# Steel Panther's Satchel patch removed due to petition against name



## ImNotAhab (Jul 10, 2018)

From UG:
_A petition was launched by a female guitarist called Jessica Fennelly to have Steel Panther guitarist Satchel's new TC Electronic pedal called "Pussy Melter" taken down._

_Jessica said in the description:_
_"As a Female Guitarist, I'm shocked by the poor marketing decisions found on TC Electronics website for their signature sound from 'Satchel' offensively named the 'Pussy Melter.' There is an entire page dedicated to this sound."

The post continues to quote the device's official description, which reads:

"Wanna make a physical impact on your audiences, with an epic delay tone? Then Satchel's got you covered! When we met up with Steel Panther's oh-so-humble guitarist, he had only one condition: that the tone be as wet as the ladies on the front row!
"With 'Pussy Melter' that’s exactly what you get: a delay tone, which perfectly nails that heavy metal lead tone, whilst simultaneously ensuring that the janitor ain't going home early! So if glam rock guitar solos and wet floor signs are your idea of a good time, then 'Pussy Melter' for Flashback Delay is definitely the TonePrint for you!"


Jessica argued the following:
"Not only is this description extremely vulgar and unnecessary, but TC Electronic went out of their way to actually pay someone to write a marketing description for this.
"I can't imagine why a well-known company such as TC Electronic would feel that it's OK to use such an offensive, obviously sexist, and outdated marketing technique to sell a product. In addition, why would they choose to support an artist such as Satchel.
"This TC Electronic product promotes and implies the ideas that:
"A) The guitar world is dominated by heterosexual males and marketing for guitars/guitar products should be aimed at these males.
"B) These males will decide to use their musical influence to sexually manipulate heterosexual women fans.
"C) That the guitar world is excluded from the professional boundaries enforced by society to ensure that no product offends, excludes, or harms a particular group of people.

"I found this on the TC Electronic website, researching their products to write a review article. As a result, I declined this particular project due to the insensitive, backwards nature of the TC Electronic Page. Please help me get this removed from the TC Electronic Website and their products. Thank you."
_

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/new...dal_called_pussy_melter_to_be_taken_down.html

I agree its a crass name but it is really in keeping with Steel Panthers long running persona/satire of 80s glam scene excess. To me it is a person getting mad at a joke which seems a bit pointless, especially considering the whole point of their gimmick is that you are supposed to roll your eyes at them. I think the implications put forward are quite a stretch but I would be interested to hear anyone else's opinions.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 10, 2018)

I bet Spaced has some pretty strong opinions about this.


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## Randy (Jul 10, 2018)

Satchel would be better served having his pedal built by Metasonix


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## Hollowway (Jul 10, 2018)

Did TC consider sending her an email that said, “It’s satire.”? Steel Panther is literally on the exact same side of the fence as this lady. They choose satire to make fun of the 1980’s musical machismo. It’s the equivalent of someone being offended by Stephen Colbert’s persona on The Colbert Report.


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## wat (Jul 10, 2018)

lol at "obviously sexist"

Just another example of feminists looking for any method possible to expand the boundaries of their "safe space" into everyone else's lives, business, etc. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 10, 2018)

To paraphrase the top quote on UG: "she's about 40 years too late considering there's a litany of pedals named big muff, hairy muff, etc"



Hollowway said:


> Did TC consider sending her an email that said, “It’s satire.”? Steel Panther is literally on the exact same side of the fence as this lady. They choose satire to make fun of the 1980’s musical machismo. It’s the equivalent of someone being offended by Stephen Colbert’s persona on The Colbert Report.


*shhhh* quit trying to use logic. People are idiots. The colbert report proved that, because idiot liberals were offended by it, and idiot conservatives thought it was serious, just like Team America.


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## Strobe (Jul 10, 2018)

It is exactly as crass and misogynistic as Steel Panther, which as @Hollowway aptly observes, is completely tongue in cheek.

In case anyone stumbles on this and is not familiar with the Steel Panther catalog.


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## JohnIce (Jul 10, 2018)

Damn, I support her 100%. Sexist "jokes" is just sexism excused, it's exactly as fucking wrong. Saw Steel Panther with some female friends once and they said it was the most threatening concert experience they'd had, because the band basically made thousands of sweaty metalheads turn on them and start harassing them on the spot, thinking they were in on the "joke". I have another friend, a professional lighting engineer, who worked on a stage when they played and their crew thought she was there to show her tits to the crowd and dragged her to the front of the stage. Fuck them and their gimmick. Sincerely.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 10, 2018)

Steel Panther is the greatest 80s band that never played in the 80s.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Jul 10, 2018)

Randy said:


> Satchel would be better served having his pedal built by Metasonix


Hey now. Eric at Metasonix makes some killer pedals for their specifically destructive purpose. But if Metasonix released a pedal with the name "Pussy Melter", no one would bat an eye. (Probably because legitimately no one aside from analog synth nerds even know that Metasonix exists. )


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## NotDonVito (Jul 10, 2018)

literal who


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## Mathemagician (Jul 10, 2018)

Huge Steel Panther fan here. But sheesh that’s just lazy marketing.

On a personal level I know that I think it’s hilarious to have a pedal that basically says “engage pussy melting”.

But I’m a guy laughing from the comfort of his home at a dumb joke.

I’m not a woman that has to deal with random men’s bullshit every day. And slapping that across the actual pedal, it’s lazy comedy.

Sucks for anyone who sees this without knowing the context. I would 100% understand why people would find it sexist.

Tl;dr - it’s SUPER crass, like more than I would have expected steel panther to be able to get away with on a licensed product. So TC electronics better be willing to deal with the backlash, it’s kind of obvious this would happen.


Edit: still funny AF tho.


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## lemeker (Jul 10, 2018)

Apparently she's not in on the Steel Panther gig. 

I feel she's overreacting a bit. Is it sexist, perhaps. But her points....A) Is probably true, but there are more women players these days. However, I don't see why a company wouldn't market to their strongest audience. B) Well, I'm sure a lot of folks who play have gotten laid because they played songs for women they liked in the past. I assume that means we used our musical influence etc. and finally C) I find laughable, really.

I still think some people take certain things way too seriously. If she made a patch called D**k Destroyer, I don't think male guitarists would be up in arms about it.


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## spudmunkey (Jul 10, 2018)

She's proclaiming that this is all about giving another weapon to heterosexual men over heterosexual women in the audience... Is she ignoring the market of female guitar players and lesbian audience members? It's for them too. Girl power!


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## Soya (Jul 10, 2018)

Mathemagician said:


> I’m not a woman that has to deal with random men’s bullshit every day. And slapping that across the actual pedal, it’s lazy comedy.



I feel like at the moment I'm a man dealing with some random woman's bullshit.


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## spudmunkey (Jul 10, 2018)

Would she have still complained if it was a tremolo/wah pedal called "The Throbbing Cock"? Likely, I imagine.


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## Hollowway (Jul 10, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> Damn, I support her 100%. Sexist "jokes" is just sexism excused, it's exactly as fucking wrong. Saw Steel Panther with some female friends once and they said it was the most threatening concert experience they'd had, because the band basically made thousands of sweaty metalheads turn on them and start harassing them on the spot, thinking they were in on the "joke". I have another friend, a professional lighting engineer, who worked on a stage when they played and their crew thought she was there to show her tits to the crowd and dragged her to the front of the stage. Fuck them and their gimmick. Sincerely.



Yeah, you bring up a good point. As a white male, it’s easy for me to laugh at the joke. And if we all just laughed at the joke, and were truly “post-gender” then it would be completely harmless. But, I can see how some people would use it as an excuse to be misogynistic. In truth, TC Electronics handled it well. But, I still would like to know if those complaining about it really know SP is satire. And, I think the first email should have been to TC Electronics explaining her view. It’s exceptionally difficult to know where to draw the line on these things. Like was pointed out, “Big Muff” has been around for years. As have waaaay worse names. So TC may not have realized the hole they were digging themselves into. And, I’d be willing to bet that there ARE female employees working there.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 10, 2018)

Its a joke from a joke band, have people lost their sense of humor?


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## Vyn (Jul 10, 2018)

Even if Steel Panther is satire, it's dated as fuck. There's much better humour out there other than "Blow my load at the Glory Hole." Good on TC for being sensible on this one.


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## Edika (Jul 10, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> Sexist "jokes" is just sexism excused, it's exactly as fucking wrong.



I would agree with you on this if Steel Panther weren't so exaggerated in the sexism department as to make it abundantly clear that this is meant to discourage people from thinking like that. I mean 80's glam bands, while engaging in sexist behavior would never openly admit something like that. Whoever takes this at face value has a lot of issues to work out themselves. I'm not saying the examples you said are ok and they should not be criticized. I do enjoy their music, I laugh at their lyrics for the excess and the "stupidity" and "shallowness" they portray but if they'd be serious even slightly I'd be with you 100%. Now if that makes me sexist and as fucking wrong then I guess I have a lot of apologies to convey to my wife and female friends and coworkers.

EDIT: However I will agree they've overdone the joke. I think they should have stopped after the second record. They could have just made a serious band and write the same type of music but with serious lyrics. Or even better a parody of their parody band becoming serious and leaving behind their decadent lives for whatever religion had them enlightened!


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## Demiurge (Jul 10, 2018)

I'm dumbfounded that nobody at the company would see this coming a mile away. If it wasn't a musician saying something, it would have been one Concerned Parent seeing one at the Guitar Center downtown taking their brat to get strings.

Look, I understand that this band is very much tongue-in-cheek and whatnot, but you can't really stick a broadsheet explaining their shtick next to every picture of the pedal. Regardless, a Venn diagram of people who get offended by little things and people who don't understand satire- it's a circle.


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## Xaios (Jul 10, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> Would she have still complained if it was a tremolo/wah pedal called "The Throbbing Cock"? Likely, I imagine.


Engage to engorge.


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## spudmunkey (Jul 10, 2018)

Xaios said:


> Engage to engorge.



Only for "Rock-Hard Rock"


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## JohnIce (Jul 10, 2018)

Edika said:


> I would agree with you on this if Steel Panther weren't so exaggerated in the sexism department as to make it abundantly clear that this is meant to discourage people from thinking like that. I mean 80's glam bands, while engaging in sexist behavior would never openly admit something like that. Whoever takes this at face value has a lot of issues to work out themselves. I'm not saying the examples you said are ok and they should not be criticized. I do enjoy their music, I laugh at their lyrics for the excess and the "stupidity" and "shallowness" they portray but if they'd be serious even slightly I'd be with you 100%. Now if that makes me sexist and as fucking wrong then I guess I have a lot of apologies to convey to my wife and female friends and coworkers.
> 
> EDIT: However I will agree they've overdone the joke. I think they should have stopped after the second record. They could have just made a serious band and write the same type of music but with serious lyrics. Or even better a parody of their parody band becoming serious and leaving behind their decadent lives for whatever religion had them enlightened!



I think in most instances when someone is offended by a joke, it's not from lack of "getting that it's a joke". To make a crude analogy, a white comedian painting himself in blackface and poking fun at black people is also clearly a joke. Understanding that it's a joke/satire isn't really why people have a problem with blackface.

Don't know if you're familiar with the term "lampshading" in screenwriting, but it's basically when the writers of for example a sitcom make characters so cartoonishly OTT sexist/racist or whatever (think 2 1/2 Men, Big Bang Theory, Barney from How I Met Your Mother etc.) that the audience can easily laugh at how sexist/racist they are. But it's really just a tool the writers use to keep telling sexist/racist jokes all day instead of writing something more clever. Steel Panther is basically that, in music form.


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## Edika (Jul 10, 2018)

I didn't know it was called lampshading but I have seen it in several sitcoms. I do understand and agree that it is lazy writing and somewhat not funny. 

I will say the racist/blackface analogy is quite crude but I'll also agree that Steel Panther do seem to get too much into character when playing live, from what I've seen.

I don't know, comedy and satire seem to be always on a tight rope with comedians pushing boundaries and depending on social climate it will have a backlash or it will be accepted or both. What's being considered funny always changes and the humor from a few decades back would be considered quite offensive these days and rightly so. Modern stand up comedians will say some really extreme stuff but when they get into trouble they'll either apologize or say they were just joking.

I do wonder however, regardless if the jokes are lazy and it is regarded as a chance to tell sexist jokes, if they actually have no impact rather than the shock factor is it worth protesting against it? I mean the audience of Steel Panther won't exactly go and harass women and treat them in the way they're portrayed by the band. Or replicate the jokes in real life or expect women to act like they do in their video clips and lyrics. I don't know it might be a guilty pleasure for some people, me included, and it might reinforce some stereotypes or subconsciously play out a fantasy that no one in their right mind make a reality in real life.

I'm not exactly trying to defend, even if it might seem so, as yes a lot of the stuff is over the top. But I don't consider them harmful either. I know the description of the specific pedal and it's name would be too much for people not knowing the back story of the band and it might not have been a smart idea from TC. I think I would have less problem if the specific individual went after the product as a joke in really poor taste rather than a serious 100% genuine sexist one.


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## Steinmetzify (Jul 10, 2018)

WAAAAAAH girly feels


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## JohnIce (Jul 10, 2018)

Edika said:


> I do wonder however, regardless if the jokes are lazy and it is regarded as a chance to tell sexist jokes, if they actually have no impact rather than the shock factor is it worth protesting against it? I mean the audience of Steel Panther won't exactly go and harass women and treat them in the way they're portrayed by the band. Or replicate the jokes in real life or expect women to act like they do in their video clips and lyrics. I don't know it might be a guilty pleasure for some people, me included, and it might reinforce some stereotypes or subconsciously play out a fantasy that no one in their right mind make a reality in real life.
> 
> I'm not exactly trying to defend, even if it might seem so, as yes a lot of the stuff is over the top. But I don't consider them harmful either. I know the description of the specific pedal and it's name would be too much for people not knowing the back story of the band and it might not have been a smart idea from TC. I think I would have less problem if the specific individual went after the product as a joke in really poor taste rather than a serious 100% genuine sexist one.



In my experience, it can definitely trickle down. I mean, I've experienced first hand how my female friends got treated at a Steel Panther show, by the audience AND the crew, but that's anecdotal. I think the impact of jokes that are sexist is the conviction that sexism is harmless as long as it's just a joke. But the problem is a) Most bullying and humiliation is based on making "fun" of someone, and b) You can't control how many others will also make fun of a person for the same reasons you did. When something about your identity or appearance is considered "funny", chances are you'll be hearing the same jokes from different people every day for your entire life, and you'd eventually get as sick of it as the girl who started this petition was.


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## narad (Jul 10, 2018)

_Emily Reo wrote, “ew what the fuck, i thought making pedals that break all the time was bad enough.”_

Daaamn.


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## Randy (Jul 10, 2018)

At the risk of sounding overly centrist on this issue, is it possible to think the woman pursuing this is being overly prudish, while also being fed up with Steel Panther's schtick and finding TC's willingness to use that branding a totally stupid move?

If so, notch one in that column for me. Fuck everyone on all sides of this.


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## Avedas (Jul 10, 2018)

1. TC went over the top to the point of being more tacky than funny satire. They could have taken a more subtle approach to Steel Panther's schtick.

2. Americans are still treating social issues like an allergic overreaction.

just LMAO at this entire thing


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## mongey (Jul 10, 2018)

I hate the steel panther stchik . its way over done and dated as fuck .it's all a bit pathetic to me

but

do we really need a world where every single person has to get along. cant someone just be considered a fuck wit. I consider them fuck wits so I don't support them . you don't like it, fine say so,blast them of FB if it makes you feel better .but the fact it exists isn't discrimination . its just a terrible joke,and a terrible decision form TC


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## Dayn (Jul 10, 2018)

That's not satire. It's a parody, but it's a deliberately sexist parody. You can parody ridiculous things without actually embodying it.


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## Xaios (Jul 10, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> Only for "Rock-Hard Rock"


"Cock-rock," you mean?


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## bhakan (Jul 10, 2018)

Dayn said:


> That's not satire. It's a parody, but it's a deliberately sexist parody. You can parody ridiculous things without actually embodying it.


This is sorta how I feel about Steel Panther. It doesn't feel like a satire where the express purpose is to make fun of what they're parodying. It feels like a caricature. I see their persona more as lighthearted jab at hair metal and its excess than a scathing criticism.


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## ElRay (Jul 10, 2018)

This is a prime example of something I’m trying to teach my teenager: You can be 100% correct, and still be 100% wrong. 

Holloway is 100% correct:


Hollowway said:


> Did TC consider sending her an email that said, “It’s satire.”? Steel Panther is literally on the exact same side of the fence as this lady. They choose satire to make fun of the 1980’s musical machismo. It’s the equivalent of someone being offended by Stephen Colbert’s persona on The Colbert Report.



But because if the reality of crap like this: 


JohnIce said:


> Damn, I support her 100%. Sexist "jokes" is just sexism excused, it's exactly as fucking wrong. Saw Steel Panther with some female friends once and they said it was the most threatening concert experience they'd had, because the band basically made thousands of sweaty metalheads turn on them and start harassing them on the spot, thinking they were in on the "joke". I have another friend, a professional lighting engineer, who worked on a stage when they played and their crew thought she was there to show her tits to the crowd and dragged her to the front of the stage. Fuck them and their gimmick. Sincerely.



He’s also 100% wrong. 

It’s just like the use of the words/phrases “colored”, “nigger”, “don’t be a pussy”, “man-up” etc. from a purely rational sense, they shouldn’t be offensive, but because of how the phrases have been used for decades to centuries, they do carry an offensive/aggressive overtone. 

Carlin took the same view regarding his jokes from the 70’s. At its core, the material is just as funny, but performing it would be truly insensitive. 

It also doesn’t help that the arrogantly ignorant misogynistic bigots are emboldened by Trump and more likely than they have been for decades to throw it in everybody else’s face.


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## Hollowway (Jul 10, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> I think in most instances when someone is offended by a joke, it's not from lack of "getting that it's a joke". To make a crude analogy, a white comedian painting himself in blackface and poking fun at black people is also clearly a joke. Understanding that it's a joke/satire isn't really why people have a problem with blackface.
> 
> Don't know if you're familiar with the term "lampshading" in screenwriting, but it's basically when the writers of for example a sitcom make characters so cartoonishly OTT sexist/racist or whatever (think 2 1/2 Men, Big Bang Theory, Barney from How I Met Your Mother etc.) that the audience can easily laugh at how sexist/racist they are. But it's really just a tool the writers use to keep telling sexist/racist jokes all day instead of writing something more clever. Steel Panther is basically that, in music form.



Well, certainly some of this is based on how it’s done. Satire, as we’re talking about, is hard to get right. It’s like scar and. Do sarcasm wrong, and you just sound like an asshole. So, blackface in and of itself isn’t offensive. Robert Downey Jr’s character in Tropic Thunder was a risky move, but struck the right balance to not be offensive. Same with C. Thomas Howell in Soul Man. 

And I agree with you that bullying is making fun of someone. But, it’s also true that most humor is specifically making fun of some other group or person. Someone is always going to be offended. Sometimes it’s ok, if it’s done well, but generally the rule is a majority cannot make fun of a minority. But minority making fun of majority is ok, and minority-minority and majority-majority is ok. It just has to be a calculated risk.

If I were in TC’s shoes, I don’t know that I’d find it that’s obvious that the name of the pedal was going to create such backlash. In and industry with bands named Anal Cunt and Dying Fetus, lyrics about killing cops, amps named Brown Eye, Dirty Shirley, Pink Taco, or Fucking Fucker, and pedals named Big Muff Pi, Swollen Pickle and Super Hard On, and guitar companies named Vagina, do we really want to Monday morning quarterback this and say, “Whoa, TC, how did you not see that was crossing the line?”

I think that there IS no clairvoyance to things like this. At best, we can try our best to make an impact, and, if we have offended others, do what we can to rectify it. I don’t fault TC at all. I think it’s good they dealt with it well after the blowback, but I can’t fault them for having not seen it beforehand.


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## Hollowway (Jul 10, 2018)

On another note, leave it to a group of nerdy-ass ERG musicians in a tiny corner of the internet to take a topic like this and turn in into a full blown discourse on social psychology, branding, and PR.  That’s why I love this place.

“Hey Hollowway, what do you talk about on that Sevenstring forum all the time? Seven string guitars?” 
Me: “On occasion we’ll talk about seven string guitars, yes.”


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## spudmunkey (Jul 10, 2018)

I'm on another forum where the "funny pictures" thread was re-named something like "The funny math thread...which sometimes has mildly amusing images" because of the conversations that would take up multiple pages after someone would post am image showing incorrect geometry/algebra or some physics problem.


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## narad (Jul 10, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> “Hey Hollowway, what do you talk about on that Sevenstring forum all the time? Seven string guitars?”
> Me: “On occasion we’ll talk about seven string guitars, yes.”



On a slow news day.


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Jul 10, 2018)

I feel like I’m reading a 34 year-old thread about the release of Spinal Tap’s “Smell the Glove” album. Our ss.org bottom-feeders may as well be debating the phallic implications and impositions of the guitar itself.


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## DudeManBrother (Jul 10, 2018)

It was a dick move to call the thing a pussy melter; but it took balls to do it. Satchel is a cocky guy and worked abreast with TC here. I’m saying they’re both assholes, but am happy to see they nipped this in the bud. 


Penis.


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## spudmunkey (Jul 10, 2018)

DudeManBrother said:


> Penis.


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## Dayn (Jul 10, 2018)

bhakan said:


> This is sorta how I feel about Steel Panther. It doesn't feel like a satire where the express purpose is to make fun of what they're parodying. It feels like a caricature. I see their persona more as lighthearted jab at hair metal and its excess than a scathing criticism.


That's what I originally thought they were about. But it becomes difficult to call something a "joke" when there's no indication that what they're doing is anything but deliberately embodying the stereotype beyond parody. Particularly the earlier anecdotal experience raised.

Hell, imagine a parody hick country band pulling a Michael Richards on-stage as a joke. When does it stop becoming parody and when do we say "um... are you still joking, or...?". Saying "lol sexism, faggots, pussy, niggers, amirite?" isn't even deadpan humour. It becomes deliberately offensive for the sake of it and gives you legitimate pause to think whether they're serious or just really, really, really dumb and clueless about context.


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## narad (Jul 10, 2018)

Dayn said:


> That's what I originally thought they were about. But it becomes difficult to call something a "joke" when there's no indication that what they're doing is anything but deliberately embodying the stereotype beyond parody. Particularly the earlier anecdotal experience raised.
> 
> Hell, imagine a parody hick country band pulling a Michael Richards on-stage as a joke. When does it stop becoming parody and when do we say "um... are you still joking, or...?". Saying "lol sexism, faggots, pussy, niggers, amirite?" isn't even deadpan humour. It becomes deliberately offensive for the sake of it and gives you legitimate pause to think whether they're serious or just really, really, really dumb and clueless about context.



I went to a civil war reenactment sort of thing once where they'd say racially insensitive things but you basically signed a waiver walking in talking about how they try to give an authentic representation of the times and naturally the values of the year 2000 are not the same as they were in 1865. It's making you uncomfortable and _it's supposed to_. And of course you had both for/against slavery represented. A waiver for a rock concert sounds odd, but it's a pretty analogous setup -- you're entering a zone where 80s values are riding high. I don't see an issue with that. Of course people attending the concert shouldn't have those values pushed on them, or wind up being treated like some 80s groupie (if that's not your thing).

But when this goes into products that exist outside of their music and shows, there's no longer any requirement that you're in that context of parody/satire/what-have-you. To me, that is the issue. Even adding the product to your catalog is blurring those lines.


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Jul 10, 2018)

Headlines/ss.org virtue-fodder from later this week:

_Phil Anselmo (Pantera) Weighs In On #PussyMelter controversy: “I’ve Been There.”

Female Fans Accuse Russ “Satchel” Parrish (Steel Panther) of Sexual Misconduct in Wake of “Pussy Melter” Controversy: “It stopped being funny when he didn’t call.”

Satchel out of Steel Panther: Band Retiring “Sexploitative Image”, Apologizes to Fans. Farewell Tour Dates, Las Vegas Residency Announced

Russ “Satchel” Parrish Announces Retirement of Character: “Long Past-Due”, in Wake of Sudden Unprofitability.

Satriani Weighs In on Steel Panther, Announces TeepeeThree Guitar Retreat

Brian “Head” Welch Condemns Steel Panther “Pussy Melter” Controversy on Instagram: “They need Jesus.” New Solo Album Teased

Jim Dunlop Effects Announces Retirement/Re-Branding of “Swollen Pickle” Pedal, Proceeds Given to Women’s Shelter Charity

UG Interviews Shred Goddess Nita Strauss: “Steel Panther, companies [should be] ashamed.”

TC Electronic Announces Susan B Anthony TonePrint: Groovy Delay Effect For a Good Cause
_


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## feraledge (Jul 11, 2018)

I hate that I can’t even click on these kinds of threads anymore because, judged on a LOT of replies, SSO looks like some 4chan Incel offshoot and it makes me fucking repulsed. 
Dudes, quit getting your fucking boxers in a defensive bunch every time a woman speaks her mind and try listening. 
I think Satchel on his own is more clearly cartoonish, more clearly satire. Steel Panther on stage? It’s hard to distinguish if it’s satire or tribute. 
Either way, “pussy melter” is like a punchline to a joke that a widely available TC product isn’t going be privvy too. Could have easily gone his usual self-depreciating route to better effect. 
I’d assume people from TC just didn’t think about it from any other perspective other than people who know Satchel is an over the top character.


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## Avedas (Jul 11, 2018)

How long until we get special edition Guitars of Color?


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## Avedas (Jul 11, 2018)

feraledge said:


> I hate that I can’t even click on these kinds of threads anymore because, judged on a LOT of replies, SSO looks like some 4chan Incel offshoot and it makes me fucking repulsed.
> Dudes, quit getting your fucking boxers in a defensive bunch every time a woman speaks her mind and try listening.
> I think Satchel on his own is more clearly cartoonish, more clearly satire. Steel Panther on stage? It’s hard to distinguish if it’s satire or tribute.
> Either way, “pussy melter” is like a punchline to a joke that a widely available TC product isn’t going be privvy too. Could have easily gone his usual self-depreciating route to better effect.
> I’d assume people from TC just didn’t think about it from any other perspective other than people who know Satchel is an over the top character.


I can't speak for anyone else but for me a lot of these very America-centric social issues get conflated as Anglosphere social issues or even global social issues when it's really not the case. Then I/we/non-American English speakers get judged for speaking our opinions online if they don't conform to what Americans deem as correct even when the corresponding American social issues have next to no relevancy in our respective countries (looking at you Affirmative Action). I'm not saying that this really applies in this particular case, but it gets tiring being held to irrelevant American moral standards.


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## feraledge (Jul 11, 2018)

Avedas said:


> I can't speak for anyone else but for me a lot of these very America-centric social issues get conflated as Anglosphere social issues or even global social issues when it's really not the case. Then I/we/non-American English speakers get judged for speaking our opinions online if they don't conform to what Americans deem as correct even when the corresponding American social issues have next to no relevancy in our respective countries (looking at you Affirmative Action). I'm not saying that this really applies in this particular case, but it gets tiring being held to irrelevant American moral standards.


Nailed it, I mean every other country has nipped misogyny in the bud, right?! Right?


----------



## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

feraledge said:


> Nailed it, I mean every other country has nipped misogyny in the bud, right?! Right?



Yea, especially Japan lol


----------



## Steinmetzify (Jul 11, 2018)

feraledge said:


> I hate that I can’t even click on these kinds of threads anymore because, judged on a LOT of replies, SSO looks like some 4chan Incel offshoot and it makes me fucking repulsed.
> Dudes, quit getting your fucking boxers in a defensive bunch every time a woman speaks her mind and try listening.
> I think Satchel on his own is more clearly cartoonish, more clearly satire. Steel Panther on stage? It’s hard to distinguish if it’s satire or tribute.
> Either way, “pussy melter” is like a punchline to a joke that a widely available TC product isn’t going be privvy too. Could have easily gone his usual self-depreciating route to better effect.
> I’d assume people from TC just didn’t think about it from any other perspective other than people who know Satchel is an over the top character.



You know what repulses me?

That America constantly tells itself it’s a culture that’s extremely open minded, but to get that way we have to be cowed by fear. 

There’s literally nothing here except someone’s feelings of outrage, and her being offended by something she read on the fucking internet. 

When did ‘stocks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me’ stop being relevant? 

You don’t like it? Don’t fucking look at it. Stop protesting everything you don’t like about America, you can’t change every fucking thing you hate because the second you open your mouth, you’re going to offend someone. 

There’s always going to be something out there that people don’t agree with and a lot of it DOES need to be changed. 

You know, shit like murder, rape, child molestation, animal cruelty and so on and so forth. 

The outrage a person feels about the name of a fucking preset on a guitar pedal doesn’t even rate; to me it’s some whiny person with nothing better to do than try and create drama, just like every other ‘offended person’ out there is constantly doing anymore. 

Sorry man, we’ve always gotten along, and no disrespect intended. I didn’t see anything 4chan in this thread; if anything it was way better than I thought it was going to be.


----------



## Avedas (Jul 11, 2018)

feraledge said:


> Nailed it, I mean every other country has nipped misogyny in the bud, right?! Right?


That seems rather irrelevant.


----------



## Steinmetzify (Jul 11, 2018)

Just told this story to my wife. Read her the description, and the woman’s post. 

Her response:

“How is that offensive?”

From a woman’s own mouth.


----------



## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

steinmetzify said:


> When did ‘stocks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me’ stop being relevant?



Probably about the time "boys will be boys" stopped being relevant. This and more in the next edition of, "Things grandma used to say."


----------



## Steinmetzify (Jul 11, 2018)

narad said:


> Probably about the time "boys will be boys" stopped being relevant. This and more in the next edition of, "Things grandma used to say."



Ok man. So what you’re saying is that anytime anyone gets offended (read butthurt) about anything we need to stop and have a reality check on what we might be doing wrong as a culture?


----------



## PunkBillCarson (Jul 11, 2018)

steinmetzify said:


> Just told this story to my wife. Read her the description, and the woman’s post.
> 
> Her response:
> 
> ...




I won't lie, I did exactly the same thing. She laughed at it and asked how much it costs and I told her it was taken down. She said "well that sucks. Oh well, there's other delays out there, aren't there?" I can't help but feel like those last few words could do EVERYONE some good.

Now just so we're clear, you realize we're about to get our online assholes shredded by a few people, right? Fully expect a few to act as though our posts have acted as a severe provocation and their responses will likely and quite largely outweigh what we brought to this thread, which are merely testimonies from women.


----------



## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

steinmetzify said:


> Ok man. So what you’re saying is that anytime anyone gets offended (read butthurt) about anything we need to stop and have a reality check on what we might be doing wrong as a culture?



No, but I don't think saying, "You don't like it, tough!" is the kind of ideology underpinning an enlightened society. We obviously draw that line anyway -- we wouldn't have "the 'n'-word" otherwise -- so I'm not sure why people have to get their panties in a bunch just because someone is getting offended / suggesting that line should be moved over a bit. 

Especially true if YOU are not part of the demographic that even would possibly be offended. 

Super tired of poseur macho-ness about toughening up though. There's a word for not caring about what other people feel -- it's called being an asshole.


----------



## PunkBillCarson (Jul 11, 2018)

narad said:


> No, but I don't think saying, "You don't like it, tough!" is the kind of ideology underpinning an enlightened society. We obviously draw that line anyway -- we wouldn't have "the 'n'-word" otherwise -- so I'm not sure why people have to get their panties in a bunch just because someone is getting offended / suggesting that line should be moved over a bit.
> 
> Especially true if YOU are not part of the demographic that even would possibly be offended.
> 
> Super tired of poseur macho-ness about toughening up though. There's a word for not caring about what other people feel -- it's called being an asshole.




I mean don't get me wrong, not every single situation is meant to be toughed out as it were, but it's starting to get to the point where mere reality is triggering people. Legit fucking triggering. You're perfectly fine to express whatever opinion you have on anything these days, but now it's affecting the way people act and perform and not always in a good way. There needs to be some sort of middle ground and we're getting nothing, because BOTH sides are taking the shit and pushing it entirely too far, so each time you get a push back, it's putting the blame on the other side full force instead of meeting in the middle as it were. It's not like you're not allowed to be offended, but at some point, you've really got to ask yourself "okay, am I really going to let this fuck with me that much?"

Someone calls a black guy a "nigger." Perfectly okay to be upset with and I definitely wouldn't judge him for kicking the other guy's ass. That is a rational response, however, you'll have some black guys who won't say anything, they'll walk on or they'll at least confront that person. All perfectly understandable responses. I don't necessarily look at violence as an answer to anything, but I do understand if it came down to violence in that situation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... Some shit you just need to let slide off your back, especially since there is ACTUAL violence against women. The outlook on women needs to change, I just don't think that we're necessarily starting in the right place. Okay to be upset with it, but to make such a huge fuss about someone's personal tone preset and not even taking the time to understand the concept behind the cheesy ass music and lyrics, I mean fuck, is research gone? Is everything to be taken out of context these days and demonized? The question I have is when is it too far on either side? Are we going to have to stop talking to one another just to avoid offending people? When is too much too much, and that's a question that needs to be answered ALL the way around, not just in this particular case.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

steinmetzify said:


> Just told this story to my wife. Read her the description, and the woman’s post.
> 
> Her response:
> 
> ...



Hey, can you ask her about reproductive rights? Is the “c word” still off limits? 

Whew, really glad we can straighten all this out. Who would have thunk that all this time we just needed to ask steinmetzify’s wife, The Pope of Women, what was up?

You wouldn’t happen to have a black friend would you? I’d really like to get this whole racism thing figured out. ASAP.


----------



## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

PunkBillCarson said:


> I mean don't get me wrong, not every single situation is meant to be toughed out as it were, but it's starting to get to the point where mere reality is triggering people. Legit fucking triggering. You're perfectly fine to express whatever opinion you have on anything these days, but now it's affecting the way people act and perform and not always in a good way. There needs to be some sort of middle ground and we're getting nothing, because BOTH sides are taking the shit and pushing it entirely too far, so each time you get a push back, it's putting the blame on the other side full force instead of meeting in the middle as it were. It's not like you're not allowed to be offended, but at some point, you've really got to ask yourself "okay, am I really going to let this fuck with me that much?"



Well of course sometimes I think things go too far, but when these topics come up on SSO there's always people essentially claiming that someone is being offended for the sake of being offended. So basically, *I* don't see what the big deal is, therefore, you must not actually be offended. And I think that's a shitty attitude. 

I don't care where people actually fall on the reactionary barometer, but ffs, let women be offended at things that are directed at women, etc. without saying, yo, listen up, reasonable guy here -- I looked at the potentially offending material and I don't know you, but you're a "whiny person with nothing better to do than try and create drama."


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## Avedas (Jul 11, 2018)

narad said:


> No, but I don't think saying, "You don't like it, tough!" is the kind of ideology underpinning an enlightened society. We obviously draw that line anyway -- we wouldn't have "the 'n'-word" otherwise -- so I'm not sure why people have to get their panties in a bunch just because someone is getting offended / suggesting that line should be moved over a bit.
> 
> Especially true if YOU are not part of the demographic that even would possibly be offended.
> 
> Super tired of poseur macho-ness about toughening up though. There's a word for not caring about what other people feel -- it's called being an asshole.


I agree with this. I just don't like having to walk on eggshells when concerning things that really shouldn't be a big deal. And of course now I again have to stress that I'm not saying the "Pussy Melter" isn't a big deal. There is a balance to be had.

As for the article in question, there are two things she said that absolutely rub me the wrong way.

_In addition, why would they choose to support an artist such as Satchel._

"My personal opinion and feelings should dictate who this company that is completely unrelated to me conducts their business and who should be allowed to make a living within that channel."

_Please help me get this removed from the TC Electronic Website and their products._

"Please be my personal army."

Even though I more or less agree with her argument, the level of entitlement she shows is nothing I can respect. It's not her place to speak ill of Satchel's (literal) character, and why does she need to incite a crusade against TC rather than just communicating with them like a decent adult?


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY (Jul 11, 2018)

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Headlines/ss.org virtue-fodder from later this week:
> 
> _Phil Anselmo (Pantera) Weighs In On #PussyMelter controversy: “I’ve Been There.”
> 
> ...


No input from Corey Taylor on this one?


----------



## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

Avedas said:


> I agree with this. I just don't like having to walk on eggshells when concerning things that really shouldn't be a big deal. And of course now I again have to stress that I'm not saying the "Pussy Melter" isn't a big deal. There is a balance to be had.
> 
> As for the article in question, there are two things she said that absolutely rub me the wrong way....



Yea, there was a certain Tumblr-esque feel to the prose and call to arms that was cringey, but separating style from content, if people are tired of companies marketing stuff like this then good on them for getting together and getting a loud enough voice to get something done.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Avedas said:


> *It's not her place* to speak ill of Satchel's (literal) character



I’m sure it’s just a wording thing, but this right here is some prime time cringe.


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## Avedas (Jul 11, 2018)

Well according to Satchel's twitter they're rebranding the pedal as the "Butthole Burner" which is totally ok.


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## Avedas (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I’m sure it’s just a wording thing, but this right here is some prime time cringe.


I'm not sure what you took from it, but my point is that nobody should be shit-talking anybody else on a professional level.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Avedas said:


> Well according to Satchel's twitter they're rebranding the pedal as the "Butthole Burner" which is totally ok.



You just wait until the Spicy Food Lovers SJWs have thier say.


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## Stealth7 (Jul 11, 2018)

Avedas said:


> Well according to Satchel's twitter they're rebranding the pedal as the "Butthole Burner" which is totally ok.



Which is fitting seeing how butthurt people are over this, lol!


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Avedas said:


> I'm not sure what you took from it, but my point is that nobody should be shit-talking anybody else on a professional level.



So in other words, be a good little girl and keep your opinions to yourself or at least address me in the manor in which I, the MAN, choose to be addressed. 

She didn’t throw a Molotov Cocktail through his window. Nor were there calls for capital punishment as far as I’m aware. She had an opinion. She voiced the opinion. Many agreed with this opinion. Seems to have worked fine. I doubt Satchel has “lost” anything from this, in fact he might have gained insight into how his act makes some folks feel.


----------



## blacai (Jul 11, 2018)

I do love Steel Panther and I know they are making fun of the 80s Macho Metal scene. But this we are no longer in the 80s, so although I will be always with the humour and satire, I understand nowadays marketing should not cross some "red lines" because the target audience is not always the one you expect. 
We may know sexism is bad and we don't take Steel Panther serious, but in the concerts I saw, there were a lot of young boys I am sure they had no idea about how to treat people with respect...
It is like the comics Cyanide and Happiness, they get lot of hate and criticism because all of the comics they make are beyond correctness.


----------



## Avedas (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> So in other words, be a good little girl and keep your opinions to yourself or at least address me in the manor in which I, the MAN, choose to be addressed.
> 
> She didn’t throw a Molotov Cocktail through his window. Nor were there calls for capital punishment as far as I’m aware. She had an opinion. She voiced the opinion. Many agreed with this opinion. Seems to have worked fine. I doubt Satchel has “lost” anything from this, in fact he might have gained insight into how his act makes some folks feel.


I mean, this is literally the point I was making earlier. My specific wording gets interpreted by Americans to be something that is absolutely not what I said due to their own social perceptions and I consequently get judged for it. If I really have to restate this, my opinion is that nobody should be disparaging anyone on a professional level and the fact she did in such a _"I can't believe a company would associate with the likes of you"_ manner lowers the amount of respect I have for her. I would hold this opinion regardless of who said it, regardless of their gender, regardless of their race. She can voice her opinion all she wants, but I would prefer that people in general be professional adults about it rather than starting righteous crusades. As I said I more or less agree with her entire argument but apparently that's not important.

Again I have no idea why every talking point has to come back to some sort of gender/racial/whatever bias, but here we are. At the end of the day I still have no idea who this lady is, I don't particularly care about Satchel or the pedal, and my TC Electronic Polytune doesn't work properly.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Avedas said:


> I mean, this is literally the point I was making earlier. My specific wording gets interpreted by Americans to be something that is absolutely not what I said due to their own social perceptions and I consequently get judged for it. If I really have to restate this, my opinion is that nobody should be disparaging anyone on a professional level and the fact she did in such a _"I can't believe a company would associate with the likes of you"_ manner lowers the amount of respect I have for her. I would hold this opinion regardless of who said it, regardless of their gender, regardless of their race. She can voice her opinion all she wants, but I would prefer that people in general be professional adults about it rather than starting righteous crusades. As I said I more or less agree with her entire argument but apparently that's not important.
> 
> Again I have no idea why every talking point has to come back to some sort of gender/racial/whatever bias, but here we are. At the end of the day I still have no idea who this lady is, I don't particularly care about Satchel or the pedal, and my TC Electronic Polytune doesn't work properly.



Just because it doesn’t have a real effect on your life, doesn’t mean that certain issues don’t come with legitimate social baggage.

You can play the “oh, I’m not from around here” card for so long. I’m not going to pop over to a Japanese forum and tell Japanese women, or men, what is or isn’t worthy of respect, because I don’t really have a working knowledge of the social issues and histories over there.

I’m not calling you some kind of monster, I even gave you the benefit of the doubt in my original reply to you.


----------



## Avedas (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just because it doesn’t have a real effect on your life, doesn’t mean that certain issues don’t come with legitimate social baggage.
> 
> You can play the “oh, I’m not from around here” card for so long. I’m not going to pop over to a Japanese forum and tell Japanese women, or men, what is or isn’t worthy of respect, because I don’t really have a working knowledge of the social issues and histories over there.
> 
> I’m not calling you some kind of monster, I even gave you the benefit of the doubt in my original reply to you.


As I did mention I still have no idea what you took from my statement because of my specific wording or whatever. Your "prime time cringe" comment only signaled that you were judging me based on it.


----------



## Hollowway (Jul 11, 2018)

Am I only one bewildered by what I CAN joke about? I’m not a SJW, but I am very empathetic to others sensibilities, and I really don’t want to make anyone bummed out, or propagate any negative “isms,” but sometimes I feel cornered. Case in point: I was rating a couple donuts, and said, “‘Man, I want to have a third one, but I don’t wanna go into a diabetic coma!” It was just a joke, of course. But my friend got kind of mad, cuz her kid has diabetes (type 1), and admonished me for making fun of a disease, and for not understanding that eating too much sugar has nothing to do with getting type 2 diabetes. I apologized, of course, and now eat donuts freely, since I won’t get diabetes. No, but seriously, I don’t joke about diabetes any more. But, I was like, DANG, every joke I make is about something or someone. And, I don’t do it with malicious attempt. But, I honesty don’t know where to draw the line. Like I said before, I wouldn’t have thought this could draw an angry eye, given all the other names on the market in music. I mean, it’s not like Apple called the new iPhone the pussy melter. So yeah, I don’t get pissed about this stuff, but I do get confused, and reluctant to joke about anything in groups other than my close friends, for fear of putting my foot in my mouth.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Jul 11, 2018)

Avedas said:


> I have no idea why every talking point has to come back to some sort of gender/racial/whatever bias



Unless you plan on quarantining yourself from western culture, you may wish to grow accustomed to this.


----------



## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> I mean, it’s not like Apple called the new iPhone the pussy melter.



That'd be more appropriate for Samsung.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> *I’m sure it’s just a wording thing*, but this right here is some prime time cringe.



See the bold section.



Avedas said:


> As I did mention I still have no idea what you took from my statement because of my specific wording or whatever. Your "prime time cringe" comment only signaled that you were judging me based on it.



You don’t know, because you’re not as well acquainted with the social dynamics of the United States.

Telling women what thier “place” is, is an American pastime in a not so great way.

Again, if you feel like you’re getting steamrolled in a particular discussion for not understanding gender or race relations in the United States, maybe look into it a little. Having a more informed opinion is never a bad thing.


----------



## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> She didn’t throw a Molotov Cocktail through his window. Nor were there calls for capital punishment as far as I’m aware. She had an opinion. She voiced the opinion. Many agreed with this opinion. Seems to have worked fine. I doubt Satchel has “lost” anything from this, in fact he might have gained insight into how his act makes some folks feel.


She petitioned against it, that's hardly "voicing an opinion". In fact, she apparently didn't petition against the name, she petitioned against the product, which is simply an attack on the livelihood of TC Elecronics/Satchel. 

She's actually pretty far away from voicing an opinion, she's trying to hurt them for making a joke, which is quite commong among the young left. It's not about discourse, it's about hurting the other as much as possible, be it from "doxxing", "harassing" or trying to get the person fired/inhibiting their income.

A well adjusted adult would say something along the lines of "Well, they are dickheads", and vote with his/her wallet. A child throws a tantrum.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> She petitioned against it, that's hardly "voicing an opinion". In fact, she apparently didn't petition against the name, she petitioned against the product, which is simply an attack on the livelihood of TC Elecronics/Satchel.
> 
> She's actually pretty far away from voicing an opinion, she's trying to hurt them for making a joke, which is quite commong among the young left. It's not about discourse, it's about hurting the other as much as possible, be it from "doxxing", "harassing" or trying to get the person fired/inhibiting their income.
> 
> A well adjusted adult would say something along the lines of "Well, they are dickheads", and vote with his/her wallet. A child throws a tantrum.



Unfortunately, in this world, no one gives a shit unless they might lose some money.


----------



## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> A well adjusted adult would say something along the lines of "Well, they are dickheads", and vote with his/her wallet. A child throws a tantrum.



If you're a minority you don't get to vote with your wallet. Women are super minorities in the guitar space, and cutting out that entire demographic was never going to hurt TC's sales in the first place. That doesn't make their marketing here any less antiquated or off-putting.


----------



## prlgmnr (Jul 11, 2018)

In a way I'm a little bit envious of guys who don't find something like a pedal being called "Pussy Melter" excruciatingly embarrassing.


----------



## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Unfortunately, in this world, no one gives a shit unless they might lose some money.


This is true and I agree with you about it being very unfortunate.
However, protesting against literally anything I don't like, doesn't make me look more serious, it makes people lose respect for my cause.


----------



## feraledge (Jul 11, 2018)

steinmetzify said:


> There’s literally nothing here except someone’s feelings of outrage, and her being offended by something she read on the fucking internet.


You were saying?


----------



## AxeHappy (Jul 11, 2018)

In what bizarro-world universe is a petition not voicing one's opinion? And then seeing if others agree with your opinion? 

And then having those people say that they are going to vote with their dollars?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> This is true and I agree with you about it being very unfortunate.
> However, protesting against literally anything I don't like, doesn't make me look more serious, it makes people lose respect for my cause.



I tend to have more respect for those who get something done, than those who do nothing. 

Even if I don’t particularly agree with a cause, I can at least respect trying to make a change in earnest. 

Lashing out in impotent rage is fun and all, but it doesn’t really do anything.


----------



## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

AxeHappy said:


> In what bizarro-world universe is a petition not voicing one's opinion? And then seeing if others agree with your opinion?
> 
> And then having those people say that they are going to vote with their dollars?


This might be subjective but I feel petitioning something skips the natural process and is very one-sided. You can't protest in favor of something, whereas the market gives you a clear metric to measure whether people like it or not.

Speaking of market, the people who sign the petition are people who probably aren't the target demographic anyway. I would argue they don't even play guitar. If I was evil I'd argue the only thing they play is, in fact, the victim card.


----------



## wat (Jul 11, 2018)

Can someone explain how the name of the delay patch is sexist? I doubt it.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2018)

Wasn't there already a thread for this? Or was it just randomly mentioned in another thread?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

wat said:


> Can someone explain how the name of the delay patch is sexist? I doubt it.



Even if someone did, would you really care?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Even if someone did, would you really care?


Probably not. It's the name of a toneprint. It's not like the pedal even has a digital readout for others to see what the toneprint is called.


----------



## wat (Jul 11, 2018)

woman has orgasm from guitar solo in _The Pick of Destiny_; countless portrayals of women swooning over rockstars in movies, shows, etc: 
_No problem. _

Delay patch called "Pussy Melter": 
*S E X I S T *


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2018)

wat said:


> woman has orgasm from guitar solo in _The Pick of Destiny_; countless portrayals of women swooning over rockstars in movies, shows, etc:
> _No problem. _
> 
> Delay patch called "Pussy Melter":
> *S E X I S T *


I think she got offended by the notion that Satchel wanted a delay that was as wet as a vagina in the front row of a Steel Panther show.


----------



## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Speaking of market, the people who sign the petition are people who probably aren't the target demographic anyway. I would argue they don't even play guitar. If I was evil I'd argue the only thing they play is, in fact, the victim card.



Well I mean...one of the names there, Michelle Zauner, is the multi-instrumentalist in Japanese Breakfast, which puts out well-received albums, have millions of youtube watches, and have shown up on "top 50 albums of the year" lists.

So not to get personal but I'd argue more of a bonafide musician than you?


----------



## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I think she got *offended* by the notion that Satchel wanted a delay that was as wet as a vagina in the front row of a Steel Panther show.


Hightlighting the important part.
Being offended is a very subjective and sometimes arbitrary thing. People should think really deep and hard about whether or not they want to go down the rabbit hole of "if it offends me, you're in trouble!" policy.


----------



## JohnIce (Jul 11, 2018)

steinmetzify said:


> Ok man. So what you’re saying is that anytime anyone gets offended (read butthurt) about anything we need to stop and have a reality check on what we might be doing wrong as a culture?



Not necessarily, but if you'd allow me to rephrase that as: "anytime anyone gets offended about anything, it can't hurt to think about where they're coming from before dismissing it" I'd say it's a pretty spot-on description of what functioning empathy looks like. I love that attitude in people  I can't think of any time I've ever thought: "Ugh, can't stand that guy, he's too considerate and not enough of an asshole".


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Hightlighting the important part.
> Being offended is a very subjective and sometimes arbitrary thing. People should think really deep and hard about whether or not they want to go down the rabbit hole of "if it offends me, you're in trouble!" policy.



I don’t really see anyone “in trouble” here though. Maybe I missed it, but were people asking for Satchel or TC to be physically harmed or jailed? Were they seeking significant financial compensation from them? Was there a push for new legislation barring effects with certain names?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Hightlighting the important part.
> Being offended is a very subjective and sometimes arbitrary thing. People should think really deep and hard about whether or not they want to go down the rabbit hole of "if it offends me, you're in trouble!" policy.


Deep and hard? That's offensive, and you really should word your comments better. 

Also: PHRASING!


----------



## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don’t really see anyone “in trouble” here though. Maybe I missed it, but were people asking for Satchel or TC to be physically harmed or jailed? Were they seeking significant financial compensation from them? Was there a push for new legislation barring effects with certain names?


As I said, the petition is aiming at the product, not the name. You may make your own conclusions from that. 

In other news: This is a less extreme case of what is happening in the west (mostly in America by the way). If you haven't heard; it is (or will be soon?) illegal to "misgender" someone in Canada, as it is considered a hate crime. This is a legal extension of the whole "I'm offended" game.

But riddle me this: When is something offensive? At what point does something offensive become a crime? How do you quantify "being offended" ?


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> As I said, the petition is aiming at the product, not the name. You may make your own conclusions from that.
> 
> *In other news: This is a less extreme case of what is happening in the west (mostly in America by the way). If you haven't heard; it is (or will be soon?) illegal to "misgender" someone in Canada, as it is considered a hate crime. This is a legal extension of the whole "I'm offended" game.*
> 
> But riddle me this: When is something offensive? At what point does something offensive become a crime? How do you quantify "being offended" ?


Alright, I'm gonna have to pull it out of retirement...


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> "Ugh, can't stand that guy, he's too considerate and not enough of an asshole".



Sounds like a beta cuck libtard snowflake. Everyone knows real high energy alpha males have no need for feelings because everything is a joke for SJWs to get offended over.


----------



## Exchanger (Jul 11, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> And I agree with you that bullying is making fun of someone. But, it’s also true that most humor is specifically making fun of some other group or person. Someone is always going to be offended. Sometimes it’s ok, if it’s done well, but generally the rule is a majority cannot make fun of a minority. But minority making fun of majority is ok, and minority-minority and majority-majority is ok. It just has to be a calculated risk.


I think there is much more to humor than targeted mockery (absurd jokes, puns, comedic plots...). And when there is mockery, it can be in a healthy way (making fun of one's corruption or despicable behaviors, denting the smooth image a company or political party tries to give itself to turn attention away from their actions...) in which case it's called satire. And then some venture in edgier darker themes, take upon race, gender, sexism and yet still there is room for smart jokes in here : if you can turn it into actual criticism of these phenomenons. And yes it has become much harder to do these days because all the alt-right and affiliated say the exact same things but with a different level of interpretations.

In the case of the Pussy Melter, to me it feels exactly the same as this :





Who in their sane mind would think seriously that using a specific effect will suddenly make you sexually attractive ?
It's ok to like or not like Steel Panther, might be over the top, we got the joke now move on etc... I like the suggestion someone made here of them pretending to go clean and religious in a parodic way...but I don't think these guys are trying to empower sexism. Even if they're not 100% parody, wanting to get laid doesn't mean you think women are inferior or should be paid less or treated like shit.

Now according to one post in this thread, there have been harassment issues in the crowd at SP shows, and even by the crew. If this is true then this should be adressed as such, maybe the band should make statements as to where the joke stop and where unacceptable behaviors start...but I'd say attacking the pedal's name is completely missing the point.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> As I said, the petition is aiming at the product, not the name. You may make your own conclusions from that.
> 
> In other news: This is a less extreme case of what is happening in the west (mostly in America by the way). If you haven't heard; it is (or will be soon?) illegal to "misgender" someone in Canada, as it is considered a hate crime. This is a legal extension of the whole "I'm offended" game.
> 
> But riddle me this: When is something offensive? At what point does something offensive become a crime? How do you quantify "being offended" ?



You know what’s offensive? You thinking I wouldn’t take the seconds to research the bullshit you’re spewing.

http://www.canadalandshow.com/no-wont-jailed-using-wrong-pronoun/


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Sounds like a beta cuck libtard snowflake. Everyone knows real high energy alpha males have no need for feelings because everything is a joke for SJWs to get offended over.


And they get easily offended by everything. In fact, this might even offend a few of you.


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## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> You know what’s offensive? You thinking I wouldn’t take the seconds to research the bullshit you’re spewing.
> 
> http://www.canadalandshow.com/no-wont-jailed-using-wrong-pronoun/


You should have spent more time actually reading your source. It does not disprove what I said.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> You should have spent more time actually reading your source. It does not disprove what I said.



This is your claim: “it is (or will be soon?) illegal to "misgender" someone in Canada”

Defend it.

Full text:

University of Toronto professor Jordan Peterson has been in the news this week for taking a stand on behalf of suffering pronouns everywhere. His claim that a proposed change to Canada’s criminal code and national anti-discrimination laws to protect “gender identity or expression” could result in charges for anyone who refuses to call transgender people by their preferred pronouns has been covered by CBC, CTV, Vice, the National Post and Yahoo News.

“All it will do is produce a huge tangle in the legal system and a lot of ill will, and I think most of that will eventually be directed against people who are visibly different,” the psychology professor said on “This Morning.”

One problem with Peterson’s theory: it’s flat-out wrong, according to lawyers and academics who spoke to CANADALAND.

*Bill C-16, whose full text can be found by Googling “Bill C-16”, would add just four words — “gender identity or expression” — to the list of factors like race and sex that government agencies and businesses regulated by the national government can’t use to discriminate. The same words would also be added to a section of criminal law (which anyone can find online) that forbids advocating genocide.*

In the same way that people aren’t routinely locked up for using racial slurs, it’s also extremely unlikely they’d be jailed for referring to a trans person who prefers to be called “they” as “he” or “she.” Richard Moon, a professor at the University of Windsor who studies freedom of speech issues, said remarks have got to “be really extreme in character” before they qualify as criminal hate speech.

*Using a pronoun a transgender person doesn’t like, “as offensive and distasteful as it is, would likely not be something that could be prosecuted under the criminal code,” said Noa Mendelsohn Aviv, a lawyer with the Canadian Civil Liberties Association who runs the group’s equality project. “I would find it hard to believe” a prosecutor would file charges on that basis, she said.*

Yet few journalists have challenged Peterson’s claims, which he also made in a YouTube video which has been viewed over 40,000 times. In a recent broadcast of the CBC’s “As It Happens,” interviewer Carol Off even stated outright that the bill would ban using the wrong pronouns to refer to trans people:

CO: What you are proposing, that you will not use pronouns, may become something that’s a criminal offense. Are you aware of that?

JP: Of course I’m aware of that — that’s exactly what I wrote the lecture about.

Peterson didn’t respond to interview requests via email, Facebook and Twitter, and Off declined to comment through a CBC spokesperson.

*The bill does instruct judges to sentence people more harshly when gender identity-based hatred is a factor. That gives prosecutors more power if they press charges in a case like X v. Sugar Daddy’s Nightclub, where a transgender person who uses the men’s bathroom sought financial damages for being dragged out of a stall, called transphobic slurs, and beaten.

Bill C-16 would also give the Canadian Human Rights Commission new powers to impose civil penalties, or fines, on businesses for discriminating against transgender people. But Moon and Kyle Kirkup, a law professor at the University of Ottawa, said several provinces banned gender discrimination by businesses years ago. Bill C-16 would just apply those same standards to federal agencies and federally regulated industries, Kirkup said, like banks and telecoms.*

Even in provinces without those laws, human rights tribunals have interpreted bans on sex discrimination to protect trans people as well, said Andrea Zwack, an attorney who frequently represents businesses.

“There is not great concern on the part of employers on this point, as most progressive and aware employers already prohibit discrimination on this basis in their workplaces,” she said.


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## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> This is your claim: “it is (or will be soon?) illegal to "misgender" someone in Canada”
> 
> Defend it.





> The Canadian Senate passed Bill C-16 by a 67-11 vote. The bill adds prohibitions against discrimination on the basis of gender identity and gender expression to the Canadian Human Rights Act, amends the criminal code to extend protections against hate speech and allows judges to take into consideration when sentencing whether a crime was motivated by hatred of the victim’s gender identity or expression.


Source.

Now define Hate-Speech.
And while you're at it, please take the time to answer the questions I asked you before.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Source.
> 
> Now define Hate-Speech.
> And while you're at it, please take the time to answer the questions I asked you before.



This is from your own source:
_
During the Senate hearings, opponents of the bill gave testimony against it, arguing it undermines free speech, “criminalizes” incorrect pronoun use and threatens “women only” spaces such as rape crisis centers. Arguments about free speech and pronoun criminalization have been debunked by legal experts, and several women’s anti-violence organizations released a statement calling such testimony “harmful” and reiterated unequivocally that “trans women are women.”_


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## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

But experts say just using an incorrect pronoun isn't enough to qualify as criminal hate speech. "Absolutely not a chance," says University of Toronto law professor Brenda Cossman. "There is no criminalization of the misuse of pronouns."

Richard Moon, a University of Windsor professor who studies freedom of speech issues, says only speech that is "extreme in character" would qualify as criminal. He says the person uttering the words must be found to have "willfully promoted hatred."

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/0...il-in-canada-for-misusing-gender-pronoun.html

(Posting a fox news article as a comparatively sane citation. What is the world coming to?)


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## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

Why do you keep avoiding my questions?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Why do you keep avoiding my questions?



Because you’re not taking part in this discussion in good faith. If you want to stretch the truth, mislead or outright lie, go for it. Just understand that no one is going to take you seriously unless you put some effort into being honest.


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## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

Oh the irony. Maybe it would be more to your liking if I started spamming you with quotes and ignoring your questions instead?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Oh the irony. Maybe it would be more to your liking if I started spamming you with quotes and ignoring your questions instead?



If by “spamming...with quotes” you mean providing sources, yeah I’d prefer that.

None of the questions I’ve asked you weren’t rhetorical. 

If you have something legitimate to say, say it. You shouldn’t need to set up your argument with baiting questions.


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## prlgmnr (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Hightlighting the important part.
> Being offended is a very subjective and sometimes arbitrary thing. People should think really deep and hard about whether or not they want to go down the rabbit hole of "if it offends me, you're in trouble!" policy.



So much so that it should maybe be really obvious to you that what people are bothered about is not "being offended" but something more substantial.


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## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> If by “spamming...with quotes” you mean providing sources, yeah I’d prefer that.
> 
> None of the questions I’ve asked you weren’t rhetorical.
> 
> If you have something legitimate to say, say it. You shouldn’t need to set up your argument with baiting questions.


To be fair, neither of us provided actual sources, we both provided bias'd pieces which are not of academical nature.
Not being able to answer my questions hardly counts as "baiting" on my part. But sure, if you're unwilling to engage in a discussion, more power to you.


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## narad (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> To be fair, neither of us provided actual sources, we both provided bias'd pieces which are not of academical nature.
> Not being able to answer my questions hardly counts as "baiting" on my part. But sure, if you're unwilling to engage in a discussion, more power to you.



Academics don't write papers dispelling alt-right news articles, btw.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> To be fair, neither of us provided actual sources, we both provided bias'd pieces which are not of academical nature.
> Not being able to answer my questions hardly counts as "baiting" on my part. But sure, if you're unwilling to engage in a discussion, more power to you.



I’m not unwilling to engage in discussion, I’m unwilling to do so with you specifically because you have absolutely nothing to offer outside of alt-right memes and willful ignorance.


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## Edika (Jul 11, 2018)

Good points made in this thread and as usual it veered of in other areas lol.

It really makes sense on the perception of things like comedy, parody and satire and some times acts and comedians purposely cross the line to raise some noise around their name. It has to do with what life experiences it's individual has and how they approach things. I mean the first time I saw and heard the videoclip "Death to All But Metal" it was immediately evident it was a parody of 80's hair metal. I didn't listen to that genre because I was quite young but when I became aware of it and what was going on behind the scenes I never thought "that's awesome, I'd like to do that!", I found it repulsive. To my perception Steel Panther isn't normalizing these behaviors through laughter, it's just showing how much of a tool and a moron someone with that mindset is. To me they're greatly influenced by Spinal Tap.

I remember when I was listening to a couple of songs and my wife was in the room, she suddenly paid attention to the lyrics and turned to me with a puzzled look and I explained to her the premise of the band. She then just rolled her eyes with the silly stuff I entertain myself with. I'm not giving this an anecdotal argument to say that women are ok with or should be ok with this. Maybe it's an emotional reaction from my part as I like Steel Panther's music and I like Satchel's guitar work. I mean I play Asian Hooker with a friend along with other regular songs but I have a lot of Asian colleagues and would never even mention I play this song to them for obvious reasons. The only reason I play this song is because I like the music.

My negative reaction towards this pedal was because it reminded me the article about the Rolling Stones museum in Germany were there were protests against the urinals shaped like the classic Rolling Stone mouth. The protesters considered the urinals sexist because they represented a woman's mouth. In this situation, as the above, context is really important. 

On the other hand I do watch some known stand up comedians that will use some exaggerated jokes that can pass off as misogynistic for the shock factor, but then I see all these conservative right wing beta cuck snowflakes reproducing those in youtube as proof of (white) male supremacy and putting women in their rightful place. After the whole discussion in this thread I thought about it a bit longer and came to the conclusion that my viewpoint might be just a bit immaturely naive on how comedy affects individuals. It tends to reinforce some ideological notions regardless if that was never the intention and to the minds of some individuals (maybe a lot?) it might reinforce some incorrect conclusions. Of course those people must be really pathetic individuals to get influenced in social and political by comedians but this is the reality that we live in.

Honestly though, before this thread, I wasn't even aware about this pedal. Even if they left the name like that I wouldn't buy it because a) come on it would have the name Pussy Melter on it and b) I don't use delay or effects that much. After this whole discussion I have reconsidered why it would be offensive for women and it was a valid response from her side. I still believe it was an overreaction to a bad joke but since a lot of people felt strongly about it and backed it up then it's obviously not ok and taking the joke too far. 

I'm kind of typing this as I go and I'm not sure if everything makes sense or is contradictory. I'm torn between this is goofy joke band that under no way should be taken seriously as they don't represent these ideas out of their shtick and by the fact that this can seem offensive to women and might influence negatively impressionable people.


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## blacai (Jul 11, 2018)




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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 11, 2018)

well this thread took a hell of a turn


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## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I’m not unwilling to engage in discussion, I’m unwilling to do so with you specifically because you have absolutely nothing to offer outside of alt-right memes and willful ignorance.


Indeed, using labels to demonize me so you don't have to engage in a discussion is so very tolerant and liberal of you.
Now where have I seen that one before...


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Indeed, using labels to demonize me so you don't have to engage in a discussion is so very tolerant and liberal of you.
> Now where have I seen that one before...



I’m incredibly intolerant of those who can’t source thier statements.


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## Flappydoodle (Jul 11, 2018)

He is a famous guitarist in one of the very few popular rock bands today. The whole '80's thing' is their brand. 

She is... absolutely nobody. Kicking up a fuss for her own publicity, and sadly people are giving it to her. I find it hard to believe anybody is genuinely offended by the name of a guitar pedal. It's just attention seeking and trying to boost her own profile. 

Satchel, TC, and everybody else would be best served completely ignoring her fake outrage.


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## Steinmetzify (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Hey, can you ask her about reproductive rights? Is the “c word” still off limits?
> 
> Whew, really glad we can straighten all this out. Who would have thunk that all this time we just needed to ask steinmetzify’s wife, The Pope of Women, what was up?
> 
> You wouldn’t happen to have a black friend would you? I’d really like to get this whole racism thing figured out. ASAP.




Seriously though....why is one woman’s feelings more important than another? You have one saying “this is offensive” and another one saying “being offended by that is completely stupid”.

Is it just those two recently magical words “I’m offended” that make it anything?



JohnIce said:


> Not necessarily, but if you'd allow me to rephrase that as: "anytime anyone gets offended about anything, it can't hurt to think about where they're coming from before dismissing it" I'd say it's a pretty spot-on description of what functioning empathy looks like. I love that attitude in people  I can't think of any time I've ever thought: "Ugh, can't stand that guy, he's too considerate and not enough of an asshole".



Dude I’m not saying I’m an insensitive person. I was raised by a woman, my best friend is a woman, I have a wife and an 18 yr old daughter. Asked each of them what they thought and they all pretty much replied that the entire thing was inconsequential.

The part where someone shouts “I’m offended” by whatever it is and all of a sudden their opinion HAS TO HAVE WEIGHT and everyone has to snap to is getting really old.


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## SDMFVan (Jul 11, 2018)

7 pages in 15 hours has to be some kind of record, right?


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

Sweet jebus, thread started yesterday and already at 7 pages? I don't have time to read this much internet nonsense, so instead I will add my out-of-context gut-reaction  that may have already been brought up and torn down, but whatever.

And here it is:
I think we're only calling this "sexist" because someone somewhere decided that male expressions of sexuality are evil for some reason. This whole "how dare you put something sexual on a pedal" is just an attempt to demonize male sexuality "because what year is it, amirite?!?!". I don't care what year it is - we have to accept that men (and women too!) like sex. It's been mentioned already, but there would be zero outrage against a pedal with balls on it, or some other kind of phallic name or reference. I'm sure those exist somewhere. And we very frequently market things the other way around with zero outrage -> all kinds of marketing implies that using a particular product will give women some kind of sexual power over men. (See any cosmetics ad, music gear that's made "for women", etc. ... reaslisticaly, almost anything marketed at women. Or at anyone. Is 90% of marketing just "this will make you attractive?" Maybe it is.)

It's not offensive because it's "sexist" - there is zero sexism happening here, it's offensive because some people don't like to see anything empower men in any way. They've decided that men have enough power, and giving them anymore somehow takes that same power away from women, as if it's an absolute and finite resource that can only be held by one person at a time. It's the whole empowering-women-by-tearing-down-men approach, to my eyes.

And don't get me wrong, I get it. If I was a women who was sensitive to the whole sexual-power-dyanmics thing, for whatever reason, I'm sure I wouldn't be thrilled by this pedal or its marketing either - but there's got to be a line, IMO. Saying that this doesn't have a right to exist, or a place in the market, is over that line, as far I care according to my gut reaction this morning.

If this was a pedal that went much farther into *actually* offensive territory, I'd be on the other side of the conversation. If there was a very clearly implied removal of consent involved -like if it said something like "she'll no longer be able to say no! Go claim your property!" instead of "this will make you attractive! Isn't that a cool fantasy?" than you'd have a different story. If you added something in like "don't take no for an answer!" or something like that, then you'd have a case.


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## Randy (Jul 11, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> It's just attention seeking and trying to boost her own profile.



If she was looking for a boost, TC was a poor choice anyway. I'd recommend a Boss DS-1 or an Ibanez TS7 first.


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

Randy said:


> If she was looking for a boost, TC was a poor choice anyway




I have a Spark, and I quite like it actually. I like how TC being in the spotlight instantly brings out the "their products must suck too" comments.


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## KnightBrolaire (Jul 11, 2018)

brb going to repaint my TC Eyemaster and call it the browneyemaster, with a nice big goatse img


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## Seabeast2000 (Jul 11, 2018)

SDMFVan said:


> 7 pages in 15 hours has to be some kind of record, right?


We're a needy bunch. Mesa hasn't released a new model in months.


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## bostjan (Jul 11, 2018)

God, this situation is stupid.


----------



## coreysMonster (Jul 11, 2018)

I was gonna say something but people have already brought up Jordan Peterson so this thread is officially now about insecure young men.

Discuss.


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## synrgy (Jul 11, 2018)

"_the professional boundaries enforced by society to ensure that no product offends"_

Uhm... That's totally not A Thing...?


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## blacai (Jul 11, 2018)

Let's remember this one also... just because someone doesn't get offended, it doesn't mean it cannot offend someone else. It's all about empathy.


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## vilk (Jul 11, 2018)

TedEH said:


> Sweet jebus, thread started yesterday and already at 7 pages? I don't have time to read this much internet nonsense, so instead I will add my out-of-context gut-reaction  that may have already been brought up and torn down, but whatever.
> 
> And here it is:
> I think we're only calling this "sexist" because someone somewhere decided that male expressions of sexuality are evil for some reason. This whole "how dare you put something sexual on a pedal" is just an attempt to demonize male sexuality "because what year is it, amirite?!?!". I don't care what year it is - we have to accept that men (and women too!) like sex. It's been mentioned already, but there would be zero outrage against a pedal with balls on it, or some other kind of phallic name or reference. I'm sure those exist somewhere. And we very frequently market things the other way around with zero outrage -> all kinds of marketing implies that using a particular product will give women some kind of sexual power over men. (See any cosmetics ad, music gear that's made "for women", etc. ... reaslisticaly, almost anything marketed at women. Or at anyone. Is 90% of marketing just "this will make you attractive?" Maybe it is.)
> ...




Dammit dude! I read 7 goddamn pages of this thread to formulate a reply and then you literally wrote everything I was about to write before I could do it. 

Yeah, I was thinking to pose some rhetorical question like _is male heterosexuality always sexist? _and then try to eek my way through some sort of probably less-than-intelligent explanation of how I feel, but damn if you didn't already do it for me in a much smarter way!


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## StevenC (Jul 11, 2018)

It's telling of the guitar community when we're the liberal forum


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## FILTHnFEAR (Jul 11, 2018)

TedEH said:


> Sweet jebus, thread started yesterday and already at 7 pages? I don't have time to read this much internet nonsense, so instead I will add my out-of-context gut-reaction  that may have already been brought up and torn down, but whatever.
> 
> And here it is:
> I think we're only calling this "sexist" because someone somewhere decided that male expressions of sexuality are evil for some reason. This whole "how dare you put something sexual on a pedal" is just an attempt to demonize male sexuality "because what year is it, amirite?!?!". I don't care what year it is - we have to accept that men (and women too!) like sex. It's been mentioned already, but there would be zero outrage against a pedal with balls on it, or some other kind of phallic name or reference. I'm sure those exist somewhere. And we very frequently market things the other way around with zero outrage -> all kinds of marketing implies that using a particular product will give women some kind of sexual power over men. (See any cosmetics ad, music gear that's made "for women", etc. ... reaslisticaly, almost anything marketed at women. Or at anyone. Is 90% of marketing just "this will make you attractive?" Maybe it is.)
> ...



The best post among the 7 pages that I just read. 

Some of you actually seem to insist on being offended over anything and everything just in order to get up on your soapbox and whine about it.


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## Xaios (Jul 11, 2018)

Gotta say, definitely disappointed in some people here.

Your SO/daughter/female friend not being offended by this means absolutely nothing. It's like trying to discredit climate change by pointing out this one day back in July last year when was unseasonably cool. It's an anecdote meant to distract from the point by arguing that someone is wrong for being offended. Guess what, maybe your SO/daughter/female friend is wrong for not being offended. Or maybe, just maybe, neither your SO/daughter/female friend *or* the woman who petitioned TC represent the homogenized whole of women. The fact is though, there clearly are women who are offended by this product. Saying that they're lying or looking for publicity because the sentiment doesn't agree with that of your SO/daughter/female friend (especially given that the only reason such an argument would be brought up is because, in the context of that discussion, that person is simply a convenient proxy for your own opinion because it's one they conveniently happen to share) is incredibly disingenuous. And hey, while we're at it, some women think that a woman's role is to be nothing but a baby factory who never leaves the kitchen. I heard it from a woman, so it must be true of all women, right?



TedEH said:


> I think we're only calling this "sexist" because someone somewhere decided that male expressions of sexuality are evil for some reason. This whole "how dare you put something sexual on a pedal" is just an attempt to demonize male sexuality "because what year is it, amirite?!?!".


Not even a little. No one said that male expression of sexuality is evil. However, the form of that expression on this product is one that denigrates women as nothing more than objects to be fucked, and that shit ain't cool.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jul 11, 2018)

What ever happened to either laughing at a joke, or not and moving on?


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## vilk (Jul 11, 2018)

Xaios said:


> this product is one that denigrates women



And how's that? Which part of phrase "pussy melter" denigrates women?

Does alluding to female genitals inherently imply that women are "nothing more than objects to be fucked"?


----------



## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

vilk said:


> I thinking to pose some rhetorical question like _is male heterosexuality always sexist? _and then try to eek my way through some sort of probably less-than-intelligent explanation of how I feel


IMO it's a bit of a sticky one, because on one hand I do sort of "get it". I understand the whole premise of men being traditionally the wielders of power, and how that sets us up to want to push back against that. On the other hand, it's very clear (to me at least) that this kind of marketing is not meant in any way to hoist any really meaningful power over anyone. It's a combination of the 80's joke/callback to excess, mixed in with the being-ironic-but-also-not-ironic kind of "use this product at you'll be attractive" marketing that gets used everywhere and, yeah it's arguably a mix that doesn't go down well with the current state of modern values that some people hold.

My gut reaction is still what it is - I'm not a fan of just shutting down every male expression of sex by default. I'm not behind demonizing anyone's sexuality, even if it's the traditional white male sexuality that's kind of in a lot of activists crosshairs right now. But I think I get it. I get it in an "I understand why some don't like this" kind of way. I'll still argue that these products have a right to exist, and that people have a right to not like them at the same time. I don't know how to word it in a nice way, but I both understand the outrage and don't care at the same time. It's one thing to be upset- sure, I don't expect everyone to find this kind of marketing to be in good taste- but it's a whole other thing to try to tear down everything that doesn't fit within your values. Sometimes things will offend your sensibilities, or not be to your taste, or people will disagree with you - but those things have a right to be, so just let them go and move on.


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## cip 123 (Jul 11, 2018)

I'll admit I haven't read all of this yet, but intend to but just wanted to throw my opinion in the mix. 

No problem with Satchel or Steel panther but to say this name is part of their joke/image/them is well...a joke. 

It could easily keep with 80's theme with some other ridiculous name that doesn't imply melting genitalia. Heck one of the biggest jokes about that era we still use is "it goes to 11" and that ain't offending anyone. 

Whoever at TC let this go through without thinking it would raise some eyebrows is an idiot. 

I'm not saying this cause it offends me, I'm just saying this cause one look at the name you can see how stupid a marketing move this was.


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Whoever at TC let this go through without thinking it would raise some eyebrows is an idiot.


I honestly don't think it's as clear-cut as that. It's very difficult to judge right now what will or won't go over well. It's very possible that this could have all gone by with nobody noticing if it wasn't for the one or two people who happened across it and transformed it into a big deal. I'd be willing to bet this same kind of joke/marketing happens all of the time without anyone batting an eye, simply because it hasn't fallen in front of the right set of eyeballs yet.


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## vilk (Jul 11, 2018)

TedEH said:


> IMO it's a bit of a sticky one, because on one hand I do sort of "get it". I understand the whole premise of men being traditionally the wielders of power, and how that sets us up to want to push back against that. On the other hand, it's very clear (to me at least) that this kind of marketing is not meant in any way to hoist any really meaningful power over anyone. It's a combination of the 80's joke/callback to excess, mixed in with the being-ironic-but-also-not-ironic kind of "use this product at you'll be attractive" marketing that gets used everywhere and, yeah it's arguably a mix that doesn't go down well with the current state of modern values that some people hold.
> 
> My gut reaction is still what it is - I'm not a fan of just shutting down every male expression of sex by default. I'm not behind demonizing anyone's sexuality, even if it's the traditional white male sexuality that's kind of in a lot of activists crosshairs right now. But I think I get it. I get it in an "I understand why some don't like this" kind of way. I'll still argue that these products have a right to exist, and that people have a right to not like them at the same time. I don't know how to word it in a nice way, but I both understand the outrage and don't care at the same time. It's one thing to be upset- sure, I don't expect everyone to find this kind of marketing to be in good taste- but it's a whole other thing to try to tear down everything that doesn't fit within your values. Sometimes things will offend your sensibilities, or not be to your taste, or people will disagree with you - but those things have a right to be, so just let them go and move on.



That's the thing; me, too! If it were a pedal called the "n***** hanger" or the "disabled cunt raper" I would be like _that's fucked up_... 

but it's not called anything that extreme at all. I don't see anything objectively offensive about "pussy melter". 

Some people say that there is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to offensiveness... but I would suggest that really what they mean is that there is no such thing as objectivity when it comes to evaluating the legitimacy of someone's feelings. However, I do think it's possible to be objective when evaluating if a phrase inherently denigrates or expresses hate toward a group.


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## cip 123 (Jul 11, 2018)

TedEH said:


> I honestly don't think it's as clear-cut as that. It's very difficult to judge right now what will or won't go over well. It's very possible that this could have all gone by with nobody noticing if it wasn't for the one or two people who happened across it and transformed it into a big deal. I'd be willing to bet this same kind of joke/marketing happens all of the time without anyone batting an eye, simply because it hasn't fallen in front of the right set of eyeballs yet.



Nah dude if I run a business and someone comes to me and says "lets call it pussy melter" they can get to...

It's not even that it's personally offensive to me but I can already see 1 how it is just in general a stupid fucking name and 2 how it's not going to be the smoothest of names to go down with everyone.

Again you can make a joke about lots of stuff from the 80's given how over the top everything was, but I don't see anyone going "aw love that pussy melting tone man" because most people would look at you like an idiot.


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## Xaios (Jul 11, 2018)

vilk said:


> And how's that? Which part of phrase "pussy melter" denigrates women?
> 
> Does alluding to female genitals inherently imply that women are "nothing more than objects to be fucked"?


Obviously not. If I'm a doctor who says the word "vagina" in a lecture at a medical school, clearly there's nothing sexual about it. Conversely, the name of this pedal implies that it's an irresistible aphrodisiac that will cause women to cream themselves by simply hearing it, to the obvious sexual benefit of the guitarist. It implies that it forcibly deprives women of their agency, which is the part that denigrates women.

Yes, knowing the context, it's clearly a joke. However, the problem is that just because it's a joke doesn't mean that some people won't take it seriously, like the people who were harassing women at Steel Panther concerts.


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

vilk said:


> I would be like _that's fucked up_...


I sort of think that's the reaction this is getting, if you take the same concept but sprinkle some "come on guys, it's 2018" on top of it.
I mean you basically said it yourself:


vilk said:


> Does alluding to female genitals inherently imply that women are "nothing more than objects to be fucked"?


In the framework of modern sensibilities.... yeah, that's what I assume people are taking away from this when they get offended by it.

To try to look at it from the other side, the internet has done a great job of highlighting situations where it's hard to separate the joke from sincere sentiments, and from the people who don't recognize the joke and take things at face value. Look at all of the cases of Nazi references that were "just a joke bro" and caused all kinds of outrage. Is this all that different? The implication being that maybe, while it's technically a joke, there's some kernel of sincerity to the expression. And I say that because:



cip 123 said:


> I don't see anyone going "aw love that pussy melting tone man" because most people would look at you like an idiot.


I do know people who talk and speak and act this way. They don't mean it in a derogatory way, but I can't speak for their actual values, or how their speech gets interpreted by the people around them.


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## bostjan (Jul 11, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> Again you can make a joke about lots of stuff from the 80's given how over the top everything was, but I don't see anyone going "aw love that pussy melting tone man" because most people would look at you like an idiot.


Evidently you missed the 1980's, then.  I can think of at least three guys who talked like that in the 80's. Incidentally, all three of them drove TramsAms with T-tops and smoked Marlboros.

Meanwhile, we have a guy running the USA, who thinks that the value of a woman is based solely on how she looks and thinks that sexual assault is a joke. So, let's take out our pent up aggression on satire bands and electronics manufacturers who make jokes that are directly offensive to no one in particular.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

cip 123 said:


> I'm not saying this cause it offends me, I'm just saying this cause one look at the name you can see how stupid a marketing move this was.


Everything about the band is stupid, so it makes sense, I guess. 
I'm kinda undecided on this one. Steel Panther sucks, their schtick sucks, but it's obviously a joke all the time. On the other hand, Steel Panther sucks, their schtick sucks, and it sounds like they encourage assault-level behavior at their shows (and there are a lot of dumbshits who don't even know what parody or satire even mean take them literally and seriously) so I don't feel bad for them having to take some heat/one iota of responsibility for their gimmick. But, it is all jokes and performers aren't really responsible for how the public handles their output....
I guess what I mean is, Steel Panther sucks, their schtick sucks, so why is anyone taking any of this seriously?


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jul 11, 2018)

You ever even SEEN a pussy get melted son? It aint pretty.


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## Ataraxia2320 (Jul 11, 2018)

Xaios said:


> Conversely, the name of this pedal implies that it's an irresistible aphrodisiac that will cause women to cream themselves by simply hearing it, to the obvious sexual benefit of the guitarist. It implies that it forcibly deprives women of their agency, which is the part that denigrates women.
> 
> Yes, knowing the context, it's clearly a joke. However, the problem is that just because it's a joke doesn't mean that some people won't take it seriously, like the people who were harassing women at Steel Panther concerts.



I feel like this is a stretch.


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## vilk (Jul 11, 2018)

Xaios said:


> Obviously not. If I'm a doctor who says the word "vagina" in a lecture at a medical school, clearly there's nothing sexual about it. Conversely, the name of this pedal implies that it's an irresistible aphrodisiac that will cause women to cream themselves by simply hearing it, to the obvious sexual benefit of the guitarist. It implies that it forcibly deprives women of their agency, which is the part that denigrates women.
> 
> Yes, knowing the context, it's clearly a joke. However, the problem is that just because it's a joke doesn't mean that some people won't take it seriously, like the people who were harassing women at Steel Panther concerts.



I disagree with the idea that making yourself appealing to the opposite sex somehow removes their agency.


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## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

Xaios said:


> Obviously not. If I'm a doctor who says the word "vagina" in a lecture at a medical school, clearly there's nothing sexual about it. Conversely, the name of this pedal implies that it's an irresistible aphrodisiac that will cause women to cream themselves by simply hearing it, to the obvious sexual benefit of the guitarist. It implies that it forcibly deprives women of their agency, which is the part that denigrates women.
> 
> Yes, knowing the context, it's clearly a joke. However, the problem is that just because it's a joke doesn't mean that some people won't take it seriously, like the people who were harassing women at Steel Panther concerts.


Large parts of metal culture are about violence, murder, war, torture, etc. There's themes of necrophilia and a quite popular amplifier that is literally called "Satan". All of that is A-okay in your book but "Pussy Melter" is where you draw the line?

This is the "video games cause violence" argument all over. No offense.


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> No offense.


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## Randy (Jul 11, 2018)

Xaios said:


> this product is one that denigrates women





vilk said:


> And how's that? Which part of phrase "pussy melter" denigrates women?



He means that the product is designed to literally dissolve female genitals into a liquid state.


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## Andromalia (Jul 11, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> Damn, I support her 100%. Sexist "jokes" is just sexism excused, it's exactly as fucking wrong. Saw Steel Panther with some female friends once and they said it was the most threatening concert experience they'd had, because the band basically made thousands of sweaty metalheads turn on them and start harassing them on the spot, thinking they were in on the "joke". I have another friend, a professional lighting engineer, who worked on a stage when they played and their crew thought she was there to show her tits to the crowd and dragged her to the front of the stage. Fuck them and their gimmick. Sincerely.



Sorry, but this sounds as stupid as complaining a Manowar show is "too loud". Although I in no way condone the public putting their hands in the wrong place (well, at least without consent), the public should know what to expect when going in there. What's next, complaining about hardcore punk slam "dancing" ? Nerggal singing about Satan ? Kiss being egocentric a**holes ?

About that Jessica person, my bet is, she's after the money. Being offended has become a full time job these last years.



> You know what’s offensive? You thinking I wouldn’t take the seconds to research the bullshit you’re spewing.


I'm actually amazed you're spending time at all about his trolling. Because you know, he's not going to read it anyway.


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## JohnIce (Jul 11, 2018)

Andromalia said:


> Sorry, but this sounds as stupid as complaining a Manowar show is "too loud". Although I in no way condone the public putting their hands in the wrong place (well, at least without consent), the public should know what to expect when going in there. What's next, complaining about hardcore punk slam "dancing" ? Nerggal singing about Satan ? Kiss being egocentric a**holes ?



Scenario A: The incident with my friends was at a festival. We walked by one of the stages to see what's up as you do on a festival, girls got grabassed from all sides, panicked, we left.
Scenario B: Same festival, my LD friend was working at a different stage. She had to stop by the Steel Panther stage to get something or talk to someone, just as the band were lining up girls to take their tops off on stage. She also got grabbed by the band, dragged out onstage and asked, through the PA, to show her boobs in front of a horde of thirsty dudes. She had fuckall clue what was going on and just wanted to get out of there.

Do you think, in either of these scenarios, that the girls "already knew what to expect"?


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## Xaios (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Large parts of metal culture are about violence, murder, war, torture, etc. There's themes of necrophilia and a quite popular amplifier that is literally called "Satan". All of that is A-okay in your book *but "Pussy Melter" is where you draw the line?*



Don't pretend that you know where I draw the line, because you clearly have no idea. 



Sogradde said:


> This is the "video games cause violence" argument all over. *No offense.*


None taken. In regards to your argument, however, you're incorrect. "Video games cause violence" was simply an incarnation of "reefer madness," a cause of an older generation calling out supposed "problems" in a younger generation that don't really exist. The issue of the rights of minorities, conversely, definitely exists, and there's definitely opposition to it. Gamergate, the rise in the White Power movement, the Alt-Right... all movements which turn to a minority group and say "we are more important than you, you are less than us, and your existence means nothing to us beyond your capacity to serve us and be defined by us."

"Pussy Melter" is a monicker of a product for a person who has no regard for women beyond being a convenient hole to stick their dick in.


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## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

Andromalia said:


> I'm actually amazed you're spending time at all about his trolling. Because you know, he's not going to read it anyway.


Interesting take on it. "Everyone who disagrees is a troll!". 
But you're right, I united him with his bff Narad on my ignore list again. Not going to argue with children.


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## Andromalia (Jul 11, 2018)

You're not everyone, but you are a troll, yes.


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## Andromalia (Jul 11, 2018)

JohnIce said:


> Scenario A: The incident with my friends was at a festival. We walked by one of the stages to see what's up as you do on a festival, girls got grabassed from all sides, panicked, we left.
> Scenario B: Same festival, my LD friend was working at a different stage. She had to stop by the Steel Panther stage to get something or talk to someone, just as the band were lining up girls to take their tops off on stage. She also got grabbed by the band, dragged out onstage and asked, through the PA, to show her boobs in front of a horde of thirsty dudes. She had fuckall clue what was going on and just wanted to get out of there.
> 
> Do you think, in either of these scenarios, that the girls "already knew what to expect"?



A) Has nothing to do with the band
B) is dubious, I have seen Steel Panther in a few festivals now, and I fail to see how someone can be grabbed and carried onstage without consent. It's not like you endup onstage at Wacken or Summer Breeze by accident.


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## vilk (Jul 11, 2018)

Xaios said:


> Don't pretend that you know where I draw the line, because you clearly have no idea.
> 
> 
> None taken. In regards to your argument, however, you're incorrect. "Video games cause violence" was simply an incarnation of "reefer madness," a cause of an older generation calling out supposed "problems" in a younger generation that don't really exist. The issue of the rights of minorities, conversely, definitely exists, and there's definitely opposition to it. Gamergate, the rise in the White Power movement, the Alt-Right... all movements which turn to a minority group and say "we are more important than you, you are less than us, and your existence means nothing to us beyond your capacity to serve us and be defined by us."
> ...


You're mistaken. "Reefer Madness" was an organized false propaganda movement with the intention of spreading misinformation to the public so as to discourage marijuana use and also legitimize the laws against it. "Video games cause violence" was a knee jerk reaction to the Columbine shootings, an attempt to explain why they happened that has since been debunked, more or less.


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## Sogradde (Jul 11, 2018)

Xaios said:


> None taken. In regards to your argument, however, you're incorrect. "Video games cause violence" was simply an incarnation of "reefer madness," a cause of an older generation calling out supposed "problems" in a younger generation that don't really exist. The issue of the rights of minorities, conversely, definitely exists, and there's definitely opposition to it. Gamergate, the rise in the White Power movement, the Alt-Right... all movements which turn to a minority group and say "we are more important than you, you are less than us, and your existence means nothing to us beyond your capacity to serve us and be defined by us."


I believe you're lumping together things that don't necessarily belong together. GamerGate was a proper movement that was abused by the media and painted as evil patriarchy to silence them. See my post about "demonizing the opposition so you don't have to listen to their arguments". The White Power movement is a proper fascist movement with no legitimation and the Alt-Right is mostly a bunch of trolls and teenagers with very few reasonable people inbetween. The only thing they have in common is varying percentage of vocal idiots. This isn't restricted to right wing movements by the way, that's something in every group of people. Those shrieking feminists with rainbow hair who demand the death of all white male opressors is actually a very small minority, yet they drive people away from feminism, men and women alike.

I know, I'm guilty of generalizing myself but in the end it does more harm than good.


Xaios said:


> "Pussy Melter" is a monicker of a product for a person who has no regard for women beyond being a convenient hole to stick their dick in.


I see it as silly dudebro fun that doesn't hurt anyone but I guess that's up for debate. The Pussy Melter melts pussies about as much as the Randall Satan summons Satan in my book.


Andromalia said:


> You're not everyone, but you are a troll, yes.


Nice argument bro.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> GamerGate was a proper movement that was abused by the media and painted as evil patriarchy to silence them.


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

^ You laugh, but I think a lot of people saw GamerGate as Sogradde described it, or at least at first. That's what I thought it was about at the time. Was it naive? Sure. Has everyone who saw it as such since abandoned that ship long ago? I hope so.

That's a major problem with "movements" over the internet. There's no way to know or read the intentions of the rest of the group. It's a crapshoot. You could easily think you're part of something that you're not. The group could actually be made up of completely separate groups that have nothing to do with eachother. There are definitely people who fall into a middle ground on certain topics that get lumped into one of the extreme groups, then have to jump ship when they realize the label they picked was wrong, then their views go completely ignored because there's no big extreme label for them to group their views under.

Edit: In other words, I think that you're both right, but on different levels.


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## PunkBillCarson (Jul 11, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Am I only one bewildered by what I CAN joke about? I’m not a SJW, but I am very empathetic to others sensibilities, and I really don’t want to make anyone bummed out, or propagate any negative “isms,” but sometimes I feel cornered. Case in point: I was rating a couple donuts, and said, “‘Man, I want to have a third one, but I don’t wanna go into a diabetic coma!” It was just a joke, of course. But my friend got kind of mad, cuz her kid has diabetes (type 1), and admonished me for making fun of a disease, and for not understanding that eating too much sugar has nothing to do with getting type 2 diabetes. I apologized, of course, and now eat donuts freely, since I won’t get diabetes. No, but seriously, I don’t joke about diabetes any more. But, I was like, DANG, every joke I make is about something or someone. And, I don’t do it with malicious attempt. But, I honesty don’t know where to draw the line. Like I said before, I wouldn’t have thought this could draw an angry eye, given all the other names on the market in music. I mean, it’s not like Apple called the new iPhone the pussy melter. So yeah, I don’t get pissed about this stuff, but I do get confused, and reluctant to joke about anything in groups other than my close friends, for fear of putting my foot in my mouth.




From a person who has diabetes, I would have laughed it off. That's just me, though. But at least you see what the fuck I'm talking about. For every harmless joke, there's always someone to stand up and say "hey, what about me and MY feelings?" That's the point I'm getting at here.


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

The thing I took away from that is that all it took was a random comment from someone who is not likely any authority for you to decide that donuts are healthy now.


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## bostjan (Jul 11, 2018)

Reading through nine pages, and the only thing I see as offensive about the name of the pedal is how painfully obvious the joke is. Is this joke made at anyone's expense? Of course not, so this whole thing is just level thirteen stupid.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 11, 2018)

TedEH said:


> ^ You laugh, but I think a lot of people saw GamerGate as Sogradde described it, or at least at first. That's what I thought it was about at the time. Was it naive? Sure. Has everyone who saw it as such since abandoned that ship long ago? I hope so.
> 
> That's a major problem with "movements" over the internet. There's no way to know or read the intentions of the rest of the group. It's a crapshoot. You could easily think you're part of something that you're not. The group could actually be made up of completely separate groups that have nothing to do with eachother. There are definitely people who fall into a middle ground on certain topics that get lumped into one of the extreme groups, then have to jump ship when they realize the label they picked was wrong, then their views go completely ignored because there's no big extreme label for them to group their views under.
> 
> Edit: In other words, I think that you're both right, but on different levels.



If I remember correctly you're in the industry, so I'm sure you had a different take on the situation as it unfolded. 

As an outside observer, it seemed pretty problematic from the get go.


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

I've just had a weird thought that kind of conflicts with other things I've said/thought on this same subject.

I was reading an article about a guy who was getting in trouble for his use of slurs while playing e-sports. He's one of those people who shouts things like "f*ggot" at other players and on twitch. Besides thinking that acting that way is clearly very juvenile, my first thought was "I don't care how you speak when you're alone or with your 'bros' or what have you, but when you're on the world stage, it's on you to act professionally".

I suppose the same thing kind of applies here? Opinions of what is or isn't offensive or acceptable aside, I think I can agree at least that this band's shtick, and the marketing from TC is similarly juvenile and arguably unprofessional. I know that contradicts what I've already said. I'm ok with marketing delving into some juvenile territory. I can't say that I know how TC should/could handle marketing something that sort of delivers an "unprofessional looking" message from the beginning. I dunno.


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> If I remember correctly you're in the industry, so I'm sure you had a different take on the situation as it unfolded.


I am, but I don't think I'm coming from a place of any authority on the matter or anything like that. My angle is that of someone who, at the time, wasn't a big fan of what feminism was bringing to the world of games, and as such thought that my views might align with the GG crowd - when clearly, in hindsight, I can say it never did. At least it doesn't align with what "gamergate" means now. I was naive. I think a lot of people were (and still are) naive. I do have some strong opinions about games (and music) media, but clearly mean no harm to any women in whatever industry.

If you go back into the history of some arguments I've gotten into on this site as well, I've also gotten lumped into the "MRA" crowd once or twice for a comment or two I made when I naively thought that "mens rights" was a positive thing, in the sense that "shouldn't everyone have rights?" without reaaaaaally understanding what I was talking about.


----------



## xzacx (Jul 11, 2018)

TedEH said:


> I honestly don't think it's as clear-cut as that. It's very difficult to judge right now what will or won't go over well.



Come on man, there's was no possible chance this was going to get by without being an issue. It's so blatant that I'd almost speculate that was the intention all along.

And for the millionth time, it's not about being offended or not by something (in the bigger picture). It's about simple respect and not sexualizing things unnecessarily, which just perpetuates the objectification of women.



bostjan said:


> Meanwhile, we have a guy running the USA, who thinks that the value of a woman is based solely on how she looks and thinks that sexual assault is a joke. So, let's take out our pent up aggression on satire bands and electronics manufacturers who make jokes that are directly offensive to no one in particular.



Much bigger fish to fry - you're absolutely right about that. But IMO, that's part of why this is important - it doesn't matter if it's directed at someone in particular or not, it's about respect. And if people had more if it when it came to stuff like this, hopefully someone like that wound't be elected in the first place.


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## JohnIce (Jul 11, 2018)

Andromalia said:


> A) Has nothing to do with the band
> B) is dubious, I have seen Steel Panther in a few festivals now, and I fail to see how someone can be grabbed and carried onstage without consent. It's not like you endup onstage at Wacken or Summer Breeze by accident.



A) If you say so. I'm sure it would've happened at an Opeth show just as easily, it had nothing to do with a band singing an entire set about fucking groupies and bringing girls onstage to show their boobs. Must be a total coincidence.
B) Of course it wasn't an accident, she was working and had to go sidestage. Triple A pass, she had no intention of interfering with the gig, she was just working. How is it "dubious", this isn't some hearsay rumour I read online, she's a friend and coworker of mine and I was there.


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## TedEH (Jul 11, 2018)

xzacx said:


> sexualizing things unnecessarily, which just perpetuates the objectification of women.


I disagree with this though. That's what I mean - we've demonized sex. Sexuality is fine. It's ok. People like sex. Suggesting that this is the case doesn't objectify anyone. We're not "sexualizing things", women (and men) were sexual creatures long before we started marketing towards those facts. The suggestion that people want to get laid does not in any way suggest that this is their only purpose or value.

Edit: For the record, that doesn't mean that I particularly endorse the idea of marketing this way - I still think there's a layer of unprofessional-ness to it. But not because anything is "offensive" or anyone was "objectified". I just think the band is based on a juvenile premise to begin with, so it's kind of.... what did we expect exactly?


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## coreysMonster (Jul 11, 2018)

xzacx said:


> It's about simple respect and not sexualizing things unnecessarily


Respect is the wrong word. Respect just means either admiring somebody else, or, as it's more generally used, treating people the way you want to be treated, and when people think like that they assume that if it doesn't offend them, why should it offend anybody else. Empathy is a better word here.

Also, everything is sex. Prove me wrong, you can't.


----------



## vilk (Jul 11, 2018)

TedEH said:


> I've just had a weird thought that kind of conflicts with other things I've said/thought on this same subject.
> 
> I was reading an article about a guy who was getting in trouble for his use of slurs while playing e-sports. He's one of those people who shouts things like "f*ggot" at other players and on twitch. Besides thinking that acting that way is clearly very juvenile, my first thought was "I don't care how you speak when you're alone or with your 'bros' or what have you, but when you're on the world stage, it's on you to act professionally".
> 
> I suppose the same thing kind of applies here? Opinions of what is or isn't offensive or acceptable aside, I think I can agree at least that this band's shtick, and the marketing from TC is similarly juvenile and arguably unprofessional. I know that contradicts what I've already said. I'm ok with marketing delving into some juvenile territory. I can't say that I know how TC should/could handle marketing something that sort of delivers an "unprofessional looking" message from the beginning. I dunno.



But then again, calling _someone_ a f*****, derivative from bundles of sticks to be burned in a fire, and calling an _object_ a pussy melter, derivative of an imaginative description of something that is physically impossible, aren't exactly equal (or even comparable imho) in terms of offense.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia (Jul 11, 2018)

TedEH said:


> I am, but I don't think I'm coming from a place of any authority on the matter or anything like that. My angle is that of someone who, at the time, wasn't a big fan of what feminism was bringing to the world of games, and as such *thought that my views might align with the GG crowd - when clearly, in hindsight, I can say it never did*. At least it doesn't align with what "gamergate" means now. I was naive. I think a lot of people were (and still are) naive. I do have some strong opinions about games (and music) media, but clearly mean no harm to any women in whatever industry.
> 
> If you go back into the history of some arguments I've gotten into on this site as well, I've also gotten lumped into the "MRA" crowd once or twice for a comment or two I made when I naively thought that "mens rights" was a positive thing, in the sense that "shouldn't everyone have rights?" without reaaaaaally understanding what I was talking about.



So you're not someone that's opposed to ethics in journalism? Because that was literally the entire point of the movement.

This is what Sogradde was referring to with his poorly-phrased defense of the movement.
GamerGate was literally, 100%, a movement of people that were upset with the fact that _*the entire news media covering their hobby*_ was colluding to push an agenda.
This was confirmed by leaks over the course of the movement. 
It's *unfortunate* that the event that sparked the whole thing involved a female game dev that had slept with a journalist that then gave her (honestly, shit) game positive coverage. 
The outrage *was not* that she was a female developer. It *was not *because she slept around. It *was not* even pointedly directed at her. 
It was directed at the people writing the articles that didn't even give you so much as a half-assed full disclosure statement at the bottom of the goddamn article. 

And since that was how it started, it gave them the perfect opportunity to pull the 'they just hate women' card and discredit _*an entirely legitimate movement*_. Does anyone remember #NotYourShield? Of course not.

Then before you know it, you have the liberal mainstream media reporting full blown lies and citing the corrupt games media as a source. It was a laughable reality check that singlehandedly made me realize what an absolute joke our social climate is. 
Look at what's happening with Jessica Price and ArenaNet right now, it's the same flavor of pathetic. 

No h8 Ted dude I know you're a real straight shooter, but the level of misrepresentation that this movement got absolutely makes my blood boil.


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