# EMG's vs Blackouts



## mustache79 (Mar 2, 2012)

I'm sure this topic has come up a million times over. I've always used EMG's. I keep hearing about Blackouts and how many people say they are way better than EMG's. What's so snazzy about the Blackouts that makes them better? Thanks


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## Captastic (Mar 2, 2012)

You have to remember there are 3 different series of BO's...1,2, and 3. The 1s and 3s also have a neck model that you an use in the bridge just like using an 85 in the bridge. Most people have limited experience with the AHB-1 bridge...which is very hot, and has tons of low end. Since they never adjust their amp for this...you'll hear words like "too hot"..."mudd"...etc. But that's just noobishness...

Over-all..they're more organic and "passive like" in their response. You can actually have pick dynamics with them. My Favs are the AHB-1n and AHB-3n in the bridge spot. Organic...woody...just full w/out being boomy. Soooo nice.


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## Mark_McQ (Mar 2, 2012)

I used to have EMG's in all my guitars. Loved the tightness of them through distortion, but hated the clean sounds, they were thin and sterile to me. Eventually switched over to DiMarzios. Won a set of Blackouts 2 weeks ago, and so far I love them. They have more depth than EMG's through distortion but still are tight, and they have a clean tone more akin to passives. I have the Mick Thomson one in the bridge and I think the AH-1 in the neck.


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## Evil Weasel (Mar 2, 2012)

As above, the Blackouts just sound more responsive and 'organic'. EMG's can sound pretty sterile and compressed compared to a passive. Instant way to improve EMG's is to do the 18V mod. I've done this to my EMG guitars and it is a big improvement. Still nothing on a good passive though IMO.


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## Blynd (Mar 2, 2012)

Go with Bareknuckles  You'll never use anything else! BUT... your bank account won't be thanking you anytime soon


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## Evil Weasel (Mar 2, 2012)

Blynd said:


> Go with Bareknuckles  You'll never use anything else! BUT... your bank account won't be thanking you anytime soon


You can find a good deal on them second hand occasionally. I got a guitar for £100 which had a covered warpig in the bridge and a covered nailbomb in the neck. Swapped the pickups with the V7/V8 from my prestige Ibanez and sold if for £90. That is how you improve a guitar immensely for £10/$15


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## mcleanab (Mar 2, 2012)

Mark_McQ said:


> I used to have EMG's in all my guitars. Loved the tightness of them through distortion, but hated the clean sounds, they were thin and sterile to me. Eventually switched over to DiMarzios. Won a set of Blackouts 2 weeks ago, and so far I love them. They have more depth than EMG's through distortion but still are tight, and they have a clean tone more akin to passives. I have the Mick Thomson one in the bridge and I think the AH-1 in the neck.



Maybe slightly off topic, so forgive me... but I love my EMG 85 in the bridge for high gain and cleans... when I run through the MP-1, yes the cleans suck... when I run through the ISP Theta, the cleans are open, clear and chimey ala Alex Lifeson circa PRESTO/ASOH... but I dig that sound... and oddly enough, I don't have to turn the guitar volume down... but I have yet to run a pickup through the MP-1 for cleans that I like...

When I replaced my passives on each of my guitars (years apart), I always loved the EMG tone better... to each their own... the stock passives in the Ibanez Artcore were good, but the EMG HA and HAX stomped them like a narc at a biker rally...

I'd love to hear more about the Blackouts too... I've been interested in them for a while and although very loyal to EMG, would, if persuaded, try a Blackout... keep the details comin'!!


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## Blynd (Mar 2, 2012)

Evil Weasel said:


> You can find a good deal on them second hand occasionally. I got a guitar for £100 which had a covered warpig in the bridge and a covered nailbomb in the neck. Swapped the pickups with the V7/V8 from my prestige Ibanez and sold if for £90. That is how you improve a guitar immensely for £10/$15


 
SCORE!


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## BlacKat Guitars (Mar 2, 2012)

I have a guitar with EMG89/SA/89 which sounds ok, but has some synthetic quality to it's sound and unusual dynamics. I really hate 81, I have special place for them deep in my heart (or other parts of my body , where they share room with Boss MT2 and other "cool" gear. With all experiences with EMG, I was quite sceptical about all active pickups. 

I think that I first tried Blackouts on some Framus guitars in Markneukirchen days. I was totally impressed. When I was going to get an 8 string (not really start manufacturing guitars, but make one for myself), there were no Deactivators 8 on the market and all other passives were either too expensive, too hard to get, both, or with strange or no reputation. So I bought a set of Blackouts and after that another 5 sets of blackouts for first BlacKat run. 

I'm extremely impressed by their sound in *alder* body. They have plenty of signal, but with good headroom, natural dynamics and tone. Not the best choice for glassy cleanish clean sounds, but they work great for everything from crunch to higains.

What you should really look at IMO is not which pickups you want, but what you want to achieve tonally and how different pickups will sound in *your guitar*. Woods, type of neck joint - it all influences the tone a lot and it is important to use a pickup that will work well with your guitar's featureset. Blackouts+guitar that tends to be muddy = problems.


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## Blynd (Mar 2, 2012)

BlacKat Guitars said:


> I have a guitar with EMG89/SA/89 which sounds ok, but has some synthetic quality to it's sound and unusual dynamics. I really hate 81, I have special place for them deep in my heart (or other parts of my body , where they share room with Boss MT2 and other "cool" gear. With all experiences with EMG, I was quite sceptical about all active pickups.
> 
> I think that I first tried Blackouts on some Framus guitars in Markneukirchen days. I was totally impressed. When I was going to get an 8 string (not really start manufacturing guitars, but make one for myself), there were no Deactivators 8 on the market and all other passives were either too expensive, too hard to get, both, or with strange or no reputation. So I bought a set of Blackouts and after that another 5 sets of blackouts for first BlacKat run.
> 
> ...


 

This brings up a good point... the type of music you're playing and the tone you want to achieve as BlacKat said.


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## mustache79 (Mar 2, 2012)

Blynd said:


> This brings up a good point... the type of music you're playing and the tone you want to achieve as BlacKat said.


 Very true. This is why I'm partial to the EMG 81 and 81-7 because I'm all about the keeping the low end tight as possible and "djenty." I've always used EMG's, I guess I'm stuck in my ways. I'm curious about other options though because- like others have stated- the cleans suck with EMG's. IMO


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## Blynd (Mar 2, 2012)

mustache79 said:


> Very true. This is why I'm partial to the EMG 81 and 81-7 because I'm all about the keeping the low end tight as possible and "djenty." I've always used EMG's, I guess I'm stuck in my ways. I'm curious about other options though because- like others have stated- the cleans suck with EMG's. IMO


 

I'm telling you... if you want the djenty tone and excellent cleans -> Bareknuckles all the way! They are handwound pickups. I currently have the stock EMG's (including teh 81) in my LTD EC-407. Pre-Bareknuckles I would thought... these are pretty damn good. Post-Bareknuckles (courtesy of taking the plunge and putting them in my RGA7) ... I'm eagerly awaiting getting my order to replace the EMG's in the LTD!


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## The Reverend (Mar 2, 2012)

Blackouts are way too hot to resemble any decent clean tone I'm aware of. I have one in the bridge of my ATX C-7. I replaced the neck one with an EMG 707X, which was better in every way possible. 

For most applications, though, the pickup depends on the player. Having had intimate experience with both brands, I can tell you that aside from the basic voicings, they are not too far apart it terms of dynamics, compressions, and harmonics. If you're playing all-distorted stuff, and could use some more distortion, get Blackouts. If you're a fan of cleans, and chordal work that needs a lot of headroom, get EMG 707X's.


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## sell2792 (Mar 2, 2012)

For strictly metal? Original Blackouts, hands down. Theyve blown every EMG equipped guitar I've ever played out of the water.


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## Vinchester (Mar 2, 2012)

Sterile sounding?



Steve Lukather has one of the best EMG lead tone I've ever heard. He uses 85/SLA/SLA in his musicman. 

Guitarists tend to believe this voodoo myth that EMG sounds the same in every guitar, or at least would retain 80% of its character in any guitar, which is mostly bullshit. There are huge difference between good tonewood and bad tonewood and it will always be a significant factor. That said, I've always love my 81/60. It sounds awesome in my Eclipse, sounds even more awesome in my Jackson RR3 (seems like it loves alder! that or my Jackson was born to be fitted with EMGs) but the worst sounding EMGs I've ever tried were in a certain PRS SE sig. I think it was 81/85, but I couldn't believe it was the same EMG I've been playing for years!

I've never had a chance to try Blackouts yet, but would love to.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Mar 2, 2012)

Blackouts Vs Emg's on different settings. by Angst Ridden Dreams on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free
Here's a comparison.


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## djpharoah (Mar 2, 2012)

Hmm.. Thread about pickups.

Hmm... Forum dedicated to pickups..

Hmm... Why thread not in forum??


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## purpledc (Mar 2, 2012)

I dont care for the blackouts. But mind you I grew up on EMG actives and loved them from day one. So to have an active stray too far from that displeases me. At the end of the day though when it comes to pickups whether its active or passive there is no better nor worse only different. Sure I have my favorites and my favorite 6 string actives are actually Mighty Mite. But I dont think that makes other actives bad. 

Ive heard many many killer recordings that were done on EMGs. And I doubt many could even pick an emg out of a blind audio test. But there will always be naysayers for anything. There is even people who feel the axe fx isnt all its cracked up to be. Others have found it to be a religion. I say try both blackouts and emg's and let your ears decide. Not popular opinion.


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## KiD Cudi (Mar 3, 2012)

Having tried blackouts and owning EMGs I have to say that the blackouts are superior. I found them tighter, bigger, and more natural sounding without that compressed squashy sounding pick attack that EMGs have when you pick hard/fast sometimes.


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## Jason_Clement (Mar 3, 2012)

I personally prefer after-market actives to any passive I've played. That is to say, anything by Seymour passive wise does not match up to their actives, in my opinion. But boutique passives are a whole nother story 

That being said, EMGs and Blackouts are two different beasts.

I personally prefer the Blackouts. The AHB1 set is my all time favourite pick up set  

Strictly comparing EMGs and Blackouts, Blackouts tend to be fuller and more "organic" sounding.


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## Jason_Clement (Mar 3, 2012)

Vinchester said:


> Sterile sounding?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




^ this. I have an 85/60 set I absolutely adore. I had them in a Jackson I once owned (I regret selling it to this day), and they have since migrated to my Ibanez RG321. They SUCK in the Ibanez. So dead sounding. In the Jackson they had so much life.

Jackson was alderwood vs mahogany, but still ... my guitar does gently weep ;__;


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## Dayn (Mar 3, 2012)

I think EMGs are okay. They're quite versatile. I eventually swapped my normal 808s out of my RG2228 for 808Xs. So much better, in my opinion. I've read reviews and listened to samples, and personally, Blackouts have way too much bass and output for my liking. Although my 808s are still okay, I prefer the greater headroom and lower output of the X series.

I think in the end, it probably comes down to how you like your signal shaped before the amp. I prefer more-transparent pickups myself, so I like my EMGs.


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## TRENCHLORD (Mar 3, 2012)

To make an analogy, I find the blackout's boost to be more akin to an EQ pedal boost, and EMGs to give more of a tubescreamer type boost (mid-humped with a bass chop).

I prefer the emgs laser cutting upper mids myself. But I like both actually.


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## The Reverend (Mar 3, 2012)

TRENCHLORD said:


> To make an analogy, I find the blackout's boost to be more akin to an EQ pedal boost, and EMGs to give more of a tubescreamer type boost (mid-humped with a bass chop).
> 
> I prefer the emgs laser cutting upper mids myself. But I like both actually.



That's why I use both in my guitar!


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## blackrobedone (Mar 3, 2012)

Don't let the Bareknuckle trolls fool you. It's so tired, for them to chime in on any and every topic to post, "why not instead switch to BKPs?" Which amp? BKPs! Which overdrive? BKPs! Give it a rest.

Blackouts vs. EMGs? "Obviously BKPs!" 

There is not one BKP that's even remotely close to Duncan Blackouts in terms of specs or sound. 

Blackouts have more depth and sound more natural than EMGs. I love EMGs too but am slowly but surely swapping them out in all my guitars. EMGs are thinner sounding and over compressed. The high end is more harsh on an EMG. I tried the EMG X series and I didn't find them any better than regular EMGs - in fact, they were worse in my experience, and grainy sounding. The EMG Hetfields are pretty cool, but I still think Duncan Blackouts (not the Mick Thompson ones nor the Blackouts Metal) are the best active pickups out there.

The Duncans can have too much bass in certain guitars, but not so much that it can't be dialed out on your amp. They were the salvation of my SG, and they sound awesome in 7 strings as well.

You can get one used for about $60 and swap it with the quick connect for an EMG. It you don't like it, resell it for $60.


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## Vinchester (Mar 3, 2012)

The Reverend said:


> That's why I use both in my guitar!



okay you win the thread


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## anne (Mar 3, 2012)

The Reverend said:


> Blackouts are way too hot to resemble any decent clean tone I'm aware of. I have one in the bridge of my ATX C-7. I replaced the neck one with an EMG 707X, which was better in every way possible.



I use an AHB-1 neck for cleans all the time. What amps were you using?


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## chanjcw (Mar 3, 2012)

I have EMG 81/85's in my Schecter, and they're amazing. the distortion is so tight and dynamic, the high register cuts through the mix well and the low end is very nice. For clean though, i switch to the 85 only. it gives me a nice thick clean tone, just what i like. its all whatever *you* like. your sound.


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## purpledc (Mar 3, 2012)

blackrobedone said:


> Don't let the Bareknuckle trolls fool you. It's so tired, for them to chime in on any and every topic to post, "why not instead switch to BKPs?" Which amp? BKPs! Which overdrive? BKPs! Give it a rest.
> 
> Blackouts vs. EMGs? "Obviously BKPs!"
> 
> ...




I have to agree with the BKP comments. I always find it funny when people recommend those pickups and then at some point admit that they never have owned them but watched youtube videos and found that they liked them better. Im sure they make a fine product. But I dont think they are the answer for everything.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Mar 3, 2012)

I have a fair number of guitars, mostly with different DiMarzio combinations. I've had a fair number of EMG 707's and EMG 6 string combinations.

I found that adjusting the pickup height was critical with EMG's as too close to the string produces limited dynamics and the compression effect everyone seems to associate with EMG's. Lower pickup = greater dynamic range.

I have two guitars which are the same; mahogany bodied super strat's with Gotoh high stability trems from a brand which I keep secret as I want them all for myself. 

One is setup with 60-12 GHS ZW strings, tuned B - B, for tracking 7 string rythmns and has an 85 in the bridge and an 81 in the neck. I just thought do it different to everyone else and never changed them round. Works fine. Studio / metal guitar.

The other guitar is setup 9-42 D'Addario, E-E and is for soloing and conventional playing. It has Blackout phase II's with chrome or nickel covers. Soloing / all purpose guitar.

They're setup for different jobs, obviously. The blackouts have been great for all styles, the volume control offers every tone needed for all genres. The tone control is there for fine tuning. 3 position switch, I mostly use the neck pickup for non metal styles. Great pickups and I'm really pleased with them. Previously was using Satriani DiMarzio set (Mo Joe and PAF Joe in the neck, which were really nice pickups, then put a Tom Anderson HS3+ in the bridge which was also good, pull pot to tap for single coils).

Now I'm in no position to compare them, although having two identical guitars (different maple tops and stains) they're setup for different purposes. Both are high quality pickup combinations and are versatile for all applications, relying on good setup for superior performance.

The TL/DR is;

Different guitar setups for different jobs!

Blackouts are versatile, as are EMG's!

Active pickup discussion, BKP don't make an active... yet!


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## KiD Cudi (Mar 3, 2012)

blackrobedone said:


> Don't let the Bareknuckle trolls fool you. It's so tired, for them to chime in on any and every topic to post, "why not instead switch to BKPs?" Which amp? BKPs! Which overdrive? BKPs! Give it a rest.
> 
> Blackouts vs. EMGs? "Obviously BKPs!"
> 
> ...



Well, people suggest BKP's so often because they make damn good pickups... Noticeably better than some of the more popular pickups on the market.


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## cyril v (Mar 3, 2012)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> Active pickup discussion, BKP don't make an active... yet!



I'm sure if they did, even if it ended up just being an EMG with a BKP sticker on it... it would instantly be hailed as the _best_ active pup ever!!1!


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## sell2792 (Mar 4, 2012)

KiD Cudi said:


> Well, people suggest BKP's so often because they make damn good pickups... Noticeably better than some of the more popular pickups on the market.



I'd still beg to differ on that. They're on par with Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio's, and I prefer them over EMGs, but I would NOT say that in my experience with them that they're better than the first two I mentioned.


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## KiD Cudi (Mar 4, 2012)

sell2792 said:


> I'd still beg to differ on that. They're on par with Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio's, and I prefer them over EMGs, but I would NOT say that in my experience with them that they're better than the first two I mentioned.



Out of curiosity what BKP's, Duncans, and Dimarzio's have you tried?


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## Blynd (Mar 4, 2012)

sell2792 said:


> I'd still beg to differ on that. They're on par with Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio's, and I prefer them over EMGs, but I would NOT say that in my experience with them that they're better than the first two I mentioned.



Hmm, how do you figure? I have bkps in both of my 7 strings. I took the plunge to see what the hype was about and never looked back. I have used blackouts and emgs. However, you'll really hear the difference in the studio vs playing live. Thats why I use bkps. If you are just playing live, it's not going to make a huge difference. I would argue about active vs passive. I prefer passive because the guitar really molds the sound. With actives, the woods used in the guitar don't really aid the shaping of the tone.

There will always be haters of every type of pickup and everyone has their own opinion. But the most valid opinion comes from those who have used all the pickups in question. So YES i personally have used all and have my own preference which is all I can state.


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## sell2792 (Mar 4, 2012)

Blynd said:


> Hmm, how do you figure? I have bkps in both of my 7 strings. I took the plunge to see what the hype was about and never looked back. I have used blackouts and emgs. However, you'll really hear the difference in the studio vs playing live. Thats why I use bkps. If you are just playing live, it's not going to make a huge difference...
> There will always be haters of every type of pickup and everyone has their own opinion. But the most valid opinion comes from those who have used all the pickups in question. So YES i personally have used all and have my own preference which is all I can state.



I figure because I've used Warpigs, Aftermaths, and Coldsweats, which all sounded good, but no more so than most the SD's and DiMarzio's I've used. Seeing as I play primarily live, that's what's most important to me. Even then, I and a lot of people spend more time playing than in the studio. I'm not hating, I cleary stated that in my opinion, I don't find them to be better or for that matter justify the new price of them. They're good, just not that good.



KiD Cudi said:


> Out of curiosity what BKP's, Duncans, and Dimarzio's have you tried?


The aforementioned BKP's.
SD: JB, 59', Jazz, Custom, Pearly Gates, P Rails, Distortion, Invader, Dimebucker, Livewires, AHB-1 Blackouts.
DiMarzio: Super Distortion, Evolution, Crunch Lab, LiquiFire, D Activator, X2N, PAF Pro, the various Joe Satch. PAFs in his different Ibanezs.


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## Blynd (Mar 4, 2012)

sell2792 said:


> I figure because I've used Warpigs, Aftermaths, and Coldsweats, which all sounded good, but no more so than most the SD's and DiMarzio's I've used. Seeing as I play primarily live, that's what's most important to me. Even then, I and a lot of people spend more time playing than in the studio. I'm not hating, I cleary stated that in my opinion, I don't find them to be better or for that matter justify the new price of them. They're good, just not that good.
> 
> 
> The aforementioned BKP's.
> ...




Truth be told... if you can afford them, get BKPs. The price is outrageous and not for everyone. BKPs heavily rely on the application in which they are used. If you put the wrong BKPs in your guitar, it won't sound good. They are hand-wound and the attention to detail is something you won't notice if you've blown our your ear drums playing metal all your life.

Otherwise, go for Blackouts or modded EMGs. More importantly, research what pickups are the best for your setup and your goals (i.e. type of guitar, type of music and playing style, live vs studio, etc). A little research goes a long way. Then it doesn't matter what pickups, just whether or not you get the sound you want. That's also going to be dependant on what type of rig you're running through. Here... it's just all opinion and people playing favorites.

And to the haters that BKP fans are just trolling  Just because you can't afford them, doesn't mean you have to go into a fit of jealousy (pretty sure that will piss a couple people off... muhahaha)


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## djpharoah (Mar 4, 2012)

Blynd said:


> And to the haters that BKP fans are just trolling  Just because you can't afford them, doesn't mean you have to go into a fit of jealousy (pretty sure that will piss a couple people off... muhahaha)





Man the characters we have on here.


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## KiD Cudi (Mar 4, 2012)

sell2792 said:


> I figure because I've used Warpigs, Aftermaths, and Coldsweats, which all sounded good, but no more so than most the SD's and DiMarzio's I've used. Seeing as I play primarily live, that's what's most important to me. Even then, I and a lot of people spend more time playing than in the studio. I'm not hating, I cleary stated that in my opinion, I don't find them to be better or for that matter justify the new price of them. They're good, just not that good.
> 
> 
> The aforementioned BKP's.
> ...



That's a hell of a lot... Lol
Anyway, the only Duncans/Dimarzio's that I was really impressed with when I tried 'em were the Jazz, Blackouts, and PAF Pro's. TBH the Jazz neck pickup is the only one that I think has the dynamic response and clarity that I love about BKPs. In all I've tried the Distortion, JB, 59, Jazz, Dimebucker, Blackouts, Crunch Lab, Liquifire, PAF Pro's, and Evo's and most of them disappointed me especially the John Petrucci set for some reason. Through my guitars and amps(not the best but decent) I can hear a significant tonal improvement and that's the only reason I can justify going through the trouble of actually purchasing them, otherwise I'd settle on some Duncans because BKP's are a pain in the arse to get in the US at least in my experience...


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## pushpull7 (Mar 5, 2012)

@barekuckle: I don't like the way they look! 

I don't like my emg's anymore. I just noticed the blackouts have the quick/change so I'm looking into them now.


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