# Dingwall SJ4 vs. Sadowsky and other J-styles



## narad (Jan 6, 2019)

So I have a Dingwall Z3 (5 string) and it's obviously a killer bass, but the scale length is pretty aggressive and I've never gotten along with it for proper funk/slap/classic rock/stoner type songs. For the usual SSO stuff, the Z3 is the way to go for sure, but I really want to progress my bass playing... watching a lot of Adam Neely vids, more into that material.

So I think I need a new bass. I love the Dingwall craftsmanship, so curious if the SJ4 might be the answer. Anyone have some hands-on experience and can compare to traditional jazz 4s like Sadowsky? I think over here I can play Sadowsky, Atelier, Bacchus, Momose, Freedom, etc., and those are the guys in the jazz category (besides Fender of course) but Dingwalls are rare. Would have to go sight unseen.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 6, 2019)

Do you need the fan? 

I have absolutely no doubts about the Dingwall. I've played a number of Canadian made Dingwalls and the quality is great. But, owning both a Sadowsky Metro and with a USA Satin on order, you can't go wrong there either. 

I haven't played anything else on that list, bar a Bacchus long enough ago that I don't really remember much about it. I've always drooled over Atelier Z stuff. How are they? Worth importing over Sadowsky Metro?

Are any other American brands available over there? Aside from Sadowsky, Lull makes some killer J-Basses. Alleva-Coppolo are top notch too, but tend to be "too vintage" for a lot of folks, and get expensive fast, even compared to Sadowsky. 

Full disclosure: I'm a Jazz Bass Traditionalist(tm). I like simple electronics, full size bodies and 34" (with the occasional 35" on the right bass) scales with "classic" materials.


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## narad (Jan 6, 2019)

I definitely don't need the fan, in fact, the question is probably: is the SJ4 enough not-a-fan that it becomes fun to play these fun more traditional basslines. Those 1-4 fret movements on the Z3 are not comfortable at all. Maybe I could learn a whole different style of play for it, but when I watch guys playing traditional jazz basses in groovy stuff in the lower frets and just being totally relaxed with it, I'm really not sure that's possible on the Z3? 37" The SJ4 is 34.25" - 32"

But yea, actually checked out a killer Sadowsky today:







Ultra vintage. Great neck. Price is ...pretty insane. 

Going to check out a used Atelier later in the week, in a rare color I missed out on last year, and will report back. Superficially they look great, but the fretboards are always very light rosewood. The work looks clean but also the binding comes across a bit toy-ish, satin white thing. Reminds me of Duesenberg or Zemaitis if that makes sense, if you look at the binding up close.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Full disclosure: I'm a Jazz Bass Traditionalist(tm). I like simple electronics, full size bodies and 34" (with the occasional 35" on the right bass) scales with "classic" materials.



Awesome! That's exactly where I'm headed.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 6, 2019)

narad said:


> I definitely don't need the fan, in fact, the question is probably: is the SJ4 enough not-a-fan that it becomes fun to play these fun more traditional basslines. Those 1-4 fret movements on the Z3 are not comfortable at all. Maybe I could learn a whole different style of play for it, but when I watch guys playing traditional jazz basses in groovy stuff in the lower frets and just being totally relaxed with it, I'm really not sure that's possible on the Z3? 37" The SJ4 is 34.25" - 32"
> 
> But yea, actually checked out a killer Sadowsky today:
> 
> ...



Fans have never really bothered me ever, same with different straight scales, it's always been more of a tone thing. I like short scale basses in certain contexts, but not when I want that J (or P) sound. It takes away a lot of the punch and articulation, unless you're going for that super bright modern solo/lead bass style. 

So, I'd be inclined to say stick to something straight scale in the traditional 34" range. 

I have an NYC Satin on order, I got a decent deal that made it cost about the same as my Metro. But, the Metro is freaking awesome already. Honestly, if I don't bond with the Satin I'll probably just trade it in for another Metro series bass. They're that close in quality. The NYC Customs tend to look much fancier, but I'd still grab a solid color either way. 

That Sadowsky was probably, what, around $7k? That's way too rich for me. At that point I'd probably look into something like a Fodera Standard or F Bass VF. They can nail the J Bass thing, but are unique enough to somewhat justify the major price bump, to me at least. 

What's the availability like on Japanese Sadowsky basses? They've been getting a lot easier to get a hold of here. That would probably be my first recommendation. Grab a Metro that suits your needs and if you love it, and want to go big, grab a custom. Sadowsky has very reasonable build times and unless you're getting something weird they probably have something similar already in process.


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## narad (Jan 6, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I have an NYC Satin on order, I got a decent deal that made it cost about the same as my Metro. But, the Metro is freaking awesome already. Honestly, if I don't bond with the Satin I'll probably just trade it in for another Metro series bass. They're that close in quality. The NYC Customs tend to look much fancier, but I'd still grab a solid color either way.



Heeyyy, whoa, cut me in on that haha. I'm not sure what a metro amounts to over there, but here they're like < $2k now most of the time.

Yea, I'd totally do a Metro if I find one with the right specs. Not many hear have the block inlays:






In terms of availability they're all over. I just don't see any that really speak to me spec-wise at the moment. Quality aside, the Atelier body is not quite as elongated and I do prefer it a tiiiiiny bit more. But everyone I've chatted to has usually put the Atelier and Metro series stuff together as basically equals.

btw though, that expensive (yea, around $6k) NYC Sadowsky had a cool string retainer:


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## narad (Jan 6, 2019)

Ah, actually I think I found one like the above, about 10 minutes from the Atelier I want to check out, and it has retainer:

https://www.digimart.net/cat03/shop4/DS04151640/






Just about the priciest solid color Metro I've seen though.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 6, 2019)

narad said:


> Heeyyy, whoa, cut me in on that haha. I'm not sure what a metro amounts to over there, but here they're like < $2k now most of the time.
> 
> Yea, I'd totally do a Metro if I find one with the right specs. Not many hear have the block inlays:
> 
> ...



Yeah, new Metro basses are closer to $3k here! 

At least those with blocks, which is my preference.

I ordered my Satin directly through Sadowsky. I was being told all different delivery times from retailers so I went to the source. 

Said and done I'll be paying about $200 more than I paid for the Metro two years ago. Granted, the Satin is more basic. I just had to scratch the NYC itch and couldn't swing a regular model. 



narad said:


> Ah, actually I think I found one like the above, about 10 minutes from the Atelier I want to check out, and it has retainer:
> 
> https://www.digimart.net/cat03/shop4/DS04151640/
> 
> ...



That pricing is much closer to what they go for in the US. 

That thing is beginning for a tortoise guard.


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## SamSam (Jan 6, 2019)

I haven't had the opportunity to try out a Sadowsky but I do own a Dingwall Super PJ and am very happy with it. I use it for rock styles and pop/funk stuff like the chilis and slightly rocky pop covers and the pick ups cover all the tones I need to. The tone knob is very responsive and between the jazz bridge and precision pickup i am very happy. Passive model btw.


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## narad (Jan 7, 2019)

Haven't heard of this Ryoga brand before but seems alright:


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## MaxOfMetal (Jan 7, 2019)

narad said:


> Haven't heard of this Ryoga brand before but seems alright:




I can't get over the headstock and neck by the body.


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## spudmunkey (Jan 7, 2019)

Damn...the Dingwall's fan is 34"-37"...a 3" fan!! That seems like it would be super uncomfortable to me, unless the neutral fret was at like, the 4th fret, or something.

(edit: ignore the below...I missed that you are in Tokyo...value proposition is way different in asia).

The Kiesel JBM4 starts at $1349 ($1419 for the 5-string) with an an alder body, maple neck, ebony FB, stainless frets, luminlay side dots, and your choice of quite a few finishes. It's easy to get carried away with wood and finish upgrades, though. Going with "non multiscale" saves $200 off that price.


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## Mwoit (Jan 7, 2019)

I'd also be interested in hearing thoughts on a Super PJ. I own 2 x ABZ6 and they're great, but I'm trying to learn how to play other genres of bass and I am tempted by a shorter scale for traditional feel and sound. The ABZ bass has (as mentioned above) quite aggressive fanning on the lower frets and have a bright clear tone acoustically. I love the build quality and feel, so I'm curious to hear what the Super J models are like.


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## TemjinStrife (Jan 7, 2019)

Sadowskys are great, but the prices on the NYC basses have just gone off the deep end for me (part of the problem of running a shop in the NYC metro area, these days). If you want boutique non-fanned, there are a lot of great options, including the aforementioned Lull, Alleva-Coppolo (also $$$$), Fodera, STR, etc.

If I wanted to spend a few grand on a nice Fender-style bass that wasn't fanned, I'd personally look for a Nordy VJ. The one bass I've played that could have replaced the Dingwall ABI that's been my #1 for a decade was a Sherwood Green Nordy VJ5 owned by a guy at a Talkbass meetup I went to. Carey isn't doing build-to-order anymore so you'd have to look in the used market; they're uncommon but do come up from time to time.

That said, I do really dig the Dingwall SJs; but I've been playing an ABI for about a decade in everything from blues covers to alt-rock, and as noted, that's "home" for me. The short scale thing doesn't bother me quite so much either, as when I haven't been playing the ABI, I've been playing ~32" shorter-scale oddities like my Kubicki Ex Factor and Aria Pro II TSB-550, so I'm fine with the shorter scale sound.

EDIT: Forgot about the F-Bass VFs; I've not spent really any quality time with them, but they're absolutely gorgeous-looking, and some of the finishes are spectacular. Might be fun to check out.


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## stinkoman (Jan 7, 2019)

FWIW with my opinion I was a full time bass player for almost 20 years before switching over to guitar full time and was big jazz bass fan and played or owned all the big name brands mentioned. Being in your in Tokyo I HIGHLY recommend playing a few Bacchus if you can. I am referring to the MIJ made ones, they do have a cheaper line. Everyone I have played has been has been great. Build quality was amazing and could hold their own against any jazz bass and will be by far much cheaper too. No it won't be as nice as a Sadowsky, Lull, or Coppolo but you are paying 1/4 the price of a Sadowsky for one and IMO getting almost as much bass. You could pickup and pre-amp swap with Sadowsky pickups and still be saving a lot of money. I also consider myself a jazz traditionalist so just strictly focusing on the tone aspect, they was all overkill for my needs. Moon is another high quality bass made in japan if you can find one.


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## TheEmptyCell (Jan 8, 2019)

The shorter scale of the SJ makes things so easy to play in the low frets it’s absurd. I have a Combustion 5 (previously ABZ6) and an SP5. I love Dingwall so much that I’m too biased to offer an opinion on something else. I’m sure other boutique J basses are great, but I’d reach for the Dingwall every single time.


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## tylerregh (Jan 28, 2019)

I love my Sadowsky. Been to the NYC shop a few weeks ago while on holidays, every single staff member is an absolute legend. I also have a Dingwall, and love it very much, but im a traditional jazz guy that plays in a metal band (that's what the Dingwall is for!) but i always grab my Sadowsky first every chance I get


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## narad (Feb 3, 2019)

Anyone play a Mayones Jabba? Curious as they're actually selling a lot around $2k, so even less than a made-in-Japan Sadowsky.


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## Mwoit (Feb 12, 2019)

I've seen a lot on basschat.co.uk and on bassdirect. They seem alright, but I've not read much about them beyond the guitars.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 12, 2019)

narad said:


> Anyone play a Mayones Jabba? Curious as they're actually selling a lot around $2k, so even less than a made-in-Japan Sadowsky.



I feel like we've had this conversation before. 

Quality is great, and they actually sound pretty good, but I absolutely hate how awkward they look with 24 frets and the shifted cutaway. 

The neck shapes don't scream JBass either, which isn't a bad thing of you want a more contemporary feel, which is kind of what they nail: modern bass dressed up as a classic.


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## narad (Feb 12, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I feel like we've had this conversation before.
> 
> Quality is great, and they actually sound pretty good, but I absolutely hate how awkward they look with 24 frets and the shifted cutaway.
> 
> The neck shapes don't scream JBass either, which isn't a bad thing of you want a more contemporary feel, which is kind of what they nail: modern bass dressed up as a classic.



Ha, yea, I do feel I led us down this road before. The last-minute-before-buy jitters in effect.


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## narad (Feb 14, 2019)

Thanks for the discussion dudes. Here's how it worked out:















I'm such a bad bass player that I'm probably going to bow-out from doing a NBD, but I dig it. Just seems like a really solid jazz style, really hefty bridge. This one is kind of funny -- I saw this on digimart maybe 2 years ago. Not "a bass like this" -- this exact bass, custom in burgundy mist metallic, loved it so much I thought about buying it. Funny to see it pop up used while I was on the prowl for something of this sort. I didn't get the chance to check out the Sadowsky metro stuff in detail, but this is alder, the Sadowskys are mostly ash, so I guess I'll still have an excuse in the future.

Also, the new Stingray Special HH/HS are crazy. I didn't like the aesthetic but tonally they were great, very versatile, could cop a lot of the jazz tones + usual stingray stuff, weighs the same or less than this. Definitely something I'll look for in the future.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2019)

That is fucking stunning!

Congrats! 

Not to stoke the gas, but StingRay HH basses can get incredibly convincing Jazz tones, and Precision tones. When I had my HH5, I spent more time in S-S mode, which is a spitting image to 70's "all on" Jazz tones.


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## narad (Feb 14, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That is fucking stunning!
> 
> Congrats!
> 
> Not to stoke the gas, but StingRay HH basses can get incredibly convincing Jazz tones, and Precision tones. When I had my HH5, I spent more time in S-S mode, which is a spitting image to 70's "all on" Jazz tones.



Yea, I have a bunch of songs I've set aside as prereqs to master before I'm allowed a second bass  But I was really impressed - I went with my bass player friend to just have a second opinion, and from the description, he kind of goaded me into trying out the stingrays. Has my respect for sure.


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## I play music (Feb 14, 2019)

Does that cover not get in the way of playing?


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## narad (Feb 14, 2019)

I play music said:


> Does that cover not get in the way of playing?



My fingers do a fine job of that already. But it didn't seem to impede my friend's playing much. I don't know if it's like guitar and you'd occasionally want to play up over the neck pickup for a slightly different timbre, but seems fine really. Looks super classy.


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## Seabeast2000 (Feb 14, 2019)

narad said:


> My fingers do a fine job of that already. But it didn't seem to impede my friend's playing much. I don't know if it's like guitar and you'd occasionally want to play up over the neck pickup for a slightly different timbre, but seems fine really. Looks super classy.


Nice. What is the purpose of the cover? I don't know these things.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2019)

The906 said:


> Nice. What is the purpose of the cover? I don't know these things.



Style.


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## Mwoit (Feb 14, 2019)

hell yeah. Do you still have the Dingwall for comparison?


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## narad (Feb 14, 2019)

Mwoit said:


> hell yeah. Do you still have the Dingwall for comparison?



Yep, but they're in other universes. The dingwall is this crazy precision engineered instrument that's got an absurd low end, the electronics are really versatile, but you can't relax on it. With the Z, it's just more comfortable chilling out, and even though the kind of more mid-forward warmer sound gives up a lot in terms of tightness, it has a charming character. Not much overlap between the two, besides being expensive basses that ship in gigbags.


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## cGoEcYk (Feb 14, 2019)

Looks great but how do you play with that barrier over the strings?


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## narad (Feb 14, 2019)

cGoEcYk said:


> Looks great but how do you play with that barrier over the strings?



Like a drug smuggler through a hypothetical future wall enforcing border security.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2019)

narad said:


> Like a drug smuggler through a hypothetical future wall enforcing border security.



So as if it's not there? Sounds about right. 

Those "guards" are one of those weird mojo things that I just can't do without. I've slapped one on just about every J and P I've owned.


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## narad (Feb 14, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> So as if it's not there? Sounds about right.
> 
> Those "guards" are one of those weird mojo things that I just can't do without. I've slapped one on just about every J and P I've owned.



Have you gone full retro though?


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 15, 2019)

narad said:


> Have you gone full retro though?



I've gone dual-stacked and have tried the bridge covers and found the mojo-to-playability factor to be too lacking.

The bridge cover especially is annoying, namely the bigger J style ones.


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## narad (Feb 15, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I've gone dual-stacked and have tried the bridge covers and found the mojo-to-playability factor to be too lacking.
> 
> The bridge cover especially is annoying, namely the bigger J style ones.



I'd be all on board this one though:






Actual 1964 I guess.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 15, 2019)

narad said:


> I'd be all on board this one though:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They totally look awesome, love the big Fender F, but unless you plan on planting your thumb on the neck, or have hilariously narrow hands, you'll ditch the bridge cover fast. It's okay for pick players too, depending on technique. 

I'm an early 70's Jazz Bass guy. I like binding and blocks, heavy ash bodies, and the bridge pickup closer to the bridge. The one exception being a nice burst 60's.


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## jephjacques (Feb 17, 2019)

This thread is making me want a jazz bass, I hate you all


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## GenghisCoyne (Feb 20, 2019)

I bought this because of this thread, fuck yall


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## budda (Feb 20, 2019)

@narad that thing is stunning 

I plan to get a player series P or J for home demoing/jamming when funds allow.


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## jephjacques (Feb 24, 2019)

I bought a jazz bass

damn you all


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## narad (Feb 25, 2019)

This thread pays dividends. Glad I invested in jazz bass stock prior to starting it.


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## Mwoit (Feb 25, 2019)

The Fender Performance Jazz Bass in Surf Green. Hawt.


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## jephjacques (Feb 25, 2019)

narad said:


> This thread pays dividends. Glad I invested in jazz bass stock prior to starting it.



I'm reporting you to the SEC for insider trading


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## Avedas (Feb 26, 2019)

narad said:


> Thanks for the discussion dudes. Here's how it worked out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My friend has the 5 string version of that in another color. It's a sick bass


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## jephjacques (Feb 26, 2019)

Narad this is all your fault


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## narad (Feb 26, 2019)

jephjacques said:


> Narad this is all your fault
> View attachment 67310



Nice - blocks and everything!


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## jephjacques (Feb 26, 2019)

Sounds killer, too- I remember the last fender 5 string I tried (years ago) having a super flubby low B, this one is tight and clear all the way down to Ab. It can do everything from super clean to really nasty grind.


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## GenghisCoyne (Feb 27, 2019)

this viral marketing shit is something isnt it?


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## jephjacques (Feb 27, 2019)

I'm a Fender shill


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## stevexc (Feb 27, 2019)

jephjacques said:


> I'm a Fender shill



i feel ya


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## narad (Feb 27, 2019)

Ah, is that an aerodyne?


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## stevexc (Feb 27, 2019)

narad said:


> Ah, is that an aerodyne?


Yup. 2013 AmStd Jazz V, Aerodyne Jazz from probably '08 or so, and a cheapo Squier VM Fretless Jazz.


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## narad (Feb 27, 2019)

stevexc said:


> Yup. 2013 AmStd Jazz V, Aerodyne Jazz from probably '08 or so, and a cheapo Squier VM Fretless Jazz.



Cool -- that was the only other thing in the store I was tempted to try out. My bassist friend there was raving about it.


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## prlgmnr (Feb 28, 2019)

I just _sold_ my jazz bass, obviously a mistake.


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## Avedas (Mar 17, 2019)

Since everyone here seems to know about J basses:

I'm in the market for a 5 string for recording and jamming, but I want to keep it under ~1000 USD. Used is fine. Anyway I've been looking at the typical Fender offerings, as well as FGN, Squier, Bacchus (the cheap line). It'd be cool to get something MIJ. I'm a total bass noob though. Are there any tangible differences between models in this price range? Or should I just follow the mojo (and my wallet)?


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 17, 2019)

Avedas said:


> Since everyone here seems to know about J basses:
> 
> I'm in the market for a 5 string for recording and jamming, but I want to keep it under ~1000 USD. Used is fine. Anyway I've been looking at the typical Fender offerings, as well as FGN, Squier, Bacchus (the cheap line). It'd be cool to get something MIJ. I'm a total bass noob though. Are there any tangible differences between models in this price range? Or should I just follow the mojo (and my wallet)?



Jazz basses typically fall into a handful of configurations, like most guitars and basses, so finding which flavor suits you (or if you have no preference at all) is probably the first thing to do.

Are you looking at active or passive electronics? 
Do you need 24 frets?
Have you tried 60's vs 70's bridge pickup placements?
How do you jive with nut width?
Is there an aesthetic you're trying to cop?

Depending on how you answer, it'll better determine what will work best for you.

I'm inclined to think Fender would be your best bet in that price range, especially if you're open to used. They've been pumping them out the longest and in the greatest quantity, so you're more than likely going to ride something that works, is quality, and most of all: under budget.

Per usual, play anything and everything. Some Jazz Basses adhere pretty close to the classic design, while others deviate considerably leaving you with more of a contemporary bass shaped like a Jazz, which could very well be your preference. 

How much do 90's and early 00's MIJ Fender soft (not year specific, but decade) reissues go for over there? Over here they're common around $600 to $800 and can be monster players. 

Sorry if I ramble in here, I've been a Jazz Bass nerd for so long. I need to get it out of my system.


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## Avedas (Mar 17, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Jazz basses typically fall into a handful of configurations, like most guitars and basses, so finding which flavor suits you (or if you have no preference at all) is probably the first thing to do.
> 
> Are you looking at active or passive electronics?
> Do you need 24 frets?
> ...


Thanks! I can't answer about half of those questions, but I think I don't care about fret number. The nut width feels comfortable but I have no idea if any of them were different from the others. I think I prefer passive electronics for now. As for aesthetics, anything that looks sort of like a J bass is all good to me.

There's actually a Fujigen Mighty Jazz Expert (http://www.fujigen-customhouse.jp/smartphone/detail.html?id=002002000001) on Yahoo Auctions right now that's well below budget that I might jump on.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 17, 2019)

Avedas said:


> Thanks! I can't answer about half of those questions, but I think I don't care about fret number. The nut width feels comfortable but I have no idea if any of them were different from the others. I think I prefer passive electronics for now. As for aesthetics, anything that looks sort of like a J bass is all good to me.
> 
> There's actually a Fujigen Mighty Jazz Expert (http://www.fujigen-customhouse.jp/smartphone/detail.html?id=002002000001) on Yahoo Auctions right now that's well below budget that I might jump on.



Hey, the fewer the hang-ups the better. 

I've heard nothing but good things about Fujigen stuff. I've only played a small handful of thier house branded stuff, but it's all been really solid. 

There doesn't seem to be any "red flag" specs, so as long as you're cool with that funky pickguard, I'd say grab it.


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## Avedas (Mar 17, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Hey, the fewer the hang-ups the better.
> 
> I've heard nothing but good things about Fujigen stuff. I've only played a small handful of thier house branded stuff, but it's all been really solid.
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any "red flag" specs, so as long as you're cool with that funky pickguard, I'd say grab it.


Thanks for the input, I scooped it up. Hopefully it'll arrive within the week


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## Avedas (Mar 19, 2019)

J bass acquired!

https://imgur.com/a/agLW5Nj

There are a couple things that need to be cleaned up and it needs a setup, but otherwise it's great. I need to get rid of that case immediately though. It's shedding red hairs everywhere.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 19, 2019)

Avedas said:


> J bass acquired!
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/agLW5Nj
> 
> There are a couple things that need to be cleaned up and it needs a setup, but otherwise it's great. I need to get rid of that case immediately though. It's shedding red hairs everywhere.



Looks killer, dude! 

Congratulations!


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