# Installing a Zero Fret



## HighPotency (Nov 26, 2011)

Ok, this may have been asked before but I did a few searches and looked on google but I can't find anything about it. 

Can anyone explain to me if installing a zero fret entails anything special? It seems to me that the zero fret would have to be taller than the rest, is that a correct assumption?

I feel like I'm just overthinking it and you can use the same size fretwire as the rest of them. 

TL;DR: What is the difference in method of installing a zero fret and a regular fret?

Thanks,
HighPotency


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## MAGGOTBRAIN (Nov 26, 2011)

Yes zero fret is a bit taller,.,Same fret wire is usually used as the rest on the neck but, its not leveled and crowned and that leaves the extra height needed. Quoting this from memory so I hope I got it correct.
Peace
Jack


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## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 26, 2011)

I was under the impression that zero frets are used on cheaper guitars because it's a cheaper process to do than make a nut and install it properly, but I have seen a zero fret on some pricier guitars.

Why exactly do you want a zero fret? Installing one probably won't be worth it truth be told.


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## HighPotency (Nov 26, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I was under the impression that zero frets are used on cheaper guitars because it's a cheaper process to do than make a nut and install it properly, but I have seen a zero fret on some pricier guitars.
> 
> Why exactly do you want a zero fret? Installing one probably won't be worth it truth be told.


Apparently they help accommodate lower action and the open strings have a sound that's more consistent with the other frets (of course I've heard that a brass nut will accomplish this as well but that's beside the point).

I feel I should add that this will be on an upcoming build, not a modification to an existing guitar.

After seeing Ola Strandberg's guitars, I've become inspired by them and want to try out a zero fret on the guitar I'll be building.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 26, 2011)

Ah ok that's cool, that was my understanding too but I remember a few people complaining about them too.


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## HighPotency (Nov 26, 2011)

Well, I was unsure about it too, so I threw Misha Mansoor an inquiry about it via Formspring and this is his reply:



Misha said:


> Im not really sure if i have noticed any drawbacks. It's purpose is to keep the tone consistent across fretted and open notes, and it allows for the action to be set stupidly low as well!



He also said this in response to another question that was also about his Strandberg but not specifically about the zero fret, but I think is still fairly relevant:



Misha said:


> ...the playability and feel of the guitar are pretty much unparallelled as far as 7 strings go!



Needless to say, this helped sway me.


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## MAGGOTBRAIN (Nov 26, 2011)

Just wanted to add...the zero fret also makes a spot to ground when individual bridge saddles are used with no base.


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## HighPotency (Nov 26, 2011)

MAGGOTBRAIN said:


> Just wanted to add...the zero fret also makes a spot to ground when individual bridge saddles are used with no base.


Crap, I completely forgot about that. 

Yeah, the guitar will be using individual bridges so I'll only have to ground one of them.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 26, 2011)

Nvm, will recieve too much h8


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## HighPotency (Nov 26, 2011)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Nvm, will recieve too much h8


I'm not opposed to constructive criticism. I appreciate it, really. As long as it isn't someone going "hurr durr Schector are teh best giitar evar!" 

I know I won't be able to make a guitar as well as Ola does... I would be crazy if I did! And I know the zero fret won't be the magic key that opens the door to an amazing guitar. This whole build is inspired by Ola and I'm using his design, so it's a very experimental guitar. In fact, I wouldn't even say inspired- I'm basically copying his idea and making the fan a bit more extreme.

It's certainly an ambitious build, but I hope it will pay off. Plus it will be a build I do almost entirely myself, except maybe the fretboard radiusing.


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## silent_k (Nov 27, 2011)

I've been considering the zero fret idea as well -- I'm using Strandberg bridges for an 8-string build. Keep us posted on you progress and process.



HighPotency said:


> It's certainly an ambitious build, but I hope it will pay off. Plus it will be a build I do almost entirely myself, except maybe the fretboard radiusing.



If you're going to be doing all the build work yourself and either already have or will be buying the necessary tools, why not also do the fretboard radius? It *is* a time consuming pain in the ass, especially on harder wood like ebony, but otherwise it's pretty straight forward unless you're doing a compound radius (but even that is doable if you take the time). I got some radius blocks on ebay a couple of years ago that were machined a bit rough, but nothing a little careful sanding couldn't take care of, and they weren't expensive.


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## HighPotency (Nov 27, 2011)

silent_k said:


> I've been considering the zero fret idea as well -- I'm using Strandberg bridges for an 8-string build. Keep us posted on you progress and process.
> 
> 
> 
> If you're going to be doing all the build work yourself and either already have or will be buying the necessary tools, why not also do the fretboard radius? It *is* a time consuming pain in the ass, especially on harder wood like ebony, but otherwise it's pretty straight forward unless you're doing a compound radius (but even that is doable if you take the time). I got some radius blocks on ebay a couple of years ago that were machined a bit rough, but nothing a little careful sanding couldn't take care of, and they weren't expensive.


I'll definitely get a thread going and keep it updated once this gets in motion. As of now I'm still waiting for the body blank to arrive (expected delivery time was 10 days ), and I just bought the neck wood last night. 

As for not doing the fretboard radiusing, I'm buying the blank from LMII which offers radiusing for $9/fretboard. I figured I may as well just have them do it. 
Thinking about it now, LMII's radiusing blocks aren't terribly expensive, but I don't really know much about radiusing a fretboard. From what I can tell, you just put some sandpaper on the block and sand it until it fits to the radius of the block, but that's only my assumption.


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## vansinn (Nov 28, 2011)

Zerofrets _can/may_ work really great, and ensure the same tone fretted/open, but it is a pretty close call.
Unless having played several zerofret guitars enough to know what it potentially does to sound and playability, and thus really like this mechanism, I would recommend against such a mod.
If something is needed in order to maintain same tone fretted vs open string, I would rather opt for a graphite nut.

I am a proponent of zero frets, which are on two of my instruments, but I would not dream of performing such a mod to i.e. my Riot 8, even though I do feel fretted vs open differ ever so slightly in tone.

Do note that a zerofret does not present any lower action than a correctly trimmed nut.

Whatever the benefits of zero frets, do note that a fairly serious convertion to the end of your fretboard will be needed:

The nut is placed right where strings are supposed to roll off for precise intonation.
This means your zero fret must be placed slightly offset to this, as the rounded fretwire doesn't present the same fairly sharply defined roll-off point.

The zero fret will need to sit as secure and tight as any other frets, so you'll likely need to route a little off the end of the board, and glue in a piece of hardwood, into which you can cut the zerofret groove.

You'll of course need to add a guide nut behind the zerofret.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Nov 28, 2011)

^It's going on a build. It's not a mod.

To OP: I think that Vansinn is right in the sense that if you haven't tried it, it may be a good idea to stick to what you know and go with a nut. OR just go and play a guitar with a zero fret and see how you like it.


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## vansinn (Nov 28, 2011)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> ^It's going on a build. It's not a mod.
> 
> To OP: I think that Vansinn is right in the sense that if you haven't tried it, it may be a good idea to stick to what you know and go with a nut. OR just go and play a guitar with a zero fret and see how you like it.



Hehe, I didn't realize it's for a new build 
My comments were meant for someone modding an existing axe.

As this is a build, go with the zerofret if you like this sort of arrangement.
Just make sure to arrange the nut so you have a small amount of break angle overht zerofret onto the nut, to avoid the nut being the main tension carrier.
Too much break angle, OTOH, can result in (especially the wound) strings digging into the zerofret.

Should you later dislike it, it's a lot easier converting from zerofret to fixed nut than the other way around..


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## troyguitar (Nov 28, 2011)

I think at least on Vigier guitars the zero fret uses wire that is easier to install and uninstall without damaging the slot (the flattened end is flat, no barbs on it) as they need to be replaced more often than the rest of the frets.

I'd really like to try an acoustic with a zero fret. My biggest complaint about acoustics is the drastic tone and volume difference between open and fretted strings.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 28, 2011)

I've only noticed this on a few acoustics--the volume difference that is...


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## johnnysitarphil (Dec 1, 2011)

troyguitar said:


> I think at least on Vigier guitars the zero fret uses wire that is easier to install and uninstall without damaging the slot (the flattened end is flat, no barbs on it) as they need to be replaced more often than the rest of the frets.
> 
> I'd really like to try an acoustic with a zero fret. My biggest complaint about acoustics is the drastic tone and volume difference between open and fretted strings.



You should try an old selmer style guitar or a gitane! Ive owned a lulu rheinhardt gitane for 2 years now and its one of the best acoustics Ive played to date. It plays like any electric guitar I have with the tone of an acoustic.  Also the zero fret does just what you were saying. The tone is consistent between open and fretted strings. You should definitely check one out sometime. lol and im not trying to be a gitane fanboy because it doesnt matter what name is printed on a headstock, just how good the guitar really is.


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