# Do the kind of Drum Pedals really affect speed/technique



## CrownofWorms

Since I'm a noob with drums and my drummer is getting new pieces for a set after losing it all in a studio(used to practice/used a drum set in a rehearsal studio, now it closed down and we are trying to fix up an old Ludwig 8 piece). 

I witnessed him playing up to 300bpm and could do many other pedal techniques(Heel Toe), also knows many Brain Drill, Whitechapel, Dying Fetus tracks and such. But he is telling me he needs to get either Tama Iron Cobras ,Pearl Eliminator Demons, Axis Foobars, and DW 9000's(what he used to use). Those pedals cost a lot of money for us and he thinks he needs these pedals to play proficiently. 

Saying he can't go fast if he uses a pedal that is under $200. Yet can you just adjust the pedal to your liking so that you can utilize the techniques? He used a set of Mapex Raptors and he said it was too heavy for him to use to execute the speed. But he just tried them out at GC for a minute and didn't bother adjusting. 

So does it really matter what you use? Also what are some pedals that are comparable to the high end pedals, but are really good budget wise?


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## drmosh

of course it matters


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## Stealthdjentstic

It's like playing on a 4k custom vs a $100 squire. Could you do it? Yes. Will it be harder? yes.


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## ArrowHead

How did he get good enough to play whitechapel without a kit of his own?

Drums are expensive. Nothing I would ever consider a band expense. Dude needs to buy his own gear.


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## Micah55

Your kick pedal is the last thing on your set you should cheap out on. Get something nice.


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## ShadowFactoryX

having better pedals is a huge plus.
they're worth it


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## drmosh

Stealthdjentstic said:


> It's like playing on a 4k custom vs a $100 squire. Could you do it? Yes. Will it be harder? yes.



I don't even think it would be possible to reach say, George Kollias, speeds on a cheapo pedal. You need decent hardware and response in the pedals.


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## broj15

i used to dick around on the drum kit when i was in my old band and even my novice feet could tell a difference between a good pedal and a shitty one. 

However i think your drummer should be the one to pay for it, not the "band fund". Band funds should be reserved for things like renting venues, touring expenses (van/ trailer rental, gas etc) not instruments and gear. If the band fund is being used to buy him a fancy pedal then perhaps it should also be used to buy you a fancy new axe


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## brutalslam

Pedals do matter to an extent, some have better response and speed. I also think the drummer should buy his own gear. Get on http://used.guitarcenter.com and look up Iron cobras. You can get a used double pedal for $200 or under on there, by buying used.


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## ShadowFactoryX

broj15 said:


> However i think your drummer should be the one to pay for it, not the "band fund". Band funds should be reserved for things like renting venues, touring expenses (van/ trailer rental, gas etc) not instruments and gear. If the band fund is being used to buy him a fancy pedal then perhaps it should also be used to buy you a fancy new axe



i agree, even though i'm primarily a drummer

personal equipment should be paid for out of pocket
unless its something you need immediately, and he could replace the band fun money.


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## SirMyghin

Why would you be chipping in on his kit is the question of the day. That is his job, especially if he wants something fancy, but even if he doesn't.


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## iron blast

Well in all fairness maybe this drummer is poor and can't afford new stuff after losing his last kit. My old drummer used my shit because he was 14 and couldn't afford good stuff. He used his old shitty pedals until it came time to upgrade. I got him gear on his birthday if it is a benefit to the band and he is willing to buy it for his bro in his band then that's his business guys Imho. My band took turns using band funds to upgrade gear because money is tight. Thanks to that we all have pro gear now. So to the op if your band talks about it together I think it would deff help your drummer to have new pedals. the best comparison I have is bikes cheap pedals are like taking a huffy or other Walmart crap bike to a race versus a high performance one. It is possible to win with it if you are superman but not probable.


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## CrownofWorms

Actually its my kit. It used to be my fathers, but as of now we are using it. He's paying for the pedals btw.


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## oddcam

I bought the DW5000 double pedal used for $150.
I cleaned it up, oiled it, and it runs like new.
I would advise your drummer to do the same.

What is his current double pedal btw?


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## Quinny

+1 on the DW5000 - if he can't hit big speeds and technique on that pedal, it ain't the 5000's fault. I came from years of Iron Cobra and DW5000 singles......decided to get a double pedal...tried Iron Cobra, DW (5/8/9000), Axis, Pearl - in the end came down to the 5000 and the IC for me, both fine pedals, ended up going with the Iron Cobra. Plenty of good pedals out there, particularly second hand, for not a lot of dough.

Last drummer I played with also did some amazing things with the oldest, nastiest no-name pedal I've ever seen... practice and training is very much where it's at, though no doubting a good pedal eases the way somewhat. No need to spend mega bucks though.


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## Epyon6

Basicly the pedals that are the only options for playing fast double bass are axis,iron cobras/speed cobras, pearl eliminators, possibly mapex falcons (never tried em), and the yahmaha flying dragons (direct drives are pretty awsome). Theres a few more like trick pedals ect.... but those are the main pedals. As someone else pointed out you can find used pairs for about half the price, but sometimes people f- them up royaly and they get rusted ect... The DWs are not bad pedals at all but I feel they are kinda weighty and the rocker cam also feels like it has alot more friction then the other pedals. I personally use Axis AL, I split them into 2 individual pedals and they are amazing. Even if you can play at high BPMs with the DWs you prob cant for a decently long time. If hes looking to play technical death metal like I do with needing to play constand double bass throught the whole song, in my eyes axis is the only way to go (or at least something with direct drive), theres a reason why Kollias, Roddy, Inferno, Lyle cooper and so many other technical death metal musicians use them. Also even on the iron cobras the slave pedal sucks, and to be honest I hate them in general they dont feel the same as the primary pedal. And make sure your drummer pays for his own shit. I hope at least some of this information helped, im gonna go have a beer.


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## Steve08

This is a hard question to answer. Nobody is going to get some random pedal and play way faster on it immediately. But some pedals may allow one to execute certain techniques better on, due to the length of the pedalboard, how quickly they respond, etc. And it's definitely _easier_ to play faster on certain pedals, like an Axis, because they respond so quickly. It's certainly not impossible to play really fast on something heavy like an Iron Cobra, but it'd be harder. And in general, every drummer has preferences for what they want to feel under their feet and what they'll play best on. Yes, pedals can be adjusted (although something like say a DW4000 can only have the spring tension be adjusted) but there's only so many things you can adjust. In general, most pedals just won't feel like other pedals, no matter how much you change the settings.

In the end, any pedal that is actually good (there are many of these) will probably get the job done, though for playing super fast all the time, some will definitely be far more preferable, but yeah, Axis, Trick, Pearl Demon Drives or Eliminators, Yamaha Flying Dragon, Iron Cobras (or Speed Cobras-- those are great) Mapex Raptors/Falcons, DW9000s/5000s, etc. are all good in different ways. With a not-so-good pedal I would honestly be far more concerned about the drive shaft than anything else because on a cheaper pedal the drive shaft is most likely going to suck balls, but those are all good so it would be odd to have problems like that.

Also, as a word of warning... Axis pedals aren't like regular pedals at all. Just the whole design feels radically different from any other kind of pedal, even other super fast direct drive ones like the Trick pedals or Demon Drives. So if your drummer decides to go for those there will be a long period of adjustment before he'll be able to really play on them, and other pedals will feel strange to him once he gets used to the Axis pedals. George Kollias, Derek Roddy, Tim Yeung etc. play only Axis and can't really play fast on other pedals, whereas Mike Heller uses mostly Demon Drives (but not just Demon Drives) and can SLAY on pretty much any pedal.


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## b7string

Has anyone watched Gene Hogland's Instructional DVD? He uses some shitty old beat to hell pedals, and he doesn't seem to have any issues  but its what you're used to I guess.

Used pedals are a good idea, and I'd say which brand/model you use matters in the short run, but you'd adapt to whatever your using eventually. 

But yes  instruments (Unless your band is keeping them after the individual leaves or is kicked ou ) should be the responsibility of the individual using them.

Also, I think its better to go lower on the shells, but pay more for better pedals and cymbals and hardware. Even a $500 set of shells can sound really good with good skins tuned properly, but shitty cymbals stick out like a sore thumb, and the pedals and hardware have an effect on your playing.

Again just my


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## murderedNmatrimony

i've been a drummer for the last 16 years and playing death metal for the last 6. i use axis pedals. the longboards. any direct drive you get is going to respond better than traditional chain drive, but then again, a LOT of very fast drummers still use chain driven pedals. it's preference really. but to me, pedals that are built for speed do help.


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## the hittmann

Having owned every high end pedal on the market, i can tell you that a pedal doesnt affect your technique as much as your control and clealiness of the strokes. If you have decent technique, speed shouldn't be a problem. I can sit down at almost any pedal and hit atleast 210. Now put me infront of my pedal and i can do up to 250. But the truth is i never play in that range any way so i can get away on most pedals if i must. Go on craigslist or gc used and pick up some eliminators or cobras. If he is used to playing on a chain drive i dont know why he suddenly feels he can now only play fast on a direct drive. It sounds like he wants you guys to buy him the best just so he doesnt have to, it has nothing to do with his playing. And on a side note, i doubt he is playing in the range of the fastest drummers in the world, ON A CHAIN DRIVE!!!


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## Beat Poet

Has he experimented with different tensions on the batter head, or with different amounts of pillows/sheets inside the kick? I don't play high-tempo double pedal, but I have improved my general skill at it by reducing the amount of rebound from the head, so it feels more like a pad.


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## murderedNmatrimony

the batter head heing tighter will help for rebound. try some aquarian super kicks. 1's or 2's. They are very tough and durable heads. tighten those bad boys down and maybe start playing with plastic, wood, or hard felt beaters. or you can always go the trigger route, which is how i play.


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## Sephiroth952

b7string said:


> Has anyone watched Gene Hogland's Instructional DVD? He uses some shitty old beat to hell pedals, and he doesn't seem to have any issues  but its what you're used to I guess.


They're camcos, my step owns a pair of them, they are pretty awesome pedals. Built like a brick shithouse, they will probably out live him. XD


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## Neon

well, it kinda matters but not at all, axis, speed cobras, shitty pedals, you're the one doing the work, not the pedal. having a good pedal helps with some things, but it doesn't affect technique that much.
i used to play Divine Heresy, Behemoth, Fear Factory and so on songs and stuff on a cheap o double pedal and got a hard time doing the same on a Speed Cobra


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## SeveredTroy

Sephiroth952 said:


> They're camcos, my step owns a pair of them, they are pretty awesome pedals. Built like a brick shithouse, they will probably out live him. XD



I've played some old ass Camcos that kick the shit out of most of the pedals in this discussion. Too bad they don't make em like they used to...

As a drummer of 20+ years that spends the majority of my time playing long stretches of 220-260 bpm double bass, I absolutely agree with the earlier bike reference, it is far easier to hit and maintain high performance with lighter weight, direct response, accurate equipment like the Axis.

I feel that double pedal set ups tend to lag and be less responsive and have less feel in general, no matter the brand, because of the added mass on the left pedal. I have yet to play one that felt equal to 2 separate pedals. 

Also, not to talk smack about many people's favorite pedals but I also find the Iron Cobras to be too heavy and sluggish at high bpm.

I loved my Pearl Eliminators but I couldn't break my speed barrier with them, even after completely changing my playing style/technique so I converted to Axis A Longboards to get at those higher bpms because all of my contemporaries were hitting much higher speeds and better consistency on the Axis pedals using the same technique they had used on their previous pedals, (i.e. IC's, DW's, etc.).

My $0.02


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## DGKarehere

I had cheap Gibraltar double pedals for four years then I decided to go for the iron cobras and I can say that the major change was to have more control in my playing. I was able to reach the same speed, but my playing was more tight !


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## Maniacal

Each to their own. I would say seat height, BD setup etc are just as important as the pedals you use. I have Longboards but never use them, for me they are just too sensitive so I switched to using speed cobras. 

The equipment you use certainly plays a big part in how well you can perform.


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## Konfyouzd

SirMyghin said:


> Why would you be chipping in on his kit is the question of the day. That is his job, especially if he wants something fancy, but even if he doesn't.


 
They're a communist band clearly... 

But I'd say that needing a new set of pedals to play certain things proficiently is a more valid concern than needing a lot of the bullshit guitarists go on with here.


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## Dave_Magos

Maniacal said:


> Each to their own. I would say seat height, BD setup etc are just as important as the pedals you use. I have Longboards but never use them, for me they are just too sensitive so I switched to using speed cobras.
> 
> The equipment you use certainly plays a big part in how well you can perform.



Ergonomics is important, especially in regards to stamina and proper technique. 

Assuming the person has those areas covered, having good quality/properly balanced pedals is the gateway to unlimited potential.


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## Dave_Magos

Konfyouzd said:


> They're a communist band clearly...
> 
> But I'd say that needing a new set of pedals to play certain things proficiently is a more valid concern than needing a lot of the bullshit guitarists go on with here.




Hahaha


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## Dave_Magos

DGKarehere said:


> I had cheap Gibraltar double pedals for four years then I decided to go for the iron cobras and I can say that the major change was to have more control in my playing. I was able to reach the same speed, but my playing was more tight !




Gibraltar pedals are absolute crap. More common sense goes into the packaging they pack the pedals in then the making of the pedals themselves. Iron Cobra was a good step forward.


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## JStraitiff

Lets put it this way: I am not a drummer and i sat down to my stepdad's kit and played a little bit trying to do some double bass patterns and i felt like i couldnt even hit on time. So i thought i was just a shitty drummer having never played before. I was practicing one day and asked my drummer if i could fuck around on his kit and so i sat down and started doing something similar. He had some kind of DW pedal and this time i was able to pound out some pretty sick beats for myself. I think my uneducated experience should go to show that the pedal does definitely matter.

With a crappy pedal like my stepdads, he would have to judge every one of his strokes a second before he wanted to hit them in order to be on time. If your drummer is used to dealing with a quality pedal and you throw him a shitty one, his playing is going to suffer and ultimately so is your band's performance.


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## Dave_Magos

broj15 said:


> i used to dick around on the drum kit when i was in my old band and even my novice feet could tell a difference between a good pedal and a shitty one.
> 
> However i think your drummer should be the one to pay for it, not the "band fund". Band funds should be reserved for things like renting venues, touring expenses (van/ trailer rental, gas etc) not instruments and gear. If the band fund is being used to buy him a fancy pedal then perhaps it should also be used to buy you a fancy new axe




How expensive would that "axe" be? What it'll cost to buy just a decent set of drums would be ruffly the cost of a 900/$1200 guitar & that's just for the drums.. Add Cymbals= $1200 for cymbals that sound just a little better then garbage can lids.. Drum Heads= top and bottom $200 via 5piece.. DBD Pedal= $300 to $600.. Drum sticks= $7 to 10 per pair ECT ECT

Summing that up, to avoid sounding like you're playing on pots and pans, it'll run you ruffly $3000. That's to start playing in your room. If you want to start playing with people, shows, touring ect, you'll need to have bags/cases for drums and hardware, replacement heads, spare parts (if you don't have bags/cases), lots of drum sticks and constant, daily reminders as to why spending so much money just to maintain your drum kit while playing in a band that probably isn't making any money, is worth the trouble. 

I've got ruffly 5K in my drums, and I could easily spend $2000 tomorrow. Drums are the most expensive instrument on that stage to play and maintain. If you don't believe that then you are fooling yourself.


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## JStraitiff

Dave_Magos said:


> How expensive would that "axe" be? What it'll cost to buy just a decent set of drums would be ruffly the cost of a 900/$1200 guitar & that's just for the drums.. Add Cymbals= $1200 for cymbals that sound just a little better then garbage can lids.. Drum Heads= top and bottom $200 via 5piece.. DBD Pedal= $300 to $600.. Drum sticks= $7 to 10 per pair ECT ECT
> 
> Summing that up, to avoid sounding like you're playing on pots and pans, it'll run you ruffly $3000. That's to start playing in your room. If you want to start playing with people, shows, touring ect, you'll need to have bags/cases for drums and hardware, replacement heads, spare parts (if you don't have bags/cases), lots of drum sticks and constant, daily reminders as to why spending so much money just to maintain your drum kit while playing in a band that probably isn't making any money, is worth the trouble.
> 
> I've got ruffly 5K in my drums, and I could easily spend $2000 tomorrow. Drums are the most expensive instrument on that stage to play and maintain. If you don't believe that then you are fooling yourself.



Id be compelled to agree. You are after all hitting them with sticks of wood constantly. Guitarists can get some pretty big costs stacked up for gear but they are definitely not as costly to maintain.


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## Dave_Magos

JStraitiff said:


> Id be compelled to agree. You are after all hitting them with sticks of wood constantly. Guitarists can get some pretty big costs stacked up for gear but they are definitely not as costly to maintain.



Sure man, I agree. I've spent a bit on my guitar equipment and that's just a drop in the bucket compared to what band mates/friends and Members on this Forum have spent and continue to spend. 

That said, if you're a drummer and are ready to step beyond the $900 Sam Ash/Musicians Friend/Interstate Music Cardboard Close-out Sale drum-kits, you can expect to drop upwards to $2000 on just a Shell Pack aka no hardware. 

I am incredibly sympathetic towards young players and or struggling drummers that are trying to build up at least a tolerable drum platform with little to no resources. Mid to High end Cymbals have doubled in price since Copper,Brass and Bronze via the Commodities Market, deemed them almost as valuable as Gold. Couple that with the Drum manufacturing industry that has seen many innovations which has driven up cost and you get a Musical Trade/Hobby that has priced many of its Hopefuls and Aspirants out of the Market. Its quite sad.


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## slowro

Dave_Magos said:


> Sure man, I agree. I've spent a bit on my guitar equipment and that's just a drop in the bucket compared to what band mates/friends and Members on this Forum have spent and continue to spend.
> 
> That said, if you're a drummer and are ready to step beyond the $900 Sam Ash/Musicians Friend/Interstate Music Cardboard Close-out Sale drum-kits, you can expect to drop upwards to $2000 on just a Shell Pack aka no hardware.
> 
> I am incredibly sympathetic towards young players and or struggling drummers that are trying to build up at least a tolerable drum platform with little to no resources. Mid to High end Cymbals have doubled in price since Copper,Brass and Bronze via the Commodities Market, deemed them almost as valuable as Gold. Couple that with the Drum manufacturing industry that has seen many innovations which has driven up cost and you get a Musical Trade/Hobby that has priced many of its Hopefuls and Aspirants out of the Market. Its quite sad.


 
^ so true. Its a massive investment before you start to even learn! I have so much respect for those who work their ass of to pay for their hobby and semi-pro's playing on a budget


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## newamerikangospel

Wow, welcome to the board Troy! Big fans here.


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