# Bernie Rico Jr Passed Away



## Vyn (Sep 21, 2020)

Am yet to be able to verify this however looks like BRJ has passed away.


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## narad (Sep 21, 2020)

Man, crazy. Despite not being the most liked guy, seemed like a kind of tragic life and I'm sorry to hear of his passing. It's easy these days to overlook the amount of influence his shop had in shaping what's now a huge custom guitar market for ERGs and fancy wood shredders, especially on this forum. Some of these were really great:

















There was a beautiful natural quilt to blackburst jekyll 6-string I used to gawk over all the time (like 12 years ago) but can't find any pics. If anyone thinks they know it, let me know!


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## Hollowway (Sep 21, 2020)

We’ve got like 3 threads going on this. Maybe the mods can combine them.


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## Adieu (Sep 21, 2020)

narad said:


> Man, crazy. Despite not being the most liked guy, seemed like a kind of tragic life and I'm sorry to hear of his passing. It's easy these days to overlook the amount of influence his shop had in shaping what's now a huge custom guitar market for ERGs and fancy wood shredders, especially on this forum. Some of these were really great:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Those look like Agiles

Or did he come up with it first?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 21, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> We’ve got like 3 threads going on this. Maybe the mods can combine them.



Nah.


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## narad (Sep 21, 2020)

Adieu said:


> Those look like Agiles
> 
> Or did he come up with it first?



I mean, I don't think at all that they're enough like Agiles to be talking about who came up with "the same thing" first. But if I did, then yes, I think he would have come up with it first? I feel like Agiles started popping up here more around 2012, which was probably close to peak BRJ.


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## Emperoff (Sep 21, 2020)

A tragic end to a tragic story, I guess...


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## twguitar (Sep 21, 2020)

Sad ending to a troubled story. I love the guitars he put out and that’s often forgotten


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## Steinmetzify (Sep 21, 2020)

This dude ripped off a bunch of people and they paid and never got their guitars. 

This will never be forgotten by me or the people that he owes $ to. 

The only reason I’m sad he died is because he died owing money to brothers of mine. 

No fucks.


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## narad (Sep 22, 2020)

steinmetzify said:


> This dude ripped off a bunch of people and they paid and never got their guitars.
> 
> This will never be forgotten by me or the people that he owes $ to.
> 
> ...



That may be true, and almost being on the side of several luthier cheat scandals myself, I sympathize. Being dead doesn’t excuse the bad deeds done in life, but his legacy will always be the black friday fiasco and the dozens of people scammed. Nothing’s changing that. But dying in your 40s (or early 50s?) is a tough break either way. 

And at the same time, life’s not Disney — no one’s out there being pure evil. I think I'm pretty morally okay, but I'm sure I'm just one all-consuming drug habit away from doing some questionable shitty things too.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2020)

narad said:


> That may be true, and almost being on the side of several luthier cheat scandals myself, I sympathize. Being dead doesn’t excuse the bad deeds done in life, but his legacy will always be the black friday fiasco and the dozens of people scammed. Nothing’s changing that. But dying in your 40s (or early 50s?) is a tough break either way.
> 
> And at the same time, life’s not Disney — no one’s out there being pure evil. I think I'm pretty morally okay, but I'm sure I'm just one all-consuming drug habit away from doing some questionable shitty things too.



While the acceptability of the time and place is debatable, it's important to not revise history, which I'm seeing pop up in multiple places. 

I already said this in one of the other threads: it's important to separate the person from the deeds and thus, no one deserves to die this young. RIP.

But a tragic end doesn't make the deeds less shitty. I agree though, this thread probably isn't the ideal place to dive into that.


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## narad (Sep 22, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> While the acceptability of the time and place is debatable, it's important to not revise history, which I'm seeing pop up in multiple places.
> 
> I already said this in one of the other threads: it's important to separate the person from the deeds and thus, no one deserves to die this young. RIP.
> 
> But a tragic end doesn't make the deeds less shitty. I agree though, this thread probably isn't the ideal place to dive into that.



Yea, like I'm not going to act like the authority on where to calibrate the right amount of praise and insult here. Just that I've seen (also in multiple places) this notion that saying something positive is somehow revisionist or glossing over all the shitty things they did.

Fact: BRJ built some fantastic guitars that were highly inspirational.
Fact: BRJ provided great customer service at times.
Fact: BRJ ran off with tens of thousands of dollars of guitar deposits.
Fact: BRJ was an ass to many people.

I don't think anyone's going to forget the latter things, as that is what he's become synonymous with here, for years. Rather, people are probably more at risk of forgetting he did anything right, and that some of those guitars were pretty cool!


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## Steinmetzify (Sep 22, 2020)

narad said:


> That may be true, and almost being on the side of several luthier cheat scandals myself, I sympathize. Being dead doesn’t excuse the bad deeds done in life, but his legacy will always be the black friday fiasco and the dozens of people scammed. Nothing’s changing that. But dying in your 40s (or early 50s?) is a tough break either way.
> 
> And at the same time, life’s not Disney — no one’s out there being pure evil. I think I'm pretty morally okay, but I'm sure I'm just one all-consuming drug habit away from doing some questionable shitty things too.



EDIT: just saw Max’s post. I’ll edit this, you’re right man, not the time nor the place.


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## Hollowway (Sep 22, 2020)

Yeah, I mean it’s still totally legitimate to be pissed off what he did. Death doesn’t excuse his sins. I think some people feel like his death means they can’t be mad still, and that’s totally not the case. As Max says, the deeds still stand.


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## High Plains Drifter (Sep 22, 2020)

When people's personal opinions immediately surface upon the news of someone's death, that sort of cancels out the often suggested payment of respect. I'm not defending the way that anyone lived their life but I don't wish to pass judgement either. No one truly knows what demons or issues might've been deeply seated within someone that has died and a moment of simple regard or civility shouldn't be so easily dismissed. One can certainly be angry yet humbly mindful of a life that was cut short and although that anger may be certainly justified, in most instances it should eventually fade.


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## Carl Kolchak (Sep 22, 2020)

High Plains Drifter said:


> When people's personal opinions immediately surface upon the news of someone's death, that sort of cancels out the often suggested payment of respect. I'm not defending the way that anyone lived their life but I don't wish to pass judgement either. No one truly knows what demons or issues might've been deeply seated within someone that has died and a moment of simple regard or civility shouldn't be so easily dismissed. One can certainly be angry yet humbly mindful of a life that was cut short and although that anger may be certainly justified, in most instances it should eventually fade.


The guy was a thief/scam artist, right? So fuck him in life as well as in death.


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## possumkiller (Sep 22, 2020)

I wonder if trump or any of the other scumbag con artists in business, politics, or religion would get so much sympathy? 

Maybe I'm just getting harsh in my old age, but to me this just means nobody else will get scammed and ripped off by brj. The man. I'm sure someone will buy the name and try to milk it. Or his family will.


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## Carl Kolchak (Sep 22, 2020)

possumkiller said:


> I wonder if trump or any of the other scumbag con artists in business, politics, or religion would get so much sympathy?
> 
> Maybe I'm just getting harsh in my old age, but to me this just means nobody else will get scammed and ripped off by brj. The man. I'm sure someone will buy the name and try to milk it. Or his family will.


Ginsburg? 

And no, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to hear that someone bought the name with the intention of keeping that shitshow going posthumously.


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## narad (Sep 22, 2020)

Carl Kolchak said:


> Ginsburg?
> 
> And no, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to hear that someone bought the name with the intention of keeping that shitshow going posthumously.



I heard the estate is taking deposits on the use of the name.


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## High Plains Drifter (Sep 22, 2020)

Carl Kolchak said:


> The guy was a thief/scam artist, right? So fuck him in life as well as in death.



Yeah... I get it. I knew that what I said would fall upon deaf ears. I understand that people don't want to exhibit any restrained civility and again... I don't defend his actions in the least. I really don't care one way or another.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 22, 2020)

Apparently Neal Moser commented on it. So yeah, if it wasn't confirmed before, it's looking more and more true.


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## bostjan (Sep 22, 2020)

My condolences to the Rico family. No one deserves to have their father, husband, etc. taken from them suddenly, like that.


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## Bogner (Sep 22, 2020)

possumkiller said:


> I wonder if trump or any of the other scumbag con artists in business, politics, or religion would get so much sympathy?
> 
> Maybe I'm just getting harsh in my old age, but to me this just means nobody else will get scammed and ripped off by brj. The man. I'm sure someone will buy the name and try to milk it. Or his family will.


Sounds like you are trying to Make America Great Again or Keep America Great.


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## possumkiller (Sep 23, 2020)

Bogner said:


> Sounds like you are trying to Make America Great Again or Keep America Great.


Why? Because when a scumbag dies, people suddenly want to forget what a scumbag they were because for some reason they feel guilty for thinking someone that died is a scumbag? Everyone dies sooner or later. Fuck brj. Did anyone here cry when ed roman died? I sure as hell didn't.


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## Adieu (Sep 23, 2020)

possumkiller said:


> Why? Because when a scumbag dies, people suddenly want to forget what a scumbag they were because for some reason they feel guilty for thinking someone that died is a scumbag? Everyone dies sooner or later. Fuck brj. Did anyone here cry when ed roman died? I sure as hell didn't.



Ed Roman was entertaining


#Make Interwebz Fun Again


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## Dayn (Sep 23, 2020)

But all of that's forgotten once he took his final breath, as even assholes become top blokes after death.


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## Lorcan Ward (Sep 23, 2020)

It’s ok for people to be angry. Bernie lied and stole their money. He was a crook who caused untold amounts of grief for his customers and should have served jail time. His death doesn’t change that but it won’t get people’s money back.


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## 777timesgod (Sep 23, 2020)

There is one good thing out of this, the Black friday thread on this forum can finally close. Any 0.00000001% chance that the members had here of getting a guitar (send for repair) back or some compensation for their ordered gear is now gone. It also dispels the rumour that his illness was completely fake, apparently there was truth to that, despite not being the right thing to use it as an excuse to push all responsibility under the rug.
Finally, this erases any rumours for an involvement in the new BC Rich revamp. 
Checking some of his guitars from his good years, there are some beauties there such as the sinner below I considered buying a decade ago.


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## Humbuck (Sep 23, 2020)

Picked this up a few years ago because I have a friend who has a red one just like this only glossy...he ordered and received it years ago and it's an incredible guitar that I got to spend some time with when I was looking to buy a high end 7. I was unaware of all the back story although my friend gave me a short synopsis. Anyhow it plays and sounds fantastic...just like his. If I got a bad guitar, I sure can't tell!!


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## Bogner (Sep 23, 2020)

possumkiller said:


> Why? Because when a scumbag dies, people suddenly want to forget what a scumbag they were because for some reason they feel guilty for thinking someone that died is a scumbag? Everyone dies sooner or later. Fuck brj. Did anyone here cry when ed roman died? I sure as hell didn't.


No, because you had to bring up Trump. Carry on...


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## BlackMastodon (Sep 23, 2020)

Biggest bummer about all this is that any glimmer of hope for refunds to those people he fucked over has died with him. 

Condolences to his family, I suppose.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 23, 2020)

narad said:


> Fact: *BRJ built* some fantastic guitars that were highly inspirational.



That in itself is a revision. Not a single guitar you posted about was built by the guy. 

His whole business and persona, of a master luthier hand making guitars in California, was a lie.


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## narad (Sep 23, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That in itself is a revision. Not a single guitar you posted about was built by the guy.
> 
> His whole business and persona, of a master luthier hand making guitars in California, was a lie.



I mean in the brand sense, i.e., "BRJ is responsible for..." I don't think I ever cared enough to get the details of how those are built, but it seemed like the guitars were his vision, right down to the logo looking like someone sketching a dick and balls.


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## Randy (Sep 23, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That in itself is a revision. Not a single guitar you posted about was built by the guy.
> 
> His whole business and persona, of a master luthier hand making guitars in California, was a lie.



He did build some of the BCR CS stuff at one point though, right? I mean, I get the impression he was a capable builder and maybe designer (?) but the Mexican shadow builder thing was more about volume building. Even guys like Grover don't actually build ALL the guitars in their shop, they just oversee it. I'm not sure Bernie explicitly said he was handbuilding all his stuff, the dishonest part was that he had it being built over the border for the sake of the cheaper labor/facility costs rather than overseeing a functioning shop in SoCal.


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## Randy (Sep 23, 2020)

FWIW, I think it's seems pretty well documented he had some kind of an addiction/abuse problem. I've known a few people going through this (I'm sure a lot of us have), and it's a signature of this downward spiral that you use every asset you have available to you (ie: a prostitute and their body, Keene and his music/touring, Ryan Buell and his paranormal stuff, etc.) to continue feeding your habit. At one point it was this forum (and others) with his namesake, but the NAMM appearance and the frequent "he's coming back!" talk were all indicative of what he was doing.

I think that's very different than the typical conman dynamic where you're just a sociopath out to take everyone else's money with no empathy, etc. An addict has tunnel vision of feeding their addiction, they lose their ability gauge how their behavior damages others. One distinct difference is the fact an addict will hurt themselves to feed their addiction, a sociopath's one and only focus is NOT hurting themself.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 23, 2020)

Randy said:


> He did build some of the BCR CS stuff at one point though, right? I mean, I get the impression he was a capable builder and maybe designer (?) but the Mexican shadow builder thing was more about volume building. Even guys like Grover don't actually build ALL the guitars in their shop, they just oversee it. I'm not sure Bernie explicitly said he was handbuilding all his stuff, the dishonest part was that he had it being built over the border for the sake of the cheaper labor/facility costs rather than overseeing a functioning shop in SoCal.



He probably built stuff around 01'/02' from what I gather, and even then it doesn't look like he had a hand in an actual guitar building business since then. Everything was farmed out for the most part. 

Even then, it's somewhat questionable as he was still messing around with South Korean OEMs at that time (the prelude to the "Hybrid" series stuff launched not long after). 

I'm sure he had built guitars at some point. But even for several years prior to the launch of the BRF run he was mostly doing final assembly to some extent, though he did have a few employees to do that up until around 12' or so. 

For the record, on multiple occasions, BRJ and those acting on his behalf (MTech, Merrow, etc.) had said he was the principal builder and the work was "not CNC". That continuously morphed as the truth started coming to light. 

I understand the difference between running a guitar company and building/designing guitars.


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## zappatton2 (Sep 23, 2020)

Randy said:


> FWIW, I think it's seems pretty well documented he had some kind of an addiction/abuse problem. I've known a few people going through this (I'm sure a lot of us have), and it's a signature of this downward spiral that you use every asset you have available to you (ie: a prostitute and their body, Keene and his music/touring, Ryan Buell and his paranormal stuff, etc.) to continue feeding your habit. At one point it was this forum (and others) with his namesake, but the NAMM appearance and the frequent "he's coming back!" talk were all indicative of what he was doing.
> 
> I think that's very different than the typical conman dynamic where you're just a sociopath out to take everyone else's money with no empathy, etc. An addict has tunnel vision of feeding their addiction, they lose their ability gauge how their behavior damages others. One distinct difference is the fact an addict will hurt themselves to feed their addiction, a sociopath's one and only focus is NOT hurting themself.


I really think this is a fundamental nuance, regardless of how shitty the outcome really was for a lot of people. I was nearly one of them, and I'd agree just the same if I was, having been equally financially fucked over by people who were sick, rather than predatory sociopaths.


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## Randy (Sep 23, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I understand the difference between running a guitar company and building/designing guitars.



Oh, I'm sure. That's not directed at you. Keep in mind the way BRJ is praised on those BCR forums/groups like he literally sculpted the guitars out of marble. There's a WIDE gulf between that and having the guitars built outside of the country by nameless assembly-line workers. The gulf narrows a good bit when it's 'small shop built in US' vs. 'small shop built 80 miles away from the US shop'.

Agreed, he and his supporters were very dishonest about how much BRJ was actually doing. There's no way you "came down to the shop, spend the weekend trying out sick BRJs bro" and didn't notice no actual guitar building equipment.


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## Randy (Sep 23, 2020)

For the record, I would've knowingly/willingly bought a MIM build BRJ for the $1500 - $1800 Black Friday prices. That was a reasonable price for the specs anywhere in North America.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 23, 2020)

Randy said:


> For the record, I would've knowingly/willingly bought a MIM build BRJ for the $1500 - $1800 Black Friday prices. That was a reasonable price for the specs anywhere in North America.



For a time his "regular" stuff was in the $2k range and that was very reasonable considering what was available at the time (circa 2008/2009).

But he couldn't survive at those prices, especially since that's when he still had dealers getting a cut. 

Stuff shot up to the upper $3k range for maybe a year or two and then the "Special Runs" started happening. 

I don't think many would have been genuinely put off had it been marketed as a team of incredibly skilled lifelong, multi-generational craftspeople building the guitars, regardless of where the shop was situated. It was his own hubris that got in the way and lead to the lies.


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## SpaceDock (Sep 23, 2020)

I had some bad business with BRJ and had pursued legal action against him. I have been avoiding this thread since reading about his death. I guess I don’t hold a grudge anymore after his passing, but I think the same vices that lead to his business failure also lead to his death. I really respect people who can hold it together over the years and not fall into these traps like BRJ. It sometimes seems like quick money, drugs, and adoration can really fuck up peoples lives and make them believe they are immune or above the rest of us. I didn’t know him personally but I think his story just gets repeated in many industries all the time. Waste of my money, waste of his talents, waste of his life, waste of our time.


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## Hollowway (Sep 24, 2020)

SpaceDock said:


> I had some bad business with BRJ and had pursued legal action against him.


Did you get any money back from him?


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## Sermo Lupi (Sep 24, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't think many would have been genuinely put off had it been marketed as a team of incredibly skilled lifelong, multi-generational craftspeople building the guitars, regardless of where the shop was situated. It was his own hubris that got in the way and lead to the lies.



It has been so long since that whole debacle that I don't even fully remember what happened. What I do remember is people placing orders for special runs and there being these incredible delays (and, after a few years, suspicion of a scam). 

Was it not always known that BRJ had a workshop full of people? Just the scale of the operation would make a one man show seem absurd. I remember pictures with dozens of in-progress guitars in a sort of warehouse building. White walls, concrete floors. Even in Narad's second photo you can count 22 guitars on the wall. To believe BRJ is cranking all those out himself, or that he needs a warehouse as a personal workshop, is kinda crazy in itself. 

Or was it that those photos didn't come to light until AFTER BRJ admitted he had helping hands? Where were the guitars being built? Who were the multi-generational craftspeople he was employing?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 24, 2020)

Sermo Lupi said:


> It has been so long since that whole debacle that I don't even fully remember what happened. What I do remember is people placing orders for special runs and there being these incredible delays (and, after a few years, suspicion of a scam).
> 
> Was it not always known that BRJ had a workshop full of people? Just the scale of the operation would make a one man show seem absurd. I remember pictures with dozens of in-progress guitars in a sort of warehouse building. White walls, concrete floors. Even in Narad's second photo you can count 22 guitars on the wall. To believe BRJ is cranking all those out himself, or that he needs a warehouse as a personal workshop, is kinda crazy in itself.
> 
> Or was it that those photos didn't come to light until AFTER BRJ admitted he had helping hands? Where were the guitars being built? Who were the multi-generational craftspeople he was employing?



It was originally sold as a primarily one person operation, which was believable given the output in the early 00's. 

A little later on he had employees, like Ed the paint guy, and a few "helpers" who would work at the USA facility (the building in the pictures). 

When it was questioned how: 1) you rarely ever saw guitars being roughed in, and 2) how could he keep up with more orders, it was mentioned that there was a separate "woodshop" where his "woodshop guy" (later "woodshop guys") would build some of the basic blanks. It was said explicitly that it was located in the US and that Bernie personally oversaw it's operations. 

Of course it later came out that it was a small shop down in Mexico that operated almost completely independently. It's worth mentioning that they were also ripped off by BRJ. 

If you grind through the giant BFR thread some of the folks who worked there have chimed in. I vetted a few of them, and through pics and emails, they mostly seemed legit.


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## Shrediablo (Sep 24, 2020)

Sucks reading through this thread seeing how many people he scammed. I ordered a guitar from him in 2011 which I got a year later, makes me wonder where it was made after reading all of this. Anyone know where Ed the paint guy is working now? He had some awesome finishes.


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## SpaceDock (Sep 24, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> Did you get any money back from him?



no, in fact I watched my guitar with my name written in the control cavity be sold on eBay and I was screwed out of $2200.


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## M3CHK1LLA (Sep 24, 2020)

SpaceDock said:


> no, in fact I watched my guitar with my name written in the control cavity be sold on eBay and I was screwed out of $2200.


wow...that's crazy 

im sure you reported it to ebay. if so what was their reaction?
were the buyer and seller aware?


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## Demiurge (Sep 24, 2020)

It's sad. When I was a naive/better person, I always felt like everyone should have an opportunity to make their wrongs right. Now, I guess you just have to live your life knowing that it could end at any time with chips falling as they may regarding their legacy.


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## Merrekof (Sep 24, 2020)

M3CHK1LLA said:


> wow...that's crazy
> 
> im sure you reported it to ebay. if so what was their reaction?
> were the buyer and seller aware?


Not much I guess. If BRJ's assets are being sold to the highest bidder, @SpaceDock unfinished guitar is technically and lawfully the property of said bidder. If he sells them on eBay or some other guy, who can stop him.
Ebay can't do a thing about it because it is technically right. Is it morally right? That is another matter..


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## Hollowway (Sep 24, 2020)

Merrekof said:


> Not much I guess. If BRJ's assets are being sold to the highest bidder, @SpaceDock unfinished guitar is technically and lawfully the property of said bidder. If he sells them on eBay or some other guy, who can stop him.
> Ebay can't do a thing about it because it is technically right. Is it morally right? That is another matter..



well, no, because that guitar was his. The highest bidder was buying HIS guitar. I’m sure proper documentation wasn’t given for who owned what. But if I buy an item, and it doesn’t ship, and someone else buys it again, I’m not supposed to just eat the loss. The fact is the second person shouldn’t be able to buy it. I think what’s likely is the situation was FUBAR, and no one could make any sense of his records. Or chose not too, more likely.


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## Merrekof (Sep 24, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> well, no, because that guitar was his. The highest bidder was buying HIS guitar. I’m sure proper documentation wasn’t given for who owned what. But if I buy an item, and it doesn’t ship, and someone else buys it again, I’m not supposed to just eat the loss. The fact is the second person shouldn’t be able to buy it. I think what’s likely is the situation was FUBAR, and no one could make any sense of his records. Or chose not too, more likely.


Hmm, this is one for lawyers I think. As long as the guitar is completely finished or handed over and completely paid for, it is still considered as materials, thus it is BRJs property. I don't know exactly though but I think as a customer, you are at a loss.


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## Hollowway (Sep 24, 2020)

Merrekof said:


> Hmm, this is one for lawyers I think. As long as the guitar is completely finished or handed over and completely paid for, it is still considered as materials, thus it is BRJs property. I don't know exactly though but I think as a customer, you are at a loss.


Oh, I didn’t know that. Well that really sucks, then. I’m sure he had a lot of guitars that people had already paid for, that got bought again.


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## SpaceDock (Sep 24, 2020)

When I contact eBay, the seller, and the officer who I had my case with, the conclusion was that the guitar was not mine because it had not been in my possession at any time. My dispute with Rico was purely financial legally. The seller had bought a whole pile of the unfinished guitars from a storage/repo auction. The story I heard on that was Rico didn’t pay his bills after his car “accident” so they took all the stuff in the shop (our guitars too) and unloaded them for bottom dollar to recoup their lease and utility payments.


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## Hollowway (Sep 24, 2020)

SpaceDock said:


> When I contact eBay, the seller, and the officer who I had my case with, the conclusion was that the guitar was not mine because it had not been in my possession at any time. My dispute with Rico was purely financial legally. The seller had bought a whole pile of the unfinished guitars from a storage/repo auction. The story I heard on that was Rico didn’t pay his bills after his car “accident” so they took all the stuff in the shop (our guitars too) and unloaded them for bottom dollar to recoup their lease and utility payments.


Yeah. Well, even if it was in your possession there’s not much you could do. I had a DAR Tuzzia that I sent in for a repair, and he never returned it. I contacted the police and they told me it was a civil matter, and that the best I could do was take him to court and try to get it that way. The fact is, the law doesn’t really have much way of enforcing things. They can pass a judgement, but they can’t make someone pay, or give you your property. It doesn’t make financial sense to hire a lawyer continually unless it’s a large amount of money. That said, kudos for at least attempting to get your guitar. More people should at least try, because at some level something might happen.


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## Dayn (Sep 25, 2020)

SpaceDock said:


> When I contact eBay, the seller, and the officer who I had my case with, the conclusion was that the guitar was not mine because it had not been in my possession at any time. My dispute with Rico was purely financial legally. The seller had bought a whole pile of the unfinished guitars from a storage/repo auction. The story I heard on that was Rico didn’t pay his bills after his car “accident” so they took all the stuff in the shop (our guitars too) and unloaded them for bottom dollar to recoup their lease and utility payments.


Ugh. Sounds about right. He would have still had legal possession of it, so you'd definitely be able to claim your money back - but good luck trying to argue it's your property in those circumstances without a court order.


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## 777timesgod (Sep 25, 2020)

Randy said:


> Keep in mind the way BRJ is praised on those BCR forums/groups like he literally sculpted the guitars out of marble.



One of the reasons I avoid those forums is their fanboy attitude. I do remember though that in the old BC Rich Players forum the Rico family was bashed hard for their business practises.



MaxOfMetal said:


> It was originally sold as a primarily one person operation, which was believable given the output in the early 00's.



This make me worried about the BC Rich custom shop which is apparently run by Estrada (+electronics by Moser). Does anyone here follow their output and releases? Does it make sense or is there a hint that ghost building is happening there too.



SpaceDock said:


> The seller had bought a whole pile of the unfinished guitars from a storage/repo auction.



As soon as the repo man was involved this situation got worse by a mile...


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 25, 2020)

777timesgod said:


> This make me worried about the BC Rich custom shop which is apparently run by Estrada (+electronics by Moser). Does anyone here follow their output and releases? Does it make sense or is there a hint that ghost building is happening there too.



Ron is apparently the real deal if you ask around, including outside BCR circles, but there has never been a ton of transparency regarding the BCR Custom Shop in contemporary times.


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## bubingaisgod (Sep 25, 2020)

SpaceDock said:


> no, in fact I watched my guitar with my name written in the control cavity be sold on eBay and I was screwed out of $2200.




It's funny hearing someone who was close friends with him on Facebook a few days ago referring to people like you as "vultures". Someone just randomly linked that video to me and my jaw dropped.


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## Atarilovesyou (Sep 25, 2020)

I had zero clue about BRJ's reputation, I just heard of his passing. Then I heard the many stories. It's a shame anybody has to die, but after reading about how he swindled so many, it's hard to have sympathy for the guy. In particular, this story about the ebay sale of a guitar that somebody already paid for. Wow, that's a new level of wrong. I get it, I read the details, but I sure don't like it. Isn't a record of sale (receipt, paypal transfer, anything) enough to 'prove' ownership? I don't mean to beat a dead horse and this happened long enough ago that he moved on, but I've heard of people getting their goods back DECADES after theft, when they produce the proof they owned said product. Any time I have prepaid for an item, I have been given a receipt of sale. Pre-orders for goods as well, but most of my preorders are place holders...my credit card doesn't get charged until it ships. But there should have been some sort of receipt of payment in this case given. If not, we all can learn from this. I feel far worse for even one person who lost thousands of dollars to a liar and a thief than those grieving a known scoundrel. 

And this is waaaaay off topic, but speaking of ghost builders, I remember back when US Masters used to build the USA Dean guitars. They don't anymore, as we all know, but I had zero clue that was the case when I bought mine years ago. Buyer beware! For all I knew, it could have come out of a Mexican plant. Not that it did, but lesson learned for the future.


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## Señor Voorhees (Sep 25, 2020)

I have no qualms in saying that I value human life very little as there's too many of us. Don't give a fuck about him or his family. He robbed people of shitloads of hard earned cash... You don't look at Hitler, a kid toucher, or a even a robber and say "dang, that's sad that they're gone." One less piece of shit on this over populated suffering planet. May you rot in hell, you fucking crook. Fight me... A couple good guitars doesn't make up for robbing people and lying to the masses in big ways.


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## anthony.drake (Sep 26, 2020)

Fuck him and the horse that rode over him.


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## 777timesgod (Sep 30, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Ron is apparently the real deal if you ask around, including outside BCR circles, but there has never been a ton of transparency regarding the BCR Custom Shop in contemporary times.



Oh, I do not doubt Estrada's ability in building. His relation with Neal Moser and the pieces which he build so far seem solid. What I am worried is him getting in over his head and taking too many orders. Then again, the prices are crazy high in comparison with the past so logically there is less demand.

I also remembered why the BRJ thread is still open, it is to search for the guitars sold by BRJ which did not belong to him. There should be a sticky there with pics and specs. Now with his death, many may consider putting them for sale as there is interest.


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## Avedas (Oct 1, 2020)

Señor Voorhees said:


> I have no qualms in saying that I value human life very little as there's too many of us. Don't give a fuck about him or his family. He robbed people of shitloads of hard earned cash... You don't look at Hitler, a kid toucher, or a even a robber and say "dang, that's sad that they're gone." One less piece of shit on this over populated suffering planet. May you rot in hell, you fucking crook. Fight me... A couple good guitars doesn't make up for robbing people and lying to the masses in big ways.


Personally, I do believe bad deeds, if severe enough, can override even a lifetime of good deeds. There is no need to celebrate the good in that case. No sympathy from me.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 1, 2020)

He was a liar and a thief, but it's not like he molested children. So yeah, fuck him, but as much drama as I've been involved with, I'm definitely sympathetic, especially to his family.


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## narad (Oct 1, 2020)

Naturally the genocide of the jews, the molestation of children, and the stealing of guitar deposits to feed a drug habit are all comparably bad things.

Somewhere, in a crowded bar...
A: "Hey man, what brings you to town?"

B: "I'm sorry to say, but it's for a holocaust survivor reunion. I'm one of the few left. Not sure there'll be enough of us to even get together next year. And without first hand accounts, I'm worried that modern society will become disconnected from the horrors we endured."

A: "I'm sorry to hear that, but I can sympathize. You see, a few years ago my guitar deposit was stolen by a man -- you probably heard -- his name was Bernie Rico Jr. It seems every generation has its tragedies."


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 1, 2020)

narad said:


> Naturally the genocide of the jews, the molestation of children, and the stealing of guitar deposits to feed a drug habit are all comparably bad things.
> 
> Somewhere, in a crowded bar...
> A: "Hey man, what brings you to town?"
> ...



I don't think anyone is making that comparison.. but if I recall correctly there was a guy on one of the Facebook guitar groups who mentioned he had lost 25k to BRJ. Is he supposed to lay down some proverbial flowers on his grave when he gets word of Bernie's passing?

And yeah I know everyone in this thread doesn't have money sunk into this mess. But it's still a little weird to see this whole line in the sand over who you can or can't say good riddance to. I might not have been involved, so I can definitely show some empathy to his family for having to deal with his death. But there's nothing inhumane about having a negative reaction to the name. 

The dude did himself in with a bad drug habit, in that vein it's not like he was murdered in cold blood in front of his family. So if we're drawing lines here, I'll draw mine pretty far from here.


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## narad (Oct 1, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> The dude did himself in with a bad drug habit, _in that vein_ it's not like...



Oh Jonathan...


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 1, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I don't think anyone is making that comparison.. but if I recall correctly there was a guy on one of the Facebook guitar groups who mentioned he had lost 25k to BRJ. Is he supposed to lay down some proverbial flowers on his grave when he gets word of Bernie's passing?
> 
> And yeah I know everyone in this thread doesn't have money sunk into this mess. But it's still a little weird to see this whole line in the sand over who you can or can't say good riddance to. I might not have been involved, so I can definitely show some empathy to his family for having to deal with his death. But there's nothing inhumane about having a negative reaction to the name.
> 
> The dude did himself in with a bad drug habit, in that vein it's not like he was murdered in cold blood in front of his family. So if we're drawing lines here, I'll draw mine pretty far from here.



There were a few people who threw five figures at Bernie, and quite frankly, it's their own damn faults. I was practically pleading with one of those dudes to cut his losses and walk...and then he threw another few grand at it.


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## MFB (Oct 1, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There were a few people who threw five figures at Bernie, and quite frankly, it's their own damn faults. I was practically pleading with one of those dudes to cut his losses and walk...and then he threw another few grand at it.



Some times you just have to cut off your nose to spiderface


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Oct 1, 2020)

Neal Moser is a personal friend, and a luthier mentor, and I would throw 5 figures at him in a heartbeat but I wouldn't throw 2 cents at BRJR from the stories I've heard.
Neal was one of the reasons I got the job at Warmoth in 2008, he personally called and gave me a reference.


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## narad (Oct 1, 2020)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Neal Moser is a personal friend, and a luthier mentor, and I would throw 5 figures at him in a heartbeat but I wouldn't throw 2 cents at BRJR from the stories I've heard.



I mean, I wouldn't recommend throwing coins at dead people anyway. Unless it's like, for the ferryman.


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 1, 2020)

narad said:


> Oh Jonathan...



If you don't want to have that conversation then by all means, I've had family fall into and pass away from drug addiction. 

You're telling people their negative reactions are too far because this is a tragedy. And he deserves some praise for what good he even remotely did in his time alive.

It's weirdly ironic to me that you want to take this stance and stand in BRJ's corner in the discourse. People are still valid in their respective reactions.



MaxOfMetal said:


> There were a few people who threw five figures at Bernie, and quite frankly, it's their own damn faults. I was practically pleading with one of those dudes to cut his losses and walk...and then he threw another few grand at it.



I mean yeah hindsight is everything, and experience even moreso.

There's still a threshold for when someone takes that dive. And as much as me and others respect your wealth of experience. It's not surprising that people will read your warning then see Merrow/Getgood/Mansoor rave and throw cash down anyways.

I wouldn't say it's @narad's fault for ordering into the Vik 8 String Run. I wouldn't say I'm at fault for putting a deposit in with Aaron from Blackwater after receiving 2 in-stock builds from a dealer with good prospects of regular output from him.


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## narad (Oct 1, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> If you don't want to have that conversation then by all means, I've had family fall into and pass away from drug addiction.
> 
> You're telling people their negative reactions are too far because this is a tragedy. And he deserves some praise for what good he even remotely did in his time alive.
> 
> It's weirdly ironic to me that you want to take this stance and stand in BRJ's corner in the discourse. People are still valid in their respective reactions.



Nah, look at your wording.



Jonathan20022 said:


> I wouldn't say it's @narad's fault for ordering into the Vik 8 String Run. I wouldn't say I'm at fault for putting a deposit in with Aaron from Blackwater after receiving 2 in-stock builds from a dealer with good prospects of regular output from him.



I'm not sure I would agree had I put in 10+ deposits though. In some sense it's never my fault -- I'm a customer, it's not my fault if I get screwed. I don't want to victim-blame. But commonsense-wise, I'd have been an idiot to do so. And I was already idiotic enough to have had 3 deposits (but at least all three totaled like $1800 at the time, which is not as fatal a loss as $25k...).


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 1, 2020)

To clarify, I don't really think it's thier fault they got scammed, it's thier fault they got scammed for so much.


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## Fred the Shred (Oct 1, 2020)

Quite frankly, even though it's sad his family needs to go through this and had to endure his downward spiral, the one thing that will remain is that he was full of shit, deceived people left and right, and proves exactly how dangerous the combination of popular artists shilling and a scammer is to the buying public (fear not, as many of the people lying in his name are doing just fine anyway).

I hope his family finds peace.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 1, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I don't think anyone is making that comparison.. but if I recall correctly there was a guy on one of the Facebook guitar groups who mentioned he had lost 25k to BRJ. Is he supposed to lay down some proverbial flowers on his grave when he gets word of Bernie's passing?
> 
> And yeah I know everyone in this thread doesn't have money sunk into this mess. But it's still a little weird to see this whole line in the sand over who you can or can't say good riddance to. I might not have been involved, so I can definitely show some empathy to his family for having to deal with his death. But there's nothing inhumane about having a negative reaction to the name.



I dunno, I don't really get the vibe that that's what's going on here.
I don't think anyone faults anyone else for their reaction to the news, in my assessment anyway. Seems like everyone gets it. 

Personally I fall in with Max- I'm not tore up over his passing _at all_, but at the same time I don't feel..._glad_ about the news; it doesn't make me feel any better, and I can't help but feel for the people that _were_ close to him.

That said, of course I get it; I totally understand the "Nah, fuck him" crowd and wouldn't think to censure them. I'm just not on that train myself.


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## Fred the Shred (Oct 1, 2020)

I do understand both sides of the fence, personally. 

If anything, this is quite tragic. Not only does his passing inflict suffering on the people who loved him but his legacy is indelibly tied to him having taken a lot of people's hard earned cash and leaving them to rot, which isn't a great mark to leave on the world. I may find the guy to be a horrible person, but while his actions are dreadful it's not like he was molesting children or supporting genocidal systems, and as such I find it a bit much to rejoice about his passing, but I can understand someone with a horse in this race feeling some sort of closure.


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## Xaios (Oct 2, 2020)

Bernie was definitely a messed up person whose ultimate downfall was likely brought on by the same vices which caused him to become so bent. However, while I'm not one for lionizing the dead, unless a person has caused such abject horror as a murderer, rapist or nazi, the need to shout their indiscretions from the rooftops ceases at the same time they do. Once they're gone, there's not really much point continuing, because they can't be hurt or otherwise affected by it anymore, but the generally innocent people who did care about them and have been left behind still can be. So, for their sake, I say it's usually better to close the book.


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## broj15 (Oct 2, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> To clarify, I don't really think it's thier fault they got scammed, it's thier fault they got scammed for so much.



This though. People who got screwed on the BF guitars or other individual orders have a legitimate gripe, but I mean... Fool me once shame on you fuel me twice here's 25k for heroine.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2020)

broj15 said:


> Fool me once shame on you fuel me twice here's 25k for heroine.



That's t-shirt material right there.


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## JimF (Oct 2, 2020)

broj15 said:


> Fool me once shame on you fuel me twice here's 25k for heroine.



It's not very often that I full on snort-laugh at something I read online, bravo sir


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## Señor Voorhees (Oct 3, 2020)

I suppose I should clarify my opinion a little more. Probably worded a little too harshly, at least in reference to his family. I'm indifferent to anyone closely involved with him, but I don't want them to suffer. In which case I say having a critically addicted loved one scuttling around being a slimy drug addicted crook has surely worn on the people close to him more than once and they'll be better off in the long term without him. Still no fucks given, but I don't wish ill will towards the people close to him. (unless of course they're scummy people too... I don't know them so can't say.)

I also wasn't comparing varying degrees of criminal as equal, but if someone does something that hurts people and then does nothing to make it up to them, then I have no sympathy for their passing. In the examples of Hitler and kid touchers, you can't take that shit back... A crook can give back to the community, or at least TRY to give back to who they stole from. He didn't do any of those things and as such died a vile piece of scum. I'm actually not all that invested in it to be honest. I just don't see any need to say anything nice regarding the situation.

Perhaps I'm just jaded, but I am far from the mindset that every life deserves celebrating.


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## Vyn (Oct 3, 2020)

I think the point that's trying to be made is that while there's legit justification for not celebrating his life, there's no need to dogpile on it completely either.


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## fantom (Oct 4, 2020)

Anyone who had money tied up with BRJ Guitars, it might worth checking how his business and personal finances worked from a liability standpoint. A claim on his estate for deposits might be possible here. You probably have a couple of years at most to look into it before the estate is closed (the estate process intentionally gets drawn out so horses and steam boats have time to deliver messages so people can file claims).

I don't want to piss on his grave (and I'm keeping my opinions about him as a person and businessman quiet). The legal process is there for a reason. Know your rights. This is probably the last chance to take action (if that hasn't already passed).


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## oldbulllee (Feb 19, 2021)

the numbers i saw in previous posts, regarding his business adventure: that sounds like a LOT of money for an opioid addict. if he was one. i could totally relate 10 years ago. all out and buy 2 pounds of heroin. deal with the consequences when they kick in my doors.
sad.


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## steelhorse (Jul 16, 2022)

SpaceDock said:


> I had some bad business with BRJ and had pursued legal action against him. I have been avoiding this thread since reading about his death. I guess I don’t hold a grudge anymore after his passing, but I think the same vices that lead to his business failure also lead to his death. I really respect people who can hold it together over the years and not fall into these traps like BRJ. It sometimes seems like quick money, drugs, and adoration can really fuck up peoples lives and make them believe they are immune or above the rest of us. I didn’t know him personally but I think his story just gets repeated in many industries all the time. Waste of my money, waste of his talents, waste of his life, waste of our time.


I’m sorry to hear this happened to you and for the many that were apparently swindled by BRJ.

Back in his heyday with his guitars he and I were like brothers and I helped him. He was very giving and I saw many times how buyers were scamming him. I’d remind him that the quote didn’t include real deal Floyd’s or Bareknuckle pups etc. but he wouldn’t hear of it. His response was that he was going to be ok. I just want people to hear of the other side of the man I knew. Giving to a fault and opened his shop to anyone anytime. Ed was cool as well and I’ve often wondered what happened to him i how wherever he is he’s doing well. Bernie and I fell out for strictly business reasons. I told him his special runs were diluting his brand and in the end maybe that’s what happened but I couldn’t remain involved to what I saw at the time was my friend killing himself just so he could be liked and respected.


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## penguin_316 (Jul 16, 2022)

I played one sometime earlier this year at a local guitar center. It was a natural flame maple top 7 string, and despite being setup from guitar center. It played awful and had a terrible cheap quality to it. The WMI stuff today is of much better quality, then again, maybe it was a dud.

It had alot of bad routing work as well, not just where the pickups were but around the body in general. Tool marks etc. I think they wanted $2500, but I wouldn't have even bought it for $500.


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