# Speculating, questions (8string build)



## Empryrean (Jan 26, 2011)

Okay, so basically; my woodshop teacher is letting me build an 8 string guitar 
But theres a major problem that has been bugging me. I plan to make it neck thru, how will I be sure that the bridge and nut are the same height? I would prefer that I could play the thing when I'm done making it


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## jwatso89 (Jan 26, 2011)

I just say this from watching other build thread, but i believe when you have your neck/center-of-the-body piece of wood all glued together (if your doing a multi piece neck), then you can either plane it if you have access to a planer, or like i saw in scherzo's build, use a router to level the top using a jig to keep the router bit a constant distance from your working surface... kinda hard to explain, ill see if i can find a pic...


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## jwatso89 (Jan 26, 2011)

something like that is what i see being done a lot on builds, just something to keep your router a constant distance from the wood you're working on


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 26, 2011)

Having your nut and bridge level will have A LOT to do with what hardware you go with and the installation method of said hardware. 

Planing the board will only mean the wood is going to be at the same level, not the hardware. Not to mention, it won't take the height of the fretboard into account.


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## scherzo1928 (Jan 26, 2011)

If you use an LP or carvin style nut, which go at the end of the fretboard, not on the fretboard itself, all you need to do is file the bottom of the nut, or shim it. At least if the neck is properly leveled with the body. Well, you could also slightly recess the bridge, but there's a bit more wotk to be done on that.

But really, like Max said, and since he's always right, you just have to measure the hardware, and then see if you need to do anything at all.


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## Empryrean (Jan 26, 2011)

Okay, I apologize for not stating before; 
I plan to use a 0 fret instead of actually installing a nut, but lets say that the fretbboard is too thick and the bridge saddles aren't high enough, what exactly could I do in this instance?
my only conclusion is that I would have to remove the bridge, and add a block of wood to sort of "shim" the bridge higher.

Thank you for all of your input by far guys!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 26, 2011)

Empryrean said:


> Okay, I apologize for not stating before;
> I plan to use a 0 fret instead of actually installing a nut, but lets say that the fretbboard is too thick and the bridge saddles aren't high enough, what exactly could I do in this instance?
> my only conclusion is that I would have to remove the bridge, and add a block of wood to sort of "shim" the bridge higher.
> 
> Thank you for all of your input by far guys!



You're still going to have to use a nut, even if you use a zero fret. You'll also still have to calculate the added height of the string termination point (nut/zero fret). 

As for the bridge, you could shim it (put a block of wood under it), but it's FAR more ideal to make 10000000 measurements and cut only once to get everything to line up the way you want it. Just about 90% of building guitars is making proper measurements, it's not all "fun with saws".


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## Empryrean (Jan 26, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You're still going to have to use a nut, even if you use a zero fret. You'll also still have to calculate the added height of the string termination point (nut/zero fret).
> 
> As for the bridge, you could shim it (put a block of wood under it), but it's FAR more ideal to make 10000000 measurements and cut only once to get everything to line up the way you want it. Just about 90% of building guitars is making proper measurements, it's not all "fun with saws".



I was hoping that I could just stick to having a flat piece of wood and glue the fb on top then stick the bridge on and glue the wings. What exactly would I cut in the instance that the board is too thick in this case?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 26, 2011)

Empryrean said:


> I was hoping that I could just stick to having a flat piece of wood and glue the fb on top then stick the bridge on and glue the wings. What exactly would I cut in the instance that the board is too thick in this case?



Well, what you would do is measure your neck, board, body, and planned hardware to make sure that it isn't too thick once you glue and install everything. It's really not rocket science and takes little more than basic measuring tools. 

If the board and neck are too thick, just plane them down a little to make them thinner. If the body is too thick do the same.


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## scherzo1928 (Jan 26, 2011)

you can also plane the back of the fretboard to make it a bit thinner.

edit: seems like a nice moment for this meme I posted in the now gone meme's thread.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 26, 2011)

scherzo1928 said:


> you can also plane the back of the fretboard to make it a bit thinner.



 

That's what I meant, I should have clarified. Especially if you're using an aftermarket, pre-radius'd board such as those from LMII like a lot of other builders.


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## scherzo1928 (Jan 26, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's what I meant, I should have clarified. Especially if you're using an aftermarket, pre-radius'd board such as those from LMII like a lot of other builders.


 
yeah, look at my edit.
sneakyy


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## Empryrean (Jan 26, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's what I meant, I should have clarified. Especially if you're using an aftermarket, pre-radius'd board such as those from LMII like a lot of other builders.



Hehe.. I wouldn't go as far as calling myself a _builder_ this will actually be my first guitar if it follows through well 
I actually am going to use a bloodwood board from lmii, and I recall from Troy's(troyguitar) build, his was rather thick,though he didn't have to plan the board from what I saw and it seems to have worked out fine for him. Maybe I'm just being freakishly paranoid about the worst, again; thank you guys for chiming in; maybe I'll mess with the title and change my op when I start taking pictures for the build.


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## scherzo1928 (Jan 26, 2011)

the Lmii boards are quite thick for an electric. Somewhere aroun 8-9mm I think. I did have to use my router jig on it to get it where I wanted. Took off about 2.5mm.

Those 8-9 mm are just perfect for acoustics though (I guess that's why they sell them that thick). I love classicals with huuuuuge chunks of wood as fingerboards, particularly if it's ebony.


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## Empryrean (Jan 30, 2011)

Okay, here goes:

I've gotten to this so far guys:
walnut neck w/ white limba wings and a bloodwood fb.

Since the wings are a bit shorter than I imagined they'd be when I finished them, would you guys give me some advice on tops?

I'm considering either;
-maple (we've got plenty, and I like the contrast between it and walnut)
-Ash (i found a pretty nice piece of it in the lumber room)
or possibly(i'll find these somewhere)
rosewood
claro walnut
Sipo mahogany
wenge
Lati (white wenge)

This is gonna be one hell of a first build


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## Empryrean (Jan 31, 2011)

Where on earth does the bridge placement make the most sense? 
I know I don't play with my hand directly above my leg, it's slightly to the right of where my leg would fit on the lower half of the guitar(from a sitting perspective). Would a better way of placing it be to measure from the end of the body instead?


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## Empryrean (Feb 1, 2011)

no one? I suppose I'll just measure a few of my guitars and kinda figure out where I want it then. Thanks everyone who chimed in!


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## Empryrean (Feb 5, 2011)

Well shit I think I've messed up but oh well; heres some pics of the progress so far

wings




cut












headstock




broken




fretboard arrives








needs better access


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## Aerospace274 (Feb 5, 2011)

A one piece neck on a neck through? Is that recommended?


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## Empryrean (Feb 5, 2011)

Aerospace274 said:


> A one piece neck on a neck through? Is that recommended?





Empryrean said:


> SirMyghin do you think a plain walnut neck would effect the stability in any way?





SirMyghin said:


> No, this thing is rock freaking solid. And it would avoid the differential expansion causing slight 'creases' between the wood types. This is easily taken care of with steel wool, but less maintenance otherwise.





scherzo1928 said:


> Nah, I think you could use a single piece of walnut for a neckthrough neck without any problems. Its really solid.




http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/luthiery-modifications-customizations/144323-walnut-necks.html


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## Empryrean (Feb 5, 2011)

String spacing, and neck taper; whos got the intel on these?


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## caparison_x (Feb 5, 2011)

Cant wait to see how this turns out.

Is that truss rod like the jp6 style truss system ? with the adjustment made at the heel of the neck ?


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## Empryrean (Feb 5, 2011)

caparison_x said:


> Cant wait to see how this turns out.
> 
> Is that truss rod like the jp6 style truss system ? with the adjustment made at the heel of the neck ?



I think so sir! probably not that_ exact_ same brand, but the design must be derived from it


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## SirMyghin (Feb 5, 2011)

Aerospace274 said:


> A one piece neck on a neck through? Is that recommended?



There is no problem with a single piece neck through guitar.


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## littlephil (Feb 5, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> There is no problem with a single piece neck through guitar.


This.
Unless its a bad piece of wood or it isn't dried properly, you should have no problems at all.


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## Andrew_B (Feb 7, 2011)

draw it out fullsize, that will help you figure out your string spacing and the height of your nut/fingerboard in regards to your saddle height.
and dont forget to account for fret height.


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## Empryrean (Feb 7, 2011)

Andrew_B said:


> draw it out fullsize, that will help you figure out your string spacing and the height of your nut/fingerboard in regards to your saddle height.
> and dont forget to account for fret height.



Thank you so much andrew! (how have your builds been going by the way?)
It's been killing me how little attention my threads get in regards to urgency, i digress, I've tried tracing the slots in my Schecter and overlapping them so that I have 8, it seems to look okay, is there a flaw in this by any chance?


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## flo (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi!
cool to see you gettig into building
Looks nice so far!

As for a top wood, I say take the most awesome looking piece. I personaly love maple, you're right it looks nice next to walnut, especially when finished. 

String spacing... The spacing on the bridge is determined by almost all bridges isn't it? Unless you use single string bridges. However the spacing is usually 10mm.
At the nut most sixstring guitars have got 7mm spacing, but sevens and eights usually have got 6.5 mm.

As for the bridge placement I think you're right, take a guitar you like and copy the placement from it. The further away from the headstock however, the better your balance will be. I tink you know that it has to fit with your scale length, the scale length is pretty much exactly the speaking length of the high e string, all the other string will be a little longer so the saddles will be moved backwards slightly.
It's easiest to measure from the 12th fret, it is exactly in the middle of the scale, or from 24th wich will be 1/4 of the scale.

Good choice to go with a zero fret. When you level the frets later on, just don't level the zero fret so it's a tiny bit higher than the other frets to avoid buzz.

Leveling fets is a pain in the ass to be honest, but don't get frustrated when you come to the point. It's completely normal that some frets will stick up a little and can usually be fixed by filing the frets down to the same level. U didn't ask about this yet dd you? Sorry...

If you're unsure about the hight of the bridge etc. I suggest in the worst case to take a piece of sparewood and level it perfectly. Then you place the bridge and the fretboard(with the zero fret installed), fasten them somehow on the testneck/body, put on a string and see what it does. Then you see if you have to sand the fretboard down a little or do something on the body etc.
In my newest build I didn't have to do any of the kind, you have seen it. --> Here


Good luck with your project
hope I could help


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## Empryrean (Feb 9, 2011)

flo said:


> Good luck with your project
> hope I could help



WOW! uber-sweet post, thank you once again flo!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Feb 9, 2011)

Looking good Tommeh!


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## flo (Feb 9, 2011)

One more thing about installing frets - again, you didn't ask, but I think the question will arise sooner or later. 

I messed up my first couple of fretboards, getting the frets down is (at least for me) difficult. I used a hammer in my first few attempts, wich some say works best... not for me...
The method I use now is using one of these






protect the fretboard and the frets with pieces os scrapwood, place the fret and push it in gently with the vice. start at one edge of the slot and work your way to the other side. 

There is another method using an arm press and inserts from Steward McDonald, but I haven't tryed them, can't say if they work well.

Again, do yourself a favour and make a tryout fretboard before you mess up your beautiful piece of bloodywood.
Just take a scrap piece of maple, cut it to about the same size as the fretboad, cut some slots (don't care about the distances) with a 0.6mm saw. Then make a radius with a belt sander (no need to be exact) and try. There are a lot of useful videos on the topic on Youtube aswell. Maybe takes an hour or two, but you'll learn alot. IMO.


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## Andrew_B (Feb 9, 2011)

Empryrean said:


> Thank you so much andrew! (how have your builds been going by the way?)
> It's been killing me how little attention my threads get in regards to urgency, i digress, I've tried tracing the slots in my Schecter and overlapping them so that I have 8, it seems to look okay, is there a flaw in this by any chance?




no worries, flo has a good post up there with the info you need

i was about to start building a few rg inspired guitars and a singlecut prototype towards the end of last year, but i got flooded with repair work...
whos idea was it for me to start doing repairs?  lol
hopefully i can start up some builds again soon though.

have fun with your build, playing an instrument you have made is a great feeling 

oh and i use the stewmac press inserts 
i used to use them in the drill press but i have upgraded to a 2tonne arbour press now 
work fine, just have to make sure your radius is nice and even along your board


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## Prydogga (Feb 11, 2011)

Good luck on this one Tommy!


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## Empryrean (Feb 11, 2011)

Neck routed








trying to make the truss rod fit (& taking down some for the top as well )




OFF!


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## flo (Feb 12, 2011)

looking great dude!


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## scherzo1928 (Feb 12, 2011)

That looks quite nice!


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## Empryrean (Feb 15, 2011)

I fucked up guys, seriously 

but here are some pics. it must be finished. dumb mistake
Login | Facebook


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## Stealthdjentstic (Feb 15, 2011)

Keep up the work and pics dude 

Also nice sweater


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## Empryrean (Feb 15, 2011)

I try my best to flash my acrylic wear


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## Empryrean (Feb 17, 2011)




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## Empryrean (Feb 18, 2011)

Glued the other side today; not sure if anyone is even watching this thread so I'll mark this as the last update until I finish. if ever


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## tacotiklah (Feb 18, 2011)

Empryrean said:


> Glued the other side today; not sure if anyone is even watching this thread so I'll mark this as the last update until I finish. if ever



I'm watching it, although I have no clue as to how to help you. (i'm still reading up on all that I can about luthiery)

But just know that some people wanna see more.


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## scherzo1928 (Feb 19, 2011)

What did you use to stop glue from entering the fret slots?

Also, shweet machinery in the shop!


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## idunno (Feb 19, 2011)

looks like chopped up creditcards?


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## in-pursuit (Feb 20, 2011)

keen to see how this turns out!


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## Empryrean (Feb 22, 2011)

Question; Would using a grinder to take off fret tangs work?


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## scherzo1928 (Feb 23, 2011)

Yep, just be VERY careful. If you have a belt sander or drum sander, that could work as well. If not, just grab a file and go at it for a while.


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## Empryrean (Feb 23, 2011)

Just ordered some fretwire, I'll try some at school with the grinder, and if all else fails, I'll take my hand with a few mill files. Out of curiosity, can I cut them easily with wire cutters? I'd rather save $30 if I can


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## Empryrean (Feb 23, 2011)

Results: Success!! I've since then glued the other side, and sanded it down in the drum sander, pictures 

other side





looks okay




success! 




blockplaned most of the bulk




sanded 









measuring and cutting the taper tomorrow.


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## flo (Feb 24, 2011)

Empryrean said:


> Just ordered some fretwire, I'll try some at school with the grinder, and if all else fails, I'll take my hand with a few mill files. Out of curiosity, can I cut them easily with wire cutters? I'd rather save $30 if I can




A wire cutter should work with standard fretwire, it's fairly soft. 

Man, I love that bloodwood


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## Empryrean (Mar 15, 2011)

Well, here ya go;




spokeshave practice






...


















ugh weekends D:




NEW DOG






...done?



NOO AH gagspasm!!


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## scherzo1928 (Mar 15, 2011)

That is going to be a really sexy guitar.


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## Empryrean (Mar 16, 2011)

I started beveling the frets today, they came out quite well I think 
I'm a bit unsure if you guys can tell what happened with the last three frets so I'll simply state it: I FUCKING RAN OUT OF FRETWIRE SHITFUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK SHIT 

Everything else is going quite smoothly though


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## Empryrean (Mar 28, 2011)

Okay, so 21 frets; I can live with that, its the lower 5 frets that really give this a new set of notes anyway.
I've been sanding the shit outta the neck/body carve thing, i'm done. I've since last update glued the wings and started sanding for a surprise.




GLUED




sleep tight












Aww yeah look at that access 




Imagine an awkward asian kid holding it; wait you don't have to!




time to sand




What a mess!




what tool to use for this mess...



I've got it!




but nahh 




that did a lot




shaping the tail end





thats it so far guys! my thumb is hella raw from sanding with that 30 grit
edit:



long face xD


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## BlackMastodon (Mar 28, 2011)

It's looking real sweet man. I wish I knew then what I know not about guitars, I would've taken my guitar project a lot more seriously (and a lot less stupid) when I was in high school.


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## scherzo1928 (Mar 29, 2011)

soooo, what kind of top will it have?


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## Empryrean (Mar 29, 2011)

scherzo1928 said:


> soooo, what kind of top will it have?



it's a 'top'-secret. 






















get it?


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## Nublet (Mar 29, 2011)

Really nice looking build! Really wish I wasn't just all thumbs since building a guitar seems _QUITE_ fun and rewarding. How long you reckon it'll take before we see it in epic shreddage action on youtube?


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## Empryrean (May 31, 2011)

Well guys 
schools over for this senior


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## BlackMastodon (May 31, 2011)

I hope that doesn't mean that the work on the guitar is also over. Is your shop teacher cool enough to let you come back to work on it at later dates?


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## Empryrean (May 31, 2011)

So basically she's done


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## scherzo1928 (Jun 1, 2011)

I like the look of it. Extra points for the zero fret.

PS, get 1 foot of fret wire, it's like 2 bucks.


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## Musza (Jun 1, 2011)

more photos!


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## ShadowFactoryX (Jun 1, 2011)

pretty sweet, i wish i woulda done this when i was in school


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## Empryrean (Jun 1, 2011)

scherzo1928 said:


> I like the look of it. Extra points for the zero fret.
> 
> PS, get 1 foot of fret wire, it's like 2 bucks.



I shall fret the rest of her when I refret one of my 7s, I know I'll have excess 





Musza said:


> more photos!


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## BlackMastodon (Jun 1, 2011)

Looks awesome. What did you use to finish the back of the neck?


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## Empryrean (Jun 2, 2011)

BlackMastodon said:


> Looks awesome. What did you use to finish the back of the neck?



Lacquer... >_>
bleh, it's thin though, so I can still feel all that juicy walnut!


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## Devotion (Jun 2, 2011)

Is it me or an optical illusion, but the strings don't seem to be spaced evenly at the 0-fret? Sweet axe though, be proud of your work!!


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## CD1221 (Jun 2, 2011)

^

This.


I think you still need a nut, not to set string height, but to maintain correct spacing.

I will say, it looks awesome. Bloody good job.


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