# ESP's NAMM 17 representative's sketchy answer about the E-II line



## max3000 (Jan 24, 2017)

Okay, at the risk of igniting a flame war...

https://youtu.be/8XoaKAZ8AF8?t=521

At 8:40 Lee asks the guy if E-II is Japanese made. Guy replies with an awkward "Yes" followed by a pause and completes it with "fit and finished in Japan".

So does it basically confirmed for anyone else that this is basically made like the Edwards series? They make the neck and body in China, ship it to Japan for everything else.


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## Forkface (Jan 24, 2017)

huh, interesting.

I don't think this is a crystal clear confirmation, but it definitely raises suspicions.
then again, it might have just been poor wording with awkward pauses.


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## feraledge (Jan 24, 2017)

It's only weird if you jump in that second, there's a lot of distraction and Chris isn't being super slick the whole time. I don't see this as sketchy and he goes through this all being exactly the same as the Standard Series and all that right before that. 
Conspiracy is unnecessary. The Edwards thing is also pretty well understood at this point too I thought.


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## Forkface (Jan 24, 2017)

yeah i should have written a disclaimer that i didnt have time to watch all 23 mins of the video, from the time stamp it does sound weird.


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## Andromalia (Jan 24, 2017)

I'll have a look at my lunch break ^^


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## setsuna7 (Jan 24, 2017)

hmmmm. that's interesting.. EII=Edwards??


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## Viginez (Jan 24, 2017)

feraledge said:


> ...he goes through this all being exactly the same as the Standard Series...


maybe only to describe the quality?
'fit and finished' sounds indeed sketchy...


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## Petar Bogdanov (Jan 24, 2017)

Japanese products are notorious for their fit and finish, so it's possible that he tried to regurgitate a line, but couldn't fit it in. He does look off during the entire interview.


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## beerandbeards (Jan 24, 2017)

Maybe the person playing Foo fighters on acoustic threw him off


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## Womb raider (Jan 24, 2017)

I didn't notice anything sketchy, they were distracted a bunch of times with something going on behind them. Hell, if I was at NAMM, I'd have the attention span of a gnat. This wasn't a prepared speech so maybe he was just throwing that in there. Besides, I don't think they would be able to legally stamp made in Japan on the headstock if they really weren't. It would be more like assembled in Japan..


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## JD27 (Jan 24, 2017)

Yeah, he looked a little distracted when he answered that. But, if you have watched any of the videos he does answering questions or speaking about lines, he never seems to be 100% sure, usually he has someone else to assist in that part. His main job is artist relations.


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## max3000 (Jan 24, 2017)

feraledge said:


> It's only weird if you jump in that second, there's a lot of distraction and Chris isn't being super slick the whole time. I don't see this as sketchy and he goes through this all being exactly the same as the Standard Series and all that right before that.
> Conspiracy is unnecessary. The Edwards thing is also pretty well understood at this point too I thought.



You might be correct. However, what he says and the way he says it kinda seems like the ol' doublespeek trick.

Say if I discovered for a fact they're made like Edwards while "advertising" these are all Japanese-made, and I decided to sue ESP and show em this video as evidence, the defense could claim that:

1. He said "fit and finish" and no that they were entirely made and

2. E-II being the same as the standard pertaining to the quality, not country of origin.

It might sound ridiculous but that kinda .... goes on all the time in courts.


But again, you might be right and he is a little distracted. It still smells fishy to me.


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## max3000 (Jan 24, 2017)

Womb raider said:


> I didn't notice anything sketchy, they were distracted a bunch of times with something going on behind them. Hell, if I was at NAMM, I'd have the attention span of a gnat. This wasn't a prepared speech so maybe he was just throwing that in there. Besides, I don't think they would be able to legally stamp made in Japan on the headstock if they really weren't. It would be more like assembled in Japan..



They can actually stamped "made in japan" if it was assembled and finished there. At least, that's totally legal over there.


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## feraledge (Jan 24, 2017)

max3000 said:


> But again, you might be right and he is a little distracted. It still smells fishy to me.



Nah dude, you're probably right. They're also made of plywood. The pricing is back at the last year of ESP Standard Series, so they're pocketing tons of cash on the line which is why they're working so hard on adding new models to it. 

Look, I'm all for calling out someone doing something wrong. But I've owned and played numerous E-IIs, ESP Standards and LTD Elites. They're the same. If Chris is fishy to you while talking to a camera on his second, third, or fourth day of talking to cameras and people at the busiest music industry conference in the States, then he'll always be fishy. Confirmation bias. 
You really think his mind just skipped a beat and he got all honest for a second with some legal clarification? Like this is him blowing the cover of an entire company with a long and highly regarded history? C'mon. 
Watch the whole video, even minutes before he starts trying to describe the improvements on an LTD bass and just gives up, says something along the lines of "I don't remember what we had in there, but we improved it." 
These kinds of things are exhausting and as JD pointed out, he's really the artist relations guy. He gets specs wrong often, he lacks the long standing nerd out knowledge some of us have been harboring while he worked for other companies. 
If you want to confirm what exactly he meant, why don't you write him? Or anyone at ESP for that matter. But this is not evidence, it's conspiracy.


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## feraledge (Jan 24, 2017)

I went ahead and emailed ESP asking for a simple yes or no response to this question: 


> Are E-II guitars and basses made, start to finish (short of hardware) by ESP's production line in Japan?


If they say no, I'll eat my words. I think I'll be fine.


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## Andromalia (Jan 24, 2017)

I honestly wouldn't be suprised if they weren't. Japan has a special view of domestic branding I've not seen in any other country. I've seen it in guitars, watches, general consumer electronics. The export model usually misses something compared to the domestic model. I think it has changed now with the globalisation but when I lived there you couldn't find a single Panasonic appliance: that was an exclusively export brand. Same models with added stuff was sold as National in Japan.
My time there was a long time ago (It's actually accurrate to say that it was in the previous millenium  ) but as a rule if something was exported, there was a better one for sale in Japan.


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## wiretap (Jan 24, 2017)

Andromalia said:


> I honestly wouldn't be suprised if they weren't. Japan has a special view of domestic branding I've not seen in any other country. I've seen it in guitars, watches, general consumer electronics. The export model usually misses something compared to the domestic model. I think it has changed now with the globalisation but when I lived there you couldn't find a single Panasonic appliance: that was an exclusively export brand. Same models with added stuff was sold as National in Japan.
> My time there was a long time ago (It's actually accurrate to say that it was in the previous millenium  ) but as a rule if something was exported, there was a better one for sale in Japan.




You're not far off, a large reason for the E-II branding was Japan wanting ESP to be exclusively the very high end of their products. It's a pride thing.


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## technomancer (Jan 24, 2017)

Given IIRC even the Edwards have been made entirely in Japan for a couple of years it sounds like you're trying to make something out of nothing...


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## jl-austin (Jan 24, 2017)

Isn't this the same guy (sales rep, or whatever his title is) that used to work for Jackson a few years back. I think I remember seeing him in Austin for a Jackson sales event. 

His response sounded like someone who wasn't confident in the answer but wanted to give a positive comment. Just my opinion.


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## JD27 (Jan 24, 2017)

jl-austin said:


> Isn't this the same guy (sales rep, or whatever his title is) that used to work for Jackson a few years back. I think I remember seeing him in Austin for a Jackson sales event.
> 
> His response sounded like someone who wasn't confident in the answer but wanted to give a positive comment. Just my opinion.



Yup, he used to do the same job for Jackson guitars.


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## vilk (Jan 24, 2017)

technomancer said:


> Given IIRC even the Edwards have been made entirely in Japan for a couple of years it sounds like you're trying to make something out of nothing...



This is correct. Unless the salesmen who sold me my Edwards in 2014 (or was it 2013?) was lying to my face, and the documentation that came with it is falsified, as the Japanese vocabulary for "assembled in" as opposed to "made in" are pretty much unambiguous. If you see "nihonseihin" (&#26085;&#26412;&#35069;&#21697 either the product is manufactured in Japan or it is false advertising.

Also, as far as I know, the only thing that has ever suggested that Edwards is made in China was a translation of some anonymous, personal account that didn't provide any evidence or details or anything that could be checked on at all.


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## eightsixboy (Jan 24, 2017)

wiretap said:


> You're not far off, a large reason for the E-II branding was Japan wanting ESP to be exclusively the very high end of their products. It's a pride thing.




Except the ESP branded stuff is all made in the US now, the only ESP stuff from Japan is the E-II series so it would be kind of weird if they weren't entirely made from scratch there, also considering the super high price tag.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 24, 2017)

eightsixboy said:


> Except the ESP branded stuff is all made in the US now, the only ESP stuff from Japan is the E-II series so it would be kind of weird if they weren't entirely made from scratch there, also considering the super high price tag.



The ESP original seires is Japanese-made.


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## JD27 (Jan 24, 2017)

eightsixboy said:


> Except the ESP branded stuff is all made in the US now



No, all of the ESP Original Series and Custom Shop guitars are made in Japan. ESP USA only produces the ESP USA line.


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## max3000 (Jan 24, 2017)

feraledge said:


> Nah dude, you're probably right. They're also made of plywood. The pricing is back at the last year of ESP Standard Series, so they're pocketing tons of cash on the line which is why they're working so hard on adding new models to it.
> 
> Look, I'm all for calling out someone doing something wrong. But I've owned and played numerous E-IIs, ESP Standards and LTD Elites. They're the same. If Chris is fishy to you while talking to a camera on his second, third, or fourth day of talking to cameras and people at the busiest music industry conference in the States, then he'll always be fishy. Confirmation bias.
> You really think his mind just skipped a beat and he got all honest for a second with some legal clarification? Like this is him blowing the cover of an entire company with a long and highly regarded history? C'mon.
> ...




Dude, no need for the sarcasm.


I own an ESP Custom Shop and have owned several Standard Series ESPs, all have been great.

Confirmation bias only works if I was looking forward to some kind of evidence of them not making E-IIs entirely in Japan. I wasn't. (in fact I was looking into getting an E-II Vintage Plus recently)

I'm not saying this is direct evidence, but from experience of listening to sketchy replies and doublespeak, it triggered a red flag. I'm not saying there's this grand conspiracy or anything. It's just business practices that are not that uncommon.
I've never heard of Chris, he just strikes me as a typical salesman-type representitive (I say that because I used to do basically the same job, walk convention floors and promote/sell products/talk to bigwigs) and I'm sure NAMM is always hectic. Wouldn't be entirely surprised if he's just tired.


That said, I hope I'm wrong and I'm looking forward to what ESP has to say about your email.


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## jl-austin (Jan 24, 2017)

I don't know if I would start in with conspiracy theories based on what this guy says. I doubt VERY seriously if he knows as much (about ESP's) as the most die-hard ESP fan here on these forums. 

I would need something more than just this video.

That being said, all this EII (and really LTD for that matter) is a disaster, from a marketing point of view. You are trying to build 3 brand name recognition instead of just one. Seems like a disaster waiting to happen to me. What do I know though.


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## eightsixboy (Jan 24, 2017)

JD27 said:


> No, all of the ESP Original Series and Custom Shop guitars are made in Japan. ESP USA only produces the ESP USA line.





Huh that's odd, was told something completely different from a ESP dealer. 


Looking at the prices though holy smoke, need to sell a kidney. The US Custom stuff is cheaper. 


http://www.guitarfactory.com.au/Guitars/Electric/ESP/original-series


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## JD27 (Jan 24, 2017)

eightsixboy said:


> Huh that's odd, was told something completely different from a ESP dealer.
> 
> 
> Looking at the prices though holy smoke, need to sell a kidney. The US Custom stuff is cheaper.
> ...



The ESP USA line isn't really custom either, they are moving towards a semi-custom sales model though. You can choose from a few body shapes, finishes, and bridge/pickup combinations. ESP Japan does the full on custom orders. The Originals are also made in the Custom Shop, just in very small numbers, hence the black market Kidney pricing.


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## Dekay82 (Jan 24, 2017)

jl-austin said:


> Isn't this the same guy (sales rep, or whatever his title is) that used to work for Jackson a few years back. I think I remember seeing him in Austin for a Jackson sales event.
> 
> His response sounded like someone who wasn't confident in the answer but wanted to give a positive comment. Just my opinion.



His name is Chris Canella, IIRC, he helped Fender get EVH off the ground then moved to Jackson, or vice versa (whatever, still Fender). 
Anyway, dosen't he mention in the video that the only difference with EII is the logo?

FWIW, his account of EII made it seem like some derp executive got some bright idea for marketing and the company had to run with it. He didn't seem too enthused.


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## arasys (Jan 24, 2017)

I have nothing against him but it seems like every guitar company he worked for went through some sort of guitar model drought then came back alive after he left (Jackson's current models vs ESP 2017 NA market models).

As far as E-IIs some of the models especially in the used market (referencing my experience with websites like Guitar Center and local stores here) were going for cheaper prices than standard series, and lots of people seem to compare them with Edwards in terms of quality rather than standard series. Even used ESP Alexis were more expensive than Eii SVs throughout 2016. If I am not mistaken Edwards' bodies and necks were made in China and assembled in Japan then company switched to Japan in the last few years. I am sure Originals and Custom Shop guitars are made by a different team.


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## stratjacket (Jan 24, 2017)

This reminds me of this scene

https://youtu.be/rdf-jKsKA9k?t=38


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## feraledge (Jan 25, 2017)

arasys said:


> I have nothing against him but it seems like every guitar company he worked for went through some sort of guitar model drought then came back alive after he left (Jackson's current models vs ESP 2017 NA market models).
> 
> As far as E-IIs some of the models especially in the used market (referencing my experience with websites like Guitar Center and local stores here) were going for cheaper prices than standard series, and lots of people seem to compare them with Edwards in terms of quality rather than standard series. Even used ESP Alexis were more expensive than Eii SVs throughout 2016. If I am not mistaken Edwards' bodies and necks were made in China and assembled in Japan then company switched to Japan in the last few years. I am sure Originals and Custom Shop guitars are made by a different team.



It's definitely true this year that Jackson is slaying ESP with their line up. But I wouldn't credit much of that to Cannella. He's an artist rep, he got huge hitters for Jackson and brought some huge ones on for ESP. Though, noted in another thread, someone like Nergal falling off seems like it plays into this same video where Chris says, "if you're no longer with the brand it's because we didn't get along". Granted, ESP will sell way more of Head's guitars than Nergal's. 
It's clear in his outreach stuff that's he's a bit of a patsy for the intended purposes, hence saying the USA ESPs are "the best guitars he's ever played" (which may be true) despite the fact that they're 2/3 the cost of Originals and Customs. But I wouldn't presume he's got much say in that overall direction and given that E-II was left out to dry this year, it's hard to say that ESP US & Japan are even on the same page there. 

In terms of the pricing in regards to the "Standard line" from ESP to LTD Elite to E-II, that's been clarified before. ESP SS jumped really high, LTD Elites went way lower, E-II's crept a tiny bit and now they're back up to the pricing for last year ESP SS's. A new Horizon is running $1900 whereas a first year E-II might have been like $1400-1500. Apparently all of that had to do with USD vs Yen fluctuation. It's easy to make it seem like there had to have been massive changes, but both ESP SS and E-II have been comparable on the high and low end even of the price scale since 2010. But yeah, it makes the aftermarket pretty funky and that market is running pretty high right now. If a guitar went for $1500 one year new and is sold used for $1000-1200, it looks like an even bigger difference when the next year is upwards of $1700-1900. 
That seems to be happening a lot, which is why it seems like E-IIs can sit longer while ESPs are getting $200-400 more used now then even a year or two ago.


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## arasys (Jan 25, 2017)

According to a pre Namm video and his linkedin account, he's currently director of artist relations and product management, that's why I thought he had a say about the NA market models tbh. 

Nergal and Gus came up to my mind when he alluded to "we couldn't get along" but at the same time I know ESP guitars are a lot better than companies like Ibanez when it comes to artist relations (at least from what I heard). 

I am guessing the initial market entry pricing strategy starting with LTD elite also confused people in terms of quality since pricing somewhat communicates the quality to target customers. But I agree, I totally forgot about currency exchange rates :/


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## Blytheryn (Jan 25, 2017)

Wait, Nergal is no longer with ESP? What the hell is he playing these days then?







Noticed he's spray painted over ESP on the headstock?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 25, 2017)

Hard to say. Using what looks like a custom deal here that looks a lot like his ESP.


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## JD27 (Jan 25, 2017)

Blytheryn said:


> Wait, Nergal is no longer with ESP? What the hell is he playing these days then?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Probably still playing his ESPs, but no longer endorsed. I always wonder about the choices some artists make. Like Jon Donais for instance, went from Washburn (solid custom guitars), to ESP (awesome customs, duh), to BC Rich, and now Legator. Wonder what is is that makes you switch? I highly doubt his current choice(Legator) is better than any of the previous three. If I was endorsed (lol, like that would ever happen), I'd have to really like the guitars, free or discounted items wouldn't be something as important as the guitar itself.


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## Blytheryn (Jan 25, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Hard to say. Using what looks like a custom deal here that looks a lot like his ESP.



It's no doubt his ESP, it's just strange that it does not say that on the headstock.



JD27 said:


> Probably still playing his ESPs, but no longer endorsed. I always wonder about the choices some artists make. Like tter than any of the previous three. If I was endorsed (lol, like that would ever happen), I'd have to really like the guitars, free or discounted items wouldn't be something as important as the guitar itself.



I wonder that as well, like Matt Tuck going from Jackson over to BC Rich to whatever he plays now. Funny thing is that Nergal has been a big hitter for ESP for a long time, and they get a new artist rep and I'm guessing based on what he has said (Something along the lines of "If you're no longer with ESP it's because we don't get along) Nergal along with Gus are out for finnicky reasons? Now I'm sure that they just didn't think they would possibly be getting better guitars somewhere else, or that the terms were better at another brand?


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## davedeath (Jan 25, 2017)

The one guitar player from Whitechapel (blue Les Paul with maple board) is also not on the esp site. The other 2 guys are.


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## feraledge (Jan 25, 2017)

Definitely spray painted the headstock. I wouldn't be shocked to see him popping up over at Jackson if the relationship with Chris pushed him off after what seemed like a pretty top tier endorsement for at least a decade with ESP. 
He's also playing Gretsch for his country stuff, maybe trying to get under that FMIC umbrella.


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## arasys (Jan 25, 2017)

feraledge said:


> Definitely spray painted the headstock. I wouldn't be shocked to see him popping up over at Jackson if the relationship with Chris pushed him off after what seemed like a pretty top tier endorsement for at least a decade with ESP.
> He's also playing Gretsch for his country stuff, maybe trying to get under that FMIC umbrella.



I can see Nergal playing Trey Azagthoth style Jackson warrior or a kv with AT style headstock and Behemoth's eagle painted on it 

is it me or does the headstock design look a lot cooler painted like that?


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## theicon2125 (Jan 25, 2017)

davedeath said:


> The one guitar player from Whitechapel (blue Les Paul with maple board) is also not on the esp site. The other 2 guys are.



Yeah, I wonder what's up with Zach since Alex, Ben, and Gabe all still have their sigs up. Both Nergal and Zach are still in the artist roster page. I wonder if they just haven't updated that.


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## Sicarius (Jan 25, 2017)

edit: ninaj'd on the Nergal on the roster still.

They updated it to show that Head is on roster now, and Gus G is gone, while the two other people in Firewind are still on roster. They wouldn't remove one guy and not remove others that have left.

You can also find pictures of him using a HEX with a blank head stock, also one with a stripped neck and head stock going back to 2014.

I wouldn't look too far into it. He's been with them for a decade, and they tend to take care of their long term endorsees.


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## Forkface (Jan 25, 2017)

on a side note, but goddamn Nergal looks like a hellspawn. I hadn't seen his most recent "wardrobe" developments. its pretty badass


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## cip 123 (Jan 26, 2017)

JD27 said:


> Probably still playing his ESPs, but no longer endorsed. I always wonder about the choices some artists make. Like Jon Donais for instance, went from Washburn (solid custom guitars), to ESP (awesome customs, duh), to BC Rich, and now Legator. Wonder what is is that makes you switch? I highly doubt his current choice(Legator) is better than any of the previous three. If I was endorsed (lol, like that would ever happen), I'd have to really like the guitars, free or discounted items wouldn't be something as important as the guitar itself.



Probably money and the guitar he plays probably has some special attention to it. If it was money (Which I'm not saying it is, just speculation) I wouldn't blame him. Music is hard, a solid paycheck for a sig guitar can be good to receive.


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## theicon2125 (Jan 26, 2017)

So Zach from Whitechapel is now with Aristides.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BPvE46uAAlz/


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 26, 2017)

It's weird how ESP is losing some long-time endorsees and gaining some out-the-blue ones (Head, Ben Burnley, Glenn Tipton, etc etc)


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## davedeath (Jan 26, 2017)

theicon2125 said:


> So Zach from Whitechapel is now with Aristides.
> 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BPvE46uAAlz/



Whatever works for him, so we can say his departure isn't bad blood. Esp the last few years, outside of the cock stock coming back, had been very underwhelming for this esp fan boy. I'd buy a kiesel but Jeff mouth puts me off so bad.... ( I know off topic but I love his designs)


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## Blytheryn (Jan 26, 2017)

davedeath said:


> Whatever works for him, so we can say his departure isn't bad blood. Esp the last few years, outside of the cock stock coming back, had been very underwhelming for this esp fan boy. I'd buy a kiesel but Jeff mouth puts me off so bad.... ( I know off topic but I love his designs)



I feel you. All the ESP's I want are SS ones from around 2005 to 2011. Why did they stop making cool stuff? Bring back dope colored Horizons, Eclipses and the like. And bring Brian Eschbach on the team already.


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## davedeath (Jan 26, 2017)

Blytheryn said:


> I feel you. All the ESP's I want are SS ones from around 2005 to 2011. Why did they stop making cool stuff? Bring back dope colored Horizons, Eclipses and the like. And bring Brian Eschbach on the team already.


I want 2 things out of them but I know it's not happening. An old school ash horizon and a fixed bridge m, both being bolt. Don't see their sales being better then the time period you mentioned. I mean I like black but they really had some cool finishes. It's looking like a schecter sun valley is in my future.


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## feraledge (Jan 26, 2017)

davedeath said:


> I want 2 things out of them but I know it's not happening. An old school ash horizon and a fixed bridge m, both being bolt. Don't see their sales being better then the time period you mentioned. I mean I like black but they really had some cool finishes. It's looking like a schecter sun valley is in my future.



Old school ash Horizon is so overdue. They've got Rob's sig, but I think anyone who owns or has played one of these gets why Rob chose those specs. I just don't like the finish or inlay. However, I've got another quote in on this, maybe if enough people push on it they would bring it back??
Fixed bridge M? ESP USA certainly has that covered. I'm curious if they'll move that back to the E-II line, but I feel like that's unlikely to happen. They did, however, put a fixed bridge M out on the LTD line this year that is bolt on. 
Sun Valley though, yeah, price and specs are awesome, I'm kind of thinking the same thing...


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## theicon2125 (Jan 26, 2017)

Blytheryn said:


> I feel you. All the ESP's I want are SS ones from around 2005 to 2011. Why did they stop making cool stuff? Bring back dope colored Horizons, Eclipses and the like. And *bring Brian Eschbach on the team already*.



They're passing up a lot of money by not releasing a signature model for him. A lot of us would love a natural Eclipse. I'd even give a Floyd a shot if they released one.


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## Blytheryn (Jan 26, 2017)

theicon2125 said:


> They're passing up a lot of money by not releasing a signature model for him. A lot of us would love a natural Eclipse. I'd even give a Floyd a shot if they released one.



Totally. He's one of my favorite riffers of all time, and he's been playing ESP for damn well over a decade, weird that he's been passed up on a sig. I'd snag me the E-II version of his if they ever make one. Floyded Eclipses rock, used to own one, didn't know what I was getting into when I got it, but playing one without a Floyd is definitely weird for me now!















Gief me...


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## davedeath (Jan 26, 2017)

Do they even have a flat top eclipse that isn't mic ?


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## feraledge (Jan 26, 2017)

davedeath said:


> Do they even have a flat top eclipse that isn't mic ?



I honestly think this is the main reason they haven't given him a sig: flat top Eclipse, no contours. I don't think they would sell really. Most that do a flat top without contours at least to a non-recessed Floyd. I think it would be uncomfortable, but that's me. However, I suspect a lot of others would feel the same. Otherwise, BDM is certainly on par with bands they've given sigs to before and Brian's Eclipse is fairly iconic for those paying attention.
Note that the MiC and old school flat top Eclipses all have elbow contours, at least that I've seen. 

Back on the original question, here's the response I got from ESP: 


> It has been confirmed, E-II's are made by ESPs own factory in Japan, and as with almost all guitar manufacturing, many materials used in production are outsourced to other parts of the world.



Following up with: 


> Just to clarify that, all woodwork is done in Japan, correct?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 26, 2017)

And before someone twists his words, I'm sure by "other parts", he means the pickups, tuners, nuts, bridge, electronics, etc... The rest of that is either MiJ, MiA, or Germany-made.


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## Womb raider (Jan 26, 2017)

I read that as: ESP makes the guitars in Japan with materials from all over the world, be it woods/electronics etc.. This is pretty much standard across any guitar maker.


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## feraledge (Jan 26, 2017)

Oh, I think it's absolutely straight forward, but to preempt the naysaying I just wanted to reduce the ways that statement could be misread.


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## feraledge (Jan 27, 2017)

Now ESP thinks I'm a dick. 


> As we stated earlier, E-II's are made by ESP&#8217;s own factory in Japan, and as with almost all guitar manufacturing many materials used in production are outsourced to other parts of the world. We apologize for any inconvenience.


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## Womb raider (Jan 27, 2017)

feraledge said:


> Now ESP thinks I'm a dick.



Your future custom will now be 1.5x more expensive


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## max3000 (Jan 28, 2017)

Welp, I kinda figured their reply would have some kinda shady wording. Why couldn't they just say "Yes, all the woodworking is made in Japan".

Of course they source their parts from all over, even the woods, but they didn't specify.


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## Flamedmaple (Jan 28, 2017)

I know there is people on this forum who are way more knowledgeable on ESP than i am, so please correct me if im off here. However i find this topic very interesing. In ESPs previous marketing for Edwards, they were announcing them as made in Japan. This assertion have since seemed to be rejected, as the Edwards line appeared to be mainly produced in Chinese province of Heilongjiang, mainly woodwork and paintjob from what i've heard. Thereafter, they are supposed to be shipped to Japans ESP factory near Tokyo to be finished and have their final assembly with electronics and so forth. 

Thus, Edwards are basically just "fit and finished" in Japan (while otherwise being mainly produced in China). Which is just what Chris Canella now said about the E-II line (fit & finished.... hmm). Now, according to my experience, Edwards and E-II's are basically the exact same guitars, only that Edwards are made specifically for the japanese market while E-II are made for export. This is something that raises suspicion from my side against ESP. Seems like ESP has been shady before regarding the Edwards line, so it wouldn't surprise me if this whole E-II marketing follows the same path. However i can't see why they would use two different factories in two different countries to produce the exact same guitar, just with a different headstock logo. 

And as i said in the beginning, im not too versed in this topic. I just find it very interesting.


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## max3000 (Jan 28, 2017)

Flamedmaple said:


> I know there is people on this forum who are way more knowledgeable on ESP than i am, so please correct me if im off here. However i find this topic very interesing. In ESPs previous marketing for Edwards, they were announcing them as made in Japan. This assertion have since seemed to be rejected, as the Edwards line appeared to be mainly produced in Chinese province of Heilongjiang, mainly woodwork and paintjob from what i've heard. Thereafter, they are supposed to be shipped to Japans ESP factory near Tokyo to be finished and have their final assembly with electronics and so forth.
> 
> Thus, Edwards are basically just "fit and finished" in Japan (while otherwise being mainly produced in China). Which is just what Chris Canella now said about the E-II line (fit & finished.... hmm). Now, according to my experience, Edwards and E-II's are basically the exact same guitars, only that Edwards are made specifically for the japanese market while E-II are made for export. This is something that raises suspicion from my side against ESP. Seems like ESP has been shady before regarding the Edwards line, so it wouldn't surprise me if this whole E-II marketing follows the same path. However i can't see why they would use two different factories in two different countries to produce the exact same guitar, just with a different headstock logo.
> 
> And as i said in the beginning, im not too versed in this topic. I just find it very interesting.



Well, here's the thing, Edwards were never really advertised as being made in japan. In fact I didn't see a "made in japan" stamp on any Edwards instrument.

They were made in japan originally, then moved to making the bodies and necks in china and now allegedly, they're made in japan again.


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## Flamedmaple (Jan 28, 2017)

max3000 said:


> Well, here's the thing, Edwards were never really advertised as being made in japan. In fact I didn't see a "made in japan" stamp on any Edwards instrument.
> 
> They were made in japan originally, then moved to making the bodies and necks in china and now allegedly, they're made in japan again.


Oh, really? I have seen them been refered to as MIJ by so many people online, so i kinda took for granted that they also were advertised as that. Well, my bad.


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## Jinogalpa (Jan 28, 2017)

yup, here's my Edwards with the "made in japan" sticker


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## Ikke (Jan 28, 2017)

Jinogalpa said:


> yup, here's my Edwards with the "made in japan" sticker



Dir En Grey! Please give me a new album soon...


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## Mathemagician (Jan 28, 2017)

I didn't know I needed a natural colored neckthrough single cut. Huh TIL. I imagine it wouldn't be any more annoying on my forearm as any H/MH body is...


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## skewkus13 (Jan 28, 2017)

feraledge said:


> I honestly think this is the main reason they haven't given him a sig: flat top Eclipse, no contours. I don't think they would sell really. Most that do a flat top without contours at least to a non-recessed Floyd. I think it would be uncomfortable, but that's me. However, I suspect a lot of others would feel the same. Otherwise, BDM is certainly on par with bands they've given sigs to before and Brian's Eclipse is fairly iconic for those paying attention.
> Note that the MiC and old school flat top Eclipses all have elbow contours, at least that I've seen.
> 
> Back on the original question, here's the response I got from ESP:
> ...


 
Kirk Hammet KH3 flat as a tack.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 28, 2017)

skewkus13 said:


> Kirk Hammet KH3 flat as a tack.



Yeah they did that. 

But the main reason it sold was because it was a Kirk Hammett guitar.


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## feraledge (Jan 28, 2017)

max3000 said:


> Welp, I kinda figured their reply would have some kinda shady wording. Why couldn't they just say "Yes, all the woodworking is made in Japan".
> 
> Of course they source their parts from all over, even the woods, but they didn't specify.



I just took it as them being irritated that I asked the same question twice in a row. To clarify, they sent the first one to ESP technical support and then customer service replied to the follow up. I don't think it's shady.


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## Andromalia (Jan 30, 2017)

skewkus13 said:


> Kirk Hammet KH3 flat as a tack.



Yeah but the edges are *very* rounded. Nothing as uncomfortable as a LP. Plus, it's a 25ish years old model, you can't really derive today decisions from it.


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## icipher (Jan 30, 2017)

feraledge said:


> Old school ash Horizon is so overdue. They've got Rob's sig, but I think anyone who owns or has played one of these gets why Rob chose those specs. I just don't like the finish or inlay. However, I've got another quote in on this, maybe if enough people push on it they would bring it back??
> Fixed bridge M? ESP USA certainly has that covered. I'm curious if they'll move that back to the E-II line, but I feel like that's unlikely to happen. They did, however, put a fixed bridge M out on the LTD line this year that is bolt on.
> Sun Valley though, yeah, price and specs are awesome, I'm kind of thinking the same thing...



Bring back the old cockstock horizon. Give it a hipshot bridge and stainless frets. I'd buy one in a minute.


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## feraledge (Jan 30, 2017)

icipher said:


> Bring back the old cockstock horizon. Give it a hipshot bridge and stainless frets. I'd buy one in a minute.



I'm putting 2019 as my prediction for a production model with stainless steel frets from ESP. If it were up to me, there's be so many cockstocks on the Horizon that ESPs site would be NSFW.


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## JD27 (Jan 30, 2017)

feraledge said:


> I'm putting 2019 as my prediction for a production model with stainless steel frets from ESP. If it were up to me, there's be so many cockstocks on the Horizon that ESPs site would be NSFW.



I feel like the only person that doesn't care about Stainless Steel frets. I got them on my DC7X to see what all the fuss was about, but, if they never came stock on any guitar, it wouldn't bother me.


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## gnoll (Jan 30, 2017)

feraledge said:


> Fixed bridge M? ESP USA certainly has that covered.



Where can I find those? I can't see any on the website... I'd also love more fixed bridge M's.


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## stevexc (Jan 30, 2017)

gnoll said:


> Where can I find those? I can't see any on the website... I'd also love more fixed bridge M's.



Check the ESP USA Galley: http://www.espguitars.com/pages/esp-usa-gallery


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## gnoll (Jan 30, 2017)

stevexc said:


> Check the ESP USA Galley: http://www.espguitars.com/pages/esp-usa-gallery



Oh huh. Interesting, I never knew about that page. Too bad most of them have that wonky looking headstock. I wish they'd make an M with fixed bridge and reverse M headstock in gloss black or white. Probably never gonna happen tho.


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## feraledge (Jan 30, 2017)

JD27 said:


> I feel like the only person that doesn't care about Stainless Steel frets. I got them on my DC7X to see what all the fuss was about, but, if they never came stock on any guitar, it wouldn't bother me.



They're a perk for me, but not a concern.


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## JD27 (Jan 30, 2017)

gnoll said:


> Oh huh. Interesting, I never knew about that page. Too bad most of them have that wonky looking headstock. I wish they'd make an M with fixed bridge and reverse M headstock in gloss black or white. Probably never gonna happen tho.



You can choose the bridge and finish options with the USA models now. I'm sure they can make it happen.


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## crystallake (Jan 30, 2017)

Did they yank the Horizons off the USA list? It's not an option in the catalog.


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## JD27 (Jan 30, 2017)

crystallake said:


> Did they yank the Horizons off the USA list? It's not an option in the catalog.



Yup.


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## crystallake (Jan 30, 2017)

I'm not too familiar with their sales, but did they just not sell well compared to the others?


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## JD27 (Jan 30, 2017)

crystallake said:


> I'm not too familiar with their sales, but did they just not sell well compared to the others?



I can't imagine that was the case. Makes me wonder if pricing for that one is more than what they want the USA line to be at.


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## Ikke (Jan 30, 2017)

JD27 said:


> You can choose the bridge and finish options with the USA models now. I'm sure they can make it happen.



I don't think you can change the bridge. I was talking to one of the guys about a Horizon with a cockstock & hipshot hardtail. Yes, to the cockstock. No to the hardtail. But, maybe I didn't try hard enough lol.

EDIT: So, I think you may just not be able to choose bridge on the Horizon specifically.


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## JD27 (Jan 30, 2017)

Ikke said:


> I don't think you can change the bridge. I was talking to one of the guys about a Horizon with a cockstock & hipshot hardtail. Yes, to the cockstock. No to the hardtail. But, maybe I didn't try hard enough lol.
> 
> EDIT: So, I think you may just not be able to choose bridge on the Horizon specifically.



I should have clarified, I was referring to the Ms specifically. They have Hipshot, FR, and Gotoh Trem models now. I don't think you can do anything with a Horizon since they aren't even in the Catalog. I'd like someone to explain that.


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## feraledge (Jan 30, 2017)

JD27 said:


> I should have clarified, I was referring to the Ms specifically. They have Hipshot, FR, and Gotoh Trem models now. I don't think you can do anything with a Horizon since they aren't even in the Catalog. I'd like someone to explain that.



I almost feel personally offended by their exclusion.


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## Andromalia (Jan 31, 2017)

Look on the favorable side, you won't have a wallet accident from that direction.


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