# Circle K Strings now selling single bass strings .008p to .254



## ixlramp (Aug 17, 2010)

Including the new .232 .244 and .254 taking you down to C#0 or B00:

Circle K Strings - Single Strings - All tensions,scales, gauges


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2010)

I'm surprised knucklehead didn't post this.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

Ya know, I wanted to. I feel like I've been a bit of a spam bot of late.

I appreciate your sharing that Matt!


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## Customisbetter (Aug 17, 2010)

Just out of curiosity... what is the purpose of a quarter inch thick string?


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> Just out of curiosity... what is the purpose of a quarter inch thick string?



I'd assume you'd need that thick if trying for a B00 (octave below 5th string on a 5-string B tuned bass) on a 34" or 35" scale bass.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

^^^
This.

I am working on an upright that will let me do wicked low tunings with it (below B00). I just gotta know....


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> Just out of curiosity... what is the purpose of a quarter inch thick string?



If you want thinner string that can provide the feel and tightness at the same scale try some Octaveplus strings, he has a .214 that can do B00 no prob.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

Adam said:


> If you want thinner string that can provide the same tension at the same scale try some Octaveplus strings, he has a .214 that can do B00 no prob.



It won't be the same tension - mathematically impossible.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> It won't be the same tension - mathematically impossible.



ask him or try one out for yourself He uses different wrap techniques and core sizes as well. Also my G0 .140 string for the 30" scale begs to differ.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

I have, and they won't.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> I have, and they won't.



The most recent ones? Or the older ones?


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

Whoops I have to make a correction, I meant to say same feel and taughtness as larger strings not tension my mistake.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

It doesn't matter.

In order to get a string to be .214 there are only so many ways to select and wind wire to make it that big. There is no physical way to put as much wire as is in my .254 into a string that is only .214 and mass is the only way to alter tension at any given tuning given the same scale length.

The string may feel stiff but that is far, far different than its having the same tension.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> It doesn't matter.
> 
> In order to get a string to be .214 there are only so many ways to select and wind wire to make it that big. There is no physical way to put as much wire as is in my .254 into a string that is only .214 and mass is the only way to alter tension at any given tuning given the same scale length.
> 
> The string may feel stiff but that is far, far different than its having the same tension.



Look above, I made the correction after realizing my mistake.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

You pay a penalty in having a very stiff string - and the lower you go the more apparent that will be. 

A very rigid string will need light tension or you will end up with inharmonics - my strings can be loose or tight and suffer a good deal less or not at all from this.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> You pay a penalty in having a very stiff string - and the lower you go the more apparent that will be.
> 
> A very rigid string will need light tension or you will end up with inharmonics - my strings can be loose or tight and suffer a good deal less or not at all from this.



I have never had a problem with his bass strings, and have never encountered inharmonics, he made me several different .140 G0 string each stiffer than the last and a lot clearer sounding too with no issues whatsoever.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

What's your scale length?

It'd be cool if you were able to put the O4P G0 and mine side by side to hear if there is a difference - you're uniquely positioned to do this provided its a bass scale length we're talking about here.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> What's your scale length?
> 
> It'd be cool if you were able to put the O4P G0 and mine side by side to hear if there is a difference - you're uniquely positioned to do this provided its a bass scale length we're talking about here.



30", so short scale bass length.

EDIT: Whoops, I tell a lie its 30.2"


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

Too bad - I do standard bass scale length and longer.

It sounds to me as though you are running guitar tensions. A very, very different beast.....

You can't have more than 22 pounds on that string. Jauqo IIIX is about the only bassist I know that runs with tensions that low.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> Too bad - I do standard bass scale length and longer.
> 
> It sounds to me as though you are running guitar tensions. A very, very different beat.....
> 
> You can't have more than 22 pounds on that string. Jauqo IIIX is about the only bassist I know that runs with tensions that low.



Has about he same amount of feel tightness and clarity as my plain old GHS .120 Im using for C1 for the 10th string which is roughly 25lbs according to the calculator I have.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

Here's a list of the other strings on my instrument just to help you get a feel of what I use:
Ab4(.006 custom guitar string)
Eb4(.010 guitar string)
Bb3(.013 guitar string)
Gb3(.017 guitar string)
Db3(.032 guitar string)
Ab2(.042 guitar string)
Eb2(.052 guitar string)
Bb1(.068 guitar string)
F1(.090 guitar string)
C1(.120 bass string)
G0(.140 custom bass string) 
All at 30.2"

EDIT: Whoops I guess it would be useful to list the companies O4P for the .006, elixir for .010-.068, GHS for the .090 and .120, and O4P for the .140.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

Adam said:


> Has about he same amount of feel tightness and clarity as my plain old GHS .120 Im using for C1 for the 10th string which is roughly 25lbs according to the calculator I have.



Inharmonics happen when a string behaves more like a bar (think marimba/xylophone key) than a string. String rigidity and high tension are the culprits.

You can have high tension and avoid inharmonics by having a supple string - exactly the characteristic I aspired to in my strings. It's also the complete opposite objective than the solution you and Garry arrived at, where you wanted to stay in the low tension guitar realm. I'm glad the two of you figured out something useful for you.

For a number of reasons a bass string (on a bass) performs best when it is under more tension than it was made with. Your application is more guitar-like and changes the rules a bit.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> Inharmonics happen when a string behaves more like a bar (think marimba/xylophone key) than a string. String rigidity and high tension are the culprits.
> 
> You can have high tension and avoid inharmonics by having a supple string - exactly the characteristic I aspired to in my strings. It's also the complete opposite objective than the solution you and Garry arrived at, where you wanted to stay in the low tension guitar realm. I'm glad the two of you figured out something useful for you.
> 
> For a number of reasons a bass string (on a bass) performs best when it is under more tension than it was made with. Your application is more guitar-like and changes the rules a bit.



His strings don't give inharmonics or unwanted overtones though, that's one of the great things about his strings. I never said that my G0 string has the same tension though, it feels as taught as my C1 string and has the same clarity Im pretty sure the tension is lower.

But it gives the end result both bassists and guitarists want, clarity and the same feel as their other strings respectively. 

When I was speaking of his .214 B00 string that's referring to his 34-35" bass string. the only "guitar" bass string Im referring to is my .140.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the both of you use different materials and techniques which both yield radically different results.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

I would bet if you ran that .140 up to the 40 pounds of tension that is 'normal' for bass that you'd characterize the performance of that string a bit differently.

A .214 at B00 on a standard scale bass will have the same tension as your .140 has got at G0 on your guitar - about 22 pounds. There is exactly one bassist I know that wants to play a bass at such tensions. The rest of the bass playing world is running with tensions that are roughly twice that.

Garry builds low tension stuff. I build high tension stuff that can be played at low tension - pretty big distinction.

EDIT; for grins, tune up your .140 to C1 - 32.7 Hz - and see what it sounds like. I'd be curious to know - that'd put that string at 38.5 pounds of tension.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> I would bet if you ran that .140 up to the 40 pounds of tension that is 'normal' for bass that you'd characterize the performance of that string a bit differently.
> 
> A .214 at B00 on a standard scale bass will have the same tension as your .140 has got at G0 on your guitar - about 22 pounds. There is exactly one bassist I know that wants to play a bass at such tensions. The rest of the bass playing world is running with tensions that are roughly twice that.
> 
> ...


At this point it would be better for you to talk to Garry regarding how his strings work: octave4plus.com A thing to keep in mind he uses custom drawn core wire and you would have to spend some $ to get this made. The core wire is too thick for the standard "ball-ender" machine to put ball ends on it. 
As for the G0 to C1 tuning, it sounds like a pianos C1.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

I use custom drawn wire for core and wraps - nothing new there for either of us. If his core wire is too big for a standard ball ender to make use of then his strings are useless to me. I helped design the first .250+ string (Yves Carbonne has been using them on his fretless 12 Jerzy Drozd). The first two prototypes were dismissed as failures BECAUSE the core wire was too thick. 

I know Garry. He knows me. He doesn't make strings long enough for my bass so it would do no good to pursue that.


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## Adam (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> I use custom drawn wire for core and wraps - nothing new there for either of us. If his core wire is too big for a standard ball ender to make then his strings are useless to me. I helped design the first .250+ string (Yves Carbonne has been using them on his fretless 12 Jerzy Drozd). The first two prototypes were dismissed as failures BECAUSE the core wire was too thick.
> 
> I know Garry. He knows me. He doesn't make strings long enough for my bass so it would do no good to pursue that.



He makes up to 43" scales, if that's not long enough, 60" if he uses his friends winding machine, using his wire of course.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 17, 2010)

Interesting - up to 43" is new.

Garry and I share a mutual disuse - I am glad what he makes works for you.


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## dpm (Aug 17, 2010)

IME the Circle K strings are fantastic, great feel and tone, and they're great to deal with


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## josh pelican (Aug 17, 2010)

.254 is beastly.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 17, 2010)

I'd love to hear that .254 on bass with Q-Tuners in B00.


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## josh pelican (Aug 17, 2010)

While on the subject of Circle K Strings, I recent chucked on a set for my six string bass to string it for G#/Ab standard. Really nice sounding strings. I am quite impressed.


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## ixlramp (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> Ya know, I wanted to. I feel like I've been a bit of a spam bot of late.
> 
> I appreciate your sharing that Matt!



 I posted the news just in case you were feeling that way!


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## ixlramp (Aug 17, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> You can't have more than 22 pounds on that string. Jauqo IIIX is about the only bassist I know that runs with tensions that low.



The tightest string on my 6 string bass is a D'Addario .070 tuned to E1 on a 35 inch scale, that's 19 lbf of tension 

But then, I wouldn't describe myself as a bassist


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## josh pelican (Aug 18, 2010)

Jauqo IIIX is monstrous.


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## knuckle_head (Aug 18, 2010)

josh pelican said:


> Jauqo IIIX is monstrous.



Indeed


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## Hollowway (Aug 19, 2010)

knuckle_head said:


> Too bad - I do standard bass scale length and longer.
> 
> It sounds to me as though you are running guitar tensions. A very, very different beast.....
> 
> You can't have more than 22 pounds on that string. Jauqo IIIX is about the only bassist I know that runs with tensions that low.



I just learned a crap load from Adam and your exchanges. So let me ask you a question - I'm having Tom Drinkwater (Oakland Axe Factory) build me a 10 string that will go C1# to A. We were deciding on a fan scale, and I told him I like light tension (like a typical .009 set) and that I run a .068 for my F# on my 8 strings. So I asked what scale length and string would be ideal for the C1# to maintain as close to a guitar like tone as possible, and he said Garry recommended a 28.5" scale length for the low end, and he could make a C1# to sound guitar like at that scale. Anything longer would start sounding more like a bass. Based on what you know about strings (since I don't know much of what you and Adam were talking about) do you have any insight on that?

EDIT: Crap, in a moment of egocentrism I forgot this thread was about a totally different topic. Sorry about the OT!


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## knuckle_head (Aug 19, 2010)

I think Adam is on the right track with his scale length. He states above that he has a 30.5" scale length which is the length of the Fender Bass VI and Bajo Sexto. I owned (and wish I still did) a Bajo, and still own a 28.5" baritone.

I have to tell you that I am unhappy with E on the 28.5" baritone - that is my personal take, and I wouldn't push lower because of that. I intend to build a 32" instrument that can be either a guitar or bass depending on bridge and string selection to see what that will yield, but I know that 30.5" is a definite improvement over 28.5".

The distinction between bass sound and guitar sound is a combination of electronics and strings gauge. I don't have to explain the difference in electronics - the biggest difference in strings is that guitars hover around 20 to 22 pounds per string. You are going well into the bass realm with C#1 - you will have to expect some bass-like characteristics so be prepared for this.

What would be possible from my side right now would be to have you come by strings you are used to for the treble side and put my stuff on the low side. You'd have to consider your hardware as right now I have only bass-ball-ended stuff (that'll change fairly soon), but everything offered on the Circle K site is available and in stock. 

Garry will give you different gauges than I would suggest as he makes a rigid string and it changes things a bit, but I am happy to help you experiment. That's the reason there is a Circle K in the first place.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 19, 2010)

Have you got any pictures of a standard bass set up with these 200+ strings? Would be interesting to see how much room you have on the fretboard etc.


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## Durero (Aug 19, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> Anything longer would start sounding more like a bass.



A longer scale will only sound more like a bass if you jack up the string gage to create the bass-like ~40 lbs of tension that Skip (Knuckle-head) is talking about.

Otherwise if you want to keep a guitar-like tone down into that low range the general concept is: use a light gage & low tension string with the longest scale length you can handle.

If you have any doubts about this check out the videos of Allan Holdsworth's 36" and 38" scale baritone guitars - he's only tuning down to Bb1 and A1 with them (not the C#1 you're after) but the guitar-like tone is unquestionable.

Allan Holdsworth - DeLap 36 inch baritone

Allan Holdsworth - DeLap 38 inch Baritone


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