# The dont's of live performance



## 7 Dying Trees

We've all seen enough bands to comment, so what are in your opinions the things that kill a band off at a live enviroment? Basically, a list of things which are just absolute no's


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## eaeolian

Carry your 1000 pedals in their own separate boxes and then plug them up for your 1/2 set opening for three bands.


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## NegaTiveXero

Standing there looking at the fretboard the WHOLE show.

Like wise, not getting into the music at all, the audience sometimes needs to see energy to get moving.

Singers/guitarists turning away from the crowd for no reason. Especially during solos.


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## 7 Dying Trees

Tuning instruments with the sound on. Even worse is two people tuning to each other with the sound on. This is summarised by:

Bands not having a tuning pedal.


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## Lozek

One of my pet hates on smaller shows is guitarists/singers that insist on getting down on the floor with the crowd. It always comes off as a bit desperate, if your music/stageshow isn't connecting with them then you need to re-think things.

Don't make personal jokes with your mates in the crowd, there's other people in the audience as well.

If there's technical issues, for gods sake someone else in the band cover it. An impromptu solo/jam/joke/dance routine is all it takes. (and don't call your audience names to cover it  )


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## Nick

singers with their mic free hand in their pocket. might sound daft but it shows disinterest


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## nitelightboy

Band members getting totally obliterated prior to hitting the stage. Drugs and alcohol in moderation may help you get up there, but go too far and you're gonna play like crap (even though you hear yourself as being the next guitar god).


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## halsinden

being mikael akerfeldt.

stunning music, stellar vocals, drab to watch.

H


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## nitelightboy

And let's not forget abouta band that just stands there. FRIGGIN' DO SOMETHING!!! Hear that Dream THeater?


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## halsinden

Lozek said:


> One of my pet hates on smaller shows is guitarists/singers that insist on getting down on the floor with the crowd.



um...

shit.

H


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## Makelele

halsinden said:


> being mikael akerfeldt.
> 
> stunning music, stellar vocals, drab to watch.
> 
> H



Bullshit.

Opeth rules live. In every way.


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## halsinden

spitting.

H



Makelele said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Opeth rules live. In every way.



like i say man; i love their music and almost everything about them, i was engaged, i just didnt enjoy watching them.

this was overall several sittings a few years ago, mind. he may have pulled something out the bag since then, but being glued to a mic stand just doesnt do it for me.

H

frontmen who apologise / explain / are overwhelmingly negative.

&#8220;i know we&#8217;re shit, but, my postman kicked me this morning and that&#8217;s why i didn&#8217;t hit that note in&#8230;&#8221;

just get on with it, nobody&#8217;s interested in reasons or excuses for pulling punches.

H


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## Lozek

While we're on that one, *DON'T* forget to entertain your audience. Unless you're Dream Theater/Steve Vai etc, your audience is not entirely made up of musicians and they really don't care if you're playing in a 'Mixolydian half gypsy nunchuck' scale. Entertain them for the sake of all that is carbon based.


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## Lozek

Oooooh ooooh oooooh, another one. Don't, please please don't, dedicate the next song to your girlfriend. No-one else sees the beauty in your saggy, mole ridden walrus of an attempt at human likeness. Just don't. really.


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## halsinden

Lozek said:


> Oooooh ooooh oooooh, another one. Don't, please please don't, dedicate the next song to your girlfriend. No-one else sees the beauty in your saggy, mole ridden walrus of an attempt at human likeness. Just don't. really.



or perhaps as a second to that - overly long diatribes between nearly each & every song, a la phil anselmo / axl rose.

and perhaps then once actually off the stage (and sometimes on) - laypeople such as bono genuinely postulating on politics as if hes in a position to be revered. its an abuse of profile, IMO.

H


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## Lozek

halsinden said:


> or perhaps as a second to that - overly long diatribes between nearly each & every song, a la phil anselmo / axl rose.
> 
> H



And also conversely, long silences/technical fiddling between songs.


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## halsinden

Lozek said:


> technical fiddling between songs.




necrophagist on a violin? how would that be a good filler? youre weird.

H


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## Lozek

halsinden said:


> necrophagist on a violin? how would that be a good filler? youre weird.
> 
> H



'If by technical, I mean........' etc etc


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## Groff

You know what I hate?
Singers who get all pissed off at people who aren't standing right up front in their face. Now it's one thing to say "I wanna see some movement!" or "Hey, lets all get up and mosh!" But when they go up and be a complete ASSHOLE about it, it's just fucking stupid. For example: "Hey!! You stupid mother fuckers at the bar sitting down! Get your drunk lazy asses up here! I wanna see you mother fuckers moving right now!!" *Crowd simultaneously thinks this guy is an asshole and stops paying attention* "Hey! I'm talking to you! Get the fuck up!"

...Nothing makes me want to NOT pay attention more.


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## Nick

halsinden said:


> being mikael akerfeldt.
> 
> stunning music, stellar vocals, drab to watch.
> 
> H



when i saw opeth he was moving around the stage and having fun.

Some guys just arent going to go crazy on stage they just arent like that.


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## Lozek

TheMissing said:


> You know what I hate?
> Singers who get all pissed off at people who aren't standing right up front in their face.



Yep, totally. And people who refuse to accept the reality of their situation. ie 

'I wanna see a circle pit, NOW'
'Er dude, there's three people in here, and one of them is on crutches'

or

'Thank you London, you've been amazing'
*old man & sole audience member sitting at the bar coughs & shuffles uncomfortably*


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## TomAwesome

Don't take half of your allotted set time to set your gear up and goof off only to play over your time and into most of the next band's set. Bands do that to us and each other all the time here. We have been forced to play two-song sets before because of it.

If you are a vocalist, don't mumble when you talk, insult the crowd for no reason, pick fights with people, argue with the owner of the venue when they tell you to stop writing random crap on the dry erase board, get drunk before a set, do other stuff to mess up your voice before a show, be irresponsible in ways that make it so you're sick at 2 or 3 out of 5 shows, waste all kinds of time trying to get two mics set up for yourself and trying to fix your piece of crap effects processor while the rest of the band is already set up and waiting for you, later during that same set apologize/complain about the rest of the band taking so long to set up when you're the one everyone was waiting for, dip your head in house paint and call it a Halloween costume, constantly hit your head on the guitar headstocks because you're not paying attention... That's stuff from our last two vocalists, and that's just the on stage stuff, or at least what I can remember of it off hand.


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## Leon

don't try to be "all that." if you are, i'll see it from where i'm standing.


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## ohio_eric

Do not under any circumstances tell me how great you are. I'll make my own decision thanks. 

Do not copy other bands stage moves unless are a tribute band. Under all other circumstances it looks lame. 

Do not try and be all "meaningful". I hate it when bands play their one big epic ballad and the singer feels obligated to tell me that everyone wants to be loved or feels lonely or whatever. If your music is based on a message then I will pick up on it. No need to go all Dr. Phil on my ass.


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## Popsyche

Control your fucking stage volume! 

You are not playing in Wembley. The club holds 23 people including that hot chick behind the bar, your band and the clubowner/scumbag. No need for you to crank up to get your "tone". Learn to generate your tone at a volume commensurate with your current situation and surroundings.


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## Leon

when i saw King's X, at one point in the night, Doug said that we were all beautiful. i felt dirty


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## eaeolian

TomAwesome said:


> Don't take half of your allotted set time to set your gear up and goof off only to play over your time and into most of the next band's set. Bands do that to us and each other all the time here. We have been forced to play two-song sets before because of it.



I've been there. I'm practically the stage manager at Jaxx when we play there because I *will not* let this happen to us. Somebody's got to teach the kids how it works...


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## Leon

stage volume is a biggie. it's also nice to be able to hear your bass player from the other side of the stage when he yells, "HEY LEON, WHAT KEY IS THIS IN AGAIN?"


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## eaeolian

Popsyche said:


> Control your fucking stage volume!
> 
> You are not playing in Wembley. The club holds 23 people including that hot chick behind the bar, your band and the clubowner/scumbag. No need for you to crank up to get your "tone". Learn to generate your tone at a volume commensurate with your current situation and surroundings.



I'm tempted to sticky this post.


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## Chris

Smiling like a madman the whole time.  

For reference, see the bald guy in Dimmu.


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## 7 Dying Trees

eaeolian said:


> I'm tempted to sticky this post.


It's making for an entertaining read


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## The Dark Wolf

TheMissing said:


> You know what I hate?
> Singers who get all pissed off at people who aren't standing right up front in their face. Now it's one thing to say "I wanna see some movement!" or "Hey, lets all get up and mosh!" But when they go up and be a complete ASSHOLE about it, it's just fucking stupid. For example: "Hey!! You stupid mother fuckers at the bar sitting down! Get your drunk lazy asses up here! I wanna see you mother fuckers moving right now!!" *Crowd simultaneously thinks this guy is an asshole and stops paying attention* "Hey! I'm talking to you! Get the fuck up!"
> 
> ...Nothing makes me want to NOT pay attention more.



Dude. 

I saw a band a few weeks back where the singer says some dumb bullshit to the crowd like, "You guys fucking suck. You're the weakest crowd we've ever had. Whatever."

I got right up and fucking left.


NEVER insult the crowd, fucking douchebag. Maybe if your band didn't suck balls, we might get into you.


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## Leon

^ 

if they don't feel like being the "entertainers" instead of "the entertained" then they ought to get the fuck back in their garage.


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## Groff

The Dark Wolf said:


> Dude.
> 
> I saw a band a few weeks back where the singer says some dumb bullshit to the crowd like, "You guys fucking suck. You're the weakest crowd we've ever had. Whatever."
> 
> I got right up and fucking left.
> 
> 
> NEVER insult the crowd, fucking douchebag. Maybe if your band didn't suck balls, we might get into you.



I like it more when people are paying attention, personally.

We don't play music for people to mosh to, we make music for people to listen to.

It's called music, we like to make it musical.


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## 7 Dying Trees

Don't complain about monitors, stage sound or that your set is being ruined by not being able to hear stuff properly. Monitors are always shit. They always sound rubbish and then more you rely on them the more lost you'lll get when they really screw up. So don't complain about them when setting up, just get on with the job, don't whinge, use what you're given and just play.


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## 7 Dying Trees

Also, don't show up to the gig, ask to use someone elses gear, change their settings and then complain it sounds shit.


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## Stitch

Ever. 

Also, don't turn up 40 minutes late for your soundcheck, pull all of my effect out the way, take my rack off my head, look at my 7 string and go "pftah, a Korn covers band" then wonder why I am not helping you set levels at the desk.


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## Lozek

7 Dying Trees said:


> Don't complain about monitors, stage sound or that your set is being ruined by not being able to hear stuff properly. Monitors are always shit. They always sound rubbish and then more you rely on them the more lost you'lll get when they really screw up. So don't complain about them when setting up, just get on with the job, don't whinge, use what you're given and just play.



Yup, unless you're the singer and need melodic reference, as long as you're in tune then all you need to hear is the drummer. If you can't play your stuff without hearing it in full technicolour dobly, then you probably don't know it well enough to be playing it live.


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## Groff

Popsyche said:


> Control your fucking stage volume!



We've actually gotten compliments on how loud we WEREN'T.

So many people have commented that they can actually hear everything, and that it's not all white noise.

It's easier to enjoy that way.


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## Stitch

I've had the same. I hate unbalnced mixes. Make it loud enough that every nuance is there, but not so much that the whole thing 'sizzles'. How hard is that?


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## Popsyche

TheMissing said:


> We've actually gotten compliments on how loud we WEREN'T.
> 
> So many people have commented that they can actually hear everything, and that it's not all white noise.
> 
> It's easier to enjoy that way.



Yes it is! We are more vocally based, and hearing what we are trying to sing gives you a better idea of what we do.


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## 7 Dying Trees

Don't insult the sound guy. You WILL sound worse and he won't care.

Don't insult the monitor guy. He'll not care about your mix.

Throwing stuff at said people makes you look like a twat. 

However, the exception to this rule is asking for more trombone and xylophone in the mix.


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## nitelightboy

Chris said:


> Smiling like a madman the whole time.
> 
> For reference, see the bald guy in Dimmu.



You mean Noodles??


[action=nitelightboy]thinks Noodles doesn't want us to know he's secretly in Dimmu.[/action]


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## 7 Dying Trees

nitelightboy said:


> You mean Noodles??
> 
> 
> * nitelightboy thinks Noodles doesn't want us to know he's secretly in Dimmu.


Can someone photoshop a moustache onto noodles? Then we can prove it for once and for all (for once and for all!)


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## Stitch

Wait, it was a secret?


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## ohio_eric

Don't ever ask the crowd if they like to party/drink, especially if you're playing a bar. 

"Does [fill name of city/establishment] like to party?"

"Why no sir we are all quaint Amish folk who enjoy knitting and our barn raisings. "


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## Leon

Popsyche said:


> Yes it is! We are more vocally based, and hearing what we are trying to sing gives you a better idea of what we do.





the thing that i personally had to get my head around is that there's a stage mix, which is largely acoustic, and the venue mix, which is about 90% controlled by the soundguy. his job is easiest (and can thus make a great mix) when the stage mics aren't saturated with everything.

when i figured out how to keep my amp pointed at me, and NOT the vocal mics, our stage volume plummeted, and the soundguys got happier


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## 7 Dying Trees

Also, don't complain about everything sounding shit on stage and automatically thinking it sounds rubbish in the venue. Stage sound and venue sound are wildly different. Sometimes both are amazing, sometimes both suck, most of the time it's a mix between the two. Deal with it.

Also, never ever blame the sound guy for the stage sound. It's got very little to do with him.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Leon said:


> stage volume is a biggie. it's also nice to be able to hear your bass player from the other side of the stage when he yells, "HEY LEON, WHAT KEY IS THIS IN AGAIN?"



We used to have our set up in stereo, my cab on top of the bass players, one stack on each side of the drummer, dropped our stage volume in half, improved our FOH mixes, made it easier for each of us to hear ourselves on stage, and it just looked cool.


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## eaeolian

7 Dying Trees said:


> Also, never ever blame the sound guy for the stage sound. It's got very little to do with him.



Feel free to eviscerate the monitor guy, though.


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## halsinden

i'm afraid i have to stick my neck on the line and say:

"i'd like to dedicate this next song to the memory of dimebag..."

i've just grown tired of it.

H


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## Mr. S

halsinden said:


> i'm afraid i have to stick my neck on the line and say:
> 
> "i'd like to dedicate this next song to the memory of dimebag..."
> 
> i've just grown tired of it.
> 
> H



this can still be acceptable if you replace song with set and then proceed to administer the whole CFH album


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## halsinden

Mr. S said:


> this can still be acceptable if you replace song with set and then proceed to administer the whole CFH album



absolutely agreed, but i find it's just getting a bit like metal's version of 2-pac. for me, there are people who have died more recently of far greater note, and that's within the same genre.

H


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## Mr. S

oh i just thought of one, dont get so drunk you act like a nob on stage and brak a bunch of the venues equipment as it kinda hinders the band from ever getting a gig in that particular area ever again  



halsinden said:


> absolutely agreed, but i find it's just getting a bit like metal's version of 2-pac. for me, there are people who have died more recently of far greater note, and that's within the same genre.
> 
> H



i know what you mean man, it's like people use it as a way to get the crowd into them, "oh shit, i think we're losing them! best throw dimebags name in to wake 'em up"


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## Leon

often when i play, i think of an old buddy of mine, whom i started playing guitar with when we were 13. when i'm playing at home, i'll play a few select tracks for him.

i don't think i'd ever do the, "this one's for you," thing live, though. it's a personal thing for me, and that's all i need.


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## canuck brian

When you're done your set, gather up your gear and clear the stage. Hell, I'll help if you need it. Just DON'T get off the stage and start high fiving your friends in the crowd and socializing while you're tearing into someone else's set time.


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## poisonelvis

and never rub yer' crotch,and then point at me..eeeks


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## Popsyche

poisonelvis said:


> and never rub yer' crotch,and then point at me..eeeks



Unless you're a totally hawt chick singer.


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## poisonelvis

^word!but how often is that?


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## Popsyche

poisonelvis said:


> ^word!but how often is that?



Not NEARLY enough!


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Also, for about the last year that I was touring, we got to the point to where we did little or no talking between songs at all, just slammed into the next one. The only time we did was during a guitar change, & even that was quick because we factored that into our shows, We did our set list to where the first 1/2 of the show was on one guitar tuned to D, then we switched to the 7 string for the remainder.

Cutting the talk allowed us to add another song, which is why we're performing anyway. Talking is for after the show.

Our fans really dug this because it kept the energy level consistent, by the time we finished, you needed a breather anyway.


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## Oogadee Boogadee

Simply put, the "don't" list is the opposite of the "do" list.

DO'S
-cooperate with other merch tables
-communicate with the other bands to organize the fastest transitions possible
-mingle prior to your set and be fun and positive to talk to.
-know your songs.
-organize your set to flow well and end with a pleaser.
-EQ everybody's tone for the clearest mix for live band sound. Being heard should never be a tone issue.... it should only be a volume issue.
-don't act like you're owed something, on-stage, off-stage, etc. to ANYBODY (don't be a bitch).
-get onstage quickly.
-don't yap between the songs (for a metal gig).
-get the fuck off the stage.
-get drunk and be fun to talk to.


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## Popsyche

Oogadee Boogadee said:


> -get drunk and be fun to talk to.



I'm best at that one!


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## TomAwesome

^ Me, too!


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## El Caco

Don't spit water on your audience. Don't even shake it on them.

I paid $50+ to get in here, I can afford my own fucking water.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2

Firedragon said:


> Don't spit water on your audience. Don't even shake it on them.
> 
> I paid $50+ to get in here, I can afford my own fucking water.



I kinda like having water bottles thrown at me personally. Especially when you haven't drank in 5 hours cause you wanted to keep your spot  Spitting is a big nono however


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## Jongpil Yun

Don't think that dancing around on stage like a monkey will make up for the poor quality of your performance.


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## Metal Ken

Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> I kinda like having water bottles thrown at me personally. Especially when you haven't drank in 5 hours cause you wanted to keep your spot  Spitting is a big nono however



Same here. Especially if you've been thrashing around like a motherfucker. 


I always thought the singer air guitaring is kinda corny 

And i hate political rhetoric onstage.


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## B Lopez

Metal Ken said:


> I always thought the singer air guitaring is kinda corny



Chuck Billy springs to mind. Cant help but laugh when he picks up the mic stand.


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## Ken

Hmm. Pretty comprehensive list so far.

Please don't tell me the name of your song before or after you play it. If I like even one of your songs, I'll find out more about the band and the names of your songs.

Please don't introduce the band members. I'm not going to remember their names. It'll be a miracle if I remember the band's name. Again, if I like the band enough I'll seek that information out.

Also, please don't say shit like "here's a new one we're working on". This isn't band practice (goes along with Oogadee's 'know your songs' point).


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## Metal Ken

B Lopez said:


> Chuck Billy springs to mind. Cant help but laugh when he picks up the mic stand.



i know. 

Shame though, one of my favorite bands


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## WarriorOfMetal

7 Dying Trees said:


> Don't complain about monitors, stage sound or that your set is being ruined by not being able to hear stuff properly. Monitors are always shit. They always sound rubbish and then more you rely on them the more lost you'lll get when they really screw up. So don't complain about them when setting up, just get on with the job, don't whinge, use what you're given and just play.



unless you play with a sequenced drum track, where, without being able to hear the tracks in the monitors, you can easily get lost


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## WarriorOfMetal

B Lopez said:


> Chuck Billy springs to mind. Cant help but laugh when he picks up the mic stand.



when i saw Testament, he just had the top section of a boom stand, no base....it was hilarious


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## HamBungler

Don't use full stacks for a coffee house gig, and always mic up through the PA if there is one.


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## AngelVivaldi

NO DRINKS ON THE RIGS!!!!!!

No shoegazing! People are there to watch you perform, not rehearse.


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## yevetz

Ken said:


> Please don't introduce the band members. I'm not going to remember their names. It'll be a miracle if I remember the band's name. Again, if I like the band enough I'll seek that information out.



unagreed  

Don't ever!!!! You hear me EVER drink beer if you jump in to the crowd and someone of the crowd want to share his beer with you while you are playing. Better step a side or just jump back to the stage.

Don't ever left your guitar on stage if you have a two parts in your show. Coz someone drunk from the crowd will want to play it.

Make a tracklist before the stage and not in the process of your show.

Don't ever jump high if you in 'kelt' (or 'kilt' I don't remember exactly) 

Don't bang your head too many. Coz after show your neck will be like spoonge.

Don't ever spit out on a stage (dude are you really need this now? )

Don't say things like "I wrote this song when I was smoking a lot of weed"

Be very accurate while you are jumping. Don't forget yours rifs and watch what under you in this moment. (Like cable or so) 

If you miss few notes don't try to run after others bandmates. Just start from new "part" (especially for bass players)

Get mad, but know where is the line.

Don't show "fuck" to the crowd. (Dude they pay you for listen your shit)

Stay in tune always! Get your personal tuner. (best in pedal or rack)

I think that's all.

Rock on 

Peace


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## Regor

Wow, I was going to post some don'ts... but apparently I break quite a few of these don'ts already:

-I never want to be the jackass that has to constantly ask "Could I get a little more guitar in the monitors?" after every song in the set. I put my stage volume where I can hear myself just fine. Usually I get yelled at by the sound guy that it's too loud for him, but fuck 'em. Never rely on the sound guy to hear yourself on stage IMO. Most of the clubs here have shit sound in the first place. I'd rather they not mic me at all. I got 180W of tube power at my disposal. I'm pretty sure I can take care of myself  

-Personally I find it annoying when bands DON'T tell me the name of their songs. I make sure we say the name of our songs so people know which songs they like best.

-I run out into the crowd, not because I want to 'get them into it' but rather because I have a wireless and think its fun as hell to run around.

-I smile constantly while I'm on stage. CUZ I'M HAVING FUN!!!



Other than those, I agree with a lot of these. But for a shitty band, my all time favorite one is:

"You'll never see us play here again!"

 What else can you say to that but... thanks?


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## WarriorOfMetal

HamBungler said:


> Don't use full stacks for a coffee house gig, and always mic up through the PA if there is one.



unless the PA on hand is incapable of handling more than just vocals at a level where things can be heard above a loud drummer.

and on the other side of that, don't be a drummer who's way too loud for the room.


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## Vince

Metal Ken said:


> And i hate political rhetoric onstage.



ha! You should've heard Jason at our first show in LA! 




Ken said:


> Please don't tell me the name of your song before or after you play it. If I like even one of your songs, I'll find out more about the band and the names of your songs.



Look, Kens, I like you guys, but I actually kinda dig it when bands do this. If I'm really into a band, & I go to see their shows, I like hearing "FOLLOW...THE...HOLLOW!!!!" right before Soilwork rips into the song. Maybe it's just me, but it totally geeks me up for the song.


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## Ken

Well, I won't stir up a big debate because that's not what this thread is for. You guys have your opinions, and I respect that. For me, song titles and member introductions are annoying because half the time I can't even understand what the hell the person at the mic is saying. The other half of the time, I won't remember the info after 3 (or more) sets of different bands.

I believe that when a band does well and makes new fans, said fans will seek out that information. Then again, maybe I just haven't been to enough good shows lately.


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## Jongpil Yun

yevetz said:


> Don't ever jump high if you in 'kelt' (or 'kilt' I don't remember exactly)



Whoa, do people wear kilts often over there? Jumping in a kilt is a no-no, unless you're a hot girl


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## D-EJ915

girls don't wear kilts, they are just for guys


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## Naren

The mark of a bad "MC" is never knowing when to shut up. I've seen too many bands that feel they have to tell the audience where their last gig was, where their next gig is going to be, when it's going to be, what the names of their band members are, what their website is, what the next song is called (I actually felt like laughing when one band's singer said, "I wrote this song at a time in my life when I was really depressed" and continued to ramble on about WHY they wrote the song and what the song means to them), and so on. WE DON'T GIVE A FUCK!! Maybe if you were unbelievably famous, there might be people who hung onto your ever word, but it's not so!

And do not thank anybody when on stage. Do it afterwards in person when you're not on the mic. "I'd like to give a shout out to The Red Chorus Line for inviting us here!"

Another annoyance is bassplayers who turn their volume up all the way and won't listen to the sound guy when they are told to turn it down. "Uh... could you please turn your volume down?" "But then no one will be able to hear me" "I can assure you that that WON'T be a problem." *turns it down a little, but it's still WAY too loud* "That's better, but still way too loud. It's easier to mix the band when the volumes are quieter than when they're louder." Or the singers who just keep wanting to turn themselves up higher and higher and higher.

NEVER EVER insult your audience. One of the things mentioned that I completely agree with is people who get mad at the audience for not getting into it. If they aren't responding, then don't call them the worst audience you've ever seen. You have to try to earn that from them and insulting just guarantees that you won't get it.

Then there are, of course, the black metal and death metal bands that think they are too grim or brutal to do anything interesting and they all just stand there the whole time, doing the exact same thing through the entire set. "You know? You could at least try to move..."


----------



## Nick

Jongpil Yun said:


> Whoa, do people wear kilts often over there? Jumping in a kilt is a no-no, unless you're a hot girl



only to special occasions like weddings etc they are warm as fuck so theres no way id get on stage in one it would be disgustingly sweaty


----------



## zimbloth

Having the venue's molten hot stage lights aimed directly at my gear, thus frying my Boss NS-2 pedal halfway during our opening song, forcing me to scramble to plug directly into the amp as I had no sound.

The above is caught on video and will be uploaded soon. Fucking hilarious shit. 

Also related to the aforementioned gig, if you're going to wear a mask for a Halloween show, make sure to actually practice on it beforehand, so you don't get on stage and then realize you can't breathe or see


----------



## Universalis

nitelightboy said:


> And let's not forget abouta band that just stands there. FRIGGIN' DO SOMETHING!!! Hear that Dream THeater?



Fully agree. My singer is used to fall down the stage almost every gig because of his furious moving attitude. From my side, is simply hilarious. But the audience seems to enjoy it (well, they laugh too sometimes )


----------



## DelfinoPie

zimbloth said:


> Also related to the aforementioned gig, if you're going to wear a mask for a Halloween show, make sure to actually practice on it beforehand, so you don't get on stage and then realize you can't breathe or see



 Nice one.

One thats already been mentioned that I fully agree with...and with an extra sort of spin on it:

If you're the first band on at the start of the night and there is literally a group of 3 friends standing watching you, don't get off the stage with your wireless signally shit and run around the bar where other people are sitting enjoying a conversation while you haphazardly bump into their tables spilling their drinks. Similarly, don't argue with the venues bouncers when they ask you to stop climbing on the furniture...if you fall and your face has an intimate introduction to the floor in which you lose some teeth, £50 says you're not the one picking them up again and mopping up the blood. 

On the same note, don't damage the venue just because you want to be the maddest, craziest mutherfuckers out there...word will get around and not only will you not get a gig there but you won't get a gig anywhere in the vicinity of that venue.

Have fun, put on a good show...but do it with some constraint at the same time.


----------



## 7 Dying Trees

yevetz said:


> Don't ever jump high if you in 'kelt' (or 'kilt' I don't remember exactly)


Depends if you're wearing anything under the kilt...



yevetz said:


> Don't bang your head too many. Coz after show your neck will be like spoonge.


Now headbanging is fine. I used to take about 3-4 days of stiff neck at the beginning of a tour, and after that it'd be fine. If you can't feel your neck then you've not gone nuts enough 

Lots of headbanging, stage movement etc is a definatew DO. Holding back because you may have stiff muscles is a definate don't (or very, uhhh, :gay


yevetz said:


> Be very accurate while you are jumping. Don't forget yours rifs and watch what under you in this moment. (Like cable or so)


Or the singer. Especially if he's reaaaaly short



yevetz said:


> If you miss few notes don't try to run after others bandmates. Just start from new "part" (especially for bass players)


That is what pick scrapes and whammy badr dives where invented for!



Regor said:


> Wow, I was going to post some don'ts... but apparently I break quite a few of these don'ts already:


It's been quite interesting, as I think everyone has different pet hates, although there are common ones 



Regor said:


> -I never want to be the jackass that has to constantly ask "Could I get a little more guitar in the monitors?" after every song in the set. I put my stage volume where I can hear myself just fine. Usually I get yelled at by the sound guy that it's too loud for him, but fuck 'em. Never rely on the sound guy to hear yourself on stage IMO. Most of the clubs here have shit sound in the first place. I'd rather they not mic me at all. I got 180W of tube power at my disposal. I'm pretty sure I can take care of myself


Ah, it's more just the get on with it. If you know you are on, then you should be able to play the set without hearing yourself weird as it sounds. Well, that's my philosophy anyway, as on larger stages sometimes you end up so far from your rig that you can't hear it at all, so you're just hoping it's all still maiing noise


Regor said:


> -Personally I find it annoying when bands DON'T tell me the name of their songs. I make sure we say the name of our songs so people know which songs they like best.


Yeah, i sometimes really do want to know. Although i prefer it VASTLY if the name of the song is incorporated into the start, or delivered well. Going: "this next song is called "putrificator of satan's northern realm" and we hope you like it, here we go...." while staring at your shoes or delivered like a scared rabbit in the headlights is not going to make me want to hear it. 


Regor said:


> -I smile constantly while I'm on stage. CUZ I'M HAVING FUN!!!


I think this mainly applies to grim-uber-tr00-kvlt-t00-metal-f0r-any0n3's eyes bands


Regor said:


> Other than those, I agree with a lot of these. But for a shitty band, my all time favorite one is:
> 
> "You'll never see us play here again!"
> 
> What else can you say to that but... thanks?


 I am going to have to use that


----------



## zimbloth

7 Dying Trees said:


> "this next song is called "putrificator of satan's northern realm"



  

NORTHERN IMPALED MOON FOREST!!! HAIL THE NECROWIZARD!


----------



## Metal Ken

Vince said:


> ha! You should've heard Jason at our first show in LA!



Well, I posted that after watching a video of Fozzy where Chris Jericho was talking about what he wants to do to terrorists.Or, f.ex, on the BLS disc where they're doing the same thing. It was some corny fucking shit. THough, it was hilarious when zakk said "FUCK IRAQ!" right in the middle of Berzerkers (I think it was that one) 




Vince said:


> Look, Kens, I like you guys, but I actually kinda dig it when bands do this. If I'm really into a band, & I go to see their shows, I like hearing "FOLLOW...THE...HOLLOW!!!!" right before Soilwork rips into the song. Maybe it's just me, but it totally geeks me up for the song.



I like song intros too. 


Yevetz- Headbanging is the best. If your ears don't ring and your neck isnt jelly after the show,the concert sucked ;p


----------



## yevetz

Jongpil Yun said:


> Whoa, do people wear kilts often over there? Jumping in a kilt is a no-no, unless you're a hot girl



No. Mens don't wear kilts ever here. Just my friend was in scotland and get one there. And I borrow it from him for my show................ So...........Dudes just in case if you will do the same . Don't jump very high 



Metal Ken said:


> Yevetz- Headbanging is the best. If your ears don't ring and your neck isnt jelly after the show,the concert sucked ;p



 Dude, read my post carefuly, I don't said don't bang, I said don't bang too much.


----------



## Metal Ken

yevetz said:


> No. Mens don't wear kilts ever here. Just my friend was in scotland and get one there. And I borrow it from him for my show................ So...........Dudes just in case if you will do the same . Don't jump very high
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, read my post carefuly, I don't said don't bang, I said don't bang too much.



I'm saying you cant do it too much


----------



## Lozek

yevetz said:


> Just my friend was in scotland and get one there. And I borrow it from him for my show



You borrowed another mans kilt? You know you can be hung for that in Scotland? At the very least you should probably get a tetanus shot.


----------



## eaeolian

Ken said:


> Well, I won't stir up a big debate because that's not what this thread is for. You guys have your opinions, and I respect that. For me, song titles and member introductions are annoying because half the time I can't even understand what the hell the person at the mic is saying. The other half of the time, I won't remember the info after 3 (or more) sets of different bands.



We don't do member introductions, but Nick does give the song titles (and pimp merch) between songs. Then again, you can understand him speak, and he doesn't growl the titles (which has to be THE dumbest thing ever.)


----------



## Stitch

Fuck you, Lozek.


----------



## Lozek

Stitch said:


> Fuck you, Lozek.



Calm it down, I've heard about _your kind_ from my days in the services


----------



## Regor

7 Dying Trees said:


> Ah, it's more just the get on with it. If you know you are on, then you should be able to play the set without hearing yourself weird as it sounds. Well, that's my philosophy anyway, as on larger stages sometimes you end up so far from your rig that you can't hear it at all, so you're just hoping it's all still maiing noise



If I can't hear myself on stage, then I'm going to have a not so great gig for sure. I always have my best performances when I can hear myself clearly anywhere on stage (which is when I have my poweramp on 12:00, and the G-Force output at +10db... Most sound guys make me turn it down to about +5 or 0).


----------



## zimbloth

Regor said:


> If I can't hear myself on stage, then I'm going to have a not so great gig for sure. I always have my best performances when I can hear myself clearly anywhere on stage (which is when I have my poweramp on 12:00, and the G-Force output at +10db... Most sound guys make me turn it down to about +5 or 0).




+5? On my G-Force, the highest it can go is 0dB. Do you just mean the output knob on the unit itself? I have that maxed out, and the input set fairly low (if i put it above 9'oclock the signal overloads)



eaeolian said:


> Then again, you can understand him speak, and he doesn't growl the titles (which has to be THE dumbest thing ever.)



More like the _funniest _thing ever  Corpsegrinder is the absolute king of that.

"This next song goes out to you ladies out there.... [growl] FUCKED!!! WITH A KNIFE!!!!!!..."


----------



## 7 Dying Trees

Regor said:


> If I can't hear myself on stage, then I'm going to have a not so great gig for sure. I always have my best performances when I can hear myself clearly anywhere on stage (which is when I have my poweramp on 12:00, and the G-Force output at +10db... Most sound guys make me turn it down to about +5 or 0).


True, it's nicer to hear what you're playing, but I know i've been in situations where the sound was crap with no way of really changing it (festivals are a huge culprit for this, sounds is always terrible!)


----------



## 7 Dying Trees

Metal Ken said:


> Headbanging is the best. If your ears don't ring and your neck isnt jelly after the show,the concert sucked ;p


I'd take it one step further, if you have to rotate your torso to look sideways, then you know it was a good show!


----------



## Regor

zimbloth said:


> +5? On my G-Force, the highest it can go is 0dB. Do you just mean the output knob on the unit itself? I have that maxed out, and the input set fairly low (if i put it above 9'oclock the signal overloads)



The input and output knobs on the G-Force go form -22db to +23db. My input is set at -22db (sometimes -20db, if i'm trying to be 'sneaky' with the sound guy), and the output is usually set at +10db live/rehearsals (+5/0 after sound guy yells at me )


----------



## yevetz

Metal Ken said:


> I'm saying you cant do it too much



Thanks and sorry


----------



## Groff

How about this...
*USE A GODDAMN TUNER!*

We have played with several bands that spend 15 minutes before their set, with amps blaring, tuning their guitars to eachother.

Needless to say, the singer couldn't find pitch to save his life because of it.
And the guitars weren't even tuned _correctly_ so bad notes were common.

$15 for a tuner... Seriously... Don't show up without one.


----------



## Lozek

Don't stand onstage while you are waiting for your other bandmembers to get ready and play along to whatever music is playing on the PA/jam on your own stuff/solo. Drummers are the worst for this, I believe the equation works like this:

Sticks in hand = Hit stuff


----------



## ZeroSignal

Drunk musicians for the MAJOR lose/fail!


----------



## Stitch

Lozek said:


> Don't stand onstage while you are waiting for your other bandmembers to get ready and play along to whatever music is playing on the PA/jam on your own stuff/solo. Drummers are the worst for this, I believe the equation works like this:
> 
> Sticks in hand = Hit stuff



Allow me to refine that to:

Do NOT play ANYTHING until your first song. Don't hit the strings. Don't hit the snare, it is still there. Don't give us a little roll. Don't tap the bass drum, the triggers are still set up. 

In short SHUT UP! Same goes for my bandmates in practice.


----------



## Drew

Lozek said:


> Don't stand onstage while you are waiting for your other bandmembers to get ready and play along to whatever music is playing on the PA/jam on your own stuff/solo. Drummers are the worst for this, I believe the equation works like this:
> 
> Sticks in hand = Hit stuff



The one exception is a few seconds' worth of groove to like check kit alignment and shit. If it's more than a bar, though, or if you're the opener...


----------



## TomAwesome

Metal Ken said:


> If your ears don't ring and your neck isnt jelly after the show,the concert sucked ;p



I'm going to disagree with the first part of that. If losing your hearing is metal, you can take a gold star off of my metal chart and let me keep my hearing. Earplugs every show, playing or spectating, for me.  I do usually walk off stage with jelly neck, though. I stretch the hell out of my neck before I go on, though, so I don't get that annoying stiffness later on. A little preparation can go a long way.

I'm also going to agree with James about not being able to hear yourself. Yeah, it helps if you can hear yourself for sure, but you should pretty much expect to have shitty monitoring at every gig. If you know your shit, you should be fine as long as you can hear the drummer. I can rarely hear myself more than enough to know that my amp is functioning properly. Usually I can hear the drums just well enough, and maybe the bass.


----------



## Groff

Stitch said:


> Allow me to refine that to:
> 
> Do NOT play ANYTHING until your first song. Don't hit the strings. Don't hit the snare, it is still there. Don't give us a little roll. Don't tap the bass drum, the triggers are still set up.
> 
> In short SHUT UP! Same goes for my bandmates in practice.





The only playing we allow ourselves is when we're playing small bars, our drummer tunes his kit quickly, but that's just a local show.

When we played the Troc, We stepped onto the stage, hit a powerchord, introduced the song, and we were off. not more than 5 seconds


----------



## yevetz

Stitch said:


> Allow me to refine that to:
> 
> Do NOT play ANYTHING until your first song. Don't hit the strings. Don't hit the snare, it is still there. Don't give us a little roll. Don't tap the bass drum, the triggers are still set up.
> 
> In short SHUT UP! Same goes for my bandmates in practice.



Uh......and if sound engeneer will forget to pull up your chanel or so?


----------



## Metal Ken

TomAwesome said:


> I'm going to disagree with the first part of that. If losing your hearing is metal, you can take a gold star off of my metal chart and let me keep my hearing. Earplugs every show, playing or spectating, for me.  I do usually walk off stage with jelly neck, though. I stretch the hell out of my neck before I go on, though, so I don't get that annoying stiffness later on. A little preparation can go a long way.



I always wear earplugs too. ;p


----------



## Regor

TomAwesome said:


> I'm also going to agree with James about not being able to hear yourself. Yeah, it helps if you can hear yourself for sure, but you should pretty much expect to have shitty monitoring at every gig. If you know your shit, you should be fine as long as you can hear the drummer. I can rarely hear myself more than enough to know that my amp is functioning properly. Usually I can hear the drums just well enough, and maybe the bass.



Well, that's my point behind "Never trust the sound guy to hear yourself on stage" If that dumbass has a bad mix, your show is going to be bad. If you crank your shit nice and loud, you don't have to worry about him.

Rule of thumb. Rely on your own gear to be able to hear yourself on stage.


----------



## yevetz

Metal Ken said:


> I always wear earplugs too. ;p



What is earplugs?


----------



## Naren

Stitch said:


> Allow me to refine that to:
> 
> Do NOT play ANYTHING until your first song. Don't hit the strings. Don't hit the snare, it is still there. Don't give us a little roll. Don't tap the bass drum, the triggers are still set up.
> 
> In short SHUT UP! Same goes for my bandmates in practice.



 Oftentimes the band before us is really loud, playing all this annoying unmatched bullshit before their first song. The drummer is playing one thing while the one guitarist is just playing random riffage while the other guitarist is also playing random riffage and the bass player is trying to solo on his bass.  It's fucking annoying.

My band goes up there and it's pure silence. Yeah, we checked everything in the sound check, already tuned our guitars (to our tuners, which makes it completely silent) and everything is set to 0 and the drummer is not playing. So that the first time you hear us playing is the intro for our first song.

I don't know why other bands don't understand something as basic as this.



yevetz said:


> What is earplugs?



a plug of soft, pliable material inserted into the opening of the outer ear, esp. to keep out water or noise. 

An object made of a soft, pliable material, such as cotton or rubber, and fitted into the ear canal to block the entry of water or sound. 

a plug of cotton, wax, or rubber that is fitted into the ear canal for protection against the entry of water or loud noise 

a device of pliable material for insertion into the outer opening of the ear (as to keep out water or deaden sound)


----------



## Popsyche

yevetz said:


> What is earplugs?



Or it's like a buttplug, except for your ear.


----------



## Ojinomoto

yevetz said:


> Don't ever jump high if you in 'kilt."



Unless you're hung nicely...
<----


----------



## yevetz

Naren said:


> a plug of soft, pliable material inserted into the opening of the outer ear, esp. to keep out water or noise.
> 
> An object made of a soft, pliable material, such as cotton or rubber, and fitted into the ear canal to block the entry of water or sound.
> 
> a plug of cotton, wax, or rubber that is fitted into the ear canal for protection against the entry of water or loud noise
> 
> a device of pliable material for insertion into the outer opening of the ear (as to keep out water or deaden sound)



Thanks



Popsyche said:


> Or it's like a buttplug, exscept for your ear.



Thanks


----------



## eaeolian

zimbloth said:


> More like the _funniest _thing ever  Corpsegrinder is the absolute king of that.
> 
> "This next song goes out to you ladies out there.... [growl] FUCKED!!! WITH A KNIFE!!!!!!..."



Yes, but when most of the second-rate growlers I see do it, it comes out "This next one is called RGGRGH RGGHH RGHGRGRGHG".


----------



## The Dark Wolf




----------



## Leon

eaeolian said:


> Yes, but when most of the second-rate growlers I see do it, it comes out "This next one is called RGGRGH RGGHH RGHGRGRGHG".



what's a first-rate growler sound like?


----------



## Groff

If you need to borrow gear before a show, for the love of god let someone know at least a day before hand, not as you're setting up!!!

I don't mind lending gear, but I hate it when a band is setting up, and says "Hey... Do you have a speaker cab?" Yeah no prob.. "Oh, do you have an amp and a guitar too??"


----------



## yevetz

TheMissing said:


> If you need to borrow gear before a show, for the love of god let someone know at least a day before hand, not as you're setting up!!!
> 
> I don't mind lending gear, but I hate it when a band is setting up, and says "Hey... Do you have a speaker cab?" Yeah no prob.. "Oh, do you have an amp and a guitar too??"



"hey and you have chick that can give me blow job before stage?"

 Any musician must have his/her own gear. Even a cabels!


----------



## Regor

I'm sorry, but I ain't letting ANY local bands who I don't personally know WELL use any of my gear. And they sure as HELL ain't touching any settings on my amp.

When Division came to MI, Kevin and I let them use our cabs. But that's about the extent of it, because we knew them and all. But other local bands should have their own shit. If you don't, that's YOUR problem... not mine.

I sure as HELL wouldn't let them use a guitar either. My Randy gets played by ME! Fuck me running if I'm gonna let some assclown run around on stage with my baby and fuck it up by banging it into something. HELL NO!

I can't even believe people would have the audacity to ask such a thing.


----------



## bostjan

I used to play with a singer who announced every song as "This is a little song by" -BAND- "called" -TITLE-. It works for one or maybe even two songs, but it starts getting comical after the third one.

I also knew a guy who would break the living daylights out of his strings, and then keep playing with the same finger positions on his floyd-rose equipped Hamer or BC Rich. Every gig, he'd do this at least once. One show he did this three times in two sets. Every time, I'd remind him that his guitar goes horribly out of tune and that he should a) use a lighter touch or heavier strings and b) not play after snapping a string. After all, we had two guitars and a bass in the band, plus he always had a backup guitar that he could have grabbed in a pinch.


----------



## Leon

^  (@ Rog)

i'll let someone play my guitar, but only in my house, and only on stage if i know them well enough that they won't fuck it up.

as far as my gear, they can play on it, but yeah, fuck with my settings and i'll fuck with you


----------



## ZeroSignal

+1 for the earplugs. Makes Vai sound so much better!


----------



## Groff

Leon said:


> ^  (@ Rog)
> 
> i'll let someone play my guitar, but only in my house, and only on stage if i know them well enough that they won't fuck it up.
> 
> as far as my gear, they can play on it, but yeah, fuck with my settings and i'll fuck with you



I let someone borrow my guitar ONCE, but he played in the same tuning as I did, and he's someone we've played live with plenty of times, so I know he wasn't one to jump around on stage.

I've lent out my amp twice, one asked me a week prior, and the other asked as they were setting up. Guess which one is on my shit list and which one isnt. 



yevetz said:


> "hey and you have chick that can give me blow job before stage?"



I'll have to try that one 

"Can I borrow your amp?"
"Can I borrow your girlfriend?"


----------



## eaeolian

Regor said:


> I'm sorry, but I ain't letting ANY local bands who I don't personally know WELL use any of my gear. And they sure as HELL ain't touching any settings on my amp.



We are frequently forced to have the other locals use our cabs and drums, much like we did in MI (TYVM, BTW). In fact, the last show everyone just used our bass rig, cabs, and drums (other than kicks) but they didn't get to play with the settings on the bass amp.

I've loaned my amp to my friends a few times. However, it was NEVER left to the night of the gig to figure that out...


----------



## eaeolian

Metal Ken said:


> I always wear earplugs too. ;p



+10,000. Anyone that doesn't (and doesn't have stage volume control, i.e. they're playing with live drums), is, IMO, out of their mind.


----------



## Popsyche

Leon said:


> ^  (@ Rog)
> 
> as far as my gear, they can play on it, but yeah, fuck with my settings and i'll fuck with you



This annoying woman used my Marshall at a party one time, and I came back to find all 6 knobs set to 6. Now while that is very metal, it sounded like asscakes.


----------



## Drew

It's a karma thing... Always help out a musician in need and one day if you're that guy who'll always hook a brother up in the local music scene, if something crazy happens (say, your brand new TSL gets two pints dumped into it, shattering power tubes - been there ) someone will be there to give you a hand, most likely. 

Anyone who's gigging without a working guitar, well... Eh, who knows. Still, when in doubt, karma. 

EDIT - yeah, I've only borrowed amps night-of twice. Once in that aforementioned Marshall fiasco which happened during setup, and another time when we opted to only use one guitar rig on stage due to space constraints and after trying out his rig I decided I could probably live with it - it helped that he was using an OD so I was free to set the distortion channel however I wanted. Still, that was a convenience thing at that point in time less than me being a dumbass.


----------



## Regor

Drew said:


> Still, when in doubt, karma.



Here's a Karma story for you:

I let a friend's sister's boyfriend who was in a punk band borrow my wireless Nady One unit for a show. Guess what? It was "stolen" and I never got it back. So I had to HARASS this dumbass kid to replace my unit. And he said he'd buy the most expensive unit to replace it. Well, I got a unit thru Musicians Friend in the mail... and it was the CHEAPEST unit they sold. I called the kid, and went thru a shitload of hassle to return the unit myself to MF.com and then harass him to get me an 'equivalent' unit back. And he's bitching to me about it because he bought a record store and he's like "How am I supposed to afford this, I've got a record store to run..." NOT MY PROBLEM!! You borrowed it, you lost it, YOU FUCKING OWE ME!

I get burned TOO many times because I'm a nice guy. I'm still out $934 for helping a friend pay his electrical bills cuz he had a wife and 3 kids. Never heard from him again.

Karma can kiss my ass... cuz I haven't seen the other side of the coin yet.  DTA is my motto... Don't Trust Anything. With my luck, I'll lend someone my gear, and it'll get ruined. I'm not willing to take that chance.


----------



## poisonelvis

can i borrow the mesa?i'll give you these car keys to hold.


----------



## TomAwesome

I'm somewhere between Drew's and Reg's viewpoints on this stuff. It's good to get points with people and earn a reputation as a good guy, but it's also important not to let yourself get screwed. I'm a pretty nice guy, but like Regor, I've been screwed because of it and have yet to see a return on most of the good karma I've put out. I believe in karma to an extent, but I don't view it as an active force, so it's not like there's a point system of how much karma you're owed and will get back. It's all about making judgment calls about who you should and shouldn't help and how much you should go out of your way to help them.


----------



## El Caco

TomAwesome said:


> I'm a pretty nice guy, but like Regor, I've been screwed because of it and have yet to see a return on most of the good karma I've put out.


----------



## yevetz

I can give my gear. But only to the man that I trust.

I newer borrowed gear. But even if I will I will looks for it better than for my gear.....coz fuck it's not mine....and man who is give me is very nice.....so I need keep my eye on it very carefuly.......and after show (or record) I must entertain him by something or do some present for him.


----------



## maliciousteve

Don't turn up to a gig with a guitar with dodgy wiring and you know somethings going to mess up.

this once happened at a show I was playing. guys turn up, think they're the bollocks but sound terrible and sound like a very very bad Chimaira. One of the guitarists had trouble with his guitar as it wouldn't produce any sound. 

The other guitarist in my band had to literally fix it back stage after this guy asked to use one of our GUITARS for his set. To which I said "no way in a million years is that fucker touching my guitar let alone use it, it cost more than his gear and his clothes put together" (my custom Feline/Ibanez Universe at the time).

I think my band were the only band that didn't have trouble setting up, playing and entertaining the crowd that night.


----------



## Ojinomoto

yevetz said:


> I can give my gear. But only to the man that I trust.
> 
> I newer borrowed gear. But even if I will I will looks for it better than for my gear.....coz fuck it's not mine....and man who is give me is very nice.....so I need keep my eye on it very carefuly.......and after show (or record) I must entertain him by something or do some present for him.




+1000000

Couldn't have said it better myself... well, metaphorically speaking.


----------



## poisonelvis

never,and i mean never,shit on stage,i know it sounds cool and all,but the end results are bad,it's smelly,and slippery,yeah,i know who would have thought someone would slip in shit and brake his arm,not me...


----------



## yevetz

poisonelvis said:


> never,and i mean never,shit on stage,i know it sounds cool and all,but the end results are bad,it's smelly,and slippery,yeah,i know who would have thought someone would slip in shit and brake his arm,not me...



   

WTF that was?!?!?!

P.S. Sorry Vince


----------



## bostjan

Likewise, never eat garbage people throw on the stage during a show, it may contain GHB.


----------



## Metal Ken

zimbloth said:


> +5? On my G-Force, the highest it can go is 0dB. Do you just mean the output knob on the unit itself? I have that maxed out, and the input set fairly low (if i put it above 9'oclock the signal overloads)
> 
> 
> 
> More like the _funniest _thing ever  Corpsegrinder is the absolute king of that.
> 
> "This next song goes out to you ladies out there.... [growl] FUCKED!!! WITH A KNIFE!!!!!!..."



Best song intro ever:
"This next song is about shooting blood out of your cock!"


----------



## Abhorred

poisonelvis said:


> never,and i mean never,shit on stage,i know it sounds cool and all,but the end results are bad,it's smelly,and slippery,yeah,i know who would have thought someone would slip in shit and brake his arm,not me...



Did a show with GG, then?


----------



## Chris

Regor said:


> If I can't hear myself on stage, then I'm going to have a not so great gig for sure. I always have my best performances when I can hear myself clearly anywhere on stage (which is when I have my poweramp on 12:00, and the G-Force output at +10db... Most sound guys make me turn it down to about +5 or 0).



If you scoop out all your mids in a live environment, that probably has a lot to do with it.


----------



## Regor

Chris said:


> If you scoop out all your mids in a live environment, that probably has a lot to do with it.




The only freq I scoop is 355Hz. But yeah, I realize that. I'm working on adjusting my tone to fix this actually.


----------



## The Dark Wolf




----------



## Groff

Don't beat your face in with someone elses mic, effectivly breaking the top part off of it, bleed all over it, then complain that the mic is cutting out. "It must be the cable!"





bostjan said:


> Likewise, never eat garbage people throw on the stage during a show, it may contain GHB.



Why would anyone do that?! Please don't do that.


----------



## Chris

Regor said:


> The only freq I scoop is 355Hz. But yeah, I realize that. I'm working on adjusting my tone to fix this actually.



 I'm a scoop-lover as well, I know it's a hard habit to break.


----------



## Regor

Chris said:


> I'm a scoop-lover as well, I know it's a hard habit to break.



Scooping sounds great... when I get to play at loud levels


----------



## Chris

Regor said:


> Scooping sounds great... when I get to play at loud levels



To you.  Try playing drums, or singing to it sometime.


----------



## Regor

Actually, we gotta play loud because our drummer is a hard hitter. He's got 2 volumes. On and off  As for singing, well its amazing how not using a house SM58 can make for better vocals (Try an AKG D790... I've already converted 2 other local bands to them).


----------



## Ojinomoto

Regor said:


> I've already converted 2 other local bands to them).



 Thats awesome.


----------



## guitarplayerone

Don'ts
I cant believe nobody has mentioned cover songs.

Enough with the fucking cover songs.

If I wanted to hear Slayer, I would go home and listen to it.

Ive heard ONE good cover ever, and this was a local thrash band covering Tornado of Souls. All of these guys were at least six years older than everyone else at the bar...

Do's
-Mids up. Also, get a fucking boost for solos. 10db at least.

-Gain down. (at least for rythm). Seriously, if you cant play with the gain at 12 o'clock then you havent rehearsed enough. Otherwise all the audience hears is fzzzzzzzz fzzzz fzzzz fzzzz fzz fzzzzzzzzz

-Tune the gear before you get to the show, so you dont have as much to tune when you get there...

-Dont play a gig if you have shitty equipment.

-Bring your own mic's

-Bring gloves. These places are fuckin cold brick dungeons. I bring my furry ones and sit on the hands till we're up

Shit like this is why the only shows I go to nowadays are the ones I play (or pro bands)


----------



## Regor

guitarplayerone said:


> Don'ts
> I cant believe nobody has mentioned cover songs.
> 
> Enough with the fucking cover songs.
> 
> If I wanted to hear Slayer, I would go home and listen to it.
> 
> Ive heard ONE good cover ever, and this was a local thrash band covering Tornado of Souls. All of these guys were at least six years older than everyone else at the bar...



I'm sorry to say you've got shitty bands then. Because my band covers songs great (Check out our MySpace videos if you don't believe me). And we've found that opening with a cover is a GREAT way to get the crowd to come up to the stage when you're playing. Every time we open with a Pantera, Metallica, Megadeth, etc. people come running up to the stage. Then they stay there for the rest of the set. And we like to finish with a good cover too, which gets them even more interested into you. Last show we did, we opened with "...And Justice For All" and ended with "Raining Blood".


----------



## El Caco

I like a good cover thrown in occasionally, I just don't like straight up covers, I prefer it when a band changes it up and makes it their own. A friends band that is now split up used to do "Were only gonna die for our arrogance", they did an awesome cover of this and it was funny when they introduced it, "this one is a cover of a cover of a cover of a cover".


----------



## Naren

Firedragon said:


> I like a good cover thrown in occasionally, I just don't like straight up covers, I prefer it when a band changes it up and makes it their own. A friends band that is now split up used to do "Were only gonna die for our arrogance", they did an awesome cover of this and it was funny when they introduced it, "this one is a cover of a cover of a cover of a cover".



Same here. I actually like when a band does one or two covers of songs I know and like. If it's nothing but covers, then it's kind of boring.

I used to joke about "This is our cover of the Dave Matthews cover of the Jimi Hendrix cover of the Bob Dylan song, 'All Along The Watchtower.'" and other similarly ridiculous ideas.


----------



## Zepp88

Not sure if it's been said in this beast of a thread.



Never, NEVER tune your guitar on stage without a muting tuner. 




Our other guitarist does this and it bugs the shit out of me....I gave him a nice planet waves tuner pedal!


----------



## Naren

Zepp88 said:


> Not sure if it's been said in this beast of a thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Never, NEVER tune your guitar on stage without a muting tuner.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our other guitarist does this and it bugs the shit out of me....I gave him a nice planet waves tuner pedal!



I can't stand people who do this. The other guitarist in my band has the exact same tuner as me and our old bass player also used the same tuner. Even with our current lineup, we all tune silently to our tuners, hook up with our guitar volume knobs at 0, then turn them up only before our first song.

People who tune on stage out loud have no idea how noisy and annoying it is.


----------



## Zepp88

Naren said:


> I can't stand people who do this. The other guitarist in my band has the exact same tuner as me and our old bass player also used the same tuner. Even with our current lineup, we all tune silently to our tuners, hook up with our guitar volume knobs at 0, then turn them up only before our first song.
> 
> People who tune on stage out loud have no idea how noisy and annoying it is.



Consider yourself lucky


----------



## InTheRavensName

Regor said:


> I'm sorry to say you've got shitty bands then. Because my band covers songs great (Check out our MySpace videos if you don't believe me). And we've found that opening with a cover is a GREAT way to get the crowd to come up to the stage when you're playing. Every time we open with a Pantera, Metallica, Megadeth, etc. people come running up to the stage. Then they stay there for the rest of the set. And we like to finish with a good cover too, which gets them even more interested into you. Last show we did, we opened with "...And Justice For All" and ended with "Raining Blood".



Seconded, you guys do a good "Holy Wars"


Mine: Intro tapes-if its more than 2 minutes, you're Iron Maiden


----------



## Zepp88

Full stacks are NOT neccessary. 

Don't go through all the extra hassle to play an average sized venue.


----------



## Cancer

Ken said:


> Again, if I like the band enough I'll seek that information out.



That said, get a banner with your band name, and make sure to put it up somewhere at the venue, I heard too many great band who've gone uninvestigated by me because I couldn't remember their name. Vinyl banners are cheap so there is no excuse.


----------



## Stitch

InTheRavensName said:


> Seconded, you guys do a good "Holy Wars"
> 
> 
> Mine: Intro tapes-if its more than 2 minutes, you're Iron Maiden gay.



Fixed.


----------



## T_money419

dont come on shirtless. If you really feel the need to show muscles do it at least halfway through.
unless female


----------



## Zepp88

Don't be a mouthy asshole on stage...refrain from stupid comments such as "we're fuckin' awesome"....etc...


----------



## Naren

Zepp88 said:


> Consider yourself lucky



If I didn't have a guitarist or bass player like that, I would consistently tell them every day that they were so fucking annoying until they realized how annoying it was themselves and changed, starting out with nice comments like "Wow. That's loud and... kinda annoying, y'know?" and, if they didn't listen, I'd get more annoying each day, "Damn, that's fucking annoying! Sounds like fingers on a chalkboard to me. If I had a son and he did that, I'd beat the shit out him, man." 

Most Americans would probably reply with the "You're wrong! I'm right! I won't change because you think it's annoying!" thing, while most of the Japanese I've played with would probably answer, "Hm... I never thought about it that way. I guess that could be annoying." and I'd offer to help them find a good tuner. 

Fortunately, I've played in 3 bands over the last two years, the current one for over a year, and I've never played with any guitarists or bass players who didn't tune silently to a tuner (although I have seen bands like that at gigs we've played).


----------



## Zepp88

I dunno, maybe I know a stubborn bunch


----------



## zimbloth

Zepp88 said:


> Full stacks are NOT neccessary.
> 
> Don't go through all the extra hassle to play an average sized venue.



Screw you, I'm going to bring a fucking wall of 4x12s to our next club show just to spite you. YOU DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO, *I THOUGHT THIS WAS AMERICA!!
*


----------



## Zepp88

^



Go ahead, break your back for nothing.


----------



## InTheRavensName

InTheRavensName said:


> Seconded, you guys do a good "Holy Wars"
> 
> 
> Mine: Intro tapes-if its more than 2 minutes, you're _Stitchy_



(Beating the mods to the punch )


----------



## Rick Pierpont

eaeolian said:


> I've been there. I'm practically the stage manager at Jaxx when we play there because I *will not* let this happen to us. Somebody's got to teach the kids how it works...



You aren't kidding Mike! That's me too! It happened a couple of times and I had enough. If only we could run FOH and monitors (especially monitors) too! 



Oogadee Boogadee said:


> Simply put, the "don't" list is the opposite of the "do" list.
> 
> DO'S
> -cooperate with other merch tables
> -communicate with the other bands to organize the fastest transitions possible
> -mingle prior to your set and be fun and positive to talk to.
> -know your songs.
> -organize your set to flow well and end with a pleaser.
> -EQ everybody's tone for the clearest mix for live band sound. Being heard should never be a tone issue.... it should only be a volume issue.
> -don't act like you're owed something, on-stage, off-stage, etc. to ANYBODY (don't be a bitch).
> -get onstage quickly.
> -don't yap between the songs (for a metal gig).
> -get the fuck off the stage.
> -get drunk and be fun to talk to.




A few more:
- make sure your drummer controls himself so that it is easier to control the stage volume
- make sure your drummer doesn't get lost on the way to the show
- make sure your drummer isn't hitting on all the women in the place (that can be difficult at a prog show) 
- make sure your drummer doesn't bring his quad kick set with 15 toms, and 132 cymbals for every show. Especially when only getting a 30 minute set. 

Hi James! 



T_money419 said:


> dont come on shirtless. If you really feel the need to show muscles do it at least halfway through.
> unless female


+1,000,000 I hate that! Its fucking pretentious and let me beat Stitchy to it... gay! 

There is only one time where I think it would've been somewhat acceptable and that was with my old band opening for Symphony X at Jaxx this past August. It was one of the hottest days of the summer (104 F when I arrived at 5P) AND the AC was broken. I have never sweat so much in my life. That was a brutal show! When loading out our equipment off the stage @ 8:30, it felt AMAZING outside - it was still 95 F). I suspect that it was in excess of 120 inside the concert hall. Mike, Dave, James, do you agree? 

Still, no one took their shirts off this time though.


----------



## bulb

DON'T play live....ever!


----------



## B Lopez

bulb said:


> DON'T play live....ever!



That's the track I'm on right now.


----------



## Ojinomoto

Naren said:


> If I had a son and he did that, I'd beat the shit out him, man."


 

This is fucking classic! Holy shit! 



Naren said:


> Most Americans would probably reply with the "You're wrong! I'm right! I won't change because you think it's annoying!" thing, while most of the Japanese I've played with would probably answer, "Hm... I never thought about it that way. I guess that could be annoying." and I'd offer to help them find a good tuner.



Situations like this is what makes me glad I like to be around other cultures. There's so much one can learn from others who are different from oneself.


----------



## Oogadee Boogadee

Rick Pierpont said:


> You aren't kidding Mike! That's me too! It happened a couple of times and I had enough. If only we could run FOH and monitors (especially monitors) too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few more:
> - make sure your drummer controls himself so that it is easier to control the stage volume
> - make sure your drummer doesn't get lost on the way to the show
> - make sure your drummer isn't hitting on all the women in the place (that can be difficult at a prog show)
> - make sure your drummer doesn't bring his quad kick set with 15 toms, and 132 cymbals for every show. Especially when only getting a 30 minute set.
> 
> Hi James!
> 
> 
> +1,000,000 I hate that! Its fucking pretentious and let me beat Stitchy to it... gay!
> 
> There is only one time where I think it would've been somewhat acceptable and that was with my old band opening for Symphony X at Jaxx this past August. It was one of the hottest days of the summer (104 F when I arrived at 5P) AND the AC was broken. I have never sweat so much in my life. That was a brutal show! When loading out our equipment off the stage @ 8:30, it felt AMAZING outside - it was still 95 F). I suspect that it was in excess of 120 inside the concert hall. Mike, Dave, James, do you agree?
> 
> Still, no one took their shirts off this time though.






Rick brutha!!! welcome!

another exception to the rule - drummers, we can disrobe on stage. We're the ones working hard. we deserve to swing freely.

yeah - that symphony x was a burning hell. if it was that hot off stage, i can't imagine how hot it must have been under those damn lights.


----------



## Stitch

Rick Pierpont said:


> +1,000,000 I hate that! Its fucking pretentious and let me beat Stitchy to it... gay!



Ouch, ripped by the new guy. 

Did I displease you? Is the RG7620 sucking?


----------



## Ojinomoto

Rick Pierpont said:


> - make sure your drummer isn't hitting on all the women in the place *(that can be difficult at a prog show) *



??? What...huh...



Rick Pierpont said:


> Still, no one took their shirts off this time though.



seriously? Why?


----------



## Rick Pierpont

Oogadee Boogadee said:


> Rick brutha!!! welcome!
> 
> another exception to the rule - drummers, we can disrobe on stage. We're the ones working hard. we deserve to swing freely.
> 
> yeah - that symphony x was a burning hell. if it was that hot off stage, i can't imagine how hot it must have been under those damn lights.


Thanks dude! Can you believe it? I broke down and bought a 7?!?!?!? 

 True, I will give you that. I'm not against the disrobing of anyone. I just think its really stupid when someone comes out on stage like that and its not even hot! Work up a sweat, then take it off - you're OK. Playing at a pool party, OK. Opening up for Kamelot and starting your set shirtless --  

Hell yeah dude, it was fucking BRUTAL!!! I was sweating so much I think I lost 10 pounds!  Seriously though, I was sweating so much that my shorts kept sticking to me and I couldn't move easily at all. Even the "Pierpont Lunge" TM was nearly impossible to pull off.  As hard as work up on stage I can't imagine of you had to play that night too!



Stitch said:


> Ouch, ripped by the new guy.
> 
> Did I displease you? Is the RG7620 sucking?


Huh? That wasn't a rip on *you* dude!  You just have the habit of calling everything gay, so I was simply using your terminology.

Hell no man, you rock! I've been playing the hell out of that thing! Thanks again!

I can't wait for my new pickups to come in either. Gotta wait a few extra days though since the Air Norton 7 is on backorder (in black). As good as this thing sounds now, I can't wait to hear it with these awesome pups!



Ojinomoto said:


> ??? What...huh...



 Major sarcasm. Obviously the number of women at a prog show is usually quite low. Although, it has definitely been getting better! I did have an old drummer that used to hit on a bunch of fans wives. They LOVED him for that.



Ojinomoto said:


> seriously? Why?


I don't know! I think it was so hot and the set went by so quickly that we weren't even thinking clearly enough. Although it seriously wouldn't have helped much as hot as it was in there and at least the shirt was helping to soak it up instead of dripping even more. Yes, it was that f**king hot in there!


----------



## Ancestor

Don't quit! Playing a good live show takes a LOT of practice. This one may have been bad, the next will be better.


----------



## TomAwesome

Ancestor said:


> Don't quit! Playing a good live show takes a LOT of practice. This one may have been bad, the next will be better.



 That's a nice one to see after the show I just got back from playing.


----------



## Brewtal_Damage

because of this thread I bought an NS-2 and a TU-2, I can't stand amp hiss or tuning with volume anymore


----------



## arnoroth661

Brewtal_Damage said:


> because of this thread I bought an NS-2 and a TU-2, I can't stand amp hiss or tuning with volume anymore


----------



## Trespass

No acoustic tips? I just played accompanyment for a number of different productions (both piano and acoustic guitar), and things you DO need to remember.

1. Make sure your mic is in position or setup on stage (if possible) right in the place your going to be sitting, before you perform. (Acoustic guitar)

2. Make sure your strings are relatively new and stretched out (I went out of tune halfway through a song)

3. Don't stop even if the performers lose tempo, beat, or place (especially if your the only accompaniment)

Awesome metal tips guys


----------



## Zepp88

NEVER under and circumstances play Grandpas guitars.


----------



## Thrashmanzac

nitelightboy said:


> And let's not forget abouta band that just stands there. FRIGGIN' DO SOMETHING!!! Hear that Dream THeater?



haha yeah i agree man
you seen micheal romeo play?
he is just this pear shaped guy that stands there and wobbles!


----------



## Ojinomoto

Thrashmanzac said:


> haha yeah i agree man
> you seen micheal romeo play?
> he is just this pear shaped guy that stands there and wobbles!



I don't know. This is the first Symphony X Live performance I've ever seen (vox style is annoying) but I'd rather have some wobbling than an annoying ass singer shouting random stupid shit in the mic. 


"Keep on rockin!" =


----------



## Trespass

Zepp88 said:


> NEVER under and circumstances play Grandpas guitars.


----------



## Born_Headless

Ojinomoto said:


> I don't know. This is the first Symphony X Live performance I've ever seen (vox style is annoying) but I'd rather have some wobbling than an annoying ass singer shouting random stupid shit in the mic.
> "Keep on rockin!" =


To be fair, he was clearly drunk as fuck in that video. This was certainly not his best performance...Probably good motivation not to perform drunk....


----------



## eaeolian

Thrashmanzac said:


> haha yeah i agree man
> you seen micheal romeo play?
> he is just this pear shaped guy that stands there and wobbles!



When you play like that, you don't *have* to move.

He's also still got more stage presence than the sober Petrucci. 

WTF? Russ is hammered in that video. Not a good representation at all, IMO. He wipes the floor with pretty much everyone not named Dickinson or Dio most nights.


----------



## eaeolian

Ancestor said:


> Don't quit! Playing a good live show takes a LOT of practice. This one may have been bad, the next will be better.



Even after 25 years of doing this, it still holds true. My last show was stress hell. (Of course, when you're playing, singing, AND running sound...) The next one will be better.


----------



## arnoroth661

eaeolian said:


> Even after 25 years of doing this, it still holds true. My last show was stress hell. (Of course, when you're playing, singing, AND running sound...) The next one will be better.


----------



## TimSE

dragonforce
nuff said


----------



## Shooter

No coordinated dance moves. Leave that to the boy bands.

And how about one rule to the audience: Don't yell "FREEBIRD!", escpecially if ten other guys have already said it. I'm sick of going to shows where somebody's yellin' "freebird" after every song. It might be kinda funny the first time, but after that... If anyone does that shit while I'm playing, I'm gonna go ahead and play it... all 10-15 mins of it... in Randy Newman's voice.. just for the hell of it.


----------



## Born_Headless

Shooter said:


> And how about one rule to the audience: Don't yell "FREEBIRD!", escpecially if ten other guys have already said it. I'm sick of going to shows where somebody's yellin' "freebird" after every song. It might be kinda funny the first time, but after that... If anyone does that shit while I'm playing, I'm gonna go ahead and play it... all 10-15 mins of it... in Randy Newman's voice.. just for the hell of it.



Seriously. That shit was old before Hicks went on his tirade about it.


----------



## eleven59

Shooter said:


> And how about one rule to the audience: Don't yell "FREEBIRD!", escpecially if ten other guys have already said it. I'm sick of going to shows where somebody's yellin' "freebird" after every song. It might be kinda funny the first time, but after that... If anyone does that shit while I'm playing, I'm gonna go ahead and play it... all 10-15 mins of it... in Randy Newman's voice.. just for the hell of it.



 

Good point though, and same goes for "More Cowbell" and (less frequently though disturbingly building in frequency) "Spider Pig"


----------



## Ojinomoto

TimSE said:


> dragonforce
> nuff said




I don't get this. But then again, do I really want to?


----------



## Born_Headless

Ojinomoto said:


> I don't get this. But then again, do I really want to?



I'm guessing he was trying to say that Dragonforce are the perfect example of a bad live band or something. They *are* a tad sloppy after all.


----------



## Ojinomoto

Born_Headless said:


> I'm guessing he was trying to say that Dragonforce are the perfect example of a bad live band or something. They *are* a tad sloppy after all.



They *are?*


----------



## Born_Headless

Ojinomoto said:


> They *are?*



Well, from what I've seen at least.


----------



## Zepp88

Born_Headless said:


> Seriously. That shit was old before Hicks went on his tirade about it.



Man....wasn't that just an amazing rant?


----------



## Born_Headless

Zepp88 said:


> Man....wasn't that just an amazing rant?


Legendary. Induced more lulz than that joke ever did


----------



## Zepp88

Born_Headless said:


> Legendary. Induced more lulz than that joke ever did



Pure brutality is what it was


----------



## Born_Headless

Zepp88 said:


> Pure brutality is what it was



His voice did get pretty damn brutal. Frank Mullen didn't have shit on him near the end of it.


----------



## Zepp88

Born_Headless said:


> His voice did get pretty damn brutal. Frank Mullen didn't have shit on him near the end of it.



"HITLER HAD THE RIGHT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE WAS JUST AN UNDERACHEIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


----------



## Psychoface

BIGGEST DONT: letting your singer do the band mix


----------



## deathmask666

No dancing!!!

We played with a "metalcore/emo" band a couple of weeks ago in MD and all the singer did was dance sticking his ass in the faces of the crowd. There was a transvestite gay dude at the show that said exactly this "I'm gay but that guy is a faggot".


----------



## Zepp88

deathmask666 said:


> No dancing!!!
> 
> We played with a "metalcore/emo" band a couple of weeks ago in MD and all the singer did was dance sticking his ass in the faces of the crowd. There was a transvestite gay dude at the show that said exactly this "I'm gay but that guy is a faggot".



You sure that wasn't at the Bourbon Room/Penis Lounge?


----------



## ibznorange

dont pretend to be a gorilla, dont pretend to cast fucking spells on the audience, and dont audition for a fucking petey pablo video and twirl your shirt over your head like a fucking helicopter, and accidently hit your drummer with it and tangle it up in his cymbals, all cause youre and idiot and did another thing you shouldnt do, being a keyboardist in a band and setting entire verses and chorus' to triggers so you have nothing to do. 
oh and dont join scary kids scaring kids. they suck live
unless you want esp to endorse you, which i dont get


----------



## deathmask666

Zepp88 said:


> You sure that wasn't at the Bourbon Room/Penis Lounge?



No it was at The Black Hole...It was actually a cool little club...Its just too bad they let shitty bands play there...


----------



## InTheRavensName

Zepp88 said:


> NEVER under and circumstances play Grandpas guitars.



Awaken, Awaken!


----------



## Mattmc74

nitelightboy said:


> Band members getting totally obliterated prior to hitting the stage. Drugs and alcohol in moderation may help you get up there, but go too far and you're gonna play like crap (even though you hear yourself as being the next guitar god).



^^^^there it is right there^^^Could not have said it better myself!!!!


----------



## Edroz

If your band sucks, don't wear a shirt that says "Fuck Your Band!"


----------



## eleven59

Edroz said:


> If your band sucks, don't wear a shirt that says "Fuck Your Band!"



Is it ok to wear a shirt that says "My Band Sucks" so at least the audience can get some small entertainment from that alone?


----------



## Groff

Learn how to help other members set up their gear. It takes me two seconds to set my amp up and connect everything... So I usually help my drummer set up.

Don't sit around with your thumbs up your butt, or play your guitar. 

I hate it when people turn their amps up and start wanking while everyone else is setting up their shit...  Help set up so you don't push the show back a half hour asshole!


----------



## Edroz

eleven59 said:


> Is it ok to wear a shirt that says "My Band Sucks" so at least the audience can get some small entertainment from that alone?



now that's perfectly acceptable


----------



## jjjsssxxx

Regor said:


> And we've found that opening with a cover is a GREAT way to get the crowd to come up to the stage when you're playing. Every time we open with a Pantera, Metallica, Megadeth, etc. people come running up to the stage.



They come running like cattle. I was in a band that pulled that crap years ago. When I hear a band play a cover song these days, especially open with one, even if it's well played, it makes me wish i had a flame thrower. Especially if it's a Pantera/Metallica/Slayer song. If the best thing people say about a band is "dude, they played Slayer" then I'm not interested.


----------



## zimbloth

Denied by Christ said:


> They come running like cattle. I was in a band that pulled that crap years ago. When I hear a band play a cover song these days, especially open with one, even if it's well played, it makes me wish i had a flame thrower. Especially if it's a Pantera/Metallica/Slayer song. If the best thing people say about a band is "dude, they played Slayer" then I'm not interested.



I kind of agree. I'm really against playing cover songs. I think a more clever way to go about it would be to perhaps add in a 'cover riff' like in as an intro or outro to one of your own songs. Type O Negative does this live all the time and it sounds so cool. Out of nowhere BOOM there's the intro to [insert Black Sabbath song here].

Bands who want to do cover songs though, that's fine. So I wouldn't list it as a "dont", as its just my opinion. But I do agree with DBC's sentiments. I'm not looking to impress anybody by how well I can play Change of Seasons or Reign in Blood. I'd rather people either love or hate my music and live with that. I can play along to my favorite bands on my own time


----------



## Edroz

don't get me started on the covers thing . the last show i played, one of the other bands decided to do a Pantera medley which felt like it went on for an hour  . seriously, leave covers to cover bands/ tribute bands.

if you have to use someone elses songs to get a reaction from a crowd, it means YOUR material sucks and you have some work to do.


----------



## Ojinomoto

^+1


----------



## eaeolian

Edroz said:


> if you have to use someone elses songs to get a reaction from a crowd, it means YOUR material sucks and you have some work to do.



Eh, that's one side of the coin. The other is that a well-placed, well-done cover might make you memorable to certain segments of the crowd. Not everyone responds well to a band in the less-than-ideal live situations.

However, a ten-minute Pantera medley is bad.


----------



## noodles

Edroz said:


> if you have to use someone elses songs to get a reaction from a crowd, it means YOUR material sucks and you have some work to do.



However, if ending your set with a cover that the crowd loves causes a spike in merch sales, then covers suddenly don't seem so stupid.


----------



## Edroz

noodles said:


> However, if ending your set with a cover that the crowd loves causes a spike in merch sales, then covers suddenly don't seem so stupid.




you prove my point, you're still relying on someone elses material to get a reaction.

this is just my opinion on the matter. i think it's far more rewarding to get noticed using your OWN material.

if you're just talking about making money, playing original music is the stupidest (is that even a real word ) thing you can do .

eh, using another bands music to sell and promote my own bands music/ merch is really lame IMO. smart in a business sense though.


----------



## Ojinomoto

What do you guys feel on bands doing covers of songs but with their own spin on it? 
Bulb did this cover of Corridor of Chameleons (The Mesh Forum Music) and it's a nice twist on the original.
Hell, Mushroomhead did a cover of Prince's "When Doves Cry" and it actually was done pretty good IMO. 

Totally random shit like that makes for an interesting show.


----------



## Edroz

if you can cover a song and put your own spin on it and truly make it your own, then yeah, i think that rules... i may be contradicting myself here . 

i'm a little biased on the issue, as i've witnessed far too many half assed and poorly executed covers in my time...


----------



## Ojinomoto

Edroz said:


> i'm a little biased on the issue, as i've witnessed far too many half assed and poorly executed covers in my time...



Unfortunately, I have to agree. 
Now that I've think about it, I've never heard a badass cover live that interested me. Then again, I live in a hellhole so...


----------



## ibznorange

my old band did really mixed up covers, and it was great. i'd never being willing to play out a cover unless we really put our own shit in it. Just so you know where we came from, My brother plays like satch and vai solos, and his rythm is like a mix of chevelle and blues traveler. my music always ends up sounding alot like ben harper/jack johnson or tool meets foo fighters, no matter how hard i try. Tommy, the drummer was a pure alice in chains type of grungy music guy, and Moe (guitarist) got legally kicked out of egypt for refusing to quit playing metallica songs live. We played hard rock, alternative shit. nothing too metal, but we occasionally did do the standard + b really heavy songs. So what did we cover? The eagles - those shoes. Pink Floyd - young lust. Fragma - Miracle. thats right. I need a miracle, i need a miracle 80s dance music. And occasionally wed do some face to face song. disconnected i think it was. My brother and i specifically refused (and still do) to cover anything that was too "in our genre", as we didnt want to just cover something. if we were gonna play anything of anyone elses, it was still going to be ours, and BASED on someone elses. Sadly that band never got to gig out other than a few house party jams, but oh well. My brother and i still have all the material we wrote

I think thats a good rule for covers. never cover anything too similar to your own music


----------



## eaeolian

Edroz said:


> if you can cover a song and put your own spin on it and truly make it your own, then yeah, i think that rules... i may be contradicting myself here .
> 
> i'm a little biased on the issue, as i've witnessed far too many half assed and poorly executed covers in my time...



Well, yes, then it will suck - however, odds are the band sucks to begin with in that case.

Division still usually ends our shows opening for nationals with a cover. Why? Two reasons: If you pick well (Pantera or old Metallica, for example), people buy you drinks , and 2.) since we're the last on before the tour 99% of the time, it helps grab the "latecomers" that like to miss locals, and maybe they get there early enough to see you do your own stuff next time. Playing with tours is all about building audience, and it's been pretty successful for us.

Plus, it's fun to see the reactions if you play something people don't expect, like when we were doing "Damage, Inc.", which is not one of the "usual" Metallica covers.


----------



## eaeolian

Edroz said:


> this is just my opinion on the matter. i think it's far more rewarding to get noticed using your OWN material.



The two are not mutually exclusive. I know what you're saying, though, and in a lot of cases you're correct.



Edroz said:


> if you're just talking about making money, playing original music is the stupidest (is that even a real word ) thing you can do .



That would by why I'm in a cover band. 



Edroz said:


> eh, using another bands music to sell and promote my own bands music/ merch is really lame IMO. smart in a business sense though.



Depends. If they buy your CD and come out next time and know the words to your songs, haven't you accomplished exactly what you're talking about - getting people into your own stuff?

We could argue this ad infinitum. I've been on both sides of the coin, and it's simply a matter of choosing what's best for the situation. Bands that play two originals and 8 covers, though, have no business opening for national tours, IMO.


----------



## Chris

noodles said:


> However, if ending your set with a cover that the crowd loves causes a spike in merch sales, then covers suddenly don't seem so stupid.



Totally agree.

These guys are friends of mine. Their first album was (imo) brilliant, and got next to no recognition. They did a cover of Rebel Yell, and since have toured with Tesla, Geoff Tate, and lately did a ton of dates with Chris Daughtry.

It helped that the cover was fucking awesome, but every time I saw them live that song got a massive crowd reaction and packed their merch booth.

(note that their website is down, so the myspace is kinda hosed. It never crashed when I ran it! )


----------



## Edroz

Chris said:


> Totally agree.
> 
> These guys are friends of mine. Their first album was (imo) brilliant, and got next to no recognition. They did a cover of Rebel Yell, and since have toured with Tesla, Geoff Tate, and lately did a ton of dates with Chris Daughtry.
> 
> It helped that the cover was fucking awesome, but every time I saw them live that song got a massive crowd reaction and packed their merch booth.
> 
> (note that their website is down, so the myspace is kinda hosed. It never crashed when I ran it! )





eaeolian said:


> The two are not mutually exclusive. I know what you're saying, though, and in a lot of cases you're correct.
> 
> 
> 
> That would by why I'm in a cover band.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends. If they buy your CD and come out next time and know the words to your songs, haven't you accomplished exactly what you're talking about - getting people into your own stuff?
> 
> We could argue this ad infinitum. I've been on both sides of the coin, and it's simply a matter of choosing what's best for the situation. Bands that play two originals and 8 covers, though, have no business opening for national tours, IMO.





eaeolian said:


> Well, yes, then it will suck - however, odds are the band sucks to begin with in that case.
> 
> Division still usually ends our shows opening for nationals with a cover. Why? Two reasons: If you pick well (Pantera or old Metallica, for example), people buy you drinks , and 2.) since we're the last on before the tour 99% of the time, it helps grab the "latecomers" that like to miss locals, and maybe they get there early enough to see you do your own stuff next time. Playing with tours is all about building audience, and it's been pretty successful for us.
> 
> Plus, it's fun to see the reactions if you play something people don't expect, like when we were doing "Damage, Inc.", which is not one of the "usual" Metallica covers.



 never thought this subject would spark such a debate. you really did put it best, Mike, by saying it's a two sided coin, and i totally agree with every point you make . then it's just a matter of what side of the coin you fall on...

i'm no stranger to playing live, i've done full US and european tours with 3 different original bands (Insatanity, Mortal Decay, Pyrexia) in the last 5 years or so. i just pride myself on the fact that myself and my bandmates relied on no one elses material but our own (i know, i know, yay for me ). believe me, i haven't recieved any substantial money or notoriety from original music. but hey, if that's what i aimed for, i'd be playing in a cover band for sure .

i remember one show in particular with one of my older bands (Body Part Trophy Case), where we opened our set with the first minute or so of "Dr. Feelgood" , purely just for comedic value (mainly for ourselves) since we were a slayer/pantera esque thrash band. it was TOTALLY unexpected and got a few laughs but it was nowhere near the highlight or focal point of our set. covers like this i think can be fun, get a reaction but still not be the only thing people will want to buy your merch for or remember you by.

i'm really not trying to knock any original bands approach to playing covers. it's just something that i feel should be well thought out, and done with some integrity (or just done as a joke ) not something like "hey, let's learn raining blood for tomorrow's show so we can sell an extra shirt and i can score!"

rant over


----------



## mindstorm

eaeolian said:


> However, Pantera is bad.



fixed!


----------



## Ojinomoto

ibznorange said:


> I think thats a good rule for covers. never cover anything too similar to your own music



I never would have thought of that. That's a real good idea.


----------



## ibznorange

oh it works great. It really makes for interesting shit. Look at the deftones Bsides album. Fuck. they cover Sade, Morissey, The Coctou twins, Lyndard Skinnard, The Cure, and Duran Duran and it goes super awesome. The helmet cover? "eh" at best. 
Try rocking out shit. Seriously. cheesy 80's dance music is so rythmic. if youre good with chord inversions and have awesome rythm on a guitar, you can floor an entire crowd with a song thats kinda similar to some shit from 20 years ago, with the same lyrics. Covers are fine. just not copies. there is IMO, an important difference

as far as finances, you know what annoys me? tucsons biggest local band, is a poison cover band. fucking poison. they cover poison. what is that


----------



## Edroz

ibznorange said:


> you know what annoys me? tucsons biggest local band, is a poison cover band. fucking poison. they cover poison. what is that




 there's a poison tribute band around my ways called Pose'in (yes you read the name right ), they actually used to be in the same rehearsal spot i was in... i think the thing that disturbed me the most was that their singer would even show up to practice ala Brett Michaels circa '87 - '88


----------



## ibznorange

thats terrible! ha, like that band the darkness. ever see them live? Ultra Vneck zebra jumpsuit FTL


----------



## John_Strychnine

Letting your vocalist talk in all the clean sections of your songs. This is a no, even if the crowd start to look a bit uninterested, it's better them doing that then your vocalist talking a lot of shit that the crowd can't hear anyway.

Vocalists talking in general really, unless its something useful like merch, cds etc, tell them to stfu.

Don't talk to band members on stage, you should know you're setlist/what you're doing.

Don't over move. Over moving on stage to your music is just gay. 
DEP get away with it as their music is crazy, but just going spazzy if you're music is indie is not cool.

Don't get mashed before you play at all, ive done it once, it was god damn dreadful.

Water on stage is a must, not beer. Beer dehydrates you more and you get more worn out before your set is finished especially if you move alot/head bang alot. beer AND water together is cool though.

Don't turn up to a gig without a fucking guitar strap, we've had loads of people ask us for straps, id rather let them sit down.
Don't turn up to a gig without a fucking speaker lead.
Don't turn up to a gig without a fucking lead.

This shit pisses me off.


----------



## Lozek

John_Strychnine said:


> Vocalists talking in general really, unless its something useful like merch, cds etc, tell them to stfu.



Depends if the frontman has a personality or not. Vocalists that say nothing because they are too shy, or vocalists that say nothing because they want to appear dark/brooding are both pretty lame. 

As is a vocalist who does talk but says stuff that he thinks is 'funny', or who apologises. Or goes through the standard vocalist patter because they 'should' (merch at the stand, www.Myspace.com/blistering_anal_cornucopia.com etc). 

In fact, you know what, vocalists who mention the internet at all. If you're good enough, I'll remember your name and google you. It's not hard.

And thus endeth the lesson in how ridiculously hard it is to find a vocalist who can actually 'front' a band. All of this works and none of it works, dependant on who is delivering the message. Hence why most small bands are doomed from the start.


----------



## noodles

Chris said:


> These guys are friends of mine.



Those guys are also a rock solid live act, cool guys to hang out with, and drank half my band under the table.  

In my previous band, I did a couple of shows at Jaxx with them. They were going to bring us up to New York to do a couple shows with them, but we broke up before it ever happened. Now they're probably a bit to big to be calling in favors.


----------



## blues-core

ibznorange said:


> thats terrible! ha, like that band the darkness. ever see them live? Ultra Vneck zebra jumpsuit FTL



Thats why they kicked him out/he left and the rest of the band went on to form Stone Gods


----------



## omentremor

On covers, i saw a really badass cover of Bulls On Parade (RATM) by 'The Warriors'. It was done as a full on hardcore song with throat tearing screaming. It was really fuckin cool to watch.

I think a definitive no is corpsepaint in a pub gig. Purely hilarious looking.


----------



## eleven59

blues-core said:


> Thats why they kicked him out/he left and the rest of the band went on to form Stone Gods



That is _SIGNIFICANTLY_ better. 



omentremor said:


> On covers, i saw a really badass cover of Bulls On Parade (RATM) by 'The Warriors'. It was done as a full on hardcore song with throat tearing screaming. It was really fuckin cool to watch.



There's a local metal band with a girl singer that does the same thing with "The Trooper" (Iron Maiden, as if anyone didn't know).


----------



## DarkKnight369

I saw something this weekend that made me laugh but was actually really sad. My band was playing another band's CD release party up in a south Chicago suburb. The first band to take the stage seemed quite amateur. Crappy gear, crappy wireless, plus they just looked awkward on stage.

Anyway, a few songs into the set the bass player (who looks like he didn't want to be there from the start) pulls out his wallet and starts counting his money mid song. He just stopped playing bass and counted his money. I was in awe. Two songs later, someone brings him a cheeseburger and he stops playing again in the middle of a song to eat the thing.

I mean, if you aren't going to at least act like you care, why should the audience?


----------



## Ojinomoto

^ That right there is a whole new low. How old did they look?


----------



## Naren

DarkKnight369 said:


> I saw something this weekend that made me laugh but was actually really sad. My band was playing another band's CD release party up in a south Chicago suburb. The first band to take the stage seemed quite amateur. Crappy gear, crappy wireless, plus they just looked awkward on stage.
> 
> Anyway, a few songs into the set the bass player (who looks like he didn't want to be there from the start) pulls out his wallet and starts counting his money mid song. He just stopped playing bass and counted his money. I was in awe. Two songs later, someone brings him a cheeseburger and he stops playing again in the middle of a song to eat the thing.
> 
> I mean, if you aren't going to at least act like you care, why should the audience?



 Woooow. If you were a comedy band, it might work if you had little breaks where the bass wouldn't play. For example, the guitar and bass play a little riff and then it's just drums and in that break, the bass player takes a bite out of a cheeseburger and then starts playing again right where the guitar comes in. Then in the interval takes another bite out of the cheeseburger. That would be kind of funny. What that guy was doing was just ridiculous. In fact, I would be annoyed at my bass player if he wasn't playing during practice. I'd ask him what's wrong. Live? Eating a cheeseburger? Counting your money? If the dude didn't want to be there that much, why hasn't he quit the band yet? Geeez.


----------



## DarkKnight369

Yeah the band was awful. They were pretty amateur. The sound guys would set up stuff, then go drink at the bar. Well the singer decided his mic was feeding back too much (because he wasn't holding it right) so he grabbed one of the backup vocal mics. They were turned down as they should be, so you couldn't hear him for the second half of their set, not that it was a bad thing.


----------



## Shreddy Krueger

Rule # 324 :

Speaking from personal experience, nothing positive can come from drinking multiple bottles of MAD DOG 20/20 prior to your set...


----------



## JJ Rodriguez

Don't do what Donnie Don't does.


----------



## 7 Dying Trees

I can't believe this thread is still going!


----------



## Edroz

7 Dying Trees said:


> I can't believe this thread is still going!




why not? it's a good thread man


----------



## ire_works

don't do a wall of death when there no stage and you're playing at floor level with people.

i learned this 2 weeks ago  the hard way.


----------



## right_to_rage

If you are playing in front of an audience who has never heard for you before don't forget to say the name of the next song.

Don't forget to look at your band mates, crowds love when bands look like their jamming out *together*.

Don't wear the same shirt as your band mates unless you have some congruent, but good theme going (like a band of death metal snuggies, or zoro masks).

Don't be afraid to give out free shit to people in the front row, even if you yourself got it for free.

Try your best not to trip over chords, passionately kneeling lead singers, or microphones. I have done them all.

Don't drop your pick mid-solo, done that too.


----------



## MorbidTravis

dont battle with the monitor engineer for more sound. you can and will piss them off if you try hard enough.


----------



## metulkult

Start masturbating in the middle of a song


----------



## jaretthale78

metulkult said:


> Start masturbating in the middle of a song


 /thread


----------



## Soubi7string

Zepp88 said:


> NEVER under and circumstances play Grandpas guitars.



If you were a woman I'd make love to you feverishly


----------



## metal_sam14

Dont wear your own bands shirt on stage! I fucking hate it!


----------



## Cadavuh

^Dave Mustaine comes to mind


----------



## Soubi7string

lmao he has done that hasn't he?

don't act like you're slayer in a venue the size of your thumb
cause even if you do no one is going to act like you are.

Choreographed windmills and ass squats
I hate it, choreographed anything I hate it

singers, none of the running in place with your hand out acting like you're a wimpy ass football player

bands...you play a seven you better PLAY EVERY STRING
stop giving the 7 string a bad name and stop riding JUST the top 3 strings

don't start a song over if ya'll fuck up
just keep going or improvise

if you have a burrito on stage stick it on the headstock and eat as you play

don't piss yourself on stage

don't try playing bass with your penis
even if it IS a deformed child


----------



## DaveCarter

A few gems from the band I just quit...


Do not try to submix the band down to a stereo pair from the stage. Thats for the sound engineer to do from the mixing desk since he can actually hear your FOH sound, you cant. He has the desk, its his job, not yours!

When everyone who knows anything about the basics of live sound agrees with the above statement, dont ignore them insisting that you know best!

Do not attempt to use a video projector that hasnt been used in over 10 years, without actually testing it first. If you dont have time to test it out, dont use it. On stage at an important gig with an audience thats waiting for you to start, is not the time or the place to try and do this.

If your band use samples with a click track, make sure your drummer is actually getting the click before you start the show. If its your job to plug his in-ears cable in, actually remember to do it.

If youre the drummer in such a band, do not stop playing. Ever. Whatever parts of the kit fall apart or need adjusting, do not, fucking, stop.

If youve designed a stupidly complicated live setup involving a laptop and multiple soundcards, then its your responsibility to make sure that it actually works, and doesnt cause problems at every single gig and the majority of rehearsals.

Do not turn up to a gig with a 10ft cable and complain that you cant really go anywhere on stage. Your problem, not mine.

Do not continue to do the above for almost a year, until the band eventually just give you a 20ft cable because you were too useless to go and buy one yourself.

Learn to tune your own fucking instrument, its not my job.

If you dont have your own transport and/or equipment then its your responsibility to make sure there's actually going to be equipment there for you to use. Dont assume you can just turn up and plug in to someone else's amp without having asked them first.

Do not try to run any stage mics through soundcards and processors before they hit the desk if youve not had a chance to properly test this out beforehand. No time to test it? Then dont do it.

If the band has agreed on a specific look or dress code then make sure everyone actually does it. Thats, everyone. Not everyone that can be bothered, everyone. 


Thats just a taster of life in my ex-band. Add in a similar list for rehearsals, and another list for band promotion, and youre starting to get a rough idea of why I eventually quit 


Oh and one from the band before that:

Do not allow some fuckwit soundengineer to try and DI your guitar signal before it hits your amp, and use this clean DI as your FOH feed instead of micing the cab like youre FUCKING WELL SUPPOSED TO DO!!! Moron....

Enough ranting for one day


----------



## JohnIce

Although it's not incredibly essential, bringing a backup guitar and a few cables (1/4" and XLR, Midi if you use it) is a very good thing. Bringing an extra guitar can be a hassle but if something does fuck up at least you know you have a guitar you're comfortable with, it's already onstage with you, and you don't have to bother any other band to lend you their gear.

This is especially important if you use a non-average tuning or an ERG... I once lent out my standard-tuned PRS Custom to a guitarist who broke his string, and when I got it back it was tuned to something like G#ADGBD... so I have to spend the first minutes of gig-time tuning back up and getting it to settle again, then while we were playing the band left and I never got so much as a thanks. 

If you tune to standard and know the other bands on the bill, fine, leave out the backup guitar... but borrowing a complete stranger's guitar and tuning it to shit is not cool.


----------



## Soubi7string

JohnIce said:


> borrowing a complete stranger's guitar and tuning it to shit is not cool.



+1000000000000000000000000000 
on that one


----------



## AChRush1349

nitelightboy said:


> And let's not forget abouta band that just stands there. FRIGGIN' DO SOMETHING!!! Hear that Dream THeater?



They are awesome live! I always see jordan get out the keytar and jam up front with John squared lol


----------



## scottro202

If you break a string mid-solo, play the solo with 5 (well, on this forum 6) strings. If you do this, and have a floyd sans tremolo, panic (Actually, whammy squeals...)

Also, not putting a toaster in a bathtub...onstage...don't do it


----------



## Soubi7string

put the cable in around the strap so if you BEGIN to step on it you don't yank it out and its out of your way.

adjust your strap to where you can PLAY not to where it looks "cool"
I could care less,I wanna hear the quality,not see you playing with yourself


----------



## CrushingAnvil

I don't know if this has been said in all these pages but:

If you can't do windmills and play the guitar/keep balance and not fall over after 20 seconds of straight thrashing yet?...DON'T FUCKING TRY IT, MKAY?

This hasn't happened to me but I know It has happened to many people.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

CrushingAnvil said:


> I don't know if this has been said in all these pages but:
> 
> If you can't do windmills and play the guitar/keep balance and not fall over after 20 seconds of straight thrashing yet?...DON'T FUCKING TRY IT, MKAY?
> 
> This hasn't happened to me but I know It has happened to many people.




That happened to me too... unfortunately it was in front of 2000 people.  

This thread was worth the bump too. There's a lot that's been said that's essential. Also:

Try to have your backup guitar to have similar specs to your main guitar. It may not be much but it makes a big difference depending on your playing style. My band's album launch, I broke a string on my Xiphos and used my Les Paul as a backup, which felt really awkward on certain songs. This curse happened again when we opened for Testament last night , but my backup this time was one of my RGs so it felt much better. 

That said, try to have a backup contingency for everything if possible.


----------



## chucknorrishred

^ srry but whats the name of ur band? got a link or something?


----------



## jymellis

Lozek said:


> One of my pet hates on smaller shows is guitarists/singers that insist on getting down on the floor with the crowd.


 
this has always been one of my favorites


----------



## Soubi7string

chucknorrishred said:


> ^ srry but whats the name of ur band? got a link or something?



Yeah my brain went: lol wut


----------



## xtrustisyoursx

metulkult said:


> Stop masturbating in the middle of a song



fixed


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

chucknorrishred said:


> ^ srry but whats the name of ur band? got a link or something?



4ARM // THE OFFICIAL 4SITE

4ARM on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads

It's in my profile.


----------



## jymellis

metulkult said:


> Start masturbating in the middle of a song


 
gwar
ggallin
manson
madonna


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

^ ^ Don't forget Lil Kim.


----------



## Fuel

metulkult said:


> Start masturbating in the middle of a song


Someone tell that to Rusty Cooley.


----------



## synrgy

I'm not about to read 11 pages, so this may be a repeat, but:

STOP taking so God damn long to break down your gear after your set. You're cutting into the next band's stage time. I haven't played a gig (with a band) in more than a decade, but every time I go to a show and watch some douche of a drummer stopping to have a 20 minute conversation while he's supposed to be disassembling his 50 piece kit, it just makes me want to deck him as a favor to whatever band is up next.


----------



## NickDowe

Groff said:


> You know what I hate?
> Singers who get all pissed off at people who aren't standing right up front in their face. Now it's one thing to say "I wanna see some movement!" or "Hey, lets all get up and mosh!" But when they go up and be a complete ASSHOLE about it, it's just fucking stupid. For example: "Hey!! You stupid mother fuckers at the bar sitting down! Get your drunk lazy asses up here! I wanna see you mother fuckers moving right now!!" *Crowd simultaneously thinks this guy is an asshole and stops paying attention* "Hey! I'm talking to you! Get the fuck up!"
> 
> ...Nothing makes me want to NOT pay attention more.




Oh my f'ing god!!! My singer is a complete cunt and he does this at every show even though i have told him not to. Which is why after this last show i am kicking him out... that and the entire show he kept stepping on my pedal board and knocking me onto a clean channel during shred parts.. and he even ran into the head stock of my guitar knocking it out of tune when his face hit the tuning pegs... 3 years of playing with this guy and i finally can't take it anymore.


----------



## synrgy

Agreed. Any time a band member tries to force crowd participation is lame-sauce in my eyes.

"Put your hands in the air!!" *I stick up my middle finger*

"I wanna see everybody move!!" *I 'move' straight to the exit*

"Put your hands together!!" *I don't clap for the rest of the set*

"I want everybody to sing this next part with me!!" *I go find something to drink and probably spend the rest of the set outside smoking, or something*

Few things turn me off more than somebody telling me how to listen to/enjoy music/musical performance.

*note* All of the above are probably fine if we're talking about some GIANT festival with THOUSANDS of attendants, but when you're in a dive bar playing to 20 people, knock that shit off. Seriously.


----------



## meisterjager

SplinteredDave said:


> Rant


 
Holy shit, I'm looking forward to seeing your band this weekend


----------



## DaveCarter

Lol yup, fucking hope it all holds together!! Rehearsal ran smoothly today though, and got another tomorrow so we should be fine  Then Im out!! XD


----------



## McKay

Regor said:


> I'm sorry to say you've got shitty bands then. Because my band covers songs great (Check out our MySpace videos if you don't believe me). And we've found that opening with a cover is a GREAT way to get the crowd to come up to the stage when you're playing. Every time we open with a Pantera, Metallica, Megadeth, etc. people come running up to the stage. Then they stay there for the rest of the set. And we like to finish with a good cover too, which gets them even more interested into you. Last show we did, we opened with "...And Justice For All" and ended with "Raining Blood".



Covers can fuck off. Local bands playing covers does two things. 1) It makes your originals sound like shit by comparison because you're playing likely one of _____'s _best _songs and 2) Halving the chance of being remembered, because people will just remember the cover. Every _single_ local band I've seen that played a cover, I can just remember the cover.


----------



## B36arin

I also hate when bands fill up their set with covers. Especially when it's a band that I've paid to see because of their own original material.


----------



## avenger

synrgy said:


> Agreed. Any time a band member tries to force crowd participation is lame-sauce in my eyes.
> 
> "Put your hands in the air!!" *I stick up my middle finger*
> 
> "I wanna see everybody move!!" *I 'move' straight to the exit*
> 
> "Put your hands together!!" *I don't clap for the rest of the set*
> 
> "I want everybody to sing this next part with me!!" *I go find something to drink and probably spend the rest of the set outside smoking, or something*
> 
> Few things turn me off more than somebody telling me how to listen to/enjoy music/musical performance.
> 
> *note* All of the above are probably fine if we're talking about some GIANT festival with THOUSANDS of attendants, but when you're in a dive bar playing to 20 people, knock that shit off. Seriously.


Not trying to start shit but you kind of sound like a douche. Heaven forbid a front man try to get people into the bands live show. 

So of the craziest shows I have been to have been 20 people in a dive bar. Welcome to the underground.


----------



## rahul_mukerji

Ever had your lead singer show up 10 mins after the band has gone on stage (and I mean started playing, not just setup) because ..... wait for it .... they decided at the last second to burn their *SOLO CD* to distribute at the band's gig ...... 

Also had 2 members disappear exactly when the band had to go on. The Drummer and I spent 10 mins playing solo material (and you can just guess how that went) while shouting out the singers and bassists name to the public.  .... and that was supposed to be our biggest gig  and you really do not want to know why they disappeared 

DEAD SERIOUS .... yes both those happened to my band 

So *ALWAYS* have your singer bound to the hood of your car when you drive out 

Always chain your members to the stage with concrete blocks 10 mins prior to going on stage.


----------



## marky

nitelightboy said:


> And let's not forget abouta band that just stands there. FRIGGIN' DO SOMETHING!!! Hear that Dream THeater?




 Definitely! Don't just STAND there!


----------



## SargeantVomit

avenger said:


> Not trying to start shit but you kind of sound like a douche. Heaven forbid a front man try to get people into the bands live show.
> 
> So of the craziest shows I have been to have been 20 people in a dive bar. Welcome to the underground.



Front men should always be trying to get the crowd into the show and some of the best shows I've been to have been in dives like that, what the previous poster was saying was forced crowd participation is dumb. If people are digging the band they'll be up front, you don't need to remind them they can come close. If people want to sing along they will. 

It's the WORST when a frontman complains about the "lack of energy" in the crowd like it's the crowds fucking job to keep him entertained and not the other way around.

Slayer and Megadeth played near here a couple weeks ago and I heard each of them only talked to the audience twice. Once to say thank you for coming and that they were just going to let the music do the talking and once to say thanks and goodnight.


----------



## metal_sam14

2 members of my band stole my car while drunk.
then attacked me when I threatened to call the cops
BIG DONT!

EDIT: just realized that had nothing to do with live performance. our drummer forgets simple song structures on stage and just plays whatever the fuck he wants. stupid cunt


----------



## Soubi7string

Bloody_Inferno said:


> 4ARM // THE OFFICIAL 4SITE
> 
> 4ARM on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads
> 
> It's in my profile.



Oh yeah I added y'all way back when
Good shit


Just because your fav band sets their sound a certain way doesn't mean set it the same way.I'm reffering to my drummer telling to turn my amp down when everyone else in the band says the levels are good and then he goes on a rant on how this local band coat hanger abortion turns their rhythm guitarist WAAAAY down.
Also if you are said person or anyone in fact,
Don't,touch,the fuckin,amp.PERIOD.


----------



## Lon

synrgy said:


> Agreed. Any time a band member tries to force crowd participation is lame-sauce in my eyes.
> 
> "Put your hands in the air!!" *I stick up my middle finger*
> 
> "I wanna see everybody move!!" *I 'move' straight to the exit*
> 
> "Put your hands together!!" *I don't clap for the rest of the set*
> 
> "I want everybody to sing this next part with me!!" *I go find something to drink and probably spend the rest of the set outside smoking, or something*
> 
> Few things turn me off more than somebody telling me how to listen to/enjoy music/musical performance.
> 
> *note* All of the above are probably fine if we're talking about some GIANT festival with THOUSANDS of attendants, but when you're in a dive bar playing to 20 people, knock that shit off. Seriously.


i completely agree with you, but i have to say i never crowd participate except pogo... and in my experience some people just NEED to be encouraged, the most of the audience totally digs this "comeon do that thing with us and the drummer will try to hit the bassdrum in time with you"... its just crowd pleasing


----------



## synrgy

SargeantVomit said:


> like it's the crowds fucking job to keep him entertained and not the other way around.



That was the point I was getting at. Well put.

I don't mind a frontman who has energy. What I mind is _generic_ energy. It's one thing to tell an audience _who is already singing along with you_ that you think it sounds beautiful or whatever, but it's another thing entirely to try and _force_ the audience to sing along with you.

I believe in organic moments rather than manufactured ones. I just think that the whole "Put your hands in the air!!" thing is just SO fucking DONE.

It's a contextual thing, too. I don't want to hear a singer tell a 'crowd' of 20 people the same thing he would tell a crowd of 20,000 people. That's just stupid, and more or less proves to me that they're not performing for the moment, but for the 'glory'.

When I saw [a band I've decided to not name who has some popularity around here], there were *multiple* moments that felt EXACTLY like what SargeantVomit was talking about in the quote I copied above. In brutal honesty, of the few hundred in attendance, *maybe* 50 people in the venue seemed half interested in the band. Still, the singer kept saying shit like "Come on, I wanna see a circle pit!!" (there was no 'pit' to begin with, and obviously no circle pit formed after he requested it) or "This is our home town, I wanna see everybody bounce!! Bounce!! Bounce!!"; (maybe 3 people jumped up and down a couple of times), etc etc. The majority of the crowd was standing there with their arms folded (which I hate just as much, believe me), because frankly, he was just kind of making an ass of himself. If an audience doesn't like you or hasn't made up their mind if they like you or not, barking instructions at them isn't going to help you win their adoration.

What I'm saying is, bands win me over by playing really well; not by giving me explicit instructions for how I should participate in the show. It's like somebody watches a U2 Live DVD and thinks that just because Bono can work a crowd of 100,000 people that they can use the exact same tricks on a crowd of 20. It just doesn't work that way. Understand where you are and who you're playing for.

By the way, I think one of you gave me the wrong rep for my last comment. People don't usually give me _positive_ rep for being "spiteful".


----------



## thefpb2

nitelightboy said:


> And let's not forget abouta band that just stands there. FRIGGIN' DO SOMETHING!!! Hear that Dream THeater?


Cheers


----------



## slayerrulesyo

Don't show up 2 minutes before sound check is supposed to happen, and THEN unload...

or if you're opening...show up early to the gig, 30 minutes AT LEAST. Last show I played, we showed up an hour early, didn't sound check till our set actually started because the venue didn't have anything plugged up......

^If this happens, don't complain and bitch to the venue WHILE you're playing...seen this before...

DO know your set time, if you need to ask how much time you have, don't be shy. It's polite to all the other bands playing after you.

DON'T Be too loud. Nothing I hate worse than a Spider III cranked louder than the vocals...dude your shit sounds terrible   0

If at all possible.... with a lot of pedals...GET A PEDAL BOARD. That way everything's out, plugged in, and all you need to plug up is 2 cables. 

DON'T wait 'til you're up on stage to see if your amp or guitar is gonna work. If you think/know your gear has a problem, get it checked out before the show...bring tubes, fuses, you never know what could go wrong.

If you miss out on a part of a song, go with a flow. The musics gotta flow. I hate watching bands that clearly haven't practiced in ages and it's just awkward to see the play...sounds like a broken record with the starting and the stopping... or don't stop playing...shouldn't have played the song if yall weren't 110% beforehand.



I can't stress this enough HELP OUT YOUR BAND MEMBERS. It's a team effort, work as a team, have fun doing so, and don't be a dick after the show and get others to help tear down your equipment and look at your drummer for half an hour while he takes his stuff apart. Take everything off stage, put it in one place, then worry about putting it all up... If you play with a fairly easy rig, it's very nice to help others out. They might buy you food afterwards.  and that way yall tear down sooner and you have more time to talk to fans/people at the show







and finally...get into the music! How many of yall have seen Periphery play? During bulb's solos....crazy movement, faces, looks like he's really enjoying it. Have some fucking fun, it should be more of you wanting to play and have fun than just playing and getting it over with...it's your passion..


----------



## NickDowe

Yeah so we just kicked our singer out 3 hours before our show on thursday for the above mentioned behavior... the crowd was awesome... we had the best show ever and sold about 11 EPs and 3 shirts. Not one time did we call the crowd "fuckers" or told them they "better move their fucking asses" and the crowd was happy about that. I come to find out today that our X singer just removed all of our Youtube videos.... not that i care. 

I agree with getting the crowd into it even if your playing to 20 people in a dive bar, I just disagree with using profanity or telling people what they need to do. You catch more flies with honey.... we were the headliner at a bar on thursday and we played to about 25 of our fans and another 20 that stuck around just to see us and we thanked everyone for coming out and then told them to give thereselves a round of applause for sticking around and getting waisted with us... they went apeshit!


----------



## NickDowe

slayerrulesyo said:


> and finally...get into the music! How many of yall have seen Periphery play? During bulb's solos....crazy movement, faces, looks like he's really enjoying it. Have some fucking fun, it should be more of you wanting to play and have fun than just playing and getting it over with...it's your passion..



classic... a thread about live performance and someone has to make a Periphery reference... I am starting to think Bulb has 20 accounts on this site lol

you had me in total agreement with your post til you slipped that shit in there.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

> I can't stress this enough HELP OUT YOUR BAND MEMBERS. It's a team effort, work as a team, have fun doing so, and don't be a dick after the show and get others to help tear down your equipment and look at your drummer for half an hour while he takes his stuff apart. Take everything off stage, put it in one place, then worry about putting it all up... If you play with a fairly easy rig, it's very nice to help others out. They might buy you food afterwards.  and that way yall tear down sooner and you have more time to talk to fans/people at the show


THIS.

My prog band organised a headlining act with 2 other bands as support. After the first band's set, the bass player decided to leave his gear onstage and went to socialise. Everyone else got their gear off and the second band was already setting up. We told the first band members to tell their bass player to get his gear off the stage asap. His excuse was "but the amp isn't mine, it's the venue's." That's not an excuse to leave all your gear onstage after using it.  By the time he got his gear off, half an hour has passed. 

Because of that, to save time, my drummer used the second band's kit and we cut our set to 1/2 an hour. And because our songs border from 9-15 minutes duration, we only played 3 songs.


----------



## drmosh

NickDowe said:


> classic... a thread about live performance and someone has to make a Periphery reference... I am starting to think Bulb has 20 accounts on this site lol
> 
> you had me in total agreement with your post til you slipped that shit in there.



So because he mentioned bulb his posts are now a farce? go away


----------



## slayerrulesyo

drmosh said:


> So because he mentioned bulb his posts are now a farce? go away



Hahaha thank you.

It was merely an example of how much better it is live to move around and get into your playing live than it is to just stand there...and almost everybody on here knows Periphery/probably has seen them live, so I thought it'd be an easy reference  some people don't like bulb...unheard of! jk


----------



## JohnIce

slayerrulesyo said:


> I can't stress this enough HELP OUT YOUR BAND MEMBERS. It's a team effort, work as a team, have fun doing so, and don't be a dick after the show and get others to help tear down your equipment and look at your drummer for half an hour while he takes his stuff apart. Take everything off stage, put it in one place, then worry about putting it all up... If you play with a fairly easy rig, it's very nice to help others out. They might buy you food afterwards.  and that way yall tear down sooner and you have more time to talk to fans/people at the show


 
On that note, this applies during the set also... help eachother out. If the singer drops his mic/pulls the cable or loses his voice, then you start singing while he fixes it. If the other guitarist breaks a string/has amp problems, play bigger chords to fill the space. If the bass player has problems, flesh out by playing as low as you can or add the fifth underneath if you can, or if you have a keyboard player let him play a bass line. If someone's cable comes out during a solo or difficult passage, you plug it back in for them,

It's especially good to tell your singer this, if he doesn't play an instrument he'll have two free hands.

I once saw a Rockabilly trio playing, and the upright bass player's bridge fell over... took him a good 5 minutes to get it back and retuned. During that time, the guitarist and the drummer asked the audience for three words, a place, a person and what the person was doing in that place, then improvised a 5 minute comedy song about it. I was amazed at how they turned such a catastrophical live situation into a great number, just by helping eachother out.

This can be compared ro when I saw another band play... the guitarist broke a string, they broke off the song and he went backstage to get new strings to put on. There was still another guitarist/singer, bassist and drummer onstage, but instead of playing anything, the singer just said: "Shit... I suck at talking to crowds..." and it turned into him walking away from the mic to chat about music with me and my bass player... when the guitarist had finally got his string back on and was in tune, there were about 5 people left on the floor, including me and my bass player.


----------



## ZXIIIT

Don't forget to scope out the stage before you go on (where everyone's gear is placed at, hanging PA speakers, lights)

Countless times I have fallen/tripped while playing (kept playing too, quite funny)


Watch at 2:10

and one time got a slight concussion from headbanging into a very low PA speaker.

This might not apply to anyone else but me, lol


----------



## Guamskyy

I hate shrewd comments like " When I raise my hand, I want you to scream at the top of your lungs"FUCK YOU, I SMOKE WEED!", or "This song is about cum! Specifically in your mouth!"

I hate it when they have the gain at like 5 o'clock, with NO noise gate, so they have soo much fizz. I also hate scooped mids too, how can I like you if I can't hear you?

I hate it when they throw open water bottles either to the crowd or the crowd throws it them, you get the floor wet and people slip and get hurt, and you can mess up the band's gear.

I hate it when band members spit. It's disgusting.

I HATE PUSHPITS.


----------



## Meinrad

I hate it when some guy from a band decides to insult another band while playing live. Like the guy from Municipal Waste who said, between songs, that Disturbed is crap and their fans are crap. If you're so sure of that, put on a good show and prove you can do better, then!

I also hate it when someone doesn't know how to control the feedback from their guitar, and all you hear during the concert is the feedback squeal.


----------



## Soubi7string

Meinrad said:


> I hate it when some guy from a band decides to insult another band while playing live. Like the guy from Municipal Waste who said, between songs, that Disturbed is crap and their fans are crap. If you're so sure of that, put on a good show and prove you can do better, then!
> 
> I also hate it when someone doesn't know how to control the feedback from their guitar, and all you hear during the concert is the feedback squeal.



Dude my friends band was playing their set and we got done before them and dude from another band started talkin shit even though his band had to do he following in order to play:
Borrow my amp and my pedals
Borrow our bass amp
And after a bass string popped they asked to borrow in the midst of a song our bassists bass


----------



## SargeantVomit

guambomb832 said:


> I hate it when band members spit. It's disgusting.



There's a band that came through here on tour once and all the members had a game where they try and spit into the other guys mouths on stage while trying not to get spit on by the other members. They were all horkin' loogies at each other the entire set it was hilarious. Can't remember their name but it was great.


----------



## Guamskyy

SargeantVomit said:


> There's a band that came through here on tour once and all the members had a game where they try and spit into the other guys mouths on stage while trying not to get spit on by the other members. They were all horkin' loogies at each other the entire set it was hilarious. Can't remember their name but it was great.



That's just weird  I meant spit at the crowd.


----------



## ZEBOV

Attention lead vocalists that don't also play an instrument: Get your hand of of the mic's grill, which is really called the diaphragm. That is where the air passes through when you sing, and when you touch it, you fuck up your sound.
While you're holding onto the mic, don't let your arm hang between lines or you'll cause feedback through the monitors.

Those of you who play an instrument, bring your amps and instrument cables if no one has told you that you can borrow their stuff. If you are a solo acoustic act, bring an instrument cable if your guitar is acoutic/electric.
Tune your instrument BEFORE the show starts.

Those of you who like to spin your guitar or bass around your body, this video should teach you a lesson..... Make sure you have the space to do so.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnl6QHd-G28


----------



## Soubi7string

ZEBOV said:


> Attention lead vocalists that don't also play an instrument: Get your hand of of the mic's grill, which is really called the diaphragm. That is where the air passes through when you sing, and when you touch it, you fuck up your sound.
> While you're holding onto the mic, don't let your arm hang between lines or you'll cause feedback through the monitors.
> 
> Those of you who play an instrument, bring your amps and instrument cables if no one has told you that you can borrow their stuff. If you are a solo acoustic act, bring an instrument cable if your guitar is acoutic/electric.
> Tune your instrument BEFORE the show starts.
> 
> Those of you who like to spin your guitar or bass around your body, this video should teach you a lesson..... Make sure you have the space to do so.



LMFAO
NEVER EVER GO GG ALLIN APESHIT SINGERS!!!
the results are bad...ver very very very very very very bad


----------



## Jedi Pirate

Oh yes, I don't have a band/gigged anywhere, but this thread has DEFINITELY offered some great advice. Great job guys!


----------



## Encephalon5

ibznorange said:


> thats terrible! ha, like that band the darkness. ever see them live? Ultra Vneck zebra jumpsuit FTL


 
GET YOUR HANDS OFF OF MY WOMAN MUTHAFUHUKUHAAAUUUAAAHHH


----------



## Cabinet

I hate when the singer tries to get into politics and religious opinions. I remember seeing a band that wrote a song called "Scientology fucking sucks". I understand you don't like Scientology, or you're an ultra liberal who hates Bush, but keep it off the fucking stage. I didn't show up to listen to you get all intellectual, you have plenty of time off stage to do that.

The singer of the band I use to work with would talk about our songs dedicated to people who have been "hurt" and occasionally try to force Satanism down everyone's throat. He's a good example of someone who has no idea what they're doing and somehow he manages to do all these things that everyone hates in this thread, besides getting drunk.

Man that guy was a tool.


----------



## The Munk

Regor said:


> I'm sorry, but I ain't letting ANY local bands who I don't personally know WELL use any of my gear. And they sure as HELL ain't touching any settings on my amp.
> 
> When Division came to MI, Kevin and I let them use our cabs. But that's about the extent of it, because we knew them and all. But other local bands should have their own shit. If you don't, that's YOUR problem... not mine.
> 
> I sure as HELL wouldn't let them use a guitar either. My Randy gets played by ME! Fuck me running if I'm gonna let some assclown run around on stage with my baby and fuck it up by banging it into something. HELL NO!
> 
> I can't even believe people would have the audacity to ask such a thing.



Seconded. People showing up to a show, not prepared, are likely the same ones that will show up late, push all the set times out, and later hit on your wife! (The only acception being a clubs rules, like The Viper Room.)

If you can't invest in your own 'tools of the trade', you should not be playing live. If you can not invest in yourself, why should anyone in any audience?

Other *DO NOTS*:


Do Not vandalize/ disrespect house equipment or establishments.
Do Not mess with other acts gear or use it as a drink stand.
Do Not try sneaking in under aged people into 21+ establishments.
Do not try to *sell* home burned CD's of your material that are scribed with sharpie, light scribed, or labeled.
Do not tell the crowd to assault that one douche in the pit. They don't need your prompt.
Do not throw anything into the crowd. (Serious liability. Sean Yseult chucked one of those big ass triangular bass picks like a shuriken and ripped me dead between my eyes. Fortunately it wasn't one of Tempesta's drum sticks.)
Do Not hog merch space.
Do Not bring banners larger than required for the venue.
Do Not book a gig until you are *ALL* ready.


----------



## Soubi7string

The Munk said:


> [*]Do not try to *sell* home burned CD's of your material that are light scribed



ummm why not Light Scribed CD's that look pro?
I mean dude money is tough as it is for a band and Merch is all that can really help.So, I gotta disagree with that one man


----------



## The Munk

Soubi7string said:


> ummm why not Light Scribed CD's that look pro?
> I mean dude money is tough as it is for a band and Merch is all that can really help.So, I gotta disagree with that one man




It just looks cheesy. A few more bucks will get real printed discs.
Better to give them out as free feelers with web links on them where people can then explore further and pay for downloads. But, as you refer to 'money is tough', for patrons to PAY for stuff like that?

A more professional approach imo.


----------



## Path

The Munk said:


> Do Not mess with other acts gear or use it as a drink stand.




some chump from the support band did this at our last show, the stage was more than big enough for all 3 bands playing, we sound checked second, followed by the 1st band on, i set up my gear, cab/head/wireless system, sound checked, then pushed my stuff to the back of the stage, it was set up still, jus moved out of the way. 

I then went to pick up my Mrs from the train station, came back during the 1st bands set (traffic), only to find when we go on, someone had dismantled all my gear, pilled all my cables into a neat little bowl of spegghetti, and unplugged my amp from the socked while the power was still on.

fkin chump.


----------



## tacotiklah

I have a few don'ts

*DON'T*
-Wait until your band arrives at the gig, then decide at the last second:
"Oh, well since we're a bigger band, we're gonna force your band to go last when you've been telling everyone you're the 2nd to last band up." 
I don't care how awesome your band is, doing last second changes like that fucks my band up and pisses me off. Don't do this anymore please.

-Let one of your band members be an absolute dick to other bands (especially mine). Seriously, if that guy has a beef with people in other bands, tell him to just go wait outside instead of shit-talking other bands while they play (especially mine and especially while I'm announcing that we have some demos for sale). If he keeps doing this, have the decency to fire him please. Otherwise my band just won't book shows with yours anymore. I'm sure you won't care, and not having us on the same bill won't hurt your performance/sales any really, but good friendships are hard to find....

- try to get all your gear to the venue using just one vehicle. My band has tried this and it is so time consuming. Unfortunately, this was what we were stuck with since the other people that said they'd help us flaked out on us. In addition to this, don't be the band member who's supposed to be driving all this crap to the venue and instead spends 90 minutes sitting around at home getting drunk/running errands/etc. Do that crap on your own time the day before and/or after everything is unloaded and ready to go (provided you're not playing until later that night and have an early load-in time).

- wait until your band is up in 2 songs to start putting together the drum set. I really need to ride my drummer to stop doing this.

- avoid warming up on the guitar if you think your fingers need it. If you just sit there without a solid warmup before you play, your fingers will be stiff and you'll be missing/hitting wrong notes everywhere, fucking up the show for your bandmates. This may lead to an ass beating/evil eyes after the show.

- leave your wah pedal on for a whole song because you didn't bother to practice turning your pedals on/off quickly before a show. If this is a real problem, ditch the dunlop wah and buy a morley one that turns off when you step off it.

- do/book last second gigs if/when you can help it. This will lead to mass confusion (for both fans and band members), little to no promotion prior to gig, almost no info (making promotion a nightmare), and being stuck playing crap time slots. Your goal is to show your band in it's best light and it's pretty damn hard to do if you just haphazardly throw shows together while putting almost no thought into it.

- overplay your band. (this is for we local circuit dweebs) I know it sounds like you're really dedicated if you're playing 3-4 gigs a week, but if your fan base only gets paid once every 2 weeks, then it makes it difficult for them to see your band play every show. In this case, it makes more financial sense to try to schedule your gigs alongside when your fans get paid. Your sales (both merch and tix) will be higher (allowing you to do the better gigs and get the better merch) and more people will be able to attend your shows.
I recall seeing an interview with Century Media records regarding getting signed and they pretty much summarized that all they care about is seeing people buy records and attend your shows. They don't care about talent or production quality, all they wanna see is that you can make $$$.
While most of us (myself included) don't do this just to make money and/or have fame, you have to have some sort of business sense or else you'll be stuck playing in your garage 25 years down the road.

- be a dick to anyone at any time. This pertains to a live setting because people tend to remember negative things about you more than positive, and most local scenes are pretty small, so the odds of running into that guy you were an ass to at a show you're playing at are pretty high. Nothing sucks more than when you're trying to build interest in your band's set, and that guy is running around shit-talking you and your band over some drama that happened in the past. However, if you're a cool, easygoing guy, your band will be one of the first that come to mind when a promoter needs a band to fill a slot.

- forget your setlist. Seriously, am I the only guy that actually remembers the songnames (and I didn't even name the songs)? Stop looking at me to remind you what songs we're playing next. Especially when I made sure to go over those with you before we went up on stage. Take this shit seriously please.


----------



## Double A

Don't show up late and therefore set up late and cut our set time by half. Break a string, have no back up guitar, ask to use mine (I had just bought a Gibson Les Paul DC, I know some do not like Gibson but this guitar is awesome, anyways, I just payed $2100 for it the week before) when I let you use it please do not proceed to do crappy windmills giving me a heart attack and then play your last song with 5 shitty improvised breakdowns cutting our set by a further 15 minutes. I know it is a small venue but we booked it and we are splitting it with you. There is a reason your band stopped getting shows. I have also never let anyone play my guitars ever again.


----------



## blister7321

this happened last week 
this kid books a show in his back fucking yard right
so he proceeds to allow a walk in to play an acoustic and sing before the 2 headliners
dont do that 

also dont come to the bands you booked asking them what to do about the gig YOU FUCKING BOOKED 

dont play in a place were jazz bands play on an open mic night when your expected to use house gear 
punk on a setting for free form jazz basses doesnt work (found that out the hard way)


----------



## Arrogance

Just so you guys know, this is a great, hilarious, and useful thread.
Keep it going.


----------



## SjPedro

in all of this i am afraid of repeating anything but I will say it anyway.
Prior to a gig. Let's say you have 1 hour to play. Rehearse with the band music to cover that one hour or a bit less and time it correctly so that when the time for the actual gig is upon you, you don't overdue your scheduled time...or go too short on the time. 
Make sure you have enough time to address the audience and not just play one song after the other and little to no interaction. 
If we all did this, all bands would have the time to get their music out in the same venue even if time is against them


----------



## Soubi7string

as a band it is your job to get your shit off and on that stage as quick as possible
so
DON'T STAND AROUND AND TALK


----------



## Treeunit212

The Munk said:


> [*]Do Not vandalize/ disrespect house equipment or establishments.



I remember the Summer of 09' this band called KING from Flint, MI came up to Northern Michigan to play a show. My band opened for them and as we were finishing up getting our equipment off the stage, we asked their bassist if it was okay to leave our stage box (for standing on) there. He said it was fine and so we stood back to watch their set.

The second they start, the vocalist smashes his foot through the box and punches a hole in the wall. The fight that followed got two of the members arrested, and they even brought a fire truck to block the exit so they couldn't get away. 

Moral is: Don't destroy a venue if you ever want to play within 100 miles of it again.


----------



## RaceCar

I know this is a bumped thread, but I just read through about 7 pages of it, and it is GREAT!!!!!!!!!

My 2 biggest pet peeves:

1. When the frontman gets political. Not everywhere shares the same beliefs as you bro, careful what you say or you could lose about half your fans. Keep it musical. If I want to get political I'll watch TV or go online.

2. When the frontman insults the crowd. This has been previously mentioned, nothing makes fans want to leave and hate that band forever more than this.


----------



## Semi-pro

RaceCar said:


> 2. When the frontman insults the crowd. This has been previously mentioned, nothing makes fans want to leave and hate that band forever more than this.



I agree. A show should be all about having good times and sharing the kicks. The band should get the ppl moving since the beginning 'til the end. Insulting doesn't really work in that.

Although, sarcasm might work sometimes - buddies of mine opened up in a show where the crowd was a bit far from the stage as sometimes can happen in the beginning of a set. In the middle of their set the frontman said with a nice voice "yuuup... looking good... now everyone could join that guy (pointing someone in the crowd) and put your hands in the pocket too, and maybe step a few steps more to the back, let's make this an unforgettable evening!" - it worked and ppl actually came closer to the stage


----------



## mothmantis

My personal list of dont's, mostly learned the hard way:

1. Don't insult the other bands. Best case scenario you're right and who gives a s***, worst case scenario they get big and won't let you open because you talked trash. Any case scenario you look like a petty douchebag.
2. Don't have a music stand center stage. People want to see a band, not glorified karaoke.
3. Don't trust the sound guy if he's in one of the other bands.
4. Don't leave gear onstage after your set. Unless you like the idea of it becoming someone else's gear.
5. Don't misrepresent your band to the management. Selling your tech metal act as a folk rock band just to get a paying gig will not make you any friends.

And some Do's:
1. Fire the bassist if he won't turn his damn volume down/doesn't know the set list/noodles between songs/doesn't bring a tuner/won't load gear/won't buy his own gear/any other irritating bass player bulls***. It's easier in the long run. If he won't pull his weight, someone else will.
2. Figure out finances before the show. Money makes people do evil things, and there's nothing worse than arguing with the (effing!) bassist at 3 AM in the parking lot after the show that no, he does not get an extra $20 because he stayed up all night trying to learn the songs and had to drive his own vehicle to the venue while the rest of the band had the entire set down a month ago and got to sound-check an hour early.
3. Do give a shout-out to the bar staff/waitresses/establishment. They are more important than your dead girlfriend and/or individual names on the shout-out hierarchy because they give you money.
4. Watch the audience. They are your boss. You are here for their amusement. Make them happy.
5. You do have time to make friends with everyone that wants to after tearing down. Your girlfriend/real job/kids/sick relative/whatever can wait 5 minutes. You never know who's hand you might be shaking.


----------



## Guitarman700

Treeunit212 said:


> I remember the Summer of 09' this band called KING from Flint, MI came up to Northern Michigan to play a show. My band opened for them and as we were finishing up getting our equipment off the stage, we asked their bassist if it was okay to leave our stage box (for standing on) there. He said it was fine and so we stood back to watch their set.
> 
> The second they start, the vocalist smashes his foot through the box and punches a hole in the wall. The fight that followed got two of the members arrested, and they even brought a fire truck to block the exit so they couldn't get away.
> 
> Moral is: Don't destroy a venue if you ever want to play within 100 miles of it again.



Oh my god dude, I remember that!
What a dick!
Strangely, thats all i remember about that show apart from the your bands set.


----------



## Scar Symmetry

halsinden said:


> or perhaps as a second to that - overly long diatribes between nearly each & every song, a la phil anselmo / axl rose.
> 
> and perhaps then once actually off the stage (and sometimes on) - laypeople such as bono genuinely postulating on politics as if hes in a position to be revered. its an abuse of profile, IMO.
> 
> H



This. 

If you want to preach, become a priest.


----------



## Treeunit212

Guitarman700 said:


> Oh my god dude, I remember that!
> What a dick!
> Strangely, thats all i remember about that show apart from the your bands set.



And that's because we were the only band that got to play.


----------



## highlordmugfug

I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but read up about GG Allin and all of his stage antics. All of those are pretty big no-no's.


----------



## Semi-pro

^  the Mr. Bungle of music biz


----------



## TimSE

I hate people telling the audience what to do:
"clap your hands..." 
"lets see some fucking movement" etc etc

Never dedicate any song to anyone like Girlfriends or someone no one knows / care about

dedicating a pantera cover to Dimebag is ok but you know what i mean. Im sure that would have been covered but still important enough to say again


----------



## Lon

TimSE said:


> I hate people telling the audience what to do:
> "clap your hands..."
> "lets see some fucking movement" etc etc


Although i cringe everytime someone does this... its mandatory. A lot of people totally get off on doing what they're told to on concerts and if you do not do this a lot of crowd energy is missing, but i totally agree with the rest!


----------



## TimSE

Lon said:


> Although i cringe everytime someone does this... its mandatory. A lot of people totally get off on doing what they're told to on concerts and if you do not do this a lot of crowd energy is missing, but i totally agree with the rest!



Hmm danno about it being Mandatory. 
I think someone else mentioned this and said ya its cool if your playing festivals or if the crowd do it without prompt but if someone tells me to do anything like that i yell fuck off or leave. instantly makes me angry  danno why but it just does.


----------



## scottro202

This may just be me, but I get the feeling all the people saying encouraging crowd participation's bad are just angry 

But as far as that goes, it's all in the circumstance. If you're playing your drummer's dad's Christmas party otuside for 5 of your friends and the rest can hear you inside, probably not the time for crow participation.

If you're playing a packed room (At least 100+ people) full of people eager to hear your music and full of chicks who wanna suck your dick, crowd participation is probably a good idea  (This is what my band's shows are like  )



Spoiler



Not really.


----------



## Lon

scottro202 said:


> If you're playing a packed room (At least 100+ people) full of people eager to hear your music and full of chicks who wanna suck your dick, crowd participation is probably a good idea  (This is what my band's shows are like  )
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Not really.


Actually, my bands shows are really like that... not that we are famous in any kind (well atleast not beyond a 50 mile radius ), but yeah maybe this is the reason why im not too offput by forced crowd participation, usually everyone thinks the show was better if everyone got to do some stupid cheesy thing i would never do in front of any band, but onstage its quite fun to watch ^^


----------



## scottro202

Lon said:


> Actually, my bands shows are really like that... not that we are famous in any kind (well atleast not beyond a 50 mile radius ), but yeah maybe this is the reason why im not too offput by forced crowd participation, usually everyone thinks the show was better if everyone got to do some stupid cheesy thing i would never do in front of any band, but onstage its quite fun to watch ^^



I was mostly talking about the chicks sucking our dicks part of the "not really" part , and I totally see what you're getting at.

People go to a show to have fun. As the entertainers, shouldn't we provide the fun?


----------



## Lon

scottro202 said:


> I was mostly talking about the chicks sucking our dicks part of the "not really" part , and I totally see what you're getting at.
> 
> People go to a show to have fun. As the entertainers, shouldn't we provide the fun?


Actually.... one of our former bass players got... the thing you mentioned 

And yes, people pay to see you play so you better be entertaining


----------



## Ben.Last

highlordmugfug said:


> I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but read up about GG Allin and all of his stage antics. All of those are pretty big no-no's.



Really? That's pretty much all he did to gain himself a measure of immortality.


----------



## JamesM

^That shit doesn't fly nowadays. No pun intended.


----------



## highlordmugfug

It shouldn't have flown then and it's too bad that he didn't get his stupid ass beat to death instead of dying of a drug overdose or whatever it was.
[/ggallinwasanassholeandI'mgladhe'sdead]


----------



## Soubi7string

GG ALLIN ANGRY!!!! YOU NO LIKE WHEN I GET ANGRY FOR GG ALLIN MOST ANNOYING THERE IS!!!!


----------



## Sang-Drax

Singers: open your fucking eyes, for god's sake. Look at the damn crowd, at least once in a while.


----------



## budda

Here's a good summarizer:

Tailor your set to your venue and probable crowd size. Yes, interact with everyone at that 15-person sunday night hardcore show - they'll be glad it wasn't a waste of their time. My friend's band put on a hell of a performance for about 12 people including the 14 year olds in the opener - and as such, we were all quite impressed.

I want to play live again soon


----------



## apiss

If you play guitar, please bring your own god damned *guitar strap*. 

If you can afford a $200 pair of jeans, a "rare" pair of colorful-like-a-clown sneakers, and brand name shirts that looks like it's been a doormat in its past life, I'm sure you can afford a $30 good guitar strap now, yea? 

Hipsters. How do they fucking work? Oh yeah, right. They don't.


----------



## misingonestring

apiss said:


> Hipsters. How do they fucking work? Oh yeah, right. They don't.


 
My bro's a hipster and he's got a job... at a Target.

Sorry for going off topic.


----------



## mattofvengeance

I really hate it when bands introduce members, and I especially hate it when they tell the crowd who wrote what song. Drives me fucking insane, almost as much as when a local band has a half hour long set, or whatever, and each member has their own dedicated "solo". You aren't Metallica. Get on with it.


----------



## Soubi7string

mattofvengeance said:


> I really hate it when bands introduce members


well I think that there is a grace period for that
like when they're a few weeks(3-4 shows) old on the "live" scene


----------



## scottro202

If you can, use your own equipment. Here's a little story.

So, a couple weeks ago, both of my bands were playing a show together. One of these bands, I play bass (Sam and the Sexpots), the other, I play guitar (Skittle Biscuit). I was riding with the band I play bass in, because we ran through all our stuff at the rehearsal spot the day of the show. So, I'm bringing all of my guitar stuff as well, with the gear for Sam and the Sexpots.

We get to the gig, and in the car I rode in, that of the lead guitarist's, we were a little shorthanded on bringing the gear, and it was a long walk from the parking lot to the venue. So, I told her she could use my guitar rig for the show. She was cool with that, and I didn't mind, because she's a bandmate and I knew she wouldn't fuck anything up (I also borrowed a guitar cable from her for the show which I haven't returned to her yet... But she knows I have it so it's cool)

See, this was the first time I was ever going to use my new Peavey Valveking live. So, I knew just about as much about how it would fare as she did. And Sam and the Sexpots was playing first. 

The amp ended up being a feedback mess, luckily I had a noise gate on my board (which she was also using), which stopped it, but neither of us knew this was going to happen, and people DID notice the insane feedback.

So, kiddies, when possible, use your own gear, and have noise gates in your signal chain


----------



## Milo

I despise it when singers spit into the audience or just any member spitting at any direction. Its disgusting and although a small chance, can spread disgusting viruses, bugs or anything!


----------



## Treeunit212

Milo said:


> I despise it when singers spit into the audience or just any member spitting at any direction. Its disgusting and although a small chance, can spread disgusting viruses, bugs or anything!



But.. But.. It's so METAL!


----------



## Albionic

just some tips for people who have yet to gig

dont turn up to a gig with the bear minimum amount of cables 

don't throw your cables into a bag with the intention of sorting them out later(you almost certainly wont and next time you play it wil take half hour to untangle)

do realise that if you have never gigged before your first gig will almost certainly be shit it will take a few gigs for a band to find its feet so keep at it and don't worry

don't panic if you make a mistake act like nothing happened and in most cases the audience won't notice

don't expect a long soundcheck as an opening band (you won't get one)

only play stuff you are confident you can pull off. most audiences don't realize(or care)that what you are playing is difficult and therefore won't be impressed

if somone gives you a slot in their show return the favour most bands just want to play as much as possible so dont be afraid to aproach the headliner with a gig offer 
my band used to healine a show one week the open at the same venue the next week (sometimes for the band the opened for us the week before) we never turned down a gig unless we were already busy

wich brings me to this pont don't quibble about your place on the bill it doesnt matter
sometimes a band would be before us on the bill but it would be clear they had a bigger following so we used to let them have the larger,later slot that way we got to play to their fans who would probably have gone home after the band they wantd to see finnished leaving us with a half empty room


----------



## lookralphsbak

TimSE said:


> Hmm danno about it being Mandatory.
> I think someone else mentioned this and said ya its cool if your playing festivals or if the crowd do it without prompt but if someone tells me to do anything like that i yell fuck off or leave. instantly makes me angry  danno why but it just does.


Wall of death isn't started by a miracle


----------



## Treeunit212

Albionic said:


> don't quibble about your place on the bill it doesnt matter
> sometimes a band would be before us on the bill but it would be clear they had a bigger following so we used to let them have the larger,later slot that way we got to play to their fans who would probably have gone home after the band they wantd to see finnished leaving us with a half empty room



That's actually a very good point... Too many local bands complain about their spot, when in reality it doesn't matter. And besides, the headlining or later playing bands most likely drove many hours to get there, whereas you drove ten minutes from your parents basement. They deserve it, not you.


----------



## Encephalon5

Do not drive down here from West Virginia and push the one of the guys standing up front thinking it would pump him up. Also, don't come up and push me when I clearly am not interested.


----------



## Albionic

thought of a couple more

try and get the vocalist to keep his body between the mic and the backline as much as possible 
ie don't let him jump into the audience during the guitar solo leaving the mic switched on facing your amp so it bleeds through the pa

do not grin and nod at each other like idiots when a gig is going really well


----------



## Treeunit212

Albionic said:


> do not grin and nod at each other like idiots when a gig is going really well





We do that when It's going badly...


----------



## Murmel

Treeunit212 said:


> We do that when It's going badly...


I always do it, no matter how it's going


----------



## Albionic

Murmel said:


> I always do it, no matter how it's going


 

lol its hard to resist especially when you nail something that hasn't gone well in rehaersal

but you don't want to come across as shocked that its not a total mess


----------



## JohnIce

Albionic said:


> thought of a couple more
> 
> try and get the vocalist to keep his body between the mic and the backline as much as possible
> ie don't let him jump into the audience during the guitar solo leaving the mic switched on facing your amp so it bleeds through the pa
> 
> do not grin and nod at each other like idiots when a gig is going really well



If your stage is set up so that you'd get problems like that, I don't think it really matters where your vocalist is standing.

And of course there's no need to look like an idiot, but smiling and interacting on stage is a great thing. It's a lot more entertaining to watch a band having fun and looking at eachother than a band staring at their intstruments and just looking incredibly serious about it.


----------



## davidengel

Don't let the inexperienced sound guy change your settings on both guitar amps when you and the rest of your band are off stage. This doesn't help when the "pre" and "post" volumes are at 3 and makes you sound like complete shit. (The other guitar player had his mids scooped.) 

Luckily I was able to re-adjust after the first song.


----------



## Albionic

JohnIce said:


> If your stage is set up so that you'd get problems like that, I don't think it really matters where your vocalist is standing.
> point taken. but when you play on a tiny stage (or just on the floor in the corner of a bar) the luxury of proper positioning is something we don't all have and vocalists tend to move the mic stand around (no matter how carefully you position it)


----------



## JohnIce

Albionic said:


> point taken. but when you play on a tiny stage (or just on the floor in the corner of a bar) the luxury of proper positioning is something we don't all have and vocalists tend to move the mic stand around (no matter how carefully you position it)



True! Although then it's the position of the mic that's the problem, not the vocalist 

I have another one that I actually caught from seeing The Haunted playing a local show here. At some point one of the guitarists was hearing something strange in his monitor, couldn't really tell what it was... and it didn't really translate to the audience either, it sounded like it had the whole night  But about 3/4 into the set, with the audience really getting into it, the show is at a complete standstill while he and the sound tech are troubleshooting.

After a while of the rest of the band AND the audience standing around looking like asses, the singer finally says to him: "Hey, do you wanna play some heavy metal even though it doesn't sound perfect?"  And after that the show was rolling again, and it sounded fine.

Bottom line is, unless your amp blows up or something, don't stop the show just because something is less than perfect. It's fine to ask the sound tech to change something in the monitor mix in between songs but stopping the whole show like that killed the mood completely.

- edit - Another one: Saying stuff off the cuff to the audience is all well and good if you do it well, but keep in mind what song you're playing... I've seen a lot of bands play and the singer shouts something like: "Let's see some fucking moshing!" and then seconds later they go into a clean part  If you want the crowd to interact, do it somewhere in the song where they have some time to figure out what it is they're supposed to do, and then get to do it for a while. Having all of 5 seconds to headbang isn't too much fun.


----------



## ZEBOV

mothmantis said:


> Don't trust the sound guy if he's in one of the other bands.


Why not? I'm a "sound guy".


----------



## JohnIce

ZEBOV said:


> Why not? I'm a "sound guy".



Indeed, the sound guy wants to be invited back for more work another time, why would he sabotage your sound?


----------



## mothmantis

JohnIce said:


> Indeed, the sound guy wants to be invited back for more work another time, why would he sabotage your sound?



Maybe it's just my (admittedly limited,) experience, but there's this one guy out here that _insists_ on using his system on any show his band plays at ("Nah, guys, trust me, I'll have you sounding cherry!") He's notorious for 'bumping' the low end way up three minutes into the opening act's set or 'accidentally' dialing the vocals almost out of the mix and then wandering away from the board for the rest of the set ("What happened up there? Oh! You should have said something!") Then when the crowd starts getting large, drunk and restless, his band comes onstage to save the show, much to the delight of the crowd and management. THAT'S how he gets invited back for more work. He's not in the band with the quiet singer or the wall of mud.


----------



## Soubi7string

I would strike up the management with the other bands and request said jackass be over ruled and defeated


----------



## mothmantis

Soubi7string said:


> I would strike up the management with the other bands and request said jackass be over ruled and defeated



Yeah, but it's just small-town politics. This dude's band is actually pretty good, not good enough to compete in Austin or San Antonio, sure, but there's no reason he should feel threatened by the opening acts. But if he wants to be the big fish in the little bowl, let him. Most acts around here just learn not to play shows with him after the first one. Complaining to the management just seems like such a crybaby tactic. I just took the high road: smile, be polite, thank the Management, and never share the stage with him again. He knows he boned us, he knows we know he boned us, and he knows that if any accusations start flying then _we _end up looking as unprofessional and petty as he _is._

And to any sound guys on here, please, I do not mean to impugn your honor or motivations, as the vast majority of you are competent, ethical and professional. I'm just saying that the majority of struggling musicians put their music ahead of everybody else's, and not everyone you work with will be your friend. It's the same as any job. Anyone that's had a co-worker take credit for their work to get a promotion knows what it's like: you can make yourself crazy with resentment or you can accept it and learn from your experience.


----------



## ZEBOV

mothmantis said:


> Maybe it's just my (admittedly limited,) experience, but there's this one guy out here that _insists_ on using his system on any show his band plays at ("Nah, guys, trust me, I'll have you sounding cherry!") He's notorious for 'bumping' the low end way up three minutes into the opening act's set or 'accidentally' dialing the vocals almost out of the mix and then wandering away from the board for the rest of the set ("What happened up there? Oh! You should have said something!") Then when the crowd starts getting large, drunk and restless, his band comes onstage to save the show, much to the delight of the crowd and management. THAT'S how he gets invited back for more work. He's not in the band with the quiet singer or the wall of mud.



He's probably just changing 1 or 2 things on the mixer board. You should learn how to operate it so that when he wanders off, you can quickly fix it. It's easy as long as you don't let the numerous rows of knobs and faders intimidate you. When you learn how to operate 1 mixer, you already know how to operate most of them.


----------



## mothmantis

ZEBOV said:


> He's probably just changing 1 or 2 things on the mixer board. You should learn how to operate it so that when he wanders off, you can quickly fix it. It's easy as long as you don't let the numerous rows of knobs and faders intimidate you. When you learn how to operate 1 mixer, you already know how to operate most of them.



I really think you might have missed the point. I know how to operate a mixer. I'm not an expert, probably not even good, but like I said, this happened with us one time when we were first starting out, and I wasn't gonna interrupt our 30 minute set to climb off the stage and turn the singer's mic up. We were naive and new to playing live shows and weren't taking advantage of helpful forums like this. I've seen this guy pull the same tactic with other bands and thought it might have been a common occurrence. Guess I was wrong in that assumption.

Probably I should have picked a different 'for instance.' I was attempting to use what I thought was a common gripe to illustrate a broader principle. So for the sake of clarity, allow me to change that particular 'don't' to: "Don't expect strangers to have your band's best interests at heart." There. That can apply to record execs, club managers, other musicians, and, yes, underhanded local celebrities that will throw you under the bus to make themselves look better by comparison. I hope that helps, because I'm done trying to explain this s***.


----------



## scottro202

T_money419 said:


> dont come on shirtless. If you really feel the need to show muscles do it at least halfway through.
> unless female



I'm gonna take this a step further.

I'm going to play in my underwear halfway through my band's set at our EP release show in the spring


----------



## Lives Once Abstract

Lozek said:


> Oooooh ooooh oooooh, another one. Don't, please please don't, dedicate the next song to your girlfriend. No-one else sees the beauty in your saggy, mole ridden walrus of an attempt at human likeness. Just don't. really.



Unless your gonna say "i dedicate this next song to a girl name 'so and so"
and then the first words of the song are like F*** you or something that would be insane


----------



## Lives Once Abstract

JohnIce said:


> True! Although then it's the position of the mic that's the problem, not the vocalist
> 
> I have another one that I actually caught from seeing The Haunted playing a local show here. At some point one of the guitarists was hearing something strange in his monitor, couldn't really tell what it was... and it didn't really translate to the audience either, it sounded like it had the whole night  But about 3/4 into the set, with the audience really getting into it, the show is at a complete standstill while he and the sound tech are troubleshooting.
> 
> After a while of the rest of the band AND the audience standing around looking like asses, the singer finally says to him: "Hey, do you wanna play some heavy metal even though it doesn't sound perfect?"  And after that the show was rolling again, and it sounded fine.
> 
> Bottom line is, unless your amp blows up or something, don't stop the show just because something is less than perfect. It's fine to ask the sound tech to change something in the monitor mix in between songs but stopping the whole show like that killed the mood completely.
> 
> - edit - Another one: Saying stuff off the cuff to the audience is all well and good if you do it well, but keep in mind what song you're playing... I've seen a lot of bands play and the singer shouts something like: "Let's see some fucking moshing!" and then seconds later they go into a clean part  If you want the crowd to interact, do it somewhere in the song where they have some time to figure out what it is they're supposed to do, and then get to do it for a while. Having all of 5 seconds to headbang isn't too much fun.



haha yeah, and also, i mix our bands music mostly when playing gigs, because the sound guy doesnt know how to mix super heavy metal very well usually. And another thing, it looks horrible when every member of the band is head banging differently, and sometime they loose focus and either their head bangs are out of time or their instrument or both, it looks better when every one can do it at the same time the same way it looks so cool when we, and other bands do that.


----------



## josh pelican

Lives Once Abstract said:


> Unless your gonna say "i dedicate this next song to a girl name 'so and so"
> and then the first words of the song are like F*** you or something that would be insane



How do you figure?


----------



## JohnIce

Lives Once Abstract said:


> haha yeah, and also, i mix our bands music mostly when playing gigs, because the sound guy doesnt know how to mix super heavy metal very well usually. And another thing, it looks horrible when every member of the band is head banging differently, and sometime they loose focus and either their head bangs are out of time or their instrument or both, it looks better when every one can do it at the same time the same way it looks so cool when we, and other bands do that.



Oh it was their own sound tech, but the in house PA and monitors. The 2 opening bands were tech'd by my one of my Sound Engineering teachers and he's top class, aswell as used to the venue and PA, so both the opening acts sounded better than the headliners 

However, I hate "sound techs" who are really just record spinners but have their own PA so they get hired as sound techs. They show up with a bunch of mics and cables, set them up in some ridiculous way, check if they're all getting signal and then that's a sound check to them.  Then when you're onstage playing your songs they decide "Hey, look at how loud my subwoofers are!", crank the bass and the whole room becomes a pile of shit and standing waves. Especially catastrophic if you detune.

Ah fuck, old memories making me angry again.


----------



## Treeunit212

josh pelican said:


> How do you figure?




I've screamed this in public with friends on many occasions.


----------



## 13point9

Treeunit212 said:


> I've screamed this in public with friends on many occasions.



as have I lol, I'm usually under the influence though


----------



## Lives Once Abstract

josh pelican said:


> How do you figure?




Like say " i dedicate this song to a girl very far away from me now" and then play Sleep with one eye open, by bring me the horizon


----------



## avenger

I think its perfectly acceptable to dedicate a song about slashing up human flesh to a skank ex.


----------



## gs_waldemar

- Don't go play live if you're a studio pussy
Some bands, admittedly most of them better & commercial ones, nowadays are extremely overproduced. SO when playing live, they're far below their studio level. Sometimes so far below - they could actually be their own fucking teenage-coverband!! That sucks if you paid a fortune of a ticket...

So one should always try to write stuff that they can actually play/sing/whatever


----------



## 13point9

Make sure you practice extensively so that your a tight unit as a band. Don't rush into live shows, it will invariably blow up in your face if your not prepared properly...


----------



## Treeunit212

avenger said:


> I think its perfectly acceptable to dedicate a song about slashing up human flesh to a skank ex.



Amen.


----------



## GeoMantic

Don't run in place. Ever.


----------



## Lives Once Abstract

Josh Geohagan said:


> Don't run in place. Ever.



HAHAHAHAHA!    what!? has some one done that on stage? thats hilarious


----------



## Infiniti

I have a feeling that this is what he meant...


----------



## GeoMantic

That isn't what I meant. That's funny.

I meant more along the lines of this:


See 1:35 for the running in place. See the rest of the video for crab squats.

 terrible stuff.


----------



## Lives Once Abstract

Crabcore is cool if you dont do it too much, it gets anoying after a while.


----------



## Treeunit212

Lives Once Abstract said:


> Crabcore is cool if you dont do it too much, it gets anoying after a while.



No.


----------



## Ben.Last

Lives Once Abstract said:


> Crabcore is cool if you dont do it too much, it gets anoying after a while.



No. It is, in fact, NEVER cool.


----------



## ZXIIIT

Josh Geohagan said:


> That isn't what I meant. That's funny.
> 
> I meant more along the lines of this:
> 
> 
> See 1:35 for the running in place. See the rest of the video for crab squats.
> 
> terrible stuff.




I liked the intro, the rest... must unsee


----------



## GeoMantic

Lives Once Abstract said:


> Crabcore is cool if you dont do it too much, it gets anoying after a while.


 
No. Just no.


----------



## highlordmugfug

Lives Once Abstract said:


> Crabcore is cool if you dont do it too much, it gets anoying after a while.


----------



## ZEBOV

Lives Once Abstract said:


> haha yeah, and also, i mix our bands music mostly when playing gigs, because the sound guy doesnt know how to mix super heavy metal very well usually. And another thing, it looks horrible when every member of the band is head banging differently, and sometime they loose focus and either their head bangs are out of time or their instrument or both, it looks better when every one can do it at the same time the same way it looks so cool when we, and other bands do that.



Sometimes it looks really bad when band mates headbang in unison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8v05Z2Dbm8

Only run in place if you have a treadmill. That's what they're for!


----------



## Varcolac

Don't forget to use straplocks. 

And if you do forget, don't smash the first chord of the first song so hard that your strap comes off and leaves you playing the rest of the verse with the guitar on your knee before you get a chance to readjust yourself.


----------



## JoeMalov

ZEBOV said:


> Sometimes it looks really bad when band mates headbang in unison.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8v05Z2Dbm8
> 
> Only run in place if you have a treadmill. That's what they're for!



I find it extremely coincidental that you found a virtually unheard of band from my local area. Too funny, dude


----------



## heilarkyguitar

josh pelican said:


> How do you figure?



funny did he say fucked w/ a knive lol


----------



## Soubi7string

heilarkyguitar said:


> funny did he say fucked w/ a knive lol



yep
Fucked with a Knife


----------



## Treeunit212

Don't get to the venue late just so you have a better spot.


----------



## op1e

JoeMalov said:


> I find it extremely coincidental that you found a virtually unheard of band from my local area. Too funny, dude



HaHA, The RockStar stage. Played there once. Gettin gear up those stairs is a bitch.


----------



## Soubi7string

Josh Geohagan said:


> That isn't what I meant. That's funny.
> 
> I meant more along the lines of this:
> 
> 
> See 1:35 for the running in place. See the rest of the video for crab squats.
> 
> terrible stuff.




is this attack of the clones all over again?


----------



## ZEBOV

Soubi7string said:


> is this attack of the clones all over again?


No, this is attack of the clones.


----------



## ZXIIIT

Don't avoid your band mates and their phone calls all day about the show, this will cause them to fire you for no showing a gig. (happened to us last week)


----------



## Blood Ghost

ZOMB13 said:


> I liked the intro, the rest... must unsee



Indeed, it was pretty awesome for about... 35 seconds... 



ZEBOV said:


> Sometimes it looks really bad when band mates headbang in unison.



Unless you're Amon Amarth. Still a little goofy, but respectable.


----------



## ZEBOV

Blood Ghost said:


> Unless you're Amon Amarth. Still a little goofy, but respectable.


It's one thing to simply headbang in unison, but to exaggerate every other beat and choreograph when the whole band headbangs (with their knees) is just dumb.
I can't remember who, but someone's sig says "Seriously, you do NOT headbang with your knees". That video is why that got sig'd.


----------



## Soubi7string

not necessarily live performance
but leads up to it
when a bill is FULL do not ask TO FUCKING JUMP ON IT LAST MINUTE and after being told nicely that the bill is full decide to ask the venue owner and the other 4 fucking bands that are on the bill if you can play or to persuade our decision.It will end with you pissing someone off.


----------



## jcoon7

word!


----------



## Murmel

ZEBOV said:


> I can't remember who, but someone's sig says "Seriously, you do NOT headbang with your knees". That video is why that got sig'd.


I'm guilty of saying that 
I'm so proud that it got sig'd


----------



## krypter

All great advice. As an aside, one of the BEST local bands i've ever seen violated like 1/2 these rules. On purpose.

The were called Lords of Satan. and i loved every second of it. 

I stopped in this little local dive bar place (one of my favorite hang outs) and saw the band on the bill. I had to see what was up.

Cue big, dark symphonic intro tape. Two dudes in all black, corpsepaint, and long hair come snarling onto stage. Bending hissing and being dramatic. I raise an eye brow....i mean...really? in a place like this? the into music grows darker, heavier....more brooding....suddenly.....

It stops. They snarl at the crowd. Evil lurks.......
And they pick up two acoustic guitars and slide into a jazzy cover of "oops i did it again" Perfectly sung, easy, gentle, almost touching. 

I lost my damn mind i was laughing so hard. It had to be (and still probably is) one of the greatest things i've ever seen in my life. 

They played mostly covers. Just two dudes on acoustics, cracking jokes, playing silly songs (only 3 originals. one about Chunk from the Goonies, one about giving high fives, and one about #2 pencils-which was actually catchy as hell)
An Nsync cover, Britney Spears, U2 (i think) 3 originals, and some misc. other things. All extremely well played, very well sung, and arranged briliantly. 

They also encouraged everyone to mosh at every song, spit on each otehr, drank, cussed, talked too much, and were way over dramatic. It was absolutely briliantly executed, original, and still my favorite local show ever. I've never seen, nor heard from them again.


----------



## ZEBOV

Before the show, for your own good, don't eat food that gives you major gas. Yesterday, some guy in a solo acoustic act let out this gigantic fart, and some people thought it was gross and left, while others like me, burst out laughing. And then he admited that he was trying not to let that out. After he played, he stepped outside, let out a few more gigantic farts, and he told me he ate a whole box of Fiber Plus bars.


----------



## Soubi7string

ZEBOV said:


> Fiber Plus bars.



pipes gettin rusty enough to cut diamonds in an ice storm


----------



## Treeunit212

krypter said:


> All great advice. As an aside, one of the BEST local bands i've ever seen violated like 1/2 these rules. On purpose.
> 
> The were called Lords of Satan. and i loved every second of it.
> 
> I stopped in this little local dive bar place (one of my favorite hang outs) and saw the band on the bill. I had to see what was up.
> 
> Cue big, dark symphonic intro tape. Two dudes in all black, corpsepaint, and long hair come snarling onto stage. Bending hissing and being dramatic. I raise an eye brow....i mean...really? in a place like this? the into music grows darker, heavier....more brooding....suddenly.....
> 
> It stops. They snarl at the crowd. Evil lurks.......
> And they pick up two acoustic guitars and slide into a jazzy cover of "oops i did it again" Perfectly sung, easy, gentle, almost touching.
> 
> I lost my damn mind i was laughing so hard. It had to be (and still probably is) one of the greatest things i've ever seen in my life.
> 
> They played mostly covers. Just two dudes on acoustics, cracking jokes, playing silly songs (only 3 originals. one about Chunk from the Goonies, one about giving high fives, and one about #2 pencils-which was actually catchy as hell)
> An Nsync cover, Britney Spears, U2 (i think) 3 originals, and some misc. other things. All extremely well played, very well sung, and arranged briliantly.
> 
> They also encouraged everyone to mosh at every song, spit on each otehr, drank, cussed, talked too much, and were way over dramatic. It was absolutely briliantly executed, original, and still my favorite local show ever. I've never seen, nor heard from them again.



That's got to be the greatest gig story I've ever heard.


----------



## 5656130

ZEBOV said:


> Sometimes it looks really bad when band mates headbang in unison.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8v05Z2Dbm8
> 
> Only run in place if you have a treadmill. That's what they're for!


 

im sorry but the child growling singing whatever is absolutley scary what is he like 5 foot one and belting those things out?


----------



## Soubi7string

5656130 said:


> im sorry but the child growling singing whatever is absolutley scary what is he like 5 foot one and belting those things out?



dudes bout as scary as a goldfish


----------



## Lives Once Abstract

Okay, if you guys are talking about like attack crabcore, yeah thats gay, but when you :kind of" squat and head bang like crazy it looks cool.


----------



## heilarkyguitar

5656130 said:


> im sorry but the child growling singing whatever is absolutley scary what is he like 5 foot one and belting those things out?


 that was way cool..


----------



## Murmel

Don't join a battle of the bands where you can play 2 songs before voting and then play 2 songs which are 15 minutes each.
You're only stealing valuable time.

This happened yesterday, I honestly think they played their entire album but instead of pausing between songs they just made progressions between them 
Anyway, the consequence was that the band after only got to play 1 song because there wasn't enough time.


----------



## ZEBOV

Making progressions between songs is cool, but yeah, definitely not for a battle of the bands.


----------



## Varcolac

Murmel said:


> Don't join a battle of the bands where you can play 2 songs before voting and then play 2 songs which are 15 minutes each.
> You're only stealing valuable time.
> 
> This happened yesterday, I honestly think they played their entire album but instead of pausing between songs they just made progressions between them
> Anyway, the consequence was that the band after only got to play 1 song because there wasn't enough time.



Before I joined, Carpathia won a battle of the bands-style thing with the same setup, playing one 24-minute song. They talked to the organizers about it first, and the rules were thereafter amended to "about ten minutes in, you proggy bastards."


----------



## Double A

Lives Once Abstract said:


> Okay, if you guys are talking about like attack crabcore, yeah thats gay, but when you :kind of" squat and head bang like crazy it looks cool.




If you squat like that you had better be a woman relieving herself while camping in a national park of some sort.


----------



## Pendant

To all female singers: You can wear fucking anything you want at a gig from burqa to tanga only, I really couldn't care less as long as you stand there and be the front woman, the center of all power in the band.
Seriously, does every single woman believe she can sing but as soon as it's for an audience she can't get out a correct note?


----------



## ZEBOV

If you're not the only one providing live sound, make sure everyone you work with knows what the hell is going on. Today, I thought me and one of the other guys I work with were simply setting up the sound system for a show tomorrow, and I see a few bands bringing in gear, and I figured they were bringing their gear for tomorrow, and the other guy I work with was telling me to hurry up since I'm taking my time working on everything. After he tells me to hurry up for the third time, I asked, "You know today is Friday, right?" He said, "Yes." I said, "The show is tomorrow on the 19th." He said, "But the bands that are here now are playing tonight and they should've started at 6." I looked at the time on my phone and it was 7:14. Fail.


----------



## ZEBOV

Situation: Police say that if they are called back a 3rd time for noise pollution, the show is over.
Attempt to solve: Only put vocals through the PA, tell bands to keep the volume down.
Problem mostly gets fixed, then the next band enters the stage with their 2 guitar full stacks and Ampeg 8x10 cab and a 750 watt amp (aproximate). They're louder than the previous band that had the police called on them by this old fart that lives nearby. WAY louder. I told them what was up with the police and the old fart, and that they need to turn it down. No attempt was made to turn it down. I go to turn it down, they turn it back up, and then I managed to find a quiet moment to tell the whole venue that if this old bitch call the police again, it's over. (Surprisingly, I didn't need a mic.)
GET A FUCKING CLUE! TURN DOWN YOUR SHIT OR YOU'LL FUCK IT UP FOR EVERYONE ELSE, AND THE OTHER BANDS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO PLAY AFTER YOU WILL BE REALLY PISSED BECAUSE YOU FUCKED IT UP FOR THEM, AND WORD WILL SPREAD THAT YOUR BAND IS MADE OF A BUNCH OF DISRESPECTFUL ASSHOLES, AND IT WILL BE HARD TO GET BOOKED AND BANDS WON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH YOU!


This was my first time I was a stage manager. This was kind of a "trial by fire" for me too. My experience tonight has taught me something.... next time, flip the circut breaker, and get them off the stage. Sure, you'll piss the band off badly, but it's better than letting them fuck over the 5 bands after them.
Police were called a 4th time, and luckily, it was a different shift, and apparently they didn't know that earlier today the Captain said "Turn it down or turn it off."


----------



## JohnIce

Two things regarding line-checks:

When you go onstage, just make sure your guitar has sound. It's not cool, but just do it, palm mute a string once and see that it works. I saw a band the other day who went onstage and you couldn't hear one of the guitarists. After the first song he says: "Well, my monitor is completely dead, I can't hear anything!" Then, he waits. Just stands there, doesn't touch his guitar. Complete silence except for the sound techs telling him nothing's wrong at their end. Dude still does nothing. Until the singer gets awkward, and starts the next song. Still can't hear the guitar player. After the second song, somehow the guitar player has realized his amp isn't making any sound. It was a loaned amp, so the sound tech has to run onstage and try to fix it. Two fucking songs into the set!

This could all have been saved if the dude just tried his goddamn signal before starting the first song. And when you ask for the sound tech to change something about your sound or your monitor mix, you PLAY! If you really have to stop your set to troubleshoot something about your sound, it's easier for both the tech and you if you're playing, but it's also a lot less awkward for the audience than just staying completely silent staring at the sound tech as if waiting for him to do a trick or something.

However, the opposite applies. Don't make unnecessary noise onstage, nor at sound check for that matter. Don't play between songs just cause you think it's fun, no-one else does. And during soundcheck, if your guitar sounds good and your monitor is fine, then shut up until you're asked specifically by the sound tech to play something! I see it all the time, sound tech asks the bass to play something, and the guitar players rolls his volume down a bit and does warmups or a bunch of shred licks to impress a girlfriend from the other band. If the sound tech asks for bass, he wants to hear bass, and if you're not playing bass, and have no intention to play bass, SHUT UP!


----------



## yingmin

I hope someone kicked that guy's shins unmercifully.


----------



## Treeunit212

yingmin said:


> I hope someone kicked that guy's shins unmercifully.



 for 420th post.

And now it's ruined...


----------



## somniumaeternum

Josh Geohagan said:


> That isn't what I meant. That's funny.
> 
> I meant more along the lines of this:
> 
> 
> See 1:35 for the running in place. See the rest of the video for crab squats.
> 
> terrible stuff.





That's just about the lamest thing I've ever seen. Seriously. Cher-style vocal tuning mixed with dudes with tight jeans, girl shoes, and just general emo. I feel like I've somehow been corrupted by the gheyness and compulsively need to rake my skin off. 

Damn.. why did I have to see this??


----------



## 5656130

dude i saw a band last night and their guitarist sorta crab squatted and head banged but i forgave him cause he was one djenting mofo


----------



## 5656130

ZEBOV said:


> Situation: Police say that if they are called back a 3rd time for noise pollution, the show is over.
> Attempt to solve: Only put vocals through the PA, tell bands to keep the volume down.
> Problem mostly gets fixed, then the next band enters the stage with their 2 guitar full stacks and Ampeg 8x10 cab and a 750 watt amp (aproximate). They're louder than the previous band that had the police called on them by this old fart that lives nearby. WAY louder. I told them what was up with the police and the old fart, and that they need to turn it down. No attempt was made to turn it down. I go to turn it down, they turn it back up, and then I managed to find a quiet moment to tell the whole venue that if this old bitch call the police again, it's over. (Surprisingly, I didn't need a mic.)
> GET A FUCKING CLUE! TURN DOWN YOUR SHIT OR YOU'LL FUCK IT UP FOR EVERYONE ELSE, AND THE OTHER BANDS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO PLAY AFTER YOU WILL BE REALLY PISSED BECAUSE YOU FUCKED IT UP FOR THEM, AND WORD WILL SPREAD THAT YOUR BAND IS MADE OF A BUNCH OF DISRESPECTFUL ASSHOLES, AND IT WILL BE HARD TO GET BOOKED AND BANDS WON'T WANT TO PLAY WITH YOU!
> 
> 
> This was my first time I was a stage manager. This was kind of a "trial by fire" for me too. My experience tonight has taught me something.... next time, flip the circut breaker, and get them off the stage. Sure, you'll piss the band off badly, but it's better than letting them fuck over the 5 bands after them.
> Police were called a 4th time, and luckily, it was a different shift, and apparently they didn't know that earlier today the Captain said "Turn it down or turn it off."



dude where you at cafe 549 0.0 i was to where you the stage hand shouting WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY MICS!!!1 and scarring the shit out of everyone


----------



## 5656130

after reading your post again zebov if you were there i do believe that was you zebov i love you youre my favorite soundguy ever


----------



## Shinto

WTF is a djenting mofo? People these days...


----------



## 5656130

Shinto said:


> WTF is a djenting mofo? People these days...


thanks now i feel stupid :/


----------



## somniumaeternum

Was going to comment about writing legibly but screw it.. deleting it.


----------



## redskyharbor

Crabcore and the related stage movements need to go away. Very, *very* far away. And never come back, ever. Teabagging your guitar/trying to wipe your balls on the stage in skintight jeans that expose unwanted package to innocent bystanders miles away might be "down with the kids" these days, but personally it makes my blood boil.


----------



## ZEBOV

5656130 said:


> dude where you at cafe 549 0.0 i was to where you the stage hand shouting WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY MICS!!!1 and scarring the shit out of everyone


THAT'S ME! I looked everywhere for them, and I was starting to think someone ran off with them. I got results though. The mics were found very quickly since I had 20 pairs of eyes looking for them.


----------



## ZEBOV

REMEMBER TO BRING YOUR FUCKING POWER CABLES!
FUCK!!!!


----------



## Bradd

dont rock up to a gig and go "awww is that the drum kit?" yes cunt, thats the drum kit, it has a floor tom and a rack tom, fucking deal with it, u wanna have a kit with a bajillion fucking toms? then go set your own gig up.

kids these days.


----------



## Soubi7string

Bradd said:


> dont rock up to a gig and go "awww is that the drum kit?" yes cunt, thats the drum kit, it has a floor tom and a rack tom, fucking deal with it, u wanna have a kit with a bajillion fucking toms? then go set your own gig up.
> 
> kids these days.



shouldn't provide shit anyways.


----------



## JohnIce

ZEBOV said:


> REMEMBER TO BRING YOUR FUCKING POWER CABLES!
> FUCK!!!!



I'm actually guilty of doing this last gig... the power to my pedal board got left behind in a wall socket. I ended up borrowing one from a nearby TV, which I then failed to put back in place without taking down the TV... wasn't a proud moment for me.


----------



## sell2792

Treeunit212 said:


> I remember the Summer of 09' this band called KING from Flint, MI came up to Northern Michigan to play a show. My band opened for them and as we were finishing up getting our equipment off the stage, we asked their bassist if it was okay to leave our stage box (for standing on) there. He said it was fine and so we stood back to watch their set.
> 
> The second they start, the vocalist smashes his foot through the box and punches a hole in the wall. The fight that followed got two of the members arrested, and they even brought a fire truck to block the exit so they couldn't get away.
> 
> Moral is: Don't destroy a venue if you ever want to play within 100 miles of it again.


 
They are some crazy fuckers. I've seen em' a few times in Jackson and Detroit and the shows always get out of hand within like 5 minutes of their set starting. 
At 789 one of their fans couldnt keep his faggotry in the pit and took out an entire table of merch. Their was broken glass and CDs everywhere , drinks spilled all over, the table broke, and whatever band had been at that table was furious.


----------



## BuckarooBanzai

JohnIce said:


> Although it's not incredibly essential, bringing a backup guitar and a few cables (1/4" and XLR, Midi if you use it) is a very good thing. Bringing an extra guitar can be a hassle but if something does fuck up at least you know you have a guitar you're comfortable with, it's already onstage with you, and you don't have to bother any other band to lend you their gear.
> 
> This is especially important if you use a non-average tuning or an ERG... I once lent out my standard-tuned PRS Custom to a guitarist who broke his string, and when I got it back it was tuned to something like G#ADGBD... so I have to spend the first minutes of gig-time tuning back up and getting it to settle again, then while we were playing the band left and I never got so much as a thanks.
> 
> If you tune to standard and know the other bands on the bill, fine, leave out the backup guitar... but borrowing a complete stranger's guitar and tuning it to shit is not cool.



Random guitar borrowing story:

One time I played a show where my friends' band was second to last and I had already played. My buddy's PRS SE broke a string so I decided to lend him my guitar, which was literally right next to the stage. I was tuned a half-step down, so I grabbed the tuner and started tuning it to Drop D. About a minute into me doing this an audience member comes over and asks my friend what his guitar's tuned to. He tells him and the guy says "Forget tuning - my guitar's in my car; I'll go get it." I finish tuning 20 seconds later and hand the guitar over. Last song is played and buddy thanks me but says he just couldn't get down and comfortable on my guitar. Fair enough - it's not his and it's the end of Winter so it definitely needs a truss rod tweak and all. As I'm grabbing the instrument from him the aforementioned dude walks up and asks me what kind of guitar it is, and I tell him it's PRS ripoff made by Rondo - nothing special, and it doesn't play too well at the moment. He asks me how much it costs, and I told him that it was around $200 and I did a bunch of work on it to make it sound, play, and hold tune better. "Well no wonder!" he said. "It's cheap and it's not a real PRS!"  Later on I walked past him outside and he was telling a few people about the 3mm action at the 24th fret on his Ibanez.

TL;DR - Someone at a show who wasn't playing a show brought his electric guitar and was having a pissing contest with it. Given that he dressed as though he was going to a Korn concert, looked to be in his mid to late 20s and was at a show where the next-oldest person was 7 years younger than him I surmise that he works at Wawa and lives with his parents. Given this I think that although his guitar has lower action than mine I think I still win 

Also, Tuck & Patti: Pick & Fingerstyle Techniques. Scroll down a tad and read the long list of gig happenings, such as...


> drummer and delusional would-be front man jumping off the drums in the middle of a song and mistakenly chanting "we don't need no drummer to keep that funky beat" to a dance floor packed with suddenly hostile former dancers,





> swimming pool party turning into orgy with splashing on inexperienced solo electric guitarist sitting beside pool doing his first solo gig and fielding endless requests for the same song he had just played yet again,





> drummer watching ball game on portable TV with headphones throughout performance



Good shit.


----------



## ghostred7

ZEBOV said:


> No, this is attack of the clones.




+1 for the guy w/ a Darth Nihilus avatar making another SW reference in a thread 

Seriously.....pretty much everything's been covered from my experience. My self-made rules of live gigging is pretty much in line w/ what everyone else has been saying.

1. You do NOT need to hear your guitar from the amp (stage volume). If you have a decent PA & sound guy, you'll get all you'll need from the monitors. Less room to work with = unbalanced sound.

2. Bring extras. Chords, picks, strings, guitars, condoms, water, beer, <insert vice here>. I bring extra instrument mics (SM-57s, even tho I have line out....it **could** go bad), speaker and instrument cables, about 3-4 PACKS of picks (i'm horrible about loosing them).

3. Ego stays at home. You're there to entertain, not BE entertained. If they crowd's not reacting, pissing them off even worse won't help your cause.

4. Keep bar owners happy. If they say lower volume, do it. Bottom line...they want people happy & drunk. Happier people at a show buys more drinks. Bar owners notice and will invite you back. They have crap sales, they'll blame the band(s), even if not their fault. Some bar owners want you to GUARANTEE a certain # of people.

5. Put on a show. Don't ask each other what is next between songs/song clusters.

6. Have fun. If you are on-stage having fun, that "good time" energy will fall onto your crowd, which in turn satisfies #4.


----------



## Bouillestfu

somniumaeternum said:


> That's just about the lamest thing I've ever seen. Seriously. Cher-style vocal tuning mixed with dudes with tight jeans, girl shoes, and just general emo. I feel like I've somehow been corrupted by the gheyness and compulsively need to rake my skin off.
> 
> Damn.. why did I have to see this??



Dude. It's not Cher-Style vocals. THEY'RE MOTHER HUMPING AUTO-TUNED LIKE A BUNCH OF AKON/T-PAIN WANNABES!



Back on subject. I know it's been mentioned but I can't stress this enough DO NOT SPIT WATER INTO THE AUDIENCE! You can do the Alexi Laiho thing and spit it on yourself, but that's fucking it! Oh and you can do the other Alexi Laiho thing and cook sausage on stage and give some to the audience! *see chaos ridden years*


----------



## tacotiklah

Something that I've done on my own and was an immediate success:

If you want to use a full stack, put on cab on each side of the stage. My lead guitarist had a family emergency and had to flake out on our last gig, but he let me borrow his cab for this very reason. It had the fullness of 2 guitarists, but with less likelihood of something going wrong.

I plan to buy another cab (our new lead guitarist already did this) and and cross-match them with the new lead guitarist's 2 cabs. This way we can hear each other with no problems.


----------



## Treeunit212

ghstofperdition said:


> Something that I've done on my own and was an immediate success:
> 
> If you want to use a full stack, put on cab on each side of the stage. My lead guitarist had a family emergency and had to flake out on our last gig, but he let me borrow his cab for this very reason. It had the fullness of 2 guitarists, but with less likelihood of something going wrong.
> 
> I plan to buy another cab (our new lead guitarist already did this) and and cross-match them with the new lead guitarist's 2 cabs. This way we can hear each other with no problems.



Genius.


----------



## Pascal-Darrell

Don´t play "Asian Hooker" in Tokio unless you´re Steel Panther !!!  ^^

just kidding


----------



## Treeunit212

ghstofperdition said:


> I plan to buy another cab (our new lead guitarist already did this) and and cross-match them with the new lead guitarist's 2 cabs. This way we can hear each other with no problems.



But wait... Wouldn't that kind of ruin the whole point of having separate cabs or sides of the stage? no matter what you did your guitar sound would be coming out of both sides...


----------



## Bradd

Soubi7string said:


> shouldn't provide shit anyways.




trust me bud, when you put on a gig and have like 10 bands playing in the space of 5-6 hours, you have to keep the same kit.

but yeah, our drummer doesn't mind letting other people use his kit, but it just shits me when u see them get on stage and the drummer is like "awww what the fuck, how am i supposed to play on this?"


----------



## Soubi7string

Bradd said:


> trust me bud, when you put on a gig and have like 10 bands playing in the space of 5-6 hours, you have to keep the same kit.
> 
> but yeah, our drummer doesn't mind letting other people use his kit, but it just shits me when u see them get on stage and the drummer is like "awww what the fuck, how am i supposed to play on this?"



......I redraw said statement when this applies.
until then
shouldn't have to provide shit except a mixing board and that kinda stuff


----------



## Bradd

Soubi7string said:


> ......I redraw said statement when this applies.
> until then
> shouldn't have to provide shit except a mixing board and that kinda stuff




Yeh, as much as I'd love to only provide said stuff, i'd also like to only have like 3 (max 4) bands on at a show (hence all bands could use their own gear) but here in Cairns, Aust, we have to put on around 10 bands so that we get more people to the show, the crowds here are pretty selfish and will only go if "their mates" band is playing. it sucks but oh well, i don't care, im moving to brisbane (capital city) at the end of this year


----------



## Obfuscator

I hate it when a band doesn't headbang with the beat of the song.


----------



## ZEBOV

Bradd said:


> trust me bud, when you put on a gig and have like 10 bands playing in the space of 5-6 hours, you have to keep the same kit.
> 
> but yeah, our drummer doesn't mind letting other people use his kit, but it just shits me when u see them get on stage and the drummer is like "awww what the fuck, how am i supposed to play on this?"


That reminds me of this: First, put your cymbals on your stands BEFORE you have to get on stage. It makes setup a lot faster. If the time between bands is only 10 minutes and your drums and hardware is 100% torn down, you will be the only reason why the show ended late.
Also, when the time between bands is short, and the sound guy/sound engineer says "Bring your drums," that means to bring your drums, NOT YOUR FUCKING CYMBALS AND HARDWARE!


----------



## Guitarman700

Obfuscator said:


> I hate it when a band doesn't headbang with the beat of the song.



It's kind of hard to headbang in 74.5/56 time.


----------



## scottro202

ZEBOV said:


> Also, when the time between bands is short, and the sound guy/sound engineer says "Bring your drums," that means to bring your drums, NOT YOUR FUCKING CYMBALS AND HARDWARE!



I've never had a show where that was the case. If anything, they'll tell you to bring your cymbals and hardware, and use house drums. And if a sound guy told me to bring drums, I'd assume he meant the whole kit.


----------



## 5656130

I had a problem with a band saturday telling the crowd to start moving and dancing because they were filming...I turn and the dudes mom is filming us with a camcorder. It was ok once but they told us like 5 times and it was annoying as hell. I forgave them though because they were an awesome band.


----------



## ZEBOV

scottro202 said:


> I've never had a show where that was the case. If anything, they'll tell you to bring your cymbals and hardware, and use house drums. And if a sound guy told me to bring drums, I'd assume he meant the whole kit.


No, what I meant was that I wanted him to put his drums on the stage. With the various fill-in-the-blankcore bands around here that are run by high school kids, everyone uses their own gear. When I say "Bring your drums," I want your snare, toms, and bass drum on the stage so I can mic them while you put your (already assembled) hardware on the stage.


----------



## scottro202

ZEBOV said:


> No, what I meant was that I wanted him to put his drums on the stage. With the various fill-in-the-blankcore bands around here that are run by high school kids, everyone uses their own gear. When I say "Bring your drums," I want your snare, toms, and bass drum on the stage so I can mic them while you put your (already assembled) hardware on the stage.



Ahhhh, gotcha. Silly drummers


----------



## freddyg832002

Popsyche said:


> Control your fucking stage volume!
> 
> You are not playing in Wembley. The club holds 23 people including that hot chick behind the bar, your band and the clubowner/scumbag. No need for you to crank up to get your "tone". Learn to generate your tone at a volume commensurate with your current situation and surroundings.


 

I've seen a few bands that did this and even a great band is really hard to enjoy when your ears are bleeding. Also I had a singer walk up behind me and a friend while the rest of the band was doing a instrumental and put his arm on me and my friends shoulder to tell us he wanted us closer to the stage and moshing. My friend and I where like who the hell do you think you are man get your hand off me I don't know you!


----------



## freddyg832002

5656130 said:


> I had a problem with a band saturday telling the crowd to start moving and dancing because they were filming...I turn and the dudes mom is filming us with a camcorder. It was ok once but they told us like 5 times and it was annoying as hell. I forgave them though because they were an awesome band.


 

Where we at the same show? lol. But Seriously I've seen that too.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

Something the last thread I started reminded me:

Don't rush to the stage. Instead, take the time to sort yourself out before your first gig (or before you get onstage really). 

The basic stuff that's on the other thread is often overlooked, especially for up and coming bands who are eager to hit the stage. That's fine but rushing to the first gig before you can play your music well and professionally (even writing music to a high standard) will make you suffer. 

Experienced musos who are (re)starting a band shouldn't have these issues, but the young and entusiastic bands won't have the experience or attention to recognise this. 

Even if it means investing YEARS into practice/setting up/undestanding gear/social etiquette/songwriting etc, before hitting the first show (and even then it's gonna be rough) then by all means, do so. It's only beneficial in the end.


----------



## yingmin

Bouillestfu said:


> Dude. It's not Cher-Style vocals. THEY'RE MOTHER HUMPING AUTO-TUNED LIKE A BUNCH OF AKON/T-PAIN WANNABES!




That's where the whole Autotune thing started, back in 1998. T-Pain ripped his Autotune gimmick (which is really all he has) from Cher.


----------



## Loomer

One thing, for the venues: 

Making sure there's food for the bands takes so little effort, so why not do it?!


----------



## ZEBOV

This has been said before, but it seems some people need remindin: Don't be an asshole to the sound engineer/ sound guy (yes, there's a difference). They will fuck your sound up.
This evening, I muted everything I could. The only thing people could hear was the snare, cymbals, and guitars.


----------



## samincolour

DO :

- Have fun, SMILE, actually look like you're enjoying it! If you fuck up, shrug it off, no-one noticed anyway.

- TUNE before you play, and prior to every set you play decide on designated tune-up points. We go:

Tune up and double check tuning before set
Intro
Two songs
Tune
Two songs
Tune
Last two songs.

More often than not I end up checking tuning in between every song. It makes all the difference, and so many bands don't do it! Also, if you DO tune up, MAKE SURE YOUR TUNER HAS A MUTE OUT, like a TU-2. Nothing worse than listening to a band tune up full volume!

- Talk to the crowd, make jokes, take the piss out of them, closer to/invite them onto the stage. Give them a show. Make sure they're having a good time, and that they're talking about you to their friends afterwards.

- If you're high up on the bill, mention the other bands, especially if you're bigger than them. We always do, we remember what it was like opening every show and how awesome it was when a band higher up said 'GIVE IT UP FOR THOSE GUYS!'. Shout-outs gain you respect and friends in different places.

- Have a short changeover time. Practice packing down and setting up at rehearsal. If you have a short changeover time, promoters love you, fact! Also, LEARN HOW THE DRUMS GO TOGETHER. Know how each others stuff works and help them set up!

- Perform EVERY show like it's the biggest one you've ever played, even if there's only two people there. You never know who those people are. If you underwhelm anyone, that reputation sticks like shit to a blanket.

- Be prepared for everything. Spare cables, spare guitar, spare amp (if you have one), spare strap, power supplies, plectrums, strings, everything! Don't ask other bands for shit.


DON'T

- Piss off the soundguy - They will make you sound like shit if they don't like you!

- Piss off the promoter/venue - Speaks for itself really.

- Tell everyone to fucking move every two seconds - People want to be entertained, not commanded. If they want to mosh/two-step/whatever, they will do because they like you, not because you told them to!

- Bang on about merch, tours etc - If you're on tour, mention it, and by all means let people know you have merch. Just don't bang on about it for fucking ages, pleading people to buy merch is begging, which is something people don't want at a show.

- Don't get too shitfaced before you go on! Drunk bands aren't good bands! Limit your drinking BEFORE gigs!


There's plenty more, but basically don't be wankers, just enjoy yourself!


----------



## Varcolac

samincolour said:


> There's plenty more, but basically don't be wankers, just enjoy yourself!



Sound advice for life right there.


----------



## penguin_316

May have been touched on already, but DO NOT let your vocalist mumble between sets. If your gonna talk to the audience make sure to have your speaking voice engaged and ennunciate your words. Nothing sucks worse than...."Okay guys, this next song is ***insert mumbles***"

Also, make sure someone in the crowd verifies the crowds perception of the instruments stage volume....really hurts the band if any one instrument is dramatically louder than the others.


----------



## ghostred7

Samincoluor's post should be a sticky  PERFECT list of advice there IMO


----------



## Jogeta

TL: DR

but just in case it hasn't been mentioned before....

don't be naked in front of <18's


----------



## Off_The_Heezay

A small addition to the whole tuning thing:

A great idea is to buy a volume pedal or even just a simple mute switch, and run it after your tuner. That way, you can run your signal through the 'Bypass out' or whatever its labelled on your tuner. This gives you the advantage of being able to mute to tune between songs while also being able to check tuning on any long, held notes during a song.

Also, one of my personal hates (and this is purely down to taste) - please make sure there is at least a little bit of dirt on your bass. It makes the sound gel together so much better. There is nothing worse than hearing a band where the guitarists have their god awful solid-state pieces of crap distorted beyond recognition, and then theres a totally clean bass under it.

/rant.


----------



## Treeunit212

Off_The_Heezay said:


> A small addition to the whole tuning thing:
> 
> A great idea is to buy a volume pedal or even just a simple mute switch, and run it after your tuner. That way, you can run your signal through the 'Bypass out' or whatever its labelled on your tuner. This gives you the advantage of being able to mute to tune between songs while also being able to check tuning on any long, held notes during a song.
> 
> Also, one of my personal hates (and this is purely down to taste) - please make sure there is at least a little bit of dirt on your bass. It makes the sound gel together so much better. There is nothing worse than hearing a band where the guitarists have their god awful solid-state pieces of crap distorted beyond recognition, and then theres a totally clean bass under it.
> 
> /rant.



As far as i know, most tuning pedals (such as my Boss TU-2) automatically mute when activated.

Also completely agree with some overdrive in the bass tone.


----------



## Off_The_Heezay

Yeah mate, but what i meant is if you run a tuner and then a separate mute switch, you can tune mid-song aswell (say you've got a few bars of an open string, you can quickly check your tuning then). Not really necessary but it can be useful. Didn't really explain it too well though haha.


----------



## Ben.Last

Off_The_Heezay said:


> Yeah mate, but what i meant is if you run a tuner and then a separate mute switch, you can tune mid-song aswell (say you've got a few bars of an open string, you can quickly check your tuning then). Not really necessary but it can be useful. Didn't really explain it too well though haha.



I think what he meant is that, if the tuner is working, it's going to be muted, so you wouldn't be able to play with it on.


----------



## Off_The_Heezay

Most tuners (definitely the Boss one) have two outputs - one that mutes, and one that doesn't.


----------



## tacotiklah

Treeunit212 said:


> But wait... Wouldn't that kind of ruin the whole point of having separate cabs or sides of the stage? no matter what you did your guitar sound would be coming out of both sides...



Well I see that as being part of the point of doing it. I would be using the other guitarists cab like its a monitor. This would help me know what he is doing at all times and vice versa. Also I see it as a way to more easily blend the overall guitar sound during soundcheck. Even though my vocalist is pretty good at helping us adjust volumes and help us get a good overall sound, me and the other guitarist have much better ears for our amps. Cross matching the cabs can help keep us from being way louder than the other and give us better results at soundcheck.

As a fan of local metal music, one thing that drives me insane is when a lead guitarist in a band is shredding a sick solo, but due to the pit forcing me to stand on the opposite side, I miss about half of what is going on due to the cab being angled away. If they had crossed cabs, then I would have been able to hear both the lead and the riff under it more clearly.

Note that when I say crossing cabs im referring to both guitarists having full stacks but they have only one of those cabs on the same side as them. ie, one of his cabs is stacked up on one of mine and the same thing on his side of the stage. Its not to act like we are playing wembly, but just as a way to get a huge overall sound.


----------



## caskettheclown

Don't swap around 5 kickass guitars and play on a shitty amp.

Have decent equipment or at least equipment suitable for your genre. I know not everyone is gonna have PRS private stock and Mesa's but don't buy a 100 dollar amp and a starcaster and expect to play double dropped negative f#.

Also for the vocalist, don't be a one trick pony, and for fucks sake have some control of your voice


Also not everyone is going to like your band so get over it.
Some people like catchy choruses and some like uber detuned bass breakdowns and so on.

Its ok to kiss a little ass but don't lose your integrity.
If the sound guy or owner really stuck his neck out there for you, say thanks and buy him a beer/blowjob.



ALSO 
I don't care if you are a christian band a buddhist band or a satanist band or w/e, *STOP PREACHING BEFORE AND AFTER THE SET*.
This local band was doing this and it cut into my old bands time and OMFG I was pissed cause it happens at every show they play so I felt I needed to do something. SOO I ran up on stage shoved his ass off the stage and said "This isn't church so STFU and let us play our show that we worked our asses off to get"

I'm a really nice guy most of the time but don't waste 10 minutes of OUR time for bullshit. I understand people will run into each others time by a few seconds every now and then or something like that but shit.


----------



## CrazyDean

I hate it when a band will do a cover then completely leave out the solo. It's ok to improvise a solo if you don't feel the need to learn it note for note. The same goes for the radio. They always cut off the outro!


----------



## Soubi7string

caskettheclown said:


> Don't swap around 5 kickass guitars and play on a shitty amp.
> 
> Have decent equipment or at least equipment suitable for your genre. I know not everyone is gonna have PRS private stock and Mesa's but don't buy a 100 dollar amp and a starcaster and expect to play double dropped negative f#.
> 
> Also for the vocalist, don't be a one trick pony, and for fucks sake have some control of your voice
> 
> 
> Also not everyone is going to like your band so get over it.
> Some people like catchy choruses and some like uber detuned bass breakdowns and so on.
> 
> Its ok to kiss a little ass but don't lose your integrity.
> If the sound guy or owner really stuck his neck out there for you, say thanks and buy him a beer/blowjob.
> 
> 
> 
> ALSO
> I don't care if you are a christian band a buddhist band or a satanist band or w/e, *STOP PREACHING BEFORE AND AFTER THE SET*.
> This local band was doing this and it cut into my old bands time and OMFG I was pissed cause it happens at every show they play so I felt I needed to do something. SOO I ran up on stage shoved his ass off the stage and said "This isn't church so STFU and let us play our show that we worked our asses off to get"
> 
> I'm a really nice guy most of the time but don't waste 10 minutes of OUR time for bullshit. I understand people will run into each others time by a few seconds every now and then or something like that but shit.



........can you please personally attend every single show at this venue called THE WAREHOUSE and just go all george carlin and apeshit on the bands? please?!


----------



## Treeunit212

caskettheclown said:


> I know not everyone is gonna have PRS private stock and Mesa's but don't buy a 100 dollar amp and a starcaster and expect to play double dropped negative f#.



HAY.

My first guitar was a Starcaster...


----------



## caskettheclown

Treeunit212 said:


> HAY.
> 
> My first guitar was a Starcaster...



We all started out with crap guitars don't worry


----------



## Soubi7string

caskettheclown said:


> We all started out with crap guitars don't worry



yeah, first guitar was a BC Rch warlock bronze series


----------



## Shrooms

caskettheclown said:


> Don't swap around 5 kickass guitars and play on a shitty amp.
> 
> Have decent equipment or at least equipment suitable for your genre. I know not everyone is gonna have PRS private stock and Mesa's but don't buy a 100 dollar amp and a starcaster and expect to play double dropped negative f#.
> 
> Also for the vocalist, don't be a one trick pony, and for fucks sake have some control of your voice
> 
> 
> Also not everyone is going to like your band so get over it.
> Some people like catchy choruses and some like uber detuned bass breakdowns and so on.
> 
> Its ok to kiss a little ass but don't lose your integrity.
> If the sound guy or owner really stuck his neck out there for you, say thanks and buy him a beer/blowjob.
> 
> 
> 
> ALSO
> I don't care if you are a christian band a buddhist band or a satanist band or w/e, *STOP PREACHING BEFORE AND AFTER THE SET*.
> This local band was doing this and it cut into my old bands time and OMFG I was pissed cause it happens at every show they play so I felt I needed to do something. SOO I ran up on stage shoved his ass off the stage and said "This isn't church so STFU and let us play our show that we worked our asses off to get"
> 
> I'm a really nice guy most of the time but don't waste 10 minutes of OUR time for bullshit. I understand people will run into each others time by a few seconds every now and then or something like that but shit.



THIS. Come to The Cove in Geneva ohio. I swear to god. Largest collection of Bronze series BC Richs and 10 Watt Marshall MG users EVER. 

As for my tip... Keep fucking quiet in between songs so that when your vocalist needs to tell people you have merch/next song they know what the hell he's talking about. I've seen to many bands where Joe DudeMcBro thinks he can bust out a shatty improv solo even though he's been playing for 3 days. JUST SHUT THE  UP!


----------



## chronocide

Nobody wants to hear you tune up.

If your singer isn't funny, make sure he doesn't attempt to tell shit jokes between all your songs. 

Don't put four guitars on a rack beside your amp and only use one.

Similarly, don't take four guitars just for the sake of switching instruments to show of your gear.

Don't leave as soon as you finish unless you _really_ have to catch a train.

Don't speak in your growly voice between songs, you just sound like a cunt.

Don't play a whimsical cover of a recent pop tune, it's not funny and it's been done to death. In fact do. Then hopefully everyone will tell you you're shit and you'll give up and fuck off.

Unless it's really, really, really hot, don't take your shirt off, you macho prick.

Even if you've just got your new tribal tattoo you think is the shit, the above still applies.

Don't ever, ever, ever make any excuses for yourselves. If you're shit, that's tough. If you fuck up a song, that's tough. Saying "This is a new one we've not practiced much so excuse us if we mess it up" beforehand will not make anyone excuse you, it'll just make them expect it to be shit. They'll probably be proven right.

Don't just cross your fingers and hope that the bass player's backing vocals are alright since you've never been able to hear them at rehearsal clearly. Take his mic off him before he gets carried away and makes you all look stupid.

Don't crabwalk. You clowns. Not even if you're Abbath.

Don't wink at the hot lass at the barrier. She's only here to see the band after you because her friend's fucking one of them. She doesn't want to be here and she's going to laugh about the wank that gave her the eye later.


----------



## Soubi7string

look at the crowd when you play,not the back wall or the roof.
act like you own the place.
EAR PLUGS, for the love of the almighty, wear some ear protection.even if its a fucking cotton ball taped to the inside of your ear, just wear some. I have been seeing/hearing some bands as of late where I can tell they can't hear shit and they just crank it up in order to hear more.
stretch a few minutes before the band before you finishes.It helps out PHENOMENALLY.
be sure to have eaten, you're well rested and the like.It will make you more comfy than if you were hungry,tired,sore, and all that shit.
find someone honest,take them to your practice one day and ask them if you can fucking SING.I HEAR more bands that can't hold a note to save their lives than I care too.


----------



## 7StringedBeast

It has probably been mentioned before...

This is the most annoying thing IMO, when I am on stage or in the crowd, and I've even seen "pros" do it:

People with microphones: Don't tell the crowd to go insane or mosh or w/e every 5 minutes or in between every song. If you are in need to do so, it's probably cause your live performance sucks or the crowd isn't there to see you. During your set you won't be able to fix any of the two, so stfu, play, and that's it.


----------



## JohnIce

caskettheclown said:


> Have decent equipment or at least equipment suitable for your genre. I know not everyone is gonna have PRS private stock and Mesa's but don't buy a 100 dollar amp and a starcaster and expect to play double dropped negative f#.



Most of your points I agreed with but I think this is just ridiculous... who are you to say kids can't go onstage just because they don't have optimised gear? That's the most un-rock&roll thing I've read in a long while  Being onstage playing music is a dream that many kids never even get to try, and if they are passionate enough about it that they can form a band, write songs, rehearse and book gigs, that's something commendable!

Anyone's free to play fucking ABBA tunes on a harp if that's what gets them pumped, music is a public right, not some elitistic privilege for those who can afford great gear.


----------



## larry

i'm more inclined to agree with casket's post concerning stage worthy gear, as i have
experienced playing shows pre and post mesa. needless to say i'll never go back to my
old crate amp. 

though, a different perspective is in order. 

i had seen a local band called 'suggestion'
who's guitar player had a behringer 112 solid state combo and something 
that looked like a super beat up jackson or kramer 6 string.
mic'd up he sounded fine, and he could play his ass off. so this guy understood his gear and could make it work for him.

shitty gear shouldn't keep anyone from playing a show, but he/she should understand
that not every venue will have good sound guy and PA system. so it is better to 
have decent rig incase you need to produce the extra volume. A good rig will
accentuate as well as amplify what's being played, so if you have busted chops your
poor technique will be presented loud and clear.


----------



## chronocide

I don't think anyone would argue that it's not better to have decent gear. Just that we shouldn't discourage people from playing live if they don't.


----------



## Ben.Last

Wayne Static plays through a fucking MG and a sub-$1000 guitar and, like their music or not, Static X put on great live shows to sellout crowds


----------



## caskettheclown

JohnIce said:


> Most of your points I agreed with but I think this is just ridiculous... who are you to say kids can't go onstage just because they don't have optimised gear? That's the most un-rock&roll thing I've read in a long while  Being onstage playing music is a dream that many kids never even get to try, and if they are passionate enough about it that they can form a band, write songs, rehearse and book gigs, that's something commendable!
> 
> Anyone's free to play fucking ABBA tunes on a harp if that's what gets them pumped, music is a public right, not some elitistic privilege for those who can afford great gear.



 Not what I meant at all. You are misconstruing it. i I'm not going to argue with you though, we all have different opinion and this thread wasn't made to argue. Its all good though I know where your coming from.


----------



## 7StringedBeast

caskettheclown said:


> Not what I meant at all. You are misconstruing it. i I'm not going to argue with you though, we all have different opinion and this thread wasn't made to argue. Its all good though I know where your coming from.



I believe I got what you meant there and I do agree.

You want a decent live sound, you gotta have proper gear - not high end, but...suited to what you are playing, not like a stock strat to play deathcore or 6" speaker for chugging in the low F#.

Or am I trippin' too hahah?


----------



## caskettheclown

7StringedBeast said:


> I believe I got what you meant there and I do agree.
> 
> You want a decent live sound, you gotta have proper gear - not high end, but...suited to what you are playing, not like a stock strat to play deathcore or 6" speaker for chugging in the low F#.
> 
> Or am I trippin' too hahah?




Basically yea you got it right


----------



## Ben.Last

The important part is, "suited to what you are playing"


----------



## JohnIce

caskettheclown said:


> Not what I meant at all. You are misconstruing it. i I'm not going to argue with you though, we all have different opinion and this thread wasn't made to argue. Its all good though I know where your coming from.



I fully agree that good gear is something to strive for, and should be a top priority investment. I also can't say there's anything negative about good gear, neither for the sound nor the joy of playing. It was just the tone of your post that left a sour taste in my mouth. But if that's not what you meant, I'm not going to argue with that 




Lern2swim said:


> The important part is, "suited to what you are playing"



This is entirely subjective, however... If you're in a metal band, EMG81's are perfectly suited for what you're playing but it doesn't automatically mean they sound good to you. One has to balance between trying to assume what the majority wants you to sound like, and what you want to express yourself. One example could be Pain of Salvation: a band that musically gets placed in the progressive metal category most of the time by listeners and concert promotors alike, touring with Dream Theater, Opeth and other blatantly metal sounding bands, yet PoS' actual _sound_ has more in common with old-school rock, such as Led Zeppelin. Many people cringe at this, myself included, imagining how awesome they'd sound with Dream Theater style guitar and drum production. But it's the artistic integrity of PoS that says they don't want to. I'd never argue with that.


----------



## ThisIsExile

Move around, I hate seeing the member just standing there. 
Drives me mad.


----------



## Ben.Last

ThisIsExile said:


> Move around, I hate seeing the member just standing there.



So, you'd like me to shake it back and forth? If I concentrate I could probably spin it like a propeller.


----------



## ZEBOV

Try bringing your best sounding cheap gear. Let's say you have a $500 Ibanez SR500/505/506, a $1500 Carvin, a $2200 Ibanez SR5006, $4000 Warwick Thumb, and a $6000 Ibanez Gerald Veasely signature bass. Try to bring only the $500 bass! If the others get damaged beyond repair or stolen, you're at a much heavier loss than if you only lost a $500 bass. The high dollar gear can be used for recording.
This applies to most gear.


----------



## Roth

I read this and became slightly irritated by all of you people complaining. You are all very judgemental and easy to comment how someone actions on stage annoys you or whatever. Manners with other bands you are gigging with should be universally mandatory as should mutual respect for the audience but you guys bitching because some one is tuning up, someone is trying too hard, someone moving about to much or someone not moving enough, whatever the comment. Get a grip and let the freedom of the music and the expression that is evokes be free as everyone acts differently. I am aware most of you guys have played endless shit gigs in your local pub or club to 3 people so maybe if thats the only gigs youre getting try looking at yourself and see if you can use your own words and comments to further your own bands.... otherwise STFU to be fair.


----------



## 7StringedBeast

Roth said:


> I read this and became slightly irritated by all of you people complaining. You are all very judgemental and easy to comment how someone actions on stage annoys you or whatever. Manners with other bands you are gigging with should be universally mandatory as should mutual respect for the audience but you guys bitching because some one is tuning up, someone is trying too hard, someone moving about to much or someone not moving enough, whatever the comment. Get a grip and let the freedom of the music and the expression that is evokes be free as everyone acts differently. I am aware most of you guys have played endless shit gigs in your local pub or club to 3 people so maybe if thats the only gigs youre getting try looking at yourself and see if you can use your own words and comments to further your own bands.... otherwise STFU to be fair.



This is more like advice for newbs, chill man...got pissed cause a lot of it applied to you or what?

Noone here is postulating rules for live performance, it's all opinions and random advice that matter as much as your post matters. Some of what has been posted here is good advice, like it or not.

Freedom of music doesn't mean you should go on making mistakes that prejudice your band image and sound when playing live. Shit gigs to 3 people can be well done gigs, they don't need to be shit gigs cause a new band is playing or the venue or crowd is small.


----------



## Murmel

This isn't so much for the performers but for the sound guy.

Don't be a fucking cunt to the band just because they're new to playing big stages and don't really know much.
I seriously wanted to shit our sound guy in the face when we had soundcheck today, he was soooooo nice to the next band that are more routined.


----------



## budda

Please also try to think outside the "Metal band" box when replying to this thread, perhaps?


----------



## Murmel

budda said:


> Please also try to think outside the "Metal band" box when replying to this thread, perhaps?



Also this. But moving around on stage doesn't just apply to metal bands. Headbanging on the other hand isn't that common in other genres... 
But this being a mostly metal oriented forum, it's understandable that most people think of metal stuff.


----------



## Shrooms

Meh, if you get on stage with a 10 watt Marshall MG and a B.C. Rich you need to have your legs ripped off.

Sorry but if you sound like shit and you have cheap equipment then obviously you suck and should never ever touch a guitar, and if you do you should be lit on fire and put out with a shovel.

/sarcasm. Just don't get on stage if YOU aren't happy with your sound.


----------



## misingonestring

Fuck now I don't wanna play live anymore.

Thanks guys.


----------



## Leuchty

To all the vocalists:

Please don't turn your back to the audience when trying to talk to the audience.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

Unless You're King Diamond...Don't play live.


----------



## the fuhrer

I don't get why everyone thinks you need a million dollar rig to establish your sound. Bands have been using cheap bullshit to sound different for years, and it works. Look at Danzig who records guitar through bass amps or Burzum who purposely uses the cheapest shit possible. Maybe it won't be as "djenty" as everyone wants but tons of artist have been using unconventional gear forever to sound different. Hell even Dime used solid state amps. People complain about every band sounding the same but then bitch about what makes certain bands distinctive.


----------



## Soubi7string

the fuhrer said:


> I don't get why everyone thinks you need a million dollar rig to establish your sound. Bands have been using cheap bullshit to sound different for years, and it works. Look at Danzig who records guitar through bass amps or Burzum who purposely uses the cheapest shit possible. Maybe it won't be as "djenty" as everyone wants but tons of artist have been using unconventional gear forever to sound different. Hell even Dime used solid state amps. People complain about every band sounding the same but then bitch about what makes certain bands distinctive.



I hope one day that us using Solid State amps will make us distinctive.....one can only dream......and bit crushers and odd FX.
on that note, people I strongly suggest you practice WITH your effects so you get used to them live.I have seen one too many a bands look franticly or too hard at their board like they're decoding an ancient text with Indiana Jones during a set.Really kills the feel of the song and the overall look of the liver performance.


----------



## pringles

Don't do this. I would fucking rip you apart.


----------



## ZEBOV

^That's my video. Come at me, bro. 


EDIT: I don't think you'll last very long on ss.org. You're treating the site like Twitter and you made a pointless post in the classifieds.


----------



## Treeunit212

Your laugh. So evil.


----------



## CrushingAnvil

Epic.


----------



## caskettheclown

ZEBOV said:


> Try bringing your best sounding cheap gear. Let's say you have a $500 Ibanez SR500/505/506, a $1500 Carvin, a $2200 Ibanez SR5006, $4000 Warwick Thumb, and a $6000 Ibanez Gerald Veasely signature bass. Try to bring only the $500 bass! If the others get damaged beyond repair or stolen, you're at a much heavier loss than if you only lost a $500 bass. The high dollar gear can be used for recording.
> This applies to most gear.



I agree! Not many people are going to appreciate the exotic woods in your guitar or the 3 inch maple top or something like that.

Also don't beat yourself up about little mistakes or even big ones. We all make them. Just remember to have fun. Thats all that matters. 


To the vocalist- your voice is an instrument so take care of it. Don't wear it out before you get on stage. We all know it will not sound its best if you are up singing/screaming every night but we can tell if you just don't care bout yourself or how you sound.

If the guitar player is playing a solo and thats the focus of the music for those 20 or 30 seconds or however long it is. DON'T get in front of him going nuts on stage. Let people have their time to shine or their 15 seconds of glory.

My cousins band was playing and he was playing a really good guitar solo (my opinion anyway) and the bass player just jumped in front of him going over the top nuts (he stuck out compared to the rest of the band) trying to steal the spotlight. 

Be aware of where you are playing and who your audience at the time will be. Some kinds of people want to hear songs that are catchy popular and aren't interested in your 18 minute progmetaljazzfusion song. Another thing if you are playing at a church, its kind of disrespectful to play a deicide cover.


Unless its extremely hot, the drummer is the only one allowed to wear short shorts. End of story.

Bring extra guitar picks. bring extra guitar picks. Bring extra guitar picks.


If you have songs that fans LOVE LOVE LOVE wayyyy more than the rest. Be sure to play a few no matter how sick of them you are. Thats how you sell shows.

This pertains mainly to very famous bands- If someone walks up to you and asks for a picture or an autograph or something like that. Don't be a dick to them. It'll only take a minute so deal with it. Its ok to politely ask them to leave you alone if a fan is being excessive about the questions and really hogging a lot of your time if you are busy though.

If you are playing a metal song and a string breaks, just palm mute and pinch harmonic a lot to cover it up lol.

If I "like" or am friends with your bands on a site. Don't message me every day asking me to promote your band. Shit get olds QUICK. Make a status about it from time to time and go advertise other places.

A little comedy (Don't overdo it) goes a long way if your the kind of band that talks before the set.



Also their should be a thread titled - the does and don't of being in a band.


----------



## ZEBOV

Treeunit212 said:


> Your laugh. So evil.



Your pic. So fitting.


----------



## pringles

ZEBOV said:


> ^That's my video. Come at me, bro.
> 
> 
> EDIT: I don't think you'll last very long on ss.org. You're treating the site like Twitter and you made a pointless post in the classifieds.



I don't know what to say. I really don't.


----------



## ZEBOV

pringles said:


> I don't know what to say. I really don't.



Nothing. Rest assured, I'm across the Atlantic from you.... but I really want to go to England someday.


----------



## LMak

If you have broken a vital part of your equipment, do not tell the person how you broke it when asking to borrow someone else's. We played a gig at the O2 Islington when the drummer for the band who was on before us asked to borrow our drummers snare because the night before he managed to hit it so hard he broke through the skin. Needless to say, he never got our snare


----------



## Mysticlamp

this happened to one of the bands we played with a couple day ago, the band and some of their friends were standing around talkin before they played and one of the kids mentioned a racial slur without realizing that the co-owner of the venue was literally standing right behind them

long story short they were not allowed to play that show and the band is not welcome at the venue ever again

so watch what you say at shows


----------



## broj15

Nick said:


> singers with their mic free hand in their pocket. might sound daft but it shows disinterest



maybe they are just touching themselves. Just kidding. That pisses me off too.


----------



## chronocide

ZEBOV said:


> ^That's my video. Come at me, bro.



Why did you do that?


----------



## VILARIKA

I read lots of the posts and got a lot of good info from them. One that I didn't see posted was that:

If your one of the bands that goes on earlier during the lineup, you should stay at the show after your done playing and support the bands that go on after you. For one, you can network and talk to people after the show about how the show went, who they came to see, etc., and people will more easily remember your name, face, etc. It's always good to be around, but only if your good to be around . Besides talking to people after shows, you SHOULD support the bands that go on after you. They will probably appreciate it more than you think, and they might even invite you to play another show they have in the future!


----------



## zappafile

DON'T turn up unprepared. Have spares of everything. Power cables, strings (or a whole guitar), leads, picks, Strap, Power tubes for you valve amp, fuses, 9 volt batteries, IEC cable or Jug cord. I know of several bands who have been given a break to support larger bands but turned up late and ill prepared and it was noted by people who book these bands. Needless to say they do not book the same fuck up band twice. It takes more than musical talent to survive in this industry so be professional and efficient. If you are serious its a job not a hobby.


----------



## ZEBOV

chronocide said:


> Why did you do that?



It was April Fool's Day. And I hadn't had a good chance to test it before, so I figured that it would be a good test. I admitted it to them after the smell cleared. The show didn't end for the night. It was back on 15 minutes later.


----------



## tasteslikecrab

-If you swing your guitar around be aware who the fuck is around you
-Don't step on your bandmate's cables
-Have a quality strap or duct tape the shit out of your current one
-Some vocalists dominate the front part of the stage. If yours does, stay out of his way, he's called a frontman for a reason
-Help the drummer set his equipment up
-DO NOT SHIT TALK OTHER BANDS WHILE YOU ARE AT THE VENUE
-Wear earplugs, it's not being a dick to other bands and it's not uncool, it's caring about your hearing
-Drinks on stage are nice, drinks in your equipment aren't, keep them seperate
-If you're in a small venue get your equipment out to your car or trailer asap after you finish playing. Makes life easier for the other bands and keeps your equipment yours.


----------



## Leuchty

VILARIKA said:


> I read lots of the posts and got a lot of good info from them. One that I didn't see posted was that:
> 
> If your one of the bands that goes on earlier during the lineup, you should stay at the show after your done playing and support the bands that go on after you. For one, you can network and talk to people after the show about how the show went, who they came to see, etc., and people will more easily remember your name, face, etc. It's always good to be around, but only if your good to be around . Besides talking to people after shows, you SHOULD support the bands that go on after you. They will probably appreciate it more than you think, and they might even invite you to play another show they have in the future!


 
This is so true.

Im experiencing this more and more.


----------



## cwhitey2

CYBERSYN said:


> This is so true.
> 
> Im experiencing this more and more.





My old bass player used to sneak out. He always claimed he was tired (he was in bed at 10p.m.).

I don't care if your tired, they watched us, you can grow a set and watch them.


Prime example of how awesome a band is... Sleep Circadia is a band from Syracuse, NY...thats a about hour 15 min ride from gig....gig ends at 3 am i look over and holy shit they are still selling merch! Thats what i like to see in bands, they probably did go to bed til 6 am


----------



## VILARIKA

CYBERSYN said:


> This is so true.
> 
> Im experiencing this more and more.



So you noticed that bands just leave after they are done? Or the other way around.


----------



## Path

Dont: 
And im talking from experience here cuz it happened to us, 
Turn up to a gig that you got asked to play by the main band,
Play your set (after borrowing gear), 
then fuck off before the end of the gig before having even watched the other bands who set u up with the gig and lent you gear...

Its fucking rude.

Edit: i didnt read what the last few posts were, but yeh, it further proves the point.


----------



## Blasphemer

Don't scream so hard that you feel like you're going to throw up afterwards. Just did that. Wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## Leuchty

VILARIKA said:


> So you noticed that bands just leave after they are done? Or the other way around.


 
That they leave right after they're done.

Also, heaps of bands hang "out the back" until its their turn to go on. There may be 5 people in the crowd and 35 out the back in little groups.


----------



## Riffer

Don't ever stop playing if you fuck up! Also, don't just stand there but also, don't just flail yourself around the stage (unless your DEP). Be prepared for the worst. Bring extra cables, straps, picks, batteries, mics, guitar stands. Also invest in a screw driver, some allen keys, a string winder, and duct tape.


----------



## Treeunit212

Put the music before everything else, especially stage presence. It doesn't matter how good you look if you sound like shit.


----------



## Thep

Remember: stage presence and image are THE most important things to keep in mind while you are playing. You can be playing the most beautiful thing in the world, but if the opposite sex doesn't want to fuck you, its not worth it.


----------



## blister7321

this is more for promoters
Show up on early
pay the fucking venue
tell the bands if theres sound equipment there
dont tell the bands the night before that they had to have a set # of people there to see them specifically 
dont switch the venue 3 fucking times so the bands cant even tell people where the hell theyre going

for bands be prepared for anything if you have a pa bring it mics cables strings straps instruments
be early


----------



## JohnIce

I have one I think I've finally taught my bass player to stop doing 

Playing back to back or side by side etc. might look cool, but leaning against your bandmates picking arm is NOT a good idea... I've had several cool unison parts with my bass player destroyed because he leaned against my arm so I couldn't play the damn part


----------



## Treeunit212

ZEBOV said:


> Your pic. So fitting.



If ANYONE can appreciate an evil laugh, it's me.


----------



## Thep

Actually I thought of a legit one. 

When you are doing a warm up/soundcheck on stage, (unless you are Paul Ryan) do not sweep or showboat, even if it is a technical band. It makes you look like you're trying too hard and faggoty...


----------



## brianmantia

Even if you have a decent following and thing your balls dont stink, dont be an asshole and forget the band names of the bands opening before you when you say "lets hear it for so and so". Irritating.


----------



## Osorio

Just be polite to people. Respect them and they will most likely respect you back; but just in case they don't, there is no need to be a prick about it; just let it go and avoid the person in the future if at all possible. If not, you already know who you are dealing with.


Personally speaking, I hate when I hear stuff being sampled. 
If your music is not going to sound the same live as it does on the album, why try to fake it? Do something different with it. You are a musician and your job is to play, so do it.
That violin intro doesn't NEED to be a violin, it can be a smooth bass lead. Or some other crazy stuff. Be inventive. Make it worth my while.


----------



## tacotiklah

When it comes to the stage, the road to it and on it is paved in duct tape. Honestly, it's a musician's best friend.....

Also, it should be obvious, but for the love of god invest in a noise gate/suppressor. Honestly, nothing kills a show and everyone's hearing quite like an amp that hums and squeals like crazy. Also, if your amp is doing this, don't just ignore it or pretend it isn't happening. Turn the damn amp off if necessary, but please, for the love of science, make the goddamn noise stop.


----------



## Moonfridge

venneer said:


> Personally speaking, I hate when I hear stuff being sampled.
> If your music is not going to sound the same live as it does on the album, why try to fake it? Do something different with it. You are a musician and your job is to play, so do it.
> That violin intro doesn't NEED to be a violin, it can be a smooth bass lead. Or some other crazy stuff. Be inventive. Make it worth my while.



I actually disagree with this, I honestly don't see anything wrong with sampling things live and think it can make a performance sound much bigger than it would normally, also I don't think you can always substitue things like that without losing some of the intended effect.


----------



## Osorio

I don't know, my opinion comes with a bit of context, maybe. I used to play bass in a 5 piece band (2 guitars, bass, drums + keys). People honestly wanted to sample a flute melody when the keyboardist wasn't really doing anything special. I honestly think it borders on laziness, depending on how it is done.
It's different when it is a 3 piece power trio sampling a second guitar, or a band with no bass sampling one. Or a power trio sampling an orchestra, but that last one really seems just silly to me. I would rather see a rawer performance, but that is just me, of course.


I always remember Blind Guardian playing live. Not that they don't use sampling at all, but their albums are pretty damn impossible to reproduce, and they don't really try it. They sound different live and their performance grows because of it.

Personal opinion, of course.


----------



## Blasphemer

venneer said:


> Personally speaking, I hate when I hear stuff being sampled.
> If your music is not going to sound the same live as it does on the album, why try to fake it? Do something different with it. You are a musician and your job is to play, so do it.



I sample on stage, but never instruments. Usually voices and stuff just to add kicks to our set. Things like 
"We interrupt your regular broadcast for this important new bulletin"

"Hey, dudes. When you're new in the neighborhood, and nobody knows who you are, and you wanna make friends... here's what you do" (Onto a big sludgy doom section )

"We will not be held responsible for any hearing impairment, or damage, caused to you by excessive exposure to this sound" (thats a good one to open with )


Other times it will be sound effects like ambiance, waves, or other such nonsense.


----------



## Treeunit212

Blasphemer said:


> I sample on stage, but never instruments. Usually voices and stuff just to add kicks to our set. Things like
> "We interrupt your regular broadcast for this important new bulletin"
> 
> "Hey, dudes. When you're new in the neighborhood, and nobody knows who you are, and you wanna make friends... here's what you do" (Onto a big sludgy doom section )
> 
> "We will not be held responsible for any hearing impairment, or damage, caused to you by excessive exposure to this sound" (thats a good one to open with )
> 
> 
> Other times it will be sound effects like ambiance, waves, or other such nonsense.



We've started opening by playing Wu Tang over the PA system.

BRING THE MOTHA FUCKIN RUCKUS


----------



## GHost_QC

Seriously this thread is a great idea ! Some says this may scares some beginners but, personally, I think that sharing our own personal bad experiences will helps (I hope !) to prevent those shits that can happens often (even more if you're playing into local shows..). Anyway, a wise person will learn from his own errors, but a wiser person will learn from his own errors and the other's errors.

So I will try my best to find don't that doesn't figures in this thread:

-Seriously, even if you're a humoristic band.. Never throw a beans can into the public just to be original... Saw this once and someone got a bad headache out of it..

-Don't do stage tricks if you have not properly mastered 'em.. Coz a) you may injured someone or even yourself. b) you'll probably miss some crucial notes doing it (or even tempo). and c) You're a musician, not a ninja for fuck sakes !

-I'm not saying to be suspicious every time about the sound man, some are really incredible ! But, (personal experience here too) sometimes they act like total motherfuckers just because it is a local gig or a bar show. I got one at a local gig that went out to drink some beer outside after a few notes of our opening song and we got a serious and obvious feed problem.. At least, my guitarist is pretty with mix so he fixed it and we never let this guy touch our sound again...

-I know this one has been said so many times but, don't be harsh on other band or the venue. After all, being a musician out there is so hard, why should we drown each other to surface while we could (and should) respect each other, help each other. It is more pleasant to have some peoples to party with after the show instead of getting a black eye for being a dick !

-THE CROWD IS YOUR JUDGE. Don't argue with 'em, don't be a dick with 'em THEY ARE THE ONE LISTENING TO YOUR SHIT !! They will choose if your band sucks or not and their is nothing you can do about it excepts try to do better afterward. Like some said too, don't command them neither.. They know what to do and they will if they feel like it (even for the wall of death things, don't know for you guys but at my local show people always asking for one for each good bands so not even needs to ask 'em ! Maybe it is just the fact that I live in a hellhole into the Quebec province XD)

-Brings your fucking shit it's your fucking job !! I'm flexible enough to lend some of my gear but I never lend nothing to kiddos. Shit happens at every show, be fucking prepared for everything !! NO EXCUSES, NO MERCY !! You don't got your stock, you go to the fucking store and borrow it, and if it's too late, too bad for you asshole I won't ruin my sound and/or set cause you didn't prepared yourself properly!

-I heard that one too and wanted to repeat this one because it is a major one, NOW YOUR FUCKING SET (fortunately, it didn't happen to me but I saw this twice)!! Geez.. If not even mastering your set WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING HERE ?! I can stand a band that plays well without any presences on stage (I get bored to death and drink some beers but at least I appreciate that they masterize their set !) 

-even if your popular and getting paid nicely, DON'T OVERESTIMATE YOURSELF !! As a roller coaster, you'll fall down as fast as you climb up, and when you'll be down you'll need bands to support you and help you getting back on your track. I think friendship (or could we say bandmateship ?) is as important as your actual image.

That's the points I can think about right now but there are far more than these, but I think that this topic must have touched those points at least once 

And again, this topic is gold mine of crucial informations about lives performances and would recommend we take those tricks and write a book with 'em  

\m/--(-_-)--\m/


----------



## FaceGrater

Just from the experiences in my old band:

1. The singer is the main voice of the band. If he/she is awkward on stage they make it awkward for the audience. The singer in my old band took a long time to come into his own. His antics of standing in the same spot. Lack of eye contact with the audience and air guitar with me were swiftly corrected by the rest of us in the band. I think a great example of an energetic front man is Roy Khan. Saw him live with Kamelot a few years ago and was impressed with how he presented himself on stage and how he interacted with the audience.

2. I was guilty of standing still as a guitarist for a long time. We were metal and I looked like some kid playing shoegazing. Move around! Headbang! Unless you are playing shoegaze I guess.

3. Don't ignore the other bands you are playing with. Offer to help them out with their set up and tear down. It's a great way to network with other groups. My band became really good friends with some guys in another band. It was nice helping each other with getting shows and just added to the great vibe of it all. Plus if someone in your band doesn't work out, maybe one of those guys will... That happened with us more than once.


----------



## Geest

Being pushy, sure you may encourage the audience to dance/headbang/mosh and so on. But don't overdo it, asking them once is more than enough.

Carefully judge what kind of people you are playing in front, on some stages you can get a wall of death organized, and at others you won't see anybody move 10 inches except to buy beer.


----------



## Beat Poet

Don't play new songs because they are new. The latest song you've written won't always be the best yet. Nurture the songs and do a demo of them first. There's nothing worse than having to stand through a band who are doing an open rehearsal.


----------



## SchecterBurzum

Chris said:


> Smiling like a madman the whole time.
> 
> For reference, see the bald guy in Dimmu.



Good point, I do that and people always comment on just that! But Galder has the craziest smile, but a good reference!

And for gods sake! CHECK YOUR TUNING BEFORE GOING ONSTAGE!! The worst thing you can do is start the show with an out of tune guitar...


----------



## Scruffy1012

Don't spend more time boasting about your religous beliefs than actually performing.


----------



## Wolf ov Fire

Fucking with your volume pedal when you should be moving around, my friend does this alot
Bring a fucking sheet music stand with lyrics sheets to a concert, even if it IS at a coffee shop! MEMORIZE!
Dance. Yes I have seen people actually dance.
-An extension of this: Pelvic thrust into your instrument. Its funny at practice but NOT when you hit your sac against the cutaway and have that face for the next 5 minutes
Jump off the cabinet and hit your guitar on the floor
Stop in the middle of a riff to get a drink of water. Even if you ARE singing!


----------



## Ricky Roro

Don't: 
Be a total idiot, etc. (use common sense, be courteous, etc.)
Expect everyone to like you.
Get discouraged.

Do:
Be a decent human being.
Know who you are and what you are/are not comfortable with.
Be confident, but not arrogant.
Know your limits.


Essentially, whatever you end up doing, don't be fake. If you don't like running around the stage, don't. If you feel the need to tell people to clap, do it. Just be confident (but not cocky or arrogant) and don't be annoying.

Lots of bands out there do stuff you guys hate when playing live, but they are still successful. Maybe their style isn't for you, but just because some band acts differently doesn't mean that they automatically suck. Heck, didn't Rock & roll start with people who refused to color within the lines? Paint your own picture.


----------



## rotebass

ghstofperdition said:


> When it comes to the stage, the road to it and on it is paved in duct tape. Honestly, it's a musician's best friend..



Could not disagree with this any more. Leave the Duct tape at home, buy some real gaff, it sticks better and doesn't leave a mess.


----------



## Lon

CYBERSYN said:


> That they leave right after they're done.
> 
> Also, heaps of bands hang "out the back" until its their turn to go on. There may be 5 people in the crowd and 35 out the back in little groups.



to be honest performing is serious business, i like to have my 30-45 minutes of me-time before stagetime to have 15minutes of warmup ,5 minutes to strecth my ligaments and get my heart pumping, then 10 minutes to setup the stage, then 5 minutes to freakout and then to hit the stage perpared. I am not joking, i do this before every gig to be able to bring my best.

And afterwards i am usually just wrecked beyond recognition this is why after the excruciating super fast post gig gearhaul i want to chill the fuck out. i maybe watch 1-2 songs of every band coming afterwards but you cant expect more of me.


----------



## Loomer

- Smoke crack and worship Satan.


----------



## maliciousteve

Don't walk on stage when the bands playing before you are on.

One band actually did this. There was a storage room in the corner of the venue and you had to walk up on side of the stage to get to it. Most bands either staid in the room till the band on stage finished or actually watched. But this one band decided they were the dogs bollocks and would walk back and forth through our set, never bothered to watch us and then demanded that we watch them during their set.


----------



## robare99

Quick notes, as a soundguy...

Don't scoop all the mids out of your tone. You end up with this weird low-hi combination that just gets lost in the mix, and ends up being white noise. Same with too many effects. What sounds good at home alone, often doesn't work in a band situation. 

Myself, I love using chorus and a fairly processed sound at home. But with my band, chorus just makes my tone disappear in the mix, so I run without it during a gig. 

Don't stick your foot on the monitor, and I won't stick my foot on your guitar. 

Try to not cup the mic and please PLEASE don't clap the end of the mic, clap your hand holding the mic. Nothing better than the rythmic BOOM BOOM BOOM as it happens. 

Don't try to sandbag the sound guy, muttering "check check" into the mic during sound check and then screaming your guts out during the gig does no one any good. 

Same with the drummer, don't tap the drums during sound check, and then beat the hell out of them during the gig. 

If you beat the hell out of the drums, or scream your guts out during the gig, give me that. We are both on the same team, and I want you to sound as awesome as you do. Give me the levels you play and and let me work with them. 

Have a reasonable sound level for stage, I know you DO need some level, and I do use stage bleed to fill the area right in front of the stage, but let's not be too crazy about it, this ain't Madison Square Gardens, and I can always put more guitar in your monitor. 

Plus

If it IS a particularly small room, as a drummer try to use a bit of control, the whole mix usually has to be built around the snare and cymbals. If you are doing your best to put a hole in your snare, or break a cymbal with every hit, it just starts the volume war, then the guitars have to be louder, then the singer can't hear himself, and all of a sudden instead of a full mix coming out of the PA, all that's coming through is some kick and vocals. 

We aren't there to kill the audience, and rip the skin from their faces, we are there to kick their ass and take some names. 

95% of the time I'm able to work with the bands, everything sounds awesome, the bands are really happy with the mix, it sounds great out front and everyone has an awesome time. 

The other 5% of the time I do what I can, combat damage control audio, and the band is simply put on the "Do not bring back" list.


----------



## Soubi7string

robare99 said:


> We aren't there to kill the audience, and rip the skin from their faces



I beg to differ


----------



## thelarrinator

Don't prioritise your 'image' or 'stage-persona' over playing.
If you're really into the music and like to move about a lot - cool! That's awesome!
But if you're doing it for no apparent reason and it's effecting the playing drastically, just don't do it.


----------



## Herb Dorklift

Popsyche said:


> Control your fucking stage volume!
> 
> You are not playing in Wembley.


 
I played at Wembley last week and it wasn't that loud on stage 

I hate it when bands wait too long inbetween songs. It should be TIGHT!


----------



## Murmel

Herb Dorklift said:


> I played at Wembley last week and it wasn't that loud on stage
> 
> I hate it when bands wait too long inbetween songs. It should be TIGHT!



Are you fucking kidding me? Is this the Wembley that I think it is?


----------



## Herb Dorklift

Wembley Arena... not Stadium unfortunately!


----------



## Murmel

Pretty awesome regardless.

I thought you meant Wembley Stadium. I was overflowing with jelly


----------



## robare99

Soubi7string said:


> I beg to differ



Well I do have 5000W for FOH... It's a pretty good fit for the room. Guitar cabinets are pretty directional, so while your killing the guy standing in front of your amp, the person 10' to the side is definitely not hearing the same thing.


----------



## robotsatemygma

Dunno if anyone said this...

Never play with a drunk drummer... unless it's punk music.


----------



## Blasphemer

Do do this:


----------



## Devyn Eclipse Nav

Something that happened to me at your last show:

Don't leave your Mesa/Boogie Half stack with a Dual Rectifier head and Oversized Mesa cabinet and your rack of stuff onstage after your set, so the promoter of the show and the guitarist for the opening band have to move it to the back while you go hang out with the other bands.

Seriously, that thing was freaking heavy, I agree with the promoter, I should have just taken it


----------



## The Norsemen

All of these are for gigging local bands, some can be applied to all bands.

Get your shit on and off the stage, Immediately.

I can't tell you how much this pisses me off.
Some mediocre screamo band will just get done doing a Taylor Swift cover and then they feel like they were so good, they should stand around and get praise from the girls they brought.
Meanwhile I want to get my shit on stage and commence the jigglin. 

Not only is this rude, but it have several adverse effects.
1. If every band does this you've pushed the scheduled times out the window and the last bands will be there all night.
2. Between bands is when people go outside for fresh air or whatever. If you take half an hour to get the next band ready guess what? Half those people have left and now you've fucked off shit.
3. You're going to look like an amateur and a douche to the other bands and once they all put a bad name out for you, you're gonna have a hard time playing again.


Don't be a prima donna and bitch about slot times.
You get what you get. If you happen to be first and get a half an hour set like everyone else than so be it.
If you think you need to be headlining every local show around then you have your head up your ass.
Besides the fact that headliner is just false title when it comes to all local shows anyways. All its for is so the egotostical band can go around saying they've headlined shows.
Nobody gives a shit if your name is the biggest on the flyer for the high school talent show bruh.
The best spots are in the middle and towards the end anyways when all the people are there. The only one waiting til 1:30am to see you play is your mom and thats because she drove you there.


Don't let your vocalist call out the crowd. It IS and always will be a bad idea.
Nobody wants to be called names at a show. Especially by an asshole with a mic through a PA turned way the fuck up.
Don't get pissed when people don't mosh or get into your tunes and call them pussies for hugging the walls.
(Side note: don't call out where you want circle pits or ask for a wall of death when there's 5 people on the floor who won't do them anyway. You're not ____Insert famous band.)
I have a personal story for this one.
The vocalist in my band came down with a severe case of RBS (Randy Blythe Syndrome) one show because someone stole $50 from his ride.
Needless to say that show was a fiasco as he paraded the stage and called everyone a pussy, taking a minute or more (feels like an hour) to start the next song.
Made us all look like it was our first show and severely hurt our reputation in Albuquerque.
We haven't been asked back to the El Rey Theater since and that pisses me the fuck off.


This one is a personal opinion but don't play a show unless you are ready.
I understand wanting to get out there.
Playing live is the greatest feeling I have ever experienced. But if you're serious about playing don't rush out there, play a few terrible shows, and do irreparable damage to your rep.
This might just be a thing for me playing in a small town though.
Word of mouth is powerful here.


Last one I'm gonna post is mutual respect.
You won't always get it from other bands, but the way you handle yourself and your band will undoubtedly make its way to the ears of the promoters.
If you don't play well with others, they won't let you play.
Don't be a dick! Be a dude!

These are just some things I've picked up around my area.
Theres a lot of unfair bullshit goin down here though. I'm assuming its like that everywhere though.


----------



## CTID

The Norsemen said:


> Don't be a prima donna and bitch about slot times.
> You get what you get. If you happen to be first and get a half an hour set like everyone else than so be it.
> If you think you need to be headlining every local show around then you have your head up your ass.
> Besides the fact that headliner is just false title when it comes to all local shows anyways. All its for is so the egotostical band can go around saying they've headlined shows.
> Nobody gives a shit if your name is the biggest on the flyer for the high school talent show bruh.
> The best spots are in the middle and towards the end anyways when all the people are there. The only one waiting til 1:30am to see you play is your mom and thats because she drove you there.



I agree with your entire post, but this part I agree with the most. My band's other guitarist bitches (hopefully only to us) about not being put later on setlists because we've played more shows than most of the other bands. We just remind him that he should be grateful that we're booked on shows in the first place, it's incredibly frustrating at times.


----------



## Demiurge

I'm not much of a live-show-player, so I'm interested in the answer:

What is the etiquette for covering the artist that you're opening for? I presume that unless it's a deep track and/or said artist comes out to jam on it for, it's an absolute total no-no.

Went to a show last night where the opening artist, a quasi-electronic act, not only covered one of the headlining artist's songs- a new song and part of the headliner's setlist- but also included samples of the covered song in the cover. It was also a horrible rendition.


----------



## Styxmata

If it's your gear to play then it's your gear to load the fuck up: 
I had a guitarist who was the laziest half stack of shit I have ever played with. Every show from setup to pack up he was just standing around, smoking, fucking off, etc... One day at the end of our set his dumb self went outside after taking his shit off stage and as usual the 4 of us just loaded everything up and I guess he set his ESP next to another bands shit and the rest of us of course didn't know because well, it's wasn't our fucking instrument, so it wasn't until almost a week later during our next jam sesh he realized "Holy fuck, where the fuck is my guitar at" and only after convincing him none of us had the thing it was pretty obvious that maybe it's your own god damn responsibility to make sure all of your gig gear is not left behind (bands with roadies may be excluded). With that said a very costly lesson was learned but I didn't feel bad one bit as we we're always bitching and yelling at him to help load and unload everything and to make sure it was all there each time. I guess atleast a band who maybe takes care of their belonging's now has a new/free nice guitar.

Also I hate hate hate during live shows when between songs the singer decides to yabber and talk about the dumbest shit a person can possibly say, it's like a nervous tick of mouth diarrhea. Just shut the fuck up and awkwardly stare at the crowd if that's all you can think of doing.


----------



## Styxmata

Fact


----------



## metaljohn

The Norsemen said:


> This one is a personal opinion but don't play a show unless you are ready.
> I understand wanting to get out there.
> Playing live is the greatest feeling I have ever experienced. But if you're serious about playing don't rush out there, play a few terrible shows, and do irreparable damage to your rep.
> This might just be a thing for me playing in a small town though.
> Word of mouth is powerful here.



Try being in Phoenix. There's one promoter(I won't name names) that consistently puts bands that sound like they showed up for practice on their shows. Luckily, this promoter doesn't put on the type of shows I would normally go to(occasional friends band to see, and even more rarely, touring bands I'd actually like to see.) Unfortunately, they are one of the biggest promoters in AZ, and definitely in Phoenix.


----------



## The Norsemen

metaljohn said:


> Try being in Phoenix. There's one promoter(I won't name names) that consistently puts bands that sound like they showed up for practice on their shows. Luckily, this promoter doesn't put on the type of shows I would normally go to(occasional friends band to see, and even more rarely, touring bands I'd actually like to see.) Unfortunately, they are one of the biggest promoters in AZ, and definitely in Phoenix.



I might have an idea of who you're talking about.
I hear about stuff in AZ here and there from bands that come to Farmington.
Try promoters and shows on the indian reservations!
Done any of those shows yet?

I also hate when a promoter lets the same 2 bands play all the shows.
Eventually everyone gets tired of hearing the same bands play the same songs and the scene gets stagnant as hell 
Not as bad to recover from as a recession but all the same.

Sometimes their just won't be a good amount of tight, talented, local acts to change up the shows but come on.
If little ass towns like mine can do it then larger towns and cities have no excuse to throw the same 2 bands on every show.


----------



## BabUShka

The biggest dont for me is: NEVER BRAKE EQUIPMENT!!
I hate when people smash guitars, amps and other stuff live. I've seen some local hardcore bands gone really wild on stage and almost broke the microphones and other stuff, which wasn't even theirs..


----------



## metaljohn

The Norsemen said:


> I might have an idea of who you're talking about.
> I hear about stuff in AZ here and there from bands that come to Farmington.
> Try promoters and shows on the indian reservations!
> Done any of those shows yet?
> 
> I also hate when a promoter lets the same 2 bands play all the shows.
> Eventually everyone gets tired of hearing the same bands play the same songs and the scene gets stagnant as hell
> Not as bad to recover from as a recession but all the same.
> 
> Sometimes their just won't be a good amount of tight, talented, local acts to change up the shows but come on.
> If little ass towns like mine can do it then larger towns and cities have no excuse to throw the same 2 bands on every show.



I have done shows on the reservations before. Worst thing ever.

You're probably thinking of the same promoter I'm talking about. They put the same bands on almost every show, too. I don't get how they keep getting all the same people coming to their shows. Unfotunately, they're also pretty much the only promoter that will actually pay bands. That sucks, but I'd still rather play for anyone else(with a few exceptions).


----------



## cwhitey2

Styxmata said:


> If it's your gear to play then it's your gear to load the fuck up:
> I had a guitarist who was the laziest half stack of shit I have ever played with. Every show from setup to pack up he was just standing around, smoking, fucking off, etc... One day at the end of our set his dumb self went outside after taking his shit off stage and as usual the 4 of us just loaded everything up and I guess he set his ESP next to another bands shit and the rest of us of course didn't know because well, it's wasn't our fucking instrument, so it wasn't until almost a week later during our next jam sesh he realized "Holy fuck, where the fuck is my guitar at" and only after convincing him none of us had the thing it was pretty obvious that maybe it's your own god damn responsibility to make sure all of your gig gear is not left behind (bands with roadies may be excluded). With that said a very costly lesson was learned but I didn't feel bad one bit as we we're always bitching and yelling at him to help load and unload everything and to make sure it was all there each time. I guess atleast a band who maybe takes care of their belonging's now has a new/free nice guitar.
> 
> Also I hate hate hate during live shows when between songs the singer decides to yabber and talk about the dumbest shit a person can possibly say, it's like a nervous tick of mouth diarrhea. Just shut the fuck up and awkwardly stare at the crowd if that's all you can think of doing.



Holy shit! I think thats my bassist hahaha

He has lost stuff our last 5 shows. Hes always like "why didnt u guys grabzzz it"

I made it very clear after our first gig with him, that I dont give 2 shits about his gear....its not mine and I have my own stuff to worry about. I mean he spent $500 on his rig and just dosnt give a shit. Anf hes never there for loading before or after the gig....

Now that I think about...why is he still our bass player


----------



## TonyFlyingSquirrel

That was a general rule with us.
Every member inventory's his own gear on load in/load out.
If we brought our own P.A., then we each had a portion if it that we were responsible for.


----------



## Jacobine

Last saturday our (now ex) drummer talked us into playing our first show. We only had one song and we (he) weren't even ready to play that. Long story short we plyed like shit. Next time im making everyone sit down and read this so it doesnt happen again.

anyone else have a bad show?

also:

Cinnamon Challenge = good makeup for shitty performance (depending on the venue) if its outside and your friend/guitarist owns it good. 
if its in a little pizza place Bad.
just remember that for future use lulz


----------



## Genome

Jacobine said:


> anyone else have a bad show?



What's that?


----------



## CTID

Jacobine said:


> Last saturday our (now ex) drummer talked us into playing our first show. We only had one song and we (he) weren't even ready to play that. Long story short we plyed like shit. Next time im making everyone sit down and read this so it doesnt happen again.
> 
> anyone else have a bad show?
> 
> also:
> 
> Cinnamon Challenge = good makeup for shitty performance (depending on the venue) if its outside and your friend/guitarist owns it good.
> if its in a little pizza place Bad.
> just remember that for future use lulz




I'm like 99% sure I played that show with you.


----------



## tehgriffmeister

CTID said:


> I'm like 99% sure I played that show with you.



I'm like 100% sure I played that with you.

Also, huge pet peeve, vocalists that spit water at the crowd. I don't want your nastiness.


----------



## Dommak89

robare99 said:


> Quick notes, as a soundguy...


Than you're the one in a hundred. I know bands can be difficult, but fuck, soundguys can be difficult too. I've seen a lot of gigs being ruined by a wannabe soundguy with (as it seemed) 3 weeks experience. And this even happens at big concerts (think of Metallica, almost every band opening for them sound like shit, no matter how big the name). Having said that I can understand Bands cranking up the volume or being pissed off at some point at the soundguy. Although you should, as a band, show some professionalism and not insult him while being on stage.

I don't want to repeat what has been said already, and I agree with a lot of opinions here, but we should all keep in mind that we are all human and make mistakes. I think its a matter of handling the situation right and avoiding the critical "do nots" which makes a gig perfect.


----------



## Jacobine

CTID said:


> I'm like 99% sure I played that show with you.


 

lol yeah im the guitarist for Above All Tradgedies lulz


----------



## Jacobine

tehgriffmeister said:


> I'm like 100% sure I played that with you.
> 
> Also, huge pet peeve, vocalists that spit water at the crowd. I don't want your nastiness.


 
did that happen at our show?


----------



## Ashwin

no no no ... i dont like live performance ... 
becuase its very different from other performance ... 
well , in case , in show time - fire or technical problem then why watch live performance ... 
i mean ........ 
But i agree with management of live performance ... 

THANKS


----------



## DjentDjentlalala

Yesterday i played with my bass music academy band,all pop songs (Coldplay,Skunk Anansie,Alanis Morrisette) a [quick note,i dont listen to that kind of music,but i can do some cool stuff,especially over Skunk Anansie] but anyway,there was a guy,coming side stage and ALWAYS saying to all the bands to sped up,cos they didnt had time....turned out this guy played in the last band,and it was just a "frog fest",full of old people eating fried frogs in a very small town.

The lesson is,dont be annoying to bands playing.it's not goddamn Reading festival,it's a shit festival in a small town.I knew he played in the last band only today,but i'll be messaging this guy soon to tell him how annoying and disrespectful his behaviour was.


----------



## bob123

1) No energy
2) OUT OF TUNE..... This drives me absolutely ape shit.
3) Mumbling
4) 1 guitar and a string breaks.


----------



## Luke Acacia

Drummers- tune your drums up before you get there, your drums sound just as bad as an out of tune guitar and set up your gear before you go on stage for quick transitions.

Bass- Ensure your strings are in good condition. So many bassists just replace strings when they break and this is not good as they start sounding bad a long time before they break.

Guitarists- Dont turn your amps up too loud. If your on stage and turn your amp up so loud that you can hear it perfectly from standing up, the front row of people will be getting destroyed by your amp sound. If your tone only sounds good when turned up to 20, you have a shit guitar sound. Move around on stage and look like you actually enjoy your music, if it looks like you dont then no one else will.
Make sure your pedals/guitars have fresh batteries if they are active and make sure you have fresh strings and tune up before you hit the stage.

Keyboardists- Make sure you have levelled out your patches because it sucks when you can barely hear the piano and then the strings blow your brains out.

Singers- Learn mic technique and bring your own mic, they are cheap and can avoid illness spreading because you all obviously have aids.

General- Be nice to your sound guy as they are your saving grace when on stage and if your a cunt, your fucked. Dont break shit, shit is expensive.

When sound checking, just play something basic that demonstrates what you will be playing, its not a jam session or a shred contest between guitarists. 

Make sure you entertain, this is the entertainment industry. Not the standing around focused on my fret board industry.


----------



## NeglectedField

Don't do everything I did. I hope to make up for it one day.


----------



## xchristopherx

Do not sing with a drink in your other hand. 
Do not hit yourself in the head with the mic. 
Do not have only one guitar and break a string. Or need a huge tuning difference for half of your set.
Do not call people pussy or faggot into a microphone. 
Do not show your frustration if kids aren't buying it.
Do not ask "are we having a good time tonight?" after every song.
Do not cover strength beyond strength. (you aren't going to pull it off)
Do not get on a stage if you are incapable of tuning your instrument. 
Do not cover a song by a band in the same genre as you who is still around. 
Do not use samples that are louder than your actual band. 
And please do not play live shows if you don't love playing shows. 

I love playing live, I think recording sucks. I hate booking, driving, loading in, actively selling merch, arguing over our guarantee when it's contracted, getting things stolen, living out of a suitcase, having a cold for 4 months, etc. But I LOVE that 20 to 30 minutes of playing. Meeting new kids all the time is awesome. Seeing the world for free is the best. It's too bad when bands are obviously not appreciative of the blessing that being able to play live is. 

In terms of DOs: you should always give 110%. If it's a huge venue, warped tour or a knights of Columbus. I think you should play each show like it's going to be your last. Just my .02


----------



## Soubi7string

xchristopherx said:


> Do not cover a song by a band in the same genre as you who is still around.




and why not? it helps get peoples attention.


----------



## misingonestring

Don't beat your soundguy with a baseball bat


----------



## Aevolve

Luke Acacia said:


> Make sure you entertain, this is the entertainment industry. Not the standing around focused on my fret board industry.



While I'd agree with pretty much everything else you said, I'd have to clarify part of this.

A lot of people seem to think that if a guitarist doesn't move around on stage, then it's a boring/awful show.
However- I'd much rather have a stationary band that sounds great than a band that's jumping around and sounds bad. In my personal opinion, sound should always > stage movement. Moving around and focusing on stage presence is fine, _provided_ you can play your material more than competently while doing it.


----------



## tm20

had my first live performance today.....stared at my guitar the whole time :| didn't enjoy the performance at all, I just wanted to get it done and over with, I'm guessing this is a bad sign for the future of me being in the band?


----------



## Flemmigan

tm20 said:


> had my first live performance today.....stared at my guitar the whole time :| didn't enjoy the performance at all, I just wanted to get it done and over with, I'm guessing this is a bad sign for the future of me being in the band?



No man, I'd say it's just nerves. First performance is hard as hell! I sweat through my shirt in the first 2 songs of my first show and I barely sweat usually. The more experience you get the more natural it gets. Just keep on with it!


----------



## iRaiseTheDead

Don't have an ego.


----------



## cwhitey2

robare99 said:


> If it IS a particularly small room, as a drummer try to use a bit of control, the whole mix usually has to be built around the snare and cymbals. If you are doing your best to put a hole in your snare, or break a cymbal with every hit, it just starts the volume war, then the guitars have to be louder, then the singer can't hear himself, and all of a sudden instead of a full mix coming out of the PA, all that's coming through is some kick and vocals.




I screamed at my drummer once because of this. I basically told him you will be the reason we sound like shit...he got the message.


----------



## Idaho

Just skimmed a few posts of people saying about bands that stare at their feet against bands that move around a lot. I think it really depends on the band. I've seen live vids of Periphery and they seem just really focused on playing. Then again August Burns Red seem to have a little bit more action to them. 

Personally I like to see a band enjoying themselves. I can make do with a couple of mistakes if they're throwing themselves into it. If I want note perfect then that's what the album is for. I want the live energy.


----------



## Murmel

tm20 said:


> had my first live performance today.....stared at my guitar the whole time :| didn't enjoy the performance at all, I just wanted to get it done and over with, I'm guessing this is a bad sign for the future of me being in the band?



Don't worry dude, everyone is different with how they react to their first performance.

I tore shit up more than I ever have since in my first performance. I don't think that's very common though


----------



## Bigfan

Murmel said:


> Don't worry dude, everyone is different with how they react to their first performance.
> 
> I tore shit up more than I ever have since in my first performance. I don't think that's very common though



You're a bassist. you don't count.


----------



## tm20

Flemmigan said:


> No man, I'd say it's just nerves. First performance is hard as hell! I sweat through my shirt in the first 2 songs of my first show and I barely sweat usually. The more experience you get the more natural it gets. Just keep on with it!





Murmel said:


> Don't worry dude, everyone is different with how they react to their first performance.
> 
> I tore shit up more than I ever have since in my first performance. I don't think that's very common though



ah ok, thanks dudes  will keep practicing


----------



## Loomer

tm20 said:


> ah ok, thanks dudes  will keep practicing



Although I cannot remember the last time I've ever had stagefright in any capacity (I literally get antsy, agressive and just want to wreck shit), I have a tip for you if you want to be all over the place on stage:

When others calm their nerves with beer or whatnot, you say hello to your best friend:

MISTER COFFEE!!!

Srs, caffeine before shows is the shit.


----------



## Erazoender

^ That just sounds like a recipe for an anxiety attack. Coffee makes me have that nice tingly feeling I get when I think about that girl I like but in a situation in which I need to focus on playing, that may not end so well.

Don't recall the last time having dreamy eyes, staring off into nothingness with a feint smile was accepted in a metal show.


----------



## Loomer

I guess we all react differently then. I just remember some of the best shows I've played were the ones where I'd chugged energy drinks like it wudn't no thang and was running around like a squirrel on crank


----------



## Idaho

Did a show once and our drummer had taken a load of speed. 45 minute set done in about half that...


----------



## Robrecht

My very first live performance was years and years ago, in the height of the black metal craze.

While we were getting ready to go on stage, I found some spare spiky armbands lying around that I guess our drummer had brought along -- he had loads of that stuff. I found a couple that were considerably bigger than the ones I had -- I'm talking 10in nails here -- and had another guy attach them to my upper arms and lace them up.

The first song of our set was a genre piece in the vein of early Immortal and the like: fast drumming and slow, haunting melodies, with constant tremolo picking literally from beginning to end. About half a minute into the song, I felt my picking arm swelling and stiffening up. The armband was laced up too tightly and was cutting off my blood flow to the point where I eventually couldn't move my hand or arm _at all_ anymore. I finished the song feeling like I was learning to move again after an accident and, needless to say, struggled to get the thing off as quickly as I could.

That same drummer kept a freezer full of bottles filled with pig's blood from the local butcher's. He had the habit of taking one of his bottles to every show and soaking himself in the red stuff right before we went on, making sure that everyone in the audience saw him doing it. He used to drink some of it as well. Last show we ever did with him, the weather was pretty hot and maybe the pig's blood had gone a bit off, or the exertion of drumming gave him an indigestion, I don't know, but whatever the case: right after the performance he passed out on the lawn.

An ambulance was called and the paramedics, finding his gaunt, emaciated figure soaked from head to toe in blood, probably vomiting some of it as well, his death-like pallor enhanced by his stage make-up, rushed him off to the hospital... where, of course, they found none of the horrific injuries his appearance had suggested. At least those paramedics had a good story to tell (coincidentally, one of my fellow students visited the same hospital that weekend and, having talked to those same paramedics, later related the story to me from their perspective).

I do love a bit of stage tomfoolery, but I guess the lesson I learned early on is: make sure you're still physically able to handle an instrument.

What else? Oh yeah, we once did a show where the front of the stage was so narrow that there was no way to put up two mike stands. I used to only do the occasional clean vocal line at the time, while the other guitarist, our main singer, did all the screams. Since he couldn't take over my singing parts, but I could argueably do his, it was decided that I would get the mike. Problem was: I didn't know his lyrics very well, at least not well enough to remember them on the spot while playing guitar and tap dancing on my pedal board. Improvising meaningful lyrics in that situation is also a lot harder than you might think. So in the end I just resorted to scream-reading all the beer ads, posters and other things with words on them adorning the walls of the venue. Nobody in the audience _or the band_ ever noticed. I guess that just reinforces the cliché of black metal singing being completely unintelligible.

Lesson number two: everybody in the band should ideally know the songs through and through, not just to take over in case of an emergency -- that should really be an exception -- but also because it intensifies your commitment to the music, and I'm sure that shines through in the actual performance.

I feel compelled to stress again that all of this sillyness took place a _very_ long time ago...


----------



## Larrikin666

Loomer said:


> I guess we all react differently then. I just remember some of the best shows I've played were the ones where I'd chugged energy drinks like it wudn't no thang and was running around like a squirrel on crank



Amen. I drink a Redline 5 minutes before we start playing. Beats the shit out of caffeine.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Don't push fans off stage... Let security (M. Bison) do that...


----------



## Konfyouzd

Idaho said:


> Did a show once and our drummer had taken a load of speed. 45 minute set done in about half that...



How in the fuck...?

The rest of you are incredible if you kept up with that. I'm imagining it ended differently, though...?


----------



## Idaho

Konfyouzd said:


> How in the fuck...?
> 
> The rest of you are incredible if you kept up with that. I'm imagining it ended differently, though...?



It was the late 90's and the stuff we were playing was very grunge so it wasn't exactly hard to play at a faster time.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Oh thank god... I just automatically assumed you were in a grindcore band or something and shat a brick.


----------



## Idaho

no that would have been a nightmare! as it was, grunge sped up just sounds like punk. Or it did before modern grunge happened!


----------



## Murmel

Loomer said:


> When others calm their nerves with beer or whatnot, you say hello to your best friend:
> 
> MISTER COFFEE!!!
> 
> Srs, caffeine before shows is the shit.



If you like never drink coffe, make sure you get your body used to it a while before hand though, like a week or two. 

The first time I had coffee I was shitting so bad 15 mins after, wasn't possible to hold it in. You do not want that happening on stage


----------



## EmoLove

I hate it when people are just idiots and dont think. For instance, the biggest no in my book: Doing something unrelated to EVERYTHING. For instance, Ted Nugent riding onto stage on the back of a buffalo. Yeah.... T_T


----------



## wlfers

You signed up here to post that? 

I'd ride onto stage on the back of a buffalo. It would mean two things: That I had enough money to rent or own a buffalo and that I'm playing shows large enough for a buffalo to get onstage.


----------



## Blasphemer

^Also, he does have a few songs that deal with buffalos...


----------



## D1nkum

Lozek said:


> One of my pet hates on smaller shows is guitarists/singers that insist on getting down on the floor with the crowd. It always comes off as a bit desperate, if your music/stageshow isn't connecting with them then you need to re-think things.



I actually quite like bands who do that.. but I do get around to some punk/hardcore shows a little bit too much..

My pet hate.... Feedback.

It's not hard to realise that you're pointing your mic at you're freaking foldback.

It's also not hard to buy a noise suppressor!


----------



## Codeman

Dommak89 said:


> Than you're the one in a hundred. I know bands can be difficult, but fuck, soundguys can be difficult too. I've seen a lot of gigs being ruined by a wannabe soundguy with (as it seemed) 3 weeks experience. And this even happens at big concerts (think of Metallica, almost every band opening for them sound like shit, no matter how big the name). Having said that I can understand Bands cranking up the volume or being pissed off at some point at the soundguy. Although you should, as a band, show some professionalism and not insult him while being on stage.
> 
> I don't want to repeat what has been said already, and I agree with a lot of opinions here, but we should all keep in mind that we are all human and make mistakes. I think its a matter of handling the situation right and avoiding the critical "do nots" which makes a gig perfect.



a sounddouche really screwed up my last show

The amps were rented and shared between bands, I finish plugging in my stuff bass->wireless->tuner->preamp->soundguy's DI->rented ampeg stack.

As I turn that shit on I get my usual amazing sound  and the soundguy runs up to me after a few minutes saying the sounds no good because of the "noise".
As I get off the stage and hear it from the PA it does have some hiss that is no present on the amp I was using.
The guy acted like a douche and forced me to unplug my gear and go straight bass->di->amp which ended up producing the most dull and fart-tastic sound I ever had, and that the soundguy commented as "finally a good clean sound"

Obviously the problem was with his uberpro pieceofshit. DI, my gear never produced any noise or hiss either at home recording, studio or live.

Later we get rushed on stage to start the show, the sounddouche was pleasant enough to shutdown my amp before we entered the stage, (ended up playing the 1st song only through the PA).and my bass was sligthly out of tune the whole gig and I could barely hear what I was playing apart from the farting.

Looked like the longest gig I ever did, I didn't enjoy a second of it and just wanted to get out of there.
I was so stiff the whole time, at a certain point both my arms started to stiff and cramp, I made all sorts of fails playing in songs I played for years

Some friends in the audience heard the soundguy badmouth my band the whole time, even before we atarted doing the soundcheck 

so yeah I hate soundguys 
but I'm also to blame, I'll never let a soundguy touch my shit again, I'm the one up on stage playing in front of a crowd, not him...


----------



## robare99

Hiss or a buzz? Sounds almost like a ground loop from the DI, the ground lift should have reduced it. An Ampeg is usually a good sounding rig, without a preamp. Do you use the preamp for a distortion sound? Fresh batteries in the wireless? 

In a pinch a Snark tuner is good to have on hand. $15 bucks and it clamps on to your headstock

The only other option is to gig with your own full PA. Otherwise, you have to be ready for all situations, good or bad and making the best of the situation. 



Still sucks though.


----------



## Codeman

robare99 said:


> Hiss or a buzz? Sounds almost like a ground loop from the DI, the ground lift should have reduced it. An Ampeg is usually a good sounding rig, without a preamp. Do you use the preamp for a distortion sound? Fresh batteries in the wireless?
> 
> In a pinch a Snark tuner is good to have on hand. $15 bucks and it clamps on to your headstock
> 
> The only other option is to gig with your own full PA. Otherwise, you have to be ready for all situations, good or bad and making the best of the situation.
> 
> 
> 
> Still sucks though.



A hiss. It was his DI/soundboard/wtvr introducing the buzz somehow.
No distortion, fresh batteries. No hiss through the Ampeg.
Yeah the Ampeg sound is OK but it's not my sound.

I should have made the best of it and bring the soundguy on stage at the end of the show and beat him senseless in front of the audience xD


----------



## robare99

Codeman said:


> A hiss. It was his DI/soundboard/wtvr introducing the buzz somehow.
> No distortion, fresh batteries. No hiss through the Ampeg.
> Yeah the Ampeg sound is OK but it's not my sound.
> 
> I should have made the best of it and bring the soundguy on stage at the end of the show and beat him senseless in front of the audience xD



If worse comes to worse he should have just mic'd the amp. Ahhh I get it, you have your preamp set to your sound then that feeds whatever rig you are presented with. What about rack mounting it with a light power amp, then all you would be using is whatever cabinet is there. A lot of bass rigs have a built in XLR out to feed a PA. 

Might cost a few bucks but then you are pretty much set up with a rig you know will sound pretty good each time. Or even just your own DI, that you know works....

Hehehe


----------



## bazguitarman

Jeez, the list of "don't ever do this" is soooo long. How could we ever cover it all?

*Do not ever....*

* Decide to start playing live unless you *and* your entire band is ready. Remember, you are a team. Everyone needs to be ready to present a professional performance as a cohesive unit. Be ready to support and help fellow bandmembers. Make sure everyone is on the same page as far as goals, image and sound are concerned.

* Drink or drug to excess before a show. It's not cool and makes you sound and look like shit. Seriously, no one wants to pay to see a band that is so wasted they can't even remember or play their own material. Save it for after the show. 

* Show up at a gig with faulty or boarderline equipment. Remember, if it can go wrong it will. Test all your equipment before gigging. You want to be 100% sure it will perform as well as you do. If your guitar has faulty wiring get it fixed. Don't hope it will make it through one more show if it's already giving you problems.

* Assume that another band will loan you equipment to cover your defective crap that you didn't bother to check on before the show. Seriously, I'm not going to loan my $2k guitar or amp to some 16 year old kid I've never met because he can't take care of his own equipment. Part of being a pro is having your own *working* equipment.

* Gig without bringing spare/backup everything. If you are a guitarist this means strings for your guitars, amplifier tubes, batteries/power supplies for wireless and pedals, instrument/speaker/power cables, picks, straps, etc.

* Be a douche to anyone involved or related to the gig. This includes your fellow bandmates, other bands, the fans, house crew, soundman, support staff, security, etc. You rely on all of these people to be a success. Why shit on them?

* Try to make your presentation overly complicated. I know we live in an age of digital multi-media but try to keep things as simple as possible. The more complex and layered your stuff is, the more chances you have of something going wrong. Don't dumb it down too much, but be realistic about what you can pull off in a small club with crap sound and dirty power.

* Have volume wars. This pisses everyone off and makes you sound like mush/shit to the crowd. Not a great way to get return gigs.

* Blame the audience for your shitty gig. Try writing better material or working on your performance rather than bitching at the audience.


On the flip side, you should *Always....*

* Be ready to throw down with your best performance. Always bring it no matter what size the crowd or how shitty the venue is. Be rested, fed and sober.

* Gig with the best equipment you can afford. Not everyone can afford the good shit. But don't skimp. The better you sound, the more confidence you will have as a performer. Also better equipment tends to be more reliable. That $150.00 pawn shop guitar with the broken volume knob probably isn't going to cut it. On the other hand, your $500.00 LTD/Schecter/Ibby/Jackson isn't going to impress the cork sniffers but it will kick ass for an entire gig.

* Know your equipment and be prepared. Be ready to adjust or modify your signal path as needed. If your pedal board stops working half way through a song be prepared to bypass it instantly. If your guitar lays down have a back up. If your amp lays down have a back up or maybe a DI solution prepared. Remember it doesn't need to sound fantastic, just get you through the gig.

* Be aware of everyone on the stage. What good are your killer stage moves if you don't know where the singer is and you knock him out throwing your guitar around? Also, know the lay out of and where the edge of the stage is. Taking a face plant off the stage while holding a guitar in your hands is no damn fun. Shit like that happens in the heat of the moment and will end a gig instantly.


----------



## Fat-Elf

Do not ever underestimate the power of stretching.. Yesterday I was playing guitar the whole day and literally jumping around with it and my legs are killing me now. So at least I learned my lesson and if I will ever perform live again I will surely stretch my legs before and after the show.


----------



## kochmirizliv

Also NEVER sit on a chair while you play in public...i mean seriously?


----------



## TheKindred

^^

tell akerfeldt ....


----------



## Murmel

kochmirizliv said:


> Also NEVER sit on a chair while you play in public...i mean seriously?



If it's a singer-songwriter kind of setting, then I actually prefer them sitting on chairs.


----------



## petereanima

As it just happened again (at a rehearsal only luckily):

Turn off your mobile or leave it backstage/ in the car/wherever off-stage.

Friend of mine learned the hard way, live: Iphone in the backpocket of your jeans can make your wireless (Line6-relay in that case) dropout. 

But many of those also bleed into cablesignals, nothing more annyoing than the good old "ccchhhhhhhhhhhhrrrr - tz tz tz tz tz tz - chhhhrrrrrrr" beeing amplified by boutique amps. 

Seriously, turn off that fucking mobile.


----------



## bigredmetfan

Nothing is more boring and lame then a singer with long hair standing at a mic stand twirling his/her air around Everytime there is a break in the singing....seriously? Are you powering the clubs power with that windmill?


----------



## ShadowAMD

Don't let the drummer get smashed and fall through a window..


----------



## iRaiseTheDead

Don't think its funny to be louder than the rest of your band. ALL of your flaws are shown.


----------



## Flemmigan

TheKindred said:


> ^^
> 
> tell akerfeldt ....



Don't forget the Fripp! But then again, I don't know if he was designed to be able to stand... him being a cyborg and all.


----------



## Luke Acacia

petereanima said:


> As it just happened again (at a rehearsal only luckily):
> 
> Turn off your mobile or leave it backstage/ in the car/wherever off-stage.
> 
> Friend of mine learned the hard way, live: Iphone in the backpocket of your jeans can make your wireless (Line6-relay in that case) dropout.
> 
> But many of those also bleed into cablesignals, nothing more annyoing than the good old "ccchhhhhhhhhhhhrrrr - tz tz tz tz tz tz - chhhhrrrrrrr" beeing amplified by boutique amps.
> 
> Seriously, turn off that fucking mobile.


 
I think this goes for the jam room also.

Nothing worse than being at jam and having that mobile frequency noise thing happen and everyone is fiddling in their pockets to see whos phone it is.


----------



## Loomer

ShadowAMD said:


> Don't let the drummer get smashed and fall through a window..



Why? That sounds fun as shit!


----------



## Pedantic

bigredmetfan said:


> Nothing is more boring and lame then a singer with long hair standing at a mic stand twirling his/her air around Everytime there is a break in the singing....seriously? Are you powering the clubs power with that windmill?



Get George Fisher on the line! You solved the world's energy problems forever.


----------



## bigredmetfan

Pedantic said:


> Get George Fisher on the line! You solved the world's energy problems forever.



If only that was the case then it would be worth while


----------



## subject aftermath

1. Listen to the sound guy, hes not the enemy
2. Tune your guitar. Seems simple but so many people forget the basics...
and finally keep a back up guitar


----------



## Larrikin666

subject aftermath said:


> 1. Listen to the sound guy, hes not the enemy




That's the exact opposite of how I approach sound guys. LOL. Most of the ones I come across are borderline retarded. My goal is to make them less of a moron and prevent them from ruining our shows.


----------



## cwhitey2

Larrikin666 said:


> That's the exact opposite of how I approach sound guys. LOL. Most of the ones I come across are borderline retarded. My goal is to make them less of a moron and prevent them from ruining our shows.



My area has one good sound guy. Hes amazing.

We had someone else run sound one night...the guy practically blew the speakers apart...apparently hes deaf...


----------



## blister7321

dont book other bands to play your first show ever and not give them info on times untill the day before(only because i called the "venue") and also 
*DO NOT LET YOUR DRUNK UNCLE GET IN THE FACES OF THE BANDS WHILE THEYRE PLAYING* thats grounds for destruction around here


----------



## sonnybb

Use reasonable equipment for the venue. We played this Battle of the Bands thing a while back and this one bad, or rather father-son duo, had flight cases upon flight cases upon flight cases upon flight cases of full guitar and bass stacks. Pedal boards that would make the edge quiver. 5 guitars and a midi controlled drum machine with so much bass the soundguy had to all but turn it off. They brought custom mic stands covered in chains. Every thing was DI'd and mic. 
The gear nerd in me was absolutely amazed at all of the wonderful gear that they had, but they took 45 minutes to set up. They only got to play 2 songs, even though the setlist they printed had 7-8 songs on it, so it backfired tremendously. All the guy did was talk slowly into the mic, hit his bass, and solo with way too much gain and absolutely no presence in his tone. They had all this custom, super high end pro gear that took almost an hour to setup, for a battle of the bands in a small venue. They did not win....we did.
The band right before us had a bass player who was hyper out of tune. We cringed the whole night. I can't understand having a musician in a band who can't tell when they are out of tune. He had two basses and they were both out of tune. He just switched them and played. Didn't check the tuning, the signal, nothing.


----------



## Cynic

Something that helps me before getting on stage is stretching. It makes me feel much more confident in moving around because I don't feel as tense.


----------



## Blasphemer

If you're an energetic band, and playing and a very small space with a big crowd, say something about not approaching the band. This happened to me the other night, and at the beginning of this song, which we open with at most hows, when the guitars all come in after the sampled into, we explode, essentially. A girl decided that during the intro, it would be an awesome idea to walk behind me without letting me know and just stand there. I hit her in the face with my headstock. I felt real bad and apologized like mad after the show, but what did she expect?


----------



## robare99

Larrikin666 said:


> That's the exact opposite of how I approach sound guys. LOL. Most of the ones I come across are borderline retarded. My goal is to make them less of a moron and prevent them from ruining our shows.



And how do you do that?


----------



## Larrikin666

I always have a conversation when we get there about what we need vs what he's capable of doing. Do they have passive/active DI boxes? How many drum mics? Are we doing an in-depth sound check early before the show or just a quick one between bands? 

It also helps if they really know their system. If they know for sure that their equipment maybe has trouble handling the crazy low end from bands that downtune, then you can have the conversation in advance to maybe have them cut some low end frequencies right off the bat instead of pushing a fart sound for the 20 minutes of your set.


----------



## robare99

Larrikin666 said:


> I always have a conversation when we get there about what we need vs what he's capable of doing. Do they have passive/active DI boxes? How many drum mics? Are we doing an in-depth sound check early before the show or just a quick one between bands?
> 
> It also helps if they really know their system. If they know for sure that their equipment maybe has trouble handling the crazy low end from bands that downtune, then you can have the conversation in advance to maybe have them cut some low end frequencies right off the bat instead of pushing a fart sound for the 20 minutes of your set.



From the earlier post you sounded pretty stand off-ish, but this post clears it up, and I stand corrected as well. Good on you for taking the time to share a few words with the sound guy. Like you said, find out what he has and what he can do. 

Working together and knowing what you have to work with, or what you are working against is often the key to having a good gig.

Good stuff!


----------



## Larrikin666

robare99 said:


> From the earlier post you sounded pretty stand off-ish, but this post clears it up, and I stand corrected as well. Good on you for taking the time to share a few words with the sound guy. Like you said, find out what he has and what he can do.
> 
> Working together and knowing what you have to work with, or what you are working against is often the key to having a good gig.
> 
> Good stuff!




LOL. Yeah. I probably worded the initial post harshly. I've just had WAY too many gigs ruined by sound guys who didn't care.


----------



## cwhitey2

Blasphemer said:


> If you're an energetic band, and playing and a very small space with a big crowd, say something about not approaching the band. This happened to me the other night, and at the beginning of this song, which we open with at most hows, when the guitars all come in after the sampled into, we explode, essentially. A girl decided that during the intro, it would be an awesome idea to walk behind me without letting me know and just stand there. I hit her in the face with my headstock. I felt real bad and apologized like mad after the show, but what did she expect?



Yeah if youre not in the band get off the stage.

I have been hit the face because my other guitarist didnt know where I was....but on the same note I practically shoved my headstock up his ass once....because I didnt know where he was....im 6'8....u cant miss me.


----------



## JohnIce

Larrikin666 said:


> I always have a conversation when we get there about what we need vs what he's capable of doing. Do they have passive/active DI boxes? How many drum mics? Are we doing an in-depth sound check early before the show or just a quick one between bands?
> 
> It also helps if they really know their system. If they know for sure that their equipment maybe has trouble handling the crazy low end from bands that downtune, then you can have the conversation in advance to maybe have them cut some low end frequencies right off the bat instead of pushing a fart sound for the 20 minutes of your set.



That's a good idea, but it's a much better idea to clear this up a week or two in advance. Ask the venue who will be doing sound, then call him/her and go through these details. Asking the sound tech what they brought when you're already at the venue is probably too late. And if you know there will be a short changeover between bands, try to bring a helper along for rigging, or make a deal with the other bands to help out each other between sets.

A way to avoid lack of gear is to bring your own drum mics (there's rarely a spare D112 or Beta52 if you're using double kick drums for example, and hardly ever 5 tom mics etc...), line boxes, and even vocal mics (getting herpes from a 20 year old pub mic might sound like rock n' roll to you, but I'll pass). With my band we've started bringing all the mics, DI's and cables (including power supply) that we could need, so we never have to compromise if the sound tech is a badly prepared tool, which does happen.

- edit - Reading this back it might seem like I'm having a negative attitude towards you, which wasn't my intention  I'm just giving advice in general


----------



## Larrikin666

JohnIce said:


> - edit - Reading this back it might seem like I'm having a negative attitude towards you, which wasn't my intention  I'm just giving advice in general



Nope. I didn't get that vibe at all. Lots of good suggestions there.


----------



## Char2000

Jumping into a crowd unwilling to catch you


----------



## Kiwimetal101

^ realizing you've jumped into the "chick zone" mid air and watching the bitches part like the red sea.......


----------



## Rustee

Char2000 said:


> Jumping into a crowd unwilling to catch you



Lol this guy I know did that at one of my shows, was up there with the most retarded things I have ever seen.


----------



## robare99

JohnIce said:


> That's a good idea, but it's a much better idea to clear this up a week or two in advance. Ask the venue who will be doing sound, then call him/her and go through these details. Asking the sound tech what they brought when you're already at the venue is probably too late. And if you know there will be a short changeover between bands, try to bring a helper along for rigging, or make a deal with the other bands to help out each other between sets.
> 
> A way to avoid lack of gear is to bring your own drum mics (there's rarely a spare D112 or Beta52 if you're using double kick drums for example, and hardly ever 5 tom mics etc...), line boxes, and even vocal mics (getting herpes from a 20 year old pub mic might sound like rock n' roll to you, but I'll pass). With my band we've started bringing all the mics, DI's and cables (including power supply) that we could need, so we never have to compromise if the sound tech is a badly prepared tool, which does happen.
> 
> - edit - Reading this back it might seem like I'm having a negative attitude towards you, which wasn't my intention  I'm just giving advice in general



I can't speak for everyone but we aren't all badly prepared tools. 









I do 2 - 4 gigs a month, and replace the windscreens on the vocal mics every month with clean ones. Make sure the mics you bring are in decent shape. Nothing worse than some kid wanting to patch in some beat to shit crappt mic that's duct taped together. One pop or click and it's pulled. If you only sing (as in not sing and play guitar or bass) you get a wireless, Line6 XD-V75, a half decent wireless. Just look after it and don't wreck it on me. 

You get 5000W for FOH & 1200W for monitors at gigs I provide for. Individual monitor mixes, so it's all good. 

In fact, my new light rig had its maiden voyage at NYE. 



Still a good idea to be prepared, for when you run into one of the "other" guys.


----------



## rnodern

cwhitey2 said:


> My area has one good sound guy. Hes amazing.
> 
> We had someone else run sound one night...the guy practically blew the speakers apart...apparently hes deaf...



Had a chat to a soundguy before our show, he was setting up the opening band. I think it's best to get younger ones. This guy was in his 40's and clearly doing it for 20+ years. He made a remark "Great mix, yeah?"... all i could hear is top end.. his hearing must be rooted!


----------



## Mega-Mads

DONT FART SO LOUD THAT THE MICS PICK IT UP, JACOB!!!


----------



## UV7BK4LIFE

A lot of dont's for live performance that I can think of involve communication with the audience. Especially singers or singers that play a guitar or bass:

- Don't start a conversation with someone in the audience. The rest of the audience won't hear it, or only half of it and it is not entertaining the whole audience.
- Don't tell the audience what each song is about. They don't give a fuck and the diehard fans already know.
- Don't announce you're going to tune your guitar.
- Don't announce each song unless it adds to the show in some way.
- Don't ask your 5 headcount audience for a wall of death 
- Don't ask your 2 headcount audience for a circle pit 
- Don't ask everyone at the bar having a beer to start jumping.
- Don't have a music stand with lyrics or music in front of you. Ever. (yes, I've seen that once or twice.) You're not in a freakin' orchestra. 

For guitarists:
- Don't look at the neck of your guitar all the time. That shuts you off from everything happening around you.
- If you don't sing, make sure there's no mic or mic stand in front of you.


----------



## Mega-Mads

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> A lot of dont's for live performance that I can
> - Don't ask everyone at the bar having a beer to start jumping.



Or ask all the chicks to flash their tits, while playing in a squatter house.


----------



## Eclipse

Don't ever and I repeat, EVER... take a dump on stage. 
That stinks.


----------



## Rizza

During a show I was at I saw a member of a GREAT fucking band so high on... god knows what... that he couldn't figure out what was going on with his gear, As if something was broken. The show ended, they did another show a couple weeks down the road, fans were hoping for redemption... It happened again, they broke up shortly afterwards. Don't get all fucked up before a show. 

Although I have heard members of a very popular band whose name starts with a "D" and ends with a "tones" love to smoke on the sweet cheeba all day before their shows. Of course that's just hearsay.


----------



## flow

Don't do the 2 step you dumb bitch. You look like an autistic gorilla running the wrong way on those conveyer things at the airport.


----------



## guitarguyMT

Was at a local show last night... the band that was headlining traveled all the way from the other side of the state for the show (Montana's not a small state, btw) and these guys kick some serious ass; very talented group of musicians. However, I felt bad for most of the guys in the band because they were only able to play 4 songs through their whole set because the lead guitarist had some sort of RIDICULOUSLY massive pedal bored with which he spent 5ish minutes tweaking, running back to his rig, tweaking, and running back to the pedal board and further tweaking between each song while the band filled the time with useless banter among themselves. It absolutely killed the flow of what could have been a REALLY good set, and there was hardly a difference in his tone from song to song. They could have gotten another 3 songs in.


----------



## ghost_of_karelia

On the subject of covers, when In Flames played Japan they threw in a Slayer riff halfway through Scorn, you could hear the cheers even on the stage recording they put into the itunes album. Even if it doesn't generate any interest in your band, it's still awesome to wake a couple of half-asleep people up with a well-known riff or two.


----------



## muffinbutton

Playing super high or drunk, and turning treble all the way up and all the bass and mids down.


----------



## Taylor

Don't headbang/windmill so hard in front of your double stack (on a somewhat flimsy stage) that it starts to wobble and look like it will fall on you. It scares the shit out of the audience, at least it scared me when I saw it.


----------



## robare99

guitarguyMT said:


> Was at a local show last night... the band that was headlining traveled all the way from the other side of the state for the show (Montana's not a small state, btw) and these guys kick some serious ass; very talented group of musicians. However, I felt bad for most of the guys in the band because they were only able to play 4 songs through their whole set because the lead guitarist had some sort of RIDICULOUSLY massive pedal bored with which he spent 5ish minutes tweaking, running back to his rig, tweaking, and running back to the pedal board and further tweaking between each song while the band filled the time with useless banter among themselves. It absolutely killed the flow of what could have been a REALLY good set, and there was hardly a difference in his tone from song to song. They could have gotten another 3 songs in.



True enough. Any nuances are pretty much lost in the mix. When I play I have 2 sounds, clean and dirty. There's a delay I might use once a night, but usually not. 


Clean

Dirty

GO!


----------



## Char2000

poisonelvis said:


> and never rub yer' crotch,and then point at me..eeeks



Man crotch

*swoon*

Not!


----------



## InfinityCollision

tristanroyster said:


> Don't ever and I repeat, EVER... take a dump on stage.
> That stinks.



I feel like there's a really good story behind this one


----------



## misingonestring

InfinityCollision said:


> I feel like there's a really good story behind this one



GG Allin anyone?


----------



## LukeJames

As far as pub gigs go, I think it's always a bad idea to bag out the band that's on stage and then expect everyone to love you when you're on. Also, speaking to the audience in a voice tone which shows that you are nervous or not comfortable being on the stage.. And standing there, closing your eyes and singing to yourself.. These are just a few things I have noticed at gigs, and probably been guilty of in the past too..


----------



## Carrion Rocket

If you're the vocalist, know what to do with your hands.


----------



## Idontpersonally

Rizza said:


> During a show I was at I saw a member of a GREAT ....ing band so high on... god knows what... that he couldn't figure out what was going on with his gear, As if something was broken. The show ended, they did another show a couple weeks down the road, fans were hoping for redemption... It happened again, they broke up shortly afterwards. Don't get all ....ed up before a show.
> 
> Although I have heard members of a very popular band whose name starts with a "D" and ends with a "tones" love to smoke on the sweet cheeba all day before their shows. Of course that's just hearsay.


Oh they smoke for sure theres a youtube clip of an in studio session with a close up on a nice jar o nugs hanging out in there with them. Six feet under, electric wizard are also regulars of the top of my head. Didnt willie nelson smoke on stage? Doubt they were only on the ganj, just saying....


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

Can't remember if it's been posted, but don't try to headbang or do any sort of synchronized movement with your band if you can't actually move together  

Sadly, my band had a terrible habit of this for a while, and we collectively looked like four ADHD chimpanzees with instruments trying to do an oompa loompa dance since our other guitarist and vocalist had no sense of time and just moved to what they felt.


----------



## Idontpersonally

yay nay?


----------



## GunpointMetal

ALWAYS EAT THE MICROPHONE!


----------



## fps

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> A lot of dont's for live performance that I can think of involve communication with the audience. Especially singers or singers that play a guitar or bass:
> 
> - Don't start a conversation with someone in the audience. The rest of the audience won't hear it, or only half of it and it is not entertaining the whole audience.
> - Don't tell the audience what each song is about. They don't give a .... and the diehard fans already know.
> - Don't announce you're going to tune your guitar.
> - Don't announce each song unless it adds to the show in some way.
> - Don't ask your 5 headcount audience for a wall of death
> - Don't ask your 2 headcount audience for a circle pit
> - Don't ask everyone at the bar having a beer to start jumping.
> - Don't have a music stand with lyrics or music in front of you. Ever. (yes, I've seen that once or twice.) You're not in a freakin' orchestra.
> 
> For guitarists:
> - Don't look at the neck of your guitar all the time. That shuts you off from everything happening around you.
> - If you don't sing, make sure there's no mic or mic stand in front of you.



Agree with a lot of this, but I like to know what a song is about, especially if it has meaning to the band, it helps to know where they're coming from, what they're like as people, and I like that communication and connection. I also like it when they say what the songs are called, so I can go find the one I like later without having to skip through 8 or 9 others. Even talking to audience members from on-stage can help an evening if it enhances their night, and if the singer manages to convey what's going on from the stage to everyone else.


----------



## wheresthefbomb

I shoegaze so hard all the time, but I offset it with ferocious headbanging at the important parts. 

I definitely don't mind people standing/sitting around, I prefer it in fact, I'd rather they're all listening. I like to see some dancing, too. I wouldn't mosh to our music, but it's best not to question the behavior of drunks. whatever floats your boat!

We always agree to say as little as possible (ideally nothing) when we get on stage, and I always have the hardest time not running my stupid mouth when I get a mic in front of me. I have been guilty of every microphone "don't" except insulting the audience at least once.


----------



## UncurableZero

I can't stress this enough - choose the venues you play according to your style of music.
Watching half the audience leaving, because anything different than regular cookie-cutter pop music hurts their ears, while the other half are scratching their heads, wondering "what is this music and what am I supposed to do", is no fun.


----------



## Chuck

Idontpersonally said:


> yay nay?



Jason Butler?


----------



## Idontpersonally

I guess so. Let's see what google had to say about all that... As far as his live shows, This shit right here personally, im going with nay.


----------



## wheresthefbomb

if an artist started throwing trash at a show, I just might walk out


----------



## Dregg

Something I learned over the years, that applies to every music style but especially metal IMHO, is if you play live and stand still and look on your fretboard the entire show; you better play every single note flawlessly. If you jump around like a maniac and put on a good show, no one is gonna give a shit about a couple of notes missed here and there. People go first and foremost to live shows to be entertained.


----------



## Pezshreds

I once played with a band called mr painful memory where they asked to borrow one of our cabs, one guitar lead, bassists full rig including strap, my drummers cymbals.........and the drum stool

seriously, bring your own gear if you're a local support


----------



## TylerRay

Never apologies to the audience for your mistakes in a performance, take note of weak points and move on.

I know its been said, but don't stand there and yell obscene shit at the crowd. 

Keep your performance solid. When I was younger it was all the rage for the local metal bands to freak out onstage like a bunch of jackasses doing guitar flips and shit. Their performances always sounded like terrible.

If you have released an album, your live performance better be just as good as the album.


----------



## nostealbucket

Anything Dillinger doesn't do.


----------



## Blasphemer

TylerRay said:


> Never apologies to the audience for your mistakes in a performance



I agree, except for equipment malfunctions. I once played a show where my amp was randomly switching to the clean channel, and the reverb wouldn't shut off probably half the time I put it on. I felt like I needed to say something about that, since it was glaringly obvious, and wasn't really my fault.


----------



## xCaptainx

TylerRay said:


> Never apologies to the audience for your mistakes in a performance, take note of weak points and move on.



THIS! There was a local band here, their vocalist would ALWAYS be apologetic for their sound, vocals, tightness, delivery. Used to bring it up ALL the time. Used to frustrate me as if nobody had seem them before and had not formed an opinion, they'd probably go 'well I don't know what to make of them, but even their vocalist thought they were bad so I'm going to agree with him' 

best piece of advice I ever received was to never show any visual hint of stuffing up. 99% of the time the audience will only know from your visual queue, and they'd be more willing to forgive a slight mistake if you're putting 100% into it and creating a great live performance.


----------



## Cynic

Idontpersonally said:


> I guess so. Let's see what google had to say about all that... As far as his live shows, This shit right here personally, im going with nay.




don't listen to him 

do everything that jason butler does. he is probably the best frontman out there, right now. a genuinely great guy as well


----------



## Alphanumeric

- If you aren't Steel Panther don't slap your ass.
- Using other peoples gear and changing settings.
- Modern "Hardcore" bands with the guitarists and bassists walking backwards and fowards and slightly bobbing their head for a whole song.
- Having your guitar soooo low to look cool but then you can't play anything.
- Having it so high you look like a member of the Beatles. Again, this only works for prog bands haha

For anything metal/rock. Guitarists/bassists don't stand with your legs together for absolutely ages, it only works for prog bands, otherwise it looks super goofy and immediately makes me think of some 13 year old's doing a high school talent show. 
Look at JB from ABR for how to stand and move around playing any kind of core music without looking like an idiot doing the synchronized crab poop scoop.

*- Bands that do do a kind of upward headbang on the 3rd beat of the bar, looks like someone is punching you in the chin, especially when they all do it together, seriously bugs me out.*

- Circle headbanging with no hair.
- Forgetting to thread your cable round your strap so when you stand on it it flies out.
- Calling for pits every 40 seconds.
- Saying "I want to see someone die tonight" when you a supporting a non metal band.

Anything these guys do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEX91SNFEyg

- The synchronized up headbanging
- Holding your guitar kind of outwards to the left all throughout a breakdown
- *Running in place*

Contrary to popular opinion I think guitarists putting their foot on the monitor isn't a douchey thing to look cool, its out of necessity for a better position for playing in solos!


----------



## Robrecht

StateOfSerenity said:


> *- Bands that do do a kind of upward headbang on the 3rd beat of the bar, looks like someone is punching you in the chin, especially when they all do it together, seriously bugs me out.*



I couldn't picture that at all, never having seen it before, but the video illustrates it perfectly. Man, that is uncanny. They've clearly thought it up and consciously practiced doing it together and thought it was a great idea.

Also, when I opened that video I first thought it said Capture the Clown and got all giddy and then disappointed. Now I have a clown chase shaped hole in my soul.

Lastly, notice how in the Jason Butler video he bounces that trash can off the bass players head TWICE. Now that's skill.

And to keep this post on topic: transitions between songs should be just as tight as the songs themselves. For instance, I don't know how many times I've seen a death metal singer go (in their grunt voice, since it's super awkward for death metal singers to do stage banter in their normal sissy voice): THE NEXT SONG IS COOOOOAAAALLED... <SOOOONG TITLE>!!!!, after which it takes the band another full clumsy 10 seconds to get started. That just kills the mood dead.


----------



## Robrecht

Another one. Many, many bands in non-English speaking countries write their lyrics in English, and I get that: it broadens the potential audience to listeners all across the globe.

But I've seen local bands performing in local venues for a strictly local, monolingual audience where the singer for some reason does his stage banter in English as well. That to me betrays a deep awkwardness with standing up there and actually communicating with the people in front of you, and it comes across as incredibly fake.


----------



## Alphanumeric

Robrecht said:


> I couldn't picture that at all, never having seen it before, but the video illustrates it perfectly. Man, that is uncanny. They've clearly thought it up and consciously practiced doing it together and thought it was a great idea.
> 
> Capture the Clown.



Dude the up headband this is like a massive thing for Rise Records bands and modern hardcore bands.

I don't _really_ mind syncronised stuff like headbanging or even the crab stance, but the upbang goes hand in hand with bands that run in place during a techno break. Asking Alexandria - The Final Episode. A Prophecy.


----------



## Robrecht

StateOfSerenity said:


> Dude the up headband this is like a massive thing for Rise Records bands and modern hardcore bands.
> 
> I don't _really_ mind syncronised stuff like headbanging or even the crab stance, but the upbang goes hand in hand with bands that run in place during a techno break. Asking Alexandria - The Final Episode. A Prophecy.



I just watched those videos and oh my god you're not making this up. It's like a whole new world has opened for me. I'm not sure I like it. 

Back in my day you basically had your George Fisher windmill and your hold-your-guitar-out-in-front-of-you-like-a-battle-axe-on-the-easy-parts. And Abbath did this kind of crab walk but we all put that down to those novelty boots he wore. I feel old.


----------



## Alphanumeric

Robrecht said:


> I just watched those videos and oh my god you're not making this up. It's like a whole new world has opened for me. I'm not sure I like it.
> 
> Back in my day you basically had your George Fisher windmill and your hold-your-guitar-out-in-front-of-you-like-a-battle-axe-on-the-easy-parts. And Abbath did this kind of crab walk but we all put that down to those novelty boots he wore. I feel old.



Corpsegrinder and is tree trunk neck can windmill for days though. I'm pretty sure he could use his neck as an extra fist 

And yes the new generation is much different. I have to admit my favourite genres of music are modern "progressive" metal/metalcore where standing with yours legs in two countries is part and parcle, and hobbling up and down Born Of Osiris style strangely fits the music. But I am so picky, I like about 5 bands out of a million, its the same with death metal, I only like Death haha.

There's another band, I think Ukrainian or Russian, name slips my mind, but in about 15 seconds the band has a techno breakdown where they dance on the spot and kind of jog in circles, the upbang as the guitars come in, and synchronized crab bouncing when they go 2 step half time, every member of the band has a V neck shirt down to their stomach, female pumps and jeans with massive gaping knee holes. Its like everything I hate in less than a minute.


----------



## tyler_faith_08

All of this happened to my band before last in a single night. 

Anyway, the bassist started playing and running out in the crowd while letting his strings fret when he bumped into random people. He got this incredibly loud DUMMMMMMMBRGRRRRBDBDBDBDBDB (partially muted C major triad) IMMMMMMDBDBDB.

After THAT, the vocalist cut my out solo short by talking about the bar and the crowd and trying to be cool and everything. 

Then the drummer had to leave to talk to his girlfriend that was gonna break up with him so some other guy got on the drums (from the crowd) and played a few songs. 

Around this point, I decided I was done with the band so on the next break, so I went and took an ass load of shots with the rhythm guitarist and we just ....ed the entire rest of the show to hell and back lol.

About 3 songs from the end and well after the shots kicked in, I took my shirt off and just had fun and soloed over half of each song.

I left after that and I've yet to talk to any of them again with the exception of the rhythm guitarist.

In short, if you aren't in good standings with the rest of your band members, don't do stupid things or it may explode in your face. Rather, if you aren't in good standings with your band mates, fix it or GTFO!


----------



## macgruber

StateOfSerenity said:


> -
> Anything these guys do
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEX91SNFEyg
> 
> - The synchronized up headbanging
> - Holding your guitar kind of outwards to the left all throughout a breakdown
> - *Running in place*



crabcore to the max!


----------



## Mouth Of The Harlot

Don't talk religion on stage. We are not a religious band by any means, but I can not tell you how annoying it is to hear a band preach to the audience, or to see a band talk down upon a religion.


----------



## Nmaster

Carrion Rocket said:


> If you're the vocalist, know what to do with your hands.



This. So much this. At my first show, our singer just would kinda bob his head and look at the crowd with his metal face on. I heard a couple people complain that he was a boring frontman. 

A couple shows later, and he's headbanging and throwing his fists in the air at key points of the song and doing some brutal shit. Watch vocalists from experienced bands closely in youtube videos and observe what they do, don't mimic them, but just use it as sort of a guideline.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

GWAR?


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

Agustus Gloop that microphone


----------



## ke7mix

InfinityCollision said:


> I feel like there's a really good story behind this one


 


More like Dillinger Escape Plan


----------



## ke7mix

DO NOT
-No Skimping on gear (your sound is what matters).
-Never lend out your gear unless maybe a drum throne?
-Dont Let your singer sing or talk over any form of solo (unless his own).
-Do not play live unless you are all ready IE: Run timed set rehearsals, have your drummer practice each song with a click(not as important), have your singer rehearse what he says on stage during interludes or whatever.
-Dont let a bandmate say "ill just meet you at the gig" its better if you guys get together with all the gear packed beforehand and then leave for the venue and arrive as a group.
-Dont disrespect the crowd, They are the ultimate judge of your music. If they dont like you (and not everyone will) then you wont make it anywhere.
-Dont damage the venue, It may have looked cool but you arent going to get another show there.
DO
-Enjoy playing (or at least look like it).
-You dont have to be a cookie cutter pop group but Plan movements with bandmates so you look more like a "together" band.
-Have a backup instrument (for the love of Satan have a backup instrument).
-keep time between songs ASAP (As Short As Possible).
-practice set up and setdown times.
-Buy a quality strap WITH STRAP LOCKS (nobody wants to see you drop your guitar and then play with your knee for the next 4 min).
-Financially know what you are getting yourself into for each gig (I have gotten screwed so hard by promoters my jeans looked like Assless Chaps).
-tailor your setlist to the croud you know you wll be playing for (lighter stuff for not as brutal crowds, Super brutal for brutal crowds).
-Give a shoutout to the soundguy/security/booking agents during a break in your show (you will get better gigs and your mix will improve 10 fold). -Worship the ground at the soundguys feet.



This is just my Opinion. I follow these rules constantly (not saying anyone else should) but they have helped me go far.


----------



## codycarter

Saw a band once where the bassist kept spinning his finger around, I guess he was signaling a circle pit, which is fine. Just he kept doing it every 30 seconds..even during the melodic girly singing parts lol

He also tried spinning his bass around himself, which is cool and all, but unless you have strap locks, please don't. Turning your instrument into a flying projectile isn't call, unless you are the chariot


----------



## UnknownRex

I a show a while back with one of my favorite bands. I had the idea that the show would be awesome considering it was the first time in a while that they had played their home town. by the time they went on, the vocalist was so drunk, the drummer had to re-arrange his equip several times before the even started their first song because the vocalist could barely stand upon his own. during the set the vocalist sang almost half of the songs because he could no longer scream, and lastly he busted his nose open by falling on the stage moniter.


----------



## JoePayne

don't spit on the crowd. that's just gross. just don't do it. nobody likes it. it embarrasses the rest of the band too.


----------



## JoePayne

skip to 3:50. i promise it's worth it. then keep watching. it doesn't stop. yes I'm drinking out of a prosthetic leg in the beginning. my drummer plays with his running leg. the other one makes a great mug! 
Pain After Death - Live At Tremont - August 2011 - 4 - YouTube


----------



## Given To Fly

I don't have much experience with spitting on the crowd but I can comment on mistakes with two words: Poker face.

If you play every single note wrong but you look like you are playing every note perfectly, you'll have a slightly confused audience with more supporters than haters. If you play 95% of the notes perfectly and look like you are playing every note perfectly then as far as anybody is concerned, you are playing every note perfectly. 

To make this work you have to have a "poker face" on all the time. Body language, spoken language, restarting the music are all examples of "tells"; the audience now knows you have a terrible "hand of cards." If you perform horribly, but with confidence, you may have a "Royal Flush" and the audience will likely assume you do. 

PS - If the majority of people know the song, such as Sweet Home Alabama, no poker face in the world will work.


----------



## ghost_of_karelia

Don't use variations of the word "fvck" more times in a sentence than words that actually contribute to the sentence's meaning when talking to the audience.


----------



## Pat Olson

Groff said:


> We've actually gotten compliments on how loud we WEREN'T.
> 
> So many people have commented that they can actually hear everything, and that it's not all white noise.
> 
> It's easier to enjoy that way.



 We had a few similar experiences with the crowd complimenting us that our volume was lower than all the other bands there and they were enjoying themselves because of it.


----------



## codycarter

Oh here is one control your drummer

If your drummer is using an acoustic kit, and the venue is rather small, please tell him not to hit so damn hard
You aren't the hulk, cymbols aren't cheap, we can hear your crash from outside, and that's about all we hear


----------



## UnderTheSign

JoePayne said:


> skip to 3:50. i promise it's worth it. then keep watching. it doesn't stop. yes I'm drinking out of a prosthetic leg in the beginning. my drummer plays with his running leg. the other one makes a great mug!
> Pain After Death - Live At Tremont - August 2011 - 4 - YouTube


I'm still stuck trying to get over how out of place your bassist looks compared to the rest of you


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

UnderTheSign said:


> I'm still stuck trying to get over how out of place your bassist looks compared to the rest of you


He looks like Bill Gates


----------



## welsh_7stinger

Here is some don'ts I have come across from when i was teching for a local band for awhile.

-don't decide to not do a set that u have told the owner of the venue that you would do purely because its a smaller audience than the last time you played at that venue. as i say a gig to 1 is the same to a gig to 1000. 

-don't do a gig if you KNOW your drummer can not bring his breakables.

-don't ask to borrow the headliners equipment at last minute. sort this out before the date of the gig. 

-don't get inebriated before going on stage to do a set. 

-don't call the headliner band 's vocalist a c**t into the microphone during their set. If you ain't got anything nice to say of a band don't say anything atall. untill after you leave the venue. 

-don't spend ur time pre set just talking to people and getting drinks. (here is a do) warm up on ur instrument before hand.

-don't leave ur guitar/bass laying on the stage where people WILL be walking over it (better yet don't leave it laying on the floor atall)

-don't leave the gig after your set without 1st saying goodbye to the other bands and apologizing for having to leave before their sets. 

by the way every single one of these was DONE by the band i use to tech for.


----------



## Beowulf Von Thrashmeister

Lozek said:


> While we're on that one, *DON'T* forget to entertain your audience. Unless you're Dream Theater/Steve Vai etc, your audience is not entirely made up of musicians and they really don't care if you're playing in a 'Mixolydian half gypsy nunchuck' scale. Entertain them for the sake of all that is carbon based.


 

'Mixolydian half gypsy nunchuck' scale ?

I would love to see that one in the Guitar Grimoire books. Would it be related to the Shinobi scale ?


----------



## guitarfan85

Don't play somebody else's famous solo. Don't get up there and play Eruption half way through the set like its your own. ....Even if you are a cover/tribute band.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

guitarfan85 said:


> Don't play somebody else's famous solo. Don't get up there and play Eruption half way through the set like its your own. ....Even if you are a cover/tribute band.


Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a cover band?


----------



## guitarfan85

Sorry then disregard the cover band part. If your band is playing original music, don't play eruption as your solo spot. There's a video of dime bag Darrell playing randy rhoads' solo from revelation mother earth....now that may be excusable, i suppose, as hes paying homage to randy because he passed. But if he was still alive and dimebag played that solo, THAT would be inexcuseable.

If any given guitarist from an original band is going to have their own solo spot, dont play someone elses solo!


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

guitarfan85 said:


> Sorry then disregard the cover band part. If your band is playing original music, don't play eruption as your solo spot. There's a video of dime bag Darrell playing randy rhoads' solo from revelation mother earth....now that may be excusable, i suppose, as hes paying homage to randy because he passed. But if he was still alive and dimebag played that solo, THAT would be inexcuseable.
> 
> If any given guitarist from an original band is going to have their own solo spot, dont play someone elses solo!


During a break in the music I say it's ok and during songs as long as it's tastefully done, I've heard many of my hero's play parts of their hero's music whether their dead or not as long as it's tastefully done and sounds good it doesn't matter.


----------



## codycarter

guitarfan85 said:


> Sorry then disregard the cover band part. If your band is playing original music, don't play eruption as your solo spot. There's a video of dime bag Darrell playing randy rhoads' solo from revelation mother earth....now that may be excusable, i suppose, as hes paying homage to randy because he passed. But if he was still alive and dimebag played that solo, THAT would be inexcuseable.
> 
> If any given guitarist from an original band is going to have their own solo spot, dont play someone elses solo!



Whoa, why not? When I used to have a solo spot in a song, I would improv, and by improv I mean play what ever sounded cool. Sometimes I would even throw in a lick or riff from a song I like. Usually they would be really recognizable. We as a band also covered a lot of songs, usually remixing them, chopping them up, and adding our style to them. 

I thought it was cool and people did too


----------



## guitarfan85

codycarter said:


> Whoa, why not? When I used to have a solo spot in a song, I would improv, and by improv I mean play what ever sounded cool. Sometimes I would even throw in a lick or riff from a song I like. Usually they would be really recognizable. We as a band also covered a lot of songs, usually remixing them, chopping them up, and adding our style to them.
> 
> I thought it was cool and people did too



Little hints of a famous riff here and there is cool but note for note in the solos entirety doesn't jive with me. Just my opinion. I'm just not a fan of covers I guess


----------



## walleye

this is a do:
if you're not the last act on, get off the stage as quick as you can after you finish your set and bow/smile whatever you do at the end of a set
- coil cables OFFSTAGE (or somewhere that allows the next guitarist to start setting up his area without waiting for you)
- put the lids on your rack case offstage
- put pedals in your box/bag OFFSTAGE

seriously, i have never seen anyone get off stage faster than me, and im not bragging, i do it exactly as fast as i think it is reasonable, but i have NEVER seen anyone do it quicker. this is a bad thing. you all suck. isn't it common courtesy?


----------



## flexkill

Don't do anything seen in this video....anything.


----------



## JacksonandTravellerBass

A do is:
If you're playing in a local band and are playing alongside others in a local show and time is a crunch, help each band before and after your set. The before band helps you set up and take down after and the after band loves you for helping them out. It's a win win for everyone!


----------



## savanderbok

don't cry


----------



## kaptinfire

A big no no for me is hearing a mistake and the whole band turns and stares a the guilty member.
mistakes can be covered, built upon or just ignored, no need for the audience to be staring at the mistakee aswell making them nervous and ultimately leading to more mistakes 

ps guilty of mistaking AND staring on occasion


----------



## metal_sam14

kaptinfire said:


> A big no no for me is hearing a mistake and the whole band turns and stares a the guilty member.
> mistakes can be covered, built upon or just ignored, no need for the audience to be staring at the mistakee aswell making them nervous and ultimately leading to more mistakes
> 
> ps guilty of mistaking AND staring on occasion



This, although in my band we laugh about it, when my drummer stuffs up I look at him and make him laugh and vice versa, people dig it because we are only human and its great to pass mistakes off as something funny because shit just happens sometimes haha


----------



## larry

walleye said:


> this is a do:
> if you're not the last act on, get off the stage as quick as you can after you finish your set and bow/smile whatever you do at the end of a set
> - coil cables OFFSTAGE (or somewhere that allows the next guitarist to start setting up his area without waiting for you)
> - put the lids on your rack case offstage
> - put pedals in your box/bag OFFSTAGE
> 
> seriously, i have never seen anyone get off stage faster than me, and im not bragging, i do it exactly as fast as i think it is reasonable, but i have NEVER seen anyone do it quicker. this is a bad thing. you all suck. isn't it common courtesy?



well yes, it is courteous. but guess I suck. rack doesn't roll anywhere until after everything's accounted for, secured and closed. though, the only cables I've had to worry about are the two speaker cables (6ft each) and the pedal-snake (34ft). it helps if your gear is designed with this in mind in the first place, though. average setup time was <1:30, while teardown was ~0:45.

the drummer and I rehearsed and timed setting up each other's gear, which helped out tremendously. if I were busy loading, he could set up my rig as each piece made it on stage and vice versa. our stage load in/out times improved dramatically after going rack-mount (drums and guitar). I would have invested heavily in stage-ninja's products, had I known about them back then. 



metal_sam14 said:


> This, although in my band we laugh about it, when my drummer stuffs up I look at him and make him laugh and vice versa, people dig it because we are only human and its great to pass mistakes off as something funny because shit just happens sometimes haha



^ this. plus I think sharing the experience with the audience can sometimes enhance a show.


----------



## marshallH

Other guitarist starting before I was plugged in when we were doing a HARMONIZING arpeggio lick. 

HARMONIZING



Also accidentally falling off stage and breaking your first guitar, not good.


----------



## marshallH

caskettheclown said:


> We all started out with crap guitars don't worry



I learned on a 68 les paul custom 

Then my dad bought me a squier.


----------



## maximumoverdrive

I agree with 'keep your shirt on', though there are some exceptions to the rule:
(friend's uncle's band)


----------



## TylerEstes

Don't use your dick as a drumstick for your electronic drum set.

Don't use a dildo as a drumstick for your electronic drum set.

Don't drag a stand-in 400 miles just to say "ya know what, nevermind" 5 minutes before your set. 

Don't ever say "add us/like our page on Facebook/MySpace/YouTube." Especially 3 times between every song. In fact, don't even say it once. It's pathetic. People know that almost every band has a page and if they like your band then they'll "like" your page. If your band was worth listening to then you'd have more than 3 fans and you wouldn't feel the need to whine until people clicked on your shit  Getting likes on Facebook page won't make you a better guitarist. 

Don't play music for attention.

Don't attention-whore. I'm here to see music, not a whiny bitch have mommy and daddy issues. Shut up and put your equipment away.



Sadly, I saw all this at the same show. Which was in a basement. I was the stand-in that was hauled 400 miles for no reason


----------



## Matx

Don't throw things into the crowd. Nobody wants to get hit with something that's been in your mouth.


----------



## MemphisHawk

Don't tell all the girls to kick guys in the nuts and gouge their eyes out if they touch your boobies while you crowdsurf. Rage Against the Machine did that back on the Battle of Los Angeles tour. Never ever tell people it's okay to start inflicting bodily harm on each other, it will end badly. 

In the same vein, although I enjoy watching the idiots do it in youtube videos, don't encourage "walls of death". Someone always goes to the hospital and it's retarded to force people who would rather not be involved to endure it just because they happen to be where everyone converges. I know that's not very 'metal' to say, but I just leave if people start doing that shit. I got hurt at a Cannibal Corpse show in 1998 and my back is still ....ed up from it.


----------



## ZASVTO

Don't leave after your set. Meet the other bands, hang out and catch their sets. no one likes the openers that play and then immediately head out.


----------



## decrepittom

ZASVTO said:


> Don't leave after your set. Meet the other bands, hang out and catch their sets. no one likes the openers that play and then immediately head out.



Agreed. Networking plays a big role in this line of work. Most younger bands don't understand that. Also, it's good for the scene to hang around and be present


----------



## Mprinsje

ZASVTO said:


> Don't leave after your set. Meet the other bands, hang out and catch their sets. no one likes the openers that play and then immediately head out.



While true, i'm not gonna stay 'till late if i've gotta get up early the day afterwards, as is often the case.


----------



## patata

Don't play a solo you can't NAIL when rehearsing.
We actually can hear the notes you think we don't.

Don't headbang if you can't play clean while doing so.


----------



## Toxic Dover

JoePayne said:


> skip to 3:50. i promise it's worth it. then keep watching. it doesn't stop. yes I'm drinking out of a prosthetic leg in the beginning. my drummer plays with his running leg. the other one makes a great mug!
> Pain After Death - Live At Tremont - August 2011 - 4 - YouTube



Holy crap dude


----------



## patata

^ that's a lot of vomit.


----------



## OmegaSlayer

Don't repeatedly raise your arm if you were a tank top and have a jungle instead of an arm pit.

Won't say who did it, but will post his guitar


----------



## RGM8

Pet hate:

Don't try and be inspirational (a la Northlane) in the middle of a set "we are all like one tree, we have to care for the environment because that is reality not illuminati"- is annoying as hell.


----------



## Ocara-Jacob

Most of the good tips have been shared already, so I'll just tell a couple stories. 

The biggest problem that my band has (in which I play drums) is our bass player. He doesn't move much. The rest of us can get pretty energetic, but he's a little more stationary. 

One of the bands that went on before us (we were headlining) played REALLY well. You could tell that they were really well rehearsed and knew what they were doing. 
However, every single member of the band just stood there, save for the singer, who probably put a little TOO much energy into everything he was doing.
It was just sort of awkward to watch. 

Also, don't throw together your set in two days. (different band, same concert) Imean, come on man. The show had been planned for almost two months, and they threw together their set in two days. You could tell.


----------



## wheresthefbomb

OmegaSlayer said:


> Don't repeatedly raise your arm if you were a tank top and have a jungle instead of an arm pit.



body shaming is laaaaame. should he have shaved for you? maybe put on a little cologne and combed his hair? he was there to play guitar for you, not be part of the meat market. if it upsets you so much, avert your sensitive virgin eyeballs. this ain't america's next top model.


----------



## Tzar27

More to do with preparation, but... Don't go to a gig if your drummer isn't with you and played a show with his other band in another city a few hours prior to your show. He's probably not showing up.

Happened to my friends' band while I was hanging with them. If it had been one of the guitarists missing, I could've easily filled in for 'em, but the only other person in the band that could play drums *at all* was the singer, and he was pitiful and knew it. Not to mention we didn't even have another set to use.

Probably the funniest part about the story is that the lead guitarist was goofing around with a Line 6 POD at one of the guys' houses while we made dinner before the show, and he was like, "there, that was the show everyone!"


----------



## Anchang-Style

- Don't snap at the audience

I can imagine it is frustrating to not even pull a medium sized crowd but snapping at the audience will work in the total opposit direction.
Was in a small tokyo punk club north of shinjuku (no clue where exactly) for one of those 5 bands one evening deals. 2000 Yen entry, 300 Yen per drink (which is a pretty fair price for Tokyo levels, also had chugged a couple highballs before). And there was just me and some other young japanese guy who talked to me for a bit, other bands who will play later the same eve and the girlfriends of the band members. The second band was a band playing some screamo hardcore punk with a visual kei attitude. While the guitar player seemed rather relaxed and shredded his solos like a boss, the singer (looking like manson in a kabuki production) was visible pissed about the low outcome of audience and after 3 songs stormed offstage leaving his band mates utterly embaressed. I went over just said hi to the guitar dude and told him he was really great. Guess it sucks that no one shows up for your band but listening to them, i kinda get it.


----------



## ghostred7

kochmirizliv said:


> Also NEVER sit on a chair while you play in public...i mean seriously?


IDGAF about this one. As a combat veteran with herniated disk in my spine....I hit times where it's either "continue the show sitting" or "too much fvcking pain to keep playing." If the latter, treating it goes into the "getting wasted" category. 99% of the time I just suck it up and keep going through the tears of pain. Dat 1% tho...screw everything but comfort lol


----------



## Skyblue

ghostred7 said:


> IDGAF about this one. As a combat veteran with herniated disk in my spine....I hit times where it's either "continue the show sitting" or "too much fvcking pain to keep playing." If the latter, treating it goes into the "getting wasted" category. 99% of the time I just suck it up and keep going through the tears of pain. Dat 1% tho...screw everything but comfort lol



Robert Fripp approves of this


----------



## ghost_of_karelia

If you start in the wrong key, don't continue to play. Stop, reevaluate, drop in.

Had my induction to my guitar diploma course yesterday, was all cool and stuff and we had to play in front of everyone today, just something you felt like playing. Could team up, could do some cool collabs, was all groovy. Jumped in a group with this French dude who plays guitar (~2 years more experience than me, super cool fella) and a drummer, again a cool laid-back guy. We decided we'd just throw something simple together and let me and the French dude improvise over it, just a simple 4/4 beat, E5, G5, A5, B5, nothing fancy.

So, we play a trial run through, SUPER awesome. Neither of us are particularly practiced in the improv department but we both shred through pretty damn tastily, we play the same kind of music but pretty damn different styles, it was hella fun to watch this guy shred his stuff. Couple of awesome ideas flying around, dynamics advice, liaison with the drummer to make sure we all felt the vibe and when this thing needed to end, we were all pumped as shit to get on stage and do this shit. Only snag was, my guitar (26.5" scale) was in D standard, whereas the other dude was playing in E. So I thought, no biggie, I'll just shift my fretboard visualisations up two frets and it'll all be groovy.

Yeah, usually my guitar is in Eb standard due to my band's tuning, I put it in D the night before because I was jamming some Mastodon. So I brain farted and shifted my mind up one fret, not two, and got ready to play the first note of my solo - E - on the eighth fret of the fifth string, instead of the ninth. You can kind of guess the rest.

Jumped up on stage, pulled the hairband out of my hair, classic metal hair flick, plug guitar in, obligatory nod at drummer, horns up and kick off. Chords ring out like nobody's business, drummer settles into a sweet groove and my partner kicks out some SWEET stuff, unlike anything I'd heard in our "rehearsal", he killed it. Chord progression rolls around again, I swagger out to the front of stage, pickslide, swing into my first note.

BWAAAARRRRMMMMM

Wrong note. The wrongest of wrong. I stood there, dumbfounded, and quickly scrambled through some kind of bollocks diminished scale to find out where I was, my mind went blank and eventually managed to pull off some shitty Brent Hinds impersonation legato playing around the vague tonic center of E way too far up the fretboard to be comfortable. I flushed the colour of beetroot the moment I left the stage, never again.

Moral of the story: If you're playing in a different tuning to normal, make sure you either tune normally or CHECK AND DOUBLE CHECK yourself. Don't end up like me, because now I have to spend the next year of my life trying to prove to the rest of my peers that I'm not a complete dunce with an axe.


----------



## lewis

worst thing a soundguy ever did to one of our gigs.
My bands other guitarist was having terrible technical problems all show. We finally thought we sorted it out and we get half way through our 4th song. His sound goes again totally.

After about 20 seconds with the song still playing minus his guitar now, the sound guy gets up on stage with us randomly during the song. Looks at the other guitarist and mimes and mouths "you have no sound..... just air guitar" and then scurried back to his mixing desk post at the back of the room. He basically wanted the guy to pretend to play the rest of the song because his guitar had gone down and he didnt know what to do to remedy the situation hahahaha


----------



## Orgalmer

Yeah just gonna share some of mine.

Don't get so drunk you fight an ATM machine because you pressed $20 and expected $50. Also don't get so drunk when people make you mad that you try to attack them with your buttcrack.

Don't borrow people's gear and then pour water all over yourself while playing said gear. You think the owner won't notice? GUESS AGAIN.

Don't get into the habit of climbing on top of people's bass/guitar rigs. Just don't. This is probably the worst thing I've ever seen because while in theory this can be awesome, in practice it looks awkward and really lame. When you get stuck on top of an 8x10 cabinet and don't know how to get down, and still have to play a song, you look like a fvcking idiot. Not to mention the fact that you could seriously injure yourself and/or others.


----------



## Tho

Demanding a moshpit, circlepit, wall of death, etc.


----------



## Sumsar

Mostly from wacthing other bands:

The guy on vocals: know when you are in focus; .... back to the drumkit and drink some water doing the guitar solo, don't try to steal focus from the guitarist 15 seconds of fame by doing retarded air guitar! Oh and if your band has 2 minute long instrumental passages you should propably have thought about before hand what you are going to do meanwhile .. I sometimes can't stop laughing at uncomftible singers who don't understand that they are actually NOT in focus.

About the no ....ing playing before the first song; I always do a little CHUG just to make sure that my amp is on, my cable is in etc. This have saved me one time were I had forgotten to turn the amp from standby to on!

About lending gear our: At small gigs where I live (copenhagen) often one band takes care of the backline, i.e. everyone uses the same drumkit and cabs. Still people turn up without amps and try and borrow yours while they are setting up. I always try to make a quick judgement before agreeing: If the guy is a 18 old punk/ heavy kid then no ....ing way. People who play punk seems to be assholes and give shit about your gear = they don't borrow it in the first place 
If the guy has a guitar more expensive than mine and seems to have actually paid for it himself then I fell I can trust him to not .... up my rig. But still; don't change my settings or I will kill you!


----------



## MemphisHawk

jarvncaredoc said:


> If you start in the wrong key, don't continue to play. Stop, reevaluate, drop in.
> 
> Had my induction to my guitar diploma course yesterday, was all cool and stuff and we had to play in front of everyone today, just something you felt like playing. Could team up, could do some cool collabs, was all groovy. Jumped in a group with this French dude who plays guitar (~2 years more experience than me, super cool fella) and a drummer, again a cool laid-back guy. We decided we'd just throw something simple together and let me and the French dude improvise over it, just a simple 4/4 beat, E5, G5, A5, B5, nothing fancy.
> 
> So, we play a trial run through, SUPER awesome. Neither of us are particularly practiced in the improv department but we both shred through pretty damn tastily, we play the same kind of music but pretty damn different styles, it was hella fun to watch this guy shred his stuff. Couple of awesome ideas flying around, dynamics advice, liaison with the drummer to make sure we all felt the vibe and when this thing needed to end, we were all pumped as shit to get on stage and do this shit. Only snag was, my guitar (26.5" scale) was in D standard, whereas the other dude was playing in E. So I thought, no biggie, I'll just shift my fretboard visualisations up two frets and it'll all be groovy.
> 
> Yeah, usually my guitar is in Eb standard due to my band's tuning, I put it in D the night before because I was jamming some Mastodon. So I brain farted and shifted my mind up one fret, not two, and got ready to play the first note of my solo - E - on the eighth fret of the fifth string, instead of the ninth. You can kind of guess the rest.
> 
> Jumped up on stage, pulled the hairband out of my hair, classic metal hair flick, plug guitar in, obligatory nod at drummer, horns up and kick off. Chords ring out like nobody's business, drummer settles into a sweet groove and my partner kicks out some SWEET stuff, unlike anything I'd heard in our "rehearsal", he killed it. Chord progression rolls around again, I swagger out to the front of stage, pickslide, swing into my first note.
> 
> BWAAAARRRRMMMMM
> 
> Wrong note. The wrongest of wrong. I stood there, dumbfounded, and quickly scrambled through some kind of bollocks diminished scale to find out where I was, my mind went blank and eventually managed to pull off some shitty Brent Hinds impersonation legato playing around the vague tonic center of E way too far up the fretboard to be comfortable. I flushed the colour of beetroot the moment I left the stage, never again.
> 
> Moral of the story: If you're playing in a different tuning to normal, make sure you either tune normally or CHECK AND DOUBLE CHECK yourself. Don't end up like me, because now I have to spend the next year of my life trying to prove to the rest of my peers that I'm not a complete dunce with an axe.



This should be in the back of everyone's mind when they play live!



http://www.sevenstring.org//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


----------



## Cellgraft

I used to play in a local black metal band in high school. We were young and impressionable enough to wear corpse paint and spikes. KVLT. I, being so GRIM and FROSTBITTEN, used a growly metal voice to introduce the band / the couple of covers we did. One night, my guitar player asked me to speak to the sound guy through the mic and ask for more drums in the monitors. I totally forgot about my NECRO stage presence and spoke to the sound guy in, what was comparatively, a small, geeky sounding voice. Everyone laughed, including the band. We kind of gave up the black metal image near the end of the band, after realizing how silly it can be.

During that same show, I spat a mouthful of fake blood all over the front row. 

In summary, don't do either of these things. Image < music.


----------



## will_shred

ZASVTO said:


> Don't leave after your set. Meet the other bands, hang out and catch their sets. no one likes the openers that play and then immediately head out.



I think this should go for headliners as well IMO. It's just respectful for bands to stay for each others sets. The last show I played, we headlined and due to shitty scheduling by the time we went on everyone had already gone home accept for a couple of the bands who were kind enough to stick around for our set.


----------



## will_shred

Cellgraft said:


> I used to play in a local black metal band in high school. We were young and impressionable enough to wear corpse paint and spikes. KVLT. I, being so GRIM and FROSTBITTEN, used a growly metal voice to introduce the band / the couple of covers we did. One night, my guitar player asked me to speak to the sound guy through the mic and ask for more drums in the monitors. I totally forgot about my NECRO stage presence and spoke to the sound guy in, what was comparatively, a small, geeky sounding voice. Everyone laughed, including the band. We kind of gave up the black metal image near the end of the band, after realizing how silly it can be.
> 
> During that same show, I spat a mouthful of fake blood all over the front row.
> 
> In summary, don't do either of these things. Image < music.





all I have to say. 

it's all in good fun, black metal is a fun genre to play.


----------



## John Pattison

Think I'd have to say my pet is too much dead time between songs. Buy a guitar that'll stay in tune already!


----------



## ghost_of_karelia

A big no-no is taking sugary drinks anywhere near the venue, let alone the stage. Propped my Monster up away from feet (don't judge me, I had very little sleep the night before) and someone decided that it was dangerous and was better suited to the floor (where my band's coats, guitar cases and spare gear was sitting).

Needless to say, we exit the stage after our set and we've got a sticky, sugary mess all over the guitar cases, spare cables and pedals. Nice.


----------



## BlueGrot

Don't play entire songs on your sound check. Do a part, request stage monitoring from stage right to left, try another part, do a new request for monitoring. If you have some special instruments in parts try them out, then you're done. By playing three/four full songs you're wearing on the patience of the house tech and crew.


----------



## Sumsar

Cellgraft said:


> I used to play in a local black metal band in high school. We were young and impressionable enough to wear corpse paint and spikes. KVLT. I, being so GRIM and FROSTBITTEN, used a growly metal voice to introduce the band / the couple of covers we did. One night, my guitar player asked me to speak to the sound guy through the mic and ask for more drums in the monitors. I totally forgot about my NECRO stage presence and spoke to the sound guy in, what was comparatively, a small, geeky sounding voice. Everyone laughed, including the band. We kind of gave up the black metal image near the end of the band, after realizing how silly it can be.
> 
> During that same show, I spat a mouthful of fake blood all over the front row.
> 
> In summary, don't do either of these things. Image < music.



When playing black metal, write music that is so GRIM and FROSTBITTEN, that you don't need to wear make up to come across as GRIM and FROSTBITTEN!


----------



## DCIF_Jamie

promoters, dont let a wash out headliner on their farewell tour plug their Winnebago into the stage power outlet, causing power to the venue to go out, and blow up 3 different amps!


----------



## Moltar

JoePayne said:


> skip to 3:50. i promise it's worth it. then keep watching. it doesn't stop. yes I'm drinking out of a prosthetic leg in the beginning. my drummer plays with his running leg. the other one makes a great mug!
> Pain After Death - Live At Tremont - August 2011 - 4 - YouTube




You know I saw this post and video months ago and was disgusted, but now seeing it again I just have to say something.

What kind of idiot doesn't realize he is about to puke? Most people have at least 10 seconds if not 30 before they actually puke. There is no excuse for what this idiot did.

What are the chances that he stayed around and cleaned it up? Or cleaned it up before the next band went on? What are the chances that any ruined gear(monitors, microphones) were payed for? I hope the owner of the ruined gear took this ....wit to small claims court. 

To top it off, lets spit the remaining puke into the audience! That will surely win over your potential fans!

I know you are just the guitar player so its not your fault. Please don't take it as though I am bitching at you because I am not.

This is why I don't lend people gear...


Alright I am done ranting. Apologies everyone...


----------



## Contagion

I hate it when we go on, and there is saliva all over the stage because the bands before us decide to spit all over the stage.


----------



## Robrecht

John Pattison said:


> Think I'd have to say my pet is too much dead time between songs. Buy a guitar that'll stay in tune already!



This really is so important. It's the main thing we focus on during pre-gig rehearsals (well, besides being able to play the songs themselves perfectly of course).

You build up atmosphere during each song -- that's what playing live is about: making the audience feel that something's happening and they're part of it -- and when the song ends and the band members are all just standing around (tuning, talking among each other, drinking, grinning sheepishly at the crowd), bam, that atmosphere gets thrown right out of the window.

If your singer has a natural showmanship and good stage banter that keeps the atmosphere intact, great. If (s)he doesn't (and most people don't), just make sure transitions from song to song are absolutely watertight and short. Practise them. Time them. Use pre-recorded samples to bridge the gap, if need be. And get a guitar that stays in tune, for christ's sake.

I guess the main thing is to see a concert not as a bunch of separate songs but as a single whole, like a play or a movie, with a single arc that builds up and intensifies -- unless it's interrupted.


----------



## Contagion

I use a Loop Station in between songs with ambient sounds and whatever while everyone tunes, get's a drink of water, etc. Also use it for samples.


----------



## chassless

being from Lebanon, and seeing every act communicate in english with the audience, i want to say, speaking in the audience's language is far more convincing than a standard english, even if your songs are in english...


----------



## BlueGrot

Never disconnect DI connected gear unless you're given the green light to do so or your show is done. Glad I high passed everything at 40 and had a limiter on my master bus. Still, ow.


----------



## BlueGrot

ghostred7 said:


> IDGAF about this one. As a combat veteran with herniated disk in my spine....I hit times where it's either "continue the show sitting" or "too much fvcking pain to keep playing." If the latter, treating it goes into the "getting wasted" category. 99% of the time I just suck it up and keep going through the tears of pain. Dat 1% tho...screw everything but comfort lol



If you have to sit, sit. It's fine. Only kids care.


----------



## BlueGrot

Carrion Rocket said:


> If you're the vocalist, know what to do with your hands.



Yeah, if you don't play an instrument and hold your mic with your hands, you really need to never let it point towards or get near the monitors. It just shows thaty you're really inexperienced.


----------



## BlueGrot

I actually made a list for a crash course in stage rigging that I held this summer. Some of the points apply to musicians as well.

1. Never assume. If you say "I think..." you need to examine things. I've had artists who probably had this internal monologue: "I think it's fine to plug my electrical water kettle into this outlet" and tripped a fuse.

2. Never be afraid to ask questions. There's bound to be someone who knows information that you need to know. "No, that water kettle is 2000w and the circuit is on a 16 amp fuse, so you cannot plug that there when we're running the backline on the circuit."

3. Smile, be happy. We're all in this together and happiness spreads. Applies to everyone doing the show, both artists, promoters and crew.

4. Health and safety come first, never do pyro or elaborate rigs without qualified personnel. People die or get crippled for life regularly due to lack of competence.

Must haves for a seasoned live musician/tech:
Coffee
Robust rigging gloves
Black clothes (for techs, you're not doing a fashion show)
Flashlight, don't run around with your cellphone
Multi tool
Duct tape, a good(expensive) one
Multimeter
Schedule for the day
9V/AA/AAA-batteries
Cellphone on mute
Trail mix, preferably just nuts, no chocolate. A handful of this is a couple hundred calories and will keep your body and positive attitude going for longer


----------



## Nanzivino

Often because you didn't help out other bands.


----------



## WishIwasfinnish

This has probably been mentioned in this thread but don't you or your asshole roadies/stage techs do front flips off the stage into the crowd/be reckless when doing a stage dive. Stage dives of any kind always annoy me. A boot to the head is a real buzzkill.


----------



## RustInPeace

Having taken on the mantel of being the "sound guy" with about a dozen shows under my belt now, a few things..

1. There is precious time between bands for tear down/set up of gear, if it is needed. Please take your .... out of the way when you finish, and THEN go bask in your glory and pump your ego in the crowd, k thanks.

2. Sharing is caring. I often start a gig by talking with all the bands and seeing if theres any gear we can all share. Cabinets and bass amps are big winners. Most guitar players want to use their amps, but have no problem sharing a good mesa cab between everyone. It makes teardown/up a lot faster too. Bass players are the best - if someone brings a good bass amp, its usually the only one set up for the whole night. Drummers are usually the most picky.

3. No, I wont be switching out the entire PA system for yours because "Its our sound"

4. Speaking of bass, I dont see the reason why a bass needs to be put through a PA. Most bass amps are powerful enough to be heard on their own in the average club. I find a bass through a PA is a quick way to mud everything up.


----------



## RustInPeace

BlueGrot said:


> I actually made a list for a crash course in stage rigging that I held this summer. Some of the points apply to musicians as well.
> 
> 1. Never assume. If you say "I think..." you need to examine things. I've had artists who probably had this internal monologue: "I think it's fine to plug my electrical water kettle into this outlet" and tripped a fuse.
> 
> 2. Never be afraid to ask questions. There's bound to be someone who knows information that you need to know. "No, that water kettle is 2000w and the circuit is on a 16 amp fuse, so you cannot plug that there when we're running the backline on the circuit."
> 
> 3. Smile, be happy. We're all in this together and happiness spreads. Applies to everyone doing the show, both artists, promoters and crew.
> 
> 4. Health and safety come first, never do pyro or elaborate rigs without qualified personnel. People die or get crippled for life regularly due to lack of competence.
> 
> Must haves for a seasoned live musician/tech:
> Coffee
> Robust rigging gloves
> Black clothes (for techs, you're not doing a fashion show)
> Flashlight, don't run around with your cellphone
> Multi tool
> Duct tape, a good(expensive) one
> Multimeter
> Schedule for the day
> 9V/AA/AAA-batteries
> Cellphone on mute
> Trail mix, preferably just nuts, no chocolate. A handful of this is a couple hundred calories and will keep your body and positive attitude going for longer



This is a good list. I also bring paper and pens to write things down like equipment changes for upcoming bands. I'll ask bands way before how many vocal mics or guitars they are running, and plan accordingly.


----------



## KingAenarion

BlueGrot said:


> Must haves for a seasoned live musician/tech:
> Coffee
> Robust rigging gloves
> Black clothes (for techs, you're not doing a fashion show)
> Flashlight, don't run around with your cellphone
> Multi tool
> Duct tape, a good(expensive) one
> Multimeter
> Schedule for the day
> 9V/AA/AAA-batteries
> Cellphone on mute
> Trail mix, preferably just nuts, no chocolate. A handful of this is a couple hundred calories and will keep your body and positive attitude going for longer



- Bits/adapters box with bits marked as yours (headphone jacks, adapters of every shape, size, and colour)
- Patch cables, Y-cables. I carry 1 good solid guitar cable and 2 good long mic cables as well
- Water bottle
- iPod/mp3 player you can leave at the sound desk for house music with different playlists for different style gigs
- Masking tape + permanent marker to label things
- Need Gaffa, electrical and duct tape. (Ideally gaffa in 2 different colours - black and red. 1 for taping .... down and 1 for marking ....)
- Earplugs
- Over-ear headphones (I'd recommend ATH-M50s)
- dB meter (phone ones are rubbish)

These days I also find myself taking an iPad more for digital mixers with remote control, but it's not necessary.


----------



## chassless

... it's gaffer tape


----------



## KingAenarion

chassless said:


> ... it's gaffer tape



true. Buuut typing on my phone and auto correct to my lazy mans spelling 

¯\_(&#12484_/¯


----------



## NicePants

Never bring or use picks that are more expensive than you are willing to lose. I saw a fight break out between a guitarist and some people in the audience once at a show because the guitarist decided to bring his special snowflake gold trimmed laser engraved bio-luminescent rare mongolian spider crystal picks that cost $50 each and he lost like 2 of them. 

If you feel like you have to take a dump and get the idea in your head that "nah I'll do it after," don't do that. No one wins.

Also, just to reiterate what everyone else has been saying about lending gear, generally you don't want to do that unless you know the person well enough to know they won't trash your stuff. Personally, I'm semi-okay with lending amps and stuff like cables as long as they aren't abusing it or anything, but guitars I will never ever loan out unless it's someone I am incredibly close with, and even then they'll get a 10 page essay of stuff they aren't allowed to do with it. Even if I was playing a crappy $40 kids' junior squier, I wouldn't loan it out. I've heard too many horror stories of dumbass kids wrecking $2k guitars and then not being able to pay for them.


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

NicePants said:


> If you feel like you have to take a dump and get the idea in your head that "nah I'll do it after," don't do that. No one wins.



QFT


----------



## leecloudpitt

I'm with Popsyche: "Control your ....ing stage volume!"
As a live show producer running the board, I like to hear the whole band. The guitarist who keeps cranking up to stay on top of the mix is a nightmare for me. It reaches the point soon that I've slid guitar fader all the way down out of the mix and it's still splitting yer ears. If I turn up everything else then all the sweetness of the music is lost and it's just a din. Sorry to pick on guitar players, but it's usually the instrument that rules the high end of the mix and is all too easy to crank louder and louder and louder.... While I'm at it bitching, I'll also say that IMHO too many guitarists over-do the treble. Go for a sound with guts!


----------



## MajorTom

There is nothing wrong with wearing a kilt on stage, I do it quite a lot, especially around the holiday season, I always wear them for Christmas and New Years Eve gigs.

Besides I've been told I have nice legs.


----------



## MrBouleDeBowling

Quite an obvious one and probably already said again and again in the thread: don't be a dick. It makes people never wanna work with you again, no matter how much you kicked ass on stage.

Also, in my experience, pack your own gear when you leave. Never count on somebody else to do it, even if you have to leave earlier than the rest. There is always someone who forgets something.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

AlexCorriveau said:


> Quite an obvious one and probably already said again and again in the thread: don't be a dick. It makes people never wanna work with you again, no matter how much you kicked ass on stage.
> 
> Also, in my experience, pack your own gear when you leave. Never count on somebody else to do it, even if you have to leave earlier than the rest. There is always someone who forgets something.





I learned this one years ago when my bassist left his cabinet in the middle of the street in Albany NY.

Help each other out lugging .... and hell, help the other bands out too but when it is time to leave. Check YOUR .... and make sure you have it.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

Moltar said:


> You know I saw this post and video months ago and was disgusted, but now seeing it again I just have to say something.
> 
> What kind of idiot doesn't realize he is about to puke? Most people have at least 10 seconds if not 30 before they actually puke. There is no excuse for what this idiot did.
> 
> What are the chances that he stayed around and cleaned it up? Or cleaned it up before the next band went on? What are the chances that any ruined gear(monitors, microphones) were payed for? I hope the owner of the ruined gear took this ....wit to small claims court.
> 
> To top it off, lets spit the remaining puke into the audience! That will surely win over your potential fans!
> 
> I know you are just the guitar player so its not your fault. Please don't take it as though I am bitching at you because I am not.
> 
> This is why I don't lend people gear...
> 
> 
> Alright I am done ranting. Apologies everyone...





I would highly recommend doing this at any chance you have.


----------



## sevenchaos

My list as mixing engineer would be something like this.

- Don't turn your volumes up after soundcheck. Also don't start to change any settings on your amp. We had time on soundcheck and whole band played couple full songs, so there was your time to tell if somethings wrong. If you want to hear yourself more, just ask that i put some more volume to your monitor.

- When i ask you is this microphone in good position for you to play, just tell that it isn't. If you decide to move for example snare drum mic during show somewhere else, i can't do a lot for the sound anymore. 

- When we are doing guitar sounds, don't smash your drums like a headless maniac and vice versa.

- Come to the place on time. If the sound check time has gone, there is no way that i'm able to change current places policies for time's. For example lot's of places want that band has done their soundcheck before 2pm cuz they are having from 3 to 8 pm some other events. (restaurants have ala cartes, concert halls might have some theater rehearsals and so on.)

- Don't leave your drinks on the floor. There is lot's of electrics, and also some stages get very slippery when your drinks are all over the floor. I actually remember one gig where someone accidentally kicked he's drink to the floor. Singer and guitarist where doing something 80's hard rock moves and they both slipped to the stage. ATM it wasn't so funny but now we have had good laughs with those guys when ever im doing gig with them.

- Do not try that is your mic working by putting it in front of the PA system 

- Wait for your turn on the soundcheck. I will adjust everything in specifc order. It doesn't help when im doing kick sound and you are shredding your 16ths notes and tapping faster then anyone on track and field ever has.

I could continue this list for ages but those are things that most of the people do, when they don't have so much experience doing live shows.


----------



## lewis

vocalists
never say "buy our EP because our band is the best band on the card tonight"
and yes Ive witnessed this happening myself for real.

Guitarists
dont keep playing with a snapped string thats dangling down and muting the other strings and creating all sorts of weird scratchy noises over the top of your playing.
Yes Ive witnessed this happening too.

soundguys in the Norfolk, UK area....

just stop...please, just...please stop now. It would honestly be better if no soundguy turned up and we had to do our own levels etc. Honestly Im not being a dick, but it really would in this instance. This area is a joke. (ive done shows allover the UK and its only this area these issues exist. I live here myself so Ive experienced too many now)

drummers
dont keep leaving the rest of your band mates to be the ones to mostly pack up your stuff.
Our last drummer genuinely lost a whole trigger set for his kit and multiple cymbals, because after the show he was like "you guys picked all my stuff up right?". To which the answer was "no man?. We have all our own gear to worry about. You must have left them at the venue, quick go back and find out"

......all gear was missing. I.e stolen.


----------



## cip 123

lewis said:


> soundguys in the Norfolk, UK area....
> 
> just stop...please, just...please stop now. It would honestly be better if no soundguy turned up and we had to do our own levels etc. Honestly Im not being a dick, but it really would in this instance. This area is a joke. (ive done shows allover the UK and its only this area these issues exist. I live here myself so Ive experienced too many now)



Funnily enough my band just played a show which wasn't organised very well so we had to do our own sound, it wasn't a great mix on stage, I could barely hear my keys player, but I just needed drums.

The front of house sound though went down very well, so yea maybe just do it yourselves, we had a friend doing levels and they didn't have any live sound experience. 

My own input, don't use a headstock tuner, or phone, It sounds simple, but my bassist has on multiple occasions been tuning on stage with one. Even when the volumes not up it just looks unprofessional. Buy a pedal or borrow one, it'll save you time and everyone else.


----------



## bostjan

I use an SOS tuner. I don't care if people think it looks unprofessional. I can tune as quickly and as quietly and more accurately than anyone with a pedal.

Regarding sound guys - I've run into more than a handful around here as well, that, sorry to say, have no idea what they are doing. And I say that as an audience member. I've seen bands with huge subs who had the sound guy pushing all highs and cutting all of the lows, to the point where people were complaining about earaches and headaches and such. I've been to dozens of shows with the same one guy doing sound where everything was feeding back the entire time, and the mix was a total mushy mess. A lot of folks got turned off of seeing live bands because the sound was so bad. It pissed me off to find out that the sound guy was making more than the entire band was getting paid in most cases.

I'm not going to say that doing sound is super easy, but I will say this: doing sound perfectly is impossible to do. A sound engineer can spend thousands of hours honing his craft to get 99% of the way to perfection, but to simply cover the basics, it really only takes 20 minutes to learn how to get control of feedback and to make sure you know how to mute and unmute channels. If you are charging people $200 to run sound, and then ....ing up so bad that everything is feeding back and vocal mics end up being muted and it takes you several seconds to unmute them during the actual show, then you should be sued.

That said, I've worked with a few really talented sound guys who didn't charge my band a penny, and, in one case even refused a tip.


----------



## lewis

bostjan said:


> I use an SOS tuner. I don't care if people think it looks unprofessional. I can tune as quickly and as quietly and more accurately than anyone with a pedal.
> 
> Regarding sound guys - I've run into more than a handful around here as well, that, sorry to say, have no idea what they are doing. And I say that as an audience member. I've seen bands with huge subs who had the sound guy pushing all highs and cutting all of the lows, to the point where people were complaining about earaches and headaches and such. I've been to dozens of shows with the same one guy doing sound where everything was feeding back the entire time, and the mix was a total mushy mess. A lot of folks got turned off of seeing live bands because the sound was so bad. It pissed me off to find out that the sound guy was making more than the entire band was getting paid in most cases.
> 
> I'm not going to say that doing sound is super easy, but I will say this: doing sound perfectly is impossible to do. A sound engineer can spend thousands of hours honing his craft to get 99% of the way to perfection, but to simply cover the basics, it really only takes 20 minutes to learn how to get control of feedback and to make sure you know how to mute and unmute channels. If you are charging people $200 to run sound, and then ....ing up so bad that everything is feeding back and vocal mics end up being muted and it takes you several seconds to unmute them during the actual show, then you should be sued.
> 
> That said, I've worked with a few really talented sound guys who didn't charge my band a penny, and, in one case even refused a tip.



this is so f**king true. And the worst part?. Feeling like you have to butter them up incase they F**K up the sound EVEN more.

I have had the same treble max type eq setups from soundguys that cause earaches etc, and STILL felt like I had to tell him he is doing a good job before my band started out of fear it got worse.

them getting paid well is an absolute joke. I played a show once (backing tracks) where at our own rehearsal room sounded amazing, where we sounded so bad thanks to these "soundguys" (yeah they werent soundguys at all) and literally got £10 at the end of the night to share around 4 ways, whereas you know the useless soundguy, who made everyone think you are only a £10 band, gets loads in comparison. Its disgraceful.
I wont hold back any longer. Im not buttering up anyone anymore. If you are genuinely Horsesh*t at your job, i will be telling you so. People defending them as being a "hard job".??

f*ck me, try playing the intricate songs us musicians write and are expected to execute to a flawless level live, whilst still looking the part, all the while putting your entire bands sound and reputation in the hands of a 2-bit fraudster?.

Yet pushing some volume sliders up or down to get a basic balanced mix, is "hard"?. Yeah sure it is.


----------



## BenSolace

lewis said:


> this is so f**king true. And the worst part?. Feeling like you have to butter them up incase they F**K up the sound EVEN more.
> 
> I have had the same treble max type eq setups from soundguys that cause earaches etc, and STILL felt like I had to tell him he is doing a good job before my band started out of fear it got worse.
> 
> them getting paid well is an absolute joke. I played a show once (backing tracks) where at our own rehearsal room sounded amazing, where we sounded so bad thanks to these "soundguys" (yeah they werent soundguys at all) and literally got £10 at the end of the night to share around 4 ways, whereas you know the useless soundguy, who made everyone think you are only a £10 band, gets loads in comparison. Its disgraceful.
> I wont hold back any longer. Im not buttering up anyone anymore. If you are genuinely Horsesh*t at your job, i will be telling you so. People defending them as being a "hard job".??
> 
> f*ck me, try playing the intricate songs us musicians write and are expected to execute to a flawless level live, whilst still looking the part, all the while putting your entire bands sound and reputation in the hands of a 2-bit fraudster?.
> 
> Yet pushing some volume sliders up or down to get a basic balanced mix, is "hard"?. Yeah sure it is.



 Dude, I love your candor! It's like you've just spoken out for all the frustrated musicians who have had to deal with this kind of scenario.


----------



## lewis

BenHughesDS said:


> Dude, I love your candor! It's like you've just spoken out for all the frustrated musicians who have had to deal with this kind of scenario.


haha thanks man! 
and here here!. We have all been there, we have all been screwed over in sound AND payment and we all deserve to not take it any longer.
Sick of it. 
Can shove their scooped mids, max treble up their Arse.

one time we played a show where the "soundguy" didnt turn up for soundchecks...... rolled in 20 mins before Doors were opening, with no equipment/mics anything. Then tried to defend himself by saying that although he knew this show was today, he had a late night getting wasted and "only just woke up"?

erm...right ok... you are forgiven then?


----------



## bostjan

Just saw a show the other day- band did their own sound. It sounded great- not too loud, not too quiet; perfect balance of all of the instruments and vocals. I've seen this band a bunch of times. Every time they do their own sound, they sound great. Every time they get one of the "union" soundguys who are required by some venues, there is feedback and there are mishaps with the vocals being muted at the wrong times. You could say that maybe the difference between the room acoustics explains why the feedback is so bad and why they need a "professional" soundman there....

Uh huh, except that I had played at many of the same venues before they had sound guys and I never had trouble with feedback, and now I've played one or two venues that stopped having the require-hire soundguys hence, and had no problems. The only time I had trouble was when I was running sound for a metal band that was playing at a 30-person venue with an 8x10 bass rig and two guitars were both running 2x4x12 guitar cabs, and I only brought a 1500 W PA system (which I thought would be appropriate for the venue.



lewis said:


> haha thanks man!
> and here here!. We have all been there, we have all been screwed over in sound AND payment and we all deserve to not take it any longer.
> Sick of it.
> Can shove their scooped mids, max treble up their Arse.
> 
> one time we played a show where the "soundguy" didnt turn up for soundchecks...... rolled in 20 mins before Doors were opening, with no equipment/mics anything. Then tried to defend himself by saying that although he knew this show was today, he had a late night getting wasted and "only just woke up"?
> 
> erm...right ok... you are forgiven then?



I ran into a similar situation once when I was doing sound. I already ran through soundcheck with the band. 30 minutes later, this other sound man shows up and says it's his gig and he's "in the union," so I'd better make like a leaf and blow out of there. When I started packing up my stuff, this dude was like "whoah there pal, you can't take away the equipment!" I explained to the guy that it was my stuff, so if I wasn't going to be running sound, then I was going to pack up my stuff and come back and just enjoy the show. It turned out that the other guy didn't bring any sort of amplifier nor a mixer nor any speakers, only mics and stands and cables. He didn't seem to understand the super-basic concept of not using someone else's shit. It ended up being totally stupid, with him leaving to go "borrow a PA system from someone" while I ran the sound for free until he got back. I talked to the venue manager, and that guy confirmed that I was booked by mistake, and he offered me free drinks for the evening for my trouble, but no pay. So I ran sound for the first band, then tore down my stuff and let the other guy take over for the last two bands, except that he left after the second band and I had to take back over for the third. As if the stage wasn't chaotic enough with bands frantically loading in and out at the same time...but no way I was going to let one of these "union" soundguys squeal feedback through my system for 1-2 sets.


----------



## TedEH

^ That's pretty insane.

To add to the "don't do this" list:
I saw a "band" recently that showed up with just a guitar and a bass, and some backing tracks. Fine, I'll be open minded about it...
But they couldn't follow their own backing tracks. Half the set was false starts and trainwrecks.

Seems to me the #1 don't of show playing is don't play shows if you can't get through a set.
I can be forgiving of trainwrecks, but not when it's clear that the band is really not show-ready.


----------



## lewis

bostjan said:


> Just saw a show the other day- band did their own sound. It sounded great- not too loud, not too quiet; perfect balance of all of the instruments and vocals. I've seen this band a bunch of times. Every time they do their own sound, they sound great. Every time they get one of the "union" soundguys who are required by some venues, there is feedback and there are mishaps with the vocals being muted at the wrong times. You could say that maybe the difference between the room acoustics explains why the feedback is so bad and why they need a "professional" soundman there....
> 
> Uh huh, except that I had played at many of the same venues before they had sound guys and I never had trouble with feedback, and now I've played one or two venues that stopped having the require-hire soundguys hence, and had no problems. The only time I had trouble was when I was running sound for a metal band that was playing at a 30-person venue with an 8x10 bass rig and two guitars were both running 2x4x12 guitar cabs, and I only brought a 1500 W PA system (which I thought would be appropriate for the venue.
> 
> 
> 
> *I ran into a similar situation once when I was doing sound. I already ran through soundcheck with the band. 30 minutes later, this other sound man shows up and says it's his gig and he's "in the union," so I'd better make like a leaf and blow out of there. When I started packing up my stuff, this dude was like "whoah there pal, you can't take away the equipment!" I explained to the guy that it was my stuff, so if I wasn't going to be running sound, then I was going to pack up my stuff and come back and just enjoy the show. It turned out that the other guy didn't bring any sort of amplifier nor a mixer nor any speakers, only mics and stands and cables. He didn't seem to understand the super-basic concept of not using someone else's shit. It ended up being totally stupid, with him leaving to go "borrow a PA system from someone" while I ran the sound for free until he got back. I talked to the venue manager, and that guy confirmed that I was booked by mistake, and he offered me free drinks for the evening for my trouble, but no pay. So I ran sound for the first band, then tore down my stuff and let the other guy take over for the last two bands, except that he left after the second band and I had to take back over for the third. As if the stage wasn't chaotic enough with bands frantically loading in and out at the same time...but no way I was going to let one of these "union" soundguys squeal feedback through my system for 1-2 sets*.




this is literally like reading my own experiences.
also....what an absolute shambles.
Ive also had gigs where not only is the sound guy on the night exactly like we are saying about leaving everyone seriously stressed, but also some bands on the card have turned up with no gear..yep NO GEAR and then 30 mins before Doors are going around asking all the other bands. "Yeah so we are cool to borrow your amps and stuff yeah"?

its honestly an absolute disgrace. Its one thing to book shows when you have gear but its abit crappy (budget stuff and we have all been there and started out right) and another thing to book shows knowing you actually have no amps and dont even bother trying to either hire amps in advance, or even communicate with the other bands well before the night of the gig to see if anyone will be nice enough to actually lend out their gear.
(I still wouldnt because for me there is a principal of the thing). Why should I take it seriously, spending a fortune on pro equipment and spending all the time in the world perfecting my craft, only for a band on the same show as me, to turn up with nothing, and be not well drilled in their craft, only to benefit from my sweet setup?

Erm the answer is a resounding NO you bunch fraudsters.


----------



## bostjan

I had a good laugh a few months ago. I was doing a micrometal gig, and I was opening up for a long list of other bands, and the second band didn't bring any guitars and wanted to borrow mine.

I've run into plenty of bands who assumed someone else would take care of amps and drums, but to show up with nothing but your fingers (no amps, no instruments, no picks...)


----------



## Blasphemer

Being both a musician and professional live engineer, both reading these posts and thinking of my own past experiences (on stage) have me in a combination of cringing and grinding my teeth out of anger.

Last time my band went out on the road, we didn't have a competent sound tech the _entire_ tour. And we're an instrumental band. There's no vocals to get above the drums or guitars, and our samples/backing tracks are almost entirely for between-song ambience. We're probably one of the easiest bands in the world to mix, doubly so since I spend a LOT of time making sure our sound is stage-friendly. All preset levels are tested and metered at rehearsal, solos have mid-boosts to pop them above the mix, the samples are all level matched, etc. This, however, was too much for some of the guys running sound for us. We're on self-contained in ears, and the guys at the board still insisted on pumping random stuff into the wedges against our wishes. Our stage plot literally explains this and other things in the most plain English possible, and yet it's just plain ignored. I feel like this picture perfectly describes the level of experience we were dealing with:






Look at that EQ. JUST LOOK AT IT. Why not just turn the damn wedge down?? Why create a shitty, phasey mess for the people who have to deal with your deaf incompetence?!

As I said, this is all made like 10x worse because I do this for a living. I work with a range of gear from behringer outboard gear and 30 year old consoles to PAs that cost more than a house and the absolute top of the line digital consoles. Seeing these guys make all the exact wrong moves when stuff starts taking off is so frustrating, but I KNOW that if I step in and help, I'll pretty much be stuck at the board for the rest of the night while the dude getting paid gets schlocked at the bar. There's no right answer expect to grit my teeth and deal with it, and make a note to think twice before playing X venue again. 

This even recently happened at one of my favorite local haunts. I did sound there for a few years as the house "metal guy". I pretty much always got comments from the staff about how much better it sounded when I was there, and audience members saying it was the "best xxx place has ever sounded". I eventually had to stop because my schedule really picked up and the money just wasn't worth the stress, anymore (it may have sounded okay, but I was absolutely fighting for every last bit of sonic fidelity and headroom out of that joke of a PA). My band played there in April, which was maybe 10 or so months after I had left, and the house guy was a joke. He only put mics on the kick drum, snare, vocals and a DI for the bass. No guitars, no toms, and we had to argue with him to get a line for our samples. The kick mic stand, placement, and mic itself was horrendously stupid and bad. Needless to say, it sounded terrible. Halfway through our set, people were telling us that they couldn't hear the guitars, and literally all I could do was shrug and point at the sound guy. It was embarrassing and enraging. 


Sorry for the rant, that just kind of all flowed out after reading your guys posts


----------



## TedEH

Showed up once for a show that took place in some kind of gym/auditorium. Terrible sounding room to begin with, so I don't blame them for that bit. There was a small stage riser type dealie at one end that I expected the band would be on. The space on this stage was cleared off and some PA speakers were thrown in the front two corners. They then proceeded to put some drums and guitar cabs.... in front of the PA. Also, no monitors. Also, no mics except for the singer. When the first band started playing, they couldn't turn the mic up loud enough to be heard over the band without it feeding back horribly. I suggested moving the PA speakers so that they'd be in front of the band, and the sound guy / PA owner had a fit, telling me he "knows how to use his own f*king gear", and how dare I come from out of town and start telling people what to do.

Unrelated - last time I did sound was for a small fundraiser event that just had a few acoustic performances and things like that between talks. I'm not really a live sound guy, but I've done enough shows as a performer that I get the basic ideas. I rented a small PA- couple o main speakers, couple o monitors, some 58s, 57s, bunch of cables, etc., and set them up the best I could in the room. It went alright for some performers, but for others, ones with no stage experience, it was a struggle keeping everything audible. One or two of the performers refused to use ANY volume. They strummed as quietly as possible and basically just hummed the lyrics to themselves, forcing me to push the PA as loud as I could get it for them to carry across the room- at which point they would hear themselves and back away from the mics out of stage fright. Compounding that, every time I stepped away from the board, there was a new drunk guy who thought he knew better and would try to "fix" it, which would instead cause terrible feedback, for which I'd get yelled at, and was bad enough for one of the performers to just quit in the middle of a song. 

I'm probably glad I'm not a real live sound guy.


----------



## bostjan

So, @Blasphemer brings up the perfect point for this thread:

Q) What is the appropriate course of action to follow when the sound guy is a complete shithead?

The key to a successful musical career is to know the right people. Know the right drummer, know the right bassist, know the right sound guys, know the right venue managers, know the right promoters, etc.

Preparing for a show is a big deal. I think that's where a lot of us drop the ball. We know, or think we know, how to successfully prepare to book a show, but once the show is booked, what do you do?

1. Fliers. Print them, or electronically post them everywhere. But you *have* to get the word out that you are doing a show. If you are doing a lot of shows, people might be following you already, but it doesn't hurt. You don't want to stupidly overpromote, but really, IMO, overdoing it is much safer than underdoing it.
2. Orchestrate not just your music, but your entire stage show. This could mean lights, theatrics, whatever. People come to see you to be entertained, so be entertaining.
*** I think this part is where the sound man is important - he/she is part of the show as well. If you have your own sound engineer, that person should be at one of your rehearsals closest to your show date. If you are using a house-provided engineer, it's best to get to know the person, and communicate your expectations and needs. If the person still sucks so bad at the job of running sound, then, IMO, it is okay to insist on using your own sound engineer. If you are using a house-provided PA, this might be impossible to insist, but it might be necessary.
3. Always have mitigation plans. Your drummer is a great guy, and only he really understands your music. But you may have to keep close touch with a backup, or at least someone who can lend drums if your drummer's set gets stolen or otherwise becomes inaccessible. If your drummer doesn't show up, and you have no backup, then be as entertaining and professional as you can be without a drummer. If too many factors eclipse the viability of your show, weigh out your options and then, if it's best for your career to not play, don't play. It's one of the worst options, but sometimes there are no better options. People can be understanding under obvious circumstances. For example, you are a death metal band, and you are playing at a venue when the power goes out. Try to throw together an acoustic jam. If no one has acoustic instruments, it might be best to simply mingle with the audience until the power comes back on or until everyone leaves. If a tornado is coming toward the venue, though, then obviously just get out of there.

I've been in plenty of "just get out of there" situations. I can tell you that not one of those situations could be honestly claimed to be "not the band's fault." I'll break down one particular personal experience from ages ago. My apologies to everyone involved in the story, but I won't name names.

I was in four bands at the same time. I had quite a few contacts and my musical career was going nicely. I met two guys at my work who were in a band. They weren't looking for a guitar player, but after hearing me play at another gig, they offered me a gig with them as an "alternative-rock" band along the lines of Creed/Staind/Trapt/etc. which was a popular style at the time. We got together for a few practices, and I noticed some issues with the band on my end, which I vocalized in hopes of getting things on track with the stated goals of the band. Looking back, I think the issues were more that the stated goals of the singer of the band (make it big) were incongruent with the goals of the other guys (have a few beers with friends and relax). This falls under knowing the right people. None of the people put together in the band were on the same page, and it showed. I used my contacts to get us a gig, under the pretext that everyone would pull together and learn their parts in a month and a half. That falls under being prepared before making next steps. Practices never came together 100%, with the people who needed to be there most not making it. No one did any promotion for this upcoming gig. It was at a well known place, so, everybody assumed people would be there.

Time for the gig anyway. This was a place I had played once or twice before with a much different style of band. Now we were booked to go first on a billing of three bands. Miraculously, we were all there on time and set up and were ready to sound check. No sound guy. That was directly on me. I assumed there would be a sound guy like there was last time - I never asked for a sound guy, though. So I set the levels myself, and off we went. Show time. Hardly anyone is there, maybe twenty patrons, and it's a rather large venue- seats about 200. Ugh. Ok, play song one...song two...and so on. I'm having a blast. The singer sounds like shit, but he's getting into it. Nobody else in the band had played a gig before, so they are nervous as shit and it shows. We cruise through our setlist at record speed, and still have ten minutes left in our set without any material. What do we do? No mitigation plan at all, we go into a very awkward instrumental piece that the bass player doesn't know, so he walks away. The singer starts making out with this woman in the audience no one knew. Ten minutes grind past. Phew, now it's time to pack up...except the venue manager wants us to keep playing. As it turns out, band number two didn't show up. Ugh, umm, now what? Well, we didn't learn to say no, so we decided to jam with the other guitarist on bass and the singer on drums, since we all knew a lot of the same songs that way. BUT WE HAD NEVER REHEARSED THEM. So, awkward cover of Zeppelin, awkward cover of the Doors, etc. etc., it was bad, but not bad enough for our singer's newest groupie to back off. Nope, she's on the stage, groping him and slobbering all over while he's playing drums. The singer/drummer's girlfriend then unexpectedly shows up, and she's pissed. Much screaming ensues. Now it's just me and the other guitar player on stage, and then a fight breaks out and beer bottles go whizzing past my head, and I hear an awful crunch noise. I had forgotten that the backing of the stage was a huge single-paned glass mirror. ...was...

So there is glass everywhere. Three of the five members of the band are involved in fisticuffs, and the venue manager is rushing to the telephone (this was before cell phones were common). I packed up my stuff as fast as I could and jetted. No apologies - nope, I was too damn embarrassed to talk to that venue manager ever again after that, and none of my other bands played there after that cluster.

If I had asked the right questions, knew the right people, or prepared properly for a full scale show, then this could have been far less disastrous. The only positive thing I got from it was an entertaining story and the wisdom of seeing how wrong things go when the essentials of band management are completely disregarded.


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## bostjan

TedEH said:


> Showed up once for a show that took place in some kind of gym/auditorium. Terrible sounding room to begin with, so I don't blame them for that bit. There was a small stage riser type dealie at one end that I expected the band would be on. The space on this stage was cleared off and some PA speakers were thrown in the front two corners. They then proceeded to put some drums and guitar cabs.... in front of the PA. Also, no monitors. Also, no mics except for the singer. When the first band started playing, they couldn't turn the mic up loud enough to be heard over the band without it feeding back horribly. I suggested moving the PA speakers so that they'd be in front of the band, and the sound guy / PA owner had a fit, telling me he "knows how to use his own f*king gear", and how dare I come from out of town and start telling people what to do.



I've seen that too, unfortunately, more than once. I don't know how the idea gets into people's heads that they can push sound from behind the band right into the wall of microphones and then back to the speakers, without causing feedback.



TedEH said:


> Unrelated - last time I did sound was for a small fundraiser event that just had a few acoustic performances and things like that between talks. I'm not really a live sound guy, but I've done enough shows as a performer that I get the basic ideas. I rented a small PA- couple o main speakers, couple o monitors, some 58s, 57s, bunch of cables, etc., and set them up the best I could in the room. It went alright for some performers, but for others, ones with no stage experience, it was a struggle keeping everything audible. One or two of the performers refused to use ANY volume. They strummed as quietly as possible and basically just hummed the lyrics to themselves, forcing me to push the PA as loud as I could get it for them to carry across the room- at which point they would hear themselves and back away from the mics out of stage fright. Compounding that, every time I stepped away from the board, there was a new drunk guy who thought he knew better and would try to "fix" it, which would instead cause terrible feedback, for which I'd get yelled at, and was bad enough for one of the performers to just quit in the middle of a song.
> 
> I'm probably glad I'm not a real live sound guy.



That's too bad. I bet everyone reading this is more competent than half the sound guys in this town. I mean, we have some really good sound guys, but there are just so many who haven't a clue. I can only imagine that anyone so far behind the bell curve must not care enough to read any information about running sound. Basic basic things, like not knowing that a howling, mid-frequency feedback cannot be eliminated by cutting the 5k+ band on the EQ, and then not knowing to turn the volume down to get it to stop. Or when they have a keyboard plugged into a line/mic hybrid input and not knowing that they need to engage the pad, so the keyboard signal just clips out completely and blasts over the top of everything else, even with the volume turned down as far as it will go.

Lucky for me, most of my complaints are from seeing other bands. I have, though, once, not too long ago, had to run across a venue to shut off a squealing channel on a mixer when the sound guy was in a panic with his arms in the air.

Running sound and playing at the same time is pretty daunting. Running sound and singing and playing - fuggetaboutit.


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## Mark Lykkos

This thread is pure gold. I love it. 

I suppose my contribution is don't be an ass and be late to stage for an excessively large amount of time. It causes extra tension in the crowd sometimes, especially if the crowd has already been drinking a lot and a few fights already broke out before the headlining act even gets on stage.


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## Unleash The Fury

What if a stranger from the crowd offers to help you tear down and bring stuff outside, would you let him help or politley refuse his help? 

Because who knows, that cabinet that hes wheeling out the door might be the last time you see it!


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## TedEH

^ Probably more of a context thing. Get a stranger to wheel the cab outside without supervision? No way. Get a stranger to help me lift my 150lbs+ bass cab off the stage and into my car so I don't hurt my self? Absolutely.


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## auntyethel

Sort of along the lines of borrowed equipment... I saw a band whose bassist did those hardcore jumpy flippy things, ended up jamming his headstock into the floor and snapping it off. He then asks to borrow a bass from one of the other bands and the guy actually lent him one. Guy proceeds to do the same moves and broke the borrowed bass as well. I wasn't sure if I felt sorry for the guy who lent him the bass considering how the guy treated his own instrument, I sure as hell wouldn't lend him my bass.

So to the theme of the thread... don't lend people your equipment I suppose. I think not lending someone a piece of gear because of their own foolishness is more 'professional' than the guy not taking responsibility for himself.


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## bostjan

Unleash The Fury said:


> What if a stranger from the crowd offers to help you tear down and bring stuff outside, would you let him help or politley refuse his help?
> 
> Because who knows, that cabinet that hes wheeling out the door might be the last time you see it!


I'd say generally the latter. Probably <10% chance something goes wrong, but it's all about expectation. $15k worth of equipment x 5% chance of something going wrong = $750 expectation cost. Not really worth it, IMO.


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## Screamingdaisy

At 40 pages I skipped/skimmed a lot, but here's mine....

Don't leave your guitar in it's case until the last minute. I've had guitars go significantly out of tune when the stage lights hit it and the strings slackened.

Don't use a clip on tuner. I initially really liked mine. I kept it in my pocket since they look dumb hanging off the headstock and clipped it on when I needed it. Cleaner signal path (guitar-cord-amp). Worked great... until it didn't. One show I was still tuning down when the band kicked off the next song. The stage volume was enough to vibrate my guitar and render the clip on tuner useless. A few shows later the other guitarist noticed he was out mid-song but had no way to quickly fix things since the band was still playing and the clip-on wouldn't lock onto a note. Both of us went back to pedal tuners.

One I noticed last night.... If there's 3-4 bands on the bill don't insist on using your own drums. I can pretty much guaranty that the soundman won't put the time/effort into your kit that he put into the original kit during soundcheck. If someone's willing to let everyone use their kit, use that kit and supplement with your own hardware if necessary.

The opener used the headliners kit. Hour long soundcheck, sounded great. Second act used his own drums... 5 minute sound check. Sounded terrible.


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## lewis

Screamingdaisy said:


> The opener used the headliners kit. Hour long soundcheck, sounded great. Second act used his own drums... 5 minute sound check. Sounded terrible.



This is incredibly accurate.
As tough as it is sometimes to convince headline bands to share the use of their kit, it does benefit the whole show. It always sounds better as you said.


Ive played shows where the headline band has brought their own sound guy but refused the use/help of him for every band bar them as headliners. So basically the whole card sounded damn shit (the provided house soundman was clueless) until the headliners, with their own sound guy stepped up.

that always irked me tbh. Not sure why. I guess a part of that was envy but still, whatever happened to just help a brother out you know?


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## cmtd

lewis said:


> This is incredibly accurate.
> As tough as it is sometimes to convince headline bands to share the use of their kit, it does benefit the whole show. It always sounds better as you said.
> 
> 
> Ive played shows where the headline band has brought their own sound guy but refused the use/help of him for every band bar them as headliners. So basically the whole card sounded damn shit (the provided house soundman was clueless) until the headliners, with their own sound guy stepped up.
> 
> that always irked me tbh. Not sure why. I guess a part of that was envy but still, whatever happened to just help a brother out you know?



I've ran across this "personal" sound guy thing playing out as well. I suppose if you are footing the bill to bring a competent sound guy out on the road, then you don't really owe anyone the charity of his or her work. The main thing that used to annoy me was the volume limiting you would get when opening for other acts. I completely get why it is done, but damn if it doesn't suck to end your set and see what the PA can really do when the sound guy cranks it up for the headliner.


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## lewis

cmtd said:


> I've ran across this "personal" sound guy thing playing out as well. I suppose if you are footing the bill to bring a competent sound guy out on the road, then you don't really owe anyone the charity of his or her work. The main thing that used to annoy me was the volume limiting you would get when opening for other acts. I completely get why it is done, *but damn if it doesn't suck to end your set and see what the PA can really do when the sound guy cranks it up for the headliner*.



Yeah that was exactly where my frustration was. It was about the show in general sounding great to me rather than me only thinking of my own band at the time. It was the principle. I dont know haha.

also if the show is like 2 hours long, and people turn up and see the first 2-3 bands sound UTTER garbage, you run the risk of them leaving before the headliners and their "glossier" sound even happening so its a gamble imo.

sidenote too, I always remember when I first played through a proper P.A. A festival P.A. Bloodstock Festival in the UK.

I had been gigging with the Blackstar ID100 head and my own cab upto that point and never overly impressed with the "live" sound from it.

Used the same head, with my normal tones, at Bloodstock through their proper p.a with a proper sound guy, and it blew my mind. The tone was out of this world. Was running through a wall of 4x12s whilst the mic'd one was being blended back in on stage I believe.

Either way it was unreal and it was what really made me think "Wow digital really CAN sound amazing live if you have a sound guy that knows what he is doing through a decent P.A"

After this I sold my Laney tube amp (didnt want to risk tubes for this performance per se) and my blackstar ID100 and used the funds from selling both to buy a Kemper and the rest is history haha.

(sometimes I really miss that ID100 but it went to a band I was really friendly with to help them out and they love it and tour it so I dont feel that bad. Its gone to a great home)


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## bostjan

lewis said:


> Yeah that was exactly where my frustration was. It was about the show in general sounding great to me rather than me only thinking of my own band at the time. It was the principle. I dont know haha.
> 
> also if the show is like 2 hours long, and people turn up and see the first 2-3 bands sound UTTER garbage, you run the risk of them leaving before the headliners and their "glossier" sound even happening so its a gamble imo.



Maybe things are different in the UK, but here, any local 2 hour+ shows, you can guarantee that anyone coming to see the headliner will show up 5 minutes before the headliner goes on and not check out a single other band there. I've been to shows where the most popular band didn't go on last, and people all left after they finished their set, too. :/

It's exceptionally rare even for bands to stick around longer than just to hear the band immediately ahead of them here. I know people are usually busy, but I really think someone from the band should be there for the entire show, and I think it's shitty and disrespectful for people to show up 5 minutes before setup and leave ten seconds after tear down for their band, but that's just what I always see now. It wasn't even this bad a couple years ago.

And when I've seen bands use their own sound guy locally, they usually have the sound guy only run sound for their band, because they usually aren't present for any of the other bands anyway.

I've also noticed a trend, just this last year or so, of bands showing up without any equipment at all, like just people with clothes on their backs and then these bands will expect to borrow everyone else's equipment - often times, since this is coupled with other bands not be present unless they are actively playing or setting up, it means that bands will sometimes show up with nothing, not perform any songs, do an awkward stand-up routine, and then leave. Unprofessional as it gets, IMO, and I think that needs to change.


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## TedEH

bostjan said:


> bands will sometimes show up with nothing, not perform any songs, do an awkward stand-up routine, and then leave


Does that actually happen?! That's amazing. In a sad way. And I really hope they didn't get paid for it.


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## lewis

TedEH said:


> Does that actually happen?! That's amazing. In a sad way. And I really hope they didn't get paid for it.


Yep it does. Had this myself.

Turned up for a show and we were loading in when a dude who i have never seen or met before , comes up to me and literally says "ah your the guitarist in the headline band yeah? So its cool to use your equipment yeah?".

I was like "erm no it isnt cool. I dont even know you mate. If you wanted to arrange that properly you should have contacted us at least a week ago".
Basically they hadnt brought anything and arrived with the intention of just doing the rounds asking every band to borrow their shit. Unreal


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## bostjan

lewis said:


> Yep it does. Had this myself.
> 
> Turned up for a show and we were loading in when a dude who i have never seen or met before , comes up to me and literally says "ah your the guitarist in the headline band yeah? So its cool to use your equipment yeah?".
> 
> I was like "erm no it isnt cool. I dont even know you mate. If you wanted to arrange that properly you should have contacted us at least a week ago".
> Basically they hadnt brought anything and arrived with the intention of just doing the rounds asking every band to borrow their shit. Unreal


Same happened to me, on two occasions this year. Neither of them realized I was playing guitars with microtonal fretboards.  In neither case, did anyone ask at any time prior to when their band was supposed to be setting up.

I mean, there are a thousand ways that could go wrong:

1. Band before you doesn't use guitars
2. Band before you didn't show up
3. Guitarist from band before you needs to leave right away
4. Guitarist from band before you isn't comfortable with your grubby mitts all over his axe
5. Guitarist from band before you doesn't trust people who wait until the absolute last second to try to borrow something crucially important
6. Guitarist from band before you doesn't use the same tuning as you
7. Guitarist from band before you is cool with you using his stuff, doesn't care that you are going to tune his guitar down a step and a half, plans on sticking around, etc., but something breaks or stops working during the gig, and now you have no idea how to fix it, since it's not your stuff, and, to boot, guitarist from the band before you weighs 14 stone and punches rocks for a warm up.
8. None of the above happens, and everything is pretty much perfect, except you'll sound like shit, because you are using gear with unfamiliar settings, and it's all set up for someone else.

I'd say , but in this case, I feel strongly that it's more than that.


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## Lindmann

I would be okay with it, if someone wanted to use my amp (happend aleady twice)
But I would absolutely not be okay with someone playing my guitar.
I am a Ben Weinman-style live performer myself and I know how quickly one can slam a guitar into something/someone on stage.
Besides that...I don't want anyones filthy hands on by baby...Sharing guitars is like sharing your wife. You just don't do such things!

On the other hand...
As I am an Evertune-Player I would love to see his face, when he wanted to tune the guitar to his bands tunig by despearately turning the tuning pegs to no avail. I would instigate someone of his band to yell at him if he will tune the fucking guitar already.


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## Screamingdaisy

bostjan said:


> Maybe things are different in the UK, but here, any local 2 hour+ shows, you can guarantee that anyone coming to see the headliner will show up 5 minutes before the headliner goes on and not check out a single other band there. I've been to shows where the most popular band didn't go on last, and people all left after they finished their set, too. :/



Went to a show about a month ago where there were three popular bands on the bill and 75% of the bar cleared out between bands and were replaced by a totally different crowd of about the same size.

That said, I think that when the sound is well done you're more likely to keep people around longer. There's generally a crowd that will stick around to hear the next band, but they'll quickly depart if they don't like what they hear.

Short turn around times help too. Nothing worse than waiting 30 minutes between bands.


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## bostjan

Obviously, you want to sound as good as possible. No matter how you sound, though, it does not guarantee a large nor small turnout, particularly in 2017. 

I hate the long changeovers as well. My biggest peeve at these 5+ artist shows is that they'll tell each band what time to set up and what time to go on, and then the second band on the bill decides to throw all of that scheduling in the toilet. If you play second to last, you might as well just give up any expectations of starting on time.


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## lewis

bostjan said:


> Obviously, you want to sound as good as possible. No matter how you sound, though, it does not guarantee a large nor small turnout, particularly in 2017.
> 
> I hate the long changeovers as well. My biggest peeve at these 5+ artist shows is that they'll tell each band what time to set up and what time to go on, and then the second band on the bill decides to throw all of that scheduling in the toilet. If you play second to last, you might as well just give up any expectations of starting on time.


so true.
Ive had when bands have finished and all just casually walked off the stage when they were done and kind of disappeared outside?. Absolutely no urgency. 
Its like..erm guys?. Changeover mofos!. Get your shit out the way.


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## Lindmann

bostjan said:


> If you play second to last, you might as well just give up any expectations of starting on time.


Or the best thing is, when the last band won't be able to play at all (or at least a cut-down set) because the previous bands delayed everything and the venue has a curfew. Did'nt happen to my band but I witnessed this once.



lewis said:


> Absolutely no urgency.
> Its like..erm guys?. Changeover mofos!. Get your shit out the way.


First thing they do is to high-five all their buddies back stage and then rave about their performance.

Whenever this happens I just take their amps and stuff and just put it somewhere at the back of the stage. I definitely won't wait for them to finish their celebrations.

On the other hand...I absolutely hate it when my bandmates feel no urgency to set up their stuff. Especially when someone already indicated that everything's behind schedule and we've got to catch up.
When the bass player doesn't even know how to plug his amp to the cabinet (because he seems to see a fucking speakon connector for the first time in his life) and the vocalist is just standing in the way and watching everyone to get ready.


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## welsh_7stinger

To do with bands fucking up the schedule, when ever ive played anything but opener i all ways panic if the band on before me i dont know atall. I allwasy try to strip down my gear as fast as possible. Due to me being a one man band ill let the band on after me set up the equipment they can while im setting up to save time during change over.


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## MattThePenguin

Is stage left the left side of the stage from the audiences perspective or the band's perspective? I'm pretty sure I gave my sound guy a stomach ulcer the other night. I feel really embarrassed. Also I was playing when he was micing my cab (I absolutely 100% didn't even realize he was there) because I thought something sounded off and when he called me out I was like holy shit I'm that asshole


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## Lindmann

MattThePenguin said:


> Also I was playing when he was micing my cab


Haha...hillarious.
Next time make sure the amp is kranked!
(or dime it while the guy is setting up the mic)

I always assume the sound guy is referring to the audience perspective when saying "left" and "right".
But honestly...I rather prefer the "the guy with the red shirt" and "the guy with the blue shirt" technique.
(doesn't apply for metal bands though...as these guys never heard of colors other than black)


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## bostjan

MattThePenguin said:


> Is stage left the left side of the stage from the audiences perspective or the band's perspective? I'm pretty sure I gave my sound guy a stomach ulcer the other night. I feel really embarrassed. Also I was playing when he was micing my cab (I absolutely 100% didn't even realize he was there) because I thought something sounded off and when he called me out I was like holy shit I'm that asshole


It's from the band's perspective, facing the audience (I did stage lights for my university's theatrical productions).
If there's someone doing sound, I always wait quietly until they tell me to play something, specifically. If I don't know if someone's doing sound or not, I always ask. Usually it's impossible to miss the sound guy if you were there when the band before you set up, or if you are the first band, the sound guy almost always seeks you out to try to get a head start on production. That's why it's important to not show up ten seconds before you are supposed to go on.


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## cwhitey2

Lindmann said:


> ...Besides that...I don't want anyones filthy hands on by baby...Sharing guitars is like sharing your wife. You just don't do such things!



I guess I'm the only swinger on here... 














..aww who am I trying to fool...I don't have a love life or a wife


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## Unleash The Fury

So i will be playing my first show this saturday (at Altones in Jewett City, CT if anyones interested). This is also our first show as a band. Were going on first and have a short 4 song set because thats all we have so far.

I am so excited but i know ill be nervous too. Ive been practicing taking two shots of vodka before our recent rehearsals, and its not enough to make me sloppy, but i really need something to take off the edge. And 2 shots do it for me. 

Its kinda stupid that we have only 4 songs yet i need to bring two guitars because one song is in a different tuning. Not a huge deal just annoying.

Ironically, i am currently quitting this band and pretty much have them my two week notice. I told them id play the show with them and wouldnt leave them high and dry because thatd be fucked up. Im leaving because i dont want to go in the same musical direction they all want to go in. So after this show i am done with them altogether.

So a bittersweet moment it will be. 3 years ive stuck woth the other guitarist and the bassist while weve had so many setbacks, drummer/singer changes........... All this time jamming with these guys and were finally playing our first show ever and my first show EVER, yet my last show with these guys. Man this is a weird fukking situation! They want me to stay but i dont want to do metalcore, yet i have to act like im 100% into it like a rock star on stage, only to say goodbye afterwords.


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## Screamingdaisy

Unleash The Fury said:


> So a bittersweet moment it will be. 3 years ive stuck woth the other guitarist and the bassist while weve had so many setbacks, drummer/singer changes........... All this time jamming with these guys and were finally playing our first show ever and my first show EVER, yet my last show with these guys. Man this is a weird fukking situation! They want me to stay but i dont want to do metalcore, yet i have to act like im 100% into it like a rock star on stage, only to say goodbye afterwords.



Unless you already have another gig lined up I'd stick it out for awhile. Guitarists are a dime a dozen... guitarists with actual stage experience are more valuable. Even if you're not into the music it'll be worth it for the experience and the opportunity to make connections with other musicians.


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## Unleash The Fury

Screamingdaisy said:


> Unless you already have another gig lined up I'd stick it out for awhile. Guitarists are a dime a dozen... guitarists with actual stage experience are more valuable. Even if you're not into the music it'll be worth it for the experience and the opportunity to make connections with other musicians.



The thing is is theyve been wanting to do this mini east coast tour thing which id have to take a week off of work and will cost money. They also seriously want to get in the studio to record more tracks. Although i was initially intending on sticking around for the experience, now everything including touring and recording is coming up so quickly and they wanted a "yes" from me so they can say yes to the tour manager. So i had to put the brakes on and be like WHOA wait a second. I would love to just do shows for the time being but when it comes down to it, why am i going to invest more time and energy into something if my heart and soul is not in the music 100%?

Everything started moving super fast paced and i just cant commit especially when studio time is expensive.

Its a metalcore band with these big tough guy breakdowns and all that hardcore dancing shit and im just like.......dude......no......im not feeling that. At all. I want to do melodeath or just straight death. Not melodic metalcore. Its when the big breakdown is coming up everyones getting excited jumping up and down and giggling. Its like their high on breakdowns. And i cant get excited about that. I actually want to yawn at those parts. I think its so boring and i just cant force myself to do it any longer. 

They need a guitarist who wants to do metalcore


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## Screamingdaisy

Fair enough.

Committing to a mini tour with 4 songs and zero shows seems a bit like putting the cart before the horse...


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## bostjan

As a 37 year old who's been in gigging bands since before he had his learner's permit to drive a car (15), I've seen so many bands do the whole 0-100 on an empty tank thing, and it never pans out.

Going on tour with four songs written, even with a nebulous list of other song ideas to write sometime in between, is just silly. But a lot of bands do this. Pretty much every band I've ever seen that tried to do this had no idea what they were getting themselves into.

I'm sure you have a ton of time invested with these guys, and yes, guitar players are a dime a dozen, but so are metalcore bands. Committing your vacation time, money, and energy to studio time and touring with a dime-a-dozen band without even a notable amount of material written would flat out be a financial mistake. I'm sure people in metalcore bands without material written will try to convince everyone otherwise, but if you have the time, you could probably track down a guitarist in his late 20's or early 30's who went through exactly what they want to put you through, who would advise against it.

When you start a band, there's no "formula," but, as a rule of thumb:

1. Settle on personnel.
2. Settle on musical direction.
3. Settle on a name.
4. Write a handful of songs.
5. Rehearse those songs until they are tight.
6. Play some basement shows or local shows opening for other bands.
7. Make a demo.
8. Write more material.
9. Then, if you've found a satisfactory level of success after step 8, go on tour or go into the studio.

Stuff happens, and your band might need to go back to step one at any time. If it's a major upheaval, you might have to repeat through steps 2-8 again.  That's the part I hate most about being in a band - everything is so fleeting and people are so fickle.

Is it possible to do this entire list backwards? No, I really don't think so. Maybe you write one song, come up with a name, then find band mates, and make a demo, and then go to the studio to write and record an album, but this only happens if you are independently wealthy, and even then you have virtually zero chance of success (Corey Feldman's musical career in a nutshell).


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## Unleash The Fury

bostjan said:


> As a 37 year old who's been in gigging bands since before he had his learner's permit to drive a car (15), I've seen so many bands do the whole 0-100 on an empty tank thing, and it never pans out.
> 
> Going on tour with four songs written, even with a nebulous list of other song ideas to write sometime in between, is just silly. But a lot of bands do this. Pretty much every band I've ever seen that tried to do this had no idea what they were getting themselves into.
> 
> I'm sure you have a ton of time invested with these guys, and yes, guitar players are a dime a dozen, but so are metalcore bands. Committing your vacation time, money, and energy to studio time and touring with a dime-a-dozen band without even a notable amount of material written would flat out be a financial mistake. I'm sure people in metalcore bands without material written will try to convince everyone otherwise, but if you have the time, you could probably track down a guitarist in his late 20's or early 30's who went through exactly what they want to put you through, who would advise against it.
> 
> When you start a band, there's no "formula," but, as a rule of thumb:
> 
> 1. Settle on personnel.
> 2. Settle on musical direction.
> 3. Settle on a name.
> 4. Write a handful of songs.
> 5. Rehearse those songs until they are tight.
> 6. Play some basement shows or local shows opening for other bands.
> 7. Make a demo.
> 8. Write more material.
> 9. Then, if you've found a satisfactory level of success after step 8, go on tour or go into the studio.
> 
> Stuff happens, and your band might need to go back to step one at any time. If it's a major upheaval, you might have to repeat through steps 2-8 again.  That's the part I hate most about being in a band - everything is so fleeting and people are so fickle.
> 
> Is it possible to do this entire list backwards? No, I really don't think so. Maybe you write one song, come up with a name, then find band mates, and make a demo, and then go to the studio to write and record an album, but this only happens if you are independently wealthy, and even then you have virtually zero chance of success (Corey Feldman's musical career in a nutshell).



Well if it makes any difference, im actually the only one in the band that has never played out before. Everyone has played out before in other bands.

Also, there actually arent too many metalcore bands in this area. Its mainly death/thrash with a select few djent and punk/hardcore bands sprinkled here and there.

Its even more tough for me to break it off with everyone because we practice at my house. So everyones gear is at my house and i had to tell everyone basically time to pack it up and move on. 

My basement is so empty, all but everyones stuff packed to the side, ready to grab and load the van on saturday. Never to return to my basement.


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## Dayn

Unless you're doing it purely for the passion of doing it (which you're not), then it's a business decision. At least you made the right call to not get involved in what would be a bad decision for yourself. No business is better than bad business.

However, it sounds like a good time to hit the ground running and learn all you can - including putting on a good show for people even if you don't feel it yourself. Because that'll happen, but the only people who matter are your audience. So rock the fuck out with all you have.

Edit: you've probably performed already before you read this, but hope it went well regardless.


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## Unleash The Fury

Dayn said:


> Unless you're doing it purely for the passion of doing it (which you're not), then it's a business decision. At least you made the right call to not get involved in what would be a bad decision for yourself. No business is better than bad business.
> 
> However, it sounds like a good time to hit the ground running and learn all you can - including putting on a good show for people even if you don't feel it yourself. Because that'll happen, but the only people who matter are your audience. So rock the fuck out with all you have.
> 
> Edit: you've probably performed already before you read this, but hope it went well regardless.



We perform tonight. I am nervous, but im excited. Hopefully my nerves go away once we start playing!


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## Screamingdaisy

Two shots of whisky.

Enough to smooth things out... not so much as to make you sloppy.


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## MattThePenguin

bostjan said:


> It's from the band's perspective, facing the audience (I did stage lights for my university's theatrical productions).
> If there's someone doing sound, I always wait quietly until they tell me to play something, specifically. If I don't know if someone's doing sound or not, I always ask. Usually it's impossible to miss the sound guy if you were there when the band before you set up, or if you are the first band, the sound guy almost always seeks you out to try to get a head start on production. That's why it's important to not show up ten seconds before you are supposed to go on.



It was one of those "there's 5 bands playing in 4 hours" kind of shows so things were pretty hectic. We went on second. If we went on first and I did that I should be exiled to Siberia

Not trying to make excuses or anything, I know what I did wrong and I owned up to it haha, but it was my first show in 8 or so months.. new lineup... 1 rehearsal.. setup cut into our set because of the 5 band situation.. all things I could normally deal with when I'm in the right mindset playing shows every week or so.

Also, I was certain it was from the band's perspective. Thank you for clarifying


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## LiveOVErdrive

Here's one from my limited gigging experience :
*
Don't bill yourself as something you're not / don't book gigs that are inappropriate for your band.*

I was in some kind of heavy fusion band led by the singer, who also had a solo acoustic act on the side. This singer booked a couple gigs as the acoustic act and then decided to bring the rest of us. So two days in a row we show up to 1. A tiny internet radio studio, and 2. A tiny coffee shop / laundromat with a full drum kit, two tiers of keyboards (mine), 1000w of bass amp, a guitarist, and a singer with a massive PA besides. It was embarrassing to say the least.

I quit the band after that second show (there were other reasons as well, but not wanting to play more shows like that was the main thing), shortly followed by the rest of the band, sans singer. Our guitarist took the lead at that point, but did the same thing. Billed us as "American Rock and Roll", and then we'd show up to wine tastings and farmers markets and play heavy fusion again. His attitude was, "it's rock and roll! Fuck the audience!". I disagreed. So I left.

I still miss it though. I haven't played out since then, and that was a few years ago. We had only one good gig and it was enough fun I'd do it all again.

This post was very cathartic.


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## lewis

bostjan said:


> As a 37 year old who's been in gigging bands since before he had his learner's permit to drive a car (15), I've seen so many bands do the whole 0-100 on an empty tank thing, and it never pans out.
> 
> Going on tour with four songs written, even with a nebulous list of other song ideas to write sometime in between, is just silly. But a lot of bands do this. Pretty much every band I've ever seen that tried to do this had no idea what they were getting themselves into.
> 
> I'm sure you have a ton of time invested with these guys, and yes, guitar players are a dime a dozen, but so are metalcore bands. Committing your vacation time, money, and energy to studio time and touring with a dime-a-dozen band without even a notable amount of material written would flat out be a financial mistake. I'm sure people in metalcore bands without material written will try to convince everyone otherwise, but if you have the time, you could probably track down a guitarist in his late 20's or early 30's who went through exactly what they want to put you through, who would advise against it.
> 
> When you start a band, there's no "formula," but, as a rule of thumb:
> 
> 1. Settle on personnel.
> 2. Settle on musical direction.
> 3. Settle on a name.
> 4. Write a handful of songs.
> 5. Rehearse those songs until they are tight.
> 6. Play some basement shows or local shows opening for other bands.
> 7. Make a demo.
> 8. Write more material.
> 9. Then, if you've found a satisfactory level of success after step 8, go on tour or go into the studio.
> 
> *Stuff happens, and your band might need to go back to step one at any time. If it's a major upheaval, you might have to repeat through steps 2-8 again.  That's the part I hate most about being in a band - everything is so fleeting and people are so fickle*.
> 
> Is it possible to do this entire list backwards? No, I really don't think so. Maybe you write one song, come up with a name, then find band mates, and make a demo, and then go to the studio to write and record an album, but this only happens if you are independently wealthy, and even then you have virtually zero chance of success (Corey Feldman's musical career in a nutshell).



eurgh i can relate to this annoyingly for the last 5 years


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## Lindmann

LiveOVErdrive said:


> *Don't bill yourself as something you're not / don't book gigs that are inappropriate for your band.*


Yeah. Pretty much.
I also hate to play in front of the wrong audience.

I mean...there might be the "I dont care if the audience doesn't like our music...that is their fuckin problem, not ours"-attitude that some folks believe in. But I see it completely different.
It is just discouraging when a great deal of the audience is leaving the room because they just can't relate to the kind of music you're playing.

I would happily turn down bigger shows with only a half-appropiate audience for a 10-guys-in-the-audience-show where there is at least the chance of someone in there liking it.


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## BenjaminW

Lindmann said:


> I also hate to play in front of the wrong audience.


A perfect example of this would be Van Halen playing at the Billboard Awards in 2015.


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## xAGx

Literally showing zero emotion at all. I'm not saying you have to be like Unearth and jump off your amps but for fucks sake you can crack a smile or make a funny face. I love Anthrax but holy shit John Donais has to be the most lifeless looking guitar player on the face of the earth. Literally stone faced every single show.

On the other hand there's Adam from Killswitch who is ALWAYS the funnest guy in the room.


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## lewis

xAGx said:


> Literally showing zero emotion at all. I'm not saying you have to be like Unearth and jump off your amps but for fucks sake you can crack a smile or make a funny face. I love Anthrax but holy shit John Donais has to be the most lifeless looking guitar player on the face of the earth. Literally stone faced every single show.
> 
> On the other hand there's Adam from Killswitch who is ALWAYS the funnest guy in the room.


this x100

so many local bands Ive seen where they literally act like they dont even like their own band.
So of course, how can the fans in the audience ?

screw that. I love throwing down hard but also having a laugh, moving around, singing lines to the crowd, fist bumps etc etc


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## GunpointMetal

xAGx said:


> Literally showing zero emotion at all. I'm not saying you have to be like Unearth and jump off your amps but for fucks sake you can crack a smile or make a funny face. I love Anthrax but holy shit John Donais has to be the most lifeless looking guitar player on the face of the earth. Literally stone faced every single show.
> 
> On the other hand there's Adam from Killswitch who is ALWAYS the funnest guy in the room.


I love an energetic stage show. TDEP is probably my favorite live band ever, but I won't go see KSE anymore because Adam D ruins it for me. His shenanigans are the about the equivalent of playing to the wrong crowd, but reversed. More annoying than fun for me, anyways.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

Don't drink booze if you know you're gonna end up bloody on stage..it keeps you from bleeding heavy.

Also make sure you're up to date on your tetanus shots


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## 777timesgod

Do not tear the entire toilet from the wall after the gig. The club was packed and after the damages that had to be paid we made 0$. Generally, do not allow your bandmates to mess up the place that you play in...


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## guitaardvark

LiveOVErdrive said:


> Here's one from my limited gigging experience :
> *
> Don't bill yourself as something you're not / don't book gigs that are inappropriate for your band.*
> 
> I was in some kind of heavy fusion band led by the singer, who also had a solo acoustic act on the side. This singer booked a couple gigs as the acoustic act and then decided to bring the rest of us. So two days in a row we show up to 1. A tiny internet radio studio, and 2. A tiny coffee shop / laundromat with a full drum kit, two tiers of keyboards (mine), 1000w of bass amp, a guitarist, and a singer with a massive PA besides. It was embarrassing to say the least.
> 
> I quit the band after that second show (there were other reasons as well, but not wanting to play more shows like that was the main thing), shortly followed by the rest of the band, sans singer. Our guitarist took the lead at that point, but did the same thing. Billed us as "American Rock and Roll", and then we'd show up to wine tastings and farmers markets and play heavy fusion again. His attitude was, "it's rock and roll! Fuck the audience!". I disagreed. So I left.
> 
> I still miss it though. I haven't played out since then, and that was a few years ago. We had only one good gig and it was enough fun I'd do it all again.
> 
> This post was very cathartic.



Had a similar thing happen to me and I've never really shared it. My old band got progressively heavier and more technical as we went on. We started out as a pop-rock band and the last song we released was almost straight up djent. So for some reason, the singer booked a gig at a local library's 50th anniversary celebration promising the pop-rock sound. Easily one of the most humiliating half hours of my life.


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## TedEH

Or you could be one of those bands that likes to really lean into the "we're the heaviest thing here, and it'll be fun giving the audience more than they bargained for" kind of thing.


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