a 7-string Warlock but got scared away by what looked like disfunction. Not what I want to see when throwing a lot of money at a smaller builder.


----------



## Dawn of the Shred

I would say B.C Rich is dead! Love the Stealth and Iron Bird but man the company has just gone down hill for so many years now. I would say they can’t recover now, especially since they charge outrageous prices.


----------



## Splenetic

Wait a minute here....are you guys telling me the mk9's and mk11's are MIC???? 

hahahaah whaaaaat, they're like 1500-1800 here.


----------



## BenjaminW

KnightBrolaire said:


> BC Rich should've died in the 80/90s along with dean. Some of the worst designs ever created imo (except the eagle).


How should I feel about the Mockingbird?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Malevolent_Croatian said:


> Wait a minute here....are you guys telling me the mk9's and mk11's are MIC????
> 
> hahahaah whaaaaat, they're like 1500-1800 here.


The mk11 is 1k in America, and yes it's crafted in China.


----------



## Splenetic

Holy fuck, yeah I just double checked. Long & McQuade (one of our biggest chains) has them ranging between 1475 and 1775 + tax

That's around 1180-1420 US

LMFAO their purchasing manager gone done fucked up.


----------



## mastapimp

Malevolent_Croatian said:


> Holy fuck, yeah I just double checked. Long & McQuade (one of our biggest chains) has them ranging between 1475 and 1775 + tax
> 
> That's around 1180-1420 US
> 
> LMFAO their purchasing manager gone done fucked up.



I picked up a b-stock MK11 for $500. It had a black smudge under the finish near the nut. Came with a sticker saying something like "crafted in china, set-up in the USA". Same build quality as a schecter diamond series hellraiser (Korean).


----------



## Splenetic

At 500 that'd be totally acceptable to me, even with the smudge provided it's a solid axe. 

At 1800 however, i'm thinking they're smoking crack. I honestly thought it was like at least MIK if not MIJ hahah.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Yeah 1.5k is definitely approaching, "This better be a great Korean or even a Japanese guitar" territory.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Yeah 1.5k is definitely approaching, "This better be a great Korean or even a Japanese guitar" territory.



Except Ibanez is making MIJ guitars for 500 USD less than that now.


----------



## Splenetic

Yeah, and like daaamn high end fucking nose-in-the-air-i'm-better-than-you south korean elite gangnam district bloody perfection at that for them coins.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MatiasTolkki said:


> Except Ibanez is making MIJ guitars for 500 USD less than that now.


Eh, everything I saw from Ibby in that range was not MIJ. And the 1.5k price is CAD.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Eh, everything I saw from Ibby in that range was not MIJ. And the 1.5k price is CAD.



the RG550s. I dont know what they go for CAD, I live in Japan and only pay attention to USD or Yen.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

In the US several of the plain RGs are somewheres between $999 - $1200. I'm seeing like $1245 CAD.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> In the US several of the plain RGs are somewheres between $999 - $1200. I'm seeing like $1245 CAD.



I know for a fact the RG550s are 999 USD. Already confirmed by various sources.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MatiasTolkki said:


> I know for a fact the RG550s are 999 USD. Already confirmed by various sources.



There's also the 521, the 652, etc etc.

You can already preorder the Genesis RG550s from some tores.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's also the 521, the 652, etc etc.
> 
> You can already preorder the Genesis RG550s from some tores.



Yeah. You guys will get it 6 months after I got mine  Living in Japan ftw


----------



## Ebony

It's cool to see other people appreciating the ironbird. It's always been my favorite rich-shape, followed by the warlock and mockingbird at a shared second-place.

I also think the draco is beautiful, but perhaps a bit too much "form over function".


----------



## dr_game0ver

The draco is the stupidest guitar ever made!


----------



## Ebony

1. Types "crazy guitar designs" into google
2. Ends up finding too many stupid designs
3. Can't decide which one to post to disprove last poster
4. Decides not to upload picture


----------



## NotDonVito

I wanted a Draco when they first came out. I was also 14.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

BenjaminW said:


> How should I feel about the Mockingbird?


I don't have a problem with most of the mockingbird's design, except the upper horn. I hate that horn.


----------



## possumkiller

I used to be quite fond of BC Rich guitars. But since I've been back in the matrix I've only really been interested in more traditional types like strats and teles.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

To anyone that can help:

How do you know is a BCR is MIJ? What are the signs to look for?


----------



## possumkiller

MatiasTolkki said:


> To anyone that can help:
> 
> How do you know is a BCR is MIJ? What are the signs to look for?


Dislocated pupils. A distant stare. Regular truancy. Loss of appetite at mealtimes.


----------



## mnemonic

I always really liked the Ironbird, Stealth, and Ignitor. Though I’m not sure I’d own one even if they came back and were great, pointy guitars for me are more of a guilty pleasure. Maybe an Ignitor. 

I never liked the Warlock, it reminds me of tribal graphics and musiciansfriend catalogs when I was 15.


----------



## zappatton2

MatiasTolkki said:


> To anyone that can help:
> 
> How do you know is a BCR is MIJ? What are the signs to look for?


Seems to me I vaguely recall Japan making "R logo" BC Rich guitars after they moved production of the NJ series to Korea, I might be wrong about that. But I do know the Japan NJ guitars had a unique headstock logo, basically anything with this was MIJ:


----------



## MatiasTolkki

zappatton2 said:


> Seems to me I vaguely recall Japan making "R logo" BC Rich guitars after they moved production of the NJ series to Korea, I might be wrong about that. But I do know the Japan NJ guitars had a unique headstock logo, basically anything with this was MIJ:



Thanks dude, I'm gonna go look for some over here and see what I turn up.


----------



## Rosal76

MatiasTolkki said:


> To anyone that can help:
> 
> How do you know is a BCR is MIJ? What are the signs to look for?



I simply could not list every B.C. Rich model made in Japan but if you're able to find a U series model, it's Japan. They are really sought after among B.C. Rich collectors. If you see one, please post pictures.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

I found this one

https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop721/DS04353216/


----------



## Rosal76

MatiasTolkki said:


> I found this one
> 
> https://www.digimart.net/cat01/shop721/DS04353216/



That model is part of the Japan Monster series. They are made in Japan but I don't know how sought after they are among collectors. They are more modern than the U series.





The models below are U series, the ones that I know collectors go after. Made in Japan during the 1980's.





Don't let the "U.S. series" label mislead you. They are made in Japan. B.C. Rich has a very, very confusing naming/dating system.


----------



## Grindspine

Athor said:


> Lots of shady things going on with the custom shop these days i hear. Saw some crazy stuff on the BCR Junkies page on facebook. USA Customs with bodys/necks made in Mexico among other things. Dont know of this is true tho. The customs on Namm -17 looked awesome.
> 
> All the BCR imports are made in China now, they stopped using World Music Korea after Praxis got the license.



It does not surprise me that they're Chinese made now. I have seen tours of WMIC with B.C. Rich body blanks, but those were from a few years ago.

There was something funny happening with another guy claiming to be part of the custom shop and starting a Facebook page, that appears to have blown over. From the build quality that I have seen, Ron Estrada looks like the last bastion of USA made Rich guitars.


----------



## Athor

Grindspine said:


> It does not surprise me that they're Chinese made now. I have seen tours of WMIC with B.C. Rich body blanks, but those were from a few years ago.
> 
> There was something funny happening with another guy claiming to be part of the custom shop and starting a Facebook page, that appears to have blown over. From the build quality that I have seen, Ron Estrada looks like the last bastion of USA made Rich guitars.


Its sad. They should move production of imports back to WMIC. They were seriously good guitars. Same factory as LTD and Schecter amongst others. 

Yeah i left the BCR Junkies facebook page, they talk shit and nothing else. Seems to me like Rons guitars are great. I want one :-D


----------



## CapinCripes

Its dead as a door nail. There's endless drama around the current custom shop coming from Dave Cohen who was apparently part of the custom shop team at one point and got fired. He has never let it go and posts almost daily on the bc rich junkies facebook group how much Ron Estrada owes him. It gets old, but he did bring up some questionable practices the revived custom shop was supposedly doing while he was there, such as buying pre made blanks from an unspecified Mexican builder and when they ended up having the truss rod channels borked he drilled holes in the necks and filled the cavity around the truss rod with epoxy. I don't know how accurate that is but it is a concern. 

Then there is the import line which is independent from the custom shop and is made by praxis, who are doing everything in their power to keep the zombie brand just alive enough to say that it still exists. nothing more. 

On the subject of determining whether or not your bc rich is Japanese made, all NJ series before 1986 are Japanese made. they were made by Masan Tarada and Iida factories in japan. I have a 1985 NJ ST, and it plays smooth as butter, despite being rusted and beaten to hell and back. I would compare it favorably in many ways to my RG 550. Its a bit interesting in that its a 24.625 inch scale strat. The electronics are junk, That's the first thing. pickups are awful and it comes with a kahler flyer, but to me a kahler feels like home because it's the guitar I learned on. I switched it for a kahler pro. They also came with bc rich branded gotoh tuners, which was a surprise for me when I took them off and saw the gotoh logo on the bottom of them. The rosewood is one of the darkest nicest slabs of rosewood ive seen around, I wouldn't have such a hang up over rosewood if all rosewood was like that. Very nicely made japanese guitars, that need some help in the pickup department. They made neck thru ones as well with active circuits. 

There is also the U Series which had the blanks made in japan and they were finished in the us, I hear they are very nice but have not had any personal experience with them.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

David Cohen was the same guy who couldn't get his mouth off of Jr.'s genitals.


----------



## CapinCripes

MaxOfMetal said:


> David Cohen was the same guy who couldn't get his mouth off of Jr.'s genitals.


Yeah, I got that impression of him.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

He was the brainless dirt bag that got Jr. back involved with BCR.


----------



## CapinCripes

MaxOfMetal said:


> He was the brainless dirt bag that got Jr. back involved with BCR.


now I dislike him more than I already did.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

MaxOfMetal said:


> David Cohen was the same guy who couldn't get his mouth off of Jr.'s genitals.


Some times it's better to be ignorant and not be aware of stories XD


----------



## vilk

I was playing with my old Korean platinum series Warlock when I visited my parents over the weekend. Man, that thing has some serious upper fret access! I guess I never realized it when I was younger since the Warlock was the first guitar I ever had after a yamaha superstrat; I didn't yet have the experience of playing guitars with less than stellar upper fret access.

The guitar is actually really really nice to play, I just hate whatever kind of finish it's got on the neck. Maybe someday I will try to like sand it or something.


----------



## Mathemagician

Looking at the neckthrough BC Rich’s this thread prompted me to check out, it really seems like they knew what they were doing in that regard. All the neckthroughs didn’t get “thick” until the body. 

I was like “damn I want that cheapo guitar right now. No I don’t I wanna do home repairs let’s put this wallet away”. Lol.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

I looked again at their site this weekend, and they've stripped back loads of body offerings. Seems based solely on Warlocks & Warbeasts with some Mockingbirds here & there. Not one Bich, not one Eagle.
Sad, truly sad.


----------



## Andromalia

Well, if I were to buy BC Rich today, the lineup I'd start with would be warlocks and mocking birds only to begin with. Biches and other more extreme shapes have likely a pretty small sales volume.


----------



## iamaom

Why don't they re-issue a mid-range ($400) and high-range ($1k) Stealth? Plenty of people missed the last run (over a decade ago now I think) and it'd be some easy cash.


----------



## electriceye

iamaom said:


> Why don't they re-issue a mid-range ($400) and high-range ($1k) Stealth? Plenty of people missed the last run (over a decade ago now I think) and it'd be some easy cash.



Someone with $ and an actual passion for the brand needs to take it completely over for that to happen. As of now, the Ironbird, Stealth and Eagle are no longer made (unless you consider CS).


----------



## Rosal76

electriceye said:


> As of now, the Ironbird, Stealth and Eagle are no longer made (unless you consider CS).



I have no problem with that. I see the glass as half full. At least we have the option of getting a Ironbird, Stealth and Eagle than no option. I completely understand that not everyone can afford a expensive, U.S. custom shop model but at least you know that you can get one if you did have the money.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

iamaom said:


> Why don't they re-issue a mid-range ($400) and high-range ($1k) Stealth? Plenty of people missed the last run (over a decade ago now I think) and it'd be some easy cash.



Only if they're better than the last run. 

I'm a HUGE Death/Chuck fan and I searched the better part of two years trying to find a decent tribute Stealth. After almost two dozen guitars, I couldn't find one worth a damn.


----------



## Athor

Anyone dealt with the current Custom Shop?


----------



## electriceye

MaxOfMetal said:


> Only if they're better than the last run.
> 
> I'm a HUGE Death/Chuck fan and I searched the better part of two years trying to find a decent tribute Stealth. After almost two dozen guitars, I couldn't find one worth a damn.



Sounds like a challenge to smaller builders...


----------



## gunch

Aren't a huge number of OG USA BCRs still in Ed Roman's shop/estate/whatever?


----------



## possumkiller

silverabyss said:


> Ed Roman



Isn't that the guy with the huge problem with the PRS neck heel?


----------



## Mathemagician

silverabyss said:


> Aren't a huge number of OG USA BCRs still in Ed Roman's shop/estate/whatever?




HOW?! How did he ever get to be as big as he was/such a huge storefront? They carried so much inventory yet he literally had a side business making copies of guitars, and would constantly post diatribes insulting the countries where most of his guitars were made. Just.....how?


----------



## CapinCripes

silverabyss said:


> Aren't a huge number of OG USA BCRs still in Ed Roman's shop/estate/whatever?


No, those are ones he counterfeited. He apparently bought a small amount of blanks from class axe at one point and finished them but he was well known for making a large number of forgeries, to the point it's a potential problem if your trying to find unique USA riches.


----------



## Krucifixtion

KnightBrolaire said:


> Yeah, etherial is almost comparable with moser/minarik for most uncomfortable looking guitars ever. All of them have the pointy guitar syndrome where n=number of pointy parts a guitar should have and they're all at n^2 or n^3 in etherial's case.
> 
> I do like that one actually, same with this one:



That's actually my best friends guitar, but he no longer owns it. Was his first custom made guitar, but in the end there was things he didn't like about it any more and sold it years ago. There's a long story involving the headstock, but I won't get into that.


----------



## gunch

CapinCripes said:


> No, those are ones he counterfeited. He apparently bought a small amount of blanks from class axe at one point and finished them but he was well known for making a large number of forgeries, to the point it's a potential problem if your trying to find unique USA riches.



OH yeah that's right, I knew he was causing a problem somehow but couldn't remember it straight. 

In any direction getting a good USA or JP BCR is utter hell if it's a rare shape like Eagle or Seagull 

The WMI Eagle PRO-X is cool but Bigsby


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

CapinCripes said:


> No, those are ones he counterfeited. He apparently bought a small amount of blanks from class axe at one point and finished them but he was well known for making a large number of forgeries, to the point it's a potential problem if your trying to find unique USA riches.


Such as the VVV forgeries. Surprised as hell that Vinnie didn't 18 lawsuits against him for it.


----------



## Andromalia

Mathemagician said:


> HOW?! How did he ever get to be as big as he was/such a huge storefront? They carried so much inventory yet he literally had a side business making copies of guitars, and would constantly post diatribes insulting the countries where most of his guitars were made. Just.....how?



Well, some con artists *are* successful and talented.


----------



## electriceye

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Such as the VVV forgeries. Surprised as hell that Vinnie didn't 18 lawsuits against him for it.



If you listened to VV's interview with Eddie Trunk this week, he seems like a very peaceful, docile person who doesn't appear to like any sort of conflict. So, I'm not that surprised.


----------



## p4vl

Ever since seeing zombie Kerry King wielding a Warlock on the cover of Live Undead, I've dreamed of owning an old black Warlock Deluxe (the guy from Nails has one, too. I'm really jealous). Too bad the early Warlock models mostly had tremolos. Buying a used guitar with a Kahler, no matter how cheap, is like buying a used car that gives you an STD.

Handmade Rich's made in the late 70's through the first years of the 80's are supposed to be extremely nice guitars (if they've been cared for). Anything later than that (except custom shop stuff) is either crap or looks like a battle axe from Skyrim.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

electriceye said:


> If you listened to VV's interview with Eddie Trunk this week, he seems like a very peaceful, docile person who doesn't appear to like any sort of conflict. So, I'm not that surprised.


On some places, they think that Vinnie was lying or exaggerating for sympathy, particularly because he played the victim a lot. And he didn't mind suing -- or attempting to, anyways -- KISS numerous times.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

p4vl said:


> Ever since seeing zombie Kerry King wielding a Warlock on the cover of Live Undead, I've dreamed of owning an old black Warlock Deluxe (the guy from Nails has one, too. I'm really jealous). Too bad the early Warlock models mostly had tremolos. Buying a used guitar with a Kahler, no matter how cheap, is like buying a used car that gives you an STD.
> 
> Handmade Rich's made in the late 70's through the first years of the 80's are supposed to be extremely nice guitars (if they've been cared for). Anything later than that (except custom shop stuff) is either crap or looks like a battle axe from Skyrim.



The best thing about buying a guitar with a Kahler is you can swap out the trem for a fixed variant with zero drilling involved. They slot right in.


----------



## Athor

BC Rich just announced they will not be attending NAMM.

https://www.facebook.com/BCRichGuit...07882511013/10155790450901014/?type=3&theater


----------



## p4vl

Slayer's next US tour will be their last: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sl...-behemoth-testament-blabbermouth-net-presale/

Without Kerry King, BC Rich is doomed.


----------



## Athor

p4vl said:


> Slayer's next US tour will be their last: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sl...-behemoth-testament-blabbermouth-net-presale/
> 
> Without Kerry King, BC Rich is doomed.


Yeah this is bad. Unless the major announcement is that Hanser is taking BCR back and making the lineup good again. But what are the odds?

We're gonna have to stick with fucking PRAXIS and 2000 dollar china guitars for years to come...


----------



## p4vl

If the BC Rich brand goes out of bidness, does that mean other luthiers can make pretty much direct custom copies of their shapes? The stuff that Neal Moser does looks well made but the just look completely wrong. 

If BCR goes tits up, I could get a copy of BC Rich Warlock Deluxe but with the '*R*' logo modified to a '*P*', as my name is *P*aul.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

p4vl said:


> If the BC Rich brand goes out of bidness, does that mean other luthiers can make pretty much direct custom copies of their shapes? The stuff that Neal Moser does looks well made but the just look completely wrong.
> 
> If BCR goes tits up, I could get a copy of BC Rich Warlock Deluxe but with the '*R*' logo modified to a '*P*', as my name is *P*aul.



Not likely. 

Brands like this don't die really. They just get endlessly purchased and rolled into something else. As long as someone ownes the BCR name and IP, you're not going to be able to make a copy.

That said, you could probably find a small builder willing to make you anything. I doubt they'd do anything legally as it just wouldn't be worth it on an individual basis.


----------



## Athor

p4vl said:


> If the BC Rich brand goes out of bidness, does that mean other luthiers can make pretty much direct custom copies of their shapes? The stuff that Neal Moser does looks well made but the just look completely wrong.
> 
> If BCR goes tits up, I could get a copy of BC Rich Warlock Deluxe but with the '*R*' logo modified to a '*P*', as my name is *P*aul.


RAN Custom Guitars in Poland have made some stunning Warlocks..


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I bet BCR will end up like MusicYo era Kramer or whatever it was called. Eventually it might get sorted out with some real money put behind it, but I bet it'll have some really, really awful years ahead post Kerry King.

The real question is, who would buy it as a subsidiary?


----------



## Athor

Hanser should just get rid of Praxis and run it themselves again.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I bet BCR will end up like MusicYo era Kramer or whatever it was called. Eventually it might get sorted out with some real money put behind it, but I bet it'll have some really, really awful years ahead post Kerry King.
> 
> The real question is, who would buy it as a subsidiary?



It's already been awful the last few years at Praxis. 

The worse they do the lower the value. So as time goes on more and more organizations will be able to buy the rights. 

I believe Hanser still ownes them outright, so they could technically take over again, not that its would be an upgrade.


----------



## Athor

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's already been awful the last few years at Praxis.
> 
> The worse they do the lower the value. So as time goes on more and more organizations will be able to buy the rights.
> 
> I believe Hanser still ownes them outright, so they could technically take over again, not that its would be an upgrade.


Thats a point. Hanser still owns it but they have licensed it to Praxis. 

Looking at 2008-2014 catalogues its not all that bad really. Lots of variation, quality that resonates with the prices and they kinda had a decent amount of artists on their roster to for a while.


----------



## electriceye

Athor said:


> BC Rich just announced they will not be attending NAMM.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/BCRichGuit...07882511013/10155790450901014/?type=3&theater



Shocking..


----------



## electriceye

Athor said:


> BC Rich just announced they will not be attending NAMM.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/BCRichGuit...07882511013/10155790450901014/?type=3&theater



Hmm. I wonder if the big announcement is that they're being sold/re-licensed elsewhere again.


----------



## Athor

electriceye said:


> Hmm. I wonder if the big announcement is that they're being sold/re-licensed elsewhere again.


I really hope so. Someone with a passion for the brand needs to take over.


----------



## ArtDecade

Ola just bought BC Rich.


----------



## watson503

"Joining other major brands, B.C. Rich will not be displaying at the NAMM show this week. Stay tuned for a major announcement coming soon!!!" - What a joke..."Joining other major brands..." - then they try and hook those who continue to buy-into their crap with this "major announcement coming soon" b.s. The only good news would be as others have said, that Praxis is out, but they've got a few more years on their 5-year contract - then again, I haven't seen that pos Brian X. Martin post anything since this latest news, so who knows.


----------



## Loomer

ArtDecade said:


> Ola just bought BC Rich.


----------



## ArtDecade

You don't need to cite jokes, mate.


----------



## Ebony

Inb4 new Kerry King "Farewell tour" Signature V.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Ebony said:


> Inb4 new Kerry King "Farewell tour" Signature V.


and reissued warbeast


----------



## Ebony

KnightBrolaire said:


> and reissued warbeast



With kahler, tribal/blood splatter combo finish, assembled and signed by BRJ and msrp at only 12999$. I can barely contain myself.


----------



## pastanator

When they posted about not going to NAMM on Facebook somebody commented that they should "give the company to Jr and get some credibility back"

Thought you guys would enjoy that one


----------



## watson503

pastanator said:


> When they posted about not going to NAMM on Facebook somebody commented that they should "give the company to Jr and get some credibility back"
> 
> Thought you guys would enjoy that one


I saw that lmfao I remember a while back Dave Cohen posted several times in the Junkies group "They even stole Jr's underwear while he was in the hospital! It's not his fault!" - and of course, people bought-into it and still support that pos.


----------



## electriceye

MaxOfMetal said:


> The best thing about buying a guitar with a Kahler is you can swap out the trem for a fixed variant with zero drilling involved. They slot right in.





pastanator said:


> When they posted about not going to NAMM on Facebook somebody commented that they should "give the company to Jr and get some credibility back"
> 
> Thought you guys would enjoy that one



If I had the money and the know-how, I'd do it myself. Besides a Hondo, BCRs were my first real guitars, starting with an NJ Mock back around '83 or '84. (I stupidly sold it in '88, but found another a few years ago.) I still have a crackle ST-III that I custom ordered in '86. I have an original Gunslinger. A Custom Shop Mock from 2004. You won't find many, bigger fanboys than me. But I hate that I have such an affinity for a brand that really died a long time ago. I'd trade owning the company over my IT gig in a split second.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Ebony said:


> Inb4 new Kerry King "Farewell tour" Signature V.



Now is the time to switch to ESP. They eat that anniversary stuff up.


----------



## oracles

Athor said:


> RAN Custom Guitars in Poland have made some stunning Warlocks..



They absolutely won't do it though, they flat out refuse shapes that aren't their own, or designed with them. Copies ceased completely as of 2015.


----------



## Athor

oracles said:


> They absolutely won't do it though, they flat out refuse shapes that aren't their own, or designed with them. Copies ceased completely as of 2015.


Oh. Didnt know that. Thanks for the info


----------



## mnemonic

How hard is it really to run a brand like BC Rich? Take some designs from the 80’s without changing them, contract WMI to build them just like everyone else does, and spend the rest of your money on marketing.

Done deal.


----------



## cardinal

mnemonic said:


> How hard is it really to run a brand like BC Rich? Take some designs from the 80’s without changing them, contract WMI to build them just like everyone else does, and spend the rest of your money on marketing.
> 
> Done deal.



It does seem easy enough to make some money on it, but it’s a question of how much money. 

Reminds me of the current Toys R Us bankruptcy. From what I understand, their operations make money selling toys. The problem is that they don’t make enough to cover the costs of the loans used to buy the company. 

So you can have a perfectly functional business hit the skids because of stupid.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Loomer said:


>




Off topic, but it makes me happy seeing Hbomb here.


----------



## Athor

mnemonic said:


> How hard is it really to run a brand like BC Rich? Take some designs from the 80’s without changing them, contract WMI to build them just like everyone else does, and spend the rest of your money on marketing.
> 
> Done deal.


They did just this a few years ago and they seemed to do rather good. Lots of models and even artist models. Then they just got rid of it all and now this? Makes no sense to me.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

cardinal said:


> It does seem easy enough to make some money on it, but it’s a question of how much money.
> 
> Reminds me of the current Toys R Us bankruptcy. From what I understand, their operations make money selling toys. The problem is that they don’t make enough to cover the costs of the loans used to buy the company.
> 
> So you can have a perfectly functional business hit the skids because of stupid.



Also reminds me of WCW circa 1996 - 1998.

They made a FUCKTON of money because they were the top-selling wrestling promotion.

But they were a money sink due to the over-the-top paychecks to their top-tier talent and other frivolous spending.

And there's ESPN. They make a lot of money with their subscription model. But the licenses to air games bites them in the ass.


----------



## NickLAudio

Did somebody say wrestling brotheerrrrrr


----------



## possumkiller

Yeah farewell anniversary one of a kind special edition hand built by BRJ KKV run. There are only 10 preorder slots available unless people just keep on ordering. 500$ USD gets you on the list. You can order and change any spec you want. You can sell your slot to someone else and they can change specs. They will be completed in six months. The 6 is $1200. The 7 is $1300 and the 8 is $1400 FOR A USA PREMIUM HANDCRAFTED INSTRUMENT. Upcharge for 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15 strings as well as multiscale. DON'T WAIT! ORDER NOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Also reminds me of WCW circa 1996 - 1998.
> 
> They made a FUCKTON of money because they were the top-selling wrestling promotion.
> 
> But they were a money sink due to the over-the-top paychecks to their top-tier talent and other frivolous spending.
> 
> And there's ESPN. They make a lot of money with their subscription model. But the licenses to air games bites them in the ass.


Don't forget: Guaranteed contracts, Sting clause or whatever it was called [ie, if Sting made so much, others had to be bumped up as well], people getting money for not even showing up to work, etc. WCW was bound to fail.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

NickLAudio said:


> Did somebody say wrestling brotheerrrrrr


WELL YA KNOW MEAN GENE, I GET A CALL THIS MORNING ABOUT BC RICH BASSES BROTHER, AND THE GUY ON THE OTHER END SAYS ARE THEY GOIN OUTTA BUSINESS? WELL I TELL THIS MARK THAT WHEN I GET THE STRAP BACK, I'M GONNA PUT THE HURT ON THE GUITAR BUSINESS, BROTHER. I'M GONNA PUT THE BIG BOOT AND ATOMIC LEG DROP TO EM BROTHER. WHATCHA GONNA DO WHEN BC RICH BASSES AND HULKAMANIA RUNS WILD ON YOUUUUU!? -FLEXES AND POSES-


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

possumkiller said:


> Yeah farewell anniversary one of a kind special edition hand built by BRJ KKV run. There are only 10 preorder slots available unless people just keep on ordering. 500$ USD gets you on the list. You can order and change any spec you want. You can sell your slot to someone else and they can change specs. They will be completed in six months. The 6 is $1200. The 7 is $1300 and the 8 is $1400 FOR A USA PREMIUM HANDCRAFTED INSTRUMENT. Upcharge for 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and 15 strings as well as multiscale. DON'T WAIT! ORDER NOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!


THIS GETS THE 24" PYTHONS FLEXIN AND REPS KEEP GETTIN STEPPED UP. CAN'T WAIT FOR THE $1700 BERNIE RICO JR KKV SUPER LIMITED SPECIAL ULTRA DELUXE RUN, BROTHER!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

RANDOM AF but I think Macho Man Randy Savage would've been a MUCH better 3rd guy in the NWO than Hogan did. From what I understand, Hall and Nash had to keep telling him, "Dude, it's not '2sweet', it's 'tooo.... sweeeeettttt'." Shit like that. I think Macho Man would've fit into that role much easier than Hogan, because Macho Man was a great heel naturally -- great face too -- but Hogan had to work at it a lot. Then again, after the initial "fuck you, Hogan" reaction, it didn't take long to be fan favorites, so whatever.


----------



## Forkface

welp, this thread went... somewhere


----------



## Loomer

ArtDecade said:


> You don't need to cite jokes, mate.



I know, but in my heart of hearts I was actually hoping there was something to it.


----------



## cardinal

Forkface said:


> welp, this thread went... somewhere



Things are looking up in here!


----------



## Athor

Still no word from BCR what this big announcement is.. Everyones releasing cool stuff, even Marshall had something NEW and COOL this year. 

Im gonna stop caring and just buy myself a vintage ESP Horizon.


----------



## cwhitey2

Athor said:


> Still no word from BCR what this big announcement is.. Everyones releasing cool stuff, even Marshall had something NEW and COOL this year.
> 
> Im gonna stop caring and just buy myself a vintage ESP Horizon.


The big announcement is they are done!


----------



## Athor

cwhitey2 said:


> The big announcement is they are done!


Haha most likely


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Athor said:


> even Marshall had something NEW and COOL this year.


Not that I can afford it most likely, but what'd they announce?


----------



## cardinal

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Not that I can afford it most likely, but what'd they announce?



New DSL and the “Origin” (single channel but lots of switches and such for gain levels). More than I expected, but still a head scratcher. They easily could release a 2203x with a simple Jose mod and it would blow people’s minds.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

cardinal said:


> New DSL and the “Origin” (single channel but lots of switches and such for gain levels). More than I expected, but still a head scratcher. They easily could release a 2203x with a simple Jose mod and it would blow people’s minds.


It's interesting, but the video I saw on YouTube doesn't show "lots of switches" and it seems pretty vintage in terms of gain levels.


----------



## cardinal

Spaced Out Ace said:


> It's interesting, but the video I saw on YouTube doesn't show "lots of switches" and it seems pretty vintage in terms of gain levels.



Oops, you’re right. I scanned the press release two quick. I guess it’s two inputs, multiple power levels. I thought it was saying there was like a “decade” switch for gain levels, but I don’t think so.


----------



## eggy in a bready

Spaced Out Ace said:


> RANDOM AF but I think Macho Man Randy Savage would've been a MUCH better 3rd guy in the NWO than Hogan did. From what I understand, Hall and Nash had to keep telling him, "Dude, it's not '2sweet', it's 'tooo.... sweeeeettttt'." Shit like that. I think Macho Man would've fit into that role much easier than Hogan, because Macho Man was a great heel naturally -- great face too -- but Hogan had to work at it a lot. Then again, after the initial "fuck you, Hogan" reaction, it didn't take long to be fan favorites, so whatever.


well i mean, macho did eventually join the nwo...

i think it would have been cool if they had him split off and start his own faction to fight hogan's nwo, instead of the million other factions that turned the whole storyline into a clusterfuck.

fuck vince russo, basically


----------



## exo

mnemonic said:


> How hard is it really to run a brand like BC Rich? Take some designs from the 80’s without changing them, contract WMI to build them just like everyone else does, and spend the rest of your money on marketing.
> 
> Done deal.



They actually TOTALLY did this before the Praxis deal. My Mockingbird ST and Warlock Plus FR mentioned several pages back are from this era, and I love them to death. They're my favorite 6 strings.

The biggest problem BC Rich has is that you mention their name, and all anyone thinks of is the "Bronze Series" entry level shitplanks of the early/mid 2000's. Worse rep that the Indian made entry level Jacksons from rougly the same time period. Couple that with the idea that "Chinese guitars" aren't worth a grand or more in most people's minds, and they haven't just shot themselves in the foot, they've done it with a 10 gauge shotgun......


----------



## beerandbeards

When you’re NWO... you’re NWO for life


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

beerandbeards said:


> When you’re NWO... you’re NWO for life


Tooo... SWEEEEETTTTT.


----------



## Athor

Spaced Out Ace said:


> It's interesting, but the video I saw on YouTube doesn't show "lots of switches" and it seems pretty vintage in terms of gain levels.


Probably a good amp to use a RAT pedal with :-D


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Athor said:


> Probably a good amp to use a RAT pedal with :-D


Good point.


----------



## Dawn of the Shred

If B.C. Rich would do more shit like these they would actually be relevant again.


----------



## Athor

Yeap.. I just dont get why they dont make good stuff again. Its like Praxis just sits on the damn license refusing to do anything just to be a fucking pain in the ass for the fans


----------



## Rosal76

Dawn of the Shred said:


> If B.C. Rich would do more shit like these they would actually be relevant again.



Nice!!!

Who owns the V?


----------



## Dawn of the Shred

Rosal76 said:


> Nice!!!
> 
> Who owns the V?



Not sure, but man it’s freaking awesome!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Rosal76 said:


> Nice!!!
> 
> Who owns the V?



Kyle from Vitriol. It was a blank KKV that was owned by Dan Lawrence (owner of GMP Guitars and DRL Graphics) that he bought. He also had Dan paint it to look like Kerry's ESP V's.


----------



## Dawn of the Shred

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Kyle from Vitriol. It was a blank KKV that was owned by Dan Lawrence (owner of GMP Guitars and DRL Graphics) that he bought. He also had Dan paint it to look like Kerry's ESP V's.



B.C. Rich needs to take notes from him! That’s the way a V should look from them.


----------



## Athor

Just noticed a comment from Brian on facebook regarding the announcement. 

"The announcement will be made when the time is right. There is no timeline for it, so everybody needs to sit tight. A wizard is never early or late. He arrives at precisely the right time..." 

I bet they have nothing planned really and just had to say something since they pulled out from NAMM last minute.


----------



## Dawn of the Shred

Athor said:


> Just noticed a comment from Brian on facebook regarding the announcement.
> 
> "The announcement will be made when the time is right. There is no timeline for it, so everybody needs to sit tight. A wizard is never early or late. He arrives at precisely the right time..."
> 
> I bet they have nothing planned really and just had to say something since they pulled out from NAMM last minute.




They absolutely have nothing planned. Man that statement is so cringeworthy


----------



## possumkiller

I would totally deal with the horrendous neck dive for that Ironbird 7... 

I bet a set of Trucknutz hanging from the rear strap button would balance it out...


----------



## Viginez

neckthru ironbird w/ reversed headstock
instant buy


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Does Brian/Praxis still do work for Sterling? It's like the complete opposite on the SBMM front; They're at NAMM and knocking it out the park (dare I say out-doing EBMM) while BC Rich is... not.


----------



## Athor

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Does Brian/Praxis still do work for Sterling? It's like the complete opposite on the SBMM front; They're at NAMM and knocking it out the park (dare I say out-doing EBMM) while BC Rich is... not.


Dont know about that really. Cant imagine they do tho since SBMM is toally on a roll these days. 

And the only way Praxis makes things roll is downhill soooo...


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Dawn of the Shred said:


> They absolutely have nothing planned. Man that statement is so cringeworthy


I'm not even a fan and that gives me ZERO confidence in the brand going forward, and I have zero confidence in them to begin with.


----------



## Mathemagician

If they would do an iron it’s like that, even Indonesian or better, I would take all the time required to find a quality one.


----------



## Athor

Mathemagician said:


> If they would do an iron it’s like that, even Indonesian or better, I would take all the time required to find a quality one.


They need to get back in touch with world musical instruments korea. Simple as that. good prices, awesome quality.


----------



## Mathemagician

Yeah but then their margins would drop significantly from their MIC factory. 

Honestly, if their meager selection is selling enough volume it might be “profitable enough” for them to not bother with actively trying to revamp the brand. 

Or they’re just running out their contract and are hoping to make it passed NAMM so that everyone forgets they’ve done nothing.


----------



## Athor

Mathemagician said:


> Yeah but then their margins would drop significantly from their MIC factory.
> 
> Honestly, if their meager selection is selling enough volume it might be “profitable enough” for them to not bother with actively trying to revamp the brand.
> 
> Or they’re just running out their contract and are hoping to make it passed NAMM so that everyone forgets they’ve done nothing.


Thats a point, and probably the reality.


----------



## watson503

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Does Brian/Praxis still do work for Sterling? It's like the complete opposite on the SBMM front; They're at NAMM and knocking it out the park (dare I say out-doing EBMM) while BC Rich is... not.


The "wizard" does still work for Sterling and is at NAMM which makes the whole thing all the more ridiculous lmfao


----------



## cardinal

Unless the Wizard is BRJ... I don’t know if that’s what he meant.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I think one or two things are going on:

1) They're running out a contract. It would explain why they're not putting any effort in.

2) BCR as an entity soured contacts with overseas manufacturers. I could see them, with no money, failing to pay vendors and thus forcing them to stay away from the better factories.


----------



## watson503

cardinal said:


> Unless the Wizard is BRJ... I don’t know if that’s what he meant.


The self-proclaimed Wizard is Brian X. Martin, he works for Praxis/Sterling/BC Rich.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

watson503 said:


> The self-proclaimed Wizard is Brian X. Martin, he works for Praxis/Sterling/BC Rich.



Yup. He's pimping the fuck out of SBMM but is slowly giving the death kiss to BCR.


----------



## Mathemagician

Well if he does well enough for SBMM, they might offer him a more lucrative and stable job directly. It’s not necessarily a bad career plan to focus on where you see growth opportunities.

Those sterlings are fucking quality too. Don’t let the Indo thing fool you. Block the trems and you’re good to go. (They’re not “bad” they’re just not stainless steel Floyd’s/music man bridges).


----------



## Marked Man

possumkiller said:


> Wow fuck that. BCR just needs to stop. Im really surprised that there are enough slayer fanboys playing cheap guitars to keep them in business so long.



Well, almost anyone's mom can cough up $179.


----------



## possumkiller

So I've been scouring the internet to no avail. Has anyone seen the late 90s BC Rich magazine ad when he first came back to BC Rich from ESP? It had the transparent black burst flame top KKV model with reverse ASM headstock. Does a picture of that guitar still exist anywhere?


----------



## CapinCripes

possumkiller said:


> So I've been scouring the internet to no avail. Has anyone seen the late 90s BC Rich magazine ad when he first came back to BC Rich from ESP? It had the transparent black burst flame top KKV model with reverse ASM headstock. Does a picture of that guitar still exist anywhere?


I know the one your talking about but for the life of me can't find it. I have a catalog page with the picture in question with no text though albeit rather small.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Why does KK look like NWO Macho Man?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Why does KK look like NWO Macho Man?


Ohhhh yeahhhh! DIG IT!


----------



## Marked Man

CapinCripes said:


> I know the one your talking about but for the life of me can't find it. I have a catalog page with the picture in question with no text though albeit rather small.



Well that was before 19th Century Lumberjack Beards were all the rage. If he was a foot taller, he could have absolutely gone to the WWE if Slayer fell through!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Marked Man said:


> Well that was before 19th Century Lumberjack Beards were all the rage. If he was a foot taller, he could have absolutely gone to the WWE if Slayer fell through!


Hell, Zakk Wylde still could.

EDIT: In fact, I'm surprised he hasn't.


----------



## possumkiller

Ah yeah that's the one. I spent many high school days drooling over that guitar instead of doing school work.


----------



## electriceye

CapinCripes said:


> I know the one your talking about but for the life of me can't find it. I have a catalog page with the picture in question with no text though albeit rather small.



I absolutely LOVED those original KKV with the reverse ASM-style headstock. It's amazing to me you NEVER see any of these out in the wild.


----------



## CapinCripes

electriceye said:


> I absolutely LOVED those original KKV with the reverse ASM-style headstock. It's amazing to me you NEVER see any of these out in the wild.


You don't see very many USA riches in general out in the wild. People that have them hold on to them.


----------



## possumkiller

electriceye said:


> I absolutely LOVED those original KKV with the reverse ASM-style headstock. It's amazing to me you NEVER see any of these out in the wild.


I think that was probably the only one ever made.


----------



## CapinCripes

possumkiller said:


> I think that was probably the only one ever made.


Second page I posted has a price in JPY so i would assume they were order able, but extremely expensive. This is what I drool over, although Id get it in a crackle like his esp. And im not even into Kerry's playing.


----------



## Edika

CapinCripes said:


> Second page I posted has a price in JPY so i would assume they were order able, but extremely expensive. This is what I drool over, although Id get it in a crackle like his esp. And im not even into Kerry's playing.



So many switches on that V for KK's versatile playing style and plethora of sounds he uses.

But BC Rich V with the reverse or even inline ASM headstock and I'm interested.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Oh wow. I totally forgot that Kerry King wasn't always a lame, bald putz in sunglasses with godawful tribal tattoos.


----------



## Edika

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Oh wow. I totally forgot that Kerry King wasn't always a lame, bald putz in sunglasses with godawful tribal tattoos.



I think loosing his hair cost him a bit more than it should.


----------



## bracky

Final tour this summer. Already scored my tickets.


----------



## cwhitey2

Edika said:


> I think loosing his hair cost him a bit more than it should.


----------



## Vhyle

I was a BC Rich fanb0i for over a decade... until I was won over by Jacksons.

Anyway, seeing BC Rich in such peril today does hurt me a little bit, since I played them for so long and carried such an admiration for quite a few of their instruments. I've sold off all but one of my BCR guitars. I kept my Platinum series Beast, since I've owned it for so long. It has sentimental value, and honestly it's been a damn good guitar.

But now, seeing the virtually nonexistent level of customer regard that the company operates on today, I can't say that I will miss them if they disappear. They have been shooting themselves in the foot for a while now, and they simply refuse to listen to the market. They churn out more junk than non-junk these days, charge WAY too much for them, and ignore market pleas for certain models (I'm looking at you, poor defenseless Ironbird!). I caught a lot of flak over the years for playing BCRs, and I have done my share defending them, but I just can't do it anymore. Oh well, I guess.

I still have a soft spot for early NJs, because they are absolutely solid guitars.

I've bought several Jacksons since then, and their guitars have won me over completely at this point, so I can't say that I will really miss BCR.

One last thing - I love Slayer, but come on, Kerry is... well, Kerry. Once Slayer calls it quits, I'd like to see what happens to his model.


----------



## Athor

Vhyle said:


> I was a BC Rich fanb0i for over a decade... until I was won over by Jacksons.
> 
> Anyway, seeing BC Rich in such peril today does hurt me a little bit, since I played them for so long and carried such an admiration for quite a few of their instruments. I've sold off all but one of my BCR guitars. I kept my Platinum series Beast, since I've owned it for so long. It has sentimental value, and honestly it's been a damn good guitar.
> 
> But now, seeing the virtually nonexistent level of customer regard that the company operates on today, I can't say that I will miss them if they disappear. They have been shooting themselves in the foot for a while now, and they simply refuse to listen to the market. They churn out more junk than non-junk these days, charge WAY too much for them, and ignore market pleas for certain models (I'm looking at you, poor defenseless Ironbird!). I caught a lot of flak over the years for playing BCRs, and I have done my share defending them, but I just can't do it anymore. Oh well, I guess.
> 
> I still have a soft spot for early NJs, because they are absolutely solid guitars.
> 
> I've bought several Jacksons since then, and their guitars have won me over completely at this point, so I can't say that I will really miss BCR.
> 
> One last thing - I love Slayer, but come on, Kerry is... well, Kerry. Once Slayer calls it quits, I'd like to see what happens to his model.


Brian said that Slayer calling it quits wont have any effect on the KK models. Not that anyone cares, the models they have now are all lame ass low cost warlock that he dont even play. 

I kinda hope that BCR dissapears and the custom shop is shut down so King goes back to ESP and makes a new speed v with that banana headstock again. Those are fucking killer.

Theres actually a ESP Kerry King for sale in Norway now, first one ive seen. Not that expensive either but its beaten to hell and back


----------



## Rosal76

possumkiller said:


> So I've been scouring the internet to no avail. Has anyone seen the late 90s BC Rich magazine ad when he first came back to BC Rich from ESP? It had the transparent black burst flame top KKV model with reverse ASM headstock. Does a picture of that guitar still exist anywhere?



I have that picture in a 1998 Guitar World issue that I have but unfortunately, I don't own a camera. I can't remember word for word on what the ad said but it was something along the lines of, "B.C. Rich is back" and "Hear Kerry Kings's KKV on the new Slayer album, Diabolus in Musica". Something like that. It's the same photo that's in the B.C.R. catalogs, though, without the advertisement for the Slayer album.


----------



## Rosal76

possumkiller said:


> I think that was probably the only one ever made.



I've seen about 3-4 of them for the general public. The one below was for a store in Fort Lauderdale, FL.


----------



## possumkiller

Rosal76 said:


> I've seen about 3-4 of them for the general public. The one below was for a store in Fort Lauderdale, FL.


That and the 70s Gibson Vs are my favorite V guitars ever. I like this body style better than the ESP NV style.


----------



## cardinal

Man I remember dreaming about one of those way back when.


----------



## Rosal76

possumkiller said:


> That and the 70s Gibson Vs are my favorite V guitars ever. I like this body style better than the ESP NV style.



It is a awesome looking guitar. I like Kerry's red one a little better because you can see the flame maple a little better, under the right lighting conditions, than on the black one.












One of the forum members on the B.C. Rich community fansite had one, a red U.S. custom shop KKV in red. Exactly like the one Kerry's holding in the picture above and he (the forum member) was selling it. I was like, "dude, you know how many people want that guitar and how many there are in existence!!!" He was like, "it's an awesome guitar but there is always, always something better out there". I was like, "Damn. I guess so". LOL.


----------



## Marked Man

Sad state of affairs for a once great company.

I have no doubt they could easily sell MIK B.C. Rich guitars modeled after their 70s/80s classics with street prices starting in the $1000 range so they could directly compete with LTD. This should be their bread and butter rather than selling what amount to child's toys for <$200. 

The USA Custom models have always been expensive birds, but now they are obscene. I had a chance to buy a premo fully loaded USA Eagle Supreme for $2K about 15 years ago, which is still a chunk, but was a much bigger one to me back then. The same guitar today would have a starting price more like $4.5-$5K, and there would be a long, hard road to get it into the upper $3Ks at best. Too much for a guitar in my book, especially when E-II exists.


----------



## Marked Man

Rosal76 said:


> It is a awesome looking guitar. I like Kerry's red one a little better because you can see the flame maple a little better, under the right lighting conditions, than on the black one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the forum members on the B.C. Rich community fansite had one, a red U.S. custom shop KKV in red. Exactly like the one Kerry's holding in the picture above and he (the forum member) was selling it. I was like, "dude, you know how many people want that guitar and how many there are in existence!!!" He was like, "it's an awesome guitar but there is always, always something better out there". I was like, "Damn. I guess so". LOL.



Generally, I prefer Hanneman's ESPs, but there are a few Kings that are great. I've always loved the Slayer tone from the early years on. Proof that you don't have downtuned OR mega-saturated to reach the highest level of heavy.


----------



## Edika

Since some people are really interested in the KKV's I came across this in ebay if anyone's interested:
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=152888737556


----------



## Mathemagician

Any sightings of wizards yet?


----------



## watson503

So the latest is HMG is shutting-down this month and BC Rich is up for sale - that's just what I've heard and I can't find anything official, have to keep an eye on this and see what comes of it.


----------



## exo

watson503 said:


> So the latest is HMG is shutting-down this month and BC Rich is up for sale - that's just what I've heard and I can't find anything official, have to keep an eye on this and see what comes of it.


Man, do I wish I had a winning powerball ticket......


----------



## Mathemagician

Lmao, damn. That IS a big announcement.


----------



## Athor

watson503 said:


> So the latest is HMG is shutting-down this month and BC Rich is up for sale - that's just what I've heard and I can't find anything official, have to keep an eye on this and see what comes of it.


That is quite the announcement if its true. Also it my be real good news for BCR as a brand. If someone like ESP gets a hold of the ownership.


----------



## Rosal76

Edika said:


> Since some people are really interested in the KKV's I came across this in ebay if anyone's interested:
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=152888737556



Excellent find!!!

Upon reading the Ebay info, I had no idea that there are 2 replica's of that V. The other one belongs to a member here. I didn't know about the second one.


----------



## groverj3

I've never really been a fan of what they've done since I started playing in the early 2000s. However, I recognize the heritage and some of their older stuff does seem pretty cool to me.

Sadly, what is happening to BCR is a microcosm of the market in general. I remember reading an article that stated that electric guitar sales are waaaaaay down right now. And it makes sense if you look at the music scene. I feel like there had been a mini-revival of guitar centric music at juuuust the right time for me to get into it but it seems to be on a downward trend.

Those saying that "if BCR would just make _____ and they'd make money" are probably overly optimistic about the state of the industry because they're posting here, which is a pretty lively community regardless of what's happening in geneal.

The way I see it all going, a lot of manufacturers are going to be in trouble. Gibson and Fender will obviously survive for the long-haul, but others? I think the trend will be those two buying up the smaller more niche companies that can't move as much hardware. Personally, I think Jackson would be in the same situation if they hadn't been bought by Fender. Despite that, they haven't been shipping as much USA Select stuff recently and don't take masterbuilt custom orders at the moment (last I've heard), they're concentrating on custom select which they can move more quickly to people in the roughly same market for boutique stuff.

I likely think that the industry (in the US) is going to move to Gibson and Fender + subsidiaries and the high end boutique instruments (custom stuff, Suhr, etc.). Then it'll cycle back around again like it always seems to.

This is noticable at music stores, too. Like them or hate them Guitar Center's demise also shows where things are. In huge markets like LA, NY, etc. you'll still see good selections at the best stores but in middle or smaller markets like where I am the local GC only has like 15 guitars and no used gear, and none of it is any good. On the other hand, there's also a high end independent shop in town and it sells CS Jacksons, ESPs, Suhrs, and now Vigier like mad and can't keep anything in stock.


----------



## lewis

this company was officially dead the second the guy died and the original family stopped being remotely involved now due to I presume selling it on.

at that point, they went down the toilet.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> this company was officially dead the second the guy died and the original family stopped being remotely involved now due to I presume selling it on.
> 
> at that point, they went down the toilet.



The original family caused them to go bankrupt. Twice. A third if you count when they were just contracting. 

The only one who knew how to run the thing was Sr. Not only was he the real deal, he knew how to run a business and knew to keep good, talented people happy in the fold. 

Jr, not so much. At all. Painfully so.


----------



## lewis

MaxOfMetal said:


> The original family caused them to go bankrupt. Twice. A third if you count when they were just contracting.
> 
> The only one who knew how to run the thing was Sr. Not only was he the real deal, he knew how to run a business and knew to keep good, talented people happy in the fold.
> 
> Jr, not so much. At all. Painfully so.


ah ok.
So much more to Snr passing away then.
Shame because they were pretty damn sweet back in the day.


----------



## Rosal76

lewis said:


> this company was officially dead the second the guy died and the original family stopped being remotely involved now due to I presume selling it on. at that point, they went down the toilet.



For the import line. Yes. I would agree with you.

For the U.S. custom shop line. I don't think so. I've been reading all the posts on "The B.C. Rich custom shop - Hand made in the USA" Facebook page (not to be confused with the B.C. Rich products and service Facebook page who handles the import line) and the U.S. custom shop seems to be doing well. Customers are having U.S. custom shop guitars/basses built and they seem to be happy with their new guitars. I've haven't seen any complaints, yet. They built Guns n' Roses guitarist, Slash, 3 Bich guitars and he seems happy with them. Someone I know from another forum had a U.S. custom shop Stealth built for him and he told me it was expensive but the end result was amazing. So he said. Time will only tell how long the success of the U.S. custom shop will last because they have failed before but I visit their Facebook page everyday and I haven't read anything negative yet, about the new U.S. custom shop guitars/basses being made. Actually, the only complaints I've read are the high prices.


----------



## lewis

Rosal76 said:


> For the import line. Yes. I would agree with you.
> 
> For the U.S. custom shop line. I don't think so. I've been reading all the posts on "The B.C. Rich custom shop - Hand made in the USA" Facebook page (not to be confused with the B.C. Rich products and service Facebook page who handles the import line) and the U.S. custom shop seems to be doing well. Customers are having U.S. custom shop guitars/basses built and they seem to be happy with their new guitars. I've haven't seen any complaints, yet. They built Guns n' Roses guitarist, Slash, 3 Bich guitars and he seems happy with them. Someone I know from another forum had a U.S. custom shop Stealth built for him and he told me it was expensive but the end result was amazing. So he said. Time will only tell how long the success of the U.S. custom shop will last because they have failed before but I visit their Facebook page everyday and I haven't read anything negative yet, about the new U.S. custom shop guitars/basses being made. Actually, the only complaints I've read are the high prices.


yeah tbh I agree. I had forgotton about recent custom shop standards.

but yueah those prices are actually ridiculous. For that amount I want my guitar to cook and clean whilst wearing something sexy at the weekends.


----------



## zappatton2

groverj3 said:


> I've never really been a fan of what they've done since I started playing in the early 2000s. However, I recognize the heritage and some of their older stuff does seem pretty cool to me.
> 
> Sadly, what is happening to BCR is a microcosm of the market in general. I remember reading an article that stated that electric guitar sales are waaaaaay down right now. And it makes sense if you look at the music scene. I feel like there had been a mini-revival of guitar centric music at juuuust the right time for me to get into it but it seems to be on a downward trend.
> 
> Those saying that "if BCR would just make _____ and they'd make money" are probably overly optimistic about the state of the industry because they're posting here, which is a pretty lively community regardless of what's happening in geneal.
> 
> The way I see it all going, a lot of manufacturers are going to be in trouble. Gibson and Fender will obviously survive for the long-haul, but others? I think the trend will be those two buying up the smaller more niche companies that can't move as much hardware. Personally, I think Jackson would be in the same situation if they hadn't been bought by Fender. Despite that, they haven't been shipping as much USA Select stuff recently and don't take masterbuilt custom orders at the moment (last I've heard), they're concentrating on custom select which they can move more quickly to people in the roughly same market for boutique stuff.
> 
> I likely think that the industry (in the US) is going to move to Gibson and Fender + subsidiaries and the high end boutique instruments (custom stuff, Suhr, etc.). Then it'll cycle back around again like it always seems to.
> 
> This is noticable at music stores, too. Like them or hate them Guitar Center's demise also shows where things are. In huge markets like LA, NY, etc. you'll still see good selections at the best stores but in middle or smaller markets like where I am the local GC only has like 15 guitars and no used gear, and none of it is any good. On the other hand, there's also a high end independent shop in town and it sells CS Jacksons, ESPs, Suhrs, and now Vigier like mad and can't keep anything in stock.


Since I'm now in my 40's, I can't speak with any authority on "youth culture", but the music store I frequent used to be filled to the gills with people my age when I was in my early 20's, and nowadays it usually only has about one or two fogies milling about at any given moment. Of course, that could just be a "because the internet" sort of thing, but I do wonder, given all the distractions of the modern world, if guitars and guitar-centric music really figure much with today's youth (of course some of them, yes, but all the 20-somethings I work with listen mostly to electronic music). Change is the only constant in the world, and I think there's a lot of truth to what you're saying, guitars may indeed become niche as the decades pass.


----------



## Rosal76

lewis said:


> but yueah those prices are actually ridiculous.



+1.

They are very, very expensive. If the guitar is a deluxe 10 string Bich with a transparent finish, cloud inlays, rosewood headstock veener, white binding, full active electronics and all the bells and whistles, yes, I can understand the $4,000 price tag. But $4,000 for a bolt-on Warlock with a black finish is just too much for me.


----------



## possumkiller

Rosal76 said:


> +1.
> 
> They are very, very expensive. If the guitar is a deluxe 10 string Bich with a transparent finish, cloud inlays, rosewood headstock veener, white binding, full active electronics and all the bells and whistles, yes, I can understand the $4,000 price tag. But $4,000 for a bolt-on Warlock with a black finish is just too much for me.



Ehhhh....

I'm more of a quality and playability over looks person. If I could pay $4k and get a plain black super strat that plays itself as insanely easy as a custom shop ESP, I'd be happy. I paid $3600 (in 2008) for a BRJ Jekyll 627 that was seriously fancy looking but didn't play anywhere near as nice as my CS KH4 benchmark.


----------



## groverj3

zappatton2 said:


> Since I'm now in my 40's, I can't speak with any authority on "youth culture", but the music store I frequent used to be filled to the gills with people my age when I was in my early 20's, and nowadays it usually only has about one or two fogies milling about at any given moment. Of course, that could just be a "because the internet" sort of thing, but I do wonder, given all the distractions of the modern world, if guitars and guitar-centric music really figure much with today's youth (of course some of them, yes, but all the 20-somethings I work with listen mostly to electronic music). Change is the only constant in the world, and I think there's a lot of truth to what you're saying, guitars may indeed become niche as the decades pass.



Not sure I can either, since I'm at the tail end of my 20s (28). When I started playing was around 2003, freshman year of high school for me. At this time our local GC in a small market (South Bend, IN) had Marshall tube heads, 5150s, etc., several JEMs, USA Fenders, USA Gibsons, Musicman JPs, Jackson USAs, and high end Ibanez. Crammed in the damn store so you could barely walk around. Part of this may be mismanagement by GC, as I know Bain Capital was pumping them full of debt to open more stores and carry more inventory, increase their valuation to eventually resell them. However, at that time there was quite a bit of excitement at guitar music. Not 80s level, but the "kids in school" were listening to music that had guitarists and people wanted to learn. It wasn't super technical for the most part but I think things were selling. The high end boutique market for modern gear wasn't as prominent as it is now though. More sales, but from lower end gear.

Now, I think the generation after me isn't listening to quite the same genres, and I think contemporary "pop music" has gotten even bigger. I don't really know though.

It seems that there are more sales of very high end instruments because the market is aging and older people have more disposable income (generally) and musical trends aren't focusing on guitar-centric music.

Maybe this is similar to what happened in the 90s? I was too young to take note.


----------



## Mathemagician

I mean, I feel for mom and pop music stores. But I can order whatever the fuck I want online from Axe Palace, DCGL, on and on with better service and better selection than brick and mortar stores. 

I couldn’t give a shit about physical locations except for strings. And honestly, that’s usually cheaper online too. So it makes it a bit harder to see how much volume is or isn’t being done in sales. 

But I def think “playing an instrument” isn’t the one-shot ticket to the other kids at school noticing you that it used to be for kids nowadays. You could just post tons of videos of you with your dog.


----------



## groverj3

Also, don't get me wrong. I fucking hate most Guitar Centers. They were a place you could walk in and see what was available though and actually get your hands on it. They influenced what was selling just by virtue of what they happened to have hanging on the walls for you to give a test play.


----------



## exo

groverj3 said:


> Not sure I can either, since I'm at the tail end of my 20s (28). When I started playing was around 2003, freshman year of high school for me. At this time our local GC in a small market (South Bend, IN) had Marshall tube heads, 5150s, etc., several JEMs, USA Fenders, USA Gibsons, Musicman JPs, Jackson USAs, and high end Ibanez. Crammed in the damn store so you could barely walk around. Part of this may be mismanagement by GC, as I know Bain Capital was pumping them full of debt to open more stores and carry more inventory, increase their valuation to eventually resell them. However, at that time there was quite a bit of excitement at guitar music. Not 80s level, but the "kids in school" were listening to music that had guitarists and people wanted to learn. It wasn't super technical for the most part but I think things were selling. The high end boutique market for modern gear wasn't as prominent as it is now though. More sales, but from lower end gear.
> 
> Now, I think the generation after me isn't listening to quite the same genres, and I think contemporary "pop music" has gotten even bigger. I don't really know though.
> 
> It seems that there are more sales of very high end instruments because the market is aging and older people have more disposable income (generally) and musical trends aren't focusing on guitar-centric music.
> 
> Maybe this is similar to what happened in the 90s? I was too young to take note.



Woah.....

Small freaking world, I guess. That is MY local GC, and where I bought both my BCR's I mentioned a couple pages back.


----------



## Rosal76

possumkiller said:


> I'm more of a quality and playability over looks person.



+1.

I'm the same way. Quality and playability are the most important factors in a guitar for me. I have 4 B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop guitars that I love, their playability is decent and they look evil and all but they can't beat my 3 Ibanez Prestige guitars in playability.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

In my history of being exposed to BC Rich since the 70's, no era in playability surpasses the era when Neal Moser worked there from 74-85 when he & Mal were doing all the setup work on them, including setting up the early era of the NJ series. Outside of that, I'd rather go to Neal directly as he is a good friend & I'd like to support small business.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Isn't there someone in the company Neal Moser had a beef with? I don't remember if it was Rico Jr or Sr.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Isn't there someone in the company Neal Moser had a beef with? I don't remember if it was Rico Jr or Sr.



Both.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Sr. with the issue of introducing the warlock purely out of the motivation to deter sales (& royalties) away from the Bich model.
Not sure of the Jr. issues.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Sr. with the issue of introducing the warlock purely out of the motivation to deter sales (& royalties) away from the Bich model.
> Not sure of the Jr. issues.



I know Jr. always tried to downplay Moser's contributions, especially in the early days. Even claimed a lot of them were Sr's, after his death of course. 

Jr. always tried to push the narrative of him and his father doing everything themselves, even when it was pretty well known that they had employed a bunch of folks, even in the early days.


----------



## groverj3

exo said:


> Woah.....
> 
> Small freaking world, I guess. That is MY local GC, and where I bought both my BCR's I mentioned a couple pages back.



Small world indeed! I no longer live in the area, but I have some decent memories of that place. My local GC is Tucson is pathetic, I remember that one being decent for a good span of 6 or so years after it opened before I left.


----------



## Marked Man

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> In my history of being exposed to BC Rich since the 70's, no era in playability surpasses the era when Neal Moser worked there from 74-85 when he & Mal were doing all the setup work on them, including setting up the early era of the NJ series. Outside of that, I'd rather go to Neal directly as he is a good friend & I'd like to support small business.



You run into the same dilemma going the Moser route----they may be the best new handmade B.C. designs around, but do you really need a guitar that costs $4000?!

Other than their dud "E-II" headstock logo, ESP has it figured out:

High end LTDs MIK starting around $1000
Very nice E-II MIJs starting around $1700
Original MIJ and USA series are the big dogs at $4000+ to remind people they are top end luthiers and attract major pros.
I'd be all over $1700 MIJ B.C. Rich guitars!!  And I'm not alone. After being on the used market for a few years, such guitars could probably be found in the $1000 range, and you'd get awesome value and would have no need to feel inadequate unless you have self esteem problems. Such a guitar could easily keep up with a pro.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Marked Man said:


> You run into the same dilemma going the Moser route----they may be the best new handmade B.C. designs around, but do you really need a guitar that costs $4000?!
> 
> Other than their dud "E-II" headstock logo, ESP has it figured out:
> 
> High end LTDs MIK starting around $1000
> Very nice E-II MIJs starting around $1700
> Original MIJ and USA series are the big dogs at $4000+ to remind people they are top end luthiers and attract major pros.
> I'd be all over $1700 MIJ B.C. Rich guitars!!  And I'm not alone. After being on the used market for a few years, such guitars could probably be found in the $1000 range, and you'd get awesome value and would have no need to feel inadequate unless you have self esteem problems. Such a guitar could easily keep up with a pro.



Multiple lines and manufacturing supply chains are great for big companies that have thier shit together. Two things that always seemed out of grasp for BCR. 

They really need to start small, build up a line of well made guitars within thier price bracket and offer amazing customer service. It doesn't matter where they're made as long as they're line priced with competition and they support them fully. If that means a line of $1k SK built stuff, by all means.


----------



## cardinal

They need to get their guitars back out there is artists hands. ‘80s style guitars have found a pretty solid niche lately. Reissue neon Jems and Charvels, etc. 

BC Rich needs to try to ditch the death-metal-only image, and the Retro Gunslinger isn’t going to do it. That’s not the BC Rich people want. We want the Warlock and Bich and Mockingbird and we want them fun and cheesy. I think that would help get them relaunch.


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> Multiple lines and manufacturing supply chains are great for big companies that have thier shit together. Two things that always seemed out of grasp for BCR.
> 
> They really need to start small, build up a line of well made guitars within thier price bracket and offer amazing customer service. It doesn't matter where they're made as long as they're line priced with competition and they support them fully. If that means a line of $1k SK built stuff, by all means.



The Schecter playbook. They have a custom shop, and built their brand up substantially over the last 5 or so years by putting out quality mid-tier guitars. Adding new models each year and adapting QUICKLY to consumer demands.


----------



## Vhyle

cardinal said:


> BC Rich needs to try to ditch the death-metal-only image, and the Retro Gunslinger isn’t going to do it. That’s not the BC Rich people want. We want the Warlock and Bich and Mockingbird and we want them fun and cheesy. I think that would help get them relaunch.



And the Ironbird! 

I've seen so much consumer demand for them to bring back the Ironbird, for a significant amount of time now. Its return would greatly help them, I think.


----------



## Marked Man

cardinal said:


> They need to get their guitars back out there is artists hands. ‘80s style guitars have found a pretty solid niche lately. Reissue neon Jems and Charvels, etc.
> 
> BC Rich needs to try to ditch the death-metal-only image, and the Retro Gunslinger isn’t going to do it. That’s not the BC Rich people want. We want the Warlock and Bich and Mockingbird and we want them fun and cheesy. I think that would help get them relaunch.



And don't forget my personal fave, the mighty Eagle! Need to remind fan's of the PRS New Eagle who had the original Eagle! It is conservative enough in shape that non-metal guitarists would gladly play it if they could ever find a quality version that doesn't cost $3-$5K. It's a great alternative for those who might otherwise plays PRS or LPs.

They definitely need more high profile endorsers. They are all but invisible these days outside of the extreme metal world, and selling $179 toys doesn't help.


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> Multiple lines and manufacturing supply chains are great for big companies that have thier shit together. Two things that always seemed out of grasp for BCR.
> 
> They really need to start small, build up a line of well made guitars within thier price bracket and offer amazing customer service. It doesn't matter where they're made as long as they're line priced with competition and they support them fully. If that means a line of $1k SK built stuff, by all means.



The Schecter playbook. They have a custom shop, and built their brand up substantially over the last 5 or so years by putting out quality mid-tier guitars. Adding new models each year and adapting QUICKLY to consumer demands.


----------



## cardinal

Schecter managed to tie itself to a new wave of modern rock acts as it was really gearing up the Diamond Series, and the guitars happened to be built really well. The custom shop was there to give its customers something to aspire to, and they’ve been building that up appropriately as their core customers have aged and increased in buying power. 

It’s definitely something for other brands to aspire too. But I have no idea what it took to land those early endorsements that to me seemed key to getting the Diamond Series out there. I’m just not sure that environment exists now, as heavy radio rock has receded again. It’ll come back eventually, but BC Rich will have to have the money and timing to get it right when it does.


----------



## Andromalia

Well, the thing is, BC Rich's market in the 80es has been snapped up by a little company called ESP since. Even Blackie is with ESP now. Lots of BM acts that could be seen playing a warlock, say, are with ESP. I don't see BCrich coming back just with Gunslingers. Gimme a quality warlock in black with the rounded edges and the widow headstock and I'll buy it. With a fixed bridge, good pickups, and no tribal graphics of any kind. Thanks


----------



## Mathemagician

Iron. Bird. 

I posted “Pro. Series.” Every time Dave from Revocation posted a shot of his custom and years later it worked. It’s science. 

So i’m posting about iron birds and awaiting 2022-2023 for the announcement of sweet new birds.


----------



## Rossness

A bunch of years ago, I bought a red BC Rich Gunslinger retro blade. It was made in Korea, had a skinny D shaped neck and was a shred machine! Good quality. Not quite the same quality as the USA Charvel Pro mods of the time, but not too far off. Then production moved to china. The alder body became a basswood body, the neck became thicker and quality went way downhill. Theu ditched the dimarzio pickups and put lesser quality trems in the guitars.

I liked my gunslinger. Save for the 10-string bitch, I was never into BC rich much. I'm into my charvel- type necks and the gunslinger had one and it was a good guitar. I played a USA gunslinger at the music zoo last year. It was good, but not ass good as my USA J/C stuff. I see BCR much like kramer- much could be done with the brand but that doesn't happen. Gibson could rehire Gary Kramer and Paul Unkather just like BCR could hire Moser and Rico Jr. But they don't. Its a dead brand because whoever bought BCR is lazy and would rather skim by than trying to innovate.

Someone mentioned making BCR a novelty brand. That could work. And you could take the Keisel approach of selling factory direct. Make crazy shapes too!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Man the original BCR Gunslinger Retro was killer. H-S config, maple board, DiMarzio pickups, ORIGINAL Floyd Rose...


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

So which B.C. Rich's are worth getting? I've recently been gassing pretty hard for a Warlock or a Beast but I don't know what eras are worth looking at. I always see the NJ series touted as being pretty decent but other than that I've got no idea where to start. Is the RAVE series any good?


----------



## CapinCripes

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> So which B.C. Rich's are worth getting?


MIJ NJ, U series, and US. 


BIG ND SWEATY said:


> Is the RAVE series any good?


No.


----------



## fantom

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> So which B.C. Rich's are worth getting? I've recently been gassing pretty hard for a Warlock or a Beast but I don't know what eras are worth looking at. I always see the NJ series touted as being pretty decent but other than that I've got no idea where to start. Is the RAVE series any good?



Depends on how much are you willing to spend. Most people praise the 80s Hesperia and original NJs, both which I never played . I played a seagull from the 70s and the neck felt wider than the later stuff. The Hesperia shop in the middle to late 90s was excellent with a few duds. I still haven't found a better neck. USA fenders and Jackson custom shop are close? The NJs were the higher end imports. They also had a series made in eastern Europe that were actually pretty good.

The rave series was worse than platinums iirc. I would steer clear


----------



## xCaptainx

Rossness said:


> A bunch of years ago, I bought a red BC Rich Gunslinger retro blade. It was made in Korea, had a skinny D shaped neck and was a shred machine! Good quality. Not quite the same quality as the USA Charvel Pro mods of the time, but not too far off. Then production moved to china. The alder body became a basswood body, the neck became thicker and quality went way downhill. Theu ditched the dimarzio pickups and put lesser quality trems in the guitars.



Oh man, I had three gunslingers at one point. Two korean built, the latter from the production move. 

I agree, night and day. The previous builds were heavier and played MUCH better. The other one felt so cheap. I mean, granted, they were already at a crazy low price point (hence buying three over 2 years) but I was so disappointed once I received the third one.


----------



## Andromalia

Who can I call to make a 1€ offer for the company ?


----------



## dr_game0ver

I bid 2€!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

$5 and some pocket lint.


----------



## Mathemagician

Two and a half times the previous bidder. And some tasty lint for the Zoidbergs on staff. What an offer.


----------



## possumkiller

I forsee Jr trying to make a BC Rich comeback.


----------



## CapinCripes

possumkiller said:


> I forsee Jr trying to make a BC Rich comeback.


god I hope not.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> I forsee Jr trying to make a BC Rich comeback.



It seems that him and his circle of blind-supporters-who-think-they're-friends have been somewhat ousted for the time being. 

I don't think they have the cash. Most of his supporters with that kind of money have moved on, which is why all you have are internet randos supporting him now. 

Most were pretty pissed off that he was given NAMM access.


----------



## CapinCripes

Short of the second coming of Bernie Rico Sr. that family needs to stay far away from anything and everything to do with guitars.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Sooo, asny info about this?

Twitter hasn't been updated since 2017, their Instagram and FB are stuck in February, and everything is still showing "NEW FOR 2017" stuff. Hell, the website is still stuck in 2017. 

Safe to assume either the brand is dead, or at least in a coma? Still no "big announcement" from what I've seen.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Sooo, asny info about this?
> 
> Twitter hasn't been updated since 2017, their Instagram and FB are stuck in February, and everything is still showing "NEW FOR 2017" stuff. Hell, the website is still stuck in 2017.
> 
> Safe to assume either the brand is dead, or at least in a coma? Still no "big announcement" from what I've seen.


Sometimes, dead is better.


----------



## watson503

Yeah, still no word on what the "big announcement" is or was - I've heard nothing but rumors the past week or so - Brian X. Martin has been fired by Praxis, whoever has $2.5 mil can have the company...the whole thing is a clusterfuck as usual.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

I must win the lottery and buy BC rich to turn it into a Daisy Rock clone


----------



## dr_game0ver

Now I want a pink Daisy Rock Warlock...


----------



## oppgulp

I hope a big company like Fender buys BC Rich. I was really skepitcal when they bought Jackson, but now 15 years later I think they have done a nice job with the brand. Hopefully they (or another big manufacturer) can resurrect the BC Rich name.


----------



## possumkiller

Just not Gibson...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

dr_game0ver said:


> Now I want a pink Daisy Rock Warlock...


I want a hot pink eagle


----------



## MaxOfMetal

oppgulp said:


> I hope a big company like Fender buys BC Rich. I was really skepitcal when they bought Jackson, but now 15 years later I think they have done a nice job with the brand. Hopefully they (or another big manufacturer) can resurrect the BC Rich name.





possumkiller said:


> Just not Gibson...



I don't think any of the really big companies are in a place to buy BCR, and the few who aren't having financial problems don't tend to do acquisitions. 

It would be interesting to see something like what happened with Modulus. A large, successful independent retailer bought them.


----------



## Seabeast2000

$2.5M? Who set that price? Zillow?


----------



## Andromalia

Well, Thomann could buy them and contract the builds to Warwick...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> Well, Thomann could buy them and contract the builds to Warwick...



How popular is BCR over in Europe?


----------



## vilk

I was kinda hoping that it does go away and then in 20 years my import warlock will be super cool and retro and everyone will want it because it's a Korean model and not Chinese.
Japanese and American models will only exist in museums.

-------

Kinda off topic and also just curious, but where would you go to get a custom neck to fit a warlock? This might seem like a dumb question, but you figure any ol' luthier could measure a neck pocket and make one to match it no problem?

I'd love to give my warlock a maple fretboard. I can only find them on USA warlocks, I don't think they made any imports with them.


----------



## jl-austin

Warmoth should buy them!


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> How popular is BCR over in Europe?



Not very, since what we have is either made in china bad stuff or stupid expensive customs. Given a 7K€ price tag it's one of the last brands I'd recommend, and the used market isn't plentiful. A buddy of mine got a USA warlock recently though, I told him I'd buy it when he sells it.
To sum up, BCR's market in europe is black metal bands buying a 200€ one for their videos in the forest.
Given the fact that Thomann are spicing up their Harley Benton line my suggestion was more of a pipe dream than anything else.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

jl-austin said:


> Warmoth should buy them!


Warmoth can't afford to. Warmoth is a very small family owned company with less that 100 employees in a lower middle class economy. Having known Neal Moser for nearly 20 years, and his stories about BCR, he often commented about his wonder why anyone would want to by BCR, as it's just a small shop, about 4000 sq feet. 
When people think of "guitar factories", they often think of the size of Peavey or Carvin, not small shop the size of a 3 car garage.


----------



## snowblind56

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Warmoth can't afford to. Warmoth is a very small family owned company with less that 100 employees in a lower middle class economy. Having known Neal Moser for nearly 20 years, and his stories about BCR, he often commented about his wonder why anyone would want to by BCR, as it's just a small shop, about 4000 sq feet.
> When people think of "guitar factories", they often think of the size of Peavey or Carvin, not small shop the size of a 3 car garage.



Nobody is buying BC Rich to take over their building. They would be buying it because of their history, to resurrect the brand and for whatever intellectual property they might have. 

If someone had the money, it almost seems like a no brainer when you consider what the early Mockingbirds and Bich's go for these days. Even Gunslingers are fetching silly money. Hell, even the Korean Retro Gunslingers are fetching more than what they sold for new. Why Praxis couldn't get their shit together and give people what they wanted at prices that aren't ridiculous is beyond me.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

It wont be Warmoth.
Warmoth doesn't build "Guitars".
They build "Guitar _Parts_".
And, I know Ken personally as a friend and former employer, and he has no interest in BCR whatsoever.


----------



## bostjan

snowblind56 said:


> Nobody is buying BC Rich to take over their building. They would be buying it because of their history, to resurrect the brand and for whatever intellectual property they might have.
> 
> If someone had the money, it almost seems like a no brainer when you consider what the early Mockingbirds and Bich's go for these days. Even Gunslingers are fetching silly money. Hell, even the Korean Retro Gunslingers are fetching more than what they sold for new. Why Praxis couldn't get their shit together and give people what they wanted at prices that aren't ridiculous is beyond me.


I think, sadly, we will be seeing quite a few brands like this just vanish. The guitar building business is floundering right now, so few responsible investors are going to want to dive into the quagmire. As much as I love my BC Rich, I'd rather see the company die with dignity than for them to get bought by some yahoo who will just run what little reputation they have left through the dirt.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The question is... does anyone want BCR? 



bostjan said:


> As much as I love my BC Rich, I'd rather see the company die with dignity than for them to get bought by some yahoo who will just run what little reputation they have left through the dirt.



That... seems to have already happened. 

I mean it's not as embarrasing of a death as some other companies, but they seem to be going out with a whimper rather than a bang.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Honestly, Kerry King should just buy them. 

He's so associated with the brand and he's going to have plenty of time on his hands once Slayer is wrapped up. He probably has the money.


----------



## bostjan

Brilliant! Even if he doesn't have the money on hand, I'm sure he'd have some good crowd-sourcing support if he asked.


----------



## snowblind56

MaxOfMetal said:


> Honestly, Kerry King should just buy them.
> 
> He's so associated with the brand and he's going to have plenty of time on his hands once Slayer is wrapped up. He probably has the money.



Dave Mustaine should just buy them then. He used to play them and he was mega-butt hurt when he tried to buy Jackson but they sold to Fender instead.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

snowblind56 said:


> Dave Mustaine should just buy them then. He used to play them and he was mega-butt hurt when he tried to buy Jackson but they sold to Fender instead.



Yeah, but he seems plenty happy with Dean and it's been ages since he played BCR.


----------



## CapinCripes

Honestly what I want out of bcr seems to be impossible. I want a US production line in the same bracket as Jackson usa, Think 2.5-3k range of the "greatest hits" if you will. a basic neck thru model of all their shapes with low production quantities to have a dealer presence for their top end. To fill in the range for customers who want something slightly different than the basics but not too crazy have something similar to Jackson with custom select type deals for people who want slight to moderate changes to the base models at similar to Jackson custom select prices. above that they can have the full custom shop where the sky is the limit in terms of specs and pricing. Basically i want to be able to get a basic usa NT model for less than 4.5K and built by someone trustworthy, a feat that others (i really am harping on this Jackson comparison arn't I) seem able to do (minus Jackson's barely existent masterbuild team). for the imports they can continue the Mk whatever thing they have going on to denote their tiers, but not have them all be MIC for MIK prices, contract out to WMI or whatever again for midrange models. Basically I want fender to buy them but actually staff the custom shop.  But that's not happening.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

CapinCripes said:


> Honestly what I want out of bcr seems to be impossible. I want a US production line in the same bracket as Jackson usa, Think 2.5-3k range of the "greatest hits" if you will. a basic neck thru model of all their shapes with low production quantities to have a dealer presence for their top end. To fill in the range for customers who want something slightly different than the basics but not too crazy have something similar to Jackson with custom select type deals for people who want slight to moderate changes to the base models at similar to Jackson custom select prices. above that they can have the full custom shop where the sky is the limit in terms of specs and pricing. Basically i want to be able to get a basic usa NT model for less than 4.5K and built by someone trustworthy, a feat that others (i really am harping on this Jackson comparison arn't I) seem able to do (minus Jackson's barely existent masterbuild team). for the imports they can continue the Mk whatever thing they have going on to denote their tiers, but not have them all be MIC for MIK prices, contract out to WMI or whatever again for midrange models. Basically I want fender to buy them but actually staff the custom shop.  But that's not happening.




Those days are long behind BCR, they simply don't have the orders to generate the capitol to sustain that. Especially in an economy like Southern California. Back in late 80's, they did for a bit, but it was a much more relevant time for BCR & their exotic shapes. Sadly, they did nothing to roll with the changes & that's where they find themselves today.


----------



## CapinCripes

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Those days are long behind BCR, they simply don't have the orders to generate the capitol to sustain that. Especially in an economy like Southern California. Back in late 80's, they did for a bit, but it was a much more relevant time for BCR & their exotic shapes. Sadly, they did nothing to roll with the changes & that's where they find themselves today.


Which is why I was making the Jackson comparison honestly. Jackson's mainstay may be the soloist and dinky, as was the gunslinger for bc rich in the late 80s but Jackson also has the Rhoads, king v Kelly and warrior, not exactly conservative shapes, yet they are still doing immensely well. They were both cut from the same cloth, in the same general area and Charvel even made some of the necks and bodies for the short lived son of a rich guitars. Now the difference is one is basically dead and the other has a massive presence in the metal guitar market. I don't expect fender to buy them and compete with itself in the metal guitar market, that wouldn't make much sense. I was just saying that if the rico family and by exension class axe and hanser had the savvy that charvel/ jackson, IMC, and now FMIC had they might be in the same spot.


----------



## Andromalia

bostjan said:


> I think, sadly, we will be seeing quite a few brands like this just vanish. The guitar building business is floundering right now, so few responsible investors are going to want to dive into the quagmire. As much as I love my BC Rich, I'd rather see the company die with dignity than for them to get bought by some yahoo who will just run what little reputation they have left through the dirt.



A distinct possibility is that if the brand and associated intellectual property disappear, many companies will actually try to sell a Warlock, which for me is THE BC Rich. (I know some have other references, but to me it's Sepultura and WASP.) In that case, I'd put a few € on a bet that ESP won't be the last to try to pull it off.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> A distinct possibility is that if the brand and associated intellectual property disappear, many companies will actually try to sell a Warlock, which for me is THE BC Rich. (I know some have other references, but to me it's Sepultura and WASP.) In that case, I'd put a few € on a bet that ESP won't be the last to try to pull it off.



What are the odds though that no one will buy the IP? Even if it's just to license out or sue the pants off of copy cats.


----------



## bostjan

I guess we might find out. They are iconic shapes, but the icons only mean anything to a very select group of people


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bostjan said:


> I guess we might find out. They are iconic shapes, but the icons only mean anything to a very select group of people



Never underestimate the allure of a money grab. 

We see it with trademark and patent trolling, especially in certain industries. 

It costs nothing to hold onto the IP, save the original purchase price.


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> What are the odds though that no one will buy the IP? Even if it's just to license out or sue the pants off of copy cats.


Depends on what it costs. It's not like the companies that will make BCR shapes will suddenly sell millions of them.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

THe IP will definitely be bought, but probably for peanuts, by a company that wants to milk the image, rather than revive it - like MusicYo era Kramers, the aim was never to make a quality product, only to milk the reputation and image. 

BCR already had a shitty reputation at the low end and a basically unattainable high end, so it wouldn't even really be different as far as the market would see. Just more of the same.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

If someone were to buy them up, they would be best served by streamlining and RE-building to RE-earn market confidence just as a brand new company would. Limit production, limit staff, do it right by doing it small with great quality, grow at a pace that is economically absorbable.


----------



## vilk

GuitarBizarre said:


> BCR already had a shitty reputation at the low end



Is that so? I thought the only shitty reputation they had was for the stock pups (or ugly guitar shapes)... I mean after all the guitars are so bare-bones. I have a platinum series warlock from around 2004 and I feel it's pretty good quality compared to some low end ltds and Indo Ibbies I've played more recently. But then again platinum series is a whole step above bronze series. My buddy had a bronze mockingbird, but I can't remember it well enough to comment on the quality.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

vilk said:


> Is that so? I thought the only shitty reputation they had was for the stock pups (or ugly guitar shapes)... I mean after all the guitars are so bare-bones. I have a platinum series warlock from around 2004 and I feel it's pretty good quality compared to some low end ltds and Indo Ibbies I've played more recently. But then again platinum series is a whole step above bronze series. My buddy had a bronze mockingbird, but I can't remember it well enough to comment on the quality.



Oh man, when I first started playing guitar, even my non-guitar-playing brother was like "Make sure you don't get a BC Rich. I heard they suck."


----------



## groverj3

The poster making comparisons to Jackson was pretty spot-on. They could very well have been in the same position had things gone a little differently for each.

I'm obviously a big Jackson guy, and have been active on jcfonline for a good number of years in addition to here, but there's this sense among some in the Jackson community that the Fender buyout was somehow bad for the brand. It couldn't be further from the truth. Jackson was probably stronger than BCR through the 90s and early 00s, but they still weren't managed well. FMIC buying them was probably the only reason they're still around and being somewhat successful at the moment.

Had BCR been bought by a parent company that actually had some interest in making it successful at what it's known for, without needing to depend completely on the low-end market to keep it afloat it might be a different story. The best thing to hope for you BCR fans out there is for a reorganized Gibson to buy them or something after they're on better financial footing. It gives Gibson a foot in the "metal" guitar market with an established brand name and it's actually a guitar company, rather than their adventures into all sorts of non-guitar stuff which over extended themselves. Then again, that depends on it being managed well, which Gibson wasn't under their current management. Something similar though, would make sense.


----------



## bostjan

Oh hell no, Gibson buying BCR would 90% end in embarrassment for both entities.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I doubt Gibson is in any spot to make any purchases like that anyway. Fender more likely, but they already got Charvel for their '80s throwback brand and Jackson for the br00tz.


----------



## NateFalcon

I would snag up 80’s and early 90’s BC’s. USA’s are worth a fortune and the Japanese ‘NJ’s’ are also rising in rarity and price...I’m mostly out of the pointy guitar thing, but I’m refinishing a SUPER RARE neck-through 1986 USA ironbird that my best friend brought back from Japan in ‘97 I believe...(USA guitar from Japan lol) I’m doing a flat-radius African Blackwood fretboard and painting it in PPG metallic black...there’s something really fucking cool about it...but yeah- BCR is certainly floundering the last decade.


----------



## NateFalcon

I would snag up 80’s and early 90’s BC’s. USA’s are worth a fortune and the Japanese ‘NJ’s’ are also rising in rarity and price...I’m mostly out of the pointy guitar thing, but I’m refinishing a SUPER RARE neck-through 1986 USA ironbird that my best friend brought back from Japan in ‘97 I believe...(USA guitar from Japan lol) I’m doing a flat-radius African Blackwood fretboard and painting it in PPG metallic black...there’s something really fucking cool about it...but yeah- BCR is certainly floundering the last decade.


----------



## groverj3

bostjan said:


> Oh hell no, Gibson buying BCR would 90% end in embarrassment for both entities.



Not in their current form, but they'll be reorganized following their bankruptcy and since FMIC won't buy them name another big guitar company that would?

The only way BCR is going to be anything again is if they're bought by a company in the industry, venture capital firms are just going to try to increase their valuation before dumping them to make money and that's the best case scenario.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

better to just let bc rich die and stay dead. moser and daemoness both keep the spirit of the 80s BCR guitars alive and you can get some bc rich style shapes from them if you want. I still say anything except the ironbird and eagle need to be wiped from the face of the earth.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

It doesn't necessarily need to be an outright guitar manufacturer to purchase BCR. It's not like they need a factory, everything is OEM these days anyway. 

I can't think of a single large guitar manufacturer that would be in the financial position to buy BCR. Both Gibson Corp and FMIC don't have the money. Then there's Ibanez, ESP and Schecter who all neither need a "metal" brand nor do they typically do acquisitions like this. The smaller boutiques aren't going to touch BCR with a 10ft cattle prod. 

But I could totally see one of the big music product companies who has yet to directly dabble in guitars making an offer. I'm talking companies like Dunlop or the smaller Dean Markley.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

KnightBrolaire said:


> better to just let bc rich die and stay dead. moser and daemoness both keep the spirit of the 80s BCR guitars alive and you can get some bc rich style shapes from them if you want. I still say anything except the ironbird and eagle need to be wiped from the face of the earth.



In a better world, Moser would own BCR.


----------



## Cynicanal

KnightBrolaire said:


> I still say anything except the ironbird and eagle need to be wiped from the face of the earth.


Meanwhile, I just bought a USA Custom Shop Beast on Reverb.


----------



## zappatton2

MaxOfMetal said:


> In a better world, Moser would own BCR.


I wish I could like this twice.


----------



## NateFalcon

Eeeegads...I feel bad, I was just ripping on the beast on the Dimebag thread lol...If you like the shape, cool!! Their USA customs are nice guitars


----------



## zappatton2

Cynicanal said:


> Meanwhile, I just bought a USA Custom Shop Beast on Reverb.


Was it the black one with the silver bevels? My eyeballs had been admiring that for some time.


----------



## Cynicanal

zappatton2 said:


> Was it the black one with the silver bevels? My eyeballs had been admiring that for some time.


No, the one I got is all black. I saw the one with silver bevels, but I prefer a fixed bridge.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Well can't say I'm surprised but wish they would rebound under new ownership if there ends up being new ownership.

I'm just glad I've already got 4 80s NJs lol.


----------



## ArtDecade

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, but he seems plenty happy with Dean and it's been ages since he played BCR.



Would Dean have the interest and money to buy BC Rich? The designs and image are kinda in their wheelhouse.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

vilk said:


> Is that so? I thought the only shitty reputation they had was for the stock pups (or ugly guitar shapes)... I mean after all the guitars are so bare-bones. I have a platinum series warlock from around 2004 and I feel it's pretty good quality compared to some low end ltds and Indo Ibbies I've played more recently. But then again platinum series is a whole step above bronze series. My buddy had a bronze mockingbird, but I can't remember it well enough to comment on the quality.


Imagine a shitty no-brand guitar someone bought as their first in the late 90s.

That was the BC Rich Bronze series in 2004. 

It also didn't help their credibility that in a world where egalitarianism was becoming more and more the business-watchword, and where "skulls on everything" was becoming tacky even in metal, they decided to release these:


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ArtDecade said:


> Would Dean have the interest and money to buy BC Rich? The designs and image are kinda in their wheelhouse.



Likely neither.


----------



## bostjan

Just my unsolicited opinion, but the Mockingbird is the coolest-looking guitar shape. It's not all that practical or ergonomic, but I would love to have a tweaked-out mockingbird-inspired custom some day. The sad thing is, that, if you guys are correct about someone ip-poaching, then the likelihood of it ever happening just got much worse.

Oh, and Moser absolutely should have been handed the reigns after Bernie Sr.; I think it goes without saying. If he never wanted it or whatever, then the brand itself would have been better off put to bed then. The sub-par BC Rich imports have been, IMO, a contributing factor in the caricaturization of heavy music.


----------



## CapinCripes

bostjan said:


> Just my unsolicited opinion, but the Mockingbird is the coolest-looking guitar shape. It's not all that practical or ergonomic


Im going to stop you right there. Having owned one it feels pretty nice sitting down and despite some neck dive it is actually very practical in terms of playing. I agree with the sentiment that it's one of the coolest looking shapes, its unfortunate that the one I had was kind of crap because the truss rod well... didn't truss rod and the floyd studs made the worst grinding noise every time you tried to move them but it was an absolute ginormous sounding guitar and the neck shape felt very nice. I would have definitely liked something similar in a Usa made package so it would actually play as amazing as it looked.


----------



## Rosal76

Cynicanal said:


> Meanwhile, I just bought a USA Custom Shop Beast on Reverb.



+1.

Beast guitars are freaking massive in person, aren't they!!! I have a U.S. custom shop Beast from 2006 and when I first got it, I was like, "man, maybe I should have just stick with Warlocks, instead". LOL.


----------



## bostjan

CapinCripes said:


> Im going to stop you right there. Having owned one it feels pretty nice sitting down and despite some neck dive it is actually very practical in terms of playing. I agree with the sentiment that it's one of the coolest looking shapes, its unfortunate that the one I had was kind of crap because the truss rod well... didn't truss rod and the floyd studs made the worst grinding noise every time you tried to move them but it was an absolute ginormous sounding guitar and the neck shape felt very nice. I would have definitely liked something similar in a Usa made package so it would actually play as amazing as it looked.


I own a couple Mockingbirds. My USA MB7 was my main guitar for about 5 years. They are bulky guitars, they weigh quite a lot, they don't fit very well in most guitar stands, they don't fit most guitar cases, and they don't have a sturdy way of picking them up, because the lower horn is nonexistent and the upper horn is awkwardly shaped and angled. These are all fairly minor things to complain about, IMO, but that's why I say that they are not all that practical nor ergonomic. Unless, if you are comparing to other BCR shapes,


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

I miss the Eagle. But my main TFS6 handbuilt that I've been playing for 21+ years was inspired by the Bich.


----------



## R34CH

bostjan said:


> Just my unsolicited opinion, but the Mockingbird is the coolest-looking guitar shape.



Just an unsolicited opinion based on your unsolicited opinion but I would have to say the Ignitor takes the cake for coolest shape over the Mockingbird. The Ignitor will forever be my middle school crush after seeing Schaffer use one on the Iced Earth Alive in Athens DVD. 

Man...good times (and riffs).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The Mockinbird, Bich, and Ignitor are all equally awesome.

Although the Ignitor gets extra points because of this


----------



## CapinCripes

bostjan said:


> I own a couple Mockingbirds. My USA MB7 was my main guitar for about 5 years. They are bulky guitars, they weigh quite a lot, they don't fit very well in most guitar stands, they don't fit most guitar cases, and they don't have a sturdy way of picking them up, because the lower horn is nonexistent and the upper horn is awkwardly shaped and angled. These are all fairly minor things to complain about, IMO, but that's why I say that they are not all that practical nor ergonomic. Unless, if you are comparing to other BCR shapes,


Oh god the case, I cannot overstate how cumbersome the case I got for that was. My rhoads case is larger but i haven't attempted to take that anywhere yet. I still have nightmares about getting my mockingbird case in the car to go to guitar lessons when i was in highschcool. I didn't find guitar stands to be much of a problem, not compared to something like a v at least but i can see where it could be a problem in some cases. I always pick up my guitars by the neck with the headstock resting on the top of my hand or by the neck around the base of the neck so i can't comment on the struggles of holding onto the horn, but i can see where that could go wrong. I had one of the first run Pro X mockingbirds so it was quite heavy what with a thick ass body and maple cap so i agree with that statement although I like heavy guitars because im weird that way. So yeah, i can see where your coming from in comparison to a super strat or the like. much better than the piece of firewood warbeast I had for a while though. Good god that thing was a nightmare to play sitting. Still need a warlock in my life though.


----------



## DIM3S0UL

Funny thing is, i saw a german TV show few days ago where they renovate old s**t from people. And the person always has to tell the story etc. 
One dude in the episode wanted to renovate his guitar. Guess what it was = a BC Rich Mockingbird from what i assume 1978. He got it at age 20 for like 2400 DM used. 
Which is 1200€ nowadays. Damn great guitars i must say.

If anyone want's to see it = 
http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Liebl...en/Video?bcastId=49995386&documentId=50708160
[Starts at 10min]


----------



## zappatton2

Rosal76 said:


> +1.
> 
> Beast guitars are freaking massive in person, aren't they!!! I have a U.S. custom shop Beast from 2006 and when I first got it, I was like, "man, maybe I should have just stick with Warlocks, instead". LOL.


Imagine owning an archtop! They weigh a metric tonne. I used to own this thing, and I'm like 5'6, barely 115lbs, that guitar was sure to cripple me. Sold it when I fell into money "shortfalls" (along with all but 3 of my guitars), but I think I miss it most. I'd gladly buy it back if I had the chance and the coin. No neck dive, lap comfortable, and played and sounded simple amazing. Used to have black hardware, I really regretted changing it to gold, hindsight and all.


----------



## Viginez

why was ibanez the only company that saw the talent in m.suicmez? props to them.
bc rich had the chance when the man himself ordered two stealths, but i guess they didn't even know who he was.
that was a missed opportunity imo.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Viginez said:


> why was ibanez the only company that saw the talent in m.suicmez? props to them.
> bc rich had the chance when the man himself ordered two stealths, but i guess they didn't even know who he was.
> that was a missed opportunity imo.



Eh, I think it's closer to the other way around.

Suicmez quit music right after receiving a few LACS models. Just fell off the Earth. 

It's not like Necrophagist had a lot of output. It's been almost 15 years since they made an album and in another few years most will forget who they are.


----------



## Cynicanal

Rosal76 said:


> +1.
> 
> Beast guitars are freaking massive in person, aren't they!!! I have a U.S. custom shop Beast from 2006 and when I first got it, I was like, "man, maybe I should have just stick with Warlocks, instead". LOL.


Heh, I've always thought the size was just right on them. Maybe it's just because I got used to seeing them because both the guitarist and bassist of one of my favorite local bands back in my 20s played Beasts. When they introduced the smaller one in the late '00s, I always thought it looked like a toy because it was so small.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

One of my biggest guitar-regrets is not buying both Hoffman brothers' Beasts when they were selling them locally down in FL.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

I've wanted a double-P Wave bass ever since seeing Jerry Preston play one with Maceo Parker. BCR wasn't always just for metal, kids.


----------



## Viginez

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, I think it's closer to the other way around.
> 
> Suicmez quit music right after receiving a few LACS models. Just fell off the Earth.
> 
> It's not like Necrophagist had a lot of output. It's been almost 15 years since they made an album and in another few years most will forget who they are.


yeah, but i meant the time before ibanez, when he was using vigier and then bc rich.
ibanez was the only company that called him and even sponsored some tour i think after they realeased their second album.
he used ibanez for quite some time and is still listed as their artist btw. weird.
of course after 2011 he sadly vanished into the dark.


----------



## Mathemagician

Dude probably just got in on the food cart craze early, opened up a little stand and the hipsters took him to greater wealth than death metal could ever bring. He’s just spreading pesto on fancy grilled cheeses now somewhere smiling as he sells $15 artisanal sandwhiches and $7 non alcoholic lemonades. It’s a great life. But it’s a life with limited time for all things tech death. Whose going to hand-massage the brie if not him?


----------



## Rosal76

zappatton2 said:


> Imagine owning an archtop! They weigh a metric tonne. I used to own this thing,



I remember that Beast!!! You were a member of the unofficial B.C. Rich forum with Lorne, right? That's where I first saw it. It is a beautiful guitar and I can only imagine how heavy it is. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> One of my biggest guitar-regrets is not buying both Hoffman brothers' Beasts when they were selling them locally down in FL.



Which ones did they sell? I know Brian put the red prototype Beast on Ebay several times.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Rosal76 said:


> Which ones did they sell? I know Brian put the red prototype Beast on Ebay several times.



The green-burst and the trans-black.


----------



## zappatton2

Rosal76 said:


> I remember that Beast!!! You were a member of the unofficial B.C. Rich forum with Lorne, right? That's where I first saw it.


Many many moons ago, yes!


----------



## Andromalia

Mathemagician said:


> as he sells $15 artisanal sandwhiches and $7 non alcoholic lemonades.



What, there's alcoholic lemonade ?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> What, there's alcoholic lemonade ?



There's non-alcoholic?


----------



## pastanator

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's non-alcoholic?


----------



## Rosal76

zappatton2 said:


> Many many moons ago, yes!



Remember Larry from Beat Street Music? Every few months or so, he would showcase brand new, U.S. custom B.C. Rich guitars/basses on the forum. Man, some of those guitars he specced out were freaking nice. Those were the good times.


----------



## zappatton2

Rosal76 said:


> Remember Larry from Beat Street Music? Every few months or so, he would showcase brand new, U.S. custom B.C. Rich guitars/basses on the forum. Man, some of those guitars he specced out were freaking nice. Those were the good times.


He's the very guy I ordered my Beast from! It was a weird situation; I ordered through him, paid it off in advance, but after BCR finished the guitar, they sold it to another dealer!! Thankfully, Larry fought tooth and nail to get it back for me. And neither one of us would have been any the wiser had I not seen the very guitar I custom ordered in a picture from NAMM that year (2007).


----------



## Rosal76

zappatton2 said:


> He's the very guy I ordered my Beast from!



Mine, too. I called him up and told him I was interested in the Beast that he showcased on the forum. Larry was like, "how did you know I have a Beast? It's not on the Beat Street Music Ebay store yet?" And I told him he showed it on the unofficial B.C.R. forum and told him I saw it and wanted it. LOL. Around the same time, he specced/showcased a Warlock 2 that I also wanted. It had the reverse in-line curve headstock and the body is red. Really, really wanted it but I already had 3 U.S. Warlocks and didn't have a Beast. B.C. Rich: Where decisions are a bitch. LOL.



zappatton2 said:


> Thankfully, Larry fought tooth and nail to get it back for me.



Larry is freaking awesome. He did everything he could to get what customers wanted as cheap and as fast as possible. What I also liked about him is that he was not in favor of a specific generation style in the B.C. Rich timeline. Some people like the older B.C.R.'s, some like the 80 style, some the 90's, some the 21th century. He specced/ordered his U.S. custom shop models so they spanned all generations. One day, he has a classic Supreme Bich that looked like it came straight from the 80's and then the next month, a modern Beast. He's a very outstanding individual.


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's non-alcoholic?



Yes, that's the one not called "beer"


----------



## Mathemagician

zappatton2 said:


> He's the very guy I ordered my Beast from! It was a weird situation; I ordered through him, paid it off in advance, but after BCR finished the guitar, they sold it to another dealer!! Thankfully, Larry fought tooth and nail to get it back for me. And neither one of us would have been any the wiser had I not seen the very guitar I custom ordered in a picture from NAMM that year (2007).




Wait BCR did what? I know mistakes happen and all that. But you don’t “accidentally” take a custom order to NAAM and “forget” it was a purchased order.


----------



## possumkiller

Mathemagician said:


> Wait BCR did what? I know mistakes happen and all that. But you don’t “accidentally” take a custom order to NAAM and “forget” it was a purchased order.


Apparently you do. Vik did it.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

possumkiller said:


> Apparently you do. Vik did it.


Let's not pretend Vik is a high bar to set for not being a horrible human being though.

http://loudwire.com/periphery-cut-ties-vik-guitars-homophobic-remarks-against-cynic/


----------



## possumkiller

I want to say I read some shady NAMM shit about kiesel too. I think something about gutting a customer's build to finish a show guitar.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

possumkiller said:


> I want to say I read some shady NAMM shit about kiesel too. I think something about gutting a customer's build to finish a show guitar.


You mean the same Kiesel this forum has been collecting horror stories about for the last few years?

Next you'll be bringing up Rotor, Siggery, or Hufschmidt...


----------



## possumkiller

GuitarBizarre said:


> Next you'll be bringing up Rotor, Siggery, or Hufschmidt...


So what you're saying is shady douchebaggery is actually quite common in the guitar industry?


----------



## GuitarBizarre

possumkiller said:


> So what you're saying is shady douchebaggery is actually quite common in the guitar industry?


Amazingly enough, yes, yes it is.


----------



## Vhyle

possumkiller said:


> I want to say I read some shady NAMM shit about kiesel too. I think something about gutting a customer's build to finish a show guitar.



Yeah, that was on this forum, in the "Kiesel - Never Again!" thread.


----------



## bostjan

GuitarBizarre said:


> You mean the same Kiesel this forum has been collecting horror stories about for the last few years?
> 
> Next you'll be bringing up Rotor, Siggery, or Hufschmidt...



And that's just the random highlights.  If you tried to make a list of all of the guitar builders out there who pulled shady stuff on customers, you'd be busy for the rest of eternity. I guess that's why there is a sort of spectrum of how relatively shitty a shady thing is, and how our standards as customers might be at an all-time low right now.


----------



## Rosal76

Mathemagician said:


> Wait BCR did what? I know mistakes happen and all that. But you don’t “accidentally” take a custom order to NAAM and “forget” it was a purchased order.



Jackson guitars did it to Randy Rhoads. They built his third custom shop V and accidentally sent it to the NAMM show. Customer saw it, purchased it and then one of the employees who knew who the guitar was for freaked out. Edit: It's been a long time since I read the story but I "think" that his guitar was meant to be at the NAMM show but not to be sold. They ran the story in Guitar World magazine years ago but I'm sure you can find the detailed story online. Unfortunately, Randy had died in the coming months so there wasn't any repercussions from him.

Randy's third Jackson guitar.





Kerry King also got screwed by B.C. Rich in a somewhat similar fashion. According to Kerry, he had ordered a custom shop Mockingbird and they sent his guitar to a store. This was before he was getting guitars for free and actually had to pay like everyone else. Someone out there has Kerry's long lost Mockingbird.


----------



## Mathemagician

Probably why he wrote off the shape and refused to play it live ever again forever.


----------



## twguitar

BC Rich are going through a hard time at the moment but there is an announcement coming soon people should be excited about. BCR are a difficult brand, they build their way up with the highest quality instruments around but the Ricos just constantly want to make more money which started the imports that eventually just dragged the name down. The world doesn't need another shitty $200 warlock!
The current owners Hanser/HHI have lost interest but the current Custom Shop is doing really well. Ron Estrada is building some killer guitars and Slash keeps ordering more and more so something must be going right.


----------



## cwhitey2

twguitar said:


> The current owners Hanser/HHI have lost interest but the current Custom Shop is doing really well. Ron Estrada is building some killer guitars and Slash keeps ordering more and more so something must be going right.



Sources?


----------



## twguitar

cwhitey2 said:


> Sources?


Im good friends with the guys at BCR, check out the Custom Shop page 
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBCRichCustomShop/


----------



## MaxOfMetal

There is of course no greater paragon of guitar knowledge than Slash.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Vhyle said:


> Yeah, that was on this forum, in the "Kiesel - Never Again!" thread.



Arguably the most cancerous thread on SS


----------



## jwguitar

electriceye said:


> I was skeptical when a new owner took over licensing of the brand two years ago. They came out with a very limited lineup and some hideous finishes. Promised a lot more in the year that followed. Since then, no real new updates. Their twitter and FB accounts are virtually dormant. I know there was/is someone on here who had some insider knowledge, so hoping he can pprovide some insight. As a lifeling BCR fanboy, the past 15 years of the brand flopping around on life support has been sad to see. They completely missed out on the superstrat revival and just can't seem to do anything that registers with people anymore outside of 13-year-old metalheads. It's as if they've disappeared.



They were much better off when Hanser was selling them. It seems they were pushed aside by Praxis (Sterling guitars) and they wanted dealers to put down a lot of money to continue being a dealer.


----------



## Rosal76

twguitar said:


> Im good friends with the guys at BCR, check out the Custom Shop page
> https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBCRichCustomShop/



I check out the B.C. Rich custom shop Facebook page daily and they are putting out beautiful guitars. The Koa top Warlock that they built is absolutely gorgeous. I saw the neck with the Beast headstock and crown inlays and can't wait to see the finished guitar. I'm gonna assume that the finished guitar will be a Beast.


----------



## jwguitar

Rosal76 said:


> I check out the B.C. Rich custom shop Facebook page daily and they are putting out beautiful guitars. The Koa top Warlock that they built is absolutely gorgeous. I saw the neck with the Beast headstock and crown inlays and can't wait to see the finished guitar. I'm gonna assume that the finished guitar will be a Beast.


Ill have to check that out. Thanks for letting me know about that.


----------



## twguitar

Rosal76 said:


> I check out the B.C. Rich custom shop Facebook page daily and they are putting out beautiful guitars. The Koa top Warlock that they built is absolutely gorgeous. I saw the neck with the Beast headstock and crown inlays and can't wait to see the finished guitar. I'm gonna assume that the finished guitar will be a Beast.



That ones a 7 string Ironbird, not usually a fan of the widow/beast headstock but it looks kilelr


----------



## Rosal76

twguitar said:


> That ones a 7 string Ironbird, not usually a fan of the widow/beast headstock but it looks kilelr



I love it!!! That's a combination that's definitely subjective within fans but I'd love to have one.


----------



## Viginez

worst headstock for a ironbird


----------



## lewis

that headstock is actually my preference for their pointy guitars.

The spider/ballsack headstock version is DREADFUL
my 2nd choice would be the in line point headstock


----------



## Chiba666

In line or reverse inline


----------



## possumkiller

lewis said:


> that headstock is actually my preference for their pointy guitars.
> 
> The spider/ballsack headstock version is DREADFUL
> my 2nd choice would be the in line point headstock


Didn't Ed Roman design the widow headstock?


----------



## Cynicanal

He likes to claim that, but I'm pretty sure it was Brian Hoffman .


----------



## Vhyle

Cynicanal said:


> He likes to claim that, but I'm pretty sure it was Brian Hoffman .



I could be wrong, but I don't think so. Brian designed the Beast, which has a different headstock than the Widow.


----------



## Vyn

twguitar said:


> That ones a 7 string Ironbird, not usually a fan of the widow/beast headstock but it looks kilelr



I'm less mad than I thought I would be seeing that. Actually kinda dig it a lot.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> Didn't Ed Roman design the widow headstock?



It was Blackie Lawless from WASP.


----------



## possumkiller

MaxOfMetal said:


> It was Blackie Lawless from WASP.


I'm not sure if it's more racist for a white person or a black person to have that name...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> I'm not sure if it's more racist for a white person or a black person to have that name...



It was originally a name with non-racial connotations. From Scotland I think.


----------



## possumkiller

MaxOfMetal said:


> It was originally a name with non-racial connotations. From Scotland I think.


Still though. Dude needs to get with the times and change his name to something less racist. I get it. You can't choose the name your parents gave you but you can change it when you're of legal age. Could you imagine someone trying to get his attention on a crowded street having to shout, "hey Blackie!"?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> Still though. Dude needs to get with the times and change his name to something less racist. I get it. You can't choose the name your parents gave you but you can change it when you're of legal age. Could you imagine someone trying to get his attention on a crowded street having to shout, "hey Blackie!"?



It's not his given name or anything. He chose it.


----------



## possumkiller

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's not his given name or anything. He chose it.


Yeah I'm just feigning offense and drama. Doing my sjw duty.


----------



## GuitarBizarre

possumkiller said:


> Yeah I'm just feigning offense and drama. Doing my sjw duty.


You're aware that a sizable amount of the "SJW Outrage" you see online is people making this joke and other people not getting it, right?


----------



## possumkiller

Not getting what?


----------



## Vhyle

possumkiller said:


> Not getting what?



ayyyyyyy


----------



## Andromalia

You never know. I was sure for decades that Andreas Kisser was a pseudonym.


----------



## Athor

Any news on this one? Still no official word or new rumors whats going on?


----------



## possumkiller

I heard BRJ was taking over again to get some of that good BCR rep to help build his own rep back up.



























But not really. I just made that up because it seems like something I'd hear.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

So as much as I hate Tone King, I watched something he posted about BC Rich up for sale by Praxis. Any thoughts on this? Who should take ownership of BC Rich to bring it back to it's former glory? (who can at this point?)


----------



## possumkiller

FMIC.


----------



## possumkiller

I would say Gibson should since Fender bought Jackson but I don't know if Gibson can buy anything else right now.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

possumkiller said:


> I would say Gibson should since Fender bought Jackson but I don't know if Gibson can buy anything else right now.



You know who should buy it? Ibanez. I know, crazy idea, but here's my reasoning:

FMIC has Charvel AND Jackson under their belt. Gibson, well, they are on life support waiting to die off. Ibanez has never gone outside of their comfort zone in a situation like this, and they could easily make some cool MIJ warlocks and such (the old MTM Glaive, while functionally a little weird, was a COOL guitar). Also, the problem with Gibson taking ownership is that people have lost trust in the brand because of the ownership of the company. Ibanez still has lots of fans, and even people who aren't massive fans of the brand itself at least admit they make bad ass MIJ guitars. They also dont have the stigma of Gibson's debt overshadowing it.


----------



## Shoeless_jose

MatiasTolkki said:


> You know who should buy it? Ibanez. I know, crazy idea, but here's my reasoning:
> 
> FMIC has Charvel AND Jackson under their belt. Gibson, well, they are on life support waiting to die off. Ibanez has never gone outside of their comfort zone in a situation like this, and they could easily make some cool MIJ warlocks and such (the old MTM Glaive, while functionally a little weird, was a COOL guitar). Also, the problem with Gibson taking ownership is that people have lost trust in the brand because of the ownership of the company. Ibanez still has lots of fans, and even people who aren't massive fans of the brand itself at least admit they make bad ass MIJ guitars. They also dont have the stigma of Gibson's debt overshadowing it.



Gibson would never buy BCR and is hardly waiting to die off.

At this point is there even a market for BCR stuff?? Like I feel like most of the heavy music community has moved past the camo shorts and ultra pointy guitars thing or your guitar being called a bitch being edgy... maybe there would be more of a nostalgia factor than I am realizing but really this seems like something that just needs to die.... again.

And I know Gibson has been to the brink financially before, but they also have always made relatively good instruments, never were leaving customers with nothing and unfullfilled orders or just pumping out MIC stuff with the name on the headstock.

Theres so many good builders out there even if youre in love with a BCR shape get someone reliable to make it for you instead.


----------



## nyxzz

Plot twist - Kiesel buys BC Rich


----------



## Athor

Dineley said:


> Gibson would never buy BCR and is hardly waiting to die off.
> 
> At this point is there even a market for BCR stuff?? Like I feel like most of the heavy music community has moved past the camo shorts and ultra pointy guitars thing or your guitar being called a bitch being edgy... maybe there would be more of a nostalgia factor than I am realizing but really this seems like something that just needs to die.... again.
> 
> And I know Gibson has been to the brink financially before, but they also have always made relatively good instruments, never were leaving customers with nothing and unfullfilled orders or just pumping out MIC stuff with the name on the headstock.
> 
> Theres so many good builders out there even if youre in love with a BCR shape get someone reliable to make it for you instead.


Definetly a market for it. BCR Groups on Facebook has shit tons of members. 

Problem with Praxis BCR is that they have a very limited number of guitar shapes aviable and they charge to much. 

BCR had quite a few guitars way back that wasnt all pointy crazy shapes. If you ask me they had the best superstrats around to. 

Posted my Korean Guy Marchais for sale just to check the market and i got some crazy trade offers for it. Kinda funny, never parting with it tho. Kills any other Superstrat ive played the last 10 years.


----------



## Athor

MatiasTolkki said:


> You know who should buy it? Ibanez. I know, crazy idea, but here's my reasoning:
> 
> FMIC has Charvel AND Jackson under their belt. Gibson, well, they are on life support waiting to die off. Ibanez has never gone outside of their comfort zone in a situation like this, and they could easily make some cool MIJ warlocks and such (the old MTM Glaive, while functionally a little weird, was a COOL guitar). Also, the problem with Gibson taking ownership is that people have lost trust in the brand because of the ownership of the company. Ibanez still has lots of fans, and even people who aren't massive fans of the brand itself at least admit they make bad ass MIJ guitars. They also dont have the stigma of Gibson's debt overshadowing it.


MIJ BCR? Im up for that. 

Make it happen Sir.


----------



## Edika

I don't know, if they put models with the quality, aesthetics and price range of the 2006-2010 NJ deluxe and pro series I'd buy a couple. I had a NJ Deluxe jrV and I'm kicking myself for selling it. I got a 7 string Stealth, the Marc Rizzo model, and it slays.


----------



## Cynicanal

Dineley said:


> Gibson would never buy BCR and is hardly waiting to die off.
> 
> At this point is there even a market for BCR stuff?? Like I feel like most of the heavy music community has moved past the camo shorts and ultra pointy guitars thing or your guitar being called a bitch being edgy... maybe there would be more of a nostalgia factor than I am realizing but really this seems like something that just needs to die.... again.
> 
> And I know Gibson has been to the brink financially before, but they also have always made relatively good instruments, never were leaving customers with nothing and unfullfilled orders or just pumping out MIC stuff with the name on the headstock.
> 
> Theres so many good builders out there even if youre in love with a BCR shape get someone reliable to make it for you instead.


There's a lot of nostalgia for BC Rich stuff; you'd be surprised at how much classic NJ Series guitars (from when they were actually made in Japan) go for nowadays. Frequently over $1k.

I don't see Ibby buying B.C. Rich though; buying out competitors doesn't seem to be their style, and BC Rich is practically synonymous with "neck through". ESP would be a more likely choice, but I don't see that happening either. In a just world, Neal Moser would get those rights, but sadly, we don't live in a world that cool.

(Pointy guitars will always be cooler than boring superstrats.)


----------



## wedge_destroyer

I don't care who buys it, as long as they start to make neck thru Stealths and Ironbirds again.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Maybe BCR will just die out? Gibson as we all know is prob not gonna buy them due to their financial situations and Ibanez as someone had said earlier has never gone out of their confort zone, so why now? 

I just think they will die out. The only significant endorsee of BCR is Kerry King. That is it


----------



## Athor

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Maybe BCR will just die out? Gibson as we all know is prob not gonna buy them due to their financial situations and Ibanez as someone had said earlier has never gone out of their confort zone, so why now?
> 
> I just think they will die out. The only significant endorsee of BCR is Kerry King. That is it


Pre Praxis they did actually have quite a few signature models out there. But then PRAXIS happened and they fucked it up


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Athor said:


> Pre Praxis they did actually have quite a few signature models out there. But then PRAXIS happened and they fucked it up



Yeah I guess. Maybe they might buy it then to feed into kind of the more extreme market? Like Warrior type shapes and such? Wouldn't be such a bad thing if they did that now if I think about it


----------



## wedge_destroyer

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yeah I guess. Maybe they might buy it then to feed into kind of the more extreme market? Like Warrior type shapes and such? Wouldn't be such a bad thing if they did that now if I think about it



That's the thing they had the original warrior-esque shapes (see my previous post), ignored them and others (*cough* Ignitor *cough*) during the majority of the HHI days, whilst running Asm, Assassin, and Gunslinger lines concurrently.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

wedge_destroyer said:


> That's the thing they had the original warrior-esque shapes (see my previous post), ignored them and others (*cough* Ignitor *cough*) during the majority of the HHI days, whilst running Asm, Assassin, and Gunslinger lines concurrently.



Yea the Xiphos. Would be great if they offered something like that again since Jackson doesn't have something similar that I like


----------



## Cynicanal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> The only significant endorsee of BCR is Kerry King. That is it


The following is an even more insane and ridiculous thought than anything else in the last page, but remember when Mustaine tried to buy Jackson when they were up for sale? With Kerry's impending retirement from Slayer (and, presumably, touring and recording in general), maybe it's time for him to pull it off with BCR?


----------



## NateFalcon

Trey Azagthoth from Morbid Angel also plays Ironbirds (not a major endorsee, I know)...whoever attempts to jumpstart BC Rich needs to bring an import line to the table similar to the mid to late 80’s NJ series...I really believe in my mind when the ‘widow’ headstock became the standard BCR image, they became synonymous with low quality and teenage learner guitars- and stepping up to the Deluxe models still left you with (imo) too much inlay, binding and really thick, plastic-y poly finishes similar to the LTD and Schecter stuff. Kerry King sig tribal graphics didn’t help -in fact, I don’t think KK helps BCR at all...Marketing is tricky, but I think now could be a good time for them to bring back some stripped down, in-line headstock models with nice tops and the classic electronics with boosters, splitters etc...I think the classic “R” headstock logo would be a fresh move, too...bring back the harpoon headstock?...


----------



## sirbuh

NateFalcon said:


> Trey Azagthoth from Morbid Angel also plays Ironbirds (not a major endorsee, I know).



Trey has been none too happy with BCR for sometime. #funfact 
Red Ironbirds would get some interest.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

NateFalcon said:


> Trey Azagthoth from Morbid Angel also plays Ironbirds (not a major endorsee, I know)...whoever attempts to jumpstart BC Rich needs to bring an import line to the table similar to the mid to late 80’s NJ series...I really believe in my mind when the ‘widow’ headstock became the standard BCR image, they became synonymous with low quality and teenage learner guitars- and stepping up to the Deluxe models still left you with (imo) too much inlay, binding and really thick, plastic-y poly finishes similar to the LTD and Schecter stuff. Kerry King sig tribal graphics didn’t help -in fact, I don’t think KK helps BCR at all...Marketing is tricky, but I think now could be a good time for them to bring back some stripped down, in-line headstock models with nice tops and the classic electronics with boosters, splitters etc...I think the classic “R” headstock logo would be a fresh move, too...bring back the harpoon headstock?...
> View attachment 61614


I would do terrible things for an ironbird with that headstock.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Kerry's gonna buy them with all the money they'll rake in with their retirement tour.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Cynicanal said:


> The following is an even more insane and ridiculous thought than anything else in the last page, but remember when Mustaine tried to buy Jackson when they were up for sale? With Kerry's impending retirement from Slayer (and, presumably, touring and recording in general), maybe it's time for him to pull it off with BCR?




Yea I remember Mustaine trying to buy jackson. It would have been better in Mustaine's case with Jackson since it is a thriving brand that tons of people love and stand by. BCR on the other hand, I can't offer a full opinion on it, but I don't see many people standing by the brand and such. Back in the day they had tons of endorsees, but nowadays it is just on life support. I think once slayer retires and KK is done aswell the plug will be pulled on BCR.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

I don't know I did a trade feeler on a local buy sell trade with a couple of mine a few weeks back and got about 8 inquiries in about 20 minutes so some people do want them, they just didn't have what I wanted or thought I could flip easily.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yea I remember Mustaine trying to buy jackson. It would have been better in Mustaine's case with Jackson since it is a thriving brand that tons of people love and stand by. BCR on the other hand, I can't offer a full opinion on it, but I don't see many people standing by the brand and such. Back in the day they had tons of endorsees, but nowadays it is just on life support. I think once slayer retires and KK is done aswell the plug will be pulled on BCR.



There was a reason Jackson was looking for a buyer. They were floundering for years. Heck, until maybe five years ago they were still not doing well and that's with FMIC ownership.

EDIT:
The more I think about it, pre-FMIC buyout Jackson is a great analog for BCR.


----------



## possumkiller

Kerry King will buy BCR then change the name to King Audio and make a huge range of disgusting imported sig models.

Just imagine the possible atrocities that could happen combining the aesthetics of BCR and Kiesel.


----------



## possumkiller

Dave Mustaine should buy BCR since he couldn't buy Jackson. Then he could have a Bich sig model like the old days.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

possumkiller said:


> Kerry King will buy BCR then change the name to King Audio and make a huge range of disgusting imported sig models.
> 
> Just imagine the possible atrocities that could happen combining the aesthetics of BCR and Kiesel.




So basically like what Zakk Wylde did when he left gibson? Wylde Audio turned to making a huge range of ugly guitars and such


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> There was a reason Jackson was looking for a buyer. They were floundering for years. Heck, until maybe five years ago they were still not doing well and that's with FMIC ownership.
> 
> EDIT:
> The more I think about it, pre-FMIC buyout Jackson is a great analog for BCR.




Hm I guess then. All I know is that I love jackson all the way


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hm I guess then. All I know is that I love jackson all the way



I think Jackson is great too. Just calling a spade a spade.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think Jackson is great too. Just calling a spade a spade.




Yea, kind of my fault for not being that knowledgeable about the business side/dealings of Jackson.


----------



## jl-austin

They just need to come out with another Gunslinger model. Sure there are tons of super strats already on the market, but that is what sells. I am not saying abandon their current line up, just add a gunslinger.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

jl-austin said:


> They just need to come out with another Gunslinger model. Sure there are tons of super strats already on the market, but that is what sells. I am not saying abandon their current line up, just add a gunslinger.




I couldn't agree more. I love my super strat jacksons and the like, but the market is over staturated. I can't speak for other brands as I do not pay attention to them, but Jackson doesn't have any Warriors or Kelly shaped guitars in the pro series range. They have them in the X series, but not in the pro series? I don't feel like forking out a ton of money for a USA, and still can't believe they don't have any options for that.

I would kill if Mick Thomson came out with a King V or Warrior in the same format as his soloist. Me pulling the trigger on something like that would be fucking insanse.


----------



## jl-austin

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I couldn't agree more. I love my super strat jacksons and the like, but the market is over staturated. I can't speak for other brands as I do not pay attention to them, but Jackson doesn't have any Warriors or Kelly shaped guitars in the pro series range. They have them in the X series, but not in the pro series? I don't feel like forking out a ton of money for a USA, and still can't believe they don't have any options for that.
> 
> I would kill if Mick Thomson came out with a King V or Warrior in the same format as his soloist. Me pulling the trigger on something like that would be fucking insanse.



Exactly, even Jackson (FMIC) knows that there is only so much market for "oddly shaped" guitars. It's great that BC Rich is doing that. But they need to get their bread and butter from something like the Jackson X-series in the shape of Gunslingers.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

jl-austin said:


> Exactly, even Jackson (FMIC) knows that there is only so much market for "oddly shaped" guitars. It's great that BC Rich is doing that. But they need to get their bread and butter from something like the Jackson X-series in the shape of Gunslingers.




Yeah. Jackson has been doing King V's in the pro series and such, but no Warriors and Kellys! I don't want to buy from the X series line since I believe it is shit and don't feel like downgrading the standard in terms of quality of the guitars that I buy, put a ton of money into upgrading them just to accomodate for what they are lacking. Kind of pisses me off that Jackson doesn't listen to people in that regard.

As far as the gunslinger and x series thing, I can agree to some degree. I like the affordability of things, but if the quality of the product is shit, then I could give less of a shit about it. I rather prefer they have something that is in the $800-$1200 range that is *quality * and *worth the money * whilst still being *affordable to general public* and last, but not least *something that the public wants.*

Whoever takes over BCR and follows those principles I could see it being a thriving brand.


----------



## bostjan

I mean, Jackson's alternative shapes are great and all, but BCR really kind of started the entire game. They honestly weren't the butt of every joke until the early-mid 2000's.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

bostjan said:


> I mean, Jackson's alternative shapes are great and all, but BCR really kind of started the entire game. They honestly weren't the butt of every joke until the early-mid 2000's.




Yeah the warrior-esque shape came from BCR I believe. The thing is though is that I think Jackson kind of does it better. Some of the BCR shapes are well, to put it this way hideous


----------



## bostjan

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yeah the warrior-esque shape came from BCR I believe. The thing is though is that I think Jackson kind of does it better. Some of the BCR shapes are well, to put it this way hideous


I won't argue that; however, a company can make whatever the fuck they want, and I won't care, so long as they supply me with what I want. So, if BCR makes a Stealth that suits your needs, and also a Mockingbird that suits my needs, that you don't like yourself, I don't see why it's not win-win - just don't buy the guitars you don't want to buy. 

The stealth is probably the most unusual shape to be so copied: the warrior, the xiphos, even BCR's ironbird was basically a pointy version of their own stealth...

But if I want a mockingbird, my options are BCR or ... well, that's it.

Also, way back in the 1990's, I snagged a Bernie Senior made ST-III for $600. Kind of pricey at the time, but certainly not outrageous, and it's one of the nicest guitars I've had. Ebony board, Kahler trem, boost, neckthrough, impeccable finish, plays like buttah. Honestly, the only thing that didn't thrill me, at the time, was that it was a rather boring shape.


----------



## jl-austin

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> As far as the gunslinger and x series thing, I can agree to some degree. I like the affordability of things, but if the quality of the product is shit, then I could give less of a shit about it. I rather prefer they have something that is in the $800-$1200 range that is *quality * and *worth the money * whilst still being *affordable to general public* and last, but not least *something that the public wants.*
> 
> Whoever takes over BCR and follows those principles I could see it being a thriving brand.



I get that. I am not saying you should buy an X-series. I am just saying that "getting exposure" for the brand by making mid-level super strats would be a good thing for BCR. About Jackson, to be honest I am surprised that they don't have a pro Kelly. At least one. Or maybe a warrior.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

bostjan said:


> I won't argue that; however, a company can make whatever the fuck they want, and I won't care, so long as they supply me with what I want. So, if BCR makes a Stealth that suits your needs, and also a Mockingbird that suits my needs, that you don't like yourself, I don't see why it's not win-win - just don't buy the guitars you don't want to buy.
> 
> The stealth is probably the most unusual shape to be so copied: the warrior, the xiphos, even BCR's ironbird was basically a pointy version of their own stealth...
> 
> But if I want a mockingbird, my options are BCR or ... well, that's it.
> 
> Also, way back in the 1990's, I snagged a Bernie Senior made ST-III for $600. Kind of pricey at the time, but certainly not outrageous, and it's one of the nicest guitars I've had. Ebony board, Kahler trem, boost, neckthrough, impeccable finish, plays like buttah. Honestly, the only thing that didn't thrill me, at the time, was that it was a rather boring shape.




I agree. Although I can respect that BCR practically created pointy shapes and headstocks, I prefer the Jackson look more. Although I had looked at a BCR V deluxe I think is what it was called? Looked very nice and the headstock was menacing!

Personally I don't like a lot of BCR's stuff except for the V's and such. Warlock is pretty sick too. I think what works best for me is Jackson all the way. I get my super strat or Super extreme shape and I like all of it. The headstock and other aesthetic appointments. 

Schecter would be a second, but some things I don't like and some things I prefer compared to Jackson. For me it is mainly shredder/super strat type guitars that suit me well. I don't plan on owning a V anytime soon (unless I am gassing for one real bad where I will overlook how to play with it sitting down) because I mainly play sitting down and the V's from what I heard are not the bes if you sit down.

At the end of the day it is all personal preference. Some like Khaler bridges, some like Floyds, some like neither. Some like Gibson while others like Fender, while others don't care for either. Some like active pickups others don't. 

That list could go on for days man. The two types of people kind of thing


----------



## Mathemagician

Yeah i’d like to see an iron bird with slightly beveled edges like Jackson does on some of their warriors/Rhoads. Reverse inline, black hardware. What’s up. The gunslinger though could EASILY be a bread and butter at every price point guitar. The warlock could be bifurcated to “Ltd 100-200 Level/ Ltd600-800 Level” and then a 1.2k ish version. They don’t need 15+ SKU’s below $1.2 in a given year. 3 colors at 3 price points would be 9 right there. 

Doesn’t NEED a crazy top or SS frets if it’s in the $1k-1.2k price range. Just name brand hardware & pickups. 

Jackson won’t play there with non-sig pros because they think people will all file in line to buy $2.2-3k USA’s. 

So Schecter just runs the roost along with quite a few ESP E-II’s at that price point. 

But I concede without knowing anything about their financials none of this may be feasible and it’s likeky it’s all been discussed in a board room somewhere before.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Mathemagician said:


> ackson won’t play there with non-sig pros because they think people will all file in line to buy $2.2-3k USA’s.
> 
> So Schecter just runs the roost along with quite a few ESP E-II’s at that price point.
> 
> But I concede without knowing anything about their financials none of this may be feasible and it’s likeky it’s all been discussed in a board room somewhere before.



Exactly. If I wanted a shredder guitar for $1500 and Used wasn't an option I would get an E-II


----------



## MatiasTolkki

bostjan said:


> I won't argue that; however, a company can make whatever the fuck they want, and I won't care, so long as they supply me with what I want. So, if BCR makes a Stealth that suits your needs, and also a Mockingbird that suits my needs, that you don't like yourself, I don't see why it's not win-win - just don't buy the guitars you don't want to buy.
> 
> The stealth is probably the most unusual shape to be so copied: the warrior, the xiphos, even BCR's ironbird was basically a pointy version of their own stealth...
> 
> But if I want a mockingbird, my options are BCR or ... well, that's it.
> 
> Also, way back in the 1990's, I snagged a Bernie Senior made ST-III for $600. Kind of pricey at the time, but certainly not outrageous, and it's one of the nicest guitars I've had. Ebony board, Kahler trem, boost, neckthrough, impeccable finish, plays like buttah. Honestly, the only thing that didn't thrill me, at the time, was that it was a rather boring shape.



In Japan anyway, Fernandes' HIDE signature model is based on the BCR mockingbird

http://www.fernandes.co.jp/products/artist_model/hide-x.html


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

It'd be a real bummer if BCR just goes under, they're the only ones out there still making cool looking shapes. Superstrats/teles and LPs are all so boring and over done at this point. Bring back the pointy out-there shapes with cool finishes.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> It'd be a real bummer if BCR just goes under, they're the only ones out there still making cool looking shapes. Superstrats/teles and LPs are all so boring and over done at this point. Bring back the pointy out-there shapes with cool finishes.



Say what you will about that douchenozzle Jeff Kiesel, I still think the V220 is one of the cooler V shapes out there (luckily that was Mark's idea).


----------



## groverj3

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yea I remember Mustaine trying to buy jackson. It would have been better in Mustaine's case with Jackson since it is a thriving brand that tons of people love and stand by. BCR on the other hand, I can't offer a full opinion on it, but I don't see many people standing by the brand and such. Back in the day they had tons of endorsees, but nowadays it is just on life support. I think once slayer retires and KK is done aswell the plug will be pulled on BCR.


Mustaine buying Jackson would've been a catasrophe. The man knows nothing about running a business, nobody likes to work with him, and he can't keep himself from sticking his foot in his mouth and looking like a moron. The guy went on Alex Jones' show . It worked out in everyone's favor that he didn't end up buying the brand. Not that I think you're saying so. There are people out there who think that the FMIC buyout was Jackson "selling out" (there are a good few over on JCFOnline, that mostly dead J/C forum), rather than the brand being saved because it was in the gutter.


MaxOfMetal said:


> There was a reason Jackson was looking for a buyer. They were floundering for years. Heck, until maybe five years ago they were still not doing well and that's with FMIC ownership.
> 
> EDIT:
> The more I think about it, pre-FMIC buyout Jackson is a great analog for BCR.


For sure. They were managed pretty poorly throughout the 90s, and most of their best selling models didn't really make them any money (the MIJ stuff). I love my Jacksons, but they were thiiiis close to biting the dust before FMIC took over. Instead FMIC keeps them alive to get a brand in the metal world with a well-known name. There have been changes, especially since the Japanese pro series was discontinued, but that was inevitable due to the exact nonexistant profit margins that put them in trouble in the first place.

It sounds crazy, but I do think Gibson buying the name/company after their bankruptcy stuff is sorted could be a real possibility. Use them and Kramer (don't they already own Kramer?) the way FMIC uses Jackson and Charvel.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

groverj3 said:


> Mustaine buying Jackson would've been a catasrophe. The man knows nothing about running a business, nobody likes to work with him, and he can't keep himself from sticking his foot in his mouth and looking like a moron. The guy went on Alex Jones' show . It worked out in everyone's favor that he didn't end up buying the brand. Not that I think you're saying so. There are people out there who think that the FMIC buyout was Jackson "selling out" (there are a good few over on JCFOnline, that mostly dead J/C forum), rather than the brand being saved because it was in the gutter.



Hey does say some fucking stupid shit sometimes I will agree witht that. Also you are correct about him and his business skills. Also I agree aswell that the JCFONLINE forum is fucking dead. Go on there and there is maybe 10 people on? 8 of them guests, lol


----------



## MatiasTolkki

groverj3 said:


> Mustaine buying Jackson would've been a catasrophe. The man knows nothing about running a business, nobody likes to work with him, and he can't keep himself from sticking his foot in his mouth and looking like a moron. The guy went on Alex Jones' show . It worked out in everyone's favor that he didn't end up buying the brand. Not that I think you're saying so. There are people out there who think that the FMIC buyout was Jackson "selling out" (there are a good few over on JCFOnline, that mostly dead J/C forum), rather than the brand being saved because it was in the gutter.
> 
> For sure. They were managed pretty poorly throughout the 90s, and most of their best selling models didn't really make them any money (the MIJ stuff). I love my Jacksons, but they were thiiiis close to biting the dust before FMIC took over. Instead FMIC keeps them alive to get a brand in the metal world with a well-known name. There have been changes, especially since the Japanese pro series was discontinued, but that was inevitable due to the exact nonexistant profit margins that put them in trouble in the first place.
> 
> It sounds crazy, but I do think Gibson buying the name/company after their bankruptcy stuff is sorted could be a real possibility. Use them and Kramer (don't they already own Kramer?) the way FMIC uses Jackson and Charvel.



Gibson only uses Kramer for cheap chinese guitars, nothing of real merit, which is why the Kramer brand is basically dead. If Gibson had someone with half the brains of the guys at FMIC, it might work, but their idiot president isn't leaving even after driving the company into bankruptcy.


----------



## Andromalia

I don't know about his business skills, guy got a pretty penny out of his band.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MatiasTolkki said:


> Gibson only uses Kramer for cheap chinese guitars, nothing of real merit, which is why the Kramer brand is basically dead. If Gibson had someone with half the brains of the guys at FMIC, it might work, but their idiot president isn't leaving even after driving the company into bankruptcy.



Hence why which one is filing chapter 11 while the other one has multiple successful brands under its belt.

Also can't believe henry isn't leaving. Like wtf!?!?!?


----------



## MatiasTolkki

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hence why which one is filing chapter 11 while the other one has multiple successful brands under its belt.
> 
> Also can't believe henry isn't leaving. Like wtf!?!?!?



I'm so with you on that. they're letting a legendary name die and the shareholders aren't demanding the immediate resignation of the CEO? Makes zero sense.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hence why which one is filing chapter 11 while the other one has multiple successful brands under its belt.
> 
> Also can't believe henry isn't leaving. Like wtf!?!?!?



Things aren't too rosy over at Fender either.

They just failed to launch an IPO and have over $250 million in debt that they don't know exactly what to do with.



MatiasTolkki said:


> I'm so with you on that. they're letting a legendary name die and the shareholders aren't demanding the immediate resignation of the CEO? Makes zero sense.



Nothing is "dieing" about the Gibson name. Gibson has failed financially in the past and the guitar arm of the business tends to bounce back better than before.

Also, Gibson is a privately held company, Henry and Berryman own it outright.

The idea that Henry blindly ran Gibson into the ground is a myth. He, and his two partners, bought Gibson outright in 1986 (over 30 years ago!) for $5 million and turned it into an industry behemoth. The problem was that they tried to shift into a lifestyle brand too slowly without having the capital to invest in the not-guitar business to grow it to profitability. The idea itself isn't bad, with guitar sales accross the board declining for all brands, diverse revenue streams are good.


----------



## possumkiller

I don't know what happened to Henry since 1986 but he definitely went way the hell out into lala land. He seriously has no clue what customers want. He said nobody wants a cheap Gibson. Seriously? No. Nobody wants a shitty Gibson. People love cheap Gibsons. Look at how popular the Special, Jr., and Melody Maker lines are. People would love to get a cheaper Gibson without a bunch of robo horse shit and a higher price tacked on. People want you to do what you do and do it well. Build classic guitars. Save the experiments for custom shop and limited edition stuff.


----------



## possumkiller

Also people always gripe about why the Epiphones can't use the Gibson headstock. 

It's because Gibson would sue.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> I don't know what happened to Henry since 1986 but he definitely went way the hell out into lala land. He seriously has no clue what customers want. He said nobody wants a cheap Gibson. Seriously? No. Nobody wants a shitty Gibson. People love cheap Gibsons. Look at how popular the Special, Jr., and Melody Maker lines are. People would love to get a cheaper Gibson without a bunch of robo horse shit and a higher price tacked on. People want you to do what you do and do it well. Build classic guitars. Save the experiments for custom shop and limited edition stuff.



Cheap Gibsons don't sell as well anymore. Some _cheaper_ lines do decently, but they're propped up by the higher end stuff.

You can only make a Gibson so cheap while still being good relative to other guitars available in the same price range and remaining profitable. Remember the $400 MMs?

Though, they're not expensive to begin with. You can get a carved top, bound Les Paul for $2k and if don't care about binding, $1k. You can't even buy a guitar that says "ESP" on the front of the headstock for that. 



possumkiller said:


> Also people always gripe about why the Epiphones can't use the Gibson headstock.
> 
> It's because Gibson would sue.



It's to stop counterfeiting.

Epiphone Les Pauls originally used the Gibson "Open Book" headstock, but had to stop because of tons of counterfeiting. Same with the old Orville line from Japan.


----------



## possumkiller

MaxOfMetal said:


> Cheap Gibsons don't sell as well anymore. Some _cheaper_ lines do decently, but they're propped up by the higher end stuff.
> 
> You can only make a Gibson so cheap while still being good relative to other guitars available in the same price range and remaining profitable. Remember the $400 MMs?
> 
> Though, they're not expensive to begin with. You can get a carved top, bound Les Paul for $2k and if don't care about binding, $1k. You can't even buy a guitar that says "ESP" on the front of the headstock for that.
> 
> 
> 
> It's to stop counterfeiting.
> 
> Epiphone Les Pauls originally used the Gibson "Open Book" headstock, but had to stop because of tons of counterfeiting. Same with the old Orville line from Japan.


I don't know if they noticed but it didn't work. There are tons of counterfeit LPs with very well done Gibson headstocks. I think it's had the opposite effect. People buy a counterfeit LP because it's made in China just like an Epiphone only cheaper. You're still going to swap hardware and electronics anyway. Idk I think they should leave the hideous Epiphone headstock to some other company.


----------



## Andromalia

People who buy counterfeit Gibsons wouldn't have bought a real one anyway. 99% of chinese counterfeits are P.O.S and not only in the guitar department. I've seen more than one countefeit Rolex and, er.... no, a 50$ Seiko is better built.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> I don't know if they noticed but it didn't work. There are tons of counterfeit LPs with very well done Gibson headstocks. I think it's had the opposite effect. People buy a counterfeit LP because it's made in China just like an Epiphone only cheaper. You're still going to swap hardware and electronics anyway. Idk I think they should leave the hideous Epiphone headstock to some other company.



Just because they can't stop them, doesn't mean they should be feeding them. 

Counterfeits are better looking than they've ever been, but the quality is still pretty awful, but then again they're made to scam someone out of a couple hundred bucks, not be legitimately playable guitars. 

Have you played a recent Epi? The hardware and electronics are actually really good these days. In fact, Epiphones in general are killer guitars for the price and have been for some years now. 

I don't think the Epiphone headstocks are that bad, it's just the Gibson one with a couple less points. The Elitist ones are pretty fugly, but then again those are actually old pre-Gibson buyout Epiphone ones. 

People don't buy Epiphone because everyone knows it's a budget brand. Same reason people, until very recently, didn't buy Squires. There's a lot of baggage there. 

Also, people buy counterfeit Gibsons because they're either stupid, vain or a combination of the two.


----------



## manu80

let esp buy bc rich, so they can put that max cavalera sig under a name that sticks with the shape....


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

manu80 said:


> let esp buy bc rich, so they can put that max cavalera sig under a name that sticks with the shape....


Is BC Rich some sort of foreign word meaning "ugly"?


----------



## manu80

no. Cavalera does 
thing is it's a niche market, and I'm curious to see who would like to buy the brand. And it has no real known endorsee to help sales.... KK I know but...
I want wave, ironbird etc...not assasin or ginslinger shape... well you get the idea


----------



## bostjan

MatiasTolkki said:


> In Japan anyway, Fernandes' HIDE signature model is based on the BCR mockingbird
> 
> http://www.fernandes.co.jp/products/artist_model/hide-x.html


 Nice, umm, graphics there...hearts and "suck me/lick me" printed all over...classy 
I never knew that existed, though, or any Fernandez mockingbird.


----------



## snowblind56

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just because they can't stop them, doesn't mean they should be feeding them.
> 
> Counterfeits are better looking than they've ever been, but the quality is still pretty awful, but then again they're made to scam someone out of a couple hundred bucks, not be legitimately playable guitars.
> 
> Have you played a recent Epi? The hardware and electronics are actually really good these days. In fact, Epiphones in general are killer guitars for the price and have been for some years now.
> 
> I don't think the Epiphone headstocks are that bad, it's just the Gibson one with a couple less points. The Elitist ones are pretty fugly, but then again those are actually old pre-Gibson buyout Epiphone ones.
> 
> People don't buy Epiphone because everyone knows it's a budget brand. Same reason people, until very recently, didn't buy Squires. There's a lot of baggage there.
> 
> Also, people buy counterfeit Gibsons because they're either stupid, vain or a combination of the two.



They may use counterfeits as an excuse, but I really think if they put the Gibson headstock on an Epiphone, it would most likely seriously cut into the Gibson USA sales. Like you said, the hardware and electronics are really good and they are way more consistent in build quality than USA Gibson. Besides having a poly finish, they feel and sound exactly like a Gibson, the only difference is the uglier headstock.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bostjan said:


> Nice, umm, graphics there...hearts and "suck me/lick me" printed all over...classy
> I never knew that existed, though, or any Fernandez mockingbird.



I forget the exact deal, but Fernandes’ parent company owns the rights to build all kinds of stuff as long as it’s Japan only. I remember the Ibanez Iceman being another example.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

snowblind56 said:


> They may use counterfeits as an excuse, but I really think if they put the Gibson headstock on an Epiphone, it would most likely seriously cut into the Gibson USA sales. Like you said, the hardware and electronics are really good and they are way more consistent in build quality than USA Gibson. Besides having a poly finish, they feel and sound exactly like a Gibson, the only difference is the uglier headstock.



You’re not wrong.

Obviously if people could convince others they have a Gibson while actually having a cheap, Chinese built Epiphone they’d sell more. That’s partly what keeps the counterfeiters in business.

Folks want other folks to think they own a Gibson. It’s a status thing.

The Epiphone headstock isn’t bad, it’s that people know it’s an Epiphone from a mile away.

I also wouldn’t say that Epiphone are more consistent, they just aren’t under the microscope nearly as brutally due to expectations at that price point.


----------



## possumkiller

The Epiphone headstock looks like something a Japanese company would put on their LP knockoff so they won't get sued. It's pretty far off from the open book Gibson headstock. Look up a headstock conversion video or template overlays.

I don't buy the counterfeit deal. Gibson is literally the only builder that changes the headstock on its import line. Fender, PRS, Jackson, ESP, BCR, Dean, Schecter, Parker and Strandberg all get along just fine using the parent brand headstocks on the import lines. And if that was the case why don't they put different headstocks on the Epiphone Flying V, Explorer and Firebird models?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> The Epiphone headstock looks like something a Japanese company would put on their LP knockoff so they won't get sued. It's pretty far off from the open book Gibson headstock. Look up a headstock conversion video or template overlays.
> 
> I don't buy the counterfeit deal. Gibson is literally the only builder that changes the headstock on its import line. Fender, PRS, Jackson, ESP, BCR, Dean, Schecter, Parker and Strandberg all get along just fine using the parent brand headstocks on the import lines. And if that was the case why don't they put different headstocks on the Epiphone Flying V, Explorer and Firebird models?



You greatly underestimate how well those brands, in thier entirety, sell globally vs the Les Paul.

There are probably more counterfeit Les Pauls being sold right now than all the Strandbergs combined. Same with Parker. 

Fender used different headstocks for cheaper guitars for years, but went back to the same one. It’s been a gold mine for scammers. Just sand down and throw another decal on.

As for PRS, they go even further. They keep the headstock the same but don’t offer thier Core shape in an import, only bevel tops.

Chinese forgers would buy Epiphone and Orville Les Pauls and slide a thin overlay over them, use a little glue, and then have a perfect copy. I’ve seen a lot of these over the years.


----------



## musicaldeath

They need to do a Gunslinger model (everyone loves superstrats and even though I never played one from the heyday, they always looked badass). Also, superstrats sell. Solar guitars has done well with this - that is their primary model with a few different options on it.

They need to do an Eagle like Chris Poland had (I think Neil Moser made it for him waaaaay back in the day). Saw a video on YouTube of him playing it and talking about it... bad ass guitar.

Then do an Iron Bird and a Warlock for the pointy guitars. Offer options on all those models (nothing super crazy to start) and keep the quality great and the price reasonable. Build from there.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

musicaldeath said:


> They need to do a Gunslinger model (everyone loves superstrats and even though I never played one from the heyday, they always looked badass). Also, superstrats sell. Solar guitars has done well with this - that is their primary model with a few different options on it.
> 
> They need to do an Eagle like Chris Poland had (I think Neil Moser made it for him waaaaay back in the day). Saw a video on YouTube of him playing it and talking about it... bad ass guitar.
> 
> Then do an Iron Bird and a Warlock for the pointy guitars. Offer options on all those models (nothing super crazy to start) and keep the quality great and the price reasonable. Build from there.



Yeah, bringing back the Gunslinger would be great.


----------



## possumkiller

Then put Gibson on the headstock to begin with. Nobody is sanding down Jackson headstocks to put a Jackson logo on it. People can tell the difference between an RR X series and an RR1. It's only a matter of time before the SE line gets carved tops. They didn't start out having bird inlays or signature headstock logos. I think the main reason counterfeit LPs sell so well is because you can't get the whole LP look in the Epiphone price range. I bet if they released the whole Epiphone line with the open book headstock the counterfeit sales would drop off a lot. Most people don't care if it says Epiphone it's just that huge headstock that is off putting.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> Then put Gibson on the headstock to begin with. Nobody is sanding down Jackson headstocks to put a Jackson logo on it. People can tell the difference between an RR X series and an RR1. It's only a matter of time before the SE line gets carved tops. They didn't start out having bird inlays or signature headstock logos. I think the main reason counterfeit LPs sell so well is because you can't get the whole LP look in the Epiphone price range. I bet if they released the whole Epiphone line with the open book headstock the counterfeit sales would drop off a lot. Most people don't care if it says Epiphone it's just that huge headstock that is off putting.



The only people who care this much are gear nerds like us, who are in the minority.

Gibsons sell very well. Epiphones sell very well. There is no incentive to change it to please a small group of people that are too proud to rock an Epiphone.

If you think the average audience member can tell the difference between a Gibson and Epiphone headstock under state lights...or if they care at all, I don’t know what to tell you. 

I’m simply telling you why they stopped using the Gibson headstock on Epiphones and Orvilles.


----------



## manu80

Do they still use it on japanese elite/elitist series ?


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> Chinese forgers would buy Epiphone and Orville Les Pauls and slide a thin overlay over them, use a little glue, and then have a perfect copy. I’ve seen a lot of these over the years.



In the case of Orvilles, that might be a progress. Those aren't cheap to begin with, either.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

They need to go back to basics & start over, Bich, Mock, Eagle, Warlock. 
Start with that, keep it to a USA Handmade line, & maybe one import line, and re-build the brand from there.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

manu80 said:


> Do they still use it on japanese elite/elitist series ?



Nope. They use the old school Epiphone headstock.



Andromalia said:


> In the case of Orvilles, that might be a progress. Those aren't cheap to begin with, either.



Orvilles used to be cheap. They made them to compete with Tokai, Burny, Greco, Ibanez, etc.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

bostjan said:


> Nice, umm, graphics there...hearts and "suck me/lick me" printed all over...classy
> I never knew that existed, though, or any Fernandez mockingbird.



Well thats because it's a signature model, that they have been milking for money since Hide died 20 years ago. If you ask a guitar player over here what their image of Fernandes is, they'll instantly say "Hide."

here's a good look at one of his fernandes sigs


----------



## MatiasTolkki

MaxOfMetal said:


> I forget the exact deal, but Fernandes’ parent company owns the rights to build all kinds of stuff as long as it’s Japan only. I remember the Ibanez Iceman being another example.



Greco also used to do Iceman models way back when, although I think Ibanez bitchslapped them.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

MatiasTolkki said:


> Greco also used to do Iceman models way back when, although I think Ibanez bitchslapped them.



The Iceman was actually a collaborative design between Greco and Ibanez, they both own in. When Greco makes it, it's a Mirage and can only be offered in Japan.


----------



## possumkiller

Weren't Greco made by Fujigen as well?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> Weren't Greco made by Fujigen as well?



Greco was just like Hoshino, they did design and marketing, they didn't build thier own guitars. While they did use Fujigen, they also used Matsumoku and others.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MatiasTolkki said:


> Well thats because it's a signature model, that they have been milking for money since Hide died 20 years ago. If you ask a guitar player over here what their image of Fernandes is, they'll instantly say "Hide."
> 
> here's a good look at one of his fernandes sigs



What the fuck even is this...


----------



## Andromalia

Someone's discovering Visual Kei 25 years after the fact


----------



## Athor

I wonder whats gonna happen next..


----------



## bostjan

I know nothing, but if Moser ends up owning BCR, then maybe the universe can start to right itself again.


----------



## possumkiller

Athor said:


> I wonder whats gonna happen next..
> View attachment 61665
> View attachment 61666


So does that mean he's teaming up with Kerry King, BRJ and Dave Mustaine to buy BCR?


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Well now, that's a breath of fresh air. A massive lung crushing breath.

And it's a good thing it's such a big breath as if it moves at the same pace as MCS did setting up it's import line, it might take a minute. It will probably be worth the wait.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Andromalia said:


> Someone's discovering Visual Kei 25 years after the fact



Hide, near the end of his life, had gotten rid of a lot of that makeup and stuff, which a lot of people seem to think is because X broke up and that caused him to die.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Spaced Out Ace said:


> What the fuck even is this...



Take punk music with a hint of industrial and you get HIDE's solo career.


----------



## Andromalia

MatiasTolkki said:


> Hide, near the end of his life, had gotten rid of a lot of that makeup and stuff, which a lot of people seem to think is because X broke up and that caused him to die.



I'm by no means a VK specialist, I just happened to live in Sugamo, Tokyo, in 1995/96 so I'm a bit more used than the average occidental person to the "weird" aspects of japanese culture (JK, Idols, etc) Probably why I'm shamelessely a babymetal fan and giving hell to anyone trying to ridicule me for it. You can be a metalhead or a conformist, pick one.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Andromalia said:


> I'm by no means a VK specialist, I just happened to live in Sugamo, Tokyo, in 1995/96 so I'm a bit more used than the average occidental person to the "weird" aspects of japanese culture (JK, Idols, etc) Probably why I'm shamelessely a babymetal fan and giving hell to anyone trying to ridicule me for it. You can be a metalhead or a conformist, pick one.



Except babymetal isnt metal, it's an idol group pretending to play shitty metalcore, but that's another story.

I've seen the real ugly side of the V-kei culture and it is REALLY ugly. 

I think idolizing teen girls is absolutely fucking weird about Japan, but I stayed in Japan because I love this country and wanted to make my life here from the first time I stepped off the plane. It's why I've stayed for 12 years, and seen some absolutely insane shifts in culture and music in that time.


----------



## bostjan

Andromalia said:


> I'm by no means a VK specialist, I just happened to live in Sugamo, Tokyo, in 1995/96 so I'm a bit more used than the average occidental person to the "weird" aspects of japanese culture (JK, Idols, etc) Probably why I'm shamelessely a babymetal fan and giving hell to anyone trying to ridicule me for it. You can be a metalhead or a conformist, pick one.


Metal in Western subculture isn't like it used to be. Typically things that don't fit into a pre-defined box these days is looked at by metalheads with confusion and sometimes with trepidation, until someone with some sort of standing in the community says it's okay.
Hell, just look at the guitar pickups people are using in metal. If you bought your pickups during the heyday of djent, you probably bought Bareknuckles. Before that, Lundgrens were in style, and before that, Dimarzio. Now it's all about Fishman. Maybe you buy those because you like them, and not to conform, but I'd counter that people liked them because they made the same sound that everyone wanted, and everyone wanted that sound because it was the "in" style. As a user of EMGs in the mid-90's, Dimarzios in the late 90's and early 2000's, and BKP in the mid-2000's, I conformed as well. Given multiple choice, if the pop person always chooses "A," the metal person probably just chooses "B" every time, to be different, but also to fall in uniformity with other metalheads. A real punk rocker or whatever would probably take the multiple choice test, rip it up, eat some of it, shit it out, and then use the rest of it to wipe. That'd be non-conformist mentality.
Listening to BABYMETAL is essentially choosing both options "A" and "B." I don't think that's really a choice or a taste that breaks conformist norms. It's like saying "I like metal, but I like Japanese Idol music. I like bands that look kind of like a spoof off of Slipknot, but I like singers who dress like cartoon characters." You like what you like, but liking something that's super popular worldwide really doesn't function as a point in proving you are non-conformist.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Moser is a good friend and a consummate gentleman. He knows this ins and outs of BCR better than most.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Athor said:


> I wonder whats gonna happen next..
> View attachment 61665
> View attachment 61666



If we're in the correct timeline, this would lead to good things.


----------



## Mathemagician

Neal Moser riding out years of B/S just doing his own thing to run BCR in the end would be amazing. First things first I hope he changes the name because that would be hilarious. Have a nice fancy “M” inlay instead of the “R” and go from there.


----------



## Athor

Maybe the current Custom Shop guys will buy it? They did put up that really sneaky video where they all introduced themselves right after they posted the "Big announcement" post on facebook.

We can only hope.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Moser is a good friend and a consummate gentleman. He knows this ins and outs of BCR better than most.



I can vouch for the fact that he is very much a gentleman. After getting an on board boosts from him and spending time on his forum years ago. It's where my first stop for a custom build would be. 

I would love to see him involved with a new revival of BCR.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

bostjan said:


> Metal in Western subculture isn't like it used to be. Typically things that don't fit into a pre-defined box these days is looked at by metalheads with confusion and sometimes with trepidation, until someone with some sort of standing in the community says it's okay.
> Hell, just look at the guitar pickups people are using in metal. If you bought your pickups during the heyday of djent, you probably bought Bareknuckles. Before that, Lundgrens were in style, and before that, Dimarzio. Now it's all about Fishman. Maybe you buy those because you like them, and not to conform, but I'd counter that people liked them because they made the same sound that everyone wanted, and everyone wanted that sound because it was the "in" style. As a user of EMGs in the mid-90's, Dimarzios in the late 90's and early 2000's, and BKP in the mid-2000's, I conformed as well. Given multiple choice, if the pop person always chooses "A," the metal person probably just chooses "B" every time, to be different, but also to fall in uniformity with other metalheads. A real punk rocker or whatever would probably take the multiple choice test, rip it up, eat some of it, shit it out, and then use the rest of it to wipe. That'd be non-conformist mentality.
> Listening to BABYMETAL is essentially choosing both options "A" and "B." I don't think that's really a choice or a taste that breaks conformist norms. It's like saying "I like metal, but I like Japanese Idol music. I like bands that look kind of like a spoof off of Slipknot, but I like singers who dress like cartoon characters." You like what you like, but liking something that's super popular worldwide really doesn't function as a point in proving you are non-conformist.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Folks gotta realize too, guitar manufacturers on a grassroots level such as Moser & the current state of BCR operate with a very high cost to profit ratio. Profit margin is very low. A 2500 sq foot shop is average in these examples with minimal staff, and it is constantly a challenge to exhibit profits that are sustainable, muchless a level that may facilitate growth. When I was at Neal's house a number of years ago, he compared the size of his shop to the size of BCR's USA shop at the height of its success to be very similar. People think "guitar manufacturer" & automatically think of something the size of Peavey or Carvin, but those are the absolutely rare exceptions in most cases.


----------



## NateFalcon

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Is BC Rich some sort of foreign word meaning "ugly"?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Andromalia said:


> Someone's discovering Visual Kei 25 years after the fact


I know what it is, but the whole thing put together was rather, uh... strange.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I know what it is, but the whole thing put together was rather, uh... strange.



It was ripped from one of his numerous live dvds or something.


----------



## NateFalcon

Japan’s visual answer to Vinnie Vincent...


----------



## MatiasTolkki

NateFalcon said:


> Japan’s visual answer to Vinnie Vincent...



HIDE was a massive fan of Kiss, and it was HIDE, NOT X Japan, that created the look of the original V-kei. He was a beautician by trade and just happened to be a guitar player that Yoshiki found when he was trying to put X together. The look entirely came from HIDE. 

Also, Vinnie Vincent is fucked up in the head, can't figure out if he wants to be a she or not. HIDE had a girlfriend who he was living with when he died. He lived a very normal life, so that isn't a fair comparison.


----------



## NateFalcon

His beautician skills were certainly stellar


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MatiasTolkki said:


> HIDE was a massive fan of Kiss, and it was HIDE, NOT X Japan, that created the look of the original V-kei. He was a beautician by trade and just happened to be a guitar player that Yoshiki found when he was trying to put X together. The look entirely came from HIDE.
> 
> Also, Vinnie Vincent is fucked up in the head, can't figure out if he wants to be a she or not. HIDE had a girlfriend who he was living with when he died. He lived a very normal life, so that isn't a fair comparison.


Very fair comparison. Vinnie Vincent circa 86 is very much an influence for Visual Kei.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Very fair comparison. Vinnie Vincent circa 86 is very much an influence for Visual Kei.



Except HIDE, in PUBLICLY MADE INTERVIEWS, has said one of his biggest influences was Kiss, NOT vinnie vincent.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MatiasTolkki said:


> Except HIDE, in PUBLICLY MADE INTERVIEWS, has said one of his biggest influences was Kiss, NOT vinnie vincent.


FOOL! Vinnie Vincent SAVED KISS! /evil80svillaincartoonvoice


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Spaced Out Ace said:


> FOOL! Vinnie Vincent SAVED KISS! /evil80svillaincartoonvoice



and hide was listening to kiss BEFORE vinnie. Maybe you should actually learn about HIDE first.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Hide can actually play guitar. Vinnie Vincent can't even get the sped-up recording right to hide his sloppy playing. Also VV didn't save Kiss because you can't save something beyond redemption. 

In Conclusion:

Alive Hide > Dead Hide > Vinnie Vincent.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Hide can actually play guitar. Vinnie Vincent can't even get the sped-up recording right to hide his sloppy playing. Also VV didn't save Kiss because you can't save something beyond redemption.
> 
> In Conclusion:
> 
> Alive Hide > Dead Hide > Vinnie Vincent.


Vinnie boots ftw.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Two whiny Japanese triggered by Vinnie Vincent's influence on Visual Kei. 



MatiasTolkki said:


> and hide was listening to kiss BEFORE vinnie. Maybe you should actually learn about HIDE first.


I would, but he doesn't seem important enough to bother.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

You're grossly overestimating Vinnie Vincent as an entity.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Please. Vinnie Vincent gave him a reason to exist. Anyways, I need to go find a towel and shower. My back is aching.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

It was Ace Frehley actually. 

In any case, Vinnie Vincent is terrible regardless of who influenced who. Hide's decomposing corpse is still better than any composing VV has put out alive.


----------



## NateFalcon

Let’s get off this J-pop shit...it’s what ruined Marty Friedman...


----------



## possumkiller

MatiasTolkki said:


> HIDE was a massive fan of Kiss, and it was HIDE, NOT X Japan, that created the look of the original V-kei. He was a beautician by trade and just happened to be a guitar player that Yoshiki found when he was trying to put X together. The look entirely came from HIDE.
> 
> Also, Vinnie Vincent is fucked up in the head, can't figure out if he wants to be a she or not. HIDE had a girlfriend who he was living with when he died. He lived a very normal life, so that isn't a fair comparison.


Don't bring your bigoted homophobic hate speech in here! What may be "normal" for one person may not be "normal" for the next person. So keep this a safe place for everyone and have an open mind and stop being so anti-LGBTQRBG! Do you want Trump to win????


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

possumkiller said:


> Don't bring your bigoted homophobic hate speech in here! What may be "normal" for one person may not be "normal" for the next person. So keep this a safe place for everyone and have an open mind and stop being so anti-LGBTQRBG! Do you want Trump to win????


----------



## snowblind56

NateFalcon said:


> View attachment 61688
> 
> Spaced Out Ace said: ↑
> Is BC Rich some sort of foreign word meaning "ugly"?



No, that's Kiesel...


----------



## Mathemagician

What is happening? At first I thought it was sarcasm. Then I was like “maybe they’re serious?” THEN I was like “maybe one is serious and one is joking, but which is which?”

Can we just get back to worshipping our lord and savior the Ironbird?


----------



## stevexc

All I'm getting from this thread is that Vinnie Vincent discontinued Hide's 11-polepiece pickups.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Mathemagician said:


> ~wierdness~
> 
> Can we just get back to worshipping our lord and savior the Ironbird?



Yes, may we return to our cloistered ruins to contemplate the meaning of the greatest question of all time. Which wouldst be greater the Ironbird or the Stealth which begat him?


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

wedge_destroyer said:


> Yes, may we return to our cloistered ruins to contemplate the meaning of the greatest question of all time. Which wouldst be greater the Ironbird or the Stealth which begat him?



someone add a poll...

1 vote for steath


----------



## bostjan

M3CHK1LLA said:


> someone add a poll...
> 
> 1 vote for steath



Aygahchu - 
http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/choose-your-fave-bc-rich-shape.330088/#post-4882334


----------



## Rosal76

Mathemagician said:


> Can we just get back to worshipping our lord and savior the Ironbird?



Speaking of Ironbirds... Just saw this on the B.C. Rich: U.S. custom shop Facebook page.







I believe this is the first B.C. Rich electric guitar that I've seen without any volume/tone knobs.


----------



## NateFalcon

I still say the “early” harpoon headstocks are the best looking...I’m lucky to have an ‘86 usa Ironbird with a harpoon that I’ve had since ‘94 that I’m refinishing right now. NJ series (Japanese, and SOME Korean) Ironbirds from ‘84-‘92 can SOMETIMES be found with these headstocks as well -and they are the rarest and coolest looking IMO


----------



## possumkiller

That Tony Iommi Ironbird is the one I always lusted for a right handed version of.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

This seems like a nice place to put this....


----------



## NateFalcon

wedge_destroyer said:


> This seems like a nice place to put this....


Those early NJ’s are some of the best shred guitars for the money to this day


----------



## CapinCripes

NateFalcon said:


> Those early NJ’s are some of the best shred guitars for the money to this day


They really are. my 85 NJ ST plays better than my Rg550 and is interesting in that its a 24.625 strat. the pickups arn't great but thats an easy fix.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

NateFalcon said:


> Those early NJ’s are some of the best shred guitars for the money to this day



That plus a very stout kahler addiction led to those three and a mock that is going to get a new kahler or refinish and back to quad not sure yet. Oh and a Warlock neck that needs a new rod and board.


----------



## NateFalcon

All early BC Rich’s had weird scale lengths...they’re always somewhere between 24.5” and 25.75” lol


----------



## NateFalcon

wedge_destroyer said:


> That plus a very stout kahler addiction led to those three and a mock that is going to get a new kahler or refinish and back to quad not sure yet. Oh and a Warlock neck that needs a new rod and board.


Those are yours?...nice!!


----------



## wedge_destroyer

NateFalcon said:


> Those are yours?...nice!!



Yup been nabbing them up since the early 2000s when the prices were low lol

And thanks


----------



## NateFalcon

wedge_destroyer said:


> Yup been nabbing them up since the early 2000s when the prices were low lol
> 
> And thanks


Cool, I’m retopping my ‘86 harpoon usa Ironbird as we speak. I sold a handful of NJ’s over the years that I wish I still had. I’ll never part with my Ironbird, it’s the only BCR I’ve kept over the years


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

NateFalcon said:


> Cool, I’m retopping my ‘86 harpoon usa Ironbird as we speak. I sold a handful of NJ’s over the years that I wish I still had. I’ll never part with my Ironbird, it’s the only BCR I’ve kept over the years


Show everyone the top you have picked for it. It looks pretty stellar.


----------



## NateFalcon

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Show everyone the top you have picked for it. It looks pretty stellar.


My phone won’t compress my pics...go ahead, throw it up (just kill the audio lol)...I’ll definitely put up some pics of the build and a NGD when it’s done


----------



## Spaced Out Ace




----------



## NateFalcon

Spaced Out Ace said:


> View attachment 61720
> View attachment 61721


Thanks, I’m super proud of that piece...one of the nicest slabs of curly black walnut I’ve ever seen, it’s going to look unreal bookmatched


----------



## electriceye

Athor said:


> I wonder whats gonna happen next..
> View attachment 61665
> View attachment 61666



Whoa..... If I only had the $...


----------



## electriceye

NateFalcon said:


> Thanks, I’m super proud of that piece...one of the nicest slabs of curly black walnut I’ve ever seen, it’s going to look unreal bookmatched



Bookmatched? How wide is that slab??


----------



## electriceye

musicaldeath said:


> They need to do a Gunslinger model (everyone loves superstrats and even though I never played one from the heyday, they always looked badass). Also, superstrats sell. Solar guitars has done well with this - that is their primary model with a few different options on it.
> 
> They need to do an Eagle like Chris Poland had (I think Neil Moser made it for him waaaaay back in the day). Saw a video on YouTube of him playing it and talking about it... bad ass guitar.
> 
> Then do an Iron Bird and a Warlock for the pointy guitars. Offer options on all those models (nothing super crazy to start) and keep the quality great and the price reasonable. Build from there.



I've been saying for the past 3 or 4 years, that they COMPLETELY dropped the ball on the superstrat revival. If they had done EXACT spec USA Gunslingers, even with many of the old graphics, they would have made a killing.

Whoever takes over (if ever), they need to go back to the basics. Get rid of these stupid-ass widow, or whatever, headstocks, stick with the harpoon and original 3x3, and go back to the original 4 or 5 shapes PLUS the Gunslinger. Period.


----------



## NateFalcon

electriceye said:


> Bookmatched? How wide is that slab??


About 16” across in the middle and 2” thick...just too small for a 1pc top, I think a bookmatch with the flame would look killer though


----------



## electriceye

NateFalcon said:


> About 16” across in the middle and 2” thick...just too small for a 1pc top, I think a bookmatch with the flame would look killer though



How is that too small? Most bodies are 12-14". Unless I missed that you're building a V/Warlock.


----------



## NateFalcon

I blame the widow headstock for their image slide...


----------



## NateFalcon

electriceye said:


> How is that too small? Most bodies are 12-14". Unless I missed that you're building a V/Warlock.


Ironbird, and I’m going to pull from the best spot in the figuring...I’ll see what I can do after I bandsaw it


----------



## electriceye

NateFalcon said:


> Ironbird, and I’m going to pull from the best spot in the figuring...I’ll see what I can do after I bandsaw it



Ah, say no more. Much bigger body. CANNOT WAIT to see that done!!


----------



## NateFalcon

I think other than the Bich, Neal Moser’s guitars are truly ugly. He has his own clientele (I guess) and BCR, if it chooses to continue under that name should stay away from Moser’s designs and I agree should stick to the core, classic shapes and headstocks, perhaps stripped down modernized metal versions similar to Ibanez’s Iron Labels (minus the complaints lol)...something about the Rico Jr’s, Moser’s, and even the DBZ’s all had this weird binding and plastic-y finishes and Dean-meets-BCR look that started to homogenize and look cheesy thus killing the classic BCR look with it. Bring back the classics...


----------



## MatiasTolkki

NateFalcon said:


> I think other than the Bich, Neal Moser’s guitars are truly ugly. He has his own clientele (I guess) and BCR, if it chooses to continue under that name should stay away from Moser’s designs and I agree should stick to the core, classic shapes and headstocks, perhaps stripped down modernized metal versions similar to Ibanez’s Iron Labels (minus the complaints lol)...something about the Rico Jr’s, Moser’s, and even the DBZ’s all had this weird binding and plastic-y finishes and Dean-meets-BCR look that started to homogenize and look cheesy thus killing the classic BCR look with it. Bring back the classics...



And minus the shitty Quality control too


----------



## Cynicanal

No way, BC Rich without outlandish shapes is like a giraffe without a long neck. The more pointy bits, the better. If Moser gets a hold of BC Rich, a BC Rich Morpheus would be the coolest thing ever.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Cynicanal said:


> No way, BC Rich without outlandish shapes is like a giraffe without a long neck. The more pointy bits, the better. If Moser gets a hold of BC Rich, a BC Rich Morpheus would be the coolest thing ever.



Blackie Lawless' Warlock from the early WASP years is a thing of beauty.


----------



## feraledge

I just saw in my YT feed that Tone King did a 1 hour and 20 minute video with Phillip McKnight on rumors of Slash buying BC Rich. Whatever happens to BC Rich can't be worse than this. I took the appropriate measure here, made sure to nuke TK videos from my feed.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

feraledge said:


> I just saw in my YT feed that Tone King did a 1 hour and 20 minute video with Phillip McKnight on rumors of Slash buying BC Rich. Whatever happens to BC Rich can't be worse than this. I took the appropriate measure here, made sure to nuke TK videos from my feed.


Get rid of McKnight as well.


----------



## Cynicanal

Does anyone have any recommendations for string brands for the Quadmatic bridge? Just gave my Beast a string change for the first time, and restringing with a set of GHS Boomers (which is the brand the previous owner said he used), the ball-end twists of the low E are sitting on the saddle, which strikes me as something that could cause problems down the line. Or am I just being paranoid over nothing?


----------



## MatiasTolkki

feraledge said:


> I just saw in my YT feed that Tone King did a 1 hour and 20 minute video with Phillip McKnight on rumors of Slash buying BC Rich. Whatever happens to BC Rich can't be worse than this. I took the appropriate measure here, made sure to nuke TK videos from my feed.



i nuked that fat fuck after he took a shitty ibanez XXV1 and paired it against a kiesel aries, and basically felated the aries to climax, and bashed ibanez like you can't imagine.


----------



## Mathemagician

Tone King has got to be one of the most ironic YouTube channel names.


----------



## twguitar

Cynicanal said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for string brands for the Quadmatic bridge? Just gave my Beast a string change for the first time, and restringing with a set of GHS Boomers (which is the brand the previous owner said he used), the ball-end twists of the low E are sitting on the saddle, which strikes me as something that could cause problems down the line. Or am I just being paranoid over nothing?


You just need to set the bridge slightly further back and then innotate


----------



## twguitar

That Tone King video was nothing more than 2 blokes making stuff up. They have no idea trust me. Neal Moser has been providing electronics for Ron at the CS as part of the team for the last few years now and is always there to provide support when needed.
Trust me, the right people are now in positions to take BCR forward.


----------



## electriceye

twguitar said:


> That Tone King video was nothing more than 2 blokes making stuff up. They have no idea trust me. Neal Moser has been providing electronics for Ron at the CS as part of the team for the last few years now and is always there to provide support when needed.
> Trust me, the right people are now in positions to take BCR forward.



I've heard that half a dozen times the past few years. I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## Rosal76

Thought some of you guys who like B.C. Rich Stealth guitars may like this. This photo is from their U.S. custom shop Facebook page.







You can't tell in the picture but the fretboard is scalloped. I believe this might be the first B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop guitar to have a scalloped fretboard but I'm not sure. They have more pictures on their Facebook page as I just chose the one I thought is the best.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Rosal76 said:


> Thought some of you guys who like B.C. Rich Stealth guitars may like this. This photo is from their U.S. custom shop Facebook page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't tell in the picture but the fretboard is scalloped. I believe this might be the first B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop guitar to have a scalloped fretboard but I'm not sure. They have more pictures on their Facebook page as I just chose the one I thought is the best.



Holy shit, the like button doesn't even begin to describe....


----------



## cwhitey2

Rosal76 said:


> Thought some of you guys who like B.C. Rich Stealth guitars may like this. This photo is from their U.S. custom shop Facebook page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't tell in the picture but the fretboard is scalloped. I believe this might be the first B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop guitar to have a scalloped fretboard but I'm not sure. They have more pictures on their Facebook page as I just chose the one I thought is the best.


So many switches


----------



## MatiasTolkki

that stealth is      Maple board BCR


----------



## Rosal76

They (B.C. Rich U.S. custom shop Facebook page) just posted these pictures 14 hours ago.






As much as I like the guitar, I'm not sure about those streaks from the 6th to the 13th fret.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

I thought that white one sent gas levels to the top, then you bring in the kahler 

Streaks on the board don't bother me honestly it's wood that shit happens


----------



## possumkiller

I'm assuming it's just ebony that hasn't been dyed black. Fine by me.


----------



## twguitar

I quite like a bit of variety in boards sometimes


----------



## oppgulp

Those Stealths are amazing!


----------



## possumkiller

oppgulp said:


> Those Stealths are amazing!


Idk...

I bet if I take a magnifying glass over it I can find a flaw somewhere and say it's a POS.


----------



## Athor

Seems like BCR has got new owners and will be present at NAMM 2019 according to the fangrp on facebook. 

Not gonna get my hopes up but its something!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Athor said:


> Seems like BCR has got new owners and will be present at NAMM 2019 according to the fangrp on facebook.
> 
> Not gonna get my hopes up but its something!



Who's ready to have a similar thread to this in 2 - 3 years?


----------



## Mathemagician

No hopes up. They can make me a believer when they have real production line models hitting stores.


----------



## MatiasTolkki

Mathemagician said:


> No hopes up. They can make me a believer when they have real production line models hitting stores.



when they have production models coming to Japan. THEN I'll believe they're for real.


----------



## twguitar

Yes BCR has new owners, re-launch at NAMM but no details are public yet.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

twguitar said:


> Yes BCR has new owners, re-launch at NAMM but no details are public yet.



Just in time for Gibson's new line of ownership... Hmmm.

Nah, I doubt it. I wonder who the owners are now?


----------



## Mathemagician

It’s Schecter running them as thier more “extreme” lineup of instruments. All prediction moved to MII/MIK, with some hiring being done in the USA shop to roll out some custom work for artists!


----------



## Athor

Mathemagician said:


> It’s Schecter running them as thier more “extreme” lineup of instruments. All prediction moved to MII/MIK, with some hiring being done in the USA shop to roll out some custom work for artists!


If this is true im all in.


----------



## Andromalia

After years of shit I doubt we'll have good news, it's going to be an investor company again.


----------



## Mathemagician

Oh shit I forgot a /s. Maybe throw in an October Fools! In there too. Sorry just daydreaming.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Mathemagician said:


> It’s Schecter running them as thier more “extreme” lineup of instruments. All prediction moved to MII/MIK, with some hiring being done in the USA shop to roll out some custom work for artists!




Could you imagine if that actually happened? That would give a lot of hope for BCR since Schecters that have been made at WMI have always been great when I played them and the quality was spectacular.


----------



## Athor

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Could you imagine if that actually happened? That would give a lot of hope for BCR since Schecters that have been made at WMI have always been great when I played them and the quality was spectacular.


Both of my BCRs are WMI and they are great. No issues whatsoever. Pretty much everything they need to do is to make the guitars people actually ask for and have them made at WMI.

Its actually that simple


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Athor said:


> Both of my BCRs are WMI and they are great. No issues whatsoever. Pretty much everything they need to do is to make the guitars people actually ask for and have them made at WMI.
> 
> Its actually that simple




And follow the demand of what people are looking for guitars in X price range in terms of features and craftsmanship. 

Not a very hard concept. Gibson would probably not have filed chapter 11 if they had done that. Who knows with the new CEO of Gibson being a former CEO of Levi Strauss he might restore that. Who knows if Gibson might make a line of imported gibsons either made in japan or South Korea. With more features and higher specs than a $899 USA Gibson compared to a Korean/Japanese $899 gibson.

Just think of the possibilities!!!


----------



## Athor

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> And follow the demand of what people are looking for guitars in X price range in terms of features and craftsmanship.
> 
> Not a very hard concept. Gibson would probably not have filed chapter 11 if they had done that. Who knows with the new CEO of Gibson being a former CEO of Levi Strauss he might restore that. Who knows if Gibson might make a line of imported gibsons either made in japan or South Korea. With more features and higher specs than a $899 USA Gibson compared to a Korean/Japanese $899 gibson.
> 
> Just think of the possibilities!!!


Yeap its dead simple. 

Like the 2008/2010 catalogue from BCR was actually great. Gunslingers, Warlocks, Mockingbirds, Assassins etc. All made at WMI, pricing was the same as everything else made there, quality was good, custom shop option, they even had quite a decent list of artists. 

I truly hope this goes well! Both for BCR and Gibson.. Imagine a -84 explorer MIJ with a Bibson logo on it :-D


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> And follow the demand of what people are looking for guitars in X price range in terms of features and craftsmanship.
> 
> Not a very hard concept. Gibson would probably not have filed chapter 11 if they had done that. Who knows with the new CEO of Gibson being a former CEO of Levi Strauss he might restore that. Who knows if Gibson might make a line of imported gibsons either made in japan or South Korea. With more features and higher specs than a $899 USA Gibson compared to a Korean/Japanese $899 gibson.
> 
> Just think of the possibilities!!!



The guitar business side of Gibson was very, very lucrative. The guitar business was bringing in profits for at least the last five years, with substantial growth the last three years (30% to 50% year over year!).

The issue wasn't guitar sales, in fact the guitar sales is what kept them afloat for so long while accumulating huge debt. That's how they got the loans. 

It was their investment in consumer technology (outside of guitars) that killed them. 

BCR has had issues outside of guitars as well. They hadn't had good long-term management in decades. Reinventing the wheel every four or five years when you get a new owner can kill any brand, which is what BCR is, a brand. They stopped being a guitar company many years ago.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> The guitar business side of Gibson was very, very lucrative. The guitar business was bringing in profits for at least the last five years, with substantial growth the last three years (30% to 50% year over year!).
> 
> The issue wasn't guitar sales, in fact the guitar sales is what kept them afloat for so long while accumulating huge debt. That's how they got the loans.
> 
> It was their investment in consumer technology (outside of guitars) that killed them.
> 
> BCR has had issues outside of guitars as well. They hadn't had good long-term management in decades. Reinventing the wheel every four or five years when you get a new owner can kill any brand, which is what BCR is, a brand. They stopped being a guitar company many years ago.




Well I agree that although their guitar areas alone might not be the culprit for their issues, but lets be honest, what is one of the main complaints of those brands? Usually has to do with quality, price, craftsmanship, and lack of features and others.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Well I agree that although their guitar areas alone might not be the culprit for their issues, but lets be honest, what is one of the main complaints of those brands? Usually has to do with quality, price, craftsmanship, and lack of features and others.



Folks will always complain about price. Always. The fact that sales are so good shows that while some do complain, obviously enough don't have a problem with the price to bring in significant profits.

Same with the other two complaints. As long as they're selling thousands of them a month, and bringing in tens of millions in profits, those complaints don't hold water. Not every brand needs to make every player happy, there's nothing wrong with specialization. 

You also have to step outside the metal guitar bubble. You're going to see more complaints in a place that caters to folks to prefer >$1k super strats vs. places that skew more towards the type of guitars Gibson sells.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> Folks will always complain about price. Always. The fact that sales are so good shows that while some do complain, obviously enough don't have a problem with the price to bring in significant profits.
> 
> Same with the other two complaints. As long as they're selling thousands of them a month, and bringing in tens of millions in profits, those complaints don't hold water. Not every brand needs to make every player happy, there's nothing wrong with specialization.
> 
> You also have to step outside the metal guitar bubble. You're going to see more complaints in a place that caters to folks to prefer >$1k super strats vs. places that skew more towards the type of guitars Gibson sells.




Agreed. If they are selling and they are turning a profit, the business plan is good. But wouldn't you think if they offered some other lines under the gibson name that are tended towards a certain audience that they would open the doors to more customers and such?

My bias does come off that Gibson doesn't really have stuff tended to the metal players. If they were to make a line for the metal players with the features that people would like and stuff that gibson doesn't usually offer I would love that. I know they had the LP JuJu and the voodoo series in the early 2000's and the CM series, but instead of having these just periodically, why doesn't gibson have these as a separate line? I am not asking for stuff like 9 string multiscale burl tops SS frets and evertunes. No not that abstract, but some offering for the metal player.

Stuff like Gibson LP's in gloss black or satin black or other solid colors with hardtail bridges and stuff with floyd roses. Maybe 7 strings. Fishmans/Emgs/Blackouts? Ebony board, blank or not. Compound radius. and such. Very simple, but modern features for the metal player if you get my drift.

What do you think of the prospect of Gibson maybe having a line in between Epiphone and base model usa? Like a gibson made in South Korea at WMI or Japan in a factory? Having a import gibson that is more affordable, but allows people to have more features and offerings along with having still pretty good QC and craftsmanship and shit. I think that would be a great idea. Personally I like the Matt heafy signature, but I could not get past the headstock. And I also do not feel for paying that amount for a chinese guitar. I know I could buy used, but I could also buy a Schecter solo II and change the pickups and probably have a better playing guitar for $100-$200 more. To me that is worth the upcharge.


----------



## SDMFVan

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Well I agree that although their guitar areas alone might not be the culprit for their issues, but lets be honest, what is one of the main complaints of those brands? Usually has to do with quality, price, craftsmanship, and lack of features and others.



This is pretty much only true in the SSO/metal guitar bubble. In the circles of guitar players who actually purchase Gibson guitars, the most common complaints are when they try to add features to older models (ie robot tuners). If Gibson released a Les Paul Standard with stainless steel frets and Fishman pickups Gibson players would lose their sh*t and SSO members still wouldn't buy them.

I won't argue over price because that just is what it is, but I've bought three brand new Gibson's in the last 12 months and they've all had impeccable QC and craftsmanship. Certainly there will be some issues just like any manufacturer making guitars at this scale, but I think most of the QC complaints are just people rehashing stuff they've heard online for years.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Agreed. If they are selling and they are turning a profit, the business plan is good. But wouldn't you think if they offered some other lines under the gibson name that are tended towards a certain audience that they would open the doors to more customers and such?
> 
> My bias does come off that Gibson doesn't really have stuff tended to the metal players. If they were to make a line for the metal players with the features that people would like and stuff that gibson doesn't usually offer I would love that. I know they had the LP JuJu and the voodoo series in the early 2000's and the CM series, but instead of having these just periodically, why doesn't gibson have these as a separate line? I am not asking for stuff like 9 string multiscale burl tops SS frets and evertunes. No not that abstract, but some offering for the metal player.
> 
> Stuff like Gibson LP's in gloss black or satin black or other solid colors with hardtail bridges and stuff with floyd roses. Maybe 7 strings. Fishmans/Emgs/Blackouts? Ebony board, blank or not. Compound radius. and such. Very simple, but modern features for the metal player if you get my drift.
> 
> What do you think of the prospect of Gibson maybe having a line in between Epiphone and base model usa? Like a gibson made in South Korea at WMI or Japan in a factory? Having a import gibson that is more affordable, but allows people to have more features and offerings along with having still pretty good QC and craftsmanship and shit. I think that would be a great idea. Personally I like the Matt heafy signature, but I could not get past the headstock. And I also do not feel for paying that amount for a chinese guitar. I know I could buy used, but I could also buy a Schecter solo II and change the pickups and probably have a better playing guitar for $100-$200 more. To me that is worth the upcharge.



More customers doesn't mean more profits. 

Gibson has had Korean and Japanese made lines in the past and when push comes to shove, they aren't worth keeping in the lineup in large numbers. If they were pulling in sales, they'd still be sold. Look up Orville and Epiphone Elitist. 

It sounds like you want Gibson to make LTDs/Schecters. But, LTD and Schecter already exist, so why not just buy those?

The metal guitar market is so super saturated and fighting to the bottom of the pricing ladder. There's no money in making another <$1k metal guitar with the same specs as dozens of others. 

Imagine if Ferrari tried breaking into the economy hatchback market. How would that help their business? Sure, more people would be buying Ferraris, but would they actually be doing better financially?


----------



## SDMFVan

MaxOfMetal said:


> More customers doesn't mean more profits.
> 
> Gibson has had Korean and Japanese made lines in the past and when push comes to shove, they aren't worth keeping in the lineup in large numbers. If they were pulling in sales, they'd still be sold. Look up Orville and Epiphone Elitist.
> 
> It sounds like you want Gibson to make LTDs/Schecters. But, LTD and Schecter already exist, so why not just buy those?
> 
> The metal guitar market is so super saturated and fighting to the bottom of the pricing ladder. There's no money in making another <$1k metal guitar with the same specs as dozens of others.
> 
> Imagine if Ferrari tried breaking into the economy hatchback market. How would that help their business? Sure, more people would be buying Ferraris, but would they actually be doing better financially?



Exactly. I think sometimes it's a good thing when guitar manufacturers know their niche and that's what they focus on. Guys who play more "traditional" guitar styles like Les Pauls and Strats never complain that companies like ESP and Ibanez don't make models to suit their style.


----------



## possumkiller

Jesus someone post a picture ffs... This is like reading one of those boring ass grown up's books without pictures.


----------



## maliciousteve

fuck yeah


----------



## gunch

Make an Eagle like that and you have my attention


----------



## NateFalcon

I say let BC Rich fall...I’d rather see them become vintage collectors items and see the real, older models gain more value...a reissue Ironbird IMO would really kill the stigma of the originals.


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> You also have to step outside the metal guitar bubble. You're going to see more complaints in a place that caters to folks to prefer >$1k super strats vs. places that skew more towards the type of guitars Gibson sells.



I don't know, a significant number of successful bands use/used Gibson. Metal is a significant portion of Gibson's history. Iommi, Rhoads, Zakk, Hetfield, Young, the Scorpions duo etc, they're not just small time names. Gibson is probably the most played brand in famous metal acts along ESP and Jackson.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> I don't know, a significant number of successful bands use/used Gibson. Metal is a significant portion of Gibson's history. Iommi, Rhoads, Zakk, Hetfield, Young, the Scorpions duo etc, they're not just small time names. Gibson is probably the most played brand in famous metal acts along ESP and Jackson.



I should have specified "modern" metal, or more specifically the metal that's most trendy with the current generation.


----------



## Andromalia

I'm pretty sure that what's trendy on SSO isn't what's trendy with the "current génération", either. I'm not trying to just argue but...
http://www.metalsucks.net/2017/07/0...-metal-and-hard-rock-albums-of-2017-thus-far/

I think the "Gibson caters to special 8K reissues buyers" is way overblown. their guitars (apart from the aforementioned LP standard and above) are actually fairly priced considering they aren't made in Sweatshop Country. I'm sure they sell a TON of Studios/Tributes. Admittedy the Explorer/SG/Vs don't sell as much but combined they should amount to a pretty penny and their price is fine.
In my opinion, it's precisely in the modern metal bubble where people believe Kiesel, strandberg and Aristides are what the general public wants.

... and I have forgotten Slash in the list, of all things XD


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> I'm pretty sure that what's trendy on SSO isn't what's trendy with the "current génération", either. I'm not trying to just argue but...
> http://www.metalsucks.net/2017/07/0...-metal-and-hard-rock-albums-of-2017-thus-far/
> 
> I think the "Gibson caters to special 8K reissues buyers" is way overblown. their guitars (apart from the aforementioned LP standard and above) are actually fairly priced considering they aren't made in Sweatshop Country. I'm sure they sell a TON of Studios/Tributes. Admittedy the Explorer/SG/Vs don't sell as much but combined they should amount to a pretty penny and their price is fine.
> In my opinion, it's precisely in the modern metal bubble where people believe Kiesel, strandberg and Aristides are what the general public wants.
> 
> ... and I have forgotten Slash in the list, of all things XD



Do you really think that this generation buys music? 

I wasn't talking about the really "out there" stuff, but stuff like Ibanez, Schecter, ESP, Jackson, etc.

I'm just saying, if you have under $1k and feel like playing some contemporary metal, in 2018, you're probably not looking at Gibson SG Juniors.


----------



## vilk

Maybe I'm biased/prejudiced because of the music I tend to listen to, and that Chicago's two most popular metal bands are doom (Bongripper/ REZN), but I feel like stoner/doom/sludge is the prominent popular metal genre since djent died circa 2015, and guitar-wise it's really focused on Gibson scale, vintage styled guitars.


----------



## Athor

vilk said:


> Maybe I'm biased/prejudiced because of the music I tend to listen to, and that Chicago's two most popular metal bands are doom (Bongripper/ REZN), but I feel like stoner/doom/sludge is the prominent popular metal genre since djent died circa 2015, and guitar-wise it's really focused on Gibson scale, vintage styled guitars.


I have to agree.


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> Do you really think that this generation buys music?



Actually, yes, they do. They just don't do it the same way they did before. Universal Music makes more money today than they did 30 years ago. They're selling less records, yes. But they sell more DVD/Blurays/phone ring tones etc. (for which they pay their artists next to nothing, but that's another issue)

Remember that the tears of the music companies are in a big part a PR and lobbying move, they're still making tons of money.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> Actually, yes, they do. They just don't do it the same way they did before. Universal Music makes more money today than they did 30 years ago. They're selling less records, yes. But they sell more DVD/Blurays/phone ring tones etc. (for which they pay their artists next to nothing, but that's another issue)
> 
> Remember that the tears of the music companies are in a big part a PR and lobbying move, they're still making tons of money.



Then why are you trotting out record sales? 

It's not even like record sales directly correlate with who plays guitar and what guitars they choose. There are plenty of artists I enjoy, but wouldn't want to play the same guitars they do. 

Sure, maybe more modern metal players are buying Gibsons than I think they are. Then who are buying all the Schecters, Ibanez, ESP/LTD, Jackson, etc?


----------



## twguitar

BCRs biggest problem is everyone knows them for the crappy $200 black warlocks that line every pawn shop across the world. That is not what the brand was about at all. The imports are what ruined BCR imo, yes they provide a way in for people but they lost focus when they over took the USA made stuff. 
Look at the original BCR guitars & players, they're not metal guys or blacked out pointy things. They keep trying to appeal to the metal market but pointy isn't even what the metal market wants anymore. A return to a more classic route with simple options keeping it high end is the only way to save BCR, otherwise its just a name that will keep chaining hands with the same crap guitars


----------



## MaxOfMetal

twguitar said:


> BCRs biggest problem is everyone knows them for the crappy $200 black warlocks that line every pawn shop across the world. That is not what the brand was about at all. The imports are what ruined BCR imo, yes they provide a way in for people but they lost focus when they over took the USA made stuff.
> Look at the original BCR guitars & players, they're not metal guys or blacked out pointy things. They keep trying to appeal to the metal market but pointy isn't even what the metal market wants anymore. A return to a more classic route with simple options keeping it high end is the only way to save BCR, otherwise its just a name that will keep chaining hands with the same crap guitars



Yeah, for a couple decades they made mostly junk. 

The only folks still into them are those who remember the classics, but that's a shrinking demographic. 

I don't think they're going to be able to save themselves with high end stuff, the current Custom Shop certainly isn't building the brand. 

There's just too much competition right now. 

I think the best course of action would make some decent Japanese stuff. Price it in the $1200 to $1600 range, and give them high end appointments. They need to build a brand, not appease the old guard.


----------



## twguitar

Totally agree, that is the only way they can continue. The old NJ stuff is incredible if they could replicate that it would be great. Im a huge BCR guy but am by a long way the youngest guy interested in the decent stuff, I think they need to realises they're not a big brand anymore its such a limited market and there's so many options elsewhere. 
NAMM will be interesting to see what the new owners have to offer. The CS will have guitars there but what they want to do with the import line does decide the future.


----------



## Demiurge

twguitar said:


> BCRs biggest problem is everyone knows them for the crappy $200 black warlocks that line every pawn shop across the world.



I remember that the Guitar Center near me always had a huge cluster of the cheapo Bronze Series. This was before online retailers took off, GC was a big deal, and this was probably most people's exposure to the brand for a good amount of time. Also, this was when $200 guitars were rarely a bargain.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Demiurge said:


> I remember that the Guitar Center near me always had a huge cluster of the cheapo Bronze Series. This was before online retailers took off, GC was a big deal, and this was probably most people's exposure to the brand for a good amount of time. Also, this was when $200 guitars were rarely a bargain.



Their "big plan" at the time was to try and hook any young/new guitarist in and hope they stick with the brand. 

The distributor at the time would practically give the Bronze series stuff to stores so stores. I remember the shop I worked for receiving a dozen of them, even though we only said we'd take three. When we called BCR they said just keep them. 

But we all know how that went. They couldn't keep up a supply of "upgrade" models and saturated the market with garbage.


----------



## Andromalia

> Sure, maybe more modern metal players are buying Gibsons than I think they are. Then who are buying all the Schecters, Ibanez, ESP/LTD, Jackson, etc?



Well, everybody else, I think you can't really make a rule that genre X players buy specific brands, really. Ibanez today is selling guitars all over the specs map, ESP and Jackson aren't "modern" brands and they are played by just everybody, etc. 

Now back to BCRich, sorry... (which might be a more polarising brand due to styling)


----------



## Aliascent

I really think BC Rich should tweak their designs a bit, then come back with the classic shapes (mockingbird,assassin, gunslinger, ironbird, stealth, warlock and some kind of V), "borrow" a few designs from brj (hysperian, jekyll) so they have a base to offer multiscale and erg guitars, and skip the bronze series altogether.

If Chapman can offer decent guitars for not a lot of money, why couldn't they ? 
And they could match the quality of the 2008~ NT series that would be a good start.


----------



## canuck brian

They failed because they never offered the Ignitor outside of the custom shop.

I mean there are other reasons, but that's the one that I'm going to stick with.


----------



## Mathemagician

Man if they just came back with like 4 body shapes with decent specs in the $600-1800 price range for the first year or two they’d rebuild brand equity fast.

You don’t need a new model every $50-100 unless you have Gibson/fender clout.

Range 1- $599-750 MII

Range 2- $799-1200 MIK/MIM

Range 3- $1300-1800 MIJ

Profit. Everybody trust me I’m already CEO of a guitar company. Don’t look into it.


----------



## jco5055

Mathemagician said:


> Man if they just came back with like 4 body shapes with decent specs in the $600-1800 price range for the first year or two they’d rebuild brand equity fast.
> 
> You don’t need a new model every $50-100 unless you have Gibson/fender clout.
> 
> Range 1- $599-750 MII
> 
> Range 2- $799-1200 MIK/MIM
> 
> Range 3- $1300-1800 MIJ
> 
> Profit. Everybody trust me I’m already CEO of a guitar company. Don’t look into it.



What 4 shapes you think would work best?

I'm thinking Bich, Warlock, Stealth, and Ironbird.

I am happy to see that at least the current Custom Shop seems to be of a great quality, like literally half of all guitars I've owned have been BC Rich and both are just great guitars and they were both only like $1000 street price new. Everytime I get the urge to just like form/write pure extreme metal it seems like a BC Rich would be best for that. I'd think it would be cool if they designed an off set/Rhoads style V also since that's my favorite extreme shape.


----------



## Mathemagician

1) Either an Assassin/Gunslinger (vanilla super Strat)

2) Warlock (iconic shape)

3) Bich (another safe model)

4) Either a stealth (hitting the Jackson Warrior note) OR a Flying V

Either way this is their “fun & pointy” shape to round out the Warlock/Bich/X side of things. I personally want to see an ironbird but without SEVERAL high profile guys playing them you’re just hoping that specs alone sell the models.

Meanwhile they’ve missed the bandwagon where Schecter upped all the specs in the midrange and raked in cash for the last several years.

Having a straightforward and safe lineup would be a great way to re-introduce the brand. But 3 tiers of 4 models is 12 models at once and assuming you want two colors for each option that’s 24 models. So that’s black and red (or black and white) as your two options. Start adding differing hardware colors or interesting tops and now you’re north of 50 SKU’s as that’s too much too fast.

That ignores fretboard materials, and hardtail versus trem.

I definitely feel it can be re-launched but it’s going to take a very shrewd management team with compensation tied to performance. But you can’t get good management cheaply (especially turn-around managers) so that right there is another catch 22.

Not a scenario I would want to have be my daily headache or have my bonuses tied to. I mean nothing I’ve said is interesting or novel, managing a company or brand is hard AF is the tl;dr.


----------



## jco5055

You do make a good point about Schecter, I wish I was like 5 years younger so that when I was buying my first non-beginner guitar I had Schecter to choose from because those mid-tier $800-$1300 guitars they have are a lot better spec wise for other brands at the same price.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Counterpoint: the last thing they need to come out with is a Super Strat. 

They typically never really sold well unless they were supported by a bigger artist or were unique in the marketplace at the time.

They need to bring the heritage shapes back in force. That doesn't mean they need to offer a million configurations, put the same hardware and electronics in everything. Keep finishes super basic, perhaps just one choice. 

The big problem is image. Sure, a bunch of guys remember "Old BC Rich", but that demographic is shrinking. They need to look towards the future, not the past.

I feel they could benefit from a complete rebranding. Folks love the shapes, not the baggage.


----------



## jco5055

Call me crazy but I think they need to offer Kahler trems as a regular option...I know they aren't nearly as popular as FR but to me at least a true golden-era BC Rich has one.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jco5055 said:


> Call me crazy but I think they need to offer Kahler trems as a regular option...I know they aren't nearly as popular as FR but to me at least a true golden-era BC Rich has one.



Eh, maybe. 

Trems themselves are less popular right now, and big cumbersome ones are even less popular than that. Not to mention the quality of Kahler units is pretty poor at the moment.

I say go as far from Old BC Rich as possible. No Quad bridges, no million switches and knobs, no deco tuner. Use contemporary hardware and electronics. That way you're not directly competing with five decades of used gear.


----------



## possumkiller

Yeap. Seven string Bich, Warlock, Ironbird and Mockingbird with Evertune bridge, Hipshot locking tuners, Fishman pickups and a blue burst poplar burl veneer top.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> Yeap. Seven string Bich, Warlock, Ironbird and Mockingbird with Evertune bridge, Hipshot locking tuners, Fishman pickups and a blue burst poplar burl veneer top.



Ugh, as gross as that sounds, it would probably be far more successful than anything they've done in the last five or so years.


----------



## Cynicanal

I actually thought that post was serious until I got to "poplar burl veneer top".


----------



## manu80

Get some players in good reckoned bands first. that will give your brand some display. Kerry king is out of the game. Metalcore bands or death bands.
Then get a good factory with a good quality control.
3/4 price range top like said before.
Warlock, V, Stealth or bich as brand pillars and then special series like ignitor, wave or Iron bird.
And I'd keep a SS shape so that the non pointy people still can come to BC rich. Like an assasiin or the gunslinger for ex.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I swear this speculation is going to last longer than the revived brand at this rate.


----------



## Seabeast2000

KnightBrolaire said:


> BC Rich should've died in the 80/90s along with dean. Some of the worst designs ever created imo (except the eagle).


I agree, let it die we can always buy an FRX or DBZ for extreme shapes.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

i think their body shapes look better with binding on them rather than bevels


----------



## A-Branger

MaxOfMetal said:


> the last thing they need to come out with is a Super Strat


so much yup in there.

everyone "wants" one, but true be told, once they release a gunslider, everyone is gonna go "meh, I rather get a RG instead"

stick to the original shapes like Mockingbird, warlock, bitch, and maybe a V... but with nice specs/colors to take the "black/metal/15yrd old kid" image away


----------



## Seabeast2000

https://www.trademarkia.com/bc-rich-75777394.html

So Kustom Amps owns the name?


----------



## twguitar

No Hanser owned BCR, Kustom, Michael Kelly and a few others. They sold MK a few years ago and have recently sold BCR to owners who will be publicly revealed at winter NAMM


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

twguitar said:


> No Hanser owned BCR, Kustom, Michael Kelly and a few others. They sold MK a few years ago and have recently sold BCR to owners who will be publicly revealed at winter NAMM



MK became a much better brand after being sold. So much cool shit released. 

Can't say the same for BC Rich, which sucks.


----------



## canuck brian

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, maybe.
> 
> Trems themselves are less popular right now, and big cumbersome ones are even less popular than that. Not to mention the quality of Kahler units is pretty poor at the moment.



I've inspected more bridges and I should be receiving another 3 in the mail - their quality is pretty top notch. It's just when you store a bridge for many years with the cam locked under maximum tension it causes stress fractures and warps the base that the quality turns to crap. BC Rich would have to throw out half their bridges for the KKV models and Kahler hasn't had to replace their baseplates.

BC Rich would be #1 if they'd just make Ignitors.


----------



## ArtDecade

Bring back the Lita sig.


----------



## twguitar

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> MK became a much better brand after being sold. So much cool shit released.
> 
> Can't say the same for BC Rich, which sucks.


 The same team stayed on at MK for quite a while. Tim Keys who ran both BCR and MK produced some incredible imports over the years. 

We haven't seen anything form the new owners yet so only time will tell. Im done with the imports though, they'll never be what they once were


----------



## jonsick

I would just love a decently made Warlock. And please, enough on black guitars. Any other colours that exist in the world would be great.


----------



## manu80

The ziricote one they made last year looked great but way overpriced....


----------



## zappatton2

jonsick said:


> I would just love a decently made Warlock. And please, enough on black guitars. Any other colours that exist in the world would be great.


I've had my ideal Warlock speced out for over a decade now, just can't seem to squirrel away money. But it's definitely NOT black.


----------



## oppgulp

A Bich or a Warlock with a Kahler would be nice! And get rid of that ugly widow headstock please!


----------



## zappatton2

oppgulp said:


> A Bich or a Warlock with a Kahler would be nice! And get rid of that ugly widow headstock please!


Agreed, except on an _actual_ Widow. I've often dreamed of owning a Widow bass, and no other headstock will do.


----------



## oppgulp

zappatton2 said:


> Agreed, except on an _actual_ Widow. I've often dreamed of owning a Widow bass, and no other headstock will do.



Didn't think about the Widow body shape but I agree - that body looks best with the Widow headstock.


----------



## jonsick

I have an old Japanese Warlock. Anytime I have owned a modern BC Rich, my old Japanese box has just put it to shame. Thus I never kept modern BC Rich. At this point, I'd be quite happy if they issued something to the quality of the 90s NJ series.


----------



## Cynicanal

So, this is maybe a bit off topic, but it's kind of on-topic, and this is the big BC Rich thread, so...

Does anyone know what the standard specs for a 1999 USA Custom would be for fretboard radius and frets? There's something about my USA Beast's fretboard that feels different than any of my other guitars, and makes it feel _ridiculously_ good for hammer-ons and pull-offs, but I can't figure out what it is; the frets look like they might be a touch smaller, but that also could easily be an illusion since it's got a bound fingerboard, and I've got no way of measuring any of this stuff. Wish I could get another guitar that replicates this feel, but without knowing what's doing it, I'd be just buying blind.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Cynicanal said:


> So, this is maybe a bit off topic, but it's kind of on-topic, and this is the big BC Rich thread, so...
> 
> Does anyone know what the standard specs for a 1999 USA Custom would be for fretboard radius and frets? There's something about my USA Beast's fretboard that feels different than any of my other guitars, and makes it feel _ridiculously_ good for hammer-ons and pull-offs, but I can't figure out what it is; the frets look like they might be a touch smaller, but that also could easily be an illusion since it's got a bound fingerboard, and I've got no way of measuring any of this stuff. Wish I could get another guitar that replicates this feel, but without knowing what's doing it, I'd be just buying blind.



For ~$20 you can buy a caliper and some radius gauges on eBay. Both come in handy for setup, so it would be a good investment either way. If you're the type to take your guitar to a tech for setup, just ask them.


----------



## Cynicanal

I'm usually the "take it to a tech" type (I'm really bad with "handy"/tool using stuff [and some of my guitars where I have done some work myself show evidence of this; the hipshot bridge on my Kiesel has a big scratch in it from a setup-gone-bad, for instance]; I've had major fine-motor skills problems since I was a little kid [ironic for a guitarist] and know my limitations) but this one came so perfect out of the box that I don't want to let a tech anywhere near it. Paying a $60 bench fee just to get some measurements on it seems... ouch.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Cynicanal said:


> I'm usually the "take it to a tech" type (I'm really bad with "handy"/tool using stuff [and some of my guitars where I have done some work myself show evidence of this; the hipshot bridge on my Kiesel has a big scratch in it from a setup-gone-bad, for instance]; I've had major fine-motor skills problems since I was a little kid [ironic for a guitarist] and know my limitations) but this one came so perfect out of the box that I don't want to let a tech anywhere near it. Paying a $60 bench fee just to get some measurements on it seems... ouch.



If the guy you take your guitars to tries to charge you for this, find a new tech. Also, $60 bench fee? Ouch. The most I charged was a $50 minimum with a string change. 

That said, you don't really need to do anything to measure with those tools, you lay them on the guitar and look at the numbers/see if they fit. It's so straight forward you could probably do it with your feet. You don't even have to loosen the strings.


----------



## twguitar

Cynicanal said:


> So, this is maybe a bit off topic, but it's kind of on-topic, and this is the big BC Rich thread, so...
> 
> Does anyone know what the standard specs for a 1999 USA Custom would be for fretboard radius and frets? There's something about my USA Beast's fretboard that feels different than any of my other guitars, and makes it feel _ridiculously_ good for hammer-ons and pull-offs, but I can't figure out what it is; the frets look like they might be a touch smaller, but that also could easily be an illusion since it's got a bound fingerboard, and I've got no way of measuring any of this stuff. Wish I could get another guitar that replicates this feel, but without knowing what's doing it, I'd be just buying blind.



Radius wide is going to be pretty flat, even back in the day BCR were using a 16' radius. The stuff in the 90s was still being built in Mexico and the specs were pretty much whatever they felt like and very inconsistent other than feeling pretty good. Get it to a tech and they should be able to sort you out.


----------



## canuck brian

I'm actually hopeful for this years NAMM. 

For years I've wanted either an Ignitor or a Speed V like Kerry's 1991 V (so no stupid tribal stuff or silly headstock - inline reverse 6). If either of those comes out, I'll buy.


----------



## The Wraith

B.C. Rich USA died in December 1989, it was kept on life support for 2 years with forgeries and parts mutts until it regained consciousness in 1992. It recovered in 1994 but sadly died again in December 1999. The name was sold to the Hansers who carried it pretty well, even kept part of the Rico family involved for quite a long time (BRJ) who supplied the USA's ..... until Gary found out that they were being made in Mexico, the USA line has been ghost built ever since, mostly by Voodoo Guitars out of Cincinnati until 2016, now it's Mammoth Guitars, of which there are 2 with this name, one in Georgia with a legitimate business registration with the GA Secretary of State, and one in California (that does the BCR USA's) that I couldn't find anything on other than a facebook page. The Official BCR facebook page says there will be an announcement at NAMM, but the preview pictures that they have been showing are of old NJ Deluxe models that have EMG's with the logo font that was changed several years ago. Gary has made some bad decisions the last few years, like licensing the brand to an Asian exporter (Praxis) who failed so badly they fired the Managing Director for the US. At the same time, he contracted the CS to an individual who created the largest online community of fans, who brought the enthusiasm to heights that it hadn't seen since the 80's, brought back the nostalgia by putting some of the 80's employees back in the BCR Game, like Estrada, Moser, Cervantes, and Lawrence, and cut the pricing in half (CS's were averaging $8 Grand prior) then fired him over nothing to do with BCR, just influenced by some who didn't like the guy. I mean, the only guitar brand they have now is Traben and I think it's been shelved for a while now, and they sold the distribution side (Davitt & Hanser) to JAM Industries a few years ago. I have my fingers crossed that next year brings great news, but I'm not holding my breath .....


----------



## ArtDecade

The Wraith said:


> B.C. Rich USA died in December 1989, it was kept on life support for 2 years with forgeries and parts mutts until it regained consciousness in 1992. It recovered in 1994 but sadly died again in December 1999. The name was sold to the Hansers who carried it pretty well, even kept part of the Rico family involved for quite a long time (BRJ) who supplied the USA's ..... until Gary found out that they were being made in Mexico, the USA line has been ghost built ever since, mostly by Voodoo Guitars out of Cincinnati until 2016, now it's Mammoth Guitars, of which there are 2 with this name, one in Georgia with a legitimate business registration with the GA Secretary of State, and one in California (that does the BCR USA's) that I couldn't find anything on other than a facebook page. The Official BCR facebook page says there will be an announcement at NAMM, but the preview pictures that they have been showing are of old NJ Deluxe models that have EMG's with the logo font that was changed several years ago. Gary has made some bad decisions the last few years, like licensing the brand to an Asian exporter (Praxis) who failed so badly they fired the Managing Director for the US. At the same time, he contracted the CS to an individual who created the largest online community of fans, who brought the enthusiasm to heights that it hadn't seen since the 80's, brought back the nostalgia by putting some of the 80's employees back in the BCR Game, like Estrada, Moser, Cervantes, and Lawrence, and cut the pricing in half (CS's were averaging $8 Grand prior) then fired him over nothing to do with BCR, just influenced by some who didn't like the guy. I mean, the only guitar brand they have now is Traben and I think it's been shelved for a while now, and they sold the distribution side (Davitt & Hanser) to JAM Industries a few years ago. I have my fingers crossed that next year brings great news, but I'm not holding my breath .....



Blah Blah Blah.... bring back the Lita signature!


----------



## oppgulp

Any rumors before NAMM?


----------



## Rosal76

zappatton2 said:


> I've had my ideal Warlock speced out for over a decade now, just can't seem to squirrel away money. But it's definitely NOT black.



I know the feeling. I had my dream Warlock specced in 2006. Still have the American handcrafted quote sheet B.C. Rich sent to the music store, which I got. It was gonna be metallic silver, Beast headstock with a black "R" logo. The "R" logo would have been abalone but Gamal Nagi (B.C. Rich's customer service representative at the time) suggested that it be black because he didn't think a abalone "R" logo could be seen clearly on a headstock that was metallic silver. Anyways, when I saw the asking price ($3,745) on the spec sheet, boy, that dream guitar went up in flames real fast. LOL! B.C. Rich is still building U.S. custom shop guitars so I may have them build that guitar for me one day.


----------



## Rosal76

oppgulp said:


> A Bich or a Warlock with a Kahler would be nice! And get rid of that ugly widow headstock please!



Maybe something like this?


----------



## Aliascent

Rosal76 said:


> Maybe something like this?



Oh yes. make it reverse headstock + ebony board and it's perfect.


----------



## twguitar

Rosal76 said:


> I know the feeling. I had my dream Warlock specced in 2006. Still have the American handcrafted quote sheet B.C. Rich sent to the music store, which I got. It was gonna be metallic silver, Beast headstock with a black "R" logo. The "R" logo would have been abalone but Gamal Nagi (B.C. Rich's customer service representative at the time) suggested that it be black because he didn't think a abalone "R" logo could be seen clearly on a headstock that was metallic silver. Anyways, when I saw the asking price ($3,745) on the spec sheet, boy, that dream guitar went up in flames real fast. LOL! B.C. Rich is still building U.S. custom shop guitars so I may have them build that guitar for me one day.


Are you on any of the BCR FB groups? I run the BC Rich Unlimited group which you might enjoy


----------



## oppgulp

Rosal76 said:


> Maybe something like this?



Yes, something similar to that would be really cool!


----------



## Athor

twguitar said:


> Are you on any of the BCR FB groups? I run the BC Rich Unlimited group which you might enjoy


Cant recommend this group enough!


----------



## twguitar

Athor said:


> Cant recommend this group enough!


Cheers! We try to have a laugh as well as some serious BCR porn


----------



## Rosal76

twguitar said:


> Are you on any of the BCR FB groups? I run the BC Rich Unlimited group which you might enjoy



Hey, twguitar. Cool. I will send a member request.


----------



## Cynicanal

Me too (I'm the guy who in the first question mentions a 1999 USA Beast).


----------



## wedge_destroyer

twguitar said:


> Are you on any of the BCR FB groups? I run the BC Rich Unlimited group which you might enjoy



If I used Facebook Id be on that shit like white on rice....


----------



## twguitar

Its there a general main BC Rich thread? Would be cool to see what everyone has and just general BCR chat/help?


----------



## mogar

All I want from BC Rich is a Korean/Japanese made Warlock II with a Gotoh 510 and double humbuckers. Will probably never happen.


----------



## eggy in a bready

so i just impulse bought a bernie sr. handmade 7-string mockingbird. kind of unsure how i feel about it. half stoked as fuck on it, half slight buyer's remorse. oh well

pics when it gets here


----------



## oppgulp

Any news before NAMM?


----------



## twguitar

oppgulp said:


> Any news before NAMM?


They won’t be there. Taking time before the new launch rather than rushing.


----------



## Cynicanal

Just saw this on Facebook... what the FUCK is going on at BC Rich?!?!


----------



## Aliascent

Cynicanal said:


> Just saw this on Facebook... what the FUCK is going on at BC Rich?!?!


Mockingbird with a pointy headstock...


----------



## jonsick

They did have pointy headstocks for quite a while.

I wonder if any of their 2019 offerings will actually, you know, be available...


----------



## Athor

Even tho i dont like the look of the Mockingbird, i think this is a good sign that they ASK before they produce alot of crap no one wants to buy!

I am hopeful.


----------



## Mathemagician

Cynicanal said:


> Just saw this on Facebook... what the FUCK is going on at BC Rich?!?!



I mean, it does work with the model. I just think the 3x3 headstock is more reserved and offsets how aggressive some shapes appear.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Aliascent said:


> Mockingbird with a pointy headstock...



Looks great when its not reversed. But reverse, well ewww. I hope they don't do that to the Ironbird.


----------



## Viginez

it's not only the headstock. they also changed the body contours a bit.
i don't care for this model, but if asked, i like the older one better.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Fuck I didn't even notice the body at first, but looking again, it's worse than ironbird mk1 vs mk2.


----------



## cardinal

Oh noooooooooo please don't screw up the body shapes. Really? WTF man.

Why does running BC Rich seem so hard? Seems like it would be a no brainer. You have the body shapes. Just rotate through which shapes are offered at various levels of hardware/finishes/price points (entry, basic, "premium"). Done. Why why why screw it up with this stuff?


----------



## Aliascent

I know they had some mockingbirds with pointy headstocks before, but for me the 3x3 just works better.
Not sure about the new shape too, could have been worse but the classic shape is perfect imho.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

cardinal said:


> Oh noooooooooo please don't screw up the body shapes. Really? WTF man.
> 
> Why does running BC Rich seem so hard? Seems like it would be a no brainer. You have the body shapes. Just rotate through which shapes are offered at various levels of hardware/finishes/price points (entry, basic, "premium"). Done. Why why why screw it up with this stuff?



Because people think their name is Rube Goldberg?


----------



## Cynicanal

I don't have a link handy, but they also showed off a "new" Warlock shape on their FB with redesigned, longer horns (it wasn't a Warbeast, it was something entirely new). It wasn't as awful as this atrocity, but still... why?


----------



## CapinCripes

Cynicanal said:


> Just saw this on Facebook... what the FUCK is going on at BC Rich?!?!


Kill me. Fuck that's awful.


----------



## possumkiller

So I guess it's safe to assume that BCR is still dead... Nobody is going to buy that slightly redesigned bullshit.


----------



## Viginez

notice how almost nobody even noticed the difference
they care about stuff that nobody cares about


----------



## spudmunkey

It wasn't that it wasn't noticed, but they had something so obviously different that it didn't even occur to me that they changed anything else. I thought it was just a headstock poll.

I've been a fan of the Mockingbird shape for decades and never bought one so my opinion is essentially worthless to them. It's one of my all-time favorite shapes, but never threw any money their way. With that said, I do dislike the 2019 shape. I don't mind so much that they shrunk the upper bout area, but what I really dislike is how they extended the "back" of the body, explorer-style. It looks off-balance. I can't say if it looks that way on it's own, or just compared to the old one...but I prefer the old one in the A/B image. Both the body shape and headstock.


----------



## Cynicanal

...Am I the only person who saw the body shape changes before noticing the headstock was different?

Given that they've done pointy-headstocked Mockingbirds before (although not reverse, as far as I know), that didn't even register with me as anything unusual. That body shape change, though... that's puke-worthy.


----------



## possumkiller

Yeah if this is supposed to be their ace in their hole they may as well just let the brand die.


----------



## mguilherme87

Cynicanal said:


> Just saw this on Facebook... what the FUCK is going on at BC Rich?!?!


Im not really a BC Rich fan, though my friend had an old 80's Warlock and an old Mockingbird with this cool pink snakeskin finish that actually sounded pretty good. I dont mind this new pointy headstock either! Still not my thing, but I'm not against the design.


----------



## Rosal76

Cynicanal said:


> I don't have a link handy, but they also showed off a "new" Warlock shape on their FB with redesigned, longer horns (it wasn't a Warbeast, it was something entirely new). It wasn't as awful as this atrocity, but still... why?



I haven't seen the pictures of the redesigned Warlock on their Facebook page but I am certainly interested in seeing how it looks like. If the redesigned shape looks anything like Brian Hoffman's long horned Warlock pictured below, man, I'll bite on that.


----------



## SJShinn

Oh for fucks sake... Changing, (for the worse I may add!) what is arguably one of their best and most iconic body shape is a TERRIBLE idea for a comeback. I have been waiting fairly impatiently to see whats been cooking with B.C Rich, and seeing that just makes me feel like they might be on the wrong track with this one.


----------



## ElysianGuitars

Cynicanal said:


> Just saw this on Facebook... what the FUCK is going on at BC Rich?!?!


Damn, baby got back.


----------



## zappatton2

...but does it neck-dive?...

Still prefer the original!


----------



## Cynicanal

Rosal76 said:


> I haven't seen the pictures of the redesigned Warlock on their Facebook page but I am certainly interested in seeing how it looks like. If the redesigned shape looks anything like Brian Hoffman's long horned Warlock pictured below, man, I'll bite on that.


The new design, based on what they've shown, looks like that top horn with a regular bottom horn
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=831852373819004&set=gm.2039813719406521&type=3&theater&ifg=1
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2576496759043943&set=g.360896927298217&type=1&theater&ifg=1


----------



## twguitar

Does no one remember when BRJ did his take on the Mock?? The Hyde. Much better than that slightly squeezed photoshop. 

Give BCR a chance is what I’d say, the new owners are getting on their feet and working things out but it’s looking promising!


----------



## possumkiller

Yes I do. I remember BRJ made like one shape that wasn't horrible.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Unpopular opinion: the Mockingbird is the ugliest BCR shape ever made.


----------



## Aliascent

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> Unpopular opinion: the Mockingbird is the ugliest BCR shape ever made.



That's a weird way to spell Draco.

Anyway, I'm very interested in the longhorn warlock, especially if it has a spalted maple top. I'll even give the abalone binding a pass.


----------



## twguitar

Cynicanal said:


> The new design, based on what they've shown, looks like that top horn with a regular bottom horn
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=831852373819004&set=gm.2039813719406521&type=3&theater&ifg=1
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2576496759043943&set=g.360896927298217&type=1&theater&ifg=1


Thats just the flattop when you're used to seeing bevels, makes it look longer but no shape change there


----------



## cardinal

Could be the angle of the photo, but the horn looks longer to me. I've had many Warlocks, both beveled and with bound flat tops. That looks off to me, but again it could also be the angle of the pic or the camera lens causing it to look off.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Aliascent said:


> That's a weird way to spell Draco.
> 
> Anyway, I'm very interested in the longhorn warlock, especially if it has a spalted maple top. I'll even give the abalone binding a pass.


Oh fuck, I forgot all about the draco . I take back what I said, the Mockingbird is the 2nd worst shape they have.


----------



## Cynicanal

You guys are crazy, the Draco is cool as hell, albeit impractical. The Wrath and Beast V are their worst shapes.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

The beast V, damn you! I had that one blocked out...


----------



## Athor

I HOPE they release a Speed V with a kahler and inline headstock again. That was wicked


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Athor said:


> I HOPE they release a Speed V with a kahler and inline headstock again. That was wicked



I'm onboard, with that for most old school body shapes, some are better with 3x3.


----------



## R34CH

I don't really care which is ugliest, but can we at least all agree that the Ignitor is (by far) the best BC Rich shape?

That shape takes me back to the Alive in Athens DVD from Iced Earth. Ahhhh the memoriezzz.


----------



## Cynicanal

Nah, the Beast is the best. Followed by the Ironbird.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I uh


actually like the redesigned fuckybird


----------



## wedge_destroyer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I uh
> 
> 
> actually like the redesigned fuckybird



Dude, it looks like it got raped by a Kelly and was born with a claw hand.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

wedge_destroyer said:


> Dude, it looks like it got raped by a Kelly and was born with a claw hand.



I've seen MUCh worse. From BC Rich's lineup alone.


----------



## Rosal76

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I've seen MUCh worse. From BC Rich's lineup alone.



Remember that U.S. custom shop, one off/one of a kind Mockingbird guitar that Guitar Asylum (music store) had years ago? Man, that thing was crazy looking! When people saw it, they though a B.C. Rich guitar builder came to work drunk, started to carve a Mockingbird, or so he thought, messed up, threw in the trash, another guitar builder saw it in the trash and then finished it. And then Guitar Asylum picked it up. LOL! Jokes aside, it looked like something Pablo Santana (Jackson U.S. custom shop guitar builder) would have built. Like his version of a "extreme Mockingbird". It was funny because people called it a "polished turd" because even though it looked really weird, the craftsmanship was still there because it was built by the U.S. custom shop. When you start modifying guitars that already look weird, the results sometimes don't work.


----------



## twguitar

The Mockingbird SLE!

It genuinely was a mistake.... builder was playing a round and it was left for years before being finished up as something different for NAMM. I’ve spent a while discussing this one in the past and if you slightly adjust the angle of the neck blank it’s not that bad. Glad it didn’t go any further though!



Rosal76 said:


> Remember that U.S. custom shop, one off/one of a kind Mockingbird guitar that Guitar Asylum (music store) had years ago? Man, that thing was crazy looking! When people saw it, they though a B.C. Rich guitar builder came to work drunk, started to carve a Mockingbird, or so he thought, messed up, threw in the trash, another guitar builder saw it in the trash and then finished it. And then Guitar Asylum picked it up. LOL! Jokes aside, it looked like something Pablo Santana (Jackson U.S. custom shop guitar builder) would have built. Like his version of a "extreme Mockingbird". It was funny because people called it a "polished turd" because even though it looked really weird, the craftsmanship was still there because it was built by the U.S. custom shop. When you start modifying guitars that already look weird, the results sometimes don't work.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I've seen MUCh worse. From BC Rich's lineup alone.



Not disputing that in the slightest , I mean there is a list and that thing belongs on it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Oh yeah, that Fuckybird above is DEFINITELY an abomination. It's like if the Elephant Man became a guitar.


----------



## Rosal76

twguitar said:


> The Mockingbird SLE!



Yes!!! Man, that thing! LOL. Guitar Asylum had some really nice custom shop guitars. Remember that 8 string Beast guitar that they had? It definitely lived up to its name. LOL! That thing was freaking huge!


----------



## canuck brian

This is what happens when you don't make the Ignitor available to people.


----------



## canuck brian

Athor said:


> I HOPE they release a Speed V with a kahler and inline headstock again. That was wicked



So Kerry's pre-ESP BC Rich V? I'll order two of those if they'd do it.

So long as they use the Speed V and not the Junior V.


----------



## Mathemagician

canuck brian said:


> So Kerry's pre-ESP BC Rich V? I'll order two of those if they'd do it.
> 
> So long as they use the Speed V and not the Junior V.



What’s the difference?

For example Jackson says they have a “double Rhoads” V, but t just looks like a King V to me....


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Mathemagician said:


> What’s the difference?
> 
> For example Jackson says they have a “double Rhoads” V, but t just looks like a King V to me....



Nah, the Double Roads is fucking huge. Then again, the guy that helped design it (Robin Crosby) was fucking huge as well at 6'6. 

The speed V is a completely different shape.

Speed V (AKA the BC Rich KKV, ESP KKV, ESP NV)






The JRV


----------



## Mathemagician

Ah ok. It’s the Texas approach. Got it. 

Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Jazz hands got to it while I was typing...


----------



## possumkiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Nah, the Double Roads is fucking huge. Then again, the guy that helped design it (Robin Crosby) was fucking huge as well at 6'6.
> 
> The speed V is a completely different shape.
> 
> Speed V (AKA the BC Rich KKV, ESP KKV, ESP NV)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The JRV


Actually that is the new speed v shape (2nd gen BCR kkv sig). The old BCR kkv is the same shape as the ESP kkv/nv which does have straight lines but at different angles making the wings fatter and shorter.


----------



## canuck brian

Mathemagician said:


> What’s the difference?
> 
> For example Jackson says they have a “double Rhoads” V, but t just looks like a King V to me....



The Junior's not as wide and the tips angle in at the end a little bit. Its slight, but enough to irritate the hell out of me.

The double Rhoads is just a wee bit longer in the wings/horns.


----------



## Athor

canuck brian said:


> So Kerry's pre-ESP BC Rich V? I'll order two of those if they'd do it.
> 
> So long as they use the Speed V and not the Junior V.


Yeah pretty much that one indeed.


----------



## Athor

canuck brian said:


> The Junior's not as wide and the tips angle in at the end a little bit. Its slight, but enough to irritate the hell out of me.
> 
> The double Rhoads is just a wee bit longer in the wings/horns.


Yeah cant stand the Jr V shape, same as the ESP Vs (not speed v) i hate the shape of those, the body seems oversized compared to the neck/headstock or something. They are just awful.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Athor said:


> Yeah cant stand the Jr V shape, same as the ESP Vs (not speed v) i hate the shape of those, the body seems oversized compared to the neck/headstock or something. They are just awful.



The ESP V seems like it's somewheres between a King V and a Double rhoads.



possumkiller said:


> Actually that is the new speed v shape (2nd gen BCR kkv sig). The old BCR kkv is the same shape as the ESP kkv/nv which does have straight lines but at different angles making the wings fatter and shorter.



Ah, I knew something was off when I went back and compared the two.


----------



## Athor

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The ESP V seems like it's somewheres between a King V and a Double rhoads.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, I knew something was off when I went back and compared the two.


You are on to something with the ESP V. 

The VMNT Deans got the V shape right tho, i like those.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Athor said:


> You are on to something with the ESP V.
> 
> The VMNT Deans got the V shape right tho, i like those.



I can talk shit about Dean and Dave all I want... but yeah, the VMNT and Zero are cool as shit.


----------



## canuck brian

Athor said:


> You are on to something with the ESP V.
> 
> The VMNT Deans got the V shape right tho, i like those.



King's sig ESP V is a Speed V clone. ESP used to make a Grassroots brand V like that but i didn't have the cash around when they were making them.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

canuck brian said:


> King's sig ESP V is a Speed V clone. ESP used to make a Grassroots brand V like that but i didn't have the cash around when they were making them.



I think the thing we were talking about is the fact they altered the Speed V/KKV shape eventually. Like, the ESP KKV and NV use the old Speed V shape,


----------



## Aso

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The ESP V seems like it's somewheres between a King V and a Double rhoads.
> Ah, I knew something was off when I went back and compared the two.



Since I'm probably on of few that have a ESP NV and King V laying around. Here's the difference between the two. Hoping this year to get s double rhoads to add the the stack.
Blue one is the NV and the Green/Purple is the King V


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

*Digs self out of grave* I used to play nothing but BC Rich Dracos. They were easy to play sitting down and they sounded great...but note I said used to. Personally I wouldn't go back but that's just because I dig other things


----------



## possumkiller

So nothing from them at namm? Wasn't there supposed to be some big announcement and unveiling at namm?


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Apparently they didn't have enough time to get shit ready for NAMM but they're alive. They're working on their 50th anniversary stuff so they might do Summer NAMM. It seems they're trying to make a big comeback. Which would be nice considering they've been goddamn idiotic these past few years.


----------



## Andromalia

All I'd want is a warlock that doesn't suck. 800 € WMI made warlock with a fixed bridge I'm in. I'm still biting my balls not to have bought that blue one with white binding in Japan in 95.


----------



## mogar

Still crossing fingers for a $1k or under Warlock II.


----------



## mlp187

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> *Digs self out of grave* I used to play nothing but BC Rich Dracos. They were easy to play sitting down and they sounded great...but note I said used to. Personally I wouldn't go back but that's just because I dig other things


Welcome back!!! 
Was just thinking about the Draco model. Haven’t seen one in a long while. Then i thought about the last time i saw a gunslinger. Also been a long time.

I’m hoping for another gunslinger release, in a 7, even though i’ve already met my guitar quota for the year. 

Whatever happens, i wish bc rich well.


----------



## Konfyouzd

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> *Digs self out of grave* I used to play nothing but BC Rich Dracos. They were easy to play sitting down and they sounded great...but note I said used to. Personally I wouldn't go back but that's just because I dig other things


Drakkar only plays Schecters w abalone binding now.


----------



## D-EJ915

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The ESP V seems like it's somewheres between a King V and a Double rhoads.


The regular ESP V shape is the original double rhoads king v shape.


----------



## Mathemagician

Aso said:


> Since I'm probably on of few that have a ESP NV and King V laying around. Here's the difference between the two. Hoping this year to get s double rhoads to add the the stack.
> Blue one is the NV and the Green/Purple is the King V
> View attachment 66525
> View attachment 66524



I like the king V way more. I just like the fret access on the NV.


----------



## jonsick

I just saw a post on The Gear Page that BC Rich has been bought and to be rebuilt from the ground up. There will be an imminent press release. I have no idea behind the truth, the post is easily found on TGP so I hope I'm not just helping spread some bs...


----------



## Nick

Its a pity that BCR went to shit because in a time of guitars starting to look more and more like expensive furniture it would be great to get some quality Ironbirds into circulation again.


----------



## waffles

I guess part of me still wants a Beast. As a kid, I used to admire that shape a lot. Although I'll probably just play it for a few hours and then go back to my Ibanez right away.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Apparently the Tone King got a call or something during a recent live stream saying two people bought BC Rich, one of them being a rock star. Interesting, I guess. Still don't think it'll do much.


----------



## zappatton2

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Apparently the Tone King got a call or something during a recent live stream saying two people bought BC Rich, one of them being a rock star. Interesting, I guess. Still don't think it'll do much.


Well, there _was_ the Slash rumour. Wouldn't that be something though, BCR would have to introduce an LP. Or Slash could start playing the Exclusive 

In all seriousness though, I am excited to see what they have in store.


----------



## Mathemagician

Hey a big rock star name could do wonders for their marketing side. If the partnership is solid it could be the basis of a nice revamp. (Wishful thinking). 

I just want to see some dumb-awesome shapes in music stores again.


----------



## twguitar

It is not Slash, that is a fact. 
Expect something really soon


----------



## CapinCripes

twguitar said:


> It is not Slash, that is a fact.
> Expect something really soon


Fully expecting bc rich by kerry king. nothing but tribal.


----------



## possumkiller

The guys from black veil brides bought BCR? Or Kerry King?


----------



## CapinCripes

possumkiller said:


> The guys from black veil brides bought BCR?


God I hope not  arn't they playing schecter now?


----------



## MFB

CapinCripes said:


> arn't they playing schecter now?



What's the difference?


----------



## CapinCripes

MFB said:


> What's the difference?


Nothing, hope they are nice and happy there and never try to buy a company that rhymes with fe-cee-litch.


----------



## watson503

From what I've heard it isn't Kerry and he's not happy with the new ownership and whatever is going on over there.


----------



## CapinCripes

watson503 said:


> From what I've heard it isn't Kerry and he's not happy with the new ownership and whatever is going on over there.


Must be really bad if he's only just NOW complaining


----------



## MFB

Maybe they're not complying with his mandatory tribal button up work shirt policy?


----------



## CapinCripes

MFB said:


> Maybe they're not complying with his mandatory tribal button up work shirt policy?


I honestly havve no idea where that man's sense of taste went. He went from having one tasty ass gunmetal speed v that is almost my perfect V to something only ed hardy and guy fieri would love


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

watson503 said:


> From what I've heard it isn't Kerry and he's not happy with the new ownership and whatever is going on over there.



About time they introduce a strict No-Tribal policy.


----------



## CapinCripes

You see kerry king may be tacky as hell but i could stomach that because he knows what the hell BC riches are supposed to be, he was there in the golden years, yeah I would expect things in general to be fairly tacky but I would think he would still have a good handle on what made those golden year guitars so good. Lita ford is another rock-star i would trust with the general brand direction. But seeing that mock up of the "2019" mockingbird has me worried its somebody who has no idea why people like joe perry and rick derringer played them. Watch it be BRJ and Gene Simmons.


----------



## Viginez

CapinCripes said:


> But seeing that mock up of the "2019" mockingbird has me worried


i wonder why they even had an issue with the shape, people really cared about that?
i assume it's someone who is totally clueless about the brand and it's history and tries to play designer and introduces a headless as a next step. someone with the totally wrong concept.


----------



## Mathemagician

Viginez said:


> i wonder why they even had an issue with the shape, people really cared about that?
> i assume it's someone who is totally clueless about the brand and it's history and tries to play designer and introduces a headless as a next step. someone with the totally wrong concept.



Headless Warbeast. “We’ve eliminates any and all possibility of neck dive.”


----------



## Carl Kolchak

CapinCripes said:


> You see kerry king may be tacky as hell but i could stomach that because he knows what the hell BC riches are supposed to be, he was there in the golden years, yeah I would expect things in general to be fairly tacky but I would think he would still have a good handle on what made those golden year guitars so good. Lita ford is another rock-star i would trust with the general brand direction. But seeing that mock up of the "2019" mockingbird has me worried its somebody who has no idea why people like joe perry and rick derringer played them. Watch it be BRJ and Gene Simmons.



Where can this 2019 mock up be seen?


----------



## possumkiller

Headless multiscale 7 string ironbird pls


----------



## stevexc

Carl Kolchak said:


> Where can this 2019 mock up be seen?


http://sevenstring.org/threads/so-is-bc-rich-officially-dead.327419/page-35#post-4962359


----------



## Carl Kolchak

stevexc said:


> http://sevenstring.org/threads/so-is-bc-rich-officially-dead.327419/page-35#post-4962359


Yikes! The reverse ESP headstock looks like some botched organ transplant.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

possumkiller said:


> Headless multiscale 7 string ironbird pls


now that is a bc rich I would actually buy


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I legit have no clue why everyone just likes whining. The company is trying to do an overhaul and offer some things people might like. BC Rich fans like the reversed pointy headstock so they're adding more of it, trying to up quality, etc, etc.

My gripe is their custom shop is limited which is retarded considering how expensive it is. For that kinda coin they should do whatever the hell you ask for instead of telling you what they just won't do.

I used to really dig BC Rich, but I never got along with the necks and there was always something "almost but not quite" about all the models I've played. The brand just doesn't seem like it's for me but I'm glad they're still attempting to hang around. Every company seems to be chasing the djent crowd with a bunch of dumb guitars with "fad of the month" accessories and 18233 strings with fanned fret/multiscale hipster junk...so it's nice that BC Rich is trying to blend a little of their old school with a new approach without jumping on that bandwagon.

One thing for sure is it certainly beats the never ending supply of tired super strat designs for people with no damn imagination. Gimme a weird shape over that. If nothing else it's nice to look at from a crowd perspective.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

It's probably Kerry King.


----------



## CapinCripes

Just had a horrifying thought, maybe its that guy from five finger death punch that wanted a dean with an ar-15 carry handle monkey grip, that even dean thought was too silly and stopped selling. Yeah hes been playing his bc riches again recently apparently.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Nikki Sixx?


----------



## Aliascent

CapinCripes said:


> Fully expecting bc rich by kerry king. nothing but tribal.


The horror.


----------



## twguitar

Its not KK either. 

They have posted pictures of these 50th anniversary models that are USA made. Imports are coming but the new guys want to bring BCR back properly and aren't rushing it. The days of the crappy $99 pawn shop warlock are hopefully over!


----------



## possumkiller

In b4 "me and my friends would buy 30 of them if only it wasn't for that big ugly 12th fret inlay"!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I'd take Kerry King over Jr.


----------



## twguitar

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'd take Kerry King over Jr.


Its safe to say no Rico will ever be involved with BC Rich again.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

twguitar said:


> Its safe to say no Rico will ever be involved with BC Rich again.



I want to believe this so badly.


----------



## GraemeH

Wild out-there dream speculation; Slash. He played them before his LPs and still rocks his Mockingbird and others. He's come off a huge money re-union tour so he'd have the means, and his best Gibson is a fake anyway so that relationship is only a commercial consideration.

Disclaimer; it won't be, just fantasizing.


----------



## cardinal

I can’t imagine that it’s Slash, given that his Gibson deal is probably sweet. 

I can’t think of who else it might be other than Kerry King. Maybe he liked what Zakk Wylde has going?

I wish them all the best. Seems like something that would be reasonably self sustaining as long as the right Indo/Chinese factory is used and they don’t go bonkers trying for high volume.


----------



## jco5055

CapinCripes said:


> Just had a horrifying thought, maybe its that guy from five finger death punch that wanted a dean with an ar-15 carry handle monkey grip, that even dean thought was too silly and stopped selling. Yeah hes been playing his bc riches again recently apparently.



I was gonna say, if it ain't KK he's the only other person I can think that might have the money cuz no way does Trey or any other death metal guys got it.


----------



## Mathemagician

I hope it’s an actual “rock star” whose name and likeness can move units, think Dave Grohl Foo fighters/Nirvana level fame. 

IMO No one is going to go nuts for “that guy from Five Finger Death Punch”.

...watch it be that guy from five finger death punch. And watch him be a really nice guy. Lol.


----------



## spudmunkey

cardinal said:


> I can’t imagine that it’s Slash, given that his Gibson deal is probably sweet.
> 
> I can’t think of who else it might be other than Kerry King. Maybe he liked what Zakk Wylde has going?



That Zakk Wylde thing is a compelling reason WHY Slash might want to do it: ego. Guitarists with much smaller reaches than Slash have their own companies with their own names on them. That could have a big draw to someone who things their name can carry a brand.


----------



## cip 123

It's Jeff Kiesel.


----------



## exo

cip 123 said:


> It's Jeff Kiesel.


I can deal with that if I can get a 7 string multiscale Warlock with a compound radius ebony board.


----------



## dhgrind

cip 123 said:


> It's Jeff Kiesel.















76C4106E-8EAB-4BEB-A832-247A2D5BF307



__ dhgrind
__ Feb 20, 2019






Also that mockingbird is dope I’d take one with a reverse six stock and a gotoh floyd.


----------



## twguitar

Joking aside if BCR had a kiesel like set up it would be a dream come true for many


----------



## Zhysick

Whoever it is just bring the fucking bitches back. Coolest shape of all.


----------



## maliciousteve

I don't get why it's been so hard to put out what people want.

Classic BC Rich models, built well and without the fucking abalone binding or cheap shitty hardware.







^ the last decent thing they put out. They were amazing guitars for not a lot of money. Then they messed it up.


----------



## Viginez

^ would love that with 24 frets (ala rg565)


----------



## cardinal

twguitar said:


> Joking aside if BCR had a kiesel like set up it would be a dream come true for many



I think the problem has been getting the right “balance.” The shapes are extreme and Jimmy Page didn’t use one, so the big spender baby boomer crowd is put off. People of my gen are starting to get disposable income and nostalgic for 80s stuff, but the market is still going to be more limited than for something like ESP and Jackson/Charvel. Those guys seem to be able to get away with $4k+ for Superstrats. 

Can BC Rich find a reliable shop to build their neckthrus in that range? I dunno. The CNC Kiesel model is a good idea, but I assume the model’s success is partly based on volume of orders, and I just kinda doubt BC Rich can count on that volume. 

The import range should be easier, I would think. Guys buying import LTDs and Diamond Series would probably cross shop similarly spec’d BC Riches. Just rotate the models ever year to cover the basics (Mockingbird and Warlock probably in the permanent line up, alternate things like the Ironbird, Ignitor, Seagull, etc. every other year or something). I can’t imagine that this couldn’t do well.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

*Shrug*....I just want another Draco. Even though I wouldn't play it much..I kinda miss them


----------



## Andromalia

> People of my gen are starting to get disposable income and nostalgic for 80s stuff, but the market is still going to be more limited than for something like ESP and Jackson/Charvel.


The thing is, the only mainstream artists who played BC Rich played for an audience who doesn't care about guitars (ie, Jennifer Batten with MJ). The rest are people with very little market appeal. The 80es powerhouses were grabbed by other bands. 
The only dude I associate 100% with BC Rich is Blackie, and he's so under the radar nobody talked about him taking the company on a metal forum. And most people likely just remember Chris Holmes better because of his swimming pool "vodka" antics anyway.


----------



## gunshow86de

Time to start baseless rumors; Barry, Jo and Gavin from Bolt Thrower pooled their money together.


----------



## manu80

Releasing what people want ? They’re never happy !!! Lol...look at the solar thread...
I thought about Mustaine
No new deans at namm this year, played bc rich at the beginning and wanted to buy jackson but didn’t happen.....


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

The only BC Riches I've played that weren't of 80s/90s vintage had necks that could've been repurposed for use as support beams for a house.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> *Shrug*....I just want another Draco. Even though I wouldn't play it much..I kinda miss them


Wow, who thought we'd see Drakkar getting nostalgic in his autumn years?! 



manu80 said:


> Releasing what people want ? They’re never happy !!! Lol...look at the solar thread...
> I thought about Mustaine
> No new deans at namm this year, played bc rich at the beginning and wanted to buy jackson but didn’t happen.....


I doubt Mustaine owning BC Rich and having to deal with Kerry King would go well.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Andromalia said:


> And most people likely just remember Chris Holmes better because of his swimming pool "vodka" antics anyway.


You mean his WWF style vodka antics. Piece of shit dude he is.



> "By the way, the first half of the bottle of vodka was real, and after that he was filling it up with pool water."



Lita Ford says it ruined his career, and to that, given that it was pretty WWF at best and a blight on Hair Metal, I say good. 

I remember how great W.A.S.P. was when Chris got sacked and Bob Kulick stepped in as lead guitarist on The Crimson Idol. Not the first time Bob filled in for an alcoholic drug addict who'd rather get loaded than play on an album.


----------



## jonsick

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> *Shrug*....I just want another Draco. Even though I wouldn't play it much..I kinda miss them



I remember your rig pics! They looked like works of art; I even saved one off as inspiration way back when! It was one with the two marshall cabs, dracos, and a big ass sword. Looked awesome.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

jonsick said:


> I remember your rig pics! They looked like works of art; I even saved one off as inspiration way back when! It was one with the two marshall cabs, dracos, and a big ass sword. Looked awesome.


Ah yes...the good old kvlt edgelord rig. Wish I had kept one of the Dracos. Ah well


----------



## dr_game0ver

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> *Shrug*....I just want another Draco. Even though I wouldn't play it much..I kinda miss them


The Draco is the worst guitar ever!! And i want one... The black one, just cause i hate myself.


----------



## jonsick

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Ah yes...the good old kvlt edgelord rig. Wish I had kept one of the Dracos. Ah well



I did try to copy bits once. Most notable was the glass jars with the pebbles. Holy feck that was a pain in the dick at the gig! Set up my gear, added some accoutrements like the white LED lights to the cabs to spell out a stage moniker. One side died so only the other was lit up so it spelled out CK instead of SICK. People thought it was an underwear advert.

The little glow bulbs I put into the cheap glass caraffes looked cool with the black stones and the white light shining through evily. Of course I move a lot around the stage. One fell off mid-set and broke leading to glass shards and fecking rocks all over the place, the other survived but I couldn't pick the smegging thing up for a good ten minutes after the set as it was hotter than the jire of a hundred radioactive suns and felt weirdly soft... which it was... and I couldn't get my lamp light back out without breaking it too in the end. And the guy sweeping the stage after me was SO mad!

All in all, looked cool but total failure!


----------



## dhgrind

There’s a used Draco up on reverb rn


----------



## twguitar

I mean the Custom Shop is still active and built a draco or two last year


----------



## ArtDecade

gunshow86de said:


> Barry, Jo and Gavin from Bolt Thrower pooled their money together.



82 quid.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

twguitar said:


> I mean the Custom Shop is still active and built a draco or two last year


 A custom shop Draco would be cute..if I had the money to waste on a guitar I'm not likely to play.

Then again if I could get a V shaped neck on a Draco I'd probably play it more..hmm


----------



## jonsick

Have you tried ordering from BC Rich custom shop? I have via several dealers. Some came back stating it couldn't be ordered, others came back stating there was no response, one even went as best endeavours as they could (literally there was 2 weeks of back and forth) until he finally came to the conclusion that he wasn't actually even positive that the custom shop existed. This came from their rep. 

I gave up and went ESP. Still waiting, but I'll be happy with it when it shows up.


----------



## twguitar

jonsick said:


> Have you tried ordering from BC Rich custom shop? I have via several dealers. Some came back stating it couldn't be ordered, others came back stating there was no response, one even went as best endeavours as they could (literally there was 2 weeks of back and forth) until he finally came to the conclusion that he wasn't actually even positive that the custom shop existed. This came from their rep.
> 
> I gave up and went ESP. Still waiting, but I'll be happy with it when it shows up.



The Custom Shop is direct only now, cutting out dealers has dropped the prices massively. I got a quote for a mockingbird a few years ago for 11k!! Nothing overly special about it they just clearly didn't want to build for customers. Contact Ron through here and he can get back to you with a quote pretty quickly www.facebook.com/OfficialBCRichCustomShop/


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

jonsick said:


> Have you tried ordering from BC Rich custom shop? I have via several dealers. Some came back stating it couldn't be ordered, others came back stating there was no response, one even went as best endeavours as they could (literally there was 2 weeks of back and forth) until he finally came to the conclusion that he wasn't actually even positive that the custom shop existed. This came from their rep.
> 
> I gave up and went ESP. Still waiting, but I'll be happy with it when it shows up.





twguitar said:


> The Custom Shop is direct only now, cutting out dealers has dropped the prices massively. I got a quote for a mockingbird a few years ago for 11k!! Nothing overly special about it they just clearly didn't want to build for customers. Contact Ron through here and he can get back to you with a quote pretty quickly www.facebook.com/OfficialBCRichCustomShop/



I tried some time ago and got a whole list of things they wouldn't do...and they tried to force me into a basic model that was practically what you'd find in stores....for like 10k

There was a time they wouldn't do baritones, wouldn't do custom shapes, wouldn't do 7 strings, wouldn't do shape alterations..they wouldn't do pretty much anything that wasn't a standard guitar in a different color and they charged you a fuckton for it.


----------



## canuck brian

Hope the new guy makes the original gunmetal grey Kerry King Speed V with reversed headstock, the Chuck stealth and an Ignitor. 

It's like the 3 guitars i will never have.


----------



## oppgulp

BC Rich posted a Ironbird on their Instagram, but I don't know how to post a link to Instagram...


----------



## Rosal76

canuck brian said:


> Hope the new guy makes the original gunmetal grey Kerry King Speed V with reversed headstock,



Far from Kerry's grey V but this model they built a few years ago is pretty cool. If they release a import version of this, I honestly wouldn't mind buying one.


----------



## Athor

Posted on BCRs Instagram today. 

Some says its from the WMI factory in Korea. I hope thats true


----------



## cardinal

Kicking off the relaunch with the Widow bass is strong IMHO and I like it. I like to see what looks like the traditional headstock on the Bich and Mockingbirds there too.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Yeah my bassist has a widow bass and I love that damn thing. I'd really love a 5 string one with a P/J pickup combination


----------



## 777timesgod

Not to throw negativity around, as you know I have no problem with pointy shapes (or any shape for that matter, a good build is a good build regardless) but is the widow such a good seller? I only remember one model during the last decade that they released. Maybe they should start with their top selling shapes, which they logically must have underway.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

The widow is one of their most iconic shapes and BC Rich fans have asked for it. To be fair...I wonder how many since you don't see too many widows circulating..but I DO know the BC Rich fan base have requested them.

Then again they request ironbirds more than anything else and BCR act like they can't hear or see it


----------



## cardinal

777timesgod said:


> Not to throw negativity around, as you know I have no problem with pointy shapes (or any shape for that matter, a good build is a good build regardless) but is the widow such a good seller? I only remember one model during the last decade that they released. Maybe they should start with their top selling shapes, which they logically must have underway.



As a guitar, I don't think the Widow ever was particularly popular, though the headstock unfortunately was. But as a bass, it's pretty iconic, I think. So it's cool to me to see BC Rich leading off with it rather than what might be a "safer" choice like the Mockingbird or Warlock (which I would like to see also). The Warlock is my fav guitar shape of theirs, but sometimes it hasn't translated as well to bass.

The Ironbird is so underutilized, it's nearly criminal. Love that shape both for guitar and bass.


----------



## Athor

cardinal said:


> As a guitar, I don't think the Widow ever was particularly popular, though the headstock unfortunately was. But as a bass, it's pretty iconic, I think. So it's cool to me to see BC Rich leading off with it rather than what might be a "safer" choice like the Mockingbird or Warlock (which I would like to see also). The Warlock is my fav guitar shape of theirs, but sometimes it hasn't translated as well to bass.
> 
> The Ironbird is so underutilized, it's nearly criminal. Love that shape both for guitar and bass.


Agreed. They should really make Ironbirds again... Pretty much everyone likes those, even the BCR haters


----------



## Mathemagician

Anyone in contact with the BCR custom shop? Like have any artists or “guys who post on forums/FB groups a lot” ordered a custom shop in the last 1-2 years? 

Just curious what they’ve been up to while they work out their import line troubles.


----------



## Athor

Mathemagician said:


> Anyone in contact with the BCR custom shop? Like have any artists or “guys who post on forums/FB groups a lot” ordered a custom shop in the last 1-2 years?
> 
> Just curious what they’ve been up to while they work out their import line troubles.


Lots of people have bought customs lately, just check the facebook groups. They did a Stealth not long ago that was stunning! 

Also Slash got a few Bich customs for the last tour. I guess thats a good sign


----------



## watson503

This was posted on thegearpage early this morning - the pics are of guitars previously posted on the Instagram page... Bill Xavier's name is dropped and he was previously with Hanser and Peavey so maybe it is legit as I believe it was hinted by the Tone King the new owner was previously with Hanser:
"All I know
I was told by Mr bill Xavier he bought the company I asked him if he had a backer he said no but as I do not believe he has the funds for this I’m sure somebody with money is involved 
He got Ed Van Halen to Peavey and has many industry connections 
The pictures he sent me look like many of the B. C. Jr uncompleted neck thru guitars floating around supposedly made in USA but in reality made in Mexico and then finished by jr before his work stoppage 
I have pictures 
As they say 
Worth a thousand words"


----------



## twguitar

watson503 said:


> This was posted on thegearpage early this morning - the pics are of guitars previously posted on the Instagram page... Bill Xavier's name is dropped and he was previously with Hanser and Peavey so maybe it is legit as I believe it was hinted by the Tone King the new owner was previously with Hanser:
> "All I know
> I was told by Mr bill Xavier he bought the company I asked him if he had a backer he said no but as I do not believe he has the funds for this I’m sure somebody with money is involved
> He got Ed Van Halen to Peavey and has many industry connections
> The pictures he sent me look like many of the B. C. Jr uncompleted neck thru guitars floating around supposedly made in USA but in reality made in Mexico and then finished by jr before his work stoppage
> I have pictures
> As they say
> Worth a thousand words"


 
JR has nothing to do with this new set up. Im putting that out there straight away.


----------



## cardinal

I have no idea what's going on with the current company, but I'm pretty sure that even the vintage BC Riches that were really great were assembled and finished in California from body blanks made in Mexico, so if that's what the new outfit is doing, it shouldn't be shocking. 

But that quote seems to say that the body blanks simply "look" like the ones by Jr. that were made in Mexico and finished in the US. I don't know his expertise or what other info he has, but generally a vague pic of an unfinished body blank done by someone is going to look like... an unfinished body blank done by anyone else?


----------



## twguitar

The family that have always made BCR & BRJ guitars south of the border do have a few signatures on a build that you can spot but equally those continued in the USA as the guys moved from shop to shop. 
BCR hasn't had a body blank come out of Mexico since JR was involved, he got in a lot of trouble for it and that's why their relationship stopped. 
All these teaser shots that BCR have been putting out are made in the USA asides from that group shot with the widows which appears to be WMI in Korea.


----------



## Mathemagician

Quarterly “Neckthrough Ironbird” request comment.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

If they come out the gate with some of the more iconic BCR shapes, I can see that actually doing good for them. They need to do like Kramer did at NAMM and appeal with what they know people will buy a BCR for.


----------



## spudmunkey

Athor said:


> Agreed. They should really make Ironbirds again... Pretty much everyone likes those, even the BCR haters



I guess I'm a weirdo who loves the mockingbird, about hates just about all of their other shapes *especially* the Ironbird. Ha!


----------



## Athor

spudmunkey said:


> I guess I'm a weirdo who loves the mockingbird, about hates just about all of their other shapes *especially* the Ironbird. Ha!


Haha! I got turned on to BCR cause of the Superstrat models. And honestly the only other ones i like alot from BCR is the Ironbird and Stealth!


----------



## Mathemagician

Anyone is welcome in the “wistful BCR club”. Even those who are wrong and probably enjoy raisin cookies too.


----------



## spudmunkey

Mathemagician said:


> Anyone is welcome in the “wistful BCR club”. Even those who are wrong and probably enjoy raisin cookies too.



As long as they aren't pretending to be chocolate...


----------



## dr_game0ver

Mathemagician said:


> Anyone is welcome in the “wistful BCR club”. Even those who are wrong and probably enjoy raisin cookies too.


Says the guy who enjoys pineapples on pizzas. AND APPLE JUICE!!


----------



## Mathemagician

Wrong guy. I. Would. NEVER.


----------



## 777timesgod

twguitar said:


> The family that have always made BCR & BRJ guitars south of the border do have a few signatures on a build that you can spot but equally those continued in the USA as the guys moved from shop to shop.
> BCR hasn't had a body blank come out of Mexico since JR was involved, he got in a lot of trouble for it and that's why their relationship stopped.
> All these teaser shots that BCR have been putting out are made in the USA asides from that group shot with the widows which appears to be WMI in Korea.



I do remember the Custom shop models not having a "Made in USA" title below the logo some years ago and this prompted many to say that they were made in Mexico. Bernie Jr had already his own brand by that time, unless he was involved while having his own brand, which is something I do not know.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

777timesgod said:


> I do remember the Custom shop models not having a "Made in USA" title below the logo some years ago and this prompted many to say that they were made in Mexico. Bernie Jr had already his own brand by that time, unless he was involved while having his own brand, which is something I do not know.



They subcontracted Jr. to build some BCR guitars.


----------



## twguitar

MaxOfMetal said:


> They subcontracted Jr. to build some BCR guitars.


Yes as part of their 'Master Builder' series. Grover Jackson did those 'gunslingers' and Bernie did a few. Ive got one of those Mockingbirds and it is incredible. Neal Moser did some work on it for me so its like the old ones, carved by the Mexicans for a Rico then Neal doing set up.


----------



## 777timesgod

twguitar said:


> View attachment 68114
> 
> Yes as part of their 'Master Builder' series. Grover Jackson did those 'gunslingers' and Bernie did a few. Ive got one of those Mockingbirds and it is incredible. Neal Moser did some work on it for me so its like the old ones, carved by the Mexicans for a Rico then Neal doing set up.



I recognised the Neal Table beneath the guitar immediately. He is always a master in his craft. 
I assume that the work had to do with the electronics?


----------



## exo

Mathemagician said:


> Anyone is welcome in the “wistful BCR club”. Even those who are wrong and probably enjoy raisin cookies too.




I am wistful about a very specific BCR that has never existed.


----------



## 777timesgod

**Urgent help needed from BC Rich buffs!!!**
I am in negotiations to buy an old Custom shop BC Rich from the 80s. Anyone here remember Pete Blakk from King Diamond, a guy is selling his "Sneaky" Gunslinger and we are talking. I will examine the guitar with a luthier I trust (it has a lot of dings and paint cracks on a first glance, which is natural for tour gear). It looks to be the real deal, as it matched the photos of Pete with it to the smallest detail and looks old enough to match the era it was build in and not be a copy of later times. Please, let me have your thoughts/help on the guitar, if you have any information or want to drop your 2 cents.
Here are the pictures send to me by the seller, he has been trying to sell it for quite a while which worries me but then again BC Rich is not popular this side of Europe as I see many models going for dirt cheap or being for sale indefinitely with little interest.


----------



## 777timesgod

Some more pics, looking forward to some wisdom from you guys.


----------



## canuck brian

777timesgod said:


> Some more pics, looking forward to some wisdom from you guys.



Looks like it's taken a shot or two against that headstock.


----------



## spudmunkey

canuck brian said:


> Looks like it's taken a shot or two against that headstock.



True, but that paint is likely less flexible/elastic than the wood under it. It could very well still be A-OK, structurally.


----------



## 777timesgod

canuck brian said:


> Looks like it's taken a shot or two against that headstock.





spudmunkey said:


> True, but that paint is likely less flexible/elastic than the wood under it. It could very well still be A-OK, structurally.



Indeed, the guitar is worn but I cannot see something which is a deal-breaker yet. I am very sceptical though and worry that during the examination something nasty will pop up. The owner claims that the guitar does not have any repairs of serious issues but was not serviced for a long time until he did so this year. This week it will be checked by a luthier of my choice and I will assess the situation from there.

Anyone to comment if its an original one? No serial number but then again it was a custom order for an endorser during the 80s, so it is not odd. Looks identical to the pics of Pete and I am wondering why go to the trouble of copying it to such a degree, when you can do that with a Gibson Les Paul of a Fender strat and sell them quick to someone who does not have the knowledge to distinguish.


----------



## canuck brian

777timesgod said:


> Anyone to comment if its an original one? No serial number but then again it was a custom order for an endorser during the 80s, so it is not odd. Looks identical to the pics of Pete and I am wondering why go to the trouble of copying it to such a degree, when you can do that with a Gibson Les Paul of a Fender strat and sell them quick to someone who does not have the knowledge to distinguish.



I could be completely talking out my ass, but if it's one of the custom ones that was started in Mexico and brought up to the States for finishing (asstalking part), I think I remember some BC Rich people saying some didn't have serials.

I've seen guitars with far more severe cracks that still held their tune. That thing is probably just a beat up road warrior with a lot of personality. If the white seal under the paint isn't cracked, you're probably good to go. The neck thru looks pretty solid too. I've seen some older BC Rich's with the seam showing.


----------



## twguitar

BC Rich endorsee guitars very rarely have serial numbers, especially in this era. Those Floyd nuts are a stupid design, why would anyone want two holes in the most fragile part of the guitar but I agree it just looks like finish cracking rather than anything more. 
Seems to match up to me, only way to confirm would be asking the original artist (He's on FB, I have mutual friends). I say go for it as long as its a sensible price!


----------



## 777timesgod

canuck brian said:


> I could be completely talking out my ass, but if it's one of the custom ones that was started in Mexico and brought up to the States for finishing (asstalking part), I think I remember some BC Rich people saying some didn't have serials.
> 
> I've seen guitars with far more severe cracks that still held their tune. That thing is probably just a beat up road warrior with a lot of personality. If the white seal under the paint isn't cracked, you're probably good to go. The neck thru looks pretty solid too. I've seen some older BC Rich's with the seam showing.



Indeed, Mexico was always a source for BC Rich, whether we are talking body blanks or luthiers. I remember a video of Mal Stich (who worked there in the early days) that many luthiers were ”wetbacks”, which as I googled is a slur for illegal Mexican immigrants who crossed the Rio Grande river to get to the states. 
We know in this forum that the body blanks from Mexico practise continued with Bernie Jr. I suspect that BC Rich did this also, which is why the ”Made in USA” logo was not on many CS models during the early 2010s. 
I did hear good things about the body blanks being made there. It is shame that more casual players do not appreciate guitars being build by luthiers outside the states, we have seen some great stuff coming from elsewhere and some stinkers from the states, as well as vice-versa. The internet exposure seems to be rectifying this to a degree, which is a positive thing.
I am in contact with the luthier/technician who serviced it. Lets see what he has to say about it.



twguitar said:


> BC Rich endorsee guitars very rarely have serial numbers, especially in this era. Those Floyd nuts are a stupid design, why would anyone want two holes in the most fragile part of the guitar but I agree it just looks like finish cracking rather than anything more.
> Seems to match up to me, only way to confirm would be asking the original artist (He's on FB, I have mutual friends). I say go for it as long as its a sensible price!



I was checking a Brian Hoffman CS Beast (NT, kahlered with 22 frets and a big distance between the neck and bridge humbuckers). I do not remember seeing a serial for that but I could be wrong.
Totally agree about the Floyd nuts behind the neck, fortunately they seem to be taking the road to extinction in our time. I always wince when I see them on a guitar.

Thank you both for your output, if I move forward at the end, there will be an NGD thread (this would delay my purchase of a new 7 unfortunately).


----------



## vilk




----------



## canuck brian

777timesgod said:


> We know in this forum that the body blanks from Mexico practise continued with Bernie Jr. I suspect that BC Rich did this also, which is why the ”Made in USA” logo was not on many CS models during the early 2010s.
> I did hear good things about the body blanks being made there. It is shame that more casual players do not appreciate guitars being build by luthiers outside the states, we have seen some great stuff coming from elsewhere and some stinkers from the states, as well as vice-versa. The internet exposure seems to be rectifying this to a degree, which is a positive thing.
> I am in contact with the luthier/technician who serviced it. Lets see what he has to say about it.



I've got a BRJ at my place right now from the Black Friday sale that I'm completing for Holloway. The work is not really up to snuff from a lot of the other BRJ guitars I've seen. I've managed to clean up 99% of hte issues, but there are some choices that were made that just boggle me. :/ Just be wary.

When i start doing customer builds again, i was planning to brand "Built In Canada" on the back.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

canuck brian said:


> When i start doing customer builds again, i was planning to brand "Built In Canada" on the back.



I remember when builders used to put all kinds of information on their guitars. Stuff like specs, when it was made, who commissioned it, who worked on it, any pet names for the instrument, where it was made, etc. It was kind of a cool, personal touch. I'm sure most builders would do it if asked, it just used to be the default. 

I know some old school shops still do it, like Spector, Conklin, and Alembic.


----------



## canuck brian

MaxOfMetal said:


> I remember when builders used to put all kinds of information on their guitars. Stuff like specs, when it was made, who commissioned it, who worked on it, any pet names for the instrument, where it was made, etc. It was kind of a cool, personal touch. I'm sure most builders would do it if asked, it just used to be the default.
> 
> I know some old school shops still do it, like Spector, Conklin, and Alembic.



When a customer and I agree on doing a project together, I arrange for a Skype session while I'm walking around one of the biggest wood suppliers in North America. That way even if i happen to pass something that catches someone's eye, they have the chance to ask about it or just ask for it to be on their guitar. I had a guy completely change the woods used in his build just because I showed him what burled amboyna looks like in person. I love putting up the build stories on Facebook. Gotta keep in the fun and excitement in there otherwise it becomes a job. 

I did deliver a guitar after 4 years and 5 attempts (every attempt failed I offered a refund but he insisted I build it). After the second attempt, the build was actually referred to as my nemesis. I check in on it from time to time but the owner is still loving it as his #1. At the end of it, I made a lifetime friend because of the whole rollercoaster ride together.


----------



## 777timesgod

canuck brian said:


> I've got a BRJ at my place right now from the Black Friday sale that I'm completing for Holloway. The work is not really up to snuff from a lot of the other BRJ guitars I've seen. I've managed to clean up 99% of hte issues, but there are some choices that were made that just boggle me. :/ Just be wary.
> 
> When i start doing customer builds again, i was planning to brand "Built In Canada" on the back.



Well, during the later stage of BRJ's situation, there was massive pressure to complete guitars. Perhaps it was transmitted from Bernie to the Mexican luthiers, I do not know if anyone found out who they are actually. 
Saw a CS Jr. V on reverb the other day build by Bernie in 2010 if I am not mistaken and it did not have a "Made in the USA" on the headstock. Perhaps he used the same guys for the commissioned pieces.

You do not have to put "Build in Canada" on the back, 3 words is overkill. Just write "Sorry" and people will know.


----------



## twguitar

All the BRJ, BCR guitars under Sr & Jr in the 90s/2000s were made by the Pasaye family in TJ. They were involved with the BCR South shop in the 'Golden Era' too. All carved by hand with knives, proper old school, I would much prefer that than a CNC! 

History copied from the Pasaye page about Jorge the head luthier:
1974.- At this year, Jorge moves to Los Angeles to work with a company by the name of "BERNARDOS GUITAR SHOP", where he started to work on Classical and Flamenco Guitars.
1976.- Jorge Pasaye worked at " BERNARDOS GUITAR SHOP" whom will later be the well known "B.C. Rich" company, where he witnessed the creation of the very first "B.C. Rich" electric guitar.
1977.-In this Year "Bernardos Guitar Shop" changed name to "B.C. Rich" and Jorge worked for them, crafting Country Guitars.
1985.- By this date the company suffers a lot of changes and Jorge with a partner is asigned to the Custom Made department. Here jorge stayed for a long time getting a lot of experience on Acoustic Guitars and Electric Guitars.
1993.- In his year Jorge decides to return to his country and starts working on his own business, he started creating Bajosextos

You can see some of their work here. 
https://www.facebook.com/pasayeguitars/

A photo that did the rounds of the TJ workshop, notice the mix of BRJ & BCR. A few of these 'blanks' have appeared on eBay by one fo the family Enrique under the seller name 'BassRamon' as old stock but lets be honest they're just making a couple every now and then. You've got to be so careful with fakes.


----------



## twguitar

^^^^^ And if BCR were smart they would hire these guys again to do a similar set up to the old U-series. Cores built elsewhere then finished up in the states, limited options at a sensible price and it would be amazing.


----------



## canuck brian

777timesgod said:


> Well, during the later stage of BRJ's situation, there was massive pressure to complete guitars. Perhaps it was transmitted from Bernie to the Mexican luthiers, I do not know if anyone found out who they are actually.
> Saw a CS Jr. V on reverb the other day build by Bernie in 2010 if I am not mistaken and it did not have a "Made in the USA" on the headstock. Perhaps he used the same guys for the commissioned pieces.
> 
> You do not have to put "Build in Canada" on the back, 3 words is overkill. Just write "Sorry" and people will know.



There was only massive pressure because the guy took over 1000% (not a typo) more orders than he said he would and promptly blew the cash. He ran out of money and lost the shop. Thats pretty much it.  MOst of Bernie's stuff was made out of Mexico and shipped up his place for finish/assembly. 

I found this really cool place that sells pen mosiac inserts - they had a copper moose that i was also considering 



> All the BRJ, BCR guitars under Sr & Jr in the 90s/2000s were made by the Pasaye family in TJ. They were involved with the BCR South shop in the 'Golden Era' too. All carved by hand with knives, proper old school, I would much prefer that than a CNC!



If they carved the BRJ at my place, then they need to really get better at what they do. I've already spent 10 hours cleaning up their mess and the work was sub-par at best. The truss rod route looks like someone did it with a dremel. There's a shim under the fretboard to create an angle. The side dots were actually painted on. The pickup cavities are so small that no pickup actually fits in it them without convincing. The headstock is multiple small pieces glued at bizarre angles and the tuners are dangerously close to the edge. Handbuilt doesn't mean it's better. It just means it was built without machine precision. Every awesome luthier I've talked to ends up using a CNC at some point.









Why would you prefer fallable humans with chisels to make your guitar instead of a machine with precision down to thousandths of an inch?


----------



## PlayingDead

Have you see what they are going to be asking for the 2019 usa models? $6500 and nobody even knows who owns the company now or who is building them. Not a good look when you're in the 2nd quarter of the year and that same years models haven't dropped yet!


----------



## twguitar

canuck brian said:


> There was only massive pressure because the guy took over 1000% (not a typo) more orders than he said he would and promptly blew the cash. He ran out of money and lost the shop. Thats pretty much it.  MOst of Bernie's stuff was made out of Mexico and shipped up his place for finish/assembly.
> 
> I found this really cool place that sells pen mosiac inserts - they had a copper moose that i was also considering
> 
> 
> 
> If they carved the BRJ at my place, then they need to really get better at what they do. I've already spent 10 hours cleaning up their mess and the work was sub-par at best. The truss rod route looks like someone did it with a dremel. There's a shim under the fretboard to create an angle. The side dots were actually painted on. The pickup cavities are so small that no pickup actually fits in it them without convincing. The headstock is multiple small pieces glued at bizarre angles and the tuners are dangerously close to the edge. Handbuilt doesn't mean it's better. It just means it was built without machine precision. Every awesome luthier I've talked to ends up using a CNC at some point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you prefer fallable humans with chisels to make your guitar instead of a machine with precision down to thousandths of an inch?



Yeah towards the end they are a mess, that’s what happens when you ask a shop that can do 10 guitars a month to do 200 a month because of that stupid sale. I’ve been told the guys in the wood shop weren’t getting paid on time either as it all fell apart. The shim under the fretboard isn’t unusual, it’s how BCR always built NTs. 

I’m not saying CNC isn’t as good, I work with CAD/CAM 24/7 and swear by it but part of the magic with Rico guitars has always been the subtle handmade carves that vary from guitar to guitar.


----------



## twguitar

PlayingDead said:


> Have you see what they are going to be asking for the 2019 usa models? $6500 and nobody even knows who owns the company now or who is building them. Not a good look when you're in the 2nd quarter of the year and that same years models haven't dropped yet!


 
They’ll never sell any. You can work out who built them if you search around, top builder but the pricing is silly on a ‘stock build’ I won’t be getting one at that price. 
Imports are coming though and looks like a return to WMI Korea


----------



## stevexc

canuck brian said:


> Why would you prefer fallable humans with chisels to make your guitar instead of a machine with precision down to thousandths of an inch?



But but but Zachary Guitars says hand-built toan is better toan! /s


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

canuck brian said:


> Why would you prefer fallable humans with chisels to make your guitar instead of a machine with precision down to thousandths of an inch?



Something something soulless something something computers.


----------



## PlayingDead

twguitar said:


> They’ll never sell any. You can work out who built them if you search around, top builder but the pricing is silly on a ‘stock build’ I won’t be getting one at that price.
> Imports are coming though and looks like a return to WMI Korea



Who is the builder? I can't find any info on who it is, but I also agree anything over 3k for a "shelf model" will not sell. Period. BCR values are in the tank


----------



## spudmunkey

Are those "List" prices? And if "list" prices, are they like normal "MSRP" prices, or are they doing something like Carvin/Kiesel where the imaginary "list" price is double, so that a) they appear higher-end, and b) make it look like a deal when you get it for so much less?  They might need the attention both of those aspects could get them if they did list for $6500 but street was $3.5K.


----------



## twguitar

spudmunkey said:


> Are those "List" prices? And if "list" prices, are they like normal "MSRP" prices, or are they doing something like Carvin/Kiesel where the imaginary "list" price is double, so that a) they appear higher-end, and b) make it look like a deal when you get it for so much less?  They might need the attention both of those aspects could get them if they did list for $6500 but street was $3.5K.



List is $8500


----------



## spudmunkey

Oh...ha! Nevermind then.


----------



## possumkiller

canuck brian said:


> There was only massive pressure because the guy took over 1000% (not a typo) more orders than he said he would and promptly blew the cash. He ran out of money and lost the shop. Thats pretty much it.  MOst of Bernie's stuff was made out of Mexico and shipped up his place for finish/assembly.
> 
> I found this really cool place that sells pen mosiac inserts - they had a copper moose that i was also considering
> 
> 
> 
> If they carved the BRJ at my place, then they need to really get better at what they do. I've already spent 10 hours cleaning up their mess and the work was sub-par at best. The truss rod route looks like someone did it with a dremel. There's a shim under the fretboard to create an angle. The side dots were actually painted on. The pickup cavities are so small that no pickup actually fits in it them without convincing. The headstock is multiple small pieces glued at bizarre angles and the tuners are dangerously close to the edge. Handbuilt doesn't mean it's better. It just means it was built without machine precision. Every awesome luthier I've talked to ends up using a CNC at some point.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why would you prefer fallable humans with chisels to make your guitar instead of a machine with precision down to thousandths of an inch?


That looks like a bad Chinese fake.


----------



## canuck brian

possumkiller said:


> That looks like a bad Chinese fake.



I'd say the same too if it wasn't literally retrieved from Bernie's home with it's matching Rico case.


----------



## Legion

I'm surprised this thread isn't officially dead yet lmao


----------



## possumkiller

canuck brian said:


> I'd say the same too if it wasn't literally retrieved from Bernie's home with it's matching Rico case.


Yeah that's the sad part. Someone actually paid USA custom handmade money for that when they could've got the same thing for $200 on AliExpress.


----------



## jonsick

I just wonder if they're going a slightly wrong way with this. It sounds like they're hitting up some custom shop instruments first before looking at the import market. I was always under the impression that revenue generated from import series guitars greatly supported custom shop endeavours to a point? Hence I'm guessing that's why the $6500-8500 price tags. 

Personally I thought the golden age of BCR was their Bronze, platinium and NJ series with later expansions into the Japanese made (I have one!) and neckthru guitars. 

Overall the two specs I'd like to see are 24 5/8" scale lengths and definitely more options than all-mahogany (not a fan of mahog guitars, too dark for me).


----------



## Viginez

some guy posted some pics on another forum






new retro ironbird and it's meeeeeeeaannnnnn
with the R logo, i wonder if this is a custom?


----------



## Rosal76

Viginez said:


> some guy posted some pics on another forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new retro ironbird and it's meeeeeeeaannnnnn
> with the R logo, i wonder if this is a custom?



It is indeed, a U.S. custom shop model. A lot of B.C. Rich fans were wanting to see a MK1 model and I guess, B.C. Rich built it to show that they could.

Some of the other more recent U.S. custom shop models built for other customers that I think are pretty cool looking. These are all from the B.C. Rich U.S. custom shop Facebook page.






These 2 were built for 1 customer. Whoever he is, he must have some deep pockets. LOL.


----------



## zappatton2

I'm getting a feeling the only way I'm ever gonna get my hands on a new custom ever again is going to involve winning the lottery. Guess I better start playing.


----------



## Viginez

Rosal76 said:


> It is indeed, a U.S. custom shop model.


i asked because there was a production warlock with the R logo and maybe others too?
maybe that ironbird could be one of those too? usually full customs have kahlers on, like those you posted.
one can only hope...


----------



## Spicypickles

I like the poster, held up with shitty painters tape


----------



## 777timesgod

PlayingDead said:


> Who is the builder? I can't find any info on who it is, but I also agree anything over 3k for a "shelf model" will not sell. Period. BCR values are in the tank



Ron Estrada builds them apparently, I do not know if he outsources the bodies. Neal Moser provides for the circuits, according to the official custom shop website that is.



Viginez said:


> i asked because there was a production warlock with the R logo and maybe others too?
> maybe that ironbird could be one of those too? usually full customs have kahlers on, like those you posted.
> one can only hope...



Many BC Riches have the R logo, while they are not customs, especially in the last couple of years. Steve Smyth (ex-Nevermore guitarist) had a signature guitar with an R logo as did the golden warlock that they released.

In hindsight, having a single letter logo for your best guitars is not a good idea. I remember not knowing as a kid what guitar Slash used for the "You could be mine" song. I used to say "that red one" but I knew Gibson and Fender, despite not playing guitar back then. Same with my Moser, people keep asking me what brand it is, because it has only an M logo on the headstock. Maybe BC Rich should copy Jackson and have its scripted logo plus "Custom shop" or "Made in the USA" on it, even if this angers the older fanbase.


----------



## twguitar

777timesgod said:


> Ron Estrada builds them apparently, I do not know if he outsources the bodies. Neal Moser provides for the circuits, according to the official custom shop website that is.
> 
> 
> 
> Many BC Riches have the R logo, while they are not customs, especially in the last couple of years. Steve Smyth (ex-Nevermore guitarist) had a signature guitar with an R logo as did the golden warlock that they released.
> 
> In hindsight, having a single letter logo for your best guitars is not a good idea. I remember not knowing as a kid what guitar Slash used for the "You could be mine" song. I used to say "that red one" but I knew Gibson and Fender, despite not playing guitar back then. Same with my Moser, people keep asking me what brand it is, because it has only an M logo on the headstock. Maybe BC Rich should copy Jackson and have its scripted logo plus "Custom shop" or "Made in the USA" on it, even if this angers the older fanbase.



Yeah Ron is still the 'Custom Shop' all the work is in house asides from the paint which is done by Dan Lawrence and Neal Moser provides circuits if people want. 
These 50th anniversary builds that are being promoted are CNC built but Im not sure if they'll announce who is building them....


----------



## zappatton2

I thought that I had read somewhere that BCR was focusing on lowering the cost of custom guitars by cutting out dealers and streamlining the whole thing, guess I read wrong? Really wish I hadn't sold mine, that's a regret I'll carry for a while (including selling a double-neck Moser custom I never even got a chance to see in person). Damn being poor!


----------



## twguitar

zappatton2 said:


> I thought that I had read somewhere that BCR was focusing on lowering the cost of custom guitars by cutting out dealers and streamlining the whole thing, guess I read wrong? Really wish I hadn't sold mine, that's a regret I'll carry for a while (including selling a double-neck Moser custom I never even got a chance to see in person). Damn being poor!



Yeah that was what happened but it seems these new owners want to go back to dealers.

A friend of mine now has that double neck Moser and it looks insane!


----------



## zappatton2

twguitar said:


> Yeah that was what happened but it seems these new owners want to go back to dealers.
> 
> A friend of mine now has that double neck Moser and it looks insane!


I am glad it has a good home!


----------



## wedge_destroyer

777timesgod said:


> In hindsight, having a single letter logo for your best guitars is not a good idea. .
> ......
> Maybe BC Rich should copy Jackson and have its scripted logo plus "Custom shop" or "Made in the USA" on it, even if this angers the older fanbase.



Blasphemer!!!!

I jest but if I ever swing for a custom it better have that bigass R on it.


----------



## zappatton2

Viginez said:


> some guy posted some pics on another forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new retro ironbird and it's meeeeeeeaannnnnn
> with the R logo, i wonder if this is a custom?


Does anyone know what the four inline switches are? I remember this on a lot of the classic Stealths and often thought they might be on/off switches for each coil (but really, I haven't a clue).


----------



## Erik Myers

zappatton2 said:


> Does anyone know what the four inline switches are? I remember this on a lot of the classic Stealths and often thought they might be on/off switches for each coil (but really, I haven't a clue).


I believe it’s neck on/off, bridge on/off, bridge coil split, preamp on/off


----------



## Erik Myers

wedge_destroyer said:


> Blasphemer!!!!
> 
> I jest but if I ever swing for a custom it better have that bigass R on it.


If you spring for a custom, you can have any of they’re trademarked logos you want. That’s part of getting it “custom.”. 

From what I’ve seen recently, the Custom Shop is very accommodating - and also a fair bit cheaper than most other custom shops. Ron is a hard working guy and builds a good guitar. I think current build time is out around 9 months, which is also good. Everything coming out of the shop is top quality, based on what everyone who has ordered and received their guitars has said. 

There is a lot of pressure on Ron from the diehard fans to do what he can to steer things back to the direction of the “golden era” of BC Rich, at least as far as the Custom Shop is concerned. These are the guys who keep him in business, and he seems to be trying to deliver, from what I’ve seen, but he has the new ownership and whatever it is they think they are doing (so far, their only offering seems to be disappointment) to deal with too - and he gets to be the face that everyone who is unhappy about the current state of affairs, recognizes. 

Other than that, there is nothing to know. Those who do know what is going on are sworn to secrecy for reasons unknown. The handful of people who are “in the loop” have alluded that the import line will be revived, but I have yet to see anyone who is actually still connected to BCR make a statement to that effect. 

Meanwhile, the prices on everything BCR - from Custom Shop to Class Axe junk continue to rise. My advice? Either order what you want from Ron, grab that good deal on a true vintage axe the moment you see one, or wait out the storm.


----------



## twguitar

Erik Myers said:


> If you spring for a custom, you can have any of they’re trademarked logos you want. That’s part of getting it “custom.”.
> 
> From what I’ve seen recently, the Custom Shop is very accommodating - and also a fair bit cheaper than most other custom shops. Ron is a hard working guy and builds a good guitar. I think current build time is out around 9 months, which is also good. Everything coming out of the shop is top quality, based on what everyone who has ordered and received their guitars has said.
> 
> There is a lot of pressure on Ron from the diehard fans to do what he can to steer things back to the direction of the “golden era” of BC Rich, at least as far as the Custom Shop is concerned. These are the guys who keep him in business, and he seems to be trying to deliver, from what I’ve seen, but he has the new ownership and whatever it is they think they are doing (so far, their only offering seems to be disappointment) to deal with too - and he gets to be the face that everyone who is unhappy about the current state of affairs, recognizes.
> 
> Other than that, there is nothing to know. Those who do know what is going on are sworn to secrecy for reasons unknown. The handful of people who are “in the loop” have alluded that the import line will be revived, but I have yet to see anyone who is actually still connected to BCR make a statement to that effect.
> 
> Meanwhile, the prices on everything BCR - from Custom Shop to Class Axe junk continue to rise. My advice? Either order what you want from Ron, grab that good deal on a true vintage axe the moment you see one, or wait out the storm.


The import line is coming, posts have been made showing them in what appears to be WMI Korea but be assured they are coming. 

Have to agree Ron is killing it in the CS and it’s great to see people getting their dream BCRs built at sensible prices


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Erik Myers said:


> If you spring for a custom, you can have any of they’re trademarked logos you want. That’s part of getting it “custom.”.
> 
> From what I’ve seen recently, the Custom Shop is very accommodating - and also a fair bit cheaper than most other custom shops. Ron is a hard working guy and builds a good guitar. I think current build time is out around 9 months, which is also good. Everything coming out of the shop is top quality, based on what everyone who has ordered and received their guitars has said.
> 
> There is a lot of pressure on Ron from the diehard fans to do what he can to steer things back to the direction of the “golden era” of BC Rich, at least as far as the Custom Shop is concerned. These are the guys who keep him in business, and he seems to be trying to deliver, from what I’ve seen, but he has the new ownership and whatever it is they think they are doing (so far, their only offering seems to be disappointment) to deal with too - and he gets to be the face that everyone who is unhappy about the current state of affairs, recognizes.
> 
> Other than that, there is nothing to know. Those who do know what is going on are sworn to secrecy for reasons unknown. The handful of people who are “in the loop” have alluded that the import line will be revived, but I have yet to see anyone who is actually still connected to BCR make a statement to that effect.
> 
> Meanwhile, the prices on everything BCR - from Custom Shop to Class Axe junk continue to rise. My advice? Either order what you want from Ron, grab that good deal on a true vintage axe the moment you see one, or wait out the storm.



Indeed you are correct I could have them inlay the script logo or whatever other crap.

That's not a horrible wait time really given a small shop with a well known brand name.

I hope it turns out well in all regards and would love to see some old school inspired imports.

Well on pricing I sit on my handful of kahlered NJs and dream of a stealth while saving pennies away.


----------



## twguitar

wedge_destroyer said:


> Indeed you are correct I could have them inlay the script logo or whatever other crap.
> 
> That's not a horrible wait time really given a small shop with a well known brand name.
> 
> I hope it turns out well in all regards and would love to see some old school inspired imports.
> 
> Well on pricing I sit on my handful of kahlered NJs and dream of a stealth while saving pennies away.



Joking aside I’ve only seen the script logo inlayed once.... and I own it


----------



## Rosal76

Erik Myers said:


> The handful of people who are “in the loop” have alluded that the import line will be revived, but I have yet to see anyone who is actually still connected to BCR make a statement to that effect.



Cryptic message but still kinda cool news... B.C. Rich announced on their B.C. Rich products Facebook page (7 weeks ago) that they are going to release, "2 new Stealths". Guitars? Bass? Imports? Custom shop models? People were asking questions about it but B.C. Rich never answered. Guess we have to play the waiting game.


----------



## possumkiller

I'm still waiting for the Jon Schaffer sig Ignitor and Warlock. An Ihsahn Bich and Samoth Ironbird would be awesome too.


----------



## 777timesgod

twguitar said:


> These 50th anniversary builds that are being promoted are CNC built but Im not sure if they'll announce who is building them....



Is there a reason for that, why all the secrecy from the company?



possumkiller said:


> I'm still waiting for the Jon Schaffer sig Ignitor and Warlock. An Ihsahn Bich and Samoth Ironbird would be awesome too.



That would be cool but it may be wishful thinking at this stage. Lets just get some imports that are not lemons and see where they go from there.


----------



## twguitar

777timesgod said:


> Is there a reason for that, why all the secrecy from the company?



I know they're waiting to announce things a;; at once but this keeps getting pushed back, its frustrating but equally glad they're not rushing things. BCR historically haven't always been that open about who's building and it appears we're returning a similar set up as the Hanser days from the photos that have been posted.


----------



## Merrekof

Wow, I've been skimming through pages of posts. I didn't realize there was so much hate towards BC Rich. Not that it is uncalled for. 
I used to be a huge fan, back when 15 year old me started playing guitar. I loved those shapes, the wave, warlock, mockingbird, beast, bich,.. 

I did buy an NJ deluxe Warbeast when they were released and I bought a second hand NJ beast bass. They were/are both pretty decent guitars IMO. I sold the beast because I started playing 5-string bass. 
Got over the BC Rich fandom now bc I'm 30 years old so I'd rather play a more conventional shaped guitar these days. 

About the Chinese factories. Does anyone know about the Dingwall NG and Combustion line? Instruments that are built in China and set up in the Canadian custom shop. These are awesome instruments. You can buy a Dingwall bass for under 2k instead of 3k+$.
This works well for Dingwall. I don't know how this will work out for BCRich because they don't really have a reputation of delivering quality made instruments ofcourse.


----------



## Cynicanal

Merrekof said:


> Got over the BC Rich fandom now bc I'm 30 years old so I'd rather play a more conventional shaped guitar these days.


Bah, I'm 32 (almost 33) and I still like pointy guitars. I'm only just over a year removed from the purchase of my Beast!

You don't stop liking cool things because you get old; you get old because you stop liking cool things.


----------



## zappatton2

Cynicanal said:


> Bah, I'm 32 (almost 33) and I still like pointy guitars. I'm only just over a year removed from the purchase of my Beast!
> 
> You don't stop liking cool things because you get old; you get old because you stop liking cool things.


Haha, each to their own on the guitar front I suppose, but I gotta agree at still loving the pointy, unconventional shapes, and I've got 10 years on you!! I always used to say, superstrats are quite literally pointless


----------



## Merrekof

Yeah okay ypu got me there. 

Actually the thing that got me off BCR was the lack of specs. They're players are mostly metal players. 7 and 8 strings are big in that area. And why not jump on new stuff like multiscale? If BCR made, for example, a 7 string mockingbird or igniter with an evertune, with decent build quality, they would've made more sense imo. Or why don't they make ironbirds anymore? At this point I'd rather have good specs than good looks. And for me Ibanez delivers, ESP delivers.. Haven't tried Solar but I'm really gassing for one of those.


----------



## 777timesgod

Merrekof said:


> Yeah okay ypu got me there.
> 
> Actually the thing that got me off BCR was the lack of specs. They're players are mostly metal players. 7 and 8 strings are big in that area. And why not jump on new stuff like multiscale? If BCR made, for example, a 7 string mockingbird or igniter with an evertune, with decent build quality, they would've made more sense imo. Or why don't they make ironbirds anymore? At this point I'd rather have good specs than good looks. And for me Ibanez delivers, ESP delivers.. Haven't tried Solar but I'm really gassing for one of those.



It maybe a bit late right now, multiscale is mainly strat or strandberg-type based, not many choices though so there is an opening. The company released 7 and 8 strings but I would not describe them as first line choices, the Lucky 7/8 was not bad apparently and the 7 string V with the maple top and the V inlays (I do not remember its name) that I was given by a guy I know to play was very good.

Pointy shapes have their place as they fit different bodies and playing styles, it is silly for the guitarist community to imply that pointy shape means that you cannot play or that strat/Les Paul means that you are a serious player who has a great rig. Many who use conventional shapes are copying a celebrity or simply feel peer pressure on using them, the same can apply to pointy ones.

Ibanez and LTD are build by other factories, if BC Rich gets its act together it can do the same of course.

My guess for a new signature is the Dimebag Darrel signature model! No chance in hell but see below what I found to pass time:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/505951339370307851/


----------



## Merrekof

I don't care if you like pointy shapes or not, it does'nt make you any less of a guitarist imo. Have you seen Gorgoroth on the Wacken mainstage in 2008? Tormentor actually has a BC Rich platinum Warlock. That's right! You headline on the mainstage of one of the biggest metalfestivals of the world and what guitar do you bring? "I'll just take my cheap ass warlock!" 

Does anyone remember the BC Rich speedloader series from 10 years ago? Pic below. The floyd rose speedloader was a trem that used special strings with bullets on both sides with a pre-fixed lenght. That way you could easily replace a string in 10 seconds and it's in tune. Not even joking about 10 seconds! I knew a buddy from school who had a Warlock speedloader. He quit guitar and wanted to sell his guitar. And I was interested, holy crap that guitar looked so cool. A BCR signature headstock without the tuning pegs. I thought about buying it but the speedloader system turned me off. The biggest issue was availability of the strings and downtuning. If I remember correctly, the only brand that made these special strings was Dean Markley and they were very hard to come by here in Belgium. 
IF BCR didn't use the speedloader but used steinberger hardware for example..I probably would've bought the guitar. This is one of those times a brand tries something new but it just doesn't work out. 






Isn't this the sleekiest Ironbird you have ever seen? 





Back about that Chinese BC Riches. If they do it the way Dingwall does, you can get a 1000€ guitar that can easily outperform many other guitars with the same or a higher pricetag. I don't know, I haven't tried these new BC Riches.


----------



## Rosal76

Merrekof said:


> This is one of those times a brand tries something new but it just doesn't work out.



+1.

It's not the first time B.C. Rich tried something new and it didn't catch on. B.C. Rich built headless Stealth bass guitars in the 1980's but I don't believe they caught on back then. But now, they (headless guitars/basses) are quite popular among some people.





Megadeth bassist, Dave Ellefson, used a headless, B.C. Rich Stealth bass at one point in the 1980's.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Rosal76 said:


> +1.
> 
> It's not the first time B.C. Rich tried something new and it didn't catch on. B.C. Rich built headless Stealth bass guitars in the 1980's but I don't believe they caught on back then. But now, they (headless guitars/basses) are quite popular among some people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Megadeth bassist, Dave Ellefson, used a headless, B.C. Rich Stealth bass at one point in the 1980's.


Oh jeez, is that the guy who filled in for Poland on the KIMB tour?


----------



## watson503

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Oh jeez, is that the guy who filled in for Poland on the KIMB tour?


Hahaha
Yeah, that's Mike "Trucker Hat" Albert


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

watson503 said:


> Hahaha
> Yeah, that's Mike "Trucker Hat" Albert


Surprised he can play guitar with all of that wallet fumbling attempting to look for his black belt card.


----------



## twguitar

Quick update on BC Rich 'being alive'

Samples of the new import models being built in World Music Korea are on their way to Ron Estrada in the Custom Shop to be checked over and ensure they meet standards, and most importantly finally have the correct shape!

Things are starting to get moving!


----------



## broj15

Merrekof said:


> I don't care if you like pointy shapes or not, it does'nt make you any less of a guitarist imo. Have you seen Gorgoroth on the Wacken mainstage in 2008? Tormentor actually has a BC Rich platinum Warlock. That's right! You headline on the mainstage of one of the biggest metalfestivals of the world and what guitar do you bring? "I'll just take my cheap ass warlock!"
> 
> Does anyone remember the BC Rich speedloader series from 10 years ago? Pic below. The floyd rose speedloader was a trem that used special strings with bullets on both sides with a pre-fixed lenght. That way you could easily replace a string in 10 seconds and it's in tune. Not even joking about 10 seconds! I knew a buddy from school who had a Warlock speedloader. He quit guitar and wanted to sell his guitar. And I was interested, holy crap that guitar looked so cool. A BCR signature headstock without the tuning pegs. I thought about buying it but the speedloader system turned me off. The biggest issue was availability of the strings and downtuning. If I remember correctly, the only brand that made these special strings was Dean Markley and they were very hard to come by here in Belgium.
> IF BCR didn't use the speedloader but used steinberger hardware for example..I probably would've bought the guitar. This is one of those times a brand tries something new but it just doesn't work out.



There was a beast with the speedloader trem for sale at a local shop a few months ago, and it played great for an import guitar, but like you said, the availability of the strings & lack of guages suitable for down tuning ultimately made me decide against it.


----------



## 777timesgod

The whole speedloader thing was a debacle for B.C. Rich and showed how out of touch they were with touring musicians and bands. I am surprised that no one raised their hands during the meeting of placing this bridge on the flagship model (NJ) at the time with most stores NOT offering the strings to play it. Only a handful made it to my country and I asked the dealer if he offered strings for this weird bridge. He only had a handful of packs, with no intent to bring more...
Then again the cheapest model of that time (Bronze) shared the same humbucker as the flagship models (NJ) in the form of the BDSM pickup. Which extends the feeling of cheapness to the more expensive models. Full disclosure, I appreciate the pickup in some form as heard on Dark Funeral and Bolt Thrower gigs.
If anyone wants the Speedloader guitars they need to add tuners and a new nut (additional expenses), a poster in another thread has a Mock which is being mod at this point. Check it for opinions.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

777timesgod said:


> The whole speedloader thing was a debacle for B.C. Rich and showed how out of touch they were with touring musicians and bands. I am surprised that no one raised their hands during the meeting of placing this bridge on the flagship model (NJ) at the time with most stores NOT offering the strings to play it. Only a handful made it to my country and I asked the dealer if he offered strings for this weird bridge. He only had a handful of packs, with no intent to bring more...
> Then again the cheapest model of that time (Bronze) shared the same humbucker as the flagship models (NJ) in the form of the BDSM pickup. Which extends the feeling of cheapness to the more expensive models. Full disclosure, I appreciate the pickup in some form as heard on Dark Funeral and Bolt Thrower gigs.
> If anyone wants the Speedloader guitars they need to add tuners and a new nut (additional expenses), a poster in another thread has a Mock which is being mod at this point. Check it for opinions.



The Speedloader was all marketing. At the time BCR and Floyd Rose were owned by the same parent company, so they made BCR use the new Speedloader unit which was supposed to be Floyd Rose's entrance into the string market and drive conversion and licensing sales. 

They made the Speedloader specifically to drive sales, which is why it flopped so bad. Cart before the horse. 

Doesn't help that both brands were in financial turmoil at the time, so they were never able to give the unit the push it needed to enter the market with enough support.


----------



## twguitar

Exciting times, just what no one ordered..... an over the top bling 8 string strat?


----------



## Merrekof

Well it is nice to see new BC Riches, but why another 8 string superstrat? There are plenty of those already. 

To be honest, the whole speedloader thing was a disaster from the start. The only real benefit is changing strings faster than a Micheal Angelo Batio solo. It looks sleek but other than that, there are nothing but downsides to the whole thing.


----------



## jonsick

I simply LOVED my speedloader beast. The strings were a PITA to get, sure and they did not last well. I job-lot ordered a bunch from floyd rose back in the day but quickly found the shelf life in their packets to be about 2 months maximum. 

I sold my beast on and sincerely regret it. I've since done conversions on other Speedloader BC Riches to add tuning machines and appropriate hardware changes. Other than drilling for a new set of machine heads, it's a simple job. The only tricky part is the shelf for the locking nut needs a little shaved off it as an OFR locking nut is a little deeper than the speedloader nut. You can get away without doing it, but I would personally just to keep it in-spec.


----------



## manu80

Little by little we’re heading to namm 2020 i guess
Hope they’ll get it right !!!!


----------



## 777timesgod

MaxOfMetal said:


> The Speedloader was all marketing. At the time BCR and Floyd Rose were owned by the same parent company, so they made BCR use the new Speedloader unit which was supposed to be Floyd Rose's entrance into the string market and drive conversion and licensing sales.
> 
> They made the Speedloader specifically to drive sales, which is why it flopped so bad. Cart before the horse.
> 
> Doesn't help that both brands were in financial turmoil at the time, so they were never able to give the unit the push it needed to enter the market with enough support.



Exactly, they were owned by HHI if I am not mistaken. You would expect that since the same company owned both, that more BC riches would have OFR but no, the majority were licensed cheap copies. If I recall, the only originals were on the Speedloader NJ and the Floyd Rose NJ.



jonsick said:


> I simply LOVED my speedloader beast. The strings were a PITA to get, sure and they did not last well. I job-lot ordered a bunch from floyd rose back in the day but quickly found the shelf life in their packets to be about 2 months maximum.
> 
> I sold my beast on and sincerely regret it. I've since done conversions on other Speedloader BC Riches to add tuning machines and appropriate hardware changes. Other than drilling for a new set of machine heads, it's a simple job. The only tricky part is the shelf for the locking nut needs a little shaved off it as an OFR locking nut is a little deeper than the speedloader nut. You can get away without doing it, but I would personally just to keep it in-spec.



The BC Rich headstocks did look great without the tuners, I will give them that. Does it affect the string changing time significantly when you add tuners? I mean to the level of a normal FR.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

777timesgod said:


> Exactly, they were owned by HHI if I am not mistaken. You would expect that since the same company owned both, that more BC riches would have OFR but no, the majority were licensed cheap copies. If I recall, the only originals were on the Speedloader NJ and the Floyd Rose NJ.



They couldn't afford it. 

Seriously. Schaller was churning out as many OFRs as they could. They [HHI] made more money per unit sending them off to other companies than putting them on BCRs, which weren't making money at the time. 

The only reason they got the Speedloader was because no one else wanted it and it was cheaper per unit than the regular OFRs.

BCR has been an absolute dumpster fire behind the scenes since most forum members have been alive.


----------



## 777timesgod

MaxOfMetal said:


> BCR has been an absolute dumpster fire behind the scenes since *ALL* forum members have been alive.



FIFY


----------



## Merrekof

MaxOfMetal said:


> BCR has been an absolute dumpster fire behind the scenes since most forum members have been alive.



Wich is pretty sad because it could've gone completely different. Solar guitars is a good example btw. They've been around for 3 years and are doing a whole lot better than BCR was the last 30 years.


----------



## Andromalia

Well, a brand designed by a touring musician has more chances of having a product people actually want. Evertune bridges still aren't very common from mainstream brands and he jumped on that.


----------



## jonsick

777timesgod said:


> The BC Rich headstocks did look great without the tuners, I will give them that. Does it affect the string changing time significantly when you add tuners? I mean to the level of a normal FR.


Well string changing time on a Speedloader is literal seconds. Pop up, pop the old string out, new one in, pop down, done and it's already in tune. Well 99% of the time. So yes, the Speedloader does live up to its name.

The problem is of course string availability. You can order them from Floyd Rose themselves still, but they just are not generally available. And contrary to common demands, you can absolutely use lower tunings with the Speedloader; my Beast was in C for all the time I had it.

But if you can't get the strings for them easily, it's better to simply do the conversion to a standard Floyd Rose. For what it's worth, I can restring a standard 6-string in 7 or 8 minutes if I am really in a hurry. Usually I take my time with it and generally do my changes with something on in the background.


----------



## 777timesgod

Merrekof said:


> Wich is pretty sad because it could've gone completely different. Solar guitars is a good example btw. They've been around for 3 years and are doing a whole lot better than BCR was the last 30 years.



Well, its still early to pass a verdict on the brand as the hype is still strong and only a few years have passed. Ola did piggyback Washburn though on his way to Solar so the guitars did not start from scratch. Lets see how he does in the future. BC Rich is such a low benchmark that you need to dig a hole to not go over it.



jonsick said:


> Well string changing time on a Speedloader is literal seconds. Pop up, pop the old string out, new one in, pop down, done and it's already in tune. Well 99% of the time. So yes, the Speedloader does live up to its name.
> 
> The problem is of course string availability. You can order them from Floyd Rose themselves still, but they just are not generally available. And contrary to common demands, you can absolutely use lower tunings with the Speedloader; my Beast was in C for all the time I had it.
> 
> But if you can't get the strings for them easily, it's better to simply do the conversion to a standard Floyd Rose. For what it's worth, I can restring a standard 6-string in 7 or 8 minutes if I am really in a hurry. Usually I take my time with it and generally do my changes with something on in the background.



Agreed, I like to dismantle each FR part when the string change time comes and I make sure it is on a free afternoon with music in the back, not necessarily metal as well. Could be the Tiger Lillies or Classical, something to soothe the nerves as I go through the process. BTW post a pic of the Beast when you find time.


----------



## DCG1269

cardinal said:


> I have no idea what's going on with the current company, but I'm pretty sure that even the vintage BC Riches that were really great were assembled and finished in California from body blanks made in Mexico, so if that's what the new outfit is doing, it shouldn't be shocking.
> 
> But that quote seems to say that the body blanks simply "look" like the ones by Jr. that were made in Mexico and finished in the US. I don't know his expertise or what other info he has, but generally a vague pic of an unfinished body blank done by someone is going to look like... an unfinished body blank done by anyone else?


I ran the wood shop at B.C. Rich in El Monte, CA and none of the vintage guitars were made from blanks made in Mexico. I personally made up to 40 bolt on bodies a day from 87’ to 89’. All blanks were prepped and glued up in the wood shop in El Monte. We even made the neck thru cores for the “Hombres” that hand carved them in the room next to the main wood shop.


----------



## cardinal

DCG1269 said:


> I ran the wood shop at B.C. Rich in El Monte, CA and none of the vintage guitars were made from blanks made in Mexico. I personally made up to 40 bolt on bodies a day from 87’ to 89’. All blanks were prepped and glued up in the wood shop in El Monte. We even made the neck thru cores for the “Hombres” that hand carved them in the room next to the main wood shop.



Awesome. Thanks for the info! You guys did incredible work!


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

DCG1269 said:


> I ran the wood shop at B.C. Rich in El Monte, CA and none of the vintage guitars were made from blanks made in Mexico. I personally made up to 40 bolt on bodies a day from 87’ to 89’. All blanks were prepped and glued up in the wood shop in El Monte. We even made the neck thru cores for the “Hombres” that hand carved them in the room next to the main wood shop.



Is this Mal?


----------



## twguitar

That’s just not true David there are so many sources (Neal, Mal, Matt T) with proof that ‘golden era’ blanks were made in TJ then brought into the states. The Rico’s did this through the 2nd era and BRJ too.


----------



## DCG1269

twguitar said:


> That’s just not true David there are so many sources (Neal, Mal, Matt T) with proof that ‘golden era’ blanks were made in TJ then brought into the states. The Rico’s did this through the 2nd era and BRJ too.


It is true, from 1987 to 1989 I don’t care what Mal or (with respect) Neal or anyone else has to say about it. I was the wood shop Forman, I ran the wood shop and none of the people you mentioned were working there at that time. So they did not see the daily operations nor did they know my skill level which I assure you is as high as anyone on the planet. Very few (5) Americans were employed as a designer/master builder for Yamaha Corp. I was one of them. I also worked at Fender’s Custom Shop. Qualifications aside, You were not there, so your “facts” are hearsay at best. Thank you.


----------



## twguitar

DCG1269 said:


> It is true, from 1987 to 1989 I don’t care what Mal or (with respect) Neal or anyone else has to say about it. I was the wood shop Forman, I ran the wood shop and none of the people you mentioned were working there at that time. So they did not see the daily operations nor did they know my skill level which I assure you is as high as anyone on the planet. Very few (5) Americans were employed as a designer/master builder for Yamaha Corp. I was one of them. I also worked at Fender’s Custom Shop. Qualifications aside, You were not there, so your “facts” are hearsay at best. Thank you.


I’m not denying your abilities, I respect you as a luthier very much so. But to deny that BC Rich ever made blanks on Mexico is wrong. They didn’t while you were there, fine but in other eras is was common practice.


----------



## DCG1269

DCG1269 said:


> It is true, from 1987 to 1989 I don’t care what Mal or (with respect) Neal or anyone else has to say about it. I was the wood shop Forman, I ran the wood shop and none of the people you mentioned were working there at that time. So they did not see the daily operations nor did they know my skill level which I assure you is as high as anyone on the planet. Very few (5) Americans were employed as a designer/master builder for Yamaha Corp. I was one of them. I also worked at Fender’s Custom Shop. Qualifications aside, You were not there, so your “facts” are hearsay at best. Thank you.


If you truly want the truth from someone other than myself, please feel free to contact the men that were actually there, the guys I worked with.
(I hold no ill will, I just want you to know the truth of this two year era).
Ron Estrada was my second in command in the wood shop, he was my right hand man. We, (B.C. Rich) as a company would not have created instruments at the level we achieved without Ron Estrada, Dan Lawrence, Karl Sandoval, Bob Smith, Greg Georgeson and all the other guys I had the greatest pleasure to be working with. Ask any of them, because they were there from 87’ to 89’.
Thank you


----------



## DCG1269

twguitar said:


> I’m not denying your abilities, I respect you as a luthier very much so. But to deny that BC Rich ever made blanks on Mexico is wrong. They didn’t while you were there, fine but in other eras is was common practice.


I am not denying anything. Now the line of reasoning has changed. I always said from 87’ through 89’ respectively. I never mentioned any other era. Yes, of course Bernie Jr. had his production done in Mexico, that is common knowledge. I cannot speak for any time other than 87’-89’ because I was not there. If you have proof, thats fine, you’ll get no argument from me. I am only saying that there is no proof from 1987 to 1989 because no proof exists. If anyone claims to have any proof during that era, it is false and fabricated. 
Thank you


----------



## zappatton2

So for the BCR experts out there, does anyone know anything about the acoustic Ironbird that was at NAMM a couple of years back? I've never heard soundclips or seen anything of it aside from a couple of pictures at NAMM. That thing was just to gorgeous to keep under wraps, and I'm curious to see/hear more of it. 

Sort of back to topic, I feel like if the BCR custom shop website had an up-to-date gallery of everything coming out of the custom shop, that alone could do wonders for demand. I guess it's subjective, but everything that pops up on the FB site looks like gold to me, I'm sure there are more than a few slipping under the radar.


----------



## DCG1269

zappatton2 said:


> So for the BCR experts out there, does anyone know anything about the acoustic Ironbird that was at NAMM a couple of years back? I've never heard soundclips or seen anything of it aside from a couple of pictures at NAMM. That thing was just to gorgeous to keep under wraps, and I'm curious to see/hear more of it.
> 
> Sort of back to topic, I feel like if the BCR custom shop website had an up-to-date gallery of everything coming out of the custom shop, that alone could do wonders for demand. I guess it's subjective, but everything that pops up on the FB site looks like gold to me, I'm sure there are more than a few slipping under the radar.


I made that Ironbird, all Koa. There’s a few clips of me on instagram and Facebook (DCG David Cervantes Guitars) check in videos. Carlos Humberto Llanos Gutierrez playing it on Facebook too. My Instagram is https://www.instagram.com/p/BPZQ00EDrL_/?igshid=1eob9rdnush1r
If you’d like to see it being played.
I caught a lot of unnecessary negative comments on it because it was not exactly the same shape as the electric version. Everyone should know that this was not done to upset anyone. I did make several mock ups to test for resonance and tone quality. Being a completely new instrument, I felt that how it sounds is just as important as how it looks. So, I modified the original Ironbird shape until it worked to my satisfaction as an acoustic instrument. The modifications were made for no other reason than sound quality. I did receive many favorable comments on the guitar. Kerry King liked it. Chris Poland liked it. I have photos to prove that. Many other great guitar players, electric and acoustic guys at NAMM 2017 really loved it. I did my best to honor the acoustic building history of B.C. Rich with this guitar. Yes, I agree with you regarding the custom shop. Ron Estrada is doing his best, although as you all know, the brand has had more than it’s share of mismanagement and controversy. Various ownership changes and lack of motivation to properly promote the brand, quality and distribution have also contributed to the current state of B.C. Rich. Ron knows what he doing. There is no doubt in my mind that B.C. Rich matters more to him than anyone. Unfortunately, Ron, myself and everyone at the Custom Shop are not in control of anything. As things change with the new ownership, we can only hope for the best.
Thank you,
Dave


----------



## zappatton2

DCG1269 said:


> I made that Ironbird, all Koa. There’s a few clips of me on instagram and Facebook (DCG David Cervantes Guitars) check in videos. Carlos Humberto Llanos Gutierrez playing it on Facebook too. My Instagram is https://www.instagram.com/p/BPZQ00EDrL_/?igshid=1eob9rdnush1r
> If you’d like to see it being played.
> I caught a lot of unnecessary negative comments on it because it was not exactly the same shape as the electric version. Everyone should know that this was not done to upset anyone. I did make several mock ups to test for resonance and tone quality. Being a completely new instrument, I felt that how it sounds is just as important as how it looks. So, I modified the original Ironbird shape until it worked to my satisfaction as an acoustic instrument. The modifications were made for no other reason than sound quality. I did receive many favorable comments on the guitar. Kerry King liked it. Chris Poland liked it. I have photos to prove that. Many other great guitar players, electric and acoustic guys at NAMM 2017 really loved it. I did my best to honor the acoustic building history of B.C. Rich with this guitar. Yes, I agree with you regarding the custom shop. Ron Estrada is doing his best, although as you all know, the brand has had more than it’s share of mismanagement and controversy. Various ownership changes and lack of motivation to properly promote the brand, quality and distribution have also contributed to the current state of B.C. Rich. Ron knows what he doing. There is no doubt in my mind that B.C. Rich matters more to him than anyone. Unfortunately, Ron, myself and everyone at the Custom Shop are not in control of anything. As things change with the new ownership, we can only hope for the best.
> Thank you,
> Dave


Thank you so much for the info!!! Not to mention that link, I think that thing is bloody gorgeous, and sounds amazing!! You absolutely made the right call modifying for tone, that was the very reason I wanted to hear it played. I always wondered which shapes would be the best for resonance, and which would be simply unusable as an acoustic. I'm guessing the Draco is right out, haha!!


----------



## DCG1269

zappatton2 said:


> Thank you so much for the info!!! Not to mention that link, I think that thing is bloody gorgeous, and sounds amazing!! You absolutely made the right call modifying for tone, that was the very reason I wanted to hear it played. I always wondered which shapes would be the best for resonance, and which would be simply unusable as an acoustic. I'm guessing the Draco is right out, haha!!


You’re very welcome. Yes, I think it sounds pretty darn good. For me, it was the most difficult acoustic build yet. Yeah, I personally would not attempt a Draco.


----------



## Dawn of the Shred

Upgrades almost done with this one. Now if BCR could get out of the dumpster and take some notes


----------



## Mathemagician

Dawn of the Shred said:


> Upgrades almost done with this one. Now if BCR could get out of the dumpster and take some notes
> View attachment 70594


*cartman voice* 

Omg sweet.


----------



## twguitar

Keep an eye on the site, the relaunch is coming soon....

http://bcrich.com


----------



## Merrekof

Dammit, been following and commenting on this thread..now I'm starting to get hyped! 
I sincerely hope BCRich crawls out of the hole it got itself in.


----------



## Evil Chuck

Dawn of the Shred said:


> Upgrades almost done with this one. Now if BCR could get out of the dumpster and take some notes
> View attachment 70594


I love these. What upgrades have you done? I'm looking to replace the tuners on my Jr.V with some locking tuners, but not sure what would be the best fit wise.


----------



## Athor

[URL]https://www.instagram.com/p/BzyExk9AF6C/[/URL]

So the Stealth is officially back as an import!


----------



## Mathemagician

Neckthrough ironbird hardtail or stealth hardtail and I’m in. Fuck it i’ll even buy one with a Floyd.


----------



## MrWulf

sweet jesus those neckthrough are sublime.


----------



## Rosal76

Athor said:


> So the Stealth is officially back as an import!



+1.

Also, in the 2nd picture (black guitars), the 3 guitars in the back look like Speed V's. At first, I thought they were Jr. V's but upon close inspection, they don't have the angled tips that the Jr. V's have. Don't mind at all getting a black Speed V.


----------



## possumkiller

I see the abalone binding and spalted veneers survived. I see a mockingbird with a giant ass evertune rout. I see a lot of ESP Vs for some reason.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Stealth and Speed V?

Already starting off right.


----------



## possumkiller

I also see a Les Paul and what looks like a few BRJ Jekylls.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

The spalted maple is past its expiration date and looks hideous with excessive abalone binding.


----------



## Merrekof

I can see a couple of 7 (maybe 8) strings. Possibly a Mockingbird with evertune? So..that is starting to look good.


----------



## Rosal76

Merrekof said:


> I can see a couple of 7 (maybe 8) strings.



They do have a 8 string strat in their lineup. Looks a look a Schecter. Top is red with all the binding and all.


----------



## Edika

After a while the smaller wing angle and size of the JrV started getting to me. I wonder if the speed V is more of a regular V size? Also please no 3x3 ugly headstock.


----------



## Masoo2

Edika said:


> After a while the smaller wing angle and size of the JrV started getting to me. I wonder if the speed V is more of a regular V size? Also please no 3x3 ugly headstock.


I mostly attribute the Speed V to the likes of the ESP NV and a few customs out there (ie: KxK) due to the straightness of the wings without any curves/angle changes/etc. and completely symmetry

not really sure how it translates to overall size though


but please if they legit bring back the Speed V in it's proper form (completely straight wings) in some basic colors (ie: black, white/cream, etc) I'll buy on release. idc which headstock I just want the proper body


----------



## Rosal76

Masoo2 said:


> I mostly attribute the Speed V to the likes of the ESP NV and a few customs out there (ie: KxK) due to the straightness of the wings without any curves/angle changes/etc. and completely symmetry
> 
> not really sure how it translates to overall size though



I don't own either of those shapes but people who do have stated that the Speed V/KKV shape is larger than the Jr. V. I think they say the Jr. V is thinner. In the picture below, it seems the KKV's horns are, indeed, a little larger than the Jr. Vs'.


----------



## Rosal76

Hey, guys. According to Red Blanket guitars (store) Facebook page, here is a list of the guitars that B.C. Rich are going to release for their import line.

Mockingbird ST Honeyburst w/Floyd
Mockingbird ST Black Burst w/Floyd
Mockingbird ST Purple Burst w/Quad...
Stealth Onyx w/Quad
Rich Bich Doubleneck Koa
Warbeast Extreme Matte Black w/Floyd
Warlock Extreme Pearl White w/Floyd
Shredzilla Extreme Cyan Blue w/Floyd
Shredzilla Extreme 7-string Trans Black Satin w/Hipshot
Shredzilla Prophecy Archtop Claro Walnut w/Floyd
Shredzilla Prophecy Archtop 8-string Black Cherry /Hipshot
Jr-V Extreme Matte Black w/Floyd
Mockingbird Extreme Black Cherry Burst w/Evertune

A few pictures from their Facebook page. They have more pics but these are the 3 I thought are the coolest.


----------



## Vostre Roy

Still no Ironbirds in sight, but I think I could settle for a Stealth. Will wait for the actual full specs, but the hype is there

EDIT: Here's EXACTLY what they need to reissue: https://www.ebay.ca/itm/B-C-Rich-IR...833153?hash=item3fc68966c1:g:PF4AAOSwZyJdGCQ2

Damn if I wasn't going to Iceland for vacation next month, I'd probably had just bought that right now. Damn you bad timing!


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Stealth, neck through, with quad. Well 2/3 aint bad and now they need to shut up and take my money.

Won't be the first time I've pulled a quad and had a kahler put on....


----------



## Rosal76

Vostre Roy said:


> Still no Ironbirds in sight,



Red Blanket Guitars responded to some of the comments that inquired about Ironbird guitars and basses.

For the Ironbird guitars: "No Ironbird? There will be an Ironbird 'One' available eventually. There may be something else coming too".

For Ironbird basses: "Any Ironbird basses? Nope, maybe 2020".


----------



## Merrekof

Hmm, maybe I anticipated a little more from them this time . Only one evertune, few 7 strings. But then again, I don't have the money or time for a new BCRich. I would like to try them out some time. To see if they are actually decent.

I feel like this is a similar, but smaller, line up that they had 15 years ago.

That 8 string headstock though, whoa..


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

How about a Trey Azagthoth InstaGIB signature BC Rich? That'd be cool.


----------



## stevexc

Rosal76 said:


> For Ironbird basses: "Any Ironbird basses? Nope, maybe 2020".



why did it take me this long to realize that's what I need in my life

image included for emphasis


----------



## waffles

Spaced Out Ace said:


> How about a Trey Azagthoth InstaGIB signature BC Rich? That'd be cool.



Knowing Trey, I doubt it will happen. But I'd be lying if I say I'm not interested.


----------



## possumkiller

Plane black Jr V with reverse pointy headstock is very interesting. The abalone isn't so bad on a solid color BCR.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I wonder if the Shredzilla is just a rebaged Assassin or Gunslinger, or a new shape


----------



## Merrekof

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I wonder if the Shredzilla is just a rebaged Assassin or Gunslinger, or a new shape



Looks more like the Villain model they had like 5 years ago..


----------



## Merrekof

Although, if I look closer.. 
if the gunsliger is an Ibanez RG, than the shredzilla is an Ibanez RGA.. 
Basically a gunslinger with a beveled body.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Merrekof said:


> Looks more like the Villain model they had like 5 years ago..


Judging by the pic from BCR's Instagram, it doesn't look like it. The horns look very pointy and proper-Superstratty.


----------



## Mathemagician

Is the shredzilla that one with the long pointy super strat horns in the pictures on the prior page? Never heard of that model and just assume it’s going to be their “look we made a comfortable superstrat because we actually did some research this time instead of just 19 warlocks.”


----------



## Edika

Ebony or maple fretboards, ebony or maple fretboards, ebony or maple fretboards add infinity. 

That stealth with a maple or ebony board will slay! Same if that is a Speed V looking from the back. Plus reverse headstocks, oh boy! The only drawback will be that abalone binding but I can live with that.


----------



## manu80

Will we have to wait til namm 2020 ?


----------



## twguitar

The Shredzilla is a new shape essentially evolving from the asm/assassin line. 6/7/8 strings, floyds, evertunes and hipshot bridges coming. Both arch top and flattop top versions exist.

You shouldn't have to wait till winter NAMM, keep an eye on Summer NAMM announcements but don't get your hopes up. Winter NAMM will have these and more that haven't been revealed yet.


----------



## bostjan

I am excite!


----------



## manu80

I’m hyperventilating !!! My god !!!!


----------



## ExplorerMike

Man I like what I’m seeing! A new Stealth would be badass.


----------



## StrmRidr

Warlock with reverse pointed headstock? My wallet is in trouble.


----------



## A-Branger

that mockingbird with the pointy reversed headstock is just wrong, whyyy???


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So uh... Anyone else see a Knaggs headstock?


----------



## twguitar

A-Branger said:


> that mockingbird with the pointy reversed headstock is just wrong, whyyy???


Isn’t it just. ‘Extreme’ series so you can get your brutal on 
Lols of guys like them actually, I’m more of a traditionalist. Cool to see them trying stuff like evertune though.


----------



## possumkiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So uh... Anyone else see a Knaggs headstock?


Looks like a Decibel on that back row.


----------



## Rosal76

manu80 said:


> Will we have to wait til namm 2020 ?



Red Blanket guitars (store) claim they already have the double neck Bich in their inventory and that more of the imports are coming to their store, shortly. They also stated that this next Monday or Tuesday is when they will advertise/reveal everything they have, e.g., models, colors, configurations, prices, etc, etc, etc. They have 4 B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop models in stock but those are like $6,000-$6,500 each. But relating to your Namm 2020 question, I would think if they already have some of the imports there/arriving, customers wouldn't have to wait till 2020 to purchase them.


----------



## sirbuh

waffles said:


> Knowing Trey, I doubt it will happen. But I'd be lying if I say I'm not interested.



Yup he has said as much: no interest in formally associating with any brands. 
However, would be an easy sale for me.


----------



## trem licking

twguitar said:


> The Shredzilla is a new shape essentially evolving from the asm/assassin line. 6/7/8 strings, floyds, evertunes and hipshot bridges coming. Both arch top and flattop top versions exist.
> 
> You shouldn't have to wait till winter NAMM, keep an eye on Summer NAMM announcements but don't get your hopes up. Winter NAMM will have these and more that haven't been revealed yet.



will there be 8 strings with floyds??


----------



## Hollowway

trem licking said:


> will there be 8 strings with floyds??



I'd buy one instantly if there were. But, I'm going to guess that there won't be, because the world hates us 8 string Floyd lovers.


----------



## trem licking

Hollowway said:


> I'd buy one instantly if there were. But, I'm going to guess that there won't be, because the world hates us 8 string Floyd lovers.


BC rich seems like a company crazy enough to actually do something (gasp) out of the ordinary and not mainstream


----------



## CapinCripes

Hollowway said:


> I'd buy one instantly if there were. But, I'm going to guess that there won't be, because the world hates us 8 string Floyd lovers.


https://www.instagram.com/p/BxyexsNg7Vw/


----------



## trem licking

CapinCripes said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BxyexsNg7Vw/


i will be buying this!


----------



## Hollowway

CapinCripes said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BxyexsNg7Vw/



Duuude!


----------



## Evil Chuck

Mathemagician said:


> Neckthrough ironbird hardtail or stealth hardtail and I’m in. Fuck it i’ll even buy one with a Floyd.


I'm definitely hyped for an Ironbird.


----------



## Mathemagician

Hollowway said:


> Duuude!



Holloway is it you that has been asking for an 8 string with Floyd for 2.76+ years? Time to pony up brah. Time to put your titanium block where your mouf is.


----------



## possumkiller

CapinCripes said:


> https://www.instagram.com/p/BxyexsNg7Vw/


It is really amazing how much better a black cherry quilt veneer abalone hellraiser would look just by changing the cross inlays to diamonds.


----------



## mogar

Oh man. I've been wanting a Stealth almost as much as a Warlock II. Will be keeping my eye out on these for sure.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## MASS DEFECT

i hope they stop using abalone. Abalone should be left in 2002. But I welcome this comeback for 2019. Nice to see more pointy guitars!


----------



## Athor

MASS DEFECT said:


> i hope they stop using abalone. Abalone should be left in 2002. But I welcome this comeback for 2019. Nice to see more pointy guitars!


They even confirmed the return of the Chuck schuldiner Stealth in a comment on instagram.


----------



## Mathemagician

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



Someone is gonna put some EMG’s in this bad boy. Me. I’m someone.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Normally I don't care when a guitar does or doesn't have pickup rings

But this looks so much better without them.


----------



## Hollowway

Mathemagician said:


> Holloway is it you that has been asking for an 8 string with Floyd for 2.76+ years? Time to pony up brah. Time to put your titanium block where your mouf is.



Haha, yes, it is. I died a little inside when I saw all the abalone, but I’d still buy one if the price isn’t ridiculous. My Agile 8 is the only Floyd 8 I’ve ever played, and it’s the best $350 I’ve spent. I’d love a higher quality guitar to add to my collection of 1.


----------



## Vyn

Hollowway said:


> Haha, yes, it is. I died a little inside when I saw all the abalone, but I’d still buy one if the price isn’t ridiculous. My Agile 8 is the only Floyd 8 I’ve ever played, and it’s the best $350 I’ve spent. I’d love a higher quality guitar to add to my collection of 1.



How the fuck did you get an Agile with a Floyd!? All the 8s listed on their page have Kahlers


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Vyn said:


> How the fuck did you get an Agile with a Floyd!? All the 8s listed on their page have Kahlers


Because they change options and models all the time as they get made.


----------



## Vyn

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Because they change options and models all the time as they get made.



Fair shout. Still hanging out for the dream that is the Lo Pro 8. Sneaking suspicion that the heat death of the universe will come before that one.


----------



## trem licking

Hollowway said:


> Haha, yes, it is. I died a little inside when I saw all the abalone, but I’d still buy one if the price isn’t ridiculous. My Agile 8 is the only Floyd 8 I’ve ever played, and it’s the best $350 I’ve spent. I’d love a higher quality guitar to add to my collection of 1.


You haven't tried the hellraiser c8 fr? It's a legit guitar man, should give it a spin if you get a chance. Schecter just discontinued them so if ya want a new one, now's the time. Or just wait for this BC beast haha. I've never really even given BC Rich a look until now but as long as it's not hugely priced, I will have one of their 8s with Floyd.


----------



## spudmunkey

From their Instagram Stories:


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Really quadrupling down on the abalone, eh?


----------



## possumkiller

Hey 2010 called and they want their kill buttons back.

Seriously though, Evertunes and Fishmans is definitely the recipe for success lately in metal guitars so I think these should do ok. Plus they are bringing out an all new RG type superstrat? I think someone at BCR definitely has their fingers on the pulse of our dick veins.


----------



## possumkiller

Honestly tho if that's a black satin jrv with reverse pointy headstock and naked neck thru with a floyd and some EMGs, I'll have a hard time restraining myself.


----------



## Zado




----------



## Merrekof

Satandammit, those mockingbirds with Fishmans and an Evertune.. if I had the money, I might get another 6 string! The abalone binding might be too much though.


----------



## MrWulf

Maybe im the only one who likes the abalone binding. It fits with BCR's new flashy, modern aesthetics tbh.

Maybe it is time to sell off my Agile for one of these....


----------



## Mathemagician

As long as the stealth is stealthy....


----------



## spudmunkey

It's "purfling", damnit!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> It's "purfling", damnit!



Man, I can't tell you how much that used to bother me.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> Man, I can't tell you how much that used to bother me.



I bet it made you so mad, you just went off on your guitar's tremolo (vibrato) bridge, and flipped it's phase (polarity) switch (ok, so that one's not _as_ bad as the others) and admired the fretboard (fingerboard) on your fretless neck (fingerboard).


----------



## stinkoman

Was it ever mentioned where the imports are being made now or by whom? I haven't played, nor had interest in newer made BC Rich stuff in years, but all the imports I played in the past decade in most price ranges have been pretty bad from my personal experience. I assume they was/are made by WMI Or cort who makes everything. But for whatever reason compared to Jackson, Ibanez,Ltd, Schecter, especially lower end price range, I felt like they have been the bottom of the barrel in QC. And I'm not a BC Rich hater and want them to thrive. I also could just had really bad luck compared to those brands, but that has been the biggest thing that kept my interest away from them.


----------



## Mathemagician

BC Rich was 100% cheaping out in every way possible on their imports for at least a decade before they disappeared from stores for the last few years. You’re not crazy. That’s kind of what this whole thread is about. For once they all LOOK good and many of us who like dumb metal shapes are HOPING that this time they actually are good. Personally Idc if it’s MII, as long as it’s good to play and prices well. We’ll see.


----------



## mpexus

Athor said:


> They even confirmed the return of the Chuck schuldiner Stealth in a comment on instagram.



Shit!!! I cannot buy another guitar so soon


----------



## gunch

Who goes around and tells the product managers, engineers and marketers "Actually, metal players think abalone is dope as fuck"

the _not_Jekyll is cool I guess


----------



## manu80

They say on their fb page that they are starting shipping
Extreme warlock with fishman
Just hope not to see crazy prices like that indo ziricote warlock 2 yrs ago...


----------



## spudmunkey

stinkoman said:


> Was it ever mentioned where the imports are being made now or by whom?



In a recent Instagram post, someone posited that the posted photo was from a guitar made in china or something for some reason, and BC Rich posted that while it was imported, it was: "In fact the highest quality import you can possibly buy, because it is made by the best factory in the World."

Unless it's coming from Japan, in my head, that's marketing code for WMI.


----------



## olejason

Why would they not just say WMI made them. What's the big deal?


----------



## Randy

spudmunkey said:


> that's marketing code for WMI.



I knew it was WMI when I saw blue and green burst over poplar burl. Good to see their old Schecter abologna inlay machine still works.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Looking at those scribbles on the paint tapes, probably Korean in origin.


----------



## PuriPuriPrisoner

I really like subtle abalone, like having it as fretboard dots, but it looks gaudy as hell as neck and/or body binding.


----------



## spudmunkey

"[Guitars] are loading into containers as we speak"

"Official website launches in a couple of weeks. Guitars are in sea containers heading to retailers and to our warehouses. We are posting details and pictures here [instagram] in the upcoming days"


----------



## manu80

I would have shown the whole range before they arrive at retailers, just to see the players’ interest...


----------



## spudmunkey

They might still. They seemingly haven't been picked up yet, haven't made it to dock yet, and have around 2-3 weeks on the water (they have to stop at China, first) before then having to make their way to the warehouses...to then be sent out again to retailers, etc.


----------



## Bdtunn

Schecter and esp called they want their old Abalone back,...... anyone? Anyone? Alright I’ll show my self out


----------



## spudmunkey

Bdtunn said:


> Schecter and esp called they want their old Abalone back,...... anyone? Anyone? Alright I’ll show my self out



Only because you're late. That joke was last make just 6 posts ago.


----------



## Bdtunn

spudmunkey said:


> Only because you're late. That joke was last make just 6 posts ago.



Ah damn haha I even quickly checked back too see, time to see the eye dr....

Kinda bummed on the binding. I love the old warlocks and ironbirds. I hope they have them with black or white


----------



## MikeH

I’m gonna be honest. As a man who has had a strong hankering for an extreme shape lately, that white Warlock looks slick as hell.


----------



## trem licking

I think the binding makes these extreme shapes look better... less cheap, if you will.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## possumkiller

That looks like an 80s USA Ironbird. I would be extremely surprised if that was a brand new WMI Ironbird.


----------



## twguitar

It’s not, it’s a custom shop build from earlier in the year based on the 80s rivets. Ron Estrada built that one with Dan Lawrence doing the paint.


----------



## manu80

About to get photographed


----------



## Andromalia

Who told them abalone EVERYWHERE was a good idea ffs.


----------



## jonsick

I'll be honest. I started my playing life with my first serious guitar, a Japanese warlock. I've had some really nice BC Rich guitars in life. I genuinely hope the people running things now do a good job. I'm for sure going to buy something not just to be a minor drop in the ocean of support, but I genuinely want to see what they have done with it.

I have a Mark 11 warlock from the last go round (found an open box/b stock one that I couldn't pass up) and there are some severe shortcomings with it. I could imagine I would be highly annoyed if I had paid top whack for it. But I believe in the benefit of the doubt. So let's see what happens!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> Who told them abalone EVERYWHERE was a good idea ffs.



For real. 

Were these hiding in a storage unit from 2008? The abalone, spalted veneers, poorly executed lizard/tropical bursts, and black cherry finish just seem so dated.


----------



## manu80

I agree with that...
Not that a bc rich needs to be all black but...they’re mixing solar and schecter ?
Hope they’ll bring back the regular gunslingers too


----------



## Vyn

MaxOfMetal said:


> For real.
> 
> Were these hiding in a storage unit from 2008? The abalone, spalted veneers, poorly executed lizard/tropical bursts, and black cherry finish just seem so dated.



The 16 year old in me is loving it haha. That black cherry finish was everywhere


----------



## KnightBrolaire

abalone binding is a hard pass from me. I might consider an ironbird or stealth just because I'm on a bit of a pointy kick right now.


----------



## Aliascent

That natural stealth is hot, and so are the white warlock and quilted top mockingbird.


----------



## SandyRavage

100% these all look boring. Was really looking forward to them sticking to more basic finishes and focusing on putting out a quality product. Was optimistic about their new super strat but abalone and finish are liking it for me and just look gaudy and cheap.

Should have stuck with the retro line with a few modern touches like finishes, SS frets, quality hardware etc. 

Stealth looks like they may be on the right track and agree with the natural finish looks great.

Also, no ironbird no care. The rivets and all the controls looked tired in the 80s.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

manu80 said:


> View attachment 71184
> About to get photographed



WTF who brought the old Schecters?

Like seriously if I wanted something that looks like those eyesores I'll buy an Agile or some old Schecter. New superstrat? No, no that is a new superfail.

Looks like the stealth is the only thing I even want at this point and if i cant get it without that spalted shit I'm walking away and buying a Jackson.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## MrWulf

Man the horns on the Shredzilla looked off. But goddamn if it isnt making my inner 21 years old hype for it. Abalone binding? Colorful burst? Floyd? Pointy headstock? Oh lord help my wallet.


----------



## possumkiller

That Hellraiser Warlock is awesome. Strange how the Schecter Hot Topic aesthetic looks pukeworthy on regular guitars but nice on a BCR.

Edit: SHOW ME THE V!


----------



## nedheftyfunk

Ever since seeing Sepultura play in 1990, I've wanted a Warlock. I could live with the abalone, but couldn't manage that awful 12th fret inlay...


----------



## Kaura

Not interested until they bring back the Warlock with the ballsack holder headstock. Seriously, my inner 12yo is still GASing for one.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Remember those 2008 LTD M-1000s? Abalone bound headstock and neck, up to like 1cm of the fretboard. That shredzilla brings back memories! 

It kinda works with that fancy top, chrome hardware and maple board.


----------



## olejason

Double P Warlock bass in satin black and no bullshit abalone or inlays please.


----------



## possumkiller

Are there any JrV pics yet?


----------



## cardinal

8-string with a Floyd Rose! And what looks like a 27" scale (the pickups looks close-ish together). 

WOOT. Too bad it's ooogly.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

*Eye roll*

"BC Rich needs to get with the times and make stuff people want!"

BC Rich makes stuff that people want

"BC Rich needs to make stuff like they were making before!"

People weren't buying before...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Unpopular opinion: The Shredzilla looks like an improved Jekyll.


----------



## spudmunkey

cardinal said:


> 8-string with a Floyd Rose! And what looks like a 27" scale (the pickups looks close-ish together).



Wouldn't a longer scale have pickups further apart, if they have the same number of frets?


----------



## cip 123

Take that binding away and you'd have some damn fine guitars


----------



## cardinal

spudmunkey said:


> Wouldn't a longer scale have pickups further apart, if they have the same number of frets?



Yeah, it looks like 27" to me rather than 28", like the Hellraiser C8FR.


----------



## StrmRidr

Plain white binding on that Warlock would have made it so much better. I'm actually kind of excited for this relaunch though. The previous go was really lackluster. The natural stealth is killer.


----------



## spudmunkey

cardinal said:


> Yeah, it looks like 27" to me rather than 28", like the Hellraiser C8FR.



Oh, gotcha...I had it in my head the comparison was to a 25.5" or something.


----------



## spudmunkey

I'm digging the ridiculous 50th inlay and the 3+3 headstock on the Mockingbird. I'd love to see it in other woods, though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> *Eye roll*
> 
> "BC Rich needs to get with the times and make stuff people want!"
> 
> BC Rich makes stuff that people want
> 
> "BC Rich needs to make stuff like they were making before!"
> 
> People weren't buying before...



The designs were never the problem. 

It was poor quality control and awful availability, with a heaping of poor management, that sunk the ship last time.


----------



## DiezelMonster

This whole BC Rich situation is kinda hilarious, so many people complaining, Looks like a company did what it wants. I swear all the "fans" wouldn't have bought anything even if they did exactly what the 40 or 50 some odd vocal fans are saying

lol oh well.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> The designs were never the problem.
> 
> It was poor quality control and awful availability, with a heaping of poor management, that sunk the ship last time.



...The designs were a problem. People complained to death about how the shapes were ugly..the headstocks were ugly, etc, etc, etc.

Mind you that "problem" was mainly just internet people who wouldn't be happy with anything B.C. Rich did, which is why they rolled out with a new line of stuff with all the bells and whistles people wanted yet there are still people acting like a fret marker is a major deal breaker on a guitar they knew they weren't buying anyways.

The company seems to be plagued with internet people wanting custom shop shit with production level prices, or asking for models they aren't gonna buy if the company released them anyways.

I agree poor management and the impression of being low quality were major issues but around the time I was into B.C. Rich guitars, their guitars were good quality and played great....but again the "Superstrats or nothing" crowd acted like B.C. Rich was the antichrist. 

BC Rich even made superstrats and whatnot and I recall people going "Those look great...if they had X I'd buy one." or bashing or praising them for making something "normal"...yet still not buying them or even trying them out.

It seems like the company just can't win with certain people. Ah well. This new line looks great and shows that they are really trying to get a footing in today's market, while also trying new things. Yeah they might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I'd say the new line is damn impressive.


----------



## zappatton2

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 71210


Is that Warlock the "Hoffman cut"? Looks like the inner, upper horn is a bit longer than usual.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> ...The designs were a problem. People complained to death about how the shapes were ugly..the headstocks were ugly, etc, etc, etc.
> 
> Mind you that "problem" was mainly just internet people who wouldn't be happy with anything B.C. Rich did, which is why they rolled out with a new line of stuff with all the bells and whistles people wanted yet there are still people acting like a fret marker is a major deal breaker on a guitar they knew they weren't buying anyways.
> 
> The company seems to be plagued with internet people wanting custom shop shit with production level prices, or asking for models they aren't gonna buy if the company released them anyways.
> 
> I agree poor management and the impression of being low quality were major issues but around the time I was into B.C. Rich guitars, their guitars were good quality and played great....but again the "Superstrats or nothing" crowd acted like B.C. Rich was the antichrist.
> 
> BC Rich even made superstrats and whatnot and I recall people going "Those look great...if they had X I'd buy one." or bashing or praising them for making something "normal"...yet still not buying them or even trying them out.
> 
> It seems like the company just can't win with certain people. Ah well. This new line looks great and shows that they are really trying to get a footing in today's market, while also trying new things. Yeah they might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I'd say the new line is damn impressive.



There will always be folks critical of a brand, and that's a good thing.

I don't know when you started or stopped following BCR, but I'm talking about the just previous incarnation. The one which offered the "Mk." tiers of guitars and just simply couldn't get them to dealers, and the few that did were typically subpar. Not the BCR of the aughts that was putting out decent stuff (think the era of the Icon V, Classic series models, and decent offering of ASMs/Gunslingers).

I'm not convinced they're going after "today's" market. As I said, and some seem to agree, everything looks incredibly dated and stale. Not in the cool "80's throwback" kind of way, but just stuff that mostly went out of fashion maybe a decade ago. Brands (and direct competitors at that) ditched a lot of the flourishes we're seeing now.

We'll see how this all goes.


----------



## zappatton2

I dunno, the Warlock, the Beast, Ironbird, Stealth, Widow (as a bass for me), Ignitor (as a 7-string), Mockingbird, the Wave, the double-neck Bich, these are all some of my favourite guitar designs ever, more than any other company. Are you saying I'm old? Cuz if you are, well.. yeah... yes, I really am.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

zappatton2 said:


> I dunno, the Warlock, the Beast, Ironbird, Stealth, Widow (as a bass for me), Ignitor (as a 7-string), Mockingbird, the Wave, the double-neck Bich, these are all some of my favourite guitar designs ever, more than any other company. Are you saying I'm old? Cuz if you are, well.. yeah... yes, I really am.



I'm not talking about the shapes. Never was.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> There will always be folks critical of a brand, and that's a good thing.
> 
> I don't know when you started or stopped following BCR, but I'm talking about the just previous incarnation. The one which offered the "Mk." tiers of guitars and just simply couldn't get them to dealers, and the few that did were typically subpar. Not the BCR of the aughts that was putting out decent stuff (think the era of the Icon V, Classic series models, and decent offering of ASMs/Gunslingers).
> 
> I'm not convinced they're going after "today's" market. As I said, and some seem to agree, everything looks incredibly dated and stale. Not in the cool "80's throwback" kind of way, but just stuff that mostly went out of fashion maybe a decade ago. Brands (and direct competitors at that) ditched a lot of the flourishes we're seeing now.
> 
> We'll see how this all goes.


 
I think they wanted something flashy and colorful. Usually people think of black guitars when thinking of BC Rich..or at least I do. So this was probably their way of breaking from that. I'm not crazy about abalone, personally..but I don't think it really looks bad. If you're already sporting a crazy shape you might as well go all out, I suppose.

With Fishmans, super strats, extended ranges, evertunes, etc they are definitely trying to go after the modern market with a checklist of specs that modern players seem to like.

I hope it does well for them as it looks like they are genuinely trying to make a comeback with quality stuff. Even though I don't play the brand anymore I'll be checking one out in the guitar stores if I come across some


----------



## Hollowway

Teenage me liked stuff like the Warlock, Mockingbird, Bich, etc. Adult me isn't hugely fond of a lot of the shapes, but I still think the Mockingbird is one of the coolest guitar shapes ever. I picked up a used ST-7 'bird about a year ago, and would love to get a nicer one, with some sort of flamed or quilted maple, like the good ol' days.


----------



## spudmunkey

...to me, though, the "ideal" Mockingbird in my head would have the visible 3-piece through-neck.


----------



## Evil Chuck

I think the abolone looks pretty good on the solid color guitars, especially that white Warlock. They could dial it back some, it doesn't need to be so over the top, but...shrug.

On a side note, I read on another forum that BC Rich had been bought out by someone new. Anyone know anything about that?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Teenage me liked stuff like the Warlock, Mockingbird, Bich, etc. Adult me isn't hugely fond of a lot of the shapes, but I still think the Mockingbird is one of the coolest guitar shapes ever. I picked up a used ST-7 'bird about a year ago, and would love to get a nicer one, with some sort of flamed or quilted maple, like the good ol' days.



I love the shapes. I'm typically a Strat/RG/Dinky traditionalist, but BCR really nailed those designs back in the day. 

The Mockingbird and Warlock are awesome, and I'll always dig the Beast. 

Never really dug the Bich or Eagle. 

I remember those ST7s. I tried really hard to find a good one. I settled for an alright one, fixed it up too, but never bonded with it. I should have held onto it.


----------



## Merrekof

Hollowway said:


> Teenage me liked stuff like the Warlock, Mockingbird, Bich, etc. Adult me isn't hugely fond of a lot of the shapes, but I still think the Mockingbird is one of the coolest guitar shapes ever. I picked up a used ST-7 'bird about a year ago, and would love to get a nicer one, with some sort of flamed or quilted maple, like the good ol' days.



This is exactly me. Today I'm interested more in specs than I used to. I used to hate superstrats cause "they all look the same". Now I own 3 superstrats. I also got a BC Rich NJ deluxe Warbeast from the time before the Mk tiers and that guitars is pretty damn good. It was a worthy competitor in it's price range. Like I stated earlier, these days I'm more interested in guitars with, evertune bridges, ratio tuners, decent PU's, 27" scale, 7 strings.. and BC Rich is going for new guitar tech this time. I don't see myself buying another guitar soon but if I was in the market, BC Rich is definetely back as a viable option for me.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I kinda still want a Draco for old time's sake. My current guitars are in no danger of being replaced...but it'd be cool to have a Draco just for fun


----------



## Evil Chuck

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> but it'd be cool to have just for fun


That's why everyone needs B.C. Rich


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Andromalia

That one looks like some Jrock cosplay band would use it.


----------



## broj15

I'm just bummed that there's no ironbird love in the lineup (yet). Hopefully these sell okay and they decide to take a chance on some of thier more extreme shapes next go around. 
Also, just to be that guy, a 5 string HH ironbird bass with a super simple control layout would be my dream "metal" bass.


----------



## Mathemagician

Fuck I skipped the last two pages to post that guitar and @spudmunkey beat me to it by never sleeping!

So yeah. BCR is officially on my radar. They just made me willing to ignore abalone. Fucking abalone. And I don’t even give a care.

Why? Because #teamnobrownfretboards

Also I’m going to have to buy a stealth or something because BCR just worked really hard for my money. That superstrat for example is 100% something I’d play the fuck out of.


----------



## possumkiller

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 71226


I like it and that surprises me. I don't really care about super hyped Fishmans. Hipshot is cool. Kill button I don't care about. I'm sick to death of exotic veneers with loudbursts. I don't like abalone binding. 

For some reason I like that guitar tho. It looks awesome. Must be the headstock.


----------



## Hollowway

Andromalia said:


> That one looks like some Jrock cosplay band would use it.



I was having a hard time getting past the abalone, but if I imagine a Jrock cosplay band playing it, surprisingly I don't mind it as much.  I generally like a pretty spartan design, but I have a soft spot for those over-the-top Japanese sigs from ESP, etc. Plus, I've been bitching about no one making a Floyd 8 for years, so I really gotta pony up when that one drops.


----------



## possumkiller

Are there any new pics? I'm too old for that instant gram and tinder stuff.


----------



## Rosal76

possumkiller said:


> Are there any new pics? I'm too old for that instant gram and tinder stuff.



This picture is from Red Blanket guitars' Facebook page.


----------



## possumkiller

I was really skeptical about this comeback. But the pics are getting me hyped. If these are anything like the ASM Pro I had sent to me in Iraq in 2008, I will pick up a JrV. That guitar was easily on par with my ESP MII UC SS. They felt exactly the same.


----------



## MrWulf

Any 7 stringer?


----------



## Mathemagician

Hey would those hipshot baby grand bridges fit on the stealths?

More for “looks” than anything. But I’m thinking gold hardware on black.......

Fuuuuuuuuck.


----------



## trem licking

Rosal76 said:


> This picture is from Red Blanket guitars' Facebook page.


Man I've never been a huge bc rich guy but all the guitars in this pic look awesome... And I will be buying one of the 8 string floyds. Pretty funny, I just kinda been stumbling into this thread here and there all meh and the last few pages have got me super stoked on this. Love the new finishes/hardware and pickups and if the quality is good then I'm sold


----------



## Rosal76

trem licking said:


> And I will be buying one of the 8 string floyds.



The red one with abalone binding? I'm looking at that one, too, if that's the same model your talking about. I'm window shopping for my first 8 string guitar and that model is on my list. What I want is the natural Stealth but a 8 string guitar is a actual need for the time being.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, @trem licking and I are talking about that red 8. But, no one knows if there are any other colors/options yet, so we just lie in wait....


----------



## Andromalia

No warlock without abalone ? Given the way they're going, I'd have jumped on an evertune warlock with Fishmans


----------



## Opion

It gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that BCR is back. My first ever real guitar was a BC Rich Bronze Warlock, except it was a limited edition with the Widow headstock and not the 6-in-line. Always loved it and thought it was really cool. Still have it and although the bridge has sunk into the body and it needs to be fixed before every being playable, it's been with me for about 15 years and will always bring good memories back. I hope they can keep this momentum going.


----------



## trem licking

Yes indeed the red 8 string, but it'd be killer if they release a couple/few models of 8 strings w floyds. Won't complain if the red is the only one though, it shall be mine


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## MikeH

That superstrat is making my wallet wince.


----------



## Hollowway

Maybe this is just hopeful optimism, but based on the wording of that IG post (and the photos) I feel like they might actually kick some serious ass in this re-launch. It's honoring the old BC Rich, while also trying to launch as a full company from the get-go, but they seem to have their shit together. It could all implode, but it just sounds like this new ownership knows what it's doing.


----------



## Edika

That Stealth looks so great! I'm curious at to what pickups they'll be using. On some photos it seems like it says Dimarzio with something else. 
The more I see the new models the more appealing they become despite the abalone. A Warlock 7 string will be a nice addition and the abalone won't be as intense. 
Plus an Ironbird? Daaaaamn!


----------



## manu80

Looks like Fishman has taken other EMG everywhere...


----------



## possumkiller

Yeah I'm not sure I'd take Fishmans over EMGs in a BCR. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to sell them for a set of EMGs or uncool passive Duncans or DiMarzios.


----------



## waffles

Heh. There's too much Ibanez on those superstrats.

I'd be interested in the new Ironbird and Steatlh models.


----------



## manu80

ibanez or solar or any brand with burl tops...one looks like misha’s jackson
Anyways if the quality is here...
I like the superstrat yellow green one.
The black shredzilla kicks ass too and the red 8 string looks awesome


----------



## Jake

manu80 said:


> ibanez or solar or any brand with burl tops...one looks like misha’s jackson


So it looks like an Ibanez RGA?


----------



## iamaom

All I want is a sub $1000 stealth with a single pickup so I can pretend to be Chuck in my bedroom at 2am.


----------



## zappatton2

I'm pretty ignorant re: Fishman pickups, but the website advertises them as both passive and active. Do you think these guys'll have a push/pull to get both options?

Either way, I'm pretty excited at the possibility of grabbing one of those Warlocks. Used to have an NJ, but wasn't crazy about the neck-dive. Since these don't have the Widow HS, I'm guessing it won't be quite as noticeable. My local music shop used to be a big carrier of BCR, hope they get one of these so I can give it a try


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

zappatton2 said:


> I'm pretty ignorant re: Fishman pickups, but the website advertises them as both passive and active. Do you think these guys'll have a push/pull to get both options?



There's most likely a push-pull to switch the voicings.


----------



## NeglectedField

Only thing putting me off those hardtails is the gaudy abalone and the lack of the usual Strat-type bevel. What gives with that? If Jackson, Charvel, Ibanez, ESP and Schecter etc can do that, why can't BC Rich?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So apparently those pickups in the BCRs are a new line of USA-made DiMarzios?


----------



## MrWulf

Dimarzio, eh? Kind of a turn off tbh.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

So after looking at Fb it seems that BC Rich is under new ownership and will be making new shit!

Heres some pics.







































Now I am not not BC Rich fan at all, but I can commend a guitar company for jumping back for sure!

Not a big fan of the body binding/Neck Binding being abalone since I find that kind of tacky, but if they can provide import specs as good as schecter for a reasonable price, then I might just pick one up!


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Some more pics of other stuff they have!


----------



## BlackSG91

Can't see pictures.


;>)/


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

BlackSG91 said:


> Can't see pictures.
> 
> 
> ;>)/




Sorry about that man!

Heres an imgur link to everything

https://imgur.com/a/79WgC2V


----------



## kisielk

An 8 string with a floyd and fluences? Sign me up!

The Mockingbirds look awesome too.


----------



## Hollowway

We actually have a BCR thread on this already...
https://sevenstring.org/threads/so-is-bc-rich-officially-dead.327419/page-55#post-5029753


----------



## Hollowway

MrWulf said:


> Dimarzio, eh? Kind of a turn off tbh.



You're giving the abalone a pass, but draw a hard line at one of the most popular pickup companies in the world?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Shits looking sick at BCR right now.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

kisielk said:


> An 8 string with a floyd and fluences? Sign me up!
> 
> The Mockingbirds look awesome too.



I actually really like that black warlock the more I look at it. IK i said the abalone is tacky, but on that guitar, it is more tasteful. The Red warlock is also badass. 
These



Hollowway said:


> We actually have a BCR thread on this already...
> https://sevenstring.org/threads/so-is-bc-rich-officially-dead.327419/page-55#post-5029753




Oh sorry about that man. Didn't know people were still posting on that thread. my b


----------



## High Plains Drifter

Spalted Mockingbird and Stealth are just sexy af.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

High Plains Drifter said:


> Spalted Mockingbird and Stealth are just sexy af.




If they make a sleath with a floy imma have a problem


----------



## MrWulf

Hollowway said:


> You're giving the abalone a pass, but draw a hard line at one of the most popular pickup companies in the world?



I have meh experience with Dimarzio. I'd probably rip it out for something else tbh.


----------



## waffles

I remember the rockfield pickups in the old models weren’t that really good.

Wonder how will they compare to the dimarzio fusion edge pups in some of the newer Ibanez models


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

waffles said:


> I remember the rockfield pickups in the old models weren’t that really good.
> 
> Wonder how will they compare to the dimarzio fusion edge pups in some of the newer Ibanez models



I kinda miss the Rockfield Fatass pickup. Too bad they went out of sight. I was interested in those actives they had come up with right before vanishing


----------



## gunch

Holy dickshitting christ if they make an eagle that doesn't suck


----------



## MASS DEFECT

holding my breath for the ironbirds! when did bc rich kill the ironbird from its lineup?


----------



## Moltar

Oh man this makes me so happy!


----------



## spudmunkey

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> If they make a sleath with a floy imma have a problem




sleath
To engage in filthy and scandalous behaviour, with little regard for ethics or legality.
You were sleathy last night mate! 

How was your night? 
I absolutely sleathed it! 

I'm going to sleath that poor girl 
__________________________________________________

*floy*
Proper noun

A diminutive of the female given name Florence.

__________________________________________________

*Imma* f
*Proper noun*

A diminutive of the female given name Immacolata


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> sleath
> To engage in filthy and scandalous behaviour, with little regard for ethics or legality.
> You were sleathy last night mate!
> 
> How was your night?
> I absolutely sleathed it!
> 
> I'm going to sleath that poor girl
> __________________________________________________
> 
> *floy*
> Proper noun
> 
> A diminutive of the female given name Florence.
> 
> __________________________________________________
> 
> *Imma* f
> *Proper noun*
> 
> A diminutive of the female given name Immacolata




XD


----------



## MrWulf

https://reverb.com/shop/the-music-farm

The Music Farm just posted the first batch of new BC Rich live. Mockingbird, Shredzilla, Stealth, and 7 strings Shredzilla even.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

^hmmm $1.4K up. I dont think they mentioned country it was made from? Solid specs, btw. Shredzilla looks good except for the super flat top.


----------



## spudmunkey

So, with the purfling is the "Extreme Series", then...which makes me feel better about a lower price "pleb series".


----------



## MrWulf

MASS DEFECT said:


> ^hmmm $1.4K up. I dont think they mentioned country it was made from? Solid specs, btw. Shredzilla looks good except for the super flat top.



Pretty sure it is WMI.


----------



## Bdtunn

Narrow nuts and short scales, me likey


----------



## Decreate

MASS DEFECT said:


> ^hmmm $1.4K up. I dont think they mentioned country it was made from? Solid specs, btw. Shredzilla looks good except for the super flat top.


On the bottom of the product specs it says that its made in Korea. Kind of curious of the body wood though, haven't really heard of nyotah...


----------



## spudmunkey

Decreate said:


> Kind of curious of the body wood though, haven't really heard of nyotah...



I have...but oddly as a plantation-grown, lighter-and-not-as-good alternative for teak for outdoor furniture.


----------



## Hollowway

Direct mount pups. I really do think they were listening in on what we all want. These are impressing me.

And, I'm in awe of WMI. Those guys can really crank out guitars!


----------



## Hollowway

Bdtunn said:


> Narrow nuts and short scales, me likey


Where did you see that info? I can't find it.


----------



## Merrekof

Damn, they're a lot more expensive than I thought they would be.


----------



## possumkiller

Merrekof said:


> Damn, they're a lot more expensive than I thought they would be.


Still less than an Indo M80M and many other Indo guitars of very hit and miss quality.


----------



## Hollowway

Merrekof said:


> Damn, they're a lot more expensive than I thought they would be.


They're priced like an Ormsby GTR, which is what I anticipated, personally.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

We need some info on this nyotah wood unless the specs are wrong


----------



## MrWulf

It is funny because this isn't the first time BC Rich has use this particular wood. It is a substitute for Mahogany.


----------



## lewis

Headless warlock?
If not i might try making my own haha


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> Headless warlock?
> If not i might try making my own haha



Just grab an old Speedloader model and finish the job.


----------



## lewis

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just grab an old Speedloader model and finish the job.


Dont happen to know if the Hipshot headless tremolo works in Floyd cavities? haha


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> Dont happen to know if the Hipshot headless tremolo works in Floyd cavities? haha



From what I've seen of the routes, no. But that's what a router is for. You'll already need a hacksaw to take care of the not-stock.


----------



## lewis

MaxOfMetal said:


> From what I've seen of the routes, no. But that's what a router is for. You'll already need a *hacksaw to take care of the not-stock*.



Thats the easy bit for me. Ive never owned nor operated a router before.


----------



## Mathemagician

Pretty sure BCR was calling it “Nato” in the past and it was a mahogany substitute.


----------



## Bdtunn

possumkiller said:


> Still less than an Indo M80M and many other Indo guitars of very hit and miss quality.



On music farms website, the reverb add mentions nothing of this. So I checked out the main site and after that ridiculously long description they finally list the specs.


----------



## beerandbeards

Hollowway said:


> Teenage me liked stuff like the Warlock, Mockingbird, Bich, etc. Adult me isn't hugely fond of a lot of the shapes, but I still think the Mockingbird is one of the coolest guitar shapes ever. I picked up a used ST-7 'bird about a year ago, and would love to get a nicer one, with some sort of flamed or quilted maple, like the good ol' days.



All 2002 me wanted was Mick a Thompson’s Warlock


----------



## Mathemagician

I wanted the RG without the word “SE7EN” on it. But it’s ok Jackson makes it now.


----------



## gunch

Hollowway said:


> They're priced like an Ormsby GTR, which is what I anticipated, personally.



This, there wasn't any way in hell with prices of WMI stuff lately they would be less than 1200, Hipshots and Fishmen to boot 

I'll gladly nut up for an eagle though if the quality is there


----------



## gunch

Curious, though, that they're mixing grovers and hipshot bridges


----------



## StrmRidr

The description says the abalone is only for the 50th anniversary models. I'll wait and see but for those of us who are not fond of the abalone, it looks like our wishes will become true sooner than later.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MrWulf said:


> It is funny because this isn't the first time BC Rich has use this particular wood. It is a substitute for Mahogany.




Kind of like Okoume or nato?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

StrmRidr said:


> The description says the abalone is only for the 50th anniversary models. I'll wait and see but for those of us who are not fond of the abalone, it looks like our wishes will become true sooner than later.




Ye I saw that and was glad to hear. It would be like if schecter made the Hellraiser on every guitar with the ugly abalone.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

gunch said:


> Curious, though, that they're mixing grovers and hipshot bridges



Cost savings. 

Grover tuners are dirt cheap.


----------



## Xaios

Mathemagician said:


> I wanted the RG without the word “SE7EN” on it. But it’s ok Jackson makes it now.


Bugged the shit out of me that it wasn't a 7 string, and I didn't even want that model regardless of stringedness.


----------



## Mathemagician

May as well have thrown SlipNot on there for how annoying it was.


----------



## Vyn

Mathemagician said:


> I wanted the RG without the word “SE7EN” on it. But it’s ok Jackson makes it now.



The MTM2's only had it on the trussrod cover which was easily replaceable. Having played both the MTM1 and MTM2, the 2 is/was just as good if you can find a clean example. Also a hell of a lot cheaper.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Bdtunn said:


> On music farms website, the reverb add mentions nothing of this. So I checked out the main site and after that ridiculously long description they finally list the specs.



After reading the specs it looks like I won't be getting any of them due to the fact that they are 24.75" I want 25.5" for my floyd stuff so I guess this is a GG for me rn until BC Rich releases them not in that scale length


----------



## Bdtunn

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> After reading the specs it looks like I won't be getting any of them due to the fact that they are 24.75" I want 25.5" for my floyd stuff so I guess this is a GG for me rn until BC Rich releases them not in that scale length



The shredzilla is 25.5


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Bdtunn said:


> The shredzilla is 25.5




No fr tho


----------



## Hollowway

Anyone know what the shredlilla 8 scale length is? If it’s 25.5” I’m going to give up on the human race. They’re soooo close to a home run (for me) with the Floyd on that thing, I really hope it’s 27” or more.


----------



## Bdtunn

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> No fr tho



Well damn hell ass.... 
with a name like shredzilla I assumed it had a Floyd haha I kinda just skipped over that one as I’m drooling over the stealth and to a lesser extent the warlock.


----------



## Andromalia

StrmRidr said:


> The description says the abalone is only for the 50th anniversary models. I'll wait and see but for those of us who are not fond of the abalone, it looks like our wishes will become true sooner than later.



If that's true, I'm getting a warlock. I'm spending my 40es buying the stupid stuff I couldn't afford as a teenager.


----------



## manu80

Ah toi aussi ?


----------



## lewis

Hollowway said:


> Anyone know what the shredlilla 8 scale length is? If it’s 25.5” I’m going to give up on the human race. They’re soooo close to a home run (for me) with the Floyd on that thing, I really hope it’s 27” or more.


hahahahah you just know it will be 25.5 HAHA


----------



## lewis

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I kinda miss the *Rockfield Fatass* pickup. Too bad they went out of sight. I was interested in those actives they had come up with right before vanishing



The Fatass was phenomenal!!!


----------



## trem licking

Hollowway said:


> Anyone know what the shredlilla 8 scale length is? If it’s 25.5” I’m going to give up on the human race. They’re soooo close to a home run (for me) with the Floyd on that thing, I really hope it’s 27” or more.


I agree. Hoping for 27" as the schecter I have is 28". 28 is definitely doable and probably "sounds better", but 27 is the sweet spot for both 8s and extended length with Floyds. I've not tried 25.5" with a low F# but I'm betting I could get it to sound fine... If that's what it ends up being I might do a quick experiment with a 7 string I have lying around haha


----------



## cardinal

To my eye, it's definitely not 28". I'm somewhat concerned its 25.5" as the pickups do look a bit close together. That would be a massive fail from this new BC Rich.


----------



## R34CH

I wanna know who thought "Shredzilla" was a good name... 

I hope Gojira ditches Charvel in favor of Shredzillas for a purely reptilian themed set (Where Dragons Dwell, Reptilia cover, etc.)


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Bdtunn said:


> Well damn hell ass....
> with a name like shredzilla I assumed it had a Floyd haha I kinda just skipped over that one as I’m drooling over the stealth and to a lesser extent the warlock.




If they make a shredzilla, warlock, or stealth with 25.5" and a fr I am gonna have a problem. I am gonna hold off on a guitar purchase to see what they unveil in the next 60 days because in their FB post they said a lot will be happening in 60 days, so I might as well wait than hit with a "shit I should've waited"


----------



## Hollowway

R34CH said:


> I wanna know who thought "Shredzilla" was a good name...



Probably the same group that came up with the Rich Bich and Death’r. This is BC Rich, after all.  They’re not really known for tasteful restraint.


----------



## mikernaut

The body shape looks like a BRJ Jekyll , which was a slightly better name then Shredzilla lol. But interesting that the shape is now being used by BC Rich.


----------



## possumkiller

mikernaut said:


> The body shape looks like a BRJ Jekyll , which was a slightly better name then Shredzilla lol. But interesting that the shape is now being used by BC Rich.


It's not really. The Jekyll is the front half of a Bich with a superstrat butt. The Shredzilla is more like a mix of Daemoness and RAN Crusher FT.


----------



## lewis

The only way a 25.5 scale 8 string makes sense is to tune it up haha. So its in say Drop G#/Drop A sort of thing. Then go light as hell on the top. The 8 string range is still the range regardless of tuning.
Run like 006s up there or something


----------



## Spicypickles

You would have to shorten the scale for the thin strings to keep from snapping.


----------



## spudmunkey

So it's all been kinda wine and roses so far. No red production flags, pricing isn't out of this world, and they seem to be saying that a lot of things people really want are in fact coming.

So...has any body nit-picked the photos for quality issues?

The fill around the inlay I'd say is acceptable for a 'production' guitar, but those marks running parallel to the fret don't look very good.




The edge of the binding at the end if the fretboard looks chewed up.


----------



## possumkiller

spudmunkey said:


> So it's all been kinda wine and roses so far. No red production flags, pricing isn't out of this world, and they seem to be saying that a lot of things people really want are in fact coming.
> 
> So...has any body nit-picked the photos for quality issues?
> 
> The fill around the inlay I'd say is acceptable for a 'production' guitar, but those marks running parallel to the fret don't look very good.
> 
> View attachment 71441
> 
> 
> The edge of the binding at the end if the fretboard looks chewed up.
> 
> View attachment 71442


If you want custom shop level attention to details you'll probably need to pay custom shop level prices. Small marks on the fretboard are pretty common on factory guitars and not even noticeable without zooming in under bright light. 
The end of the fretboard thing looks like the thick plastic clear coat chipped around the end of the fretboard.


----------



## Hollowway

I actually think that’s a damn good looking inlay job. We expect a lot with CNC these days, but hand made inlays often have way more filler than that.


----------



## Mathemagician

My ESP KH2 had some filler. It’s just part of buying a guitar with cool inlays IMO.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

As long as they produce quality guitars for the price and have a wide variety of ranges with differences in pricings and offerings I will be fine. Because for me right now my only options for Import guitars are Schecter Diamond Series and ESP E-II and I would like to diversify a bit more as much as possible.


----------



## manu80

wanted to wait and picked a 2019 BCR but picked a gunslinger usa instead that will be repainted in neon red tiger. Less expensive than a indo one...


----------



## Andromalia

possumkiller said:


> If you want custom shop level attention to details you'll probably need to pay custom shop level prices.



Buying cheaper food than caviar shouldn't result in you having to eat shit instead. I for once could do without all the ****ing cosmetics if the factory can't handle them. Those are above the 1K€/S price, too, I expect to get a guitar without defects at that price range. I'm not asking for unicorn oil in the tuning pegs. Just a guitar without defects. I accept it being simple, I don't want additional features at the cost of having defects on the guitar.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> Buying cheaper food than caviar shouldn't result in you having to eat shit instead. I for once could do without all the ****ing cosmetics if the factory can't handle them. Those are above the 1K€/S price, too, I expect to get a guitar without defects at that price range. I'm not asking for unicorn oil in the tuning pegs. Just a guitar without defects. I accept it being simple, I don't want additional features at the cost of having defects on the guitar.



That's not really how this works, and there's a pretty wide chasm between caviar and shit.

You pay more for consistency, not for individual specs, which aside from creating marketing tiers, doesn't effect the price as linearly as you'd think. 

There aren't small scratches on the fretboard because there's abalone binding, they're there because the factory worker is being pushed to meet a quota as far as time-per-unit, and doesn't have the time to do more sanding and polishing. 

Small defects appear on most guitars. You're just paying for the likelihood that they'll appear on the specific example you'll be buying.


----------



## Evil Chuck

manu80 said:


> wanted to wait and picked a 2019 BCR but picked a gunslinger usa instead that will be repainted in neon red tiger. Less expensive than a indo one...


I see these on Reverb all the time, but I can't pull the trigger because I don't trust that I'll actually get a USA neck and USA body.


----------



## TedintheShed

I want a guitar whose body is made from 150,000 year old petrified unicorn turds, bound is 24k gold. 

I want it for less that $1000.00.


----------



## manu80

Evil Chuck said:


> I see these on Reverb all the time, but I can't pull the trigger because I don't trust that I'll actually get a USA neck and USA body.



I get your point. Bolt neck ar e apain in the ass to deal with. i'd be paranoid in vintage strats !! This one had a lightning sky art on the body and the headstock has the" Made in usa" line but yes, it can be tricky
Even my silver serie warlock has a USA plate on the back. You see the wood difference when you try to put a screw in it. You can do it with your bare finger


----------



## eddiewarlock

These new BC Rich are made in korea by WMI. No Indonesian guitars. Not chinese. Korean.


----------



## Andromalia

> There aren't small scratches on the fretboard because there's abalone binding, they're there because the factory worker is being pushed to meet a quota as far as time-per-unit, and doesn't have the time to do more sanding and polishing.


One can be the indirect cause of the other, the QA budget being spent elsewhere.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> One can be the indirect cause of the other, the QA budget being spent elsewhere.



They don't have a QA/QC guy at every work station. It's all based on end of series evaluation and random sampling, which is why some truly heinous stuff can make it through.


----------



## Musiscience

MaxOfMetal said:


> They don't have a QA/QC guy at every work station. It's all based on end of series evaluation and random sampling, which is why some truly heinous stuff can make it through.



This. This is how QC work on production lines. When you pay a big premium for a guitar by Suhr, Anderson and etc, a big part of the price is for great QC on each guitar at almost every step of the building process. And for workers (luthiers) who actually give a crap about what they are doing and have time to ensure every detail is perfect.

That being said, some great guitars do come out of South Korea and Indonesia, it's just inconsistent. For example the last Schecter I played was an Indonesian Sun Valley in neon yellow, and it was perfect. Really changed my mind on Indo guitars and what they are capable of.


----------



## beerandbeards

Does anyone know when these are supposed to hit the marketplace?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

beerandbeards said:


> Does anyone know when these are supposed to hit the marketplace?



Some are available right now via Music Farm's Reverb.


----------



## oppgulp

Nice to see that B.C. Rich is back! I'll probably not buy any of the models they have revealed now (to much abalone) but it is a great start. I do hope they succeed in the comeback! Hopefully they will have a Bich or an Ironbird for Namm in January!

Does anybody know if there also will be a USA production line (not custom shop)?


----------



## cardinal

oppgulp said:


> Does anybody know if there also will be a USA production line (not custom shop)?



I really doubt that. That business model seems to have proven unviable recently. At best there might be small batches of USA guitars here and there, maybe production artist signatures. Even these imports are pushing past $1,500. A production USA guitar might easily top $3000, and outside of a handful of dealers (maybe Drum City Guitarland, etc,), most places aren't going to want to keep that type of thing in stock on the rack, which means the vast majority of orders will need to be "custom."

(I put "custom" in quotes because it's more likely that they'll have a limited set of options to choose from. Many shops just don't do actual full-on custom orders but instead just offer choices of paint, hardware, woods, etc.).


----------



## Mathemagician

Yeah every guitar center and Sam ash I go to stock EBMM for example. But it’s anywhere from just 1 guitar for the whole store to maybe 4 if they are gearing up for holiday sales etc. 

The $2k+ bracket is hard to get a store interested in outside of “sure things” that will sell to a walk in like PRS/Gibson/Fender.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

What sucks is it is practically impossible to find a guitar center or sam ash that has the gear that you want (at least in my experience) and to be able to play guitars of your interests. Most of the stores I have went to have had shit tons of gibsons, fenders, and PRS. Even the platinum stores still just carry higher end models of those said brands.


----------



## BusinessMan

spudmunkey said:


> So it's all been kinda wine and roses so far. No red production flags, pricing isn't out of this world, and they seem to be saying that a lot of things people really want are in fact coming.
> 
> So...has any body nit-picked the photos for quality issues?
> 
> The fill around the inlay I'd say is acceptable for a 'production' guitar, but those marks running parallel to the fret don't look very good.
> 
> View attachment 71441
> 
> 
> The edge of the binding at the end if the fretboard looks chewed up.
> 
> View attachment 71442



What are the prices? Curious about the imports of those prices are available. 

On a side note, that red 8 string looks really cool


----------



## MaxOfMetal

BusinessMan said:


> What are the prices? Curious about the imports of those prices are available.
> 
> On a side note, that red 8 string looks really cool



https://reverb.com/shop/the-music-f...ric-guitars&category=solid-body&make=b-c-rich


----------



## BusinessMan

MaxOfMetal said:


> https://reverb.com/shop/the-music-f...ric-guitars&category=solid-body&make=b-c-rich



Damn


----------



## Evil Chuck

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> What sucks is it is practically impossible to find a guitar center or sam ash that has the gear that you want (at least in my experience) and to be able to play guitars of your interests. Most of the stores I have went to have had shit tons of gibsons, fenders, and PRS. Even the platinum stores still just carry higher end models of those said brands.


Really damn annoying, isn't it?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Evil Chuck said:


> Really damn annoying, isn't it?




Yeahup. I wish I could live near a place like sweetwater because they pretty much have 80% of what I am looking to try and then some. I can't stand the fact that a lot of these stores tend to carry the same exact models and such, it is like there is no diversity amongst them in regards to inventory


----------



## Albake21

Yup it's pretty accurate with guitar center. I live right next to the Chicago one which has the biggest platinum room I've ever seen. Even with that said, about 90% of the room is still Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc. It does however have a bunch of MusicMan including about 5 JPs. Sadly only one custom Jackson and one custom Charvel. They did have an ESP EII for a while, but that recently sold.


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

Albake21 said:


> Yup it's pretty accurate with guitar center. I live right next to the Chicago one which has the biggest platinum room I've ever seen. Even with that said, about 90% of the room is still Fender, Gibson, PRS, etc. It does however have a bunch of MusicMan including about 5 JPs. Sadly only one custom Jackson and one custom Charvel. They did have an ESP EII for a while, but that recently sold.



Years ago I worked at the 777 store in South Orlando, and it had one of the biggest platinum rooms around too, probably like in Chicago. The store had a big foreign tourist customer base, so there was lots of stuff requested and sent to Brazil, UK, etc. Even still, the platinum room MOSTLY had PRS, a few Fender and Gibson, occasionally one Custom Shop Jackson or similar. Lots of Private Stock, which was fun, and ENGL, Diezel, Bogner amps. And the place attracted some of the local rock and metal bands, so no shortage or actual musicians.

But since I moved on to bigger and better things, I stopped by a few years ago after they remodeled and got rid of the commission system for employees. A lot less working there that I knew, and they only had a few core model PRS and other standard brands, overall way less stock in general in all departments. Very disappointing. There's barely a GC that carries anything worth a damn anymore. I find the same exact stock or close to it in every single store. I'll randomly find something cool in the used section, like a Strandberg Boden, or random amp, maybe a REVV G3/G4 pedal. Same with Sam Ash. It's all by the numbers now. I find cooler stuff at local stores, like in Raleigh NC where a Mom and Pop shop had a trade in Mayones Duvell and Ormsby Hype GTR.


----------



## Masoo2

I'm a bit disappointed that no Speed V was announced but I can't say I'm surprised

Does Kerry King own the shape, or has it simply just always been associated with him? iirc the ESP NV was only around during/immediately after his time with the brand, same with the Speed V and his BC Rich sigs excluding the _early_ Speed Vs



MAJ Meadows SF said:


> I find cooler stuff at local stores, like in Raleigh NC where a Mom and Pop shop had a trade in Mayones Duvell and Ormsby Hype GTR.


What store is this? Never knew of anything interesting being found in NC


----------



## Albake21

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> Same with Sam Ash. It's all by the numbers now. I find cooler stuff at local stores, like in Raleigh NC where a Mom and Pop shop had a trade in Mayones Duvell and Ormsby Hype GTR.


Sam Ash definitely caters to a more diverse crowd. They have a big Ibanez, ESP, Jackson section (sadly in the back) at least the two in the Chicagoland area. It's kinda on the cheaper side of things, but they still tend to have a couple Prestige and Japanese ESP models. You're completely right about the smaller local shops. They tend to have the stuff that we enjoy, which is really sad considering how big of a giant Guitar Center is.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The thing is, Guitar Center has over 260 locations (Sam Ash has about 50), so stocking some of the more niche stuff is a much bigger deal than smaller single-location stores. Even if they bought 100 of whatever guitars that some people think they should have, they wouldn't even be able to stock half their locations with just a single example. That's why they have to play it fairly safe. 

Though there's no reason you can't take advantage of the store. Order stuff there and check it out before taking it home.


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

Masoo2 said:


> What store is this? Never knew of anything interesting being found in NC



Harry’s Guitar Shop and Guru Guitars. Harry’s has a ton of acoustics but a few big brand electrics. Classy place, and they had the Mayones and Ormsby from trade ins. Guru has had some cool super strats and amps. I poke in there once in a while.


----------



## Aso

Masoo2 said:


> I'm a bit disappointed that no Speed V was announced but I can't say I'm surprised
> 
> Does Kerry King own the shape, or has it simply just always been associated with him? iirc the ESP NV was only around during/immediately after his time with the brand, same with the Speed V and his BC Rich sigs excluding the _early_ Speed Vs



I don't think Kerry own's the shape. He is just the most known artist using it I had no problems getting ESP to build me a custom NV last year. Not sure if there would have been push back from ESP if I asked for the reverse banana headstock though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Aso said:


> I don't think Kerry own's the shape. He is just the most known artist using it I had no problems getting ESP to build me a custom NV last year. Not sure if there would have been push back from ESP if I asked for the reverse banana headstock though.



ESP will make anything...they just might not ship it if it's going to a particular region.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Masoo2 said:


> I'm a bit disappointed that no Speed V was announced but I can't say I'm surprised
> 
> Does Kerry King own the shape, or has it simply just always been associated with him? iirc the ESP NV was only around during/immediately after his time with the brand, same with the Speed V and his BC Rich sigs excluding the _early_ Speed Vs
> 
> 
> What store is this? Never knew of anything interesting being found in NC



I think there was a place called Indoor Storm in NC. They used to stock a lot of high-end shit but IIRC it was mostly blues dad stuff. Thought it was in Raleigh but could be misremembering.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MAJ Meadows SF said:


> I find cooler stuff at local stores



One of my local stores in CA apparently is an Eastman dealer so I might stop in one day and try those out. I am sure they have other cool shit aswell


----------



## Andromalia

A lot of blues dad stuff can be used to make good metal with a few additional pedals.


----------



## possumkiller

Andromalia said:


> A lot of blues dad stuff can be used to make good metal with a few additional pedals.


Back when metal was metal, blues dad gear was all they had to choose from.


----------



## Mathemagician

possumkiller said:


> Back when metal was metal, blues dad gear was all they had to choose from.



Do I want to play through a Marshall with an OD pedal, a Hiwatt with an OD pedal or a Fender with an OD pedal?


----------



## spudmunkey

Mathemagician said:


> Do I want to play through a Marshall with an OD pedal, a Hiwatt with an OD pedal or a Fender with an OD pedal?



As opposed to a Mesa with an OD pedal, an Orange with an OD pedal, etc...?


----------



## possumkiller

Or a Vox.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> Do I want to play through a Marshall with an OD pedal, a Hiwatt with an OD pedal or a Fender with an OD pedal?



Just throw a Fortin badge on it.


----------



## Mathemagician

Lmao. I forgot how long both Mesa and Orange have been around or would have included them. 

I was just imagining 18 year olds in the late 70’s/early 80’s just having whatever their local shops had in stock to choose from. Then going “ok now let’s play thrash”.


----------



## gunch

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just throw a Fortin badge on it.



Fortin tweaked super sonic 60

6000 dollars

Ola Englund does a demo of it and he poops his pants while the zelda sound plays when he burps


----------



## cardinal

Still no specs for the 8-string (or anything)?

I did notice some commenting on their Facebook page; it was confusing, but I think BC Rich was saying that for now the Shredzilla is the only 7-string being released but that they at least have some thoughts on other shapes.


----------



## possumkiller

Has it been two weeks? Is that new website online?


----------



## gunshow86de

possumkiller said:


> Has it been two weeks? Is that new website online?



They announced today on their Instagram, that the countdown to the new website has begun. So maybe they'll have the new website out before the next Tool album is releas.... wait, we can't use that anymore.


----------



## spudmunkey

gunshow86de said:


> They announced today on their Instagram, that the countdown to the new website has begun. So maybe they'll have the new website out before the next Tool album is releas.... wait, we can't use that anymore.



Duke Nukem: Forev-- no...not that one.

Half-Life 3, maybe?

Avatar 2?


----------



## Andromalia

The next Necrophagist album is still a valid one.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## efiltsohg

I still think warlocks look wrong without the 3+3 headstock


----------



## possumkiller

They changed the upper horn, the headstock is less angled, the backside bevels aren't as pronounced.


----------



## gunshow86de

I WANT PICTURES OF IRONBIRDS!!!!


----------



## gunshow86de

That's pretty optimistic of them to think society will last until infinity, much less their company.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

gunshow86de said:


> That's pretty optimistic of them to think society will last until infinity, much less their company.



Maybe it's strategy.

If they don't actually release anything, how are they going to go down in flames again? Think about it.


----------



## Hollowway

The longer it takes for that 8 with the Floyd to come out, the more the abalone is getting to me. Hurry up, BCR, before I come to my senses!


----------



## spudmunkey

possumkiller said:


> They changed the upper horn, the headstock is less angled, the backside bevels aren't as pronounced.



The upper fret access is also more deeply contoured, and the upper horn is reshaped to give more room for upper fret... er... thumb access, I guess.


----------



## TheDandy

They confirmed that there will be Mockingbird and Warlock models without abalone in some Instagram comments


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## possumkiller

Oooooooooo binding around pickup cavities! I never would have thought of that.


----------



## mikernaut

The execution of the ideas is kinda "lol" in this specific build, but I actually kinda like the "light up" logo on the headstock idea.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

all this abalone binding is disgusting


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## possumkiller

Here's hoping for an Ironbird with the actual Ironbird headstock!


----------



## possumkiller

KnightBrolaire said:


> all this abalone binding is disgusting


Ikr... it's obscene and vulgar. Stuff like that should have to be censored or posted under a spoiler tag.


----------



## BrutalRob

@TheDandy thanks for the info since I am not on instagram. Been really hoping to see something without all that ugly abalone.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

As it has been stated guys, the abalone in mass on these models is to commemorate 50 years of BCR. Yes it is tacky, but I do not think it will be a permanent thing and if the new ownership is listening like they say they are, they will take it to heart.


----------



## Andromalia

possumkiller said:


> Oooooooooo binding around pickup cavities! I never would have thought of that.



Someone should tell them that they also should add abalone binding to the trem cavity.


----------



## cardinal

Why redesign the Warlock body? Seems like extra work for something no one wanted them to do. Makes me worried about the rest of this.


----------



## BrutalRob

Actually I like the redesign better


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Why redesign the Warlock body? Seems like extra work for something no one wanted them to do. Makes me worried about the rest of this.



I think "redesign" is a little much. 

They smoothed out the heel and shrunk the bevels _on the back_ a hair, for the most part.


----------



## BrutalRob

yeah you are right. though those two aspects you mentioned don´t matter much to me. The slightly bigger cut away on the upper horn just looks better to me.


----------



## cardinal

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think "redesign" is a little much.
> 
> They smoothed out the heel and shrunk the bevels _on the back_ a hair, for the most part.



The top horns are different? I don't like it. They need to get off my lawn!!!

Though that brings up an almost existential question: better to have a Warlock with somewhat odd looking top horns or no Warlock at all...


----------



## Mathemagician

The redesigned back of the warlock is how every neckthrough should be sculpted imo. Solars are similar.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> The top horns are different?



It's hard to tell as the comparison photos aren't both taken straight on, and one guitar has purfling and one has actual binding.

The photo from the back doesn't have both guitars centered the same way, so it's making one look longer as neither are full frame.


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

I'm just looking forward to Stealths and Ironbirds, hopefully some USA models. Both of those models typically don't have a metric shit ton of abalone, or any at all.


----------



## StrmRidr

I am very hopeful for this relauch. I used to be a big BC Rich fan back in the day. I just really want the website to launch so we can get a peek at some models without 5lbs of Abalone on them.


----------



## stuz719

Ignitor, maybe?


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

stuz719 said:


> Ignitor, maybe?



SO MUCH YES!


----------



## spudmunkey

cardinal said:


> Why redesign the Warlock body? Seems like extra work for something no one wanted them to do. Makes me worried about the rest of this.



According to their social media, the company has new leadership, and the current crop of folks are "shredders". At least some of these updates seem to be to help with that: the more shaved neck "heel" and better upper fret access, etc.

It's also possible that, since they were wanting to add new features, that it just made more sense to re-draw all of the models from scratch with newer, more parametric methods to make future modifications/updates easier (so that each new variation didn't require doing much "by hand"), and while they were at it, streamlined the inline headstock, improving the neck heel, and giving more room for upper fret access. Maybe. I have no idea.


----------



## manu80

love the led idea on the V !
so we spoke about people taking over the company as musicians or something back then, we still don't know who they are ?


----------



## Viginez

manu80 said:


> love the led idea on the V !
> so we spoke about people taking over the company as musicians or something back then, we still don't know who they are ?


i've only heard it's a 3 person ownership


----------



## zappatton2

stuz719 said:


> Ignitor, maybe?


I always thought the Ignitor looked perfect as a 7-stringer, a production 7 would be awesome. That said, there is a certain mystique to a design that has only ever been available through the custom shop.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

StrmRidr said:


> I am very hopeful for this relauch. I used to be a big BC Rich fan back in the day. I just really want the website to launch so we can get a peek at some models without 5lbs of Abalone on them.




I aint no BCR fan, but I am heavily interested in this relaunch.



MAJ Meadows SF said:


> SO MUCH YES!



I would prefer a new beast model. That would be killer.



manu80 said:


> so we spoke about people taking over the company as musicians or something back then, we still don't know who they are ?



Slash at all? I wouldn't be surprised if he has a stake in the new ownership.


----------



## Cynicanal

cardinal said:


> Why redesign the Warlock body? Seems like extra work for something no one wanted them to do. Makes me worried about the rest of this.


I'm not a fan of the thought of redesigning a classic, but I understand all of the changes in this case; the redesigned top horn allows them to push the strap button further up, which should make it balance better. The deeper top cutaway allows better upper fret access if you want to go thumb-on-top for big bends/vibrato. The new neck joint's advantages are obvious.


----------



## stevexc

Cynicanal said:


> I'm not a fan of the thought of redesigning a classic, but I understand all of the changes in this case; the redesigned top horn allows them to push the strap button further up, which should make it balance better. The deeper top cutaway allows better upper fret access if you want to go thumb-on-top for big bends/vibrato. The new neck joint's advantages are obvious.




IMO this is how a redesign SHOULD be done when trying to stay close to the classic. You're not going to notice any aesthetic differences unless you compare it directly to an older one, it still looks like a Warlock, not an imitation of one.


----------



## spudmunkey

So, what do we think...satin-finished necks, or tung oil?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I wiIl do terrible unspeakable acts if they come out with a 7 string ironbird.


----------



## gunshow86de

KnightBrolaire said:


> I wiIl do terrible unspeakable acts if they come out with a 7 string ironbird.



This or an Erik Rutan sig based on his red Ironbird.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Something to look forward to


----------



## Hollowway

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> View attachment 71883
> 
> 
> Something to look forward to


 Hot damn, if they make that in a Floyd 8, I will be one happy dude! (Though, I still feel like these are designs best suited to about 8-9 years ago. Spalted maple, abalone, flat top, etc. But hey, I’m glad it’s not poplar burl!)


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hollowway said:


> Hot damn, if they make that in a Floyd 8, I will be one happy dude! (Though, I still feel like these are designs best suited to about 8-9 years ago. Spalted maple, abalone, flat top, etc. But hey, I’m glad it’s not poplar burl!)



make it in the trans red burst quilt 7 with a 26.5" scale length and i am putting a schecter aside. For real, I dont give a fuck how much tacky ass abalone it may have on it, they can take my money as long as it is a quality instrument.

And honestly personally IDC about trends and such. If I wanna rock something extreme like a hot pink charvel I will. It is 80s af, but who cares? That is just my take on it.


----------



## tedtan

manu80 said:


> love the led idea on the V !
> so we spoke about people taking over the company as musicians or something back then, we still don't know who they are ?



I've heard rumors that Kerry King may be involved, but I certainly don't consider him a shredder.




JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Slash at all? I wouldn't be surprised if he has a stake in the new ownership.



Slash definitely has a soft spot for some of the old BC Rich models, plus he probably has the money to get involved in this type of venture, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he's involved in some way.

But I don't consider him a shredder, either, so who is the shredder that is supposedly involved? The closest I can come up with to a shredder who played BC Rich back in the day is David Chastain, but he's pretty obscure at this point.


----------



## Rosal76

tedtan said:


> But I don't consider him a shredder, either, so who is the shredder that is supposedly involved?



Maybe Tony Macalpine or C.C. Deville? But I don't think those 2 care what B.C. Rich does nowdays.


----------



## Randy

tedtan said:


> The closest I can come up with to a shredder who played BC Rich back in the day is David Chastain, but he's pretty obscure at this point.



Not at all speculating he's involved at all but as far as BC Rich shredders, Tony Macalpline comes to mind and he had some HOT fucking guitars


----------



## Seabeast2000

tedtan said:


> I've heard rumors that Kerry King may be involved, but I certainly don't consider him a shredder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slash definitely has a soft spot for some of the old BC Rich models, plus he probably has the money to get involved in this type of venture, so I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he's involved in some way.
> 
> But I don't consider him a shredder, either, so who is the shredder that is supposedly involved? The closest I can come up with to a shredder who played BC Rich back in the day is David Chastain, but he's pretty obscure at this point.



You guys are old or just well studied. Brings a tear to my eye.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

gunshow86de said:


> This or an Erik Rutan sig based on his red Ironbird.



I was thinking more like a Slime Green body with maple fretboard/ black inlays, but that is also acceptable.


----------



## beerandbeards

Give me Stealths, crackle finishes, and neon colors. Embrace the heritage but don’t shortcut the quality and BC Rich will be competitive again.

Make BC Rich Great Again


----------



## Aliascent

gunshow86de said:


> This or an Erik Rutan sig based on his red Ironbird.



This but single humbucker, like the early 2000s Space Face Ironbird (which is a nice guitar btw).


----------



## beerandbeards




----------



## JustinRhoads1980

beerandbeards said:


> View attachment 71913



Im digging this for real. MBGA


----------



## tedtan

Rosal76 said:


> Maybe Tony Macalpine or C.C. Deville? But I don't think those 2 care what B.C. Rich does nowdays.





Randy said:


> Not at all speculating he's involved at all but as far as BC Rich shredders, Tony Macalpline comes to mind and he had some HOT fucking guitars.




Massive brain fart here! I don't know how I forgot about Tony - he's got to be the most prominent shredder who played BC Rich back in the day. Pretty much everyone else I can think of played metal of some type: thrash, hair, etc.


----------



## Rosal76

beerandbeards said:


> View attachment 71913



Correction: "Make B.C. Rich affordable again".


----------



## Rosal76

tedtan said:


> Massive brain fart here! I don't know how I forgot about Tony - he's got to be the most prominent shredder who played BC Rich back in the day. Pretty much everyone else I can think of played metal of some type: thrash, hair, etc.



Paul Gilbert played a Mockingbird back in the day and John Petrucci claimed he owned/played a B.C. Rich but I don't know what model he had. Obviously, we really can't include Paul and John because they don't have a strong connection with B.C. Rich like Tony MacAlpine but, IMHO, their shredding skills are undeniable.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Petrucci did indeed use a BC Rich up until 1989/early 1990.


----------



## gunshow86de

beerandbeards said:


> View attachment 71913



I feel like there's a joke to be made here about Mexico not sending their best body and neck blanks.


----------



## spudmunkey

The highest profile B.C. Rich player I was ever aware of, except maybe Slash, was Jessie Katsopolis, of Jessie and the Rippers. And the other guitarist, Bob Loblaw.

.












And then this fuckin' guy...


----------



## tedtan

Rosal76 said:


> we really can't include Paul and John because they don't have a strong connection with B.C. Rich like Tony MacAlpine



Yeah, a lot of people have played them here and there, but that strong connection with BC Rich is what I'm having trouble with.


----------



## gunshow86de

spudmunkey said:


> The highest profile B.C. Rich player I was ever aware of, except maybe Slash, was Jessie Katsopolis, of Jessie and the Rippers. And the other guitarist, Bob Loblaw.



/Googles John Stamos net worth

I know you're joking, but of all the folks mentioned so far, he's the only one that actually has the capital (besides Slash, maybe Kerry King but that's a stretch).


----------



## possumkiller

Dave Mustaine played a Bich. 
James Hetfield played a Wraith.
Jon Schaffer
Ihsahn and Samoth


----------



## spudmunkey

gunshow86de said:


> /Googles John Stamos net worth



Have mercy...

No, wait...only $20million? I'd have thought higher.

Anyway, I was joking about him being the buyer, but no joke, he was actually the 1st person I ever saw play a BC rich. The acoustic with the pointy inline head stock was what caught my eye the 1st time.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

The BCR acoustic is about the tackiest thing I have seen.....


but I also kinda like it


----------



## Mathemagician

“It’s dumb”

That’s 90% of the fun.


----------



## spudmunkey

Mathemagician said:


> “It’s dumb”
> 
> That’s 90% of the fun.



Wait, how has BC Rich never put that on a t-shirt?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

The same can be said of W.A.S.P. during some eras, but they're a ton of fun regardless.


----------



## spudmunkey

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> The BCR acoustic is about the tackiest thing I have seen.....



Honestly, looking at it again, I wouldn't hate it so much if it were the new, more streamlined BCR headstock.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> Honestly, looking at it again, I wouldn't hate it so much if it were the new, more streamlined BCR headstock.



I think it is growing on me the more I look at in confusion and repulse, but yet with curiosity.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Did yall skip the jaguar/jazzmaster looking BCR? Now that would be a fucking killer model. Would love to see it with a floyd, you dont see to many jags with a floyd


----------



## Viginez

possumkiller said:


> Dave Mustaine played a Bich.
> James Hetfield played a Wraith.
> Jon Schaffer
> Ihsahn and Samoth


silenoz too


----------



## beerandbeards

Viginez said:


> silenoz too



Trey Azagthoth has that red Iron Bird


----------



## MrWulf

https://reverb.com/item/26803503-b-c-rich-stealth-legacy-black




https://reverb.com/item/26803472-b-c-rich-shredzilla-extreme-trans-black




https://reverb.com/item/26803535-b-c-rich-warlock-extreme-pearl-white





Some more new BC Rich listings. Note that it said the ship date is Sep 30 2019.


----------



## possumkiller

MrWulf said:


> https://reverb.com/item/26803503-b-c-rich-stealth-legacy-black
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/26803472-b-c-rich-shredzilla-extreme-trans-black
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/26803535-b-c-rich-warlock-extreme-pearl-white
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some more new BC Rich listings. Note that it said the ship date is Sep 30 2019.


Give me that warlock with the original Ironbird body and original Ironbird headstock minus the binding.


----------



## Viginez

beerandbeards said:


> Trey Azagthoth has that red Iron Bird


of course, hoffman brothers too, they had some sick ones


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Mentioning Trey is cheating because he's used literally everything.


----------



## possumkiller

So did they say something about no more bolt on guitars? Does this mean no Gunslingers?


----------



## gunshow86de

#GOALS


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Someone willingly installed a Washburn Wonderbar onto their guitar?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Someone willingly installed a Washburn Wonderbar onto their guitar?



HAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. That made me chuckle a little too hard.



possumkiller said:


> So did they say something about no more bolt on guitars? Does this mean no Gunslingers?



I think what they mean is just everything being an import will be neck thru. I am sure they will be coming out with the gunslingers as a bolt on because I remember reading a comment of someone asking about the gunslingers coming back and they replied yes, so I would think they'd carry on the tradition of having that model be bolt on.


----------



## Andromalia

gunshow86de said:


> /Googles John Stamos net worth
> 
> I know you're joking, but of all the folks mentioned so far, he's the only one that actually has the capital (besides Slash, maybe Kerry King but that's a stretch).


You know, investors don't have to fork the capital in physical cash. Most of them would take a loan and leverage it through BC rich revenues.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

For all of you interested in the new models, seems red blanket guitars has a few of em on hand, including the 50th anniversary models and..... the ironbird.

https://www.redblanketguitars.com/categories/BC-Rich-10_451.html


----------



## Evil Chuck

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> For all of you interested in the new models, seems red blanket guitars has a few of em on hand, including the 50th anniversary models and..... the ironbird.
> 
> https://www.redblanketguitars.com/categories/BC-Rich-10_451.html


That Ironbird is the Custom Shop they did recently. Still waiting on the pleb version .


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Evil Chuck said:


> That Ironbird is the Custom Shop they did recently. Still waiting on the pleb version .




I need some guitars in a 25.5" scale length. LP style lengths aren't gonna do it for me.


----------



## Science_Penguin

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Someone willingly installed a Washburn Wonderbar onto their guitar?



It's like Kahler. Only a select few people on Earth can make them function properly. And those people are warlocks whose sacrificed axes were deemed worthy by the tremolo gods.

At least, that's about the only explanation I have for Arjen Lucassen and Dave Sharman.


----------



## Spicypickles

While hilarious, that post is false! Kahler’s are pretty easy to setup.


----------



## cardinal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> For all of you interested in the new models, seems red blanket guitars has a few of em on hand, including the 50th anniversary models and..... the ironbird.
> 
> https://www.redblanketguitars.com/categories/BC-Rich-10_451.html



Some nice pics of the 8-string with the Floyd:










If I had to guess, that is NOT a 25.5" scale as feared. It does not look as long as the 28" scale of the Schecter C8FR, but it's hard to judge from just pictures. Not sure why it's taking so long to release basic specs. I suppose if I was actually at risk of buying it, I could just call them and ask them to measure.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

cardinal said:


> Some nice pics of the 8-string with the Floyd:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I had to guess, that is NOT a 25.5" scale as feared. It does not look as long as the 28" scale of the Schecter C8FR, but it's hard to judge from just pictures. Not sure why it's taking so long to release basic specs. I suppose if I was actually at risk of buying it, I could just call them and ask them to measure.



You thinking 26.5"?

I hope it isnt smaller, that would be fuckin retarded


----------



## spudmunkey

The purfling on the 8-string fretboard makes them look even wider than they normally would.


----------



## cardinal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> You thinking 26.5"?
> 
> I hope it isnt smaller, that would be fuckin retarded



I kind of assume it's 27", but I easily could be wrong. I agree that anything shorter than 26.5" would be a terrible fail. It would be so bad that it's hard to imagine, really, but hey, it's BC Rich.


----------



## spudmunkey

Magnetic truss rod cover is kind of nice. Although...I do think head-stock truss rod adjustment is a bit "old school" for something that's suppose to be so "cutting edge" as this new model is supposed to be.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> Magnetic truss rod cover is kind of nice. Although...I do think head-stock truss rod adjustment is a bit "old school" for something that's suppose to be so "cutting edge" as this new model is supposed to be.



Yeah i agree. But i honestly could care less about that. It seems most of the models right now that are 6s are 24 5/8 scale length which fuckin sucks. I want the 25 1/2 for the warlocks and Vs! That black V looks dope but the scale length is an immediate turn off.



cardinal said:


> I kind of assume it's 27", but I easily could be wrong. I agree that anything shorter than 26.5" would be a terrible fail. It would be so bad that it's hard to imagine, really, but hey, it's BC Rich.



If it is less than that i would be disappointed tbh. I know some brands have 25.5" 7s, but from what i have heard as far as 7 strings go, 26.5" is a happy medium. any longer and the high e is a little slinky. Any shorter and then you have issues with the low e.

I will be buying my first 7 next year around march and I have my eyes on a Schecter SLS Elite c1 fr7. It is either that or a 7 from BCR that has an appropiate scale length


----------



## cardinal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yeah i agree. But i honestly could care less about that. It seems most of the models right now that are 6s are 24 5/8 scale length which fuckin sucks. I want the 25 1/2 for the warlocks and Vs! That black V looks dope but the scale length is an immediate turn off.
> 
> 
> 
> If it is less than that i would be disappointed tbh. I know some brands have 25.5" 7s, but from what i have heard as far as 7 strings go, 26.5" is a happy medium. any longer and the high e is a little slinky. Any shorter and then you have issues with the low e.
> 
> I will be buying my first 7 next year around march and I have my eyes on a Schecter SLS Elite c1 fr7. It is either that or a 7 from BCR that has an appropiate scale length



The link I posted to was an 8-string. There hasn't been a production 8-string at 25.5" scale for a really long time, and really for good reason. Low B does fine at 25.5" scale for most people, but man F# at 25.5" is tough to work with.

I've had 7-strings with scale lengths anywhere from 24.75" up to 27". They all work, at least for low B, just pick the string gauge that works for you. I usually use .010s on 25.5" and under and .009s on 27".


----------



## Rosal76

cardinal said:


> Some nice pics of the 8-string with the Floyd:



Their new 8 string guitar looks cool but it would have been awesome if they made a import version of that 8 string, U.S. custom shop, Beast guitar they made years ago. The one The Music Farm had. That thing was ridiculously huge!!!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

If it helps, this is what an 8-string with a 25.5'' scale length looks like.





Pickup spacing is narrower than the BCR, so it's def either 26.5'' - 27'', which is understandable for a shredder-oriented 8-string.


----------



## spudmunkey

nvrmnd


----------



## Mathemagician

Is that a mock-up? Who got them to actually build an 8string Warrior?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Mathemagician said:


> Is that a mock-up? Who got them to actually build an 8string Warrior?




It is just a dream. Dreams that will never be fulfilled.


----------



## mastapimp

Mathemagician said:


> Is that a mock-up? Who got them to actually build an 8string Warrior?


It's a Pablo Santana build. He's no longer with Jackson so you're unlikely to see any more of his ridiculous NAMM builds like this warrior.


----------



## Vyn

cardinal said:


> Some nice pics of the 8-string with the Floyd:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I had to guess, that is NOT a 25.5" scale as feared. It does not look as long as the 28" scale of the Schecter C8FR, but it's hard to judge from just pictures. Not sure why it's taking so long to release basic specs. I suppose if I was actually at risk of buying it, I could just call them and ask them to measure.



So I got bored and went to Red Blanket guitars website and eye-balled this against the red warlock they had on their page (was the closet to the same scale as the 8 string). Using a ruler on the monitor (Yeah, work is slow today) I measured from the nut to the 12th fret and came up with 70mm for the Warlock and 75mm for the 8. Assuming the Warlock is 25.5, the maths comes out at the 8 being around 27.4" in scale length so my money would be on 27" or 27.5". probably 27" as that seems to be more of a common standard.

Also did the maths just incase the warlock I was looking at was actually 24.75" (which is unlikely) and the maths came out at 26.4" (so probably 26.5")

TL;DR - It's probably 27" scale.


----------



## Merrekof

So we don't know who is behind the BC Rich reincarnation. Imagine the guy(s) or girl(s) (who knows, it's 2019) behind this is an SSO member, chukling and laughing while watching this thread..


----------



## Andromalia

If Jr is in, you bet they want to keep that a secret.


----------



## possumkiller

Andromalia said:


> If Jr is in, you bet they want to keep that a secret.


Maybe that's what Black Friday was all about. Crowdfunding his buyout of BCR.


----------



## Viginez

Andromalia said:


> If Jr is in, you bet they want to keep that a secret.


some official posted on another forum that is definitely not him involved
at some point there will be an official statement
it also doesn't really make any sense, because the investments are surely pretty high.


----------



## Vyn

Viginez said:


> some official posted on another forum that is definitely not him involved
> at some point there will be an official statement
> it also doesn't really make any sense, because the investments are surely pretty high.



Whoever is behind this has a lot of capital behind them or the ability to get a large amount of finance. Getting an import run done alone is dumb money, then there's all the marketing/promotional material/webpages/admin bs/etc. I imagine anyone willing to invest that amount of mulla would have researched and been well aware of Jr's antics.


----------



## sharedEQ

Merrekof said:


> So we don't know who is behind the BC Rich reincarnation. Imagine the guy(s) or girl(s) (who knows, it's 2019) behind this is an SSO member, chukling and laughing while watching this thread..



Lita Ford!


----------



## sharedEQ

Vyn said:


> Whoever is behind this has a lot of capital behind them or the ability to get a large amount of finance. Getting an import run done alone is dumb money, then there's all the marketing/promotional material/webpages/admin bs/etc. I imagine anyone willing to invest that amount of mulla would have researched and been well aware of Jr's antics.


How did Chapman or Ola do it?

If they do it, anyone with a modicum of fame who was good with their money can also do it.


----------



## Merrekof

sharedEQ said:


> How did Chapman or Ola do it?
> 
> If they do it, anyone with a modicum of fame who was good with their money can also do it.



I believe Ola had Washburn behind him, this is just speculation from me. I don't know if that indeed is the case. 

Chapman might have Andertons behind him, who knows? I'm just guessing. 

Anyone got more on this?


----------



## Randy

Vyn said:


> Whoever is behind this has a lot of capital behind them or the ability to get a large amount of finance. Getting an import run done alone is dumb money, then there's all the marketing/promotional material/webpages/admin bs/etc.





sharedEQ said:


> How did Chapman or Ola do it?



Depends on how you define "dumb money" tbh.

There was a thread on here many moons ago with this weird hip-hop mogul looking white guy that had a run of 7 and 8 string guitars that looked identical to Agile (I think one was an Intrepid) but with his own branding on them. Likely made in this same factory.

In my experience as an entrepreneur, the buy in for that kinda stuff is honestly usually a lot smaller than you'd think but more than is considered practical for a guy on the street. So like, WMI doesn't want you to buy 1000 or even 100 units to get a run going, you might be looking at like... 50, and you're paying factory direct pricing, plus a lot of the hardware/electronics aren't brand name items or even the ones that are, like Ola's Solar Seymour Duncans, are just licensed and private label built by the factory and don't actually pass through the company's main QC or storage/warehousing.

So the actual cost out of pocket on a $1000 guitar (before you get into marketing, flying back and forth to the factory to inspect production, etc) could be $500-ish, and at a run of 50 guitars that's "only" $25,000 in hard cost for tangible items. You put a lot of sweat equity into marketing, making the website and chain for selling and shipping the guitars or dealing with returns that's frontloaded, so the $25,000 (hypothetical) pricetag isn't cheap but it's not prohibitively expensive, just that you have a LOT of work to do whether you're selling 10 guitars or 10,000 guitars that you'd have to consider how many units you'll have to sell and how long you'll have to operate to recoup the intangible investment.

But to the original point, I don't think you need some enormous pile of cash to get them to make you the guitars, no. And if you have partners or your own experience/contacts to help along other parts of the process (like website management or volume shipping access), there's a lot of the intangible costs you can cut out. Ola and Chapman also have the benefit of a big social media footprint and substantial contacts in the industry to "guarantee" sales and things like endorsements that don't necessarily cost them out of pocket whereas a Joe Schmo, it would.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Vyn said:


> So I got bored and went to Red Blanket guitars website and eye-balled this against the red warlock they had on their page (was the closet to the same scale as the 8 string). Using a ruler on the monitor (Yeah, work is slow today) I measured from the nut to the 12th fret and came up with 70mm for the Warlock and 75mm for the 8. Assuming the Warlock is 25.5, the maths comes out at the 8 being around 27.4" in scale length so my money would be on 27" or 27.5". probably 27" as that seems to be more of a common standard.
> 
> Also did the maths just incase the warlock I was looking at was actually 24.75" (which is unlikely) and the maths came out at 26.4" (so probably 26.5")
> 
> TL;DR - It's probably 27" scale.




If you were looking at the warlocks from their site, they are all 24 5/8 which is shorter than 24.75". I just hope they make a 7 of the 8 in a 26.5" scale and I'm set.



Viginez said:


> some official posted on another forum that is definitely not him involved
> at some point there will be an official statement
> it also doesn't really make any sense, because the investments are surely pretty high.



Whoever is behind this revamp surely has a lot of faith in the brand and the guitar community to support this revamp.

Hopefully in the official statement we can find out who is behind this.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Vyn said:


> Jr's antics



What do you mean?? Did I miss out on something?


----------



## Merrekof

Randy said:


> Depends on how you define "dumb money" tbh.
> 
> There was a thread on here many moons ago with this weird hip-hop mogul looking white guy that had a run of 7 and 8 string guitars that looked identical to Agile (I think one was an Intrepid) but with his own branding on them. Likely made in this same factory.
> 
> In my experience as an entrepreneur, the buy in for that kinda stuff is honestly usually a lot smaller than you'd think but more than is considered practical for a guy on the street. So like, WMI doesn't want you to buy 1000 or even 100 units to get a run going, you might be looking at like... 50, and you're paying factory direct pricing, plus a lot of the hardware/electronics aren't brand name items or even the ones that are, like Ola's Solar Seymour Duncans, are just licensed and private label built by the factory and don't actually pass through the company's main QC or storage/warehousing.
> 
> So the actual cost out of pocket on a $1000 guitar (before you get into marketing, flying back and forth to the factory to inspect production, etc) could be $500-ish, and at a run of 50 guitars that's "only" $25,000 in hard cost for tangible items. You put a lot of sweat equity into marketing, making the website and chain for selling and shipping the guitars or dealing with returns that's frontloaded, so the $25,000 (hypothetical) pricetag isn't cheap but it's not prohibitively expensive, just that you have a LOT of work to do whether you're selling 10 guitars or 10,000 guitars that you'd have to consider how many units you'll have to sell and how long you'll have to operate to recoup the intangible investment.
> 
> But to the original point, I don't think you need some enormous pile of cash to get them to make you the guitars, no. And if you have partners or your own experience/contacts to help along other parts of the process (like website management or volume shipping access), there's a lot of the intangible costs you can cut out. Ola and Chapman also have the benefit of a big social media footprint and substantial contacts in the industry to "guarantee" sales and things like endorsements that don't necessarily cost them out of pocket whereas a Joe Schmo, it would.



Indeed, there are multiple big music stores that have their "own brand".
There was this big store that had GLX pedals under the name Cool. Exactly thesame pedals. Probably cost them next to nothing to add their name on it. It is not that hard or expensive, at least if you are an entrepeneur or shop owner.


----------



## Randy

Merrekof said:


> Indeed, there are multiple big music stores that have their "own brand".
> There was this bug store that had GLX pedals under the name Cool. Exactly thesame pedal.



That's the reason why you see multiple companies roll out things like poplar burl with blue/green bursts or abalone purfling or black nickel hardware all at once.

Just like every nickel and dime grocery store can have their milk or cereal private label made for them, the guitar companies contracting through WMI or other mega factories are essentially doing the same. The shapes change because it's not hard to change the CNC programming from one run to the next, but the features, lumber, finishes, hardware, etc. are homogenized across the board based on what the factory is tooled up to do and they give you those parameters to work in.

I'm sure somebody like WMI has something like a price/feature sheet these guys work off of, and they'll see stuff that adds a lot bling for minimal upcharge, etc. And if you stay in the parameters, the minimum units and the cost stay low (we've seen this in what could and couldn't be added to Axe Palace short runs, for example) , if you decide you want something they're wildly not tooled for, they'll either say no or want a guarantee of more units to make it worth their trouble.


----------



## Viginez

sharedEQ said:


> How did Chapman or Ola do it?
> 
> If they do it, anyone with a modicum of fame who was good with their money can also do it.


the question is, if it were so easy, why isn't the case then?
those two have thousands of followers/fans, which helps alot.


----------



## Seabeast2000

No idea, Hanser seems to be the parent company of Kustom which seems to own "B.C. Rich".
Kustom out of Cincinnatti (all to the best of my knowledge), does make other stuff, etc. They made my Schecter USA amp. Isn't there another mystery builder out of Cincinnatti for Washburn USA? HMMM? (scratches chin and ponders)
All speculation/armchair fun. Someone here probably knows more about this....

https://trademark.trademarkia.com/bc-rich-75777394.html

http://www.hansermusicgroup.com/


----------



## stevexc

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> What do you mean?? Did I miss out on something?



oh boy did you ever

https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...-for-updates-for-by-customers-ad-free.138377/


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

stevexc said:


> oh boy did you ever
> 
> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...-for-updates-for-by-customers-ad-free.138377/




Seems like a shit show brah


----------



## stevexc

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Seems like a shit show brah



it was THE shit show


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The906 said:


> No idea, Hanser seems to be the parent company of Kustom which seems to own "B.C. Rich".
> Kustom out of Cincinnatti (all to the best of my knowledge), does make other stuff, etc. They made my Schecter USA amp. Isn't there another mystery builder out of Cincinnatti for Washburn USA? HMMM? (scratches chin and ponders)
> All speculation/armchair fun. Someone here probably knows more about this....
> 
> https://trademark.trademarkia.com/bc-rich-75777394.html
> 
> http://www.hansermusicgroup.com/



I think Hanser sold BCR to the (former) VP of SBMM awhile back. The first revival that went nowhere.


----------



## Damon67

Hello, Damon from Red Blanket Guitars here. The one in question is indeed 25.5" however, the new ones coming out in the fall will be 26.5".

The one on the RBG site is the prototype, and I think it was done before even a 6 string was completed. There are many unique things about this particular one. Going forward, there will be no diamond inlays, the Fluence pickups were added after the fact at the factory (the cavities were carved by hand to fit them), and the recessed Dunlop strap buttons are being replaced by standard Schaller locking buttons.

I know some folks like a 25.5 with a Floyd, this will be the only one. We have all the new ones on order too... 130+ guitars in all are on order with BCR currently. We're pretty excited about the return and are throwing our full support at the brand.

We should see a 7 string or two in the next couple weeks too, stay tuned.

Cheers!


----------



## cardinal

Damon67 said:


> Hello, Damon from Red Blanket Guitars here. The one in question is indeed 25.5" however, the new ones coming out in the fall will be 26.5".
> 
> The one on the RBG site is the prototype, and I think it was done before even a 6 string was completed. There are many unique things about this particular one. Going forward, there will be no diamond inlays, the Fluence pickups were added after the fact at the factory (the cavities were carved by hand to fit them), and the recessed Dunlop strap buttons are being replaced by standard Schaller locking buttons.
> 
> I know some folks like a 25.5 with a Floyd, this will be the only one. We have all the new ones on order too... 130+ guitars in all are on order with BCR currently. We're pretty excited about the return and are throwing our full support at the brand.
> 
> We should see a 7 string or two in the next couple weeks too, stay tuned.
> 
> Cheers!



Thanks Damon!


----------



## Vyn

Damon67 said:


> Hello, Damon from Red Blanket Guitars here. The one in question is indeed 25.5" however, the new ones coming out in the fall will be 26.5".
> 
> The one on the RBG site is the prototype, and I think it was done before even a 6 string was completed. There are many unique things about this particular one. Going forward, there will be no diamond inlays, the Fluence pickups were added after the fact at the factory (the cavities were carved by hand to fit them), and the recessed Dunlop strap buttons are being replaced by standard Schaller locking buttons.
> 
> I know some folks like a 25.5 with a Floyd, this will be the only one. We have all the new ones on order too... 130+ guitars in all are on order with BCR currently. We're pretty excited about the return and are throwing our full support at the brand.
> 
> We should see a 7 string or two in the next couple weeks too, stay tuned.
> 
> Cheers!



Well fuck, I was completely wrong  Thanks for the information!

25.5" 8, could have some serious fun with a high A or high G!


----------



## sharedEQ

Merrekof said:


> I believe Ola had Washburn behind him, this is just speculation from me. I don't know if that indeed is the case.
> 
> Chapman might have Andertons behind him, who knows? I'm just guessing.
> 
> Anyone got more on this?



Is solar guitars just a branch of washburn, like evh is fender?

Did some genius at washburn get the idea for ola to be the face of their new line of guitars? Is he really just a figurehead, social media influencer pretending to run a guitar company? 

Or is he the real deal? I figured he negotiated builds with some factories and that he designed the guitars and handles marketing. but when I think about it I realize thats probably too much for one person to do.


----------



## gunch

sharedEQ said:


> Is solar guitars just a branch of washburn, like evh is fender?
> 
> Did some genius at washburn get the idea for ola to be the face of their new line of guitars? Is he really just a figurehead, social media influencer pretending to run a guitar company?
> 
> Or is he the real deal? I figured he negotiated builds with some factories and that he designed the guitars and handles marketing. but when I think about it I realize thats probably too much for one person to do.



Ola had a signature Washburn, Washburn kind of went dark so he took his design and went straight to Indo WMI to make his own brand


----------



## spudmunkey

Plus, I'm sure he's got people to negotiate on his behalf, etc.


----------



## sharedEQ

gunch said:


> Ola had a signature Washburn, Washburn kind of went dark so he took his design and went straight to Indo WMI to make his own brand



That's kinda funny. I wonder if he had to pay them the rights for the design?

Thats kinda like standing on a street corner when a guy pulls up in a porsche, has a heart attack and dies. So you hop in the Porsche and keep driving. Carry on!


----------



## stevexc

sharedEQ said:


> Thats kinda like standing on a street corner when a guy pulls up in a porsche, has a heart attack and dies. So you hop in the Porsche and keep driving. Carry on!



It's more like you get Porsche to build you cars, then Porsche dies, so you get someone else to build you a similar car elsewhere


----------



## Andromalia

Unlikely, he brought the design from Strictly7 to begin with. It has only received minor modifications since.
I guess Ola's success is a mix of talent, networking, work and being at the right place at the right time.
Talent isn't enough by itself, as can attest the best potential piano player in the world, born in the jungles of Burundi in 220 BC.


----------



## spudmunkey

He might have also written in to any contracts that the design is his to keep. Brian Bromberg has has several different companies make his bass before Kiesel. Each one had some minor tweaks, but the overall shape and headstock are quite similar from brand to brand.


----------



## spudmunkey

BC Rich's website should be launching any day now, right? Didn't they say "in 10-12 days" about a week-and-a-half ago?


----------



## Merrekof

spudmunkey said:


> BC Rich's website should be launching any day now, right? Didn't they say "in 10-12 days" about a week-and-a-half ago?



Sunday perhaps? At least that's what I figured


----------



## Hollowway

Damon67 said:


> Hello, Damon from Red Blanket Guitars here. The one in question is indeed 25.5" however, the new ones coming out in the fall will be 26.5".
> 
> The one on the RBG site is the prototype, and I think it was done before even a 6 string was completed. There are many unique things about this particular one. Going forward, there will be no diamond inlays, the Fluence pickups were added after the fact at the factory (the cavities were carved by hand to fit them), and the recessed Dunlop strap buttons are being replaced by standard Schaller locking buttons.
> 
> I know some folks like a 25.5 with a Floyd, this will be the only one. We have all the new ones on order too... 130+ guitars in all are on order with BCR currently. We're pretty excited about the return and are throwing our full support at the brand.
> 
> We should see a 7 string or two in the next couple weeks too, stay tuned.
> 
> Cheers!



Any idea about other specs on the future 8s? Like, will there be other colors, other versions (without abalone?)?


----------



## Evil Chuck

Hollowway said:


> Any idea about other specs on the future 8s? Like, will there be other colors, other versions (without abalone?)?


What if they released your dream 8 string, I mean literally everything you ever wished for in an 8 string, but the entire top was abalone with abalone purfling?


----------



## Merrekof

Evil Chuck said:


> What if they released your dream 8 string, I mean literally everything you ever wished for in an 8 string, but the entire top was abalone with abalone purfling?



Spray paint is your friend!


----------



## Seabeast2000

Evil Chuck said:


> What if they released your dream 8 string, I mean literally everything you ever wished for in an 8 string, but the entire top was abalone with abalone purfling?


Start a thread about best pickups for abalone top?


----------



## Hollowway

Evil Chuck said:


> What if they released your dream 8 string, I mean literally everything you ever wished for in an 8 string, but the entire top was abalone with abalone purfling?


----------



## electriceye

So, glad to see my original post is still kicking. To me, BCR is dead. This is basically the revived Hamer: no original soul left, just the licensing of a name and ruining a legacy. The imports are over-priced (as are the USA models, IMO) and the abalone binding is atrocious. Maybe noting will make me happy.


----------



## Hollowway

electriceye said:


> So, glad to see my original post is still kicking. To me, BCR is dead. This is basically the revived Hamer: no original soul left, just the licensing of a name and ruining a legacy. The imports are over-priced (as are the USA models, IMO) and the abalone binding is atrocious. Maybe noting will make me happy.



Hey, if they make me a Floyd 8 with the broken souls of BCR, I’m fine with it! Or, better yet, use one less broken soul, because I really don’t need all the abalone.


----------



## possumkiller

I think they didn't use enough abalone. They could've bound the back of the body in abalone. The pickup routes and Floyd routes.


----------



## Merrekof

possumkiller said:


> I think they didn't use enough abalone. They could've bound the back of the body in abalone. The pickup routes and Floyd routes.


Don't forget the volume knob and switch


----------



## possumkiller

Merrekof said:


> Don't forget the volume knob and switch


Control cavity covers, output jack...


----------



## spudmunkey

If I remember right, there actually was an example where they put the abalone purfling around the pickup cavities. Was it the V?


----------



## spudmunkey

Yep, the 50th anniversary V:


----------



## AndyB

Yo where this website at?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

AndyB said:


> Yo where this website at?


https://www.instagram.com/p/B1peC6LAUDV/


----------



## Merrekof

I read something about the website being up in 10-12 days..it's been 2 weeks already


----------



## AndyB

Interesting, I wonder if they’re going to be working with slash, they seem to be suggesting that in a couple of their posts. Hopefully this website will be up soon, it’ll be interesting for sure


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

AndyB said:


> Interesting, I wonder if they’re going to be working with slash, they seem to be suggesting that in a couple of their posts. Hopefully this website will be up soon, it’ll be interesting for sure



Probably. Or they're just using his name and image to get their name back out there.


----------



## cardinal

Merrekof said:


> I read something about the website being up in 10-12 days..it's been 2 weeks already



Well, this is the company that in 2019 gave the green-light to a prototype 8 string with a 25.5" scale. Unfortunately, my hopes for a well-run, knowledgeable company went out the window with that revelation.


----------



## trem licking

I agree about the 25.5 inch 8 model being a bit odd, i could probably make it work but def prefer 27". I think the trigger pulling will happen for me when those 26.5" 8s hit, as that is close enough to 27"... will probably play a little nicer with the floyd than my 28" behemoth haha


----------



## StrmRidr

Still no website, and they've been a lot quieter on social media. I'm having flashbacks to the last reboot.


----------



## Merrekof

StrmRidr said:


> Still no website, and they've been a lot quieter on social media. I'm having flashbacks to the last reboot.


I was thinking thesame actually. I was getting hyped to be honest.


----------



## cardinal

trem licking said:


> I agree about the 25.5 inch 8 model being a bit odd, i could probably make it work but def prefer 27". I think the trigger pulling will happen for me when those 26.5" 8s hit, as that is close enough to 27"... will probably play a little nicer with the floyd than my 28" behemoth haha



My Schecters are 26.5". I prefer that to 27", but obviously it's really close. Just a touch lighter tension. The BC Rich 26.5" Floyd'd 8-string is going to be awesome if they can get it across the finish line.


----------



## possumkiller

They pulled the plug already?


----------



## Carlos_EVH

New BC Rich Ironbird? It looks amazing.


----------



## StrmRidr

That is 100% a custom shop Ironbird.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

More old CS BCRs have been posted than actual new import ones.


----------



## Bdtunn

I wonder if the sea can fell off the boat on the way over. Their Instagram was flooded with updates and now radio silence. And the website won’t somebody please think of the website....


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Bdtunn said:


> I wonder if the sea can fell off the boat on the way over. Their Instagram was flooded with updates and now radio silence. And the website won’t somebody please think of the website....



Heh, I thought the veteran receiving clerk at my work was the only one who called shipping containers "sea cans". 

I'm guessing there are issues with the batch. Either something went way wrong in shipping (damage, customs nightmare, etc.), quality issues need sorting, etc. 

Though the lack of website and even tepid social media posting usually means an internal, company problem. So either cash flow (websites don't build themselves, and staff ain't posting for free) or people (someone important quit).


----------



## electriceye

Merrekof said:


> I was thinking thesame actually. I was getting hyped to be honest.



After what's gone on with the brand the past ten yers or so, no one should ever be psyched about vaporware...


----------



## Science_Penguin

If this cycle continues, can we make it a tradition to make more additions to the thread title?

"So, is BC Rich officially dead? Apparently not. Or... No maybe they are. Oh, hold on they might not be. No, I think they really are. Maybe it'll work this time though? Nah, I'd say that's definitely the end. Or is it?"


----------



## Hollowway




----------



## MaxOfMetal

Science_Penguin said:


> If this cycle continues, can we make it a tradition to make more additions to the thread title?
> 
> "So, is BC Rich officially dead? Apparently not. Or... No maybe they are. Oh, hold on they might not be. No, I think they really are. Maybe it'll work this time though? Nah, I'd say that's definitely the end. Or is it?"


----------



## Merrekof

electriceye said:


> After what's gone on with the brand the past ten yers or so, no one should ever be psyched about vaporware...


True. But when I was a teen starting out with guitar, I felt like BC Rich made the best and coolest guitars ever. So there's a little sentiment, despite the whole history behind the brand.

It seemed like they really had the train on the rails and going again, after the previous disaster of a comeback..I guess the train stopped somewhere among the way


----------



## oppgulp

Didn't they say just a month ago that they had containers full of guitars heading to dealers? Even though the website isn't updated maybe some dealers got them in stock?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

oppgulp said:


> Didn't they say just a month ago that they had containers full of guitars heading to dealers? Even though the website isn't updated maybe some dealers got them in stock?



Historically, roughly 90% of folks involved with BCR were/are full of shit. Comes with the territory.


----------



## twguitar

MaxOfMetal said:


> Historically, roughly 90% of folks involved with BCR were/are full of shit. Comes with the territory.



As someone who runs a BC Rich FB group I would say that number is closer to 95%.... attracts some right nut jobs


----------



## Hollowway

Someone needs to make a BCR Starter Pack meme.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Maybe BRJ is in charge of this new BC Rich, and he's running it just as poorly as he ran that brand of his?


----------



## possumkiller

Maybe the sea can fell into the sea?


----------



## Seabeast2000

possumkiller said:


> Maybe the sea can fell into the sea?


May be stranded on an island eating coconuts and fish.


----------



## possumkiller

The906 said:


> May be stranded on an island eating coconuts and fish.


With that guy from Top Gun. Wilson.


----------



## Seabeast2000

possumkiller said:


> With that guy from Top Gun. Wilson.


Yes and it might go Lord of the Flies if left unattended.


----------



## gunshow86de

Pictured: Me, checking their Instagram and website every few days. I don't have an MBA, but I assume it's not a great idea to go "radio silent" on all social media right before a major product launch in 2019.


----------



## spudmunkey

No shit. It seemed like their social media presence was even ramping up. you'd think if there were delays, they'd mention _something_...


----------



## StrmRidr

At least last time's disaster of a relaunch actually had a website and guitars in stores.


----------



## spudmunkey

StrmRidr said:


> At least last time's disaster of a relaunch actually had a website and guitars in stores.



They did have, like, what...6 on reverb?


----------



## StrmRidr

spudmunkey said:


> They did have, like, what...6 on reverb?


I saw two of the Warlocks in stores in Canada.


----------



## Andromalia

Lemme guess, Jr ran with the money ?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Andromalia said:


> Lemme guess, Jr ran with the money ?


Wouldn't surprise me and wouldn't be the first time.


----------



## Hollowway

Maybe they, like me, enjoy the Abasi and BCR thread title updates, and are purposely stretching this launch out so we get to see how the mods rename the BCR death throes thread title. I know I enjoy it!


----------



## Bdtunn

Maybe abasi was the secret investor 
Booom mind blown....


----------



## BrutalRob

They are supposed to be at the guitar summit here in Germany in two weeks. I hope some of their new stuff will be available to check out.
As much as I hate all that abalone, I just want to know if they are worth saving up for the first runs without abalone.


----------



## mlp187

We look forward to your update, BrualRob. Maybe they're being silent because they're busy making abalone-free iterations.

I want to go on record to say I love all that abalone. I was so pumped for shredzillas and warlocks. Crossing my fingers for everyone.


----------



## Andromalia

mlp187 said:


> We look forward to your update, BrualRob. Maybe they're being silent because they're busy making abalone-free iterations.



PMR guys aren't the ones making the guitars, usually.


----------



## Rosal76

BrutalRob said:


> I just want to know if they are worth saving up for the first runs without abalone.



One of the members of a B.C. Rich Facebook group purchased one of the new Stealth guitars from The Music Farm about a month ago. He gave a lengthy review on it and stated that it has problems. Best bet is to just wait it out because you'll never know what may come up with the newer B.C. Rich guitars.


----------



## mlp187

Andromalia said:


> PMR guys aren't the ones making the guitars, usually.


It was a sarcastic statement, but thank you (no sarcasm).


----------



## BrutalRob

@Rosal76 where can I find that review?


----------



## watson503

BrutalRob said:


> @Rosal76 where can I find that review?


I'm pretty sure this is the one he was speaking of:


> Thoughts on my new Legacy Stealth.
> 
> The first thing I have to do is apologize to you guys for taking so long to write this post. The guitar arrived right in the middle of a busy two week period at work. It wasn’t love at first sight when I unpacked it either, so I wanted to spend a little time with it before I said too much or too little about it.
> 
> The second thing I want to say is that overall, I love the guitar. I’m about to pick it all apart, and possibly hurt some feelings along the way, but I think you guys were expecting that by now... so I just wanted to make it clear that I do love the guitar, having put about 20 hours of playing time on it now.
> 
> I’ve been trying to come up with a way of telling you about the guitar that would be as fair as possible, so what I’m going to do is start with the sale. Not the transaction, but the deal.
> 
> Here’s the thing. This is a prototype guitar. As such, it had passed through a lot of hands before landing in mine. There was no damage per se, but it was definitely a used guitar... like a floor model. This was something that hadn’t really occurred to me until I unpacked it and saw smudges all over it, wear on the bridge (which luckily buffed out easily), the plastic had been torn off the control cavity cover, etc. Something else to be aware of: there aren’t any “permanent” serial numbers on these guitars. My serial number is written OVER the clear coat with a silver paint marker (or something like that). Mine is TMF720193. I believe it translates as “The Music Farm”... 7 - this could mean July, or it could mean 7 because TMF bought 7 of the prototypes, but I think it probably means “July”... the year 2019 (obviously)... and 3 - I believe this probably means this was guitar #3 out of the 7 that TMF bought, in their effort to generate some sort of identification for them. I haven’t pulled the pickups to see if BCR put any identification on it in the cavities, and there is nothing in the control cavity, all of which have hastily applied shielding paint in them. It’s probably safe to assume that these guitars came from the factory unmarked. Otherwise, why paint a made up number on it later? I’ll be permanently putting this number on the guitar in a couple of inconspicuous places for obvious reasons.
> 
> So back to the “deal.” The MSRP on these was $2050, I believe, with a street price of $1399 shipped. That seems like a lot of money for an import guitar, and it is - and before anyone starts comparing them to other import guitars let me point out something: This guitar was sold to me (I realized after I received it) without any kind of warranty, expressed or implied. My only recourse (in writing) was the option to return it at my expense, with a 15% restocking fee. So basically, I can get $1000 back out of the $1400 I paid, if I return it, and other than that I’m on my own. That’s a shit deal, when you think about it. Also, I realize that MSRP’s are meaningless. All they do is attempt to “justify” the dealer markup by making it appear that you’re getting a “good deal,” or a “sale price.” It’s just marketing bullshit, and I know it, and you know it. This guitar shouldn’t cost the buyer more than $1k, in my opinion. $1100 shipped would be fair. $1400 shipped is too much.
> 
> The fact that it showed up with obvious signs of use all over it means it probably was not “thoroughly gone over before shipping” as advertised. There will be a little more on the “as advertised” below as well...
> 
> Okay, so what about the guitar?
> 
> Well the first thing I noticed was the fretboard. It’s beautiful. The Ebony has a nice fine grain, and the inlay work is very precise - much better than on any imported BCR I’ve ever seen. Actually, it’s nicer than any import guitar I’ve seen, period. It has a traditional 24-5/8” scale over *12” radius*, the entire length of the neck. It’s dead flat, and it hasn’t moved since I adjusted it for a little relief the second day I had it.
> 
> The neck itself is slim - not Thin Wizard slim, but a long way from a baseball bat. It’s fast, and it’s comfortable. It measures 43mm at the nut, and 58.5mm at the bottom. E to E spacing at the Quad is 50mm - so you can bend an octave plus in either direction without having to think about anything. The biggest complaint I have about this neck is that there is some kind of low spot on it, along the back of the neck toward the bass side, between the first and second frets. You can feel it, but you can’t really see it in any light. My first thought was that it was some kind of overlap in the clear. I had to use a straight edge to figure out what is actually going on there. It looks like they may have taken a little more wood out of that spot than they should have, when they sanded in the angle of the headstock. My second complaint is the neck angle itself. It appears to be angled a hair over 2.5 degrees, which is a little more than it needs to be... but the guitar will set up fine nonetheless, and I get that you need some breathing room on a neck through build. Still, it pushes everything up slightly more (bridge, pickups), than I like them. One the one hand I’d have to say it’s pretty “normal,” but on the other it’s problematic. More on that below...
> 
> The body is made of quality choices of woods. Very clear and straight grained. Nicely carved and finished. The veneers are paper thin, but the bookmatching on the face is perfect. The small bass side upper horn is cut slightly differently than every Stealth I’ve had before, but it doesn’t really stand out as such. All in all, the woodwork on the entire guitar (with the exception of that one spot on the neck) is very well done.
> 
> The nut needs work on this guitar. Honestly, I think I’d rather just replace it with bone, and at some point I probably will. It might be a Tusq XL, if not then it’s meant to look like one. E, A, and G are a little low at the nut, in my opinion. Whatever the case, it could be better, and it should be better.


----------



## watson503

Pt 2:


> At the other end of the strings is a Korean BCR Quad. There’s nothing much to say about the bridge itself - they are what they are. I’m a big fan of the Quad bridges. The factory posts actually fit the bridge decently, with less slop than I’m used to seeing on BCR imports, but locking posts would still be an improvement. The post anchors appear to be installed with a slight back angle. I don’t know if this was intentional, with the idea that they would “settle forward” over time, or if it’s just a sloppy install.
> 
> The strings themselves are NYXL’s, so I have to give them credit for putting a set of quality strings on the guitar.
> 
> The guitar came with Grover locking tuners, and they function well on this guitar. So BCR gets points for this as well.
> 
> The pickups are DiMarzio’s. They say “Made in USA” and “High Power Series” on the bobbins. I can’t find any info on them anywhere. I’ve seen a couple of people float the idea that these are being made exclusively for BC Rich, but I haven’t been able to confirm that either. You’d think they’d put some emphasis on that in their advertising, if that was the case, but who knows? Whatever the case may be, I like them. They’re a little dark through my 6505, but they have great clarity with the pregain rolled back around 2 on both channels. I haven’t bothered to drag out any other amps to try it out on, mostly because I really like the way it sounds through the 6505 with nothing but the amp, or a chorus pedal in front of it.
> 
> I’ve thought very hard about what to compare them to, to give everyone a better idea as to what they sound like. They’re very versatile, but overall a little “dark”, like I said before. They remind me a lot of the Duncan Solars that were exclusive to the Washburn Ola Englund guitars, and which were based more or less on the JB and ‘59 combo. The tone reminds me more of that than the Super Distortions... kinda like what I imagine you’d get from an overwound set of Evo’s. Same kind of clarity with more meat.
> 
> The one thing I will say bad about these pickups - this guitar comes wired for coil splitting the neck pup. Yes, the neck, not the bridge. I don’t find that pickup to be useful or appealing in “split mode”, and I doubt the bridge would be any better.
> 
> But... the guitar was spec’d with a X2N at the bridge and a D-Activator X in the neck. I never paid attention to the actual pickups in the photos of my guitar, so it was a surprise when these showed up in the guitar that I received. This was supposed to be the guitar in the written specs. I went back and looked at the specs again, then the pictures again, and sure enough these are what it was pictured with. Inevitably, I ended up opening the control cavity, and one of the first things I looked for was any sign that the pickups had been swapped. It all looks factory original to me. Being an electrician/ technician by trade, I feel confident in that assessment.
> 
> Speaking of assessments, this is the part where mine goes totally downhill...
> 
> I’ve made this comment in another post previously, and I’m repeating it here now. The rest of the electronic circuit is garbage. The push/pull pot is noisy and scratchy. The 3 position switch is no better. Overall, the circuit is noisier than most of my other guitars, and slightly microphonic. There’s no nice way to say it - That pisses me off. And here’s the thing: that’s all there is other than the jack. Of all of the things to skimp on, it seems like the cheapest parts on the guitar (and again this would include the nut) are literally the cheapest parts they could find. I can’t think of a single excuse for this. My custom built Carvin neck through V was $2k (same as the MSRP on this guitar), and it came wired with top shelf components. Like I’ve stated elsewhere, the components in the old Bronze Series guitars were better than what came installed in this Stealth - and that’s the truth. I’ve reused plenty of Bronze Series pots. My “new” Legacy shows up needing the pot and switch replaced? That’s inexcusable in my mind. On top of that, the shielding paint in the control and pickup cavities is incomplete or nonexistent in places. This adds more background noise to the guitar, and compounds the problem of the bridge height and the fact that the pickups are passive mounted. The bottom of the bridge pup damned near sits flush with the face of the guitar, so the whole thing is exposed. The neck pup is about half exposed. On the plus side (he said sarcastically), as a testament to the quality control, the bridge pup came supplied with an extra mounting screw stuck to the side of it. Yup - no shit - see the pictures. I actually just found this today, as I was looking at little closer at the pickups. Notice the cloth tape is pushed up where the screw was stuck to the magnet... Luckily I have cloth tape, I’m gonna need it with the pickup hanging out in space like that. I realize that a lot people go for the passive mount look right now, but whatever happened to “horses for course?” It doesn’t work with this design, unless you take the extra time and care to ensure that it can. On a production guitar, it’s a total fail. There is nothing to protect them from physical damage, and nothing to shield them from noise at all.
> 
> One more thing, since I’m sure the new guys at BCR will see this eventually...
> 
> When is BCR ever gonna learn to put the damned strap buttons in the right places on their own guitars? How many times does it have to be said, “Put one by the neck, and the other at the base of the guitar.”??? The neck dive on this thing is the worst of any guitar I’ve owned! Kudos to you guys for using strap buttons that work with Schaller strap locks, but seriously, the placement is one of those little details that matters a lot.
> 
> So... you’ve got a quality platform here, but the final assembly are lacking and appear to be rushed. You’ve got to improve your quality control and final inspection. The electrical components are junk; spend another $5 for quality parts that work and last. The nut is probably the most crucial piece in a guitar like this - you need to improve it. You also need to make design choices based on performance and durability, rather than “looks.” And finally, you need to hold your distributors to their word in terms of their advertising, because those guys have the power to re-ruin your reputation just by simply not giving a shit.
> 
> Or... they need to drop the price, a lot, so that buyers can have more affordable platforms to modify, fix, whatever.
> 
> Like I said at the beginning of this, I have come to love the guitar - especially the neck. I didn’t have too many expectations about it, but I didn’t expect to be disappointed by the things that I’ve complained about above... not with the advertising, and especially not at that price point. There’s nothing wrong here that I can’t fix or improve, I have the experience and the tools to do that, but everyone isn’t me. The one thing I had hoped was that, as a prototype for a brand trying to rebuild its image, this guitar would have had a little extra attention paid to the details. Instead I got something that appears to have been rushed through the final stages of assembly and production. If this is the average level of quality that we’ll see in the imported line when it finally hits, BCR is going to struggle to sell them even if they drop the prices. If it improves, they’ll do better. If it gets worse, they’ll be eating their words about no more bolt-ons just to survive.
> 
> Kinda like I’m eating my words now, when I stuck up for them concerning the projected prices...


----------



## tedtan

Interesting read, but the review is concerning a prototype which is not necessarily indicative of the quality of the production run. Basically, we're still waiting to see an actual production model in the wild.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

He is right though; that thing should've been spotless and exquisite to impress the people at BCR. Even if it wasn't 100% how BCR wanted it, it still should've been given proper attention and not had a lot of the issues. Maybe that is why it is now on radio silence because they thought they were ready, and realized the guitars are basically sloppy. Shit pots, poorly done nut, neck angle possibly off, and poor shielding? Eh, for a $1400 guitar, that is ridiculous.


----------



## gunshow86de

Oh my....
https://www.themusiczoo.com/products/b-c-rich-ironbird-transparent-red-1985


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Let's hope it is put together better than the one reviewed.


----------



## StevenC

Spaced Out Ace said:


> He is right though; that thing should've been spotless and exquisite to impress the people at BCR. Even if it wasn't 100% how BCR wanted it, it still should've been given proper attention and not had a lot of the issues. Maybe that is why it is now on radio silence because they thought they were ready, and realized the guitars are basically sloppy. Shit pots, poorly done nut, neck angle possibly off, and poor shielding? Eh, for a $1400 guitar, that is ridiculous.


I've played some WMI prototypes for big companies, and they're always sloppier than the production versions. This is why you shouldn't sell prototypes.


----------



## Albake21

StevenC said:


> I've played some WMI prototypes for big companies, and they're always sloppier than the production versions. This is why you shouldn't sell prototypes.


I've heard this too, but doesn't that seem backwards? Wouldn't the builders want the prototypes to be their absolute best work so that companies will proceed with them?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

watson503 said:


> I'm pretty sure this is the one he was speaking of:





watson503 said:


> Pt 2:



The DiMarzio "High Power" is the base OEM pickup used for customers who want a "custom" pickup but don't want to pay production costs for a ground-up bespoke pickup. The customer can request pole type, magnet type, and I believe there are two or three wind options, but that's it. 

Pickup rings aren't going to change anything to do with shielding of the pickups. They're just plastic.

Overall a solid write up though.



Albake21 said:


> I've heard this too, but doesn't that seem backwards? Wouldn't the builders want the prototypes to be their absolute best work so that companies will proceed with them?



Not really. They're just placeholders to show the overall concept. 

The first batch QA/QC samples are what you're thinking of. 

Pre-Pro stuff is usually pretty dodgy as they're not meant for use. Just a step in the development process.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Albake21 said:


> I've heard this too, but doesn't that seem backwards? Wouldn't the builders want the prototypes to be their absolute best work so that companies will proceed with them?


You'd think so, but apparently not.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not really. They're just placeholders to show the overall concept.
> 
> The first batch QA/QC samples are what you're thinking of.
> 
> Pre-Pro stuff is usually pretty dodgy as they're not meant for use. Just a step in the development process.



One would think that it would be wise to hang on to them until you've got your reputation rolling. Don't sell your day-old bread until people have been tasting your prime fresh stuff. Again...one would think.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> One would think that it would be wise to hang on to them until you've got your reputation rolling. Don't sell your day-old bread until people have been tasting your prime fresh stuff. Again...one would think.



Agreed.

Though, they're probably running out of money and need to sell something in hopes of getting some cash.


----------



## BrutalRob

So after they were supposed to be at the guitar summit, there was no sign of them yesterday.


----------



## mlp187

BrutalRob said:


> So after they were supposed to be at the guitar summit, there was no sign of them yesterday.


Ouch.


----------



## Seabeast2000




----------



## StrmRidr

Well, move along guys. I guess we'll revive this thread in two years when the next bunch of clowns trying to revive the brand take over.


----------



## Merrekof

MaxOfMetal said:


> BCR has been an absolute dumpster fire behind the scenes since most forum members have been alive.



"We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning"


----------



## spudmunkey

I have two theories:

1) The new owner is Soulja Boy.
2) This whole thing will be on a new season of _Nathan For You._


----------



## ExplorerMike

Man that sucks if this whole thing tanked already. I was super excited to see them make the comeback. Guess we will keep waiting.


----------



## A-Branger

or either they had a last minute delay at the factory (which happens) so they stopped the hype to avoid conflicts of ETAs... or the batch they recieved was not up to their standards, in which they are A-fixing all the QC issues, or B-returning everything becasue they cant/donno how to fix stuff, C-trying to find someone who can fix them


----------



## Science_Penguin

Or maybe it's like Parker. They've REALLY got their heart set on that 2018 release, so they're gonna hold off until either time travel or multiverse portal technology catches up.

EDIT - Nope, nevermind just checked. Parker's website just plain no longer loads.


----------



## manu80

I’d tend to go with a factory delay/QC control issues maybe before burying the whole business...but who knows....
Trying to stay positive on that one !!!
Maybe they’re out of abalone stock or that the market has increased.....


----------



## Andromalia

It's pretty weird, they showed pictures of axes in production, all they had to do was to get them to stores. They blew the budget on hookers or ?


----------



## jonsick

I wonder if it's Dave Mustaine. I mean, he expressed interest before in acquiring Jackson Guitars which obviously didn't happen. He has played BC Rich in the past. Added to that, things started to go a little quiet after his cancer diagnosis...


----------



## StevenC

jonsick said:


> I wonder if it's Dave Mustaine. I mean, he expressed interest before in acquiring Jackson Guitars which obviously didn't happen. He has played BC Rich in the past. Added to that, things started to go a little quiet after his cancer diagnosis...


He wanted to buy Jackson when he played Jacksons. Don't see him jumping from Dean to try and revitalize a brand he was associated with for only a few years. He stopped playing BC Rich for Jackson around Peace Sells. He was with ESP for longer. Also he was interested in Jackson as a going concern, not reviving the brand. 

Not to mention he announced his cancer in June and there have been plenty of updates since then.


----------



## spudmunkey

manu80 said:


> I’d tend to go with a factory delay/QC control issues maybe before burying the whole business...but who knows....
> Trying to stay positive on that one !!!



but then, FFS, just say SOMETHING on social media. Just say "We're taking a step back to make sure we can provide the guitars we can be proud to have our name on, and guitars you'd be proud to own".

on the other hand, we're kind of obsessively following them. Anyone who's only partially aware of the return, they are likely out of their memory until their next post.


----------



## Rosal76

Andromalia said:


> It's pretty weird, they showed pictures of axes in production, all they had to do was to get them to stores. They blew the budget on hookers or ?



Red Blanket guitars have some of the imports in stock for sale already and are waiting for more to arrive. According to their webstore, they have some Mockingbirds and a double neck Bich in stock for sale already.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Rosal76 said:


> Red Blanket guitars have some of the imports in stock/for sale already and are waiting for more to arrive. According to their webstore, they have some Mockingbirds and a double neck Bich in stock already.



They seem to be either pre-order listings or more pre-pro samples. 

It says they're getting more October 1st, so we'll see tomorrow I guess. Others say "3 to 4 weeks" so who knows when that was posted.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> It says they're getting more October 1st, so we'll see tomorrow I guess. Others say "3 to 4 weeks" so who knows when that was posted.



I think they said the website was "1-2 weeks away" or something, like 6 weeks ago.


----------



## Merrekof

spudmunkey said:


> I think they said the website was "1-2 weeks away" or something, like 6 weeks ago.


Their site was supposed to be up in "2 weeks"
This was sometime in august IIRC


----------



## gunshow86de

Yup, on August 12 they said 10-12 days away. On August 26 they posted some pics of Slash's Mockingbird, without addressing the relaunch or new site. Those are the most recent posts they've made on any form of social media.


----------



## Hollowway

gunshow86de said:


> Yup, on August 12 they said 10-12 days away. On August 26 they posted some pics of Slash's Mockingbird, without addressing the relaunch or new site. Those are the most recent posts they've made on any form of social media.



Well in their defense, they didn’t specify EARTH days. Maybe they meant Venusian days? That would give them several (Earth) years until they need to get done.


----------



## Rosal76

Hollowway said:


> Well in their defense, they didn’t specify EARTH days. Maybe they meant Venusian days? That would give them several (Earth) years until they need to get done.



You maybe on to something. Many, many years ago, someone ordered a B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop, Kerry King generation 2 Tribal KKV from The Musicfarm. It took B.C. Rich 2 years to build it. When he finally got it, he posted pictures and it was freaking nice. Many of us on the forum were in disbelief that he had to wait 2 years for it. I think Lamborghini builds cars faster than they build guitars. LOL.


----------



## Merrekof

Rosal76 said:


> You maybe on to something. Many, many years ago, someone ordered a B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop, Kerry King generation 2 Tribal KKV from The Musicfarm. It took B.C. Rich 2 years to build it. When he finally got it, he posted pictures and it was freaking nice. Many of us on the forum were in disbelief that he had to wait 2 years for it. I think Lamborghini builds cars faster than they build guitars. LOL.


Daemoness guitars: "Hold my beer....."


----------



## gunshow86de

Merrekof said:


> Daemoness guitars: "Hold my beer....."



Who would win; a one man operation vs. an entire custom shop?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

gunshow86de said:


> Who would win; a one man operation vs. an entire custom shop?




The seax models from them are slick af


----------



## Merrekof

gunshow86de said:


> Who would win; a one man operation vs. an entire custom shop?


Not trying to diss Deamoness, it just came to mind. 
The other day someone here posted an NGD and waited 5 years for his Daemoness. I couldn't wait that long but that fretboard might be the nicest one I've ever seen.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Merrekof said:


> Not trying to diss Deamoness, it just came to mind.
> The other day someone here posted an NGD and waited 5 years for his Daemoness. I couldn't wait that long but that fretboard might be the nicest one I've ever seen.




Source of said thread/pics?


----------



## Merrekof

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Source of said thread/pics?


https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-daemoness-124-gaia-concept.337561/


----------



## spudmunkey

Merrekof said:


> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-daemoness-124-gaia-concept.337561/



Fuck you, Photobucket.

That is all.


----------



## zappatton2

My impression is that the BCR custom shop isn't a large shop. I think I had to wait a couple of years on a custom, but it's a good stretch to save for. I'd couldn't afford a shorter wait time than that, TBH.


----------



## Andromalia

It's also a good stretch to be fucked if they go under.


----------



## zappatton2

Very true!!


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

What I find weird is as mentioned earlier on their instagram story sometime in August they said they would be launching the site in 12 days. Nothing. Month Overdue. What i also find strange is one site states that they will be expecting to receive some of the products September 30th. 

I wonder what is going on. Could it be that maybe BCR just hasn't hit the deadlines/isn't ready to do the full reveal yet?

Or is it something else? I am excited for this brands revamp, but I dunno. Maybe we all got pranked?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> What I find weird is as mentioned earlier on their instagram story sometime in August they said they would be launching the site in 12 days. Nothing. Month Overdue. What i also find strange is one site states that they will be expecting to receive some of the products September 30th.
> 
> I wonder what is going on. Could it be that maybe BCR just hasn't hit the deadlines/isn't ready to do the full reveal yet?
> 
> Or is it something else? I am excited for this brands revamp, but I dunno. Maybe we all got pranked?



It takes a lot of individuals with different skills and expertise to launch a guitar brand these days.

I'm guessing that they're either out of money or running out. So they can't pay the website guy to finish the new site. They already ordered the guitars, so they need to sell off anything they can to keep them coming.

We're probably not getting social media updates because that guy isn't getting paid either.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

JHS has been rebuilding their site since at least May. "Coming back June... or maybe this summer... or soon-ish."


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> It takes a lot of individuals with different skills and expertise to launch a guitar brand these days.
> 
> I'm guessing that they're either out of money or running out. So they can't pay the website guy to finish the new site. They already ordered the guitars, so they need to sell off anything they can to keep them coming.
> 
> We're probably not getting social media updates because that guy isn't getting paid either.



You have a very good point. Didn't even consider this


----------



## dhgrind

Merrekof said:


> Not trying to diss Deamoness, it just came to mind.
> The other day someone here posted an NGD and waited 5 years for his Daemoness. I couldn't wait that long but that fretboard might be the nicest one I've ever seen.



I’ve been on queue for 3 years and I’m only now going to be putting in my specs for the build at the end of the year.


----------



## Merrekof

dhgrind said:


> I’ve been on queue for 3 years and I’m only now going to be putting in my specs for the build at the end of the year.


Looks like we're getting a Daemoness NGD from you in 3 years then!


----------



## dhgrind

Merrekof said:


> Looks like we're getting a Daemoness NGD from you in 3 years then!



Hopefully FedEx doesn’t fuck that delivery too.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Not to worry guys, THEY ARE COMING OUT WITH ACCESSORIES!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> View attachment 73325
> 
> 
> Not to worry guys, THEY ARE COMING OUT WITH ACCESSORIES!



Ah yes, Cafe Press grade knicknacks. That's always a good sign.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ah yes, Cafe Press grade knicknacks. That's always a good sign.




Another guitar company with a lifestyle side to accompany it. Oh this sounds great...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Another guitar company with a lifestyle side to accompany it. Oh this sounds great...



Eh, some merch is fine. I have a couple guitar brand t-shirts and stuff I've gotten (mostly for free) over the years. 

But it's usually nice to have guitars first. 

Reminds me of Darren/Decibel selling branded picks and asking for feedback on t-shirt designs before building customers' guitars.


----------



## Randy

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> View attachment 73325
> 
> 
> Not to worry guys, THEY ARE COMING OUT WITH ACCESSORIES!



Holding out my preorder until BC Rich engraved USB drives and executive style pen with touchscreen stylus.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

until they come out with a studded tribal codpiece to match my tribal tattoo I'm not interested*I don't actually have a tribal tattoo


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Randy said:


> Holding out my preorder until BC Rich engraved USB drives and executive style pen with touchscreen stylus.




I am waiting for them to come out with studio monitors with tribal graphics on it.Only then will I buy stuff from them!


----------



## spudmunkey

Personally, I'm waiting for baseball caps with built in speakers under the bill.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> Personally, I'm waiting for baseball caps with built in speakers under the bill.



gotta make sure it is tribal graphics for the pure authenticity


----------



## Merrekof

Or a BC Rich coffee maker, complete with abalone binding.


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> It takes a lot of individuals with different skills and expertise to launch a guitar brand these days.



Seeing this from my POV and the reaction in here, the first thing it takes that they don't have is not to issue guitars with cosmetic features poopular* 10 years ago and mostly the hallmark... of another brand. BC Rich potential customers don't want a BC Rich shaped Schecter.

I'm not sure what they lack are business skills, but they certainly lack knowledge of the market and, apparently, common sense. Buying a company doesn't mean you have the skills to handle it.

*No typo


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> Seeing this from my POV and the reaction in here, the first thing it takes that they don't have is not to issue guitars with cosmetic features poopular* 10 years ago and mostly the hallmark... of another brand. BC Rich potential customers don't want a BC Rich shaped Schecter.
> 
> I'm not sure what they lack are business skills, but they certainly lack knowledge of the market and, apparently, common sense. Buying a company doesn't mean you have the skills to handle it.
> 
> *No typo



Not being aware of the market and being awful at business are in and of themselves hallmarks of BCR.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Just went looking around reverb and Red blanket has some up on there currently, a double necked Bich, and 5 Mockingbirds.


----------



## spudmunkey

wedge_destroyer said:


> Just went looking around reverb and Red blanket has some up on there currently, a double necked Bich, and 5 Mockingbirds.



Are they actually new? One of the red ones (ironbird, maybe?) recently posted in this thread was an older one.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

spudmunkey said:


> Are they actually new? One of the red ones (ironbird, maybe?) recently posted in this thread was an older one.



Nope not older ones, several of the mocks have the 50th logo on the headstock.

Out of the preproduction batch perhaps, but definately not that old.


----------



## mogar

I hope that there's just some growing pains slowing down a big launch... I need a warlock II in my life.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

mogar said:


> I hope that there's just some growing pains slowing down a big launch... I need a warlock II in my life.




I need something pointy af to fit the generic stereotype of a teenager into BC Rich


----------



## iamaom

mogar said:


> I hope that there's just some growing pains slowing down a big launch... I need a warlock II in my life.


Ever since Vitriol dropped their album I just NEED a pointy guitar.


----------



## Merrekof

iamaom said:


> Ever since Vitriol dropped their album I just NEED a pointy guitar.


These days there are plenty of pointy alternatives out there.. ESP LTD, Ormsby, Solar, Dean, Jackson, Ibanez (used X-series),.... 
BCR was the first "big" guitar company who provided pointy guitars. And granted, they have their unique designs but still, I don't think many people are waiting for another 6 string Warlock with too much abalone.


----------



## A-Branger

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> What I find weird is as mentioned earlier on their instagram story sometime in August they said they would be launching the site in 12 days. Nothing. Month Overdue. What i also find strange is one site states that they will be expecting to receive some of the products September 30th.
> 
> I wonder what is going on. Could it be that maybe BCR just hasn't hit the deadlines/isn't ready to do the full reveal yet?
> 
> Or is it something else? I am excited for this brands revamp, but I dunno. Maybe we all got pranked?



naah my money is that they got a delay in the factory for whatever reason it might be... as its pretty normal to happen. The new people taking over the brand might be "too new" to the game and though the ETA from the factory was a real 100% due date, and not an EstimateTA...



MaxOfMetal said:


> We're probably not getting social media updates because that guy isn't getting paid either.



maybe the reason why they havent updated with any info, its because they dont have any info to update for. IF they are actually experiencing a delay in production, thats as far as they might know about it. And they might be confused on what type of info they should be releasing about it right now. As if they say "we got a delay" they cant really explain the "why", but more important they wont know the new ETAs, which could backfire as peopl would demand a new date..... Also if the delay is due to a lack of QC and extra work to be needed first (my second guess) thats not something they would post either... "hey guys, we got the guitar but they fucked up, so we are fixing them now aye  " ......and to simple say "we got the guitar! look!, hitting stores soon"... might open another can of worms as they might dont know how long they would take to fix (if thats the issue)

whatever reason, they decided to best keep it shut until they get real concrete info to reveal, that doesnt mean they went broke or something...... or maybe they are!, when they didnt took into account the final bill from the asian factory and the fact that many stores decide not to pay in time (believe me, it happens way too often)... so yeh, they might be waiting for cash from stores/dealers so they can ship the guitars from the factory.... (my third guess)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

A-Branger said:


> maybe the reason why they havent updated with any info, its because they dont have any info to update for



I don't think you know how social media works.


----------



## A-Branger

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't think you know how social media works.



probably nope


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

iamaom said:


> Ever since Vitriol dropped their album I just NEED a pointy guitar.




You are speaking straight up facts! Kyle is hogging all the god damn warriors and wont share with me!


----------



## Señor Voorhees

I mean, "there are delays, we'll update when more info is available" is better than "here's a bunch of stuff releasing by this date" then vanishing. Addressing issues/transparency is a good thing. The QC theory also makes no sense. I'm more inclined to respect someone who says "we got the product, but it wasn't up to our standards, so we're fixing the issue" vs someone who just twiddles their thumbs in the corner pretending nothing happened.


----------



## gunshow86de

All I want is an import Ironbird with LTD 1000-series equivalent specs ("name brand" pickups and one of the better licensed Floyds), no abalone and solid red or white paint. Please and thank you.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

gunshow86de said:


> All I want is an import Ironbird with LTD 1000-series equivalent specs ("name brand" pickups and one of the better licensed Floyds), no abalone and solid red or white paint. Please and thank you.




With a trans black quilt and reverse 6 in line headstock... YUM


----------



## Viginez

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> With a trans black quilt and reverse 6 in line headstock... YUM


...and only neck thru


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Viginez said:


> ...and only neck thru




They said that they are only doing neck thrus from now on. No bolt ons except for gun slingers.



This video is what i want, but with reversed 6 in line headstock, floyd, no inlays, and luminlay side dots


----------



## Rosal76

gunshow86de said:


> All I want is an import Ironbird with LTD 1000-series equivalent specs ("name brand" pickups and one of the better licensed Floyds), no abalone and solid red or white paint. Please and thank you.



It would be awesome if they made imports like these 2. On the low end.





And on the high end. Can't really see it but the top (below pic) is flame mapled.


----------



## A-Branger

Señor Voorhees said:


> I mean, "there are delays, we'll update when more info is available" is better than "here's a bunch of stuff releasing by this date" then vanishing. Addressing issues/transparency is a good thing.



its a great thing, but maybe they decided not to do it. It would eb weird to think "why not?" but that may be the reason

Im jsut trying to think a reason why. Having them saying a release date from too far away and them saying nothing seems for me that they dont have the guitars yet and a delay in factory must ahve happen (as they do)

the QC theory I propsed is another alternative but yeah bit weirder as they could at least show some pics of the shipment and guitars and spin it like you say into something good. So cahnces are they dont have the guitars at hand, so either the asian factory (donno if its been said where?) got some delays on the build slot for them, or simply they ahvent paid the guitars so they havent shipped out (this could be from many reasons)..... but, IF the money is the case, that could mean the guitars have been build according to plan (in order to meet their ETA, and if so, then they would have some factory photos of the guitar in the production line or paint booth or something. Since they havent shown that, my vote is to a delay in their build slot at the factory


----------



## MaxOfMetal

A-Branger said:


> its a great thing, but maybe they decided not to do it. It would eb weird to think "why not?" but that may be the reason
> 
> Im jsut trying to think a reason why. Having them saying a release date from too far away and them saying nothing seems for me that they dont have the guitars yet and a delay in factory must ahve happen (as they do)
> 
> the QC theory I propsed is another alternative but yeah bit weirder as they could at least show some pics of the shipment and guitars and spin it like you say into something good. So cahnces are they dont have the guitars at hand, so either the asian factory (donno if its been said where?) got some delays on the build slot for them, or simply they ahvent paid the guitars so they havent shipped out (this could be from many reasons)..... but, IF the money is the case, that could mean the guitars have been build according to plan (in order to meet their ETA, and if so, then they would have some factory photos of the guitar in the production line or paint booth or something. Since they havent shown that, my vote is to a delay in their build slot at the factory



Two things:

-They said the guitars were done and being shipped.

-They have shown production photos of nearly finished and finished batches of guitars.

This is information in this very thread.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Updates/news/info is part of selling guitars, they stopped selling them, it seems.


----------



## Ataraxia2320

Science_Penguin said:


> Or maybe it's like Parker. They've REALLY got their heart set on that 2018 release, so they're gonna hold off until either time travel or multiverse portal technology catches up.
> 
> EDIT - Nope, nevermind just checked. Parker's website just plain no longer loads.



Is there more info to be found re: Parker? Where should I look? I love parker guitars and have been praying for a comeback.


----------



## oracles

Ataraxia2320 said:


> Is there more info to be found re: Parker? Where should I look? I love parker guitars and have been praying for a comeback.



US Music Corp has basically killed all their brands. Washburn, Randall, Parker are all as good as dead at this point and show no signs of making a come back any time soon. Parker teased at it for a little while but not even their website is up anymore, I wouldnt hold out hope.


----------



## A-Branger

MaxOfMetal said:


> Two things:
> 
> -They said the guitars were done and being shipped.
> 
> -They have shown production photos of nearly finished and finished batches of guitars.
> 
> This is information in this very thread.


aaaaaaaaaaand I go back slowly into my cave... sorry folks mah bad 


donno where did I miss that part. I havent seen any new pics, as the ones they have in their instagram from the factory is from that small first batch of prototypes


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

oracles said:


> US Music Corp has basically killed all their brands. Washburn, Randall, Parker are all as good as dead at this point and show no signs of making a come back any time soon. Parker teased at it for a little while but not even their website is up anymore, I wouldnt hold out hope.


Was there any reason why?


----------



## Vyn

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Was there any reason why?



Guessing one of three reasons:

1 - Too many brands to manage
2 - Not enough competent people to manage brands
3 - Self off brand resources to pay down debt/give dividends to shareholders

In short, corporate fuckwittery


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Vyn said:


> Guessing one of three reasons:
> 
> 1 - Too many brands to manage
> 2 - Not enough competent people to manage brands
> 3 - Self off brand resources to pay down debt/give dividends to shareholders
> 
> In short, corporate fuckwittery


Seems possible that Randall and Washburn were paying a lot to outside people to design shit for them.


----------



## Vyn

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Seems possible that Randall and Washburn were paying a lot to outside people to design shit for them.



Randall basically turned into a production version of Mike Fortin's offerings.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Vyn said:


> Randall basically turned into a production version of Mike Fortin's offerings.


And Washburn was putting the Stephens cut on a lot more guitars. Probably cost a lot to license Fortin designs and Stephens cut. Curious if Buzz was also getting a cut for his tuning system.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Viginez said:


> ...and only neck thru


















Saw this on FB and had a huge ass orgasm. Slick af. Everything I could ever want minus the kahler. Sure I could get that professional swapped if the guitar played good


----------



## jco5055

I know Kahler gets no love (I had a Kerry King V and had no issues with it, but I probably would say my all time fave is the Lo Pro Edge), but idk it just seems like it ain't a true BC Rich death metal machine without a Kahler lol.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

jco5055 said:


> I know Kahler gets no love (I had a Kerry King V and had no issues with it, but I probably would say my all time fave is the Lo Pro Edge), but idk it just seems like it ain't a true BC Rich death metal machine without a Kahler lol.




I would say for me the reason I wouldn't like it is fell most likely. I like the flatness of the floyd and my previous guitar before ever getting a floyd one was a fender with a trem so I am used to it since day one. Toms and hardtails like that feel weird to me. 

Haven't tried hipshots, but I am curious


----------



## wedge_destroyer

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I would say for me the reason I wouldn't like it is fell most likely. I like the flatness of the floyd and my previous guitar before ever getting a floyd one was a fender with a trem so I am used to it since day one. Toms and hardtails like that feel weird to me.
> 
> Haven't tried hipshots, but I am curious



Set up proper they dont feel as high as they look, plus its a big hole to fill to replace it and most of the kahler issues stem from the locknut. 

That is one sweet ironbird....


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

wedge_destroyer said:


> Set up proper they dont feel as high as they look, plus its a big hole to fill to replace it and most of the kahler issues stem from the locknut.
> 
> That is one sweet ironbird....




it is


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

So guys what I heard from a reputable source is that all of the guitars will be a 24 5/8" scale length and only 7s and 8s will be 25.5"

Dunno who made that call, but kinda dumb IMO. Definitely eliminates me from buying any 6 from them. Might consider a 7, but I would prefer a 26.5" for that


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Eh the 24 5/8th thing is what the old school ones were/are, but ive tried the 26.5 on a 7s and prefer 25.5 for 7s so thats good news for me, I can see the gripe through. It doesnt make sense for 8s to not be 26.5 though.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

wedge_destroyer said:


> Eh the 24 5/8th thing is what the old school ones were/are, but ive tried the 26.5 on a 7s and prefer 25.5 for 7s so thats good news for me, I can see the gripe through. It doesnt make sense for 8s to not be 26.5 though.




Agreed on the 8s and half agree and disagree on the 7s.

Although I don't own a 7..* YET *I see that once you go below a full step all around, the 26.5 works for keeping tension set correctly across all 7.

I get it they are trying to commemorate the past with that scale length, but hell If I don't like the way a 24.75" feels on me there is no way in hell I am dropping the cash on something like that.

Right now I am just waiting to see what schecter/esp has coming out for namm. Just sold my guitar today and I have been in the market to buy for awhile and BCR is testing my tolerance a little bit on their release.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Agreed on the 8s and half agree and disagree on the 7s.
> 
> Although I don't own a 7..* YET *I see that once you go below a full step all around, the 26.5 works for keeping tension set correctly across all 7.
> 
> I get it they are trying to commemorate the past with that scale length, but hell If I don't like the way a 24.75" feels on me there is no way in hell I am dropping the cash on something like that.
> 
> Right now I am just waiting to see what schecter/esp has coming out for namm. Just sold my guitar today and I have been in the market to buy for awhile and BCR is testing my tolerance a little bit on their release.



Yea i spent a long time on almost only exclusively on 24 5/8th, so that has no issue for me. Even though i prefer 25.5 these days.

7 wise i dont really go below A so i carry a heavier low B on that one which is also blocked. But its the tension and lower tuning where i see the advantages.

Just wait it out one will jump at you from somewhere most brands make solid ones just get out and try some why wait till namm.


----------



## Merrekof

At this point I'm more concerned with their guitars actually getting in stores than specs.. where are those batches of guitars anyway??


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Merrekof said:


> At this point I'm more concerned with their guitars actually getting in stores than specs.. where are those batches of guitars anyway??




Overseas right now is my guess. That same source said he is getting a batch of 120 of the new BCR on order. Said either this week or next week he will be getting em.

As for everyone else, who knows


----------



## spudmunkey

Here's to hoping the "New B.C. Rich" isn't the Atari of guitars (anybody else following the VCS shit-show? )


----------



## Merrekof

spudmunkey said:


> Here's to hoping the "New B.C. Rich" isn't the Atari of guitars (anybody else following the VCS shit-show? )


What? So these new BC Riches disappear and 30 years from now they find 1000 guitars in a landfill? And some former employee saying: "Man, we really didn't think that abalone through back then!"


----------



## spudmunkey

Ha! I was thinking more recent history. New owners attempt a relaunch, they tease with images of a new, flashy product but little hard data, dates continue to get pushed out, but have no fear because there's merch available! Little to no real information...and in the case of the Atari VCS, apparently money issues, and suppliers and lead product designers leaving, and nobody's sure if it'll actually come out at all.


----------



## Merrekof

spudmunkey said:


> Ha! I was thinking more recent history. New owners attempt a relaunch, they tease with images of a new, flashy product but little hard data, dates continue to get pushed out, but have no fear because there's merch available! Little to no real information...and in the case of the Atari VCS, apparently money issues, and suppliers and lead product designers leaving, and nobody's sure if it'll actually come out at all.


Yeah I know. 
Personally, I'm with MaxofMetal on this one. Most likely scenario is that they're low on cash. Possibly a delay in manufacturing or shipping and because of that they are missing out on incoming cash from the first batch. I don't know, just guessing.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Merrekof said:


> Yeah I know.
> Personally, I'm with MaxofMetal on this one. Most likely scenario is that they're low on cash. Possibly a delay in manufacturing or shipping and because of that they are missing out on incoming cash from the first batch. I don't know, just guessing.




Max speaking facts though. Their social media has been dead silent and hasnt been responding so i think the low on cash is the most probable theory.

Once the first batch ships out and they stary getting paid via distributors we should see some activity, unless the money made isnt enough


----------



## possumkiller

Maybe they were all killed like the beginning of commando.


----------



## zappatton2

possumkiller said:


> Maybe they were all killed like the beginning of commando.


As long as Arnie avenges them.


----------



## 777timesgod

Spaced Out Ace said:


> And Washburn was putting the Stephens cut on a lot more guitars. Probably cost a lot to license Fortin designs and Stephens cut. Curious if Buzz was also getting a cut for his tuning system.



The Stephen Carpenter cut is amazing, they should put it on all bolt-ons by law if possible. Logically Buzz must get a cut, otherwise he must have sold his system to them.



JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Saw this on FB and had a huge ass orgasm. Slick af. Everything I could ever want minus the kahler. Sure I could get that professional swapped if the guitar played good



We need more Kahlers in guitars and BC Rich has a duty to provide it. The reason behind the trash talk online is people not having enough experience with them and only seeing weird old discontinued models in rusty guitars from the 80s that were badly set up. My 2315 on the Moser is a monster of stability to the point of it being ridiculous, it keeps the strings disciplined like a drill sergeant on new recruits. 

Any news on that 8 string with the Floyd, I hope they do not troll people with a 24.75 scale, they are capable of anything really.


----------



## cardinal

777timesgod said:


> Any news on that 8 string with the Floyd, I hope they do not troll people with a 24.75 scale, they are capable of anything really.



The latest I think was that the prototype is 25.5" scale but that the production guitars (ha) should be 26.5".


----------



## StevenC

777timesgod said:


> The Stephen Carpenter cut is amazing, they should put it on all bolt-ons by law if possible.


Do you mean Stephen Davies?


----------



## gunshow86de

Just not the Stephen A Smith cut, where you pretend you aren't balding and your hairline has always been on top of your mid-skull.


----------



## jco5055

gunshow86de said:


> Just not the Stephen A Smith cut, where you pretend you aren't balding and your hairline has always been on top of your mid-skull.



To be fair I saw a Facebook Live video or something where he totally admitted to the fact he was covering up his balding/he had a hairline halfway up his head.


----------



## pastanator

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> They said that they are only doing neck thrus from now on. No bolt ons except for gun slingers.
> 
> 
> 
> This video is what i want, but with reversed 6 in line headstock, floyd, no inlays, and luminlay side dots



I was never into the widow headstock on anything but a v but seeing it now I firmly believe that a widow headstock on an ironbird is the pinnacle of what big dick energy is


----------



## xzacx

pastanator said:


> I was never into the widow headstock on anything but a v but seeing it now I firmly believe that a widow headstock on an ironbird is the pinnacle of what big dick energy is


It’s the proper headstock for a Beast too.


----------



## Rosal76

pastanator said:


> I was never into the widow headstock on anything but a v but seeing it now I firmly believe that a widow headstock on an ironbird is the pinnacle of what big dick energy is



Well, if you're interested, there's a music store that may have one. I'm not sure if they still have it or not but I still see it on their webstore. I actually thought it was the same Ironbird in the Vitriol Youtube video but the bridges are different. The B.C. Rich guitars in the below pictures are not new. I believe they were built in 2002.











The store is God of Thunder music is Fort Lauderdale, FL. for anyone who is curious.


----------



## gunshow86de

Rosal76 said:


> Well, if you're interested, there's a music store that may have one. I'm not sure if they still have it or not but I still see it on their webstore. I actually thought it was the same Ironbird in the Vitriol Youtube video but the bridges are different. The guitars in the below pictures are not new. I believe they were built in 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The store is God of Thunder music is Fort Lauderdale, FL. for anyone who is curious.



I appreciate that they have a "webmaster" maintaining their Geocities site in 2019. 
http://www.godofthundermusic.com/index2.htm

EDIT:
The webmaster's site is pretty slick too.
http://www.vortexualdreamsproduction.com/


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

pastanator said:


> I was never into the widow headstock on anything but a v but seeing it now I firmly believe that a widow headstock on an ironbird is the pinnacle of what big dick energy is




I agree. It is a beaut. If it had a floyd, my need for a kidney would drop immediately.


----------



## mlp187

Rosal76 said:


> Well, if you're interested, there's a music store that may have one. I'm not sure if they still have it or not but I still see it on their webstore. I actually thought it was the same Ironbird in the Vitriol Youtube video but the bridges are different. The B.C. Rich guitars in the below pictures are not new. I believe they were built in 2002.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The store is God of Thunder music is Fort Lauderdale, FL. for anyone who is curious.


OMFG that explorer. Yes please.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

xzacx said:


> It’s the proper headstock for a Beast too.


Beasts belong in a bonfire next to every Draco in existence.

Also reverse ASM headstocks or gtfo


----------



## Cynicanal

KnightBrolaire said:


> Beasts belong in a bonfire next to every Draco in existence.


Well, _you _belong in a bonfire next to every Strat in existence!_ _


----------



## wedge_destroyer

KnightBrolaire said:


> Beasts belong in a bonfire next to every Draco in existence.



No. The Zombie belongs in the bonfire not the Beast.



KnightBrolaire said:


> Also reverse ASM headstocks or gtfo



ASM/Harpoons, Yes
reversed, maybe


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

KnightBrolaire said:


> Beasts belong in a bonfire next to every Draco in existence.
> 
> Also reverse ASM headstocks or gtfo


Drakkar Tyranis or whatever his name is will not be happy when he sees this.


----------



## zappatton2

I'm still holding the fantasy of ordering another CS Beast, I'll never have student money again (pre-mortgage/marriage/obligations, sharing rent with five people), but I constantly regret selling my archtop Beast. If I could order another, I'd have it chambered, the sheer weight of it was its only flaw. But that dream hinges of the BCR custom shop remaining solvent, which quite certainly also hinges on the parent company. C'mon BCR, I imagine myself to have money, like, any year now, just keep being a thing please.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

KnightBrolaire said:


> Beasts belong in a bonfire next to every Draco in existence.
> 
> Also reverse ASM headstocks or gtfo




Beasts are dope. ASM Headstock is bland af.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

KnightBrolaire said:


> Beasts belong in a bonfire next to every Draco in existence.
> 
> Also reverse ASM headstocks or gtfo



You really shouldn't be so loudly wrong in public.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

The Virgin is one of my favorite models...and the Beast headstock is perfect with them. So perfect that they should stick with that combo permanently.


----------



## possumkiller

Didn't Ed Roman design the ball sack cutout for the widow headstock?


----------



## Merrekof

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The Virgin is one of my favorite models...and the Beast headstock is perfect with them. So perfect that they should stick with that combo permanently.


The beast headstock is one of the most badass headstocks in the history of headstocks!


----------



## vilk

possumkiller said:


> Didn't Ed Roman design the ball sack cutout for the widow headstock?


I thought it was Blackie Lawless.


----------



## possumkiller

vilk said:


> I thought it was Blackie Lawless.


I remember on his site Ed claimed to be one of many people that had a hand in designing it.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

vilk said:


> I thought it was Blackie Lawless.



Yep a widow headstock to match his Widow bass.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

possumkiller said:


> I remember on his site Ed claimed to be one of many people that had a hand in designing it.



I bet he would have told you he invented modern frets if someone had asked him about them.


----------



## tedtan

possumkiller said:


> I remember on his site Ed claimed to be one of many people that had a hand in designing it.



Ed Roman's claims should be taken with as much salt as Donald Trump's claims.


----------



## Cynicanal

wedge_destroyer said:


> I bet he would have told you he invented modern frets if someone had asked him about them.


He _did_ claim to invent the gold Evo fret material


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Cynicanal said:


> He _did_ claim to invent the gold Evo fret material



I must have missed that "article"


----------



## wedge_destroyer

tedtan said:


> Ed Roman's claims should be taken with as much salt as Donald Trump's claims.



That would apply to any politician..... but old Ed needed a damned mine


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Ed Roman is the equivalent to the douche at Essex Studios who over exaggerates and misleads people about the guitars he is selling.


----------



## Cynicanal

wedge_destroyer said:


> I must have missed that "article"


You missed a good one: http://www.edroman.com/techarticles/adamantium-frets.htm


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Ow my head hurts why did i click that i knew better, fuck.


Damn man you were right that was a doozey


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

So saw this on the insta page for the only store that seems to supply BCR now.

I just wanna know when this fuckin website commin. Been too fuckin long.

Also it seems they are sticking to 24 5/8 " even with floyds.

They better pump out a Beast or ironbird with a floyd and 25.5". Need somethin point in my life.


----------



## Vyn

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> View attachment 73576
> 
> 
> So saw this on the insta page for the only store that seems to supply BCR now.
> 
> I just wanna know when this fuckin website commin. Been too fuckin long.
> 
> Also it seems they are sticking to 24 5/8 " even with floyds.
> 
> They better pump out a Beast or ironbird with a floyd and 25.5". Need somethin point in my life.



I know they are completely different builders with different supply chains however I'm going to make this shot anyway - still delivered more guitars than Abasi


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I could see why some of the BC Rich guitars would be in 24.75", but a super strat or other shredtastic guitar in anything but 25.5" is weird.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I could see why some of the BC Rich guitars would be in 24.75", but a super strat or other shredtastic guitar in anything but 25.5" is weird.




EXACTLY! And the shredzillas on Red Blanket guitars website are really cool looking, but that scale length keeps me kept away from ever buying one. It doesn't make any sense why they would do that to a S style guitar. Absolutely, NONE.

Plus 25.5" for an 8? I wanna know the reasoning for that decision as well.


----------



## Vyn

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> EXACTLY! And the shredzillas on Red Blanket guitars website are really cool looking, but that scale length keeps me kept away from ever buying one. It doesn't make any sense why they would do that to a S style guitar. Absolutely, NONE.
> 
> Plus 25.5" for an 8? I wanna know the reasoning for that decision as well.



25.5" for an 8 makes sense if you're going after a high A - although really you need something closer to 23" to pull that shit off. It's why the FF RC8 was 25.5"-23.5" (at least I think that's what the scale length was).


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Heres some extended stuff. Looks pretty nice.






On the left is a pre production mockingbird. Different color fishmans, different inlay, different knob, and different headstock.

Without seeing the whole thing, you get a little bit of info of the 7 string FR guitar underneath it all. Just waiting for them to do the damn website. This guy at red blanket bought 120 guitars, hopefully that will be enough funds to get this site up and running


----------



## 777timesgod

gunshow86de said:


> Just not the Stephen A Smith cut, where you pretend you aren't balding and your hairline has always been on top of your mid-skull.





When you go bald people, you get a skull tattoo, you don't try to hide it! Our lord and saviour Kerry King shows the classy way of doing things. Also, we need another 7 string Kahlered EMG loaded NT model by BC Rich, otherwise I plan to buy a used one and throw an NGD myself (as soon as my BC Rich Eagle is sold that is).



KnightBrolaire said:


> Beasts belong in a bonfire next to every Draco in existence. Also reverse ASM headstocks or gtfo



The Draco may be the most uncomfortable guitar I ever played but the beast is super easy when sitting down surprisingly. Also, since it was designed by Brain Hoffman (ex-Deicide), it would not be harmed by the flames of the bonfire.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The Virgin is one of my favorite models...and the Beast headstock is perfect with them. So perfect that they should stick with that combo permanently.



Agreed. Also the irony of the body being designed by Moser and the headstock by Hoffman, two people that BC Rich sued, coming together in one axe is noted.



JustinRhoads1980 said:


> EXACTLY! And the shredzillas on Red Blanket guitars website are really cool looking, but that scale length keeps me kept away from ever buying one. It doesn't make any sense why they would do that to a S style guitar. Absolutely, NONE.
> 
> Plus 25.5" for an 8? I wanna know the reasoning for that decision as well.



This is BC Rich we are talking about, expect a 24.75 8 string with a Floyd Rose and only one single coil (Lipstick style Telecaster one) to be announced for full production soon.... with abalone binding for the Floyd of course.


----------



## Merrekof

Not that have the funds to buy a new guitar but these do look nice. Also about the scale, for the mockingbird, I can understand the 24,75". Superstrats should be 25,5 imo. I have no problem with 25,5" though, I found 27" to be too much and 26,5" is the limit for me. Except for multiscale but that is a whole different story.


----------



## trem licking

Still hoping they deliver on that 26.5/27" 8 with a Floyd (fingers crossed)


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

trem licking said:


> Still hoping they deliver on that 26.5/27" 8 with a Floyd (fingers crossed)




From the owner of red blanket guitars he said and i am not sure if this is 100 percent accurate, but they will be doing longer scale lengths


----------



## electriceye

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I could see why some of the BC Rich guitars would be in 24.75", but a super strat or other shredtastic guitar in anything but 25.5" is weird.



Well, in all fairness, why not do something that differentiates your product from the rest? Almost all of Glenn Tipton’s guitars were 24.75,” so it’s not exactly a big deal. It’s more personal preference. Hell, I don’t even know if I can tell. I have several BCRs, Jacksons and couple of other axes with mixed scale length. I’m too stupid to really notice anything.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

electriceye said:


> Well, in all fairness, why not do something that differentiates your product from the rest? Almost all of Glenn Tipton’s guitars were 24.75,” so it’s not exactly a big deal. It’s more personal preference. Hell, I don’t even know if I can tell. I have several BCRs, Jacksons and couple of other axes with mixed scale length. I’m too stupid to really notice anything.


I can tell. Shorter scale lengths are darker.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I can tell. Shorter scale lengths are darker.



I can tell as well but they are not always darker, my ironbird is very bright. The spacing is on frets is noticeable once you know what to look for but the real difference tends to be in tension for a given string gauge and tuning.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I can tell because it feels off to me. I have a 24.75" guitar and it feels weird to play since I mainly play 25.5"


----------



## Vyn

Main issue with 24.75 isn't the scale length itself, it's more that it's one of the features of a Les Paul and I fucking hate Les Pauls  24.75 BC Rich will be fine.


----------



## CapinCripes

Kramer nightswans and Peavy vandenberg's were 24.75 so are caparison horus's and charvel 750xl's and Jackson fusions. My 85 bcr st is 24.625. It's not as much of an oddity to have non 25.5 super strats as you guys make it out to be.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

The Vandenberg looks sweet, but I'd prefer a Richie Sambora Sig over the Nightswan.


----------



## 777timesgod

electriceye said:


> Well, in all fairness, why not do something that differentiates your product from the rest? Almost all of Glenn Tipton’s guitars were 24.75,” so it’s not exactly a big deal. It’s more personal preference. Hell, I don’t even know if I can tell. I have several BCRs, Jacksons and couple of other axes with mixed scale length. I’m too stupid to really notice anything.



As far as I remember from tab books, the older Judas Priest material were in E Tuning, I do not know what JP use now, they seem to be more modern and heavy but 8 strings players are known for their ultra low tunings most of the time (exceptions exist). The shorter scale may cause issues and the fret spacing that they are used to will not be there. It may be a case of BC rich doing something different for the sake of it. 
They have the metal body shapes which is enough, perhaps more 7 string Vs or a Beast?


----------



## possumkiller

I go between 25.5 and 24.75 all the time. I'm not really sure why it's such a big deal.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

The guitars I play now I mainly play because of the 25.5 scale. A similar model in the same company has the short scale and for some reason I just can't.

Moar because moar, I guess.


----------



## Damon67

Hey all, what Justin said is correct. BCR will have 26.5 scales coming. Unfortunately I think that means they won't be doing 25.5 going forward. We still do have 3 25.5 scales in stock. A matching 7 and 8 in spalted (they're one-offs with DiMarzios, no kill switch, and Diamond inlays) and a sweet ass sexy black thang with 8 strings.

Most likely the last of the 25.5s


----------



## spudmunkey

The fret ends look nicely finished.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Damon67 said:


> Hey all, what Justin said is correct. BCR will have 26.5 scales coming. Unfortunately I think that means they won't be doing 25.5 going forward. We still do have 3 25.5 scales in stock. A matching 7 and 8 in spalted (they're one-offs with DiMarzios, no kill switch, and Diamond inlays) and a sweet ass sexy black thang with 8 strings.
> 
> Most likely the last of the 25.5s



So does the possibly not doing 25.5 inch apply to 7 and 8s or just 8s?


----------



## BusinessMan

Damon67 said:


> Hey all, what Justin said is correct. BCR will have 26.5 scales coming. Unfortunately I think that means they won't be doing 25.5 going forward. We still do have 3 25.5 scales in stock. A matching 7 and 8 in spalted (they're one-offs with DiMarzios, no kill switch, and Diamond inlays) and a sweet ass sexy black thang with 8 strings.
> 
> Most likely the last of the 25.5s



Can you already buy these ones? That black 8 is hella nice


----------



## Damon67

BusinessMan said:


> Can you already buy these ones? That black 8 is hella nice



https://www.redblanketguitars.com/products/Shredzilla-Extreme-8-Exotic-Trans-Black-Satin-431.html


----------



## Damon67

wedge_destroyer said:


> So does the possibly not doing 25.5 inch apply to 7 and 8s or just 8s?



My understanding is they're all moving to 26.5. I'll know for sure when they hit our door, which should be 7-10 days. Actually, I should know Monday/Tuesday.


----------



## Hollowway

Damon67 said:


> My understanding is they're all moving to 26.5. I'll know for sure when they hit our door, which should be 7-10 days. Actually, I should know Monday/Tuesday.


Just so I can emotionally prepare myself, are you saying that some 26.5” 8s with Floyds may be arriving this week?


----------



## Bdtunn

Holy crap an update on Instagram!!


----------



## sell2792

Damon67 said:


> Hey all, what Justin said is correct. BCR will have 26.5 scales coming. Unfortunately I think that means they won't be doing 25.5 going forward. We still do have 3 25.5 scales in stock. A matching 7 and 8 in spalted (they're one-offs with DiMarzios, no kill switch, and Diamond inlays) and a sweet ass sexy black thang with 8 strings.
> 
> Most likely the last of the 25.5s


Surprisingly tasteful. I didn't think I'd actually like it.


----------



## Vyn

Their Instagram story is suddenly alive again


----------



## cip 123

Are these realistically gonna do we enough to come back around with actual decent specs?

I wouldn't mind some of these, but they're covered in abalone and from what I've read the scales are all wrong.


----------



## Andromalia

> The fret ends look nicely finished.


Apparently so is the brand.


----------



## cardinal

The scales mostly seem "right" for BC Rich. It's essentially the Gibson scale which is just fine. Lots of shredders get along fine with Les Pauls etc. And lots of folks tune down with Les Pauls etc. 

The exception was the 25.5" scale 8, which was a poor choice but it seems like 7s and 8s will now be 26.5".


----------



## KnightBrolaire

cip 123 said:


> Are these realistically gonna do we enough to come back around with actual decent specs?
> 
> I wouldn't mind some of these, but they're covered in abalone and from what I've read the scales are all wrong.


most people that are into 8 strings aren't going to touch these tbh. Between the godawful abalone and the shorter scale length, they'll probably wallow in a warehouse like the lucky 8 series.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Vyn said:


> Their Instagram story is suddenly alive again



The check must have finally cleared.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

the shredzillas look awesome. Love the trans black one the most. Seems i am gonna hold off on buying another guitar till these drop. I know the abalone is tacky, but wth.

If we get some stealths tho with a fr and 25.5" scale then i am really gonna have a problem.....

Also is it weird that these pictures made my day?


----------



## mogar

I'm really liking that Extreme series Mockingbird in matte black w/ evertune and fishmans. If they ever made a non-beveled warlock with those specs, i'd be all over it.


----------



## spudmunkey

I'm glad to see some "Shredzilla" models with some sort of top contouring. The boxy, flat-topped ones they showed up until today just looked heavy and uncomfortable. Here's to hoping that the contouring is making the edges thinner, and not that they kept those the same and made the middle thicker. 

in my head "Shredzilla" should be the no-holds-barred "shred monster" guitar, where every design element is designed to be fast, easy, and ergonomic. Not that it should be the Godzilla of guitars (big, clunky, awkward movements, heavy, etc).


----------



## Albake21

The shredzilla with the burl top and evertune is super nice, but of course they just had to screw it up with the extremely tacky abalone binding and inlays. Get rid of those, and I'd heavily consider buying one.


----------



## Rev2010

Oh man, I just picked up a Schecter SLS C7 Elite FR (it's awesome) but have always been a fan of BC Rich shapes, though their last go was horrible. I emailed them a few months ago asking if the company was ever gonna pull itself back up and start making guitars again but got no response. If they release a 26.5" scale 7-string Floyd Rose Mockingbird, Virgin, or Warlock I think I would absolutely have to pick one up, especially a Mockingbird or Virgin, and before you say it I'm not concerned with neck dive lol.


Rev.


----------



## mlp187

Fucking love that abalone. No sarcasm. Glad things are moving forward!!!


----------



## ExplorerMike

Definitely loving that rack full of Stealths.


----------



## broj15

I won't care until I see a finished iron bird


----------



## Mathemagician

Stupid sexy stealth.


----------



## dhgrind

I think they need to just go ahead and make a batch of matte black iron birds with reverse 6 headstocks and Floyd’s


----------



## crg123

Woah. Glad to see those Stealths.


----------



## Damon67

Hollowway said:


> Just so I can emotionally prepare myself, are you saying that some 26.5” 8s with Floyds may be arriving this week?


Yes, I can officially say we will have 26.5" 8s with Floyds on their way to our doorstep. Prepare.


----------



## Damon67

dhgrind said:


> I think they need to just go ahead and make a batch of matte black iron birds with reverse 6 headstocks and Floyd’s


100%


----------



## Damon67

crg123 said:


> Woah. Glad to see those Stealths.



They're badass


----------



## Damon67

Sorry, that was the wrong pic... It's a Custom Shop. Here's the new one


----------



## trem licking

Damon67 said:


> Yes, I can officially say we will have 26.5" 8s with Floyds on their way to our doorstep. Prepare.


YESSSSSSSSSSS!


----------



## dhgrind

Damon67 said:


> 100%



so can we do one of those group batches that ibanez normally does now. lets throw our money at stuff.


----------



## Damon67

I'm hoping to see an Ironbird prototype in the next few weeks.


----------



## manu80

Just love how it's going from "they're dead" to "Hurrah they're back" in just one day...


----------



## zappatton2

manu80 said:


> Just love how it's going from "they're dead" to "Hurrah they're back" in just one day...


As a long-time fan of the brand, it is a bit of a manic/depressive relationship. Highs are high, lows are low.


----------



## mogar

needs more 6-in-line curved headstocks


----------



## gunch

Hey 
Hey 

Where's the Eagles


----------



## gunshow86de

manu80 said:


> Just love how it's going from "they're dead" to "Hurrah they're back" in just one day...



Until I see Ironbirds, they're still dead to me.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I'm surprised no one has brought up the Ignitor in awhile.


----------



## Tuned

So who's building them [this time]?


----------



## R34CH

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm surprised no one has brought up the Ignitor in awhile.



As far as I'm concerned the Ignitor has always been the sexiest BC Rich offering. Takes me straight back to Iced Earth's _Alive in Athens _DVD. Mmm the memoriezzzz.


----------



## spudmunkey

Tuned said:


> So who's building them [this time]?



I believe most signs point to WMI.


----------



## Tuned

spudmunkey said:


> I believe most signs point to WMI.


My first thought. So, WMI's non-sigs boast a $1500 tag now? A bit rough to my eye, given some of them are equipped with Duncan Designeds. Many MIJs cost about that much in Japan


----------



## zappatton2

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm surprised no one has brought up the Ignitor in awhile.


Ignitors have always been custom shop only, so it's up to one of you wealthier fellows to make that a reality. I solemnly swear to click 'like' the moment you post your HNGD thread. Off you go, spec it up!!!


----------



## Deep Blue

I'm still in the "waiting to see an Ironbird" camp too, but I've been listening to a lot of Gigan lately and Eric Hersemann has me GASing for a Virgo with a Floyd (or Kahler).






Hoping to see something along those lines at some point in the future


----------



## Damon67

Tuned said:


> My first thought. So, WMI's non-sigs boast a $1500 tag now? A bit rough to my eye, given some of them are equipped with Duncan Designeds. Many MIJs cost about that much in Japan



Only the double necks have the Duncan Designs. All others will have either USA Dimarzio or Fishman Fluence pickups. The ones you've seen with Duncan Designs (prototypes and preproduction models) all will have a set of the DiMarzio pickups sent once they finally get them to us. The production stuff hits our door in a week. They'll have all the proper specs.


----------



## Rev2010

Damon67 said:


> The production stuff hits our door in a week. They'll have all the proper specs.



Would you happen to have any word on what shapes might be coming up in 7-string availability? 


Rev.


----------



## 777timesgod

Someone add to the title the word "resurrected"... 
I would like to see Rockfield pickups for the cheaper models and not the Duncan Designed crap. The Rockfield stuff was amazing for the price range they were serving. Also, after so many years Eric Rutan deserves a signature model and since he played 7 strings in the past (Ibanez JEM?) they can combine Ironbird + 7 and please two groups of people at the same time.


----------



## possumkiller

Y every1 h8n the DD pups?


----------



## manu80

Coz zr not as gr8 as rl duncans mayB ?


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

777timesgod said:


> Someone add to the title the word "resurrected"...
> I would like to see Rockfield pickups for the cheaper models and not the Duncan Designed crap. The Rockfield stuff was amazing for the price range they were serving. Also, after so many years Eric Rutan deserves a signature model and since he played 7 strings in the past (Ibanez JEM?) they can combine Ironbird + 7 and please two groups of people at the same time.





I agree with all of this. I loved the Rockfield Fatass in my Dracos...so much so I had them put in my other guitars.
Rockfield made good stuff and I wish they'd make a come back.


And it's criminal that Erik doesn't have a signature. The man has been a devout Ironbird player since forever and his "custom" was bought off a fan. If I recall correctly he's never bought a custom of his own. BC RICH...WHAT GIVES?!


----------



## spudmunkey

possumkiller said:


> Y every1 h8n the DD pups?





manu80 said:


> Coz zr not as gr8 as rl duncans mayB ?



M r ducks.
M r not ducks.
O s a r! Cdedbd wings?

L i b. M r ducks.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Spud, what the blimey hell are you on about, chap?


----------



## gunshow86de

possumkiller said:


> Y every1 h8n the DD pups?





manu80 said:


> Coz zr not as gr8 as rl duncans mayB ?





spudmunkey said:


> M r ducks.
> M r not ducks.
> O s a r! Cdedbd wings?
> 
> L i b. M r ducks.



Oh no, the wait for BC Rich updates has given these poor fellas strokes!


----------



## spudmunkey

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Spud, what the blimey hell are you on about, chap?



Wait, aren't we just vomiting alphabet soup into the reply boxes?


I'm suprised nobody recognized mine. It's an old joke my grandpa used to love.

"Them[they] are ducks."
"Them[they] are not ducks."
"Oh yes they are! See the itty-bitty wings?"
"Well, I'll be. Them[they] are ducks!.

Oh shit...am I a "boomer"?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

spudmunkey said:


> Wait, aren't we just vomiting alphabet soup into the reply boxes?
> 
> 
> I'm suprised nobody recognized mine. It's an old joke my grandpa used to love.
> 
> "Them[they] are ducks."
> "Them[they] are not ducks."
> "Oh yes they are! See the itty-bitty wings?"
> "Well, I'll be. Them[they] are ducks!.
> 
> Oh shit...am I a "boomer"?


#BoomerConfirmed


----------



## spudmunkey

Spaced Out Ace said:


> #BoomerConfirmed



Goddamnit. Well...I guess I have no choice, but to post things like...






What were we talking about? Oh, right. B.C. Rich.


----------



## Hollowway

We're just biding our time until @Damon67 posts more info amount the incoming awesomeness.


----------



## cardinal

Yeah @Damon67 dying to see you post a video of you just repeatedly dive bombing the low F# then some squealies. This is what the world needs.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

spudmunkey said:


> Wait, aren't we just vomiting alphabet soup into the reply boxes?
> 
> 
> I'm suprised nobody recognized mine. It's an old joke my grandpa used to love.
> 
> "Them[they] are ducks."
> "Them[they] are not ducks."
> "Oh yes they are! See the itty-bitty wings?"
> "Well, I'll be. Them[they] are ducks!.
> 
> Oh shit...am I a "boomer"?


Boomer confirmed


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

spudmunkey said:


> Wait, aren't we just vomiting alphabet soup into the reply boxes?
> 
> 
> I'm suprised nobody recognized mine. It's an old joke my grandpa used to love.
> 
> "Them[they] are ducks."
> "Them[they] are not ducks."
> "Oh yes they are! See the itty-bitty wings?"
> "Well, I'll be. Them[they] are ducks!.
> 
> Oh shit...am I a "boomer"?



HE NEED SOME MILK


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Semi-related

But

UHHHHH


----------



## MrWulf

Lmao


----------



## watson503

^
Yeah, I just saw that on Facebook...


----------



## gunch

KERRY NO NECK


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Semi-related
> 
> But
> 
> UHHHHH




Who tf endorses BCR now..


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Who tf endorses BCR now..



MetalCrushingPussyDestroyer6969 over on Instagram says they're the most "brutal fucking axes".


----------



## cardinal

Wow. I know he endorsed ESP way back when, but I just associate him with BC Rich so strongly. But I guess it's reasonable that he'd switch to a more stable company, and Dean seems a good fit. They certainly won't mind pushing out tons of sigs with whatever graphics he could imagine.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> MetalCrushingPussyDestroyer6969 over on Instagram says they're the most "brutal fucking axes".




Does his real name happen to be Kyle?



cardinal said:


> Wow. I know he endorsed ESP way back when, but I just associate him with BC Rich so strongly. But I guess it's reasonable that he'd switch to a more stable company, and Dean seems a good fit. They certainly won't mind pushing out tons of sigs with whatever graphics he could imagine.




Of course. With dean any graphic he wants


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Shitty tribal incoming, breaux!


----------



## gunch

MaxOfMetal said:


> MetalCrushingPussyDestroyer6969 over on Instagram says they're the most "brutal fucking axes".



hey don’t do the dude from Vitriol like that


----------



## possumkiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Semi-related
> 
> But
> 
> UHHHHH


Wow. I guess bcr really is dead.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

gunch said:


> hey don’t do the dude from Vitriol like that



Nah that Kyle is the EXCEPTION to the rule. The dude is another fuckin level and his warrior collection makes me envious to end


----------



## MASS DEFECT

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Semi-related
> 
> But
> 
> UHHHHH



lol bc rich lost its only valuable endorser. but apart from king, it can just be chris cannella of Deicide.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MASS DEFECT said:


> lol bc rich lost its only valuable endorser.




Seems like it. I don't know of anyone else who plays Vs, is overweight, short and stubby, and most importantly..... BALD.

I would want to know who else would it be if it is not Kerry, but all know that it is him


----------



## possumkiller

They could have left the body the same but the headstock is definitely an improvement.


----------



## manu80

At least they’ll be available compared to the bc rich line
So namm 2020 here we go !


----------



## MASS DEFECT

But Slayer is on a farewell tour...lmao


----------



## possumkiller

MASS DEFECT said:


> But Slayer is on a farewell tour...lmao


So? Dimebag has been dead for more than a decade.


----------



## manu80

This means he still got some projects after that
Country album for sure


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> MetalCrushingPussyDestroyer6969 over on Instagram says they're the most "brutal fucking axes".


 chris cannella of Deicide.[/QUOTE]

I never knew what he looked like, or ever heard his name...but am I the only one who thinks he looks like Hank from Breaking Bad, with a beard?


----------



## MASS DEFECT

possumkiller said:


> So? Dimebag has been dead for more than a decade.


Point taken. 

But Dime played MLs most of his life. Kerry would be playing this for at most 2 years. Plus his guesting with Anthrax John Bush era reunion and his next Sum 41 and Hatebreed cameos for 2021.

Oh well, Rhoads played the Jackson Concorde V for just a day. lol


----------



## gunshow86de

I suppose this is as good a reason as any to post this;


----------



## Seabeast2000

gunshow86de said:


> I suppose this is as good a reason as any to post this;



Props, LMAO.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

manu80 said:


> At least they’ll be available compared to the bc rich line
> So namm 2020 here we go !




Oof.




MASS DEFECT said:


> Oh well, Rhoads played the Jackson Concorde V for just a day. lol



Fake News


----------



## Viginez

possumkiller said:


> They could have left the body the same but the headstock is definitely an improvement.


i must admit, it's a mean design. even with the body horns.


----------



## Rosal76

MASS DEFECT said:


> lol bc rich lost its only valuable endorser. but apart from king, it can just be chris cannella of Deicide.


 
That's who I thought it was also but Chris stated on the Dean Facebook page that it wasn't him.



Viginez said:


> i must admit, it's a mean design. even with the body horns.



If it is Kerry in the ad, who I think we all can agree on it is, the V would look cool if it looked like this.





And this for the headstock but reversed.


----------



## Viginez

that is too standard for him


----------



## manu80

Viginez said:


> that is too standard for him


Should at least make one or two basics to sell...Not sure that the tribal shit will sell by dozens...


----------



## twguitar

Explains the lack of website....


----------



## Albake21

twguitar said:


> Explains the lack of website....


Well that's a damn shame, that's a LOT of damage!


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Glad we now know what the hiatus has been about. That is some serious damage.


----------



## manu80

Could be a reason...There could be some others who knows for sure ?Back to assumptions then....


----------



## spudmunkey

I missed the attached image, and thought y'all were still talking about KK...and it still sort of made sense.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> I missed the attached image, and thought y'all were still talking about KK...and it still sort of made sense.


----------



## pastanator

thats more damage than even flex seal can fix


----------



## gunshow86de

pastanator said:


> thats more damage than even flex seal can fix


----------



## gunshow86de

/watches their animated site tour Instagram thing



gunshow86de said:


> I WANT PICTURES OF IRONBIRDS!!!!


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

gunshow86de said:


> /watches their animated site tour Instagram thing




They better to commit to the stealths with floyds and ironbirds. Both 25.5'' and no bullshit.


----------



## BusinessMan

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> They better to commit to the stealths with floyds and ironbirds. Both 25.5'' and no bullshit.



Any 7 string stealths planned?


----------



## Evil Chuck

For those not aboard the Kerry King Hatetrain, here's a cool video from the year 1989. If you're reading this Kerry, some of us dgaf about your shitty tribal tattoos, we still love you.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Really wish they continued in the direction of the Power Metal album instead of some of the stuff that came after.


----------



## Hollowway

twguitar said:


> Explains the lack of website....


Well, that’s nice change. I’m used to that kind of stuff happening AFTER I buy a guitar from a luthier, causing a delay. Having it happen before I buy one is a nice change.


----------



## Merrekof

twguitar said:


> Explains the lack of website....


Meanwhile with the guys from Gibson: "meh, just glue the neck together and put the photo on your website. No one will notice!"


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Merrekof said:


> Meanwhile with the guys from Gibson: "meh, just glue the neck together and put the photo on your website. No one will notice!"


Is that why a lot of Gibson guitars need the frets leveled and crowned after purchase because they choke around the neck joint?


----------



## spudmunkey

Merrekof said:


> Meanwhile with the guys from Gibson: "meh, just glue the neck together and put the photo on your website. No one will notice!"


I still can't believe they photograghed a damaged guitar like that...


----------



## ExplorerMike

spudmunkey said:


> I still can't believe they photograghed a damaged guitar like that...


Where can we find this pic?


----------



## spudmunkey

ExplorerMike said:


> Where can we find this pic?



When they put up a new website with all of the 2019 models, there was at least one of them with a crack.  It was posted in one of the recent large Gibson threads, but on mobile and lazy.


----------



## spudmunkey

ExplorerMike said:


> Where can we find this pic?



Here's a thread talking about it.


https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/gibson-showcases-another-damaged-guitar.325810/#post-4797608


----------



## Mathemagician

Rosal76 said:


> That's who I thought it was also but Chris stated on the Dean Facebook page that it wasn't him.
> 
> 
> 
> If it is Kerry in the ad, who I think we all can agree on it is, the V would look cool if it looked like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this for the headstock but reversed.



Been saying this for years. Man I hate the dean/Washburn fork headstock. On everything. It’s just bad.


----------



## Merrekof

spudmunkey said:


> I still can't believe they photograghed a damaged guitar like that...


In a world were half of products are photoshopped anyway I still can't believe they didn't erase the crack..


----------



## BusinessMan

spudmunkey said:


> Here's a thread talking about it.
> 
> 
> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/gibson-showcases-another-damaged-guitar.325810/#post-4797608



OOF


----------



## Evil Chuck

spudmunkey said:


> Here's a thread talking about it.
> 
> 
> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/gibson-showcases-another-damaged-guitar.325810/#post-4797608


That's actually pretty sad.


----------



## spudmunkey

Wait...of all the places in the Bay Area that could get them...the first ones are going to Starving Musician in Santa Clara?

I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense...it is where this is hanging, afterall...


----------



## gunshow86de

^
Damn, they out-uglied the Draco.


----------



## cwhitey2

spudmunkey said:


> Wait...of all the places in the Bay Area that could get them...the first ones are going to Starving Musician in Santa Clara?
> 
> I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense...it is where this is hanging, afterall...


I puked a little from that.


----------



## ExplorerMike

spudmunkey said:


> Wait...of all the places in the Bay Area that could get them...the first ones are going to Starving Musician in Santa Clara?
> 
> I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense...it is where this is hanging, afterall...



Wow....that’s gnarly in all the wrong ways.


----------



## Mathemagician

spudmunkey said:


> Wait...of all the places in the Bay Area that could get them...the first ones are going to Starving Musician in Santa Clara?
> 
> I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense...it is where this is hanging, afterall...



What the ficketyfuck is that?


----------



## spudmunkey

Mathemagician said:


> What the ficketyfuck is that?


A very good question.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Completely random....but they're really going all in on this Shredzilla model. I wonder if they had to cut Toho Productions in for the rights to use the zilla thing or if somehow they managed to get away with it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Completely random....but they're really going all in on this Shredzilla model. I wonder if they had to cut Toho Productions in for the rights to use the zilla thing or if somehow they managed to get away with it.



Toho's trademark on "zilla" has expired.


----------



## spudmunkey

spudmunkey said:


> Wait...of all the places in the Bay Area that could get them...the first ones are going to Starving Musician in Santa Clara?
> 
> I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense...it is where this is hanging, afterall...



Dont bother stopping...none there yet.


----------



## BusinessMan

spudmunkey said:


> Wait...of all the places in the Bay Area that could get them...the first ones are going to Starving Musician in Santa Clara?
> 
> I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense...it is where this is hanging, afterall...



Don’t what y’all are talking about, but this is beautiful. I mean look at those angles!!! !!!!?.?):$3!($ ukdnbwggsb


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

spudmunkey said:


> Wait...of all the places in the Bay Area that could get them...the first ones are going to Starving Musician in Santa Clara?
> 
> I suppose it makes a certain amount of sense...it is where this is hanging, afterall...


I was about to post that the img was dead and I couldn't see what everyone was talking about. Everyone was saying it's hideous and worse than the Draco and I wanted to see it. I hit reply to post this and the images popped up. I literally yelled out loud. Jesus...and I like weird shapes but..these motherfuckers need some milk


----------



## spudmunkey

It's oddly proportionate with the bass tuners.


----------



## jco5055

I am tentatively excited to still see the official lineup, I've owned 2 BC Rich's and I'd say they're 2/2 for quality, a Marc Rizzo Stealth 7 and a KKV (like the mid tier model)...only issue was the Stealth had terrible neck dive.


----------



## A-Branger

EDIT: I just realized theres a KK/Dean tread


----------



## Rev2010

jco5055 said:


> I am tentatively excited to still see the official lineup, I've owned 2 BC Rich's and I'd say they're 2/2 for quality, a Marc Rizzo Stealth 7 and a KKV (like the mid tier model)...only issue was the Stealth had terrible neck dive.



I had a BC Rich Warlock with a walnut burl top, was a limited run from TheMusicFarm. It actually cost me $100 LESS than the same exact production model in regular black. No joke, the guitar build was so flawless that I always said it's on the same quality level of my custom Jackson Kelly 7. I still stand by that today, though I am so sad to have sold it. Only sold it when I made a move to Hawaii (obviously I came back to NY) and couldn't bring _everything_ with me. I still think about it often and kick myself for letting it go. I had the action low with zero fret buzz, perfect intonation, perfect tuning stability, etc.

I swear, if they come out with a 26.5" 7-string Virgin, Warlock, or Mockingbird with inline headstock I am buying immediately!


Rev.


----------



## Chanson

Rosal76 said:


> That's who I thought it was also but Chris stated on the Dean Facebook page that it wasn't him.
> 
> 
> 
> If it is Kerry in the ad, who I think we all can agree on it is, the V would look cool if it looked like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this for the headstock but reversed.



That dean v is the best I've ever seen that headstock look. Is it a custom?


----------



## Rosal76

Chanson said:


> That dean v is the best I've ever seen that headstock look. Is it a custom?



It is. Custom built for Karl Sanders. Founder/guitarist for Nile.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Bdtunn

^ I threw up in my mouth a little bit


----------



## Hollowway

How long until BC Rich gets hit with a Five Finger Cease and Desist for that Coke guitar?


----------



## gunshow86de

Is everyone in that band named Kyle?


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I want that shredzilla 8 with Floyd, but after seeing those shots of 5FDP I feel the way I would if saw an Affliction shirt I liked. Just trying to figure out how to process those emotions.


----------



## Cynicanal

From Slayer to Five Dick Prostate Massage might be the biggest downgrade in endorsers in guitar history.


----------



## Mathemagician

They got players in a huge rock band with a solid fan base and are likely cheaper to keep happy than Kerry King once his 20 year contract ran out (I’m making that last part up).


----------



## Hollowway

Cynicanal said:


> From Slayer to Five Dick Prostate Massage might be the biggest downgrade in endorsers in guitar history.


I like to imagine myself as someone who has matured into a responsible adult with a high brow sense of humor, and you post something like this and I laugh out loud.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

That dudes beard dreads are the most foul looking things I've ever seen. How can he look in a mirror every morning and not think "Man, I look like a fucking idiot with these things hanging from my face?".


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Cynicanal said:


> From Slayer to Five Dick Prostate Massage might be the biggest downgrade in endorsers in guitar history.


I dunno... Kerry King isn't that great. His "solos" are just random noise.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> That dudes beard dreads are the most foul looking things I've ever seen. How can he look in a mirror every morning and not think "Man, I look like a fucking idiot with these things hanging from my face?".


They all look pretty ridiculous.


----------



## Cynicanal

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I dunno... Kerry King isn't that great. His "solos" are just random noise.


When he plays them live, he plays them the exact same way every time. You can't call something that happens consistently "random".


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Cynicanal said:


> When he plays them live, he plays them the exact same way every time. You can't call something that happens consistently "random".


But you can call it shitty....because it is


----------



## Cynicanal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> But you can call it shitty....because it is


No u


----------



## Merrekof

Cynicanal said:


> From Slayer to Five Dick Prostate Massage might be the biggest downgrade in endorsers in guitar history.


The BC Rich artist roster hasn't been exactly impressive since the 2000's imo. Kerry King was the only big name. Then you had 5FDP, those guys from Black Veil Brides (Absolutely hideous bass guitar btw). The bass player from Trivium and Vortex (ex-Dimmu Borgir) both had their signature Warlock. Can't even remember other artists atm..


----------



## Cynicanal

Terrence and Derek from Suffocation were with BC Rich for a long time. There's also Pat from Cannibal Corpse, Erik from Hate Eternal, and the Hoffman Bros., although I don't know if they were endorsers or just always played BC Rich.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Cynicanal said:


> Terrence and Derek from Suffocation were with BC Rich for a long time. There's also Pat from Cannibal Corpse, Erik from Hate Eternal, and the Hoffman Bros., although I don't know if they were endorsers or just always played BC Rich.



The Hoffman Bros were endorsees, and even helped design the Beast.


----------



## Cynicanal

I knew Brian designed the Beast, but he also had Moser build him a lot of guitars (that he played onstage) in that era, so I wasn't certain if he was actually an endorser or not. Good to know he was!


----------



## zappatton2

Cynicanal said:


> I knew Brian designed the Beast, but he also had Moser build him a lot of guitars (that he played onstage) in that era, so I wasn't certain if he was actually an endorser or not. Good to know he was!


What I would do for a Beastmaster, had it not been litigated into oblivion.


----------



## Deep Blue

It's the extreme metal endorsees and players that first turned me on to the brand. The suffocation guys, Erik Rutan, Chuck, Trey, Eric Hersemann, and more recently the Blood Incantation and Vitriol guys. The fact that KK was even an endorsee had completely slipped my mind until recently. That said, I like the KK "noise" solos, but then I love trem wankery


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Cynicanal said:


> I knew Brian designed the Beast, but he also had Moser build him a lot of guitars (that he played onstage) in that era, so I wasn't certain if he was actually an endorser or not. Good to know he was!



He was used in some official BCR marketing materials, and was listed by them as an endorser. 

That was around the time BCR was circling the drain again, so it's likely he just wanted guitars, which Moser could provide.


----------



## Jake

While everyone may hate on Five Finger Death Punch are we really acting like they haven't been playing BC Rich for forever now? This isn't news? I remember seeing plenty of NGDs for that natural Zoltan sig when it first came out and that was awhile ago.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Jake said:


> While everyone may hate on Five Finger Death Punch are we really acting like they haven't been playing BC Rich for forever now? This isn't news? I remember seeing plenty of NGDs for that natural Zoltan sig when it first came out and that was awhile ago.



Kael had a Spector signature model since 2013. Interesting to see him move on from there considering how much attention they gave him and the quality of workmanship.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Zoltan did some endorsement hopping for awhile. He ditched BCR, then went with Dean, then Diamond/DBZ, and looks like he's back with BCR.

I'll be honest, even though Kael's Spectors are probably better instruments, holy shit they looked ugly.

EDIT: I'm also guessing the guitars Zoltan are using are guitars he used before he moved onto Dean.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Zoltan did some endorsement hopping for awhile. He ditched BCR, then went with Dean, then Diamond/DBZ, and looks like he's back with BCR.
> 
> I'll be honest, even though Kael's Spectors are probably better instruments, holy shit they looked ugly.



For years it was just a REX with no inlays, and murdered out.

The newer design was all Kael, at least that's what both sides said when it was released. Still not too bad though. 

I don't really count the stupid brass knuckle bridge plate, as they were easily removed.


----------



## spudmunkey

Website launches Thursday, apparently.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

JHS' new website launches June! No, Summer! No, End of Summer! No... scratch that. JHS' new website lauches SOMETIME!

All joking aside, this is why it's a great idea (hint hint, nudge nudge, JHS) why you don't shit can your old website while working on your new one. You keep the old one up UNTIL the new one is finished. I thought businesses had learned this shit in, what, at least by 2002?

Here is to hoping BC Rich has a functioning, bug free (or mostly, anyways) website as planned on Thursday.


----------



## Cynicanal

Jake said:


> While everyone may hate on Five Finger Death Punch are we really acting like they haven't been playing BC Rich for forever now? This isn't news? I remember seeing plenty of NGDs for that natural Zoltan sig when it first came out and that was awhile ago.


I don't pay a lot of attention to Five Guys One Cup, but I was under the impression their guitarist was with Diamond.


----------



## Andromalia

As long as there is no ecommerce module, doing a decent site is piss easy nowadays. My grandma could do it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Cynicanal said:


> I don't pay a lot of attention to Five Guys One Cup, but I was under the impression their guitarist was with Diamond.


Yeah like I said, he endorsement hopped for a bit. I'm hoping if they bring back his sig model, it's the old one he used to have.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah like I said, he endorsement hopped for a bit. I'm hoping if they bring back his sig model, it's the old one he used to have.


It'll likely be gaudy as all get out.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> Website launches Thursday, apparently.




how do you know?


----------



## Hollowway

Cynicanal said:


> I don't pay a lot of attention to Five Guys One Cup, but I was under the impression their guitarist was with Diamond.



May this point I’m just following the thread for the “Five...” names.


----------



## spudmunkey

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> how do you know?



In a recent post, people asked, and the BC Rich account responded.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Hollowway

So we can assume that Music Farm and Red Blanket are on instructions to not talk about them until Thursday?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hollowway said:


> So we can assume that Music Farm and Red Blanket are on instructions to not talk about them until Thursday?




Red blanket has revealed little details


----------



## Hollowway

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Red blanket has revealed little details


Yeah, I asked him a little earlier, and he said he’s hoping the new ones will arrive later this week.


----------



## pastanator

the new website is up

http://www.bcrich.com


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Looks like an abalone parade.


----------



## gunshow86de

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Looks like an abalone parade.



And they forgot to invite the Ironbirds.


----------



## pastanator

the 8 string is also noticeably absent. i dont mind the abalone on some models but i sure wish it wasnt on all of them


----------



## Vyn

I'm guessing it was a case of "Fuck, we just need to launch this thing now and we can add the full range later"


----------



## Cynicanal

I have to say, that hardtail legacy Mockingbird is _sweet_. If I had a reason to buy another guitar, one of those would be high on the list.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I don't see anything. just a sign up page.


----------



## mlp187

That blue shredzilla is really doing it for me. I also am liking the warlocks quite a bit!


----------



## pastanator

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I don't see anything. just a sign up page.


 On mobile you have to click the three lines in the upper right hand corner but on desktop there’s just stuff to click towards the top


----------



## Albake21

Damn, just trying to see how much they will charge for the Shredzilla 6 with the Evertune. Besides the Abolone, it's damn near perfect.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I would buy an extreme shredzilla but no FLOYD??? WTH.

The prophecy series is promising, but the color choices are gross and the maple boards accentuate the abalone even more along with the color


----------



## Hollowway

Pardon my French, but where the fuck is the 8 with Floyd? Did they succumb to the generic, “no one will buy one” bug?


----------



## Deep Blue

Yeah I've got nothing but a sign up page as well. I was afraid of no Ironbirds after seeing the preview on their instagram page, but optimistic that they'll be added later.


----------



## spudmunkey

Vyn said:


> I'm guessing it was a case of "Fuck, we just need to launch this thing now and we can add the full range later"



Same. They even created catagories that are empty or only have 1 instrument in it, if you look at the basses.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> Same. They even created catagories that are empty or only have 1 instrument in it, if you look at the basses.




Maybe they are going to add more soon? Maybe it isnt the full lineup just yet?

I hope so because i want a shredzilla with a floyd or an ironbird with a floyd or a stealth with a floyd. 25.5 inch scale length and no bullshit


----------



## spudmunkey

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> 25.5 inch scale length and no bullshit



I thought someone with inside info earlier in this thread confirmed that while early ones were built with 25.5, that it would be shorter scale, except for 8 strings, etc.


----------



## Chanson

Honestly I would buy one if it didn't have the abalone. I'm not entirely opposed to it, it looks good for some of the Schecter stuff but it looks so cheesy with the pointy shapes. 

I do like the look of the Stealth, however. Even the splalted maple one looks kinda cool to me. Wish the inlays were the diamonds like on the "Chuck" Stealth.


----------



## Chanson

Honestly, judging on people's requests online, it seems like they're missing huge opportunity not putting out several Stealth and Ironbird models.


----------



## Vyn

Chanson said:


> Honestly, judging on people's requests online, it seems like they're missing huge opportunity not putting out several Stealth and Ironbird models.



Just because they make them doesn’t mean that enough people will buy them to make them viable in the numbers they’d have to order.


----------



## kisielk

Not gonna lie, that double-neck is looking mighty tempting depending on the price.


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> Pardon my French, but where the fuck is the 8 with Floyd? Did they succumb to the generic, “no one will buy one” bug?


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> I thought someone with inside info earlier in this thread confirmed that while early ones were built with 25.5, that it would be shorter scale, except for 8 strings, etc.




well so far on the site it says that the shredzillas are 25.5". And to add.








These are from their socials. It looks like the shredzilla has little shredzilla inlays? That is hilarious and tacky at the same time.

I think that they maybe are still taking pictures and uploading shit. At least that is what I can hope.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Chanson said:


> Honestly I would buy one if it didn't have the abalone. I'm not entirely opposed to it, it looks good for some of the Schecter stuff but it looks so cheesy with the pointy shapes.
> 
> I do like the look of the Stealth, however. Even the splalted maple one looks kinda cool to me. Wish the inlays were the diamonds like on the "Chuck" Stealth.




Schecter has really toned down on the abalone and thank god. My two favorite guitars are schecter. They just work for me.



Vyn said:


> Just because they make them doesn’t mean that enough people will buy them to make them viable in the numbers they’d have to order.



Well think about it. Solar guitars does stuff like that, but they do limited runs. I think BCR should do that where they just have small batches of shit like that and keep it going like solar does. I think what solar is doing is fantastic with that shit.

Seriously though, fr ironbirds and stealths will sell. There is a MASSIVE demand for those. Like if you look at their insta and fb, those are the things the majority of people ask for more than anything. While yes they should be cautious, a vast majority of the interested consumer market is telling them to release those. They should capitalize on it.



kisielk said:


> Not gonna lie, that double-neck is looking mighty tempting depending on the price.



I think red blanket has em for like $1500+? Im not entirely sure on the price of the production since the ones available right now are pre-production


----------



## spudmunkey

I kinda wish the string alignment on that 6 was as good as what you can get on a Frank Stallone Guitars dotcom guitar.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> I kinda wish the string alignment on that 6 was as good as what you can get on a Frank Stallone Guitars dotcom guitar.



u talkin about the one with the evertune? Does look kinda off, but doesn't the evertune affect that?


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

spudmunkey said:


> I kinda wish the string alignment on that 6 was as good as what you can get on a Frank Stallone Guitars dotcom guitar.


Yeah, but really the only way to get proper string alignment anymore is to just buy the Tiger guitar by Frank Stallone. Otherwise you’re taking a risk.


----------



## Hollowway

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Yeah, but really the only way to get proper string alignment anymore is to just buy the Tiger guitar by Frank Stallone. Otherwise you’re taking a risk.


----------



## Hollowway

@spudmunkey did you find that shredzilla8 on their website? I can’t find it on there.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hollowway said:


> @spudmunkey did you find that shredzilla8 on their website? I can’t find it on there.




well from the photograph it looks like they are making them, but they haven't gotten em up yet. They do look dope and if they have that coming in a 6 im ready


----------



## Hollowway

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> well from the photograph it looks like they are making them, but they haven't gotten em up yet. They do look dope and if they have that coming in a 6 im ready


Yeah, we know they've made a couple, which are at Music Farm. But, we don't know that they're making more, or if they're going to be the rumored 26.5" scale length. I'm not seeing them on the webpage, which is why I'm concerned that maybe they didn't make production models yet.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, we know they've made a couple, which are at Music Farm. But, we don't know that they're making more, or if they're going to be the rumored 26.5" scale length. I'm not seeing them on the webpage, which is why I'm concerned that maybe they didn't make production models yet.



I am going to infer a bit and say that they are still taking pictures of everything and getting everything uploaded, or they are holding off the full lineup till a given date


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Sly's brother makes guitars now?


----------



## ADADAD

Wish they'd specify not only neck thickness but also shape. Hope someone with a contour gauge gets one.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

ADADAD said:


> Wish they'd specify not only neck thickness but also shape. Hope someone with a contour gauge gets one.



The shredzilla ultra slim is a 20mm to 21.5 mm


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> @spudmunkey did you find that shredzilla8 on their website? I can’t find it on there.



It was shared on Instagram, as a "story" (basically a way to share something temporarily).


----------



## Hollowway

spudmunkey said:


> It was shared on Instagram, as a "story" (basically a way to share something temporarily).



today? If that was shared today that means they’re still behind these, and we should be seeing them soon.

And I love that you guys have been following the Frank Stallone thread.


----------



## spudmunkey

Hollowway said:


> today? If that was shared today that means they’re still behind these, and we should be seeing them soon.



Yep, we posted them here within an hour of trem being posted there.


----------



## spudmunkey

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Sly's brother makes guitars now?




https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/celebrity-launches-new-guitar-company-you-guessed-it.338857/


----------



## twguitar

Hollowway said:


> Pardon my French, but where the fuck is the 8 with Floyd? Did they succumb to the generic, “no one will buy one” bug?



Don’t worry, not everything is on the site yet they just wanted to get it up Thursday. I’ve been told 26.5 scale in the 8s but if enough people kick up a fuss they are listening and changing specs


----------



## Andromalia

That's a pro web coder for sure.


----------



## vilk

The 50th mock would be so sweet without that atrocious inlay. I mean, when Gibson did it all anyone did was bitch about it, and it wasn't even a quarter of the size of this shit. Why didn't they pay attention?


----------



## Bdtunn

Man these guitars bring me back! I want that white warlock as per that old sepultura video from Brazil. Butttttt got to ditch that abalone. They would look sooooooo much cleaner without it.


----------



## zenonshandro

Am I the only one who was jonesing for 7's with Floyd's? I was disappointed to see basically nothing on the site, as well as a miss on my hail-mary hope of having a 7-string Floyd JRV to ponder buying.


----------



## zenonshandro

spudmunkey said:


> I kinda wish the string alignment on that 6 was as good as what you can get on a Frank Stallone Guitars dotcom guitar.


----------



## Merrekof

zenonshandro said:


> Am I the only one who was jonesing for 7's with Floyd's? I was disappointed to see basically nothing on the site, as well as a miss on my hail-mary hope of having a 7-string Floyd JRV to ponder buying.


Not that I'm in the market for a new guitar but yeah, the 7-string departement is underwhelming. The 7-string market is already saturated with superstrats and they add another one. I feel a 7 string Warlock or Mock would've set them apart from the rest.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Merrekof said:


> Not that I'm in the market for a new guitar but yeah, the 7-string departement is underwhelming. The 7-string market is already saturated with superstrats and they add another one. I feel a 7 string Warlock or Mock would've set them apart from the rest.




A 7 string stealth or ironbird with a floyd and 26.5" would be fantastic. Just imagine


----------



## MASS DEFECT

oh my god. all that abalone brings me back to 2001. although it kinda works for the burl shredzilla. since it looks so flamboyant anyway...


----------



## A-Branger

vilk said:


> The 50th mock would be so sweet without that atrocious inlay. I mean, when Gibson did it all anyone did was bitch about it, and it wasn't even a quarter of the size of this shit. Why didn't they pay attention?


fully agree, that top (or at least that specific one from the photo) looks fucking amazing. But that huge "50th!" inlay is bit too much

I get they need to do something, but they could have find something bit more subtle?


----------



## cardinal

IMHO 26.5 or 27" is the right scale for an 8-string. Tempted by the Shredzilla 8FR if it can get out of the gate. A Warlock/Mockingbird/Ironbird 8FR would be an immediate buy. And honestly I'd immediately go for the Shredzilla if I hadn't spend a ton of money on custom 8s with Floyd's already.


----------



## Merrekof

Man, think about the missed oppertunities here. If one wants a 7 or 8 string superstrat, one will likely end up with an Ibanez, LTD, Jackson,.. 
For an extreme shaped 7 or 8..well they could have taken the lead. Warlock, Warbeast, Stealth, Mock, Virgin, Ironbird, Bich.. all these shapes. Damn, use marketing and bring in an Ignitor. There is definetely a market for these shapes.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> Man, think about the missed oppertunities here. If one wants a 7 or 8 string superstrat, one will likely end up with an Ibanez, LTD, Jackson,..
> For an extreme shaped 7 or 8..well they could have taken the lead. Warlock, Warbeast, Stealth, Mock, Virgin, Ironbird, Bich.. all these shapes. Damn, use marketing and bring in an Ignitor. There is definetely a market for these shapes.



They need cash flow, so they're going for the easy stuff: super Strats, Chuck-esque Stealth, and a Slash-esque Mockingbird.


----------



## Merrekof

MaxOfMetal said:


> They need cash flow, so they're going for the easy stuff: super Strats, Chuck-esque Stealth, and a Slash-esque Mockingbird.


Yeah thought of that while typing. But what is the biggest gamble? Coming out with original, extreme shapes that no one else has or trying to sell a superstrat that everyone else has..?
That being said, nothing sells better than a plain black superstrat with a 25,5" scale and two humbuckers..


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> Yeah thought of that while typing. But what is the biggest gamble? Coming out with original, extreme shapes that no one else has or trying to sell a superstrat that everyone else has..?
> That being said, nothing sells better than a plain black superstrat with a 25,5" scale and two humbuckers..



It's not like they aren't doing any of the old shapes. They still have Vs, Stealth, Mockingbird, Warlock, Warbeast, and Bich.


----------



## Merrekof

Yes, I didn't mention I was thinking about 7 or 8 stringers.


----------



## Cynicanal

I must be getting old; seeing the Warbeast listed as an "old" shape weirds me out.


----------



## Chanson

Cynicanal said:


> I must be getting old; seeing the Warbeast listed as an "old" shape weirds me out.



Plus, why even bother with the Warbeast? I mean I like it but with already offering the Warlock, why not make an Ironbird, or one of the other shapes instead.


----------



## Merrekof

Cynicanal said:


> I must be getting old; seeing the Warbeast listed as an "old" shape weirds me out.


Haha yeah, I bought one of those Deluxe Warbeasts when they were released. What year was that, 2010?? That is almost a decade ago..


----------



## Merrekof

That Warbeast was actually a great mock up imo. Combining the Warlock and Beast takes best of both shapes and looks cooler than the Warlock. 

Does anyone remember those V mock ups by the way? Kerry King played a BC Rich V with Beast and Zakk Wylde had his Gibson V with SG mock up. That train never left the station, man those things were ugly!


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Merrekof said:


> That Warbeast was actually a great mock up imo. Combining the Warlock and Beast takes best of both shapes and looks cooler than the Warlock.
> 
> Does anyone remember those V mock ups by the way? Kerry King played a BC Rich V with Beast and Zakk Wylde had his Gibson V with SG mock up. That train never left the station, man those things were ugly!



Yep..their attempt at the ML style thing. As a fan of the ML shape I wanted to like it..ESPECIALLY because I want a pointy "metal" version of the ML but, no. Kerry's version was almost but something fell way off the rails


----------



## Deep Blue

I actually really like that spalted maple extreme series warlock, I wouldn't normally choose to have abalone everywhere but it doesn't even bother me on that guitar.


----------



## Deep Blue

Also, I really appreciate the high res detail images they have on the site.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I wouldn't actually spec out a guitar with that much abalone, but I'm willing to look the other way for an 8 with a trem. And if it looks like that blue one a few posts ago, I'd be totally happy. I don't have a Liberace design guitar currently, so I guess I could live with one.


----------



## Bdtunn

The shredzilla ultra slim neck doesn’t seem so ultra. The stealth on the website has it listed at 20mm on the first to 21.5 at the 12th.....


----------



## Hollowway

Bdtunn said:


> The shredzilla ultra slim neck doesn’t seem so ultra. The stealth on the website has it listed at 20mm on the first to 21.5 at the 12th.....



It’s American, so “ultra slim” means not as obese as average.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

The couple BC Rich's I've played (not of this run, mind you) were pretty thick. The exceptions were the few 80s and 90s ones I've played, which if memory serves is 3 versus the 5 or 6 I've played that were relatively more recently made (2000s).


----------



## ADADAD

Slim may refer to the nut width (41mm) rather than thickness


----------



## Cynicanal

Those "thickness" specs sound pretty close to my Beast; I haven't measured it, but it feels very similar in thickness to an ESP Thin-U, but more rounded and with a wider string spacing.


----------



## Merrekof

Only BC Rich neck I know of from first hand experience is a Deluxe Warbest from 2010-ish. That has a pretty thin neck, not Ibanez Wizard thin but still thinner than "normal". Possibly the same neck as the above mentioned Beast? IIRC the Mockingbird (also 2010-ish) neck was a lot thicker, more like Les Paul thickness. I would expect the Shredzilla to be 20 at first to 21,5mm anyway.


----------



## Solodini

It seems bizarre to have so little with the Widow headstock. I always thought of that as one of the most identifying features of a BC Rich, especially on Warlocks, Vs and suchlike. 6 in-line for Stealths and Shredzillas, sure, but it seems like they're missing a trick by leaving off the Widow. Maybe that's just me being a millenial who grew up watching Mick Thompson with his Warlock and Kerry King with his V.


----------



## vilk

Solodini said:


> It seems bizarre to have so little with the Widow headstock. I always thought of that as one of the most identifying features of a BC Rich, especially on Warlocks, Vs and suchlike. 6 in-line for Stealths and Shredzillas, sure, but it seems like they're missing a trick by leaving off the Widow. Maybe that's just me being a millenial who grew up watching Mick Thompson with his Warlock and Kerry King with his V.



I also thought the widow headstock was cool af when I was 14 and begged my parents to buy me a warlock for christmas even though I had a perfectly good Yamaha that I couldn't play, but now as an adult I just think it takes what would otherwise be a somewhat neutral heavy metal guitar shape that evokes a _fantasy _aesthetic (per the name) and turns into a 2edgy4u muh tribal tatz nu metal guitar. Which is ironic, because it was actually made for Blackie Lawless which is a classic heavy metal player, not an early 2000s angsty hot topic band.

I still have my old warlock and I still play it pretty regularly but god do I wish it had a sweet 80s/90s reverse inline headstock. The modern ones are OK, not as good as they used to be, but still just way way nicer looking than a stupid widow headstock.


----------



## zappatton2

I prefer inline myself on a Warlock, but I don't hate the Widow headstock. I did have it on an NJ Warlock 7-string I had years ago, it really amped up the neck-dive which really was bothersome, but if I ever get my hands on an actual Widow bass or guitar, no other headstock will do!


----------



## oppgulp

Not fan of the Widow headstock, unless it is on a Widow shaped guitar/bass.


----------



## Descent

Deep Blue said:


> I actually really like that spalted maple extreme series warlock, I wouldn't normally choose to have abalone everywhere but it doesn't even bother me on that guitar.



Yeah, that looks really good. Even the nasty overuse of abalone doesn't bother me on this one. Maybe they'd even have one stained red see thru. That'd be cool.

For the most part I am really excited about BCRich until I play one in store and then I just move on to better made guitars.


----------



## gunch

I’ll always prefer inline warlocks because of Max Cavalera ca. 1989-1990 and Terrance Hobbes


----------



## Rev2010

Is anyone else baffled with their decision to make the Warlock and Mockingbird Floyd models at a 24.625" scale length for 24 frets?? I would've bought the spalted maple Floyd Rose Mockingbird the instant it hit a store if it was 25.5" scale, 24.625" is a deal breaker for me as I tune down my 6-string to B standard tuning. Anyhow, I can't wrap my head around the choices this company has made historically. And before someone says it yeah I know the originals were also 24.625" scale but isn't that scale most common on 22 fret guitars (like Gibson) as opposed to 24? Such a let down as I was hoping to pick one up but not at a short scale.


Rev.


----------



## Handcrafted

Has anyone seen the prices yet? I think they want 1300 for the legacy Stealth. I was thinking about buying it but it's too much for my pocket


----------



## gunch

Rev2010 said:


> Is anyone else baffled with their decision to make the Warlock and Mockingbird Floyd models at a 24.625" scale length for 24 frets?? I would've bought the spalted maple Floyd Rose Mockingbird the instant it hit a store if it was 25.5" scale, 24.625" is a deal breaker for me as I tune down my 6-string to B standard tuning. Anyhow, I can't wrap my head around the choices this company has made historically. And before someone says it yeah I know the originals were also 24.625" scale but isn't that scale most common on 22 fret guitars (like Gibson) as opposed to 24? Such a let down as I was hoping to pick one up but not at a short scale.
> 
> 
> Rev.



Bro BCRs have always been Gibson scale it’s a BCR _Thing

edit: _lmao didn’t read your whole post I am dumb but for real some lead(shred) players want that Gibson scale slinkiness


----------



## Damon67

I'm happy to answer any questions y'all may have about the new line-up to the best of my ability. To address some things above:

1. The pictured Warlock is in our shop. The exact one. It's the first, no serial#, it was used to do the stock photos and the one that all the dealers will be using for their website images.

2. If they made them in 25.5, there would just be a different group complaining, and yes, 24 fret guitars have been made in that shorter scale length for decades.

3. Prices are what they are. It has nothing to do with profit margins, it's about what they're costing to build. All neck through, all USA pickups, seriously expensive hardware like Evertune bridges. They've committed to quality. You won't be seeing bolt-on or set necks... period. Pretty much custom shop quality builds and components.

4. Widow headstocks belong on Widows.... and even then it's iffy (okay, this was an opinion)

5. Merrekof's comment is SPOT ON with the neck profiles. It's actually how the president of BCR himself describes the necks, extreme C thin profile but not as thin as a wizard. The Legacy line feels more Gibby.

6. 26.5 scale 7 and 8 string axes will be in our shop mid-month. Both the 8 strings we have coming have Floyds.

7. If you like high rez photos of the Warlock above, there's a buttload more models on our site. If you need to see one in even more detail, just send a note to [email protected] and we'll send higher rez shots.

8. Here are more photos of the badass Warlock above...


----------



## Rev2010

gunch said:


> Bro BCRs have always been Gibson scale it’s a BCR _Thing_



Dude they made plenty of 25.5" scale guitars. I had a Warlock Deluxe that was 25.5", the last MK7 & MK11 Warlocks were 25.5", a number of Kerry King models were 25.5", etc. But yeah I know a lot of their models, especially the Mockingbird, were almost always 24.625" barring a few exceptions.


Rev.


----------



## Rev2010

Damon67 said:


> 2. If they made them in 25.5, there would just be a different group complaining



25.5" seems to be the most popular and common scale for 24 frets. Yes I know shorter scales have been done with it, but the only group I see complaining are people with tiny hands. For everyone else the extra nearly 1" length provides better intonation and doesn't require as thick strings to retain the same tension.



Damon67 said:


> 3. Prices are what they are. It has nothing to do with profit margins, it's about what they're costing to build. All neck through, all USA pickups, seriously expensive hardware like Evertune bridges. They've committed to quality. You won't be seeing bolt-on or set necks... period. Pretty much custom shop quality builds and components.



Agreed, and the quality does appear fantastic and worth the price - which seems to be a normal price margin anyhow these days.



Damon67 said:


> 6. 26.5 scale 7 and 8 string axes will be in our shop mid-month. Both the 8 strings we have coming have Floyds.



I'll just wait then and hopefully pickup a 26.5" 7-string  I unfortunately don't really need another 7 but we'll see.


Rev.


----------



## Damon67

Rev2010 said:


> 25.5" seems to be the most popular and common scale for 24 frets.
> Rev.



I bought my first guitar in 1982. A 24.75 scale, 24 frets. I guess it's just natural for me.


----------



## Rev2010

Damon67 said:


> I bought my first guitar in 1982. A 24.75 scale, 24 frets. I guess it's just natural for me.



Times have changed brotha. It's not 1982 lol. It's more about function over form. These days a lot of people use alternate tunings, most of them are down tuned as opposed to up tuned. When down tuning the short scale lengths make proper intonation at the higher frets difficult or impossible. Add to that you need even thicker strings to maintain a similar tension to a 25.5" scale. Sure one could argue that this only affects people down tuning, but not exactly. Even at regular E standard you still require thicker strings and have less accurate intonation on a 24 fret 24.625" scale. It's simple physics. But I get it some "shredders" prefer the shorter scale. I just think it makes the instrument limited for the more vast plethora of players and it can hurt sales. Aaaand as we've seen BC Rich hasn't been doing so great for a number of years. I dunno, just foolish in my view. But, we'll see in time how well they do with their business model.


Rev.


----------



## spudmunkey

"Am I a joke to you?"


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Chad SG vs the virgin BC Rich


----------



## xzacx

I don't get the "I love B.C. Rich" but "whaaa 24.75 scale" crowd. Do you guys actually like B.C. Rich guitars, or just the idea of them and want guitars that look like a B.C. Rich but are actually something different?


----------



## Cynicanal

But BC Rich has made tons of 25.5" scale guitars over the years.


----------



## spudmunkey

xzacx said:


> I don't get the "I love B.C. Rich" but "whaaa 24.75 scale" crowd. Do you guys actually like B.C. Rich guitars, or just the idea of them and want guitars that look like a B.C. Rich but are actually something different?



Honestly? I wanted a guitar that looked like the Mockingbird, but played differently than every one I've ever picked up. To the point where I almost bought a Warmoth Mockingbird body.


----------



## Bdtunn

I for one welcome our short scale overlords


----------



## Rev2010

xzacx said:


> I don't get the "I love B.C. Rich" but "whaaa 24.75 scale" crowd. Do you guys actually like B.C. Rich guitars



I explained everything already and am not retyping it. People have differing opinions and preferences, it's a big world out there.
Don't know what is up with you types that always come out of the woodwork posting "whaaa" comments when someone voices an opinion of dislike 

Rev.


----------



## Descent

$1300 for non US guitar, or is it US-made? 

Evertune bridges? Are those robo tuners?

I just bought a Gibson Epiphone studio USA for $800, so yeah, it can be done. Oh, neck thru as well.


----------



## Rev2010

Descent said:


> I just bought a Gibson Epiphone studio USA for $800, so yeah, it can be done. Oh, neck thru as well.



Can definitely be done. My 6-string Jackson Kelly was I think $700 new and it has neck through, Floyd Rose Special bridge and bound neck & body. Sure it's got Jackson pickups instead of Fishman but outside of that and Jackson tuners I don't see much else lower grade. It's Indonesian made, which their first runs from there years ago were fraught with problems but now they are well made.

Rev.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Rev2010 said:


> Is anyone else baffled with their decision to make the Warlock and Mockingbird Floyd models at a 24.625" scale length for 24 frets?? I would've bought the spalted maple Floyd Rose Mockingbird the instant it hit a store if it was 25.5" scale, 24.625" is a deal breaker for me as I tune down my 6-string to B standard tuning. Anyhow, I can't wrap my head around the choices this company has made historically. And before someone says it yeah I know the originals were also 24.625" scale but isn't that scale most common on 22 fret guitars (like Gibson) as opposed to 24? Such a let down as I was hoping to pick one up but not at a short scale.
> 
> 
> Rev.




I feel the same way bro. I would've probably jumped the gun on something by now because my curiousity is getting the best of me, but the scale is a deal breaker, for comfort reasons.



Spaced Out Ace said:


> Chad SG vs the virgin BC Rich




Oh boy



xzacx said:


> I don't get the "I love B.C. Rich" but "whaaa 24.75 scale" crowd. Do you guys actually like B.C. Rich guitars, or just the idea of them and want guitars that look like a B.C. Rich but are actually something different?



I can see what you are saying, but as a player I like the 25.5" scale length. I like BCR and I have been invested in this relaunch and have been holding off on buying all other guitars until they come out with the full lineup. I know they are coming out with 25.5" shredzillas with fr's, but it would be cool to see alternate shapes aswell.

Plus it is just weird and doesn't make any sense to have 24 frets, 24.625" scale and a floyd? I dunno just seems real weird IMO.


----------



## Descent

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Plus it is just weird and doesn't make any sense to have 24 frets, 24.625" scale and a floyd? I dunno just seems real weird IMO.



Have you tried it? I didn't really care much about that but got a 24fret Godin, which is a knockoff of Gibson, that has 24 frets and plays great. There is a bit of a tuning instability and intonation that I find always irks me a bit on this scale length but nothing unusual as compared to say a Gibson LP. SUch short 24 fret neck actually is super fast IMO. Probably not so good on anything lower than D standard or Db standard tuning, but oh well, you got baritone and other guitars for that.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Descent said:


> Have you tried it? I didn't really care much about that but got a 24fret Godin, which is a knockoff of Gibson, that has 24 frets and plays great. There is a bit of a tuning instability and intonation that I find always irks me a bit on this scale length but nothing unusual as compared to say a Gibson LP. SUch short 24 fret neck actually is super fast IMO. Probably not so good on anything lower than D standard or Db standard tuning, but oh well, you got baritone and other guitars for that.



I tried a schecter solo-ii red reign. FR 24.75" and 24 frets and it felt so foreign and offputting. Anything smaller wouldn't make it any better.

It is a preference thing aswell. I have another schecter that is a solo-ii custom and I am selling it. My two reasons are the bridge is *uncomfortable* along with the scale length being *uncomfortable.
*
People have preferences on this shit and I for one am not gonna compromise my comfortability for anything. People can say all day long how it works for them and it is actually faster and such, but I could give less of a shit. That isn't comfortable for *me *therefore I am not purchasing it.

Plus to be quite honest, I don't see a ton of companies doing short scale, fr, 24 fret guitars. And with BCR doing this (although I know it is traditional to them, even though they have had models do 25.5") it just doesn't make much sense. 

I would've bought either a warbeast or a V from @Damon67 / Red Blanket Guitars if it wasn't for that. 

Most people are not comfortable with those specs and with great reasoning.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Oh boy


----------



## Hollowway

spudmunkey said:


> Honestly? I wanted a guitar that looked like the Mockingbird, but played differently than every one I've ever picked up. To the point where I almost bought a Warmoth Mockingbird body.



Same. I finally broke down and bought one of the white 7 string Mockingbirds with a Floyd, just because I love that design. I wish it was 25.5” though!


----------



## uni777

Hollowway said:


> Same. I finally broke down and bought one of the white 7 string Mockingbirds with a Floyd, just because I love that design. I wish it was 25.5” though!


If you are talking about the glitter white one, actually that Mock 7 is 25,5 scale. It is the only ST mock they did with a longer scale. I own one also it is the same scale as my universe.

*Edit: they messed up the specs on different places stating it as a 24 7/8, but i have a 6 str. version as wel and the scale differs.


----------



## uni777

Concerning the scale lengths, i grew up playing the gibson scale on 6 str. so i really like those guitars being that. I've been playing the universe since '94 so i kind of gelled with the 25,5 for 7str. The modern longer scales are uncomfertable for me and i do not really like the sound of the 26,5 and longer.
Couldn't gell with the schecters, LTD and jacksons. They also hurt my hands more (arthritis rheumatoid) so i, for one are really hoping for a Ironbird 24 7/8 scale. I've been playing downtuned DeathMetal since '88 and i've never run in any intonation issues with my old BCR's or Gibby's.


----------



## Hollowway

uni777 said:


> If you are talking about the glitter white one, actually that Mock 7 is 25,5 scale. It is the only ST mock they did with a longer scale. I own one also it is the same scale as my universe.


Wow, really? That is the one I have. I think it’s the ST7. I’ll have to measure it, because it was listed as 24 5/8. And I can’t tell by feel, so maybe that’s why I don’t hate it.


----------



## uni777

Hollowway said:


> Wow, really? That is the one I have. I think it’s the ST7. I’ll have to measure it, because it was listed as 24 5/8. And I can’t tell by feel, so maybe that’s why I don’t hate it.



I did my edit too late:
they messed up the specs on different places stating it as a 24 7/8, but i have a 6 str. version as wel and the scale differs.
This site has the correct specs: http://bcrichguitars.jp/2012mgst7.html


----------



## uni777

sorry someting went wrong..


----------



## vilk

nvm


----------



## spudmunkey

Apparently Tone King is doing a live video "With special guest: B.C. Rich Guitars!" on friday night at midnight EST
 I wonder if there will be a Q&A section?


----------



## Rev2010

Double post


----------



## Rev2010

spudmunkey said:


> Apparently Tone King is doing a live video "With special guest: B.C. Rich Guitars!" on friday night at midnight EST



Their limited run Tone King Mockingbird TTK-1 was pretty sweet. Came close to jumping on one but forget the reason why I didn't. Probably cause it was short scale length lol.


Rev.


----------



## gunshow86de

spudmunkey said:


> I wonder if there will be a Q&A section?



Where da Ironbirds at?


----------



## spudmunkey

Rev2010 said:


> Their limited run Tone King Mockingbird TTK-1 was pretty sweet. Came close to jumping on one but forget the reason why I didn't. Probably cause it was short scale length lol.
> 
> 
> Rev.



the Tone King inlay, perhaps?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

spudmunkey said:


> the Tone King inlay, perhaps?


Would have actually been legit perfect without it. Reverse stock, BLANK bound fretboard, 22 frets, carved top with binding. Man that guitar looked sexy.


----------



## Rev2010

spudmunkey said:


> the Tone King inlay, perhaps?



Yeah, that indeed was Cheese City Wisconsin.


Rev.


----------



## Rev2010

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> 22 frets



Aaah, _that's_ what it was!


Rev.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Rev2010 said:


> Aaah, _that's_ what it was!
> 
> 
> Rev.


----------



## Hollowway

uni777 said:


> I did my edit too late:
> they messed up the specs on different places stating it as a 24 7/8, but i have a 6 str. version as wel and the scale differs.
> This site has the correct specs: http://bcrichguitars.jp/2012mgst7.html


Ah, well that’s awesome! So here I thought I could adapt to a 24 5/8” scale so seamlessly hahahaha


----------



## A-Branger

Rev2010 said:


> Is anyone else baffled with their decision to make the Warlock and Mockingbird Floyd models at a 24.625" scale length for 24 frets?? I would've bought the spalted maple Floyd Rose Mockingbird the instant it hit a store if it was 25.5" scale, 24.625" is a deal breaker for me as I tune down my 6-string to B standard tuning. Anyhow, I can't wrap my head around the choices this company has made historically. And before someone says it yeah I know the originals were also 24.625" scale but isn't that scale most common on 22 fret guitars (like Gibson) as opposed to 24? Such a let down as I was hoping to pick one up but not at a short scale.
> 
> 
> Rev.



yet the 50th anniversary mockingbird is 25.5".....? so the one to celebrate the history of the guitar, is the one who doesnt follow the "rule" of such guitar


also the comment on "mockingbirds have always been 24.75" scale so why the complain?"..... yeah true, but also the mockingbird has been with the 3+3 headstock, yet we got the pointy reversed one. So....... ?

also that pointy headotck only works with the shredzila, and maybe the stealth. all the other models looks so wrong with it


----------



## Adieu

Hollowway said:


> It’s American, so “ultra slim” means not as obese as average.



Pretty sure the new BCR's are Korean


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

A-Branger said:


> yet the 50th anniversary mockingbird is 25.5".....? so the one to celebrate the history of the guitar, is the one who doesnt follow the "rule" of such guitar
> 
> 
> also the comment on "mockingbirds have always been 24.75" scale so why the complain?"..... yeah true, but also the mockingbird has been with the 3+3 headstock, yet we got the pointy reversed one. So....... ?
> 
> also that pointy headotck only works with the shredzila, and maybe the stealth. all the other models looks so wrong with it




To add, the extreme series is the more modern take... so why the 24 5/8 on those? Doesn't seem to make much sense


----------



## cardinal

I'm beginning to see why running BC Rich is not so simple. If they did the 25.5", their traditional fan base would cry foul. But doing 24.75" has caused protest from the more modern crowd.

Hopefully they will stay afloat long enough to give everyone what they want. Maybe they can do something like the Solar model where they just release batches of guitars and can vary the specs as they go. That way if you don't see the specs you want, just drop them a line and hope to see them in the future. And if you do see the specs you want, better buy it now before they sell out and the next run is up.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

cardinal said:


> I'm beginning to see why running BC Rich is not so simple. If they did the 25.5", their traditional fan base would cry foul. But doing 24.75" has caused protest from the more modern crowd.
> 
> Hopefully they will stay afloat long enough to give everyone what they want. Maybe they can do something like the Solar model where they just release batches of guitars and can vary the specs as they go. That way if you don't see the specs you want, just drop them a line and hope to see them in the future. And if you do see the specs you want, better buy it now before they sell out and the next run is up.




Well the thing is they have the solution to this. The legacy line is the more traditional stuff from them and the extreme series is more modern.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Now take what you guys want from this, but the website added a few new gig bags. Models B C and D.

Now what is interesting is that they list the shapes that they are suitable for and the ironbird, virgo, stealth, gunslinger, and asm pop up.

They probably have models of these to test whether these bags work?

Maybe this is a hint of whats to come


----------



## Mathemagician

Where’s the 2 guys swearing they’d buy ANY 8 string with a floyd. BC Rich has been sharing theirs online this week a bit on their stories. I don’t see any NGD posts. This forum should be able to throw up 1-2 by year end. Where you at 8 string with floyd militia? Also upload a video of 8 string dive bonds. I bet that’s a hoot.


----------



## spudmunkey

Mathemagician said:


> Where’s the 2 guys swearing they’d buy ANY 8 string with a floyd. BC Rich has been sharing theirs online this week a bit on their stories.



Shown on instagram stories ≠ available for purchase anywhere.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> Shown on instagram stories ≠ available for purchase anywhere.




Red blanket had one proto.

Just gotta wait for the full release


----------



## spudmunkey

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Just gotta wait for the full release


----------



## trem licking

Mathemagician said:


> Where’s the 2 guys swearing they’d buy ANY 8 string with a floyd. BC Rich has been sharing theirs online this week a bit on their stories. I don’t see any NGD posts. This forum should be able to throw up 1-2 by year end. Where you at 8 string with floyd militia? Also upload a video of 8 string dive bonds. I bet that’s a hoot.


But why u mad bro?


----------



## Mathemagician

I’m not? I want to see these get purchased. Of all the things I have personally mentioned on SSO or seen mentioned this one has seemed to me to be high on the “vocal minority” scale. So #1 I just want reviews on more BCR’s quality control and #2 I want to see someone drop money on such a unique production model.


----------



## cardinal

Mathemagician said:


> Where’s the 2 guys swearing they’d buy ANY 8 string with a floyd. BC Rich has been sharing theirs online this week a bit on their stories. I don’t see any NGD posts. This forum should be able to throw up 1-2 by year end. Where you at 8 string with floyd militia? Also upload a video of 8 string dive bonds. I bet that’s a hoot.



I'm not sure I've seen someone say they'd buy any 8-string with a Floyd. Schecter and Agile each have made them. There are a few people (myself included) that would like more options because the Schecters and Agiles have certain specs (28" scale and odd locking nut, respectively) that don't appeal to everyone.

The BC Rich specs actually are pretty good for me. Problem in my case is that it took too long. I've ordered two custom Schecters, had an RG852 routed for a Floyd, and had another custom 8 built with a Floyd Rose. Had I not blown all that money, the BC Rich would be headed my way.


----------



## Mathemagician

So in other words...you’re not going to buy one?


----------



## Albake21

I've definitely seen a couple users say they'd buy any floyd 8. With that said, I still want to know how it feels on an 8. I'm sure it's great for some slight tremolo but I'm guessing you can't really dive bomb or go too far on it, right?


----------



## trem licking

Mathemagician said:


> I’m not? I want to see these get purchased. Of all the things I have personally mentioned on SSO or seen mentioned this one has seemed to me to be high on the “vocal minority” scale. So #1 I just want reviews on more BCR’s quality control and #2 I want to see someone drop money on such a unique production model.


My mistake. I will buy one if they are indeed 26.5/27" scale. Would also like to see the stripped down models they keep mentioning, although I do not mind the abalone at all. Question is, when will they be available and where? The high res photos look pretty much like schecter South Korean quality which is pretty good, generally.


----------



## trem licking

Albake21 said:


> I've definitely seen a couple users say they'd buy any floyd 8. With that said, I still want to know how it feels on an 8. I'm sure it's great for some slight tremolo but I'm guessing you can't really dive bomb or go too far on it, right?


You can go just as nuts as you can on any other guitar, it's just a little harder to do because of the extra tension. Dives are super awesome on low F# and you can do those sweet dime squeels all day long if you like... And yes they flutter too. As a matter of fact, my schecter hellraiser C8 FR stays dead nuts in tune no matter what I do with it, even moreso than my rg7620 with the lo pro edge trem. There are zero downsides, if you are someone who likes trems.


----------



## cardinal

Mathemagician said:


> So in other words...you’re not going to buy one?



Very unlikely. Had it come out 12-18 months ago, it'd be very different. When a customized RG852 is essentially my "beater" guitar, I just don't know when I'd play the Shredzilla.

But I think it's awesome they are making it and I hope it sells well enough to encourage others to follow suit.

But to the extent that anyone is calling me out for not putting my money where my mouth is for not buying the Shredzilla, I feel like I've already done that. That's all.


----------



## ThePIGI King

I said I'd buy the first Ibby 8 with a trem, so I'm partially there I guess  depending on the specs and price and if they are available still when I'm able to buy one, I'll snatch a BCR.

Hoping I can.


----------



## cardinal

Albake21 said:


> I've definitely seen a couple users say they'd buy any floyd 8. With that said, I still want to know how it feels on an 8. I'm sure it's great for some slight tremolo but I'm guessing you can't really dive bomb or go too far on it, right?



I go nuts with the Floyd and it stays in tune perfect. 

Only caveat is that I snap high strings like crazy with these longer-scale guitars, so if the Floyd is floating it's a real pain. But I seem to be the only guy around here with the excessive string-break problem.


----------



## exo

Two things: looks like I’m gonna need to investigate a type C gigbag....

and 


Honestly, as long as nothing the “new BCR” puts out resembles THIS thing, I think we’re in the clear...

https://autographsauthenticationsto...MIm6Wy2dTq5QIVsh-tBh3MxQYMEAQYByABEgLH-PD_BwE


----------



## gunshow86de

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Just gotta wait for the full release





spudmunkey said:


>



Only 16 days left, stay strong fellas.


----------



## spudmunkey

*shivers*

That fucking werid, man...

Kind of reminds of of some



thing like:


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, I’m one of the guys that will pretty much buy any 8 string with a Floyd. I have the Agile version. And I have a couple of Kahler 8s. And I have a Kiesel Hipshot 8. And I’ll prolly get the BC Rich 8 if it’s the rumored 26.5” scale or longer. But they’re not in stores yet. I emailed (reverbed?) the Music Farm, and they hoped they’d be in last week. But they still don’t have them. @trem licking, @cardinal, and I are the most vocal about 8s with trems, but I find it difficult to believe that no one else would buy them. So many 7s have Floyds, and hardtail 8s are a dime a dozen these days, so I’m frankly surprised we don’t see Floyd 8s.


----------



## Zado

Dunno if posted already.



















"Shredzilla". Abalone is back, coupled with the superstrat trend of the year: long, loooooooooooooooong horns. You're warned Solar guitars.


----------



## cardinal

It's not my favorite looking guitar but it looks good enough to rock. I appreciate the black-burst edges on the 8 so that it doesn't look exactly like a Hellraiser.


----------



## cardinal

Bc Rich on Instagram showing off a short horn Mockingbird with Joe Perry. Would be pretty cool to see a new short horn. One of my dream guitars waaaaay back when.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

The trans black one, but with a floyd instead? Yes please


----------



## wedge_destroyer

I do like that green one but i want to see that finish on a stealth or ironbird, with a floyd or kahler.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

wedge_destroyer said:


> I do like that green one but i want to see that finish on a stealth or ironbird, with a floyd or kahler.




Thatd be kinda cool


----------



## GenghisCoyne

spudmunkey said:


> Same. They even created catagories that are empty or only have 1 instrument in it, if you look at the basses.



and let me be the first to bitch about it; they better not do PJ pickups on 95% of their basses again. it looks dumb. its more surface area for to collect dust in the corner of the 15 year olds room. its harder to find replacement sets. keep that shit in the 80s


----------



## stevexc

GenghisCoyne said:


> and let me be the first to bitch about it; they better not do PJ pickups on 95% of their basses again. it looks dumb. its more surface area for to collect dust in the corner of the 15 year olds room. its harder to find replacement sets. keep that shit in the 80s



DISAGREE

The PJ sound IMO overrules any and all of those complaints. SO GOOD.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

stevexc said:


> DISAGREE
> 
> The PJ sound IMO overrules any and all of those complaints. SO GOOD.



PJ = JJ >>>>>> Humbuckers.

I'm like the complete opposite for basses compared to guitars. Can't stand most humbuckers in basses. Prefer either single coils or split-coils.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

I seem to always remember them doing double P more than PJ.


----------



## cardinal

Yeah I was going to say, the classic BC Rich bass was double P.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

stevexc said:


> DISAGREE
> 
> The PJ sound IMO overrules any and all of those complaints. SO GOOD.



qft

If a bass has one pickup, I prefer it be a split coil P style. If it has two, I like PJ just for versatility's sake. P basses lend themselves very well to most genres of music, imo.


----------



## GenghisCoyne

Señor Voorhees said:


> P basses lend themselves very well to most genres of music, imo.



ok boomer


----------



## Hollowway

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> PJ = JJ >>>>>> Humbuckers.
> 
> I'm like the complete opposite for basses compared to guitars. Can't stand most humbuckers in basses. Prefer either single coils or split-coils.


Amen to that! For me it’s Jazz or go home.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

wedge_destroyer said:


> I seem to always remember them doing double P more than PJ.



I think they're the brand that started it. And the majority of their basses were P/P.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think they're the brand that started it. And the majority of their basses were P/P.



Yea, didnt know if they started it but I know its what alot of the old ones and the 2000s era NJs have.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

GenghisCoyne said:


> ok boomer



GET OFF MY LAWN!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

wedge_destroyer said:


> Yea, didnt know if they started it but I know its what alot of the old ones and the 2000s era NJs have.


It's either Alembic or BCR. One of those started it in the mid-late 70s I imagine.


----------



## spudmunkey

"it gets dustier when not being used" is definitely the strangest reason i've seen for or against a particular pickup configuration.


In other news...

Was it generally known that Bill Xavier is the current president? Apparently he's who's going to be on Tone King's youtube live video tonight.

Apparently before, he was AR and product development with Ovation for 2 years, hanser music group for 8 years (aka traben basses...yuck), sales and product development for Peavy for 6 years. In trhe 90s, he worked sales for Kaman, and I used to have a GTX made by Kaman from around that time period. Really shitty guitar.  i won't hold that against him.

Apparently he's been there for 10 months. Still no word who the new "owners" are, or these "shredders" that are directing the brand's rebirth direction...



On IG, when someone asked about joe Perry's short-horn mockingbirsd, they responded, "we have a new short horn / fast neck extreme series mockingbird yes. Designed for shredders who love the traditional shapes"


----------



## Hollowway

GenghisCoyne said:


> its more surface area for to collect dust in the corner



Mom?


----------



## DeathCubeK

These new guitars are absolutely revolting. Abalone binding on everything? Did they wake up in the Schecter factory in 2006?


----------



## SandyRavage

After finding out who the “rockstar” investor who bought the brand is my hopefulness is diminishing quickly.

Hopefully they turn it around but I’m not crossing my fingers, and everything they keep posting goes further away from a more modern take on the classic shapes I had hoped for.


----------



## SandyRavage

For anyone who cares it’s Zoltan Bathory and rumor has it he paid a fat 1,000,000 for the brand and it’s assets.....


----------



## Cynicanal

SandyRavage said:


> For anyone who cares it’s Zoltan Bathory


----------



## Mathemagician

So someone in a popular touring band which is a gateway into metal for a ton of younger kids just like Disturbed was in the early 2000’s is running the show?

Outside of some sort of management issue like someone siphoning money it cannot be worse than the last few reattempts to kick start the brand. 

At least he has an idea of what other artists are into and is able to show off the gear to tons of bands when they play out. 

They spec’d nice enough ones for themselves. And unlike several SSO-preferred start ups, BCR seem to be slowly shipping instruments out. 

Without pre-sales of low serial numbers.


----------



## Mathemagician

Cynicanal said:


>




 I’ve never seen that before. I thought it was a music video and then it just ended.


----------



## jco5055

In 2019 (or I guess since 2007 or so when FFDP first got on the scene), has FFDP been THAT successful that he could afford buying BC Rich for $1million? I can see living a somewhat comfortable life without needing another job etc but that much $$?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

In the end if they provide quality instruments and great lineups i could care less plain and simple. Schecter already does this for me and i am tempted to get into ESP's, but i am holding off for these new BCR'S because I have hope.

When the 6 strinf shredzilla with a floyd becomes available for purchase I will be buying it. When I get it, you guys will be the FIRST to know of what I think and I wont sugar coat it. If it ends up not living up to my expectations I will make it widely known


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jco5055 said:


> In 2019 (or I guess since 2007 or so when FFDP first got on the scene), has FFDP been THAT successful that he could afford buying BC Rich for $1million? I can see living a somewhat comfortable life without needing another job etc but that much $$?



I doubt it was paid in cash. It was likely financed.


----------



## efiltsohg

don't really care who owns it if they make decent guitars

I gotta check if the local shop can get any in, not sure what the requirements will be to become an authorized retailer


----------



## A-Branger

cardinal said:


> Bc Rich on Instagram showing off a short horn Mockingbird with Joe Perry. Would be pretty cool to see a new short horn. One of my dream guitars waaaaay back when.


 thats a weird looking mockingbird.

makes the upper "horn" looks big

I would say nope to this, give me my long traditional mockingbird horn all day long

EDIT: found a photo... and yes the upper horn is bigger, kinda like a SG







still a nope


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

So i watched the tone king interview with the new guy and I honestly think the relaunch is gonna be great. The dude seems passionate about the brand and actually cares. He also confirmed that there will be some stuff added within the coming weeks as it has been missing and i qoute *"there will be some ironbirds aswell" time stamp at 20:00*


----------



## twguitar

There are maybe 6/7 different mockingbird shapes but usually narrowed down to 3. The Shorthorn, El Monte and the TJ. What we see most is the TJ shape that evolved in BCR South from the El Monte Shape.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

25" 8 strings though?


----------



## twguitar

Carl Kolchak said:


> 25" 8 strings though?


26.5 not 25


----------



## Carl Kolchak

twguitar said:


> 26.5 not 25



https://reverb.com/item/29130982-b-c-rich-shredzilla-8-string-exotic-2019-trans-black-satin

My bad, 25.5."


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Carl Kolchak said:


> https://reverb.com/item/29130982-b-c-rich-shredzilla-8-string-exotic-2019-trans-black-satin
> 
> My bad, 25.5."



Supposedly the 25.5" 7 and 8 strings are just part of the prototype run, next batch of actual production guitars are supposed to be 26.5", so says Red Blanket Guitars (@Damon67) who mentioned getting the 26.5" in stock.


----------



## IbanezDaemon

Heard that the Bich models will now be called Rich B so as not to offend people.


----------



## GenghisCoyne

IbanezDaemon said:


> Heard that the Bich models will now be called Rich B so as not to offend people.




well im triggered


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

I think omitting the Eagle & doing the V is a mistake. I get the Kerry King Sig, but I think BCR needs to stick with core models for now to re-establish themselves. Doing the Bich, Eagle, Mockingbird are plenty fine. Just do them "_well_".
I'd love an Eagle with a Floyd, for that matter.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

MaxOfMetal said:


> Supposedly the 25.5" 7 and 8 strings are just part of the prototype run, next batch of actual production guitars are supposed to be 26.5", so says Red Blanket Guitars (@Damon67) who mentioned getting the 26.5" in stock.



26.5" I can see on a 7, but on an 8? 

Meh.

You know that's not going to end well.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> I think omitting the Eagle & doing the V is a mistake. I get the Kerry King Sig, but I think BCR needs to stick with core models for now to re-establish themselves. Doing the Bich, Eagle, Mockingbird are plenty fine. Just do them "_well_".
> I'd love an Eagle with a Floyd, for that matter.



Isn't King endorsed by Dean now?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Carl Kolchak said:


> 26.5" I can see on a 7, but on an 8?
> 
> Meh.
> 
> You know that's not going to end well.



It's indistinguishable from 27". I've owned a number of 7s and 8s with both scales, and never found a significant enough of a difference to make it a factor when choosing instruments.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's indistinguishable from 27". I've owned a number of 7s and 8s with both scales, and never found a significant enough of a difference to make it a factor when choosing instruments.



I had a 26.5" Schecter 7 string once that didn't have enough saddle over-travel to do A standard. Had an 28" 5/8ths Agile 8 string that couldn't do E standard. Also, there was that thread in the ERG section about a 27" PRS baritone that couldn't do F#.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Carl Kolchak said:


> I had a 26.5" Schecter 7 string once that didn't have enough saddle over-travel to do A standard. Had an 28" 5/8ths Agile 8 string that couldn't do E standard. Also, there was that thread in the ERG section about a 27" PRS baritone that couldn't do F#.



Those are instrument-specific issues.

If that was purely a matter of scale none of the RGD7s that Ibanez ships in A standard would intonate, nor would all the RG8s. I've run a low E on scales from 26" to 30.2".

Maybe this one will be a dud too, but I wouldn't count it out based solely on scale.


----------



## zappatton2

twguitar said:


> There are maybe 6/7 different mockingbird shapes but usually narrowed down to 3. The Shorthorn, El Monte and the TJ. What we see most is the TJ shape that evolved in BCR South from the El Monte Shape.
> View attachment 74663


For anyone with experience, is there any difference in the balance of these models? I know Mocks are notorious for neck-dive, wondering if the shorthorn was a means of resolving that.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

IbanezDaemon said:


> Heard that the Bich models will now be called Rich B so as not to offend people.


 
Wow. For a company trying to keep and maintain its legacy changing the name of one of its most iconic models just doesn't make sense to me.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

zappatton2 said:


> For anyone with experience, is there any difference in the balance of these models? I know Mocks are notorious for neck-dive, wondering if the shorthorn was a means of resolving that.



Perhaps, I'm not sure I used to read whatever i could find about them years ago but that was many whiskey bottles ago lol.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

IbanezDaemon said:


> Heard that the Bich models will now be called Rich B so as not to offend people.



notsureifserious.gif


----------



## IbanezDaemon

MaxOfMetal said:


> notsureifserious.gif



It would appear to be true.

https://bcrich.com/instrument-series/handcrafted/


----------



## twguitar

zappatton2 said:


> For anyone with experience, is there any difference in the balance of these models? I know Mocks are notorious for neck-dive, wondering if the shorthorn was a means of resolving that.


The Short horn does balance better but honestly last time I played guitar my left hand was on the neck so it’s really not an issue for me.... 
I know a lot of people get hung up on neck dive but it’s the nature of some of these shapes. If the strap buttons are in the right place like the originals it’s not too much of an issue. A leather strap with a rough underside tends to hold most BCRs in place in my experience.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

IbanezDaemon said:


> It would appear to be true.
> 
> https://bcrich.com/instrument-series/handcrafted/



The 10 string was called the "Rich Bich 10", they just removed the "Bich" from the model name to call it the "Rich B10". I guess we'll see how they name the 6s.

EDIT: Yeah, looks like they're just calling it the "B".


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Carl Kolchak said:


> Isn't King endorsed by Dean now?



Yes, indeed, that's what I get for posting too early in the morning...


----------



## Carl Kolchak

MaxOfMetal said:


> Those are instrument-specific issues.
> 
> If that was purely a matter of scale none of the RGD7s that Ibanez ships in A standard would intonate, nor would all the RG8s. I've run a low E on scales from 26" to 30.2".
> 
> Maybe this one will be a dud too, but I wouldn't count it out based solely on scale.



Then again, I have a 26.5" Schecter 7 string sitting here right now that has zero problems tuned to G standard.

Still, a 26.5" 8 string is not ideal. In fact, it's kind of a dumb choice, one made by people who probably don't play 8 strings themselves.

One thing I would love would be for this incarnation of BC Rich to make a 7 string Mockingbird with a 27" or 28" scale. Assuming the QC was there I would buy one on the spot.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

My first 8 string was 26.5" and I had that stupid thing tuned a whole step down then dropped. (That is to say it was DADGCFAd.) Probably not for everyone since I like my strings slacker than most, but it's doable, especially if all you do if F#.


----------



## trem licking

Shorter scale is slightly better for a trem in my opinion, so 8 string with 26.5/27" is perfect


----------



## Kaura

Kinda off-topic but I've been binging on Better Call Saul this week and this catched my eye.


----------



## Bdtunn

Oh F yeah!!!


----------



## ExplorerMike

Bdtunn said:


> View attachment 74697
> 
> 
> Oh F yeah!!!



Beat me to it! I was going to post this too! Figured it would make a lot of dudes pretty happy!


----------



## uni777

Bdtunn said:


> View attachment 74697
> 
> 
> Oh F yeah!!!


Damn.. it's the mark two shape.. not the original one like the customshop bolted steel version. Thats a shame.


----------



## Vyn

uni777 said:


> Damn.. it's the mark two shape.. not the original one like the customshop bolted steel version. Thats a shame.



It's still an Iron Bird, and a current one at that


----------



## manu80

Man , you guys are never happy, can't believe that !!


----------



## uni777

well, they have been teasing with that bolted steel one. But after the TTK interview it was clear the new CEO didn't have a clue about the differences. He shared a pic of his own old school IB which was a mark 1 shape so i hoped they would go for that one. 
The Mark 1 is my favorite guitar ever and with this model the curves and angles are just off to my eyes.
Otherwise i would have bought both the bass and guitar version. In fact i was already saving up for it.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

uni777 said:


> well, they have been teasing with that bolted steel one. But after the TTK interview it was clear the new CEO didn't have a clue about the differences. He shared a pic of his own old school IB which was a mark 1 shape so i hoped they would go for that one.
> The Mark 1 is my favorite guitar ever and with this model the curves and angles are just off to my eyes.
> Otherwise i would have bought both the bass and guitar version. In fact i was already saving up for it.




I mean the CEO said they are gonna do limited runs of stuff so each shape can be represented... except the draco


----------



## Bdtunn

Musicians friend has them up, looks like they average about 1599


----------



## electriceye

MaxOfMetal said:


> The 10 string was called the "Rich Bich 10", they just removed the "Bich" from the model name to call it the "Rich B10". I guess we'll see how they name the 6s.
> 
> EDIT: Yeah, looks like they're just calling it the "B".



OK, that right there automatically destroys any credibility the new ownership had. Are they fucking kidding??? That’s an iconic guitar and name. You don’t change it. Period.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

They can keep their "B" (the Bich) and I'll keep my "B" (the almighty buck). Fuck these schmucks.


----------



## cip 123

cardinal said:


> It's not my favorite looking guitar but it looks good enough to rock. I appreciate the black-burst edges on the 8 so that it doesn't look exactly like a Hellraiser.


As you said that I googled the Hellraiser out of curiosity. I'm not sure where these BC Rich are made or how the manufacturing process goes down. But it almost looks like BC went to the factory and said can you make us this shape. And the Factory gave it to the CAD guy and he loaded up the Schecter C8FR file. The knob placement is the same, the switch placement even the way the neck meets the body at the same frets. Even the scale 26.5. The only people who really used that were Schecter (Jackson a little) on their old 8's. It really does look to me like it's just an out of date Hellraiser. And probably with worse QC.

Just something I found intriguing.


----------



## cardinal

cip 123 said:


> As you said that I googled the Hellraiser out of curiosity. I'm not sure where these BC Rich are made or how the manufacturing process goes down. But it almost looks like BC went to the factory and said can you make us this shape. And the Factory gave it to the CAD guy and he loaded up the Schecter C8FR file. The knob placement is the same, the switch placement even the way the neck meets the body at the same frets. Even the scale 26.5. The only people who really used that were Schecter (Jackson a little) on their old 8's. It really does look to me like it's just an out of date Hellraiser. And probably with worse QC.
> 
> Just something I found intriguing.



The key difference to me is that the Hellraiser C8FR is a 28" scale (some of the hardtail C8s were 26.5"). That longer scale I think suits folks that use the F# a lot, but I use it only rarely, so the shorter 26.5" to me is much much preferred to keep the treble strings more normal feeling. 

But the cosmetic similarities are pretty striking.


----------



## Mathemagician

electriceye said:


> OK, that right there automatically destroys any credibility the new ownership had. Are they fucking kidding??? That’s an iconic guitar and name. You don’t change it. Period.



Wow that is corny. Forgive me but this sounds almost like an excuse not to buy a guitar. Being real the name “Bich” is just dumb IMO. Yeah it’s classic but not on the same level like in a “cheesy metal” way like “Warlock” or “Ignitor”.

“Joe Perry playing his new Bich!” Sounds straight out of 1978. 

It’s the same guitar, and from the sound of it mgmt seems to know they should do runs of the various iterations of it. But now people are mad that they’re calling it something else so they don’t have to run adds where they put “Bich” in print?

Just call it the Bich yourself when talking about it. No way is a name change stopping someone from actually buying something they really want.

If guitars were called “dildos” I’d still be on here posting “NDD” threads.

Never change SSO.


----------



## cip 123

cardinal said:


> The key difference to me is that the Hellraiser C8FR is a 28" scale (some of the hardtail C8s were 26.5"). That longer scale I think suits folks that use the F# a lot, but I use it only rarely, so the shorter 26.5" to me is much much preferred to keep the treble strings more normal feeling.
> 
> But the cosmetic similarities are pretty striking.



I wasn't really commenting on the effectiveness of the scale, I had a 26.5 hell raiser, and find the 28 to be too long even for my large hands.

It was just the cosmetic side, as you put, striking. Even just having a cad file for a Floyd(which a factory might have if they make the c8fr) it could easily be popped on top of the old 26.5 model. Just all a bit too similar for me. Even with the abalone, I honestly think I'll just view these as old model schecters


----------



## kisielk

How do we know that the Hellraiser wasn’t just taken from some generic CAD file that the factory provided? It’s not exactly a very unique shape.


----------



## possumkiller

Idk Fender did the research showing most new guitarists are female. So it's probably not going to be good for business to go on calling things bich or pussy melter or using tons of naked women in marketing.


----------



## Vyn

possumkiller said:


> Idk Fender did the research showing most new guitarists are female. So it's probably not going to be good for business to go on calling things bich or pussy melter or using tons of naked women in marketing.



Which is actually a good thing. Products don’t need to be lewdly/derogatoraliy named to sell.


----------



## narad

Vyn said:


> Which is actually a good thing. Products don’t need to be lewdly/derogatoraliy named to sell.



Amps though...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

SandyRavage said:


> For anyone who cares it’s Zoltan Bathory and rumor has it he paid a fat 1,000,000 for the brand and it’s assets.....



If this is true, the aesthetic choices make a looot of sense.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean the CEO said they are gonna do limited runs of stuff so each shape can be represented... except the draco



Phuck you mean "except the Draco"? They should do a run of those.

But in all seriousness I honestly wonder how the meeting went when Rock Clouser unveiled his Draco design and shortly after, BC Rich fired him. I really wanna know how that went.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Phuck you mean "except the Draco"? They should do a run of those.
> 
> But in all seriousness I honestly wonder how the meeting went when Rock Clouser unveiled his Draco design and shortly after, BC Rich fired him. I really wanna know how that went.




Wait they fired him!?

Im laughing because for that to happen at BCR you mustve really fucked up


----------



## spudmunkey

Huh... Rock is listed on BC rich's wikipedia page for the Dagger, but not the Draco.


----------



## Science_Penguin

possumkiller said:


> Idk Fender did the research showing most new guitarists are female. So it's probably not going to be good for business to go on calling things bich or pussy melter or using tons of naked women in marketing.



Has that ever actually sold anyone on a guitar anyway? Has anyone here bought a guitar specifically because a bikini-clad skinny blonde model held it up a picture once looking vaguely turned on? Even in the 80's did anyone buy into that lizard-brain mentality of "Ooh, hot girl likes it. If I buy it I too can get hot girl."

Well, okay that's a little unfair. That's how I'm looking at it NOW, but back when most of the advertising was done in magazines, it was probably a good way, not necessarily to SELL, but certainly to get eyes on an ad.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Science_Penguin said:


> Has that ever actually sold anyone on a guitar anyway? Has anyone here bought a guitar specifically because a bikini-clad skinny blonde model held it up a picture once looking vaguely turned on? Even in the 80's did anyone buy into that lizard-brain mentality of "Ooh, hot girl likes it. If I buy it I too can get hot girl."
> 
> Well, okay that's a little unfair. That's how I'm looking at it NOW, but back when most of the advertising was done in magazines, it was probably a good way, not necessarily to SELL, but certainly to get eyes on an ad.



It's a subconscious thing, which is why trying to rationalize it just makes it seem silly.

Seeing someone you find attractive (sexually or otherwise) doing or using something plants that idea deep in your psyche.

There are entire degrees based on this concept when used to sell you on something.


----------



## Andromalia

Science_Penguin said:


> Has that ever actually sold anyone on a guitar anyway? Has anyone here bought a guitar specifically because a bikini-clad skinny blonde model held it up a picture once looking vaguely turned on? Even in the 80's did anyone buy into that lizard-brain mentality of "Ooh, hot girl likes it. If I buy it I too can get hot girl."



Someone did, at some point. 
https://reverb.com/fr/item/2510439-...-flying-v-guitar-mij-w-case-mint?locale=fr-FR


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Science_Penguin said:


> Has that ever actually sold anyone on a guitar anyway? Has anyone here bought a guitar specifically because a bikini-clad skinny blonde model held it up a picture once looking vaguely turned on? Even in the 80's did anyone buy into that lizard-brain mentality of "Ooh, hot girl likes it. If I buy it I too can get hot girl."
> 
> Well, okay that's a little unfair. That's how I'm looking at it NOW, but back when most of the advertising was done in magazines, it was probably a good way, not necessarily to SELL, but certainly to get eyes on an ad.




I mean Carl's Jr thinks its a great marketinf strat.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Sex does indeed sell. Even if it's as simple as "hueh hueh, I remember that product... they did da dum commercial wit da tiddies that made me smile... ok, I'll giv u munni."

It is a sort of valid strategy. Get people's attention with the boobs, then give them a guitar. There's a reason it is/was so prevalent. People are getting a little annoyed of it in recent history, though.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I can't wait for EHX and Way Huge to change their product names.

Who can't wait to replace their offensive pedals with Big Toe, Swollen Ankle, Camel Knee, and other puritan approved product names.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I can't wait for EHX and Way Huge to change their product names.
> 
> Who can't wait to replace their offensive pedals with Big Toe, Swollen Ankle, Camel Knee, and other puritan approved product names.




Agreed. I don't believe in the whole bs at all. The CEO of BCR said that he doesnt want to rename the bich, but he said he has to. He said he doesnt agree with that kind of crowd but yet becomes submissive to them? Kinda low testosterone imo


----------



## Mathemagician

I mean, no one said anything about wanting them to change names. They can do anything they want. But those names are and always have been stupid as fuck.

Surprise surprise. Marketing does matter and more people seem to dislike stupid names?

I don’t expect BCR to do a damn thing they don’t think will increase sales. And apparently a name change won-out.

And I genuinely cannot tell if “low-testosterone” is supposed to be a serious insult? Who talks like that?


----------



## Viginez

Mathemagician said:


> Surprise surprise. Marketing does matter and more people seem to dislike stupid names?


so they decided to name it B instead? because it sounds better? really?


----------



## Mathemagician

Idk what to tell you. Jackson has the B-7 model. So there’s a precedent for using that naming convention.

Returning the question to you is it better or worse than “New 6 and 7 strings Bichs in see through green and natural maple finishes!”

Like, I’m not saying I have the solution. Buuuut, which is worse?


----------



## Viginez

it is one of the most iconic shapes/names of the company, that survived decades with no complains.
highly unlikely they suddenly found out that it sounds stupid.


----------



## spudmunkey

I don't know that I've ever bought anything specifically due to sexually-themed advertising, but it sure catches your eye and you're more likely remember the add. i've probably bought or at least considered something I otherwise wouldn't have considered without a reason to review the ad more closely/repeatedly. By myself. With the door closed.




Mathemagician said:


> And I genuinely cannot tell if “low-testosterone” is supposed to be a serious insult? Who talks like that?



"Alphas".


----------



## xzacx

spudmunkey said:


> "Alphas".



Yes, and in the most air quote way possible.


----------



## spudmunkey

xzacx said:


> Yes, and in the most air quote way possible.


----------



## mlp187

Viginez said:


> it is one of the most iconic shapes/names of the company, that survived decades with no complains.
> highly unlikely they suddenly found out that it sounds stupid.


Correct, it always sounded stupid.


----------



## narad

mlp187 said:


> Correct, it always sounded stupid.



^ Look at the testosterone levels on this guy!


----------



## Vyn

narad said:


> ^ Look at the testosterone levels on this guy!



It's over 9000.

Jokes aside, all for more pointy guitars, speculation and what not regarding BC Rich, the 'Alpha' and 'hyper-masculine' bullshit can fuck right off though. That shit whilst being vile anyway will sink a brand in no time.


----------



## gunshow86de

ITT: Low-T, Soy-boi, fluoride drinking coomer betas.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

spudmunkey said:


> Huh... Rock is listed on BC rich's wikipedia page for the Dagger, but not the Draco.



Rock told me himself that he made it


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Mathemagician said:


> And I genuinely cannot tell if “low-testosterone” is supposed to be a serious insult? Who talks like that?



I mean i talk like that? What are you the speech police bro? 

Obviously it was enough of an insult for you to get offended


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean i talk like that? What are you the speech police bro?
> 
> Obviously it was enough of an insult for you to get offended



I don't think anyone is offended, just surprised that people actually talk like an internet meme IRL.


----------



## narad

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean i talk like that? What are you the speech police bro?



Intelligence police I believe.


----------



## Randy

There's nothing directly denigrating to women about the guitar being called the Bich. It's not even spelled like the actual word and it's not like it's got a pair of tits.

It is, however, a stupid as fuck name (so is Shredzilla btw).

That said, I can't wait until the rest of the board finds out they changed the name of the Virgin to the Charlie Kirk signature model or the 'Incel' for short.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> There's nothing directly denigrating to women about the guitar being called the Bich. It's not even spelled like the actual word and it's not like it's got a pair of tits.
> 
> It is, however, a stupid as fuck name (so is Shredzilla btw).
> 
> That said, I can't wait until the rest of the board finds out they changed the name of the Virgin to the Charlie Kirk signature model or the 'Incel' for short.


----------



## xzacx

narad said:


> Intelligence police I believe.


Wait till he finds out that high T level guitarists only play 24.75" scales.


----------



## narad

Randy said:


> There's nothing directly denigrating to women about the guitar being called the Bich. It's not even spelled like the actual word and it's not like it's got a pair of tits.
> 
> It is, however, a stupid as fuck name (so is Shredzilla btw).
> 
> That said, I can't wait until the rest of the board finds out they changed the name of the Virgin to the Charlie Kirk signature model or the 'Incel' for short.



Aw man, they went with Incel and not the iconic and classic CuckCrusher?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

bc rich makes fucking stupid shapes (see draco, warbeast, widow, wave, zombie, ignitor) so of course they have equally stupid names. I for one could give two flying fucks about the name change for the bich. Just give me a damn 7 string ironbird and a new stealth already.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

KnightBrolaire said:


> bc rich makes fucking stupid shapes (see draco, warbeast, widow, wave, zombie, ignitor) so of course they have equally stupid names. I for one could give two flying fucks about the name change for the bich. Just give me a damn 7 string ironbird and a new stealth already.



"BC makes stupid shapes...I don't care...I just want them to make 2 more stupid shapes"

Oh..


----------



## MaxOfMetal

KnightBrolaire said:


> bc rich makes fucking stupid shapes (see draco, warbeast, widow, wave, zombie, ignitor) so of course they have equally stupid names. I for one could give two flying fucks about the name change for the bich. Just give me a damn 7 string ironbird and a new stealth already.



This is the best take.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> "BC makes stupid shapes...I don't care...I just want them to make 2 more stupid shapes"
> 
> Oh..


how dare you besmirch the almighty ironbird and the stealth. Then again I wouldn't expect someone who likes Dracos to have good taste


----------



## Mathemagician

7 string. Iron. Bird.


----------



## Cynicanal

The Draco, Zombie, Wave, Ignitor, Ironbird, Widow, and Stealth are all amazing shapes. I don't know what any of you are smoking.

The Warbeast, on the other hand, is legitimately terrible.


----------



## Mathemagician

The Draco looks like two snot trails. Fire me.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Mathemagician said:


> The Draco looks like two snot trails. Fire me.



This is accurate af


----------



## Merrekof

Cynicanal said:


> The Draco, Zombie, Wave, Ignitor, Ironbird, Widow, and Stealth are all amazing shapes. I don't know what any of you are smoking.
> 
> The Warbeast, on the other hand, is legitimately terrible.


The Warbeast isn't tereible, it is the improved version of the Warlock!


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Agreed. I don't believe in the whole bs at all. The CEO of BCR said that he doesnt want to rename the bich, but he said he has to. He said he doesnt agree with that kind of crowd but yet becomes submissive to them? Kinda low testosterone imo


Dude needs some Low T meds to deal with his issues. Maybe quit using so much BPA ridden plastic with his food and drinks as well. Then perhaps he might grow a pair.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Viginez said:


> so they decided to name it B instead? because it sounds better? really?


Sounds stupider, but what do I know? I think Big Muff is a fine name for a fuzzy distortion pedal from the late 60s.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Vyn said:


> It's over 9000.
> 
> Jokes aside, all for more pointy guitars, speculation and what not regarding BC Rich, the 'Alpha' and 'hyper-masculine' bullshit can fuck right off though. That shit whilst being vile anyway will sink a brand in no time.


I dunno, I am joking but perhaps Justin isn't. But if you can't take a joke, I dunno what to tell you. I'm sure if Mike got silly Twitter complaints about his biggest selling pedal having a "stupid, offensive, misogynistic name," he'd laugh in your face and release another Big Muff variant reissue.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Randy said:


> There's nothing directly denigrating to women about the guitar being called the Bich. It's not even spelled like the actual word and it's not like it's got a pair of tits.
> 
> It is, however, a stupid as fuck name (so is Shredzilla btw).
> 
> That said, I can't wait until the rest of the board finds out they changed the name of the Virgin to the Charlie Kirk signature model or the 'Incel' for short.


So is Draco, Beast, Warlock, and just about every other guitar name under the BC Rich umbrella.

The Incel would be a hysterical guitar name.



xzacx said:


> Wait till he finds out that high T level guitarists only play 24.75" scales.


I think Kevin Frasard might pull a pectoral muscle while playing Papa Roach if he heard that.





DrakkarTyrannis said:


> "BC makes stupid shapes...I don't care...I just want them to make 2 more stupid shapes"
> 
> Oh..


Shh, don't talk logically when Knight wants to be goofy.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Vaso dilators bring the shred.


----------



## Evil Chuck

Nevermind, someone posted it already.


----------



## narad

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I dunno, I am joking but perhaps Justin isn't. But if you can't take a joke, I dunno what to tell you. I'm sure if Mike got silly Twitter complaints about his biggest selling pedal having a "stupid, offensive, misogynistic name," he'd laugh in your face and release another Big Muff variant reissue.



It helps when the the slang is so antiquated that people don't even recognize it as such. Though I welcome Mike to try releasing a Big Vag pedal and seeing how much traction it gets.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Dude needs some Low T meds to deal with his issues. Maybe quit using so much BPA ridden plastic with his food and drinks as well. Then perhaps he might grow a pair.



And cut down on the soy.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Spaced Out Ace said:


> So is Draco, Beast, Warlock, and just about every other guitar name under the BC Rich umbrella.
> 
> The Incel would be a hysterical guitar name.
> 
> 
> I think Kevin Frasard might pull a pectoral muscle while playing Papa Roach if he heard that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shh, don't talk logically when Knight wants to be goofy.



Goofy? I was dead ass serious. Draco, warbeast, ignitor, zombie, widow, wave designs are fucking trash. The Iron Bird and the Stealth are their only designs that still hold any cache in extreme metal crowds, so to me it makes the most sense to bring those back with modernized specs *cough* 7 strings and >25.5" scale lengths*


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

spudmunkey said:


> I don't know that I've ever bought anything specifically due to sexually-themed advertising, but it sure catches your eye and you're more likely remember the add. i've probably bought or at least considered something I otherwise wouldn't have considered without a reason to review the ad more closely/repeatedly. By myself. With the door closed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Alphas".



I still remember those HArdees/Carls JR ads from a long time ago


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

KnightBrolaire said:


> how dare you besmirch the almighty ironbird and the stealth. Then again I wouldn't expect someone who likes Dracos to have good taste


HOOOOOOOWWWW DAAAAARRRREEE YOOOOUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> HOOOOOOOWWWW DAAAAARRRREEE YOOOOUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

KnightBrolaire said:


> Goofy? I was dead ass serious. Draco, warbeast, ignitor, zombie, widow, wave designs are fucking trash. The Iron Bird and the Stealth are their only designs that still hold any cache in extreme metal crowds, so to me it makes the most sense to bring those back with modernized specs *cough* 7 strings and >25.5" scale lengths*



The Stealth is so retarded looking. It looks like a 3rd grader's attempt at drawing a dog.

The Ironbird is alright, but it's essentially the high school drawing of the 3rd grader's drawing..only the high schooler is all puberty edgy now.

To be fair all the shapes are dumb. The Widow looks like an African fertility statue, the Draco looks like surrealist Batman, the Warlock looks like an amputee sex doll.

It's just about finding the kinda dumb that speaks to you and going with it.

It could be worse...at least it's not a superstrat. Those are for people with no imagination


----------



## cwhitey2

Spaced Out Ace said:


> So is Draco, Beast, Warlock, and just about every other guitar name under the BC Rich umbrella.
> 
> The Incel would be a hysterical guitar name.
> 
> 
> I think Kevin Frasard might pull a pectoral muscle while playing Papa Roach if he heard that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shh, don't talk logically when Knight wants to be goofy.




That guy literally looks like the biggest FFDP fan I have ever seen.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

cwhitey2 said:


> That guy literally looks like the biggest FFDP fan I have ever seen.



FFDP makes him happy


DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The Stealth is so retarded looking. It looks like a 3rd grader's attempt at drawing a dog.



Omg this hurts 



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It could be worse...at least it's not a superstrat. Those are for people with no imaginatio



You can fuck off mate


----------



## gunshow86de

cwhitey2 said:


> That guy literally looks like the biggest FFDP fan I have ever seen.



Nah, the guys _in_ Five Finger Death Punch look like the biggest Five Finger Death Punch fans ever.


----------



## Edika

I found the FFDP singers last name so apt I thought it was an alias.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It could be worse...at least it's not a superstrat. Those are for people with no imagination


----------



## cwhitey2

gunshow86de said:


> Nah, the guys _in_ Five Finger Death Punch look like the biggest Five Finger Death Punch fans ever.



Do you even Monster, bro?


----------



## Merrekof

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> It could be worse...at least it's not a superstrat. Those are for people with no imagination



Yeah, nothing beats a supertele!


----------



## efiltsohg

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The Stealth is so retarded looking. It looks like a 3rd grader's attempt at drawing a dog.
> 
> The Ironbird is alright, but it's essentially the high school drawing of the 3rd grader's drawing..only the high schooler is all puberty edgy now.
> 
> To be fair all the shapes are dumb. The Widow looks like an African fertility statue, the Draco looks like surrealist Batman, the Warlock looks like an amputee sex doll.
> 
> It's just about finding the kinda dumb that speaks to you and going with it.
> 
> It could be worse...at least it's not a superstrat. Those are for people with no imagination



I like stealths, ironbirds and warlocks but I upvoted for being hilarious


----------



## Cynicanal

gunshow86de said:


>


How are none of these guys named Kyle?


----------



## Randy

efiltsohg said:


> I like stealths, ironbirds and warlocks but I upvoted for being hilarious



Seconded. It's silly to be an adult and offended by someone else's taste. If you can't enjoy a little self deprecating hyperbole, you're taking yourself too seriously.

I think all three are hideous and that's why I love them.

Back on topic. Dear Zoltan, please make this+1 string with a reversed headstock [before I do]


----------



## Adieu

gunshow86de said:


> Nah, the guys _in_ Five Finger Death Punch look like the biggest Five Finger Death Punch fans ever.



Did they have an amnesty for meth dealers recently or something???


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> FFDP makes him happy
> 
> 
> Omg this hurts
> 
> 
> 
> You can fuck off mate


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Cynicanal said:


> How are none of these guys named Kyle?




Did you check for middle names?



DrakkarTyrannis said:


>



K boomer


----------



## MFB

Has Zoltan always looked like the DJ from the end of Zoolander?


----------



## Randy

MFB said:


> Has Zoltan always looked like the DJ from the end of Zoolander?



I'm not sure but apparently his hair and the other guy's beard both go to the same stylist.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Btw, I don't get why everyone hates FFDP. They're popular, sell out big shows and make music people want to listen to.

Oooooh...I see now.


----------



## Randy

They're lowest common denominator.

A hooker doesn't paid for sex because she's got anything other women don't or even because they're especially good at it. They get paid because they're offering it when everyone else isn't.

I'd submit that FFDP (and other bands like, Nickelback) are popular because they're not easily embarrassed by offering hilariously base shit most people have too much perceived integrity to put out.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Randy said:


> They're lowest common denominator.
> 
> A hooker doesn't paid because she's got anything other women don't or even because they're especially good at it. They get paid because they're offering it when everyone else isn't.
> 
> I'd submit that FFDP (and other bands like, Nickelback) are popular because they're not easily embarrassed by offering hilariously base shit most people have too much perceived integrity to put out.



They're making the music they want and they're successful at it. So successful that their guitarist just bought a legendary guitar brand. More power to them for doing what lots of guitarists wish they could. I just listened to some FFDP to hear what the big deal was. Not my thing. It's Bro metal that you'd hear during a WWE event...but it's catchy so I can see why it's popular. I've heard worse.

Besides this is the same place that worships Periphery..I certainly don't think this is the place that has the inside track to good music. But ya know. To each their own. All personal views.


----------



## Adieu

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Btw, I don't get why everyone hates FFDP. They're popular, sell out big shows and make music people want to listen to.
> 
> Oooooh...I see now.



...because they look like guys who mug people in front of convenience stores?


----------



## Randy

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> They're making the music they want and they're successful at it. So successful that their guitarist just bought a legendary guitar brand. More power to them for doing what lots of guitarists wish they could. I just listened to some FFDP to hear what the big deal was. Not my thing. It's Bro metal that you'd hear during a WWE event...but it's catchy so I can see why it's popular. I've heard worse.
> 
> Besides this is the same place that worships Periphery..I certainly don't think this is the place that has the inside track to good music. But ya know. To each their own. All personal views.



As i said about the Stealth and Ironbirds earlier, saying something is stupid and also admitting you like it aren't mutually exclusive concepts. You're right, people like them and taste is subjective but they're OBJECTIVELY cringey.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Randy said:


> As i said about the Stealth and Ironbirds earlier, saying something is stupid and also admitting you like it aren't mutually exclusive concepts. You're right, people like them and taste is subjective but they're OBJECTIVELY cringey.


You have a point. If their music had a smell it'd be gym sweat, Axe body spray, and Monster energy drinks


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> You have a point. If their music had a smell it'd be gym sweat, Axe body spray, and Monster energy drinks


Thanks, I just threw up in my mouth a little. Just the smell of Monster alone makes me want to vomit.


----------



## Seabeast2000

This is a good Tuesday


----------



## gunshow86de

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Btw, I don't get why everyone hates FFDP. They're popular, sell out big shows and make music people want to listen to.



Outside of the "Final-boss of all the Kyles" aesthetic, my impression of this band has always been that they deliberately took the modern pop-country formula and applied it to metal.


----------



## twguitar

I’m not a fan of FFDP at all but credit where credit is due. Zoltan has stepped up and saved BCR from a certain death, I respect him for that.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

gunshow86de said:


> Outside of the "Final-boss of all the Kyles" aesthetic, my impression of this band has always been that they deliberately took the modern pop-country formula and applied it to metal.


To aggro, bro'd out nu metal, more specifically.


----------



## gunshow86de

Spaced Out Ace said:


> To aggro, bro'd out nu metal, more specifically.



Yeah, I can't quite articulate it adequately, but FFDP shares a certain red-state pandering element with modern pop-country. Nu-metal was more suburban angsty teenager stuff (I was 100% a fan of it growing up ).


----------



## Adieu

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> You have a point. If their music had a smell it'd be gym sweat, Axe body spray, and Monster energy drinks






Spaced Out Ace said:


> Thanks, I just threw up in my mouth a little. Just the smell of Monster alone makes me want to vomit.




....hey hey now, don't you go badmouthing the best (legal) energy potion around


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Adieu said:


> ....hey hey now, don't you go badmouthing the best (legal) energy potion around




Im sorry but reign energy drinks are far better the drink associated with all kyles in the world


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

They kinda look like those older guys that go to locals shows and talk about how they once played with some famous band and that they tried out for a semi-known local band and said no because of scheduling restraints. They also say how cool the pits are, vape, and don't understand the need for 8 strings when 2 is enough for them


----------



## IbanezDaemon

Unleash Godzi…….sorry I mean Unbox Shredzilla!! Figured this vid might be of a little interest to some of You. I quite like this model, could live with the abalone (just!). Sounds pretty neat:


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

SHREDZIIIRRRRAAAA!


----------



## CapinCripes

CapinCripes said:


> Just had a horrifying thought, maybe its that guy from five finger death punch that wanted a dean with an ar-15 carry handle monkey grip, that even dean thought was too silly and stopped selling. Yeah hes been playing his bc riches again recently apparently.


So I guess I called it back in February. They really need to lay off the abalone.


----------



## Adieu

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Im sorry but reign energy drinks are far better the drink associated with all kyles in the world



What's a Kyle?

Is it like a lower-level Trent Brent or Chad?


----------



## Albake21

Didn't they say they were releasing more stripped down models later on without the abalone? If so, I'll wait for those. Although that green/blue shredzilla is just so damn nice looking.


----------



## Adieu

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Im sorry but reign energy drinks are far better the drink associated with all kyles in the world



Idk

Monster Lo-Carb is my poison of choice. Nothing else compares.


----------



## CapinCripes

Adieu said:


> What's a Kyle?
> 
> Is it like a lower-level Trent Brent or Chad?


Think early 2000s Fred Durst with an exclusive diet of monster energy drinks and an obsession with thinking that hes the next big X-Games star.


----------



## Adieu

CapinCripes said:


> Think early 2000s Fred Durst with an exclusive diet of monster energy drinks and an obsession with thinking that hes the next big X-Games star.



Ahhh

So basically ageing sh!theads with teen porn subscriptions on their debit cards, a couple petty criminal convictions, a children's bicycle or skateboard, and a few reaaaaally bad vertically filmed youtube car modding videos?


----------



## Señor Voorhees

I miss the Kyle memes. Ivan Moody gives me super Kyle vibes.


----------



## AxeHappy

Kyles marry Karens. That should tell you everything you need to know.


----------



## Mathemagician

IbanezDaemon said:


> Unleash Godzi…….sorry I mean Unbox Shredzilla!! Figured this vid might be of a little interest to some of You. I quite like this model, could live with the abalone (just!). Sounds pretty neat:




Oh fuck someone’s posting BCR’s in the BCR thread! Quoted for visibility.


----------



## Adieu

Wait up I googled it, y'all been deceiving me

Kyle is Karen's delinquent bastard SON from a one-night fling with Trent Brent and/or Chad (possibly all 3)


----------



## spudmunkey

AxeHappy said:


> Kyles marry Karens. That should tell you everything you need to know.



Whaaaa? No way...Kyles are definitely the fruit of Karens' loins.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Adieu said:


> Wait up I googled it, y'all been deceiving me
> 
> Kyle is Karen's delinquent bastard SON from a one-night fling with Trent Brent and/or Chad



Yes thats how the monsters came into being, but we are generations deep now, unrelated kyles and karens of accepted breeding age ratios exist.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

The inner 16 year old is yelling at me to buy the blue green one but the 27 year old me is saying no


----------



## Mathemagician

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> The inner 16 year old is yelling at me to buy the blue green one but the 27 year old me is saying no



Do both chug monster.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Adieu said:


> Idk
> 
> Monster Lo-Carb is my poison of choice. Nothing else compares.


I do those and the rehabs


----------



## spudmunkey

Were there ever any neck-through Mockingbirds in years/decades past, that had the visible neck stripes on the front of the guitar AND the carved top?

I think the ones i remember seeing might have been "mock" visible neck-through, by making a 5-piece, striped top.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

spudmunkey said:


> Were there ever any neck-through Mockingbirds in years/decades past, that had the visible neck stripes on the front of the guitar?
> 
> I think the ones i remember seeing might have been "mock" visible neck-through, by making a 5-piece, striped top.



Yes it was traditionally not neckpieces on the old ones. Stringers i think they were called but as i understand they were attached as part of the wings. Im sure some were inlaid in the top in some cases.


----------



## gunshow86de

The Music Farm got in a bunch of the new BCR's, pics on their Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/the.music.farm/?hl=en


----------



## spudmunkey

wedge_destroyer said:


> Yes it was traditionally not neckpieces on the old ones. Stringers i think they were called but as i understand they were attached as part of the wings. Im sure some were inlaid in the top in some cases.



Well, stringer's I'm still OK with, but I don't know if those are seen on carved top models.

For example, here's one that has a carved top, but I am 100% they didn't make a quilted maple neck.


----------



## spudmunkey

gunshow86de said:


> The Music Farm got in a bunch of the new BCR's, pics on their Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/the.music.farm/?hl=en



They should really turn off the "beauty mode" on their cameras...the first photo of this Mockingbird looks like there's no figuring on the outside edge at all. it looks like it's been "softened" out. https://www.instagram.com/p/B5D-9pondPu/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link


----------



## Cynicanal

spudmunkey said:


> Well, stringer's I'm still OK with, but I don't know if those are seen on carved top models.
> 
> For example, here's one that has a carved top, but I am 100% they didn't make a quilted maple neck.


It's not a quilt-maple neck. The way it worked on the old US models with tops was similar to how Jackson does neck-throughs, except the stringers were full-body thickness.


----------



## Randy

gunshow86de said:


> Yeah, I can't quite articulate it adequately, but FFDP shares a certain red-state pandering element with modern pop-country.



Perhaps that both fan bases are made up of general contractors with back problems and women that sell Paparazzi jewelry?


----------



## Randy

Randy said:


> Perhaps that both fan bases are made up of general contractors with back problems and women that sell Paparazzi jewelry?



Both are single handedly responsible for the next generation of Juggalos.


----------



## Randy

Randy said:


> Both are single handedly responsible for the next generation of Juggalos.



80% of concert tickets for both fan bases are purchased with fraudulent disability benefits.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Albake21 said:


> Didn't they say they were releasing more stripped down models later on without the abalone? If so, I'll wait for those. Although that green/blue shredzilla is just so damn nice looking.




Yes they will be doing so. I expect full 100 percent release 2020.



Adieu said:


> Idk
> 
> Monster Lo-Carb is my poison of choice. Nothing else compares.



Gonna have to give that a try


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Adieu said:


> Wait up I googled it, y'all been deceiving me
> 
> Kyle is Karen's delinquent bastard SON from a one-night fling with Trent Brent and/or Chad (possibly all 3)




YES!


----------



## BusinessMan

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yes they will be doing so. I expect full 100 percent release 2020.
> 
> 
> 
> Gonna have to give that a try



+1 for monster low carb being my go to. And if I can find it, assault


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

The906 said:


> I do those and the rehabs



Should try the Reign. It is owned by Monster and it is like Bang but without Creatin


----------



## Solodini

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> The inner 16 year old is yelling at me to buy the blue green one but the 27 year old me is saying no



Appropriately, given the thread, sounds like the metal version of R Kelly's Bump N' Grind, probably as performed by Kyle. 

R Kyley.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Solodini said:


> Appropriately, given the thread, sounds like the metal version of R Kelly's Bump N' Grind, probably as performed by Kyle.
> 
> R Kyley.



UNLEASHING INNER KYLE. No I can't.


----------



## cardinal

I'm so lost. I have no idea what anyone is talking about in here. The stuff the Music Farm has looks pretty great.


----------



## Adieu

cardinal said:


> I'm so lost. I have no idea what anyone is talking about in here. The stuff the Music Farm has looks pretty great.



TrailerTrash Metal tropes, apparently


----------



## R34CH

Mathemagician said:


> Do both chug monster.



Heehee, I hope the Chugmonsta is the follow up to the Shredzilla. 6 strings. 30" scale. Pure abalone top. Pure riffage.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Adieu said:


> TrailerTrash Metal tropes, apparently



Do we have a name for someone like this? Like how the incels use chad/stacy


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Soooo...BC Rich posted that they're shipping guitars and basses. In the pic are Widow basses. I hope to sweet buttered fuck that they bring back the Widow. My bassist has one and I can't keep my hands off it. I freaking love that thing


----------



## vilk

Say what you want about Zoltan Bathory, but his DBZ signature guitar was really cool. If it hadn't had the inlay I might have bought one that was for sale near me this one time.


----------



## Albake21

R34CH said:


> 30" scale. Pure abalone top.


This is absolutely my nightmare guitar lol


----------



## Albake21

vilk said:


> Say what you want about Zoltan Bathory, but his DBZ signature guitar was really cool. If it hadn't had the inlay I might have bought one that was for sale near me this one time.


I remember really wanting this guitar, but sadly the inlay killed it for me. Such a cool look though with solid features. Also was a bit nervous about DBZ since there isn't much out there about them.


----------



## Merrekof

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Soooo...BC Rich posted that they're shipping guitars and basses. In the pic are Widow basses. I hope to sweet buttered fuck that they bring back the Widow. My bassist has one and I can't keep my hands off it. I freaking love that thing


Ow hell no!!! to each their own but BC Rich only had one cool bass imo and that was the Beast NJ I owned years ago..


----------



## Bdtunn

Bc rich posted zoltan with the new iron bird. 
If I may start the complaining “but it’s not a reverse headstock...” 
your turn


----------



## Hollowway

vilk said:


> Say what you want about Zoltan Bathory, but his DBZ signature guitar was really cool. If it hadn't had the inlay I might have bought one that was for sale near me this one time.



It's nice, but I feel like the pickup rings aren't quite prominent enough.


----------



## Bdtunn

Here’s the pic


----------



## gunshow86de

I feel like you buried the lede with that. He has a Monster Energy logo, ON HIS SPLINT/CAST/BOOT THING!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Adieu

gunshow86de said:


> I feel like you buried the lede with that. He has a Monster Energy logo, ON HIS SPLINT/CAST/BOOT THING!!!!!!!!!!



Damn... might be time to start stealthing cans with brown paper bags

This is like Affliction all over again....was nice solid brand that makes reaaaallly good quality shit, but turns into a fukken embarrassment to be seen in public with it because they pay obnoxious undesirables to flash their logos everywhere


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Soooo...BC Rich posted that they're shipping guitars and basses. In the pic are Widow basses. I hope to sweet buttered fuck that they bring back the Widow. My bassist has one and I can't keep my hands off it. I freaking love that thing




Where they post this?


----------



## stevexc

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Where they post this?




Instagram.


----------



## manu80

anyways it's a usa custom so the regular version could still get a reverse headstock.
I like it better to see him dressed casual instead of those red traning suit hockets...t ! less bling bling.and then we wonder why there's 1 ton of abalone on those new axes...!!!!


----------



## cardinal

Yeah that's not an import. Looks cool though. I sure hope they can get a US Custom Shop up and running.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

cardinal said:


> Yeah that's not an import. Looks cool though. I sure hope they can get a US Custom Shop up and running.




They have em up and running. My friend who is a dealer has a custom warlock being made and coming soon.

They need to organize how to do it though. Website for the custom shop is shit and there is no like official order form.

Mr. Xavier needs to get this established


----------



## Rev2010

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> They have em up and running. My friend who is a dealer has a custom warlock being made and coming soon.



If I may ask, did he happen to mention the cost? Last time I checked the price was about $6000.


Rev.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Rev2010 said:


> If I may ask, did he happen to mention the cost? Last time I checked the price was about $6000.
> 
> 
> Rev.




He had not mention of cost. I am assuming around the 4-6k range. According to bcr all of it is handmade and cnc used only when necessary so seems a bit more reasonable imo.


----------



## cardinal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> They have em up and running. My friend who is a dealer has a custom warlock being made and coming soon.
> 
> They need to organize how to do it though. Website for the custom shop is shit and there is no like official order form.
> 
> Mr. Xavier needs to get this established



Yeah, I guess what I mean by "up and running" is to the point where I'm extremely confident that I'd actually get a quality guitar with the specs I ordered. It may well be that the shop as it is now will do that; I just don't have that confidence because I just haven't seen any track record yet. Particularly because anything I ordered would likely have unusual specs (at least 7 strings), I'd really need some confidence to place a $6k order.


----------



## spudmunkey

So far out of everything they have shown, the one that I like the best is still the 50th anniversary, spalted Mockingbird.

Yes, even with that head stock.

Yes, even with the 50th anniversary inlay.

What I mean by that, though, is that they still haven't shown anything that I like enough to really actually consider purchasing.


----------



## Adieu

Rev2010 said:


> If I may ask, did he happen to mention the cost? Last time I checked the price was about $6000.
> 
> 
> Rev.




6 grand???

Seems absurd.... or.... Is this massive real-world inflation hidden behind falling prices for mass-produced temporary goods and cheap food?


----------



## Rev2010

Adieu said:


> 6 grand???



Yup, 6k. That price range is starting to seem pretty common place these days which baffles me as I was always of the belief that the market is based on supply & demand. I would have *thought* 6k is out of the reach or reasonability of most guitar players but I guess not. My custom Jackson 7-string Kelly with spalted maple top and headstock with custom 11-13th fret inlay cost me something like $3700 when I ordered it. The actual price now to have it reproduced is probably between 6-6.5k since Jackson made all 7's have to be MasterBuilt now and prices have all gone up. All this after the Fender acquisition. First item I own that has significantly appreciated in value!


Rev.


----------



## DeathbyDesign

gunshow86de said:


> I feel like you buried the lede with that. He has a Monster Energy logo, ON HIS SPLINT/CAST/BOOT THING!!!!!!!!!!


I bet he can kick through so much drywall with that cast now...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

gunshow86de said:


> I feel like you buried the lede with that. He has a Monster Energy logo, ON HIS SPLINT/CAST/BOOT THING!!!!!!!!!!


that ironbird really needs an extra string


----------



## gunshow86de

DeathbyDesign said:


> I bet he can kick through so much drywall with that cast now...



I suspect we're dealing with a chicken or egg scenario; putting holes in drywall could be the _cause_ of the foot injury.


----------



## Vyn

gunshow86de said:


> I suspect we're dealing with a chicken or egg scenario; putting holes in drywall could be the _cause_ of the foot injury.



Nah, hole was most likely caused from a Five Finger Death Punch...


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Vyn said:


> Nah, hole was most likely caused from a Five Finger Death Punch...




Get it because thats the bands name!

Lmao


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

KnightBrolaire said:


> that ironbird really needs an extra string


Yeah, a high string. (They tune pretty low)


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Yeah, a high string. (They tune pretty low)


psssh not like zoltan is gonna ever use an extra high string.


----------



## Vyn

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Get it because thats the bands name!
> 
> Lmao



Was trying to be punny, I failed.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Merrekof said:


> Ow hell no!!! to each their own but BC Rich only had one cool bass imo and that was the Beast NJ I owned years ago..


You're entitled to your wrong opinion


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Yeah, I guess what I mean by "up and running" is to the point where I'm extremely confident that I'd actually get a quality guitar with the specs I ordered. It may well be that the shop as it is now will do that; I just don't have that confidence because I just haven't seen any track record yet. Particularly because anything I ordered would likely have unusual specs (at least 7 strings), I'd really need some confidence to place a $6k order.



I've been a pretty staunch critic of the BCR operation, in all its forms over the decades, but Ron Estrada over at the BCR CS is the real deal. He's made 7s and 8s, and has been doing so for something like three decades now. Plus he has Neal Moser (and I believe the rest of his team) helping out and Dan Lawrence doing the finish work.

I have no doubt they can produce a great guitar over there. Though, it's not going to be cheap and it's not going to be fast.

It's worth mentioning that the custom shop has been run as almost an entirely different entity than the production stuff for quite some time.


----------



## dhgrind

well ffdp confirms that its actually dead i think.


----------



## 777timesgod

Censoring the legendary Bich name to appease the left wing (not weird though since Bernie Rico changed his own family name to appease the right wing in the 70s), overpriced guitars aimed at progy hipsters, Kerry King leaving, no Kahlers, no Death metal guitarists' signature models (Suffocation come back...). It is now safe to say #NotMyBCRich

I feel obliged to post the below 25th anniversary model to balance it out. Metal is meant to be provocative, rebellious and quite silly, that is the whole point of it. If you feel hurt, take some time to consider that a piece of wood aimed at tattooed hairy people who head bang all day ruined your mood...



Next thing you know, we will censor everything to calm down the prudes of the P.C. police. Maybe I will create a thread on the forum purely for censoring guitar names and metal artists. For example the Gibson V is offensive as it implies that male guitarists are handling the "V"-agina, from now on it will be known as "Arrow shaped guitar pointing upwards". Guns N Roses album Appetite for Destruction will be re-recorded as Appetite for cooperation between people of different values and beliefs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

777timesgod said:


> Censoring the legendary Bich name to appease the left wing (not weird though since Bernie Rico changed his own family name to appease the right wing in the 70s), overpriced guitars aimed at progy hipsters, Kerry King leaving, no Kahlers, no Death metal guitarists' signature models (Suffocation come back...). It is now safe to say #NotMyBCRich
> 
> I feel obliged to post the below 25th anniversary model to balance it out. Metal is meant to be provocative, rebellious and quite silly, that is the whole point of it. If you feel hurt, take some time to consider that a piece of wood aimed at tattooed hairy people who head bang all day ruined your mood...
> View attachment 74819
> 
> 
> Next thing you know, we will censor everything to calm down the prudes of the P.C. police. Maybe I will create a thread on the forum purely for censoring guitar names and metal artists. For example the Gibson V is offensive as it implies that male guitarists are handling the "V"-agina, from now on it will be known as "Arrow shaped guitar pointing upwards". Guns N Roses album Appetite for Destruction will be re-recorded as Appetite for cooperation between people of different values and beliefs.











Whoever said that even folks who like BCR fucking hate them was spot on. 

They've been back for 15 minutes, let's see what happens.


----------



## narad

777timesgod said:


> Censoring the legendary Bich name to appease the left wing (not weird though since Bernie Rico changed his own family name to appease the right wing in the 70s), overpriced guitars aimed at progy hipsters, Kerry King leaving, no Kahlers, no Death metal guitarists' signature models (Suffocation come back...). It is now safe to say #NotMyBCRich
> 
> I feel obliged to post the below 25th anniversary model to balance it out. Metal is meant to be provocative, rebellious and quite silly, that is the whole point of it. If you feel hurt, take some time to consider that a piece of wood aimed at tattooed hairy people who head bang all day ruined your mood...
> View attachment 74819
> 
> 
> Next thing you know, we will censor everything to calm down the prudes of the P.C. police. Maybe I will create a thread on the forum purely for censoring guitar names and metal artists. For example the Gibson V is offensive as it implies that male guitarists are handling the "V"-agina, from now on it will be known as "Arrow shaped guitar pointing upwards". Guns N Roses album Appetite for Destruction will be re-recorded as Appetite for cooperation between people of different values and beliefs.



But that's not provocative, rebellious, or quite silly. It's just tacky and cringe-worthy. It's like the guitar version of truck nuts, or "I'm with stupid" t-shirts. It doesn't create a strong reaction of "that's cool" -- it's a strong reaction of, "I feel so bad for the person that thinks that's cool".


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I always thought "Bich" was a tacky name, not so much offensive. I guess that fits the overall aesthetic of bc rich, at least their sort of cheesy/edgy past, but I can sort of understand why they'd want to change it, not just to be PC. I sometimes cringe at the dumb names I've given things. Every now and again my brain likes to remind me of my first email address or band name. I'd like to pretend those names never happened. "The fucking fuckers" is worth forgetting about. If they're trying to rebrand into something a little more serious, it just makes sense to me.


----------



## possumkiller

777timesgod said:


> Censoring the legendary Bich name to appease the left wing (not weird though since Bernie Rico changed his own family name to appease the right wing in the 70s), overpriced guitars aimed at progy hipsters, Kerry King leaving, no Kahlers, no Death metal guitarists' signature models (Suffocation come back...). It is now safe to say #NotMyBCRich
> 
> I feel obliged to post the below 25th anniversary model to balance it out. Metal is meant to be provocative, rebellious and quite silly, that is the whole point of it. If you feel hurt, take some time to consider that a piece of wood aimed at tattooed hairy people who head bang all day ruined your mood...
> View attachment 74819
> 
> 
> Next thing you know, we will censor everything to calm down the prudes of the P.C. police. Maybe I will create a thread on the forum purely for censoring guitar names and metal artists. For example the Gibson V is offensive as it implies that male guitarists are handling the "V"-agina, from now on it will be known as "Arrow shaped guitar pointing upwards". Guns N Roses album Appetite for Destruction will be re-recorded as Appetite for cooperation between people of different values and beliefs.


It's not the fact that they put a close up of the ass crack of a woman in a thong on the front of a guitar named Bich that offends me. It's the fact that it's a thin white woman with a very clear thigh gap. Why was there no plus size or different skin color options available?


----------



## Mathemagician

It’s like teenage edgelords never stop being teenage edgelords, no matter how old they get.


----------



## narad

Mathemagician said:


> It’s like teenage edgelords never stop being teenage edgelords, no matter how old they get.



#edgedads


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

777timesgod said:


> Censoring the legendary Bich name to appease the left wing (not weird though since Bernie Rico changed his own family name to appease the right wing in the 70s), overpriced guitars aimed at progy hipsters, Kerry King leaving, no Kahlers, no Death metal guitarists' signature models (Suffocation come back...). It is now safe to say #NotMyBCRich
> 
> I feel obliged to post the below 25th anniversary model to balance it out. Metal is meant to be provocative, rebellious and quite silly, that is the whole point of it. If you feel hurt, take some time to consider that a piece of wood aimed at tattooed hairy people who head bang all day ruined your mood...
> View attachment 74819
> 
> 
> Next thing you know, we will censor everything to calm down the prudes of the P.C. police. Maybe I will create a thread on the forum purely for censoring guitar names and metal artists. For example the Gibson V is offensive as it implies that male guitarists are handling the "V"-agina, from now on it will be known as "Arrow shaped guitar pointing upwards". Guns N Roses album Appetite for Destruction will be re-recorded as Appetite for cooperation between people of different values and beliefs.


Nice.


----------



## Fred the Shred

777timesgod said:


> For example the Gibson V is offensive as it implies that male guitarists are handling the "V"-agina, from now on it will be known as "Arrow shaped guitar pointing upwards". Guns N Roses album Appetite for Destruction will be re-recorded as Appetite for cooperation between people of different values and beliefs.



By saying "the arrow points upwards", you are conveying an image of superiority via the arrow as a phallic symbol being erect, thus ready to exact dominance over females. You never fooled me, patriarchy's accomplice!


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

possumkiller said:


> It's not the fact that they put a close up of the ass crack of a woman in a thong on the front of a guitar named Bich that offends me. It's the fact that it's a thin white woman with a very clear thigh gap. Why was there no plus size or different skin color options available?




And to add she is probably able bodied to make it worse


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

The PC police ruin eveything fun. Cant argue with that


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

So chondro guitars which is a dealer is going to do a limited run of 36 guitars, 3 models of 12 in different colors of the iron birds


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

If this is in the 1000-1200 obo range it is great


----------



## cardinal

I bought a pretty expensive guitar from Chondro's before. He's a solid dude, so I think his run should go smoothly. Should be awesome. If I at all had interest in a 6-string, a single-hum Ironbird with a Floyd and a solid finish would definitely be near the top of that list.


----------



## Chanson

Hopefully bc rich notices the interest in this order, and takes note. 

It checks pretty much all of the boxes people are asking for.


----------



## Adieu

possumkiller said:


> It's not the fact that they put a close up of the ass crack of a woman in a thong on the front of a guitar named Bich that offends me. It's the fact that it's a thin white woman with a very clear thigh gap. Why was there no plus size or different skin color options available?



Dimensional limitations, dude

A nice Phat Azz print could only be put horizontally and on a dreadnought-ish acoustic shape


----------



## Blytheryn

cardinal said:


> I bought a pretty expensive guitar from Chondro's before. He's a solid dude, so I think his run should go smoothly. Should be awesome. If I at all had interest in a 6-string, a single-hum Ironbird with a Floyd and a solid finish would definitely be near the top of that list.




THEY DECIDE TO MAKE MY DAEMONESS CUSTOM IRONBIRD... NOW?!?!?!!!!!1

I’m good. Glad to see more birds out in the wild soon.


----------



## gunshow86de

Is it finally my turn to be that guy?

I want a neck pickup and 24-5/8" scale length!!!!!!


----------



## Viginez

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> The PC police ruin eveything fun. Cant argue with that


p.c. rich


----------



## possumkiller

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> View attachment 74824
> View attachment 74825
> 
> 
> So chondro guitars which is a dealer is going to do a limited run of 36 guitars, 3 models of 12 in different colors of the iron birds


Any word on which body and headstock exactly? Original Ironbird shape with Ironbird headstock or the later versions?


----------



## bassplayer8

Randy said:


> That said, I can't wait until the rest of the board finds out they changed the name of the Virgin to the Charlie Kirk signature model or the 'Incel' for short.



Didn't realize the BC Rich virgin has a face too small for its face.


----------



## spudmunkey

Adieu said:


> Dimensional limitations, dude
> 
> A nice Phat Azz print could only be put horizontally and on a dreadnought-ish acoustic shape



Might need more of a "jumbo" for that.


----------



## Mathemagician

So any mock-ups available of the Iron Bird run?


----------



## possumkiller

spudmunkey said:


> Might need more of a "jumbo" for that.


Dude. Just put some Bich cutouts on it and paint some big black Brazilian booty on it.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

gunshow86de said:


> Is it finally my turn to be that guy?
> 
> I want a neck pickup and 24-5/8" scale length!!!!!!




NOOOOOOOO.




Viginez said:


> p.c. rich




This is great


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

possumkiller said:


> Any word on which body and headstock exactly? Original Ironbird shape with Ironbird headstock or the later versions?




I think mkii. As for a headstock i dunno.



Mathemagician said:


> So any mock-ups available of the Iron Bird run?




He is coming up with some soon


----------



## Adieu

spudmunkey said:


> Might need more of a "jumbo" for that.



Merkin bushbridge!!


----------



## efiltsohg

777timesgod said:


> Censoring the legendary Bich name to appease the left wing (not weird though since Bernie Rico changed his own family name to appease the right wing in the 70s), overpriced guitars aimed at progy hipsters, Kerry King leaving, no Kahlers, no Death metal guitarists' signature models (Suffocation come back...). It is now safe to say #NotMyBCRich
> 
> I feel obliged to post the below 25th anniversary model to balance it out. Metal is meant to be provocative, rebellious and quite silly, that is the whole point of it. If you feel hurt, take some time to consider that a piece of wood aimed at tattooed hairy people who head bang all day ruined your mood...
> View attachment 74819
> 
> 
> Next thing you know, we will censor everything to calm down the prudes of the P.C. police. Maybe I will create a thread on the forum purely for censoring guitar names and metal artists. For example the Gibson V is offensive as it implies that male guitarists are handling the "V"-agina, from now on it will be known as "Arrow shaped guitar pointing upwards". Guns N Roses album Appetite for Destruction will be re-recorded as Appetite for cooperation between people of different values and beliefs.



I remember seeing that one advertised in a guitar magazine


----------



## Mathemagician

This thread title is getting more ridiculous. Love it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> This thread title is getting more ridiculous. Love it.



The character limit is really harshing my mellow.


----------



## ThePIGI King

MaxOfMetal said:


> The character limit is really harshing my mellow.


You're a super moderator. Pester the powers that be to change the limit.

I wanna see the threat title for this and the Abasai thread evlove.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ThePIGI King said:


> You're a super moderator. Pester the powers that be to change the limit.
> 
> I wanna see the threat title for this and the Abasai thread evlove.



I'm just going to have to get better at internet shorthand.


----------



## narad

Chokey Chicken said:


> "The fucking fuckers" is worth forgetting about. If they're trying to rebrand into something a little more serious, it just makes sense to me.



You were just ahead of your time:


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'm just going to have to get better at internet shorthand.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

narad said:


> You were just ahead of your time:



I remember seeing that way back and feeling like I was being watched. I remember the knobs having obscene pictures and dumb names too, but maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Edit: there are obscene cartoons and only one strangely named "reem your ass" knob. Truly a work of art. Loved the guy's attitude who, I think, made it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Chokey Chicken said:


> I remember seeing that way back and feeling like I was being watched. I remember the knobs having obscene pictures and dumb names too, but maybe I'm remembering wrong.
> 
> Edit: there are obscene cartoons and only one strangely named "reem your ass" knob. Truly a work of art. Loved the guy's attitude who, I think, made it.



This world doesn't deserve Metasonix.


----------



## Rosal76

possumkiller said:


> Any word on which body and headstock exactly? Original Ironbird shape with Ironbird headstock or the later versions?





Mathemagician said:


> So any mock-ups available of the Iron Bird run?



I saw this picture on the Official B.C. Rich Unlimited Facebook page. According to what they are saying, the guitars are computer mock-ups and are still a work in progress.


----------



## gunshow86de

A less boomer-tech view of the mock-ups. 

Digging the red.


----------



## Rosal76

The red one looks awesome. Reminds me of the one Trey Azagthoth owns.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I almost feel like a Kahler would be a better choice to give it more of that old school vibe.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I hate that headstock.

They shouldve done the same one that isnt as fat or the beast headstock


----------



## cardinal

yikes that is the WORST BC Rich headstock (is that called the Harpoon headstock?). Man I'd rather have the damn Widow on it. Ideal would be the old-school pointy one. That one seems to suit the Ironbird best. But even the more recent pointy one would be better than that.


----------



## possumkiller

I think the Ironbird headstock that was originally designed for the Ironbird suits the Ironbird best.


----------



## Mathemagician

Digging the vibes off the white one. However I’m good on single pickup guitars. 

Personal taste wise the upper cutaway isn’t deep enough and the headstock is god awful.


----------



## Viginez

ewwww...my first reaction when i saw that headstock...they chose the worst of all

this would be best


----------



## Chanson

I can get past the headstock. I can not get past the abalone on other models. If I can scrape together the funds by the time he's taking orders I'm getting one!


----------



## Merrekof

See, this makes it soooo hard for a guitar builder. You are all bitching about the headstock but I actually like that!


----------



## BusinessMan

I don’t usually like white guitars, but this one is pretty sick. 



gunshow86de said:


> A less boomer-tech view of the mock-ups.
> 
> Digging the red.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

cardinal said:


> yikes that is the WORST BC Rich headstock (is that called the Harpoon headstock?). Man I'd rather have the damn Widow on it. Ideal would be the old-school pointy one. That one seems to suit the Ironbird best. But even the more recent pointy one would be better than that.




Yea, shit is fuckin hideous.




Merrekof said:


> See, this makes it soooo hard for a guitar builder. You are all bitching about the headstock but I actually like that!



Dude fr the headstock is atrocious


----------



## Viginez

that headstock belongs to the ultra old ironbird shape
but this mix is weird
just go full oldschool or full modern


----------



## Marked Man

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I feel the same way bro. I would've probably jumped the gun on something by now because my curiousity is getting the best of me, but the scale is a deal breaker, for comfort reasons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh boy
> 
> 
> 
> I can see what you are saying, but as a player I like the 25.5" scale length. I like BCR and I have been invested in this relaunch and have been holding off on buying all other guitars until they come out with the full lineup. I know they are coming out with 25.5" shredzillas with fr's, but it would be cool to see alternate shapes aswell.
> 
> Plus it is just weird and doesn't make any sense to have 24 frets, 24.625" scale and a floyd? I dunno just seems real weird IMO.



I have an NJ Classic series B.C. Rich Eagle from about 10 years ago with 25.5" and consider that an improvement! Great tone and feel and I don't feel crowded in the upper frets.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Marked Man said:


> I have an NJ Classic series B.C. Rich Eagle from about 10 years ago with 25.5" and consider that an improvement! Great tone and feel and I don't feel crowded in the upper frets.




Exactly


----------



## dhgrind

Rosal76 said:


> I saw this picture on the Official B.C. Rich Unlimited Facebook page. According to what they are saying, the guitars are computer mock-ups and are still a work in progress.



any word on scale length and pricing?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

dhgrind said:


> any word on scale length and pricing?



Scale is to be 25.5", but the price hasn't been posted yet.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

dhgrind said:


> any word on scale length and pricing?



Scale length is 25.5 pricing is yet to be stated


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

https://bcrich.com/product/shredzilla-8-prophecy-archtop-with-floyd-rose/

For all you 8 string fr bros your wish has been answered


----------



## Chanson

According to their most recent Instagram post, ironbirds are "back in production". 

No info at all other than that. Honestly the lack of details and transparency with this relaunch is really frustrating. It doesnt make me optimistic about holding out to buy one of their guitars.


----------



## cardinal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> https://bcrich.com/product/shredzilla-8-prophecy-archtop-with-floyd-rose/
> 
> For all you 8 string fr bros your wish has been answered



Dammit. The spalt finish might get me.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Chanson said:


> According to their most recent Instagram post, ironbirds are "back in production".
> 
> No info at all other than that. Honestly the lack of details and transparency with this relaunch is really frustrating. It doesnt make me optimistic about holding out to buy one of their guitars.




I would feel the same way, but you have to realize there are more than 20 models they are making and have had issues producing everything.

I would be worried about how the quality is and how they are for the price. I rather they take their time (although i am an impatient asshole) if they make something better than MIK Schecter or ESP E-II then i will buy it.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I would also like to add that redblanket guitars has the previews listed along with prices and a lot of them seem to be the 1400-1600 range. Some might think this is expensive for MIK stuff but on American musical supply they listed some of the new schecters that are WMI and they are around the same pricing as the new BCR stuff so i wonder if the WMI factory has increased pricing


----------



## trem licking

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> https://bcrich.com/product/shredzilla-8-prophecy-archtop-with-floyd-rose/
> 
> For all you 8 string fr bros your wish has been answered



Fucking FINALLY! now I'm torn on which one haha... Kinda like the spalted but the red one has fishmans... Decisions decisions. I don't have any experience with either pickups so maybe this will be a looks purchase


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

trem licking said:


> Fucking FINALLY! now I'm torn on which one haha... Kinda like the spalted but the red one has fishmans... Decisions decisions. I don't have any experience with either pickups so maybe this will be a looks purchase




I know that the fishmans are finger lickin good so you cant go wrong with those 

Dont know much about dimarzio so... yeah


----------



## Hollowway

trem licking said:


> Fucking FINALLY! now I'm torn on which one haha... Kinda like the spalted but the red one has fishmans... Decisions decisions. I don't have any experience with either pickups so maybe this will be a looks purchase


Same.  I wish I could see it in person. I'm leaning toward the spalted maple one, but the quilted red one could be pretty cool if it's done well. And, like you say, it's got the Fishmans.

EDIT: Wait, where did you see that the red one has fishmans? I think the Fishmans may only be on that one proto, which was 25.5". The spec page at BCRs site, and Red Blanket, both show Dimarzios for the 26.5" 8s.

EDIT 2: It's also worth pointing out that the photo on the BCR site doesn't match the description. The photo shows three knobs and inlays on the whole neck, but the description (specs) shows two knobs and a kill switch, and an inlay only at the 12th fret. I guess we'll still have to wait for Red Blanket to get some in stock to see what they'll actually look like.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hollowway said:


> Same.  I wish I could see it in person. I'm leaning toward the spalted maple one, but the quilted red one could be pretty cool if it's done well. And, like you say, it's got the Fishmans.
> 
> EDIT: Wait, where did you see that the red one has fishmans? I think the Fishmans may only be on that one proto, which was 25.5". The spec page at BCRs site, and Red Blanket, both show Dimarzios for the 26.5" 8s.
> 
> EDIT 2: It's also worth pointing out that the photo on the BCR site doesn't match the description. The photo shows three knobs and inlays on the whole neck, but the description (specs) shows two knobs and a kill switch, and an inlay only at the 12th fret. I guess we'll still have to wait for Red Blanket to get some in stock to see what they'll actually look like.



I dunno. I am not an 8 guy, but I may be pulling the trigger on a shredzilla (might hold off to get an ironbird if they fix the ugly ass headstock).

Plus I gotta hold off for like a month since I have an unexpected NGD coming up within the week


----------



## Hollowway

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> unexpected NGD



 These two words accurately describe why none of us will retire early.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hollowway said:


> These two words accurately describe why none of us will retire early.



I mean I did sell a guitar and have another one listed that might sell soon....

who am I kidding, the money I made off of those sales will be forefitted. BCR is coming out with some goodies and so is schecter.

If the new BCR is good, then I am gonna have a problem come 2020. Plus this NGD is neither of them and is an unexpected purchase for me.

Put the money into a roth ira? Stocks? Bonds? Mutual Funds? 401K?

Nope


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I just want that Widow bass. I wish it was a P/J style pickup combo but whatever...I'll buy what they have and hopefully others will do the same so they'll make more in different options


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I just want that Widow bass. I wish it was a P/J style pickup combo but whatever...I'll buy what they have and hopefully others will do the same so they'll make more in different options


----------



## trem licking

I may get risky and wait till after namm to grab one. Don't expect these to fly away too quickly but I guess ya never know (fingers crossed)


----------



## trem licking

Hollowway said:


> Same.  I wish I could see it in person. I'm leaning toward the spalted maple one, but the quilted red one could be pretty cool if it's done well. And, like you say, it's got the Fishmans.
> 
> EDIT: Wait, where did you see that the red one has fishmans? I think the Fishmans may only be on that one proto, which was 25.5". The spec page at BCRs site, and Red Blanket, both show Dimarzios for the 26.5" 8s.
> 
> EDIT 2: It's also worth pointing out that the photo on the BCR site doesn't match the description. The photo shows three knobs and inlays on the whole neck, but the description (specs) shows two knobs and a kill switch, and an inlay only at the 12th fret. I guess we'll still have to wait for Red Blanket to get some in stock to see what they'll actually look like.


Well in that case, I will probably end up with the spalt. I like the red one too, but after seeing the schecter hellraisers for so long, it'd be a lil more fresh to scoop a natchy


----------



## cip 123

Wait I just saw the title? FFDP, like Five Finger Death Punch? They own BC?

I suppose that explains the awful abalone tiger inlay on the shredzilla, that was originally on Zoltan's sig


----------



## manu80

1500 for korean ? F...k that !


----------



## exo

Same basic price pointing as upcoming WMI made Shecter stuff, if I’m reading the tea leaves right......seems like we’re in a period of fairly steep price inflation for import guitars......


----------



## MaxOfMetal

exo said:


> Same basic price pointing as upcoming WMI made Shecter stuff, if I’m reading the tea leaves right......seems like we’re in a period of fairly steep price inflation for import guitars......



The wages and standards of living in South Korea has gone up significantly since the 90's. It's no longer the cheapest option.

The higher prices of MIK stuff has pushed up the price floor for Indonesian builds as well, and as long as there is still a stigma surrounding Chinese manufacturing, the price of MII will hold. 

It doesn't help that the contemporary guitarist thinks they need 15-piece figured roasted maple and carbon fiber necks, arched and beveled bodies made of solid flamed birch, frets made of diamond, and hardware made of magnesium and titanium hewn by expert Swiss watchmakers or else it's a piece of shit worth $20.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

manu80 said:


> 1500 for korean ? F...k that !



Wait till you see Schecter's lineup this year.

But yeah, y'all should have seen this coming.  Once Schecter started charging upwads of $1300 - $1700 for their MiK guitars a couple of years ago, it was only a matter of time before everyone else started to raise their prices. Hell even ESP did it with the Javier Reyes sig costing a buck and a half.


----------



## bloodjunkie

Is anyone able to briefly sum up 109 pages? I have no idea what's going on here.


----------



## Vyn

bloodjunkie said:


> Is anyone able to briefly sum up 109 pages? I have no idea what's going on here.



Someone spent a lot of money reviving the brand, that someone turned out to be FFDP. Lots of hype of people reliving their nostalgia, outrage over all the abalone and lots of folks going nuts over 8 string Floyds (plus a little bit of scale length discussion). Throw that in with a stalled website launch due to a shipping container accident and lots of shit posting, we'eve landed here.


----------



## gunshow86de

bloodjunkie said:


> Is anyone able to briefly sum up 109 pages? I have no idea what's going on here.



The Kyles in Five Finger Death Punch relaunched the BC Rich import line. They purchased all Schecter's leftover abalone from WMI. Usual arguing about specs ensued. People with good taste are still waiting for them to add Ironbirds to their site.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

In short, bc rich is back at what looks like Schecter quality and prices. Which is cool because love them or hate them, bc rich shapes are unique and sk guitars are pretty dang decent. I'm incredibly curious to see how these guitars are. It's been bumpy, but they seem to be on track now.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Vyn said:


> Someone spent a lot of money reviving the brand, that someone turned out to be FFDP. Lots of hype of people reliving their nostalgia, outrage over all the abalone and lots of folks going nuts over 8 string Floyds (plus a little bit of scale length discussion). Throw that in with a stalled website launch due to a shipping container accident and lots of shit posting, we'eve landed here.




And i would add there is outrage from the ironbird mob aswell.


----------



## Randy

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> And i would add there is outrage from the ironbird mob aswell.



No idea what they're mad about. First there was no Ironbird, then there was a one off but it was the new design. Then they posted a short run that's the old design, but nobody likes the headstock. Also it's still just a short run. But wait, BCR Instagram announces full launch of Ironbird line. But it's not on the website.

Does nothing satisfy you?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Randy said:


> No idea what they're mad about. First there was no Ironbird, then there was a one off but it was the new design. Then they posted a short run that's the old design, but nobody likes the headstock. Also it's still just a short run. But wait, BCR Instagram announces full launch of Ironbird line. But it's not on the website.
> 
> Does nothing satisfy you?




I mean, I am satisfied! New brand coming into play for me in terms of purchasing power. If they come out with an ironbird cool. If they don't oh well. I like my S style guitars (I know I am such a boomer) so the shredzillas and such look very interesting to me. Never played an extreme shape in my life so I don't really know how an ironbird would fit me.

I have switched to playing in the classical position, but I dunno


----------



## kisielk

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I know that the fishmans are finger lickin good so you cant go wrong with those
> 
> Dont know much about dimarzio so... yeah


I've got the 6-string version of the DActivator-X in an Ibanez... it's an incredibly hot pickup. Sounds pretty good for what it does, but it's got a really compressed feel and isn't exactly versatile. I definitely prefer the Fishman pickups.


----------



## MrWulf

It wouldn't be sevenstring without the whining and entitlement that a multi million dollar company needs to kowtow to a bunch of posters that wont be able to buy what they "want" anytime soon.


----------



## Randy

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean, I am satisfied! New brand coming into play for me in terms of purchasing power. If they come out with an ironbird cool. If they don't oh well. I like my S style guitars (I know I am such a boomer) so the shredzillas and such look very interesting to me. Never played an extreme shape in my life so I don't really know how an ironbird would fit me.
> 
> I have switched to playing in the classical position, but I dunno



For the record I meant the Ironbird mob, not you.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Randy said:


> For the record I meant the Ironbird mob, not you.




Well yeah. Im just sprinklin my own thoughts.

Although you must agree that the headstock on the limited run from chondro is atrocious. Plus the ironbird crowd hasnt had a proper ib in like what a decade? Maybe more? They are passionate about them


----------



## efiltsohg

MaxOfMetal said:


> The wages and standards of living in South Korea has gone up significantly since the 90's. It's no longer the cheapest option.
> 
> The higher prices of MIK stuff has pushed up the price floor for Indonesian builds as well, and as long as there is still a stigma surrounding Chinese manufacturing, the price of MII will hold.
> 
> It doesn't help that the contemporary guitarist thinks they need 15-piece figured roasted maple and carbon fiber necks, arched and beveled bodies made of solid flamed birch, frets made of diamond, and hardware made of magnesium and titanium hewn by expert Swiss watchmakers or else it's a piece of shit worth $20.



I bought a new 2018 model MIK guitar for $700 CAD (just over $500 US), 1500 is definitely insane price

there are plenty of USA guitars for less than that


----------



## mitou

kisielk said:


> I've got the 6-string version of the DActivator-X in an Ibanez... it's an incredibly hot pickup. Sounds pretty good for what it does, but it's got a really compressed feel and isn't exactly versatile. I definitely prefer the Fishman pickups.



I don't know why the site lists the bridge pickup as being the D-Activator X when it's clearly not, at least not in the pics. Doesn't have the dual blade construction. The pickup they're using is probably just the regular D-Activator, which is one of the better DiMarzios.


----------



## CapinCripes

I have zero problem with the ironbird headstock as my favorite bc rich headstock is this one that is only slightly different.












Dudewithstuff2010093007



__ CapinCripes
__ Nov 25, 2019



favorite bc headstock




My problem is that im not in the market for MIK guitars. But for people like me they have the custom shop so that's really not a mark against the re-launch. The narrow nut widths and slightly flatter radius on all models than vintage bc rich is a bit strange, and I would like to see a 1 11/16 nut, but I can understand going with market trends. Schecter after all is one of the brands to emulate and they have extremely (by my standards) narrow nuts with 41.3mm r2 nuts being standard (my preference isthe ~ 43mm r3). Honestly besides the weird icky-ness of them being owned by FFDP the only real complaint for the average person looking for a MIK mid range guitar is the amount of abalone.


----------



## Hollowway

efiltsohg said:


> I bought a new 2018 model MIK guitar for $700 CAD (just over $500 US), 1500 is definitely insane price
> 
> there are plenty of USA guitars for less than that



Speaking from the Floyd 8 crew, we’re just happy someone noticed us. A short-ish scale length $1000 Korean guitar with $700 worth of abalone is worth stomaching just to have a (third) Floyd 8 option. I know I can get nearly the same thing in the Schecter Hellraiser, but I like the look of the BCR abalone atrocity over the Schecter abalone atrocity.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

CapinCripes said:


> I have zero problem with the ironbird headstock as my favorite bc rich headstock is this one that is only slightly different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dudewithstuff2010093007
> 
> 
> 
> __ CapinCripes
> __ Nov 25, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> favorite bc headstock


For some reason, that makes my neck hurt. Looks like someone with a neck kink that it pulling their head to one side and causing immense pain.


----------



## Science_Penguin

Spaced Out Ace said:


> For some reason, that makes my neck hurt. Looks like someone with a neck kink that it pulling their head to one side and causing immense pain.



I don't think I've ever read a better description of why some angled headstock designs just plain don't work.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

efiltsohg said:


> I bought a new 2018 model MIK guitar for $700 CAD (just over $500 US), 1500 is definitely insane price
> 
> there are plenty of USA guitars for less than that



There will always be exceptions, a lot will depend on how much margin a brand is willing to toss out to make a sale. 

What's going to push the 2020 year instruments so much higher is the consolidation going on with OEMs.


----------



## manu80

i really dont get the price for MIK guitar. Japanese maybe but Korean for 1500 euros/ dollars? like the recent schecters or more expensive Strandberg? no thanks. Korea has upped their game, for sure but they're still far from japanese level yet.


----------



## Cynicanal

manu80 said:


> Korea has upped their game, for sure but they're still far from japanese level yet.


Hard disagree -- the WMI South Korea guitars I've played in the last two years have been on par with ESP E-II or Ibanez Prestige stuff, and better than MIJ-era Jackson Pros, in terms of build quality. The quality has outpaced the cachet greatly, which is going to be a problem in terms of actually selling instruments, but but in terms of just "price/quality", $1500 for a SK guitar with high-end specs seems roughly on point. 1500 _Euros_ would be a bit out of line, but that's a lot more than $1500.

(As global industrialization continues to improve, life is going to get really rough for kids buying their first guitar. It'll be great for most of us on this forum -- we'll have a wider selection than ever of really nice stuff -- but selection at the entry level is going to quickly become "First Act and other Wal-Mart specials". It's enough to make one nostalgic for the days when Ibby Gios were Indonesian...)


----------



## narad

Cynicanal said:


> Hard disagree -- the WMI South Korea guitars I've played in the last two years have been on par with ESP E-II or Ibanez Prestige stuff, and better than MIJ-era Jackson Pros, in terms of build quality. The quality has outpaced the cachet greatly, which is going to be a problem in terms of actually selling instruments, but but in terms of just "price/quality", $1500 for a SK guitar with high-end specs seems roughly on point. 1500 _Euros_ would be a bit out of line, but that's a lot more than $1500.
> 
> (As global industrialization continues to improve, life is going to get really rough for kids buying their first guitar. It'll be great for most of us on this forum -- we'll have a wider selection than ever of really nice stuff -- but selection at the entry level is going to quickly become "First Act and other Wal-Mart specials". It's enough to make one nostalgic for the days when Ibby Gios were Indonesian...)



If that were ever the case, kids buying their first guitars could just turn to the massive and then-devalued used guitar market. If anything, I feel the opposite: higher quality guitars available at lower prices than ever before. The $500-1k market gives you a lot these days.


----------



## Cynicanal

$500 is over twice what I spent on my first guitar as a poor college student 

The used market is a good point, but then you need someone who knows guitars to help you avoid the stuff that's been treated badly or is otherwise on its last legs (a first-time buyer isn't likely going to know how to recognize fretwear, for instance).


----------



## MaxOfMetal

manu80 said:


> i really dont get the price for MIK guitar. Japanese maybe but Korean for 1500 euros/ dollars? like the recent schecters or more expensive Strandberg? no thanks. Korea has upped their game, for sure but they're still far from japanese level yet.



The only difference between the two, Japan and South Korea, is the amount the brand wants to pay for a higher reject/rework rate. 

The big SK guitar factories have been at it long enough that there is nothing in their process that would impede quality.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Just a reminder that SK isn't some third world country or on a level of China/Indo when it comes to pay wages.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Just a reminder that SK isn't some third world country or on a level of China/Indo when it comes to pay wages.



Which is why the large guitar builders are moving away from SK. Their whole business model is predicated on super cheap labor.


----------



## Merrekof

I get the feeling we are getting a lot more qaulity guitars these days and prices increase with that. After owning a few Japanese, SK and Indo Ibbies, I found that the difference in quality is minimal. Mind you, I am an amature player and bought them all used. 
Also, China has upped their game since I started playing over 15 years ago. A 50$ guitar is still a pile of noisy shit but a 250$ guitar is a whole lot better than it was 15 years ago. 
There is also that new business model that Solar and Ormsby use. That business model lowers production costs so the brand can a)make more money or b)build better quality for a relatively low price. Beginners have it better now. The used market has lots of trash and gems, all are "cheap" on the used market. And the new 250$ guitars are better than ever imo.


----------



## A-Branger

also remember guys the country of origin doesnt dictate the whole price of the guitar. Just because its from SK doesnt mean the guitar HAS to be at X price only.

the factories can build you a 200$ guitar and also a 2000$ one. ITs up to the brand to decide how much is much and where to draw the line so they dont compete with themselfs with either their custom shops or other countries of manufacturing in terms of specs and build.

you dont go to WMI and say "build me a guitar", and they say "cool its 50$ thank you sir".... the more specs you chose the higher the price, this from hardware used, main brand/factory generic, quality of the wood supplied, woods used, contruction method, finishes, QC, materials, ect ect

Think about it like a Kiesel menu choice but on steroids. You can pic an alder body with a solid color paint job and all the standard specs and get an amazing valued Kiesel...... or you can pic all the fanciest body wood, tops, and neck laminates plus custom paint jobs, special thir party branded hardware and one-off spec builds and then finish with an "overpriced" Kiesel.

just because your LTD400 series costed you 500$ doesnt mean that everything coming from the same factory has to cost the same/similar.... thats not how things work


----------



## Adieu

A-Branger said:


> also remember guys the country of origin doesnt dictate the whole price of the guitar. Just because its from SK doesnt mean the guitar HAS to be at X price only.
> 
> the factories can build you a 200$ guitar and also a 2000$ one. ITs up to the brand to decide how much is much and where to draw the line so they dont compete with themselfs with either their custom shops or other countries of manufacturing in terms of specs and build.
> 
> you dont go to WMI and say "build me a guitar", and they say "cool its 50$ thank you sir".... the more specs you chose the higher the price, this from hardware used, main brand/factory generic, quality of the wood supplied, woods used, contruction method, finishes, QC, materials, ect ect
> 
> Think about it like a Kiesel menu choice but on steroids. You can pic an alder body with a solid color paint job and all the standard specs and get an amazing valued Kiesel...... or you can pic all the fanciest body wood, tops, and neck laminates plus custom paint jobs, special thir party branded hardware and one-off spec builds and then finish with an "overpriced" Kiesel.
> 
> just because your LTD400 series costed you 500$ doesnt mean that everything coming from the same factory has to cost the same/similar.... thats not how things work



And with "junior" brands like LTD, Squier, and Epiphone, some budget stuff may exist in a non-profit or even loss-leader capacity to help them later sell you the big $$$ stuff


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> Which is why the large guitar builders are moving away from SK. Their whole business model is predicated on super cheap labor.



Which, to me, is the most valid measurement to the "death of the guitar industry" thread somebody made a few weeks back and likely got passed by. There's less and less corners of this planet that you can go to and get the kind of labor to quality ratio that made sub-$1000 name brand guitars possible.


----------



## Descent

Randy said:


> Which, to me, is the most valid measurement to the "death of the guitar industry" thread somebody made a few weeks back and likely got passed by. There's less and less corners of this planet that you can go to and get the kind of labor to quality ratio that made sub-$1000 name brand guitars possible.


Oh come on, there's a huge profit margin on guitars. There's always Africa to go to after this. $1000 goes a long way in quite a few parts of the world. Honestly, if it weren't for the crazy government taxes on businesses most of Europe and USA can make a $600 guitar on a profit. Some of the low end USA Gibsons are about $800, although I don't know how much of that guitar is USA made.


----------



## Randy

Descent said:


> Oh come on, there's a huge profit margin on guitars. There's always Africa to go to after this. $1000 goes a long way in quite a few parts of the world. Honestly, if it weren't for the crazy government taxes on businesses most of Europe and USA can make a $600 guitar on a profit. Some of the low end USA Gibsons are about $800, although I don't know how much of that guitar is USA made.



Well, take my original comment with a grain of salt but you gotta keep in mind most of these brands are still based in the US and Japan, where they're paying taxes on those profits regardless of where they're manufactured, as well as the rest of the apparatus necessary to do business (designers, sales, executives, QC, customer support, etc.), plus the fact those are RETAIL prices, so that's after the dealer has already gotten their piece.

So it's not what "$1000 gets you in a few parts of the world", it's what ~$600-$700 (dealer price) gets you in the US or Japan after you've paid to build the guitar and paid everybody necessary to make it, and deliver it to market. And currently, yeah, they're not hurting for money but the point is that Eastern Asia as an outlet to bring the labor part of expenses down to near zero is decreasingly becoming an option.

Like I said, take me comment with a grain of salt, I don't think the guitar business is going out anytime soon but you look at the "go to" factories and countries of origin and the fact the prices are going up and up and up for the same guitars we were paying a lot less for years ago, and the writing is on the wall. You're right, there are still places they can go for dirt cheap labor but my point is, we've had 30+ years where that place was the Far East and that's decreasingly in play.


----------



## Descent

Nah, prices just factor inflation, or mostly inflation. They don't want to tell you, but both EU and US economies are facing huge inflation, and the dollar and euro are going to sh*t. 

Just look at the housing market, that reflects exactly how much of an inflation you're getting.


----------



## efiltsohg

A-Branger said:


> also remember guys the country of origin doesnt dictate the whole price of the guitar. Just because its from SK doesnt mean the guitar HAS to be at X price only.
> 
> the factories can build you a 200$ guitar and also a 2000$ one. ITs up to the brand to decide how much is much and where to draw the line so they dont compete with themselfs with either their custom shops or other countries of manufacturing in terms of specs and build.
> 
> you dont go to WMI and say "build me a guitar", and they say "cool its 50$ thank you sir".... the more specs you chose the higher the price, this from hardware used, main brand/factory generic, quality of the wood supplied, woods used, contruction method, finishes, QC, materials, ect ect
> 
> Think about it like a Kiesel menu choice but on steroids. You can pic an alder body with a solid color paint job and all the standard specs and get an amazing valued Kiesel...... or you can pic all the fanciest body wood, tops, and neck laminates plus custom paint jobs, special thir party branded hardware and one-off spec builds and then finish with an "overpriced" Kiesel.
> 
> just because your LTD400 series costed you 500$ doesnt mean that everything coming from the same factory has to cost the same/similar.... thats not how things work



It's a nice thought but my MIK guitar has all brand name hardware, locking tuners, bone nut etc. I just don't see where the extra $1000+ is coming from, a fancy finish? yawn


----------



## spudmunkey

There are 3 parts of a guitar: materials, labor. Just because something has name brand plays, doesn't mean they spend a lot of time(=money) or more-skilled labor on it. You can get a guitat slapped together that just looks good on paper (a "spec queen") that is still a not- great guitar.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Merrekof said:


> I get the feeling we are getting a lot more qaulity guitars these days and prices increase with that. After owning a few Japanese, SK and Indo Ibbies, I found that the difference in quality is minimal. Mind you, I am an amature player and bought them all used.
> Also, China has upped their game since I started playing over 15 years ago. A 50$ guitar is still a pile of noisy shit but a 250$ guitar is a whole lot better than it was 15 years ago.
> There is also that new business model that Solar and Ormsby use. That business model lowers production costs so the brand can a)make more money or b)build better quality for a relatively low price. Beginners have it better now. The used market has lots of trash and gems, all are "cheap" on the used market. And the new 250$ guitars are better than ever imo.



I have an Indo Ibby. It can not hold its own against a MIK Agile.


----------



## bloodjunkie

Okay thanks to the 3 users at the bottom of page 109 for the summary!

I feel like all that really needs to happen is a resurrection of the 80s NJ line with no-frils classic shapes and kahlers, how can you lose? So many iconic/classic metal bands have used and continue to use them.

On a different note, I had my eye on a Guy Marchais sig for a long time and then all of the sudden it completely disappeared online and I can't find a single one for sale now. I know that Guy is sick which sucks but it was strange how the guitar just disappeared almost overnight, did anyone ever try one out?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

manu80 said:


> i really dont get the price for MIK guitar. Japanese maybe but Korean for 1500 euros/ dollars? like the recent schecters or more expensive Strandberg? no thanks. Korea has upped their game, for sure but they're still far from japanese level yet.




Nah man WMI is clean. They are on par with japan.




HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Just a reminder that SK isn't some third world country or on a level of China/Indo when it comes to pay wages.



Agreed. Every indo Jackson and the own


----------



## Viginez

bloodjunkie said:


> I feel like all that really needs to happen is a resurrection of the 80s NJ line with no-frils classic shapes and kahlers, how can you lose? So many iconic/classic metal bands have used and continue to use them.


nah...the new strategiy is clearly "follow the hype"...or..."bc rich goes djent"...even classic shapes are being renamed, no wonder kerry wanted none of it. it is what it is. it's a new company.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Viginez said:


> nah...the new strategiy is clearly "follow the hype"...or..."bc rich goes djent"...even classic shapes are being renamed, no wonder kerry wanted none of it. it is what it is. it's a new company.




I mean it is great.

Plus tbh kerry really isnt that fantastic of a player


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean it is great.
> 
> Plus tbh kerry really isnt that fantastic of a player



Plus we're gonna pretend the dude who's MO was "DOUCHEBAG TRIBAL ON EERRRTHANG" was a man of taste.


----------



## aesthyrian

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Nah man WMI is clean. They are on par with japan.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Plus we're gonna pretend the dude who's MO was "DOUCHEBAG TRIBAL ON EERRRTHANG" was a man of taste.




Bro KFK was nu metal before it was a thang yo


----------



## Randy

Descent said:


> Nah, prices just factor inflation, or mostly inflation. They don't want to tell you, but both EU and US economies are facing huge inflation, and the dollar and euro are going to sh*t.
> 
> Just look at the housing market, that reflects exactly how much of an inflation you're getting.



So you think these companies are paying the same per guitar as they were when the guitars were half the price? Honest question.


----------



## Rosal76

bloodjunkie said:


> On a different note, I had my eye on a Guy Marchais sig for a long time and then all of the sudden it completely disappeared online and I can't find a single one for sale now. I know that Guy is sick which sucks but it was strange how the guitar just disappeared almost overnight, did anyone ever try one out?



I never got to try one but someone on the B.C. Rich unofficial forum (closed down) did. If I remember, he saw it at a NAMM show and messed with it. I think he was a huge fan of guitars with Kahler tremolos and that's why he wanted to play it. He said it was a decent playing guitar and I don't believe he said anything negative about it.


----------



## dhgrind

Bc rich official instagram showcasing an abalone covered production ironbird. Like can they not take a fucking hint?


----------



## spudmunkey

dhgrind said:


> Bc rich official instagram showcasing an abalone covered production ironbird. Like can they not take a fucking hint?



Sales speak louder than internet rage.

It's also the specific model line that has those upgrades. I assume there will be a "legacy" version without it.


----------



## dhgrind

spudmunkey said:


> Sales speak louder than internet rage.



have they sold anything yet?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> Sales speak louder than internet rage.



Single sample data isn't exactly a good way to judge that. 

Though, what sales? Outside some protos, is much of anything really in the wild, and is it selling?


----------



## spudmunkey

No, but I'm saying in the end, it's what matters...and while it's not the favorite for a lot if loud people here...lots of people also still like it


----------



## mlp187

spudmunkey said:


> No, but I'm saying in the end, it's what matters...and while it's not the favorite for a lot if loud people here...lots of people also still like it


Count me in. Fucking love me some abalone. I'll probably post that a fourth time in this thread in a few weeks, just so everyone is aware. 
I also like the cybertruck, so... Yeah.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> No, but I'm saying in the end, it's what matters...and while it's not the favorite for a lot if loud people here...lots of people also still like it



We've seen at least three big brands move away from abalone, Schecter, ESP/LTD, and Ibanez, which I think is significant. 

That said, perhaps there is a void in the market now and BCR is trying specifically to capture it.


----------



## SandyRavage

The moment I saw the abalone Ironbird I realized I was being trolled.... love the shape and have a soft spot for the brand but for f*cks Sake...Jackson warrior looking awfully enticing right meow.

Holding onto a hope but IMO they are blowing it.


----------



## Hollowway

dhgrind said:


> Bc rich official instagram showcasing an abalone covered production ironbird. Like can they not take a fucking hint?


Where did you see that? I’m looking at their IG page and can’t find it.


----------



## SandyRavage

Hollowway said:


> Where did you see that? I’m looking at their IG page and can’t find it.


Stories....


----------



## zw470

I've been lurking for 10+ years and I just wanted to say that abalone looks awful.


----------



## Randy




----------



## MaxOfMetal

Those color options.


----------



## Cynicanal

What do you have against trans red? It's the coolest color possible for a guitar!


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Cynicanal said:


> What do you have against trans red? It's the coolest color possible for a guitar!



or trans black. Can't go wrong with those two.




But ffs, can BCR just do an ironbird like this? Big thick waves in the quilt, a nice trans black quilt, single pup and vol, floyd, ebony board, 24 frets, 25.5" scale, and *no abalone*. I will put a down payment on that right now if they start producing that


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Merrekof

Whoa coloured hardware? That's something new. Not digging the orange but it could complement the rest of the guitar. That is a good gamble imo.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75089
> 
> View attachment 75090


----------



## Adieu

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75089
> 
> View attachment 75090



Looks like a Chinese pocket knife

Then again, I really LIKE my Chinese pocket knife... but that probably has a lot to do with the whole "it cost $10 yet it works just fine" thing


----------



## MrWulf

honestly gives me a trans red Ironbird with abalone binding. I'll buy it if only to piss off the Ironbird traditionalists AND fulfill my inner 22's fascination of extreme shapes, abalone and transparent colors.


----------



## couverdure

P-Rails are a surprising choice for something like a Mockingbird. Gotta utilize the 20 toggles BCR is known for somehow.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> or trans black. Can't go wrong with those two.
> 
> View attachment 75088
> 
> 
> But ffs, can BCR just do an ironbird like this? Big thick waves in the quilt, a nice trans black quilt, single pup and vol, floyd, ebony board, 24 frets, 25.5" scale, and *no abalone*. I will put a down payment on that right now if they start producing that



They WILL do it.....at the custom shop. Put your down payment on that and they'll get right on it


----------



## Chokey Chicken

All they gotta do is adhere to this laundry list of specs! Nbd.

I'm still waiting for Gibson to release a passive route 7 string 26.5" scale explorer with no pickguard, but I guess they just don't want my money.


----------



## Trainwreck

Music Farm has some new BCR's for sale now. The spalted maple Stealth looks amazing. To bad the nut width is too narrow for my liking.


----------



## Edika

Chokey Chicken said:


> All they gotta do is adhere to this laundry list of specs! Nbd.
> 
> I'm still waiting for Gibson to release a passive route 7 string 26.5" scale explorer with no pickguard, but I guess they just don't want my money.



That would actually be exquisite!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

For 1400-1600 you get can just get a prestige ibanez or two used prestige ibanez. Pass


----------



## Merrekof

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> For 1400-1600 you get can just get a prestige ibanez or two used prestige ibanez. Pass


But do those Prestiges have all that beautiful abalone? I think not!

Joking aside, we're on the same boat..


----------



## Viginez

an ironbird with abalone
now i've seen it all


----------



## Adieu

Viginez said:


> an ironbird with abalone
> now i've seen it all



IronBird + abalone = ??? Peacock maybe



...actually, no. They should call it the MeeCock


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Viginez said:


> an ironbird with abalone
> now i've seen it all



And i want it to go away....

Also an Orange Quad?!? Why not a red kahler


----------



## dhgrind

It was on their story timeline yesterday

https://ibb.co/2PQdG9m

screenshot from my phone


----------



## dhgrind

Honestly abalone just makes guitars look trashy and cheap like a trailer trash white boy addicted to monster energy. Crisp lines and minimal bullshit makes for a swift killing riff machine.


----------



## jephjacques

Adieu said:


> IronBird + abalone = ??? Peacock maybe
> 
> 
> 
> ...actually, no. They should call it the MeeCock


ironbaloney


----------



## Trainwreck

Why all the hate on the abalone ? Is it out of fashion now? I dig it but I'll admit I only have one guitar with it on it.


----------



## jephjacques

It just got way overused on budget guitars for a few years, so now people associate it with poor quality and/or tackiness.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

jephjacques said:


> It just got way overused on budget guitars for a few years, so now people associate it with poor quality and/or tackiness.



I never saw it on budget guitars. Mostly on the mid-higher-end LTDs and Schecters. It was just the oversaturation of it since ESP used it on literally ALL of their 1000-series LTDs and Schecter flooded their Hellraiser series with it.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Trainwreck said:


> Why all the hate on the abalone ? Is it out of fashion now? I dig it but I'll admit I only have one guitar with it on it.



Because on a guitar forum...people nitpick small things on guitars they can't afford/weren't buying anyways as the sole reason they won't buy the guitar


----------



## spudmunkey

"Pointy elbows: wouldn't bang" syndrome?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> They WILL do it.....at the custom shop. Put your down payment on that and they'll get right on it




a down payment on that would be like 2k brother.



Trainwreck said:


> Music Farm has some new BCR's for sale now. The spalted maple Stealth looks amazing. To bad the nut width is too narrow for my liking.



That one stealth is hawt. If it had a floyd and 25.5" I'd probably buy it maybe.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> a down payment on that would be like 2k brother.


True....but that's the price you pay for a custom guitar with all your specs


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> True....but that's the price you pay for a custom guitar with all your specs



True, but a lot of my demands is what a lot of other people want.

Plus i wouldnt want to pay custom to escape a abalone ridden ironbird


----------



## wedge_destroyer

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> That one stealth is hawt. If it had a floyd and 25.5" I'd probably buy it maybe.



Still flip flopping around in my mind if i want to grab one and throwing a kahler it.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

wedge_destroyer said:


> Still flip flopping around in my mind if i want to grab one and throwing a kahler it.



Same here. The temptation is killing me. I almost was considering getting the avocado burst shredzillla zoltan sig at the music farm, but snapped out of it.


Plus the black stealth is hawt, but again the scale is just a deal breaker for me.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> True, but a lot of my demands is what a lot of other people want.
> 
> Plus i wouldnt want to pay custom to escape a abalone ridden ironbird


 
I think lots of companies are aware..but it's just not worth it for them to give everyone the guitar of their dreams just because....OR they're waiting to release it.

I figure...if a model comes out that I truly love, I'd buy what they have and hope they release exactly what I want. If they don't? Then I'd buy a custom version. Sure it's expensive as hell but if it's really what I want then it's worth it.

I love Dean Modifiers so much I broke my long standing rule of buying a guitar with a trem..because I loved the model so much I was willing to deal with it. I ended up liking it. If Dean releases a new Modifier this year? I'm buying it. I don't care if it has a trem...I don't care if it's an ugly color, etc. All that can be fixed and I don't mind doing it because it's the guitar I truly want.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I think lots of companies are aware..but it's just not worth it for them to give everyone the guitar of their dreams just because....OR they're waiting to release it.
> 
> I figure...if a model comes out that I truly love, I'd buy what they have and hope they release exactly what I want. If they don't? Then I'd buy a custom version. Sure it's expensive as hell but if it's really what I want then it's worth it.
> 
> I love Dean Modifiers so much I broke my long standing rule of buying a guitar with a trem..because I loved the model so much I was willing to deal with it. I ended up liking it. If Dean releases a new Modifier this year? I'm buying it. I don't care if it has a trem...I don't care if it's an ugly color, etc. All that can be fixed and I don't mind doing it because it's the guitar I truly want.



I mean yeah. I guess i just cant grasp that since im 17 and saving up 4k on a custom is just insane to me.


----------



## Merrekof

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I never saw it on budget guitars. Mostly on the mid-higher-end LTDs and Schecters. It was just the oversaturation of it since ESP used it on literally ALL of their 1000-series LTDs and Schecter flooded their Hellraiser series with it.



People tend to forget that the BC Rich NJ deluxe series from around 10 years ago also had lots of abalone binding. So it 's not exactly like new BCR is copying other brands with that. 



JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean yeah. I guess i just cant grasp that since im 17 and saving up 4k on a custom is just insane to me.



I'm 31 and saving 4k for a custom is also insane for me. Most I spent on a guitar was 1900€ and thought that was a lot of money. I'm not saying it isn't worth it but I just can't spend 4k on a guitar.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Merrekof said:


> I'm 31 and saving 4k for a custom is also insane for me. Most I spent on a guitar was 1900€ and thought that was a lot of money. I'm not saying it isn't worth it but I just can't spend 4k on a guitar.



Most people can't..however the option is there if people want it. Or people can get a used guitar and mod it to their specs. There are options out there.

I dunno. It always seems like guitar players are never happy because they want everything WITH a small price tag and that's just not how it goes. Ya get as close as your wallet will allow in most cases


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> or trans black. Can't go wrong with those two.
> 
> View attachment 75088
> 
> 
> But ffs, can BCR just do an ironbird like this? Big thick waves in the quilt, a nice trans black quilt, single pup and vol, floyd, ebony board, 24 frets, 25.5" scale, and *no abalone*. I will put a down payment on that right now if they start producing that


That dude gnashing and grinding his teeth while playing makes my gums ache.


----------



## Merrekof

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Most people can't..however the option is there if people want it. Or people can get a used guitar and mod it to their specs. There are options out there.
> 
> I dunno. It always seems like guitar players are never happy because they want everything WITH a small price tag and that's just not how it goes. Ya get as close as your wallet will allow in most cases


I know. That's why I bought an RG7421 and a 7 string Ibanez FR body blank and modded it myself. It ain't a piece of art but I'm still proud of that guitar. There is just no Ibanez FR7 available here unless I go full custom. Ormsby does have a very nice supertele 7 available in a store not far from my home ,(that dark grey one from run 5 I think) but that is 1600€. More than I can afford and/or spend right now. If I were younger and didn't have bills to pay I might have bought that one already.


----------



## narad

Spaced Out Ace said:


> That dude gnashing and grinding his teeth while playing makes my gums ache.



4/5 dentists recommend PRS.

For real though, what's he playing in that clip? Is that a custom shop model or one of the older production lineup?


----------



## dhgrind

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Because on a guitar forum...people nitpick small things on guitars they can't afford/weren't buying anyways as the sole reason they won't buy the guitar



abalone is tacky the end. It’s not that I can’t afford the guitar it’s that I’m not going to buy it covered in abalone. I had an esp m-1000 deluxe, got it in a trade because it was a beast of a rip stick. But it was hideous and I flipped it because of the abalone.

this whole “you must not like it cause you’re poor and can’t afford it” trend is starting to sound awfully tired.

If you like abalone just admit you’re tacky. You like tribal tattoos, monster energy, ffdp and being classist against poor people.


----------



## Trainwreck

I like abalone and maybe that makes me tacky but I sure know I don't like tribal tattoos, FFDP, and energy drinks. I am however a classist who thinks abalone classes up a guitar instead plain old classless binding. My opinion, yours may vary.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

dhgrind said:


> abalone is tacky the end. It’s not that I can’t afford the guitar it’s that I’m not going to buy it covered in abalone. I had an esp m-1000 deluxe, got it in a trade because it was a beast of a rip stick. But it was hideous and I flipped it because of the abalone.
> 
> this whole “you must not like it cause you’re poor and can’t afford it” trend is starting to sound awfully tired.
> 
> If you like abalone just admit you’re tacky. You like tribal tattoos, monster energy, ffdp and being classist against poor people.



Meh. Personally I don't care for abalone at all but if a model guitar I loved came back and it had abalone? I'd buy it and figure out a way around it. Besides with my wealth I can have it removed or something.

Just stop being poor. *Dives into vault of gold coins and goes swimming*


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Yea, love it or hate it, it is what it is, if your going to buy it buy one, or dont. For some, like myself too much abalone is a dealbreaker. Some people are proactive about and some just want to complain.

For my part I cant/wont pull the trigger on an Abalonebird, I can however price some curly maple billets.....


----------



## Vostre Roy

I don't personally think that abalone would be a deal breaker on its own if I ever end up getting an Ironbird, I'd say it boils down to how much of it is present on the instrument and how it bonds with the overall look. I use to own an Hellraiser C-7 that had some abalone binding and although I preferred the look of my abalone-less 006 Elite, it wasn't too much to screw the look as an whole.

That being said, I'd prefer if they issue a Legacy model that looks more like the 80's BC Rich, I am waiting to see what the actual lineup and specs will be on it before making judgement.


----------



## jephjacques

Abalone vs anti-abalone

the class war has come to SSO


----------



## Seabeast2000

jephjacques said:


> Abalone vs anti-abalone
> 
> the class war has come to SSO



https://www.facebook.com/abalonewarsaustralia/


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Abalone inlays look cool AF


----------



## CapinCripes

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Abalone inlays look cool AF


They do in fact, and i quite like abalone fingerboard inlays, but they (like MOP) should stay as fingerboard inlays not as body binding.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

CapinCripes said:


> They do in fact, and i quite like abalone fingerboard inlays, but they (like MOP) should stay as fingerboard inlays not as body binding.



I agree. I don't mind abalone, but I REALLY prefer it when it's restricted to just inlays.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

It's just a material, it's use can be striking and tasteful or ugly and dated, and of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

Personally, because I know everyone cares so much, I think it looks bad on otherwise "normal" looking guitars, but when used thematically, it can be really cool. 

This is just so over the top and ridiculous it would be worse without the abalone:


----------



## wedge_destroyer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I agree. I don't mind abalone, but I REALLY prefer it when it's restricted to just inlays.



I can even let it slide on a bound neck, provided the board is totally blank and the body untouched.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's just a material, it's use can be striking and tasteful or ugly and dated, and of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> Personally, because I know everyone cares so much, I think it looks bad on otherwise "normal" looking guitars, but when used thematically, it can be really cool.
> 
> This is just so over the top and ridiculous it would be worse without the abalone:



I believe the key for many is that it is TASTEFULLY applied, and adds to the overall aesthetic. However when it does not match the overall aesthetic it comes off as gaudy, and almost tasteless.

Unfortunately for those who dont care for abalone it was ubiquitous on many guitars for a while, and seemed to fade for awhile so those that dislike/hate/tired of it, when seeing it reappear are likely to respond with: WTF? No.

You are 100% correct that guitar would look flat wrong with out it as would most other Minariks.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's just a material, it's use can be striking and tasteful or ugly and dated, and of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> Personally, because I know everyone cares so much, I think it looks bad on otherwise "normal" looking guitars, but when used thematically, it can be really cool.
> 
> This is just so over the top and ridiculous it would be worse without the abalone:



Maybe I'm in the minority, but i kind of like the body. The inlay is nauseating, and I'm not a fan of the headstock aesthetics, but I like the abalone in the body.


----------



## spudmunkey

So what you are saying is that there's a difference between:





and...


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Spaced Out Ace said:


> That dude gnashing and grinding his teeth while playing makes my gums ache.



Mfer plays with passion.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Hollowway

Not to be too pedantic about this, but we’re really talking about the abalone purfling, not the binding, correct? I’m assuming that the binding on all these is just white/ivory plastic. (And, I generally don’t like purfling of ANY kind, because it’s just too ornate for me.)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Not to be too pedantic about this, but we’re really talking about the abalone purfling, not the binding, correct? I’m assuming that the binding on all these is just white/ivory plastic. (And, I generally don’t like purfling of ANY kind, because it’s just too ornate for me.)



Yeah, purfling.




You don't really see abalone as actual binding, it's too thin, so it's placed on the facing sandwiched between plastic or fiber binding stripe.


----------



## zappatton2

Does anyone know what the wiring is on this one? It looks like a standard supreme circuit, but I'm wondering if the series/parallel switches are actually 3-way coil selection switches, due to the p-rails. Love the colours BTW!


----------



## zappatton2

Meant to quote what I was talking about;


spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75121
> View attachment 75122


----------



## Spicypickles

IRL photos of the abalone always look less obvious/way better than their suped up website photos.


----------



## Seabeast2000

So I don't know much about metal finishing but I assume that's a powder-baked enamel on those orange bits then?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

The906 said:


> So I don't know much about metal finishing but I assume that's a powder-baked enamel on those orange bits then?



Looks more like anodized titanium in some pictures, to me.


----------



## Seabeast2000

MaxOfMetal said:


> Looks more like anodized titanium in some pictures, to me.



Thanks, interesting if so.


----------



## xzacx

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75121
> View attachment 75122


I kind of like this idea and think the right colors on the right guitars with the right finishes could be pretty cool, but this probably isn’t one of those combos. Love that is has P-Rails though.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> Looks more like anodized titanium in some pictures, to me.


 
Not aluminum?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> Not aluminum?



Could be, I just have more experience with titanium.


----------



## efiltsohg

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75121
> View attachment 75122



minus the p-rails I like this one a lot


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## ExplorerMike

They must be reading this read with point number 6 LOL!


----------



## dhgrind

I mean at the very least just make the batch with abalone 1/4 or less than the rest of the batch without it. Y’all can have your abalone everything guitars with abalone binding, fretboards, abalone strings and abalone wound pickups on abalone bobbins. Just let me opt out and get my plain rip stick in 25.5 inch scale.


----------



## Bdtunn

The more I look at the stealths the more my GAS rises! Near perfect specs, well for my liking


----------



## Trainwreck

Sweet, no abalone.....oh wait


----------



## mlp187

dhgrind said:


> abalone is tacky the end. It’s not that I can’t afford the guitar it’s that I’m not going to buy it covered in abalone. I had an esp m-1000 deluxe, got it in a trade because it was a beast of a rip stick. But it was hideous and I flipped it because of the abalone.
> 
> this whole “you must not like it cause you’re poor and can’t afford it” trend is starting to sound awfully tired.
> 
> If you like abalone just admit you’re tacky. You like tribal tattoos, monster energy, ffdp and being classist against poor people.


I might be tacky, but non of these other things apply. Stop being classist against tacky people.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## dhgrind

Being against tackiness isn’t classist. Being against poor people is.


----------



## spudmunkey

Tackiness knows no financial bounds. Pleeeeenty of tacky rich people.


----------



## mlp187

Tacky is my social status. Economically, I'm like a solid bottom-middle class, and feel grateful to be here.

Bring me the abalone!


----------



## Adieu

mlp187 said:


> Tacky is my social status. Economically, I'm like a solid bottom-middle class, and feel grateful to be here.
> 
> Bring me the abalone!



Kyle, brah, izzat u???


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

mlp187 said:


> Tacky is my social status. Economically, I'm like a solid bottom-middle class, and feel grateful to be here.
> 
> Bring me the abalone!









Just fuckin make this BCR. I will put my money where my mouth is. Sold one of my guitars in anticipation for this shit.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

BC Rich is just gonna make a stealth and ironbird...completely out of abalone. It won't even be usable..just a chunk of abalone in the shape of the ironbird and stealth. Those will be the only ironbird and stealth models...because screw y'all


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ewwwww an ironbird or stealth with abalone


----------



## Anthony Corsino

Not my thing. Thoughts?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

yeah, the specs for most of them are not what most modern players want from what I've seen. kahlers, 8 strings with 26.5" scale= eww, abalone=  and the severe lack of ERG 7/8 string stealths/ironbirds is disheartening.


----------



## Zado

In 10 years they'll be making what ESP, Jackson, Schecter and Ibanez are selling now. Just wait.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah, the specs for most of them are not what most modern players want from what I've seen. kahlers, 8 strings with 26.5" scale= eww, abalone=  and the severe lack of ERG 7/8 string stealths/ironbirds is disheartening.



I don't think these are mostly for "modern" players, at least not yet. 

I think the aim is to cater to the older, legacy BCR fans. The guys climbing all over each other to scoop up old Platinum and NJ models above market, or just don't have the cash for the "good" old stuff. 

It makes sense as they're an easy target, and care more about the shapes and brand than specs.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

My only question is who is actually going to buy these when there is so much value to be had by other manufacturers with years of consistent quality. I give it a year before they start releasing more budget models and then we start all the way over. I had a draco once. The quality was just meh.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> My only question is who is actually going to buy these when there is so much value to be had by other manufacturers with years of consistent quality. I give it a year before they start releasing more budget models and then we start all the way over. I had a draco once. The quality was just meh.



Die hard, old school BCR fans. 

These aren't for "us". Not yet at least.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't think these are mostly for "modern" players, at least not yet.
> 
> I think the aim is to cater to the older, legacy BCR fans. The guys climbing all over each other to scoop up old Platinum and NJ models above market, or just don't have the cash for the "good" old stuff.
> 
> It makes sense as they're an easy target, and care more about the shapes and brand than specs.


Eh I don't totally agree that they're only targeting older diehard fans. They're making 7/8 string shredzillas with SOME modern specs like fluences, they're just not totally clocked into where the ERG market has gone in terms of aesthetics within the last decade. 
I mean I had an overload with abalone binding everywhere, but that guitar actually looked classy with it compared to the shit BC Rich has been showing off.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

KnightBrolaire said:


> Eh I don't totally agree that they're only targeting older diehard fans. They're making 7/8 string shredzillas with SOME modern specs like fluences, they're just not totally clocked into where the ERG market has gone in terms of aesthetics within the last decade.
> I mean I had an overload with abalone binding everywhere, but that guitar actually looked classy with it compared to the shit BC Rich has been showing off.



I didn't say they were only going old school, just mostly. 

They're making some token "modern" Super Strats, because it's pretty much a given. It's low hanging fruit.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I really don't feel like ERG nerds are the "modern" player. The majority of the stuff I see actually musicians out in the world playing look like what BCR has going on now.

Is the community big enough to start shelling out 23 stringed fan fret multi scale djent pickup flavor of the month spec'd Ironbirds and Stealths? Meeeehhh I dunno. I'm sure they'd do it at some point but at a limited run. Right now they need to hit the market with some flashy high end stuff, get people back with the brand and then later on try different things.

They tried to make a little of everything to hit everyone. Pointy shapes, super strats for people who like that shit, old school stuff for the BCR Boomers, even a little something for the 80s BCR people. And the stuff looks good quality. 

I'm not a huge BC Rich fan..but I'm impressed with what they've done and I'm sure this baseline release is going to determine what they release in the future so I'd honestly buy one just to support the company and keep it going. The only BCR guitars I owned was a platinum Virgin and my Dracos. The Dracos were awesome and I had no complaints..and those don't seem to be near the quality of the new line so I'm definitely looking forward to buying one of those Widow basses.


----------



## Vyn

^Would also add that we (the users of this forum) are in the serious minority when it comes to guitarists. The "modern" player really is just after an acoustic to play Ed Sheeran covers on.


----------



## A-Branger

Zado said:


> In 10 years they'll be making what ESP, Jackson, Schecter and Ibanez are selling now. Just wait.



black guitars with red pickups and red binding? 

lol

followed by a run of burl tops with weird burst colorsand a couple of years later with bevels on everything


----------



## ThePIGI King

So I tried both of these, and a black Stealth today. Verdict? Shredizilla looks good, abalone and all, and played even better.

The black stealth was pretty darn good too, but the anniversary stealth was awesome. If it had a floyd it'd have blown me away.

Hopeful that the 8 strings are as good. Only gripe is painted necks on the stealths, and all 3 necks were a little thicker than I usually go for, but not terrible. I liked these three over the RR7 (dunno which one, was like $650) which I normally like Jacksons a fair bit.

Not saying I'd ever buy these over my Ibbys, but figured a frist hand review would be nice.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

ThePIGI King said:


> View attachment 75186
> 
> View attachment 75187
> 
> 
> So I tried both of these, and a black Stealth today. Verdict? Shredizilla looks good, abalone and all, and played even better.
> 
> The black stealth was pretty darn good too, but the anniversary stealth was awesome. If it had a floyd it'd have blown me away.
> 
> Hopeful that the 8 strings are as good. Only gripe is painted necks on the stealths, and all 3 necks were a little thicker than I usually go for, but not terrible. I liked these three over the RR7 (dunno which one, was like $650) which I normally like Jacksons a fair bit.
> 
> Not saying I'd ever buy these over my Ibbys, but figured a frist hand review would be nice.




Were the string necks not as thin?


----------



## ThePIGI King

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Were the string necks not as thin?


String necks? Did it autocorrect from stealth necks?

If so, the shredzilla and stealths had pretty much same neck (7 string vs 6), but both were beefier than my Ibbys. I'd compare them to my old Hellraiser. My issue with the Stealths was the neck was gloss, where the shredzilla was satin like my Ibbys and LTD.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

ThePIGI King said:


> String necks? Did it autocorrect from stealth necks?
> 
> If so, the shredzilla and stealths had pretty much same neck (7 string vs 6), but both were beefier than my Ibbys. I'd compare them to my old Hellraiser. My issue with the Stealths was the neck was gloss, where the shredzilla was satin like my Ibbys and LTD.




Hm. I wonder how they feel and yeah aut0 correct got me screwed up.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## MrWulf

Damn those looks hawt


----------



## A-Branger

they keep using the wrong headstock on the mockingbird


----------



## jonsick

The only thing that I have concerns about is what is that control directly under and between the pickups? Regardless of whether it's a volume control or pickup selector, I'm struggling with my "It's unusual and I don't like it!" sentimentality of a guitar player. To me, it's either the most stupid decision ever or a complete game-changer. Though I'm not sure I'm happy to drop £1500 odd or whatever it is on trying it out. I'll wait til they get to UK shores. If ever...

But so far, the new guitars they have coming out are a great positive step. Hopefully they get the demand to meet their efforts. They have been quite bold in terms of how big the line is in terms of guitars and variations. I wonder how much money they are actually tying up in stock. 

Also, is it really Five Finger Death Punch in charge now? Or was that some joke that I missed?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Those are custom shop guitars, they're spec'd how the person/shop who ordered them wants.


----------



## iamaom

KnightBrolaire said:


> they're just not totally clocked into where the ERG market has gone in terms of aesthetics within the last decade.


But why the hell not? Like they could find out with half an hour on google and reverb. How can people with so much money and resources have so little ability to learn about their target market? The corporate world eludes me.


----------



## spudmunkey

Nvrmnd


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Just waiting for 2020 for all this shit to drop. Gonna wait and pull the trigger on the best candidate. I have the money to purchase it and if it doesnt go well then gunna buy an ESP. 

Hopefully they will have some models that aren't abalone infested by then


----------



## zappatton2

jonsick said:


> The only thing that I have concerns about is what is that control directly under and between the pickups?



I believe it's a kill button. It's actually a pretty big selling point for me, since I do enjoy using an LP pickup selector as a kill switch, and I'm eager to see if the button makes for a better, more seamless option.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

zappatton2 said:


> I believe it's a kill button. It's actually a pretty big selling point for me, since I do enjoy using an LP pickup selector as a kill switch, and I'm eager to see if the button makes for a better, more seamless option.



Thats another way to look at it. Never had a killed switch and not opposed to the idea of it.


----------



## Rev2010

A-Branger said:


> they keep using the wrong headstock on the mockingbird



You shush! I love it!


Rev.


----------



## A-Branger

Rev2010 said:


> You shush! I love it!
> 
> 
> Rev.


its ok, you are allowed to be wrong


----------



## Damon67

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's just a material, it's use can be striking and tasteful or ugly and dated, and of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
> 
> Personally, because I know everyone cares so much, I think it looks bad on otherwise "normal" looking guitars, but when used thematically, it can be really cool.
> 
> This is just so over the top and ridiculous it would be worse without the abalone:





spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75130





spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75130



This looks like a mashup of a Prince Cloud and Bill Gruggett's Halmark Stradette.


----------



## Damon67

27", Floyd Rose, 8 strings, and a shitload of abalone to make it wonderfully gaudy for all the haters.

Taking pics now.


----------



## trem licking

Damon67 said:


> 27", Floyd Rose, 8 strings, and a shitload of abalone to make it wonderfully gaudy for all the haters.
> 
> Taking pics now.


so they changed the spec from 26.5" to 27"? or this is a different model? they really are changing things up with the quickness on these... i can get down with this change though, 27" is perfect for 8 string + floyd.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

trem licking said:


> so they changed the spec from 26.5" to 27"? or this is a different model? they really are changing things up with the quickness on these... i can get down with this change though, 27" is perfect for 8 string + floyd.



IIRC they said from the beginning the 26.5'' was a prototype.


----------



## trem licking

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> IIRC they said from the beginning the 26.5'' was a prototype.


Right on. The first 8 string w Floyd was 25.5" I thought, then I saw 26.5" on the spalt one... Couple different prototypes I guess


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

trem licking said:


> Right on. The first 8 string w Floyd was 25.5" I thought, then I saw 26.5" on the spalt one... Couple different prototypes I guess


I think you're right actually. The first proto was 25.5'' and then they said 26.5''. My bad.


----------



## trem licking

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think you're right actually. The first proto was 25.5'' and then they said 26.5''. My bad.


Well there must have been multiple protos being that there's been 25.5, 26.5 and now 27. Unless it's a different model? These have sorta been all over the map scale wise


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

trem licking said:


> Well there must have been multiple protos being that there's been 25.5, 26.5 and now 27. Unless it's a different model? These have sorta been all over the map scale wise



Checking the spec sheet and it does still say 26.5''.

https://bcrich.com/product/shredzilla-8-prophecy-archtop-with-floyd-rose/


----------



## trem licking

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Checking the spec sheet and it does still say 26.5''.
> 
> https://bcrich.com/product/shredzilla-8-prophecy-archtop-with-floyd-rose/


Damon67's post up above shows him measuring 27" scale on whatever model that is


----------



## Hollowway

@Damon67 lemme see those pics! You’re killing me, man! Did you get a bunch of different models in? I’m curious what all the different options/variations on these are.


----------



## Damon67

@Holloway yeah... 42 guitar arrived yesterday. 31 more in a week. Just finished taking pics, now editing 500+ photos, then get everything online.

And flying to Oakland in the AM to catch one more game at the Coliseum before they head to Vegas. I'm, shooting for Monday evening.

Most models and options are listed on the site already though.


----------



## Hollowway

Damon67 said:


> @Holloway yeah... 42 guitar arrived yesterday. 31 more in a week. Just finished taking pics, now editing 500+ photos, then get everything online.
> 
> And flying to Oakland in the AM to catch one more game at the Coliseum before they head to Vegas. I'm, shooting for Monday evening.



I live like an hour from Oakland. Maybe I’ll meet you there, and you can adopt me, and I’ll be your live in adult son who takes care of your BC Rich collection. We’ll make it a TV show called “BC and Andy” and have a really good laugh track. 

Seriously, though - multiple 8 string trems in that batch?


----------



## Damon67

just 2... the bulk of them arrive next week. I think most stuff is listed on the site. I'll have inventory updated tonight

I like the show idea.


----------



## Damon67

Available in Black Cherry and Spalted Maple with Floyd. Best I can do for now. More Monday


----------



## Hollowway

Very cool. Thank you, good sir! These are coming out better than I expected - esp with the 27” scale length.


----------



## KentBrockman

MaxOfMetal said:


> I didn't say they were only going old school, just mostly.
> 
> They're making some token "modern" Super Strats, because it's pretty much a given. It's low hanging fruit.



BC Rich’s main appeal has been the pointy body shapes. I have no idea why anyone would buy a Shredzilla when other companies like Ibanez and Schecter have been making better built superstrats for decades.

unless you really like abalone I guess


----------



## Merrekof

angryification said:


> BC Rich’s main appeal has been the pointy body shapes. I have no idea why anyone would buy a Shredzilla when other companies like Ibanez and Schecter have been making better built superstrats for decades.
> 
> unless you really like abalone I guess


This is exactly what I posted a few pages ago. They have the Shredzilla in an already saturated market with lots of brands while they still have a big name in the pointy guitar market. And they could become a big player in that market.


----------



## possumkiller

BCR has been building strats and superstrats for decades.


----------



## Adieu

angryification said:


> BC Rich’s main appeal has been the pointy body shapes. I have no idea why anyone would buy a Shredzilla when other companies like Ibanez and Schecter have been making better built superstrats for decades.
> 
> unless you really like abalone I guess



False

BC Rich has been about ridiculous levels of bling on guitars since like forever... the pointy shapes were their response to the confusing 80s


----------



## Merrekof

possumkiller said:


> BCR has been building strats and superstrats for decades.


True, but when I look for a superstrat, BC Rich isn't the first brand to go to. I'm not saying they should stop making superstrats. It just seems like they're shifting the brand to less extreme shapes and more mainstream.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> It just seems like they're shifting the brand to less extreme shapes and more mainstream.



They have seven variants of the same Super Strat vs. almost 20 "original shaped" models with supposedly more on the way (Iron Bird, etc.).


----------



## Merrekof

Okay, point taken..

For 7-stringers like me there is only the Shredzilla if I'm not mistaken. Are there more 7's on the way as well?

Also, how is availability in Europe? Seems like BC Rich is US exclusive atm.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

If they really don't have the budget to take risks like they used to, then I think they're trying to take it slow. Seeing what people want before they start splurging.


----------



## trem licking

angryification said:


> BC Rich’s main appeal has been the pointy body shapes. I have no idea why anyone would buy a Shredzilla when other companies like Ibanez and Schecter have been making better built superstrats for decades.
> 
> unless you really like abalone I guess


I'm buying a shredzilla because no one else has the balls to make an 8 string with a Floyd and it looks cool. Also it's a pointy superstrat, as pointy as you can get as far as a superstrat can go.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Merrekof said:


> True, but when I look for a superstrat, BC Rich isn't the first brand to go to. I'm not saying they should stop making superstrats. It just seems like they're shifting the brand to less extreme shapes and more mainstream.



Everything is back except for the Draco, Virgin, Beast, and Ignitor.

They've been doing Superstrats since forever.

The goal of the line is to show how diverse they are and give all BC Rich fans something. There ARE BC Rich fans into superstrats..so they got you covered. Want something pointy? They got all the Vs, Warlocks, Ironbirds, Warbeasts and stuff for you. Wanna pretend you're Chuck Schuldiner? They got Stealths......Ok Boomer? They got Mockingbirds, Biches and "old style" stuff. Extended range fan? They got you covered.

Play bass? They got Warlocks and Widows in 4 and 5 string.

AND from what I understand they're custom shop is bigger than ever in case ya want something the regular line doesn't cover.

Not only did they drop all this stuff BUT they're making sure it's quality. They want to avoid the BC Rich bronze plague and introduce "top of the line" gear for serious players WHILE still giving some tacky flare because that's what BC Rich is known for.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Also everything above said is true. Ever since the 80s they've had at least one superstrat. SIII, Gunslinger, Assassin, Villain... This is just a new generation of Superstrats to fit in for more modern sensibilities. 

The only reason you're seeing everyone talk about the Shredzilla is because you're on a website that pretty much worships the RG shape


----------



## Merrekof

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The only reason you're seeing everyone talk about the Shredzilla is because you're on a website that pretty much worships the RG shape


Hmmmm, I'm just biased towards 7 strings I guess. You guys are right. If I wanted a pointy 6 string, there are options. And I'm not complaining about abalone or scale lengths...


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Personally I hate super strats..they're boring as fuck and seem to be for people who lack individuality or imagination..but that's just me.

That being said those Shredzillas look like cool. I'd try one in a store if I found one. Doubt I'd ever buy one but, ya never know


----------



## Merrekof

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Personally I hate super strats..they're boring as fuck and seem to be for people who lack individuality or imagination..but that's just me.
> 
> That being said those Shredzillas look like cool. I'd try one in a store if I found one. Doubt I'd ever buy one but, ya never know


I used to hate them, then I got one because of the wizard necks and soon after followed 3 superstrat 7's. Nowadays I'm looking at 7's that aren't superstrats. Like tele style guitars. (Ibanez FR, Ormsby TX GTR7)
Personally I'd love more BC Rich 7's. Like a mockingbird 7 with an inline headstock, or a Warlock, Ignitor, Virgin or Virgo (I like one but not the other and always forget wich one it is  )
I don't have the funds to buy another guitar right now anyway but it's nice to have options.. 
Also custom shop is waaaaay out of my league. If it wasn't I probably would've had one yeaaaaars ago!

Edit: I was certain they would've had a 7 string Warlock somewhere in the initial run.


----------



## Rosal76

Damon67 said:


> Available in Black Cherry and Spalted Maple with Floyd. Best I can do for now. More Monday



That is nice. I can only imagine the back springs for the Floyd are holding on for dear life. LOL.


----------



## Russian Robot

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Personally I hate super strats..they're boring as fuck and seem to be for people who lack individuality or imagination..but that's just me.



Eh. All of the specs that I want on one guitar, generally, only appear on super strats.


----------



## Hollowway

Rosal76 said:


> That is nice. I can only imagine the back springs for the Floyd are holding on for dear life. LOL.


You don’t need much tension on an 8 string Floyd, really. I have one and it’s not substantially different than a 6 or 7. I’ve never done a test, but I would think that reducing springs on the 8 would feel looser than and increased spring 6 string.


----------



## spudmunkey

Magnetic truss rod cover is a nice touch. Do we know if this is an across-the-board feature, or just on these glammed-up 50th builds?


----------



## Hollowway

Damn, is the magnetic truss rod cover something that they just came up with now, or has it been around? That's an awesome idea.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Hollowway said:


> Damn, is the magnetic truss rod cover something that they just came up with now, or has it been around? That's an awesome idea.



I've heard of magnetic control cavities, which is similar.


----------



## Hollowway

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I've heard of magnetic control cavities, which is similar.


Yeah, me too, but I feel like this is the first I've seen of the truss rod covers. I rarely go into the control cavity, but I feel like I'm in that truss rod cavity at least once a year.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, me too, but I feel like this is the first I've seen of the truss rod covers. I rarely go into the control cavity, but I feel like I'm in that truss rod cavity at least once a year.



TBH I like Ibanez's approach the most. The truss rod cover is screwed on, but has a window that can open.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I think those are only for the 50th custom builds and maybe custom shop as well.

From the website it looks as if they are just plain old fashioned.

Also that trans black fr shredzilla is calling me, too bad since I just put a order in for a kemper which I have been saving up for the better part of the whole year.


----------



## Hollowway

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> TBH I like Ibanez's approach the most. The truss rod cover is screwed on, but has a window that can open.


Yep, I agree. I wish smaller luthiers had a slick strategy like that. And all Ibbys had it!


----------



## AltecGreen

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, me too, but I feel like this is the first I've seen of the truss rod covers. I rarely go into the control cavity, but I feel like I'm in that truss rod cavity at least once a year.



My old Alquier Fastback had both magnetic cavity covers and a magnetic truss rod cover.


----------



## possumkiller

I would rather they do it like j custom and ditch the truss rod cover completely.


----------



## manu80

More V's please. Thank you.


----------



## BusinessMan

Hollowway said:


> Damn, is the magnetic truss rod cover something that they just came up with now, or has it been around? That's an awesome idea.



It’s an awesome idea and I’m a
Bit surprised it hasn’t been thought of before.


----------



## xzacx

If only someone would come up with something crazy, like a truss rod cover they just didn’t even put in the way in the first place.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

xzacx said:


> If only someone would come up with something crazy, like a truss rod cover they just didn’t even put in the way in the first place.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>




ew


----------



## electriceye

That large poster fo the models is way more impressive than I ever expected. So, I’ll give them credit for that. 

However, what the fuck is with the abalone binding on almost every model? Stop it!!


----------



## Hollowway

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I think those are only for the 50th custom builds and maybe custom shop as well.
> 
> From the website it looks as if they are just plain old fashioned.
> 
> Also that trans black fr shredzilla is calling me, too bad since I just put a order in for a kemper which I have been saving up for the better part of the whole year.


Yeah, I've got my eye on the spalted 8 FR, but I wish there was a trans black version of it. That it a good looking finish on these!


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Metal Mortician

Static X inlay? Bear claw?


----------



## metaljohn

The only thing I don't really dig about the Extreme Series is the abalone, everything else is fine. I'm just kinda hoping the Wave and Ignitor make a comeback.


----------



## Hollowway

Metal Mortician said:


> Static X inlay? Bear claw?


Lol, ya, wtf is that??


----------



## possumkiller

Hollowway said:


> Lol, ya, wtf is that??


Witcher 3 logo?


----------



## Adieu

Idk, but it's probably the Kyles from 5FDP's fault????


----------



## spudmunkey

So, turned sideways, like it would be when holding the guitar horizontally, it's an "X", in a hexagon made by the X and triangles, with a sort of trident/crown on the top.

Do _any_ of those mean anything to BC Rich, or 50 or...anything?


----------



## Adieu

spudmunkey said:


> So, turned sideways, like it would be when holding the guitar horizontally, it's an "X", in a hexagon made by the X and triangles, with a sort of trident/crown on the top.
> 
> Do _any_ of those mean anything to BC Rich, or 50 or...anything?



The eX-tremety and royal gawdliness of the baller bling??


----------



## KnightBrolaire

duh x for XTREEEEEME
The crown is actually a mistake, it's supposed to be an m for Monster but someone messed up and inverted it
I'm joking about the last part


----------



## Viginez

burning x?...


----------



## Adieu

KnightBrolaire said:


> duh x for XTREEEEEME
> The crown is actually a mistake, it's supposed to be an m for Monster but someone messed up and inverted it
> I'm joking about the last part



Monster sent em a cease and desist so they had to improvise

PS wonder what Fiat thinks about their Jeep Renegade taillight on a BCRich


----------



## Seabeast2000

I think it's a symbol of the emerging Kingdom of Abalone.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75372
> View attachment 75373



hey look some ESP's in the background!

Anyways I don't like pule burl


----------



## BusinessMan

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75372
> View attachment 75373



“Aaagghhuughhh the abalone is too much! Why don’t they make guitars without it? WAh the abalone hurt mah butt.” 

Lol no offense intended but I wanted to say it first.


----------



## Viginez

the traditional ironbird-player isn't into flashy/cheesy stuff, so i really dunno who they are targeting with this...


----------



## Merrekof

Viginez said:


> the traditional ironbird-player isn't into flashy/cheesy stuff, so i really dunno who they are targeting with this...


The new and upcoming ironbird-players perhaps?


----------



## trem licking

These guitars are rad looking... The abalone accentuates the shape in a cool way


----------



## Adieu

Viginez said:


> the traditional ironbird-player isn't into flashy/cheesy stuff, so i really dunno who they are targeting with this...



I think you meant "dead" or "over it"

So chances are they have a point...



trem licking said:


> These guitars are rad looking... The abalone accentuates the shape in a cool way



...see?


----------



## trem licking

I'd take these new abalonerz over a plain Jane anyday. I mean I get peeps like a plain look but these are killer. I've never been a bc rich dude really, but these new ones are swaying me


----------



## spudmunkey

I dont mind the abalone itself...what I mind it what the squared edge profile supercedes any chamfers and contours on the edges.


----------



## pastanator

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/b...ean-guitars-artist-roster-its-about-business/ 

I guess FFDP arent running bc rich? Seems it’s Bill Xavier, whoever that is


----------



## gunshow86de

/waits months for new Ironbird photos
/gets poplar burl and abalone


----------



## MaxOfMetal

pastanator said:


> https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/b...ean-guitars-artist-roster-its-about-business/
> 
> I guess FFDP arent running bc rich? Seems it’s Bill Xavier, whoever that is



The President/CEO of a company is not exactly the default owner. They're the President/CEO. 

Bill has been in the industry forever. He worked with Peavey in the late 90's and early 00's, worked for Kaman and Hanser, and was last a VP at Ovation. 

The kind of industry vet you'd hire to run your newly purchased guitar business.


----------



## Vyn

Rosal76 said:


> That is nice. I can only imagine the back springs for the Floyd are holding on for dear life. LOL.



Pick the correct string set and you won't have any issues. All my 7 string trems are 2 or 3 springs at max, including one down to F standard. Generally end up having slightly lighter gauges on a trem than on a hardtail anyway.


----------



## Hollowway

spudmunkey said:


> I dont mind the abalone itself...what I mind it what the squared edge profile supercedes any chamfers and contours on the edges.



I’m ok with it on the body, but it just looks too thick on the FB. I’ll prolly still get the Floyd 8, but I’d love it if the FB was bound, but didn’t had the purfling - abalone or anything else, for that matter.


----------



## MrWulf

Man, whoever said "traditional Ironbird players arent into flashy/cheesy stuff" gotta be kidding me. The Ironbird is pretty flashy and pointy in all direction. If the abalone binding is what makes you think it is "flashy/cheesy" then you got wrong priority.


----------



## Viginez

MrWulf said:


> The Ironbird is pretty flashy and pointy in all direction.


it is, but they put some extra double cheese on it...


----------



## PhantomLord

So... when will they add Monster energy inlays?


----------



## narad

pastanator said:


> https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/b...ean-guitars-artist-roster-its-about-business/
> 
> I guess FFDP arent running bc rich? Seems it’s Bill Xavier, whoever that is



"Each USA Kerry King V Limited Edition 50 Pc guitar is priced at $8,666 and can be ordered from the *Dean Guitars* web site."

Fuuuck that. Are there really people who would buy them?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> "Each USA Kerry King V Limited Edition 50 Pc guitar is priced at $8,666 and can be ordered from the *Dean Guitars* web site."
> 
> Fuuuck that. Are there really people who would buy them?



There are people who will buy two. Not joking.


----------



## gunshow86de

MrWulf said:


> Man, whoever said "traditional Ironbird players arent into flashy/cheesy stuff" gotta be kidding me. The Ironbird is pretty flashy and pointy in all direction. If the abalone binding is what makes you think it is "flashy/cheesy" then you got wrong priority.



All I want is one of these, but with a Floyd instead of a Kahler. No abalone. No shitty looking poplar burl (which will undoubtedly be in some kind of green/blue fade/burst, just like every company makes these days). 

Either way, BC Rich already publicly commented that the Legacy line of Ironbirds won't have any binding. So I'll just keep my fingers cross that in another 6 months when the production photos of that line are ready it will look like one of the below Ironbirds.


----------



## Randy

Since this thread is 80% complaining, am I too late to say it's stupid that you can't buy any one of these guitars for under $1400?


----------



## cardinal

I'm sure with just a little bit of effort and teamwork we can get this to 100% complaining. Y the 5-string basses have to be 35" scale?


----------



## spudmunkey

Randy said:


> Since this thread is 80% complaining, am I too late to say it's stupid that you can't buy any one of these guitars for under $1400?



Eh, it makes a certain amount of sense. Like Tesla or something similar: you release your flashy attention-grabbing (and higher profit) "sports car". Then, once you've got things rolling, you can start marching towards the higher-volume, lower-cost, lower-profit items.


----------



## gunshow86de

Randy said:


> Since this thread is 80% complaining, am I too late to say it's stupid that you can't buy any one of these guitars for under $1400?





cardinal said:


> I'm sure with just a little bit of effort and teamwork we can get this to 100% complaining. Y the 5-string basses have to be 35" scale?


----------



## gunshow86de

spudmunkey said:


> Eh, it makes a certain amount of sense. Like Tesla or something similar: you release your flashy attention-grabbing (and higher profit) "sports car". Then, once you've got things rolling, you can start marching towards the higher-volume, lower-cost, lower-profit items.



Except they skipped the Roadster and went full Cybertruck.


----------



## Mathemagician

gunshow86de said:


> Except they skipped the Roadster and went full Cybertruck.



$8 billion worth of preorders. So, if it’s dumb but it works it ain’t dumb.


----------



## spudmunkey

Mathemagician said:


> $8 billion worth of preorders. So, if it’s dumb but it works it ain’t dumb.



I mean...it's fully-refundable, $100 name-on-a-list placeholders that would _represent_ $8 billion worth in sales.


----------



## Mathemagician

spudmunkey said:


> I mean...it's fully-refundable, $100 name-on-a-list placeholders that would _represent_ $8 billion worth in sales.



I just wanted to point out if let’s say 5% is true that’s $400mm in gross sales. Which should at least cover R&D


----------



## Adieu

Uhm, I actually LIKE bigazz trucks...but having googled it, I just gotta ask: what the FUCK is that?????


----------



## spudmunkey

Adieu said:


> Uhm, I actually LIKE bigazz trucks...but having googled it, I just gotta ask: what the FUCK is that?????



It's not even that big. It's shape makes it look more imposing, but it's within a few inches (smaller, in at least one dimension) of the Ford F-150.


----------



## Adieu

spudmunkey said:


> It's not even that big. It's shape makes it look more imposing, but it's within a few inches (smaller, in at least one dimension) of the Ford F-150.



WHICH f150 though? Not the shortbed single cab???


----------



## spudmunkey

Adieu said:


> WHICH f150 though? Not the shortbed single cab???



No, the equivilent body style.


----------



## Adieu

spudmunkey said:


> No, the equivilent body style.



Ford doesn't MAKE a Stealth-styled wannabe-HMMWV tho.... that looks more like some dumbass reject project from Putin's sycophants


----------



## MrWulf

Viginez said:


> it is, but they put some extra double cheese on it...


 
Just how Americans like it, amirite?


----------



## spudmunkey

Adieu said:


> Ford doesn't MAKE a Stealth-styled wannabe-HMMWV tho.... that looks more like some dumbass reject project from Putin's sycophants
> 
> View attachment 75421



What I meant was, the 4-door size with the similar-sized bed. The Tesla's bed is actually a bit longer than Ford's in the same footprint. From a practicality standpoint, though, the tall angled side walls would inhibit hauling certain things that might hang over the side walls.


----------



## Adieu

It's a useless-looking brodozer


.... I'm sure the public will absolutely go apeshit for it.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

WHY DO THEY NOT HAVE A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE OWNERS OF BCR (THE 5 KYLES) AND MONSTER? SEEMS OUTRAGEOUS.

I WANT THE GUITARS COLOR TO BE THE EXACT SHADE OF GREEN AS MONSTER OR ELSE ITS NOT FOR A TRUE ALPHA MALE


----------



## Adieu

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> WHY DO THEY NOT HAVE A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN THE OWNERS OF BCR (THE 5 KYLES) AND MONSTER? SEEMS OUTRAGEOUS.
> 
> I WANT THE GUITARS COLOR TO BE THE EXACT SHADE OF GREEN AS MONSTER OR ELSE ITS NOT FOR A TRUE ALPHA MALE



I think Monster might have a prior relationship with ESP


The Kyles must be soooo jelly


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Adieu said:


> I think Monster might have a prior relationship with ESP
> 
> 
> The Kyles must be soooo jelly



The news of this will result in 5 punctures into a wall


----------



## spudmunkey

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I WANT THE GUITARS COLOR TO BE THE EXACT SHADE OF GREEN AS MONSTER



I hate to break it to you, but...


----------



## Vyn

FWIW I'm surprised they haven't realised a black Ironbird covered in Monster Energy logos...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

https://www.facebook.com/BCRichGuitars/posts/10157444941986014



> We are thinking of a 2020 #ChuckSchuldiner reissue ... But... what would you want to see
> A. Flawless New Stealth with the same specs
> B. Stealth with the same specks, the dings and the wear n’ tear - basically a *replica* of Chuck’s Guitar ?


----------



## gunshow86de

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://www.facebook.com/BCRichGuitars/posts/10157444941986014


I agree with the guy saying green Stealth reissue.


----------



## gunshow86de

spudmunkey said:


> It's not even that big. It's shape makes it look more imposing, but it's within a few inches (smaller, in at least one dimension) of the Ford F-150.





spudmunkey said:


> What I meant was, the 4-door size with the similar-sized bed. The Tesla's bed is actually a bit longer than Ford's in the same footprint. From a practicality standpoint, though, the tall angled side walls would inhibit hauling certain things that might hang over the side walls.



Yeah but the Tesla doesn't make me feel better about my penis size*.









*I've only ever owned trucks


----------



## ThePIGI King

Why not both?

Flawless Stealth reissue for the people like me who love Death. And the the Replica for the ultra Chuck fanatics? Like Ibby did with thr JEM7V and the EVO.

And the green one.

EDIT: I, however, would only buy the Chuck stealth if BCR does what some others mentioned a while ago. Which would be donating some money to family or a charitable cause to further research or medicine or something. Who ever posted the OG thought knows what I mean...

Also, I have an LTD F MiC with a huge monster logo in storage right now. My uncle won it randomly and told me when I was old enough it would be mine so long I never sell it. Fight me, bros


----------



## Randy

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://www.facebook.com/BCRichGuitars/posts/10157444941986014



Considering everything they're doing is overpriced, i think we can do without an additional $800 in relicing


----------



## Hollowway

Randy said:


> Since this thread is 80% complaining, am I too late to say it's stupid that you can't buy any one of these guitars for under $1400?



They're $1399 with a mandatory $300 abalone upgrade.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Considering everything they're doing is overpriced, i think we can do without an additional $800 in relicing



Besides, cheap relicing sucks. It's like photo-figured tops. It might look decent in highly edited, best-case website pics, but in person it's chintzy as fuck.


----------



## Randy

Its all abologna, if you ask me.


----------



## Randy

MaxOfMetal said:


> Besides, cheap relicing sucks. It's like photo-figured tops. It might look decent in highly edited, best-case website pics, but in person it's chintzy as fuck.



Yeah those LTD reliced super strats looked like Pier 1 home decor


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Yeah those LTD reliced super strats looked like Pier 1 home decor



It's the perennially 40% off shabby chic Micheal's crap of guitar finishes.


----------



## gunshow86de

Randy said:


> Its all abologna, if you ask me.


----------



## Hollowway

Randy said:


> Yeah those LTD reliced super strats looked like Pier 1 home decor





MaxOfMetal said:


> It's the perennially 40% off shabby chic Micheal's crap of guitar finishes.



 I'll never not think that when I see crappy relics, now.


----------



## spudmunkey

Eww...look at all of those places for dust to collect on the pickups!!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> Eww...look at all of those places for dust to collect on the pickups!!



And I bet you those knobs don't all face the same direction either.


----------



## mlp187

Adieu said:


> It's a useless-looking brodozer
> 
> 
> .... I'm sure the public will absolutely go apeshit for it.


I really like it.


----------



## Damon67

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> hey look some ESP's in the background!
> 
> Anyways I don't like pule burl



I'm betting that's the first color, green and blue to follow... Reptile Eye


----------



## Damon67




----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

So apparently they're gonna be bringing back more shapes. I'm hoping for a Virgin bass with a Beast headstock. Those guitars are perfect with that headstock. The Ignitor I'm sure will come back...and I have a feeling a Draco will pop up at some point. Oddly enough quite a few people have requested them. I dunno if I'd buy another, but if the specs are decent I might get one for old time's sake.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

.......on the used market


----------



## Merrekof

Damon67 said:


>


Okay, I must admit. This one is really nice. The abalone doesn't bother me at all here.


----------



## Edika

Refreshed several times before retrying, still got a double post...


----------



## Edika

Adieu said:


> Ford doesn't MAKE a Stealth-styled wannabe-HMMWV tho.... that looks more like some dumbass reject project from Putin's sycophants
> 
> View attachment 75421



I mean I would expect Tesla RnD to be able to afford something better than the Quake engine for the truck design. Even the Unreal II Tournament engine wouldn't be that much


----------



## Randy

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75427
> View attachment 75428



Terrible business model. I'm rewinding to all of us lusting over a 7-string Agile Strat, brow beating Kurt into building them and I think I remember seeing one NGD on here. Same thing with the headless.

If they're going to chase after every shape and spec they get fed to them on IG, and still price these over $1400, they're going to sell, like, three guitars.


----------



## vilk

Edika said:


> I mean I would expect Tesla RnD to be able to afford something better than the Quake engine for the truck design. Even the Unreal II Tournament engine wouldn't be that much



It is based on this James Bond car, according to Elon.






Honestly I think both cars are cool as fuck.


----------



## Edika

vilk said:


> It is based on this James Bond car, according to Elon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I think both cars are cool as fuck.



I agree, if you take the Bond car through the Quake engine.

The Tesal car might be cool in terms of options and specs but in terms of design it reminds me what a toddler would draw as a super cool car. And I'm not a Tesla hater. I really like their other designs. Just not this one.

Maybe it appeals to all the people playing Minecraft. It's been really popular the past years and younger people are really into it so Ellon must be thinking quite ahead in this regard plus saving a fortune in design, prototyping, aesthetics and manufacturing and assembly (I'm exaggerating I know...).


----------



## xzacx

vilk said:


> Honestly I think both cars are cool as fuck.



I don't love the look, but it was clearly a choice rather than "not being able to afford a better design." It obviously looks that way because that's what Tesla wanted. And they sure got the reaction they wanted, so it seems like somewhat of a win regardless. (Not that I think it'll actually come out when it's been advertised for, and it'll probably end up looking a decent amount different.)


----------



## vilk

Edika said:


> I agree, if you take the Bond car through the Quake engine.
> 
> The Tesal car might be a cool in terms of options and specs but in terms of design it reminds me what a toddler would draw as a super cool car. And I'm not a Tesla hater. I really like their other designs. Just not this one.
> 
> Maybe it appeals to all the people playing Minecraft. It's been really popular the past years and younger people are really into it so Ellon must be thinking quite ahead in this regard plus saving a fortune in design, prototyping, aesthetics and manufacturing and assembly (I'm exaggerating I know...).



I'm 29 and I've never played Minecraft fwiw

I just kinda hate how cars became round bubbles. I miss when cars used to have angles. I've been complaining about it for years, then dudeman comes out with a car that's pure angles. It's like he made it for me.

and I'm not even really interested in Tesla or electric cars or even cars in general. I just like the way it looks. And I like the name. I'm gonna name my kid Cybertruck.


----------



## Adieu

vilk said:


> It is based on this James Bond car, according to Elon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I think both cars are cool as fuck.



Bullshit

It's the bastard offspring of hardcore Delorean x HMMWV fan porn


(Rendered in glorious 320 x 240 no less)


----------



## Edika

vilk said:


> I'm 29 and I've never played Minecraft fwiw
> 
> I just kinda hate how cars became round bubbles. I miss when cars used to have angles. I've been complaining about it for years, then dudeman comes out with a car that's pure angles. It's like he made it for me.
> 
> and I'm not even really interested in Tesla or electric cars or even cars in general. I just like the way it looks. And I like the name. I'm gonna name my kid Cybertruck.



Well the bubbles aka curves are supposedly more aerodynamic and this looks like it would be slicing through the air like knife. Not sure how aerodynamic a knife is with the longer side on the z axis.

But just to be clear I'm just joking about the car as the first two things that came to mind was Quake (which I used to play a lot) and Minecraft (which I haven't played with but it seems most kids from two and upwards seem to be aware).

You're more than entitled to like the design and if you can afford it buy it when it comes into the market. I'm just in a really bad mood and taking out my frustration on an inanimate object.


----------



## Viginez

Adieu said:


> View attachment 75421


----------



## Adieu

If this is all they got, the promised Ford F150 Electric and rumored Chevy/GM electric trucks will crush em

And if Lincoln and Cadillac get good electrified models with bling... this Mars Rover Quake from the 90s shit is doomed


----------



## Seabeast2000

How fast are we expecting this truck to go? 
I'd like to see it run a Baja 1000 though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Edika said:


> I'm just in a really bad mood and taking out my frustration on an inanimate object.



This should, no joke, be the tag line of every guitar forum.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> This should, no joke, be the tag line of every [enthusiast] forum.



FTFY


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Ugh....that Widow is life and I want one so bad. Then I can finally stop playing my bassist's widow when he's not at the practice space


----------



## spudmunkey

Adieu said:


> If this is all they got, the promised Ford F150 Electric and rumored Chevy/GM electric trucks will crush em



The thing is...there's no way Tesla could have competed directly against the Ford, Chevy and Ram fanbois. You think Kiesel fans are nuts? They have got little on the folks on both sides of "Ford v Chevy". The people who buy pickups trucks likely already know what their next truck, or 2 or 3 trucks, will be.

Nissan and Toyota have tried several times to crack in. Ford, Chevy and Ram have the top 3 full-size pickups. Toyota is the next one down...and is less than 1/4 of Ram. Barely over 1/10th of the F150. Nissan is even below that...and they've both been trying to compete for decades (admittedly...some could/would/should say they did so a little half-heartedly for a good long while).
I mean...GMC trucks only exists as a brand because of the name recognition. They are just chevys wearing a different outfit...and yet, enough people/companies buy them because of the name that it's still worth GM to have this whole other brand (even after cutting Pontiac, Saturn, etc) that they can still spend the money on designing a slightly revised nose, some badges, and all of the dealer collateral/marketing.

Tesla is likely going to get *some* of those pickup truck folks, and perhaps a handfull of high-profile fleet contracts, but they are mostly going to find whatever success they could by having to crack into the market of people like MKBHD who just want the latest and greatest trendy vehicle.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hey op can we add something trucks in the title?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> The thing is...there's no way Tesla could have competed directly against the Ford, Chevy and Ram fanbois. You think Kiesel fans are nuts? They have got little on the folks on both sides of "Ford v Chevy". The people who buy pickups trucks likely already know what their next truck, or 2 or 3 trucks, will be.
> 
> Nissan and Toyota have tried several times to crack in. Ford, Chevy and Ram have the top 3 full-size pickups. Toyota is the next one down...and is less than 1/4 of Ram. Barely over 1/10th of the F150. Nissan is even below that...and they've both been trying to compete for decades (admittedly...some could/would/should say they did so a little half-heartedly for a good long while).
> I mean...GMC trucks only exists as a brand because of the name recognition. They are just chevys wearing a different outfit...and yet, enough people/companies buy them because of the name that it's still worth GM to have this whole other brand (even after cutting Pontiac, Saturn, etc) that they can still spend the money on designing a slightly revised nose, some badges, and all of the dealer collateral/marketing.
> 
> Tesla is likely going to get *some* of those pickup truck folks, and perhaps a handfull of high-profile fleet contracts, but they are mostly going to find whatever success they could by having to crack into the market of people like MKBHD who just want the latest and greatest trendy vehicle.



Two words: chicken tax.

The Asian and European brands simply can't sell their best products over here. They're at a 25% price handicap out of the gate in a sector that's already incredibly bloated and expensive.

It doesn't help that the foreign offerings are typically less configurable, have fewer engines available, and don't have a fleet market. 

Speaking as someone who's had pickup trucks and work with the kind of folks you're talking about, brand jumping has become a lot more common. Especially now that the RAMs are a heck of a lot more competitive and GM's engine choices have stagnated.



JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hey op can we add something trucks in the title?



Unfortunately we've hit the character limit. Maybe I'll fuck around with it later. 

Normally I'd try to get things back on path, but this thread has become dreadfully boring with no one actually buying anything, just [still] complaining about price and abalone.


----------



## spudmunkey

Speaking of prices and abalone, did you know that the price of abalone (meat, global average) went up nearly 18% last week?
https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/abalone/price


----------



## Seabeast2000

spudmunkey said:


> Speaking of prices and abalone, did you know that the price of abalone (meat, global average) went up nearly 18% last week?
> https://www.tridge.com/intelligences/abalone/price


Mafia


----------



## spudmunkey

Or...is BC Rich so smart and ahead-of-the-curve that they saw this coming, and are building up a cache of abalone-laden guitars to use up all of the supply, and corner the market, artificially driving up the demand (and prices) of their new guitars?!?!?!

BC Rich:


----------



## StevenC

vilk said:


> It is based on this James Bond car, according to Elon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I think both cars are cool as fuck.


Tesla have been knocking off Lotus since their inception so this makes sense.


----------



## Seabeast2000

1 kilo of caught abalone brings only about 250 grams of meat due to shell weight.


----------



## spudmunkey

StevenC said:


> Tesla have been knocking off Lotus since their inception so this makes sense.



Is it "knocking off" when it was a business partnership?


----------



## spudmunkey

I think we all know why the cybertruck is pyramid-shaped.

Illuminati confirmed.


----------



## Obsidian Soul

From the videos I've seen,the cybertruck was designed that way because the material they used was so hard it would constantly wreck the tooling to bend and contour it too much.


----------



## spudmunkey

Obsidian Soul said:


> From the videos I've seen,the cybertruck was designed that way because the material they used was so hard it would constantly wreck the tooling to bend and contour it too much.



Eeeeeehhh...i don't know enough about metalurgy, but that sounds suspect. I mean...with the _right_ tooling/machinering, you could bend a 44" tall I-beam.

And keeping those edges and creases perfectly lined up will be MUCH harder than if there were radius and curves. Tesla has enough trouble with normal panel gaps and alignment on their cars, as it is. I don't think i've ever seen a Model X's Falcon Doors align perfectly on any one I've seen in person. Their rear hatch lids on the Model S are also often slightly twisted..just like it was on my '01 Cougar hatchback.


----------



## Obsidian Soul

spudmunkey said:


> Eeeeeehhh...i don't know enough about metalurgy, but that sounds suspect. I mean...with the _right_ tooling/machinering, you could bend a 44" tall I-beam.
> 
> And keeping those edges and creases perfectly lined up will be MUCH harder than if there were radius and curves. Tesla has enough trouble with normal panel gaps and alignment on their cars, as it is. I don't think i've ever seen a Model X's Falcon Doors align perfectly on any one I've seen in person. Their rear hatch lids on the Model S are also often slightly twisted..just like it was on my '01 Cougar hatchback.


Don't shoot the messenger.I'm not sure if it was mentioned what the material was called,but that was the excuse that was given.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> Two words: chicken tax.
> 
> The Asian and European brands simply can't sell their best products over here. They're at a 25% price handicap out of the gate in a sector that's already incredibly bloated and expensive.
> 
> It doesn't help that the foreign offerings are typically less configurable, have fewer engines available, and don't have a fleet market.
> 
> Speaking as someone who's had pickup trucks and work with the kind of folks you're talking about, brand jumping has become a lot more common. Especially now that the RAMs are a heck of a lot more competitive and GM's engine choices have stagnated.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately we've hit the character limit. Maybe I'll fuck around with it later.
> 
> Normally I'd try to get things back on path, but this thread has become dreadfully boring with no one actually buying anything, just [still] complaining about price and abalone.




I mean once the 6 string fr trans black is available for me to purchase i will do so. Cant purchase something if it isnt available for purchase


----------



## Damon67




----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean once the 6 string fr trans black is available for me to purchase i will do so. Cant purchase something if it isnt available for purchase



This one? 

https://www.redblanketguitars.com/p...oyd-Rose-5-Finishes-472.html?cPath=10_451_456


----------



## Albake21

These Shredzillas are actually really nice! I'm excited for the cheaper, less flashy models to come in the future.


----------



## Adieu

If this were 2002, they might well have conquered the world overnight

In 2020...who knows???


----------



## manu80

looks really nice.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> This one?
> 
> https://www.redblanketguitars.com/p...oyd-Rose-5-Finishes-472.html?cPath=10_451_456




Yes i wanna get some pictures on it too. Just waiting, should be just a few weeks.


----------



## Damon67

Hey Justin. Why wait?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

That shape is fucking growing on me.


----------



## sirbuh

MaxOfMetal said:


> This one?
> 
> https://www.redblanketguitars.com/p...oyd-Rose-5-Finishes-472.html?cPath=10_451_456



How is that shop? Never ordered from them before.


----------



## possumkiller

Holy freaking god man! Just look at how shitty the alignment is on that trem cover plate! One side is on the line and the other side is way off. Jesus why can't they get anything right?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

possumkiller said:


> Holy freaking god man! Just look at how shitty the alignment is on that trem cover plate! One side is on the line and the other side is way off. Jesus why can't they get anything right?



Just like a true Rico.


----------



## spudmunkey

possumkiller said:


> Holy freaking god man! Just look at how shitty the alignment is on that trem cover plate! One side is on the line and the other side is way off. Jesus why can't they get anything right?



I...I cant tell if you're being serious. I see a high post count, so i assume trolling (and also because I have a mental block against pairing personalities/comments/life details with online usernames), but...OK, I'll bite, just in case of newbies reading. Ha!

Trem cover plates are rarely centered, unless they are too big. The floyd route is asymetrical.

For example, here's an Ibanez Prestige (yes, I know it's an edge zero, and not a floyd):


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> I...I cant tell if you're being serious. I see a high post count, so i assume trolling (and also because I have a mental block against pairing personalities/comments/life details with online usernames), but...OK, I'll bite, just in case of newbies reading. Ha!
> 
> Trem cover plates are rarely centered, unless they are too big. The floyd route is asymetrical.
> 
> For example, here's an Ibanez Prestige (yes, I know it's an edge zero, and not a floyd):



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law


----------



## Damon67

sirbuh said:


> How is that shop? Never ordered from them before.



It's warm and well humidified. What exactly is it you'd like to know? Listed 2nd right after Musician's Friend on BC Rich's dealer page... really we should be #1


----------



## Adieu

How DOES a dealer that only sells Ovation and BC Rich live, anyway?

Considering that BC Rich is like 3 weeks old born-again....


----------



## Hollowway

Damon67 said:


> It's warm and well humidified. What exactly is it you'd like to know? Listed 2nd right after Musician's Friend on BC Rich's dealer page... really we should be #1


 Well played!

Were you able to get any shots of the spalted 8 Floyd?


----------



## electriceye

possumkiller said:


> Holy freaking god man! Just look at how shitty the alignment is on that trem cover plate! One side is on the line and the other side is way off. Jesus why can't they get anything right?



It’s flabbergasting. It really is.


----------



## Damon67

Adieu said:


> How DOES a dealer that only sells Ovation and BC Rich live, anyway?
> 
> Considering that BC Rich is like 3 weeks old born-again....



We don't sell picks and straps and band instruments for little Joey. Most stuff we stock you can't find in stores. We're approached all the time... ESP, Takamine, Diamond, Jackson, Gretsch, etc.. but just not interested. It's a passion thing, never got into it for the money. I deal with brands that I know, love, and have played for decades.

That said...

RBG is the #1 indy dealer on the planet for both of those brands. BCR started producing their Custom Shop 50th Anniversary guitars in January. We've moved more than 50 units for them so far this year. With Ovation, we do nearly as much as the big box guys... literally hundreds of thousands in revenue with that brand.

As for Peavey which you din't mention... as much as I love that brand, it's been a struggle. I don't see them going anywhere but deeper into the pit with Courtland running that company... and I hope they see me say this. That said, if they can turn things around (probably won't happen under current leadership) and start producing USA stuff again, we'll be there to support.


----------



## Hollowway

Damon67 said:


> We don't sell picks and straps and band instruments for little Joey. Most stuff we stock you can't find in stores. We're approached all the time... ESP, Takamine, Diamond, Jackson, Gretsch, etc.. but just not interested. It's a passion thing, never got into it for the money. I deal with brands that I know, love, and have played for decades.
> 
> That said...
> 
> RBG is the #1 indy dealer on the planet for both of those brands. BCR started producing their Custom Shop 50th Anniversary guitars in January. We've moved more than 50 units for them so far this year. With Ovation, we do nearly as much as the big box guys... literally hundreds of thousands in revenue with that brand.
> 
> As for Peavey which you din't mention... as much as I love that brand, it's been a struggle. I don't see them going anywhere but deeper into the pit with Courtland running that company... and I hope they see me say this. That said, if they can turn things around (probably won't happen under current leadership) and start producing USA stuff again, we'll be there to support.



Is there an interesting back story on the name? I've wondered where the "blanket" part comes from.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Them shredzillas really do look nice. 1,500$ nice? Eh knock off 500 and we’ll talk. Keep yer abalone! Plain ol white binding on the neck is fine, but I typically don’t care for the blinged out look.


----------



## Damon67

Hollowway said:


> Is there an interesting back story on the name? I've wondered where the "blanket" part comes from.



Lack of imagination? Other people gave me the name. If you google my username you'll see I've been in guitar forums for a spell, posting pictures of my guitars on a red blanket. People started calling them the 'Red Blanket' pictures. When Ovation asked me to be a dealer, it was the only name I could come up with that didn't seem silly and contrived.


----------



## Hollowway

Damon67 said:


> Lack of imagination? Other people gave me the name. If you google my username you'll see I've been in guitar forums for a spell, posting pictures of my guitars on a red blanket. People started calling them the 'Red Blanket' pictures. When Ovation asked me to be a dealer, it was the only name I could come up with that didn't seem silly and contrived.


Ah, crap I’m an idiot - I never thought about those photos.  But it’s a good name - especially with an organic back story like that. 

Now back on topic - show me pics of the Spalt 8 Floyd on the red blanket, lol


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## MrWulf

Maybe i should hit up BC Rich for a sponsorship. That black Ironbird is calling my name.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm not sure if it's year and years of LTD Deluxes or Schecter Hellraisers desensitizing me to abalone

But those are hot.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

This means that Erik Rutan will be able to buy new BC Rich Ironbirds without having to constantly search the used market. That thought popped in my head and it legit made me happy


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

This means that Erik Rutan will be able to buy new BC Rich Ironbirds without having to constantly search the used market. That thought popped in my head and it legit made me happy


----------



## manu80

abalone on black is ok. on green.....not that much.
but glad to see the ironbird back..in black


----------



## Vostre Roy

I hope that they won't put a thick layer of gloss finish on the neck and keep it natural with a satin finish. And yeah, the abalone isn't too bad on those black, if the specs are more to my taste than the future Legacy model, might actually get one of them abalone binded black Ironbird


----------



## Bdtunn

I don’t mind the abalone on the black or white, but it’s wayyyyyy off on the green!


----------



## Bdtunn

Also in one of the comments from BC Rich they say these will be available with and without the abalone!!!


----------



## Adieu

Bdtunn said:


> Also in one of the comments from BC Rich they say these will be available with and without the abalone!!!



Abalone Delete +$499 or so?


----------



## possumkiller

Adieu said:


> Abalone Delete +$499 or so?


Abalone + $499
Abalone Delete + another $499
So I guess the ones without abalone will be about $2k ish...


----------



## trem licking

waiting till after namm to most likely buy one of these, but will there be cases by then? i see no bc rich hardcases anywhere yet... hoping they are catching up with those soon


----------



## Mathemagician

Just to point out, if the “only” difference between these and the abalone free models is the abalone, then there may not be a price difference at all. Or maybe like $50-100 max. Idk who all is out there hoping for a $900 retail price with Floyd, brand name Pickups, locking tuners, etc in 2020...


----------



## efiltsohg

if I didn't already own a radioactive green guitar that ironbird would be calling to me...


----------



## Albake21

Mathemagician said:


> Just to point out, if the “only” difference between these and the abalone free models is the abalone, then there may not be a price difference at all. Or maybe like $50-100 max. Idk who all is out there hoping for a $900 retail price with Floyd, brand name Pickups, locking tuners, etc in 2020...


I don't think anyone is thinking that, I was expecting just a $100 max difference. I just really don't want the abalone.


----------



## Hollowway

OK, I've never been after those Ironbirds, but damn, those are nice! I wonder if they'll release a 7?


----------



## sirbuh

A proper ironbird is red, or aged white. 
Very exciting to see this project again.


----------



## Mathemagician

sirbuh said:


> A proper ironbird is red, or aged white.
> Very exciting to see this project again.



Artic White. Aged white only belongs on themed grandpas-guitars.


----------



## sirbuh

Mathemagician said:


> Artic White. Aged white only belongs on themed grandpas-guitars.



Let papa enjoy his 80's ironbird.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Aged white is great. So much less cold and harsh against black fretboard and hardware than pure white.


----------



## spudmunkey

How about it starts bright white, then can age to aged white. Then everybody/nobody is happy.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> How about it starts bright white, then can age to aged white. Then everybody/nobody is happy.



I'd be all for non-UV stabilized finishes. 

I just don't think any large scale production facility would even have them on hand anymore.


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> Aged white is great. So much less cold and harsh against black fretboard and hardware than pure white.



The cold harshness makes the tech/death/thrash/black metal sound better.


----------



## Descent

Just looked at the prices as they came out at Guitar Center, $1.5k, $1.4, they're insane, right? For a Korean made plank, that's crazy. Just bought a US made guitar for $800, these prices are ridiculous.


----------



## sirbuh

Descent said:


> Just looked at the prices as they came out at Guitar Center, $1.5k, $1.4, they're insane, right? For a Korean made plank, that's crazy. Just bought a US made guitar for $800, these prices are ridiculous.



That is insane...800$ for a us made guitar? Just bought a MIM guitar for 450$, these prices are ridiculous. 

(more serious note, fed sees no signs of inflation)


----------



## Descent

sirbuh said:


> That is insane...800$ for a us made guitar? Just bought a MIM guitar for 450$, these prices are ridiculous.
> 
> (more serious note, fed sees no signs of inflation)


Sure it's a low end Gibson, but still, it'll retain its value and plays very good. Also lots of US guitars at these BCRich prices. If they were in the $800 range I'd seriously consider some of these but as they are, definitely pricey and surely there are many better alternatives in that price range for sure.


----------



## Vyn

Descent said:


> Just looked at the prices as they came out at Guitar Center, $1.5k, $1.4, they're insane, right? For a Korean made plank, that's crazy. Just bought a US made guitar for $800, these prices are ridiculous.



Those prices sound correct and actually quite reasonable


----------



## trem licking

While I'd like a cheaper price on anything, I don't think these are too out of line. Neck through, locking tuners, name brand pickups, strap locks and blinged out... They are only slightly more expensive than blinged out schecters. Would be nice to include the hardcase, but I guess that would be the same as shaving off a couple hundred bucks


----------



## Hollowway

Descent said:


> Just looked at the prices as they came out at Guitar Center, $1.5k, $1.4, they're insane, right? For a Korean made plank, that's crazy. Just bought a US made guitar for $800, these prices are ridiculous.


Where did you find a US guitar for $800? That’s unheard of.


----------



## Adieu

Hollowway said:


> Where did you find a US guitar for $800? That’s unheard of.



Used American strat, all day every day? Or two used Carvins for that price

also, craptastic new unfinished low end Gibsons, new, on special pretty regularly?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I used to think it was pretty cool Gibson made sub-$1000 guitars.

...Then I tried some. 

Also for like the 23rd time, Korean labor is just getting expensive. At least places like WMI. Also SK isn't some fucking suffering 3rd world country.


----------



## Damon67

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Them shredzillas really do look nice. 1,500$ nice? Eh knock off 500 and we’ll talk. Keep yer abalone! Plain ol white binding on the neck is fine, but I typically don’t care for the blinged out look.





Hollowway said:


> Ah, crap I’m an idiot - I never thought about those photos.  But it’s a good name - especially with an organic back story like that.
> 
> Now back on topic - show me pics of the Spalt 8 Floyd on the red blanket, lol



Next week. Haven't got one of the production ones in yet


----------



## Hollowway

Adieu said:


> Used American strat, all day every day? Or two used Carvins for that price
> 
> also, craptastic new unfinished low end Gibsons, new, on special pretty regularly?


Oh, was he talking about a used guitar? That’s hardly newsworthy.  One could always wait until next year and pick up one of these MIK for cheaper.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## sirbuh

why oh why cant these be red?


----------



## spudmunkey

The headstock of this black one says USA, so it's still not a production unit.


----------



## cardinal

MaxOfMetal said:


> I'd be all for non-UV stabilized finishes.
> 
> I just don't think any large scale production facility would even have them on hand anymore.



Completely different price bracket, but when I ordered a white custom Schecter, they asked to clarify if I wanted the finish to stay white or to age over time to off-white. Love their attention to detail.


----------



## mlp187

Hollowway said:


> Where did you find a US guitar for $800? That’s unheard of.


Different person, but I got my tribute sg from GC for $750.00. It is the only gibson i've ever thought good enough to bring home. Still disappointed in almost all others every time I go to GC, so I feel really lucky!


----------



## Hollowway

mlp187 said:


> Different person, but I got my tribute sg from GC for $750.00. It is the only gibson i've ever thought good enough to bring home. Still disappointed in almost all others every time I go to GC, so I feel really lucky!


Wow, I had no idea they were selling for that price. I've never owned a Gibson, but SGs are cool, so I'd be down to check one out. (But in person first, based on your experience!)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Wow, I had no idea they were selling for that price. I've never owned a Gibson, but SGs are cool, so I'd be down to check one out. (But in person first, based on your experience!)



Gibson has maintained options below $1k for nearly a decade now. They are to be expected, somewhat hit or miss and with basic specs, but they're typically solid. They're all PLEK'd and the hardware/electronics are identical to much more expensive models.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

The Gunslinger is coming back....in case no one saw the Instagram post


----------



## spudmunkey

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> The Gunslinger is coming back....in case no one saw the Instagram post


Isnt that just the shredzilla prototype? Or was there something elae?


----------



## Mathemagician

The 22 fret shredzilla/soloist/etc body.


----------



## nedheftyfunk

Hollowway said:


> Wow, I had no idea they were selling for that price. I've never owned a Gibson, but SGs are cool, so I'd be down to check one out. (But in person first, based on your experience!)



A couple of years after they're made, NOS Gibson seem to be blown out through some of the bigger online retailers. In the EU, I've seen pretty big discounts at both Thomann and music-store.de. I got one of these a couple of years ago for 499 USD from Sam Ash in the US:

http://legacy.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2015/USA/Les-Paul-CM-2015.aspx

They were only 8-900 USD at full price and, as Max indicated, it is nothing like one of their more expensive guitars, but it is solid. The bridge feels like it's made of tin, but, other than that, it sounds and plays great, and I really like it for what it is. They also have discounts on more expensive guitars too. You might remember Pondman getting a 7 string LP for super cheap that way, nearly three years after it was made, and I have a 2015 LP standard I bought in 2018 from a similar sale. Worth keeping an eye out for, if you want a new Gibson... which not everyone does.


----------



## Cynicanal

TBH the cheaper Gibsons I've played have typically been blown away by recent Indo Epiphones, much less WMI MIK stuff.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Cynicanal said:


> TBH the cheaper Gibsons I've played have typically been blown away by recent Indo Epiphones, much less WMI MIK stuff.



That's not really surprising. 

Epiphone has been doing great for quite some time. It got a bad reputation when they switched from Japan to China (obviously), but once the facility got over the usual supply chain teething, and since incorporating more mature OEM partners, they've been putting out genuinely good guitars. Obviously subject to the usual hits and misses of stuff in the same price range. 

Really, the sub-$1k Gibson stuff is aimed at accomplishing a few things:

1) Insert a price ladder that reflects Standard series as not "the bottom". 

2) Compete with USA offerings from FMIC within the same budget. 

3) Draw younger players to Gibson early on. 

They'll never be able to compete on price with stuff built abroad, at least while remaining profitable, and I don't see Gibson subsidizing the cost based simply on the reasons above. 

I look at them as solid mod platforms. The timbers are usually nice (typically only one or two piece bodies, nice boards, good necks) they just need a good setup and maybe a pickup or hardware swap to your favorite pieces.


----------



## guitaardvark

Not to go too off topic, but this is the only place that I know of where I can find BC Rich fans.

For Christmas, I want to rewire my brother's Bronze Series Warlock. It's his favorite guitar and after 10+ years, the electronics have crapped out. He has it with him about 300 miles away, so I can't look at it to see what kind of parts it needs. Do they use long/short pots, and are they split or solid?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

guitaardvark said:


> Not to go too off topic, but this is the only place that I know of where I can find BC Rich fans.
> 
> For Christmas, I want to rewire my brother's Bronze Series Warlock. It's his favorite guitar and after 10+ years, the electronics have crapped out. He has it with him about 300 miles away, so I can't look at it to see what kind of parts it needs. Do they use long/short pots, and are they split or solid?



The ones I worked on ages ago were short shaft and the ribbed style split.


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Can't you use long shaft pots regardless? (you just have to put a second nut on it to prevent it from sticking out too far.) I wish I had my bronze warlock on me so I could let you know, but I know the top isn't super thick like a les paul with the carved top. I'd say the warlock is probably like a quarter inch thick of wood where the pot goes through, but it's been a while since I've been in the back of mine so I could be wrong. I do know that I had one of those really tall coil split push/pull pots in it, so clearance shouldn't be an issue.

I miss that guitar and might snag the body/neck the next time I'm up in Rhode Island to visit my parents.

edit: I'm 90% certain short shaft should work.


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> short shaft and the ribbed style


----------



## guitaardvark

MaxOfMetal said:


> The ones I worked on ages ago were short shaft and the ribbed style split.


Thanks!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

guitaardvark said:


> Not to go too off topic, but this is the only place that I know of where I can find BC Rich fans.
> 
> For Christmas, I want to rewire my brother's Bronze Series Warlock. It's his favorite guitar and after 10+ years, the electronics have crapped out. He has it with him about 300 miles away, so I can't look at it to see what kind of parts it needs. Do they use long/short pots, and are they split or solid?


just contact your brother and get him to send you pics of the cavity/pots...


----------



## guitaardvark

KnightBrolaire said:


> just contact your brother and get him to send you pics of the cavity/pots...


He'd know I was up to something and I figured it was just easier to ask here than make something up. Gotta keep it a surprise!


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## manu80

I’m already missing black lol !


----------



## Adieu

nedheftyfunk said:


> A couple of years after they're made, NOS Gibson seem to be blown out through some of the bigger online retailers. In the EU, I've seen pretty big discounts at both Thomann and music-store.de. I got one of these a couple of years ago for 499 USD from Sam Ash in the US:
> 
> http://legacy.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2015/USA/Les-Paul-CM-2015.aspx
> 
> They were only 8-900 USD at full price and, as Max indicated, it is nothing like one of their more expensive guitars, but it is solid. The bridge feels like it's made of tin, but, other than that, it sounds and plays great, and I really like it for what it is. They also have discounts on more expensive guitars too. You might remember Pondman getting a 7 string LP for super cheap that way, nearly three years after it was made, and I have a 2015 LP standard I bought in 2018 from a similar sale. Worth keeping an eye out for, if you want a new Gibson... which not everyone does.



Damn

Me kinda likey. The guitar AND the detailed new site where they admit where exactly and what corners they cut on each instrument


----------



## sirbuh

spudmunkey said:


> *cut pic of mtn dew xtreme ironbird*


ffs RED just come on...


----------



## Randy

Re: Gibson, not sure it's relevant to the current state of things but I've worked on a few Studios over the last year. All of them for faulty/failing electronics, which was surprising to me since the circuit board setup seems like it would be LESS prone to wear and they've all looked pretty clean, which would seem to indicate the quality of the components themselves are suspect.

Fit and finishwise, lots of noticeable sanding scratches and some sharp frets but overall, pretty good. Notably pretty good playing (no flat or lifting frets, decent nut, etc.), good tone pieces of wood. If I was the type of guy looking to get a guitar and wanting something no-nonsense that was going to hold some value, I'd definitely consider one of these $800 LPs/SGs over the ocean of goofy Ibanezes or these $1400 BCRs.


----------



## stevexc

Randy said:


> Re: Gibson, not sure it's relevant to the current state of things but I've worked on a few Studios over the last year. All of them for faulty/failing electronics, which was surprising to me since the circuit board setup seems like it would be LESS prone to wear and they've all looked pretty clean, which would seem to indicate the quality of the components themselves are suspect.
> 
> Fit and finishwise, lots of noticeable sanding scratches and some sharp frets but overall, pretty good. Notably pretty good playing (no flat or lifting frets, decent nut, etc.), good tone pieces of wood. If I was the type of guy looking to get a guitar and wanting something no-nonsense that was going to hold some value, I'd definitely consider one of these $800 LPs/SGs over the ocean of goofy Ibanezes or these $1400 BCRs.



As an owner of an $800 Tribute LP (and that's CAD, too!) I'd agree... mine plays -perfect-. Not exactly the specs SSO would generally go for though.


----------



## Randy

Schecter, BCR, Ibanez, etc. seemingly not getting that there's a wide gulf between flat black with a fixed bridge and fanned fret abalone festooned translucent bloody toilet bowl barf burst with an Evertune.


----------



## Randy

I'm also fully aware that 60% of SSO reads that comment and says "Wait, fanned evertune? Pics? Links?!"


----------



## Descent

Randy said:


> Re: Gibson, not sure it's relevant to the current state of things but I've worked on a few Studios over the last year. All of them for faulty/failing electronics, which was surprising to me since the circuit board setup seems like it would be LESS prone to wear and they've all looked pretty clean, which would seem to indicate the quality of the components themselves are suspect.
> 
> Fit and finishwise, lots of noticeable sanding scratches and some sharp frets but overall, pretty good. Notably pretty good playing (no flat or lifting frets, decent nut, etc.), good tone pieces of wood. If I was the type of guy looking to get a guitar and wanting something no-nonsense that was going to hold some value, I'd definitely consider one of these $800 LPs/SGs over the ocean of goofy Ibanezes or these $1400 BCRs.




So Gibson also switched electronics to some kind of board soldered crap? Ouch...that'll make me gut the whole thing on my Firebird Studio when it comes time to fix something. Still @ $800 great value US guitar, plays like a charm and is super fast. Recorded most of the leads on my upcoming album with it as I liked it so much.


----------



## xzacx

Randy said:


> I'm also fully aware that 60% of SSO reads that comment and says "Wait, fanned evertune? Pics? Links?!"



But only if it also has stainless steel frets.


----------



## spudmunkey

About the color of the ironbird:

"Some of you kept commenting about having this color on the Ironbird. So we did it."


----------



## gunshow86de

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75537



I'm calling the police.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Re: Gibson, not sure it's relevant to the current state of things but I've worked on a few Studios over the last year. All of them for faulty/failing electronics, which was surprising to me since the circuit board setup seems like it would be LESS prone to wear and they've all looked pretty clean, which would seem to indicate the quality of the components themselves are suspect.
> 
> Fit and finishwise, lots of noticeable sanding scratches and some sharp frets but overall, pretty good. Notably pretty good playing (no flat or lifting frets, decent nut, etc.), good tone pieces of wood. If I was the type of guy looking to get a guitar and wanting something no-nonsense that was going to hold some value, I'd definitely consider one of these $800 LPs/SGs over the ocean of goofy Ibanezes or these $1400 BCRs.



It really depends on who was assembling electronics that day. 

The actual components on those boards are quality (custom Bourns pots, custom brand name caps), but they're just not put together great sometimes. 



Descent said:


> So Gibson also switched electronics to some kind of board soldered crap? Ouch...that'll make me gut the whole thing on my Firebird Studio when it comes time to fix something. Still @ $800 great value US guitar, plays like a charm and is super fast. Recorded most of the leads on my upcoming album with it as I liked it so much.



They started using the PCBs in early 2008. If you've played a Gibson in the last decade that wasn't VOS, it more than likely had them.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Randy

Randy said:


> Terrible business model. I'm rewinding to all of us lusting over a 7-string Agile Strat, brow beating Kurt into building them and I think I remember seeing one NGD on here. Same thing with the headless.
> 
> If they're going to chase after every shape and spec they get fed to them on IG, and still price these over $1400, they're going to sell, like, three guitars.





Randy said:


> Schecter, BCR, Ibanez, etc. seemingly not getting that there's a wide gulf between flat black with a fixed bridge and fanned fret abalone festooned translucent bloody toilet bowl barf burst with an Evertune.



Bruh...


----------



## spudmunkey

Notice they didn't say "asking for"...just 'commenting on'. Maybe they were all complaint comments, and they are just trolling.


----------



## Adieu

Monster Energyburst


----------



## Randy

spudmunkey said:


> Notice they didn't say "asking for"...just 'commenting on'. Maybe they were all complaint comments, and they are just trolling.



I'll believe it when I see the pizza inlay.


----------



## Randy

'Your Boss Definitely Won't Know It's Antifreeze'-Burst


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## MaxOfMetal

Abalone is the tribal of purfling. 

The Bronze series didn't ruin BCR, it was having everything Bronze quality regardless of series or price that did.


----------



## Randy

Enjoy bankruptcy!


----------



## Randy

Where are the MIA being built?


----------



## Hollowway

I gotta say, I like their social media commenting. It’s like they took lessons from the Wendy’s person.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Where are the MIA being built?



As far as I know it's still the same shop that's been going for some years now out of Fontana, California. It used to be out of Hebron, Kentucky till around 2013 I think.


----------



## Damagedjustice

In fact more affordable series would be fine


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Damagedjustice said:


> In fact more affordable series would be fine



I agree. 

To me $1500 is real guitar money, but ~$600, that's "fun why not" guitar money. 

I'd buy a cheapo goofy shape to have some fun with.

But, $1500 buys a BUNCH of guitar. Heck, I got my Suhr C6 for $1600.


----------



## spudmunkey

Damagedjustice said:


> In fact more affordable series would be fine



Once they can prove that they can actually make a good guitar that isn't from their custom shop. Then go ahead. But what they need most are positive reviews, and those are less of a "sure thing" when chasing the lower price. Lower price also means lower margin, and you can only make that up with higher volume.


----------



## Merrekof

Has anyone actually bought one of these? All I see is instagram photo's and one or two youtube video's..


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

BCR makes cheap 600 dollar guitars
Guitar forum geeks : "Too shitty! No like! Better spec! No good! Want more! No buy!"


BCR makes premium guitars with all the bells and whistles, which comes with a higher price point
Guitar forum geeks: "Too high money! I poor! More cheap! No buy!"


The reviews I see have all been positive. Considering the last Widow bass was around the 600 dollar mark if I recall, it's a bit of a shock to see the new ones are twice the price. Would I prefer them cheaper? Obviously. Am I gonna buy the new Widow because they released it with better quality? Hell yes.

The price isn't astronomical. It's on the somewhat higher end but I definitely think it's worth it.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> BCR makes cheap 600 dollar guitars
> Guitar forum geeks : "Too shitty! No like! Better spec! No good! Want more! No buy!"
> 
> 
> BCR makes premium guitars with all the bells and whistles, which comes with a higher price point
> Guitar forum geeks: "Too high money! I poor! More cheap! No buy!"
> 
> 
> The reviews I see have all been positive. Considering the last Widow bass was around the 600 dollar mark if I recall, it's a bit of a shock to see the new ones are twice the price. Would I prefer them cheaper? Obviously. Am I gonna buy the new Widow because they released it with better quality? Hell yes.
> 
> The price isn't astronomical. It's on the somewhat higher end but I definitely think it's worth it.



“premium”


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> “premium”



They are definitely better quality than the BCRs of before.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> They are definitely better quality than the BCRs of before.



If that's the standard for premium guitars, then I have a few premium kit guitars.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Chokey Chicken said:


> If that's the standard for premium guitars, then I have a few premium kit guitars.



Have you seen the BCRs of the past? This new line is better spec'd than anything else they've done.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> They are definitely better quality than the BCRs of before.



What have you played and what are you comparing it to exactly?



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> This new line is better spec'd than anything else they've done.



That's debatable.


----------



## possumkiller

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Have you seen the BCRs of the past? This new line is better spec'd than anything else they've done.


How better spec'd? 

My ASM Pro was neck through with EMGs Floyd Rose, ebony fretboard, and full binding was MiK and very well spec'd.

The Jr V NJ Deluxe was the same but with full pearloid purfling. They had Warlocks and some other junk in the same series. 

If by better spec'd you mean toilet burl veneers, kill button, and the odd evertune, they can keep them.

I don't get the hate on the Bronze Warlocks either. My friend had one from the very first run in like 99 or 00 as the first guitar he bought for himself (his first guitar was a squier telecaster that he shared with his step dad as a backup for his strat in his country band) and it kicked ass. The guy put a DD in the bridge and some sperzels on it and still has it.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> What have you played and what are you comparing it to exactly?
> 
> 
> 
> That's debatable.



As a fan of weird shapes I've played a bunch of BCRs over the years. Personally I don't think their past models were total shit despite everyone hopping on the bandwagon. Granted some, the lower models mainly, weren't all that amazing BUT they weren't terrible.


----------



## Zado

So at the end of the day it's another flashy finish - abalone full throttle - pointy metal guitar catalog. Ehw.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

And the fact of the matter is..they changed direction because everyone bitched about how low level the guitars were. So they updated their line and of course guitar forums still whine...many of those people being the same ones who shit all over the brand because they did something other than an Ibanez super strat.

Places like this, the company can't win unless they start making custom guitars for free.

The new line looks great, has had great reviews, isn't really terribly expensive unless you're on a shoestring budget, and will more than likely appeal to fans of the brand who have been waiting for a comeback. Personally I'm impressed and I'm looking forward to seeing what else they do. It's a big step in the right direction and I plan on buying one, if nothing else to support the move. I guess if nothing else, the used market in a couple years is gonna be pretty damn lit when the new BCRs get into that realm.


----------



## Zado

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> o they updated their line and of course guitar forums still whine.


 
Players complain because abalone looked cool for 2 weeks in 90es.


----------



## trem licking

The fact that they made me want one is pretty damn impressive, I'd say. Would never give BC the time of day till now


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Zado said:


> Players complain because abalone looked cool for 2 weeks in 90es.



If a shape I really loved came with all the specs and whatnot I wanted from a company I thought I'd never hear from again and it's downside was abalone...I'd buy it. A line of sparkle isn't a big enough deal for me to bail on a guitar I would otherwise be all over.

The widows this year are flat top...I prefer the beveled look of the WMD Widows. I'd also prefer a PJ style combo instead of the dual P pickups...still buying one.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Have you seen the BCRs of the past? This new line is better spec'd than anything else they've done.



Yes, I've owned maybe 4 or 5. They were bad, mostly. 

You said the new ones were premium because they were better than the old ones. My statement simply means that that's a pretty low bar, since I've played shitty kit guitars that were better than old bcr. 

I'm curious how many new ones you've played to say they're definitively better than old ones. Even out of the five old ones I played, half of them were actually nice playing guitars, so a few nice ones hardly means they've stepped up. 

I like the looks of some of these guitars, but why white knight for something that hasn't really been proven yet?


----------



## Randy

These are in dealers hands now, right? Where are all the NGDs? We were drowning in Strandberg Bodens at this point.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> As a fan of weird shapes I've played a bunch of BCRs over the years. Personally I don't think their past models were total shit despite everyone hopping on the bandwagon. Granted some, the lower models mainly, weren't all that amazing BUT they weren't terrible.



What have you played of these new "premium" BCRs?



Randy said:


> These are in dealers hands now, right? Where are all the NGDs? We were drowning in Strandberg Bodens at this point.



More like dealer.


----------



## trem licking

Randy said:


> These are in dealers hands now, right? Where are all the NGDs? We were drowning in Strandberg Bodens at this point.


They are still barely arriving. No hard cases to be seen. I'm buying mine after namm, ya know... Just in case. Not counting on seeing any 8 string Floyd guitars from anyone else so it's most likely gonna happen


----------



## Damagedjustice

Most brands have decent guitar lines in 500 - 900 bucks range - keep the flagship - premium line and also create an affordable series for the ones who want to give a shot and try- not mentioning 200 - 300 $ cheapos


----------



## Viginez

give them some time. it can't be everything perfect from the start.


----------



## Randy

Viginez said:


> give them some time. it can't be everything perfect from the start.



Right, so proclamations like saying they won't do MIC or that they bought the brand to make sure there's "never going to be another Bronze line" are also premature.


----------



## bostjan

Randy said:


> These are in dealers hands now, right? Where are all the NGDs? We were drowning in Strandberg Bodens at this point.


So does not having one mean I can love it or hate it? I'm confused.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bostjan said:


> So does not having one mean I can love it or hate it? I'm confused.



You can only hate them if you buy a new one, but if you have an old one you like you have to love them, unless you have an old one you hate, then you have to clap three time and spin in circles. I don't know.


----------



## Mathemagician

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75551



Well now we know why Kerry King left.


----------



## manu80

lol. Yeah release some good stuff, make a buzz again, then do some MIC imports etc...


----------



## Viginez

Mathemagician said:


> Well now we know why Kerry King left.


more like a low blow after he left them


----------



## Mathemagician

Is finally taking a stance angainst early ‘00’s “tribal” art really a “low blow”?


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> What have you played of these new "premium" BCRs?
> .



None...but I'm certainly looking forward to it. Are we attempting to say that unless I've played them I don't know? Is that where we're going?


----------



## Chokey Chicken

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> None...but I'm certainly looking forward to it. Are we attempting to say that unless I've played them I don't know? Is that where we're going?



You can't judge the quality of something you haven't played. You can say they look nice and that you're excited for them, but you can't say they are great because you have no way of knowing.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Chokey Chicken said:


> You can't judge the quality of something you haven't played. You can say they look nice and that you're excited for them, but you can't say they are great because you have no way of knowing.



We're going off specs here. Modern features, less "in house cheapo" parts, more color options, lack of bolt on cheapo options, etc.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I mean, premium parts/specs in a poorly built/set up guitar isn't really a premium guitar imo. 

I doubt they'll be trash, but it's still too early to say definitively.


----------



## efiltsohg

yeah just cram an evertune and fishmans or whatever in there and it's a premium guitar, never mind that this hardware will be 90% forgotten in 2 years


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Chokey Chicken said:


> I mean, premium parts/specs in a poorly built/set up guitar isn't really a premium guitar imo.
> 
> I doubt they'll be trash, but it's still too early to say definitively.



Well in that case we can refer to those who have...and there's been nothing but positive reviews.

So good specs...and good reviews..and BCR clearly trying to make the emphasis on them stepping up their shit this year.


Not to mention if the guitar wins in all categories and needs a proper setup due to shipping, people playing with it in the store, whatever and then after that it's great, well then it IS a good guitar.


----------



## trem licking

You can reasonably expect these to be schecter quality, being that's where they are made. So should be good for the most part


----------



## Randy

Thats fine. And they were previously Schecter quality and sporting Original Floyd Roses and non-garbage finishes for half the price.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Randy said:


> Thats fine. And they were previously Schecter quality and sporting Original Floyd Roses and non-garbage finishes for half the price.



But did y'all buy them, though?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> But did y'all buy them, though?



So we're pretending it was sales and not the implosion and later acquisition of the parent company that brought BCR down? Cool.


----------



## Randy

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> But did y'all buy them, though?



Yeah, I had an Ironbird Limited and it was fucking awesome. Build quality was top notch, you could hang the guitar by the trem arm, come back a week later and it would still be in tune. The Zoltan sig it looks like they modeled the Shredzilla after was also a fucking amazing guitar, neck thru, OFR, quilted top and at least $500 less.


----------



## Viginez

possibly they will test the market and readjust.
i don't think those burl birds will sell good anyway. it's the wrong shape for it.


----------



## Damon67

There's a 'Legacy' Ironbird coming too. Bevels and solid colors.... no abalone purfling.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

They're also releasing a 10-string Bich it looks like.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Randy said:


> Yeah, I had an Ironbird Limited and it was fucking awesome. Build quality was top notch, you could hang the guitar by the trem arm, come back a week later and it would still be in tune. The Zoltan sig it looks like they modeled the Shredzilla after was also a fucking amazing guitar, neck thru, OFR, quilted top and at least $500 less.



The fact is they are going to need something in the old NJ role and price bracket like those around $6-700 and a solid if not flashy workhorse, decent hardware.


----------



## spudmunkey

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> They're also releasing a 10-string *Rich B* it looks like.



FTFY


----------



## Randy

Oh yeah, my impression was that they were leading with the high end of their offerings to create a stir and show BCR can do high-end import and 'current' features, then offer something more affordable and traditional in phase two.

What I wasn't anticipating the initial offering being AS high as it is (I was thinking $1000 base, maybe $1200 on the high) and I wasn't expecting them to poo-poo the low end option before they even know what the market is willing to buy.

I follow them on Instagram and there's very little discussion of the price on there, so 99% of the hype are kids posting far fetched specs and them capitulating, I don't think most of the people posting that stuff even know what these cost or have any intention of buying them, certainly not new and maybe not used either. I wouldn't close the door on any options this early on.


----------



## sirbuh

Damon67 said:


> There's a 'Legacy' Ironbird coming too. Bevels and solid colors.... no abalone purfling.



Any idea on colors?


----------



## ThePIGI King

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> None...but I'm certainly looking forward to it. Are we attempting to say that unless I've played them I don't know? Is that where we're going?



I played three of them. 7 string shredzilla and both stealths.

I thought they were nice, despite being not my spec choice. I wouldn't pay for these what I would pay for a Prestige. The ones I tried I would say were the exact same qaulity wise as my old Hellraiser - an $800 guitar.


----------



## Chiba666

Abalone is going to be a turn off point for me on a good number of their guitars


----------



## spudmunkey

ThePIGI King said:


> I thought they were nice, despite being not my spec choice. I wouldn't pay for these what I would pay for a Prestige. The ones I tried I would say were the exact same qaulity wise as my old Hellraiser - an $800 guitar.



I'm not trying to argue/challenge, but I've got a genuine question: did the bridges compare? I see Hellraisers going for prices anywhere from $839-$1100, all 6-strings, with a trem adding cost. And do we have any indication that there's a 2020 price increase from Schecter than BC Rich (I'd assume anyway) likely already factored into their launch pricing?


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Randy said:


> Oh yeah, my impression was that they were leading with the high end of their offerings to create a stir and show BCR can do high-end import and 'current' features, then offer something more affordable and traditional in phase two.
> 
> What I wasn't anticipating the initial offering being AS high as it is (I was thinking $1000 base, maybe $1200 on the high) and I wasn't expecting them to poo-poo the low end option before they even know what the market is willing to buy.
> 
> I follow them on Instagram and there's very little discussion of the price on there, so 99% of the hype are kids posting far fetched specs and them capitulating, I don't think most of the people posting that stuff even know what these cost or have any intention of buying them, certainly not new and maybe not used either. I wouldn't close the door on any options this early on.



Yea thats what I figured they would do, swing big up front and bring in something tricked out to remind people its not all bad, then bring in something a bit less flashy/workhorse. And I dont think anyone wants to go full bronze, just something around what an NJ was.


----------



## ThePIGI King

spudmunkey said:


> I'm not trying to argue/challenge, but I've got a genuine question: did the bridges compare? I see Hellraisers going for prices anywhere from $839-$1100, all 6-strings, with a trem adding cost. And do we have any indication that there's a 2020 price increase from Schecter than BC Rich (I'd assume anyway) likely already factored into their launch pricing?



I stopped paying attention to Schecter a couple years back, so I dunno on pricing.

My hellraiser was a TOM bridge 6er from 2013 or 2014, brand new was $800 plus tax. The shredzilla I played had a floyd, which felt fine, I'm more subtle with my trem usage than guys like Vai. The stealths both had that strange BCR wrap around bridge (had it on my old BCR Warlock and despised it) and they felt better than the TOM feel wise for me.

So at the end of the day, if I'm a guy in the market for an abalone guitar with a floyd from SK, I'd take the Hellraiser. Now me personally, I only care about a Chuck Stealth and a trem 8 from BCR. Especially since the necks aren't my preference. So as I said earlier, for the 3 I tried, they're good guitars. Nothing was wrong with them. I just wouldn't buy one for the same price as a new Prestige or a used J.custom.


----------



## Vyn

ThePIGI King said:


> I stopped paying attention to Schecter a couple years back, so I dunno on pricing.
> 
> My hellraiser was a TOM bridge 6er from 2013 or 2014, brand new was $800 plus tax. The shredzilla I played had a floyd, which felt fine, I'm more subtle with my trem usage than guys like Vai. The stealths both had that strange BCR wrap around bridge (had it on my old BCR Warlock and despised it) and they felt better than the TOM feel wise for me.
> 
> So at the end of the day, if I'm a guy in the market for an abalone guitar with a floyd from SK, I'd take the Hellraiser. Now me personally, I only care about a Chuck Stealth and a trem 8 from BCR. Especially since the necks aren't my preference. So as I said earlier, for the 3 I tried, they're good guitars. Nothing was wrong with them. I just wouldn't buy one for the same price as a new Prestige or a used J.custom.



It's worth noting that the labour cost of producing a hellraiser at WMI in 13-14 is significantly lower than what something of those specs would be now. Wages have increased significantly in indo/korea


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Vyn said:


> It's worth noting that the labour cost of producing a hellraiser at WMI in 13-14 is significantly lower than what something of those specs would be now. Wages have increased significantly in indo/korea



And FWIW, Schecter is releasing new WMI-made guitars that range from $1200 - $1700 as well.


----------



## Vyn

Issue is that instead of gradually increasing prices, the manufacturers have tried to keep it as low as possible and then done it all in one hit over the last two years. Ibanez is a great example, they've hiked prices bigtime.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Eh, it's all artificial inflation of value. Some purfling and inlay isn't adding that much to the cost when done at scale. 

You can get American and Japanese made guitars (with binding, name brand pickups, 1st tier hardware, etc.) for less and you can't tell me it's cheaper to build guitars in those two countries. 

BCR can charge whatever they feel their guitars are worth. I'm just saying, for me, they're very expensive relative to known quantities. Like I said, they're past the point of a fun whatever purchase for me. So to even consider it, I'd have to know to a certain degree I'm not buying junk. 

Obviously it's a barrier as the four guys with the biggest hard-ons for these in here keep moving the posts on why they haven't bought yet. We've gone from finishes, to scales, to availability, to cases, etc. No one seems to be buying these and it would be silly to not at least consider the price being a factor, again relative to longstanding options available.


----------



## Vyn

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, it's all artificial inflation of value. Some purfling and inlay isn't adding that much to the cost when done at scale.
> 
> You can get American and Japanese made guitars (with binding, name brand pickups, 1st tier hardware, etc.) for less and you can't tell me it's cheaper to build guitars in those two countries.
> 
> BCR can charge whatever they feel their guitars are worth. I'm just saying, for me, they're very expensive relative to known quantities. Like I said, they're past the point of a fun whatever purchase for me. So to even consider it, I'd have to know to a certain degree I'm not buying junk.
> 
> Obviously it's a barrier as the four guys with the biggest hard-ons for these in here keep moving the posts on why they haven't bought yet. We've gone from finishes, to scales, to availability, to cases, etc. No one seems to be buying these and it would be silly to not at least consider the price being a factor, again relative to longstanding options available.



Agree regarding moving the posts, it's probably more price related than people are letting on - it's the reason I haven't gotten one of the 8s (not because I think it's an unreasonable amount of coin, I just don't have the mulla at this point in time).


----------



## Bdtunn

I think sso is now behind the times on the abalone binding hahahah, here’s a mayo for namm 2020.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Bdtunn said:


> View attachment 75581
> 
> 
> I think sso is now behind the times on the abalone binding hahahah, here’s a mayo for namm 2020.



PRS Private Stock drops some abalone bombs too, same with ESP CS. 

The difference being, these are all absolutely exceptional instruments, and typically in very limited quantities.

Abalone isn't the worst thing, it's just chintzy when overused.


----------



## narad

I'm sorry if this is already well-covered, but I had the impression at some point earlier in the thread that these would be USA-made. Now everyone is mentioning WMI and "import". So is it basically Korean-made BC Riches for around $1500, and USA custom shops for $3.5k+?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> So is it basically Korean-made BC Riches for around $1500, and USA custom shops for $3.5k+?



Yes.


----------



## electriceye

Chiba666 said:


> Abalone is going to be a turn off point for me on a good number of their guitars



It was never a feature on their guitars for the first 40 years and shouldn’t be now. No way I’d buy one with that gaudy binding. Leave that to Shecter.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## BusinessMan

MaxOfMetal said:


> PRS Private Stock drops some abalone bombs too, same with ESP CS.
> 
> The difference being, these are all absolutely exceptional instruments, and typically in very limited quantities.
> 
> Abalone isn't the worst thing, it's just chintzy when overused.



SSO Logic: if it’s pricey, custom, and kinda maybe rare, abalone is A-OK.
If it’s on prod guitars: THEY’RE TERRIBLE FOR PUTTING IT ON THE GUITARS

Lol


----------



## MaxOfMetal

BusinessMan said:


> SSO Logic: if it’s pricey, custom, and kinda maybe rare, abalone is A-OK.
> If it’s on prod guitars: THEY’RE TERRIBLE FOR PUTTING IT ON THE GUITARS
> 
> Lol



I'd just be willing to put up with something like purfling on a significantly better guitar. Especially if that feature I'm not totally into is done more tastefully. 

If you can't see the difference there, I don't know what to tell you.


----------



## narad

Just so the vocal majority here doesn't get too overwhelming, I feel like I should say this: I like the abalone on almost all of these models. I usually don't think abalone is cool, but these designs remind me of a time when I thought it was (and gawked at the seasonal Carvin catalog that came in the mail, with those abalone block inlay options that I really did consider a premium feature).


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> Just so the vocal majority here doesn't get too overwhelming, I feel like I should say this: I like the abalone on almost all of these models. I usually don't think abalone is cool, but these designs remind me of a time when I thought it was (and gawked at the seasonal Carvin catalog that came in the mail, with those abalone block inlay options that I really did consider a premium feature).



I actually really like abalone blocks. I used to bug Carvin a few times a year to let me get them on maple. No dice. 

How handsome are these:


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> I actually really like abalone blocks. I used to bug Carvin a few times a year to let me get them on maple. No dice.
> 
> How handsome are these:



This is pretty much my dream guitar circa 1995:


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> This is pretty much my dream guitar circa 1995:



I had almost that exact guitar, but natural with a trem. Blocks and everything. Maybe around 02'/03'. I'll always have a soft spot for those old DC models.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> I actually really like abalone blocks. I used to bug Carvin a few times a year to let me get them on maple. No dice.



Dont look now...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> Dont look now...
> View attachment 75593
> View attachment 75594



I wanted them on an XB76 and ICON5. If only. 

They came pretty close around 2005, but would only do it on an LB for some reason. I lost interest.


----------



## Damon67

Anyone want a 25.5" scale JrV with a Floyd?


----------



## Chiba666

Really promising guitar, ruined by abalone binding. In all fairness really waiting for a Chuck Stealth and a non blinged out Ironbird


----------



## Seabeast2000

narad said:


> Just so the vocal majority here doesn't get too overwhelming, I feel like I should say this: I like the abalone on almost all of these models. .


Rude.


----------



## electriceye

Abalone blocks or dot inlays are fine. No one was arguing that. It’s the atrocious binding that’s the issue. (PS: it looks like shit on any guitar, even a $10k PRS PS)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

electriceye said:


> Abalone blocks or dot inlays are fine. No one was arguing that. It’s the atrocious binding that’s the issue. (PS: it looks like shit on any guitar, even a $10k PRS PS)



I don't think binding is so bad, it's this "outline" style purfling that I can't stand.


----------



## gunch

Wonder if Terrance Hobbes will drop Legator and come back to BCR if he hasn’t already or he’s still rocking that custom made warlock in that most recent playthrough video

@Damon67 that V is mega clean


----------



## gunshow86de

New FFDP video.

Nu-metal whisper rapping - Check
Brass Knuckles Microphone - Check
Monster Logos - Check
CBD Oil - Check
Punisher skulls - Check
Rattlensnake logo that is also an infinity symbol and also an Ouroboros - Check



EDIT: Spotted a rattlesnake ouroboros, they're like intelle


----------



## pastanator

ok i was kinda into the abalone at first but this just absurd.


----------



## MrWulf

The abalone is photoshop in, it looked like.

Also my inner 20 years old love these purfing. If anyone want something with no purfing theres about a million other option on the market. I'll buy one of these when i get the chance. Probably an Ironbird or a Shredzilla 7.


----------



## Randy

pastanator said:


> ok i was kinda into the abalone at first but this just absurd.



NAMM 2021: Himalayan Salt Crystal Shredzilla 8


----------



## Seabeast2000

Randy said:


> NAMM 2021: Himalayan Salt Crystal Shredzilla 8


With essential oiled fretboard


----------



## Albake21

I'm sure I'm in a very small minority here, but a salt crystal top would be cool as hell.


----------



## manu80

red V with black binding. No abalone. you got my money


----------



## Viginez

i think it's miscalculation by them that more people like abalone covered guitars than ones w/out.
they wrongly consider it an extra that everyone will like and go "wow look at this, it's a must have with that cool abalone"...
imo it's the opposite. just use it for special runs or something.


----------



## spudmunkey

Their factory much have worked out a way to do it super quickly and inexpensively, so that way they can increase the price. This coule either a) make the guitar more profitable if they are marking up that "upgrade" at a higher margin than the guitar itself just to make more money ("Hey, we figured out how to do this upgrade for $30, but found out that we can charge an extra $170 for it! *cha-ching*!") or b) since it's their first run, adding an inexpensive upgrade that they can charge more might actually be subsidising the guitar itself, to help them get things in order so that way they can actually produce the lower-tier models at a lower price, with an appropaiate, sustainable GP. 

Maybe...this is all rationalization from a brain that has been told it *too* rational.


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

I've found that I'm getting used to the abalone, but only under specific circumstances. On the sharp shapes it works better than on, let's say, Schecters, in their pre-heyday. I like it on the JrV, I don't particularly like it on the shredzilla, and I'm god awfully thankful for them not to have gone with abalone on the Stealth models. Too bad they're still too expensive for Asian made guitars (as far as I know by now).


----------



## MrWulf

Viginez said:


> i think it's miscalculation by them that more people like abalone covered guitars than ones w/out.
> they wrongly consider it an extra that everyone will like and go "wow look at this, it's a must have with that cool abalone"...
> imo it's the opposite. just use it for special runs or something.



I dont think this forum is a good representation of the public guitar buying crowd.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

MrWulf said:


> I dont think this forum is a good representation of the public guitar buying crowd.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hawt. If these are 25.5: I will seriously be checking out the satin black one.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I have also purchased a shredzilla from my friend @Damon67 so it should be here by next week.

I will let you guys know how it holds up


----------



## MrWulf

IRONBIRD 7 PLEASE


----------



## Edika

Those Ironbirds from a distance look really good actually. The color options are killer! The abalone purfling works with designs that have bigger body as it doesn't take away from the size. The JrV deluxe I used to own just seemed tiny and the new high spec versions look small too. However I'd rather have an Ironbird with no abalone so I'll wait for the second wave.


----------



## manu80

Well usually not on a hate mode but purple or green , abalone and chome pu cover ? Doesnt match together at all.....


----------



## NewCultKing

That purple bird looks HAWT!


----------



## spudmunkey

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hawt. If these are 25.5: I will seriously be checking out the satin black one.



5, 3, 6, 4, 2, 1.


----------



## uni777

I'll wait for the beveled version and buy a white one eventough i prefer the Mk-1 shape. That is, if they become avaliable in Europe. One more Ironbird is always a good thing.



JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hawt. If these are 25.5: I will seriously be checking out the satin black one.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

spudmunkey said:


> 5, 3, 6, 4, 2, 1.


Okay... but is that worst to first or beast to least?


----------



## spudmunkey

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Okay... but is that worst to first or beast to least?


 #1 = #1


----------



## bostjan

Why the photoshopped crap in the photo?!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

bostjan said:


> Why the photoshopped crap in the photo?!



It makes more sense with the caption that's omitted. That pic is grabbed from Instagram.


----------



## Hollowway

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I have also purchased a shredzilla from my friend @Damon67 so it should be here by next week.
> 
> I will let you guys know how it holds up



How many strings?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hollowway said:


> How many strings?



6. I haven't owned a 7 yet, but if these shredzillas are great and all.


----------



## Aliascent

The white one is exactly what I was looking for. Just need to wait until they show up in my country.


----------



## electriceye

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Hawt. If these are 25.5: I will seriously be checking out the satin black one.



The abalone makes every single one of those look atrocious.


----------



## gunshow86de

I wanted to do like a reverse blacked.com meme thing, but lost interest about half way through. Anyways, you guys get the idea...


----------



## Seabeast2000

I'd gladly own a mollusk festooned ironbird.


----------



## MrWulf

Please BC Rich make an Ironbird 7 in black.


----------



## spudmunkey

The906 said:


> I'd gladly own a mollusk festooned ironbird.



Why, proclaiming one's affinity for festoonery in these parts is liable to find oneself in a match of pugilism/fisticuffs!


----------



## Randy

bostjan said:


> Why the photoshopped crap in the photo?!



#pizzagate


----------



## gunshow86de

bostjan said:


> Why the photoshopped crap in the photo?!





Randy said:


> #pizzagate



I think it's supposed to be things you find in a couch (loose change, half eaten pizza), or the guys from FFDP are using BC Rich as a front for an international child sex-trafficking ring that caters to elites. Could be either really, who's to say?  Does make that damaged shipping container much more sinister.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

It certainly explains why they're reissuing the Tripp Eisen signature model.


----------



## Loomer

So... Wait... I haven't been following this thread. Is the company legit owned by someone from FFDP now? Or is that just a joke referring to how their social media is literally just that band and nothing else?


----------



## spudmunkey

Loomer said:


> So... Wait... I haven't been following this thread. Is the company legit owned by someone from FFDP now? Or is that just a joke referring to how their social media is literally just that band and nothing else?



Zoltan(or whatever is name is) from FFDP seems to have been a primary (or at least a headlining) investor in the re-launch.


----------



## Loomer

spudmunkey said:


> Zoltan(or whatever is name is) from FFDP seems to have been a primary (or at least a headlining) investor in the re-launch.



Well, then he just one-upped himself and his apparently giant ego quite considerably from "just" always wearing his own band's merch all the time to literally buying a guitar company and getting it to promote himself all the time with no attention given to anyone else.. I almost find it amusing, to be honest. It's definitely on brand for his whole public persona.

But ok. If he's on board (no pun intended) in that sense, the company is not getting any money from me. Everyone gets to decide for themselves where they draw the line, vis a vis the ol' "vote with your dollar", and I draw mine here. It is fun enough to laugh at how goofy and corny FFDP are and so on, but scratch away at the Monster logo stickers and underneath you'll find some stuff I personally cannot in good conscience support.


----------



## bostjan

Guess I'm glad I'm ignorant to all things FFDP (5FDP?).



Randy said:


> #pizzagate



I assumed that was a joke, but now I can't be sure. I don't have Instagram, so I can't see the original post.


----------



## Mathemagician

The abalone on those Ironbirds looks best on the chlorineburst, and natural burst ones. Then the black and white. And then just not good on the purple and greens. And the purple and greens would otherwise be the MOST fun ones of all.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MaxOfMetal said:


> It certainly explains why they're reissuing the Tripp Eisen signature model.


Uh, who?


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Uh, who?



Got fired from static x/jailed for items involving a 13 year old girl if memory serves.


----------



## spudmunkey

Mathemagician said:


> The abalone on those Ironbirds looks best on the chlorineburst, and natural burst ones. Then the black and white. And then just not good on the purple and greens. And the purple and greens would otherwise be the MOST fun ones of all.



In my head, I think the green and purple look worst, beacuse the abalone they are using is too "real". I don't actually know if it's real, or if it's fake and meant to look very real. I think it would look cool if it was something non-trational and more vibrant. Green and purple are colors found in abalone, just not that vibrant under normal lighting, so it makes the purfling look muddy. If ther guitars were much lighter pastels, it might actually work better with the natural-looking abalone.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> In my head, I think the green and purple look worst, beacuse the abalone they are using is too "real". I don't actually know if it's real, or if it's fake and meant to look very real. I think it would look cool if it was something non-trational and more vibrant. Green and purple are colors found in abalone, just not that vibrant under normal lighting, so it makes the purfling look muddy. If ther guitars were much lighter pastels, it might actually work better with the natural-looking abalone.



I mean I think some of the abalone is just kinda ridiculous IMO. Black binding would've fit the bill


----------



## xzacx

bostjan said:


> Guess I'm glad I'm ignorant to all things FFDP (5FDP?).



This thread was my first time ever even hearing of them.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

xzacx said:


> This thread was my first time ever even hearing of them.



Like I said in the Mark Tremonti thread

This place really is a bubble.


----------



## Hollowway

Easy there, fellas. I've heard you don't mess with the Zoltan.


----------



## xzacx

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like I said in the Mark Tremonti thread
> 
> This place really is a bubble.


I’ve also never heard of Periphery (or Mark Tremonti other than via his PRS models existing) outside of this board. Then again I really only listen to rap, R&B, and ‘90s death metal, so not really surprising hahah.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

wedge_destroyer said:


> Got fired from static x/jailed for items involving a 13 year old girl if memory serves.


But yet we can't get an InstaGib? Fucking hell.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Loomer said:


> Well, then he just one-upped himself and his apparently giant ego quite considerably from "just" always wearing his own band's merch all the time to literally buying a guitar company and getting it to promote himself all the time with no attention given to anyone else.. I almost find it amusing, to be honest. It's definitely on brand for his whole public persona.
> 
> But ok. If he's on board (no pun intended) in that sense, the company is not getting any money from me. Everyone gets to decide for themselves where they draw the line, vis a vis the ol' "vote with your dollar", and I draw mine here. It is fun enough to laugh at how goofy and corny FFDP are and so on, but scratch away at the Monster logo stickers and underneath you'll find some stuff I personally cannot in good conscience support.




WTF did they do that's so terrible?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> WTF did they do that's so terrible?


Like, I get it. 5FDP sucks. A lot.

But Jesus, I never avoided Spector basses because the bassist of Nickelback uses them.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like, I get it. 5FDP sucks. A lot.
> 
> But Jesus, I never avoided Spector basses because the bassist of Nickelback uses them.



That's what I'm thinking. But he's saying it like they did some bad stuff. I don't follow the band so I don't know much about them


----------



## Loomer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like, I get it. 5FDP sucks. A lot.
> 
> But Jesus, I never avoided Spector basses because the bassist of Nickelback uses them.





DrakkarTyrannis said:


> That's what I'm thinking. But he's saying it like they did some bad stuff. I don't follow the band so I don't know much about them



I mean, yeah, sure they suck. That is not what have a problem with though. Lots of bands suck, and lots of artists have sig models I'd love to own despite not liking the band at all (Looking at you, COW).

My problem is a lot more real-worldy, and accordingly a lot more boring and depressing.
5FDP, and Zoltan particularly are very open about their politics, and their politics are very far Right.
Naturally, I don't expect any venture capitalist, investor or even CEO to be outright left-leaning, especially not in the US. I may be an idiot, but I'm not THAT naive. I know as well as anyone that "truly believing capitalism is the best possible system" and "already being rich" are two things which very often go hand in hand.

However, with 5FDP, it's a bit different for me, and like I said everyone needs to work out for themselves where and when they draw a line. Mine goes here.
While I admit that I also can't know the political beliefs of people who make all my other stuff, I draw my line when I know them for sure.
I can't know for certain if the CEO of Ibanez lists "Sun And Steel" as his favorite book. I can't know if Tim Mills of BKP voted Tory this UK election. I'll never know if the guy who did assembly on my beloved Red Panda Context reverb pedal follows every alt-right talking head on twitter and calls Julius Evola the most important philosopher of the 20th century. I don't know for sure, so they do of course get the benefit of the doubt. My default position is that people are basically good and decent folks until proven otherwise.

But when someone is completely unambiguous and, let's be honest, more than a little confrontational about what they believe, that doubt is gone. 5FDP is very, very strongly pro-cop in the full "Blue Lives Matter" way, regardless of how the wave of scandals keeps rolling, how many innocent bystanders and unarmed civilians get murdered and how much info gets uncovered about how the police harasses minorities and brutally abuses power. If they take that stand, I know where their priorities lie, and I cannot in good conscience support that.
They are, as we know EXTREMELY pro-military to the point of outright jingoism, regardless of how many civilians have died as a result of US foreign intervention. If they take that stand, I know that their assessment of the value of (brown, non-American) human lives and mine are irreconcilable.

So yeah, sure the band blows, but Nickelback is pretty dull music too and they still seem like decent people with healthy empathy, so I have no qualms there. Five Finger Death Punch are just a more overtly political entity* and therefore I can't bring myself to support them financially in any way with the beliefs I have myself. In the same way, I won't buy records or merch from bands with Nazi connections** because I don't want to support it. Similarly I won't be able to enjoy music from people like R. Kelly and so on. I draw my line when I can't give people the benefit of the doubt.

*I know the singer is also a violent abuser and rampantly (and loudly) misogynistic anti-feminist, but that's just adding to the pile for me.

** And boy howdy does that make life as a Black Metal fan pretty difficult.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Loomer said:


> I mean, yeah, sure they suck. That is not what have a problem with though. Lots of bands suck, and lots of artists have sig models I'd love to own despite not liking the band at all (Looking at you, COW).
> 
> My problem is a lot more real-worldy, and accordingly a lot more boring and depressing.
> 5FDP, and Zoltan particularly are very open about their politics, and their politics are very far Right.
> Naturally, I don't expect any venture capitalist, investor or even CEO to be outright left-leaning, especially not in the US. I may be an idiot, but I'm not THAT naive. I know as well as anyone that "truly believing capitalism is the best possible system" and "already being rich" are two things which very often go hand in hand.
> 
> However, with 5FDP, it's a bit different for me, and like I said everyone needs to work out for themselves where and when they draw a line. Mine goes here.
> While I admit that I also can't know the political beliefs of people who make all my other stuff, I draw my line when I know them for sure.
> I can't know for certain if the CEO of Ibanez lists "Sun And Steel" as his favorite book. I can't know if Tim Mills of BKP voted Tory this UK election. I'll never know if the guy who did assembly on my beloved Red Panda Context reverb pedal follows every alt-right talking head on twitter and calls Julius Evola the most important philosopher of the 20th century. I don't know for sure, so they do of course get the benefit of the doubt. My default position is that people are basically good and decent folks until proven otherwise.
> 
> But when someone is completely unambiguous and, let's be honest, more than a little confrontational about what they believe, that doubt is gone. 5FDP is very, very strongly pro-cop in the full "Blue Lives Matter" way, regardless of how the wave of scandals keeps rolling, how many innocent bystanders and unarmed civilians get murdered and how much info gets uncovered about how the police harasses minorities and brutally abuses power. If they take that stand, I know where their priorities lie, and I cannot in good conscience support that.
> They are, as we know EXTREMELY pro-military to the point of outright jingoism, regardless of how many civilians have died as a result of US foreign intervention. If they take that stand, I know that their assessment of the value of (brown, non-American) human lives and mine are irreconcilable.
> 
> So yeah, sure the band blows, but Nickelback is pretty dull music too and they still seem like decent people with healthy empathy, so I have no qualms there. Five Finger Death Punch are just a more overtly political entity* and therefore I can't bring myself to support them financially in any way with the beliefs I have myself. In the same way, I won't buy records or merch from bands with Nazi connections** because I don't want to support it. Similarly I won't be able to enjoy music from people like R. Kelly and so on. I draw my line when I can't give people the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> *I know the singer is also a violent abuser and rampantly (and loudly) misogynistic anti-feminist, but that's just adding to the pile for me.
> 
> ** And boy howdy does that make life as a Black Metal fan pretty difficult.



...
Shit I actually agree with everything you said.


----------



## Loomer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ...
> Shit I actually agree with everything you said.



Careful with that; that way madness lies, my friend.


----------



## Loomer

On a lighter note: 

Zoltan being an investor in the company does however clear up a LOT of my initial bafflement at various things. For instance: I've been genuinely perplexed as to why exactly the Instagram feed is literally nothing but Zoltan Bathory and his bassist (with the occasional archive footage of Slash) and absolutely NO mention of the hundreds of other artists who have been deeply loyal to the brand for decades, even in the worst times. To name a few, you could have easily given some time to someone like Erik Rutan and his utterly #iconic red Ironbird. You could get good ol' Terrance Hobbs back on board. You could bring in Leon from Nails who's been using custom Ironbirds for years. The legendary John McEntee from Incantation who picked up his Mockingbird when Zoltan was in diapers and never put it down since. If you're announcing a reissue of the Chuck Schuldiner Stealth, at least post a little more than two photos of the man. The list is more or less endless, but nooooo... We need literally twenty Instagram stories of the human equivalent of a MAGA hat fucking an Axe body spray in a Monster-filled jacuzzi instead. 

But hey, if the guy's on the board of investors, and has made it pretty evident over the years that he's pretty dang in love with himself, all of a sudden this makes sense. 

I was a bit baffled that the whole endeavour was being billed as a "return to the old school" in words, and then all of a sudden having a fucking superstrat, of all things, touted as the new flagship for the rollout. I was wondering what the hell was going on with the Ironbird absent from the rollout and literally all models being "Modernised" but in a way that's 1:1 with the corny, gaudy nonsense Schecter was doing 10 years ago and almost no models with a more subdued, classic aesthetic. It seemed weirdly out of step with the actual history of the brand. 

But now I know it's been bought by a man whose albums have cover art that is unironically that dual-pistol-wielding airbrushed Grim Reaper figure that your racist, thrice-divorced uncle has on his dumb "Never underestimate a WELDER who was born in JULY and loves PUTTING HIS DICK IN A TRUCKS EXHAUST PIPES while SALUTING the FLAG" t-shirt and it all makes sense.


----------



## mlp187

> "Never underestimate a WELDER who was born in JULY and loves PUTTING HIS DICK IN A TRUCKS EXHAUST PIPES while SALUTING the FLAG" t-shirt


Where can I buy one of these? Asking for a friend...


----------



## spudmunkey

mlp187 said:


> Where can I buy one of these? Asking for a friend...


Facebook.


----------



## jco5055

I will admit, I do wonder if Zoltan and the rest of FFDP aren't more KISS-level shrewd businessman and they just realized it would be easy to make $$$$ catering specifically to pro-military/cop right wingers with their rather poppy/commericalized(when you think about it) metal. Which almost makes it worse.

I mean going to metal shows over the years, whether it's basically mainstream stuff like Maiden or Slayer or more niche stuff like Nevermore or King Diamond, the VAST majority of people there seem to care only about aggression/heaviness/"I hate my dad so I listen to angry music" that Pantera seems to be the all time standard for, and a lot definitely are right wingers/conservative.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

jco5055 said:


> I will admit, I do wonder if Zoltan and the rest of FFDP aren't more KISS-level shrewd businessman and they just realized it would be easy to make $$$$ catering specifically to pro-military/cop right wingers with their rather poppy/commericalized(when you think about it) metal. Which almost makes it worse.



Either they're MAGAites, massive posers... Or both. 

Probably both.

I wanna say at least Jason Hook is both. I remember reading an interview in a Guitar World magazine where he researched a bunch of pop music to figure out how to make it big. Same exact thing Chad Kroeger of Nickelback did.


----------



## Hollowway

@Loomer I pretty much agree with what you said in those posts. And I think a lot of that is because you’re an incredibly good writer, and diplomatic. Like, I would read your articles if you did this for a living. Polly going to show this to my wife when she starts on a “metal guys are dumb” rant.


----------



## sirbuh

Spaced Out Ace said:


> But yet we can't get an InstaGib? Fucking hell.



This. Just.This.


----------



## Merrekof

Bring back Tripp Eisens sig? Okay, I liked the Wave model but I wouldn't put his name on it anymore. For obvious reasons..

Shit, didn't know Zoltan and his goons were that political. Never gave that band any attention tbh..
About the nazi collecting.. it doesn't necessarily mean collectors are nazi symphasizers. I am very interested in the whole World War thing, both episodes. I do not own any nazi stuff, mainly because I'm too cheap to spend money on it. If I did, I would've had nazi and Soviet stuff here. And probably no USA stuff. Does that make me a neo-nazi, or commie? I feel I am neither. Oh, I would also have a real helmet of the Belgian army used during WWI. The French helmet with the lion badge on it. That must mean I'm a patriot? No not at all..


----------



## Loomer

Merrekof said:


> Bring back Tripp Eisens sig? Okay, I liked the Wave model but I wouldn't put his name on it anymore. For obvious reasons..
> 
> Shit, didn't know Zoltan and his goons were that political. Never gave that band any attention tbh..
> About the nazi collecting.. it doesn't necessarily mean collectors are nazi symphasizers. I am very interested in the whole World War thing, both episodes. I do not own any nazi stuff, mainly because I'm too cheap to spend money on it. If I did, I would've had nazi and Soviet stuff here. And probably no USA stuff. Does that make me a neo-nazi, or commie? I feel I am neither. Oh, I would also have a real helmet of the Belgian army used during WWI. The French helmet with the lion badge on it. That must mean I'm a patriot? No not at all..



CoNNections, not coLLections, my dude  Lemmy ruined us a bit there. 
I'm referring specifically to people who are politically active as literal fascists, or people who are apparently so cool with fascist ideology that they see no problem in helping people spread it. Not folks who have memorabilia on shelves.


----------



## MrWulf

I'm going to catch some flack here but I'm honestly ambivalent toward 5FDP's the band, the music, the crowd or the politics side that they involved. They know who they want to appeal to in order to get the most money, and they have been staying in their lane forever. This is another one of those "can you seperate the personality from the product" situation and for me, i couldnt care less about the personality because the product interested me more. At the same time the cynical side of me just couldnt care less about whatever 5FDP is doing. Because if i do then it would be being needlessly self righteous about it, and there are worst offenders (Apple, Nike etc etc) in the world.


----------



## Loomer

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Either they're MAGAites, massive posers... Or both.
> 
> Probably both.
> 
> I wanna say at least Jason Hook is both. I remember reading an interview in a Guitar World magazine where he researched a bunch of pop music to figure out how to make it big. Same exact thing Chad Kroeger of Nickelback did.



I was actually going to include something along these lines, but my 6 week old daughter needed some attention 

In his recent video on them, Finn McKenty of youtube channel Punk Rock MBA actually pointed out how successful they've been in making tribalism work for them, i.e. appealing to a very specific demographic with a very targeted approach. This did make me wonder a bit about just how sincere they are in their beliefs, seeing as.. Well... Being an opportunist who tells frustrated, angry working class (white) dudes stuff like this is a VERY lucrative career to have these days regardless of whether of you believe it yourself. The media world has more than a few people who have ridden and are riding that wave (Dave Rubin, Steven Crowder, Jordan Peterson, Milo, etc. etc.) and have made bank off of it, so why shouldn't it be a thing in music?! Also, the US Military is HUGE demographic and marketing to them directly is almost as sure a bet as making Evangelical media for that market; as long as you tick the ideological boxes and toe the party line, you will have an audience that is unfailingly loyal and since they're already trained to harbor a persecution complex and doubt "outside" media, you have a smaller field of competition, and your quality doesn't have to be on par with everyone else. Regardless of how one feels about it, and without ever being able to truly know what is in people's hearts, you have to admit that it's a helluva business model. Or a helluva grift, depending on perspective. Either way, they get rich and that cannot be disputed.

My pet theory is that at the very least Ivan, the singer, is what I'd call a "true believer" because he just doesn't come across as the kind of person who's capable of what running a grift like this requires: kind of performative doublethink. Or just plain ol' "think" to begin with. Zoltan is a wild card, seeing as there is such a thing as the "zeal of the converted"* to bypass the fact that he's, well, Hungarian  But he could also be very shrewd and not give a shit about actual political implications of anything. Maybe it's a combo. I'll never know. Hungary has had a pretty worrying slide into right-wing totalitarianism in recent decades, so that may also have shaped his ideology.
That said, it is a bit odd, isn't it!? None of them have anything of a service record with the military at all whatsoever. Their previous drummer only became a cop AFTER leaving the band. Two of them aren't even American. If one were given to tasteless jokes (and Lord knows I am), one could argue that the only real instance of them walking the walk after talking all that talk, was that time Ivan Moody beat the piss out of his wife as a way of telling their law enforcement fans** that "hey I'm one of you guys!" All else is just smoke and mirrors that gets them rich.

This also, in a way, feeds into where I draw my line. Whether they use the imagery as pure marketing and have no ideology or believe deeply in all of it is a moot point: They actively normalise a lot of attitudes I personally believe have no place in a civilised, compassionate and democratic society and accordingly whatever lies behind is wholly immaterial, whereas results are decidedly material.

* See Candace Owens, Dinesh D'souza et al, basically any person who is part of a minority demographic and loyally attacks those same minorities as long as the powerful majority applauds them for it.
** For context on that joke; I read somewhere that the rate of police officers who have committed domestic violence against their partner is around 40%, which is of course in poor taste to joke about too much because, well... Y I K E S


----------



## Loomer

Hollowway said:


> @Loomer I pretty much agree with what you said in those posts. And I think a lot of that is because you’re an incredibly good writer, and diplomatic. Like, I would read your articles if you did this for a living. Polly going to show this to my wife when she starts on a “metal guys are dumb” rant.



thanks so much man! I'm glad to hear I'm coming across as not a total idiot.


----------



## Cynicanal

Loomer said:


> The legendary John McEntee from Incantation who picked up his Mockingbird when Zoltan was in diapers and never put it down since.


Vaguely on-topic, vaguely off, but an amazing story related to that purple Mockingbird -- one time, when Incantation were on tour, while driving, the door of their gear trailer flew open, and that Mockingbird (in its case) flew out in the middle of the freeway. McEntee loved that guitar so much that _he ran out into the middle of freeway traffic_ to save it.

Dude risked his life for that axe! If anyone should be an endorser, it's got to be him.


----------



## sirbuh

Loomer said:


> In his recent video on them, Finn McKenty of youtube channel Punk Rock MBA actually pointed out how successful they've been in making tribalism work for them, i.e. appealing to a very specific demographic with a very targeted approach.



Well enough about the google sorting algos.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Either they're MAGAites, massive posers... Or both.
> 
> Probably both.
> 
> I wanna say at least Jason Hook is both. I remember reading an interview in a Guitar World magazine where he researched a bunch of pop music to figure out how to make it big. Same exact thing Chad Kroeger of Nickelback did.


You do realize Jason started as a session/gun for hire type, I hope.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

As for buying anything BC Rich, I'd rather take a trip to Japan and get some hide models from Fernandes than buy anything from Zoltan's shell company so he can up his Monster dosage and increase how many times a day he showers himself in the worst scent Axe body spray produces. 

Axe is fine, but thanks to the commercials, most people do not know how to even apply the shit without reeking like they've been fucking low rent prostitutes all weekend and needed the strongest version of what essentially amounts to Febreeze for people to try and cover it up. Here's a hint: short, little sprits, sort of like you'll get from a proper bottle of cologne, 2-3 times is all you need. Not one long ozone depleting blast in an X pattern.


----------



## efiltsohg

supporting the police is extreme far right now? lmao I always forget what a bubble the Extremely Online (tm) live in


----------



## Hollowway

efiltsohg said:


> supporting the police is extreme far right now? lmao I always forget what a bubble the Extremely Online (tm) live in



No, that's not what he's saying. And let's try not to devolve this thread into a politics fight with strawman arguments.


----------



## Loomer

MrWulf said:


> I'm going to catch some flack here but I'm honestly ambivalent toward 5FDP's the band, the music, the crowd or the politics side that they involved. They know who they want to appeal to in order to get the most money, and they have been staying in their lane forever. This is another one of those "can you seperate the personality from the product" situation and for me, i couldnt care less about the personality because the product interested me more. At the same time the cynical side of me just couldnt care less about whatever 5FDP is doing. Because if i do then it would be being needlessly self righteous about it, and there are worst offenders (Apple, Nike etc etc) in the world.



You're not going to catch any flack from me, that I will say. To reiterate: Everyone has to decide for themselves where they draw their own line. No exceptions.

Some people can separate the art from the artist, and some can't. I am one of the latter, to a very high degree. Despite being a straight, white cis-gender male, I cannot stomach it if someone is actively bigoted or fascist.
Partly because I just believe in equality, everyone's right to freedom and happiness and so on, which is very much an ideological and "ethereal"; i.e. very much based in loose ideas and not so much boots-on-the-ground reality/praxis.
However, I have spent enough time looking into both the historical reality of Fascism and Right-wing totalitarianism and its theoretical framework to know full well that they most certainly will come for people like me as well, just as they have in the past. Some of the first groups to get sent to the Nazi death camps weren't just the Jews and the gays; it was the Communists, Anarchists, Social Democrats and even Conservatives who weren't completely down with the whole "Genocide" bit. Their white skin did fuck all to save them. Salazar and Franco didn't have people "removed" because of their skin colour. Ethnicity had nothing to do with it if you got a free helicopter ride from Pinochet. The list goes on and it is all very depressing reading indeed... And for the record of course the Soviets also "removed" people if they were sympathetic to Anarchism or just had a take on the endgame of Marxism that was actually true to, well... Actual Marxism and not totalitarianism with a nice red banner. Where there's authoritarianism, there's the violent removal of any and all "Others" and that is bad; the only real difference being that with right-wing authoritarians the status of "Other" will also have an ethnic/identity-based component that no amount of "loyally joining the Party" can ever solve.

So when someone begins voicing these ideas of tribalism, of in-groups and out-groups, of how "We are great because we say we are and everyone else just sucks" again, even if just in their embryonic, pre total-shit-hitting-all-fans-escalation states, I see every reason to get very worried. We have seen multiple times what happens if these things are allowed to escalate, many millions have died and we ought to all have learned from it.

Five Finger Death Punch, then... Is it the literal end of society that they exist and say what they say?! No, of course not. They are, however, part of something greater and it is naive to view them in a vacuum. As much as I dislike slippery slope arguments, if a certain group of people keep getting told the same message of "We are great" and "They are not We" or even "They are against Us" over and over, that idea can and will take hold in a very dangerous way. If that certain group is also heavily armed and already dealing with a lot of frustration in their daily lives, keep getting told to value "strength" over "weakness" (both of these terms defined very narrowly of course) there is greater risk. If a society fails to remain vigilant of this, the risk of violence increases incrementally until it gets entirely out of hand. Bands like 5FDP are a small part of that process, sure, but a part of it nevertheless. Unless there is something they still keep hidden - if there is a "Power Level" they don't want to reveal yet - I even feel it is quite wrong to even call them Fascist in any way, or even crypto. They do, however, espouse a sort of bastardised, belligerent and somewhat primitive take on Conservatism and tribalist "We are Strong, They are weak" mentality which history has shown time and time again to potentially be a step on the way to something considerably worse, if left to fester.

As for drawing lines, then... You correctly point out that megacorporations are also extremely, extremely bad. No one in their right mind would argue against this, I feel. Of course their power is several orders of magnitude greater than some meathead metal band with corny lyrics and bad album art. No argument there.
However, the pertinent question here then becomes whether or not drawing the line somewhere, or even drawing it at all, is something that is feasibly within the power of a regular person, and the depressing answer is unfortunately that it isn't. I cannot fully control how and where my money and data goes, with regards to megacorps, and the argument that this invalidates the very idea of boycotting anything is a valid one. I fully understand someone who simply accepts the cynicism of it and declines to acknowledge it as anything but a waste of time. That said, I personally take the "glass half full" position that I will do my best to control the flow where I can and take it from there. Better to do what I can, even if it is very little, rather than do nothing else. I can take the idea of perfection, purity and spotless virtue and shove them where the sun only rarely shines; moral absolutism solves nothing but action at least gets there in time.

I can't control what flows into Facebook, Google and so on from my part, but I _can_ control whether or not I buy a particular guitar or not. In this instance I can actually freely, fully control whether or not I will put money in the pocket of someone who is actively encouraging people to move society in a direction I find deeply wrong and horrifying.
So just as Five Finger Death Punch is an infinitely tiny part of something larger, my choice to draw that line where I (for the time being, at least) have that power to do so is also a tiny tiny part of a larger thing. But tiny still counts.


----------



## Loomer

efiltsohg said:


> supporting the police is extreme far right now? lmao I always forget what a bubble the Extremely Online (tm) live in



I don't claim that in any way whatsoever. I myself see no problem in having people employed to maintain the peace and enforce the law where needed. What I am saying is just that the way in which the more vociferous Blue Lives Matter people, and by extension 5FDP, "support the police" has some other, deeper implications about the value of certain categories of human life in relation to others that I personally find impossible to abide. The idea of "Blue Lives Matter" is not the genuinely good notion that "Hey, no one deserves to have to die on the job, cop or otherwise", but a reaction against legitimate questions of whether the use of lethal force, esp. against certain minorities has gotten out of hand.


----------



## MrWulf

Personally I don't feel like drawing lines on these are worth the time, either, especially online. If you feel fulfilled by it or it is something you strongly feel about, go ahead. And as you said, the action gets there at least in time. But for me, even those aren't exactly worth the time. The Internet has simultaneously allowed people to communicate in great distances yet also allowed them to trap themselves into little corners of their own echo chamber. I'm not an influential someone or something that can steer humanity's folly, even as little as posting on a guitar forum because Jesus christ have you seen the posts about people complaining about abalone in this thread that for the most part, will never actually buy it even without the abalone anyway? Maybe chalked this up to my cynicism but I think there is a better avenue to act rather than this. To me, act on my own little real-life corner is significantly more fulfilling than trying to fight the windmills that are the internet and humanity. 

But back to the guitars, please. If i want to see political abyss i'd rather camp on r/politics than this.


----------



## Loomer

Cynicanal said:


> Vaguely on-topic, vaguely off, but an amazing story related to that purple Mockingbird -- one time, when Incantation were on tour, while driving, the door of their gear trailer flew open, and that Mockingbird (in its case) flew out in the middle of the freeway. McEntee loved that guitar so much that _he ran out into the middle of freeway traffic_ to save it.
> 
> Dude risked his life for that axe! If anyone should be an endorser, it's got to be him.



You speak truth, my friend.


----------



## Loomer

MrWulf said:


> Personally I don't feel like drawing lines on these are worth the time, either, especially online. If you feel fulfilled by it or it is something you strongly feel about, go ahead. And as you said, the action gets there at least in time. But for me, even those aren't exactly worth the time. The Internet has simultaneously allowed people to communicate in great distances yet also allowed them to trap themselves into little corners of their own echo chamber. I'm not an influential someone or something that can steer humanity's folly, even as little as posting on a guitar forum because Jesus christ have you seen the posts about people complaining about abalone in this thread that for the most part, will never actually buy it even without the abalone anyway? Maybe chalked this up to my cynicism but I think there is a better avenue to act rather than this. To me, act on my own little real-life corner is significantly more fulfilling than trying to fight the windmills that are the internet and humanity.
> 
> But back to the guitars, please. If i want to see political abyss i'd rather camp on r/politics than this.



Oh, don't get me wrong: The company could be an intersectional-feminist worker-owned cooperative that bundled a copy of "The Conquest of Bread" as well as a literal whole-ass free cheesecake with every guitar and the abalone and overall aesthetic would STILL be a deal-breaker for me 

But yeah, I hope I have been clear enough in saying that of course your position is valid and understandable.


----------



## Loomer

And with that, enough yammering about political theories and history from me. I won't let my ingrained habit of exhaustively explaining the overthi.... Ehm, _reasoning _behind my decisions derail an otherwise fine discussion of how certain choices about aesthetics are at best ill-advised, and how numerous endorsement snubs border on the criminal. Carry on...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Have they snubbed anyone? Have former endorsees been denied renewal?

I know they threw it back at Kerry King, but I thought that was all tongue-in-cheek since he moved on to Dean before they were up and running again.


----------



## Loomer

MaxOfMetal said:


> Have they snubbed anyone? Have former endorsees been denied renewal?
> 
> I know they threw it back at Kerry King, but I thought that was all tongue-in-cheek since he moved on to Dean before they were up and running again.



OH, I am desperately trying to bring it all back to the more light hearted tone there was before I had to go and ruin it all. Bear with me. 

"Snub" is maybe a strong word, but I'm more referring to the numerous BCR loyalists and luminaries in the wider Metal scene who have been so completely ignored so far.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Loomer said:


> OH, I am desperately trying to bring it all back to the more light hearted tone there was before I had to go and ruin it all. Bear with me.
> 
> "Snub" is maybe a strong word, but I'm more referring to the numerous BCR loyalists and luminaries in the wider Metal scene who have been so completely ignored so far.



It just seems like they're trying to push the guitars and the overall "fresh start" image over individual artists. Even the 5FDP chodes have minimal visibility on their social media.


----------



## Loomer

MaxOfMetal said:


> It just seems like they're trying to push the guitars and the overall "fresh start" image over individual artists. Even the 5FDP chodes have minimal visibility on their social media.



Have you been following the stories on their Instagram? I have, and it has been literally just 5FDP and close to nothing else.


----------



## efiltsohg

alright we get it, you won't buy one


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Loomer said:


> Have you been following the stories on their Instagram? I have, and it has been literally just 5FDP and close to nothing else.



Not really. I just look at the regular pictures of guitars.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## MaxOfMetal




----------



## Loomer

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not really. I just look at the regular pictures of guitars.


That explains it. They post there a LOT, and it's been like 50% just live shots of Zoltan and Chris Kael. No one else.


----------



## spudmunkey

Loomer said:


> That explains it. They post there a LOT, and it's been like 50% just live shots of Zoltan and Chris Kael. No one else.



35% of the remaining shots are old pics of Slash (or at least picks of him playing old ones).


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I could give less of a shit if they are pro military, cop, america.

Who gives a fook


----------



## Hollowway

efiltsohg said:


> alright we get it, you won't buy one


Don’t count me out! I’m torn between:

Plus: one of the only 8 string Floyd guitars in the history of man
Minus: all of the other stuff brought up.


----------



## Trainwreck

Ugh.......politics. Can we bring back the abalone debate ?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I could give less of a shit if they are pro military, cop, america.
> 
> Who gives a fook





Trainwreck said:


> Ugh.......politics. Can we bring back the abalone debate ?



That was finished hours ago, y'all keep bringing it back up.


----------



## Hollowway

It’s funny, because now that we’re talking so much about abalone purfling I’m seeing it everywhere. ESPs on Reverb, Mayones, etc. I hadn’t realized how many guitar out there have it. I think for me the issue is the FB, though. Or maybe not have it on the body AND FB.


----------



## Loomer

Hollowway said:


> It’s funny, because now that we’re talking so much about abalone purfling I’m seeing it everywhere. ESPs on Reverb, Mayones, etc. I hadn’t realized how many guitar out there have it. I think for me the issue is the FB, though. Or maybe not have it on the body AND FB.



I just hate it. Full stop. No exceptions. 

But I do acknowledge that my preferences are different from the norm. Aesthetically speaking, I want as little adornment as possible, preferably none whatsoever, and I am not very willing to compromise with that.


----------



## Hollowway

Loomer said:


> I just hate it. Full stop. No exceptions.
> 
> But I do acknowledge that my preferences are different from the norm. Aesthetically speaking, I want as little adornment as possible, preferably none whatsoever, and I am not very willing to compromise with that.



Not a fan of the gaudy?  I’m guessing you don’t own any Kiesels then.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Loomer said:


> I mean, yeah, sure they suck. That is not what have a problem with though. Lots of bands suck, and lots of artists have sig models I'd love to own despite not liking the band at all (Looking at you, COW).
> 
> My problem is a lot more real-worldy, and accordingly a lot more boring and depressing.
> 5FDP, and Zoltan particularly are very open about their politics, and their politics are very far Right.
> Naturally, I don't expect any venture capitalist, investor or even CEO to be outright left-leaning, especially not in the US. I may be an idiot, but I'm not THAT naive. I know as well as anyone that "truly believing capitalism is the best possible system" and "already being rich" are two things which very often go hand in hand.
> 
> However, with 5FDP, it's a bit different for me, and like I said everyone needs to work out for themselves where and when they draw a line. Mine goes here.
> While I admit that I also can't know the political beliefs of people who make all my other stuff, I draw my line when I know them for sure.
> I can't know for certain if the CEO of Ibanez lists "Sun And Steel" as his favorite book. I can't know if Tim Mills of BKP voted Tory this UK election. I'll never know if the guy who did assembly on my beloved Red Panda Context reverb pedal follows every alt-right talking head on twitter and calls Julius Evola the most important philosopher of the 20th century. I don't know for sure, so they do of course get the benefit of the doubt. My default position is that people are basically good and decent folks until proven otherwise.
> 
> But when someone is completely unambiguous and, let's be honest, more than a little confrontational about what they believe, that doubt is gone. 5FDP is very, very strongly pro-cop in the full "Blue Lives Matter" way, regardless of how the wave of scandals keeps rolling, how many innocent bystanders and unarmed civilians get murdered and how much info gets uncovered about how the police harasses minorities and brutally abuses power. If they take that stand, I know where their priorities lie, and I cannot in good conscience support that.
> They are, as we know EXTREMELY pro-military to the point of outright jingoism, regardless of how many civilians have died as a result of US foreign intervention. If they take that stand, I know that their assessment of the value of (brown, non-American) human lives and mine are irreconcilable.
> 
> So yeah, sure the band blows, but Nickelback is pretty dull music too and they still seem like decent people with healthy empathy, so I have no qualms there. Five Finger Death Punch are just a more overtly political entity* and therefore I can't bring myself to support them financially in any way with the beliefs I have myself. In the same way, I won't buy records or merch from bands with Nazi connections** because I don't want to support it. Similarly I won't be able to enjoy music from people like R. Kelly and so on. I draw my line when I can't give people the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> *I know the singer is also a violent abuser and rampantly (and loudly) misogynistic anti-feminist, but that's just adding to the pile for me.
> 
> ** And boy howdy does that make life as a Black Metal fan pretty difficult.




I mean...their music kinda drips that. I don't know much about them but from people trashing them on this forum I went a watched a few of their videos.

I got a strong "Young angry middle America white male in a wife beater pumping iron on his weight set in his family trailor, blue lives matter, support the troops, WWE fanatic, he's still your president, chug energy drinks" kinda vibe. Very white male heteo kinda thing.

Obviously not my kinda flavor but hey someone has to market to those folks so they might as well capitalize on it.

I don't agree with any of it and I definitely see your point.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

They should be more androgynous (and pretty flamboyant as well) like KISS.


----------



## Loomer

Hollowway said:


> Not a fan of the gaudy? I’m guessing you don’t own any Kiesels then.



Correct. The most cosmetically "nice" guitar in my collection is a 41-year old Les Paul Standard copy by Greco. It has binding, but that is it.

The rest are three 90s MIJ Jacksons, one of which has literal rot in the neck wood from being in a damp storage area for ten years but still works perfectly. All black, all beat up. Also a beat to shit RGA121 with a single pickup, a rough looking RGA7 with a single pickup and a... Yeah. You get the idea


----------



## KnightBrolaire

still no 7 string ironbird smh


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75697
> 
> View attachment 75698


BC Rich for president


----------



## Vostre Roy

KnightBrolaire said:


> still no 7 string ironbird smh



Its still early, we'll see what will be the full lineup probably after NAMM '20. But to expect a Legacy (or abalone-less) 7 strings Ironbird might be a stretch.

Right now I'm waiting to see what will be the final lineup before deciding between an Ironbird and a Jackson Pro WR7. I'd prefer a 7 strings IB but could do with a 6 given, as I previously stated in this thread, that the specs are there.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Like I said earlier in the thread, I imagine they're gonna do a lot of feelers; release some models, see how well they sell, then work from there. That or get feedback on what people want.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Vostre Roy said:


> Its still early, we'll see what will be the full lineup probably after NAMM '20. But to expect a Legacy (or abalone-less) 7 strings Ironbird might be a stretch.
> 
> Right now I'm waiting to see what will be the final lineup before deciding between an Ironbird and a Jackson Pro WR7. I'd prefer a 7 strings IB but could do with a 6 given, as I previously stated in this thread, that the specs are there.


I'm not holding out hope for a 7 string ironbird anytime soon, and given how they specced out the 6 strings, I'm not sure I'd want one. The only exception would be the glossy black version with abalone, that one actually looks pretty nice from a distance. All the other colors just don't work as well with the chrome hardware/abalone imo.


----------



## bostjan

Hey now, I am a white(-ish) hetero male and I don't get down with energy drinks, cops, presidents, nor any of the other associations 
I guess if you give BCR your money, some of that money goes to Zoltan, and some of his money goes to Trump, so it's like giving some money to Trump. But, living in the USA, when I pay taxes, Trump is getting some of my money indirectly, and I'm not choosing what I get in return.

I don't mind a little bit of guitar with my abalone, though.


----------



## ExplorerMike

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75697
> 
> View attachment 75698



Further proof BC Rich is reading this thread and trolling everyone in here haha. This made me laugh.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ExplorerMike said:


> Further proof BC Rich is reading this thread and trolling everyone in here haha. This made me laugh.



I doubt it's aimed just here. 

The overall reaction across multiple platforms has pretty much been "wtf abalone".

They're acting like it's not bothering them, but they've been telling dealers non-abalone models are happening.


----------



## ExplorerMike

MaxOfMetal said:


> I doubt it's aimed just here.
> 
> The overall reaction across multiple platforms has pretty much been "wtf abalone".
> 
> They're acting like it's not bothering them, but they've been telling dealers non-abalone models are happening.



Yeah I realize it’s not just aimed solely at us, but it is pretty funny to see them address things like that either way.


----------



## Splenetic

This is the only guitar that I know of where I found abalone to be acceptable:











I miss mine quite a bit. It had a much nicer and darker fretboard than this one too.
With later Hellraisers, Schecter brought the abalone out front, and pretty much ruined it for me. In this config, it was nice and stealthy.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I feel like the BC Rich meeting went

"Okay....abalone! We gotta make them flashy!"

"People are gonna bitch about all that abalone"

"Exactly! And they'll whine and repost all our stuff out of anger! They're doing our presswork! Then we'll roll out the non abalone shapes. The kids call it trolling...it'll work, trust me"

"But...couldn't we just not do abalone and the buzz of the BCR comeback with fan favorite shapes will do the same thing just without the negati-"

"SUPPORT THE TROOPS...BLUE LIVES MATTER!" *Chugs Monster while playing FFDP and waving an American flag*


----------



## ThePIGI King

Okay, maybe I'm lost on this totally off topic bit but...

What the hell is wrong with supporting law enforcement and service men and women? I get the abalone hate. I get the FFDP hate. And I also understand the Monster hate (however, I do really like energy drinks). But saying supporting troops and law enforcement as a bad thing, as well as waving the flag? Why mock this? What about loving America and supporting those in the service is wrong or mock-worthy?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ThePIGI King said:


> Okay, maybe I'm lost on this totally off topic bit but...
> 
> What the hell is wrong with supporting law enforcement and service men and women? I get the abalone hate. I get the FFDP hate. And I also understand the Monster hate (however, I do really like energy drinks). But saying supporting troops and law enforcement as a bad thing, as well as waving the flag? Why mock this? What about loving America and supporting those in the service is wrong or mock-worthy?



No one is not "supporting" the troops or law enforcement. It's being a propped up as a straw-man argument since someone brought up police brutality. In a BCR thread. 

Ya'll have exactly two posts to get back on topic before I nuke this thread.


----------



## Randy

ThePIGI King said:


> Okay, maybe I'm lost on this totally off topic bit but...
> 
> What the hell is wrong with supporting law enforcement and service men and women? I get the abalone hate. I get the FFDP hate. And I also understand the Monster hate (however, I do really like energy drinks). But saying supporting troops and law enforcement as a bad thing, as well as waving the flag? Why mock this? What about loving America and supporting those in the service is wrong or mock-worthy?



FFDP is known for using pro-law enforcement and pro-military imagery as a tool to pander to a specific demographic of people. It's only a half of a shade away from stolen valor. If you actually support either of those groups, someone feigning or flaunting support to drive personal profits should bother you.


----------



## spudmunkey

They keep posting photos on instagram with "#fannedfret" even though none are multiscale.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I feel like the BC Rich meeting went
> 
> "Okay....abalone! We gotta make them flashy!"
> 
> "People are gonna bitch about all that abalone"
> 
> "Exactly! And they'll whine and repost all our stuff out of anger! They're doing our presswork! Then we'll roll out the non abalone shapes. The kids call it trolling...it'll work, trust me"
> 
> "But...couldn't we just not do abalone and the buzz of the BCR comeback with fan favorite shapes will do the same thing just without the negati-"
> 
> "SUPPORT THE TROOPS...BLUE LIVES MATTER!" *Chugs Monster while playing FFDP and waving an American flag*


You forgot "*toss out the window*"



MaxOfMetal said:


> No one is not "supporting" the troops or law enforcement. It's being a propped up as a straw-man argument since someone brought up police brutality. In a BCR thread.
> 
> Ya'll have exactly two posts to get back on topic before I nuke this thread.


I'll be the demon on your shoulder and tell you to just effing do it...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> They keep posting photos on instagram with "#fannedfret" even though none are multiscale.



It's just to show up in searches. Good old fashioned tag bombing.


----------



## Mathemagician

Just waiting on some nice solid color ironbirds. I really like the depth of the cutaways on all these models. I typically bitch about bolt ons with large heels. BCR just said “ok majesty heel on everything”.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> Just waiting on some nice solid color ironbirds. I really like the depth of the cutaways on all these models. I typically bitch about bolt ons with large heels. BCR just said “ok majesty heel on everything”.



They already have some solid color ones. Looks like black, white, purple, and green. 

I dig the array of solids.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Yea the solid color ones do look nice, a lot better than the burl by a mile. 



MaxOfMetal said:


> The overall reaction across multiple platforms has pretty much been "wtf abalone".



As well it should be....
#abaloneisforotters


----------



## Hollowway

Now I’m super curious about what the non abalone ones will look like. I’d love them to keep the binding, and I’m down with the inlays, but eliminating the purfling would be ideal.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Hollowway said:


> Now I’m super curious about what the non abalone ones will look like. I’d love them to keep the binding, and I’m down with the inlays, but eliminating the purfling would be ideal.



I am curious too. As long as they lose the body binding and purlfling. Return to the beveled edges, the rest is negotiable.


----------



## spudmunkey

spudmunkey said:


> They keep posting photos on instagram with "#fannedfret" even though none are multiscale.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

So why not wait until they have a prototype ready to show people to avoid confusion?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

wedge_destroyer said:


> So why not wait until they have a prototype ready to show people to avoid confusion?



Because that takes _effort_.

Pretty much everything is "coming soon" even though they just barely reached dealers with the current batch.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Fair enough, max effect minimal effort. 

But given their current record so far they could probably post a US fanned guitar and it would probably look a bit better, just my 2c. 

Besides a Shredzilla, or maybe a stealth everything I picture is awkward.


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> They already have some solid color ones. Looks like black, white, purple, and green.
> 
> I dig the array of solids.



Yes but without the abalone. It’s for some. But not for me.


----------



## MrWulf

Ironbird 7 multiscale with abalone. 

I wonder how confused SSO will be about that.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MrWulf said:


> Ironbird 7 multiscale with abalone.
> 
> I wonder how confused SSO will be about that.



Just slap an Ibanez logo on the headstock, get Bulb or whoever the DJent savior of the month around here is, and they would say it's the most brilliant thing ever


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Just slap an Ibanez logo on the headstock, get Bulb or whoever the DJent savior of the month around here is, and they would say it's the most brilliant thing ever



You'd probably have to do that to get anyone into these abalone atrocities.

Have to build AxeFxs into them too.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> You'd probably have to do that to get anyone into these abalone atrocities.
> 
> Have to build AxeFxs into them too.


I pictured Tosin holding an abalone covered Axe with a guitar neck sticking out of it and I legit lol'd


----------



## zappatton2

So this band has its five fingers all over the import line, but I'm assuming the custom shop has nothing to do with them, correct? That it is owned and operated independently?

Wonder how much more expensive a bare-bones, bolt-on, alder-bodied CS would stack up price-wise to one of these higher end imports (though, being Canadian, they're _all_ imports to me).


----------



## MaxOfMetal

zappatton2 said:


> So this band has it's five fingers all over the import line, but I'm assuming the custom shop has nothing to do with them, correct? That it is owned and operated independently?
> 
> Wonder how much more expensive a bare-bones, bolt-on, alder-bodied CS would stack up price-wise to one of these higher end imports (though, being Canadian, they're _all_ imports to me).



Unless something significant has changed, even a "bare bones" CS will be quite expensive, even relative to the pricing of these production models.

It's free to ask for a quote, so perhaps give it a shot. Maybe they have an in-stock build you can score for cheap.


----------



## Deep Blue

I think Justin posted this a while ago but since we’re talking custom these are basically perfect to me. I actually really like the 12th fret inlay but get rid of that and they’re still pretty much perfect:


----------



## twguitar

MaxOfMetal said:


> Unless something significant has changed, even a "bare bones" CS will be quite expensive, even relative to the pricing of these production models.
> 
> It's free to ask for a quote, so perhaps give it a shot. Maybe they have an in-stock build you can score for cheap.


I’ve been told buy a few people involved that CS now starts at 5k....


----------



## zappatton2

I heard that too, but thought it applied specifically to neck-throughs. I thought I had seen stock CS bolt-ons for half that a couple of years back, but I guess it really does just boil down to getting an estimate from the horse's mouth.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

zappatton2 said:


> I heard that too, but thought it applied specifically to neck-throughs. I thought I had seen stock CS bolt-ons for half that a couple of years back, but I guess it really does just boil down to getting an estimate from the horse's mouth.



A lot of shops don't post prices because they're ever changing. 

Always get quotes, especially through a few dealers. The higher volume, the better.


----------



## Rosal76

MrWulf said:


> Ironbird 7 multiscale with abalone.
> 
> I wonder how confused SSO will be about that.



Not a B.C. Rich Ironbird and it doesn't have abalone but kinda nifty looking. 





The guitar is a Bond Cyclone for anyone curious about the model.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Deep Blue said:


> I think Justin posted this a while ago but since we’re talking custom these are basically perfect to me. I actually really like the 12th fret inlay but get rid of that and they’re still pretty much perfect:



These are what they need to do. Simple sleek and elegant. And add two more with a quiilt maple top in trans black and trans black cherry


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

This came in today and the FedEx guy was blasting some black sabbath in the truck. I think this guitar may have been blessed


----------



## bostjan

Rosal76 said:


> Not a B.C. Rich Ironbird and it doesn't have abalone but kinda nifty looking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The guitar is a Bond Cyclone for anyone curious about the model.



Did a quick google search and those Bonds look more like BC Riches than these BC Riches do.  Not unreasonably priced, either. You gave any direct experience with them?


----------



## Rosal76

bostjan said:


> You gave any direct experience with them?



I have not. I'd like to try one out but I don't believe they are guitars that you would normally see in music chain stores. I only know of the company because one of my favorite tech/progressive death metal bands (Beyond creation) used to use them in the past. There is a Youtube video of someone who owns/gives a review for a 8 string Cyclone that's pretty cool.


----------



## pyrrhus

I've seen 2 of them in my local store(I think he's a local luthier) A few months ago one of his 7 strings got sold for 1000$ CAD or something on Kijiji.
I was really interested in them until I saw that video a while back. Beyond Creation used them and the guitarist from Voivod had one made not so long ago.


----------



## Cynicanal

I can't believe there's talk of Bond Instruments here without talking about Dan Mongrain's axes:
https://danmongrain.com/images/uploads/153573161917569.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/BondInstruments/photos/a.1466166846755147/1473380436033788/?type=1&theater

Cool guitars, awesome player. Gorguts, Martyr, and _especially_ Voivod absolutely rule!


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I will be coming out with a NGD post tomorrow. So far really liking the guitar and think it is pretty good.

If you would like to know anything ask away. Some interesting stuff I am gonna talk about tomorrow.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Loomer




----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Double message


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

First off I would like to thank @Damon67 for getting me this amazing guitar and making a deal with me. You are the best dude.

The time has come boyos.

This guitar honestly is great. I like the feel of the neck even though it is chunkier than my schecters. The pickups although with no clarification as to what they are exactly are a great impression to me for what I can expect passive dimarzios to be.

I will say though that as BCR goes along in their new journey they can offer more features and specs on their guitars especially for the price considering schecter who is a direct competitor has more stuff on their guitars for a cheaper price. I know Schecter atm is bigger than BCR so they get lower costs, but I do hope BCR can climb the ladder and get to the same stance as schecter. As much as I love my schecters, the only shapes I like are the C-1. I also like the E-1, but they don't really have what I want in terms of specs. BCR on the hand has a bunch of other shapes I would highly consider such as the Jr. V. Ironbird, Beast, Warlock, and stealth. I think the future looks bright for BCR, but they do need to play their cards right IMO.

As far as the lynch mob against abalone, the abalone on mine isn't that bad. I honestly expected it to look much more gawdy in person, but in reality the black cherry and abalone really complemented each other and the purfling on the board and such is a nice taste. Although on some models I can see where this might not be the best choice. This includes the shredzillas that are the green and avocado bursts. On those I am sure those might not look as appealing (I could be wrong here, but that is just my opinion) and on some of the new ironbirds they have such as the green, purple, and white. The satin black ironbird with the abalone doesn't look that bad and if it was just beveled with no abalone I am sure it would look better. I do hope that they do as promised and come out with none abalone stuff or just do it for the 50th anniversary yada yada. I understand the hate, but at least on my guitar it looks tastefully done.

I also really really hope that they cut that shit out with the 24 5/8 scale length, at least on the prophecy and extreme series stuff. It makes no sense to have that scale length for the extreme series which is tailored for the more modern players or metal crowd. Like some of you guys want a 6 string whatever with a floyd to play in drop B or whatever low tuning that a 24 5/8 scale will just suffer doing. I know some don't mind or even prefer it, but personally me and others don't. Make what people want. A simple metal machine of an ironbird with 24 frets, beveled, no binding, 1 hum, 1 vol, blank ebony board, reversed headstock 25.5 scale length and 26.5 for 7's. Offer them in black and white and in a trans black and trans red. Do the same thing for stealths and omg.

Anyways enough of my Alex Jones ranting lets talk about the guitar.

The guitar has some great quality, of course what I would expect from WMI. I noticed two QC issues:

One being that on the back plate cavity, they seemed to make a mistake for the feeding hole for the ground wire. They seemed to make an initial hole and then realized it wouldn't work and make a second hole. Another issue is on the binding at the top point of the headstock, had a little mark on it, which is common in terms of binding headstocks with points, my jackson used to have one. Other than that the binding on the rest of the guitar is clean.

The board is nice and dark, nice piece of quilt maple, no finishing stains, no tools marks anywhere, no sharp fret ends (would've been nice if they rolled them off a little), the electronics in terms of the pots were a bit scratchy and have a low swoosh (gonna definitely change those out). The pickups sound nice. This is my first time owning a set of dimarzios and I honestly was expecting low for these pickups. I still don't really know exactly what they are to be exact, but they sound nice. It has a nice feeling of a more dynamic sounding EMG 57/66 set with better cleans IMO. 

I also noticed that the headstock seems to be smaller than the regular 6 in line BCR headstocks. It has the mini grover tuners on it and the headstock is definitely tiny. I still wonder if I can put a set of sperzels in there without the buttons hitting each other. The neck is most likely a copy of the Schecter Thin C profile. I hope that they make a thinner neck though, if not the neck is still perfectly playable and not a huge concern to me. The neck carve is also great. Extremely easy access to the 24th fret just like my Schecter SLS Elite. The guitar also came with some Dunlop straplocks which to me is a great addition.

another very intresting thing that I noticed is that on the box that the guitar came in it had an address for possibly a new thing BCR is doing? The address was BCRPlayers.com and it said to come and register your guitar and join the club. So maybe they are going to have their own exclusive club and such where you can earn discounts or just have a community of BCR players? That would be cool! It would be also cool if they had community polls where they would make a guitar(s) based on what the community voted on. The address is not up and the website does not pop up so who knows exactly is going on with that venture. Only Bill Xavier and the Master Kyle, Zoltan Bathory knows.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980




----------



## JustinRhoads1980




----------



## JustinRhoads1980




----------



## JustinRhoads1980

https://imgur.com/a/buaFgtK


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I will be getting to cleaning this thing, setting it up for Eb and putting some floyd upgrades to this thing, It will be what my Jackson USA never was.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Where's the string bar that's supposed to be on it after the locking nut?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Where's the string bar that's supposed to be on it after the locking nut?



Not necessary. The headstock has enough tilt to it where it is not necessary


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Not necessary. The headstock has enough tilt to it where it is not necessary


How does the string sit over the nut when you remove the string clamps?


----------



## Randy

No Monster Energy inlay, 5/10


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Randy said:


> No Monster Energy inlay, 5/10




Agreed. Gonna have to get that shit engraved somewhere to maximize the br00talness of it.




Spaced Out Ace said:


> How does the string sit over the nut when you remove the string clamps?









Here some pics


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> No Monster Energy inlay, 69/420



FTFY

*nice*


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MaxOfMetal said:


> FTFY
> 
> *nice*


Needs the graphics of an affliction shirt. Or Ed Hardy.

Actually, I can picture it.

Exec: "So, what do you think we should put on the new graphics series of guitars, Zoltan?"
Zoltan: "How about some Ed Hardy. Ibanez had HR Giger models, right? Well Ed is our version of Giger. DO IT!"


----------



## spudmunkey

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Where's the string bar that's supposed to be on it after the locking nut?





JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Not necessary. The headstock has enough tilt to it where it is not necessary



But...wouldnt the string retainer bar prevent the issue where every string is going to be pulled sharp because it doesn't lay flat across the surface of the lock nut "platform"?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> But...wouldnt the string retainer bar prevent the issue where every string is going to be pulled sharp because it doesn't lay flat across the surface of the lock nut "platform"?



Enough headstock tilt and string tension when tuned should hold the string in place on both sides of the locking nut, effectively eliminating the need for the string retainer.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MaxOfMetal said:


> Enough headstock tilt and string tension when tuned should hold the string in place on both sides of the locking nut, effectively eliminating the need for the string retainer.


Except it sorta looks like it is lifting up on the headstock side of the locking nut.


----------



## Hollowway

That looks cool. The horns look huge!


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Except it sorta looks like it is lifting up on the headstock side of the locking nut.




I mean yeah it looks like it, but I am not noticing any issues.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## spudmunkey

The fret work looks fantastic. And good to see some high-res closeups of the neck and body, because I was holding back saying that the binding/purfling looked reeeeally clean, but it looks like my hesitation was unwarranted. As ugly as it may still be to so many, it looks really well-executed.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75863


Lest my drunken eyes decieve me, which they may, the Ironbird and centrr Jr V are with out binding.... Are those production? If so Hell yea.


----------



## spudmunkey

I can't help but feel like this is a shot from the US custom shop...but could go either way.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> I can't help but feel like this is a shot from the US custom shop...but could go either way.




Pretty sure it is the custom shop


----------



## Trainwreck

As an 80's era BC Rich nut, this new owner is looking like he's actually into rebuilding the brand. Tall order since the last few owners only cared about money. I might have to swallow some pride and check these out. The final product looks great.

Congratulations on the guitar, she looks awesome !!!!


----------



## Aliascent

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75863



Single hum Ironbird and JRV are exactly what I need, hope those are production models.


----------



## Trainwreck

Since we're placing orders I'll take a single hum, string thru, reverse headstock in matte black Ironbird please.

Oh and no tone control or fret markers.

An abalone input jack to appease the haters too. Lol


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Trainwreck said:


> As an 80's era BC Rich nut, this new owner is looking like he's actually into rebuilding the brand. Tall order since the last few owners only cared about money. I might have to swallow some pride and check these out. The final product looks great.
> 
> Congratulations on the guitar, she looks awesome !!!!




Yes although it has a chip in the fretboard at the 3rd fretboard. I am heartbroken. I am most likely going to have to return her


----------



## Merrekof

Good to see BCR has put out the dumpster fire and brings some quality guitars to the table. The abalone doesn't look so bad, right? 


JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yes although it has a chip in the fretboard at the 3rd fretboard


What was that about a chip in the 3rd fret? Been looking at your uploaded pics and couldn't find what you were talking about.


----------



## narad

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75754
> View attachment 75755



I love this!

Also, re: Bond guitars. Heard they were total shit, from two guys who owned / played them. My guess: probably throwing free guitars at the endorsers.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Merrekof said:


> Good to see BCR has put out the dumpster fire and brings some quality guitars to the table. The abalone doesn't look so bad, right?
> 
> What was that about a chip in the 3rd fret? Been looking at your uploaded pics and couldn't find what you were talking about.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Except it sorta looks like it is lifting up on the headstock side of the locking nut.



I wasn't speaking to this particular application, which actually does look somewhat suspect as you want as straight of string pull as possible if omitting the bar.


----------



## BrutalRob

Anyone seen that new pic in their Facebook status? ( was probably on instagram, too)....no abalone!!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

BrutalRob said:


> Anyone seen that new pic in their Facebook status? ( was probably on instagram, too)....no abalone!!



It looks like it was pulled down. I saw it this morning. I didn't post it because I didn't know if it was import or USA.


----------



## Rosal76

spudmunkey said:


> I can't help but feel like this is a shot from the US custom shop...but could go either way.





JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Pretty sure it is the custom shop



I would have thought that B.C. Rich would have placed the "R" logo instead of the script on the Beast headstock of the Jr. V guitar if it is a U.S. custom shop model. Unless B.C. Rich spent all of their abalone binding on their import models that they no longer have any left for the "R" logos on their U.S. custom shop models. LOL!

Jokes aside, however, I have seen B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop models with script logos like on one of D.D. Verni's (Overkill bassist) Widow bass, so it (Jr. V with script logo) could be very well a U.S. model.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 75863



The Jr. V in the center and Iron Bird don't look like they have purfling, but everything else certainly does.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MaxOfMetal said:


> The Jr. V in the center and Iron Bird don't look like they have purfling, but everything else certainly does.



Wait shit that was the picture I saw.  In that case those must be the abalone-less models they were talking about.

Single pickup + floating bridge. Certainly a throwback model.


----------



## spudmunkey

The warlock night not. At least theres less on the fingerboard, which is a step in the right direction.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

T


spudmunkey said:


> The warlock night not. At least theres less on the fingerboard, which is a step in the right direction.


he warlock does. It's just a very bad picture.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> The warlock night not. At least theres less on the fingerboard, which is a step in the right direction.



It looks to be the same fretboard as already posted...full of purfling.


----------



## sirbuh

People moving to dump their Stealth's before the new models hit.
Still laughable prices for the MIK CS model.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

sirbuh said:


> People moving to dump their Stealth's before the new models hit.
> Still laughable prices for the MIK CS model.



Yeah I have been seeing an influx of those hitting the market recently...

like a ton, must've seen maybe 10 listings on reverb within the past few weeks


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 76140
> View attachment 76141




I fuckin died when I saw that on IG. 

BTW the burl top IB's look gross. The colors and the burl just doesn't compliment each other


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Okay yeah that first picture with Xavier fucking killed me.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Okay yeah that first picture with Xavier fucking killed me.



I had to replay the story a few times to assure I was in reality


----------



## exo

If this had 7 strings.......


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

exo said:


> View attachment 76142
> If this had 7 strings.......




that burst is just bad...


----------



## exo

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> that burst is just bad...




You say that like the burst on most non Japan Ibanez or PRS SE is really any better or worse......


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

exo said:


> You say that like the burst on most non Japan Ibanez or PRS SE is really any better or worse......



It doesn't matter about the brand. I know PRS and Ibanez do the same thing and it is gross IMO. It's not the burl so to say, but just the color choices


----------



## exo

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> It doesn't matter about the brand. I know PRS and Ibanez do the same thing and it is gross IMO. It's not the burl so to say, but just the color choices




For me the only “flaw” is the lack of a low B and those damned chrome Fishmans. This bird NEEDS black pickups....


----------



## cardinal

It's burled and abaloned but I'd rock the hell out of that.


----------



## Merrekof

exo said:


> View attachment 76142
> If this had 7 strings.......


Exactly, as an almost exclusive 7 string player, I honestly expected a lot more 7's. Like Mockingbirds, Warlocks and IB's..


----------



## possumkiller

exo said:


> View attachment 76142
> If this had 7 strings.......


That is the only finish that looks good with the burl. It looks like burning hellfire. They should call that finish Australia.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## gunshow86de

exo said:


> View attachment 76142
> If this had 7 strings.......


----------



## Deep Blue

Ok, those look _really _good.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Probably the best they've put out yet.

Though *sigh* what's up with the weird diamonds?


----------



## twguitar

MaxOfMetal said:


> Probably the best they've put out yet.
> 
> Though *sigh* what's up with the weird diamonds?




It goes back to some of the early BCR's but an odd call I must admit. The Slotted Diamond inlays work on the more classic stuff but nothing in the legacy series so far is 'traditional'


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

https://bcrich.com/product/stealth-legacy/

Officially on the website.

Interesting tidbit:
NECK PICKUPDiMarzio D Activator X ™ Black Bobbins, Made in USA
BRIDGE PICKUPDiMarzio Super X2N™ Black Bobbins, Made in USA


----------



## Russian Robot

BCR: "What are stainless steel frets?"


----------



## Mathemagician

That diamond inlay isn’t going to stop me from anything. If that’s the trade off for not have abalone glued to every square inch then so be it.


----------



## sirbuh

MaxOfMetal said:


> Probably the best they've put out yet.
> 
> Though *sigh* what's up with the weird diamonds?



Starting to think these little twists are just their way of being "different" from previous BCR owners/runs.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'll take subtle inlays like that over fuckin' racing stripes.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hey guys a weird thing that I noticed upon further inspection is in regards to the strap buttons on the JR V's.

It seems that the two models as of now both have a button under the wing, but....





The exotic model has the button at the back where the neck meets the body and....






On the satin black model it is nowhere to be found. I honestly thought this was a goof, but it seems like they only put 1 button on the extreme and 2 on the extreme exotic.

I do not understand this at all and makes no effin sense.

Thoughts on this????


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

They done goofed.


----------



## Vyn

A giant Monster,
Bound in abalone,
It's neck through and totally made for tone!
Right or wrong,
I can hardly tell,
If it's a return to glory, or BC Rich has gone to hell

Sorry in advance guys but I had too...


----------



## Hollowway

They’ve solved the V neck dive issue so well you only need the one strap button now.


----------



## spudmunkey

Nah, just need a strap like this badass:




At least it's better than the alternative screw up:


----------



## jonsick

I don't suppose there's any word on UK distribution? While I'm sorely tempted, £1800 once it's landed in the UK and passed customs is a bit much.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Merrekof

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 76237
> 
> View attachment 76236


They sure know how to deal with abalone haters


----------



## spudmunkey

Merrekof said:


> They sure know how to deal with abalone haters



"Abalone? Ahh, balogna!"


----------



## possumkiller

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 76237


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 76237
> 
> View attachment 76236



So their headquarters is a place where guitars ship out, not where they're made. 

I see they're really into BCR heritage.


----------



## zenonshandro

spudmunkey said:


> Nah, just need a strap like this badass:
> View attachment 76206



Solution to V neck dive found. Cost?
Sideways Neck bow from hell.


----------



## Walter W.

Vyn said:


> A giant Monster,
> Bound in abalone,
> It's neck through and totally made for tone!
> Right or wrong,
> I can hardly tell,
> If it's a return to glory, or BC Rich has gone to hell
> 
> Sorry in advance guys but I had too...


----------



## TedintheShed

I want an acrylic BC Rich with abalone inlays!


----------



## sirbuh

So, anyone seeing feedback on these ?


----------



## Vyn

Walter W. said:


>



I was starting to think that I'd made a grave error in admitting to listen to FFDP for a minute, now I know there's others on this board who do too


----------



## Descent

MaxOfMetal said:


> So their headquarters is a place where guitars ship out, not where they're made.
> 
> I see they're really into BCR heritage.



They're like Santa, but instead of North Pole dwarfs probably use Vietnamese urchin luthiers, so it'll be bad form to show the real factory, it'll probably look more like this:


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

MaxOfMetal said:


> So their headquarters is a place where guitars ship out, not where they're made.
> 
> I see they're really into BCR heritage.


I noticed that too. "Looks like a shipping center to me..." Guess they don't want you to see the sweatshops as they truly are.


----------



## Bdtunn

Can’t find if this has been discussed but the iron bird is a 25.5” scale, it’s up on the site now.


----------



## Randy

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 76236



No picture of the suicide nets?


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## possumkiller

Is that BRJ?


----------



## Hollowway

possumkiller said:


> Is that BRJ?


I was thinking the same thing. But I don’t think so. If it is, there’s no way in fuck people are going to give the company money, after what they did. At least those of us that got screwed in that deal.


----------



## manu80

Not sure that all the potential buyers know the real story anyways
We’re nerds and gear freaks here, not the average customer who just wanna buy a guitar...


----------



## Merrekof

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 76246


Is that Kyle?


----------



## works0fheart

That new Stealth they've got out (well, both really) is/are pretty nice looking. I'd prefer them to both to have a single pickup option, but oh well. As far as those JRV's go, I wish I could like them, but everyone I've played has had a really weird, stumpy transition on the neck joint. They go from a regular neck to getting pretty wide around the 12th fret or so, or at least the one I played a few years ago did. If they fixed that problem with these ones I might pick one up.


----------



## Fenceclimber

I wouldn't really call WMI a sweatshop but whatever, if it were then I guess all companies that contract them deserve the same criticism? 

I hope BC Rich get some international distribution in 2020, the new Stealth guitars look great.


----------



## spudmunkey

possumkiller said:


> Is that BRJ?


It's their new president or whoever..the guy The Tone King interviewed.


----------



## Randy

Fenceclimber said:


> I wouldn't really call WMI a sweatshop but whatever, if it were then I guess all companies that contract them deserve the same criticism?



I'm being hyperbolic. "BC Rich Headquarters" implies you're looking at the factory, like they own the place. Instead it's a pic of a shipping facility with little to no guitars in sight, and the actual factory is a "what outlines are we cutting out this week?" private label mega-factory in South Korea.

That all kinda implies their brand exists entirely on paper only. Which is fine, but it's definitely confirmation someone essentially bought BCR's IP and they're just Agile/Solar/Chapman-ing them.


----------



## Descent

possumkiller said:


> Is that BRJ?


Charlie Benante from Anthrax?


----------



## spudmunkey

HQ of most large companies that make things are very often not in the building with the factory. No, I'm not equating their size, but Ford and Sony's HQ isnt in a factory.

But it's not in a shipping warehouse either.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Honestly the shit that is being given for this is quite fuckin stupid.

Like who cares if the HQ for BCR is not in the factory where everything is made? Schecter has the same situation, but no one is flaming them.

I mean it is quite petty.


----------



## Fenceclimber

Randy said:


> I'm being hyperbolic. "BC Rich Headquarters" implies you're looking at the factory, like they own the place. Instead it's a pic of a shipping facility with little to no guitars in sight, and the actual factory is a "what outlines are we cutting out this week?" private label mega-factory in South Korea.
> 
> That all kinda implies their brand exists entirely on paper only. Which is fine, but it's definitely confirmation someone essentially bought BCR's IP and they're just Agile/Solar/Chapman-ing them.



Yeah I got that but my point was, and you also bring that up, that BC Rich is far from the only company that solely relies on OEM guitars.
I *really* don't want to derail this thread or anything like that, I just found it odd that people were so quick to criticize BC Rich when this is basically a standard practice that no other guitar company seems to get crap for.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## Randy

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Honestly the shit that is being given for this is quite fuckin stupid.
> 
> Like who cares if the HQ for BCR is not in the factory where everything is made? Schecter has the same situation, but no one is flaming them.
> 
> I mean it is quite petty.



Petty what? What the fuck did BC Rich ever do to me that I have something to be petty about? I'm not the one taking criticism of a guitar company personally. I talk about BC Rich, you feel the need to talk about me.  

This thread started out as speculation BC Rich was dead, and it turns out it essentially was. Somebody bought it up, there was a lot of speculation as to what they were going to do with it. They showed their hand when they decided every guitar was going to be the WMI Special with an helping of 2008 Schecter on top.

I think some of the criticism has been overboard (as I've stated in here multiple times) but the one consistent question is what the fuck are they trying to do branding and identity-wise. Abalone was a universally BAD choice based on the feedback on these, but instead of quietly rolling it back or just sticking with it, they decided to troll their audience over it. They opened themselves up to the criticism.

So when they say "BC RICH HEADQUARTERS!" and there's, idk, no guitars or tools for making or hey, tools for setting up and QC guitars before they go out in sight. Or even, you know, like a sign that says "BC Rich" on it anywhere in sight, yeah, I'm going to crack a fucking joke about it. Lighten up.


----------



## Randy

Fenceclimber said:


> Yeah I got that but my point was, and you also bring that up, that BC Rich is far from the only company that solely relies on OEM guitars.
> I *really* don't want to derail this thread or anything like that, I just found it odd that people were so quick to criticize BC Rich when this is basically a standard practice that no other guitar company seems to get crap for.



Examples? I'm mostly just poking fun, but BC Rich was not a "factory direct" kinda brand before the relaunch.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Y'all are reading too much into it.

I was just making a funny against past regimes.

The last few times a member of the Rico family ran the show they claimed to build everything in-house, even set up tools and shit, but all they did was receive shipments and send stuff out.

Jeez, it's not funny if it has to be explained. 

Also, sort of funny that I'm one of the few here who even knows some history about this basketcase brand, yet folks getting all worked up as if I called their kid ugly have no idea. Calm down guys. BCR will never return the favor. 

Where are those abalone free guitars at?


----------



## narad

MaxOfMetal said:


> Where are those abalone free guitars at?



In transit to the BC Rich... factory?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> In transit to the BC Rich... factory?



Headquarters, goddammit.


----------



## Andromalia

I really don't give a rat's ass where they're made, tbh. Since a US one wouldn't make sense for me (at those prices, I'd rather commission another Amfisound) it will come from asia/mexico anyway if they make one whose specs interest me.


----------



## StevenC

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Honestly the shit that is being given for this is quite fuckin stupid.
> 
> Like who cares if the HQ for BCR is not in the factory where everything is made? Schecter has the same situation, but no one is flaming them.
> 
> I mean it is quite petty.


Schecter has been making guitars in the USA continuously since the 70s and their shipping warehouse is across the street from their US production facility. Schecter HQ, if you were to ask the people in charge of the company, is the custom shop and always has been.


----------



## spudmunkey

It'd also worth noting that BC Rich's "US Custom Shop" is actually 4 shops.


----------



## D-EJ915

StevenC said:


> Schecter has been making guitars in the USA continuously since the 70s and their shipping warehouse is across the street from their US production facility. Schecter HQ, if you were to ask the people in charge of the company, is the custom shop and always has been.


Schecter was also pretty much a bunch of nobodies on life support until they started the Diamond series though lol. They died when all their guys left to start their own brands. They don't hide this and you can read it on their about page lol.


----------



## SandyRavage

Also worth noting that their ‘custom shops’ are receiving guitar blanks from their overseas vendors and putting finishing touches on them, paint, etc. 

IMHO good way to control consistent quality and keep costs down but I’m curious how it’s going to pan out long term.


----------



## Cynicanal

Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression that the blanks were still coming from their shop in Tijuana, like they always have.


----------



## SandyRavage

One of my employees works with Jason Hook fairly often. So I suppose third hand speculation and fanning internet stuff but is what it is. 

Take it as a grain of salt but you heard it here first.


----------



## Zado

Lol.


----------



## Albake21

Geez they're really stretching it with that one.


----------



## Randy

So wait, there's a Shredzilla guitar model but the carve is also called Shredzilla?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> So wait, there's a Shredzilla guitar model but the carve is also called Shredzilla?



It's such a great name, why not use it for everything?


----------



## ThePIGI King

Randy said:


> So wait, there's a Shredzilla guitar model but the carve is also called Shredzilla?


With Shredzilla pickups and bridge. And don't forget the limited zilla finish with a nice shred burst over the Monster Energy infused burl showcased in the Blue Oyeter Cult parody Shredzilla.

Using zilla cabs obviously.


----------



## Randy

ThePIGI King said:


> the Blue Oyeter Cult parody Shredzilla.



Congratulations, now we've got another 5FDP cover on the way.


----------



## zappatton2

I like the cutaway. The Shredzilla name, not as much. It doesn't fail to entertain though


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's such a great name, why not use it for everything?



Have you seen my new Kiesel Kiesel Edition K series with the Kiesel trem and K inlay?


But to kiesel's credit, their new Headless Delos doesn't even have their brand name on it: just that "K" on the pickguard. And if it uses the same pickguard as the headstocked Delos, you could even swap that out.


----------



## exo

So......Megadeth is “officially” back in action, there’s a curious lack of “Dean Dave Mustaine sig” activity....and they’re touring Europe as FFDP’s opener...

If we don’t get a both a doubleneck Bich AND Jr. V as Mustaine sigs out of this, we all just need to give fuck all about BCR......


----------



## Bdtunn

^
Make it happen!


----------



## Bdtunn




----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

exo said:


> So......Megadeth is “officially” back in action, there’s a curious lack of “Dean Dave Mustaine sig” activity....and they’re touring Europe as FFDP’s opener...
> 
> If we don’t get a both a doubleneck Bich AND Jr. V as Mustaine sigs out of this, we all just need to give fuck all about BCR......



Rumors are pointing at Gibson/Kramer unfortunately.


----------



## ThePIGI King

exo said:


> So......Megadeth is “officially” back in action, there’s a curious lack of “Dean Dave Mustaine sig” activity....and they’re touring Europe as FFDP’s opener...
> 
> If we don’t get a both a doubleneck Bich AND Jr. V as Mustaine sigs out of this, we all just need to give fuck all about BCR......


Wait...Megadeth _*OPENING*_ for those guys? Talk about seeing the opening act then leaving


----------



## watson503

ThePIGI King said:


> Wait...Megadeth _*OPENING*_ for those guys? Talk about seeing the opening act then leaving


No shit...! I had to google that and yeah, they are opening for them...

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/d...to-support-five-finger-death-punch-in-europe/


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

That's fucking sad and pathetic. I love Megadeth, but I would not go and see them on this tour. I would not support or condone that horse shit.


----------



## works0fheart

Holy fuck man, threads get derailed on this forum so hard that it may as well just be called trainwreck.org instead lol


----------



## Trainwreck

works0fheart said:


> Holy fuck man, threads get derailed on this forum so hard that it may as well just be called trainwreck.org instead lol


Leave me out of this please.


----------



## BusinessMan

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's such a great name, why not use it for everything?



It’s like when “Aladeen” switched positive and negative to “Aladeen” and ”Aladeen”.


----------



## 777timesgod

Even though there is not a snowball's chance in hell, I would like to see the I.T. series back. I loved the feeling of those necks and with a few mods you could end up with a great guitar. Prices were low too and I deeply regret not buying the prototype for these (400 dollars), it was a Jr. V with a single EMG pickup and lasered BC Rich ghost logo if I recall.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

777timesgod said:


> View attachment 76366
> 
> Even though there is not a snowball's chance in hell, I would like to see the I.T. series back. I loved the feeling of those necks and with a few mods you could end up with a great guitar. Prices were low too and I deeply regret not buying the prototype for these (400 dollars), it was a Jr. V with a single EMG pickup and lasered BC Rich ghost logo if I recall.




I think Bill Xavier in his interview with TTK mentioned about doing something or looking into the IT series if I can recall.


----------



## 777timesgod

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I think Bill Xavier in his interview with TTK mentioned about doing something or looking into the IT series if I can recall.



Fingers crossed then, even if its full abalone. 
Also on another note, if one were to buy a 10 string bridge like the ones used on the 10 string Bich, where could he do so? I do not see such a piece on Moser's site and googling it does not help.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

So digging around on Neal Mosers site I found the old school quad bridge for 10 string https://www.nealmoserguitars.com/st...e~1~1-available-in-sae-and-metric-threads~1~1

But for a newer style wrap around as pictured, stew mac has similar ones, any of them should work just file a slot on the appropriate saddle for the second set of strings. https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_an...tar_Bridges/Adjustable_Wraparound_Bridge.html


----------



## twguitar

Yeah I got Kahler to do a limited run of the original brass quads, both 6 & 10 string. Can’t recommend them enough, a solid chunk of brass is always a good upgrade. Neal has them and Kahler sell them on their site.


----------



## sirbuh

Looks like the legacy stealths are landing


----------



## 777timesgod

wedge_destroyer said:


> So digging around on Neal Mosers site I found the old school quad bridge for 10 string https://www.nealmoserguitars.com/st...e~1~1-available-in-sae-and-metric-threads~1~1
> 
> But for a newer style wrap around as pictured, stew mac has similar ones, any of them should work just file a slot on the appropriate saddle for the second set of strings. https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_an...tar_Bridges/Adjustable_Wraparound_Bridge.html



Thanks, I do not know why I missed those pages.

Just passed by BC rich's CS page and they still have Kerry King front and centre... Slow update guy or is it true that there are parallel shops being run and some may close?


----------



## beerandbeards

sirbuh said:


> Looks like the legacy stealths are landing



if they actually do... I may get one. I don’t preorder anymore, too many delays


----------



## beerandbeards

Never mind, I’ll wait to see this


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

beerandbeards said:


> Never mind, I’ll wait to see this




Yeah man. They seem to promising a lot of stuff so hopefully the can make it all come to fruition


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The Chuck reissue was one of the first things they talked about releasing. If anthing they BETTER release it because they've been teasing it pretty constantly


----------



## gunshow86de

Not going to NAMM the year you are relaunching seems like a shrewd business move tbh.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

gunshow86de said:


> Not going to NAMM the year you are relaunching seems like a shrewd business move tbh.



It's smart. 

NAMM is fading in relevance. Social media can get you much further and it's a fraction of the cost.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

gunshow86de said:


> Not going to NAMM the year you are relaunching seems like a shrewd business move tbh.





MaxOfMetal said:


> It's smart.
> 
> NAMM is fading in relevance. Social media can get you much further and it's a fraction of the cost.




Bill said that he rather spend the money associated with namm like a booth and a getting the stuff out there etc. On marketing is what he told me.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Bring back the Eagle with the same appointments as the Mock Legacy series.


----------



## SlamLiguez

How much are the ironbirds running? I emailed a dealer and never got a response.


----------



## ExplorerMike

SlamLiguez said:


> How much are the ironbirds running? I emailed a dealer and never got a response.



I think everything is in the $1200-1500 range.


----------



## trem licking

welp, bc rich won namm and they weren't even there haha


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hmm


----------



## Vostre Roy

As long as the headstock is an inline one, I don't give a damn which model they use, this is the guitar I'm waiting for. 7 strings IB, no binding, black color and single humbucker? 

My money is ready


----------



## Adieu

StevenC said:


> Schecter has been making guitars in the USA continuously since the 70s and their shipping warehouse is across the street from their US production facility. Schecter HQ, if you were to ask the people in charge of the company, is the custom shop and always has been.



Schecter is a de jure separate entity run by the same Japanese dude who owns ESP, as what appears to be a test platform for fine-tuning alternate marketing approaches and stealth-piloting products as a faux-competitor to their main brands

The fact that it bears the name of some Cali shop they bought a few decades back is fairly irrelevant to its current situation


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Adieu said:


> Schecter is a de jure separate entity run by the same Japanese dude who owns ESP, as what appears to be a test platform for fine-tuning alternate marketing approaches and stealth-piloting products as a faux-competitor to their main brands
> 
> The fact that it bears the name of some Cali shop they bought a few decades back is fairly irrelevant to its current situation



I thought that too a decade or so ago, but product lines from both companies has proven otherwise. 

I think around 08'/09' was peak "ESP and Schecter are the same".


----------



## zenonshandro

Adieu said:


> Schecter is a de jure separate entity run by the same Japanese dude who owns ESP, as what appears to be a test platform for fine-tuning alternate marketing approaches and stealth-piloting products as a faux-competitor to their main brands



So Schecter is the proverbial pigeon-inlay in the coal mine?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

mmmm yesss 7 string ironbird


----------



## SlamLiguez

I don't even play sevens anymore but I need that sharp single pup in my loife


----------



## Loomer

This just in:

Rando on Instagram finally reaches limit for how many Instagram-stories with live shots of Zoltan Bathory or Chris Kael he can stomach.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Loomer said:


> This just in:
> 
> Rando on Instagram finally reaches limit for how many Instagram-stories with live shots of Zoltan Bathory or Chris Kael he can stomach.




Pretty sure you sent that


----------



## spudmunkey

Stories are for garbage on almost all instagram accounts, IMO.* FWIW, posts of the band aren't on their actual feed for about 2 months.


*_The worst ones are "Check out my new post!" and then another zoomed-in/cropped image with animated emoji with "New post!! Swipe up to check it out!!". "Song of the day" posts, too._


----------



## KnightBrolaire

spudmunkey said:


> Stories are for garbage on almost all instagram accounts, IMO.* FWIW, posts of the band aren't on their actual feed for about 2 months.
> 
> 
> *_The worst ones are "Check out my new post!" and then another zoomed-in/cropped image with animated emoji with "New post!! Swipe up to check it out!!". "Song of the day" posts, too._


for real. I get my hopes up whenever @Purelojik posts stuff on IG, but it's mostly cold brew coffee vids instead of more sweeet guitar porn


----------



## Loomer

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Pretty sure you sent that



Slander!


----------



## trem licking

Shredzilla 8 fr incoming... Will post back after i strangle it for a bit and see how she rides


----------



## tedtan

Loomer said:


> Slander!



Eh, I'd take it as a compliment.


----------



## Loomer

Also, I totally didn't send this because I am absolutely not just resigned to seeing how thin-skinned these dudes are before they block me. I won't be reporting back what happened, seeing as I am no way intending to make fun of the man or band who are the sonic and aesthetic equivalent of saluting/masturbating to the flag while zonked to high Jupiter off cheap Meth. I would never do such a thing. Never ever.


----------



## Loomer

spudmunkey said:


> Stories are for garbage on almost all instagram accounts, IMO.* FWIW, posts of the band aren't on their actual feed for about 2 months.
> 
> 
> *_The worst ones are "Check out my new post!" and then another zoomed-in/cropped image with animated emoji with "New post!! Swipe up to check it out!!". "Song of the day" posts, too._



Oh absolutely. But then again there's also thirst trapping, which I think is a proud and noble tradition indeed.


----------



## efiltsohg

Pretty weak trolling tbh

like I said pages and pages ago, we get it, you don't like the brand, why are you still posting in this thread


----------



## Loomer

efiltsohg said:


> Pretty weak trolling tbh
> 
> like I said pages and pages ago, we get it, you don't like the brand, why are you still posting in this thread



Oh, I like the brand. I just don't like the direction it's taking. And sometimes weak trolling is enough, but other times.. One just isn't really willing to put in more effort than that. Even I have standards.


----------



## Tuned

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Honestly the shit that is being given for this is quite fuckin stupid.
> 
> Like who cares if the HQ for BCR is not in the factory where everything is made? Schecter has the same situation, but no one is flaming them.
> 
> I mean it is quite petty.


It depends.
The address of the HQ of Schecter Japan totally meets the address of the ESP Takada.


----------



## Loomer

Also, I went and summed up some of my "thoughts" (it is me we're dealing with here so let's not oversell it) about the whole thing in an instagram post and well... 

First off, I am starstruck as shit that John McEntee commented on the post within minutes. That rules.
Also, hilariously enough both Blood Incantation and John McEntee have im fact reached out but have been effectively ghosted and ignored by the company completely. I don't know what to say here except for what the fuck. 
John McEntee, a man and dead-ass legend who has played BC Rich for over three decades doesn't even get a reply..


----------



## ArtDecade

Lita Ford in on this?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Loomer said:


> Also, I went and summed up some of my "thoughts" (it is me we're dealing with here so let's not oversell it) about the whole thing in an instagram post and well...
> 
> First off, I am starstruck as shit that John McEntee commented on the post within minutes. That rules.
> Also, hilariously enough both Blood Incantation and John McEntee have im fact reached out but have been effectively ghosted and ignored by the company completely. I don't know what to say here except for what the fuck.
> John McEntee, a man and dead-ass legend who has played BC Rich for over three decades doesn't even get a reply..


This new BC Rich apparently has zero sense of history and is one man's masturbation session to stroke his ego boner and fuel his bank account at the same time.


----------



## Purelojik

KnightBrolaire said:


> for real. I get my hopes up whenever @Purelojik posts stuff on IG, but it's mostly cold brew coffee vids instead of more sweeet guitar porn



Hahahaha yessssss. Ive been on a cold brew binge but recently got really sick with some lower respiratory bug thats been going around. In my time staying at home i've piled up my woods for my next projects. There will be a plethora of Wood Porn ahead for sure. but yea cold brew did take over for a spell


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Loomer said:


> Slander!




Not slander if it is facts lol.



Loomer said:


> Also, I totally didn't send this because I am absolutely not just resigned to seeing how thin-skinned these dudes are before they block me. I won't be reporting back what happened, seeing as I am no way intending to make fun of the man or band who are the sonic and aesthetic equivalent of saluting/masturbating to the flag while zonked to high Jupiter off cheap Meth. I would never do such a thing. Never ever.



Seems you have a beef with FFDP. I don't like em, but damn they must've hurt yeah.

If I had the same opinions you hold towards bands that also might have a certain political/stance that you don't agree with then I wouldn't be listening to most bands since they don't politically align with me. Cut the bull brah


----------



## Loomer

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Not slander if it is facts lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems you have a beef with FFDP. I don't like em, but damn they must've hurt yeah.
> 
> If I had the same opinions you hold towards bands that also might have a certain political/stance that you don't agree with then I wouldn't be listening to most bands since they don't politically align with me. Cut the bull brah



1) The discussion around politics was supposed to be dead and done now. Let's focus on the baffling marketing strategy and ghosting of long-loyal artists, because we'll never agree on politics anyway. I do think, however, that we can agree that completely ignoring people like John McEntee and others is a weird move to make. 

2) I do, in fact, have a considerable amount of artists I decline to support due to my principles, but thanks for the strawman, I guess.

3) I don't have a grudge against FFDP, but I do love me some low-hanging fruit when it comes to making jokes, and not many hang any lower than FFDP. 

4) Sadly, in this age of Spotify and major labels, there is truly canyon-wide distinction between listening to an artists music, and actually supporting them financially. Buying a guitar from a company someone is an investor in, lands them far more money directly than even thousands of Spotify streams ever will. I think this distinction is worth remembering, lest we end up with some serious false equivalence.


----------



## jonsick

Loomer said:


> 4) Sadly, in this age of Spotify and major labels, there is truly canyon-wide distinction between listening to an artists music, and actually supporting them financially. Buying a guitar from a company someone is an investor in, lands them far more money directly than even thousands of Spotify streams ever will. I think this distinction is worth remembering, lest we end up with some serious false equivalence.



I didn't want to start a political war on t'interwebs, but why not.

Personally I don't see much wrong with the way BC Rich are going at the moment especially compared to how it's been for a decade or more. My only concern really is availability to the UK market, but I'm sure that will come.

I have no idea if Zoltan Bathory is indeed the main man of BC Rich, I just take it as he is here for sake of argument. But frankly, given this divide that you describe (and I actually agree with), it doesn't seem so far fetched that musicians will look to ancillary markets to prop up their careers. Iron Maiden started it with their beers! There are a tonne of bands out there right now sporting some ethanol-based beverage with their brand on it. Frankly if ZB has bought a flailing but iconic brand and brought it back from the brink of destruction, then I don't see how he's done anything but made a shrewd investment. I'm sure there are many BC Rich fans who at some point wondered "What if I could afford to buy out BC Rich, what would I do?"

It seems to me this is exactly what has happened. OK I don't like FFDP either, I think they suck. But at the end of the day, BCR are putting out some classic shapes with enough options and flavours to appeal to the old school and potential new school alike. I don't like every offering they have but I get the feeling that's the strategy. There's stuff there to appeal to people into the more "modern" stuff with their 8 strings and quilt tops that look like christmas trees, and there's more standard stuff that a middle-aged moron who still remembers how awesome 90s BCRs looked and played and actually want a decent instrument instead of a terribly made Chinese Bronze series someone is pushing out for £500. 

I have no idea if I'm agreeing with you or not. I have no horse in this race. But hey if ZB is lining his pockets while doing what it seems nobody else could or would do, fair play!


----------



## Loomer

jonsick said:


> I didn't want to start a political war on t'interwebs, but why not.
> 
> Personally I don't see much wrong with the way BC Rich are going at the moment especially compared to how it's been for a decade or more. My only concern really is availability to the UK market, but I'm sure that will come.
> 
> I have no idea if Zoltan Bathory is indeed the main man of BC Rich, I just take it as he is here for sake of argument. But frankly, given this divide that you describe (and I actually agree with), it doesn't seem so far fetched that musicians will look to ancillary markets to prop up their careers. Iron Maiden started it with their beers! There are a tonne of bands out there right now sporting some ethanol-based beverage with their brand on it. Frankly if ZB has bought a flailing but iconic brand and brought it back from the brink of destruction, then I don't see how he's done anything but made a shrewd investment. I'm sure there are many BC Rich fans who at some point wondered "What if I could afford to buy out BC Rich, what would I do?"
> 
> It seems to me this is exactly what has happened. OK I don't like FFDP either, I think they suck. But at the end of the day, BCR are putting out some classic shapes with enough options and flavours to appeal to the old school and potential new school alike. I don't like every offering they have but I get the feeling that's the strategy. There's stuff there to appeal to people into the more "modern" stuff with their 8 strings and quilt tops that look like christmas trees, and there's more standard stuff that a middle-aged moron who still remembers how awesome 90s BCRs looked and played and actually want a decent instrument instead of a terribly made Chinese Bronze series someone is pushing out for £500.
> 
> I have no idea if I'm agreeing with you or not. I have no horse in this race. But hey if ZB is lining his pockets while doing what it seems nobody else could or would do, fair play!



I think you're halfway agreeing with me, because the thing has sort of kept me on this ball is summed up in your line about the "shrewd investment" bit: It is indeed fair play that someone with a fanbase as large as Zoltan invests in something new that he can sell to his established audience. The band already has merch up the wazoo, CBD oil and God knows what else they make bank off selling to their fans. Where the "shrewd" bit falls apart a bit for me, then, is that they are marketing SO HARD to that demographic and effectively ignoring everyone else. That would make a great deal of sense had they started up a new brand from scratch, and given Zoltan's existing level of success and exposure, I think they would have done quite well!
The baffling bit is that they bought out something which has such a long-standing cult following and such an iconic standing in one of the most resilient subcultures of modern history, de facto a built-in hyper-loyal fanbase that was not only growing steadily even when the brand was dead/dying, but chomping at the bit to go forward, and then COMPLETELY ignore them. Like, you had a pretty large segment of folks who were ready, willing and able to help it get off the ground and then you ignore them?! Why? I get that underground metal is a smaller demographic, but for a (re-)start-up of a brand, that is a golden opportunity for playing it safe at first, consolidating and then building off that. Instead they went with a market that was/is already quite saturated already. That's not bad either, it seems to have worked out, I guess, but even just paying *some* small amount of lip service to the folks keeping the name alive for decades would have lent some credibility to it all, and only added to the overall hype. But they didn't. They, as I've learned now, didn't even contact or reply to anyone and it baffles me to no end how they just left that free promotion on the table without using it.

EDIT: To clarify a bit, I am utilising a theoretical device I heard from youtuber Peter Coffin which is that "in the marketplace of ideas, attention is currency", meaning that the robustness of ideas, or lack thereof, can be compensated for with sufficient promotion and platforming. Like we see when objectively inferior products still sell more due to stronger advertising and branding. 
This, then, is where I tie it into BC Rich and have to warp that idea a bit: In a demographic as image-focused as the Metal and musician community, perceived "credibility" is also a form of currency. And BC Rich has/had the opportunity to cash in on literal boatloads of that. There are legends like Terrence Hobbs, Erik Rutan, John McEntee, Trey Azagthoth and countless, countless others who could tie the new endeavour to a strong legacy and given them a ton of "cool points" which would have cost them almost nothing. Newer bands like Blood Incantation do so well that even non-metal media is putting them on AOTY lists. Again, free promotion left unused. It mystifies me why they didn't jump on this, because it would have cost them nothing, and they could still focus on the non-cult non-nerdass demo simultaneously without missing a beat.


----------



## jonsick

Loomer said:


> Snip



I do half way get where you're coming from. The old school guys who used BC Rich for years are effectively being ignored. I get that that hurts, but simply to play devil's advocate and refute a little bit...

- Not to insult John McEntee, but bands like Incantation, Suffocation, Immolation etc are not what I would call the forerunners of metal. While you and I have heard of these bands, most likely enjoyed their arguably best output (for me it was Diabolical Conquest), if you walk down the lines of almost any metal show by the likes of Slipknot, FFDP et al, I would wager most would struggle to conjure an image of those bands, let alone have a clue that John McEntee was even involved. Hence I would throw a guess that Slipknot makes more $$$ in a year than Suffocation. Just for anecdotal evidence, I saw Slipknot with Behemoth supporting recently and I am still baffled as to how less than a handful of people around me even knew who Behemoth even were. I mean, for real!?

- So moving on from that, it's arguable as to whether Zoltan (if he even is in charge of artist relations or indeed anything to do with BC Rich at all) knows much about the legacy of the BC Rich roster. Hell I remember Max Cavalera throwing Warlocks around the stage, but even he is mostly regarded as an ESP Viper player these days.

- It seems to me that BC Rich has had a significant amount of investment. Getting guitars of that quality and a line up that diverse takes a lot of money to do! Buying the brand in and of itself is a drop in the ocean. Each of those guitars would have had to have been designed, a builder selected, prototypes shipping around the world with various revisions, some sort of deal in place to bulk buy hardware (especially Fishman Fluence pickups it seems). It's basically a rebuilt-from-scratch company behaving like a company that has had the legacy and capital of Jackson, ESP, Fender etc. That's a shed-load of money.

- So given the above, could it not be argued that after this expenditure, BC Rich is probably doesn't have the capital to throw guitars and the relevant costs besides at probably anybody! The support an endorsee would require on tour is an expensive operation. 

- Even if John McEntee did get furnished with a shiny USA model of his own custom spec, how many Incantation fans would be running out to buy a signature guitar based on his spec? Probably most of them (at least the ones who are guitar players). But that signature doesn't mean much to the average Slipknot-type metal kid.

What I'm saying is in a nutshell, even if BC Rich were in a position to throw a whole bunch of endorsements around, given the amount of investment of capital that has already gone into the intellectual properties and getting stock built, distribution agreed and the various other instruments of rebuilding the brand, surely they would need someone of a calibre that could shift a good bunch of instruments? Again not to offend John McEntee, I just don't think Incantation is strong enough to fulfil that requirement. At least not yet - maybe in a few years. 

Again to support that, brands like Jackson and ESP are far more established with more disposable capital behind them to take risks. E.g. I'm still surprised that David Davidson's endorsement with Jackson is still going! I'll take it for sure, but Revocation to me don't seem like a huge band - or maybe their audience in the states is markedly bigger than the UK? I don't know. I mean, Satchel getting a signature Charvel makes sense (and it's a good guitar). Plenty marketability to Steel Panther, way more than Revocation to my eyes. 

Like I say, I would just proffer that likely BC Rich are in a situation of "OK we've spent a massive whack of cash, we need to make some back now to grow and reinvest!"

Unless of course Zoltan is being funded by the sinaloa cartel of course... ya never know!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Loomer is trolling the fuck out of you guys.


----------



## pastanator

ok loomer


----------



## ArtDecade

Loomer


----------



## mlp187

So i've been building my ideal shredilla in gimp - and here is where i'm at:
7 string
Candy apple red metallic (fine flake) w/ pearloid binding all the way around
Gloss finish
Rosewood fretboard, blank, 26.5" scale
Chrome hardware
Bridge pickup only

That's it. I have money set aside for that just in case something remarkably similar appears on the market.
Also, I just really wanted a chance to be the person who says, "i'd buy one if <bullshit here>." You know what, it feels terrible. Don't be that person. 

Hugs, kisses, and joy to all of this thread's participants.


----------



## Damon67

Man, reading these posts... I have to remind myself it's supposedly a site about guitars.

Here's a picture to help us remember why we're all here...


----------



## Hollowway

Damon67 said:


> Man, reading these posts... I have to remind myself it's supposedly a site about guitars.
> 
> Here's a picture to help us remember why we're all here...


Did you get any of the Spalted ‘zilla 8s in yet?


----------



## Damon67

Hollowway said:


> Did you get any of the Spalted ‘zilla 8s in yet?


Middle left... site will be updated tonight I hope.

Unless you mean the flattop Extreme with the kill switch and Fluence pickups. Still waiting on that one.


----------



## Hollowway

@trem licking you got the red one?

I’m probably going to get the spalted one so I can immediately start complaining that no one makes a Floyd 9.


----------



## beerandbeards

Damon67 said:


> Here's a picture to help us remember why we're all here...



This is why i’m here


----------



## trem licking

Hollowway said:


> @trem licking you got the red one?
> 
> I’m probably going to get the spalted one so I can immediately start complaining that no one makes a Floyd 9.


I got the spalted one!


----------



## Hollowway

trem licking said:


> I got the spalted one!


Whoa! Did it arrive yet? I await your NGD! I’ll order mine soon!


----------



## trem licking

Hollowway said:


> Whoa! Did it arrive yet? I await your NGD! I’ll order mine soon!


It's on it's way, should get here by monday i hope... Got my custom strings ordered to slap on right away and i will be going over it with a fine tooth comb


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

mlp187 said:


> So i've been building my ideal shredilla in gimp - and here is where i'm at:
> 7 string
> Candy apple red metallic (fine flake) w/ pearloid binding all the way around
> Gloss finish
> Rosewood fretboard, blank, 26.5" scale
> Chrome hardware
> Bridge pickup only
> 
> That's it. I have money set aside for that just in case something remarkably similar appears on the market.
> Also, I just really wanted a chance to be the person who says, "i'd buy one if <bullshit here>." You know what, it feels terrible. Don't be that person.
> 
> Hugs, kisses, and joy to all of this thread's participants.



bro ebony on that and it would look hot. Also why not MOP??


----------



## spudmunkey

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> bro ebony on that and it would look hot. Also why not MOP??



If he's actually talking about binding, you wouldn't want it to be real shell. What BC Rich has been doing is purfling in abalone, but would also be the appropriate use for mother of pearl.


----------



## manu80

With what they release real MOP mean no more shells on earth ever


----------



## mlp187

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> bro ebony on that and it would look hot. Also why not MOP??


These are good questions... I am equally on-board with both!


----------



## Damon67

Pointy, black, Floyded sevenstrings...












Mmmm... Just look at all the lovely abalone!


----------



## Damon67

Pointy, spalted, Floyded sevenstrings...


----------



## Mathemagician

I’ve now completely 180’d and am now awaiting a solid abalone top with matching headstock and FB. The dot inlays and name on headstock will be the only things in a solid color. Pickups? Scorched covered pickups to match the abalone. Going all in.


----------



## Xraiderman12

I try my hardest not to get too deep into these discussions, but I must say that there is a lot of bullshit being spewed around that is not really called for. If you guys want to have some positive active dialog about BCR count me in.

1- For the Record, not one USA made guitar from us is made from an imported core from Korea, Japan, Mexico or wherever some idiot posted. We make Import guitars in Korea and USA ones in USA.... Yes we make USA models in several different locations in the USA, we want the best luthiers we can find.

2- We do not copy others, we have been using abalone 14-years before other companies even existed.

3- Yea our headquarters is a warehouse out in Orlando Florida that we own. Our new Los Angeles Showroom is almost ready
to be opened to all that want to visit. You can come see Kyle there...


----------



## Trainwreck

Xraiderman12 said:


> I try my hardest not to get too deep into these discussions, but I must say that there is a lot of bullshit being spewed around that is not really called for. If you guys want to have some positive active dialog about BCR count me in.
> 
> 1- For the Record, not one USA made guitar from us is made from an imported core from Korea, Japan, Mexico or wherever some idiot posted. We make Import guitars in Korea and USA ones in USA.... Yes we make USA models in several different locations in the USA, we want the best luthiers we can find.
> 
> 2- We do not copy others, we have been using abalone 14-years before other companies even existed.
> 
> 3- Yea our headquarters is a warehouse out in Orlando Florida that we own. Our new Los Angeles Showroom is almost ready
> to be opened to all that want to visit. You can come see Kyle there...


While your here, can you bring back the 80's era STIII's please ? Also the larger reverse headstock ?
Thank you.


----------



## Xraiderman12

Trainwreck said:


> While your here, can you bring back the 80's era STIII's please ? Also the larger reverse headstock ?
> Thank you.


Yes but as a neck thru!


----------



## Trainwreck

Xraiderman12 said:


> Yes but as a neck thru!


Please don't tease me like that, if it wasn't for BC Rich guitars I could afford to buy a van to live in next to the river.


----------



## Damon67

Nice to see Xraiderman12 joining in. Welcome Kyle! Or is it BJR?

And now, back to the show.

Pointed, quilted, 27" scaled, Floyded eightstrings...


----------



## BusinessMan

Damon67 said:


> Nice to see Xraiderman12 joining in. Welcome Kyle! Or is it BJR?
> 
> And now, back to the show.
> 
> Pointed, quilted, 27" scaled, Floyded eightstrings...



That’s hot. Would totally get it if I had $1700 laying around


----------



## Damon67

Pointed, spalted, 27" scaled, Floyded eightstrings...


----------



## Trainwreck

Oh boy, here comes the custom orders. Lol.


----------



## trem licking

Wait... Do these models have solid tops? I did not realize these had thickass maple tops on them till now, i see the line. Thats awesome


----------



## MaxOfMetal

trem licking said:


> Wait... Do these models have solid tops? I did not realize these had thickass maple tops on them till now, i see the line. Thats awesome



Looks like plain maple with a veneer on top.


----------



## cardinal

@Xraiderman12 or @Damon67 What is the fretboard radius of the 8-string with the Floyd? That nut has something like an 18" radius (the bridge is around 20" but can be shimmed at least to match something else). Thanks!


----------



## trem licking

Xraiderman12 said:


> I try my hardest not to get too deep into these discussions, but I must say that there is a lot of bullshit being spewed around that is not really called for. If you guys want to have some positive active dialog about BCR count me in.
> 
> 1- For the Record, not one USA made guitar from us is made from an imported core from Korea, Japan, Mexico or wherever some idiot posted. We make Import guitars in Korea and USA ones in USA.... Yes we make USA models in several different locations in the USA, we want the best luthiers we can find.
> 
> 2- We do not copy others, we have been using abalone 14-years before other companies even existed.
> 
> 3- Yea our headquarters is a warehouse out in Orlando Florida that we own. Our new Los Angeles Showroom is almost ready
> to be opened to all that want to visit. You can come see Kyle there...


Will shredzilla hard cases be available soon? Just got one of those spalted 8 string floyd badasses and would like the case to go with it


----------



## beerandbeards

@Xraiderman12 sooooo when is the Chuck Schuldiner Tribute coming out?


----------



## High Plains Drifter

I currently own only one abalone bound guitar and although I'm not necessarily a fan of that aesthetic, it's honestly one of the best playing/ best feeling guitars out of about 20 that I own... fantastic fretwork and a tonal monster. I can't imagine not having it... never playing it. These recently posted BCR's here are absolutely stunning... abalone compliments them both. Fretwork and finishing appear immaculate. If their affordable production guitars look like this and play as good as they look, I'd def check one out. Cheers!


----------



## cardinal

Oh, and just a PSA for the 8-string Floyds: be sure that the 8th string is seated on the saddle itself.

I assume most 8-string players have experienced this issue before, but I've noticed it particularly with all of my Floyd 8 guitars: the string tension alone doesn't seem to be enough to bend the string over to lay flat against the saddle. I've had to lock the string in, tune up, and then pull the string out of the saddle and bend it a bit more by hand to make sure that the string lays flat against the saddle. Otherwise, the intonation is all messed up.


----------



## prlgmnr

Witness!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Oh, and just a PSA for the 8-string Floyds: be sure that the 8th string is seated on the saddle itself.
> 
> I assume most 8-string players have experienced this issue before, but I've noticed it particularly with all of my Floyd 8 guitars: the string tension alone doesn't seem to be enough to bend the string over to lay flat against the saddle. I've had to lock the string in, tune up, and then pull the string out of the saddle and bend it a bit more by hand to make sure that the string lays flat against the saddle. Otherwise, the intonation is all messed up.



Grab the end of the strings with some needle nose pliers and "wrap" the end around the tip of the pliers. It's the perfect angle to bend the string into a small enough loop for the bridge.


----------



## trem licking

cardinal said:


> Oh, and just a PSA for the 8-string Floyds: be sure that the 8th string is seated on the saddle itself.
> 
> I assume most 8-string players have experienced this issue before, but I've noticed it particularly with all of my Floyd 8 guitars: the string tension alone doesn't seem to be enough to bend the string over to lay flat against the saddle. I've had to lock the string in, tune up, and then pull the string out of the saddle and bend it a bit more by hand to make sure that the string lays flat against the saddle. Otherwise, the intonation is all messed up.


Really? I've had good luck so far just stretching the bajeezus out of the string before clamping the nut. I use super light gauges tho... .68 for low f# at 28" scale


----------



## Zanmato86

Damon67 said:


> Nice to see Xraiderman12 joining in. Welcome Kyle! Or is it BJR?
> 
> And now, back to the show.
> 
> Pointed, quilted, 27" scaled, Floyded eightstrings...


That is absolute filth. Complete filth.


----------



## Hollowway

cardinal said:


> Oh, and just a PSA for the 8-string Floyds: be sure that the 8th string is seated on the saddle itself.
> 
> I assume most 8-string players have experienced this issue before, but I've noticed it particularly with all of my Floyd 8 guitars: the string tension alone doesn't seem to be enough to bend the string over to lay flat against the saddle. I've had to lock the string in, tune up, and then pull the string out of the saddle and bend it a bit more by hand to make sure that the string lays flat against the saddle. Otherwise, the intonation is all messed up.


I found the same thing with Kahlers, too. I have to pre-bend them (like Max said) to get it to press up against the cam. I made a thread on here like 10 years ago about it. I think it’s a good PSA for anyone getting an 8 string trem.


----------



## wedge_destroyer

Hollowway said:


> I found the same thing with Kahlers, too. I have to pre-bend them (like Max said) to get it to press up against the cam. I made a thread on here like 10 years ago about it. I think it’s a good PSA for anyone getting an 8 string trem.



Any one with a kahler not just 8 strings. It helps a bit on all of them.


----------



## MikeH

Holy fuck...

They _nailed_ this.


----------



## gunshow86de

^
I don't see the IG story, is that confirmed as the production Ironbird? The flamed neck make me think it's a CS/USA.


----------



## Loomer

Just saw that story literally seconds ago and I admit I cracked a smile. Finally something I can get behind, in terms of aesthetics.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I dunno, looks kinda CS.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yeah, those look like they're using magnetic back plates, which aren't on the imports.


----------



## Damon67

That 'bird's USA CS.

Here's an import to chew on...


----------



## olejason

I know the nickel hardware is tradition but I really like the all black look of the CS


----------



## MikeH

Strange. I didn’t know their shop was still taking orders. Regardless, hopefully they realize what the people want and put something close to that into production. I’m an Ibanez whore, and I’d still buy an import version of that to quell my want for an extreme shape.


----------



## StrmRidr

I would be perfectly happy with an import version of that Ironbird without the fancy flamed maple neck. All black, single pickup, mean looking, it checks most boxes for me.


----------



## vilk

MikeH said:


> View attachment 77265
> 
> Holy fuck...
> 
> They _nailed_ this.



Show me the headstock!!


----------



## spudmunkey

vilk said:


> Show me the headstock!!



It's headless. [Trollface]


----------



## Randy

MikeH said:


> Strange. I didn’t know their shop was still taking orders. Regardless, hopefully they realize what the people want and put something close to that into production. I’m an Ibanez whore, and I’d still buy an import version of that to quell my want for an extreme shape.



Probably isn't a customer guitar or at least one done the "traditional" way. I noticed they roll out a couple of CS shots here and there to show their range, so I wouldn't be surprised that's going to be a shop/NAMM exclusive in-stock kinda thing.

Still pretty cool. Hopefully we get some kind of import version of this. Trying to match those specs would probably make it astronomically expensive but I could definitely roll with this with, say, bolt on with an OEM pickup and maybe an FR Special in the sub-$1000 price range.


----------



## spudmunkey

Randy said:


> Still pretty cool. Hopefully we get some kind of import version of this. Trying to match those specs would probably make it astronomically expensive but I could definitely roll with this with, say, bolt on with an OEM pickup and maybe an FR Special in the sub-$1000 price range.



I wouldnt hold my breath. They seem pretty adamant that every guitat they build, even their import lines, are all going to be neck-through, and they dont be chasing the lower budget market.


----------



## Randy

spudmunkey said:


> I wouldnt hold my breath. They seem pretty adamant that every guitat they build, even their import lines, are all going to be neck-through, and they dont be chasing the lower budget market.



Oh I know, I caught that. And they're not going to do very well with that, so I'm sure they'll relent in a year or two. A neck-thru high end version of this would also be awesome, I'm just still in the "I'm not paying $1800 for something from South Korea" contingent because unless it's my dream guitar that I'm keeping forever, I'm always mindful of resale and those kinds of things sink like a rock. I don't mean that as a knock, just the reason why I haven't bit on anything yet.

As far as having to be neck-thru etc to be "high end", my Ironbird Limited was one of the best playing, sounding and best fit and finish guitars I've owned at any price point. And that wasn't a bronze or platinum series guitar, I'd say it was maybe in the NJ series range but oddball specs? Bolt on, solid finish and a Rockfield pickup but OFR with that huge inlay, and the two tone paint job with the white pearl flake. I thought that was a nice balance of affordable but not a cheap guitar.

I think BCR could do something like that again without necessarily abandoning the "quality" push that they're after. To some degree they already implied THAT sort of spec was in the cards, as the non-abalone line in the second phase. So it's not a total departure from their plan.


----------



## Damon67

They've drawn a line in the sand. Maybe they change it in the future, but for now you absolutely WILL NOT see Floyd Specials or $8 Chinese pickups. The no bolt-on thing may be a bit extreme, but it's the line they drew.

For many years now, entities that have owned the brand went to the other extreme. Absolute garbage with strings. It's going to take some extreme measures to reverse the 'cheap' perceptions people have of the brand. Maybe it's fitting one of the new lines is called 'Extreme'.

B.C. Rich started as a custom shop building quality NECKTHRU guitars. They want to get back to their roots.


----------



## Damon67

Seems there's a theme, let's roll with it...


----------



## Rev2010

Damon67 said:


> Seems there's a theme, let's roll with it...



That's quite sexy, but I think it would look nicer with the neck back painted white as well. Also, for $1600-$1700 guitars it would be nice if they installed quick access battery compartments. 


Rev.


----------



## Opion

I actually do not dislike that at all


----------



## High Plains Drifter

Would look even better w/o that abalone along the board but that's pretty tasty otherwise.


----------



## pastanator

Hmmm


----------



## cardinal

I applaud their enthusiasm for throwing a bunch of stuff out there, but are the ones they're actually making now selling? I actually feel kinda bad that I haven't bought the 8-string Floyd thing, but I just have so many others at this point.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## spudmunkey

I really hope they list the specs as "24.666 frets".


----------



## trem licking

cardinal said:


> I applaud their enthusiasm for throwing a bunch of stuff out there, but are the ones they're actually making now selling? I actually feel kinda bad that I haven't bought the 8-string Floyd thing, but I just have so many others at this point.


dont worry i bought one and it seems as though hollowway is right behind me haha. they will have at least sold 2... they probably only made 5 har har


----------



## trem licking

i have zero interest in multiscale guitars and i think they usually look funny, but i think they even nailed that ^ good work that looks amazing


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Only thing that irks me is how the higher frets seem to be just... pasted onto a straight-fret guitar.


----------



## spudmunkey

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Only thing that irks me is how the higher frets seem to be just... pasted onto a straight-fret guitar.



What bugs me is how they are using the entirely logical pickup placement method of angling them to where they should be on the scale, which means different from each other...which to my eye always looks messy. Again, I get it...it's the most logical, and likely the most 'correct' way...but it just looks bonkers to me, when they are at different angles. 


edit: But wait...they actually aren't. It's not like the neck pickup matches the higher fret and the bridge pickup is nearly the bridge angle...it look slike the neck pickup is still straight, and the bridge pickup is just...slightly off. OK, I oficially don't get it.


----------



## A-Branger

spudmunkey said:


> What bugs me is how they are using the entirely logical pickup placement method of angling them to where they should be on the scale, which means different from each other...which to my eye always looks messy. Again, I get it...it's the most logical, and likely the most 'correct' way...but it just looks bonkers to me, when they are at different angles.
> 
> 
> edit: But wait...they actually aren't. It's not like the neck pickup matches the higher fret and the bridge pickup is nearly the bridge angle...it look slike the neck pickup is still straight, and the bridge pickup is just...slightly off. OK, I officially don't get it.



thats because they arent using multiscale pickups, they are using regular scale ones. So they can only angle the pickup so much before the polepieces go out of wack. They could have used 7 string fishmans (or active pups for that matter, or 7 string pups with bar magnets) so they could angled them properly without having to design a proper multiscale pup

good on them on not having a triangle of shame at the headstock, but now they have the square fretboard at the bottom which is equally bad or worse


----------



## narad

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Only thing that irks me is how the higher frets seem to be just... pasted onto a straight-fret guitar.



Yea, I actually like the abalone (looks awesome on the ironbird), but you can't do abalone on multifret, box in the entire board, and have frets popping through the bottom of the frame. Looks super messy.


----------



## bostjan

IDK, I like both of those, from an aesthetic standpoint. I'd like to see the spec's, though before I say more than that.


----------



## trem licking

^thats by far the most tolerable looking multiscale ive ever seen (shrug)


----------



## spudmunkey

trem licking said:


> ^thats by far the most tolerable looking multiscale ive ever seen (shrug)



I assume because it doesn't really look _totally_ multiscale, since the pckups are mostly straight, and the upper end of the fretboard is still straight, and the "crooked" bridge isn't installed yet so it doesn't have a chance to look 'wrong'?


----------



## sirbuh

Legacy Stealth arrived today so quick response: quality axe, basically what I wanted the first cs sig to be.


----------



## JimF

Saw this the other day and immediately thought of this thread:


----------



## ArtDecade




----------



## JimF

sirbuh said:


> Legacy Stealth arrived today so quick response: quality axe, basically what I wanted the first cs sig to be.



Have I missed a NGD post about this?...


----------



## trem licking

haven't made a NGD post, but i just got the shredzilla 8 string with floyd... the guitar is awesome! but i have one concern that may not be of concern at all but i'd like some opinions, especially from those who work on guitars (max, you work on guitars right?). where the floyd is routed, the wood is REALLY thin by the treble side trem post, where the post insert goes in. the 8 string floyd posts are mounted to a hinge anchor with 2 screws so i think that it will hold fine over time, but it looks as though its cracked ever so slightly in the wood where the insert was pressed in. any thoughts? worrying too much or return?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

trem licking said:


> haven't made a NGD post, but i just got the shredzilla 8 string with floyd... the guitar is awesome! but i have one concern that may not be of concern at all but i'd like some opinions, especially from those who work on guitars (max, you work on guitars right?). where the floyd is routed, the wood is REALLY thin by the treble side trem post, where the post insert goes in. the 8 string floyd posts are mounted to a hinge anchor with 2 screws so i think that it will hold fine over time, but it looks as though its cracked ever so slightly in the wood where the insert was pressed in. any thoughts? worrying too much or return?



Pics?


----------



## trem licking

It may be hard to see in the pics but they definitely routed out more wood than they should have. Very small hairline cracks in the wood where the insert is and a very slight bulge in the wood


----------



## bloodocean

trem licking said:


> It may be hard to see in the pics but they definitely routed out more wood than they should have. Very small hairline cracks in the wood where the insert is and a very slight bulge in the wood


I think I see what you’re saying. Hard to say if this will get worse.

One thing though, the insert looks like it is bearing on the glued neck / body interface which should be strong.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Seems fine. Maybe not ideal long term, maybe. But I've seen worse last years and years. 

OT: They need to slow them routers down. Burrrrrnnnnn.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> OT: They need to slow them routers down. Burrrrrnnnnn.



That, and/or make sure they are sharp.


----------



## trem licking

Welp, i returned it. Couldn't let myself keep it with that goin on for that price. Bummer


----------



## mlp187

trem licking said:


> Welp, i returned it. Couldn't let myself keep it with that goin on for that price. Bummer


Are you going to try another one?


----------



## trem licking

mlp187 said:


> Are you going to try another one?


Naw, i cant handle another letdown. Ill just say that in my personal experience, south korea still has to up their game in guitars smh


----------



## Adieu

trem licking said:


> View attachment 77500
> View attachment 77501
> 
> It may be hard to see in the pics but they definitely routed out more wood than they should have. Very small hairline cracks in the wood where the insert is and a very slight bulge in the wood



Srsly?

That's one of the cleanest routes (routs?) I've seen


----------



## trem licking

Adieu said:


> Srsly?
> 
> That's one of the cleanest routes (routs?) I've seen


Yes srsly. Theres like a sheet of paper holding the insert in. Clean or not, they took out too much wood


----------



## JimF

Just as I resign myself to either a modded older Ibanez or a Solar that isn't 100% what I want, the Evertune Shredzilla turns up, but with the promise of no garish binding and solid colours in the future.... I could be tempted.
My only issue is the body looks absolutely enormous. Like maybe I’m too used to the 7/8 Jackson Dinky body size, but this looks 9/8 lol.


----------



## trem licking

update to my previous post for anyone who cares, i wrote to bcrich on their website telling them what my problem was and Bill Xavier got ahold of me like 5 minutes after i sent it haha... i gotta say i'm impressed! he was a cool guy and was interested in what i had to say so i emailed him the pictures i took. if he can sort out that issue i may have another shredzilla 8 floyd in my future


----------



## mlp187

trem licking said:


> update to my previous post for anyone who cares, i wrote to bcrich on their website telling them what my problem was and Bill Xavier called me like 5 minutes after i sent it haha... i gotta say i'm impressed! he was a cool guy and was interested in what i had to say so i emailed him the pictures i took. if he can sort out that issue i may have another shredzilla 8 floyd in my future


This is so great. Great update, crossing my fingers for you!


----------



## JimF

These days it really isn't about issues, its about how you deal with these issues. Solar have this aspect nailed, and hopefully it looks as though BC Rich understand this too!


----------



## trem licking

another update, just talked to the CEO of BC Rich today about the guitar i returned... turns out my guitar just had a routing error at the factory. not sure how it happened, but he took apart his guitar and sent me pics and his was routed correctly. the dude is cool as hell and is taking care of me, so i will be buying another one of these soon. highly recommend, stellar service


----------



## Randy

trem licking said:


> another update, just talked to the CEO of BC Rich today about the guitar i returned... turns out my guitar just had a routing error at the factory. not sure how it happened, but he took apart his guitar and sent me pics and his was routed correctly. the dude is cool as hell and is taking care of me, so i will be buying another one of these soon. highly recommend, stellar service



I'd hold off on the recommendation until you've got the new one in your hands. They also went out of their way to take care of you, it's not like that's something they could do for every person that's got a QC complaint (ie: CEO talking to them and disassembling their personal guitar to show you pics).

I'll go back to what I said, idk, a bazillion pages ago. WMI makes some nice guitars. BC Rich designs some nice guitars. I don't think WMI's build consistency is in the $1800+ range. Strandberg pulled it off since the shape, specs and hardware is so proprietary, and even at that, I personally never bought one because I don't see the resale value there.

The fact they were very apologetic and treated you well after something was wrong with the guitar that shouldn't have been in the first place doesn't come across as an instant "must recommend". I have a hard time believing a router slip up in a mega factory like that was a one time and done kinda thing. Neither was forgetting to sand out that burn mark, considering how many steps of finish and QC that would've passed through between then and having it in your hands.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

JimF said:


> These days it really isn't about issues, its about how you deal with these issues. Solar have this aspect nailed, and hopefully it looks as though BC Rich understand this too!


What issues has Solar had?


----------



## trem licking

Randy said:


> I'd hold off on the recommendation until you've got the new one in your hands. They also went out of their way to take care of you, it's not like that's something they could do for every person that's got a QC complaint (ie: CEO talking to them and disassembling their personal guitar to show you pics).
> 
> I'll go back to what I said, idk, a bazillion pages ago. WMI makes some nice guitars. BC Rich designs some nice guitars. I don't think WMI's build consistency is in the $1800+ range. Strandberg pulled it off since the shape, specs and hardware is so proprietary, and even at that, I personally never bought one because I don't see the resale value there.
> 
> The fact they were very apologetic and treated you well after something was wrong with the guitar that shouldn't have been in the first place doesn't come across as an instant "must recommend". I have a hard time believing a router slip up in a mega factory like that was a one time and done kinda thing. Neither was forgetting to sand out that burn mark, considering how many steps of finish and QC that would've passed through between then and having it in your hands.



i WOULD recommend right now because you can easily return a defective guitar and not lose out money-wise anyways. the guitar was great besides this one issue. it's your responsibility to QC a guitar, no matter who makes it, when you receive it. companies that back their products and looks into issues in a timely manner get recommendations from me.

that being said, i do agree with you that WMI has some issues. they are only slightly better than stuff that comes out of indo/china in my experience. take apart your guitars and look them over people, there are some gremlins hidden deep sometimes.


----------



## Randy

Which store did you buy yours from?


----------



## trem licking

Randy said:


> Which store did you buy yours from?


guitar center


----------



## Randy

Off the rack? I'm just curious what the distribution is like right now. My Guitar Center is gutted of stock the lat few years, so I always go to the smaller guys and none of them are currently selling BCR, so I haven't seen one in the wild yet.


----------



## Legion

Jesus Christ this thread is still alive?!?


----------



## Rosal76

Randy said:


> Off the rack? I'm just curious what the distribution is like right now. My Guitar Center is gutted of stock the lat few years, so I always go to the smaller guys and none of them are currently selling BCR, so I haven't seen one in the wild yet.



A forum member from the B.C. Rich Unlimited Facebook page posted this picture, yesterday. He states it's from the Guitar Center in Atlanta. He didn't say what state but I'm going to assume, Atlanta, Georgia.

Red Mockingbird guitar on top shelf, to the right.


----------



## trem licking

Randy said:


> Off the rack? I'm just curious what the distribution is like right now. My Guitar Center is gutted of stock the lat few years, so I always go to the smaller guys and none of them are currently selling BCR, so I haven't seen one in the wild yet.


No i ordered it and had it shipped, i would have caught that issue had i seen it in store, because i check every guitar i get in that spot now haha


----------



## Randy

Rosal76 said:


> A forum member from the B.C. Rich Unlimited Facebook page posted this picture, yesterday. He states it's from the Guitar Center in Atlanta. He didn't say what state but I'm going to assume, Atlanta, Georgia.
> 
> Red Mockingbird guitar on top shelf, to the right.



I see "put all the guitars people actually want to play on the top shelf" is a common theme across all their stores.


----------



## Rosal76

Randy said:


> I see "put all the guitars people actually want to play on the top shelf" is a common theme across all their stores.



They have a yellow, Ibanez RG550 Genesis on the middle row which I can grab without assistance/a ladder. I'm good!!! I love B.C. Rich and the Mockingbird looks cool and all but I know that RG550 will play like a million dollars.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 78113



Where tf is the black IB...


----------



## Bdtunn

Holy crap it’s the hermon li 
Never would have guessed bc rich


----------



## sirbuh

Ironbird, in red? Well then.


----------



## couverdure

Bdtunn said:


> Holy crap it’s the hermon li
> Never would have guessed bc rich
> 
> View attachment 78136


Yes, that's the same guitar he posted on Instagram.




He's been getting different custom guitars from various companies ever since he left Ibanez a while back.


----------



## manu80

New take on gunslinger then...mmmm interesting


----------



## beerandbeards

Still waiting on Chuck Schuldiner Tribute reissue...


----------



## Edika

Now those Ironbirds look really appealing!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 78113


ooooh lawd that slime green ironbird is calling my name


----------



## Mathemagician

Green Ironbird. Or red ironbird. Green ironbird. Or red ironbird.


----------



## Trainwreck

Mathemagician said:


> Green Ironbird. Or red ironbird. Green ironbird. Or red ironbird.


Both. You deserve it.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Andromalia

Looks like they had enough leftover abalone for lefties models. Condolences.


----------



## GraemeH

Bet you £100 the guy in charge of picking the binding also picks the HDR filters.


----------



## electriceye

I hate when they use the spear headstock on Mockingbirds. Hate it. Put them in a bonfire. All of them.


----------



## spudmunkey

electriceye said:


> I hate when they use the spear headstock on Mockingbirds. Hate it. Put them in a bonfire. All of them.



Same, but I have it even worse when it's reversed, as shown. A non-reverse, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Jeffrey Bain

Am I the only one who hates diamond inlays? Immediate non-starter for me


----------



## bassplayer8

Damn never thought Herman Li would go with bc rich. assuming thats his new sig?


----------



## spudmunkey

bassplayer8 said:


> Damn never thought Herman Li would go with bc rich. assuming thats his new sig?



Not necessarily. He's has multiple companies build him guitars, even some of them quite heavily customized. From Kiesel, to PRS, and now BC Rich. it could just be an experiment/test.


----------



## JimF

Spaced Out Ace said:


> What issues has Solar had?



Literally just a couple of random QC slip-throughs in which Ola has said "here send it back we got you" essentially.


----------



## JimF

spudmunkey said:


> Not necessarily. He's has multiple companies build him guitars, even some of them quite heavily customized. From Kiesel, to PRS, and now BC Rich. it could just be an experiment/test.



I like the idea of him exploiting the potential companies vying for his attention to get himself loads of top end guitars, but why remake the same style?!


----------



## Mathemagician

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 78187
> View attachment 78188



Huh abalone on brown. Looks even worse than you’d think. 



JimF said:


> I like the idea of him exploiting the potential companies vying for his attention to get himself loads of top end guitars, but why remake the same style?!



He likes what he likes. For example Vai has had 4 billion Jems in like 35+ years.


----------



## spudmunkey

Anyone see that video of Yngwie where he's got dozens of off-white strats just leaned against a wall in a pile, banging and sliding all over each other?


----------



## Jeffrey Bain

spudmunkey said:


> Anyone see that video of Yngwie where he's got dozens of off-white strats just leaned against a wall in a pile, banging and sliding all over each other?


It is... glorious


----------



## spudmunkey

Jeffrey Bain said:


> It is... glorious



There's a video where he's talking about individual ones, and it's muuuuuch messier than that.


----------



## spudmunkey

This one:


----------



## mbardu

spudmunkey said:


> This one:




Lol this is just soooo Yngwie.
Random 1954 strat just lying around there in the pile.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Next on Extreme Hoarders......


----------



## Rev2010

electriceye said:


> I hate when they use the spear headstock on Mockingbirds. Hate it. Put them in a bonfire. All of them.



Shutup, I love it!  I'm just waiting for them to get off their lazy asses and finally make a 7-string 26.5" scale Mockingbird or Warlock.


Rev.


----------



## Jeffrey Bain

spudmunkey said:


> This one:



LOL DEAR GOD. That’s insanity


----------



## Mathemagician

Hey that assassin/gunslinger they showed with 22 frets, what’s the word on that? Is that an official model? I thought it was all shredzilla super strats.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Mathemagician said:


> Hey that assassin/gunslinger they showed with 22 frets, what’s the word on that? Is that an official model? I thought it was all shredzilla super strats.




No they are doing gunslingers but no bolt on just neck through


----------



## Andromalia

Jeffrey Bain said:


> Am I the only one who hates diamond inlays? Immediate non-starter for me


Diamond inlays are a classic BCR thing, I can understand not liking them but you can't really fault them for that.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Andromalia said:


> Diamond inlays are a classic BCR thing, I can understand not liking them but you can't really fault them for that.


 
I like em in certain contexts. Really depends on the rest of the guitar.


----------



## Mathemagician

Pretty sure I remember a story in an interview where Yngwie says he ordered a pizza but had zero idea where his wallet/cash was when the guy showed up, so he just gave him a random strat he had laying around.

That’s how different inflation was back then though. A single strat would buy way less pizza today.


----------



## mbardu

Mathemagician said:


> Pretty sure I remember a story in an interview where Yngwie says he ordered a pizza but had zero idea where his wallet/cash was when the guy showed up, so he just gave him a random strat he had laying around.
> 
> That’s how different inflation was back then though. A single strat would buy way less pizza today.



This is now a Yngwie thread 
That guy needs his own sitcom or something


----------



## spudmunkey

mbardu said:


> This is now a Yngwie thread



It's only fitting, since the kiesel thread was the BC Rich thread for a minute.



mbardu said:


> That guy needs his own sitcom or something



Or a sitcom_ about_ him. He could only be played by Tommy Wiseau.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> Or a sitcom_ about_ him. He could only be played by Tommy Wiseau.



Danny McBride was born to play Yngwie.


----------



## Seabeast2000

The Kenny Powers of shred needs to happen.


----------



## musicaldeath

> Or a sitcom_ about_ him. He could only be played by Tommy Wiseau.



Off topic but a friend of mine made me watch a "Best parts from The Room" clip on YouTube and it was summed up in the comments perfectly as "It's like he doesn't understand English, but he knows all the words." In reference to Tommy. Could be fitting for Yngwie...?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

it physically pained me to watch yngwie toss pre 70s strats around the way I toss my sub 300$ guitars.


----------



## Vostre Roy

BC Rich posted a picture of a single pickups, binding-less Ironbird in red and green in their story today.

I wouldn't mind the red one, at all


----------



## iLike myMetalBlack

Vostre Roy said:


> BC Rich posted a picture of a single pickups, binding-less Ironbird in red and green in their story today.
> 
> I wouldn't mind the red one, at all


but where's the reverse headstock?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Vostre Roy said:


> BC Rich posted a picture of a single pickups, binding-less Ironbird in red and green in their story today.
> 
> I wouldn't mind the red one, at all



the side dots seem off to me IMO.


----------



## pastanator

the twitch chat kind of obscures it but heres that herman li guitar


----------



## Señor Voorhees

pastanator said:


> the twitch chat kind of obscures it but heres that herman li guitar




I knew I would, but I super dig it. Purple bobbins on a purple flame? That's more than enough to tickle me in the best of ways. Wish I could afford one. Definitely an instant buy on aesthetics alone, let alone the fact that I loved Herman Li's sigs in the past. Wonderful guitars, and this one looks no different.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

He also has a custom-made ESP on the way by the sounds of it.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> He also has a custom-made ESP on the way by the sounds of it.




The man is milking everyone lmao.

Honestly who wouldn't tho


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> The man is milking everyone lmao.
> 
> Honestly who wouldn't tho


Worked for Steve Vai.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

aight a USA BCR


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

And another one.....


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Those are nice.


----------



## Deep Blue

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> And another one.....


I wonder what kind of purfling or binding that is on the Warlock. It looks quite different to the normal abalone, unless it's just some really aggressive Photoshop work.


----------



## JimF

Loving that Ironbird


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Deep Blue said:


> I wonder what kind of purfling or binding that is on the Warlock. It looks quite different to the normal abalone, unless it's just some really aggressive Photoshop work.



I think it is black tortoise or black mop/ black pearl.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

JimF said:


> Loving that Ironbird




They need to do that for the imports. Along with a stealth and I'm sold. If they do both of those I am selling one of my schecters just to be able to buy both. These would be fuckin hot as imports. I don't have $4100 bucks so don't see myself getting one soon


----------



## spudmunkey

Interestly, the inlays on the red and green iron birds arent little dots, but are little squares.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> Interestly, the inlays on the red and green iron birds arent little dots, but are little squares.
> 
> View attachment 78723
> View attachment 78724




Interesting. Hasn't ibanez done that?


----------



## narad

spudmunkey said:


> Interestly, the inlays on the red and green iron birds arent little dots, but are little squares.
> 
> View attachment 78723
> View attachment 78724



I like that. Pixel inlays.


----------



## narad

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> aight a USA BCR



Does this thing have a price?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> Pixel inlays.



Nah. _Baby Blocks._


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

narad said:


> Does this thing have a price?



$4550


----------



## narad

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> $4550



Well fuck that.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Nah. _Baby Blocks._



Are sure it's not the MIDI roll for the intro to "Just What I Needed"?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

narad said:


> Well fuck that.
> 
> 
> 
> Are sure it's not the MIDI roll for the intro to "Just What I Needed"?




What did you expect though honestly? I was expecting a much higher price.

Is it high? Sure as fuck it is, but honestly at least I can have ANYTHING built by bcr now and not have to go through a bunch of bs just to have Jackson make me something. I love Jackson, but if I asked them to do a custom neck profile they'd tell me to fuck off


----------



## narad

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> What did you expect though honestly? I was expecting a much higher price.



For just a barebones black warlock? I'd expect that sort of price for something quilty and ornate, but whatever, I mean, the prices are all arbitrary anyway. Is that at a dealer or something?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

narad said:


> For just a barebones black warlock? I'd expect that sort of price for something quilty and ornate, but whatever, I mean, the prices are all arbitrary anyway. Is that at a dealer or something?



Yes, Chondro guitars


----------



## narad

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yes, Chondro guitars



At least those guys seem cool, may be able to shave a bit off.


----------



## Merrekof

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I think it is black tortoise or black mop/ black pearl.


This actually looks really cool!


----------



## spudmunkey

I suspect that would be called "black pearloid".


----------



## Viginez

not a fan of these block inlays (on a ironbird)


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Merrekof said:


> This actually looks really cool!



I can confirm it looks pretty nice. My Schecter E-7 has "grey pearloid" purfling. Pictures don't do it a ton of justice, but I'm usually turned off by purfling and I find it very non-offensive. It looks particularly nice on the headstock.

ymmv, but even in these pictures I like it, and it looks much better irl:

https://www.schecterguitars.com/vault/hellraiser-e-7-passive-detail


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

narad said:


> At least those guys seem cool, may be able to shave a bit off.



15% off discount when you join his facebook group.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Señor Voorhees said:


> I can confirm it looks pretty nice. My Schecter E-7 has "grey pearloid" purfling. Pictures don't do it a ton of justice, but I'm usually turned off by purfling and I find it very non-offensive. It looks particularly nice on the headstock.
> 
> ymmv, but even in these pictures I like it, and it looks much better irl:
> 
> https://www.schecterguitars.com/vault/hellraiser-e-7-passive-detail




Accompanied with the satin black it is gorgeous.


----------



## sirbuh

sirbuh said:


> Legacy Stealth arrived today so quick response: quality axe, basically what I wanted the first cs sig to be.



Grabbed my American Pro strat, was surprised how similar the build quality/feel is between the two.


----------



## lewis

BC Rich have been a shit show for years.
Coming back with attractive guitars for the first time in years - but charging $4500 for them, is NOT going to help business.

Surely you prove you are "back" first before you jump straight to crazy prices?


----------



## zappatton2

I thought the $4500 price tag was for custom shop guitars? I know I paid a little more than that when I ordered a custom BCR back in '06. I don't think that aspect is any more or less expensive than it's ever been, at least since the turn of the century.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

sirbuh said:


> Grabbed my American Pro strat, was surprised how similar the build quality/feel is between the two.



Between my two zillas, they are definitely high quality guitars man.



lewis said:


> BC Rich have been a shit show for years.
> Coming back with attractive guitars for the first time in years - but charging $4500 for them, is NOT going to help business.
> 
> Surely you prove you are "back" first before you jump straight to crazy prices?



For a USA guitar it is around the ballpark of what Custom shops are charging nowadays. Do I like the price? No I don't, but that is how much shit costs now. ESP, Jackson, Charvel, etc. are all up there in price bro


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> BC Rich have been a shit show for years.
> Coming back with attractive guitars for the first time in years - but charging $4500 for them, is NOT going to help business.
> 
> Surely you prove you are "back" first before you jump straight to crazy prices?


their mik guitars are sub 2k, which is in line with comparable schecters and esp EIIs.


----------



## Ebony

zappatton2 said:


> I don't think that aspect is more or less expensive as it's ever been, at least since the turn of the century.



Indeed, I still kick myself for not buying that delicious flame top purplish red warlock musiczoo had on ebay, I think the price was around 4699 (and I _know_ I could have bought it for way less than that). Back then the dollar was still in the shitter too, ugh...


----------



## lewis

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Between my two zillas, they are definitely high quality guitars man.
> 
> 
> 
> For a USA guitar it is around the ballpark of what Custom shops are charging nowadays. Do I like the price? No I don't, but that is how much shit costs now. ESP, Jackson, Charvel, etc. are all up there in price bro



Yes but ESP, Jackson and charvel etc havent been dead for years. Infact its been the opposite. Their prices are justified by years of excellent quality and good grace.

BC rich dont have that going for them atm, and until they could prove they have turned it around they simply shouldnt have jumped to that amount. Who would really trust throwing that much at a BC Rich right now?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> Yes but ESP, Jackson and charvel etc havent been dead for years. Infact its been the opposite. Their prices are justified by years of excellent quality and good grace.
> 
> BC rich dont have that going for them atm, and until they could prove they have turned it around they simply shouldnt have jumped to that amount. Who would really trust throwing that much at a BC Rich right now?



The BCR Custom Shop has been running quite steadily over the years. 

It's operated somewhat separately from the production/import stuff since the early 00's. 

You might also be conflating it with BRJ who, after sinking the ship a couple times, had nothing to do with actual BCR. 

I also wouldn't use Jackson or Charvel as examples here. It wasn't too long ago that Jackson was bankrupt and Charvel was importing Schecter clones trying to stay relevant.


----------



## lewis

MaxOfMetal said:


> The BCR Custom Shop has been running quite steadily over the years.
> 
> It's operated somewhat separately from the production/import stuff since the early 00's.
> 
> You might also be conflating it with BRJ who, after sinking the ship a couple times, had nothing to do with actual BCR.
> 
> I also wouldn't use Jackson or Charvel as examples here. It wasn't too long ago that Jackson was bankrupt and Charvel was importing Schecter clones trying to stay relevant.



Ah was un aware of some of that. Was going by mostly reviews online.

Nicely done.
My time in this thread is up haha


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Edika

Daaaamn these look fine! That orange Ironbird and that green Warlock yum yum!

I wonder though when and if we'll see them in stores/online retailers anytime soon with the Corona virus situation.


----------



## Adieu

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 78944
> View attachment 78945
> View attachment 78946
> View attachment 78947



Carbon fiber binding?

Well damn... now all they need to figure out is how to add a spacer lift, monster energy, or a BFGoodrich logo

And LEDs. Us Kyles love us some LEDs.


----------



## PhantomLord

Considering the specs, these (ironbirds) should go under 1k I guess?


----------



## JimF

I wish that buying an Ironbird for home use wasn't the equivalent of having a medieval broadsword in your bedroom


----------



## spudmunkey

Adieu said:


> Well damn... now all they need to figure out is how to add a spacer lift, monster energy, or a BFGoodrich logo
> 
> And LEDs. Us Kyles love us some LEDs.



*coughcough*


----------



## Señor Voorhees

I hate that inlay, but I like the lights... Too much Kyle in my blood, I guess.


----------



## gunshow86de

All I want is a white or red Ironbird to exclusively play Bolt Thrower riffs, pls and thank you.



JimF said:


> I wish that buying an Ironbird for home use wasn't the equivalent of having a medieval broadsword in your bedroom



I'm not seeing the downside here.


----------



## spudmunkey

Señor Voorhees said:


> I hate that inlay, but I like the lights... Too much Kyle in my blood, I guess.



They also have:


----------



## Señor Voorhees

spudmunkey said:


> They also have:
> View attachment 78988



I'm a sucker for silly little things like that. I also really like V-Man's headless bass with the glowing red inlays/side dots. I honestly wish it were a more common feature, but I do tend to kind of like gaudy things like big dumb inlays (sometimes) and flashy junk that lends nothing to the playability. lol


----------



## ExplorerMike

I’ll admit I love that carbon fiber binding on the black guitars. Looks pretty cool. And I’m not much of an Ironbird guy but those last few posted are really awesome. Grabbed my attention immediately, in a good way this time too! May be making a convert out of me yet, but I’m digging pretty much everything they are putting out these days.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Adieu

spudmunkey said:


> *coughcough*
> View attachment 78970
> View attachment 78971



Throw in an Affliction sweatshirt and they can get a looooot of broke azz white guys' stimulus and unemployment checks


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Gunslinger baybeeeeee







"Hey BC Rich Fam ! Sooooo this is a Gunslinger 2.0 prototype for the Prophecy Line (Don't worry - We'll do a run of the original 22 fret legacy version too) BUT this one will be a 24 Fret Neck Through, Sharp, No frills Modern double cutaway... Keep in mind we are still working on this, volume knob will probably move a bit lower etc... but beyond that: should we tilt the pickup as a nod to the original Gunslinger or keep it straight? Should we scalop the 21-24th fret ? What's your vision for the Gunslinger 2 ?"


----------



## High Plains Drifter

Volume lower and back, side inlays only, 24 fret neck thru, scalloped 21-24... Prefer tilted pup but wouldn't matter either way. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.


----------



## Adieu

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Gunslinger baybeeeeee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Hey BC Rich Fam ! Sooooo this is a Gunslinger 2.0 prototype for the Prophecy Line (Don't worry - We'll do a run of the original 22 fret legacy version too) BUT this one will be a 24 Fret Neck Through, Sharp, No frills Modern double cutaway... Keep in mind we are still working on this, volume knob will probably move a bit lower etc... but beyond that: should we tilt the pickup as a nod to the original Gunslinger or keep it straight? Should we scalop the 21-24th fret ? What's your vision for the Gunslinger 2 ?"



Brodozer and Kyle jokes aside, daaaamn... these guys are doing EXACTLY what they should be as a guitar brand.


----------



## mlp187

Holy shit this is going to be a rough year for down-selection and acquisition. Too much good stuff!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I hope the 7 string ironbirds come in lambo colors as well


----------



## Jeffrey Bain

I would like to see a gunslinger hardtail. Need more value conscious single pickup guitars out there


----------



## Carl Kolchak

KnightBrolaire said:


> I hope the 7 string ironbirds come in lambo colors as well


But aren't they going to be like 25.5"? If so, phooey! Make a MIK at least 7 string Mockingbird or Bich w/ a 27" and I will buy one on the spot.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Carl Kolchak said:


> But aren't they going to be like 25.5"? If so, phooey! Make a MIK at least 7 string Mockingbird or Bich w/ a 27" and I will buy one on the spot.


I would tolerate a shorter scale just to have a 7 string ironbird in a garish color.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

So we just not gon mention this Ironbird? The ML fan in me is curious.


----------



## NotDonVito

I've been jamming suffocation lately which has given me major warlock gas.

aaaaanndd the used market for bc rich sucks! even the cheapo chinese warlocks are going for twice their worth with chips and dents all over the horns

never thought i would regret not buying a $300 bcr before they went under, i just want the shape to use for modding and fuckin around with

maybe i should learn how to carve wood during quarantine


----------



## MaxOfMetal

NotDonVito said:


> I've been jamming suffocation lately which has given me major warlock gas.
> 
> aaaaanndd the used market for bc rich sucks! even the cheapo chinese warlocks are going for twice their worth with chips and dents all over the horns
> 
> never thought i would regret not buying a $300 bcr before they went under, i just want the shape to use for modding and fuckin around with
> 
> maybe i should learn how to carve wood during quarantine



Keep an eye on MusicGoRound. They get solid NJ stuff for <$300. If you're desperate for a project, Bronze stuff starts at like $50.


----------



## possumkiller

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Gunslinger baybeeeeee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Hey BC Rich Fam ! Sooooo this is a Gunslinger 2.0 prototype for the Prophecy Line (Don't worry - We'll do a run of the original 22 fret legacy version too) BUT this one will be a 24 Fret Neck Through, Sharp, No frills Modern double cutaway... Keep in mind we are still working on this, volume knob will probably move a bit lower etc... but beyond that: should we tilt the pickup as a nod to the original Gunslinger or keep it straight? Should we scalop the 21-24th fret ? What's your vision for the Gunslinger 2 ?"


Looks like they will be scalloping a couple of frets that aren't there. Unless they messed up the inlays, that _is_ 22 frets already.


----------



## lewis

This is the best looking Warlock they have ever released.

Inline headstock - Tick
No horrible MOP Binding - Tick
Direct Mount pickups - Tick
EMGs from stock - Tick
Single Volume - Tick
Blank Ebony Board - Tick

I mean Jesus H Christ.
Presumably this is one of the priced ridiculous models?
If this is sub 1K even I would be interested and I really shouldn't be


----------



## spudmunkey

Even if it's their affordable line, I wouldn't expect sub-$1k.


----------



## lewis

spudmunkey said:


> Even if it's their affordable line, I wouldn't expect sub-$1k.



Now I remember why I don't buy BC Rich guitars haha
everyone else can manage it - why not them?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

lewis said:


> This is the best looking Warlock they have ever released.
> 
> Inline headstock - Tick
> No horrible MOP Binding - Tick
> Direct Mount pickups - Tick
> EMGs from stock - Tick
> Single Volume - Tick
> Blank Ebony Board - Tick
> 
> I mean Jesus H Christ.
> Presumably this is one of the priced ridiculous models?
> If this is sub 1K even I would be interested and I really shouldn't be




It is pretty slick! The carbon fiber binding on the black is sweet, but on the green not so much. Slap a Floyd on it and have it be 25.5" and then its good for me. Let there be an IB in the exact same fuckin specs and I am sold.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> Even if it's their affordable line, I wouldn't expect sub-$1k.




They have been messing around with producing stuff in Indo. From what I have heard those gunslingers are not MIK. They are some Indonesian prototypes that will be tested for quality. New BCR wants these things to stand out amongst other guitar companies producing in Indonesia. Sure are they more expensive than others? Yes, most definitely, but they are putting better electronics in their stuff along with more attention to detail. Plus they are doing *genuine *neck throughs. Not a scarf joint at the headstock. From the headstock to the end is a full neck through.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> Now I remember why I don't buy BC Rich guitars haha
> everyone else can manage it - why not them?



They don't seem to be catering to the "I don't buy anything over $400, and then spend $600 replacing everything." crowd yet. 



JustinRhoads1980 said:


> They have been messing around with producing stuff in Indo. From what I have heard those gunslingers are not MIK. They are some Indonesian prototypes that will be tested for quality. New BCR wants these things to stand out amongst other guitar companies producing in Indonesia. Sure are they more expensive than others? Yes, most definitely, but they are putting better electronics in their stuff along with more attention to detail. Plus they are doing *genuine *neck throughs. Not a scarf joint at the headstock. From the headstock to the end is a full neck through.



Eh, it's all marketing. Be sure to let Alembic know they're not making "genuine" neck through instruments. 

If you knew how scarf joints are made, you'd realize how silly this statement is.


----------



## lewis

MaxOfMetal said:


> They don't seem to be catering to the "I don't buy anything over $400, and then spend $*600* replacing everything." crowd yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Eh, it's all marketing. Be sure to let Alembic know they're not making "genuine" neck through instruments.
> 
> If you knew how scarf joints are made, you'd realize how silly this statement is.



1) that's hilariously true
2) at least you can do it in drips and drabs


----------



## xzacx

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> They have been messing around with producing stuff in Indo. From what I have heard those gunslingers are not MIK. They are some Indonesian prototypes that will be tested for quality. New BCR wants these things to stand out amongst other guitar companies producing in Indonesia. Sure are they more expensive than others? Yes, most definitely, but they are putting better electronics in their stuff along with more attention to detail. Plus they are doing *genuine *neck throughs. Not a scarf joint at the headstock. From the headstock to the end is a full neck through.



Scarf joints are in no way a negative thing. Pretty much all USA Jacksons have them. I much prefer it, and it has nothing to do with being a “genuine” neck thru or not. Aside from being stronger, there’s less waste too.


----------



## BusinessMan

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 78944
> View attachment 78945
> View attachment 78946
> View attachment 78947



Warlocks look nice but I want the widow headstock. I’d like one either way


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 79207
> View attachment 79208
> View attachment 79209
> View attachment 79210




I don't understand how no one has mentioned the acoustic in those photos...


----------



## Velokki

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I don't understand how no one has mentioned the acoustic in those photos...



Well, it looks like your run-of-the-mill cheapie acoustic for 299$, I don't really see why it'd need to be mentioned.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Velokki said:


> Well, it looks like your run-of-the-mill cheapie acoustic for 299$, I don't really see why it'd need to be mentioned.



It's also not the first BCR acoustic, at any price level.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's also not the first BCR acoustic, at any price level.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 79211




I want one now!


----------



## Adieu

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 79207
> View attachment 79208
> View attachment 79209
> View attachment 79210



Are all the guys at BCR aware that the numbers 24.75 and 25.5, when used in relation to a neck, typically describe scale length not fret count???

Or is this their bigger and better answer to the legendary Jackson 23-fretter?


----------



## pastanator

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 79211




not a very good picture but kyle gass also played a bc rich acoustic in alot of the tenacious d hbo series


----------



## DiezelMonster

At the Guitar store I work at in Ontario Canada we got in two of the extreme models, a warlock and a mockingbird.

I'm a huge B.C. Rich fan and have been since the 80's also have played them since then. I've currently got 3 vintage B.C. Rich guitars and a more modern USA custom.

These imports built in the Schecter factory and they feel and play quite well, especially after I set them both up. I'm not really into the Fishman fluence pickups but the people these guitars are aimed at will love them!

Cheers.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I knew something was weird about that Gunslinger. it's the Shredzilla shape.


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

I'm happy to see B.C. Rich doing a comeback with these guitars, but I also hope they will release a US line of guitars. I know about the custom shop (I got a CS Bich) but maybe they should make some standard models which might justify lower prices than what they charge for custom guitars.


----------



## A-Branger

whats the point on having soapbar active pickups on a multiscale if you are going to leave them straight? 

the whole advantage of soapbar pickups is that theres no pole pieces to align with strings so you can slant the pickup properly for the multiscale angle without having to design a slanted humbucker 

*facepalm*


----------



## MaxOfMetal

A-Branger said:


> whats the point on having soapbar active pickups on a multiscale if you are going to leave them straight?
> 
> the whole advantage of soapbar pickups is that theres no pole pieces to align with strings so you can slant the pickup properly for the multiscale angle without having to design a slanted humbucker
> 
> *facepalm*



That's not how pickups work. Magnetic fields don't depend on line of sight. 

As for slant vs. straight, the popularity of Strandbergs has pretty much solved that argument.


----------



## A-Branger

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's not how pickups work. Magnetic fields don't depend on line of sight.
> 
> As for slant vs. straight, the popularity of Strandbergs has pretty much solved that argument.


I know thats not how it works, but go and slant a normal humbucker to the degree of that bridge and see how many people are gonna jump against it.

yes I know the gunslider humbucker is slanted, thats their tradition. Which is slightly slanted, strings dont "need" to be at perfect line of sight with the pole piece. But working at a degree required of a multiscale like that you cant just use a regular pickup anymore (if you want to achieve the right angle), reason why soapbar pickups work best.

as for being able to get away with it because Stranberg does it too is a poor excuse. Not only that but a big reason for them to do so is because the design of their floating bridge doesnt allow for a slant pickup.

still, they have no excuse on why put the pickups like that when they are using Fishmans. I get it if we were talking about a regular humbucker so it could allow for aftermarket pickup swaps, but this is a soapbar


----------



## MaxOfMetal

A-Branger said:


> I know thats not how it works, but go and slant a normal humbucker to the degree of that bridge and see how many people are gonna jump against it.
> 
> yes I know the gunslider humbucker is slanted, thats their tradition. Which is slightly slanted, strings dont "need" to be at perfect line of sight with the pole piece. But working at a degree required of a multiscale like that you cant just use a regular pickup anymore (if you want to achieve the right angle), reason why soapbar pickups work best.
> 
> as for being able to get away with it because Stranberg does it too is a poor excuse. Not only that but a big reason for them to do so is because the design of their floating bridge doesnt allow for a slant pickup.
> 
> still, they have no excuse on why put the pickups like that when they are using Fishmans. I get it if we were talking about a regular humbucker so it could allow for aftermarket pickup swaps, but this is a soapbar



There's no "right" or "wrong" about this. It's just different.

Most aren't really going to care as long as they can afford it and it looks cool. 

They also don't need an "excuse" or to "get away with" anything.


----------



## Merrekof

I just can't stand regular humbuckers or soapbars in a slanted position, I can't help it. Who looked at that and: "cool, let's make this a production model"
It is even worse when they have 2 pickups, slanted in a different angle.

Multiscale guitars and basses who have slanted design humbuckers are okay though. That works with the overall design.


----------



## sirbuh

So any ETA on the Ironbirds?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Merrekof said:


> I just can't stand regular humbuckers or soapbars in a slanted position, I can't help it. Who looked at that and: "cool, let's make this a production model"
> It is even worse when they have 2 pickups, slanted in a different angle.
> 
> Multiscale guitars and basses who have slanted design humbuckers are okay though. That works with the overall design.



Blame EVH. Dude did it for practical reasons. 

But everyone in the '80s just fuckin' ran with it.


----------



## spudmunkey

sirbuh said:


> So any ETA on the Ironbirds?



Any particular one?
https://www.redblanketguitars.com/p...tic-with-Floyd-Rose-2-finish-options-502.html
https://www.redblanketguitars.com/p...eme-with-Floyd-Rose-2-finish-options-503.html


----------



## bloodocean

Maybe it’s already been posted but what kind of Floyds are these Korean made BCRs spec’ed with? -1000? Original?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

bloodocean said:


> Maybe it’s already been posted but what kind of Floyds are these Korean made BCRs spec’ed with? -1000? Original?



1000


----------



## sirbuh

spudmunkey said:


> Any particular one?
> https://www.redblanketguitars.com/p...tic-with-Floyd-Rose-2-finish-options-502.html
> https://www.redblanketguitars.com/p...eme-with-Floyd-Rose-2-finish-options-503.html




Specs are right. Color +flair not so much. Lets see a proper red bird hit the market.


----------



## spudmunkey

sirbuh said:


> Specs are right. Color +flair not so much. Lets see a proper red bird hit the market.



https://www.walmart.com/ip/BC-Rich-...N2bRXdhV_M0MhnqbV1h1oH9CPVRlElBsaAotQEALw_wcB


----------



## SlamLiguez

Fuck I can't wait until I can get my hands on one of those ironbird sevens.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Honestly if by the end of the year I haven't seen much coming out from BCR and not a lot of new activity (there has been discussion that there is a lot planned for the year including a whole new line of guitars) and if they don't come out by december/january then I might just have to go find another brand to give me a pointy.

Plus I have 2 of the new BCR Shredzillas so I want a Stealth/ironbird that is 25.5", 24 frets, and a Floyd. Standard features that I hope they have an answer to with a coming up product


----------



## Mathemagician

Hoping to see more 22 get 6 strings so the gunslinger is exciting.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's not how pickups work. Magnetic fields don't depend on line of sight.
> 
> As for slant vs. straight, the popularity of Strandbergs has pretty much solved that argument.


 Fuckin' magnets...HOW DO THEY WORK!?


----------



## DiezelMonster

spudmunkey said:


> https://www.walmart.com/ip/BC-Rich-...N2bRXdhV_M0MhnqbV1h1oH9CPVRlElBsaAotQEALw_wcB




At least Walmart got the body shape and headstock correct, the current monkey's at BC Rich cant.


----------



## spudmunkey

Merrekof said:


> I just can't stand regular humbuckers or soapbars in a slanted position, I can't help it. Who looked at that and: "cool, let's make this a production model"
> It is even worse when they have 2 pickups, slanted in a different angle.



An interesting Framus:


----------



## zappatton2

Man, I've been playing around on the Halo "design your own guitar" site, and I'm imagining how awesome it would be if BCR had something similar with all their shapes. I think I'd spend all day fiddling on it, I've already wasted 2 hours on the Halo site and I'm not even that keen on their guitars.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

zappatton2 said:


> Man, I've been playing around on the Halo "design your own guitar" site, and I'm imagining how awesome it would be if BCR had something similar with all their shapes. I think I'd spend all day fiddling on it, I've already wasted 2 hours on the Halo site and I'm not even that keen on their guitars.



I have heard not so many good things on them so I would never personally buy from them. However their generator is awesome. I also like Balaguers.

I just hope BCR will release some stuff like this. I am in a big need of a pointy. If they do not come out with anything end of this year/ end of winter namm 2021 then I just might pull the trigger on that taurus down below or wait for a used USA BCR to come up at a reasonable price.

I just want an ironbird or a stealth at this point


----------



## bloodocean

Paid review of an extreme mockingbird


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

bloodocean said:


> Paid review of an extreme mockingbird




I wonder if he checked on the ebony board to make sure that there is no issues with inlays or cuts in the board. It seems like that issue is happening a little bit on some of these guitar and based on my personal experience as well


----------



## exo

So, um....BCR just announced the return of one Neal Moser to the ranks of its master luthiers for USA custom stuff on their various social media accounts.....


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

exo said:


> So, um....BCR just announced the return of one Neal Moser to the ranks of its master luthiers for USA custom stuff on their various social media accounts.....



Yup, he's the master luthier for BCR's custom shop now.

Thank fucking god it's not BRJ like some people were speculating when all this was announced.


----------



## Merrekof

spudmunkey said:


> An interesting Framus:
> View attachment 79473


This is hurting me..


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## lewis

Merrekof said:


> This is hurting me..


its like a Picasso painting....but shit


----------



## cardinal

Wow that's pretty damn cool that Moser is back where he should have been welcome all this time.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Glad moser is back. From what I have heard his fret work and electronics work is amazing.


----------



## xzacx

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Glad moser is back. From what I have heard his fret work and electronics work is amazing.


I gotta say, when I think Neal Moser, fretwork and electronics aren’t the first things that come to mind no matter how good they are hahah.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

xzacx said:


> I gotta say, when I think Neal Moser, fretwork and electronics aren’t the first things that come to mind no matter how good they are hahah.



I had a friend tell me that for fretwork he always sends it to Neal the frets feel like glass and are perfect


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

xzacx said:


> I gotta say, when I think Neal Moser, fretwork and electronics aren’t the first things that come to mind no matter how good they are hahah.



Wasn't Neal the one that designed the wacky, extensive electronics in old BC Riches? All the switching options and the preamps IIRC.


----------



## iLike myMetalBlack

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Wasn't Neal the one that designed the wacky, extensive electronics in old BC Riches? All the switching options and the preamps IIRC.



Seven knobs? Just use a Bass.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Wasn't Neal the one that designed the wacky, extensive electronics in old BC Riches? All the switching options and the preamps IIRC.



Yes


----------



## Alberto7

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Wasn't Neal the one that designed the wacky, extensive electronics in old BC Riches? All the switching options and the preamps IIRC.



I don't know about that, but his guitars are, indeed, pretty infamous for having somewhere around 758 knobs, buttons, switches, pegs and overall twisty/pushy/flicky/clicky things each.


----------



## Merrekof

Cool, but not for me. I'm more of a "set and forget" person. Honestly, just a volume knob would suffice for me.


----------



## Seabeast2000

Merrekof said:


> Cool, but not for me. I'm more of a "set and forget" person. Honestly, just a volume knob would suffice for me.


That is a lot of tone tackle,.


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Wasn't Neal the one that designed the wacky, extensive electronics in old BC Riches? All the switching options and the preamps IIRC.



Yes, that is correct. I've got a Bich with the Moser electronics and I have to admit that I only use the bridge humbucker with bridge volume on max and everything else on 0 or turned off.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## exo

Came here to post the news about Dan Lawrence, got beaten to the punch. REALLY looks like the new BCR ownership is actually SERIOUS about this all.


I’m just praying that the COVID situation doesn’t make the “$15-1800” range a death sentence, at this point.....


----------



## exo

And DAMN, does my iPhone hate me. NO IDEA how those pics got attached, but I’m sure I’m gonna live on in SSO infamy because of it


----------



## spudmunkey

Just edit tour post, and remove the attachments. You may have to click a "more options" button to see them.


----------



## exo

spudmunkey said:


> Just edit tour post, and remove the attachments. You may have to click a "more options" button to see them.



Ah! That did the trick! Thank you!

of course, now everyone else is gonna be wondering what my second post there is all about......but sometimes a little mystery is a good thing


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Gunslinger Vintage and Modern. One is a reissue of the class from the 80s. The other has some more modern appointments. Simple enough, eh?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

exo said:


> And DAMN, does my iPhone hate me. NO IDEA how those pics got attached, but I’m sure I’m gonna live on in SSO infamy because of it


You posted nudes of your girlfriend/boyfriend/etc didn't you?


----------



## spudmunkey

Spaced Out Ace said:


> You posted nudes of your girlfriend/boyfriend/etc didn't you?


 Weirder. Starry-eyed Jesus-lookin' emoji.


----------



## mlp187

Well shit this is great news! Really hoping they do vintage reissue and modern 24 fret version. I'm really only interested in a modern version but I'm hopeful for others.


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

A Gunslinger with a strat headstock? Don't know if I like that.


----------



## PhantomLord




----------



## cardinal

Damn. Maybe I can justify a 6-string as a drop D guitar.


----------



## Vostre Roy

cardinal said:


> Damn. Maybe I can justify a 6-string as a drop D guitar.



I could find an hundred reason to justify getting this. Ain't the color I'd prefer but thats the best looking IB they've posted so far.


----------



## mlp187

Holy shit! Way to go BC Rich!


----------



## Blytheryn

YES FUCKING YES


----------



## MaxOfMetal

That is fucking hot!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

if the 7 string ironbird variant comes in lambo colors I may cream my pants


----------



## trem licking

yeah... these are rad


----------



## PhantomLord

yeah I'm now seriously considering an orange or green bird, I hope they are gonna be reasonably priced


----------



## sirbuh

I really hope the specs are the same as the extreme model


----------



## efiltsohg

I already have a neon green guitar with a maple fretboard... but I want that one too


----------



## zenonshandro

So sick. What are the chances that these birds might come with 7, 8 strings and neck pickups?


----------



## spudmunkey

zenonshandro said:


> So sick. What are the chances that these birds might come with 7, 8 strings and neck pickups?



Supposedly yes to all of those.


----------



## Randy

Made the thread title vanilla, since the brand seems to have legitimized itself at this point.


----------



## narad

Randy said:


> Made the thread title vanilla, since the brand seems to have legitimized itself at this point.



"BC Rich Fuck Yea!!" the way things have been going.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

It seems like the pic with the slinger/shredzilla jr/ slinger 2.0 and the IB and warlock are gonna be additions to the extreme/prophecy series. 

I think it will be more prophecy series since the extreme series tend to sport the fishmans rather than the dimarzios. 

Honestly if they come out with an ironbird like that in a candy apple red with a maple fretboard I might consider getting this rather than a charvel.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980




----------



## MASS DEFECT

PhantomLord said:


> View attachment 80245
> View attachment 80246
> yeah I'm now seriously considering an orange or green bird, I hope they are gonna be reasonably priced


Love that green Gunslinger. But why is there no forearm bevel/cut?


----------



## Viginez

that isn't a gunslinger
seems like a 'zilla model


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Have any new models been announced with anything longer than a 26.5" scale yet?


----------



## spudmunkey

Viginez said:


> that isn't a gunslinger
> seems like a 'zilla model



There will be a legacy gunslinger, bolt-on and posted previously, and a modern on, seemingly more based on the shredzilla. They are still developing them, according to the head guy in the last week or two, on a The Tone King video interview on YouTube.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Made the thread title vanilla, since the brand seems to have legitimized itself at this point.



Shoulda just changed it to the ”BC Rich Instagram Story Thread” since that's where all the cool guitars are.


----------



## MASS DEFECT

Viginez said:


> that isn't a gunslinger
> seems like a 'zilla model


Looks the same to me...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Viginez said:


> that isn't a gunslinger
> seems like a 'zilla model





MASS DEFECT said:


> View attachment 80282
> 
> Looks the same to me...



The new Gunslinger (2.0 I think it's called?) is based on the Shredzilla shape.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> Shoulda just changed it to the ”BC Rich Instagram Story Thread” since that's where all the cool guitars are.


Until recently, it seems they didn't want to post pics on their actual timeline unless they could do 3 at a time, so as not to screw up their collage/tiled design.

Neal Moser: C-C-C-Combo Breaker!!


----------



## jephjacques

Those gunslingers look fuckin dope


----------



## Vostre Roy

Wait, is Joe Perry a member of FFDP now? (sarcasm)


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Carl Kolchak said:


> Have any new models been announced with anything longer than a 26.5" scale yet?



8 strings.


----------



## Randy

Vostre Roy said:


> Wait, is Joe Perry a member of FFDP now? (sarcasm)



Thin blue line neck tattoo mandatory.


----------



## Walter W.

Those Shredzillas look pretty damn good


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Randy said:


> Thin blue line neck tattoo mandatory.


Imagine paying $70 for literally a thin blue line.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Imagine paying $70 for literally a thin blue line.



imagine hating the cops....


----------



## Randy

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> imagine hating the cops....



Imagine respecting law enforcement and simultaneously thinking deifying people for their job and not who they are is stupid. Fancy that.

The joke was that drive by military/law enforcement slacktivist iconography is a common FFDP troupe. That's no reflection on military/law enforcement, it's just an observation about bands and brands pandering to demographics.


----------



## Randy

Also, the joke itself (Spaced) is apolitical. Just because it's a phrase doesn't mean invoking it is instantly taking a position.


----------



## xzacx

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> imagine hating the cops....


Imagine being a kid into heavy metal and supporting cops—times have really changed. I'm glad I grew up with Body Count.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Having this conversation is ”SSO Bingo Card” levels of repetitive.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

MaxOfMetal said:


> Having this conversation is ”SSO Bingo Card” levels of repetitive.


Well it is how feds "sound out" potential snitches on-line these days.


----------



## vilk

I learned the phrase "the thin blue line" from watching TV shows. I love crime / homicide / detective type shows.

My understanding is that it refers to cops never busting other cops even when they do something illegal. They don't want to cross the "thin blue line", so they hold their tongue and let the crooked cop get away with it. But not the hero of [any given series], because they realize that crime is crime, and that even LEO should be held to the law. The crooked cops who bolster the thin blue line are the antagonists of the episode.

Am I mistaken in my understanding? I realize I shouldn't believe everything I learned from TV shows so maybe I'm wrong


----------



## spudmunkey

"the thin red line" is like a point of no return, where your safety can no longer be guaranteed. A line-in-the-sand, of sorts. It is based on a military formation, with the "red" being the british uniforms/coats.

There was a movie with that name that came out about the same time as Saving Private Ryan, if i remember right. It's been years i've seen it, but I took the title to mean that the soldiers working together were connected through bloodshed, and it their "brootherhood" was what kept them safe/going.

The way I always took the "thin blue line" is the same way it's on Wikipedia: "The "*thin blue line*" is a phrase that refers figuratively to the position of police in society as the force which holds back chaos." Which definitely as a "us vs them" connotation.

Which of course muddies the waters, as fire fghters use 'thin red line" as a way to firefighters who have fallen in the line of duty.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

spudmunkey said:


> "the thin red line" is like a point of no return, where your safety can no longer be guaranteed. A line-in-the-sand, of sorts.
> 
> The way I always took the "thin blue line" is the same way it's on Wikipedia: "The "*thin blue line*" is a phrase that refers figuratively to the position of police in society as the force which holds back chaos."
> 
> Which of course muddies the waters, as fire fghters use 'thin red line" as a way to firefighters who have fallen in the line of duty.


The US Supreme Court has already ruled that the police have NO legal responsibility whatsoever to protect anyone. Their only responsibility is to protect state property, nothing else. So the very idea of a "thin blue line" is itself a legalistic absurdity.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Randy said:


> Also, the joke itself (Spaced) is apolitical. Just because it's a phrase doesn't mean invoking it is instantly taking a position.


This. The joke, since it needed explaining, I guess, is that someone would pay more than $10 for literally a mostly straight line in blue tattoo ink.


----------



## Randy

Randy said:


> Made the thread title vanilla, since the brand seems to have legitimized itself at this point.



Spoke too soon.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Randy said:


> Spoke too soon.
> 
> View attachment 80390


well this won't end well


----------



## gunch

I mean sure he's personae non gratae here but he really didn't do anything illegal and he's very good at hyping shit, gauging from his tenure at Fortin

Still kind of icky though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> Spoke too soon.
> 
> View attachment 80390



All the nope. 

Oh well, it was cool while it lasted kinda.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Can someone explain? I am so confused...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Can someone explain? I am so confused...



Shady dude known for doing shady dude things now working for a company historically known for employing a bunch of shady dudes. 

It really doesn't matter, it's just sort of funny. 

Truthfully, I don't think it would ever be the deciding factor on buying one of these, but it's definitely a turn off in my head as far as the enthusiasm I have for the brand in it's current state. 

He'll move on to the next hype machine soon enough, so its a non-issue big picture.


----------



## DiezelMonster

MaxOfMetal said:


> Shady dude known for doing shady dude things now working for a company historically known for employing a bunch of shady dudes.
> 
> It really doesn't matter, it's just sort of funny.
> 
> Truthfully, I don't think it would ever be the deciding factor on buying one of these, but it's definitely a turn off in my head as far as the enthusiasm I have for the brand in it's current state.
> 
> He'll move on to the next hype machine soon enough, so its a non-issue big picture.




I agree with all of that, I'm friends with Mike Fortin, having bought two of his amps since 2008. But I've never understood why he had that guy be his "artist relations"

Perhaps this could be a good thing for B.C. Rich, since zakkkk may bring better artists or more relevant artists than 5 finger dick punch?

Either way, doesn't change the fact that Neal Moser is back and Dan Lawrence is back. If those guys are overseeing the build and Dave choen and BRJ have nothing to do with it, then one hype artist won't ruin the situation.

In fact it might help get rid of all that godamn ABALONE!

I just put in my order for my custom Ironbird. we shall see.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

DiezelMonster said:


> I agree with all of that, I'm friends with Mike Fortin, having bought two of his amps since 2008. But I've never understood why he had that guy be his "artist relations"
> 
> Perhaps this could be a good thing for B.C. Rich, since zakkkk may bring better artists or more relevant artists than 5 finger dick punch?
> 
> Either way, doesn't change the fact that Neal Moser is back and Dan Lawrence is back. If those guys are overseeing the build and Dave choen and BRJ have nothing to do with it, then one hype artist won't ruin the situation.
> 
> In fact it might help get rid of all that godamn ABALONE!
> 
> I just put in my order for my custom Ironbird. we shall see.


How did you spec it out?


----------



## DiezelMonster

Carl Kolchak said:


> How did you spec it out?



Expensively, unfortunately


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I mean not to derail the thread (i guess it is relevant though) like what has he done thats shady?


----------



## mbardu

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean not to derail the thread (i guess it is relevant though) like what has he done thats shady?



_25. No public discussion about suspended, banned members and/or past and present disciplinary action, outside of The Public Ban List._


----------



## Merrekof

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean not to derail the thread (i guess it is relevant though) like what has he done thats shady?


Dude keep quiet, they read everything! If you dig too deep they ban you or nuke the thread..

On a serious note, I'd follow SSO rules and ask google instead, if I were you.


----------



## Randy

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I mean not to derail the thread (i guess it is relevant though) like what has he done thats shady?



He was banned here and other places, along with the old class of gear flippers that were buying gear and selling it without divulging flaws/damage, making claims about it's history that were dubious or false (celebrity ownership, etc), as well as 'hyping' how great things were to drive price/demand up to sell it at an inflated price. This included things like talking up playability and condition of guitars they bought and hadn't even received yet. And that's shitty but not uber-shady until people were on the receiving end of those deals and got screwed.

It's not like we're just anal or out to get him, this happened a half dozen places that I'm aware of, all of which he got banned from.

I've talked to him a few times and he's a nice guy, so not a personal thing. Just, like... his brand of gear hyping is kinda toxic and a known commodity to most in this community.


----------



## Andromalia

Who's gonna have the guts to ban Randy now, I call.


----------



## GoldDragon

This guitar is so pretty it's ugly. In a good way.

I want this.


----------



## GoldDragon

GoldDragon said:


> This guitar is so pretty it's ugly. In a good way.
> 
> I want this.


Looking at this guitar closer, I can see it's a photoshop.

The pickups aren't at the correct top perspective, and the trem and trem route look artificial.

This is the Kylie Jenner guitar. Fake af.


----------



## twguitar

GoldDragon said:


> Looking at this guitar closer, I can see it's a photoshop.
> 
> The pickups aren't at the correct top perspective, and the trem and trem route look artificial.
> 
> This is the Kylie Jenner guitar. Fake af.


its not photoshop that’s a real guitar.


----------



## GoldDragon

Yes it exists, but the picture was probably a pre production mockup.

The real guitars don't look like the pics imo.

Or maybe they tweaked the color balance in the pic to make it look better. How do you see the side of a pickup bobbin from the top?

The pic looks brown gold in the middle, the real guitar looks green.


----------



## narad

GoldDragon said:


> Yes it exists, but the picture was probably a pre production mockup.



Lol, literally the exact guitar.


----------



## GoldDragon

narad said:


> Lol, literally the exact guitar.


It looks very different color.

Hey now, don't let the negativity of the politics forum spill over here, mkay?

I love the brown pic but the yellowish lime color one not so much.


----------



## narad

GoldDragon said:


> It looks very different color.
> 
> Hey now, don't let the negativity of the politics forum spill over here, mkay?
> 
> I love the brown pic but the yellowish lime color one not so much.



I'm just enjoying the whole doubling down on this. "Oh, I guess it was a real guitar after all, and not a mockup. I was mistaken."


----------



## GoldDragon

narad said:


> I'm just enjoying the whole doubling down on this. "Oh, I guess it was a real guitar after all, and not a mockup. I was mistaken."



I concede its a real guitar, but why don't you concede it looks very different?

Prior to making the original post I had been googling to see the actual guitars, and they look much different. 

I suspected it was a mock up, but it appears they must have tweaked the color balance to make it look that way. Original assertion still stands, this is a photoshop.


----------



## lewis

lol debating on a mockup vs real pictures?

Lockdown in full effect I see.

That aside. I like the top and the colours but hate all that abalone again.
They need to stop with that shit.

Like Shecter when everything had MOP tackiness all over it


----------



## narad

GoldDragon said:


> I concede its a real guitar, but why don't you concede it looks very different?
> 
> Prior to making the original post I had been googling to see the actual guitars, and they look much different.
> 
> I suspected it was a mock up, but it appears they must have tweaked the color balance to make it look that way. Original assertion still stands, this is a photoshop.



I've just taken photos of guitars before. I've seen a pic of Les Paul and gone to a shop to check it out and barely recognized it. It's just the nature of wood and stain and lighting, and not surprising to see or hear for anyone whose ever tried to photograph similar guitars. Not a conspiracy.


----------



## GoldDragon

narad said:


> I've just taken photos of guitars before. I've seen a pic of Les Paul and gone to a shop to check it out and barely recognized it. It's just the nature of wood and stain and lighting, and not surprising to see or hear for anyone whose ever tried to photograph similar guitars. Not a conspiracy.



Every photograph of that guitar (and the turquise one) look very different than the promo pics.

Conspiracy? No. Misrepresentation? Absolutely.

Guy bought one from MF and he said its a great guitar but looks nothing like the photos. So its not an issue of it "photographing bad." If the guitar in person looked like the photo, then no problem.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

I think it's more to do with the type of lighting rather than deliberate misrepresentation. The same way that all of my figured guitars look amazing out in sunlight but in most types of standard indoor lighting look meh. Studio lighting vs fluorescent vs boring ol' lamps n stuff. Obviously they'll try to take the most flattering pictures possible, which is weird because I like the non professional more saturated picture more. 

As for seeing the side of the bobbin from the top, that's easily explained by perspective. It's actually rather difficult to get a 100% head on shot where you can't see the edges of something on the guitar.


----------



## High Plains Drifter

Abalone binding is only digestible alongside more solid and/ or subdued colors and wood-grains. Once there's too much bright busyness, it quickly turns into a Liberace-inspired acid trip jmo.


----------



## GoldDragon

High Plains Drifter said:


> it quickly turns into a Liberace-inspired acid trip jmo.



Coolest thing I've read on here.

I think if you own that guitar, you better have the skills to back it up.

The reason I like it is because contemporary guitars went the other way. Like the washed out drab Tom Quayle guitars that look like a slab of the boardwalk. This isn't afraid to be out ther.


----------



## Alexa run my life

Why all the abalone?


----------



## Merrekof

Alexa run my life said:


> Why all the abalone?


Because they want to stand out?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Alexa run my life said:


> Why all the abalone?



A wormhole back to 2005 opened up.


----------



## GoldDragon

lewis said:


> Like Shecter when everything had MOP tackiness all over it



That MOP tackiness helped put Schecter on the map.

Maybe a smaller company uses something like that to distinguish itself.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

GoldDragon said:


> That MOP tackiness helped put Schecter on the map.



I think it was more the quality relative to price, as well as willingness to cater to smaller niches helped solidify them amongst the first tier of mainstream metal guitar brands.

I remember most complaining about the abalone but being perfectly content ignoring it given the price and specs at the time.

Also remember, LTD was putting abalone on everything at that time as well.

If I had to guess, I'd say the new ownership's preference for abalone matches that of their own previous signature guitars.


----------



## GoldDragon

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think it was more the quality relative to price, as well as willingness to cater to smaller niches helped solidify them amongst the first tier of mainstream metal guitar brands.
> 
> I remember most complaining about the abalone but being perfectly content ignoring it given the price and specs at the time.
> 
> Also remember, LTD was putting abalone on everything at that time as well.
> 
> If I had to guess, I'd say the new ownership's preference for abalone matches that of their own previous signature guitars.



OK, I dont know the history of it.

You can get a million unbound superstrats. There are alot of bound boards 99.9 with white.

Very few abalone. And very few bound maple at that.

I think its the kind of thing you would start to appreciate when you played it. Finer details are nice, many acoustics get that treatment. But I agree, it doesn't meet the mainstream definition of "cool" which is somewhere between a hipster beard and an apple commercial.

Hipsters wear a "uniform" in an attempt to look like they put zero effort into it, but they put alot of work and beard trimming into their image. And there is alot of conformity. This guitar is the opposite of that.

From what I read, this is a mexican build?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

GoldDragon said:


> OK, I dont know the history of it.
> 
> You can get a million unbound superstrats. There are alot of bound boards 99.9 with white.
> 
> Very few abalone. And very few bound maple at that.
> 
> I think its the kind of thing you would start to appreciate when you played it. Finer details are nice, many acoustics get that treatment. But I agree, it doesn't meet the mainstream definition of "cool" which is somewhere between a hipster beard and an apple commercial.
> 
> Hipsters wear a "uniform" in an attempt to look like they put zero effort into it, but they put alot of work and beard trimming into their image. And there is alot of conformity. This guitar is the opposite of that.
> 
> From what I read, this is a mexican build?



I mean, if you dig it it's all good. No reason to need to justify it. Everyone has different tastes.

These are South Korean built.

Personally, I remember when it was harder to find a guitar without abalone. Been there, done that.


----------



## Hollowway

Plus, stuff goes in cycles. We're coming off a fancy top wood cycle, and entering into the "paint is cool" cycle again, for instance. Eventually we'll get bored of the austere esthetic, and like these. So, I have no problem with buying one with abalone, so long as it's not too ridiculous. I was thisclose to buying that Shredzilla 8 with Floyd, but I decided to wait to see if they tweaked the routing for the Floyd, based on tremlicking's review. And now we're in covid, and I'm too scared to spend money, because I don't know what the next 6 months looks like.

And, I think the abalone looks better on the 8, because the neck is wider, so it doesn't look so busy on the FB.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

still no 7 string ironbird pics ? smdh


----------



## GoldDragon

Hollowway said:


> Plus, stuff goes in cycles. We're coming off a fancy top wood cycle, and entering into the "paint is cool" cycle again, for instance. Eventually we'll get bored of the austere esthetic, and like these. So, I have no problem with buying one with abalone, so long as it's not too ridiculous. I was thisclose to buying that Shredzilla 8 with Floyd, but I decided to wait to see if they tweaked the routing for the Floyd, based on tremlicking's review. And now we're in covid, and I'm too scared to spend money, because I don't know what the next 6 months looks like.
> 
> And, I think the abalone looks better on the 8, because the neck is wider, so it doesn't look so busy on the FB.



I'm in the same situation! Could buy something, but don't know what the future holds so I'm doing alot of looking.


----------



## Alexa run my life

Merrekof said:


> Because they want to stand out?


If by stand out you mean "blind you", they've accomplished that alright.


----------



## iLike myMetalBlack

GoldDragon said:


> OK, I dont know the history of it.
> 
> You can get a million unbound superstrats. There are alot of bound boards 99.9 with white.
> 
> Very few abalone. And very few bound maple at that.
> 
> I think its the kind of thing you would start to appreciate when you played it. Finer details are nice, many acoustics get that treatment. But I agree, it doesn't meet the mainstream definition of "cool" which is somewhere between a hipster beard and an apple commercial.
> 
> Hipsters wear a "uniform" in an attempt to look like they put zero effort into it, but they put alot of work and beard trimming into their image. And there is alot of conformity. This guitar is the opposite of that.
> 
> From what I read, this is a mexican build?


a 5FDP sig is worse than catering to hipsters. besides, given how much hate abalone gets hipsters probably think its cool


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

GoldDragon said:


> This guitar is so pretty it's ugly. In a good way.
> 
> I want this.




Bro look at this 

https://www.redblanketguitars.com/p...oyd-Rose-2-Finishes-478.html?cPath=10_451_456

Its the lighting that does it. A more subdued lighting will make it look like what is in the link above


----------



## zappatton2

iLike myMetalBlack said:


> a 5FDP sig is worse than catering to hipsters. besides, given how much hate abalone gets hipsters probably think its cool


It may have been mentioned, but are the inlays (dragon on first fret, or the weird crown one on the Extreme series) associated with FFDP? I was thinking about one of those when I get my tax return, but that's a big turn-off for me.


----------



## Merrekof

zappatton2 said:


> It may have been mentioned, but are the inlays (dragon on first fret, or the weird crown one on the Extreme series) associated with FFDP? I was thinking about one of those when I get my tax return, but that's a big turn-off for me.


Possibly. IIRC, Zoltan had a couple of sig guitars with BC Rich with that dragon or lion or whatever inlay. Haven't seen the crowns though.


----------



## Deep Blue

I was just looking at the inlays again and realized that they are the little flame the dragon/Godzilla thing from the 1st fret is shooting, and now I can't unsee the fretboard as an approach to Bowser Super Mario Bros. style


----------



## Andromalia

GoldDragon said:


> Hipsters wear a "uniform" in an attempt to look like they put zero effort into it, but they put alot of work and beard trimming into their image.



Sometimes I have to remind people that no, I don't look _like _an old 90es metalhead. I _am _one. And I can therefore say that abalone isn't hipster: it was never cool to begin with.
At least, it has a bright bonus: looking short-hair people headbang with their knees is profoundly funny.

tip to bands: don't do it, it looks stupid. Yes, even you, [insertafewprettywellknownbandshere].


----------



## bloodocean

Deep Blue said:


> I was just looking at the inlays again and realized that they are the little flame the dragon/Godzilla thing from the 1st fret is shooting, and now I can't unsee the fretboard as an approach to Bowser Super Mario Bros. style



Maybe the dragon is “shredzilla” ?


----------



## GoldDragon

bloodocean said:


> Maybe the dragon is “shredzilla” ?



I'm getting one now!


----------



## GoldDragon

Andromalia said:


> Sometimes I have to remind people that no, I don't look _like _an old 90es metalhead. I _am _one. And I can therefore say that abalone isn't hipster: it was never cool to begin with.
> At least, it has a bright bonus: looking short-hair people headbang with their knees is profoundly funny.
> 
> tip to bands: don't do it, it looks stupid. Yes, even you, [insertafewprettywellknownbandshere].



I said that abalone was the antithesis of hipster. And thats a good thing.


----------



## Alexa run my life

The only thing cheesier than a dragon inlay would be flaming dice!


----------



## GoldDragon

Alexa run my life said:


> The only thing cheesier than a dragon inlay would be flaming dice!



I think its much more tasteful, than say the razor blade inlays on the Dimebag guitars.

Much more tasteful than the medieval crosses and whatnot.

Most people wont even see that the first fret is a dragon.


----------



## Merrekof

Actually, I think the dragon inlay would be kinda cool, if that was the only thing in abalone. That shredzilla is just way too much colour variation in one guitar.

Also I'm not sure if that dragon inlay is really Zoltan/5FDP related. I'm not really into them tbh..


----------



## Merrekof

Actually, I think the dragon inlay would be kinda cool, if that was the only thing in abalone. That shredzilla is just way too much colour variation in one guitar.

Also I'm not sure if that dragon inlay is really Zoltan/5FDP related. I'm not really into them tbh..


----------



## Alexa run my life

GoldDragon said:


> I think its much more tasteful, than say the razor blade inlays on the Dimebag guitars.
> 
> Much more tasteful than the medieval crosses and whatnot.
> 
> Most people wont even see that the first fret is a dragon.


I like dragons in general, but it just makes me think of something like this 



By the way, the upload file button makes it so easy to upload photos....TGP really needs to catch up with the times!


----------



## spudmunkey

Alexa run my life said:


> I like dragons in general, but it just makes me think of something like this
> View attachment 80545
> 
> 
> By the way, the upload file button makes it so easy to upload photos....TGP really needs to catch up with the times!



Even easier: You can just copy/paste an image into the text box. Don't even need to download the image and reupload, nor do you neet to get an embeddable URL to use the IMG tags.


----------



## GoldDragon

Alexa run my life said:


> I like dragons in general, but it just makes me think of something like this
> View attachment 80545
> 
> 
> By the way, the upload file button makes it so easy to upload photos....TGP really needs to catch up with the times!




Two dice is Pair o' Dice, or "Paradise".

A flaming pair of dice is "Flaming Paradise". Not down for that.

Taseful little first fret dragon is cool though.

BTW, does anyone know if it comes with a case? $1500+ guitars usually do.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

GoldDragon said:


> Two dice is Pair o' Dice, or "Paradise".
> 
> A flaming pair of dice is "Flaming Paradise". Not down for that.
> 
> Taseful little first fret dragon is cool though.
> 
> BTW, does anyone know if it comes with a case? $1500+ guitars usually do.



they do not


----------



## eaeolian

MaxOfMetal said:


> A wormhole back to 2005 opened up.



Indeed. This is annoying as hell. Otherwise they would have smashed it out of the park.


----------



## GoldDragon

eaeolian said:


> Indeed. This is annoying as hell. Otherwise they would have smashed it out of the park.


If there was no abalone, everyone would be accusing it of being a Jackson copy.

Market is full of drab and serious guitars.

If they can elevate the design by adding extra detail, why not? Because it's different than what everyone else is doing?

I actually like the switching system too although I would be tempted to put the switch where the first volume is.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

imagine defending abalone on a guitar


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

KnightBrolaire said:


> imagine defending abalone on a guitar



people defend gibson honestly not out of the ordinary


----------



## lewis

KnightBrolaire said:


> imagine defending abalone on a guitar



This!

Looks tacky as shit and other than the dark black MOP used on the newest Warlock shown in here.

Purfling would look loads better. I like bound fretboards with binding etc but Abalone?
Im 30 now and started guitar at 17. In that time ive not once owned a guitar that had Abalone binding/Inlays.
Hideous looking stuff.


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

KnightBrolaire said:


> imagine defending abalone on a guitar


Imagine liking something 

No but really, I assume you all understand that. But the abalone market is huge in Asia, mostly Japan. They love their flashy guitars. It mostly a point of market they try to cater to. Unfortunately it doesn't always pan out for everyone, but hey, who'd've though


----------



## KnightBrolaire

The Spanish Inquisition said:


> Imagine liking something
> 
> No but really, I assume you all understand that. But the abalone market is huge in Asia, mostly Japan. They love their flashy guitars. It mostly a point of market they try to cater to. Unfortunately it doesn't always pan out for everyone, but hey, who'd've though


imagine mansplaining PeOpLe HaVe DiFfEreNt TaStEs BrO
I am acutely aware that japan like flashy guitars. I mean I like flashy guitars, but abalone only works with certain paint jobs where it pops (eg some darker finish to give more contrast) and it's been so overdone in the last 15+ years. Schecter in particular ruined abalone for everyone. Point being that BCR is way behind the curve in terms of trends with the abalone and shit burl. They may as well bring back the tribal shit so I can fill out my "godawful guitar design choices" bingo card.


----------



## GoldDragon

KnightBrolaire said:


> imagine mansplaining PeOpLe HaVe DiFfEreNt TaStEs BrO



Imagine a man complaining about another man mansplaining.

Yeah, its as bad as it sounds.


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

KnightBrolaire said:


> imagine mansplaining PeOpLe HaVe DiFfEreNt TaStEs BrO
> I am acutely aware that japan like flashy guitars. I mean I like flashy guitars, but abalone only works with certain paint jobs where it pops (eg some darker finish to give more contrast) and it's been so overdone in the last 15+ years. Schecter in particular ruined abalone for everyone. Point being that BCR is way behind the curve in terms of trends with the abalone and shit burl. They may as well bring back the tribal shit so I can fill out my "godawful guitar design choices" bingo card.


Oh boy, while they're at it, let's get them to reissue the Beast V as well!


----------



## GoldDragon

Why is everyone shitting on the new BC Rich?


----------



## Randy

GoldDragon said:


> Why is everyone shitting on the new BC Rich?



Abalone was polarizing. If you go back before the Engage conversation and the current one after you posted that burl thing, it's been everybody talking about how badass all the new stuff looks for like 10 pages.


----------



## Viginez

because no kahlers


----------



## Carl Kolchak

No ERG 7s then?


----------



## Merrekof

The Spanish Inquisition said:


> Oh boy, while they're at it, let's get them to reissue the Beast V as well!


Erase this from the history books, please.


----------



## GoldDragon

Randy said:


> Abalone was polarizing. If you go back before the Engage conversation and the current one after you posted that burl thing, it's been everybody talking about how badass all the new stuff looks for like 10 pages.



Ah ok. I'm over the color thing.

Seems like everyone wanted a bare bones single color Gunslinger and didn't get it. Earlier in the thread they posted pics of some 80s aesthetic guitars and they aren't on the website yet.


I think people should just be patient.


----------



## Randy

Agreed. I didn't love the first batch but they seem to consider all suggestions and have already evolved quite a bit. I'm amazed they rolled out single hum Ironbirds in the old school carve!

I don't think any of the new stuff is in my budget but of one of those Ironbirds hits the used market sub-$1000, I might need to sell some stuff to make room.


----------



## eaeolian

Yeah, the new ones they're posting on IG look good. Just the abalone is a tad ridiculous.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

eaeolian said:


> Yeah, the new ones they're posting on IG look good. Just the abalone is a tad ridiculous.





It'll be interesting seeing the roll out of the Instagram stuff.


----------



## GoldDragon

MaxOfMetal said:


> It'll be interesting seeing the roll out of the Instagram stuff.



I just checked the instagram... Very cool. This is my new favorite brand. 

It looks like they are making quality mid/hi price guitars from SK. It looks like they are following the Charvel strategy of making only mid+ price guitars, no entry level instruments.

Most of the guitars have OFR, its nice to see that. And the evertune. They are using the best bridges when everyone else like Ibanez and MM is going to traditional non-locking.

I like the headstock and the neck through. I like the finishes. They are reviving all the old classic BCR designs, which means this is a brand with a history/pedigree, not some new thing like Agile, Solar, Chapman, etc.

And yes, I even like the abalone. So much guitar playing is shared online, its good to have something that pops.

Charvels are pretty cool, but most of them are playing with the retro "san dimas" vibe. Just a block heel and 22 frets most of them. Jacksons in this price range are indonesian and I don't like the headstock. Ibanez has gone off into hipster territory and are overpriced.


----------



## bloodocean

GoldDragon said:


> Most of the guitars have OFR, its nice to see that.



Heard earlier that they’re spec’d with 1000 series FR Bridges. Not quite OFR spec, but way better than the “special” one.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm hoping if they roll out more budget stuff, it's more on the quality of Solar, G&L, Hagstrom, and PRS SE rather than Jackson. Seems inevitable that we'll get a cheaper MiC/Mii/MiT line. 

Also yeah, the FR1000s and OFRs look similar. Both have "Floyd Rose" on them and are pretty much made of the same materials.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

GoldDragon said:


> Why is everyone shitting on the new BC Rich?



Because they aren't releasing what the people want and do not listen to us when they say they do.

Alongside that they continue trying to copy shit like Ibanez when they should just be "B.C. Rich."

No 7 string ironbirds, no real ironbirds in general. There is tons and tons of shit that they AREN'T DOING! They need to be doing the things they should be doing as a brand not what they are doing now.

And I own two of the new BCR models so yeah


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

GoldDragon said:


> I just checked the instagram... Very cool. This is my new favorite brand.
> 
> It looks like they are making quality mid/hi price guitars from SK. It looks like they are following the Charvel strategy of making only mid+ price guitars, no entry level instruments.
> 
> Most of the guitars have OFR, its nice to see that. And the evertune. They are using the best bridges when everyone else like Ibanez and MM is going to traditional non-locking.
> 
> I like the headstock and the neck through. I like the finishes. They are reviving all the old classic BCR designs, which means this is a brand with a history/pedigree, not some new thing like Agile, Solar, Chapman, etc.
> 
> And yes, I even like the abalone. So much guitar playing is shared online, its good to have something that pops.
> 
> Charvels are pretty cool, but most of them are playing with the retro "san dimas" vibe. Just a block heel and 22 frets most of them. Jacksons in this price range are indonesian and I don't like the headstock. Ibanez has gone off into hipster territory and are overpriced.




I will say that most of them are quality, but my two shredzillas both have flaws, mainly on the fretboard. Cracks, missing abalone purfling, black filler missing, tool marks etc.


----------



## GoldDragon

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I will say that most of them are quality, but my two shredzillas both have flaws, mainly on the fretboard. Cracks, missing abalone purfling, black filler missing, tool marks etc.



Is it not worth $1500 in your opinion?


----------



## beerandbeards

Still waiting on that Chuck Schuldiner Tribute reissue....


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

GoldDragon said:


> Is it not worth $1500 in your opinion?



They are great guitars but the ones I have got have some QC issues.

I would suggest you buy one, but comb over it over the whole guitar. If there are many flaws return it


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Guys this might be the final straw...... wtf


----------



## spudmunkey

Because a company is adding an account on the single fastest-growing social media platform in the world? Meh.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

spudmunkey said:


> Because a company is adding an account on the single fastest-growing social media platform in the world? Meh.



bro it just seems like a muthafuckin waste of money. Putting yourself on a platform that is mainly kids who couldn't give less of a shit about guitar. This shit just irks me. They should be spending money making products that the people actually want.


----------



## spudmunkey

"Bro", how much do you think they are spending? The image in the thumbnail is a photo they already put in IG.

And yes, Tik Tok is mainly younger people. Younger people who get their parents to buy them an iPhone 12 even though they already have an 11s. There are also a shit ton of guitarists in it. Also, many people in it simply arent on FB or IG.

Make no mistake, I hate it, dont use it, and they are actually one of my clients. But I cant deny their place and influence.

Dismissing the platform sounds a but like those people who say things like, "nobody goes there anymore, because of the crowds".


----------



## Merrekof

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Because they aren't releasing what the people want and do not listen to us when they say they do.
> 
> Alongside that they continue trying to copy shit like Ibanez when they should just be "B.C. Rich."
> 
> No 7 string ironbirds, no real ironbirds in general. There is tons and tons of shit that they AREN'T DOING! They need to be doing the things they should be doing as a brand not what they are doing now.
> 
> And I own two of the new BCR models so yeah


Well they don't necessarily have to do the dings we want. Besides, it's sales that'll probably dictate the future.
But I've said this 100 pages ago, why put so much effort and different models of yet another superstrat when BC Rich has lots of unique designs. 
And the lack of 7 strings, aside from the superstrats.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Merrekof said:


> Well they don't necessarily have to do the dings we want. Besides, it's sales that'll probably dictate the future.
> But I've said this 100 pages ago, why put so much effort and different models of yet another superstrat when BC Rich has lots of unique designs.
> And the lack of 7 strings, aside from the superstrats.




Exactly. When I think of BCR when I want to buy one I think of Ironbirds, stealths, beasts, zombies, etc. 

Sure the gunslingers are cool but they are over saturated guitar. How many companies are offering something like a beast/ironbird? Not many, that's why I like BCR.

I give em till the end of the year to release a simple ironbird/stealth and if not then I am ditching them as a brand.


----------



## GoldDragon

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> bro it just seems like a muthafuckin waste of money. Putting yourself on a platform that is mainly kids who couldn't give less of a shit about guitar. This shit just irks me. They should be spending money making products that the people actually want.


They are paying someone for marketing. Maybe evenTeven someone overseas who works for cheap. Probably same graphic designer who made that badass collage.

Creating a tiktok acct takes minutes. Updating it when you are already on FB, Instagram, etc is no big deal.

This sounds like.. Get off my lawn! And...Old man shouting at cloud.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

GoldDragon said:


> They are paying someone for marketing. Maybe evenTeven someone overseas who works for cheap. Probably same graphic designer who made that badass collage.
> 
> Creating a tiktok acct takes minutes. Updating it when you are already on FB, Instagram, etc is no big deal.
> 
> This sounds like.. Get off my lawn! And...Old man shouting at cloud.




Oh well.


----------



## Merrekof

And about tiktok.. I have no clue, I don't have that or Instagram. I barely even check up on facebook but these days, if you skip social media, your business is gonna suffer. These are the new billboards and tv ads.

Besides, even if Tiktok is a bunch of kids, these kids will grow up in a couple of years. They might start playing guitar and form bands so it makes sense for a "modern guitar" company to aim at the younger, upcoming generation.


----------



## trem licking

They HAVE to make gunslingers/shredzillas... They are only making mid/high priced gear and the strat style is what sells the most. They will release their other shapes, they came out the gate with quite an offering. Keep in mind they are competing with a pandemic right now too so be like axle and have a little patience heh heh. I also have to give them cred for having the balls to release an 8 string with floyd... They will be releasing more models with that too. They definitely get my support


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

trem licking said:


> They HAVE to make gunslingers/shredzillas... They are only making mid/high priced gear and the strat style is what sells the most. They will release their other shapes, they came out the gate with quite an offering. Keep in mind they are competing with a pandemic right now too so be like axle and have a little patience heh heh. I also have to give them cred for having the balls to release an 8 string with floyd... They will be releasing more models with that too. They definitely get my support



Yes, but a simple black ironbird with one humbucker, a Floyd, 24 frets, reversed 6 in line headstock, 25.5" scale and a DiMarzio x2n/fluence modern humbucker and a blank ebony board (or with inlays at the 12th) for $1100-$1400 would sell like hot cakes. That type of shit is what the BCR fans want. they want the ironbirds.

Sure the shredzillas/strats are what is gonna be the vanilla shit, but lets be honest man when people think of BCR they think about the outrageousness of the brand like the shapes and designs and what not.


----------



## Aliascent

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yes, but a simple black ironbird with one humbucker, a Floyd, 24 frets, reversed 6 in line headstock, 25.5" scale and a DiMarzio x2n/fluence modern humbucker and a blank ebony board (or with inlays at the 12th) for $1100-$1400 would sell like hot cakes. That type of shit is what the BCR fans want. they want the ironbirds.
> 
> Sure the shredzillas/strats are what is gonna be the vanilla shit, but lets be honest man when people think of BCR they think about the outrageousness of the brand like the shapes and designs and what not.



I'd also accept strat-likes in outrageous colors - Tony MacAlpine style. And it seems that the 80's are back, so it could happen ?


----------



## GoldDragon

jkhlkj


----------



## uni777

Originally it is a modified mockingbird. (Straighten all the mocks angles) and was designed (I believe by Joey Rico) in 83.
It precedes the beast, warbeast, zombie and all the later models by many decades.


And that dragon inlay on some models is not a 5FDP thing but a stylized shredzilla.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Aliascent said:


> I'd also accept strat-likes in outrageous colors - Tony MacAlpine style. And it seems that the 80's are back, so it could happen ?



yes but as someone who owns 4 s style guitars I want something pointy. Not many brands offer stuff that I would like. I would be all over the ESP arrow but I don't like the shape. jackson (pro series) have some shoddy QC so I rule them out.

It seems like BCR is the only brand that can provide what I desire without going custom. It would be cool to see some old school slinger reissues, totally agree, but fuck man what the hell is so hard with coming out with what I listed especially when it would sell out.

Seems that a dealer is going to have to do a limited run before BCR does anything of the like. When I get whiff of one starting I am putting money down on the preorder


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

uni777 said:


> Originally it is a modified mockingbird. (Straighten all the mocks angles) and was designed (I believe by Joey Rico) in 83.
> It precedes the beast, warbeast, zombie and all the later models by many decades.
> 
> 
> And that dragon inlay on some models is not a 5FDP thing but a stylized shredzilla.



I believe your history is correct on that.

The beast is also another underrated shape. Soo killer


----------



## Aliascent

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> yes but as someone who owns 4 s style guitars I want something pointy. Not many brands offer stuff that I would like. I would be all over the ESP arrow but I don't like the shape. jackson (pro series) have some shoddy QC so I rule them out.
> 
> It seems like BCR is the only brand that can provide what I desire without going custom. It would be cool to see some old school slinger reissues, totally agree, but fuck man what the hell is so hard with coming out with what I listed especially when it would sell out.
> 
> Seems that a dealer is going to have to do a limited run before BCR does anything of the like. When I get whiff of one starting I am putting money down on the preorder



As someone with a warlock, mockingbird and ironbird (and who misses his NT Jr.V), I feel you.


----------



## uni777

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I believe your history is correct on that.
> 
> The beast is also another underrated shape. Soo killer


I've been playing BC rich for 30 years. 
And used to have a huge collection of all catalogues as far back as the late eighties. The old Moser Forum was also a huge source of information on BC Rich.
All the BC rich V shapes, also, came after the initial extreme shapes. The jrV named after Bernie Rico junior is the long upper wing of the Ironbird mark 2 mirrored. A lot of the shapes are modifications of other ones. The warlock is rumored to be a Bich which was traced with a set of french curves by Bernie Rico senior.

I do not think they will return the beast. As they did a shitty thing to Brian Hoffman who designed it and got his design stolen by them... (unless they give him a fair deal)
I suppose that is why there is a warbeast..


----------



## GoldDragon

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yes, but a simple black ironbird with one humbucker, a Floyd, 24 frets, reversed 6 in line headstock, 25.5" scale and a DiMarzio x2n/fluence modern humbucker and a blank ebony board (or with inlays at the 12th) for $1100-$1400 would sell like hot cakes. That type of shit is what the BCR fans want. they want the ironbirds.
> 
> Sure the shredzillas/strats are what is gonna be the vanilla shit, but lets be honest man when people think of BCR they think about the outrageousness of the brand like the shapes and designs and what not.


I wouldnt buy this.

Put some fret markers and a neck pickup and I might. But that purple Ironbird is already badass. I'd rather have the purple bound one they already make.


----------



## Vostre Roy

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Yes, but a simple black ironbird with one humbucker, a Floyd, 24 frets, reversed 6 in line headstock, 25.5" scale and a DiMarzio x2n/fluence modern humbucker and a blank ebony board (or with inlays at the 12th) for $1100-$1400 would sell like hot cakes. That type of shit is what the BCR fans want. they want the ironbirds.





GoldDragon said:


> I wouldnt buy this.
> 
> Put some fret markers and a neck pickup and I might. But that purple Ironbird is already badass. I'd rather have the purple bound one they already make.



Do not want to sounds like an ass, but you guys just perfectly pictured why its impossible to make everyone happy in the guitar realm. We all have our "dream setup" in mind but you might end up having to get the middle ground or go full custom to get exactly what you want.

I personally wait until I see the final full lineup before deciding on what sub-model Ironbird I'll get, but I don't set my expectation for a particular setup, I'll probably have to make concession on the final specs to get something as close as possible to what I picture in my head.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Their FB page hinted that a 7-string Warlock is in the works.


----------



## GoldDragon

Vostre Roy said:


> Do not want to sounds like an ass, but you guys just perfectly pictured why its impossible to make everyone happy in the guitar realm.



Thats why I made the post. The other guy said something like "thats the guitar everyone wants" and actually, no I wouldnt buy a 1500 guitar without a neck pickup or fret markers.

I guess this is why Kiesel is a thing.


----------



## Viginez

GoldDragon said:


> The other guy said something like "thats the guitar everyone wants"


*everyone, that knows (old school) bc rich
but if you just discovered the brand and like purple/pink/flashy/abalone stuff, the new bcrich might just be for you.


----------



## Randy

Anyone else notice the IG account has been quiet lately?


----------



## lewis

Carl Kolchak said:


> Their FB page hinted that a 7-string Warlock is in the works.


the one I had was decent and I flipped it for profit which was nice.
I wanted more though


----------



## Seabeast2000

Randy said:


> Anyone else notice the IG account has been quiet lately?


Coinciding with new marketing hire?


----------



## Randy

Seabeast2000 said:


> Coinciding with new marketing hire?



Yes although I guess I spoke too soon because they posted like three times today  Still was radio silence for like, a week. Odd.


----------



## electriceye

Aliascent said:


> I'd also accept strat-likes in outrageous colors - Tony MacAlpine style. And it seems that the 80's are back, so it could happen ?



As I said way earlier in this thread, BCR *completely* missed the boat on the superstrat revival. The original Gunslingers are still considered some of the best SSs ever made. What did BCR do? Made shit Korean copies that didn’t even adhere to the original specs. The US-made GS and ST-IIIs sold VERY well in the mid-late 80’s. No excuse why they didn’t jump on them again over the past decade.


----------



## GoldDragon

electriceye said:


> As I said way earlier in this thread, BCR *completely* missed the boat on the superstrat revival. The original Gunslingers are still considered some of the best SSs ever made. What did BCR do? Made shit Korean copies that didn’t even adhere to the original specs. The US-made GS and ST-IIIs sold VERY well in the mid-late 80’s. No excuse why they didn’t jump on them again over the past decade.



I saw those Gunslinger reissues about 7 years ago. Almost bought one.

I didn't know there was a "superstrat" revival. Some form of superstrat has always been at least half of market, in my estimation. Ibanez has been carrying that torch for 35 years. And Jackson.

What do you mean by superstrat revival? You mean the Charvels?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I think they meant it is en vogue again.


----------



## zappatton2

I suspect super-strats will always be en vogue. And I'm never gonna get it. Never ever gonna get it.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## Alexa run my life

Warlocks always look heavy as shit


----------



## spudmunkey

Alexa run my life said:


> Warlocks always look heavy as shit



*Warbeast


----------



## Alexa run my life

spudmunkey said:


> *Warbeast


Ah thanks. Yeah I dont know BC Rich too much but this one looks heavy too


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

I am just waiting patiently for a NJ revival line so we can actually get some good shit that isn't decked in abalone and isn't 1600 fuckin' dollars


----------



## GoldDragon

The abalone won me over. Kinda like fake tits did.

I mean you can tell they're not natural, kinda gaudy..but does it really matter if they stir the loins?


----------



## High Plains Drifter

GoldDragon said:


> The abalone won me over. Kinda like fake tits did.
> 
> I mean you can tell they're not natural, kinda gaudy..but does it really matter if they stir the loins?



I dunno, man... a botched breast-job is no more fun to look at than an overabundance of laminated sea snail remnants.


----------



## BornToLooze

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> people defend gibson honestly not out of the ordinary



I love Gibson, but I had to play enough of them to find the one, I get the hate.


Has there been any talk of making more see through plastic Warlocks? There was a guitar store by the college I went to that had one, and it was a horrible guitar, but goddamn was it cool looking.


----------



## spudmunkey

My local store had a green acrylic Mockingbird that was a popular "tourist attraction"...the guitar that everyone made a bee-line for when you visited the store...but nobody bought it for years.


----------



## Merrekof

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I am just waiting patiently for a NJ revival line so we can actually get some good shit that isn't decked in abalone and isn't 1600 fuckin' dollars


The NJ Deluxe series had abalone binding? Granted, it was on a solid black guitar and wasn't as flashy at all. They didn't overdo it, unlike the recent models imo...



BornToLooze said:


> Has there been any talk of making more see through plastic Warlocks? There was a guitar store by the college I went to that had one, and it was a horrible guitar, but goddamn was it cool looking.


Ahhhh yes, the acrylic series. They were cool to see them in a store but I can't imagine someone buying these. Maybe some over the top glam metal, Japanese or party/porn-grind band..?


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Oh god... Green acrylic 27" MIK Mockinbird/Bich 7-string? I think the sight of such awesomeness would literally alter the structure of my brain.


----------



## Blytheryn

Who wants to start a party porn grind band?!


Merrekof said:


> The NJ Deluxe series had abalone binding? Granted, it was on a solid black guitar and wasn't as flashy at all. They didn't overdo it, unlike the recent models imo...
> 
> 
> Ahhhh yes, the acrylic series. They were cool to see them in a store but I can't imagine someone buying these. Maybe some over the top glam metal, Japanese or party/porn-grind band..?



I’m in, who else wants to start a party porn grind band?


----------



## GoldDragon

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I think they meant it is en vogue again.



Again? Weren't they always en vogue since EVH?

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but I didn't know they were ever out of favor.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Randy said:


> Spoke too soon.
> 
> View attachment 80390


Holy cow. How is this guy still around with his extremely lengthy (somewhat well-documented) track record of negative behavior on forums and in groups? Plus, he's been canned from working at a handful of brands already.



Randy said:


> He was banned here and other places, along with the old class of gear flippers that were buying gear and selling it without divulging flaws/damage, making claims about it's history that were dubious or false (celebrity ownership, etc), as well as 'hyping' how great things were to drive price/demand up to sell it at an inflated price. This included things like talking up playability and condition of guitars they bought and hadn't even received yet. And that's shitty but not uber-shady until people were on the receiving end of those deals and got screwed.
> 
> It's not like we're just anal or out to get him, this happened a half dozen places that I'm aware of, all of which he got banned from.


What a flashback. Those were some wild times, guys.


----------



## BornToLooze

Merrekof said:


> Ahhhh yes, the acrylic series. They were cool to see them in a store but I can't imagine someone buying these. Maybe some over the top glam metal, Japanese or party/porn-grind band..?



Didn't one of the dudes in Machine Head have one?


----------



## gunch

Guys I’m telling you 

black pearloid instead of abalone.


----------



## Merrekof

BornToLooze said:


> Didn't one of the dudes in Machine Head have one?


No that you mention it.. Rob Flynn did have an acrylic warlock IIRC.


----------



## Joel

Way too much abalone all over the models I've seen for my taste.

Take the abalone off this and then I'd buy one.


----------



## lewis

gunch said:


> Guys I’m telling you
> 
> black pearloid instead of abalone.


THIS 

looks infinitely better


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

gunch said:


> Guys I’m telling you
> 
> black pearloid instead of abalone.









You're on to something there, @gunch.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

BornToLooze said:


> Didn't one of the dudes in Machine Head have one?


Dez was playing one when I saw the Jerry-fits some time ago. It sounded amazing actually.


----------



## spudmunkey

gunch said:


> Guys I’m telling you
> 
> black pearloid instead of abalone.



So actual abalone shell is trash, but plastic "mother of toilet seat" is better?


----------



## High Plains Drifter

Joel said:


> Way too much abalone all over the models I've seen for my taste.
> 
> Take the abalone off this and then I'd buy one.



I actually think that this is a good example of abalone working 'with' the shape rather than against it. I think it compliments the matte/ satin finish. It also looks as if this particular abalone color is more subdued so that may have something to do with the appeal. If it appeared to be more colorful, that would quickly kill it for me. Regardless... That Mockingbird above would look absolutely sick with a deep black ebony or Richlite board and bound in black pearloid.


----------



## gunch

spudmunkey said:


> So actual abalone shell is trash, but plastic "mother of toilet seat" is better?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

pearloid can be cool *when done sparingly.* 


Whole body/neck done in it? HELLLL NAW


----------



## gunch

KnightBrolaire said:


> pearloid can be cool *when done sparingly.*
> 
> 
> Whole body/neck done in it? HELLLL NAW



Im just saying as a baseline it’s a marked improvement over abalone as a purfling substance

1. It’s black and fits thematically for a Hellraiser/LTD 1000/BCR Extreme level guitar 

2. It goes well aesthetically with the colors chosen for said production guitars 

3. Plastic use I can’t really say is a more eco friendly solution but at least it’s not a poor sea snail 

4. The neck binding on K7s looked sick


----------



## zenonshandro

Latest Instagram post.


----------



## mlp187

OMFG that is sexy AF


----------



## GoldDragon

Everyone here secretly thinks that by criticizing abalone and suggesting "what everyone really wants", they will get bc rich to make their dream guitar.

Black plastic binding is a cheap look, looks horrible on maple boards, and doesn't help dark bodies stand out, which is the purpose of outlining the guitar in white or abalone.

Abalone isnt "metal" enough for some, but I think these guitars, especially the outrageous shapes, have roots in glam rock. Glam is all about spectacle and being over the top. These guitars make a splash.

How someone could want a warlock and then complain it's too flashy... Seems contradictory.


----------



## narad

gunch said:


> Im just saying as a baseline it’s a marked improvement over abalone as a purfling substance
> 
> 1. It’s black and fits thematically for a Hellraiser/LTD 1000/BCR Extreme level guitar
> 
> 2. It goes well aesthetically with the colors chosen for said production guitars
> 
> 3. Plastic use I can’t really say is a more eco friendly solution but at least it’s not a poor sea snail
> 
> 4. The neck binding on K7s looked sick



Black pearloid would be hideous as a purfling.

As binding, I'm with you. Worked well on the Alexi Blacky.


----------



## gunch

narad said:


> Black pearloid would be hideous as a purfling.
> 
> As binding, I'm with you. Worked well on the Alexi Blacky.



I looked it up after I posted that and you’re right purfling is inlaid and not binding

also LOOK AT THIS AND SAY ITS NOT SICK AF


----------



## MaxOfMetal

GoldDragon said:


> Everyone here secretly thinks that by criticizing abalone and suggesting "what everyone really wants", they will get bc rich to make their dream guitar.



BCR was rather quick to capitulate and started releasing pictures of abalone-free guitars supposedly coming soon.

The thing is, there's nothing that says you can't have both. Maybe not across every product, but just as some guitars come in different colors or with different woods, it's just an easy to change spec that the OEM will sort out.

It behooves them to make guitars with more broad appeal, especially if they're focusing so heavy in the already busy Super-Strat space.


----------



## GoldDragon

gunch said:


> I looked it up after I posted that and you’re right purfling is inlaid and not binding
> 
> also LOOK AT THIS AND SAY ITS NOT SICK AF
> 
> View attachment 80774



(from estate sale)

"A smoker owned this guitar. Comes with autographed copy of Satanism for Dummies."


----------



## GoldDragon

High Plains Drifter said:


> I dunno, man... a botched breast-job is no more fun to look at than an overabundance of laminated sea snail remnants.



Who looks at botched boob jobs?


----------



## Vostre Roy

Also, just a thought there as we'll never know for sure, but instead of starting with models with abalone binding and such, I'm trying to imagine if BC Rich has started with more classical, abalone-less guitars with the first batches, would as many people would had came and commented "Nice, but if this had abalone binding I would 100% purchase that".

In the end, I'd assume that the new owners (FFDP from what I got) love abalone and they can produce whatever they want, and there's a market for it I'm sure. But most of the fan of the old-school BC Rich models were teased with the revival promises and are waiting for models that are more in line with the 80's look, rather than the 2010's Schecters / LTD abalone galore look.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

Ever since the Ibanez JEM10 came out I’ve loved abalone purfling and pearloid binding! Especially on the same guitar !!!


----------



## zenonshandro

gunch said:


> also LOOK AT THIS AND SAY ITS NOT SICK AF
> 
> View attachment 80774



It's not sick AF.


----------



## Randy

gunch said:


> View attachment 80774



It looks like the bottom of a fish tank that hasn't been cleaned in a while.


----------



## High Plains Drifter

GoldDragon said:


> Who looks at botched boob jobs?



Hey, you don't always know what's in the fruit cocktail till you open up the can!


----------



## Seabeast2000

GoldDragon said:


> Who looks at botched boob jobs?



There is only one way to know this?


----------



## spudmunkey

narad said:


> Black pearloid would be hideous as a purfling.
> 
> As binding, I'm with you. Worked well on the Alexi Blacky.



On the other hand...


----------



## narad

Oh jeez, I haven't seen that guitar in FOREVER. I forgot that stumpy POS even existed.


----------



## spudmunkey

To be clear...I have no idea if any 'real" guitars were made like that...there's DH Gate watermarks, so as far i know, they were just shitty knock-offs that aren't based on any real guitar's finishes/options...


----------



## Cynicanal

There was a hideous one from the ESP custom shop back in the old days that I saw where the center of the V (the area surrounded by the innermost pinstripes on the above example) was gloss black, but the entire outer wings were abalone.


----------



## eggy in a bready

GoldDragon said:


> Everyone here secretly thinks that by criticizing abalone and suggesting "what everyone really wants", they will get bc rich to make their dream guitar.
> 
> Black plastic binding is a cheap look, looks horrible on maple boards, and doesn't help dark bodies stand out, which is the purpose of outlining the guitar in white or abalone.
> 
> Abalone isnt "metal" enough for some, but I think these guitars, especially the outrageous shapes, have roots in glam rock. Glam is all about spectacle and being over the top. These guitars make a splash.
> 
> How someone could want a warlock and then complain it's too flashy... Seems contradictory.


i think you're conflating "flashy" and "gaudy/tacky."

most people think abalone is a horrible aesthetic choice (for good reason)


----------



## Joel

eggy in a bready said:


> i think you're conflating "flashy" and "gaudy/tacky."
> 
> most people think abalone is a horrible aesthetic choice (for good reason)


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## zenonshandro

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 80791


Them abalone-purfled lapels, though. Tastefully done.


----------



## eggy in a bready

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 80791


these new BC Rich models are wild


----------



## spudmunkey

eggy in a bready said:


> these new BC Rich models are wild


----------



## gunch




----------



## electriceye

zenonshandro said:


> Latest Instagram post.



It’s....just NOT needed!!


----------



## fantom

zenonshandro said:


> Latest Instagram post.



Omg, did they finally put a recessed jack in a warlock? I love my warlock, but the stupid position of the cable in the jack, including L shaped male jacks made that guitar impossible to play sitting on a carpet floor. The cable would just hit the floor and mess up the jack.


----------



## Merrekof

fantom said:


> Omg, did they finally put a recessed jack in a warlock? I love my warlock, but the stupid position of the cable in the jack, including L shaped male jacks made that guitar impossible to play sitting on a carpet floor. The cable would just hit the floor and mess up the jack.


Iirc, the Warlock (and warbeast) models already had recessed jacks 10 years ago. The NJ deluxe Warbeast did, I know 'cause I owned one.


----------



## mastapimp

Merrekof said:


> Iirc, the Warlock (and warbeast) models already had recessed jacks 10 years ago. The NJ deluxe Warbeast did, I know 'cause I owned one.


I have a MK11 warlock and the jack isn't recessed...just your standard square plate. It was one of the more recent warlock models before the 5FDP guy took over.


----------



## uni777

mastapimp said:


> I have a MK11 warlock and the jack isn't recessed...just your standard square plate. It was one of the more recent warlock models before the 5FDP guy took over.


The NJ Deluxe series did have the recessed plates. As some other models from that period.
The whole MK1 - MK11 was built under different owners (Praxis i believe) in different factories and was not the same quality as when Hanser was finally making some nice models.
TBH in my opinion the extreme line is a continuation of what the NJ deluxe line was 10 years ago. Binding and purfling incl.


----------



## zenonshandro

electriceye said:


> It’s....just NOT needed!!



What's not needed?


----------



## zenonshandro

I'm not sure if this was answered or figured out before, but regarding that 12th fret inlay on some of the models being possibly a 5fdp thing... Isn't this it?


----------



## zenonshandro

Pretty close...


----------



## spudmunkey

zenonshandro said:


> What's not needed?



I'm assuming the carbon fiber binding on the images in the referenced post.

in a TTK youtube interview with the president or CEO or whoever he is, he mentioned it was just something that got ahold of, and wanted to try out. Not necessarily a part of a larger roll-out of the feature...at least not then.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

zenonshandro said:


> Pretty close...



thats the rip off Wayne static inlay


----------



## Carl Kolchak

If any of you are into neon green Ironbirds you might want to check their social media pages for the pics.


----------



## sirbuh

Carl Kolchak said:


> If any of you are into neon green Ironbirds you might want to check their social media pages for the pics.



tempting


----------



## gunch

smash or pass? (reverb)


----------



## Rosal76

gunch said:


> smash or pass? (reverb)



I like it. Although, I'm more into B.C. Richs' more extreme shapes like the Beasts' and Warlocks', I do like that Eagle.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

zenonshandro said:


> It's not sick AF.


I mean it does look like it’s sick and might leak fluids if you press too hard.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

gunch said:


> smash or pass? (reverb)



P A S S


----------



## spudmunkey

The eagle is my 2nd favorite BC shape, after mockingbird...but it's a distant second.


----------



## Cynicanal

I dig the Eagle. It's not as cool as a lot of their other shapes (I'd put the Beast, Ironbird, Mockingbird, Warlock, Bich, Draco, Speed V, or Scythe ahead of it any day), but it's still cool.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

One word:


I R O N B I R D


----------



## MaxOfMetal

gunch said:


> smash or pass? (reverb)



Pass on the ugly Kahler swap. 

Unless you're a Kahler super fan, then have at it.


----------



## gunch

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> P A S S



gunch leik eagol



MaxOfMetal said:


> Pass on the ugly Kahler swap.
> 
> Unless you're a Kahler super fan, then have at it.



I'm ambivalent toward Kahlers I'm just concerned one day that retrofit is going to just rip out of the face

Idk this just seemed cooler than geting a PRO-X and taking the Bigsby off

Kind of related Fernandes MG 80 X's are pretty accessible to me right now too (if TC Gakki is even able to ship to the USA or I'll have to pay a gorillion in duties)


----------



## Spicypickles

I would, I love the eagle shape and kahlers aren’t that big a deal, IMO


----------



## Hollowway

Spicypickles said:


> kahlers aren’t that big a deal, IMO



Knowing a guitar has a trem, only to find out it's a kahler is like a dating site telling you it's found your ideal mate, only to have your ex pop up onscreen.


----------



## Spicypickles

P*ssy’s p*ssy my friend, you once enjoyed that sweet nectar, another dip won’t hurt. Not marriage material, but you can live with it.


----------



## zappatton2

I dunno, I had a guitar with a Kahler, quite liked it, and I found it easier to restring than a Floyd. Still love Floyds of course, but I quite like the Kahler.


----------



## Cynicanal

The big downside to the Kahler is that it limits what strings you can use, unless you're willing to break out the soldering iron every string change to solder the ball-ends tighter. If your preferred strings work with it, it's great.


----------



## Spicypickles

Hmmm, never had an issue, always went with daddarios


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Whether you like Kahlers or not, that install leaves much to be desired. Function is probably decent, but if you're going to put all the work in, might as well plug it the right way. I don't get it.


----------



## Spicypickles

A damn, I missed the holes, I just looked at the guitar as a whole.


----------



## Viginez

MaxOfMetal said:


> Whether you like Kahlers or not, that install leaves much to be desired. Function is probably decent, but if you're going to put all the work in, might as well plug it the right way. I don't get it.


i hate mods like that where they just slap it on
i did a mod like that (love the kahler), but the luthier insisted to do it "the right way" and finish everyting


----------



## GoldDragon

My first guitar was an old Charvel model 3 with a Khaler. Black.

I dont remember much about it. I seem to remember that the locking nut was behind the actual nut, so you still have to pencil the slots. Tuning stability was good enough I think. I made a tape where I used the whammy bar and I don't remember it going out of tune. I dont remember much from back then. I was a teenager.

I just found this. Was the model 3 on this page.

http://www.charvelusa.com/charvel_model_series.html

Khaler Fulcrum looks like a direct FR copy. I remember I put grease on the post heads.

I think the post screw heads were beveled to a point, and there was a slot in the trem base that they fit into. Sorta the opposite of a FR.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

GoldDragon said:


> My first guitar was an old Charvel model 3 with a Khaler. Black.
> 
> I dont remember much about it. I seem to remember that the locking nut was behind the actual nut, so you still have to pencil the slots. Tuning stability was good enough I think. I made a tape where I used the whammy bar and I don't remember it going out of tune. I dont remember much from back then. I was a teenager.
> 
> I just found this. Was the model 3 on this page.
> 
> http://www.charvelusa.com/charvel_model_series.html
> 
> Khaler Fulcrum looks like a direct FR copy. I remember I put grease on the post heads.
> 
> I think the post screw heads were beveled to a point, and there was a slot in the trem base that they fit into. Sorta the opposite of a FR.




man old school charvels are a fuckin vibe dude. Honestly if I wasn't into deathmetal and pointy shapes I would probably just play Charvel exclusively.


----------



## eaeolian

gunch said:


> smash or pass? (reverb)


Man, why wreck a perfectly good Floyd guitar by converting it to THAT?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

eaeolian said:


> Man, why wreck a perfectly good Floyd guitar by converting it to THAT?


Probably because "SLAYYY0000RRRRRRRR!1`11"


----------



## gunch

eaeolian said:


> Man, why wreck a perfectly good Floyd guitar by converting it to THAT?



Yeah it's unfortunate but it piqued my interest because it wasn't black and it was a NJ series Eagle

Also fun fact: It was setup with .105's for like octave down standard


----------



## BornToLooze

GoldDragon said:


> My first guitar was an old Charvel model 3 with a Khaler. Black.
> 
> I dont remember much about it. I seem to remember that the locking nut was behind the actual nut, so you still have to pencil the slots. Tuning stability was good enough I think. I made a tape where I used the whammy bar and I don't remember it going out of tune. I dont remember much from back then. I was a teenager.
> 
> I just found this. Was the model 3 on this page.
> 
> http://www.charvelusa.com/charvel_model_series.html
> 
> Khaler Fulcrum looks like a direct FR copy. I remember I put grease on the post heads.
> 
> I think the post screw heads were beveled to a point, and there was a slot in the trem base that they fit into. Sorta the opposite of a FR.



I have a Model 2 with a nut like that


----------



## beerandbeards

Still no Chuck Tribute model reissue? I’ll check back at later date


----------



## dr_game0ver

GoldDragon said:


> My first guitar was an old Charvel model 3 with a Kahler. Black.
> 
> I dont remember much about it. I seem to remember that the locking nut was behind the actual nut, so you still have to pencil the slots. Tuning stability was good enough I think. I made a tape where I used the whammy bar and I don't remember it going out of tune. I dont remember much from back then. I was a teenager.
> 
> I just found this. Was the model 3 on this page.
> 
> http://www.charvelusa.com/charvel_model_series.html
> 
> Khaler Fulcrum looks like a direct FR copy. I remember I put grease on the post heads.
> 
> I think the post screw heads were beveled to a point, and there was a slot in the trem base that they fit into. Sorta the opposite of a FR.


I have a Model 3 as well, red it is. The Kahler is such a pain: doing the intonation using the screws under the thing, loading the strings from the back, the double edges design... Parts are still avalaible but cost a sweet penny.


----------



## jonsick

I thought long and hard about buying a current BC Rich. Obviously sight unseen given circumstances and general availability. I even almost went for it not too long ago but sadly the dude sold out before I got my brain in gear to say yes. Regrettable. 

Ultimately I think I'm going to hold out and wait for a 7 string warlock.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

jonsick said:


> I thought long and hard about buying a current BC Rich. Obviously sight unseen given circumstances and general availability. I even almost went for it not too long ago but sadly the dude sold out before I got my brain in gear to say yes. Regrettable.
> 
> Ultimately I think I'm going to hold out and wait for a 7 string warlock.


Except they'll make it a 25.5". Neo BC Rich seems to have the same attitude towards its 7-strings as Ibanez did 15 years ago.


----------



## eaeolian

Carl Kolchak said:


> Except they'll make it a 25.5". Neo BC Rich seems to have the same attitude towards its 7-strings as Ibanez did 15 years ago.



That would be a point in favor of me buying it. I prefer 25.5".


----------



## jonsick

Carl Kolchak said:


> Except they'll make it a 25.5". Neo BC Rich seems to have the same attitude towards its 7-strings as Ibanez did 15 years ago.


I much prefer 25.5" too! I had a baritone scale 7 before and I found my left hand cramping up like a mofo.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## JustinRhoads1980

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>





what is this??


----------



## bloodocean

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> what is this??


It was a vid of Herman Li going over his USA custom BC Rich. All specs, no playing.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

bloodocean said:


> It was a vid of Herman Li going over his USA custom BC Rich. All specs, no playing.



Oh I saw that. Its basically just an Ibanez with a b.c. rich headstock.


----------



## bloodocean

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Oh I saw that. Its basically just an Ibanez with a b.c. rich headstock.


Well, neck thru with the Sophia bridge anyhow.


----------



## zenonshandro

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Oh I saw that. Its basically just an Ibanez with a b.c. rich headstock.



It was definitely a superstrat...


----------



## eaeolian

bloodocean said:


> Well, neck thru with the Sophia bridge anyhow.



Wow, someone actually used one? I've been teetering on the edge of buying a Sophia a couple of times now...


----------



## bloodocean

Herman Li has an updated video with a bit of playing now


----------



## CrushingAnvil

bloodocean said:


> Herman Li has an updated video with a bit of playing now




What is this timeline lol


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Herman Li reminds me too much of 2006.


----------



## bloodocean

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Herman Li reminds me too much of 2006.


Not gonna lie, some of the latest Dragonforce albums have been pretty dope. They have mid-tempo now.


----------



## GoldDragon

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Oh I saw that. Its basically just an Ibanez with a b.c. rich headstock.



Yeah, its like he told them to build him his Ibanez signature guitar.


----------



## asopala

GoldDragon said:


> Yeah, its like he told them to build him his Ibanez signature guitar.



Hey, the guy knows what he likes. Just so happened he got it mostly right the first time, I guess. Not to mention he has something like 120 other guitars with more varied specs to play with.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

asopala said:


> Hey, the guy knows what he likes. Just so happened he got it mostly right the first time, I guess. Not to mention he has something like 120 other guitars with more varied specs to play with.



The whole point is it is sacrilege. Sure it is a custom and it is what he wants but fuck man it is bcr. Doesn't surprise me seeing that the new management wants to have products marketed towards the Ibanez and Djent crowd. Nothing wrong with that but the BCR fans are not that


----------



## Carl Kolchak

BCR makes a decent production 7-string Mockingbird/Bich/Warlock, and I'm all in. What the custom shop builds interests me not.


----------



## GoldDragon

asopala said:


> Hey, the guy knows what he likes. Just so happened he got it mostly right the first time, I guess. Not to mention he has something like 120 other guitars with more varied specs to play with.



I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with it.

However, I'm going to say it, the production egen guitars are alot more refined than that prototype. It looks like they took a body blank from a shredzilla and shaped it with a belt sander. There isn't much detail work like binding or inlays.

My opinion is that he is just using it as a bargaining chip with Ibanez. "Hey look, anyone can build me a guitar, what have you done for me lately?"


----------



## asopala

GoldDragon said:


> I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with it.
> 
> However, I'm going to say it, the production egen guitars are alot more refined than that prototype. It looks like they took a body blank from a shredzilla and shaped it with a belt sander. There isn't much detail work like binding or inlays.
> 
> My opinion is that he is just using it as a bargaining chip with Ibanez. "Hey look, anyone can build me a guitar, what have you done for me lately?"



Sorry if I implied something there, my bad.

It's worth mentioning though that Herman left Ibanez and doesn't have any stakes in the company anymore. From what I remember from one of his streams, he left to be able to play more guitar brands without being tied to any one company. Ibanez doesn't even make new egens anymore.


----------



## spudmunkey

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> The whole point is it is sacrilege. [...] new management wants to have products marketed towards the Ibanez and Djent crowd. Nothing wrong with that but the BCR fans are not that.



Are existing BCR fans enough to sustain the brand in 2020?


----------



## Carl Kolchak

spudmunkey said:


> Are existing BCR fans enough to sustain the brand in 2020?


The two things that will, imo, sustain this particular incarnation of BCR are,

1) QC

and 

2) Finding the right balance between traditionalism and innovation.


----------



## Rev2010

Carl Kolchak said:


> BCR makes a decent production 7-string Mockingbird/Bich/Warlock, and I'm all in. What the custom shop builds interests me not.



Duuude, I'm so with you on this!! I emailed them and also sent them a message on Facebook asking about the possibility and got no response. Recently just emailed them again and mentioned my prior communications that went unanswered and said if you don't reply I give up entirely on BC Rich. Thing for me though is I also need 26.5" scale as I tune down to A Standard. So.... likely not gonna happen. I know they have the Shredzilla's but for me there's zero point getting another SuperStrat especially if it's a BC Rich.


Rev.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Rev2010 said:


> Duuude, I'm so with you on this!! I emailed them and also sent them a message on Facebook asking about the possibility and got no response. Recently just emailed them again and mentioned my prior communications that went unanswered and said if you don't reply I give up entirely on BC Rich. Thing for me though is I also need 26.5" scale as I tune down to A Standard. So.... likely not gonna happen. I know they have the Shredzilla's but for me there's zero point getting another SuperStrat especially if it's a BC Rich.
> 
> 
> Rev.


BCR said on their FB page a little while ago that a 7-string Warlock was in the works. No mention of what scale length that would be. 

Unfortunately, BCR doesn't really seem to understand the sonic necessities of the extended scale market. My fear is that they'll make this 7-string Warlock with a 25.5" neck, and it'll flop, both in terms of sales and string tension.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> The whole point is it is sacrilege. Sure it is a custom and it is what he wants but fuck man it is bcr. Doesn't surprise me seeing that the new management wants to have products marketed towards the Ibanez and Djent crowd. Nothing wrong with that but the BCR fans are not that


Sorry what? How is it sacrilige? It looks like something an 80's BCR artist would play.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

smdh still no signs of a 7 string ironbird.
It's like they're too good for my money


----------



## NotDonVito

bloodocean said:


> Herman Li has an updated video with a bit of playing now



I'm much more interested in what Sam's(other dude in dforce) potential Ironbird signature will look like. Herman plays that BC Rich almost all the time nowadays, so it wouldn't surprise me at this point if they end up signing a deal.


----------



## Chokey Chicken

NotDonVito said:


> I'm much more interested in what Sam's(other dude in dforce) potential Ironbird signature will look like. Herman plays that BC Rich almost all the time nowadays, so it wouldn't surprise me at this point if they end up signing a deal.




Sam is a dweeb. I remember in a rig rundown video he left the gushing about his axe to Herman, who was super excited to do it. Perhaps an ironbird would ve cool, but Sam is a boring ol turd.


----------



## Randy

That Herman Li custom looks cheap. The neckthru with the flamed sandwich is nice but the shape looks like a Douglas Scope and the finish looks like a Legator. I guess it must play really well though?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Randy said:


> That Herman Li custom looks cheap. The neckthru with the flamed sandwich is nice but the shape looks like a Douglas Scope and the finish looks like a Legator. I guess it must play really well though?



Yeah, compared to his PRS it just seems...cheap? I think it's the finish.

Oddly enough, that was a complaint common on the purple EGEN18s too.


----------



## Randy

Yeah it's like an inch thick of wavy plastic.


----------



## spudmunkey

Randy said:


> That Herman Li custom looks cheap. The neckthru with the flamed sandwich is nice but the shape looks like a Douglas Scope and the finish looks like a Legator. I guess it must play really well though?



I would agree. The finish looks crazy rushed, combined with the opaque black burst edges...makes it look super cheap. The shape also has no character. More like a Mitchell than a BC Rich.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Carl Kolchak said:


> The two things that will, imo, sustain this particular incarnation of BCR are,
> 
> 1) QC
> 
> and
> 
> 2) Finding the right balance between traditionalism and innovation.




Well I own 2 of the new ones and I am 2 for 2 with them having subpar QC.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Well I own 2 of the new ones and I am 2 for 2 with them having subpar QC.



Did you ever wind up getting that stuff resolved? Last we spoke everything was kinda on hold.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

MaxOfMetal said:


> Did you ever wind up getting that stuff resolved? Last we spoke everything was kinda on hold.



I was compensated from both bcr and RBG in terms of that issue. Everything was handled accordingly. I am just keeping it honest with you guys that *if *you do buy one, do yourself the favor and comb it over.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I was compensated from both bcr and RBG in terms of that issue. Everything was handled accordingly. I am just keeping it honest with you guys that *if *you do buy one, do yourself the favor and comb it over.


What was wrong with your guitars?


----------



## USMarine75

I'll take this over that Herman Li...



bloodocean said:


> Herman Li has an updated video with a bit of playing now




Someone needs to post a vid with something less than 256th notes so I can hear what the guitar sounds like.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

KnightBrolaire said:


> smdh still no signs of a 7 string ironbird.
> It's like they're too good for my money


They don't seem like they have a decent enough grasp on the basics of the 7/8-string market yet. No excuse for that really. I mean, all they need do is look at what Schecter's been doing build-wise on their production stuff over the last couple of years to know what working/selling and what isn't.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Carl Kolchak said:


> What was wrong with your guitars?




I will break down for each guitar:

6 String: 2 gouges in the fretboard alongside the purfling. (most likely the machine caught onto the wood and ripped it out). Some slight tool markings on the fretboard, the inlays' black filler surrounding them has missing spots in some areas. It is not just 1-2 areas, there are more than that. Additionally on the back the hole for the grounding wire to the clamp for some reason there is *2 *holes (hehe sex joke), but I thought that was kinda like wtf and highly questionable.

7 String: The bridge volume and neck volume locations are switched on this one, there is a missing chunk of the abalone in the purfling, some tool cuts into the fretboard, more of the inlays black filler having missing spots (much worse on the 7 string), more tool markings.




Here is the picture of that missing abalone. Look real close and you will see. Seems to be that BCR's QC is lacking. I have 2 schecters that are made in the same factory and neither of them have any fretboard issues like the ones prevalent on these BCRs. My schecters are 100% clean. 

Honestly for a company touting that they are making the highest precision guitars and of top tier quality and specs, but yet delivering this is highly questionable. For a guitar that is around $400~ more than a lot of Schecter's high end shit, something that lacks in a lot of features that the cheaper schecters have, these have worse QC and you pay more. 


I feel like this is karma for my diverting from buying from Schecter. I have not once had any of these kind of issues with a guitar. Especially for this price point is unacceptable. If I decide to sell these I will be getting fucked harshly. The only issues that I have had with Schecter are slight finish issues that are typically very minor.

I will never buy one of the new BCRs again. I am 2 for 2 for having guitars that are quite honestly the highest amount I have paid for a guitar and have subpar quality. Some of the Indonesian Jacksons I have played don't even fuck up with the fretboards, just mainly finish defects and the sort. Honestly these guitars do play great and I do like the pickups, but at the end of the day I cannot lie about my experience as I feel it is my duty to give a fair warning to the consumer market to just be precautious about them and make sure to really comb them over thoroughly once you receive them and to also buy from a place that has a liberal return policy.


It really disappoints me as I put in the investment into a brand and relaunch that most people weren't invested into and in a way I did kinda get fucked. If I ever sell these guitar I will probably have to list them and most likely sell them at sub $1000 due to these issues.


As much as I love BCR and was initially in support of this relaunch, I myself will not be returning customer.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I will break down for each guitar:
> 
> 6 String: 2 gouges in the fretboard alongside the purfling. (most likely the machine caught onto the wood and ripped it out). Some slight tool markings on the fretboard, the inlays' black filler surrounding them has missing spots in some areas. It is not just 1-2 areas, there are more than that. Additionally on the back the hole for the grounding wire to the clamp for some reason there is *2 *holes (hehe sex joke), but I thought that was kinda like wtf and highly questionable.
> 
> 7 String: The bridge volume and neck volume locations are switched on this one, there is a missing chunk of the abalone in the purfling, some tool cuts into the fretboard, more of the inlays black filler having missing spots (much worse on the 7 string), more tool markings.
> 
> View attachment 81800
> 
> 
> Here is the picture of that missing abalone. Look real close and you will see. Seems to be that BCR's QC is lacking. I have 2 schecters that are made in the same factory and neither of them have any fretboard issues like the ones prevalent on these BCRs. My schecters are 100% clean.
> 
> Honestly for a company touting that they are making the highest precision guitars and of top tier quality and specs, but yet delivering this is highly questionable. For a guitar that is around $400~ more than a lot of Schecter's high end shit, something that lacks in a lot of features that the cheaper schecters have, these have worse QC and you pay more.
> 
> 
> I feel like this is karma for my diverting from buying from Schecter. I have not once had any of these kind of issues with a guitar. Especially for this price point is unacceptable. If I decide to sell these I will be getting fucked harshly. The only issues that I have had with Schecter are slight finish issues that are typically very minor.
> 
> I will never buy one of the new BCRs again. I am 2 for 2 for having guitars that are quite honestly the highest amount I have paid for a guitar and have subpar quality. Some of the Indonesian Jacksons I have played don't even fuck up with the fretboards, just mainly finish defects and the sort. Honestly these guitars do play great and I do like the pickups, but at the end of the day I cannot lie about my experience as I feel it is my duty to give a fair warning to the consumer market to just be precautious about them and make sure to really comb them over thoroughly once you receive them and to also buy from a place that has a liberal return policy.
> 
> 
> It really disappoints me as I put in the investment into a brand and relaunch that most people weren't invested into and in a way I did kinda get fucked. If I ever sell these guitar I will probably have to list them and most likely sell them at sub $1000 due to these issues.
> 
> 
> As much as I love BCR and was initially in support of this relaunch, I myself will not be returning customer.


Why didn't you just return them then for a full refund?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Carl Kolchak said:


> Why didn't you just return them then for a full refund?



I was heavily compensated for it man. Basically got the 7 string for almost free.


----------



## xzacx

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> l If I decide to sell these I will be getting fucked harshly. ... If I ever sell these guitar I will probably have to list them and most likely sell them at sub $1000 due to these issues.






JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I was heavily compensated for it man. Basically got the 7 string for almost free.



You’re bitching that a you’d have to sell a guitar you got for free for under $1k? I dunno man, it seems like you’d still be coming out ahead and more than compensated for those cosmetic issues. Doesn’t mean you weren’t disappointed in the guitars, but sure seems like they tried to take care of you.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

xzacx said:


> You’re bitching that a you’d have to sell a guitar you got for free for under $1k? I dunno man, it seems like you’d still be coming out ahead and more than compensated for those cosmetic issues. Doesn’t mean you weren’t disappointed in the guitars, but sure seems like they tried to take care of you.



The moral of the story is the next guy might not get taken care of as well.


----------



## xzacx

MaxOfMetal said:


> The moral of the story is the next guy might not get taken care of as well.



Yeah, it doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. But I also wouldn’t be complaining about having to sell a guitar for under $1k that I got for free after they took care of me like that.


----------



## trem licking

They took care of me well when i had my issue too. As long as they keep doing that, they'll be just fine. Still considering buying another, either a new model that will eventually be released or that red schec'dzilla


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, it's good they made things right, but speaking from experience, it's a huge hassle and a pain in the ass to get a guitar that isn't right, and then have to work with the company/store to rectify the situation. It sucks to see something wrong, then wonder what else could be wrong that you cannot see, and disassemble it, try to decide if you need to return it, or accept a discount. Then, if you return it you need to take time to drive to UPS, etc. I think it's great that BCR are taking care of customers, but I'd still complain if I got a subpar instrument that should have been flagged by QC. (I went through this with a non-BCR guitar recently, and it was a huge pain in the ass. And I was thisclose to buying the 'zilla8 until @trem licking got his and found some issues. Now I (we) are waiting for some changes to the production line before we jump on another one. I want a Floyd 8 so bad I can taste it, but I really just want a guitar that works right out of the box.)


----------



## trem licking

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, it's good they made things right, but speaking from experience, it's a huge hassle and a pain in the ass to get a guitar that isn't right, and then have to work with the company/store to rectify the situation. It sucks to see something wrong, then wonder what else could be wrong that you cannot see, and disassemble it, try to decide if you need to return it, or accept a discount. Then, if you return it you need to take time to drive to UPS, etc. I think it's great that BCR are taking care of customers, but I'd still complain if I got a subpar instrument that should have been flagged by QC. (I went through this with a non-BCR guitar recently, and it was a huge pain in the ass. And I was thisclose to buying the 'zilla8 until @trem licking got his and found some issues. Now I (we) are waiting for some changes to the production line before we jump on another one. I want a Floyd 8 so bad I can taste it, but I really just want a guitar that works right out of the box.)



I have had build quality issues up the arse the last few guitars i have gotten. specifically, all the 8 string floyded guitars i've received lol. its actually hilarious (actually mega frustrating), as you know these guitars are fucking rare and most of them i get have deal breaking issues. it's such a relief to have great customer service, even though it is definitely inconvenient to return the guitar and (in my case) not have another to swap out. first world problems i guess. im still trying though!


----------



## CrushingAnvil

Randy said:


> That Herman Li custom looks cheap. The neckthru with the flamed sandwich is nice but the shape looks like a Douglas Scope and the finish looks like a Legator. I guess it must play really well though?



It does. That fingerboard looks like shit. Looks like it was made in Korea. 

They either gave him good money or looks are deceiving.


----------



## asopala

CrushingAnvil said:


> It does. That fingerboard looks like shit. Looks like it was made in Korea.
> 
> They either gave him good money or looks are deceiving.



At the very least I wouldn't be surprised if he got it at a discount. He's buds with Zoltan, or at least knows him well enough to track guitar solos on his yacht. That's an interesting video.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

asopala said:


> At the very least I wouldn't be surprised if he got it at a discount. He's buds with *Zoltan*, or at least knows him well enough to track guitar solos on his yacht. That's an interesting video.


That hairdresser guy?


----------



## Hollowway

CrushingAnvil said:


> That hairdresser guy?


Hey, don’t even joke about that. You don’t mess with the Zoltan.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Hollowway said:


> Hey, don’t even joke about that. You don’t mess with the Zoltan.



Fuck Zoltan and fuck FFDP


----------



## Spicypickles

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Fuck Zoltan and fuck FFDP


----------



## spudmunkey

Definitely an unexpected artist endorsement...

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBnuqGtn1W0/?igshid=t7691crubxcu

When I think "BC Rich", "Shredzilla", abalone-bedazzled, and bright-colored burled veneered super strat with a Floyd Rose, that's definitely not what one would expect.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Am pretty much throwing in the towel on this incarnation of BCR at this point. I don't know who they're aiming at marketing-wise, but it sure as hell ain't me with Reanimator green super Strats.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Carl Kolchak said:


> Am pretty much throwing in the towel on this incarnation of BCR at this point. I don't know who they're aiming at marketing-wise, but it sure as hell ain't me with Reanimator green super Strats.



agreed. Their business model doesn't make much sense in terms of their intended audience


----------



## Spicypickles

It’s not that big a deal, IMO. Very cool to have a varied clientele.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Spicypickles said:


> It’s not that big a deal, IMO. Very cool to have a varied clientele.


Well what is BCR other than Warlocks, Biches, and Mockingbirds? Those are the iconic shapes that define the brand. Why they seem so intent on pushing these Shredzillas in an already over saturated SS market is beyond me. Also, these LSD-induced tops/paintjobs? 

Sure, I get it, this is the "new" BCR, but I sort of think they're about 40 years too late marketing to the LA hairband metal crowd.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Carl Kolchak said:


> Well what is BCR other than Warlocks, Biches, and Mockingbirds? Those are the iconic shapes that define the brand. Why they seem so intent on pushing these Shredzillas in an already over saturated SS market is beyond me. Also, these LSD-induced tops/paintjobs?
> 
> Sure, I get it, this is the "new" BCR, but I sort of think they're about 40 years too late marketing to the LA hairband metal crowd.



I just want a simple ironbird and stealth with a Floyd rose and a 25.5" scale. But seeing as how they are conducting shit now that won't happen


----------



## Carl Kolchak

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> I just want a simple ironbird and stealth with a Floyd rose and a 25.5" scale. But seeing as how they are conducting shit now that won't happen


Worst case scenario, you could just get a new Ironbird and have a Floyd retrofitted to it. Pricey, but if that's what you really want you should do it.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Carl Kolchak said:


> Worst case scenario, you could just get a new Ironbird and have a Floyd retrofitted to it. Pricey, but if that's what you really want you should do it.



nah the new ironbirds have a Floyd. But they are hideous


----------



## Carl Kolchak

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> nah the new ironbirds have a Floyd. But they are hideous


Get it repainted for a couple of hundred bucks to whatever color you want it in. Prob solved.


----------



## Spicypickles

Carl Kolchak said:


> Well what is BCR other than Warlocks, Biches, and Mockingbirds? Those are the iconic shapes that define the brand. Why they seem so intent on pushing these Shredzillas in an already over saturated SS market is beyond me. Also, these LSD-induced tops/paintjobs?
> 
> Sure, I get it, this is the "new" BCR, but I sort of think they're about 40 years too late marketing to the LA hairband metal crowd.



They are pushing what’s popular: super strats with cancer wood and high octane finishes. They don’t care about nostalgia any further than what sells. They’re a company, they need to make cheddar.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Spicypickles said:


> They are pushing what’s popular: super strats with cancer wood and high octane finishes. They don’t care about nostalgia any further than what sells. They’re a company, they need to make cheddar.


Cancer wood is an instant classic.

But in the long run the SS market isn't sustainable though, as everyone under the sun makes one. The only thing that's going to keep BCR going are those body shapes which are unique to them. Unlike Les Pauls, SGs, Vs, and SSs, there is only one source for Warlocks, Biches, and Mocking(Iron)birds. A fact BCR seems to be ignoring at their corporate peril atm.


----------



## trem licking

In a somewhat recent interview i saw with the company owner, they are doing quite well actually


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Carl Kolchak said:


> Cancer wood is an instant classic.
> 
> But in the long run the SS market isn't sustainable though, as everyone under the sun makes one. The only thing that's going to keep BCR going are those body shapes which are unique to them. Unlike Les Pauls, SGs, Vs, and SSs, there is only one source for Warlocks, Biches, and Mocking(Iron)birds. A fact BCR seems to be ignoring at their corporate peril atm.



They are making some of the classic shapes right now, it's just all you see are super Strats because _that seems to be what's selling. 
_
They've advertised some other classic shapes coming down the pike, but the whole COVID19 thing seems to have set back whatever production schedule they were shooting for.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

How DARE this company that's bringing itself back from near death try to make money on what's popular right now in order to pad their bank account to be able to produce other things! Yes I KNOW I want an Ironbird and they make one....but it's not exactly how I want it!....Yes I know they have a custom shop that will build whatever I want..BUT I DON'T WANT TO SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY!

Yes I know they make all their classic shapes and plan on doing more...BUT Y THEY DO STRAT SHAPE?!?!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> How DARE this company that's bringing itself back from near death try to make money on what's popular right now in order to pad their bank account to be able to produce other things! Yes I KNOW I want an Ironbird and they make one....but it's not exactly how I want it!....Yes I know they have a custom shop that will build whatever I want..BUT I DON'T WANT TO SPEND THAT KIND OF MONEY!
> 
> Yes I know they make all their classic shapes and plan on doing more...BUT Y THEY DO STRAT SHAPE?!?!



To be fair, it's not really BCR "bringing themselves back" it's some investors reviving an orphan brand. 

I can see what @Carl Kolchak is saying. To a lot of folks who didn't grow up in the 80's, BCR is a very different company and folks have different expectations accordingly. 

It's a good thing folks are demanding and complaining and all that. It means they want stuff. If folks weren't asking for anything the brand would fade away for like the 5th time.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> To be fair, it's not really BCR "bringing themselves back" it's some investors reviving an orphan brand.
> 
> I can see what @Carl Kolchak is saying. To a lot of folks who didn't grow up in the 80's, BCR is a very different company and folks have different expectations accordingly.
> 
> It's a good thing folks are demanding and complaining and all that. It means they want stuff. If folks weren't asking for anything the brand would fade away for like the 5th time.



The company was considered dead by the public, so this is their comeback. They pretty much bent over backwards trying to bring back old favorites that would sell plus something new to help them out financially. According to them they plan on doing pretty much all the shapes but right now they've done a massive launch that's pretty expansive.

Complaining that you didn't get your "custom guitar" at the price you want it right off the bat is just silly. That's not how business works. They've said they plan on doing all sorts of shapes in all sorts of configurations, however right now they hit the main points and it's to be expected that further rollouts depend on people buying what they've got out now.

If they can prove to the public the BCR now means quality guitars and that they're listening to their customer base then it gives them the longevity to do more down the road. It's a process.

Not to mention they've always had a strat style guitar in the ranks in some form or another because the brand pretty much covers everything. It makes sense for them to show they can do wild shapes and more generic shit to cover a wide variety of players. 

Like with any company..don't like what they have this year? Wait till next year to see what that lineup is. They've got 50 years of shapes, configurations, and styles..it may take some time for them to get to the specific shape you want.


----------



## MaxOfMetal




----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> View attachment 82062


----------



## Carl Kolchak

If SSs with radiation sickness are what's selling then why would BCR want to make anything else? The idea that today's SS sales will somehow be funding the future releases of other shapes and configurations simply doesn't make good business sense then.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

....because a brand shouldn't showcase it's ability to do several models in a variety of options to reach a broad range of players?


----------



## Carl Kolchak

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> ....because a brand shouldn't showcase it's ability to do several models in a variety of options to reach a broad range of players?


Which BCR isn't doing.


----------



## BeyonThe7thSeal

I just got this bad boy that I’m going to modify by putting in some new pickups and solder all new wiring for it and put some shielding tape in the body cavities. I was thinking of disabling and filling the first pot by the bridge and wiring it for just a volume knob. Then I was thinking of sanding it down and touting out the body to fit a Floyd Rose on it, change the pickups (not too sure which ones yet) and then sealing the wood and having a friend airbrush a graphic on it. My idea was the scene from Heavy Metal where the Loc nar is glowing and the young girl looks terrified. Just something over the top.


----------



## electriceye

Carl Kolchak said:


> Well what is BCR other than Warlocks, Biches, and Mockingbirds? Those are the iconic shapes that define the brand. Why they seem so intent on pushing these Shredzillas in an already over saturated SS market is beyond me. Also, these LSD-induced tops/paintjobs?
> 
> Sure, I get it, this is the "new" BCR, but I sort of think they're about 40 years too late marketing to the LA hairband metal crowd.



I’m guessing you might be too young to remember the 80s. The ST-III and Gunslingers were some of *the* most popular guitars made. I have one of each, still, with one being mine since it left the factory in LA in late 86. 

The real problem is, as I think I said much earlier in this thread, is that BCR missed the boat on the SS resurgence over the past ten years. That let Charvel, Jackson and others eat their lunch. All BCR had to do was reissue those two models with IDENTICAL specs, colors and graphics, down to the much-loved Gunslinger neck profile, made in US and would have made a killing. Instead, they gave the market Korean SHIT., which seems to be the plan regardless. 

I do agree those 4 models you mentioned are the core. Sadly, they haven’t even done those right for, at least, ten years. There were some flashes with the Czech-made series a few years back, but they couldn’t even get the 40th Anniversary US series right. Granted, that was previous ownership, but it seems the brand is cursed. The brand hasn’t been the same since Bernie died. Now, it’s simply a name.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

I just got a hold of a 2012 mockingbird st and it's amazing. Threw an X2N/Air norton set in it yesterday and it punches way above it's price point. I prefer it over a lot of Les Pauls I've played and it was a hell of a lot cheaper even with the pickup swap. 

Way cheaper than the new Legacy stuff and probably plays just as well without the hit or miss QC. I was thinking of trading for a stealth a while back but this thread kinda convinced me not too, plus they're all hard tail. 

If they want my business they can totally make a stealth 7 with a floyd again and I'd get it right away.


----------



## exo

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I just got a hold of a 2012 mockingbird st and it's amazing. Threw an X2N/Air norton set in it yesterday and it punches way above it's price point. I prefer it over a lot of Les Pauls I've played and it was a hell of a lot cheaper even with the pickup swap.
> 
> Way cheaper than the new Legacy stuff and probably plays just as well without the hit or miss QC. I was thinking of trading for a stealth a while back but this thread kinda convinced me not too, plus they're all hard tail.
> 
> If they want my business they can totally make a stealth 7 with a floyd again and I'd get it right away.




A LOT of the stuff from the generation IMMEDIATELY before the previous relaunch of a few years ago (the one where they relaunched with the whole “Mk1/3/5/7” type of identifiers) is REALLY solid. Just unloaded my MockST from that era a few months back to make room for other gear, still own a Warlock Plus FR and procured one of the purple quilt top 7 string Jr V’s a few months ago that I STILL need to take some NGD pics for. All 3 of them compare very favorably to the 1000 series LTD stuff I’ve owned.....


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

exo said:


> A LOT of the stuff from the generation IMMEDIATELY before the previous relaunch of a few years ago (the one where they relaunched with the whole “Mk1/3/5/7” type of identifiers) is REALLY solid. Just unloaded my MockST from that era a few months back to make room for other gear, still own a Warlock Plus FR and procured one of the purple quilt top 7 string Jr V’s a few months ago that I STILL need to take some NGD pics for. All 3 of them compare very favorably to the 1000 series LTD stuff I’ve owned.....



I'd honestly love to snag one of those old 7s when they made a shit ton of them, I've always wanted a 7 string with a floyd or Kahler but there's never any around.


----------



## maliciousteve

Sad thing is they released this and then stopped making them






I had one and it was fantastic. I remember them being quite popular at the time and there was hope BC Rich was making a come back.

It seems they get so far then can't help but stumble over themselves.


----------



## Merrekof

Definetely agree, once in the upper price range I think there were some real gems in the BC Rich catalog back then. I owned a few and the were all great tbh. 

This relaunch is totally not what I expected. In this day and age they really need more pointy 7 and 8 strings instead of more superstrats in a already saturated superstrat market.


----------



## maliciousteve

Bc Rich asked on their FB page what people would like to see from them. I posted these two. These would be perfect for the 7 string market. An Ironbird 7 string, an 8 Eagle maybe?


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I'll never understand how people think the Ignitor looks great but will shit on other BCR shapes.

Anyways we'd probably see a 6 string version before we see a 7 or 8. Bigger 6 string market.


----------



## Merrekof

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I'll never understand how people think the Ignitor looks great but will shit on other BCR shapes.
> 
> Anyways we'd probably see a 6 string version before we see a 7 or 8. Bigger 6 string market.


That's just how people are.. I really like the Ignitor (preferrably 7), the Beast bass (better in proportion as supposed to guitar), the Warlock, Mockingbird, Bich, Warbeast, Virgin but not the Virgo. I dislike the Widow and Dagger. These shapes are so extreme that will easily fall into the gorgeous/hideous categories instead of the moderate meh categories.
When I started playing guitar in the early 2000's, BCR was by far the coolest brand out there with all these extreme shapes.


----------



## metaljohn

Oh man. If they made a 7 string Ignitor with a fixed bridge and a 27 or 28 inch scale, I'd be all over that. I'd kill to have a Wave again, too.



maliciousteve said:


> Bc Rich asked on their FB page what people would like to see from them. I posted these two. These would be perfect for the 7 string market. An Ironbird 7 string, an 8 Eagle maybe?


----------



## Merrekof

metaljohn said:


> Oh man. If they made a 7 string Ignitor with a fixed bridge and a 27 or 28 inch scale, I'd be all over that. I'd kill to have a Wave again, too.


Ow yeah, forgot about the Wave! IIRC, they were only available as Tripp Eisens sig back in the day.


----------



## metaljohn

Merrekof said:


> Ow yeah, forgot about the Wave! IIRC, they were only available as Tripp Eisens sig back in the day.


I actually had an 82/83 neckthru Japanese import one before they were branded as the NJ series. I sold it a few years ago after I bought an 85 USA Warlock neckthru. I wish I still had both.


----------



## spudmunkey




----------



## High Plains Drifter

^^^ Is it supposed to be splotchy like that? Regardless... that's sick-sexy right there. One please!


----------



## spudmunkey

High Plains Drifter said:


> ^^^ Is it supposed to be splotchy like that? Regardless... that's sick-sexy right there. One please!



It's a pearl/metallic. I don't know why, but they sometimes photograph like that, especially reds which cameras/displays have a hard time capturing accurately.

This is even a studio shot, and it's also a. It blotchy. It's a Suhr.


----------



## manu80

guitars are arriving at Thomann. Can't believe the prices.....1700 euros for the ironbird ? ok but no thanks
https://www.thomann.de/fr/search_dir.html?sw=bc rich&pg=1&ls=25


----------



## Edika

The Ironbird extremes where quite expensive but I don't remember the first batch being that expensive. I think the few Ironbirds that were sold in the UK where around the £1400 mark which with currency conversion would be about €1550? Still expensive but not €1700 expensive. And what is the deal with the price of those cases? €398 for what seems a multiply case? What are they huffing at BC Rich and Thomann?

Anyway this is used Jackson USA and ESP money. Hell even ESP E-II new money in some cases.

EDIT: I'm curious to see the single hum Irobird prices as they're supposed to be cheaper with less bells and whistles.


----------



## manu80

Im just afraid about the prices going up then for mex jap or usa guitar....


----------



## Merrekof

manu80 said:


> Im just afraid about the prices going up then for mex jap or usa guitar....


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## manu80

Fender already did
Prices on broderick usa took 2000 euros in 2/3 yrs...
import jackson are between 1300/1990 euros range...


----------



## possumkiller

I like the Ironbird shape and Korean guitars are really good. I just don't know if my conscience could handle giving BCR that much money now that I know who the new owners are. What if they use those profits to get more tattoos and energy drinks and yellow snake flags and make more bad music?


----------



## manu80

It’s a bit cocky to come back on the market with such prices
Still it’s better than 400 euros plywood guitars for sure but a range in between 800/1200 euros would have been maybe better, to start and then do a prestige line maybe once quality/price and good reviews are in.


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Still…...No Eagle......


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Honestly for the price they are charging for these guitars they simply aren't worth it when compared to their competitors. Now I am talking USD prices here but $1600 for a Shredzilla compared to a Schecter SLS Elite C-1 FR that is $1259, keep in mind both are made by WMI yet the schecter has stainless steel frets, more pieces in the multi laminate neck, and a better trem (1500 series vs 1000) and a thumb wheel truss rod adjustment and it is roughly $350 cheaper compared to the Shredzilla which doesn't have those specs. Personally I can't see why the prices are set this high. I doubt the costs are that much more expensive to produce a BC (could be wrong), but I personally think they are trying to squeeze further margins from their guitars.


----------



## Aliascent

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Honestly for the price they are charging for these guitars they simply aren't worth it when compared to their competitors. Now I am talking USD prices here but $1600 for a Shredzilla compared to a Schecter SLS Elite C-1 FR that is $1259, keep in mind both are made by WMI yet the schecter has stainless steel frets, more pieces in the multi laminate neck, and a better trem (1500 series vs 1000) and a thumb wheel truss rod adjustment and it is roughly $350 cheaper compared to the Shredzilla which doesn't have those specs. Personally I can't see why the prices are set this high. I doubt the costs are that much more expensive to produce a BC (could be wrong), but I personally think they are trying to squeeze further margins from their guitars.



I doubt that Bc Rich has the same volume as Schecter does, so this may explain that.
For what it's worth, I've seen Schecter gain in popularity in the last decade, to the point I can find them in small stores. I don't think they're as present as Ibanez, but still.


----------



## Viginez

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Honestly for the price they are charging for these guitars they simply aren't worth it when compared to their competitors. Now I am talking USD prices here but $1600 for a Shredzilla compared to a Schecter SLS Elite C-1 FR that is $1259, keep in mind both are made by WMI yet the schecter has stainless steel frets, more pieces in the multi laminate neck, and a better trem (1500 series vs 1000) and a thumb wheel truss rod adjustment and it is roughly $350 cheaper compared to the Shredzilla which doesn't have those specs. Personally I can't see why the prices are set this high. I doubt the costs are that much more expensive to produce a BC (could be wrong), but I personally think they are trying to squeeze further margins from their guitars.


maybe some people just like to have a bc rich and don't care about schecters


----------



## Merrekof

Viginez said:


> maybe some people just like to have a bc rich and don't care about schecters


^This!
They are great value guitars imo but Schecter never made a model wich made me think "damn, I want one!"

Also, as stated before, there could be a new price increase coming for Schecter as well?
Bear in mind that at some point in the future, Korean made guitars might have the same (or almost) price tag as Japanese made guitars.


----------



## Edika

I understand that prices will go up for guitars and it makes sense with rising manufacturing costs. The problem is thye try to keep the prices the same for as long as possible and then there's a huge price increase all of a sudden. I think the Jackson US especially has to do to going to the Custom select model which I don't think was a particularly smart move. I mean having all US guitars being built by the custom shop is mind boggling as it raises the cost of the instrument and I don't see any improvement in manufacturing of the guitars unless someone that has a custom select and a production USA can comment on that.

However I'd prefer a more incremental raise in price per year.

EDIT: The NJ deluxe series that had really great specs and where good guitars for the money were about 800-900 Euros when they were out in 2010, if I remember correctly. If the less fancy BC Rich line is about the 1000-1100 mark it's not unreasonable.


----------



## Merrekof

Edika said:


> I think the Jackson US especially has to do to going to the Custom select model which I don't think was a particularly smart move.


Okay so no more USA made production models?



Edika said:


> The NJ deluxe series that had really great specs and where good guitars for the money were about 800-900 Euros when they were out in 2010, if I remember correctly. If the less fancy BC Rich line is about the 1000-1100 mark it's not unreasonable.


Indeed, I had an NJ deluxe warbeast. IIRC it was around 700€. Prices for a similar model have doubled though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> Okay so no more USA made production models?



Right now, the closest thing to production that Jackson USA has are batches of fixed spec artist signature models. 

Everything else are "Select" which are semi-customs. 

Retailers can still order plain black SL1s, but that's just because they're boring, they're still Selects.


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Aliascent said:


> I doubt that Bc Rich has the same volume as Schecter does, so this may explain that.
> For what it's worth, I've seen Schecter gain in popularity in the last decade, to the point I can find them in small stores. I don't think they're as present as Ibanez, but still.



I can see that totally being a valid point. With economies of scale applied, with schecter making mass amounts of guitars I am sure their costs are a lot less compared to B.C. Rich.



Viginez said:


> maybe some people just like to have a bc rich and don't care about schecters



Yea that's why I got it since I wanted a B.C. Rich. And guess what mine has flaws on it QC wise that none of my schecters have. I am bringing up a valid point when it comes to pricing, but I don't think that got through to you.


----------



## Edika

Merrekof said:


> Indeed, I had an NJ deluxe warbeast. IIRC it was around 700€. Prices for a similar model have doubled though.



The prices went to 700€ about in the end and depended on the shop. The JrV I was interested in, initially was at 900€ but at the end you could find them at 750€. I got mine with a case from the US new for about 750€.

The problem is that my salary hasn't doubled these last few years we've seen these increases lol. Again I understand the rising costs of businesses but they also have to account for what consumers can afford. If they're targeting the mid tier affordable category and prices start to close the gap with high level instruments no amount of bling is going to persuade me to buy a guitar like that new.

I'm waiting on their less flashy to see where they stand price wise. I haven't given up on the one hum Ironbirds as they look awesome but I'm waiting to see if they're worth the price.

@JustinRhoads1980 did you get a case with the Shredzillas or just the guitar?


----------



## JustinRhoads1980

Edika said:


> The prices went to 700€ about in the end and depended on the shop. The JrV I was interested in, initially was at 900€ but at the end you could find them at 750€. I got mine with a case from the US new for about 750€.
> 
> The problem is that my salary hasn't doubled these last few years we've seen these increases lol. Again I understand the rising costs of businesses but they also have to account for what consumers can afford. If they're targeting the mid tier affordable category and prices start to close the gap with high level instruments no amount of bling is going to persuade me to buy a guitar like that new.
> 
> I'm waiting on their less flashy to see where they stand price wise. I haven't given up on the one hum Ironbirds as they look awesome but I'm waiting to see if they're worth the price.
> 
> @JustinRhoads1980 did you get a case with the Shredzillas or just the guitar?



Just the guitar. No case or gig bag. No additional goodies were provided


----------



## Edika

JustinRhoads1980 said:


> Just the guitar. No case or gig bag. No additional goodies were provided



Damn for what these are going for a case would be nice! What you have to spend two grand now to get a guitar with a case for crying out loud?


----------



## mbardu

Edika said:


> I understand that prices will go up for guitars and it makes sense with rising manufacturing costs. The problem is thye try to keep the prices the same for as long as possible and then there's a huge price increase all of a sudden. I think the Jackson US especially has to do to going to the Custom select model which I don't think was a particularly smart move. I mean having all US guitars being built by the custom shop is mind boggling as it raises the cost of the instrument and I don't see any improvement in manufacturing of the guitars unless someone that has a custom select and a production USA can comment on that.
> 
> However I'd prefer a more incremental raise in price per year.
> 
> EDIT: The NJ deluxe series that had really great specs and where good guitars for the money were about 800-900 Euros when they were out in 2010, if I remember correctly. If the less fancy BC Rich line is about the 1000-1100 mark it's not unreasonable.



I think you have it a_ little _bit backwards.

Going the "Custom Select" route does not mean Jackson _had_ to increase their prices because they had increased costs. 
They're still building pretty much the same guitar and calling them "custom" does not increase the price it costs them to manufacture. 
It's actually a better route _for them_ as they can now have production track demand more closely, and they _can _charge way more because they're now calling it "custom".

But like everything else, the only reason they are more expensive is because people are willing to pay that much, not because of an underlying cost.

Anyway...back to BC Rich...


----------



## Merrekof

Edika said:


> Damn for what these are going for a case would be nice! What you have to spend two grand now to get a guitar with a case for crying out loud?


Actually, yes. There are guitar + case bundles on Thomann and they charge you 2k for that.


----------



## Edika

mbardu said:


> I think you have it a_ little _bit backwards.
> 
> Going the "Custom Select" route does not mean Jackson _had_ to increase their prices because they had increased costs.
> They're still building pretty much the same guitar and calling them "custom" does not increase the price it costs them to manufacture.
> It's actually a better route _for them_ as they can now have production track demand more closely, and they _can _charge way more because they're now calling it "custom".
> 
> But like everything else, the only reason they are more expensive is because people are willing to pay that much, not because of an underlying cost.
> 
> Anyway...back to BC Rich...



I would think that if you had a small team of people building the guitars that also handle the more custom stuff instead of a manufacturing site in the US with a stremlined process would cost more to manufacture. That was my question though if the guitar is better manufactured than what was coming from a more uniform production guitar before the move that seems it's not. If the amount the custom shop luthiers/workers are paid is higher and they produce less guitars than what a factory would produce then from a logistics point of view it makes sense they're more expensive. It doesn't make much sense from a consumer point of view if you're paying about a grand more for what was essentially the same black soloist you could get a few years back quality wise.

And yes back to BC Rich, sorry for the derail.



Merrekof said:


> Actually, yes. There are guitar + case bundles on Thomann and they charge you 2k for that.



That is ridiculous though. I get that fancy specs cost more but come on it makes it harder and harder to justify buing any of the mid tier instruments that have shot up prices up to the higher tier instruments. If I had 2K to buy a new guitar it would certainly be ESP, a decked out Prestige or a nice Gibson (yes a Gibson lol). I mean the Prestige line at the 2K mark has even all the cool trendy things like ss frets, Fishamans or Bareknuckles, fancy colours etc etc and come with a great case.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Edika said:


> I would think that if you had a small team of people building the guitars that also handle the more custom stuff instead of a manufacturing site in the US with a stremlined process would cost more to manufacture. That was my question though if the guitar is better manufactured than what was coming from a more uniform production guitar before the move that seems it's not. If the amount the custom shop luthiers/workers are paid is higher and they produce less guitars than what a factory would produce then from a logistics point of view it makes sense they're more expensive. It doesn't make much sense from a consumer point of view if you're paying about a grand more for what was essentially the same black soloist you could get a few years back quality wise.



Just to to clarify, the Selects are made in the same place that the "standard" models were, Jackson only has one USA facility. They just switched operation from being batch based to doing semi-customs, which is why output has diminished significantly. 

You're right, it is a worse deal if you wanted a black, classic spec'd SL1 or DK1, but it's a better deal if you wanted a more basic custom for 25% to 50% less than before. They used to be faster too, but the shop has slipped behind significantly with the amount of orders they've received.


----------



## Edika

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just to to clarify, the Selects are made in the same place that the "standard" models were, Jackson only has one USA facility. They just switched operation from being batch based to doing semi-customs, which is why output has diminished significantly.
> 
> You're right, it is a worse deal if you wanted a black, classic spec'd SL1 or DK1, but it's a better deal if you wanted a more basic custom for 25% to 50% less than before. They used to be faster too, but the shop has slipped behind significantly with the amount of orders they've received.



I had the impression that the custom shop was making now the custom select semi-customs and the USA facility was phased out. That is why the custom shop was swamped now and had to go to master custom build to have something more customizable and quite more expensive.

It's good to know but if I remember correctly the models with transparent colours and flame tops (veneers) weren't more expensive than the regular black or white models. Maybe a couple of hundred more expensive. Maybe there are other specs that as you say make better financial sense than the previous model as not going full custom for specific specs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Edika said:


> I had the impression that the custom shop was making now the custom select semi-customs and the USA facility was phased out. That is why the custom shop was swamped now and had to go to master custom build to have something more customizable and quite more expensive.
> 
> It's good to know but if I remember correctly the models with transparent colours and flame tops (veneers) weren't more expensive than the regular black or white models. Maybe a couple of hundred more expensive. Maybe there are other specs that as you say make better financial sense than the previous model as not going full custom for specific specs.



Under Fender the Custom Shop and USA production facilities are one and the same. It's one annex of a building. 

It was always the guys who did the "regular" USA models would work on the more basic custom labeled ones, while the "Masterbuilders" would handle artist guitars and more special/unique builds more hands on.

They're just freeing up the non-Master team to work exclusively on Selects. 

The problem was, while stock models were fairly quick to get out, being built in batches, they weren't selling as well and the margins weren't great. Meanwhile, the custom shop was inundated with fairly basic orders so the decision was made to go to the Select setup.

The Masterbuilt spot issues of late have a lot to do with how many more artists Jackson has taken on, while thier group of builders have been working on a lot of personal projects and exhibition models.


----------



## Edika

Ok that makes more sense, thanks Max!


----------



## jonsick

Carl Kolchak said:


> BCR said on their FB page a little while ago that a 7-string Warlock was in the works. No mention of what scale length that would be.
> 
> Unfortunately, BCR doesn't really seem to understand the sonic necessities of the extended scale market. My fear is that they'll make this 7-string Warlock with a 25.5" neck, and it'll flop, both in terms of sales and string tension.


Ironically, I really hope there is a 25.5" incarnation of their 7 string. Personally I don't do baritone scale lengths but I appreciate others do.

For instance, that's why I buy ESP for my 7 strings instead of Schecter and the like.


----------



## Rosal76

jonsick said:


> Ironically, I really hope there is a 25.5" incarnation of their 7 string.



Something like this would be pretty cool. Use large and/or small diamond inlays, though. * The model below is a alternate version of the Kerry King Signature without the tribal graphics that was sold by The Music Farm many years ago.


----------



## asopala

Rosal76 said:


> Something like this would be pretty cool. Use large and/or small diamond inlays, though. * The model below is a alternate version of the Kerry King Signature without the tribal graphics that was sold by The Music Farm many years ago.



I remember that one. Actually considered getting it at the time. Glad I didn't, because I ended up selling all my BC Rich's from that era. Neck wasn't for me, and the Warlock's neck dive became unbearable. Which sucks, cause I love the shape, even today. Surprisingly comfy to play sitting down.


----------



## Rosal76

asopala said:


> I remember that one.



It sucked bad for me because when they released it, I wasn't playing 7 string guitars at the time. Warlocks are my favorite B.C. Rich shape, I love the Beast headstock, I love flame maple tops and I always wanted a guitar with a Kahler tremolo. But I didn't play 7 strings at the time so it would be useless to me. But then I started playing 7 strings in 2013ish. Man, that is my worst missed opportunity to buy a guitar.


----------



## Merrekof

Rosal76 said:


> It sucked bad for me because when they released it, I wasn't playing 7 string guitars at the time. Warlocks are my favorite B.C. Rich shape, I love the Beast headstock, I love flame maple tops and I always wanted a guitar with a Kahler tremolo. But I didn't play 7 strings at the time so it would be useless to me. But then I started playing 7 strings in 2013ish. Man, that is my worst missed opportunity to buy a guitar.


Personally I don't care for a Kahler. But a Warlock 7 string with a Beast headstock is one of my fav BC Rich models


----------



## Andromalia

I'm not sure BC Rich has the brand recognition to sell Indo guitars at 1700€.


----------



## uni777

Rosal76 said:


> It sucked bad for me because when they released it, I wasn't playing 7 string guitars at the time. Warlocks are my favorite B.C. Rich shape, I love the Beast headstock, I love flame maple tops and I always wanted a guitar with a Kahler tremolo. But I didn't play 7 strings at the time so it would be useless to me. But then I started playing 7 strings in 2013ish. Man, that is my worst missed opportunity to buy a guitar.



I've got one of those. As a matter of fact it is out for a fret level at the moment. The Neck on it is very nice. A bit beefier than a Ibby but for me very comfertable. It is a very heavy guitar though. For a Chinese built guitar very nice. But it was not a cheap one back then.

The 7string mock i've talked about a few pages back had a way flatter neck profile. I ended up selling that one as the neck shape was very hurtfull with my hand/wrist issues. The Warlock's profile is not as thick as the old schecter profiles but has a more comfy mass for me.


----------



## Merrekof

uni777 said:


> I've got one of those. As a matter of fact it is out for a fret level at the moment. The Neck on it is very nice. A bit beefier than a Ibby but for me very comfertable. It is a very heavy guitar though. For a Chinese built guitar very nice. But it was not a cheap one back then.
> 
> The 7string mock i've talked about a few pages back had a way flatter neck profile. I ended up selling that one as the neck shape was very hurtfull with my hand/wrist issues. The Warlock's profile is not as thick as the old schecter profiles but has a more comfy mass for me.


Were these Chinese-made?? I was under the impression these were Korean.


----------



## uni777

Merrekof said:


> Were these Chinese-made?? I was under the impression these were Korean.


Mine says made in china.. I have a made in china JRV NT, which is just as nice. Seems to me the same factory as the finish looks the same.
As a testament on how i feel about them: i also recently sold my NJ JRV deluxe (basicly the same looks as the new Extreme series) as i like the Chinese one better. (i did upgrate the floyd though. But the feel of the neck/board just felt better. The ebony looks better too.

TBH, i always assumed it was Korean until i eventually saw it on the back of the headstock while cleaning the neck. I never really noticed it before.


----------



## uni777

Do not have a pic of the back of the headstock atm.


----------



## Rosal76

uni777 said:


> Do not have a pic of the back of the headstock atm.



Man, that guitar is freaking awesome. I would type more about how much I like it and drool at the mouth but I have to stop and kick myself hard for not buying one.


----------



## uni777

Rosal76 said:


> Man, that guitar is freaking awesome. I would type more about how much I like it and drool at the mouth but I have to stop and kick myself hard for not buying one.


Normally i am not a fan of graphics, espc. the KFK ones but i do not mind them that much in this colorsceme.
Are they that rare secondhand in the US?


----------



## Rosal76

uni777 said:


> Are they that rare secondhand in the US?



They weren't too hard to find 2 or 3 years later after they were released but they are now. I saw one on Reverb for only $500 but it freaking sold. And they listed it in Excellent condition. Whoever bought it hit a jack pot with that price because when I do see a used one, the seller normally wants more than what the guitar originally cost when they were released.

I believe the 6 string version (flame maple top version, not the red one) without the tribal graphics is even more rare because I have never seen anyone who owned one and or have seen one on the used market.


----------



## Rosal76

Here's a picture of the Kerry King, 6 string version without the tribal graphics. I believe this guitar is the rarest of the import KK guitars as it was a limited edition model (along with the 7 string version without the tribal graphics) from The Music Farm.


----------



## uni777

I remember a story that they were supposed to have the graphics but due to a mistake they didn't, And were thus sold as a limited batch. Do not know if it is true though.


----------



## uni777

Rosal76 said:


> They weren't too hard to find 2 or 3 years later after they were released but they are now. I saw one on Reverb for only $500 but it freaking sold. And they listed it in Excellent condition. Whoever bought it hit a jack pot with that price because when I do see a used one, the seller normally wants more than what the guitar originally cost when they were released.


I think they were 1200 euros when they initially came out. US prices were probably lower. I have seen only one other in the hands of a Dutch player so far. I doubt there were made a lot of them.


----------



## Rosal76

uni777 said:


> I remember a story that they were supposed to have the graphics but due to a mistake they didn't, And were thus sold as a limited batch. Do not know if it is true though.



Well, when The Music Farm store released the non tribal graphic versions, both the 6 and 7, they put a message on their online store stating that there was demand for those guitars without the tribal graphics. Would be customers liked everything on the KK guitars except the tribal graphics. At the time, The Music Farm had a lot of leverage from B.C. Rich because they (The Music Farm) sold a lot of U.S. custom shop models and imports. That said, B.C. Rich didn't have any problem making/giving them a limited batch of 6 and 7, KK non tribal graphic guitars because The Music Farm was already a number 1 dealer for B.C. Rich guitars. It worked. The Music Farm got the guitars and they sold. And I f__king missed out!!! LOL.


----------



## uni777

It sucks you missed out on something you really wanted. I got mine by chance so i feel kinda guilty now. It is a nice guitar, though a bit of a monster due to its size and weight.


----------



## Korneo

I actually buy a Kerry King 7 strings late June with the tribal and the coffin case.
I always wanted this one and an Usa Mick 7 and whe nI see it in the pawn shop, I try it and felt in love with it immediatly.

It weight a tons but the sound is absolutely fantastic and made me want more all maple guitar.
It's tight AF, the attack is lightning fast and the midrange as so much roar, I love it ! I've kept the kahler in locking position so I can't tell you more but it's doesn't bother me for now.

I'm not sure to keep it or trade it but I like it for now.


----------



## Korneo

I actually buy a Kerry King 7 strings


uni777 said:


> Mine says made in china.. I have a made in china JRV NT, which is just as nice. Seems to me the same factory as the finish looks the same.
> As a testament on how i feel about them: i also recently sold my NJ JRV deluxe (basicly the same looks as the new Extreme series) as i like the Chinese one better. (i did upgrate the floyd though. But the feel of the neck/board just felt better. The ebony looks better too.
> 
> TBH, i always assumed it was Korean until i eventually saw it on the back of the headstock while cleaning the neck. I never really noticed it before.


I just see on mine and yep, Made in China.


----------



## Dyster

they look so sick without those gaudy tribals holy sh.. i dont think ive even seen a 7 string warlock in my country.
my mick thomson sig is probably made in china but it actually doesnt say anywhere on it


----------



## pastanator

Not 100% sure but I saw a couple posts in the BC Rich Junkies FB group suggesting Juniors involved, in which case fuck em.


----------



## Randy

uni777 said:


> Do not have a pic of the back of the headstock atm.
> View attachment 84051
> View attachment 84052
> View attachment 84053
> View attachment 84054
> View attachment 84055



I'm not a flames guy (who is, besides KK?) but this would've looked gnarly with translucent flames instead.


----------



## twguitar

pastanator said:


> Not 100% sure but I saw a couple posts in the BC Rich Junkies FB group suggesting Juniors involved, in which case fuck em.


BCR has nothing to do with the Rico’s anymore, and never will. 

The junkies are a bunch of idiots, currently trying to launch a new brand with Jr.... that’s going to go well


----------



## Vyn

pastanator said:


> Not 100% sure but I saw a couple posts in the BC Rich Junkies FB group suggesting Juniors involved, in which case fuck em.



Welp. Hard nope.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

twguitar said:


> BCR has nothing to do with the Rico’s anymore, and never will.
> 
> The junkies are a bunch of idiots, currently trying to launch a new brand with Jr.... that’s going to go well


Well it might be pretty funny if all the guys he ripped off started demanding he make them the guitars they'd already paid for.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Tf would they even make, half the stuff I see hyped up on there I think is horrible and wouldn't touch with a stick. Blocky neck joints, wonky floating trems, questionable woods, shapes that discourage me even. Jr's stuff doesn't interest me in the slightest either so I don't even know who had that idea or most importantly WHY


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

pastanator said:


> Not 100% sure but I saw a couple posts in the BC Rich Junkies FB group suggesting Juniors involved, in which case fuck em.





twguitar said:


> BCR has nothing to do with the Rico’s anymore, and never will.
> 
> The junkies are a bunch of idiots, currently trying to launch a new brand with Jr.... that’s going to go well



This isn't the first time they say that, either. I think they said the same thing when the SBMM guy owned BCR, too.

Do they desperately want BRJ back in the fold?


----------



## Vyn

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Do they desperately want BRJ back in the fold?



You don't have to look very far to find people who will still defend BRJ and think he should make guitars gain. Just go on to any Pointy Guitar/BC Rich Facebook group and within half a minute of scrolling you'll find someone gushing about a Vixen and wishing BRJ would make more.


----------



## Hollowway

Carl Kolchak said:


> Well it might be pretty funny if all the guys he ripped off started demanding he make them the guitars they'd already paid for.


I sure as hell will. If he gets back into the business he'd better prepare to start blocking posts and phone numbers. Honestly, if he had to be admitted to the hospital for depression from the fiasco he caused, I would think for mental health reasons he should stay far away from this business. It's going to just open old wounds if he gets back in the game.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Hollowway said:


> It's going to just open old wounds if he gets back in the game.



Lol. Or maybe some new ones?


----------



## Andromalia

Hollowway said:


> It's going to just open old wounds if he gets back in the game.



From what I gathered, he ran with the money unscathed, with a carefully crafted scheme that worked. What old wounds ?


----------



## Edika

Andromalia said:


> From what I gathered, he ran with the money unscathed, with a carefully crafted scheme that worked. What old wounds ?



Not sure how carefully crafted it was but I think that when he figured out there was no way he could honor the orders and have a profit, especially with the Mexican shop not being able to provide the quality required for that amount orders, he saw that he can run off with the money with minimal repercussions. 
Not trying to defend him I just think he dug himself a really deep hole and instead of taking responsibility for his poor choices he decided to just fuck everyone over. He's still a shitbag but not a criminal mastermind!


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Edika said:


> Not sure how carefully crafted it was but I think that when he figured out there was no way he could honor the orders and have a profit, especially with the Mexican shop not being able to provide the quality required for that amount orders, he saw that he can run off with the money with minimal repercussions.
> Not trying to defend him I just think he dug himself a really deep hole and instead of taking responsibility for his poor choices he decided to just fuck everyone over. He's still a shitbag but not a criminal mastermind!


Who's to say he didn't plan on defrauding everyone from the git-go? I mean you got to be able to sell your con, right?


----------



## Merrekof

Edika said:


> He's still a shitbag but not a criminal mastermind!


I agree. Reading through the infamous BRJ black friday thread made me realize he got away with it because his customers let him. The customers started complaining and taking further, legal steps LONG after the ship had sunk. It's easy to talk about it afterwards but they should've taken steps within the first year. The longer you wait with these sort of claims, the harder it gets to actually get some out of it. 
He'll probably pull a similar stunt in the future IF this is real, I think he's that sort of guy.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

What's up with the custom shop anyways? The site has been down for a while


----------



## Edika

Carl Kolchak said:


> Who's to say he didn't plan on defrauding everyone from the git-go? I mean you got to be able to sell your con, right?



Truth be told you can't. One scenario would have you think he started the whole company with the sole purpose to built his reputation and then cash in on one big swoop of orders. Doing a Black Friday sale gave a more affordable option to have as many people buy spots. But I don't believe he had this type of foresight in mind to pull something of this magnitude. Most people didn't pay more than the deposit so it's not like he got full payment for all the guitars in the Black Friday sale.

Maybe some time down the line he saw that building guitars, even the way he did by bringing the bodies built in Mexico, didn't give him the profits he expected and thought he might tried to cash in on the Black Friday thing and make a run. He thought to start with a few spots just to make it a limited thing and then suddenly open it up to get as many deposits as possible and run. Still if that was the plan and with the estimated 200 something guitars that were ordered with a $600 deposit would be $120000. Not a small amount of money but not something you can retire on. Unless playing the people that ordered the guitars as much as possible to get full payments would make more sense. Or if he had a plan b for the money he accumulated to be invested in something else. More plausible but still it didn't seem that he'll be the guy to think things through that much.

The main thing that makes me thing it was just saving his own hide is the amount of body blanks he had in his shop and probably on order at the Mexican factory. If he had invested in buying those bodies and the quality wasn't there anymore plus he couldn't, had to find a new factory to order them or had to hire capable people to fix them he would still lot be able to get them out on a timely manner or make any profit. To me he just saw the situation he put himself in at some point and decided to take the sleazy way out by grabbing the money and ran. Because supposedly his shop was doing well before the Black Friday sale. He was pumping out good quality guitars (regardless of the questionable origin) and he was making quite a profit. He seemed to be selling quite a large number of instruments for a small shop due to the hype generated by several youtube personalities.


----------



## Hollowway

Merrekof said:


> I agree. Reading through the infamous BRJ black friday thread made me realize he got away with it because his customers let him. The customers started complaining and taking further, legal steps LONG after the ship had sunk. It's easy to talk about it afterwards but they should've taken steps within the first year. The longer you wait with these sort of claims, the harder it gets to actually get some out of it.
> He'll probably pull a similar stunt in the future IF this is real, I think he's that sort of guy.


Yeah, it’s tough, though. I’ve had customs not delivered, and I’ve had stuff sent in to be repaired that was not sent back. In both cases the cops said there’s nothing they could do. So I could sue, either with a lawyer or in small claims court. And I’d win, for sure. But then if he didn’t pay, I’d have to sue him to get payment. And it goes on and on. You really have to have enough skin in the game to make it worth the headache and time devoted to go after a scammer.


----------



## Randy

TheBolivianSniper said:


> What's up with the custom shop anyways? The site has been down for a while



Post if you hear anything. Just curious, since this was looking more like a mail-order 'drop shipment' type outfit with a single dealer but the Custom Shop changes things a little. I'm still curious about what way they decide to take this brand, since the $1500+ MII thing didn't seem like it would be long term viable.


----------



## Merrekof

Randy said:


> the $1500+ MII thing didn't seem like it would be long term viable


Depends, if other companies raise their prices for MII as well. 
When I started playing guitar in the early 2000's, I wanted nothing but BC Riches. But this BCR line up is disappointing. I'd rather save up another 500$ and get a better guitar than buy a BC Rich at this point.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Randy said:


> Post if you hear anything. Just curious, since this was looking more like a mail-order 'drop shipment' type outfit with a single dealer but the Custom Shop changes things a little. I'm still curious about what way they decide to take this brand, since the $1500+ MII thing didn't seem like it would be long term viable.



Last I heard they were going ham with getting great builders from BCR history, I know Neil Moser is back and that's all I needed to hear tbh


----------



## Carl Kolchak

So what are the deals on these current gen BCRs then? Are they good for the money? Overpriced?


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Carl Kolchak said:


> So what are the deals on these current gen BCRs then? Are they good for the money? Overpriced?



Ok, I'll bite. One of my favorite channels on YouTube (Agufish, idk what yall think of him) got sent one to review and he generally is very open and honest about prior biases, if he's getting paid, etc, and he said it was a lot of cash for a WMI guitar but that it was one of the best he's ever played and the company was very good with talking to him and making the process easy. 

He had an extreme mockingbird with an evertune and just lost his mind over it. Granted, it's some of his preferred specs, but it seems like he was most pleased with the build quality and QC and said it was generally very very nice but still overpriced. 

I've also seen people who hated them and said they're utter garbage for what they're paying for and some of the pictures on these reviews are pretty condemning. I wouldn't try it right now while the prices are still huge and the brand isn't really established with their new identity but if you find them used they're usually sub 1k and I'd spring then. 

Red blanket has a beautiful Warlock on sale for 1200 rn and I'd say that's worth it, cheaper than the equivalent Schecter with a nicer top and finish.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Ok, I'll bite. One of my favorite channels on YouTube (Agufish, idk what yall think of him) got sent one to review and he generally is very open and honest about prior biases, if he's getting paid, etc, and he said it was a lot of cash for a WMI guitar but that it was one of the best he's ever played and the company was very good with talking to him and making the process easy.
> 
> He had an extreme mockingbird with an evertune and just lost his mind over it. Granted, it's some of his preferred specs, but it seems like he was most pleased with the build quality and QC and said it was generally very very nice but still overpriced.
> 
> I've also seen people who hated them and said they're utter garbage for what they're paying for and some of the pictures on these reviews are pretty condemning. I wouldn't try it right now while the prices are still huge and the brand isn't really established with their new identity but if you find them used they're usually sub 1k and I'd spring then.
> 
> Red blanket has a beautiful Warlock on sale for 1200 rn and I'd say that's worth it, cheaper than the equivalent Schecter with a nicer top and finish.


I'm still waiting to see if they ever finally make a 26.5" 7-string.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Carl Kolchak said:


> I'm still waiting to see if they ever finally make a 26.5" 7-string.



I'll bet they do multiscale sometime soon. They seem to be trying so hard to follow trends but they're just a little behind the curve.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I'll bet they do multiscale sometime soon. They seem to be trying so hard to follow trends but they're just a little behind the curve.


If they do I'd imagine it being like a 25.5" - 24.75 or something. I mean 26.5" 8-strings? C'mon...


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

Too much text and too little pictures in this thread lately, so here is a picture of my Bich:


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Maple Hill Cabin Studio said:


> Too much text and too little pictures in this thread lately, so here is a picture of my Bich:



He says with a dead image link


----------



## uni777

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> He says with a dead image link


Let me make up for that.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

uni777 said:


> Let me make up for that.
> View attachment 84752


----------



## Vyn

DrakkarTyrannis said:


>



Beat me to it.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Vyn said:


> *Beat *me to it.


heh heh heh


----------



## uni777




----------



## uni777

BTW, i had the white one modded a while ago. the bridge was crap and it had some damage anyway.


----------



## Merrekof

uni777 said:


> BTW, i had the white one modded a while ago. the bridge was crap and it had some damage anyway.
> View attachment 84753
> View attachment 84754


Still love that big headstock!


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

uni777 said:


> BTW, i had the white one modded a while ago. the bridge was crap and it had some damage anyway.



So are you like me and got stuck to a specific guitar shape not in production, so you end up collecting any that you see for a good price?


----------



## uni777

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> So are you like me and got stuck to a specific guitar shape not in production, so you end up collecting any that you see for a good price?


The ironbird is my favorite guitar shape though i like and play lot of different body styles. It was also my first guitar i ever owned. I used to have nine of them. I'm down to five now. I got rid of the Mark II's save for a BodyArt one which lies in pieces right now as a mod project.
Due to not being avaliable i had a local Luthier build me a sevenstring years ago based upon the Mark I import shape with a curved cut as opposed to the US sharp upper cut. (you can see the different cuts in the pics with the four of them) I also changed the bevels a little and made a headstock design based on the harpoon one. That might give an indication of how much i like this shape.


----------



## uni777

As i suspect the next question will be show the sevenstring.. here are some old pics i have of it.
I purpously had the diamonds be more like imports (24th fret also) as i did not want any one to mistake it for a real Rich in case i ever sold it and someone would change the headstock decal.
As it turns out now, i have sold most of my sevenstrings as i couldn't play them anymore due to rheumatism and RSI. The fact i had this one build with a bigger/rounder neck profile makes this the main sevenstring i play.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Sir, you are truly inspiring.


----------



## uni777

The guitars are.


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> He says with a dead image link



Don't know what happened. Showed up when I posted it and since I also got likes on it I guess other people could see it as well.


----------



## uni777

Awesome guitar!


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Maple Hill Cabin Studio said:


> Don't know what happened. Showed up when I posted it and since I also got likes on it I guess other people could see it as well.
> 
> View attachment 84765


Ooooooh! DETAILS PLEASE


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Holy shit this thread is making me really reconsider my choice in instruments. I got my best tone ever out of my bird last night and now I'm debating selling my others to get even more 2012 stuff.


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

Bare Knuckle Black Hawks


DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Ooooooh! DETAILS PLEASE



Sure, here are some specs:

-Bare Knuckle Black Hawk pickups
-Neal Moser electronic circuit
-Kahler 2315KK Kerry King trem

According to the dealer I purchased the guitar from the body was built, routed and painted by BRJ in 2010 for B.C. Rich as a part of what was supposed to be a "Master Built" series, but really never happened (I guess because of BRJ breakdown and B.C Richs many failed business decisions). B.C. Rich held onto the unfinished body until 2016, when the body was sold to the dealer, who shipped it to Neal Moser who installed the electronics and hardware and finished the guitar. Because of the build history the guitar was sold as NOS at a great reduced price compared to what a new custom B.C. Rich would cost.

What's amazing is that if I was going to spec a custom B.C. Rich I would have chosen the exact same specs and and a silverburst finish, so I feel really fortunate who got hold on this guitar.


----------



## twguitar

Maple Hill Cabin Studio said:


> Bare Knuckle Black Hawks
> 
> 
> Sure, here are some specs:
> 
> -Bare Knuckle Black Hawk pickups
> -Neal Moser electronic circuit
> -Kahler 2315KK Kerry King trem
> 
> According to the dealer I purchased the guitar from the body was built, routed and painted by BRJ in 2010 for B.C. Rich as a part of what was supposed to be a "Master Built" series, but really never happened (I guess because of BRJ breakdown and B.C Richs many failed business decisions). B.C. Rich held onto the unfinished body until 2016, when the body was sold to the dealer, who shipped it to Neal Moser who installed the electronics and hardware and finished the guitar. Because of the build history the guitar was sold as NOS at a great reduced price compared to what a new custom B.C. Rich would cost.
> 
> What's amazing is that if I was going to spec a custom B.C. Rich I would have chosen the exact same specs and and a silverburst finish, so I feel really fortunate who got hold on this guitar.


Indeed, bizarrely it was a limited run for Amazon who backed out. Great guitars I bought a few from Hanser.


----------



## uni777

Maple Hill Cabin Studio said:


> -Bare Knuckle Black Hawk pickups
> -Neal Moser electronic circuit
> -Kahler 2315KK Kerry King trem


Nice!


----------



## jco5055

yeah BC Rich has always had a strange aura for me...I owned both a 2010 Marc Rizzo Stealth and whatever the mid-tier model of KKV is and both (especially the Stealth) had a certain mojo/playability I'd argue is on par with a lot of $3k+ guitars I've played.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

jco5055 said:


> yeah BC Rich has always had a strange aura for me...I owned both a 2010 Marc Rizzo Stealth and whatever the mid-tier model of KKV is and both (especially the Stealth) had a certain mojo/playability I'd argue is on par with a lot of $3k+ guitars I've played.



My Dracos were pretty awesome honestly. The neck was great, the pickups were great. I had NO complaints at all and kept both of them bone stock because they just worked. Every now and then I wish I still had one. Especially when I see how much they go for now.


----------



## uni777

Yes, the +/- 2010 models were really nice. I've got a Mock ST also and that one is great too.


----------



## Merrekof

jco5055 said:


> yeah BC Rich has always had a strange aura for me...I owned both a 2010 Marc Rizzo Stealth and whatever the mid-tier model of KKV is and both (especially the Stealth) had a certain mojo/playability I'd argue is on par with a lot of $3k+ guitars I've played.


BC Rich wasn't that bad imo. You just needed to know wich series or years were good/bad. I played BCR's that were complete crap or nicely built guitars. The Deluxe warbeast was great, no sharp fret edges, no finishing flaws whatsoever, clean electronics,..
They also were one of the very few brands to offer ebony fretboards on production import models. (Before CITES happened.)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> They also were one of the very few brands to offer ebony fretboards on production import models. (Before CITES happened.)



I think you're mis-remembering this. 

Ebony (other than Gabon, which no one in the import game was using) was not CITES restricted, which is why Ibanez switched to Macassar ebony when rosewood was black listed.


----------



## Merrekof

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think you're mis-remembering this.
> 
> Ebony (other than Gabon, which no one in the import game was using) was not CITES restricted, which is why Ibanez switched to Macassar ebony when rosewood was black listed.


I don't know what you mean exactly?

I meant that 10 years ago, like 90% of all guitars had rosewood fretboards. Then there were also some maple fb's. Ebony fb's were usually on the higher priced models. IIRC, BC Rich offered ebony fb's on sub 1k models, I can't remember any other brand from the top of my head that offered that back then.
Since CITES banned rosewood, there are dozens of wood species available on guitars in all price ranges.

But, I could remember it all wrong though.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

jco5055 said:


> yeah BC Rich has always had a strange aura for me...I owned both a 2010 Marc Rizzo Stealth and whatever the mid-tier model of KKV is and both (especially the Stealth) had a certain mojo/playability I'd argue is on par with a lot of $3k+ guitars I've played.



I've been looking for that exact stealth model before I decided to go with the Schecter I have right now. You can't find them and I guess that's why lol


----------



## jco5055

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I've been looking for that exact stealth model before I decided to go with the Schecter I have right now. You can't find them and I guess that's why lol



The neck dive was a bitch though, that's why I sold it. I legit was only attracted to Superstrats for years after lol.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

jco5055 said:


> The neck dive was a bitch though, that's why I sold it. I legit was only attracted to Superstrats for years after lol.



That's the opposite of why I ditched my first RG. It was so body heavy it felt awful to stand up with. My bird is a lot lighter and with a lot better weight distribution and even without comfort carves it feels way better


----------



## jco5055

TheBolivianSniper said:


> That's the opposite of why I ditched my first RG. It was so body heavy it felt awful to stand up with. My bird is a lot lighter and with a lot better weight distribution and even without comfort carves it feels way better



Sometimes I do wonder if the Stealth just needed a higher strap,since I had a standard ClipLok that didnt go as high as I like. in my experience a strap that's higher up in the Petrucci-ish range seems to help prevent that to an extent.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

jco5055 said:


> Sometimes I do wonder if the Stealth just needed a higher strap,since I had a standard ClipLok that didnt go as high as I like. in my experience a strap that's higher up in the Petrucci-ish range seems to help prevent that to an extent.



I'm comfortably 5' 7" and I find that higher straps really help balance. Like it's cool to have it low but if you're playing anything above the 12th fret have it about mid torso and it's significantly easier to hold up. I won't play with it jazz height everything I have is decently higher than most people and it fights dive pretty well too


----------



## jco5055

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I'm comfortably 5' 7" and I find that higher straps really help balance. Like it's cool to have it low but if you're playing anything above the 12th fret have it about mid torso and it's significantly easier to hold up. I won't play with it jazz height everything I have is decently higher than most people and it fights dive pretty well too



I'm 5'9 but with a long torso (not sure if that changes things) but for example I play with my Aristides the strap literally as high as it can lol.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

jco5055 said:


> I'm 5'9 but with a long torso (not sure if that changes things) but for example I play with my Aristides the strap literally as high as it can lol.


This made me cringe, lol. Everyone sets their guitar to where they need it. There's no right or wrong, but as a self professed chug monkey I like mine as low as possible. Once I tried rocking the chest height just to see what it was like and it was freaking traumatizing.


----------



## jco5055

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> This made me cringe, lol. Everyone sets their guitar to where they need it. There's no right or wrong, but as a self professed chug monkey I like mine as low as possible. Once I tried rocking the chest height just to see what it was like and it was freaking traumatizing.



It's weird, when I default to my playing position just with air guitar it seems like i'd be most comfy with my picking hand low but my fretting hand high so until they make a guitar that comes in two parts to set each to a height lol....


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I mean I'm 6'0 with really long arms (77" reach gang lol) and I still play with my guitars strapped up relatively high.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Can we all agree playing hunched over sitting down is the superior pose though????


----------



## spudmunkey

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Can we all agree playing hunched over sitting down is the superior pose though????



The real power move: playing at calf level


----------



## iamaom

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Can we all agree playing hunched over sitting down is the superior pose though????


I think all of us will be quasimodo by the time old age sets in.


----------



## Edika

jco5055 said:


> Sometimes I do wonder if the Stealth just needed a higher strap,since I had a standard ClipLok that didnt go as high as I like. in my experience a strap that's higher up in the Petrucci-ish range seems to help prevent that to an extent.



I had one of the Marc Rizzo Stealth's and while excellent sounding and mean looking the neckdive was atrocious. I had one that the previous owner moved the strap button to a better location and I bought a wide strap to grip better. Still dove down.

I didn't mind that as I played mostly sitting down. I just had too many instruments at that point of time and was not playing 7 strings at all and decided to sell it. I do miss it though...


----------



## jco5055

Edika said:


> I had one of the Marc Rizzo Stealth's and while excellent sounding and mean looking the neckdive was atrocious. I had one that the previous owner moved the strap button to a better location and I bought a wide strap to grip better. Still dove down.
> 
> I didn't mind that as I played mostly sitting down. I just had too many instruments at that point of time and was not playing 7 strings at all and decided to sell it. I do miss it though...



I moved my strap button too haha.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

spudmunkey said:


> The real power move: playing at calf level


Rob is the greatest


----------



## SandyRavage

Just confirmed with two of their dealers all new production has moved to Indonesia meaning WMI is just the current abalone ridden garbage.

Hard to believe they won’t make a plain production model in S Korea. 

Back to the other brands again, had some hope for a real resurgence but getting crushed.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

SandyRavage said:


> Just confirmed with two of their dealers all new production has moved to Indonesia meaning WMI is just the current abalone ridden garbage.
> 
> Hard to believe they won’t make a plain production model in S Korea.
> 
> Back to the other brands again, had some hope for a real resurgence but getting crushed.



Eh, WMI is wayyyyyy over hyped. They've pushed through plenty of basket cases relative to the other Asian OEMs. 

I'd be more concerned that pretty much nothing promised has come to fruition. Sure, covid probably played a part, but all the other brands haven't seemed to have slowed as much. 

Where those solid color, non-abalone classic shapes at?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

You'd think it wouldn't be that fucking difficult to release some 80s reissues for half their lineup, and a more modern setup for the other half of the lineup. Seems easy enough, but they have a dipshit at the wheel, so that ship isn't sure where the fuck to go.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

SandyRavage said:


> Back to the other brands again



Who's left? I know 2 for sure, and one's inconsistent where they're being made, and one's getting *very* pricey.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

SandyRavage said:


> Just confirmed with two of their dealers all new production has moved to Indonesia meaning WMI is just the current abalone ridden garbage.
> 
> Hard to believe they won’t make a plain production model in S Korea.
> 
> Back to the other brands again, had some hope for a real resurgence but getting crushed.



Anyone know some good ways to remove curses? At this point it's not luck that the brand keeps getting run into the ground, whoever takes charge of the company automatically becomes an idiot it seems like


----------



## SandyRavage

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, WMI is wayyyyyy over hyped. They've pushed through plenty of basket cases relative to the other Asian OEMs.
> 
> I'd be more concerned that pretty much nothing promised has come to fruition. Sure, covid probably played a part, but all the other brands haven't seemed to have slowed as much.
> 
> Where those solid color, non-abalone classic shapes at?



Most guitars I’ve gotten from WMI have been very consistent quality and very nice for price. Haven’t played too many lemons from them.

Agreed with the not delivering on stuff part. Fairly confident I can see this circling the drain already as I only have really seen the same photo shoots from Zoltans home with his car collection, and the same factory photos from close to a year ago.

Would be stoked to see them actually succeed and put some quality guitars out there.

Seems unlikely considering how few of these actually sold....allegedly (according to red blanket) its under a dozen actually delivered so far.


----------



## trem licking

I will +1 that WMI is SUPER overhyped. Played plenty of -look amazing but have VERY dealbreaking build flaws- from there. They are only slightly better than indo builds, albeit finished nicer. South Korea is not the same as "built in USA or Japan" for reliable quality


----------



## MaxOfMetal

trem licking said:


> I will +1 that WMI is SUPER overhyped. Played plenty of -look amazing but have VERY dealbreaking build flaws- from there. They are only slightly better than indo builds, albeit finished nicer. South Korea is not the same as "built in USA or Japan" for reliable quality



You can't even hang your hat on USA or Japanese or really any region. Not even the specific factory. 

You really have to take stock of the brand and how well they handle QA/QC.


----------



## trem licking

Right. They are all built by humans but most specifically Japan has the best chance of a good'n based on their culture. That's why MIJ is such a thing... Toyotas, hondas, tools, etc. It's there for a reason. Im sure Fugi pushes out some turds but im willing to bet its to a much lesser degree than most other places


----------



## MaxOfMetal

trem licking said:


> Right. They are all built by humans but most specifically Japan has the best chance of a good'n based on their culture. That's why MIJ is such a thing... Toyotas, hondas, tools, etc. It's there for a reason. Im sure Fugi pushes out some turds but im willing to bet its to a much lesser degree than most other places



Eh, depends. High end MIJ stuff is typically very, very good. 

But Fujigen does ship a bunch of turds, and ESP Standard/E-II can sometimes be almost as inconsistent. If you've followed them as closely as I have over the years a lot of the shine wears off. 

You might as well go by price as it's about as accurate of an indicator of quality as region of manufacturing these days. Which is part of the point I'm making. You're better off looking at the culture and priorities of the individual brand.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

trem licking said:


> Right. They are all built by humans but most specifically Japan has the best chance of a good'n based on their culture. That's why MIJ is such a thing... Toyotas, hondas, tools, etc. It's there for a reason. Im sure Fugi pushes out some turds but im willing to bet its to a much lesser degree than most other places


I guess all the conscientious Jap guitar builders must've taken that particular day off then, because the Prestige I got sucked.


----------



## Opion

Just saw a post in the BC Rich Junkies page - Bernie Rico Jr. passed away on Thursday after taking some blood pressure medication. Passed away in his sleep.

Regardless of the drama that BRJ has caused and the legacy he’s left behind, RIP.


----------



## Hollowway

Opion said:


> Just saw a post in the BC Rich Junkies page - Bernie Rico Jr. passed away on Thursday after taking some blood pressure medication. Passed away in his sleep.
> 
> Regardless of the drama that BRJ has caused and the legacy he’s left behind, RIP.



Yeah, a couple of us were talking about it in this thread: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/is-it-best-to-pass-on-used-brj-guitars.343200/


----------



## Vyn

Shit, I literally just posted a thread in General before coming to this thread.


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, depends. High end MIJ stuff is typically very, very good.
> 
> But Fujigen does ship a bunch of turds, and ESP Standard/E-II can sometimes be almost as inconsistent. If you've followed them as closely as I have over the years a lot of the shine wears off.
> 
> You might as well go by price as it's about as accurate of an indicator of quality as region of manufacturing these days. Which is part of the point I'm making. You're better off looking at the culture and priorities of the individual brand.



Well, the thing is, one individual can only lay his hands on a very limited set of the production, so personal experience is mostly irrelevant except for very niche builders with small production. ESP is one of the brands I had zero issues with over the years... but then so is Gibson... and every guitar I got whith a value over 1500ish. Meaning 100% of my issues (most being fixable) were with Ibanez, because they're the only brand where I shop under 1K. (Despite downsizing, I still have 3 ESPs and 4 Gibsons...)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Andromalia said:


> Well, the thing is, one individual can only lay his hands on a very limited set of the production, so personal experience is mostly irrelevant except for very niche builders with small production. ESP is one of the brands I had zero issues with over the years... but then so is Gibson... and every guitar I got whith a value over 1500ish. Meaning 100% of my issues (most being fixable) were with Ibanez, because they're the only brand where I shop under 1K. (Despite downsizing, I still have 3 ESPs and 4 Gibsons...)



I wouldn't say personal experience is completely irrelevant, it's just something to take into consideration. 

Of course I've had the unique opportunity to handle what was probably thousands of guitars and basses having worked in the industry for a number of years. I say "unique" but there are plenty of technicians, retail staff, dealers, etc. 

I guess what I'm saying is, always take things with a grain of salt and consider your sources, including your own.


----------



## 777timesgod

Made a stop on the way from work to buy a coffin case (to fit my Jackson 8 string) and ended up buying the guitar it had in it too. BC Rich Acrylic series from 2005 I think. If anyone wants an NGD thread, let me know and I will slowly work on one. This is what BC Rich was all about, immature concepts which looked cool as hell and can play very well with a few mods (which you can do as they were cheap as hell back in the day).
While I am not on board with the new venture (overpriced, questionable QC, PC attitude, not getting the spirit, no Kahlers, etc.), since Neal Moser is involved I hope it works out or at least does not end up badly and gets his good name smudged.


----------



## cip 123

Spaced Out Ace said:


> but they have a dipshit at the wheel



Who is running this version of BC?


----------



## Merrekof

777timesgod said:


> Made a stop on the way from work to buy a coffin case (to fit my Jackson 8 string) and ended up buying the guitar it had in it too. BC Rich Acrylic series from 2005 I think. If anyone wants an NGD thread, let me know and I will slowly work on one. This is what BC Rich was all about, immature concepts which looked cool as hell and can play very well with a few mods (which you can do as they were cheap as hell back in the day).
> While I am not on board with the new venture (overpriced, questionable QC, PC attitude, not getting the spirit, no Kahlers, etc.), since Neal Moser is involved I hope it works out or at least does not end up badly and gets his good name smudged.
> View attachment 85287


This looks awesome and terrible at the same time!


----------



## Merrekof

cip 123 said:


> Who is running this version of BC?


Five finger death punch. Or just Zoltan?


----------



## stinkoman

So forgive me if its been asked, I searched through this thread and might have missed it, but can anybody tell me what the "shredzilla" profile is like or comparable to? I been wanting a stealth for a longtime and overpriced and questionable QC aside might be willing to take a chance on a used one.


----------



## cip 123

Merrekof said:


> Five finger death punch. Or just Zoltan?


Explains a lot


----------



## ExplorerMike

777timesgod said:


> Made a stop on the way from work to buy a coffin case (to fit my Jackson 8 string) and ended up buying the guitar it had in it too. BC Rich Acrylic series from 2005 I think. If anyone wants an NGD thread, let me know and I will slowly work on one. This is what BC Rich was all about, immature concepts which looked cool as hell and can play very well with a few mods (which you can do as they were cheap as hell back in the day).
> While I am not on board with the new venture (overpriced, questionable QC, PC attitude, not getting the spirit, no Kahlers, etc.), since Neal Moser is involved I hope it works out or at least does not end up badly and gets his good name smudged.
> View attachment 85287



Nice grab! I’ve got an acrylic green Mockingbird and like you said, it’s a goofy concept but the thing plays great. Been tempted to try to collect all of them just because they are so whacky and you don’t come across them too often. Actually had a green Mockingbird come through one of my local Guitar Centers a few months back but didn’t grab it because I already had one.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

777timesgod said:


> Made a stop on the way from work to buy a coffin case (to fit my Jackson 8 string) and ended up buying the guitar it had in it too. BC Rich Acrylic series from 2005 I think. If anyone wants an NGD thread, let me know and I will slowly work on one. This is what BC Rich was all about, immature concepts which looked cool as hell and can play very well with a few mods (which you can do as they were cheap as hell back in the day).
> While I am not on board with the new venture (overpriced, questionable QC, PC attitude, not getting the spirit, no Kahlers, etc.), since Neal Moser is involved I hope it works out or at least does not end up badly and gets his good name smudged.
> View attachment 85287


Where did you buy this? The guitarist of Goatwhore just happens to be selling one of those...with a coffin case


----------



## 777timesgod

Merrekof said:


> This looks awesome and terrible at the same time!



Exactly! This what BC Rich is all about. Everyone who sees it goes mental. I am impressed by how clean their work on the is, the cavity covers being acrylic too is a nice touch also.



ExplorerMike said:


> Nice grab! I’ve got an acrylic green Mockingbird and like you said, it’s a goofy concept but the thing plays great. Been tempted to try to collect all of them just because they are so whacky and you don’t come across them too often. Actually had a green Mockingbird come through one of my local Guitar Centers a few months back but didn’t grab it because I already had one.



Thanks, the weight is horrible but I work out daily so I can take it standing up. Totally understand why some people do not like them because of it. A top heavy guitar for sure. I remember seeing in a catalogue a red warlock with see-through humbuckers too besides the headstock. Most of the older BC Riches (which were not Bronze and Platinum junk) are getting hard to find or are selling at ridiculous prices.



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Where did you buy this? The guitarist of Goatwhore just happens to be selling one of those...with a coffin case



Locally, it was on a used items site that I am a member in and since it was right on my way from work I figured I would make an offer for the Coffin case as my Jackson 8 string needed one (it was a B-stock and the shop send it in a hideous Stagg bag which does not fit it as the top part pierces the bag and will soon tear it through). The seller bought it to learn how to play (great or terrible choice for a first guitar depending on it being cool and enticing to play versus the insane weight). 
If the guitarist from Goatwhore sells his Moser though, notify pls. Saw them live years ago and he was playing a lame LTD unfortunately.


----------



## PhantomLord

whats up with that? Do they finally want to have my money?


----------



## Edika

PhantomLord said:


> View attachment 85369
> 
> whats up with that? Do they finally want to have my money?



Are they finally rolling out the Ironbirds with less bling? It seems so from that one leaning on boxes. I'll let the non recessed covers slide if everything else is in order on the front side!


----------



## JimF

I am excite!


----------



## SandyRavage

Non recessed covers seems like a miss. Minor but what can you do.

Hopefully this isn’t the Indo with the horrible steel plate graphic and something simple and clean. Time will tell.


----------



## twguitar

That’s the USA rivet bird Ron built nearly two years ago. BCR USAs never have recessed covers, it’s just one of those things


----------



## JimF

Would explain why it doesn't show the front. How can you tell? Just the covers?


----------



## uni777

PhantomLord said:


> View attachment 85369
> 
> whats up with that? Do they finally want to have my money?


WANT WANT WANT WANT


----------



## Edika

Personally I thought it was an import due to the fact that it is in a warehouse stacked on other BC Rich boxes. If it is a custom shop model and they just did this to show that things are moving along, for all the people requesting Ironbirds without the bling, it is a stupid move.


----------



## Adieu

spudmunkey said:


> The real power move: playing at calf level



Horse stance

Dude must be a brown belt


----------



## fantom

PhantomLord said:


> View attachment 85369
> 
> whats up with that? Do they finally want to have my money?



Where is the other tuning peg?



JimF said:


> Would explain why it doesn't show the front. How can you tell? Just the covers?



They didn't show the front because the abalone binding might drop the hype...



twguitar said:


> That’s the USA rivet bird Ron built nearly two years ago. BCR USAs never have recessed covers, it’s just one of those things



This. I have owned a decent number of USA BCRs, and none of them have ever had recessed covers.


----------



## Edika

It doesn't necessarily mean it is USA BC rich because it doesn't have recessed covers though. But I see no SN number or any type of letters that would indicate country of manufacture on the back of the headstock and that would indicate a Custom Shop unless it is a prototype. In any case this is one idiotic advertising campaign.


----------



## twguitar

It’s owned by one of the investors behind BCR at the moment. Look closely you can see the serial number on the back of the headstock. 
Sort of agree it’s a weird thing to post but it’s a killer guitar so who cares


----------



## Edika

twguitar said:


> It’s owned by one of the investors behind BCR at the moment. Look closely you can see the serial number on the back of the headstock.
> Sort of agree it’s a weird thing to post but it’s a killer guitar so who cares



Now that you mention it, yes I can see the serial number and it is a kick ass guitar. They had shown pictures of the single hum Ironbirds without the bling and a lot of people have been waiting for them. Posts like these were giving hope that these were closer to been released! That is why I feel it's a dumb move from their part!


----------



## Rosal76

Edika said:


> They had shown pictures of the single hum Ironbirds without the bling and a lot of people have been waiting for them. Posts like these were giving hope that these were closer to been released! That is why I feel it's a dumb move from their part!



They have this Ironbird on Reverb. They say it's a 2020 model. Pretty cool looking with the red cherry finish and the "R" logo. The diamond inlay(s) on the first and 24th fret is a little hard to get used to, though. 






https://reverb.com/item/35967547-b-c-rich-usa-custom-shop-ironbird-dark-blood-cherry


----------



## Aliascent

Rosal76 said:


> They have this Ironbird on Reverb. They say it's a 2020 model. Pretty cool looking with the red cherry finish and the "R" logo. The diamond inlay(s) on the first and 24th fret is a little hard to get used to, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/35967547-b-c-rich-usa-custom-shop-ironbird-dark-blood-cherry


Oh yeah that's the stuff. This as a production model and I'm sold.


----------



## Edika

Rosal76 said:


> They have this Ironbird on Reverb. They say it's a 2020 model. Pretty cool looking with the red cherry finish and the "R" logo. The diamond inlay(s) on the first and 24th fret is a little hard to get used to, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/35967547-b-c-rich-usa-custom-shop-ironbird-dark-blood-cherry



That's really really nice but waaaaaay out of my price range. Hence the wait for the production single hum Ironbirds !


----------



## lewis

i cant help but look at most of the BC rich lineup and think how awesome they would look headless


----------



## jco5055

How does the custom shop work now? The main website doesn't have a custom shop section, and the custom shop website seems to be outdated/I wonder if it still applies post-FFDP ownership.


----------



## Hollowway

Teenage me is trying to convince adult me to get a Warlock, but adult me is too busy sniffing corks.


----------



## lewis

Hollowway said:


> Teenage me is trying to convince adult me to get a Warlock, but adult me is too busy sniffing corks.


I had this a few years back - caved and bought a 7 string warlock (the lucky model was it?) and it was cool but uninspiring. Flipped it for profit somehow.

Havent gone back since.
I would probably prefer a 6 string warlock as a project


----------



## asopala

Hollowway said:


> Teenage me is trying to convince adult me to get a Warlock, but adult me is too busy sniffing corks.



Warlocks are comfy as hell, but they had a serious neck-dive problem, and I remember the 2 I had at one point both had finish issues on the pointy ends, where it would almost come apart from each side because of the angle of the points. Sitting down and playing in classical position was a joy though.


----------



## fantom

Every BC Rich shape except the Ignitor has a serious neck dive problem.


----------



## fantom

Rosal76 said:


> They have this Ironbird on Reverb. They say it's a 2020 model. Pretty cool looking with the red cherry finish and the "R" logo. The diamond inlay(s) on the first and 24th fret is a little hard to get used to, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/35967547-b-c-rich-usa-custom-shop-ironbird-dark-blood-cherry



While I dig the guitar... That price is ridiculously too high for what that guitar is. A similar custom guitar from them in the 90s would have run less than $2k. Did guitar prices really inflate this much?


----------



## Merrekof

fantom said:


> Every BC Rich shape except the Ignitor has a serious neck dive problem.


Nah, I know from my own experience that a Warbeast an Beast don't have neck dive.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

fantom said:


> Every BC Rich shape except the Ignitor has a serious neck dive problem.


 My Dracos had no neck dive


----------



## jco5055

fantom said:


> Every BC Rich shape except the Ignitor has a serious neck dive problem.



I owned a Stealth and as mentioned, HORRIBLE neck dive. I had a KKV also though and no neck dive at all.


----------



## Rosal76

fantom said:


> While I dig the guitar... That price is ridiculously too high for what that guitar is. A similar custom guitar from them in the 90s would have run less than $2k. Did guitar prices really inflate this much?



For B.C. Rich, yes. Way too expensive for me. If the guitar had a transparent finish, body/neck/headstock binding, a intricate inlay design like a Ibanez Jem, tree of life type think, the most expensive bridge and pickups, maybe, just maybe I could justify a $4,000 price tag but not $6,000.


----------



## 777timesgod

Adieu said:


> Horse stance. Dude must be a brown belt



Knowing your Tekki kata is a prerequisite for joining Metallica.



Rosal76 said:


> The diamond inlay(s) on the first and 24th fret is a little hard to get used to, though.



As long as they do not do the annoying "stop the inlays at the 19th fret" thing I am ok with an extra one on the first fret.



asopala said:


> Warlocks are comfy as hell, but they had a serious neck-dive problem, and I remember the 2 I had at one point both had finish issues on the pointy ends, where it would almost come apart from each side because of the angle of the points. Sitting down and playing in classical position was a joy though.



My acrylic one stays still. Maybe it is my body structure and how I strap the guitar but none of my guitars ever had neck dive. Agree on the classical position though.


----------



## asopala

777timesgod said:


> My acrylic one stays still. Maybe it is my body structure and how I strap the guitar but none of my guitars ever had neck dive. Agree on the classical position though.



I remember trying one of those, and I remember them being insanely heavy due to the material, so maybe it balances out the neck? IDK though.


----------



## ExplorerMike

My acrylic Mockingbird stays put pretty well as far as neck dive, but like mentioned, it’s essentially got a 12 pound counterweight as the body haha.


----------



## mbardu

ExplorerMike said:


> My acrylic Mockingbird stays put pretty well as far as neck dive, but like mentioned, it’s essentially got a 12 pound counterweight as the body haha.



No kidding acrylic is clearly the best antidote to any sort of neck dive


----------



## Dyster

fantom said:


> Every BC Rich shape except the Ignitor has a serious neck dive problem.



my warlock has no neckdive, neither has any warlock ive tried (not many i admit)


----------



## Grindspine

fantom said:


> Every BC Rich shape except the Ignitor has a serious neck dive problem.


The neck through ones have that big chunk of maple or mahog in the center to help balance the weight. Bolt-on necks tend to have it worse.

My bolt-on Virgin did much better with a solid copper sustain block under the bridge and light mini tuners along with changing the position of the strap buttons. The strap button placement was rather silly on most BCR guitars.


----------



## possumkiller

Idk something just doesn't seem right when a korean bcr without a case costs as much as a pretty high end japanese ibanez with ebony fretboard, stainless steel frets, and a really nice hardshell case with candy...


----------



## Merrekof

possumkiller said:


> Idk something just doesn't seem right when a korean bcr without a case costs as much as a pretty high end japanese ibanez with ebony fretboard, stainless steel frets, and a really nice hardshell case with candy...
> 
> View attachment 85665


Have you seen the prices on those bcr cases btw?


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

Merrekof said:


> Have you seen the prices on those bcr cases btw?


That's goddamn highway robbery


----------



## spudmunkey

Not sure if we've had a clear straight-on shot if N 8-string multiscale here yet.


----------



## mbardu

spudmunkey said:


> Not sure if we've had a clear straight-on shot if N 8-string multiscale here yet.
> View attachment 85668



There are quite a few 8 strings I can get along with, including fanned frets... but this just looks all sorts of wonky :|


----------



## spudmunkey

mbardu said:


> There are quite a few 8 strings I can get along with, including fanned frets... but this just looks all sorts of wonky :|



It's definitely weird-looking where the bridge pickup is LESS angled than the highest frets. Now, being slightly less than the bridge would make sense, but this looks extra weird. That said, looks are completely subjective, and PERHAPS they did a bunch of testing and this was the position they liked best; a case of Function over form...or maybe they thought it made sense to make the bridge pickup at that angle so that it was splitting the difference between the neck pickup and the bridge. 

Either way, it does look wonky...I've never liked the Shredzilla horns anyway.. [/negative Nancy]


----------



## mbardu

spudmunkey said:


> It's definitely weird-looking where the bridge pickup is LESS angled than the highest frets. Now, being slightly less than the bridge would make sense, but this looks extra weird. That said, looks are completely subjective, and PERHAPS they did a bunch of testing and this was the position they liked best; a case of Function over form...or maybe they thought it made sense to make the bridge pickup at that angle so that it was splitting the difference between the neck pickup and the bridge.
> 
> Either way, it does look wonky...I've never liked the Shredzilla horns anyway.. [/negative Nancy]



Well at least we've got tons of Abalone, am I right? Gonna make all metal players happy, right guys?

....guys?


----------



## Edika

Will they just fucking release the one hum Ironbirds and see the cash flow? Everytime I see this thread updated I open the page and see one uninteresting guitar after the other.


----------



## 777timesgod

Since the Ironbird keeps getting mentioned, it says on this ad on Reverb that it was designed by Joey Rico. the other son of Bernie Sr. I do not know if this is true but see the bass he build for his own firm Unique Guitars. Anyone with experience on his brand? Apparently lasted from 2003-2010.
https://reverb.com/item/35801867-un...9.woxf6NReaOvQYDcxStWzx-pk08m-gjsRIVVLJwvaap4


----------



## Damon67

possumkiller said:


> Idk something just doesn't seem right when a korean bcr without a case costs as much as a pretty high end japanese ibanez with ebony fretboard, stainless steel frets, and a really nice hardshell case with candy...
> 
> View attachment 85665


Fun.... I took that picture of the black cherry 8


----------



## Damon67

190 pages, wow! It's been a while, here are some pics of 7s. Multiscales in a few days.


----------



## asopala

Damon67 said:


> 190 pages, wow! It's been a while, here are some pics of 7s. Multiscales in a few days.



Really digging the flat tops a good deal more than the carved tops, honestly.


----------



## Vyn

Single hum Ironbirds confirmed.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Vyn said:


> View attachment 85910
> 
> 
> Single hum Ironbirds confirmed.


they've been confirmed for a while. They've literally been re using the same pics of protos for over a year.


----------



## Hollowway

@Damon67 any new shredzilla 8s with Floyd’s coming down the pike?


----------



## Damon67

Hollowway said:


> @Damon67 any new shredzilla 8s with Floyd’s coming down the pike?


Nothing new on the 8 string lineup in the near future. Same 2 colors... better like black or brown (or cherry on the Prophecy). Maybe they're trying to match people's belts or something, kinda like a handbag. I dunno. Would be nice to see other colors and shapes on 7-8 stuff. Almost makes me want to have something built for us. An RBG specific 7 string... Warlock or Bich would probably be my top two choices. But I'd have to buy about 30 of 'em, and I'd be a bit concerned with moving that many.


----------



## Damon67

KnightBrolaire said:


> they've been confirmed for a while. They've literally been re using the same pics of protos for over a year.


They've literally NOT been using them for over a year, though it seems that way. I think the protos were finished in March. They're 90 days from going to market.

Trying to get a new line of guitars out in the middle of a pandemic, when you can't travel, and the factory doesn't naturally speak your native tongue can be a pretty challenging task. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I'm majorly biased, but I'm also majorly impressed with what's been accomplished in the last year. To use your verbiage, there's 'literally' 166... that's ONE HUNDRED SIXTY SIX brand new items they have put out to the public since the relaunch last year.

Is it everything that everyone wants it to be? Maybe not yet, but look at what's been accomplished in a year. What it is.... is fucking incredible.

Kudos to Bill Xavier and team.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Vyn said:


> View attachment 85910
> 
> 
> Single hum Ironbirds confirmed.


That top wing needs to be about another 10 or so inches longer.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Damon67 said:


> They've literally NOT been using them for over a year, though it seems that way. I think the protos were finished in March. They're 90 days from going to market.
> 
> Trying to get a new line of guitars out in the middle of a pandemic, when you can't travel, and the factory doesn't naturally speak your native tongue can be a pretty challenging task. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I'm majorly biased, but I'm also majorly impressed with what's been accomplished in the last year. To use your verbiage, there's 'literally' 166... that's ONE HUNDRED SIXTY SIX brand new items they have put out to the public since the relaunch last year.
> 
> Is it everything that everyone wants it to be? Maybe not yet, but look at what's been accomplished in a year. What it is.... is fucking incredible.
> 
> Kudos to Bill Xavier and team.


I was mistaken about the finished proto pics being out for almost a year, but they do have a pic showing a single hum ironbird being routed out from November of last year on their IG.
I don't know how they've got 166 different variants and yet the only ones I've seen in the wild have been the shredzillas and a few Warlocks.


----------



## Vyn

KnightBrolaire said:


> I was mistaken about the finished proto pics being out for almost a year, but they do have a pic showing a single hum ironbird being routed out from November of last year on their IG.
> I don't know how they've got 166 different variants and yet the only ones I've seen in the wild have been the shredzillas and a few Warlocks.



I haven't seen many of the rebooted BC Rich guitars in the BC Rich groups, although I suspect that's because a lot of them are gatekeeping purists (looking at you BC Rich Junkies). There have been a few popping up in non-BC Rich groups, have seen a few in the Pointy Guitar groups.


----------



## Wyvern Claw

For what it's worth to anyone here, I just got a new Warlock in today. The new BCR stuff is expensive, but even the older stuff doesn't seem to be going for much less these days, I frequently see the old NJ Deluxe Warlocks for sale for over $1000 on the used market. 

Used to own a limited run Warlock from Korea (the BSM Warlock II if anyone remembers those) and later sold it to an ex. Just recently I borrowed it from her and did a bunch of work on it for her, and her dad has an NJ Deluxe Warlock I also restored for him. Fantastic guitars, but the new stuff really is better. Not by miles, and they do still have the odd little imperfections, but at least mine has nothing that affects playability whatsoever. Just tiny cosmetic stuff that I also found on my Korean Ormsby Hype GTR in the same price range. Here's my ex's Warlock, her dad's NJ, and my new Extreme series for reference.


----------



## mlp187

@Wyvern Claw Nice. That is a killer set of guitars.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Great. More ss shaped 7-strings. Just what the world needs....


----------



## Seabeast2000

Carl Kolchak said:


> Great. More ss shaped 7-strings. Just what the world needs....


And vape shops.


----------



## spudmunkey

Not sure if this belonged here or the meme thread...


----------



## SoItGoesRVA

Anyone been able to put hands on one of the new Stealths yet? I have a mighty lust for that spalted one, but I'm concerned about the QC


----------



## lewis

anyone ever took a warlock body, fitted a fan fret, headless neck, and install single headless tuners fanned?

The body looks like it would work as a headless perfectly.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

lewis said:


> anyone ever took a warlock body, fitted a fan fret, headless neck, and install single headless tuners fanned?
> 
> The body looks like it would work as a headless perfectly.



No....Just...no


----------



## lewis

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> No....Just...no


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Where are these new BC rich's built?


----------



## jephjacques

Damon67 said:


> 190 pages, wow! It's been a while, here are some pics of 7s. Multiscales in a few days.



Love the shape, hate all the binding and purfling


----------



## Carl Kolchak

soul_lip_mike said:


> Where are these new BC rich's built?


MIK I thought.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

So I just found out they made the ST in a 7 string with a Floyd in the 2000s, in white. They're impossible to find ofc but if anyone knows anything about them please let me know. I'd love to pick one up sometime.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

The custom shop order form is back up. Pretty impressive imo


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

TheBolivianSniper said:


> The custom shop order form is back up. Pretty impressive imo


No Draco option!?


----------



## Wyvern Claw

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> No Draco option!?


Apparently the Draco was a licensed shape that doesn't make enough financial sense for them to continue producing. Not sure who designed the shape or the specifics behind the licensing agreement, but I heard the CEO mention that.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Wyvern Claw said:


> Apparently the Draco was a licensed shape that doesn't make enough financial sense for them to continue producing. Not sure who designed the shape or the specifics behind the licensing agreement, but I heard the CEO mention that.


Rock Clouser designed it before he was fired by BC Rich so I hear


----------



## Damon67

Wyvern Claw said:


> For what it's worth to anyone here, I just got a new Warlock in today. The new BCR stuff is expensive, but even the older stuff doesn't seem to be going for much less these days, I frequently see the old NJ Deluxe Warlocks for sale for over $1000 on the used market.
> 
> Used to own a limited run Warlock from Korea (the BSM Warlock II if anyone remembers those) and later sold it to an ex. Just recently I borrowed it from her and did a bunch of work on it for her, and her dad has an NJ Deluxe Warlock I also restored for him. Fantastic guitars, but the new stuff really is better. Not by miles, and they do still have the odd little imperfections, but at least mine has nothing that affects playability whatsoever. Just tiny cosmetic stuff that I also found on my Korean Ormsby Hype GTR in the same price range. Here's my ex's Warlock, her dad's NJ, and my new Extreme series for reference.





If anyone from SSO wants one of these Black Cherry beauties, I'll do 'em at 20% off. I have 10 in stock to choose from.


----------



## Damon67

Just in...
#fannedfretfriday


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Aesthetically I like all of those, but I'm not sure how I feel about the bass side of the pup being so far away from the saddles. Still, I want that top middle one.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Damon67 said:


> If anyone from SSO wants one of these Black Cherry beauties, I'll do 'em at 20% off. I have 10 in stock to choose from.


Nice.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Damon67 said:


> Just in...
> #fannedfretfriday


Kinda strange. Some have 25, and some have part of a 26th fret.


----------



## spudmunkey

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Kinda strange. Some have 25, and some have part of a 26th fret.



Looks like 6-string vs 7-string, but I'm to tired to think about the math.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Damon67 said:


> If anyone from SSO wants one of these Black Cherry beauties, I'll do 'em at 20% off. I have 10 in stock to choose from.



Do you run a shop? I"m guessing sponsor rules won't let you link here but if so can you PM me your shop info?


----------



## Carl Kolchak

What were the best production runs of BCRs year-wise?


----------



## Rosal76

Wyvern Claw said:


> Not sure who designed the shape...





DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Rock Clouser designed it before he was fired by BC Rich so I hear



IMHO, I think B.C. Rich took the idea and/or were inspired from ex-Deicide guitarist, Brian Hoffman's V guitar.

* Just to be clear. I'm just speculating.

Anyways, I found it very coincidental that Brian Hoffman announces that he designed/built a new, V shaped guitar..., and then a few months later, B.C. Rich comes out with their Draco. B.C. Rich had good success with the Beast shape, designed by Brian, and maybe they thought that if they released their Draco, it too, would be successful like the Beast shape.

Below is the V guitar designed/built by Brian.






A few months later, B.C. Rich came out with their Draco.






Again, I'm just speculating and this is just my own personal opinion. It's possible that B.C. Rich did design their Draco without ever seeing Brian's V.


----------



## Damon67

soul_lip_mike said:


> Do you run a shop? I"m guessing sponsor rules won't let you link here but if so can you PM me your shop info?



Guilty... Red Blanket Guitars is my place. The 6 authorized online retailers for BC Rich are on the bottom of their 'find a dealer' page... just click on the Doubleneck Bich. bcrich.com/dealers

Just got 80 guitars in with another 80 on the way. The site should be up-to-date with new arrivals within the week.


----------



## Damon67

Rosal76 said:


> IMHO, I think B.C. Rich took the idea and/or were inspired from ex-Deicide guitarist, Brian Hoffman's V guitar.
> 
> * Just to be clear. I'm just speculating.
> 
> Anyways, I found it very coincidental that Brian Hoffman announces that he designed/built a new, V shaped guitar..., and then a few months later, B.C. Rich comes out with their Draco. B.C. Rich had good success with the Beast shape, designed by Brian, and maybe they thought that if they released their Draco, it too, would be successful like the Beast shape.
> 
> Below is the V guitar designed/built by Brian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few months later, B.C. Rich came out with their Draco.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I'm just speculating and this is just my own personal opinion. It's possible that B.C. Rich did design their Draco without ever seeing Brian's V.


I love Vs, had mine for 37 years now, but neither of those do anything for me personally.


----------



## Hollowway

Damon67 said:


> Guilty... Red Blanket Guitars is my place. The 6 authorized online retailers for BC Rich are on the bottom of their 'find a dealer' page... just click on the Doubleneck Bich. bcrich.com/dealers
> 
> Just got 80 guitars in with another 80 on the way. The site should be up-to-date with new arrivals within the week.



Still getting those Shredzilla 8s with Floyd in? Or did that ship already sail?


----------



## Damon67

Hollowway said:


> Still getting those Shredzilla 8s with Floyd in? Or did that ship already sail?



Just sold the last one we had in stock, but more are on the way.


----------



## odibrom

Shit man, those are hot, a bit over the top in the finish, but cool looking...


----------



## JimF

Love that trans dark red finish on the bottom one. There's just something about this shape that looks off to me that I cant _quite_ put my finger on.


----------



## manu80

Horns a bit too long/thin maybe ?


----------



## Nicki

JimF said:


> Love that trans dark red finish on the bottom one. There's just something about this shape that looks off to me that I cant _quite_ put my finger on.


For me, what looks off about them is that the two horns are set at such an aggressive angle that it looks like the butt of the body should be at a similar offset angle, similar to the Chris Broderick soloist.

Girl's got a flat ass.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

JimF said:


> Love that trans dark red finish on the bottom one. There's just something about this shape that looks off to me that I cant _quite_ put my finger on.


The top horn protrudes too far forward and covers too much real estate on the upper register of the fretboard.


----------



## JimF

Yes!
Its the top horn and also the flat ass. Either slanted like the Broderick or even just rounder in general would probably make more sense to me. But I'm not exactly in the market for one so my opinion is meaningless!


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

Those bridge pickups on the multiscales.....


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Anyone know of any b stocks floating around? The ST supply is literally fuckin dry, there's not a one to be found and buying one of those suckers new is a month's worth of rent and electric.


----------



## musicaldeath

Still waiting on an Ignitor. Doesn't need to be fancy (preferably not gaudy). 6 string, solid colour (black, some neon eye bleeding colour - don't care). 24 frets, trem. Good to go.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

musicaldeath said:


> Still waiting on an Ignitor. Doesn't need to be fancy (preferably not gaudy). 6 string, solid colour (black, some neon eye bleeding colour - don't care). 24 frets, trem. Good to go.



I really, really don't think you'll ever see this guitar outside of the custom shop. That seems to be on purpose.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Welp I just got a stupid deal on an ST, looks the same as my current. I literally can't be disappointed.


----------



## musicaldeath

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I really, really don't think you'll ever see this guitar outside of the custom shop. That seems to be on purpose.



Probably right. Also means I will never get one, which I guess is ok too.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

musicaldeath said:


> Probably right. Also means I will never get one, which I guess is ok too.


It sucks because after doing some brief research, they did do a small run of them in the early-mid '90s. Not sure why they pulled them off the market.


----------



## bloodjunkie

Edika said:


> Will they just fucking release the one hum Ironbirds and see the cash flow? Everytime I see this thread updated I open the page and see one uninteresting guitar after the other.


+666.666


----------



## jco5055

Has anyone here actually played a custom shop model since the FFDP ownership? Curious if they’re any good; Chondro guitars in Wisconsin has a Warlock but I won’t be making that trip anytime soon thanks to COVID.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Rosal76 said:


> IMHO, I think B.C. Rich took the idea and/or were inspired from ex-Deicide guitarist, Brian Hoffman's V guitar.
> 
> * Just to be clear. I'm just speculating.
> 
> Anyways, I found it very coincidental that Brian Hoffman announces that he designed/built a new, V shaped guitar..., and then a few months later, B.C. Rich comes out with their Draco. B.C. Rich had good success with the Beast shape, designed by Brian, and maybe they thought that if they released their Draco, it too, would be successful like the Beast shape.
> 
> Below is the V guitar designed/built by Brian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few months later, B.C. Rich came out with their Draco.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I'm just speculating and this is just my own personal opinion. It's possible that B.C. Rich did design their Draco without ever seeing Brian's V.



Rock said he himself designed the Draco. I wonder if that was what got him shit canned lol


----------



## spudmunkey

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CHioT-CHL4m/?igshid=16xk769iy4s0u

BC Rich CEO will be joining Hernan Li's twitch stream later, with some new models apparently, also a fluence pickup giveaway.

Edit: oh...apparently is started 40 mins ago. *facepalm*


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

7 string ironbird got a thumbs up on an Instagram post and they tend to use that as a big platform for whatever reason sooooo


Hype????


----------



## works0fheart

spudmunkey said:


> https://www.instagram.com/reel/CHioT-CHL4m/?igshid=16xk769iy4s0u
> 
> BC Rich CEO will be joining Hernan Li's twitch stream later, with some new models apparently, also a fluence pickup giveaway.
> 
> Edit: oh...apparently is started 40 mins ago. *facepalm*



Caught this earlier. Actually a pretty solid guest appearance. Seems like a pretty cool guy with a lot of passion for guitars. Here's the clip of it anyone is interested, but it's unfortunately for subscribers only.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/801875867


----------



## Merrekof

Carl Kolchak said:


> Great. More ss shaped 7-strings. Just what the world needs....


My thoughts exactly..


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Just thought I'd put this here


----------



## Merrekof

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Just thought I'd put this here


Dang! Still needs a pointy headstock though


----------



## Edika

She's been rocking that bass (or at least that shape) for decades now!


----------



## zappatton2

When are we finally gonna get a Bo Bench sig? Waaaay overdue IMO.


----------



## Rosal76

TheBolivianSniper said:


> 7 string ironbird got a thumbs up on an Instagram post and they tend to use that as a big platform for whatever reason sooooo
> 
> Hype????



If it looks like this, yes, I would be very, very hyped. I'm window shopping for a new 7 string guitar and always look to Ibanez 7 strings because that's what I already own/play. But..., if B.C. Rich releases a 7 string Ironbird and for my love for weird guitar shapes, I may purchase it. Depending on how it looks, of course.


----------



## maliciousteve

Rosal76 said:


> If it looks like this, yes, I would be very, very hyped. I'm window shopping for a new 7 string guitar and always look to Ibanez 7 strings because that's what I already own/play. But..., if B.C. Rich releases a 7 string Ironbird and for my love for weird guitar shapes, I may purchase it. Depending on how it looks, of course.



Let's face it. This looks like one of the coolest 7 string metal guitars ever, so the current BC Rich won't make it. It'll have to be smothered in abalone with a side of Monster.


----------



## works0fheart

I don't know about all that. The guys there, like many other companies are just trying to go for what was popular for a while. Natural woods and in general blinged-out non-sense was the craze for several years, and this forum for damned sure was no exception in hyping it up. By the time standard black guitars and simplistic designs start getting put out again, it won't be popular with the forum nerds anymore, again, and the big companies will have to do a 180 on their designs, again, rinse/repeat for forever trying to keep up with what's "in" at the moment.


----------



## Bdtunn

They just said on Instagram that iron birds and warlocks will be available in 7’s!


----------



## Bdtunn




----------



## TheBolivianSniper

You know maybe they realize they can make a shit ton of money if they don't just make superstrats like everyone else. The new prophecy stuff looks great and is apparently due out soon, plus 7 string pointy things? I'm starting to think they've got their head on straight finally. 


And please stealth extreme when 

I need a floyd stealth


----------



## Mathemagician

Any word on 7’s not being 25.5?


----------



## Merrekof

TheBolivianSniper said:


> You know maybe they realize they can make a shit ton of money if they don't just make superstrats like everyone else. The new prophecy stuff looks great and is apparently due out soon, plus 7 string pointy things? I'm starting to think they've got their head on straight finally.
> 
> 
> And please stealth extreme when
> 
> I need a floyd stealth



This is what I've said several times on this thread. At least a Warlock 7 should've been there at the launch.


----------



## Edika

I understand that the pandemic has slowed things down significanlty and while optimistic about the 7 string Ironbird and Warlocks, I'll believe it when I see the non blink Ironbords come out for sale. So far after the first wave of blinked out guitars and a few more normal looking guitars, the only thing we've got is promo photos and nothing else.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Edika said:


> I understand that the pandemic has slowed things down significanlty and while optimistic about the 7 string Ironbird and Warlocks, I'll believe it when I see the non blink Ironbords come out for sale. So far after the first wave of blinked out guitars and a few more normal looking guitars, the only thing we've got is promo photos and nothing else.



The dude from RBG said they're 90 days out about a month ago, so I guess we'll see in the new year.


----------



## Edika

MaxOfMetal said:


> The dude from RBG said they're 90 days out about a month ago, so I guess we'll see in the new year.



Damn I missed that! Thanks Max!


----------



## Viginez

Bdtunn said:


> They just said on Instagram that iron birds and warlocks will be available in 7’s!


big win if the ironbird has the reversed headstock


----------



## JimF

I think a basic spec Ironbird 7 (basic as in solid colour, no binding, no albalone etc) with a 26.5"+ scale length would seriously tempt me. Even though I don't need another 7 and its a bit showy for a house-guitar. Still...


----------



## Carl Kolchak

JimF said:


> I think a basic spec Ironbird 7 (basic as in solid colour, no binding, no albalone etc) with a 26.5"+ scale length would seriously tempt me. Even though I don't need another 7 and its a bit showy for a house-guitar. Still...


Same. Make me a plainly finished Warlock with a 26.5" scale and a TOM bridge and I will buy it. Done deal.


----------



## jonsick

They teased a green warlock not too long ago. That would definitely have my money if they actually do it.


----------



## jonsick

Mathemagician said:


> Any word on 7’s not being 25.5?


I kinda hope they do two versions. I can't play baritone scale lengths and 25.5" is really my limit with 7 strings. But I appreciate it's a winner for others. I'd be happy with the option dependent on series maybe?


----------



## Damon67

Rosal76 said:


> If it looks like this, yes, I would be very, very hyped. I'm window shopping for a new 7 string guitar and always look to Ibanez 7 strings because that's what I already own/play. But..., if B.C. Rich releases a 7 string Ironbird and for my love for weird guitar shapes, I may purchase it. Depending on how it looks, of course.



This is a custom shop build and is 100% available right now if you have the $. If you want an import with these cuts and the big lipstick logo... ain't gonna happen. Never has, never will. The short stint where a money grubbing owner put "R"s on import headstocks, will not happen again either... not under current ownership. If you want the really cool USA ones, you gotta pay the piper.


----------



## Damon67

MaxOfMetal said:


> The dude from RBG said they're 90 days out about a month ago, so I guess we'll see in the new year.


The RBG Dude says, "we're still on track to get them by Christmas"


----------



## Damon67

Enough words...


----------



## Damon67

If you didn't like that top, no worries...


----------



## Damon67

Personally, I dig the black


----------



## Damon67

6's too


----------



## eggy in a bready

can someone please explain the extremely liberal use of abalone binding? my fucking eyes


----------



## Samark

Some natural binding and this would be a winner in their new line up


----------



## JimF

I'd prefer more switching options to be honest


----------



## _MonSTeR_

eggy in a bready said:


> can someone please explain the extremely liberal use of abalone binding? my fucking eyes



I love abalone purfling!!! But I hate spalted maple and am not fond of burl...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Damon67 said:


> The RBG Dude says, "we're still on track to get them by Christmas"


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

JimF said:


> I'd prefer more switching options to be honest


This! But make all the knobs chicken head style.


----------



## Hollowway

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I love abalone purfling!!! But I hate spalted maple and am not fond of burl...


----------



## Randy

I'm not usually put off by mismatched pickup and bridge angles but that combo of especially jarring.


----------



## spudmunkey

I was curious about just how angled the bridge pickup was to the bridge, compared to something like a Strat. 

Here's what I found:



Note: I don't actually have any take-aways from this. Just thought I'd share what I just measured, in case anyone else found it interesting/useful.


----------



## works0fheart

The guy spoke on this subject the other day in Herman Li's interview. Apparently they had it in several different positions where it would typically be and it just didn't sound right so this is what they settled on being the most ideal tone wise.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

Hollowway said:


> View attachment 87210



Completely serious!

Probably because my grandfather was a cabinet maker, who spent a lot of time on marquetry and stuff and I’m old and grew up with purfling being something associated with expensive woodworking and spalting just being associated with bad wood.


----------



## possumkiller

I knew it! Reverse pointy inline is best with multiscale! I'm looking at you, ESP with your freakin 1000 series M multiscales that quite stupidly have a non-reversed Vintage S headstock!


----------



## twguitar

Been meaning to post this here for a few weeks now. Picked up a 2018/2019 Custom Shop build by Ron Estrada recently and dear god this is an incredible instrument. Im not overly keen on the route some of the import are going but the custom shop is killing it, cant recommend it enough. Anyway here's the guitar.... similar to the old SL specs but a few key features that made me jump on it. The proper El Monte carve rather than TJ the SL's used, deep bevels and a slimmer body than you typically see on the Floyd builds getting closer to the originals, real Moser electronics and a pretty amazing slab of maple. The top on this is LP thick and with the mahogany neck/wings makes a nice contrast to my other BCRs. Not to mention that Ron keeps building guitars for the man in the Tophat so you can take that as a sign of the quality.













IMG_5431



__ twguitar
__ Nov 21, 2020


----------



## Carl Kolchak

twguitar said:


> Been meaning to post this here for a few weeks now. Picked up a 2018/2019 Custom Shop build by Ron Estrada recently and dear god this is an incredible instrument. Im not overly keen on the route some of the import are going but the custom shop is killing it, cant recommend it enough. Anyway here's the guitar.... similar to the old SL specs but a few key features that made me jump on it. The proper El Monte carve rather than TJ the SL's used, deep bevels and a slimmer body than you typically see on the Floyd builds getting closer to the originals, real Moser electronics and a pretty amazing slab of maple. The top on this is LP thick and with the mahogany neck/wings makes a nice contrast to my other BCRs. Not to mention that Ron keeps building guitars for the man in the Tophat so you can take that as a sign of the quality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_5431
> 
> 
> 
> __ twguitar
> __ Nov 21, 2020


I've got to ask, what do all those switches actually do?


----------



## zappatton2

twguitar said:


> Been meaning to post this here for a few weeks now. Picked up a 2018/2019 Custom Shop build by Ron Estrada recently and dear god this is an incredible instrument. Im not overly keen on the route some of the import are going but the custom shop is killing it, cant recommend it enough. Anyway here's the guitar.... similar to the old SL specs but a few key features that made me jump on it. The proper El Monte carve rather than TJ the SL's used, deep bevels and a slimmer body than you typically see on the Floyd builds getting closer to the originals, real Moser electronics and a pretty amazing slab of maple. The top on this is LP thick and with the mahogany neck/wings makes a nice contrast to my other BCRs. Not to mention that Ron keeps building guitars for the man in the Tophat so you can take that as a sign of the quality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_5431
> 
> 
> 
> __ twguitar
> __ Nov 21, 2020


Simply stunning!


----------



## zappatton2

Carl Kolchak said:


> I've got to ask, what do all those switches actually do?


 If I remember correctly, volume, tone, boost volume and varitone as the knobs and chickenhead, 3-way pickup toggle, and boost, out-of-phase and two series/parallel as the mini-toggles.


----------



## twguitar

Carl Kolchak said:


> I've got to ask, what do all those switches actually do?


You have a phase switch, a series/parallel for each pickup which is your single coil sound. Then you’ve got the preamp boost which is fun to play about with. Honestly 99% of the time I don’t touch the circuit on my guitars but it’s as much a part of the look as the shape for me.


----------



## DeathCubeK

I don't really understand all the fanned fret models. As I understand it, doesn't the Evertune bridge negate the need for a fanned fret? If so, why not just install those?


----------



## odibrom

The Evertune bridge has a different purpose than the fanned fret. The bridge is meant to keep the guitar in tune, regardless of weather conditions. The fanned fret layout has several purposes: ergonomics, a more balanced string tension across the strings and better tone between the higher and the lower strings, almost like an harp or a piano or other stringed instruments...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

DeathCubeK said:


> I don't really understand all the fanned fret models. As I understand it, doesn't the Evertune bridge negate the need for a fanned fret? If so, why not just install those?



A fanned fret does more than tuning/intonation stability. It's also a tonal/playing benefit. You can have the long-ass scale and extra tension on the low strings to make the sound clearer and tighter, while still having the shorter scale on the high strings for ease of playing (less stretching, less tension, etc). 



Randy said:


> I'm not usually put off by mismatched pickup and bridge angles but that combo of especially jarring.



Yeeeah I'm not a fan. I remember someone saying they probably did it to offset the added brightness/cut due to the extended scale on the low strings, and I'm thinking... Then why even have the extended scale in the first place?


----------



## Rosal76

Thought some of you guys who like 7 string Ironbirds may enjoy this one. According to the seller, Chondro guitars, it is a 2020 model. The MSRP is $6,000 but they did state that there will be a Black Friday discount.







For those interested/curious, the guitar is not on their webstore, yet, but you can find it on their Facebook page, which is Chondro Guitars. They say they will have the guitar by Black Friday.


----------



## Andromalia

Rosal76 said:


> The MSRP is $6,000 but they did state that there will be a Black Friday discount.



Again ? Run to the hills.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Andromalia said:


> Again ? Run to the hills.



Bernie Rico lives beyond the grave.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Ironbird with a Beast headstock looks right. I wished they'd make the WidowBeast headstock available on production line models. Then again they only ever show up on Pat O'Brien's customs.


----------



## zappatton2

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Ironbird with a Beast headstock looks right. I wished they'd make the WidowBeast headstock available on production line models. Then again they only ever show up on Pat O'Brien's customs.


I do like the hybrid headstock, more than the regular Widow or Beast HS, I do hope it becomes a thing.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Anyone watch the video the CEO did with Herman Li? They're giving him a shit ton of info and that guy can actually play pretty well. He seems really knowledgeable and knowing that he did a lot of work on the Wolfgang and 5150 stuff for Peavey makes me feel good about the brand. He said January for the cheaper stuff and it's sounding pretty solid honestly. They just need to get into the budget range and keep their QC up bc I've heard great things but also that it's a little spotty. Apparently they're selling a shit ton of stuff though and I never see them on the used market so I guess they're doing well? Hopefully it sticks around.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Anyone watch the video the CEO did with Herman Li? They're giving him a shit ton of info and that guy can actually play pretty well. He seems really knowledgeable and knowing that he did a lot of work on the Wolfgang and 5150 stuff for Peavey makes me feel good about the brand. He said January for the cheaper stuff and it's sounding pretty solid honestly. They just need to get into the budget range and keep their QC up bc I've heard great things but also that it's a little spotty. Apparently they're selling a shit ton of stuff though and I never see them on the used market so I guess they're doing well? Hopefully it sticks around.



I watched the video and it was really cool...and then I was unfortunate enough to read the comment section.

It's 2020 and people are still complaining about BC Rich shapes as if they just came out this year. Someone said they need to "move on" to more "classy" shapes and that the Shredzilla was a step in the right direction.

Sooo...in other words you're pissed at a company for having shapes all their own and you'd like to see them have the exact same shapes as everyone else....


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I watched the video and it was really cool...and then I was unfortunate enough to read the comment section.
> 
> It's 2020 and people are still complaining about BC Rich shapes as if they just came out this year. Someone said they need to "move on" to more "classy" shapes and that the Shredzilla was a step in the right direction.
> 
> Sooo...in other words you're pissed at a company for having shapes all their own and you'd like to see them have the exact same shapes as everyone else....



Ok, the warlock and beast and ironbird might be much, but mockingbirds and stealths are classy as HELL. All sleek bevels and curves, really comfy and extreme but not aggressive or tacky at all. I think the stealth is the most modern X type out there and the bird has yet to have any competition.


----------



## Mathemagician

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I watched the video and it was really cool...and then I was unfortunate enough to read the comment section.
> 
> It's 2020 and people are still complaining about BC Rich shapes as if they just came out this year. Someone said they need to "move on" to more "classy" shapes and that the Shredzilla was a step in the right direction.
> 
> Sooo...in other words you're pissed at a company for having shapes all their own and you'd like to see them have the exact same shapes as everyone else....



I mean BCR gave them the shredzilla. How many slight variations on a super stray were they expecting? 

Also I feel like that “virgin” shape with a slightly smaller body/smaller horns would make a really nice alternative to a more tradition SG/Viper shape.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Mathemagician said:


> I mean BCR gave them the shredzilla. How many slight variations on a super stray were they expecting?
> 
> Also I feel like that “virgin” shape with a slightly smaller body/smaller horns would make a really nice alternative to a more tradition SG/Viper shape.



The way I see it:

Virgin = SG
Mockingbird and Eagle = Les Paul
Beast = Explorer
Dagger = ES
Warlock and Beast V = ML
Exclusive = DC
Speed V and Jr V = old school Gibson V, newer Gibson V


----------



## Mathemagician

Stealth = warrior.


----------



## Hollowway

The Bich is a cool shape, too. I don’t think it’s particularly aggressive, like the warlock. The Bich and Mockingbird are two of my favorite all time shapes. And the 10 string Bich, with those tail end tuners, is one of the coolest guitars ever.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Mathemagician said:


> Stealth = warrior.


Ignitor and Stealth = Warrior


----------



## Rosal76

Thought some of guys who like B.C. Rich, Jr. V guitars may like this one. It's a 2020 model and also from Chondro guitars, the same store that has the 7 string Ironbird I posted last month.







The back of the neck is pretty cool looking.






And for the Stealth guitar fans. Also a 2020, U.S. custom shop model. This guitar is from Red Blanket guitars.






Reminds me a lot of the Stealth import B.C. Rich released many years ago.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Their Vs are confusing. I think the Pat O'Brien and Kerry King Vs are the Speed V..which I prefer. The Jr. V looks weird to me. BC Rich never really explains the V differences or even acknowledges that there are two different types all that much.


----------



## Rosal76

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Their Vs are confusing. I think the Pat O'Brien and Kerry King Vs are the Speed V..which I prefer. The Jr. V looks weird to me. BC Rich never really explains the V differences or even acknowledges that there are two different types all that much.



And to add to the confusion... According to B.C. Rich expert/historian, Matt Touchard, there are, I believe 6 different Mockingbird shapes. I thought there was only 2. The short horn/rare models and the regular models that you see Slash from Guns n' roses owns/plays. I'm still waiting for his (Matt Touchard) B.C. Rich book to come out so I can be more confused. LOL.

I also prefer the Speed V over the Jr. V.

You may like this story. In 1999, I talked to someone at the B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop when they were still in California. I had to ask him some questions regarding my first U.S. custom shop, Warlock. But anyways, Pat O'Brien and his V guitars were brought up. According to what he told me, Pat wanted B.C. Rich to make the points on his 7 string, Jr. V longer so they obliged. More B.C. Rich shape confusion for the books. LOL.

IMHO, in this old picture of Pat's first 3 B.C. Rich guitars, the horns on the 7 string, Jr. V don't look any longer than the Jr. V with the red bevels because I would think the horns (7 string) would be closer to the ground. But the employee I talked to at B.C. Rich was very specific and detailed about it.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Rosal76 said:


> And to add to the confusion... According to B.C. Rich expert/historian, Matt Touchard, there are, I believe 6 different Mockingbird shapes. I thought there was only 2. The short horn/rare models and the regular models that you see Slash from Guns n' roses owns/plays. I'm still waiting for his (Matt Touchard) B.C. Rich book to come out so I can be more confused. LOL.
> 
> I also prefer the Speed V over the Jr. V.
> 
> You may like this story. In 1999, I talked to someone at the B.C. Rich, U.S. custom shop when they were still in California. I had to ask him some questions regarding my first U.S. custom shop, Warlock. But anyways, Pat O'Brien and his V guitars were brought up. According to what he told me, Pat wanted B.C. Rich to make the points on his 7 string, Jr. V longer so they obliged. More B.C. Rich shape confusion for the books. LOL.
> 
> IMHO, in this old picture of Pat's first 3 B.C. Rich guitars, the horns on the 7 string, Jr. V don't look any longer than the Jr. V with the red bevels because I would think the horns (7 string) would be closer to the ground. But the employee I talked to at B.C. Rich was very specific and detailed about it.


THANK YOU!

I was always confused by Pat's guitars because they look bigger than the normal Jr. V. I thought he had speed Vs but his bend at the tips like the Jr..but his Jrs look a lot bigger. I figured either he's a small guy or the guitars are different.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Anyone see the sorta leak on the website? Lists specs for Indonesian prophecy stuff, still neck through, single pickup with USA dimarzios and a floyd 1000. $900 new. I think they just saved the whole company if the QC is good


----------



## JimF

Great find!
I've screengrabbed TheBolivianSniper's info below... It does sound promising...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Red Blanket did say these were to show up around Christmas. He's been spot on, and here we are.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> Red Blanket did say these were to show up around Christmas. He's been spot on, and here we are.



BTW, this is unrelated to anything but I figure this is a good a place as any to post. I like when you post stuff. You seem to always know a lot about damn near everything and your posts always teach me a thing or two. Thanks for that. I appreciate it.


----------



## iff

From an Instagram post about the Ironbirds:


> BC Rich fans know that this is the import cut (the back of the top horn is round) - but there will be one with the sharp MK1 cut most likely made in Japan.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> BTW, this is unrelated to anything but I figure this is a good a place as any to post. I like when you post stuff. You seem to always know a lot about damn near everything and your posts always teach me a thing or two. Thanks for that. I appreciate it.


----------



## JimF

Also looks like the green superstrat in the video is the Gunslinger Prophecy prototype. Matches the speclist above to a tee. Looks good!


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Pictures of the 3 prophecy models are up


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

There's also going to be a black one.

Also they're bringing back the original Gunslinger, but as a limited edition.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's also going to be a black one.
> 
> Also they're bringing back the original Gunslinger, but as a limited edition.



I like it. What competition does it have besides half dead Kramer stuff? At that price it beats pro series Jackson and Charvel, plus the super thin neck and neck carve mean it's got the shred crowd in addition to the traditional superstrat audience. Assuming the Indo QC is good, which it could be if it's anything close to Ibanez Premium, it could make a shit ton of money. Company making more good decisions.


----------



## BusinessMan

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's also going to be a black one.
> 
> Also they're bringing back the original Gunslinger, but as a limited edition.



I like these. The green one is sick. Now if they made a 7 in these...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

BusinessMan said:


> I like these. The green one is sick. Now if they made a 7 in these...



I didn't know I wanted this.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

BusinessMan said:


> I like these. The green one is sick. Now if they made a 7 in these...



They honestly might, apparently 7 string warlocks and ironbirds are planned soon af and they say this is the gunslinger evolution so it would only make sense


----------



## Carl Kolchak

I will buy a 7 string Warlock regardless.


----------



## groverj3

This might be the first time I've ever had GAS for a BCR.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

BC Rich *makes unique guitars of all shapes and styles, even their own new strat shape*
SSO:








BC Rich *makes the exact same goddamn superstrat as a million other companies*
SSO:


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

groverj3 said:


> This might be the first time I've ever had GAS for a BCR.



Welcome to my plane of existence, where the only GAS that exists is for BCR. So little money, so many warbeasts I can't afford.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Are BCR MII now?


----------



## possumkiller

Carl Kolchak said:


> Are BCR MII now?


Everything is MII now.


----------



## Vyn

possumkiller said:


> Everything is MII now.



If it's around the $1000 mark, it's MII these days, heck even up to $1500 is MII.


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Vyn said:


> If it's around the $1000 mark, it's MII these days, heck even up to $1500 is MII.


This is troubling to say the least. I'd assumed that their 1.5K-1.6K Extreme line was MIK, but now that I'm seeing these $900 Gunslingers, Ironbirds, and Warlocks I suddenly have a very bad feeling concerning those 7-string Warlocks.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Carl Kolchak said:


> This is troubling to say the least. I'd assumed that their 1.5K-1.6K Extreme line was MIK, but now that I'm seeing these $900 Gunslingers, Ironbirds, and Warlocks I suddenly have a very bad feeling concerning those 7-string Warlocks.



Last I heard the higher end stuff is Korea, it's just this new stuff is Indonesia.


----------



## lewis

these new Warlock prophecy's are the best warlocks ever made imo


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

lewis said:


> these new Warlock prophecy's are the best warlocks ever made imo


Best ever yet built


----------



## lewis

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Best ever yet built


100% I should have added "visually"

Could easily be built like potatoes.


----------



## Church2224

Just getting into this thread more. The new Prophecy Models look great. liking the Warlock. I may need to get the Legacy Stealth too.

Does anyone know what their Custom Shop is doing and what their price range it? A friend of mine and I were taking a look at them and coming up with ideas


----------



## Carl Kolchak

Church2224 said:


> Just getting into this thread more. The new Prophecy Models look great. liking the Warlock. I may need to get the Legacy Stealth too.
> 
> Does anyone know what their Custom Shop is doing and what their price range it? A friend of mine and I were taking a look at them and coming up with ideas


The custom shop stuff I've been seeing lately seems to be in the 4K-6K range.


----------



## Church2224

Carl Kolchak said:


> The custom shop stuff I've been seeing lately seems to be in the 4K-6K range.



Thanks, but damn there are some other guitars for less I want in that range. That said I will keep an eye out on the pricing and see what comes up.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's also going to be a black one.
> 
> Also they're bringing back the original Gunslinger, but as a limited edition.


Why would we want a Gunslinger when we've got the SHREDZILLA!? Of course it's only a ltd edition.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Getting a strat from BC Rich is like going to a whore house for a game of cards


----------



## spudmunkey

That sounds like a blast.


----------



## mlp187

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Getting a strat from BC Rich is like going to a whore house for a game of cards


So like, a super great idea?


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

mlp187 said:


> So like, a super great idea?


Shut up, Meg.


----------



## Damon67

Carl Kolchak said:


> I've got to ask, what do all those switches actually do?



On Slash's guitars.... nothing. Only volume/tone and pickup toggle are wired in, and passive. His term is blocked so it only goes down, and it has the same custom shop duncans that his LPs have.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Whats that clear goo on the pot?


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

soul_lip_mike said:


> Whats that clear goo on the pot?


You know wtf dat is....


----------



## Damon67

soul_lip_mike said:


> Whats that clear goo on the pot?



Varitone spoodge


----------



## mogar

single hum, neck-thru ironbird with a floyd.... fuck


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

those fuckers better be announced soon as hell, paging the guy at red blanket


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

TheBolivianSniper said:


>



Nice! But I do hope they don't swap the Kahler with a Floyd.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

That headstock looks better than the one that's at a 45 degree angle.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Celtic Frosted Flakes said:


> Nice! But I do hope they don't swap the Kahler with a Floyd.



seeing as though Dean's fucking with kahlers now they might be starting production up heavy again for OEMs and from the facebook group (not the shitty one) it sounds like Bill Xavier and Zoltan are really well read on all the BCR history and construction, I think it's extremely likely that these new things are spec for spec accurate modernizations of the old NJ stuff, minus the janky shit like Bendmasters and their shitty 2 point trems


----------



## zappatton2

TheBolivianSniper said:


> those fuckers better be announced soon as hell, paging the guy at red blanket


----------



## JimF

TheBolivianSniper said:


> those fuckers better be announced soon as hell, paging the guy at red blanket



Is the rear upper horn shorter or is it the angle of the pic?


----------



## gunshow86de

Ironbird gas intensifies (that Stealth is pretty nice too).


----------



## cardinal

Actual serious question: is this BC Rich actually still making and delivering guitars or just talking on Instagram about doing that?

I see only one Reverb listing of a Floyd Shredzilla 8 in the US. Maybe that's not a high volume model, but seems weird? Maybe not idk.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

cardinal said:


> Actual serious question: is this BC Rich actually still making and delivering guitars or just talking on Instagram about doing that?
> 
> I see only one Reverb listing of a Floyd Shredzilla 8 in the US. Maybe that's not a high volume model, but seems weird? Maybe not idk.



Seems like not a bunch of dealers are getting inventory. 

Looks like Red Blanket Guitars (@Damon67) has them available. He seems to have the Bat Phone to BCR on these, so maybe he'll chime in with more info.


----------



## gunch

Covid supply chain shenanigans are probably effecting 5FDRich as much as anyone else


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunch said:


> Covid supply chain shenanigans are probably effecting 5FDRich as much as anyone else


And people wonder why some manufactures aren't showing off 2021 models yet.


----------



## gunch

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And people wonder why some manufactures aren't showing off 2021 models yet.



where’s all the guitars, dude!?! 

Uhh guitar machine broke


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunch said:


> where’s all the guitars, dude!?!
> 
> Uhh the planet broke



Fixed.


----------



## exo

I think availability is probably better than some folks are seeing, because my local GC (Mishawaka/South Bend IN) has a 6 string shredzilla extreme in their top row of guitar hangers.....and I don’t think this store is a high volume store that automatically gets all the new stuff......


----------



## siloshredder

Anyone know anything about custom shop quality\prices in 2021? Thinking of pulling the trigger on a simple Ironbird.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

siloshredder said:


> Anyone know anything about custom shop quality\prices in 2021? Thinking of pulling the trigger on a simple Ironbird.


Hope you got 4-5 grand laying around


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Chondro guitars confirmed the MK2 single hum floyd loaded ironbirds (lambo orange, candy apple red, gloss black, green pearl) are going to be 899 usd and made in Indonesia.


----------



## mogar

Solid friggin price. Now I got to decide between a green iron bird or a brandon ellis sig...


----------



## soul_lip_mike

This is pretty sick. Where are these built again?


----------



## lewis

soul_lip_mike said:


> This is pretty sick. Where are these built again?



I can already tell by looking at that its going to be over $2,000


----------



## lewis

cardinal said:


> Actual serious question: is this BC Rich actually still making and delivering guitars or just talking on Instagram about doing that?
> 
> I see only one Reverb listing of a Floyd Shredzilla 8 in the US. Maybe that's not a high volume model, but seems weird? Maybe not idk.


hahahahaahha

This!!!

Its like they like the idea of acting like a guitar company - more than they do actually being a guitar company hahaha


----------



## soul_lip_mike

lewis said:


> I can already tell by looking at that its going to be over $2,000



It's out of stock at red blanket but listed for under 2K. Can anyone @ mention the red blanket guy? (don't know his username)


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

lewis said:


> I can already tell by looking at that its going to be over $2,000


These are €1390 at Thomann, which translates to about $1500. Not too expensive.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

The Spanish Inquisition said:


> These are €1390 at Thomann, which translates to about $1500. Not too expensive.



Which is also on par with the other higher-end BCR imports.


----------



## electriceye

siloshredder said:


> Anyone know anything about custom shop quality\prices in 2021? Thinking of pulling the trigger on a simple Ironbird.



There’s a guy who posts a lot on IG who builds them (not for BCR). I would probably go that route instead off dealing with whatever incarnation BCR is this month. His username is jmlinstruments (No affiliation). He calls that model the “Doombird”


----------



## electriceye

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Getting a strat from BC Rich is like going to a whore house for a game of cards



Have you ever played an original Gunslinger or ST-III?


----------



## Mathemagician

KnightBrolaire said:


> Chondro guitars confirmed the MK2 single hum floyd loaded ironbirds (lambo orange, candy apple red, gloss black, green pearl) are going to be 899 usd and made in Indonesia.



*please have good QC. Please have good QC*


----------



## electriceye

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's also going to be a black one.
> 
> Also they're bringing back the original Gunslinger, but as a limited edition.



When they say “original,” is it going to be EXACTLY like the originals? Because the last round of Gunslingers were pieces of shit MIK that didn’t feel remotely close to the real deal (I had one for a few days and it was gr=a rage compared to my 86 Gunslinger. If they don’t have the exact neck profile and such, then they’re insulting buyers.


----------



## electriceye

Rosal76 said:


> Thought some of you guys who like 7 string Ironbirds may enjoy this one. According to the seller, Chondro guitars, it is a 2020 model. The MSRP is $6,000 but they did state that there will be a Black Friday discount.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those interested/curious, the guitar is not on their webstore, yet, but you can find it on their Facebook page, which is Chondro Guitars. They say they will have the guitar by Black Friday.





Samark said:


> Some natural binding and this would be a winner in their new line up
> 
> View attachment 87181
> View attachment 87182




The ASM was a missed opportunity, big time. To me, outside of the Gunuslinger, that was THE best S-style they ever made. But they only made a handful of them and the previous owners didn’t make them when the super start craze roared back and is still going (which is what I said when this thread was started many moons ago). I’m glad they don’t use that headstock shape, though, as I have a template of it and will use it on many of my own builds.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Mathemagician said:


> *please have good QC. Please have good QC*


I've heard not so great things about their recent korean stuff from owners, so I don't have terribly high hopes tbh.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

electriceye said:


> Have you ever played an original Gunslinger or ST-III?


No. Nor would I want to


----------



## Mathemagician

KnightBrolaire said:


> I've heard not so great things about their recent korean stuff from owners, so I don't have terribly high hopes tbh.



That’s unfortunate. I’ve played some of Jackson’s stuff out of China (crackle finishes) and have been pleasantly surprised. While not Indonesia is still typically the lower(est) end lines. So I guess we just wait until they get into stores.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

KnightBrolaire said:


> I've heard not so great things about their recent korean stuff from owners, so I don't have terribly high hopes tbh.



A lot of people on the Facebook group said that the ones they have are comparable to the old NJ Deluxe stuff that was really quality but they all needed setups and you shouldn't buy from Guitar Center. It's a mixed bag on store reviews so I'm inclined to believe they can make them well and they can be really worth the money, just play it first. I've been looking into getting one but the scarcity and price has really turned me off, but I haven't seen many used turn up and usually that's a good indicator they aren't worth keeping. 

Then again, some of those 1 star reviews are pretty damning.


----------



## electriceye

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> No. Nor would I want to



That’s too bad. Because you’d find out your comment was off the mark.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

electriceye said:


> That’s too bad. Because you’d find out your comment was off the mark.


Nah...statement still checks out


----------



## eggy in a bready

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Nah...statement still checks out


no, they're right. it's really dumb to shit on an og gunslinger, even dumber if you shit on them when you haven't even played one. they shred.

while BC is known for their wild shapes, they are (were?) also known for making killer guitars. that also rings true for their more conservative designs.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hehe, noobs thinking they can change @DrakkarTyrannis' view on super-Strats.

Men, the best have tried and failed.


----------



## eggy in a bready

hey, i'm with him. most super strats produced these days are straight up doo doo.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> Hehe, noobs thinking they can change @DrakkarTyrannis' view on super-Strats.
> 
> Men, the best have tried and failed.


People don't think it be like it is but it do.

Honestly I'm sure their super strats are great. That's not the issue.

My statement still stands. I don't go to B.C. Rich for a strat shape for the same reason I don't go to a steak house and order salad.


----------



## Hollowway

soul_lip_mike said:


> It's out of stock at red blanket but listed for under 2K. Can anyone @ mention the red blanket guy? (don't know his username)


@Damon67 is his name. He’s all knowing about the BCR stuff.


----------



## Damon67

lewis said:


> I can already tell by looking at that its going to be over $2,000


The spalted are $1399, the last one went a few weeks back.
The gloss black are $1299, I'll have more of those in a couple weeks.
We just had the USA Custom Shop build us one to spec, $5899. It lasted 3 days on the site... poof. Such a sweet guitar.


----------



## Damon67

soul_lip_mike said:


> This is pretty sick. Where are these built again?


WMI in Korea. $1399


----------



## Damon67

cardinal said:


> Actual serious question: is this BC Rich actually still making and delivering guitars or just talking on Instagram about doing that?
> 
> I see only one Reverb listing of a Floyd Shredzilla 8 in the US. Maybe that's not a high volume model, but seems weird? Maybe not idk.


Got the 'Sawzilla' a couple weeks back. We sold through over a dozen 8s with Floyds, not sure what other dealers did. To my knowledge, the Sawzilla is the only one available anywhere right now. someone had tucked it away at the warehouse. $1699


----------



## Damon67

Any Warlock fans?


----------



## manu80

some new models less expensive are appearing on thomann, 990 euros for an ironbird.


----------



## Viginez

manu80 said:


> some new models less expensive are appearing on thomann, 990 euros for an ironbird.


indeed.
the one pickup version made in indonesia

https://www.thomann.de/de/bc_rich_ironbird_prophecy_mk2_op.htm


----------



## MrWulf

Ngl i'd jump on a fixed bridge 7 Iron bird or Stealth. Otherwise i'mma have to save up money for a Balaguer Tartarus


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Damon67 said:


> The spalted are $1399, the last one went a few weeks back.



What's the deal with certain dealers showing that spalted stealth with pickups that have gold bars on them, but others are plain jane pickups with just dots? Despite that spalted being an import I fucking want one with the gold bars.


----------



## Damon67

soul_lip_mike said:


> What's the deal with certain dealers showing that spalted stealth with pickups that have gold bars on them, but others are plain jane pickups with just dots? Despite that spalted being an import I fucking want one with the gold bars.


It means the dealer is using old pictures and doesn't actually have one. There were a very few in the beginning... at the end of 2019. All have the rails now... X2N in bridge and D-ActivatorX for the neck


----------



## Damon67

manu80 said:


> some new models less expensive are appearing on thomann, 990 euros for an ironbird.


They're $899 USD in the states


----------



## electriceye

MaxOfMetal said:


> Hehe, noobs thinking they can change @DrakkarTyrannis' view on super-Strats.
> 
> Men, the best have tried and failed.



I’ve been on this board since before you were born, likely, so not a newbie.


----------



## Blurillaz

electriceye said:


> I’ve been on this board since before you were born, likely, so not a newbie.


you joined 6 years after him


----------



## lewis

Damon67 said:


> Any Warlock fans?



Oh sweet merciful christ...... :O 

I love the black hardtail with carbon fibre binding but this colour is absolutely smoking.
The added touches are a nice thing too.
Recessed/flush strap pins etc. So cool.

When the hell can we buy these things though? That black/red hardtail warlock has been out of stock for months.
Its only $800 too


----------



## Edika

A Lambo orange Ironbird appeared in a couple of shops as pre-order at £989 :/.

Now how $899 translates to £989 I don't know. I didn't expect the price to be like £700 but I was hoping it would be around at the £800-850. I mean the Jackson Kelly Brandon Ellis is £1099 or £1049 in one shop. I mean the Ironbird is cool and all but the Jackson is a lot more attractive. Or the LTD Black metal that will have stainless steel frets. I don't know though.


----------



## pahulkster

Stock X2N is bonkers. I like them for certain things but they absolutely slam the front of an amp. 

Fixed bridge Ironbird without all that binding would be my if only pick.


----------



## zappatton2

Man I really regret parting with my customs, there's no way I could afford what's coming out now. Though I have no doubt they're flawless works of art, seems to me back when I was first looking into custom BCRs in the late 90's, they might've set me back a grand, but now... That said, if I ever come into money through a random miracle, I've already got spreadsheets speced out on all the goodies I need in the wealthy version of my life.


----------



## Armitage




----------



## MFB

Well shit on a shingle if that ain't one of the best looking Warlocks I've ever laid eyes on. Personally, and I know this will be blasphemy to most, I would've preferred the inline headstock, but there's a symmetry to it with the Widow (or is it Beast, I don't know anymore) that I see why it gets the favor.


----------



## Ataraxia2320

MFB said:


> Well shit on a shingle if that ain't one of the best looking Warlocks I've ever laid eyes on. Personally, and I know this will be blasphemy to most, I would've preferred the inline headstock, but there's a symmetry to it with the Widow (or is it Beast, I don't know anymore) that I see why it gets the favor.



It's funny because most people I know would rag on me because I liked the widow headstock on the Warlock growing up. 

People who grew up in the sepultura era seem to prefer in line, while people who associate it with mick thompson seem to prefer the widow. 

I think they both look dope now.


----------



## cardinal

When they first started putting the Widow HS on the Warlocks, all my guitar buddies went crazy over it. It was THE coolest thing, and for a while the only way to get it was with a custom. Then they put it on every import Warlock imaginable, and folks started pining for the inline HS again. 

These days my fav is the trad 3x3 on a Warlock, but really any of them are fine. When the body looks like that, the headstock is sorta just background noise.


----------



## ExplorerMike

I started playing guitar in 2000 so I think that was right in the Widow headstock being on everything phase. I still have my Jr V with a Widow headstock and I love it. I did own a Warlock with an inline headstock and it was cool but I think I’m partial to the Widow just since that’s the era I came up in. And I agree I think Mick Thompson did a lot for the image at that time too.

Edit: I’ll add that black Warlock @Armitage posted above is sexy as hell.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Blurillaz said:


> you joined 6 years after him



This legit made me LOL.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Armitage said:


> View attachment 90382


Did they finally figure out how to release a guitar that wasn't ugly as sin and gaudy as fuck? Or is this a custom shop?


----------



## groverj3

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Did they finally figure out how to release a guitar that wasn't ugly as sin and gaudy as fuck? Or is this a custom shop?


Generally, it doesn't matter who owns them, BC Rich gonna BC Rich.


----------



## JimF

Has anyone played one of the Prophecy II guitars? I can't get those single hum Ironbirds out of my head. They don't seem to have landed anywhere yet though.


----------



## AngryPossum

Just bought this 2 weeks ago, it came from France, bought it on Reverb. $825. Out the door. It's mint. The Neck and Fretboard is like a 2x4. Not digging that feel. Im too used to my Les Paul 60s neck.


----------



## beerandbeards

So no Chuck Schuldiner reissue yet?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

beerandbeards said:


> So no Chuck Schuldiner reissue yet?


nope


----------



## MFB

But there IS a movement for one!


----------



## Merrekof

manu80 said:


> some new models less expensive are appearing on thomann, 990 euros for an ironbird.


Less than 1k and no abalone, oh boy!!



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> My statement still stands. I don't go to B.C. Rich for a strat shape for the same reason I don't go to a steak house and order salad.


EXACTLY.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Still waiting for one of those natural stealth’s with gold hardware to pop up in stock. Despite it being a cheap import I must have it.


----------



## Viginez

soul_lip_mike said:


> Still waiting for one of those natural stealth’s with gold hardware to pop up in stock. Despite it being a cheap import I must have it.


if it's your first stealth, expect the worst neckdive ever.


----------



## Marked Man

It took me nearly a year to track it down, but I picked up a current Legacy Bich, now wimpishly referred to as the "B" , but I refuse to call it by that name.

This is high quality stuff!!! I was an instant convert to the DiMarzio Deactivators, which I had no real world experience with before buying this guitar. They have savage top end and are solid everywhere else. The biggest surprise is that they clean up very well with coil splitting. This guitar has most of the onboard gadgets I wanted from the glory days:  Variac 5-position filter (use 1-2 for cleans, 5 for shred), coil splitting, phasing, and a real Quad bridge. Came stock with NYXL 9-42s, which I may change to 10-46 next time. If I felt the guitar needed it, I might add an EMG SPC, but these pickups are fine by themselves in this guitar. Very nice materials, hardware and craftsmanship, and it even comes setup for Schaller straplocks.


----------



## JimF

Marked Man said:


>



That is gorgeous!


----------



## vilk

I sold my Widow headstock Warlock platinum series just this weekend, had it since 2003 or so. Can't believe how long it took me to sell the thing. These guitars seriously balance so badly. 


Oh man, we take this joke as a given here, but when I told my bandmates that the Widow headstock was shaped after Blackie Lawless' nutsack, they were howling with laughter. Probably the most they've ever laughed at something I've said.


----------



## BusinessMan

Still have yet to see any of these anywhere aside reverb and pictures of them on the socials...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

BusinessMan said:


> Still have yet to see any of these anywhere aside reverb and pictures of them on the socials...


Yeah I've seen handful of the abalone/toilet burl gunslingers at guitar center but zero ironbirds or stealths.


----------



## JimF

I've been looking into the Prophecy II Ironbirds and they're looking to be due in April. Perhaps that's when everything else lands too?


----------



## Cult of the Ignitor

Anyone has a recent experience with the BC Rich Custom Shop?

I contacted them over the summer requesting a quote for a Custom Ignitor. My build was a very simple solid Black guitar with no special woods and a hardtail bridge. the only "luxury" option in my build was full body+neck+headstock binding and yet they quoted me $6050 for the build (not including shipping) and let me know that prices start at $5500 min. I was expecting something in the $4000 range and I was shocked when they told me the price.

Is it me or are these prices unreasonable? Where are all the $3500, $4000, $5000 priced Custom guitars like the Jacksons and ESPs of the world?

Do you know what's up with the custom shop and what is your opinion about these prices? How can other custom shops afford to offer $3500 guitars made in USA and BC Rich can't? Do you see them dropping the prices in the near future?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Thorh62 said:


> Anyone has a recent experience with the BC Rich Custom Shop?
> 
> I contacted them over the summer requesting a quote for a Custom Ignitor. My build was a very simple solid Black guitar with no special woods and a hardtail bridge. the only "luxury" option in my build was full body+neck+headstock binding and yet they quoted me $6050 for the build (not including shipping) and let me know that prices start at $5500 min. I was expecting something in the $4000 range and I was shocked when they told me the price.
> 
> Is it me or are these prices unreasonable? Where are all the $3500, $4000, $5000 priced Custom guitars like the Jacksons and ESPs of the world?
> 
> Do you know what's up with the custom shop and what is your opinion about these prices? How can other custom shops afford to offer $3500 guitars made in USA and BC Rich can't? Do you see them dropping the prices in the near future?



Niche products have niche prices. 

It's a really small shop, with small output, so they can price for exclusivity.


----------



## Merrekof

When BC Rich custom was at 3500$, you could buy an Indonesian import for 500$, these days those Indo guitars are at 1000-1500$. This is the evolution of prices. I'm no expert on USA customs but other custom shops might save money elsewhere? Like doing the woodwork in Mexico or Korea for example. I don't see prices going down either, shit gets expensive everywhere


----------



## Cult of the Ignitor

Merrekof said:


> When BC Rich custom was at 3500$, you could buy an Indonesian import for 500$, these days those Indo guitars are at 1000-1500$. This is the evolution of prices. I'm no expert on USA customs but other custom shops might save money elsewhere? Like doing the woodwork in Mexico or Korea for example. I don't see prices going down either, shit gets expensive everywhere



Prices seem to have inflated very quickly. It was in 2017 than custom shop prices ranged between mid $3000 and mid $4000.
I think another reason that they are so expensive is that you can only order a guitar through a dealer, so they also need to take their cut of your money. On one hand a trustworthy dealer can be helpful in facilitating your order quickly and ensure a fair transaction, on the other hand, if you order directly from the factory like you used to be able to back in 2017, you got much cheaper prices.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Merrekof said:


> When BC Rich custom was at 3500$, you could buy an Indonesian import for 500$, these days those Indo guitars are at 1000-1500$. This is the evolution of prices. I'm no expert on USA customs but other custom shops might save money elsewhere? Like doing the woodwork in Mexico or Korea for example. I don't see prices going down either, shit gets expensive everywhere



The biggest factor is scale. The higher the volume of work, the larger the shop, the more capable the shop, the more that you can flex the pricing downward. 

The other builders listed, Jackson CS and ESP CS, have orders of magnitude more output on a much less niche product mix, and even then, like for like, the prices aren't outrageously lower.


----------



## Merrekof

Also, you think the BC Rich custom shop is expensive? Look at the current BC Rich guitar cases.. 
I bought one of those coffin cases back in the day, it was one of the nicest cases I ever had, but I thought that was expensive at 250€.


----------



## ExplorerMike

Merrekof said:


> Also, you think the BC Rich custom shop is expensive? Look at the current BC Rich guitar cases..
> I bought one of those coffin cases back in the day, it was one of the nicest cases I ever had, but I thought that was expensive at 250€.



Hadnt seen those case prices! They look the same as the case I bought for my V back around 2002ish and I paid maybe $160 for it, but it didn’t have the purple interior. Granted that’s 20 years ago. From the pics mine looks like it has the nicer/cooler round outer locks too rather than just the standard flip latch things. And mine is the marbled grey color too, but I remember having to wait like 3 months for it for them to switch off of black cases.

Edit: hard to believe I’ve had that guitar and case almost 20 years now.


----------



## zappatton2

I wish I held onto my BCRs, I think I paid $2500 for my Eagle and roughly $5000 for a custom ordered atchtop Beast back in the 00's. Unless I win the lottery I never play, looks like those days are behind me.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

has anyone seen the usa gunslingers on Insta yet?


----------



## Rosal76

TheBolivianSniper said:


> has anyone seen the usa gunslingers on Insta yet?



I don't have a Instagram account but I did see this on the Official B.C. Rich Unlimited Facebook page. It does look pretty cool.


----------



## Cult of the Ignitor

Rosal76 said:


> I don't have a Instagram account but I did see this on the Official B.C. Rich Unlimited Facebook page. It does look pretty cool.



I was confused by this post. Do they mean they are not gonna finish the guitar? Just leave it natural?
If they are gonna finish it, why bother to put hardware, strings and setup an incomplete guitar? Just to take a bunch of pics of it at this stage?


----------



## Bodes

Thorh62 said:


> I was confused by this post. Do they mean they are not gonna finish the guitar? Just leave it natural?
> If they are gonna finish it, why bother to put hardware, strings and setup an incomplete guitar? Just to take a bunch of pics of it at this stage?



Prototyping. It could be to see if the aesthetics and design choices work as intended. They might want to make small adjustments to things. Really hard to do once the guitar is finished in paint.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Thorh62 said:


> I was confused by this post. Do they mean they are not gonna finish the guitar? Just leave it natural?
> If they are gonna finish it, why bother to put hardware, strings and setup an incomplete guitar? Just to take a bunch of pics of it at this stage?



To check fitment before finishing. It's a heck of a lot easier to correct things before you start spraying.


----------



## Damon67

soul_lip_mike said:


> Still waiting for one of those natural stealth’s with gold hardware to pop up in stock. Despite it being a cheap import I must have it.


We've had 2 come and go since I last posted about them. if you really want one, a deposit puts you in line. I don't expect to see any more for a few months though.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Just needs the HATE inlay.


----------



## Damon67

Thorh62 said:


> Prices seem to have inflated very quickly. It was in 2017 than custom shop prices ranged between mid $3000 and mid $4000.
> I think another reason that they are so expensive is that you can only order a guitar through a dealer, so they also need to take their cut of your money. On one hand a trustworthy dealer can be helpful in facilitating your order quickly and ensure a fair transaction, on the other hand, if you order directly from the factory like you used to be able to back in 2017, you got much cheaper prices.



You're halfway correct. In 2017 there were just builders that paid a licensing fee. There was no corporation, no advertising, no nothing.... just a guy building a guitar. There are TWO more layers now, you forgot the new owners.


----------



## Mathemagician

Rosal76 said:


> I don't have a Instagram account but I did see this on the Official B.C. Rich Unlimited Facebook page. It does look pretty cool.



I get Nuno vibes from this natural headstock. As an N4 owner I approve.


----------



## Damon67

Mathemagician said:


> I get Nuno vibes from this natural headstock. As an N4 owner I approve.



Funny... I just bought an N4 from the CEO of BC Rich... also funny... Dude that builds Nuno's guitars used to build BC Rich too.


----------



## Mathemagician

Ok pass this along...what if we took the extended cutaway and made it... “extendeder”...


----------



## MFB

Holy shit balls, that white Warlock


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MFB said:


> Holy shit balls, that white Warlock



I don't *hate* the abalone billboards they released... But I feel like if they went with that aesthetic in the beginning, they'd probably be much better off. Something more stripped down and affordable.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I love their new Stealth


----------



## Rosal76

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I love their new Stealth



Here's a old picture of Paul Masvidal and Chuck Schuldiner holding Chuck's Stealth guitar.


----------



## Perge

Speeeeaking of Chuck's stealth, they posted this today. So, you know. Pointless speculation go!


----------



## John

It's a nice change of pace for them to *not *spam abalone across the entire guitar.

ie: https://www.instagram.com/p/CI9w8nfApCh/


----------



## beerandbeards

Perge said:


> Speeeeaking of Chuck's stealth, they posted this today. So, you know. Pointless speculation go!
> View attachment 92581



it’s about time. I was about to pull the plug on my gas....


----------



## Rosal76

beerandbeards said:


> it’s about time. I was about to *pull the plug* on my gas....



"Pull the plug"??? Did you just make a Death song reference? Nice.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

I'd love an "N5" -- HSS with coil tap L500, and two Lace Sensor single coils.


----------



## Weedly

Patiently waiting for the Ironbirds to arrive. From what I understand, it should be any day now. I've got one fully paid off so all I've got to do is go pick it up. I've also got one of the Warlock Extreme's so I'll be real interested in checking out the differences between the two (besides overall shape and feel). GAS is reaching ultimate levels....


----------



## Perge

Weedly said:


> Patiently waiting for the Ironbirds to arrive. From what I understand, it should be any day now. I've got one fully paid off so all I've got to do is go pick it up. I've also got one of the Warlock Extreme's so I'll be real interested in checking out the differences between the two (besides overall shape and feel). GAS is reaching ultimate levels....



Waiting for people's reaction to those and the sub $1000 dollar warlocks. If QC is right, these are some mean metal machines on paper. Wish sweetwater would carry them, always have good experiences with them and their setups etc. Gonna have to branch out for pointy goodness.


----------



## Weedly

Perge said:


> Waiting for people's reaction to those and the sub $1000 dollar warlocks. If QC is right, these are some mean metal machines on paper. Wish sweetwater would carry them, always have good experiences with them and their setups etc. Gonna have to branch out for pointy goodness.


Hmm, Sweetwater no mas? That's a surprise. There's a shop in Washington state called Red Blanket that I can recommend if you're looking. Pretty sure the owner posts here on the regular.
I'll definitely be posting an NGD when I get the IB. If the Extreme series is any indication I'm stoked for a stripped down workhorse of a guitar for some serious play time.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Perge said:


> Waiting for people's reaction to those and the sub $1000 dollar warlocks. If QC is right, these are some mean metal machines on paper. Wish sweetwater would carry them, always have good experiences with them and their setups etc. Gonna have to branch out for pointy goodness.



Sweetwater does setups?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

soul_lip_mike said:


> Sweetwater does setups?


Yeah, they offer setups for $80, $160 if you want to upgrade the nut to bone or Tusq, and $250 if you want it Plek'd.


----------



## Mwoit

Weedly said:


> Patiently waiting for the Ironbirds to arrive. From what I understand, it should be any day now. I've got one fully paid off so all I've got to do is go pick it up. I've also got one of the Warlock Extreme's so I'll be real interested in checking out the differences between the two (besides overall shape and feel). GAS is reaching ultimate levels....



Are you referring to one of these?

https://www.guitar.co.uk/bc-rich-ironbird-prophecy-mk2-with-floyd-rose-gloss-orange-pearl






If so, I'd love to know. I'm super tempted because it looks super dumb, but at almost £1000...


----------



## JimF

I'm the same! Super intrigued as to how these turn out.
I'm torn between one of these or the Brandon Ellis Kelly.


----------



## odibrom

That one looks like a fun guitar, nice color too, but that upper back _horn_... I bet it won't resist intact a whole week. Bad design in my opinion.


----------



## Mwoit

odibrom said:


> That one looks like a fun guitar, nice color too, but that upper back _horn_... I bet it won't resist intact a whole week. Bad design in my opinion.



It may be dumb and silly, but it's an OG design from the 80s!


----------



## Perge

odibrom said:


> That one looks like a fun guitar, nice color too, but that upper back _horn_... I bet it won't resist intact a whole week. Bad design in my opinion.



Yeeeeeah. But then you see Rutan playing one, and you need a pointy guitar in your life lol


----------



## Blytheryn

odibrom said:


> That one looks like a fun guitar, nice color too, but that upper back _horn_... I bet it won't resist intact a whole week. Bad design in my opinion.




From the looks of it the Ironbird has stood the test of time.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Blytheryn said:


> From the looks of it the Ironbird has stood the test of time.


nah he's right, those pointy ends are always the first thing to get trashed. Happens to basically all pointy designs with thinner tips.


----------



## Blytheryn

KnightBrolaire said:


> nah he's right, those pointy ends are always the first thing to get trashed. Happens to basically all pointy designs with thinner tips.



Ohh, he means the left tip of the “V”? Yeah I can see that getting thrashed.


----------



## odibrom

@KnightBrolaire - yeah, you got what I was aiming for...



Perge said:


> Yeeeeeah. But then you see Rutan playing one, and you need a pointy guitar in your life lol



I don't really know who that fellow is, but I guess he's a cool guy...?




Mwoit said:


> It may be dumb and silly, but it's an OG design from the 80s!



... and @Blytheryn... yah, probably not my most explicit comment but I was indeed referring to that upper "V" horn/pointy thing. It looks so fragile, a bad calculated turn in the house and bang, it snaps right of. I'm not questioning from when it was designed, nor if it stood or not the test of time, only that is is a bad design in my opinion. There are so many bad designs that keep on being made because people are used to them, see Gibson's Les Pauls Classics for example... and this only in our little musical corner... combustion cars! That's another example...

So, to be clear, I'm not thrashing pointy guitars, only commenting this particular one. Xiphos are cool and some Vs as well...


----------



## Blytheryn

odibrom said:


> @KnightBrolaire - yeah, you got what I was aiming for...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really know who that fellow is, but I guess he's a cool guy...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... and @Blytheryn... yah, probably not my most explicit comment but I was indeed referring to that upper "V" horn/pointy thing. It looks so fragile, a bad calculated turn in the house and bang, it snaps right of. I'm not questioning from when it was designed, nor if it stood or not the test of time, only that is is a bad design in my opinion. There are so many bad designs that keep on being made because people are used to them, see Gibson's Les Pauls Classics for example... and this only in our little musical corner... combustion cars! That's another example...
> 
> So, to be clear, I'm not thrashing pointy guitars, only commenting this particular one. Xiphos are cool and some Vs as well...



All those are very fair points indeed. I've seen many an RR's etc. with truncated fins!


----------



## Perge

odibrom said:


> @KnightBrolaire - yeah, you got what I was aiming for...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't really know who that fellow is, but I guess he's a cool guy...?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... and @Blytheryn... yah, probably not my most explicit comment but I was indeed referring to that upper "V" horn/pointy thing. It looks so fragile, a bad calculated turn in the house and bang, it snaps right of. I'm not questioning from when it was designed, nor if it stood or not the test of time, only that is is a bad design in my opinion. There are so many bad designs that keep on being made because people are used to them, see Gibson's Les Pauls Classics for example... and this only in our little musical corner... combustion cars! That's another example...
> 
> So, to be clear, I'm not thrashing pointy guitars, only commenting this particular one. Xiphos are cool and some Vs as well...



Pretty cool guy.


----------



## odibrom

Perge said:


> Pretty cool guy.




... so he's on Cannibal Corpse?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

odibrom said:


> ... so he's on Cannibal Corpse?



I mean, you _could_ Google it if you cared.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

odibrom said:


> ... so he's on Cannibal Corpse?


He joined earlier this year. I mean it makes sense, since Pat's in legal trouble and Erik's been their producer for awhile now and probably has a good feel for how the band works. Listen to early Morbid Angel and Hate Eternal and you get a good idea who he is. 

Also he needs a sig Ironbird like now.


----------



## odibrom

MaxOfMetal said:


> I mean, you _could_ Google it if you cared.



... obviously...  it's not that I don't care about Cannibal Corpse (which is a band I haven't heard anything of for 20+ years, simply because they don't really fill my expression needs), it's just that I couldn't do anything else in my life if I was to follow every single clue and lead you guys leave around here. Sometimes, the SSO collective knowledge works better for those who ask for it...? I've learned to acknowledge you guys know best... 




HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> He joined earlier this year. I mean it makes sense, since Pat's in legal trouble and Erik's been their producer for awhile now and probably has a good feel for how the band works. Listen to early Morbid Angel and Hate Eternal and you get a good idea who he is.
> 
> Also he needs a sig Ironbird like now.



Thanks for the small story/info on them...


----------



## Mwoit

I've asked the store to let me know if any of them arrive. Apparently they have a green pearl on order (I've only seen the Orange one) so I'm looking forward to a different colour and trying it out if it's any good. Not sure when it'll be though!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands




----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>


I wish my Fender and Squier came in boxes like this. I know it is a weird quibble, but not a fan of the boxes.


----------



## mlp187

I’m really glad they are not offering these gunslingers w/ a rosewood or ebony fretboard, because I don’t think I would be able to resist. Beautiful guitars.


----------



## manu80

waiting for the USA metallic purple color to arrive on import models.... but the green one looks gorgeous


----------



## JimF

More pics of the above from Facebook stories


----------



## Andromalia

The colors are cool. Not in the mood for a new guitar atm but I'd have bought one if this was released 10 years ago.


----------



## JimF

The black Ironbirds are conspicuous in their absence...
Whilst I like bright colours, I'm not a fan of bright metallic colours, but black will do my nicely. Throw some brass fine tuners on the floyd, an 80's speedknob and a zebra pickup and it'll look 30 years old!


----------



## mitou

What's up with the Gunslingers not having a forearm contour? Have they always been like that? Sorry if this has been discussed before.


----------



## Bdtunn

Imagine if they had released these model first


----------



## Mathemagician

So…. Any word on 7 string iron birds? I skipped a ton of pages. 



Bdtunn said:


> Imagine if they had released these model first



They would have had a lot of angry customers due to low supply from all the sales/pre-orders lol.


----------



## mbardu

Andromalia said:


> The colors are cool. *Not in the mood for a new guitar atm* but I'd have bought one if this was released 10 years ago.



*Hérétique!*


----------



## Mwoit

Wow nice. They look rad.

I tried their MIK Ironbird Extreme (https://www.guitar.co.uk/bc-rich-ironbird-extreme-with-floyd-rose-matte-white) in the store, and it was alright. Was it £1479 nice? No way. The set up wasn't fab, but that can be fixed. Did it play well? Yeah, it was nice and fun to play. The specs are alright, the Fishmans sounded okay (tried it through a Boss Katana so not the fairest comparison), so it was hard to give it a fair review.

I'm looking forward to the Prophecy models and I'm hoping they're a decent starting point. If it's built competently, I can do the set up myself and take it from there, but if the guitar is poor from the get-go, I'd be disappointed. At just shy of £1000 though, I'm quite 50/50 about it.


----------



## JimF

Exactly my thoughts. Just out of interest where did you try that one?
What other brands would you compare the neck to?


----------



## Mwoit

JimF said:


> Exactly my thoughts. Just out of interest where did you try that one?
> What other brands would you compare the neck to?



It was in guitar.co.uk (previously Merchant City Music) in Glasgow, they had the white Ironbird in. 

Um, it was a neck through but the back of the neck was satin. Lots of abalone, which reminds me of Schecter guitars. I'm used to ERG instruments (I own 2 6 string electrics and a 6 string acoustic) so I found the neck quite small, not too flat, not too curvy. It wasn't like an Ibanez, it's got more "shoulders" and it didn't feel as wide. I've not played enough Jacksons / Schecters / LTDs enough to give it a fair comparison. To put it bluntly, it feel somewhere in the middle and it was okay. Nothing special. The satin feel is slick if you're into that.


----------



## JimF

Thanks for that, much appreciated! I'm north of the border next week so might try and swing across to give it a go.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

JimF said:


> Exactly my thoughts. Just out of interest where did you try that one?
> What other brands would you compare the neck to?



I'm not sure if they kept the neck profile the same as it was in 2012 but if so it feels remarkably like the ESP thin U but a little more narrow and round. That's coming off my ST though, I don't know if they changed the neck or if it would be different between Legacy/Extreme since the current mockingbirds are based off of the old STs.


----------



## exo

BCR just announced a Chuck sig Stealth, supposed to start shipping in August.....

https://www.facebook.com/107882511013/posts/10158882623646014/?d=n


----------



## Perge

exo said:


> BCR just announced a Chuck sig Stealth, supposed to start shipping in August.....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/107882511013/posts/10158882623646014/?d=n



Damnit. I was set on an ironbird, but this kind of has me drooling...


----------



## Mathemagician

exo said:


> BCR just announced a Chuck sig Stealth, supposed to start shipping in August.....
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/107882511013/posts/10158882623646014/?d=n



There’s also a USA option as well. Is the BCR custom shop still operating and trucking along or are they like being ghost-built elsewhere?


----------



## works0fheart

I don't actually see where to pre-order one of these? It says available to order now but idk from where. I'd like to be able to get an idea on the price point.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Mathemagician said:


> There’s also a USA option as well. Is the BCR custom shop still operating and trucking along or are they like being ghost-built elsewhere?



You say that as if they've never not been ghost built.


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> You say that as if they've never not been ghost built.



I know NOTHING about BCR aside from Bernie stealing hella money after starting another company.

I’m just a guy waiting over here to see some 7 string iron birds or stealths. Just asking questions as noobs do, and kicking tires. Lol.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

Mathemagician said:


> I know NOTHING about BCR aside from Bernie stealing hella money after starting another company.
> 
> I’m just a guy waiting over here to see some 7 string iron birds or stealths. Just asking questions as noobs do, and kicking tires. Lol.


NO LOITERING!


----------



## Mathemagician

How many strings does this 8 string zilla have?


----------



## TornAnus

I pre-ordered a black ironbird prophecy from chondro in February and still waiting. Last I heard the black ones werent even in the first batch... I'm getting impatient.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

ERIK RUTAN IRONBIRD 7 SIGNATURE MODEL

BODY & CONSTRUCTION
BODY SHAPE
Ironbird MK2
CONSTRUCTION
No heel Neck-Thru body
BODY WOOD
Mahogany
BODY FINISH
Rutan Red
NECK
NECK SHAPE
C-Shape
NECK WOOD
3-Piece Mahogany
SCALE
26.5
TRUSS ROD
Dual Adjust
HEADSTOCK
6-Inline
FRETBOARD
MATERIAL
Ebony fretboard
RADIUS
16
FRET SIZE
Jescar Extra Jumbo Frets
NUMBER OF FRETS
24
INLAYS
Rutan Inlay
NUT
Floyd Rose Original 7
NUT WIDTH
1.875
HARDWARE
BRIDGE TYPE
Locking
BRIDGE DESIGN
Floyd Rose Original
TAILPIECE
Floyd Rose Original with Titanium inserts and saddle screws
TUNING MACHINES
Grover Mini Rotomatic 18:1 ratio
COLOR
Black
PICKUPS & ELECTRONICS
PICKUP CONFIGURATION
Dual Fishman® Humbuckers
NECK PICKUP
Fishman® Fluence Modern Humbucker Alnico (H) neck pickup
BRIDGE PICKUP
Fishman® Fluence Modern Humbucker Ceramic bridge pickup
CONTROL LAYOUT
1 x volume (push-pull voice selector) 3-way toggle
PREAMP SYSTEM
Fishman Fluence
SPECIAL ELECTRONICS
25K Linear pots
OTHER
STRINGS
NYXL1164 Nickel Wound Electric Strings - .011-.064 7-string Medium
NUMBER OF STRINGS
7
ACCESSORIES
Case Included and Schaller S locks


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Man, that's pretty fucking badass.


----------



## spudmunkey

This is my favorite color I've seen on a new Ironbird. Is this a USA-built model, or an import?


----------



## Dooky

spudmunkey said:


> This is my favorite color I've seen on a new Ironbird. Is this a USA-built model, or an import?


It looks good. So my guess is USA


----------



## Edika

That is so pimped out in terms of specs it's ridiculous lol. Even as an import it's going to be pricey, let alone a USA model.

EDIT: It says Made in USA in the back of the headstock.


----------



## metaljohn

Now if they just make a fixed bridge version of that....


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I know they had to make it for a broader audience..but Rutan seems to be a 1 pickup kinda guy. Wish they had stuck with that, but then again it's not like I was gonna buy the thing so who cares what I think.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I know they had to make it for a broader audience..but Rutan seems to be a 1 pickup kinda guy. Wish they had stuck with that, but then again it's not like I was gonna buy the thing so who cares what I think.



These have been his main guitars for awhile now:


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

MaxOfMetal said:


> These have been his main guitars for awhile now:
> 
> View attachment 96816


Oh yeah..he removed the knobs, not the pickup. It's late and I'm half delirious.


----------



## possumkiller

So close! Why no reverse headstock????


----------



## Marked Man

I can attest to the very high quality and materials of the Legacy Series based on my Bich. That's right, I didn't call her "B" and B.C.R. now does. 




I am hunting for the Floyded Legacy Mockingbird next, although they are still impossible to find and asking ABOVE MSRP, which is no go in my book. They thought of everything and use the best materials and have beautiful fretwork. And the Dimarzio D Activators are killer!! However, I think a 25" scale would be perfect for the classic series (at least for my big mitts), and would be perfectly ok with 25.5", although that's a personal preference. If I ever custom order one, it will be either 25 or 25.5". 

I would also love to see them do new MIK versions of the Assassin and Gunslinger. Come on BCR!!!!


----------



## narad

Marked Man said:


> I can attest to the very high quality and materials of the Legacy Series based on my Bich. That's right, I didn't call her "B" and B.C.R. now does.
> 
> View attachment 96817
> 
> 
> I am hunting for the Floyded Legacy Mockingbird next, although they are still impossible to find and asking ABOVE MSRP, which is no go in my book. They thought of everything and use the best materials and have beautiful fretwork. And the Dimarzio D Activators are killer!! However, I think a 25" scale would be perfect for the classic series (at least for my big mitts), and would be perfectly ok with 25.5", although that's a personal preference. If I ever custom order one, it will be either 25 or 25.5".
> 
> I would also love to see them do new MIK versions of the Assassin and Gunslinger. Come on BCR!!!!



What kind of foot controller is that? Don't think I've ever seen that one.

Ah, found it: FU-2


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

This all just makes me sad for Pat again. Poor guy. Man it could you imagine how insanely off the rails CC would be with Rutan and Pat as guitarists?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

nvm


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

They're doing an import Chuck sig, there will be an import Erik Rutan sig. This just gives me hope for more BCR 7s. Definitely the biggest score they've had in a while.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Didnt expect a 7 string with Fluences


----------



## JimF

Yep I thought this, but if its to suit "current Rutan" then its to fit with Cannibal Corpse duties. Unless its just an attempt to spec a model up using parts they already have in the parts bins...


----------



## Andromalia

narad said:


> What kind of foot controller is that? Don't think I've ever seen that one.
> 
> Ah, found it: FU-2


Whoever came up with that naming scheme is a genius.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lowkey hyped for the rutan 7. Though at the rate bcr is putting out guitars I don't have much faith that it'll be in stores til next year.


----------



## jco5055

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Didnt expect a 7 string with Fluences



Yeah I thought in general he never used 7 strings, and his famous Ironbird has Dimarzios (X2n?) right?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

jco5055 said:


> Yeah I thought in general he never used 7 strings, and his famous Ironbird has Dimarzios (X2n?) right?


Apparently Erik used one for Upon Desolate Sands (Hate Eternal's last album, which was fucking sick) and he's using it for cannibal corpse because his 24 5/8" scale 6 strings aren't cutting it for B flat or whatever the hell CC are tuning to anymore. 
Chondro Guitars said import line and USA models will be available. No 6 strings except for a prototype apparently.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yeah I can see him going to a 7 string for CC. Just weird that came first


----------



## jco5055

KnightBrolaire said:


> Apparently Erik used one for Upon Desolate Sands (Hate Eternal's last album, which was fucking sick) and he's using it for cannibal corpse because his 24 5/8" scale 6 strings aren't cutting it for B flat or whatever the hell CC are tuning to anymore.
> Chondro Guitars said import line and USA models will be available. No 6 strings except for a prototype apparently.



i have no complaints, make that neck a D shape and I don't need a custom guitar ever haha.


----------



## gunshow86de

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah I can see him going to a 7 string for CC. Just weird that came first



I think CC is just that much more commercially viable than Hate Eternal. 

I like everything but the Fishman's. Rutan sig needs an X2N or Distortion.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah I can see him going to a 7 string for CC. Just weird that came first


I guess they figured they had the 6 string ironbird niche already filled with the extreme and prophecy lines.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

jco5055 said:


> Yeah I thought in general he never used 7 strings, and his famous Ironbird has Dimarzios (X2n?) right?


He does use 7’s when he tunes low, but a majority of the time he’s using a 6 down tuned. He’s currently using a Gibson dirty fingers pickup, but he maybe switched to fluence’s because he’s with Cannibal Corpse now and both Pat and Rob use them.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

@Dumple Stilzkin likely that or/as well as BC Rich couldn't get Gibson OEM for a production model. I mean, have they _ever_ let another brand use their pickups in a production guitar?

Edit: I really should've checked this thread before making one over in the seven string forum, my bad... ah well, more exposure?


----------



## Estilo

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> He does use 7’s when he tunes low, but a majority of the time he’s using a 6 down tuned. He’s currently using a Gibson dirty fingers pickup, but he maybe switched to fluence’s because he’s with Cannibal Corpse now and both Pat and Rob use them.



As an aside, he used the Dirty Fingers meant for Gibson string spacing on a Floyd-equipped guitar. In one of his rig videos it's quite apparent the polepieces don't align with his strings. This guy produces for other bands, and CC attested from way back the sharpness in his ears, and he doesn't mind the F-spaced thing. Looks like it's another one of those things lurking around the interwebs that's more myth than anything.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Estilo said:


> As an aside, he used the Dirty Fingers meant for Gibson string spacing on a Floyd-equipped guitar. In one of his rig videos it's quite apparent the polepieces don't align with his strings. This guy produces for other bands, and CC attested from way back the sharpness in his ears, and he doesn't mind the F-spaced thing. Looks like it's another one of those things lurking around the interwebs that's more myth than anything.



Yeah, that couple millimeters difference between F and and G spacing doesn't really make a lick of difference. It's just one of those things that prevails because it seems like it should matter, but it doesn't. The magnetic field of the pickup is wide enough.


----------



## Hollowway

Are you guys aware of the Steve Smyth 7 string sig? I don't know how I missed that this existed. I've always loved this shape, and since it's 7 string, 25.5" AND an ebony board, I decided I had to fulfill another teenage dream and get a Bich. It just popped up on Reverb for $899, so I made another impulse buy.


----------



## Andromalia

Weeeell, you _usually _have good taste.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Hollowway said:


> Are you guys aware of the Steve Smyth 7 string sig? I don't know how I missed that this existed. I've always loved this shape, and since it's 7 string, 25.5" AND an ebony board, I decided I had to fulfill another teenage dream and get a Bich. It just popped up on Reverb for $899, so I made another impulse buy.




BRO YOU GOT IT?????

Facebook was popping off, I would've loved to grab it myself but I was in class when it was posted. Fuuuck, good find man


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

Hollowway said:


> Are you guys aware of the Steve Smyth 7 string sig? I don't know how I missed that this existed. I've always loved this shape, and since it's 7 string, 25.5" AND an ebony board, I decided I had to fulfill another teenage dream and get a Bich. It just popped up on Reverb for $899, so I made another impulse buy.


Oh man, I remember this coming out and about 1.5 people actually put an effort in to purchase one. I kinda love it in a weird way, but that headstock is a total no for me. Hope you'll like it though!


----------



## Hollowway

The Spanish Inquisition said:


> that headstock is a total no for me.


Well, from a cosmetic standpoint, I agree. But I bought it for functional reasons. Specifically, my balls have been really tired, and I needed a place to rest them.


----------



## Hollowway

Andromalia said:


> Weeeell, you _usually _have good taste.


 I feel you on that, but 14 year old me loves Mockingbirds and Biches. Strangely, I've no more desire to own a Warlock. And I DO desperately wish it had a different HS, but I can live with a butter headstock.


----------



## Spicypickles

I love the Bich shape but I couldn’t handle those abalone stringers


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

Hollowway said:


> Well, from a cosmetic standpoint, I agree. But I bought it for functional reasons. Specifically, my balls have been really tired, and I needed a place to rest them.


You ask, BC Rich provides. But honestly, I would love one of those oversized 6 (or in this case 7)-in a row headstocks they used in the 80's. Make BC Rich great again.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

There's a platinum series ironbird on ebay that the seller is claiming is MIJ. I thought only the NJ/US stuff was MIJ?


----------



## eggy in a bready

KnightBrolaire said:


> There's a platinum series ironbird on ebay that the seller is claiming is MIJ. I thought only the NJ/US stuff was MIJ?


pretty sure only the early NJ stuff was MIJ. seller is buggin'.


----------



## gunch

But also consider there's been like 0 consistency in product lines and where they're made all throughout BCR's history.


----------



## beerandbeards

Sooooo, no Chuck Schuldiner tributes anywhere?


----------



## spudmunkey

beerandbeards said:


> Sooooo, no Chuck Schuldiner tributes anywhere?



No, but they did announce a line of "high-end" acoustics, and said they've ramped up production of US Gunslingers...


----------



## KnightBrolaire

boooooo where the fuck is the production 7 string ironbird


----------



## STRHelvete

KnightBrolaire said:


> boooooo where the fuck is the production 7 string ironbird



No one cares.


----------



## zappatton2

I'm here for the Beasts.... I guess I'll be back...


----------



## Mathemagician

STRHelvete said:


> No one cares.



There’s dozens of us!

Ok yeah it’s like 5 of us. But still.


----------



## STRHelvete

Mathemagician said:


> There’s dozens of us!
> 
> Ok yeah it’s like 5 of us. But still.


I know. I just wanted to be an ass, lol. It's my job to poke the SS beehive every now and then


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

STRHelvete said:


> I know. I just wanted to be an ass, lol. It's my job to poke the SS beehive every now and then


----------



## Randy

KnightBrolaire said:


> boooooo where the fuck is the production 7 string ironbird



I was semi-hyped about this, but then there was a lot of crowing over which body style, headstock, controls and color these were getting and I came to the conclusion it was either going to be a mess or there wouldn't be one at all. Hard to be disappointed when your expectations crater.


----------



## Randy

spudmunkey said:


> No, but they did announce a line of "high-end" acoustics, and said they've ramped up production of US Gunslingers...



BTW, this right here sounds like every other iteration of BC Rich ever. Start off with "okay we're focusing on the fundamentals. Let's make the stuff BCR is known for" and then a couple years in you've got fufu acoustic guitars. Who wanted new BC Rich acoustic guitars? Specifically ones that don't in any way imitate BCR body shapes, just something generic?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Randy said:


> I was semi-hyped about this, but then there was a lot of crowing over which body style, headstock, controls and color these were getting and I came to the conclusion it was either going to be a mess or there wouldn't be one at all. Hard to be disappointed when your expectations crater.


I mean they teased them as being 7 string versions of the prophecy line, which i am totally fine with. I'll take an indo bird since you can't even find decent used ironbirds for sub 900$ anymore.
The erik rutan announcement gave me some extra hope, but it seems like they don't really give a shit about the ironbird overall. Nobody has received a new shipment of the prophecy birds in ages from what i've seen, so that's also discouraging.


----------



## Adieu

STRHelvete said:


> No one cares.



THIS.



KnightBrolaire said:


> I mean they teased them as being 7 string versions of the prophecy line, which i am totally fine with. I'll take an indo bird since you can't even find decent used ironbirds for sub 900$ anymore.
> The erik rutan announcement gave me some extra hope, but it seems like they don't really give a shit about the ironbird overall. Nobody has received a new shipment of the prophecy birds in ages from what i've seen, so that's also discouraging.



They prolly realized it was their least appealing shape... see above.


----------



## BusinessMan

So none of these still in the wild yet? Didn't think so.


----------



## spudmunkey

Randy said:


> BTW, this right here sounds like every other iteration of BC Rich ever. Start off with "okay we're focusing on the fundamentals. Let's make the stuff BCR is known for" and then a couple years in you've got fufu acoustic guitars. Who wanted new BC Rich acoustic guitars?



There were a suprising number of positive comments to that IG post.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

spudmunkey said:


> There were a suprising number of positive comments to that IG post.



I mean the BCR acoustics apparently are insanely desirable and their high end ones are both very rare and play great. They did start as an acoustic shop so


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Adieu said:


> THIS.
> 
> 
> 
> They prolly realized it was their least appealing shape... see above.


All the ironbird and stealth posts on their ig have nearly double the likes versus their other stuff. Ironbird is one of their hallmark shapes and neglecting it will only hurt them.


----------



## Randy

spudmunkey said:


> There were a suprising number of positive comments to that IG post.



I don't know a lot about their social media dynamic. If it's anything like Kiesel or Ormbsy, all their subs are sycophants anyway.

I'm sure the BCR acoustics are nice but who flexes they got a BCR acoustic?


----------



## spudmunkey

Randy said:


> but who flexes they got a BCR acoustic?


----------



## jonsick

In fairness, whatever Ironbird they produce needs to hit home on several levels. And I think the current production ones do not. I can get over the exact shape of the Ironbird and I can live with almost any headstock. The finishes however I think are just too damned ugly. The same goes for the Warlocks. And all that Abalone...

They would have done much better if they ditched the abalone and just had some good solid finishes and a few maple tops here and there. 

I've only personally had a single Warlock in my hands and while it played well, the abalone got me and the fact the top had too little bevelling to it to be comfortable for long periods of playing does put me off totally.

While it's easy to say, "Oh stop bellyaching over the abalone, get over it!" The fact is it's the most consistent and largest feedback.


----------



## Mathemagician

I would take a flat black or red ironbird 7 at this point. Yes even gloss black. As long as the FB isn’t some ugly brown. But I don’t actually expect to see anything until 2023 at this point. Supply chain issues make me think they’re going to focus on their most popular sellers until things stabilize sometime next year.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

I don't care what anyone says this guitar is sick!

https://reverb.com/item/45686582-b-...e-with-floyd-rose-exironfrmw-2020-matte-white


----------



## STRHelvete

soul_lip_mike said:


> I don't care what anyone says this guitar is sick!
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/45686582-b-...e-with-floyd-rose-exironfrmw-2020-matte-white


...ain't that the Static X logo?


----------



## mbardu

soul_lip_mike said:


> I don't care what anyone says this guitar is sick!
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/45686582-b-...e-with-floyd-rose-exironfrmw-2020-matte-white



Yeah it's clearly very sick.
Someone needs to put it down and end its misery already.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

STRHelvete said:


> ...ain't that the Static X logo?


nah that looks more like a draco


----------



## lewis

At least we know what's stuck in all those container ships at sea.


----------



## STRHelvete

KnightBrolaire said:


> nah that looks more like a draco


Damn...you ain't wrong.


----------



## metaljohn

I just want a somewhat affordable fixed bridge Ironbird in a solid color(or crackle finish)


----------



## STRHelvete

Has anyone looked at the used section on the Guitar Center website? FULL of new BC Rich guitars. I wonder what that's about. Yeah it's nothing shocking to see newer models end up on the used circuit but goddamn there are so many that look practically brand new like the owner only had it for a very short time and wanted to get rid of it


----------



## twguitar

STRHelvete said:


> Has anyone looked at the used section on the Guitar Center website? FULL of new BC Rich guitars. I wonder what that's about. Yeah it's nothing shocking to see newer models end up on the used circuit but goddamn there are so many that look practically brand new like the owner only had it for a very short time and wanted to get rid of it


I dont know this as 100% fact but I think most of those are either b-stock or stock bought in from other dealer they cant sell as being brand new


----------



## STRHelvete

twguitar said:


> I dont know this as 100% fact but I think most of those are either b-stock or stock bought in from other dealer they cant sell as being brand new


I would sure hope so.


----------



## Edika

If there's a large number of them being B-stock it's not a good sign either.


----------



## beerandbeards

Are those huge shipping containers airtight? I’m curious if the salty sea air could hit those products and cause some corrosion if they sit there for months. Or would it take years for that?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

beerandbeards said:


> Are those huge shipping containers airtight? I’m curious if the salty sea air could hit those products and cause some corrosion if they sit there for months. Or would it take years for that?



Airtight? Nope. But they're still decently sealed and the pallets are usually wrapped well. Then you have the different layers of individual packaging. I don't think water intrusion is an issue unless they get submerged.


----------



## Bdtunn

beerandbeards said:


> Are those huge shipping containers airtight? I’m curious if the salty sea air could hit those products and cause some corrosion if they sit there for months. Or would it take years for that?



A lot of them even if dumped off the boat should be ok to float around for a good while, unless they are structurally compromised. My company ships in metal from all over the world and we very rarely open a can that has water damage.


----------



## Andromalia

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't think water intrusion is an issue unless they get submerged.


We'd notice immediately because half of the stuff shipped from China is wrapped in cardboard boxes who make detecting humidity very, very easy when you unbox the thing. When I came back from Japan I had my laserdisc collection sent by sea at the lowest price available, it took three months and there was no issue whatsoever.


----------



## BusinessMan

STRHelvete said:


> Has anyone looked at the used section on the Guitar Center website? FULL of new BC Rich guitars. I wonder what that's about. Yeah it's nothing shocking to see newer models end up on the used circuit but goddamn there are so many that look practically brand new like the owner only had it for a very short time and wanted to get rid of it



Tempted to start saving for one of those warlocks because pointy


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

spudmunkey said:


> View attachment 98956


This would’ve been laugh out loud funny if you said, “Danny Tanner, bitch!” Please, do better.


----------



## Loomer

MaxOfMetal said:


> Airtight? Nope. But they're still decently sealed and the pallets are usually wrapped well. Then you have the different layers of individual packaging. I don't think water intrusion is an issue unless they get submerged.



Not gonna lie: Fully submerged would have been a fun marketing gimmick with some "touched by Cthulhu" angle. I would get a chuckle out of it at least.


----------



## Loomer

STRHelvete said:


> Has anyone looked at the used section on the Guitar Center website? FULL of new BC Rich guitars. I wonder what that's about. Yeah it's nothing shocking to see newer models end up on the used circuit but goddamn there are so many that look practically brand new like the owner only had it for a very short time and wanted to get rid of it


As much as I like shitting on Zoltan's little pet project and generally being an insufferable curmudgeon (see my previous posts in this thread), I'd be willing to bet that this is much more a question of COVID hitting a lot of people really, really hard in terms of finances and job layoffs. I think that there is a lot people having to sell of their guitars, regardless of brand.
If anything, people might tend to go with a "last hired, first fired" approach to sales and keeping the guitars they've grown more attached to, so naturally the guitars that have only been on the market for a few years won't have any sentimental value.


----------



## possumkiller

Those acoustics look as high end as any other $80 Chinese veneered fake abalone covered no name garbage that have been hanging the last fifteen years on the wall of your local mom and pop small town garbage music shop that services rednecks and church goers.


----------



## CanserDYI

possumkiller said:


> Those acoustics look as high end as any other $80 Chinese veneered fake abalone covered no name garbage that have been hanging the last fifteen years on the wall of your local mom and pop small town garbage music shop that services rednecks and church goers.


You have those in Poland too??


----------



## IbanezDaemon

Arriving in December though they haven't said which December....


----------



## Blytheryn

IbanezDaemon said:


> Arriving in December though they haven't said which December....
> 
> View attachment 99425



How does one not buy this? Impossible.


----------



## beerandbeards

Blytheryn said:


> How does one not buy this? Impossible.



Easy, it never shows up in stock


----------



## possumkiller

CanserDYI said:


> You have those in Poland too??


Idk. In Poland I live in a nice city. But I'm originally from the shittiest shithole Alabama part of Florida.


----------



## CanserDYI

possumkiller said:


> Idk. In Poland I live in a nice city. But I'm originally from the shittiest shithole Alabama part of Florida.


 hahahaah yeah, they've got these all over the American south. Man we have a lot of Expats on this site dont we?


----------



## aesthyrian

Andromalia said:


> When I came back from Japan I had my laserdisc collection sent



Woah, enough with the flexing bro.


----------



## TornAnus

My pre-order for the prophecy got refunded through Chondro Guitars. These guitars will never be seen and I chalk it up as another failure of BC Rich.


----------



## Ataraxia2320

TornAnus said:


> My pre-order for the prophecy got refunded through Chondro Guitars. These guitars will never be seen and I chalk it up as another failure of BC Rich.



Ouch. I've heard good things about people once they received their guitars but so many horror stories about actually getting one.


----------



## STRHelvete

TornAnus said:


> My pre-order for the prophecy got refunded through Chondro Guitars. These guitars will never be seen and I chalk it up as another failure of BC Rich.


Well...Guitar Center's used section often has them if you're looking


----------



## TornAnus

STRHelvete said:


> Well...Guitar Center's used section often has them if you're looking


This is what I did. I took my refund and used it to fund one of the ironbird extreme series. Not exactly what I wanted but I will finally own a BCR Ironbird.


----------



## mogar

All I want is a run of these, made in korea, with a gotoh 510, and at around $1500. I'd buy 2.

https://reverb.com/item/10617214-b-c-rich-usa-warlock-black-with-white-binding


----------



## Loomer

mogar said:


> All I want is a run of these, made in korea, with a gotoh 510, and at around $1500. I'd buy 2.
> 
> https://reverb.com/item/10617214-b-c-rich-usa-warlock-black-with-white-binding


Nah dude... The 510 is probably close to something people out in the real world would actually. 
I don't rate the odds of that happening very high, to put it mildly.


----------



## Breeding The Spawn

Any news on the Import Chuck Stealth's?


----------



## TornAnus

Breeding The Spawn said:


> Any news on the Import Chuck Stealth's?


Don't hold your breath.


----------



## tedtan

Any chance we’ll see any of the promised non blinged out models any time soon?


----------



## BusinessMan

Inb4 anyone else, but RIP BCR (again)


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

BusinessMan said:


> Inb4 anyone else, but RIP BCR (again)


I think that’s a little preemptive, they started at a bad time (pandemic). The Instagram page is still being updated.


----------



## Hollowway

tedtan said:


> Any chance we’ll see any of the promised non blinged out models any time soon?


I’m waiting for this too. Specifically, a Shredzilla 8, add trem, hold the abalone.


----------



## jonsick

It's a real shame it's gone this way. I've been in the presence of two of their guitars now and really they're actually really good instruments. 

I just cancelled my order after it got put back to May '22. I'll reorder it if there comes a time it may ever come back into stock. But BC Rich aren't the only company facing these issues. I have an E-II on order too which is constantly being moved back. But given it's gone up in price by a few hundred quid since I ordered it, I figure I may as well let it sit.


----------



## tedtan

Yeah, everyone’s supply chain seems to be temporarily shot right now except on the same continent where the gear is manufactured so it can be trucked instead of shipped. But even trucking is a slower than normal right now, too, at least here in North America.


----------



## TornAnus

I got my bc rich extreme ironbird. It's a great guitar and makes me want more bc rich.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

TornAnus said:


> I got my bc rich extreme ironbird. It's a great guitar and makes me want more bc rich.



how's the build quality? I've been debating saving for a 6 string and I'd honestly like to stay within brand for once and I think a warlock would be cool to have

or maybe another mockingbird or stealth idk


----------



## TornAnus

TheBolivianSniper said:


> how's the build quality? I've been debating saving for a 6 string and I'd honestly like to stay within brand for once and I think a warlock would be cool to have
> 
> or maybe another mockingbird or stealth idk


Build quality very good. Frets and binding have no flaws. My only gripe is the strap button positions, neck dive is bad. I suppose I will relocate them.


----------



## gunch

So this whole relaunch of BCR has been an L, right? Are they done for?


----------



## TornAnus

gunch said:


> So this whole relaunch of BCR has been an L, right? Are they done for?


Pretty much. They keep hyping new models but haven't delivered on guitars from a year ago.


----------



## manu80

Not sure that that the current situation helps then in any way. Every brands have had their production delayed. I've seen maybe 1 or 2 jackson only friedman mirror pop in europe, the Gibson mustaine are not released yet, some models/parts have a delay of 18 weeks and 2021 is over in a few weeks....
It's a bit the same everywhere....
i was expecting they'd release that metallic purple gunslinger as an import soon


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis

My GC has a blue Mockingbird but they've got it on the top rack so I haven't played it. And like who's gonna make those guys get out the ladder for a BC Rich?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

gunch said:


> So this whole relaunch of BCR has been an L, right? Are they done for?





TornAnus said:


> Pretty much. They keep hyping new models but haven't delivered on guitars from a year ago.



BCR most likely got really screwed by the supply chain issues, since they aren't as big as other brands these days. I imagine they aren't getting as much floor space as other companies.


----------



## bostjan

The longer this pandemic drags on, the more likely we will see more small brands like BCR cave in on themselves. As a BCR enthusiast, I'm not even all that stoked to see the brand relaunch full of abalone and crazy burls. What few seem to be out there are getting mediocre reviews. Maybe when the pandemic is over in 2062 or whatever, the brand can relaunch for ultranostalgic kids, similar to how Danelectro relaunched in the late 90's.


----------



## gunch

bostjan said:


> The longer this pandemic drags on, the more likely we will see more small brands like BCR cave in on themselves. As a BCR enthusiast, I'm not even all that stoked to see the brand relaunch full of abalone and crazy burls. What few seem to be out there are getting mediocre reviews. Maybe when the pandemic is over in 2062 or whatever, the brand can relaunch for ultranostalgic kids, similar to how Danelectro relaunched in the late 90's.



Unfortunate. 

Wanted them to succeed so we could see some new Beasts or Eagles


----------



## spudmunkey

They've been posting photos of abalone-less Shredzillas lately on IG, but they are never clear on when items are coming from the US custom shops, or are a part of the import line ....heck, or even if it's just a 25-year-old guitar they just happen to be showing again. Supposedly Gunsllingers are actually being mass-produced in the US rather than depending on the international supply chain.

Posted just an hour ago:




This one says "legacy series"...is that a part of the import line?





This one says "Prophecy", and that was import...right?



"Prophecy 2022"


----------



## TornAnus

I will never pre-order a guitar again. I waited a year for a bc rich only for the order to be canceled.


----------



## cardinal

Suxxxx because the guitars they show look amazing (that Ironbird!).


----------



## Loomer

That Ironbird is definitely making me feel things the lineup thus far has completely failed to achieve. This was the kind of stuff I wanted.


----------



## jonsick

I love that Ironbird. But I'm just not a Kahler fan. It's not that there's anything wrong with them but as I started with Floyd Rose bridges and having had a few Kahlers, I just know what I prefer. But hey, others like it so fair dues.

I get the impression that UK stock seems to appearing again. Could be a good sign of the times?


----------



## Viginez

straight headstock on that ironbird, interesting.


----------



## spudmunkey

Viginez said:


> straight headstock on that ironbird, interesting.



I'vew never paid much attention to BC Rich over the years, but that's the best-looking headstock for the Ironbird I've seen.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

cease with the silly 6 string standard shapes 


return to 2014 stealth 7 NT

give me a good reason to buy another guitar after the absolute fucking dud that was my other BCR 7


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

When I heard Harpoon headstock I was expecting this massive hunka wood







But nah, it looks like they went with a sleeker looking one. I dig it more tbh.


----------



## STRHelvete

bostjan said:


> The longer this pandemic drags on, the more likely we will see more small brands like BCR cave in on themselves. As a BCR enthusiast, I'm not even all that stoked to see the brand relaunch full of abalone and crazy burls. What few seem to be out there are getting mediocre reviews. Maybe when the pandemic is over in 2062 or whatever, the brand can relaunch for ultranostalgic kids, similar to how Danelectro relaunched in the late 90's.


I've seen nothing but good reviews. Has there been a lot of negative stuff about the new models?


----------



## Dawn of the Shred

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> When I heard Harpoon headstock I was expecting this massive hunka wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



My favorite B.C. Rich headstock for Warlocks and IronBirds


----------



## Hollowway

I’m personally hoping for a Shredzilla 8 with Floyd in a non-abalone finish. I almost bought one of the current models when they came out, but heard of the more spartan release under development, and decided to wait.


----------



## spudmunkey

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> When I heard Harpoon headstock I was expecting this massive hunka wood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But nah, it looks like they went with a sleeker looking one. I dig it more tbh.


This one reminds me too much of Hordak from She-Ra.


----------



## jonsick

_*Kind of on but off topic...*_

As the current BC Rich hard case seems to be discontinued, who makes the best fitting BC Rich Warlock case at the moment? Definitely hard case and not gig bag. I would buy the BC Rich Custom one, but it's now discontinued and the cheapest I've found the last remaining one is nearly £450 by a scalper.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

jonsick said:


> _*Kind of on but off topic...*_
> 
> As the current BC Rich hard case seems to be discontinued, who makes the best fitting BC Rich Warlock case at the moment? Definitely hard case and not gig bag. I would buy the BC Rich Custom one, but it's now discontinued and the cheapest I've found the last remaining one is nearly £450 by a scalper.



Does Gator still make the "Universal Extreme" and are they affordable where you are?


----------



## Viginez

spudmunkey said:


> I'vew never paid much attention to BC Rich over the years, but that's the best-looking headstock for the Ironbird I've seen.


gotta see the whole guitar first, but it looks kinda slick, not bad. wonder how it'd look reversed.
my favorite for the ironbird is the modern inline reversed.


----------



## jonsick

MaxOfMetal said:


> Does Gator still make the "Universal Extreme" and are they affordable where you are?



They do but it's just so damned big. I mean, a case that's almost 3x the size of the guitar isn't really what I'm after. Car space is a premium!


----------



## bostjan

STRHelvete said:


> I've seen nothing but good reviews. Has there been a lot of negative stuff about the new models?


Reviews I've seen weren't overly negative, but weren't enthusiastic, either, just sort of lukewarm. But there aren't that many reviews to begin with... yet. It seems like a lot of people are waiting.


----------



## spudmunkey

In a few mins, Herman Li's going to be talking to the CEO on his Twitch channel. No idea is anything interesting could/would come from that conversation as far as the current direction of the company.


----------



## JimF

He had a conversation with that guy previously I believe. Wonder if he can pronounce Nyatoh probably or still calls it "Natoyah"


----------



## Rev2010

JimF said:


> Wonder if he can pronounce Nyatoh probably or still calls it "Natoyah"



Maybe that's because BC Rich used to advertise their guitars as having "Nato (Eastern Mahogany)" for body wood.


----------



## JimF

Nato isn't pronounce "natoyah" either  Still pretty shoddy of a CEO to not be able to pronounce materials of his products. Just a pet peeve of mine I guess.


----------



## Viginez

spudmunkey said:


> This one says "legacy series"...is that a part of the import line?


i don't know if the legacy models are only imports. this usa stealth is offered as a legacy model too, but it's not written on the headstock
https://reverb.com/item/45711619-b-...dium=affiliate&utm_source=partnerstack-legacy


----------



## STRHelvete

spudmunkey said:


> In a few mins, Herman Li's going to be talking to the CEO on his Twitch channel. No idea is anything interesting could/would come from that conversation as far as the current direction of the company.


----------



## TornAnus

How different is a bc rich v from a Jackson king v? Body size


----------



## Rosal76

TornAnus said:


> How different is a bc rich v from a Jackson king v? Body size



As far as different shapes...

From what I have seen, B.C. Rich have designed/built 5 V shapes. B.C. Rich history/records regarding their shapes and their different variations is kind of confusing if not wonky.

Draco.







Speed V/Kerry King V. Straight lines inside the V.






Jr. V. Inside lines towards the tips are a little slanted. Overall body appears to be thinner than the Speed V/Kerry King V.






Matt Tuck V.






According to what a B.C. Rich employee told me back in 2000, Cannibal corpse guitarist, Pat O'Brien, asked them if they could build him a 7 string Jr. V with the horns extended. I think the employee told me that they extended the horns by an inch or something. Not too hard to believe because ex-Deicide guitarist, Brian Hoffman, asked them to make the horns on a Warlock guitar longer and they built it for him. But anyways, below is a group shot of Pat's first 3 U.S. custom shop V guitars. The 7 string is the Jr. V with the longer horns, the middle one (red bevels) is a regular size Jr. V and the one on the right is a Speed V/Kerry King V.




As far as size comparisons with a Jackson King V, I would think the regular size Jr. V would be the closest but can't be sure 100%.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

STRHelvete said:


>



Hahahah! Nice.


----------



## pahulkster

I wonder if Pat lost all those Vs. Hope not.


----------



## STRHelvete

pahulkster said:


> I wonder if Pat lost all those Vs. Hope not.


Ugh...why'd ya have to go right for the feels? Poor Pat


----------



## Edika

Rosal76 said:


> As far as size comparisons with a Jackson King V, I would think the regular size Jr. V would be the closest but can't be sure 100%.



I used to own a BC Rich jrV, it is narrower than a Jackson King V so smaller body size. The Kerry king V would be closer to the Jackson KV size,


----------



## STRHelvete

Edika said:


> I used to own a BC Rich jrV, it is narrower than a Jackson King V so smaller body size. The Kerry king V would be closer to the Jackson KV size,


Which is why it's called a jrV *punchline drumfill*


----------



## Rosal76

pahulkster said:


> I wonder if Pat lost all those Vs. Hope not.



Pat's guitars were recovered but unfortunately, some of them had received fire damage. Scooter of Granville Guitars showed pictures of them on his Facebook page last March. Scooter is the guitar tech for Cannibal corpse and Morbid angel. He does guitar/bass set ups, repair work, modifications, etc, etc, etc.

All pictures are from the Granville Guitars Facebook page.

Of all the pictures I have seen, this one seems to have the most fire damage.











The guitar look better now, after Scooter cleaned/repaired some of the damage.






I didn't see any damage on this guitar. May have been in it's guitar case.






Pat's Ran guitar.






Kerry King says, "What??? Your B.C. Rich V guitars can't handle heat". LOL. I'm just joking.






Buy anyways, if you want to see more pictures of Pat's guitars, it's on Granville Guitars' Facebook page. You do have to scroll down to March 29 where the first pictures start and/or go to the photos and scroll down through those. He also has cool pictures of Erik Rutans Ironbird guitars. Both his 6 and 7 string models.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Rosal76 said:


> Kerry King says, "What??? Your B.C. Rich V guitars can't handle heat". LOL. I'm just joking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Buy anyways, if you want to see more pictures of Pat's guitars, it's on Granville Guitars' Facebook page. You do have to scroll down to March 29 where the first pictures start and/or go to the photos and scroll down through those. He also has cool pictures of Erik Rutans Ironbird guitars. Both his 6 and 7 string models.




Holy shit that is an ugly guitar. Its like he saw the Dime-o-flame and said "Holy my beer."


----------



## STRHelvete

I loved the KK shape with the Beast headstock. I always thought they were bigger though until I realized King is just short


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Relieved to see Pat’s guitars are still in tact, dudes a great player and I wish him the best.


----------



## bjjman

soul_lip_mike said:


> Holy shit that is an ugly guitar. Its like he saw the Dime-o-flame and said "Holy my beer."


I was recently offered one as a trade for an Ibanez RG I have posted for sale. Declined politely, managing not to use the phrase 'butt ugly'.


----------



## IbanezDaemon

I'm eyeing up a brand new (apparently) Shredzilla in the UK at like £500 off the asking price. Don't like the colour, has the OTT abalone as well BUT wouldn't mind trying one out cos they do have decent spec and it has Fishman Moderns which I've never had the pleasure....any use or all hype guys?


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

IbanezDaemon said:


> I'm eyeing up a brand new (apparently) Shredzilla in the UK at like £500 off the asking price. Don't like the colour, has the OTT abalone as well BUT wouldn't mind trying one out cos they do have decent spec and it has Fishman Moderns which I've never had the pleasure....any use or all hype guys?


I only have one experience with Moderns, I tried them on a 5150III combo and with an import Jackson that had them stock. They were decent for sure, but. I think EMG’s do it better and are overall a better sound to my ears. The moderns had some weird EQ inherent to them that wasn’t my cup of tea. I think they’re overhyped. Give me my EMG’s.


----------



## IbanezDaemon

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> I only have one experience with Moderns, I tried them on a 5150III combo and with an import Jackson that had them stock. They were decent for sure, but. I think EMG’s do it better and are overall a better sound to my ears. The moderns had some weird EQ inherent to them that wasn’t my cup of tea. I think they’re overhyped. Give me my EMG’s.



Cool! Thanks for the heads up. I like higher output pups so it sounds like these won't cut it.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

IbanezDaemon said:


> Cool! Thanks for the heads up. I like higher output pups so it sounds like these won't cut it.


moderns are high output tho. They slam the front end more than EMGs ime, and voice 1 is like a clearer, tighter emg 81. In the right guitar they're pretty good imo.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

soul_lip_mike said:


> Holy shit that is an ugly guitar. Its like he saw the Dime-o-flame and said "Holy my beer."


His guitars have been ugly for decades. Why single any of these dreadful guitars out now?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Off topic but I didn't realize Pat switched to Fluences. Probably why Erik and now Rob uses them now. 

Pretty damn cool they were able to save all of his guitars though.

Also shitty headstock aside, I loved the Matt Tuck V.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Off topic but I didn't realize Pat switched to Fluences. Probably why Erik and now Rob uses them now.
> 
> Pretty damn cool they were able to save all of his guitars though.
> 
> Also shitty headstock aside, I loved the Matt Tuck V.


I don’t. I think it looks horrible. His Jacksons looked spectacular. These look hideous.


----------



## STRHelvete

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Off topic but I didn't realize Pat switched to Fluences. Probably why Erik and now Rob uses them now.
> 
> Pretty damn cool they were able to save all of his guitars though.
> 
> Also shitty headstock aside, I loved the Matt Tuck V.


Yeah that headstock was a super weird choice and I don't know why they thought people would want it


----------



## Loomer

I really hope Pat is doing better. From what I read when shit went South it seemed like dude was having a really, really bad time. Really hope he's getting good help and getting better.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Loomer said:


> I really hope Pat is doing better. From what I read when shit went South it seemed like dude was having a really, really bad time. Really hope he's getting good help and getting better.



For anyone interested, he was sentenced to five years probation, random blood alcohol and drug tests, and has to see a mental health professional regularly. He also had to pay something like $30k in fines and restitution. 

There have been sightings of him by fans "in the wild" at bars, restaurants, the street, etc. and most folks report he's been pretty normal, quiet, nice, friendly.

I really hope he's able to get back to music at some point. He's been one of my biggest influences.


----------



## STRHelvete

Spaced Out Ace said:


> His guitars have been ugly for decades. Why single any of these dreadful guitars out now?


The paint jobs have been ugly but the guitars are badass.


----------



## Spicypickles

MaxOfMetal said:


> For anyone interested, he was sentenced to five years probation, random blood alcohol and drug tests, and has to see a mental health professional regularly. He also had to pay something like $30k in fines and restitution.
> 
> There have been sightings of him by fans "in the wild" at bars, restaurants, the street, etc. and most folks report he's been pretty normal, quiet, nice, friendly.
> 
> I really hope he's able to get back to music at some point. He's been one of my biggest influences.



“subject to random blood alcohol tests”

“seen in bars, etc”

should go down well


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Spicypickles said:


> “subject to random blood alcohol tests”
> 
> “seen in bars, etc”
> 
> should go down well



I've been sober for years, but used to (pre-pandemic) go to bars from time to time with groups of friends and family. 

No one cares what you drink. Just have fun. 

For what it's worth, sobriety is part of Pat's probation terms, which are sort of "one size fits most", and it hasn't been disclosed if drugs or alcohol played a part in the craziness that night. Reports were that he passed both a breathalyzer and preliminary drug screening, at least for anything illicit.


----------



## Spicypickles

In a lot of states you can’t even enter bars if you’re on probation. But I get it, it’s possible.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Spicypickles said:


> In a lot of states you can’t even enter bars if you’re on probation. But I get it, it’s possible.



Never doubt what Florida will or won't allow.


----------



## Mathemagician

MaxOfMetal said:


> Never doubt what Florida will or won't allow.



When in doubt the answer is “Yes”.


----------



## pahulkster

Thanks for the pictures. I watch the Granville youtube channel but never go on Facebook. 

On the subject of death metal BC Rich guitars, this one is killer.


----------



## TornAnus

They discontinued the propechy line I just read. One run of guitars full of QC issues and that's it.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

TornAnus said:


> They discontinued the propechy line I just read. One run of guitars full of QC issues and that's it.



Source?


----------



## TornAnus

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Source?


BC Rich junkies Facebook group.


----------



## Loomer

TornAnus said:


> BC Rich junkies Facebook group.



I don't know if I would be inclined to completely trust info originating in that group. There's some good folks there, sure, but by God there are some busted-ass, coked-up Boomer dipshits of the highest order as well.


----------



## Marked Man

TornAnus said:


> They discontinued the propechy line I just read. One run of guitars full of QC issues and that's it.



Shame. 

All I can say is that I am a big fan of the Legacy line, and my Bich performs.


----------



## TornAnus

Loomer said:


> I don't know if I would be inclined to completely trust info originating in that group. There's some good folks there, sure, but by God there are some busted-ass, coked-up Boomer dipshits of the highest order as well.


I agree with you but the source was a guy who had an order in and thomann canceled order and said discontinued according to bc rich. Bill Xavier keeps blowing smoke up everyone's ass making excuses. When I see these guitars actually at dealers ready to ship I will believe it.


----------



## jonsick

I would tend to agree. I don't think the Prophecy line has been discontinued by BC Rich themselves, rather European dealers de-cataloguing them as they are proving near impossible to get shipped.

I had an order in for a Prophecy warlock that kept getting pushed back which was on order for about 9 months until Thomann too decided that they couldn't get any assurances on ETA so wanted to cancel the order. It's fair enough I get it.

The entire guitar world however is experiencing supply chain issues. BC Rich are in effect a brand new company which has had to create its supply chain pretty much from scratch. It is not like Fender for example who also own Jackson and could create a supply chain whereby some of the Pro series could be made in Mexico and engage in the same supply chain as the MIM Fenders. That's just the closest example I can think of at the second. BC Rich does not have a supply chain that it can piggy back onto.

Given that, BC Rich are not the only ones with a shortage. I had to wait 10 months for an E-II M-II in see thru black which I was initially told would be 8-12 weeks. So I fully believe that as supply issues are kicking everyone's butt, the newer companies and lower down people are getting the worst of it.

I work in fields separate to guitars, but even we are feeling supply issues. Not only has container cost skyrocketed, due to supply issues downstream of us we are seeing higher failure rates, poorly made SUKs that don't pass QC and a lot of component level parts that are just too low quality for what we need.

I'm guessing given that someone else cited QC issues too, BC Rich are doing the same as almost any industry. That is asking, can we get away with shipping that out and letting warranty handle any issues? Can we make one good one from three bad ones? How much pre-distribution work needs to be done on a container's worth before we decline the whole shipment? 

None of it is easy and as a result everyone's feeling the pinch. The shortage in guitars, parts, etc that we are seeing is just all that stuff rolling uphill and we as the consumers are finally seeing it.

Another case in point, I bought a pack of basil leaves recently from a supermarket. I opened them that night to find every single one of them were rotten. I opened the pack of sage and same thing.

I went back to the store to see a bunch of people returning or complaining about the same. I've also noticed the quality of my tea bags has declined (the amount of bags that split open as soon as you pour the water in has dramatically increased) and the shower curtain rail that I just paid £129 for came with two mounting clips missing and the rail itself wouldn't fit into one of the receptacles on the clip that was supplied.

Things cost more and are lower quality. We are just seeing it tenfold now.

Or maybe I'm just talking guff, or getting near political, or maybe nobody really wants to hear about a bag of rotten basil. 

To me the simplest way to answer is if you want something, order it. If it shows up, awesome. If it shows up bad, return it.


----------



## Perge

Missing a string, but it's still pointy


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Erik Rutan 6 string?


----------



## Perge

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Erik Rutan 6 string?


I'm assuming. The wording is vague 

"You asked for the import version ... they are coming in 2022"

But what else would it be, right?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Yeah It is, I see it now.  Moderns, same inlays, etc etc.


----------



## BusinessMan

Perge said:


> Missing a string, but it's still pointy
> View attachment 102105



If only it was the 7...


----------



## Mathemagician

Perge said:


> Missing a string, but it's still pointy
> View attachment 102105



Now do a 7.


----------



## dhgrind

Mathemagician said:


> Now do a 7.



Now deliver them at all


----------



## JimF

The responses & comments I've seen on Instagram & Facebook are simply tearing them to shreds for the non delivery of all the 2021 guitars.


----------



## Mathemagician

JimF said:


> The responses & comments I've seen on Instagram & Facebook are simply tearing them to shreds for the non delivery of all the 2021 guitars.



Willing to bet they start deleting those shortly. It’s unfortunate timing for everyone involved. I can’t imagine waiting on a production model and not seeing it 1.5+ years out. Same reason I’m not expecting any cool Ibby’s/ESP’s until next year too.


----------



## TornAnus

JimF said:


> The responses & comments I've seen on Instagram & Facebook are simply tearing them to shreds for the non delivery of all the 2021 guitars.


Hype new model -> take pre-orders -> never deliver guitar or explain why not -> repeat

This is the bc rich business model. Fuck them.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

first rule of buying anything, never ever preorder.
I got screwed over preordering a legion nihilist, and it took years for the ormsbys i ordered to show up.


----------



## STRHelvete

TornAnus said:


> Hype new model -> take pre-orders -> never deliver guitar or explain why not -> repeat
> 
> This is the bc rich business model. Fuck them.


Hasn't it been explained to death? Not to mention it's common sense why things haven't shown up.


----------



## CanserDYI

I played one of the newer Ironbird Extreme the other day, actually was suuuuuuper cool instrument, and felt very very quality. Bums me out that the company behind it is such shit right now.


----------



## TornAnus

STRHelvete said:


> Hasn't it been explained to death? Not to mention it's common sense why things haven't shown up.


Stop making promises on shit you can't deliver and maybe give the customers an explanation why you build a batch of guitars, they can't pass QC and instead of rebuilding them you just say fuck it and cancel the product all together and then hype an identical shape guitar the next month.


----------



## jonsick

TornAnus said:


> Stop making promises on shit you can't deliver and maybe give the customers an explanation why you build a batch of guitars, they can't pass QC and instead of rebuilding them you just say fuck it and cancel the product all together and then hype an identical shape guitar the next month.



Not to leap to the total defence of BCR or whomever is behind the scenes here, but I think there's a few things to say on this sort of attitude - which isn't entirely unreasonable to be fair to you (and people saying the same thing).

While some communication of what happened would have served BC Rich far better than what they have done, it's swings and roundabouts. They have already hinted that their batches of guitars pretty much failed QC. That in itself is pretty respectable. You only need look at the current state of Solar who appear to be allowing some pretty egregious flaws come out of their factories, or to point further fingers Jackson's import lines are most certainly slipping for sure. I had to return my DK2 Pro twice before I got one that didn't have some pretty obvious problems. 

But leaving the whataboutism alone for a second, I'm not sure BC Rich could have made a statement that would have totally appeased their masses. They already have to do damage control with their distributors and retailers. And let's be fair about it, as far as I know, nobody has lost money on this. That is, nobody has preordered a guitar for it not to show up and there are no refunds. OK sure, waiting all that time before being told that the product cannot be provided here's your money back is a little disheartening but you did at least get your money back. I know because I did too.

The issue BC Rich have right now is rebuilding trust. While I understand all to well the issue with materials supply and the very real decline in quality of both materials and so-called finished goods being imported to the UK completely outside the realms of guitars or music in general, not everyone does and I appreciate that. From your perspective, you ordered something and BC Rich couldn't deliver. Surely it is better to be told it can't be done, get your money back rather than ship out a bunch of guitars with bad quality issues which not only tarnishes the image further but leaves you, the customer, in a position where you now have to argue about it, return it, wait even longer for it to likely not show up, or be gulled with some B-Stock rubbish that can't really be fixed easily.

Right now, I am betting BC Rich are having in depth discussions with their suppliers, builders and manufacturers to discuss options, what went wrong where, why it went wrong and how much recourse they have. I am sure BC Rich are hurting really bad if they have had to essentially write of an entire financial year. Their only hope is to keep investors interested enough to ride out this storm, allow them to correct the issues and in doing so have to engage their customer base with future products that they would be interested to buy, gauge reaction and commitment to the brand and then secure the supply and finances in order to supply those lines.

To put another way, a company I'm associated with (nothing to do with music) has for the second time had to enter negotiations with our overseas suppliers due to the quality of the goods we import from them being so low we cannot actually provide the thing that they go into. That is to put the thing we import into our main UPC which is reliant on it would cause either immediate or premature in-field failure. And thus would be a huge decrease in quality and hurt the company branding. Right now, any products going out the door are refurb units made from old ex-repair stock with heavy discounts and extended warranty with a few minor parts being fabricated either in house or by an external sheet metal company. But any company cannot function in that manner for too long, the only thing saving our necks is the fact that we have a low amount of competition. I have every expectation that BC Rich must be exercising some sort of quality agreement in their supply chain's contracts in order to remedy future lines.

Given that they're writing off an entire year's worth of goods from particular UPCs, they have a couple of options. They either remanufacture all those goods despite that the public impression of those UPCs are extremely low in that users expect them now to be of low quality or unlikely to be delivered. Or they scrap the UPCs totally in an attempt to consign the reputation they had to the ether and restart with new UPCs most likely finetuned to what their customer base possibly wants with assurances from their suppliers that they will improve. Either that, or change supplier altogether, I have no idea what BC Rich are doing.

OK sure, there are some guys saying they wish that red Ironbird was a 7 string, there will probably be another guy along in a minute to vent that it doesn't have this bridge or that bridge, and I'm sure there's someone out there who wants it in day-glo pink. But let's face it. A red Ironbird of that configuration has been pretty much spec'd on purpose to appeal to the masses. And it's not a daft move by BC Rich. If the takeaway from releasing those images are "Wow, I would totally buy that, but I doubt it will turn up" then BC Rich have something to show their investors that they have a viable product on their hands so long as the supply issue can be resolved.

But as you say, given the total lack of communication on the matter, it does sully even my own belief that we'll ever see an "In Stock - Ready To Ship" green light on any retailer site even for this UPC. Maybe I'm totally right and whatever has gone wrong in their supply chain is fixed and we can start expecting guitars to be on shelves by Q2, or maybe it's smokescreens and mirrors in an attempt to get their investors back on board or keep lines of communication open with their suppliers in order to stay viable until a buyout can occur. To my mind, it's only one of those two things.

They are sort of in a damned if they do and damned if they don't position. And really it totally is down to the investors as to whether they keep the doors open. The whole thing, especially writing of an entire year's income and having to fulfil break clauses in distributor contracts, is a huge problem for a company in it's first two years of operation and I would be amazed if they actually survive this. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if whomever is in charge of BC Rich isn't sat in a 3-piece suit right now in some office attempting to negotiate some sort of life-saving investment deal or potentially attempting a buyout. Either that or they've turned into a Walter White to keep the thing going. 

From my (limited) business knowledge and experience, this sort of problem in its second year usually marks the end for any new company. And remember, BC Rich in its current incarnation is a brand new company! They have not had any supply chain, administration or corporate entity to inherit from the name. Contrast that to say Fender when they bought Jackson and started re-jigging the import guitars, they had entire supply chains for Jackson to piggy back onto. That is a typical DK2 Pro could be made on the very next bench to a Fender Strat in Mexico, or Fender can dip into supply chains serving other brands, e.g. Squire, to manufacture their low-end series guitars side by side. BC Rich didn't start with any of that. 

I guess like everyone else, it's wait and see. Personally if BC Rich can start delivering good products then I would be happy to throw the cash into one. Or two, who knows. While I couldn't quite get on board with the abalone-fest of the initial releases, the extreme series were evidently quite good guitars. Who knows what the future will bring. But as BC Rich said at the start, they don't want to release low end Bronze-series-alike guitars, everything neckthru and everything good quality. So far to me, they seem to be at least attempting to uphold that mission statement. I do think they are missing a huge cross-section of the market by not attempting to compete with the lower priced offerings of Jackson, LTD, Epiphone, etc. But it's their mission statement, not mine.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

I only made it like a fifth of the way through that, but I think the problem is that was several times more engaging than BCR has been with customers since BCR 6.0 started.


----------



## mxbraud

Perge said:


> Missing a string, but it's still pointy
> View attachment 102105


I WANT THIS!!
Why is this not even shown on the website?
This company is a MESS!


----------



## Viginez

they have a website?


----------



## Sslfetish

Viginez said:


> they have a website?


Well here's a little sunshine in all this doom and gloom. Just arrived from RBG.


----------



## Viginez

not a fan of the 'zilla shape at all


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Sslfetish said:


> Well here's a little sunshine in all this doom and gloom. Just arrived from RBG.
> View attachment 102180
> View attachment 102181
> View attachment 102182



how do you like it?


----------



## tedtan

I like that its not bling, though.

And was actually delivered.


----------



## manu80

if they release it in candy purple....


----------



## Sslfetish

TheBolivianSniper said:


> how do you like it?



So far so good. A little fret buzz at 16 but otherwise qc is spot on. No blemishes. Goes into tech next week for proper set up and a fret dressing. Not bad at all for the money being neck thru and proper Floyd.


----------



## Sslfetish

Oh and this arrived as well. I know it's not to manys liking but the matte neck is wonderfully silky and the headstock is a bonus.


----------



## Perge

Sslfetish said:


> View attachment 102193
> Oh and this arrived as well. I know it's not to manys liking but the matte neck is wonderfully silky and the headstock is a bonus.
> View attachment 102192


As someone who has never been a big abalone fan, I actually really liked these minus the 12th fret inlay (always something right?)


----------



## Sslfetish

Perge said:


> As someone who has never been a big abalone fan, I actually really liked these minus the 12th fret inlay (always something right?)


Lol right. There are a few tricks to dull down the bling ... ultimately the cost per quality ratio here is very good. I played an import Jackson Mick Thompson a week ago and was shocked at the qc. Chunks outta the neck edge? Cracks where the straps hooks were? They knocked off a $100 for him but still. A free case wouldn't have been enough for me. Everytime I passed the 9th fret I physiologically felt the chip.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

mxbraud said:


> I WANT THIS!!
> Why is this not even shown on the website?
> This company is a MESS!



If you understood who's running social media for them you'd understand why this has been one unmitigated shit show the whole time. 

I get building hype, but you gotta ground it folks get ornery.


----------



## Mathemagician

Sslfetish said:


> Well here's a little sunshine in all this doom and gloom. Just arrived from RBG.
> View attachment 102180
> View attachment 102181
> View attachment 102182



I need a dive bomb and flutter report! Lol. That looks good. Like the 22 frets. 



Sslfetish said:


> View attachment 102193
> Oh and this arrived as well. I know it's not to manys liking but the matte neck is wonderfully silky and the headstock is a bonus.
> View attachment 102192



That neck looks amazing. Big respect for their heel carve.


----------



## Sslfetish

Viginez said:


> not a fan of the 'zilla shape at all


It's not a zilla shape.


----------



## spudmunkey

Sslfetish said:


> It's not a zilla shape.



It's a "Gunslinger II" model (right?), but it's the more modern version, where the body is based on their Shredzilla model.


----------



## Sslfetish

spudmunkey said:


> It's a "Gunslinger II" model (right?), but it's the more modern version, where the body is based on their Shredzilla model.
> 
> View attachment 102220
> View attachment 102221
> View attachment 102223


They are 2 different guitars.


----------



## spudmunkey

Right, the contours are different, but the outline is the shape of the Shredzilla. I remember watching a video interview with the CEO, where he specifically mentioned the two different shapes for the Gunslinger: one based on the old one (the legacy), and the new modern one (gunslinger II prophecy) based on the Shredzilla silhouette. 

Overlapped:


----------



## Sslfetish

spudmunkey said:


> Right, the contours are different, but the outline is the shape of the Shredzilla. I remember watching a video interview with the CEO, where he specifically mentioned the two different shapes for the Gunslinger: one based on the old one (the legacy), and the new modern one (gunslinger II prophecy) based on the Shredzilla silhouette.
> 
> Overlapped:
> View attachment 102227


Ok it's pointier. It plays different , it weighs different , it's not related to an extreme sport strat. I assure you. I have a few.


----------



## spudmunkey

Sslfetish said:


> Ok it's pointier. It plays different , it weighs different , it's not related to an extreme sport strat. I assure you. I have a few.



Right...but all of this was because someone said "I don't like the 'zilla shape", and you said it isn't. It is. If you drew the outline of each, and put them side-by-side, they'd be virtually identical.


----------



## Loomer

MaxOfMetal said:


> If you understood who's running social media for them you'd understand why this has been one unmitigated shit show the whole time.
> 
> I get building hype, but you gotta ground it folks get ornery.



Now I'm curious: Who _is_ running their social media?! Is it actually Zoltan himself?!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Loomer said:


> Now I'm curious: Who _is_ running their social media?! Is it actually Zoltan himself?!



Someone run off numerous forums and groups, including this one, for being shady as shit and known for hyping stuff just to dump it.


----------



## Loomer

MaxOfMetal said:


> Someone run off numerous forums and groups, including this one, for being shady as shit and known for hyping stuff just to dump it.



Now, the depressing part of this is that this club isn't as small and exclusive as one would have hoped  This could be a LOT of people.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Loomer said:


> Now, the depressing part of this is that this club isn't as small and exclusive as one would have hoped  This could be a LOT of people.



Not really. It wasn't a builder or anything.


----------



## Loomer

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not really. It wasn't a builder or anything.



Still lots of shady dudes out there  I am no closer to knowing who it is AT ALL


----------



## Adieu

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not really. It wasn't a builder or anything.



Aww

Would've been hilarious if it were one of the better-known fugitive delinquent builders


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Adieu said:


> Aww
> 
> Would've been hilarious if it were one of the better-known fugitive delinquent builders



Bernie tried to get involved but croaked.


----------



## Mathemagician

His 7 string is 26.5. I’d love to see that make it to the production model 7.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

MaxOfMetal said:


> Someone run off numerous forums and groups, including this one, for being shady as shit and known for hyping stuff just to dump it.



ooooh
oooooooh....


----------



## jco5055

MaxOfMetal said:


> Someone run off numerous forums and groups, including this one, for being shady as shit and known for hyping stuff just to dump it.



would be a shame to....engage with him


----------



## mxbraud

Who THE F**K is it??


----------



## twguitar

If there's one thing you can rely on BCR consistently doing, it's being frustrating as hell.

I love the brand and will always support it but it's an absolute miracle it still exists in any form.


----------



## ArtDecade

twguitar said:


> If there's one thing you can rely on BCR consistently doing, it's being frustrating as hell.
> 
> I love the brand and will always support it but it's an absolute miracle it still exists in any form.



As a Washburn user, get to the back of the line. You can't even begin to imagine frustration yet! LOL.


----------



## Hollowway

Sslfetish said:


> View attachment 102193
> Oh and this arrived as well. I know it's not to manys liking but the matte neck is wonderfully silky and the headstock is a bonus.
> View attachment 102192


Forget the guitars, how are we not talking about your house yet?! What state/country do you live in that you have that kick ass interior?


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Hollowway said:


> Forget the guitars, how are we not talking about your house yet?! What state/country do you live in that you have that kick ass interior?



His guitars appear to be in his kitchen.


----------



## Hollowway

soul_lip_mike said:


> His guitars appear to be in his kitchen.


Because he's got a tasty collection, that's why.


----------



## mastapimp

MaxOfMetal said:


> Someone run off numerous forums and groups, including this one, for being shady as shit and known for hyping stuff just to dump it.


Does he claim to have a Swedish luthier as a great grandfather and know good wood cause it's "in his blood?"


----------



## ArtDecade

mastapimp said:


> Does he claim to have a Swedish luthier as a great grandfather and know good wood cause it's "in his blood?"



I think most of us know good wood when we see it. Ammiright? High-five!


----------



## spudmunkey

ArtDecade said:


> I think most of us know good wood when we see it. Ammiright? High-five!


We sure do, my man. I'm pickin' up what you're puttin' down.

You mean these guys, right? Yeah, they did the millwork for my old office.
https://www.goodwood.co/


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

ArtDecade said:


> I think most of us know good wood when we see it. Ammiright? High-five!



oh I know good wood by touch ALONE 


wait


----------



## Tree

jco5055 said:


> would be a shame to....engage with him



Is it seriously him? God he’s a frustrating rat.


----------



## MFB

MaxOfMetal said:


> Someone run off numerous forums and groups, including this one, for being shady as shit and known for hyping stuff just to dump it.



I've got two guesses and I genuinely can't tell which one would be considered the more expected of them


----------



## Sslfetish

Stuff ...


----------



## Sslfetish

^^^^^ funny , no one noticed what's different on those 2 ....


----------



## mlp187

Sslfetish said:


> ^^^^^ funny , no one noticed what's different on those 2 ....


Pickups? Or faux neck pickup?


----------



## Sslfetish

Ha! Winner. Both. Put in Fishman at bridge and blocked off the neck with a mahogany block topped with ebony so I can play of it. I tune d and c standard on those 2.


----------



## Mathemagician

Sslfetish said:


> Ha! Winner. Both. Put in Fishman at bridge and blocked off the neck with a mahogany block topped with ebony so I can play of it. I tune d and c standard on those 2.



I initially read “mahogany tone block” and was like “well you got overcharged.”

Nope, just my skepticism getting ahead of me. They are well done though, wouldn’t notice at a glance.


----------



## Sslfetish

Mathemagician said:


> I initially read “mahogany tone block” and was like “well you got overcharged.”
> 
> 
> Nope, just my skepticism getting ahead of me. They are well done though, wouldn’t notice at a glance.


----------



## Sslfetish

It just gives me a little more playing space on those tunings. A habit a picked up from neck EMG's on Jackson's. Ebony is much nicer than plastic lol


----------



## PhantomLord

Listed on their site 1900$ (floyd one is 1800$)


----------



## PhantomLord

Also who is Erik Ratan? is he the evil mexican twin?


----------



## STRHelvete

BC Rich is really bringing their A game in terms of quality and specs. The price is gonna cause some grumbles but hey, everyone wanted pro level BC Rich guitars and not the cheap stuff they'd been stereotyped with so..gotta pay to play. I'm not even an Ironbird fan. It's probably my least favorite shape but that mk1 is sweet


----------



## manu80

1900$ ? Korea? really ?


----------



## STRHelvete

manu80 said:


> 1900$ ? Korea? really ?


See?


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

STRHelvete said:


> BC Rich is really bringing their A game in terms of quality and specs. The price is gonna cause some grumbles but hey, everyone wanted pro level BC Rich guitars and not the cheap stuff they'd been stereotyped with so..gotta pay to play. I'm not even an Ironbird fan. It's probably my least favorite shape but that mk1 is sweet



Yeah literally people are exploding over these prices but like it's not like you're gonna find a U series for less than 2k and that's the only way to get a neck through one of those with halfway decent quality

they've also got fancy wood djentsticks for the kids on the prophecy line and like if they can actually deliver those I think they'll finally have some sticking power, no one slaps fancy woods like that around and I think it's done quite well


----------



## STRHelvete

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Yeah literally people are exploding over these prices but like it's not like you're gonna find a U series for less than 2k and that's the only way to get a neck through one of those with halfway decent quality
> 
> they've also got fancy wood djentsticks for the kids on the prophecy line and like if they can actually deliver those I think they'll finally have some sticking power, no one slaps fancy woods like that around and I think it's done quite well


Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like people want ultra pro guitars for next to nothing. I kinda understand as some companies manage to do budget friendly guitars loaded with high end specs, BUT that's not every brand. You aren't getting a fully loaded BC Rich for under a grand. So save up a little longer and buy it


----------



## JimF

Would it have anything to do with MSRP vs street price? I'm in the UK so that doesn't feature as heavily over here i.e. not every dealer discounts, and many sell at RRP. 
I think its also to do with the fact that whilst Far East guitars have improved immeasurably in quality, people's brains haven't updated to adjust from 2005 pricing, still remembering when a Jackson SL2 was $2500 etc


----------



## Viginez

btw thats the hybrid kahler, not the pro...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

JimF said:


> Would it have anything to do with MSRP vs street price? I'm in the UK so that doesn't feature as heavily over here i.e. not every dealer discounts, and many sell at RRP.
> I think its also to do with the fact that whilst Far East guitars have improved immeasurably in quality, people's brains haven't updated to adjust from 2005 pricing, still remembering when a Jackson SL2 was $2500 etc



Bitching about price has never not been a thing. You bet your ass back in 2002 everyone complained about how expensive things were and how bullshit it was that guitars over $800 weren't all made in the USA or Japan. 

Heck, I remember folks complaining in 1992 that USA Strats were $650, and how it was ridiculous that they could charge so much when they were like $350 in the 70's.


----------



## Sslfetish

Now for something completely different.... 

5 piece mahogany/maple Neck through construction with Narra sides. 25" Scale length 24 frets Ziricote Fretboard Mera Guitars Headless "Submarine3" bridge system Bareknuckle Aftermath Pickups Single 500k CTS Volume Pot Ebony volume knob


----------



## STRHelvete

Sslfetish said:


> Now for something completely different....
> 
> 5 piece mahogany/maple Neck through construction with Narra sides. 25" Scale length 24 frets Ziricote Fretboard Mera Guitars Headless "Submarine3" bridge system Bareknuckle Aftermath Pickups Single 500k CTS Volume Pot Ebony volume knob
> View attachment 102828
> View attachment 102829
> View attachment 102830


That is the ugliest piece of shit I've ever seen in my life and they should be ashamed of themselves for creating such a monstrosity


----------



## Sslfetish

STRHelvete said:


> That is the ugliest piece of shit I've ever seen in my life and they should be ashamed of themselves for creating such a monstrosity


Aw thanks. Does this make u feel better? Sorry I upset you.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Sslfetish said:


> Aw thanks. Does this make u feel better? Sorry I upset you.


I mean, he’s not wrong. That headstock is pretty out of place.


----------



## dhgrind

I mean weird choice on doing a headless on a stealth body but to each their own. It’s not awful just different. 

i saw a 9 string headless ironbird recently that was really cool.


----------



## maliciousteve

MaxOfMetal said:


> Bitching about price has never not been a thing. You bet your ass back in 2002 everyone complained about how expensive things were and how bullshit it was that guitars over $800 weren't all made in the USA or Japan.
> 
> Heck, I remember folks complaining in 1992 that USA Strats were $650, and how it was ridiculous that they could charge so much when they were like $350 in the 70's.



Thing is, once something like the Rutan signature is over here in the UK, that $2,299 will be roughly £2,199 due to exchange rates, import costs etc. That's actually the same price as a new Gibson Les Paul Standard. 

I don't know, maybe it's time to accept that it doesn't matter where a guitar is made any more because you'll be paying a crap load for some thing half decent now regardless, rather than how you used to be able to pay a reasonably affordable amount for something incredible.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

maliciousteve said:


> you used to be able to pay a reasonably affordable amount for something incredible.



That's a myth. 

Absolute quality has been going up relative to price for a long time, regardless of country of origin. You used to have to pay twice as much for half the guitar a few decades ago. 

Stuff coming out of Indonesia and South Korea, and even China, right now is just as good, if not better, than a lot of the Japanese and American stuff considered "mid range" in the 90's and into the early 00's.


----------



## død

dhgrind said:


> i saw a 9 string headless ironbird recently that was really cool.


That’s gotta be Ryan from Pound’s custom Roehrs you’re talking about there. That thing is fucking sick.


----------



## dhgrind

død said:


> That’s gotta be Ryan from Pound’s custom Roehrs you’re talking about there. That thing is fucking sick.



thats the one - I’d love to have an 8 string version of that


----------



## OmegaSlayer

I wonder why they don't release something like this anymore
I'd be drooling all over it
The model used by Ihsahn in The Loss and Curse of Reverence video


----------



## Sslfetish

Thus just in....


----------



## ArtDecade

^ Well, that neck has a certain look. Certainly.


----------



## Sslfetish

Indeed it does.


----------



## tedtan

Too much bling for a custom shop, so maybe its a good sign for the imports.

Or just more pics with nothing to come of them.


----------



## Tree

Sslfetish said:


> Aw thanks. Does this make u feel better? Sorry I upset you.


Please send me your Ghost Flame KV2. Thank you.


----------



## Sslfetish

Wow those Biden crack pipe 'hit kits' got out fast.


----------



## electriceye

STRHelvete said:


> BC Rich is really bringing their A game in terms of quality and specs. The price is gonna cause some grumbles but hey, everyone wanted pro level BC Rich guitars and not the cheap stuff they'd been stereotyped with so..gotta pay to play. I'm not even an Ironbird fan. It's probably my least favorite shape but that mk1 is sweet



(Good to see this thread still alive and well)

I came back to this thread because I almost broke my jaw when it hit the table after seeing what they're charging for the "new" Gunslingers. $3k. Absurd. Absolutely absurd. And they STILL didn't do the body correctly!


----------



## electriceye

twguitar said:


> If there's one thing you can rely on BCR consistently doing, it's being frustrating as hell.
> 
> I love the brand and will always support it but it's an absolute miracle it still exists in any form.


It doesn't exist any more, IMO. Just as some rube bought the Hamer name and makes them in Korea...but they're NOT Hamers. The BCR name now has, what it's 6th owner? The only thing alive now is the name, but it's certainly nothing like the original.


----------



## bloodocean

electriceye said:


> (Good to see this thread still alive and well)
> 
> I came back to this thread because I almost broke my jaw when it hit the table after seeing what they're charging for the "new" Gunslingers. $3k. Absurd. Absolutely absurd. And they STILL didn't do the body correctly!



It looks like the $3k gunslingers are made in the USA.

It’s still pretty steep for a bare bones super strat, but at least it’s not a 2X marked up MII or what have you.


----------



## neptoess

Viginez said:


> btw thats the hybrid kahler, not the pro...


Pros only make sense on custom shop builds or limited quantity builds. MSRP on a hybrid is still $300, over $100 more than a German-made Floyd (7300 is made in USA). A Pro would be about $100 more, for no noticeable difference. There’s also a supply chain concern. Kahler makes a lot more hybrids than pros.


----------



## possumkiller

OmegaSlayer said:


> I wonder why they don't release something like this anymore
> I'd be drooling all over it
> The model used by Ihsahn in The Loss and Curse of Reverence video
> View attachment 102996


Needs a reversed headstock and blacked out hardware. 

Ibanez did bring back the RG bass though.


----------



## TornAnus




----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

BC Rich? Missing release dates???!??!?!?!?!?!?


----------



## TornAnus

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> BC Rich? Missing release dates???!??!?!?!?!?!?


----------



## neptoess

Got one preordered. I’ll post here if/when it ships


TornAnus said:


> View attachment 105568


----------



## Marked Man

neptoess said:


> RP on a hybrid is still $300, over $100 more than a German-made Floyd (7300 is made in USA). A Pro would be about $100 more, for no noticeable difference. There’s also a supply chain concern.



The individual price difference on the Kahler website is only $300 Hybrid vs $390 for the 2315, not earth shattering. If you are talking about a hard to find guitar with a street price over $1500, I don't see the the point of skipping the 2315.


----------



## neptoess

Marked Man said:


> The individual price difference on the Kahler website is only $300 Hybrid vs $390 for the 2315, not earth shattering. If you are talking about a hard to find guitar with a street price over $1500, I don't see the the point of skipping the 2315.


The hybrid is likely available much cheaper/easier to OEMs than the Pro. I doubt, for instance, that the lead time and bulk discount on an order of 1000 2315s would be as attractive as on an order of the hybrids.

Either way, the hybrid is brass/brass, which matches the 2320 pro series. If you want a 2315, you can just swap the steel rollers onto the hybrid, which would cost all of $36 for a set of 6 from Whammy (https://www.whammyparts.com/make-mo...t-mounted/kahler-standard-roller-steel-detail). The hybrid and the pro are simply too close to justify raising the price of the guitar. The only difference between the hybrid w/ steel roller swap and a 2315 is the 5-hole cam and where it was made. Same process, same materials, same QC processes.

These guitars are already $1900 with no case or gig bag, $100 more than the Floyd version. When you consider the fact that the LTD SD-2 is made in the same factory, looks very similar, has very similar specs, comes with a hardshell, and only costs $1500, BCR is already way too expensive. They’ll sell to people like me who lust over the old US-made MK1 birds, but don’t want to shell out thousands for the rare beat up old ones that actually come up for sale. They might also sell a few to people who actually prefer Kahlers, but don’t want a Dean, but that’s pretty much it. I’d be surprised if the Floyd ones sell at all.


----------



## Marked Man

neptoess said:


> The hybrid is likely available much cheaper/easier to OEMs than the Pro. I doubt, for instance, that the lead time and bulk discount on an order of 1000 2315s would be as attractive as on an order of the hybrids.
> 
> Either way, the hybrid is brass/brass, which matches the 2320 pro series. If you want a 2315, you can just swap the steel rollers onto the hybrid, which would cost all of $36 for a set of 6 from Whammy (https://www.whammyparts.com/make-mo...t-mounted/kahler-standard-roller-steel-detail). The hybrid and the pro are simply too close to justify raising the price of the guitar. The only difference between the hybrid w/ steel roller swap and a 2315 is the 5-hole cam and where it was made. Same process, same materials, same QC processes.
> 
> These guitars are already $1900 with no case or gig bag, $100 more than the Floyd version. When you consider the fact that the LTD SD-2 is made in the same factory, looks very similar, has very similar specs, comes with a hardshell, and only costs $1500, BCR is already way too expensive. They’ll sell to people like me who lust over the old US-made MK1 birds, but don’t want to shell out thousands for the rare beat up old ones that actually come up for sale. They might also sell a few to people who actually prefer Kahlers, but don’t want a Dean, but that’s pretty much it. I’d be surprised if the Floyd ones sell at all.



I don't think the Hybrid quality is quite the same. I've seen a couple of them where the fine adjustment screws wouldn't cleanly screw down the full distance (poor machining), each one having its own limit. I've never seen a 2315 with that issue.

The trem action of Hybrids has always been excellent, but the adjustment screw defect is ridiculous, even at $300.


----------



## neptoess

Marked Man said:


> I don't think the Hybrid quality is quite the same. I've seen a couple of them where the fine adjustment screws wouldn't cleanly screw down the full distance (poor machining), each one having its own limit. I've never seen a 2315 with that issue.
> 
> The trem action of Hybrids has always been excellent, but the adjustment screw defect is ridiculous, even at $300.


Did this come pre-installed on a guitar? Was the issue on the male adjustment screw threads, or the female threads in the cam cage? Either way, QC slip ups happen. Likely less often on the pro series, because the quality inspectors have smaller batches to inspect. The dealer, the OEM, or Kahler should work with you to remedy that. In the absolute worst case scenario, you should be provided with a new cam cage and adjustment screws, as well as the cost to get those swapped by a decent tech. That's not acceptable even on a Kahler X-Trem or a Floyd Rose Special.


----------



## BusinessMan

Bc rich: here are some guitars we're opening for preorder releasing this time
People: where are my guitars bc rich
*Bc rich has left chat. 

The fact BC rich is deleting people's comments/questions is really concerning.


----------



## neptoess

BusinessMan said:


> Bc rich: here are some guitars we're opening for preorder releasing this time
> People: where are my guitars bc rich
> *Bc rich has left chat.
> 
> The fact BC rich is deleting people's comments/questions is really concerning.


I have my pre-order through a different dealer, but I had MusiciansFriend see how soon they could get one. I had them check last week. The ETA they gave me was Dec 2022 - Jan 2023. Most custom shops, including Gibson, have better lead times than that, even in "these unprecedented times".

EDIT: BCR has also modified the description on the Ironbird case (yes, the $300 "custom shop" one), to say it fits MK2 birds only (https://bcrich.com/product/b-c-rich-custom-shop-ironbird-electric-case/). I have one of these in my preorder (they hadn't changed the description on the case yet). It will be fun to see if it fits, and, if it doesn't, what my case options are. I have 3 guitars that cost me >$2000 new with a hard case. If this doesn't bat in the same league as those, it's going back.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Probably deleted the comment because it broke the rules.

"2. Topics or comments with a negative connotation are NOT allowed. They will be deleted and depending on the severity you may be banned at the admins discretion."

...Which is some EBMM Forum-level moderation. 


But yeah, not surprised. BC Rich pretty much is a dead brand at this rate.


----------



## neptoess

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Probably deleted the comment because it broke the rules.
> 
> "2. Topics or comments with a negative connotation are NOT allowed. They will be deleted and depending on the severity you may be banned at the admins discretion."
> 
> ...Which is some EBMM Forum-level moderation.
> 
> 
> But yeah, not surprised. BC Rich pretty much is a dead brand at this rate.


What sucks is that the guitars I've played since the re-launch (those hideous abalone-encrusted extreme series warlocks and mockingbirds) have been, no joke, excellent guitars. They made the Deans and pro series Jacksons next to them feel like downright cheap guitars. They were easily as nice off the rack as my USA Gibson, Fender, and Martin guitars. They've got the right idea, they just need to stop posting hype on social media and actually run their business.


----------



## Damon67

neptoess said:


> What sucks is that the guitars I've played since the re-launch (those hideous abalone-encrusted extreme series warlocks and mockingbirds) have been, no joke, excellent guitars. They made the Deans and pro series Jacksons next to them feel like downright cheap guitars. They were easily as nice off the rack as my USA Gibson, Fender, and Martin guitars. They've got the right idea, they just need to stop posting hype on social media and actually run their business.


It's because they're serious players that are running the company. The guitar has to be good enough for their own expectations of how it should play. I know I'm not supposed to get high on my own supply, but I've bought 7 BC Rich's since the relaunch for myself.

As for the rest... I'm just happy the pandemic hasn't shut 'em down. It's hard to start a business, even harder to re-launch and change earlier perceptions, but to throw this pandemic nd supply chain issues on top of that? Jeezus!. This isn't ESP, Fender, etc.... they're small potatoes. Bill pours his heart and soul into this company, literally day and night as he has to deal with all the factories overseas.

With the war in Ukraine, things will get worse. Nickel from Russia, wire from Ukraine.... AND remember all the boat issues? NOW with sanctions, Asian imports can't travel by train to Europe.... so more shipping bullshit to follow as well. It's a shit show, and will be for some time. It's not just BC Rich, but being the red-headed step child hasn't helped.


----------



## Damon67

This guitar arrived here late last year from the builder. There wasn't a case available, so a make-shift case was used. The guitar was hitting a piece of metal inside and chipped at the end of the top wing, so we sent it back for a full strip and refinish.

Now it's back, totally repainted, and with a new Custom Shop form fitted ROAD case. Ready to tour!


----------



## neptoess

Damon67 said:


> This guitar arrived here late last year from the builder. There wasn't a case available, so a make-shift case was used. The guitar was hitting a piece of metal inside and chipped at the end of the top wing, so we sent it back for a full strip and refinish.
> 
> Now it's back, totally repainted, and with a new Custom Shop form fitted ROAD case. Ready to tour!


Well, my pre-order is through you, so I'm very excited to hear you've solved case conundrums in house before, instead of letting the customer figure it out the hard way. I'm guessing that flight case cost a little more than the $300 hard shell. Looks truly custom.


----------



## Damon67

neptoess said:


> Well, my pre-order is through you, so I'm very excited to hear you've solved case conundrums in house before, instead of letting the customer figure it out the hard way. I'm guessing that flight case cost a little more than the $300 hard shell. Looks truly custom.


I thank you sir! I'm excited about the Chucks getting here, and the new iron birds, and the new Evertune 7 and 8 strings, and the new stuff I can't talk about yet.


----------



## STRHelvete

Holy shit that case looks beautiful. I've never been that amazed by a damn guitar case before.


----------



## neptoess

STRHelvete said:


> Holy shit that case looks beautiful. I've never been that amazed by a damn guitar case before.


Looks like one of these (https://www.roadcases.com/guitar-and-bass-cases/), but with some fabric over the foam. It does look the business for sure. Probably weighs 20 lb or so, but you could take it on a flight as checked luggage and be pretty sure that the baggage handlers won't be able to damage it.


----------



## bloodjunkie

Is that a hardtail Kahler? Never seen one before..


----------



## neptoess

bloodjunkie said:


> Is that a hardtail Kahler? Never seen one before..


Nah it’s a tremolo. You can lock it into fixed bridge mode very easily (literally tighten one bolt) though if you prefer that.


----------



## spudmunkey

neptoess said:


> Nah it’s a tremolo. You can lock it into fixed bridge mode very easily (literally tighten one bolt) though if you prefer that.


Maybe I'm not understanding...where does the arm go? Isn't this the flat-mount fixed?


----------



## Viginez

looks like a fixed one (also no locking nut)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

What fucking psychopath gets the big, ugly, expensive bridge with finetuners and doesn't do the locking nut?


----------



## STRHelvete

MaxOfMetal said:


> What fucking psychopath gets the big, ugly, expensive bridge with finetuners and doesn't do the locking nut?


I didn't notice that until this post and for some reason it's now giving me anxiety...


----------



## JimF

Same. The customer seems to want precise adjustment of his "not quite in tune" strings.


----------



## neptoess

spudmunkey said:


> Maybe I'm not understanding...where does the arm go? Isn't this the flat-mount fixed?
> 
> View attachment 105630


Ah you’re talking about that custom stealth (https://www.redblanketguitars.com/products/Stealth-USA-with-Kahler-Black-655.html?cPath=10_451_460). Yeah that’s a fixed Kahler. @Damon67 has it listed as a 2320, but it looks like a 7330 (https://kahlerusa.com/product/7330-...=brass-rollers&attribute_pa_color=black-krome). Very interesting bridge choice for sure.

As for who wants one, well, Dave Mustaine used to be a fan. The Jackson King V Pro shipped with a fixed bridge Kahler https://www.guitarscollector.com/1993---jackson-king-v-pro-mustaine-signature.html

I’d personally rather have a Quad bridge on a BC Rich.


----------



## JimF

Never even knew that was a thing!


----------



## STRHelvete

neptoess said:


> Ah you’re talking about that custom stealth (https://www.redblanketguitars.com/products/Stealth-USA-with-Kahler-Black-655.html?cPath=10_451_460). Yeah that’s a fixed Kahler. @Damon67 has it listed as a 2320, but it looks like a 7330 (https://kahlerusa.com/product/7330-...=brass-rollers&attribute_pa_color=black-krome). Very interesting bridge choice for sure.
> 
> As for who wants one, well, Dave Mustaine used to be a fan. The Jackson King V Pro shipped with a fixed bridge Kahler https://www.guitarscollector.com/1993---jackson-king-v-pro-mustaine-signature.html
> 
> I’d personally rather have a Quad bridge on a BC Rich.


...but why?

It reminds me of Mick Thompson's trem based guitars that are all locked down because he just likes the feel of a trem but doesn't want it moving. Is that what it's for?


----------



## JimF

Pretty much, but those have a locking nut as well, don't they?


----------



## neptoess

STRHelvete said:


> ...but why?
> 
> It reminds me of Mick Thompson's trem based guitars that are all locked down because he just likes the feel of a trem but doesn't want it moving. Is that what it's for?


It’s a super niche user who’d want to do things like this, but the Kahler gives you individual action and string spacing adjustment. You can also do some tricks with the fine tuners like go from E to D. Though, without a locking nut, that does seem like a weird way to go about that. My only real guess is that this is basically a fixed bridge Stealth with a little more harmonic content (no locking nut, so you get the overtones between the nut and the tuners, and you’ll also get the overtones from the area between the bridge string hook and roller, where most Stealth fixed bridges had Quad wraparounds, so no or very little harmonic content behind the saddle). Even that seems a little out there though, because that X2N in the bridge is a sledgehammer of a pickup. Not sure you’ll be able to appreciate that extra harmonic bliss. The neck pickup is lower output though, so maybe you can hear the difference there.

Yeah, why is definitely a good question.


----------



## Mathemagician

The only reason you would use the fine tuners to drop from E to D is if you had a locking nut. No locking nut means you could just use the headstock tuner to drop down.


----------



## STRHelvete

You can already lock a Kahler down though and make it a hardtail. Why the hell would you specifically buy half a Kahler?


----------



## neptoess

STRHelvete said:


> You can already lock a Kahler down though and make it a hardtail. Why the hell would you specifically buy half a Kahler?


It's a custom shop build. So, unless we get an answer from the person who spec'd it out, we can only speculate. I can't find any interviews where Dave Mustaine talks about _why_ he had Kahler fixed bridges on his guitars for years, but some forum posts mention a couple things about the guitars themselves: articulate attack and focused midrange (https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...ne-signature-model-owners.316948/post-4669926) and comfortable palm muting (https://www.metalguitarist.org/thre...e-mustaine-signature-model-m-i-j-1993.100618/).

Some research shows that his original Jackson guitars had Kahler tremolos on them. So maybe he got used to the palm muting feel (Dave's hand is almost always resting on the bridge), and wanted that on his future guitars, but didn't care about the tremolo part. The original Kahlers didn't have the locking screw, so the 3300 model, dedicated fixed bridge was his only choice there.

As someone who cut their teeth playing thrash on Gibson style guitars, my palm is kind of permanently comfortable smashed into tune-o-matic saddles. That said, when I got my EJ strat, the saddle height adjustment screws really bothered me when palm muting. I had to replace them with shorter ones, because I was just shredding my palm on them (I know, you don't normally rest your palm on a strat bridge, but old habits die hard). Maybe that happened with Dave when he went from the perfectly round roller saddles to the sharper tune-o-matic saddles?

Again, all pure speculation. For all we know, the bridge choice was just done for shits and giggles.


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

The Jackson Marty Friedman KE1 is also equipped with a fixed Kahler. I got both the KV1 and the KE1 and really like the idea of a fixed trem with fine tuners. Since the bridge is fixed you don't need a locking nut.


----------



## neptoess

Celtic Frosted Flakes said:


> The Jackson Marty Friedman KE1 is also equipped with a fixed Kahler. I got both the KV1 and the KE1 and really like the idea of a fixed trem with fine tuners. Since the bridge is fixed you don't need a locking nut.


I don't think anyone is arguing that a locking nut is needed. The question is, because there's no locking nut, what do you gain from the fine tuners?


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

They are more accurat than the headstock tuners. Guess that is why they are called fine tuners.


----------



## spudmunkey

I suppose one practical advantage is that, while you can't use then to tune to pick attack, you can use them to tune while you continue to play with hammer-ons and pull-offs while performing.


----------



## neptoess

Celtic Frosted Flakes said:


> They are more accurat than the headstock tuners. Guess that is why they are called fine tuners.


You can get stupidly accurate headstock tuners now. They are available in a variety of gear ratios.



spudmunkey said:


> I suppose one practical advantage is that, while you can't use then to tune to pick attack, you can use them to tune while you continue to play with hammer-ons and pull-offs while performing.


Perhaps you've never seen any videos of Hendrix live. You can certainly use your right hand to tweak the headstock tuners while your left hand is busy.


----------



## spudmunkey

neptoess said:


> Perhaps you've never seen any videos of Hendrix live. You can certainly use your right hand to tweak the headstock tuners while your left hand is busy.


No, I just assumed there was only one Hendrix.


----------



## Damon67

To answer everyone's question as to 'why'

I didn't want to do another Floyded Custom.Shop, or a tremolo at all really.
I'm not a fan of the Quad's fixed spacing, so it was eliminated right away
Other bridge options didn't have any connection to the brand and seemed wrong

The Khaler checked all the boxes. I can dial in string spacing and it had that BC Rich mojo. The guitar itself has been built with a Khaler angle... different than what it would be for a Floyd. I didn't have the lock installed so we could leave that up to the customer... it's an easy install and cheap. Also, because the guitar was built for it, you can drop a Khaler trem on it should you choose to in the future, with no mods needed.

And... I've been a Mustaine head since I saw him play with Metallica at The Stone in SF. He did inspire that part of the build, along with Chuck on most the rest.

Maybe too self-indulgent? I've been getting some nibbles and a few bites though. Like the others we've built, I don't expect it to last long. We have 3 Custom Shops on the way, including another Stealth with a Khaler trem with more of a vintage Derringer vibe.


----------



## Damon67

Damon67 said:


> including another Stealth with a Khaler trem with more of a vintage Derringer vibe.



Based off of...


----------



## neptoess

Damon67 said:


> To answer everyone's question as to 'why'
> 
> I didn't want to do another Floyded Custom.Shop, or a tremolo at all really.
> I'm not a fan of the Quad's fixed spacing, so it was eliminated right away
> Other bridge options didn't have any connection to the brand and seemed wrong
> 
> The Khaler checked all the boxes. I can dial in string spacing and it had that BC Rich mojo. The guitar itself has been built with a Khaler angle... different than what it would be for a Floyd. I didn't have the lock installed so we could leave that up to the customer... it's an easy install and cheap. Also, because the guitar was built for it, you can drop a Khaler trem on it should you choose to in the future, with no mods needed.
> 
> And... I've been a Mustaine head since I saw him play with Metallica at The Stone in SF. He did inspire that part of the build, along with Chuck on most the rest.
> 
> Maybe too self-indulgent? I've been getting some nibbles and a few bites though. Like the others we've built, I don't expect it to last long. We have 3 Custom Shops on the way, including another Stealth with a Khaler trem with more of a vintage Derringer vibe.


I have a feeling that vintage Derringer vibe one is gonna be cool as hell (I see you just posted a preview, I love it)

I don't think I've ever played a real Quad, so I can't really comment on the string spacing, but I know I can feel a difference when I go from my Gibson's tune-o-matic to my strat with its vintage-correct wide string spacing.

Very glad to hear the guitar is built with the greater neck angle. That will make playing palm muted stuff much more comfortable.

Also, if it's routed out under the bridge so you can swap a 2300 series on, that's awesome. Installing the proper lock nut would be a bit of work, but the old school string lock would definitely be easy to add.


----------



## Andromalia

neptoess said:


> I don't think anyone is arguing that a locking nut is needed. The question is, because there's no locking nut, what do you gain from the fine tuners?


Depends on the use, really. I had a japanese strat with a floyd rose type II that I used without using the locking nut for, actually, more than a decade. I just used the FR with subtlety and it was no issue.


----------



## Damon67

I've had 3 guitars with fine tuners and no locking nut or tremolo.2 different Gibsons (V and Explorer) and a Peavey Odyssey which I just sold stupidly, but it's with a close friend.

The Peavey is my favorite, though it's probably another company that makes it.. It had adjustable spacing and fine tuners on the tailpiece like in the below pic. Fine tuners are always more accurate in my experience, We built this as a hard-tail bottom line, but YES IT IS PRE-ROUTED for the tremolos


----------



## GenghisCoyne

Andromalia said:


> Depends on the use, really. I had a japanese strat with a floyd rose type II that I used without using the locking nut for, actually, more than a decade. I just used the FR with subtlety and it was no issue.


why didnt you just erase the first thought instead of typing actually?


----------



## Andromalia

GenghisCoyne said:


> why didnt you just erase the first thought instead of typing actually?


Because sentences start with an uppercase letter.


----------



## TornAnus

Any of those first quarter 2022 guitars released yet?


----------



## neptoess

Still waiting on my Kahler Ironbird


TornAnus said:


> Any of those first quarter 2022 guitars released yet?


----------



## electriceye

Damon67 said:


> This guitar arrived here late last year from the builder. There wasn't a case available, so a make-shift case was used. The guitar was hitting a piece of metal inside and chipped at the end of the top wing, so we sent it back for a full strip and refinish.
> 
> Now it's back, totally repainted, and with a new Custom Shop form fitted ROAD case. Ready to tour!



This may very well be the nicest (new) BCR I've seen in YEARS. As a lifelong BCR fan, I just wish the Made in USA was on the front of the headstock, like they used to be. But, this is what we need to see from the company, not abalone slabs.


----------



## neptoess

electriceye said:


> This may very well be the nicest (new) BCR I've seen in YEARS. As a lifelong BCR fan, I just wish the Made in USA was on the front of the headstock, like they used to be. But, this is what we need to see from the company, not abalone slabs.


The best for me is still the pearl R. But yeah, the abalone slabs made me think the new ownership was going to make the mistakes of the previous ownership, i.e. alienate their core fanbase. The Legacy series stuff seems to be in the right direction: kind of like a modern day U series (just not assembled in the US). I don’t think there was ever a period where the handcrafted custom shop stuff was bad, but I’m at least happy to see the current ownership staying clear of the budget range guitars. The cheapest new stuff is still upper mid range.

Off topic, but Jackson seems to be repeating the mistakes that BC Rich made. Making a Fender / Gibson analogy, most of what Jackson makes today would be branded Squier or Epiphone, not Fender or Gibson. Even the “Pro” series has been very disappointing to me off the rack. The MJ series looks encouraging, and the USA stuff is still great, but if everyone associates “Jackson” with their Pro and X series, like people did “BC Rich” with their various midrange lines, their reputation will suffer. It’s certainly not a concern yet though. They aren’t even taking Masterbuilt orders from mere mortals, their leadtimes for custom selects are over 2 years, and they still seem to move a ton of volume across the entire product line. I just can’t imagine Grover Jackson would be proud to see his name on most of the guitars that have it these days.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

neptoess said:


> The best for me is still the pearl R. But yeah, the abalone slabs made me think the new ownership was going to make the mistakes of the previous ownership, i.e. alienate their core fanbase. The Legacy series stuff seems to be in the right direction: kind of like a modern day U series (just not assembled in the US). I don’t think there was ever a period where the handcrafted custom shop stuff was bad, but I’m at least happy to see the current ownership staying clear of the budget range guitars. The cheapest new stuff is still upper mid range.
> 
> Off topic, but Jackson seems to be repeating the mistakes that BC Rich made. Making a Fender / Gibson analogy, most of what Jackson makes today would be branded Squier or Epiphone, not Fender or Gibson. Even the “Pro” series has been very disappointing to me off the rack. The MJ series looks encouraging, and the USA stuff is still great, but if everyone associates “Jackson” with their Pro and X series, like people did “BC Rich” with their various midrange lines, their reputation will suffer. It’s certainly not a concern yet though. They aren’t even taking Masterbuilt orders from mere mortals, their leadtimes for custom selects are over 2 years, and they still seem to move a ton of volume across the entire product line. I just can’t imagine Grover Jackson would be proud to see his name on most of the guitars that have it these days.



Grover put his name on mediocre imports when he was still doing GJ2, so I don't think he's that sentimental.


----------



## electriceye

neptoess said:


> The best for me is still the pearl R. But yeah, the abalone slabs made me think the new ownership was going to make the mistakes of the previous ownership, i.e. alienate their core fanbase. The Legacy series stuff seems to be in the right direction: kind of like a modern day U series (just not assembled in the US). I don’t think there was ever a period where the handcrafted custom shop stuff was bad, but I’m at least happy to see the current ownership staying clear of the budget range guitars. The cheapest new stuff is still upper mid range.
> 
> Off topic, but Jackson seems to be repeating the mistakes that BC Rich made. Making a Fender / Gibson analogy, most of what Jackson makes today would be branded Squier or Epiphone, not Fender or Gibson. Even the “Pro” series has been very disappointing to me off the rack. The MJ series looks encouraging, and the USA stuff is still great, but if everyone associates “Jackson” with their Pro and X series, like people did “BC Rich” with their various midrange lines, their reputation will suffer. It’s certainly not a concern yet though. They aren’t even taking Masterbuilt orders from mere mortals, their leadtimes for custom selects are over 2 years, and they still seem to move a ton of volume across the entire product line. I just can’t imagine Grover Jackson would be proud to see his name on most of the guitars that have it these days.



That's interesting. I have always stayed away from non-US-made Jacksons anyway, although I do have a Mustaine KV Pro, which is fucking awesome (but also 30 years old). I've almost never been a real fan of the overseas-made stuff. Frankly, I see almost zero difference in any brands' overseas models. Hell, they're all made in the same factories by the same people. There's no soul to those guitars. They're assembly-line widgets, AFAIC. 

I'm not privy to financial info, but I DO see Charvel/Jackson's prices going through the roof right now. I get The Music Zoo's newsletters every day, and have had several moments where I almost choked on my food when I clicked on a guitar to see the price. Even BASIC USA Charvel's are approaching $4k!!! So are the USED ones, too!!! The only thing I've been excited to see is the comeback of crackle paint jobs, but that's irrelevant in this discussion.

One of the reasons I started building is to make guitars I like and are of comparable to high-end manufacturers. I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it.


----------



## neptoess

The issue with Charvel and Jackson is that they don't have a US-based production line, like Fender or Gibson. Those "basic" $4k models (which is also the price of a USA Select Jackson in solid black poly...) are built by the custom shop team. They're identical to Custom Selects, just without any choice on the specs. Sort of like the Gibson Historic Reissues (which can also be ordered slightly custom spec via their Made 2 Measure program). I think they only build like 50 or so of each model every year.

They do have a tier above that called "Masterbuilt", where the guitar is built by a single person, one of 3-4 "master builders", which is even more expensive, but it's the continuation of the original Jackson idea (Mike Shannon, one of the master builders, was there from the beginning). Every order is full custom. They'll build anything you can dream up, however you want it (hand carved on pin routers, hand scraped binding, you name it), but don't be surprised at the five-figure quote. The master builders have been too busy for the past few years, so you can't even get a quote on a Masterbuilt order as a regular consumer anymore. Artists only.

EDIT: Also, that KV Pro you have is a super desirable guitar, made during the 90s, where the import Jacksons were made in the Chushin Gakki plant in Japan. A lot of Jackson enthusiasts believe those guitars (KV Pro, Rhoads Professional, Soloist Professional, etc) were as good or better than what Jackson was making in their US shop at the time. Jackson has recently done the Wildcard and Concept series in Korea, and the MJ series in Japan. These are supposed to be quite a cut above anything they've done on an import line since the 90s, but I haven't gotten my hands on one yet to prove that to myself. Literally every Jackson I've ever played has been nothing to write home about, but I've never played a USA or one of the 90s Professionals.



electriceye said:


> That's interesting. I have always stayed away from non-US-made Jacksons anyway, although I do have a Mustaine KV Pro, which is fucking awesome (but also 30 years old). I've almost never been a real fan of the overseas-made stuff. Frankly, I see almost zero difference in any brands' overseas models. Hell, they're all made in the same factories by the same people. There's no soul to those guitars. They're assembly-line widgets, AFAIC.
> 
> I'm not privy to financial info, but I DO see Charvel/Jackson's prices going through the roof right now. I get The Music Zoo's newsletters every day, and have had several moments where I almost choked on my food when I clicked on a guitar to see the price. Even BASIC USA Charvel's are approaching $4k!!! So are the USED ones, too!!! The only thing I've been excited to see is the comeback of crackle paint jobs, but that's irrelevant in this discussion.
> 
> One of the reasons I started building is to make guitars I like and are of comparable to high-end manufacturers. I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

neptoess said:


> The issue with Charvel and Jackson is that they don't have a US-based production line, like Fender or Gibson. Those "basic" $4k models (which is also the price of a USA Select Jackson in solid black poly...) are built by the custom shop team. They're identical to Custom Selects, just without any choice on the specs. Sort of like the Gibson Historic Reissues (which can also be ordered slightly custom spec via their Made 2 Measure program). I think they only build like 50 or so of each model every year.
> 
> They do have a tier above that called "Masterbuilt", where the guitar is built by a single person, one of 3-4 "master builders", which is even more expensive, but it's the continuation of the original Jackson idea (Mike Shannon, one of the master builders, was there from the beginning). Every order is full custom. They'll build anything you can dream up, however you want it (hand carved on pin routers, hand scraped binding, you name it), but don't be surprised at the five-figure quote. The master builders have been too busy for the past few years, so you can't even get a quote on a Masterbuilt order as a regular consumer anymore. Artists only.
> 
> EDIT: Also, that KV Pro you have is a super desirable guitar, made during the 90s, where the import Jacksons were made in the Chushin Gakki plant in Japan. A lot of Jackson enthusiasts believe those guitars (KV Pro, Rhoads Professional, Soloist Professional, etc) were as good or better than what Jackson was making in their US shop at the time. Jackson has recently done the Wildcard and Concept series in Korea, and the MJ series in Japan. These are supposed to be quite a cut above anything they've done on an import line since the 90s, but I haven't gotten my hands on one yet to prove that to myself. Literally every Jackson I've ever played has been nothing to write home about, but I've never played a USA or one of the 90s Professionals.



the 90s professionals are worth the hype assuming you can get one, I owned one for a little bit until the previous owner begged for it back and told me to name a price and while it didn't have the personality or weird specs that make me want my USA Fusion back the fretwork was better and the sustain was as well, plus it had an edge on it which was great


----------



## neptoess

TheBolivianSniper said:


> the 90s professionals are worth the hype assuming you can get one, I owned one for a little bit until the previous owner begged for it back and told me to name a price and while it didn't have the personality or weird specs that make me want my USA Fusion back the fretwork was better and the sustain was as well, plus it had an edge on it which was great


They're around, but the cat's out of the bag, so people want as much as USA models for them (example: https://reverb.com/item/41233025-jackson-soloist-professional-pro-93-black-sparkle-rare-shredder).

Regarding personality and weird specs, I'd definitely love to experience an old Fusion or Charvel 750XL. I'm a big fan of the Gibson scale length. On that note, the original USA Warrior (the one that got discontinued after 2 years) was also 24.75", and it's definitely got a bit of personality (angled fretboard and angled double blade single-sized humbuckers https://reverb.com/item/409811-jackson-warrior-usa-1991).

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Current BC Riches. Anyone pick one up recently?


----------



## STRHelvete

Damon67 said:


> This guitar arrived here late last year from the builder. There wasn't a case available, so a make-shift case was used. The guitar was hitting a piece of metal inside and chipped at the end of the top wing, so we sent it back for a full strip and refinish.
> 
> Now it's back, totally repainted, and with a new Custom Shop form fitted ROAD case. Ready to tour!


I'm still upset at how beautiful that case is. I've never had GAS for a guitar case before but now I do and I want one for my guitars.


----------



## cardinal

neptoess said:


> The issue with Charvel and Jackson is that they don't have a US-based production line, like Fender or Gibson. Those "basic" $4k models (which is also the price of a USA Select Jackson in solid black poly...) are built by the custom shop team. They're identical to Custom Selects, just without any choice on the specs. Sort of like the Gibson Historic Reissues (which can also be ordered slightly custom spec via their Made 2 Measure program). I think they only build like 50 or so of each model every year.
> 
> They do have a tier above that called "Masterbuilt", where the guitar is built by a single person, one of 3-4 "master builders", which is even more expensive, but it's the continuation of the original Jackson idea (Mike Shannon, one of the master builders, was there from the beginning). Every order is full custom. They'll build anything you can dream up, however you want it (hand carved on pin routers, hand scraped binding, you name it), but don't be surprised at the five-figure quote. The master builders have been too busy for the past few years, so you can't even get a quote on a Masterbuilt order as a regular consumer anymore. Artists only.
> 
> EDIT: Also, that KV Pro you have is a super desirable guitar, made during the 90s, where the import Jacksons were made in the Chushin Gakki plant in Japan. A lot of Jackson enthusiasts believe those guitars (KV Pro, Rhoads Professional, Soloist Professional, etc) were as good or better than what Jackson was making in their US shop at the time. Jackson has recently done the Wildcard and Concept series in Korea, and the MJ series in Japan. These are supposed to be quite a cut above anything they've done on an import line since the 90s, but I haven't gotten my hands on one yet to prove that to myself. Literally every Jackson I've ever played has been nothing to write home about, but I've never played a USA or one of the 90s Professionals.


Maybe things changed, but as of a few years ago, Jackson/Charvel wouldnt build you anything except from their limited Select options unless you were an endorsed artist. They told me repeatedly that their custom shop just didn't have capacity to take my money.


----------



## Metal-Box

Does anyone have any experience with the customer service? I have found it impossible to get a hold of anyone there for some help with my guitar.


----------



## neptoess

Metal-Box said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the customer service? I have found it impossible to get a hold of anyone there for some help with my guitar.


BC Rich customer service? I’ve honestly never tried reaching out to any guitar company’s customer service, but the few dealers I’ve dealt with in the past few years have been great about any issues I had. Is this a new guitar?


----------



## electriceye

neptoess said:


> The issue with Charvel and Jackson is that they don't have a US-based production line, like Fender or Gibson. Those "basic" $4k models (which is also the price of a USA Select Jackson in solid black poly...) are built by the custom shop team. They're identical to Custom Selects, just without any choice on the specs. Sort of like the Gibson Historic Reissues (which can also be ordered slightly custom spec via their Made 2 Measure program). I think they only build like 50 or so of each model every year.
> 
> They do have a tier above that called "Masterbuilt", where the guitar is built by a single person, one of 3-4 "master builders", which is even more expensive, but it's the continuation of the original Jackson idea (Mike Shannon, one of the master builders, was there from the beginning). Every order is full custom. They'll build anything you can dream up, however you want it (hand carved on pin routers, hand scraped binding, you name it), but don't be surprised at the five-figure quote. The master builders have been too busy for the past few years, so you can't even get a quote on a Masterbuilt order as a regular consumer anymore. Artists only.
> 
> EDIT: Also, that KV Pro you have is a super desirable guitar, made during the 90s, where the import Jacksons were made in the Chushin Gakki plant in Japan. A lot of Jackson enthusiasts believe those guitars (KV Pro, Rhoads Professional, Soloist Professional, etc) were as good or better than what Jackson was making in their US shop at the time. Jackson has recently done the Wildcard and Concept series in Korea, and the MJ series in Japan. These are supposed to be quite a cut above anything they've done on an import line since the 90s, but I haven't gotten my hands on one yet to prove that to myself. Literally every Jackson I've ever played has been nothing to write home about, but I've never played a USA or one of the 90s Professionals.


Don't get me started on the sheer ABSURDITY of Fender's "Masterbuilt" bullshit. That's highway robbery, to say the least. Anyone paying those prices are morons.


----------



## neptoess

electriceye said:


> Don't get me started on the sheer ABSURDITY of Fender's "Masterbuilt" bullshit. That's highway robbery, to say the least. Anyone paying those prices are morons.


Well, like I said previously, you can't even kick off Jackson master builds today unless you're an artist. A few dealers might get to do limited runs each year, but they end being priced very high. The impression I got is that they want Masterbuilts to feel very exclusive, so they only keep enough master builders around that they're constantly busy with artist orders (which are sold at a discount, not the prices we see), and will occasionally let dealers kick off some limited runs, albeit at a stratospheric price point.

Not a huge fan of this kind of pricing, but it's probably worth noting that, in 1984, a Rhoads Custom (basically equivalent to what is sold as an RR-1 today), with a Floyd and a case, would have cost $1880 (source https://assets.ctfassets.net/4jcppg...b8523090f4dcb/CharvelJackson-1984-catalog.pdf). That's equivalent to over $5200 today. That's in line with Jackson's USA Select and Custom Select pricing. I imagine that, back in the day, if you wanted a more one-off, totally custom guitar, you would creep into pricing that lines up with what Jackson charges today for Masterbuilt.

BC Rich is similar (if they're asking $7300 for this https://bcrich.com/product/erik-rutan-ironbird-7-signature-model/, what do you think a one-off, total custom build would be?). US handcrafted guitars have always been expensive. We're just kinda spoiled today that the cheaper mass production stuff is so good. In the 80s, there was absolutely nothing mass production, off the rack, that could hold a candle to a handcrafted Jackson, BC Rich, ESP, etc.


----------



## BusinessMan

Metal-Box said:


> Does anyone have any experience with the customer service? I have found it impossible to get a hold of anyone there for some help with my guitar.


People are still having trouble getting their guitars... so not likely


----------



## neptoess

BusinessMan said:


> People are still having trouble getting their guitars... so not likely


I asked for further details here https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/current-bc-rich-thread.327419/post-5403028

…but yeah, I think you should go through your dealer with any issues on a new BC Rich (or any guitar honestly). That’s part of the reason they’re there. If you do that, and you aren’t satisfied for whatever reason, then reach out to the actual company.


----------



## neptoess

cardinal said:


> Maybe things changed, but as of a few years ago, Jackson/Charvel wouldnt build you anything except from their limited Select options unless you were an endorsed artist. They told me repeatedly that their custom shop just didn't have capacity to take my money.


I also did some calling around and came to the same conclusion. Unless you’re an artist, no amount of money can get you in line for, e.g. a Double Rhoads.

Now, a somewhat interesting approach might be to get in touch with a Jackson endorsed artist, and get them to place the order for you. It’d be super risky for them though (they could lose their endorsement if anyone found out), so you’d probably have to heavily butter their palms.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

neptoess said:


> I also did some calling around and came to the same conclusion. Unless you’re an artist, no amount of money can get you in line for, e.g. a Double Rhoads.
> 
> Now, a somewhat interesting approach might be to get in touch with a Jackson endorsed artist, and get them to place the order for you. It’d be super risky for them though (they could lose their endorsement if anyone found out), so you’d probably have to heavily butter their palms.



You can find orphan Masterbuilt orders in queue, but you're going to pay through the teeth as it's practically an auction by the dealer who has it. 

I was able to track one down around the end of 2019, and the price was nuts. Around twice what the original quote was, and there were no guarantees as far as what changes could be made to the original order.


----------



## Metal-Box

neptoess said:


> BC Rich customer service? I’ve honestly never tried reaching out to any guitar company’s customer service, but the few dealers I’ve dealt with in the past few years have been great about any issues I had. Is this a new guitar?


Yeah, I had some little issues I wanted to sort out. Nobody replies to emails or phone calls. I think I’m just going to return it.


----------



## Metal-Box

BusinessMan said:


> People are still having trouble getting their guitars... so not likely


For the amount of money this guitar cost, it is disappointing when the company won’t even take the time to tell me to go screw myself haha.

I am returning it and getting a J. Custom or Soloist.


----------



## neptoess

Metal-Box said:


> For the amount of money this guitar cost, it is disappointing when the company won’t even take the time to tell me to go screw myself haha.
> 
> I am returning it and getting a J. Custom or Soloist.


Now I'm even more curious what you bought, what the issues are, and what steps you've taken to resolve them.


----------



## electriceye

neptoess said:


> Well, like I said previously, you can't even kick off Jackson master builds today unless you're an artist. A few dealers might get to do limited runs each year, but they end being priced very high. The impression I got is that they want Masterbuilts to feel very exclusive, so they only keep enough master builders around that they're constantly busy with artist orders (which are sold at a discount, not the prices we see), and will occasionally let dealers kick off some limited runs, albeit at a stratospheric price point.
> 
> Not a huge fan of this kind of pricing, but it's probably worth noting that, in 1984, a Rhoads Custom (basically equivalent to what is sold as an RR-1 today), with a Floyd and a case, would have cost $1880 (source https://assets.ctfassets.net/4jcppg...b8523090f4dcb/CharvelJackson-1984-catalog.pdf). That's equivalent to over $5200 today. That's in line with Jackson's USA Select and Custom Select pricing. I imagine that, back in the day, if you wanted a more one-off, totally custom guitar, you would creep into pricing that lines up with what Jackson charges today for Masterbuilt.
> 
> BC Rich is similar (if they're asking $7300 for this https://bcrich.com/product/erik-rutan-ironbird-7-signature-model/, what do you think a one-off, total custom build would be?). US handcrafted guitars have always been expensive. We're just kinda spoiled today that the cheaper mass production stuff is so good. In the 80s, there was absolutely nothing mass production, off the rack, that could hold a candle to a handcrafted Jackson, BC Rich, ESP, etc.



I know I'm a bit old, but I paid $675 for my ST-III in late '86. Just hard for me to accept the prices these days. It just feels like they took a HUGE leap the past couple of years. 

That said, if people would be willing to pay $5k for one of MY builds, I'll happily take their money.


----------



## spudmunkey

electriceye said:


> I know I'm a bit old, but I paid $675 for my ST-III in late '86. Just hard for me to accept the prices these days.


Back in 1986, your $675 had the same buying power as $1770.67 did in March 2022


----------



## neptoess

electriceye said:


> I know I'm a bit old, but I paid $675 for my ST-III in late '86. Just hard for me to accept the prices these days. It just feels like they took a HUGE leap the past couple of years.
> 
> That said, if people would be willing to pay $5k for one of MY builds, I'll happily take their money.


Was that a US ST? Looks like they were $1000 according to the 86 price list https://guitar-compare.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/1986_Bc_rich_Pricelist.pdf


----------



## MaxOfMetal

neptoess said:


> Was that a US ST? Looks like they were $1000 according to the 86 price list https://guitar-compare.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/1986_Bc_rich_Pricelist.pdf



Back then pricelists were pretty much rough suggestions. 

Shops would charge what they wanted, high or low. It's not like now where a dealer undercutting another or overcharging the customer would be obvious online.


----------



## neptoess

MaxOfMetal said:


> Back then pricelists were pretty much rough suggestions.
> 
> Shops would charge what they wanted, high or low. It's not like now where a dealer undercutting another or overcharging the customer would be obvious online.


Yeah I guess I’m not super familiar, because I wasn’t alive in the 80s. That said, even to this day, people do manage to get fairly impressive discounts on certain pieces of gear. I just don’t know how to make comparisons using anything other than the MSRP.

It is kinda crazy to me how crazy popular super strat and derivative guitars (like the ST-III) are though. The market is flooded with 25.5” scale guitars with humbuckers and floyds. There must still be a ton of demand too, because they’re not cheap.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

neptoess said:


> Yeah I guess I’m not super familiar, because I wasn’t alive in the 80s. That said, even to this day, people do manage to get fairly impressive discounts on certain pieces of gear. I just don’t know how to make comparisons using anything other than the MSRP.
> 
> It is kinda crazy to me how crazy popular super strat and derivative guitars (like the ST-III) are though. The market is flooded with 25.5” scale guitars with humbuckers and floyds. There must still be a ton of demand too, because they’re not cheap.



A lot of deals are based on how long a particular instrument has been sitting. The longer it's in inventory the cost has sunk and since inventory is taxable it eventually starts costing money to keep it around, not to mention that longer it sits the more it's viewed as no longer no. 

A good rule of thumb is that the MAP is typically about 20% less than MSRP, and wholesale is about 50% of the MAP. Plus or minus ~10%. 

So a guitar listed for $1000, will MAP around $800, which the shop paid $400 for. So the $400 margin is what they have to play with. 

I think the biggest difference between then and now is availability. There were a ton of guitars out there, they were just difficult to get if you didn't live reasonably close to a larger music store.


----------



## Metal-Box

neptoess said:


> Now I'm even more curious what you bought, what the issues are, and what steps you've taken to resolve them.


I bought two Legacy Gunslingers. One was new and the other was used.

The new one had an issue with the height adjustment on the bridge. I ended up figuring that one out. 

The used one didn’t have a CoA so I was asking if I could get another one. I know it’s used, but a lot of companies would hook you up simply out of goodwill. Especially when you just spent $3K on the other new guitar.

I’ve sent emails through their website, sent emails to their support email address, left a voicemail, and sent them a message through their social media.

I live about an hour away from their office and I even offered to bring the guitar over to verify it’s authenticity. 

No reply at all to any of my attempts to contact them. Even if they couldn’t help me, a reply would be courteous and appreciated.

I don’t know. I would appreciate a callback but maybe I am just a whiner.


----------



## neptoess

Metal-Box said:


> I bought two Legacy Gunslingers. One was new and the other was used.
> 
> The new one had an issue with the height adjustment on the bridge. I ended up figuring that one out.
> 
> The used one didn’t have a CoA so I was asking if I could get another one. I know it’s used, but a lot of companies would hook you up simply out of goodwill. Especially when you just spent $3K on the other new guitar.
> 
> I’ve sent emails through their website, sent emails to their support email address, left a voicemail, and sent them a message through their social media.
> 
> I live about an hour away from their office and I even offered to bring the guitar over to verify it’s authenticity.
> 
> No reply at all to any of my attempts to contact them. Even if they couldn’t help me, a reply would be courteous and appreciated.
> 
> I don’t know. I would appreciate a callback but maybe I am just a whiner.


Ah I see where you’re coming from on the COA replacement thing. I would definitely expect them to get back to you on that eventually. You’re not being a whiner. It isn’t a request they get often though, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes a few weeks for them to figure out how to handle it.

The bridge height adjustment thing on the new one, I think that just comes with the territory. Setups shift/settle, so I kinda expect to have to adjust any new guitar I get. My Gibson and Martin were pretty spot on when shipped to me, but I had to do a full setup on my newest $2200 Fender.


----------



## Metal-Box

neptoess said:


> Ah I see where you’re coming from on the COA replacement thing. I would definitely expect them to get back to you on that eventually. You’re not being a whiner. It isn’t a request they get often though, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes a few weeks for them to figure out how to handle it.
> 
> The bridge height adjustment thing on the new one, I think that just comes with the territory. Setups shift/settle, so I kinda expect to have to adjust any new guitar I get. My Gibson and Martin were pretty spot on when shipped to me, but I had to do a full setup on my newest $2200 Fender.


Thanks for the reply. I didn’t consider that perspective. Maybe I’ll hang onto it.


----------



## Damon67

You think a store is making 50% on MAP pricing? Think again. It's typically around 35%



MaxOfMetal said:


> So a guitar listed for $1000, will MAP around $800, which the shop paid $400 for. So the $400 margin is what they have to play with.


----------



## Damon67

If anyone has an issue with their newly bought NEW BC Rich, bought from us or not. Feel free to send an email to [email protected] and I will do my best to help.


----------



## neptoess

Damon67 said:


> You think a store is making 50% on MAP pricing? Think again. It's typically around 35%


I know you can't divulge too much, since you're an active dealer, but I'm trying to do the math here, and can't make it work. Making 50% margin when selling at MAP would mean, using @MaxOfMetal 's numbers ($1000 list, $800 MAP, $400 cost), that you paid $533 ($800 / 1.5), and made $267, i.e. your sale turned every dollar you spent into $1.50. If you meant that the store is _paying_ 50% of MAP for the product, that would line up with Max's numbers, but then your 35% number is harder to do the math on, because that makes me think the $800 MAP only costs the shop $280.

Also, if musical instrument dealers are making 35% margin selling at MAP, that is bonkers. Most retailers would kill to even make 10% margins https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/071615/what-profit-margin-usual-company-retail-sector.asp


----------



## Damon67

POOF! This one is History. I'm really wanting the exact same guitar built for me... but a Warlock. Saving the $$

We have a more vintage vibe Stealth on the way. Original cuts and bevels, reverse curve headstock, blue sparkle burst, Moser circuit... basically a Rick Derringer model revamped. And of course, a Khaler.


----------



## neptoess

For your custom warlock, are you going to do another 7300, or go for gold and get the pro series 3300?


----------



## Damon67

neptoess said:


> I know you can't divulge too much, since you're an active dealer, but I'm trying to do the math here, and can't make it work. Making 50% margin when selling at MAP would mean, using @MaxOfMetal 's numbers ($1000 list, $800 MAP, $400 cost), that you paid $533 ($800 / 1.5), and made $267, i.e. your sale turned every dollar you spent into $1.50. If you meant that the store is _paying_ 50% of MAP for the product, that would line up with Max's numbers, but then your 35% number is harder to do the math on, because that makes me think the $800 MAP only costs the shop $280.
> 
> Also, if musical instrument dealers are making 35% margin selling at MAP, that is bonkers. Most retailers would kill to even make 10% margins https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/071615/what-profit-margin-usual-company-retail-sector.asp


Forget the retail price. It's stupid. Nobody pays more than MAP. Also, I'm talking GROSS margin, your retail numbers are NET margin. Apples and oranges. After paying for insured 'free shipping', and factoring in the minimum 2 hours it'll take to do pictures, edit, post, promote. Credit card processing fees, Square or Reverb fees if applicable, any advertising or bumps on, not to mention the space it takes up to warehouse. and various silly things like insurances, and other costs of doing business. Then there's me... I need a bottle of wine and a burger every now and then, and a bed to sleep in. These are all factors that go into the NET margin equation. When it's all said and done, we're probably in the 5-10% range... and all that goes back into more product.


----------



## Damon67

neptoess said:


> For your custom warlock, are you going to do another 7300, or go for gold and get the pro series 3300?


3300


----------



## TornAnus

I saw a facebook post yesterday that they are now hyping some stranger things crackle warlock that does look great but will probably never see the light of day.


----------



## neptoess

TornAnus said:


> I saw a facebook post yesterday that they are now hyping some stranger things crackle warlock that does look great but will probably never see the light of day.


They’re up on the site https://bcrich.com/product/stranger...ica-and-inspired-nj-warlock-electric-guitars/

$900 is a good price. And it even comes with a gig bag. If anyone takes the plunge, keep us looped in on when it ships and what not.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

neptoess said:


> They’re up on the site https://bcrich.com/product/stranger...ica-and-inspired-nj-warlock-electric-guitars/
> 
> $900 is a good price. And it even comes with a gig bag. If anyone takes the plunge, keep us looped in on when it ships and what not.



Am I having a stroke? What bridge will these actually come with?


----------



## neptoess

MaxOfMetal said:


> Am I having a stroke? What bridge will these actually come with?


Yeah they listed that weird. Mixing pictures and specs between the custom and production models. Looks like custom shop is Kahler 2300, production model is some flavor of Floyd

EDIT: GC site is a little clearer https://www.guitarcenter.com/BC-Ric...arlock-Electric-Guitar-Black-1500000371206.gc









B.C. Rich Stranger Things


Shop for the B.C. Rich Stranger Things "Eddie's" Limited-Edition Replica and Inspired NJ Warlock Electric Guitar and receive free shipping on your order and the guaranteed lowest price.




www.guitarcenter.com


----------



## TornAnus

I like everything except the stupid stranger things shit plastered on the back of it


----------



## neptoess

TornAnus said:


> I like everything except the stupid stranger things shit plastered on the back of it


It looks like it’s only on the cavity cover and neck plate (easily swapped for a blank version) thankfully.


----------



## CapinCripes

Too bad it probably won't be as much of a sleeper as the original njs. My 85 st plays smoother than the rr1, rg 550 and carvin I owned. Cost me a whole 125 back in 2008.


----------



## neptoess

CapinCripes said:


> Too bad it probably won't be as much of a sleeper as the original njs. My 85 st plays smoother than the rr1, rg 550 and carvin I owned.


Maybe you just liked the particular design features (neck carve, fret size, etc) of the NJ ST better than those other guitars? Or maybe it just had a great fret job and setup? NJ was below the U series and well below the USA handcrafted stuff in BC Rich's lineup. They were certainly sleeper guitars, but I don't think the average NJ was better than the average U series, and I think nearly no NJ is as nice as a USA handcrafted from the same era. If your RG550 was one of the originals, it would be in the same category of "Japanese-built sleeper guitar".

Jackson RR1's are in the same league as the USA handcrafted stuff. Those guitars should be noticeably a cut above any BC Rich NJ, from any era. You may have gotten one with boogered frets or something, but $100-$200 worth of a skilled luthier's time will get any guitar glass-smooth frets and a proper setup. Or maybe you just prefer thinner necks, oil vs glossy finish neck, etc.


----------



## Church2224

How is the quality on the USA Gunslingers overall? I might look into the green one...


----------



## CapinCripes

neptoess said:


> Maybe you just liked the particular design features (neck carve, fret size, etc) of the NJ ST better than those other guitars? Or maybe it just had a great fret job and setup? NJ was below the U series and well below the USA handcrafted stuff in BC Rich's lineup. They were certainly sleeper guitars, but I don't think the average NJ was better than the average U series, and I think nearly no NJ is as nice as a USA handcrafted from the same era. If your RG550 was one of the originals, it would be in the same category of "Japanese-built sleeper guitar".
> 
> Jackson RR1's are in the same league as the USA handcrafted stuff. Those guitars should be noticeably a cut above any BC Rich NJ, from any era. You may have gotten one with boogered frets or something, but $100-$200 worth of a skilled luthier's time will get any guitar glass-smooth frets and a proper setup. Or maybe you just prefer thinner necks, oil vs glossy finish neck, etc.


That's the thing though I'm no stranger to fairly nice guitars,. I've had a jem7v, a uv 77, an rr1, a mij charvel, a Gibson, a solid koa carvin, a rg550, an esp standard series and yet the beaten to hell and back old nj bc rich is the guitar I've kept out of all of those. Part of it might be just how thoroughly it subverted expectations but it plays damn well despite it's condition and pedagree. I doubt this replica of the same class and era of guitar will do the same.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

no ironbird, no care


----------



## neptoess

KnightBrolaire said:


> no ironbird, no care


My Mk1 w/ Kahler preorder will hopefully ship next month


----------



## Mitri

I was literally just surprise gifted a Shredzilla. 

Here's an opinion or two followed by some observations that may or amy not be relevant to this threads subject matter, or it's participants.

I'm not sure how or why but, in my hands it feels like a B.C. Rich to me. Tbh, I get why there's so much love for these designs. Therefore, I will vouch to authorize (even thoufh my opinion doesn't matter) the production of old shapes in single and multiscale configurations. I'd love to own and play vintage styled warlock, celtic, virgin or the ever lusted Robert Conti 8 string...as MULTISCALES!!!!! Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahah.........

Just so the people know, the Shredzilla neck is almost luxuriously smooth. I'm not sure if the back of neck finish is matte or semi-gloss but I'm not complaining.

The back of the headstock and the back of the neck are different finishes altogether.

The frets are gold and wide and the fretwork seems to be VERY good. 

The finish looks GREAT! Especially on the back side of the "mahogany", it almost looks metallic.

Also, this guitar is VERY light for being a multiscale 8-stringer. 

Anyways I'm about to plug in, tune up, and freak out. I'll try to report back with results, pics, or some other kind of documentation.

P.S. Sorry if my overlooked some egregious typo.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

I watched s04e01 of stranger things tonight and the BC rich made a brief appearance. My wife who tells me that my Caparison CZQ and other pointy guitars belong in the 80’s had a chuckle when I told her there was an even more cliche 80’s shape guitar that would be featured.

I do think that they made a great choice for a warlock for a show that is all about waxing nostalgia for the 80’s.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

I've been spamming the hell out of the show and there is zero warlock coverage outside of the first episode so far but I can def see the setup 

considering getting one tbh they look sick and if they'll be in stock soon and not in dev hell like the ironbirds


----------



## neptoess

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I've been spamming the hell out of the show and there is zero warlock coverage outside of the first episode so far but I can def see the setup
> 
> considering getting one tbh they look sick and if they'll be in stock soon and not in dev hell like the ironbirds


Keep us looped in if you get one. Particularly curious on further details for the $900 model.


----------



## spudmunkey

Bitchin' Sause's "Heat" flavor has accompanying artwork on their website, and I have to say...they did a commendable job with the overall shape and proportion, which is often lost on cartoon guitars. They even got the asymetrical lines of the cutaway behind the bridge pretty right.


----------



## STRHelvete

....they need some milk


----------



## neptoess

It’s funny that they described the custom shop version, but used the picture of the import. Someone hit the sauce a little early today


STRHelvete said:


> View attachment 108295
> 
> 
> ....they need some milk


----------



## CapinCripes

Somehow it completely glossed over me that the kahler one was a custom shop version, thought they were both imports at 899. Kinda weird to make a custom shop version of an import even if the import ones punched above their weight class.


----------



## neptoess

CapinCripes said:


> Somehow it completely glossed over me that the kahler one was a custom shop version, thought they were both imports at 899. Kinda weird to make a custom shop version of an import even if the import ones punched above their weight class.


I’m wondering about the neck plates numbered 1-200. There’s no way they made 200 of the custom shop ones. And only making 200 of the import ones would almost guarantee they sell out instantly.


----------



## CapinCripes

They made a few interesting changes to the base nj series specs for the "replicas".

The addition of the fr nut on the custom shop version over a kahler string lock is a welcome one. The originals came with kahler flyers which are obviously not available anymore and the 2300 is a massive upgrade and not a mod you want to do on the originals without a drill press as the top two mounting holes are different. (ask my right wrist how I know). They switched the fingerboard to ebony from rosewood which is alright. even though the originals had some nice rosewood. Mine is a very nice tight grained example with a lot of reddish streaks throughout that look pretty nice when properly maintained. The neck on mine is a medium c shape not the ultra slim shredzilla style on these. The radius on the originals was 12 instead of 14. Not a big difference but it's worth noting. They contoured the neck joint on this one so that's another difference.
Its an altogether different guitar than if you bought an original example which isn't necessarily bad as it's catered to modern audiences while having a vintage look. 

That being said you won't be getting an accurate representation of the full 80s nj series experience, just the visual idea of it. So less replica and more a metaphor for the surface level only throwbacks that are popular right now.


----------



## neptoess

CapinCripes said:


> They made a few interesting changes to the base nj series specs for the "replicas".
> 
> The addition of the fr nut on the custom shop version over a kahler string lock is a welcome one. The originals came with kahler flyers which are obviously not available anymore and the 2300 is a massive upgrade and not a mod you want to do on the originals without a drill press as the top two mounting holes are different. (ask my right wrist how I know). They switched the fingerboard to ebony from rosewood which is alright. even though the originals had some nice rosewood. Mine is a very nice tight grained example with a lot of reddish streaks throughout that look pretty nice when properly maintained. The neck on mine is a medium c shape not the ultra slim shredzilla style on these. The radius on the originals was 12 instead of 14. Not a big difference but it's worth noting. They contoured the neck joint on this one so that's another difference.
> Its an altogether different guitar than if you bought an original example which isn't necessarily bad as it's catered to modern audiences while having a vintage look.
> 
> That being said you won't be getting an accurate representation of the full 80s nj series experience, just the visual idea of it. So less replica and more a metaphor for the surface level only throwbacks that are popular right now.


My experience with the “ultra slim” shredzilla is that it’s far from an Ibanez Wizard. There’s still a good bit of meat on them


----------



## Mitri

Correction: the frets on my shredzilla are not gold. 

Apparently I'm so used to hiding from solar emissions, I forgot that ambient daylight is yellow. Great.


----------



## neptoess

The site now says shipping late June 2022 for both the custom shop and import versions.


----------



## TornAnus

neptoess said:


> And only making 200 of the import ones would almost guarantee they sell out instantly.


If they manage to make even close to 200 of those imports and have them all make it to the customer's hands i'd shit myself.


----------



## beerandbeards

Still no Chuck Schuldiner imports available?


----------



## neptoess

For Stranger Things guitars, estimated delivery at 6/1 for customs and 7/1 for imports. https://www.redblanketguitars.com/categories/NETFLIX-Stranger-Things-10_451_482.html


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Of 2024 or 2025?


----------



## neptoess

beerandbeards said:


> Still no Chuck Schuldiner imports available?


Nope, along with the other more recently announced imports, like the Mk1 Ironbirds. At least, for the stealth, the two pickup legacy series one has shipped before.


----------



## neptoess

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Of 2024 or 2025?


2022 supposedly. It will be a pleasant surprise if true.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

neptoess said:


> 2022 supposedly. It will be a pleasant surprise if true.


considering they can't even get stuff from 2 years ago in consistent stock somehow I don't believe them


----------



## xzacx

KnightBrolaire said:


> considering they can't even get stuff from 2 years ago in consistent stock somehow I don't believe them


I kind of agree but I think it’s believable in the sense that a big corporate partnership like this came up and and moved to the front of the line, pushing everything else back. The consequences of being late on these seem like they would be much bigger.


----------



## gunch

why build guitars when you can just build hype?


----------



## Sslfetish

No one needs more guitars. Said no one ever. Well except a cat ....
Shredzilla extreme with mod.


----------



## fantom

neptoess said:


> BC Rich is similar (if they're asking $7300 for this https://bcrich.com/product/erik-rutan-ironbird-7-signature-model/, what do you think a one-off, total custom build would be?). US handcrafted guitars have always been expensive


FWIW, I custom specced an Ironbird with a high grade quilted top and one off color in the late 1990s. It came out to about $2500 before sales tax. I also remember seeing both a custom Stealth and Warlock in the same dealer for a out $1400 and $1600 respectively. I also saw a custom Bich at a different dealer for $1200.

$7300 seems insane considering the brand's reputation kind of tanked with Bernie Jr. and HHI. Maybe that is a MSRP? Even if it was, you would need a 40% discount to make the pricing line up with the inflation adjusted pricing before Bernie Sr. died. Maybe they are charging for all that abalone.


----------



## odibrom

Sslfetish said:


> No one needs more guitars. Said no one ever. Well except a cat ....
> Shredzilla extreme with mod.



Love the neck pickup... lol...


----------



## Sslfetish

I know I'm special lol


----------



## works0fheart

Saw on the BC Rich Instagram that the production model or whatever of the Stranger Things guitar is on sale today for 500. Not sure why it's a one day thing or so cheap, but interesting I guess


----------



## bostjan

works0fheart said:


> Saw on the BC Rich Instagram that the production model or whatever of the Stranger Things guitar is on sale today for 500. Not sure why it's a one day thing or so cheap, but interesting I guess




Isn't it normally $900, and it's not even officially released yet, is it? I'm not on Instagram, so maybe I'm missing context.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

works0fheart said:


> BC Rich Instagram





bostjan said:


> Isn't it normally $900, and it's not even officially released yet, is it? I'm not on Instagram, so maybe I'm missing context.


Lmao apparently they got hacked







I'm guessing it had a link to a shady website.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Lmao apparently they got hacked
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing it had a link to a shady website.



you should've seen the dumb shit they were posting before that, it was a pretty obvious hack and it lasted a while too


----------



## Mathemagician

Any updates on various Stealths? Only checked the last 2 pages or so.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Mathemagician said:


> Any updates on various Stealths? Only checked the last 2 pages or so.


abandon all hope ye who enter here


----------



## manu80

I want a import metallic purple gunslinger ! NOW !!!!!


----------



## Mitri

Apparently Shredzilla has deceptively colored frets.


----------



## mlp187

@Mitri like tarnished? Or gold instead of nickel? Or am I missing a bigger joke?


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

Sslfetish said:


> No one needs more guitars. Said no one ever. Well except a cat ....
> Shredzilla extreme with mod.


Beautiful cats, is one an Abyssinian?


----------



## spudmunkey

TheBolivianSniper said:


> you should've seen the dumb shit they were posting before that, it was a pretty obvious hack and it lasted a while too


A bunch of folks I follow got hacked last week. All crypto shit.


----------



## Sslfetish

Beautiful cats, is one an Abyssinian?

Thank you. No, ones a marbled Bengal and the other is a hybrid Caracal/ Savanah.


----------



## Mitri

mlp187 said:


> @Mitri like tarnished? Or gold instead of nickel? Or am I missing a bigger joke?


Seemed gold at first, now stainless. The frets are polished and shiny. Not tarnished.


----------



## neptoess

Maybe Evo frets?


Mitri said:


> Seemed gold at first, now stainless. The frets are polished and shiny. Not tarnished.


----------



## Mitri

I have a guitfiddle with EVO though. Next to each other shredzilla's frets appear to be steel but isolated, shredzilla's frets appear golden. Maybe I'm just not used to sunlight anymore.


----------



## Mitri

neptoess said:


> Maybe Evo frets?



Possible but doubtful as Shredzilla's frets appear more nickel than my guitar that has Evo fretwire but also sounds more toneful than nickel. An aural/chromatic oddity!


----------



## soul_lip_mike

B.C. Rich Custom Shop Stranger Things “Eddies” NJ Warlock | Reverb


Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.




reverb.com


----------



## neptoess

soul_lip_mike said:


> B.C. Rich Custom Shop Stranger Things “Eddies” NJ Warlock | Reverb
> 
> 
> Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reverb.com


Sweet. At least one exists


----------



## soul_lip_mike

neptoess said:


> Sweet. At least one exists


What’s weird is that one is listed as used. I wonder how someone got hold of one so fast then already decided to sell it.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

DCGL has two USA stranger things too 35 and 36.









B.C. Rich Custom Shop Stranger Things “Eddies” NJ Warlock | Reverb


Reverb is a marketplace bringing together a wide-spanning community to buy, sell, and discuss all things music gear.




reverb.com


----------



## Sslfetish

I cannot fathom how that can remotely be worth that when this is $1400 neck thru , fishmans ebony ... MIK .... as far as I'm concerned it might as well be a tie in to a McDonald's happy meal


----------



## neptoess

Sslfetish said:


> I cannot fathom how that can remotely be worth that when this is $1400 neck thru , fishmans ebony ... MIK .... as far as I'm concerned it might as well be a tie in to a McDonald's happy meal


The specs aren't super impressive, but it's a custom shop guitar. That always carries a pretty hefty price premium. On the labor front alone, it takes more hours to make the custom shop guitar, and the people doing the work cost more per hour.


----------



## coreysMonster

Did BC Rich lose a trademark for the old Beast headstock shape or something, or why are they not making guitars with that anymore? Or have I just been looking in the wrong places

EDIT: Oh they're calling them Warbeasts now. Disregard.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Sslfetish said:


> I cannot fathom how that can remotely be worth that when this is $1400 neck thru , fishmans ebony ... MIK .... as far as I'm concerned it might as well be a tie in to a McDonald's happy meal



I mean if you compare that price to a USA "custom shop" Jackson, ESP USA, or other brands it's pretty comparable. The USA price jumps for production Jacksons like the Misha and Broderick signatures in particular last year put them above $5,000 MSRP.


----------



## neptoess

coreysMonster said:


> Did BC Rich lose a trademark for the old Beast headstock shape or something, or why are they not making guitars with that anymore? Or have I just been looking in the wrong places
> 
> EDIT: Oh they're calling them Warbeasts now. Disregard.


Warbeast is effectively just a beast with the back half of the warlock body.


----------



## STRHelvete

coreysMonster said:


> Did BC Rich lose a trademark for the old Beast headstock shape or something, or why are they not making guitars with that anymore? Or have I just been looking in the wrong places
> 
> EDIT: Oh they're calling them Warbeasts now. Disregard.


Because people prefer the old school headstocks. BC Rich is primarily a nostalgia company


----------



## fantom

coreysMonster said:


> Did BC Rich lose a trademark for the old Beast headstock shape or something, or why are they not making guitars with that anymore? Or have I just been looking in the wrong places
> 
> EDIT: Oh they're calling them Warbeasts now. Disregard.


I really wish they would kill off the beast and widow headstock shapes (except on their respective models) No idea how either of those is so popular. Neither of them look right on any other guitar body.


----------



## STRHelvete

fantom said:


> I really wish they would kill off the beast and widow headstock shapes (except on their respective models) No idea how either of those is so popular. Neither of them look right on any other guitar body.


Shutcho azz up boi.
The beast headstock is perfect on the Virgin, Warbeast, Beast, Draco, and V.
The widow, all depends but it's a classic shape so it deserves to be there.


----------



## Sslfetish

Did u see the neck? . Frankly I don't care.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

bolt-on > neck-thru


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

I'll never understand how the method of construction regarding how the neck attaches to the body can be quantified as an objective metric for it's quality.

Having said that, I prefer bolt-on - easier to service.


----------



## spudmunkey

Crash Dandicoot said:


> I'll never understand how the method of construction regarding how the neck attaches to the body can be quantified as an objective metric for it's quality.
> 
> Having said that, I prefer bolt-on - easier to service.



People get the idea in their head that bolt-ons, pickguards, and rosewood fretboards are all only used in the cheapest of the cheap guitars, with the first two specifically designed to speed up manufacturing efficiency which in many cases in indicative of a lower-quality or at least a less "artisinal" product. However, high-quality examples of each are common despite the ubiquity of them in cheaper guitars.


----------



## neptoess

Crash Dandicoot said:


> I'll never understand how the method of construction regarding how the neck attaches to the body can be quantified as an objective metric for it's quality.
> 
> Having said that, I prefer bolt-on - easier to service.


Well, set necks and neckthrus are certainly harder to make well by hand, but we live in the era of CNCs. The bolt-on hate comes from the fact that, for a long time now, guitar companies that use set or neckthru on their high end models would use bolt-on as a cost cutting measure on their budget models.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Crash Dandicoot said:


> I'll never understand how the method of construction regarding how the neck attaches to the body can be quantified as an objective metric for it's quality.
> 
> Having said that, I prefer bolt-on - easier to service.


more stripes in the neck and the body = betterer apparently
I played all 3 types and I honestly don't give a shit. if anything neck-thru tends to be my least favorite because it does sometimes seem to sound darker than set-neck or bolt-on.


----------



## STRHelvete

Set neck and neck thru all day...cause it's just how it be.


----------



## neptoess

STRHelvete said:


> Set neck and neck thru all day...cause it's just how it be.


I much prefer bolt-on for strats.


----------



## Crash Dandicoot

@spudmunkey @neptoess @HeHasTheJazzHands I mean, I _get_ it - I just think it's asinine. One aspect of wood construction does not a good guitar make. Making arbitrary associations with a given brand's entry/mid/upper-level instruments and their respective choice in neck attachment method then construing that into an objective value system is straight-up weird.



STRHelvete said:


> Set neck and neck thru all day...cause it's just how it be.



About the best argument I've heard.


----------



## STRHelvete

neptoess said:


> I much prefer bolt-on for strats.


Okay..strats don't count.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

I could give a fuck about how the neck is attached to the guitar. I have guitars with set necks, thru necks, bolt ons and they all work fine. I guess if I had to choose I'd choose neck thru only because of the lack of any neck heel gives better upper fret access, though a well designed bolt on or set neck joint will do the same thing.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

apparently those crackle warlocks are made in India and have a floyd special 

but according to the Facebook group the fretwork, build quality, and pickups are really good????

every example I've seen of the paint job is insanely well done, like as good as the crackle on my Ormsby


----------



## neptoess

TheBolivianSniper said:


> apparently those crackle warlocks are made in India and have a floyd special
> 
> but according to the Facebook group the fretwork, build quality, and pickups are really good????
> 
> every example I've seen of the paint job is insanely well done, like as good as the crackle on my Ormsby


India, not Indonesia? That’s very surprising if true. The Floyd Special, I could have guessed that. The thing was priced suspiciously cheap.


----------



## TornAnus

If India can build the guitars in a reasonable amount of time and have decent QC, I dont see the problem with them having all their imports built there. At least customers will get the guitars they pay for.


----------



## jco5055

Saw and played this at the Chicago GC... pretty good! It was #43 of 200, I took a pic of the plate but it turned out terribly blurry haha.

I didn't even know they made the USA Stranger Things Warlocks in black.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Nice hairy leg!


----------



## jco5055

soul_lip_mike said:


> Nice hairy leg!


Come on now, I’m not that hairy haha


----------



## neptoess

jco5055 said:


> Saw and played this at the Chicago GC... pretty good! It was #43 of 200, I took a pic of the plate but it turned out terribly blurry haha.
> 
> I didn't even know they made the USA Stranger Things Warlocks in black.
> View attachment 109194
> View attachment 109195
> View attachment 109196


In typical GC fashion, no bar for the Kahler. It's interesting that the back of the neck is natural finish and not black on the black one though.


----------



## jco5055

neptoess said:


> In typical GC fashion, no bar for the Kahler. It's interesting that the back of the neck is natural finish and not black on the black one though.


Yeah they keep the bar somewhere in the back…I’ve actually brought a spare kahler bar I have in the past to play on the rare kahler they have haha


----------



## cardinal

If GC left the Kahler bar in there some knob would steal it within the hour.


----------



## Marked Man

STRHelvete said:


> Set neck and neck thru all day...cause it's just how it be.



Most definitely for B.C.

Just the thought of a Bolt-On Eagle.......BLASPHEMERS!!!


----------



## neptoess

Still waiting on my Ironbird. Anyone buy one of the Stranger Things custom shop models yet?


----------



## STRHelvete

....I just wanna know about that black and gold Firebird...


----------



## destroyerdogs

STRHelvete said:


> ....I just wanna know about that black and gold Firebird...


Looks like a Kauer Banshee to me.








The Banshee — Kauer Guitars


Completely redesigned for 2015, the Banshee is our road improved version of that winged classic we all grew up listening to. Redesigned from the ground up, we focused years of attention, brainstorming and listening to our touring artists about how to improve the Banshee. By redesigning the shape, we




www.kauerguitars.com


----------



## STRHelvete

destroyerdogs said:


> Looks like a Kauer Banshee to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Banshee — Kauer Guitars
> 
> 
> Completely redesigned for 2015, the Banshee is our road improved version of that winged classic we all grew up listening to. Redesigned from the ground up, we focused years of attention, brainstorming and listening to our touring artists about how to improve the Banshee. By redesigning the shape, we
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kauerguitars.com


Ah.....I'm a bit less interested now


----------



## electriceye

neptoess said:


> The specs aren't super impressive, but it's a custom shop guitar. That always carries a pretty hefty price premium. On the labor front alone, it takes more hours to make the custom shop guitar, and the people doing the work cost more per hour.



I build. I know how much things cost. And BC Rich charging $800 for the import version and over $4k for the "USA" version is a load of horsesh*t. The ONLY difference between them are the pickups and trem. There's not a snowball's chance in hell that axe is worth $4k. It's just not. Yeah, I know CS models from all brands are pricey. In fact, I think prices have gotten outrageous for bare-bones models (take the latest LP Jr DC going for almost $5k for a mahogany slab). I saw the Reverb listing when it was posted and just laughed. And there's not even a "Made in USA" sticker anywhere on the guitar. And...NJ Series were never made in the US. 

Anyone who buys those is a fool.


----------



## neptoess

electriceye said:


> I build. I know how much things cost. And BC Rich charging $800 for the import version and over $4k for the "USA" version is a load of horsesh*t. The ONLY difference between them are the pickups and trem. There's not a snowball's chance in hell that axe is worth $4k. It's just not. Yeah, I know CS models from all brands are pricey. In fact, I think prices have gotten outrageous for bare-bones models (take the latest LP Jr DC going for almost $5k for a mahogany slab). I saw the Reverb listing when it was posted and just laughed. And there's not even a "Made in USA" sticker anywhere on the guitar. And...NJ Series were never made in the US.
> 
> Anyone who buys those is a fool.


I also don’t think they ever offered a red crackle finish with a matte black neck in the 80s NJ series. I bet those 100 will have some collector value. The 100 plain jane black with maple neck custom shop ones? Yeah that’s a very hard sell.

There are almost certainly other differences besides the bridge and the pickups though. I’m sure the custom shop ones actually have decent pots, better tuners, a nicer finish application, actual Jescar fretwire vs whatever cheap junk they can find, a prettier slab of rosewood for the board, etc. You’re certainly paying dearly for it, but it should noticeably be a cut above the import model (at over 5x the cost, it should be though)


----------



## NoodleFace

One thing though. Whether anyone buys that hunk of junk or not - both the show and the custom guitar have people talking about the brand again


----------



## neptoess

NoodleFace said:


> One thing though. Whether anyone buys that hunk of junk or not - both the show and the custom guitar have people talking about the brand again


A lot of us have been talking about the brand. The demand is there, particularly for some of the products that cater to their old school fans, e.g. the legacy series. The Stranger Things guitars are nice tie-ins and collector pieces, but, if people start looking at the other options, and see nothing is available, they’re just going to move on and buy a Jackson, Charvel, Kramer, etc. if they’re wanting an 80s flavored guitar and not wanting to wait 6+ months for it.


----------



## BornToLooze

neptoess said:


> A lot of us have been talking about the brand. The demand is there, particularly for some of the products that cater to their old school fans, e.g. the legacy series. The Stranger Things guitars are nice tie-ins and collector pieces, but, if people start looking at the other options, and see nothing is available, they’re just going to move on and buy a Jackson, Charvel, Kramer, etc. if they’re wanting an 80s flavored guitar and not wanting to wait 6+ months for it.



I mean, I'm a big Stranger Things fan and loved Eddie, but I don't care that it's a Stranger Things guitar, I just want a crackle Warlock.


----------



## neptoess

BornToLooze said:


> I mean, I'm a big Stranger Things fan and loved Eddie, but I don't care that it's a Stranger Things guitar, I just want a crackle Warlock.


Yeah, it’s definitely cool. It’s just a very odd product outside of the Stranger Things tie in. Like, they could do the same thing, but as a higher spec, e.g. neck thru, ebony board, diamond inlays, etc, and sell it for twice as much (import model, not custom shop lol), and people would jump all over it.


----------



## jco5055

Talked to a dealer, and apparently custom builds are averaging out to $9k…Jesus


----------



## TornAnus

The "Quarter 1 2022" guitars are still not released BTW.


----------



## JimF

Just waiting for that Dreadful Gooz YouTube guy to throw his candy orange Prophecy Ironbird for sale as a 1 of 1 ltd edition 
Was that really the only one that made it out into the wild?


----------



## neptoess

JimF said:


> Just waiting for that Dreadful Gooz YouTube guy to throw his candy orange Prophecy Ironbird for sale as a 1 of 1 ltd edition
> Was that really the only one that made it out into the wild?


Nah I’ve seen a few of those on reverb. My understanding is that most of the run had serious QC issues, so only a small number ever got shipped out


----------



## electriceye

jco5055 said:


> Talked to a dealer, and apparently custom builds are averaging out to $9k…Jesus



God damn....I gotta get moving with more builds. I'd kill to make a third of that for any of mine.


----------



## electriceye

neptoess said:


> I also don’t think they ever offered a red crackle finish with a matte black neck in the 80s NJ series. I bet those 100 will have some collector value. The 100 plain jane black with maple neck custom shop ones? Yeah that’s a very hard sell.
> 
> There are almost certainly other differences besides the bridge and the pickups though. I’m sure the custom shop ones actually have decent pots, better tuners, a nicer finish application, actual Jescar fretwire vs whatever cheap junk they can find, a prettier slab of rosewood for the board, etc. You’re certainly paying dearly for it, but it should noticeably be a cut above the import model (at over 5x the cost, it should be though)



No, they've never had a matte black neck on any models. And, as for the rest of the parts, that amounts to, maybe, an extra $100. Even the best pots are cheap. Same with fret wire.


----------



## neptoess

electriceye said:


> No, they've never had a matte black neck on any models. And, as for the rest of the parts, that amounts to, maybe, an extra $100. Even the best pots are cheap. Same with fret wire.


I guess the real question is like, as a builder, who I’m guessing sells directly, what would you charge to make the red crackle Stranger Things custom shop warlock? Now add a markup for BC Rich. Then add a dealer markup. $4600 might be high, but it’s not really astronomical for MAP on a custom shop guitar.


----------



## works0fheart

cardinal said:


> If GC left the Kahler bar in there some knob would steal it within the hour.



True, but don't worry, the guitar center employees have already lost it in the backroom somewhere anyways.



NoodleFace said:


> One thing though. Whether anyone buys that hunk of junk or not - both the show and the custom guitar have people talking about the brand again



Man, people really don't seem to like this guitar? I'm a big fan of it. This guys post beneath this one sum it up for me pretty well.



BornToLooze said:


> I mean, I'm a big Stranger Things fan and loved Eddie, but I don't care that it's a Stranger Things guitar, I just want a crackle Warlock.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

works0fheart said:


> True, but don't worry, the guitar center employees have already lost it in the backroom somewhere anyways.



Don't be silly, they don't lose those. They steal them.


----------



## jonsick

Interesting. Andertons here in the UK (one of the more well known shops given their YouTube presence) has just started to list BC Rich. Due dates on the Stranger Things warlocks seem to be end of July along with a few other models and others are around the 3 month mark. I'm not sure if 3 months is just their maximum time frame on their IT Systems, or if that's an actual prediction for stock delivery. But interesting given the lack of stock everywhere that Andertons have just started offering them for sale.

So I take it that either they are unaware of the overall lack of stock attainable by almost anyone which seems unlikely, Andertons are generally quite a clued up company. Either that or BC Rich are in danger of having sorted their supply chain out. I guess we'll wait and see. 

I was interested in a ST Warlock but the cheap tremolo puts me off. £950 is too much for that, but let's be real. Comparing to other manufacturers who have rocked their prices up massively, there's not too much difference on the price. I bought a Schecter Banshee about a year ago, think that came in around £900. And yep, the FR Special on that was total junk too. I had to replace it with an OFR and do a good amount of other work too, such as levelling frets and sorting the electronics out. I wouldn't call throwing an extra £500 odd into a £900 guitar good either (FR and if I paid a tech to do the fretwork), but it very much does seem to be the norm today. The days of a good basic instrument for the £500 mark are totally gone. So while I may squirm at the £950 price tag for the ST Warlock, the price point doesn't appear to be at all very much different to other brands offering the same quality at the same price point. And it's less quality for more money across the board.


----------



## Edika

jonsick said:


> Interesting. Andertons here in the UK (one of the more well known shops given their YouTube presence) has just started to list BC Rich. Due dates on the Stranger Things warlocks seem to be end of July along with a few other models and others are around the 3 month mark. I'm not sure if 3 months is just their maximum time frame on their IT Systems, or if that's an actual prediction for stock delivery. But interesting given the lack of stock everywhere that Andertons have just started offering them for sale.
> 
> So I take it that either they are unaware of the overall lack of stock attainable by almost anyone which seems unlikely, Andertons are generally quite a clued up company. Either that or BC Rich are in danger of having sorted their supply chain out. I guess we'll wait and see.


It was a similar situation with the Ironbird MK2, they had them advertised with a 3-4 month due date and then they were suddenly "Out of stock" with special order (not sure if they ever had one in stock ever and just sold immediately) and then it just disappeared. Hopefully this will not be the case for these too but I saw the same thing with some of the new LTD's advertised in Andertons and other shops that sell online like PMT, GAK and guitatguitar. They had a generous time frame for being in stock and now their suddenly out of stock.


----------



## NoodleFace

works0fheart said:


> True, but don't worry, the guitar center employees have already lost it in the backroom somewhere anyways.
> 
> 
> 
> Man, people really don't seem to like this guitar? I'm a big fan of it. This guys post beneath this one sum it up for me pretty well.


You either love or hate bc rich style. I just don't like them. If that's your thing though more power to you. Who am I to hate on someone else's choice


----------



## neptoess

Edika said:


> It was a similar situation with the Ironbird MK2, they had them advertised with a 3-4 month due date and then they were suddenly "Out of stock" with special order (not sure if they ever had one in stock ever and just sold immediately) and then it just disappeared. Hopefully this will not be the case for these too but I saw the same thing with some of the new LTD's advertised in Andertons and other shops that sell online like PMT, GAK and guitatguitar. They had a generous time frame for being in stock and now their suddenly out of stock.


Have you tried calling in about it? I’m always curious to know what BCR communicates to its dealers as far as availability.


----------



## Edika

neptoess said:


> Have you tried calling in about it? I’m always curious to know what BCR communicates to its dealers as far as availability.


I didn't to tell you the truth, I was somewhat interested on either the MK2 Ironbirds then and the LTD EX-7 currently but not to the point of calling and asking for more details. 
Even though I know the LTD will most likely be good in terms of quality, fit and finish, I'd probably need to make some space before getting something new in.


----------



## CanserDYI

Sorry not current BC rich but didn't want to make new thread, found this guy at my local shop, didn't know Kahler made a Floyd replacement? Or am I not correct?


----------



## neptoess

CanserDYI said:


> Sorry not current BC rich but didn't want to make new thread, found this guy at my local shop, didn't know Kahler made a Floyd replacement? Or am I not correct?
> 
> View attachment 110999


Not a Floyd replacement necessarily. It was a licensed FR. I think they were called Steelers.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Yeah, Kahler made a ton of fulcrum style bridges of various quality and utility over the years.

The "Traditional", "Spyder", "Killer", and "Steeler" models specifically.

The one pictured is a Steeler (2760), which is the closest to the typical Floyd.


----------



## spudmunkey

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, Kahler made a ton of fulcrum style bridges of various quality and utility over the years.
> 
> The "Traditional", "Spyder", "Killer", and "Steeler" models specifically.
> 
> The one pictured is a Steeler (2760), which is the closest to the typical Floyd.


Was the Steeler the only one where they had to licence parts of the design from Floyd Rose (though I also suspect there were probably some models where they _didn't_ but probably should have, ha!)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> Was the Steeler the only one where they had to licence parts of the design from Floyd Rose (though I also suspect there were probably some models where they _didn't_ but probably should have, ha!)



Yeah, just the Steeler. 

The patents that Floyd would license out were related to the saddles mostly, which is why systems that significantly modify the saddle and how it locks, or if it locks, avoided needing to be licensed. 

Hence the other bridges not running afoul.


----------



## TornAnus

Scooter over at granville guitars doing a setup on a prototype import Rutan sig.

I'd get excited for this if the import were a 7 string version. I have enough 6 strings now.


----------



## DiezelMonster

TornAnus said:


> Scooter over at granville guitars doing a setup on a prototype import Rutan sig.
> 
> I'd get excited for this if the import were a 7 string version. I have enough 6 strings now.



I know it's a prototype but what is it about the import Ironbirds that these companies can't get the fucking top horn right???? hahaha so hilarious considering this guitar is like $3K canadian


----------



## neptoess

DiezelMonster said:


> I know it's a prototype but what is it about the import Ironbirds that these companies can't get the fucking top horn right???? hahaha so hilarious considering this guitar is like $3K canadian


What’s wrong with the top horn? It’s a Mk2


----------



## ste vla jang

zappatton2 said:


> Imagine owning an archtop! They weigh a metric tonne. I used to own this thing, and I'm like 5'6, barely 115lbs, that guitar was sure to cripple me. Sold it when I fell into money "shortfalls" (along with all but 3 of my guitars), but I think I miss it most. I'd gladly buy it back if I had the chance and the coin. No neck dive, lap comfortable, and played and sounded simple amazing. Used to have black hardware, I really regretted changing it to gold, hindsight and all.
> View attachment 59724


is that an archtop custom shop from the FB forum ?.do u have any clear picture of her.. she so beautiful


----------



## DiezelMonster

neptoess said:


> What’s wrong with the top horn? It’s a Mk2


The internal cut on an MKII is straight not rounded, I know that is being picky but if this is a signature model it should be like his USA correct? 

I doubt it will happen but I really dislike the curved inner cut. It has zero practical function but aesthetically I hate it.


----------



## neptoess

DiezelMonster said:


> The internal cut on an MKII is straight not rounded, I know that is being picky but if this is a signature model it should be like his USA correct?
> 
> I doubt it will happen but I really dislike the curved inner cut. It has zero practical function but aesthetically I hate it.


I think they do it to make paint easier in mass manufacturing. The import Mk1s have the same curved internal cut. It sucks, but I think only super picky would pass based on that alone.


----------



## TornAnus

I had to laugh at it being a custom shop to Erik Rutan's specs and his tech immediately moved the volume knob to a different location.


----------



## neptoess

TornAnus said:


> I had to laugh at it being a custom shop to Erik Rutan's specs and his tech immediately moved the volume knob to a different location.


It’s a prototype, to be fair. For all we know, some genius at BCR thought customers would want a tone knob on a death metal guitarist’s signature guitar (though, now that I think about it, you would need one for a Trevor Peres signature lol), so they asked Erik to try it out


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

TornAnus said:


> I had to laugh at it being a custom shop to Erik Rutan's specs and his tech immediately moved the volume knob to a different location.


It's an import, not a custom shop guitar.


----------



## TornAnus

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It's an import, not a custom shop guitar.


ok so its a duplicate of his spec'd out guitar. whatever you wanna call it


----------



## neptoess

TornAnus said:


> ok so its a duplicate of his spec'd out guitar. whatever you wanna call it


Just a prototype. The production models should have the single volume knob, in the right spot








Erik Rutan Signature MK2 with Floyd Rose - B.C. Rich


Erik Rutan is an American heavy metal musician and producer from New Jersey. He is the guitarist and lead vocalist of Hate Eternal and lead guitarist for Cannibal Corpse, who he fully joined in 2021…




bcrich.com


----------



## zappatton2

stevla said:


> is that an archtop custom shop from the FB forum ?.do u have any clear picture of her.. she so beautiful


I don't know if there's pics on the forum, it's been years since I owned it, switched to gold hardware when I changed the pickups, but in retrospect, the black hardware was much nicer.


----------



## DiezelMonster

neptoess said:


> I think they do it to make paint easier in mass manufacturing. The import Mk1s have the same curved internal cut. It sucks, but I think only super picky would pass based on that alone.


Sure, but I'm a die hard Rutan fan and Ironbird fan and it's enough to make me hard pass.


----------



## ste vla jang

zappatton2 said:


> I don't know if there's pics on the forum, it's been years since I owned it, switched to gold hardware when I changed the pickups, but in retrospect, the black hardware was much nicer.
> View attachment 111593


thank u so much..


----------



## neptoess

DiezelMonster said:


> Sure, but I'm a die hard Rutan fan and Ironbird fan and it's enough to make me hard pass.


I have one of these on order https://bcrich.com/product/ironbird-mk1-with-kahler/
I like Ironbirds too. Wouldn't call myself a diehard fan of them though. If I were, I would just do a custom shop order. After all, BC Rich was one of the original full custom shops, and Jackson and ESP were shortly after.
The beauty of BC's current import offerings, even if they have not-entirely-accurate body carves (and this isn't just limited to the Ironbirds), is that people get an awesome guitar, with all the brand's typical flavor (neck carve, fret size, fretboard radius, nut width, pickups, etc.).
If someone buys and loves one of these guitars, and they want to move up to a custom shop, they can rest assured that the custom shop has a decent idea what they're looking for. It's not like asking ESP to give you the neck carve from a 70s Martin D-45.


----------



## ste vla jang

zappatton2 said:


> I don't know if there's pics on the forum, it's been years since I owned it, switched to gold hardware when I changed the pickups, but in retrospect, the black hardware was much nicer.
> View attachment 111593


this is the pic i saw on the forum.. brian cantle,is that you ?


----------



## DiezelMonster

neptoess said:


> I have one of these on order https://bcrich.com/product/ironbird-mk1-with-kahler/
> I like Ironbirds too. Wouldn't call myself a diehard fan of them though. If I were, I would just do a custom shop order. After all, BC Rich was one of the original full custom shops, and Jackson and ESP were shortly after.
> The beauty of BC's current import offerings, even if they have not-entirely-accurate body carves (and this isn't just limited to the Ironbirds), is that people get an awesome guitar, with all the brand's typical flavor (neck carve, fret size, fretboard radius, nut width, pickups, etc.).
> If someone buys and loves one of these guitars, and they want to move up to a custom shop, they can rest assured that the custom shop has a decent idea what they're looking for. It's not like asking ESP to give you the neck carve from a 70s Martin D-45.


----------



## zappatton2

stevla said:


> this is the pic i saw on the forum.. brian cantle,is that you ?


Not me, must be the guy that bought it from me.

I hope it's well loved and well played, in truth if I still had it, it would likely just be gathering dust.


----------



## Alberto7

So, how's BC Rich these days? Do they still have people that were associated to BRJ? How's the quality?

Part of me has always wanted one, but always felt them a bit too whacky. Only recently have I been more forgiving of my weird tastes and have been eyeing some of these guitars a bit more (mainly the Stealth, Mockingbird, and Beast models.) There are some very nice looking examples on Reverb, with really nice cuts of wood on them, and for a lot cheaper than I would have ever imagined. Are they worth it?

Apologies for the very open ended question, but it's gonna take me a while to read through this thread and I don't have much patience.


----------



## neptoess

Go play some in person. Any of the post-ownership change (so 2019+) ones I’ve touched (mostly extreme series warlocks and mockingbirds) have been some of the nicest guitars I’ve ever played. And I own USA Fender, Gibson, and Martin, and have played $10k custom shop guitars.


Alberto7 said:


> So, how's BC Rich these days? Do they still have people that were associated to BRJ? How's the quality?
> 
> Part of me has always wanted one, but always felt them a bit too whacky. Only recently have I been more forgiving of my weird tastes and have been eyeing some of these guitars a bit more (mainly the Stealth, Mockingbird, and Beast models.) There are some very nice looking examples on Reverb, with really nice cuts of wood on them, and for a lot cheaper than I would have ever imagined. Are they worth it?
> 
> Apologies for the very open ended question, but it's gonna take me a while to read through this thread and I don't have much patience.


----------



## Sslfetish

The extremes are really nice after a proper set up. Prices can vary but these days....


----------



## TornAnus

Does anyone know if they built ironbird cases during these last few years? I need a case but really cant find anything good.


----------



## neptoess

TornAnus said:


> Does anyone know if they built ironbird cases during these last few years? I need a case but really cant find anything good.


Mk2? Yes. They’re $300. Part number BCRB9100. There are third party options as well that cost less. If you need a case for a Mk1, I believe third party is your only option.


----------



## Marked Man

electriceye said:


> I build. I know how much things cost. And BC Rich charging $800 for the import version and over $4k for the "USA" version is a load of horsesh*t. The ONLY difference between them are the pickups and trem. There's not a snowball's chance in hell that axe is worth $4k. It's just not. Yeah, I know CS models from all brands are pricey. In fact, I think prices have gotten outrageous for bare-bones models (take the latest LP Jr DC going for almost $5k for a mahogany slab). I saw the Reverb listing when it was posted and just laughed. And there's not even a "Made in USA" sticker anywhere on the guitar. And...NJ Series were never made in the US.
> 
> Anyone who buys those is a fool.



But wait, NJs were made in USA (New Jersey).....right?


----------



## Marked Man

NoodleFace said:


> One thing though. Whether anyone buys that hunk of junk or not - both the show and the custom guitar have people talking about the brand again



BCR stepped up to the plate, then fainted.



They did such a tremendous job with the Legacy series, I couldn't believe they failed to manage the business well enough to promote those (the CORE of the BCR name) and keep the supply going. Weird times globally with various crises (mostly manufactured), but companies that survive overcome somehow. These abalone abominations are not going to be the future for a premier guitar brand. They'll have to keep some that are classic levels of desirability. Otherwise, BCR is only a ghost...

I'd spend $2500 on a very nice MIJ Eagle Classic at this point. But they have to MAKE it first!!!


----------



## neptoess

Marked Man said:


> BCR stepped up to the plate, then fainted.
> 
> 
> 
> They did such a tremendous job with the Legacy series, I couldn't believe they failed to manage the business well enough to promote those (the CORE of the BCR name) and keep the supply going. Weird times globally with various crises (mostly manufactured), but companies that survive overcome somehow. These abalone abominations are not going to be the future for a premier guitar brand. They'll have to keep some that are classic levels of desirability. Otherwise, BCR is only a ghost...
> 
> I'd spend $2500 on a very nice MIJ Eagle Classic at this point. But they have to MAKE it first!!!


Some of the legacy models are easily available, like that mockingbird with the floyd. I think their big mistake was _starting_ with the abalone-encrusted abominations. I have a preorder on the $1900 MIK Mk1 Ironbird with the Kahler. If I like it enough, I might even kick off a custom shop order with them. But this thing was teased as coming out “Q1 22”, and I think I’ll be lucky to get it in 2022 period.


----------



## Hollowway

I've been wanting a Shredzilla 8 FR for a while now, but the initial run of them had questionable QC, from what I've read. Anyone know what the most recent situation for them is?


----------



## neptoess

Hollowway said:


> I've been wanting a Shredzilla 8 FR for a while now, but the initial run of them had questionable QC, from what I've read. Anyone know what the most recent situation for them is?


I don’t know for sure, but I think a lot of those questionable QC guitars got sold as B-stock through MF/GC early on, and I haven’t seen anything new there recently. It could mean the issues have been fixed. It could mean other things too though. Since BC Rich is paying WMI to make these, it’s likely a better business move to reject and send back due to QC than buy and sell them at a discount. I’m just speculating though. I have no idea, honestly.

I would reach out to Damon at Red Blanket. The guy seems to always have the most up-to-date information, and he’s a pleasure to deal with. He also seems to have no issue going out of his way to make sure his customers are happy (see earlier in this thread where he talks about getting a custom flight case made for a customer buying a Stealth). So, even if the QC is dodgy, he’s more likely to let you know there’s something wrong with the guitar and see what you want to do, than just brush the issues off, ship the guitar, and hope you don’t return it. MF did that to me with a $3200 Martin (I got shipped a pretty scuffed up demo model from a GC), and they’ve lost all future instrument purchases from me because of it. To their credit, they did give me a full refund. But I’m not dealing with that again.


----------



## Mathemagician

Hollowway said:


> I've been wanting a Shredzilla 8 FR for a while now, but the initial run of them had questionable QC, from what I've read. Anyone know what the most recent situation for them is?



Godspeed you Hollow emperor.


----------



## D-Nasty

I needs me an Ironbird.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Mathemagician said:


> Godspeed you Hollow emperor.


You called?


----------



## neptoess

D-Nasty said:


> I needs me an Ironbird.


Same. I’ll be posting something whenever I get mine. I’m getting the Kahler version though. If I wanted the Floyd one, I probably would have gotten fed up with waiting by now and gotten an LTD SD-2 instead.


----------



## Marked Man

neptoess said:


> I don’t know for sure, but I think a lot of those questionable QC guitars got sold as B-stock through MF/GC early on, and I haven’t seen anything new there recently. It could mean the issues have been fixed. It could mean other things too though. Since BC Rich is paying WMI to make these, it’s likely a better business move to reject and send back due to QC than buy and sell them at a discount. I’m just speculating though. I have no idea, honestly.
> 
> I would reach out to Damon at Red Blanket. The guy seems to always have the most up-to-date information, and he’s a pleasure to deal with. He also seems to have no issue going out of his way to make sure his customers are happy (see earlier in this thread where he talks about getting a custom flight case made for a customer buying a Stealth). So, even if the QC is dodgy, he’s more likely to let you know there’s something wrong with the guitar and see what you want to do, than just brush the issues off, ship the guitar, and hope you don’t return it. MF did that to me with a $3200 Martin (I got shipped a pretty scuffed up demo model from a GC), and they’ve lost all future instrument purchases from me because of it. To their credit, they did give me a full refund. But I’m not dealing with that again.



Damon is the best source that I know of in the U.S. for the recent BCRs. Highly recommended!


----------



## trem licking

Hollowway said:


> I've been wanting a Shredzilla 8 FR for a while now, but the initial run of them had questionable QC, from what I've read. Anyone know what the most recent situation for them is?


That one i had briefly was SO awesome... Besides the unforgivable flaw. Everything else on the guitar was top notch, was sad i couldn't get another. If you snag one (more specifically the spalted one), check the floyd route where the studs are. There were at least 2 that were routed in the wrong spot. The red ones seemed to be fine. I'd recommend you to get one to check out, from a place with a good return policy of course. The neck and heel-less access was amazing on that thing


----------



## Marked Man

trem licking said:


> That one i had briefly was SO awesome... Besides the unforgivable flaw. Everything else on the guitar was top notch, was sad i couldn't get another. If you snag one (more specifically the spalted one), check the floyd route where the studs are. There were at least 2 that were routed in the wrong spot. The red ones seemed to be fine. I'd recommend you to get one to check out, from a place with a good return policy of course. The neck and heel-less access was amazing on that thing



I have been totally impressed with the materials and craftmanship on my Legacy Bich with no reservations. They used top notch everything, and the DiMarzio D-Activators won me over right away. If they could put those in stores where people could try them out, they could sell as many as they could produce (if they could even produce a normal flow.....which they can't).


----------



## Sslfetish

Agreed. Barring the hate for the abalone overload , the facts remain. 5 piece neck , solid slab of mahogany, neck thru, OFR, pitch black ebony fretboard with binding and no inlay and fishmans. Ymmv.


----------



## neptoess

Sslfetish said:


> Agreed. Barring the hate for the abalone overload , the facts remain. 5 piece neck , solid slab of mahogany, neck thru, OFR, pitch black ebony fretboard with binding and no inlay and fishmans. Ymmv.


Are they actually OFRs? I assumed 1000 series. Unfortunately, unless you get a look at the “Made in Germany” on the bottom of the base plate (or absence of it), they’re visually identical, so it’s not very easy to verify.

Specs aside though, it’s just a good formula (Gibson-esque C neck, huge frets, neck thru body), that they seem to execute on very well. If you’re a fan of the general Gibson feel, but want it a little shreddier, you should definitely check out the current BCR stuff, if you see it on the wall.


----------



## trem licking

neptoess said:


> Are they actually OFRs? I assumed 1000 series. Unfortunately, unless you get a look at the “Made in Germany” on the bottom of the base plate (or absence of it), they’re visually identical, so it’s not very easy to verify.
> 
> Specs aside though, it’s just a good formula (Gibson-esque C neck, huge frets, neck thru body), that they seem to execute on very well. If you’re a fan of the general Gibson feel, but want it a little shreddier, you should definitely check out the current BCR stuff, if you see it on the wall.


Definitely floyd 1000 series, but i have a couple guitars with those and played many others with them and they really aren't performing any differently than the German ones. Hell, the few specials I've played worked just fine


----------



## neptoess

trem licking said:


> Definitely floyd 1000 series, but i have a couple guitars with those and played many others with them and they really aren't performing any differently than the German ones. Hell, the few specials I've played worked just fine


I have an older mockingbird that came with a special, but a previous owner swapped a 1000 series onto. The first thing I noticed was that there was a good amount of play in the bar, no matter how much I tightened it up. Replaced the bar and coupler with a new OFR one and it’s perfect now. I also had some issues with it returning to zero, so I checked the knife edges. They look pretty seriously worn. The old chapstick trick has it working pretty well, but I have a feeling that, if I replaced the base plate with an OFR one, it would take me decades to get to this level of wear on it.

That’s the best part about the Floyd 1000 and Kahler Hybrid honestly. They both are dimensionally identical to the flagship model, so, if you have an issue with a part, you can reliably find replacement parts, and they’re the same ones you would use in the flagship, so you arguably get a small upgrade in the process.


----------



## trem licking

neptoess said:


> I have an older mockingbird that came with a special, but a previous owner swapped a 1000 series onto. The first thing I noticed was that there was a good amount of play in the bar, no matter how much I tightened it up. Replaced the bar and coupler with a new OFR one and it’s perfect now. I also had some issues with it returning to zero, so I checked the knife edges. They look pretty seriously worn. The old chapstick trick has it working pretty well, but I have a feeling that, if I replaced the base plate with an OFR one, it would take me decades to get to this level of wear on it.
> 
> That’s the best part about the Floyd 1000 and Kahler Hybrid honestly. They both are dimensionally identical to the flagship model, so, if you have an issue with a part, you can reliably find replacement parts, and they’re the same ones you would use in the flagship, so you arguably get a small upgrade in the process.


That's odd, the 2 1000s i have get A LOT of use with no lube/full tension action adjustments and have no sign of wear. Paint flaking off in that area is not wear, sometimes people mistake it that way. Return to zero issues can be solved by new posts sometimes too, I'd try that first


----------



## neptoess

trem licking said:


> That's odd, the 2 1000s i have get A LOT of use with no lube/full tension action adjustments and have no sign of wear. Paint flaking off in that area is not wear, sometimes people mistake it that way. Return to zero issues can be solved by new posts sometimes too, I'd try that first


The guitar did come with a special, and the previous owner didn’t replace the lock nut (easy to tell, because the original was black, and the replacement was chrome). Now that I think of it, the posts are black too, so they’re probably the ones from the special.


----------



## Hollowway

Sslfetish said:


> Agreed. Barring the hate for the abalone overload , the facts remain. 5 piece neck , solid slab of mahogany, neck thru, OFR, pitch black ebony fretboard with binding and no inlay and fishmans. Ymmv.


MOSTLY no inlays. There is that one on the 3rd fret. And it's kind of a weird one. 

Honestly, though, it's the abalone overload that keeps these from being the cat's meow, for me.


----------



## neptoess

Hollowway said:


> MOSTLY no inlays. There is that one on the 3rd fret. And it's kind of a weird one.
> 
> Honestly, though, it's the abalone overload that keeps these from being the cat's meow, for me.


Yup. I like almost every Legacy series, and the more stripped down MII Prophecy line. Hopefully, once these production issues get figured out, these things sell like hotcakes, and cause the extreme series to get discontinued


----------



## zappafile123

Whats the word on late 90s to early 2000s USA BC Rich guitars? I've found a NOS 7 string Mockingbird and am about to pull the trigger, but if anyone could provide an overview of what the quality of the guitars coming out of the CS at that time was, that would be super helpful!


----------



## neptoess

zappafile123 said:


> Whats the word on late 90s to early 2000s USA BC Rich guitars? I've found a NOS 7 string Mockingbird and am about to pull the trigger, but if anyone could provide an overview of what the quality of the guitars coming out of the CS at that time was, that would be super helpful!


My understanding is that there was never a bad era for the custom shop.


----------



## zappafile123

neptoess said:


> My understanding is that there was never a bad era for the custom shop.


Nice! I am assuming that a 7s was defs custom shop only


----------



## zappatton2

I saw some cryptic post on the FB site claiming BCR no longer ships to Europe? That can't be right, but if it is, it sure doesn't bode well.


----------



## neptoess

zappatton2 said:


> I saw some cryptic post on the FB site claiming BCR no longer ships to Europe? That can't be right, but if it is, it sure doesn't bode well.





https://www.thomannmusic.com/intl/bc_rich_jvr_extreme_exotic_fr_nt.htm



Thomann has stock. BC Rich website's dealers page lists multiple dealers in Germany.


----------



## manu80

the link leads to 
We have looked everywhere but we unfortunately do not know this product.​


----------



## neptoess

manu80 said:


> the link leads to
> We have looked everywhere but we unfortunately do not know this product.​


My link?


----------



## manu80

Mmm that’s weird…it works now indeed


----------



## cardinal

zappafile123 said:


> Whats the word on late 90s to early 2000s USA BC Rich guitars? I've found a NOS 7 string Mockingbird and am about to pull the trigger, but if anyone could provide an overview of what the quality of the guitars coming out of the CS at that time was, that would be super helpful!


I had a custom shop Warlock from 2000ish. It was a nice guitar but did seem to be "handmade," and there were odd quirks in the fit and finish and I had to run light gauge strings to get the relief where I wanted. I'd read that a few others had this problem with the truss rod but that was a long time ago.

But the fretwork was good and it sounded pretty awesome.


----------



## neptoess

cardinal said:


> I had a custom shop Warlock from 2000ish. It was a nice guitar but did seem to be "handmade," and there were odd quirks in the fit and finish and I had to run light gauge strings to get the relief where I wanted. I'd read that a few others had this problem with the truss rod but that was a long time ago.
> 
> But the fretwork was good and it sounded pretty awesome.


Out of curiosity, was the neck crazy thin? I’ve never experienced weak necks on any of my guitars, but I’m always curious when I hear of someone whose neck can’t get straight (or even into a backbow) with the truss rod nut maxed out.


----------



## cardinal

neptoess said:


> Out of curiosity, was the neck crazy thin? I’ve never experienced weak necks on any of my guitars, but I’m always curious when I hear of someone whose neck can’t get straight (or even into a backbow) with the truss rod nut maxed out.


This was a long time ago. It seemed normal?

I do not know if it was a single action rod (I was pretty clueless at the time). If it was, a washer or two under the truss rod nut would have fixed it entirely.


----------



## neptoess

cardinal said:


> This was a long time ago. It seemed normal?
> 
> I do not know if it was a single action rod (I was pretty clueless at the time). If it was, a washer or two under the truss rod nut would have fixed it entirely.


In this case (neck couldn't get straight enough), double action wouldn't really matter, as far as I understand it. Double action rods can push backbowed necks forward. If the neck is naturally straight or has positive relief, a double action rod doesn't act any different than a single action rod.

Washer under the nut is definitely a pro move though. Sucks that a custom shop guitar would need that, but I guess it probably shipped with light strings, so they never noticed.


----------



## cardinal

neptoess said:


> In this case (neck couldn't get straight enough), double action wouldn't really matter, as far as I understand it. Double action rods can push backbowed necks forward. If the neck is naturally straight or has positive relief, a double action rod doesn't act any different than a single action rod.
> 
> Washer under the nut is definitely a pro move though. Sucks that a custom shop guitar would need that, but I guess it probably shipped with light strings, so they never noticed.


It had some quirks. Like one of the inlays (abalone diamonds) seemed to be one piece of abalone jammed into a hole or gap in another piece, and the seam around it had raised edges and was visible. Like... you couldn't find one piece of abalone to fit a pretty small route for a diamond inlay? Apparently not?

And the end of the first fret was so sharp that I eventually developed a callous on my index finger for it, but until then it just cut me open. Which was pretty metal. But I was too dumb to just file it down some.


----------



## TornAnus

I really wanna get my hands on a 7 string Stealth one of these days.


----------



## neptoess

cardinal said:


> It had some quirks. Like one of the inlays (abalone diamonds) seemed to be one piece of abalone jammed into a hole or gap in another piece, and the seam around it had raised edges and was visible. Like... you couldn't find one piece of abalone to fit a pretty small route for a diamond inlay? Apparently not?
> 
> And the end of the first fret was so sharp that I eventually developed a callous on my index finger for it, but until then it just cut me open. Which was pretty metal. But I was too dumb to just file it down some.


Honestly, both of those things should absolutely not happen with a custom shop guitar. If I were the one who ordered it, I would demand it be fixed before I take delivery (also surprised the dealer didn't catch it).


----------



## cardinal

neptoess said:


> Honestly, both of those things should absolutely not happen with a custom shop guitar. If I were the one who ordered it, I would demand it be fixed before I take delivery (also surprised the dealer didn't catch it).


BC Rich has not been reliable for a long long time. This is not ESP or Schecter where you can send it back and know you'll get it fixed shortly and competently. Back then, you just might never get it back. I remember some saga of a guy who ordered a carved top Warlock from this period. It took years I think and the resulting guitar had a body that was absurdly thin. The owner of course refused it for a rebuild, but I don't think it ever came?

I bought this one used, but I totally get why someone accepted it, considering it was actually functional and otherwise looked awesome.


----------



## neptoess

cardinal said:


> BC Rich has not been reliable for a long long time. This is not ESP or Schecter where you can send it back and know you'll get it fixed shortly and competently. Back then, you just might never get it back. I remember some saga of a guy who ordered a carved top Warlock from this period. It took years I think and the resulting guitar had a body that was absurdly thin. The owner of course refused it for a rebuild, but I don't think it ever came?
> 
> I bought this one used, but I totally get why someone accepted it, considering it was actually functional and otherwise looked awesome.


Ah yeah for a used guitar, I would have just had the fret end taken care of. Even just getting a single inlay replaced isn’t crazy expensive to have a luthier do.


----------



## zappatton2

I seem to recall even the custom shop had a couple of dicey years shortly after Bernie died (around '99/'00). I was pretty active in the BCR forums many moons ago, and can recall stories of bad truss rods, with some custom instruments rendered pretty much unplayable (I'm going strictly off memory, so grain of salt here).

But I did grab a koa CS Eagle in '03, and the clearcoat started pretty much falling off, had a helluva time getting it refinished. I also ordered a CS Beast, paid in installments until it was paid off, BCR abruptly stopped doing business with that dealer, and nobody told me. I would never have known except that I saw a picture of the Beast I ordered displayed for sale at NAMM. I did get my hands on it, but it took some doing (probably more blame on the dealer's end there.

But that was all a long time ago, and I haven't heard any CS horror stories in ages.


----------



## TornAnus

Yeah, I'll never ever pre-order a guitar after what BC Shit put me through for over a year. Fucking incompetent assholes running it now.


----------



## neptoess

TornAnus said:


> Yeah, I'll never ever pre-order a guitar after what BC Shit put me through for over a year. Fucking incompetent assholes running it now.


I've had an Ironbird pre-ordered since January. No clue when I'll get it, but I only had to put 10% down. Unless the dealer somehow disappears, I can get it back whenever I want.

@zappatton2 's stories sound like a proper nightmares though


----------



## TornAnus

neptoess said:


> I've had an Ironbird pre-ordered since January. No clue when I'll get it, but I only had to put 10% down. Unless the dealer somehow disappears, I can get it back whenever I want.
> 
> @zappatton2 's stories sound like a proper nightmares though


You'll never see it and they'll blow smoke up your ass about supply chain issues when literally every other guitar company is putting out product to people who buy it. I wish they would just sell off all the shapes and names to competent builders.


----------



## cardinal

I got a quote for a BC Rich custom a few years ago. No idea who actually was building them then or now. I was not brave enough to submit the order. 

At this point, if I still wanted a custom Warlock, I think I would fly to Tokyo, submit an order for a copy (or something similar) to the ESP Craft house, and fly back when it's done. I'm not sure that would be substantially more expensive that whatever BC Rich is charging now and seems much more likely to actually yield a nice guitar.


----------



## arasys

TornAnus said:


> You'll never see it and they'll blow smoke up your ass about supply chain issues when literally every other guitar company is putting out product to people who buy it. I wish they would just sell off all the shapes and names to competent builders.


I would do terrible things for an actual ESP Ironbird if they sold shapes and names..


----------



## neptoess

cardinal said:


> I got a quote for a BC Rich custom a few years ago. No idea who actually was building them then or now. I was not brave enough to submit the order.
> 
> At this point, if I still wanted a custom Warlock, I think I would fly to Tokyo, submit an order for a copy (or something similar) to the ESP Craft house, and fly back when it's done. I'm not sure that would be substantially more expensive that whatever BC Rich is charging now and seems much more likely to actually yield a nice guitar.


I hear ESP is refusing to copy competitor shapes, even in Japan. People were going to the Japan shops trying to get Hetfield-style Explorer copies made by the custom shop, and getting shot down.

As for pricing, I'm pretty sure an ESP custom is going to be as expensive, or more expensive, than a BC Rich custom, once you actually get it to your home country.


----------



## Rosal76

arasys said:


> I would do terrible things for an actual ESP Ironbird if they sold shapes and names..



Not the exact shape of a B.C. Rich, Ironbird but the ESP/LTD SD-2 does look pretty cool.


----------



## neptoess

Rosal76 said:


> Not the exact shape of a B.C. Rich, Ironbird but the ESP/LTD SD-2 does look pretty cool.
> 
> View attachment 114704


I pretty seriously debated getting one of these instead of the Ironbird I have preordered. Decided I wanted the Kahler and the actual Ironbird shape, but the SD-2 looks like a damn nice guitar. It's also built in the same factory as the Ironbird I ordered, and I don't see it in stock anywhere. That said, I have a feeling that, since I've actually seen videos of people getting these, I could have had one of these by now.

I bought an 85 Jackson to keep the gas at buy while I continue to wait for my Ironbird


----------



## neptoess

TornAnus said:


> You'll never see it and they'll blow smoke up your ass about supply chain issues when literally every other guitar company is putting out product to people who buy it. I wish they would just sell off all the shapes and names to competent builders.


Out of curiosity, @TornAnus , what did you have pre-ordered and when? I hope you're wrong about me never seeing it, but the supply chain thing is right on the money with what I was told. Sounds like you dealt with this quite recently then?


----------



## TornAnus

neptoess said:


> Out of curiosity, @TornAnus , what did you have pre-ordered and when? I hope you're wrong about me never seeing it, but the supply chain thing is right on the money with what I was told. Sounds like you dealt with this quite recently then?


Pre-ordered the prophecy ironbird back in Feb/March 2020 and waited almost a year with no good explanation of the delays. BCR kept giving the dealer I ordered through vague answers or none at all. If you ask me, they never even made the damn black ones. I have not seen a single one of them.


----------



## neptoess

TornAnus said:


> Pre-ordered the prophecy ironbird back in Feb/March 2020 and waited almost a year with no good explanation of the delays. BCR kept giving the dealer I ordered through vague answers or none at all. If you ask me, they never even made the damn black ones. I have not seen a single one of them.


Ah yeah. I was inquiring about the candy apple red one of these last year, before the Mk1 Kahler birds were announced. I would keep an eye on Red Blanket Guitars’ website or add their Reverb store to your daily feed. Not saying you should preorder again, but, if they ship out to any shops at all, they’re likely to get one. Some of the orange and green ones did get shipped this year, and I think black is next on the list. That said, I’ve never seen evidence of a completed black or red one getting shipped to a customer. I heard a massive shipment of these birds from the Indonesian factory got rejected as a whole for QC issues, so I’m really curious what colors were in that shipment.

As for dealer communications: The local dealer that I asked about the red prophecy Ironbird? They said they were going to get in touch with BC Rich and…. never got back to me. The only reason I still have my preorder is because Red Blanket is cool enough to keep me in the loop. BC Rich is making and shipping guitars. And everything they ship that I’ve played is excellent. I would really appreciate if they could figure out how to launch a new model and give accurate ship dates though. Like, imagine being a kid, asking for one of these guitars for Christmas, and it’s just impossible to get one. Imagine being that kid’s parent, asking every dealer in the world when it will ship, and it’s impossible to get any firm answer.

They’re making great stuff, but I really hope they hold off on announcing any new models until they achieve steady production of the like 40 models they’ve announced already. I’d also be fine with them discontinuing the Extreme series as a whole to focus on their other lines (once they start moving a decent quantity of them), but I doubt that will happen.


----------



## JimF

TornAnus said:


> I wish they would just sell off all the shapes and names to competent builders.



With BC Rich having new management (in the past few years) and the instruments being made in WMI (or similar, I forget), isn't this essentially what they've done?


----------



## neptoess

JimF said:


> With BC Rich having new management (in the past few years) and the instruments being made in WMI (or similar, I forget), isn't this essentially what they've done?


The new management (at least the CEO) has been involved in one way or another with BCR since the mid-00s. This is somewhat encouraging to me, because I started playing in the mid-00s, and remember the trash BCR was shoveling out (they made nice stuff too, but everything I ever saw at a shop was junk). I even got an NJ Classic Bich for Christmas that I returned because of a low fret. The stuff I've played that was made under the new management is nothing like this. These guitars feel high-end to me (and I own USA Jackson, Gibson, Fender, Martin), regardless of where they're made.

That said, this is still a dramatically different company than the BCR of the late-70s to early-80s. Same with Jackson, Fender, Gibson, etc. All these brands have been bought and sold numerous times, and that's why the guitars from their golden eras are still worth so much. Martin is the only one I know of that's still run by the same people who have been running it since the beginning. It's just too bad Martin doesn't make pointy metal guitars in that cute little shop in Pennsylvania.


----------



## JimF

Ah okay, thats good to know!


----------



## TornAnus

There are several 7string stealths on ebay being sold from Japan all around $1,900 but every listing is using the same pictures. I really want one of those but the listings are fishy.


----------



## JimF

Sounds like standard Japanese proxy sellers.
Basically, there will be one guitar available in a used goods store in Japan, and each seller (totally separate to the next) will simply go and purchase the guitar, at a massive profit, when you click the "Buy it Now".
As an example, there's a Jackson SLS3 up at £1200 or so on eBay from about 8 of these sellers, a quick bit of Googling found it on the Hardoff website, and the price worked out at £850. Granted that doesn't have shipping, but still.


----------



## cardinal

yeah, there's nothing particularly fishy about it. I've used the proxy sellers sometimes. It's true that they price to make themselves a profit above the actually cost of the guitar from whichever store, but often they are providing a useful service. A lot of these stores don't want to deal with international shipping (and who can blame them). Just look for one with good feedback, even if they aren't the lowest price.


----------



## Metal-Box

I’ve spoken to the CEO on the phone recently and he really cares about the brand. I was surprised he took the time to talk to me. There are a lot of issues they are working out and I think they will eventually come out on top. The timing of the global pandemic didn’t help anyone.


----------



## ste vla jang

*I want this beast 7 St Carved Top*


----------



## neptoess

stevla said:


> *I want this beast 7 St Carved Top*
> View attachment 117755
> View attachment 117756


Hit up a custom shop dealer and let us know what they quote you


----------



## STRHelvete

stevla said:


> *I want this beast 7 St Carved Top*
> View attachment 117755
> View attachment 117756


I just violently orgasmed...dear god


----------



## Damon67

For everyone who's placed pre-orders on the Ironbirds and Stealths, and other misc. things, most everything's that been announced should be out by February, along with a Buch of things you haven't heard about yet. Next year will be their biggest year yet (since relaunch) according to what I'm hearing. I already have some things, but can't show 'em till the new year. I think BC Rich fans are going to be very happy next year... unless you're a lefty. It'll be a while before an more lefties come out.

I will say I currently have an example of an Evertune 7 and 8 here, both Shredzillas. We will see some other 7s in different shapes this coming year, so... that makes me very happy too.


----------



## ste vla jang

neptoess said:


> Hit up a custom shop dealer and let us know what they quote you



Not seeing much of Beast carved top..

that GMW custom,but lee wont build any BC rich Model anymore.. 
The Custom Shop Iron bird flat top erik Rutan $ 7K ,cant imagine how beast will cost.
maybe ill CNC those..


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

Damon67 said:


> For everyone who's placed pre-orders on the Ironbirds and Stealths, and other misc. things, most everything's that been announced should be out by February, along with a Buch of things you haven't heard about yet. Next year will be their biggest year yet (since relaunch) according to what I'm hearing. I already have some things, but can't show 'em till the new year. I think BC Rich fans are going to be very happy next year... unless you're a lefty. It'll be a while before an more lefties come out.
> 
> I will say I currently have an example of an Evertune 7 and 8 here, both Shredzillas. We will see some other 7s in different shapes this coming year, so... that makes me very happy too.



Honestly dude I'd love to see new things coming out and getting into people's hands but it's been months since I've seen their stuff back in stock. The quality was just getting better and then they dipped on the Prophecy II series and then things just stopped appearing. If there's more pointy 7s in production I'd be first in line even though I don't have the cash but I don't want to buy a thing from my favorite company given their track record in the past 3 years. 

Also disclaimer, every modern BCR I've played has been sheer perfection even if they were left to rot in Guitar Center. I love my stealth 7 and it's the guitar that fits my hands perfectly, and I've been a dedicated BCR fan boy for years now. I just wanna see a creative and fun company delivering on some very exciting promises.


----------



## ADADAD

Damon67 said:


> For everyone who's placed pre-orders on the Ironbirds and Stealths, and other misc. things, most everything's that been announced should be out by February, along with a Buch of things you haven't heard about yet. Next year will be their biggest year yet (since relaunch) according to what I'm hearing. I already have some things, but can't show 'em till the new year. I think BC Rich fans are going to be very happy next year... unless you're a lefty. It'll be a while before an more lefties come out.
> 
> I will say I currently have an example of an Evertune 7 and 8 here, both Shredzillas. We will see some other 7s in different shapes this coming year, so... that makes me very happy too.


All I want is a Chuck sig. Just one Chuck sig. And they won't give it to me.


----------



## neptoess

Damon67 said:


> For everyone who's placed pre-orders on the Ironbirds and Stealths, and other misc. things, most everything's that been announced should be out by February, along with a Buch of things you haven't heard about yet. Next year will be their biggest year yet (since relaunch) according to what I'm hearing. I already have some things, but can't show 'em till the new year. I think BC Rich fans are going to be very happy next year... unless you're a lefty. It'll be a while before an more lefties come out.
> 
> I will say I currently have an example of an Evertune 7 and 8 here, both Shredzillas. We will see some other 7s in different shapes this coming year, so... that makes me very happy too.


Can’t wait for my Mk1 Kahler Ironbird


----------



## STRHelvete

ADADAD said:


> All I want is a Chuck sig. Just one Chuck sig. And they won't give it to me.


NO! YOU'RE ON DRUGS!


----------



## sell2792

ADADAD said:


> All I want is a Chuck sig. Just one Chuck sig. And they won't give it to me.





neptoess said:


> Can’t wait for my Mk1 Kahler Ironbird



Yo, can I get a Stealth with a Kahler?!


----------



## Hollowway

Damon67 said:


> For everyone who's placed pre-orders on the Ironbirds and Stealths, and other misc. things, most everything's that been announced should be out by February, along with a Buch of things you haven't heard about yet. Next year will be their biggest year yet (since relaunch) according to what I'm hearing. I already have some things, but can't show 'em till the new year. I think BC Rich fans are going to be very happy next year... unless you're a lefty. It'll be a while before an more lefties come out.
> 
> I will say I currently have an example of an Evertune 7 and 8 here, both Shredzillas. We will see some other 7s in different shapes this coming year, so... that makes me very happy to


There was talk a couple of years ago about a Shredzilla 8 with Floyd but in a plainer style then the current one (i.e. sans abalone). Any idea if that's still likely to happen?


----------



## gunch

Eagle or I will riot


----------



## neptoess

sell2792 said:


> Yo, can I get a Stealth with a Kahler?!


From the custom shop? Absolutely. @Damon67 showed a couple Kahler’d Stealths that have since sold in this thread.

Production model-wise, the Mk1 Ironbird is the only one I know of offered with a Kahler, and no one’s gotten their hands on one yet. I’ve had my preorder in for almost a year.


----------



## JimF

From Instagram:







Then randomly on another account:


----------



## neptoess

JimF said:


> From Instagram:
> 
> View attachment 117926
> View attachment 117928
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then randomly on another account:
> 
> View attachment 117927


Oh damn. White Prophecy 2 birds have never been shown on the official site

EDIT: BCR’s reply is _slightly_ disingenuous. Yes, at least one guitar has been made of every model shown on the website. And yes, BC Rich guitars are being made, sent to dealers, and selling very quickly. But a significant number of models have not shown up anywhere, particularly Ironbirds other than the Extreme series. Because the guy was complaining particularly about Ironbirds, it’s likely he’s looking for a Prophecy 2, Erik Rutan import, or Mk1. Of those, I’ve only heard of actual customers getting their hands on Prophecy 2s, but only in orange or green, and there aren’t a lot of them out there.


----------



## beerandbeards

I call foul on BC Rich. I’ve searched for a new Chuck Schuldiner sig since they announced it nothing ever popped up except for the Custom Shop version. I don’t believe anything other than Shredzillas have made it to stores. I know the shipping container issue was a thing but is it still?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

the only newer ironbirds I've seen in the wild are a few prophecy models (like 3) and the godawful extreme line. WHERE ARE THE RUTAN SIGS FFS


----------



## neptoess

beerandbeards said:


> I call foul on BC Rich. I’ve searched for a new Chuck Schuldiner sig since they announced it nothing ever popped up except for the Custom Shop version. I don’t believe anything other than Shredzillas have made it to stores. I know the shipping container issue was a thing but is it still?


I don’t know about the import Chuck sig, but some Legacy series Stealths definitely made it to dealers. And I’ve personally seen new Warlocks and Mockingbirds on the rack in a store.

As for what the actual issue is, there’s no one great answer from what I understand. It might be worth pointing out that all BC Rich production models are made by factories that BC Rich doesn’t control (custom shop stuff is different). The launch of the US made Gunslinger and ST seems to have gone fairly smoothly, as did the limited run of Indian-made Stranger Things Warlocks. The stuff people are waiting on is made in Indonesia and Korea, at factories that are under contract with multiple guitar manufacturers. BC Rich is not their biggest customer. So it’s quite possible that the factories are just refusing to work on the new product launches, since they have enough volume of existing product to keep all the workers busy. In addition, since the older model lines (Extreme series for instance) are still shipping, and prototypes have been made and signed off, that puts BCR in a tough spot. I’ve heard BCR is still unrelenting on QC as well, to the extent that entire batches of certain models were rejected and sent back to the factory. This is a bit of a double-edged sword. Dealers and customers won’t get poorly made guitars, but the factory will also need to put more labor and/or more expensive labor into making those guitars meet the QC standard.

This is all speculation on my part. I thankfully don’t NEED the guitar, as I’m a hobbyist, so I’m happy to keep waiting on my Mk1 Ironbird preorder (which has been in since January) virtually forever. Though I’m also watching used listings. An 85 Rhoads popped up for the right price that ended my Jackson browsing. The same could happen with an Ironbird.


----------



## Aliascent

I want that white ironbird 


JimF said:


> From Instagram:
> 
> View attachment 117926
> View attachment 117928
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then randomly on another account:
> 
> View attachment 117927


----------



## TornAnus

Do any of you here own a Jr V 7 string? The purple one from about 10 years ago. That is my current GAS.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

Since I'm on a total Mick Thomson burn, I wish Bc Rich would reissue this.


----------



## neptoess

Esp Griffyn said:


> Since I'm on a total Mick Thomson burn, I wish Bc Rich would reissue this.
> View attachment 117985


Widow headstock? Cringey edgelord inlays? No thanks. Now, if the custom shop did a tribute to this, I might be interested



EDIT: I did hear we might see something like this coming from the custom shop at some point…


----------



## beerandbeards

Esp Griffyn said:


> Since I'm on a total Mick Thomson burn, I wish Bc Rich would reissue this.
> View attachment 117985



Dude I remember in high school being such a big Slipknot fan. I would look through whatever guitar catalog there was and wishing I had money to buy Mick’s Warlock model.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

beerandbeards said:


> Dude I remember in high school being such a big Slipknot fan. I would look through whatever guitar catalog there was and wishing I had money to buy Mick’s Warlock model.



Yeah, I remember the cheap starter pack Mick Thomson models, the respectably decent mid range models and the expensive and rare US models.

The mid range ones aren't too hard to get but I really want a US model and they are rare as rocking horse shit.

I know they're not to everyone's taste, but like them or not, Mick's association with the brand must have been worth a good amount of money to the company in the early 00s. I know people who bought those signature guitars who would have never bought a BC Rich otherwise.


----------



## neptoess

Esp Griffyn said:


> Yeah, I remember the cheap starter pack Mick Thomson models, the respectably decent mid range models and the expensive and rare US models.
> 
> The mid range ones aren't too hard to get but I really want a US model and they are rare as rocking horse shit.
> 
> I know they're not to everyone's taste, but like them or not, Mick's association with the brand must have been worth a good amount of money to the company in the early 00s. I know people who bought those signature guitars who would have never bought a BC Rich otherwise.


Mick was definitely a big BC Rich artist in the early 00s. No doubt about it. I just don’t care for his signature models. That’s fine though. I don’t care for Vai’s either, and Ibanez owes so much of their success to him, it’s not even funny.


----------



## jonsick

neptoess said:


> Mick was definitely a big BC Rich artist in the early 00s. No doubt about it. I just don’t care for his signature models. That’s fine though. I don’t care for Vai’s either, and Ibanez owes so much of their success to him, it’s not even funny.


And Joe Satriani!
I always found him more listenable at least.


----------



## Edika

I like the white Ironbird but I'm not going to like the price for sure. I think the Khaler one was advertised at 1899 and I don't think the white will be that much different


----------



## JimF

That white one looks to be in the Prophecy range, which are up on Red Blanket Guitars (different colours) for $1099


----------



## neptoess

JimF said:


> That white one looks to be in the Prophecy range, which are up on Red Blanket Guitars (different colours) for $1099


This is correct. That white one is a Prophecy 2 series, made in Indonesia. The Mk1, Extreme series, and Rutan import are all made in Korea, and accordingly more expensive


----------



## Metal-Box

JimF said:


> Hardoff website,



Hardoff. LOL

A store name that always made me chuckle


----------



## JimF

Latest from Insta


----------



## JimF




----------



## neptoess

JimF said:


> Latest from Insta
> 
> View attachment 118292


Black and white Prophecy 2 Ironbirds. Very cool. I’m still guessing none have shipped to dealers/customers yet though, right?


----------



## neptoess

JimF said:


> View attachment 118293


If only it were Mk1


----------



## mungiisi

The Ironbird Prophecy MK II is sold out everywhere and there's none available even in the used market. I suppose this is quite exceptional as in the end it's an import production model. How many did they make of those after all?


----------



## neptoess

mungiisi said:


> The Ironbird Prophecy MK II is sold out everywhere and there's none available even in the used market. I suppose this is quite exceptional as in the end it's an import production model. How many did they make of those after all?


I’ve only seen picture / video evidence of two of the orange ones. Very few of these have ever made it to customers from what I understand.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

New birds were in stock for all of 10 hours. Woke up and they were all gone.


----------



## neptoess

TheBolivianSniper said:


> New birds were in stock for all of 10 hours. Woke up and they were all gone.


Where at?


----------



## dhgrind

t


TheBolivianSniper said:


> New birds were in stock for all of 10 hours. Woke up and they were all gone.


they've been restocked apparently. i have one in my cart but i'm very skeptical buying it will result in receiving one.\

jk - back out of stock as i refreshed the page.

maybe they will actually have more. who knows.

This is all on the bcrich.com site btw.


----------



## mungiisi

If only they could ship to EU as well...


----------



## dhgrind

They have the black pearl on backorder - mine already has been shipped. Go snatch one up if they’re still up and you’ve been waiting.


----------



## jonsick

mungiisi said:


> If only they could ship to EU as well...



I doubt we'll be getting anything for quite a while yet.


----------



## zappatton2

I have noticed a lot more people showing off their new Ironbirds on FB, I guess some stock must finally be moving.


----------



## neptoess

zappatton2 said:


> I have noticed a lot more people showing off their new Ironbirds on FB, I guess some stock must finally be moving.


Saw this one in my Reverb feed email. Always fun to see what kind of upcharge gets thrown on the resale









Bc rich Ironbird 2022 - Pearl white (brand new) | Reverb


Just recieved in the mail and taken out of the box sent directly from bc rich one hour ago. Played for 5 minutes. Hard to find and sold out pearl white bc rich prophecy mk2 a rad shredder guitar with a very cool paint job. Comes with a brand new white strap shipped in the original bc rich box. I ...




reverb.com


----------



## dhgrind

I just got my bird in an hour ago. 

Paint was 7/10

No neck issues/ sharp frets or dead spots, low action 9/10

Dimarzio pickup (just personal preference) 5/10 

Neck dive 4/10 


Overall style - offset block inlays, sparkle paint, single pup, pointy AF, lacking giant harpoon headstock 7/10 


I don’t have my rig available to really blast on it, nor can I do a proper setup in the next few days. So I’m deciding how I feel about It.


----------



## neptoess

dhgrind said:


> I just got my bird in an hour ago.
> 
> Paint was 7/10
> 
> No neck issues/ sharp frets or dead spots, low action 9/10
> 
> Dimarzio pickup (just personal preference) 5/10
> 
> Neck dive 4/10
> 
> 
> Overall style - offset block inlays, sparkle paint, single pup, pointy AF, lacking giant harpoon headstock 7/10
> 
> 
> I don’t have my rig available to really blast on it, nor can I do a proper setup in the next few days. So I’m deciding how I feel about It.


Do you want to go into detail on your numbering? Like, why is the paint 7/10? Why is the neck dive 4/10?


----------



## dhgrind

neptoess said:


> Do you want to go into detail on your numbering? Like, why is the paint 7/10? Why is the neck dive 4/10?


Of course the problem with the paint - neck joint has paint missing on the top/front and the satin paint job for the neck, there is gloss paint on the fret board sides in some parts but then disappears in others.

Neck dive is a 4/10 because I put it on my most grippy wide strap and holding it at the 2-3 o clock position and letting go it’ll swing down to 5-6 o clock position. I’m sure if I dumped a ton of brass upgrades in the body it would equalize a bit more.


----------



## neptoess

dhgrind said:


> Of course the problem with the paint - neck joint has paint missing on the top/front and the satin paint job for the neck, there is gloss paint on the fret board sides in some parts but then disappears in others.
> 
> Neck dive is a 4/10 because I put it on my most grippy wide strap and holding it at the 2-3 o clock position and letting go it’ll swing down to 5-6 o clock position. I’m sure if I dumped a ton of brass upgrades in the body it would equalize a bit more.


Okay thanks for elaborating. As for the neck dive thing, I usually use my right leg to assist with this when playing my various Vs standing up. The Ironbird should be similar to a Rhoads in that way. Of course, if you prefer a higher strap height, I have no idea what you would do lol


----------



## Celtic Frosted Flakes

Meanwhile at the B.C. Rich office in the mid 80s.


----------

