# New Mick Thomson Jackson



## Steinmetzify (Sep 12, 2017)

http://www.jacksonguitars.com/serie...oloist-ebony-fingerboard-deep-blood-metallic/

Can't post pics cause Imgur....but $6,665.65? Really?


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## DeathCubeK (Sep 12, 2017)

The price of stuff from the Jackson Custom shop is insane. Marty's new USA sig has an MSRP of over $4,000. Depending on the builder you could have the exact same guitar built from scratch for around half that price.


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## nyxzz (Sep 12, 2017)

I'll never understand using a floyd as a fixed bridge. All the hassle without the entire point of the hassle. I'd think that would retail more for like 4k or something but that's still a little steep...


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## chipchappy (Sep 12, 2017)

nyxzz said:


> I'll never understand using a floyd as a fixed bridge. All the hassle without the entire point of the hassle. I'd think that would retail more for like 4k or something but that's still a little steep...



Until stuff like the schaller hannes came out people felt most comfortable on Floyds because of their smoothness. Makes palm muting a little more comfortable. I have a Jackson SL2H that I block for this very reason.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 12, 2017)

Mick Thomson must be on some Gene Simmons snorting chopped up money like cocaine type shit. That or maybe it's Jackson that's stoned and coming up with insane prices for shit.


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## farren (Sep 12, 2017)

Arbitrary symbolic pricing. Cute. Too bad it will probably have a real effect on street price. I love that guitar's simplicity, but put together practically the same thing for less than a quarter of that.


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## beavis2306 (Sep 12, 2017)

What's with the "genuine mahogany"? Is mahogany not mahogany?


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## xzacx (Sep 12, 2017)

That fixed Floyd is the best part of it to me. A blocked Floyd is my favorite type of bridge. All of tuning stability of a Floyd without the hassles of a trem. Would be great to see on more stuff in the future.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 12, 2017)

beavis2306 said:


> What's with the "genuine mahogany"? Is mahogany not mahogany?


Maybe they mean it's spec'd as mahogany, and will actually have mahogany instead of something mahogany-esque.


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## mlp187 (Sep 13, 2017)

chipchappy said:


> Until stuff like the schaller hannes came out people felt most comfortable on Floyds because of their smoothness. Makes palm muting a little more comfortable. I have a Jackson SL2H that I block for this very reason.


Source for those people other than yourself? Genuine question - because I don't understand what necessitates having a fixed floating bridge on a production guitar, and if this is it, well then I've learned something new.


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## mlp187 (Sep 13, 2017)

xzacx said:


> That fixed Floyd is the best part of it to me. A blocked Floyd is my favorite type of bridge. All of tuning stability of a Floyd without the hassles of a trem. Would be great to see on more stuff in the future.


Well now I want to try it! *Has new excuse to buy another guitar


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## Steinmetzify (Sep 13, 2017)

mlp187 said:


> Source for those people other than yourself? Genuine question - because I don't understand what necessitates having a fixed floating bridge on a production guitar, and if this is it, well then I've learned something new.



It's a lower profile too...back in the day you had a choice between a Tune O Matic and a Floyd and that was pretty much it. Hipshot changed the game in a big way, and the Ibanez hardtail before them. 

If you wanna give it a shot there's an MTM2 on Reverb for $250 shipped, same type of bridge.


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## Bearitone (Sep 13, 2017)

That thing looks fu**in dope

EDIT: Not "$7000" dope though. Jesus christ


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## Zado (Sep 13, 2017)

> Number of Frets: 24


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## exo (Sep 13, 2017)

Zoomed in right on the bridge trying to figure out "how" they made the Floyd "fixed" (looks like a thicker baseplate with notches rather than the typical knife edge, notches fit onto the studs, and it holds in place via tension, similar to how the tailpiece on a TOM works).....and I swear I see 4-5 spots of bare wood, like the finish was rubbed thru in the ass end of the bridge route behind the fine tuners. Might just be odd reflections, but........


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

exo said:


> Zoomed in right on the bridge trying to figure out "how" they made the Floyd "fixed" (looks like a thicker baseplate with notches rather than the typical knife edge, notches fit onto the studs, and it holds in place via tension, similar to how the tailpiece on a TOM works).....and I swear I see 4-5 spots of bare wood, like the finish was rubbed thru in the ass end of the bridge route behind the fine tuners. Might just be odd reflections, but........


Maybe they're, uh... finish flaws to add character?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

kindsage said:


> That thing looks fu**in dope
> 
> EDIT: Not "$7000" dope though. Jesus christ


It's barely 3k dope. I mean, 3k can get you a lot of dope.


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 13, 2017)

jesus 6k is prs, huber and daemoness level prices. I don't think a red soloist with a fixed floyd is worth anywhere near that. You could build a lot of warmoth copies of it for that kind of money.


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

firstly...
1) what a shame they have priced themselves out of sales. Its a nice looking guitar and would have been cool to pick one up.

2) maybe they are trying to avoid the Ibanez approach of having a few that all vary in standard and price in the range.

3) drugs are bad

4) im getting a wee bit tired of companies thinking the modern approach of "slap more $$$ on so it seems more appealing"


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> jesus 6k is prs, huber and daemoness level prices. I don't think a red soloist with a fixed floyd is worth anywhere near that. You could build a lot of warmoth copies of it for that kind of money.


With exotic woods from what I remember. Doesn't Warmoth have some pretty interesting wood choices?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> firstly...
> 1) what a shame they have priced themselves out of sales. Its a nice looking guitar and would have been cool to pick one up.
> 
> 2) maybe they are trying to avoid the Ibanez approach of having a few that all vary in standard and price in the range.
> ...


Everything is like that lately. Fucking tired of people trying to drain their fucking fans dry. KISS, Jackson, and other bands/brands, though KISS is hardly a fucking band anymore. I'm a HUGE KISS fan, but their money grubbing pisses me off to no end.


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Everything is like that lately. Fucking tired of people trying to drain their fucking fans dry. KISS, Jackson, and other bands/brands, though KISS is hardly a fucking band anymore. I'm a HUGE KISS fan, but their money grubbing pisses me off to no end.


yeah nail on the head.
custom built guitars and their popularity rising, seems to have made companies that mass produce think "guys are regularly getting customs built for thousands. Lets throw some different keywords on our next line of instruments and charge thousands more than normal, to get in on that market" "This is a custom" "Real mahogany" lol? all mahogany upto now was obviously make believe.

such idiots. People are willing to spend thousands on a completely 1 off custom instrument tailored to their exact specs, not just Micks guitar from Slipknot. Not seeing the difference is stupid.
this is dumb from jackson.
Ibanez have done this too just not as bad as this price. (unless you go LACS)


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

Oh, and off topic, but fuck Gene's box set as well as taking advantage of Eddie and Alex Van Halen in order to sell this piece of fucking garbage. I'd be willing to put good money on the fact that LESS THAN 0.01% OF GENE'S NON-ALBUM SONGS are good at all. Everything that didn't make it on an album -- and hell, in the 80s, even some that did -- is pure sewage in a New York sewer system.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah nail on the head.
> custom built guitars and their popularity rising, seems to have made companies that mass produce think "guys are regularly getting customs built for thousands. Lets throw some different keywords on our next line of instruments and charge thousands more than normal, to get in on that market" "This is a custom" "Real mahogany" lol? all mahogany upto now was obviously make believe.
> 
> such idiots. People are willing to spend thousands on a completely 1 off custom instrument tailored to their exact specs, not just Micks guitar from Slipknot. Not seeing the difference is stupid.
> ...


Well, some guitars, mostly foreign made, will be spec'd as mahogany, but will use shit mahogany like in density and tone. Which, by the way, is probably why CITES is not a big deal since I'm sure quite a few places have been replacing rosewood with something that looks and sounds sorta like rosewood for years, mostly on lower and middle tier guitars.


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Well, some guitars, mostly foreign made, will be spec'd as mahogany, but will use shit mahogany like in density and tone. Which, by the way, is probably why CITES is not a big deal since I'm sure quite a few places have been replacing rosewood with something that looks and sounds sorta like rosewood for years, mostly on lower and middle tier guitars.


yeah thats true. I bet that has been going on for years.

my 8 string in my profile pic has a rosewood looking fretboard called "Roseacer" or something, and its actually maple lol


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah thats true. I bet that has been going on for years.
> 
> my 8 string in my profile pic has a rosewood looking fretboard called "Roseacer" or something, and its actually maple lol


Isn't it like baked maple or some shit.


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Isn't it like baked maple or some shit.



yeah haha bang on. Thermally treated.
it feels and sounds nicer than rosewood to me so thats a plus. However, they have ruined the look of nice maple!. Keep the board blonde and the guitar would have looked stunning.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah haha bang on. Thermally treated.
> it feels and sounds nicer than rosewood to me so thats a plus. However, they have ruined the look of nice maple!. Keep the board blonde and the guitar would have looked stunning.


I'd love a nice maple board Kramer superstrat, but they put fucking floyds on everything, and I haven't got the time or patience to deal with it.


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I'd love a nice maple board Kramer superstrat, but they put fucking floyds on everything, and I haven't got the time or patience to deal with it.


ooh yes! kramers are awesome

p.s I hate floyds


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> ooh yes! kramers are awesome
> 
> p.s I hate floyds


As Nas once said, fuck Jay Z, and I'll say now, fuck Floyd Rose. Or at least the bridges, anyways. Absolute nuisance, those things.


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## bmth4111 (Sep 13, 2017)

Ewww. humbucker rings. This guitar looks cheap, and that's just sad. The burgundy finish with black binding just adds to the cheapy vibe.


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## Bearitone (Sep 13, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> With exotic woods from what I remember. Doesn't Warmoth have some pretty interesting wood choices?


They definitely do. They even some weird limited woods every now and then.
They even have roasted swamp ash now. Can you imagine have a roasted swamp ash guitar with a roasted maple neck?
It would be light as hell with no finish necessary due to the roasting process.


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## manu80 (Sep 13, 2017)

waiting for the import version 
still dig the color and the reverse headstock... but sometimes I'd rather find a MTM1 with the original case , which was red at the launch of the series...


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## exo (Sep 13, 2017)

I just realized why this guitar is so "meh" to me. I have a '94 MiJ Soloist XL, same color, FR bridge, but H/S/S and non reverse HS. FANTASTIC guitar, but between the quality of what I've already got, my lack of love for Slipknot, and where this is gonna street price at, I'm not attracted at all. If I had that kind of cash, I'd hunt down one of those Dave Davidson warriors.....


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

exo said:


> I just realized why this guitar is so "meh" to me. I have a '94 MiJ Soloist XL, same color, FR bridge, but H/S/S and non reverse HS. FANTASTIC guitar, but between the quality of what I've already got, my lack of love for Slipknot, and where this is gonna street price at, I'm not attracted at all. If I had that kind of cash, I'd hunt down one of those Dave Davidson warriors.....


If I had that kinda cash, I'd get a nice USA Wolfgang or two, and a 5150III.


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## exo (Sep 13, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> If I had that kinda cash, I'd get a nice USA Wolfgang or two, and a 5150III.



Honestly, after thought, I'd probably rather spend that $$$ on an ENGL SE, cab of my choice, and a couple car payments


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 13, 2017)

exo said:


> Honestly, after thought, I'd probably rather spend that $$$ on an ENGL SE, cab of my choice, and a couple car payments


Yeah, don't blame ya. Not a fan of ENGL at all, as I think they are overrated, overpriced, and don't sound all the good to my ears, but definitely see your point.


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## exo (Sep 13, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Yeah, don't blame ya. Not a fan of ENGL at all, as I think they are overrated, overpriced, and don't sound all the good to my ears, but definitely see your point.



Basically, I just realized I'm less happy with my amp situation (modeler into the FX return of a Peavey Windsor half-stack.....works fine for me, but could in all honesty be better) than I am with any of my main guitars.....and I owe that all to Mick Thompson.......


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## Mathemagician (Sep 13, 2017)

Wow. Same as the Revocation sig - another guitar that I'd love to buy but that they refuse to make a "real" model of.

I'll wait to see in an American $2-3k ever materializes.

I think Misha and Marty are like, the only recent ones to get a proper sig. and Misha has an American option. B

ut still many signs aren't available in a $1-2k "Pro" series because they don't want to "cannibalize" their $4-6k price point, lol.


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## xzacx (Sep 13, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> jesus 6k is prs, huber and daemoness level prices. I don't think a red soloist with a fixed floyd is worth anywhere near that. You could build a lot of warmoth copies of it for that kind of money.



When did Warmoth start making neck-thrus?

Price is ridiculous for sure, but it comes with a flight case and some extra junk. These are limited to like 15 anyway, and not a regular production model. This all came out at Winter NAMM, not sure why people are getting excited about it now.

Also, these are listing for $4,999, so it's not really out of line with what you'd expect to pay for any Jackson Masterbuilt Custom Shop, and not lacking in quality to the brands you mention. Obviously those would have your own specs rather than the specs from a stupid gimmick band's guitarist - I'm not saying it's a good buy, just not as shocking as people are making it out to be.


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

I just created this Custom Halo using their guitar builder. Selected the exact same specs as this sig from Jackson. I Got relatively close.

It came in at $2274


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## xzacx (Sep 13, 2017)

mlp187 said:


> Source for those people other than yourself? Genuine question - because I don't understand what necessitates having a fixed floating bridge on a production guitar, and if this is it, well then I've learned something new.



Back in the day, I used to try to avoid buying guitars with trems, just because I don't use them. But my taste in guitars tends toward brands and shapes that typically have Floyds, so I was missing out on a lot of stuff I would have otherwise wanted. At some point, I realized that you can just block a Floyd, and still take advantage of some of its features. I happen to like the physical feel of them (although I prefer top-mounted rather than recessed), and how my palm rests on it. And I love the fine tuners and benefits of having a double locking system, even if I'm not using the trem. So this is really like the coolest bridge system ever for people like me. Granted, we are probably a minority. But I think you are taking the "floating" part too literal here. It's no longer floating - it's just a fixed locking bridge shaped like a Floyd and paired with a locking nut ... if that makes more sense to think about it that way.


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## r33per (Sep 13, 2017)

steinmetzify said:


> http://www.jacksonguitars.com/serie...oloist-ebony-fingerboard-deep-blood-metallic/
> 
> Can't post pics cause Imgur....but $6,665.65? Really?


This does nothing for me.

At that price, I don't just want a good (great!) instrument, I want beautiful as well. That's just a slab of plastic-coated wood to me.

And yes: if you're going to put in a Floyd, put one in; if you're going to have a fixed bridge, put one in. That thing is just looking like something it is not setting us all up for disappointment - whether we like Floyds or not.


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## r33per (Sep 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> I just created this Custom Halo using their guitar builder. Selected the exact same specs as this sig from Jackson. I Got relatively close.
> 
> It came in at $2274


That is SOOOOOO much nicer.


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

r33per said:


> That is SOOOOOO much nicer.


I thought that haha


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## cip 123 (Sep 13, 2017)

7 grand and they can't figure that Floyd out properly?


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## KnightBrolaire (Sep 13, 2017)

xzacx said:


> When did Warmoth start making neck-thrus?
> 
> Price is ridiculous for sure, but it comes with a flight case and some extra junk. These are limited to like 15 anyway, and not a regular production model. This all came out at Winter NAMM, not sure why people are getting excited about it now.
> 
> Also, these are listing for $4,999, so it's not really out of line with what you'd expect to pay for any Jackson Masterbuilt Custom Shop, and not lacking in quality to the brands you mention. Obviously those would have your own specs rather than the specs from a stupid gimmick band's guitarist - I'm not saying it's a good buy, just not as shocking as people are making it out to be.


warmoth doesn't make neck thrus. My whole problem with the guitar is that specs wise it just seems like a regular old soloist where they blocked the floyd, which doesn't warrant it being a custom shop model imo. At 5k I'd rather get exactly what I want.


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## xzacx (Sep 13, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> warmoth doesn't make neck thrus. My whole problem with the guitar is that specs wise it just seems like a regular old soloist where they blocked the floyd, which doesn't warrant it being a custom shop model imo. At 5k I'd rather get exactly what I want.



I couldn't agree more on rather spending $5k on exactly what you want - I would too (although this is actually in the ballpark of something I'd want). I'm just saying that if that happened to be what someone wanted, that's what it would cost anyway.


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## Andromalia (Sep 13, 2017)

Not my thing, why leaving Ibanez if you endup with the equivalent of Dino's RG.


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## stevexc (Sep 13, 2017)

I haven't had a thread leave this much of a palm-shaped impression in my face in a long time.



lewis said:


> I just created this Custom Halo using their guitar builder. Selected the exact same specs as this sig from Jackson. I Got relatively close.
> 
> It came in at $2274



Now THERE'S a high price worth getting outraged about. $2 grand for a Halo? Jeeeeze.


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

stevexc said:


> I haven't had a thread leave this much of a palm-shaped impression in my face in a long time.
> 
> 
> 
> Now THERE'S a high price worth getting outraged about. $2 grand for a Halo? Jeeeeze.


go away and happily spunk $6666 on the Jackson then.
Meanwhile we will all be facepalming ourselves whilst you do it.


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## xzacx (Sep 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> go away and happily spunk $6666 on the Jackson then.
> Meanwhile we will all be facepalming ourselves whilst you do it.



At least he'd get a good, if overpriced guitar. You'd still be left with a $2k+ Halo.


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## stevexc (Sep 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> go away and happily spunk $6666 on the Jackson then.
> Meanwhile we will all be facepalming ourselves whilst you do it.



Hit a sore spot, did I?

I don't know where I even implied I have any interest in buying it. I just think the sheer hyperbole running rampant in this thread is absolutely hilarious. $5 grand for a limited edition, high-end Jackson is a bit on the high end for sure, but come on. It's not far out of line with any other Jackson Masterbuilt guitar. And saying someone else could build it for cheaper is comparing apples to oranges.


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## cip 123 (Sep 13, 2017)

For the price that costs....couldn't you get an actual Jackson custom shop?


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## stevexc (Sep 13, 2017)

cip 123 said:


> For the price that costs....couldn't you get an actual Jackson custom shop?



Custom colour, hardtail floyd and maple/rosewood/maple neck may drive up the price. I count about $6300 MSRP for an otherwise similar custom shop. So price would be about the same, but then you lose out on the whole point of buying a limited edition collectible.


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## bnzboy (Sep 13, 2017)

cip 123 said:


> For the price that costs....couldn't you get an actual Jackson custom shop?



I think the price reflects Mick's artistic/marketable value set by Jackson whether you agree or not; this model is aimed at hardcore..hardcore Slipknot fans. It is a production model so I am assuming the wait time won't be as long as the custom shop route. Plus this model will always have that Mick's signature/name meaning that you are purchasing that artist's name value. I mean when I purchased Jim Root strat of course I thought about other reasonable ways to get a similarly spec'd guitar at a lower price range but it all came down to the fact that I WANT to get Jim's sig model and I did not want it any other way.


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

stevexc said:


> Hit a sore spot, did I?
> 
> I don't know where I even implied I have any interest in buying it. I just think the sheer hyperbole running rampant in this thread is absolutely hilarious. $5 grand for a limited edition, high-end Jackson is a bit on the high end for sure, but come on. It's not far out of line with any other Jackson Masterbuilt guitar. And saying someone else could build it for cheaper is comparing apples to oranges.


where did i say i was buying a Halo?


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## lewis (Sep 13, 2017)

xzacx said:


> At least he'd get a good, if overpriced guitar. You'd still be left with a $2k+ Halo.


i never said I was buying a Halo.


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## stevexc (Sep 13, 2017)

lewis said:


> where did i say i was buying a Halo?



I... didn't assume, let alone say that you were? I took that post exactly how you intended it - as an illustrative example of how much a guitar with the same (similar) specs would cost. My point was that regardless of how similar the specs were I do not believe the Halo would be an equivalent quality guitar, and that given the reviews of seen of various Halo guitars not worth the price.


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## Rawkmann (Sep 13, 2017)

I'm a little surprised not many people have discussed how expensive Jackson guitars have gotten since the Fender buyout happened. I have old Musicians Friend Catalogs from like 1996 where You could get a USA Rhoads or Soloist for $1200. I special ordered a brand new Jackson Warrior in a custom color in '03 and it was only $1600 out the door, the same guitar now would be over $3K. I think Jackson prices have gone up way more than any other brand in recent years.


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## xzacx (Sep 13, 2017)

bnzboy said:


> It is a production model so I am assuming the wait time won't be as long as the custom shop route.



But it's not a production model. It's a limited edition of 15 guitars masterbuilt in the Custom Shop, which is part of the high cost. There's no wait time now that they're built - there are 3 or 4 I've seen still available.



Rawkmann said:


> I'm a little surprised not many people have discussed how expensive Jackson guitars have gotten since the Fender buyout happened.



No denying that, which is why this isn't a shocking price, and more what you'd expect.


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## bnzboy (Sep 13, 2017)

xzacx said:


> But it's not a production model. It's a limited edition of 15 guitars masterbuilt in the Custom Shop, which is part of the high cost. There's no wait time now that they're built - there are 3 or 4 I've seen still available.



Oh I had no idea it was a limited run. In that case it makes even more sense for Jackson to get the most profit out of their limited production process. From the business process perspective, there would be a huge cost difference between mass production vs limited production. Funny how this limited run made me feel when I ordered my Holcomb PRS. I was thinking "It's now or never". These companies surely know how to seduce fans.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 13, 2017)

From what I've heard (not sure if it's true) this is just a limited model and there would be a full-fledged sig model later on with a legit fixed-bridge Floyd, instead of a MacGyvered hardtailed floating Floyd.

Also, this is old news. They released this back in January for NAMM.



lewis said:


> I just created this Custom Halo using their guitar builder. Selected the exact same specs as this sig from Jackson. I Got relatively close.
> 
> It came in at $2274





lewis said:


> go away and happily spunk $6666 on the Jackson then.
> Meanwhile we will all be facepalming ourselves whilst you do it.



Actually it's going to be around $4500 - $5000, which is how much you would expect to spend on a higher-end custom shop guitar.

But I still wouldn't bay $2300 for a fucking Halo.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 13, 2017)

derp


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## mastapimp (Sep 14, 2017)

You guys keep calling it a 6K or 7K guitar....in reality you can probably get it for much cheaper and it'll be a masterbuilt guitar out of the custom shop (probably cheaper than what it would cost to get a one-off).

My experience with these Jackson and Charvel guitars is that you can get them at about 35-40 percent off the listed retail, especially if you preorder them (or they've been sitting around - my case with the GG charvel). 

Examples: 

I pre-ordered one of the Dave Davidson warriors through a dealer and paid $3900 although the retail on the Jackson website was around $6500 (~40% off retail). 

I pre-ordered my Broderick soloist 7 for $2100 when I think the retail was listed at $3700 at the time (~40% off retail). 

Pulled the trigger on a Charvel Guthrie Govan Birdseye Top for $2700 back when they retailed for $5400 (~50% off retail - it's since gone down to $4100 with the 2017 models). At the time, I shopped around and saw other dealers advertising this guitar around $3,000-$3,3000 (~40% off retail).

It all depends on what the dealer is going to ask up front and how much lower they're willing to go. The number listed on Jackson's website shouldn't even be a starting point. This Mick Thompson guitar will likely go for $4-4.5K once they hit the dealers or a few hundred less if you pre-order through a dealer. It also helps to shop around...some dealers will start high and won't budge...take a look at the Davidson warrior still up for sale through tundra music (been listed on ebay for 12 months at over 5K). I believe all the other dealers I contacted sold this model without much issue and at a much lower price. 

For me, I don't go around claiming my jacksons/charvels are 4K, 5K, 6K instruments because that's the MSRP on the website...I value them at what I paid, which is much less. I don't go around claiming my Regius is a 9K guitar...it's just a numbers game to make it seem like you're getting more worth than what you put in. No one will ever pay $6,666 for this Mick Thompson guitar...it's just a tool to make the consumer think they've saved money or the dealer is making you a great offer.

As for the people complaining about the base prices for the USA standard models, I don't think they've jumped up too much based on inflation. I have a USA SL1 (pile of skulls paintjob) I grabbed from musicians friend back in 1997 for about $1,750. Fast forward 20 years and the adjustment for inflation brings that to around $2670 - on par with what the SL1s are going for today from musicians friend and other online dealers.


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## marcwormjim (Sep 14, 2017)

Ah, what people will pay for a pile of skulls.


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## austink (Sep 14, 2017)

manu80 said:


> waiting for the import version
> still dig the color and the reverse headstock... but sometimes I'd rather find a MTM1 with the original case , which was red at the launch of the series...



https://reverb.com/item/2810673-ibanez-mtm1-mick-thomson-signature-2010-blood-red


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## Sogradde (Sep 14, 2017)

This thread reminds me of the kid that planned on spending a hilarious amount of cash on a lefty of misha's sig. What happened to that kid anyway?


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## marcwormjim (Sep 14, 2017)

http://www.sevenstring.org/members/wildmandagod.86646/


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 14, 2017)

Sogradde said:


> This thread reminds me of the kid that planned on spending a hilarious amount of cash on a lefty of misha's sig. What happened to that kid anyway?


Uh... did he get laughed off of the forums?


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## GuitarBizarre (Sep 14, 2017)

Rawkmann said:


> I'm a little surprised not many people have discussed how expensive Jackson guitars have gotten since the Fender buyout happened. I have old Musicians Friend Catalogs from like 1996 where You could get a USA Rhoads or Soloist for $1200. I special ordered a brand new Jackson Warrior in a custom color in '03 and it was only $1600 out the door, the same guitar now would be over $3K. I think Jackson prices have gone up way more than any other brand in recent years.



Adjusting for inflation, $1200 in 1996 would be $1872 now. 

Currently an RR1 is $2,699.99 at sweetwater, so that's an adjusted price increase of 44%

It's a lot but it's also not as much as people make it sound.


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## marcwormjim (Sep 14, 2017)

It should be 6 dollars, and inflatable.


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## manu80 (Sep 14, 2017)

austink said:


> https://reverb.com/item/2810673-ibanez-mtm1-mick-thomson-signature-2010-blood-red



Hi
Saw that one but custom fees /shippingetc... it's gonna be too much
thx though


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## HighGain510 (Sep 14, 2017)

It's been brought up multiple times but people keep glossing over and talking about MSRP as if it's the actual price. 


These run $5K, there were only 15 made and they were master-built by the Jackson CS pros, it comes with a hefty ATA case, etc. Jackson Custom Shop prices are high and have been for a while, but this is on par with any other Limited Edition Master-built run. 

Keep in mind, Ibanez put out the limited run of M8M signature models built by the Sugi team a while back and those were $6K with a regular tolex hardshell case. Some folks made a stink about the price, others said "that seems perfectly normal for an artist sig built by their highest tier builders!"... it's the exact same thing here.  Stuff like this is always aimed at the diehard fans and collectors who either sell everything they have to buy one guitar or will be adding it to a collection of other nice gear. 

Personally, I dig the specs (the side bar markers are pretty cool, wouldn't mind those on a Soloist actually) but I'm not a Slipknot fanboy and I don't love it enough to think it's a "$5K-cool" model. I don't begrudge the fans or collectors who do though. 


Side-note: The whole "well I could buy a similarly-spec'd Halo for $2K+!!!" argument is beyond laughable. They are not even remotely comparable and clearly not in the same quality range. That's like trying to say "I could buy a Honda Civic for $20K, it's practically the same as the Acura NSX! They're both cars and they both have engines, why would anyone spend all that extra money?!"


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## Power2theMetal (Sep 14, 2017)

I'm just wondering why they went with $6,666.65 vs. $6,666.66... I can't be the only one lost on that, am I? Definitely not $6500 worth of guitar, I'd rather order a barebones Carillion AND a Daemoness for that!


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## bnzboy (Sep 14, 2017)

Power2theMetal said:


> I'm just wondering why they went with $6,666.65 vs. $6,666.66... I can't be the only one lost on that, am I? Definitely not $6500 worth of guitar, I'd rather order a barebones Carillion AND a Daemoness for that!



I think six 6s (two 666s) may seem too.. Heretic


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## prlgmnr (Sep 14, 2017)

If you have two 666s they cancel each other out.


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## prlgmnr (Sep 14, 2017)

It's simple maths/demonic calculus.


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## Power2theMetal (Sep 14, 2017)

bnzboy said:


> I think six 6s (two 666s) may seem too.. Heretic


Mr. Thomson to Jackson "I want this guitar to be as metal as possible, Blood red, Floyd Rose, pointy headstock, and we need to have it be as evil as possible. The MSRP needs to be 2 sets of sixes... or $6666.66" 
Jackson to Mr. Thomson "I'm sorry, sir... but, I'm afraid that's just too evil! We have to take a penny off, and make it $6666.65." Mr. Thomson to Jackson "...SIGH... you're completely right, at $6666.66, it just wouldn't sell"


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## electriceye (Sep 14, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> You guys keep calling it a 6K or 7K guitar....in reality you can probably get it for much cheaper and it'll be a masterbuilt guitar out of the custom shop (probably cheaper than what it would cost to get a one-off).
> 
> My experience with these Jackson and Charvel guitars is that you can get them at about 35-40 percent off the listed retail, especially if you preorder them (or they've been sitting around - my case with the GG charvel).
> 
> ...



Yes, people need to understand that MSRP is a list price and NOT what anyone will pay. Regardless, even making this a $4-5k axe is f;ing insane. Hell, I'll build everyone here the same thing for $1500 each!!


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 14, 2017)

Hmmmm reverse headstock, blank ebony board, mahogany body/neck, fixed bridge, active pickups... 

My $350 Jackson COW6 gets me halfway there.


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## ThePIGI King (Sep 14, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> But I still wouldn't bay $2300 for a fucking Halo.



Not to derail any further, but from what I've seen, there's been a number of good reviews of Halo in the last year or so. ERGNerds did a review, as well as Dean Murphy (he might have done two reviews), as well as multiple threads scattered across the web.


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## lewis (Sep 15, 2017)

ThePIGI King said:


> Not to derail any further, but from what I've seen, there's been a number of good reviews of Halo in the last year or so. ERGNerds did a review, as well as Dean Murphy (he might have done two reviews), as well as multiple threads scattered across the web.


this!
not sure what all the complaining about is.


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## GuitarBizarre (Sep 15, 2017)

lewis said:


> this!
> not sure what all the complaining about is.


It takes time to outgrow a reputation for selling badly made shit, and Halo thoroughly earned such a reputation. 

Until theres a heap more good reviews, versus the existing bad reviews, people are justified in being sceptical.


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## lewis (Sep 15, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> It takes time to outgrow a reputation for selling badly made shit, and Halo thoroughly earned such a reputation.
> 
> Until theres a heap more good reviews, versus the existing bad reviews, people are justified in being sceptical.


how is that any different to Gibson, the recent Ibanez's, loads of custom builds that people love getting, kiesels and any other?.

every company has made lemons. It seems to me that some companies get more of a free ride than others despite being guilty of the same shit.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 15, 2017)

Are Halos seriously made in China? At those prices? Someone must be fucking high to pay for that.


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## GuitarBizarre (Sep 15, 2017)

lewis said:


> how is that any different to Gibson, the recent Ibanez's, loads of custom builds that people love getting, kiesels and any other?.
> 
> every company has made lemons. It seems to me that some companies get more of a free ride than others despite being guilty of the same shit.


Every company makes lemons, but when for the first few years of its existence your company ONLY seems to make lemons, you can't expect to turn that around in a day.

This is why companoes rebrand or change name rather than fight the first impressions of the public. How many of those oldschool japanese and chinese manufacturers from the 70's are STILL considered to he second-tier builders today despite having been putting out quality product for decades?

People don't forget a brand's reputation easily. It takes time. That's why Gibson's brand is still worth something and Halo's is worth jack shit. Maybe in 20 years that'll flip if gibson's buyers don't turn the quality around and Halo's team doesn't fall back into old ways.


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## GuitarBizarre (Sep 15, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Are Halos seriously made in China? At those prices? Someone must be fucking high to pay for that.


There's nothing wrong with chinese manufacturing. Plenty of extremely high tech industry is in china producing bleeding edge product.

It just so happens to be the same country where labour is cheap and working conditions can be shitty, so you get a full spectrum of quality and not just the high end, like you would in a country that regulates industry differently.


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## lewis (Sep 15, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> There's nothing wrong with chinese manufacturing. Plenty of extremely high tech industry is in china producing bleeding edge product.
> 
> It just so happens to be the same country where labour is cheap and working conditions can be shitty, so you get a full spectrum of quality and not just the high end, like you would in a country that regulates industry differently.


and again, how many people have played these "chinese built guitars" before instantly deeming them garbage?

At least play a few first before telling everyone online they are going to be garbage. So many people are guilty of that.


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## Chokey Chicken (Sep 15, 2017)

Yeah, halo started off poorly and people remember them for that. Kiesel has generally made good instruments, as did Gibson. Only (semi) recently did they start throwing a wrench in their good names, so people still give them a chance. Which is why it'd be in Jeff's best interest to pick up the customer service slack.

I've played a couple halo guitars and they weren't great. They weren't trash, but definitely not worth the price. This was however a little while ago, so who knows? I know I'm not willing to gamble my money to find out.


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## Carcaridon (Sep 15, 2017)

I'd have grabbed this in a heartbeat if it was under $4k. $4999 is just too much. I'll keep an eye out for it on the used market someday, or maybe the production line will be sweet.


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo (Sep 15, 2017)

nyxzz said:


> I'll never understand using a floyd as a fixed bridge. All the hassle without the entire point of the hassle. I'd think that would retail more for like 4k or something but that's still a little steep...



The tuning stability is the attraction, I have to assume, especially for a touring band, too. But now the Evertune exists... Why not use that? If I was fortunate enough to be a touring musician, I sure as shit would be taking advantage of the Evertune.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 15, 2017)

OliOliver said:


> The tuning stability is the attraction, I have to assume, especially for a touring band, too. But now the Evertune exists... Why not use that? If I was fortunate enough to be a touring musician, I sure as shit would be taking advantage of the Evertune.



There's really no hassle with using a Floyd Rose when you have multiple guitars for multiple tunings, and a tech to do your string changes.  Honestly, using a fixed Floyd gets rid of like... 90% of the hassle of owning a Floyd.

And as you said, impeccable tuning stability. Plus, a Floyd Rose just feels good to palm mute on. Very flat and smooth.

Also, I've heard of sustain issues with an Evertune. With this setup, the sustain issues are much less even compared to a regular Floyd Rose, since you're only routing out the wood to fit the bridge in and the sustain bar. No routing necessary to make the bridge move around freely.




GuitarBizarre said:


> It takes time to outgrow a reputation for selling badly made shit, and Halo thoroughly earned such a reputation.
> 
> Until theres a heap more good reviews, versus the existing bad reviews, people are justified in being sceptical.



Exactly. 5 - 10 years of bad reviews doesn't make up for 1 - 2 years of okay reviews.



lewis said:


> how is that any different to Gibson, the recent Ibanez's, loads of custom builds that people love getting, kiesels and any other?.
> 
> every company has made lemons. It seems to me that some companies get more of a free ride than others despite being guilty of the same shit.



And all of those guitars are getting rightfully bashed.  Seriously, half the time you mention Gibson and Kiesel here, you get people bashing them. And don't forget about Indo Ibbys, there's a lot of haters of the Iron Labels here.

And as I said before, Halo has had YEARS of bad reputation. Releasing lemon after lemon. That reputation doesn't disappear because of a couple of cherry-picked guitars sent to reviewers.


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## marcwormjim (Sep 15, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> sustain issues are much less minimal



This is what sold me.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 15, 2017)

marcwormjim said:


> This is what sold me.


I just re-read what I posted and got that sounds fucking weird.


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## purpledc (Sep 15, 2017)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Yeah, halo started off poorly and people remember them for that. Kiesel has generally made good instruments, as did Gibson. Only (semi) recently did they start throwing a wrench in their good names, so people still give them a chance. Which is why it'd be in Jeff's best interest to pick up the customer service slack.
> 
> I've played a couple halo guitars and they weren't great. They weren't trash, but definitely not worth the price. This was however a little while ago, so who knows? I know I'm not willing to gamble my money to find out.


I don't know man. In my experience Gibson has been spotty on and off its entire lifespan.


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## Chokey Chicken (Sep 16, 2017)

purpledc said:


> I don't know man. In my experience Gibson has been spotty on and off its entire lifespan.



Their early/vintage stuffs were always pretty good. They're well known for a reason. I actually like their newer stuff too, but they hit a pretty gnarly rough spot in the early 2000's, but let us not beat that dead horse. 

I'm surprised Jackson is aiming so high with his sig. With Misha it sorta made sense since the whole crowd that's into him being gear whores. Having a high end/high priced guitar made sense there. But slipknot is like a poor angsty teen vent. Fewer people who really care about their gear are going to be into it. I wonder what Ibanez's sales were like on thier higher end models. I can't imagine they were super great.


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## lewis (Sep 16, 2017)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Their early/vintage stuffs were always pretty good. They're well known for a reason. I actually like their newer stuff too, but they hit a pretty gnarly rough spot in the early 2000's, but let us not beat that dead horse.
> 
> I'm surprised Jackson is aiming so high with his sig. With Misha it sorta made sense since the whole crowd that's into him being gear whores. Having a high end/high priced guitar made sense there. But slipknot is like a poor angsty teen vent. Fewer people who really care about their gear are going to be into it. I wonder what Ibanez's sales were like on thier higher end models. I can't imagine they were super great.


Were ibanez ever selling mick signatures with $6000 prices attached with $4500+ being realistic?.
I honestly cant remember. Does anyone know.


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## mastapimp (Sep 16, 2017)

lewis said:


> Were ibanez ever selling mick signatures with $6000 prices attached with $4500+ being realistic?.
> I honestly cant remember. Does anyone know.


You guys are forgetting that this isn't a production model, it's "limited edition" from the custom shop just like the Dave Davidson Warrior, special edition lamb of god dominion signature, and the reverse headstock PC1 DX. They're making 15 out of the custom shop...the misha juggernauts were production models. I'm sure if they made a special edition custom shop signature for misha it would run the same price tag as these other limited editions. 

As far as Ibanez, the last I can remember is the limited run out of one of their Japanese shops for the meshuggah M8M guitar, and those went for 5-6K street price. Not too far off from what Jackson is doing with these special runs.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 16, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> You guys are forgetting that this isn't a production model, it's "limited edition" from the custom shop just like the Dave Davidson Warrior, special edition lamb of god dominion signature, and the reverse headstock PC1 DX. They're making 15 out of the custom shop...the misha juggernauts were production models. I'm sure if they made a special edition custom shop signature for misha it would run the same price tag as these other limited editions.
> 
> As far as Ibanez, the last I can remember is the limited run out of one of their Japanese shops for the meshuggah M8M guitar, and those went for 5-6K street price. Not too far off from what Jackson is doing with these special runs.


You sound like a KISS fan trying to justify Gene's overpriced box set with a price of anywhere from 2k-50k depending upon whether you want a shitty group meet n greet, or to have him bring it to your fucking door and hang out for two hours, probably clogging the toilet in the process. "But it's LIMITED! Totally worth the astronomical price tag!" Does it better your quality of life in ratio with the price tag? Probably not, especially when compared to the rest of your guitar collection, so I still don't see the point. You could get another Japan or USA made Jackson and slap some Mick Thomson pickups in and probably save yourself a large chunk of cash.


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## mastapimp (Sep 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> You sound like a KISS fan trying to justify Gene's overpriced box set with a price of anywhere from 2k-50k depending upon whether you want a shitty group meet n greet, or to have him bring it to your fucking door and hang out for two hours, probably clogging the toilet in the process. "But it's LIMITED! Totally worth the astronomical price tag!" Does it better your quality of life in ratio with the price tag? Probably not, especially when compared to the rest of your guitar collection, so I still don't see the point. You could get another Japan or USA made Jackson and slap some Mick Thomson pickups in and probably save yourself a large chunk of cash.


I'm just explaining why it's priced that high. You can call it whatever you want (Jackson's site labels them as special editions). It's a guitar out of the custom shop by master builders (a fact that I think is overlooked by many of the comments)...it's going to cost a lot of money.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 16, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> I'm just explaining why it's priced that high. You can call it whatever you want (Jackson's site labels them as special editions). It's a guitar out of the custom shop by master builders (a fact that I think is overlooked by many of the comments)...it's going to cost a lot of money.


I understand that, but I don't think a guitar that appeals to Slipknot fans understands their target audience when they put a 4-5k price tag on it. And sure, it's probably worth that, but it's only worth what the target audience is willing to pay for it.

But at least it's not like the 90s Ace Frehley sig Gibson produced. They only made 300 [I think it was 300 anyways], and of those, a handful [~30] never even got released because they were such garbage upon completion and got sent to the scrap heap. Sounds fine and dandy, right? I mean, only the quality ones get put out, and that only makes them rarer, so all should be good...

Wrong. They put whatever the fuck pickups in the guitars because Dimarzio sent them whatever to fulfill the order, so some may or may not be Super Distortions, and should you want to remove the incorrect pickups to put the right ones in, you've just devalued a collectible, rare guitar. To make this even more frustrating, the cheaper versions had the correct specs. Even weirder, the prototypes they made for Ace were based on a different version of the LP [maybe a Custom or something, whereas he I think uses a Studio or perhaps vice versa]. Maybe these are the kind of issues that Brent of Mastodon had when he was working on his sig with Epiphone. If memory serves, there was some talk about him having issues with Epiphone and the release of his sig V was kinda bittersweet.

So, at least they are likely to do this right, but I still think it's way too much for a guitar that mostly appeals to angsty teens. Whomever said it prior was right on target when they mentioned that Periphery appeals to people wanting a high end/custom level guitar, so it makes sense having a guitar at that price point, but for a guitarist from Slipknot... eh.


----------



## mastapimp (Sep 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I understand that, but I don't think a guitar that appeals to Slipknot fans understands their target audience when they put a 4-5k price tag on it. And sure, it's probably worth that, but it's only worth what the target audience is willing to pay for it.
> 
> But at least it's not like the 90s Ace Frehley sig Gibson produced. They only made 300 [I think it was 300 anyways], and of those, a handful [~30] never even got released because they were such garbage upon completion and got sent to the scrap heap. Sounds fine and dandy, right? I mean, only the quality ones get put out, and that only makes them rarer, so all should be good...
> 
> ...


You make some good points about target audience, but this guitar might go to somebody that isn't even a fan of Mick or Slipknot. It's an aggressive metal guitar that probably appeals to a number of people outside of the slipknot universe. This version doesn't have a giant "SEVEN" carved into the fretboard (or an obnoxious "P" like the bulb edition jug). An "angsty teen" edition may come later in a production model that really does a better job targeting mick's/slipknot's fan base and will be significantly cheaper. In fact, he mentions that he's still working with Jackson for upcoming models in a video promoting his new sig.

I purchased a guitar from a similar limited Jackson run last year. I got the Dave Davidson warrior because it appealed to me as a world class metal instrument, not because it was marketed to Revocation fans (or the Kiss Army you were alluding to earlier). I dug the shape, finish, specs, and was shopping around for another 7-string with a Floyd at the time and I had a good relationship with the dealer, so it all worked out. Because they were committed to a limited run, it meant the wait time would be 6 months instead of 2 years for a one-off guitar out of the custom shop. If the timing didn't work out, i'd have probably ordered a different guitar, "special edition" label or not...it just happened to pop up while I was in the market for new gear. Also, there's no revocation logo nor is dave's name anywhere on the guitar - you'd never know it was a signature instrument (hence the broader appeal). 

I think I've read a few NGD posts about players picking up the PRS Holcomb because it was a longer scale USA PRS with a cool finish, not because they were periphery fan-boys. I recently saw one guy on this forum repaint his Holcomb with an 80's style tiger stripe motif (probably to the dismay of many die-hard periphery fans).


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Sep 16, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> You make some good points about target audience, but this guitar might go to somebody that isn't even a fan of Mick or Slipknot. It's an aggressive metal guitar that probably appeals to a number of people outside of the slipknot universe. This version doesn't have a giant "SEVEN" carved into the fretboard (or an obnoxious "P" like the bulb edition jug). An "angsty teen" edition may come later in a production model that really does a better job targeting mick's/slipknot's fan base and will be significantly cheaper. In fact, he mentions that he's still working with Jackson for upcoming models in a video promoting his new sig.


You may be right. I guess we'll see.



mastapimp said:


> (or the Kiss Army you were alluding to earlier).


The thing about Ace is that he's moderately liked outside of the KISS universe. I've had friends who didn't like KISS, but thought highly of Ace, and enjoyed his 1978 solo album.



mastapimp said:


> I think I've read a few NGD posts about players picking up the PRS Holcomb because it was a longer scale USA PRS with a cool finish, not because they were periphery fan-boys. I recently saw one guy on this forum repaint his Holcomb with an 80's style tiger stripe motif (probably to the dismay of many die-hard periphery fans).


I think, and I mean no offense to Mr. Mansoor, that Mark Holcomb might just be, given a few more years, the Ace of the group. Not in terms of being a fuck up or any of his extracurricular activities, but rather that he's well liked outside of the band's sphere. I'm not exactly a fan of the band, but I think Mark is pretty cool. Also, I love the tiger stripe finish if you're talking about one like the ones Lynch used.


----------



## A-Branger (Sep 16, 2017)

Im a bit visual guy too. So at least with the Bulb I could justify the price with the construction/features/stain colors, But for (in my eyes) a plain color with a flat top, no fancy woods, "generic" guitar, it doesnt justify the even higher price price


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## Chokey Chicken (Sep 16, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> You guys are forgetting that this isn't a production model, it's "limited edition" from the custom shop just like the Dave Davidson Warrior, special edition lamb of god dominion signature, and the reverse headstock PC1 DX. They're making 15 out of the custom shop...the misha juggernauts were production models. I'm sure if they made a special edition custom shop signature for misha it would run the same price tag as these other limited editions.
> 
> As far as Ibanez, the last I can remember is the limited run out of one of their Japanese shops for the meshuggah M8M guitar, and those went for 5-6K street price. Not too far off from what Jackson is doing with these special runs.



I'm absolutely aware of WHY they cost so much... I'm just wondering if Mick is worth the effort. I know he's a popular artist and all, but his biggest fans don't seem to be gear nerds willing to drop 4k+ on a signature. I could very well be wrong though!

Regarding the ibanez models, no I don't think they had super high priced models. I was curious what the sales figures on the expensive models were. (the premium models as opposed to the $700 duncan designed equipped models.) They clearly sold some, I'm just wondering if they sold enough where it would make sense to offer a limited 4k model for the die hard fans.


----------



## prlgmnr (Sep 16, 2017)

I'm sure some of 1999's "angsty teens" have made enough money since then to buy a custom shop guitar.


----------



## lewis (Sep 16, 2017)

I bet even die hard Mick fans who buy this, after 3 months would be like "yeah, this wasnt worth it"


----------



## purpledc (Sep 16, 2017)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Their early/vintage stuffs were always pretty good. They're well known for a reason. I actually like their newer stuff too, but they hit a pretty gnarly rough spot in the early 2000's, but let us not beat that dead horse.
> 
> I'm surprised Jackson is aiming so high with his sig. With Misha it sorta made sense since the whole crowd that's into him being gear whores. Having a high end/high priced guitar made sense there. But slipknot is like a poor angsty teen vent. Fewer people who really care about their gear are going to be into it. I wonder what Ibanez's sales were like on thier higher end models. I can't imagine they were super great.



I have to agree. I could see a $666.00 professional series sig. But this I just cant see appealing to many people at all. I mean even if I lived In iowa, and slipknot was my favorite band and I just won the powerball, its still a nope.


----------



## Señor Voorhees (Sep 16, 2017)

prlgmnr said:


> I'm sure some of 1999's "angsty teens" have made enough money since then to buy a custom shop guitar.



Now the question is just a matter of are those kids from the late 90's really that into slipknot still that they want a relatively simple looking guitar for crazy custom prices, or would they spend that money on an actual custom?

If I were a fan from the olden days, I'd be more inclined to find one of those gaudy "seven" or "hate" guitars. (I actually own one of the cheap ibbys with the "seven" inlay for the lulz.) Bonus points if you get one of the Warlocks. Fuck those were ugly.


----------



## Splenetic (Sep 16, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I think, and I mean no offense to Mr. Mansoor, that Mark Holcomb might just be, given a few more years, the Ace of the group. Not in terms of being a fuck up or any of his extracurricular activities, but rather that he's well liked outside of the band's sphere. I'm not exactly a fan of the band, but I think Mark is pretty cool. Also, I love the tiger stripe finish if you're talking about one like the ones Lynch used.



I think I may be with you on that one. I generally don't like their music at all, but having seen a few of his interviews around release time of his signature model, he does seem like a cool dude.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 16, 2017)

lewis said:


> Were ibanez ever selling mick signatures with $6000 prices attached with $4500+ being realistic?.
> I honestly cant remember. Does anyone know.



No, but they had the $6000 (not MSRP, actual sale price) M8M and Steve Vai sigs, which was made in a custom shop. And their $4000+ Jcustoms. 


Chokey Chicken said:


> Their early/vintage stuffs were always pretty good. They're well known for a reason.



People don't talk about this period much, but apparently the late '80s - early 2000s is also Gibsons 2nd best period. Supposed to be some pretty kickass-quality stuff from this era. Probably because they were trying to get out of the rut they had in the '80s


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## purpledc (Sep 17, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> You guys are forgetting that this isn't a production model, it's "limited edition" from the custom shop just like the Dave Davidson Warrior, special edition lamb of god dominion signature, and the reverse headstock PC1 DX. They're making 15 out of the custom shop...the misha juggernauts were production models. I'm sure if they made a special edition custom shop signature for misha it would run the same price tag as these other limited editions.
> 
> As far as Ibanez, the last I can remember is the limited run out of one of their Japanese shops for the meshuggah M8M guitar, and those went for 5-6K street price. Not too far off from what Jackson is doing with these special runs.



One thing you seem to be forgetting. Mishas builds are usually a lot more involved. Fancy woods and masked binding techniques and inlays. There really isnt much that is custom on this guitar except the custom shop logo and micks cut. My point being if you went to the custom shop and specd this guitar out before mick was even on the radar at jackson would a red soloist with no inlays and a reverse headstock cost $6,666. I doubt it. Imho its a very very basic guitar for lots and lots of money. It isnt the first time jackson has had a head scratcher, but its a head scratcher to me nonetheless.


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## erdiablo666 (Sep 17, 2017)

Another pro of using a Floyd as a "fixed" bridge - Fine tuners!


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## oracles (Sep 17, 2017)

I really don't get all the furore here, this is a limited production item, built by the head luthiers at the custom shop, and the price directly reflects that. It's no different than the Dave Davidson sig Warrior, or the M8M builds mentioned previously, and those were met with considerably less upset than this. Neither of those had extravagant tops or really fancy anything, they're fairly stripped down, straight forward guitars built by world class shops.

Yes you can buy your own custom for this price point, but that's not the point of these guitars. They're collector items, and your insert brand name custom isn't going to have that, no matter who you buy it from.

Everyones pricing has gone up. Premiums are being listed in stores now for what Prestiges used to sell for, all these major guitar brands are competing with themselves on the used market. This is the new reality of buying high end, new guitars built by production shops. Check the thread below this one about semi custom USA ESP's, and see what $4k is getting you there.

Jackson's listed MSRP has always been high, but I'm yet to see anyone pay close to it in actuality. Dealers are fairly consistently 20-30% lower than that, and then some depending on the dealer.


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## oracles (Sep 17, 2017)

As for the Halo mention, go out and buy one. If it's even half as good as these are, consider yourself lucky because you've probably found the best guitar Halo has or ever will build. They thoroughly deserve the reputation they have, they've churned out shitplanks consistently for years, changed management more times than I can count, created fake profiles to leave glowing reviews on forum after forum of one fucked up guitar after another, and by and large, that hasn't changed. They still build terrible instruments. Granted, they aren't alone in this, but that doesn't absolve them of any guilt either.

I've played Dean Murphy's Halo 8 string when he sent it to Paul Ozz to review. It wasn't the worst guitar I've ever played, but it WAS flawed, and it was a genuinely uncomfortable guitar to play. The neck is gigantic in every dimension possible.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Sep 17, 2017)

I'm surprised Mick is still using the non-floating double-locking setup, seems like a hassle. I wonder if he's ever tried an Evertune?

Regarding pricing, I agree with oracles. The Dave Davidson Warrior or M8Ms were very similar in pricing and there wasn't nearly a reaction this vocal to either. Not saying I agree with said pricing, but the logic of why the price point is where it is can be followed fairly easily.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 17, 2017)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> I'm surprised Mick is still using the non-floating double-locking setup, seems like a hassle. I wonder if he's ever tried an Evertune?



Once again, I don't see why it's a hassle.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Sep 17, 2017)

Señor Voorhees said:


> Now the question is just a matter of are those kids from the late 90's really that into slipknot still that they want a relatively simple looking guitar for crazy custom prices, or would they spend that money on an actual custom?
> 
> If I were a fan from the olden days, I'd be more inclined to find one of those gaudy "seven" or "hate" guitars. (I actually own one of the cheap ibbys with the "seven" inlay for the lulz.) Bonus points if you get one of the Warlocks. Fuck those were ugly.



If they're only making 6 of these or whatever, they only need to find a handful of formerly angst-ridden kids who now make good money, and another couple whose rich parents will buy them their latest obsession, just because... and the run sells out as a complete success.


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## oracles (Sep 17, 2017)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> I'm surprised Mick is still using the non-floating double-locking setup, seems like a hassle. I wonder if he's ever tried an Evertune?



The functionality is similar, but tonally there's definitely a difference. The evertune in my experience kills some sustain, and it definitely impacts the overall sound. I also found it bulky feeling under the hand, whereas the blocked Floyd was massively more comfortable.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 17, 2017)

oracles said:


> The functionality is similar, but tonally there's definitely a difference. The evertune in my experience kills some sustain, and it definitely impacts the overall sound. I also found it bulky feeling under the hand, whereas the blocked Floyd was massively more comfortable.



Yeah this is what I brought up earlier. I've heard several people complain about the sustain of the Evertune. With this system, you lose a lot less wood than you would with an evertune, OR a floating Floyd. And since it's fixed, there's no literal balancing act to get the bridge in tune. That's like... 90% of the problem of using a Floyd Rose. 

And as I said before; since Mick uses several guitars, he can afford to use one guitar per tuning and per backup, so he doesn't need to change tunings on his locked guitars.


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## lewis (Sep 17, 2017)

the idea on paper of the evertune is amazing, but if you have to run a compressor with it just to get back any kind of sustain, then screw that.

I hate Floyds but even I would look into a floyd for that application over an evertune. Ive never tried "hardtailing" a floyd before for extra tuning stability. Perhaps I should although these days Im venturing into Headless guitar realms.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 17, 2017)

lewis said:


> the idea on paper of the evertune is amazing, but if you have to run a compressor with it just to get back any kind of sustain, then screw that.
> 
> I hate Floyds but even I would look into a floyd for that application over an evertune. Ive never tried "hardtailing" a floyd before for extra tuning stability. Perhaps I should although these days Im venturing into Headless guitar realms.


I've seen ghetto-ass deals with people using a Floyd as the bridge.

The problem with this is the fine-tuners are extremely limited. I wouldn't rely on them like I'd rely on a legit headless bridge. 

The only Floyd I'd use in this situation is a Speedloader, but they're rare. So are the strings.


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## Jeff (Sep 17, 2017)

nyxzz said:


> I'll never understand using a floyd as a fixed bridge. All the hassle without the entire point of the hassle. I'd think that would retail more for like 4k or something but that's still a little steep...



I don't know about this particular guitar, but Ibanez FX Edge bridges are awesome. The most stable I've ever played, in terms of tuning.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 17, 2017)

Jeff said:


> I don't know about this particular guitar, but Ibanez FX Edge bridges are awesome. The most stable I've ever played, in terms of tuning.



I'd imagine it's a very similar deal. Just instead of being set into the guitar by 2 massive screws on the top, the screws are mounted via the sustain block.


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## possumkiller (Sep 17, 2017)

Just as some find the fixed Floyd confusing, I find all the love and hype of the evertune confusing. To me it's huge hideous rectangle that replaces half the body wood with springs. For me it's a solution for a problem I don't have. I'd rather use a hipshot or a Floyd.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 17, 2017)

You could buy a DK7Q, put blackouts in it and call it a fucking day. This guitar is cool but meh...


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## BenjaminW (Sep 17, 2017)

Interesting guitar. The price tag is pretty interesting as well.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Sep 17, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Once again, I don't see why it's a hassle.



I primarily meant in terms of R&D and production specifics, for a limited run or one-off it's perfectly reasonable.



oracles said:


> The functionality is similar, but tonally there's definitely a difference. The evertune in my experience kills some sustain, and it definitely impacts the overall sound. I also found it bulky feeling under the hand, whereas the blocked Floyd was massively more comfortable.



Interesting. I'm not well versed enough with them to say either way - perhaps Mick did try it and came to the same conclusion.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 17, 2017)

Crash Dandicoot said:


> I primarily meant in terms of R&D and production specifics, for a limited run or one-off it's perfectly reasonable.
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. I'm not well versed enough with them to say either way - perhaps Mick did try it and came to the same conclusion.



It's a limited run of 14 in their custom shop. Though I'm pretty sure they'll have no problem ramping it to a bigger scale if needed. 

Also, Mick seems like a guy who sticks with what he likes. Dude used a big-ass Boss GT unit in his rack just for one effect, until Fractal was able to emulate the effect.


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## Señor Voorhees (Sep 17, 2017)

possumkiller said:


> Just as some find the fixed Floyd confusing, I find all the love and hype of the evertune confusing. To me it's huge hideous rectangle that replaces half the body wood with springs. For me it's a solution for a problem I don't have. I'd rather use a hipshot or a Floyd.



I rather liked the evertune. It got rid of that warble that is pretty typical of using lighter gauge strings... Certainly not the be all end all of bridges (it wasn't enough to get me to keep the guitar since I sold it) but it's definitely useful and neat. I can also see the appeal for the double locking hard tail bridge, but it's definitely not for me.

It's solving an issue that I just don't have and requires a tool to change strings. My guitars rarely go out of tune, and the rate at which they go out of tune is always WAY longer than most people keep a set of strings.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 18, 2017)

Did you end up with sustain issues with your evertune? I did but I am not entirely sure it was the fault of the bridge. That said I did a little reading on some other forums and found there are other folks that noticed a lack of sustain past fret 12 or so. 

Could just be a common setup mistake or something.


Señor Voorhees said:


> I rather liked the evertune. It got rid of that warble that is pretty typical of using lighter gauge strings... Certainly not the be all end all of bridges (it wasn't enough to get me to keep the guitar since I sold it) but it's definitely useful and neat. I can also see the appeal for the double locking hard tail bridge, but it's definitely not for me.
> 
> It's solving an issue that I just don't have and requires a tool to change strings. My guitars rarely go out of tune, and the rate at which they go out of tune is always WAY longer than most people keep a set of strings.


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## mastapimp (Sep 18, 2017)

purpledc said:


> My point being if you went to the custom shop and specd this guitar out before mick was even on the radar at jackson would a red soloist with no inlays and a reverse headstock cost $6,666. I doubt it. .


Here's a reverse headstock plain white soloist on the music zoo - they're asking $4300 (about $700 less than the mick sig). They really do cost anywhere in the 3-5K range.
https://www.themusiczoo.com/collect...-headstock-soloist-electric-guitar-snow-white


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## feraledge (Sep 18, 2017)

lewis said:


> I bet even die hard Mick fans who buy this, after 3 months would be like "yeah, this wasnt worth it"


I seriously doubt it. All of this talk of "for that price buy a custom shop guitar," well, this IS a custom shop guitar. Masterbuilt. Best that you can get from Jackson. Spec-wise, it's pretty straight forward, but wanting the top of the line doesn't mean everyone wants crazy tops and finishes. I'm not saying I'm one of them, but I wouldn't have a problem ordering a custom ESP in a solid color and I wish the street price would be around the price on this. 
Thing is, the people who buy this know what they're after and they're going to get it in spades. It's not like cheaper guitars aren't great, but the difference is definitely there in terms of quality, woods, etc. If guitars were solely looks, there would be no custom shops or even tiers. 
But c'mon, there's no secret here. No one is going to reasonably drop $4000+ just on how it looks and then the wool is lifted from their eyes when they realize what it really is. You can see it, straight up, you know what it looks like and I can guarantee that it probably plays, feels, and sounds amazing.


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## xzacx (Sep 18, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> Here's a reverse headstock plain white soloist on the music zoo - they're asking $4300 (about $700 less than the mick sig). They really do cost anywhere in the 3-5K range.
> https://www.themusiczoo.com/collect...-headstock-soloist-electric-guitar-snow-white



Exactly. And that one doesn't have custom side "dots," custom bridge routing, or a flight case.


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## Mathemagician (Sep 18, 2017)

If they released a ~$3500 version I'd look at it, because floyds are imo the most comfortable bridge. (But I need dot inlays to see what I'm doing so it wouldn't be a Mick dig that I buy).


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## Señor Voorhees (Sep 18, 2017)

Konfyouzd said:


> Did you end up with sustain issues with your evertune? I did but I am not entirely sure it was the fault of the bridge. That said I did a little reading on some other forums and found there are other folks that noticed a lack of sustain past fret 12 or so.
> 
> Could just be a common setup mistake or something.



It's been a while, and I don't play a whole hell of a lot of lead stuff (12th fret and under) but I think mine was well enough. Not outlandishly different from any other guitar I own/owned, anyway.

edit: It's worth mentioning that the guitar I had also weighed a fucking ton, so that might factor into my decent sustain. I could not for the life of me play that guitar while standing with a strap. More than like a half hour or so would give me a pretty nasty headache from straining too hard. I can't remember the weight of the guitar, but it was noticeably heavier than ANY of my other guitars.


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## purpledc (Sep 18, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> Here's a reverse headstock plain white soloist on the music zoo - they're asking $4300 (about $700 less than the mick sig). They really do cost anywhere in the 3-5K range.
> https://www.themusiczoo.com/collect...-headstock-soloist-electric-guitar-snow-white




That is still an extra $700 to be locked into micks specs and for a build that is much less intricate. So if it were me i would be ordering my own custom shop instrument with my specs and have 700 dollars left for other gear. The white soloist actually gives you more options for less money which was my entire point. And even if i specd the guitar nearly identical to micks it would likely cost less since mick aint getting a percentage. But i honestly hate signature instruments and dont see the appeal in the first place.


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## xzacx (Sep 18, 2017)

purpledc said:


> That is still an extra $700 to be locked into micks specs and for a build that is much less intricate.



But it's not less intricate. Stuff like a custom neck profile, custom routing for a bridge, and custom fret makers add up fast. Mick's specs are _more_ intricate, plus you're getting a $300 flight case. I'm not saying you want that stuff, or care about it, or that the money wouldn't be better spend on your own specs. But it's not like this has been arbitrarily priced higher than what something like this would normally sell for. You're actually getting more for the $700 though.


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## MFB (Sep 18, 2017)

xzacx said:


> Custom fret makers add up fast



All 0 of them!


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## xzacx (Sep 18, 2017)

MFB said:


> All 0 of them!



I didn't say inlays - there are custom side markers.


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## mastapimp (Sep 18, 2017)

purpledc said:


> That is still an extra $700 to be locked into micks specs and for a build that is much less intricate. So if it were me i would be ordering my own custom shop instrument with my specs and have 700 dollars left for other gear. The white soloist actually gives you more options for less money which was my entire point. And even if i specd the guitar nearly identical to micks it would likely cost less since mick aint getting a percentage. But i honestly hate signature instruments and dont see the appeal in the first place.



If $700 is make or break for you, then you shouldn't be shopping from the Jackson Custom shop. They're not trying to sell this to people that don't mind spending the money.


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## MFB (Sep 18, 2017)

xzacx said:


> I didn't say inlays - there are custom side markers.



I feel like I see people using them synonymously (I don't think that's a word, but oh well) so I was assuming you were doing the same. Looks like they're doing the Parker style bar markers vs. traditional dots.

Carry on then


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## xzacx (Sep 18, 2017)

MFB said:


> I feel like I see people using them synonymously (I don't think that's a word, but oh well) so I was assuming you were doing the same. Looks like they're doing the Parker style bar markers vs. traditional dots.
> 
> Carry on then



I'm not suggesting that's a huge expense in and of itself, but any time you stray from the standard specs, it's adding time and cost.


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## possumkiller (Sep 18, 2017)

When I finally do break down and order my custom ESP it will be pretty similar in specs. A solid color M-II with no fancy inlays and maybe a pickguard. I just have to finally come to terms with getting exactly what I want costing me $6kUSD hard currency. And the fact that I've been waiting 15 years for them to release something like it and when I finally give up and drop the coin for a custom they will probably release it as a standard model.


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## purpledc (Sep 18, 2017)

xzacx said:


> But it's not less intricate. Stuff like a custom neck profile, custom routing for a bridge, and custom fret makers add up fast. Mick's specs are _more_ intricate, plus you're getting a $300 flight case. I'm not saying you want that stuff, or care about it, or that the money wouldn't be better spend on your own specs. But it's not like this has been arbitrarily priced higher than what something like this would normally sell for. You're actually getting more for the $700 though.




I don't see how just doing the top route for the Floyd and blocking it is more work that routing both sides of the body for a Floyd and having to set the thing up. And I mean these are all custom shop instruments so aren't I'm not really thinking a custom carve is all that hard for them to do. Its a custom shop for a reason. His fretboard has no inlays at all. I would think the white soloist with the inlays would also involve more work. His pickups are no harder to install than any other set if not actually easier given the active quick connect stuff. The paint is on par with the other though I would say white is a harder color to get right. I don't know man, I'm just not buying that his guitar is any harder to build than any other custom shop instrument. You know they have reverse headstock necks just sitting waiting to go as its a popular enough option. Like I said I'm a little biased because I don't care for signature instruments. But we all value things differently. I'm sure someone will buy them.


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## possumkiller (Sep 18, 2017)

It's definitely no more difficult. Just masterbuilt+limited sig model=$$$ This is for hardcore slipknot fanboys that can afford it. Or the person that sees it as their dream guitar.


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## purpledc (Sep 18, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> If $700 is make or break for you, then you shouldn't be shopping from the Jackson Custom shop. They're not trying to sell this to people that don't mind spending the money.



I think there are a lot more people who are smart about their money than you let on. You basically just said that anyone who is going to spend $5000 on a guitar wont care about saving 14%. Most people who earn a good living got there by making smart business decisions. But its not just the rich who are buying these instruments. Do you really think everyone on this forum who has posted high end gear is loaded? I just spent $3000 last month on guitar gear. It would have been closer to $3600. I enjoyed saving the $600.


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## purpledc (Sep 18, 2017)

possumkiller said:


> It's definitely no more difficult. Just masterbuilt+limited sig model=$$$ This is for hardcore slipknot fanboys that can afford it. Or the person that sees it as their dream guitar.


But aren't all custom shop instruments master built and limited? I realize its for slipknot fanboys. But that's not really what I'm debating. It was argued to me that the instrument is well worth the price due to the extra work that I don't see myself vs the white soloist he posted as evidence which I feel that instrument gives more for less.


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## possumkiller (Sep 18, 2017)

It's no extra work than any other similar soloist. Just with FMIC they divide the custom guitars into price tiers. The standard custom shop guitars are basically a custom shop factory. Similar to the ESP original series. Built by a group of people. The masterbuilt guitars are built by just one master builder. This is why you can see two identical spec custom shop 57 Stratocaster or whatever for two very different prices.


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## lewis (Sep 18, 2017)

purpledc said:


> But aren't all custom shop instruments master built and limited? I realize its for slipknot fanboys. But that's not really what I'm debating. It was argued to me that the instrument is well worth the price due to the extra work that I don't see myself vs the white soloist he posted as evidence which I feel that instrument gives more for less.


The boost in price is completely down to his name being attached and nothing more. As you say, other guitars offer identical specs and build qualities for less. Tbh, i prefer non sig guitars and them always being cheaper is an added bonus.


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## xzacx (Sep 18, 2017)

purpledc said:


> I don't see how just doing the top route for the Floyd and blocking it is more work that routing both sides of the body for a Floyd and having to set the thing up. And I mean these are all custom shop instruments so aren't I'm not really thinking a custom carve is all that hard for them to do. Its a custom shop for a reason. His fretboard has no inlays at all. I would think the white soloist with the inlays would also involve more work. His pickups are no harder to install than any other set if not actually easier given the active quick connect stuff. The paint is on par with the other though I would say white is a harder color to get right. I don't know man, I'm just not buying that his guitar is any harder to build than any other custom shop instrument. You know they have reverse headstock necks just sitting waiting to go as its a popular enough option. Like I said I'm a little biased because I don't care for signature instruments. But we all value things differently. I'm sure someone will buy them.



It's not that it's more or less difficult, it's that it deviates from standard specs. There's no discount for no inlays. A reverse headstock is a $300 charge (unless it went up). Moving the volume knob an inch lower is a $75 charge. Ridiculous. Again, I'm not suggesting it's worth it, or it costs them more - other than in the sense that time is money, and when features differ from the standard template, it slows things down.


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## purpledc (Sep 18, 2017)

xzacx said:


> It's not that it's more or less difficult, it's that it deviates from standard specs. There's no discount for no inlays. A reverse headstock is a $300 charge (unless it went up). Moving the volume knob an inch lower is a $75 charge. Ridiculous. Again, I'm not suggesting it's worth it, or it costs them more - other than in the sense that time is money, and when features differ from the standard template, it slows things down.


That's nuts. I just figured "custom shop" meant certain things would just be a given considering its going to be a custom guitar. It would be rather odd to me to order a custom shop version of something and have it be identical to a stock model. Whatever, out of my league no matter what.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 18, 2017)

MFB said:


> All 0 of them!


This is why I <3 Ben


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## feraledge (Sep 18, 2017)

purpledc said:


> That's nuts. I just figured "custom shop" meant certain things would just be a given considering its going to be a custom guitar. It would be rather odd to me to order a custom shop version of something and have it be identical to a stock model. Whatever, out of my league no matter what.


A custom shop means built to order. Components are picked intently by people who much better builders than any production line (unless we're talking about Kiesel). They still use templates, CNC, etc. There are usually anything goes options which demand anything goes price tags. 
But people go to these companies because they have a model that people want a customized or better quality version of. And that difference is noticeable in the guitar pretty clearly which is why people go custom even if they aren't doing anything really "out there."


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## mastapimp (Sep 18, 2017)

purpledc said:


> But aren't all custom shop instruments master built and limited? I realize its for slipknot fanboys. But that's not really what I'm debating. It was argued to me that the instrument is well worth the price due to the extra work that I don't see myself vs the white soloist he posted as evidence which I feel that instrument gives more for less.


It's not that simple to feel like you're getting more for less when you can only guess how the guitar is made or who is making it. Certain features that may appear simple can take an entirely different process and increase the total steps in the build (think special paint finishes - spray on versus flake versus electrostatic). Unless you know how each guitar was built from step 1 to completion, it's of no value comparing the final products and saying axe 1 should cost this much and axe 2 should cost this much by looking at the spec sheet. 

Also, something is "masterbuilt" by the people with the most experience and produce the best quality work on the team. This can apply to many walks of life and many careers. People that have the most experience in their field generally get compensated more for their consistent output and better work when compared to newcomers. Mike Shannon is the senior master builder at Jackson and if he's making each of these guitars, it'll probably come at a higher price tag (he's been in their custom shop since the 80's). He's likely their highest paid builder and it shows. I have a Shannon build and the attention to detail is impeccable. You can disagree that there's no difference from one builder to the next and that all custom guitars are "masterbuilt", but the man has earned his reputation and it is probably reflective in the pricing. And this isn't just Jackson...any of the masterbuilt mayones will fetch a higher price than a standard custom order.


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## purpledc (Sep 19, 2017)

feraledge said:


> A custom shop means built to order. Components are picked intently by people who much better builders than any production line (unless we're talking about Kiesel). They still use templates, CNC, etc. There are usually anything goes options which demand anything goes price tags.
> But people go to these companies because they have a model that people want a customized or better quality version of. And that difference is noticeable in the guitar pretty clearly which is why people go custom even if they aren't doing anything really "out there."




I meant the jackson custom shop specifically. I mean a reverse headstock for $300? They make so many reverse headstock guitars and its such a popular thing even among their production guitars i just figured a reverse headstock neck blank would just be something they stock. A small scale shop that does everything by hand sure Incould see them charging that. But like you say jackson utilizes cnc even in their custom line. So I just figured certain extremely common options they offer would be standard. Especially since you know they have a rack of reverse necks sitting their.


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## purpledc (Sep 19, 2017)

mastapimp said:


> It's not that simple to feel like you're getting more for less when you can only guess how the guitar is made or who is making it. Certain features that may appear simple can take an entirely different process and increase the total steps in the build (think special paint finishes - spray on versus flake versus electrostatic). Unless you know how each guitar was built from step 1 to completion, it's of no value comparing the final products and saying axe 1 should cost this much and axe 2 should cost this much by looking at the spec sheet.
> 
> Also, something is "masterbuilt" by the people with the most experience and produce the best quality work on the team. This can apply to many walks of life and many careers. People that have the most experience in their field generally get compensated more for their consistent output and better work when compared to newcomers. Mike Shannon is the senior master builder at Jackson and if he's making each of these guitars, it'll probably come at a higher price tag (he's been in their custom shop since the 80's). He's likely their highest paid builder and it shows. I have a Shannon build and the attention to detail is impeccable. You can disagree that there's no difference from one builder to the next and that all custom guitars are "masterbuilt", but the man has earned his reputation and it is probably reflective in the pricing. And this isn't just Jackson...any of the masterbuilt mayones will fetch a higher price than a standard custom order.




Spray on and flake finishes are the same thing. The metal flake is just added to the paint. Its more expensive in materials but anyone spraying finishes can lay a flake down or at least should. Unless you meant pearl but even that many times is added to an existing basecoat. You can create a third stage and spray pearl separately but its an easy finish to spot which looks like neither the white nor micks have it. As for electrostatic finishes i could see that costing something extra as there are extra steps to get it to stick to wood but i doubt its a common practice. And you can tell in the pics micks guitar is a basecoat clearcoat with small metallic flake. I know who mike shannon is. For me, if its a custom guitar from a well known company it better be perfect no matter who was working in the shop and for how long. If you would pay a premium because they attached his name to it then awesome. I wouldnt. Im sorry but if i cant speak negatively about their pricing structure because i dont know the particulars of the build its equally reckless for you to defend them when you yourself are just guessing at their process. Do you know for a fact that when mike is involved in a build he does everything from start to finish? Do you know if he supervises others work to usher it along. Are new recruits even given certain jobs if they arent proven capable? I mean neither of us work in the jackson custom shop right? So neither of us really have a whole lot of insight to their respective processes besides what we read and regurgitate.


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## xzacx (Sep 19, 2017)

purpledc said:


> I meant the jackson custom shop specifically. I mean a reverse headstock for $300? They make so many reverse headstock guitars and its such a popular thing even among their production guitars i just figured a reverse headstock neck blank would just be something they stock.



Please name all of the production USA Jacksons with a reverse inline headstock? (I'll give you a hint - there's *one *- and even that one can hardly be considered a production model since they make and sell approximately none of them.)



purpledc said:


> Spray on and flake finishes are the same thing. The metal flake is just added to the paint. Its more expensive in materials but anyone spraying finishes can lay a flake down or at least should.



Not that it pertains to this guitar, but metal flake finishes are expensive and time consuming from any brand who does them well. It's not as simple as just adding flake to the paint. For one thing, it makes a mess - you can't just spray a normal finish, spray a flake, then spray another normal finish. For another thing, it takes more layers to get that depth that a good flake finish has.


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## jl-austin (Sep 19, 2017)

If they made an X-series version of this for under $1000, I would be all over it (where have you all heard that before, haha). 

I don't have the budget to even consider a CS guitar. So, I won't even comment on that. But I have hopes that an X-series version will come out at the next NAMM.


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## purpledc (Sep 19, 2017)

xzacx said:


> Not that it pertains to this guitar, but metal flake finishes are expensive and time consuming from any brand who does them well. It's not as simple as just adding flake to the paint. For one thing, it makes a mess - you can't just spray a normal finish, spray a flake, then spray another normal finish. For another thing, it takes more layers to get that depth that a good flake finish has.



What are you talking about? You normally would have a dedicated gun for spraying flake. Because the nozzle on the gun will be larger to accommodate the larger particles. So if they are spraying flake they should have a gun ready to go. No sane painter is going to use a single gun and swap nozzles out and clean the same gun no matter what finish they are spraying. A custom shop painter or even most automotive painters have guns for specific jobs. So yes it is as simple as picking up the appropriate gun for the type of finish and using it, then cleaning them when done. Most painters I know even have a dedicated gun for clear. You simply don't have enough time to clean your gun and swap parts to do other stages of the finish. Especially if you are baking finishes which most people are doing to improve speed. As for metal flake. Why would it make a mess? I worked in the automotive finish industry. My job for about 7 years was mixing custom paint. Color matching. Etc. I mixed more flake and pearls in a year than most people see in a lifetime. They are not difficult nor messy to mix and spraying them while taking more care are not as problematic as you let on if you are a skilled painter.



xzacx said:


> Please name all of the production USA Jacksons with a reverse inline headstock? (I'll give you a hint - there's *one *- and even that one can hardly be considered a production model since they make and sell approximately none of them.



Currently? Not many like you said. But do you really think every single neck they use in the custom shop is a bespoke carve and that they lay a template and hand cut necks every time? No, watch some videos on the Jackson custom shop. They have racks of necks sitting there. Do you have to pay the CNC more to run a different program? Its the same amount of wood and the same amount of work. Its not like the necks are going to be made to measure in every single case. Whether or not its on a production guitar or not is irrelevant if we are talking a custom shop instrument. I'm sorry man, if you think there is any more work to a reverse other than the selection process of grabbing a blank off a rack I think you put way too much stock in the term "custom".


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## mastapimp (Sep 19, 2017)

purpledc said:


> Do you know for a fact that when mike is involved in a build he does everything from start to finish? Do you know if he supervises others work to usher it along. Are new recruits even given certain jobs if they arent proven capable? I mean neither of us work in the jackson custom shop right? So neither of us really have a whole lot of insight to their respective processes besides what we read and regurgitate.


For the WR7, the Jackson rep told me on numerous occasions that Mike was the only one making them and in small batches (they started hitting the stores in Oct 2016, i got one of the last batch guitars in Feb 2017). They told me he built Dave's guitar and was making exact duplicates. The tag that came with the guitar has other initials for final inspection, set up, etc...but the construction was all Mike. From the interviews about this guitar on youtube, it appears that Mike also made the Thomson model.


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## electriceye (Sep 19, 2017)

purpledc said:


> Spray on and flake finishes are the same thing. The metal flake is just added to the paint. Its more expensive in materials but anyone spraying finishes can lay a flake down or at least should. Unless you meant pearl but even that many times is added to an existing basecoat. You can create a third stage and spray pearl separately but its an easy finish to spot which looks like neither the white nor micks have it.



Sorry, but it's not that simple. I spoke with one of the guys from Jackson a few months ago at a show and they do flake jobs once every one or two weeks at most. Whatever the process, it makes a *huge* mess of the paint booth and requires additional prep AND cleaning. I'm not an expert, but that's what he told me. That's why there's an extra cost.


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## xzacx (Sep 19, 2017)

purpledc said:


> What are you talking about? You normally would have a dedicated gun for spraying flake. Because the nozzle on the gun will be larger to accommodate the larger particles. So if they are spraying flake they should have a gun ready to go. No sane painter is going to use a single gun a swap nozzles out and clean the same gun no matter what finish they are spraying. A custom shop painter or even most automotive painters have guns for specific jobs. So yes it is as simple as picking up the appropriate gun and using it, then cleaning it and if you need to do a clear you grab your gun you use for clear. You simply don't have enough time to clean your gun and swap parts to do other stages of the finish. Especially if you are baking finishes which most people are doing to improve speed. As for metal flake. Why would it make a mess? I worked in the automotive finish industry. My job for about 7 years was mixing custom paint. Color matching. Etc. I mixed more flake and pearls in a year than most people see in a lifetime. They are not difficult nor messy to mix and spraying them while taking more care are not as problematic as you let on if you are a skilled painter.



You know more about painting than me - I'm just going by what I've always read about guitar finishing, including (but not limited to) the JCS specifically. And it's not about the guns, but keeping the room clean, so they only do it here and there in batches. Granted - that could be embellished to help justify upcharges. Either way though, it takes more coats, which takes more time.



purpledc said:


> Whether or not its on a production guitar or not is irrelevant if we are talking a custom shop instrument. I'm sorry man, if you think there is any more work to a reverse other than the selection process of grabbing a blank off a rack I think you put way too much stock in the term "custom".



You are the one that brought up that they make so many production models with reverse headstocks, which they don't. And I've said time and time again that I'm not suggesting it costs any more, just that there is an upcharge regardless, and that it's not limited to this particular model...which additionally has a custom carve. It's not a revelation that when you order a custom, they change you for everything extra. If it's not worth it to you, it's pretty easy to just not buy one.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 19, 2017)

Sure it's easy to not buy one but keeping your wallet and mouth closed are two entirely different goals 

I started off bitching a bit at the price as well but I do also see the rationale in the pricing to some degree based on personal experience.

But it's still very easy to ask where all the money goes when you're the one spending it. 

They thought I was overpriced as a programmer at a lot of places ignoring that I was coding alone on a job that required at least 2 ppl.

They tried replacing me with one person at half my rate. The project struggled. Now they see where their money went.

I believe we're looking at a similar deal.


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## feraledge (Sep 19, 2017)

purpledc said:


> They have racks of necks sitting there.


For ordered guitars...
You get that their wait time is because they're busy as hell with orders and not just randomly making necks or whatever.
I'm not defending it, BTW, I think reverse stocks should be a free option as well, just as the upcharge on a pickup swap shouldn't be the full cost of the pickup, just the difference (if any). But for a custom shop, anything "not standard" is effectively a risk. That's why anything even slightly out there becomes Masterbuilt. From their angle, if they take customer requests without established options, they run the risk that the customer complains that it's not what they requested. Anything within the realm is easy to put through production outlets, but since they aren't selling directly, if they have to take a custom back they then have to find an outlet for it.
That said, the custom shop has also done some high end botching on things that seemed pretty straightforward, so if they're easing in cautiously, best to trust them.


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## Shoeless_jose (Sep 19, 2017)

This thread hurts my brain.

All custom guitars cost more than they are "worth"
This one costs more than some other ones
If you really like slipknot and really like guitars you will pay that extra bit for the cool flightcase and slipknot swag, and to own something that is truly limited.

And unless you got a craigslist/ebay/reverb deal, pretty much all of us here overpaid for all of our guitars, just this happens to be a bigger number, so whatever, get over it.


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## purpledc (Sep 19, 2017)

feraledge said:


> For ordered guitars...
> You get that their wait time is because they're busy as hell with orders and not just randomly making necks or whatever.
> I'm not defending it, BTW, I think reverse stocks should be a free option as well, just as the upcharge on a pickup swap shouldn't be the full cost of the pickup, just the difference (if any). But for a custom shop, anything "not standard" is effectively a risk. That's why anything even slightly out there becomes Masterbuilt. From their angle, if they take customer requests without established options, they run the risk that the customer complains that it's not what they requested. Anything within the realm is easy to put through production outlets, but since they aren't selling directly, if they have to take a custom back they then have to find an outlet for it.
> That said, the custom shop has also done some high end botching on things that seemed pretty straightforward, so if they're easing in cautiously, best to trust them.



Yeah, I get it. From a business perspective they are offering a custom one of product and the point of that is to get what you want and not so much about saving money. I see everyones points on that as well. I'm just expressing how much certain things piss me off. I understand making a living and any business should look to how they can produce revenue. I just think there is a point when you are just taking advantage. Like how you mentioned pickups. If its cheaper for me to order a custom guitar and buy aftermarket pickups and install them than it is to have those pickups installed at that time the guitar is being made I think that is bit extreme. Plus if I source the parts myself I have the original parts to boot which I always love having me some parts laying around. Or to resell and recoup some money. I saw and order sheet on axe palace and they claim 225 for a reverse headstock. I still find that ridiculous but at least it aint three bills or over. Or did prices go up and they just haven't updated their order forms?



mastapimp said:


> For the WR7, the Jackson rep told me on numerous occasions that Mike was the only one making them and in small batches (they started hitting the stores in Oct 2016, i got one of the last batch guitars in Feb 2017). They told me he built Dave's guitar and was making exact duplicates. The tag that came with the guitar has other initials for final inspection, set up, etc...but the construction was all Mike. From the interviews about this guitar on youtube, it appears that Mike also made the Thomson model.



That is pretty cool. I do understand the pedigree a guitar would have if it was sole authorship by someone with his stature. Honestely though, since I don't know myself having not seen many (a few but not enough to form an opinion) do you feel his work is genuinely one of a kind or do you feel that most custom shop builds have that level of detail? Even though I wouldn't pay it, I get it at least. I'm just curious if the quality is on another level or if its more of a bragging rights thing.


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## feraledge (Sep 19, 2017)

purpledc said:


> I saw and order sheet on axe palace and they claim 225 for a reverse headstock. I still find that ridiculous but at least it aint three bills or over. Or did prices go up and they just haven't updated their order forms?


All the Custom Select forms are list price, you won't or shouldn't pay any of those prices. How much the dealer discounts is up to them, but definitely not that.


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## purpledc (Sep 19, 2017)

xzacx said:


> You know more about painting than me - I'm just going by what I've always read about guitar finishing, including (but not limited to) the JCS specifically. And it's not about the guns, but keeping the room clean, so they only do it here and there in batches. Granted - that could be embellished to help justify upcharges. Either way though, it takes more coats, which takes more time. .


I get that some finishes will cost more. Some are more difficult than others to lay down. And some raw materials like color changing paints have come down a bit but are still pretty costly. But my original comment wasn't that there are no logical and justifiable reasons for certain things being more money. Obviously if you are doing something with such a large flake like clown car style circus flake and you have to bury that in a metric shit ton of clear in comparison to a standard finish yeah I get it. I'm just saying I think there is a limit before it becomes stupid. 



xzacx said:


> You are the one that brought up that they make so many production models with reverse headstocks, which they don't. And I've said time and time again that I'm not suggesting it costs any more, just that there is an upcharge regardless, and that it's not limited to this particular model...which additionally has a custom carve. It's not a revelation that when you order a custom, they change you for everything extra. If it's not worth it to you, it's pretty easy to just not buy one.



The comment I made was about Jackson guitars having had many production models over the course of its lifespan. I wasn't saying they currently have a vast quantity of models. And I wasn't speaking about USA models alone. I was talking any Jackson guitar with a reversed headstock. More to imply that they have done a reverse pointy on enough models and its a popular enough option the you would think it might be at most $100 to swap it. Its not a new headstock design, and its not so rare that you have to make a one off neck. Now if someone wanted a charvel surfcaster headstock or wanted a 12 string pointy? $300-500 all day long. But If you are doing a custom shop dinky you have a 50/50 chance its gonna be a reverse. I think that warrants having a few blanks made up and not charging bespoke prices. Again its just my opinion and I'm just venting about how you don't really get much for your money anymore. I know I sound like an old man but its just because I'm getting older. I remember buying hand made hamer guitars used for $200-400 because no one wanted them. Now I cant touch a good Korean for that price. And don't get me wrong I'm all for companies making a buck. But I also think at some point you are just shafting your customer. Especially when so many good builders exist that will make anything you want for the same price. I know it wont be a Jackson. But damn, I just see some of them prices and I lose any interest.


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## xzacx (Sep 19, 2017)

purpledc said:


> do you feel his work is genuinely one of a kind or do you feel that most custom shop builds have that level of detail? Even though I wouldn't pay it, I get it at least. I'm just curious if the quality is on another level or if its more of a bragging rights thing.



I've had a Shannon-made Jacksons including a Rhoads that IMO was the single best Jackson I've ever owned. It had a speed neck though which the seller didn't mention (and I didn't ask, my fault for assuming) and I didn't end up keeping it. So I do think the quality is a little bit of it. But at the same time, there's only "so good" certain things can get. It's not 2x better (not that I paid that much for it) than a normal USA Rhoads, but you know how the law of diminishing returns works.

I don't know if "bragging rights" is how I would categorize it, because it means nothing to the vast majority of people. But to longtime Jackson fans, there is a certain collectability about it. All things being equal, yes, I'd pay a little extra for something built by Mike Shannon. The thing is, you don't even have to pay a ton for it. You can find stuff from the '90s run of Shannon Soloists for basically the same price as any used Soloist, which is to say, a steal. But if you want to pick all the specs, and have their most prestigious builder make it, then yeah, that's just what it'll cost you.



purpledc said:


> I'm just saying I think there is a limit before it becomes stupid.



I don't disagree.



purpledc said:


> More to imply that they have done a reverse pointy on enough models and its a popular enough option the you would think it might be at most $100 to swap it. Its not a new headstock design, and its not so rare that you have to make a one off neck.



Agreed again, and I think it's the popularity that is exactly why it is so expensive. 

Oh, and as far as the $225/$300 discrepancy, I'm not sure what you looked at, but the current form says $300. It's discounted from there but every dealer would be different. Not sure if Axe Palace had the MAP or it was just an old form.


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## mastapimp (Sep 19, 2017)

purpledc said:


> Yeah, I get it. From a business perspective they are offering a custom one of product and the point of that is to get what you want and not so much about saving money. I see everyones points on that as well. I'm just expressing how much certain things piss me off. I understand making a living and any business should look to how they can produce revenue. I just think there is a point when you are just taking advantage. Like how you mentioned pickups. If its cheaper for me to order a custom guitar and buy aftermarket pickups and install them than it is to have those pickups installed at that time the guitar is being made I think that is bit extreme. Plus if I source the parts myself I have the original parts to boot which I always love having me some parts laying around. Or to resell and recoup some money. I saw and order sheet on axe palace and they claim 225 for a reverse headstock. I still find that ridiculous but at least it aint three bills or over. Or did prices go up and they just haven't updated their order forms?
> 
> 
> 
> That is pretty cool. I do understand the pedigree a guitar would have if it was sole authorship by someone with his stature. Honestely though, since I don't know myself having not seen many (a few but not enough to form an opinion) do you feel his work is genuinely one of a kind or do you feel that most custom shop builds have that level of detail? Even though I wouldn't pay it, I get it at least. I'm just curious if the quality is on another level or if its more of a bragging rights thing.



I have seen much prettier guitars and there's probably better guitars from other builders, but coming out of the Jackson Custom shop, i think he's the best they have to offer. Like xzacx stated, it's certainly better built than their standard offerings, but it's a tiered approach in quality, not orders of magnitude.

I have a few custom shop instruments and several USA production models that all play amazingly well. The difference in the masterbuilt guitars is the attention to detail and the feel. For these prices, the detail is pretty phenomenal. I paid much more for my Regius, and it's a very ornate guitar, but also has the most absurdly low action. I feel like playing it is spoiling me and will hurt my technique. My WR7 stands out from the my other USA guitars because it has amazing balance, seamless contours, and every millimeter looks like it was tirelessly attended to. The thing feels like one hunk of wood and the fretboard is radius'ed with the neck profile (the cleanest transition i've ever seen). I have other neck-thru jacksons that are missing these small details and feeling, but are still wonderful guitars. I feel like it was worth the extra money, others may not. 

As far as bragging rights, it only goes as far as to who is in the know about metal musicians. When i showed my guitar to my dad i said "the same guy that worked on Randy Rhoads' guitar made this" he was pretty stoked. Told my wife the same thing and it was "Randy Who?"


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## eugeneelgr (Sep 20, 2017)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Maybe they mean it's spec'd as mahogany, and will actually have mahogany instead of something mahogany-esque.



Huh? Last time I checked, if something is spec'ed as mahogany, you got real mahogany. Could be african or honduran but it's still mahogany. I don't see what's mahogany-esque that they could use that isn't "genuine mahogany" yet could justify their actions in the case if they had just put "mahogany".

Sounds like desperate marketing if you ask me.


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## Steinmetzify (Sep 21, 2017)

eugeneelgr said:


> Huh? Last time I checked, if something is spec'ed as mahogany, you got real mahogany. Could be african or honduran but it's still mahogany. I don't see what's mahogany-esque that they could use that isn't "genuine mahogany" yet could justify their actions in the case if they had just put "mahogany".
> 
> Sounds like desperate marketing if you ask me.



They wanted to let people know it wasn't imaginary mahogany...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 21, 2017)

IIRC a lot of Asian instruments are made from a mahogany-like wood called Nato, or something like that.


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## protest (Sep 21, 2017)

Guitar companies use the term mahogany loosely, so I'm guessing Jackson is saying this is actual Honduran mahogany, not something that's basically mahogany.


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## Petar Bogdanov (Sep 23, 2017)

Shoulda used the species name, then. We can handle two words in latin.


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## Chokey Chicken (Sep 23, 2017)

They gotta play the salesman game somehow... Make shit sound more special than it is. I love hearing companies trying to sell the stock pickups in guitars.

"Two real humbuckers give you insane output for screaming metal tones."

If it were up to me it'd be "Muddy replaceable trash. They produce sound, but you'll wanna replace them sooner rather than later."

Am I a salesman yet, ma?


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## Jeff (Sep 23, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> If they released a ~$3500 version I'd look at it, because floyds are imo the most comfortable bridge. (But I need dot inlays to see what I'm doing so it wouldn't be a Mick dig that I buy).



There are dots on the side.


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## jephjacques (Sep 23, 2017)

I think they're cool guitars

well, bye


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## Mathemagician (Sep 23, 2017)

Jeff said:


> There are dots on the side.



I. Am. Not. That. Practiced. 

Lol. Yeah, when I used to practice 200+ hours a week it all would have been gravy. Now? “Fuck that’s seven, shit that should have been 8. WHY DO 15-20 LOOK THE SAME?!”


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## Mathemagician (Sep 23, 2017)

Jeff said:


> There are dots on the side.



I. Am. Not. That. Practiced. 

Lol. Yeah, when I used to practice 200+ hours a week it all would have been gravy. Now? “Fuck that’s seven, shit that should have been 8. WHY DO 15-20 LOOK THE SAME?!”


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## Mathemagician (Sep 23, 2017)

Jeff said:


> There are dots on the side.



I. Am. Not. That. Practiced. 

Lol. Yeah, when I used to practice 200+ hours a week it all would have been gravy. Now? “Fuck that’s seven, shit that should have been 8. WHY DO 15-20 LOOK THE SAME?!”


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## Jeff (Sep 23, 2017)

Mathemagician said:


> I. Am. Not. That. Practiced.
> 
> Lol. Yeah, when I used to practice 200+ hours a week it all would have been gravy. Now? “Fuck that’s seven, shit that should have been 8. WHY DO 15-20 LOOK THE SAME?!”



I can sort of understand, though for me personally the side dots have always been enough.


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