# Guns



## The Atomic Ass (Mar 16, 2009)

So I went out shooting Sunday with the cousins. 6 people, 15 guns, much lead and brass was dispersed.  No pics as nobody brought a camera. 

But now I've really got a hankering for a .357 mag revolver. Which is weird because I'm really a semi-auto whore by nature. 

So now I'm wanting to put one on my to-get list. But there's a LOT of .357 mag revolvers out there.  I appeal to the gun owners here, what are some GOOD ones?


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## MFB (Mar 17, 2009)

I've always fancied Smith and Wesson for revolvers, and my dad has had several different S&W pistols all of which were fine instruments


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## silentrage (Mar 17, 2009)

Not a gun owner (yet), so take it for what it's worth, but I've always been a fan of the DE .50


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## MFB (Mar 17, 2009)

silentrage said:


> Not a gun owner (yet), so take it for what it's worth, but I've always been a fan of the DE .50



Not only is it totally unnecessary and showing off, but also illegal


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## possumkiller (Mar 17, 2009)

well i assure you it is not illegal. there are many brand new ones in my local gun stores here in colorado springs. also at my hometown gun stores in florida. although it is a bit much guaranteed. i owned the 44 mag version and sold it. its just too damn heavy. like a boat anchor. i will take a 45 1911 or a sig sauer 9mm thank you 


the desert eagle was designed for long range taget shooting. and it used to come with a choice of the standard 6 inch barrel along with a 10 and 14 inch option. my dad owned one of the old mark 7s in 357. basically it was some people tinkering with a way to fire the large and long magnum revolver rounds from a semiauto. as such the grip is most uncomfortable because its very skinny but very very long from front to back so its very hard to wrap your hand around it. not to mention the recoil is excessive.


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## silentrage (Mar 17, 2009)

possumkiller said:


> well i assure you it is not illegal. there are many brand new ones in my local gun stores here in colorado springs. also at my hometown gun stores in florida. although it is a bit much guaranteed. i owned the 44 mag version and sold it. its just too damn heavy. like a boat anchor. i will take a 45 1911 or a sig sauer 9mm thank you
> 
> 
> the desert eagle was designed for long range taget shooting. and it used to come with a choice of the standard 6 inch barrel along with a 10 and 14 inch option. my dad owned one of the old mark 7s in 357. basically it was some people tinkering with a way to fire the large and long magnum revolver rounds from a semiauto. as such the grip is most uncomfortable because its very skinny but very very long from front to back so its very hard to wrap your hand around it. not to mention the recoil is excessive.



I would imagine they're pretty damn clunky to shoot.
You ever try the longer barrel versions? I saw some pics of it with a scope and a long barrel on top and thought, holy hell can you snipe with that thing?!?!


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## Metal Ken (Mar 17, 2009)

MFB said:


> Not only is it totally unnecessary and showing off, but also illegal



Nope. They're not. Neither is S&W .460 or SW500 (.50) 


I'm a big fan of revolvers. I own two, a Taurus 669 (.357 Mag) and a Taurus Model 44 SS4 (.44 Mag). Great shit. .44 is fun as hell to shoot.
If you're looking for something inexpensive and reliable, try a used Taurus revolver. Had no issues whatsoever with either of mine. Try a Taurus Tracker or Model 66.


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## MFB (Mar 17, 2009)

I could've swore that .50 cals were illegal to own? Guess I'm outdated on my gun regulations


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## HamBungler (Mar 17, 2009)

MFB said:


> I could've swore that .50 cals were illegal to own? Guess I'm outdated on my gun regulations



50 cal rifles maybe, but pistols are open game.

I also agree with the S&W and Taurus sentiments, they're a blast to shoot.


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 17, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> I own two, a Taurus 669 (.357 Mag) and a Taurus Model 44 SS4 (.44 Mag). If you're looking for something inexpensive and reliable, try a used Taurus revolver. Had no issues whatsoever with either of mine.



I personally own a .40 Sig Sauer P226 (best handgun ever made in my opinion), a Remington 870 12 ga., and a .357 Mag. Taurus 850 CIA Revolver. I absolutely love my little revolver. Its totally blacked out, has a caliber entirely too powerful for the size of the gun, and a barrel entirely too small for any kind of decent accuracy, and that = A fucking blast to shoot. Just imagine a revolver small enough to fit in your sock, that takes a .357 Mag....Exactly! The Taurus has been nothing but reliable, and will eat literally ANY .357 mag. round you throw in it! I need to get mine powder coated black though, as some of the paint on the grip is starting to fade, and i have a thing for flat black, totally blacked out guns.

Taurus revolvers come highly recommended as extremely reliable moderately priced revolvers! Dont let the prices fool you, they are very well made, and eat pretty much any quality round you throw at them.


And to the original poster, i do the same thing every other weekend, except when we all get together it looks like some kind of gang war is about to start, tons of people, tons of guns/rifles/shotguns, and tons of beer! All makes for a great time. We all meet up at a friends farm, where there are acres upon acres of hilly land where we can just shoot whatever and where ever we want, for as long as we want. We all are at least 23yrs old and older and show respect to the guns, each other, and how the alcohol effects you while shooting, so we've never had ANY problems/injuries in the last 4 years straight of getting together. I highly recommend it to anyone as a great outlet for your weeks aggression. Theres nothing like having a fucking shitty day/week/weeks, then getting together with a shitload of friends and blasting off rounds, shooting random shit, and letting all the bullshit in your life just melt away.

I dig this thread, so if anyone else has some guns, tell us/show us what you got!


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## Metal Ken (Mar 17, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> I personally own a .40 Sig Sauer P226 (best handgun ever made in my opinion), a Remington 870 12 ga., and a .357 Mag. Taurus 850 CIA Revolver. I absolutely love my little revolver. Its totally blacked out, has a caliber entirely too powerful for the size of the gun, and a barrel entirely too small for any kind of decent accuracy, and that = A fucking blast to shoot. Just imagine a revolver small enough to fit in your sock, that takes a .357 Mag....Exactly! The Taurus has been nothing but reliable, and will eat literally ANY .357 mag. round you throw in it! I need to get mine powder coated black though, as some of the paint on the grip is starting to fade, and i have a thing for flat black, totally blacked out guns.
> 
> Taurus revolvers come highly recommended as extremely reliable moderately priced revolvers! Dont let the prices fool you, they are very well made, and eat pretty much any quality round you throw at them.



My roommate has a Sig P229 in .357 Sig, its hella fun to shoot. Great gun, really accurate. Apparently, its the standard issue Secret Service gun, from what i hear (My roommate is into that kind of stuff). 
As far as Taurus goes, my _only_ complaint is the stock grip on my M44. Im gonna change it to a hogue Monogrip ASAP. The Monogrips make the gun fit your hand SO Much better. My M66 has a monogrip and it fits so awesomely. I'd actually suggest a monogrip for your gun, too, if you can find it in that size. They're all black \m/


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## AK DRAGON (Mar 17, 2009)

Depends on where you live to own a .50 BMG

Some its not legal what so ever
Some require a class III license
Some its legal with no restrictions (unless full auto then requires Class III)

as for .357 Mag I would choose either Smith & Wesson or Ruger


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 17, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> My roommate has a Sig P229 in .357 Sig, its hella fun to shoot. Great gun, really accurate. Apparently, its the standard issue Secret Service gun, from what i hear (My roommate is into that kind of stuff).



Yeah, from what i hear the P226 has always been the standard issue, but now some of them are using the P229. The P226 is also the standard issue for the Navy Seals, as well as used by FBI agents, Ohio State Highway Patrol, Michigan State Police, Texas Department Of Public Safety, as well as used by soldiers in live combat all over the world. You cant argue with that kind of proven reliability. You just cant.

Actually, ANY Sig Sauer is a great gun.

And about accuracy...i even had an ex girl of mine (all 115lbs of her) that had never even shot any kind of firearm before, shoot my P226 for the first time from about 6 car lengths away from a beer bottle target. She popped that bottle on the very first shot!! Then proceeded to shoot two more in a row! So yeah, very accurate, even for people that have no clue what they are doing with a firearm.



Metal Ken said:


> As far as Taurus goes, my _only_ complaint is the stock grip on my M44. Im gonna change it to a hogue Monogrip ASAP. The Monogrips make the gun fit your hand SO Much better. My M66 has a monogrip and it fits so awesomely. I'd actually suggest a monogrip for your gun, too, if you can find it in that size. They're all black \m/



Yeah, i might have to check out these grips you speak of. My Taurus' grip sucks and isnt that comfortable. Course, i have big hands and maybe nothing will make this tiny little revolver be totally comfortable for my giant hands, but who knows.


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## possumkiller (Mar 17, 2009)

ok lets see. well when i got divorced i had to sell all my guns because you cant have them in the barracks in the army. i USED to have a remington 870 20 inch barrel with iron sights and 8 shot mag extension. the usual walmart marlin 30-30 from my dad. my sig sp2009 9mm, 2 ww2 era yugo mausers (DAMN good and cheap!), kimber 25th anniversary .45, kimber custom 2 .45, uberti peacemaker .45lc (with cowboy holster rig, and i totally practiced my quick draw with it!), cz550 .458 elephant rifle, weatherby vanguard in .300wby, remington 700cdl in .280rem, sig p226 9mm, sig p232 .380acp, HK USP combat competition .40, USFA 1911 .45, desert eagle .44 and i think thats about it. oh yeah i had an italian over under 12 and a turkish SxS 12 also. but yeah, i LOVE guns. any of my friends can tell you my mind is like a firearms and ammo library. my dream is to own a B Searcy double in .600NE like Roland from The Lost World movie. yummy. around 60 grand though. (yeah and you thought a prs was expensive)

ah and as far as i know the only place where .50 cals are illegal is the great state of california. and its only the .50BMG rifles and machine guns not handguns or smaller .50 cal sporting rifles like a .505 gibbs safari rifle for instance.


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## Metal Ken (Mar 17, 2009)

possumkiller said:


> ah and as far as i know the only place where .50 cals are illegal is the great state of california. and its only the .50BMG rifles and machine guns not handguns or smaller .50 cal sporting rifles like a .505 gibbs safari rifle for instance.


Yeah, the hilarious thing about that, is they seemed to think making .50BMG Sniper Rifles illegal would lower crime, for some reason, even though no one's ever been shot in a crime with a .50 BMG sniper rifle. Go Figure. I guess no one wants to take a 5 foot rifle to a convenience store robbery.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 17, 2009)

I dont actually own a gun, yet, but theres just something about the Magnums that really appeals to me... i think its the length of the barrel, it reminds me of the huge Civil War revolvers i've seen 












Revolvers look so much more fun than semi-auto's as well.


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## Mattmc74 (Mar 17, 2009)

If you want a .357 I would go with a S&W,Taurus, or a Ruger super black eagle.


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## Variant (Mar 17, 2009)

Handguns are the most satisfying to shoot IMO... I went to a big machinegun shoot back in Arizona and found myself having much more fun with a .44 Magnum and an old Browning made 1911, than with all the Thomson's, M-16's, AK-47's, and 8 mm Mauser's.  I guess I liken it to drag racing a ridiculously powerful car to actually driving something like an MX-5 on a real racetrack. While fun, strafing the desert with a M-60 isn't really quite the same amount of fun in the long run as a tactical run with a .40 S&W. 



Metal Ken said:


> Yeah, the hilarious thing about that, is they seemed to think making .50BMG Sniper Rifles illegal would lower crime, for some reason, even though no one's ever been shot in a crime with a .50 BMG sniper rifle. Go Figure. I guess no one wants to take a 5 foot rifle to a convenience store robbery.



 Proof that douchebag Democrats can be just as fucking stupid as inbreed Republicans, when they don't think.*

*Variant adheres to his anti-democracy stance for just such instances of agenda over fact & the application of thought.


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## possumkiller (Mar 17, 2009)

Variant said:


> Proof that douchebag Democrats can be just as fucking stupid as inbreed Republicans, when they don't think.*
> 
> *Variant adheres to his anti-democracy stance for just such instances of agenda over fact & the application of thought.


 
well said, sir


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## Metal Ken (Mar 17, 2009)

Demoniac said:


> I dont actually own a gun, yet, but theres just something about the Magnums that really appeals to me... i think its the length of the barrel, it reminds me of the huge Civil War revolvers i've seen
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The thing that sucks about those guns is the bullets are 2.00$ each


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## Zoltta (Mar 17, 2009)

Lets get something straight people. No citizen in this country needs a Class 3 License to own ANY NFA weapon or automatic weapon. Class 3/Title just states the type of weapon and is only for FFL Dealers who wish to sell Title 3 NFA weapons.

To own a Class 3 weapon, if NFA weapons are legal in your state, You fill out a Form 4 with a 200 dollar tax stamp so the weapon can legally be transfered to you. If you wish to have a SBR aka short barreled rifle/shotgun, you must fill out a Form 1 with a 200 dollar tax stamp and have your receiver engraved stating its a SBR. Its the same shit with a sound suppressor and AOW except AOW is 5 dollar tax stamp.

Also 50 cals dont need any special license unless of course its an MG which you obviously, like stated above need those forms and tax stamps depending on the type of rifle. A general Bolt action or semi auto 50 caliber rifle doesnt need anything special other than a fat wallet

Edit 1: By the way, the 50 cals you hear politicians wanting to ban are 50 Caliber Browning Machine Gun aka 50BMG, not 50AE, not 500SW, not 50 caliber muzzle loaders.
Edit 2: NEVER buy Taurus handguns
Edit 3: Revolvers arent always more fun to shoot than semis, depends on the caliber, shit flies in your face if you arent wearing eye protection and the muzzle blast gives you a fucking headache after a few reloads.

Any more questions?

And since we are on the subject, check out my new build, almost done, just needs a pair of BUIS and get rid of ghetto bipod:


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## possumkiller (Mar 17, 2009)

FINALLY!!!! thank you! i get so sick and tired of having to explain that shit to people! and im in the friggin army!!! you would think people in the military would know a little about firearms and firearms laws! they dont!


to be honest i never really understood why you would put a bipod on an m4 or any short rifle like that


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 17, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Lets get something straight people. No citizen in this country needs a Class 3 License to own ANY NFA weapon or automatic weapon. Class 3/Title just states the type of weapon and is only for FFL Dealers who wish to sell Title 3 NFA weapons.



Zoltta is right:

State by State Chart of NFA Restrictions

I was actually just gonna chime in and say something similar to what he said.


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

i forgot to mention just because NFA weapons are permitted in your state, doesnt mean youll ever get one. Prepare to pay as much as a brand new car IN CASH or CREDIT for one.


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## Metal Ken (Mar 18, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Edit 2: NEVER buy Taurus handguns



i have yet to see anything to substantiate these claims other than people on the internet talking about how they're "Not S&Ws".
not saying you're not entitled to your opinion of not liking them or whatever, nor am i saying you're wrong. I just get tired of seeing people bitch about taurus for no reason whatsoever. Every issue i've seen people complain about is a non-point on either of my two revolvers. after puttings hundreds of rounds through both of them, there is no extra cylinder play, they both have great feeling triggers, smooth, etc. 

Yeah, they're not gonna be up there with a S&W Performance center or whatever, but i wouldnt expect them to be for half the price or less. 

That said, i really really want a Performance Center .460XVR.


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## possumkiller (Mar 18, 2009)

yeah i have seen a shitty m3 grease gun made of steel pipe and stampings tac welded together selling for 10 grand just because its full auto.

btw what type of ar is that? i like the hk style fire control markings.


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 18, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Edit 2: NEVER buy Taurus handguns



Care to elaborate why you feel this way?


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## Metal Ken (Mar 18, 2009)

Product: Model 460 XVR Revolver - 8 3/8"

"A .45 Caliber bullet at 2300 FPS". Looks so awesome


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

Well im not trying to compare to SW or any other company but think of Taurus as the gun version of the Red Ring of Death that the xbox 360 has issues with. Not to mention their customer service sucks balls. I have a friend who had his Model 94 sent back THREE times for repair and each time they got them back the SAME problems occured. They just are known to have problems, some guns more than other and some none at all. I know people who never had a problem at all and some everytime. Im not bashing Taurus but i wouldnt buy one from the experiences ive heard from others. And these problems arent just One Offs from a bad seed, the same problems happen to thousands of them around the country. Just poor quality

But by all means, for a plinking gun, go for it. I own plenty of beat up guns and cheap guns i fuck around with. Not everything has to be a Safe queen

And possum killer, Greaseguns are a rare breed, hard to find, hence its price. Mac 10 and 11s, same stamped garbage is around 5-6k for an auto

As for the AR, its a custom build from the ground up. The lower receiver with the HK markings is a product of Spikes Tactical.


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## BigPhi84 (Mar 18, 2009)

Here's a couple pics of a Sig Sauer 9mm RTT that I used to have.










I sold it (along with my drumset) to pay for my Axe-FX Ultra. I'll try to take some photos of my current gun tomorrow, a Sig Platinum Elite 9mm.


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Product: Model 460 XVR Revolver - 8 3/8"
> 
> "A .45 Caliber bullet at 2300 FPS". Looks so awesome



we are talking expensive ammo too, but then again its not like you will be shooting much out of it each session before you get a headache


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## BigPhi84 (Mar 18, 2009)

BTW, isn't the Glock G18c illegal to own? Boy, I'd love to try one of those!


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

BigPhi84 said:


> Here's a couple pics of a Sig Sauer 9mm RTT that I used to have.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice sig, i own one Sig and its a P232 in 380. I kinda wish i didnt buy it because brass for it is hard to come by and i reload for it since its too expensive for factory ammo.


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

BigPhi84 said:


> BTW, isn't the Glock G18c illegal to own? Boy, I'd love to try one of those!



One? I wanna try TWO!

but they are considered NFA weapons and need what ive stated before on the other page just like every other NFA


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## Metal Ken (Mar 18, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Well im not trying to compare to SW or any other company but think of Taurus as the gun version of the Red Ring of Death that the xbox 360 has issues with. Not to mention their customer service sucks balls. I have a friend who had his Model 94 sent back THREE times for repair and each time they got them back the SAME problems occured. They just are known to have problems, some guns more than other and some none at all. I know people who never had a problem at all and some everytime. Im not bashing Taurus but i wouldnt buy one from the experiences ive heard from others. And these problems arent just One Offs from a bad seed, the same problems happen to thousands of them around the country. Just poor quality
> 
> But by all means, for a plinking gun, go for it. I own plenty of beat up guns and cheap guns i fuck around with. Not everything has to be a Safe queen


I get what you're saying, and i've heard that from a few people online, too. And i realize shit like that happens. I guess i'm one of the people who have never had an issue. I couldnt be more pleased with how my model 44 is. like i said, the trigger is smooth, nice weight, the cylinder is still tight after lots of firing full power .44 loads through it, its very accurate, etc. 

I suppose its like guitars-- really look at what the exact item you're purchasing before you buy.


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## Metal Ken (Mar 18, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> we are talking expensive ammo too, but then again its not like you will be shooting much out of it each session before you get a headache



Yea, but the nice thing about it is that you can just use .454 or even just regular 45 Colt if you want. So if you dont want to drop 60$ for a box of ammo, you can just buy a box of .45colt for way less (Its, what, around the same price as .44 mag? I've never owned a gun that fires .45Colt, so i dunno )


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 18, 2009)

Mmmmmm, Sigs, NOW were talking!! I own a .40 P226, that i'll have till the day i die! I fucking love the thing. It gets shot every other Saturday (sometimes EVERY Saturday), and i always bring at the very least 100 rounds with me, and they are always gone by the time it gets dark after a long Saturday of shooting.

Absolutely perfect reliability, superb accuracy (even for people new to the gun), feels great in my hands, the finish is very durable, and its got the ability to swap calibers. I couldnt ask for any more in a handgun. Its THE perfect handgun in my opinion.

And besides, who needs a safety anyway?


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Mmmmmm, Sigs, NOW were talking!! I own a .40 P226, that i'll have till the day i die! I fucking love the thing. It gets shot every other Saturday (sometimes EVERY Saturday), and i always bring at the very least 100 rounds with me, and they are always gone by the time it gets dark after a long Saturday of shooting.
> 
> Absolutely perfect reliability, superb accuracy (even for people new to the gun), feels great in my hands, the finish is very durable, and its got the ability to swap calibers. I couldnt ask for any more in a handgun. Its THE perfect handgun in my opinion.
> 
> And besides, who needs a safety anyway?



I agree here, Sigs are one of the finest made handguns you can get. I plan on getting a 220 in the future


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

Since we are on the subject of handguns ill post my small handgun collection. Im not much of a handgun collector, more rifle but here they are:

From top to bottom

44 caliber black powder pistol. (something i randomly picked up, dont know the exact name, it collects dust)
TC Contender in 357 MAXIMUM. I have a few contenders in different calibers.
SW Model 29 Classic in .44
SW 686 in 357 mag
Sig 232 in 380
Right Side: Springfield 1911 45acp

My favorite by far and also caliber is the black contender. Hand Cannons R Us


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## Metal Ken (Mar 18, 2009)

Model 29, nice. I'd love to get a hold of one of those.


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## possumkiller (Mar 18, 2009)

dear jesus i want that 226!! is that a titanium frame??? ive never seen that one before. what year model is it? i also had a 232 .380 and loved it. well except the funky mag release and the lack of a slide stop lever that you can operate with your fingers. cant you trim and ream 9mm brass for .380?


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

possumkiller said:


> dear jesus i want that 226!! is that a titanium frame??? ive never seen that one before. what year model is it? i also had a 232 .380 and loved it. well except the funky mag release and the lack of a slide stop lever that you can operate with your fingers. cant you trim and ream 9mm brass for .380?



i wouldnt recommend cutting brass lol, reloading isnt exactly pour powder in and throw on a bullet like everyone thinks. The problem with cutting the brass would be inaccurate and canted cuts producing uneven pressure on the bullet since pistol ammo isnt crimped like rifle brass. Its not pressed into place so to speak. Any slight slight slight mistake and you can get hurt very badly. Year and year of experience and knowledge is needed for reloading and i doubt anyone with decaded of experience can accurately cut precise brass. I wont even get into details


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 18, 2009)

Damn, nice little arsenal you got there Zoltta!


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Model 29, nice. I'd love to get a hold of one of those.



i got that one for a steal. This particular model with the 8 inch barrel and double underlug has been discontinued since the early 80s and are hard as hell to find. I got it for 600 bucks from a friend who thought he was charging me too much. I saw one at a recent gun show that was beat to SHIT and they wanted 1300 for it.........mine is more mint than a 16 year old virgin blond.


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Damn, nice little arsenal you got there Zoltta!



I have 35+ rifles to go along with it after i sold 8 during the past few months 

Its my main hobby


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## Metal Ken (Mar 18, 2009)

possumkiller said:


> cant you trim and ream 9mm brass for .380?



Seems like a lot of effort for only a little savings in ammo?


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## Elysian (Mar 18, 2009)

Ahh i love guns. I made it to the gun range saturday, put 50 rounds down the barrel of my friends HK45, what a great gun. Didn't seem to have any more kick than the Baretta 9mm we shot in the military, and was just comfy, very light trigger. Heres my silhouette, not too shabby considering I haven't shot since early 2004... And no, no headshots, center of mass only thanks.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 18, 2009)

This thread is giving me GAS, Gun Acquisition Syndrome  Too bad it's too much of a pain in the ass to deal with here getting them.


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 18, 2009)

Hey Elysian, from how far away was that silhouette shot? Just curious.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> The thing that sucks about those guns is the bullets are 2.00$ each



 What?? Wow, that blows...



Zoltta said:


> Since we are on the subject of handguns ill post my small handgun collection. Im not much of a handgun collector, more rifle but here they are:
> 
> From top to bottom
> 
> ...



Holy shit dude, anyone ties breaking into your house, they're fucked


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 18, 2009)

Jesus christ, its all you can do in the UK to get a Black Powder licence, let alone anything else - but having done a fair amount of shooting in my youth pistols get my vote. That, or a really nice bolt-action which is what I learnt to shoot on....hrrmm....Enfield.....


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

^ Buy an old 40's Mauser rifle  They look incredible.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 18, 2009)

Is that a Mk5 Enfield Jungle Carbine! What!! and a type 38? Nice bolties?  

(What is the one on the bottom?)


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Is that a Mk5 Enfield Jungle Carbine! What!! and a type 38? Nice bolties?
> 
> (What is the one on the bottom?)



I wish i had the answers to your questions (i don't actually own any guns yet ... just "GAS")


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 18, 2009)

Oh man, I was all exicited then - I thought you were a bolt-action enthusiast  I was quite into firearms when I was training in martial arts and pondering joining the army so I have some of them absolutely comitted to memory.

Yes, I am that sad  

Enfield L42:






Lee-Enfield No4 Mk2:






I can't find a decent shot of a Parker-hale M82 but I used that in the cadets as well as a GPMG, Sterling SMG, Browning 9mm, Bren and the mighty SLR. These days, they're lucky to get their hands on a semi-auto only L85


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

I like the look of bolt actions more than semi autos, they seem like they would be more reliable somehow, whether thats just my ignorance coming through, or something legit, i don't know


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 18, 2009)

I just like fondling mah wood 

There used to be some validity in the bolt action vs automatic reliability factor but thats pretty much a non-issue these days. I just an aesthetic thing for me, and more than a small slice of sentimentallity. I used to play airsoft regularly and my thing was always sitting in a bush with my ghillie on waiting for that one perfect shot rather than hosing down the OpFor with a zillion BB's.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

^  win 

Id like to get my gun license... need that and a drivers license... maybe soon


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## CatPancakes (Mar 18, 2009)

silentrage said:


> I would imagine they're pretty damn clunky to shoot.
> You ever try the longer barrel versions? I saw some pics of it with a scope and a long barrel on top and thought, holy hell can you snipe with that thing?!?!



i didnt read through all the pages so i dont know if it was said, but NO!
they are extremely inaccurate guns from what i hear, this isnt CS, deagles reallya re terrible impractical guns


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## telecaster90 (Mar 18, 2009)

The top one is my dad's Stagg AR-15 build. The bottom one is my Yugo M24/47. Guns are sweet


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## Metal Ken (Mar 18, 2009)

CatPancakes said:


> i didnt read through all the pages so i dont know if it was said, but NO!
> they are extremely inaccurate guns from what i hear, this isnt CS, deagles reallya re terrible impractical guns



Well, they do have the option of 10" barrels, but those just look corny.


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## Zoltta (Mar 18, 2009)

Here is another, not done with it yet







Some more, NONE OF IT is illegal so dont start.

30 Rounder is a blocked mag to 15 rounds and the silencer is fake and nothing but a barrel extension





















Thats all for now


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## The Atomic Ass (Mar 18, 2009)

MFB said:


> Not only is it totally unnecessary and showing off, but also illegal



These are not bad points in my book... 



MFB said:


> I could've swore that .50 cals were illegal to own? Guess I'm outdated on my gun regulations



I thought guns were illegal in MA period...  I guess ya' learn something new everyday.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Mar 18, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Here is another, not done with it yet
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You should frame those pictures and hang them on your door so potential intruders know whats up


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## BigPhi84 (Mar 18, 2009)

Yeah, the mag is out. Safety first.















possumkiller said:


> dear jesus i want that 226!! is that a titanium frame??? ive never seen that one before. what year model is it? i also had a 232 .380 and loved it. well except the funky mag release and the lack of a slide stop lever that you can operate with your fingers. cant you trim and ream 9mm brass for .380?




It's a stainless steel frame. I can't remember the official Sig serial code for the gun, but it was a RTT (reverse two tone) 9mm P226R. Unlike the RTT P226R .40 and the RTT P220R .45 that came with plain black slides, the 9mm version came with the same slide as the Sig Sauer Equinox line.


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## The Atomic Ass (Mar 18, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> This thread is giving me GAS, Gun Acquisition Syndrome  Too bad it's too much of a pain in the ass to deal with here getting them.



It's a big pain in the Ass to get them HERE, IMO. 1 form is 1 form too many. 



Demoniac said:


> I wish i had the answers to your questions (i don't actually own any guns yet ... just "GAS")



The way your country is I think that may be a permanent situation.


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 18, 2009)

Oh man, BigPhi, thats one nice Sig!!! I love the look of the two tone Sigs. I've been tempted so many times to trade my P226 in for a two version. Two local shops near me have the two tones in stock. I have a feeling the next time i go to either one of them, i'll be walking out with a two tone P226.

I gotta scoop up a damn camera so i can post some pics of my small arsenal as well.


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## MFB (Mar 18, 2009)

The Atomic Ass said:


> These are not bad points in my book...
> 
> 
> 
> I thought guns were illegal in MA period...  I guess ya' learn something new everyday.



No no no no no, all you need is a simple permit/license. My dad's owned several including an AR-15, and currently a 12 gauge shotgun


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## The Atomic Ass (Mar 18, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> You should frame those pictures and hang them on your door so potential intruders know whats up



You should follow some of your own advice, even if you don't own any of the weapons in question. 



MFB said:


> No no no no no, all you need is a simple permit/license. My dad's owned several including an AR-15, and currently a 12 gauge shotgun



This is very much news to me. Of the good variety. 

[action=The Atomic Ass]goes to look up some of the suggested models, as well as the ones mentioned[/action]


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## MFB (Mar 18, 2009)

The Atomic Ass said:


> This is very much news to me. Of the good variety.
> 
> * The Atomic Ass goes to look up some of the suggested models, as well as the ones mentioned



Just double checked and it seems "To own a firearm, not only must you pass a federal NCIS check, but you must be approved for and receive your Firearms Identification Card (FID). It is illegal to own a weapon without a security-approved FID."


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## Groff (Mar 18, 2009)

Zoltta said:


>



Nice! I love the bolt action one! I really like the look of rifles like this.


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## Zoltta (Mar 19, 2009)

Groff said:


> Nice! I love the bolt action one! I really like the look of rifles like this.



Its a German Mauser from WW2, real fun to shoot. Old military bolt actions are a riot


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 19, 2009)

Them germans sure do make great shit...Guns, amps, cars, etc. They just do things the right way.


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## Zoltta (Mar 19, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Them germans sure do make great shit...Guns, amps, cars, etc. They just do things the right way.



if you go back in history, pretty much every major invention that changed the world today, is invited by the germans or had something to do with them lol


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 19, 2009)

Zlotta - really liking the G3 + Magpull stock (is that a PSG mag in there?) and the scoped shotgun. Never fired a scoped shottie so how exactly do they perform?

Damn, I got to move to the US


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## BigPhi84 (Mar 19, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> if you go back in history, pretty much every major invention that changed the world today, is invited by the germans or had something to do with them lol




I thought that was the Greeks with their Windex and Kimonos! LOL.


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## Zoltta (Mar 19, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Zlotta - really liking the G3 + Magpull stock (is that a PSG mag in there?) and the scoped shotgun. Never fired a scoped shottie so how exactly do they perform?
> 
> Damn, I got to move to the US



Scoped shotty is my slug gun and performs very well in close terrain hunting like we have in NJ. Since we cant hunt with a rifle in NJ its the closest thing.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 19, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Scoped shotty is my slug gun and performs very well in close terrain hunting like we have in NJ. Since we cant hunt with a rifle in NJ its the closest thing.



Aye, I knew it would be slugs but didn't have any idea how they actually performed downrange. Good to know as getting a shotty licence in the UK isn't _that _onerous


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## JBroll (Mar 20, 2009)

silentrage said:


> Not a gun owner (yet), so take it for what it's worth, but I've always been a fan of the DE .50



They seem like a good idea, but...

Home defense: unless your home has lots of open space everywhere or nothing flammable anywhere, you stand a good chance of setting your fucking curtains on fire. It's well past overkill and into too-powerful-to-be-useful unless you're the goddamn Hulk.

Hunting: get a damned rifle... or if you're going to be a real badass, a bow.

Trying to not-so-subtly compensate for something: Sure, that and a gigantic pickup with eight-foot wheels and you'll be pulling in mad bitches left and right.

Jeff


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## Metal Ken (Mar 20, 2009)

JBroll said:


> They seem like a good idea, but...
> 
> Home defense: unless your home has lots of open space everywhere or nothing flammable anywhere, you stand a good chance of setting your fucking curtains on fire. It's well past overkill and into too-powerful-to-be-useful unless you're the goddamn Hulk.
> 
> ...



Actually, the .50AE isnt that overblown. Its just big. Speaking in terms of power, the .500 S&W Magnum (the one the revolvers use) has thrice the torque that the .50AE does. The velocity and torque of the .50AE is outclassed by everything bigger than a .44 Magnum (Or really hot .44 Mag loads). Also, a .50AE Desert can have the barrel and magazine changed and chamber .44 Mag, or .357 Mag as well. I'd never buy one, but still.

FWIW, lots of people use scoped high caliber revolvers (.500S&W Magnum or the S&W460 mag i posted earlier in the thread) for hunting shit like moose and other big game.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 20, 2009)

They do indeed - its still a way OTT for home defence  

Put the DE into its place in time and from the late 70's (it was designed in 1983) there have been a fair few people putting cut-down rifle cartridges/hot loads into pistols with more or less success (Automag, Wildey, TC) so with the media coverage the DE got its inevitable that it will crop up in most discussions about guns. 

The fact its a bit pointless doesn't detract from the fun factor I guess


----------



## Groff (Mar 20, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Its a German Mauser from WW2, real fun to shoot. Old military bolt actions are a riot



Funny thing is, I see them all the time for like $200-300 from time to time at my local gun shop. I need to get my gun license....


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 20, 2009)

Groff said:


> Funny thing is, I see them all the time for like $200-300 from time to time at my local gun shop. I need to get my gun license....



Aye, they're not a lot of cash. You can pick up a .303 Lee-enfield over here for £140 GBP or so - great way to get into shooting.


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## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

It depends on the model and if its been refinished or not, and of course its condition. Ive seen a few that were up to 900 bucks but they were collector pieces


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## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Actually, the .50AE isnt that overblown. Its just big. Speaking in terms of power, the .500 S&W Magnum (the one the revolvers use) has thrice the torque that the .50AE does. The velocity and torque of the .50AE is outclassed by everything bigger than a .44 Magnum (Or really hot .44 Mag loads). Also, a .50AE Desert can have the barrel and magazine changed and chamber .44 Mag, or .357 Mag as well. I'd never buy one, but still.
> 
> FWIW, lots of people use scoped high caliber revolvers (.500S&W Magnum or the S&W460 mag i posted earlier in the thread) for hunting shit like moose and other big game.



Believe it or not 357 mag is a very popular amongst the DE crowd seeing as its the only semi auto currently chambering that cartridge.

As for 50AE, shot one plenty of times, and it was fucking awesome. Not sure if id drop that much cash on a handgun but it definitely brings the smile on the face. Only thing once again is the price of ammo on top of the price of the gun. Another thing id have to reload for  but might be worth it


----------



## ShadyDavey (Mar 20, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> It depends on the model and if its been refinished or not, and of course its condition. Ive seen a few that were up to 900 bucks but they were collector pieces



Oh aye 

Your standard 1950's issue No4 Mk2 doesn't have a great intrinsic value. Your scope-equipped Springfield '03 might well do  (Damn, I love bolt actions!!)


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## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Oh aye
> 
> Your standard 1950's issue No4 Mk2 doesn't have a great intrinsic value. Your scope-equipped Springfield '03 might well do  (Damn, I love bolt actions!!)



lol you should get your C&R license, you can get them shipped to your house in crates without having to bother with dealers.


----------



## ShadyDavey (Mar 20, 2009)

Aye, aye - I probably should.

Or move to the US and see if I can't make a go of things there as I've cocked up my life in the UK


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## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

oh yeah forgot you were in the UK lol


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## Lucky Seven (Mar 20, 2009)

I've got a Saiga in .223 and a Mosin-Nagant 1891/30. Both are fucking great guns for the money. Luckly I bought the Saiga right before those things started going wayyyyy up in price. I'll be modding (pistol grip etc.) it once my bro and dad get their 7.62s in.

I LOVE my Mosin. I made sure I bought one with all the important parts in great condition, no pits or any of that crap. I <3 cheap ammo. I haven't actually bought anything since I turned 18 though.

I know ARs are expensive as hell right now, but I can only see their price going up so I think I might build one as soon as I can. It's an investment lol. My brother is currently waiting for parts to come in so he can finish his newest one chambered in 6.8mm Rem SPC.


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## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

Lucky Seven said:


> I've got a Saiga in .223 and a Mosin-Nagant 1891/30. Both are fucking great guns for the money. Luckly I bought the Saiga right before those things started going wayyyyy up in price. I'll be modding (pistol grip etc.) it once my bro and dad get their 7.62s in.
> 
> I LOVE my Mosin. I made sure I bought one with all the important parts in great condition, no pits or any of that crap. I <3 cheap ammo. I haven't actually bought anything since I turned 18 though.
> 
> I know ARs are expensive as hell right now, but I can only see their price going up so I think I might build one as soon as I can. It's an investment lol. My brother is currently waiting for parts to come in so he can finish his newest one chambered in 6.8mm Rem SPC.



i honestly wouldnt bother building an AR right now, if you can find a complete rifle that isnt over priced, buy it because everything right now is backed up for almost a year. Im talking barrel's, upper and lower receivers, lower parts kits, stocks forearms etc etc not to mention lower receivers went up almost 3x the price. I was going to build a 308 and no matter where i looked, everything was allllll kinds of fucked up, even for 308 parts. But if you really want to, id check out AR15.com Exchange Forums, youll probably find some shit there, especially for the 6.8


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 20, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> its still a way OTT for home defence



Yeah, that may be true, but in my eyes, when it comes to protecting myself and my family, there is no such thing as over-the-top or overkill. I dont want you to be able to walk away or even live for that matter if you try to come break into my house and harm me or my family, especially if your armed as well. So, anything goes for home protection...any caliber gun, knives, hammers, rocket launchers, homing missiles, nuclear bombs, its all game.

Besides, whats considered over the top, is very subjective. What one thinks is enough to kill someone, another might think isnt enough.


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## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Yeah, that may be true, but in my eyes, when it comes to protecting myself and my family, there is no such thing as over-the-top or overkill. I dont want you to be able to walk away or even live for that matter if you try to come break into my house and harm me or my family, especially if your armed as well. So, anything goes for home protection...any caliber gun, knives, hammers, rocket launchers, homing missiles, nuclear bombs, its all game.
> 
> Besides, whats considered over the top, is very subjective. What one thinks is enough to kill someone, another might think isnt enough.



Dont forget, here in the US, if you kill an armed home intruder, YOU are going to jail, even if you dont even kill him. If i had the chance whether to kill someone like that or just take him out in a way that he cant do shit anymore, you bet your ass i wont kill him. But of course if it was necessary, of course id do anything to protect my family, even if it means me going away for a while.

While we are on that subject, a shotgun is best home defense you can get. Just point and shoot. Rather have a shotgun over an assault rifle any day of the week


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## JBroll (Mar 20, 2009)

Revolvers are just classier anyway... the .500 revolver by whoever does the DE is fucking massive, and while it could be useful for hunting goddamned aeroplanes I guess I haven't come across the really good reasons why they'd be better off than rifles.

Jeff


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 20, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Dont forget, here in the US, if you kill an armed home intruder, YOU are going to jail, even if you dont even kill him. If i had the chance whether to kill someone like that or just take him out in a way that he cant do shit anymore, you bet your ass i wont kill him. But of course if it was necessary, of course id do anything to protect my family, even if it means me going away for a while.
> 
> While we are on that subject, a shotgun is best home defense you can get. Just point and shoot. Rather have a shotgun over an assault rifle any day of the week



I know, and i agree. These are circumstances that i'm sure most of us will never have to deal with (hopefully) though, that were talking about.

And yeah, thats the main reason i bought my shotgun, for home protection, that may be ass backwards to some people, but i got one of the youth 12 gauge Remington 870's, so its a good bit smaller and shorter than a regular 870. Its small enough to be able to make quick movements with and is moved through my doorways very easily. The main reason i got it for home defense is because, where i live, ANY and all police are at the very least 15 minutes away. So if something serious happens, the guns are all i got.

I also agree about the shotgun comment, i dont know anyone who wouldnt be stopped dead in their tracks with a 12 gauge buckshot round to the legs!


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## JBroll (Mar 20, 2009)

Wait, if you kill an armed home intruder you're going to jail even if you don't kill him? I know we're backwards, but...

Jeff


----------



## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> I know, and i agree. These are circumstances that i'm sure most of us will never have to deal with (hopefully) though, that were talking about.
> 
> And yeah, thats the main reason i bought my shotgun, for home protection, that may be ass backwards to some people, but i got one of the youth 12 gauge Remington 870's, so its a good bit smaller and shorter than a regular 870. Its small enough to be able to make quick movements with and is easily moved through my doorways very easily. The main reason i got it for home defense is because, where i live, ANY and all police are at the very least 15 minutes away. So it something serious happens, the guns are all i got.
> 
> I also agree about the shotgun comment, i dont know anyone who wouldnt be stopped dead in their tracks with a 12 gauge buckshot round to the legs!



lol i have one of those youth models, i love that gun. I even take it skeet shooting  I recently popped on a pistol grip stand alone withouth the stock and its now the ultimate house gun  as far as shooting them in the legs with buckshot, im a hunter and i will never shoot a deer closer than 10 yards of me or the pellets ruin the meat. Now shooting someone in the legs 5 feet in front of you....oh man they wouldnt have any legs left


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## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

JBroll said:


> Wait, if you kill an armed home intruder you're going to jail even if you don't kill him? I know we're backwards, but...
> 
> Jeff



depends on the state, places like Texas and Florida have a RIGHT to kill any armed trespassers on their property. Here in NJ if the intruder is armed with 2 AK 47s, a rocket launcher, and some grenades, and you shoot him in the leg with a BB gun and he runs away, not only will he sue you for everything you got, but you will go to jail for a long time. And guess what, he wont


----------



## WhiteShadow (Mar 20, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> lol i have one of those youth models, i love that gun. I even take it skeet shooting  I recently popped on a pistol grip stand alone withouth the stock and its now the ultimate house gun



Fuck yeah man! They are badass little shotguns. I shoot some skeet every once in a while, but i'm trash when it comes to shooting skeet. Probably because i never really do it much, i'm always more concerned with my handgun marksmanship.


And i'll have to do some research about my laws (here in PA) about armed intruders and such, or ask my lawyer the next chance i get. I do remember a local story about a guy breaking into a house with a knife, the owner shooting him in the stomach, there was one witness, and the owner still got 2 years jail time.

And fuck man, that NJ law is horribly wrong.


----------



## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Fuck yeah man! They are badass little shotguns. I shoot some skeet every once in a while, but i'm trash when it comes to shooting skeet.



i only go skeet every other month, its not my thing but i go because of my grandfather and uncle like to do it. But when i go, everyone always has these fancy ass expensive skeep guns designed for only that, and i show up with this half pint shotgun that cant hit a fucking thing, but i wind up kicking their asses in the long run. Fucker has no choke tubes, so its hard to miss lol


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## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Fuck yeah man! They are badass little shotguns. I shoot some skeet every once in a while, but i'm trash when it comes to shooting skeet. Probably because i never really do it much, i'm always more concerned with my handgun marksmanship.
> 
> 
> And i'll have to do some research about my laws (here in PA) about armed intruders and such, or ask my lawyer the next chance i get. I do remember a local story about a guy breaking into a house with a knife, the owner shooting him in the stomach, there was one witness, and the owner still got 2 years jail time.
> ...



Im suprised, the laws in PA are great as far as what you are aloud to have. NFA weapons and all. I think it depends on where you are. Im sure if you do that in phili or something youd get locked up but what about the sticks up in the poconos? Some of them fuckers up there are crazy


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## JBroll (Mar 20, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> depends on the state, places like Texas and Florida have a RIGHT to kill any armed trespassers on their property. Here in NJ if the intruder is armed with 2 AK 47s, a rocket launcher, and some grenades, and you shoot him in the leg with a BB gun and he runs away, not only will he sue you for everything you got, but you will go to jail for a long time. And guess what, he wont



No, I knew that - I'm sure you meant to say that if you *shoot* an armed home intruder you'll go to jail even if you don't kill him, but you said that 'if you kill an armed intruder you go to jail even if you don't kill him', which doesn't make an awful lot of sense.

Jeff


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## AK DRAGON (Mar 20, 2009)

I remember reading an article where an elderly woman came home to a burgler and trapped him in the bathroom. he refused to come out when she cambered her empty shotgun. the burgler was willing to comply with police when they arrived to take him away from the crazy old lady with a shotgun. 

I can't remember where I read this but I had to share. It just goes to show that you don't have to use violent force to get your point across. Just letting them know you mean business when you chamber your shotgun


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## JBroll (Mar 20, 2009)

The vast majority of crimes stopped by firearms don't involve a single shot, and more lives are saved than lost by private firearm ownership.

Jeff


----------



## WhiteShadow (Mar 20, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Im suprised, the laws in PA are great as far as what you are aloud to have. NFA weapons and all. I think it depends on where you are. Im sure if you do that in phili or something youd get locked up but what about the sticks up in the poconos? Some of them fuckers up there are crazy



I'm sure the odds are on the owners side in PA. I dont know for sure though. I'm more near Harrisburg than i am Philly. I have relatives in the sticks up in Huntingdon County, PA. And i know all too well about the crazy fucking tweekers and hicks that live in the mountains up there, just waiting for random people to come up there through their land so they can entertain themselves while using you as target practice.




JBroll said:


> The vast majority of crimes stopped by firearms don't involve a single shot, and more lives are saved than lost by private firearm ownership.



Quoted for truth.


----------



## Zoltta (Mar 20, 2009)

JBroll said:


> No, I knew that - I'm sure you meant to say that if you *shoot* an armed home intruder you'll go to jail even if you don't kill him, but you said that 'if you kill an armed intruder you go to jail even if you don't kill him', which doesn't make an awful lot of sense.
> 
> Jeff



lol shoot is what i meant


----------



## Metal Ken (Mar 21, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Yeah, that may be true, but in my eyes, when it comes to protecting myself and my family, there is no such thing as over-the-top or overkill. I dont want you to be able to walk away or even live for that matter if you try to come break into my house and harm me or my family, especially if your armed as well. So, anything goes for home protection...any caliber gun, knives, hammers, rocket launchers, homing missiles, nuclear bombs, its all game.
> 
> Besides, whats considered over the top, is very subjective. What one thinks is enough to kill someone, another might think isnt enough.



You have to consider other factors. If you use something too OTT, your ammo might just pass through the intruder, not causing nearly as much damage as a slower shell that has less power and stays inside of them. You also have to deal with the issue of overpenetration. If you live in an apartment (especially the way they're built now), you could shoot the guy in the next room over.


----------



## Metal Ken (Mar 21, 2009)

JBroll said:


> Revolvers are just classier anyway... the .500 revolver by whoever does the DE is fucking massive, and while it could be useful for hunting goddamned aeroplanes I guess I haven't come across the really good reasons why they'd be better off than rifles.
> 
> Jeff



Magnum Research. They make the "BFR Revolvers". They even make them in some rifle calibers, too (30-30 and .444 Marlin, etc). They look a little too "Cowboy" for my tastes, though. They also make that same model in sizes as light as .22 Hornet.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 21, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Yeah, that may be true, but in my eyes, when it comes to protecting myself and my family, there is no such thing as over-the-top or overkill. I dont want you to be able to walk away or even live for that matter if you try to come break into my house and harm me or my family, especially if your armed as well. So, anything goes for home protection...any caliber gun, knives, hammers, rocket launchers, homing missiles, nuclear bombs, its all game.
> 
> Besides, whats considered over the top, is very subjective. What one thinks is enough to kill someone, another might think isnt enough.



Its subjective until you look at the facts man. A .50 AE at the range most home-defence scenarios happen is just pointless because it _will _over penetrate and I defy most firearm owners to think about what's behind their target when confronted with an intruder. Hey, is that Grannie's room? 

Recommended minimum seems to be 380auto or 9x19 Luger and maximum 44magnum/.45acp. 

Add to that the recoil, flash, and sheer noise of a .50 in confined spaces and it doesn't take much to see you're better off with a smaller calibre. Heck, at that range a nice 9mm, or .45 with JHPs (heck, I'd rather have a 12 gauge!) will allow you to get two _accurate_ shots off and no-one is getting up from that short of wearing a ballistic vest. 

I share your sentiments entirely when it comes to defending me and mine, I just think I'd rather do it with a more conservative but nonetheless effective firearm.

Oh wait, I'm in the UK. Erm......I have a pair of escrima sticks and a folding knife.....

Given the choice between those and the DEagle I'll take the .50 please


----------



## Zoltta (Mar 21, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Its subjective until you look at the facts man. A .50 AE at the range most home-defence scenarios happen is just pointless because it _will _over penetrate and I defy most firearm owners to think about what's behind their target when confronted with an intruder. Hey, is that Grannie's room?
> 
> Recommended minimum seems to be 380auto or 9x19 Luger and maximum 44magnum/.45acp.
> 
> ...



id NEVER use a 9mm or 380 as a carry weapon or home defense. Not nearly enough energy to take someone down and its been proven in soooo many cases. But sure, if you hit someone in the head or throat it will kill them, but if you dont you will still want something with a little more velocity and muzzle energy. The 50AE we are talking 1500+ ft-lb of energy while the 45 acp is maybe over 500 with a average 200gr bullet. Even if you use FMJ 50s, it will do a fuck ton of damage when it hits. The energy when it hits will probably disintegrate or severely dmg any vital organs within a 5 inch radius much like rifle bullet will. 

But as far as using one for home defense, its not needed. If you miss, the time taken to aim and fire the next shot MIGHT be too long. People tend to think they know what to do when shit like this would happen but when it does, what really happens if they panic and get scared, dont know what to do and just start popping off rounds into the abyss. Ever see those cop videos where they cop shot like 2 mags off and didnt hit the guy once? Thats because he panicked and all the training hes had in the past 10 years wasnt worth a fucking dime.

Long story shot, shotgun > all


----------



## ShadyDavey (Mar 21, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> But as far as using one for home defense, its not needed. If you miss, the time taken to aim and fire the next shot MIGHT be too long. People tend to think they know what to do when shit like this would happen but when it does, what really happens if they panic and get scared, dont know what to do and just start popping off rounds into the abyss. Ever see those cop videos where they cop shot like 2 mags off and didnt hit the guy once? Thats because he panicked and all the training hes had in the past 10 years wasnt worth a fucking dime.
> 
> Long story shot, shotgun > all



Yep, definately. I don't like 9mm either - was simply quoting from a couple of sources who seemed to be advocating smaller calibre. There's just not enough Hydrostatic shock generated by either round to stop people (let alone those who might be under the influence) unless you hit them somewhere immediately fatal. 

Shotguns for the win on several levels. I'm pretty cool headed but I'd probably fall under the "panics and empties a mag into the wall" category since its been years since I shot, and you know that Joe Intruder doesn't like 00 Buckshot re-arranging his organs. 

Still got mah escrima stick >_<


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## Lucky Seven (Mar 21, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> i honestly wouldnt bother building an AR right now, if you can find a complete rifle that isnt over priced, buy it because everything right now is backed up for almost a year. Im talking barrel's, upper and lower receivers, lower parts kits, stocks forearms etc etc not to mention lower receivers went up almost 3x the price. I was going to build a 308 and no matter where i looked, everything was allllll kinds of fucked up, even for 308 parts. But if you really want to, id check out AR15.com Exchange Forums, youll probably find some shit there, especially for the 6.8



The way I see it, it's an investment. The prices of these things aren't going to go down for a long time if at all. I'm good (mainly my brother and dad) at finding really good deals. I figure years from now I'll get AT LEAST what I paid for it. Who knows when another assault rifle ban will happen. I know the mini-14 isn't an AR (still doesn't deserve all the trash talk I hear about them), but remember when they went way up in price a long time ago? They never went back down... I KNOW I wont get one cheap, but I also know how not to pay too much for one (the parts) and I might as well get one now.



Zoltta said:


> While we are on that subject, a shotgun is best home defense you can get. Just point and shoot. Rather have a shotgun over an assault rifle any day of the week



Most definitely. Reminds me of what my father says, "People always bitch and moan about assault rifles, but if I were some evil asshole taking out a room of people, I'd take a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot."


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## Zoltta (Mar 21, 2009)

Lucky Seven said:


> The way I see it, it's an investment. The prices of these things aren't going to go down for a long time if at all. I'm good (mainly my brother and dad) at finding really good deals. I figure years from now I'll get AT LEAST what I paid for it. Who knows when another assault rifle ban will happen. I know the mini-14 isn't an AR (still doesn't deserve all the trash talk I hear about them), but remember when they went way up in price a long time ago? They never went back down... I KNOW I wont get one cheap, but I also know how not to pay too much for one (the parts) and I might as well get one now.
> 
> 
> 
> Most definitely. Reminds me of what my father says, "People always bitch and moan about assault rifles, but if I were some evil asshole taking out a room of people, I'd take a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot."



Ew no, mini 14s, yuck. The stories you hear are stories for a reason. They are inaccurate as fuck, jam way more than an AR and break too much. ARs are also 100x more customizable too.

Id definitely pick up a AR Carbine of some type. Can get a basic Stag or Bushy upper from ar15.com for like 500 bucks and probably a lower and parts kit with a total no more than a 1000.

No doubt a great investment, especially if shit hits the fan in a few years


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## Lucky Seven (Mar 21, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Ew no, mini 14s, yuck. The stories you hear are stories for a reason. They are inaccurate as fuck, jam way more than an AR and break too much. ARs are also 100x more customizable too.



Lol, I guess we have a "reverse lemon" then . Never had it jam, and as far as accuracy it's no AR but people act like you're lucky to hit the target at 100 yards. Never had such an experience with our mini-14, not saying that it doesn't happen to others', and I definitely wouldn't pay for one now, but we've never had bad luck with it. Ours is pre-1994 btw idk if that makes any difference, probably not.

We have 4 ARs right now. Two are being built. Amazing guns.


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## Zoltta (Mar 21, 2009)

Lucky Seven said:


> Lol, I guess we have a "reverse lemon" then . Never had it jam, and as far as accuracy it's no AR but people act like you're lucky to hit the target at 100 yards. Never had such an experience with our mini-14, not saying that it doesn't happen to others', and I definitely wouldn't pay for one now, but we've never had bad luck with it. Ours is pre-1994 btw idk if that makes any difference, probably not.
> 
> We have 4 ARs right now. Two are being built. Amazing guns.



yeah no doubt, AR has the best platform out there, cant make one into a million different things and thats what i love. I was going to build a 308 recently but i decided to add more to my HK91 instead since they put that new law out where you cant buy lower receivers outside of the state anymore. Not worth my time and effort. 

But if you dont already i HIGHLY recommend getting a .22LR conversion kit for the AR. It is incredibly fun, and the recoil is almost the same and fucking cheap as hell. Not to mention, run out of 223 at the range, open her up, pop in the 22 bolt assy and bam 22LR LOL. Never had so much fun before. Fucking buying a Ruger 10/22 or any other 22 rifle, this is perfect if you already have an AR. Accurate as fuck too depending on ammo, some if better than other obviously. Best part is you can go nuts and mag dump without burning a hole in your pocket.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 22, 2009)

AR? Fancying this one...(yeah, a bit late I know):

Blackwater&#8217;s new AR-15: BW15 | The Firearm Blog


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## ZeroSignal (Mar 22, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> AR? Fancying this one...(yeah, a bit late I know):
> 
> Blackwaters new AR-15: BW15 | The Firearm Blog



Does it come with special Iraqi children seeking bullets?


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## Lucky Seven (Mar 22, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Never had so much fun before. Fucking buying a Ruger 10/22 or any other 22 rifle, this is perfect if you already have an AR.



Yeah, especially considering how much harder it is to find a 10/22 for a reasonable price now. But yeah, way ahead of you lol. 22lr is so cheap, I love it!



ZeroSignal said:


> Does it come with special Iraqi children seeking bullets?



Ahahahaha did you really just say that? This is not the right thread for you...


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 22, 2009)

> But if you dont already i HIGHLY recommend getting a .22LR conversion kit for the AR. It is incredibly fun



A long time ago in the ACF (Army Cadet Force) we used to run .22LR Converstion kits in L1A1's for use in an indoor gallery range complete with the overhead projector that threw up life-sized images based on whatever range you wanted to "shoot" at.

It is indeed quite a blast


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## The Atomic Ass (Mar 22, 2009)

ZeroSignal said:


> Does it come with special Iraqi children seeking bullets?



AHAHAHA, ZING!


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## ZeroSignal (Mar 22, 2009)

Lucky Seven said:


> Ahahahaha did you really just say that? This is not the right thread for you...



No, not at all. But it needed to be said.



The Atomic Ass said:


> AHAHAHA, ZING!



Whay thank yeh kindleh!


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## Zoltta (Mar 22, 2009)

Lucky Seven said:


> Yeah, especially considering how much harder it is to find a 10/22 for a reasonable price now. But yeah, way ahead of you lol. 22lr is so cheap, I love it!
> 
> 
> 
> Ahahahaha did you really just say that? This is not the right thread for you...



I remember 10/22s being like 150 bucks a few years ago. Now with its growing popularity, they are like what? 300-350 bucks now for a standard stock rifle?? i absolutely refuse. I rather save a little more and buy a GSG-5 since you are already going far for a 22


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## phantaz (Mar 23, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> I rather save a little more and buy a GSG-5 since you are already going far for a 22




I have a GSG 5. Very fun gun to shoot.


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 25, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Its subjective until you look at the facts man. A .50 AE at the range most home-defence scenarios happen is just pointless because it _will _over penetrate and I defy most firearm owners to think about what's behind their target when confronted with an intruder. Hey, is that Grannie's room?
> 
> Recommended minimum seems to be 380auto or 9x19 Luger and maximum 44magnum/.45acp.
> 
> ...



I actually agree with everything you said. I personally use a shotgun for home defense and a Glock 23 (.40 Cal.) and used to use my Sig (.40 Cal.) for concealed carry. I'm content with the .40 Caliber round. It'll do the job.

I just dont think its someone elses position or business for that matter, to be telling a home owner what caliber is too much for home defense. As long as, if in the event that homeowner actually has to use that "too much" of a caliber weapon on an intruder, they dont hit or kill any innocent bystanders, and only hit their intended target. If they hit their intended target and then some...then theres a big problem. In short, i say let people use whatever the hell they want for home defense, as long as there is no collateral damage caused from whatever they use.


Also, i just scored a used Glock 23 for a mere $320 today!! I'm normally not a fan of Glocks. Mainly because of the grip and just the plasticky feeling. But the one i bought came with some kind of custom grip (no brand on it) on it that really makes it super comfortable for my hands. Plus, it being so lightweight, totally made it my new concealed carry gun! Its a hell of alot lighter than my Sig, and i can barely feel it in my holster while on my waist. I'm always gonna be a Sig fiend, but these Glocks ARE starting to grow on me!


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## Choop (Mar 25, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> Ew no, mini 14s, yuck. The stories you hear are stories for a reason. They are inaccurate as fuck, jam way more than an AR and break too much. ARs are also 100x more customizable too.



D: I have a mini, it's an '87 model and I like it enough. Nothing has "broken" lol. I disagree with saying that they jam way more than an AR. The only time mine has ever jammed is when I used this pos 40 round mag and it had horrible feeding issues. That said, I'd love an AR cause i'm a sucker for tacticool...but prices are out of this world right now if you can even manage to find one.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 25, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Also, i just scored a used Glock 23 for a mere $320 today!! I'm normally not a fan of Glocks. Mainly because of the grip and just the plasticky feeling. But the one i bought came with some kind of custom grip (no brand on it) on it that really makes it super comfortable for my hands. Plus, it being so lightweight, totally made it my new concealed carry gun! Its a hell of alot lighter than my Sig, and i can barely feel it in my holster while on my waist. I'm always gonna be a Sig fiend, but these Glocks ARE starting to grow on me!



Nice score - theres definately a reason Glocks are popular and I guess that comfort factor and reliability has a lot to do with it. Don't like em much personally (SIG all the way) but hey, to each his own.

My concealed carry is erm.....a bunch of keys.....


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## Daemoniac (Mar 25, 2009)

Well, i looked into what is required to get a gun licence here in Aus, cos i decided i want a revolver. Turns out im not allowed to own one for recreational shooting. What a joke


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## BigPhi84 (Mar 25, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Nice score - theres definately a reason Glocks are popular and I guess that comfort factor and reliability has a lot to do with it. Don't like em much personally (SIG all the way) but hey, to each his own.
> 
> My concealed carry is erm.....a bunch of keys.....




Yeah, I'm a Sig guy as well. I just don't like the grip of any Glocks and the angle of that grip in relation to the barrel. When I draw a Glock from a holster, I'm always aiming a foot higher. But, I guess that's just personal preference as I know of a lot of competitive shooters use Glocks exclusively.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 25, 2009)

Demoniac said:


> Well, i looked into what is required to get a gun licence here in Aus, cos i decided i want a revolver. Turns out im not allowed to own one for recreational shooting. What a joke



I could get a Black Powder licence but while there's a part of me that really digs the older muskets, flintlocks and C19th weapons Its just not viable at the moment with the cash shortage.

I do have a friend who has such a licence, so I'm in the midst of persuading him I need to have an afternoon with his babies 



BigPhi84 said:


> Yeah, I'm a Sig guy as well. I just don't like the grip of any Glocks and the angle of that grip in relation to the barrel. When I draw a Glock from a holster, I'm always aiming a foot higher. But, I guess that's just personal preference as I know of a lot of competitive shooters use Glocks exclusively.



I also find Glocks a little plain stylistically


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 25, 2009)

I just got back from shooting my Sig and my Glock on my day off today. 3 Hours of shooting, approx. 350 rounds spent, many a laughs, and one hell of a good time.

I really have to get used to the Glock, the trigger pull is tricky to get used to compared to my Sig P226, and my aim is way off. This is clearly because i've only been shooting the damn thing for a couple hours, as opposed to my P226, where i've got weeks worth of shooting with it. With a few more hours with the Glock i can tell i'll be alot better. I had a similar experience as BigPhi talked about a few posts previously, i was finding my shots hitting the target 6-12inches above my intended target because of the more drastic angle of the barrel in relation to the grip. But, like i said, thats nothing a few more hours of shooting cant fix.

I'm pretty set now for a LONG time, if not forever, as far as handguns go, i've got two insanely reliable firearms that i'm sure will last me my entire life, and then some.

Next, i'd like to venture into some rifle territory, although, i've never really been a fan of rifles, i have alot more fun with shotguns and handguns. Granted, i dont have too much experience with rifles. The only rifle i have experience with is a bolt action 30-06. So thats probably what i'm gonna be looking into getting. Anyone have any suggestions of good ones to get?


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 25, 2009)

Can't go too far wrong with a Remington 700 I reckon  

Winchester Model 70, Ruger M77, Browning X or A bolt - I guess there's not a huge difference in any of them but I'll admit I'm not up to speed on my firearms. Given the choice I could be tempted with an Accuracy International but they're not everyone's cup of tea (and they don't have a .30-06 version).


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 25, 2009)

Theres a local gunshop near me that rents all types of firearms, everything from hanguns all the way up to full auto weapons. I think my best best is gonna be to just go rent some and see which one i fall in love with.


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## Zoltta (Mar 25, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Theres a local gunshop near me that rents all types of firearms, everything from hanguns all the way up to full auto weapons. I think my best best is gonna be to just go rent some and see which one i fall in love with.



It will be the biggest one with the biggest price tag, i will tell you now


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## Zoltta (Mar 25, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> I just got back from shooting my Sig and my Glock on my day off today. 3 Hours of shooting, approx. 350 rounds spent, many a laughs, and one hell of a good time.
> 
> I really have to get used to the Glock, the trigger pull is tricky to get used to compared to my Sig P226, and my aim is way off. This is clearly because i've only been shooting the damn thing for a couple hours, as opposed to my P226, where i've got weeks worth of shooting with it. With a few more hours with the Glock i can tell i'll be alot better. I had a similar experience as BigPhi talked about a few posts previously, i was finding my shots hitting the target 6-12inches above my intended target because of the more drastic angle of the barrel in relation to the grip. But, like i said, thats nothing a few more hours of shooting cant fix.
> 
> ...



Remington 700 all the way but get one in synthetic not wood. Can do much more with synthetic if you wanted to add or replace things on it


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 25, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> It will be the biggest one with the biggest price tag, i will tell you now



 Yeah, probably will be. Especially considering i turn into a 12yr old at Toys-R-Us (minus the whining and 12yr old attitude) when i walk into this particular gun shop/range . Its one of the best gun shops in all of PA. Only a few years old, decently large, modest prices, full rifle and handgun range, and a shitload of firearms all over the place. IT IS, my Candyland!


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## Zoltta (Mar 26, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Yeah, probably will be. Especially considering i turn into a 12yr old at Toys-R-Us (minus the whining and 12yr old attitude) when i walk into this particular gun shop/range . Its one of the best gun shops in all of PA. Only a few years old, decently large, modest prices, full rifle and handgun range, and a shitload of firearms all over the place. IT IS, my Candyland!



which shop?


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## BurialWithin (Mar 26, 2009)

I like the golden guns on goldeneye for N-64 those things were awesome!!


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 26, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> which shop?



Its called Freedom Armory, its in Glen Rock, PA. About an hour north of Baltimore, MD, just seconds off of 83.

Freedom Armory - Home

The guys there are top notch too. All of them are complete gun nuts, very knowledgable and very friendly.


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## Zoltta (Mar 26, 2009)

ive heard of these guys. I was looking for a place close by NJ to rent NFA shit but this one was too far


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## WhiteShadow (Mar 28, 2009)

Yeah, Glen Rock is quite the trek from NJ.

Side note, i just scooped up my first 9mm and second composite receivered semi-auto today...a Ruger P95. Great gun for the price, actually, so far it seems to be a great gun regardless of price. VERY solidly built, easy to field strip, accurate, and a nice trigger pull (even in DA mode). I've only put about 150 rounds through it so far, but those 150 rounds were eaten up without even a hiccup. Scooped it up for a measely $298 out the door. Heres a pic (stock pic, this is NOT mine):







So much for the "Being set as far as handguns goes" talk.


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## Elysian (Mar 28, 2009)

WhiteShadow said:


> Hey Elysian, from how far away was that silhouette shot? Just curious.



Those shots were done from the very last line on the range, although not all the way back, I don't remember how many yards that is.


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 30, 2009)

Just found a couple of piccies floating round:







Airsoft pistol, believe it or not. Wooden grips, full steel and a bundle of fun to shoot at people in a skirmish. 






Sig 226 with Tritium inserts (too light to see them) and again, an airsoft pistol. This is prior to getting a full steel slide/frame and a power upgrade.






Thats the closest you're getting to a pic of me - I have a ghillie and I'm in the bushes stealing your beer


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## JBroll (Mar 30, 2009)

Are you one of the ninjas?

Jeff


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## ShadyDavey (Mar 30, 2009)

JBroll said:


> Are you one of the ninjas?
> 
> Jeff



Yes.

Sort of.

Does sneaking to the fridge for beer count? 

(Sorry, I seem to have this obsession with beer this evening - all we have in the fridge is some Calrsberg and thats like sex on the beach....)


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## Metal Ken (Apr 3, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Just found a couple of piccies floating round:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



See, thats the thing that got me interseted in regular guns - airsoft. I wanted to buy a cool airsoft S&W 500. then i realized for 300$ i could just buy a real gun instead. the rest is history


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## ShadyDavey (Apr 3, 2009)

The only advantage is that with airsoft I could shoot someone and they're paying for the privelege  

I've been involved on and off for a few years, even to the point of organising a large international event at Copehill Down a couple of years back but I totally burnt out with constant organising, forums, and acting as caretaker at an urban site every weeked.

Still got a few bits of kit left but here's the shitter - in the UK you're required to have a reasonable defence under law in order to own an RIF (Replica Imitation Firearm) which essentially means that for the two rifles I want to sell, I have to find an interested party that skirmishes regularly......great, except a lot of the forums don't let you advertise RIF's any more so its all done via word of mouth or a couple of dodgy forums and the whole process is just pathetic. Its not like selling the damn things is illegal, its just that everyone is watching their own back in case you end up selling to someone who isn't a skirmisher as there's no universally-accepted database to store the info on.

The irony is I could buy a Co2 - powered replica for less and its far more dangerous!! For that matter, you could outfit yourself with any number of other real weapons that were far more threatening but no, plastic BB guns that look real get the governments ire with knife crime on the rise. GJ! ;p


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## clnh5 (Apr 3, 2009)

Jesus, that Sig P226 looks exactly like mine, a real one! That revolver looks fucking real too! I'm pretty ignorant to all things airsoft, never realized they made airsoft guns that looked identical to the real ones. Thats kinda scary.


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## ShadyDavey (Apr 3, 2009)

They look exactly the same except they are made of hi-impact plastic in some cases. Then again, most of the guns are absolutely identical to real-steel, and it gets even hard to tell them apart if you fit them with aftermarket parts like metal bodies etc etc. Let me find you a piccie of a pimped-up M4 (well, L119A1) for referrence:







Aimpoint with DR optics, AMPEQ, Surefire - all there. The military simulation nuts use completely original load-outs as per whichever unit they're copying - right down to real Eotech/Aimpoint sights, full body armour etc etc - far too serious for me. I sit in a bush and shoot the posers  

Ok ok...I did a DEVGRU load-out once, here's me with my SR-25 (Copy M3 Scope, AMPEQ, etc etc) and full kit. Helmet is a fake but everything else is real.


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## Zoltta (Apr 3, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> They look exactly the same except they are made of hi-impact plastic in some cases. Then again, most of the guns are absolutely identical to real-steel, and it gets even hard to tell them apart if you fit them with aftermarket parts like metal bodies etc etc. Let me find you a piccie of a pimped-up M4 (well, L119A1) for referrence:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I hate shit like this. As cool as is it for some people that cant figure out how to get real guns, this is just going to far with "toys"


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## ShadyDavey (Apr 3, 2009)

Its not about how to "figure out" how to get real guns, its living in a country where an SR would be utterly impossible to own along with most of the other firearms you take for granted - the UK is pathetically draconian with its gun laws as you well know. 

Yes, it sucks. No, its not your fault....but short of moving there isn't a hell of a lot I can do about it other than enjoy airsofting and profit. Yep, I made a fair chunk of cash from that event - its a shame that I can't run them these days....instead, I get to participate with friends and have a laugh instead. Its no worse than paintballing is it really? 

I admit the full on military gear is ott but hey, you could say that people go ott with a lot of hobbies so if it makes people happy....*shrug*...


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## Zoltta (Apr 3, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Its not about how to "figure out" how to get real guns, its living in a country where an SR would be utterly impossible to own along with most of the other firearms you take for granted - the UK is pathetically draconian with its gun laws as you well know.
> 
> Yes, it sucks. No, its not your fault....but short of moving there isn't a hell of a lot I can do about it other than enjoy airsofting and profit. Yep, I made a fair chunk of cash from that event - its a shame that I can't run them these days....instead, I get to participate with friends and have a laugh instead. Its no worse than paintballing is it really?
> 
> I admit the full on military gear is ott but hey, you could say that people go ott with a lot of hobbies so if it makes people happy....*shrug*...



oh word i keep forgetting not everyone here is from the US haha

As far as "Sniper Rifles" go, i see no difference between those and any other gun. All a sniper rifle can be is a standard hunting rifle with a scope. An SR-25? All that is, is an AR-15 Chambered in 308 so if you are in a country that can own something as simple as an AR or a hunting rifle, you can easily make it into a so called "Sniper Rifle" with some creativity.


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## clnh5 (Apr 3, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Its no worse than paintballing is it really?
> 
> I admit the full on military gear is ott but hey, you could say that people go ott with a lot of hobbies so if it makes people happy....*shrug*...



I agree. I think its kinda corny, but to each his own. I dont think its any different than paintball, granted its alot more over the top. But still, if it makes you happy, more power to ya.

I'm pretty ignorant to all things airsoft, so excuse the ignorance...but can you shoot metal BB's instead of the plastic balls in these guns? If so, that would be a more interesting way to play these "psuedo war games". At least then theres the fear of actually getting hit by someones shot. I've been shot with an airsoft gun from about 6 feet by a friend just fucking around, didnt really hurt that much, getting hit with a paintball hurt alot worse.


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## ShadyDavey (Apr 4, 2009)

Zoltta said:


> oh word i keep forgetting not everyone here is from the US haha
> 
> As far as "Sniper Rifles" go, i see no difference between those and any other gun. All a sniper rifle can be is a standard hunting rifle with a scope. An SR-25? All that is, is an AR-15 Chambered in 308 so if you are in a country that can own something as simple as an AR or a hunting rifle, you can easily make it into a so called "Sniper Rifle" with some creativity.



You're absolutely correct - the problem from the Government's point of view is that you could potentially take any semi-auto rifle and convert it to full auto, after Hungerford thats probably the biggest issue. We can have a "straight pull" semi with the blowback disabled altogether but meh, where's the fun in that - I'd rather have a bolt action.



clnh5 said:


> I agree. I think its kinda corny, but to each his own. I dont think its any different than paintball, granted its alot more over the top. But still, if it makes you happy, more power to ya.
> 
> I'm pretty ignorant to all things airsoft, so excuse the ignorance...but can you shoot metal BB's instead of the plastic balls in these guns? If so, that would be a more interesting way to play these "psuedo war games". At least then theres the fear of actually getting hit by someones shot. I've been shot with an airsoft gun from about 6 feet by a friend just fucking around, didnt really hurt that much, getting hit with a paintball hurt alot worse.



Metal BB's weigh in at around .8g and present problems with the way the internals work on most Airsoft guns - they're too hard and too heavy (mag feed issues). You could use them but of course you're going to loose a load of range because regardless of BB weight its the power (generated by the spring) that provides the umph (Energy = 1/2 mass x Velocity squared) and the nature of the ammunition is secondary. 

Most UK sites allow 500fps (always measured with a .2g regardless of what ammo you use in the field) for sniper rifles - thats 2.3j of Energy. A few US sites allow 550-600fps .....most paintabll markers cash in with 10j+ of energy so thats why it stings a bit more


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## Zoltta (Apr 4, 2009)

So i had another AR15.com NY/NJ Hometown shoot. Check out the album here full of pics. Im the one with the Tan Jacket. Password is "shoot123"

Range pictures

Here is a video. Click on my name for more videos:


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## ShadyDavey (Apr 5, 2009)

hah, thats fucking ubor dude 

I see a Thompson-Contender - thats one of mah favourite pistols ever! Some cool stuff happening for sure.


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## Zoltta (Apr 5, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> hah, thats fucking ubor dude
> 
> I see a Thompson-Contender - thats one of mah favourite pistols ever! Some cool stuff happening for sure.



yeah thats mine, its in 357 Maximum. Fucking amazing cartridge. Handcannons R US.


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## texshred777 (Dec 9, 2012)

I believe it's time to finally purchase a firearm. I've been shooting my whole life before the last few years. My ex was always against having guns in our house, so I never bought anything. 
Before we moved in together I lived at the family ranch and just shot whatever weapon I wanted whenever I wished. 

Anyway, long story short I have narrowed my choices down to a few. All are centerfire semi auto rifles. Hand guns are great, but I don't have a concealed carry license(need to change that) and prefer rifle shooting to hand guns anyway. 

The two I'm primarily looking at are:

M1 Garand, Smith and Wesson M&P 15, and Ruger mini 14.

The M1 can be found refurbed by Uncle Sam for about $600 through the CMP. I feel the M1 has soul, much in the way people see a beat up old Strat as having soul. It's a piece of history and served our troops in WWII. The down side is that it'd be expensive to shoot with regularity and overkill for target shooting. Again, it's no more practical than having a $3000 PRS to piddle with at home but the pride of ownership factor would be high. 

The Smith and Wesson is of course an AR platform. The AR seems to be America's rifle, and the parts/mod choices are so numerous and cross compatible that it's almost the "Barbie for men". I like how easy they are to strip and clean, and the 5.56 NATO isn't too expensive. Not cheap as say, .22LR but not as expensive as others. I also love the iron sights on this weapon. The one I'm looking at has Magpuls which are nice. Flat top upper with a rail allows optics..but I wouldn't bother for awhile. I like iron sights just fine under 250 yards. 

Ruger Mini 14
Good quality. Essentially a scaled down M14(M1A). Haven't shot one of these like I have the AR and Garand so I don't have experience to draw on. If the irons are like the M14/M1A that's a huge plus for me. Those are spectacular.

Others I'd considered but decided not to get due to price were the:

FN Scar 16 or 17.
Springfield M1A.-I REALLY wanted one of these, but the current prices are about $1800 to start.
Any AR from BCM or Daniel Defense.
Sig 556
Bushmaster ACR. I love the concept and idea, but Bushmaster is spotty QC and overall quality wise. For the quality, I'm not spending that kind of money. 

Any other recommendations? I'm not really looking for a different AR make.


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## J7string (Dec 9, 2012)

Get the M1. It is a BAD ASS gun. I love M1 Garand's. It is just... sex of a gun.


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## Bloodbath Salt (Dec 9, 2012)

It depends on what you want it for and what your state's firearm laws are. The recoil of a M1 Garand takes getting used to and aren't very fun to shoot, IMO. It's recoil is higher than other semi's that use the same caliber.
I dislike AR's because of all the bells and whistles, most people end up spending more money "pimping" it out, and is high maintenance and not as reliable as other ones. They also feel wimpy compared to other rifles.
Personally, I prefer Russian modeled rifles, because of dependability and how they look. Although, I've never fired a civilian version of the AK-74 (uses a cartridge similar to the .223 and is known as the "poison bullet"). Just steer away from SKS models that use a free-floating firing pin. If you drop them they can go off, besides other reasons.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 9, 2012)

Ah, my kinda topic.

What are you going to use this weapon for? What are you looking to do with it?

I always suggest that people steer clear of the Mini-14, simply because of parts availability. I always push people towards mid and high end AR's (Noveske, Daniel Defense, Spikes, LWRC, my personal favorite right now BCM, and others), AK's, M1 Garands, and M14/M1A's.

But, if you could tell me what you're looking to use this weapon for, I can help you out. Every gun has a purpose, you just have to see which one will fill your needs.


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## texshred777 (Dec 9, 2012)

Bloodbath Salt said:


> It depends on what you want it for and what your state's firearm laws are. The recoil of a M1 Garand takes getting used to and aren't very fun to shoot, IMO. It's recoil is higher than other semi's that use the same caliber.
> I dislike AR's because of all the bells and whistles, most people end up spending more money "pimping" it out, and is high maintenance and not as reliable as other ones. They also feel wimpy compared to other rifles.
> Personally, I prefer Russian modeled rifles, because of dependability and how they look. Although, I've never fired a civilian version of the AK-74 (uses a cartridge similar to the .223 and is known as the "poison bullet"). Just steer away from SKS models that use a free-floating firing pin. If you drop them they can go off, besides other reasons.


 
I live in Texas, so I'm not too worried about it. Pretty much anything I want I can legally get with the cash. I also work for LE so getting even a class III item wouldn't be difficult. The chief or Sheriff would sign off on the ATF application( I work for LE but not a cop so I'd still have the civi requirements). I'm not paying the cash for something like that, though. 

I've shot the M1 before, although it's been years. Yes, that bastard did kick. It's the least practical gun on my list, for sure. I'm not hunting moose or bear anytime soon. 

I have seen an SKS slamfire due to a faulty pin. That shit was scary. I've shot those a lot. My parents have two of them(one chinese, the other russian I believe) and I was never impressed.

I don't want a tacti-cool AR. I won't be adding rails, lights, foregrips, and a bunch of shit I don't need. I won't even bother with a scope or other optics for at least a few hundred rounds.


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## texshred777 (Dec 9, 2012)

Chickenhawk said:


> Ah, my kinda topic.
> 
> What are you going to use this weapon for? What are you looking to do with it?
> 
> ...


 
I'm mostly using the weapon for a combination of plinking metal on the ranch, hunting and (hopefully never necessary)defense. I also want to attend some carbine training if I go with an AR. 

I know, DD/BCM/LWRC etc are top tier guns. I've checked out the S&W and while not on the level as the others mentioned, it was way better than the DPMS,RRA, or Bushmasters. 

Thanks for the heads up on the Mini 14.


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## Arsenal12 (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm sort of a firearms fan.. had a sweet bushmaster AR-15 with a lot of goodies on it. Also had a Russian SKS that I actually enjoyed shooting more. Awesome rifles and really not that expensive. Only downside is they use 7.62 rounds.. not cheap but man do they do damage.

Tons of pistols too.. Of all of them I like H&k the best, but its obviously personal pref.


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## texshred777 (Dec 9, 2012)

Arsenal12 said:


> I'm sort of a firearms fan.. had a sweet bushmaster AR-15 with a lot of goodies on it. Also had a Russian SKS that I actually enjoyed shooting more. Awesome rifles and really not that expensive. Only downside is they use 7.62 rounds.. not cheap but man do they do damage.
> 
> Tons of pistols too.. Of all of them I like H&k the best, but its obviously personal pref.


 
The 7.62x39's the SKS uses aren't too bad. Not as expensive as 7.62x51 rounds usually. They do have more punch than a 5.56 NATO though.

Pistol wise, I'm partial to the 1911(Colt,Kimber..ANY quality make) and Sig P series.


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## Arsenal12 (Dec 9, 2012)

texshred777 said:


> The 7.62x39's the SKS uses aren't too bad. Not as expensive as 7.62x51 rounds usually. They do have more punch than a 5.56 NATO by far.



man what blew me away about that SKS and that round was just how insanely accurate it was, w/o a scope either. I'll take a pic of it and post up. 1951 Tula.. numbers match.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 9, 2012)

texshred777 said:


> I'm mostly using the weapon for a combination of plinking metal on the ranch, hunting and (hopefully never necessary)defense. I also want to attend some carbine training if I go with an AR.
> 
> I know, DD/BCM/LWRC etc are top tier guns. I've checked out the S&W and while not on the level as the others mentioned, it was way better than the DPMS,RRA, or Bushmasters.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up on the Mini 14.



Get a BCM. In my circle of shooting buddies, theirs 3 BCMs (one EAG, a BCM upper on a Spikes lower, and a BCM upper on a Spikes lower). Fantastic carbines. I'll get one in the next few months. Probably just the upper, and I'll snatch up a cheap lower locally. 

The Garand is a fantastic weapon, but a bit much unless you NEED that much. I've got an AK (Romanian WASR 10/63) that I fucking LOVE, but it'll be my backup once I get the AR built. It always (and I mean ALWAYS) fires. Not the most accurate gun out of the bunch, but hitting an FBI/Q target at 200 meters is cake with the iron sights. I have dropped it in a muddy creek (~12-18 inches of water, inch or so of muddy crap at the bottom), fished it back out and pulled the trigger...it went bang every time. I've never cleaned or lubed it...ever. (5-600 rounds fired).

Can't do that with a Garand or AR. I spent a lot of time dicking around with AR's while I was in the Army, and I absolutely LOVE the platform. It's amazing what can be done, but you have to keep an eye on it. The BCM EAG carbine in the group has been abused. Rarely cleaned, rarely lubed for the past couple hundred rounds. We're beating it to see how it holds up. So far, the only issues we've had were very easily fixed with a few drops of oil. 

We've run into more bad primers than honest weapon malfunctions between the BCM's and AKs. 

Moral of my rant: Get a BCM. You really can't go wrong. If you know how to shoot, taking down deer with the 5.56 is cake. Easier with 7.62, but not difficult with 5.56 at all. 


And don't get a Mini-14. Parts are expensive and sometimes hard to find. The weapon works, but when something breaks you might be out of a weapon for a while.


EDIT:
Speaking of ammo.

We shoot a LOT. Seriously...a LOT. 

7.62x39: I was paying 20 cents a round before the election. Now I'm paying 24 or 25 cents a round.
5.56x45: Around 40 cents a round. Really depends on where we get it, how much at a time (usually 1000rounds at a time), and it's gone up since the election.
.223 Rem: A little less than 5.56 NATO.

And the 5.56x45 vs 7.62x39 argument is crap anymore, considering modern ammunition and ballistics. Just like the 9mm vs .45ACP argument.


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## texshred777 (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm fine with 5.56x45. A deer can be brought down(not legally) with a .22LR if close enough so I'm not worried about that. 

I don't see me attempting to shoot anything other than targets past 500m so I'm not even going to get into the 5.56 vs 7.62 argument.

edit:
To be honest, I'd considered getting the .22LR version of the S&W. I've always enjoyed shooting .22's but I would like to use the rifle at distances past 100m.


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## Nile (Dec 10, 2012)

Tavor.

I love bull pup designs.


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## texshred777 (Dec 10, 2012)

The TAR-21 is a pretty sweet weapon. Too bad it's not currently available for sale in the US that I'm aware of. Even if it were I imagine it would be outside of my budget. 

Bullpup design makes sense for a number of reasons, particularly CQB and urban warfare. Target acquisition is also a bit faster, sight picture easier and changing targets can be faster with a smaller turning radius. Having the internals that much closer to the body is also good for balance.

BUT, I couldn't see it for less than $2000. For that kind of money I'd get a Springfield M1A and call it a day.


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## kerska (Dec 10, 2012)

Personally I would go with the AR. I wanted a cool rifle for my first gun and the first one I bought was an AK-47 just because they're very low maintenance and super easy to strip and clean and what not, but I know that's not in your options.

I just recently bought an AR a couple months ago and I love it. Although I've never shot an M1 or a Mini-14, to me the AR seems the most practical. It's a very versatile weapon as long as you get it chambered for both the 5.56 and .223, plus if you ever do decide to "tacti-cool" it out, pretty much any store that sells guns will have a ton of options for accesories you can throw on there and set it up for whatever you feel like doing with it that weekend.

And just IMO I would avoid a .22. Not for any real legitimate reason but just because I get upset when I'm at the range and someone pulls out a bad ass looking rifle, pulls the trigger and just *clink, clink, clink


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## Kryss (Dec 10, 2012)

all 3 should be solid. i haven't been buying guitars cause i've been on a gun run myself lately.

currently rocking a pimped out saiga12, romanian ak47, hi-point 995. 

atm the saiga and the ak are my babies. i even put an aimpoint on the ak and both are sick. customizing guns is as cool as customizing guitars. shooting on a range is a nice diversion imo from music. it's a different kind of calm.


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## Nonservium (Dec 10, 2012)

Go with the AR, get the big drum clip.


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## -42- (Dec 10, 2012)

Nile said:


> Tavor.
> 
> I love bull pup designs.


Except bullpups almost always have the squishiest triggers. 

On the topic at hand, of the options OP listed, I would almost definitely go for the AR. Super flexible, easy to use, looks scary if anyone ever breaks in, and you can mod it to hell if you ever get the inclination.

It'll be nice seeing an AR not draped in picatinny rails and tons of tactical bullshit.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 10, 2012)

Bullpups are garbage. All of them.

What's your budget, tex? If you can swing it, the BCM EAG Carbine is fucking phenomenal. 

Even better when you realize what all you're getting for the price. I wouldn't mind paying what they ask for the just carbine, but you get all the fancy furniture, optic, and a badass Pelican case (which is like $250 by itself ).

...and a couple of P-mags.


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## texshred777 (Dec 10, 2012)

Bullpups do have practical benefits, but none of those apply to my purposes. Not to mention, I like a nice crisp trigger pull in the 4-5lb range. With all the internals being so far behind the trigger itself, I'm not surprised so many report the "squishy" feeling pull.

My budget's around 1k. If I can find something good for less, that'd be awesome of course. On the other hand I'd pay a bit more if the value is there. 

As far as the tacti-cool element, I'd rather spend the extra cash on ammo than rails, lights, optics, lasers and shit like that. Perhaps a light eventually. I doubt I'll ever even get an eotech or aimpoint. I'd rather get a setup where I can use iron inside 100m and a magnified scope for further. Any recommendations for that? My father used a similar setup on his lever action Winchester 30/30.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 10, 2012)

texshred777 said:


> Bullpups do have practical benefits, but none of those apply to my purposes. Not to mention, I like a nice crisp trigger pull in the 4-5lb range. With all the internals being so far behind the trigger itself, I'm not surprised so many report the "squishy" feeling pull.
> 
> My budget's around 1k. If I can find something good for less, that'd be awesome of course. On the other hand I'd pay a bit more if the value is there.
> 
> As far as the tacti-cool element, I'd rather spend the extra cash on ammo than rails, lights, optics, lasers and shit like that. Perhaps a light eventually. I doubt I'll ever even get an eotech or aimpoint. I'd rather get a setup where I can use iron inside 100m and a magnified scope for further. Any recommendations for that? My father used a similar setup on his lever action Winchester 30/30.



Why do you need magnification beyond 100m? I can hit 300m targets with irons on an AR. 

I'm a big...HUGE fan of cowitness optics. Where the irons line up with the optic. For carbines, I feel magnification is wasted. If you're engaging targets at a distance that makes magnification a necessity, then a carbine is the wrong tool. It's time to transition to a weapon better suited (or outfitted) for that task.

My very-near-future AR build will go against my cowitness fanboyism; folding back up iron sights, and an Aimpoint T-1 Micro (2 moa). Not cheap, but I hate buying substandard shit, and hate buying things twice. Went through the whole 'lets pinch a few pennies here...just to buy what I wanted in the first place after the cheap shit fails' with my Remington 870. Bought a cheap stock, and a cheap mag extension...only to go back to the factory stock (which I'm modifying, like I should have to start with), and a better mag extension. 

That's sort of the problem I'm having with my AK. I know what I want, but it's a matter of justifying the expense (the Aimpoint T-1 Micro costs more than what I paid for the AK itself). But, I know if I try to save money, I'll hate what I get (knowing what I COULD have gotten), and end up buying the good shit anyways...

Regardless: A quality optic (with no magnification) will not hinder your ability to engage targets at distance (200-400m). My goals were to find an optic that allows rapid target acquisition at close range (up to 100m), and still absolutely useable at distance. Aimpoints and Eotech both facilitate that, if you're willing to pay the price ($450+).

I'm not against...or FOR irons, really. I see their purpose. What will you use when (not if) your optic fails? I regularly drill a 6" plate at 200m with my bone stock AK with shitty surplus ammo. More than 80% of the time. I feel a proper optic will help me use that weapon, but only because I fucking DESPISE the stock AK sights. Fucking garbage.

And no...bullpups have no practical purpose. 


EDIT TO ADD:

The BCM EAG carbine is ~$2000. I'm assuming that a bit higher than you were wanting to spend. Let me dig around a bit. I'll find you a 16", mid-length gas system, iron sight AR for under $1000 that doesn't suck balls.



Found some:

Stag Arms (www.stagarms.com)
Spikes Tactical (www.spikestactical.com)
CMMG (www.cmmginc.com)

There's more, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy from any of those three.


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## texshred777 (Dec 10, 2012)

Chickenhawk said:


> Why do you need magnification beyond 100m? I can hit 300m targets with irons on an AR.
> 
> I'm a big...HUGE fan of cowitness optics. Where the irons line up with the optic. For carbines, I feel magnification is wasted. If you're engaging targets at a distance that makes magnification a necessity, then a carbine is the wrong tool. It's time to transition to a weapon better suited (or outfitted) for that task.
> 
> ...



I don't need magnification beyond 100, if I can see it it's not too much of a problem up to 250-300 yards. The problem is id'ing target if there's not a large color contrast. I have color blindness and standard vision issues that can make targets obscure if they're small. Unless the plate were white or other bright colors against a dark backdrop(or vice versa) I would have problems even seeing that 6" plate at 300 yards. 

That's a good point on using carbines past 300 yards. That's something I liked about the ACR concept. Being able to quickly switch out the barrel or caliber without tools sounds nice. Too bad the bushy doesn't stack up to the hype.

I suppose eventually I'll invest in getting an additional 18" upper with match barrel for when the longer range bug hits me. We have a really nice range close to here with 1000 yard stationary and moving targets. Ive never attempted a 1000 yard shot, moving or not but I want a crack at it.

My final on the bullpup, lol.
I like the concept of having a longer barrel and shorter overall weapon. Of course that does put the ejection port and barrel pretty close to the face. I imagine reloading might take longer as well. Perhaps someone on here who served the Israeli military could chip in on their experience with it.

Edit: if you find something I appreciate the look. I hear Spikes Tactical make good weapons and are around my budget. Any experience with them?

Double edit: I'm admittedly an iron sight fan. They do require stronger aiming and shooting fundamentals but a good set will rarely fail you.


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## BornToLooze (Dec 10, 2012)

Bloodbath Salt said:


> It depends on what you want it for and what your state's firearm laws are.



It's Texas, you are legally required to own at least 5.

But I say the Mini 14 since I like mine. I haven't shot any of the others you listed. But it's pretty accurate and not really any recoil.






But honestly, I say if you want to get a rifle, get a Thompson, nothing beats the badassness of a Tommy gun.


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## The Reverend (Dec 10, 2012)

The worst thing about being a pro-gun control, card-carrying Democrat in Texas is that I enjoy guns. Immensely. 

The first gun I ever shot was a poorly maintained M1 Garand. In hindsight, I would've slapped myself, and the guy who let me shoot it, in the face before the butt of the gun did. I'm lucky I didn't hurt myself worse, or hurt anyone else. I think that incident biased me towards old guns. I'm one of the overkill AR guys . I constantly tell my dad to add more shit to his rifle just so I can shoot it at our deer lease.

EDIT: This post contains nothing of merit to Tex's questions. Oh well.


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## texshred777 (Dec 10, 2012)

It's all good Rev. 

If I wanted an overkill AR I'd get a Beowolf..


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 10, 2012)

texshred777 said:


> I don't need magnification beyond 100, if I can see it it's not too much of a problem up to 250-300 yards. The problem is id'ing target if there's not a large color contrast. I have color blindness and standard vision issues that can make targets obscure if they're small. Unless the plate were white or other bright colors against a dark backdrop(or vice versa) I would have problems even seeing that 6" plate at 300 yards.
> 
> That's a good point on using carbines past 300 yards. That's something I liked about the ACR concept. Being able to quickly switch out the barrel or caliber without tools sounds nice. Too bad the bushy doesn't stack up to the hype.
> 
> ...



Spikes = 

I can't say anything bad about Spikes, as all my experiences have been positive. I'm sure they have their drawbacks, but I never experienced them. I'm in the market for a higher-tier AR than Spikes, but I wouldn't pass one up if I found the right deal.

Ever used a bullpup? Like, actually run one through it's paces in a tactical setting? I have...they suck 
If you found different, please let me know. I WANT to like bullpups like I did before actually having used a few.

For all the money I'd spend on a bullpup I could get a proper CQB carbine: an LWRC PSD.







Go to the local shop (not McBribes), and fiddle around with a few AR's. See what you like. Then go home, and order a BCM.


Whatever you end up getting, get a Magpul AFG for it. Seriously. I have one on my 870, will be putting one on my AK when the new foregrip gets here, and the AR will have one. Hell, If I could figure out how to put one on my 1911 and Glocks I would


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## Kodee_Kaos (Dec 10, 2012)

On your choices:

M1A: Powerful gun with an excellent track record. Keep in mind the weight of the gun, ammo, and of course the price of both. That is a $1500+ gun in stock configuration, and the cost to stockpile ammo isn't going to be cheap. However, 308 is a very serious round with excellent range, and could be used for big game hunting, something where I think the other choices fall short.

Mini-14: Meh. All I have to say. Ruger products are sort of intermediate quality. Parts will also be less plentiful than that of an AR.

AR-15: *Very *versatile weapon. I'd go with a mid-length gas system, as they tend to be more reliable than a carbine length system(or a rifle length if you go with a 18"+ barrel). Piston sytems are cool, but they will add a lot of front-end bulk. Also keep in mind, a .22lr conversion kit can be had for about $250. You can swap out an AR to .22 in about 30 seconds and BAM, exact same optics, trigger pull, and ergonomics.

SIG 556: Good choice. They are similar to an AK in that they have a gas piston system, and the charging handle is right on the bolt carrier, which is nice. Not much more expensive than an entry-level AR. Supposed to be extremely accurate. No .22lr kit is available for it AFAIK, but you can get a .22lr clone.


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## Sicarius (Dec 10, 2012)

Wait a couple of months for the gun shops to stop fear mongering, and get something.

If you're thinking of getting a distance/plinker AR, and you like the 22, get the S&W, people seem to really like them, and if you want to do distance stuff, just get a fast twist barrel and see how your gun takes to Aguila SSS rounds.

If you want to shoot current production ammo in an M1 you'll need to get an adjustable gas valve to shoot regular .30-06 you can get anywhere. They're cheap, you're just going to have to take the time to set it up. 

If you want something fun, cheap, and accurate as shit, just get a Mosin Nagant.

Ammo is usually $12 for a package of 20 surplus corrosive ammo. There's modern current production, it costs a little more. I'm actually thinking of letting my Mosin go to a coworker; the 7.62x54R is a bit much for me, and I don't have anywhere to shoot it.


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## texshred777 (Dec 10, 2012)

No I've never gone through any tactical live fire training with a bullpup. Only shot an FN for a bit in a range setting.

The closest thing to a tactical training exercise I've done(and I am acknowledging it is not the same at all) is an active shooter, shoot/don't shoot simulation I did at work. It's basically a trailer with a really large screen and an airsoft gun 10 feet away. Said air soft gun is aimed at you by someone behind a screen. It's synced up with the software so when a combatant shoots at you the gun fires. You use either a glock/AR/shotgun with an electric firing system. 

The scenarios ranged from traffic stops to a school shooting with numerous combatants. Funny thing is I scored higher than all but one of the officers. He was a marine/Iraq vet. I however am not an officer or former military(I tried but DQ'd due to a Malignant Hyperthermia history). It was amazing watching how poorly many of the officers shot and they'd get riddled with 6mm pellets. I had a hell of a time doing it, even confirming kills after shooting an assailant. Not Kosher for an officer, but again I'm not an officer. The guy running the sim nearly swallowed his chew from laughing. 

The AR they had was a DPMS I believe. The trigger on that sucked. Hard.


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## Philligan (Dec 10, 2012)

Being Canadian, this thread fascinates me.


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## McKay (Dec 10, 2012)

Philligan said:


> Being Canadian, this thread fascinates me.



I thought Canadian gun laws weren't too bad?


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## yellowv (Dec 10, 2012)

Go AR. M1's are nice, but not as fun to shoot. Mini 14's are crap. Not nearly as accurate as an AR or M1 and too expensive for what it is. I would build a lower and go Spikes or BCM for an upper. AR's are just so damn modular. So many parts out there to build exactly what you want. Here is mine.


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## Arsenal12 (Dec 10, 2012)

Oh so now you gonna waltz in here and get all tactical, huh?


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## texshred777 (Dec 10, 2012)

Yellowv
I like that handguard. That bolt release is different than what I usually see. I'm assuming that's for being able to tap it with the trigger finger? 

I'd considered going the build route, as I'd get to accumulate quality stuff a piece at a time.


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## MetalGravy (Dec 10, 2012)

The Reverend said:


> The worst thing about being a pro-gun control, card-carrying Democrat in Texas is that I enjoy guns. Immensely.
> 
> The first gun I ever shot was a poorly maintained M1 Garand. In hindsight, I would've slapped myself, and the guy who let me shoot it, in the face before the butt of the gun did. I'm lucky I didn't hurt myself worse, or hurt anyone else. I think that incident biased me towards old guns. I'm one of the overkill AR guys . I constantly tell my dad to add more shit to his rifle just so I can shoot it at our deer lease.
> 
> EDIT: This post contains nothing of merit to Tex's questions. Oh well.





There's a place for you, my friend. 

The Liberal Gun Club


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## leandroab (Dec 11, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkvBRQ8wkRM

It fucking queefes.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 11, 2012)




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## yellowv (Dec 11, 2012)

I would recommend building your lower. Any quality forged lower is as good as another. You pay more for logo's, better fit and finish, etc. but as long as it's an in spec forged lower any one is as good as any other. You can find a good lower for $100 or less if you look. For parts kits I like CMT/Stag and Daniel Defense. Both are quality kits with good stock triggers. A lower is super easy to assemble. Plus you can put whatever stock, trigger guard, etc on that you want. Always go Mil-Spec over commercial parts. As for the upper I am also a BCM guy. Reasonable prices and top tier parts. Spikes is also great and a little cheaper, but IMO BCM is a step up. Daniel Defense is also top tier. If you wanna go ultra top end there is also Noveske, but IMO your just paying for the name. Quality is top notch, but you pay for it. Mine is a carbine, but I would go middy if I were you. I built mine while I was still on a M4 kick. The middy will be a little smoother, although my carbine with a heavy buffer and comp is smooth as silk and operates flawlessly. As you can see I like Magpul. My rifle is covered in the stuff. Great parts at reasonable prices that just flat out work. That bolt release lever is a Magpul BAD lever which as you figured out allows you to drop the bolt with your trigger finger. I am not a fan of the Magpul AFG on carbines or shorties. Way too cramped. On a middy or rifle length handguard they work great. I also have some IWC stuff on my rifle ie. front sling mount (rear is Noveske) light mount, handstop, etc. IWC is also a great company. The CEO is a friend of mine and he and his company are good people. Light is Surefire and the sight is Eotech. My rear sight is a BCM marked Troy. My rifle has undergone many changes and I think I finally have the perfect setup for me.... for now. If you have any specific parts questions or anything just ask. I have a good amount of AR experience.


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## yellowv (Dec 11, 2012)

I actually consulted on IWC's Flashlight mount for the Magpul MOE handguard so my buddy at IWC made me a custom one.


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## Furtive Glance (Dec 11, 2012)

Philligan said:


> Being Canadian, this thread fascinates me.



Came here to post the same thing. Very interesting!


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## Philligan (Dec 11, 2012)

McKay said:


> I thought Canadian gun laws weren't too bad?



The laws are kinda stiff (it takes years of regular effort to be able to legally own a handgun) but it's more just like the whole culture, I guess. I play video games and think guns are pretty bad ass, but actually owning one isn't really something that would ever enter my mind. 

I just find it really interesting that these look like what I see in movies and games, and you guys talk about owning them so casually.


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## texshred777 (Dec 12, 2012)

Philligan said:


> The laws are kinda stiff (it takes years of regular effort to be able to legally own a handgun) but it's more just like the whole culture, I guess. I play video games and think guns are pretty bad ass, but actually owning one isn't really something that would ever enter my mind.
> 
> I just find it really interesting that these look like what I see in movies and games, and you guys talk about owning them so casually.



Murica.


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## texshred777 (Dec 12, 2012)

yellowv said:


> I would recommend building your lower. Any quality forged lower is as good as another. You pay more for logo's, better fit and finish, etc. but as long as it's an in spec forged lower any one is as good as any other. You can find a good lower for $100 or less if you look. For parts kits I like CMT/Stag and Daniel Defense. Both are quality kits with good stock triggers. A lower is super easy to assemble. Plus you can put whatever stock, trigger guard, etc on that you want. Always go Mil-Spec over commercial parts. As for the upper I am also a BCM guy. Reasonable prices and top tier parts. Spikes is also great and a little cheaper, but IMO BCM is a step up. Daniel Defense is also top tier. If you wanna go ultra top end there is also Noveske, but IMO your just paying for the name. Quality is top notch, but you pay for it. Mine is a carbine, but I would go middy if I were you. I built mine while I was still on a M4 kick. The middy will be a little smoother, although my carbine with a heavy buffer and comp is smooth as silk and operates flawlessly. As you can see I like Magpul. My rifle is covered in the stuff. Great parts at reasonable prices that just flat out work. That bolt release lever is a Magpul BAD lever which as you figured out allows you to drop the bolt with your trigger finger. I am not a fan of the Magpul AFG on carbines or shorties. Way too cramped. On a middy or rifle length handguard they work great. I also have some IWC stuff on my rifle ie. front sling mount (rear is Noveske) light mount, handstop, etc. IWC is also a great company. The CEO is a friend of mine and he and his company are good people. Light is Surefire and the sight is Eotech. My rear sight is a BCM marked Troy. My rifle has undergone many changes and I think I finally have the perfect setup for me.... for now. If you have any specific parts questions or anything just ask. I have a good amount of AR experience.



I've actually been looking at getting an AR with 18" barrel. 

I hadn't seen that BAD lever setup before. I like it and definitely want one on my rifle.


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## yellowv (Dec 12, 2012)

Not really many choices out there with an 18" bbl other than like the expensive special purpose and recce stuff. 14.5 and 16 are the most common. IMO really no need for the extra length unless you want to do a real precision target or sniper build. A 14.5-16" bbl will reach out over 300-400 yards no problem and will handle better. Also pretty much any good AR platform is more accurate than 99% of shooters. The AR is inherently a very accurate design. If I was building one right now I would go 14.5" middy. Mine is a 16" and IMO the main advantage to the 16" is that you don't have to have a permanently attached muzzle device. With the 14.5 it has to be a device long enough to make the bbl 16" total to meet federal regulation and it has to be pinned and welded.


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## texshred777 (Dec 12, 2012)

16" is the minimum Id really want. 

The fact is I do want to start doing longer range and match work. I also want to be able to go do some of the tactical shooting training available. My father and I are talking about doing one together.

I'll probably start with a 16" upper and later pick up an upper with 18" bb. Or just pick up another barrel and handguard...decisions decisions.

Edit: Obviously I'm not a ground troop who would need to be able to switch from a tactical 16" upper with dot optics to the 18" with scope quickly, but the convenience factor is great nonetheless.


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## yellowv (Dec 12, 2012)

If your going to want to swap you'll need two uppers. There no quick switching bbls like in the movies. Get a 16" and you will see that you have no need for an 18". The amount of added accuracy and velocity that 2" will add is negligible to all but an expert shooter. Carbine courses are going to be full of guys using 14.5s. Your not going to see anybody with an 18" bbl in those courses.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 12, 2012)

here a link to one of mine 
Doublestar Corp. | Be Victorious


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## Painhawg (Dec 12, 2012)

Fn-Fal, Mauser 8mm, and a daiwu AR. Look into them. My FN is a great all around rifle, not to mention it's as sexy as it gets.


edit That Doublestar 3gun is a sexy beast!

re-edit, The Doublestar


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 12, 2012)

yellowv said:


> If your going to want to swap you'll need two uppers. There no quick switching bbls like in the movies. Get a 16" and you will see that you have no need for an 18". The amount of added accuracy and velocity that 2" will add is negligible to all but an expert shooter. Carbine courses are going to be full of guys using 14.5s. Your not going to see anybody with an 18" bbl in those courses.



All the serious 3-gun shooters are running 18s or 20s. Longer barrel with a rifle length gas system, surefire brake and a forward grip mounted all the way forward.

Don't stand next to those guys. The brake will feel like a fucking grenade going off. 

Will you see those guys at a carbine class, when they technically are using a rifle? Possibly. Really depends on who's class your taking. Any of the Magpul classes (with Costa) will have guys with REALLY short weapons, and guys running rifles.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 12, 2012)

Chickenhawk said:


> All the serious 3-gun shooters are running 18s or 20s. Longer barrel with a rifle length gas system, surefire brake and a forward grip mounted all the way forward.
> 
> Don't stand next to those guys. The brake will feel like a fucking grenade going off.
> 
> Will you see those guys at a carbine class, when they technically are using a rifle? Possibly. Really depends on who's class your taking. Any of the Magpul classes (with Costa) will have guys with REALLY short weapons, and guys running rifles.


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## texshred777 (Dec 13, 2012)

So I decided to go the build route. 
Here's what I'm looking at so far.

Upper
BCM 16" mid length upper assembly
-not sure exactly which one yet, but I want it flat top 
BCM Gunfighter Charging handle
Magpul MOE midlength handguard 
Magpul BAD lever(had to steal that one from yellowv)
Magpul MBUS rear sight


Lower
Spikes Tactical or Aero stripped Lower
Daniel Defense Lower Parts Kit
Magpul MOE Stock(black)
Spike's mil spec buffer tube kit.

How does this look so far?


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 13, 2012)

sounds like a good start to a good build,good job...


now texshred777 go hang out at arfcom and get BRD.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 13, 2012)

texshred777 said:


> So I decided to go the build route.
> Here's what I'm looking at so far.
> 
> Upper
> ...





It'll shoot.

Save a few pennies and get the cheapest stripped lower you can find. That's what I'm probably going to end up doing. BCM/LaRue/Noveske upper, cheapo stripped lower, good parts kit.

EDIT:

Stay away from arfcom. Instead read up on m4carbine.net and ar15.com.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 13, 2012)

Chickenhawk said:


> It'll shoot.
> 
> Save a few pennies and get the cheapest stripped lower you can find. That's what I'm probably going to end up doing. BCM/LaRue/Noveske upper, cheapo stripped lower, good parts kit.
> 
> ...


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## texshred777 (Dec 13, 2012)

Oh, I HAVE been reading up on ar15.com and m4carbine.net. Those are the first places I saw the assembled BCM upper/build a lower recommendation.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 14, 2012)




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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 14, 2012)




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## yellowv (Dec 14, 2012)

arfcom is just a nickname for ar.15.com. Like Chickenhawk said look for the cheapest stripped lower you can find. They all do the same thing. There are deals to be had right now. The other day one place had a lower for $79.


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## texshred777 (Dec 14, 2012)

Yeah, the Aero stripped lower I saw was $79. They get good enough reviews as well.

Ok, so this is the upper assembly I'm looking at right now. 

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-BFH-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Light-Weight-p/bcm-urg-mid-16lw%20bfh%20vtrx11.htm
Things have changed, and my $1000 budget..well, it's a little higher now.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 14, 2012)

yellowv said:


> arfcom is just a nickname for ar.15.com. Like Chickenhawk said look for the cheapest stripped lower you can find. They all do the same thing. There are deals to be had right now. The other day one place had a lower for $79.



Yea, I know about barfcom 

Any stripped lower for under $100 is a decent deal.


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## texshred777 (Dec 14, 2012)

Although I'm also kicking around just going with this one and the Magpul handguard. 

BCM BFH 16" Mid Length Upper Receiver Group


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 14, 2012)

barfcom GD it`ll leave SCARS.....


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## texshred777 (Dec 14, 2012)

I can't afford a SCAR. Well, I'm not going to spend the cash for one anyway..

So other than Aimpoint, Eotech, or Trijicon what are good brands to check out for optics?


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 14, 2012)

Aimpoint T-1 Micro. 2 MOA.

There really isn't any other optic. Maybe an Aimpoint PRO, or an Eotech 512.

Nah...T-1 Micro.

Expensive, but worth every penny. I'm not a fan of stuff I can't rely on, so I have no comment on anything of lesser quality. No offense, just what I'm in the market for, and what I have experience with.


MAAAYYYYBBBEEE a Burris Fastfire II, or Leupold Delta Point. But they are all a bit pricey, and for not much more money you can get a MUCH better optic (T-1).

What kind of price range you looking at for an optic?


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## texshred777 (Dec 14, 2012)

I was hoping to find something in the $300 range that's good. Even if it's not Aimpoint T-1 good.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 15, 2012)

I really don`t run optics on my carbines anymore,so but I really liked the EOTECH


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## yellowv (Dec 15, 2012)

The T-1 micro is an awesome piece. I went with Eotech on mine bc my bad eyes just like it better. Otherwise I would have run the T1 for sure. I have thought about switching more than once.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 15, 2012)

yellowv said:


> The T-1 micro is an awesome piece. I went with Eotech on mine bc my bad eyes just like it better. Otherwise I would have run the T1 for sure. I have thought about switching more than once.



Valid point. Some people with astigmatism can't run the T-1 with both eyes open (the proper way for a lot of situations), and some of the Eotechs work better for them.

Here's some optics that won't really break the bank (depending on your financial abilities, and views on optics):

Leupold Delta Point 7.5 MOA: $400
Leupold DeltaPoint Reflex Sight, 7.5 MOA Delta Reticle, Cross Slot Mount, Matte Finish, Warranty

Leupold Delta Point 3.5 MOA: $380
Leupold DeltaPoint Reflex Sight 3.5 MOA Dot Matte Finish

Aimpoint PRO: $480
Aimpoint PRO Patrol Rifle Red Dot Sight 2 MOA Dot Black Finish 12841

Burris Fast Fire II: $200
Burris FastFire II Red Dot Reflex Sight 4 MOA Dot CR2032 Battery Picatinny Mount

Personally, I wouldn't mind any of those. I greatly prefer the T-1 and Eotech, but I wouldn't bitch too much with a Delta Point or Burris.

Actually, I might end up getting a Fast Fire II for my AK, but I hear a lot of talk about it not being parallax-free under 50 meters, which is a huge problem for me...since 75% of the rounds I fire from the AK are closer than 50 meters. 

If you're not expecting to do much "rapid acquisition defensive/offensive/tactical" shooting, then being parallax free might not be a huge concern to you, so the Burris would work just fine. All depends on what you need / want.



EDIT: Actually, buy the Burris. Then tell me if it's worth a shit


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## yellowv (Dec 15, 2012)

Yep I have astigmatism so the Eotech indeed works better for me.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 15, 2012)

yellowv said:


> Yep I have astigmatism so the Eotech indeed works better for me.



I've got astigmatism, but I've been able to run T-1s just fine (so far). I'm sure in time my eyes will get worse, and I'll have to switch to Eotech.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Dec 15, 2012)

mr_rainmaker said:


>


Sorry I'm not adding anything useful, but this pic reminded me of how much I love ghillie suits and want one to freak people out with.

EDIT:
It turns out I _*DO*_ have something (kinda) relevant to add:


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 15, 2012)




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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 15, 2012)

this one will freak everyone out


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## texshred777 (Dec 15, 2012)

I've got a pretty bad astigmatism in my left eye, so vision in that eye sucks. Luckily, my right eye is 20/20 and again luckily my dominant eye. 

I do plan on doing tactical shooting, whether events or classes(both, likely). I would prefer something that allows me to keep both eyes open, I pretty much always shoot that way. 

I've seen Vortex mentioned on some of the AR forums I've lurked recently. Are they any good? I know, buy once...


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 16, 2012)

texshred777 said:


> I've got a pretty bad astigmatism in my left eye, so vision in that eye sucks. Luckily, my right eye is 20/20 and again luckily my dominant eye.
> 
> I do plan on doing tactical shooting, whether events or classes(both, likely). I would prefer something that allows me to keep both eyes open, I pretty much always shoot that way.
> 
> I've seen Vortex mentioned on some of the AR forums I've lurked recently. Are they any good? I know, buy once...



I've heard good things about the Vortex Strikefire, but I've never used one, or personally know anyone that has. Everything I've read has been good, though.

On the same token, I've read a lot of good about the Burris, as long as being parallax free under 50 isn't a concern 

Personally, I'd build the gun, and run it with irons for a while. Get used to it (hell, I've done a LOT of training with irons...even did a 15 month deployment with strictly irons), then decide on what optic you want.

Maybe after you spend some time with the gun, your wants might change (probably not, you've got a great gun built in your head), and you might find a few extra bucks to open up your optics choices.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 16, 2012)

well i ya got the funds go ACOG!!!!


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## texshred777 (Dec 16, 2012)

Chickenhawk said:


> I've heard good things about the Vortex Strikefire, but I've never used one, or personally know anyone that has. Everything I've read has been good, though.
> 
> On the same token, I've read a lot of good about the Burris, as long as being parallax free under 50 isn't a concern
> 
> ...


 
That's exactly what I plan to do. I'm honestly fine with irons so that won't be a problem. I'm not saying optics aren't great, but I don't feel the need for them. 

I'm ready to start picking up parts now, unfortunately most places are out of stock of stripped lowers and the Daniel Defense LPK I want. Hell, it seems parts in general are hard to come by right now(except of course for furniture and shit like that)-particularly the BCM stuff. The more I've looked them up, the more I'm sold on them.

edit: And speaking of parts, I've decided to NOT go with a completed upper. If I'm going to build my AR, I'm going to build it all the way. I won't save much(or any) money doing it as such, but it's not all about saving money. With the budget I've given myself to build, I could buy a damn Daniel Defense from Buds and call it a day.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 16, 2012)

texshred777 said:


> That's exactly what I plan to do. I'm honestly fine with irons so that won't be a problem. I'm not saying optics aren't great, but I don't feel the need for them.
> 
> I'm ready to start picking up parts now, unfortunately most places are out of stock of stripped lowers and the Daniel Defense LPK I want. Hell, it seems parts in general are hard to come by right now(except of course for furniture and shit like that)-particularly the BCM stuff. The more I've looked them up, the more I'm sold on them.
> 
> edit: And speaking of parts, I've decided to NOT go with a completed upper. If I'm going to build my AR, I'm going to build it all the way. I won't save much(or any) money doing it as such, but it's not all about saving money. With the budget I've given myself to build, I could buy a damn Daniel Defense from Buds and call it a day.



I like your style 

Everybody is out of stock. My original idea was to buy a complete carbine from BCM, but they're going to be filling back orders for quite a while. It's the nature of the business; scare people with electing a democrat, then scare them some more with talk of banning guns, and the makers make a lot of money.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 17, 2012)

_Cerberus owns _
Bushmaster, DPMS, Remington, Marlin, H&R, Dakota
Ammunition - Remington
Silencers - AAC

now look at how many politicians have stock in that company....


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## texshred777 (Dec 17, 2012)

Fucking Illusive Man..


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 17, 2012)




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## texshred777 (Dec 17, 2012)

mr_rainmaker said:


>



Illusive Man - Mass Effect Wiki - Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, Mass Effect 3, walkthroughs and more.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 17, 2012)

cool I`m give that a try.



on a differnt note you seen the price of Pmags today.


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 17, 2012)

check out the panic price


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## texshred777 (Dec 17, 2012)

Jesus, it was what $13 or $14 yesterday?


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 17, 2012)

just wait a week...


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## yellowv (Dec 17, 2012)

The decent dealers still have normal prices, but are out of everything. Glad I have a whole bunch of mags. This is going to throw the whole AR world into a spiral for quite some time. Parts and ammo are going to be hard to come by and the prices are going to go way up with the demand. If i were you I would hold off for a while. That said if you still do it, I would recommend against building your own upper. A monkey can build a lower, but an upper requires specialized tools and more know how. Unless you plan on doing various builds it's really not worth it.


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## yellowv (Dec 18, 2012)

Primaryarms.com has a limited amount of p mags in stock at normal prices.


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## yellowv (Dec 18, 2012)

Hey dude Aero lowers 99 shipped. Get it quick AR15 Stripped Lower Receiver | Aeroprecision


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## mr_rainmaker (Dec 18, 2012)

ya better jump on those lowers quick.


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## Blake1970 (Jan 23, 2013)

Picked this baby up this morning


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## avenger (Jan 24, 2013)

Why does everyone want to buy guns? Are you going to shoot some schools up? 

ERAGAHGAWD!


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## Transmissions (Jan 28, 2013)

So, I've been thinking about purchasing my first gun for a while now.
I live in the US, and we're having some turmoil over the issue, and I
really want to get something before prices skyrocket and availability 
drops. I don't want to make this thread about gun rights, so please, 
keep those comments to yourself. What I am asking is what type of 
gun would you guys recommend/what are you into? 
Personally, a Ruger .22 semi auto seems like it's going to be my choice, seeing as it's semi-auto, and a small caliber, I could learn to shoot a real rifle, rather than just my pellet gun. Other than the Ruger, I wanted a .308 Winchester sporter, but they are about $900 vs the Ruger Sporter or some line of semi-auto that's $370
So, what would you guys recommend?


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## flexkill (Jan 28, 2013)

thee is a huge gunthread man...search it.


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## mr_rainmaker (Jan 28, 2013)

a .22 bolt action will do the same job as a semi-auto,great trainer till you get a bigger rifle,but with the currant panic going on you can expect to pay double to triple or more for a semi that you want,its a tool like a fork not some WMD Deathray like some would have you believe.

before the panic you could have gotten a nice bolt action pretty cheap like the steven`s rifles for around 300bucks,you might just wait for a semi auto till you aquire the safety/skill for a good semi rifle/pistol


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## skeels (Jan 28, 2013)

I'm hoping the current bump in gun prices will bring down the price of swords.

Just sayin'....


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## Transmissions (Jan 28, 2013)

Yeah, the panic is kind of killing me right now. .22's are pretty low power, I know that. A bolt action should be fine for now


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## mr_rainmaker (Jan 28, 2013)

Transmissions said:


> Yeah, the panic is kind of killing me right now. .22's are pretty low power, I know that. A bolt action should be fine for now




don`t underestimate a little .22 even at 1100 yards fps is still over 300...
still enough to get the job done with shotplacement.


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 28, 2013)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/220602-gun-shopping.html

<-- SSO's Resident Gun Nut.

What are you wanting to do with this rifle? 

My 9 year old daughter had a Savage Cub (.22lr, bolt action) as her first rifle. I wouldn't suggest that to an adult, since it's so small 

She now has a Ruger 10/22 (.22lr, semi-auto). Fantastic fucking gun. We've put a couple thousand rounds through it without any sort of lube or any cleaning whatsoever. More than accurate enough for a plinker, and I wouldn't hesitate to hunt varmints and small-game with it. 

If you're wanting to be accurate at any sort of distance, you'll need something bigger (or a .17 HMR, but that almost falls into a specialty category). .308 is a great round. Plenty of stopping power against anything you'll run up against in North America, and it's a common round. 30-06 is also a great round. I know a LOT of people that swear by the 30-06. Personally, I lean towards .308 (7.62x51mm), since it's a NATO round, and availability is an factor for me.

If you were wanting to buy a firearm before prices skyrocketed, you might have missed the boat by a few weeks. I bought my 10/22 a few months ago for less than $250 out the door, brand new. I see them going used for over $350 now. The only rifles that don't seem to have been affected too much by the panic are bolt actions in .300 winmag, .308, and 30-06. 

Soooo, before I can suggest a rifle, I gotta know: What are you wanting to do with it?


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## texshred777 (Jan 28, 2013)

mr_rainmaker said:


> don`t underestimate a little .22 even at 1100 yards fps is still over 300...
> still enough to get the job done with shotplacement.


 
Agreed. A .22 is deadly beyond the range it can accurately be fired.


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## Ocara-Jacob (Jan 28, 2013)

Everything that Chickenhawk said about the Ruger 10/22 is absolutely true, it's a fantastic weapon, great for anything from target shooting to rodent hunting. I went squirrel hunting with it a couple weeks ago, and it performed excellently.


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## leandroab (Jan 28, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> My 9 year old daughter had a Savage Cub (.22lr, bolt action) as her first rifle.



:/


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 28, 2013)

I never really enjoyed shooting rifles as its too easy IMO. Shooting handguns is a lot more enjoyable. I have no clue what you can get down south compared to here.


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 28, 2013)

leandroab said:


> :/



What? 'Her' rifles are rifles that either her grandfather or myself have purchased, and keep. It's not like I handed her a rifle and said "here ya go.", although I have no doubt in my mind she would be perfectly fine with it. She was raised properly, and knows how to handle a firearm safely. 

As a matter of fact, when we go shooting with other families, she is the one that teaches her friends what to do, and what not to do while the parents supervise. Every single visit to the range (which is actually my father in laws farm) begins with a safety brief. Everybody knows how to be safe, but it's never a bad thing to refresh memories, and the 9 yo has been the one to give those briefings, lately.



Stealthdjentstic said:


> I never really enjoyed shooting rifles as its too easy IMO. Shooting handguns is a lot more enjoyable. I have no clue what you can get down south compared to here.



Ever try hitting a 6" plate at 1000 meters with a .308? Ever try doing it 5 times in a row?

Ever try engaging a moving target at an unknown distance? Shooting a rifle can be extremely challenging. If you're at a public range, sitting on a bench, hitting a target at 100 yards...then yes, that's boring as fuck.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 28, 2013)

Not everyone lives in the middle of nowhere though man. Driving 3-4 hours to somewhere where we can shoot like that isnt practical.

The closest decent gun range here is like..a 1-2 hour drive from me and aren't all those things you listed way more difficult with a handgun anyways?


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## Transmissions (Jan 28, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/220602-gun-shopping.html
> 
> <-- SSO's Resident Gun Nut.
> 
> ...


I want to do everything from learning how to shoot, I'm a certified hunter, though I've only been once, went pheasant hunting a couple years ago and I want to get back into it. I have never shot an actual rifle other than pellet guns though, so I'd really like to give that a go for deer season later this year. Also, I'm a bit of a noid, so anything from home defense to the commies coming and stealing California, which is also what makes the .308 preferable p


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 29, 2013)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Not everyone lives in the middle of nowhere though man. Driving 3-4 hours to somewhere where we can shoot like that isnt practical.



Understandable. I don't have a lane set up on the farm for over 600 meters. It sucks 



Transmissions said:


> I want to do everything from learning how to shoot, I'm a certified hunter, though I've only been once, went pheasant hunting a couple years ago and I want to get back into it. I have never shot an actual rifle other than pellet guns though, so I'd really like to give that a go for deer season later this year. Also, I'm a bit of a noid, so anything from home defense to the commies coming and stealing California, which is also what makes the .308 preferable p



So, you need a few guns 

.22 for plinking
12ga with 24+" barrel for pheasant
.308 for deer
either 12ga with 18" barrel for home defense, or a decent handgun.

I don't think I'd want to use a bolt-action rifle, with a high-power scope in a home defense situation.  Might have to grab the 30-06 and see what it's like.


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## Transmissions (Jan 29, 2013)

Basically. Youre right, a rifle isnt going to do shit in home haha. I could get a nice shotgun cheap too, but i dont really desire one at all.but do you know of any good and affordable .308s? like $5-$600 max? Else im just going to get a 10/.22 because of the price


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 29, 2013)

Transmissions said:


> Basically. Youre right, a rifle isnt going to do shit in home haha. I could get a nice shotgun cheap too, but i dont really desire one at all.but do you know of any good and affordable .308s? like $5-$600 max? Else im just going to get a 10/.22 because of the price



I didn't say a rifle or .308 wasn't great for home defense weapon. I'd trade my shotgun for an M1A or FAL for home defense in a second. I also rotate my shotgun and AK (7.62x39mm) out for bedside duty. I wouldn't want a bolt-action for home defense. Important difference. 

Get a 10/22. They can be had for fairly cheap, ammo is cheap (hovering around 5-6 cents a round right now. Was less than 4 cents a couple months ago), and the little sombitch is reliable. 

If you get real froggy, you can get the new Takedown version. I went with the tried and true, plain wood stock 10/22 Carbine. 

The only hickup is finding the 25rnd mags right now. I don't truck Butler Creek, so I bought the actual Ruger BX-25s. Think I paid less than $50 for two of them, but prices have jumped quite a bit.


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## texshred777 (Jan 29, 2013)

Yeah, the Ruger 10/22 and the Marlin 60 are both great little rifles. I've been shooting the Marlin since I was about 6. Pretty accurate, very reliable and again the ammo is cheap.


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## MetalGravy (Jan 29, 2013)

You could always get one of these

Zip Factory The Future of Fun


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Jan 29, 2013)

leandroab said:


> :/



My dad bought me a 22 when I was six.


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 29, 2013)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> My dad bought me a 22 when I was six.



My 9 year old had her Savage Cub .22 when she was 5 or 6. Our 4 year old has a bb gun, and she'll be getting the Savage Cub .22 on her 5th birthday. Hopefully our 9 year old will have grown out of her 10/22 and moved on to the ARs and AKs by the time the youngest is ready for the 10/22 

The reasons I buy quality: 
I hate cleaning weapons.
I hate buying things twice.
So, if I can get a reliable firearm that will last long enough to hand down, then I'm happy.


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## Transmissions (Jan 29, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> I didn't say a rifle or .308 wasn't great for home defense weapon. I'd trade my shotgun for an M1A or FAL for home defense in a second. I also rotate my shotgun and AK (7.62x39mm) out for bedside duty. I wouldn't want a bolt-action for home defense. Important difference.
> 
> Get a 10/22. They can be had for fairly cheap, ammo is cheap (hovering around 5-6 cents a round right now. Was less than 4 cents a couple months ago), and the little sombitch is reliable.
> 
> ...


If the M1A was at all in my price range I'd have that. That thing is the sex. Thats the gun I actually want, I'm just trying to go with whats in reach atm. They're going for what, 1.9k? 
10/22 Is probably gonna be it, that price is so good. 
And I was looking on their website, and I really couldn't tell the difference between all of them, except one might be this wood, or have this trigger style. And the take down folds up. But other than that, it seems it's more of aesthetics/where you plan on using it.
I'm gonna have to find a larger capacity mag before they all disappear, the prices probably skyrocketed.

http://shopruger.com/10_22-BX-25-MAGAZINE/productinfo/90361/ not bad.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Jan 29, 2013)

I see nothing wrong with a child having a gun given to them as long as the parent teaches them responsibly and makes sure they are ALWAYS supervised. My dad always was close to me.


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## Choop (Jan 29, 2013)

Could definitely recommend the 10/22, very fun rifle. I've used it for squirrel hunting, but it's a great plinker (that's what I've used it for most actually)! It's been super reliable and just generally really solid.


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## Eric Christian (Jan 29, 2013)

Transmissions said:


> So, I've been thinking about purchasing my first gun for a while now.
> I live in the US, and we're having some turmoil over the issue, and I
> really want to get something before prices skyrocket and availability
> drops. I don't want to make this thread about gun rights, so please,
> ...



I've had H&K, Colt, S&W, Ruger, Desert Eagle 50AE and many others. You know the only thing I have now and you know why? Several Glocks because of their design they give me the smallest pattern on the target and I love the trigger safety. Pull the slide back and shoot. No thinking and fumbling with safety levers and hammers, just point and shoot.


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## Transmissions (Jan 29, 2013)

Eric Christian said:


> I've had H&K, Colt, S&W, Ruger, Desert Eagle 50AE and many others. You know the only thing I have now and you know why? Several Glocks because of their design they give me the smallest pattern on the target and I love the trigger safety. Pull the slide back and shoot. No thinking and fumbling with safety levers and hammers, just point and shoot.


Not old enough for a handgun yet  le frowney. Don't really have much use for one other than home defense. A concealed carry permit would be nice though. Everyone seems to love glocks. I guess that's why the cops have them. Same reason they drive crown vics too.


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## MetalGravy (Jan 29, 2013)

I'd rather have a safety lever, but I'm paranoid about NDs. Interested in the Ruger SR9c, but don't know if the safety is easy to reach. The LC9's safety is in the perfect position (for my hand) and requires the perfect amount of force to use. Just need to shoot one now.


How did you like that DEagle? I saw one at a gun show and it was like trying to hold a small child one-handed.


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## mr_rainmaker (Jan 30, 2013)

I was a cop,I saw a LOT of ND`s with glocks,hence the term "GlockLeg"
I can`t recomend a glock for anyone but a very very experenced shooter.


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 30, 2013)

MetalGravy said:


> I'd rather have a safety lever, but I'm paranoid about NDs. Interested in the Ruger SR9c, but don't know if the safety is easy to reach. The LC9's safety is in the perfect position (for my hand) and requires the perfect amount of force to use. Just need to shoot one now.
> 
> 
> How did you like that DEagle? I saw one at a gun show and it was like trying to hold a small child one-handed.



I had a Ruger SR40C, exact same as the 9mm. The safety was easy to each, but then again, I have huge hands.




mr_rainmaker said:


> I was a cop,I saw a LOT of ND`s with glocks,hence the term "GlockLeg"
> I can`t recomend a glock for anyone but a very very experenced shooter.



The *ONLY* time a Glock goes off is when you pull the trigger. I can promise you that every time someone shot themselves in the leg, they pulled the fucking trigger.

A real good friend of mine works for my dad. They carry Glocks at work, and he shot himself a while back. This man is a former Marine, current LEO and firearms instructor for the State. He drew his duty weapon while at the range, and pulled the trigger. His own damn fault.

I carry a Glock 19 every day, and do a handful of dryfire drills, and have never had an ND. Not saying it won't happen some day, but it won't happen because it's a Glock. It'll happen because I pulled the trigger.

It is more likely that the safety will mechanically fail on my 1911 an allow the hammer to fall on a loaded chamber than it is for a Glock to fire without the trigger being pulled. If you do some digging around on the internals of a Glock, you'll see that the weapon has no way of firing, until the trigger is pulled, which, for a lack of a better term, charges the striker.


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## mr_rainmaker (Jan 30, 2013)

ooops your a glock defender 

like I should have said OPERATOR ERROR,a lot of people can`t keep their damn fingers off the damn trigger,this includes LE,the general public has this concept that all cops are superduper operators,but in reality most barely qualify....

here is how a glock works


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## mr_rainmaker (Jan 30, 2013)

for those who are reading that don`t know anything about the "gun culture" there`s a long standing debate Glock VS 1911 debate,which gets heated and funny at the same time but we are all good with each other,its in good natured fun so.....


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 30, 2013)

Yea, I know. I own two Glocknades.

I own a 1911, it stays in my truck. I carry a Glock 19. My girlfriend has a Glock 17 in her car.

I also have an AKM, but will be getting an AR soon.

I enjoy straddling the fence. 

I used to be a diehard 1911 fan. I refused to look at anything else. Then I bought a Ruger SR40C, and noticed that polymer isn't all bad. I sold it, bought a Glock 19 and now will willingly accept the fact that Glocks serve a purpose, and serve it very well. I now carry a gun that is reliable, accurate, and handles well in my hand.

The Glock vs 1911 debate is just like the 9mm vs 45acp debate. Factoring in modern practices (ammunition, technique, and build quality), the gap is so small between the two that it doesn't matter.

Put me in WW2 with only ball ammunition and a cleaning kit, then yes. 1911 wins all day.

Put me on the streets today, with modern hollow points, then a 9mm Glock does the job VERY well.

EDIT:

AND I get to carry more ammunition. Anybody that says "I don't need more than 7 rounds" is a moron and has never properly trained with their method of self defense.


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## mr_rainmaker (Jan 30, 2013)

BUZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!

9mm vs 45?

we all know 10mm wins


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 30, 2013)

mr_rainmaker said:


> we all know 10mm wins



We're not talking about what John Moses Browning WISHES he created.


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## mr_rainmaker (Jan 30, 2013)




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## mr_rainmaker (Jan 31, 2013)




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## Chickenhawk (Jan 31, 2013)




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## Krigloch the Furious (Feb 3, 2013)

Because of ammo prices, I bought one of these...


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## The Atomic Ass (Feb 3, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> Whatever you end up getting, get a Magpul AFG for it. Seriously. I have one on my 870, will be putting one on my AK when the new foregrip gets here, and the AR will have one. Hell, If I could figure out how to put one on my 1911 and Glocks I would


Full-size Glocks and some 1911's have rails. Problem solved.


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## engage757 (Feb 3, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> AND I get to carry more ammunition. Anybody that says "I don't need more than 7 rounds" has never been in a gunfight



fixed. 

Also, a 9mm is not a good defense round IMO. Such a high velocity round. If you miss, it may leave the house. So to speak.


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## The Atomic Ass (Feb 3, 2013)

mr_rainmaker said:


> I was a cop,I saw a LOT of ND`s with glocks,hence the term "GlockLeg"
> I can`t recomend a glock for anyone but a very very experenced shooter.


Anyone who has an ND with a Glock shouldn't be handling a firearm, of any description.


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## yellowv (Feb 3, 2013)

mr_rainmaker said:


> I was a cop,I saw a LOT of ND`s with glocks,hence the term "GlockLeg"
> I can`t recomend a glock for anyone but a very very experenced shooter.



This has to be the dumbest gun related post I have ever read on any forum in my life.

Edit I see you later blamed it on operator error. Apologies.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 3, 2013)

well I`m in a hurry when I come through the forums,got to get though so i an get back to practicing.... limited time 

but a lot of people, yes even cops, can`t keep their damn finger out of the trigger guard,I knew of a lot of incidents that never made the public,one where an officer "accidently" shot his wife in the butt...

I helped for a while on the range and with qualifying *shudders* never again....


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## Krigloch the Furious (Feb 3, 2013)

The easiest part of gun handling is keeping the trigger finger straight.


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## -42- (Feb 3, 2013)




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## MetalGravy (Feb 3, 2013)

mr_rainmaker said:


> BUZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!
> 
> 9mm vs 45?
> 
> we all know 10mm wins




No .357 Sig?




Krigloch the Furious said:


> Because of ammo prices, I bought one of these...
> 
> 
> Nicely done, hope you're able to find ammo for it. Around here, I keep finding 22WMR instead of LR.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 3, 2013)

nope I suck at mspaint.....


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## tacotiklah (Feb 3, 2013)

Hey Chris, I wanted to pick your brain for a minute and possibly get some suggestions since you really know your stuff on guns. I'm still in the market for something for home defense and for target shooting. I was originally stoked for buying a shotgun, but I am open to buying a handgun now as well. My budget is $200 (not including ammo, and targets, I may bump it up to $250 if need be) and I'm looking for something that looks cool, decent enough stopping power to put an attacker down, and is made for a novice. I figure that this would be a toughie due to the low budget, but I'm really with my back to the wall on the price due to fixing the car/paying bills/etc. 

So while I'm still open to getting a shotgun, I'm really looking more at a handgun. Something that isn't clumsy when trying to get to it in a hurry, loads up quickly and efficiently, and is dead accurate. 

What are your suggestions?


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 3, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Hey Chris, I wanted to pick your brain for a minute and possibly get some suggestions since you really know your stuff on guns. I'm still in the market for something for home defense and for target shooting. I was originally stoked for buying a shotgun, but I am open to buying a handgun now as well. My budget is $200 (not including ammo, and targets, I may bump it up to $250 if need be) and I'm looking for something that looks cool, decent enough stopping power to put an attacker down, and is made for a novice. I figure that this would be a toughie due to the low budget, but I'm really with my back to the wall on the price due to fixing the car/paying bills/etc.
> 
> So while I'm still open to getting a shotgun, I'm really looking more at a handgun. Something that isn't clumsy when trying to get to it in a hurry, loads up quickly and efficiently, and is dead accurate.
> 
> What are your suggestions?



There isn't a handgun I can suggest in good conscience that'll fit your budget. You MIGHT be able to find a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 that's close to your budget, but I doubt it with the current climate.

We've talked about this before 

I've been watching 870s and 500s going for $350 in shit condition lately, whereas a few months ago it wasn't unusual to find one for under $200.

The HR Pardner Pump is an 870 clone, albeit a lot cheaper. Gander Mountain had them listed for $230.
HR Pardner Pump Synthetic Shotgun - Gander Mountain

I wouldn't be against suggesting you find one used, as long as you take a flashlight with you. Check the inside of the barrel for ANY imperfections. It's smoothbore, just like the 870, so the inside of the barrel should be just that...smmmoooooooottthhh. If they kept it dirty, and never cleaned it it'll show some pitting, and in the worst cases a crack or two. I'm sure HR isn't using the same quality metal for their barrels as Remington (who, honestly, have gone downhill since Freedom Group took over). 

I wish I could give you a good answer, but for $200, you won't find much, if anything. If you do find something, let me know (re-add my on facebook), and I'll give you my honest opinion on it (as un-biased as possible.).

Hell, I used to be a strict 1911, 870 and ar15 guy. I now carry a Glock, shoot an AK and am hunting for a Fulton M14/Springfield M1A and Benelli M2 

In the interest of disclosure: My AK is for sale.


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## BornToLooze (Feb 3, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> EDIT:
> 
> AND I get to carry more ammunition. Anybody that says "I don't need more than 7 rounds" is a moron and has never properly trained with their method of self defense.



Double stack 1911






I'll take 15 rounds of .45 ACP over 15 rounds of 9mm anyday.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 3, 2013)

BornToLooze said:


> Double stack 1911
> 
> I'll take 15 rounds of .45 ACP over 15 rounds of 9mm anyday.



Eh, the 1911 is a great design...until you start fucking with it (ie double stack).

Just like a Glock. A Glock doesn't malfunction till the day you put a non-Glock part in it. 

If I get another .45acp, it'll be a Glock 21, or an HK45. Probably a Glock. Unless of course someone hands me a Kimber, but I'm perfectly happy with my Colt-built-under-another-name-by-foreigners M1911A1.


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## tacotiklah (Feb 4, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> There isn't a handgun I can suggest in good conscience that'll fit your budget. You MIGHT be able to find a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 that's close to your budget, but I doubt it with the current climate.
> 
> We've talked about this before
> 
> ...




Yeah I have to re-add you since I deleted my old account. How about a basic .22 like this 1911?:
Chiappa 1911-22 SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOL, 22LR 10 RNDS, BLACK - Impact Guns

I'll probably have to spring for clips/ammo/targets/classes/etc., but I'm pretty sure I can afford it. Now to get my cousin to agree to let me buy one since it's her and her family's house and they are pretty anti-gun. Fuck it, I'll just buy it on the d/l and keep it hidden until needed.


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## BornToLooze (Feb 4, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> Eh, the 1911 is a great design...until you start fucking with it (ie double stack).



Yeah, I wish I would have gotten a normal 1911. Think its hard to find AR mags? They're the most common rifle in America. You can count the double stack 1911s on one hand. I was just showing that you can have the same capacity as a glock in a good pistol, I mean 1911.

EDIT: Also, from seeing most people at the range, it doesn't matter if they're shooting 9mm, .45 acp, .40 S&W they can barely hit the target, let alone if they were trying to shoot someone attacking them.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 4, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Yeah I have to re-add you since I deleted my old account. How about a basic .22 like this 1911?:
> Chiappa 1911-22 SEMIAUTOMATIC PISTOL, 22LR 10 RNDS, BLACK - Impact Guns
> 
> 
> I'll probably have to spring for clips/ammo/targets/classes/etc., but I'm pretty sure I can afford it. Now to get my cousin to agree to let me buy one since it's her and her family's house and they are pretty anti-gun. Fuck it, I'll just buy it on the d/l and keep it hidden until needed.



For the love of all that is Holy and Tom Cruise, don't get a .22 for defense.



BornToLooze said:


> you can have the same capacity as a glock in a good pistol, I mean 1911.


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## tacotiklah (Feb 4, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> For the love of all that is Holy and Tom Cruise, don't get a .22 for defense.



What caliber would you recommend that's inexpensive and does the job? 9mm?


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 4, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> What caliber would you recommend that's inexpensive and does the job? 9mm?



Yup. If you can find it.


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## tacotiklah (Feb 4, 2013)

Perfect. I've seen a few inexpensive 9mms (not 1911s though)online that look sick and would probably get the job done.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 4, 2013)

1911's are best in .45, unless it will be strictly a competition gun, then 38 Super and 40 S&W are options.

If you're going to carry it, and are worried about size and ability to conceal, then a good .380 could be an option. There is some sacrifice made going with a .380 instead of 9mm, but with good defense rounds (quality high powered hollow points) it'll still get the job done.


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## tacotiklah (Feb 4, 2013)

Well the main emphasis really is gonna be on target shooting. Basically is a newbie's first gun kinda thing. I was just thinking it would be nice to also have it of a caliber that's just enough to stop a random attacker. But I'd rather just have it mainly to take to a range and fire off a few clips (giggity) so as to be a better shot should need arise.


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## mcd (Feb 4, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> Well the main emphasis really is gonna be on target shooting. Basically is a newbie's first gun kinda thing. I was just thinking it would be nice to also have it of a caliber that's just enough to stop a random attacker. But I'd rather just have it mainly to take to a range and fire off a few clips (giggity) so as to be a better shot should need arise.


 
There are a lot of really reliable cheap 9mm's out there. One of my secondary jobs is marksmanship training and coaching, and I can honestly say....stay as far the fuck away from a Berretta 92 as possible!!!

9mm will stop a random attacked easily, just gotta have the right ammo....or good aim.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 4, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> clips


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 7, 2013)

Here's a copy of a review I did for a new product I got:

Just got my new holster in from Old Faithful Holsters. Got the "Quick Assemble" kit for my Glock 19. After a few minutes fumbling around because I refused to read the directions, I got it together. Quality, so far, seems to be on par with the Crossbreed holster I had previously (that was gifted to someone for xmas), but this one important feature Crossbreed doesn't: Adjustability. Real simple to turn a few screws to make the retention tighter, or looser, which I think will be a very important thing as the leather breaks in.

Old Faithful Holsters - The Holster Store of Most Comfortable Gun Holsters

Excuse the dirty mirror. It seriously looks clean till it's hit with a camera flash.









Not too bad for not having my gun belt on, and wearing shitty shorts that don't fit right 

I think with jeans, and my gun belt this holster will work just fine.


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## MetalGravy (Feb 7, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> 1911's are best in .45, unless it will be strictly a competition gun, then 38 Super and 40 S&W are options.
> 
> If you're going to carry it, and are worried about size and ability to conceal, then a good .380 could be an option. There is some sacrifice made going with a .380 instead of 9mm, but with good defense rounds (quality high powered hollow points) it'll still get the job done.




.380 ammo is more expensive than 9mm, tho. Likewise, I keep seeing guns chambered in 40S&W that are priced =< their 9mm counterparts, but you'll end up paying the difference in ammo.

Chickenhawk, what do you think about 22 mag or .38 for defense?


Hmm, I may have to look into Old Faithful if I get a service-size pistol for carry. What do you store your gun in when not in use?


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 7, 2013)

MetalGravy said:


> .380 ammo is more expensive than 9mm, tho. Likewise, I keep seeing guns chambered in 40S&W that are priced =< their 9mm counterparts, but you'll end up paying the difference in ammo.
> 
> Chickenhawk, what do you think about 22 mag or .38 for defense?
> 
> ...



.38 will get the job done. I'm not an advocate of anything that starts with a .22 to take down anything but small game and varmints, with an exception for .223, grudgingly.

.22 mag might pack a punch, considering what it is, but you always have to consider what it is...a .22. Simply not enough mass.

My Glock 19 is usually in an OWB holster, and on my pants, as I open carry. When I go to bed, I my pants come off, with the Glock still attached, and they lay next to my bed, next to my shotgun. I can have my pants on, and shotgun in hand in no time flat (that's the official time, last time I checked ), if the need ever arises. 

I don't have a gun safe (although I'm in the market to get one very, very soon). I keep my shotgun in a soft rifle case, unzipped under the edge of my bed, and my Glock stays on me at all times, and is next to the shotgun at night. My 1911 stays in my truck, at all times, unless I bring it inside to clean or do a functions check.

The rest of my firearms are in cases, stuffed away in the back of my closet. Same with the bb guns and bows. Very shortly I'll be turning my old music area into a reloading / gunsmithing station, with a built in gun cabinet. It'll be pretty slick. But the Glock and scattergun will always stay where they're at.


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## Krigloch the Furious (Feb 7, 2013)

Nice!
I live in Illinois, so carrying a pistol is illegal. (fucking stupid)
I have a Glock 26 that I will carry if it ever gets passed. Have been wondering about holsters.


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## Ibanezsam4 (Feb 7, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> Very shortly I'll be turning my old music area into a reloading / gunsmithing station, with a built in gun cabinet. It'll be pretty slick.



please post pics of that dude, it'd be pretty sick to see i think


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## Krigloch the Furious (Feb 7, 2013)

speaking of reloading. Im really tempted to get into it.


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## MetalGravy (Feb 9, 2013)

You leave it in a leather holster? I thought that was supposed to be a bad idea.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 9, 2013)

MetalGravy said:


> You leave it in a leather holster? I thought that was supposed to be a bad idea.



I haven't had any issues. Might be hard on the leather, but it'll get conditioned every once in a while. EDIT: To be clear, it's leather on one side, Kydex on the other. Not a full leather holster. 

On a semi-related note: I'm going to start making holsters (leather and/or kydex) very soon. Might be able to actually start making some money with the holsters and accessories once I get my kydex press built (won't take long at all once I actually decide to do it, and order the kydex).

This stemmed from wanting to be able to carry in a few very specific ways that would require custom holsters to be made, and me not wanting to spend the money on a product I'm not 100% sure will work...when for cheaper I can make one myself that will absolutely work. My brother-in-law, his girlfriend, my father and my wife all have specific requests, also. So I'm just going to do it myself.

...just add that to the gunsmithing I do on the side


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## MetalGravy (Feb 9, 2013)

Where'd you learn gunsmithing, army or just picked it up along the way?

Also, I meant bad for the gun. I keep reading that leather attracts moisture.


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## texshred777 (Feb 9, 2013)

So long as you maintain your weapons well it's not really a problem. I haven't experienced any issues anyhow.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 9, 2013)

MetalGravy said:


> Where'd you learn gunsmithing, army or just picked it up along the way?
> 
> Also, I meant bad for the gun. I keep reading that leather attracts moisture.



Picked it up along the way. I'm still very much a novice, but I'm learning. I've pretty strongly considered going to the Colorado School of Trades to learn the craft professionally, but the earning potential just isn't there (working for someone else's shop, or opening a shop that strictly does gunsmith work)...not enough to justify leaving my family for that long.

My major hangup is not having the tools. I'd like to get a vice, and some specific tools (crowning, reamers, chamfering, drilling jigs, sight drifts, etc), so I can actually do some real work. I'd fucking love to get a hold of a lathe and mill, and build a sheet metal brake so I can do 80% AR lowers, and build AKs from scratch. Would be killer to be able to do barrel work, too. Not build them from scratch, though  I'm sure as shit not a machinist. Just an Army Vet, with a bunch of welding certs that don't mean shit since I fucked one of my eyes up.

But, if AWB 2: Electric Boogaloo doesn't completely neuter us, I might open a shop with my brother-in-law, and send myself to school.



texshred777 said:


> So long as you maintain your weapons well it's not really a problem. I haven't experienced any issues anyhow.



It's a Glock. I've found it can handle some abuse. But, it being my carry gun, I take care of it.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 12, 2013)

I`m kinda gassin for this glock


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## ghostred7 (Feb 12, 2013)

My carry & range plinker: Sig Sauer P220 Carry .45






I carry in a Crossbreed Supertuck holster. Even though I'm fat, you can't see it when I carry. My gf carries a Glock 21SF .45

EDIT: When did Glock start making 1911s?


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## Krigloch the Furious (Feb 12, 2013)

Nice Sig

Hhahaha 1911 Glock? Awesome. Can't be real. 

My pistols...


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 12, 2013)

The Glock 1911 is fake, guys


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 12, 2013)

foiled again...


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## BornToLooze (Feb 12, 2013)

Just when I thought there might be a Glock I was interested in...oh well, now I can keep hating them.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 13, 2013)




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## Chickenhawk (Feb 13, 2013)

I'm a big fan of chopping that argument down at the knees. 






My 1911 is a picky bitch. Still want to get a new barrel, hammer and grip safety, then maybe it'll feed hollowpoints more reliably, and won't tear up my hand when I shoot it.

She's my baby, regardless of all that.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 13, 2013)

cool a 1911 humping your glock


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## MetalGravy (Feb 13, 2013)

Wouldn't throating the barrel allow it to feed hollow points?


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 14, 2013)

it should,honestly I`ve never came across a 1911 that had issues that it wasn`t a mag problem,all mine will even chamber and cycle,emptys.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 14, 2013)

MetalGravy said:


> Wouldn't throating the barrel allow it to feed hollow points?



It should. I don't want to do anything to this barrel, though. It's old, and getting close to being shot out.



mr_rainmaker said:


> it should,honestly I`ve never came across a 1911 that had issues that it wasn`t a mag problem,all mine will even chamber and cycle,emptys.



It's not a mag problem. I've tried with 25 different mags, from 4 different manufacturers. I had ONE mag that would load and cycle the first few JHPs in the mag, but it wouldn't do it a second time.

Just gonna put a Wilson barrel in it and call it good. My 1911 was built in the 40's, and used in the Argentine Army, she's got a few rounds through her.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 14, 2013)

the 1940`s holy crap................... is that a rand isn`t it?????
thats a museum piece,I`d case queen that thing and go buy ya like a RockIsland or springfield 1911 for use...


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 14, 2013)

mr_rainmaker said:


> the 1940`s holy crap................... is that a rand isn`t it?????
> thats a museum piece,I`d case queen that thing and go buy ya like a RockIsland or springfield 1911 for use...





Nope, it's a Sistema. It's a Colt GI M1911A1 clone. Xavier Thoughts: The Colt Sistema

They get a bad rep from misinformed people saying they're built from junk metal, or shitty QA/QC, but honestly, this gun fucking runs. It's accurate and reliable. Well, about as accurate as it can be, considering it's possible the barrel has been shot to hell. 

I can't really hand it off to a museum, anyways. I've taken a grinder to it a couple times, since I didn't (at the time) want to throw money at a $400 1911. But, once I started comparing it to other M1911A1s I've gotten my hands on and realizing it's identical, plus putting it through it's paces and finding out it's a reliable gun, I've decided to give her a new barrel and maybe some hammer/grip safety work.

Hell, it might get some new sights one of these days. Not really wanting to pay a machine shop to cut slots for novak style sights, though. Always falls on the fact it's only a $400 gun 

And I've had a Springfield Operator, didn't impress me for the money. If I'm going to buy another 1911 (doubtful), it'll be a Wilson.


----------



## mr_rainmaker (Feb 14, 2013)

OOOO a sistema,well pull out the tools and mod away 

you might check out the RIA`s shop around they can be had for less than 4bills, I had a few and unless your limpwristing it,they run like raped apes....


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## MetalGravy (Feb 15, 2013)

I tried a Ruger SR1911 a couple months back and liked it, but I have only shot one other 1911 and that was years ago.


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## facepalm66 (Feb 15, 2013)

Hey, any thoughts on the wesson & smith 22a? 
How is it while comparing to the glock 17, even though it's cheaper like more than 4 times? I know it's a bit heavier, but that's not a huge issue I think.
I've been shooting glock for a while and tried the beretta92 for few times. I really liked the glock.
Thanks


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 15, 2013)

just about everyone makes a good 1911 now,there`s not much hit and miss out there anymore,the key to a reliable 1911 is about the same as a glock and thats loose tolerences,the only glocks I had problems with was the unsupported barrels that came with those 40`s.(had one pop on me,and personally seen a couple more pop on dept issued 40`s)


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 15, 2013)

The key to a GREAT 1911 is that the parts are fitted to each other. But rainmaker is right, anybody can make one that works. If you want one that will work phenomenally, you're going to spend a lot of money. 

And you can't compare the Glock 17 to the S&W 22a. One's 9mm, the other .22l. What do you want to do with it? If you're not going to use it for personal defense or competition, then the .22 is just fine.

Hell, I have arsenals at my disposal, and me and my brother-in-law shoot our 10/22s more than anything. Wish I could get my hands on a Ruger SR22. Father-in-law has one, and it's fucking awesome.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 15, 2013)

as far as awesome 22`s Id have to say GSG-5


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 18, 2013)

Genesis 19-11


1. In the beginning there was the 1911, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it workith. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.

2. And shouldst thou muck with it, and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.

3. And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.

4. Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.

5. And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and lose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.

6. And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.

7. Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men, the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.

8. And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did appear to function.

9. And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.

10. But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and didst proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.

11. And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.

12. Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.

13. And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation by the followers of John.


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## BornToLooze (Feb 18, 2013)

I'm going to start this out by saying I don't know that much about 1911s, but I just got another 1911 and it has a full length guide rod in it. I thought that I had heard somewhere that that could mess them up. So do I need to change it, or will it be fine?


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 19, 2013)

naw it should be fine,I got full length on a commander length and I've never had a FTF.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 19, 2013)

I've heard the rumors against full length guide rods, but never witnessed anything personally.

If you're going to run the gun REAL hard, then maybe. But if you run it REAL hard, you'll notice what it needs and doesn't need pretty quick. 

I'm a big fan of only giving a gun what it wants, not what you think it needs or wants. Run the sumbitch, see what it does. If it does something it shouldn't, fix it, otherwise, leave it alone.

**'Hawk completely bastardized his 870 including complete stock replacement, cut the barrel down, and did work on the receiver and bolt before he even test fired it.*


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## MetalGravy (Feb 19, 2013)

@rainmaker: You forgot about the firing pin block. Some ppl just have to have their Series 70 slide.


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## ghostred7 (Feb 19, 2013)

I've always been fond of this Walther P38


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 19, 2013)

MetalGravy said:


> @rainmaker: You forgot about the firing pin block. Some ppl just have to have their Series 70 slide.





yea O NOES THE 1911 gots the fireing pin blocks


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## BornToLooze (Feb 20, 2013)

Well I had switched it out with a normal guide rod off my other 1911 before I read that and when I was at the range I put about 350 rounds through it and didn't have a FTF, just got hot enough it was starting to discolor the slide a little. When I noticed that I figured it was about time to give it a rest. This weekend I'll probably try and put another 200 through it with the full length and see if it's any different.

EDIT: And I can't find my camera to take a picture for y'all, but this is what it is.

Taurus International Manufacturing Inc

EDIT #2: I also may be getting a MAC-10.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 21, 2013)

HOLYCRAP BATMAN!!
this link some guy makes working guns out of PAPER!!!!

Tacome1942&#39;s channel - YouTube


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 21, 2013)

So, I work in the Security business. And I am able to have one rifle and sidearm while on duty. 

So I was thinking of getting either an AR-15 SBR from Daniel Defense or Larue. With a 1911 or HK.23 side. 

Too tacticool or would it actually be the best idea?


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## Randy (Feb 21, 2013)

I'd imagine what kind of security you're into would make a big difference.


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 21, 2013)

Randy said:


> I'd imagine what kind of security you're into would make a big difference.


Best way I could describe it is "lower level contracting" type stuff. Armed Security, but no camo and and "tactical gear" crazy stuff. The AR-15 would be stowed away in the patrol vehicle most of the time while I can open carry the handgun at all times.


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## ghostred7 (Feb 21, 2013)

Any of the duty-quality sidearms like a Beretta M9 (or the Taurus PT92 equivalent...my understanding = Taurus bought Beretta factories, so is essentially the same) would be fine, really depends on what caliber you want to carry. I'm a big fan of my Sig .45. We had the Beretta M9 in the Army. Springfield XD series is replacing the Glock as a duty weapon locally in several precincts, which is ironic seeing how the US Glock factory is local (Smyrna, GA).

Personally, in my experience anyway, the 1911 platform requires a lot more maintenance to be at optimal reliability. I would recommend going to a range and trying a few out in your preferred caliber. 

It really doesn't matter what you get as long as you are as proficient with it as possible and the firearm is as reliable as possible. At the end of the day, they all throw lead "down range."

For duty rifle....I wouldn't get anything but an AR-15 honestly. Especially one that has the railing for various accessories (laser, light, etc) and optics. They are very accurate, low recoil (yay pistons!), light weight, modular, and reliable.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 21, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Best way I could describe it is "lower level contracting" type stuff. Armed Security, but no camo and and "tactical gear" crazy stuff. The AR-15 would be stowed away in the patrol vehicle most of the time while I can open carry the handgun at all times.



Shoot me a PM with some details. I've got a little insight on the private security world, and there might be a few things you should know, depending on what you're looking to get into.

Mainly: Never, EVER draw your weapon EVER...unless you're acting outside of the United States, or are POST Certified. Few exceptions exist. In most situations that firearm is simply a deterrent, and is never to be used.


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## ghostred7 (Feb 21, 2013)

Chickenhawk said:


> Mainly: Never, EVER draw your weapon EVER...unless you're acting outside of the United States, or are POST Certified. Few exceptions exist. In most situations that firearm is simply a deterrent, and is never to be used.



Learn the laws in the state where you live, and learn them WELL. Learn what disparity of force is and what it means for you carrying a firearm. Take private training. Take reactionary training. Don't rely on your job to train you...they're expecting you to be trained. If they're hiring someone untrained and allowing them firearms to act on their behalf, they're taking a big risk.

Businesses cannot add onto the law. This is why in GA, the "No Firearms" signs in places such as Applebees mean 2 things: Jack & Shit.

As for "Never, EVER draw your weapon" statement.....what's the purpose of having them? If you learn the law well, you'll know when it's right and when it's wrong. At the end of the day, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.


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## Chickenhawk (Feb 21, 2013)

ghostred7 said:


> As for "Never, EVER draw your weapon" statement.....what's the purpose of having them? If you learn the law well, you'll know when it's right and when it's wrong. At the end of the day, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.



Depending on the company, and the State's laws, the person in uniform that is not POST certified, or working under a law enforcement capacity, could very well be charged with murder. Again, depends on the situation, and the local laws.

A lot of times the 'security' guys you might see walking around have LESS training, and LESS legal right to draw their weapon in self-defense than a Concealed Carry Permit holder. Notice I said SELF defense, the situation gets even murkier when you're protecting someone else's life. 

Again, all depends on the laws in your area. From what I know of my area, I will never take a job that requires me to carry that doesn't also require me to be POST certified...for my own legal protection. 

This is coming from a guy that carries every day.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 21, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> Best way I could describe it is "lower level contracting" type stuff. Armed Security, but no camo and and "tactical gear" crazy stuff. The AR-15 would be stowed away in the patrol vehicle most of the time while I can open carry the handgun at all times.




if i were you I'd double check and triple check the laws,in some states armed security can only carry a sidearm,and some can't carry or have access to a rifle,and quite a few you have to have special cetification for shotgun,some states you have to be certified to carry pepperspray or even tazer.


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## Krigloch the Furious (Mar 9, 2013)

Been waiting weeks for these to arrive. Got home yesterday and they were sitting infront of my door! 

(2 25rd'ers, 2 10rd'ers) 
The pink milk ring is for the cats, their favorite toy.


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## mr_rainmaker (Mar 9, 2013)

good job finding those...


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## Krigloch the Furious (Mar 9, 2013)

Rugers website. lol


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## Carrion Rocket (Mar 10, 2013)

I only have one right right now, I want to get a Ruger 10/22 but at this point I probably wont be able to get one until 2015. The rifle I have is a .22 caliber Smith & Wesson M&P-15. I got it because .22LR is cheap and I have no need for a .223. I plan on getting a .357 and a 9mm. Plus a 12 Gauge, we had one before but it was sold to pay some bills.


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## MetalGravy (Mar 29, 2013)

Ugh,






In more pleasant news,

Happy NGD to me!









Only included one mag, though, the CS lady told me two ; I was likely going to buy more mags later anyway. It fits in my 1911 shoulder holster, which is pretty neat. Broke two S.T. Action Pro snap caps, so I guess won't be buying any more those. Once I feel comfortable with it, it'll be my carry piece. I wanted to get 9mm CZ, but can't find any damn ammo.


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## mr_rainmaker (Mar 30, 2013)

really nice...


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## ghostred7 (Mar 30, 2013)

nice!


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 10, 2013)

Hi, guys!

I'm new here, just wanted to pop in here and show my new toy.

I'm an avid shooter, and I open carry a Glock 19 everywhere I go. 

Here's my new integrally suppressed CMMG Mk9 9mm AR15:



















This thing is QUIET. Almost Hollywood quiet. I run 147s through it, but it will run 115s subsonic. The barrel is ported to cut velocity.

It has an 8 inch barrel, and the can is 16 inches long. I've waited a long time for this.


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 10, 2013)

Oh, and I do not care for 1911s...

(Flame suit on)

I do not believe in manual safeties on handguns. I carry a Glock every day, all day, and I wouldn't have it any other way. 

I do think that the 1911 is a masterful and beautiful gun, but it does not have any business being a defensive handgun.


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## BlindingLight7 (Apr 10, 2013)

My interests shifted to AR, so I'm building a nice little rig that can be used in cqc and out to 700yd. I'm stoked. I just need the lower


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 10, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> My interests shifted to AR, so I'm building a nice little rig that can be used in cqc and out to 700yd. I'm stoked. I just need the lower




Check Palmetto State Armory. I just ordered two. Should still be in stock. Got them for $119 each.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/firearms/receivers.html


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 10, 2013)

Hey! You're from Indiana, too!! What part?


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## mr_rainmaker (Apr 10, 2013)

RZKSpieler said:


> Oh, and I do not care for 1911s...
> 
> (Flame suit on)
> 
> ...


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## Krigloch the Furious (Apr 10, 2013)

Nice rifle!!!
only one thing I dont like about a 1911..... the weight. other than that it's my favorite pistol


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## CptMcKay (Apr 11, 2013)

MetalGravy, how do you like that pistol? I love CZs and their variants!


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## MetalGravy (Apr 14, 2013)

Finally, got out to the range today (after having to wait 2 weeks ). Couldn't get the sights set up properly for 25 yards. It shoots "high" out of the box--I'm guessing that it's sighted for 25 meters, not yards. At 15, though, I can murder the mother-fuck out of some paper. The felt-recoil just reinforces my love for heavy guns. <hickok45_voice>Slinging that 230gr ball</hickok45_voice> feels like shooting 9mm.

Only got 150 rounds (Herters, S&B, PMC Bronze) through it so far, but am really liking it. The SA trigger feels great. Since it has a safety instead of a decocker, I only took one DA shot. The DA trigger's heavy but not unmanageable (unlike, say, a PX4). If ammo were plentiful (and firing ranges closer), I'd head out more often.


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## facepalm66 (Apr 14, 2013)

Hey guys, just wanted to ask if anybody has tried and / or own a WALTHER SP22 M3.
It's quite cheap new already, but I'm thinking of obtaining one for self - defence and training. 

I really like glocks and also tried beretta 92, which is probably the most comfortable Semi - auto pistol for me.
How's the one to compare with either a glock or beretta? 
(yes, I know it's something like comparing axefx vs pod HD, but.. )


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## mcd (Apr 14, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> Hey guys, just wanted to ask if anybody has tried and / or own a WALTHER SP22 M3.
> It's quite cheap new already, but I'm thinking of obtaining one for self - defence and training.
> 
> I really like glocks and also tried beretta 92, which is probably the most comfortable Semi - auto pistol for me.
> ...



you actually liked the beretta 92? I hate those things!


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## facepalm66 (Apr 15, 2013)

Yea, It just fit my hand very well, for some reason. 
Or maybe i'm just not picky at all


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 15, 2013)

Glock 19 every day. The 92s aren't terrible, but I like me a good striker fired DAO handgun over a DA/SA.

I used to carry a SIG P226. That was a great gun, but the Glock won out in the end.


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## Moolaka (Apr 15, 2013)

I have a Stevens 200 in .308 with a Leupold rifleman 3-9x. Future plans for it include an evo trigger, a decent laminate stock and fluting of bolt, maybe eventually replace the barrel for a heavier one with fluting.

I've had a Russian SKS and a Mosin Nagant, great historic rifles. I really like 7.62x39, but I can hunt more with a .308 bolt. For home defense I want a Mossberg 590 loaded with rubber slugs and pepper rounds, but that's really more of a daydream I have.


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 15, 2013)

Moolaka said:


> I have a Stevens 200 in .308 with a Leupold rifleman 3-9x. Future plans for it include an evo trigger, a decent laminate stock and fluting of bolt, maybe eventually replace the barrel for a heavier one with fluting.
> 
> I've had a Russian SKS and a Mosin Nagant, great historic rifles. I really like 7.62x39, but I can hunt more with a .308 bolt. For home defense I want a Mossberg 590 loaded with rubber slugs and pepper rounds, but that's really more of a daydream I have.




Why would you use less lethal for HD? If someone enters my home uninvited, they're leaving in a bag. I would highly suggest not using less lethal rounds for personal defense.

Also, the 590 is awesome. I had a M590A1 with ghost rings, and tactical stock. I loved having 9 shots of 12 ga. 00 buck at my disposal. 

Then, I decided that a handgun makes a better home defense gun, so the gun I carry protects me when I'm out, and when I'm home. I have the ARs for if shit gets too extreme, but the G19 can handle most problems.


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## Chickenhawk (Apr 15, 2013)

For the love of all things holy, don't use less-lethal for home defense. If your state requires it, then move.

I'd hate to see the lawsuit slapped on you for hitting someone with a rubber round, regardless of them breaking the law immediately prior to being shot. 

00 and #1 buck for 12ga. Hollow points for everything else.

Or you can be like my father in law, and keep some of these loaded up in his 12ga:


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## mcd (Apr 16, 2013)

facepalm66 said:


> Yea, It just fit my hand very well, for some reason.
> Or maybe i'm just not picky at all



Im the opposite, they don't fit my hand at all. I hate coaching shooters on the pistol range I shoot very well with the M9, but coaching is the hardest on it.


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## Nile (Apr 16, 2013)

I have a feeling you guys would toss a hand grenade at an intruder if it were legal.


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## Chickenhawk (Apr 16, 2013)

Nile said:


> I have a feeling you guys would toss a hand grenade at an intruder if it were legal.



Nope. Too much collateral damage. 

But, if hand grenades were legal, I might consider lining the walls near my front door with 1/2" steel plate. 

Gun news:

My dad bought a new in box Glock 17 Gen 3 today. The wife put a Gen 4 Glock 19 on layaway, and I put two AR lowers on layaway yesterday.

Found the AR lowers for $100 each 

Also found out today this is the first gun my fathers ever bought from a store, he was clueless about the NICS  I had to coach him.


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 16, 2013)

Nile said:


> I have a feeling you guys would toss a hand grenade at an intruder if it were legal.





FAIL. I want to kill the guy, not destroy my house.


Have you ever thrown a grenade? A grenade blast in a house would give you a concussion.


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## mr_rainmaker (Apr 16, 2013)

Nile said:


> I have a feeling you guys would toss a hand grenade at an intruder if it were legal.




nope thats what the RPG's for


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## mcd (Apr 16, 2013)

RZKSpieler said:


> FAIL. I want to kill the guy, not destroy my house.
> 
> 
> Have you ever thrown a grenade? A grenade blast in a house would give you a concussion.



I've tossed a few grenades into homes before. Them buggers are loud, not all that powerful considering, but loud!


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 16, 2013)

mcd said:


> I've tossed a few grenades into homes before. Them buggers are loud, not all that powerful considering, but loud!




Into homes that you occupied? I think not!


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## Nile (Apr 16, 2013)

RZKSpieler said:


> FAIL. I want to kill the guy, not destroy my house.
> 
> 
> Have you ever thrown a grenade? A grenade blast in a house would give you a concussion.



*You hear the wind rush past as the joke/sarcasm flies right over his head.*


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 16, 2013)

Nile said:


> *You hear the wind rush past as the joke/sarcasm flies right over his head.*




I wasn't 100% sure on your intent. My response was engineered to cover both angles. 

I can see it was levity. It doesn't detract from the face that grenades are a poor HD solution. 

Maybe a Hornet's Nest grenade?


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## mcd (Apr 16, 2013)

RZKSpieler said:


> Into homes that you occupied? I think not!



Only way to make sure the spider was gone there.


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## Joose (Apr 16, 2013)

I love what the Colorado Sheriffs are doing. I'm moving there in less than 2 weeks. Guess my Beretta 92FS is going with me afterall!


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 16, 2013)

Joose said:


> I love what the Colorado Sheriffs are doing. I'm moving there in less than 2 weeks. Guess my Beretta 92FS is going with me afterall!




Really? CO just passed a magazine capacity restriction, and you still want to move there?


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## Krigloch the Furious (Apr 17, 2013)

isnt Magpul moving?


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## Chickenhawk (Apr 17, 2013)

Krigloch the Furious said:


> isnt Magpul moving?



Yup.

They haven't announced where yet, but they're _supposed_ to push products out from the new location within 30 days of the Colorado mag limits being signed into law.


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## MetalGravy (Apr 18, 2013)

Has Hi-Viz announced where they're going? What about Beretta? They stated that they will be leaving Maryland.


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## Chickenhawk (Apr 18, 2013)

MetalGravy said:


> Has Hi-Viz announced where they're going? What about Beretta? They stated that they will be leaving Maryland.



I haven't heard anything yet. I know Texas is pretty high on everybody's lists. Berretta might stay in New England somewhere. 

I'm curious what they're going to offer their current employees. It would be amazing if they offered help relocating with the company.


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## MetalGravy (Apr 18, 2013)

If not, they'd have to replace a lot of skilled labor. Also, it looks like PTR and part of Colt may be leaving Conn for Texas.


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## BlindingLight7 (Apr 18, 2013)

So, I'm surprised this thread is still on this site, seeing as my perception of SS.org is that it is Extremely, Extremely Leftist/ Liberal/ Democrat (Whatever you want to be called). 

Anyway, I started my AR build recently, hopefully I can get my lower and other parts ordered within a few weeks 









Not too much to show yet, but I figured I might as well share.


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## Mordacain (Apr 19, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> So, I'm surprised this thread is still on this site, seeing as my perception of SS.org is that it is Extremely, Extremely Leftist/ Liberal/ Democrat (Whatever you want to be called)



I don't think there are many people that are not generally conservative that like any of those titles. That's really what it boils down to: conservatives and everyone else.

Oddly enough, everyone else includes a fair share of folks who dig guns and metal and liberty and all sorts of awesome stuff 

Looks like the start of a cool build


----------



## BlindingLight7 (Apr 19, 2013)

Mordacain said:


> I don't think there are many people that are not generally conservative that like any of those titles. That's really what it boils down to: conservatives and everyone else.
> 
> Oddly enough, everyone else includes a fair share of folks who dig guns and metal and liberty and all sorts of awesome stuff
> 
> Looks like the start of a cool build


That's why I hate being under that category, but I guess it can't be much worse than libertarian or tea party...yuck. 

And yes, It's a Magpul CTR Mil-Spec, Troy VTAC Alpha Modular Rail (15") and troy battlemags

I am going for something that is a cross between an SPR and an SBR, A normal carbine basically. But I really want to be able to hunt with this if I want to, not just shooting steel or pop cans.


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## mcd (Apr 19, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> That's why I hate being under that category, but I guess it can't be much worse than libertarian or tea party...yuck.
> 
> And yes, It's a Magpul CTR Mil-Spec, Troy VTAC Alpha Modular Rail (15") and troy battlemags
> 
> I am going for something that is a cross between an SPR and an SBR, A normal carbine basically. But I really want to be able to hunt with this if I want to, not just shooting steel or pop cans.



nice build, and Im a libertarian jerk!


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## BlindingLight7 (Apr 19, 2013)

mcd said:


> nice build, and Im a libertarian jerk!


When I say that, I'm meaning the purest version of the stereotype. There's plenty of good dudes on either side of the line. I only mean the most extreme of both ends.


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## mcd (Apr 19, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> When I say that, I'm meaning the purest version of the stereotype. There's plenty of good dudes on either side of the line. I only mean the most extreme of both ends.



I don't take offense man just poking fun at ya


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## RZKSpieler (Apr 23, 2013)

What's wrong with Libertarians? Or Tea Partiers?


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## BlindingLight7 (Apr 23, 2013)

WHAT HAVE I STARTED.


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## leandroab (Apr 23, 2013)

let's drink some tea..

...and party


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## mr_rainmaker (Apr 23, 2013)




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## hand amputation (Apr 23, 2013)

Got a few myself.

One of my favorites is my Ruger LCR.






LOTS of power in a very small package.

Since this pic was taken I added a neon sight. It's rad.


----------



## Chickenhawk (Apr 23, 2013)




----------



## leandroab (Apr 23, 2013)

I want some guns


----------



## hand amputation (Apr 23, 2013)

Here's another. It was my first purchase, and it sparked my interest for flat black as well as Hogue over molded grips.






Mossberg Persuader 12g home defense shotgun.


----------



## mr_rainmaker (Apr 24, 2013)

nice...


----------



## tacotiklah (Apr 25, 2013)

This is a pretty cool gun. I imagine that there would be few places in the civilian side of the US that this would be allowed, but still nifty. And this guy needs to rethink his safety procedures @ 3:25.


----------



## BornToLooze (Apr 25, 2013)

Nile said:


> I have a feeling you guys would toss a hand grenade at an intruder if it were legal.



Maybe land mines


Got some new grips for my 1911





and a XD and a Mac10


----------



## Chickenhawk (Apr 25, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> This is a pretty cool gun. I imagine that there would be few places in the civilian side of the US that this would be allowed, but still nifty. And this guy needs to rethink his safety procedures @ 3:25.




The shrapnel from the explosion is fake.


----------



## Daf57 (Apr 25, 2013)

Hey guys - a bit of a collector of sorts myself. Sometime back I decided I wanted to get a few of the guns I grew up admiring. I don't hunt, I just collect for the fun of it.

This is what I have so far.

This my AK, it's a WASR 63 with upgraded furniture.






This is a m16 (semi auto) 603 model. It was made from a kit - all authentic Colt '70s parts except for the lower receiver (Nodak Spud). 






Had it engraved as well.







This is from another of the kits - same deal with the authentic parts less the receiver - this is a 653 model.





Recently completed an authentic IDF Uzi (9mm) kit - barrel and receiver are aftermarket. 





This is my RIA 1911 - I retro'd it up with some authentic grips and other bits.





And had to have a cowboy gun! This is an Uberti Cattleman - 44Colt






I've got a few others - some black powder Civil War pieces in particular.

Here is my Home Defense weapon of choice...





Thanks!


----------



## mr_rainmaker (Apr 25, 2013)

really nice collection.


----------



## Chickenhawk (Apr 25, 2013)

Sweet Jesus, I want a 603. 

I'm jealous.


----------



## Randy (Apr 25, 2013)

BlindingLight7 said:


> So, I'm surprised this thread is still on this site, seeing as my perception of SS.org is that it is Extremely, Extremely Leftist/ Liberal/ Democrat (Whatever you want to be called).



Threads don't get pruned just based on viewpoint.

This thread's been civil and fits within the rules of the site, so it will continue to remain open so long as it follows those guidelines.


----------



## Daf57 (Apr 25, 2013)

Thanks, guys!


----------



## MetalGravy (Apr 26, 2013)

ghstofperdition said:


> This is a pretty cool gun. I imagine that there would be few places in the civilian side of the US that this would be allowed, but still nifty. And this guy needs to rethink his safety procedures @ 3:25.





FPSRussia? Safety? What?


----------



## tacotiklah (Apr 26, 2013)

^ that was my point exactly.


----------



## Krigloch the Furious (Apr 27, 2013)

OMG, this lack of ammo is really pissing me off. 
Shelves are completely empty!


----------



## rekab (Apr 27, 2013)

Krigloch the Furious said:


> OMG, this lack of ammo is really pissing me off.
> Shelves are completely empty!


 
Gunbot.net
Armslist.com

You're welcome


----------



## rekab (Apr 27, 2013)

Also I suppose I could add a little something to the thread:
My Marlin 60. This was my first ever rifle. I've had it around 15 years or so and the owner before me was my friends grandpa. It's a late 70's gun but I've updated it as you can see.




I mainly shoot reactive steel and that is done with this:


----------



## MetalGravy (Apr 27, 2013)

rekab said:


> Gunbot.net
> Armslist.com
> 
> You're welcome




Also, slickguns.com


----------



## Choop (Apr 29, 2013)

rekab said:


>



Neat stock! It's dragunovy.

I pretty much grew up with guns, and will probably always be fascinated by them. Need to snag some pics of mine..currently I have:

Ruger 10/22
Ruger Mini 14 SS
Mosin Nagant 91/30
AR 15 (mid-length built from a Del-Ton kit with a CMMG lower)
Mossberg 500
Mossberg .410 bolt-action
Schmidt-Rubin model 1889

Don't own a handgun really, but my grandpa left my dad a .38 special Police Bulldog revolver that I'm free to use. So there's that, I guess.

Trying to get rid of the AR due to monetary needs, and I feel like I'm more of a classic...straight stock guy anyhow. It's fun to shoot, but I can't really afford to shoot it much currently. I have a small stock of .223 that I'll keep around for the mini still, though.


----------



## hand amputation (May 1, 2013)

That Marlin is sweet! I wanted to do something similar with my Remington 597. 22LR ammo is so hard to find right now, so I think I'll wait.


----------



## Konfyouzd (May 1, 2013)

hand amputation said:


> Here's another. It was my first purchase, and it sparked my interest for flat black as well as Hogue over molded grips.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You actually shoot it like that? I have a persuader too... That thing comes back at you HARD to be using a pistol grip...


I also have a Glock 30 and Ruger P90... I really want to get a 1911 of some kind.


----------



## BornToLooze (May 2, 2013)

Konfyouzd said:


> I really want to get a 1911 of some kind.



Oh trust me, you won't just want A 1911 after you get one.


----------



## RZKSpieler (May 2, 2013)

Heh. Not a fan of 1911s. I had one. I'm a Glock guy.


----------



## MetalGravy (Jun 8, 2013)

Well, I've been looking for an IWB holster for my Sar K2, but no luck. I contacted Old Faithful about using their pre-molded CZ 75 SP-01 holster, but they advised against it and suggested molding the kydex myself. I watched one of the tutorial videos and the process looks simple enough, but I'd rather not risk ....ing it up. Right now thinking about trying Comp-Tac (M-Tac, Infidel Ultra, or Minotaur) or Crossbreed or RDR. I've read that Glock 21 holster holsters may work with it...and thoughts?

Right now, I'm using a 1911 shoulder rig (Gould and Goodrich), and though it works reasonably well, having to wear an extra layer to keep it concealed is kind of annoying. I can get away with as long as the weather here is bullshit, but I don't anticipate that lasting all summer.


----------



## ThePhilosopher (Jun 12, 2013)

My first pistol purchase, it's a nice first gun for a lefty with a lot of righty friends. I'm looking at a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB for using after getting my CHL.

Crappy cellphone photo: FNS-9


----------



## ThePhilosopher (Jun 13, 2013)

Krigloch the Furious said:


> OMG, this lack of ammo is really pissing me off.
> Shelves are completely empty!



I recently got 350 rounds of 9mm FMJ 115gr for $120 (not a great price, but for target ammo and practice to qual for my CHL it's not bad) at an Academy store that gets regular shipments 3 days a week, you just have to be in line around 745 for when they open at 8. If anyone in Houston wants more info hit me up via PM.


----------



## Krigloch the Furious (Jun 16, 2013)

ouch
I was at gander mtn yesterday and saw 200 rounds of blazer .45acp for $120!!!
would have to be retarded to pay for that


----------



## Azathoth43 (Jun 17, 2013)

Daf57 said:


> This my AK, it's a WASR 63 with upgraded furniture.



That's sweet. After I get a Glock 21 I'm seriously thinking about getting an AK.


----------



## Azathoth43 (Jun 20, 2013)

So this happend today.






Anyone have any holster recommendations?


----------



## mr_rainmaker (Jun 20, 2013)

Azathoth43 said:


> So this happend today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Church2224 (Dec 12, 2013)

Necro Bumping this.

Anyone know of a good AK in the USA? I was looking at getting this one- 

SLR-107 Series  7.62x39 Caliber Bulgarian Stamped Receiver Rifles

I am also looking at getting this AR sometime in the future. Got to take a look at one the other day and it was AWESOME

AR15 Style Rifles, Suppressors, Receivers & Rails by Black Rain Ordnance


----------



## mr_rainmaker (Dec 12, 2013)

as far as I know the arsenal is good to go,though I`m not impressed with black rain ordance.
though you should look them both up on the "other forum" before you decide.


----------



## sniperfreak223 (Dec 12, 2013)

I like old guns...with a particular interest in Russian/Soviet/Finnish Mosin Nagants, especially sniper rifles.


----------



## mr_rainmaker (Dec 12, 2013)

sniperfreak223 said:


> I like old guns...with a particular interest in Russian/Soviet/Finnish Mosin Nagants, especially sniper rifles.


----------



## sniperfreak223 (Dec 12, 2013)

^that is actually my current desktop wallpaper.


----------



## wlfers (Dec 13, 2013)

I <3 Mausers


----------



## Shredderboy1658 (Dec 14, 2013)




----------



## tommychains (Dec 14, 2013)

Bought my first gun back in may. Wanted to get a Bushmaster 223 but after NY went gun grabbing after the NY S.A.F.E. act I decided to just get a Mossberg 500 20 gauge. Had to get a long stock since any pistol gripped weapon is consudered an assault weapon. So glad I'm moving south. 

Once I move down south I'm getting my full auto on


----------



## sniperfreak223 (Dec 14, 2013)

^if you wanna go full auto, you're gonna need to fill out A LOT of extra paperwork and need some REALLY deep pockets...


----------



## Sicarius (Dec 14, 2013)

I keep watching videos about 3-gun competitions, and I've always been against building an AR, but man does that look fun. 

it would just cost me way too much because H&K fanboy, though.


----------



## texshred777 (Dec 16, 2013)

Building a 3 gun AR at the moment, actually.

Looking at about $1100 not including optic.


----------



## Sicarius (Dec 16, 2013)

that's not bad. 

I may see about a colt AR15 that's mostly ready. 

I just don't know about the optic, some of the good ones are redonk.


----------



## texshred777 (Dec 17, 2013)

The Burris Tac30 and Mtac are popular, and for good reason. At 1x it's about like using a red dot, and a quick turn of the dial gets you up to 4x. Also has a decent illuminated reticle. They are in the $300-$400 range. Also visible without illumination if your battery dies or you don't need illumination. Eye relief is also pretty good, about 4inches.

The downside of the Tac30 is the whole bell rotates instead of a standard magnification dial. And the illumination control is wonky. I don't care bout flip up lens covers, so the bell moving wouldn't bother me.

For more you can get a Leupold 1-6x(vx-6 I believe, about $1000). And again gets more ridiculous from there.

I'm planning on staying in an irons division for awhile. Will likely eventually get an Mtac or Tac30.


----------



## Sicarius (Dec 17, 2013)

yeah, I kept seeing the Vortex Razor, and that's a 1400$ piece of glass. thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Eclipse (Dec 17, 2013)

A week or two ago I bought 3, 100 round boxes of Winchester .22lr at Walmart for $6 a box. Deal. Of. The. Century.


----------



## sniperfreak223 (Dec 18, 2013)

tristanroyster said:


> A week or two ago I bought 3, 100 round boxes of Winchester .22lr at Walmart for $6 a box. Deal. Of. The. Century.



I remember when you could get a 550-round brick of Winchester Wildcat .22LR at walmart for about $10...


----------



## texshred777 (Dec 18, 2013)

tristanroyster said:


> A week or two ago I bought 3, 100 round boxes of Winchester .22lr at Walmart for $6 a box. Deal. Of. The. Century.



I've been having to regularly stop at Academy and pick up the 50rd boxes of AE at $2/box. The one I go to usually has them in stock, so I get a couple boxes.


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## rekab (Dec 18, 2013)

Sicarius said:


> that's not bad.
> 
> I may see about a colt AR15 that's mostly ready.
> 
> I just don't know about the optic, some of the good ones are redonk.





texshred777 said:


> The Burris Tac30 and Mtac are popular, and for good reason. Leupold 1-6x



Check out the m223 1-4x Nikon. You can find great deals on them (around 200$ if you wait for the right sales) if you don't need an illuminated reticle. 

I'm a fan of mine at the price point. If you're spending more I'd grab the Leupold. 





If you like red dots check out Primary Arms Micro for a truly great dot at an unbelievable price.


----------



## Eclipse (Dec 20, 2013)

texshred777 said:


> I've been having to regularly stop at Academy and pick up the 50rd boxes of AE at $2/box. The one I go to usually has them in stock, so I get a couple boxes.



Closest Academy to me is about 30min. I wish it closer! That's a little far to go too often.


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## texshred777 (Dec 20, 2013)

I like the rifle.

I'm going with BCM for my upper as well.


----------



## rekab (Dec 21, 2013)

texshred777 said:


> BCM



You will not regret that. They make a fantastic product with exceptionally fast turn around even on custom options.


----------



## Sicarius (Dec 21, 2013)

Meh, I figure I'll just get a Colt CSR1518. It's pretty much what I was looking for anyway.


----------



## Church2224 (Dec 21, 2013)

BCM makes one hell of a rifle. Them, Daniel Defense, and Colt make my favorite DI ARs. 

Does BCM make ARs in 7.62? I prefer shooting higher caliber rifles. (Use to shooting M14s/MIAs, Garands and SKSs, but want something in an AR platform)

If not I will look into the Amralite AR-10 and Colt LE901


----------



## Sicarius (Dec 21, 2013)

You'd think they would, but I didn't see one when I was looking at them.

I did find out that there's a 5" Slide version of the S&W M&P 40, 580$ on Bud's.


----------



## rekab (Dec 21, 2013)

Church2224 said:


> BCM makes one hell of a rifle. Them, Daniel Defense, and Colt make my favorite DI ARs.
> 
> Does BCM make ARs in 7.62? I prefer shooting higher caliber rifles. (Use to shooting M14s/MIAs, Garands and SKSs, but want something in an AR platform)
> 
> If not I will look into the Amralite AR-10 and Colt LE901



I don't think they do. 7.62 isn't all that popular in the AR platform that I know of. If you want a different caliber 300 blackout or an AR10 are both interesting options. Neither will be cheap to shoot compared to 5.56 or 7.62 though


----------



## MetalGravy (Dec 21, 2013)

Church2224 said:


> BCM makes one hell of a rifle. Them, Daniel Defense, and Colt make my favorite DI ARs.
> 
> Does BCM make ARs in 7.62? I prefer shooting higher caliber rifles. (Use to shooting M14s/MIAs, Garands and SKSs, but want something in an AR platform)
> 
> If not I will look into the Amralite AR-10 and Colt LE901




High caliber, you say

Gun Review: .50 Beowulf Overmatch Upper | The Truth About Guns


----------



## 7stg (Dec 22, 2013)

Church2224 said:


> BCM makes one hell of a rifle. Them, Daniel Defense, and Colt make my favorite DI ARs.
> 
> Does BCM make ARs in 7.62? I prefer shooting higher caliber rifles. (Use to shooting M14s/MIAs, Garands and SKSs, but want something in an AR platform)
> 
> If not I will look into the Amralite AR-10 and Colt LE901



Black Rain Ordnance has high quality rifles chambered in .308/7.62. They are all milled, have nice components, and a good trigger. 



There are many other brands that make .308 such as Rock River Arms, dpms, Patriot Ordnance Factory, Lewis Machine & Tool, Primary Weapon Systems, Larue Tactical, RND Manufacturing Inc, and Knights Armament Company.

A couple that are a bit more rare but offer a bit more power, the Noreen Firearms BN36 which is chambered in 30-06 cost on these is budget frendly. Then there's the Nemo Omen 300 win mag which is spendy. After that it's rifles chambered for .338 as far as I know.



rekab said:


> 7.62 isn't all that popular in the AR platform that I know of.


I disagree, there are many manufactures that make 7.62x51/.308 and the ammo is everywhere and only costs slightly more than .223/5.56x45. 

7.62x51 and .308 are very similar and can usually be fired from the same gun, but there are differences in maximum pressure and case dimensions. The .308 Win cartridge is spec'ed for a bit higher pressure at max load.

.308 Winchester Cartridge Guide


----------



## BornToLooze (Dec 22, 2013)

I finally broke down and got me an evil black assault rifle












Currently has a Magpul MOE stock and pistol grip and a BCM charging handle and I'm still debating on what handguard to put on it. Right now I'm thinking either a DD RIS II or a 13.2" LaRue.

And after always swearing I would never own one, I got a wonder nine...a poor mans Sig 226





Its a Sig 2022 that came with the Sig Tac Pack. Its a light, laser and ungodly huge holster. I haven't shot it yet but I'm sure being a Sig Sauer it'll be good. Now if I could just find a holster that would fit it with the light on it. And while I could understand having a light on a carry or HD gun, what in God's name do you need a strobe light for? I turned it on in the dark and I probably wouldn't be able to hit something right in front of my gun it screwed me up so bad.


----------



## texshred777 (Dec 22, 2013)

Sicarius said:


> Meh, I figure I'll just get a Colt CSR1518. It's pretty much what I was looking for anyway.



I looked at the exact same rifle before I decided to build. Pretty decent specs for the price point.


----------



## rekab (Dec 22, 2013)

7stg said:


> I disagree, there are many manufactures that make 7.62x51/.308 and the ammo is everywhere and only costs slightly more than .223/5.56x45.
> 
> 7.62x51 and .308 are very similar and can usually be fired from the same gun, but there are differences in maximum pressure and case dimensions. The .308 Win cartridge is spec'ed for a bit higher pressure at max load.
> 
> .308 Winchester Cartridge Guide


Didn't say no one makes them, just that it's a less popular option. 
You can shoot 7.62 from a 308 chamber- going the other direction can cause issues. The general consensus in my group of shooting buddies is that the 7.62 is generally too dirty to be relied upon in the AR platform and all I've read always points to just grabbing the 308 AR or an AK if you want 7.62 instead. 
As for 308 costing slightly more: If you are seriously shooting, you can run through ammo by the case (thousand+ rounds) so that slight increase in cost makes a big difference until its time for match grade rounds (which most shooters don't buy). If you only shoot a box here and there it won't be a big enough dent in your wallet to care.
No trying to argue - just sharing my thoughts and experience


----------



## Sicarius (Dec 22, 2013)

texshred777 said:


> I looked at the exact same rifle before I decided to build. Pretty decent specs for the price point.



They're also built by a shop in TX, though, I've never been one for patriotism/national/state pride.

All it needs are Optics, a competition trigger group (stock of 6lbs seems a bit high) a couple of PMAGS, and a good comp.

Later on I'll throw down the money for one of those carbon fiber hand guards, or a better aluminum one.

Tex, in the event I actually manage to get all this junk together, you down for a range day/weekend? It'd probably end up being some time in the summer, though.


----------



## mr_rainmaker (Dec 22, 2013)

I smell arfcommers


----------



## sniperfreak223 (Dec 23, 2013)

not me...Gunboards is my home.


----------



## BlindingLight7 (Dec 23, 2013)

Hey guys, I entered into a AR15 design contest and was chosen as a finalist (top 10 out of about 3,300)

The prize? THE EXACT GUN I DESIGNED.






If you like it, go *LIKE *it on the page, it would be much appreciated :3

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...742913.-2207520000.1387819448.&type=3&theater


----------



## 7stg (Dec 23, 2013)

Mikhail Kalashnikov the creator of the AK-47 has passed away at 94


----------



## texshred777 (Dec 24, 2013)

Sicarius said:


> They're also built by a shop in TX, though, I've never been one for patriotism/national/state pride.
> 
> All it needs are Optics, a competition trigger group (stock of 6lbs seems a bit high) a couple of PMAGS, and a good comp.
> 
> ...



I prefer a single stage in the neighborhood of 4lbs, but a crisp 5.5-6 isn't bad.

The MI SS gets a lot of love for a decent lightweight free floater. I'll likely go with one, I don't need rails galore. A flashlight perhaps, but nothing else. 

Yeah, I'm down for a range meetup. May I suggest this place..
Best of the West Shooting Sports

Everything from typical rifle range(out to 1000yds), pistol lanes, skeet shooting, and tactical bays.
That said, shooting for free at the ranch is good too.

Not on ar15.com, though have looked through there from time to time. The amount of silly "mil spec this, mil spec that" is amusing, though.


----------



## Sicarius (Dec 27, 2013)

may have to look into that. If I am in the Austin area it'd probably be around the 4th of July because of the Rooster Teeth Expo thing. 



That dude's Sup'd up Sig AR-15 has the stock I want. Also includes a lot of good info.


----------



## texshred777 (Dec 27, 2013)

Sweet, PM me around then. I may be out in CA, depending on how much time I take off.


----------



## BornToLooze (Jan 26, 2014)

Did a little upgrading.






Got a Magpul stock, pistol grip, and VFG, GG&G rail, Troy battle sights, and a Primary Arms red dot.


----------



## Bevo (Feb 1, 2014)

Hello gun guys!

I need your help, I'm writing a book with lots of action and military type themes. I am doing well but need some guns that are not main stream.
The Barrett 50 cal I like but something that powerfull but different would be good.

A big hand gun would be good, a Desert Eagle would be great but something modern but in the same vane.
Machine guns I know the usual but again something modern and different.

Different caliber bullets would be interesting as well as futuristic shapes.

If you have links to them that would be really helpful.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## HUGH JAYNUS (Feb 2, 2014)

i'll just leave this here....




yes that is a plasma cutter from Dead Space.
https://www.facebook.com/SteampunkGunsmith
and the guys link if someone likes it enough to buy it


----------



## dedsouth333 (Feb 2, 2014)

Holy shit! There's a gun thread on here? 

That's awesome!


----------



## sniperfreak223 (Feb 2, 2014)

of course...even though most of this stuff is too modern and tacti-cool for my liking.


----------



## dedsouth333 (Feb 6, 2014)

I hear ya'. I can't lie though, I like old and new style guns. I've owned everything from an old Winchester lever-action .30-30 to a tac'd out Mossberg 500. I've pretty much sold off everything at this point. Except my 1911. That one's not going anywhere, haha. 
That's my baby.


----------



## Church2224 (Feb 6, 2014)

I got to check out a Tavor yesterday....

Best rifle I have ever put my hands on.


----------



## thrsher (Feb 6, 2014)

my girl was being a real hardass about me getting a gun and she suprised me with a shotgun for xmas 12! she done good!


----------



## dedsouth333 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bevo said:


> Hello gun guys!
> 
> I need your help, I'm writing a book with lots of action and military type themes. I am doing well but need some guns that are not main stream.
> The Barrett 50 cal I like but something that powerfull but different would be good.
> ...



Military themes can be a pain when it comes to futuristic stuff. 

Like the Barrett, it's pretty rarely used as it is, iirc. Most military snipers use .308 caliber rifles because the .50 is used for extremely long distance shots and the ammo is extremely expensive.

I can't really think of a replacement for the Desert Eagle either. Maybe the Smith & Wesson .500, but the massive amount of recoil would render it completely useless for a rapid fire scenario. 

Rifles aren't as bad. You can look into some bull-pup designs. They're pretty futuristic looking and are very practical.

Calibers are a bit of a pain as well. The thing about military ammo is that they only buy cheap and extremely mass produced calibers for the most part. I don't know how far in the future you're setting your story, but the American military has been using the same rifle caliber since the '60s and they didn't retire the 1911 (which was introduced in 1911, haha) or it's caliber for handguns until the '80s if I'm not mistaken (I think the Navy may still carry 1911s but I'm not sure). 

I mean if you're setting it very far in the future then just research ballistics of various calibers and make something up. 

Also, if you are going really far into the future then caseless ammo is almost a must. Ammo is just flat out not futuristic if it's not caseless or lasers.


----------



## shanejohnson02 (Feb 6, 2014)

Bevo said:


> Hello gun guys!
> 
> I need your help, I'm writing a book with lots of action and military type themes. I am doing well but need some guns that are not main stream.
> The Barrett 50 cal I like but something that powerfull but different would be good.
> ...



As someone who has been a precision shooter in combat (NOT a sniper...a DM, for those who know what that is), I can offer some insight.

1) You don't need a large caliber to do serious damage with a pistol. 9mm was chosen over .45 because you can carry more ammo, shoot faster, and put more rounds on target more easily with less recoil than with a 45. 17 rounds of 9mm vs 9 rounds of 45? yes please. ANY day. There are a TON of futuistic designs out there though. Check out any of the following:

O'Dwyer VLE
Chiappa Rhino
Rossi Cyclops
FN FiveSeveN
Beretta Storm
Beretta Neos
Smith & Wesson CORE
Smith & Wesson V-COMP
Any highly upgraded race gun (Just google "race gun" and you'll see what I mean)

2) The same is true of rifles. Different calibers are chosen for their unique abilities. 7.62x51 is the go-to round, but recently almost all of our bolt guns are being upgraded to .300 Winchester Magnum. Both of those are good all-purpose rounds, but are very loud and, due to their size, don't allow you to carry much ammo. The Barrett is cool, but it's even more limiting on ammo (even though you have more ammo options available...look up SLAP / SLAP-T and Raufoss ammo). If you want a decent round that's easily suppressed, it's hard to beat good ol' 5.56x45mm. 

As far as "futuristic", check these out:

Sig Tac2
XLR Evolution chassis (basically can be matched with any rifle).
MD Tactical LSS chassis
Pretty much any Arctic Warfare / Accuracy International chassis
VS-8

Things to look for in modern precision rifles:
Muzzle brake
Wide forearm
Adjustable cheekpiece / butt plate
Bipod / Monopod setup
Variable first-focal plane scope (I use 5-20x50) with either an ARD or sunshade
Bubble Level

Regular rifles (Not necessarily precision, but still pretty awesome / futuristic):
XM8
H&K G36
FN P90
H&K MP7
AN-94


3) Machine guns. I carried a SAW for a tour in the sandbox, so I know a little bit about them. Some cooler-looking ones:

Mk 48 Mod 0
Airborne SAW (short barrel, collapsible buttstock, rails everywhere).
XM25
XM307
12.7mm Kord


----------



## dedsouth333 (Feb 6, 2014)

^+1 to all that. You also might check out the Beretta 90TWO. It's basically the same as the M9 but more futuristic looking.


----------



## -42- (Feb 6, 2014)

Bevo said:


> Hello gun guys!
> 
> I need your help, I'm writing a book with lots of action and military type themes. I am doing well but need some guns that are not main stream.
> The Barrett 50 cal I like but something that powerfull but different would be good.
> ...


For high power sniper rifles looking into guns chambered in 338 Lapua could be cool. 

High powered handguns are generally considered gimmicks by military/law enforcement types but if you want gimmicky the Taurus Judge is as gimmicky as gimmicky gets. Otherwise 10mm and 45 ACP are both popular.


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## sniperfreak223 (Feb 7, 2014)

-42- said:


> For high power sniper rifles looking into guns chambered in 338 Lapua could be cool.
> 
> High powered handguns are generally considered gimmicks by military/law enforcement types but if you want gimmicky the Taurus Judge is as gimmicky as gimmicky gets. Otherwise 10mm and 45 ACP are both popular.



+1 to this. I shoot 1,000 meter matches and absolutely LOVE the .338 Lapua. If there's anything the Finns know how to do right, it's sniper rifles.


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## BornToLooze (Feb 7, 2014)

A couple ideas for handguns,

AMT Automag, Wildey Hunter, Sig 220 Sport, Beretta 93R, HK MP7, TDI Vector with no stock

Rifles
FN F2000, FAD, IMI Tavor, pretty much any bullpup is going to look futuristic

And for a sniper rifle, I would go with something chambered in .338. For an assault rifle, you could either stick with the standard 5.56 or go with something like 300 Blackout or 6.8 SPC.

Also, Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV and Video Games is going to be your best friend. Just find a game or movie you like the guns in and it'll show you what they all are, any mods they have done, ect.


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## dedsouth333 (Feb 7, 2014)

There's always the .50 Beowulf and 6.5 Grendal, too.


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## BornToLooze (Feb 7, 2014)

Or if you really want a hell of a rifle, 950 JDJ


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## Cabinet (Feb 7, 2014)

I think that's a dildo


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## sniperfreak223 (Feb 7, 2014)

BornToLooze said:


> Or if you really want a hell of a rifle, 950 JDJ




Nah...real men need a 20mm, like a Finnish Lahti, Swiss/German Solothurn or Japanese Type 99 ATR. I had the opportunity to get some "hands on" time with a Lahti a few years back, it was a hell of an experience.


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 7, 2014)

So yeah, I won that contest.


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## dedsouth333 (Feb 7, 2014)

That's bad ass, man! Congrats!


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## shanejohnson02 (Feb 7, 2014)

Also as a side note...since we're talking "Futuristic" here, the tendency has been for rounds to get smaller and more effective over the years.

For instance, some popular 600 / 1000yd rounds are .243 Winchester (the one I use), 6mmBR, .284 Winchester, .260 remington, 6.5-284. 

Part of the reasoning is that a smaller diameter bullet of the same mass as a larger bullet has more sectional density (i.e., it's thicker from front to rear). So a .243, even though it's a smaller round than a .308, is actually still supersonic at 1000 yards (with modern match loads shooting 95-107 grain bullets). Add to that the fact that recoil is more manageable with a smaller round and there you have it.

Another trend to keep in mind is metallurgy. Mono-metal bullets are gaining popularity (typically called monolithic), as well as molybdenum-coated. Then there's the Hornady rounds (one of my favorites, right up there with Berger VLD's and Sierra MK's) that have a plastic aerodynamic tip. It vaporizes on impact and essentially leaves you with a nasty hollowpoint round.

That said, the smallest I'd be willing to go for combat purposes is a 5.56.


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## Bevo (Feb 7, 2014)

Just amazing guys that was exactly what I needed!

The story is based in todays time with two ex military team mates fighting each other, one is protecting a new material that could be used to power the world and the other wants it to power weapons. Classic good vs bad with some history thrown in with gun fights in Turkey, The arctic, a container ship and a sniper battle in the towers of New York.

With some of your suggestions this will be pretty fun to write!
I like great books where the action is so hard and fast that you just don't or can't put the book down, this is what I am doing.

Once its done I will give it to you guys for free download as long as you post a review.

Thanks!!


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## BornToLooze (Feb 7, 2014)

If it's todays time and if they're ex-military I would say for the good guy something along the lines of an AAC Honey Badger, Remington ACR or something along those lines for Turkey and the arctic, an AR10, FN Scar-H or a Mk. 14 EBR for the sniper battle, and either a sub-gun like an MP5 or UMP or some type of bullpup for the container ship. And for a sidearm something like a 1911 or a HK 45c.

For the bad guy, I would go with the ultimate "bad guy guns" an AK 47/74, some kind of short barreled AK for the container ship, and a Dragnov for the sniper battle. And for him I would go with a sidearm that's a little over kill, something along the lines of a Desert Eagle, Automag, or a Wildey.


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## shanejohnson02 (Feb 8, 2014)

Something else to throw in the mix: If they're "ex-military", what branch did they serve in? Were they in any special units? Rangers? SF? Seals? MARSOC? Delta?

The different units will have different weapons. I know in a gunfight, I'm comfortable with just a simple iron-sights M4 and an M9 for backup, with a full combat load (after carrying a saw, that's pretty light). You'll find if you talk to those guys that a lot of the mall-ninja type of "tacticool" toys aren't really used, as they just add to the weight you have to carry around.

Personal anecdote: A lot of guys in my unit when we first deployed bought big knives, like KaBAR's, ginormous Rambo-ish bowie knives, and those cheesy mini ninja swords. I had the luck of befriending a former Ranger who taught me the value of a light load...I ended up carrying a seal pup fixed blade knife, which is way smaller than a K-Bar or some such.

Realistically speaking, I wouldn't worry about switching out weapons too many times. Once you find something you're comfortable with, you use it. 

So, for the good guy, I would realistically load him out with an M4 or H&K G36, with either an M9 or M11 for the sidearm. The M4 would be fine for the container ship...they are used for that all the time. For a "sniper" situation, unless the guy has been to sniper school, chances are he won't know a whole lot about it. I'd just throw an ACOG on the M4 and have him use that. That would give you a very real-life and believable loadout.

For the bad guy, anything goes....but given that they served together, I'd give him something similar.


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## Bevo (Feb 8, 2014)

Both guys are Marines who met in basic training and fought together off and on around the world then getting into special black projects. The bad guy watched his friend get all the glory and the good jobs while he got the crap and didn't see the value of saving the country. 

I think I am seeing that as long term military men they would stay with something they know and trust, the standard weapons would not change much.
Snipers are a different story, I can see that in my case a great old school well respected rifle vs a modern specialty or rare gun would be a great battle.

I am a knife guy so have that covered, Zero Tolerance and Benchmade are the players, I may even throw in a classic Italian switchblade.

Again great information!
Thanks!


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## TylerEstes (Feb 10, 2014)

I have a Smith & Wesson Bodyguard .380. I've always had a thing for tiny pistols. Not really sure why.


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## mr_rainmaker (Feb 11, 2014)

awww how cute....


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## BlindingLight7 (Feb 14, 2014)

My rifles coming along nicely. Ya think?


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## rekab (Feb 16, 2014)

TylerEstes said:


> I have a Smith & Wesson Bodyguard .380. I've always had a thing for tiny pistols. Not really sure why.



I had one of those when they first came out. Other than the weak design of the slide retaining pin I loved it. SW didn't issue a recall for this (they did recall for other reasons) that I know of but it was an issue on mine and a friends. Basically the slide retention pin has a weak spring and designed in such a way that repeated firing can slowly work the pin out and your slide will fly off. After I sent mine in to SW it never happened again but it left me feeling uneasy about it. I've since sold it and moved on to a Sig that was a very worthwhile upgrade.


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## BornToLooze (Feb 18, 2014)

I'll post some more pictures tomorrow when I get the rest of my stuff in.


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