# Prestige Ibanez vs Kiesel Custom



## icipher (Sep 7, 2016)

Anyone with play time on both care to comment?

If you stack up a $1500 Kiesel against a similarly spec'd Prestige Ibanez(similar woods, scale length, fixed bridge), what is going to typically be the better playing and sounding guitar?

Hope some of you will have some experience with this.


----------



## purpledc (Sep 7, 2016)

My choice would be the prestige. I think they make very lively guitars with excellent playablity as well as fit and finish. I have been disappointed with many of my past carvins. The only downside to the ibanez when comparing them is the lack of options.


----------



## that short guy (Sep 7, 2016)

I'm the exact opposite, I'd pick kiesle because in my opinion the quality and feel of a prestige is no where near that of a Kiesle. I could've just had some duds but the odds of 1 guy getting 3 duds is slim lol.

Plus Kiesle have way more options that can make your guitar feel/sound better. In my opinion ibanez guitars don't match what you get with a Kiesle quality wise until you get to the j customs.


----------



## Jeffbro (Sep 7, 2016)

Kiesel wins in options and looks, prestige wins in feel and quality. In the $1k range nothing can match the super wizard prestige neck, original edge, and HSH dimarzios combo. Not saying the kiesel neck and lithiums are bad.

Kiesels are not on the same level as J customs


----------



## Forkface (Sep 7, 2016)

Jeffbro said:


> Kiesels are not on the same level as J customs


I think very, very few things come close to Jcustom level.

Regarding OP. 
I think the appeal of Kiesel is that you HAVE all these options and stuff, unlike Ibanez who are somewhat limiting in their options. 
Play-ability wise they should be around same ballpark, and soundwise.. well, if you spec a Kiesel like a Prestige (basswood body generally, maple neck, rosewood fb) they should sound pretty similar as well.

If you like what Ibanez offers as stock specs you should go for that imo. I don't see the point in Spec'ing a Kiesel like an Ibanez. 

Disclaimer.
My opinion is based on my experience with Carvin Guitars, and I'm writing under the assumption that the quality of these new "Kiesels" is the same as the Old Carvin quality.


----------



## that short guy (Sep 7, 2016)

Maybe I'm just a neck snob lol. But I rarely find an ibanez neck that feels as good as a carvin/kiesle. that being said I will admit that I don't really like flat necks. So that could be one reason why I prefer the kiesle.

And I honestly don't get the hype about J customs. don't get me wrong they're great guitars but in my opinion they're not as great as everyone makes them out to be


----------



## Forkface (Sep 7, 2016)

that short guy said:


> And I honestly don't get the hype about J customs. don't get me wrong they're great guitars but in my opinion they're not as great as everyone makes them out to be


No its definitely understandable in the end they're just Ibanezes, so if you don't like the core features that make an Ibanez what it is, Jcustoms are just more expensive, better built versions of that. 

I own one, and to be frank, its not the best sounding guitar I've tried. But I've never seen a comparable attention to detail and overall construction quality, & The playability is second to none.
But then again, I do like Ibanez necks 

Sorry for derailing a bit op haha


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 7, 2016)

So the neck profile makes them J Custom quality? But then J Customs are all hype in the next post... So that means what about Kiesel? 

The better guitar is the one that feels best in your hands and sounds best to your ears. A lot of posts you see where ppl say the tone of <insert guitar> sucks is often very subjective. In some cases a guitar is universally awful but a lot of it is personal preference. Take everything you read w a grain of salt until you can try for yourself.

That said, I'd take a Prestige just because that's what I'm used to. I've played a few Carvins and they're nice but I just prefer the feel of an Ibanez. But Id take a Jackson over either.


----------



## icipher (Sep 8, 2016)

Thanks for the insight. I am specifically looking at the Ibanez S5521q which is mahogany body and fixed bridge. I can get a new one, with dimarzio dominions installed, for $1400. 

I can spec a kiesel that I want for about $1,250.

Only REAL pro i can see at this point is the kiesel will have stainless frets, which is pretty nice.

Ugh, decisions decisions.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 8, 2016)

Stainless *is* nice...


----------



## Forkface (Sep 8, 2016)

Konfyouzd said:


> So the neck profile makes them J Custom quality?


huh?
im saying that if you don't like ibanez necks you'll probably won't like Jcustoms. Doesn't matter how perfectly well its built.

for example, I don't particularly like Jackson necks for some reason, and because of that, even the most amazing Jackson Customs that Ive tried felt pretty underwhelming to me.

I Apologize though, this is all making sense to me in my head, but i might not be explaining myself properly. idk


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 8, 2016)

Forkface said:


> huh?
> im saying that if you don't like ibanez necks you'll probably won't like Jcustoms. Doesn't matter how perfectly well its built.
> 
> for example, I don't particularly like Jackson necks for some reason, and because of that, even the most amazing Jackson Customs that Ive tried felt pretty underwhelming to me.
> ...



I'm talking to the guy that literally said Ibanezes aren't on par w Kiesel until you get to J Customs. He literally posted right above you.


----------



## Forkface (Sep 8, 2016)

Konfyouzd said:


> I'm talking to the guy that literally said Ibanezes aren't on par w Kiesel until you get to J Customs. He literally posted right above you.


oh jesus my bad


----------



## that short guy (Sep 8, 2016)

icipher said:


> Thanks for the insight. I am specifically looking at the Ibanez S5521q which is mahogany body and fixed bridge. I can get a new one, with dimarzio dominions installed, for $1400.
> 
> I can spec a kiesel that I want for about $1,250.
> 
> ...



As long as you don't do anything option 50, kiesle have a... I want to say 7 day grace period where if you don't like it you can get a full refund. I can't be too sure about the time period because mine were all option 50 so no returns on that.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Sep 8, 2016)

Forkface said:


> oh jesus my bad


----------



## that short guy (Sep 8, 2016)

Konfyouzd said:


> I'm talking to the guy that literally said Ibanezes aren't on par w Kiesel until you get to J Customs. He literally posted right above you.



Crap my bad I thought you were talking to him too lol

The 2 J customs I've played had a more rounder feel to the necks than the prestiges that I've played. The difference in playability with the added attention to detail on quality put the j customs on the same level as the carvin/kiesle guitars. 

The prestige models to me don't have the amount of quality that I would say that the J Customs and kiesle have.

Just my opinion though


----------



## Mike (Sep 8, 2016)

I've had 5 carvins and sold them all because some aspect related to sound was unfavorable to me. Three of them sounded like ducks farting through wax paper on the low notes, one had no sustain, and one had little to no low end/bass. They were all too bright for my taste and notes just felt stiff and lacking any real pizaz. They played great though. Amazing quality, perfect fretwork, great factory setups, and just a pleasure to look at.

My current two prestiges sound better than any of the carvins I owned and they play just as well. Can't really say one plays better than the other, that's just personal preference. Build qualitywise they're both pretty close as well so I can't definitively say one or the other has the edge.

If someone gave me a grand and said pick one, I'd buy an Ibanez. They're both good, but for me the Ibanez's play, sound, and feel how I expect a guitar to.


----------



## knet370 (Sep 8, 2016)

i had a ct6 with gorgeous top i think i paid around 1400-1500 and i have a s2020xav that was around 750usd during that time(a long time ago). they are on par with each other. both have good sustain, very stable woods, very sturdy built like a tank. what im saying is you wont regret buying either. but if it involves a huge price difference, id just choose the cheaper of the two. that is based on my own experience but might not apply to you.


----------



## Hollowway (Sep 8, 2016)

Well, one way to look at it is what is setting the prince for sch of them. With Kiesel, the cost beyond the basics (i.e. wood, labor - arguably the same in USA and Japan- and hardware) consists of customer service time (phone orders to decide on specs, etc), and the multitude if configurable options. Prestiges don't have those things. So their costs are going to come from elsewhere. Assuming that they are making the same amount of net profit, that would indicate that prestiges are getting more attention on QC, which they're known for. Now, I have no idea if that's the case, but Ibanez is saving money by not offering all those choices, and having to deal with the customer. So they are spending the money elsewhere. Given that they're known for exceptionally high attention to detail and playability, I always attributed the price to that. So under those assumptions, I'd assume that the prestiges have a higher quality level. But pretty much zero options beyond choosing a model.


----------



## Fathand (Sep 8, 2016)

I'll throw in a curveball and suggest you check out FGN guitars too (they should have a distributor in the states). Lower priced than Ibanez Prestige, but same factory and QC.


----------



## Jaek-Chi (Sep 8, 2016)

In my opionion, Ibanez every day of the week. If you like the feel of ibanez', get one. You wont have the customisation options, or quite the individuality of the specific guitar like you can get from a Kiesel. But least you know you are certain to get a well made, quality guitar. If the same could be said about Kiesel maybe it would be a different story.

Also, to 'that short guy' - it's spelt Kiesel hahaha


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Sep 8, 2016)

Both make excellent guitars, though I guess it just comes down to price point and whether you're willing to wait a few months for a kiesel (provided you're not buying one used or in stock) imo. Personally I'd choose Kiesel over Ibanez purely for the aesthetic possibilities.


----------



## laxu (Sep 8, 2016)

The current range of Ibanez Prestige models is not to my liking really and the J-Customs are not worth the kind of money they ask in Europe at least. Even many Prestige models are bordering on being too expensive IMO. I don't feel J-Customs are significantly better than a fully decked out Kiesel.

I sold my 1989 Ibanez RG550 with upgraded pickups after I bought a used Carvin C66. The Carvin plays just as well as the Ibanez ever did but looks much, much nicer. Neck is of course very different. Soundwise they were just different, neither was better or worse.

I also own a Kiesel Aries AM7 which also plays really well and is built very nicely but not perfectly. I'm not a huge fan of the Kiesel Lithiums as I feel they could use more low mids. I compensate by boosting those a bit on my Axe-Fx 2. There is nothing wrong with them otherwise and they hang just fine with any of the pickups in my other guitars, they are just voiced for clarity rather than beefy mids.

Kiesel has lots of customization options and does multiscales much better than Ibanez. I don't really like how Kiesel does burst colors but otherwise their finishes are very nice. The stainless steel frets are also nice to have.


----------



## cip 123 (Sep 8, 2016)

I've owned both, while they are very comparable in terms of quality, I would have to go for Carvin just because you can choose your options. Ibanez do nothing that I actually want.

I owned an RG2550 and have a JB200C. If anything I would say the finish on the Carvin is better, and along with the options it has it trumps my RG, stainless frets, neck thru, but it feels very similar. I highly recommend the Carvin JB200 if you go with Carvin.


----------



## russmuller (Sep 8, 2016)

They're both very quality instruments; I've owned a few of both. Ibby necks are thinner and the Lo-Pro Edge bridges are my all time favorite floating trems.

I love Prestige guitars, but for $1,500 I'd probably go with the Kiesel so that I can have the options I want. If it was going to have a floyd rose, I'd go with Ibanez though.


----------



## jerm (Sep 8, 2016)

I own both and they both great, but both different.

Main difference:

Kiesel are neck thru, stainless frets, rounder neck, string spacing is more narrow. Not all of these are pros/cons, just differences.


----------



## USMarine75 (Sep 8, 2016)

If you can, play both and buy whichever you prefer. I know you'd have a Kiesel spec'd, but it would give you an idea of the playability.

FWIW... a good or bad setup will greatly affect your opinion. I have a Schecter Loomis with a perfect setup and you would pick that probably 99 out of 100 times over my Mayones Custom before it was properly set up.

I own a Kiesel SCB7 and a ton of Ibby's and I don't think you can go wrong either way. I'd put my Ibanez JP4 against any other company's custom shop model...


----------



## icipher (Sep 8, 2016)

I really appreciate all the responses I am getting here. Sounds like these guitars will be very close in terms of quality and playability. The stainless frets are really tempting, and might push me into the kiesel.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Sep 8, 2016)

Even though SS frets are awesome, I'd take a good Prestige over a good Carvin/Kiesel.


----------



## jerm (Sep 8, 2016)

When I first got my Carvin I was really amazed by the SS frets and said I'd never get another guitar that didn't have them.

Then I got my UV777PBK and changed the ideology. SS frets are nice, but they're definitely not a necessity. Good MIJ Ibanez frets are awesome when you steel wool and polish them up.


----------



## USMarine75 (Sep 8, 2016)

And if you don't play like Zakk Wylde then nickel frets will last a long time. And when they finally wear out then have SS frets installed. Besides you'll probably gear flip long before the frets ever wear out haha....


----------



## oracles (Sep 8, 2016)

The Kiesel's I've played have all been fairly underwhelming instruments. They're built perfectly fine, but I've never played one that I'd buy over any Prestige I've ever picked up. 

The biggest factor that drives me away from Kiesel is neck stability. A friend's brand new DC800 had the neck laminates separate within the first 3 months of him owning it, despite never being taken out of a humidity and temperature controlled room.


----------



## Rawkmann (Sep 8, 2016)

I vote Prestige. I bought into the Kiesel hype last year, ordered a DC600, and came away unimpressed overall. All the Prestiges I've owned over the years had a better 'feel' to them than the Kiesel.


----------



## purpledc (Sep 8, 2016)

Jeffbro said:


> Kiesel wins in options and looks, prestige wins in feel and quality. In the $1k range nothing can match the super wizard prestige neck, original edge, and HSH dimarzios combo. Not saying the kiesel neck and lithiums are bad.
> 
> Kiesels are not on the same level as J customs



But if they have the same woods.............,


----------



## MattThePenguin (Sep 8, 2016)

icipher said:


> Thanks for the insight. I am specifically looking at the Ibanez S5521q which is mahogany body and fixed bridge. I can get a new one, with dimarzio dominions installed, for $1400.
> 
> I can spec a kiesel that I want for about $1,250.
> 
> ...



I would take that Ibanez so damn fast how is this a question hahah


----------



## cip 123 (Sep 8, 2016)

MattThePenguin said:


> I would take that Ibanez so damn fast how is this a question hahah



Because they'd both be quality instruments.


----------



## noUser01 (Sep 8, 2016)

The Archspire guys played Ibanez Prestige guitars for years, and now they're with Kiesel. I think that says something.


----------



## Jeffbro (Sep 8, 2016)

ConnorGilks said:


> The Archspire guys played Ibanez Prestige guitars for years, and now they're with Kiesel. I think that says something.



A few unknown guitar players with kiesel vs all time great guitar players and dozens of well known pros with ibanez (vai satriani gilbert etc have stuck with Ibanez for literally decades)


----------



## oracles (Sep 9, 2016)

ConnorGilks said:


> The Archspire guys played Ibanez Prestige guitars for years, and now they're with Kiesel. I think that says something.



The truss rod route on one of Dean's builds isn't even routed straight.


----------



## DeanLamb (Sep 9, 2016)

oracles said:


> The truss rod route on one of Dean's builds isn't even routed straight.



It isn't? Which one?


----------



## oracles (Sep 9, 2016)

Burl topped build I believe, but if I had've been sent that progress picture where the graphite rods aren't routed straight, and nor is the channel for the truss rod, I'd have cancelled my build.


----------



## icipher (Sep 9, 2016)

oracles said:


> Burl topped build I believe, but if I had've been sent that progress picture where the graphite rods aren't routed straight, and nor is the channel for the truss rod, I'd have cancelled my build.



I wonder how this was rectified....


----------



## jc986 (Sep 9, 2016)

I wouldn't put much stock in a player's endorsement for the most part. A lot of the time it just simply means they got offered a better deal by said company. 

I'm very happy with my Kiesel (it's every bit as well made as any Prestige I've ever played), and have only had good experiences with Ibanez once you get to their higher end stuff. Heck I just bought an Iron Label that I prefer to some of the Prestige models I've played in the past.


----------



## noUser01 (Sep 9, 2016)

Jeffbro said:


> A few unknown guitar players with kiesel vs all time great guitar players and dozens of well known pros with ibanez (vai satriani gilbert etc have stuck with Ibanez for literally decades)



I think we have very different definitions of "unknown".

Plus that's a pretty weak argument. By comparison, you could say all of those guys are unknown compared to all the top selling international artists who use Fender and Gibson. You could say Gibson are the best because Led Zeppelin is nearly 3 times as popular as Vai and Satch combined. You could say that all Gibson or Fender artists combined are more popular and have made more music sales than Ibanez. That argument doesn't hold much weight in any context when it comes to definitively saying if a brand is "better" or not. Popularity of artists does not make a guitar the best. Not only that, but Kiesel is a MUCH newer company than Ibanez is, so of course they aren't in the hands of every player ever.

Look at how many players can match the skill (or even play better than) guys like Vai and Satch on instruments like Suhr (Guthrie), Fender (Yngwie, Rick Graham), Charvel (Guthrie), Kiesel (Archspire), Ernie Ball (Jason Richardson)... Now this is completely excluding composition skill, but if all these players with incredible chops are using instruments besides Ibanez, couldn't that mean that any of these brands are at least just as good if not better at SOMETHING (in this case playability) than Ibanez is? You can say "It's just personal preference", but then that also puts a hole in your initial argument. You can say "They got better deals with those companies" which could definitely be true, but would they play any of those guitars if they were so much worse than Ibanez guitars? Kiesel got their instruments into the hands of some of the most technical players in modern metal, I don't think any of those guys who spend so much time on speed, playability, economy of movement, attention to detail etc. would take a guitar that played poorly.

Keep in mind that I'm a big Ibanez guitar - my main 7 and 8 are both Ibanez Prestige models - but that argument is just weak.



oracles said:


> The truss rod route on one of Dean's builds isn't even routed straight.



Sounds like my old 2228.


----------



## purpledc (Sep 9, 2016)

ConnorGilks said:


> The Archspire guys played Ibanez Prestige guitars for years, and now they're with Kiesel. I think that says something.



LOL, yeah its says they got a better deal. You really cant attest to a brands quality based on their endorsees. People leave one brand and pickup another all the time and rarely is it because they just liked another brands guitars better. Many artists compromise on which instruments they play live simply because of the payday or free instruments.



ConnorGilks said:


> Not only that, but Kiesel is a MUCH newer company than Ibanez is, so of course they aren't in the hands of every player ever.
> 
> .



Kiesel is not a new brand. They were previously just "Carvin" which has been making and importing instruments almost as long as Ibanez. Since 1947 actually.



ConnorGilks said:


> I don't think any of those guys who spend so much time on speed, playability, economy of movement, attention to detail etc. would take a guitar that played poorly.
> .



No, most endorsed artists wouldn't play a guitar that plays poorly. But many artists don't play off the shelf instruments. Many of them are custom made for them or at the very least heavily fluffed and buffed by their guitar techs to play as good as possible. So which brands are better for consumers rarely means the same thing as what brands are best for endorsees.


----------



## noUser01 (Sep 9, 2016)

purpledc said:


> LOL, yeah its says they got a better deal. You really cant attest to a brands quality based on their endorsees. People leave one brand and pickup another all the time and rarely is it because they just liked another brands guitars better. Many artists compromise on which instruments they play live simply because of the payday or free instruments.



That argument easily applies to both brands.



> Kiesel is not a new brand. They were previously just "Carvin" which has been making and importing instruments almost as long as Ibanez. Since 1947 actually.



Of course, but it's also a rebranding that comes with a whole new target market and business strategy. They also saw lots of success with a lot of Vai and Satriani's peers. When Kiesel becamse a thing, they instantly got their guitars into the hands of a very specific market that is quite different than the old Carvin target market.



> No, most endorsed artists wouldn't play a guitar that plays poorly. But many artists don't play off the shelf instruments. Many of them are custom made for them or at the very least heavily fluffed and buffed by their guitar techs to play as good as possible. So which brands are better for consumers rarely means the same thing as what brands are best for endorsees.



That same process will apply to any instrument they get, it's a moot point. Plus you can do all of that to a Squier, but if it's not a good guitar then you're only going to get it so far.


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime (Sep 10, 2016)

I'm a proud owner of a Carvin DC7X and TL60. A while back, I had a friend's RG1527 for a few weeks and did a full setup, fret polish, new strings, etc. on it, but in a direct comparison it just wasn't on the same level as my Carvins in feel, fretwork, or fit/finish. Granted, the 1527 is still a killer guitar and well worth the money they go for used, but over $1000-1200 I can't really see myself going with anyone but Carvin. Can't really comment on tone since the pickups were all different, but each of the guitars were at least lively and resonant unplugged. 

Stainless frets and an oiled neck are $100 total on the Carvin builder, which is a steal for how big of a difference in feel they make on a given instrument. Plus if you're considering Ibanez anyway, you could spec out a similar guitar with a basic finish and any choice of woods for the same or a lower price OR trick it out


----------



## downburst82 (Sep 10, 2016)

icipher said:


> I wonder how this was rectified....



It was rectified by them putting a fretboard on it and calling it all good...

Somewhat related my #1 is a prestige s2170 that I got pleked and refretted in stainless..so there is always that option if you wanted an ibanez with stainless frets


----------



## Snarpaasi (Sep 10, 2016)

If you like the core features of most Ibanez guitars, then go for it. Basswood body, thin maple neck with floyd, rosewood board and somewhat black finish are the "standard" specs. Of course they have variations and some newer models look nice.

A friend of mine has few J customs and Prestiges and tbh I find no difference between them. I don't understand the hype about J customs but hopefully somebody notice the difference. Old (and even new) Prestiges are generally really well built guitars but I still prefer my Carvin over all of them. Carvin standard neck profile is the most comfortable I've ever had, satin finish is probably the best option they offer in addition to stainless steel frets.


----------



## oracles (Sep 10, 2016)

One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is that you will get absolutely hosed on resale with the Kiesel vs the Prestige, no matter what you spend on it. There's very little in the way of incentive for people to spend on used Kiesel's when a few hundred or more gets them one with the exact specs they want instead of compromising on the specs you chose.


----------



## laxu (Sep 10, 2016)

jerm said:


> I own both and they both great, but both different.
> 
> Main difference:
> 
> Kiesel are neck thru, stainless frets, rounder neck, string spacing is more narrow. Not all of these are pros/cons, just differences.



Depends entirely on the model. They have a thinner neck profile available, several bolt-on models and string spacing depends on the bridge chosen.



icipher said:


> I wonder how this was rectified....



Probably not at all. While it's unfortunate I don't think it's a good reason to throw away the neck as something that minor is unlikely to have any real effect on how well the truss rod functions. The carbon fibre rods should keep it rigid and stable as will the laminates. I can only guess that the neck has not been mounted entirely straight on the CNC machine that cuts the slot.



oracles said:


> One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is that you will get absolutely hosed on resale with the Kiesel vs the Prestige, no matter what you spend on it. There's very little in the way of incentive for people to spend on used Kiesel's when a few hundred or more gets them one with the exact specs they want instead of compromising on the specs you chose.



In my experience they don't actually drop that much in price compared to other brands. Basically anything that isn't Fender or Gibson is usually going to sell for roughly 70% of its new price. Old Carvins might go for less but not necessarily the newer Kiesels. You'll take a much bigger hit when you get to truly boutique price guitars.


----------



## noise in my mind (Sep 10, 2016)

I have experience with both brands.

Carvin dc127. Issues: Botched paint on back of the guitar.
Carvin dc800. Issues: None
2nd Carvin dc800. Issuse: Uneven SS frets. Twisted neck
Carvin dc7x. Issues: None

Ibanez rg1527. Issues: None
Ibanez rga121. Issues: None
Ibanez rg2228. Issues: None
Ibanez rg652. Issues: None

My 2 cents would be to go with Ibanez Prestige. I really do love Karvin when they get it right though.


----------



## cip 123 (Sep 10, 2016)

Jeffbro said:


> A few unknown guitar players with kiesel vs all time great guitar players and dozens of well known pros with ibanez (vai satriani gilbert etc have stuck with Ibanez for literally decades)



Pssst...They get paid to.

If you wanna go for that stupid argument lets go for this one Carvin/Kiesel - Jason Becker, Frank Gambale, Greg Howe, Allan Holdsworth



oracles said:


> One thing that hasn't been mentioned so far is that you will get absolutely hosed on resale with the Kiesel vs the Prestige, no matter what you spend on it. There's very little in the way of incentive for people to spend on used Kiesel's when a few hundred or more gets them one with the exact specs they want instead of compromising on the specs you chose.




Resale value on Prestige isn't actually that great where I am. I see 7's go for £3-400 seen a few 2228's go for £600, 6 string RG's are generally round the £5-600 mark. I really struggled to sell my prestige RG. It was very nice but not for me. 



Personally for me Ibanez doesn't offer the specs I like. If they have something for you go for it. It'll be faster and YOU WILL have an excellent instrument. 

The kiesel imo will have a little more personal touch for your specs, however if you're going to spec it like an ibanez...get an ibanez.


----------



## purpledc (Sep 10, 2016)

ConnorGilks said:


> That argument easily applies to both brands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Of course it applies to both brands which was exactly my point. Who endorses what means nothing about a piece of gears quality. As for a rebranding its still not a new company. If fender decided today to be fathead guitars and only sell to people with larger than average skulls it doesnt mean they are Now a new company that just exploded on the scene out of nowhere. Ibanez has shifted its focus several times over the years. They are still ibanez and still have those years of experience. And I dont really see how carvins market and target audience changed. They simply added more options and models of guitars. Its still the same custom direct ordering business model they have always done. And the last bit about it being a moot point? Its not if you understand the point I was making to begin with which is that you are right an endorsee wont play a guitar that doesnt play well but that has nothing to do with what you will be buying at guitar center. So it makes no sense to defend a brand using its endorsees as a testament to quality when you very likely are not going to get the same attention to detail as their instruments get.


----------



## flaherz09 (Sep 30, 2016)

I've owned both as well, and me personally, I like Kiesel more. It's all personal choice though no matter how much debate there is!


----------



## purpledc (Oct 1, 2016)

oracles said:


> Burl topped build I believe, but if I had've been sent that progress picture where the graphite rods aren't routed straight, and nor is the channel for the truss rod, I'd have cancelled my build.



I have to agree. if they sent me that pic I would have asked for a new neck or canceled. I don't like how the stiff rod is right on a lamination point. Now the sad thing is no one really knows if their guitar was made any better as much of the joints and routing is under the skin if you will. For all I know I could lift the fretboard on my Edwards and find a damn Charleston chew in there.


----------



## Jeffbro (Oct 1, 2016)

OP asked if similar specs which plays and sounds better

sound and pickups - both decent, debatable
neck shape and width - player's preference, debatable
neck finish - prestige satin finish wins, not debatable
fret finish/leveling and action - prestige is generally better, not debatable


----------



## purpledc (Oct 1, 2016)

The finish of the neck is debatable as you can get the same satin finish on a Kiesel. And that is if you even like satin finishes.


----------



## marcwormjim (Oct 1, 2016)

purpledc said:


> I could lift the fretboard on my Edwards and find a damn Charleston chew in there.



My favorite post in some time.


----------

