# New Ibanez semi-custom series incoming



## Bastian93 (Sep 30, 2019)

Just found an interesting video from Session-Music (German instrument dealer) at the Guitar Summit 2019. 
They talked about a new custom shop program by Ibanez. Short summary:

- unique instruments
- able to choose woods - they will send pictures of their actual top woods to you, so you can choose a flame/burst/etc top that is to your liking
- other options are colors, PUs, Trem
- supposed to be a step up compared to their J-Custom series(more exclusive)
- must have the tree of life inlays

Source: 

Thoughts?


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## ThePIGI King (Sep 30, 2019)

A step up fro J.custom? I'd be interested, but if it costs even more and HAS to have ToL inlay they won't have as much love as they want.

That being said, I love that inlay and would pay custom shop money for Ibanez. So they have a potential sale in some years 

EDIT: If they did an 8 string edge that was only in this line they would have all the sales.


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## StevenC (Sep 30, 2019)

Will they build an RG2228 with a wenge neck, a trem and 3 single coils?


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## Leviathus (Sep 30, 2019)

An Ibby custom shop for consumers is a pretty huge deal, they've been without one for so long now. Thanks for translating the bullet points to English, OP! What's with the "Has to have the Vine of Trees" stuff though? I like that inlay, but it's an odd thing to require.

Also, that daphne blue AZ looks pretty mean.


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## Bastian93 (Sep 30, 2019)

StevenC said:


> Will they build an RG2228 with a wenge neck, a trem and 3 single coils?



Yeah that's the important question, haha. My guess would be no 

But this definitly is a step in that direction. Who knows what's possible, if that series will be successfull.


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## Randy (Sep 30, 2019)

Feels like a spin-off of the Axe Palace short runs. Anybody else doing exclusive builds with them?


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## Lorcan Ward (Sep 30, 2019)

About time!!! The mark up will be a lot if they are one ofs. I’m guessing mayones prices. I’m cool with the tree of life inlay since I like it but I know it puts a lot of people off.

My prototype Ibby is a noticeable step up from J-custom, it they were making instruments of that quality and playability then people are really in for a treat. I’d have been prepared to pay a lot a few years ago to get similar instruments with different finishes and top woods.


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## Webmaestro (Sep 30, 2019)

Well damn. This is something I've been dreaming about since I was about 16 (and that was many, many, many years ago).

Please god, if this happens, let 7-string models be included.

If this comes to fruition, it'll be interesting to see what options will ultimately be available and how much configuration flexibility we'll have.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 30, 2019)

Don't get your hopes up guys.


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## sakeido (Sep 30, 2019)

if they roll it out you better get your money in ASAP because apparently every custom shop in the world is eventually overrun by demand and either shuts down or goes to endorsee only


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## binz (Sep 30, 2019)

Why tree of life o lay though? Sounds super odd to me.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 30, 2019)

binz said:


> Why tree of life o lay though? Sounds super odd to me.



So they can use existing J.Custom necks.


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## c7spheres (Sep 30, 2019)

I was so stoked and then saw must have TOL inlay. Jesus Ibanez, get a clue.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Sep 30, 2019)

My only complaint is that I literally don't have the money to participate.
....yet. 
You bet your ass I'll be shoving my way into line as soon as I do.

I've thought for years that Ibanez needs some kind of modular semi-custom shop, since every model they put is met with tons of "if only X were Y" complaints; it's a phenomena that seems especially prevalent with them. 
As for the inlay...I'm guessing that since it's kind of their brand signature, strictly associated with their high-end offerings, they want it to serve as a recognizable, visible quality indicator? I dunno. Also don't care; I absolutely love the J. Custom vine. Funnily enough, since I can't stand the Vai vine.


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## spudmunkey (Sep 30, 2019)

binz said:


> Why tree of life o lay though? Sounds super odd to me.



I suppose it could be a way of gate-keeping. Add something high-end with limited appeal and/or high cost, and you then artificially limit the demands on the production line/custom shop, while being able to pocket some real profit to re-invest to be able to support a higher volume. Then, at least the first batches of instruments that come our of the shop will scream "flagship" as those inlays, to most people, are seen as a "luxury" spec.

IMO.


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## Mathemagician (Sep 30, 2019)

Yep. This is going to be expensive AF. And that’s fine.


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## c7spheres (Sep 30, 2019)

"if only X were Y" complaints; 
[/QUOTE]
I've been saying for years they just need to start selling parts including necks and bodys. Build your own type thing and make a dang 25.5 scale 7 string neck with blank black ebony fretboard. They refuse to do it. Like it's some type of curse if they do or somthing, but you see the pro's with it on thier J customs all the time. Why is it so hard to do less work? At this point I think they're just being assholes or something. I like the vine inlays, just not on my guitars.


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## Seabeast2000 (Sep 30, 2019)

I was hoping it was going to be something JUST LIKE the Schecter BYO USA thing. But... I guess I'll just wait until Ibanez formally rolls it out to see...


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## diagrammatiks (Sep 30, 2019)

Higher then j custom? Man I’ve always wanted to pay 5k for an Ibanez.


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## Vyn (Sep 30, 2019)

If they are willing to do something similar to a 565 including reverse headstock then damn!


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## jco5055 (Sep 30, 2019)

I'm tentatively excited...like semi-custom Ibanez? Yes.
Higher quality than J Custom? Yes.
Price probably like $5k for the most basic model? Ehhhhh


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## diagrammatiks (Sep 30, 2019)

jco5055 said:


> I'm tentatively excited...like semi-custom Ibanez? Yes.
> Higher quality than J Custom? Yes.
> Price probably like $5k for the most basic model? Ehhhhh



650 dollar used prestige s 

or 5k for a new one with a reverse headstock and fancy inlays. 

indecision intensifies.


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## Jeff (Sep 30, 2019)

Meh. Unless you can get different neck options, like rounder radius, thicker necks, different pickup configurations, etc. it’s not really custom. Just an excuse to charge more money. If this even happens, it’s just a lame cash grab.


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## AxeHappy (Sep 30, 2019)

I mean, if it's marketed as a semi-custom essentially Modular version of factory models you can't really bag on them for not being a full on custom shop eh?


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## jco5055 (Oct 1, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> 650 dollar used prestige s
> 
> or 5k for a new one with a reverse headstock and fancy inlays.
> 
> indecision intensifies.



That reminds me that I always thought that the S seemed like a more ergonomic guitar than the RG, or at least has more potential than it is being used as and has ever been used by Ibanez, but it seems like for whatever reason the RG will always be the king.


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## Jeff (Oct 1, 2019)

AxeHappy said:


> I mean, if it's marketed as a semi-custom essentially Modular version of factory models you can't really bag on them for not being a full on custom shop eh?



that all depends on how much they charge for the privilege.


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## Señor Voorhees (Oct 1, 2019)

What's all this TOL inlay only being on high end models nonsense? The $500 jem jr's have them, don't they? I like the inlay, but that'd be a deal breaker to me. (If I was even a potential customer to begin with.)

The only thing I want from Ibanez, to be honest, is a decently priced 7 string stoneman. I like the idea of ibanez doing a kiesel type deal, but the thought of the price scares my ramen eatin' self. Especially if it's a step up from j custom. Gives the moths in my empty wallet heart attacks.


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## Vegetta (Oct 1, 2019)

I like the idea of this but it will probably be too expensive


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 1, 2019)

So many possibilities if they offered a lot of spec options.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 1, 2019)

Señor Voorhees said:


> What's all this TOL inlay only being on high end models nonsense? The $500 jem jr's have them, don't they? I like the inlay, but that'd be a deal breaker to me. (If I was even a potential customer to begin with.)
> 
> The only thing I want from Ibanez, to be honest, is a decently priced 7 string stoneman. I like the idea of ibanez doing a kiesel type deal, but the thought of the price scares my ramen eatin' self. Especially if it's a step up from j custom. Gives the moths in my empty wallet heart attacks.



There's actually two different TOL inlays. There's the Vai-style vine, which you find on all of the JEMs (including the Jrs). Then there's the J. Custom vine, which, to my knowledge anyway, has never appeared on a non-J.Custom guitar save for the limited run RG2820s in the early 2000s. In my opinion, they look substantially different. And while I adore the latter, I have enough distaste for the former to sympathize with anyone who's bummed out about being stuck with the vine. 
--
As far as pricing goes, I think this whole thing's really only going to palatable to the guys that don't really see Ibanez as a 'cheaper' brand. This whole shindig is probably marketed to the people that are _already_ buying J.Customs and want more options. If Ibanez is 'your thing,' the same way those super loaded dudes with a half dozen private stocks have PRS as 'their thing,' it's for you.


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## AxeHappy (Oct 1, 2019)

Jeff said:


> that all depends on how much they charge for the privilege.



I'm not attempting to be douchey or antagonistic here, but I actually don't understand the reasoning/logic being used here? If they're selling what they are advertising how can one complain about the product not being something it wasn't intended to be? 

If they're advertising that it is a full on custom shop and then it isn't, give them fucking hell, but price seems to be an entirely separate issue? In Canada the top of the line factory stuff is already priced into quality custom electric guitar range. 


Anyways, colour me cautiously optimistic. But If these are $7000 like the Sugi stuff...I'd just go buy a Spalt.


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## spudmunkey (Oct 1, 2019)

AxeHappy said:


> I'm not attempting to be douchey or antagonistic here, but I actually don't understand the reasoning/logic being used here? If they're selling what they are advertising how can one complain about the product not being something it wasn't intended to be?



I think the issue isn't how they are presenting it, but if, in fact, they will be priced as if it's a full-on custom shop, but only offer semi-custom, semi-production offerings. They can say that they have a limited menu until they are blue in the face, but I think what he's saying is that he's not confident that the pricing will reflect that.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 1, 2019)

If you think the price reflects “full custom shop” and they’re only offering “semi custom shop”and you buy one anyway, then you deserve to have to live with the disappointment and potential ridicule that telling your friends you didn’t go “full custom” will bring you


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## StevenC (Oct 1, 2019)

spudmunkey said:


> I think the issue isn't how they are presenting it, but if, in fact, they will be priced as if it's a full-on custom shop, but only offer semi-custom, semi-production offerings. They can say that they have a limited menu until they are blue in the face, but I think what he's saying is that he's not confident that the pricing will reflect that.


What has pricing got to do with available options?


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## cardinal (Oct 1, 2019)

Well I think it's cool. It'll probably be expensive and maybe they won't offer anything for the models I'd want (8 string), but it's certainly cool for the folks that it does work out for. 

It's not like you can really buy a guitar that's built "nicer" than an Ibanez J-Custom (certainly can find different and more expensive ones), so whatever the ultimate cost, hard to say it'd be objectively over priced.


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## Señor Voorhees (Oct 1, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> There's actually two different TOL inlays. There's the Vai-style vine, which you find on all of the JEMs (including the Jrs). Then there's the J. Custom vine, which, to my knowledge anyway, has never appeared on a non-J.Custom guitar save for the limited run RG2820s in the early 2000s. In my opinion, they look substantially different. And while I adore the latter, I have enough distaste for the former to sympathize with anyone who's bummed out about being stuck with the vine.



I was not aware of this. Thanks for the info! 

As far as what does pricing have to do with available options, it does matter to some extent. The whole reason to charge large quantities of money is that you sort of pay a premium for them not cookie-cuttering guitars. 

As an example, if "Brand X" builds guitars that cost $3k, you might expect to pay $6k for a custom simply because you're adding things that don't already exist to the model. Add a string, different neck profiles, different head stocks, different inlays, choose different woods, different types of paint jobs, (swirl, dyed, solid, flake, color shift, etc.) A lot of these add cost to production, but mixing and matching them absolutely 100% of the time means it's no longer paint by numbers. 

The types of features you have available matter. If you basically get to just choose your color, the markup shouldn't be so drastic. You're still buying a $3k guitar and swapping out one color for another. But suddenly, if you offer different woods, figured tops, neck profiles, adding strings, etc, there are way more variables. The quality of the guitar won't be any different than the $3k guitar, but you're paying to have them go out of their way. An example being that it's easy to have, say 2 or 3 cnc machines belt out like 300 of one neck profile than it is to have to say "This guy wants this one, but that guy wants that one... And this other guy wants this one... This fourth guy wants the first guy's profile, but it's on a different scaled neck, or a 7/8/9 string neck."

It becomes "paying for the privilege" if there are basically no options to choose from and you're buying a $3k guitar for $6k with next to zero reason for the upcharge just to say you asked for a blue one.

'Course, I'm not saying that's the case here, but options do matter when it comes to paying huge price hikes. I have no idea what options there are or aren't. I do know that I'd rather not have the tree of life on a custom guitar, so even if I was in the market, this wouldn't be for me anyway. lol


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## spudmunkey (Oct 1, 2019)

StevenC said:


> What has pricing got to do with available options?



The fewer options they offer, the more they can streamline their processes, tooling, inventory and training, and keep costs lower.


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## Albake21 (Oct 1, 2019)

_- unique instruments_
Nice!
_- able to choose woods - they will send pictures of their actual top woods to you, so you can choose a flame/burst/etc top that is to your liking_
Perfect!
_- other options are colors, PUs, Trem_
YES!
_- supposed to be a step up compared to their J-Custom series(more exclusive)_
100% ON BOARD
_- must have the tree of life inlays_
FUCKING DAMMIT Ibanez! You couldn't just let me get the perfect Ibanez, could you???


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## StevenC (Oct 1, 2019)

spudmunkey said:


> The fewer options they offer, the more they can streamline their processes, tooling, inventory and training, and keep costs lower.


If they were concerned with keeping costs down I don't think they'd be offering a halo line.


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## spudmunkey (Oct 1, 2019)

StevenC said:


> If they were concerned with keeping costs down I don't think they'd be offering a halo line.



That's the exact point. The hope is that, while it'll likely be more expensive, most are hoping that it's "proportionally" more expensive for that it *seems* like it is. If you order a burger and ask them to add bacon, one would hope that it's not $11 extra. That's all it is. And it's conjecture, since there's so little information available at this stage. The point being made, I think, is simply, "Cool...we can customize. I hope it's not too expensive compared to off-the-rack."


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## Sogradde (Oct 2, 2019)

There is a bit of a misunderstanding here. The "step up" is supposed to be from an exclusivity point of view, not quality wise. 
There could be a (coincidental) increase in quality though since he mentioned they will be built by Sugi. I guess we all know the generall ballpark of Sugi prices.


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## Jeff (Oct 2, 2019)

AxeHappy said:


> I'm not attempting to be douchey or antagonistic here, but I actually don't understand the reasoning/logic being used here? If they're selling what they are advertising how can one complain about the product not being something it wasn't intended to be?
> 
> If they're advertising that it is a full on custom shop and then it isn't, give them fucking hell, but price seems to be an entirely separate issue? In Canada the top of the line factory stuff is already priced into quality custom electric guitar range.
> 
> ...



The reasoning is that even if this does come to fruition, it's not going to be a custom shop, yet they'll still charge more than J Custom. Therefore, not really worth it. I'll call it a "custom shop" when the pricing and level of customization is on par with Suhr or Kiesel, with similar pricing (probably closer to Suhr than Kiesel, I'm sure).


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## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 2, 2019)

Does Suhr still do proper customs? Most of the ones I’ve seen recently seem to be fairly standard. But... that might just be what is being brought into the U.K. these days.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2019)

Jeff said:


> The reasoning is that even if this does come to fruition, it's not going to be a custom shop, yet they'll still charge more than J Custom. Therefore, not really worth it. I'll call it a "custom shop" when the pricing and level of customization is on par with Suhr or Kiesel, with similar pricing (probably closer to Suhr than Kiesel, I'm sure).



Everyone comes up with these convoluted definitions of what a "custom shop" is. 

Did you choose an attribute of the guitar? Then it's custom in the purest sense. 

Some custom shops don't offer as much customization, but choosing your specs from a limited menu is still customizing.


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## StevenC (Oct 2, 2019)

Jeff said:


> The reasoning is that even if this does come to fruition, it's not going to be a custom shop, yet they'll still charge more than J Custom. Therefore, not really worth it. I'll call it a "custom shop" when the pricing and level of customization is on par with Suhr or Kiesel, with similar pricing (probably closer to Suhr than Kiesel, I'm sure).


Aren't Suhr and Kiesel historically the "semi-customs" anyway?


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2019)

StevenC said:


> Aren't Suhr and Kiesel historically the "semi-customs" anyway?



You can probably count on one hand the number of shops that'll make an entirely bespoke guitar. 

Declaring something "semi-custom" is another pretend thing thought up by marketing to try and artificially differentiate shops.


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## Andromalia (Oct 2, 2019)

spudmunkey said:


> The fewer options they offer, the more they can streamline their processes, tooling, inventory and training, and keep costs lower.



Nowadays pricing has little to do with costs. They're goping to target an audience, and price accordingly for the privilege of exclusivity. Just putting a "limited edition" sticker on a RG would suffice. Some people will pay more so you can't have it.


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## Andromalia (Oct 2, 2019)

Bleh can't edit right after posting now. :/ 



> You can probably count on one hand the number of shops that'll make an entirely bespoke guitar.


If by entirely bespoke you include a non standard or truly custom body form, that's when I'd encourage people to check their local guys.


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## Jeff (Oct 2, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Everyone comes up with these convoluted definitions of what a "custom shop" is.
> 
> Did you choose an attribute of the guitar? Then it's custom in the purest sense.
> 
> Some custom shops don't offer as much customization, but choosing your specs from a limited menu is still customizing.



Oh I totally agree. I'm just saying I highly doubt the Ibanez "custom shop" would come anywhere near a Suhr, Kiesel, Balaguer, etc. i.e. you can have any neck you want, as long as it's a Wizard.


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## spudmunkey (Oct 2, 2019)

There's a gray area, for sure.

If they let you pick different woods. Custom? How about if it's only from their menu of woods? Still custom, or just semi-custom? What if they won't source other woods, but would let you send in woods? But only woods they don't offer, and you don't get to pick your own specific pieces from what they have...but they offer different grades of their own woods to pick from.

What if they they don't offer custom or compound fretboard radius, but they have several options to pick from? What if they don't offer different neck shapes, but offer 3 different neck thicknesses. What if they have 6 different headstocks to pick from, but you won't let you design their own? What if you can send in your own pickups, and they have their own menu of pickups, but they won't source anything outside of their own offering, for you. Is that still "custom"?

Those are all Kiesel's options/caveats. 

The analogy for kiesel I use is a pizza place. You can pick your crust type, how it's cooked, seasonings for the crust, the sauce, the cheese, the veggies, the meat, the size, how it's cut...but you still have to mostly pick from their menu. Maaaybe if you bring in something to put on it, they might add it for you, for a fee.

...but if you want mu-shu pork, your answer is likely "no." Or, even if they have the ingredients to do it, it would still likely be a mu-shu pork pizza.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2019)

Jeff said:


> Oh I totally agree. I'm just saying I highly doubt the Ibanez "custom shop" would come anywhere near a Suhr, Kiesel, Balaguer, etc. i.e. you can have any neck you want, as long as it's a Wizard.



I know for a fact that you are correct. 

I just don't think the level of customization offered means anything but that. 

For instance, I don't really care how many options Etherial has as the guitars are kinda junky.



spudmunkey said:


> There's a gray area, for sure.
> 
> If they let you pick different woods. Custom? How about if it's only from their menu of woods? Still custom, or just semi-custom? What if they won't source other woods, but would let you send in woods? But only woods they don't offer, and you don't get to pick your own specific pieces from what they have...but they offer different grades of their own woods.
> 
> What if they they don't offer custom or compound fretboard radius, but they have several options to pick from. What if they don't offer different neck shapes, but offer 3 different neck thicknesses. What if they have 6 different headstocks to pick from, but you won't let you design their own? What if you can send in your own pickups, and they have their own menu of pickups, but they won't source anything outside of their own offering, for you. Is that still "custom"?



There's no gray area. 

If you choose a spec you've customized it. A place who offers a customized guitar is a custom shop. This is what these words mean. 

Places like Carvin popularized the term "semi-custom" to make it easier for folks to understand that it's not an "anything goes, completely bespoke" shop. We're not a custom shop with limited options, we're a semi-custom shop. _Big difference_.


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## Jeff (Oct 2, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I know for a fact that you are correct.
> 
> I just don't think the level of customization offered means anything but that.
> 
> For instance, I don't really care how many options Etherial has as the guitars are kinda junky.



I guess my overall point in the matter is if I could get an AZ profile neck with a reversed headstock on a baked maple neck, with an RG body in ash, that'd be sweet. 

If it's just nothing more than a Wizard on an RG in the color of my choice, color me unimpressed.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2019)

Jeff said:


> I guess my overall point in the matter is if I could get an AZ profile neck with a reversed headstock on a baked maple neck, with an RG body in ash, that'd be sweet.
> 
> If it's just nothing more than a Wizard on an RG in the color of my choice, color me unimpressed.



Like I said, folks need not get their hopes up of Prestige priced, option filled, non-standard stuff.

It's not happening.

Sugi prices runs and individual guitars very similarly ($$$$), so they're going to see if there's some interest outside of Japan for this kind of thing. These are purely for existing J.Custom fans looking for bragging rights.

The big home market shops have been playing around with this for the last year.


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## spudmunkey (Oct 2, 2019)

Andromalia said:


> There's no gray area.



Not to me, but to people who need to define things. "It's not a super car, it's a 'hyper car'."



Andromalia said:


> Places like Carvin popularized the term "semi-custom" to make it easier for folks to understand that it's not an "anything goes, completely bespoke" shop. We're not a custom shop with limited options, we're a semi-custom shop. _Big difference_.



The part that amuses me is that it's not Carvin/Kiesel who calls themself semi-custom. They just simply say "custom shop" any time they can. it's everyone else who uses it to calm down someone who gets pissed off because they won't make them a 24.75" explorer with a compound radius, Kahler and Duncans.

And something else that amuses me on my old Ibanez, that i bought off-the-rack in a small store in suburban-rural-ish wisconsin, right next to an identical-in-every-way guitar, was the fretboard inlay that said "CUSTOM MADE".


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2019)

spudmunkey said:


> And something else that amuses me on my old Ibanez, that i bought off-the-rack in a small store in suburban-rural-ish wisconsin, right next to an identical-in-every-way guitar, was the fretboard inlay that said "CUSTOM MADE".



Those actually were custom made. Ibanez would ship unfinished bodies and necks to HUSA and they'd finish and assemble them to order. You could choose pickup layout (HH, HSH, or HSS), finish (there was at one time 8 options), and hardware color. 

With somewhat limited options, and given that dealers usually ordered batches of similar spec'd ones, it's pretty easy to find twins.


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## spudmunkey (Oct 2, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Those actually were custom made. Ibanez would ship unfinished bodies and necks to HUSA and they'd finish and assemble them to order. You could choose pickup layout (HH, HSH, or HSS), finish (there was at one time 8 options), and hardware color.
> 
> With somewhat limited options, and given that dealers usually ordered batches of similar spec'd ones, it's pretty easy to find twins.



I am one of today's lucky 10,000.


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## Albake21 (Oct 2, 2019)

I really don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. I also feel like the term "custom shop" has changed over the years. No matter what, any shop that allows you to choose options is a custom shop. Personally in my eyes though, you can get a bit more granular with it. Personally, if you are limited to "options" and can't do anything that was chosen from yourself, that's a semi custom shop in my eyes. A true full custom shop to me is a shop that allows full custom options.

I like to look at it this way. When I go to a restaurant, I get a menu of items to choose from. It's my choice and I even get to change it a bit by removing or adding ingredients. But not matter what, it's still whatever is on that restaurants menu. Now if I'm able to sit down and pick what ever I want regardless of a menu (as long as the chef is capable of cooking it) then that's the same as a full custom shop.

At the end of the day, there is no right answer and every one of these shops is still technically a custom shop. But if you're going to tell me that Kiesel is a full custom shop, I just can't agree with you on that no matter what.


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## cardinal (Oct 2, 2019)

These will be Sugi built? Big spender stuff. I've never played one of those, but they sure seem nice.

For what it's worth, I had two bespoke guitars built earlier this year, though both were pretty "normal" except for having 8 strings. They cost a good bit, took a long time, and were a bit of adventures trying to nail down specs and keep it on track.

Offering customizable guitars (rather than full custom) probably captures the vast majority of buyers and saves builders a lot of headache. I'd bet that shops that offer bespoke services do it because they love it, not because they're about making a lot of money from it. It's probably not the most efficient business model, and why a large company like Ibanez isn't going there.


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## Jeff (Oct 2, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Like I said, folks need not get their hopes up of Prestige priced, option filled, non-standard stuff.
> 
> It's not happening.
> 
> ...



I just wish Ibanez would license their shapes to Warmoth. Problem solved.


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## Seabeast2000 (Oct 2, 2019)

I was going to comment on the word "custom" but instead I'm doing to play my Prestige.


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## Andromalia (Oct 2, 2019)

A RG body costs nothing. For that matter, a used Prestige costs not much. I have always found the high end Ibanez not worth their price but that's personal opinion. I'd buy an ESP Original any day versus a 6K Ibanez Sugi build.


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## diagrammatiks (Oct 2, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Like I said, folks need not get their hopes up of Prestige priced, option filled, non-standard stuff.
> 
> It's not happening.
> 
> ...



eh.....

mid they want to charge me 10 grand for a multiscale hsh s with my pick of woods that’s fine...it can hang up with the ps prs hollow body multiscale I’ll buy someday. 
You want to sell me a 5k s and tell me it’s better and cooler then my s’s. Ehhh. The prestige s’s are already perfect. 

I’m trying hard to not buy three right now. 



Albake21 said:


> I really don't think there is a right or wrong answer here. I also feel like the term "custom shop" has changed over the years. No matter what, any shop that allows you to choose options is a custom shop. Personally in my eyes though, you can get a bit more granular with it. Personally, if you are limited to "options" and can't do anything that was chosen from yourself, that's a semi custom shop in my eyes. A true full custom shop to me is a shop that allows full custom options.
> 
> I like to look at it this way. When I go to a restaurant, I get a menu of items to choose from. It's my choice and I even get to change it a bit by removing or adding ingredients. But not matter what, it's still whatever is on that restaurants menu. Now if I'm able to sit down and pick what ever I want regardless of a menu (as long as the chef is capable of cooking it) then that's the same as a full custom shop.
> 
> At the end of the day, there is no right answer and every one of these shops is still technically a custom shop. But if you're going to tell me that Kiesel is a full custom shop, I just can't agree with you on that no matter what.



you aren’t wrong. But the type of thing you are talking about would more likely be called bespoke 

If you don’t call suhr or Anderson or Kiesel custom rather then production what would you call them?


----------



## spudmunkey (Oct 3, 2019)

"Tailored", maybe, if you need another word besides "custom"?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 3, 2019)

It just seems silly to break it down so far when, like I said, there are maybe a dozen shops in the whole world that are "anything goes" level of customization. At least that aren't one guy in his garage that doesn't advertise and isn't a "real" business.


----------



## c7spheres (Oct 3, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It just seems silly to break it down so far when, like I said, there are maybe a dozen shops in the whole world that are "anything goes" level of customization. At least that aren't one guy in his garage that doesn't advertise and isn't a "real" business.


 Ed Roman Guitars was one of those shops. He really did know how to source experts in thier fields from luthiers to inlay artists, graphics people etc.. I know a lot of people had issues with him, but he really did have top luthiers that could do, and did, anything. They did a lot of ghost builds for many pros and top companys you wouldn't believe if I told you. They built my guitar and I still love it. It's my main axe since 1999 when I got it done. He's been dead for some time now, but I still remember him and some of the crazy stuff we talked about over the years. I miss calling him up and giving him a hard time. He was such an asshole : )


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Oct 3, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It just seems silly to break it down so far when, like I said, there are maybe a dozen shops in the whole world that are "anything goes" level of customization. At least that aren't one guy in his garage that doesn't advertise and isn't a "real" business.



Out of curiosity what companies run an actual custom shop? I know Schecter Mastworks is handmade so anything goes. The highest Ibanez endorsers can get their own shapes made, at least Tosin did.


----------



## Avedas (Oct 3, 2019)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Out of curiosity what companies run an actual custom shop? I know Schecter Mastworks is handmade so anything goes. The highest Ibanez endorsers can get their own shapes made, at least Tosin did.


ESP makes all kind of wacky shit if you're part of a famous enough J-rock/metal group in the 90s.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 3, 2019)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Out of curiosity what companies run an actual custom shop? I know Schecter Mastworks is handmade so anything goes. The highest Ibanez endorsers can get their own shapes made, at least Tosin did.



Alembic will make anything, including custom bodies, electronics from the ground up (pickups and preamps), any number of strings or scales. They'll mill custom hardware too if needed. Not to mention their inlay work and finish work is great.

Bolin will do anything as well. They don't make their own electronics or hardware, but that's pretty much the only real limits.

Conklin is up there with Alembic. They can custom make anything. 

ESP has incredibly few limits as long as you order within Japan. I don't think they'll turn something down as long as they know they probably won't get sued for it. 

Toone offers complete bespoke building. He also has tons of capabilities and will outsource anything he can't do. 

Waghorn builds just about anything. He has his own body shapes, but they pretty much cover anything and I think he'll still do custom ones depending on how busy they are. 

Those are just a few off the top of my head.


----------



## Albake21 (Oct 3, 2019)

diagrammatiks said:


> eh.....
> 
> mid they want to charge me 10 grand for a multiscale hsh s with my pick of woods that’s fine...it can hang up with the ps prs hollow body multiscale I’ll buy someday.
> You want to sell me a 5k s and tell me it’s better and cooler then my s’s. Ehhh. The prestige s’s are already perfect.
> ...


But I did call them custom, just not full custom in my eyes. I like to call them semi-custom shops.


----------



## Kaura (Oct 3, 2019)

Gotta agree with bunch of guys here and say that the mandatory ToL fucking ruins this. I just want a simple, high quality RG with nice pickups and in Nickel Gray finish but no.


----------



## Nick (Oct 3, 2019)

Andromalia said:


> A RG body costs nothing. For that matter, a used Prestige costs not much. I have always found the high end Ibanez not worth their price but that's personal opinion. I'd buy an ESP Original any day versus a 6K Ibanez Sugi build.



Despite the fact I have just bought a 2027xl brand new I have to agree with this. My last prestige 7 (RG1527) I bought in 2006 and I would say it was of similar build quality as the 2027xl maybe without some of the aesthetics of the 2027 which make it nicer to look at but in terms of feel very similar. I bought the 1527 brand new for £550 which fair enough, I got a deal on because my local store know me and I am deffinetly viewed as a cash cow there but thats almost 1/3rd of the price. 

Ibanez used to be a brand that gave you a great playing guitar for a reasonable price. Their guitars are still great to play but the prices just keep going up and they are going to soon price themselves out of the market getting into similar brackets as mayones etc.


----------



## Sogradde (Oct 3, 2019)

Kaura said:


> Gotta agree with bunch of guys here and say that the mandatory ToL fucking ruins this. I just want a simple, high quality RG with nice pickups and in Nickel Gray finish but no.



Well if I can have a black Tree of Life on an ebony board or a mother of pearl one on a maple board, I don't mind so much. But if it HAS to be high visibility, I'm out.
I do somewhat understand their point though. It's supposed to be a customized j.custom and those come in most cases with the respective inlay.


----------



## Kaura (Oct 3, 2019)

Sogradde said:


> Well if I can have a black Tree of Life on an ebony board or a mother of pearl one on a maple board, I don't mind so much. But if it HAS to be high visibility, I'm out.
> I do somewhat understand their point though. It's supposed to be a customized j.custom and those come in most cases with the respective inlay.



Yeah, since the reason for the ToL is most likely the fact they're just using j.custom necks then I'm pretty sure all the inlays will be done with mother of pearl.


----------



## Albake21 (Oct 3, 2019)

Sogradde said:


> Well if I can have a black Tree of Life on an ebony board or a mother of pearl one on a maple board, I don't mind so much. But if it HAS to be high visibility, I'm out.
> I do somewhat understand their point though. It's supposed to be a customized j.custom and those come in most cases with the respective inlay.


Huh... a black ToL inlay on a black ebony board honestly sounds awesome. Almost like a stealth ToL.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 3, 2019)

Nick said:


> Despite the fact I have just bought a 2027xl brand new I have to agree with this. My last prestige 7 (RG1527) I bought in 2006 and I would say it was of similar build quality as the 2027xl maybe without some of the aesthetics of the 2027 which make it nicer to look at but in terms of feel very similar. I bought the 1527 brand new for £550 which fair enough, I got a deal on because my local store know me and I am deffinetly viewed as a cash cow there but thats almost 1/3rd of the price.
> 
> Ibanez used to be a brand that gave you a great playing guitar for a reasonable price. Their guitars are still great to play but the prices just keep going up and they are going to soon price themselves out of the market getting into similar brackets as mayones etc.



Over 13 years of inflation and a rising Yen will do that. 

Guitars don't exist in a bubble. I can't think of a single model or brand that has gotten cheaper over the years that hasn't moved production to Indonesia or China, and even then it's rare to see the actual price drop vs. stay the same.


----------



## Nick (Oct 3, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Over 13 years of inflation and a rising Yen will do that.
> 
> Guitars don't exist in a bubble. I can't think of a single model or brand that has gotten cheaper over the years that hasn't moved production to Indonesia or China, and even then it's rare to see the actual price drop vs. stay the same.



Yeah dont get me wrong I dont expect prices to remain static especially over longer than a decade but in my example above based on UK prices (and I get there is FX to consider here as well) but 300% vs original value in 13 years is pretty out there for anything.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 3, 2019)

Nick said:


> Yeah dont get me wrong I dont expect prices to remain static especially over longer than a decade but in my example above based on UK prices (and I get there is FX to consider here as well) but 300% vs original value in 13 years is pretty out there for anything.



Inflation alone is 3% year over year on average, and the Yen is almost twice as valuable vs. the Pound between 2006 and now. 

So you're looking at almost a 40% increase in just inflation, and then you can almost double that in exchange.


----------



## c7spheres (Oct 3, 2019)

Kaura said:


> Yeah, since the reason for the ToL is most likely the fact they're just using j.custom necks then I'm pretty sure all the inlays will be done with mother of pearl.



It kinda seems like they have a bunch of J-customs that didn't sell (probably because not everytone wants this inlay and also doens't want to pay that much money) and they are making this a way to reuse those parts and recoupe losses at the same time. it makes sense. I don't think I'll ever understand Ibanez or a lot of these companys with their, imo, bad decisions like ESP with that block letter 12th fret inlay on everything, or Solar or Chapman with theirs. All deal breakers. It's a nice idea, but should always be an option to not have it. By putting a small inventory aside on a wait list for those who don't want the inlay at least then you'd get the sale of the guitar. For me personally though it's a deal breaker. I don't want the inlay or crazy things. 
- Also, Ibanez especially, what's with all the crazy paint jobs all the time? At least offer basic's still along side the crazy stuff. For ex, I would buy the new rg752's if they didn't only have bright yellow, sparkles, side body bindings etc, dots on the fret board etc. I'm not an 8 year old girl or a 12 year old metalhead kid. I'm a plain, old, boring guy! Guess I answered my own question : )


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 3, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> It kinda seems like they have a bunch of J-customs that didn't sell (probably because not everytone wants this inlay and also doens't want to pay that much money) and they are making this a way to reuse those parts and recoupe losses at the same time. it makes sense. I don't think I'll ever understand Ibanez or a lot of these companys with their, imo, bad decisions like ESP with that block letter 12th fret inlay on everything, or Solar or Chapman with theirs. All deal breakers. It's a nice idea, but should always be an option to not have it. By putting a small inventory aside on a wait list for those who don't want the inlay at least then you'd get the sale of the guitar. For me personally though it's a deal breaker. I don't want the inlay or crazy things.
> - Also, Ibanez especially, what's with all the crazy paint jobs all the time? At least offer basic's still along side the crazy stuff. For ex, I would buy the new rg752's if they didn't only have bright yellow, sparkles, side body bindings etc, dots on the fret board etc. I'm not an 8 year old girl or a 12 year old metalhead kid. I'm a plain, old, boring guy! Guess I answered my own question : )



The Sugi J.Customs pretty much sold as they were built, which is why they're doing this. They are not cannibalizing used J.Custom necks.


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## Splenetic (Oct 3, 2019)

"must have the tree of life inlays" 


Dumb. Completely kills of any passing interest for me.


----------



## Vyn (Oct 3, 2019)

Nick said:


> Despite the fact I have just bought a 2027xl brand new I have to agree with this. My last prestige 7 (RG1527) I bought in 2006 and I would say it was of similar build quality as the 2027xl maybe without some of the aesthetics of the 2027 which make it nicer to look at but in terms of feel very similar. I bought the 1527 brand new for £550 which fair enough, I got a deal on because my local store know me and I am deffinetly viewed as a cash cow there but thats almost 1/3rd of the price.
> 
> Ibanez used to be a brand that gave you a great playing guitar for a reasonable price. Their guitars are still great to play but the prices just keep going up and they are going to soon price themselves out of the market getting into similar brackets as mayones etc.



I don't know what it's like in the states however over here using the 2027XL as an example, there's nothing else with that feature set and quality even remotely at the street price of a 2027XL. Even new, a barebones Prestige is still awesome value.


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## Nick (Oct 3, 2019)

Vyn said:


> I don't know what it's like in the states however over here using the 2027XL as an example, there's nothing else with that feature set and quality even remotely at the street price of a 2027XL. Even new, a barebones Prestige is still awesome value.



Me neither mate I'm from Scotland 

Yeah I guess I am comparing it to other guitars I own or have owned. Inflation and brexit have really fucked things here, I have a suhr modern I didnt psy much more for than the 2027.


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## Avedas (Oct 4, 2019)

I have a feeling they're going to hit their output limit with orders with just people who actually _do_ like the tree of life.

I've always been pretty indifferent about it but the ToL on my j.custom looks realllly good. It's got a billion colors in it and the rest of the guitar is black so it balances nicely.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 4, 2019)

Avedas said:


> I have a feeling they're going to hit their output limit with orders with just people who actually _do_ like the tree of life.



Truthfully, I'm not into the ToL either, or the Vine, but if it wasn't popular with folks who actually buy JCs on the regular I don't think we'd see so many dealer runs with it. 

As for output, you're probably right. Sugi is by no means a large operation.


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## jco5055 (Oct 4, 2019)

I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't hate the ToL inlay lol. I don't LOVE it, but I'd have no complaints with being forced to order it.


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## ThePIGI King (Oct 4, 2019)

jco5055 said:


> I feel like I'm the only person who doesn't hate the ToL inlay lol. I don't LOVE it, but I'd have no complaints with being forced to order it.


I love it. Absolutely love the way it looks. Same with the vine. Every time I'm about to pull the trigger in a JC, my car has issues or whatnot, or else I'd regularly post pics of the tree so you can all bask in its glory.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 4, 2019)

ThePIGI King said:


> I love it. Absolutely love the way it looks. Same with the vine. Every time I'm about to pull the trigger in a JC, my car has issues or whatnot, or else I'd regularly post pics of the tree so you can all bask in its glory.



Same, save for the vine. Really not a fan.
After my EQ gets finished up next year a J.Custom is next on my list. I just wish they made a fixed-bridge 6 with a Tight-End bridge. They have a 7, but AFAIK they've never made one in a 6. Oh well. Semi-custom shop, you say? Question mark? S-series maybe? 

Christ this company has such a death grip on my wallet.


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## spudmunkey (Oct 4, 2019)

For me, the tree of life inlay started to lose it's luster with inlay stickers.

Like...just google "tree of life inlay", and the top 5 results are stickers.

And what really took them down a peg what when I bought a $4 set and put them on my $200 nylon string guitar.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Oct 4, 2019)

spudmunkey said:


> For me, the tree of life inlay started to lose it's luster with inlay stickers.
> 
> Like...just google "tree of life inlay", and the top 5 results are stickers.
> 
> ...



Would a monkey grip be appropriate or am I mixing model lines? If so, please?


----------



## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 4, 2019)

spudmunkey said:


> For me, the tree of life inlay started to lose it's luster with inlay stickers.
> 
> Like...just google "tree of life inlay", and the top 5 results are stickers.
> 
> And what really took them down a peg what when I bought a $4 set and put them on my $200 nylon string guitar.



Kind of agree- it's a shame the stickers always come out so poorly too. They're always too thick and blocky looking.
I got a nicer set for my RGA7 but even with more high-dollar decals they still look super fake


----------



## Kaura (Oct 4, 2019)

I think the ToL really compliments the guitars with nice figured tops like J.customs in most cases have but all I want is a solid color finish with a plain fretboard.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 4, 2019)

If Ibanez are offering a ‘semi’ custom shop the only question I need answering is “swirls?”.


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## Albake21 (Oct 4, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> If Ibanez are offering a ‘semi’ custom shop the only question I need answering is “swirls?”.


If you want a swirl you're honestly better off just buying a cheap used prestige and having someone swirl it for you. Way cheaper and maybe even better depending on who's doing it.


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## sleewell (Oct 4, 2019)

"has to have the tree of life inlays"


----------



## oracles (Oct 4, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> If Ibanez are offering a ‘semi’ custom shop the only question I need answering is “swirls?”.



Doubtful. There's so few guys doing swirls, and even fewer doing good swirls, I can't imagine it being cost effective for Ibanez to offer them, as much as I love swirls.


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## spudmunkey (Oct 4, 2019)

Swirls + TOL seems a bit like wearing zebra and leopard print clothing together.

Or taking a Ferrari and adding a landau roof.

In short, it seems like...a lot.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 4, 2019)

Albake21 said:


> If you want a swirl you're honestly better off just buying a cheap used prestige and having someone swirl it for you. Way cheaper and maybe even better depending on who's doing it.



I'm just saying that if Ibanez want my hard earned cash, the're going to have to do more than flame maple tops with a typical stain job. I don't mind the ToL (but I prefer the vine on the JEM) but when it comes to finish, I need something more than Diet-PRS.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 4, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> If Ibanez are offering a ‘semi’ custom shop the only question I need answering is “swirls?”.



Not without Steve Vai's blessing. 

Even then, with Herc gone (RIP) and Thorn exclusive to Fender, not to mention Darren J. not being on speaking terms with Hoshino, the likelihood is pretty much nil.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 5, 2019)

Did the limited edition black and White RGs swirled in Japan have anything to do with Steve?

They seemed far removed from the previous Vai series swirls to me and if memory serves were done by the same team that did the original MKRs.

As I said though, I’m not really insistent on swirls, but I Do want something more than a few PRS-lite see through finishes on maple.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 5, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> Did the limited edition black and White RGs swirled in Japan have anything to do with Steve?
> 
> They seemed far removed from the previous Vai series swirls to me and if memory serves were done by the same team that did the original MKRs.
> 
> As I said though, I’m not really insistent on swirls, but I Do want something more than a few PRS-lite see through finishes on maple.



He gave his blessing for the RG20051, yes, as it was to be a limited edition. At least that's what I was told awhile back.

The MKR and supposedly the later RG20051 were done by a small shop/art house in Japan that I don't believe is around anymore.

Fun fact: the original MKR swirls were so bad that it almost soured Ibanez and Vai's relationship.

They very well could offer swirls, but I don't think it's likely, for a number of reasons.


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 5, 2019)

I knew Steve was not happy with the MKRs and wanted the finishes to be more like the prototype, but had no idea that it’s was a “big no-no” as far as the overall relationship was concerned.

I guess that’s the reason he has to give his blessing on ALL swirls these days.


----------



## mrpanoff (Oct 7, 2019)

> - must have the tree of life inlays





binz said:


> Why tree of life o lay though? Sounds super odd to me.





c7spheres said:


> I was so stoked and then saw must have TOL inlay. Jesus Ibanez, get a clue.



Now this is where it gets truly disturbing.

They've been stamping the clandestine sigil religiously all over the fretboards, chopping out the precious Rosewood ruthlessly, for a decade and a half now. And now their sheer amount of obduracy should finally lead us onto something.

It may not be all that innocuous if you look at it as a Tree Of Life, rather than some random tacky Vine an autistic designer dude came up with while high on shite.

My hypothesis is that Ibanez top management deeply belongs to a totalitarian pseudo-cabbalistic religious sect.

This is not a rare occasion in the top management world. For example, we have a banking structure in Russia (Uralsib) that had been totally transformed into a sect by the former chairman, skirting bankruptcy and having been resold to another tycoon who shortly ended up in coma and then dead after a skiing accident. These people are sick, act sick, and all kinds of sick events ensue.

The Tree Of Life is widely used as a cabbalistic concept, both in Orthodox Judaism and by many a pseudo-cabbalistic cult. If you look closely, there are 22 large leaves on the fretboard, corresponding to the 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet and to the 22 Ways Of The Tree Of Life in Kabbalah. This concept deeply belongs within Orthodox Judaism, and becomes totally sick, corrupt and even dangerous when used randomly by self-proclaimed religious cults.

I've been contemplating some Ishibashi limited models recently as a waning opportunity to snatch some nice pieces of Rosewood, yet once this truth has dawned on me I don't want any of this twisted sick sick sick sick thing anywhere near my guitars.

Cheers.


----------



## spudmunkey (Oct 7, 2019)

Personally, I tend to not put too much weight behind subliminal, or hidden messages like that. Look close enough, and any number can have some significance to a religious group, or similar. 21 could represent the day Archangel Michael was sent from God to help Daniel. 24 is the number of books in the Tanakh. Adam and Eve had 23 daughters, and Jezebel is mentioned 23 times in The Bible.


----------



## c7spheres (Oct 7, 2019)

mrpanoff said:


> ..............
> 
> My hypothesis is that Ibanez top management deeply belongs to a totalitarian pseudo-cabbalistic religious sect.
> 
> ...



I don't know about Ibanez being like this, though I don't doubt that it goes on and many art desgins have hidden meanings etc inside them, but either way, I don't really care, and I like the TOL inlay, I just don't want it on my own guitar and hope they start offering blank black ebony fretboards at some point on any of thier Japanese prestige RG 7 string guitars. There's the rgd7ucs, which I really like, but I have trouble with the longer scale lengths. I'd really rather go with a 25.5 scale. I'm not to worried though. I've moved on from hoping Ibanez would do somthing I want a long time ago, I just keep hoping the do a model I want to buy someday. It wouls just save a lot of time and energy an money for me.


----------



## mrpanoff (Oct 7, 2019)

Yet it plausibly explains their utter perseverance in churning these out.


----------



## mrpanoff (Oct 7, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> It wouls just save a lot of time and energy an money for me.



Sure it does.

The Uppercut series has been sadly dicontinued, by the way.


----------



## c7spheres (Oct 7, 2019)

mrpanoff said:


> Sure it does.
> 
> The Uppercut series has been sadly dicontinued, by the way.


 Dang. This is another thing all these companys do to. They keep replacing models and discontinuing them before I can decide if I want them or can even save for up for them. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Vyn (Oct 7, 2019)

mrpanoff said:


> Sure it does.
> 
> The Uppercut series has been sadly dicontinued, by the way.



Kinda glad that series is gone. Who wants to pay a $200-$300USD surcharge for boutique niche pickups that are going to get ripped out anyway.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 7, 2019)

Vyn said:


> Kinda glad that series is gone. Who wants to pay a $200-$300USD surcharge for boutique niche pickups that are going to get ripped out anyway.



I wouldn't be surprised if a not-so-insignificant amount were purchased for the blank black ebony board and stainless steel frets. 

They're being replaced by the 5k series. 

I think it was a miss to do an ARZ model, and keep the finishes so drab. 

Ibanez seems to just half-bake the newer series. There's always a couple things that need a tweak. Unfortunately, they're just too conservative to improve them before cutting them.


----------



## Vyn (Oct 7, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if a not-so-insignificant amount were purchased for the blank black ebony board and stainless steel frets.
> 
> They're being replaced by the 5k series.
> 
> ...



I don't understand why they didn't just shove Fusion Edges in them or PAFs. They would have sold enough to justify their existence - they would have been high end, bare bones with blank ebony boards and SS frets, ready for owners to do whatever.

The 5000 series I think is a step too far and not far enough at the same time - they are trying to do some 'crazy' finishes and feature sets yet they've come off as a standard series prestige just with a ton of makeup to the current fashions/trends and a coil tap switch slapped on.


----------



## Vyn (Oct 7, 2019)

Double post however I should add that if the rest of the world gets the 3000 series then the 5000 series makes more sense, although NFI what they'll do to the standard Prestige line.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 7, 2019)

Vyn said:


> I don't understand why they didn't just shove Fusion Edges in them or PAFs. They would have sold enough to justify their existence - they would have been high end, bare bones with blank ebony boards and SS frets, ready for owners to do whatever.
> 
> The 5000 series I think is a step too far and not far enough at the same time - they are trying to do some 'crazy' finishes and feature sets yet they've come off as a standard series prestige just with a ton of makeup to the current fashions/trends and a coil tap switch slapped on.



Supposedly BKP recommended the Aftermaths.


----------



## c7spheres (Oct 7, 2019)

I know I keep beating this dead horse, but I stll just wish you could order the parts youwant from them. I'd rather they make a parts wherehouse manufacturer and just let people order parts, take it to a luthier and make what they want. I'd call them up and be like "yeh, I'll take a couple rg7cst necks, an rga body made from whatever and etc. and call it a day. Um, no thanks I'll paint it myself and do the pickups routes myself thanks." I'd rather pay my local luthier to do my work for me (a retired Fender foreman). I already got other stuff in the works and even have my own custom bodys a necks ready to go , but I'm still sourcing some parts still. Which is hard for the project I'm doing. It's been 9 years in the making so far.


----------



## c7spheres (Oct 7, 2019)

Vyn said:


> Double post however I should add that if the rest of the world gets the 3000 series then the 5000 series makes more sense, although NFI what they'll do to the standard Prestige line.


 Hopefully something not made for an 8 year old girl.


----------



## mrpanoff (Oct 7, 2019)

Vyn said:


> Kinda glad that series is gone. Who wants to pay a $200-$300USD surcharge for boutique niche pickups that are going to get ripped out anyway.



Pickups aside, they were almost J-custom level Prestige guitars.


----------



## mrpanoff (Oct 7, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> ARZ model



That ARZ was dope, I had a chance to try one and also the RG.

There also was an S model and a Japanese RGA, both in colors other than black.


----------



## Merrekof (Oct 8, 2019)

spudmunkey said:


> Swirls + TOL seems a bit like wearing zebra and leopard print clothing together.
> 
> Or taking a Ferrari and adding a landau roof.
> 
> In short, it seems like...a lot.


..have you ever seen visual kei guitarists?


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 8, 2019)

Vyn said:


> The 5000 series I think is a step too far and not far enough at the same time - they are trying to do some 'crazy' finishes and feature sets yet they've come off as a standard series prestige just with a ton of makeup to the current fashions/trends and a coil tap switch slapped on.



Are you thinking the Axion Label monstrosities? 

The 5k just have trans finishes (blue, green, or black) and then some pretty standard features for guitars in this part of the market (stainless frets, ebony boards, name brand pickups, etc.). 



Vyn said:


> Double post however I should add that if the rest of the world gets the 3000 series then the 5000 series makes more sense, although NFI what they'll do to the standard Prestige line.



Pretty sure the Genesis line is taking the place of the old 1000 series Prestige (simple finishes, stock pickups, best hardware), the 3k are going take the place of the old 2000 series (1000 but with fancier looks and sometimes name brand pickups), and the 5k are taking the place of the 3000/4000 models (further upgrades). 



mrpanoff said:


> Pickups aside, they were almost J-custom level Prestige guitars.



Eh, they were all solid, yet nothing special from the several I played. Definitely not JC level, which was apparent on the fretwork. 

Good for Prestige, mostly, but nothing above that.



mrpanoff said:


> That ARZ was dope, I had a chance to try one and also the RG.
> 
> There also was an S model and a Japanese RGA, both in colors other than black.



I liked the options (I really like solid black and dig the FR and ARZ), but from a sales perspective the ARZ and Saber are very low volume as is. It was just a bad choice. 

If they wanted to move guitars they should have improved the RG offerings.


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## Andromalia (Oct 8, 2019)

mrpanoff said:


> Now this is where it gets truly disturbing.



Ok, we get it, you want to smoke them instead.


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## mrpanoff (Oct 15, 2019)

They're also doing this top resin thing for the looks, wouldn't resin immolate the sound?

https://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/12-313960400-9305
Body Top Materials : Selected Hawaiian Koa w/resin, 4mm

https://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/03-313850600-8302
Selected Buckeye Burl/Resin(4mm) top Swamp Ash body


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## spudmunkey (Oct 15, 2019)

mrpanoff said:


> They're also doing this top resin thing for the looks, wouldn't resin immolate the sound?
> 
> https://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/12-313960400-9305
> Body Top Materials : Selected Hawaiian Koa w/resin, 4mm
> ...



In both cases, the top is only 4mm (barely over 1/8"). It's tonal impact would be minimal, anyway...likely not much difference from top to top, even when just comparing it to the act of gluing any top on it in the first place, vs a one or two-piece body.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 15, 2019)

The resin actually sounds better than the wood, which is why the JS Crystal Planet is widely regarded as the best sounding Ibanez ever!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 15, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> The resin actually sounds better than the wood, which is why the JS Crystal Planet is widely regarded as the best sounding Ibanez ever!



Interesting, always heard acrylic sounded really meh. Like it's allllll mids.


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## Vyn (Oct 15, 2019)

mrpanoff said:


> They're also doing this top resin thing for the looks, wouldn't resin immolate the sound?
> 
> https://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/12-313960400-9305
> Body Top Materials : Selected Hawaiian Koa w/resin, 4mm
> ...



Not necessarily. It's a solid with it's own frequency properties. Might sound different. People get really scared of non-wood materials for some reason and at the same time forget that it's possible to have a guitar made out of a piece of wood that's completely dead sounding.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 15, 2019)

I actually forgot the winking emoji thing there for sarcasm, but years ago on jemsite these were proclaimed as being amazing sounding guitars. I always preferred the 10th anniversary chrome one which I think is a sort of resin/wood chip sort of thing, to my ears that one does sound amazing.

Mrpanoff has a bit of a reputation over on that site as a staunch opponent of the vine on the j customs but I guess it’s a religious thing with him maybe or he’s a conspiracy theory guy maybe?

I figured Ibanez wants an inlay that’s as identifiable to their brand as the birds are to PRS and mrpanoff thinks it’s a hokey religion ancient weapon kinda vibe...


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## mrpanoff (Oct 15, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I figured Ibanez wants an inlay that’s as identifiable to their brand as the birds are to PRS



So what they're actually in for is to over-tacky-fy PRS in the inlay tackiness department. Epoxy Resin is then introduced to the body to add up even more to the overall tackiness!


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 15, 2019)

mrpanoff said:


> So what they're actually in for is to over-tacky-fy PRS in the inlay tackiness department. Epoxy Resin is then introduced to the body to add up even more to the overall tackiness!



People who spend five figures on guitars like tacky, so they'll make tacky guitars.


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## mrpanoff (Oct 15, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> People who spend five figures on guitars like tacky, so they'll make tacky guitars.



These who spend five figures are in some Occult Tree Of Life Religious Sect anyway, so it's come full circle.


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## c7spheres (Oct 15, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> People who spend five figures on guitars like tacky, so they'll make tacky guitars.


 Why is this? It does seem true that people spending big money on stuff like cars, houses, etc seem to have really bad taste.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 15, 2019)

c7spheres said:


> Why is this? It does seem true that people spending big money on stuff like cars, houses, etc seem to have really bad taste.



Can't buy good taste. 

But it probably has something to do with being able to purchase something unique and special. 

Right now, resin filled burls are popular. In another year or two, something else will be in fashion.


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## bzhang9 (Oct 15, 2019)

mrpanoff said:


> So what they're actually in for is to over-tacky-fy PRS in the inlay tackiness department. Epoxy Resin is then introduced to the body to add up even more to the overall tackiness!



TOL inlay is the most exquisite non custom inlay on the market, not for everyone but it's pretty damn impressive


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## mrpanoff (Oct 15, 2019)

bzhang9 said:


> TOL inlay is the most exquisite non custom inlay on the market, not for everyone but it's pretty damn impressive



Ok ok now you better tell us what is this sect you are in?


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## trickae (Oct 15, 2019)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I've thought for years that Ibanez needs some kind of modular semi-custom shop, since every model they put is met with tons of "if only X were Y" complaints;




I was in the same boat in 2012. I played Ibanez for 24 years and wanted one guitar that incorporated all my favourite features. I was speaking to their ishibashi factory requesting a custom order, was told it could be done with some limitations and needed a minimum order of 5. Where could I convince 5 other guitarists to join in on a limited run custom that I’d designed? 

Instead I took my designs to a local luthier that made more strat and prs style customs and had him make me a superstrat similar to Chris Brodericks LAC’s, 1997 universe wizard 1 profile neck, j-custom neck joint, RGD and RGA body bevels, alder body and one of the few wenge & walnut necks on a baritone 27’ scale. Took me a year to refine the designs before it got made. I have a NGD for it if anyone’s interested. 

These days I’m gassing hard over headless guitars.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 16, 2019)

mrpanoff said:


> So what they're actually in for is to over-tacky-fy PRS in the inlay tackiness department. Epoxy Resin is then introduced to the body to add up even more to the overall tackiness!



What they're in for is making money. They have someone whose job it is to work out what's going to sell. That guy says exotic wood/blue resin topped, vine inlaid superstrats are where the money is this season. The fact that Ibanez has been making J-Customs in "flavour of the month" for 20 years says that the guy with the resin tops and vine inlay idea is probably right...


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## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 16, 2019)

bzhang9 said:


> TOL inlay is the most exquisite non custom inlay on the market, not for everyone but it's pretty damn impressive





mrpanoff said:


> Ok ok now you better tell us what is this sect you are in?



It's the "My guitar is cooler than yours" sect...


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## mrpanoff (Oct 22, 2019)

So is it Sugi-only and not Fujigen?


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## Webmaestro (Oct 22, 2019)

trickae said:


> Instead I took my designs to a local luthier that made more strat and prs style customs and had him make me a superstrat similar to Chris Brodericks LAC’s, 1997 universe wizard 1 profile neck, j-custom neck joint, RGD and RGA body bevels, alder body and one of the few wenge & walnut necks on a baritone 27’ scale. Took me a year to refine the designs before it got made. I have a NGD for it if anyone’s interested.



I'd love to see it! I went and checked out your NGD thread, but all the images are broken.


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## mrpanoff (Oct 29, 2019)

So is it restricted to Sugi?


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## mrpanoff (Nov 1, 2019)

We need more tramp stamps and furniture woods at $7000 price tag:

https://www.ibanez.com/jp/news/detail/20190919124755.html
https://www.ibanez.com/jp/news/detail/20190911164621.html
https://www.ibanez.com/jp/news/detail/20190911142402.html



bmth4111 said:


> And the vine inlay on "custom" ibanezes is just disgusting. It's like a tattoo artist forcing you to get a tramp stamp.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Nov 1, 2019)

100% would buy number 3 if not for the unnecessary coil tap switch and incorrect wiring.


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## IbanezDaemon (Nov 1, 2019)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> 100% would buy number 3 if not for the unnecessary coil tap switch and incorrect wiring.



It's very like the old 2006 RG8620S...that was H/H though.


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## mrpanoff (Dec 5, 2019)

up


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## Webmaestro (Dec 21, 2019)

Hopefully they have a couple of these at NAMM in January. I'm going this year, so I'd love to see one in person.


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## mrpanoff (Jan 1, 2020)

Any official statement this far?

Is there an option to paint the unavoidable ToL over so that it can not be seen?


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## exo (Jan 1, 2020)

My basic take on this the whole time is that it’s some sort of pipe-dream akin to wrestling dirt sheet writer thinking they have successfully booked the WrestleMania card, 6 months in advance.....


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## mrpanoff (Jan 15, 2020)

Any official annoncement thus far?


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## Webmaestro (Feb 12, 2020)

mrpanoff said:


> Any official annoncement thus far?



Nothing that I'm aware of... and I thought for sure there'd be SOME kind of info at NAMM. But... nothing.

So, I'm going to assume (for now) that this isn't happening. Not anytime soon.

If someone knows differently, let me know. Better yet, tell me how/where/who I can call to start speccing one of these.


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## Lorcan Ward (Feb 12, 2020)

Strange there was nothing at NAMM. maybe it isn’t ready yet or they just rethought it.


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## mrpanoff (Feb 13, 2020)

Webmaestro said:


> Nothing that I'm aware of... and I thought for sure there'd be SOME kind of info at NAMM. But... nothing.
> 
> So, I'm going to assume (for now) that this isn't happening. Not anytime soon.
> 
> If someone knows differently, let me know. Better yet, tell me how/where/who I can call to start speccing one of these.





Lorcan Ward said:


> Strange there was nothing at NAMM. maybe it isn’t ready yet or they just rethought it.



We should've shat on the poor Tree a little too much, and they're reading.


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## mrpanoff (Feb 22, 2020)

* _must'_ve


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## mrpanoff (Apr 22, 2020)

Well, no ToL-free CS even for COVID survivors, Ibanez?


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## c7spheres (Apr 22, 2020)

mrpanoff said:


> We should've shat on the poor Tree a little too much, and they're reading.


 That would be great if they re-thought it and made the tree just an extra charge, or offered blank fretboards. Forcing extravagant inlays like this is more about them and thier legacy/image than customers. Inlays can always be added later so at least offer blank. Get over yourself Ibanez, everyone knows who you are. If you offer the option people will know all about it. In case you haven't noticed Ibanez, you have a fanbase that knows more about your guitar than you do it would seem.
- I think all manufacturs should offer blank fretboards and non painted/finished options for all guitars. It makes no extra work for them, saves them money and gives customers the option what color/finish and inlays they put on thier guitars. They gotta get over thinking a big inlay of a symbolic tree and toilet bowl burl blue top are more popular than blank fretboards and basically almost any other finish. End of rant. : )

tldr;
Another amongst dozens of other cry baby rants about Ibanez having vast potential but never quite getting it. Apparently all examples of their previous greatness were just limited exdition flukes of random chance.


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## mrpanoff (Apr 30, 2020)

Even more ToL weed, now in HHS:

https://www.ibanez.com/jp/products/detail/rg8560_00_01.html


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## _MonSTeR_ (Apr 30, 2020)

mrpanoff said:


> Even more ToL weed, now in HHS:
> 
> https://www.ibanez.com/jp/products/detail/rg8560_00_01.html



The only thing more prevalent than the ToL inlay on a J-Custom is your battery of posts complaining about it.  
It’s been their thing for years and it must work for them or they’d have changed it already!!!

That said I’m still bemoaning the fact that they don’t make JEMs with the swirl finish anymore and haven’t done for 20 years now!!!


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## Emperoff (Apr 30, 2020)

Never forget.


MaxOfMetal said:


> Don't get your hopes up guys.


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## mrpanoff (Apr 30, 2020)

Emperoff said:


> Never forget.





_MonSTeR_ said:


> The only thing more prevalent than the ToL inlay on a J-Custom is your battery of posts complaining about it.



Still unaware if it was this thread of years ago that may or may have not been party to the birth of the only ToL-free J. custom same spec 6/7 pair since 2007, RG7570 and RG7527. I'm aware they do read though.

https://www.jemsite.com/forums/f22/petition-open-semi-custom-shop-based-upon-j-custom-117833.html


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## mrpanoff (May 1, 2020)

^^ Oh, and RG7570Z came out shortly after.


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## _MonSTeR_ (May 1, 2020)

Yeah, they do read. They also pay attention to the sale figures and dealer feedback.

The J-custom range is intended for the Japanese market and reflects the wants of the guitar buying public there. The rest of the world gets exploratory marketing of the same sorts of guitars to see how well they sell in other areas. The fact that, in the 8 years since you started the thread on Jemsite, there seem to be only three models that don't have the vine should tell you that Ibanez and their intended market *loves* the vine. 

It's probably also the reason that the dealers you contacted didn't think they could sell the other 5 guitars from a run of 6 if they ordered one for you and had a bunch left over, they know from the sales figures that when people want a J-Custom, they want the vine.

I think your best bet is to try to go through a well connected dealer, someone like the Axepalace who regularly spec out limited runs of the guitars people actually want and see if they can get on board with your idea and would be willing to finance the run and sell on the spares. They seem to have done a great job with the other runs they've done.


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## mrpanoff (May 1, 2020)

Thank you, actually I'm happy with the 10-year periodicity of the non-vine models right now, otherwise I may not be able to keep up financially.

Maybe they should shift it to 5 years or so.

Oh, and in case you are reading Ibanez - the next 6/7 pair is blank fingerboard with binding!


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## Velokki (May 1, 2020)

I just now read about this thread.

Must-have tree of life-inlay... why oh why....


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## Wildebeest (May 1, 2020)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> That said I’m still bemoaning the fact that they don’t make JEMs with the swirl finish anymore and haven’t done for 20 years now!!!


The amount of Jems that should have had pyramid inlays instead of dots and vines in the past 20 years sickens me. Bring them back.


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## _MonSTeR_ (May 2, 2020)

Wildebeest said:


> The amount of Jems that should have had pyramid inlays instead of dots and vines in the past 20 years sickens me. Bring them back.



Now that Steve Vai has adopted the PIA as his main guitar and had updated the vineto his tastes, but Ibanez continues to sell premium JEMs I think it’s the perfect time for him to relax his control over the JEM a little and let the fans of that guitar get some more interesting combinations. Including the return of the pyramids!


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## shadowlife (May 2, 2020)

Add me to the group who would rather see pyramids!


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## jco5055 (Nov 23, 2021)

So I'm sure this was cancelled, or at least put on hold with COVID, but has there been any source where it's at least acknowledged this has been the case? As opposed to "well it's been 2 years and no update..."


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## bostjan (Nov 23, 2021)

jco5055 said:


> So I'm sure this was cancelled, or at least put on hold with COVID, but has there been any source where it's at least acknowledged this has been the case? As opposed to "well it's been 2 years and no update..."


Was there even ever a source that said that this would ever exist?!


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## jco5055 (Nov 23, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Was there even ever a source that said that this would ever exist?!



I think just that initial video in the OP was all there was unfortunately


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## bostjan (Nov 23, 2021)

jco5055 said:


> I think just that initial video in the OP was all there was unfortunately


I suppose that answers the question. I don't think it ever got to the point where there was any guarantee that it was going to be a thing, covid or not. Therefore, why would Ibanez announce that they are no longer going to do the thing that they never seriously considered and never announced that they were doing?

It would be really cool to log onto the Ibanez site and use their builder and then order a semi-custom, but the logistics would be pretty serious to roll that out for a company as big as Ibanez. Plus, how many unofficial Ibanez semi-customs can you get by buying Ibanez stickers and using a combination of small luthiers and Ibanez parts? @MaxOfMetal was pretty insightful when he told people not to get excited about this idea, which was based on a quick conversation with a guy in an Ibanez booth at a trade show with no literature to back it up.


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