# The Twitter fued we didn't know we needed....



## ArtDecade (Oct 3, 2022)

Idiots and dummies, prepare for battle. Sebastian Bach and some guy in Falling In Reverse are name calling and slamming each other on Twitter. The youngsters pulled out of a show when their laptops didn't show up at the gig and they lost their backing tracks. The old guy told them that they should have just played the gig because that is Rock and Roll. And of course, Eddie Trunk and Nikki Sixx are throwing their two cents in. Full disclosure: I have never heard of Falling In Reverse, so I question how much of their live performance actually requires tracks but maybe they have lots of sound effects or something.

https://blabbermouth.net/news/idiot...ts-in-twitter-feud-over-use-of-backing-tracks


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## CanserDYI (Oct 3, 2022)

Falling in Reverse sucks. Anything Ronnie Radke sucks.


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 3, 2022)

Flailing In My Turds can eat a shit covered log for all I care.

IDGAF how boomery it makes me, 5 fucking guys in a band and they can’t come up with SOME kind of arrangement to make their set work? GTFO.

I want to see Sebastian and Radke settle this onstage-

2 mics, just reverb. Each guy goes up and sings any song from their catalog without auto tune or any bullshit helping them out. Whoever can actually pull off their song within 90% efficiency gets to go on Twitter and say “Neener neener I’m better than you”

Ya know who else uses a shitload of samples, loops and backing tracks live? Sevendust…..and you know who can go out and actually pull it off without the tracks? Sevendust.


(And being fair, I hate the fact that Morgan has been miming his screams for nearly 20 years. Just let them play, man, you’re killing it on drums, quit the miming shit)


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## /wrists (Oct 3, 2022)

big cringe


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 3, 2022)

either way, there are contracts to be honored regardless of the situation unless there is a clause that states they don'y have to fulfill the contract if their laptops don't show up. The whole idea of laptops is portability, right? ..like you take them with you because they are small and light.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 3, 2022)

I like how Sebastian Bach doesn’t even know he walks onstage to a backing track and can’t comprehend how Queen had a live track for Bobemian Rhapsody before laptops were invented. 

Twitter is an area of the Internet I am happy to never go near.


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## Esp Griffyn (Oct 3, 2022)

100% behind Bach on this one. So the laptops didn't turn up, couldn't they work around it? Aren't they supposed to be musicians? Did they never think of ways to cope without their backing tracks, just in case something like this happened?

It sounds like being unprofessional and failing to prepare properly.


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 3, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I like how Sebastian Bach doesn’t even know he walks onstage to a backing track and can’t comprehend how Queen had a live track for Bobemian Rhapsody before laptops were invented.
> 
> Twitter is an area of the Internet I am happy to never go near.



I think that’s kind of missing the point; his walk-out music was a backing track, not his entire set and once the band starts, there’s no more backing track. And Queen using a sample of a choir section in one song is hardly a comparison to a band needing to cancel an entire gig because they’ve got their entire set on backing tracks. 

I saw these turds at Rockville, I was curious then how much was on tracks because I could definitely tell all the vocals that required hitting pitches was on tracks, the only thing I could tell was live was the rapping and the drums. After this situation, I really wonder if the guitarists were even playing. 

I saw Fit For A King a couple years ago and both the guitars and bass were on tracks…..lamest fucking shit I’ve seen yet.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 3, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I like how Sebastian Bach doesn’t even know he walks onstage to a backing track and can’t comprehend how Queen had a live track for Bobemian Rhapsody before laptops were invented.
> 
> Twitter is an area of the Internet I am happy to never go near.



Bach is probably old enough to remember that this is how Queen used to perform BR without the backing track. They dropped the vocal madness and just transitioned to the next song whereas this random band didn't even bother to play the gig. My guess - Reverse Falling Over can't play their parts live.


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## sleewell (Oct 3, 2022)

oh hey look at this thing that actually exists.


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## Crungy (Oct 3, 2022)

I wonder how FIR didn't realize they're going to get some shit for this... Do they play/sing anything live?


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## ArtDecade (Oct 3, 2022)

Crungy said:


> I wonder how FIR didn't realize they're going to get some shit for this... Do they play/sing anything live?


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## mmr007 (Oct 3, 2022)

I thought laptops were strictly to enjoy the portability of porn. These described alternate uses have been ...educational.

To the issue at hand...its unfortunate that so many fans either do not know or do not care about the prevalence of tracks to augment a "live" performance.

oh and fuck this Ronnie Radtke dude


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## eaeolian (Oct 3, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


>


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 3, 2022)

I can totally understand how a show hinges on computer control and not wanting to give a half-ass performance. What I don't understand is how a band of that level doesn't have all of their critical files backed up multiple places and how they can't just go grab some new laptops. Once you get to venues where bands don't play on the floor anymore a good majority of bands rely on computers for either tracks, control, IEMs, etc. Welcome to the current year or whatever.


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## Decapitated (Oct 3, 2022)

Great, now 3 more people know who FIR is. Guess this is the best publicity they could ask for.


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## Crungy (Oct 3, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> What I don't understand is how a band of that level doesn't have all of their critical files backed up multiple places and how they can't just go grab some new laptops.


Seriously... There's cloud storage, thumb drives like @sleewell said, tiny ssd drives, etc. There's no excuse, it's not like all of their gear was stolen.


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## Legion (Oct 3, 2022)

Benefits of having a band in a third world country: you can barely afford laptops so you never run into this particular problem.


LUL


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 3, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> I think that’s kind of missing the point; his walk-out music was a backing track, not his entire set and once the band starts, there’s no more backing track. And Queen using a sample of a choir section in one song is hardly a comparison to a band needing to cancel an entire gig because they’ve got their entire set on backing tracks.



I was just mentioning two things from Sebatian’s tweets that I found funny. I wasn’t arguing for or against the use of laptops, just how he didn’t read what the other guy wrote……….


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 3, 2022)

Legion said:


> Benefits of having a band in a third world country: you can barely afford laptops so you never run into this particular problem.
> 
> 
> LUL


You mean you have to play the song? Like people used to do? That’s just not right


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## Legion (Oct 3, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> You mean you have to play the song? Like people who used to do? That’s just not right


Ikr? You fucking first worlders have it way too easy





EDIT: before I get dogpiled, that's a joke at my own expense


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## nightlight (Oct 3, 2022)

Backing tracks are fine for leading up to a show or a song, but I always feel like if they don't really do it when they launch into a song, it probably isn't real.


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## Emperoff (Oct 3, 2022)

Same thing happened with Periphery when they were touring with Dream Theater. Their computers failed or something and they lost all their backing tracks and automated MIDI patch changes. It was a massive trainwreck to the point Petrucci approached the band and literally said: "You guys better fix this shit".

I sure as hell would fix my shit if Petrucci menaced me to


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## ArtDecade (Oct 3, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Same thing happened with Periphery when they were touring with Dream Theater. Their computers failed or something and they lost all their backing tracks and automated MIDI patch changes. It was a massive trainwreck to the point Petrucci approached the band and literally said: "You guys better fix this shit".



Little did Petrucci know, that the tracks and MIDI had already been fixed. The sound he was hearing was just Periphery sounding like Periphery.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 3, 2022)

ouch


ArtDecade said:


> Little did Petrucci know, that the tracks and MIDI had already been fixed. The sound he was hearing was just Periphery sounding like Periphery.


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## thrsher (Oct 3, 2022)

as an IT professional. people don't respect the need for a comprehensive backup solution until shit hits the fan, just my experience over and over again.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 3, 2022)

thrsher said:


> as an IT professional. people don't respect the need for a comprehensive backup solution until shit hits the fan, just my experience over and over again.


you'd think that if this is their profession and its critical to their livelihood, this contingency would be planned for.


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## Dr. Caligari (Oct 3, 2022)

"Live" music that isn't actually live is some of the lamest shit in the universe. Can't believe people are ok with paying to see shit like that. Fuck that shit.


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## nightflameauto (Oct 3, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> you'd think that if this is their profession and its critical to their livelihood, this contingency would be planned for.


I've known the odd multimillion dollar corporation that failed backup and contingency because, "We never used that shit before" when the bean-counters get the year-end statement on backup. They never notice until they need it, but then it's too late to rubberstamp the months out of date solution.

Stupid? Absolutely. But if there's one thing us humans excel at, it's out-stupiding ourselves.


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## pahulkster (Oct 3, 2022)

Backing tracks are lame. Samples and those kind of things are a different story. I get it and everything but it's just disappointing when I see bands I like use them.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 3, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> "Live" music that isn't actually live is some of the lamest shit in the universe. Can't believe people are ok with paying to see shit like that. Fuck that shit.


happens almost every superbowl for the past decade


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## ArtDecade (Oct 3, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> happens almost every superbowl for the past decade


True, but most people bought the ticket for the football game so they probably won't care all that much if the Weeknight mimes to some 80s sythpop outtake.


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## coreysMonster (Oct 3, 2022)

Yeah no sorry guys I can't play the show, my guitar string broke. Yeah, the high B string. Need that string for _at least_ two of our songs. Nah even if I _had _a spare, I don't have the allen wrench I need to undo the thing. Call the label, they either need to send me a new guitar or the tour is cancelled.


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## Netherhound (Oct 3, 2022)

If a band wants to use backing tracks, that's their prerogative. Tons of artist do.

It's entirely a another thing to cancel the performance outright. Own up to what happened to the live audience, say the set is going to be more "raw" or whatever dumb buzzword and do the gig with whatever backline that would be available. Hell, make an adjustment to the setlist if needed.

As a performer, your fans are there to see you do that...perform. This isn't enough of a reason to cancel their gig and they know it. Any experienced gigging musician would know this. The show must go on.


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## SexHaver420 (Oct 3, 2022)

Backing tracks don't matter as long as the riffs are dank. Skid Row has way better riffs than Falling In Reverse therefore Sebastian Bach is right this time. This thread made me remember how rad the first two Skid Row albums are so I'm gonna go listen to them now


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## CanserDYI (Oct 3, 2022)

What's the old saying, if you have one, you have none? Always have a backup, it will always fail if given enough chances to.


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 3, 2022)




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## Crungy (Oct 3, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> What's the old saying, if you have one, you have none? Always have a backup, it will always fail if given enough chances to.


I thought the saying was this, but yours makes a little more sense


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## Hollowway (Oct 3, 2022)

Does anyone know the actual story here? I don’t know that they’d ever tell us what they use the laptops for, but it could be interesting to hear. They lost money not playing the show, so I’m curious what the rational was. Can they play and sing all of the music live? Was it an iem/click/lights/etc issue? It just seems too weird that they’d cancel if they could play it live anyway.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 3, 2022)

I hate metal boomers like Trunk but Ronnie is like a waaaaaaay more massive shithead, so drag the motherfucker.


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## CTID (Oct 3, 2022)

Legion said:


> Benefits of having a band in a third world country: you can barely afford laptops so you never run into this particular problem.
> 
> 
> LUL


man, San Diego's gotten worse since the last time i've been, huh?


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## mmr007 (Oct 3, 2022)

Jus


HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I hate metal boomers like Trunk but Ronnie is like a waaaaaaay more massive shithead, so drag the motherfucker.


Just curious why….the hate for metal boomers in general or Trunk specifically?


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## Hollowway (Oct 3, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Jus
> 
> Just curious why….the hate for metal boomers in general or Trunk specifically?


I can’t answer for him, but for me it’s because THEY tend to go off about stuff all the time. There was a thread on FB about FIR, and one guy kept criticizing them. I could see his points until he dropped a “your generation relies on technology and has no talent” on the guy he was arguing with. I’m just tired of the whole, “new music sucks, only the old music had talented guys. I’m a tough guy because I listen to Crue and have tattoos. If it’s too loud you’re too old. Only losers wear ear protection, play more than six strings…”


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## noob_pwn (Oct 3, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> I think that’s kind of missing the point; his walk-out music was a backing track, not his entire set and once the band starts, there’s no more backing track. And Queen using a sample of a choir section in one song is hardly a comparison to a band needing to cancel an entire gig because they’ve got their entire set on backing tracks.
> 
> I saw these turds at Rockville, I was curious then how much was on tracks because I could definitely tell all the vocals that required hitting pitches was on tracks, the only thing I could tell was live was the rapping and the drums. After this situation, I really wonder if the guitarists were even playing.
> 
> I saw Fit For A King a couple years ago and both the guitars and bass were on tracks…..lamest fucking shit I’ve seen yet.


Some bands are good, some bands suck. Using tracks isn't the problem. Pink floyd did it on the wall tour in 1980, to a click, and nobody questioned David Gilmour's ability to play guitar. A lot of the use of laptops is because bands have ever shrinking budgets. They are expected to have a light show, but can't afford an operator so they need to program it. You need a click track and laptop for that. They are expected to fly equipment around the world but the airlines are ramming everyone on baggage. VST's don't cost hundreds of dollars to check onto a flight. They need to change tunings but can't afford a tech or to travel multiple guitars, a laptop could automate pitch shifters on a digital guitar rig. They have orchestral parts but can't afford to tour an orchestra.. you get the picture.


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## Hollowway (Oct 4, 2022)

I don’t know the first thing about FIR (never heard of them until this week), but this kind of reminds me of an interview I read where a recording engineer was talking about recording with The Edge from U2. They wanted to record his parts dry, and add the delays afterward. But the way he plays, he said he couldn’t play the parts well dry, because it lost lost that rhythmic feel of the layers of delay that make his sound. And he would have 2 or three delays going, and dialed in to the click to keep it as part of the rhythm. So if he had to do an entire show without delay, and work it out in 24 hours, that might not be doable. Or if a band like Meshuggah had to do their set on acoustic guitars, that might not be doable, because it would just be such a foreign thing to try to do. It’s true just about anyone can adapt a song to an acoustic set, but I’m not sure any band could easily adapt an entire show to an acoustic set in 24 hours - and pull it off well.

The one thing I CAN’T wrap my head around is why no backups (that just seems sooooo crazy to me) and why go on record saying it’s your crew’s fault. Those seem like dumb and asshole moves.

(I’m quite sure I’m dedicating way more thinking about this than I should, so there’s that, too. I’m just trying to figure out what the decision making process was to cancel the show.)

(Lastly, I have a very low bar for cool band names. And I just can’t find anything redeeming about Falling In Reverse. I’m not sure why, but it just sounds like trying too hard.)


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## Legion (Oct 4, 2022)

CTID said:


> man, San Diego's gotten worse since the last time i've been, huh?


LMFAO

No no, last time I had a band and regularly played gigs was back in India

My bad!


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 4, 2022)

How complicated would a laptop setup be? I presume it’s a single DAW project with the night’s set in a row. The drummer presses play and everyone gets a count-in through in ears, midi changes happen throughout the song and then you press stop at the end. Some complicated routing to send the sound to the mixing desk and then back to in-ears but surely you could just download the project off cloud storage.

I understand intros, outro’s, synth etc would need a lot of time to download and position in the timeline so for some bands it wouldn’t be ideal like Sabaton or Wintersun.


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 4, 2022)

noob_pwn said:


> Some bands are good, some bands suck. Using tracks isn't the problem. Pink floyd did it on the wall tour in 1980, to a click, and nobody questioned David Gilmour's ability to play guitar. A lot of the use of laptops is because bands have ever shrinking budgets. They are expected to have a light show, but can't afford an operator so they need to program it. You need a click track and laptop for that. They are expected to fly equipment around the world but the airlines are ramming everyone on baggage. VST's don't cost hundreds of dollars to check onto a flight. They need to change tunings but can't afford a tech or to travel multiple guitars, a laptop could automate pitch shifters on a digital guitar rig. They have orchestral parts but can't afford to tour an orchestra.. you get the picture.



Thank you for explaining things I’ve known about and have used in my own bands for 20+ years now.  

You’re comparing a MASSIVE stage show where they literally built a giant fucking wall and separated all the 10-15 musicians onstage hundreds of feet apart or behind/in front of the wall. Probably not too easy for Gilmour to see what was going on below him when he’s hoisted 150 feet in the air on top of the wall. 

That’s not even in the same category as 5 guys standing 15 feet from each other not being able to play their show because they don’t have a laptop. If you took away the stage production, Floyd could still play their songs without assistance. 

And going further in the Floyd comparison, both the ‘88 and ‘94 tours only relied on visual cues from the videos to come in and since the band would improvise most of the solo sections, the video/lighting guys couldn’t just push a button and let it play, they were performing with the band in real time.


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## Randy (Oct 4, 2022)

Only mistake Radke made was explicitly stating they were cancelling a show over a missing laptop, that just sounds weak AF. Also, back that shit up. There's no way you couldn't clone your entire stage show onto an external drive or even the cloud.

Boomers/Gen X are gonna pick things to go off about "back in my day" yeah, but the target was probably less the backing tracks and more the "I can't perform because I don't have a laptop" sounds so defeated limp dick zoomer.


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## nightflameauto (Oct 4, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> The one thing I CAN’T wrap my head around is why no backups (that just seems sooooo crazy to me) and why go on record saying it’s your crew’s fault. Those seem like dumb and asshole moves.


Thank you. I was trying to figure out what anybody associated with this mess had accomplished with any of this and you finally pointed it out.

Falling in Reverse made sure their crew are always, always, ALWAYS trying EXTRA hard to please them by publicly calling them at fault for them not being able to play a set like a band. Yeah, good job guys.


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## Crungy (Oct 4, 2022)

I don't understand why any generation (especially in the last 5+ years) has amped up the current generation vs the last battles... Zoomers vs Gen x vs boomers etc

It's been exactly the same since _*forever*_ and it always will be.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 4, 2022)

Crungy said:


> I don't understand why any generation (especially in the last 5+ years) has amped up the current generation vs the last battles... Zoomers vs Gen x vs boomers etc
> 
> It's been exactly the same since _*forever*_ and it always will be.
> 
> View attachment 115324



Gen X here. To be fair, we are totally the forgotten generation. And we want it to stay that way.


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## tedtan (Oct 4, 2022)

The issue isn’t using backing tracks to augment your set, it’s being so reliant on them that you can’t play your set without them.


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## Crungy (Oct 4, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Gen X here. To be fair, we are totally the forgotten generation. And we want it to stay that way.


We're the unsung hero generation, bridging the gap between boomers and Gen Y and Z. 

We're basically saints.


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## CanserDYI (Oct 4, 2022)

Crungy said:


> We're the unsung hero generation, bridging the gap between boomers and Gen Y and Z.
> 
> We're basically saints.


Your generation is full of sad sacks and underachievers and you both should be ashamed.

I on the other hand, a millennial, have NOTHING to be ashamed about.

Man that was hard to even type without smirking. God.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 4, 2022)

Gen X are like a generation of cats. We just do what we want and get away with it because we are cute.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 4, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Gen X are like a generation of cats. We just do what we want and get away with it because we are cute.


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## Randy (Oct 4, 2022)

tedtan said:


> The issue isn’t using backing tracks to augment your set, it’s being so reliant on them that you can’t play your set without them.



Seconding this.

Not to pull a "back in my day" but when I was still gigging (that includes bands with backing tracks), you always had a plan B, C, D etc if equipment went out, a member couldn't make it, etc. Cancelling the show was the last, last, last possible option.

I remember playing a gig years back and the guitarist for the headliner broke his hand the night before, so they recruited someone from an opener to play the songs the crowd wanted to hear the most (the two of three singles) and the rest of the set was like a cover jam with members of the rest of the bands. It was actually a great show and a unique experience for the audience, I don't think anyone was disappointed.

Folding because the laptop is missing/broken is just... not good. Revamp the set to include stuff you don't need the backup tracks for and cut it short if you have to. Call your engineer and get him to dump some stems of your important stuff without the vox, bass, drums on them and play to that. You can probably MacGuyver some of that together with finished tracks if you really had to. Something.


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## nightflameauto (Oct 4, 2022)

You guys must be talking about some different genx. We're founded in, built on, raised to believe in, and live on shame. We were being told by our parents that we upset their grand vision for the world since the day we were born, and told by the next generation that we were lazy fuckfaces for existing since they've popped into the world. And we believe them because it's true.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 4, 2022)

Randy said:


> Seconding this.
> 
> Not to pull a "back in my day" but when I was still gigging (that includes bands with backing tracks), you always had a plan B, C, D etc if equipment went out, a member couldn't make it, etc. Cancelling the show was the last, last, last possible option.
> 
> ...


it just seems like if you rely on backing tracks to that extent you're an 'act' rather than musicians


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 4, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Gen X here. To be fair, we are totally the forgotten generation. And we want it to stay that way.



Technically, I’m a millennial being born in ‘82, but I was raised mostly by my teenage cousins and have _always _felt more aligned with X’ers than millennials….by a wide margin. I fully agree with this, even if I’m shoehorning myself in.


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 4, 2022)

nightflameauto said:


> You guys must be talking about some different genx. We're founded in, built on, raised to believe in, and live on shame. We were being told by our parents that we upset their grand vision for the world since the day we were born, and told by the next generation that we were lazy fuckfaces for existing since they've popped into the world. And we believe them because it's true.



That’s the GenX I associate myself with!


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## ArtDecade (Oct 4, 2022)

Randy said:


> Seconding this.
> 
> Not to pull a "back in my day" but when I was still gigging (that includes bands with backing tracks), you always had a plan B, C, D etc if equipment went out, a member couldn't make it, etc. Cancelling the show was the last, last, last possible option.
> 
> ...


I think that was always the point. The fact that they won't even attempt a gig without tracks means that the show is, well, mostly the tracks. Milli Vanilli must feel like they were born ahead of their time.


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## CanserDYI (Oct 4, 2022)

nightflameauto said:


> You guys must be talking about some different genx. We're founded in, built on, raised to believe in, and live on shame. We were being told by our parents that we upset their grand vision for the world since the day we were born, and told by the next generation that we were lazy fuckfaces for existing since they've popped into the world. And we believe them because it's true.


Yep exactly what I said, sad sacks.


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## nightflameauto (Oct 4, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> That’s the GenX I associate myself with!


Brother!

We should host genx shamefests, but we're all too ashamed to get together to admit how ashamed we are for existing.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Yep exactly what I said, sad sacks.



... wasn't us that created Jersey emo ... just saying.


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## mmr007 (Oct 4, 2022)

Back in my day bands only cancelled a gig for really important reasons like having the wrong colored M&M's in a bowl backstage.


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## Crungy (Oct 4, 2022)

Or running out of booze and cigrits


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## mmr007 (Oct 4, 2022)

Or your name is Axl which is the only reason you think you need


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## Carrion Rocket (Oct 4, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> I think that was always the point. The fact that they won't even attempt a gig without tracks means that the show is, well, mostly the tracks. Milli Vanilli must feel like they were born ahead of their time.


At least all the musicians Frank Farian got to play at the live shows could actually play, the singers were another story.


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## Randy (Oct 4, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> it just seems like if you rely on backing tracks to that extent you're an 'act' rather than musicians



Another layer to that is apparently it doesn't take much to get them to cancel a gig.


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## jaxadam (Oct 4, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Back in my day bands only cancelled a gig for really important reasons like having the wrong colored M&M's in a bowl backstage.



There is a very very interesting read on that…. I believe the crux of it was throwing in an obscure demand like no brown M&M’s was a safety net for taking comfort in the fact that the rest of the complicated contractual requirements were adhered to.









The reason behind Van Halen's brown M&Ms backstage request


It wasn't because they were a bunch of a**holes.



www.insider.com


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 4, 2022)

The amount of old-man-yells-at-cloud in this thread is fantastic.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 4, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> The amount of old-man-yells-at-cloud in this thread is fantastic.


Finally. Some kid showed up. Please defend the band and put Bach in his place. I gotta see the argument.


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## mmr007 (Oct 4, 2022)

Nobody was yelling at clouds....the "greybeards" were suggesting to the youngins to pull some of your money out of neck tattoos and invest moderately in flash drives


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 4, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> The amount of old-man-yells-at-cloud in this thread is fantastic.


but , what is a woman?


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## Werecow (Oct 4, 2022)

I've no idea who the band is, but the last time i saw Bach on social media, it was some sort of Loudwire or Blabbermouth article about him doing something dickish. The comments on the article were Facebook integrated, and there were quite a few people either calling him a dick or just laughing at him. Amongst the comments was a "Sebastian Bach" bad mouthing people, and trying to arrange a place to meet in real life to have an actual fight with the people laughing at him. I thought it was someone having fun with a fake account, but nope, it was the genuine, official, authenticated Sebastian Bach account  He's a classy guy.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 4, 2022)

Werecow said:


> I've no idea who the band is, but the last time i saw Bach on social media, it was some sort of Loudwire or Blabbermouth article about him doing something dickish. The comments on the article were Facebook integrated, and there were quite a few people either calling him a dick or just laughing at him. Amongst the comments was a "Sebastian Bach" bad mouthing people, and trying to arrange a place to meet in real life to have an actual fight with the people laughing at him. I thought it was someone having fun with a fake account, but nope, it was the genuine, official, authenticated Sebastian Bach account  He's a classy guy.


Bach is total douche canoe... but he isn't wrong here. He is the blind squirrel that finally found a nut.


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## Werecow (Oct 4, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Bach is total douche canoe... but he isn't wrong here. He is the blind squirrel that finally found a nut.


Yeh, not denying that. It just suddenly reminded me of that pretty hilarious memory.


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 4, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> pull some of your money out of neck tattoos and invest moderately in flash drives



that's not how tattoos work, bOoMeR

although, I say that, one of my tattoo artist friends told me she has had people come back to her after the fact like "it was too expensive, can I have some of my money back?"


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## mmr007 (Oct 4, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> that's not how tattoos work, bOoMeR
> 
> although, I say that, one of my tattoo artist friends told me she has had people come back to her after the fact like "it was too expensive, can I have some of my money back?"


so not for nothing but I am actually Gen X....the greatest generation that ever lived because we experienced everything that ever mattered first hand and we were the last generation to exist before whining and pouting became part of the human DNA.


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## jaxadam (Oct 4, 2022)




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## ShredmasterD (Oct 4, 2022)

t


mmr007 said:


> so not for nothing but I am actually Gen X....the greatest generation that ever lived because we experienced everything that ever mattered first hand and we were the last generation to exist before whining and pouting became part of the human DNA.


The last truely free generation as well. Before google and facebook big tech /big brother started tracking and profiling/cataloging everything everyone does all day long. and street cameras and cell phone pings and listening in


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## mmr007 (Oct 4, 2022)

jaxadam said:


>


Looking at that do you laugh, do you cry?....or do you pretend it is photoshopped so you still have enough faith in humanity to continue on with your day in a fully functional manner?


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 4, 2022)

this thread will surpass Dirty Puma


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## ArtDecade (Oct 4, 2022)

No Ragrets.


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## Crungy (Oct 4, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> this thread will surpass Dirty Puma


It's getting there


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 4, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> so not for nothing but I am actually Gen X....the greatest generation that ever lived because we experienced everything that ever mattered first hand and we were the last generation to exist before whining and pouting became part of the human DNA.



As a millennial born in the 80s, raised on a remote Alaska island in the 90s back when "10 years behind the times" was still a real thing, I am part of the last generation to remember what it was like before everything was on the Internet. I have gotten to enjoy a front row seat to the complete and total technocratic obliviation of all things good and holy. I straddle the divide between self-loathing, shame-motivated bootstrappers and beset peter-pan types with no hope for the future or themselves and a crippled sense of intrinsic motivation. I'm like a Megazord (a timely analogy if ever there was one) of turn-of-the-century generational traits.

When I give people directions to my house, I always have to tell them "don't trust Google maps, it will lie, you have to read the address signs like it's the 90s."



mmr007 said:


> Looking at that do you laugh, do you cry?....or do you pretend it is photoshopped so you still have enough faith in humanity to continue on with your day in a fully functional manner?



Eris says that all things are true, even false things.

edit: just in case it's remotely unclear, I mean absolutely no ill will and am enjoying this conversation immensely


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## CanserDYI (Oct 4, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> No Ragrets.


Man, you spell as good as the Einstein who spelled the thread title!


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## mmr007 (Oct 4, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> edit: just in case it's remotely unclear, I mean absolutely no ill will and am enjoying this conversation immensely


I've seen nothing or heard nothing to suggest ill will....besides, I'm Gen X, we don't know the meaning of faux outrage. Yes the convo is enjoyable.


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## nightflameauto (Oct 4, 2022)

I feel kinda bad that I was an early-ish Internet proponent. I dug making web sites and chatting with people online and thought the web would make us better as a species. As a knowledge repository, it's still outstanding if you have two braincells to use to filter out the dreck, but the dreck keeps growing faster than the actual knowledge. Not to mention, once the big money noticed, it's all been surveillance in the name of profit and stupidity promoted over sense to continue to propagate that profit.

And we as a species seem bound and determined to prove day-by-day that we don't deserve to be here.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Man, you spell as good as the Einstein who spelled the thread title!



The OP is a total knob.


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## jaxadam (Oct 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Man, you spell as good as the Einstein who spelled the thread title!


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## mmr007 (Oct 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Man, you spell as good as the Einstein who spelled the thread title!


Fun fact, Einstein himself was not a good speller. Everyone knows it's i before e, Einstein's got it wrong twice in his own name


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 4, 2022)

reminds me of some graffiti in BG, Ohio, attributing some trite quote about intelligence to "Einstien"

it was accidentally deep as hell


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## MFB (Oct 4, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Fun fact, Einstein himself was not a good speller. Everyone knows it's i before e, Einstein's got it wrong twice in his own name



Huh, that sure is weird, guess I better go check with my neighbor and see what he thinks about this


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 4, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Finally. Some kid showed up. Please defend the band and put Bach in his place. I gotta see the argument.


There's no defense, they should have had backups in place. This whole "yeah, you do a big production but you should just do a shitty version of it when you're shit isn't working right because otherwise you're not a rEaL MUsIcIAn" thing is so silly.


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## BuckarooBanzai (Oct 4, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> that's not how tattoos work, bOoMeR
> 
> although, I say that, one of my tattoo artist friends told me she has had people come back to her after the fact like "it was too expensive, can I have some of my money back?"



Back when I'd be a substitute soundman for VFW/church/coffee shop core shows I was always surprised by how many guitarists chose to spend $10k on tattoos instead of $1k on a used 5150 to replace their Line 6 Spider head. People always seem to have money for what they want and not for what they need and this is just the deathcore version of that.

Regardless of the "personalities" involved in this and the aesthetic judgment of automating performances via DAW the Falling in Reverse camp is to blame for being a bunch of inept clowns. Everybody and their dog knows to back this type of stuff up on a USB stick or iCloud.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 4, 2022)

BuckarooBanzai said:


> Back when I'd be a substitute soundman for VFW/church/coffee shop core shows I was always surprised by how many guitarists chose to spend $10k on tattoos instead of $1k on a used 5150 to replace their Line 6 Spider head. People always seem to have money for what they want and not for what they need and this is just the deathcore version of that.
> 
> Regardless of the "personalities" involved in this and the aesthetic judgment of automating performances via DAW the Falling in Reverse camp is to blame for being a bunch of inept clowns. Everybody and their dog knows to back this type of stuff up on a USB stick or iCloud.


 the line 6 spider people are will be here soon to dogpile


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## coreysMonster (Oct 4, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> The amount of old-man-yells-at-cloud in this thread is fantastic.


The cloud is just somebody else's computers, we've all been had. _Had_, I tells ya!






The average age on this forum is too high for me to be an old man though. I grew up with Beast Wars, not the original Transformers.


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## zappatton2 (Oct 4, 2022)

coreysMonster said:


> The average age on this forum is too high for me to be an old man though. I grew up with Beast Wars, not the original Transformers.


G1 _all the way_, dangnammit!!! Okay, now I'm gonna have to check out this Falling in Reverse band to see how much of their sound is reliant on computers. I mean, I get an Aphex Twin show falling through over this, but it seems weird for a rock band. But then, I _am _one of those dreaded Gen X'ers. And as that young and wily up-and-comer Will Smith likes to say, Gen X just don't understand.


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## nightflameauto (Oct 4, 2022)

zappatton2 said:


> G1 _all the way_, dangnammit!!! Okay, now I'm gonna have to check out this Falling in Reverse band to see how much of their sound is reliant on computers. I mean, I get an Aphex Twin show falling through over this, but it seems weird for a rock band. But then, I _am _one of those dreaded Gen X'ers. And as that young and wily up-and-comer Will Smith likes to say, Gen X just don't understand.


I grew up on G1, but see Beast Wars and Beast Machines as so intimately tied with G1 that it's now tough for me to separate them, even though I didn't see Beast Wars until it was off the air for a hundred thousand years or so. I vaguely recall flipping channels and seeing Black Arachnia for a brief moment once, going, "WTF IS THIS SHIT?" then not coming back to it until I bought the box set years later.


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## zw470 (Oct 4, 2022)

This is just the first song that came up on YouTube. Without whatever was on their laptops I'm guessing at least half of this song would have just been him singing/rapping/talking and nothing else.


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## OmegaSlayer (Oct 4, 2022)

Go figure, decades ago people showed up on stage totally stoned and devastated and could put up a hell of a show

Bach is a grumpy old fart, and had been an annoying young fart, but in his prime, even cooked with marijuana, he could destroy 99% of mainstream-ish nowadays bands


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## ArtDecade (Oct 4, 2022)

zw470 said:


> This is just the first song that came up on YouTube. Without whatever was on their laptops I'm guessing at least half of this song would have just been him singing/rapping/talking and nothing else.



He should have done an 8 mile rap-off with fans.


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## jaxadam (Oct 4, 2022)




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## coreysMonster (Oct 4, 2022)

zappatton2 said:


> G1 _all the way_, dangnammit!!!


That's right, Gen Y took your beloved Transformers and made them FURRIES

...and we _prefer them that way_


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 4, 2022)

zw470 said:


> This is just the first song that came up on YouTube. Without whatever was on their laptops I'm guessing at least half of this song would have just been him singing/rapping/talking and nothing else.



this is just a violent britney spears song video with dudes rehashing linkin park type pop but linkin park was better. should be called shitting in reverse.


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## fantom (Oct 4, 2022)

Skimming... 2 things

1. I saw Devin Townsend perform with a screwed up backing track. Drummer apparently wasn't getting the samples in his IEMs. Their solution was to play a click track, loud as *&$# so the drummer could hear it on stage, through the main PA. I would rather they just dropped the samples and synths. I didn't know his catalog. I can say I probably got permanent hearing damage watching one of his songs before walking out.

2. When I finally saw Born of Osiris live, I was extremely pissed off that pretty much the entire mix was prerecorded and the sound guy forgot to turn up the guitars loud enough to hear any of the real time guitar playing.

My point here, bands need to learn how to play a few tracks or just jam without click tracks or backing tracks. I'm a huge fan of many layers of music, but if you strip it down to a 4-5 piece band on stage having fun, I'm still happy to be there. If you do shit like kill my hearing, have me listen to the studio tracks, or just not show up, I will hold it against you for the rest of your career.


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## coreysMonster (Oct 4, 2022)

fantom said:


> I would rather they just dropped the samples and synths.


I know exactly what show you mean, I saw a recording of it and I always wondered why they didn't just do the show without the samples. Heck, he does solo acoustic shows of his material and people love it. That stupid click track through the PA sounded abysmal even on the recording, can't even imagine how crap that must've been live.
In a recent tour he decided to go completely without samples and click track, using only live musicians. Crazy that in 2019 that was considered an artistic statement, but that's the world we live in I guess.


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## Hollowway (Oct 4, 2022)

Bach, in one of the tweets, said something like, "Name a time and a place, and I'll show you what rock and roll is!" or something like that. I think it would be really funny for the FIR guy to name a time and place, like maybe a Starbucks, and have Bach come and explain what Rock and Roll is. I know it was rhetorical, but how would you actually do that? 

Also, I initially thought that maybe the FIR guys themselves weren't the ones that made the call on this. But, after the way the one guy threw the crew under the bus, I suspect if their label or whatever told them to cancel, he would have pinned the blame on them, as well.

And, if Bach REALLY wants to punk them, he should record a couple of FIR tunes with a few guys just plugged directly into amps. Everyone is saying it could be done, and presumably FIR is saying it couldn't. So it would be cool to see someone actually do it.


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## OmegaSlayer (Oct 5, 2022)

Bah, for some reasons I never liked to play live nor go to see bands
I must say that I prefer the art and make the sausages than sell the sausages
It doesn't help that I don't like people with loads of people, I'm not agoraphobic, it's just not my dimension, as I like more intimate contact with people
I'm the kind of guy that doesn't give lessons because I don't have a decree, a paper that justifies me asking money to someone

But I had my gigs in my youth, and I played lead guitar and sing, and with lead guitar I meant not only solos, but the more intricate rhythm parts, and I'm not a talented or educated singer by any means...so it required loads of work and sweat, even for school gigs

So I'm mindblown that nowadays, people that are considered pro are ape crap and I wonder how they got there

So yeah, todays music ring makes me flabbergasted in the wrong way


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## NoodleFace (Oct 5, 2022)

As much as I want to side with Sebastian on this, I can't because he's been a massive tool ever since someone handed him a mic in the 80s


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## zw470 (Oct 5, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> this is just a violent britney spears song video with dudes rehashing linkin park type pop but linkin park was better. should be called shitting in reverse.



Oh totally. I'm not trying to defend their music or their lack of preparedness, just pointing out the solution might not have been as simple as "just actually play the songs live"


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## tedtan (Oct 5, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> There's no defense, they should have had backups in place. This whole "yeah, you do a big production but you should just do a shitty version of it when you're shit isn't working right because otherwise you're not a rEaL MUsIcIAn" thing is so silly.


The thing is that this is show business, and as I’m sure you’ve heard, the show must go on. What does that mean? It means that you have to have contingencies for when things go wrong.

Sure, backups are one contingency - they should have had hard drives on each member’s person, plus cloud backups for extra redundancy. But there are other things that can go wrong, too. What if a member can’t perform? Can the singer double on guitar/bass/keys well enough to cover? What about your techs? Can the guitar tech fill in on bass or guitar if necessary? The drum tech fill in on drums? Can you change the set list to make it work? Etc.

Keep in mind that this isn’t a band made up of high school friends having fun at school talent show or something, they’re supposed to be professional entertainers. That means that people have paid to see the show and if a band cancels, it affects their career negatively, even if they refund the money people paid, because those people are still out their time and travel expenses.

So in the professional world, the show must go on and the performers need to be ready with various backup plans to make sure that that happens.


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 5, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> shitting in reverse


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 5, 2022)

tedtan said:


> What if a member can’t perform? Can the singer double on guitar/bass/keys well enough to cover? What about your techs? Can the guitar tech fill in on bass or guitar if necessary? The drum tech fill in on drums? Can you change the set list to make it work? Etc.
> 
> Keep in mind that this isn’t a band made up of high school friends having fun at school talent show or something, they’re supposed to be professional entertainers. That means that people have paid to see the show and if a band cancels, it affects their career negatively, even if they refund the money people paid, because those people are still out their time and travel expenses.
> 
> So in the professional world, the show must go on and the performers need to be ready with various backup plans to make sure that that happens.


Going out and putting on a shitshow is not better than canceling. I would 100% rather not see a show than show up and have the fucking tour manager filling in on vocals, or the vocalist trying to play an instrument they're not used to having on-stage. This type of band (and most original acts) aren't Phish, or Dead & Co. where you can sub out a main guy when he has a cold and pretend it's a feature of the show. A lot of people are their for the personalities, or to hear their favorite songs. It's not a Broadway show where there's an understudy for each character, or a blues jam where you can kinda suck and still get by. And nothing personal, but as far as I know, you have as much experience performing for $10k+ guarantees as I do, so why would you know any more about this than anyone else in the thread? Could you image going to see Ozzy and some rando comes out on stage and introduces himself as the guitar tech, but he's filling in for Ozzy because he's sick? That would be sooooo much worse than just calling the show.


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 5, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Looking at that do you laugh, do you cry?....or do you pretend it is photoshopped so you still have enough faith in humanity to continue on with your day in a fully functional manner?



Bro, I live in Florida, I can’t pretend real life is photoshopped every time I go to the beach or a bar by the beach.


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## nightflameauto (Oct 5, 2022)

tedtan said:


> The thing is that this is show business, and as I’m sure you’ve heard, the show must go on. What does that mean? It means that you have to have contingencies for when things go wrong.
> 
> Sure, backups are one contingency - they should have had hard drives on each member’s person, plus cloud backups for extra redundancy. But there are other things that can go wrong, too. What if a member can’t perform? Can the singer double on guitar/bass/keys well enough to cover? What about your techs? Can the guitar tech fill in on bass or guitar if necessary? The drum tech fill in on drums? Can you change the set list to make it work? Etc.
> 
> ...


Part of this is the crossover of "band" and "dj" to the point where the "show" is more "dj" than "band."


GunpointMetal said:


> Going out and putting on a shitshow is not better than canceling. I would 100% rather not see a show than show up and have the fucking tour manager filling in on vocals, or the vocalist trying to play an instrument they're not used to having on-stage. This type of band (and most original acts) aren't Phish, or Dead & Co. where you can sub out a main guy when he has a cold and pretend it's a feature of the show. A lot of people are their for the personalities, or to hear their favorite songs. It's not a Broadway show where there's an understudy for each character, or a blues jam where you can kinda suck and still get by. And nothing personal, but as far as I know, you have as much experience performing for $10k+ guarantees as I do, so why would you know any more about this than anyone else in the thread? Could you image going to see Ozzy and some rando comes out on stage and introduces himself as the guitar tech, but he's filling in for Ozzy because he's sick? That would be sooooo much worse than just calling the show.


Really? That last point? Really?

Fucking Metallica, in the nineties, so well into their prime, had a tech fill in on guitar for James. Never heard anybody disappointed by it. Fucking Metallica. James fuckin' Hetfield--arguably, his right hand is the star of the show--had a tech fill in.

Maybe you're feeling like you're stretchin' your britches with this argument, but I think ya missed the mark, bud.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 5, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> Bro, I live in Florida, I can’t pretend real life is photoshopped every time I go to the beach or a bar by the beach.


in some ways...that could be a good thing uu


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 5, 2022)

i


GunpointMetal said:


> Going out and putting on a shitshow is not better than canceling. I would 100% rather not see a show than show up and have the fucking tour manager filling in on vocals, or the vocalist trying to play an instrument they're not used to having on-stage. This type of band (and most original acts) aren't Phish, or Dead & Co. where you can sub out a main guy when he has a cold and pretend it's a feature of the show. A lot of people are their for the personalities, or to hear their favorite songs. It's not a Broadway show where there's an understudy for each character, or a blues jam where you can kinda suck and still get by. And nothing personal, but as far as I know, you have as much experience performing for $10k+ guarantees as I do, so why would you know any more about this than anyone else in the thread? Could you image going to see Ozzy and some rando comes out on stage and introduces himself as the guitar tech, but he's filling in for Ozzy because he's sick? That would be sooooo much worse than just calling the show.


saw brad gillis step and perform the entire show only a few days after randy rhoads died.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 5, 2022)

nightflameauto said:


> Part of this is the crossover of "band" and "dj" to the point where the "show" is more "dj" than "band."
> 
> Really? That last point? Really?
> 
> ...


Did the tech do the vocals, too? 


ShredmasterD said:


> i
> 
> saw brad gillis step and perform the entire show only a few days after randy rhoads died.


On an Ozzy tour, right?


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 5, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Did the tech do the vocals, too?
> 
> On an Ozzy tour, right?


yep. we thought randy rhoads death was a hoax because they were still having the concert. it was gillis who was there playing guitar


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## mmr007 (Oct 5, 2022)

I hesitate to bring this up but it amazes me that Pantera think they can go tour without Dime but FIR can't play a single show without a laptop.

I would agree with the aforementioned comments about DJ's.....that a guy pressing "play" on his ipod in front of 60,000 dipshits on molly in Indio California alongside actual bands blurred the line between what is and isn't a live performance. Add that sometimes Buckethead plays his guitar parts with nothing but backing tracks and this singer from Stone Roses is doing a karaoke tour with a full backing track for a band and the list goes on.....

It sucks but I think seeing a band* live* will now forever mean you "experienced" the band live, not that the band actually recreated their music live in any sense.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 5, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> yep. we thought randy rhoads death was a hoax because they were still having the concert. it was gillis who was there playing guitar


So a secondary/tertiary part of the show was replaced… few days later?


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 5, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> I hesitate to bring this up but it amazes me that Pantera think they can go tour without Dime but FIR can't play a single show without a laptop.
> 
> I would agree with the aforementioned comments about DJ's.....that a guy pressing "play" on his ipod in front of 60,000 dipshits on molly in Indio California alongside actual bands blurred the line between what is and isn't a live performance. Add that sometimes Buckethead plays his guitar parts with nothing but backing tracks and this singer from Stone Roses is doing a karaoke tour with a full backing track for a band and the list goes on.....
> 
> It sucks but I think seeing a band* live* will now forever mean you "experienced" the band live, not that the band actually recreated their music live in any sense.


Been that way for 30+ years after a certain level.


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## mmr007 (Oct 5, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Been that way for 30+ years after a certain level.


I don't disagree. If you've seen Kiss in the last 30 years you've already given up


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 5, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> I don't disagree. If you've seen Kiss in the last 30 years you've already given up


I don’t even think about Kiss without financial compensation.


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 5, 2022)

nightflameauto said:


> Part of this is the crossover of "band" and "dj" to the point where the "show" is more "dj" than "band."
> 
> Really? That last point? Really?
> 
> ...



There was also the Summer Sanitarium gig where Lars couldn’t play so they had every other drummer come out and play instead. No one had time for rehearsal and while plenty of guys on that tour were hugely influenced by Metallica when growing up, it’s still a totally different thing to get on a stage in front of 60,000 people, unrehearsed and you gotta play with the world’s biggest metal band that you’re also a huge fan of. The mental aspect of that must have been nuts for those drummers but they all got up and did it. 

Or Randy from LoG getting covid a couple months ago and they scrambled to find fill-in singers who all had to read lyric sheets on the floor and only knew the songs on a surface level. 

I pretty much came to the conclusion it’s all a lost cause once actual musicians started agreeing it was perfectly fine to put standard instruments on backing tracks to use at live performances, not just shit that’d cost a fortune pull off live like choirs, orchestras, etc. I think it’s lame as fuck to have regular guitar and bass tracks on tape, or if you’ve got 5 guys onstage and still need fucking backing vocals on tracks. 

IDGAF how boomery it is to expect a band to put the effort into pulling their shit off live, there’s no way I’ll ever see it differently.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 5, 2022)

randy rhoads secondary? tertiary? sure thing buddy


GunpointMetal said:


> So a secondary/tertiary part of the show was replaced… few days later?


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## tedtan (Oct 5, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Going out and putting on a shitshow is not better than canceling. I would 100% rather not see a show than show up and have the fucking tour manager filling in on vocals, or the vocalist trying to play an instrument they're not used to having on-stage.


That’s at least twice that you’ve equated not having backing tracks with being a shit show. Why does performing without some backing tracks automatically equal shit to your mind? People have done that successfully for centuries. Again, there is nothing wrong with backing tracks, but they are not a necessity.




GunpointMetal said:


> This type of band (and most original acts) aren't Phish, or Dead & Co. where you can sub out a main guy when he has a cold and pretend it's a feature of the show. A lot of people are their for the personalities, or to hear their favorite songs. It's not a Broadway show where there's an understudy for each character, or a blues jam where you can kinda suck and still get by. And nothing personal, but as far as I know, you have as much experience performing for $10k+ guarantees as I do, so why would you know any more about this than anyone else in the thread? Could you image going to see Ozzy and some rando comes out on stage and introduces himself as the guitar tech, but he's filling in for Ozzy because he's sick? That would be sooooo much worse than just calling the show.


Believe it or not, this happens all the time. As @nightflameauto mentioned, James Hatfield burned his right hand because he was standing too close to a pyro and couldn’t play guitar for a couple of weeks, so his tech filled in and no one cared (Hetfield still sang). And that’s just one of many such instances.

Trust me, if Metallica could do that while they were one of the biggest bands on the planet, Shitting in Reverse can do it as unknown nobodies.




nightflameauto said:


> Part of this is the crossover of "band" and "dj" to the point where the "show" is more "dj" than "band."


To which I would ask: why would someone pay to see a DJ “perform” live? I know they do, but why (serious question)?

If you just want to hang out and get high in a crowd, you don’t need a DJ for that.


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## tedtan (Oct 5, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> So a secondary/tertiary part of the show was replaced… few days later?


Without Randy Rhoads, Ozzy would not have had a career post Sabbath. Full Stop.

He was hardly a secondary/tertiary part of the show and to state so indicates your ignorance of the subject matter. Modern bands are cool, but you’re missing out on some great music if you’re not also looking back to your favorite bands’ influences, and their influences’ influences, etc.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 5, 2022)

tedtan said:


> Without Randy Rhoads, Ozzy would not have had a career post Sabbath. Full Stop.
> 
> He was hardly a secondary/tertiary part of the show and to state so indicates your ignorance of the subject matter. Modern bands are cool, but you’re missing out on some great music if you’re not also looking back to your favorite bands’ influences, and their influences, etc.


exactly correct. and a style of metal from all the young players emulating him would not have happened. i would call rhoads coequal to, or greater than ozzy himself in the blizzard of oz era. in NO WAY a simple replacement a few days after he died.


----------



## nightflameauto (Oct 5, 2022)

tedtan said:


> To which I would ask: why would someone pay to see a DJ “perform” live? I know they do, but why (serious question)?
> 
> If you just want to hang out and get high in a crowd, you don’t need a DJ for that.


That's a very fair question and I have no idea why. I mean, you wanna hit the club and listen to tunes real loud? Cool. But don't call it a concert.

I think there's something lost on the younger generation that never got swept up in that vicious circle at a metal show where the music literally lived and breathed with the audience. Where the songs and the rhythms feel alive as the audience rises and falls with the band.

If you've never been there, maybe you truly believe you HAVE to have backing tracks, clicks, perfect everything for any form of 'show?' *SHRUG*

Don't get me wrong, I've seen Dethklok, which is arguably one band that would be vastly different without the click and cartoon playing. But you can't argue those fuckers wouldn't be able to play the show without all that shit. Both times I saw them at the end of the show they turned off all the bullshit and just played a couple crowd demolishers without enhancement and it was awesome.

And if I hear one word of besmirchment against Gene fuckin' Hoglan, Bryan Beller, Mike Keneally, and Brendan Small I'll get old man angry up in this piece.


----------



## Mathemagician (Oct 5, 2022)

As long as Gen X - who had the coolest sounding name - know their place. And judging by this thread they do. Now go wait for your bosses to “retire” for another decade in the hopes of getting promoted.


----------



## ShredmasterD (Oct 5, 2022)

know their place? someone gunna put them "back in their place" if they stray from someone's approval or something? gen x fools, working for a living...who knew the world need people to produce things. shit grows on trees for free everyone knows that


----------



## RevDrucifer (Oct 5, 2022)

nightflameauto said:


> That's a very fair question and I have no idea why. I mean, you wanna hit the club and listen to tunes real loud? Cool. But don't call it a concert.
> 
> I think there's something lost on the younger generation that never got swept up in that vicious circle at a metal show where the music literally lived and breathed with the audience. Where the songs and the rhythms feel alive as the audience rises and falls with the band.
> 
> ...



I’m more than sure the only reason Dethklok was running a click was to keep in sync with the video stuff. I mean, those guys are on a whole different level of awesome.

I brought this up over at TGP as well, but Devin Townsend used to go out with a shitload of backing tracks up until his last tour, the one he brought Keneally out on. No backing tracks, no clicks, 100% live and it was the best I ever heard him live.


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 5, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> I can totally understand how a show hinges on computer control and not wanting to give a half-ass performance. What I don't understand is how a band of that level doesn't have all of their critical files backed up multiple places and how they can't just go grab some new laptops. Once you get to venues where bands don't play on the floor anymore a good majority of bands rely on computers for either tracks, control, IEMs, etc. Welcome to the current year or whatever.



This. 

There are plenty of bands whose set and lighting is all run off of a laptop that has all of it sync’d up. A computer failure or theft could make it practically impossible to play a show. However, there should be backups carried around in multiple places. One of the bud, one in the cloud, and ideally one that stays with each band member. It’s not expensive to do. That way you can run out and grab a new new machine and spin it up at a moment’s notice, if the machines are stolen, missing, or broken. Always have a backup.


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 5, 2022)

Everyone who said their piece on this exchange was being a douche canoe about it. Don’t people know not to engage with Bach at this point? Trunk should keep his mouth shut when it comes to being a music performer. He’s not one. Radke should have just let it go. I’m not surprised the whole thing degenerated to a dick measuring contest with a former pro wrestler.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Oct 5, 2022)

tedtan said:


> To which I would ask: why would someone pay to see a DJ “perform” live? I know they do, but why (serious question)?
> 
> If you just want to hang out and get high in a crowd, you don’t need a DJ for that.



Maybe he's more of an "electronic artist" than a "DJ" but I saw Com Truise and it was fucking lit. he had midi trigger pads and stuff though so it wasn't like he was "just pressing play," though I also question how often that's actually/only what happens.

On the other hand, when I saw Snoop he had no backing tracks and entire band with keys, guitar, bass, a full percussion section AND a trap kit drummer. This was in Alaska too, he could've rapped over tracks and we would've eaten it up but he put on a real live show. I have massive respect for him as a performer after that. Nappy Roots came up here around the same time and rapped over studio tracks and it sucked. They also had shit attitudes.


----------



## wannabguitarist (Oct 5, 2022)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Go figure, decades ago people showed up on stage totally stoned and devastated and could put up a hell of a show
> 
> Bach is a grumpy old fart, and had been an annoying young fart, but in his prime, even cooked with marijuana, he could destroy 99% of mainstream-ish nowadays bands



Sorry but this cracks me up. You'd have to consume a massive amount of edibles to forget how to properly sing. Would probably pass out far before that happens 



nightflameauto said:


> That's a very fair question and I have no idea why. I mean, you wanna hit the club and listen to tunes real loud? Cool. But don't call it a concert.
> *
> I think there's something lost on the younger generation that never got swept up in that vicious circle at a metal show where the music literally lived and breathed with the audience. Where the songs and the rhythms feel alive as the audience rises and falls with the band.*
> 
> If you've never been there, maybe you truly believe you HAVE to have backing tracks, clicks, perfect everything for any form of 'show?' *SHRUG*



This is still a thing at modern metal shows with young kids. Nothing's been lost on the younger generation. Y'all need to get outside and talk to some people.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 5, 2022)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Bah, for some reasons I never liked to play live nor go to see bands
> I must say that I prefer the art and make the sausages than sell the sausages
> It doesn't help that I don't like people with loads of people, I'm not agoraphobic, it's just not my dimension, as I like more intimate contact with people
> I'm the kind of guy that doesn't give lessons because I don't have a decree, a paper that justifies me asking money to someone
> ...


Having known you for a long time, this is post so different it feels like I fed a bot a bunch of OmegaSlayer posts and this is what it generated.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 5, 2022)

Has FIR come out and said anything else since this? I’m curious if they’re going to do any “damage control,” or just let the issue fade away.


----------



## tedtan (Oct 5, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> Maybe he's more of an "electronic artist" than a "DJ" but I saw Com Truise and it was fucking lit. he had midi trigger pads and stuff though so it wasn't like he was "just pressing play," though I also question how often that's actually/only what happens.
> 
> On the other hand, when I saw Snoop he had no backing tracks and entire band with keys, guitar, bass, a full percussion section AND a trap kit drummer. This was in Alaska too, he could've rapped over tracks and we would've eaten it up but he put on a real live show. I have massive respect for him as a performer after that. Nappy Roots came up here around the same time and rapped over studio tracks and it sucked. They also had shit attitudes.


Yeah, if they are actually performing something, it makes sense. And I’m sure there is more of that than I’m aware of, because I’m mostly aware of DJs who are writing/arranging/producing/mixing.

Regardless, I don’t have a problem with it, it’s just not my thing, so I’m out of the loop on it.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 5, 2022)

Rather than starting a new thread about it, I'd thought I'd post here as this makes quite the fascinating companion piece to the debacle:









The Stone Roses' Ian Brown performs bizarre sold-out show without a band: Watch


The singer performed over a backing track during the opening night of his UK tour.




consequence.net





Ian Brown being part of the old guard, ditches the band altogether for a full karaoke tour, and charges premium for it. Gotta admire the cast iron balls required to pull this off.


----------



## neurosis (Oct 5, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Rather than starting a new thread about it, I'd thought I'd post here as this makes quite the fascinating companion piece to the debacle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just when things were settling down


----------



## neurosis (Oct 5, 2022)

let me tell you... who needs laptops when you have robots.


----------



## BornToLooze (Oct 5, 2022)

Are we talking about this Falling in Reverse?



I didn't even know they were still a thing


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Oct 5, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Rather than starting a new thread about it, I'd thought I'd post here as this makes quite the fascinating companion piece to the debacle:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow. I adore Stone Roses but those clips were real bad. I absolutely butchered some Third Eye Blind at karaoke a few weeks ago... shoulda been charging cover I guess.


----------



## OmegaSlayer (Oct 6, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Having known you for a long time, this is post so different it feels like I fed a bot a bunch of OmegaSlayer posts and this is what it generated.


I'm following the Malmsteen way
Getting old and less boisterous


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 6, 2022)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> the old guard


Im gonna guess the thing he’s guarding is those backing tracks, because if anyone steals those, there really is no show.


----------



## nightflameauto (Oct 6, 2022)

wannabguitarist said:


> Sorry but this cracks me up. You'd have to consume a massive amount of edibles to forget how to properly sing. Would probably pass out far before that happens
> 
> 
> 
> This is still a thing at modern metal shows with young kids. Nothing's been lost on the younger generation. Y'all need to get outside and talk to some people.


My post was in direct response to the dude saying missing a laptop is a completely reasonable reason to not be able to play the songs at all. To me, that's not saying the music lives and breathes with the audience. It's pre-recorded shit, with a little frosting on top. Maybe. If the band isn't just lip-syncing and miming the rest.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Oct 6, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Im gonna guess the thing he’s guarding is those backing tracks, because if anyone steals those, there really is no show.



The £50 question, though: does he have a backup?


----------



## ArtDecade (Oct 6, 2022)

Ian Brown is a total waster. He might think a band is actually behind him.


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## tedtan (Oct 6, 2022)

tedtan said:


> Yeah, if they are actually performing something, it makes sense. And I’m sure there is more of that than I’m aware of, because I’m mostly aware of DJs who are writing/arranging/producing/mixing.
> 
> Regardless, I don’t have a problem with it, it’s just not my thing, so I’m out of the loop on it.


I tried to listen, but couldn’t make it past the singing. But in that first minute or so that I saw, it could be easily “performed” (or maybe I should say regurgitated) without backing tracks.

That was pure shite.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Oct 6, 2022)

BornToLooze said:


> Are we talking about this Falling in Reverse?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't even know they were still a thing




That solo always gets me. You have this emo/glam metal song with a simple rhythm section and then this monstrous neo-classical solo shred fest comes out of nowhere. He quit this band to go solo but formed a power metal but don't think they are still around. Dude is an insane guitar player on par with guys like Jason Richardson but hasn't posted in a long time.


----------



## Riffer (Oct 6, 2022)

I play in a cover band and have played probably around 1,000 shows. We use a laptop for tracks for auxiliary sounds. Like if we are playing this one Dua Lipa song it's got some strange noises in the verse that we can't really replicate so we have it in there. Or for the song Valerie which has a horn section. We have a keyboardist in our band so he does horn parts usually like in Superstition, but in Valerie he is doing more piano/keyboard sounds and can't also cover the horns, so we have them in the track. We also have a click in there as well. There has been times where the laptop crashed, the track malfunctioned somehow, we got separated from the click track, etc. When that happens we've always just kept going because everything else is live. Vocals, drums, bass, guitar, keys are all played by us. We don't rely on the computer as the heart of the show. WE are the show. My in ear monitors even broke one time and I played the whole show just relying on hearing what the room sound was and muscle memory of how the songs go. We never straight up mime our parts though. That's fucking bullshit.

I saw a few people mention that the light show is also run from a laptop. OK. Well I guess you won't have your flashy light then. The only thing I can think of to where not having a laptop would be enough to cancel a show would be if the guitar players don't use a live amp or an actual physical rig and all their stuff was plugins and run by the computer which is totally possible in this case. But that's when having a backup plan comes into play. How much time between finding out the laptops were gone and deciding to cancel the show was there? They couldn't of borrowed any amps? I feel like there had to be a way to save the show before cancelling. 

If the computer was in charge of in ear mixes, guess what, try and use a floor monitor and a sound tech.
If you use click tracks, guess what, play without the click and hope your drummer can keep good time.
If the computer ran lights, guess what, play without the lights.


----------



## tedtan (Oct 6, 2022)

Riffer said:


> The only thing I can think of to where not having a laptop would be enough to cancel a show would be if the guitar players don't use a live amp or an actual physical rig and all their stuff was plugins and run by the computer which is totally possible in this case. But that's when having a backup plan comes into play. How much time between finding out the laptops were gone and deciding to cancel the show was there? They couldn't of borrowed any amps? I feel like there had to be a way to save the show before cancelling.


That’s a good point, but is addressed through backups like you (and others) have said. Cancelling altogether seems really over the top in this case.


----------



## bostjan (Oct 6, 2022)

wannabguitarist said:


> Sorry but this cracks me up. You'd have to consume a massive amount of edibles to forget how to properly sing. Would probably pass out far before that happens


There are two types of stoners who believe that they are 100% functional when stoned: those who are, and those who think they are, but are not.  I know quite a few of the latter type. They'll believe with 100% confidence that they slayed their performance, so you gotta take video.


----------



## tedtan (Oct 6, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> That solo always gets me. You have this emo/glam metal song with a simple rhythm section and then this monstrous neo-classical solo shred fest comes out of nowhere. He quit this band to go solo but formed a power metal but don't think they are still around. Dude is an insane guitar player on par with guys like Jason Richardson but hasn't posted in a long time.


I didn’t make it that far. Is the solo worth going back and suffering through the singer to find the solo?


----------



## ShredmasterD (Oct 6, 2022)

Lorcan Ward said:


> That solo always gets me. You have this emo/glam metal song with a simple rhythm section and then this monstrous neo-classical solo shred fest comes out of nowhere. He quit this band to go solo but formed a power metal but don't think they are still around. Dude is an insane guitar player on par with guys like Jason Richardson but hasn't posted in a long time.


this is about a poser as it gets. super highly processed ...keyboards play big roll in sound but no keyboard player, glam /80's motly crew / poison image rip off vibe with tatts. betting its all pitch corrected vocals because it sounds it and psuedo shred solo icing on a sht cake .. fk this teenie pop poser sht.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Oct 6, 2022)

So much angry low T in here.


----------



## ShredmasterD (Oct 6, 2022)

neurosis said:


> let me tell you... who needs laptops when you have robots.



on so many levels is so right yet so wrong. performance art on a new level.


----------



## mmr007 (Oct 8, 2022)

I soooo enjoy Justin Hawkins...and also some of those RR tweets are kinda funny


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 8, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> I soooo enjoy Justin Hawkins...and also some of those RR tweets are kinda funny



I hadn’t seen those memes.  I feel like, these days, if you’re going to get into an online fight, memes should be the weapons of choice. It’s more entertaining for us viewers.


----------



## MetalDaze (Oct 8, 2022)

Randy said:


> Another layer to that is apparently it doesn't take much to get them to cancel a gig.


This is true. They canceled a bunch of Rockzilla shows this summer for a variety of reasons. All last minute screwing over their fans that drove a long way to get there.

There was one at a casino supposedly due to Covid, but people started tweeting pics of the band gambling.


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 8, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> This is true. They canceled a bunch of Rockzilla shows this summer for a variety of reasons. All last minute screwing over their fans that drove a long way to get there.
> 
> There was one at a casino supposedly due to Covid, but people started tweeting pics of the band gambling.


Yeah, I'm going to guess they don't much enjoy playing shows, and just about any excuse will do.


----------



## Veldar (Oct 10, 2022)

nightflameauto said:


> That's a very fair question and I have no idea why. I mean, you wanna hit the club and listen to tunes real loud? Cool. But don't call it a concert.
> 
> I think there's something lost on the younger generation that never got swept up in that vicious circle at a metal show where the music literally lived and breathed with the audience. Where the songs and the rhythms feel alive as the audience rises and falls with the band.
> 
> ...


You should watch a full boiler room DJ set. DJing is as much an art form as another musical instrument. 

It's mixing between tunes skillfully and reading the crowd to inform where you will take them next instead of technical prowess.


----------



## MrBouleDeBowling (Oct 10, 2022)

I play as a one man band and rely on my prerecorded bass and drum machine backing tracks so I _kinda_ get it but I'm baffled and find hard to believe that FIR, a professionnal touring band with a whole ass crew had no backup.


----------



## Vegetta (Oct 10, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> I soooo enjoy Justin Hawkins...and also some of those RR tweets are kinda funny



That Radke dude looks like the We have Glen Danzig at home starter kit.


----------



## AuroraTide (Oct 10, 2022)

tedtan said:


> I didn’t make it that far. Is the solo worth going back and suffering through the singer to find the solo?


You're probably better off just looking up Jacky Vincents playing instead. His power metal band was Cry Venom. He can shred.


----------



## RevDrucifer (Oct 10, 2022)

bostjan said:


> There are two types of stoners who believe that they are 100% functional when stoned: those who are, and those who think they are, but are not.  I know quite a few of the latter type. They'll believe with 100% confidence that they slayed their performance, so you gotta take video.



As a smoker of 25 years that doesn’t really know anyone outside of work that doesn’t smoke, this is 100% accurate.


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 22, 2022)

neurosis said:


> let me tell you... who needs laptops when you have robots.




You don’t have to pay robots. You don’t even have to worry about getting along with robots. AND people will still be impressed with your show. 



Riffer said:


> I play in a cover band and have played probably around 1,000 shows. We use a laptop for tracks for auxiliary sounds. Like if we are playing this one Dua Lipa song it's got some strange noises in the verse that we can't really replicate so we have it in there. Or for the song Valerie which has a horn section. We have a keyboardist in our band so he does horn parts usually like in Superstition, but in Valerie he is doing more piano/keyboard sounds and can't also cover the horns, so we have them in the track. We also have a click in there as well. There has been times where the laptop crashed, the track malfunctioned somehow, we got separated from the click track, etc. When that happens we've always just kept going because everything else is live. Vocals, drums, bass, guitar, keys are all played by us. We don't rely on the computer as the heart of the show. WE are the show. My in ear monitors even broke one time and I played the whole show just relying on hearing what the room sound was and muscle memory of how the songs go. We never straight up mime our parts though. That's fucking bullshit.
> 
> I saw a few people mention that the light show is also run from a laptop. OK. Well I guess you won't have your flashy light then. The only thing I can think of to where not having a laptop would be enough to cancel a show would be if the guitar players don't use a live amp or an actual physical rig and all their stuff was plugins and run by the computer which is totally possible in this case. But that's when having a backup plan comes into play. How much time between finding out the laptops were gone and deciding to cancel the show was there? They couldn't of borrowed any amps? I feel like there had to be a way to save the show before cancelling.
> 
> ...



Lots of modern synth players use computers for their shows. So do some guitarists. Probably all the guitar changes are coded into MIDI time code and they may not have floor controls. Imagine showing up at a gig with a single rack, a simple lighting setup, instruments, and a laptop. Hit play, and your introductory music comes on and counts you in. Granted, they should have had a backup, or at least a solid state drive or two with a clone of the computer’s drive on it. Easy to spin up. Takes the time you need to buy a new computer and an hour or so to copy the clone to your new machine. In fact, you can just boot to the clone and then do the copy over after the show. It makes touring much cheaper. Less gear to move around from place to place. NIN runs off of SEVERAL Mac Pro towers. Lights, instruments, clicks, guitar and synth sound change automations…. They’d be SCREWED if their computers went missing.



Veldar said:


> You should watch a full boiler room DJ set. DJing is as much an art form as another musical instrument.
> 
> It's mixing between tunes skillfully and reading the crowd to inform where you will take them next instead of technical prowess.



There’s actually a lot of technique that goes into turntablism. In you’re scratching back and forth between two of the same record, you’ve really gotta practice that stuff. I was in the local EDM scene in the twin where I grew up and know quite a few DJs that spend 10-20 hours a week working their craft.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 23, 2022)

Thaeon said:


> There’s actually a lot of technique that goes into turntablism. In you’re scratching back and forth between two of the same record, you’ve really gotta practice that stuff. I was in the local EDM scene in the twin where I grew up and know quite a few DJs that spend 10-20 hours a week working their craft.


----------



## mmr007 (Oct 23, 2022)

Wow…just like watching Gary Holt live. Her ability to pinch two knobs at once has really allowed her live performance to shine. What dedication.


----------



## ArtDecade (Oct 23, 2022)

Nice. She is doing the Jersey Jerk Off at 1:35. Top notch skills right there.


----------



## ShredmasterD (Oct 23, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Wow…just like watching Gary Holt live. Her ability to pinch two knobs at once has really allowed her live performance to shine. What dedication.


somewhere, some school offers a degree in knob theory. not sure what the core courses would be


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 23, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Nice. She is doing the Jersey Jerk Off at 1:35. Top notch skills right there.



I had to rewatch, I didn’t make it that far the first time!


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 23, 2022)

jaxadam said:


>




Maaaaaaan, there is a HUGE difference between THAT and mixing on actual records. Which most EDM DJs will literally trash you for. Quite literally the DJ equivalent of miming your set to tracks.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 23, 2022)

Thaeon said:


> Maaaaaaan, there is a HUGE difference between THAT and mixing on actual records. Which most EDM DJs will literally trash you for. Quite literally the DJ equivalent of miming your set to tracks.



This is by far the best electronic mix ever made. Just read the comments.


----------



## mmr007 (Oct 23, 2022)

I actually checked out more than one of her videos but only because I was curious if that look she has on her face like she's had a lobotomy was permanent and could be seen on other videos.


----------



## neurosis (Oct 23, 2022)

Ok this thread is going stale. Ler's go!


----------



## RVSNST (Oct 24, 2022)

jaxadam said:


>


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 24, 2022)




----------



## bostjan (Oct 24, 2022)

But what other genre has songs so iconic that I can say "that one that goes dududududooo dududududududooo deedeedeedeedeedeedeeee dududududududoo-doo dududududooo dududududududooo deee dududududooo dududududududooo deee" and you know exactly what song?


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 24, 2022)

bostjan said:


> But what other genre has songs so iconic that I can say "that one that goes dududududooo dududududududooo deedeedeedeedeedeedeeee dududududududoo-doo dududududooo dududududududooo deee dududududooo dududududududooo deee" and you know exactly what song?



Took me one second.


----------



## bostjan (Oct 24, 2022)

No, no, I mean the song with the drumbeat that goes like "boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats tatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatattatatatatatatatatatatatattatatatatatatatatatatata PEEEEEEW!"


----------



## michael_bolton (Oct 24, 2022)

bostjan said:


> No, no, I mean the song with the drumbeat that goes like "boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats boots cats "



you mean "boots and pants" amirite


----------



## bostjan (Oct 24, 2022)

michael_bolton said:


> you mean "boots and pants" amirite



Yeah, maybe pants is a little warmer...

There are lots of snare sounds, though... hey which Metallica song is this: "shh shh shh TONG!  shh shh shh TONG! shh shh shh TONG! shh shh shh TONG! TONKA TONKA TONG bump TONKA TONKA TONG bump..."


----------



## zw470 (Oct 24, 2022)

bostjan said:


> But what other genre has songs so iconic that I can say "that one that goes dududududooo dududududududooo deedeedeedeedeedeedeeee dududududududoo-doo dududududooo dududududududooo deee dududududooo dududududududooo deee" and you know exactly what song?


----------



## bostjan (Oct 24, 2022)

zw470 said:


>



{flickers light switch on and off whilst twirling a glowstick}


----------



## LordCashew (Oct 24, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> but , what is a woman?


Beer apparently.


----------



## LordCashew (Oct 24, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> somewhere, some school offers a degree in knob theory. not sure what the core courses would be


Probably...


nightflameauto said:


> stretchin' your britches





coreysMonster said:


> FURRIES





nightflameauto said:


> Fucking Metallica





OmegaSlayer said:


> sell the sausages





AlexCorriveau said:


> ass crew





nightflameauto said:


> right hand is the star of the show


And my personal favorite...


ShredmasterD said:


> shitting in reverse


----------



## Bodes (Oct 25, 2022)

bostjan said:


> {flickers light switch on and off whilst twirling a glowstick}


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 25, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> This is by far the best electronic mix ever made. Just read the comments.




Eh, I don’t think the mix album thing is interesting. Just like I don’t think audio recordings of live bands are interesting. And we all know that comments on YouTube are rarely to be taken serious. Even if the comment itself is meant that way. It’s either a troll or an echo chamber. 

There are electronic artists who put more into an album than most bands do. BT for instance. Wrote an entire album in C Sound. We’re also talking about a Berklee grad who plays multiple instruments and is a software developer for izotope. That said, there ARE a billion EDM artists out there that just phone it in with loops and lazy songwriting, because they only care that a track works in a club. It doesn’t have to stand on its own merit. I don’t respect those artists beyond the hustle to get heard.



bostjan said:


> But what other genre has songs so iconic that I can say "that one that goes dududududooo dududududududooo deedeedeedeedeedeedeeee dududududududoo-doo dududududooo dududududududooo deee dududududooo dududududududooo deee" and you know exactly what song?



Literally The Police. But still funny.


----------



## prlgmnr (Oct 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> shh shh shh TONG! shh shh shh TONG! shh shh shh TONG! shh shh shh TONG! TONKA TONKA TONG bump TONKA TONKA TONG bump..."


I'm even more worried about you than usual, everything ok?


----------



## creepymcpeepers (Oct 26, 2022)

I Like falling in reverse


----------



## ArtDecade (Oct 26, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I Like falling in reverse



Is this a cry for help... what can we do for you?


----------



## profwoot (Oct 26, 2022)

Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Regardless of whether a band _could have_ planned an old-school tour without any automation, once your entire performance, including all preset/fx switching, the light show, etc. is setup to be dependent on a laptop, the intended performance simply can't happen without said laptop. The only option I can think of would be an abbreviated unplugged set, but if the band hasn't rearranged and rehearsed their songs for such a format, it's unlikely to go over well. All the angst about this seems to be the same sort of ignorant knee-jerk bullshit that characterizes, well, every other aspect of public discourse these days.

Granted, they really should have had a backup laptop.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Oct 26, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I Like falling in reverse



it's okay creepy sometimes I like to eat tater tots and mini corndogs for dinner


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 26, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> it's okay creepy sometimes I like to eat tater tots and mini corndogs for dinner


I don’t think they are using the laptop to just play there tracks it just changes a lot of the settings and stuff like different parameters and sounds and stuff automation type stuff ya know… really non different from someone standing backstage at a Guns N’ Roses show switching effect pedals and stuff


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 26, 2022)

I’m not mad at Ronnie….


----------



## GunpointMetal (Oct 26, 2022)

profwoot said:


> Seems pretty cut and dried to me. Regardless of whether a band _could have_ planned an old-school tour without any automation, once your entire performance, including all preset/fx switching, the light show, etc. is setup to be dependent on a laptop, the intended performance simply can't happen without said laptop. The only option I can think of would be an abbreviated unplugged set, but if the band hasn't rearranged and rehearsed their songs for such a format, it's unlikely to go over well. All the angst about this seems to be the same sort of ignorant knee-jerk bullshit that characterizes, well, every other aspect of public discourse these days.
> 
> Granted, they really should have had a backup laptop.



This is really what it comes do. Most of the people whining loudly and having a lot to say about backing tracks would have the least enjoyable set at a festival because "keeping it real" or whatever, and they probably wouldn't get a set at a big festival anyways because they won't put the effort in to having a memorable show. But yeah, they should have backups for their backups' backups at that level.


----------



## Tree (Oct 26, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I’m not mad at Ronnie….


But he throws mic stands at his audience of teenage girls.


----------



## ArtDecade (Oct 26, 2022)

Tree said:


> But he throws mic stands at his audience of teenage girls.


To be fair, there shouldn't be teenage girls at his shows... or boys... or, well, anyone. There should be no one at his shows.


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 26, 2022)

if I play a song all the way through beginning to end when recording, rather than playing the chorus and copy/pasting it every time it comes up , and the same with verses...not cutting and pasting, Am I making non GMO organic music? can i just have the computer play all the parts live and say I am a performing artist?


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## CanserDYI (Oct 26, 2022)

zw470 said:


>



God damnit, every few years someone reminds me about this part of my childhood and I guarantee in like a few months I'll forget this existed and someone will be like "Homestar Runner existed" and I'll say this sentence again.


----------



## creepymcpeepers (Oct 26, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> if I play a song all the way through beginning to end when recording, rather than playing the chorus and copy/pasting it every time it comes up , and the same with verses...not cutting and pasting, Am I making non GMO organic music? can i just have the computer play all the parts live and say I am a performing artist?


I don’t think computer plays all the parts live


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## CanserDYI (Oct 26, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I don’t think computer plays all the parts live


No one was arguing that they do, I think the biggest gripe people have is that you'd expect them to still be able to, you know, play some songs given they have 2 guitarists, a bassist, a drummer, and a singer. Give 'em a clean tone and a dirty tone and they SHOULD be fine, but for some reason this was show ending for them.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 26, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> if I play a song all the way through beginning to end when recording, rather than playing the chorus and copy/pasting it every time it comes up , and the same with verses...not cutting and pasting, Am I making non GMO organic music? can i just have the computer play all the parts live and say I am a performing artist?


You can give yourself a high-five and a cookie because the only who is gonna give a shit is you! Congratulations!


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## ShredmasterD (Oct 26, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I don’t think computer plays all the parts live


nor do i, at least fully, in this case, but that wasn't the thrust of my statement. its a hypothetical scenario and a dig at those who do


----------



## creepymcpeepers (Oct 26, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> No one was arguing that they do, I think the biggest gripe people have is that you'd expect them to still be able to, you know, play some songs given they have 2 guitarists, a bassist, a drummer, and a singer. Give 'em a clean tone and a dirty tone and they SHOULD be fine, but for some reason this was show ending for them


It wouldn’t be the same without all the electronic elements and backing tracks and synths and stuff with all the rap stuff they put in there like non heavy parts for that band would just be Ronnie rapping by himself
Probably. Wel also I bet there is different processing on Ronnie’s voice for the rap
Parts the song parts and the scream parts. Well I have watched live videos from
The crowd of falling in reverse and Ronnie can sing really good. He is also preety bad ass at the piano. I think some of these older bands just do
This so they can get back in the spotlight cause no one listens to them
Anymore…except there diehard fans or when it comes on the radio


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 26, 2022)

I dunno man I feel like It was better for the audiences mental health to not hear Ronnie Radke rap, anyways, so I'll call their little issue here a net positive for society.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 26, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> This so they can get back in the spotlight cause no one listens to them
> Anymore…except there diehard fans or when it comes on the radio



LOL. Skid Row have two multi-platinum albums and have sold more records in Australia alone than Falling Into Obscurity have sold worldwide. There are 7 people in Australia.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 26, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> LOL. Skid Row have two multi-platinum albums and have sold more records in Australia alone than Falling Into Obscurity have sold worldwide. There are 7 people in Australia.


The doesn't make SB not a queef.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 26, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> The doesn't make SB not a queef.


Bach is a total knucklehead. That said, the Bachless Skid Row just released an album this year that outcharted everything by Falling Into Seniors.


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 26, 2022)

I think it's fair to say that Skid Row and Falling in Reverse are approximately equally irrelevant in 2022. Album sales being what they are, I also reckon Skid Row has enough of a devoted fan base they could release a compilation of farts and it would sell.

besides, we all know Sebastian Bach's main contribution to the arts was his role in Trailer Park Boys, which stands head and shoulders above either band as far as artistic contribution to society


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 26, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Bach is a total knucklehead. That said, the Bachless Skid Row just released an album this year that outcharted everything by Falling Into Seniors.


I haven’t heard anything off that Bach album but where I will agree with everyone is falling in reverse should have some kind of emergency fallout plan in case this happens. I don’t know exactly what they use the laptop for. If it’s just playing tracks then have the mp3 on another device that’s with them all
Times but i thing it’s more along the lines of parameters being changed by automation from plug ins plug backing tracks of electronic elements. I just wish they would be nice cause I think niki six and Motley Crue is kool and I read his book and I like falling in reverse. Of course I have sang here i go again who hasn’t… I feel wierd taking sides on this one it’s like one of your friends fighting one of your other friends you feel wierd when you take a side… but Ronnie is talented and he gets a lot of shit. I feel sorry for him about his brother to. He’s made mistakes like I have. I forgive him and I hope one day people will forgive me


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 26, 2022)

Who do you think would really win the fight though ya know Sebastian Bach saying he would fight Ronnie… Bach is about a grandpa even though he rocks and he deserves respect… Ronnie radke is a convict and he is preety swoll to… you ussually don’t get out of a jail without having some kind of act of violence that you have to participate in, and with him being someone that is somewhat famous lol he probably was singled out… the other prisoners probably knew he had money…. They always try to prey on anyone they know has money in there…I’m just being real….


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 26, 2022)

But with that being said, I have been saying it since the mgk slipknot beef…. The 2022 season of celebrity death match would not golden but titanium or platinum cause there has been a lot of beefs this year ….


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 26, 2022)

I bet the claymation slipknot would have picked up there percusionist instruments and smashed mgks head open


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Oct 27, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> Who do you think would really win the fight though ya know Sebastian Bach saying he would fight Ronnie… Bach is about a grandpa even though he rocks and he deserves respect… Ronnie radke is a convict and he is preety swoll to… you ussually don’t get out of a jail without having some kind of act of violence that you have to participate in, and with him being someone that is somewhat famous lol he probably was singled out… the other prisoners probably knew he had money…. They always try to prey on anyone they know has money in there…I’m just being real….



Ronnie would win, but only if he doesn't forget the laptop that has all of his fight moves choreographed on it.


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## Alberto7 (Oct 27, 2022)

I am confused by this thread. I will follow it.


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 27, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> Ronnie would win, but only if he doesn't forget the laptop that has all of his fight moves choreographed on it.


Back back b…. Well if everyone is brainwashed by call of duty or whatever kids are playing these days this was a mortal kombat scorpion move….. down back b sun zero


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 27, 2022)

Man it’s just it’s kind of like your grandpa saying something about being on your phone when your supposed to be helping him work but he doesn’t realize that people do everything with phones these days the grandpas of rock just want to hold on to there effects pedals and amps and auxiliary inputs… and then the people of today have taken technology and embraced it and I promise you it’s not going away. It’s gonna just keep on coming full force… and the grandpas are great there great they can rock out they don’t have all the technology I understand but we got to move forward or else everything is gonna keep sounding like Guns N’ Roses and ac dc which don’t get me wrong it rocks it’s been rocking but I’ve heard it. I bet when electric guitars came out the people that wanted to hold on to acoustics had a similar type beef about a electric guitar band that had to cancel cause they ran out of cords Or something. In fact they tried to get Johnny cash to play on a electric guitar and he wouldn’t do it… we got to embrace change and if Bach Nikki six don’t want to implement a laptop into their show we got to respect em but let’s let the world keep changing. It’s not like it’s stem cell research or something. I think it’s kool I just wish I could figure out how to make the automation change my sounds with neural dsp 🥹


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## BillK (Oct 27, 2022)

Guys, no one said that laptops, computers and technology in general in music is a bad thing. 
What is bad, is having a gig on any level, let alone being a professional, and not being prepared for that, either playing wise, instruments, hardware etc. 
You always need to have backup for everything (where applies) and have workarounds or you don't even give a single fuck for your audience (who paid to watch you and it's the only reason you play live), you band, your reputation etc.
I mean, If a live show is too much of a hassle for you or your rest lazy ass band to be ready for (almost) anything to go bad, then DO NOT BOOK LIVE SHOWS. 
Stay in your rehearsal room and let the stage for those who really want to do it.
I can go this rant for hours but I think I made my point.


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## cindarkness (Oct 27, 2022)

I don't know what's going on in this thread nor do I have any personal issues with any of the people mentioned in this thread.

But I did give *Falling in Reverse* a listen and I'll be honest that their music just a bunch of hot steaming caca.  
I'm a big fan of all kinds of core. Metalcore, hardcore and pop punk is my jam - but this... nah.


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## Adieu (Oct 27, 2022)

That's ridiculous.

Proper pros would work around any and all kinds of missing equipment or failures thereof, and would improvise something cool even if everything went SPECTACULARLY sideways.

Even if all their shit didn't show up, they had to borrow a single acoustic somewhere, jack it directly into the PA and do a power-ballad-singalong with their audience.


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## wheresthefbomb (Oct 27, 2022)

I remember that Russian Circles' entire backline and guitars got stolen in the last year, they borrowed gear and kept touring.



creepymcpeepers said:


> the grandpas of rock just want to hold on to there effects pedals and amps and auxiliary inputs…


----------



## creepymcpeepers (Oct 27, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> I remember that Russian Circles' entire backline and guitars got stolen in the last year, they borrowed gear and kept touring.


I miss dexters labor a Tory


----------



## Tree (Oct 27, 2022)

I’m in labor a Tory.


----------



## RevDrucifer (Oct 27, 2022)

I feel like this thread is being linked from a Chuck E Cheese forum.


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 27, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> No one was arguing that they do, I think the biggest gripe people have is that you'd expect them to still be able to, you know, play some songs given they have 2 guitarists, a bassist, a drummer, and a singer. Give 'em a clean tone and a dirty tone and they SHOULD be fine, but for some reason this was show ending for them.



These guys probably rehearse an entirely automated show. There are probably parts of their songs that are queuing the band off of a track or something in their IEMs. The thing that’s not excusable is not having a backup. I can understand being reliant on the tech. Probably running software guitars, drum samples, light show sync’s to click and audio…. If you’re no used to doing it that way and have never released the songs that way, I get it. It’s not going to work. Unless I’m on stage performing during a major gear catastrophe, I’d consider not playing if the band isn’t well rehearsed without the tech. I’d rather cancel than put on a shitty performance.



ArtDecade said:


> LOL. Skid Row have two multi-platinum albums and have sold more records in Australia alone than Falling Into Obscurity have sold worldwide. There are 7 people in Australia.



Skid Row are about as relevant to modern rock as grass clippings are to a line cook at work. They were barely relevant to hair metal when they came out. Basically it’s last dying gasp as grunge took over. SR shows are mostly for big hair, and over tanned leathery skin, and muffin tops hanging over leather pants. Granted FiR will be that in 20-30 years as well. But comparing a band that came out in the middle of the depression in record sales just as streaming was taking over selling less records than a band that came out during the highest point in record sales history, when the fan base of the current band doesn’t and hasn’t ever consumed music in that way is the pinnacle of a ridiculous comparison.


----------



## creepymcpeepers (Oct 27, 2022)

Thaeon said:


> These guys probably rehearse an entirely automated show. There are probably parts of their songs that are queuing the band off of a track or something in their IEMs. The thing that’s not excusable is not having a backup. I can understand being reliant on the tech. Probably running software guitars, drum samples, light show sync’s to click and audio…. If you’re no used to doing it that way and have never released the songs that way, I get it. It’s not going to work. Unless I’m on stage performing during a major gear catastrophe, I’d consider not playing if the band isn’t well rehearsed without the tech. I’d rather cancel than put on a shitty performance.
> 
> 
> 
> Skid Row are about as relevant to modern rock as grass clippings are to a line cook at work. They were barely relevant to hair metal when they came out. Basically it’s last dying gasp as grunge took over. SR shows are mostly for big hair, and over tanned leathery skin, and muffin tops hanging over leather pants. Granted FiR will be that in 20-30 years as well. But comparing a band that came out in the middle of the depression in record sales just as streaming was taking over selling less records than a band that came out during the highest point in record sales history, when the fan base of the current band doesn’t and hasn’t ever consumed music in that way is the pinnacle of a ridiculous comparison.


----------



## creepymcpeepers (Oct 27, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


>





Thaeon said:


> These guys probably rehearse an entirely automated show. There are probably parts of their songs that are queuing the band off of a track or something in their IEMs. The thing that’s not excusable is not having a backup. I can understand being reliant on the tech. Probably running software guitars, drum samples, light show sync’s to click and audio…. If you’re no used to doing it that way and have never released the songs that way, I get it. It’s not going to work. Unless I’m on stage performing during a major gear catastrophe, I’d consider not playing if the band isn’t well rehearsed without the tech. I’d rather cancel than put on a shitty performance.
> 
> 
> 
> Skid Row are about as relevant to modern rock as grass clippings are to a line cook at work. They were barely relevant to hair metal when they came out. Basically it’s last dying gasp as grunge took over. SR shows are mostly for big hair, and over tanned leathery skin, and muffin tops hanging over leather pants. Granted FiR will be that in 20-30 years as well. But comparing a band that came out in the middle of the depression in record sales just as streaming was taking over selling less records than a band that came out during the highest point in record sales history, when the fan base of the current band doesn’t and hasn’t ever consumed music in that way is the pinnacle of a ridiculous comparison.


You know what I’m trying to say I’m just to dumb to say it


----------



## warhead (Oct 27, 2022)

BillK said:


> Guys, no one said that laptops, computers and technology in general in music is a bad thing.
> What is bad, is having a gig on any level, let alone being a professional, and not being prepared for that, either playing wise, instruments, hardware etc.
> You always need to have backup for everything (where applies) and have workarounds or you don't even give a single fuck for your audience (who paid to watch you and it's the only reason you play live), you band, your reputation etc.
> I mean, If a live show is too much of a hassle for you or your rest lazy ass band to be ready for (almost) anything to go bad, then DO NOT BOOK LIVE SHOWS.
> ...


Man, stop being so reasonable. Nobody wants to hear that shit. You must be a boomer, surely, living in the past, hating progress.....
But irony mode off, yeah, I thought it was quite clear what the boomers hold against the band in question. 
Honor the commitment and do your job, ffs. Bands on tour bring spare guitars with them, drum skins...hell.......even strings...so how couldn't they have a backup for something as crucial in making their concert happen as their laptops?


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 27, 2022)

Man, stop being so reasonable. Nobody wants to hear that shit. You must be a boomer, surely, living in the past, hating progress.....


warhead said:


> But irony mode off, yeah, I thought it was quite clear what the boomers hold against the band in question.
> Honor the commitment and do your job, ffs. Bands on tour bring spare guitars with them, drum skins...hell.......even strings...so how couldn't they have a backup for something as crucial in making their concert happen as their laptops?


They said the back up laptop and the laptop got shipped to the wrong place so maybe they just should just keep it somewhere else huh. But then someone else could steal it and some local band would be performing automated falling in reverse cover band lol


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## warhead (Oct 27, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> Man, stop being so reasonable. Nobody wants to hear that shit. You must be a boomer, surely, living in the past, hating progress.....
> 
> They said the back up laptop and the laptop got shipped to the wrong place so maybe they just should just keep it somewhere else huh. But then someone else could steal it and some local band would be performing automated falling in reverse cover band lol


hahahahhahaha, this sounds really funny, have to be honest.


----------



## creepymcpeepers (Oct 27, 2022)

warhead said:


> hahahahhahaha, this sounds really funny, have to be honest.


Yea I don’t care about falling in reverse anymore inhad my fun with the thread while
I was being responsible but on my phone instead but now I guess I’m just gonna watch some tv but it’s gonna piss me off when the algorithim hands me a video about the same damn story!!


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 27, 2022)

Thaeon said:


> Skid Row are about as relevant to modern rock as grass clippings are to a line cook at work. They were barely relevant to hair metal when they came out. Basically it’s last dying gasp as grunge took over.



 I mean that is hilarious. I guess selling out arenas is barely relevant.


----------



## tedtan (Oct 27, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> Man, stop being so reasonable. Nobody wants to hear that shit. You must be a boomer, surely, living in the past, hating progress.....
> 
> They said the back up laptop and the laptop got shipped to the wrong place so maybe they just should just keep it somewhere else huh. But then someone else could steal it and some local band would be performing automated falling in reverse cover band lol


The thing is that all of their important automation is just MIDI files, so they could each run a DAW on their cell phone with all the MIDI programmed in and run the show from one member’s phone. Audio files could be reduced to stems so that they wouldn’t be too much for a phone, too. 

So were their phones shipped to the wrong address, too?


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 27, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> I mean that is hilarious. I guess selling out arenas is barely relevant.



Relevance doesn’t have anything to do with ticket sales and has everything to do with creating current trends.



tedtan said:


> The thing is that all of their important automation is just MIDI files, so they could each run a DAW on their cell phone with all the MIDI programmed in and run the show from one member’s phone. Audio files could be reduced to stems so that they wouldn’t be too much for a phone, too.
> 
> So were their phones shipped to the wrong address, too?



That’s why I was saying they should all have an SSD on hand with a clone of the drive in the computer. Go buy a new computer and boost off of the external drive. Clone it into the computer on the next day off. They should probably keep the spare computer in one of their backpacks too.


----------



## creepymcpeepers (Oct 27, 2022)

tedtan said:


> The thing is that all of their important automation is just MIDI files, so they could each run a DAW on their cell phone with all the MIDI programmed in and run the show from one member’s phone. Audio files could be reduced to stems so that they wouldn’t be too much for a phone, too.
> 
> So were their phones shipped to the wrong address, too?


I just watched a kool Rufus man video that show you how to convert midi into guitar pro tab…. I wish I could find a band that made midi bass now I would go do that shit


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## jaxadam (Oct 27, 2022)

Thaeon said:


> Relevance doesn’t have anything to do with ticket sales and has everything to do with creating current trends.



I would say they were certainly very relevant and very popular during the 80’s, the time period you are disparaging their success. The metric backing this up would be ticket and album sales. But I guess platinum artists are barely relevant. Hell, they were so relevant to the sound at that time, I saw them live with Poison and couldn’t tell them apart!


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 27, 2022)

I remember when the rockers used to be United
What has happened to us?


----------



## Thaeon (Oct 27, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> I would say they were certainly very relevant and very popular during the 80’s, the time period you are disparaging their success. The metric backing this up would be ticket and album sales. But I guess platinum artists are barely relevant. Hell, they were so relevant to the sound at that time, I saw them live with Poison and couldn’t tell them apart!



Skid Row’s first album came out in January of 1989. Hair metal was only relevant for two years really after that, until Nevermind hit and grunge took over. They were barely around for the 80s. 

Relevance is cultural impact. Not fandom. They were on of the last bands to capitalize on the trend they were a part of. I was around for Hair Metal too. I remember when 18 and Life and I remember you were common plays on the radio. I also remember that by 94-95, you only heard them rarely. I remember Bach’s early solo shows being awful, and in 4-500 seat venues. Where Motley Crue was still playing arenas until they broke up. Then reformed when they should have stayed broken up. Sure they sell tickets, but are the worth seeing? I even like Skid Row. A lot. But I’m not paying to see them live now. Not worth my money. There’s better shit to spend my money on. Most of the people going to see them are 40 or older. That’s not setting trends in music. That’s the same sort of thing as going to the “When We Were Young” festival for the emo kids. Sold out three days in Vegas. Doesn’t mean they’re setting current music trends.


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## mmr007 (Oct 27, 2022)

Sorry but relevance is not the same as cultural impact. Also very few bands that were extremely relevant had the cultural impact of nirvana


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## jaxadam (Oct 28, 2022)

Thaeon said:


> Skid Row’s first album came out in January of 1989. Hair metal was only relevant for two years really after that, until Nevermind hit and grunge took over. They were barely around for the 80s.
> 
> Relevance is cultural impact. Not fandom. They were on of the last bands to capitalize on the trend they were a part of. I was around for Hair Metal too. I remember when 18 and Life and I remember you were common plays on the radio. I also remember that by 94-95, you only heard them rarely. I remember Bach’s early solo shows being awful, and in 4-500 seat venues. Where Motley Crue was still playing arenas until they broke up. Then reformed when they should have stayed broken up. Sure they sell tickets, but are the worth seeing? I even like Skid Row. A lot. But I’m not paying to see them live now. Not worth my money. There’s better shit to spend my money on. Most of the people going to see them are 40 or older. That’s not setting trends in music. That’s the same sort of thing as going to the “When We Were Young” festival for the emo kids. Sold out three days in Vegas. Doesn’t mean they’re setting current music trends.



If they were "barely relevant when they came out" in 1989, then why does this thread exist some 30 odd years later?


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 28, 2022)

Thaeon said:


> Relevance doesn’t have anything to do with ticket sales and has everything to do with creating current trends.
> 
> 
> 
> That’s why I was saying they should all have an SSD on hand with a clone of the drive in the computer. Go buy a new computer and boost off of the external drive. Clone it into the computer on the next day off. They should probably keep the spare computer in one of their backpacks too.


This is preety good right here. Right they easily could have just went and got a damn computer. Could have uploaded the drive and then sold it for more to a fan.


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## Thaeon (Oct 28, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> If they were "barely relevant when they came out" in 1989, then why does this thread exist some 30 odd years later?



Because THIS sort of reactionary assholery is Bach’s legacy. He’s a talking head. He’s more important as a comedy routine than he is as a musician.


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## ArtDecade (Oct 28, 2022)

Clearly Bach is the father of @Thaeon and he never once sent him a Christmas present from the road.


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## creepymcpeepers (Oct 29, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Clearly Bach is the father of @Thaeon and he never once sent him a Christmas present from the road.


Hahahahahahaha


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## Thaeon (Oct 30, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Clearly Bach is the father of @Thaeon and he never once sent him a Christmas present from the road.



A) Bach isn’t old enough to be my dad. 2) I’d be in jail for homicide if he was. Dude talks like he needs to convince everyone around him how much of a badass he is. To the point that people can’t fucking stand the continuous river of diarrhea flowing from his face anus. He’s a fucking clown. He’s been a clown since the 90s. He’s clearly miserable and needs to make himself feel better by tearing others down. I don’t give a shit what an artists’ work was if they’re a shit person. Do I think Ronnie was any better in this situation? No. Twitter battles are the equivalent of two people hurling insults at each other on the bus ride home during middle school. Great for my entertainment. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad all three of them went off. It was a blast watching all of them go off the rails and look like idiots. Do I think that FiR had any excuse for not playing? No. If you’re dependent on computers, that’s fine. Have a backup, and keep the backup on a person. Not next to the original machine. That renders one of the main points of having a backup entirely moot. Trunk and Bach making claims about reliance on technology for a show shows how absolutely out of touch they are with what happens with modern bands and how they tour. The tech isn’t the problem. Where the backup was secured was the problem. Not having a computerless solution ready may be a problem. Trunk and Bach making baseless claims about reliance on tech and tracks is a problem considering bands have been using MIDI for this sort of thing for over 40 years live. Queen did it. Depeche Mode does it. Nine Inch Nails does it. Where’s the ridicule for those bands for using tracks…. Both of them opened their mouths without thinking about what they were saying first. Defending any of this circus is ridiculous. Only point I ever cared about making is that the tech isn’t the issue. It actually enables bands to make the shows that much better when utilized correctly, and can save bands money when they’re on small tours. It should be used because that’s the sort of thing that is going to keep bands on the road. Dragging all that equipment around the world is expensive. If I could get off of the stage amps and have a couple guitars and a small pedalboard, I’d absolutely do it. I hate moving heavy ass gear and worrying about people trying to steal it at gigs.


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## BillK (Oct 31, 2022)

warhead said:


> Man, stop being so reasonable. Nobody wants to hear that shit. You must be a boomer, surely, living in the past, hating progress.....
> But irony mode off, yeah, I thought it was quite clear what the boomers hold against the band in question.
> Honor the commitment and do your job, ffs. Bands on tour bring spare guitars with them, drum skins...hell.......even strings...so how couldn't they have a backup for something as crucial in making their concert happen as their laptops?


Man, back on my band days, I was playing small to mid venues, I have played for 20 up to 400-500 people, you know local underground scene and I (and rest of the guys) was even had pack up strap, just in case the one was breaking or whatever. We had backup guitars, pedals, strings, batteries bla-bla-bla... I mean it wasn't even our day job and we were better prepared from these shitbags??


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## TheBlackBard (Nov 8, 2022)

Stryper Used Battery-Powered Practice Amps for Live Show After Power Went Out


'Well, that was a first!'




www.ultimate-guitar.com





Stryper had to perform their concert on November 5th in West Hollywood, California with limited equipment, as the power went out 30 minutes before their set at the Whisky A Go Go club. They handled the situation with two battery-powered practice amps, one snare drum, and three band members singing a cappella. Last Sunday (November 6th) frontman Micheal Sweet shared an Instagram post that included the following:

"Well, that was a first!
"The power went out on Sunset last night 30 minutes before our set and we went out on @thewhiskyagogo stage and rocked with 2 battery powered practice amps, 1 snare drum and 3 acapella vocals to a second night, sold out crowd!
"You can't stop The Rock.
"The power came back on 30 minutes after our set.
"What an amazing night and we love you all!!!
"It was one for the books……
"The light always shines in the dark".

Electricity went out, band had a solution. Laptops get stolen, do jack shit.

Laptop getting stolen is a poor excuse.


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## wheresthefbomb (Nov 8, 2022)

^Doesn't hurt to have Jesus on your side.


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## creepymcpeepers (Nov 8, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> Stryper Used Battery-Powered Practice Amps for Live Show After Power Went Out
> 
> 
> 'Well, that was a first!'
> ...


Man but this band is from the 80 man they don’t rely on impulse responses and all that fancy Smancy shit


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## kamello (Nov 9, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I remember when the rockers used to be United
> What has happened to us?


nope, don't remember


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## TheBlackBard (Nov 9, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> Man but this band is from the 80 man they don’t rely on impulse responses and all that fancy Smancy shit



So they know how to play, that's what you're saying.


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## creepymcpeepers (Nov 9, 2022)

TheBlackBard said:


> So they know how to play, that's what you're saying.


I don’t even like stryper


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## TheBlackBard (Nov 9, 2022)

creepymcpeepers said:


> I don’t even like stryper



Right, so... they know how to play... is what you're saying.


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## ShredmasterD (Nov 9, 2022)

next we will be debating when a "band" says their A.I drummer caught a virus and will miss several shows until they figure out what 's Bugging him/ it /them shuz/ bot/ they


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## Spaced Out Ace (Nov 9, 2022)

If you can't play live without backing tracks, then stop touring. This includes KISS, Motley Crue, Leppard, etc.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Nov 9, 2022)

ShredmasterD said:


> next we will be debating when a "band" says their A.I drummer caught a virus and will miss several shows until they figure out what 's Bugging him/ it /them shuz/ bot/ they


AI Drummer pronouns are: Shuz bot/Nanu Nanu.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Nov 9, 2022)

Thaeon said:


> A) Bach isn’t old enough to be my dad. 2) I’d be in jail for homicide if he was. Dude talks like he needs to convince everyone around him how much of a badass he is. To the point that people can’t fucking stand the continuous river of diarrhea flowing from his face anus. He’s a fucking clown. He’s been a clown since the 90s. He’s clearly miserable and needs to make himself feel better by tearing others down. I don’t give a shit what an artists’ work was if they’re a shit person. Do I think Ronnie was any better in this situation? No. Twitter battles are the equivalent of two people hurling insults at each other on the bus ride home during middle school. Great for my entertainment. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad all three of them went off. It was a blast watching all of them go off the rails and look like idiots. Do I think that FiR had any excuse for not playing? No. If you’re dependent on computers, that’s fine. Have a backup, and keep the backup on a person. Not next to the original machine. That renders one of the main points of having a backup entirely moot. Trunk and Bach making claims about reliance on technology for a show shows how absolutely out of touch they are with what happens with modern bands and how they tour. The tech isn’t the problem. Where the backup was secured was the problem. Not having a computerless solution ready may be a problem. Trunk and Bach making baseless claims about reliance on tech and tracks is a problem considering bands have been using MIDI for this sort of thing for over 40 years live. Queen did it. Depeche Mode does it. Nine Inch Nails does it. Where’s the ridicule for those bands for using tracks…. Both of them opened their mouths without thinking about what they were saying first. Defending any of this circus is ridiculous. Only point I ever cared about making is that the tech isn’t the issue. It actually enables bands to make the shows that much better when utilized correctly, and can save bands money when they’re on small tours. It should be used because that’s the sort of thing that is going to keep bands on the road. Dragging all that equipment around the world is expensive. If I could get off of the stage amps and have a couple guitars and a small pedalboard, I’d absolutely do it. I hate moving heavy ass gear and worrying about people trying to steal it at gigs.


What it really comes down to is this:

Which is worse: possibly killing someone and/or throwing a mic stand in a woman's face

Or...

AIDS kills... shirt? (What else can we lob at Bas? He's a twat.)

(All of it is awful, I just want the Thunderdome of internet opinions to rage and determine which of those is worse. Carry on.)


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