# Gibson Les Pauls



## tehgriffmeister (Oct 10, 2012)

Okay. I'm in a band with a kid that is absolutely and completely convinced that there is not a single guitar better than the gibson les paul. He even goes as far as to behave like a racist and say that Americans are better at building guitars than Japan simply because they're Americans. This started because of the ESP navigator series Les Paul shapes. He refuses to believe they could match up with "REAL" Les Pauls. I personally am not good with gear. Anyone wanna help me out with some guitars that the Gibson Les Paul couldn't hold a candle to? I know they're out there.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 10, 2012)

Find some Japanese LPs like Grecos, Tokais, Orvilles, or Elitist Epiphone. 

Hell, even though Edwards (by ESP) are partially Chinese made, I bet it can go against a Paul.


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## tehgriffmeister (Oct 10, 2012)

I've actually heard not a single bad thing about edwards. ANY edwards. They're all fantastic from things I've heard and reviews I've read.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 10, 2012)

Well all the guitars I listed usually run in the $500 - $1000 area. So maybe give them a look?


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## 3074326 (Oct 10, 2012)

What's the point of arguing? They are actually nice guitars and it's just his opinion. Doesn't really sound like he's willing to change it, either.

As far as mass production goes, Gibson is at or near the top. There are plenty of companies doing great LP style guitars.. But if I want a Les Paul sound, I'm going to use Gibson.

That being said, if he can't respect a well-built guitar from another country or manufacturer, he's a victim of hype. But he's not far off. I'd put a Gibson up against any other mass-production guitar and feel pretty good about its quality compared to whatever it's up against.


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## tehgriffmeister (Oct 10, 2012)

Oh no, it's not his opinion that makes it, er, bad. It's the fact that he's absolutely and completely convinced there is not a single guitar that could possibly surpass a gibson les paul.


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## 3074326 (Oct 10, 2012)

tehgriffmeister said:


> Oh no, it's not his opinion that makes it, er, bad. It's the fact that he's absolutely and completely convinced there is not a single guitar that could possibly surpass a gibson les paul.



I get that, but some people can't be reasoned with. I've noticed that many of those people are Gibson fans. Probably not worth the effort. 

You can get a really nice custom guitar built for the price of a basic Les Paul Custom. That should be enough to at least make him think about it not being the end-all of guitars. The Jackson customs I've played are of higher quality for the same price.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 10, 2012)

3074326 said:


> I get that, but some people can't be reasoned with.



This is true... I've seen this quite a bit. 

...I still say buy one of those because the more the merrier.


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## tehgriffmeister (Oct 10, 2012)

3074326 said:


> I get that, but some people can't be reasoned with. I've noticed that many of those people are Gibson fans. Probably not worth the effort.
> 
> You can get a really nice custom guitar built for the price of a basic Les Paul Custom. That should be enough to at least make him think about it not being the end-all of guitars. The Jackson customs I've played are of higher quality for the same price.



Gibson fan is a complete understatement. He takes it to this new extreme the likes of which I've never seen before.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 10, 2012)

Heres another suggestion:

Build a Warmoth Les Paul. It won't be the same scale (25.5 instead of 24.75), but you can spec it however you'd like and it will still be cheaper than a LPC.


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## tehgriffmeister (Oct 10, 2012)

That'd be fantastic if he didn't think bolt on necks were of the devil. I remember showing him an ibanez custom shop guitar. BEAUTIFUL guitar in every way. He thinks it's price should be dropped by 2000 dollars simply due to the bolt on neck and he then went on to say his 400 dollar epiphone les paul is better


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 10, 2012)

tehgriffmeister said:


> if he didn't think bolt on necks were of the devil.



And this is sure-fire proof that he'll never be converted. One of the biggest myths in guitar.


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## tehgriffmeister (Oct 10, 2012)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And this is sure-fire proof that he'll never be converted. One of the biggest myths in guitar.



I'm the bassist in my band. And my bass is neck thru and I prefer it simply for the barely there heel. But if I found a bass that in every way was better than mine, but had a bolt on, I'd be all over it. The same applies to guitars for me.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 10, 2012)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Heres another suggestion:
> 
> Build a Warmoth Les Paul. It won't be the same scale (25.5 instead of 24.75), but you can spec it however you'd like and it will still be cheaper than a LPC.


 
You can get 24.75 conversion necks from Warmoth. You can't, however, get anything but bolt-on .

EDIT: Posted before reading the next posts, lol.


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## BucketheadRules (Oct 10, 2012)

Push his Les Paul over and tell him to watch what happens to the headstock.

Then do the same to a Telecaster.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 10, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> Push his Les Paul over and tell him to watch what happens to the headstock.
> 
> Then do the same to a Telecaster.


 
And then even if _both_ of them break, get a new neck for the tele and swap it out yourself in two minutes instead of paying a luthier to repair it .


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## BucketheadRules (Oct 10, 2012)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> And then even if _both_ of them break, get a new neck for the tele and swap it out yourself in two minutes instead of paying a luthier to repair it .



Indeed 

Unlikely that the Tele would break anyway, given that it was actually _designed properly._


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## 74n4LL0 (Oct 10, 2012)

Well gibson has this reamovable headstock feature
some other guitars have this features but gibson is the best here


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 10, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> given that it was actually _designed properly._


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## jbard (Oct 10, 2012)

I'm convinced any Navigator will meet or blow away the quality of any Gibson made at the same price point and style they are based off of. The attention to detail and adherence to McCarthy 50s era Gibson build standards has been there on every one I've played.


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## Vinchester (Oct 10, 2012)

It's just that Gibson has the biggest brand mojo. Ever. It's useless trying to convince a brand fanatic to open their mind lol.


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## Nile (Oct 10, 2012)

Ask him to prove it. Simply prove it. And make him try to prove bolt ons are bad.


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## Sang-Drax (Oct 10, 2012)

I'd really like to try out a Warmoth LP. Being bolt-on is a big issue for me however - not because it sounds worse but because many bolt-on heels are cumbersome. I used to play a '92 Jackson random superstrat; sold it and got myself a Gibby Explorer. Man, what a difference.


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## cwhitey2 (Oct 10, 2012)

For how much $$$$ Gibsons cost...they arnt worth it imo.

Mind you I share a studio with 2 old heads who ONLY play Gibson. I have played most of the guitars these guys own and I cant justify spending that much money on something non custom shop.

I own 3 Korean (ltd, agile, schecter) made guitars and 1 american (Carvin). All are amazing guitars....some took a little more work to get them where I wanted. But in the end, they match up well against Gibsons. 

Both played my EC1000...and neither would give me a 'great' comment about it...which being that I know these 2, they didnt want to feel ripped off by paying twice as much for the same "American" made thing...

All that being said...i wish I had a time machine, to go back and play the truely 'great' les pauls..


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## SirMyghin (Oct 10, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> Indeed
> 
> Unlikely that the Tele would break anyway, given that it was actually _designed properly._



I would argue a tele needs more break angle (say greater than 0) to be designed properly. It was designed that way to save material.


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## Heavy Ed (Oct 10, 2012)

Been reading this thread while playing my Agile 3100 (LP copy) .

I was an Ibanez fanboy back in the day but got the itch for a Les Paul and thought only a Gibson or (maybe) Epiphone would cut it. Man I was wrong. Tried every Lester I could get my hands on for 4 or 5 years and nothing under a grand was worth bothering with. The ones that I really liked were over what I wanted to pay or not for sale. Saw a lot of people on here talking up Agile so I decided to give it a shot. Never looked back. I'd put my 3100 up against any LP I tried for under a $1000 and some that were over. 

Your friend probably won't change his mind until he actually plays some other makes that are better and even then he'll probably just get mad and not say anything.


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## cwhitey2 (Oct 10, 2012)

Heavy Ed said:


> Your friend probably won't change his mind until he actually plays some other makes that are better and even then he'll probably just get mad and not say anything.



People like that wont change...plus that would require him admitting he was wrong...good luck with that


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## tdk24 (Oct 10, 2012)

Life is too short to be a slave to one style or one brand of guitar.


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## ihunda (Oct 10, 2012)

Ah ah ah, it sounds like the OP is trying to make us fight other the Gibson vs LP debate. This thread will quickly grow to 100+ pages 

I have an agile 3100, actually a pretty unique purple bird:






Let's not kid oursleves, this is a great guitar but cannot be compared to a les paul standard or custom, NO MAPLE TOP and lower quality tone woods (especially the ebony fretboard IMHO).

I agree though that it's a better deal for the money. But my Gibson LP studio beats it tone wise, it's a simple, cheaper LP studio worn brown and just playing acoustiscally, the difference is huge!






Agile = great value for $$$
Agile != best guitar ever


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## Sang-Drax (Oct 10, 2012)

cwhitey2 said:


> (...)
> I own 3 Korean (ltd, agile, schecter) made guitars and 1 american (Carvin). All are amazing guitars....some took a little more work to get them where I wanted. But in the end, they match up well against Gibsons.
> (...)



From my experience with Schecters, I fulluy disagree. My Schecter Blackjack 7 sounded muffled and muddy compared to my Les Paul Studio, even if the latter is pure mahogany and the latter had a maple neck. The difference was ridiculous, and I suppose the pickups are not to blame because the stock ones on the Schecter are Seymour-Duncan classics.

Both my Blackjack and the Hellraiser I played last Sunday (borrowed from my bassist) have the same problem: the high E string keeps catching under the higher frets. I didn't have that experience with the Hellraiser during band practice, but my bassist complained about it with me even though he didn't know I used to have the same issue back when I owned a Schecter as well. Boy, wasn't that annoying.

I'm the first person to state that differences between guitars are negligible when compared to amps. The only reason why I don't play an Epiphone is because the shipping is so expensive compared to the price of the guitar that it's just not worth it. However, when comparing Gibsons and Schecters, I'd never say they're in the same league.

On the other hand, a friend of mine has an old LTD M-1000 and its build quality does seem on par with Gibsons - if not better. Extremely comfortable neck, won't detune for shit. Soundwise it's also nice, though I'm not a fan of EMGs. Too bad it's so difficult to find ESP/LTD's used around here (and too bad ESP seems to love that hideous abalone binding...).


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## Azathoth43 (Oct 10, 2012)

I'll probably get shit for this but...Whenever I read threads like this it reminds me of the sour grapes parable.


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## 3074326 (Oct 10, 2012)

cwhitey2 said:


> For how much $$$$ Gibsons cost...they arnt worth it imo.



Which Gibson models are you referring to? They have LPs are every price point, starting at $700. 

I think the Traditionals are worth every penny (between $1700-$2k). Above that, I'd rather just save and get a custom built, but the guitars are built extremely well. 

For every ignorant Gibson fanboy, there is an ignorant Gibson hater. (cwhitey2, that comment is not directed toward you)

This is what I've noticed about Gibson vs. LTD, Schecter, Ibanez, etc. Gibson is more consistently good. I would much rather play an Ibanez than a Gibson, but I'd be more comfortable blind-buying a Gibson.


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## tehgriffmeister (Oct 10, 2012)

I honestly believe that Gibson Les Pauls are nice guitars. But there are many guitars that I would MUCH RATHER have. Les Paul doublecut shapes are my favorite on Earth and my next guitar will be an ibanez arx320. But it's this, "GIBSON R BEST GUITAR" Mentality that's making me angry in a sense


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## Koop (Oct 10, 2012)

My first 'higher' end guitar was a Gibson LP Studio.
The fret work is absolutely horrid, the pickup cavities are hideous. 
Whoever inspected the guitar was clearly having a bad day or had no regard for whoever was going to buy the guitar. Anyway,
I tried to sell it a few times, but I couldn't bring myself to sell it due to how awesome it sounded. 
Something about that chambered mahogany body + maple cap and BKP Holydivers is blissful (at least to my ears). 
That said, I won't be buying another new Gibson. If I do, it will be an older LP. The quality is such a hit or miss with Gibson, it's a shame, really.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 10, 2012)

3074326 said:


> For every ignorant Gibson fanboy, there is an ignorant Gibson hater.


 
ALL of the this.


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## 3074326 (Oct 10, 2012)

Koop said:


> The quality is such a hit or miss with Gibson, it's a shame, really.



I always read this, but I'm still waiting to see it for myself..


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## GuitaristOfHell (Oct 10, 2012)

He's totally wrong. 
American guitars are good but ESP are too
2). It's all taste while I agree a LP Custom for me rocks the house.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Oct 10, 2012)

Honestly the guy just sounds like a typical ignorant close-minded type. Don't waste your time trying to convince him.

Best thing you can do is show up to the gig with a cheap ass GIO RG and blow him off the stage with your playing.





3074326 said:


> I always read this, but I'm still waiting to see it for myself..



Yeah i've never seen any quality issues with gibson either. That said, i don't think i'll ever pay that much for a guitar anyway. They're nice and all, but i'm not big on spending the extra $$ over stuff i'm not concerned with


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## mniel8195 (Oct 10, 2012)

les pauls today are the most hit or miss guitar made. I dont think its worth the time trying to find one or the price. I would order esp custom shop "full thickness" the neck profile is awesome to


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## Duraesu (Oct 10, 2012)

"Okay. I'm in a band with a kid..."


Kid. Thats your problem right there... its a kid. Kids dont know sh*t. Really. So, ignore him, someday he will grow up, meet a nice girl, maybe loose virginity and the day will come when he picks up a nice japanese Les Paul replica and realizes that what he said was just plain kid stupidity. Thats Life 101 dude!  cheers!


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## -42- (Oct 10, 2012)

Les Pauls are nice, I would say 90% of the guys talking about 'hit or miss' QC are relaying what they heard from someone else on the internet and have never run into these issues on their own. 

You little friend has an opinion, he'll probably grow out of it one of these days. If not he can buy all the Pauls he wants, I certainly won't stop him.


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## ozzman619 (Oct 10, 2012)

No doubt Gibsons are very nice guitars, and you have to be extremely ignorant to say otherwise, but that goes the same with every guitar company. Playing guitar is 100% preference, there is no best guitar or best pickups or even best amp. Saying one company is better then another is just saying that you prefer them. Now personally i'm an ESP fan boy and i love all ESP's and LTD's and i would never ever own an agile, but i wont say that ESP's are better guitar then them because it is just preference, im sure someone out there thinks the exact opposite and loves agiles over ESP's. 

And even though i am an ESP guy am i actually going to switch over to gibson even though i see them as overly hyped up and over inflated instruments just because i'm currently playing in a hard rock and Gibsons just are rock. So moral of my post, be open minded, and don't be a fuck.


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## bob123 (Oct 10, 2012)

3074326 said:


> ...there is an ignorant Gibson hater...



DIBS!


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## jordanky (Oct 10, 2012)

When it comes down to it these days, what ISN'T overpriced? Gibson is certainly highly priced on some things but so is Fender, ESP, Jackson USA, PRS etc. A great thing about buying a Les Paul is that if you have to sell it one day, you are almost guaranteed you'll be able to sell it probably within a couple hundred bucks what you paid for it haha. All in all, it almost seems like everything is 'too expensive' when no one is truly interested or serious about buying it in the first place.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 10, 2012)

jordanky said:


> All in all, it almost seems like everything is 'too expensive' when no one is truly interested or serious about buying it in the first place.



Egg Zachary.

While we argue here about what brands are or aren't too expensive, go tell someone who doesn't play guitar that you just bought a new guitar and how much it cost. Then you'll _really_ see the reaction of someone who isn't interested in buying one in the first place .


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## jordanky (Oct 10, 2012)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Egg Zachary.
> 
> While we argue here about what brands are or aren't too expensive, go tell someone who doesn't play guitar that you just bought a new guitar and how much it cost. Then you'll _really_ see the reaction of someone who isn't interested in buying one in the first place .



This is why it's always hard to justify gear purchases to the other half, no matter how awesome the deal was haha.


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## Key_Maker (Oct 11, 2012)

Is moment to bring the x-ray machine and look for the "bumblebees" capacitors post in MLPF...

Ps. I have owned and tested lots of LPs, the last one was the best, a Classic Custom that sounded like a telecaster


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## cwhitey2 (Oct 11, 2012)

Sang-Drax said:


> From my experience with Schecters, I fulluy disagree. My Schecter Blackjack 7 sounded muffled and muddy compared to my Les Paul Studio, even if the latter is pure mahogany and the latter had a maple neck. The difference was ridiculous, and I suppose the pickups are not to blame because the stock ones on the Schecter are Seymour-Duncan classics.
> 
> Both my Blackjack and the Hellraiser I played last Sunday (borrowed from my bassist) have the same problem: the high E string keeps catching under the higher frets. I didn't have that experience with the Hellraiser during band practice, but my bassist complained about it with me even though he didn't know I used to have the same issue back when I owned a Schecter as well. Boy, wasn't that annoying.
> 
> ...





To be fair I agree with you. My schecter out of all those I listed is the least articulate sounding. A pup swap deff helps also.




3074326 said:


> Which Gibson models are you referring to? They have LPs are every price point, starting at $700.
> 
> I think the Traditionals are worth every penny (between $1700-$2k). Above that, I'd rather just save and get a custom built, but the guitars are built extremely well.
> 
> ...



Im talking about the customs. I have played the cheaper ones and love them. One of my all time favorite playing guitars was an unsetup pauly at gc (font remember the exact model but it was $1100)


Also the model with the p90 in it for $600-700 is a steal imo. The old heads in my studio have 3 each


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## will_shred (Oct 19, 2012)

jordanky said:


> When it comes down to it these days, what ISN'T overpriced? Gibson is certainly highly priced on some things but so is Fender, ESP, Jackson USA, PRS etc. A great thing about buying a Les Paul is that if you have to sell it one day, you are almost guaranteed you'll be able to sell it probably within a couple hundred bucks what you paid for it haha. All in all, it almost seems like everything is 'too expensive' when no one is truly interested or serious about buying it in the first place.


 
Fender american standard strat is $1000, Gibson LP standard is what, $2500? I really think that fenders are a better value, and better quality. Also in my experience probably one out of every 5 LP's I've played actually felt like a good guitar.


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## -42- (Oct 19, 2012)

^Comparing Strats to Les Pauls is pretty erroneous if you ask me. Stratocasters are fundamentally cheaper guitars to produce, no exotic woods, they have bolt on necks, pickups mounted in plastic pickguards, no carved tops et cetera.

You are free to prefer one other, but you should realize that a "standard" Les Paul is not actually comparable to a "standard" Stratocaster.


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## fps (Oct 19, 2012)

I have a 91 LP Studio, it currently needs a refret, and STILL nothing I've played sounds like it. Just amazing. Still, no guitar is the be-all and end-all, I'm sure he'll grow out of it.


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## jam3v (Oct 19, 2012)

-42- said:


> ^Comparing Strats to Les Pauls is pretty erroneous if you ask me. Stratocasters are fundamentally cheaper guitars to produce, no exotic woods, they have bolt on necks, pickups mounted in plastic pickguards, no carved tops et cetera.
> 
> You are free to prefer one other, but you should realize that a "standard" Les Paul is not actually comparable to a "standard" Stratocaster.



I'm not sure any of this is true.

I don't think mahogany is considered an exotic tone wood. It's used in a lot of mass market guitars, both cheap and expensive. There are definitely more exotic species of mahogany, but you're not going to find those in sub-$2000 instruments.

Also, why would a set-neck be more expensive than a bolt-on? A bolt-on requires more hardware (glue vs. screws).

Why would using a pickguard reduce the cost of the guitar? Wouldn't that in fact increase the overall cost of production?

And lastly.. The Fender American Standard and Les Paul Studio are similarly priced and the only differences between a Studio and Standard Les Paul are mostly cosmetic.

I mean, I really might not know what I'm talking about, but those are my guesses.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 19, 2012)

I will say you're throwing in a figured maple top on some Standards.


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## jordanky (Oct 19, 2012)

Cosmetic or not, it still costs money to produce. Sometimes a figured maple top, binding on both the body and neck, pickups, inlays, the Standards are Plek'd, and the Studios are now using granadillo for fretboards while the Standards are still using rosewood etc.


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## gunch (Oct 19, 2012)

Guys. Guys. Heritage.


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## Necky379 (Oct 19, 2012)

silverabyss said:


> Guys. Guys. Heritage.



Last post beat me to it. I had a gold top Heritage Paul that was just amazing but I bought it second hand and received it with a warped neck. I've wanted another one ever since I had to return it but haven't had the extra money lying around for another 6 string. Such a shame it had to go. 

That being said I love Gibson guitars, my SG Standard is without a doubt my most prized posession but _so far_ I have not played a Les Paul that sounded or felt better than that fat necked heavy ass Heritage.


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## purpledc (Oct 19, 2012)

tehgriffmeister said:


> Oh no, it's not his opinion that makes it, er, bad. It's the fact that he's absolutely and completely convinced there is not a single guitar that could possibly surpass a gibson les paul.




You might want to inform your friend that the gibson making les pauls today is not the same gibson that made les pauls in 1959. In fact if your friend really wanted a les paul type guitar that was like the older ones he wouldnt even be playing a gibson. He would be playing a heritage. Heritage guitars build guitars on the same machinery and is run by many of gibsons ex factory workers in the old gibson factory in michigan. Technically that would make their guitars more of a gibson that gibson themselves. He might as well be playing a navigator as neither the navigator or the gibson les paul after 1984 (and even in the eighties not all guitars were made in michigan) have anything to do with the original guitars except the look and the name. 

Your friend will one day recognize the error of his ways. But like most musicians theres likely little you can say to change that for him early. I would simply laugh it off and remind him every once in awhile that he is retarded. Im not saying they are bad guitars. Gibson can still make a great paul if they try or if you get lucky. I had one that was amazing. But IMHO the only people that believe that they are the best guitars are either improperly educated, or simply arent the type of people to admit they overpayed for an instrument they would have paid 50% less for if it had any other name on the headstock. Hell, when I bought a custom Warrior soldier, I didnt want to admit I pissed away $2400. I should have taken that wad of cash and rolled a fatty with it. Atleast id have a story to tell.


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## Papaoneil (Oct 19, 2012)

Everyone stop hating and respect each others taste in instruments. 
There is a reason that we have so many to choose from these days.


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## cdf294 (Oct 21, 2012)

I have to agree with everyone here who states that you will never convince this person to believe anything other than what he wants to believe.

Having said this, I am a Gibson fan myself but this seems to be changing as of recently. I have 4 Gibbys (2x LP and 2x SG) that I have held onto and many more that have been sold. If you get a good Gibson, they can be fantastic guitars. Unfortunately, I have had more duds than good ones. Yes, they are US made but I own a couple of Korean guitars that have excellent build quality and sound great. US made Gibsons are still machine made for most models and the attention to detail has been slipping for years now, IMO.

What I am trying to say is that my Gibsons are slowly disappearing for hand built US guitars that are quite simply light years beyond my Gibsons in build quality and playability. Sound is subjective so I will keep those opinions to myself. Do said hand built guitars have fancy binding, inlays, or any of that other stuff that is effectively nothing more than cosmetic upgrades? Some do, some don't, but in this particular example, NO. 
I am not saying Gibsons are bad guitars and I still own several but will likely only keep the 98 LP Std. What I am saying is that I am no longer impressed by the name on the headstock- especially when I can get a hand built US made guitar with greater attention to detail for the same money as a used, machine made LP Std.. 
The one thing I feel Gibson has going for it, and is well above the curve, is resale... as long as you didn't buy new. I still love my Gibbys but have learned that, for the price, there are better guitars out there.

This is only my experience and in no way meant as an attempt to convince anybody of anything.


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## Nag (Oct 21, 2012)

tell him the singlecuts from rondomusic are the best shit ever for the money...

I'm a LP fan, but that doesn't make me say everything else is crap. duhhh dumbass kid in your band...


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Oct 21, 2012)

Didn't Les Paul (himself) have this same problem?

I seem to recall from an interview that when he first discovered a neighbour had a guitar, he and his friends sneaked in so they could take a look.
When the owner discovered the kids had been messing with his guitar, he burnt it in the hearth so "...Those pesky kids can't steal my chords anymore!." Essentially destroying the only guitar in the neighbourhood.
Go look it up though, my memory of this story is hazy at best.

More guitar bigotry.


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## MatthewK (Oct 21, 2012)

Fine, more Les Pauls for me! Don't let some snobby assholes ruin a classic guitar for you.


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## Nile (Oct 21, 2012)

Am I weird for liking the roughed up, reliable, ak47 look I get from a BFG?


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## -42- (Oct 22, 2012)

Ignore this, doppelpost.


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## -42- (Oct 22, 2012)

jam3v said:


> I'm not sure any of this is true.
> 
> I don't think mahogany is considered an exotic tone wood. It's used in a lot of mass market guitars, both cheap and expensive. There are definitely more exotic species of mahogany, but you're not going to find those in sub-$2000 instruments.
> 
> ...


Well, he was comparing American Standard Strats to Les Paul Standards. The Paul has a quilt/flame maple carve top, which costs a bit more in labor and materials, the set neck is also generally more time consuming to mount than a bolt on. A pickguard allows for the body to be front routed, as well as reduces the tolerances and finishing required for routing.

I agree that the Les Paul Studios and American Standard Strats are comparable instruments, but that wasn't the point I was originally trying to make.


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## jephjacques (Oct 22, 2012)

jam3v said:


> I'm not sure any of this is true.
> 
> I don't think mahogany is considered an exotic tone wood. It's used in a lot of mass market guitars, both cheap and expensive. There are definitely more exotic species of mahogany, but you're not going to find those in sub-$2000 instruments.
> 
> ...



You don't know what you're talking about.

Set necks are more expensive because they are vastly more difficult and time consuming to build than bolt-ons. Even with modern CNC machinery there still needs to be a ton of hand-fitting to make sure the guitar is put together properly. Gibson still does a lot of stuff the old fashioned way in this regard.

Using a pickguard makes for a cheaper guitar because the routing work to install the pickups and electronics is much, much simpler when done under a pickguard. It's quite a bit more time consuming to do "rear routed" electronics like on a LP.

The reason LP Studios are so much cheaper than Standards is, indeed, related to cosmetic issues. The binding, fretboard inlays, fancy maple tops, fancy finishes, and different pickups all combine to make a LP Standard much more time consuming (therefore expensive) to produce than a Studio. Do standards command a premium over and beyond their actual value? I'm sure they do. But a Studio and a Standard are not "the same guitar."

The simple fact is Fender guitars are much simpler to mass-produce than Les Pauls, which is why they tend to be less expensive. Both guitars do what they were designed to do very well, and neither is intrinsically "better" than the other.


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## budda (Oct 22, 2012)

Please show me using statistical data that set necks are more expensive to build then bolt-ons. Thanks. Also, most les pauls ship with pickguards


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 23, 2012)

budda said:


> Also, most les pauls ship with pickguards



A pickguard that after being removed still leaves a fully functioning guitar with no big weird routes all over the place. Their point about the pickguard on the strat was that the routing doesn't need to be as precise since the pickguard is just going to cover it up anyway, whereas the pickguard on an LP is mostly cosmetic.

_Having said that_, LPs _do_ use pickup rings, which can cover up non-snug routes just as well as a pickguard does. They're all CNCd anyways, and I kinda doubt it's any more time consuming or expensive to have a CNC route for an HH rear-route LP rather than an SSS top-route strat.


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## rty13ibz98 (Oct 23, 2012)

i have an edwards LP, john sykes model that i swapped the duncan distortions to 59/jb and it is spectacular. i bought it just for studio work and i never play it live. the meatiness of the guitar is legendary. i find that most of the more recent usa gibsons have quality inconsistencies and the "weight relieved" pauls lack the low end and girth of the notes with more snarly high mids than the traditional LP sound. i have had the pleasure of playing some early 70s-mid 80s LP and those were awesome sounding guitars, not the best for playing all night, but the notes were like sledgehammers and those are the type that i get out of the edwards. i also have an ltd ec-400 that has the ewards distortions and it has way more mids and less of the bottom. it sounds like the more modern pauls at way less than a gibson.
for me, it comes down to value: if i can't justify the $2000+ price, i will try to hunt down an excellent alternative. 

rich


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## jam3v (Oct 23, 2012)

jephjacques said:


> You don't know what you're talking about.
> 
> Set necks are more expensive because they are vastly more difficult and time consuming to build than bolt-ons. Even with modern CNC machinery there still needs to be a ton of hand-fitting to make sure the guitar is put together properly. Gibson still does a lot of stuff the old fashioned way in this regard.



Source?



jephjacques said:


> Using a pickguard makes for a cheaper guitar because the routing work to install the pickups and electronics is much, much simpler when done under a pickguard. It's quite a bit more time consuming to do "rear routed" electronics like on a LP.



Source? 

I'd wager that the manufacturing process is so efficient at this point that routing wires through a rear-routed guitar literally takes seconds. In fact, I can think right of a way right off the top of my head that makes it really quick and simple, so i'm assuming it's relatively trivial for the experienced manufacturer. I'd also bet that all the additional hardware that goes into a pickguard setup is more expensive than the few seconds of manual labor it will take to wire a rear-routed guitar.



jephjacques said:


> The simple fact is Fender guitars are much simpler to mass-produce than Les Pauls, which is why they tend to be less expensive. Both guitars do what they were designed to do very well, and neither is intrinsically "better" than the other.



I don't think you or anyone has proven which one was is cheaper to produce.


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## jam3v (Oct 23, 2012)

-42- said:


> Well, he was comparing American Standard Strats to Les Paul Standards. The Paul has a quilt/flame maple carve top, which costs a bit more in labor and materials, the set neck is also generally more time consuming to mount than a bolt on. A pickguard allows for the body to be front routed, as well as reduces the tolerances and finishing required for routing.
> 
> I agree that the Les Paul Studios and American Standard Strats are comparable instruments, but that wasn't the point I was originally trying to make.



My point in comparing the Fender and Studio was to disprove your assertions that neck-joint, lack of pickguard, and mahogany made the guitar "fundamentally [more expensive] to produce" since those qualities are universal to Les Pauls.

Now you're making different assertions.


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## cajunboy2k (Oct 23, 2012)

I think guitars are highly personable. What works well for one personnel, ay not work for another. I've owned 2 les Paul's, and could not bond with either. I like the body shape, but not the weight. I couldn't get a tone I liked out of them either. I finally bit the bullet and ordered a Carvin CS6. For me, I haven't played a better guitar than it. So, tell your friend to take off his blinders. As for companies who make copies of other guitars, more power to them. The world needs competing brands at all price points.


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## xxx128 (Nov 13, 2012)

I love gibson's for their tone. My best sounding guitar is...tada, a gibson. Hands down. They are decent players too.

i HATE them for the horrid quality. Some recent gibsons cant even compare to a 200$ Made in China guitar in terms of craftsmanship. And its a bit sad because gibson has been building guitars for the past 3 million years! 
So yeah they fucking suck but they are awesome, lol.


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## goldsteinat0r (Nov 13, 2012)

xxx128 said:


> I love gibson's for their tone. My best sounding guitar is...tada, a gibson. Hands down. They are decent players too.
> 
> i HATE them for the horrid quality. Some recent gibsons cant even compare to a 200$ Made in China guitar in terms of craftsmanship. And its a bit sad because gibson has been building guitars for the past 3 million years!
> So yeah they fucking suck but they are awesome, lol.



I have a Les Paul Studio (my particular model happens to be the least expensive USA model Gibson offers - $799 new with a gig bag) and the QC on it was pretty flawless. It sounds fantastic and plays beautifully. Nothing like it. 

I have 5 guitars and its consistently my #1. Its very recent too, I think a 2011. The fretwork, the nut slots, everything was great right off the shelf, especially for the price. Also it takes quite the beating for shows and such (as long as it doesn't fall over ).

Not saying that its OMG THE BEST GUITAR IN TEH WORLD but I don't really understand why a lot of modern heavy musicians dislike LPs so much. They have one of the meatiest, most distinctive tones available and they're very durable from a "normal use" standpoint.


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## Murmel (Nov 13, 2012)

Recently got a higher end Epi Les Paul for like $280 from a friend. Hadn't it said Epiphone on the headstock I would never had thought it was one.

And it sounds so fucking massive, gotta love that LP tone. Nothing quite like ripping away on Welcome to the Jungle and pretending you're Slash


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## Andromalia (Nov 13, 2012)

Well, looks and finish are one important part of the cost of a guitar. The only gibson I own is a goldtop studio with a maple cap and 498T pickup. I paid 800&#8364; for it. Would I pay 1K5&#8364; more to get an ebony board (or whatever they use since the protected wood debacle) and binding ? No. On the other hand I have paid more than 1K&#8364; above the price of a guitar just for cosmetics, design and paint.

In my opinion, CNC is better than human work, if only for consistency. CNCing a Studio body isn't more expensive than CNCing a LPC's body.
The value of the artist's hand comes where it is original work, imho, or small series that make CNC too expensive as the machine won't pay for itself with too few orders. Nobfody spits on CNCed PRSes that I know of.

In the end it's all about what you value, I wouldn't pay for a LPC that is, to me, too expensive for what it offers, while other people would scoff at me paying for some custom paint job. 

Also note that out of Les Pauls, explorers and Vs are some serious guitar for the money.


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## jam3v (Nov 13, 2012)

cwhitey2 said:


> For how much $$$$ Gibsons cost...they arnt worth it imo.
> 
> Mind you I share a studio with 2 old heads who ONLY play Gibson. I have played most of the guitars these guys own and I cant justify spending that much money on something non custom shop.
> 
> ...



I'd agree that a lot of Les Pauls are overpriced, but you can get a nice Studio that looks, plays and sounds great for like $1,200 brand new. That's a pretty good price for an American made guitar with good pickups.

Your comparison against your LTD, Agile, and Schecter is strange to me. They're all totally different guitars. What are your metrics for comparison?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 13, 2012)

jam3v said:


> Your comparison against your LTD, Agile, and Schecter is strange to me. They're all totally different guitars. What are your metrics for comparison?



They're trying to appeal to Les Paul players?


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## zappatton2 (Nov 13, 2012)

I've got a studio LP that is not only one of the best guitars I've ever owned, but also one of the best I've ever played. That said, I've also owned a couple of Gibsons that were so flawed in the QC department that it really soured my opinion of Gibson, despite my LP. Always best to sit with a Gibson in the store, play it a while and take full note of everything, because it really is luck of the draw, could be the greatest guitar you ever owned, or a total dud.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Nov 13, 2012)

Lately I've been striving against the use of generalisations. Possibly, I could claim that the Les Paul over there on the stand is "*teh bestest Les'er eva!*", but to say all Les Paul's are better than other designs would be a clear display of bigotry which might take years of personal character development to surpass.

@OP
Has your friend recovered from his unconventional beliefs yet?


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## Beowulf Von Thrashmeister (Nov 13, 2012)

goldsteinat0r said:


> I have a Les Paul Studio (my particular model happens to be the least expensive USA model Gibson offers - $799 new with a gig bag) and the QC on it was pretty flawless. It sounds fantastic and plays beautifully. Nothing like it.
> 
> I have 5 guitars and its consistently my #1. Its very recent too, I think a 2011. The fretwork, the nut slots, everything was great right off the shelf, especially for the price. Also it takes quite the beating for shows and such (as long as it doesn't fall over ).
> 
> Not saying that its OMG THE BEST GUITAR IN TEH WORLD but I don't really understand why a lot of modern heavy musicians dislike LPs so much. They have one of the meatiest, most distinctive tones available and they're very durable from a "normal use" standpoint.


 


What model of Les Paul studio is it, is it one of the faded brown Les Paul studios with a natural finish ?


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## Dan_Vacant (Nov 13, 2012)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Egg Zachary.
> 
> While we argue here about what brands are or aren't too expensive, go tell someone who doesn't play guitar that you just bought a new guitar and how much it cost. Then you'll _really_ see the reaction of someone who isn't interested in buying one in the first place .


My mom thought I was nuts when I said I'm going to buy a $300 guitar I told her that is cheap. She probably now see's it's cheaper then other guitars I look at, but still not cheap to her.


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## Andromalia (Nov 13, 2012)

Don't ever tell your mother when you take up the violin then. She will have an attack.


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## Bekanor (Nov 13, 2012)

That kind of dogmatic brand loyalty is just as annoying as dipshits who turn up with a 100 series LTD and plead that "It played and sounded way better than any of the high end ESPs in the shop".


Also for what it's worth, my Edwards LP Custom is a fantastic guitar that I love to bits, but I wouldn't even think about attempting to put it up against a Gibson LP Custom. They are just two different worlds.


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## gunch (Nov 14, 2012)

I've got killer LP Junior or 1 p90 singlecut gas







Anyone played recent production Gibson LP Juniors?


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## MythicSquirrel (Nov 14, 2012)

silverabyss said:


> Anyone played recent production Gibson LP Juniors?


 I've only played the gloss singlcut Juniors, but they're amazing. The P90 has a nice crunch to it, and for around $700 it's pretty hard to beat.


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## goldsteinat0r (Nov 14, 2012)

Beowulf Von Thrashmeister said:


> What model of Les Paul studio is it, is it one of the faded brown Les Paul studios with a natural finish ?



Its a studio satin with a 60s neck and the 490/498 combo (I think).


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## Eric Christian (Dec 22, 2012)

After cycling through about 10 different guitars over the last 5 years I went back to Les Pauls for good. Nothing sits down on my thigh and locks down like a Les Paul. Plus the tone and sustain is legendary. I have really big hands so the necks are a bit strange but I love the overall feel.

I've got a Gothic Les Paul which is basically a studio and a Epiphone Gothic which is real similar. I really like them expect neither is heavy enough. So yeah I like the heavier thicker body on the Custom but I hate all the binding on the body and fretboard plus the ugly gold hardware and inlays. Why can't they just make a thick body Les Paul but with all the hardware the Gothic has? 

So yeah, long story short after the holidays are over the Gibson custom shop will start to take orders again is what my guy is telling me. So basically I'll have them make a Custom Gothic with the black matte finish heavy body, black hardware, EMG's and Grover tuners. Does that sound right?


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## SkullCrusher (Dec 22, 2012)

I've had 2 gibbons in 2012 (lp studio and sg standard) both of which had to be returned because of neck faults. Never again.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Dec 22, 2012)

I love every gibson and epiphone i have had. A lil overpriced but worth it.


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## technomancer (Dec 22, 2012)

For 2012:

Gibson 50s Tribute LP: uneven frets, neck wider than fretboard, sent back
Gibson LP Traditional Plus Top: awesome guitar, no flaws, keeper
Gibson SG Standard: wet glue in case glued the furry case lining to the guitar, exchanging

Hoping the replacement SG is as good as my LP Traditional, it goes out fedex ground monday


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## jordanky (Dec 22, 2012)

I've had a bunch of Gibson guitars this year.

1981 Les Paul Custom - Awesome guitar, Norlin-era Gibson goodness.

2010 Les Paul Traditional - One of the best guitars I've ever played, period. I'm dead set on getting another one ASAP and I hate myself for getting rid of the one I've had, even though it helped me put a down payment on a car.

2012 Les Paul Standard Plus - Not a fan of all. I traded my '81 Custom for this one just to flip it, chambered and weighed like 9lbs, the finsh was super sticky. Luckily it was an easy sell, haha

2011 SG Faded - Probably one of the best newer model Gibson guitars I've ever played. Even for a cheap guitar it sounded and played like a champion.

2008 Les Paul Standard - This thing sucked too. Weight relieved, felt like a toy. Case smelled great though!

1980 Les Paul Deluxe - My baby. Never leaving the stable. Another Norlin-era that weighs a bajillion pounds but it sounds and plays great.


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## grogarage (Dec 22, 2012)

like some have said, Gibson USA guitars have a brand ''power'', it's a bit like Harley Davidson motorcycles. People who know nothing about motorcycles knows what a Harley is, now try to explain you have a yamaha Road Star...a what? Brand image is a major selling point, and Gibson have a long history with many legendary players. You rarely see a major band playing ''similar to Gibson'' guitars, they play the ''real'' thing.

On the 3 or 4 USA LP i tried (std, custom, traditional, studio) there was only one that i bonded with playability wise, they all had good tone but the traditional for whatever reason was fantastic. So it goes to say no mather the hype of the brand you will find gems and shitty exemple. 

I have a first year LTD Ninja Amott sig that sounds awesome. The day i bought it, the first thing i did was playing it unplugged and what sold me to it was it's resonant and loud tone. I said to myself that pickups could be swaped if not to my liking but it starts with good wood. The jb/59 set on it is excellent.

On stage, do i look like a 37 yrs old kid with my LTD? Would i look more mature, serious, professional with a nice USA LP ? To many, yes. It's not a fun reality but it is none the less.

Brand image my freinds...


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## longfxukxnhair (Dec 22, 2012)

Here is a pic of most of my Gibbys


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## SkullCrusher (Dec 23, 2012)

goldsteinat0r said:


> Its a studio satin with a 60s neck and the 490/498 combo (I think).



Awesome guitars for the cash


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## jam3v (Dec 27, 2012)

Gotta say:

I finally got myself a 2009 Silverburst, and the thing sounds and plays incredible, for the price.

Granted, I'll probably only use it for the coverband thing, but it excels at that.


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## goldsteinat0r (Dec 27, 2012)

jam3v said:


> Gotta say:
> 
> I finally got myself a 2009 Silverburst, and the thing sounds and plays incredible, for the price.
> 
> Granted, I'll probably only use it for the coverband thing, but it excels at that.



Thats sexy. 

Don't count it out for heavy stuff. Thats what they do best, I think.


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## engage757 (Dec 27, 2012)

New Gibsons...


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## Aztec (Dec 27, 2012)

I really want to get a Traditional Pro. Anyone got one? Impressions?


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## goldsteinat0r (Dec 27, 2012)

Aztec said:


> I really want to get a Traditional Pro. Anyone got one? Impressions?



Almost bought one instead of my Studio. Fantastic guitar. Kinda the archetypal "Les Paul" as you think of it. Can do basically any Genre.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Dec 27, 2012)

Has anybody played the LPJ les paul. Im thinking about the rubbed vintage burst. I may go after one.


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## goldsteinat0r (Dec 27, 2012)

arkansasmatt said:


> Has anybody played the LPJ les paul. Im thinking about the rubbed vintage burst. I may go after one.



Yep. Played like a regular faded studio. Pickup covers looked stupid. Sounded good though.

Sorry for monopolizing the thread.  I'm an LP nut so most of these questions I can answer.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Dec 27, 2012)

How the frets feel on it? Can u tell me more about it? Thank you.


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## SkullCrusher (Dec 27, 2012)

Aztec said:


> I really want to get a Traditional Pro. Anyone got one? Impressions?



Probably the best gibbo on sale atm imo.

In goldtop theres nothing not to like about it.

(unless like all mine, the necks are made from rubber)


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## goldsteinat0r (Dec 27, 2012)

arkansasmatt said:


> How the frets feel on it? Can u tell me more about it? Thank you.



That will of course vary from guitar to guitar but that particular one felt really nice. Fretwork was good and it was a very nice feeling setup, actually. The frets were standard issue Med Jumbos, I think. Didn't feel any different than my studio. Pretty fast neck. I was surprised.


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## themightyjaymoe (Dec 27, 2012)

This thread is making me laugh. Yes I have a les paul custom but I have owned a traditional, 2 studios, 2 epi lps both made in china, 3 made in Indonesia LTDs, a made in indonesia Ibanez and currently a made in china Ibanez. They were all pretty good, and some actually kicked tons of ass. I buy for tone first, feel second, looks third and price last. I bought the custom after I sold all my other guitars and came into a little cash. A belated college graduation present to myself. Anyway...sounds like your guitar player and many others like what they like. Maybe one day they'll realize that limiting yourself to simply 'this brand' or 'that brand' they miss out on tons of guitars that are pretty god damned awesome. My two cents.


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## infernalservice (Dec 27, 2012)

I have gone thru quite a few of gibsons this year:

1989 Standard LP: awesome guitar, but I hated the late 80's lawrence designed pickups gibson was using. very close to mint condition, ending up flipping it to a guy in russia.

1983 Explorer: bought online and it arrived with a neck reset the store i bought it from forgot to tell me about. returned that shit instantly

2012 traditional plus lp: holding it on my lap as i type this. super fun guitar to play and sounds great with the classic 57 pickups. first guitar I have left stock in forever. total keeper

1977 maple boarded lp custom: came with emg's so i cant comment on the tone yet, waiting for my new pickups to show. however it is very light for a norlin era guitar, and the original frets still play amazingly well. 

also worth mentioning I just sold a burny John Sykes les paul that was as good as any gibson i have ever owned. I also have a heritage h-157 in the house that I have been playing for the last few months, build quality is spot on with any high end gibby.


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## Ape Factory (Dec 27, 2012)

I just got the Gibson bug and did a knee jerk impulse buy of one that spoke to me. I swore I wouldn't buy one for a long time and I have a PRS Bernie Marsden that fits in the Gibson LP genre. But I saw it and couldn't resist after realizing the cost of say a PRS Stripped 58 or SC 58 put it above my skill level. I can afford it but cannot justify buying that kind of guitar just yet. So I picked up a used 2004 LP Standard. I have five Ibanez and one Telecaster so this slides into the group nicely.

Selling this....






To get this....





Hoping to A/B them when the Gibson comes in if the PRS doesn't sell before it arrives. I truly believe the PRS will more than hold its own. Could be a lateral move, we'll see.


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## wakjob (Dec 28, 2012)

I've got a EC-256 'Relic' LTD that is exceptionally good. I like it better than most LP's I've played, and I've played many. I slapped an unknown 70's Gibson PU in the bridge and it holds its own against any LP or copy.

That said, the BEST LP I've every laid my hands on was an Edwards. Not chambered, but was only like 4-5 lbs. Just stupid light. Plus it had original Tim Shaw pickups and vintage wiring/caps/pots ect...


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## themike (Dec 28, 2012)

Ape Factory said:


> Hoping to A/B them when the Gibson comes in if the PRS doesn't sell before it arrives. I truly believe the PRS will more than hold its own. Could be a lateral move, we'll see.


 
Ah, what pickups did you put in the Bernie? I just played one with 53/10s in it and it was unreal. 

That LP is really really nice though, I dig it!


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## Ape Factory (Dec 28, 2012)

I actually have upgraded pickups in there now. ReWind creme brulee's. Killer pickups and I highly recommend the shop as he has great customer service, lifetime warranty, etc...just a very good guy to deal with. Usually a 10 day turn around on custom builds too. No waiting six months.

I actually have nothing bad to say about the PRS. It does everything I ask. It's not one of those situations where I feel like I'm getting a better guitar at all but more of a curiosity thing. I bought a "player" LP that was gigged. So at the very least, I know I'm getting a good, solid playing guitar. And I'm not paying $2600 for it. I know the PRS is just under a pound lighter though. 7.8 to 8.6lbs. 

Re-Wind pickups, check them out. No association, just a very, very satisfied customer.
ReWind : Retro Style Electric Guitar Pickups


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## ihunda (Dec 28, 2012)

wakjob said:


> I've got a EC-256 'Relic' LTD that is exceptionally good. I like it better than most LP's I've played, and I've played many. I slapped an unknown 70's Gibson PU in the bridge and it holds its own against any LP or copy.



Hmm, I have a ESP LTD EC-1000 and a Gibson Traditional Plus, totally different guitars. The LTD is a very thin slab of mahogany without a maple cap while the les paul is a fat mahogany beatch plus a thick maple top for added snap.

I love my EC-1000 but it's closer to a SG than a Les paul, it can't hold its own against an LP tone wise unless you hate the LP tone to begin with.


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## RagtimeDandy (Dec 28, 2012)

Own a LP Studio...I really am thinking about trading it in, I just don't pick it up anymore and it feels cheap. I've come to realize I'm a PRS guy


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## Dawn of the Shred (Dec 28, 2012)

Im really thinking about getting one of the new LPJ Les Pauls.


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## Chris O (Dec 28, 2012)

Aztec said:


> I really want to get a Traditional Pro. Anyone got one? Impressions?



Had two of them. Great guitars. Relatively heavy, non-chambered. I liked the splitters too. Bridge pickup was a bit brighter than I like ideally, but not enough to change out. I had an Ebony and a Gold Top. The Ebony sounded a little better; the GT played a little better. I also had a couple Standards - a 2009 and a 1998. I'd take the Trad Pro over either, but man...resale is HORSE SHIT on them. Thanks, GC.


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## MikeH (Dec 28, 2012)

I inherited my Les Paul Custom after my dad passed. I don't use it to its full potential, but it's awesome to pick it up every now and then and play some doom or some post-rock. It'll never leave my possession.


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## wakjob (Dec 28, 2012)

^
That's beautiful MikeH.


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## MikeH (Dec 28, 2012)

Thanks, dude.


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## wakjob (Dec 28, 2012)

ihunda said:


> I love my EC-1000 but it's closer to a SG than a Les paul, it can't hold its own against an LP tone wise unless you hate the LP tone to begin with.



Slap some old Gibson Tim Shaw era pickups and vintage correct wiring and you might be surprised how 'LP' sounding it can get.

A nice maple cap would be icing on the cake though.


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## jordanky (Dec 29, 2012)

infernalservice said:


> 1989 Standard LP: awesome guitar, but I hated the late 80's lawrence designed pickups gibson was using. very close to mint condition, ending up flipping it to a guy in russia.



Funny you mention that dude. After Gibson put the SG Standards on sale for $799 and being smart and not buying one, I still had the biggest SG boner. I ended up scoring a 1990 SG Special yesterday with those pickups in it and it absolutely RIPPED through my 6505+ but solid mahogany vs mahogany/maple may have a slight effect on that. Just to be sure, were they the HB-L and HB-R, with the circuit board bottoms?


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## Aztec (Dec 29, 2012)

Chris O said:


> Had two of them. Great guitars. Relatively heavy, non-chambered. I liked the splitters too. Bridge pickup was a bit brighter than I like ideally, but not enough to change out. I had an Ebony and a Gold Top. The Ebony sounded a little better; the GT played a little better. I also had a couple Standards - a 2009 and a 1998. I'd take the Trad Pro over either, but man...resale is HORSE SHIT on them. Thanks, GC.



Thx for the input, I'm not really worried about the resale, if I get it it'll probably be a keeper.


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## themightyjaymoe (Dec 29, 2012)




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## goldsteinat0r (Dec 29, 2012)

Ape Factory said:


> I just got the Gibson bug and did a knee jerk impulse buy of one that spoke to me. I swore I wouldn't buy one for a long time and I have a PRS Bernie Marsden that fits in the Gibson LP genre. But I saw it and couldn't resist after realizing the cost of say a PRS Stripped 58 or SC 58 put it above my skill level. I can afford it but cannot justify buying that kind of guitar just yet. So I picked up a used 2004 LP Standard. I have five Ibanez and one Telecaster so this slides into the group nicely.
> 
> Selling this....
> 
> ...



Totally different animals. I think you'll be surprised how hard it is to compare.


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## BillNephew (Dec 29, 2012)

I'm not sure if it's just my Deluxe EC-1000, but mine buzzes all over the place, no matter where I have the truss rod at in terms of relief. My USA LP studio from '93 that I got for the same price used ($500) eats that LTD for breakfast. However, back when Gibson was having Samick manufacture their Les Pauls, their quality was really close to a US LP. I have a Samick LP Custom from that era that plays just as well as my '93 Les Paul Studio.


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## Jake (Dec 29, 2012)

I love my studio, it's not a metal machine but thats not what I need it for anyway. It'll probably be the only guitar I take with me to college next year as its extremely versatile. Also got it for a damn good price for being in mint condition. its a 2008 fireburst




probably gonna end up getting one of those 50's tributes with the p90's eventually too. I like the goldtop


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## Dawn of the Shred (Dec 29, 2012)

^Nice


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## infernalservice (Dec 29, 2012)

jordanky said:


> Funny you mention that dude. After Gibson put the SG Standards on sale for $799 and being smart and not buying one, I still had the biggest SG boner. I ended up scoring a 1990 SG Special yesterday with those pickups in it and it absolutely RIPPED through my 6505+ but solid mahogany vs mahogany/maple may have a slight effect on that. Just to be sure, were they the HB-L and HB-R, with the circuit board bottoms?



Yep. Exactly what they were. I just found them a little too compressed and overly gainy. I really wanted to keep that standard, but a Russian guy offered me double what I pair for it. I ended up buying my heritage with the profit, so it worked out awesome in the end.


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