# I think I lost my friend to radical feminism and my own assholery.



## pfizer (Dec 6, 2015)

Sorry for the post guys, but I don't really have anyone else at the moment and I'm having trouble sleeping.

So, I've been friends with this girl from work for a long time; she was pretty, nice and we had a lot in common. I looked for signs that she might be interested in me romantically and gathered my courage to ask her out -- she wasn't. She said that while I was a great guy, I just wasn't her type. And I told her of course, I understand, it was worth a shot. I also told her that I just needed some space for a while; for a few weeks we still hung out and talked, but I was still hurting a bit from the rejection and so I tried to minimize contact with her, attempting to get over my romantic feelings for her. 

I told her this, that I needed some space to get over my feelings for her and that all would eventually go back to normal. 

What I did not expect was for her to suddenly turn on me, calling me an entitled asshole and that just because I got rejected by her, that I had no right to treat her like that. She yelled this out in the workplace, embarrassing as hell since I never told anyone that I liked her. I tried to calm her down, to remind her that I told her that of course I'd be feeling a bit hurt and rejected, that of course I needed some time to get over my feelings for her before we could hang out as friends again. She wouldn't have any of it though, told me to check my privilege and to delete her number from my contacts.

It's been two weeks since then guys and I've been doing my best to try and get back in contact with her. I am, of course, still trying my best to get over her (since I've nursed romantic feelings for her for the better part of a year) but I actually miss her friendship a lot more. I actually followed her tumblr for a while, where she made a number of passive-aggressive posts about male-privilege and feminism. It's like I didn't know her anymore; it turned out my holding doors open and trying to buy her stuff had been offensive to her all this time. I just wish I knew before hand all this information because I still really do miss her.

Any advice?


----------



## remus1710 (Dec 6, 2015)

man... if she did that to u... i m sorry to say... that she wasn t ur friend... she was thee just for having fun and that s all... if u still want her for that... u should give it a shot... one more time... but i personally hate this kind of people... maybe that s why for the last 3-4 years i reduced my friend list to only 2-3  hope all will be good for u


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Dec 6, 2015)

Given I don't know her side of the story, I can't comment with too much accuracy. Still, with the information given I say try to move on. She sounds like a bitch. It sounds like a huge over reaction. As a woman and a feminist, I don't see the logic in getting so butthurt over a guy needing to collect himself. In fact, I'd appreciate the fact that he was willing to come to terms with it and remain friends without further pressuring me.

Sounds like if you do stay friends there are likely more problems up the road. I say let it rest for a good long while and if it really means that much to you, then try to re establish contact, but don't break your back trying.


----------



## HoneyNut (Dec 6, 2015)

From your description, if you have already mentioned to her that you might need some space, and she reacted by yelling you at your workplace and telling you to 'check your privilege'? 

Not worth a second. You should think for yourself and acknowledge that you have some self-respect. 

This person is obviously not a someone genuine at heart, just a fake with a fair-weather mask on. 

Since it's at your workplace, i'd just maintain formality and 'cordiality'. "hi, how are you? I'm fine thank you....oh yeah the weather sucks today..."


If you really need to confront the situation:
"I am sorry about how things turned out...I really didn't mean it that way...and I definitely am not the kind of person you protrayed me as...anyways, we should get back to our work"

If you want to push it:
"I'd expect an apology"



Anyways, man, not worth it. Forget about your bullcrap feelings.


----------



## ghost_of_karelia (Dec 6, 2015)

That's completely unfair on you, though I have to say the tone of your post and the complete lack of bitterness (maybe due to residual affection, I don't know) paints you as the type of guy that'd be an amazing catch for anyone.

As Jeesan quite rightly said: *you have some self-respect* so nurture it. The pain will ease with time. In the meantime, you have guitars and SS.org.


----------



## Dana (Dec 6, 2015)

sometimes you just gotta move on man.... and i know thats a tough one to accept.

good luck dude. plenty of awesome girls out there who appreciate an honest guy


----------



## HoneyNut (Dec 6, 2015)

reading your post again, about her passive aggressive posts about gender issues...in this scenario she has insecurity issues and other issues she needs to resolve by herself. None of that has anything to with you. You cant fix that. She has to grow up and deal with her fostered anger. she has these issues. You helped expose them, if anything.

No point wasting time over a topic you really wont learn much from. you just observed a crazy person. thats all. you were wasting your time growing feelings for her.

men have issues too. lot of crazy men. but women too. nobody's perfect. similarly this person isnt in a situation where they will acknowledge anything you do for them. rather , she'll hate you...because you forgot to 'check your priviledge', and opened the door for her.

no, she isnt a feminist. or someone with ANY ideology. she's just ....ed up. and mannerless.


----------



## HoneyNut (Dec 6, 2015)

I'll be honest...I'm in my early 30s and not in a relationship.

I asked a girl out last night. Asked her if she wanted to come with me to the "Syrian Refugee Welcome Party" in Toronto (I'm not political, just welcoming refugees out of peace). She agreed since it's very human to support people who are struggling.

Later. we found out that she has work, and I got called in to work as well. So I asked her if she wanted to meetup earlier and maybe get to know each other. 

Guess what she said?
her: "Hey, is this about the Refugee Welcoming party or are you asking me out on a date?
me: "well...."
her: "haha...I can hang out with you...but to be honest, I have a boyfriend...but I can hang out with you as a friend"....

...and we agreed that we might meet to hang out and go to the welcoming party or something..

I know she won't call or anything. But, at least she handled it smoothly. 

If I told her "hey, I have feelings for you, and can't meet up with you cause I need some time"...Im sure she would have understood.


----------



## lemeker (Dec 6, 2015)

I've been here before, and still kinda am. I have tried for many "years" to try to show a very close friend of mine how I really feel, and had been rejected sooo many times. I tried for many years to keep it platonic, all along really just fooling myself. For my own sanity, I haven't seen her face to face since last January after I took her to a hockey game, where she pretty much played an app game with her then new man. It just got to the point where i'm exhausted and it's just worth my time. It hurt's really bad still, but you know, it's not my fault, I did nothing wrong, and refuse to hang my head.

Through all of this, it's cost me some respect with my friends, and I lost a young lady that I did care for very much too, and perhaps could have started a family with.

It's certainly not fair she turned on you, for simply being honest. I agree with Dana, as hard as it will be (this i know personally), you gotta move on. Keep your head up and keep the faith. When you least expect it, you'll find the right one and forget all of this.


----------



## russmuller (Dec 6, 2015)

pfizer said:


> What I did not expect was for her to suddenly turn on me, calling me an entitled asshole and that just because I got rejected by her, that I had no right to treat her like that. She yelled this out in the workplace, embarrassing as hell since I never told anyone that I liked her. I tried to calm her down, to remind her that I told her that of course I'd be feeling a bit hurt and rejected, that of course I needed some time to get over my feelings for her before we could hang out as friends again. She wouldn't have any of it though, told me to check my privilege and to delete her number from my contacts.



Anyone who behaves like that is not coming from a place of enlightened compassion. If she really cared about you as a friend, she'd acknowledge your feelings instead of invalidating them. You feel rejected, and that's totally normal. Trying to get a little space to let those feelings cool off is a totally responsible thing to do, especially when you are genuinely interested in having an enduring friendship.

Based on the way you describe it, the only one asserting privilege here is her. For her to react so negatively, and in such an embarrassing way, because she feels entitled to your time and attention regardless of your feelings is rather ironic.

Nothing about feminism gives anyone the right to be a jerk to anybody else.


----------



## pfizer (Dec 6, 2015)

Thanks to all for the support 

Yeah, right now I'm still kind of recovering from that. She was (is?) my friend for quite a while before I started looking at her in a romantic light so it's difficult for me to just go "screw it, I'm out". Objectively, yes, if I was as well-adjusted as I should be, I'd go and make new friends. 

I'm still giving her the benefit of the doubt, even if she didn't give it to me. Even if what I apparently did is a few steps away from rape. I'm really scared I could actually lose my job and my other friends because of this. I never held her hand, never kissed her, I don't think I even ever directly touched her skin. 

Ironically, she's actually the first girl I decided to pursue because I thought that being friends first would be better and because I trust (trusted?) her. 

This sucks. I don't know if I should play me some John Denver love songs or the entirety of Pantera's discography.


----------



## The Reverend (Dec 6, 2015)

I don't think you're an asshole for that. How old are y'all? She doesn't really understand feminism and male privilege if she's acting like such an asshole to you. You did everything right, man. I think she's conflating your need to heal after a rejection with some kind of "friend-zone" guilt, which isn't what you were doing. 

Like everyone else said, give her space. Be cool with her at work, but don't get too down about it. Life moves on, and she'll be your friend again. If you really want to talk about it with her, just let her know that you weren't trying to guilt her for not liking you, that it was just you needing some time. I fail to see how you were exercising your privilege here, but she sounds young and misinformed.


----------



## lemeker (Dec 6, 2015)

pfizer said:


> Thanks to all for the support
> 
> Yeah, right now I'm still kind of recovering from that. She was (is?) my friend for quite a while before I started looking at her in a romantic light so it's difficult for me to just go "screw it, I'm out". Objectively, yes, if I was as well-adjusted as I should be, I'd go and make new friends.
> 
> ...




even better than just listening to tunes, pick up your instrument and put pen to paper....start writing.....very theraputic.


----------



## russmuller (Dec 6, 2015)

lemeker said:


> even better than just listening to tunes, pick up your instrument and put pen to paper....start writing.....very theraputic.



^THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## HoneyNut (Dec 6, 2015)

pfizer said:


> This sucks. I don't know if I should play me some John Denver love songs or the entirety of Pantera's discography.



1. hey jude
2. message in a bottle
3. beat it
4. smooth criminal
5. sultans of swing
6. mission impossible theme

stuff that'll divert your mind. stuff that you enjoy. that's fun...possibly cheesy too!

IMO Pantera could be a sugar high that has a crash. lol


----------



## lelandbowman3 (Dec 6, 2015)

I'm going to preface this by saying I'm in no way against gender equality. But neo-radical feminism is a plague that needs to be scoured from the earth.

Honestly? Clean break. Radical feminism is unforgiving and will never admit when it is wrong and has no problem taking everything from you as justification. It might suck, but you have to do what makes you happy and what preserves your well-being. Misandry from the radical fems is something that not enough people take seriously. Malicious intent against another human being is wrong, no matter color, religion, or gender.

Sorry pfizer, but just cut your losses, write some awesome stuff, and don't look back.
It's not worth what her victim mentality can conjure up and spread around.
This may make you feel better:
https://www.facebook.com/AntiFeministGroup/?fref=ts


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Dec 6, 2015)

Anti-feminism is horse ..... Getting rejected by a woman and then pissing all over women/women's rights as a whole takes you one step closer to being that prick who shot a bunch of people because women didn't date him. 

By all means get annoyed and voice concerns against people who go overboard, but .... any group calling itself anti-feminism.


----------



## coffeeflush (Dec 6, 2015)

Girls are weird.


That being said, I found me a keeper. 

But, if I had any luck with girls I don't think I would be half the guitarist I am today. Life is a process, even the people who diss you have a purpose. So don't worry.


----------



## ghost_of_karelia (Dec 6, 2015)

Although I agree that "anti-feminism" is rather too far, I think you're focusing on the wrong part of lelandbowman's post. The most important sentence (quotes are broken sorry) in my view is without a doubt this one:

*Malicious intent against another human being is wrong, no matter color, religion or gender.*

Take all the -isms and -ists and anti- out of the world and you have that very very important piece of knowledge.


----------



## Demiurge (Dec 6, 2015)

There doesn't need to be a gender-politics angle: if somebody makes a romantic overture that is not welcomed or returned- they need to drop it and understand that being upset with their target is immature. Full stop. Accepting that other people might not feel about you the way you feel about them (and it not being their fault) is part of growing up.

There is something to be said about how pop culture informs expectations, though. If a guy wants a girl and his love is unrequited, his yearning and continued pursuit is often considered romantic and noble. When the genders are reversed, the woman's yearning is portrayed as either sad or crazy.


----------



## Black43 (Dec 6, 2015)

Majority of the time, if she has a tumblr, that should be a sign of what's to come.

Sorry to hear what happened. If she really went to all the trouble to embarrass you at work of all places, she's not and never was your friend. As hard as it is, steer clear.


----------



## lemeker (Dec 6, 2015)

Demiurge said:


> If a guy wants a girl and his love is unrequited, his yearning and continued pursuit is often considered romantic and noble.



I have heard people spin this to I'm being stalked. One example in particular was with young lady I used to work with. Apparently this guy was coming to the store and going to her line so he can talk to her. When I asked a little more about it, the guy wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary, wasn't following her, or anything like that, per her words, but for some reason this guy was supposedly "stalking her". The hypocrisy in it was I did the same thing, only difference was she was interested in me....


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Dec 6, 2015)

ghost_of_karelia said:


> Although I agree that "anti-feminism" is rather too far, I think you're focusing on the wrong part of lelandbowman's post. The most important sentence (quotes are broken sorry) in my view is without a doubt this one:
> 
> *Malicious intent against another human being is wrong, no matter color, religion or gender.*
> 
> Take all the -isms and -ists and anti- out of the world and you have that very very important piece of knowledge.



Which is well and good aside from the fact that they posted an anti-feminism group immediately afterwards. Not really hard to see someone's stance on something if they post things like that.

Its kinda like the guy who says "well I'm not racist, but *insert incredibly racist statement here.*"


----------



## TheHandOfStone (Dec 6, 2015)

*Radicalizing the Romanceless*


> Barry is possibly the most feminist man who has ever existed, palpably exudes respect for women, and this is well-known in every circle feminists frequent. He is reduced to apophatic complaints about how sad he is that he doesn&#8217;t think he&#8217;ll ever have a real romantic relationship.
> 
> Henry has four domestic violence charges against him by his four ex-wives and is cheating on his current wife with one of those ex-wives. And as soon as he gets out of the psychiatric hospital where he was committed for violent behavior against women and maybe serves the jail sentence he has pending for said behavior, _he is going to find another girlfriend approximately instantaneously._
> 
> ...


*EDIT:* To clarify, the men's rights movement houses some truly evil people. But it also lures genuinely _good_ people who are put off by the lack of compassion from feminists who _supposedly_ want men to be more "open" and "emotional," but treat even the most well-intentioned displays of romantic frustration as signs of entitlement.


----------



## HoneyNut (Dec 6, 2015)

which is why i said that men and women, both have issues like insecurity, which lead them to behave in ways that is unusual. this has nothing to do with anti-feminism to begin with. The girl has insecurity issues clearly.

Imagine if a girl got rejected, and then demands some space, but the guy retaliates and calls her a whore in front of his peers. Clearly, the guy has insecurity issues in this regard. He could have been more sensible and just do something sweet in return. Not scream at her in hopes of getting some pats on the back.

i hate ppl like that...taking things to their advantage and playing the card right on time.


----------



## BucketheadRules (Dec 6, 2015)

She sounds like an asshole.

Also, that essay TheHandOfStone posted is excellent.


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Dec 6, 2015)

That quote was full of assumptions and stereotypes. Not all feminist rants are mean spirited, and not nearly all MRA stuff is level headed and calm. 

People just have Pre-conceived ideas. When people say "feminist," they think of evil barking "men are evil" stereotypes. In my experience, out in the real world, that .... is few and far between. 

Its all whatever though, and a little off topic. My point remains that if all is as told, then the girl is nuts. Feminism is a horse .... cause to hide behind as you apparently respected her boundries and that somehow offended her.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 6, 2015)

Maybe she'll eventually calm down as well and realize she overreacted. Being told things like, "Check your privilege," doesn't really sit well with me in situations where a person hasn't actually done anything sexist. When people do that, I always feel as though they're responding to me in a manner that someone ELSE actually deserves. I always wonder, "My goodness... Who hurt you?"

This is, of course, assuming that you didn't voice your concerns in a way that would come across as a sexist or whatever else. It doesn't sound as though you did.


----------



## lelandbowman3 (Dec 6, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Which is well and good aside from the fact that they posted an anti-feminism group immediately afterwards. Not really hard to see someone's stance on something if they post things like that.
> 
> Its kinda like the guy who says "well I'm not racist, but *insert incredibly racist statement here.*"



If you look at how aggressive, misandric, online feminism, which is what is predominately found on sites like tumblr, and which is perpetuated by people who are out for a specific agenda, like what pfizer is experiencing, THAT is what that group is against. Not equality, not the pursuit of women's rights and discourse. Please don't insinuate that I do not support women's rights and what they have and are suffering for just because I do not support the "smash the patriarchy, looking at someone can be rape, all males rape, I want equality, but not for men" feminism that has poisoned what the word originally stood for.

Pfizer, I hope all goes well in your situation, I'm done with this thread.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

lelandbowman3 said:


> "smash the patriarchy, looking at someone can be rape, all males rape, I want equality, but not for men" feminism that has poisoned what the word originally stood for...



I really and truly thought folks who pointed this sort of thing out were overreacting... Until I met an entire group of women like this on the internet. They may have been trolling me. Not sure... But DAYUM...


----------



## Promit (Dec 7, 2015)

Soooo... anyone want to entertain the possibility that there are _two_ sides to this story?

Not that it terribly matters unless the girl he's into is also an avid extended range guitarist, of course. And sure, it's entirely possible that this story is accurate and she's got issues to work out. No shortage of people with issues in this world. But just _maybe_ what the OP said to the girl is not what came across, for whatever reason? Sometimes people have a quite poor sense for how their words, body language, and actions are perceived outside by others. Can I suggest that, just maybe, the OP said or did something that did not convey the level of innocence stated? (Although the "check your privilege" line is a bad one...)

That said and regardless of how things actually went, the correct course of action is simply to leave the girl alone and move on with your life. In general these types of situations only degrade from further attempts at contact, no matter how sincere or polite.

(P.S. That anti-feminism facebook link was way out of line.)


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Dec 7, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I really and truly thought folks who pointed this sort of thing out were overreacting... Until I met an entire group of women like this on the internet. They may have been trolling me. Not sure... But DAYUM...



Likely not trolling. There are lots of ....ty people on the internet, and in irl. All the same, there's no need for any form of anti-feminism, only anti ....headedness. Feminism in its truest form isn't about bringing men down, but bringing women up. Gender equality as it were. Again, going off topic so I won't drag it on.

@Promit, I was thinking the same. If people only ever hear one side of a story its always easy to say "well yeah, you're clearly right" since people tend to, even if unknowingly, color the story in their favor. It's entirely possible that OP was out of line, hence my qualifiers I've sprinkled in. Regardless, my advice is the same regardless of who is to blame. Mending the friendship or moving on.


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Dec 7, 2015)

lemeker said:


> I have heard people spin this to I'm being stalked. One example in particular was with young lady I used to work with. Apparently this guy was coming to the store and going to her line so he can talk to her. When I asked a little more about it, the guy wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary, wasn't following her, or anything like that, per her words, but for some reason this guy was supposedly "stalking her". The hypocrisy in it was I did the same thing, only difference was she was interested in me....



Sorry I missed this and your previous post. 

First off, if you get turned down, that should be it. You took a girl who shot you down to a game and she was disinterested. Why should I feel bad for you? She made it clear she had no interest, you kept persuing, and she remained disinterested. It was a waste of your time long before you seem to think. After she turned you down it was a waste of time persuing her romantically.

The quoted post is embarrassing. Someone making constant passes on you when you don't want them may not be stalking, but its still creepy. Someone making passes who you like in return is not the same thing. That's not hypocritical, it's how romance and flirting works. I have creeps who try to flirt with me, and even after I tell them I'm not interested they keep at it. They'll come to my work where I'm a captive audience and do the same .... I tell them not to. That's not okay. When my SO flirted/flirts with me and went out of their way to talk to me before we were together, I reciprocated because I liked her. I don't owe every single dirty prick that as a courtesy. To call that hypocritical is obsurd. For the record, there are plenty of guys who flirt until they realize I'm uncomfortable, apologize and don't keep on flirting, which is the appropriate way to go about it. Hell, I've made friends with people that way.

Edit: apologies for the double post. I'm in bed on mobile and editing in quotes is difficult.


----------



## TheHandOfStone (Dec 7, 2015)

One can criticize ideas _as practiced_ without condemning them in principle. Conflation between the two enables people of all ideological persuasions to get away with bad behavior.


----------



## Hollowway (Dec 7, 2015)

Well, I'm essentially in agreement with everyone here. The situation sucks, because you cannot control how you feel, but at least know that you did nothing wrong. 

To take the pain out of it, harness these feelings while you have them. I've written by FAR the best material when I'm suffering from unrequited love. And I don't just mean music - write down how you feel about different things. Somewhere where you can refer back to them. You'll be able to express a far deeper part of humanity than you will when you're happy. Even if you just see a news report on Darfur or something, and it triggers some emotion. Write down how it makes you feel and what you think. You'll be amazed at the depth of your feelings and writings, and you will have a release, and some really good material you can later turn into lyrics or poetry whatever.

I also want to say how eerie it is to have all of you guys on here so remarkably similar to me. We really just share a love for a genre of music, but man, it's like I agree with damn near everything that people write on this forum. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother with most of my friends I can meet in person. They'll say and do stuff, and I'll think, "I have nothing in common with you." But you guys, both at a fundamental and superficial level, share a lot of the same traits and ethics I do. Strange. But awesome!


----------



## Vrollin (Dec 7, 2015)

Piss her off, you don't need that .... in your life, she's going down a rabbits whole of femnazism and wont be saved....


----------



## jwade (Dec 7, 2015)

It seems pretty harsh that someone you had maintained a real friendship with for however long couldn't be bothered to be open with you a lot earlier that the door-holding and such was 'offensive'. The violent public outburst seems like a really petty, childish thing to do, and I'd be curious if she's responding so negatively due to prior situations with abandonment or harassment.

It's a bummer situation for you, and I hope you find a positive outlet for your pain.


----------



## BucketheadRules (Dec 7, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> First off, if you get turned down, that should be it. You took a girl who shot you down to a game and she was disinterested. Why should I feel bad for you? She made it clear she had no interest, you kept persuing, and she remained disinterested. It was a waste of your time long before you seem to think. After she turned you down it was a waste of time persuing her romantically.



Doing exactly this currently, boy don't I feel like a f*cking idiot.


----------



## vansinn (Dec 7, 2015)

Always difficult commenting on a situation not personally experienced, not being there, not personally knowing both parts..

I will say, however, that having been in a meeting-at-the-job situation myself, the mechanism I've adapted is simply "don't do inmates".
I never again want to drop a rewarding development job in order to be with a girl who later drops me and smacks it in my face saying "you're unhealthy" - just because I had a period of not being successful (working on adding qualification, later leading to international head-hunting) while she was into a successful PHD program.


----------



## blacai (Dec 7, 2015)

pfizer said:


> This sucks. I don't know if I should play me some John Denver love songs or the entirety of Pantera's discography.



I would check the FS section.


----------



## vilk (Dec 7, 2015)

Dude if a girl is a bitch before you can even date her imagine how much of a bitch she'd be if she was your girlfriend.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

^


----------



## pfizer (Dec 7, 2015)

Still appreciate the support guys and girls 

Believe me, this would be much easier if she was unpleasant from the beginning but like I said, we were friends for a long time before this. I refuse to believe a woman's studies class could change my friend like this. I actually attended a few times with her and the professor was very nice and welcoming towards the few male students who attended her lectures.

Here's what I said to her verbatim when she confronted me:
"I'm sorry, I just need some space for a while. It honestly still hurts to be around you and that's not your fault. It's my problem to take care of. I just need a little time to get over you, alright? I promise everything will be back to normal soon." 

Then she called me entitled, that she didn't owe me a relationship and that I was part of rape culture.

I really am trying to find out what I did. I've tried apologizing but I can't ever seem to get the answer right when she asks me specifically what I'm sorry for. It just makes her madder and colder.

I'm honestly trying to move on and play guitar to ease some frustration but there's always a crushing guilt in my chest.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

Well the reason you can't get the answer right when she asks you what you're sorry for is because based on what you said, you really have no reason to be sorry other than the fact that you don't want her to be upset with you.

FURTHER, the fact that she would say something petty like, "Sorry for what?" just seems a bit over the top. The fact that you're trying so hard to apologize for something that I'd have just said "eff this chick..." over speaks volumes in my mind. 

Perhaps you should just distance yourself from her for a while anyway. Maybe she'll miss your friendship and you guys can talk about this in a more level-headed manner once some of the dust has begun to settle.


----------



## russmuller (Dec 7, 2015)

pfizer said:


> Here's what I said to her verbatim when she confronted me:
> "I'm sorry, I just need some space for a while. It honestly still hurts to be around you and that's not your fault. It's my problem to take care of. I just need a little time to get over you, alright? I promise everything will be back to normal soon."
> 
> Then she called me entitled, that she didn't owe me a relationship and that I was part of rape culture.
> ...



I don't know what part of respecting her position of not being interested in you is an assertion of entitlement. She doesn't owe you anything, that's true. We are all a part of rape culture, and that is also true.

What you are entitled to are your feelings, of respect, admiration, desire, longing, rejection, confusion, etc... You don't owe her anything. You don't owe her your own suffering. She is not entitled to your time and friendship, so I don't understand why there should be a problem if you need some space.

Stop apologizing. If you really REALLY still care and want to maintain a friendship, I would suggest putting it like this:

1. I understand that you're mad with me
2. I don't understand why, but I care that I've hurt and offended you
3. Please understand that this was not my intention
4. I respect that you are not interested in having a relationship with me, and I'm not trying to change your mind
5. But if you actually care about our friendship, will you please explain exactly what I've done wrong?
6. I want to be your friend, and I don't want to upset you or anyone else like this again, but if my problem is ignorance then I need you to enlighten me.

If she can't meet you in the middle on terms like that, she's not your friend and you're better off cutting ties. I've dated girls who won't tell you why they're mad, and it's always a miserable time. Despite how hurtful the experience might be, you've probably dodged a bullet.


----------



## russmuller (Dec 7, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> FURTHER, the fact that she would say something petty like, "Sorry for what?" just seems a bit over the top. The fact that you're trying so hard to apologize for something that I'd have just said "eff this chick..." over speaks volumes in my mind.



YUP!!!! If she thinks "sorry for what?" is an acceptable response, "mad about what?" is a reasonable stance for you to take with her. Sounds like she's on a power trip. 100% this is a situation where you should cut your losses.


----------



## cwhitey2 (Dec 7, 2015)

Fack her....why would you want someone like that in your life?


I was in the same situation as you were...I just cut off communication with her. To this day she will randomly ask me why we don't hang out anymore....my answer every time is "I don't travel that way much anymore"...little does she no I'm hanging out 2 miles from her house every other day. I want to tell her the truth is...I ....ing hate your boy friend and I don't want to be friends with because of your poor choices. (lil back ground for ya, she literally quit her job making $40 and hour only to take a job as a manager of Denny's for like $12...Im pretty sure it was for her douche BF)

And yes...I know I'm a selfish asshole.


----------



## ncfiala (Dec 7, 2015)

Forget about her (believe me I know that is easier said than done). I have no idea why she is even mad. Plus you need to get over her and you can't do that if you are around her.

I was in a similar situation many years ago. I fell hard for a friend but she had a boyfriend. I asked her out anyway (dick move on my part) but she wouldn't. But she didn't go crazy on me. We continued to be friends. Eventually I couldn't take it anymore so I wrote her a letter and never saw her again.


----------



## lemeker (Dec 7, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Sorry I missed this and your previous post.
> 
> First off, if you get turned down, that should be it. You took a girl who shot you down to a game and she was disinterested. Why should I feel bad for you? She made it clear she had no interest, you kept persuing, and she remained disinterested. It was a waste of your time long before you seem to think. After she turned you down it was a waste of time persuing her romantically.
> 
> ...




Chokey, the girl I took to the game is not the same one from the store. The young lady I took to the game has a been a friend of mine for over 20 years. We still are, and will always be. We have discussed our feelings multiple times as adults, and yes she had said friends....I didn't get it through my thick skull. There is absolutely no weirdness or any rift between us because of it. My thinking was that if I continued to show her how much I cared, that maybe she would see, alas that didn't happen. Trust me, I don't feel sorry for myself either, I actually feel quite pathetic for trying to hang out for hope for so long. I just made the decision finally that this is a game (so to speak) that I just don't wish to play anymore. I still talk to her and will continue to be there for her when she really needs me.

As far as the girl in the store, I'm not sure what she really said to the guy about leaving her alone or whatnot, she never told me that. All I got was this guy keeps coming in my line and chatting with me......he's stalking me. The way she described it to me, it sounded like an individual who was sincerely interested in trying to find out a little more about her. Nothing creepy there.

The reason I though it was a bit hypocritical was she would get upset at me if I went to someone else's lane if she was working. The only difference between me and the other guy at this point in my eyes was she liked me and not him. I didn't persue this young lady because she was uncomfortably younger than me.

and your last "for the record" comment, I have had the same thing happen to me as well. 

hope this clarifies what I was trying to get at.


----------



## ASoC (Dec 7, 2015)

I honestly don't know why you're trying. If someone who was supposed to be my friend did that to me at work I would lose my sh!t. I can't stand people who are either so stupid or so angry at the world that they walk around with a chip on their shoulder looking for any excuse to flip the fvck out without realizing that the only person being an asshole is them. 

This happened to me at work last night (sort of) and I can tell you right now that everybody who was there definitely likes me more than the guy who tried to start sh!t with me. I say your best bet is to continue being a nice guy, but stop speaking to people who are toxic like that. If I were you, I would apologize to your "friend" for whatever your part in the misunderstanding was (or just tell her that you don't know what you did wrong but you're sorry you upset her) and I would tell her that until she's ready to apologize and act like an adult, the two of you have nothing to say to each other.


----------



## ferret (Dec 7, 2015)

ASoC said:


> (or just tell her that you don't know what you did wrong but you're sorry you upset her)



Brief comment, but, based on the story thus far, I think saying "you don't know what you did wrong" isn't a great thing for him to do. It'll just feed her attitude and position. In her eyes, this statement confirms to her: Of course you don't know what you did wrong, you're just an entitled privileged rape culture male, and that's why you can't understand what you did wrong.

I'm not even sure I recommend saying you're sorry. Just dropping it is likely the best option... but... I don't know.

Anyways. I don't think admitting fault is good here, especially if you can't articulate what the fault was... And especially if you don't really believe you WERE at fault.


----------



## HoneyNut (Dec 7, 2015)

You can also send her a link to this thread!


----------



## russmuller (Dec 7, 2015)

Jeesan said:


> You can also send her a link to this thread!


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

Why do I not see that going well?


----------



## Explorer (Dec 7, 2015)

Okay, I just did a check to see if a few females within talking distance picked up the same cues in the OP that I did, and the cues jumped out at them too. 

It struck me, and those to whom I read the OP, that the poster definitely appeared to be playing the nice guy game, and that there were hidden expectations which were then revealed as a possible motive for the friendship. Being hurt by the rejection, instead of wanting to keep up the friendship which she had done nothing to damage (other than to reject a romantic advance), is an interesting idea, especially when coupled with the assertion on the part of others that the girl should be willing to continue the friendship as before... while ignoring that the OP did exactly what people are being hostile towards the girl for, and did it first. 

That just reeks of male entitlement from many. 

Condemnation of her being hurt by his reaction can't be coupled by denigration of her due to his being hurt by her reaction. If she's deserving of criticism on that point, and you skipped criticising the OP on the same basis, you seem to be demonstrating blindness towards that aspect. 

If that is true, would it be fair for observers to note a sense of entitlement in that unequal treatment of the same behavior?


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

I see your point but don't quite see it that way. I feel that as friends they should be respectful of each others wishes and feelings in both directions. 

If he doesn't feel comfortable hanging out with her while he gets over the way he feels I think that's okay. For her to yell at him over it seems less than friend like. 

If you're truly friends a short period of separation--in my eyes--should have no effect on that. It seems as though the lady in question is used to men trying to befriend her with ulterior motives and this time is the time she finally snapped.


----------



## ASoC (Dec 7, 2015)

I don't think it's unreasonable to want to spend some time apart to deal with feelings of rejection. If this girl was his friend she would respect his boundaries and let him heal. Same thing is true if the situation is reversed. If I were OP though, I wouldn't try to be friends with any girl I had romantic feelings towards. I once met a girl (who was just as interested in me as I was her, so it's different) and she (because she was afraid of getting hurt, I guess) asked if we could just be friends. I said no. I told her that it was all or nothing and anything else would just make me unhappy and that I refused to put myself in that situation. You know what happened? We ended up dating for a year and a half. Why? Because any reasonable human being with an ounce of compassion wouldn't want to force someone to be their friend if it causes them pain.


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 7, 2015)

Dude, she sounds appalling.

Third-wave, intersectional feminism is a truly horrible disease and it sounds like she's a carrier. She would bring horrible things into your life.

Run. Do not give her another opportunity to feast upon your emotions.


----------



## russmuller (Dec 7, 2015)

Explorer said:


> Being hurt by the rejection, instead of wanting to keep up the friendship which she had done nothing to damage (other than to reject a romantic advance), is an interesting idea, especially when coupled with the assertion on the part of others that the girl should be willing to continue the friendship as before.



Wanting to continue the friendship and being hurt by rejection are not mutually exclusive. It's not an either-or. If they were friends, why wouldn't the girl wish to continue the friendship? And if not, why not simply state that's the case rather than shout accusations in the workplace?


----------



## asher (Dec 7, 2015)

Explorer, being hurt is not a volitional act.


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 7, 2015)

There is so little debate on this topic.

She's an utter horror-show.


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Dec 7, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I see your point but don't quite see it that way. I feel that as friends they should be respectful of each others wishes and feelings in both directions.
> 
> If he doesn't feel comfortable hanging out with her while he gets over the way he feels I think that's okay. For her to yell at him over it seems less than friend like.
> 
> If you're truly friends a short period of separation--in my eyes--should have no effect on that. It seems as though the lady in question is used to men trying to befriend her with ulterior motives and this time is the time she finally snapped.



The strangest bit of it is that they did still hang out afterwards despite OP saying he was uncomfortable with it. Only after he brought up not being comfortable a second time did she flip her ...., unless I'm remembering wrong. 

Still, I think this thread has run its course. I think it is unfair to call her names since we really only have OP's side of the story. We've given our, generally consistent, advice with the knowledge we have, so perhaps all of us should just move on.


----------



## The Reverend (Dec 7, 2015)

Explorer said:


> Okay, I just did a check to see if a few females within talking distance picked up the same cues in the OP that I did, and the cues jumped out at them too.
> 
> It struck me, and those to whom I read the OP, that the poster definitely appeared to be playing the nice guy game, and that there were hidden expectations which were then revealed as a possible motive for the friendship. Being hurt by the rejection, instead of wanting to keep up the friendship which she had done nothing to damage (other than to reject a romantic advance), is an interesting idea, especially when coupled with the assertion on the part of others that the girl should be willing to continue the friendship as before... while ignoring that the OP did exactly what people are being hostile towards the girl for, and did it first.
> 
> ...



The nice guy game? I've never *once* in my life argued on behalf of MRA's, but you've been snookered. OP said he had been friends with her _first_, then developed feelings for her. Never said that it was all a ploy to gain access to her heart or ......, whatever comes first. So that's a straw man and a jab to his integrity.

I won't address what others may or may not have asserted in this thread. Why speak for them when they have voices? Confusing the issue.



asher said:


> Explorer, being hurt is not a volitional act.



This deflates your entitlement argument, Explorer. Firstly, explain to me how the girl was hurt by being rejected. Oh wait, she wasn't? Okay. Second, explain how a guy requesting space to deal with his emotions is in anyway creating undue expectations on her? Being rejected sucks. That's why it's not a celebrated feeling like happiness or satisfaction. That's why it makes people insecure and feel like they need to buy that pick-up artist book and act like alpha males. Notice how the OP didn't do any of those things? Notice how he put exactly _zero_ pressure on her to respond in kind to his feelings? Notice how he didn't say that since he was such a good guy, she should capitulate to his implications? Notice how he did nothing but express his desire to heal, then to regather and restart the friendship?

I defy you to come up with a concrete example from this guy's story that meets any standard definition of male privilege and entitlement. As a feminist myself, I have heard plenty of horror stories of guys meeting rejection with violence, rape, or emotional terrorizing and stalking. If this guy represents entitlement, then I am Donald F--king Trump and my hair is all natural.


----------



## Dana (Dec 7, 2015)

I can't believe the books you guys are writing in here. He got rejected. Move on.
Done.


----------



## The Reverend (Dec 7, 2015)

Dana said:


> I can't believe the books you guys are writing in here. He got rejected. Move on.
> Done.



Boyyyyyyyyyyy


----------



## Dana (Dec 7, 2015)

No need to complicate it. Simple problem simple solution.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

Guy has friend... Guy develops feelings for friend... Friend rejects him. Now .... is awkward... It's not like he got rejected by some random chick on the street he doesn't know. Sometimes .... gets awkward or altogether fvcked up between friends. The man wanted advice. We were nice enough to provide it. And I suppose in your own way, so were you.


----------



## Dana (Dec 7, 2015)

The whole "friends" crap is a bunch of nonsense.
He liked her, tried to start as friends, it didn't work. 
Move along....


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

Wow... You didn't read a damn thing... I now understand your beef with books. Exit stage right... This thread is over...


----------



## Dana (Dec 7, 2015)

Omg... Ok then buddy.


----------



## Explorer (Dec 7, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I see your point but don't quite see it that way. I feel that as friends they should be respectful of each others wishes and feelings in both directions.
> 
> If he doesn't feel comfortable hanging out with her while he gets over the way he feels I think that's okay. For her to yell at him over it seems less than friend like.
> 
> ...It seems as though the lady in question is used to men trying to befriend her with ulterior motives and this time is the time she finally snapped.



I have to point out that the OP was blaming radical feminism in part, which definitely seems less than friend-like. That ascription was another datapoint which made us suspect the nice-guy game, where someone is nice until that rejection, and then the nice guy stuff disappears and is replaced by the accusations of feminism/lesbianism/whatever. 

Again, I'm just pointing out that if one sees her as in the wrong, the OP did the same things, along with more. That's why I'm commenting on how people are willing to gloss over that particular aspect of the OP's behavior, which definitely struck a few of us as a violated sense of entitlement on the part of the OP and supporters. 

As soon as someone reaches for radical feminism, or for someone acting "uppity," or other similar terms, I am struck by how few people I know who level such accusations at others in real life. I'm okay with that.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 7, 2015)

Explorer said:


> I have to point out that the OP was blaming radical feminism in part, which definitely seems less than friend-like. That ascription was another datapoint which made us suspect the nice-guy game, where someone is nice until that rejection, and then the nice guy stuff disappears and is replaced by the accusations of feminism/lesbianism/whatever.
> 
> Again, I'm just pointing out that if one sees her as in the wrong, the OP did the same things, along with more. That's why I'm commenting on how people are willing to gloss over that particular aspect of the OP's behavior, which definitely struck a few of us as a violated sense of entitlement on the part of the OP and supporters.
> 
> As soon as someone reaches for radical feminism, or for someone acting "uppity," or other similar terms, I am struck by how few people I know who level such accusations at others in real life. I'm okay with that.


That's an incredibly fair point and I hadn't looked at it in that light.


----------



## The Reverend (Dec 7, 2015)

Explorer said:


> I have to point out that the OP was blaming radical feminism in part, which definitely seems less than friend-like. That ascription was another datapoint which made us suspect the nice-guy game, where someone is nice until that rejection, and then the nice guy stuff disappears and is replaced by the accusations of feminism/lesbianism/whatever.
> 
> Again, I'm just pointing out that if one sees her as in the wrong, the OP did the same things, along with more. That's why I'm commenting on how people are willing to gloss over that particular aspect of the OP's behavior, which definitely struck a few of us as a violated sense of entitlement on the part of the OP and supporters.
> 
> As soon as someone reaches for radical feminism, or for someone acting "uppity," or other similar terms, I am struck by how few people I know who level such accusations at others in real life. I'm okay with that.



What other description is there when you're confronted with someone yelling in the middle of the workplace that you need to check your privilege, and that you're not entitled to them? Seems not only like overkill in terms of feminist theory, but pretty f--king radical behavior, especially given how tame the interaction was. Kid didn't grope her, or cat-call across their job. Just expressed himself in a healthy, productive way. Have you even read the post? Or were you blinded by the thread title?

She wasn't acting uppity. She was using feminist catchphrases to mask whatever emotion she was feeling so vigorously.


----------



## HoneyNut (Dec 7, 2015)

I guess 'asking for space' can only be demanded by women. THAT was her point. And he slapped it right back at her by asking for exactly that (in reverse order though). 



OP got rejected, then asked for space in a self-respecting manner, and she couldn't handle it.


----------



## btbg (Dec 7, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Sorry I missed this and your previous post.
> 
> First off, if you get turned down, that should be it. You took a girl who shot you down to a game and she was disinterested. Why should I feel bad for you? She made it clear she had no interest, you kept persuing, and she remained disinterested. It was a waste of your time long before you seem to think. After she turned you down it was a waste of time persuing her romantically.
> 
> ...



Stop using "pursue" in the obsolete and I will agree with everything you said.


----------



## TheHandOfStone (Dec 7, 2015)

It's worth mentioning that "radical feminism" denotes a specific perspective within the broader purview of feminist thought, and so it probably shouldn't be used the way "radical" is more generally. Plus, the latter comes dangerously close to well-poisoning anyway and so should be discouraged on those grounds. However, as you can see from rad-fem's tenets, the types of feminism prevalent in popular culture are mostly descended from it. So I guess it _kind of_ works out anyway despite the term's lack of precision. Still, concerns about "nice guys" are mainstream enough that it's a distinction almost not worth making.


----------



## Bekanor (Dec 8, 2015)

Welcome to the modern world. Everyone hates everyone for the dumbest reasons ever imagined and nobody is prepared to entertain rational thought on anything for long before conversations break down into explosive outbursts and edge-case examples being thrust forward to justify ridiculous perspectives. 

Not all feminists are man-hating psychos who use "check your privilege" as a war cry. 

Not all men's rights guys are neckbeard socio-emotional maladjusts who blame all women for their rejection issues. 

The middle ground between these two extremes is seldom heard amidst the din of the outliers shrieking buzz words at each other, to say nothing of the pervasive attempts of each side to bait reasonable people into joining the vitriol on either side with insidiously provocative rhetoric. The puppet master behind both is, as always, the media. Nothing gets page hits like a frenzied mob with a social agenda. If you must give news and current affairs media your attention, take it all with a grain of salt, the onus on facts in the press was replaced by entertainment and sensationalism many decades ago. This goes across the board, not just these particular issues.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 8, 2015)

Funny I saw this thread today... This just happened to me in reverse. A female friend told me she needed to distance herself from me because she's beginning to develop feelings for me. Not joking. 

So... I yell at her right?


----------



## blacai (Dec 8, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Funny I saw this thread today... This just happened to me in reverse. A female friend told me she needed to distance herself from me because she's beginning to develop feelings for me. Not joking.
> 
> So... I yell at her right?



Does she djent?


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 8, 2015)

Explorer said:


> I have to point out that the OP was blaming radical feminism in part, which definitely seems less than friend-like. That ascription was another datapoint which made us suspect the nice-guy game, where someone is nice until that rejection, and then the nice guy stuff disappears and is replaced by the accusations of feminism/lesbianism/whatever.
> 
> Again, I'm just pointing out that if one sees her as in the wrong, the OP did the same things, along with more. That's why I'm commenting on how people are willing to gloss over that particular aspect of the OP's behavior, which definitely struck a few of us as a violated sense of entitlement on the part of the OP and supporters.
> 
> As soon as someone reaches for radical feminism, or for someone acting "uppity," or other similar terms, I am struck by how few people I know who level such accusations at others in real life. I'm okay with that.



I wouldn't blame him. Third wave, intersectional feminism is the most grotesque, repugnant hate wave from the most appalling, moral train-wreck type of individuals.


----------



## Explorer (Dec 8, 2015)

P-Ride said:


> I wouldn't blame him. Third wave, intersectional feminism is the most grotesque, repugnant hate wave from the most appalling, moral train-wreck type of individuals.



In that case, since he's doing the same thing, you're labeling the OP as a most appalling, moral train-wreck of an individual.

And given that you clearly feel that the OP is in the rig for being that sort of person... that implies you share those morals.

Okay then!



Konfyouzd said:


> Funny I saw this thread today... This just happened to me in reverse. A female friend told me she needed to distance herself from me because she's beginning to develop feelings for me. Not joking.
> 
> So... I yell at her right?



There's only one SS.org-approved solution.


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 8, 2015)

Explorer said:


> In that case, since he's doing the same thing, you're labeling the OP as a most appalling, moral train-wreck of an individual.
> 
> And given that you clearly feel that the OP is in the rig for being that sort of person... that implies you share those morals.



Are you one of those weird people that says, 'People only dislike character traits in others, that they dislike in themselves?'


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 8, 2015)

blacai said:


> Does she djent?



She plays guitar... 

No djent, though...


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 8, 2015)

P-Ride said:


> Are you one of those weird people that says, 'People only dislike character traits in others, that they dislike in themselves?'



Often that *does* tend to be the case, though. 

"Takes one to know one..." is more true than some would like to admit. 

I think it's just been overused and has begun to lose it's meaning.


----------



## canuck brian (Dec 8, 2015)

The girl is an asshole and turned you being hurt about being rejected into something she could play the victim about. Let her play the victim and be alone for a long time until some idiot can put up with her crap.

Find a curb and pitch this person to it.


----------



## Explorer (Dec 8, 2015)

P-Ride said:


> Are you one of those weird people that says, 'People only dislike character traits in others, that they dislike in themselves?'



No. In fact, I wrote about what was being condemned in this girl's reaction, yet embraced by the OP's supporters, in a few posts.

That makes me comfortable in stating that you obviously were commenting without bothering to read up. 

Cheers!


----------



## tacotiklah (Dec 8, 2015)

canuck brian said:


> The girl is an asshole and turned you being hurt about being rejected into something she could play the victim about. Let her play the victim and be alone for a long time until some idiot can put up with her crap.
> 
> Find a curb and pitch this person to it.



+1 

There's a big difference between guys feeling entitled to a date with a girl and a guy just feeling a bit bummed due to rejection. The latter is experienced by everyone and it's natural to want a bit of time to get over it. That's a reasonable request as far as I'm concerned. 
It sounds like this girl is drinking the tumblrina kool aid and is looking for reasons to play a victim. I can't speak for all women, but I know that I get bent out of shape by these "always gotta be a victim" girls that need to just grow the f_u_ck up.


----------



## ncfiala (Dec 8, 2015)

I honestly can't fathom how so many seem to support this girl's (I'm going to call her a girl because she certainly isn't acting like a woman) actions. Reading some of these posts makes me throw up a bit. The dude was friends with this girl, developed feelings for her later, let her know about his feelings, found out she didn't reciprocate those feelings, asked for some space to recover, and then she goes crazy for no reason whatsoever. She isn't your friend. She was never your friend. You should never have contact with her again. She honestly sounds unstable if not psychotic.


----------



## chaneisa (Dec 8, 2015)

^ agreed. I just went through most of this thread again, as I've been following it since it was posted, without saying anything, and I have no clue where people are seeing the OP as in the wrong. Honestly, if I'm missing something, point it out to me, but it sounds like she's got problems.


----------



## tedtan (Dec 8, 2015)

Explorer said:


> No. In fact, I wrote about what was being condemned in this girl's reaction, yet embraced by the OP's supporters, in a few posts.



But failed to mention that

A) The girl in question 1) called the OP an "entitled asshole" for the way he "treated her" when asking for time and space to get over his feelings for her, 2) yelled at him to "check his privilege" and to "delete her from [his] contacts" while a) at work in front of their coworkers, and b) after having taken a course in feminism, apparently projecting intentions onto the OP that were not present; and

B) The OP 1) only mentioned feminism after the above took place, and 2) did so anonymously online rather than in front of their coworkers.

Based on that, I'm not sure people are embracing quite the same thing from the OP that they reject from the girl in the OP. Based on the information that we have at this point, the circumstances are different enough that agreeing with one while rejecting the other is not hypocritical in this case.

Having said that, there are usually three sides to every story (yours, mine and the truth, to quote Nuno), so I'm not sure we have enough information here to really take either side at this point; we need more information to put things into proper perspective first.


----------



## Chokey Chicken (Dec 8, 2015)

ncfiala said:


> I honestly can't fathom how so many seem to support this girl's (I'm going to call her a girl because she certainly isn't acting like a woman) actions. Reading some of these posts makes me throw up a bit. The dude was friends with this girl, developed feelings for her later, let her know about his feelings, found out she didn't reciprocate those feelings, asked for some space to recover, and then she goes crazy for no reason whatsoever. She isn't your friend. She was never your friend. You should never have contact with her again. She honestly sounds unstable if not psychotic.



Not sure what thread you were reading, but everyone here (save for one or two people) has pretty much sided with OP, even if they (like me) don't agree with the weird anti-feminism .... that's popped up.

I'll have to go back and read to see how Explorer has drawn the conclusions that they have, as given his description I don't feel like OP is doing to the girl like the girl did to him by any stretch.

I'd also like to point out again that it imperative that everyone acknowledge having one persons side of the story is never 100% accurate. We don't know the exact words, body language, tone, etc. that made up this whole ordeal... Just what OP has said, and people as a whole are infamous for conveniently leaving stuff out. 

I'll say this... I've never known anyone to be levelheaded during a long period of friendship just to one day flip their .... and go nuts. It sounds like there's quite a bit more that OP isn't sharing, which is fine. OP gave us what information they were comfortable sharing, asked for advice on that info, and we've given it. I really don't see why this thread needs to continue on so I'm just gonna make my exit here.


----------



## Edika (Dec 8, 2015)

I hope that this thread doesn't turn out to be a serious version of that (´&#65381;&#969;&#65381;`) reddit thread. I don't know I'm just getting this vibe.
Sorry to the OP if I'm wrong but I think I'll agree (once more) with Chockey Chicken.


----------



## Demiurge (Dec 8, 2015)

ncfiala said:


> I honestly can't fathom how so many seem to support this girl's (I'm going to call her a girl because she certainly isn't acting like a woman) actions. Reading some of these posts makes me throw up a bit. The dude was friends with this girl, developed feelings for her later, let her know about his feelings, found out she didn't reciprocate those feelings, asked for some space to recover, and then she goes crazy for no reason whatsoever. She isn't your friend. She was never your friend. You should never have contact with her again. She honestly sounds unstable if not psychotic.



I think that many can agree that on her side is an instance of _"baby's first attempt to try out discourse seen online in real life"_ (I think this dovetails with the #thisisacausenow thread in PC&E). While the manner of her reaction- if we have both sides of the story right- seems unhinged, the crowing about being the victim of misandry lol is equally loony when there are some actual, grown-up lessons to be learned.


----------



## Promit (Dec 8, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> I'd also like to point out again that it imperative that everyone acknowledge having one persons side of the story is never 100% accurate. We don't know the exact words, body language, tone, etc. that made up this whole ordeal... Just what OP has said, and people as a whole are infamous for conveniently leaving stuff out.
> 
> I'll say this... I've never known anyone to be levelheaded during a long period of friendship just to one day flip their .... and go nuts. It sounds like there's quite a bit more that OP isn't sharing, which is fine.


Repeated for emphasis. OP's story doesn't totally add up and some of us are speculating as to where things may have gone wrong. Not just blindly jumping to "OMG what a bitch", as some of you are. Obviously this is all very much conjecture and second guessing. None of us really know what happened - including OP.


----------



## vilk (Dec 8, 2015)

nvm


----------



## asher (Dec 8, 2015)

Edika said:


> I hope that this thread doesn't turn out to be a serious version of that (´&#65381;&#969;&#65381;`) reddit thread. I don't know I'm just getting this vibe.
> Sorry to the OP if I'm wrong but I think I'll agree (once more) with Chockey Chicken.



600 posts later...



> (´&#65381;&#969;&#65381;`)


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 9, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Often that *does* tend to be the case, though.
> 
> "Takes one to know one..." is more true than some would like to admit.
> 
> I think it's just been overused and has begun to lose it's meaning.



Good point. I dislike anyone who commits rape, murder or grand theft auto, because I tend to commit rape, murder and grand theft auto.


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 9, 2015)

Explorer said:


> No. In fact, I wrote about what was being condemned in this girl's reaction, yet embraced by the OP's supporters, in a few posts.
> 
> That makes me comfortable in stating that you obviously were commenting without bothering to read up.
> 
> Cheers!



I don't think you have much experience of, or certainly wisdom in terms of relationships.

I think you know this too, which is why you had to ask other women (women very often reply in regards to questions about relationships far more idealistically and theoretically than the reality in which they behave).

The OP sounds like he's fairly young and well-meaning; in time his hearten will harden slightly and he'll not let himself get too into a girl prematurely, to be potentially upset.

As others have suggested, the kind of hysterical reaction this girl has demonstrated (usually suggested to them by miserable, 40 year old third-wave feminists who are lonely and bitter) that you've compounded, is precisely what drives young men to alpha-male pickup artists, negging and other ultra-masculine, more effective yet unpleasant behaviours.

And white-knighting (trying to stand up for unreasonable girls) is the icing on the cake.

There is a correct balance between submissive, dependent and overly emotional (as most young guys are) and ultra-masculine pickup artist types.

The latter camp WILL get laid more, but will hurt others in the process and struggle to form meaningful relationships.

Often, someone goes from the former to the latter, before discovering how to be confident, calm, very happy in their own skin and generally liked by most people and dependent on no-one else for their happiness; having a generally positive effect on others around them.


----------



## Explorer (Dec 9, 2015)

P-Ride said:


> I don't think you have much experience of, or certainly wisdom in terms of relationships.



That could well be, relative to your own experience and wisdom. 

I've proposed unpopular opinions in topics before, and I'm okay with people rejecting my thoughts. I put them out as an alternative, but no one is required to agree with me. 

Some of the other topics have been about how an SS.org member didn't think tattoos should affect him the workplace (with me just noting that they do), about how a member's parents were unreasonable (with me noting what their perspective might have been), and so on. 

I generally try to support my opinions by observations and evidence supplied by those telling the stories, supplemented by my experience. 

Cheers!


----------



## jwade (Dec 9, 2015)

Regardless of the varying opinions floating around, I'd like to say that I'm pleasantly surprised by the thoughtfulness and clarity exhibited by many of you in your responses. 

OT, I know. Just felt like it was worth saying.


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 9, 2015)

Explorer said:


> That could well be, relative to your own experience and wisdom.
> 
> I've proposed unpopular opinions in topics before, and I'm okay with people rejecting my thoughts. I put them out as an alternative, but no one is required to agree with me.
> 
> ...



That's fair enough (I'd agree on the tattoos).

I very much enjoy debate and contrasting opinions.

I feel strongly though, that young men have an incredibly hard time negotiating the path to becoming a strong, confident and emotionally secure man. Sadly, the most likely form of death for young men is suicide.

The contrasting demands of what women seem to want and what their male peers demand are very challenging to negotiate.

The language used by the girl described, is endemic of a form of feminism which is incredibly destructive, angry and malicious. Hence I will challenge it wherever I encounter it.

It so happens I'm starting a project relating to emotional well-being for young men, so this is a key interest of mine and something I feel strongly about.


----------



## Explorer (Dec 9, 2015)

At some point in a particular job, I was visiting one of the retail locations when I had a conversation with one of the newer employees. He wanted to talk to me, and stated that the store was rife with favoritism for certain people whom the manager liked, in terms of scheduling (actually based on seniority) and other factors. 

I told his supervisor that I needed the new guy for something, and then that I wanted to walk the store with him. He was to make a list of the favorites when we ran across them. I'd be making a different list with only one criteria. 

When we got back to where we started, I told him that my list was made up of those who were working hard when we ran across them, even doing cleaning if there was nothing obvious which needed to be done. Then I handed him my list, and asked him to compare it to his. 

And that led to him changing his work habits, because he was confronted with the fact that my observations about being useful corresponded to his thoughts about someone just being handed recognition. 

I handed him a different perspective, and he was bright enough to apply it to his thinking. He was able to make a better informed decision. 

----

In this case, I actually listed how I thought the OP's behavior could have been perceived by his female friend. I even pointwd out the problem with complaining about someone applying labels while one has a huge label in the subject line. 

And, if the OP wishes, the OP could decide that there might be some things which could be done differently *by the OP*. Since the OP is the only one whose behavior the OP can truly affect, that is always a good place to start when wanting to avoid having the same situation in the future. 

That's why I'm wondering what opportunities your own responses give the OP in terms of examining those actions which were his alone. 

You blame the girl, and feminism. That's convenient, and stops the dialogue right there. 

My suspicion is that I might actually have a bit more experience than you in both HR matters *and* in successful long-term relationships. Given that I have pointed out your shutting down paths of growth for the OP, rather than taking a wider view, is it possible I have a wider perspective than you, and possibly more experience?


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 9, 2015)

MOD EDIT:

Enjoy a week off for both being a jerk and another for having to play filter circumvention games to get your point across.

How's that for making a quick decision based on behavior, eh?


----------



## toiletstand (Dec 9, 2015)

Explorer said:


> Okay, I just did a check to see if a few females within talking distance picked up the same cues in the OP that I did, and the cues jumped out at them too.
> 
> It struck me, and those to whom I read the OP, that the poster definitely appeared to be playing the nice guy game, and that there were hidden expectations which were then revealed as a possible motive for the friendship. Being hurt by the rejection, instead of wanting to keep up the friendship which she had done nothing to damage (other than to reject a romantic advance), is an interesting idea, especially when coupled with the assertion on the part of others that the girl should be willing to continue the friendship as before... while ignoring that the OP did exactly what people are being hostile towards the girl for, and did it first.
> 
> ...


 glad i read the thread because i came here to post something like this. although not as well put haha


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 9, 2015)

Moral relativism is a uniquely repugnant invention.


----------



## Explorer (Dec 9, 2015)

P-Ride said:


> Oh, you work in HR. It all makes sense now. You probably attend diversity workshops too and think 'all opinions are valid and equal', amongst other forms of disastrous moral relativism.
> 
> I work in corporate sales. My job is to make intelligent decisions quickly and gain influence. I boycott diversity workshops. Instead, I make very quick, consistently accurate decisions about people and am highly trained in performance psychology, behavioural psychology and body language.
> 
> ...



You are mistaken. I am not an HR employee, and wasn't, but in that case was working as assistant to the CEO of a large company with millions in sales and multiple retail locations.

What I did find noteworthy is that you not only then went on to claim that my perspective was due to diversity workshops, which I've never attended, but also glossed over my observation that you offered a narrative of victimhood for the OP which removes all responsibility *and* opportunity for agency for the OP. 

Again, that speaks of a lack of perspective and experience. At the very minimum, it would indicate a horrible approach towards mentoring valuable employees, assuming one wanted to be a good and effective leader in the workplace.

I like that rather than engage in that, you rather reached for the "hitler with tits" insult. That seems more in line with workplaces with management which feels free to talk about "the black" or "the gays," or whatever other group needs to be vilified.

Carry on, because you seem intent on revealing even more about your real perspective.


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 10, 2015)

Explorer said:


> You are mistaken. I am not an HR employee, and wasn't, but in that case was working as assistant to the CEO of a large company with millions in sales and multiple retail locations.
> 
> What I did find noteworthy is that you not only then went on to claim that my perspective was due to diversity workshops, which I've never attended, but also glossed over my observation that you offered a narrative of victimhood for the OP which removes all responsibility *and* opportunity for agency for the OP.
> 
> ...



You're a fluffer?

No, you're continuing to peddle the morally relativistic notion that, 'there is always two sides to a story!'

It's the same kind of mentality that leads people to trying to 'empathize' with the Islamic State, thinking, 'it must be six of one, half a dozen of the other!' rather than accepting that in some situations, someone is clearly being an asshole and must be dealt with, or (as in this case) dismissed.

I've already cited that I think the OP sounds slightly young, but in time - and in response to situations like this - his heart will toughen.

But understanding that he did nothing wrong and did not deserve to be treated that way, is important for his growth.

The objective of always assuming there must be two sides and each person must have contributed to fight/disagreement is one of the most moronic, wretched and damaging approaches.

I'm an international relations graduate and can cite this approach as being moronic, wretched and damaging in analysis of foreign affairs.

Equally, in the work I've done mentoring and training others in achieving sales goals, this would be a terrible approach.

The behaviours you describe lack any semblance of decisiveness, self-confidence, assertiveness or grit, which are the foundations of leadership.

Leadership requires the ability to make clear, firm decisions and act upon them; not stand around flapping your hands, trying not to offend anyone.

It requires you to decisively take the bull by the horns and deal with someone who is being an asshole.

The behaviour and values you are demonstrating will not win you respect amongst your peers, let alone a wider team of subordinates; they are classic beta-male behaviours.

The fact you resort to suggesting I must be racist for using a satirical pejorative tells me you are a highly submissive male, who would avoid confrontation in any real life scenario - which explains your hand-flapping, morally relativistic approach to attempting to resolve conflict.

All very effeminate.


----------



## ferret (Dec 10, 2015)

I'm somewhat ...amused?... that this argument has devolved to one male poster attacking another male poster primarily by suggesting he's a girly man-woman and not man enough. :/


----------



## P-Ride (Dec 10, 2015)

ferret said:


> I'm somewhat ...amused?... that this argument has devolved to one male poster attacking another male poster primarily by suggesting he's a girly man-woman and not man enough. :/



Yeah, it's all fun and games really. We're going to meet up and mud-wrestle.


----------



## naw38 (Dec 10, 2015)

ferret said:


> I'm somewhat ...amused?... that this argument has devolved to one male poster attacking another male poster primarily by suggesting he's a girly man-woman and not man enough. :/



I haven't read through the whole thread but I kind of get the feeling that that is exactly what was destined to happen.


----------



## asher (Dec 10, 2015)

I wasn't aware that this dude was engaging in high-stages international diplomatic relations with this girl, which he needed to win by Leading with Leadership(tm).


----------



## Explorer (Dec 10, 2015)

I'm pretty amused by P-Ride doing exactly what i noted earlier, getting upset at the girl for doing what what P-Ride himself thinks is acceptable in terms of tossing out accusations.

However, I think that P-Ride just didn't realize how much he was revealing of his own character in the process.

Here's what's not amusing to me:

Anyone here ever get so mad at a coworker, a restaurant employee, whoever, and just casually toss out an epithet like "you stupid nigg*r!" at the person?

No, me neither. You don't just toss that kind of thing out, because it isn't even part of your baseline thinking.

But P-Ride *does* have that kind of thinking as his baseline, so feminism is equivalent to the regime which tattoed humans like cattlle before killing them in ovens. Those women deserve that. 

On the plus side, he is also pointing out that he is just as whiney and self entitled as he is claiming this girl is by his doing so, and that is funny.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 10, 2015)




----------



## chaneisa (Dec 10, 2015)

I bet OP didn't expect this sort of argument to unfold when he posted this thread simply asking for advice on what to do.


----------



## asher (Dec 10, 2015)

chaneisa said:


> I bet OP didn't expect this sort of argument to unfold when he posted this thread simply asking for advice on what to do.



He doesn't know us well enough if true


----------



## chaneisa (Dec 10, 2015)

asher said:


> He doesn't know us well enough if true



He probably stopped reading this thread awhile ago  at least we get some amusement out of it, right?


----------



## TheHandOfStone (Dec 10, 2015)

This thread is way past due for a


----------



## eaeolian (Dec 10, 2015)

Eh, I like to watch you guys get in each others' faces sometimes.

That said, Mr. Moral Relativism is currently enjoying a two week vacation. Explorer, watch the "getting around the filter by replacing one letter" stuff, though - Alex imposed it for a reason.


----------



## Explorer (Dec 10, 2015)

eaeolian said:


> Eh, I like to watch you guys get in each others' faces sometimes.
> 
> That said, Mr. Moral Relativism is currently enjoying a two week vacation. Explorer, watch the "getting around the filter by replacing one letter" stuff, though - Alex imposed it for a reason.



Thanks for the heads up on that. I've been doing that kind of replacement for a while, thinking it was just something in the software instead of a deliberate choice.

Of course, when one must rely on profanity to make a point, that could be taken as a sign of a paucity of language, so it's a chance for me to step up. Thanks!


----------



## Fraz666 (Dec 11, 2015)

pfizer said:


> This sucks. I don't know if I should play me some John Denver love songs or the entirety of Pantera's discography.


this is why heavy metal exists.
less people, more watts


----------



## pfizer (Dec 13, 2015)

Man, this thread really went wild while I was away  

That said, I really do appreciate the support and advice you guys and gals have given me. It's been tough couple of weeks but there's some light at the end of the tunnel.

Update: We actually talked like normal human beings and we actually both apologized to each other. She's stopped attending the women's studies class not because the class itself was bad, but the people she had been hanging out with in the class were toxic. She actually owned up, saying she was wrong to treat me like that and that I did have a right to be a little bummed at being rejected. I tried apologizing to her but she actually said that I had nothing to be sorry for.

Right now, things are still a little awkward but I think I'll get through this. Thanks again people.


----------



## Promit (Dec 13, 2015)

pfizer said:


> Man, this thread really went wild while I was away
> 
> That said, I really do appreciate the support and advice you guys and gals have given me. It's been tough couple of weeks but there's some light at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> ...


Kudos to both of you for acting like adults


----------



## The Reverend (Dec 13, 2015)

inb4 Explorer exposes OP's nice guy game success.

I'm glad she figured out where she went wrong. There can sometimes be that weird dynamic between men and women in friendships where an attraction just sort of blossoms, and when it's not reciprocated, it can be tough. It seems that both of you recognize each other's value as friends, and that's really important and a great quality to have. I prefer friendships over relationships anyway, as they tend to last longer and have less hurtful drama.


----------



## pfizer (Dec 14, 2015)

The Reverend said:


> inb4 Explorer exposes OP's nice guy game success.
> 
> I'm glad she figured out where she went wrong. There can sometimes be that weird dynamic between men and women in friendships where an attraction just sort of blossoms, and when it's not reciprocated, it can be tough. It seems that both of you recognize each other's value as friends, and that's really important and a great quality to have. I prefer friendships over relationships anyway, as they tend to last longer and have less hurtful drama.



That's pretty much where I am right now. 

About my "nice guy game", I'm actually seen as a bit cold and aloof where I work; I have the male version of resting bitch face it seems and liking heavy metal kinda exacerbates that reputation  That's why the incident hurt so much because she was pretty much the only close friend I had. I never had any intention of developing feelings for her and when I did, I held back for so long precisely because I asked myself if I _was_ taking advantage of my friendship with her. That's another reason why it hurt, because the worst possible outcome actually came true and I blamed myself because I believed what she was saying to an extent.

On a side note, I've actually _seen_ several co-workers and musicians do the "nice guy" routine which makes my skin crawl a bit. I mean, I know they ARE nice enough, but they lay it on a little thick sometimes and the girl will inevitably catch a whiff of the B.S. Sometimes they don't and they end up as a notch on the supposed "nice guy's" bedpost.


----------

