# Do you like epoxy fretboards ?????



## Grosmann (Jun 7, 2008)

this is make for an customer.


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## Zepp88 (Jun 7, 2008)




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## Thrashmanzac (Jun 7, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


>



indeed!


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## Ruins (Jun 7, 2008)

oohhhh fuck! O_O 
can i touch it?


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## Desecrated (Jun 7, 2008)

Thats really cool. How long will it keep it's bling, or will it be scratch in just a couple of weeks ?


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## kristallin (Jun 7, 2008)

Ooooooooooooooooooh, shiny!


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## Chris (Jun 7, 2008)

That's cool as hell. I'd imagine the fingerprint factor would be really high on it and you'd spend a LOT of time cleaning it, but damn if that isn't slick looking.


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## Ramsay777 (Jun 7, 2008)

That is awesome! 

I'm digging the headstock too


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## SplinteredSoul (Jun 7, 2008)

I'd quite like to try it out. It seems it'd either make string bends more fluid, or so smooth that it actually grips your fingers like rubber to tiles. Hard to know. But it certainly looks nice. Is it a finish or a different material altogether?


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## Ishan (Jun 7, 2008)

You don't bend strings on a fretless, no need to  I'd like to have this done to my fretless fingerboard, as it prevent the strings eating up the wood and gives that smooth feeling.


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## Desecrated (Jun 7, 2008)

Ishan said:


> You don't bend strings on a fretless, no need to  I'd like to have this done to my fretless fingerboard, as it prevent the strings eating up the wood and gives that smooth feeling.



You don't ??? dammit I've been doing that all year now


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## D-EJ915 (Jun 7, 2008)

you roll your finger up and down the string on a fretless, watch a "strings" player some time and you'll see how they do it, I'd imagine with the huge scale on the bass it takes a bit more than on say, a viola though


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## Beta (Jun 7, 2008)

Chris said:


> That's cool as hell. I'd imagine the fingerprint factor would be really high on it and you'd spend a LOT of time cleaning it, but damn if that isn't slick looking.



And, judging by the looks, it makes for a nice mirror. WAY shinier than the ebonol on my fretless, and the ebonol reflected light pretty well before it got played in.

I assume you either buff or sand that when it gets too scratched up (to prevent having an uneven board), but how long until it will need to be coated again? A few years of constant play? Never? I'm just curious to know in the event I ever get a fretless with an actual wood fretboard.


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## Desecrated (Jun 7, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> you roll your finger up and down the string on a fretless, watch a "strings" player some time and you'll see how they do it, I'd imagine with the huge scale on the bass it takes a bit more than on say, a viola though



You can slide, but doing bends works also.


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## angus (Jun 7, 2008)

You generally don't bend (for vibrato, that is) on fretless because you don't need to- you can do it a la violin/viola/cello/upright bass and it sounds much much better. For full half/whole step bends, it definitely doesn't sound as nice or smooth as on a fretted instrument. 

I have to say though, I hate listening to people playing fretless slide everywhere. It might be the most annoying sound in music to me.

Nice epoxy job, though. It's definitely a love/hate thing...I generally hate the sound, except on piccolo instruments.


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## Durero (Jun 7, 2008)

Nice!


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## Desecrated (Jun 7, 2008)

angus said:


> You generally don't bend (for vibrato, that is) on fretless because you don't need to- you can do it a la violin/viola/cello/upright bass and it sounds much much better. For full half/whole step bends, it definitely doesn't sound as nice or smooth as on a fretted instrument.
> 
> I have to say though, I hate listening to people playing fretless slide everywhere. It might be the most annoying sound in music to me.
> 
> Nice epoxy job, though. It's definitely a love/hate thing...I generally hate the sound, except on piccolo instruments.



I agree with using cello technique on vibrato, but I can't say that it sounds better or worse when bending half/whole step. 

I think it depends a lot what kind of strings and fretboard you have.


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## Elysian (Jun 7, 2008)

whats the process for this? it looks incredible.


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## angus (Jun 7, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> I agree with using cello technique on vibrato, but I can't say that it sounds better or worse when bending half/whole step.
> 
> I think it depends a lot what kind of strings and fretboard you have.



Bending for vibrato and bending like in a blues solo are two different things- I was trying to distinguish the two cases. 

Bending (transverse to the string) for vibrato is unnecessary on fretless and if often excessive and less smooth than doing it like you would on a cello (longitudinal to the string). You still can, but I don't know why you would- you only do transverse vibrato on fretted instruments because the fret prevent longitudinal changes in pitch.

There is no analog for bending a half/whole/+ step- that's a different case entirely. It doesn't sound the same as sliding the same interval so I don't count them as the same, so that's still fine even if rarely done. I was trying to distinguish those two thigns.

I don't think it matters what strings or fretboard you have, though, at all. What difference do you think they make?


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## Celiak (Jun 7, 2008)

It looks really cool, definitively not for me. But if that's what they want I think they will be very happy with it. Awesome job.


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## kristallin (Jun 7, 2008)

I've always wondered why epoxy fingerboards have been pretty prominent on basses, but never seemed to be accepted by guitarists - how come?


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## angus (Jun 7, 2008)

Because guitarists don't generally play fretless guitars.


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## Desecrated (Jun 7, 2008)

angus said:


> Bending for vibrato and bending like in a blues solo are two different things- I was trying to distinguish the two cases.
> 
> Bending (transverse to the string) for vibrato is unnecessary on fretless and if often excessive and less smooth than doing it like you would on a cello (longitudinal to the string). You still can, but I don't know why you would- you only do transverse vibrato on fretted instruments because the fret prevent longitudinal changes in pitch.
> 
> ...



I've never counted vibrato as bending since it's such a small movement. 

I use the same technique when bending on a fretted and a fretless since I'm used to doing it that way, when I'm improvising blues I don't have time to think if I sshould slide or bend, I just do what comes naturally. But I also use slide on both fretted and unfretted, sometimes a slide will be faster then a bend. 

I think that roundwonds would scrape against the fretboard and maybe make a weird sound when bending instead of sliding, and that some flatwounds on a epoxy, glass, metal fretboard probably slides smother and creating almost the same sound as a slide. 

Edit; 
I just tried playing some bends vs slides, and on a halfnote bend/slide I can't hear any difference, but on the wholenote you can hear some difference because the slide often moves faster and I don't use as much vibrato on the slide as I do on the bend.


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## Mattmc74 (Jun 7, 2008)

Wow! Thats looks really nice ! Nice work!


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## kristallin (Jun 7, 2008)

angus said:


> Because guitarists don't generally play fretless guitars.



You see a lot of epoxy fretboards used in fretted basses, too.


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## angus (Jun 8, 2008)

I don't know where you are looking- I've never encountered that ever, and I'm a bass player, not a guitarist.

Gloss coated maple or (rarely) ebony, sure, but definitely NOT epoxy coated. They're very different things.


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## Zepp88 (Jun 8, 2008)

angus said:


> I don't know where you are looking- I've never encountered that ever, and I'm a bass player, not a guitarist.
> 
> Gloss coated maple or (rarely) ebony, sure, but definitely NOT epoxy coated. They're very different things.



the Cort Curbow.


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## angus (Jun 8, 2008)

It's not epoxy coated. It's buffed ebonol.


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## Zepp88 (Jun 8, 2008)

angus said:


> It's not epoxy coated. It's buffed ebonol.



I figured it was the same kinda stuff.


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## Beta (Jun 8, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> I figured it was the same kinda stuff.



Nah. Someone once explained ebonol as being kind of like what bowling balls are made of. Hard, flexible, but still pretty much a plastic.


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## Desecrated (Jun 8, 2008)

kristallin said:


> You see a lot of epoxy fretboards used in fretted basses, too.



Because guitarists are more "traditional"/conservative then bass players? Anything that isen't a 21 fret fender is the spawn of Satan


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## darren (Jun 8, 2008)

There's no better fretboard for a fretless than epoxy resin on rosewood or ebony. Jaco Pastorius used to do that to his basses and he had just stellar tone.


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## angus (Jun 8, 2008)

Yeah but the most distinctive part of his tone wasn't the epoxy; he sounded just about the same on a different or borrowed bass. The epoxy he used on his rosewood board was a different type to what's on the ebony here, too- it was a much, much less hard setting version.


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## ibznorange (Jun 8, 2008)

post-reaction epoxy _is_ plastic man. and if you look around at the studio musician circles, many of them have epoxied boards. Epoxied boards are NOT as uncommon as youre making them sound. Not exactly standard either though, just not super freakin rare. Bassists really are frequently more open minded more often than guitarists. not saying theres not floods of ignorant closed minded bassists out there. just its way more common to see unothrodox material selections etc on custom bass shop websites than guitar websites.

a question though, so what if its different epoxy? rosewood and ebony arent exactly similar either. 

Not trying to insult you or start anything but your whole argument just seems a bit off kilter dude. Maybe im just missing something though


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## Beta (Jun 8, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> a question though, so what if its different epoxy? rosewood and ebony arent exactly similar either.



Do instruments with rosewood fretboards sound the same as instruments with ebony fretboards? No, and ebony is more dense than rosewood. Different epoxies may have different densities, and epoxy coatings with different densities will probably have a slightly different sound.

We really need one of the luthiers here to jump in and drop some knowledge on us.


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## ibznorange (Jun 8, 2008)

oh i get that, i doubt we disagree on that at all. Im just not seeing where thats coming into play on the "epoxy boards are uncommon" issue, unless that was just a seperate thing


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## angus (Jun 8, 2008)

It is a seperate thing, but who said epoxy is uncommon? I said it's not at all common on FRETTED basses. It's still less common than raw/oiled (ie, not hard) finishes on fretless, but is still plenty common. 

"My argument" seems off kilter because I never said it was uncommon on fretless!  It's just not something that happens on fretted because there is absolutely no reason to do it and it would be ridiculously hard to apply.


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## TomAwesome (Jun 8, 2008)

That's slick! I want to hear how that sounds.


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## ibznorange (Jun 8, 2008)

ok, so its settled, i did just miss something in what you said


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## yevetz (Jun 8, 2008)

Looks awesome


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## msherman (Jun 9, 2008)

Jaco`s tone had nothing to do with the epoxy coated F/B. It is obtained by playing on the bridge pup only, with the tone control rolled back around 3/4 ( 1/4 from bottom), and finger pick close to the bridge.
It is harder to obtain that sound with active pups, but tweaking the mid contour will get you close.

As for the epoxy affecting tone.....it sure does
Epoxy is a polymer.
I am not a proponent of it, as it accents the string rattle, and loses the woody tone. 

My 7 string fretless has a cocobolo f/b, and I have never had to dress the board with well over 3000 hours of playing on it, the same with my upright, so epoxy coating isn`t neccessary. 

Some people prefer it, but the majority of bassists don`t.

Listen to some of Pino Paladino`s work to give you an idea on vibratto technique`s used in fretless.
He is one of the best in the buisiness. Don Henley`s "Sunset Grill" is a fine example.
Pete Townsend`s "Give Blood" is another example.


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## Grosmann (Jun 10, 2008)

Epoxy is an polymer and cheange a bit the sound of bass after its aplied.I`m not an fan of this but if the client order i can make it. In this case the client dont want to use flatwound strings .He want to use normal strings so to not used the fretboard he came to my workshop to put on the fretboard an epoxy layer.As you can said i make the job well and the client was more then hapy.
yes in time the epoxy surface need to be refinished .


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