# Insane practice technique



## ImBCRichBitch (Jan 6, 2012)

I was wondering if anyone out there practices like i do. I find the tabs to a song, and start playing. Pretty straight forward, right? Well not exactly, i play electric songs on a acoustic with an unradiused fretboard, so when it comes down to the time to play it electric, its much easier. Anyone else do this?


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## Winspear (Jan 6, 2012)

I've done similar things such as learning songs on bass. When I decided to learn multifinger double handed tapping, starting with The Great Plains by Scale the Summit, I first wrote a Jean Baudin style song on my 6 string bass. It was all I played for a couple of days and my fingers were very sore. The guitar was incredibly easy afterwards.


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## ImBCRichBitch (Jan 6, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> I've done similar things such as learning songs on bass. When I decided to learn multifinger double handed tapping, starting with The Great Plains by Scale the Summit, I first wrote a Jean Baudin style song on my 6 string bass. It was all I played for a couple of days and my fingers were very sore. The guitar was incredibly easy afterwards.


 You play the song you wrote on bass BEADGC on your guitar?


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## Winspear (Jan 6, 2012)

No - I learnt the strength required for 8 finger tapping by composing on bass for a while


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## ImBCRichBitch (Jan 6, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> No - I learnt the strength required for 8 finger tapping by composing on bass for a while


 Ohh i thought you meant wrote it in that tuning and played it. Thats how i learned how to tap, was bass. and then i just figured out taps already in songs like the solo to Hearts Burst Into Fire by BFMV and the bass taps in the chorus to Happy? by Mudvayne


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## veshly (Jan 6, 2012)

I do the same thing with a bass, too. It kind of makes me want to buy a 6 string. 

When I play drums a while ago I'd play with brushes for a few days then switch back to my regular sticks, man, what a difference. SO MUCH POWWAAAA.


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## ImBCRichBitch (Jan 6, 2012)

veshly said:


> I do the same thing with a bass, too. It kind of makes me want to buy a 6 string.
> 
> When I play drums a while ago I'd play with brushes for a few days then switch back to my regular sticks, man, what a difference. SO MUCH POWWAAAA.


 is the powaaa over 9000?  but thats actually a good tip, brushes and sticks. Do you just alternate between the 2?


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## Tobi (Jan 6, 2012)

I dont quite play like you do, I normally do practise on a clean channel, just to be sure I play as exact as possible. I wouldnt play a song on a nylon string acoustic though if I would otherwise play it on an electric... just doesnt seem to make much sense to me, epecially in terms of bending and stuff... 
When I compose and write however, I write pretty much the exact same way, I start completely acoustic, I want the song I write to be able to send my message without any effects or distortion, even without bends, heavy vibratos or any stylistic devices. I want the Notes and the rhythm to sound good without having to add anythng else. Just when I know that all that sounds good I add up on that and ty to make it sound more interesting and more 'metal' or whatever. 
So essentially I do a similar thing you do, I take away some of the ease you get with modern tools, and try to make something cool with that. after that perfecting it becomes simpler.


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## ImBCRichBitch (Jan 6, 2012)

Tobi said:


> I wouldnt play a song on a nylon string acoustic though if I would otherwise play it on an electric... .


 No nylon string would be awkward. Mines a steel string with a nylon neck essentually so its a little different.


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## Trespass (Jan 7, 2012)

I've been pushing my students practice scales and technique exclusively on a steel strung acoustic for a couple years now.


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## ImBCRichBitch (Jan 7, 2012)

Trespass said:


> I've been pushing my students practice scales and technique exclusively on a steel strung acoustic for a couple years now.


 yeah one of my freinds that really got me into playing told me that it makes it easier. he plays almost only on acoustic.


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## WickedSymphony (Jan 8, 2012)

I never actually practiced for electric on an acoustic. I started straight on electric guitar, and then got a nylon string and used it to play classical finger style. Idunno, I just never cared to learn on acoustic as a means to improve on electric. 

For most stuff, I always practice both with clean channel and tons of gain. Clean practice is for getting the attack of the notes down, distorted practice for making sure muting and releasing notes are in check and everything sounds tight. Both are extremely important to improving in my opinion.


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## ImBCRichBitch (Jan 8, 2012)

WickedSymphony said:


> I never actually practiced for electric on an acoustic. I started straight on electric guitar, and then got a nylon string and used it to play classical finger style. Idunno, I just never cared to learn on acoustic as a means to improve on electric. .


 I think of it this way, you learn it on acoustic, then its so much easier when you finally play it. The only problem is when practicing taps, you cant hear all the notes.


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## WickedSymphony (Jan 8, 2012)

ImBCRichBitch said:


> I think of it this way, you learn it on acoustic, then its so much easier when you finally play it. The only problem is when practicing taps, you cant hear all the notes.



I understand the reasoning for people that practice on acoustic for electric, and I also understand that it's a common thing that people do. However, I never felt like I could've gotten more benefit out of practicing on an acoustic first. 

I'm not trying to say this method of practice doesn't have merit, just that I found other ways more effective for myself. I also use each of them for different styles so practicing on one doesn't necessarily translate well to the other (obviously with the exception of rearranging songs for one or the other). Different strokes as they say.

And as an aside, you *should* be able to hear your tapping on an acoustic very easily. If not, you need to tap harder and give it a bit more oomph when pulling off. Example:


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## stevo1 (Jan 8, 2012)

I do this too, and I actually prefer a flat board. I plan on getting a flat board on my custom that ill be getting.


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## veshly (Jan 8, 2012)

ImBCRichBitch said:


> is the powaaa over 9000?  but thats actually a good tip, brushes and sticks. Do you just alternate between the 2?



Yep, pretty much. Just did all the rudiments with brushes, tried to sustained blasts with them, anything really.


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## ImBCRichBitch (Jan 8, 2012)

stevo1 said:


> I do this too, and I actually prefer a flat board. I plan on getting a flat board on my custom that ill be getting.


 Yeah i love mine


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## phrygian12 (Jan 8, 2012)

ImBCRichBitch said:


> I was wondering if anyone out there practices like i do. I find the tabs to a song, and start playing. Pretty straight forward, right? Well not exactly, i play electric songs on a acoustic with an unradiused fretboard, so when it comes down to the time to play it electric, its much easier. Anyone else do this?




I always practice with an acoustic, it's a Seagull, pretty good sounding acoustic with sort of a high-ish action with a pretty heavy gauge set of strings on it. I first started doing this on accident. I only had 2 guitars at the time and my electric needed new strings. One day, I was trying out cascading arpeggios ideas that I got from Frank Gambale, I would practice them to a metronome on acoustic. After a while my fingers would feel sore, but after about a week or so of just 3 to 4 hours of practicing every day, I notice it started to sound kinda good, wasn't till I finally bought some damn strings for my electric and felt like i had WAY more control when playing. 

Ever since then, if there's a technique I need to work on or I'm just being really sloppy, I just bust out my acoustic and practice that shit yo.


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## Bevo (Jan 9, 2012)

Agreed acoustic practice does make the electric easier to play, its now a very light touch.

I have been playing more acoustic than electric for the last few months and after the jam this weekend I was very happy with my playing. It had a effortless feel to it, almost relaxed!

But to each their own, do what works for you..


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## Moolaka (Mar 1, 2012)

When I play with my fingers on my electric with no distortion and then switch to a pick I fly through my other songs. It really helps me economize how much effort I use with my fretting hand and my right hand becomes amazingly accurate. I know yall are talking about acoustics and such though, I'll have to try that too.

I started on a classical, it was a nightmare of a guitar. When I got my first electric I found it noisey and hard to tame. About three years ago I started getting back into classical styles and ran into the same problem- I crank the gain and "practice" now to clean up my playing. It's much harder for me to use high gain impeccably as opposed to playing acoustics. Buddy of mine kicked the gain back during practice and ended up with the same problems so now we both (he's 10x the guitarist I am) dime the gain at home...so far so good, it's done wonders for my sweeps.


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## Trespass (Mar 1, 2012)

I've been playing on my new archtop (NGD impending) with .013 gauge DR Sunbeams and high action. Because it's an archtop, I'm picking as physically as hard as I can (with a large acrylic 3mm pick) to get as much volume as possible. If you don't get a perfectly clean connection between string and fret at exactly the right time you're picking, you will not get a sound.

My picking has never been in better shape.


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## Fiction (Mar 1, 2012)

I get as drunk as possible and try to play in a straight line.. Come sober time, boy oh boy can I play.


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## iRaiseTheDead (Mar 1, 2012)

^ LOL

And I'll have to try your fingerpicking technique!


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## HOKENSTYFE (Mar 1, 2012)

Yeah pretty much the same with me, just not the tab part. I play on an acoustic first, get some ideas, then translate to an electric. Acoustic(fender starcast) Electric(normally Ibanez ARZ8000/ then RGA8). 

Figure easier to buy a new acoustic than a new ARZ800. I love my Ibani!


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## Moolaka (Mar 2, 2012)

Going from fanned frets to normal is also pain in the neck for me, which is strange because I adjusted almost instantly to a multiscale. Doesn't seem to do much but balls everything up on both.


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## Enselmis (Mar 2, 2012)

I feel like playing on an acoustic doesn't really benefit you all that much. It may be slightly more difficult to push the strings down, but I don't feel like that really helps at all when going back to electric. I think there's a point pretty early on when gaining finger strength stops being an issue, about the time when you can comfortably play bar chords. Your goal should be to use as little pressure as humanly possible while still sounding the note properly. Practicing on an acoustic doesn't really help you work towards that, in my opinion.

Edit: Not that I don't LOVE playing on an acoustic, I just don't think it's really a great practice tool.


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## Trespass (Mar 5, 2012)

Enselmis said:


> I feel like playing on an acoustic doesn't really benefit you all that much. It may be slightly more difficult to push the strings down, but I don't feel like that really helps at all when going back to electric. I think there's a point pretty early on when gaining finger strength stops being an issue, about the time when you can comfortably play bar chords. Your goal should be to use as little pressure as humanly possible while still sounding the note properly. Practicing on an acoustic doesn't really help you work towards that, in my opinion.
> 
> Edit: Not that I don't LOVE playing on an acoustic, I just don't think it's really a great practice tool.



This is a bit presumptuous, but try playing a real acoustic. Not an acoustic made to play as close to an electric as they can within that body shape (Ibanez are really bad for that). You also have to pick like it's an acoustic (heavy right hand, large picks, striving for volume, projection, dynamics and balance).

A Dreadnaught with .013s and high action will do wonders for your technique, hands down. The students I have that commit to this suggestion see jumps in their technique, all over the board.


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## Adam Of Angels (Mar 5, 2012)

Trespass said:


> This is a bit presumptuous, but try playing a real acoustic. Not an acoustic made to play as close to an electric as they can within that body shape (Ibanez are really bad for that). You also have to pick like it's an acoustic (heavy right hand, large picks, striving for volume, projection, dynamics and balance).
> 
> A Dreadnaught with .013s and high action will do wonders for your technique, hands down. The students I have that commit to this suggestion see jumps in their technique, all over the board.



Couldn't you do this on an Electric too?


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## SirMyghin (Mar 5, 2012)

I just play bass, and do most of my legato practice on it to boot. Basses are more fun anyway, although I do find getting a good solid legato easier on them. Might have something to do with being a bassist though. Guitars, even acoustic, don't generally give me much trouble consequently. It has been years since I played much acoustic though, as I don't own one that is worthwhile.


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## Enselmis (Mar 6, 2012)

Trespass said:


> This is a bit presumptuous, but try playing a real acoustic. Not an acoustic made to play as close to an electric as they can within that body shape (Ibanez are really bad for that). You also have to pick like it's an acoustic (heavy right hand, large picks, striving for volume, projection, dynamics and balance).
> 
> A Dreadnaught with .013s and high action will do wonders for your technique, hands down. The students I have that commit to this suggestion see jumps in their technique, all over the board.



I own a Larrivee LV-09 with 12's on it, hardly an Ibanez!


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## Trespass (Mar 6, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Couldn't you do this on an Electric too?



No. 

An acoustic, especially a dry acoustic, forces you to generate the volume and tone.




Enselmis said:


> I own a Larrivee LV-09 with 12's on it, hardly an Ibanez!



Right, but how hard do you pick it? With what pick?
How loud is the instrument? Have you considered raising the action to get more volume out of the instrument?

If you play in an un-mic'd, acoustic ensemble, these questions become very important. 

If you can play cleanly and efficiently in that medium, the natural compression and volume of an electric instrument seems like cheating.


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## Enselmis (Mar 6, 2012)

Trespass said:


> No.
> 
> An acoustic, especially a dry acoustic, forces you to generate the volume and tone.
> 
> ...



I use pretty big ultex picks, not jazz picks. Regardless, I still don't think this really helps enough for it to be worth doing. I think finger strength beyond a certain point is a waste of time and energy and that your whole acoustic-with-high-action bit is beyond that point.

Maybe it works for you and even some other people but I'm going to stick to using minimal force rather than crushing the strings and frets on my electric after working out on the acoustic.


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## Trespass (Mar 8, 2012)

Enselmis said:


> Maybe it works for you and even some other people but I'm going to stick to using minimal force rather than *crushing the strings and frets on my electric after working out on the acoustic.*



This can happen - I've had people overcompensate after committing to practicing on acoustic for a few weeks exclusively. But-

The point is to develop pick control, dynamic range, the ability to accent etc.

I have no problems with touch going to a scalloped neck with 9s, for example. I don't push myself out of tune.


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## Adam Of Angels (Mar 8, 2012)

Trespass said:


> No.
> 
> An acoustic, especially a dry acoustic, forces you to generate the volume and tone.



This is still a matter of controlling your picking dynamics, and has nothing to do with acoustics unless you can't tell the difference without one.


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## Trespass (Mar 8, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> This is still a matter of controlling your picking dynamics, and has nothing to do with acoustics unless you can't tell the difference without one.



No, it's a matter of developing picking dynamics, dynamic range and picking control, and I'm advocating learning and practicing on an acoustic as an incredible tool to develop these skills. Which is what this thread is about. I am not saying you cannot develop these skills playing only electric, just that most of the time it's much more difficult to do so reliably.

To a lesser degree, I'm also saying that there are things to be learned playing on an acoustic that cannot or are pointlessly difficult to learn on an electric, such as reliable volume/tone production, more refined control of dynamics than is needed in acoustic music etc.


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## somniumaeternum (Mar 8, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> This is still a matter of controlling your picking dynamics, and has nothing to do with acoustics unless you can't tell the difference without one.


 
+1. I pick using different strenghts depeding on what sound I want, whether it's on an acoustic or electric it doesn't matter.


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## Adam Of Angels (Mar 8, 2012)

Trespass said:


> No, it's a matter of developing picking dynamics, dynamic range and picking control, and I'm advocating learning and practicing on an acoustic as an incredible tool to develop these skills. Which is what this thread is about.
> 
> To a lesser degree, I'm also saying that there are things to be learned playing on an acoustic that cannot or are pointlessly difficult to learn on an electric, such as reliable volume/tone production, more refined control of dynamics than is needed in acoustic music etc.



I don't know why this post started with "No", because you went on to say what I said, but then added that an Acoustic allows you to learn these skills where an electric will not. I practice almost exclusively on an unplugged electric, and I assure you that I've learned the same skills doing so. I'm not saying your technique is wrong or bad, I'm just saying that the same can be done on an electric.


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## somniumaeternum (Mar 8, 2012)

Trespass said:


> No, it's a matter of developing picking dynamics, dynamic range and picking control, and I'm advocating learning and practicing on an acoustic as an incredible tool to develop these skills. Which is what this thread is about.


 
I think what your saying is "correct" in practice, but only because a lot of people don't put emphasis on dynamic picking on electric guitar instead of because of some innate fact that electrics are not as good to practice on. 



Trespass said:


> To a lesser degree, I'm also saying that there are things to be learned playing on an acoustic that cannot or are pointlessly difficult to learn on an electric, such as reliable volume/tone production, more refined control of dynamics than is needed in acoustic music etc.


 
Just depends on how limited the playing is on electric. I play both and I've practiced on both.. and neither are better or worse for practice imo. Saying potentially practicing X is almost pointless on electric and you can learn it only on acoustic is pretty off the mark..


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## Trespass (Mar 8, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I don't know why this post started with "No", because you went on to say what I said, but then added that an Acoustic allows you to learn these skills where an electric will not.



Let me highlight:



> No, it's a matter of *developing* picking dynamics, dynamic range and picking control, and I'm advocating learning and practicing on an acoustic as an incredible tool to *develop* these skills.



The "practice exclusively on an acoustic" is a method that will get you there much faster, with a much more reliable technique. 

I also added this in as an edit right after you quoted me. I did miss that clarification:


> Which is what this thread is about. I am not saying you cannot develop these skills playing only electric, just that most of the time it's much more difficult to do so reliably.





somniumaeternum said:


> I think what your saying is "correct" in practice, but only because a lot of people don't put emphasis on dynamic picking on electric guitar instead of because of some innate fact that electrics are not as good to practice on.



I don't see anybody in the electric guitar world except certain blues players and Guthrie Govan who play with a large and expressive dynamic range.



> Just depends on how limited the playing is on electric. I play both and I've practiced on both.. and neither are better or worse for practice imo. Saying potentially practicing X is almost pointless on electric and you can learn it only on acoustic is pretty off the mark..



Not pointless, pointlessly difficult. When you're playing an electric guitar, you are fighting against so many factors that produce an unreliable response: Pickup compression, amp compression, volume - And this is before we add in any effects/processing to the signal. 

Thin strings (anything below 11s, for example) don't have a very large dynamic range.


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## somniumaeternum (Mar 8, 2012)

Trespass said:


> Let me highlight:
> I don't see anybody in the electric guitar world except certain blues players and Guthrie Govan who play with a large and expressive dynamic range.


 
You're kidding right? Maybe volume differences aren't as present (because of stylistic elements) but attack and feel stemming from dynamic modulations are readily present. 

Govan, Gilbert, Di Meola, Satriani, Lane, MacAlpine, Gambale, hell even Yngwie has this. 



Trespass said:


> Not pointless, pointlessly difficult. When you're playing an electric guitar, you are fighting against so many factors that produce an unreliable response: Pickup compression, amp compression, volume - And this is before we add in any effects/processing to the signal.
> 
> Thin strings (anything below 11s, for example) don't have a very large dynamic range.


 
Again... what?

Honestly, this just sounds like you're pretty ignorant about details in electric guitar playing and are stuck on some old misconceptions.


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## Trespass (Mar 8, 2012)

somniumaeternum said:


> You're kidding right? Maybe volume differences aren't as present (because of stylistic elements) but attack and feel stemming from dynamic modulations are readily present.
> 
> Govan, Gilbert, Di Meola, Satriani, Lane, MacAlpine, Gambale, hell even Yngwie has this.



As a group, you have a very large pallet of dynamic ideas, especially in terms of attack, vibrato style and tone. But individually, they have a few ideas that define their sound and they aggressively stick with it. Govan, Lane are certainly the exception. From what I remember of Gilbert, he also has a decently wide expressive pallet as well.




> Again... what?
> 
> Honestly, this just sounds like you're pretty ignorant about details in electric guitar playing and are stuck on some old misconceptions.



This comes from committing to learning and investigating "guitar god" rock, metal, classical, jazz and world music on two separate instruments that I perform and teach professionally on. 

There are certainly other pretty dramatic criticisms I have of other styles (the technical perfection over expression/interpretation, downplaying of improvisation and composition in classical music; the lack of variation in form [this really bothers me] in jazz music).

These are living, developing art forms. I don't see anything wrong with criticism to bring in new levels of expression within that form.


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## ImBCRichBitch (Mar 14, 2012)

So this ran away from me. :/ anyway since i posted this i have begun playing only finger style a la frusciante, with daddario 13-56 string on acoustic and 10-52 on electric and i have noticed that what ive practiced on acoustic is much easier on electric.


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## Davey (Apr 10, 2012)

I've started practicing on acoustic so when I go to play on electric it feels like butter! Acoustics good for practicing improvising lead guitar on for that reason


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