# Tell me about the Lace Drop N' Gain



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 3, 2016)

So, I'm a huge, huge fan of the EMG 81. It's my favorite high-gain bridge pickup. Both of my main guitars have them, and nothing will ever replace it as my main metal sound.

But, I have a Jackson Kelly on the way. It's stock with... Honestly, I don't know.  I thought they came stock with a JB/'59 set, but this guitar didn't seem to have Duncans. But either way, I would have swapped the pickups for EMGs. 

But honestly, I've been really checking out the Drop n' Gain pickups on-and-off for the passed few years. I heard a lot of good things about it. It's supposed to be a passive pickup that's as tight as the 81. 

Given I'm lazy as .... and don't want to rip out everything in the guitar in order to put an EMG set, I'm wondering how close the Drop N' Gain gets to the EMG 81 sound? I've tried several pickups I've heard get close to the EMG 81 (DiMarzio D-Activator, Bill Lawrence L500XL, Entwistle HDN) and they just aren't there. Maybe the Drop N' Gain is a different story?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 4, 2016)

No one's tried them?


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## Cam75 (Sep 4, 2016)

I have a set of the Bill Kelliher Dissonant Agressors in my ESP LTD Viper. I believe I read they were based off the drop and gain. 

The Bridge is super tight, and very well balanced, not too much bass,mids or treble, takes eq very well. great note articulation.

The neck is a little bassy for my taste, but in the mix may be ok. Im not in a band, so cant verify.

Both, fro being to "hot", clean up very nice


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## MetalThrasher (Sep 4, 2016)

Try a X2N can't hurt.


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## akinari (Sep 4, 2016)

I'm interested to hear what people think of these too. I have a D-Activator neck in the bridge of one of my guitars that has a bit of that active feel to it, but the overall voicing is way different than an 81.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 4, 2016)

MetalThrasher said:


> Try a X2N can't hurt.



Was considering it. It has output and brightness, but I doubt it'll have the tight low end of an 81.



Cam75 said:


> I have a set of the Bill Kelliher Dissonant Agressors in my ESP LTD Viper. I believe I read they were based off the drop and gain.
> 
> The Bridge is super tight, and very well balanced, not too much bass,mids or treble, takes eq very well. great note articulation.
> 
> ...



You sure? I thought Bill was a huge fan of the Nitro Hemi pickups. He used them when he joined Lace. 



akinari said:


> I'm interested to hear what people think of these too. I have a D-Activator neck in the bridge of one of my guitars that has a bit of that active feel to it, but the overall voicing is way different than an 81.



Yeah, when I tried the DA's, they were bright as ...., but weren't tight as the 81, nor did they have the midrange crunch.


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## Cam75 (Sep 4, 2016)

I wasnt positive, maybe it was the Nitros the kellihers were based off. Either way, I do enjoy them. I swapped teh EMG 81/85 that was there, and am much happier.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 4, 2016)

People seem to love swapping out their EMGs, but man, I just can't find anything that works better than the 81 in the bridge and the 60 in the neck for my tastes. 

Which is why I'm hoping the Drop n' Gain accurately mimics that. Or can retain that extreme tightness.


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## jc986 (Sep 4, 2016)

I'll always have at least one guitar with the 81/60 combo. If that's the sound you want you're not likely going to find it in anything else.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 4, 2016)

Yeah, I know. I'm too damn lazy to swap out all the .... in the Kelly for an EMG set, though. 

Well, it's just a single volume knob. Might just do it eventually because of that.


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## rewihendrix (Sep 5, 2016)

I'm interested in these too. Go on, be a guinea pig for us!


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 5, 2016)

Cam75 said:


> I wasnt positive, maybe it was the Nitros the kellihers were based off. Either way, I do enjoy them. I swapped teh EMG 81/85 that was there, and am much happier.



I just watched an interview with bill and he said that it was the nitros/nitro hemis that the Dissonant aggressors are based off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIYR71rKlSE


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## akinari (Sep 5, 2016)

Cmon somebody, drop a good word for us. I'm equally interested in a comparison. Would it really kill Lace and other companies to provide DIs? It's 2016 y'all, get with it!


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## jsmalleus (Sep 8, 2016)

I've actually got a set in a guitar I left over at my bassist's place for when we did practices there. Thing is I used it like twice there and then we didn't practice over there for like a year and a half lol. When I had him bring the guitar back over a few months ago it was in dire need of a new set of strings & a little tune-up and I just haven't gotten around to it yet. I remember liking them though. From what I recall they sounded nice & thick without losing that tightness & getting all wooly, which makes me kinda think it's probably gonna be closer to the 85 than a 81, but that guitar is also mahogany body/neck with rosewood fingerboard, so most things are going to thicken up a bit in there. On top of that I haven't heard them in friggin forever. We have a show tonight and then another Saturday, but I'll try to squeeze it in some time with it this weekend and check back in with some fresh impressions.


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## coffeeflush (Sep 8, 2016)

I used them in a friends guitar, while they are nearly as tight as the 81, they don't have the same level of compression the EMG 81 does. 
You could also try the dimarzio evolution depending on what you tune to.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 8, 2016)

I'm gonna keep my guitar in Eb/D#. I was thinking about the Evos, but are they really like EMGs? I bought into the hype with the d-Activators, and I was sorely disappointed. 

And if the Drop n Gains are like the 85 rather than the 81, then eeeeh. Not a huge fan of the 81 in the bridge.


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## nistley (Sep 9, 2016)

Nothing is like EMG81, or rather, nothing 'passive' can sound like 'active' because of whatever the circuit does. You can mess with settings to get similar effects, compression, or EQ, but not some of the dynamic response, but straight up, it sounds to me like asking for an apple that's most like an orange, and then being disappointed that it's not a citrus.


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## exo (Sep 11, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Was considering it. It has output and brightness, but I doubt it'll have the tight low end of an 81.




Have these in an '88 Explorer. To my ears, it's a biting and beastly sounding PU.

I don't think they exactly replicate all the characteristics of an EMG 81, though it's in the same overall ballpark. they're DEFINITELY tighter than say a JB or SD Distortion. They're also not "modern" high gain PU in their voicing, the x2n first appeared in the late 70's/early 80's. 

And they are HOT. INSANE gain amounts. The rep on that front is not a joke or exaggeration. some folks actually find it to be TOO hot on modern high gain amps, because they were designed to beat the crap out of the front end of something like a JCM800. In my case, it's sorta "good luck getting a clean tone", though coil splitting them apparently helps in that regard. I also found that backing them off the strings farther than you'd normally be inclined to benefits them. Sorta like the whole "EQ with your ears, not your eyes" cliche, but with a guitar pickup instead of amp knobs 

Everyone and their brother seems to know that these were Chuck Schuldiner's preferred pickup, but Michael Romeo of Symphony X actually went AWAY from EMG 81 to an X2n in the bridge around a decade ago......


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2016)

I've been thinking more about the X2N actually. I'm sure it'll get that bridge pickup tone I want, but I wonder if I can find a pickup that gets me that jangly clean tone an EMG 60 in the neck would give me?

EDIT: Actually just checked out the video... Really liked the X2N compared to the others. The Evo was a close second. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTe__1gecII

And then I'm thinking about the Super 3... Supposed to be a thicker pickup, but still bright with a tight low end. I loved the Super Distortion, but I wasn't a fan of it's muddy low end.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 12, 2016)

Kinda gonna bump this so I don't have to make a new thread.

So, Drop N Gain, Super 3, and the X2N are what I'm thinking about going with.

That's if I don't change my mind and go with a used EMG set. 

So, anyone wanna tell me about them? Pros and cons? Seeing lots of mixed things about the X2N, and that it sounds amazing in some guitars and ....ty in others.


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## MetalThrasher (Sep 12, 2016)

I would just get the xn2 to try if you don't like it you can send it back to dimarizo and try the super 3.


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## exo (Sep 12, 2016)

Wish I had some info on the other two pickups to give, man. I do just absolutely LOVE what the x2n does in my Explorer. I BELEIVE mine is alder body/maple neck, and an owner prior to when I got it 20 years ago had it routed for a trem, has some Edge variant on it, but I have had that blocked the entire time I've had it. Just listing those details because they're all thing that have some effect on tone.......


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## akinari (Sep 13, 2016)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/showthread.php?t=160683

Some DIs of the X2N in this thread.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 13, 2016)

Checking that now, the X2N definitely doesn't have the bite of the EMG 81 when I compare the two. If anything it reminds me of the L500XL I have, but with a less bright sound.


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## jsmalleus (Sep 13, 2016)

Gonna try to squeeze in a badly needed string change on the guitar with the drop n gains and get a pair of quick DI's from it and an 81 on Wednesday.

Sorry it's taking so long, I was gunning to do it Friday night/Saturday morning but then we learned that there was a festival called "in the streets" coinciding with our gig Saturday where they close down the street the venue is on and a bunch of side streets while swarms of people descend upon downtown. They had us locals load in last minute on Friday night instead & then I left earlier than originally planned Saturday to be ready to help Scar Symmetry and the other touring bands unload their buses/trailers since we didn't know how close they'd be able to get them to the venue.

I'm heading from straight from work to see Devin Townsend & BTBAM tonight, but tomorrow I'm gonna try like heck to get it done & shoot the link(s) over.


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## purpledc (Sep 13, 2016)

I had a few sets of lace drop and gains. I thought they were fantastic. Though i did notice i like the ones with the plastic emg style covers over metal covers. Very tight and crunchy pickups. Hardly any noise as well. My only complaint is that thhe lead wires were extremely thin making soldering without a meltdown rather hard. Great pickups though.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 13, 2016)

How did you feel they compare to EMGs? 

Also, just curious, but does anyone have any DIs for the Super 3 and Evo?


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## jsmalleus (Sep 14, 2016)

Here are a pair of quick DI's of the Drop n Gain and an EMG 81. The DnG guitar has a mahogany neck & body, I don't have any all mahogany guitars with actives on hand though so the EMG 81 guitar has a maple neck and basswood body. It's not the most accurate comparison, but if you keep the wood types in mind for what you're hearing from each (the mahogany guitar is a bit fatter and boomier) you can hear the similarities in the underlying tones. I just took a run at the same two riffs on each real quick without monitoring or setting up the metronome so it's sloppy too haha, but hopefully they're somewhat helpful.

Drop n Gain: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6i7dns5hxcsh3y9/DnG DI - DnG.wav?dl=0

EMG 81: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rg09gj2m3e4691o/DnG DI - EMG 81.wav?dl=0


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 14, 2016)

Definitely sounds like the D&G has more low mids in the sound and a bit more smoothness. Doesn't have as much top end and midrange crunch as the 81 as well. So, yeah, if anything, you convinced me the D&G is a no-go.  MIGHT be because of the mahogany body, but honestly in that clip the EMG 81 sound is _there_.

So, yeah, definitely gonna just get the 81/60 set. That, or check out more about the Evo.


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## jsmalleus (Sep 14, 2016)

Yeah, even if I put em in the same guitar I doubt it would have that bite that the 81 has. Has a little bit of the same character, but the Drop n Gain is probably more on par with the HZs, maybe a little thicker judging by the set I have anyways. I haven't tried an evo, so I'm not sure how that would stack up.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 15, 2016)

I actually cazn hear that HZ vibe, I had a set of H4s, and I found they were terrible.  They don't sound AS bad here, but I can hear that low-mid focus. 

But yeah, you definitely convinced me to get the EMG set, unless I get a really good deal on an Evo.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 26, 2016)

Bump. I ended up getting the Evo.

And yeah, holy .... everyone lied to me.  It has some brightness, but I can barely notice it. And the low end is really, really soft. Like, the stock bridge pickup was tighter.

I tried messing with it for a day or two, but I gave up. I pulled it out and put in my Bill Lawrence L500XL. Much, much closer to what I was looking for. 

With that said, though, I love the Humbucker from Hell I also got. Sounds a lot like the EMG 60, so at least that was right.


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## marcwormjim (Sep 26, 2016)

Mini rant:

It's not that everyone lied to you - People lie to _themselves_ when recommending pickups. How the hell would they know what you're going to hear? They don't know what pick you're using, where or how hard you're picking, on what gauge strings, how close the pickup is to the strings, or how the knobs are set on each piece of gear in the signal path.

It's best to pick the brains of those making the pickups, and not a bunch of people more eager to hype how good they think a recently-popular artist's signature pickups makes _them_ sound a month into owning them than they are to give you *objective* descriptions. Guitar players on the internet are swine, lacking credibility - They're going to tell you *exactly* what you need to buy to sound as good as they're convinced they do, but without offering even one pertinent recording of themselves. The priority is to spread the hyperbolic gospel they've written about themselves, in their holy quest for farty djent tone: "IM USING THEM AND, MAN, YOU CANT GO WRONG WITH THESE. THESE PUPS DJENT HARD, BUT TRUST ME - THEYRE THE MOST VERSATILE IVE HEARD; AND I CAN GET THEM TO PLAY ANY STYLE I PERSONALLY DONT! JUST MAKE SURE YOUR MIDS ARE ON ZERO. THEYRE $300, BUT WORTH EVERY PENNY - IN FACT, I'M SELLING THEM IN THE CLASSIFIEDS FOR A PRETTY GOOD DEAL!"

Generally speaking, anyway. Some dudes are mindful enough to include a "YMMV."


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## nistley (Sep 27, 2016)

mini anti-rant:

I've read many advice threads on this forum, and by looking at what is common between various recommendations, I informed my buying choices and have enjoyed the results very much. thanks dudes.

Your Milage Will Always Vary, for the trite


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## chassless (Sep 27, 2016)

I think the best way to gauge pickup recommendations is when the person who recommends is able to compare them to a different known model they have also tried, preferably in the same guitar and settings. That helps putting subjective notions into more general perspectives.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 27, 2016)

Well, I think at this rate, I'm just gonna stick with 2 pickups I know I love; The L500 series for passive, and the 81/60 for active.


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## purpledc (Sep 27, 2016)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> How did you feel they compare to EMGs?
> 
> Also, just curious, but does anyone have any DIs for the Super 3 and Evo?



Imh the drop and gains lack the grainy harshness of say an 81. They are rounder and fuller but still very defined. I loved them in drop c tuning but I wasnt much of a fan in standard. I also dont know if they have changed thwm i. Any way but I didnt care for the leads you have to solder. They were very thin and delicate. But if you wanted to get your killswich on I really think they excel.


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