# Holdsworth Doesn't Know Theory?



## Konfyouzd (Dec 5, 2012)

Right around 3:10 check what Lynch says to Navaro...


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## Maniacal (Dec 5, 2012)

Yeah, not true. Allan just doesn't look at theory in the traditional sense. For example, he doesn't learn modes, he just sees a scale all over the neck as one. 

He knows how and what to play over chord changes. That is theory. He is pretty amazing at it.


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## tedtan (Dec 5, 2012)

Charlie Parker didn't know theory either, at least in the sense of the names of the different scales/modes/chords/etc. and how they fit together on paper.

But these kind of players definitely know theory in terms of what those scales/modes/chords/etc. sound like and how to apply those sounds to acheive the result they are going for.

In this sense I think its safe to say that they understand pratical theory as opposed to book thoery.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 5, 2012)

Yea that's kinda what I figured. What Holdsworth does just sounds too involved to know nothing.


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## tedtan (Dec 5, 2012)

Yeah, Holdsworth's stuff can get pretty far out there at times, but its not random - the man definitely knows what he is doing. He just may not know the traditional technical terms to explain what he is doing.


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## Shannon (Dec 5, 2012)

I would say while there may be a bit of theory involved, Allan has a unique way of looking at the fretboard. Rather than seeing the individual notes of each scale or mode (like 99.9% of guitarists do), he sees every possible CHORD grouping within a key & uses that as his template for getting around the fretboard. He turns the chord groupings into his own unique scales. That outlook is a HUGE part of his unorthodox sound.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 7, 2013)

^Epic necrobump... 

Is there a way we could shift the topic to talking about that particular approach? I really like that idea, but haven't fully wrapped my head around what you mean.

Could anyone provide some examples?


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## Shannon (Mar 7, 2013)




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## bondmorkret (Mar 8, 2013)

Holdsworth apparently can't read notation, and his approach is a little different. But to say he doesn't know theory is insane. I've transcribed and analysed about 10 different holdsworth tunes, and they carry all the telltale signs of a very experienced improviser.

Littered with melodic minor harmony, diminished scale licks over dominant chords, reharmonisations and substitutions on the fly etc.

From his instructional material he DEFINITELY has a very unorthodox approach to theory. He has strange symbols for chords, and some symmetrical scales that are seemingly of his own invention. But he definitely thinks from a theory point of view, regardless of how unusual it is!


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## Maniacal (Mar 9, 2013)

bondmorkret said:


> Holdsworth apparently can't read notation, and his approach is a little different. But to say he doesn't know theory is insane. I've transcribed and analysed about 10 different holdsworth tunes, and they carry all the telltale signs of a very experienced improviser.
> 
> Littered with melodic minor harmony, diminished scale licks over dominant chords, reharmonisations and substitutions on the fly etc.
> 
> From his instructional material he DEFINITELY has a very unorthodox approach to theory. He has strange symbols for chords, and some symmetrical scales that are seemingly of his own invention. But he definitely thinks from a theory point of view, regardless of how unusual it is!



Would you mind sharing your Holdsworth transcriptions?


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## bondmorkret (Mar 11, 2013)

Maniacal said:


> Would you mind sharing your Holdsworth transcriptions?



Not at all! I could only find a few, I lost a whole load of data recently. But heres three tunes from None Too Soon:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l1gb4fwsaerysb6/aIcvNUt7U-


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## meambobbo (Mar 11, 2013)

i don't think I'm following what he's saying. It seems like he's saying that if someone asked him to play a C major chord, he would play a D minor because it's diatonic to the key of C major. Or maybe he just plays a chord with all 7 notes in C major. In other words, it seems like absolute madness to me.


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 11, 2013)

The day I forget my headphones I find out Shannon posted that vid.


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## Maniacal (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanks, Mr Bond.

Have you got any videos of you covering Holdsworth solos? Would be great to see that.


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## bondmorkret (Mar 12, 2013)

Maniacal said:


> Thanks, Mr Bond.
> 
> Have you got any videos of you covering Holdsworth solos? Would be great to see that.



Ha! I wish.. Lots of videos on my youtube channel, but no covers I'm afraid. Mainly improvisations and free lesson material:

David Bond - YouTube


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