# Is using Dunlop Jazz IIIs cheating?



## maskofduality (Oct 8, 2006)

I just bought a pack today after hearing so much about them. Although they are probably thickest picks I have ever used, I find that it is generally easier to pick a quick or even sustained flurry of notes then with the picks i've previously been using (Planet Waves 0.99 mm). 

Playing with these jazz IIIs could potentially "spoil" my picking hand.

After realizing this, I began to wonder, would it be better to just abandon all other types of picks and stay loyally to jazz IIIs or should I keep doing all my exercises and practices with the planet waves picks?


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## Code001 (Oct 8, 2006)

I've actually found the Jazz IIIs make you work harder at the beginning, but ultimately improve your technique.


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## Nik (Oct 8, 2006)

Are you calling John Petrucci a cheater?  

If you like how they feel and it's easier for you to play with Jazz IIIs, then I don't see why you shouldn't stick with them. When I first got Jazz IIIs, I felt much more comfortable doing solos, but the pics were harder for rhythm and pinch-harmonics. I'm used to it now and use them 100% of the time, amazing picks


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## Mastodon (Oct 8, 2006)

I bought a couple of Jim Dunlop 3.0mm Big Stubbies 2 weeks ago.

I always wanted that thickness and thought it would be wonderful.

They're a really good quality pick, and it's amazing for sweeping, but for the most part it made me feel disconnected with the string and felt clumsy to me.


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## NewArmyGuitar (Oct 8, 2006)

If they help your playing, I'd say use them. I love Jazz IIIs.


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## Drew (Oct 8, 2006)

I have no trouble going back and forth - if anything, they force you to be more accurate.


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## maskofduality (Oct 9, 2006)

lol thanks for the encouragement guys... I've been playing them exclusively since 11pm and they don't feel as cumbersome as the planet waves picks.

@Nik: JP is my favorite big name guitarist haha


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## Leon (Oct 9, 2006)

Drew said:


> I have no trouble going back and forth - if anything, they force you to be more accurate.


+1
they force you to be accurate, and also to learn new techniques. you can't use the same "hold" on the pick in all different styles, so you have to learn how to hold the pick less firmly for different things.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 9, 2006)

The problem with Jazz IIIs, and all those shiny-type picks, is that they tend to be slippery to guys like me who have sweaty hands.

Hence, why I always use txtured picks, like the Dunlop Ultex. (Which I also adore, BTW  )


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## Leon (Oct 9, 2006)

have you tried any of that gooey shit? 

you know, like that Gorilla Snot stuff, that you put on picks to make them tacky?


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 9, 2006)

Leon said:


> have you tried any of that gooey shit?
> 
> you know, like that Gorilla Snot stuff, that you put on picks to make them tacky?


Yuck! 

No need to. I like, no... I LOVE the Ultex picks. I have no desire to change. I didn't even like the feel of Jazz IIIs, let alone the slipperyness factor. Ultex picks just don't slip period for me. They're great! *Gush*

Gorilla Snot, lol. No thankee, Sai.


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## Ancestor (Oct 9, 2006)

I'm dependent on the Dunlop Delrins. No one carries them. 

Called Seminole Music, "No, we can order them... I think." "Can you make sure, because I live in a different city." "OK, let me check. Give me your number and I'll get back with you." No call.  

Tried Guitar Center, "Oh, duh... they stopped making those."  

I called Dunlop and was promptly shipped two fresh, crisp bags of 2.0 Delrins. They totally kick ass, but no one knows about them, because these jack-off stores stopped carrying them.

Oh, yeah, and on topic... there's no such thing as cheating, IMO, just do whatever works best for you. Why deliberately hamper your playing?


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## Metal Ken (Oct 9, 2006)

i used to work at that first jack off store 

I called people back though. hehe. They only got my picks in cause i told them to.. every order. and i bought them all.


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## Leon (Oct 9, 2006)

that sucks! i loved those Jemsite Delrins that we had made, but man, those tips just wear out too fast for me.


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## Nik (Oct 9, 2006)

The Dark Wolf said:


> The problem with Jazz IIIs, and all those shiny-type picks, is that they tend to be slippery to guys like me who have sweaty hands.
> 
> Hence, why I always use txtured picks, like the Dunlop Ultex. (Which I also adore, BTW  )



You could always drill them.

When I first started out, I used the Fender medium picks that came with my first guitar  They were the most difficult picks to hold on to... ever. Shiny, slippery, and really thin. At least the Jazz III's thickness makes them easier to hold on to.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 9, 2006)

Nik said:


> You could always drill them.





The Dark Wolf said:


> No need to. I like, no... I LOVE the Ultex picks. I have no desire to change. I didn't even like the feel of Jazz IIIs, let alone the slipperyness factor.


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## nitelightboy (Oct 9, 2006)

I'm a hardcore J-III user. Nice heavy pick for some hard hitting riffs, although I initially had trouble when I was first learning to sweep. Once you learn how to hold it correctly for a sweep, then it's a great all around pick.


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## Shaman (Oct 9, 2006)

I have played Jazz III's for years now, and while I can still play with "ordinary" picks, Jazz III's suit my style of playing like no other.

I think that Jazz III's are very unforgiving picks. I mean that they have a very bright attack which doesen't hide your mistakes. That's why I like them so much. They make you play more accurately.

But, of course this is only a subjective thing...


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## maskofduality (Oct 9, 2006)

Shaman said:


> I have played Jazz III's for years now, and while I can still play with "ordinary" picks, Jazz III's suit my style of playing like no other.
> 
> I think that Jazz III's are very unforgiving picks. I mean that they have a very bright attack which doesen't hide your mistakes. That's why I like them so much. They make you play more accurately.
> 
> But, of course this is only a subjective thing...



Based on my playing of them lastnight, i feel that there is some truth to all of these "forced to play more accurately" comments. In making my picking hand feel less encumbered, I'm forced to exercise more control and not pour all the strength I have just to make a decent picking effect. 

I still need to get used to holding them though. Every now and then i found myself gripping them too tightly (much to my thumb's dismay).


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## Shaman (Oct 9, 2006)

maskofduality said:


> Based on my playing of them lastnight, i feel that there is some truth to all of these "forced to play more accurately" comments. In making my picking hand feel less encumbered, I'm forced to exercise more control and not pour all the strength I have just to make a decent picking effect.
> 
> I still need to get used to holding them though. Every now and then i found myself gripping them too tightly (much to my thumb's dismay).



Yeah, they are something to get used to  

But once you do


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## zimbloth (Oct 9, 2006)

I love Jazz IIIs for everything except the low B string. They dont seem to really grab the string and get as good palm-mutes or attack on them. If they were just a little thicker (like closer to 2mm) they'd be perfect for me. I've been using the black 2mm Gator Grips for some years (i dont like how they sound stock, they need to get _slightly_ worn to get their sweet spot), but recently I've been trying the Dunlop Big Stubby 2mm ones and those are great too.


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## tehk (Oct 9, 2006)

I'm not sure when I started using Jazz III's (it was a while ago). But I haven't been able to use a "normal" shaped pick ever since. The shape of the Jazz III's are amazing, and extremely comfortable. However, I also started using the Stubby's (2.0, and 3.0) and its little difficult for me to use the Jazz III's! But its do-able. 

As for the cheating part.. Nah. When it comes down to it, you should embrace whatever is the most effective for your playing. Don't let other factors limit you to using/playing something that's uncomfortable/uneffective because its "the right thing to do".


P.S. I wish the stubby's were available in more colours..


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## the.godfather (Oct 9, 2006)

I'm another Jazz III user. Have been using them for over a year now, and I wouldn't change them for anything. I was never 100% comfortable in what picks I used before, but then I got some Jazz III's and I havent looked back since. I LOVE them. Both the black and the red ones too. I could still play with "normal" picks quite easily, but I feel much more comfortable when I play Jazz III picks. So basically, its what you feel comfortable with.


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## maskofduality (Oct 9, 2006)

the.godfather said:


> I'm another Jazz III user. Have been using them for over a year now, and I wouldn't change them for anything. I was never 100% comfortable in what picks I used before, but then I got some Jazz III's and I havent looked back since. I LOVE them. Both the black and the red ones too. I could still play with "normal" picks quite easily, but I feel much more comfortable when I play Jazz III picks. So basically, its what you feel comfortable with.


what's so different about the colors? do the red ones have a different feel/ effect from the black one?


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## Nik (Oct 9, 2006)

maskofduality said:


> what's so different about the colors? do the red ones have a different feel/ effect from the black one?



I think they're made out of different materials... ? I read somewhere that the red ones last longer. I think the red ones grip better, too, but I dunno. I use black, myself.


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## jaredowty (Oct 9, 2006)

+10000
Jazz IIIs own, especially the black ones (just cuz they're black).


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## Mark. A (Oct 10, 2006)

Black Jazz III's all the way!


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## nitelightboy (Oct 10, 2006)

maskofduality said:


> what's so different about the colors? do the red ones have a different feel/ effect from the black one?




The black ones feel "stickier" although they usually slip right out of my hands. The reds are smoother, but I can't remember ever having lost one when the heat was up. Plus the red ones look cooler with a black guitar


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## Desecrated (Oct 10, 2006)

Man I hate this site, now I have to go to the store and buy some jazz III just to see if they are as good as everybody says.


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## StevieHimself (Oct 10, 2006)

I played a JazzIII pick during a studio session back in 2000 when I dropped my "regular" pick in the middle of a solo I was recording. I noticed my accuracy and speed improved dramatically, so I went back and re-cut all my solos that afternoon with the JazzIII. I've used them ever since.


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 10, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Man I hate this site, now I have to go to the store and buy some jazz III just to see if they are as good as everybody says.


I don't think so. I did the same thing.  After a few days, I was like, WTF?  What's up with these things? I used them off and on, home and at practice, for a couple of weeks, then said fuck 'em. 

They're not god awful, but not even close to the pick holy grail (for me) like they seem to be for so many people. The Ultex picks on the other hand...


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## nitelightboy (Oct 10, 2006)

You just have to be different TDW...Why can't you conform just like everyone else?


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## The Dark Wolf (Oct 10, 2006)

nitelightboy said:


> You just have to be different TDW...Why can't you conform just like everyone else?


Hey. I'm an individual... just like everyone else.


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## rifftrader (Oct 12, 2006)

nitelightboy said:


> I'm a hardcore J-III user. Nice heavy pick for some hard hitting riffs, although I initially had trouble when I was first learning to sweep. Once you learn how to hold it correctly for a sweep, then it's a great all around pick.



I found that too.


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## Vince (Oct 12, 2006)

Jazz IIIs are the only picks I'll use for electric guitar. Going from normal picks to Jazz picks really tightened up my playing, I don't see how it could possibly 'spoil' your playing at all. They make you think more about your playing, initially, because they require less effort to get across the string, and being so thick, they really power through a string.

I'll say this, I've been a Jazz III user since about 1998, and in that time, I think I've broken one maybe two strings. The Jazz picks just tightened up my playing to the point where I don't really have to hit the strings all that hard to get the sound I want.

I wouldn't use them on acoustic or bass though. On bass, using a jazz pick will make your thumb tendons & muscles sore, and on acoustic, I'm definitely all for thinner flimsy picks that really just drag across the strings. That produces a nice high-end to the sound IMO.


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## Pauly (Oct 16, 2006)

Another J-III user, wouldn't dream of using anything else, gotta be the black ones though!


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## Vegetta (Oct 17, 2006)

I've been using the red 1.0 mm ones since the late 80's- They black ones are made out of different material and are a bit gritty (and taste god-awefull to boot ) 

I dont own any regular picks 9Well i have a green tortex if got from Chris degarmo at a queensryche show)


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## LeperMessiah47 (Oct 22, 2006)

I love the Jazz III picks!!! At first I was little turned off by them because they're so small but then when I noticed that when I usually a regular size pick, I don't really use half of it so I might as well just use the Jazz III pick because it's all the pick I'll need. But I disagree with the ryhtm and pinch harmonic comment, about how it harder. i found to be way easier (in fact, they both improved significantly)


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## distressed_romeo (Oct 22, 2006)

Don't use anything else on the electric, and I've tried pretty much everything else in the past. The only other picks I'll use are thumbpicks for alternate bass stuff on the acoustic, and normal 0.73mm ones for strumming.


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## 777 (Oct 25, 2006)

Desecrated said:


> Man I hate this site, now I have to go to the store and buy some jazz III just to see if they are as good as everybody says.



+1

god i hate you guys now i gotta try out these picks you guys suck  
i just ordered a bulk bag of steve vai ibanez picks

assholes


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## philkilla (Nov 2, 2006)

I was an advocate of Ultex's for a while, than after reading from different sources the ''love'' of Jazz III's, I had to try it out.

Tried the red ones first, and they had a tendency to fly out of my hand. I went back to Ultex's. Than I tried the black ones, and that pretty much sealed the deal. I still carry both ultex's and Jazz III's though. 

The Jazz III's really came through for heavy riffing and speed picking for me. Although I don't sweep, I'm sure they would work quite well for that too.


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## E Lucevan Le Stelle (Nov 21, 2006)

I like Jazz IIIs better than normal picks, but my Big Stubby 3.0mms just crush everything else I've ever tried (and yes I've given the Jazz IIIs a chance, I've TRIED to fall in love with 'em like everyone else has...but the 3mms just blaze).


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## god_puppet (Nov 21, 2006)

I like the jazz III's but im also a huge big stubby 3.0mms user. Probably use them most


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## JPMDan (Nov 24, 2006)

I used to swear by Clayton USA's .80mm and 1mm for their pointy tip that makes sweet pinch harmonics. But ever since I got Jazz III's I havent looked back at all.


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## whatthe17 (Dec 5, 2006)

Just got a 6 pack the last time I was at the music store. I have several in my list at Musician's Friend for my next order. Swear by Em! Michael Angelo Batio was the first person I heard recommend them on his video and then of course John Petrucci on his Rock Discipline Video.


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## kmanick (Dec 6, 2006)

I was using Jazz III's for a while ( I went crazy buying all these different pics, gotta love ebay!)
and I liked them but they were just a little too small for me. 
Someone over on the JCF mentioned that dunlop put out a JAzz III XL so I had to try it.
It's a Jazz III that is right between a standard sized pic and the Jazz III
it's freaking perfect. I finaly found my pic of choice.
anyone who likes the Jazz III but sometimes feels it's just a bit too small needs to try these.
Now I've go to order a big lot of them so I never run out
I got the black ones here's a link so you can see the size difference (and order some if interested) these guys delivered pretty quickly.
http://www.bigcitystrings.com/pj3.htm


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## charles22880 (Dec 12, 2006)

Jazz 3's all the way here, my personal fav pick ive ever used and wont use anything else.


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## SnowfaLL (Dec 12, 2006)

I finally tried them too like last week jamming with a dude who has like 50... they were surprisingly good.. Made me go alot faster..

That being said, I only bought 2 and I think my brother lost one =/ and my other is in my wallet upstairs, so I still play with normal picks. I dont see any problem switching back and forth, actually I find they both have different advantages, because with the J-II's I cant get the bends/flicks/phrasing I want, and with my tolex .60s I cant get as much speed.. I guess I'll have to try a jazz III


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## JJ Rodriguez (Dec 12, 2006)

I used to play 3.0 big stubbies forever, then jazz stubbies, then went to Jazz III's because the grip was a lot better. I had never heard of that Gorilla Snot stuff, I'll have to get some and go try my beloved jazz stubbies again.


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## Nik (Dec 12, 2006)

NickCormier said:


> ...because with the J-II's I cant get the bends/flicks/phrasing I want...



You bend with your pick?  

As for phrasing, keep in mind it takes a while to get used to it, but with practice, one pick should not offer advantage over another in terms of phrasing.


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## Leon (Dec 12, 2006)

i've reconsidered.

Jazz III's = guitar cheat mode


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## SnowfaLL (Dec 12, 2006)

Nik said:


> You bend with your pick?
> 
> As for phrasing, keep in mind it takes a while to get used to it, but with practice, one pick should not offer advantage over another in terms of phrasing.



I do really crazy bends that require a certain attack from the pick, and when I dont have all the excess pick hanging out with my bigger picks, I cant really hit the string with the edge of it like I normally do... so sometimes I miss hitting the string..

Watch Marty Friedman's picking style, you'll see what I mean by using a different attack to get a certain tone out of the bend, rather than a normal pick stroke then bending

Just gonna take me some time to get used to not having so much pick hanging out.. But before I can do that, Im waiting for my store to stock some Jazz IIIs.. they only have Jazz IIs =[[


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## Nik (Dec 12, 2006)

NickCormier said:


> I do really crazy bends that require a certain attack from the pick, and when I dont have all the excess pick hanging out with my bigger picks, I cant really hit the string with the edge of it like I normally do... so sometimes I miss hitting the string..
> 
> Watch Marty Friedman's picking style, you'll see what I mean by using a different attack to get a certain tone out of the bend, rather than a normal pick stroke then bending
> 
> Just gonna take me some time to get used to not having so much pick hanging out.. But before I can do that, Im waiting for my store to stock some Jazz IIIs.. they only have Jazz IIs =[[



Ah, OK I see what you mean.

Still, if you started using the Jazz IIIs exclusively, I'm sure that these 'issues' would disappear in a week or two. It's all a matter of getting used to it.

For example, when I first started using Jazz IIIs, leads were a breeze. However, I hated how they felt for rhythm-playing, and I just couldn't nail those damn pinch-harmonics like I used to with the huge, flat Fender picks I used to use.

However, I kept using Jazz IIIs exclusively, and now I have no problems with pinch harmonics and I'm just as comfortable playing rhythm with them as I was with my older picks.

IMO, resorting to using different picks because of the comfort factor is a bad idea because it 'polarizes' your technique. The only reason I'd consider using different picks is for the different tones you can achieve. Anyway, whatever works for you man


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## SnowfaLL (Dec 12, 2006)

I know, im gonna try going to all jazz IIIs.. but theres no IIIs in my city right now, only IIs.. =[


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## Nik (Dec 12, 2006)

NickCormier said:


> I know, im gonna try going to all jazz IIIs.. but theres no IIIs in my city right now, only IIs.. =[



 

Good luck!


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## OzzyC (Dec 12, 2006)

NickCormier said:


> I know, im gonna try going to all jazz IIIs.. but theres no IIIs in my city right now, only IIs.. =[



if your really desperate to try them you could order online


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## Nats (Dec 12, 2006)

this thread made me so curious that i went to sam ash after work and bought a pack of these. even with the whole getting used to the feel and size of this pick, i think it straight up smokes any other pick i've ever used. yay SS.org


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## SnowfaLL (Dec 12, 2006)

OzzyC said:


> if your really desperate to try them you could order online



Ehh nah, they will come.. like I said, My jamming buddy on saturday had like 50, thats where I tried them the first time.. He wouldnt give me one tho lol but then again I didnt ask.. we'll see lol hes the dude who works at the store and I went in to pick some up and they didnt have any IIIs and he was like "wow im gonna go complain til they order some".. And he ordered me a 7 string there before just because they didnt have any so I expect some IIIs when I go in tomorrow lol


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## Azyiu (Dec 12, 2006)

Jazz IIIs have been the ONLY picks I ever use since the mid-90's. I simply cannot do anything with it.

BTW, someone mentioned Petrucci also uses them. I didn't know he does, that's awesome.


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## sevenstringdeath (Dec 12, 2006)

i use stubby 2.0's FTW


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## Vince (Dec 13, 2006)

What Vince uses when he's not talking in 3rd person:


Jazz IIIs - All I play on electric guitar
Dunlop Tortex 1 mm - All I play when I play bass (I'm not a finger-picking guy)
Dunlop Mediums - My pick of choice for acoustic guitar. Enough give for a beautiful strum from them and they're still thick enough for more articulate and/or aggressive playing if needs be

None of that is cheating. They're all tools of the trade


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## Drew (Dec 13, 2006)

Nats said:


> this thread made me so curious that i went to sam ash after work and bought a pack of these. even with the whole getting used to the feel and size of this pick, i think it straight up smokes any other pick i've ever used. yay SS.org



 They do kind of rule. 

Jazz II? I've never ebven heard of those. What's the difference?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Dec 13, 2006)

Jazz II's have a rounded edge


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## SnowfaLL (Dec 13, 2006)

well, went to the store tonight and they had some IIIs.. picked up 4, I been using the II's all week so im pretty close to my natural playing now with the IIIs, but its still kinda too small sometimes, Guess I will have to work on it.

I dont see much of an advantage though, other than less pick edge hanging out to hit random strings, if you can call that an advantage


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## TMM (Dec 14, 2006)

The Dark Wolf said:


> The problem with Jazz IIIs, and all those shiny-type picks, is that they tend to be slippery to guys like me who have sweaty hands.
> 
> Hence, why I always use txtured picks, like the Dunlop Ultex. (Which I also adore, BTW  )



The red ones are slippery, but the black ones aren't. I've been using them for the last 6 years... ever since I happened to find one on the ground, and tried it out. I was like, 'man, I wish I'd found one of these sooner!'


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## Wiz (Dec 15, 2006)

I've been using Dunlop Jazztone 208 for about a year and I can barely use anything else now  They're so awesome. Actually, I do like the stylus pick too, but the jazztone is my main pick.


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## Nick1 (Dec 16, 2006)

J2s suck! J3s all the way!!!!!!!!


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## SnowfaLL (Dec 21, 2006)

After using them for like a week now.. im still kinda undecided.. I still like my normal torlex pics better right now... I just get more pick under my finger to attack the string.. but I'll keep switching back and forth and see what happens


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## Luan (Dec 26, 2006)

I use the Jazz III all the time, even if I play on an acoustic guitar, except for chording on the acoustic.


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## guitarjitsumaster (Dec 26, 2006)

Stubby 3.0's FTW.......but really I like both the jazz III's and stubbies. I have no qualms about using either one, but I definately prefer stubbies for sweeping because they glide across the strings like air. The jazz 3's are not quite as fast as the stubbies but the difference is negligible and the jazz 3's are better for fast picked rythms. IMO opinion these two picks trump everything else out there, and I am quite spoilt I almost dont want to play if I cant find one or the other.


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## Edroz (Dec 26, 2006)

any dunlop tortex sharp users here? i've been using them for about 3 years now... the white 1.5 .mm, i find it hard to use anything else! for anyone who's not sure if they like the jazz IIIs, give 'em a try.


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## Thom B (Dec 26, 2006)

i have to say they are the best i have tryed , I´ve been stuck with´em since 1989 .Then I have to say they tend to get worn out after only a week or so. But still the best pick I´ve ever used


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## cvinos (Jan 2, 2007)

I have been using the Jazz III for quite a while now.

I especially like the strength and how they work for picking.

Find it somewhat hard though to play full chords fast in down or upstrokes, since they are so small. If you really play hard over all strings, you might grind your hand on the strings.


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## OzzyC (Jan 2, 2007)

cvinos said:


> I have been using the Jazz III for quite a while now.
> 
> I especially like the strength and how they work for picking.
> 
> Find it somewhat hard though to play full chords fast in down or upstrokes, since they are so small.* If you really play hard over all strings, you might grind your hand on the strings.*



of course, that problem never occurs if you have good technique


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