# NGD Rusti Guitars Lotus #1 headless



## DirtyPuma (Jul 15, 2022)

Dear forum members,

so far I used this forum only to inform myself about experiences on guitars / companies / builders. Today I decided to post this and it was not an easy decision for me. However, I wanted to provide some information to other members here myself instead of only "taking".

In 2019 I ordered a headless custom guitar from Rusti Guitars. After long waiting time we decided to go for a new prototype of his most recent headless design, the "Lotus". I had my specs pretty much set from the beginning and did not change much.

[…] Frets [were] stainless steel (Jumbo, semi-hemispherical fret ends), fretboard and neck (bolt-on) [were] made from flamed maple (4 thin Wenge stripes in the neck, 9-piece construction). Fretboard [featured] a Lotus-themed inlay and a faded fret-scalloping. Double-action truss rod and 2 carbon-fiber rods [were] incorporated within the neck.

Body [was] made out of highly-figured walnut with a flamed maple top and a Wenge middle-layer. The body [was] partly chambered to make up for the wood weight. The body, neck, and fretboard [were] satin-finished. The top [was] finished in a high-quality blue/natural burst. Cavity covers on the back [were] made from Aluminium and engraved with a Lotus theme and "#1".

Electronics [featured] a small 2-way killswitch, 3-way pickup selector, and push-pull volume knob (coil splitting). Bridge [was] a Sophia 2:92 tremolo bridge with the Global Tuner Pro. Furthermore, 2 stabilizer pins and Drop-Tuner [were] mounted on the guitar. Headpieces [were] ABM single headpieces. Nut [was] a Graphtech nut. Straps [could] be mounted via Dunlop Flush Straplocks.

Included [was] a Quantum Industries gigbag and a set of high-quality tools (screwdriver + allen keys). […]







Total price was 4 800 €, I paid 5 000 € just out of generosity.

Now, here comes the twist: That text actually comes from the description text when I sold that guitar off. After only a couple of months.

Why should I sell off this great looking guitar?

The guitar arrived at my address after a waiting time of 2 years and while I was very happy to finally receive this guitar and obviously hyped by the great looking images of it, it didn't take long until I got my first doubts about this purchase…

First thing I noticed when playing the guitar unplugged was the hefty weight, which was around 3.0 to 3.5 kg and quite a lot for what I expected it to be. I ordered the guitar to be "lightweight". Well, some people would still call it that, but for a headless 6-string this is not really lighweight in my opinion. 

Next thing that popped up was the tremolo. It felt really odd. Pushing down and then letting it go up again felt as if there were 3 distinct phases. I exptected the stabilizer pins to have a certain impact on the trem feeling, but 2 kind of "hard" contact points of the tremolo? This was strange. Well I had a look at the inside and what did I find?




The tremolo was angled compared to the cavity. The builder tried to correct this by putting some small tape in front of one of the pins. However, it did not alleviate the problem. Furthermore, the tremolo was set up incorrectly from the start: The "global tuning wheel" of that trem is supposed to go in both directions. However the cavity was routed / the tremolo mounted in such a way that the tuning wheel was always at one end of the spectrum. Here you can see how the tremolo would be set up correctly (notice the small gap) at the zero point:




Totally unrelated to this, there was a strong buzz when fretting the A and D strings. Brought the guitar to a technician to get the neck relief checked. All fine. Actually, the 3rd fret was not level enough with the other frets or got loose. The technician was able to hammer it into place. The problem was much less distracting then.

I contacted the builder on the trem issues bu to no avail. Acc. to him "all was fine" and there were no flaws from his side. So, I contacted the CSL tremolo manufacturer. He told me how to take that trem apart, try this and that, but in the end I was not able to correct this. The trem manufacturer told me that this must be the fault of the guitar maker then…


This is just the start of the story, have to stop for now. I will continue this soon!


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## ExMachina (Jul 15, 2022)

Well it looks good at least. Shame it was flawed.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 16, 2022)

Part 2:
As mentioned before, the tremolo was not working as expected (and also not as designed due to the incorrect mount / cavity route), so I decided to remove the stabilizer pins for good in order to make the global tuning wheel working as it was supposed to work (having the correct setting at the zero point, compare my last image in the initial post).

But this was just the start of issues I noticed in that guitar. There were recurring drops in sound volume when playing the guitar through an amp and there was no recognizable pattern behind this. So I went back to the guitar tech and had the electronic and pups (pups were humbuckers, "Oracle", handmade / designed and provided by the builder). They checked the guitar, but the issue did not pop up frequent enough to be much noticed in the short time at the shop. But eventually they were able to get the same issue when testing the guitar.

They found out that the issue was a mulfunctioning pickup-selector switch and decision was made to exchange it for a new selector switch. Fine, I thought. Guitar came back to me and issue was indeed not encountered again. Builder was confused how this could ever happen with such a quality switch as the one put into the guitar. However, it happened anyway and it seems the guitar was lacking quality control in that regard.

Well, next thing I noticed relatively quickly is that the guitar sounded very "dead" and I had to adjust any EQ to max settings to get at least a minimal kind of edginess out of the guitar. This meant, trebles had to be turned to the max. And even then the guitar sounded quite muffled via amp.

In order to remedy this issue I thought, "maybe the pups are just not my taste, so let's get something more modern into the guitar". I ordere a set of Bare Knuckle Ragnaroks and had them put into the guitar at the local tech. Sound did change for the better! Unfortunately, not enough to make the guitar any good. Still sounded nothing like an electric guitar should. Imagine you had a tone control which is always turned down all the way.

So, next experiment: I DI'ed the guitar into a preamp / audio interface and ran the input through a spectrum analyzer. I compared the results to what I got my Skervesen 8-string Astilla (also a headless guitar, Bare Knuckle pickups: Mule + Nailbomb). Rusti had the aforementioned Bare Knuckle Ragnaroks inside.

Summary for neck pickups of both guitars, E / A / D strings:



The results showed for all strings and both pickups that the Rusti was very boomy and had nearly no harmonics coming out of the guitar. This made the sound very dark / dead. Especially overdriven the guitar had no edge and palm mutes sounded like "crap" (sorry). What makes palm mutes sound great are the harmonics of them. Without them, you only get a boomy 100 Hz sound, no crispness, no bite, nothing. I even tried to amend this with aggressive EQ-ing and high distortion but it did not improve the matter. The guitar was somewhere seriously flawed and I did not know where or how.

I had the guitar tech also directly wire the pups to the output as a sort of experiment so any issue of the electronics should have been uncovered. However, there was not much of a difference, so I would attribute these tonal qualities to a poor guitar design / build.

Here are also some sound files with the two guitars EQ'ed exactly the same, same signal chain. Amp was a Suhr PT 15 IR, sound was taken via the line-out of the built-in IR. I tried to make the sound of the Rusti as "bright" as possible, this is the result and what it sounds like with another guitar:

Rusti:








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Skerv:








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I think you can hear my problem. But palm mutes was what was distracting me the most. For a modern guitar, this is a must.

In the end I also noticed a lot of other flaws regarding trem cavity design (trem was designed to be free-floating, but actually the trem base plate could not move freely due to cavity design, see images below), a lot of minor aesthetic imperfections (at a price point of 5 000 € this is not acceptable in my opinion). BTW, string action was ridiculously high for a modern guitar, and there was no possible way to adjust this. Neck relief was how it should be (not too much at all) and bridge could not be lowered any more (see images).













Continued in last part…


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 16, 2022)

Part 3:







Final part of the story:
When confronting the builder with all of these flaws I was made fun of and he did not take any responsibility for this. BTW, the guitar was shipped first to some guy who created a demo video of the guitar upon request by the builder. I gave my OK for this and was told that there is no risk for me, only some more weeks (in the end 1 month) to wait for the guitar.

I wrote a small report, listing all the flaws I described here (some images with caption were taken from that) and told him that I will hand this over to my lawyer unless he is going to cooperate in some way. In the end he could NOT offer me to buy back the guitar at 80 % of the price (although close to mint). Although, he offered me to search for a buyer. I would still be the official seller of the guitar. Long story short, the builder just wanted to stay out of this as much as possible and pass over any responsibility.

I would never order any guitar from Rusti Guitars again. They might look good on these Instagram pics, but when having one in hand, I was not able to feel any quality or musicality due to all these flaws. Very negative experience.

While still having my Rusti lying around, I bought a new Suhr Custom Satin Flamed and the difference between the two guitars could not be bigger. The Suhr was 1 000 € less, but it was oozing a feeling of attention to detail and very good quality control. If anyone is interested in how these "semi-hemispherical frets" are: Don't get them, they only distract and make strings much more prone to slip away from the fretboard. There is no positive (only cosmetic) of this feature.

I hope my experience will help some potential reader to not waste 1 500 € (that's my loss in the end, not even taking the additional pickups and tech visits into account) on an Instagram guitar. When comparing my Skervesen to my Rusti, the Skervesen is fully functional, might have some very minor cosmetic flaws, but it just does the job and sounds good (+ lightweight).

Here is my Skervesen for comparison:




Many thanks for reading.


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## NoodleFace (Jul 16, 2022)

Damn that's a pretty damning write up. Sorry you had to deal with this. On the surface it's a beautiful instrument


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 16, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> Damn that's a pretty damning write up. Sorry you had to deal with this. On the surface it's a beautiful instrument



I wished all of this would have turned out differently and it took me many days to realize the whole situation. If you pay that amount of money for a guitar and wait such a long time for it to be finished it is hard to acknowledge that it is not what it should be. So, in the end I would not recommend to order these guitars at all.


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## tian (Jul 16, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I contacted the builder on the trem issues bu to no avail. Acc. to him "all was fine" and there were no flaws from his side.


From this point on I had little hope this was going to turn out well and yep, an unacceptable response all the way through for a 5k euro guitar.

And I ask this out of curiosity and sincerely, do you have any guitars that have survived that close of a forensic analysis?


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## Giest (Jul 16, 2022)

tian said:


> From this point on I had little hope this was going to turn out well and yep, an unacceptable response all the way through for a 5k euro guitar.
> 
> And I ask this out of curiosity and sincerely, do you have any guitars that have survived that close of a forensic analysis?



Please tell me this isn't a serious question.


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## tian (Jul 16, 2022)

Giest said:


> Please tell me this isn't a serious question.


Is or isn't?


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## AkiraSpectrum (Jul 16, 2022)

sorry to hear about your negative experience, that's horrible customer service for such an expensive instrument.

thank you for sharing.


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## RobDobble6S7 (Jul 16, 2022)

Respect for being extremely thorough and not only going through every issue but also posting well-photographed evidence of all of them.


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## SpaceDock (Jul 16, 2022)

IMO the tremolo was the real problem and probably because they had never built this model before. After finding that problem it’s just a runaway calling out every single tiny issue that 99% of others would have ignored.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 16, 2022)

tian said:


> From this point on I had little hope this was going to turn out well and yep, an unacceptable response all the way through for a 5k euro guitar.
> 
> And I ask this out of curiosity and sincerely, do you have any guitars that have survived that close of a forensic analysis?


Yes, the Suhr I mentioned above is pretty much a perfect instrument. I could not point out any flaws on that guitar. Futhermore, from all I heard about this company I would expect great customer service. There is something called "warranty".

For the Skervesen I mentioned there were only some minor cosmetic defects which can happen during woodwork. There happened to be scratches on the single-string headpieces after shipment. However, they promised to switch them out during the free check-up after 1 year (shipment to the workshop and back for free) and so they did. Overall, it was good service from their side. Also, as mentioned, they offer this free check after oke year.

For the Rusti Guitars case here: they even wanted me to pay for the shipment in order to have the issues fixed...

I would not call my analysis here forensic. Most things were pretty obvious. But since I was close to handing this over to my lawyer, I had to document the problems correctly.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 16, 2022)

SpaceDock said:


> IMO the tremolo was the real problem and probably because they had never built this model before. After finding that problem it’s just a runaway calling out every single tiny issue that 99% of others would have ignored.


They are still building the guitar the same way.  Actually, the guitar was 75 % of the time I "had" it with the tech. Greatest issue was the muffled sound, not the trem. Therefore, your assumption is incorrect.


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## nickgray (Jul 16, 2022)

SpaceDock said:


> After finding that problem it’s just a runaway calling out every single tiny issue that 99% of others would have ignored.



5k euro though. I don't know, I think if the builder has the balls to build these fancy ass guitars, they'd better be pristine. Otherwise what's the point?



DirtyPuma said:


> hyped by the great looking images of it



Honestly, this seems to be guitar manufacturing in general. Sell the pretty picture and the specs. Nobody's marketing attention to detail, QC, all sorts of little quirks done the right way.


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## NoodleFace (Jul 16, 2022)

Yeah I mean for 5k I'd expect 0 issues, no matter how forensic the review is. If something happens during shipping that's whatever. But the crooked trem to me would be an instant fail


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## MetalDaze (Jul 16, 2022)

In seeing similar stories posted, the main lesson is never buy the #1 of anything from a small builder.


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## gunch (Jul 16, 2022)

The fact that skerv does that is nuts maybe I DO need to start saving for a raptor or 4ap

Sorry about the Rusti though I know they make very nice “looking” guitars


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## Giest (Jul 16, 2022)

tian said:


> Is or isn't?



Do you NOT own guitars which would pass this kind of "forensic analysis"? At any price point? If not which ones and what was flawed?


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## tian (Jul 16, 2022)

Giest said:


> Do you NOT own guitars which would pass this kind of "forensic analysis"? At any price point? If not which ones and what was flawed?


Of the guitars I do not own, I'm sure there I'm sure there is something that meticulous but of the guitars I do own, nothing is that perfect but I don't expect them to be.

I was legitimately asking what guitars do meet the OP's standards because that would just be interesting to know. Most people describe guitars with lots of hand waving and generalities so it's nice to see well documented thoughts.


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## Ben Pinkus (Jul 16, 2022)

Real shame to hear this! As you say their work look incredible visually. But thanks for the detailed thoughts/experience/review
I was thinking I haven't seen any of these in the wild which so clicked on this with hope of them being good


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## Giest (Jul 16, 2022)

@tian So you haven't looked that critically because you don't have as much concern on the cosmetic points? That's fine, I guess I just figured most people are like me when they get a new guitar, I evaluate it as completely as possible because I think they are super cool and like geeking out over them. It's only well out of my college years that I've been able to afford anything nice at all, so it's a big deal for me to afford more than the absolute basics. Still, I've gone through a ton of the absolute basics in the past and didn't encounter anything this bad. This is a little worse than the color is a bit different or the top doesn't have good figuring to it, OP's guitar is goofed up.

Most guitar makers in my experience have no problem consistently putting out flawless instruments for the dollar (except a lot of custom/semi-custom outfits). Surely crap happens and with the pandemic and economy perhaps some standards have relaxed, but it's not correct to do it. I have a J Custom and a few Prestiges which have no problem blowing the level of workmanship in the OP out of the water. I've had 400$ Jacksons and LTD guitars that would blow it out of the water, and granted they weren't as visually ambitious the QC was on point. I think if you look closely at your guitars you'll be hard pressed to find such glaring faults as holes in the fretboard, specs in the inlays, and misdone binding masking. Let alone the trem issues he's having. Also worth noting how expensive OP's guitar was to boot, I mean we can't say yea it's a turd- but it's a nice turd- just because the builder _tried_.


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## gunch (Jul 16, 2022)

A beautiful turd yes. 

But as far as being dark and inharmonic would that come from the neck and body being so laminated _and _having the extra mass from the trem?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 16, 2022)

Just to make this point clear:

The other 2 guitars I mentioned and compared to the Rusti Lotus (Suhr Custom Modern Satin and Skervesen Astilla 8-string) are on another level to the reviewed guitar.

They have no (Suhr) or only very minor cosmetic (Skervesen) flaws. Nothing anyone would ever object. Furthermore, they are great sounding, very rich in overtones, while the Rusti had none of these sound qualities.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 16, 2022)

gunch said:


> A beautiful turd yes.
> 
> But as far as being dark and inharmonic would that come from the neck and body being so laminated _and _having the extra mass from the trem?


Why the guitar was lacking any harmonics is very hard to tell. I was not able to find strong "wolf notes" on the instrument, but the lack of harmonic content was staggering. Any of my friends were directly able to tell this, although they are no guitar player. 

Mass (neck / guitar / bridge) always plays a role in resonance / formants. Greater mass would usually favor lower frequency content. It might have played a role as well, but many heavier guitars (Les Pauls) do not show this issue. 

In the case of the Lotus I would rather expect that higher frequencies were damped by the material. High frequencies are very effectively dampened by visco-elastic properties of material. Anyway, I have no clue and did not look into the construction too deep.

BTW, I forgot to show another problem with the trem: the string jumped inside the saddles when bending. This was also not very cool... I have a video of the high e jumping in the saddle during a normal full step bend, but cannot upload here easily. In case anyone is interested, I can try.

So as addendum: I would also NOT recommend the CSL trem at all. The drop tuner felt so cheap and gimmicky that I removed it pretty much straight away.


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## Randy (Jul 16, 2022)

No guitar meets the 5k euro standard on build quality alone.


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## jco5055 (Jul 16, 2022)

Yeah, not saying rusti should get a pass, but the main issue overall seems to be the trem, and either the trem isn’t that good or it was just too unfamiliar with rusti he should have spent more time learning it in and out….hell when I go on Sophia’s website I get confused on how it exactly works


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## tian (Jul 16, 2022)

Giest said:


> @tian So you haven't looked that critically because you don't have as much concern on the cosmetic points? That's fine, I guess I just figured most people are like me when they get a new guitar, I evaluate it as completely as possible because I think they are super cool and like geeking out over them. It's only well out of my college years that I've been able to afford anything nice at all, so it's a big deal for me to afford more than the absolute basics. Still, I've gone through a ton of the absolute basics in the past and didn't encounter anything this bad. This is a little worse than the color is a bit different or the top doesn't have good figuring to it, OP's guitar is goofed up.
> 
> Most guitar makers in my experience have no problem consistently putting out flawless instruments for the dollar (except a lot of custom/semi-custom outfits). Surely crap happens and with the pandemic and economy perhaps some standards have relaxed, but it's not correct to do it. I have a J Custom and a few Prestiges which have no problem blowing the level of workmanship in the OP out of the water. I've had 400$ Jacksons and LTD guitars that would blow it out of the water, and granted they weren't as visually ambitious the QC was on point. I think if you look closely at your guitars you'll be hard pressed to find such glaring faults as holes in the fretboard, specs in the inlays, and misdone binding masking. Let alone the trem issues he's having. Also worth noting how expensive OP's guitar was to boot, I mean we can't say yea it's a turd- but it's a nice turd- just because the builder _tried_.


Oh I totally agree every party of this was unacceptable. For 4800€ plus another 200€ bonus, the damn guitar should have been crated and overnighted to best eliminate any chance or excuse for shipping damage.



Randy said:


> No guitar meets the 5k euro standard on build quality alone.


100%. Attention to detail and the "intangibles" like customer service better be out of this world at those prices. And that's what so sketch about these small builders and why people go with established names. Someone will explode onto the scene and then disappear into the mist. Some will even have a great reputation and build stunning guitars but then you blink and are left wondering "Where the eff is my Sherman...?"


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## jco5055 (Jul 16, 2022)

I also just realized, whenever for fun I've just downloaded the Lotus quote from just for basically "window shopping", I was confused why the only tremolo options listed were Hantug, since I'd only seen Lotus models with the Sophia...I wonder if this build made Rusti realize he should stick to Hantug.


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## Giest (Jul 16, 2022)

I've had a few of those Sophia trem blocks before, they are good shit. Sophia technical and customer support is excellent, so if homie didn't get it right I would put money on it not being a problem with specs of the components. They're a very capable engineering outfit, at least from my consumer's experience. I wan't there for this guitar at all of course, so just FWIW.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 17, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> I also just realized, whenever for fun I've just downloaded the Lotus quote from just for basically "window shopping", I was confused why the only tremolo options listed were Hantug, since I'd only seen Lotus models with the Sophia...I wonder if this build made Rusti realize he should stick to Hantug.


Since all guitars so far had the Lotus bridge (with the same routings as far as I can tell), I would rather guess that CSL has some issues with delivery time. The trem itself was from good quality, but I would still not recommend, since the stsbilizer pins and down tuner felt gimmicky AND the string saddles had the lighter strings jump when performing a bend... last point is not a matter of taste, but just bad functionality.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 17, 2022)

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I uploaded a small video showing the "string-bend issue". As you can see here, not all issues came solely from Rusti Guitars. Still, a good QC should have found these issues before shipping the guitar.


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## jco5055 (Jul 17, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Upload files for free - IMG_2859.MOV - ufile.io
> 
> 
> Download IMG_2859.MOV for free from ufile.io instantly, no signup required and no popup ads
> ...


damn I'm surprised you're the first person anywhere I've seen who's noticed this issue with the saddles and strong bending...I guess "boomer bends" are not the type of playing Sophia buyers use haha


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## ExMachina (Jul 17, 2022)

Maybe we can start a thread of members who have had good and bad experiences with small builders. Could be useful to have in one spot.


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## tian (Jul 17, 2022)

ExMachina said:


> Maybe we can start a thread of members who have had good and bad experiences with small builders. Could be useful to have in one spot.


My understanding is that individual threads make them easier to find via Google so it serves more people than just those on the forum. And on the forum there's the search function instead of a megathread of crap builders which would likely explode in size and be hard to parse actual information from.


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## Mboogie7 (Jul 17, 2022)

ExMachina said:


> Maybe we can start a thread of members who have had good and bad experiences with small builders. Could be useful to have in one spot.


I could be mistaken, but I think this was attempted a few years ago and it was just too messy to keep track of.


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## prlgmnr (Jul 17, 2022)

Mboogie7 said:


> I could be mistaken, but I think this was attempted a few years ago and it was just too messy to keep track of.


We should start a thread of people who've had good and bad experiences with threads about good and bad experiences, could be useful.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 17, 2022)

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Since I might not have made this clear enough before, I provided another video of what Rusti Guitars calls a "free-floating" trem setup. You can imagine the not at all great up-bend capacity of that trem setup.

Bridge setup was acc. to the string action in the previous posts, so actually very high...

Just seeing this again makes me feel nauseous.


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## NoodleFace (Jul 17, 2022)

prlgmnr said:


> We should start a thread of people who've had good and bad experiences with threads about good and bad experiences, could be useful.


I had great experience with Bowes


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 17, 2022)

That seems very uncharacteristic of Rusti, although I've never ordered a new custom I do own a Paradox which is an incredible piece that sounds/plays/feels as good as any other high end instrument I own.

My buddy Matt just recently got a Lotus and was equally impressed by it, Rusti should have worked something out for you though because the issues in the build are clearly present. But I feel like some of these things lead to a combination of reasons to cause the problems, having someone demo the guitar before I get it? I wouldn't be so open to that myself because that gives opportunities for bad things to happen.


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## StevenC (Jul 17, 2022)

How thick is that guitar? In one of the pics it looks Les Paul sized or bigger,


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## NoodleFace (Jul 17, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> That seems very uncharacteristic of Rusti, although I've never ordered a new custom I do own a Paradox which is an incredible piece that sounds/plays/feels as good as any other high end instrument I own.
> 
> My buddy Matt just recently got a Lotus and was equally impressed by it, Rusti should have worked something out for you though because the issues in the build are clearly present. But I feel like some of these things lead to a combination of reasons to cause the problems, having someone demo the guitar before I get it? I wouldn't be so open to that myself because that gives opportunities for bad things to happen.


Agree with the last part. The more hands that touch it, the more chance something will happen


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## jephjacques (Jul 17, 2022)

Yeah I'd never agree to let some other dingdong "demo" my custom-ordered guitar before I could get my hands on it.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 17, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> That seems very uncharacteristic of Rusti, although I've never ordered a new custom I do own a Paradox which is an incredible piece that sounds/plays/feels as good as any other high end instrument I own.
> 
> My buddy Matt just recently got a Lotus and was equally impressed by it, Rusti should have worked something out for you though because the issues in the build are clearly present. But I feel like some of these things lead to a combination of reasons to cause the problems, having someone demo the guitar before I get it? I wouldn't be so open to that myself because that gives opportunities for bad things to happen.


Can't talk for any other Rusti Guitars, but since his output is not 100 guitars per year, this one guitar is enough risk for me to never order again and also not recommending to order. As mentioned before, I was not taken seriously by the builder and all responsibility brushed off. The paradox is actually not a very complicated build so room for error here is much smaller. But when making the commitment to build something any builder should be sure that they can pull this off correctly.

I even put more than another 500 € into the guitar after I got it, trying to fix the issues, but there was so much and most of it was not an easy fix. The sound issues and the trem routing / mounting were just horrible. And I was actually quite cooperative and gave my OK to sell off this guitar at financial loss. Anyway, I don't care so much for the money, but only seeing people gushing over these shiny instagram pics makes you reconsider why you did not post any review online. I wished I had such detailed reviews before buying a Rusti.

When I was made fun of via WhatsApp by the builder a line was crossed for me and I wanted to get rid of this thing as fast as possible. No person with a serious business should treat any customer who just paid you quite some money for a guitar that way (and waited two years to have it finished without ever getting pushy).



The guitar was quite thick. I have no measurements at hand but the trem with the flush back-cover made it very thick. That is also what caused the hefty weight for this build. Since I demanded a lightweight build (I even provided estimate numbers, for a builder it should be easy to calculate with the woods and parts at hand), I should have been told that the thickness of the body is not going to allow this.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 17, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Yeah I'd never agree to let some other dingdong "demo" my custom-ordered guitar before I could get my hands on it.



That is true and I admit that I was overly cooperative with this builder. As mentioned before I even paid 200 € on top, for actually nothing. Just to let him know that I value his work on the guitar. However, this was before I received the guitar (it took a month for shipment, because it had to go to that other guy demo'ing it). And that after the 2-year waiting time. Funny, isn't it?

But in the end, the issues I spotted on the guitar were clearly not the fault of the demo guy, so he is not responsible at all. I gave my OK to have it demo'ed, so I was the fool and to blame here. Rusti Guitars wanted to have it demo'ed and I did not find a reason to deny this back then.


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## Alessandro Zilio (Jul 18, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> That is true and I admit that I was overly cooperative with this builder. As mentioned before I even paid 200 € on top, for actually nothing. Just to let him know that I value his work on the guitar. However, this was before I received the guitar (it took a month for shipment, because it had to go to that other guy demo'ing it). And that after the 2-year waiting time. Funny, isn't it?
> 
> But in the end, the issues I spotted on the guitar were clearly not the fault of the demo guy, so he is not responsible at all. I gave my OK to have it demo'ed, so I was the fool and to blame here. Rusti Guitars wanted to have it demo'ed and I did not find a reason to deny this back then.


Hey, Alessandro Zilio 'Demo guy' here, just to give you my point of view.I was aware of your negative experience with that instrument and i was definitely sad to hear that, to clarify i am not affiliated to Rusti or Claudio, the man behind the brand aside from the couple of times he sent over his guitars to shoot some videos.
I received yours and a paradox that time, both needed to be shipped again to their owners, so what i did was i kept the guitars for a bunch of days and shot two short videos mainly to show the instruments. In the limited time i had i just did my thing and shipped them back, i had not much time to inspect it rather that plugging it in and record audio/video so i don't recall noticing stuff that alarmed me, otherwise i would have told him and get that fixed.
In saying that i'm not doubting the issues you had, he actually told me a while ago that it was some faulty electronic component that caused it sounding not very rich as you described, but for a more detailed explanation you should talk to him about the matter.
The point i wanted to make is that, although i get your frustration for the whole experience, and sharing it is very much a right of yours, i just hope this does not get any hate to Rusti since it's easy for things to escalate quickly on the internet, he does what he does for passion working hard and with this being the first time he encountered this many issues with a customer he maybe didn't really know how to handle the situation.
Then, we're humans, mistakes happen all the time and we should own up to them, but i can assure you he's a super kind and genuine guy, so once again i'm sad to see about this situation and i hope you'll be able to move on from this with no hard feelings.
Lastly, @jephjacques it's a bit inappropriate to refer to me as a dingdong lol since i don't think a luthier would ever be such a fool to trust some random guy to ship his instruments to, and of course you don't even know me ahah but that's fine. 
Cheers guys


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

Alessandro Zilio said:


> Hey, Alessandro Zilio 'Demo guy' here, just to give you my point of view.I was aware of your negative experience with that instrument and i was definitely sad to hear that, to clarify i am not affiliated to Rusti or Claudio, the man behind the brand aside from the couple of times he sent over his guitars to shoot some videos.
> I received yours and a paradox that time, both needed to be shipped again to their owners, so what i did was i kept the guitars for a bunch of days and shot two short videos mainly to show the instruments. In the limited time i had i just did my thing and shipped them back, i had not much time to inspect it rather that plugging it in and record audio/video so i don't recall noticing stuff that alarmed me, otherwise i would have told him and get that fixed.
> In saying that i'm not doubting the issues you had, he actually told me a while ago that it was some faulty electronic component that caused it sounding not very rich as you described, but for a more detailed explanation you should talk to him about the matter.
> The point i wanted to make is that, although i get your frustration for the whole experience, and sharing it is very much a right of yours, i just hope this does not get any hate to Rusti since it's easy for things to escalate quickly on the internet, he does what he does for passion working hard and with this being the first time he encountered this many issues with a customer he maybe didn't really know how to handle the situation.
> ...



Hello Alessandro, thanks for your feedback. As I pointed out before the issues I faced should be in no way related to your demo of the guitar. I think you made a good job advertising that guitar, but back then when I re-checked your video on the Lotus the lack of harmonic content was also obvious in the sound of the guitar there. But then again, I think a setup as I did with the spectrum analysis done is much more representative than a "high-gloss produced video".

I can understand that sometimes things go wrong with builds. But in these cases the manufacturer must acknowledge this and correct the faults. That is also what European law states for contracts of services. In my case I was made fun of by the manufacturer via WhatsApp (if anyone is interested, I can share the screenshots via PM) and told that it is a "man-made guitar".

And I agree, it is (apart from CNC and all other things which carve out the basis of these guitars). But I disagree that this is an excuse for putting out such a guitar and then telling the customer that all is OK and that he might have a 2nd look at the guitar, but I have to pay shipment there and back. This is against European law. This is worst customer service. This is why I just took the "easy option" to have the guitar sold at a loss. I could have taken this to court, but it would have cost me time and I did not want to put even more time into an instrument for which I already had to wait two years. 60 % of the price was paid upfront.

And seeing in how the builder did not understand the tremolo, which even I understood after a quick check of the manual, makes me question the "expert knowledge" this guitar builder has. In the end I pay for this knowledge and execution, that is why I chose this builder over another. I was wrong in my choice this time.

And to summarize: what is OK in "someone getting away with making money by making others lose theirs"? Pretty shady business concept. BTW, just as another example: As far as I can see I was also blocked on IG by this "professional vendor of guitars". There was not even a form of apology from the builder's side at any time.


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## Rusti (Jul 18, 2022)

Hey everyone!

I already spoke a long time to my [was] customer so this message is for everyone else. I think you deserve to hear both sides of what went on.

First of all, the Lotus#1 was a prototype for a few reasons:
1) New body shape.
2) First time I’ve mounted Sophia tremolo (which is nothing like any other tremolo out there) on customer’s request.
3) First time i did that type of engraved inlay.
4) First time I did the blue fade over a top.

This is to say that the second Lotus clearly had some improvements, but the prototype was great, and it left here with a great setup, as usual.
I think the detailed pics I always post on my social pages show how much I care about doing my very best on every single guitar, and I the Lotus#1 is no exception.

Customer initially started complaining about some very basic issue like the string action, so I’ve tried to help him via WhatsApp telling him how to set it. The more he was setting it up, the more issues where popping out, to the point I didn’t know what was going on with the neck anymore and i told him to please send it back for a full check-up.

-_ What that means is: If the issues were on my side, I’ll refund the shipment and I ship it back. If the issues were caused by the customer, he pays for the shipments. In both cases i’m fixing\setting-up the guitar for free, because I care about my customers and my guitars.-_

He refused and took the guitar to a tech, disassembled the bridge a few times, switched pickups and apparently had some frets pressed down or leveled.

_- A quick note about fretting. This is a process I go through very carefully (I bet you can tell by looking at my feeds), I know how I do my work and I’m sure there was not need for leveling or pressing. In the last 5 years or so, not a single time a customer told me he needed to level or press down the frets, so I’m pretty sure there was not such a need on a brand new guitar.-_

After this many modifies were made to the guitar, the warranty was nullified. This is what happens when you modify any product covered by warranty.
I could have dropped any responsibility and end the story right there, but not a single time I mentioned the nullified warranty. Instead i offered to pay for the shipment back to me and fix it for free.
Finally got the guitar back.

After a quick check-up, the result was:
1) The potentiometer was very faulty, it was actually cutting out all the frequencies, it took literally 5 minutes to my tech to recognize the issue and fix it. I mount MEC parts, and i honestly believe they're the best i can offer, but a faulty one can happen i guess. Once the pot was replaced the guitar came back to singing.
2) The truss rod needed a setup.
3) I added a new step-slot to the back cavity where the pins could touch the wall simultaneously and parallel to the bridge, making the use of the Global Tuner possible. It was not noticeable after the work was done and the bridge was mounted on.
4) Once the guitar was properly set-up, the bridge’s range of motion was as designed. The contact pins on the Sophia allow for a safe and soft return to the zero\balance point but they also limit the range of motion a little when pulling up the armbar. Once the guitar was properly set-up, the pins were hitting their limit before bridge baseplate would touch the body of the guitar. As designed. On the next Lotus’es I made a deeper cavity though, so that if a customer decide to remove the pins, he would also have the range of motion of a regular Floyd-like tremolo.
5) The body finishing was scratched during the shipping back to me. I refinished it, for free.

I asked him if he wanted the fixed guitar back, but he preferred to sell it, so a new customer that a few days back was at my shop testing a newer Lotus decided to buy it, and he’s now happy with the #1.

One last note: If you order a walnut body you don’t get a light-weight guitar. I’ve added some weight relief to it, but I agree it wasn’t as light as I hoped for. That’s why it’s called prototype. Still very well balanced. The new Lotus are a bit thinner, with bigger weight-relief chambers, and a bigger belly cut.

This is my side of the story, if you wish to tell\ask me anything please contact me via FB, IG or WA.

Have a great day everyone.


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## olejason (Jul 18, 2022)

You probably shouldn't charge full price for a "prototype" using parts you don't fully understand how to install/setup.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

Rusti said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I already spoke a long time to my [was] customer so this message is for everyone else. I think you deserve to hear both sides of what went on.
> 
> ...


Funny how you more or less acknowledge all of the faults I posted here openly. I would say there is nothing more to add.

The fret was actually not level, this was pointed out quickly by the tech, I had string buzzing when fretting the 2nd fret on the A and D strings on day 1. This was a fact and I did not make this up. Once again, you start to "blame the customer" here. The sound level cut off due to the faulty switch, "acc. to you" the potentiometer of the volume knob was broken, the inlay was "not OK" only because you "did not do it before" (?), and the trem was not OK because it "was new" (?).

I am no fan of the blame game, but now that you start (I repeat myself once more, this is how you handled it back then as well and started to blame me and brush things off and make fun of me) this blame game once more, I can only say this:

Given all of this proof I provided, and these are faults on many different levels and many different components / building steps of the guitar, how can there be ANY EXCUSE to ship a guitar off like this? You even mention "this is a thing of 5 min and easily spotted". Well, how was it not spotted?! Why was I ridiculed by you? Why did you NOT BELIEVE these matters? I provided the proof to you the same way as I do here.

Edit: We even tried to solder the pup directly to the output in order to check electronics and issue was not found. So it was definitly NOT a 5 min fix. Also, why does your QC not spot a "5-min fix" on a 5 k guitar?

I state this once more: I lost 1 500 € because I did not want to be betrayed any more / handled badly / wait even longer than the 2 years / lose even more money in the long run and have a 2nd class guitar. No one would have opted differently in my situation. And I was VERY compliant and cooperative. I did not use any swear words or whatsoever. Maybe I should have? Sending the guitar to some workshop in Italy easily costs 300 € with chance of the guitar being damaged, you not acknowledging (again) the faults, saying it is a "man-made guitar" and therefore has its flaws, and in the end not having a good guitar? Who would go for that risk? I was even against selling this guitar, because I felt bad for any person buying this. But then again, you were not even OK with buying the guitar back for 3 500 €. You wanted to stay out of this business and brush off responsibility. This is a SHAME.

I can not see a humble and decent guy as Alessandro said…

Edit 2: Guitar warranty is NOT nullified when changing pups and changing the trem setup (i.e. removing the pins and down-tuner, this is as designed). This is not even about warranty, this is a service contract. You have no clue.

And lastly, you did NOT offer the check-up back then. You made fun of me, told me "this cannot be, I built and checked this, all was OK, no customer before had this, yadayada". Shall I start uploading our conversations in Whatsapp? Is that what you want?

Also, your "detailed pics" are just typical IG pics with lots of photoshop etc. You even mentioned that you photoshop each and every single piece of dust out of these pics YOURSELF. Just to quote what you said. How can anyone trust these images? They are fake.


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## wizbit81 (Jul 18, 2022)

Ok here's my two cents on this.
Declaration of interest just so you know: I own two Rusti's. I own Paradox 4, the first one with the insane figured Koa Tops that everyone else asks him for now. (I actually got the specs idea from an earlier Rusti but changed a few things and badgered him to buy that incredible log that the tops have come from since) and Paradox 6, the 7 string variant. In my custom ordering and build process only Chris from Carillion has been as responsive, helpful, and delivered as good customer service. My two builds are incredible, there are a couple of minor tool marks on one, can't think of anything on the other. Build is certainly up there with the very best, like Carillion or Vik. I know, I have multiple of both of those as well. I also chat to him now and again about other stuff, however I do not shill for him, or push his guitars on social media etc. He's been great, I recall one time when my 7 arrived the previous owner had taken the bridge off for transit!! (a hipshot trem!) I had no idea how to set it up and Claudio talked me through the process over facebook for about 2 hours. 

That's me and my situation, totally separate to yours.

Your situation in a nutshell, changed to a car anology so it makes more sense:

You bought a new Ferrari, you got it home and discovered some things you thought weren't right with it. You contacted Ferrari who offered to have it shipped back to them and any faults rectified at their expense under warranty etc. Caveat, if there were no faults you would pay for shipping. Ok with a Ferrari it would be a lot, but not a lot in this case. Instead of doing that you took your Ferrari to the local garage and let the local guys who didn't build it, probably knew nothing about some of the parts etc. look at it and not only diagnose but take it apart multiple times and carry out unauthorised repair work. You then asked Ferrari to buy it back at 80% of the cost after the local garage had finished with it. 

^^ Do you see how mad that is? There is no way in hell they would buy it back. You didn't follow the process for these things and wildly went off and did stuff, violating the warranty utterly. You didn't give him a chance to look it over, remedy any work etc. Then you came and complained to the world about it.

I don't know about the conversation over Whatsapp of course, so I can't comment one way or another about that. I can however say that what you've actually done, step by step, isn't correct at all.

If it were me as the builder and you did that I'd simply tell you that you violated the warranty and I was unable to help further, as would happen in literally any business. 

Surely to God, anyone knows that if something's not right with something, you send it back to the manufacturer and not get random guys to work on it, THEN try to send it back.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

wizbit81 said:


> Ok here's my two cents on this.
> Declaration of interest just so you know: I own two Rusti's. I own Paradox 4, the first one with the insane figured Koa Tops that everyone else asks him for now. (I actually got the specs idea from an earlier Rusti but changed a few things and badgered him to buy that incredible log that the tops have come from since) and Paradox 6, the 7 string variant. In my custom ordering and build process only Chris from Carillion has been as responsive, helpful, and delivered as good customer service. My two builds are incredible, there are a couple of minor tool marks on one, can't think of anything on the other. Build is certainly up there with the very best, like Carillion or Vik. I know, I have multiple of both of those as well. I also chat to him now and again about other stuff, however I do not shill for him, or push his guitars on social media etc. He's been great, I recall one time when my 7 arrived the previous owner had taken the bridge off for transit!! (a hipshot trem!) I had no idea how to set it up and Claudio talked me through the process over facebook for about 2 hours.
> 
> That's me and my situation, totally separate to yours.
> ...


I did NOT violate warranty in any way? Are you out of your mind? I was in contact with my lawyer and am well aware of regulations here, so this is NOT TRUE. You are clearly taking Rusti Guitar's side for no obious reasons.

If any Ferrari had THESE faults, they would try their best to come personally and get things right, I can promise you.
This is such a ridiculous straw-man argument…

Claudio / Rusti Guitars was downplaying this stuff and not providing any help / offering of check at their site BEFORE I got into contact with the lawyer and presented him / them with the options at hand: Correcting the issues as per service contract OR reimbursal of the paid money. This is all acc. to law. I even gave him a 3-week time-frame to correct the issues, well aware that there is no way he would be able to meet the timeline ALTHOUGH he should be able as per law.

Also, the tech I mentioned is an official PROFESSIONAL workshop, this is not "some random dude" on the street. I wanted everything to be highly official and professionally checked. The hammering-in-place of one fret is by no means changing anything relevantly of the guitar. This is INDEED a "5-min work". You would send it back only for that? At the end of noticing all these issues I knew this could NEVER be fixed in the fashion it should be. He would have to rework the guitar from scratch (i.e. build a new one).

Your reply is actually riciduling my initial post and you disregard any of the issues and the proof thereof I provided in the initial post. This is the "blame game" which I mentioned. You seem to play it as well? Not only Rusti Guitars / Claudio?

I wouldn't even want to have such a guitar "for free" seeing these many flaws. And again, I feel bad for the new buyer of that guitar, maybe he knows less about craftmanship in guitars and technical things. He would never even know these issues. But then again, if he is happy with it… I was definitly not and customer service was so bad I can't recall any comparable case.

P.S.: I did not just go and tell the whole world about this. Actually, I first settled this case, then waited a year to sort things out in my head and cool down / get some distance and be more objective, and only THEN wrote my review in order for it to be as objective as possible. I provided proof wherever I could and did try my utterly best to present things how they were for me as a customer of Rusti Guitars, a business led by Claudio Rustignoli.


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## Gango79 (Jul 18, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I did NOT violate warranty in any way? Are you out of your mind? I was in contact with my lawyer and am well aware of regulations here, so this is NOT TRUE. You are clearly taking Rusti Guitar's side for no obious reasons.
> 
> If any Ferrari had THESE faults, they would try their best to come personally and get things right, I can promise you.
> This is such a ridiculous straw-man argument…
> ...


Sorry mate…how could you call it bad customer service? He offered to take back the guitar for free unless you made some changes on the guitar. He paid for return shipping. He refinished again the guitar and changed the pot! This is what I call great customer service.
I had some issue on my first prs refinish from prs Europe. They not refunded me anything. Prs USA suggested to ship it back in the USA but I had to pay the total cost of the repair!
In other words no one is questioning You was not happy with the final result. 

but you can't say that Claudio tried not to please you. 

He even sold the guitar for you. who else would have done it?


DirtyPuma said:


> I did NOT violate warranty in any way? Are you out of your mind? I was in contact with my lawyer and am well aware of regulations here, so this is NOT TRUE. You are clearly taking Rusti Guitar's side for no obious reasons.
> 
> If any Ferrari had THESE faults, they would try their best to come personally and get things right, I can promise you.
> This is such a ridiculous straw-man argument…
> ...


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> Sorry mate…how could you call it bad customer service? He offered to take back the guitar for free unless you made some changes on the guitar. He paid for return shipping. He refinished again the guitar and changed the pot! This is what I call great customer service.
> I had some issue on my first prs refinish from prs Europe. They not refunded me anything. Prs USA suggested to ship it back in the USA but I had to pay the total cost of the repair!
> In other words no one is questioning You was not happy with the final result.
> 
> ...



Come on, don't you read my posts? HE DID NOT OFFER TO TAKE BACK THE GUITAR AND CHECK IT.

He told me that I am nuts and there is no flaw in this guitar, he "checked it himself". How could I be happy when a manufacturer does not acknowledge issues when I present clear evidence of it and even got a professional workshop to check these issues so that he cannot use the argument "yeah, you're just a crazy customer" anymore?

Furthermore, why should I send a guitar back to the workshop at my own expense (he only offered this AFTER I got in contact with my lawyer), when European law clearly covers this and HE MUST pay for this? This is by no means good service at all. You must be out of your mind and assume everything Claudio writes here is the truth? He is trying to do "damage control" and coming up with stuff which clearly was not the case back then.

Why else should I start to get the pups changed, switches fixed, etc. at my own cost (well over 500 €) when he would offer to correct these things for free? Something doesn't add up here, do you notice?

BTW he did not sell the guitar, he just advertised it. I was the one selling it, he wanted to have nothing to do with it. He was clearly against taking ANY responsibility. If you really want to go into the details, we can start uploading the mails and WhatsApp messages. I thought anyone in their right mind could tell that something must be seriously wrong when seeing this guitar.

Well, but please, go on and believe the words of the guy who shipped a 5 000 € guitar with that amount of issues to a customer after a build time of 2 years.


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## Giest (Jul 18, 2022)

IMO QC is secondary to CS in any case. 

“There's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it over.”


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 18, 2022)

This is pretty simple, the clear contradiction here is that Rusti is saying the following:



> Customer initially started complaining about some very basic issue like the string action, so I’ve tried to help him via WhatsApp telling him how to set it. The more he was setting it up, the more issues where popping out, to the point I didn’t know what was going on with the neck anymore and i told him to please send it back for a full check-up.
> 
> -_ What that means is: If the issues were on my side, I’ll refund the shipment and I ship it back. If the issues were caused by the customer, he pays for the shipments. In both cases i’m fixing\setting-up the guitar for free, because I care about my customers and my guitars.-_
> 
> He refused and took the guitar to a tech, disassembled the bridge a few times, switched pickups and apparently had some frets pressed down or leveled.



And you're saying the above offer was never made, should be very easy to prove from either side if the buyer is that adamant that the offer was never made.

If it was and you refused/got it fixed locally, that's a little different than what is being described. I'd post the conversation if you're both comfortable with that.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

Giest said:


> IMO QC is secondary to CS in any case.
> 
> “There's never enough time to do it right, but there's always enough time to do it over.”



I agree with you that good customer service might have helped a lot in this case. But since I was told again and again that these are no "issues" and all is fine, the guitar was checked and there could be no flaw / I must be using the guitar incorrectly, what would you do? Is that good customer service?

I had cases with other manufacturers and they always did their utmost to help me and provide help. They covered any shipping cost and exchanced materials / products as needed. All acc. to law and to make customers happy. Why should I go to these lengths if someone had been there to help with my case? Furthermore, with this number of issues and kind of issues, how would anyone be able to remedy them? Especially, when taking into account that the one working on them would be the one who caused and did not spot them to begin with?


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## nickgray (Jul 18, 2022)




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## Rusti (Jul 18, 2022)

I'm really not up for sharing personal infos, nor chat logs, nor joining the drama and fighting over a situation i thought was settled (with an agreement) months ago, but for the sake of being transparent, here's what the results for the 'send' word look like on the chat. I blurred out his name.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)




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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

In the screenshots provided above you can clearly see how I was told the guitar is "fine" and just not "my taste" which is different from it being flawed. He did not even consider the guitar to be flawed… I can post some more screenshots it even gets more hairy in the next couple ones…

Edit: Since Claudio started to post screenshots of the chat I thought it might be more transparent to send a cohesive number of messages instead of some random bits. His name is known, so I thought it is not needed to blurr it out… Can edit as wished, just let me know. I wanted to keep things transparent and I am not making up this stuff here. I definitely felt "left alone" as a customer in Germany who got a guitar from a workshop in Italy.


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## tian (Jul 18, 2022)

As entertaining as these sort of train wreck threads are, you two should probably find an arbitrator and go from there...


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

tian said:


> As entertaining as these sort of train wreck threads are, you two should probably find an arbitrator and go from there...


I am not about getting any refund, I just posted my honest review and then am ridiculed once more by the guy who sold me that guitar. And since he started to post these details, I only wanted to set things straight for the record. I am not coming here to "bash people for no reason". I am just providing an honest review from customer perspective. How things went is not my fault. I am the customer. I did my part, I paid the money on time, I was never pushy or tried to get prices down… that is the customer part.


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## StevenC (Jul 18, 2022)

Thread of the year


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Thread of the year


I am sorry that it came so far, but you cannot imagine how it feels to be put in the corner as the one to blame, although you were the one who was at loss… Everything I did here is provide a review of my experience. Then some people come and try to talk my experiences down, shifting the blame…


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## jephjacques (Jul 18, 2022)




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## jephjacques (Jul 18, 2022)

it is up to you, the reader, to decide who is the cat and who is the angry lady


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## Tree (Jul 18, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> View attachment 110915


I fucking love this picture of this cat so much. It will never fail to make me laugh


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## Giest (Jul 18, 2022)

OP you can't just threaten to put a builder on blast over forums and call that "friendly" lol. You should only want to get the problems resolved fairly, being adversarial about it is a totally different objective whether your frustration allows you to realize it or not.

Having had the "nothing is wrong with the guitar (because we already have your money)" speech from more than one custom and semi custom builder, and seeing the photos of all the cosmetic flaws in this instance, I'm not impressed with that either. Luthiers shouldn't be treated like Evel Knievel, IMO you don't just get paid for the attempt. Of course that might depend on how the project was pitched I suppose, but I wouldn't put my name on something which displays such unremarkable workmanship in any case.


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## Matt08642 (Jul 18, 2022)

Whew, 6,580.92 Canadian Dollars for one single guitar.... I get wanting something super custom but I'd rather buy 6 used Prestiges and call it a day


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## bigswifty (Jul 18, 2022)

Definitely didn't expect this thread to unfold the way it did 

Hasn't SSO learned to stay the fuck away from small, boutique, insanely expensive guitar luthiers yet?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

Giest said:


> OP you can't just threaten to put a builder on blast over forums and call that "friendly" lol. You should only want to get the problems resolved fairly, being adversarial about it is a totally different objective whether your frustration allows you to realize it or not.
> 
> Having had the "nothing is wrong with the guitar (because we already have your money)" speech from more than one custom and semi custom builder, and seeing the photos of all the cosmetic flaws in this instance, I'm not impressed with that either. Luthiers shouldn't be treated like Evel Knievel, IMO you don't just get paid for the attempt. Of course that might depend on how the project was pitched I suppose, but I wouldn't put my name on something which displays such unremarkable workmanship in any case.


Just to make this clear: This all happened in 2021. I did not put this to public. Only now after long consideration time I thought my documentation might help future buyers. Sorry it went in this direction in the end. I also must admit that it was quite distressing to be told that all is fine with THAT guitar all the time... that is why I had to resort to these last attempts. My behavior at the end was not the same as when I still had hope of cooperation.


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## hibernative (Jul 18, 2022)

I have 2 questions:
1. If the neck was perfectly straight and the bridge/saddles didn't go lower, what was the action at the 12'th frets high and low?
2. The guitar sounded muted no matter pickups and electronics would suggest "tonewood" has a huge impact on sound. Did it not resonate and kill the string?


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## wizbit81 (Jul 18, 2022)

I read the screenshots.....from his he clearly asked you multiple times to send it back so he could look at it, fix it, and then would let you choose if you sold it or kept it. It's clear he spent hours talking to you about this while you went ballistic and threatened him with lawyers and with 'public forums' You refused to send it back and tampered with it via local guys, of course you invalidated the warranty, and screaming in all caps that you didn't and that I am out of my mind for saying so, along with at least one other person and the luthier himself (3 people out of their mind apparently) shows more about you than it does about the situation. The car analogy is perfect, it's not a straw man, both are examples of you buying a complex, often bespoke product, complaining (justified or not) refusing to return the item, taking it apart and changing the setup and hammering frets etc then demanding it be taken back after that. Complaining about 'I felt alone in Germany' is ridiculous. Well boo-hoo Sally, put your big boy pants on, feelings are irrelevant here it's facts that are key, and those screenshots don't show what you think they show. It looks like you were a complete ass from them and he was quite tolerant really.
Fact....you had a complaint, warranted or not.
Fact...OEM offered to fix it if returned to them, as should be done.
Fact...you refused and tampered with it in a number of ways.
Fact...you threatened him with public shaming and lawyers etc.
Fact...you eventually did ship it to him, he did work on it, and then he helped you sell it.
Fact... months later, after you 'cooled down' you did go to a forum and unload. 

I gotta say dude for me personally, I don't need to see any more, you were out of line, an ass, you did the wrong thing and invalidated the warranty, and you're lucky he continued to help afterwards, right through to taking it and sorting it out for free after you did that, then helping you sell a secondhand guitar. If you had just shipped it back to him at the start none of it would have happened.

I read the details of this with an open mind btw, I didn't come into it pre-decided.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

hibernative said:


> I have 2 questions:
> 1. If the neck was perfectly straight and the bridge/saddles didn't go lower, what was the action at the 12'th frets high and low?
> 2. The guitar sounded muted no matter pickups and electronics would suggest "tonewood" has a huge impact on sound. Did it not resonate and kill the string?


1. the action was more or less same as at 24th fret. Maybe slightly less, but still well above 2 mm for E and comparable for e as far as I can remember. Not sure whether I have this documented.
2. I cannot tell why the guitar sounded so dull. Maybe it was the resistance / potentiometer for volume. This impacts the resonance frequency of the electronics, therefore being able to dull up the sound in case there is no resistance (hope it is not the other way round). But the local tech inspected this as well, we could not pinpoint the issue. But it was obviously there. Builder told me this is all within range and just not my taste.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

wizbit81 said:


> I read the screenshots.....from his he clearly asked you multiple times to send it back so he could look at it, fix it, and then would let you choose if you sold it or kept it. It's clear he spent hours talking to you about this while you went ballistic and threatened him with lawyers and with 'public forums' You refused to send it back and tampered with it via local guys, of course you invalidated the warranty, and screaming in all caps that you didn't and that I am out of my mind for saying so, along with at least one other person and the luthier himself (3 people out of their mind apparently) shows more about you than it does about the situation. The car analogy is perfect, it's not a straw man, both are examples of you buying a complex, often bespoke product, complaining (justified or not) refusing to return the item, taking it apart and changing the setup and hammering frets etc then demanding it be taken back after that. Complaining about 'I felt alone in Germany' is ridiculous. Well boo-hoo Sally, put your big boy pants on, feelings are irrelevant here it's facts that are key, and those screenshots don't show what you think they show. It looks like you were a complete ass from them and he was quite tolerant really.
> Fact....you had a complaint, warranted or not.
> Fact...OEM offered to fix it if returned to them, as should be done.
> Fact...you refused and tampered with it in a number of ways.
> ...


Sorry, he did not want to fix these issues. He clearly states that he is only going to "set it up" NOT fix it. All the mentioned flaws are not flaws in his opinion, he even says so in the images. Also he wanted me to pay for it, since all the issues were "not wrong" in his book. Against the law, check it yourself or get a lawyer. I did not infringe anything by changing pups and having it checked for minor issues.

Lastly, he only offered this "bad" option after a loooooong discussion about these issues in which he told me I shall try this and that, move the truss rod here and there and whatsoever. It is not against law to get your stuff checked by a specialist before reporting issues. The car analogy makes zero sense, this is a service contract, I did not BUY a product.


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## jephjacques (Jul 18, 2022)

it is very weird that you are only posting about this months after the fact, OP.


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## nickgray (Jul 18, 2022)

wizbit81 said:


> The car analogy is perfect, it's not a straw man, both are examples of you buying a complex, often bespoke product



Oh yeah, a guitar is absolutely as complex as a car


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## jephjacques (Jul 18, 2022)

can't play guitar until you get your guitarist license at age 16


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## hibernative (Jul 18, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> 1. the action was more or less same as at 24th fret. Maybe slightly less, but still well above 2 mm for E and comparable for e as far as I can remember. Not sure whether I have this documented.
> 2. I cannot tell why the guitar sounded so dull. Maybe it was the resistance / potentiometer for volume. This impacts the resonance frequency of the electronics, therefore being able to dull up the sound in case there is no resistance (hope it is not the other way round). But the local tech inspected this as well, we could not pinpoint the issue. But it was obviously there. Builder told me this is all within range and just not my taste.


1. 2mm is crazy high for something like that. Was that with the neck perfectly straight? No reason to have any relief if the frets were as good as Rusti claims.
2. Listening to the demo Alessandro Zilio did, it definitely sounds a bit dark but it's hard to know his settings. 
I agree that 5k for a guitar where the trem hasn't even been properly installed due to the guitar being a prototype run shouldn't have been sold for the full price. 2,5k would sound reasonable.


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## Gango79 (Jul 18, 2022)

it is not a question of believing in one or another. the objective fact is that Claudio accepted the return of the guitar at his expense. He refinished the guitar, restored it as original and sell it for you according to your agreement! AND THIS IS A FACT!! And Your lawyer cannot do anything since you made some mod on the guitar…
I bought many guitars including most expansive ones. Not all of them satisfied me…but no one accepted to refund me! Probably this happens in your wonderland!


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## Millul (Jul 18, 2022)

As an Italian living in Germany, I am at the same time horrified and amused by this whole thing (several cultural elements at play on both sides), but ultimately sorry that someone got an expensive guitar with flaws it should not have had, and that bad feelings abound.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> it is very weird that you are only posting about this months after the fact, OP.


 I also gave explanation for this. Back then when all of this happened I was too emotional to write any objective review of this guitar. You can only imagine how a review thread of such a guitar with negative emotions like the ones after that experience would look like… Also I thought I'll just leave it be, but then again I thought about how other people might profit from my negative experience.

To make people aware, who might not be aware: I gain NOTHING from this review. The money is lost, the time I waited for the guitar was for naught, I just compiled the stuff I still had lying around into the description of my experience. And anyone has the right to doubt me but be aware: I did not tamper with the trem on these pics. There are images with the trem still having the pins + tape, this is how it came from the factory. My setup after this was just to make the guitar reasonable playable at all. It was still far away from what anyone would have expected, that is also why this went back and forth for so long.

It took me time to realize that all this hype and hope turned out to be illusion. Imagine buying a guitar for 5 000 € and waiting 2 years. You are so happy, the images look great and on first sight it does look great! But then on second sight and when having a closer look, things start to look sketchy… you notice bit by bit how flawed this build actually is. And you start to think "oh, that is not so bad, this can be fixed by an easy setup at the workshop, not a real issue" but things are not sorted out after professional setup and keep piling up and you keep noticing that there is some issue in that build that CANNOT be remedied so easily. You get into contact with the builder after noticing these first issues but these are brushed off as being "normal" and just "not as you expected" / "not your taste". And then the story just continues from there on… 

I was a stupid customer and played like a damn fiddle.

This is not going to happen again. Sometimes you have to pay for experience.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> it is not a question of believing in one or another. the objective fact is that Claudio accepted the return of the guitar at his expense. He refinished the guitar, restored it as original and sell it for you according to your agreement! AND THIS IS A FACT!! And Your lawyer cannot do anything since you made some mod on the guitar…
> I bought many guitars including most expansive ones. Not all of them satisfied me…but no one accepted to refund me! Probably this happens in your wonderland!


Again, this is not true. I had to send him an official letter to have the guitar redone, ONLY then he was cooperative. He wanted me to ship the guitar at my risk and my expense. This is clearly written in the chat. Please read more closely. And again, ask yourself: Why was such a guitar at this price tag shipped at all, in this condition?

I did NOT modify the guitar. The pickups were swapped professionally, this has nothing to do with the tremolo / the neck / or anything this is about. Besides, there was a chip-off of the original pickups, this was already on the provisional images of the guitar, so it was before it was shipped to me. This is documented as well. My lawyer knows a bit more about this than you I guess? Or do you have a degree in European law?

BTW: Are you a customer of Rusti Guitars by any chance? Living in Italy? Maybe you even have some thread on these guitars?  I see some conflict of interest here…


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

hibernative said:


> 1. 2mm is crazy high for something like that. Was that with the neck perfectly straight? No reason to have any relief if the frets were as good as Rusti claims.
> 2. Listening to the demo Alessandro Zilio did, it definitely sounds a bit dark but it's hard to know his settings.
> I agree that 5k for a guitar where the trem hasn't even been properly installed due to the guitar being a prototype run shouldn't have been sold for the full price. 2,5k would sound reasonable.


I agree on both, this is not what you would have expected. But then again you would not have expected a trem route which made the stabilizer pins malfunction and the global tuner wheel not working at all (it only went in one direction, since it was not set to the 1 mm gap at zero point)… Furthermore the cavity hindered a free up-pull of the trem… who designs such stuff? This is nothing about setup, this is a clear fault of planning and construction.

And to be honest, I don't care so much for the details like "aah, the neck had slightly too much relief". The guitar was obviously faulted, there is enough documentation to prove that. Anyone here trying to save the builder's name is losing sight of the high level and starts to argue at low level stuff… the first question will always remain: why was such a guitar shipped at 5 k €? After 2 years of build time? Sorry, this is not acceptable AT ALL.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 18, 2022)

I don't wanna hear anyone else on this forum complaining about 5 thousand dollar custom shop Gibson Les Paul Juniors. At least, you can just return it to Guitar Center.


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## Millul (Jul 18, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> I don't wanna hear anyone else on this forum complaining about 5 thousand dollar custom shop Gibson Les Paul Juniors. At least, you can just return it to Guitar Center.



Wasn't that 7 thousand benjis?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 18, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> I don't wanna hear anyone else on this forum complaining about 5 thousand dollar custom shop Gibson Les Paul Juniors. At least, you can just return it to Guitar Center.


I think you get the problem here... the manufacturer / shop is in Italy. As a customer confronted with a guitar with this amount of flaws it is not so easy to have them fixed when all the shop is offering is "to setup the guitar properly" while they tell you that "nothing is wrong with the guitar itself". This is why I had to resort to legal pressure in the end.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 18, 2022)

Millul said:


> Wasn't that 7 thousand benjis?


... and worth it not to have those inlays.


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## SpaceDock (Jul 18, 2022)

I hope this thread shows others the law of diminishing returns. Just bc something is 5k don’t mean it’s gonna be perfect.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 18, 2022)

I guess that conversation was the "final" conversation, and at some point before that you're accusing Rusti of mocking you and refusing any service *AT ALL?*

I'm just trying to get my facts straight here, because reading through that reveals a lot about the situation.

Like for example, being upset about an imperfect guitar in this price range is completely reasonable. You paid a lot of money and waited a lot of time to get it, so you should get what you ordered to your satisfaction.

That being said, like in my situation with Aristides they offered to ship back at their expense and fix my issue. I ask and suggested if they would be willing to compensate a notated invoice from a reputable shop they could contact. They said they would really prefer to do it themselves, but if I insisted that the option of reimbursement was available to me. I shipped it back to them and they addressed it at no cost to me.

In the conversation you provided, you seem to have been offered this here, but at the end of the day you should ask if that's a viable option before committing to it.




This is *INSANELY *combative, your first response back was a hard stop "Nope", this kind of sets the tone for the rest of the conversation but you jump straight in the quick sand and mention exposing him/or suing him.

That's fucking crazy  you're going nuclear man, I'm genuinely surprised Rusti kept replying after you mentioned retaining a lawyer. At that point the luthier would speak through legal representation as well instead of trying to handle things personally.

Again, you are in the right to make complaints about an instrument with issues. But you are testing the temperament of any person you talk to when your dialogue looks like that, Rusti could have handled the entire scenario better as well or offered a fix at his loss as well. But it sounds like there are a couple of hard to fix issues with the build that would have left you feeling sour regardless of any attempt to fix it (Trem Cavity/Inlay Divots/Weight of the instrument).

Hopefully you can take that constructively, I've burned bridges after getting screwed over before but overall going nuclear will never make you look favorable no matter how in the right you are.


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## wizbit81 (Jul 18, 2022)

I'm not going to bother to reply again, I'm only doing it this time because it's so f*cking hot here and I can't sleep and I came back to read what you'd followed up my previous post with.

You said you didn't modify it, yet a tech took it apart....more than once, messed with the truss rod, messed with the electronics, hammered a fret, etc etc. Dude....that's modifying it from it's original condition every which way on a Sunday, and like you've been told a million times, that voids the warranty. It's fantasy world to think otherwise. Car analogy again.....oh Mr. Dealership I want to return this BMW I bought last week, btw I got a guy to take the engine apart...twice, I hammered this bit of the exhaust because I thought it was loose, and tweaked the electronics, you'd get laughed out of there. I mean it's patently obvious but if not just trust me on this one, I work with multi-million pound contracts at a senior level, part of my job is...well was... literally enforcement of warranty on managed service contracts.

You dissolved into rudeness and threats, and you told me he didn't offer to fix it, yet his screenshot in THIS THREAD says the words 'fix it' about 5 times. That's just that particular part of the conversation, I'm sure he did it other times as well.

On the topic of service contracts vs products..... , oh man I'm not getting into it, just accept you bought a guitar and instead of letting him look at it and correct any faults you acted like an oaf and this whole unfortunate situation could have been totally avoided. The issue here was you, both your actions and behaviour. All you needed to have done was send the f*cking thing back to him in the first place and I wouldn't be typing long messages at midnight, Claudio wouldn't be getting people posting links to this in his facebook groups, and you wouldn't be out of pocket and upset. It's alright saying 'people are playing the blame game and blaming me oh no!' but you're the one that took this public and allowed other people to see what happened. There may be other people that totally take your side in this, everyone is entitled to an opinion. By posting publically you invited opinion though, which I've given based on what I've seen. 

Lastly...... I cannot believe you ordered a walnut bodied guitar then complained it was too heavy. Literally mind blown at that one.

Peace out, I'm off to bed and I won't reply further at any time, I'm done.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 18, 2022)

wizbit81 said:


> Lastly...... I cannot believe you ordered a walnut bodied guitar then complained it was too heavy. Literally mind blown at that one.


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## dmlinger (Jul 18, 2022)

Note to self, don't sell puma a guitar.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I guess that conversation was the "final" conversation, and at some point before that you're accusing Rusti of mocking you and refusing any service *AT ALL?*
> 
> I'm just trying to get my facts straight here, because reading through that reveals a lot about the situation.
> 
> ...


Our conversation spanned several hundred messages over a long course of time. He kept telling me over and over that these issues cannot be possible, it must be the setup (sure trem mounting and cavity / fucked up electronics / not flush fret / cosmetic issues are for sure setup related.

At a certain point I was fed up with that kind of customer service. He should have openly acknowledged the issues and offered correction / return of the guitar at his expense. He did not, he clearly stated in the chat that the cosmetic flaws are OK ("are you serious?"), same for bridge ("works as designed" / "he is in no position to tell"), electronics all was OK (just not my taste)... all of this is ridiculous. Even after months he kept brushing off these things and wanted me to pay for shipment while only offering a SETUP and not to correct the guitar?

Again: The guitar was not modified, this was basic setup work (professional), pickups were changed, the issues had nothing to do with this. Rusti wanted me to change truss rod setting and advised me what to do. He even told me to turn the rod in the incorrect direction and I had to remind him that this is the incorrect direction. Eben the Sophia hotline helped me more and offered replacemement. They also stated that the issue is the guitar and Rusti Guitars should fix this. But this was NEVER agreed. Acc. to Rusti Guitars all is working as designed and this is what he told me. Anyone would have switched mode of conversation then. 

That guy coming back with the car analogy is not getting anything I presented here at all, so I won't bother to reply to him from here on out. Keep ordering the Rusti Guitars! Maybe you just don't care about quality or not able to tell.

Guitar came as in the images (images were not all taken at the end, they are a summary of several months trying to fix the guitar, Rusti Guitars was in the loop all the time).

A 5 000 € guitar which looks like this! Surely, this is perfect. This is not even about diminishing returns, this is about negative returns. Not encountered any guitar at that price which showed such flawed craftmanship and bad design.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


>


Wood density is not a fixed number for a certain species. There is an average value and a range. The builder has to source acc. to what is expected and furthermore guide the client. I ordered the guitar to be lightweight, Rusti Guitars was made well aware. Bad service, again. They have their builds not under control.

My Skervesen for example is made out of "heavy" woods, including walnut. It weighs much less and is 8-string. Main thing in weight is body shape, not wood. Shape was suggested by Rusti Guitars. The Lotus is just bad headless design, much too big, much too heavy. He even started to change carvings / chamberings from then on out, because he knew this was unacceptable. He stated this in his first post here.


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## hibernative (Jul 19, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I guess that conversation was the "final" conversation, and at some point before that you're accusing Rusti of mocking you and refusing any service *AT ALL?*
> 
> I'm just trying to get my facts straight here, because reading through that reveals a lot about the situation.
> 
> ...


Problem was he said the guitar was perfect, when he didn't route out the trem cavity for the block.
He should have said "This was a prototype and the trem cavity didn't get enough clearence. I will take it back for free and solve it for you."


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## ArtDecade (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Wood density is not a fixed number for a certain species. There is an average value and a range. The builder has to source acc. to what is expected and furthermore guide the client. I ordered the guitar to be lightweight, Rusti Guitars was made well aware. Bad service, again. They have their builds not under control.
> 
> My Skervesen for example is made out of "heavy" woods, including walnut. It weighs much less and is 8-string. Main thing in weight is body shape, not wood. Shape was suggested by Rusti Guitars. The Lotus is just bad headless design, much too big, much too heavy. He even started to change carvings / chamberings from then on out, because he knew this was unacceptable. He stated this in his first post here.



I can understand why the builder thinks you are an out and out wanker. You ordered lightweight walnut? Walnut is heavy - even at its lightest. Also, you ordered a goofy looking guitar and expected this guy to build you components for a space launch. Get over yourself. You started this thread out of spite after you sold the guitar. The result is most people think you are the problem.


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## Mot90DaD (Jul 19, 2022)

For season 3, I hope for the new buyer to join this thread - or the lawyer? - maybe both!  

But jokes aside - we are talking about a 5k guitar. Would I get a guitar like that (bridge, action, string buzz, muddy sound), I would be really pi**ed as well. 

Looks like there wont be a winner here...


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## tian (Jul 19, 2022)

Nobody wins in a knife fight...


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## prlgmnr (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I gain NOTHING from this review


As much as rational me wants to say you should have reflected on this before you posted.... how could I resist the chance to rake through some sweet sweet private conversations


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Jul 19, 2022)

@DirtyPuma You should probably just give up on getting everyone to agree with you. Bottom line is you should have given the builder the chance to fix things.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> I can understand why the builder thinks you are an out and out wanker. You ordered lightweight walnut? Walnut is heavy - even at its lightest. Also, you ordered a goofy looking guitar and expected this guy to build you components for a space launch. Get over yourself. You started this thread out of spite after you sold the guitar. The result is most people think you are the problem.


Says who? Who are you at all?  I provided a professional review here, all well detailed. I don't care what you think. Also, it seems you do not read very carefully. You did not provide any useful addition to the whole thread. This is about the things presented in the first 3 posts. Then the builder came here and tried to talk himself out, this was when all got off-topic.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

I want to send this to Dan @ Oni just to show him that I'm not actually the worst customer.


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## olejason (Jul 19, 2022)

Every time I read these threads I just come away thinking "high end" custom guitars are an incredibly stupid endeavor. At this point just give me a well (factory) made $1500 Schecter, Ibanez, LTD, etc. and I'll be just fine.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

For season 3, I hope for the new buyer to join this thread - or the lawyer? - maybe both! 


Mot90DaD said:


> But jokes aside - we are talking about a 5k guitar. Would I get a guitar like that (bridge, action, string buzz, muddy sound), I would be really pi**ed as well.
> 
> Looks like there wont be a winner here...


I said before, this is a review. Reviews are for entertainment. In case you guys were entertained all is well!


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## Gango79 (Jul 19, 2022)

What I see in this conversation is a guy that from the very beginning realized he didn’t want that guitar. And despite the repeated messages from Claudo in order to fix it , your idea was for a complete refund . Sorry mate but I can’t take this idea away!
Another thing: when you order a guitar on your own specifications ( from a luthier) you have to take the responsibility of the final result. I ordered a private stock with exotic woods but I had no idea of the final result . Not all the guitar sounds the same even if they are build from the same builder. Cmon mate …At the very end Claudio sold the guitar for you!!!!
Make peace with yourself


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## ArtDecade (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Says who? Who are you at all?  I provided a professional review here, all well detailed. I don't care what you think. Also, it seems you do not read very carefully. You did not provide any useful addition to the whole thread. This is about the things presented in the first 3 posts. Then the builder came here and tried to talk himself out, this was when all got off-topic.


Who am I? I'm ArtDecade. Henceforth you shall be known as "Fool Who Parts With Money And Whines".


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## dmlinger (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> For season 3, I hope for the new buyer to join this thread - or the lawyer? - maybe both!
> 
> I said before, this is a review. Reviews are for entertainment. In case you guys were entertained all is well!


Feels more like a "burn the bridge 6 months later" post rather than a review for entertainment. 

This is the very reason I build as a passion project and not for money. If you nitpicked my work and didn't like the guitar, I'd tell you to send it back, I'd refund your money, and then you could fuck right off.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Who am I? I'm ArtDecade. Henceforth you shall be known as "Fool Who Parts With Money And Whines".


I would not even have this thread deleted for a full refund from Rusti Guitars. Things happened like this. How could he have known that I don't care for the money. I even offered him the guitar back at 50 % but he did not want to have anything to do with the mess. 🫡
Yours truly
Fool Who Parts With Money And Whines


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## JimF (Jul 19, 2022)

Not wanting to extend this any further, but I side with the OP.
I think the OP needs to post up his entire chat log from day 1, as incendiary as that seems.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
1. OP received guitar, advanced trem system didn't work as he'd hoped, and had a buzz issue on the neck (ignoring finish issues and the muddy sound).
2. OP contacts Rusti about this, who replies "This is fine, not to your tastes perhaps, but fine".
3. Presumably OP doesn't get any further. Realises if Rusti doesn't want to know he might as well spend a fraction of the purchase price getting it sorted out. Hey, if you've spent £5k and you just need an extra 10% to make it perfect, you would.
4. He's been told the guitar is fine, so arranges the installation of different pickups that are to his taste.
5. Luthier says "Oh by the way, that fret buzz was this loose fret, I've re-seated it, no biggie". That point is neither here nor there. The guitar has travelled from Italy to Germany and is a piece of wood, which is subject to change. A loose fret can happen surely? But now its sorted.
6. OP contacts Sophia as the trem still isn't working as he wishes, and takes photos presumably to show them. Bridge issues are highlighted.
7. At this point the OP has realised perhaps these aren't just a few minor issues, but in fact he isn't that happy with his 5k purchase, and goes back to Rusti.
8. Rusti says "hey, you've messed around with the guitar, you've done this, you've done that etc etc" valid point. But the main issue is the routing for the trem.
9. OP loses his shit, contacts a lawyer, and then Rusti says "Ok then, I still say the guitar is fine, but send it to me and I'll amend the issues, that you & your personal taste, are having with it.

I kinda side with the OP. Maybe I'm too empathetic. Maybe my fear of ordering a custom and it going wrong is acting up!


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> What I see in this conversation is a guy that from the very beginning realized he didn’t want that guitar. And despite the repeated messages from Claudo in order to fix it , your idea was for a complete refund . Sorry mate but I can’t take this idea away!
> Another thing: when you order a guitar on your own specifications ( from a luthier) you have to take the responsibility of the final result. I ordered a private stock with exotic woods but I had no idea of the final result . Not all the guitar sounds the same even if they are build from the same builder. Cmon mate …At the very end Claudio sold the guitar for you!!!!
> Make peace with yourself


Sorry to destroy your argumentation, but I offered Claudio to just refund 50 % and take the guitar back. He did not want this, since the guitar was "all fine" acc. to him.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

JimF said:


> Not wanting to extend this any further, but I side with the OP.
> I think the OP needs to post up his entire chat log from day 1, as incendiary as that seems.
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong:
> ...



I mean, if you were in the business of making something and selling it to customers, if the customer wasn't happy and you offered to repair it, and they then took it to someone else to tamper with it in who knows what manner, why would you be on the hook? All that tampering is designed to make things better, but there's tons of people who will just mess it up, but at best it's unknown changes to the instrument that now you're supposed to have to potentially deal with? And the customer is suggesting there are problems and now you don't know if you shipped it that way, it was messed up in shipping, it was messed up by the buyer, or whoever random tech they brought it to. If the customer sends it back right away, you can basically work out if there is an issue and where it came from. If they don't, you can't. And why should you be fixing problems that you can't pinpoint as being caused by yourself or your carrier? It's as simple as that. It sucks to get something you're not happy with, but follow the protocol or GTFO.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> I mean, if you were in the business of making something and selling it to customers, if the customer wasn't happy and you offered to repair it, and they then took it to someone else to tamper with it in who knows what manner, why would you be on the hook? All that tampering is designed to make things better, but there's tons of people who will just mess it up, but at best it's unknown changes to the instrument that now you're supposed to have to potentially deal with? And the customer is suggesting there are problems and now you don't know if you shipped it that way, it was messed up in shipping, it was messed up by the buyer, or whoever random tech they brought it to. If the customer sends it back right away, you can basically work out if there is an issue and where it came from. If they don't, you can't. And why should you be fixing problems that you can't pinpoint as being caused by yourself or your carrier? It's as simple as that. It sucks to get something you're not happy with, but follow the protocol or GTFO.


Don't be ridiculous, I even provided evidence from the start to Rusti that the trem is not OK, then contacted Sophia (acc. to Rusti Guitars they were responsible for it not working). Most issues here are clearly a manufacturing issue, nothing one can add by "tampering around". Furthermore the chip-off of that pick cover was already in the official provisional picks. You are just making stuff up here, although you don't know any details on how things went? The dull sound is already audible in the demo videos... etc., etc..

Of course I contacted Rusti right away. He was not helpful at all and for a long time never offered anything. Only when things piled up more and more was when he got nervous... then he still said "all is fine". The guy owning CSL sophia even said "that Rusti guy must have routed the cavity incorrectly". All the time Rusti Guitars insisted on me paying all the expenses. 

All of this went down pretty differently from how you described it here...


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Don't be ridiculous, I even provided evidence from the start to Rusti that the trem is not OK, then contacted Sophia (acc. to Rusti Guitars they were responsible for it not working). Most issues here are clearly a manufacturing issue, nothing one can add by "tampering around". Furthermore the chip-off of that pick cover was already in the official provisional picks. You are just making stuff up here, although you don't know any details on how things went? The dull sound is already audible in the demo videos... etc., etc..
> 
> Of course I contacted Rusti right away. He was not helpful at all and for a long time never offered anything. Only when things piled up more and more was when he got nervous... then he still said "all is fine". The guy owning CSL sophia even said "that Rusti guy must have routed the cavity incorrectly". All the time Rusti Guitars insisted on me paying all the expenses.
> 
> All of this went down pretty differently from how you described it here...



OP: "Hi rusti, my trem's not working right"

Rusti: "Send it to me"

OP: 

Rusti: 


(I don't really doubt there were issues with the guitar. You just handled it in the least helpful way possible but expect the treatment of a customer who genuinely wanted the guitar fixed up and took the appropriate steps.)


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## StevenC (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> I mean, if you were in the business of making something and selling it to customers, if the customer wasn't happy and you offered to repair it, and they then took it to someone else to tamper with it in who knows what manner, why would you be on the hook? All that tampering is designed to make things better, but there's tons of people who will just mess it up, but at best it's unknown changes to the instrument that now you're supposed to have to potentially deal with? And the customer is suggesting there are problems and now you don't know if you shipped it that way, it was messed up in shipping, it was messed up by the buyer, or whoever random tech they brought it to. If the customer sends it back right away, you can basically work out if there is an issue and where it came from. If they don't, you can't. And why should you be fixing problems that you can't pinpoint as being caused by yourself or your carrier? It's as simple as that. It sucks to get something you're not happy with, but follow the protocol or GTFO.


I agree. Except the bit where Rusti says doing a setup voids the warranty.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

StevenC said:


> I agree. Except the bit where Rusti says doing a setup voids the warranty.



He didn't even use that against him though, so a bit of a moot point. Like if AppleCare was like, "okay, technically you shouldn't have opened this but what the hell -- bring it on by!", I'd think, hey, that was pretty nice of them.


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## Gango79 (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Sorry to destroy your argumentation, but I offered Claudio to just refund 50 % and take the guitar back. He did not want this, since the guitar was "all fine" acc. to him.


sure so you would have brought home 2500 euros. you would have resold the guitar for 3500 and brought home a profit of 1000 euros. great idea.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> OP: "Hi rusti, my trem's not working right"
> 
> Rusti: "Send it to me"
> 
> ...


Man you keep making things up here. I tried my best to have Rusti Guitars take it back but he kept telling me that all is fine and just not my taste. He even blamed the CSL manufacturer. Had I had the option why should I rather sell it off after all this mess? You think I am an idiot I assume? Can tell you, if I am, you must be as well.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> sure so you would have brought home 2500 euros. you would have resold the guitar for 3500 and brought home a profit of 1000 euros. great idea.


I would have sent the guitar BACK TO HIM for 2 500 €, do you get it know? Would have been -1 000 € compared to now.

BTW, checked your older posts for conflict of interest and found enough. Leaving this here so that potential readers can make up their mind themselves:


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Man you keep making things up here. I tried my best to have Rusti Guitars take it back but he kept telling me that all is fine and just not my taste. He even blamed the CSL manufacturer. Had I had the option why should I rather sell it off after all this mess? *You think I am an idiot I assume? Can tell you, if I am, you must be as well.*



You know, I actually knew exactly how this story was going to go the second I read, "Total price was 4 800 €, I paid 5 000 € just out of generosity.". Like this is weird, this customer's going to be a Karen.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> You know, I actually knew exactly how this story was going to go the second I read, "Total price was 4 800 €, I paid 5 000 € just out of generosity.". Like this is weird, this customer's going to be a Karen.


You keep talking off-topic. Look at my first three posts and the quality of that guitar. That looking good? 

Furthermore: again bringing up the conflict of interest. What are Rusti customers doing here trying to play down obvious issues of a 5 000 € guitar? Guess you are actually not realising that making this thread bigger increases its range. The images stay and no one in this thread was able to argument against the bad quality shown in these images and files.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You keep talking off-topic. Look at my first three posts and the quality of that guitar. That looking good?
> 
> Furthermore: again bringing up the conflict of interest. What are Rusti customers doing here trying to play down obvious issues of a 5 000 € guitar?



I'm not a Rusti customer? Not sure what you're on about there.

I can say this is superficially at the level of Vik / Daemoness, if you ask them to do these complicated things. Like these metal epoxy inlay on my Daemoness had more holes than the inlay here. I guess I could have complained but like, where does it end? Pull out the electron microscope and start pointing out a poor molecular adhesion along the glue seams? Honestly I have no idea what would have made you happy or what you're even seeing in a bunch of these "coloration" mistakes. My Vik had far more of these minor woodworking issues. You think Vik refinished or tidied it up for me? Dude barely sent me the guitar in the first place. My made-to-measure strandberg had way more of these issues. My Artinger didn't have inlays anywhere near this precise. My Hartung came in a totally different color than I had wanted ("tiger" burst instead of "tigers-eye" burst). Welcome to custom guitars, man.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> I'm not a Rusti customer? Not sure what you're on about there.
> 
> I can say this is superficially at the level of Vik / Daemoness, if you ask them to do these complicated things. Like these metal epoxy inlay on my Daemoness had more holes than the inlay here. I guess I could have complained but like, where does it end? Pull out the electron microscope and start pointing out a poor molecular adhesion along the glue seams? Honestly I have no idea what would have made you happy or what you're even seeing in a bunch of these "coloration" mistakes. My Vik had far more of these minor woodworking issues. You think Vik refinished or tidied it up for me? Dude barely sent me the guitar in the first place.


Was your trem cavity incorrectly routed and you told that this is fine and actually the fault of the trem manufacturer?

Was your guitar having sound dropouts?

Was your guitar having serious problems with any harmonics?

Was your guitar much heavier than promised?

Was your guitar having serious holes in the fretboard (not talking about tiny bubbles of the epoxy but then again this also was the case and it shows how Rusti Guitars does not have processes under control).

Was your guitar having loose frets?

Etc. Etc.

BTW that other guy is a Rusti customer and even Claudio's friend who demo'ed the guitar showed up...

For your build:
If you were having such a build and just accepting it then halleluja, this is really pathetic.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Was your trem cavity incorrectly routed and you told that this is fine and actually the fault of the trem manufacturer?
> 
> Was your guitar having sound dropouts?
> 
> ...



Not these specific issues, but a whole set of other equally "egregious" issues. Except for problems with harmonics, because that's nonsense.

It's not the Sistine Chapel, it's a guitar. If you're expecting perfection, especially from such a complicated build asking for a bunch of things to be done for first time, you're never going to be happy. I've ordered like a dozen custom guitars. Hard to swallow pill: it's never perfect.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> Not these specific issues, but a whole set of other equally "egregious" issues. Except for problems with harmonics, because that's nonsense.
> 
> It's not the Sistine Chapel, it's a guitar. If you're expecting perfection, especially from such a complicated build asking for a bunch of things to be done for first time, you're never going to be happy. I've ordered like a dozen custom guitars. Hard to swallow pill: it's never perfect.


You are saying the problem with the harmonics is made up? Did you check the images provided at all? Did you hear the sound clips? Did you read that Claudio (and Alessandro who demo'ed the guitar) even admitted this was a flaw? They downplayed it as "5-min issue", but then again: Why is a 5-min issue on a 5-k guitar? Together with so many other issues? It was just riddled with issues. No one in their right mind would be happy.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You are saying the problem with the harmonics is made up? Did you check the images provided at all? Did you hear the sound clips? Did you read that Claudio (and Alessandro who demo'ed the guitar) even admitted this was a flaw? They downplayed it as "5-min issue", but then again: Why is a 5-min issue on a 5-k guitar? Together with so many other issues? It was just riddled with issues. No one in their right mind would be happy.



I mean, there was an electronics issue from a bad component. I'm not going to pretend that Rusti managed to build a guitar with "less" harmonics.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> I mean, there was an electronics issue from a bad component. I'm not going to pretend that Rusti managed to build a guitar with "less" harmonics.


It actually had not much harmonic content when plugged in? That is all I said. Check the spectra. You cannot see much harmonic content for the Rusti... and Rusti Guitars kept telling me "this is normal, this is just not your taste, there is no reason something has to be fixed".


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## hibernative (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> I'm not a Rusti customer? Not sure what you're on about there.
> 
> I can say this is superficially at the level of Vik / Daemoness, if you ask them to do these complicated things. Like these metal epoxy inlay on my Daemoness had more holes than the inlay here. I guess I could have complained but like, where does it end? Pull out the electron microscope and start pointing out a poor molecular adhesion along the glue seams? Honestly I have no idea what would have made you happy or what you're even seeing in a bunch of these "coloration" mistakes. My Vik had far more of these minor woodworking issues. You think Vik refinished or tidied it up for me? Dude barely sent me the guitar in the first place. My made-to-measure strandberg had way more of these issues. My Artinger didn't have inlays anywhere near this precise. My Hartung came in a totally different color than I had wanted ("tiger" burst instead of "tigers-eye" burst). Welcome to custom guitars, man.


All this tells me is that you have no standard and is ready to overpay for guitars that are not up to the quality of the price tag, and then tell everyone else they shouldn't complain. 
Maybe you need to buy a PRS PS and see what real quality is.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

hibernative said:


> All this tells me is that you have no standard and is ready to overpay for guitars that are not up to the quality of the price tag, and then tell everyone else they shouldn't complain.
> Maybe you need to buy a PRS PS and see what real quality is.



Got two. Next?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> Got two. Next?


What cheap argumentation that is. And you have "politics" in your interest. Can't even state any valid argument. But we had this before. Pathetic.

Keep trying to keep the damage low for Rusti Guitars and other small builders with low quality standards and obviously no quality control. The images and other proof I provided are enough for any clear thinking individual looking for a new guitar.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> I'm not a Rusti customer? Not sure what you're on about there.
> 
> I can say this is superficially at the level of Vik / Daemoness, if you ask them to do these complicated things. Like these metal epoxy inlay on my Daemoness had more holes than the inlay here. I guess I could have complained but like, where does it end? Pull out the electron microscope and start pointing out a poor molecular adhesion along the glue seams? Honestly I have no idea what would have made you happy or what you're even seeing in a bunch of these "coloration" mistakes. My Vik had far more of these minor woodworking issues. You think Vik refinished or tidied it up for me? Dude barely sent me the guitar in the first place. My made-to-measure strandberg had way more of these issues. My Artinger didn't have inlays anywhere near this precise. My Hartung came in a totally different color than I had wanted ("tiger" burst instead of "tigers-eye" burst). Welcome to custom guitars, man.



I don't have a horse in that race, but if your ultimate point is "Custom guitars are always going to be imperfect, deal with it", or "you can't ask for perfection, even on a 5k$ instrument", then it's a bit depressing. If you don't care about spending 5k$ and getting something imperfect, then you do you, but maybe it's not for everyone? A weird argument.

I know that for people who've been around the block a few times with custom builds, it's not necessarily surprising or unheard of to see this type of issues (from construction to finish to communication). Quite an understatement. And as a result you point to OP as some sort of diva who should have known...but doesn't that make it even _more _depressing? That in this entire industry it _should _be a well known fact for everyone that you are going to plop down a few thousands to get something imperfect and that _should not_ complain about it?

For what it's worth, I do think this guitar was the wrong one for the OP if he cares about minutiae like those paint lines, but if the geometry of the guitar/trem combo is wrong, or if the guitar is shipped without any form of QC (defective components that should have been a 5 minutes fix) then those are valid complaints.


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## profwoot (Jul 19, 2022)

I'm not taking a side, but between the texts and your attitude in this thread, I wouldn't go out of my way to help you either. Not being an asshole is generally the first step toward getting someone to help you.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Keep trying to keep the damage low for Rusti Guitars and other small builders with low quality standards and obviously no quality control. The images and other proof I provided are enough for any clear thinking individual looking for a new guitar.



He's not trying to keep the damage low for other builders with regards to QC or standards. He's saying it's normal for builders to deliver flawed products and the buyers should still be happy about them regardless . Like he is happy with his guitars so everyone should be the same.


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## dmlinger (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> For your build:
> If you were having such a build and just accepting it then halleluja, this is really pathetic.


Personally, if I commissioned a build and it wasn't up to the standards I felt were reasonable given the price paid, I would have worked with the builder to get them resolved. 

This whole thread just has a bad attitude. You should have posted your scorched earth "review" 6 months ago. Hard to take your complaints serious given that, and your attitude working with Rusti wasn't inviting. 

This thread won't get deleted, and will be around for posterity and reference for other buyers to tell them that if you are a reasonable, level headed customer, Rusti will do right by you. 

For someone who "doesn't care about the money," you sure do come across as caring about complaining on the internet. Complaining on the internet is like standing at the shoreline and screaming at the ocean for the tide to not come in. Don't be that guy because it sure does make you seem like you care about the money. Which is fine - just say it.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> I don't have a horse in that race, but if your ultimate point is "Custom guitars are always going to be imperfect, deal with it", or "you can't ask for perfection, even on a 5k$ instrument", then it's a bit depressing. If you don't care about spending 5k$ and getting something imperfect, then you do you, but maybe it's not for everyone? A weird argument.
> 
> I know that for people who've been around the block a few times with custom builds, it's not necessarily surprising or unheard of to see this type of issues (from construction to finish to communication). Quite an understatement. And as a result you point to OP as some sort of diva who should have known...but doesn't that make it even _more _depressing? That in this entire industry it _should _be a well known fact for everyone that you are going to plop down a few thousands to get something imperfect and that _should not_ complain about it?
> 
> For what it's worth, I do think this guitar was the wrong one for the OP if he cares about minutiae like those paint lines, but if the geometry of the guitar/trem combo is wrong, or if the guitar is shipped without any form of QC (defective components that should have been a 5 minutes fix) then those are valid complaints.


I agree that the minor cosmetic flaws were not the reason why I think this guitar is made in a cheap fashion. It is all things taken together which make this guitar so awful. This is just by no means 5 000 € standard. I even own another custom guitar in that price range and it is FAR superior (a Skervesen, so I recommend them over Rusti Guitars a 1 000 times, but they are also not perfect, but they care if you complain about something and do not brush it off as "your taste").

But people are coming to this thread and performing damage control for Rusti Guitars and blame the customer, although the guitar was shipped in an extremely bad condition for a 5 k instrument. It had nothing to do with the customer up to that point.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> What cheap argumentation that is. And you have "politics" in your interest. Can't even state any valid argument. But we had this before. Pathetic.
> 
> Keep trying to keep the damage low for Rusti Guitars and other small builders with low quality standards and obviously no quality control. The images and other proof I provided are enough for any clear thinking individual looking for a new guitar.



It's not "other small builders". It's like a good swath of the most popular builders with good reputations. These are man-made things. There just is literally no such thing as perfect when it comes to building a guitar, and so the question is really one of does it hold up to reasonable scrutiny, especially compared to the other "comparable" builders. 

From my pov, Rusti was open to fixing the truly necessary things - the trem, the pot - things that most reputable builders would remedy. But then he even was up to do the not so necessary things that most of the builders in his league would balk at. Oh hey, look at this nearly imperceptible finish issue - can you redo the whole thing? Yea, good luck with that. You're free to have your own standards, but you're basically living in a fairy tale world because most of the builders in this price range would not honor these requests.

It's also funny to say I'm here trying to keep the damage low for Rusti when I don't care at all, and I'm not a customer. Meanwhile there's a new account in here supporting your side? Hmmmm.


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## nickgray (Jul 19, 2022)

Yeah, at this point you're just overly argumentative and you're bickering with random forum members. Your first two posts had actual concrete info that might be useful for anyone who wants to order a guitar from this builder. Everything after that is starting to look like a trainwreck.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

dmlinger said:


> Personally, if I commissioned a build and it wasn't up to the standards I felt were reasonable given the price paid, I would have worked with the builder to get them resolved.
> 
> This whole thread just has a bad attitude. You should have posted your scorched earth "review" 6 months ago. Hard to take your complaints serious given that, and your attitude working with Rusti wasn't inviting.
> 
> ...


Actually, this is not true. You can be a level-headed customer, pay 200 € on top (about 5 % of the price) and still receive a flawed instrument and when bringing up issues you are told that "that is all normal, this is no issue", "this is just your taste", and so on. UNTIL you start to come up with the serious stuff. Only then he starts to react. All the time he was only taking care of other builds, since he was quite overtime for many builds.


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## hibernative (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> Got two. Next?


Then you should know quality and what isn't acceptable. Just a blind paypig then.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

hibernative said:


> Then you should know quality and what isn't acceptable. Just a blind paypig then.



If I wanted quality I'd go for Huber or Ken Lawrence. If I wanted to sound ignorant about high-end guitars I'd post on forums telling people they should try PRS private stock to know what real quality is.


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## odibrom (Jul 19, 2022)

... there once was a doctor so good that he could find illnesses in healthy people...


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> If I wanted quality I'd go for Huber or Ken Lawrence. If I wanted to sound ignorant about high-end guitars I'd post on forums telling people they should try PRS private stock to know what real quality is.


Now troll away, you do not contribute to the review of Rusti Guitars' awful build at all. Check the first three posts from me and comment on the images and proof provided there. You see an issue there? Should this be the case for 5 000 €? After waiting time of 2 years?


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## JimF (Jul 19, 2022)

People are seeing the part that Rusti only offered to sort the guitar once legal action was threatened/started, right? And because of the requirements of legal action the OP was required to catalogue the faults…

I had the exact same thing happen with a car purchase, and when I posted up the tale on a forum I was met with similar responses. It’s perhaps one of those things that until you’ve experienced it, you can’t predict how you’d respond. Lots of grey areas etc.


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## Giest (Jul 19, 2022)

You guys are just going around in around in circles with this, mostly because there seems to be an excess of want to share opinions without exercising proper reading comprehension. Now we're at casting dispersions about character and gaslighting.

These threads always go this way. Person one has an issue with a high dollar guitar, person two (who did zero work other than halfway reading some posts) offers little in the way of constructive criticism while insinuating person one is an entitled complainer, person one gets even more frustrated. I'm getting dizzy. Seriously, how do you guys keep a band together?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

JimF said:


> People are seeing the part that Rusti only offered to sort the guitar once legal action was threatened/started, right? And because of the requirements of legal action the OP was required to catalogue the faults…
> 
> I had the exact same thing happen with a car purchase, and when I posted up the tale on a forum I was met with similar responses. It’s perhaps one of those things that until you’ve experienced it, you can’t predict how you’d respond. Lots of grey areas etc.


You are ON POINT! Nothing to add… no one here asks themselves "who in their right mind would catalogue this stuff so precisely?". I did because I was forced to. Because Rusti Guitars kept telling me that these are no issues.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Was your trem cavity incorrectly routed and you told that this is fine and actually the fault of the trem manufacturer?
> 
> Was your guitar having sound dropouts?
> 
> ...


----------



## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You are ON POINT! Nothing to add… no one here asks themselves "who in their right mind would catalogue this stuff so precisely?". I did because I was forced to. Because Rusti Guitars kept telling me that these are no issues.



This just makes you look crazy:










Like order a PRS PS (since this has now been proposed as *the* standard), then zoom in to some 1nm spec on an inlay and try to raise that with them as a serious complaint. They'll be polite about it because that's their brand, but they'll just be thinking to themselves, "UGHHH, one of THESE people."


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> This just makes you look crazy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man check the crooked trem setup / bad cavity. Sound spectra. Those are no 1 nm issues. Not sure what you're trying to argue here? Disqualify the real issues with the minor ones which only complement the picture of a "bad guitar manufacturer"? 

Acc. to this evidence Rusti Guitars just seems incapable of putting out any build at that price tag. The quality was not sub-par, it was horrible. As mentioned, since I was advised by my lawyer I photographed any evidence of lack in build quality. There might have been more issues, but at some point I thought the evidence is enough.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Now troll away, you do not contribute to the review of Rusti Guitars' awful build at all. Check the first three posts from me and comment on the images and proof provided there. You see an issue there? Should this be the case for 5 000 €? After waiting time of 2 years?



That's not really the question you should ask. There are some people around here who will accept _much worse_.
And claim you're a diva or a Karen if _you _dare complain for receiving something flawed.

There's just no bridging that gap here.
On the one hand, group 1 is people who simply consider themselves paying customers and who expect something perfect. Or if not perfect, to have any issue addressed promptly and apologetically when they come up, or some form of acknowledgement or compensation at least (not "it's in your head" or "deal with it" or "you have the wrong preference"). And sure it sucks as a builder to have to deal with customers who want perfection, or who are impatient or become impolite...but at the end of the day, that's what you have to deal with if you're in business.
On the other hand, group 2 who think small builders are almost making them a favor by even agreeing to build them a hype guitar, so they are willing to accept delays/flaws/mistreatments and want _others _to accept the same. Since _they _have accepted flaws/mistreatments etc, it wouldn't be fair for others to complain or be treated better. Besides, we wouldn't want to hurt the builders since they are the precious ones, not the silly "customer".

And then the problem is that those builders advertise the same to both groups.
They advertise A-"We'll build you the perfect guitar, and you'll have a terrific time working with us" so it doesn't set the right expectation for group 1.
If they were upfront and instead advertised B-"We'll take our time to build you stuff if we do end up building it. Sometimes it'll be good, sometimes not so much. Sometimes we'll fix it, sometimes we won't", then that would be clearer.
Group 2 would still happily buy, since apparently flaws are OK even at 5k$, but at least group 1 would know to stay away.
Yet everyone advertises A, but now we have people of group 2 making fun of buyers from group 1 because somehow they should have known that A actually meant B...


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> That's not really the question you should ask. There are some people around here who will accept _much worse_.
> And claim you're a diva or a Karen if _you _dare complain for receiving something flawed.
> 
> There's just no bridging that gap here.
> ...


That is actually a valid point and I was at no point aware that anyone in their right mind would accept such sub-par quality in a guitar at that price tag. That is really pathetic, sorry. You PAY someone because you lack the time / tools / experience to build something acc. to a certain standard and then you receive an amateur instrument.

Rusti Guitars should advertise their guitars as you mentioned. They seem amateur at best. They don't even have any form of quality control and obviously the processes themselves not under control. Else, how can take things so long / invoices be done incorrectly, all of this stuff which is basic business…


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> That's not really the question you should ask. There are some people around here who will accept _much worse_.
> And claim you're a diva or a Karen if _you _dare complain for receiving something flawed.
> 
> There's just no bridging that gap here.
> ...



A false dichotomy and totally funny coming from a Kiesel fan. How many wonky guitars have they shipped out. And what happens if they ship it out and you have an option 50?

In reality, people just have different expectations. You don't need to try to split people 50/50 and belittle one group as luthier gimps. I just get the things I care about agreed to in writing, and the things I don't care about much, like a tiny spec on an inlay, I don't care much about. Lessons learned the hard way, but I no longer have to karen out on the boards when things don't turn out alright. They've basically never turned out completely right, and I could have thrown a fit at any of them, but at some point, when something is off with *EVERY* build, from a diverse set of renown builders, the expectation problem is sadly no longer about the builder but about the buyer.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> This just makes you look crazy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now you're being disingenuous on purpose.
I'd be 100% with you that someone doing super zoomed-in pictures with cranked up contrast as the sole complaint would be out of their mind.

But here OP was the first to acknowledge in his post that those were minor inconsequential things that were no big deal, just like on his Skervy cosmetic issues.
Not the reason he was unhappy with that particular guitar...


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> A false dichotomy and totally funny coming from a Kiesel fan. How many wonky guitars have they shipped out. And what happens if they ship it out and you have an option 50?
> 
> In reality, people just have different expectations. You don't need to try to split people 50/50 and belittle one group as luthier gimps. I just get the things I care about agreed to in writing, and the things I don't care about much, like a tiny spec on an inlay, I don't care much about. Lessons learned the hard way, but I no longer have to karen out on the boards when things don't turn out alright. They've basically never turned out completely right, and I could have thrown a fit at any of them, but at some point, when something is off with *EVERY* build, from a diverse set of renown builders, the expectation problem is sadly no longer about the builder but about the buyer.



I am not a fan of Kiesel just because I happen to think they can offer great guitars that used to be nice value too. Don't see how that's related anyway, but to your point, it's actually _exactly _why I always used to recommend the exact same thing when they're in the discussion. Order something "regular" from them so that you can try and return with absolutely 0 risk if you don't like. No drama at all. If you do something bespoke/50/non returnable, then yeah, it can be a world of hurt, and yeah sometimes it sucks. Just like other builders. Which is exactly the point  . But at least you also have the "safe" option that no one else even offers...

Now to your point, _you _are the one trying to belittle OP by painting him as an ignorant nitpicker vs a wholesome professional Rusti, whereas the situation is way more nuanced (issues much bigger than small cosmetic flaws, many attempts at ignoring the issue, not offering a fix until threatened...the usual, basically).

You continue with _your _experience that _you _know that _your _custom orders will be flawed, even for many thousands, and that _you _don't care. That's fine, and _you do you_.
But 1-that's just you, and maybe some people are allowed to feel differently, and 2-that's not how those builders advertise their work, so the fact that you have to read between the lines and accept flaws is a sad state of affair whether you are personally OK with it or not.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> A false dichotomy and totally funny coming from a Kiesel fan. How many wonky guitars have they shipped out. And what happens if they ship it out and you have an option 50?
> 
> In reality, people just have different expectations. You don't need to try to split people 50/50 and belittle one group as luthier gimps. I just get the things I care about agreed to in writing, and the things I don't care about much, like a tiny spec on an inlay, I don't care much about. Lessons learned the hard way, but I no longer have to karen out on the boards when things don't turn out alright. They've basically never turned out completely right, and I could have thrown a fit at any of them, but at some point, when something is off with *EVERY* build, from a diverse set of renown builders, the expectation problem is sadly no longer about the builder but about the buyer.


The sad part about this is that:

Rusti Guitars advertises guitars as meticulously crafted and undermines this with highly-photoshopped images of their guitar builds. Heck, even this EXTREMELY FLAWED build was advertised with the same kind of polished images and videos and still it was such a garbage guitar. How can you be sure that this was the only one of his guitars showing this bad workmanship?

I mean it is funny how so many different issues (even different level of the build) occured in one single build. It is very improbable that other builds are not flawed when looking at this mess. And also the builder's reaction of not acknowledging the faults but solely attributing them as "taste issues" is shocking. He even charges his customers for sending back guitars for corrections of his faults. Only under legal pressure he complies with common law.

Furthermore:
Rusti Guitars was so PROUD of this garbage guitar that they even used it as their facebook and instagram pic. How could anyone be proud when having constructed THAT guitar?


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Now you're being disingenuous on purpose.
> I'd be 100% with you that someone doing super zoomed-in pictures with cranked up contrast as the sole complaint would be out of their mind.
> 
> But here OP was the first to acknowledge in his post that those were minor inconsequential things that were no big deal, just like on his Skervy cosmetic issues.
> Not the reason he was unhappy with that particular guitar...



Then what are the valid issues? I've already said of course the trem was unacceptable, but at the same time, Rusti ultimately took it back, fixed it, AND sold it on to another guy at OP's request. If there's some issue he wouldn't fix, that was significant, I would be worried ordering from him. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Instead we get spectrograms and talk of it being "dead" because of "poor guitar design / build." On one hand, a tiny bit of kudos for the thought of bringing objective information here, but it's basically pseudoscience. Is it the guitar? Is it the pickups? Is it the playing? What was the guitars spectrogram supposed to look like? (And always do a mel or plot spectrograms in logspace)



mbardu said:


> I am not a fan of Kiesel just because I happen to think they can great guitars that used to be nice value too. Don't see how that's related anyway, but to your point, it's actually _exactly _why I always used to recommend the exact same thing when they're in the discussion. Order something "regular" from them so that you can try and return with absolutely 0 risk if you don't like. No drama at all. If you do something bespoke/50/non returnable, then yeah, it can be a world of hurt, and yeah sometimes it sucks. Just like other builders. Which is exactly the point  . But at least you also have the "safe" option that no one else even offers...



If this were a Kiesel build, it would be an op 50. And of course, a world of hurt for exactly these reasons.



mbardu said:


> Now to your point, _you _are the one trying to belittle OP by painting him as an ignorant nitpicker vs a wholesome professional Rusti, whereas the situation is way more nuanced (issues much bigger than small cosmetic flaws, many attempts at ignoring the issue, not offering a fix until threatened...the usual, basically).



I don't need to paint him that way when he's posting these photos for ant lawyers to go over. I went over the conversations. OP was super argumentative and unhelpful, and is surprised he couldn't find a reasonable solution here. Most reasonable people could have gotten the guitar to Rusti, had the trem fixed, probably had the shipping paid for, and got back a guitar free of significant issues. But OP uses this potpourri of nitpicks to paint this picture of the guitar being poorly built. It is obviously a pretty well built guitar with lots of fancy details executed better than most custom shops would. The trem cavity sucks, but again, fixable (and fixed, actually).


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> Then what are the valid issues? I've already said of course the trem was unacceptable, but at the same time, Rusti ultimately took it back, fixed it, AND sold it on to another guy at OP's request. If there's some issue he wouldn't fix, that was significant, I would be worried ordering from him. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. Instead we get spectrograms and talk of it being "dead" because of "poor guitar design / build." On one hand, a tiny bit of kudos for the thought of bringing objective information here, but it's basically pseudoscience. Is it the guitar? Is it the pickups? Is it the playing? What was the guitars spectrogram supposed to look like? (And always do a mel or plot spectrograms in logspace)



Well the trem is the biggest one indeed. Isn't that big enough?
The builder _did not_ want to acknowledge an issue there. Sent OP to the manufacturer of the trem. Said it was his personal preference which was wrong.
He did "ultimately" fix it (although, can you trust it if the geometry is wrong in the first place...) maybe. But you say "ultimately" as if that's a good move on the part of the builder. If that "ultimately" only comes after legal action threat, then that's kinda problematic, no?
Then there's the sound. You are still trying to diminish it by talking of pseudo-science, but even the builder acknowledged that the guitar shipped with defective components. Why did that pass QC?



narad said:


> If this were a Kiesel build, it would be an op 50. And of course, a world of hurt for exactly these reasons.



Agreed. That's why I tell people not to do it. That's why I said many times over that sometimes Kiesel also sucks in taking care of their customers. Not sure if quite the same- I'd think that if you showed Kiesel that their trem was not working (not just that you didn't like your custom finish or wood color), they'd take the guitar back - but who knows. Not sure where they are now, but they definitely had a period about a couple of years ago when they had very bad CS episodes. 
What gotcha are you trying to get at?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> Then what are the valid issues? I've already said of course the trem was unacceptable, but at the same time, Rusti ultimately took it back, fixed it, AND sold it on to another guy at OP's request. If there's some issue he wouldn't fix, that was significant, I would be worried ordering from him. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.
> 
> Instead we get spectrograms and talk of it being "dead" because of "poor guitar design / build." On one hand, a tiny bit of kudos for the thought of bringing objective information here, but it's basically pseudoscience. Is it the guitar? Is it the pickups? Is it the playing? What was the guitars spectrogram supposed to look like? (And always do a mel or plot spectrograms in logspace)
> 
> ...


You must be quite silly then. My first post of the chat with him had him stating that I have to pay the shipping cost. 

Pseudoscience... this is just a quick spectrum plot with a free software. Where are your peer-reviewed papers, sir? Collecting guitars? For what? For looking at them? Pathetic. I need guitars to function and not to hang on a wall and be on a forum signature, because balls help.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> You continue with _your _experience that _you _know that _your _custom orders will be flawed, even for many thousands, and that _you _don't care. That's fine, and _you do you_.
> But 1-that's just you, and maybe some people are allowed to feel differently, and 2-that's not how those builders advertise their work, so the fact that you have to read between the lines and accept flaws is a sad state of affair whether you are personally OK with it or not.


That's not a valid characterization of my point. My point is that those flaws exist on all guitars. It just depends on how deep you want to go. They're natural materials and processes. If there's a larger than average pore or something in the fretboard after radiusing, yea, I don't actually expect the whole board to come off to suit my expectation of a 5,000EUR instrument. If the bookmatch isn't a perfect mirror after carving the top, yea, I don't actually care. So if you're looking at inlay specs and bothering to post it here as part of your list of complaints, just don't bother placing a custom order, with anyone. Maybe invest in a fancy watch or something. 

Trem aside, I think most people ordering that level of guitar would have been happy with the delivered instrument, and would not have detailed the other 95% of things we have to listen to.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You must be quite silly then. My first post of the chat with him had him stating that I have to pay the shipping cost.
> 
> Pseudoscience... this is just a quick spectrum plot with a free software. *Where are your peer-reviewed papers, sir? *Collecting guitars? For what? For looking at them? Pathetic. I need guitars to function and not to hang on a wall and be on a forum signature, because balls help.



https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.07016 ?


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> That's not a valid characterization of my point. My point is that those flaws exist on all guitars. It just depends on how deep you want to go. They're natural materials and processes. If there's a larger than average pore or something in the fretboard after radiusing, yea, I don't actually expect the whole board to come off to suit my expectation of a 5,000EUR instrument. If the bookmatch isn't a perfect mirror after carving the top, yea, I don't actually care. So if you're looking at inlay specs and bothering to post it here as part of your list of complaints, just don't bother placing a custom order, with anyone. Maybe invest in a fancy watch or something.
> 
> Trem aside, I think most people ordering that level of guitar would have been happy with the delivered instrument, and would not have detailed the other 95% of things we have to listen to.



The bridge of the guitar being built wrong is pretty bad. The electronics being _literally _broken and incapable of producing a decent sound is pretty bad.
I guess yeah, if we're just talking about how pretty the guitar is, it definitely is pretty!
But if the guitar doesn't play well and doesn't sound good, you could just as well get a nice picture to look at rather than an actual guitar.

I don't get why you qualify things with "aside from x or y".
If that works then...I guess aside from it being a burrito and not a guitar, my burrito is a very good guitar too then 
But those "asides" can be pretty critical.



narad said:


> Maybe invest in a fancy watch or something.



And I can't wrap my head around that one. Saying "go invest in a watch or something" as if the main issue with the guitar here is the looks...whereas the looks are _secondary _to the fact that the guitar wasn't functional, and was incapable of sounding good... Isn't that backwards a bit? Considering on the previous page _you _were complimenting the guitar because of its fancy looks, _despite _its functional issues?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.07016 ?


That is embarassing... what journal is that? Damn... you should not have flexed with this.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> That is embarassing... what journal is that? Damn... you should not have flexed with this.



It's ICASSP, basically the highest rated (A1) speech and audio conference?


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## StevenC (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Where are your peer-reviewed papers, sir?





DirtyPuma said:


>


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> It's ICASSP, basically the highest rated (A1) speech and audio conference?


Who needs that? Never heard of, get into Nature.


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## StevenC (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Who needs that? Never heard of, get into Nature.


He probably doesn't even have a PhD.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Who needs that? Never heard of, get into Nature.



You don't see a lot of audio processing in Nature, typically.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

StevenC said:


> He probably doesn't even have a PhD.


I fear the same to be honest.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

Well now that's bad and unnecessary personal attacks...I can't get onboard with that


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Well now that's bad personal attacks...I can't get onboard with that


I apologize to that guy, but the flex was so weird and not needed.

Let's get back on topic, the guitar from Rusti Guitars and its issues.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I apologize to that guy, but the flex was so weird and not needed.
> 
> Let's get back on topic, the guitar from Rusti Guitars and its issues.



You literally asked for my peer reviewed publications like I wouldn't have any...

(Not to mention the other digs about collecting guitars / you're the player / I hang guitars on walls or something to look at. Talk about unnecessary.)


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## prlgmnr (Jul 19, 2022)

You should have just said "I'm German, I bought a guitar from an Italian and then started arguing about it with Americans" and we basically wouldn't have needed the actual thread, it would have all been intuitable logically from that point.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> You don't see a lot of audio processing in Nature, typically.


Ackchyually, auditory processing in animals is an interesting field too!
Funny enough, I did do a project for my master's thesis in a domain that was probably not too far from your link above (although more into separation for automated music transcription specifically).
Don't dox yourself though.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

Please get back to topic. Anyone working on any master theses is for another thread, sorry.


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## StevenC (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Please get back to topic. Anyone working on any master theses is for another thread, sorry.


I'm confused. What is the actual topic of this thread if not dunking on narad?


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## ArtDecade (Jul 19, 2022)

When we bought a Bentley a few years back, the computer was always giving us problems. And those had to be sourced from England. The dealership left us a Mercedes while the Bentley was in the shop and I fell in love with that car. It was half the cost but twice the build. What you pay is not always what you get - sometimes you get a Bentley that wants to run the windshield wipers on a sunny day.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> When we bought a Bentley a few years back, the computer was always giving us problems. And those had to be sourced from England. The dealership left us a Mercedes while the Bentley was in the shop and I fell in love with that car. It was half the cost but twice the build. What you pay is not always what you get - sometimes you get a Bentley that wants to run the windshield wipers on a sunny day.


I agree somehow.

The Rusti Guitars was crap so I got myself the Suhr. I am extremely happy with that guitar and know even more now how valuable a well functioning guitar is. Something you cannot expect from any builder as it seems, not even for 5 000 €.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

prlgmnr said:


> You should have just said "I'm German, I bought a guitar from an Italian and then started arguing about it with Americans" and we basically wouldn't have needed the actual thread, it would have all been intuitable logically from that point.



Arguing about it with an American_ in Japan_.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Arguing about it with an American_ in Japan_.


Japanese people are a lot about looks and details. So they would not agree that this guitar is OK at all. But then again there is also the mantra that any repaired breakage tells some story. I don't want to be told the story of a guitar builder who is not capable of building an up-to-standards guitar for 5 k in 2 years time each time I pick up my guitar.


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## StevenC (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I agree somehow.
> 
> The Rusti Guitars was crap so I got myself the Suhr. I am extremely happy with that guitar and know even more now how valuable a well functioning guitar is. Something you cannot expect from any builder, not even for 5 000 €.


Only one who has played nothing but entry level or trash may find a Suhr amazing.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Only one who has played nothing but entry level or trash may find a Suhr amazing.


Well then you are calling J custom and prestiges as well as Skervesen and Music Man crap I guess? OK. So far, I had nothing better.

Also, this is not adding value to my statement.


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## StevenC (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Well then you are calling J custom and prestiges as well as Skervesen and Music Man crap I guess? OK. So far, I had nothing better.
> 
> Also, this is not adding value to my statement.


Skervesen are bona fide grade A1 trash. I've been saying that for a decade now and I stand by it.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Skervesen are bona fide grade A1 trash. I've been saying that for a decade now and I stand by it.


Well, then the Rusti Guitars I got must be the pinnacle of trash. 🫡


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## xzacx (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Well the trem is the biggest one indeed. Isn't that big enough?
> The builder _did not_ want to acknowledge an issue there. Sent OP to the manufacturer of the trem. Said it was his personal preference which was wrong.
> He did "ultimately" fix it (although, can you trust it if the geometry is wrong in the first place...) maybe. But you say "ultimately" as if that's a good move on the part of the builder. If that "ultimately" only comes after legal action threat, then that's kinda problematic, no?
> Then there's the sound. You are still trying to diminish it by talking of pseudo-science, *but even the builder acknowledged that the guitar shipped with defective components. Why did that pass QC?*


The OP himself said "the issue did not pop up frequent enough to be much noticed in the short time at the shop." I think it's pretty unfair to put that on the builder when that's not who made that part. If there's a QC issue there, it's the manufacturer of the component. It's totally reasonable to believe it wasn't encountered when wiring it up. That kind of blame (along with trying to quantify someone as subjective as tone) IMO is what made people turn on the OP so fast.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 19, 2022)

xzacx said:


> The OP himself said "the issue did not pop up frequent enough to be much noticed in the short time at the shop." I think it's pretty unfair to put that on the builder when that's not who made that part. If there's a QC issue there, it's the manufacturer of the component. It's totally reasonable to believe it wasn't encountered when wiring it up. That kind of blame (along with trying to quantify someone as subjective as tone) IMO is what made people turn on the OP so fast.


@DirtyPuma to blast you in... 10... 9... 8... 7... 6...


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

xzacx said:


> The OP himself said "the issue did not pop up frequent enough to be much noticed in the short time at the shop." I think it's pretty unfair to put that on the builder when that's not who made that part. If there's a QC issue there, it's the manufacturer of the component. It's totally reasonable to believe it wasn't encountered when wiring it up. That kind of blame (along with trying to quantify someone as subjective as tone) IMO is what made people turn on the OP so fast.


This was just the drop in sound. The issue with the missing upper frequencies was there all the time on all pickups. It should have been noticed. You can even hear this on the provisional video of the guitar, even with all that editing and mixing on top.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

xzacx said:


> The OP himself said "the issue did not pop up frequent enough to be much noticed in the short time at the shop." I think it's pretty unfair to put that on the builder when that's not who made that part. If there's a QC issue there, it's the manufacturer of the component. It's totally reasonable to believe it wasn't encountered when wiring it up. That kind of blame (along with trying to quantify someone as subjective as tone) IMO is what made people turn on the OP so fast.


Maybe I misread then. I thought the guitar always sounded bad and unusable from the start.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Maybe I misread then. I thought the guitar always sounded bad and unusable from the start.


BTW Rusti Guitars is not even able to wire up these guitars themselves (although the guy builds electric guitars). He outsources any wiring to somewhere else, this is not disclosed in any official info. Same for paint jobs.

Therefore, he would not even be capable of checking any electronics.


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## StevenC (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Well, then the Rusti Guitars I got must be the pinnacle of trash. 🫡


That's certainly a possibility. Alternatively you might have no fucking clue what you're on about.


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## tian (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> https://arxiv.org/abs/2002.07016 ?


Got damn, hit him with the a full on arXiv pre-print and this shit is still going.

I haven't been sure what the goal of this thread has been since the second page. If it's not just trolling at this point, I don't know what to say. As precedent has shown, this sort of bickering only ends when one of the parties involved literally dies...


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## StevenC (Jul 19, 2022)

tian said:


> Got damn, hit him with the a full on arXiv pre-print and this shit is still going.


That's why they call him Dr J


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## nickgray (Jul 19, 2022)




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## Millul (Jul 19, 2022)

prlgmnr said:


> You should have just said "I'm German, I bought a guitar from an Italian and then started arguing about it with Americans" and we basically wouldn't have needed the actual thread, it would have all been intuitable logically from that point.



There's so much truth in this post, it hurts


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## Rusti (Jul 19, 2022)

I see some of you are still pointing out the *bridge “issue”*, which i briefly addressed in my first post, but here we go again, more in details. We’re getting technical:

Sophia Tremolo with Dual Stabilizer has 2 pins on the brass block: these two act like car suspensions allowing the bridge to go back to the flat position each time, assuring a better tune stability. When bridge is flat on the top they barely touch the cavity walls.

These two (as car suspension) have a mobility range:


When you divebomb they detach from the walls they were touching, float free (just like a car jumping over a bump) and the bridge can go until the strings have very little tension.
When you pull the armbar up the pins are pressed against the cavity walls and they don’t have infinite range (just like car suspension pressed against the ground): they have about 3mm range until they hit the walls and stop the bridge. These 3mm still convert into a good range for the baseplate and consequently the string tension.
The armbar usage feels like a perfectly normal bridge when divebombing, but you can feel the pins resistance when pulling the armbar up. That’s part of the game.

For how I designed and set the guitar, with a low string action, when pulling the armbar up the pins would reach the end of their range by touching the walls BEFORE the bridge base plate is touching the bridge cavity on the top. That is why a deeper cavity ISN’T needed.

When the customer started to complain about the setup I tried to guide him into it. When he later told me that the bridge was now set completely low and at the same time the strings action was very high I knew something was very wrong, but I couldn’t figure it out by WhatsApp, so I started asking him to send it back for a setup. The guitar was perfect before leaving here; it must have been just matter of setup. Or even if it wasn’t, I couldn’t tell what was going on without personally seeing the guitar.

Instead sending it back he decided to unmount the bridge and remove the pins (he didn’t like the resistance they made when pressed against the wall) and that’s when the brass block now pin-less, gets the free-motion range of a regular tremolo, and that’s when the bridge plate would hit the base of the routing. The bridge isn’t designed to be used that way and consequently neither the guitar.

It’s fine if a customer doesn’t like the way a feature (of a component he asked me to mount) works. It is fine if he decide to unmount it from his own guitar. It is NOT fine to complain about the new playability after the improper use of a tremolo (now pin-less) being used on a guitar designed to be used with pins, as it was order.

Proof that the guitar was actually fine is that when I’ve got it back it just needed a good setup, mounted back the pins, and I’ve added a little step routing for the wheel to work properly.

The incomplete usability of the wheel is my fault. When I asked Sophia about its use they gave me a few use for it, and I underestimated one of them, so I decided to keep it with zero gap. Still that was a quick fix and didn’t change the playability or the pins resistance that the customer didn’t like in first place. And YES, there was a 0.2mm gap between the 2 pins alignment, which I decided to compensate with the small paper\pads the bridge comes with. They also soften the pins when hitting the walls. I don’t really consider it a issue unless you are intentionally looking to point out imperfections. Fixed that with the route step mentioned a few lines ago.

At the end it was something I fixed quickly and easily but i honestly think the customer kept it took long trying to fix it on his own (this stuff went on for months) that he got sick of it and decided he didn’t want it anymore.

Do I need to mention that the electronics was working fine when it left from the shop?

Bye


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## Gango79 (Jul 19, 2022)

You should have just said "I'm German, I bought a guitar from an Italian and then started arguing about it with Americans" and we basically wouldn't have needed the actual thread, it would have all been intuitable logically from that

The world will be a better place thanks to people like you…and these clichés


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

Rusti said:


> I see some of you are still pointing out the *bridge “issue”*, which i briefly addressed in my first post, but here we go again, more in details. We’re getting technical:
> 
> Sophia Tremolo with Dual Stabilizer has 2 pins on the brass block: these two act like car suspensions allowing the bridge to go back to the flat position each time, assuring a better tune stability. When bridge is flat on the top they barely touch the cavity walls.
> 
> ...



Well I don't know... Nobody can really tell because we don't have the guitar in front of us in person, but the first picture at least makes it look like the angled trem block could possibly have touched the wood of the very narrow cavity when pulling, even despite the pins.

I'd be tempted to think "now...that's unlikely to happen, a good builder would probably do their homework on that". But of your admission, you're not super familiar with that unit and had to review the routing of the guitar _after the fact_ in order to enable the full function and what the manufacturer considers "correct" setup of the unit (with range in both directions).
Also saying "It is NOT fine to complain about the new playability after the improper use of a tremolo (now pin-less) being used on a guitar designed to be used with pins, as it was order"... Is that a conversation that was had specifically with the OP during order? What would be improper uses and proper uses that you'd allow? Because it sounds like this _is _a supported mode of the trem that was recommended by the manufacturer of the bridge in this case. Like, if I ordered a guitar that came stock with a tremol-no, but just removing the tremol-no now made the guitar non-functional and/or voided the warranty, that would be weird.

It's a shame at the end of the day. Especially- I bet the 200 extra the OP paid towards the build could easily have covered return shipping to fix things in person and get a happy customer instead of telling him "now it's yours, you have to pay to ship it back for a checkup if you're unhappy", especially on a prototype. Bickering and tone and who-said-what aside, in this scenario, you as a builder even benefitted by being able to get that real world feedback and make immediate fixes/improvements to the design as a result of that case.

At least I think it's a shame. I personally have only good things to say about the beautiful shape, finish and inlay work- and have no reason to believe it couldn't sound great with working electronics. Plus, it has the best feature ever in my book ie flush straplocks.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

Hello c


Rusti said:


> I see some of you are still pointing out the *bridge “issue”*, which i briefly addressed in my first post, but here we go again, more in details. We’re getting technical:
> 
> Sophia Tremolo with Dual Stabilizer has 2 pins on the brass block: these two act like car suspensions allowing the bridge to go back to the flat position each time, assuring a better tune stability. When bridge is flat on the top they barely touch the cavity walls.
> 
> ...


Hello Claudio, I see your talking bullshit again. 

The two stabilizer pins should make contact with the cavity at the same time. Since the way you routed the cavity / attached the bridge posts to that guitar, the bridge was actually crooked, meaning the pins did make contact at two different points of the motion. This is not as it is expected by the designer. The brige block should be parallel and have the poins make contact at the same time.

Furthermore, the global tuning wheel should be set in a way which has a 1 mm gap for the zero condition. How you routed everything, there was no gap at all. The global tuner wheel was not working as intended, since it only went in one direction. You could not go in the other direction, because the pins were too close to the cavity on that side. Therefore, the pins had to be removed to get the wheel setup as intended. No other way without changing cavity and therefore redoing a very basic part of the body.

Also the trem cavity is routed in a way, which makes the base plate (that thing were the single-string saddles are mounted on top) touch the cavity early on one side, therefore hindering a free-floating trem use. This is not as designed and intended. Neither as was told to you. This is just bad design.

And here we are, obvious faults from your side which were even acknowledged by the manufacturer of the CLS trems, who is acc. to you in "no position to tell" whether your cavity and bridge mounting is correct.

"Electronics was working fine when it left the shop!" Then tell me why the guitar already sounds quite muffled on the demo vids from Alessandro? I mean it is obvious when you know of the actual issue and that he did not dial in this sound (and I guess he even tried to alleviated this with the profiler / amp sim he used + editing and mixing). You did the same blame game for the chipped-off part of one of the wooden pup covers, until I pointed out to you that you can actually see this chip-off on the provisional pics before that guitar ever left your workshop. Wanna go back to page 1 and have another look at my evidence?

Halleluja!

Again, you did not provide any proof of the fixed things, you could just make things up here.
Pathetic.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Well I don't know... Nobody can really tell because we don't have the guitar in front of us in person, but the first picture at least makes it look like the angled trem block could possibly have touched the wood of the narrow cavity when pulling, even despite the pins.
> 
> I'd be tempted to think "now...that's unlikely to happen, a good builder would probably do their homework on that". But of your admission, you're not super familiar with that unit and had to review the routing of the guitar _after the fact_ in order to enable the full function and what the manufacturer considers "correct" setup of the unit (with range in both directions).
> Also saying "It is NOT fine to complain about the new playability after the improper use of a tremolo (now pin-less) being used on a guitar designed to be used with pins, as it was order"... Is that a conversation that was had specifically with the OP during order? What would be proper and improper uses? Because it sounds like this _is _a supported mode of the trem that was advised by the manufacturer of the bridge in this case. Like, if I ordered a guitar that came stock with a tremol-no, but just removing the tremol-no now made the guitar non-functional and/or voided the warranty, that would be weird.
> ...


To remove the pins is no mod, this is what Geoffrey from CSL trems told me to to in case the pins do not work out at all. And with that cavity and routing / mounting it was just not possible in any other way. And all of that for a 5 000 € price tag and 2 years waiting time.

The builder only came here with lame excuses and could not disprove any of the images I provided. Now you can imagine how discussion was with a builder who doesn't even know what the global tuner wheel is for, while he actually build it into his expensive guitar and then wants to charge YOU for shipping back a guitar for "setup" (although there are clear faults from his side, he even acknowledges this here openly, furthermore, he states that he had no clue about trem / cavity design / mount).

Just to stress this: the BASE PLATE of the trem and not the trem block touches the cavity of the trem when up-bending the trem unless you go for ridiculously high string-action (far above 2 mm). The whole cavity would have to be rerouted, actually the guitar body kind of brought back to initial stages. He took 2 years for the build in the bad shape it came in. How should that guy be able to fix this stuff in decent time (at all?). I have no trust in that luthier whatsoever at this point and this experience.

I am sorry, this is such a blame game and really sorry excuses for a sub-par product, which was shipped after a total of 2 years from deposit.


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## nickgray (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I am sorry, this is such a blame game and really sorry excuses for a sub-par product, which was shipped after a total of 2 years from deposit.



Just get a used Prestige.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Just get a used Prestige.


I would get a used 200 dollars RG rather than this mess of guitar from Rusti Guitars. His statements just do not match up with the evidence I provided, this makes matters even worse. Having to distrust a person is even worse than having to expect bad quality.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Just to stress this: the BASE PLATE of the trem and not the trem block touches the cavity of the trem when up-bending the trem unless you go for ridiculously high string-action (far above 2 mm). The whole cavity would have to be rerouted, actually the guitar body kind of brought back to initial stages. He took 2 years for the build in the bad shape it came in. How should that guy be able to fix this stuff in decent time (at all?). I have no trust in that luthier whatsoever at this point and this experience.



Oh wow, so you mean this picture, right: https://www.sevenstring.org/attachments/7-png.110846/ ?
I didn't even focus on that one but yeah, this looks like it's not going to give you a lot of "pull" range if you're looking for the full floating type of feel.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Oh wow, so you mean this picture, right: https://www.sevenstring.org/attachments/7-png.110846/ ?
> I didn't even focus on that one but yeah, this looks like it's not going to give you a lot of "pull" range if you're looking for the full floating type of feel.


This is exactly what I am referring to. The design was flawed on many levels, it was not just the bridge (and therefore pins) being crooked / misaligned AND the global tuner wheel not working as intended due to improper design, but the general bridge cavity was not routed correctly for any free-floating trem, there were issues with the electronics (and therefore sound, somehow two components were faulty at the same time, is this still called bad luck or bad quality?), then to complete the picture of bad quality there were many cosmetic flaws which I would actually not expect from a 5 000 € guitar.

But to make things clear, the imperfections alone would have been OK, but the whole package as it was and Rusti Guitars telling me that all is fine for months / referring me to the CSL guy and telling me the trem is at fault / the pickups are not to my liking and the guitar is OK… THIS is what makes you give a clear "NOT RECOMMENDED TO BUY" for Rusti Guitars.

Just as a small addition, since I did not mention this:
I was not able to get Claudio on the phone even once, since it seems that his English is lacking. We were only able to talk about these issues via mail / WhatsApp. Not even being able to talk to the builder makes this even a worse situation overall.


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## aWoodenShip (Jul 19, 2022)

I think for the first time I'm glad I'm poor and I just buy 1k used guitars and just... play them.


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## Rusti (Jul 19, 2022)

mbardu said:


> ...the first picture at least makes it look like the angled trem block could possibly have touched the wood of the narrow cavity when pulling, even despite the pins.


Like I said, the bridge wasn’t supposed to be set that low. It had a low action with a higher bridge position, which means he probably made a big relief on the neck.


mbardu said:


> _after the fact_ in order to enable the full function and what the manufacturer considers "correct" setup of the unit (with range in both directions)


The range of the bridge was correct in first place. The fix was only to make the Global Tuner (the wheel) work better. Which is about adjusting the tension of all the strings simultaneously.


mbardu said:


> Is that a conversation that was had specifically with the OP during order? What would be proper and improper uses?


Ordering a Sophia with Dual Stabilizers (pins) means to have all it's features. Removing the pins changes the bridge's mobility, but that's not how it was supposed to be used. It's like if you remove a spring from a tremolo, now it's softer but it doesn't stay in tune. In our case you remove the pins, it gains more range but it hits the routing it wasn't meant to hit. If you remove the pins from the bridge, the block remains with 2 big holes about 8mm diameter each. It's not supposed to be used that way. If you wish to not used them you mount a regular block.


mbardu said:


> instead of telling him "now it's yours, you have to pay to ship it back if you're unhappy".


For how was the situation described on my previous message, it looked like he unnecessarily messed up the setup on the instrument, nothing serious, that's why i told i would check the instrument and then refund the shipment in case it was my fault.


mbardu said:


> I bet the 200 extra the OP paid towards the build could easily have covered return shipping


He likes to brag about 200€ but he should remember why he did so. I highly underestimated the cost for the inlay work that i had outsourced (my old cnc wasn't that good at the time) and i let him know, but i told him that the quote was fixed so i would pay for the cost to cover that work. Lately he kindly decided to add 200€ to partially compensate my loss. It was a very kind thing, but let's contextualize it.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> This is exactly what I am referring to. The design was flawed on many levels, it was not just the bridge (and therefore pins) being crooked / misaligned AND the global tuner wheel not working as intended due to improper design, but the general bridge cavity was not routed correctly for any free-floating trem, there were issues with the electronics (and therefore sound, somehow two components were faulty at the same time, is this still called bad luck or bad quality?), then to complete the picture of bad quality there were many cosmetic flaws which I would actually not expect from a 5 000 € guitar.
> 
> But to make things clear, the imperfections alone would have been OK, but the whole package as it was and Rusti Guitars telling me that all is fine for months / referring me to the CSL guy and telling me the trem is at fault / the pickups are not to my liking and the guitar is OK… THIS is what makes you give a clear "NOT RECOMMENDED TO BUY" for Rusti Guitars.



Yeah no, so you should have led with that. 
People focus on the minutiae of the various finish flaws (which there are many of, we shouldn't' discount it even if they're only small and cosmetic) ... but then even that is kinda secondary.

If you bought a guitar supposed to have floyd-like floating bridge, and that's the range you can get...then it's clearly non functional, end of story.
I don't even know what fix to apply there. That's the kind of range I'd expect from a "vintage" or traditional type of bridge.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

Rusti said:


> Like I said, the bridge wasn’t supposed to be set that low. It had a low action with a higher bridge position, which means he probably made a big relief on the neck.
> 
> The range of the bridge was correct in first place. The fix was only to make the Global Tuner (the wheel) work better. Which is about adjusting the tension of all the strings simultaneously.
> 
> ...


Man stop talking about you not doing basic stuff correctly, such as invoices. If you're not even able to write a correct invoice with all expenses then this is not my fault and why it was "totally OK and understandable" that I paid you 200 € on top for that piece of garbage. When you fuck up the invoicing you just cannot come and upcharge stuff, that is not how any contract works. And now you use this as argumentation? At this time I am not even surprised that you were not capable of putting out a better guitar. Anyway, this thing was not worth 5 000 €, not even the 3 500 € we charged the second guy. I feel bad for him! But you did not offer any other option. To be honest you cannot fix that guitar up to a 5 000 € standard. You just cannot. Sorry. You made this pretty clear here.

You are again starting to write stuff which is not correct and not proven at all. "The neck relief was incorrect", yadayada. This is all made up. Go back, check my images and then come back again. There is a kind of complete picture of that thing not being OK for 5 000 € and here you are, still defending that crappy build? Now I am very sure that all your builds are that kind of quality and your customers just don't know better.

There are so many flaws which you just cannot (and you did neither) disprove. And still you are not able to acknowledge that this thing is sub-par and your fault. The blame is with me because I ordered the guitar. I ordered the pins so the guitar was OK as it is, although the trem route was incorrect in many ways.

You are a joke.


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## aWoodenShip (Jul 19, 2022)

What a time to be alive


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

Rusti said:


> Like I said, the bridge wasn’t supposed to be set that low. It had a low action with a higher bridge position, which means he probably made a big relief on the neck.
> 
> The range of the bridge was correct in first place. The fix was only to make the Global Tuner (the wheel) work better. Which is about adjusting the tension of all the strings simultaneously.



This picture doesn't indicate that the bridge would have a ton of range: https://www.sevenstring.org/attachments/7-png.110846/
Are you saying the trem posts should have been adjusted way up from how they are shown? They don't look too different in your "promo" shots.



Rusti said:


> Ordering a Sophia with Dual Stabilizers (pins) means to have all it's features. Removing the pins changes the bridge's mobility, but that's not how it was supposed to be used. It's like if you remove a spring from a tremolo, now it's softer but it doesn't stay in tune. In our case you remove the pins, it gains more range but it hits the routing it wasn't meant to hit. If you remove the pins from the bridge, the block remains with 2 big holes about 8mm diameter each. It's not supposed to be used that way. If you wish to not used them you mount a regular block.



Did you have the discussion of what you considered correct or incorrect use at the time of order? Because if it's a mode that the manufacturer supports, and sometimes recommends (like in this exact case), then it's a bit arbitrary to say "it's incorrect". U_nless you specifically had that discussion beforehad_. Just like the tremol-no example. Just like you're saying "the wheel not working is not a big deal", it shouldn't be up to you to decide after the fact which feature of the trem he is allowed to use or not, or which one he's allowed to consider important or not.
Again, unless you guys _specifically _had that agreement upfront.



Rusti said:


> He likes to brag about 200€ but he should remember why he did so. I highly underestimated the cost for the inlay work that i had outsourced (my old cnc wasn't that good at the time) and i let him know, but i told him that the quote was fixed so i would pay for the cost to cover that work. Lately he kindly decided to add 200€ to partially compensate my loss. It was a very kind thing, but let's contextualize it.



I literally just said that this same sum could have easily paid for a return shipping no question asked. No other comment.
No need to try and diminish ("_contextualize_") his kind move, _especially _if it was to help you out for an error that you made on your end in the first place.


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## nickgray (Jul 19, 2022)

You know, just for shits and giggle I looked up the trem's page and looked over OP's pictures. It seems OP is legitimately right, at least based on the pics he offered.

The trem's block was sitting crooked with respect to the trem cavity. The problem is that the block has those pins, it's just a trem stabilizer system - the pins push against the edge of the cavity to provide a better return from a pull-up. Obviously, it's a really good idea for both pins to be as parallel as possible to the edge of the trem cavity, which did not happen here. Forget the pins, the block should sit parallel to the edge of the cavity, pins or no pins, this would be a fuckup even in a $300 Indo with a licensed trem.

The second issue is that, correct me if I'm wrong, but OP wanted a fully floating trem. The builder delivered a decked trem - so dive only, with maybe some tiny room for a pull-up. That's a bit of an oopsie for a 5k euro guitar.

The global tuning wheel is beyond my comprehension, that's some NASA level shit.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

nickgray said:


> You know, just for shits and giggle I looked up the trem's page and looked over OP's pictures. It seems OP is legitimately right, at least based on the pics he offered.
> 
> The trem's block was sitting crooked with respect to the trem cavity. The problem is that the block has those pins, it's just a trem stabilizer system - the pins push against the edge of the cavity to provide a better return from a pull-up. Obviously, it's a really good idea for both pins to be as parallel as possible to the edge of the trem cavity, which did not happen here. Forget the pins, the block should sit parallel to the edge of the cavity, pins or no pins, this would be a fuckup even in a $300 Indo with a licensed trem.
> 
> ...


You summarized my trem issues quite well. And here I was told by the manufacturer of said guitar (even once again here in this thread) that this was my fault. I "messed up the setup" by bringing it to a professional guitar tech to get a "setup done" and my warranty was voided.

Then I phoned the CSL owner in California to ask him about correct setting of his trem and in the end he acknowledged that the cavity is faulty and "that Rusti guy" should take care of this. Still, he did not agree to correct the issues and have the guitar shipped for free from the beginning. I had to write a report on these issues and talk about "going to court" before anything got rolling.

I mean no one would assume that said / shown tremolo is NOT designed as a free-floating system / Floyd-style.

Then again, Mr. Rustignoli was so busy with "other builds" that all I got were some "advices" per WhatsApp with the statement that "all was well when the guitar shipped to you, this is not possible".


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## nickgray (Jul 19, 2022)

You know, it's way easier to see if you just rotate the picture. I'm guessing the trem posts are not aligned properly.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

nickgray said:


> You know, it's way easier to see if you just rotate the picture. I'm guessing the trem posts are not aligned properly.
> 
> View attachment 110995


I mean, this could be true. But not only not "aligned" but also not taking the functionality of the trem into consideration when thinking about the correct setup of that tuning wheel… that guy just did not understand trems at all it seems to me.


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## nickgray (Jul 19, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I mean, this could be true



Depending on your perspective you could say the cavity was crooked. Jokes aside, I don't see how it can be anything else, the posts don't sit on a straight line, they were lined up tune-o-matic style


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Depending on your perspective you could say the cavity was crooked. Jokes aside, I don't see how it can be anything else, the posts don't sit on a straight line, they were lined up tune-o-matic style


But then again, since this is one of the few steps which is not done by CNC for the body (maybe this is CNC as well), how can someone charging 5 000 € for a guitar fuck this up? This is not OK at all. And still I am called out by him as the one to blame. Good customer service until the end!

Maybe he is going to blame the "bad old CNC" now…


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## Rusti (Jul 19, 2022)

These are the plans for that guitar.
With the bridge set to a height lower than needed (strings are touching the frets).
When lowering it, it stops at the 3mm range of the pin before the bridge plate can touch its routing.
In a real setup the bridge will start from a higher position in orderd to have a playable action, therefore, a little more room under the baseplate.
This is the room needed when ordering a Sophia with Dual Stabilizer. Any routing lower than that isn't needed.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 19, 2022)

Rusti said:


> These are the plans for that guitar.
> With the bridge set to a height lower than needed (strings are touching the frets).
> When lowering it, it stops at the 3mm range of the pin before the bridge plate can touch its routing.
> In a real setup the bridge will start from a higher position in orderd to have a playable action, therefore, a little more room under the baseplate.
> ...


Sorry Claudio, but why is the actual state of the guitar then different from what you provide and state here? 

You're only making a fool of yourself. The bridge was crooked, cavity not acc. to what the tuner wheel requires, and obviously the trem motion was not enough on the guitar you sent me. Just check the promotional pics and mine. Setup was not changed in any way to create such issues.

Why is the cavity done at all this way and not having aditional routing for the base plate? This is amateur. 

Then what about the different sound / electronic issues / chip-off and cosmetic issues / ... this is by no means 5 000 € standard. That is a cheap product, not more.

You keep trying to tell us that all was good, although images clearly proof otherwise.

How would you be able to execute anything acc. to any plan when not even being able to mount a trem block straight?

Funny also how your plan shows the global tuner block with the correct tiny gap here although this was different in my build as seen in the images. You even stated this gap was not there.

Also: when adjusting the tuning wheel you can easily set the trem in your plan to not be blocked by the pins but actually the base plate. You are still not understanding the trem I guess. All of this is also dependend on string gauge / how you set the springs / etc. It is even possible to adjust the pin movement, there are different parts which can be added / removed in these pins. This is all designed functionality.


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## dmlinger (Jul 19, 2022)

Conspiracy theory…now hear me out. 

DirtyPuma actually still has the Rusti and wants to sell it on SSO. However, we have a 100 post minimum to post in the classifieds here, so DP made this thread knowing it will cause mass argument, thus driving up his post count so he can sell the guitar in our classifieds!!! 

It all makes sense.


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## aWoodenShip (Jul 19, 2022)

dmlinger said:


> Conspiracy theory…now hear me out.
> 
> DirtyPuma actually still has the Rusti and wants to sell it on SSO. However, we have a 100 post minimum to post in the classifieds here, so DP made this thread knowing it will cause mass argument, thus driving up his post count so he can sell the guitar in our classifieds!!!
> 
> It all makes sense.


For 7k you can own a piece of SSO history! It'll be such a nice conversation piece. "I got to watch adults melt down on the internet through walls of text."


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

Rusti said:


> These are the plans for that guitar.
> With the bridge set to a height lower than needed (strings are touching the frets).
> When lowering it, it stops at the 3mm range of the pin before the bridge plate can touch its routing.
> In a real setup the bridge will start from a higher position in orderd to have a playable action, therefore, a little more room under the baseplate.
> ...



I'd think most floating trems of that sort would have a shelf higher for where the posts are anchored, or extra routing deeper for where the base plate is rotating when pulling. Or just all routed out/open altogether where the baseplate can go. If you want it full floating of course. It's there in your drawing too.
It doesn't look to be there in OP's pictures though, where the posts seem to be anchored at the same flat level as the wood under the baseplate (restricting movement).


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

One thing to come out of this thread... found this, daammmn:















Not sure the cavity has changed but he's in the habit of using the sophia on things now.


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## nickgray (Jul 19, 2022)

Rusti said:


> Any routing lower than that isn't needed.



In OP's pic there's like 2-3mm of room at most between the baseplate and the route. You're not doing any whammy tricks with this, you'll maybe coax a semitone out of it if we're being really generous. I highly doubt the OP had the strings flush with the 24th fret either in that picture, that just makes no sense. But even if the did, a few extra mm wouldn't do anything.

There's a reason why virtually every trem that's supposed to go freely both ways is recessed. It's not just supposed to go just a semitone up, or even a tone, you should be able to hit a natural harmonic and go completely bananas.


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## Matt08642 (Jul 19, 2022)

Couldn't the neck just be shimmed and the posts raised to compensate? Not taking in to account anything else, just thinking of the trem functionality. As far as I can tell, the trem was never going to be able to pull up more than a tiny bit because of how shallow the route is? Even in the pics from the site:




If it left the shop like this with perfect fretwork and no buzz etc, it would still not pull up very far at all?

Damn I'm dumb as hell, @nickgray post above mine is the exact same thing


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## Thesius (Jul 19, 2022)

Everytime I have opened SSO today there has been a "NGD Rusti Guitars Lotus #1 headless
x 1 minute ago". Y'all wild in this thread.


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## narad (Jul 19, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> Couldn't the neck just be shimmed and the posts raised to compensate? Not taking in to account anything else, just thinking of the trem functionality. As far as I can tell, the trem was never going to be able to pull up more than a tiny bit because of how shallow the route is? Even in the pics from the site:
> 
> View attachment 111001
> 
> ...



And same as he's doing now, no?


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## Matt08642 (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> And same as he's doing now, no?
> 
> View attachment 111002



I wish someone would make a video with one of these guitars demonstrating the pull up range lol.


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## mbardu (Jul 19, 2022)

narad said:


> And same as he's doing now, no?
> 
> View attachment 111002



This one at least has a clear dropoff/extra routing to give at least some space under the plate. Unlike OP's guitar.


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## Dayn (Jul 19, 2022)

Well, there went my lunch break.

Putting pretty much everything to the side, including the tiny things, the finish flaws are at least no worse than my two WMI guitars.


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## nickgray (Jul 19, 2022)

Thesius said:


> Everytime I have opened SSO today there has been a "NGD Rusti Guitars Lotus #1 headless
> x 1 minute ago". Y'all wild in this thread.



You should've been here for the black limba pickups


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

narad said:


> One thing to come out of this thread... found this, daammmn:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Remember, my guitar was advertised with the same kind of images and all looked great from afar. All people drooling over the looks on these images, but when up close and personal, the guitar was utter crap for that price tag. 

Of course, I can only talk for my one guitar, but it was not just one flaw on it but a myriad of issues which should not be there (check the images at the start of the thread).

Worst thing is Rusti Guitars' reaction from start to finish and how he still believes that my guitar was all right from the start and there was nothing which needed a fix. Now you can imagine how things went back then and why I had to resort to legal push.

But OK, that's what you get for paying that amount of money and waiting so long. Should have started to have my doubts when he started to bring up excuses why the build still not started / was not where one would expect it to be / was nit progressing. So many red flags actually.

And I could even imagine him telling his "customers" (friends) to just come here and try to disprove my review. This is also what happened here before, arguing without disproving the initial post. But nothing in these images and how I described the guitar can be disproven. There is enough evidence against Rusti Guitars and to show that my build was sub-par on several levels.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> Couldn't the neck just be shimmed and the posts raised to compensate? Not taking in to account anything else, just thinking of the trem functionality. As far as I can tell, the trem was never going to be able to pull up more than a tiny bit because of how shallow the route is? Even in the pics from the site:
> 
> View attachment 111001
> 
> ...


Of course, you could shim the neck and raise the posts to ridiculous height. But this would make playing a pain in my opinion. That's not what you expect at 5 000 € price point and 2 year wait time. And again, all was fine acc. To him and he still says so. Only a setup needed and I should pay the shipping costs. I mean "yeah let's ship a 5 000 € guitar at my cost to a workshop which was not able to build it and which tells me that all on these images / videos / sound clips is fine and then be told that it is just as good as when it left the workshop". Another 300 € into the drain.  Maybe even the guitar damaged? (Actually this happened when I send it back, although I send it back the same way it came, but that's another story and has nothing to do with the guitar review.)

Also the crooked trem / not working global tuner wheel / fucked up electronics / all other cosmetic flaws (I would also like to point out the fail in the weight category, kind of bad plannig, I was never made aware that this cannot work out as I told him) would still not be corrected by just shimming the neck.

There is quality service (usually not cheap), there is quick service (usually not cheap), and then there is Rusti service (i.e. taking forever with sub-par results, very expensive).


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## Gango79 (Jul 20, 2022)

every time i open this thread I see a reply of the Puma. Mate you definitely stop this stupid crusade. You are not for luthiery. You definitely are a Guitar Center guy…you have to try a guitar, put your hands on it, check if there are any flaws, and only then buy it.


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## prlgmnr (Jul 20, 2022)

dmlinger said:


> Conspiracy theory…now hear me out.
> 
> DirtyPuma actually still has the Rusti and wants to sell it on SSO. However, we have a 100 post minimum to post in the classifieds here, so DP made this thread knowing it will cause mass argument, thus driving up his post count so he can sell the guitar in our classifieds!!!
> 
> It all makes sense.


This thread really needs the new owner to drop in.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I agree that the minor cosmetic flaws were not the reason why I think this guitar is made in a cheap fashion. It is all things taken together which make this guitar so awful. This is just by no means 5 000 € standard. I even own another custom guitar in that price range and it is FAR superior (a Skervesen, so I recommend them over Rusti Guitars a 1 000 times, but they are also not perfect, but they care if you complain about something and do not brush it off as "your taste").
> 
> But people are coming to this thread and performing damage control for Rusti Guitars and blame the customer, although the guitar was shipped in an extremely bad condition for a 5 k instrument. It had nothing to do with the customer up to that point.



This has been a fucking wild read, how does a thread double in length in less than 24 hours  DirtyPuma, simple request can you show Rusti brushing off your initial complaints and mocking you, etc.

Like at the end of the day, all the back and forth about quality and standards and what good CS should be and that Rusti didn't provide is just regurgitated white noise.

OP's first posts were informative and insanely detailed, and *he has every right to be upset about an imperfect instrument*. The reason I asked for context from the conversation was that claims were being made and instead of making conjecture based on claims, I'd rather just see it for myself and inform myself of what actually happened.

1) Guitar was ordered, then finished and demo'd by a third party at the request of Rusti.
2) Delivered with a number of issues (Functional/Cosmetic/Sonic/Structural), all are valid reasons for complaint.
- The cosmetic issues fall lower on the spectrum of severity *OBVIOUSLY
*- The sound issue is quantified and was tied to a faulty part, the easiest of these to fix
- The other issues are entirely valid and objectionable
3) Rusti apparently mocked OP/Brushed off any sense of responsibility at first contact,* I want this established.*
4) After some back and forth and legal threats were made, an offer to "setup" (Implied repair) was extended
5) OP Rejected the offer due to costs of shipping, gets the guitar looked at locally instead.
6) Rusti nullifies the guitars warranty (Pickup Replacement, Fret reseating, Setup, Trem Disassembly & Reassembly)
- He offers to resell the instrument after taking the guitar in and addressing all the issues at a loss to OP
7) They go through with this and the transaction ends here.

OP is out his time and 1k+, it's not a hard statement to make that his experience was far from positive and that things could have been handled better. I can also make the statement that OP's rhetoric can make him difficult to deal with, but you could also argue that it never would have escalated to that point with a better initial response.

The complaints about the miniscule stuff doesn't invalidate the more egregious issues, but I would open with the functional/structural issues and hinge on that to get a repair/replacement/return. Not the minimal stuff that under regular tolerances, most customers commissioning *HANDMADE *goods ultimately will never complain about. Handmade is not production, it will never be you will absolutely find miniscule imperfections if you look for them in handmade goods.


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## narad (Jul 20, 2022)

prlgmnr said:


> This thread really needs the new owner to drop in.



Would be nice to hear from him / see a vid of him trying to work the trem.

But one thing I did see is maybe OP's reverb listing for this guitar?









Rusti Guitars Lotus #1 (2021, incl. 2 pairs of pickups) | Reverb


I am selling my nearly brandnew Lotus from Rusti Guitars (finished April/May of 2021).The guitar is in mint condition, pickups and 3-way pickup selector were professionally switched at a guitar tech. Original pickups are included.It is the prototype of his most recent guitar line — a 6-string hea...




reverb.com





If this isn't OP's then I apologize, but are you telling me you start all this fuss, document all these "problems" that obviously to you are serious, and then you write a for sale ad that doesn't mention any of them? Is that the type of person we're dealing with? You call the guitar trash that sounds "dead", has a non-functioning trem, etc., and just pass it off like it's a perfectly working guitar? I mean, you gotta choose at some point.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

narad said:


> Would be nice to hear from him / see a vid of him trying to work the trem.
> 
> But one thing I did see is maybe OP's reverb listing for this guitar?
> 
> ...



That is.. not great


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## Rusti (Jul 20, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> 6) Rusti nullifies the guitars warranty (Pickup Replacement, Fret reseating, Setup, Trem Disassembly & Reassembly)
> - He offers to resell the instrument after taking the guitar in and addressing all the issues at a loss to OP


Nope, as mentioned, i never told him the warranty was nullified. Actually i had to pray him to not sell the guitar in the condition he left it, i paid for the shipment and fixed it, then found him a new owner. He had nothing to lose at that point, so he agreed let me have it back so he would be free of responsibility toward the new customer.


narad said:


> Is that the type of person we're dealing with?


Wouldn't it be funny?


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## Alessandro Zilio (Jul 20, 2022)

Dude where are you going with this? it very quickly turned from a sharing my story to trying in any way possible to publicly roast Rusti guitars. Let me tell you that if you act like this, months after the situation was already sorted out, providing screenshots that only make you like like you're not able to sustain a polite conversation, it just confirms that your acting immature trying to get your tiny personal revenge.
I once had an EBMM Majesty that broke multiple times while brand new which was the shittiest experience i ever had with an instrument, but i never did something like this mate, if people ask me yeah i'll just tell 'em what happened and why i personally will never go back to that, but there are so many happy customers that i don't ever care about doing some shitshow like you did, i'm just happy that was over.
And lastly i think that having a person, the one that made the guitar himself, to refer to directly for your issues is just a privilege, but we all crearly saw how difficult it would be if someone faced a customer with a behaviour like yours.
I really hope you'll move on from this since that's what you were supposed to have done by now since the last 6 months or so when this story was already over.
Bye


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

narad said:


> Would be nice to hear from him / see a vid of him trying to work the trem.
> 
> But one thing I did see is maybe OP's reverb listing for this guitar?
> 
> ...


As mentioned before, since Rusti Guitars did not confirm that any of these were issues and offering no return, not even at 50 % of the price, I was forced to sell the instrument. Acc. to Rusti Guitars "all is fine". He even had the guitar checked in his workshop, read the add more closely. So I have no reason to state the guitar was not good. It is just a "Rusti Guitars" and it seems that is what Rusti Guitars are. They just have issues. This is not out of line, this ist just a Rusti Guitar, as advertised. The condition is indeed "mint", the guitar is as came. So, there is no issue here from a selling point. I wanted Rusti to sell this, because it is a shame to have to sell this crap yourself. But again, Rusti Guitars thinks the guitar is great and 5 000 € worth in price, well then my price was good enough in the end?

Also, I was against selling this, I repeat myself.



Alessandro Zilio said:


> Dude where are you going with this? it very quickly turned from a sharing my story to trying in any way possible to publicly roast Rusti guitars. Let me tell you that if you act like this, months after the situation was already sorted out, providing screenshots that only make you like like you're not able to sustain a polite conversation, it just confirms that your acting immature trying to get your tiny personal revenge.
> I once had an EBMM Majesty that broke multiple times while brand new which was the shittiest experience i ever had with an instrument, but i never did something like this mate, if people ask me yeah i'll just tell 'em what happened and why i personally will never go back to that, but there are so many happy customers that i don't ever care about doing some shitshow like you did, i'm just happy that was over.
> And lastly i think that having a person, the one that made the guitar himself, to refer to directly for your issues is just a privilege, but we all crearly saw how difficult it would be if someone faced a customer with a behaviour like yours.
> I really hope you'll move on from this since that's what you were supposed to have done by now since the last 6 months or so when this story was already over.
> Bye



Now come on… if you paid 5 000 € for a new custom guitar, then received this thing which was riddled with issues and at the end of the day you are just told by the person who built and sold you that thing that "all this is OK, it is a matter of setup". Who would not be upset? After months of conversations and realizing the situation one is actually in, anyone would be, some might be pissed much, much worse, let me tell you.

And I have every right to write this review. Then the builder once again chimes in and discredits my review, then goes on claiming that the trem is alright, the sound was "a 5-min fix", and the cosmetic issues are not addressed at all (but OK that seems to just be his low standard). Let me remind you all that each guitar is man made. I don't recall any guitar being 100 % built by a machine without any QC. Rusti Guitars is using CNC for the big part of the work and then mostly doing a sanding job. Please don't call this "all by hand", it is not. There are luthiers who actually do all by hand, no power tools whatsoever.

Comparing my experience to your EBMM which came of the shelf is not comparable. For any normal dealer, you just show them the issue and they do their best to help you. They do not start to tell you that this is all as it should be. That it is only setup. Furthermore, they do not charge you the shipment when things are obviously not OK. This is regulated per law.



Rusti said:


> Nope, as mentioned, i never told him the warranty was nullified. Actually i had to pray him to not sell the guitar in the condition he left it, i paid for the shipment and fixed it, then found him a new owner. He had nothing to lose at that point, so he agreed let me have it back so he would be free of responsibility toward the new customer.
> 
> Wouldn't it be funny?



You had to pray that I do not sell it in the condition "I" left it in? Sorry, what a statement… you build that guitar? You messed up the trem? You had some guy (not part of Rusti Guitars) do the electronics job and were not able to check them (do you even play guitar?). Then again, what I did is just remove the pins from the trem / change the strings / change the pups at a professional tech, nothing else? There was never this "warped neck" and massive change in truss rod action you are talking about. You make up stuff and try to brush off the relevant stuff here.


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## Pietjepieter (Jul 20, 2022)

Damn that was a cool read....

Sick guitar, I want a Rusti now 

I have a couple of custom guitars, and if I look hard enough they all have imperfections. Makes also sence since even if you pay lets say 5000 euro including taxes it is still bullshit money for something handmade. 
I mean lets say 1000 euro for hardware and wood, leaves us with 4000 euro for work (I know less with taxes, but Hey I am lazy) than if we say each hour work is around 40 euro ( salary / tools / rental workshop etc.) then he can spend around 100 hours by building this instrument.... not that much compare to the level of detail of such a instrument....

I completely agree with everyone always should have a working and sick playing / sounding instrument for that kind of money. and for the price it should be well constructed, sick looking etc. 
But small imperfections i think to some level you should accept with such detaild instrumets, just the inlays in the neck. I assume it is a lot of work, work time time is money. So a level of imperfection keeps this kind of instruments affordable.


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## narad (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> As mentioned before, since Rusti Guitars did not confirm that any of these were issues and offering no return, not even at 50 % of the price, I was forced to sell the instrument. Acc. to Rusti Guitars "all is fine". He even had the guitar checked in his workshop, read the add more closely. So I have no reason to state the guitar was not good. It is just a "Rusti Guitars" and it seems that is what Rusti Guitars are. They just have issues. This is not out of line, this ist just a Rusti Guitar, as advertised. The condition is indeed "mint", the guitar is as came. So, there is no issue here from a selling point. I wanted Rusti to sell this, because it is a shame to have to sell this crap yourself. But again, Rusti Guitars thinks the guitar is great and 5 000 € worth in price, well then my price was good enough in the end?
> 
> Also, I was against selling this, I repeat myself.



If there are issues with a guitar that you are aware of, you disclose them to potential buyers when you sell it. What a terribly dishonest person.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> This has been a fucking wild read, how does a thread double in length in less than 24 hours  DirtyPuma, simple request can you show Rusti brushing off your initial complaints and mocking you, etc.
> 
> Like at the end of the day, all the back and forth about quality and standards and what good CS should be and that Rusti didn't provide is just regurgitated white noise.
> 
> ...


I value that you list the stuff here more or less neutrally, however seeing you as a Rusti Guitars customer I (checked your posts) see the conflict of interest here again, same as Gango79. Then suddenly, Gango, you, Alessandro, and Claudio (Rusti Guitars) come in and try to defend something which cannot be defended.

The guitar was in seriously bad condition when looking at the price tag. Rusti Guitars does until now not acknowledge the faulty trem design. There was no way out, he was telling me to sell it. So I just did. And now the same guy tries to blame me for this? Should I have burnt that thing down to a crisp?  Would that be the solution?

I do not think I need to go further into this rabbit hole of proving stuff, my posts so far (and Rusti Guitars' reaction here) are well enough proof to inform any future buyer. You could see that he told me to ship the guitar at my expense to do "setup" and all is as intended. I mean how is that not making fun of a buyer after a lengthy (for months) discussion via WhatsApp (the guy is not able to phone) and provision of many image examples.

To correct your thinking:
I started with the weird and openly incorrect things when trying to get Rusti correcting the guitar. The trem. The electronics. The cosmetic flaws were brought up when I could not take his excuses any more that "all is fine", "this is how it should function".


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

narad said:


> If there are issues with a guitar that you are aware of, you disclose them to potential buyers when you sell it. What a terribly dishonest person.


There are no issues, the guitar is fine as it was. This is what Rusti Guitars said. It is a "Rusti Guitars". These are just like this. The guitar was mint condition. Pups swapped, pins removed. Now you try to blame me for selling something off at 60 to 70 % of the price, although it was mint and still had the warranty? Rusti even checked the guitar in his workshop himself?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Pietjepieter said:


> Damn that was a cool read....
> 
> Sick guitar, I want a Rusti now
> 
> ...


Man that is such a weird statement. The guitar lacked functionality, trem is goofed up, electronics was a mess for several issues, the imperfections are not the issue here. Still, there were quite some imperfections which I never had on other custom / of the shelf guitars. Some even made "BY HAND" and not "BY CNC" (Rusti Guitars is a CNC guy, so nothing about "handmade", the inlay is CNC'ed then resin'ed, I mean there is not much work left than sanding and fretting).

I would advise to anyone looking for a well-working and quality instrument to look somewhere else.


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## narad (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> There are no issues, the guitar is fine as it was. This is what Rusti Guitars said. It is a "Rusti Guitars". These are just like this. The guitar was mint condition. Pups swapped, pins removed. Now you try to blame me for selling something off at 60 to 70 % of the price, although it was mint and still had the warranty? Rusti even checked the guitar in his workshop himself?


If that was the case, then WTF would you make this thread and incessantly trash the guitar for 13 pages? Either, the guitar was fine and this thread is bullshit. Or the guitar was not fine, and you withheld knowledge of all of these flaws from a potential buyer. Either way, the only clear conclusion from this thread is to not do business with _you_.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

narad said:


> If that was the case, then WTF would you make this thread and incessantly trash the guitar for 13 pages? Either, the guitar was fine and this thread is bullshit. Or the guitar was not fine, and you withheld knowledge of all of these flaws from a potential buyer. Either way, the only clear conclusion from this thread is to not do business with _you_.


The guitar was mint. Check your vocabulary. This is a Rusti Guitars. They come like this. The condition was like new. There was nothing to disclose. I disliked the guitar, but all was good acc. to Rusti Guitars and warranty still valid. Ask the MAKER Rusti Guitars why he kept telling me that the guitar is fine. Then we see who in here is dishonest.


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## narad (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> The guitar was mint. Check your vocabulary. This is a Rusti Guitars. They come like this. The condition was like new. There was nothing to disclose. I disliked the guitar, but all was good acc. to Rusti Guitars and warranty still valid. Ask the MAKER Rusti Guitars why he kept telling me that the guitar is fine. Then we see who in here is dishonest.



Well maybe I'll get that Nature paper after all. It seems I have discovered the Schrödinger's Karen, who exists in a superposition of everything-is-perfect and this-is-fucking-trash, and collapses into one of the two outcomes depending on whether he's writing a for sale ad or a product review.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

narad said:


> Well maybe I'll get that Nature paper after all. It seems I have discovered the Schrödinger's Karen, who exists in a superposition of everything-is-perfect and this-is-fucking-trash, and collapses into one of the two outcomes depending on whether he's writing a for sale ad or a product review.


Riciculous post. Sale price was agreed to be 3 500 €. For a mint guitar, some months old, full warranty, and totally fine acc. to Rusti Guitars. You see the funny thing here? Acc. to the builder, the guitar is indeed fine. But I review it to be bad. Something being bad and something being in bad condition are two totally different things. A sales add is not about review. I want to see you adding reviews to the gear you sell. 

Please get back to topic, which is the quality of the guitars which are built and delivered by Rusti Guitars, custom shop in Italy.



narad said:


> If that was the case, then WTF would you make this thread and incessantly trash the guitar for 13 pages? Either, the guitar was fine and this thread is bullshit. Or the guitar was not fine, and you withheld knowledge of all of these flaws from a potential buyer. Either way, the only clear conclusion from this thread is to not do business with _you_.



Furthermore, I provided a detailed review and pointed out all issues, this is all well documented at the start of the thread. This is not "trashing" for no reason. Then Rusti Guitars came in and talked these issues down, although they are indeed serious. The minor cosmetic flaws is not what this thread is about. But they are part of the bigger problem here, which is the bad build quality of that shop.


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## StevenC (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> The guitar was mint. Check your vocabulary. This is a Rusti Guitars. They come like this. The condition was like new. There was nothing to disclose. I disliked the guitar, but all was good acc. to Rusti Guitars and warranty still valid. Ask the MAKER Rusti Guitars why he kept telling me that the guitar is fine. Then we see who in here is dishonest.


No but there's a difference here. Your ad doesn't mention anything "according to Rusti" and presents it as a new functional guitar with a warranty. 

Your thread doesn't present this as a guitar you didn't like but as a nonfunctional guitar. And selling a nonfunctional guitar without disclosing that is incredibly dishonest.

Like if I list a Skervesen for sale as brand new for Skervesen, you buy it and receive a typical Skervesen. But then complain to me that I sold you a nonfunctional guitar and I say you should have expected as much from a Skervesen, then all its fine? 

I'm sorry, but either this thread is all a lie or you're a con artist.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

StevenC said:


> No but there's a difference here. Your ad doesn't mention anything "according to Rusti" and presents it as a new functional guitar with a warranty.
> 
> Your thread doesn't present this as a guitar you didn't like but as a nonfunctional guitar. And selling a nonfunctional guitar without disclosing that is incredibly dishonest.
> 
> ...


Again, this is taking things out of context. Rusti Guitars wanted me to sell the guitar and told me a "reasonable price". I asked him what I should answer to the people "why I am selling that guitar". He told me that the guitar "is fine" acc. to him and nothing wrong with it. And that is how I sold it. I wanted HIM to sell it under HIS name, but he did not comply at all. Since he presented this option we had two ways:

Settle this as he proposed.
Bring this to court.

Which way do you prefer? Only for your info: Rusti had the guy who bought this even check the guitar himself, so there was nothing wrong with it in the end. I never heard back, no complaint nothing. I would have handled it differently than Rusti Guitars, I can tell you.

Just leaving this here  ("It is not working as you wish, which is different"):


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## StevenC (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Again, this is taking things out of context.


Not really. According to this thread:

Did you sell the guitar? Yes.
Did you think the guitar had objective issues that made it unplayable? Yes.
Did you disclose these objective issues in the ad? No.

Scammer.


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## xzacx (Jul 20, 2022)

Sorry, but a guitar that’s had multiple repairs that aren’t disclosed and a trem that still has issues, and is also listed as “mint,” just doesn’t work. You can’t hide behind “but Rusti said it’s fine” when you’re the one selling it and saying otherwise.


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## Xaeldaren (Jul 20, 2022)

This thread is getting me through a rough patch of very little sleep; this is squabbling at its juiciest. Thank you all. 

The highest tier of guitar I experienced prior to getting my Mayones was Ibanez Prestige. I lucked out on getting an amazingly-specced Duvell for just over €3,000, and I cannot imagine spending more on an instrument. That thing is just sublime; I can't conceive of a guitar being better. However, I only bought the Duvell after going a bit nuts after breaking up with my fiancée; there's no way I'd have ever been able to justify that much on a guitar in my right mind.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Xaeldaren said:


> This thread is getting me through a rough patch of very little sleep; this is squabbling at its juiciest. Thank you all.
> 
> The highest tier of guitar I experienced prior to getting my Mayones was Ibanez Prestige. I lucked out on getting an amazingly-specced Duvell for just over €3,000, and I cannot imagine spending more on an instrument. That thing is just sublime; I can't conceive of a guitar being better. However, I only bought the Duvell after going a bit nuts after breaking up with my fiancée; there's no way I'd have ever been able to justify that much on a guitar in my right mind.


This is wise. Some people have the money and still buy these guitars. However, one would still expect craftmanship on a high-level. This was not the case here. This was my point from the beginning. Now we are not even discussing the bad quality of the guitar and only talking about the issues which arose from it and the bad interaction with the builder…



xzacx said:


> Sorry, but a guitar that’s had multiple repairs that aren’t disclosed and a trem that still has issues, and is also listed as “mint,” just doesn’t work. You can’t hide behind “but Rusti said it’s fine” when you’re the one selling it and saying otherwise.


I was able to not sell the guitar on that platform in the end, which I was very happy about. I agree with your point, but then my loss would have even be more than only the 1 500 € (plus service / etc.). Actually, all of this never should have happened to begin with. I was forced by Rusti Guitars to sell it off although I wanted HIM to buy it back at 50 % of the money. He did not agree, wanted me to sell it and quoted a price.

Also, there were no "repairs". The guitars was checked, setup at a store, pups changed. How was there any repair apart from a change of pickup selector? The body of the guitar was untouched, same for the neck. Hammering a fret in place is no neck repair or anything.

Again, all of "it is not OK to sell it like this" is just speculation about a scenario which did not happen. A guy came, checked the guitar himself at Rusti Guitars' shop and then decided to buy it for the price. No one ever returned with a guitar he thought was not OK for the price. Getting a Rusti Guitars guitar at 3 500 € with no waiting time, intact warranty, free check at Rusti Guitar factory… I mean… how closer could you get to a new Rusti Guitar? These guitars are just produced like this.


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## Gango79 (Jul 20, 2022)

Mate stop it. You are making a fool of yourself


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> Mate stop it. You are making a fool of yourself


Says the one who tries to save the name of a guitar builder putting out severely bad work at given price tag and then even defending this "quality standard" openly?

First off, you are a "loyal Rusti Guitars customer", I already pointed this out, so clear conflict of interest. In addition, you did not add any value with your statements or disprove the points made in the initial posts.  Who is the fool then? Who has a business here? I am only a customer.


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## xzacx (Jul 20, 2022)

OK, so now you’re saying it was just some minor setup work—do you see why it appears you’re trying to have it both ways? That still doesn’t account for not mentioning the trem not having full functionality and no mention of the plethora of cosmetic flaws you logged. The fact that it was ultimately sold in person is the best case scenario here, so that’s a good outcome, but listing it as you did doesn’t help your credibility.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

xzacx said:


> OK, so now you’re saying it was just some minor setup work—do you see why it appears you’re trying to have it both ways? That still doesn’t account for not mentioning the trem not having full functionality and no mention of the plethora of cosmetic flaws you logged. The fact that it was ultimately sold in person is the best case scenario here, so that’s a good outcome, but the fact you listed it as you did doesn’t help your credibility.


Am I selling here guitars or am I reviewing a guitar?  I am no salesman and did not want to sell this guitar myself. I even told Rusti Guitars about all of these thoughts that I feel shady and bad selling the guitar off to anyone... he told me that the guitar is fine to be sold and no issue, only setup required. In the end I was able to push for the option we went for.

This thread is about a guitar builder who puts out bad work at high price tag with long waiting times and then defends said work after clear images documented most flaws.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I value that you list the stuff here more or less neutrally, however seeing you as a Rusti Guitars customer I (checked your posts) see the conflict of interest here again, same as Gango79. Then suddenly, Gango, you, Alessandro, and Claudio (Rusti Guitars) come in and try to defend something which cannot be defended.
> 
> The guitar was in seriously bad condition when looking at the price tag. Rusti Guitars does until now not acknowledge the faulty trem design. There was no way out, he was telling me to sell it. So I just did. And now the same guy tries to blame me for this? Should I have burnt that thing down to a crisp?  Would that be the solution?
> 
> ...


You're operating in bad faith and I gave you quite a lot of charitability considering you paid a lot for an instrument that arrived with issues.

You've revealed however how abrasive and unreasonable you can be between your images of the conversation and your responses to people with skepticism about your situation asking for more details.

I have never purchased a guitar FROM Rusti, I bought my Paradox second hand from a friend directly. I openly mentioned this in my first response to this thread, so not sure what you found on my profile showing a conflict of interest lol.

As if that has any bearing when I've attempted to be neutral but heavily lean on your rights as a consumer.

Again I ask you for proof of Rusti mocking/shrugging off all responsibility when you made first contact about your issues like you claim. Strangely enough you've revealed A LOT besides this pretty important piece between your rambling.

Cheers! The resale ad speaks volumes as well, you were willing to pass on an instrument you had such negative feelings about undisclosed to another in good conciousness! "Mint" lost all it's meaning here LOL.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> You're operating in bad faith and I gave you quite a lot of charitability considering you paid a lot for an instrument that arrived with issues.
> 
> You've revealed however how abrasive and unreasonable you can be between your images of the conversation and your responses to people with skepticism about your situation asking for more details.
> 
> ...


Again, I do not need to provide further evidence. I provided evidence that there is no issue and the crooked trem / other issues are all OK and no reason for repair. Check my and his posts. He even defends how he build the guitar. I am not here to look good, I don't care, get it? I am upset about how Rusti Guitars deals with customers. Our conversations spanned months and the guitar took another 2 years to finish. All people drool when seeing the high-gloss images of it. And yet, here I am and telling the guitar was crap at given price tag, even provided evidence.

Also, I can report any issues at any time during warranty as long as it is obvious that they arose during manufacturing / was shipped this way. So what is the point? He said there are not issues, he even says so now. In the beginning I still trusted him, but over time when problems started to pile up and became more and more obvious I was fed up and told him that these are actually his faults and nothing you just have to deal with yourself. All of this did not happen overnight, so what about "this is all OK, where is your problem?" Is not ridiculing a customer presenting serious issues?


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## StevenC (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I was able to not sell the guitar on that platform in the end, which I was very happy about. I agree with your point, but then my loss would have even be more than only the 1 500 € (plus service / etc.). Actually, all of this never should have happened to begin with. I was forced by Rusti Guitars to sell it off although I wanted HIM to buy it back at 50 % of the money. He did not agree, wanted me to sell it and quoted a price.


You bought something that you've now revised to say "you just didn't like" (I'll note I'm paraphrasing so you don't send a lawyer after me for a misquote). Rusti has no obligation for you to like the guitar and, in such a scenario, no obligation that you get all your money back when you resell it. This is a hobby, you lose money to hobbies, it's how hobbies work.

This is the EU we're talking about, there are loads of customer protections and you're still whining about losing out. If it was defective, Rusti needs to repair it at no cost to you. This was offered and you turned it down. You could have forced him to accept a return and refund you through the courts if you wanted, and you claim you engaged a lawyer but I really doubt that happened.

All you're doing with this thread is demonstrating you cannot be trusted, so I don't blame Rusti for wanting the guitar himself to check you hadn't done something before shelling out.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

StevenC said:


> You bought something that you've now revised to say "you just didn't like" (I'll note I'm paraphrasing so you don't send a lawyer after me for a misquote). Rusti has no obligation for you to like the guitar and, in such a scenario, no obligation that you get all your money back when you resell it. This is a hobby, you lose money to hobbies, it's how hobbies work.
> 
> This is the EU we're talking about, there are loads of customer protections and you're still whining about losing out. If it was defective, Rusti needs to repair it at no cost to you. This was offered and you turned it down. You could have forced him to accept a return and refund you through the courts if you wanted, and you claim you engaged a lawyer but I really doubt that happened.
> 
> All you're doing with this thread is demonstrating you cannot be trusted, so I don't blame Rusti for wanting the guitar himself to check you hadn't done something before shelling out.


The guitar was flawed, I listed all flaws in the initial 3 posts, your argumentation is absurd. I quoted Rusti when saying "I did not like it", because this is how he termed it. This is also why he would not see any correction of the trem issues etc. as required.

Rusti did not offer to repair it. There was nothing to repair, he even said so in this thread. The crooked trem, the incorrect routing, dead sound… acc. to Rusti Guitars, all of this was just a matter of taste, not of quality issues. Read again, you seem to have serious reading comprehension issues if you continue that way. He wanted to set up the guitar, wanted to charge for the shipment upfront. This is not EU law.

Please get back to topic, the sub-par quality guitar which was send to me.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Again, I do not need to provide further evidence. I provided evidence that there is no issue and the crooked trem / other issues are all OK and no reason for repair. Check my and his posts. He even defends how he build the guitar. I am not here to look good, I don't care, get it? I am upset about how Rusti Guitars deals with customers. Our conversations spanned months and the guitar took another 2 years to finish. All people drool when seeing the high-gloss images of it. And yet, here I am and telling the guitar was crap at given price tag, even provided evidence.
> 
> Also, I can report any issues at any time during warranty as long as it is obvious that they arose during manufacturing / was shipped this way. So what is the point? He said there are not issues, he even says so now. In the beginning I still trusted him, but over time when problems started to pile up and became more and more obvious I was fed up and told him that these are actually his faults and nothing you just have to deal with yourself. All of this did not happen overnight, so what about "this is all OK, where is your problem?" Is not ridiculing a customer presenting serious issues?


Bizarre that you want to withhold the single bit of information that would ultimately make Rusti look 100% in the wrong and overall make people empathize with you more.

So I'll leave it at that, you made a baseless accusation for denial of warranty service and that you were mocked but show zero evidence to reflect it.

You every using Rusti's statement that the guitar is perfect as a greenlight to list it with no disclosure of cosmetic/structural/functional issues would not hold up if the buyer raised issue with your listing to Reverb. The guitar existed how it did in your photos and you listed it as "mint". You definitely don't care how you look because you just look like a scammer at the end of all of this.


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## Gango79 (Jul 20, 2022)

I’m thinking about this detail.
- according to your opinion the guitar was full of flaws. And you disagree with Claudio , that, in other hands, said the guitar was fine.
- you sold the same guitar on reverb saying that it was flawless…and you justify yourself saying “according to Rusti all is fine”
isn't that hypocritical enough? it seems that Claudio is right only when it is useful for you

considering how many posts you have made, how much you continue to defend the indefensible, makes me think how painful was dealing with you. Poor Claudio! You are the customer that no one wants to have.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Bizarre that you want to withhold the single bit of information that would ultimately make Rusti look 100% in the wrong and overall make people empathize with you more.
> 
> So I'll leave it at that, you made a baseless accusation for denial of warranty service and that you were mocked but show zero evidence to reflect it.
> 
> You every using Rusti's statement that the guitar is perfect as a greenlight to list it with no disclosure of cosmetic/structural/functional issues would not hold up if the buyer raised issue with your listing to Reverb. The guitar existed how it did in your photos and you listed it as "mint". You definitely don't care how you look because you just look like a scammer at the end of all of this.


I already provided your proof in the chat logs, of which I posted 2. See yourself. Also, check the dates, this was already in November, issues started back when I received the guitar. I was still compliant, was thinking that I have to just get used to these things as Rusti Guitars termed it. He said (even now) that this is all how it should be. But this is not true. And at some point, i.e. a certain number of different issues having been spotted (all obviously from manufacturing), you start to ask him why this is not addressed. He only replies that "there is nothing to correct".

You see any point onwards from then? Shipping a guitar at my cost to him, although he is not planning to fix the trem routing, the cosmetic issues, and on top: the dead sound issue could not be pinpointed by then. He was just like "aah, this is your taste".

Readers shall make up their mind themselves. Buying a guitar for 5 000 €, waiting 2 years, paying 5 % tip on top, and then being told that all issues you bring up are "your taste" and nothing else. Then you are offered to pay another 300 € to ship the guitar. Rusti tried to damage control, but obiously after all the content I uploaded in the beginning, this is not possible.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

#m


Gango79 said:


> I’m thinking about this detail.
> - according to your opinion the guitar was full of flaws. And you disagree with Claudio , that, in other hands, said the guitar was fine.
> - you sold the same guitar on reverb saying that it was flawless…and you justify yourself saying “according to Rusti all is fine”
> isn't that hypocritical enough? it seems that Claudio is right only when it is useful for you
> ...


Haha, I posted a lot of objective proof in the beginning, i.e. images. This is nothing about this nonsense you are talking about.  Rusti Guitars is just a highly shady guy. Why would I have to resort to legal pressure? When someone is presented with such obvious flaws in a product, you would expect them to directly send a ticket and have this sorted out as soon as possible and not talk about "other guy's builds being more important now" and that this is all just "taste".


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## seekfreed (Jul 20, 2022)

After reading this dumpster fire of a thread I was totally on your side because I was in a similar but way less dramatic situation (not being satisfied with a 4k guitar) but after seeing the way you talk to folks and your dishonesty in the reverb description (especially after the gymnastics you did to justify the description) it showed me that you have a questionable character...

Versuche viel eher deine Erfahrungen als Lektion zu verstehen ohne alle anderen dafür verantwortlich zu machen!


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## StevenC (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> The guitar was flawed, I listed all flaws in the initial 3 posts, your argumentation is absurd. I quoted Rusti when saying "I did not like it", because this is how he termed it. This is also why he would not see any correction of the trem issues etc. as required.
> 
> Rusti did not offer to repair it. There was nothing to repair, he even said so in this thread. The crooked trem, the incorrect routing, dead sound… acc. to Rusti Guitars, all of this was just a matter of taste, not of quality issues. Read again, you seem to have serious reading comprehension issues if you continue that way. He wanted to set up the guitar, wanted to charge for the shipment upfront. This is not EU law.
> 
> Please get back to topic, the sub-par quality guitar which was send to me.


My reading comprehension is fine, it's your story that keeps changing. If I'm confused it's because the web you're weaving is impossible to follow.

You sold the guitar listing no problems. So either you're a liar and there were problems, or you're a liar and this thread is bogus.

That's really all anyone needs to know about this thread. The guitar may or may not be flawed, there's literally no way to know because OP can't be trusted.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

seekfreed said:


> After reading this dumpster fire of a thread I was totally on your side because I was in a similar but way less dramatic situation (not being satisfied with a 4k guitar) but after seeing the way you talk to folks and your dishonesty in the reverb description (especially after the gymnastics you did to justify the description) it showed me that you have a questionable character...
> 
> Versuche viel eher deine Erfahrungen als Lektion zu verstehen ohne alle anderen dafür verantwortlich zu machen!


Reverb was written professionally, acc. to what Rusti Guitars told me, i.e. that the guitar is as intended. The guitar was not much used, great condition, pups changed, that's it. Trying to disprove the review with that small part of the story when Rusti forced me to sell it is funny to say the least.

It is not my fault that Rusti Guitars just puts out bad instruments. The original value is 5 000 €, this is what Rusti Guitars charged me. Therefore, I sold it for much less, although quite new. To me, reasonable enough. I did not mess the guitar up and acc. to the builder the guitar is great. I disagree, but that is another story.

Again "review" vs. "condition after purchase". Also if anyone objected receiving that guitar I would have been cooperative. All of your points here are very much assumption, nothing more.

I am also not here for compassion or anything. I just gave quite the detailed review of Rusti Guitars' work, check the first 3 posts. However, Rusti Guitars could not take that someone spoils his name and a flame war was started. I mean, I don't care, the images are on the net forever. I did my review, the rest is s(w)ole entertainment.


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## Thesius (Jul 20, 2022)

StevenC said:


> My reading comprehension is fine, it's your story that keeps changing. If I'm confused it's because the web you're weaving is impossible to follow.
> 
> You sold the guitar listing no problems. So either you're a liar and there were problems, or you're a liar and this thread is bogus.
> 
> That's really all anyone needs to know about this thread. The guitar may or may not be flawed, there's literally no way to know because OP can't be trusted.


His story hasn't changed he's just thrown on a childish act. He knowingly sold the guitar without listing the flaws, because that's what Rusti did to him. Apparently


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Thesius said:


> His story hasn't changed he's just thrown on a childish act. He knowingly sold the guitar without listing the flaws, because that's what Rusti did to him. Apparently


To correct you: I was able to have the guitar checked by the customer and then sold to that customer. So nothing went wrong. Good outcome from that side. Still feel bad for the guy because he obviously does not seem to care for quality. You are right in that somehow he is now living with that faulty guitar… But would burning it help anyone?

Addition: Guitar was at Rusti's workshop and I guess who could tell more about this guitar than the builder himself when selling it?


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> OP is out his time and 1k+, it's not a hard statement to make that his experience was far from positive and that things could have been handled better. I can also make the statement that OP's rhetoric can make him difficult to deal with, but you could also argue that it never would have escalated to that point with a better initial response.


The above (My own statement, reiterated 3x in this thread) is true, while...




You wrote this up, and listed it as mint while your guitar had:

1) Finishing issues, unpainted edges.
2) Trem Installation off angle
3) Blemishes to your inlay
4) String Locking Mechanism loosely moving

Per your first 3 posts in this thread, the instrument arrived from Rusti this way. You are sleazy for not mentioning a lick of it in your ad yet documenting it so aggressively in your weird spiteful hit piece. This makes me cast doubt on the rest of your account of events, nevermind your claims one of which (Critical to the narrative that Rusti left you hung and dry) is strangely absent.

If your intended purpose was to review the instrument and leave a 1 star review on his business, you should have left it at page 1 - 2. The more that gets revealed the less people will believe your story and instead view you as the problem. Which is antithetical to your reason for making this thread in the first place.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> The above (My own statement, reiterated 3x in this thread) is true, while...
> 
> View attachment 111022
> 
> ...


You do not understand "mint". Mint does mean that it is as after purchase / manufacture. This was the case. Manufacturing issues which were "by design" acc. to Rusti Guitars, do not fall under this. You are therefore incorrect. The issues I listed are acc. to Rusti Guitars all normal and you can therefore expect them on any build from them. Furthermore, this is custom work and no serialized stuff, so it only for that reason alone "design". However, I did not order it that way, did I? 

Also your 2nd assumption is incorrect: People will always check the first posts first, then see the extremely sub-par quality of Rusti Guitars and stop reading. Any bloating of the thread only makes more people aware of it.

Regarding your point: I said in the initial post that I HAD to sell it to someone else at 3 500 €. I was pretty precise here. This is so much straw-man argumenting… please stay on topic. The guitar. First 3 posts.


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## narad (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I am also not here for compassion or anything. I just gave quite the detailed review of Rusti Guitars' work, check the first 3 posts. However, Rusti Guitars could not take that someone spoils his name and a flame war was started. I mean, I don't care, the images are on the net forever. I did my review, the rest is s(w)ole entertainment.



I mean, I don't know why I would have any reservations about buying a Rusti really. They're beautiful, the wood is amazing, and the only real problem here was the trem, which seems to have been a one-off problem on the prototype and seems to have been fixed going forwards. They sound good in the demo vids, and everyone else, who I generally trust as having good test and enough credibility to give an honest opinion, have been impressed with theirs. Honestly if anything this thread has led me to reconsider them going forward, as the wood selection seems to have leveled up once again. Quilt maple fretboard? Yes, please.






Meanwhile you're kind of obviously a PITA customer and generally abrasive personality, with no integrity when it comes to accurately describing the state of a guitar in line with your own assessment in the for-sale ad. The trem sucked but these other issues are just bullshit.

When you look at the details here, they're just really well done, regardless of whatever tiny red circles you want to draw on your own or whatever BS spectrograms you want to post:






All in all, I think you may have helped Rusti's business. I mean, I hadn't thought of Rusti in a long time, but these recent builds are spectacular.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You do not understand "mint". Mint does mean that it is as after purchase / manufacture. This was the case. Manufacturing issues which were "by design" acc. to Rusti Guitars, do not fall under this. You are therefore incorrect. The issues I listed are acc. to Rusti Guitars all normal and you can therefore expect them on any build from them. Furthermore, this is custom work and no serialized stuff, so it only for that reason alone "design". However, I did not order it that way, did I?
> 
> Also your 2nd assumption is incorrect: People will always check the first posts first, then see the extremely sub-par quality of Rusti Guitars and stop reading. Any bloating of the thread only makes more people aware of it.








If I bought your instrument, and took photos of the issues you documented and sent them to Reverb after your BS response. They would side with me or any customer, because those are flaws not present in your description of the instrument.

No amount of mental gymnastics would hold up, and you'd end up refunding whoever you scammed regardless. Hilarious that you "feel sorry" for the final owner, did you not disclose anything to them either and ask them "Hey look over the guitar and let me know if anything is wrong with it?".


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

narad said:


> I mean, I don't know why I would have any reservations about buying a Rusti really. They're beautiful, the wood is amazing, and the only real problem here was the trem, which seems to have been a one-off problem on the prototype and seems to have been fixed going forwards. They sound good in the demo vids, and everyone else, who I generally trust as having good test and enough credibility to give an honest opinion, have been impressed with theirs. Honestly if anything this thread has led me to reconsider them going forward, as the wood selection seems to have leveled up once again. Quilt maple fretboard? Yes, please.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Funny, my bad guitar was advertised with the same images that you bring up here. These are worth nothing in my book and especially after this experience. Rusti is deceiving customers with these photoshopped images, from best angle, masking the issues. How would you expect to see trem issues when only looking at these flashy things? It seems you understood absolutely nothing from this threat… He even had my sub-par guitar as profile pic for quite a long time (I think even has).


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> If I bought your instrument, and took photos of the issues you documented and sent them to Reverb after your BS response. They would side with me or any customer, because those are flaws not present in your description of the instrument.
> 
> No amount of mental gymnastics would hold up, and you'd end up refunding whoever you scammed regardless. Hilarious that you "feel sorry" for the final owner, did you not disclose anything to them either and ask them "Hey look over the guitar and let me know if anything is wrong with it?".


Then I would just refund your money or whatever? What is the deal? I do not see any problem.
It was never sold on reverb, this was just a try. I actually did not expect anyone to buy this. And so it was.


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## High Plains Drifter (Jul 20, 2022)

I'm not going to engage you because there is no reason to.

Now in your mind, you might possibly interpret that as: "You don't have any valid criticisms to make against me". 

And I would say: "No that's not what I said... It's simply that me trying to point out your inconsistencies, contradictions, and embellishments isn't worth my time to get into. People here have already tried".

And you might then say: "See... You have nothing to back up what you're saying because you're not stating examples". 

In which case I would emphasize that you are interpreting things only in a way that suits you and for that, there is no reason for me to regurgitate the examples that have already been stated. 

At this point, you're demonstrating a lack of transparency and instead picking and choosing your words in an effort to paint yourself as the victim. You also seem to possess a consistent yet at times subtle tendency to convey your opinions as facts... as well as twisting things in a way that comes across a bit disingenuous in your arguments. 

Please... If you reply to this and I don't come back to further engage you, don't say "Yep.. That guy didn't know what he was talking about... That's why he didn't come back with another reply". The reason that I'm bowing out of this is because I simply do not care to repeatedly slam my head against a wall for no reason. It doesn't take too long ( certainly not 14 pages) to surmise that you have doubled down and dug in your heels. None of this helps your case. 

Good day.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Something no one seems to notice:

I disclosed what I wrote on Reverb in my first post. I even stated that this text came directly from that listing…

So, no one was arguing against this text back then. Please check again.  I was not shady at any point in my review.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Then I would just refund your money or whatever? What is the deal? I do not see any problem.
> It was never sold on reverb, this was just a try. I actually did not expect anyone to buy this. And so it was.


Listing something with no expectation of making a sale, what insanity.



DirtyPuma said:


> Something no one seems to notice:
> 
> I disclosed what I wrote on Reverb in my first post. I even stated that this text came directly from that listing…
> 
> So, no one was arguing against this text back then. Please check again.  I was not shady at any point in my review.


Of course, the problem arrives when you attempt to pass it off to another person without disclosing said issues transparently. You were 100% shady when listing it on Reverb, you should count your luck that it did not sell to someone who would investigate the instrument decently.


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## narad (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Funny, my bad guitar was advertised with the same images that you bring up here. These are worth nothing in my book and especially after this experience. Rusti is deceiving customers with these photoshopped images, from best angle, masking the issues. How would you expect to see trem issues when only looking at these flashy things? It seems you understood absolutely nothing from this threat… He even had my sub-par guitar as profile pic for quite a long time (I think even has).



You're insinuating that all these beautiful guitars are just riddled with problems, but no one else is complaining. Like you drew a bunch of red circles all over your inlay. You know what? That's a beautiful inlay. You're not convincing anyone otherwise by highlighting miniscule specs in it. It didn't need to be photoshopped to be on his front page. It's simply a good looking guitar with an especially good looking fretboard. You're on Skervesen now? Let me know which Skervesen has a fretboard that nice.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Listing something with no expectation of making a sale, what insanity.
> 
> 
> Of course, the problem arrives when you attempt to pass it off to another person without disclosing said issues transparently. You were 100% shady when listing it on Reverb, you should count your luck that it did not sell to someone who would investigate the instrument decently.


 You do not get it:
Check first post of this thread. I listed my Reverb listing as first part of the story… I was not shady, I sold the guitar, original price 5 000 €, I charge 3 500 €, condition was nearly just as it arrived at my place. So what?


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## Tree (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You do not get it:
> Check first post of this thread. I listed my Reverb listing as first part of the story… I was not shady, I sold the guitar, original price 5 000 €, I charge 3 500 €, condition was nearly just as it arrived at my place. So what?


*YOU* don't get it. No one is saying your review is shady. It's shady not to disclose the issues you have with the instrument in a sale ad. Regardless of whether or not the builder felt they were issues.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

narad said:


> You're insinuating that all these beautiful guitars are just riddled with problems, but no one else is complaining. Like you drew a bunch of red circles all over your inlay. You know what? That's a beautiful inlay. You're not convincing anyone otherwise by highlighting miniscule specs in it. It didn't need to be photoshopped to be on his front page. It's simply a good looking guitar with an especially good looking fretboard. You're on Skervesen now? Let me know which Skervesen has a fretboard that nice.


I had the Skervesen first, so this was the benchmark for the Rusti Guitars. The Rusti Guitars has a serious hole in the fretboard, no small spec. Check once more.

Rusti Guitars only puts out 10 or so guitars per year, so funny that 10 % of them (= 1 guitar) are riddled with MANY flaws on many levels. You now start to bring up the minor cosmetic things again, but the actual issue was the shitty design of trem cavity, guitar weight, fucked-up electronics (several issues here)… Strange, isn't it?

What is the probability of all guitars being great, while one is this bad? I would say not very high.  Disprove the issues I showed in the initial 3 posts.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 20, 2022)

Tree said:


> *YOU* don't get it. No one is saying your review is shady. It's shady not to disclose the issues you have with the instrument in a sale ad. Regardless of whether or not the builder felt they were issues.


^^^ 100 Times this.

Good luck with the crusade but I'm out


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## narad (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I had the Skervesen first, so this was the benchmark for the Rusti Guitars. The Rusti Guitars has a serious hole in the fretboard, no small spec. Check once more.
> 
> Rusti Guitars only puts out 10 or so guitars per year, so funny that 10 % of them (= 1 guitar) are riddled with MANY flaws on many levels. You now start to bring up the minor cosmetic things again, but the actual issue was the shitty design of trem cavity, *guitar weight,* *fucked-up electronics* (several issues here)… Strange, isn't it?
> 
> What is the probability of all guitars being great, while one is this bad? I would say not very high.  Disprove the issues I showed in the initial 3 posts.



You wanted a lightweight walnut guitar and it's Rusti's fault he didn't invent a new species of tree that would allow for it?

And the electronics was a faulty pot. It can happen to anyone. How big of a deal you want to make over a $15 component / 10 min swap?

That leaves the trem issue. Seems to be fixed now and in all new Rustis so why should I care?


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## prlgmnr (Jul 20, 2022)

OP have you ever bought anything from Rondo Music?


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Jul 20, 2022)

Y’all need to give up, Puma just wants to argue. @DirtyPuma if the intention was to alert other perspective buyers about the builder, you’ve failed.


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## Alessandro Zilio (Jul 20, 2022)

What is the point of keeping this conversation up? you brought your review based on your experience, fine!
What's the point now of arguing with everyone about anything just to get someone to agree with you? i already told you that if there's someone that's gonna look bad after this thing is over is only you buddy, and you keep making yourself look worse with your attitude, you just go on and on being aggressive with everyone that gets back at you, bringing out even the most pointless stuff.
Are you done with this?


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## Tree (Jul 20, 2022)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> Y’all need to give up, Puma just wants to argue.


You could even say, he wants to play _Dirty _


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## Gango79 (Jul 20, 2022)

I have had more than 40 guitars in my life. At the moment I own a vik a Rusti , 2 prs( one private stock) , 2 Gibson custom shop . I can say without any doubt Rusti is the best built guitar I ever owned. Yep the wait time is long, but it is the cost to pay to have a perfect guitar . My koa paradox is a work of art. Perfect in every detail as shown in his pics. 
I can accept that in the end one is not satisfied with one guitar but saying such bad things about Claudio is really blasphemy


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## StevenC (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Something no one seems to notice:
> 
> I disclosed what I wrote on Reverb in my first post. I even stated that this text came directly from that listing…
> 
> So, no one was arguing against this text back then. Please check again.  I was not shady at any point in my review.


Ok.


DirtyPuma said:


> Now, here comes the twist: That text actually comes from the description text when I sold that guitar off. After only a couple of months.





DirtyPuma said:


> It was never sold on reverb, this was just a try. I actually did not expect anyone to buy this. And so it was.


The thread that keeps on giving.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> 
> The thread that keeps on giving.


It was not sold via Reverb in the end. But this is not relevant for the review / explanation of the situation. The text was just from a listing of that guitar when I tried so sell that thing off.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> I have had more than 40 guitars in my life. 4 viks, 3


Yeah? Whatever, I had 20 Ibanez Prestige, 5 J Custom, 8 PRS, … notice? I could write any crap here and claim any shit. It is not an argument in any way.


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## StevenC (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> It was not sold via Reverb in the end. But this is not relevant for the review / explanation of the situation. The text was just from a listing of that guitar when I tried so sell that thing off.


You are maybe the least reliable person to ever post here. And I say that while we're in the middle of a huge spambot attack.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

StevenC said:


> You are maybe the least reliable person to ever post here. And I say that while we're in the middle of a huge spambot attack.


Still not getting what this has to do with that crappy shit guitar which I was given by Rusti Guitars. I should have bought fireworks for that money, at least this is fun for a certain time. 

Soon at 100, so finally able to drop out.


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## Tree (Jul 20, 2022)

StevenC said:


> You are maybe the least reliable person to ever post here. And I say that while we're in the middle of a huge spambot attack.


Eh, I think Zach (Zack?) and Mehtab could give him a run for his money.


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## xzacx (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Still not getting what this has to do with that crappy shit guitar which I was given by Rusti Guitars. I should have bought fireworks for that money, at least this is fun for a certain time.
> 
> Soon at 100, so finally able to drop out.


I'm not trying to be rude, but if you really don't get this, here's what it means—people don't trust your opinion on the guitar. Your credibility was also hurt by using Skervesen as a benchmark. You may not know this, but the brand has a less-than-stellar reputation around here. It seems as if things have gotten better, and that's great, but enough people had bad experiences that it comes off as questionable to use as the standard bearer of quality.


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## StevenC (Jul 20, 2022)

xzacx said:


> I'm not trying to be rude, but if you really don't get this, here's what it means—people don't trust your opinion on the guitar. Your credibility was also hurt by using Skervesen as a benchmark. You may not know this, but the brand has a less-than-stellar reputation around here. It seems as if things have gotten better, and that's great, but enough people had bad experiences that it comes off as questionable to use as the standard bearer of quality.


If this is the worst Rusti, it's like a million times better than the worst Skervesen that's been posted here. Or a billion times better than the ones that didn't get posted so the customers would get their money back.


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## narad (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Still not getting what this has to do with that crappy shit guitar which I was given by Rusti Guitars. I should have bought fireworks for that money, at least this is fun for a certain time.
> 
> Soon at 100, so finally able to drop out.


Well let us know your onlyfans page before you go, this was fun.


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## Gango79 (Jul 20, 2022)

I have had more than 40 guitars in my life. At the moment I own a vik a Rusti , 2 prs( one private stock) , 2 Gibson custom shop . I can say without any doubt Rusti is the best built guitar I ever owned. Yep the wait time is long, but it is the cost to pay to have a perfect guitar . My koa paradox is a work of art. Perfect in every detail as shown in his pics. 
I can accept that in the end one is not satisfied with one guitar but saying such bad things about Claudio is really blasphemy


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

StevenC said:


> If this is the worst Rusti, it's like a million times better than the worst Skervesen that's been posted here. Or a billion times better than the ones that didn't get posted so the customers would get their money back.


Since my Skervesen is like a 1 000 times better and fully functional I would recommend them over Rusti Guitars any time. The build time of 2 years, the 5 000 € price tag, and the provided guitar just do not match up.

Furthermore, dealing with Claudio is a real pain, since he's not even able to talk on the phone (lacks English), he outsourced many parts of his work, such as electronics and paint job, and mainly works by CNC, not even handcrafting guitars at that price range. A CNC is high precision and this makes the flaws of my guitar look even worse. Whoever designed that thing must be competely nuts.

I wish I got even 50 % of my money back from Rusti Guitars themselves while returning the guitar (and therefore resources) to them. But I did not. End of story.

Try your best disproving the evidence at the start of the thread! Flaming was fun, but somehow it gets old.

Best is that it seems I am indeed not the only person receiving flawed stuff from Rusti Guitars:


Captain Shoggoth said:


> Came into this thread expecting to have some sympathy for OP as I've had problems with my Rusti-built XEN (bad electronics & fretwork, like I get that it was cheap compared to his usual builds, but those were the worst cut-your-fingers-jagged fret ends I've ever played, and I presume is why he does the hemispherical ends now to compensate)
> 
> But OP you are way too aggro + shady for even me to defend you! I side with Claudio (who at least is an amiable guy) & whichever poor bastard you sold the Lotus to





100


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## AboutBlank (Jul 20, 2022)

Talk about double moral/standards and self-perception…

You could also stop to refer to 5000€ in pretty much every single post instead of the actual value.

However, you seem to be exactly where you wanted to be from the beginning and are clearly enjoying it.


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## nickgray (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> So I have no reason to state the guitar was not good.



Lol, wtf. I can understand random noobs selling their beat up first guitars, they don't know any better.

You did the exact same thing as the builder you're raging against for 16 pages  In fact, it's worse, because you were 100% aware of the issues and deliberately did not tell jack shit about them. Most of your cosmetic issues are nitpicking, but that tiny bump on the fretboard should absolutely have been disclosed, that's no nitpicking. Trem not being recessed should've been disclosed, why do you think the other dude should expect it to be decked if you yourself did not expect it? By far the biggest issue of misaligned (presumably, but extremely likely) trem posts - really fucking important to disclose a defect like this.

Let's talk for real now. Ordering a 5k euro custom is frivoulous as hell. You had the money, you had 2 years to wait for it. It is absolutely, without any shadow of a doubt, a luxury item that no guitarist actually needs. How in the fuck do you have 5000 euros to drop on a custom guitar, but you can't be bothered whatsoever to pay to fix the trem alignment and recess the cavity? You just sell the guitar off like that, with an excuse that since Rusti did a shit job and called it okay it's all good?

How is this different from selling a normal factory guitar with non-obvious issues that you're aware of? Like selling some poor kid a guitar with fret lift? Or with a seized truss rod? Or with a goddamn misaligned trem from the factory that doesn't quite work right, that you know full well doesn't quite work right, but you don't disclose it because hey, it passed the factory QC, it's a-okay by their standards then.

Man, this thread just keeps delivering. I've been on low sleep lately and this really helps pass the time. By gods, I'm hoping I'll be able to catch some normal sleep soon because I can't take it anymore, it's just too ridiculous


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## Randy (Jul 20, 2022)

It's ironic that OP would willfully leave out tons of pertinent information then breakout the electron microscope on the guitar he bought. Doesn't stand up to 1/10 his level of scrutiny.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Jul 20, 2022)

Came into this thread expecting to have some sympathy for OP as I've had problems with my Rusti-built XEN (bad electronics & fretwork, like I get that it was cheap compared to his usual builds, but those were the worst cut-your-fingers-jagged fret ends I've ever played, and I presume is why he does the hemispherical ends now to compensate)

But OP you are way too aggro + shady for even me to defend you! I side with Claudio (who at least is an amiable guy) & whichever poor bastard you sold the Lotus to


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## Giest (Jul 20, 2022)

IMO you should disclose all blemishes and flaws when selling anything. I know it NEVER happens on Reverb which is basically just a platform for broke musicians to soft steal from other broke musicians, but that doesn't make it right. Don't pass the buck, be honest and do a fair deal for a fair price.


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## ikarus (Jul 20, 2022)

At this point you look like a total fool here. The Reverb situation is scammy af.

Also I dont like the generalization you do all the time like "thats just how Rusti guitars are". I have ordered and received two guitars and they where on point. And before you say "you have no idea what qualitiy is", I had/have guitars from Ibanez JC, EBMM, Mayones, Suhr, ESP, PRS,etc etc.

Also Claudio was nothing but stellar to work with, maybe you should have tried it with some politeness in the first place. You seem like a very abrasive person. Like we say in Austria: "Wie man in den Wald hineinruft, so kommt es auch zurück." Kennste oder?

Anyway please refrain from answering to this with your usual wall of text repeating the same things over and over again.

Oh maybe I am not even worth answering because you rule anyone out who has good experiences because of "conflicting interests". lol

Gruß aus Österreich


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## Rusti (Jul 20, 2022)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Came into this thread expecting to have some sympathy for OP as I've had problems with my Rusti-built XEN (bad electronics & fretwork, like I get that it was cheap compared to his usual builds, but those were the worst cut-your-fingers-jagged fret ends I've ever played, and I presume is why he does the hemispherical ends now to compensate)
> 
> But OP you are way too aggro + shady for even me to defend you! I side with Claudio (who at least is an amiable guy) & whichever poor bastard you sold the Lotus to


Hey! I'm sorry man!
That was A LONG ago and my guitars surely got a lot better but i honestly thought i did a good job back then. First time i've used stainless steel frets now that i remember.
Were they sticking out of the fretboard? Did the fretboard shrink?
My bad.


ikarus said:


> Also Claudio was nothing but stellar to work with


<3


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## mbardu (Jul 20, 2022)

Too bad for the Reverb ad, really.
Just like the overall tone (here and with the builder) and the mixing of small cosmetic stuff with actual issues, that is not doing you any favor.

Objectively, for someone interested in a Rusti Lotus, who didn't care about having the trem full floating, and who was not micro-nitpicky about cosmetics (considering the overall looks _are_ very nice), this could actually be a decent deal at 3500$. After all, at that point the guitar had the frets in good shape, the electronics fixed, free pickups, and the routing of the trem reviewed for the string-tension wheel functionality. That's a lot of things that _you _did not get, that soured _your _experience, and that made the guitar faulty and not to specs (not fully floating) upon receipt at the much higher price _you _paid for it. Fix all that, and there's not a lot to complain about (again, as long as you don't mind the trem's limited range).

But just like you felt deceived by Rusti in this debacle, a buyer would easily feel deceived the day he would have found out about the issues and the back and forth.
Even with a buyer who ends up objectively liking the guitar, you'd just be passing along the shadiness that _you _felt to someone else, and that would sour things for them too.

You say that didn't happen because of no sale on Reverb, but just think about it.
Doesn't matter if it went through or not. The few people here who don't immediately side with the builder and who'd be most likely to emphasize with your case would do so because they give _you _the benefit of the doubt of you being the honest one who felt cheated here.... So naturally you're going to lose all that goodwill if you're not 100% upfront yourself.

Even worse, the pictures from the ad do tell me that there were indeed those extra things wrong with the guitar construction in the first place.
The builder already acknowledged they didn't know how the trem worked and had to review the routing_ after the fact_ for the wheel to function.
But it does look like they also had to modify the actual routing in order to give the trem the range that full floating needed.

See OP's guitar, the trem plate easily hits the the visible maple top in the cavity (no extra routing on the treble side that would be showing the walnut body wood and give the trem range):




See a newer guitar here: same trem, this time _with _extra routing to allow actual floating range for the trem. You can clearly see the extra routing through the body top, with the posts sitting in the top wood on a shelf, while the plate has extra routing underneath.




Based on all this, I have no reason to say a "regular" Rusti is necessarily a bad guitar. Even a non-prototype Lotus. A lot of them look great, and if painting lines are not his forte, then tung oil natural finish is a thing.

I would however not try to get something super custom built, new hardware installed or prototype designed with him, considering he's tried to sweep under the rug not one, but at least two/three pretty important things about the bridge. I'd be fine with him saying "oh I didn't realize" or "hey it's a prototype, let me take it back and fix it"...
But saying the prototype buyer is wrong, that he should have known some functions of the bridge wouldn't work, that the guitar is entirely fine and the buyer has the wrong preference etc. All that while silently changing things for future builds....that's not good.


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## jco5055 (Jul 20, 2022)

I think if I can attempt to summarize this thread (lol at the thought) it seems to boil down to this, though I felt like Jonathan did a good job and it seemed like that did nothing to change this thread so maybe I'm dumb to even try:

*1) Did OP get a guitar with objective flaws/issues, that most/all would agree shouldn't be on a 5k guitar?* *YES

2) Might some people see this and go "I am crossing Rusti off my list of builders I'm exploring for a build, because if I'm going to spend that much money I want to go with a builder I feel more sure I won't get a guitar with flaws like eg Padalka" and it is perfectly acceptable to think that, and I think everyone here would agree that wouldn't be unreasonable, and if OP wasn't, well, OP that might just be the thread and that's that*? *YES

3) Should someone be wary of getting a build with Rusti because Rusti seems to be a shady asshole?* *NOT PROVEN BY OP

4) Would OP be able to prove Rusti was 3) above by providing receipts?* *YES

5) By not providing these receipts, does it make it impossible to trust OP that Rusti actually acted that way?* *YES

6) In my opinion, is there a chance that OP is just an asshole that, while getting a guitar that had issues, he seems incapable of being 100% honest, and either imagines everyone is personally out to get him whenever he has a bad experience or receives a bad product, or thinks embellishing the truth is morally ok since at it's most basic core he is right (meaning he did get a flawed instrument)* *ALMOST CERTAINLY*

My "advice" to OP is this: either show the receipts of Rusty being an asshole, or accept that 99% of people are just going to judge Rusti and your guitar on points 1) and 2) I listed above. You aren't going to convince anyone that Rusti is also a bad person if you don't show any receipts, and considering how much of an abrasive personality you have to others in this thread, it wouldn't be unfair for most to assume you are making this part up to idk, prove to yourself you are the better person or show how it's offensive for YOU yes YOU to have gotten a defective guitar specifically, like it's fine if this happened to others but it cant't happen to YOU.

For an analogy, there's plenty of stories of restaurants getting bad reviews, where the reality was yes they screwed up the order, but the customer then claimed in the review or even to the manager at the time that the waiter either was also rude, or on purpose spilled the food on them etc, which ends up backfiring on the customer when they just lie to make the place look even worse after a mistake, and the public opinion is that the customer was "worse" than the person who actually did make a mistake. I see some parallels here.


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## jco5055 (Jul 20, 2022)

mbardu said:


> But just like you felt deceived by Rusti in this debacle, a buyer would easily feel deceived the day he would have found out about the issues and the back and forth.
> Even with a buyer who ends up objectively liking the guitar, you'd just be passing along the shadiness that _you _felt to someone else, and that would sour things for them too.
> 
> You say that didn't happen because of no sale on Reverb, but just think about it.
> Doesn't matter if it went through or not. ly changing things for future builds....that's not good.



"Babe it's fine, I didn't actually go through with it and cheat on you, I was just talking to other girls and open to the idea of cheating on you so I'm not a bad guy. Also I was cheated on in the past so I'm allowed to also".


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## Alberto7 (Jul 20, 2022)

If I had a guy like OP working for me and I caught him behaving like this at work, I'd fire his ass immediately. Regardless of whether he was right or not. Just so willing to argue and be counter productive, even after claiming he'd already laid all the facts down, gee.

Not to mention the Reverb post.


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## Rusti (Jul 20, 2022)

mbardu said:


> But saying the prototype buyer is wrong, that he should have known some functions of the bridge wouldn't work, that the guitar is entirely fine and the buyer has the wrong preference etc. All that while silently changing things for future builds....that's not good.


One last time.
The tremolo, as ordered on the Lotus#1, with Dual Stabilizer is fine in its cavity _(except for the Global Tuner step routing i added later on the back. For more infos check my previous post)_.
I posted the plans and in depth description, that actually show and explain why the infamous front cavity is correct.
In short, a deeper cavity is not needed because the stabilizer pins would stop the bridge into the cavity wall before the base plate could hit the bottom of its routing.
This is why you don't need a deeper routing.

But

What happened? He decided to remove the Dual Stabilizers.
What happens is you decide to do so? This is how it looks (took only one off for this pic):



They leave 2 big holes into the brass block.
We like big solid brass blocks for sustain, we don't like holes in our blocks.
Without the stabilizers the bridge can actually go as low as hitting the routing's bottom.

They can be unmounted for the only reason that they are made out of different components, and they have to be mounted on during assembly.
It is NOT how it is supposed to be used, it is NOT a feature to turn off.

What if you don't like the Dual Stabilizer? You either order the Sophia without this feature or (if it's too late) you can replace the brass block with a new one without those 2 holes.

Now into the updated cavities of the new Lotus'es.
The Lotus from the #2 on, have indeed a deeper cavity.
Do the later Lotus'es with Sophia + Dual Stabilizer have more range? No, BUT in the event you don't like the Dual Stabilizers (like what happened with the Lotus#1's OP) you can now replace the block with a regular one without holes, and happily benefit from the wide rande of a regular tremolo without hitting the routing bottom.

If this wasn't clear enough, the cavity on the #1 is fine until you remove the pins you shouldn't remove, BUT (lesson leared) i added the deeper cavity feature for that event, i would be silly to not do that.

I'll leave the last question to you all: was i supposed to foresee the event where the customer would have disliked and unmounted the Dual Stabilizers (that he wanted as a feature on a bridge that he specifically asked for and i've never used before)? 

Funny fact (i don't mean to make any point here, just statistic), none of the later customers with Dual Stabilizer told me that they disliked or wished it had more range.
Peace


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## mbardu (Jul 20, 2022)

Rusti said:


> One last time.
> The tremolo, as ordered on the Lotus#1, with Dual Stabilizer is fine in its cavity _(except for the Global Tuner step routing i added later on the back. For more infos check my previous post)_.
> I posted the plans and in depth description, that actually show and explain why the infamous front cavity is correct.
> In short, a deeper cavity is not needed because the stabilizer pins would stop the bridge into the cavity wall before the base plate could hit the bottom of its routing.
> ...



Use of the trem without the pins _is _a supported mode. Recommended by the manufacturer in this case as well. You say "it doesn't look nice and the block is less massive so that's not allowed", but the Sophia manufacturer doesn't agree. Use of the wheel in both directions is a key feature of the trem too. So unless you called out _specifically _those limitations at time of order (and I don't know, maybe you did), you don't get to say _after the fact_ that actually upon receipt the buyer is not allowed to use certain modes or functions of the trem. Again, it would be the same as me buying a guitar with a tremol-no guitar, and then the builder telling me I'm in the wrong for using it without it or unlocked sometimes.

Regardless, this is a totally different discussion from the routing under the trem plate.
It's apparent that you made a change to the newer models after the prototype.
So I don't doubt that current buyers of the new model with full routing would be happy.
But regardless of how abrasive the attitude or communication has been with OP, I also don't doubt that the OP would be disappointed if he _didn't _get the full range that new buyers are now getting. And also a tad insulted that you are sweeping it under the rug and gaslighting him with a silent update to new routes while saying his guitar was the same.

Op is shifty with things like the reverb ad, no doubt.
But you're also pretty iffy there. From "nothing was wrong" to "actually I didn't know about the wheel and changed the routing" when presented with evidence.
From "actually the routing was fine" to _only now_ "yeah actually I did have to change the routing" when presented with evidence. Things like posting a diagram as proof, whereas it shows the shape of guitars #2 onwards, and not actually relevant to OP's guitar? Keeping silent that actually the very thing being discussed had to change until you are forced to admit it? Not the pinnacle of honesty and transparency either if you ask me. If I was a paying customer and got this type of backpedaling, goalposts shifting and gaslighting, I wouldn't be happy either.



Rusti said:


> One last time.
> The tremolo, as ordered on the Lotus#1, with Dual Stabilizer is fine in its cavity _(except for the Global Tuner step routing i added later on the back. For more infos check my previous post)_.
> 
> Now into the updated cavities of the new Lotus'es.
> ...



So the tremolo is _fine_.
Except for feature number 1 that is not working.
And Except for feature number 2 that is not working either.

Both of which you found out _because _of OP's guitar and complaints and have now fixed for future users... Presumably you agree that those required fixing if you have changed the design for future buyers, yet OP was left out in the cold by saying he'd have to pay out of pocket for you to even take a look at his guitar after receipt?

What kind of rationalization is that...?


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## arasys (Jul 20, 2022)

after reading DirtyPuma's comments .. I just want to say: nolife.org

after seeing red circles on really nice inlays and even the 0.001 mm gap for what a pickup cover? ughhh ok ALT + F4 bye.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Use of the trem without the pins _is _a supported mode. Recommended by the manufacturer in this case as well. You say "it doesn't look nice and the block is less massive so that's not allowed", but the Sophia manufacturer doesn't agree. Use of the wheel in both directions is a key feature of the trem too. So unless you called out _specifically _those limitations at time of order (and I don't know, maybe you did), you don't get to say _after the fact_ that actually upon receipt the buyer is not allowed to use certain modes or functions of the trem. Again, it would be the same as me buying a guitar with a tremol-no guitar, and then the builder telling me I'm in the wrong for using it without it or unlocked sometimes.
> 
> Regardless, this is a totally different discussion from the routing under the trem plate.
> It's apparent that you made a change to the newer models after the prototype.
> ...















Quite long ago, this was my first post, when issues started… I was still cooperative. Things change over time…
Also, I still believed that "else the guitar is good". So the trem took all my focus for quite some time and I was only looking at the superficial issues. And from far away, the guitar looked good. The minor cosmetic flaws were a bummer somehow but I did not want to point it out back then, since I still thought nothing else was wrong. Oh, how wrong I was in the end. Things got worse and worse and with one issue "brushed aside", the next issue became apparent. 

From the conversation it is pretty obvious that Rusti Guitars did not understand the tremolo features much. "The wheel should be fully closed, the pins cannot be set / changed any way, the bridge was not crooked." I shall just add some tape and good! And back then, I was still compliant.

EDIT: the "tape" I am talking about here was for the 2nd pin. Just a very small soft tape. The 1st pin had the shown tape (check image on page 1) from the start and it was attached by Rusti Guitars to somehow make up for the crooked trem. Since he attached the tape to "make up for the crooked trem" it is obious that Rusti Guitars knew about the bad trem mounting / routing and still decided to ship with the cheap tape added.


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## Rusti (Jul 20, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Use of the trem without the pins _is _a supported mode. Recommended by the manufacturer in this case as well.


Maybe i've missed it, where does the manufacturer raccomend to remove the stabilizers?


mbardu said:


> It's apparent that you made a change to the newer models after the prototype.


Doesn't actually sound like anything weird to make upgrades to a prototype. That's what prototypes are for.


mbardu said:


> So I don't doubt that current buyers of the new model with full routing would be happy.


The new buyers all have stabilizers on have the same range of the #1.


mbardu said:


> silent update to new routes while saying his guitar was the same


Never said it was the same as the other.


mbardu said:


> "nothing was wrong" to "actually I didn't know about the wheel and changed the routing"


"Nothing was wrong" untill he had the guitar and i couldn't check the fact in person. I recognized the missing step-route as soon as i had it here and fixed it.


mbardu said:


> From "actually the routing was fine" to _only now_ "yeah actually I did have to change the routing" when presented with evidence.


The front routing on the #1 is fine and i insist on it. I proved and explained why. This doesn't mean i can't learn from the complain and prevent it on future builds.


mbardu said:


> Things like posting a diagram as proof, whereas it shows the shape of guitars #2


The drawings i posted are from his project. Proof is that there's a slim recessed cover on the back for a total of 46mm body thickness while the later Lotus'es don't have a cover and are 43mm.


mbardu said:


> Keeping silent that actually the very thing being discussed had to change until you are forced to admit it?


I didn't "keep silent" the upgrades, i kept the discussion on topic talking about the #1 and why the cavity is correct. As soon as someone posted a pic of a newer Lotus comparing the cavities i exaplained why it is different.


No offense but you didn't get one single point straight.. Hopefully the first one.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

Rusti said:


> Maybe i've missed it, where does the manufacturer raccomend to remove the stabilizers?
> 
> Doesn't actually sound like anything weird to make upgrades to a prototype. That's what prototypes are for.
> 
> ...


You noticed the "missing step route".

Then tell me: Why did you try to correct that "missing step route" with some tape as seen on the images on page 1 of this thread? This does not add up at all. This was before you even shipped the guitar.

Before I even received the guitar you posted that you did this. Back then I was not fully aware of the situation. But you were well aware that the trem is crooked. You thought that a bit of tape is enough to fix it:



Furthermore: 
There is nothing wrong in doing changes to a prototype.

But there is much wrong in just charging full for a prototype with issues and being well aware.


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## hibernative (Jul 20, 2022)

Rusti said:


> Maybe i've missed it, where does the manufacturer raccomend to remove the stabilizers?
> 
> Doesn't actually sound like anything weird to make upgrades to a prototype. That's what prototypes are for.
> 
> ...


Would you be able to get some opinions on the guitar from the person who bought it? 
Or have they given any feedback?


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## mbardu (Jul 20, 2022)

Rusti said:


> Maybe i've missed it, where does the manufacturer raccomend to remove the stabilizers?


In their reply when OP reached out to them for the weird feel he was experiencing after you replied that it couldn't possibly be the guitar's fault.


Rusti said:


> Doesn't actually sound like anything weird to make upgrades to a prototype. That's what prototypes are for.
> 
> The new buyers all have stabilizers on have the same range of the #1.


You have to pick then. Either it was a finished product, or it was a prototype. If it was truly a prototype, then you should be willing to make the changes for the OP because of that. Acknowledge that maybe you didn't know how the trem works and be willing to take a look right away (especially because you wouldn't lose much on shipping) if you considered this build a prototype and not a fully finished product. Just my two cents.



Rusti said:


> Never said it was the same as the other.


So why do you keep saying "Look! Other Lotus buyers are happy! The OP is complaining for nothing".
What is the point of the comparison and how is that relevant as an argument if we are talking about altogether different guitars?



Rusti said:


> "Nothing was wrong" untill he had the guitar and i couldn't check the fact in person. I recognized the missing step-route as soon as i had it here and fixed it.


This cannot be true, can it? Both routing were wrong when you shipped. The OP did not magically un-route the guitar upon receipt, did he?
The wheel not being functional was not fine. The routing being insufficient was not fine.

What is that about "as soon as I had it here" as well? Did you immediately send him a return shipping to check the issues?
According to OP, you initially said the guitar was 100% fine and you wouldn't take it back. Then when pressed, that maybe you would take it back, but he'd have to pay shipping. Then only after a lot of hassle you agreed to have it shipped back. Are you saying this is not how it happened?
Because if you immediately agreed to get the prototype back because of it being a prototype, I'll take that back.



Rusti said:


> The front routing on the #1 is fine and i insist on it. I proved and explained why. This doesn't mean i can't learn from the complain and prevent it on future builds.


Yes this means there is a contradiction. If future guitars are able to get full range because of the change, and this one isn't- then it isn't fine.
And you deciding how OP is or isn't allowed to use his trem as an argument is not valid. Again- unless you specifically told him he'd have constraints with his use of the trem. In which case I'll take that back too.



Rusti said:


> I didn't "keep silent" the upgrades, i kept the discussion on topic talking about the #1 and why the cavity is correct. As soon as someone posted a pic of a newer Lotus comparing the cavities i exaplained why it is different.


How can this make sense? You explain why it's different by saying that_ it was required to enable full range_ in the non-stabilized mode...but then when OP says he was not getting full range in non-stabilized mode, he's somehow wrong and not using the thing right? And not only is he wrong to want that function, but on top of that the future buyers _do _get that function because of him finding out the issue in design #1? Wat?

Yes you kept it silent and not 100% honest by saying OP's guitar was perfectly fine as is, yet just now saying you had to make upgrades from build #2 onwards to enable full floating that OP did not get.


Edit: I don't get it. From a lot of your builds (which I admire TBH), you seem keen on doing not just a basic guitar, but trying to build something really superior and make people happy. And even if you didn't know this trem well, you have since made improvements to the model design to accommodate it after build #2 onwards. Which is a good thing. What I don't get is the insistence then that "nope, OP's guitar was perfect and he had nothing to complain about, he is using things wrong and his tastes are bad". Aside from saving 200$ of shipping, I don't see the upside- when you yourself acknowledge it _was _a prototype with a number of improvements and fixes to be made.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## tian (Jul 20, 2022)




----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 20, 2022)

nickgray said:


> View attachment 111059


Couldn't you have edited the "Edited by" part as well with some names from the thread? Would have been even more hilarious!


----------



## mbardu (Jul 20, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Couldn't you have edited the "Edited by" part as well with some names from the thread? Would have been even more hilarious!



I want to be in the "Afterword by..."


----------



## tian (Jul 20, 2022)

mbardu said:


> I want to be in the "Afterword by..."


Wait, there's an end to all of this..?


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Jul 20, 2022)

Rusti said:


> Hey! I'm sorry man!
> That was A LONG ago and my guitars surely got a lot better but i honestly thought i did a good job back then. First time i've used stainless steel frets now that i remember.
> Were they sticking out of the fretboard? Did the fretboard shrink?
> My bad.
> ...



For sure, it was ages ago. I don't think it was a fretboard shrinkage thing, the fret protrusion wasn't uniform and the ends were pretty rough. It being your first time with SS frets scans - it was a lesson for me also to commission luthiers to do what they're used to rather than being a guinea pig. At any rate, I can see that you're doing the opposite with fret ends now, so I have no hard feelings!

I will say tho that the electronics + active piezo circuit were a mess to sort through when I switched pickups to active. I hope either you are using a different guy for electronics, or that he is using better parts + technique now.

The XEN is my least comfortable guitar to play but it is super resonant and sounds thunderous down in C#0. The slice of walnut you picked for the top has aged beautifully as well. Cheers


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 20, 2022)

Ah Sophia…. the one that got away…


----------



## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Ah Sophia…. the one that got away…



They'll be others. I heard she doesn't even go all the way.


----------



## Lemonbaby (Jul 21, 2022)

Seeing the additional explanation and pictures from Rusti as well as the OPs messages about removing and fiddling around with the trem multiple times, I'm not surprised it didn't work as expected from some point. Some call it the "repaired to death syndrome".

To be honest though, it seems like an overly complex design trying to fix issues that never existed in the first place. As we all know, adding complexity is almost always the source for more errors instead of a real solution. That's probbaly why the big players still go with the established trem systems to this day.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> For sure, it was ages ago. I don't think it was a fretboard shrinkage thing, the fret protrusion wasn't uniform and the ends were pretty rough. It being your first time with SS frets scans - it was a lesson for me also to commission luthiers to do what they're used to rather than being a guinea pig. At any rate, I can see that you're doing the opposite with fret ends now, so I have no hard feelings!
> 
> I will say tho that the electronics + active piezo circuit were a mess to sort through when I switched pickups to active. I hope either you are using a different guy for electronics, or that he is using better parts + technique now.
> 
> The XEN is my least comfortable guitar to play but it is super resonant and sounds thunderous down in C#0. The slice of walnut you picked for the top has aged beautifully as well. Cheers


Thanks for your honest feedback.

I can assure that frets were not sharp anymore. However, frets were not long enough to make sure that frets do not easily fall off from the fretboard for the e-string. The semi-hemispherical ends made this issue even worse.

Not sure whether Rusti plays guitar at all and notices this issue during soloing, but I would call the fret-end dressing not very functional and rather "flashy" in order to make people think the guitars are better than others. Not true. Furthermore, these semi-hemispherical fret ends are not dressed by hand, but by machine. So much to "I make my guitars by HAND" (do not forget the massive use of CNC: when I told my friend about this, he asked me "then why isn't he calling himself a CNC guy instead of luthier, just like the other guy is the electronics guy, the paint job guy…"). Also to come back to the "does not play guitar", I guess if he seriously did, he would have noticed your issue straight away.

I am impressed you kept your cool! But I guess it was a different story. I also was compliant for a long time. The chat logs you see earlier were when things really fell apart and I had to become serious. Lesson learnt, just do not buy when you are into quality up to the details.

EDIT: If I had your feedback on issues with frets, electronics back then when I looked for a guitar, I think I would not have chosen Rusti Guitars. Issues are still repeating itself, just think of the messed up electronics I had. They were not "not good-looking enough", they were just faulty from the start. Also shady that Rusti Guitars calls himself a 1-man workshop, although so much is outsourced. Rusti Guitars even outsourced my inlay job and now argues "IT WAS MY FIRST TIME WITH SUCH AN INLAY!". You get how that does not add up?


----------



## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

Now your fight is with luthiers that use CNC machines? It never ends.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

narad said:


> Now your fight is with luthiers that use CNC machines? It never ends.


Nope, only the ones who argue "it is handmade, of course there will be issues", while they use high-tech precision equipment to manufacture their guitars and mostly do some sanding and fret polishing by hand.


----------



## ikarus (Jul 21, 2022)

dude please stop, you dig your idiot hole even deeper. No one can take you serious at this point anymore.

You obviously have no clue how CNC is used in modern guitar production and what the important handmade steps are. Otherwise you wouldnt have started with such a ridiculous argument.


----------



## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Nope, only the ones who argue "it is handmade, of course there will be issues", while they use high-tech precision equipment to manufacture their guitars and mostly do some sanding and fret polishing by hand.



You think just because there's a CNC machine, you press a button and a 95% finished guitar pops out?

I don't mind posting because I can just about look at this photo for forever, but a CNC doesn't do these sorts of insane details for you:







There used to be some good threads on the topic here, and I remember especially some famous luthier explaining how little a CNC actually helps, but I forgot who. Someone else is going to have to infer what I'm talking about and post it though. But the short of it is, your argument sucks. Lots of "handmade" guitars use CNC (and even use other tools!), while still calling themselves and being handmade instruments.

For instance, you remember when that guy came out and said that PRS private stock was the real quality? PRS private stock are made using CNC.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

narad said:


> You think just because there's a CNC machine, you press a button and a 95% finished guitar pops out?
> 
> I don't mind posting because I can just about look at this photo for forever, but a CNC doesn't do these sorts of insane details for you:
> 
> ...


Sorry to see that you are still arguing with these shiny pics, which were also used to advertise my (actually crappy) build. 

And I am not saying that CNC does the full job, but it does a lot. Carving body / neck, routing stuff, etc…
The things which are done by hand, such as nut-slot filing, maybe some binding work, are executed not so great on Rusti Guitars in my opinion. Nut slot on my guitar was nothing special and actually the nut slots could have been much more precisely done.


----------



## StevenC (Jul 21, 2022)

ikarus said:


> dude please stop, you dig your idiot hole even deeper. No one can take you serious at this point anymore.
> 
> You obviously have no clue how CNC is used in modern guitar production and what the important handmade steps are. Otherwise you wouldnt have started with such a ridiculous argument.


Since when has knowing what they're talking about been a requirement for DirtyPuma's posts?


----------



## StevenC (Jul 21, 2022)

narad said:


> You think just because there's a CNC machine, you press a button and a 95% finished guitar pops out?
> 
> I don't mind posting because I can just about look at this photo for forever, but a CNC doesn't do these sorts of insane details for you:
> 
> ...


https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...nc-and-timeframes-etc-interesting-read.41039/

Is Ron Thorn a big deal? I wouldn't know because I don't own a PRS PS or Fender Custom Shop guitar.


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## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

Orders guitar. “Man, look at all this issues! This thing is fucked up!”

A little later. “FS, *DEAD MINT*”


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

StevenC said:


> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...nc-and-timeframes-etc-interesting-read.41039/
> 
> Is Ron Thorn a big deal? I wouldn't know because I don't own a PRS PS or Fender Custom Shop guitar.


You are not good at argumentation it seems, because you are always trying to disprove A by B, although B has nothing to do with A.

A guitar build, fully done by hand, takes much more time than a CNC.
The CNC part in your link is a total of 5 hours and something. Imagine how much work that is on a truly hand-build guitar. And there are builders out there who do that. With superb results compared to Rusti Guitars. Although Rusti Guitars uses CNC. CNC = precision. Maybe you got it now.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Orders guitar. “Man, look at all this issues! This thing is fucked up!”
> 
> A little later. “FS, *DEAD MINT*”


Ah come on. It seems you do not get this. Not I sold the guitar. Rusti Guitars sold that piece of crap to someone else. I was handed the money.


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## ikarus (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Sorry to see that you are still arguing with these shiny pics, which were also used to advertise my (actually crappy) build.



Are you actually saying that the details on the picture are not real but photoshopped?! 

My guitar had the same headstock and I can assure you that it looked the same in real life. At this point I am wondering why this thread is still going.


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## ikarus (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> And there are builders out there who do that. With superb results compared to Rusti Guitars.



please enlighten us and tell us which builders you are talking about.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

ikarus said:


> Are you actually saying that the details on the picture are not real but photoshopped?!
> 
> My guitar had the same headstock and I can assure you that it looked the same in real life. At this point I am wondering why this thread is still going.


It is not about the things you can see on the image but the things you cannot see. Rusti's images were not showing any of the (multiple) issues which were clearly present on my build.

Furthermore: What has your guitar to do with my build which this thread is about? And you call me idiot and silly…


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## StevenC (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You are not good at argumentation it seems, because you are always trying to disprove A by B, although B has nothing to do with A.
> 
> A guitar build, fully done by hand, takes much more time than a CNC.
> The CNC part in your link is a total of 5 hours and something. Imagine how much work that is on a truly hand-build guitar. And there are builders out there who do that. With superb results compared to Rusti Guitars. Although Rusti Guitars uses CNC. CNC = precision. Maybe you got it now.


Uh, was I talking to you?


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## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

ikarus said:


> At this point I am wondering why this thread is still going.



I'm wondering why it started in the first place. Dude doesn't even own it anymore.

BRB, starting a complaint thread about a truck I don't own anymore.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> I'm wondering why it started in the first place. Dude doesn't even own it anymore.
> 
> BRB, starting a complaint thread about a truck I don't own anymore.


The thread is a review. Read post no. 1.


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## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> I'm wondering why it started in the first place. Dude doesn't even own it anymore.
> 
> BRB, starting a complaint thread about a truck I don't own anymore.



Sucks that he wants this to be like a warning to other Rusti buyers about his trem issues, but his was the prototype and he got it more than a year ago, and none of the ones after the have had any issues. It would be like me starting a thread,

_"7/20/2022: New Plane Day: Wright Brothers Prototype, 

Back in 1903 I took delivery of this plane. it was awful! Only stayed in the air for 20 seconds!! No one should be in planes, they are junk!!"

"Also I asked for my plane to be made of walnut"_


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## Gango79 (Jul 21, 2022)

This is my pic of the headstock…do you think it is crappy?


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## Gango79 (Jul 21, 2022)

Oh my bad…only thanks to the camera


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> This is my pic of the headstock…do you think it is crappy?






Indeed it is crappy. See, the E to A string is a different spacing than the A to D string. That is amateur level. I added some equally-sized and parallel lines (differently colored as well) to spot this a bit easier.

There is no rule to the spacing. At first I thought this is becoming larger spacing towards the high e, but it is not true. The string spacing between A to D is actually smaller (or same) than D to G.

The gauges are not what causes the difference here. The lines are a bit thick, otherwise you could not see it, but I set them to the center of the strings. Check it yourself.

That is attention to detail.


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## ikarus (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Furthermore: What has your guitar to do with my build which this thread is about? And you call me idiot and silly…



Since you like to generalize in this thread all the time about the qualitiy and customer service, me and others show you that this not the case and can not be generalized. The second part you did build up yourself on the last 18 pages.


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## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

Damn, dude never learned about angles.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

narad said:


> Damn, dude never learned about angles.


Then please, he shall send another image to disprove it. As I mentioned, there was "no rule". Caused by an angle, this would not have been the case.

Furthermore: the nut slot looks a bit too large from top to bottom. Why? Do not see a reason for this. Same could be said for pickup cavities, I guess. But this is indeed hard to see due to the angles. Headstock looks a bit too thick, just like the body of the Lotus shape.  Maybe builder preference. But not player-oriented.


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## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> Oh my bad…only thanks to the camera



Unfortunately it seems to have many CNC markings and cracks in the wood, typical of Rusti guitars.


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## Alessandro Zilio (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Then please, he shall send another image to disprove it. As I mentioned, there was "no rule". Caused by an angle, this would not have been the case.


ahahah dude please stop it, you had multiple chances but you keep fighting with everyone making yourself look worse and worse. And as people told you, you got the guitar more than a year ago, 6 months after you parted ways with it and 6 more months after the whole situation was solved you're here arguing about anything you can. I guess you rightfully got your chance to tell the story, then what, what is this all about?


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## Gango79 (Jul 21, 2022)

Another pics…my friend! Tell me about the art of luthiery


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## Gango79 (Jul 21, 2022)

You are right…they are crappy


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> View attachment 111092
> 
> 
> Indeed it is crappy. See, the E to A string is a different spacing than the A to D string. That is amateur level. I added some equally-sized and parallel lines (differently colored as well) to spot this a bit easier.
> ...


This is so ridiculous… just wanted to stress more and show people what bad of a job that is!

Just helping out Rusti Guitars, being his "gang", does not help at all. Alessandro even shoots videos for Rusti Guitars. I mean how worse could "conflict of interest" be?

Also, posting random images of guitars helps nothing here. When checking a guitar close-up I am sure we are going to find even more issues. I was even surprised to see that fucked up nut-job in the image that guy posted here in order to disprove the statement "Rusti Guitars puts out bad quality". You are all hyped by these flashy tops, and rounded fret-ends. But from player perspective, I don't see any positive about Rusti Guitars after my experience and build I received.

Go look somewhere else if you're interested in quality!


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## Gango79 (Jul 21, 2022)

Please I would be the first in line to order a Puma guitar…I bet they will be perfect! 

Mate please stop!!


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## Xaeldaren (Jul 21, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> Another pics…my friend! Tell me about the art of luthiery



If you rotate the headstock 34.2 degrees and zoom in on the tuner, you can clearly see in the reflection that JFK was abducted by aliens.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

Rusti Guitars are not what he makes them up to be, face it. That's all I am here for.


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## Slaeyer (Jul 21, 2022)

This thread is pure gold


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## StevenC (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Rusti Guitars are not what he makes them up to be, face it. That's all I am here for.


Says the guy who doesn't disclose flaws in Reverb listings?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Says the guy who doesn't disclose flaws in Reverb listings?


The listing was taken off of Reverb long ago. Guitar was sold by Rusti, guess he told the customer that "all is good", since he told me the same back then. This is no argumentation, you just try to discredit my evidence (although images) by discrediting me. That is not how things work. Maybe I am the biggest asshole in the world (acc. to what you see here in this thread, you don't know me at all actually), BUT I provided clear evidence that Rusti Guitars does not have his builds unter control. 

And somehow it pisses people off because they were so proud of their Rusti Guitar and are now shown here that Rusti Guitars is not so great after all.


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> View attachment 111092
> 
> 
> Indeed it is crappy. See, the E to A string is a different spacing than the A to D string. That is amateur level. I added some equally-sized and parallel lines (differently colored as well) to spot this a bit easier.
> ...



Holy shit man that would PISS ME OFF. I'm with you, there's no way that's playable. I would not be able to play it.

Also, did you notice the "1" is right under the D string, but the "2" is right in between? Unplayable.


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## Alberto7 (Jul 21, 2022)

StevenC said:


> https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...nc-and-timeframes-etc-interesting-read.41039/
> 
> Is Ron Thorn a big deal? I wouldn't know because I don't own a PRS PS or Fender Custom Shop guitar.


I came here to post just that. That thread was pretty eye opening back then.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 21, 2022)

I don't really feel like reading back through the thread, I saw the pics for like 3 seconds on a super bright day the other day and I couldn't tell what the deal with the term was? Someone feel like explaining to a lazy millennial?


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## prlgmnr (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Rusti Guitars are not what he makes them up to be, face it. That's all I am here for.


You keep going on about evidence this and logic that, all you've shown is that _one_ Rusti guitar wasn't to its purchaser's satisfaction. We can't know if Rusti would have corrected this because you made sure he didn't get the opportunity to do so.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

prlgmnr said:


> You keep going on about evidence this and logic that, all you've shown is that _one_ Rusti guitar wasn't to its purchaser's satisfaction. We can't know if Rusti would have corrected this because you made sure he didn't get the opportunity to do so.


 What about the incorrectly done nut for that other guitar which I pointed out?

What about the fucked up frets and electronics from the XEN build?

I can only say that it is not very probable that a builder fucks up so much once and everything else is stellar work. Images might look good, but else?


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## prlgmnr (Jul 21, 2022)

One of those things is a non existent problem that you've made up, and the other is something someone else has told us about, not you.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

prlgmnr said:


> One of those things is a non existent problem that you've made up, and the other is something someone else has told us about, not you.





If that inaccuracy is not a problem then I do not know what is.  You can only imagine how "precise" he works.

Edit: Maybe it was just the "bad" CNC's fault as he mentioned before or even the first time he filed a nut like this. Seem to be his standard excuses.


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## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> View attachment 111101
> 
> If that inaccuracy is not a problem then I do not know what is.  You can only imagine how "precise" he works.
> 
> Edit: Maybe it was just the "bad" CNC's fault as he mentioned before or even the first time he filed a nut like this. Seem to be his standard excuses.



I'm American so I don't know how to read this. Can you do it again in imperial units?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

narad said:


> I'm American so I don't know how to read this. Can you do it again in imperial units?


Tell this the SI system and your journals.


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## StevenC (Jul 21, 2022)

It's really funny how crooked those rulers are


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Rusti Guitars are not what he makes them up to be, face it. That's all I am here for.


i hadn't heard of this maker before. now i have. there are no 2nd first impressions.


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## Tree (Jul 21, 2022)

I just now, after nearly 20 pages, noticed that the thread is tagged “fraud”. I don’t know why, but that really tickled me


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## tian (Jul 21, 2022)

StevenC said:


> It's really funny how crooked those rulers are


Must have been placed with CNC... wait what?


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Tell this the SI system and your journals.


----------



## StevenC (Jul 21, 2022)

tian said:


> Must have been placed with CNC... wait what?


Beautiful avatar


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 21, 2022)

StevenC said:


> It's really funny how crooked those rulers are


everyone hates corrupt leaders. wait what?


----------



## tian (Jul 21, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Beautiful avatar


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

tian said:


> View attachment 111105



:fistbump:


----------



## Alberto7 (Jul 21, 2022)

Bruh, Puma, go take a nap or something. Jesus. Cool off. Take a chill pill. Shit's done. You lost your money a year ago. Ain't nobody fixing this for you. Your "review" isn't doing what you wanted it to do. Nobody is taking it seriously anymore. Cut your losses and continue on with your life. Your points are all moo now. Like a cow's opinion, nobody cares.


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Dear forum members,
> 
> so far I used this forum only to inform myself about experiences on guitars / companies / builders. Today I decided to post this and it was not an easy decision for me. However, I wanted to provide some information to other members here myself instead of only "taking".
> 
> ...


it is very disappointing to have expectations not met when you paid A LOT and waited. unfortunately, this is not infrequent


----------



## Tree (Jul 21, 2022)

Alberto7 said:


> Bruh, Puma, go take a nap or something. Jesus. Cool off. Take a chill pill. Shit's done. You lost your money a year ago. Ain't nobody fixing this for you. Your "review" isn't doing what you wanted it to do. Nobody is taking it seriously anymore. Cut your losses and continue on with your life. Your points are all moo now. Like a cow's opinion, nobody cares.


Wait. Isn’t the phrase, “your point is *moot*”? 

I do like the implications of cows being involved though


----------



## Alberto7 (Jul 21, 2022)

Tree said:


> Wait. Isn’t the phrase, “your point is *moot*”?
> 
> I do like the implications of cows being involved though


A lot of people here hate that show, but it's from Friends. I always thought that line was the most hilarious thing ever.


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 21, 2022)

Tree said:


> Wait. Isn’t the phrase, “your point is *moot*”?
> 
> I do like the implications of cows being involved though


in some places, the t is silent?


----------



## Tree (Jul 21, 2022)

Alberto7 said:


> A lot of people here hate that show, but it's from Friends. I always thought that line was the most hilarious thing ever.


Ohhhhhhhh, okay that makes sense. 
Do we have an equivalent emote for “woosh”/flew over my head?


----------



## nickgray (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Indeed it is crappy. See, the E to A string is a different spacing than the A to D string. That is amateur level.



Guitar nuts are generally not spaced evenly (same distance between centerpoints of consecutive strings). The spacing is slightly offset to compensate for the differences in string thickness.






String Spacing Rule - StewMac


Accurate string spacing without calipers, calculators or shop rulers.




www.stewmac.com


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

I mean I would have just kept the damn thing and played it.


----------



## StevenC (Jul 21, 2022)

Alberto7 said:


> Bruh, Puma, go take a nap or something. Jesus. Cool off. Take a chill pill. Shit's done. You lost your money a year ago. Ain't nobody fixing this for you. Your "review" isn't doing what you wanted it to do. Nobody is taking it seriously anymore. Cut your losses and continue on with your life. Your points are all moo now. Like a cow's opinion, nobody cares.


Puma needs to get acrimonious


----------



## MFB (Jul 21, 2022)

Tree said:


> Wait. Isn’t the phrase, “your point is *moot*”?
> 
> I do like the implications of cows being involved though



It is, and it just goes to show that some people take phonetics for granite


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Guitar nuts are generally not spaced evenly (same distance between centerpoints of consecutive strings). The spacing is slightly offset to compensate for the differences in string thickness.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I already pointed out that there is no rule for the Rusti. He did not go by that school of increasing string spacing with gauge. It is random. You are trying to justify bad accuracy with some rule which was not applied here...


----------



## mbardu (Jul 21, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I don't really feel like reading back through the thread, I saw the pics for like 3 seconds on a super bright day the other day and I couldn't tell what the deal with the term was? Someone feel like explaining to a lazy millennial?



The routings don't allow for full function of the trem. Baseplate is hitting the top wood when pulling, adjustment wheel is non functional.
The builder didn't really know how the trem worked and pretended that everything was OK and dragged their feet to take the guitar back and even verify it.
Then when he did get the guitar, actually made design changes to all future models based on OP's findings, but keeps saying there was nothing wrong with that guitar that OP got.

Now because of his issues with his prototype build, OP is clearly very annoyed at Rusti, and is on a tangent that CNC guitars are bad or that all other Rusti guitars are bad instruments, which is clearly unrelated and senseless. I wouldn't go to him for a prototype based on the events here, but no reason to believe that Rusti is any worse than other fancy boutique builders, and in fact some of his builds just look sensational.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

mbardu said:


> The routings don't allow for full function of the trem. Baseplate is hitting the top wood when pulling, adjustment wheel is non functional.
> The builder didn't really know how the trem worked and pretended that everything was OK and dragged their feet to take the guitar back and even verify it.
> Then when he did get the guitar, actually made design changes to all future models based on OP's findings, but keeps saying there was nothing wrong with that guitar that OP got.
> 
> Now because of his issues with his prototype build, OP is clearly very annoyed at Rusti, and is on a tangent that CNC guitars are bad or that all other Rusti guitars are bad instruments, which is clearly unrelated and senseless. I wouldn't go to him for a prototype based on the events here, but no reason to believe that Rusti is any worse than other fancy boutique builders, and in fact some of his builds just look sensational.


Nearly on point, but:

CNC is extremely precise and saves lots of time. However, Rusti used his CNC as an excuse before which is why I brought up that he uses CNC quite extensively, so his builds should actually be very precise. As the guitar nut shows, he is not even able to file exact nut slots by hand.


----------



## mbardu (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Nearly on point, but:
> 
> CNC is extremely precise and saves lots of time. However, Rusti used his CNC as an excuse before which is why I brought up that he uses CNC quite extensively, so his builds should actually be very precise. As the guitar nut shows, he is not even able to file exact nut slots by hand.



You're not doing yourself any favor here.
Attacking other people's guitars (that look fine) because of your experience is not gonna get anybody to your cause.
You're like a reverse @narad here  . Where he wants owners to be happy with guitars they are unhappy with, you want owners to be unhappy with guitars they are happy with. 

Whether you like it or not, and not discounting your negative experience, I'm sure there are also a lot of people happy with their own Rusti.
Take people who got natural finished guitars of a simpler model without new hardware....no reason to believe they'd have any of the concerns that you have faced.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Nearly on point, but:
> 
> CNC is extremely precise and saves lots of time. However, Rusti used his CNC as an excuse before which is why I brought up that he uses CNC quite extensively, so his builds should actually be very precise. As the guitar nut shows, he is not even able to file exact nut slots by hand.



This is like, peak contrarianism. 

So he either relies too much on CNC as an excuse, or if he does work by hand (like you claim the nut to be) and he can't do it properly.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh, we get it dude you hate the guy and he hurt you deeply.


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## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

Definitely time for a new hobby, like Jeep rock crawling or cigar boat racing.


----------



## Tree (Jul 21, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Definitely time for a new hobby, like Jeep rock crawling or cigar boat racing.


Or maybe cigar boat crawling and Jeep rock racing?


----------



## mbardu (Jul 21, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> This is like, peak contrarianism.
> 
> Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh, we get it dude you hate the guy and he hurt you deeply.


I know right?
Someone who's been wronged by a builder on their complex custom build, and as a result makes it their mission to crusade against the builder as a whole despite a lot of other owners being pretty happy? We've _never _seen that on SSO before  .


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## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

Tree said:


> Or maybe cigar boat crawling and Jeep rock racing?



:fistbump:


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jul 21, 2022)

mbardu said:


> I know right?
> Someone who's been wronged by a builder on their complex custom build, and as a result makes it their mission to crusade against the builder as a whole despite a lot of other owners being pretty happy? We've _never _seen that on SSO before  .



Oh *God*, you really want to misconstrue it that badly?

You do realize I gave Puma the entire right of way, since his complaints were entirely valid right from the very start? *Regardless *of my own example of good work from the same builder sitting on the rack right next to me.


----------



## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

Tree said:


> Or maybe cigar boat crawling and Jeep rock racing?



Or anger management?


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## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

Maybe @DirtyPuma doesn’t _deserve _a Rusti.


----------



## Tree (Jul 21, 2022)

narad said:


> Or anger management?


Too poignant. 
Angry Jeep cigar management or GTFO.


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## nickgray (Jul 21, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Maybe @DirtyPuma doesn’t _deserve _a Rusti.



Only a Gibson is good enough.


----------



## Pandaonslaught (Jul 21, 2022)

I have NO idea where you might be going with this. i LOVED my twin kiesel build


Jonathan20022 said:


> Oh *God*, you really want to misconstrue it that badly?
> 
> You do realize I gave Puma the entire right of way, since his complaints were entirely valid right from the very start? *Regardless *of my own example of good work from the same builder sitting on the rack right next to me.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> This is like, peak contrarianism.
> 
> So he either relies too much on CNC as an excuse, or if he does work by hand (like you claim the nut to be) and he can't do it properly.
> 
> Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh, we get it dude you hate the guy and he hurt you deeply.


Not the case.

He is using CNC => he should actually put out precise work quite quickly.

However the truth is: He is using CNC and STILL takes ages to get something done, furthermore the precision issues are quite evident.


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## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Maybe @DirtyPuma doesn’t _deserve _a Rusti.



He's got a skervesen now, so I kinda feel like he got exactly what he deserves.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

narad said:


> He's got a skervesen now, so I kinda feel like he got exactly what he deserves.


Had the Skervesen first and was expecting to get a minimum same quality tier guitar from Rusti actually. Then it turned out to be exactly the other way round. Still have the Skervesen, nothing to complain about it.  At least Skervesen gets the string spacing right acc. to the school of "string space should increase with gauge". However, they have their special name for that and do the same for the bridge pieces.

Back to the Rusti case!


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## Pandaonslaught (Jul 21, 2022)

narad said:


> I'm American so I don't know how to read this. Can you do it again in imperial units?


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 21, 2022)

anyone think the makers phone is ringing about now? this thread is on fire


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## Pandaonslaught (Jul 21, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> Oh my bad…only thanks to the camera


this nice


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## mbardu (Jul 21, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Oh *God*, you really want to misconstrue it that badly?
> 
> You do realize I gave Puma the entire right of way, since his complaints were entirely valid right from the very start? *Regardless *of my own example of good work from the same builder sitting on the rack right next to me.



I was just making a funny sir, I promise 
Sounds like some sort of nerve was struck though


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## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

Why is this a NGD thread? Shouldn’t it be a Sold Guitar Review? Or does NGD stand for Nearly Got Duped?


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 21, 2022)

mbardu said:


> I was just making a funny sir, I promise
> Sounds like some sort of nerve was struck though



A bit, but I forgive you  don't make me bring out the links 

Also whats with the Skervesen slander, that is *equally *as unfair as the Rusti slander happening rn.


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## nickgray (Jul 21, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Shouldn’t it be a Sold Guitar Review?



Solid? It's pretty liquidy if you ask me. I think we need to consult the Bristol Guitar Review Chart just to be sure.


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## lurè (Jul 21, 2022)

Thanks guys, you always provide the most gourmet content concerning the custumer vs luthier saga


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

Also thanks from my side.  Some people are hurt quite easily, but some are still up for some fun. So let's get ready for the next chapter.


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## nickgray (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> So let's get ready for the next chapter.



And I thought Wheel of Time was maybe a tad longer than needed.


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## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

nickgray said:


> And I thought Wheel of Time was maybe a tad longer than needed.



:fistbump:


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

nickgray said:


> And I thought Wheel of Time was maybe a tad longer than needed.


Nope, but I ordered another build from him via a friend. Will be funny to see how it looks this time! Acc. to messages it is soon getting finished.


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## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Nope, but I ordered another build from him via a friend. Will be funny to see how it looks this time! Acc. to messages it is soon getting finished.


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## nickgray (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Nope, but I ordered another build from him


----------



## JSanta (Jul 21, 2022)

This thread has been a ride, but the It's a Small World at Disney World. Fuckin eh


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## MFB (Jul 21, 2022)

Thoughts and prayers to Rusti Guitars family, friends, and acquaintances for his willingness to take a second build with this gweegwoh


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## Pandaonslaught (Jul 21, 2022)

probably down to do a rusti build ngl


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## xzacx (Jul 21, 2022)

This has to be a troll right? There's no way this thread just took the turn that it appears to have taken.


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## Rusti (Jul 21, 2022)

That's right. The new prototype is ready to ship out.
It's called Puma.


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## MFB (Jul 21, 2022)

xzacx said:


> This has to be a troll right? There's no way this thread just took the turn that it appears to have taken.



What if Puma IS Rusti?!

The build is coming from inside the house!


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## bostjan (Jul 21, 2022)

Rusti said:


> That's right. The new prototype is ready to ship out.
> It's called Puma.
> View attachment 111111


Is that a pine body?! Is that the actual body? My interest is piqued. I know this would normally be a thread derail, but this thread went off the rails not long after it started. Anyway, I'd like to know more about what I see in this photo.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 21, 2022)

This is gonna be wild, it'd be 6D Chess to figure out the imposter and send them a botched build.

Next level spite


----------



## xzacx (Jul 21, 2022)

MFB said:


> What if Puma IS Rusti?!
> 
> The build is coming from inside the house!


I feel like this thread has done more to introduce people to Rusti guitars than persuade them from buying, so that would actually be pretty genius.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

Rusti said:


> That's right. The new prototype is ready to ship out.
> It's called Puma.
> View attachment 111111






Yeah man! Love how crooked the string goes from single-string headpiece to nut! Also, looks as if you added the infamous Rusti-Guitars string-spacing system once more. I am looking forward to the BUILD!!!


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

xzacx said:


> I feel like this thread has done more to introduce people to Rusti guitars than persuade them from buying, so that would actually be pretty genius.


Actually, already 20 different people reached out to me and wanted additional details. Guess they are not going to become any customers soon now…


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## jephjacques (Jul 21, 2022)

puma you gotta log off man, you're getting destroyed


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## jephjacques (Jul 21, 2022)

just utterly obliterated in your own thread, that you started

log off man

stay down


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> puma you gotta log off man, you're getting destroyed


Mate, I provided so much details about the sub-par quality of Rusti Guitars and other shady stuff related to that builder, how could this not be more than one could have ever wanted?


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## jephjacques (Jul 21, 2022)

no I get it, you're trying to roll with the punches

but it's too late for that

please log off


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## NickS (Jul 21, 2022)

Hi Yellow, nice to see you again.....


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## Matt08642 (Jul 21, 2022)

Anyone know the best attorney to sue Ibanez for this?


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## NickS (Jul 21, 2022)

Rudy Giuliani.


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## MFB (Jul 21, 2022)

NickS said:


> Rudy Giuliani.



moar like RUSTI Giuliani amirite?!


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

MFB said:


> moar like RUSTI Giuliani amirite?!


Man, that guy cannot even calculate his invoices correctly!


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## jco5055 (Jul 21, 2022)

Honestly I almost feel like we should go the Kiesel route and separate this thread, one can be complaints that Rusti isn't allowed in and the other can be pro-Rusty that Puma isn't allowed in. 

And Puma, if you legitimately ordered a new Rusti through a friend...just why? Are you hoping that Rusti has improved, or are you just hoping to be proven correct that his builds still have issues, and you apparently have the $$$ to burn to be able to do that?


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## Lemonbaby (Jul 21, 2022)

Rusti said:


> That's right. The new prototype is ready to ship out.
> It's called Puma.
> View attachment 111111



*wipes coffee from computer screen*


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## jaxadam (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Yeah man! Love how crooked the string goes from single-string headpiece to nut! Also, looks as if you added the infamous Rusti-Guitars string-spacing system once more. I am looking forward to the BUILD!!!



I wouldn't trust anyone to build a guitar that's using a phone that old. It probably doesn't even have Snake on it!


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## tian (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Nope, but I ordered another build from him via a friend. Will be funny to see how it looks this time! Acc. to messages it is soon getting finished.


This is either a low-effort troll or you're about to get banned from every custom builder that hasn't already done so.


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## Gango79 (Jul 21, 2022)

This is not a thread. This is a movie…


----------



## ArtDecade (Jul 21, 2022)

I tried to get my wife to do a dirty puma one time, but she had a hard time holding the camera and the spatula while we were on horseback.


----------



## jco5055 (Jul 21, 2022)

Surely this is going to be the thread of the year right? I would have never guessed in a million years Rusti would be the brand to do it.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 21, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> This is not a thread. This is a movie…


----------



## Giest (Jul 21, 2022)

I used to want this thread to wane, but at this point I'm somewhat fascinated. Usually lunatics end up just cancelling each other out, the crazy quickly reaches a critical mass, but this is novel.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 21, 2022)

Giest said:


> I used to want this thread to wane, but at this point I'm somewhat fascinated. Usually lunatics end up just cancelling each other out, the crazy quickly reaches a critical mass, but this is novel.



Maybe @DirtyPuma wasn't satisfied with the tone of his 5k euro custom because it didn't have enough truss rod covers.


----------



## Mboogie7 (Jul 21, 2022)

plot twist - all OP is achieving is fantastic PR for Rusti guitars.

I sincerely doubt that was the intent, but I’ve gotta believe that is the outcome.


----------



## tian (Jul 21, 2022)

Using a sock puppet account to talk to yourself wouldn't exactly be new here but I'd assume they'd take a better approach then, "yeah I sold someone a €4800 prototype, whoopsies about the problems" but who knows at this point. They say no press is bad press but this would certainly be a contender to challenge that...


----------



## Thesius (Jul 21, 2022)

Mboogie7 said:


> plot twist - all OP is achieving is fantastic PR for Rusti guitars.
> 
> I sincerely doubt that was the intent, but I’ve gotta believe that is the outcome.


Yeah I kinda want a Rusti now


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> What about the incorrectly done nut for that other guitar which I pointed out?
> 
> What about the fucked up frets and electronics from the XEN build?
> 
> I can only say that it is not very probable that a builder fucks up so much once and everything else is stellar work. Images might look good, but else?



Re my XEN; I made it expressly clear that I do not agree with your conduct nor appraisal of Claudio, and i am unsympathetic to you in general.

The issue with my frets is absent on every guitar he's made since - bear in mind mine was built 2013/14 also - your disliking his current style of fret ends has no bearing on that as you're talking about an entirely different (+subjective) issue.

Given how prototypical my instrument also was, for all we know those electronic issues haven't occurred on any instruments he's made since.

The ONLY cogent point that can be drawn regarding both of our experiences is that it is unwise to order any kind of prototype spec from a luthier, which is certainly NOT limited just to Rusti Guitars


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## tian (Jul 21, 2022)

At any rate, once this thread finally peters off into oblivion, pulling a DirtyPuma™ will certainly remain in the SSO vernacular for some time. 

Although I could also see this being the Covid of forum threads so buckle up for the long haul.


----------



## mbardu (Jul 21, 2022)

tian said:


> At any rate, once this thread finally peters off into oblivion, pulling a DirtyPuma™ will certainly remain in the SSO vernacular for some time.
> 
> Although I could also see this being the Covid of forum threads so buckle up for the long haul.



I think you're confused.
*This *is the Covid of forum threads: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/covid-19-coronavirus.340629/


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## mbardu (Jul 21, 2022)

Thesius said:


> Yeah I kinda want a Rusti now



I wouldn't even mind _OP_'s guitar now TBH.
Don't need crazy range so I'd live with the small top route.
Rusti did add a route for the wheel as well so the tuning adjustment supposedly works too.
The electronics that were DOA are fixed so that the guitar can actually produce real sound now too.
The paint misses are not a dealbreaker if the overall finish looks nice, and the inlay looks VERY nice despite the small issues as well.

I would not stomach a couple of years wait, plus gaslighting on the trem function and a whole 5k$ for it when the above were all problems upon delivery...
But at a reasonable price in its condition (and I don't mean the 3.5k$ of the second buyer)...eh I have no reason to think it wouldn't be nice enough.


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## DiezelMonster (Jul 21, 2022)

I just read this entire thread, I fuckin love it here and hate it here at the same time.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 21, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I just read this entire thread, I fuckin love it here and hate it here at the same time.


Everything I do, I do it for you.


----------



## mastapimp (Jul 21, 2022)

Tree said:


> I just now, after nearly 20 pages, noticed that the thread is tagged “fraud”. I don’t know why, but that really tickled me


Need an admin to toss "reverb" in front of that fraud tag and also add on "microscopic scrutiny", "chemical imbalance", and "... as seen in Nature Journal"


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## silvio (Jul 21, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> And somehow it pisses people off because they were so proud of their Rusti Guitar and are now shown here that Rusti Guitars is not so great after all.


Well you are gaslighting quite a bit. Basic claims on the finish issues are undisputed - Rusti admitted to those. Some of the Trem Issues are also undisputed.

There also seems to be no dispute that you have agreed to pay 5k for a _prototype_, knowing what the word means, and what it implies.

Now I have ordered quite a few guitars from a number of builders. If I discuss a build and the build is supppesd to be a prototype that should be a yellow to red flag. If the Protype it also includes a fairly complex trem bridge the builder has never used before that should be a red flag. If I look at Rusti's gallery he has a lot of crazy wood stuff, there is some spray painted stuff - the #1 is really the only one that I can find scrolling through his Instagram with this stain / fade kind of finish - Rusti also stated in this thing here it was his first stained finish like that. So that part maybe not be a red flag, but really if you wanted a stained finish like that: Why go to Rusti for a 5k prototype build if the spec is not playing to Rusti's strength?

Knowing all of that: Why don't you ask beforehand whether he has done any test builds with that bridge and whether he can confirm the range of operation for the trem if you have specific requirements. And if you order a "lightweight guitar" and you have a certain weight in mind - put the max. total weight in the spec sheet. Etc.

You are ordering a one off custom build - there is some validity to the "5k shouldn't be" and "I just assumed" - but really due dilligence is on you. You don't buy a house based on "I assumed it has running water". You put _everything_ that is important to you into your spec.

So a lot of this to me seems to be buyer's remorse. I get buyer's remorse, I get getting angry. I don't really get the gaslighting story about the Reverb Listing. It was listed in your name. Just check with Reverb whether they agree to you on your view that you can list stuff in your own name,without disclosing the issues and repairs you are aware of. Plus when asked in a direct message about the guitar and why you were getting rid of it so quickly, you replied the guitar is fine but you just didn't vibe with it. Now that's not a great look ... and it is difficult to see how that would not contradict a lot of your claims about that whole situation.

And gettin gback to your initial review / pictures - I don't know which picture was taken when. So some of the pictures may show issues that you may have caused or enhanced. And the part that the pot was defective as Rusti claims, and that replacing the Pot fixed the tone issue seems credible. But as per your story your professional setup and replacement tecs did not find that issue. Not a great look for a professional tec and whatever was done there?

So yea - there are a number of bads on Rusti in this story. But not a squeaky clean look on you either. And to be honest on the whole late completion thing - I have ordered many custom guitars from different luthiers. Very few were really on time. My Skervesen builds - which per many of your statements here you seem to value as quality reference - were late 18 and almost 24 months. That is not that they took 18 / 24 months to build it - I got them 18/24 after the initially promised build completion time. One was great ... the other wasn't - if I was into whatever you are into, I could have done a similar story on that one. I sold that one off quickly - with full disclosure of all issues I had found!


----------



## mbardu (Jul 21, 2022)

silvio said:


> Well you are gaslighting quite a bit. Basic claims on the finish issues are undisputed - Rusti admitted to those. Some of the Trem Issues are also undisputed.
> 
> There also seems to be no dispute that you have agreed to pay 5k for a _prototype_, knowing what the word means, and what it implies.



This part I don't know. If Rusti told him "I have never used that bridge before and maybe you will not get all functions", or if he told him specifically "the wheel and full floating range will not function" and asked him upfront to acknowledge that, then that's fair. If there was no such warning then it's not really fair and it is a bit of victim blaming.



silvio said:


> Now I have ordered quite a few guitars from a number of builders. If I discuss a build and the build is supppesd to be a prototype that should be a yellow to red flag. If the Protype it also includes a fairly complex trem bridge the builder has never used before that should be a red flag. If I look at Rusti's gallery he has a lot of crazy wood stuff, there is some spray painted stuff - the #1 is really the only one that I can find scrolling through his Instagram with this stain / fade kind of finish - Rusti also stated in this thing here it was his first stained finish like that. So that part maybe not be a red flag, but really if you wanted a stained finish like that: Why go to Rusti for a 5k prototype build if the spec is not playing to Rusti's strength?


If Rusti says "I can build it", takes on the project, and commits to delivering, then the buyer should assume he's capable of building it. The buyer shouldn't have to doubt the builder, look at the whole history of the builder and where he's most likely to screw up, or try and read between the lines of "the builder says he can do it, but I know he's not good at this or that" etc.



silvio said:


> Knowing all of that: Why don't you ask beforehand whether he has done any test builds with that bridge and whether he can confirm the range of operation for the trem if you have specific requirements. And if you order a "lightweight guitar" and you have a certain weight in mind - put the max. total weight in the spec sheet. Etc.
> 
> You are ordering a one off custom build - there is some validity to the "5k shouldn't be" and "I just assumed" - but really due dilligence is on you. You don't buy a house based on "I assumed it has running water". You put _everything_ that is important to you into your spec.



That's really the thing. Where do you want to put the burden? On the buyer or on the builder?
As a buyer, should you have to ask things like "I'm buying a guitar with a trem from you- will it be functional?" or "I'm buying a guitar with electronics from you, will it produce adequate sound?".

For everyone who's been on SSO a bit and is well used to all those stories, it sounds natural to be very careful and cautious and skeptical about _any _custom build.
But that _shouldn't _be normal. As a paying customer, having to be the one putting extra effort in in order to ensure you're not getting screwed is not good.
It's a pretty bad look for the industry that this is the norm and that we have collectively gotten used to it and OK with it.



silvio said:


> You don't buy a house based on "I assumed it has running water".



If you buy an existing house (like a used guitar), you go ahead and have the house appraised and inspected. No surprises. If you have a house built (like a new custom built guitar), and the builder has running water only in half the faucets with excuses like "actually I never built that exact house with faucet model before", you bet you'd be in the right expecting him to give you water in all faucets.


----------



## StevenC (Jul 21, 2022)

mbardu said:


> The routings don't allow for full function of the trem.


I'd just like to point this out again. The routing does allow the full function of the trem as it is set up with the stops built into the trem. It's only when you remove the stops (that were specified in the order) that the routing becomes too shallow.

Now sure this is a bit nitpicky, but DP wanted that trem spec on his guitar so the assumption is it doesn't need to be routed below. It's like ordering a guitar with a top mount floating Floyd. It'll pull up a bit, but it's only intended to go so far.


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## bostjan (Jul 21, 2022)

mbardu said:


> I wouldn't even mind _OP_'s guitar now TBH.
> Don't need crazy range so I'd live with the small top route.
> Rusti did add a route for the wheel as well so the tuning adjustment supposedly works too.
> The electronics that were DOA are fixed so that the guitar can actually produce real sound now too.
> ...


I don't want to disrespect either the OP or Rusti, but, like, there were some valid complaints from both ends, and it maybe just all got out of hand due to some unintended barriers in communication. I wish them both the best moving forward.

But also, even with its flaws, that is a gorgeous guitar. I'd be bummed if I paid $5k and the guitar wasn't anything I imagined that I had wanted, no doubt, but, cosmetically, it's still a 8.5+/10.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 21, 2022)

silvio said:


> I don't really get the gaslighting story about the Reverb Listing. It was listed in your name. Just check with Reverb whether they agree to you on your view that you can list stuff in your own name,without disclosing the issues and repairs you are aware of. Plus when asked in a direct message about the guitar and why you were getting rid of it so quickly, you replied the guitar is fine but you just didn't vibe with it. Now that's not a great look ... and it is difficult to see how that would not contradict a lot of your claims about that whole situation.


Jesus, this is honestly my biggest issue with Puma besides his attitude and rhetoric.


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## jephjacques (Jul 21, 2022)

Puma: I'VE BEEN SCAMMED [proceeds to attempt to scam potential buyers on reverb]


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## ikarus (Jul 21, 2022)

Puma, go whine about your 2 years wait on a custom guitar in the Daemoness thread. The guys will take care of you.


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## jahosy (Jul 21, 2022)

To be fair to OP, i'd be pretty upset too if i paid euro 5k for a brand new guitar with those issues, however minute it may seem. 

Has OP ever considered asking for a discount from Rusti? 

Also with the reverb ad, it seems like OP tried to get Rusti to sell it to begin with (thus getting Rusti to be the 'bad guy' and disclose the flaws) but was refused since he disputed those 'flaws'. 

Man, what a mess


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## Giest (Jul 21, 2022)

I don't understand how people think this is a good looking guitar. It's an expensive looking guitar, but the inlays look kinda dopey or random and the vertical blue to natural maple fade with the walnut body and natural neck wood "headstock" seems discombobulated. The body shape isn't for me, but I'm a traditionalist in such regard. The rest of the cosmetics I would enjoy elements of respectively, but not in this combination.


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## narad (Jul 21, 2022)

Giest said:


> I don't understand how people think this is a good looking guitar. It's an expensive looking guitar, but the inlays look kinda dopey or random and the vertical blue to natural maple fade with the walnut body and natural neck wood "headstock" seems discombobulated. The body shape isn't for me, but I'm a traditionalist in such regard. The rest of the cosmetics I would enjoy elements of respectively, but not in this combination.



I actually didn't like the look of that guitar either. The fade just wasn't doing it for me. But what else doesn't do it for me? -- the spec choices on like 80% of euro builds. It's subjective. Most of Rusti's builds are pretty killer though, especially the koa tops, and he has more traditional superstrat shapes. But I think not many people want to go 5k EUR for something that looks indistinguishable from 2.5k EUR.


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## jco5055 (Jul 21, 2022)

Going back to the tremolo issue, doesn’t this video show that the dual stabilizers don’t cause an issue with pulling up? Unless OP requested the stabilizers be set to mega firm; but in this video it looks like even without stabilizers it would travel the exact same amount upwards


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## SpaceDock (Jul 22, 2022)

Holy sh!t I come back a day later and this threads got 10 more pages! Thread of the year! Gonna order a Rusti!


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## Rusti (Jul 22, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> but in this video it looks like even without stabilizers it would travel the exact same amount upwards


As shown in the #1 plans (middle pic), the bridge can reach a position where the tuners are parallel to the top. As shown in the video.


Rusti said:


>



Infact, you can say it's not a that much of a limitation in it's range. And look on both drawing and video, how shallow the cavity needs to be in order to let the baseplate in.


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## lurè (Jul 22, 2022)

I don't get the argument "this doesnt look like a 5k instrument." 
Are 2,5k and 5k guitars supposed to be built differently?

You basically paid more for specs that the luthier has said have no experience with (so the prototype), and you agreed.


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## Mot90DaD (Jul 22, 2022)

The summary for me is: I would not go out for a beer with OP, nor would I buy a guitar from Rusti. 
I think both have made mistakes here - the OP just makes it very easy to not like him and therefore defend Rusti - but honestly, the guitar I would not have accepted so with that trem, even for 2k...

Well, but I'm luckily out anyway, since I only buy Gibsons anymore. Because with Gibsons there are no issues - we just call it all "Mojo" and all is well  So say again Gibson buyers are stupid


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## Lemonbaby (Jul 22, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Going back to the tremolo issue, doesn’t this video show that the dual stabilizers don’t cause an issue with pulling up? Unless OP requested the stabilizers be set to mega firm; but in this video it looks like even without stabilizers it would travel the exact same amount upwards




The more I look at it, the more I get to the conclusion that thing's a totally over-engineered nightmare. More parts than necessary, more complexity in setup and manufacturing, no advantage whatsoever in real life. Created to offer "something different" to customers who just love to experiment rather than using what exists and works since ages.


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## TheBlackBard (Jul 22, 2022)

MFB said:


> What if Puma IS Rusti?!




Then the system has failed him. The boy was left behind.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

jahosy said:


> To be fair to OP, i'd be pretty upset too if i paid euro 5k for a brand new guitar with those issues, however minute it may seem.
> 
> Has OP ever considered asking for a discount from Rusti?
> 
> ...


I even wanted to send the guitar back to him which he rejected. All was fine with that guitar acc. to him. He still defends all the issues as being OK for a shipped out guitar. As a buyer I was pretty much fucked.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

lurè said:


> I don't get the argument "this doesnt look like a 5k instrument."
> Are 2,5k and 5k guitars supposed to be built differently?
> 
> You basically paid more for specs that the luthier has said have no experience with (so the prototype), and you agreed.


The quality should be great on both. But someone having the balls to mess up a 5 k guitar is worse than someone messing up a 2.5 k guitar.

I did not agree to have a "prototype" or anything flawed, nor a non-functional free-floating trem. I even paid full (and more). Shipping cost and gig bag price was not even included in the 4 800 € I mentioned. Total amount paid was around 5 200 €.

I even wanted a totally different model in the beginning, then Rusti Guitars said "hey, look at this, I have a new model, you would like it?"

You should expect to get a great guitar without these basic issues and as a customer your job is to pay, not more. He should have just declined this, but he even said "I wanted to try out these trems since a while". Why should I have doubts that he is capable?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> Going back to the tremolo issue, doesn’t this video show that the dual stabilizers don’t cause an issue with pulling up? Unless OP requested the stabilizers be set to mega firm; but in this video it looks like even without stabilizers it would travel the exact same amount upwards



In my case the top cavity was what blocked the trem, not the bottom cavity. You can also clearly see how the routing which is recommended by Sophia is much deeper. Rusti even boasted with "I was able to reduce the cavity compared to the Sophia guy". So dumb to go against the spec from the manufacturer.

Also, I like how Rusti Guitars still keeps defending their shitty builds. This shows a lot.  Keep going! 10 more pages incoming.

Rusti Guitars also tried to draw 2 lines into a still image of the Sophia trem video. Unfortunately, he does not know about refractive-index difference between the acrylic and air, so his attempt at drawing "parallel lines" went totally out of control, therefore his argumentation as well.  He should try this attempt in order to sort his bad nuts out however. Also, would be interesting to know what Geoffrey from CSL has to say about the "quite limited range of his design acc. to Rusti". The blame game just keeps getting new challengers involved.







Is that here the "XEN" build?


Was the review for that guitar deleted? What a shame, wanted to read about the cool fretwork which was provided for it.


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## StevenC (Jul 22, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Rusti Guitars also tried to draw 2 lines into a still image of the Sophia trem video. Unfortunately, he does not know about refractive-index difference between the acrylic and air, so his attempt at drawing "parallel lines" went totally out of control, therefore his argumentation as well.


My dude. You don't know what angles are. Don't pretend to have the capacity for refraction.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

StevenC said:


> My dude. You don't know what angles are. Don't pretend to have the capacity for refraction.


Tell that the builder not even able to space string slots correctly for a guitar nut. 

In case the above build is indeed the XEN then I think this thread was badly needed. All the video tells is that his guitars are seemingly OK and work. And not that this thing had very messy fretwork and messy electronics... I believe I would not have chosen Rusti Guitars if had been given this info, so thanks to the owner for finally disclosing this in public.


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## StevenC (Jul 22, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Was the review for that guitar deleted? What a shame, wanted to read about the cool fretwork which was provided for it.


No, the forum has gone through two different forum softwares since 2012 and as such links from 2012 are dead. Slightly surprised you don't know this since your account says 2015.

Here's the current link: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-rusti-guitars-baritone-7.200275/


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

StevenC said:


> No, the forum has gone through two different forum softwares since 2012 and as such links from 2012 are dead. Slightly surprised you don't know this since your account says 2015.
> 
> Here's the current link: https://www.sevenstring.org/threads/ngd-rusti-guitars-baritone-7.200275/


Did not know about this.

So, this is not the XEN build? Still, the excuse so far was that the "XEN build" was from 2012 / 2013 or something and he "is better now". But this reviewed guitar here was also from 2012? As I said before, it is quite odd to find so many different flaws on one guitar, and all others are supposed to be pristine. 

While people thought it would be a good idea to just post random images of other builds, this even led to an incorrect nut filing being pointed out. I mean, how can you trust anything from here? Any guitar could have sketchy stuff, the owner just not noticing because not knowing better.


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## StevenC (Jul 22, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Did not know about this.
> 
> So, this is not the XEN build? Still, the excuse so far was that the "XEN build" was from 2012 / 2013 or something and he "is better now". But this reviewed guitar here was also from 2012? As I said before, it is quite odd to find so many different flaws on one guitar, and all others are supposed to be pristine.
> 
> While people thought it would be a good idea to just post random images of other builds, this even led to an incorrect nut filing being pointed out. I mean, how can you trust anything from here? Any guitar could have sketchy stuff, the owner just not noticing because not knowing better.


Stop reaching


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## NoodleFace (Jul 22, 2022)

holy crap

maybe it's time to just shake hands and agree to disagree the build did not meet your expectations and drop it. At this point, whether right on your claims or not, you're coming off as a massive tool.


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## ikarus (Jul 22, 2022)

/thread


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## StevenC (Jul 22, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> holy crap
> 
> maybe it's time to just shake hands and agree to disagree the build did not meet your expectations and drop it. At this point, whether right on your claims or not, you're coming off as a massive tool.


Like massive tools Rusti uses for precision work?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

Here a direct comparison of nut work from my Rusti Lotus and my Suhr.

Top head of lines (all equally sized and parallel) are acc. to string spacing E-A mid to mid.
Bottom head of lines (all equally sized and parallel) are acc. to space between E and A string.

Suhr:


Rusti Lotus:


The Suhr is really close to perfect and any issue seen here might indeed come from angle issues from being upclose.
The Rusti Guitar however looks much worse. Even for the actual space inbetween strings the string spacing overshoots the target by string diameter + then some additional space.

The measurements are just a quick paint job and in no matter high-precision. But when already these can point out such glaring issues then… BTW I had to use an old pic of the Lotus and zoom in. The actual guitar is not anymore in my hands, or is it?

Keep buying the Rustis for their great workmanship and attention to detail.


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## Alberto7 (Jul 22, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Here a direct comparison of nut work from my Rusti Lotus and my Suhr.
> 
> Top head of lines (all equally sized and parallel) are acc. to string spacing E-A mid to mid.
> Bottom head of lines (all equally sized and parallel) are acc. to space between E and A string.
> ...


No.


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## narad (Jul 22, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Here a direct comparison of nut work from my Rusti Lotus and my Suhr.
> 
> Top head of lines (all equally sized and parallel) are acc. to string spacing E-A mid to mid.
> Bottom head of lines (all equally sized and parallel) are acc. to space between E and A string.
> ...


He even made the distance between the binding line and the string inconsistent on each side. *That, or the photo is at a slight angle.*


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## 4Eyes (Jul 22, 2022)

imagine paying 25k of money for PRS Dragon and then discovering hair thin gaps between inlay pieces under microscope...that would make me seriously pissed off


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

narad said:


> He even made the distance between the binding line and the string inconsistent on each side. *That, or the photo is at a slight angle.*


Actually, just for fun I had a look at his provisional photos and indeed the spacing to the inlay is smaller for the e than for the E. :/ Had I known this when still having it…

So you wanna say know that the bridge was mounted slightly to far on the upper string side? 
I mean feel free to redo the measurement with that photo once more. I am not expecting much difference.

Having a crooked trem to begin with, it is actually quite probable that he also fucked up the exact placement of the bridge. This would be shown by these inlay lines.


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## Mot90DaD (Jul 22, 2022)

Ok, by now I really think this thread has been Kiesel'ed.

It took me so much time to read through the two Kiesel threads, although there was absolutely no relevant info after the first 3 pages - so please don't do that again!


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## prlgmnr (Jul 22, 2022)

Waiting for the "I don't even play guitar" conclusion to all this.


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## jephjacques (Jul 22, 2022)

this thread has become a performance art piece at this point


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> this thread has become a performance art piece at this point


Dito!


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## tian (Jul 22, 2022)

prlgmnr said:


> Waiting for the "I don't even play guitar" conclusion to all this.


At least MG.org's resident basket case is a monster player...


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## Alberto7 (Jul 22, 2022)

I really OP is just getting a kick out of all of this and is the sole reason this thread has lasted so long. Just a big ol' troll, Rusti and his guitar be damned.


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## xzacx (Jul 22, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I mean feel free to redo the measurement with that photo once more. I am not expecting much difference.


Measuring a picture is basically worthless since any slight angle will throw it off. But then again, wasting time is what this thread is all about, so no reason to bring logic in now.


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## narad (Jul 22, 2022)

Alberto7 said:


> I really OP is just getting a kick out of all of this and is the sole reason this thread has lasted so long. Just a big ol' troll, Rusti and his guitar be damned.



I think at some point things don't go your way too such an extreme that you start to pass it off like it wasn't really a legit attempt. It's the "you guys, I was jooooking, obviooously" tactic.


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## nickgray (Jul 22, 2022)

prlgmnr said:


> Waiting for the "I don't even play guitar" conclusion to all this.



That much is a given by this point


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## mastapimp (Jul 22, 2022)

If this thread has taught me anything, it's that I have to take a closer look at all of my gear and reevaluate everything I ever thought I knew about quality woodworking and precision manufacturing. 

OP should probably start a new thread putting John Suhr on blast for these glaring issues:



Completely unacceptable.


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## CanserDYI (Jul 22, 2022)

So from what I gather from the 3 pages of 26 that I've read, the guitar was fine other than a slight misroute of the bridge which doesnt make it unplayable? Is that what I'm gathering?

The cosmetic stuff looked like nothing to worry about at all.


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## tian (Jul 22, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> If this thread has taught me anything, it's that I have to take a closer look at all of my gear and reevaluate everything I ever thought I knew about quality woodworking and precision manufacturing.
> 
> OP should probably start a new thread putting John Suhr on blast for these glaring issues:
> View attachment 111174
> ...


It's hilarious to be so pedantic about a guitar showing up perfect only to absolutely hammer the fuck out of the frets while playing. That's like two years of fret wear for just three strings. What did that first fret ever do to you...?


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## jaxadam (Jul 22, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> If this thread has taught me anything, it's that I have to take a closer look at all of my gear and reevaluate everything I ever thought I knew about quality woodworking and precision manufacturing.
> 
> OP should probably start a new thread putting John Suhr on blast for these glaring issues:
> View attachment 111174
> ...



Good eye and all but how has no one caught on to the fact that he used WHITE PLASTIC for one of the frets?! I mean such a terrible choice, the strings even wore grooves through it!


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## mbardu (Jul 22, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> So from what I gather from the 3 pages of 26 that I've read, the guitar was fine other than a slight misroute of the bridge which doesnt make it unplayable? Is that what I'm gathering?
> 
> The cosmetic stuff looked like nothing to worry about at all.



The trem was unable to float like OP would have wanted it to float, and the adjustment wheel (one of the distinctive feature of the trem) was non functional.
Trem issues were silently fixed/updated for build #2 of that model while Rusti told OP that his guitar was fine.
The electronics were DOA and not checked by the builder because apparently the electronics, like the inlay, are outsourced.
Cosmetics stuff, make of that what you will. Paint lines and small marks on an inlay of that complexity....wouldn't bother me "too much" in general- it's just a shame at this price but not unexpected if you're familiar with those boutique builders.
But aside from that yeah, the guitar was fine


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## tian (Jul 22, 2022)

Great minds think alike...


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 22, 2022)

just like what the fuck maybe DON'T order customs? if you're really that discerning of a player you can obviously make great music on any sort of guitar 

if I've learned anything from SSO it's that over $1.5k you're paying for cosmetics and perfection or just something really weird 

I've played plenty of guitars and my $800 Schecter takes the piss out of just about all of them minus the other 2 I own right now. Paying $5k is way too much and the inherent risk of customs is a terrible idea.

26 pages in like what a week is ridiculous, it's not entertaining at this point and getting more annoying and fucked up although it is making my long ass interstate trip a little more interesting


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## mastapimp (Jul 22, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Good eye and all but how has no one caught on to the fact that he used WHITE PLASTIC for one of the frets?! I mean such a terrible choice, the strings even wore grooves through it!


Just realized that all the shadows cast under the strings, given the angle of refraction and the position of the moon, mean the action is likely jacked all the way up. Calling Suhr support right now.


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## mbardu (Jul 22, 2022)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> just like what the fuck maybe DON'T order customs? if you're really that discerning of a player you can obviously make great music on any sort of guitar
> 
> if I've learned anything from SSO it's that over $1.5k you're paying for cosmetics and perfection or just something really weird
> 
> ...



First there's the line of thinking that getting a bungled up custom is "normal" and nobody should be surprised.
Which is "fine" I guess for frequent conditioned SSO users who spends a lot of time here and know all the horror stories. They won't take a blind risk.
If you're _not _familiar with horror stories and just expect (like with most things) to pay money for something and to get something working...then it can be a bit of a disappointment.

But then you're also saying that "over $1.5k you're paying for cosmetics and perfection", but that's not what was delivered here, which is why OP would be unhappy.

It's quite sad for the entire state of custom guitars that buyers should _expect _something bad/subpar/imperfect/not-to-specs and have no right to complain when not getting their money's worth.

That said, I'm 100% on board with getting a 800$ bucks guitar for playing if it has the specs you need.
You can get awesome stuff nowadays with a used 800$ SK-Schecter.


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## Giest (Jul 22, 2022)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> if I've learned anything from SSO it's that over $1.5k you're paying for cosmetics and perfection or just something really weird



YUP. After that point things only get about 10-15% better at most functionally IMO, so massive diminishing returns on investment considering all the options on the market. Then with customs they more often than not absolutely tank in resale value. $2k production line is right around my sweet spot personally, though I do spend my days wishing Suhr would make a true Strat body 7 string and Mayones would offer different neck profiles.


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## tian (Jul 22, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Just realized that all the shadows cast under the strings, given the angle of refraction and the position of the moon, mean the action is likely jacked all the way up. Calling Suhr support right now.


Make sure you take the full angle of cosine and don't just assume small angles. That'd be unacceptable.


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## nickgray (Jul 22, 2022)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> if I've learned anything from SSO it's that over $1.5k you're paying for cosmetics and perfection or just something really weird



I can understand ordering a custom purely for specs and ergonomic considerations. Looking at the market, it does seem as if most are doing it for the looks and the cool factor though.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 22, 2022)

mbardu said:


> But then you're also saying that "over $1.5k you're paying for cosmetics and perfection", but that's not what was delivered here, which is why OP would be unhappy.
> 
> It's quite sad for the entire state of custom guitars that buyers should _expect _something bad/subpar/imperfect/not-to-specs and have no right to complain when not getting their money's worth.
> 
> ...




Oh I totally get why he was unhappy and I get why the thread initially happened, it just seems like for 95% of players you're getting the quality you need under that 1.5k mark. He got a bungled prototype that didn't do what it was supposed to and is completely valid, it's correct to present experience so people know and can make their own judgment on what they buy. It's good to have threads like where this was intended to go since so many builders don't have any feedback or just sponsored reviews which only say good things. 

In my opinion, it's just not worth going custom with how many of these stories pop up here since in many instances people are just getting a pretty super strat design and then are like ???? when it's super late, never shows up, or it's not worth the money. I love the concept and I was considering the route in the far future when I'd have the money and gigs since I like weird stupid specs but between modding and hunting rare production models it's just not gonna be worth it. If you get a bad production line guitar, chances are you can return it for a full refund. Customs don't have that same safety net in most cases.


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## Gango79 (Jul 22, 2022)

mbardu said:


> The trem was unable to float like OP would have wanted it to float, and the adjustment wheel (one of the distinctive feature of the trem) was non functional.
> Trem issues were silently fixed/updated for build #2 of that model while Rusti told OP that his guitar was fine.
> The electronics were DOA and not checked by the builder because apparently the electronics, like the inlay, are outsourced.
> Cosmetics stuff, make of that what you will. Paint lines and small marks on an inlay of that complexity....wouldn't bother me "too much" in general- it's just a shame at this price but not unexpected if you're familiar with those boutique builders.
> But aside from that yeah, the guitar was fine


You are simplifying too much . I would like to clarify this…the inlays are not ousourced! All the dirty work is made by Claudio a part electronics. Said that the guitar was tested before shipment. Once arrived the puma realized that the type of bridge HE WANTED, never work as expected. By the way the guitar was fixed free by Claudio in order to help OP to float the bridge like he wanted BUT Puma decided to sell it on reverb.
But Puma not satisfied is keep hiding behind useless excuses like little flaws that no one normally notices and which are normal in a luthier guitar in order to justify your dissatisfaction. And because of this he continues refers to Rusti guitars as shitty.
I would point the attention on another thing. Guitar like Rusti, padalka, vik, carillion aren’t cheap. Is a customer choice choose one of this brand . So 5k is justified by the long workmanship (one man involved in production). In particular this specific guitar (that was a prototype) has a resin inlay along all the fretboard and selected wood that aren’t cheap.


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## Gango79 (Jul 22, 2022)

But I agree that this thread has become a colossal


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> You are simplifying too much . I would like to clarify this…the inlays are not ousourced! All the dirty work is made by Claudio a part electronics. Said that the guitar was tested before shipment. Once arrived the puma realized that the type of bridge HE WANTED, never work as expected. By the way the guitar was fixed free by Claudio in order to help OP to float the bridge like he wanted BUT Puma decided to sell it on reverb.
> But Puma not satisfied is keep hiding behind useless excuses like little flaws that no one normally notices and which are normal in a luthier guitar in order to justify your dissatisfaction. And because of this he continues refers to Rusti guitars as shitty.
> I would point the attention on another thing. Guitar like Rusti, padalka, vik, carillion aren’t cheap. Is a customer choice choose one of this brand . So 5k is justified by the long workmanship (one man involved in production). In particular this specific guitar (that was a prototype) has a resin inlay along all the fretboard and selected wood that aren’t cheap.


Nope, not true. Claudio outsources the inlay work, the electronics, and the paint job. True at least for my job. Some very minor and easy inlay work, maybe he can "do" that.

You really try to defend that guy until the end without knowing anything.
Also, whether one man does or 1 000 men do the job makes not much of a difference in price. Being self-employed and doing everything on your own (which he actually does not) let's you cut costs, you do not have to pay for your employees, their insurances, whatever. Having had my RUSTI EXPERIENCE I would rather go with any established builder like Suhr. They offer value for the money. Customer support is also superb.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 22, 2022)

I mean outsourcing certain things isn't really such a crazy concept, Jackson/Schecter outsourced Inlay work to Ron Thorn plenty of times. It's not really indicative of anything, just that certain people are better at certain things than others. 

Some builders don't do their electronics themselves, not everyone can really grasp a basic wiring diagram although it's relatively simple. At the end of the day the dude is milling the wood, CNCing it, sanding it to his desired shape and having the rest of the steps completed elsewhere can explain the high cost because you have to now pay the rates of the other parties involved to complete one off/batch work.

Suhr/PRS has dozens of hands building your masterpiece unless you want to pay top dollar for less people to do so because their time is worth more.

I'm curious how you can speak so confidently about other people's guitars you haven't played and make the claim that everything he builds is crap. Is that what order #2 is meant to prove? And what if that build has no/minimal issues, are you going to order a third until you basically prove that statistically Rusti produces bad guitars more often than good ones?

Overall the screenshots you've posted seem to show Rusti will still chat with you regardless of you being belligerent or not. The flip side is getting ghosted and not getting anything at all if you start talking the way you did (IE: Vik/Hufschmid/etc).


----------



## mastapimp (Jul 22, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I'm curious how you can speak so confidently about other people's guitars you haven't played and make the claim that everything he builds is crap. Is that what order #2 is meant to prove? And what if that build has no/minimal issues, are you going to order a third until you basically prove that statistically Rusti produces bad guitars more often than good ones?


Narcissistic Personality Disorder


----------



## KentBrockman (Jul 22, 2022)

I'm not really following the drama, but a 5000 euro guitar probably shouldn't have some of those finish issues and I would expect to be able to pull up the trem properly too.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

KentBrockman said:


> I'm not really following the drama, but a 5000 euro guitar probably shouldn't have some of those finish issues and I would expect to be able to pull up the trem properly.


I agree and that is why I created this thread in the first place. Then Rusti and his troop flooded in and tried to disprove the points in the initial post (that Gango still tries to shift the blame from Rusti to me by saying "I wanted the trem", however, Rusti was very interested in adding this trem and offered to build the guitar // also Rusti was adamant that all was correct with the guitar and offer to ship and really correct (not setup) was only made after intense pressure from my side).

I just make a point about Rusti's quality, this is not me wanting to look good in some internet thread. Of course, I have to be up for heavy "discussion" when I want to defend my point. But actually, my initial post was never disproven. People only tried to discredit the critic here.

And adding to your point: trem was also crooked... back then I did not go into every detail like the nut slots etc. I just did now, because some guy was asking me "is there anything wrong with this other guitar from him??". And just by chance, the nut slots were indeed very sloppy, angle is no excuse. The guy could just go and measure and provide proof of the measurements.


----------



## Matt08642 (Jul 22, 2022)

All issues aside, I don't understand how people are overcomplicating the Sophia 2:92 so much as if it's some wild unique unheard of design. It's literally designed as a drop in replacement for a Floyd Rose and this particular version just has a different trem block than a Floyd (A block I believe you can purchase and install on a standard Floyd?) and some fancy saddles on top. The same basic mechanical function is still there, you just have some stoppers (which have been around in some form since the 80s, most of them just attach to the guitar body rather than the block) and the global tuning wheel which just moves the block for minor overall tension-compensating adjustments as far as I can tell. I'd also be upset about the crooked mounting for 5k, but I digress...

The trem-setting pins are just a version of this inside the block:




Or this:




As you can see, these devices would also inhibit pull-up range, the difference is when you remove them you have that range back due to the properly routed top cavity. What happened on OPs guitar was an oversight by the builder in my opinion since he only routed the cavity to the depth required if the pins were installed, but once removed there simply wasn't enough space to pull up.

The bridge routing on OPs guitar reminds me of the Wolfgang, where it's routed down to be a bit recessed, but you will not get pull up range:




As for where the blame lies, I don't know. If I was blowing that much on a guitar I would itemize every single feature I wanted in a list like this:

- Floyd Rose Original FRT100 (Chrome) - routed for fully floating setup, routed for pull up functionality (links to examples)
- DiMarzio DP159FPK (Pink with black pole pieces) Evolution F-Spaced Bridge humbucker
- DiMarzio EP1201 Custom Taper Potentiometer for Volume Position

etc.

If I was the builder, I would work with the person ordering if anything was left vague. For instance if OP said "I want a Sophia 2:92" I would want to get the exact model, specs, expectations, colors, etc.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jul 22, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> And adding to your point: trem was also crooked... back then I did not go into every detail like the nut slots etc. I just did now, because some guy was asking me "is there anything wrong with this other guitar from him??". And just by chance, the nut slots were indeed very sloppy, angle is no excuse. The guy could just go and measure and provide proof of the measurements.



I'm curious, do you think the high E here is sitting at the edge of the fingerboard?




Angle plays drastically into how you perceive precise measurements, which is precisely why you can't eyeball precise values. You need a lesson in perspective distortion my friend.


----------



## Matt08642 (Jul 22, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I'm curious, do you think the high E here is sitting at the edge of the fingerboard?
> 
> View attachment 111199
> 
> ...



Next you're going to tell me Ian McKellen wasn't actually twice the height of the Hobbits in LoTR and it was all some kind of trickery!


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 22, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I'm curious, do you think the high E here is sitting at the edge of the fingerboard?
> 
> View attachment 111199
> 
> ...


Man, please do not start to argue with angles close to 45° when the photos I provided might be a max of 5°.
Furthermore, angle is not the issue here, this explains things when you try to look at different planes, however, we are looking at the plane of strings (strings are actually not one linear plane, but rather a curved plane, but only very slightly for such a radius as given here). The only thing which matters here is depth of distance perception. But again, at the slight angles which are at play here, this does not make up for the difference in these pics.  The guy with that one Rusti should just go and measure his nut and then provide clear proof of the measurements and values. Just use a caliper.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 22, 2022)

Matt08642 said:


> If I was blowing that much on a guitar I would itemize every single feature I wanted in a list like this:



I have a nagging suspicion that a lot of people order a custom primarily for the nebulous idea of ordering a custom. You know, handmade and all that.

Tbh, after OP's meltdown (further meltdown, one should say) and totally honest second hand selling practices, I'm unwilling to give him the benefit of the doubt on anything. Unless I see the actual guitar, or an independent 3rd party (who at least knows how nuts are spaced...) inspects it, the only giveaway is maybe prod Rusti some extra and explain extra hard (which you should do in any case) what you want from the instrument.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jul 22, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Man, please do not start to argue with angles close to 45° when the photos I provided might be a max of 5°.
> Furthermore, angle is not the issue here, this explains things when you try to look at different planes, however, we are looking at the plane of strings (strings are actually not one linear plane, but rather a curved plane, but only very slightly for such a radius as given here). The only thing which matters here is depth of distance perception. But again, at the slight angles which are at play here, this does not make up for the difference in these pics.  The guy with that one Rusti should just go and measure his nut and then provide clear proof of the measurements and values. Just use a caliper.



If you don't understand perspective distortion/shift as you extend the angle of what you're observing that's alright a lot of people don't understand it. I've seen people assume that strings don't line up with the poles on pickups when all they're looking at is a slightly off angle photo.

Your test of "copying a colored line, and pasting it at each string interval isn't a valid test to identify an issue with string spacing at the nut. Like you said you need calipers, or a flat edged ruler against the strings to really measure it accurately.

So again, what authority do you claim that the strings are off when the photo you used as your metric was taken at an angle and your test didn't account for this?


----------



## Gango79 (Jul 22, 2022)

after 5 days of agony….Puma sentenced that even my Rusti (of which I am very proud) is a crappy build … we all have a lot to learn from you. At 43 I still have a long way to go.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jul 22, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> after 5 days of agony….Puma sentenced that even my Rusti (of which I am very proud) is a crappy build … we all have a lot to learn from you. At 43 I still have a long way to go.



I guess by that measure since @narad & @StevenC have played garbage Skervesens, we can safely assume as he does that Puma's Skervesen also must be a crappy guitar!


----------



## prlgmnr (Jul 22, 2022)

I just crushed my nuts trying to get a measurement with my calipers


----------



## Giest (Jul 22, 2022)

For 5k in European wampum what guitar would you guys buy? Or for however much that equals in USD/whatever currently.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 22, 2022)

Giest said:


> For 5k in European wampum what guitar would you guys buy?



Several used Prestiges.


----------



## tian (Jul 22, 2022)

tian said:


> Make sure you take the full angle of cosine and don't just assume small angles. That'd be unacceptable.





DirtyPuma said:


> Man, please do not start to argue with angles close to 45° when the photos I provided might be a max of 5°.


Shit, I was wrong. We are allowed to assume small angles.

EDIT: To save everyone the time of having to do the derivations themselves in order to keep up with this rapidly moving thread, some equations for the reflection and transmission of waves


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 22, 2022)

Giest said:


> For 5k in European wampum what guitar would you guys buy? Or for however much that equals in USD/whatever currently.


something that will have actual resale value down the road or at minimum, a couple of very nice guitars.


----------



## AltecGreen (Jul 22, 2022)

Giest said:


> For 5k in European wampum what guitar would you guys buy? Or for however much that equals in USD/whatever currently.




I would have no problems buying a Dean Gordon or Waghorn. Dean is building another for me right now and I just ordered another Waghorn. I would have no issues with ordering from Sago in Japan. 


I order a lot of custom made items not just guitars. Usually the reason is you want something that is not mass produced. There is a big difference between say custom tailored clothing versus stuff of the rack if you have an odd body size. The custom stuff just fits. 

A custom order is not for everyone because there is no way to judge the final outcome until the item is done. So it comes with a measure of risk. If you are going to do a custom order you have to understand this risk and accept the consequences.


----------



## Lemonbaby (Jul 22, 2022)

Giest said:


> For 5k in European wampum what guitar would you guys buy? Or for however much that equals in USD/whatever currently.



Why even spend 5k Euros? There's sooo many nice guitars for 2k-2.5k.


----------



## Giest (Jul 22, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Several used Prestiges.



Yea that's probably what I would do as well. Maybe one J Custom and a custom neck without the stupid vine inlays then just pocket the rest.


----------



## MetalDaze (Jul 22, 2022)

You might ask yourself, "what is a Dirty Puma?" Urban Dictionary has an answer 



> Dirty Puma is an espresso drink you may get from a barista to whom you have been rude, or whom you have otherwise mistreated. Barista shoes are often stained with the color and flavor of many spilled shots. Because of this, the slighted coffee-maker may justify the otherwise immoral action of pouring the rude-lingers shot through the said "Dirty Puma" tenny-runner, by concentrating on the unique essence and custom java drinking experience bestowed upon this deserving party.


----------



## NoodleFace (Jul 22, 2022)

The real question is did this thread go the way OP had hoped.

To really get into this though, I'm gonna need some calipers.


----------



## lurè (Jul 22, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> You might ask yourself, "what is a Dirty Puma?" Urban Dictionary has an answer



So his name is basically his story: he ordered a 5k espresso from an Italian barista and didnt like it.


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 22, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> You might ask yourself, "what is a Dirty Puma?" Urban Dictionary has an answer


i just vomited in my mouth


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 22, 2022)

tian said:


> Shit, I was wrong. We are allowed to assume small angles.
> 
> EDIT: To save everyone the time of having to do the derivations themselves in order to keep up with this rapidly moving thread, some equations for the reflection and transmission of waves


maxwell's equations and vectors. used to live that stuff. cant even remember how to solve it now.


----------



## tian (Jul 22, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> You might ask yourself, "what is a Dirty Puma?" Urban Dictionary has an answer


Do people actually use "tenny-runner"? That sounds like what you get when trying to tennis shoe after having a stroke.


----------



## KentBrockman (Jul 22, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Several used Prestiges.


It's a meme on this site but it really is the correct answer...my 7th Prestige arrived in the mail yesterday.


Giest said:


> Yea that's probably what I would do as well. Maybe one J Custom and a custom neck without the stupid vine inlays then just pocket the rest.


What you want is a used RG3120 and a refinish because plenty of people who sell them online do not take of them...chips galore. Nice 5mm maple cap, offset dot inlays, powder-coated hardware, and a black headstock = glorious. I really want Ibanez to reissue this.

In fact, it would be great if they started using powder cosmo hardware again. The cosmo black hardware does not hold up as well on the Edge Pro. The powder cosmo on the Edge Zero is even worse. I have two RG3120s and an 2002-built RG1570 and the hardware looks great after 23 and 20 years, respectively.

I did buy a 2011 RG1527Z last year on eBay. The hardware looked gross for a 10 year old guitar - worse than the pictures looked. I sold that one soon after...


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## tian (Jul 22, 2022)

KentBrockman said:


> It's a meme on this site but it really is the correct answer...my 7th Prestige arrived in the mail yesterday.


It's a meme now (and still good advice) but it became the default answer because not long ago when the classifieds weren't dead here like they are now, you could pick up Prestiges for like $500 any day of the week. Everything is more expensive now but Prestige prices have had quite the glow up.

RIP the days of the $300 MIJ RG7421...


----------



## Giest (Jul 22, 2022)

KentBrockman said:


> used RG3120



Yea they are gorgeous and worth refinishing for sure, but I only play 7's sadly.


----------



## Alberto7 (Jul 22, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> You need a lesson in perspective distortion my friend.


Nah, pretty sure he gets it alright. He's just fucking with all of us. It's kinda fun though.


----------



## tian (Jul 22, 2022)

Alberto7 said:


> Nah, pretty sure he gets it alright. He's just fucking with all of us. It's kinda fun though.


Who shitposts the shitter...?


----------



## Alberto7 (Jul 22, 2022)

tian said:


> Who shitposts the shitter...?


Only reason I'm still on this thread is because I haven't shitposted in years and I am living for all of it.


----------



## jco5055 (Jul 22, 2022)

KentBrockman said:


> It's a meme on this site but it really is the correct answer...my 7th Prestige arrived in the mail yesterday.
> 
> What you want is a used RG3120 and a refinish because plenty of people who sell them online do not take of them...chips galore. Nice 5mm maple cap, offset dot inlays, powder-coated hardware, and a black headstock = glorious. I really want Ibanez to reissue this.
> 
> ...



They need GOTOH to make the ZR again and just ignore the stabilizers so they don't get sued by CSL again


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## StevenC (Jul 22, 2022)

Giest said:


> For 5k in European wampum what guitar would you guys buy? Or for however much that equals in USD/whatever currently.


Ibanez M8M


Lemonbaby said:


> Why even spend 5k Euros? There's sooo many nice guitars for 2k-2.5k.


Because none of them are M8Ms.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 23, 2022)

@DirtyPuma hasn't whined in 12 hours. Should we send a search and rescue party? #whereispuma


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## narad (Jul 23, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> @DirtyPuma hasn't whined in 12 hours. Should we send a search and rescue party? #whereispuma


Maybe just the search one.


----------



## nickgray (Jul 23, 2022)

Maybe he decided to wash up finally


----------



## tian (Jul 23, 2022)

I see we've decided to poke the corpse with a stick...


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## 4Eyes (Jul 23, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Maybe he decided to wash up finally


After not owning the guitar in question, already


----------



## ikarus (Jul 24, 2022)

thread idea: we post pics of our favourite/best guitars and then Puma picks them apart and tells us whats wrong with the guitars.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 25, 2022)




----------



## aWoodenShip (Jul 25, 2022)

Couldn't resist. Thanks for being a good sport Rusti lol.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 25, 2022)




----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 25, 2022)

ikarus said:


> thread idea: we post pics of our favourite/best guitars and then Puma picks them apart and tells us whats wrong with the guitars.


it could be like sending a baseball or pokemon card out to get PSA graded...which stands for "Professional Sports Authenticator"

or in this case...
Pumas 
Scathing 
Assessment


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jul 25, 2022)

Fuggin'...Undergrad PTSD via Maxwell's Equations was not what I expected in this thread but I can't say I'm surprised after catching up.


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 25, 2022)

BlackMastodon said:


> Fuggin'...Undergrad PTSD via Maxwell's Equations was not what I expected in this thread but I can't say I'm surprised after catching up.



I love the simplicity of the divergence of a magnetic field (del dot B = 0) implies no magnetic monopoles.


----------



## tian (Jul 25, 2022)

"What do you mean the class is only four equations? That doesn't sound so bad..."


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 25, 2022)

tian said:


> "What do you mean the class is only four equations? That doesn't sound so bad..."



My classical mechanics class was only one!


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jul 25, 2022)

Guys pls no mas


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 25, 2022)




----------



## KentBrockman (Jul 26, 2022)

Well, I decided to read more of this thread. Page 22 had me laughing out loud at past 2AM.


----------



## Gango79 (Jul 26, 2022)

Ok guys! we can start our new game “find the flaws”






Facebook







www.facebook.com


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 26, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> Ok guys! we can start our new game “find the flaws”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which idiot would make a nut like this? This is so dumb and makes the nut only more prone to breakage.

Besides: That body is so laughably thick, who designs this crap?
There is no reason why this thing has to be so thick, i.e. heavy.





You just have to look at the whole thing. Looks like a massive ball sac with a teenie weenie. 🫡
The control knobs are so close together that it is quite easy to mess with the 2nd one by accident. All these details which cannot be addressed by a guy who does not play guitar himself. It shows.


----------



## Gango79 (Jul 26, 2022)




----------



## cip 123 (Jul 26, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Which idiot would make a nut like this? This is so dumb and makes the nut only more prone to breakage.
> 
> Besides: That body is so laughably thick, who designs this crap?
> There is no reason why this thing has to be so thick, i.e. heavy.


Can I see your guitar designs?


----------



## tian (Jul 26, 2022)

This is like one of those TV shows that should have stopped after it's first season before becoming a meme of itself and losing all the intrigue of the first.

A "warning" thread is kind of pointless and disingenuous if it just becomes a hole for the OP to troll, shitpost and revel in.


----------



## prlgmnr (Jul 26, 2022)

cip 123 said:


> Can I see your guitar designs?


I believe he had a significant hand in "Rusti Lotus Prototype #001", the whereabouts of which we are still to ascertain


----------



## lurè (Jul 26, 2022)

You didnt like the design so much that you dropped 5k for a build


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## Alberto7 (Jul 26, 2022)

Gango79 said:


> Ok guys! we can start our new game “find the flaws”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ask and ye shall receive.



DirtyPuma said:


> Which idiot would make a nut like this? This is so dumb and makes the nut only more prone to breakage.
> 
> Besides: That body is so laughably thick, who designs this crap?
> There is no reason why this thing has to be so thick, i.e. heavy.
> ...


And receiveth thou hast.


----------



## Randy (Jul 26, 2022)

All things considered, I wish I had the cash for a Rusti now. Thanks OP. Liked, followed and subscribed.


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## StevenC (Jul 26, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> The control knobs are so close together that it is quite easy to mess with the 2nd one by accident. All these details which cannot be addressed by a guy who does not play guitar himself. It shows.


Based on every other Lotus with 2 knobs, it's probably fair to say that was a choice by the customer. You can tell the customer is an imbecile by the choice of top and matching pickups.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 26, 2022)

Randy said:


> All things considered, I wish I had the cash for a Rusti now. Thanks OP. Liked, followed and subscribed.


You have issues affording 5 k?


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 26, 2022)

prlgmnr said:


> I believe he had a significant hand in "Rusti Lotus Prototype #001", the whereabouts of which we are still to ascertain


You can throw anything at Rusti Guitars. As long as it's 5 k, you got a deal with the devil.


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## jaxadam (Jul 26, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You have issues affording 5 k?



I have issues running a 5k!


----------



## nickgray (Jul 26, 2022)

I want a Rusti just to spite DirtyPuma


----------



## BlackMastodon (Jul 26, 2022)

tian said:


> This is like one of those TV shows that should have stopped after it's first season before becoming a meme of itself and losing all the intrigue of the first.
> 
> A "warning" thread is kind of pointless and disingenuous if it just becomes a hole for the OP to troll, shitpost and revel in.


That's the beauty of it: the thread has done a complete 180 and now serves as a warning against potential luthiers/sellers to stay away from OP, lest they fall prey to his scrutinous gaze.


----------



## tian (Jul 26, 2022)

BlackMastodon said:


> That's the beauty of it: the thread has done a complete 180 and now serves as a warning against potential luthiers/sellers to stay away from OP, lest they fall prey to his scrutinous gaze.


Ok, fair lol.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jul 26, 2022)

lurè said:


> You didnt like the design so much that you dropped 5k for a build


Twice(?)


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 26, 2022)

nickgray said:


> I want a Rusti just to spite DirtyPuma


In that case I am buying all of these crappers in order to save you, my friend.


----------



## dmlinger (Jul 26, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You have issues affording 5 k?


Rude. Puma is now pulling straight Anna Delvey shit.

"you look poor"


----------



## seekfreed (Jul 26, 2022)

Man, this troll must be morbidly obese by now after this 30 page long feeding frenzy...


----------



## nickgray (Jul 26, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> In that case I am buying all of these crappers in order to save you, my friend.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 26, 2022)

nickgray said:


>


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 26, 2022)

@DirtyPuma can you tell us anything about this guitar?


----------



## bostjan (Jul 26, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> @DirtyPuma can you tell us anything about this guitar?


Can't even pull up on the bar!


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 26, 2022)

bostjan said:


> Can't even pull up on the bar!


----------



## xzacx (Jul 26, 2022)

Look at that pathetic pole piece alignment:


----------



## tian (Jul 26, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> @DirtyPuma can you tell us anything about this guitar?


I absolutely adore this guitar because not only is it cool as shit but it had people spending $20k a decade ago for recreations of what essentially an amalgamation of dumpster pieces cobbled together by Van Halen when he was high out of his mind.


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 26, 2022)

xzacx said:


> Look at that pathetic pole piece alignment:



:fistbump:



tian said:


> I absolutely adore this guitar because not only is it cool as shit but it had people spending $20k a decade ago for recreations of what essentially an amalgamation of dumpster pieces cobbled together by Van Halen when he was high out of his mind.



You have issues affording 20 k?


----------



## nickgray (Jul 26, 2022)




----------



## tian (Jul 26, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> You have issues affording 20 k?


Course not. That's what, like, not even 1/5th the cost of the lab time at Brookhaven needed to make sure all the details are correct...


----------



## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 27, 2022)




----------



## StevenC (Jul 27, 2022)

Being back neg rep


----------



## Velokki (Jul 27, 2022)

Geez.

I was really curious to order a Rusti some years back when I was looking for the perfect guitar in a vicious circle of GAS. So glad I didn't. Ever since I tried a local luthier's guitar with hemispherical fret ends (that were _much less_ pronounced and obvious than Rusti's) I knew Rusti's frets were most likely going to be trouble. I couldn't do proper vibrato on the top high E string without it slipping, and I was also slipping on the lowest string. When I saw Rusti's unbelievable-looking hemispherical fretwork, I knew that it was very flashy and cool in pictures - but with a 90% probability, super annoying and distracting when playing.

_*EDIT; I now read page 2. and 3... will not read the rest  Anyway, I adore Rusti's work but I'm forever scared off of hemispherical fret ends.*_

To be honest, I've quite completely lost interest in so called custom shop instruments. Mostly because if I buy a guitar that looks super cool, I don't even think about it in a couple of months - I just want to have an instrument that plays great. And for that, production guitars are the best. "Just buy a used Prestige", or as I would put it "Just buy a used ESP", goes a long way. No stress and you have a very high hit rate of getting a top tier instrument.

If you really need to go custom, try Aristides. I would even label them in a special way - I'd say they're "custom production" guitars, since their QC is pretty much flawless and they only have a certain model palette available. They're not gonna build you a King V or a Razorback with a protruding McDonald's logo and Kiesel bevels, but you can have a really good 060. Or an 070. And you will never have a dead spot or any design-related problems, like the tremolo on the Rusti. I just took delivery of my new 070 Evertune, and it f'in slays. Flawless all around. And I know if I would ever have any problems, they will sort me out so I'll be happy. You might not like the tone of them, you might not dig the aesthetics.... but if you do, you're in for a great time.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jul 27, 2022)

Velokki said:


> Holy shit.
> 
> I was really curious to order a Rusti some years back when I was looking for the perfect guitar in a vicious circle of GAS. So glad I didn't. Ever since I tried a local luthier's guitar with hemispherical fret ends (that were _much less_ pronounced and obvious than Rusti's) I knew Rusti was most likely going to be trouble. I couldn't do proper vibrato on the top high E string without it slipping, and I was also slipping on the lowest string. When I saw Rusti's unbelievable-looking hemispherical fretwork, I knew that it was very flashy and cool in pictures - but with a 90% probability, super annoying and distracting when playing!
> 
> ...



I wanted to circle back on this, because I have 3 guitars with "ball end" frets, and I've literally never ran into issues with bending. From at least 4 different brands no less.

I don't know if this is common, but how often are you bending "outwardly"? I don't think I ever bend away from the fingerboard when playing the high E/B strings, vice versa with the low E. High strings bend upwards to the bass side, and the low strings bend down toward the treble side.

Even if you take something like the G string and bend it up then down repeatedly, it doesn't conventionally even sound good. Since you have this weird rubber banding effect, meaning no matter what direction you bend, you're raising the pitch so oscillating up and down without bend away from the starting pitch just sounds bad. So that being said shouldn't ball end frets never be an issue with enough clearance? You're never bending towards the waterfall, so you shouldn't slide off ever.

I agree on the CS bit, I've realized recently that most people don't go custom for playability reasons (preferred neck profile/radius/fret size) but more for aesthetics in general.

The guitar market is tenfold more diverse than it was in 2010, we were begging Ibanez for an ebony board on anything and anything but a white/black finish. You can likely compromise on a few specs and get a guitar ready to ship that fits 90% of your needs far easier now than you used to. It's the biggest reason why Carvin/Kiesel was so popular, they hit the price threshold and catalog of options so sweetly than the entry point to get something "semi-custom" was now accessible.

I remember my first *custom *experience, Ron Thorn literally asked me questions about my neck to be built to my tastes and I couldn't give him a clear answer because I'd never thought about it. I had guitars with thin and thick necks, small/x-jumbo frets.

I will second Aristides, especially with the Euro weakened as close to how it was in 2016. They're still my mainstays and I always have my E Standard 060 on my desk guitar holder, they are super consistent and stunning guitars.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 27, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I wanted to circle back on this, because I have 3 guitars with "ball end" frets, and I've literally never ran into issues with bending. From at least 4 different brands no less.
> 
> I don't know if this is common, but how often are you bending "outwardly"? I don't think I ever bend away from the fingerboard when playing the high E/B strings, vice versa with the low E. High strings bend upwards to the bass side, and the low strings bend down toward the treble side.
> 
> ...


I was facing the same issue on my Rusti, e string was very prone to slipping off the fretboard for vibrato. Never faced this with any other guitar. But I think it is already quite clear that his guitars are a mess when you're looking for a guitar which is not for IG pics but for performance.



Velokki said:


> Geez.
> 
> I was really curious to order a Rusti some years back when I was looking for the perfect guitar in a vicious circle of GAS. So glad I didn't. Ever since I tried a local luthier's guitar with hemispherical fret ends (that were _much less_ pronounced and obvious than Rusti's) I knew Rusti's frets were most likely going to be trouble. I couldn't do proper vibrato on the top high E string without it slipping, and I was also slipping on the lowest string. When I saw Rusti's unbelievable-looking hemispherical fretwork, I knew that it was very flashy and cool in pictures - but with a 90% probability, super annoying and distracting when playing.
> 
> ...


You could have been me in a different timeline. You should feel lucky to have looked elsewhere.


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## Velokki (Jul 27, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I wanted to circle back on this, because I have 3 guitars with "ball end" frets, and I've literally never ran into issues with bending. From at least 4 different brands no less.
> 
> I don't know if this is common, but how often are you bending "outwardly"? I don't think I ever bend away from the fingerboard when playing the high E/B strings, vice versa with the low E. High strings bend upwards to the bass side, and the low strings bend down toward the treble side.
> 
> ...


Hmm, fair enough! This was a small local luthier. So maybe his build just wasn't great. I even have an ESP Horizon that has minor issues with high E string slipping, even my friend noticed it. And I don't notice such issues on any other guitars I own. These experiences have had me really scared of such extreme ball-end frets such as Rusti's. But I guess I'd just have to play a guitar that he's made.

And about the CS - yeah, it's mostly aesthetics now. 7 and 8-strings, multiscales and all, are available with all kinds of tops.

And yeah, Aristides just killed my gas for many other guitars. They just work, and that's what I want from a guitar. Not get a cracked ebony board, not have a dead spot, not fight with changing climate bending the neck, not fight with any design problems.


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## tian (Jul 27, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I wanted to circle back on this, because I have 3 guitars with "ball end" frets, and I've literally never ran into issues with bending. From at least 4 different brands no less.
> 
> I don't know if this is common, but how often are you bending "outwardly"? I don't think I ever bend away from the fingerboard when playing the high E/B strings, vice versa with the low E. High strings bend upwards to the bass side, and the low strings bend down toward the treble side.
> 
> ...


Definitely agree on the "ball end" frets. It used to a general signifier of boutique guitars and had a certain "ohh shiny" aspect to them but in actual playing, never noticed them. And now tons of guitar companies are throwing them on all levels of guitars to make them appear fancy when the frets aren't even necessarily level. 

I feel like nicely rounded fret board edges have more of a "feel" impact if that's your kind of thing then fret end finishing.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 27, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> I was facing the same issue on my Rusti, e string was very prone to slipping off the fretboard for vibrato. Never faced this with any other guitar. But I think it is already quite clear that his guitars are a mess when you're looking for a guitar which is not for IG pics but for performance.


Have you played anything else with ball end frets? 

I've had several Blackwater/Viks/Ibanez guitars that feature ball end frets just like Rusti does. If you have a problem on the Rusti it'd likely extend to anything else that features ball end frets. 

Unless you make a neck comically wider than the string spacing to account for this it's likely just poor technique on your end making you slide off the fretboard, you shouldn't be bending outwardly in the first place unless it's intentional.



Velokki said:


> Hmm, fair enough! This was a small local luthier. So maybe his build just wasn't great. I even have an ESP Horizon that has minor issues with high E string slipping, even my friend noticed it. And I don't notice such issues on any other guitars I own. These experiences have had me really scared of such extreme ball-end frets such as Rusti's. But I guess I'd just have to play a guitar that he's made.
> 
> And about the CS - yeah, it's mostly aesthetics now. 7 and 8-strings, multiscales and all, are available with all kinds of tops.
> 
> And yeah, Aristides just killed my gas for many other guitars. They just work, and that's what I want from a guitar. Not get a cracked ebony board, not have a dead spot, not fight with changing climate bending the neck, not fight with any design problems.



I can totally understand that, to be honest other than being aesthetically pleasing it doesn't do much for you. If a fretboard shrinks you'll still feel the bottom of the fret extend off the fingerboard on any guitar with ball end frets 

I've seen complaints about this before on EBMMs way back in the day. This was always a combination of factors though, EBMM neck spacing is super narrow and their slope was very deep so the distance between the string and the edge of the fret "waterfall" was super small on EBMMs.







You got way more distance on the Rusti/Viks/Blackwaters etc. (Ibanez Premium stuff came with ball end for awhile). So long as it's accounted for you shouldn't run into too many issues, but I'm sure any builder would be willing to do fretwork in a more standard clip -> file/polish minimally vs the ball end stuff if you asked for it.

I hear you on that, the fact that I was able to just scope Reverb for a multiscale 8 string with something longer than 27" on the low end and buy it for just over 1k is a testament to the times


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## NoodleFace (Jul 27, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You have issues affording 5 k?


Not all of us are dumb enough to spend $5k on a guitar, although clearly several people on SSO are.


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## narad (Jul 27, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> Not all of us are dumb enough to spend $5k on a guitar, although clearly several people on SSO are.



Have fun with your ample 401k, nerd.


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## odibrom (Jul 27, 2022)

xzacx said:


> Look at that pathetic pole piece alignment:



... you know what perspective is, right?... But in the light of this thread, I dig your post, thumbs up!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 27, 2022)

The fuck did I just read?


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## High Plains Drifter (Jul 27, 2022)

Man, I would love to have these kinds of problems. SO glad I'm a lackluster guitarist without money to burn. I'd hate to actually have this kind of thing to deal with on top of covid, mortgage payments, spending time with my wife, enjoying other hobbies, etc. Not a dig on anyone, but sincerely bewildered how people spend so much money, time, stress, etc waiting months or years on a $5000 guitar that might suck ass. Can't wait to play my $750 SE later... such a good time and such a wonderful guitar. Anyway... enjoy the rush or whatever. I'm out.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 27, 2022)

This thread is utterly phenomenal and every single one of you played your roles _exactly_ like I hoped. There was emotional intrigue, gripping character arcs, sudden but not unexpected betrayals and all sorts of narrative twists and turns. I couldn't be more proud of you all. Thread of the Year, at least until DP posts again.

These sort of natural occurrences of befuddling logic are so rare - like a movie so beyond terrible it's impossible not to enjoy it on some level. You can't fake the sincerity involved with _fundamentally_ _believing_ what you're doing is right and achieve the same sort of genuine hilarity.

I formally propose a motion to enshrine this thread/absolute muppet in the SSO Hall of Fame™.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 27, 2022)

High Plains Drifter said:


> Man, I would love to have these kinds of problems. SO glad I'm a lackluster guitarist without money to burn. I'd hate to actually have this kind of thing to deal with on top of covid, mortgage payments, spending time with my wife, enjoying other hobbies, etc. Not a dig on anyone, but sincerely bewildered how people spend so much money, time, stress, etc waiting months or years on a $5000 guitar that might suck ass. Can't wait to play my $750 SE later... such a good time and such a wonderful guitar. Anyway... enjoy the rush or whatever. I'm out.


There is always a certain quality money can buy you, after that there is not much to gain. In general I would rate guitars in the 3 to 5 k range as "as good as it technically gets".
Also, just to make this clear: a Suhr is a definite step up in quality from e.g. a 2 k Prestige (owned an RG4570 before, was a good guitar but heavy, and cheaper non-Prestige before). But of course, even a 200 $ guitar produces sound. Matter of choice in the end.


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 27, 2022)

High Plains Drifter said:


> Man, I would love to have these kinds of problems. SO glad I'm a lackluster guitarist without money to burn. I'd hate to actually have this kind of thing to deal with on top of covid, mortgage payments, spending time with my wife, enjoying other hobbies, etc. Not a dig on anyone, but sincerely bewildered how people spend so much money, time, stress, etc waiting months or years on a $5000 guitar that might suck ass. Can't wait to play my $750 SE later... such a good time and such a wonderful guitar. Anyway... enjoy the rush or whatever. I'm out.


i have to say my Korean PRS SE Custom Seven string is probably one the the best fit and finish guitars i have, and that is out of some that are US made 3K instruments, before the insane price increases. sometimes is embarrassing when a $750 guitar is nicer than one 4 times its cost. And in the end, the instrument does not make the player. his skill and musicianship does. i have to keep telling myself that because i get GAS bad


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## VigilSerus (Jul 27, 2022)

What a wonderful thread to read after not hopping on SSO for a good long while. Really brings back fond memories. Definitely one for the ages.


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## Giest (Jul 27, 2022)

I think we have all learned valuable lessons from this. Don't buy a guitar from Puma or Rusti, but especially not a Rusti from Puma.


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 27, 2022)

Giest said:


> I think we have all learned valuable lessons from this. Don't buy a guitar from Puma or Rusti, but especially not a Rusti from Puma.


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## jaxadam (Jul 27, 2022)

NoodleFace said:


> Not all of us are dumb enough to spend $5k on a guitar, although clearly several people on SSO are.



Anyone who would spend 5k on a guitar is a f*%#!$g idiot.


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## Fretless (Jul 27, 2022)

This thread has made me want to play a guitar again. On the other hand, I'll probably get home and just decide to keep playing synths. That being said, Rusti Guitars sure are pretty, and if I were into buying more guitars, I'd want one.


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## Wucan (Jul 27, 2022)

I'm catching up on Better Call Saul but this is better drama


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 27, 2022)




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## DirtyPuma (Jul 28, 2022)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> View attachment 111531


Rusti is adamant that the guitar was / is fine, up to this day.  He also sold it (with the fucked up trem routing) to another customer. Interesting how nobody is interested in that fact. In my case: I just wanted to get rid of the guitar, and it seems at least some people DO think that the guitar is "nice and that is just how custom guitars are". Rusti told me that I shall tell customers that the guitar is fine. I asked him this specific question.


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## bostjan (Jul 28, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Rusti is adamant that the guitar was / is fine, up to this day.  He also sold it (with the fucked up trem routing) to another customer. Interesting how nobody is interested in that fact. In my case: I just wanted to get rid of the guitar, and it seems at least some people DO think that the guitar is "nice and that is just how custom guitars are". Rusti told me that I shall tell customers that the guitar is fine. I asked him this specific question.


That's the same logic as giving someone an STI and then justifying it by telling everyone your ex, who gave you the STI, said it was no big deal.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 28, 2022)

bostjan said:


> That's the same logic as giving someone an STI and then justifying it by telling everyone your ex, who gave you the STI, said it was no big deal.


So, you're saying then openly that Rusti Guitars are crap?


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## nickgray (Jul 28, 2022)




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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 28, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> To correct you: I was able to have the guitar checked by the customer and then sold to that customer. So nothing went wrong. Good outcome from that side. Still feel bad for the guy because he obviously does not seem to care for quality. You are right in that somehow he is now living with that faulty guitar… But would burning it help anyone?
> 
> Addition: Guitar was at Rusti's workshop and I guess who could tell more about this guitar than the builder himself when selling it?



I like how Puma handwaves all responsibility for the reselling of the guitar after sending it back. 

Yet he mentions pages ago that it was a collaborative process where he was also in communication with the final owner of the Lotus?

Did you clearly describe all of the faults to the final owner like you did in the first few posts of this thread? I'm guessing not, since you wanted to make a sale and get your money out of it.

Feel free to show us you disclosing the issues and making sure they were satisfied with the instrument before buying it


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## mastapimp (Jul 28, 2022)

nickgray said:


> View attachment 111541


Yes, that CrustyCougar's original attempt to sell it.


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## nickgray (Jul 28, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Yes, that CrustyCougar's original attempt to sell it.



I mean, it bloody says Wolle's Gear Bazaar, Freiburg, Germany. Not Rusti's Gear Bazzario, Lombardy, Italy. I really tried to give the dude the benefit of the doubt, but for all I know he went berserk after so many "undesired lack of color" and shimmed the fucking trem sideways. With how the thread's going, it seems perfectly reasonable


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 28, 2022)

nickgray said:


> I mean, it bloody says Wolle's Gear Bazaar, Freiburg, Germany. Not Rusti's Gear Bazzario, Lombardy, Italy. I really tried to give the dude the benefit of the doubt, but for all I know he went berserk after so many "undesired lack of color" and shimmed the fucking trem sideways. With how the thread's going, it seems perfectly reasonable


Ah, BTW, this is the guitar with a set of BKP Ragnaroks. The Ragnaroks are not the cheap kind of pickups, so actually this offer was even better than the one provided by Rusti Guitars. Guitar was mint, not played much, only some months old. Had two setups and selector switch exchanged / pups swapped. And Rusti was still flagging all the issues as "taste". At that point I was not yet fully aware of the trem issues (incorrect route, i.e. not full range). This happened afterwards and that also was when I pushed him to take that thing back. So the Reverb sale was still kind of legacy stuff, the sale at Rusti Guitars was after the full fallout with regards to design issues / definite proof of sound issues and so on.


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## BlackMastodon (Jul 28, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> So, you're saying then openly that Rusti Guitars are crap?


Well this is fun. 









Ways Manipulative Narcissists Silence You: Part II


Abusive narcissists distort the reality of their victims in order to avoid taking responsibility for their actions




www.domesticshelters.org


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## jaxadam (Jul 28, 2022)

nickgray said:


> I mean, it bloody says Wolle's Gear Bazaar, Freiburg, Germany. Not Rusti's Gear Bazzario, Lombardy, Italy. I really tried to give the dude the benefit of the doubt, but for all I know he went berserk after so many "undesired lack of color" and shimmed the fucking trem sideways. With how the thread's going, it seems perfectly reasonable



Yeah, but that's Freiburg, Germany which is IN ITALY BRO.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 28, 2022)

Ignore all the faults bro! It's a good deal, here's the latest and greatest djent pickup for FREE!


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## mbardu (Jul 28, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Yeah, but that's Freiburg, Germany which is IN ITALY BRO.



Germany...italy....such silly concepts anyway...


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## jaxadam (Jul 28, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Germany...italy....such silly concepts anyway...
> 
> 
> View attachment 111550


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 28, 2022)

It's wild how much heavy lifting Rusti saying that the initial issues with setup being a "taste" thing is doing for him. 

All to justify an attempt to sell without describing any of the issues he passionately rants about for pages after it's been sold. You're an Olympian at this rate, Puma.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Jul 28, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Rusti is adamant that the guitar was / is fine, up to this day.  He also sold it (with the fucked up trem routing) to another customer. Interesting how nobody is interested in that fact. In my case: I just wanted to get rid of the guitar, and it seems at least some people DO think that the guitar is "nice and that is just how custom guitars are". Rusti told me that I shall tell customers that the guitar is fine. I asked him this specific question.



im just having a bit of fun with the memes...

i understand you being upset about the trem issue and the sound...i would not be happy about it either. i think most here would agree.

i think you lost many with the for sale ad. i understand rusti told you everything was ok, but not mentioning what you thought were faults made it seem disingenuous for others here.

saying everything rusti built because you were unsatisfied with your guitar was not right either. especially in light of all the happy customers he has. the builds ive seen look very nice too.


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## Halffarmer (Jul 29, 2022)

Without wanting to defend anyone and especially disliking being dishonest about problems on used gear:
How can you guys mock the OP for pages that he is unreasonable with his perception of quality on this instrument and that it is fine, side with the builder without playing or seeing the guitar, and then tell the OP how wrong he is, trying to sell an instrument that you just deemed perfectly fine?

All these threads here about custom builds gone wrong just show me, that I'll better stick to production guitars and customize them myself with parts/pickups that I want. Way cheaper, way easier to resell, way less problematic overall.


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## xzacx (Jul 29, 2022)

Halffarmer said:


> Without wanting to defend anyone and especially disliking being dishonest about problems on used gear:
> How can you guys mock the OP for pages that he is unreasonable with his perception of quality on this instrument and that it is fine, side with the builder without playing or seeing the guitar, and *then tell the OP how wrong he is, trying to sell an instrument that you just deemed perfectly fine?*


This logic is incredibly flawed. Ignoring the many missed points here and the fact that most people acknowledged SOME issues, the people “saying it was fine” weren’t the ones selling it. The guy saying it had all the problems was the one that was selling it, and he didn’t mention them in his ad. This means he was either full of shit about there being problems, or full of shit about it being mint with no issues disclosed.


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## prlgmnr (Jul 29, 2022)

Halffarmer said:


> Without wanting to defend anyone and especially disliking being dishonest about problems on used gear:
> How can you guys mock the OP for pages that he is unreasonable with his perception of quality on this instrument and that it is fine, side with the builder without playing or seeing the guitar, and then tell the OP how wrong he is, trying to sell an instrument that you just deemed perfectly fine?
> 
> All these threads here about custom builds gone wrong just show me, that I'll better stick to production guitars and customize them myself with parts/pickups that I want. Way cheaper, way easier to resell, way less problematic overall.


All of this stuff reflects on him because he actually did it, we're just chatting shit as disinterested observers.


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## profwoot (Jul 29, 2022)

Halffarmer said:


> Without wanting to defend anyone and especially disliking being dishonest about problems on used gear:
> How can you guys mock the OP for pages that he is unreasonable with his perception of quality on this instrument and that it is fine, side with the builder without playing or seeing the guitar, and then tell the OP how wrong he is, trying to sell an instrument that you just deemed perfectly fine?
> 
> All these threads here about custom builds gone wrong just show me, that I'll better stick to production guitars and customize them myself with parts/pickups that I want. Way cheaper, way easier to resell, way less problematic overall.


As with most any discussion on the internet, it's not about whether he's right or wrong, it's about his being an unreasonable asshole flailing around desperately trying to win an argument that everyone else stopped having dozens of pages ago, and becoming ever more unhinged with the insults and recriminations.


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 29, 2022)

Halffarmer said:


> Without wanting to defend anyone and especially disliking being dishonest about problems on used gear:
> How can you guys mock the OP for pages that he is unreasonable with his perception of quality on this instrument and that it is fine, side with the builder without playing or seeing the guitar, and then tell the OP how wrong he is, trying to sell an instrument that you just deemed perfectly fine?
> 
> All these threads here about custom builds gone wrong just show me, that I'll better stick to production guitars and customize them myself with parts/pickups that I want. Way cheaper, way easier to resell, way less problematic overall.



I think your description of how the thread unfolded is completely inaccurate.

There's multiple revolving issues:

OP Receiving a guitar with issues and flaws, OP's weirdly combative attitude, OP being dishonest in his attempt to sell the guitar to someone else, and now his story wildly changing every other post.

No one sided with Rusti on the initial receipt of the guitar, but some now do because the claims of not offering warranty repair were false. To the public, OP's belligerent attitude and snake like behavior with the listing and justification for how he listed it turned the negativity towards him.

Also hiding behind "have you played the guitar" is such a meme way to handwave criticisms, you don't have to play a guitar to validate objective observations that the OP laid out with a microscope in the first page.

That's the issue, the instrument was *NOT *fine. OP complained since he received the guitar about paint issues, trem alignment, fretwork, electronics issues, and parts failure since he got the guitar. He was not ignorant to its issues, it doesn't matter if Rusti said the guitar was "perfect" (Which was never proven), those kind of justifications only make him look infinitely worse since HE decided to sell the guitar as "mint".


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## narad (Jul 29, 2022)

Whether the babysitter is a pedophile is irrelevant. It's whether _you thought they were a pedophile when you hired them _that potentially makes you a bad person.


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## NoodleFace (Jul 29, 2022)

Halffarmer said:


> Without wanting to defend anyone and especially disliking being dishonest about problems on used gear:
> How can you guys mock the OP for pages that he is unreasonable with his perception of quality on this instrument and that it is fine, side with the builder without playing or seeing the guitar, and then tell the OP how wrong he is, trying to sell an instrument that you just deemed perfectly fine?
> 
> All these threads here about custom builds gone wrong just show me, that I'll better stick to production guitars and customize them myself with parts/pickups that I want. Way cheaper, way easier to resell, way less problematic overall.


its an integrity issue to me. If I had an instrument I thought was flawed in so many ways, even with other people telling me it wasn't, I'd still disclose what I thought was wrong when selling it.

If the guy can afford to buy $5k guitars like they're nothing, then he can afford taking a hit on something he deemed so shitty.


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## Halffarmer (Jul 29, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> That's the issue, the instrument was *NOT *fine.


After 30 pages of BS and so many "I want a rusty now"-posts it didn't seem that people thought this way, because the instrument is obviously flawed (and people shouldn't kid themselves, e.g. no furniture maker would get away with that much pitting in the inlay work and these finish problems asking full price. If you tell your customers, that it can't be perfect because it's handmade, you won't have anymore customers rather soon).

But as I said, I don't want to defend anyone, selling broken stuff and without describing the problems is beyond shady, and the "interesting" personality of the OP is obvious.


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## VigilSerus (Jul 29, 2022)

Halffarmer said:


> If you tell your customers, that it can't be perfect because it's handmade, you won't have anymore customers rather soon).



Yeah I’d probably still want a Rusti (if I ever had the absolute insane disposable income), considering this is genuinely the first time I’ve ever heard any egregious issues, which seems to have already been rectified, model wise (not my cup of tea anyway). Those inlay/finish points are so insignificant, I’d be incredibly hard pressed to call them issues, even at that price, which the inlay work in-and-of-itself is already extraordinary.

And yes, that is exactly what handmade can entail, even with CNC assistance (I’d like to stress that assistance part). I don’t understand why people think handmade is inherently more “perfect” than a large production factory spec that’s been locked down and replicated ad nauseum, especially with decent QC. You’re buying boutique one-offs. Ignoring the fact that Rusti’s output has been typically nothing short of stellar.


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## nickgray (Jul 29, 2022)

Halffarmer said:


> How can you guys mock the OP for pages that he is unreasonable with his perception of quality on this instrument and that it is fine, side with the builder without playing or seeing the guitar, and then tell the OP how wrong he is, trying to sell an instrument that you just deemed perfectly fine?



Pretty sure most people agreed that the guitar has issues to one extent or another.

The far more important point is that OP believed it has issues, and then told fuck all when it came time to sell the guitar.



Halffarmer said:


> All these threads here about custom builds gone wrong just show me, that I'll better stick to production guitars and customize them myself with parts/pickups that I want. Way cheaper, way easier to resell, way less problematic overall.



Of course. There's zero sense in buying a riced out custom, it's a completely frivolous purchase. I can understand wanting a custom for specific specs for ergonomic reasons (just technical reasons in general, not because of aesthetics and certainly not rice), but that's just what makes it extra funny - OP had randomly bought a stereotypical "modern" custom for god knows what reasons (I bet you it's not for playing Iron Maiden covers).


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## AboutBlank (Jul 29, 2022)

Halffarmer said:


> (and people shouldn't kid themselves, e.g. no furniture maker would get away with that much pitting in the inlay work and these finish problems asking full price. If you tell your customers, that it can't be perfect because it's handmade, you won't have anymore customers rather soon).


Ever looked at a Persian carpet under the microscope?
This whole "industry" has not only been very successful for a short time...


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## prlgmnr (Jul 29, 2022)

AboutBlank said:


> Ever looked at a Persian carpet under the microscope?


This _may_ surprise you, but no, I haven't.


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## axxessdenied (Jul 29, 2022)

Holy shit, eh


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 29, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Pretty sure most people agreed that the guitar has issues to one extent or another.
> 
> The far more important point is that OP believed it has issues, and then told fuck all when it came time to sell the guitar.
> 
> ...


Actually, I was only looking for a decent headless with a trem, since they are in general lighter and smaller than normal guitars. Iron Maiden stuff is cool and something I would definitely play with that thing. When having a lot to spend then why not have something which not only has the technical specs down for playing but also looks special.

Up to this day Rusti Guitars uses pics of that guitar as profile pic. That says much about how representative of his quality that guitar is actually is. In the end I was mainly unhappy with the technical specs not being OK, not the cosmetics. There were integral issues in how the guitar was realized on Rusti's part.

In case any buyer would not have been OK with something he bought from me I would try my best to find a compromise. Different from what Rusti Guitars did. He could not even afford to discount the guitar, while I sold the same thing, with additional pups, fixed switch at much lowet price. In case the potential customer objected the guitar, which was actually mint (= nearly same condition as "new"), I would have no problem to further discount.

Furthermore, this whole post was just to show people what quality one can expect from Rusti Guitars. There are not many honest / detailed reviews online. I was quite surprised to see so many issues on that guitar when all he is showing in his marketing stuff are flashy tops / binding and semi hemispherical frets.

Of course, I have to make this thread into an opera / comedy, otherwise not many would have noticed it. That's what you got to do in order to make people notice something. Now, we have a 30 page thread with my review on the first page, how could this get more attention? It played out well. No interest in collecting 7 k posts on a forum. Was here for that one review thread. 🫡


----------



## VigilSerus (Jul 29, 2022)

I think it was made abundantly clear within 3 or-so pages that this thread was made for attention. No need to spell it out


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Jul 29, 2022)




----------



## Giest (Jul 29, 2022)

FWIW the fretboard pitting I have actually seen before on other guitars where the inlays were CNC'd by a orangutang or the fretboard had grains/knots lift up leaving a crevice, and then they filled the space with CA glue doped up with coloring or sawdust. The hole/pitting that results though in this example is the consequence of a bubble in the filler that rose to the surface because the application was rushed or not done correctly. It's a bandaid for bad work, and then done badly. Or it's some typical mentioned imperfection that wasn't taken care of at all, hard to tell from the pics, but either way not good.

I think it's a tie between what is more atrocious, the workmanship on the guitar or how the buyer handled it. Been a hilarious thread by the end of it, though.


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 29, 2022)

the horse is dead. but by all means, keep kicking it. it may yet yield a nugget.


----------



## prlgmnr (Jul 29, 2022)

Giest said:


> I think it's a tie between what is more atrocious, the workmanship on the guitar or how the buyer handled it. Been a hilarious thread by the end of it, though.


If we're keeping score it does look like Rusti made some changes to design/processes in response to the situation while the OP is....still the OP.


----------



## Giest (Jul 29, 2022)

Yea, Rusti made some line changes, after saying the guitar was fine lol. As far as the OP being a doofus that's been mentioned well enough and I don't think it's really a cursory matter to drive it home further. The perspective we all have is full frontal OP now, I just think it's worth noting that in the background there's a 5k$ arboreal shit someone took that started it all.

They've both contradicted themselves so many times, which is why I said before it's like watching two lunatics carry on a conversation and some-crazy-how manage to keep it together for more than thirty seconds without cancelling each other out.


----------



## Cloudy (Jul 29, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Nope, but I ordered another build from him via a friend. Will be funny to see how it looks this time! Acc. to messages it is soon getting finished.


Yikes, been loosely following along this train wreck of a thread the last couple days but this is just a full blown psycho move. Don't be surprised if you (and potential the friend you roped into that decision) get black listed by a bunch of luthiers after this.


----------



## leftyguitarjoe (Jul 29, 2022)

I'm coming out of retirement just so I can say I was here. This is beautiful.


----------



## jahosy (Jul 29, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Nope, but I ordered another build from him via a friend.


Why, after the unsatisfactory review? I wasn't happy with a minor finish defect on my brand new Skervesen, sold it after a month and cancelled my second order that they had just started.

And to think that i was rooting for OP  

* before anyone jumps in; i DID mention about the finish flaw in my EBay listing.... phew


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 30, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I think your description of how the thread unfolded is completely inaccurate.
> 
> There's multiple revolving issues:
> 
> ...


 He did not offer to correct any issues. There were no issues acc. to Rusti Guitars. Just read.


----------



## StevenC (Jul 30, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> He did not offer to correct any issues. There were no issues acc. to Rusti Guitars. Just read.


Yeah, but when _*you *_listed the guitar for sale _*you *_described the guitar as mint not "mint according to Rusti".

So _*you *_were mislabeling a product *you *say is faulty as mint.

*You *didn't mention Rusti's opinion once when _*you *_were selling it. Because *you *cared about getting *your *money and not whether* you were scamming people.*


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 30, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Yeah, but when _*you *_listed the guitar for sale _*you *_described the guitar as mint not "mint according to Rusti".
> 
> So _*you *_were mislabeling a product *you *say is faulty as mint.
> 
> *You *didn't mention Rusti's opinion once when _*you *_were selling it. Because *you *cared about getting *your *money and not whether* you were scamming people.*


Man, get it straight. The guitar was mint. This has nothing to do with the fact that a Rusti Guitar sucks per design. The guitar was nearly the same condition as when I got it (= new). In case any "theoretic" customer asked in more detail or wanted to get a discount / whatever I would be compliant. I sold that guitar at nearly half price when adding the value of the BKP ragnaroks (also mint). Furthermore, I would have had no problem with people just coming over and testing the guitar back then.

Just check Wikipedia in case you're not capable of understanding the term "mint":

*[...] Mint condition* is an expression used to denote the quality of a pre-owned good as displaying virtually no imperfections and being in pristine condition relative to its original production state. [...]


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## jaxadam (Jul 30, 2022)

34 pages later and now the guitar is mint.


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 30, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> 34 pages later and now the guitar is mint.


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 30, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> 34 pages later and now the guitar is mint.


Mint means the guitar is in the same condition as it was after production. This term is applied to rate used goods.

A totally different thing is that a guitar that comes out of production from Rusti Guitars sucks as PER DESIGN. The guitar had many issues which were infringing on the service contract between me and Rusti Guitars. The guitar was not what it was supposed to be. Check page 1 for this.

A resale of a guitar is another thing. Acc. to Rusti Guitars I was told that this is how the guitar is supposed to be. It is not what I ordered to have. But it is a good guitar acc. to the maker. They did not see any quality failure here.

Furthermore, there was still the majority of warranty time available. That is also why I did not want to touch anything which would void warranty and tried so many times to have Rusti Guitars acknowledge these issues (setup / string change / pup change do not void warranty, especially not when issues are clearly attributable to production). He only told me: "Well, YOU don't LIKE the guitar? Then sell it, there is nothing wrong which has to be fixed by me."


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## jaxadam (Jul 30, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Mint means the guitar is in the same condition as it was after production. This term is applied to rate used goods.
> 
> A totally different thing is that a guitar that comes out of production from Rusti Guitars sucks as PER DESIGN.



But that's not what it means. If there are flaws in the guitar during production, it is not mint; it has flaws period.

But I'm not the least bit surprised that you would change the definition of mint to suit your needs.


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 30, 2022)




----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 30, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> But that's not what it means. If there are flaws in the guitar during production, it is not mint; it has flaws period.
> 
> But I'm not the least bit surprised that you would change the definition of mint to suit your needs.


Haha, I even posted the Wikipedia quote and you're still not understanding the term "mint". I guess, all hope is lost for your case.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 30, 2022)

StevenC said:


> Yeah, but when _*you *_listed the guitar for sale _*you *_described the guitar as mint not "mint according to Rusti".
> 
> So _*you *_were mislabeling a product *you *say is faulty as mint.
> 
> *You *didn't mention Rusti's opinion once when _*you *_were selling it. Because *you *cared about getting *your *money and not whether* you were scamming people.*


For sure, I was SCAMMING people when selling the guitar at more or less 60 % of the costs. The guitar was 5 000 € value, the BKPs were roughly 400 € value, makes a total of 5 400 € of goods. These were in nearly the same condition as when I received them. No relevant scratches / marks / nothing.

I sell them for 3 500 €. Scam to make money, I understand.


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## jaxadam (Jul 30, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Haha, I even posted the Wikipedia quote and you're still not understanding the term "mint". I guess, all hope is lost for your case.



Haha, you did post the wikipedia quote, and it says "...as displaying virtually no imperfections" as per your "wikipedia definition. It's a bummer I don't understand the term mint, to quote the infamous Slipknot, all hope is gone.

No problem buddy, if something shows up riddled with flaws and imperfections, but that's how I got it, it's mint, right?


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 30, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Haha, you did post the wikipedia quote, and it says "...as displaying virtually no imperfections" as per your "wikipedia definition. It's a bummer I don't understand the term mint, to quote the infamous Slipknot, all hope is gone.
> 
> No problem buddy, if something shows up riddled with flaws and imperfections, but that's how I got it, it's mint, right?


Oh my god… nothing to add to this.

The quote says as displaying […] virtually no imperfections […] relative to its original production state.

Since you are not capable of understanding such a basic statement:

The guitar is in a certain state after production. => State 0; This is the state the Rusti Guitars was in when I received it. It was a piece of crap as per page 1 of this thread in my opinion.

I sell the guitar after having had if for some months. => State 1; This is the state after I "played" it for a short time. The guitar was not modified in any relevant way. Setup was done professionally, a selector was swapped (due to malfunction), pickups were changed. That is more or less all. There were no relevant blemished due to use. Functionality was not impaired in any way.

Mint describes now the difference between state 0 and state 1. You hopefully understand now, that the difference between these two states has to be minimal for something to be mint. Since the issues on that Rusti were "during production" this has no impact on rating of used goods.


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## nickgray (Jul 30, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Mint means the guitar is in the same condition as it was after production



Lol, Puma, you want to have your cake and eat it too. Wanting to weasel out of responsibility is understandable, as is buyer's remorse. Selling cheaper factory instruments and not mentioning flaws is understandable as well, to a certain extent.

But you barge in, post nitpicking pics of tiniest details, go nuts about how the guitar is bad and Rusti is a jackass, and then casually mention that you sold it as mint, and it's a-okay. Bad Puma.


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 30, 2022)

i need more popcorn. be right back


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## DirtyPuma (Jul 30, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Lol, Puma, you want to have your cake and eat it too. Wanting to weasel out of responsibility is understandable, as is buyer's remorse. Selling cheaper factory instruments and not mentioning flaws is understandable as well, to a certain extent.
> 
> But you barge in, post nitpicking pics of tiniest details, go nuts about how the guitar is bad and Rusti is a jackass, and then casually mention that you sold it as mint, and it's a-okay. Bad Puma.


You also don't get the meaning of mint? Also, this review was not about cosmetic details. I only covered them here because they are interesting for anyone thinking about getting a Rusti Guitars, a company whose main advertisement is about how GOOD the guitars LOOK. 

Reason I hated the guitar is that it was bad design, bad functionality.


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## jaxadam (Jul 30, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> You also don't get the meaning of mint? Also, this review was not about cosmetic details. I only covered them here because they are interesting for anyone thinking about getting a Rusti Guitars, a company whose main advertisement is about how GOOD the guitars LOOK.
> 
> Reason I hated the guitar is that it was bad design, bad functionality.



THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE WRONG! MINT MEANS IT'S GREEN!


----------



## nickgray (Jul 30, 2022)

Speaking of mint


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 30, 2022)

i need to stop email notifications everytime there is a post in this thread. my inbox is clogged. how to do that for only one thread?


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## Slaeyer (Jul 30, 2022)

Can we just settle on Puma being a troll?
First stating the guitar is flawed, then it's mint. Saying all Rusti guitars are a flawed complaining about him being incompetent and then silently ordering another build via a friend?

I'm a real nitpicker myself, but sorry that's really just


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 30, 2022)

Let's just put this mint thing to bed once and for all.

This is exactly how it arrived, and I can assure you, it's mint.







He said he's working on a new flavor called the "Dirty Puma". It will be a peanut butter base loaded with horseshit.


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## nickgray (Jul 30, 2022)

Slaeyer said:


> First stating the guitar is flawed, then it's mint



No no, you don't get it. Rusti made the guitar. Puma found flaws. Puma's tech even fixed some flaws. But overall the guitar is mint because it was how Rusti made it. Minus the tech work, but let's be honest, it only improved things, so in reality it's actually better than mint.



Slaeyer said:


> Saying all Rusti guitars are a flawed complaining about him being incompetent and then silently ordering another build via a friend?



Oh come on, you don't make assumptions based on just one guitar. Rusti will make a Puma #2, Puma #3, Puma #4, ... I think at around Puma #30, Puma will finally be satisified that Rusti is so incompetent, it's just not worth to order a custom built guitar from him.


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## dr_game0ver (Jul 30, 2022)

That's the définition of "Gets better with age". Give it a year and the guitar will start producing green free energy.


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## Giest (Jul 30, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Mint means the guitar is in the same condition as it was after production.



I actually agree with this definition. 

What I don't agree with is you saying the guitar was _mint_ even after you altered and/or repaired it on your own accord, which was part of the issue some took in wondering if the guitar was still applicable to warranty.


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## narad (Jul 30, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> Let's just put this mint thing to bed once and for all.
> 
> This is exactly how it arrived, and I can assure you, it's mint.
> 
> ...


_mint_ moosetracks? Fuck, I'm in the wrong country


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## xzacx (Jul 30, 2022)

Even if we were to all agree on OP’s rating of mint, he still didn’t disclose the “mint flaws,” and thus still didn’t give potential buyers all the info they needed—regardless of price.


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## jaxadam (Jul 30, 2022)

narad said:


> _mint_ moosetracks? Fuck, I'm in the wrong country



That’s right bro, this ain’t like-new, as-is, or used moose tracks!


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## Jonathan20022 (Jul 30, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> He did not offer to correct any issues. There were no issues acc. to Rusti Guitars. Just read.



Jesus Christ dude, can you just quit lying?

Page 3 if anyone's curious where this was pulled from, being offered and told multiple times to ship it back to have ALL issues corrected.




Forums are actually the perfect format for misinformation, you can just straight up change your story pages later thinking that no one will want to take the effort to fact check the bullshit.


----------



## DirtyPuma (Jul 31, 2022)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Jesus Christ dude, can you just quit lying?
> 
> Page 3 if anyone's curious where this was pulled from, being offered and told multiple times to ship it back to have ALL issues corrected.
> 
> ...


This was after legal pressure. Check the dates...

Furthermore: the flaws on that guitar with regards to trem were so integral I had high doubts that Rusti would ever fix them when saying "it only needs a good setup". Back at that time it was also not clear what caused the sound issues, since I actually had a tech check it. He missed the pot issues acc to Rusti.

But then again: Rusti has never proven that it was indeed only the pot and all was good then woth regards to sound... there is also no evidence that he rerouted the trem cavity in a way which makes it fully functional. He was the one who sold it in whatever condition. I never saw that guitar again (and would not even want to).


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## BusinessMan (Jul 31, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Ackchyually, auditory processing in animals is an interesting field too!
> Funny enough, I did do a project for my master's thesis in a domain that was probably not too far from your link above (although more into separation for automated music transcription specifically).
> Don't dox yourself though.


*laments in engineering degree*


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 31, 2022)

On topic with the thread, you should've just sent it back and told him to fix it as soon as you received it. If I have an issue with anything new, I don't tamper with it. Take it right back to the source. 

Only about a third through this treat of a thread, will be back with more popcorn.


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## budda (Jul 31, 2022)

This is 35 pages. The last few are something. 

Play authentic.


----------



## Ross82 (Jul 31, 2022)

budda said:


> This is 35 pages. The last few are something.
> 
> **Play authentic.**



And this is the most controversial comment of the whole thing, how DARE you!!


----------



## Velokki (Jul 31, 2022)

Holy shit. I could not resist, so I spent a good few hours reading through this whole farce.

Couple of things;
-I've owned 3 Skervesens. 2 of them great, 1 of them not-so-great. The latter one was one of their first ones. I wouldn't hesitate to order one now.
-Puma seems like an unemployed lawyer. He needs to have his debate/litigation fix somehow. Wasting hours and hours on a forum, complaining without no apparent logic, eating your own words and proving to the world that you're just an opportunistic charlatan. In regards to the Reverb thing, it's unbelievable how low you're willing to go - as long as it's in your monetary interests, it's okay to lie and not tell about issues with the guitar.
-I'm just gonna play guitar now, all right? Please, can we just all play some guitar... put a click track on and practice


----------



## ShredmasterD (Jul 31, 2022)

Velokki said:


> Holy shit. I could not resist, so I spent a good few hours reading through this whole farce.
> 
> Couple of things;
> -I've owned 3 Skervesens. 2 of them great, 1 of them not-so-great. The latter one was one of their first ones. I wouldn't hesitate to order one now.
> ...


my sympathy for his "plight" evaporated very early on


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## ShredmasterD (Jul 31, 2022)

its time to unwatch this farce of a dumpster fire. cheers. click.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Jul 31, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Tell that the builder not even able to space string slots correctly for a guitar nut.
> 
> In case the above build is indeed the XEN then I think this thread was badly needed. All the video tells is that his guitars are seemingly OK and work. And not that this thing had very messy fretwork and messy electronics... I believe I would not have chosen Rusti Guitars if had been given this info, so thanks to the owner for finally disclosing this in public.


Not my build. Please stfu


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## prlgmnr (Jul 31, 2022)

Velokki said:


> -Puma seems like an unemployed lawyer


"This is the not-picking lawyer, and I _never _spend time playing guitar while I could otherwise be scouring them for faults"


----------



## jaxadam (Jul 31, 2022)

Velokki said:


> -Puma seems like an unemployed lawyer.



I seriously doubt it, because anyone who's ever dealt in litigation knows that threatening to "lawyer up" when the contractor is willing to take the necessary steps to remedy a situation will be wasting big money.


----------



## Velokki (Jul 31, 2022)

jaxadam said:


> I seriously doubt it, because anyone who's ever dealt in litigation knows that threatening to "lawyer up" when the contractor is willing to take the necessary steps to remedy a situation will be wasting big money.


Perhaps that's why he's unemployed, he just wasn't all that good


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Jul 31, 2022)

Velokki said:


> Perhaps that's why he's unemployed, he just wasn't all that good



I'm a bartender during the summers, and I learned by way of some work gossip that my coworker is a disbarred attorney. 

Point being, he still has to pay the rent somehow. 

You ever look at somebody who is (or was) an attorney and ask yourself "how fucking hard can law school really be?"


----------



## cip 123 (Jul 31, 2022)

Anyone else really want a Rusti now?


----------



## Velokki (Jul 31, 2022)

cip 123 said:


> Anyone else really want a Rusti now?


Tbh I've adored his work for many years, but hemispherical frets, possibly wrong neck shape, possibly displeasing sonic features and high price make it a sure no-no for me. I just don't know how his guitars feel and sound, too much that can go wrong.

After owning dozens of expensive guitars I know what I like.
Rusti could very well be the perfect guitar for me, but I'd really, really have to try one that's built and ready. Not gonna take a shot in the dark because there is no need 

TBH for the price of a Rusti, I would just order an Aristides + buy an Ibanez Prestige or ESP on top 

But for the person who wants a kick ass custom wooden guitar with a cool top, I would definitely go with Rusti. I mean, those builds look f'in amazing.


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 31, 2022)

narad said:


> If there are issues with a guitar that you are aware of, you disclose them to potential buyers when you sell it. What a terribly dishonest person.


He must be one of THOSE eBay sellers in disguise on reverb 
To try and sell it while not disclosing the issues is a real scumbag move. You know the issues are there. Any buyer of it would probably find the issues eventually and pull the same shit you did.


----------



## BusinessMan (Jul 31, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Again "review" vs. "condition after purchase".


What does this statement even mean? Review condition is the same thing as condition after purchase because that's what people do. They review the condition after purchase as the review.


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## BusinessMan (Jul 31, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> *[...] Mint condition* is an expression used to denote the quality of a pre-owned good as displaying virtually no imperfections and being in pristine condition relative to its original production state. [...]


Per your own definition, in which you provided, mint means, to quote your own definition of the term, " virtually no imperfections and being in pristine condition". You are contradicting yourself by posting this. There were a shitload of imperfections, found by yoi, stated by you, photographed by you, and yet you still tried to pass it off as mint. Which again, quoting the definition you provided, means "virtually no imperfections". You made it clear in your own post that the guitar has more than "virtually no imperfections". "Virtually no imperfections" usually means like a finish bubble, a ding, something minorly cosmetic, not functional. Your item was, according to you again, structurally non-functioning and you failed to disclose that to potential buyers.


----------



## Dayn (Jul 31, 2022)

wheresthefbomb said:


> I'm a bartender during the summers, and I learned by way of some work gossip that my coworker is a disbarred attorney.
> 
> Point being, he still has to pay the rent somehow.
> 
> You ever look at somebody who is (or was) an attorney and ask yourself "how fucking hard can law school really be?"


Cs get degrees.

Now enjoy the fact that it applies to medical professionals too.


----------



## Lord Voldemort (Aug 1, 2022)

Jesus Christ, I'm only on page 25 and it's been like an hour of reading but this has been an interesting study in psychology. 

Both Rusti and OP are wrong, but much more so OP imo at this point. Still, Rusti downright refuses to acknowledge anything that was done wrong on the build, and as of page 25 he only chimes in to adamantly defend his work on said build. It seems clear that the trem was not ideally installed, and that it was probably in part Rusti's fault. A simple 'oops' would be so refreshing, or even a 'hm, maybe it was me but I don't think so'. 

And I think the reason that Rusti won't do that is because OP is legitimately one of the most insufferable people I've ever seen post on the internet outside of Facebook news article comments, and to concede one potential failure would be like rolling the snowball that confirms the avalanche. The avalanche of douche.


----------



## BusinessMan (Aug 1, 2022)

Lord Voldemort said:


> The avalanche of douche.


A douche-a-lanche if you will


----------



## Kovah (Aug 1, 2022)

4Eyes said:


> imagine paying 25k of money for PRS Dragon and then discovering hair thin gaps between inlay pieces under microscope...that would make me seriously pissed off


AckUallY




source: https://reverb.com/fr/item/57645411-prs-private-stock-dragon-35th-anniversary-2020-2020


----------



## 4Eyes (Aug 1, 2022)

there is nothing wrong about it, if you want graphics in 8k retina resolution, put a sticker on there.


----------



## JimF (Aug 1, 2022)

Kovah said:


> AckUallY
> 
> View attachment 111712
> 
> ...



Sidetrack: They're some fugly tuners. Notsomuch the rosewood buttons, but the locking mechanism. Sheesh.


----------



## Lord Voldemort (Aug 1, 2022)

Fell asleep reading this thread lol, woke up and finished it.

OP is a rich person that is completely out of touch with reality. There are probably a lot of wealthy people here considering that like 25% of this thread apparently owns at least one 5k custom guitar, but there's a difference between someone that has some money and still is a humble dude and someone that has money and then becomes a raging narcissist.

Guy has like 20 people surrounding him, telling him that he's wrong in several points. People have written short stories tying to level with the guy and fill any hole of logic that he has, and he just draws a red line around it and complains because it won't fit his narrative, and in his mind he knows he's right. The world will conform to his viewpoint, because that's how it works when you're a rich narcissist.

The trem was bad, fair. The finish was fine, stop whining. He did offer to fix it, stop whining. Posting a thread in a transparent attempt to tarnish a small Luthiers reputation and then selling the guitar as mint is a D bag thing to do.

You lack the ability to see your wrongdoing in any capacity, to the degree even if you're right about some things the other things that you're genuinely wrong about yet won't admit to are so duplicitous that you have absolutely no credibility whatsoever.

You should move to America and run for Senate.


----------



## tian (Aug 1, 2022)

You know you're in a rough spot when you're getting critiques from Lord Voldemort himself...


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## ArtDecade (Aug 1, 2022)

Lord Voldemort said:


> OP is a rich person that is completely out of touch with reality.



Not so sure about that. He sounds more like someone that spent well beyond their means and immediately had buyer's remorse.


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## Lord Voldemort (Aug 1, 2022)

ArtDecade said:


> Not so sure about that. He sounds more like someone that spent well beyond their means and immediately had buyer's remorse.



Yeah, maybe. He's at least tried to paint a picture of himself being wealthy. Saying how expensive the repairs and new pickups were but it that it was no biggie for him, giving someone a hard time because they presumably can't afford to buy a 5k lawyer guitar when he well knows that only like 2% of the world population could potentially do so, bragging about leaving an extra $200 for the Luthier even though he didn't need to, etc. 

To be fair that does sound like the kind of thing that someone living well outside their means would do tbh 

Puma post a screenshot of your savings account so we can settle this


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## jaxadam (Aug 1, 2022)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Puma post a screenshot of your savings account so we can settle this



I have a buddy who is very wealthy. 5 mil house on the beach, 3 mil house on the river, cars, etc. He probably has less in his bank account than most people here. His wife, on the other hand…


----------



## Fred the Shred (Aug 1, 2022)

A guy is on the road, has a small break, wonders how stuff is going in SSO, and bumps into this. This blessed forum will never fail to deliver!


----------



## tian (Aug 1, 2022)

Getting nostalgia from the 2010s with some of the names rolling in.

This thread is truly bending time and space itself.


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## Slaeyer (Aug 1, 2022)

Lord Voldemort said:


> People have written short stories tying to level with the guy




Maybe it's time to try something else... a haiku or something


----------



## Lord Voldemort (Aug 1, 2022)

Slaeyer said:


> Maybe it's time to try something else... a haiku or something


Limericks 

There once was a rich man named Puma, who bought a fancy guitar with bridge tuners 
The trem wasn't great, the dude got irate, yet sold as mint? Ok boomer


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## jaxadam (Aug 1, 2022)

Slaeyer said:


> Maybe it's time to try something else... a haiku or something



*rubs hands together* Give me a few…


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## jaxadam (Aug 1, 2022)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Limericks
> 
> There once was a rich man named Puma, who bought a fancy guitar with bridge tuners
> The trem wasn't great, the dude got irate, yet sold as mint? Ok boomer



Pick anything from the top shelf!


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## prlgmnr (Aug 1, 2022)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Limericks
> 
> There once was a rich man named Puma, who bought a fancy guitar with bridge tuners
> The trem wasn't great, the dude got irate, yet sold as mint? Ok boomer


You are now the official owner of this guitar, congratulations/commiserations (delete as applicable).


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## ArtDecade (Aug 1, 2022)

Can you imagine how much NEG REP @DirtyPuma would have right now? #backintheday


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## Slaeyer (Aug 1, 2022)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Limericks
> 
> There once was a rich man named Puma, who bought a fancy guitar with bridge tuners
> The trem wasn't great, the dude got irate, yet sold as mint? Ok boomer


That's way better than what I was hoping for


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## RadoncROCKs (Aug 1, 2022)

Slow day at work and THIS is where I parked my car


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## DirtyPuma (Aug 1, 2022)

Wow, 37 pages. That is a lot. These kinds of thread are what provides the highest of joys in such forums.

I remember how I was reading reviews of small builders who started to break apart with regards to their declining instrument quality back in the day… big threads, many pages. Having triggered one of these myself, I would have never dreamt of such an achievement. Making so many people so emotional, what higher form of satisfaction could there be for an artist.

I gladly take this trophy and I promise you: In case I were to ever write another of these pieces again, it would be a clear signal for an upcoming doomsday.


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## bostjan (Aug 1, 2022)

There once was a man from Dundee
Whose limmericks would end at line three
I don't know why


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## NickS (Aug 1, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Wow, 37 pages. That is a lot. These kinds of thread are what provides the highest of joys in such forums.
> 
> I remember how I was reading reviews of small builders who started to break apart with regards to their declining instrument quality back in the day… big threads, many pages. Having triggered one of these myself, I would have never dreamt of such an achievement. Making so many people so emotional, what higher form of satisfaction could there be for an artist.
> 
> I gladly take this trophy and I promise you: In case I were to ever write another of these pieces again, it would be a clear signal for an upcoming doomsday.


No.


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## Alberto7 (Aug 1, 2022)

I have typed and deleted so much shit in response to this thread over the last few days. It's downright thrilling. I will be forever sad after it's over. RIP shono.


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## Lord Voldemort (Aug 1, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Wow, 37 pages. That is a lot. These kinds of thread are what provides the highest of joys in such forums.
> 
> I remember how I was reading reviews of small builders who started to break apart with regards to their declining instrument quality back in the day… big threads, many pages. Having triggered one of these myself, I would have never dreamt of such an achievement. Making so many people so emotional, what higher form of satisfaction could there be for an artist.
> 
> I gladly take this trophy and I promise you: In case I were to ever write another of these pieces again, it would be a clear signal for an upcoming doomsday.



If only a Luthier could fix the finishes flaws on your world view, man. Probably wouldn't pay for the shipping though, might want to get a lawyer.


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## CanserDYI (Aug 1, 2022)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Limericks
> 
> There once was a rich man named Puma, who bought a fancy guitar with bridge tuners
> The trem wasn't great, the dude got irate, yet sold as mint? Ok boomer


Someone call the police there has been a murder in here...


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## jahosy (Aug 1, 2022)

DirtyPuma said:


> Wow, 37 pages. That is a lot. These kinds of thread are what provides the highest of joys in such forums.
> 
> I remember how I was reading reviews of small builders who started to break apart with regards to their declining instrument quality back in the day… big threads, many pages. Having triggered one of these myself, I would have never dreamt of such an achievement. Making so many people so emotional, what higher form of satisfaction could there be for an artist.
> 
> I gladly take this trophy and I promise you: In case I were to ever write another of these pieces again, it would be a clear signal for an upcoming doomsday.


Any idea when your second Rusti order will be finished?


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## nickgray (Aug 1, 2022)

Hey, Puma, found you a good measuring tool for your next Rusti


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## Jonathan20022 (Aug 1, 2022)

Alberto7 said:


> I have typed and deleted so much shit in response to this thread over the last few days. It's downright thrilling. I will be forever sad after it's over. RIP shono.



Either the thread gets locked or, OP finally gets a good guitar and has nothing to nitpick anymore 

Does the 3rd build follow the 2nd if #2 isn't perfect either?


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## lost_horizon (Aug 1, 2022)




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## AltecGreen (Aug 1, 2022)

nickgray said:


> Hey, Puma, found you a good measuring tool for your next Rusti
> 
> View attachment 111763


Not accurate enough. I highly recommend a Keyence VR-6000. Super accurate and easy to use.






Versatile Profilometer Eliminates Blind Spots and Measures Glossy Surfaces | 3D Optical Profilometer VR-6000 Series | KEYENCE America


The VR-6000 Series Wide-Area 3D Measurement System makes it easy to measure targets that cannot be measured with conventional non-contact systems. Take advantage of true-to-life cross-sectional shapes with no blind spots by using the new motorized rotation unit to capture data around the entire...




www.keyence.com


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## nickgray (Aug 1, 2022)

If we're being honest, I think Puma would settle with this one quite nicely, plenty of headroom


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## profwoot (Aug 1, 2022)

*sad trombone*


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## ikarus (Aug 2, 2022)

@DirtyPuma can you tell me what is wrong on this one?


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## narad (Aug 2, 2022)

profwoot said:


> View attachment 111768
> 
> *sad trombone*


Better than a Rusti trombone


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## BusinessMan (Aug 2, 2022)

ikarus said:


> @DirtyPuma can you tell me what is wrong on this one?



Not commenting on the guitar but I think it's absolutely hilarious DP's guitar is rusti's profile pic here


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## dr_game0ver (Aug 2, 2022)

Now i want to buy a thing from Puma...


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## bostjan (Aug 2, 2022)

Ugh, look at these horrible shoes! There isn't even any sort of formula used to place the lace holes. So many flaws right out of the box! What a disgrace! I wouldn't put these shoes on my worst enemy!





dr_game0ver said:


> Now i want to buy a thing from Puma...



You're in luck, my friend. I have a pair in perfect condition to sell you (shown above).


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## protest (Aug 2, 2022)

Wow


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## Rusti (Aug 2, 2022)

Couldn't resist.


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## bostjan (Aug 2, 2022)

Rusti said:


> View attachment 111795
> 
> Couldn't resist.


Is there a version of that meme where only one guy in the room goes ballistic and everyone else busts out popcorn?


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## protest (Aug 2, 2022)

I'd like to that DirtyPuma for the new avatar.


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## Fred the Shred (Aug 2, 2022)

The one solution to this debacle is someone proxy ordering a Rusti for me, and I will proceed to do the relevant tests to the instrument.

Wait, you thought I meant live playing or recording? Not at all:


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## ArtDecade (Aug 2, 2022)

We need to start a separate thread for Dirty Puma memes. Maybe @Rusti can have the honor of starting it.


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Aug 2, 2022)

Shit dudes, I'm only halfway this thread and I really think this should've ended on the second page. My god by golly what a shitshow.


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## Lord Voldemort (Aug 2, 2022)

This thread has genuinely gotten me interested in Rusti guitars. 5k is steep for my blood, not that I don't think the price is warranted, but every single one of his guitars look like a holographic pokemon card ffs and I can't stop looking at them


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## prlgmnr (Aug 2, 2022)

Fred the Shred said:


> The one solution to this debacle is someone proxy ordering a Rusti for me, and I will proceed to do the relevant tests to the instrument.
> 
> Wait, you thought I meant live playing or recording? Not at all:
> View attachment 111796


Yep, that's wood.


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## Musiscience (Aug 2, 2022)

You’re hiking and stumble on a Puma, is he:

a) Clean -> proceed to pet 
b) Dirty -> do not build guitar

This could save your life.


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## nickgray (Aug 2, 2022)




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## Jonathan20022 (Aug 2, 2022)

Lord Voldemort said:


> This thread has genuinely gotten me interested in Rusti guitars. 5k is steep for my blood, not that I don't think the price is warranted, but every single one of his guitars look like a holographic pokemon card ffs and I can't stop looking at them



For what it's worth, I really enjoy mine. Last time I spent 5k on a guitar was a 1 of 3 Koa Master Grade Regius 7. And only after about 7 years I recently got into Padalka and those command 4 - 5k used right now.

The Rusti shreds and feels like a tank, the specs on it are basically what I would want so I wouldn't order a Paradox. I'd likely order a Vision or Lotus if I jumped on a new Rusti. I don't think I'd have much trouble convincing myself to dish out the cash if he showed me some insane Koa I'd want to secure for a build.

I bought mine used though so take it for what it's worth, the guy who had it put zero mileage on the Rusti.


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## dr_game0ver (Aug 2, 2022)

Musiscience said:


> You’re hiking and stumble on a Puma, is he:
> 
> a) Clean -> proceed to pet
> b) Dirty -> do not build guitar
> ...


Roll dice: 2. Puma build the guitar himself.


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## DeanGordonGuitars (Aug 5, 2022)

*runs away*


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## BlackMastodon (Aug 5, 2022)

DeanGordonGuitars said:


> *runs away*


I'm sorry, sir, but you'll need to get in the neat and orderly line (Puma checks the line every hour with his calipers) in order to be approved to build a guitar for Mr. Puma, thank you.


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