# Fortin 33 vs Grind.... Interesting results...



## LCW (Feb 23, 2019)

Not sure how well the link will work to start at a specific timestamp... if not jump to 11:25...


----------



## oneblackened (Feb 23, 2019)

Interesting. It also explains why they thin out ("tighten") amps so much. If you're dumping everything sub-300Hz of course it's going to be tighter...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 23, 2019)

oneblackened said:


> Interesting. It also explains why they thin out ("tighten") amps so much. If you're dumping everything sub-300Hz of course it's going to be tighter...



Yeah, people aren't kidding when they call it a glorified EQ.  On top of that, it bumps up the higher-register EQs up a few dB. So not only is it cutting out the low end, it's attenuating the high end. It's why it works so perfectly with dark, muddy amps like Rectos and Oranges. Even Marshalls seem to respond well because... fuck, what pedal DOESN'T a JMP/JCM like?

But yeah, the Grind is pretty much a specialty pedal. If you use an already bright and tight amp, you're in for a bad time. It's probably why I've seen a lot of people call it a shitty pedal. Because you're sticking it in front of amps like a 6505+, 5153, VHT/Fryette, Mesa Mark series, etc


----------



## mnemonic (Feb 23, 2019)

Yeah the lack of tweakability does limit its uses. As a metal boost it’s great though. Just a glorified eq, yes, not a new idea either as people have been boosting amps with eq curves since at least the 80’s, but I don’t see anyone else making a pedal that simply gives you a tight metal eq curve. 

I’ve been using my tc electronic integrated preamp in front of all my amps for a long time, and it’s my favorite boost I’ve ever used. It just does the same thing, big bass cut and big volume boost, though I can at least adjust how much bass I want cut.


----------



## Krucifixtion (Feb 23, 2019)

I have a Fortin Grind, T.C. Electronic Intergrated Pre, Maxon OD808, and Retro-Sonic 808. The Grind is a great pedal, but it does take away quite a lot of low end for certain applications. It can work with already tight amps, but you have to adjust accordingly. I have an ENGL Invader which can be tight without boost. I generally only use the Grind for 7 or 8 string as it works real nice on low tuned stuff. For 6 string it depends. Sometimes I use it, but if I am playing in a band without a bassist I tend to stick to a regular OD or boost if playing 6 string. If I turn up my bass a bit more to make it more muddy the Grind works well. However, yes it does thin out an already real tight amp too much. Unfortunately I haven't had enough time to use the TC Integrated Pre yet. My friend has a 33 and we did an AB of Grind vs. 33. Would like to do that again with the TC as well. 

The Fortin Blade might be a better choice for more tonal options as you can adjust low and high unlike Grind and 33.


----------



## mnemonic (Feb 23, 2019)

I wonder if the blade is just a tc pre clone, the description shows it has bass, treble, and volume controls, and is just a clean boost, all same as the tc pre.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 23, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> I wonder if the blade is just a tc pre clone, the description shows it has bass, treble, and volume controls, and is just a clean boost, all same as the tc pre.



That's exactly what I was wondering. Is the Blade an OD or a clean boost?


----------



## mnemonic (Feb 23, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That's exactly what I was wondering. Is the Blade an OD or a clean boost?



No clipping from what I guess, based on the description. 



> A custom EQ curve clean boost, the BLADE features added control with treble (CUT) and bass (DEEP) frequencies , whilst overall boost is controlled by (SAW).


----------



## gunch (Feb 23, 2019)

EQ is The Game and I’m glad I didn’t have to spend any money to learn this

Also Dime was right and also he invented djent


----------



## Bearitone (Feb 23, 2019)

gunch said:


> EQ is The Game and I’m glad I didn’t have to spend any money to learn this
> 
> Also Dime was right and also he invented djent



What was he right about?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 23, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> What was he right about?



I'm guessing the fact he used EQs to boost his amp vs OD pedals.


----------



## gunch (Feb 23, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> What was he right about?



EVERYTHING

1. Solid state is dope as shit 
2. input EQ and effects loop EQ


----------



## Cynicanal (Feb 23, 2019)

So the moral of this story is just get an MXR EQ, or a Boss GE7 or PQ4.


----------



## Meeotch (Feb 23, 2019)

Today for the first time (finally), I put my MXR 10-band up front, and my Empress ParaEQ in the loop. The level of tweakability is insane. It's like instant access to loads of pickups and speaker cabs!


----------



## Andromalia (Feb 24, 2019)

Meeotch said:


> Today for the first time (finally), I put my MXR 10-band up front, and my Empress ParaEQ in the loop. The level of tweakability is insane. It's like instant access to loads of pickups and speaker cabs!


Main issue I have with these kind of setups is that if a butterfly breathes on one of your knobs the sound gets completely different. It's like trying to dial in a metal zone, but worse.


----------



## KailM (Feb 24, 2019)

Meeotch said:


> Today for the first time (finally), I put my MXR 10-band up front, and my Empress ParaEQ in the loop. The level of tweakability is insane. It's like instant access to loads of pickups and speaker cabs!



This. I have two MXR 10-bands, and have done that a few times. It's the best tone I've ever gotten. Unfortunately one of my MXRs is acting up, adding lots of popping sounds and static, so I'm not using it at the moment. 

I find that the way to approach it is to dial-in your tone as perfectly as you can without using the EQ pedal up front of the amp yet. When you've got your tone perfect for your ears, activate the up-front EQ with a flat curve. Go through each slider, boosting and cutting by small amounts only, listening for changes. You'll end up with a few minor tweaks to your tone that will end up being even better yet. It can really help you soften characteristics about your pickups that are too much, or add a little support in areas that they're lacking.


----------



## KailM (Feb 24, 2019)

oneblackened said:


> Interesting. It also explains why they thin out ("tighten") amps so much. If you're dumping everything sub-300Hz of course it's going to be tighter...





I have a feeling I'd hate these two pedals.


----------



## NorCal_Val (Feb 24, 2019)

I have a 33; I love what it does to the Triple Rectifier.(2 ch. version) However, I found it to not work, for my ears, with the Satan. The Satan just doesn’t need that type of OD/EQ out front.
Interestingly enough, the Satan works with the Precision Drive out front.
Go figure.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 24, 2019)

NorCal_Val said:


> I have a 33; I love what it does to the Triple Rectifier.(2 ch. version) However, I found it to not work, for my ears, with the Satan. The Satan just doesn’t need that type of OD/EQ out front.
> Interestingly enough, the Satan works with the Precision Drive out front.
> Go figure.



Like I said earlier; the Grind is a really specialized pedal. It's mostly for amps that NEED to be tightened. Super saturated, muddy amps. Doesn't work with amps that are already dry and tight like the Satan unless you really fuck with the pre-EQ controls. 

And I've noticed TS-style pedals tend to work in front of tight amps as well. In front of a muddy amp, they add tightness. In front of a dry amp, they add saturation.


----------



## LCW (Feb 24, 2019)

NorCal_Val said:


> I have a 33; I love what it does to the Triple Rectifier.(2 ch. version) However, I found it to not work, for my ears, with the Satan. The Satan just doesn’t need that type of OD/EQ out front.
> Interestingly enough, the Satan works with the Precision Drive out front.
> Go figure.



Check out Ola's Satan vid... he talks about how he runs a 33 with the Satan to make it sound good... go to around 07:50... He dials Girth to max and Grind to min...


----------



## wakjob (Feb 24, 2019)

Well that's interesting...

When I had an Axe Fx I'd use an EQ before the clipping stages and eliminate everything below 330hZ.

I was doing this with modded OD pedals also.
I'd calculate the correct R/C equation for an op-amp to get me near 300hZ.

I might like a 33/Grind more than I thought now.

It also might be the perfect tightening boost for a stock 5e3 Tweed Deluxe, or any other old tube amp that primarily used big fat .1uF coupling caps and wimpy filtering.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 24, 2019)

wakjob said:


> Well that's interesting...
> 
> When I had an Axe Fx I'd use an EQ before the clipping stages and eliminate everything below 330hZ.
> 
> ...



Shit, someone needs to do that. Take an old cranked tweed or blackface, crank it, and boost it with a Grind. 

Someone get Mike Ness on the phone.


----------



## NorCal_Val (Feb 24, 2019)

LCW said:


> Check out Ola's Satan vid... he talks about how he runs a 33 with the Satan to make it sound good... go to around 07:50... He dials Girth to max and Grind to min...




I’ve seen that vid a few times.
Like I said, to my ears the Satan doesn’t need it. It already has a tight sound. Especially after I put the KT88s back in the power amp section.


----------



## sirbuh (Feb 24, 2019)

gunch said:


> EVERYTHING
> 
> 1. Solid state is dope as shit
> 2. input EQ and effects loop EQ




I think Eddie ran (still?) a 2 eq pedal setup in the 90s (?).


----------



## wakjob (Feb 24, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Shit, someone needs to do that. Take an old cranked tweed or blackface, crank it, and boost it with a Grind.
> 
> Someone get Mike Ness on the phone.



I know...but daaaaaaaammmm they are friggin' pricey.


----------



## Flappydoodle (Feb 25, 2019)

So it basically just guts your guitar tone. And it's also hilarious that the two pedals are identical in construction and tone. The more I learn about Fortin, the more "shady" they seem in some ways. Some of the Marshall mods just being very standard cheap mods, but slap the Fortin logo on it and charge $4000. And the Nameless suite being "nameless" because of cloning the Meshuggah amp but not reaching a deal with the band. And now obviously the Grind being an exact copy of the 33, which again was supposed to be a limited thing.

Anyway, this pedal only makes sense if you really need tight stuff on an 8 string, and you hopefully have a bassist to produce some low end. Outside of that, I just don't see the point. All of the 6 string examples sounded like utter shit, which isn't surprising if you cut 12dB of everything below 300hz LOL


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 25, 2019)

Flappydoodle said:


> And now obviously the Grind being an exact copy of the 33, which again was supposed to be a limited thing.



Other way around. Grind came first, 33 came second.


----------



## Bearitone (Feb 25, 2019)

Off topic. Anyone try a Grind into VH-140c or VHD preamp?


----------



## Flappydoodle (Feb 25, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Other way around. Grind came first, 33 came second.



Ah ok, I stand corrected.


----------



## NorCal_Val (Feb 26, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Shit, someone needs to do that. Take an old cranked tweed or blackface, crank it, and boost it with a Grind.
> 
> Someone get Mike Ness on the phone.



Hmmmm...
might try the 33 with a fully cranked Super Reverb.


----------



## USMarine75 (Feb 26, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like I said earlier; the Grind is a really specialized pedal. It's mostly for amps that NEED to be tightened. Super saturated, muddy amps. Doesn't work with amps that are already dry and tight like the Satan unless you really fuck with the pre-EQ controls.
> 
> And I've noticed TS-style pedals tend to work in front of tight amps as well. In front of a muddy amp, they add tightness. In front of a dry amp, they add saturation.



Anyone compare these with the Fortin Blade?


----------



## Necky379 (Feb 26, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Off topic. Anyone try a Grind into VH-140c or VHD preamp?



I was thinking the same thing while reading this thread. I don’t have a Grind or a 33 but I have an Airsis Liverkick which is a copy of the TC Integrated Preamp. The Grind and the 33 are one knob versions of that correct? What settings on the TC pedal would approximate the Grind/33? Low all the way down, high all the way up? I don’t think I’d want that sound but could try it with my Spirytus real quick.


----------



## mnemonic (Feb 26, 2019)

I haven’t seen a schematic for a 33 or grind yet so I can’t say if it’s just a tc pre clone with fixed settings, or something else. But I wouldn’t be surprised. As great as Mike is at marketing, I’m not sure he’s had an original thought when it comes to circuit design, everything I’ve seen so far seems to be a straight clone of something existing (though to be fair, existing things that aren’t otherwise in production). 

Given the eq plots of the 33/Grind, I would guess equivalent settings on the tc pre would be bass at 0 (or close to 0) and treble not far from noon. 

Treble control on the tc pre is a baxandall shelving filter at 10khz and boosts a ton of high-highs, which I don’t see in those plots. 

All I can say for sure is my tc pre and clones can get that super tight and clean sound pretty easily, and can also be less tight if desired, by just turning the bass up from zero.


----------



## Lozek (Feb 26, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> As great as Mike is at marketing.......



He doesn't do his own marketing anymore, he employed Engage 757 for that. Not even joking.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 26, 2019)

Lozek said:


> He doesn't do his own marketing anymore, he employed Engage 757 for that. Not even joking.



Had to unfollow the Fortin company FB page because of that. It got so fucking obnoxious.


----------



## Tisca (Feb 26, 2019)

I don't know what or who Engage 757 (neither does Google) is but I also had to unfollow Fortin.


----------



## LCW (Feb 26, 2019)

Tisca said:


> I don't know what or who Engage 757 (neither does Google) is but I also had to unfollow Fortin.



Is it Zach Khoury? (sp?)


----------



## jc986 (Feb 26, 2019)

LCW said:


> Is it Zach Khoury? (sp?)


Yep


----------



## Shask (Feb 26, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> I haven’t seen a schematic for a 33 or grind yet so I can’t say if it’s just a tc pre clone with fixed settings, or something else. But I wouldn’t be surprised. As great as Mike is at marketing, I’m not sure he’s had an original thought when it comes to circuit design, everything I’ve seen so far seems to be a straight clone of something existing (though to be fair, existing things that aren’t otherwise in production).
> 
> Given the eq plots of the 33/Grind, I would guess equivalent settings on the tc pre would be bass at 0 (or close to 0) and treble not far from noon.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I built a clone also, and I would say the best settings are bass at 0 (7 oclock) to about 9 oclock for that tight sound (depending on how much bass pickups have). Treble about 1 oclock. Any more treble that that gets very scratchy and fizzy sounding. Volume about 2-3 oclock. I was actually playing with the the other day with my JCA100HDM.


----------



## mnemonic (Feb 26, 2019)

Shask said:


> Yeah, I built a clone also, and I would say the best settings are bass at 0 (7 oclock) to about 9 oclock for that tight sound (depending on how much bass pickups have). Treble about 1 oclock. Any more treble that that gets very scratchy and fizzy sounding. Volume about 2-3 oclock. I was actually playing with the the other day with my JCA100HDM.



Yeah depending on the amp, my settings are pretty similar.


----------



## Necky379 (Feb 26, 2019)

Same experience with it here. I’d be curious to know which frequencies those two knobs are affecting. The thing also seems to have a ton of gain available (yeah necky...that’s why they call it a preamp), a trick I picked up from LWA Joe is to use it to turn amp in the box pedals into preamp pedals. Simple and obvious concept I had just never thought of before, made me wish I hadn’t sold my MXR 5150 pedal.
If the Fortin pedals are just one knob TC copies then the hype just seems silly. Why would anyone want to pay more for less options, there’s other cheaper 3 knob TC clones out there and rullywow ChuggaPre board based clones. The Liverkick I have uses the ChuggaPre board.


----------



## Shask (Feb 26, 2019)

Necky379 said:


> Same experience with it here. I’d be curious to know which frequencies those two knobs are affecting. The thing also seems to have a ton of gain available (yeah necky...that’s why they call it a preamp), a trick I picked up from LWA Joe is to use it to turn amp in the box pedals into preamp pedals. Simple and obvious concept I had just never thought of before, made me wish I hadn’t sold my MXR 5150 pedal.
> If the Fortin pedals are just one knob TC copies then the hype just seems silly. Why would anyone want to pay more for less options, there’s other cheaper 3 knob TC clones out there and rullywow ChuggaPre board based clones. The Liverkick I have uses the ChuggaPre board.


That is an interesting idea I haven't thought of. Use it after other distortion pedals to give them volume, but also be used as "resonance and presence" controls, like the Amptweaker Depthfinder. I wonder how well that would work.....


----------



## Necky379 (Feb 26, 2019)

Exactly, it works really well in fact. I’ve got a cheap Dr. Boogie or Mr. Boogie, whatever it’s called, from Little Bear and before I had my current practice setup I was going Little Bear MB2->Liverkick->G12T-75 loaded 1x12. Later I added a power amp pedal, great sounding little corner of the bedroom setup.


----------



## BIGRIGG (Mar 1, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> Anyone compare these with the Fortin Blade?


I have both the grind and now the new blade. They are different for sure. Grind is just clean mid boost with low end dropped off as discussed. Works great for certain situations and sort of one trick pony thing.
The blade is clean boost "saw" with no eq curve. The cut and deep offer treble and bass boost or cut. Its kind of like a tubescreamer without the drive knob and more tweakable tone knob. The blade has a bit more noise than the grind. You can get very close to the grind with the blade settings of no deep and lots of cut and high saw. Its still not the same as the grind. The grind gives more of that metallic, chunk, grind sound. I find the blade lends itself to more scenarios, but still can't quite do the grind as well. Blade is probably great for standard tuning and all amps along with a good lead boost. Grind seems more for down tuned stuff, flubby amps and super tight chugging rhythms.
Point is they are NOT the same for sure. Hope this was helpful.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 1, 2019)

Was actually thinking about getting the Blade because I thought it would be the Grind just with a tweakable EQ. Guess not.


----------



## wakjob (Mar 1, 2019)

Not trying to start crap here or anything but, I'm seeing some mild Mike Fortin bashing.

Let's be clear, almost all the classic Marshall mods have been done to death. But what sets guys like Mike Fortin, Dave Friedman, Steve Fryette, Mike Soldano, Reinhold Bogner, Jose Arrendondo ect.. apart from each other is their own personal signature flavor of modded Marshall.

And when it comes to playing metal guitar...
Mike Fortin and I are on the same playing field.


----------



## FourT6and2 (Mar 2, 2019)

wakjob said:


> But what sets guys like Mike Fortin, Dave Friedman, Steve Fryette, Mike Soldano, Reinhold Bogner, Jose Arrendondo ect.. apart from each other is their own personal signature flavor of modded Marshall.



Can you please point out in each of these schematics what represents a personal signature flavor? Can you tell what amps they are and who built them?


----------



## Bentaycanada (Mar 2, 2019)

I've picked up a Boss GE-7 to try out a Grind style clean boost. Does anyone know what would be the recommended settings for the GE-7?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 2, 2019)

Bentaycanada said:


> I've picked up a Boss GE-7 to try out a Grind style clean boost. Does anyone know what would be the recommended settings for the GE-7?





Bentaycanada said:


> I've picked up a Boss GE-7 to try out a Grind style clean boost. Does anyone know what would be the recommended settings for the GE-7?



Check the video in the OP. He does just that around the 30 - 35 minute mark.


----------



## LCW (Mar 2, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Check the video in the OP. He does just that around the 30 - 35 minute mark.



It will work fairly well, just super noisy. Might be better with the MXR V.2 silver 10 band EQ.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 2, 2019)

LCW said:


> It will work fairly well, just super noisy. Might be better with the MXR V.2 silver 10 band EQ.



Always heard the Boss EQs tend to be noisy. 

I got curious and tried to emulate it with my Helix. No dice so far. Might keep fucking with it.


----------



## jc986 (Mar 2, 2019)

I tried the settings of the GE-7 from that video using my Danelectro Fish & Chips (which is way quieter than the GE-7 by the way). Thought it sounded terrible with my 6505. I’ve never played a grind, and that type of EQ curve really wasn’t designed for an amp like the 6505 anyway.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 2, 2019)

jc986 said:


> I tried the settings of the GE-7 from that video using my Danelectro Fish & Chips (which is way quieter than the GE-7 by the way). Thought it sounded terrible with my 6505. I’ve never played a grind, and that type of EQ curve really wasn’t designed for an amp like the 6505 anyway.



I can see it being too much for anything above drop C. But I can see it being useful for 7 or 8 strings on a 5150.


----------



## Bentaycanada (Mar 2, 2019)

I tried it with the GE-7 today and sound wise I got decent results that sounded like pretty close to my old Grind. BUT the noise is bad. It’s true about the GE-7, very noisy.


----------



## Necky379 (Mar 3, 2019)

Wouldn’t the Behringer PB-100 do the same thing too? For 30$.


----------



## wakjob (Mar 3, 2019)

Good lord...

A Fortin 33 pedal just sold on ebay for $473.89 usd with 23 bids.


----------



## LCW (Mar 3, 2019)

wakjob said:


> Good lord...
> 
> A Fortin 33 pedal just sold on ebay for $473.89 usd with 23 bids.



Lol that’s one of the “cheaper” ones... although I did see one for 400 on Reverb yesterday. Already gone. The ones for 500 or more seem to linger and don’t sell...


----------



## technomancer (Mar 3, 2019)

wakjob said:


> Good lord...
> 
> A Fortin 33 pedal just sold on ebay for $473.89 usd with 23 bids.



I should really dust mine off and list it...


----------



## prlgmnr (Mar 3, 2019)

technomancer said:


> I should really dust mine off and list it...


woah woah don't waste that authentic dust


----------



## Bentaycanada (Mar 3, 2019)

wakjob said:


> Good lord...
> 
> A Fortin 33 pedal just sold on ebay for $473.89 usd with 23 bids.



I sold mine last summer for $500. It's a great pedal, but the Grind is just as good. I'm going to try the GE-7 again tonight, and see how close I get it.


----------



## technomancer (Mar 3, 2019)

Bentaycanada said:


> I sold mine last summer for $500. It's a great pedal, but the Grind is just as good. I'm going to try the GE-7 again tonight, and see how close I get it.



I prefer the 33 to the Grind, but the TC Pre clone I build can sound exactly like the 33 with just a hair less boost (probably related to the setting of the internal charge pump). That's from running both side by side unto a Multi-watt Dual Rectifier.


----------



## Bearitone (Mar 3, 2019)

technomancer said:


> I prefer the 33 to the Grind, but the TC Pre clone I build can sound exactly like the 33 with just a hair less boost (probably related to the setting of the internal charge pump). That's from running both side by side unto a Multi-watt Dual Rectifier.



Is there anyone that sells a prebuilt chugga-pre? Or some sort of clone of the TC integrated preamp?


----------



## Necky379 (Mar 3, 2019)

The Airis Liverkick used the ChuggaPre board. I mentioned the Behringer PB-100 before, I suspect it’s a clone but nobody has confirmed that yet and there isn’t a whole lot of info about them.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 3, 2019)

Necky379 said:


> The Airis Liverkick used the ChuggaPre board. I mentioned the Behringer PB-100 before, I suspect it’s a clone but nobody has confirmed that yet and there isn’t a whole lot of info about them.



It's based on the Nobels PRE-1.


----------



## mnemonic (Mar 3, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Is there anyone that sells a prebuilt chugga-pre? Or some sort of clone of the TC integrated preamp?



I don’t know of anyone making a pre-built clone, but pedalpcb sell a clone pcb that has 33v charge pump (the one on the chuggapre is I think 17 volts) 

I built one last week to replace my tagboard clone that I didn’t build a charge pump into, can confirm it sounds the same.


----------



## technomancer (Mar 3, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> I don’t know of anyone making a pre-built clone, but pedalpcb sell a clone pcb that has 33v charge pump (the one on the chuggapre is I think 17 volts)
> 
> I built one last week to replace my tagboard clone that I didn’t build a charge pump into, can confirm it sounds the same.



Hmm I missed this one, now I need to go look for it. I suspect I'll be doing a bunch of pedal builds when I finish up El Jefe as I've got a couple boards here already and have two VFE boards on order currently for the Dragon and Standout.


----------



## Shask (Mar 3, 2019)

technomancer said:


> Hmm I missed this one, now I need to go look for it. I suspect I'll be doing a bunch of pedal builds when I finish up El Jefe as I've got a couple boards here already and have two VFE boards on order currently for the Dragon and Standout.


I think it must be newer, because I used the ChuggaPre board as well since PedalPCB didn't have one.


----------



## mnemonic (Mar 3, 2019)

Yeah he’s added a ton of cool stuff lately I want to make.



technomancer said:


> Hmm I missed this one, now I need to go look for it. I suspect I'll be doing a bunch of pedal builds when I finish up El Jefe as I've got a couple boards here already and have two VFE boards on order currently for the Dragon and Standout.



I thought about getting those boards from madbean but given how fair the price of complete ones on reverb was, I just ordered a standout. Currently stuck in customs.

I’m trying to slow my roll on pedal builds since the price adds up quick. It’s the damn pots and enclosures, every time.


----------



## Shask (Mar 3, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Yeah he’s added a ton of cool stuff lately I want to make.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know he has a ton of cool ones added the past 6 months or so. I keep thinking about building more, but just kind of got out of the mood since I have SO many pedals, and not really using so many of them. Hate to spend the time building stuff that will sit on a shelf, lol.


----------



## Necky379 (Mar 3, 2019)

Bearitone said:


> Is there anyone that sells a prebuilt chugga-pre? Or some sort of clone of the TC integrated preamp?



Also Klirrton has their Lichtbringer and Lone Wolf Audio calls his version Djerkoff


----------



## technomancer (Mar 3, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Yeah he’s added a ton of cool stuff lately I want to make.
> 
> I thought about getting those boards from madbean but given how fair the price of complete ones on reverb was, I just ordered a standout. Currently stuck in customs.
> 
> I’m trying to slow my roll on pedal builds since the price adds up quick. It’s the damn pots and enclosures, every time.



Yeah I went to look for one after they sold out so went and ordered the board. You think pedal builds add up, try amps  Still a hell of a lot cheaper than buying them though...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 3, 2019)

This thread convinced me to buy a cheap as fuck Boss FA-1 clone. Supposed to be very similar.


----------



## sirbuh (Mar 3, 2019)

Necky379 said:


> Also Klirrton has their Lichtbringer and Lone Wolf Audio calls his version Djerkoff



Any feedback on the Lichtbringer ?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 3, 2019)

sirbuh said:


> Any feedback on the Lichtbringer ?



It looks like it's still in the preorder phase.


----------



## Necky379 (Mar 3, 2019)

Klirrton and LWA both have posted videos of their versions on Instagram. They sound good but as everyone knows listening to a demo on an iPhone is kind of pointless. I’ve never owned anything from Klirrton, I’ve got two LWA pedals. I’ve read some unflattering posts on here about Joe but my experiences dealing with him have always been positive and I adore the Left Hand Wrath Deluxe I have.


----------



## Flappydoodle (Mar 4, 2019)

wakjob said:


> But what sets guys like Mike Fortin, Dave Friedman, Steve Fryette, Mike Soldano, Reinhold Bogner, Jose Arrendondo ect.. apart from each other is their own personal signature flavor of modded Marshall.
> 
> And when it comes to playing metal guitar...
> Mike Fortin and I are on the same playing field.



I think what he has really excelled at is marketing, hype, and generating exclusivity.



technomancer said:


> I prefer the 33 to the Grind



Presumably you mean you prefer the design of the outer casing?

Because according to the EQ curves, and internal components, the two pedals are identical.


----------



## Bentaycanada (Mar 4, 2019)

I setup the GE-7 to the Fortin Grind style EQ curve on the video. It worked out really well, but the GE-7 is incredibly noisy. I’m going to get it modded to help with that. 

Other than that, tonally it’s pretty close. I’m impressed.


----------



## mnemonic (Mar 4, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This thread convinced me to buy a cheap as fuck Boss FA-1 clone. Supposed to be very similar.



One of the first pedals I built was the byoc FET preamp (fa1 clone, with the same original op amps) and while it’s a cool pedal and operates in a similar manner to the tc preamp, I don’t think they sound that similar. 

The fet preamp clips a lot past about 1/3rd on the volume knob and the eq controls don’t have nearly as much range. It’s a cool sounding pedal though and I love it on a clean channel. 



Flappydoodle said:


> I think what he has really excelled at is marketing, hype, and generating exclusivity.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Iirc there has been at least two versions of the Grind. Someone on the axe FX forum did an RTA plot of their Grind so they could copy it in the axe FX, and their pedal had a low pass at around about 10khz (not dissimilar to the vst version in that video). 

That might not be super noticeable though, probably more to do with noise, maybe feel.


----------



## technomancer (Mar 4, 2019)

Flappydoodle said:


> I think what he has really excelled at is marketing, hype, and generating exclusivity.



Yep. But cult marketing is their marketing guy's forte. Private facebook group, ostracize anybody with any criticism and try to paint them as haters or jealous, "exclusive" limited product runs with distinguishing features like a different color, artificial product scarcity.



Flappydoodle said:


> Presumably you mean you prefer the design of the outer casing?
> 
> Because according to the EQ curves, and internal components, the two pedals are identical.



Having A/B'ed the two side by side into the same amp the Grind cuts more low end. I haven't torn down the pedals but they definitely do not sound the same side by side 

Honestly neither is a must-have be all end all pedal for me.


----------



## Flappydoodle (Mar 4, 2019)

technomancer said:


> Having A/B'ed the two side by side into the same amp the Grind cuts more low end. I haven't torn down the pedals but they definitely do not sound the same side by side
> 
> Honestly neither is a must-have be all end all pedal for me.



Interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if there were different, silent, revisions.


----------



## BrutalRob (Mar 4, 2019)

@sirbuh i got a Lichtbringer for a month now ( mine was one of the February batch). Was talking to Carsten, the guy behind Klirrton, a lot around Christmas and early January before placing an order. A really nice and helpful guy. 

I like the Lichtbringer a lot. Though I can not comment on how it compares to any other OD pedals/ Boost besides the 808circuit which is implemented in my Purple Nightmare. 

There´s a clip on youtube comparing the Grind to the Lichtbringer on youtube.


----------



## LCW (Mar 4, 2019)

Flappydoodle said:


> Interesting. It wouldn't surprise me if there were different, silent, revisions.



There's been at least 4 distinct Grind runs... Original, White enclosure, Blackout version, latest Matte Black w/ gloss White lettering.

I have a Matte Black version, but all is says on the box is "Grind v3 - Black". Whereas the Zuul had a label showing "9.18a"


----------



## TheEscalator (May 16, 2019)

guys, you know of anyone who has taken his grind/33 apart and traced a schematic?
have heard some say it's veeery similar to the TC integrated pre...

the pepers pedals dirty tree seems to be a 33 and a TC IP in one enclosure, switching between both ist just by fixing some resistors/caps in the TCs tone stack.

and dude, if this is just another slightly modded TC pre clone sold by Mr. Fortin for horrendous money i may loose any left respect for his work.
Meshuggah amp turns out to be just another hot rodded plexi even though fortin says it's ground up his own design, the 33 is literaly the same as the grind, and both are just simplified versions of the TC IP... wtf


----------



## cardinal (May 16, 2019)

TheEscalator said:


> guys, you know of anyone who has taken his grind/33 apart and traced a schematic?
> have heard some say it's veeery similar to the TC integrated pre...
> 
> the pepers pedals dirty tree seems to be a 33 and a TC IP in one enclosure, switching between both ist just by fixing some resistors/caps in the TCs tone stack.
> ...



As long as he's actually delivering the products that he's been paid for, Fortin is doing alright in my book. The "marketing" is just what people do.


----------



## GunpointMetal (May 16, 2019)

TheEscalator said:


> guys, you know of anyone who has taken his grind/33 apart and traced a schematic?
> have heard some say it's veeery similar to the TC integrated pre...
> 
> the pepers pedals dirty tree seems to be a 33 and a TC IP in one enclosure, switching between both ist just by fixing some resistors/caps in the TCs tone stack.
> ...


Welcome to the analog guitar gear world, I guess. Pretty much everything is a modified version of something else, or a direct copy with added/subtracted features to cater to a specific sound/genre. Most of these boutique boost pedals are either a modified TS, a modified TC Pre, or a pre-set EQ with a volume boost. Most amps are just modified Fender/Marshall designs. I can't wait for digital manufacturers to add to all the "classic" stuff new ways to process a signal.


----------



## mnemonic (May 16, 2019)

Yes it’s been traced and yes it’s the tc pre op amp boost with a fixed eq (very marginally different from just fixing the tc pres tonestack from what I remember).


----------



## technomancer (May 16, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Yes it’s been traced and yes it’s the tc pre op amp boost with a fixed eq (very marginally different from just fixing the tc pres tonestack from what I remember).



Yep. Oh and the Meshuggah is a 2204 not a plexi.


----------



## DaZoner (May 16, 2019)

The grind and 33 are very closely based on the TC preamp as mentioned above. You can even buy a clone that combines all three circuits in one box, if you're comfortable soldering. Great sounding pedals all of them.

I don't understand why Fortin gets all the hate though. His stuff sounds great. People seem to forget that everything is a borrowed idea from somewhere else.... Except Hendrix, he was an original, LoL.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 16, 2019)

DaZoner said:


> The grind and 33 are very closely based on the TC preamp as mentioned above. You can even buy a clone that combines all three circuits in one box, if you're comfortable soldering. Great sounding pedals all of them.
> 
> I don't understand why Fortin gets all the hate though. His stuff sounds great. People seem to forget that everything is a borrowed idea from somewhere else.... Except Hendrix, he was an original, LoL.


people don't really hate on fortin or his products from what I've seen. they tend to hate on his insufferable fanboys and marketing people.


----------



## TheEscalator (May 18, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> people don't really hate on fortin or his products from what I've seen. they tend to hate on his insufferable fanboys and marketing people.



i seriously love the sound of most of fortins stuff, but damn, this marketing and his community is close to cancer. ever commented in facebooks fortin army that the grind and the 33 are basically the same? the following shitstorm is crazy. people who promote fortins stuff come in to tell to shut up in the rudest of all possible ways, ignoring any facts like frequency analysis, identical PCBs and identical components...

and the daily praising of the zuuls capability to make the amp completly quiet, as if they never connected any other noise gate with a loop to have it triggered by the clean DI.
this is so stupid 

furthermore, he markets the grind as his favorite settings of gith and grind on the NATAS, suggesting it has anything to do with whats going on behind those knobs. well, if those knobs aren't connected to a circuit similar to the TC IPs tone stack this is simply not true 

but his stuff just sounds amazing, but this religion-like cult is so annoying.

Enough OT, back to topic now


----------



## StevenC (May 18, 2019)

TheEscalator said:


> i seriously love the sound of most of fortins stuff, but damn, this marketing and his community is close to cancer. ever commented in facebooks fortin army that the grind and the 33 are basically the same? the following shitstorm is crazy. people who promote fortins stuff come in to tell to shut up in the rudest of all possible ways, ignoring any facts like frequency analysis, identical PCBs and identical components...
> 
> and the daily praising of the zuuls capability to make the amp completly quiet, as if they never connected any other noise gate with a loop to have it triggered by the clean DI.
> this is so stupid
> ...


The worst one I saw was the guy who was ordering the Fortin MIDI switcher but wanted to know what MIDI was and if his Rectifier amp was compatible with MIDI. Or the guy who asked if the 33/Grind channel switching feature would work on his VH4 and Fortin just linked to the MIDI pedal instead of answering the question.


----------



## DaZoner (May 18, 2019)

Wow, I didn't realize his fanboys were that defensive. Too bad for them I say. But I do agree that his stuff sounds good. I try to ignore the marketing side as much as possible.


----------

