# Jackson American Series



## DaddleCecapitation (Jul 27, 2022)

Spotted this listing ona website for a local guitar store. Can't find any info on it on Jackson website or on any press releases.









Jackson - American Series Soloist™ SL3, Ebony Fingerboard - Riviera Blue


Born in Southern California in 1980, Jackson was the first brand to embrace the needs of hard rock and metal virtuosos by providing instruments with feature sets that catered to high-velocity playing. Jackson has continued to revolutionize its high-performance craft over the last 40 years, while...




skymusic.com.au





Maybe they're busy trying to get the Sharktooth inlays to face the right direction I dunno.


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## MetalDaze (Jul 27, 2022)

That doesn’t look right to me. No made in USA on the headstock. No Jackson US guitar has the serial on the back of the headstock


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## jco5055 (Jul 27, 2022)

Hmm well if you look at the post I have recently in the Jackson thread maybe this is what Chondro meant?


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## jahosy (Jul 28, 2022)

No MoP logo for the future USA production models then?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 28, 2022)

Looks like a cheaper, fixed spec USA line. 

It's good to see production stuff that's not just a "non-spec" Select, but I know a lot folks are going to have a problem with the case and Korean trem. I don't, I think the idea is cool. 

It'll be interesting to see where these sit relative to the Japanese and existing Select lines. I'm guessing they'll MAP around $3k in the US. So dead in the middle. 

If they pull this off, give a good range of colors with legacy Jackson specs, and quality they'll have some winners.


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## Emperoff (Jul 28, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Looks like a cheaper, fixed spec USA line.
> 
> It's good to see production stuff that's not just a "non-spec" Select, but I know a lot folks are going to have a problem with the case and Korean trem. I don't, I think the idea is cool.
> 
> ...



Dunno if you missed the price. They're 4700$

So... If this is a dumbed down USA Jackson at 4700 fucking dollars with korean trem, and a crappy case, yeah, I'm sure people will complain


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 28, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Dunno if you missed the price. They're 4700$
> 
> So... If this is a dumbed down USA Jackson at 4700 fucking dollars with korean trem, and a crappy case, yeah, I'm sure people will complain



Dunno if you missed that listing is in fucking Australia.


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## jahosy (Jul 28, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Dunno if you missed the price. They're 4700$
> 
> So... If this is a dumbed down USA Jackson at 4700 fucking dollars with korean trem, and a crappy case, yeah, I'm sure people will complain


It's $4700 AUD; ard $3300 USD retail.

For comparison; the MJ Dinky in Aus retails at $4500 AUD; MJ SL2 at $4800 AUD; MIK Concept $4000 AUD. 

Sounds reasonable then for the new MIA Jackson.


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## Emperoff (Jul 28, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Dunno if you missed that listing is in fucking Australia.



Yep. Since the only giveaway is a tiny ".au" in a giant url. 

Street price in Europe seems to be 3k. Price is not shown on the listing but it does on Google's search results:








Jackson American Series Soloist SL3, Gloss Black | Gear4music


Jackson American Series Soloist SL3, Gloss Black | Gear4music




www.gear4music.es





I suppose the price is not that bad if you want a USA Jackson that looks like a JS-22


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## gunch (Jul 28, 2022)

These would be like 1900-2000 10 years ago


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## JimF (Jul 28, 2022)

I'd be interested in a Soloist without pickup rings. That's why the MJ series caught my eye. If this range is going to be USA Select quality but with low end specs I'll be all over them! Just hope they offer Taxicab Yellow or Ferrari Red, rather than the standard black, white, etc (only because I've already got a white guitar and my last three or four Jacksons were black )
A hipshot style hardtail would stop the low-end bridge issues, single hum would be ideal!


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## olejason (Jul 28, 2022)

I've been pretty happy with the Floyd 1500. I don't notice a big difference going between a Schecter with the 1500 and an ESP with the real deal, as far as bridge function goes.


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## Emperoff (Jul 28, 2022)

olejason said:


> I've been pretty happy with the Floyd 1500. I don't notice a big difference going between a Schecter with the 1500 and an ESP with the real deal, as far as bridge function goes.



The problem is not the bridge itself, the problem is that if you're charging 3 grand for a guitar, people expect it to have the real deal. Otherwise it just screams "cheapstakes".

I've had both bridges and TBH the main difference is the microtuners, which are way nicer on the OFR. The bar holder is also better, but I always change those for push-in bars anyway.


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## olejason (Jul 28, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> The problem is not the bridge itself, the problem is that if you're charging 3 grand for a guitar people expect it to have the real deal. Otherwise it just screams "cheapstakes".



$3k is the new $2k for American made guitars. I'm not at all surprised to see a 1500 on these. Should be interesting to see if that's actually a deal breaker for buyers who aren't on SSO, I suspect it won't be. What a time to be alive.


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## Emperoff (Jul 28, 2022)

olejason said:


> $3k is the new $2k for American made guitars. I'm not at all surprised to see a 1500 on these. Should be interesting to see if that's actually a deal breaker for buyers who aren't on SSO, I suspect it won't be. What a time to be alive.



No, it won't. That's the kind of thing that bothers Jackson purists on FB groups. If the 1500 trems are good enough for Petrucci or Loomis, they're good enough for everyone.

With that being said, if the quality is the same as other USA Jacksons with a crappier case and crappier trem at 2k less, I'll take it!


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## JimF (Jul 28, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> With that being said, if the quality is the same as other USA Jacksons with a crappier case and crappier trem at 2k less, I'll take it!



That was my mentality too! Bring them on! Imagine when slightly dinged used ones are 1500...


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## MASS DEFECT (Jul 28, 2022)

Is this their answer to ESP USA? Looks like it has mother of pearl inlays. I love that! Like the 90's MIJ old school Professional models.


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## mastapimp (Jul 28, 2022)

Capitol guitars has this on pre-order for $2,599 USD for the blue one pictured. Also available in gloss black and platinum pearl at the same price.


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## MetalDaze (Jul 28, 2022)

I am curious where these are actually made. It says American Series but not made in America.

A serial number that starts with J is usually custom shop but not with that many digits. Maybe an extension of the Japan line?


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## JimF (Jul 28, 2022)

Made in Corona


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## JimF (Jul 28, 2022)

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/jackson-american-series-soloist-sl3-platinum-pearl












The Tech Spec​
FeaturesSpecificationBody TypeSolidbodyBody ShapeSoloistBody MaterialAlderBody FinishGlossColourPlatinum PearlNeck Material3-Piece MapleNeck JointNeck-Through-Body with Graphite ReinforcementRadius12"-16" compoundFingerboard MaterialEbonyFingerboard InlayInverted Mother of Pearl SharkfinNumber of Frets24, JumboScale Length25.5"Nut Width1.6875"Nut MaterialFloyd Rose® R3 LockingBridge/TailpieceFloyd Rose® 1500 Series Double-Locking TremoloTunersGotoh® MG-T LockingPickupsBridge: Seymour Duncan® JB™ TB-4
Middle: Seymour Duncan® Flat Strat® SSL-6 RWRP Single-Coil
Neck: Seymour Duncan® Flat Strat® SSL-6 Single-CoilControls1 x master volume, 1 x master toneSwitching5-position blade switch


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## JimF (Jul 28, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> I am curious where these are actually made. It says American Series but not made in America.
> 
> A serial number that starts with J is usually custom shop but not with that many digits. Maybe an extension of the Japan line?



Ah I understand you now, you're meaning that whilst it says "Corona California" its missing the crucial "made in" bit, and it could just be Jackson choosing to list an address on the back of the headstock, like the old neck plates.


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## Giest (Jul 28, 2022)

From the product overview image above "(...)marking the first made-in-Corona flagship product line for the brand."


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## CapinCripes (Jul 28, 2022)

Would have preferred the gotoh like on the mj line. Confused about there not being made in America anywhere on it. Are they started in Mexico and finished in corona California? I was under the assumption that all usa production has been in corona since shortly after the fender acquisition.


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## eaeolian (Jul 28, 2022)

I'm guessing they added line capacity to the Corona facility, maybe sharing the line with Fender? Either way, might be interesting.


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## Adieu (Jul 28, 2022)

Maybe Fender should just stick to making things in Mexico.

Having BEEN to Corona, CA, I cannot say that it inspires any confidence


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## CapinCripes (Jul 28, 2022)

Adieu said:


> Having BEEN to Corona, CA, I cannot say that it inspires any confidence


Is it like the Oakland of socal or something? Genuinely curious.


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## mastapimp (Jul 28, 2022)

Descriptions on these keep saying "inverted shark fin inlays"

These look like the typical Jackson shark fins. Am I missing something?


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## Tree (Jul 28, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Descriptions on these keep saying "inverted shark fin inlays"
> 
> These look like the typical Jackson shark fins. Am I missing something?


They’re upside down.


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## mastapimp (Jul 28, 2022)

Tree said:


> They’re upside down.


I know what you mean, but they've always been advertised as just shark fins. When i bought my KE3 back in the mid-90s, it came with "reverse shark fins" on the fingerboard, which do in fact, look like the correct orientation of a dorsal fin breaking the surface.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 28, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Descriptions on these keep saying "inverted shark fin inlays"
> 
> These look like the typical Jackson shark fins. Am I missing something?



They're "backwards".


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## mastapimp (Jul 28, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> They're "backwards".


Ahh, I see that now....mirror imaged. Thanks.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 28, 2022)

Jackson always has to make it known you cheaped out. Whether it's no binding, an oversized headstock, or flipped inlay, etc.


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## CapinCripes (Jul 28, 2022)

So what I'm gathering its probably going to be a step down in quality from previous usa production. Probably made next to the fender American series if pricing is to be believed. American ultra strats are 2k so a neck through at 2.6 sounds about right.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 28, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Is this their answer to ESP USA? Looks like it has mother of pearl inlays. I love that! Like the 90's MIJ old school Professional models.


Also probably just a way to get USA-made Jacksons out there again at a decent price. There was a huge backlog of USA jacksons from the standard factory, plus they weren't getting any cheaper.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 28, 2022)

CapinCripes said:


> So what I'm gathering its probably going to be a step down in quality from previous usa production. Probably made next to the fender American series if pricing is to be believed. American ultra strats are 2k so a neck through at 2.6 sounds about right.



I don't think they'll be much of a difference compared to current JCS quality if they're just Fender American level. 

That's why they had to make it a little weird. Binding would have been perfectly doable, same with regular inlays and USA on the front of the headstock. 

Sort of like how PRS will never do a full carve on anything but a Core or above. 

It's all about upholding the idea of the quality ladder.


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## cardinal (Jul 28, 2022)

I dig it. Wish the fretboard was bound of course but great to have Jackson able to actually pump out some US made guitars again. The wheel adjust truss rod and graphite rods are a nice touch (it seems most of my fav guitars have some sort of reinforcement in the neck, so now I look for it in a guitar).


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## Celtic Frosted Flakes (Jul 28, 2022)

This looks interesting. I do hope they also will release a string thru version as well.


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Jul 28, 2022)

If I buy a Jackson it has better have neck binding and a MOP logo and fins. I’m not interested, but I can see these doing well.


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## maliciousteve (Jul 28, 2022)

Yeah.....no thanks.


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## MetalDaze (Jul 28, 2022)

JimF said:


> Ah I understand you now, you're meaning that whilst it says "Corona California" its missing the crucial "made in" bit, and it could just be Jackson choosing to list an address on the back of the headstock, like the old neck plates.


That was my thinking. Every other Jackson line has used “made in” as part of the markings.

Looks like this is US built but with a different team than what we are used to.


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## xzacx (Jul 28, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> That was my thinking. Every other Jackson line has used “made in” as part of the markings.
> 
> Looks like this is US built but with a different team than what we are used to.


This could have something to do with how MIA Fenders don't say Made in USA anymore either. I don't remember the details, but I remember it being a thing when Fender made the change, which I think had something to do with California's strict requirements for the wording products have as far as origin. I recall wondering at the time if Jackson would have to change too.

And FWIW, you've always been able to get custom orders with the MIA and/or Custom Shop logos moved to the back, which I always thought was really cool.


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## MetalDaze (Jul 28, 2022)

xzacx said:


> And FWIW, you've always been able to get custom orders with the MIA and/or Custom Shop logos moved to the back, which I always thought was really cool.



The serial number threw me off too. It is usually stamped on the fretboard.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jul 28, 2022)

If you are not a stickler for the "US-made" and "MOP inlays", I think the Korean-made Concept series is the better deal. They actually have more finish options and more adventurous specs. Quality is much improved, too.


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## zw470 (Jul 28, 2022)

cardinal said:


> I dig it. Wish the fretboard was bound of course but great to have Jackson able to actually pump out some US made guitars again. The wheel adjust truss rod and graphite rods are a nice touch (it seems most of my fav guitars have some sort of reinforcement in the neck, so now I look for it in a guitar).



I think having the inlays face the "right" way would look better than just adding binding. The MJ Dinky doesn't have neck binding and it looks great.


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## ClownShoes (Jul 28, 2022)

If they wanted to save money why not got with cheap chinese tuners instead of gotoh locking?

Why do you even need locking tuners on a guitar with a floyd?


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## Kyle Jordan (Jul 28, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Jackson always has to make it known you cheaped out. Whether it's no binding, an oversized headstock, or flipped inlay, etc.



One of the first things I thought seeing this was “they should call it the SL1-“. 

Not quite sure what it is, but there’s something I REALLY dislike about this guitar. Seems kind of like a lobotomized Soloist.


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## Samark (Jul 28, 2022)

Couldn't even get the reverse sharkies right

This is how it's done Jackson - you already know this!


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## CapinCripes (Jul 28, 2022)

So there's an American made sl3 a Japanese sl3 and an Indonesian sl3. On one side we have Jackson with redundant under descriptive model names and on the other extreme we have Ibanez model names..


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## DaddleCecapitation (Jul 28, 2022)

CapinCripes said:


> So there's an American made sl3 a Japanese sl3 and an Indonesian sl3. On one side we have Jackson with redundant under descriptive model names and on the other extreme we have Ibanez model names..



Better a sequence of descriptive words than cryptic numbers.

I wonder if this will follow the example of Fender and Gretsch with a line of standard-spec instruments and a line of vintage-spec instruments. Do early production Jacksons qualify as vintage instruments? Either way this appears to be the start of a big overhaul of the US-made lineup. The Jackson Guitars website currently lists the KE2 as the only USA Select instrument left.


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## RevelGTR (Jul 28, 2022)

Looks like shit. I love what Fender does with their own products and with Gretsch, but the Jackson lineup is just weird.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 28, 2022)

I don't get the hate. I mean, to me, this is some neck binding away from absolutely perfect, but I'm not some hardcore Jackson purist by any means.



RevelGTR said:


> Looks like shit. I love what Fender does with their own products and with Gretsch, but the Jackson lineup is just weird.



Jackson is a lot like Gibson. They're absolutely hamstrung by a legion of "purists" that cares a lot about fairly minor things like the orientation and material of the inlay, headstock branding, serial number stamping, etc.

So they have to cater to that group, while trying to do new stuff that doesn't alienate their older, spendier fans.

I don't know why Gretsch keeps coming up, FMIC builds and distributes them, but the Gretsch family still controls what they make and market. Jackson is wholly owned and operated by Fender.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 28, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> If you are not a stickler for the "US-made" and "MOP inlays", I think the Korean-made Concept series is the better deal. They actually have more finish options and more adventurous specs. Quality is much improved, too.


Has the quality improved? I remember reading a lot of meh things about the Concepts.


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## Giest (Jul 28, 2022)

I like that you guys can care about binding while I can't even begin to in any case because it's not a seven string. Binding is a problem you wanna have, fellas.


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## RevelGTR (Jul 29, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't get the hate. I mean, to me, this is some neck binding away from absolutely perfect, but I'm not some hardcore Jackson purist by any means.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was unaware that they had zero say in the product line given their significant involvement with actually making and selling the instruments. FMIC seems to be able to pull of fantastic QC with even lower end Gretsch stuff, let alone the Terada built guitars that are near flawless in my experience. Jackson QC on imports seems pretty questionable.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 29, 2022)

RevelGTR said:


> I was unaware that they had zero say in the product line given their significant involvement with actually making and selling the instruments. FMIC seems to be able to pull of fantastic QC with even lower end Gretsch stuff, let alone the Terada built guitars that are near flawless in my experience. Jackson QC on imports seems pretty questionable.



Because they answer to Gretsch who keeps them honest. 

The dogshit Jackson quality is 100% FMIC's fault.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jul 29, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I don't get the hate. I mean, to me, this is some neck binding away from absolutely perfect, but I'm not some hardcore Jackson purist by any means.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don’t think it’s about purity or the like. It just seems that FMIC has no fucking clue what they want Jackson to be. On top of that, it’s also the clear design choices here that are made to really encourage buyers to just go Custom Select. To paraphrase Homer Simpson, this feels like FMIC listening to the complaints about prices, and coming out swinging the olive branch of peace. 

The American SL3 with no, single 12th fret, dots, or small Sharkteeth inlays would be a drastic improvement. The backwards sharkfins scream design by committee bullshit chosen to specifically make it different in a way to force a higher dollar purchase. Not a fan, but they’re not dealbreakers for me. The lack of binding actually is because I cannot stand an unbound Jackson neck. Completely cheapens the look. 

Beyond that, the A SL3 has great specs. I lean towards slight dislike on the bridge choice, but I’m mostly ambivalent on it. The graphite reinforcement is actually an upgrade in my book over the USA Selects and the 3 piece neck is as well, but not quite as much. 

Depends on the price at the end, but this just seems like another near miss from Jackson. I’m also wondering if this signals the death of the MIJ series. Just another thing about this that has me scratching my head. I


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 29, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> I don’t think it’s about purity or the like. It just seems that FMIC has no fucking clue what they want Jackson to be. On top of that, it’s also the clear design choices here that are made to really encourage buyers to just go Custom Select. To paraphrase Homer Simpson, this feels like FMIC listening to the complaints about prices, and coming out swinging the olive branch of peace.
> 
> The American SL3 with no, single 12th fret, dots, or small Sharkteeth inlays would be a drastic improvement. The backwards sharkfins scream design by committee bullshit chosen to specifically make it different in a way to force a higher dollar purchase. Not a fan, but they’re not dealbreakers for me. The lack of binding actually is because I cannot stand an unbound Jackson neck. Completely cheapens the look.
> 
> ...



I don't think Fender lacks a clue, I just don't think there's a way to make everyone happy, which is what I was getting at before. 

The big problem is that they were too good. The Custom Select was a fucking great idea, but I don't think anyone expected it to be as popular as it was, and now there's a huge backlog and the materials and people needed to make it happen are in short supply. 

So they're trying to put out some guitars that will appease folks who don't have the time, or money now that they've had to limit order volume, without alienating those with an order in queue or direct folks down the product ladder. 

These are basically just MJs for folks who won't settle for an "import", at least that's what it seems like.


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## Crash Dandicoot (Jul 29, 2022)

Could be cool, though as I'm sure everybody knows: Don't go blindly with the spec sheet - count the frets yourself. You can never be too sure with Jackson.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Jul 29, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Because they answer to Gretsch who keeps them honest.


Since 1951


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## MASS DEFECT (Jul 29, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Has the quality improved? I remember reading a lot of meh things about the Concepts.



I ordered and had the MJ Dinky. It was nicely made but then the salesguy told me they had that walnut natural Sl2h Concept in stock. So I returned the MJ because I like a Soloist better.

Comparing the Mj with the Concept, it's imperceptibly very close. The mj just had better fretwork. Fit, finish, setup, and the way they both feel and sound are pretty much comparable.


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## jahosy (Jul 29, 2022)

I had the SL27EX wildcard, made in Korea. Cheaper than the concept / MJ series and it's very well built. Only complain i had was the 12th fret perloid inlay which look cheap. 

Ended up selling it to fund a Jackson CS. 

Will be interesting to see if they'll release rhoads / kelly / warrior on these MIA series.


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## eaeolian (Jul 29, 2022)

I can't imagine them not doing the Rhoads. The others were always the lower sellers, so I'd expect to see them later, after proof-of-concept.


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## JimF (Jul 29, 2022)

A warrior?!


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## XC18 (Jul 29, 2022)

I have no doubt these are going to be awesome guitars, and if Jackson brings out a USA warrior sub 3k I’d buy one instantly.


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## cardinal (Jul 29, 2022)

Hopefully these are built up to the quality of the Charvel select line. Those are nice guitars. If they are built only like a standard USA Fender, then I will not be impressed at this price because additional fretwork is likely going to be needed.


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## Mathemagician (Jul 29, 2022)

Man I know a warrior is going to be dead last, but still can dream. Would love to see things like richlite boards on the USA line too. Consistent coloring/etc of fretboards.


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## Church2224 (Jul 29, 2022)

I am very interested. Hopefully priced decently and like some one said just as good as the Charvel USA Select line.


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## Sslfetish (Jul 29, 2022)

No it does not say made where. It says Corona California. That's its HQ. Like a big Mac is a 100% beef from 100%Beef Inc.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jul 29, 2022)

JimF said:


> A warrior?!


Only if it’s black and they call it Ninja.


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## RevelGTR (Jul 30, 2022)

Sslfetish said:


> No it does not say made where. It says Corona California. That's its HQ. Like a big Mac is a 100% beef from 100%Beef Inc.


Music Man and all Fender USA guitars do the same, California is quite strict about what qualifies as “made in.”


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## Edika (Jul 30, 2022)

If quality is there I don't mind no binding and the 1500 series trem or the foam case. But if the price in the EU and UK is at €2950 price, as I saw that listing, then its a hard no. I know prices have gone way up but this is verging on the ridiculous now.


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## Millul (Jul 31, 2022)

I'm with @Kyle Jordan on the inlays: either make it the normal direction, or go mini-shark teeth.
Rest is a-ok for me.


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 1, 2022)

Just saw this off Instagram. This is inside the Corona factory. White SL3 right there.


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## Adieu (Aug 1, 2022)

They're not even big enough to have separate production lines for Jackson?

Huh. Surprising.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 1, 2022)

Adieu said:


> They're not even big enough to have separate production lines for Jackson?
> 
> Huh. Surprising.



I've been to Corona a few times. It's surprisingly small. They've built out annex areas for certain things, but the actual production floor is pretty cramped considering just how many guitars and basses they put out.

Gibson Nashville is similar, they're so tight for space the guitars are hanging from a rack system in the ceiling.


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## Mathemagician (Aug 1, 2022)

Why do they fear H/S configurations? Accept supremacy.


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## cardinal (Aug 1, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Just saw this off Instagram. This is inside the Corona factory. White SL3 right there.
> View attachment 111699


What are those Strat things behind the Jackson?


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## JimF (Aug 1, 2022)

Cinnamon bun relics


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 1, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Just saw this off Instagram. This is inside the Corona factory. White SL3 right there.
> View attachment 111699





cardinal said:


> What are those Strat things behind the Jackson?



Alright, not to be "that guy", but that picture seems staged as fuck. 

Everything else on that rack is incomplete, or a single SKU with tags, it looks very much like a rack of rework with a single, very complete, non-tagged Jackson in it. 

I'm guessing those two guitars after the Jackson have finish issues discovered during sanding/buffing and are going for rework/rebuild/trash or whatever.


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## eaeolian (Aug 1, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Alright, not to be "that guy", but that picture seems staged as fuck.
> 
> Everything else on that rack is incomplete, or a single SKU with tags, it looks very much like a rack of rework with a single, very complete, non-tagged Jackson in it.
> 
> I'm guessing those two guitars after the Jackson have finish issues discovered during sanding/buffing and are going for rework/rebuild/trash or whatever.


Everything else is also a Fender. It's staged.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 1, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I've been to Corona a few times. It's surprisingly small. They've built out annex areas for certain things, but the actual production floor is pretty cramped considering just how many guitars and basses they put out.
> 
> Gibson Nashville is similar, they're so tight for space the guitars are hanging from a rack system in the ceiling.





as seen here in the ceiling


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 1, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Alright, not to be "that guy", but that picture seems staged as fuck.
> 
> Everything else on that rack is incomplete, or a single SKU with tags, it looks very much like a rack of rework with a single, very complete, non-tagged Jackson in it.
> 
> I'm guessing those two guitars after the Jackson have finish issues discovered during sanding/buffing and are going for rework/rebuild/trash or whatever.



For context, I just got it from a random Instagram account I came across because of a hashtag I follow. It seems to be a pic from his factory tour along with some selfies and other pics. And it's not from one of the gear influencers we know.


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## olejason (Aug 1, 2022)

What's that orange bass with the rosewood neck? Custom? I don't think they offer rosewood bass necks through the Mod Shop anymore.


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## JimF (Sep 5, 2022)

Looks like this is the launch. That riff and the solos, but the drums sound sketchy as fuck when the snare goes double time. Are they pushing a "four elements" theme?
I know from web stalking these, that there's satin slime green, white, blue, and maybe black?
i'm genuinely looking forward to these. I've found myself wanting a neck through 90s Jackson recently but they're few and far between. And expensive. If these stay sub $2000 they could be a winner in my eyes!
Edit: They all look to be HSS, does anyone actually chose that setup?


----------



## Mathemagician (Sep 5, 2022)

Traditional strat fans do. Maybe it’s to keep demand down? “Don’t make it too popular, so we can justify dropping the line due to low sales if we want?” Because buddy lemme tell ya, H/S/S is absolutely NOT the same as our based H/S.

I’m in full conspiracy mode RN.


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## xzacx (Sep 5, 2022)

HSS is the traditional SL1 configuration and what a lot of people would most expect for a Soloist. I suppose 2H is more popular these days, but an awful lot of people have chosen HSS for Soloists over the years. You get the good traditional Strat positions with a bridge pickup that’s actually useful. It’s basically part of what the term “super Strat” was based on.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 5, 2022)

xzacx said:


> HSS is the traditional SL1 configuration and what a lot of people would most expect for a Soloist. I suppose 2H is more popular these days, but an awful lot of people have chosen HSS for Soloists over the years. You get the good traditional Strat positions with a bridge pickup that’s actually useful. It’s basically part of what the term “super Strat” was based on.


When I think of soloists I think hss. 2hum feels like a downgrade.


----------



## jl-austin (Sep 5, 2022)

If the price is under $3k, I "might" be interested. As long as I don't have to wait 10 years either.


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## Mathemagician (Sep 6, 2022)

That blue is lookin’ pretty hawt right now.


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## JimF (Sep 6, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> Traditional strat fans do. Maybe it’s to keep demand down? “Don’t make it too popular, so we can justify dropping the line due to low sales if we want?” Because buddy lemme tell ya, H/S/S is absolutely NOT the same as our based H/S.
> 
> I’m in full conspiracy mode RN.





xzacx said:


> HSS is the traditional SL1 configuration and what a lot of people would most expect for a Soloist. I suppose 2H is more popular these days, but an awful lot of people have chosen HSS for Soloists over the years. You get the good traditional Strat positions with a bridge pickup that’s actually useful. It’s basically part of what the term “super Strat” was based on.





CapinCripes said:


> When I think of soloists I think hss. 2hum feels like a downgrade.



Interesting! Could be personal experience as I always wanted 2 hum but could only ever find HSS! 
I've never thought of the whole super STRAT thing referring to the pickups, more just the body shape + modern appointments. Everyday's a school day!


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## mogar (Sep 6, 2022)

interested, but holding breath for pricing


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## JimF (Sep 6, 2022)

Just over $2700









PRE-ORDER - 2022 JACKSON SL3 SOLOIST AMERICAN SERIES GLOSS BLACK | Reverb


*THIS LISTING IS A PRE-ORDER - We Order early to ensure you get your gear as fast as possible... Don't get stuck waiting at the back of the line! Born in Southern California in 1980, Jackson was the first brand to embrace the needs of hard rock and metal virtuosos by providing instruments with fe...




reverb.com


----------



## mogar (Sep 6, 2022)

That's right at the MJ Soloist price... Makes one wonder if the MJ series will get a price cut, get discontinued, or attempt coexistence.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 6, 2022)

mogar said:


> That's right at the MJ Soloist price... Makes one wonder if the MJ series will get a price cut, get discontinued, or attempt coexistence.



I have a feeling that's why they went with the SL1 for the American and SL2 for the MJ. No overlap makes me think they'll be available at the same time...at least for awhile.


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## Agalloch (Sep 6, 2022)

mogar said:


> That's right at the MJ Soloist price... Makes one wonder if the MJ series will get a price cut, get discontinued, or attempt coexistence.



It doesn't really seem like the MJ stuff is moving. I wouldn't be surprised if they get discontinued.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 6, 2022)

Is it just going to be the one model to test the waters or is it going to be a full series at launch and the rest just hasn't seen daylight yet?


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## eaeolian (Sep 6, 2022)

Agalloch said:


> It doesn't really seem like the MJ stuff is moving. I wouldn't be surprised if they get discontinued.


The MJ stuff is too expensive for what it is. It seems like they're about $400 over the E-II or Prestige stuff. I'll bet this replaces the MJ line, and we'll find out they're built in Mexico before being finished in Corona (hence the "American" rather than "USA").


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 6, 2022)

If they build a Black Kelly like that, I'll pre-order. Even with those obnoxious upside-down sharks. Jackson does really let you know you have a lower-end model.


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## Sslfetish (Sep 6, 2022)

What's up with the nut with philips screws??? Locking gotohs as well


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## cardinal (Sep 6, 2022)

Sslfetish said:


> What's up with the nut with philips screws??? Locking gotohs as well


That must be a lighting trick; the wrenches on the back of the headstock are normal Allen wrenches.


----------



## NickS (Sep 6, 2022)

Sslfetish said:


> What's up with the nut with philips screws??? Locking gotohs as well


Yeah, they're normal hex head screws, probably just hard to see on a phone screen.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 6, 2022)

At least somebody is finally getting on board with locking tuners on a Floyd guitar. Makes string changes sublime.


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## cardinal (Sep 6, 2022)

CapinCripes said:


> At least somebody is finally getting on board with locking tuners on a Floyd guitar. Makes string changes sublime.


Yes, really all tuners should be locking tuners


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## Halffarmer (Sep 6, 2022)

I would have liked neck-binding instead of locking tuners as i see them as an unnecessary weight increase on the headstock (and on floyd guitars i pull the strings trough the tuners "backwards", so the ballend locks them but i know some people don't like that).
They want do diversify their lineup so that there is still a reason to buy the USA Selects but i don't get some design choices.
Japanese Soloists get the neck binding and a Gotoh trem but standard oriented plastic inlays and no headstock inlay.
American Series get mirrored MOP Inlays but no headstock inlay, no binding, and a korean Floyd.
Weird decisions in my opinion.


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## jephjacques (Sep 6, 2022)

ohhhh man an all-black soloist with no binding is such extremely my shit


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## xzacx (Sep 6, 2022)

Halffarmer said:


> I would have liked neck-binding instead of locking tuners as i see them as an unnecessary weight increase on the headstock (and on floyd guitars i pull the strings trough the tuners "backwards", so the ballend locks them but i know some people don't like that).
> They want do diversify their lineup so that there is still a reason to buy the USA Selects but i don't get some design choices.
> Japanese Soloists get the neck binding and a Gotoh trem but standard oriented plastic inlays and no headstock inlay.
> American Series get mirrored MOP Inlays but no headstock inlay, no binding, and a korean Floyd.
> Weird decisions in my opinion.


Yeah, even though they serve two different purposes, I just don't really want locking tuners on guitars with Floyds because it's even faster to string them backwards and has the bonus and not poking you with the cut ends. It doesn't look quite as good, but I'll take the trade off of not having to deal with the sharp ends 10 times out of 10.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 6, 2022)

Would have also taken the gotoh trem off the mj line instead of the 1500


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Sep 6, 2022)

Definitely have to do a double take for this mind fuckery:


----------



## Dr. Caligari (Sep 7, 2022)

It looks like some retard trainee forgot the binding and put on the fretboard upside down.

The whole guitar literally looks like a huge mistake. I can't look at it without thinking "what the fuck happened?!?"

Absolute no go for me.


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## possumkiller (Sep 7, 2022)

Any tuner is a locking tuner if you string it the right way.


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## Zado (Sep 7, 2022)

Baz00mbaz.

































This is the kind of guitar I need. No frills, no bindings, shark inlays.


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## mogar (Sep 7, 2022)

Up on Musician's Friend now. $2500 for the green and $2600 for the other colors. Also called the SL3, which makes sense since the original japanese SL3 had no binding either.


And that blue is absolutely POPPING


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 7, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> It looks like some retard trainee forgot the binding and put on the fretboard upside down.
> 
> The whole guitar literally looks like a huge mistake. I can't look at it without thinking "what the fuck happened?!?"
> 
> Absolute no go for me.



Here's another conspiracy theory:

These are just here to make the MJ Series seem better.


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## JimF (Sep 7, 2022)

To make myself sound very Northern English - They're proper nice!
I can't wait for a H-H version. I like the stripped-down look.


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## Zado (Sep 7, 2022)

The green is fine colored as well


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## trem licking (Sep 7, 2022)

cardinal said:


> Yes, really all tuners should be locking tuners


i actually prefer standard tuners with floyds... no joke


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## mogar (Sep 7, 2022)

Never noticed, but Anderton's put up a video of these and the green is actually a satin finish versus the gloss on the others. Sort of explains the green being $100 cheaper.


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## Church2224 (Sep 7, 2022)

My dealer already emailed me to see if I wanted a green one...

I told him I wanted three. Love the color


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## jephjacques (Sep 7, 2022)

yeah I need that black one


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## gunshow86de (Sep 7, 2022)

No binding and no MOP logo make it look cheap.


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## JimF (Sep 7, 2022)

Just seen on Peach they're at just over £2000 out the door. 
Thats an insanely good price for a USA made guitar here in the UK. Also, there doesn't seem to be any dancing around the place of manufacture either. The listing states "Made in the Corona facility". No, "assembled in" or "QC'd in" etc


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 7, 2022)

Im ok with no binding. At least they have matching headstocks. ESP USA wont even do matching headstocks now. 



JimF said:


> Just seen on Peach they're at just over £2000 out the door.
> Thats an insanely good price for a USA made guitar here in the UK. Also, there doesn't seem to be any dancing around the place of manufacture either. The listing states "Made in the Corona facility". No, "assembled in" or "QC'd in" etc



Made in Corona. But probably finished somewhere else. Like Mexico. Not so sure.


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## eaeolian (Sep 7, 2022)

Eh, maybe the "Made In Corona" means "made on the expanded Fender line"? I mean, the Selects are made in the Corona factory, just on the Jackson line.


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## gunshow86de (Sep 7, 2022)

Seems like this is Fender/Jackson's equivalent to the PRS S2 range (stripped down visual components, import hardware)?


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## Zado (Sep 7, 2022)




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## jephjacques (Sep 7, 2022)

I'm glad the black one sold already or my wife would be making fun of me right now


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## xzacx (Sep 7, 2022)

It's too bad the green one is matte finish, or I'd be pretty interested, but at least it's cheaper.


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## kidmendel (Sep 7, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> The MJ stuff is too expensive for what it is. It seems like they're about $400 over the E-II or Prestige stuff. I'll bet this replaces the MJ line, and we'll find out they're built in Mexico before being finished in Corona (hence the "American" rather than "USA").


Andy Mooney (Fender CEO) is talking about integrating it into the Corona factory here and the challenges with that, so it looks like these are fully Made in US? https://www.musicradar.com/news/jackson-american-series-soloist-guitar

I'm not a Floyd Rose person at all but I'm glad these exist, they look awesome.


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## Halffarmer (Sep 7, 2022)

kidmendel said:


> https://www.musicradar.com/news/jackson-american-series-soloist-guitar


Interestingly this article mentions stainless steel frets twice but no ads, not even the Jackson site itself gives information on the fret material.
That would indeed be a valuable update over the MJ series soloist but who knows if that isn't a mistake in the article.

Also, even with all the weirdness about the bindig, tremolo, etc. the white one is absolutely beautiful as the Andertons video made me realize that it is pearl... damn you Jackson, I thought there would be no reason to upgrade from my japanese SL3

Edit: Answer to my own question: Nickel frets
At 2:54 they talk about the frets


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## technomancer (Sep 7, 2022)

It is such a shame they fucked up the slime green by making it satin...

That said a blue or black one of these may follow me home eventually.


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## mastapimp (Sep 7, 2022)

xzacx said:


> HSS is the traditional SL1 configuration and what a lot of people would most expect for a Soloist. I suppose 2H is more popular these days, but an awful lot of people have chosen HSS for Soloists over the years. You get the good traditional Strat positions with a bridge pickup that’s actually useful. It’s basically part of what the term “super Strat” was based on.


The stock pickups in my SL1 from the 90s are stacked single coils so there's no hum. The specs on these new soloists don't appear to be using stacks anymore. Might give them a different sound compared to the old classic. Wiring shows one of the pickups is reverse wound/polarity and the switching is mostly a combination of coils with the exception of neck.


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## Church2224 (Sep 7, 2022)

L


technomancer said:


> It is such a shame they fucked up the slime green by making it satin...
> 
> That said a blue or black one of these may follow me home eventually.



That just makes me want the green one even more.


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## eaeolian (Sep 7, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> The stock pickups in my SL1 from the 90s are stacked single coils so there's no hum. The specs on these new soloists don't appear to be using stacks anymore. Might give them a different sound compared to the old classic. Wiring shows one of the pickups is reverse wound/polarity and the switching is mostly a combination of coils with the exception of neck.


Yeah, they went with useful instead of quieter. I agree with this move, since the stacks never sound quite right.


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## Agalloch (Sep 7, 2022)

So where have they been making Jackson USA guitars if not in the Corona facility? I thought Jackson merged with Fender a while ago, but it sounds like there's still a separate shop for them?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 7, 2022)

Agalloch said:


> So where have they been making Jackson USA guitars if not in the Corona facility? I thought Jackson merged with Fender a while ago, but it sounds like there's still a separate shop for them?



It's sort of an annex of the main facility, which has been expanded over the years. It's much smaller than the Fender production areas and staffed differently. 

At least that's been the case since the early 00's when FMIC brought them to Corona. 

The rumor going around is that they either expanded the Jackson annex or made changes to the Fender production area to accommodate Jackson guitars as well. So using staff and equipment normally reserved for regular Fender USA production. 

You have to remember, Jackson has been custom shop only for some time now, so a move to production is something of a big deal.


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## works0fheart (Sep 7, 2022)

Man, Jackson used to be a favorite of mine but they're just so laughable now. $2500 for a non original floyd guitar with no stainless steel frets is absolutely bonkers to me. USA made or not, that's a joke.


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## Agalloch (Sep 7, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's sort of an annex of the main facility, which has been expanded over the years. It's much smaller than the Fender production areas and staffed differently.
> 
> At least that's been the case since the early 00's when FMIC brought them to Corona.
> 
> ...



Thanks! That makes sense.

It's cool to see Jackson get back to putting out some American production models, rather than exclusively custom shop stuff. I'd love to see some more USA guitars that aren't $4K plus. And based on that video above, it sounds like they plan to start offering all of their models as standard production guitars.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 7, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The rumor going around is that they either expanded the Jackson annex or made changes to the Fender production area to accommodate Jackson guitars as well. So using staff and equipment normally reserved for regular Fender USA production.


This would make sense to me considering that Fender said a bit ago most people are buying Squiers or CS, and the product lines in the middle aren't selling quite as well. If that's true, there may be room in the Fender USA production lines to make some non-Fender USA models and still meet demand.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 7, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> This would make sense to me considering that Fender said a bit ago most people are buying Squiers or CS, and the product lines in the middle aren't selling quite as well. If that's true, there may be room in the Fender USA production lines to make some non-Fender USA models and still meet demand.



It's a sign of the times. The cheaper lines have gotten so good as manufacturing overseas has matured that there's really little reason to make the $500 to $1000 jump for most players to the entry USA stuff.



works0fheart said:


> Man, Jackson used to be a favorite of mine but they're just so laughable now. $2500 for a non original floyd guitar with no stainless steel frets is absolutely bonkers to me. USA made or not, that's a joke.



The folks mostly interested in these only care about one thing: it's made in the USA. It's in the name. It's in the marketing. 

The MJ are far more competitive in spec and dress, but they're not made in the USA.


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## jephjacques (Sep 7, 2022)

Is there Actually a quality difference between the original Floyds and the imports? I've got a 1500 or whatever these jacksons are using on my USA Dean and it seems to sound and function exactly the same as the OFR on my ESP.


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## Sslfetish (Sep 7, 2022)

Then why doesn't it say made in USA if that's 100% accurate? Some peices of this enigma are missing. . .


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## zw470 (Sep 7, 2022)

Maybe I'm just being extra obtuse this afternoon, but how can they justify charging _more _for the MJ Soloist?


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## Agalloch (Sep 7, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's a sign of the times. The cheaper lines have gotten so good as manufacturing overseas has matured that there's really little reason to make the $500 to $1000 jump for most players to the entry USA stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



People are totally sleeping on the new MJ stuff. Watch that line get discontinued, then in a couple years everyone's going to be lusting after them, just like the 90s MIJ stuff.

Personally, I'm hoping for some sweet clearance deals.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 7, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Is there Actually a quality difference between the original Floyds and the imports? I've got a 1500 or whatever these jacksons are using on my USA Dean and it seems to sound and function exactly the same as the OFR on my ESP.



Yeah, they're basically the same, just made in Korea by Sung-Il instead of Germany by Schaller. 




Sslfetish said:


> Then why doesn't it say made in USA if that's 100% accurate? Some peices of this enigma are missing. . .



Says "Corona, California" on the back of the headstock. 




PromptCritical5 said:


> Maybe I'm just being extra obtuse this afternoon, but how can they justify charging _more _for the MJ Soloist?



Probably binding and all Gotoh hardware.


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## Sslfetish (Sep 7, 2022)

So does SSL products : all say Oxford England. But in reality Made in China . Word play. Btw I strip all my Jackson's imports and install gotohs.


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## Church2224 (Sep 7, 2022)

Sslfetish said:


> Then why doesn't it say made in USA if that's 100% accurate? Some peices of this enigma are missing. . .



I think it has to do with recent laws in Cali. Unless it is a certain percentage from the USA it cannot be labeled "made in the USA " if made there. Wood from global sources, hardware from Korean and Japan, frets possibly from Germany, ect. My USA Schecters have said " Made in Sun valley California" and I know they are made there.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 7, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Is there Actually a quality difference between the original Floyds and the imports? I've got a 1500 or whatever these jacksons are using on my USA Dean and it seems to sound and function exactly the same as the OFR on my ESP.


Not really. I've had both and they are equally ok. I'd just prefer the gotoh across the line.


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 7, 2022)




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## Mathemagician (Sep 7, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> The stock pickups in my SL1 from the 90s are stacked single coils so there's no hum. The specs on these new soloists don't appear to be using stacks anymore. Might give them a different sound compared to the old classic. Wiring shows one of the pickups is reverse wound/polarity and the switching is mostly a combination of coils with the exception of neck.



All I see is that EMG’s gonna fit nicely in these. 



works0fheart said:


> Man, Jackson used to be a favorite of mine but they're just so laughable now. $2500 for a non original floyd guitar with no stainless steel frets is absolutely bonkers to me. USA made or not, that's a joke.



USA mod platform bro. Just swap in whatever you want. Like an Ibby RG only it drinks monster energy and punches drywall. 




Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> This would make sense to me considering that Fender said a bit ago most people are buying Squiers or CS, and the product lines in the middle aren't selling quite as well. If that's true, there may be room in the Fender USA production lines to make some non-Fender USA models and still meet demand.



Makes sense. The ONLY gender I want is a USA Ultra series strat. Not an import with a similar bridge/specs. That specific USA model. Nothing else in the line interests me. 



PromptCritical5 said:


> Maybe I'm just being extra obtuse this afternoon, but how can they justify charging _more _for the MJ Soloist?



Have you ever played an MIJ guitar? Amazing craftsmanship typically, and the Jackson’s seems to have some higher appointments in that lineup. 




Sslfetish said:


> So does SSL products : all say Oxford England. But in reality Made in China . Word play. Btw I strip all my Jackson's imports and install gotohs.



Man gold hardware would look good on that blue jackson.


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## jephjacques (Sep 7, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> Makes sense. The ONLY gender I want is a USA Ultra series strat. Not an import with a similar bridge/specs. That specific USA model. Nothing else in the line interests me.


I have an American Elite from a couple years ago and it's a fantastic guitar, those UItras are super legit.


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## Mathemagician (Sep 7, 2022)

Lmao at my typo of guitar flipped to gender. 

But yea, the fretboard radius and neck carve are so so we’ll thought out to feel modern without becoming something else entirely. 

Like at the end of the day, I still just wanted to play Malmsteen on it.


----------



## MetalDaze (Sep 7, 2022)

Church2224 said:


> I think it has to do with recent laws in Cali. Unless it is a certain percentage from the USA it cannot be labeled "made in the USA " if made there. Wood from global sources, hardware from Korean and Japan, frets possibly from Germany, ect. My USA Schecters have said " Made in Sun valley California" and I know they are made there.



It could very well could be that, but they definitely deviated from some norms to make sure these aren't confused with what had been the USA Selects:

- Black Jackson logo instead of MOP
- Serial on the back (instead of stamped on the fretboard)
- Different serial numbering scheme
- Corona, CA replacing Made in USA
- No binding

Now, you could order a Custom Select with no binding and a black logo, but the whole serial number thing is completely different. And, the changes are more akin to what you would see on an import, fueling the conspiracy 

I agree with most that having some domestic production Jacksons is a good thing even if some of the traditions are left in the past.


----------



## gunshow86de (Sep 7, 2022)

Ariel looks very uncomfortable.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 7, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> It could very well could be that, but they definitely deviated from some norms to make sure these aren't confused with what had been the USA Selects:
> 
> - Black Jackson logo instead of MOP
> - Serial on the back (instead of stamped on the fretboard)
> ...



Like I said earlier, Jackson makes it known you're not buying top tier. 

It's like how PRS will never make a full carve import model. 

That said, all the changes make sense in the context of controlling cost and making them in a different production scheme.


----------



## tedtan (Sep 7, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> It could very well could be that, but they definitely deviated from some norms to make sure these aren't confused with what had been the USA Selects:
> 
> - Black Jackson logo instead of MOP
> - Serial on the back (instead of stamped on the fretboard)
> ...


The ”lipstick” logo was typical for Jackson in the ‘80s, so it doesn't bother me. And the serial number and Corona vs USA don’t, either.

But the lack of binding and upside down shark fins do.


----------



## MetalDaze (Sep 7, 2022)

Prediction: in 10 years, FMIC will invite Grover back for a special project. The Jackson “Iconic” series 

No offense James


----------



## oremus91 (Sep 8, 2022)

I love lack of binding personally, korean bridge doesn't bother me since the materials are the same iirc, really hoping they do a fixed bridge and a 7 string. I'm really excited for this series and looking forward to seeing if they do Charvels as well.


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 8, 2022)

All this thread has confirmed is how much I hate youtube thumbnail images.


----------



## Dr. Caligari (Sep 8, 2022)

Is it just me or do they sound kinda bad in the demos?


----------



## HoneyNut (Sep 8, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Is it just me or do they sound kinda bad in the demos?


No offense to whoever made those promo videos, but the actual sound sounds like shit. You put all that effort into a new model, and the promo sounds like absolute garbage. Whoever you are, you are definitely doing a diservice to whoever is manufacturing anything in that signal chain, be it the Duncans, or the Jacksons, or even the EVH head at the back.

Are these the same people that did the promos for the Charvels a couple years ago?

Edit: You even got Scott Ian, Misha Mansoor etc on it. How do you screw up the sound that way?


----------



## Edika (Sep 8, 2022)

Two main things bugging me for the price are foam case and Korean Floyd. Not saying the Korean Floyd is inferior but they're still USA made guitars and forgive me if I don't find them that cheap. They're cheap with current Select standards but to my eyes there were two stupid areas to cheap out. Plus no SS frets. At least I saw one store in the UK pricing them at £1999.


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## Ben Pinkus (Sep 8, 2022)

Always had a soft spot for Jackson and these look interesting, agree on some of the sound quality from promos isn't the best. 
Also not sure I'd have space in my current arsenal for one (Suhr and J custom in this space)


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 8, 2022)

Edika said:


> Two main things bugging me for the price are foam case and Korean Floyd. Not saying the Korean Floyd is inferior but they're still USA made guitars and forgive me if I don't find them that cheap. They're cheap with current Select standards but to my eyes there were two stupid areas to cheap out. Plus no SS frets. At least I saw one store in the UK pricing them at £1999.


Yeap. USA guitar for USA prices should have USA hardware.


----------



## ClownShoes (Sep 8, 2022)

works0fheart said:


> Man, Jackson used to be a favorite of mine but they're just so laughable now. $2500 for a non original floyd guitar with no stainless steel frets is absolutely bonkers to me. USA made or not, that's a joke.


Sign of the times unfortunately.

Maybe things will go back to normal once inflation is back down to 3% They have to cut corners to make money now.


----------



## xzacx (Sep 8, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> Yeap. USA guitar for USA prices should have USA hardware.


Aka, German hardware?

I think these are pretty cool, but don’t really appeal to me since “production” guitars aren't really what ever made Jackson appealing to me. If I want a Jackson, I want one-off custom stuff. I understand though there are people who want simple USA-made Jacksons, and I think the changes they made to differentiate these make a lot of sense. Student Soloists back in the day were standard with rosewood boards, dots, and no binding, so this reminds me of those when it comes to the binding. The solid logo/matching headstock and upside down shark fins are stuff you’d only see on Custom Shops, so those are probably my favorite features here (although the lack of truss rod cover makes the headstock look a little weird). And sure, not having a real OFR sucks, and I’d rather just pay more for that feature added, but point me to the brand with actual good designs that is making sub-$2,500 guitars in the US with OFRs in 2022–there can’t be many. Overall, I think these have a lot going for them, assuming they’re well made and feel like every other USA Soloist. That’s a lot to assume, but ultimately the most important part.


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 8, 2022)

xzacx said:


> Aka, German hardware?
> 
> I think these are pretty cool, but don’t really appeal to me since “production” guitars aren't really what ever made Jackson appealing to me. If I want a Jackson, I want one-off custom stuff. I understand though there are people who want simple USA-made Jacksons, and I think the changes they made to differentiate these make a lot of sense. Student Soloists back in the day were standard with rosewood boards, dots, and no binding, so this reminds me of those when it comes to the binding. The solid logo/matching headstock and upside down shark fins are stuff you’d only see on Custom Shops, so those are probably my favorite features here (although the lack of truss rod cover makes the headstock look a little weird). And sure, not having a real OFR sucks, and I’d rather just pay more for that feature added, but point me to the brand with actual good designs that is making sub-$2,500 guitars in the US with OFRs in 2022–there can’t be many. Overall, I think these have a lot going for them, assuming they’re well made and feel like every other USA Soloist. That’s a lot to assume, but ultimately the most important part.


Nope, don't give me any of that imported German crap either. Hipshot all the way.


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## Mot90DaD (Sep 8, 2022)

If I were to buy a new Jackson, I would go for the MJ without a doubt.


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## xzacx (Sep 8, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> Nope, don't give me any of that imported German crap either. Hipshot all the way.


So you think these should have been made with either the world's most generic hardtail, or a non-locking trem...two features that have never been part of what makes a Soloist a Soloist?


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## JimF (Sep 8, 2022)

Fishmans and Evertune for me thanks


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 8, 2022)

I'll tell you guys what they should have been:

Alder body with q-sawn 3p maple neck
Binding, normal mop sharkies and logo
OFR
One model with mahogany body
Colors solid gloss black, white and whatever. Red, blue?
Pickup rings for the humbuckers

Then just have them cost whatever the fuck they need to cost.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 8, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> I'll tell you guys what they should have been:
> 
> Alder body with q-sawn 3p maple neck
> Binding, normal mop sharkies and logo
> ...



That's just a "non-op" Custom Select. You can order one of those today.


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## possumkiller (Sep 8, 2022)

xzacx said:


> So you think these should have been made with either the world's most generic hardtail, or a non-locking trem...two features that have never been part of what makes a Soloist a Soloist?


And while they're at it they can knock it off with importing that Canadian commie maple and use American woods.


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 8, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's just a "non-op" Custom Select. You can order one of those today.



No I'm in Europe. And what about the wait times.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 8, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> No I'm in Europe. And what about the wait times.



The Selects are on Thomann, and as of now they exist, which is more than can be said for these new ones which are still "pre-order."


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 8, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The Selects are on Thomann, and as of now they exist, which is more than can be said for these new ones which are still "pre-order."



Hm true. Supposedly it's possible to get a normal black soloist quite quickly. It's pretty expensive though. Could almost get 2 Japanese Horizons for that.

I just think this whole "we're not gonna give people what they want because reasons" thing is ridiculous.

If they just put the normal specs that people expect on Jacksons on those production guitars I bet they'd sell loads and loads.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Sep 8, 2022)

Some cool info in this video on the build and design process:


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 8, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Hm true. Supposedly it's possible to get a normal black soloist quite quickly. It's pretty expensive though. Could almost get 2 Japanese Horizons for that.
> 
> I just think this whole "we're not gonna give people what they want because reasons" thing is ridiculous.
> 
> If they just put the normal specs that people expect on Jacksons on those production guitars I bet they'd sell loads and loads.



What happened to "whatever the cost?" 

I mean, they've offered exactly what you've described continously for something like 40 years now. Prices have fluctuated as they tend to do. In another 40 years who knows what it'll be like. 

They know folks want certain specs and will pay the price, which is a bummer if that price isn't what you're looking to spend. Which is why they offer stuff just a little different for a little less. 

I don't think what you're asking is unreasonable, an SL2H in 2022 for 2012 pricing. That ship has sailed.


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 8, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> What happened to "whatever the cost?"
> 
> I mean, they've offered exactly what you've described continously for something like 40 years now. Prices have fluctuated as they tend to do. In another 40 years who knows what it'll be like.
> 
> ...



I'm just saying they could put those specs on this production line. And the price wouldn't need to be that much higher.

Obv they don't want to. I get it. But they could and it might mean they'd sell more.


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## Agalloch (Sep 8, 2022)

It turns out that metal guitarists have a lot in common with the blooz-dads of TGP. "If it's not exactly the way it was when I was a young'un then it ain't a real Jackson."


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 8, 2022)

Agalloch said:


> It turns out that metal guitarists have a lot in common with the blooz-dads of TGP. "If it's not exactly the way it was when I was a young'un then it ain't a real Jackson."



Of course, that's how it is. You grow up looking at these guitars and when you're at the point where you can get your own you don't want something that clearly is lesser/different, do you?

I think that's normal.


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## NoodleFace (Sep 8, 2022)

That green being matte ruins it


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## eaeolian (Sep 8, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Is it just me or do they sound kinda bad in the demos?


They sound awful, as is normal for Jackson videos post Chris Cannella.


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## sell2792 (Sep 8, 2022)

Oh boy, $2,500+ for another run-of-the-mill Soloist with basic specs including no stainless frets, a non-Original Floyd Rose, basic pickup selection, and no new or innovative features to speak of.


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## jaxadam (Sep 8, 2022)

sell2792 said:


> Oh boy, $2,500+ for another run-of-the-mill Soloist with basic specs including no stainless frets, a non-Original Floyd Rose, basic pickup selection, and no new or innovative features to speak of.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 8, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> If they just put the normal specs that people expect on Jacksons on those production guitars I bet they'd sell loads and loads.





sell2792 said:


> Oh boy, $2,500+ for another run-of-the-mill Soloist with basic specs including no stainless frets, a non-Original Floyd Rose, basic pickup selection, and no new or innovative features to speak of.


The duality of man


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## sell2792 (Sep 8, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> The duality of man



I guess in my mind I'm wondering why anyone would buy a new American Series Jackson when the MIJ ones are far more interesting, as is the used market.


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## jem7vwh (Sep 8, 2022)

Like others, I was surprised how unimpressive these are. Two and half grand for ugly paint and features that can be had for half the price on a "Pro" series Soloist? All so I can say it was made in the Fender factory in Corona? Giant who cares.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 8, 2022)

jem7vwh said:


> All so I can say it was made in the Fender factory in Corona?



Yeah, that seems to be the principal marketing behind them.


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## possumkiller (Sep 8, 2022)

I don't usually care for Jacksons but I like these. I like the lack of binding. I like the truss rod location and the direct mounted pickups. Inlays look fine to me. I like the black and blue ones a lot. I definitely wouldn't spend that kind of money for one though.


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## possumkiller (Sep 8, 2022)

Also no binding at all makes more sense than the binding on just the headstock like the Japanese ones.


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## trem licking (Sep 8, 2022)

I'll argue that korean floyds are as good as the german ones all day, but these should have OG floyds on principle alone. I'm sure these are made well, but for around the same price I'd opt for the MJ for sure. Oh and should have SS frets because better, of course


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## oremus91 (Sep 8, 2022)

The one problem with these is that the MJ ones are amazing and have gotoh floyds, regardless of the 1000 series quality. Interested to see if they axe some MJs or let them compete at similar prices. I played the MJ dinky and I was blown away.

And yes to those saying that demos sound awful its true, but I don't take a lot of stock in that. The girl from the demo vids has a good sound though I forgot her name.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 8, 2022)

They are marketing it as having a "Speed neck". Is this the same Speed Neck you can get on Custom Shop King Vs and Masterbuilt or special run Soloists?


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## xzacx (Sep 8, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> They are marketing it as having a "Speed neck". Is this the same Speed Neck you can get on Custom Shop King Vs and Masterbuilt or special run Soloists?


"Starting with our Speed Neck™ profile from beloved classic Jackson Soloists—we’ve suped up the profile to include masterfully rolled edges for maximum comfort."

That's from their marketing, so it sounds like that's what it is. Too thin for me, but another good point of differentiation to this series.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 8, 2022)

xzacx said:


> "Starting with our Speed Neck™ profile from beloved classic Jackson Soloists—we’ve suped up the profile to include masterfully rolled edges for maximum comfort."
> 
> That's from their marketing, so it sounds like that's what it is. Too thin for me, but another good point of differentiation to this series.



That's interesting. I liked the King V Speed Neck when I tried one. Much flatter than the typical Soloist neck and the action feels sublime even with thick gauge strings.


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## MetalDaze (Sep 8, 2022)

xzacx said:


> "Starting with our Speed Neck™ profile from beloved classic Jackson Soloists—we’ve suped up the profile to include masterfully rolled edges for maximum comfort."
> 
> That's from their marketing, so it sounds like that's what it is. Too thin for me, but another good point of differentiation to this series.



Sort of a Jackson (speed neck) and Charvel (rolled edges) mashup.


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## eaeolian (Sep 8, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> They are marketing it as having a "Speed neck". Is this the same Speed Neck you can get on Custom Shop King Vs and Masterbuilt or special run Soloists?


Yeah, the long-form video suggests it's based on the original Shannon Soloist specs. Those necks are killer.


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## MetalDaze (Sep 8, 2022)

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Some cool info in this video on the build and design process:




This was good, now I want one


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Sep 8, 2022)

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Some cool info in this video on the build and design process:




First time learning who Alyssa Day is. She's pretty good!


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## possumkiller (Sep 8, 2022)

Is it just me or does long hair make misha mansour appear way less douchey?


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## Celtic Frosted Flakes (Sep 8, 2022)

If Jackson can produce a steady flow of the American Series so dealers always have them in stock I'm sure they are going to sell a boatload of them.

Regarding the specs I'm pretty sure few people outside the SSO care about not having SS frets or having a 1500 Series Floyd.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 8, 2022)

I tend to buy guitars older than I am so while the nickel frets are a bummer I simply wouldn't be being honest if I said that was any kind of deal breaker.


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## diogoguitar (Sep 8, 2022)

I really like real mother of pearl inlays and ebony fingerboard, but I don't understand why they don't just throw some ss frets at this $2.5k price point.

Either throw the ss frets on it, or drop the price to $1.8k to square things out. They want it to be affordable, so put on an affordable price range.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 8, 2022)

I feel like these are in competition with used usa Jackson's rather than being necessarily in competition with other brands. This hits right around where the more sane listings for some player grade 2000s usa selects are currently. It's around where I got my 93 Rhoads at a couple of years before the pandemic.

Why gamble on the many unknowns of buying used 10+ year old guitars when you can buy a basic "close enough" usa Jackson new for the same price, even if it means sacrificing binding for rolled edges and German Floyd's for 1500s. And when your hunting deals on this kind of stuff like sniping player grade usa selects there is some definite calculus going into play on just how much of a project you are getting yourself into. They are for someone who was going to buy a usa Jackson in the first place and doesn't have the money to burn on a custom select to buy new instead of used.


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 8, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> Is it just me or does long hair make misha mansour appear way less douchey?


maybe, but he opens his mouth and changes that! haha couldn't even go for two seconds without taking credit for something LOL.
I'm surprised he didn't take credit for the two "Porsche" colours as well.

I have all 4 on order though.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 8, 2022)

I'd probably have to add a made in usa decal next to the logo because it bothers me although it has no practical value. Logo itself doesn't bother me as all the 80s Jackson's had plain logos as opposed to the 90s and later mop logos.


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 8, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I have all 4 on order though.


Why?


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 8, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Why?





I work for a music retailer, we should have them soon so I can report back.


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## jahosy (Sep 8, 2022)

Hope they have a warrior lined up in this series  similar to the 90's pro with slanted pickups would be sweeter!


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## CapinCripes (Sep 8, 2022)

I know for a fact that this would have made me think twice about a used sl1 purchase. I'd just buy a waterslide made in usa decal for it. But this is promising for the possibility of small runs of interesting usa models. I'd go for a limited run fusion.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 8, 2022)

Maaaan, that black one is calling to me. Just something badass with unbound ebony boards with black headstocks and painted necks.


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## 73647k (Sep 8, 2022)

CapinCripes said:


> I'd go for a limited run fusion.



My fucking dream come true


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 8, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I work for a music retailer, we should have them soon so I can report back.


I thought you meant you were buying 4 for yourself.


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## oremus91 (Sep 8, 2022)

xzacx said:


> "Starting with our Speed Neck™ profile from beloved classic Jackson Soloists—we’ve suped up the profile to include masterfully rolled edges for maximum comfort."
> 
> That's from their marketing, so it sounds like that's what it is. Too thin for me, but another good point of differentiation to this series.


I wouldn't be so sure, I was thinking the same, but I heard in a video it went from 0.77" to 0.8something higher up. I bet it won't be as extreme as you are thinking.


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 8, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I thought you meant you were buying 4 for yourself.


lol naw bruh


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## jl-austin (Sep 8, 2022)

I see now why Gib$on keeps putting out the same junk year after year. Jackson releases something slightly different and everyone is like "Why didn't they make it like the models they've made for 30 years?"


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## AkiraSpectrum (Sep 8, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> First time learning who Alyssa Day is. She's pretty good!


Yeah I noticed her as well, checked her out on YouTube, she's pretty talented!


----------



## ClownShoes (Sep 9, 2022)

Agalloch said:


> It turns out that metal guitarists have a lot in common with the blooz-dads of TGP. "If it's not exactly the way it was when I was a young'un then it ain't a real Jackson."


Pretty simple. Don't cut corners on made in USA models.

But they have to now.


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## ClownShoes (Sep 9, 2022)

Celtic Frosted Flakes said:


> If Jackson can produce a steady flow of the American Series so dealers always have them in stock I'm sure they are going to sell a boatload of them.
> 
> Regarding the specs I'm pretty sure few people outside the SSO care about not having SS frets or having a 1500 Series Floyd.


People spending this kind of money aren't buying guitars on a whim.


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## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Yeah I noticed her as well, checked her out on YouTube, she's pretty talented!


What band are they in? That playing at the end of the video was pretty epic.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Sep 9, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> What band are they in? That playing at the end of the video was pretty epic.


no clue lol


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 9, 2022)

ClownShoes said:


> People spending this kind of money aren't buying guitars on a whim.


Sure they are


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## oremus91 (Sep 9, 2022)

ClownShoes said:


> People spending this kind of money aren't buying guitars on a whim.


You'd be surprised unfortunately.


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## Celtic Frosted Flakes (Sep 9, 2022)

ClownShoes said:


> People spending this kind of money aren't buying guitars on a whim.


Let me rephrase it - few people outside the SSO care about if a guitar has SS frets or not when spending $2500 on a guitar.

Probably 90 % of guitars in that price range have nickel frets.


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## technomancer (Sep 9, 2022)

Celtic Frosted Flakes said:


> Let me rephrase it - few people outside the SSO care about if a guitar has SS frets or not when spending $2500 on a guitar.
> 
> Probably 90 % of guitars in that price range have nickel frets.



I have never gotten the obsession of some guys on here with this. Don't get me wrong, if I am building something or ordering a custom I'll usually go with SS frets, but it has never been a deal breaker. Potentially having to refret something in 20 years is REALLY not a huge deal...

Honestly the only spec on these that is annoying are the upside down sharkfins


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## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

The shark fin orientation looks fine to me. Actually better than the usual reverse shark fins because now the angled part still follows along the headstock angle instead of against it.


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## eaeolian (Sep 9, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> Is it just me or does long hair make misha mansour appear way less douchey?


I actually thought it made him look more sketchy.


----------



## tedtan (Sep 9, 2022)

ClownShoes said:


> Pretty simple. Don't cut corners on made in USA models.
> 
> But they have to now.


More like:

”Don't cut corners on made in USA models. Oh, and sell it to us for the same price you sold it for 15 years ago in spite of all the inflation we’ve experienced lately.”


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## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> I actually thought it made him look more sketchy.


Exactly! Which makes him look less douchey. Now he looks like he would be knocking on the door at 2am trying to buy.


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

tedtan said:


> More like:
> 
> ”Don't cut corners on made in USA models. Oh, and sell it to us for the same price you sold it for 15 years ago in spite of all the inflation we’ve experienced lately.”


I mean they literally cut the corners off the fret tangs so they won't have any visible fret slots on the edge of the fretboard. Way to cheap out Jackson! I want the rest of my frets!


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## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

absolutely furious that they didn't use stainless steel frets. i play all of my guitars for 31 hours a day, each. my grip strength is colossal. I use diamond-coated tungsten strings. my sweat is incredibly corrosive and I am constantly sweating and screaming. if I don't have stainless steel frets my dick gets smaller


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

my M8M doesn't have SS frets so it's basically only good for firewood now. I'm gonna throw it in a wood chipper (which will not be damaged because of no stainless steel frets)


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## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

The more I look at these, the more I like them. That blue one in particular is just full of pure win.


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## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

can't BELIEVE they didn't put binding on guitars that were meant to be more easily mass produced and approachable in price. wish they'd cut corners in other ways like gibson so I could have binding on my MADE IN CORONA jackson soloist


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## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

the bridge made in korea is inferior to the one made in germany because uhhhhhhhh


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## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

real talk though: my friend got a pro series soloist and after a setup it is a SHOCKINGLY nice guitar for the money. there's really very little reason to shell out big bucks for guitars anymore unless you're an idiot like me


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## mbardu (Sep 9, 2022)

technomancer said:


> I have never gotten the obsession of some guys on here with this. Don't get me wrong, if I am building something or ordering a custom I'll usually go with SS frets, but it has never been a deal breaker. Potentially having to refret something in 20 years is REALLY not a huge deal...
> 
> Honestly the only spec on these that is annoying are the upside down sharkfins



Whenever this topic comes up, it's always the same thing.
It has very little to do with refretting the guitar. Most people will probably never have a guitar refretted.
It's just entirely more about less maintenance, less wear on the strings, and just a much better feel when you actually bend the strings.
Which I suspect you probably don't feel nearly as much when chugging so maybe that's part of why some people don't care or don't see a difference?

Of course it's just a _preference _and doesn't have to be a dealbreaker ... but the urge to jump on the hate-wagon against people who just happen to have a preference is a bit weird.


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

My dude, SS frets are HARDER than strings. They wear 'em out FASTER. And while I do think they feel a little nicer, it's not a big deal. I'd say 3/4 of my guitars have SS frets by happenstance, but it's just not very important.


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## oremus91 (Sep 9, 2022)

I find myself preferring the feel of SS fets, but that being said I played an MJ Jackson dinky and the frets were so good that if you told me it was SS I would believe you. If this is anything like those, I truly don't care.


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## eaeolian (Sep 9, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> absolutely furious that they didn't use stainless steel frets. i play all of my guitars for 31 hours a day, each. my grip strength is colossal. I use diamond-coated tungsten strings. my sweat is incredibly corrosive and I am constantly sweating and screaming. if I don't have stainless steel frets my dick gets smaller


You've got an AI drawing your comic, don't you?


----------



## mbardu (Sep 9, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> My dude, SS frets are HARDER than strings. They wear 'em out FASTER. And while I do think they feel a little nicer, it's not a big deal. I'd say 3/4 of my guitars have SS frets by happenstance, but it's just not very important.



SS frets are HARDER. So they don't get tiny grooves or indents. So they don't cut into strings.
They are also stainless. So they don't corrode strings.
The strings will last longer as a result. By quite a bit.

Again- not the biggest deal in the world. But on top of better feel, more convenience and less waste.


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 9, 2022)

oremus91 said:


> I find myself preferring the feel of SS fets, but that being said I played an MJ Jackson dinky and the frets were so good that if you told me it was SS I would believe you. If this is anything like those, I truly don't care.


My theory is that companies that are pushing the SS frets as a feature spend more time on them, so that's really what you're feeling. I have noticed no difference between good "traditional" frets and SS in feel. YMMV.


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> My theory is that companies that are pushing the SS frets as a feature spend more time on them, so that's really what you're feeling. I have noticed no difference between good "traditional" frets and SS in feel. YMMV.


This. A guitar teacher at my college had a warmoth neck with ss frets when I first heard the big fuss about ss frets being smooth as glass and better playing than nickel. It didn't feel any smoother than my ESP. Nickel frets that are properly set up and polished to a mirror finish play just as smooth. Most guitars just don't get that much attention on the frets. Apart from custom shop stuff, you need to get a good luthier to get your frets that nicely polished.


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## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

mbardu said:


> SS frets are HARDER. So they don't get tiny grooves or indents. So they don't cut into strings.
> They are also stainless. So they don't corrode strings.
> The strings will last longer as a result. By quite a bit.
> 
> Again- not the biggest deal in the world. But on top of better feel, more convenience and less waste.


this is...not how string wear happens? The corrosion is from oil and sweat on your hands or moisture in the atmosphere. Stainless frets wear flat spots into the bottom of strings over time, quite a bit faster than nickel ones. If your frets are so chewed up they're _cutting into the strings_ either you're playing a guitar from 1957 or you're doing something fucked up


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## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> My theory is that companies that are pushing the SS frets as a feature spend more time on them, so that's really what you're feeling. I have noticed no difference between good "traditional" frets and SS in feel. YMMV.


in my experience SS do hold that polished feel longer, but also polishing up nickel frets isn't particularly difficult or time consuming if you really love how that feels.


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## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> You've got an AI drawing your comic, don't you?


actually it's several starving artists i keep chained in my basement


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## mbardu (Sep 9, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> this is...not how string wear happens? The corrosion is from oil and sweat on your hands or moisture in the atmosphere. Stainless frets wear flat spots into the bottom of strings over time, quite a bit faster than nickel ones. If your frets are so chewed up they're _cutting into the strings_ either you're playing a guitar from 1957 or you're doing something fucked up



Then by that logic I guess walking barefoot on sharp rusty floor is less damaging than on a flat polished stainless surface; just because the flat surface is harder ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Oh no, it will give your feet flat spots, the horror  !

Sadly (or thankfully), less even things with ridges notches and grooves (even tiny invisible ones) _do _wear out material (strings included) faster than flat even surfaces.
That's not especially news and that's why we have such high-tech things as sandpaper.


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## xzacx (Sep 9, 2022)

Fret material ranks just above body wood species at the very bottom of the list of specs I give a shit about. I'll take stainless if given the option, but probably won't actually look for or ask what they are on something that already exists. Wood species, on the other hand, I don't even have a preference on unless it's strictly aesthetic purposes—but I usually prefer opaque finishes, so it makes no difference.


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## jephjacques (Sep 9, 2022)

mbardu said:


> Then by that logic I guess walking barefoot on sharp rusty floor is less damaging than on a flat polished stainless surface; just because the flat surface is harder ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Oh no, it will give your feet flat spots
> 
> Sadly (or thankfully), less even things with ridges notches and grooves (even tiny invisible ones) _do _wear out material (strings included) faster than flat even surfaces.
> That's not especially news and that's why we have high-tech things like sandpaper.


absoiutely incredible false equivalence


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## technomancer (Sep 9, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> My theory is that companies that are pushing the SS frets as a feature spend more time on them, so that's really what you're feeling. I have noticed no difference between good "traditional" frets and SS in feel. YMMV.



Exactly. Every time this comes up I think the people talking about "feel difference" don't properly maintain and clean their non-ss frets. If your frets are dirty enough that they feel rough you need to change strings and clean them. That's true for SS or nickel frets.


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## mbardu (Sep 9, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> absoiutely incredible false equivalence



Oh you mean the false equivalence that a rough/coarse material will be more damaging than a smooth one, and that we figured that a long time ago?

You're right though. I should have said "drag your feet back and forth repeatedly" rather than just "walk". Since this is what we do when we bend or vibrato.
I guess our bloody feet feel better from the sharp floor cuts now


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## mbardu (Sep 9, 2022)

technomancer said:


> Exactly. Every time this comes up I think the people talking about "feel difference" don't properly maintain and clean their non-ss frets. If your frets are dirty enough that they feel rough you need to change strings and clean them. That's true for SS or nickel frets.



You can get _any _guitar into a terrible shape by not taking care of it. There are just degrees to things. Maintenance is just objectively way less with stainless steel, and the frets and strings will stay good longer without having to worry about it as much. As in strings lasting twice as long, and needing to polish your frets maybe 3 times less upon string change (and that's being generous there depending on which nickel frets).

That doesn't mean nickel is bad or a dealbreaker and nobody said so.
But it doesn't mean _either _that people who happen to _prefer stainless _are automatically dumbos who can't maintain shit. And yet people _sure _like to imply it that way, don't they.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 9, 2022)

Again pretty sure these are for the guys considering a used usa select. I know because I'm the market they are catering to here. I tend to buy American and Japanese guitars older than I am and occasionally find myself in over my head on a guitar in terms of just how much wear went on in the past 30 or so years on it. Would I trade binding for rolled edges? Yes. Would I trade a German Floyd's for a 1500? Yes, if it starts having problems it's replaceable and not like putting a special on it or something. It's not like I haven't had a couple bridges break on me before. How about stainless frets? I like the idea of them but again, I buy guitars older than I am to the point that it's becoming a problem. Stainless frets weren't a thing 30 years ago. So your telling me I can get a stripped down usa Jackson workhorse for 2500 and I don't even have to fix it? Sounds good to me.


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## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

These same specs but with a Rhodes body with H_S _pickups would be an epic win.


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## jaxadam (Sep 9, 2022)

I do not even know what stainless steel frets are and I couldn't tell you which guitars I have that have them and I couldn’t care less.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 9, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> These same specs but with a Rhodes body with H_S _pickups would be an epic win.


I've been warming up to that config on a Rhoads. Used to be 1 hum or hh on anything but a strat or superstrats. But hs could definitely work. I think it was the new Alexi and the concept series hs Rhoads that warmed me up to them.


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## possumkiller (Sep 9, 2022)

CapinCripes said:


> I've been warming up to that config on a Rhoads. Used to be 1 hum or hh on anything but a strat or superstrats. But hs could definitely work. I think it was the new Alexi and the concept series hs Rhoads that warmed me up to them.


Yeah I remember seeing some CoB DVD behind the scenes stuff and roope hotlava pulled out this sweet ass H_S _white Rhodes with thin pin stripes on the bevels that really sold me on it.


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## technomancer (Sep 9, 2022)

mbardu said:


> You can get _any _guitar into a terrible shape by not taking care of it. There are just degrees to things. Maintenance is just objectively way less with stainless steel, and the frets and strings will stay good longer without having to worry about it as much. As in strings lasting twice as long, and needing to polish your frets maybe 3 times less upon string change (and that's being generous there depending on which nickel frets).
> 
> That doesn't mean nickel is bad or a dealbreaker and nobody said so.
> But it doesn't mean _either _that people who happen to _prefer stainless _are automatically dumbos who can't maintain shit. And yet people _sure _like to imply it that way, don't they.



I actually prefer stainless... and you taking offense after implying that anybody that is ok with nickel is only playing chugs is hilarious


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## Mathemagician (Sep 9, 2022)

While I personally would have liked to see a price point closer to about $2200, I’d be lying if the last bit would be a dealbreaker for me. 




JimF said:


> Fishmans and Evertune for me thanks



Lmao oh god no!



jahosy said:


> Hope they have a warrior lined up in this series  similar to the 90's pro with slanted pickups would be sweeter!



I can guarantee you they won’t. Not based on any inside knowledge. Just on their willingness to let that line almost languish for like ever. 



oremus91 said:


> I wouldn't be so sure, I was thinking the same, but I heard in a video it went from 0.77" to 0.8something higher up. I bet it won't be as extreme as you are thinking.



I don’t know what those magic numbers mean but it sounds like a good thing. I don’t want an Ibanez. As I hate their necks.


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## mbardu (Sep 9, 2022)

technomancer said:


> I actually prefer stainless... and you taking offense after implying that anybody that is ok with nickel is only playing chugs is hilarious



There's nothing wrong with chugs, is there? That wasn't meant to be derogatory at all despite what you seem to be getting at..
You're definitely going to feel less difference in smoothness with some playing patterns than with others, that's all.


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## xzacx (Sep 9, 2022)

mbardu said:


> You can get _any _guitar into a terrible shape by not taking care of it. There are just degrees to things. Maintenance is just objectively way less with stainless steel, and the frets and strings will stay good longer without having to worry about it as much. As in strings lasting twice as long, and needing to polish your frets maybe 3 times less upon string change (and that's being generous there depending on which nickel frets).
> 
> That doesn't mean nickel is bad or a dealbreaker and nobody said so.
> But it doesn't mean _either _that people who happen to _prefer stainless _are automatically dumbos who can't maintain shit. And yet people _sure _like to imply it that way, don't they.


I don't think you're necessarily wrong, I just don't think the difference is material enough to matter to lots of people. Maybe I'm just fortunate to have clean hands and non-corrosive sweat, but I don't have any issues with strings not lasting long enough due to fret material or needing a fret polishing at excessive intervals—and I've never known anyone with those issues. But if there are people that do have them, I'd make sense for them to care more about stainless. I think the disconnect comes from here though, because this isn't remotely a thing for me, even on the guitars I play daily with nickel.


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## Agalloch (Sep 9, 2022)

I don't know why everyone always freaks out about stainless steel frets. Basically none of the custom shop Jacksons have SS frets either. (I actually have a Soloist with SS frets, but I lucked out with that find.)

I mean, I love SS frets, but well-dressed nickel frets can be just as good if not better. It's the craftsmanship that counts. There are plenty of top-tier guitars that don't use SS frets (ESP, PRS, Jackson, Ibanez J Customs). If you _need_ SS frets, there are tons of options these days.


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## mbardu (Sep 9, 2022)

xzacx said:


> I don't think you're necessarily wrong, I just don't think the difference is material enough to matter to lots of people. Maybe I'm just fortunate to have clean hands and non-corrosive sweat, but I don't have any issues with strings not lasting long enough due to fret material or needing a fret polishing at excessive intervals—and I've never known anyone with those issues. But if there are people that do have them, I'd make sense for them to care more about stainless. I think the disconnect comes from here though, because this isn't remotely a thing for me, even on the guitars I play daily with nickel.



The difference is not life-changing or deal-breaking for most people by any means.
But very few things on a guitar are, and yet there are entire industries built around minutiae and we debate details ad vitam aeternam 
The non negligible convenience of being able to keep a bunch of guitars feeling fresh/smooth with way less maintenance can be worth it to some people over say the minute difference in tonewoods or %age difference of winding on a pickup. Things that some people value over everything else. If you don't even want to go into the "smooth feel preference" debate, I'd even say this one is at least actually objectively measurable (5 minute fret polishing x times + cost of pack of strings times y packs etc), vs a lot of things that are a _lot _more subjective in the guitar world.

It's Jackson's call to not put stainless steel frets on their models, all guitars can't be everything to everyone.
But somehow people reacting with "this guitar is not for me because it doesn't have the things I prefer" are wrong, and must be dumb for having opinion or preference?
They are bad at setting up guitars/they have dirty hands/they don't know what they're talking about somehow?
Just weird ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.


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## eaeolian (Sep 9, 2022)

I can see a similar Rhoads having its own line like this. They don't sell enough of the other shapes to get a dedicated line, IMO.
The HSS Soloist is the most versatile guitar they make, and pitching it at the non-metal crowd makes sense to certain degree.


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## eaeolian (Sep 9, 2022)

I think the SS fret horse is dead.


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## mbardu (Sep 9, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> I think the SS fret horse is dead.



You sure? Might need a bit more beating considering the Stainless horse is so much HARDER than the nickel horse


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## zw470 (Sep 9, 2022)

Someone should make fretwire out of Inconel 718


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## mogar (Sep 9, 2022)

Another really good demo from Brandon Ellis.


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## MetalDaze (Sep 9, 2022)

mbardu said:


> You sure? Might need a bit more beating considering the Stainless horse is so much HARDER than the nickel horse



That’s why clubs used to beat the stainless horse don’t last as long as the ones used on the nickel horse


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## oremus91 (Sep 9, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> My theory is that companies that are pushing the SS frets as a feature spend more time on them, so that's really what you're feeling. I have noticed no difference between good "traditional" frets and SS in feel. YMMV.


I'm mostly on the SS train but one thing I realized only recently too is that not all are created equal, there are various levels of hardness for SS as there are for nickel (like PRS using harder than normal nickel frets). This sort of made me not automatically put SS frets above nickel when I don't know the exact material, and I would take a good playing guitar over fret material too.


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## oremus91 (Sep 9, 2022)

Just want to state once more JACKSON IF YOU ARE READING THIS MAKE A FIXED BRIDGE SUPERSTRAT AND/OR A 7 STRING IN THIS LINE.


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## gunshow86de (Sep 10, 2022)




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## Seabeast2000 (Sep 10, 2022)

JimF said:


> Fishmans and Evertune for me thanks


Exactly.


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## trem licking (Sep 10, 2022)

It's mega simple. Any modern guitar geared toward mid/high end market should have SS frets. While not deal breaking, it should be so


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## jonsick (Sep 11, 2022)

Have actually now played one in the flesh. I wanted to hold off saying anything until I actually tried one.

First of all, the aesthetics. To me, it doesn't look right to me. I think the choice of having the truss rod adjustment at the neck heal makes the headstock look a little bare. I didn't see too much difference aesthetically between it and a DK2. I don't like the reverse sharkfin inlays. I think some sort of confirmatory decal that shows the guitar as not a cheapy import would be nice. While Made In USA is pretty much for the USA handmades and I would say aren't appropriate here, I would say something like American Series would be nice. But my main bug bears, the flat matte finish and the stupid direct mount humbucker pickup.

Comparing to other guitars of a similar price bracket, this doesn't LOOK like £2k worth of guitar. My Ibanez has some really nice aesthetic accoutrements that screams, "I'm a high-priced instrument". Same as my ESPs, Jackson USAs, even my old BC Rich Japanese Warlock has that certain look to it that when put next to any of the imports I've had over the years, any onlooker could pick it out. This Jackson? Not really. It's almost like you would have to remind yourself how much it cost you every so often.

And now that stupid direct mount humbucker. There is no adjustment possible with the humbucker. This is a typical problem with direct mount pickups and how they are mounted. While I'm aware of how to properly make it so a direct mount pickup has some adjustment, to me they neither sound right or look right when direct mounted. And if I know how to properly direct mount, shouldn't Jackson know? I would have preferred to see a standard pickup ring here. Why Jackson is opting for this mechanism of direct mounting on damned near everything is crazy to me. It looks cheap, sounds bad and the lack of adjustment is a pain in the hole.

But sounds and playability. To me, it sounded and played fine. I don't know what pickups are in it, but felt the single coils a little weak compared to the humbucker. While some of that may be down to lack of adjustment possibilities, the balance across the pickups on my Jackson SL1 is a lot better. And those I believe were just the stock pickups.

I couldn't see anything like the QC issues the Japanese Concept series had. I went through three of those and finally got a refund on the third when it was no bueno. Here, there were no paint folds, not a lot of filler around the inlays and everything felt fine. But that was it, it only felt fine. Picking up the Mick Thompson sig next to it which was £1300 cheaper, I couldn't see a huge amount of difference in the QC dept and frankly, I just simply enjoyed playing the MIck Thompson a lot more. I almost left with it in fact.

My biggest problem was I felt there was something up with the neck dimensions. Though it was a thin-ish neck which is what I would expect, the fretboard just seemed a little too round to me. If I didn't know better, I would have said that they just grabbed a bunch of necks from the Fender assembly line and cut a Jackson headstock instead. The neck felt far more like of my American Elite Stratocaster than it did any Jackson I own. I think I was expecting flat and fast and when I realised I wasn't going to get it, I started to wonder what the hell Jackson were thinking. Coming home, yep, my Strat feels a lot more like this Jackson than any of my actual Jacksons. Odd...

Overall, my impression was they have cheaped out a little here and are just playing at getting product out the door as easily and quickly as they can. Fender have been doing this for a while. I bought one of the Modern 2HB strats during the pandemic and was told that Fender just went to their Japanese plants and asked them to send over whatever they can to get product on the shelves. While they aren't bad guitars, I don't think they it was worth what I paid. But c'est la vie. We're here to talk about this Jackson. 

While you are getting a perfectly fine guitar for the money, you are plain getting a better deal with an E-II or a high end Ibanez which is Jackson's primary competition here. I love Jackson and my favourite guitars in my collection are Jackson USAs so it pains me to slate them in any way. But this just didn't flick my switch. It was only OK. And their choice to use the FR1500 is a huge mistake. While it is far better quality than those rancid Floyd Rose Specials that really are not suitable for use anywhere, it isn't an OFR. While I can forgive the fact it's in a shop and likely hasn't had the proper attention paid to it, if I hadn't had brought an allen key with me, I'd have been trying out a very untuned guitar. Once tuned up, the guitar is OK. But it really is only OK. And if only OK is what £2000 buys you in Jackson money, I'm afraid I'm out. 

Put it this way, I went in as a genuine buyer, credit card in pocket ready to grab one. In my head, its main contenders were my ESP M-II and the Ibanez RG5170BK that I already have in my collection as they are similarly priced. I have a bunch of superstrats but these two are my most similarly priced and I'm very familiar with them. The ESP's neck is definitely the thickest with Ibanez certainly being the thinnest. I like both, but would suggest the Ibanez neck was the fastest, the ESP's having the fuller tone. This Jackson? Well, it didn't really beat either of them in any department. It just felt like a neck. Nice enough, but not the speed demon I wanted it to be.

So after all that, I left it on the shelf and don't have any regrets. I like variety in my guitars, but next to the ESP and Ibanez I already own, they are streets ahead. And if you are headed out with £2k in your bonnet to buy a superstrat, I would push you towards either E-II or Ibanez. And no, I never thought I would ever be saying that either.

If Jackson want to charge £2,000 for something and don't quite want to stretch to that being the SL1 or SL2H that any Jackson player knows and loves, then they need to spec these better. Move the truss rod adjustment tot he top so it looks like a premium high-end Jackson and don't just nick some necks off of Fender's line; pickup mounting ring please, these direct mount pickups are total shite; the tuners felt a little rough to me for a £2k instrument; why no OFR; if you want to charge £2k for something that is made in USA and meant to be a real contender, a decal that confirms as such on the headstock is needed otherwise it looks like a DK2 you can buy for £500. And the biggest thing, if you're going for the 80s look, lose the satin matte finishes. We want lairy flashy colours, not something that looks like our Dad's old estate/station wagon cars or my Mom's 1970s taste in living room furniture. In fact, you may as well have painted it brown! We want finishes that wouldn't look out of place with Eddie Van Halen's face glaring over the top in some fast-paced stage shot with some fluffy boot clad leg kicks going on. And when you start trying to throw out some Eruption chops, that neck has to take it and run with it. Not just be generally accepting of it and feeling like it's close to choking out.

My verdict: needs improvement.


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## Flappydoodle (Sep 11, 2022)

The marketing for these is intensive

YouTube is absolutely flooded. Every single retailer. Every single "YouTuber". They even obviously got the same talking point list that they have to say. A bunch of them saying the same things word-for-word.

End of the day, they're some average superstrats, coming in at a fairly expensive price point. And a whole bunch of asterisks* for the marketing points - the Korean hardware, not actually being "Made in USA", still having some wonky inlays and finish work.

I would be someone definitely in the right demographic for this. I've never owned a Jackson, but I do like my Caparisons and ESPs. So a MIA Jackson is something I'd definitely be up for. But it has to be good.


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 11, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> The marketing for these is intensive
> 
> YouTube is absolutely flooded. Every single retailer. Every single "YouTuber". They even obviously got the same talking point list that they have to say. A bunch of them saying the same things word-for-word.
> 
> ...


Ola talked about these on SWOLA today. Said Jackson asked if he wanted to be part of the release videos but He declined to avoid appearing as a paid video. He did receive one to demo which he showed on video but said he’s going to wait about a month to do his demo/review so he doesn’t get lumped in with the paid promos.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 11, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> not actually being "Made in USA"



Has that been reliably confirmed? Where?


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## xzacx (Sep 11, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Has that been reliably confirmed? Where?


No. Multiple dealers have confirmed that it is built in the US, but people are believing what they want.


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## oracles (Sep 11, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Has that been reliably confirmed? Where?



No, everyone with a hand in these, dealers etc has confirmed these are built in Corona, they just can't say "built in the USA" because of Californian law


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## technomancer (Sep 11, 2022)

oracles said:


> No, everyone with a hand in these, dealers etc has confirmed these are built in Corona, they just can't say "built in the USA" because of Californian law



Yep... but some people have to see conspiracies everywhere.


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 11, 2022)

Made in America or not, there's just too much wrong with these guitars.

On another note, am I the only one who feels like Jackson are kind of out of touch with things generally? Like, do they know what they're doing? Do they know who their customers are? Looking at all this marketing, it's just so... "uncool"? I feel like if ESP did this they'd at least make the guitars _seem_ cool.


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## oremus91 (Sep 11, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Made in America or not, there's just too much wrong with these guitars.
> 
> On another note, am I the only one who feels like Jackson are kind of out of touch with things generally? Like, do they know what they're doing? Do they know who their customers are? Looking at all this marketing, it's just so... "uncool"? I feel like if ESP did this they'd at least make the guitars _seem_ cool.


Can you elaborate? Alyssa Day's vid with the SL3 is great, Travis Levrier is touring with intervals with one, and then a few of the other of their long-time artists that you'd expect which are probably the corny parts to you? How is it different from when neural drops a plugin and everyone and their mom on the internet has a same-day demo ready?

Also an edit: Jackson is a heritage brand at this point, they need new customers too. They have to have Scott Ian to appeal to their old base, and people like Alyssa Day to bring in new ones.


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## zw470 (Sep 11, 2022)

I've even seen ads for them on TikTok.


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## josh1 (Sep 11, 2022)

3 grand and you get a 1500 series Floyd



No thanks


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## Sslfetish (Sep 11, 2022)

I've been fortunate scoring late 80's and 90's , and yes 2000's usa's fir reasonable prices. Most basically unplayed. Beautiful examples with everything this doesn't have for between 2500 and 3500 cdn in extreme cases. Then I bought a basic soloist indo in white new for 700 cdn w case. It has binding. Plays great. In Canada that new American is basically 4 grand. Sorry no can do. Ymmv. Pics in the Jackson charvel thread
...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 11, 2022)

Man we're so cynical about these guitars that we're even complaining about the marketing not being cool?


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## mmr007 (Sep 11, 2022)

All this seems like the perfect reason for Jackson to release a soloist with a Kahler. All the floyd corksniffers will have to sit that one out.


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## technomancer (Sep 11, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Man we're so cynical about these guitars that we're even complaining about the marketing not being cool?



It's ss.org, 90% of the posters never actually buy anything over $1k and complain about everything


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## Church2224 (Sep 11, 2022)

I am just glad we will be getting USA Made Jacksons that, upon initial reviews from dealers, will be of a consistent quality. Stuff from the Jackson USA Custom shop, or Jackson USA Period, has been so hit and miss over years....


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 11, 2022)

josh1 said:


> 3 grand and you get a 1500 series Floyd
> 
> 
> 
> No thanks


To be fair I’m guessing you’d pay $2500 for this not the listed MAP.


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## jl-austin (Sep 11, 2022)

I'm in the "never buy guitars for over $1k crowd", but I think these are cool. I would want one, but I don't buy guitars over 1k.


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## Seabeast2000 (Sep 11, 2022)

jl-austin said:


> I'm in the "never buy guitars for over $1k crowd", but I think these are cool. I would want one, but I don't buy guitars over 1k.


Your time has finally arrived.


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## oracles (Sep 11, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> All this seems like the perfect reason for Jackson to release a soloist with a Kahler. All the floyd corksniffers will have to sit that one out.



Throw a Kahler on it and near no one will buy it. If you think people are vocal about what FR is on it now, the whining will increase tenfold with the addition of Kahler.


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## mmr007 (Sep 11, 2022)

oracles said:


> Throw a Kahler on it and near no one will buy it. If you think people are vocal about what FR is on it now, the whining will increase tenfold with the addition of Kahler.


You are poking very valid holes in my reasoning rendering my argument useless. Please don't do that.


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## jonsick (Sep 12, 2022)

Oh I fully believe it is made in USA or Corona. Whatever we are meant to say, I don't think there is some conspiracy. The thing is, since I've come home, I've had hands around my USA Strat for a good amount of time and whether my mind is playing tricks on me or what, I would say that the necks are identical. I almost want to go back with it and AB them. 

If that Mick Thompson soloist appears in my dreams enough I may well do that on the way. But ultimately, I don't believe the conspiracy that there's some scam going on.

As for Jackson USA, I currently own 6 individual Jackson USAs and have traded on about ten or so over the last ten years. I think I'm pretty confident in saying that the output of the USA shop is consistent. While we have all seen that 23 fret Kelly and some other bloopers, I honestly think that this is the rare case and potentially not as emblematic of Jackson USA as people like to bleat on about. I've come across high-end guitars from other brands that were worse with some rather obvious and irritating flaws to them. Either that or so far I've been very lucky with Jackson USA.


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## narad (Sep 12, 2022)

If Brandon Ellis is playing it, it's cool to me. Not sure how that marketing is a failure. I'd just rather chase the 80s Jacksons that Brandon plays 90% of the time he's not on the custom shop kelly.


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 12, 2022)

jonsick said:


> Oh I fully believe it is made in USA or Corona. Whatever we are meant to say, I don't think there is some conspiracy. The thing is, since I've come home, I've had hands around my USA Strat for a good amount of time and whether my mind is playing tricks on me or what, I would say that the necks are identical. I almost want to go back with it and AB them.
> 
> If that Mick Thompson soloist appears in my dreams enough I may well do that on the way. But ultimately, I don't believe the conspiracy that there's some scam going on.
> 
> As for Jackson USA, I currently own 6 individual Jackson USAs and have traded on about ten or so over the last ten years. I think I'm pretty confident in saying that the output of the USA shop is consistent. While we have all seen that 23 fret Kelly and some other bloopers, I honestly think that this is the rare case and potentially not as emblematic of Jackson USA as people like to bleat on about. I've come across high-end guitars from other brands that were worse with some rather obvious and irritating flaws to them. Either that or so far I've been very lucky with Jackson USA.



Have you not had problems with the bridge route alignment being off with the neck, putting the high e too close to the fretboard edge?


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 12, 2022)

narad said:


> If Brandon Ellis is playing it, it's cool to me. Not sure how that marketing is a failure. I'd just rather chase the 80s Jacksons that Brandon plays 90% of the time he's not on the custom shop kelly.



I had to google who that is.

I did see the guitarist from Exmortus (cool band, In Hatred's Flame is very good) talk about these guitars in a video but he sounded like a robot reading from a script.

I'm wondering, does anybody play these because they like them, or is it because they're getting paid? If it's the latter it somehow doesn't mean as much.


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## jonsick (Sep 12, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Have you not had problems with the bridge route alignment being off with the neck, putting the high e too close to the fretboard edge?


I have a pretty big familiarity with the six I own. Well five as one is only recently a new addition and I've not messed with it yet. But as I play them all fairly regularly, I can't say that I have.

I generally do a good amount of work to anything I buy used (and new I guess), making sure frets are level, nice and clean, no previous player gunk, etc. 

Of the ones I have personally owned, no I honestly can't say I've ever noticed anything like that. I have one sat on my lap right now and even if I try to notice something that isn't a nick that I did, I can't honestly say I have.

Why are these problems prevalent in Jackson USAs? That being the case, I'll certainly look out for those in particular in future, but to date, nope. I have either just been lucky or not noticed and if I haven't noticed, how big a problem was it really?


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## narad (Sep 12, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> I had to google who that is.
> 
> I did see the guitarist from Exmortus (cool band, In Hatred's Flame is very good) talk about these guitars in a video but he sounded like a robot reading from a script.
> 
> I'm wondering, does anybody play these because they like them, or is it because they're getting paid? If it's the latter it somehow doesn't mean as much.



The only people playing a particular guitar because they like them are either too off the radar to get an endorsement, or too rich to care.


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## possumkiller (Sep 12, 2022)

Lol there is finally a Jackson I like and everybody's hating on it already.


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## jonsick (Sep 12, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> Lol there is finally a Jackson I like and everybody's hating on it already.


If you like it then sod what everyone else says. Including me!

I went to the shop to like it too, but in the end I did not. But that does not mean it is a universal truth. I don't know why people are saying the finishes are flawed and scrappy. The few that were on display in my local store did not appear to have any cosmetic flaws. That's unlike the Concepts which, well, I couldn't get one without some pretty significant flaws so ended up getting refunded.

I personally decided that the guitar was not for me, but that does not mean it's not for you. Whether or not it's worth it's £2000 asking price, well, personally I think you can get better overall for the same money. But if it flicks your switch then go for it.

I am dead against direct mounted pickups. I'm sure you can hear that already.

Added to that, the more I try them, I am against metal guitars with its truss rod adjustment at the heal of the neck. I have a DK2 with its adjustment here - and another DK2 with the adjustment at the headstock end. This is something I noticed to some degree on this Jackson too. That is, when the adjustment is at the heal, you lose the ability to keep proper tension of the truss rod on the lower registers of the neck (i.e. 0-4th fret). Now, if you're just playing chords or nothing too intricate, it's fine. However I do notice on my DK2 and did so on this Jackson AS to a point that if you're doing anything fast and Cannibal Corpsey down there on those lower registers, I felt the tendency for the neck to flex and the notes to warble a little was absolutely there. I get it on my DK2, I got it on this one, and I get it on my Fender Telecaster all of which have adjustment of the truss rod down by this location. And the way guitars are generally constructed, it does make sense, that is that stabilisation does not extend to the area of the neck where it is basically needed for rock and metal. My only other guitar with adjustment at the heal is my Schecter, not gone to try it out yet.

While a guitar can certainly warble with pressure anywhere on the neck depending on what sort of quality the guitar is, I can compare this directly with any of my guitars with the primary qualifier being where exactly the truss rod adjustment is - whether it's at the headstock or heal end. No matter how Cannibal Corpsey I get with guitars where the truss rod adjustment as at the nut, no warbling. I can pull some of them out of tune by pulling the neck back Slash-style, but I don't do that through the normal course of my playing. But without exception, any of my own guitars (and this Jackson AS), do some fast death metal action on those lower registers and the notes will warble.


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## ClownShoes (Sep 12, 2022)

technomancer said:


> It's ss.org, 90% of the posters never actually buy anything over $1k and complain about everything


My thoughts are worthless because I will never buy a new guitar for as long as I live.


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## ClownShoes (Sep 12, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Have you not had problems with the bridge route alignment being off with the neck, putting the high e too close to the fretboard edge?


Yep, it's the first thing you have to look for on any used soloist.

It's why occasionally you'll see listings without a front-on shot


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## jonsick (Sep 12, 2022)

ClownShoes said:


> Yep, it's the first thing you have to look for on any used soloist.
> 
> It's why occasionally you'll see listings without a front-on shot


Hmmm. I cannot say I have ever experienced this first hand or was even aware it was a thing.

I'm certainly happy to get my rulers out and check out my current crop of Jacksons. But I cannot think of a time where I felt that either E string was too close to the fretboard. I'm not saying that this is BS or anything, just so far I've yet to have this happen. But as I say, I'm interested enough to get the ol' rulers out.


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## ClownShoes (Sep 12, 2022)

jonsick said:


> Hmmm. I cannot say I have ever experienced this first hand or was even aware it was a thing.
> 
> I'm certainly happy to get my rulers out and check out my current crop of Jacksons. But I cannot think of a time where I felt that either E string was too close to the fretboard. I'm not saying that this is BS or anything, just so far I've yet to have this happen. But as I say, I'm interested enough to get the ol' rulers out.


It's only on USA soloists with floyds. Fairly well known issue, not every one has it but a lot are fucked up.






Floyd Rose off center? - JCFonline.com


Discussion about set ups, intonation, trem tips, etc..



www.jcfonline.com









Jackson USA SL2H -- Warranty Claim Log - JCFonline.com


Forum dedicated to the discussion of Jackson U.S.A./Custom Shop Guitars.



www.jcfonline.com












E strings misalignment - Guitar Discussions on theFretBoard


How important is it that both the E strings are the same distance from the edge of the fretboard?




www.thefretboard.co.uk


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## jonsick (Sep 12, 2022)

ClownShoes said:


> It's only on USA soloists with floyds. Fairly well known issue, not every one has it but a lot are fucked up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Blimey. That is pretty bad. But the takeaway I've got from this is it appears to just be soloists and if/when it does come up. Jackson appear to be willing to do what's right?

Of course, it shouldn't leave the factory like that for sure. I guess I'm just glad I've never had that problem come up and say hi to me.


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## eaeolian (Sep 12, 2022)

PromptCritical5 said:


> Someone should make fretwire out of Inconel 718


Titanium, bro. It's the only way to be cool.


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## eaeolian (Sep 12, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Made in America or not, there's just too much wrong with these guitars.
> 
> On another note, am I the only one who feels like Jackson are kind of out of touch with things generally? Like, do they know what they're doing? Do they know who their customers are? Looking at all this marketing, it's just so... "uncool"? I feel like if ESP did this they'd at least make the guitars _seem_ cool.


When I was an endorser in the early 2000s, I begged them to make a USA Soloist 7 string. They said they wouldn't sell based on what happened with the overpriced DR7/RR7/KE7. 7 strings exploded after that, the SLAT3-7 still took 7 years to show up.
It took over 20 years to get a 24 fret RR. I love Randy, too, but there's honoring and there's stupidity.

Fender is, at least, better than AMIC was. But they still lag behind.


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## Flappydoodle (Sep 12, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Has that been reliably confirmed? Where?



Let me be clear about what I mean. I don't think they're secretly outsourcing to China or something. But the guitars do not have "Made in USA" written on there.

What I have seen is people saying that California has strict rules, and because the guitar has parts from Korea, wood from Indonesia etc etc, it can't say "Made in USA". 

Instead these guitars say "Corona, California". Note, it doesn't even say "Made in Corona, California".

Those three words "Made in USA" are very important to some people. The old guitars had it. These don't. That's why I said it's like having an asterisk on it.


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## Flappydoodle (Sep 12, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> I had to google who that is.
> 
> I did see the guitarist from Exmortus (cool band, In Hatred's Flame is very good) talk about these guitars in a video but he sounded like a robot reading from a script.
> 
> I'm wondering, does anybody play these because they like them, or is it because they're getting paid? If it's the latter it somehow doesn't mean as much.



Oh wow. Brandon Ellis is probably THE best modern metal guitarist out there right now. Guy has insane skills, incredible songwriting, and he can blend things together in a way which is original.

Go check out the song "Sunless Empire" if you want an incredible guitar solo.


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## eaeolian (Sep 12, 2022)

jonsick said:


> I have a pretty big familiarity with the six I own. Well five as one is only recently a new addition and I've not messed with it yet. But as I play them all fairly regularly, I can't say that I have.
> 
> I generally do a good amount of work to anything I buy used (and new I guess), making sure frets are level, nice and clean, no previous player gunk, etc.
> 
> ...


Compared to the number they make? Not really. I've played ONE Soloist with this issue in 35 years of playing them.


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## eaeolian (Sep 12, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Oh wow. Brandon Ellis is probably THE best modern metal guitarist out there right now. Guy has insane skills, incredible songwriting, and he can blend things together in a way which is original.
> 
> Go check out the song "Sunless Empire" if you want an incredible guitar solo.


Brandon's awesome, but he's also already an endorser.
Really, if they'd done this without the flippy sharks - and made it offset dots or blank or something - most of the bitching about this would go away. Jackson sells mostly SLs and RRs in the USA line, and there's no HSS Soloist in the MJ line. Fender have, in the past, had zero qualms about country of origin and price slots intermingling as long as they make money.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 12, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Compared to the number they make? Not really. I've played ONE Soloist with this issue in 35 years of playing them.



This. 

I've probably worked on mid triple digits of these and can recall only a few wonky ones.


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## zw470 (Sep 12, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Brandon's awesome, but he's also already an endorser.
> Really, if they'd done this without the flippy sharks - and made it offset dots or blank or something - most of the bitching about this would go away. Jackson sells mostly SLs and RRs in the USA line, and there's no HSS Soloist in the MJ line. Fender have, in the past, had zero qualms about country of origin and price slots intermingling as long as they make money.



No offset dots ever under any circumstance even if the fate of the human race depended on it 

Centered MOP dots, then take all the money they saved doing that and add a MOP logo with neck and headstock binding.


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## ClownShoes (Sep 12, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Let me be clear about what I mean. I don't think they're secretly outsourcing to China or something. But the guitars do not have "Made in USA" written on there.
> 
> What I have seen is people saying that California has strict rules, and because the guitar has parts from Korea, wood from Indonesia etc etc, it can't say "Made in USA".
> 
> ...


This would make a good thread on its own tbh

Music Man now says "California heritage since 1974", as has been mentioned before.


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## drb (Sep 12, 2022)

These look awesome, I even prefer these to the MJ series for most of the specs, I just wish they did one with that sweet, sweet reverse headstock goodness.


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## technomancer (Sep 12, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Let me be clear about what I mean. I don't think they're secretly outsourcing to China or something. But the guitars do not have "Made in USA" written on there.
> 
> What I have seen is people saying that California has strict rules, and because the guitar has parts from Korea, wood from Indonesia etc etc, it can't say "Made in USA".
> 
> ...



Those people should probably get over it as they're not going to see it anymore... for the already stated legal reasons. Unless Gotoh or Schaller open up US factories and somebody figures out how to get ebony, mahogany, and rosewood growing in the US that labeling is going to go away fast. Same thing is happening with amplifiers since virtually nobody in the US makes caps, pots, and tubes anymore.



Flappydoodle said:


> Oh wow. Brandon Ellis is probably THE best modern metal guitarist out there right now. Guy has insane skills, incredible songwriting, and he can blend things together in a way which is original.
> 
> Go check out the song "Sunless Empire" if you want an incredible guitar solo.



Ellis is a complete beast. Love or hate his music his playing is on another level.


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## Agalloch (Sep 12, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Oh wow. Brandon Ellis is probably THE best modern metal guitarist out there right now. Guy has insane skills, incredible songwriting, and he can blend things together in a way which is original.
> 
> Go check out the song "Sunless Empire" if you want an incredible guitar solo.



I wish Jackson would make that 27-fret Kelly they did for him a signature model...


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## eaeolian (Sep 12, 2022)

technomancer said:


> Those people should probably get over it as they're not going to see it anymore... for the already stated legal reasons. Unless Gotoh or Schaller open up US factories and somebody figures out how to get ebony, mahogany, and rosewood growing in the US that labeling is going to go away fast. Same thing is happening with amplifiers since virtually nobody in the US makes caps, pots, and tubes anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> Ellis is a complete beast. Love or hate his music his playing is on another level.


When he auditioned for Arsis he not only learned all the songs, he learned all the solos. Jim Malone was like "fuck yeah, play those, too!"


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## eaeolian (Sep 12, 2022)

Agalloch said:


> I wish Jackson would make that 27-fret Kelly they did for him a signature model...


They would sell so few it's not worth it. It would be the same cost as ordering it from the CS.


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## tedtan (Sep 12, 2022)

jonsick said:


> I have a pretty big familiarity with the six I own. Well five as one is only recently a new addition and I've not messed with it yet. But as I play them all fairly regularly, I can't say that I have.
> 
> I generally do a good amount of work to anything I buy used (and new I guess), making sure frets are level, nice and clean, no previous player gunk, etc.
> 
> ...


I have four USA Jacksons and I haven’t experienced any of the problems people talk about, either.

Aside from that one 23 fret custom shop everyone mentions at every opportunity, the problems with Jackson that people talk about online tend to only exist online.


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## tekbow (Sep 12, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Let me be clear about what I mean. I don't think they're secretly outsourcing to China or something. But the guitars do not have "Made in USA" written on there.
> 
> What I have seen is people saying that California has strict rules, and because the guitar has parts from Korea, wood from Indonesia etc etc, it can't say "Made in USA".
> 
> ...



This is what I've been trying to tell people.

"Made in the USA" has a very specific legal meaning. It seems to be a Federal level thing

Like "Swiss made" or "Made in Switzerland" for Swiss watches.

And as far as I Can see california lessened its restrictions on "made in the USA" in 2015, unless they have since reverted back to their prior definition.

And I haven't actually seen "made in the USA" in any of the marketing except for Andertons in the UK where US restrictions prob wouldn't apply.

I've seen "Made in America", "Built in America" etc etc none of which are protected terms nor have legal obligations attached.

I'm not saying they are, but by way of example, these could be mostly built in the Fender Mexico plant, for example, and have final finishing/QC inspection done in Corona.

In this case "Made in America" would not be inaccurate because Mexico is in North America.

Or finished shaped body/neck assemblies could be sent up for assembly with other parts.

For this case "Built in America" would not be inaccurate because they've been assembled in the US.

People need to start realising that it's not a conspiracy to note that the wording of marketing are details worth paying attention to. 

This whole made vs built vs assembled has been done before.


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## oracles (Sep 12, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Let me be clear about what I mean. I don't think they're secretly outsourcing to China or something. But the guitars do not have "Made in USA" written on there.
> 
> What I have seen is people saying that California has strict rules, and because the guitar has parts from Korea, wood from Indonesia etc etc, it can't say "Made in USA".
> 
> ...


People are going to have to learn to live with it, or buy strictly used going forward. Hardware manufacturers aren't going to set up shop in the states because boomers can't live without their "made in USA" decal, and even if they did, the price would climb so much, they'd just start bitching about how expensive they are. 

If the decal is that much of a deal breaker, either put your own decal on aftermarket, or put your big boy pants on and learn to live with it. 

Alternatively, just admit you weren't going to buy one anyway and/or you were just looking for reasons to complain and say "I'd buy one if X was different..."


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## tekbow (Sep 12, 2022)

oracles said:


> People are going to have to learn to live with it, or buy strictly used going forward. Hardware manufacturers aren't going to set up shop in the states because boomers can't live without their "made in USA" decal, and even if they did, the price would climb so much, they'd just start bitching about how expensive they are.
> 
> If the decal is that much of a deal breaker, either put your own decal on aftermarket, or put your big boy pants on and learn to live with it.
> 
> Alternatively, just admit you weren't going to buy one anyway and/or you were just looking for reasons to complain and say "I'd buy one if X was different..."


The current federal regs permit use of parts that aren't otherwise available in the states and cannot be produced there, for example German made FR would be allowed because in order for it to be built in the USA a company would have to tool up to do it in house, a new company would have to be started, or as you say, Schaller would have to set up a US subsidiary.

I don't know how long the current Federal regs have been in force for, but I think probably long enough to have covered other guitars with German or Japanese made trems In them that also have "made in the USA"

So parts isn't so much the issue as where the Bulk of the "crafting" or manufacture is being performed.


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## tekbow (Sep 12, 2022)

And actually, while we're here, theres been discussion about California's "Made in the USA" regs which were loosened in 2016 to bring them in line with the FTC.

Have they since been made more stringent again?






Made in the USA: In California – Ad Law Defense | Holland & Hart LLP


**California re-casts its labeling standards for “Made in the USA” labels – bringing it closer in line with Federal Trade Commission Regulations and the "V...




adlawdefense.com


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## possumkiller (Sep 12, 2022)

oracles said:


> People are going to have to learn to live with it, or buy strictly used going forward. Hardware manufacturers aren't going to set up shop in the states because boomers can't live without their "made in USA" decal, and even if they did, the price would climb so much, they'd just start bitching about how expensive they are.
> 
> If the decal is that much of a deal breaker, either put your own decal on aftermarket, or put your big boy pants on and learn to live with it.
> 
> Alternatively, just admit you weren't going to buy one anyway and/or you were just looking for reasons to complain and say "I'd buy one if X was different..."


It's not even that I would buy one if xyz was different. I like it just how it is. I would take a blue one in a heartbeat. I just don't have that much coin to drop on guitar stuff anymore. 

My wife loves the blue one as well and agrees that the flipped inlays look better.


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 12, 2022)

ClownShoes said:


> It's only on USA soloists with floyds. Fairly well known issue, not every one has it but a lot are fucked up.



Actually I have it on a top of the line Jackson Stars. Makes me think maybe the body was done in the US and then shipped to Chushin Gakki for finishing or something. I don't know, it's really weird. It was a good deal and I didn't realize at the time that I needed to look for this issue so it is what it is. And I would feel bad trying to sell a guitar like this.


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## eaeolian (Sep 12, 2022)

Dr. Caligari said:


> Actually I have it on a top of the line Jackson Stars. Makes me think maybe the body was done in the US and then shipped to Chushin Gakki for finishing or something. I don't know, it's really weird. It was a good deal and I didn't realize at the time that I needed to look for this issue so it is what it is. And I would feel bad trying to sell a guitar like this.


I vaguely recall this being an issue with some of the Stars line because the CINCs were out of calibration, but don't quote me on it.


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## oremus91 (Sep 12, 2022)

So I kept seeing articles mentioning stainless steel frets, and Alyssa Day mentioned it in her interview with music radar or whatever, so I emailed Jackson... turns out its true. To all the naysayers, these are using SS frets apparently.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 12, 2022)

Well hot damn maybe I'll get one once people start unloading them used.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 12, 2022)

So now that that horse has been beaten and thrown out a window... How's the guitars?


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## technomancer (Sep 12, 2022)

tekbow said:


> And actually, while we're here, theres been discussion about California's "Made in the USA" regs which were loosened in 2016 to bring them in line with the FTC.
> 
> Have they since been made more stringent again?
> 
> ...



This tends to be calculated based on cost of materials, and the cost of the trem, electronics, fretboard, fret wire etc make up more than 5% of the cost of the guitar... and the argument goes that the guitar doesn't REQUIRE a floyd so they could substitute another bridge manufactured in the US. So yes, what you linked prevents the guitar being labeled Made in USA.

For other example see Fender CS and USA guitars and EBMM.

Or they're lying to their dealers and customers. Believe what you want.


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 12, 2022)

tekbow said:


> The current federal regs permit use of parts that aren't otherwise available in the states and cannot be produced there, for example German made FR would be allowed because in order for it to be built in the USA a company would have to tool up to do it in house, a new company would have to be started, or as you say, Schaller would have to set up a US subsidiary.
> 
> I don't know how long the current Federal regs have been in force for, but I think probably long enough to have covered other guitars with German or Japanese made trems In them that also have "made in the USA"
> 
> So parts isn't so much the issue as where the Bulk of the "crafting" or manufacture is being performed.


Is there really not a single Floyd rose built in the states?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 12, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Is there really not a single Floyd rose built in the states?


All the "quality" ones are made in Germany (Schaller) or Japan (Gotoh).
Should do like someone said before and throw a Kahler on these.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 13, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Is there really not a single Floyd rose built in the states?



They haven't been made in the US since Floyd was making them in his garage.

The titanium ones were being made in the US for awhile, at $1500 a pop.

Very little hardware is made in the US, most is done in South Korea (Sung-Il) and China, with some "name brand" lines still being made in Germany or Japan.


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## tekbow (Sep 13, 2022)

technomancer said:


> This tends to be calculated based on cost of materials, and the cost of the trem, electronics, fretboard, fret wire etc make up more than 5% of the cost of the guitar... and the argument goes that the guitar doesn't REQUIRE a floyd so they could substitute another bridge manufactured in the US. So yes, what you linked prevents the guitar being labeled Made in USA.
> 
> For other example see Fender CS and USA guitars and EBMM.
> 
> Or they're lying to their dealers and customers. Believe what you want.



Depends, can be as high as 10% with exception I mentioned.



> The new California law permits products to be labeled as “Made in USA” or similar labelling claims provided that:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Then it's a matter of arguing whether the double locking trem is a part for which no substitutions can be made, because after that, most other cost bearing parts could easily, and in fact examples exist, be made in the USA.

I'm talking tuners, pickups etc etc.

Edit: are Kahlers Actually double locking? Do they lock at the bridge end? Because if not, its rules it out as a US made substitute, and that's without even considering if they're US made.

But that's a matter for Lawyers. I'm pretty sure they could make an argument for the Floyd being unsubstitutible (is that a word?) based on purpose, function, effectiveness and even marketability (not sure that's a word either).

Weird thing is, I recently looked at the cost of the Lockmeister (effectively an OFR without OFR on it), the Gotoh 1996T and the OFR.

I was shocked to say the least.

so depending on wholesale cost of the units vs wholesale cost of the guitar, I'd say there's a fair chance they could satisfy requirements with a Gotoh Or Schaller branded unit.

That's Providing the rest of the guitar could, but I don't think it can.

I'm now off to investigate whether Kahler Are actually MIA.

I've always wanted a Kahler equipped guitar, just to have one.


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## ClownShoes (Sep 13, 2022)

tekbow said:


> And actually, while we're here, theres been discussion about California's "Made in the USA" regs which were loosened in 2016 to bring them in line with the FTC.
> 
> Have they since been made more stringent again?
> 
> ...


It's possible they have been skirting the law up to a point, then the law was enforced against a company which compelled everyone to take it seriously.


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## JimF (Sep 13, 2022)

1)Just thinking about this range, and the potential models to come from it...
Dinky
Rhoads
2 hum Soloist
King V
Any others? Perhaps the Dinky would be the 2 hum model...

2) Does anyone have an idea how popular the fringe models are in the real world? By that I mean the Brandon Ellis Kelly and the Dave Davidson Warrior. Jackson seem to offer a Kelly in every model tier/price range, but as mentioned previously, the Warrior is a bit neglected. I hope what thee previous endorsee mentioned doesn't happen: Where Jackson launch a niche product and price it high to protect their investment, then use the low sales to justify no further steps in that direction.

The tricky thing is the echo chambers we can surround ourselves in with social media etc.
Can I draw the conclusion that the Jackson Warrior is a popular instrument because I keep seeing them all over Instagram & Facebook, or have I just chosen to follow a disproportionate amount of Warrior fans?...


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## jco5055 (Sep 13, 2022)

tekbow said:


> Edit: are Kahlers Actually double locking? Do they lock at the bridge end? Because if not, its rules it out as a US made substitute, and that's without even considering if they're US made.



They are not technically, as they don't lock at the bridge...I know it was a shocker to me (kinda like when I found out high end ESP and Jacksons don't have SS frets 99% of the time) since they are always kinda grouped with Floyd-style trems as they "if you are going extreme whammy here are your two styles to choose from". 

The top line (2200 and 2300 series) are made in the US, while the Hybrid is I believe made in the US w/Chinese materials, or vice versa. I think everyone should at least try a Kahler out, as it's a very smooth feel compared to a Floyd which you will probably love/hate. Also When pulling up, and pushing down for a lot of it, the strings stay at the same height as normal based on the design so that's unique from FR style trems.

I think in 2022 Kahler vs FR-style comes down to 

1) do you want the objectively absolute best tuning stability, regardless of feel/personal preferences? Get a Floyd. 
2) Do you not like the idea of needing to do some regular maintenance aka cleaning/lubricating every 2 months or so? Get a Floyd. 
3) Do you have very specific radius/string spacing/action requirements? Get a Kahler.
4) Do you hate Floyds because you can't palm mute without changing the pitch? Get a Kahler.


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## jco5055 (Sep 13, 2022)

JimF said:


> 1)Just thinking about this range, and the potential models to come from it...
> Dinky
> Rhoads
> 2 hum Soloist
> ...


I hope they'd make a RR24, but for whatever reason I feel like they won't.


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## JimF (Sep 13, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> I hope they'd make a RR24, but for whatever reason I feel like they won't.



With the models and the behind the scenes video pointing towards a "old fashioned style with modern appointments" approach, I doubt that would extend to 24 frets, so I agree.


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## eaeolian (Sep 13, 2022)

JimF said:


> With the models and the behind the scenes video pointing towards a "old fashioned style with modern appointments" approach, I doubt that would extend to 24 frets, so I agree.


I'll bet they do them in 24 so they can use the same neck blanks, and if this is successful I assume a Rhoads from this line is the next obvious choice. They sell more of those than everything else non-Soloist combined, or at least they did last time I asked (2016-ish).


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## jephjacques (Sep 13, 2022)

I'm guessing we'll see a SL2H (SL3H?) before a Rhoads, just because it only requires a different route than the SL3. But if these do well I'm sure they'll expand to other shapes.


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## NCASO96 (Sep 13, 2022)

I didn't have a great experience with my MJ Jackson from last year. I vg guitar, but overpriced.

These look like really great guitars, barring the fact that they can't release these in more exciting finishes?

I like what they did with this video



Still...NOTHING about this guitar warrants $2.6 USD, Despite the great playing by the endorsees.

This guitar would be great @ $1.5-1.7.... but nothing more.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 13, 2022)

A Kelly even without the binding and with those flipped panty sharks, would be an auto purchase for me. In black or in that shade of blue. But of course, I would prefer a one-hum SL1 with a reversed headstock. God, please.


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## mbardu (Sep 13, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> I'm guessing we'll see a SL2H (SL3H?) before a Rhoads, just because it only requires a different route than the SL3. But if these do well I'm sure they'll expand to other shapes.



If they call the H-S-S SL3, then traditionally they'd call the H-H an SL4 (Japan SL3 vs Japan SL4).


----------



## jonsick (Sep 14, 2022)

CapinCripes said:


> So now that that horse has been beaten and thrown out a window... How's the guitars?



Hahaha. Well as one of the few that's picked one up, it's marmite.

If you like everything aesthetically about it and are willing to turn a blind eye to the fact it's a Floyd Rose 1500 series and not an OFR, then you're good to go. 

My down sides were primarily aesthetics and the fact that the neck didn't really feel totally Jackson to me, much more reminiscent of my thin American Fender neck rather than anything Jackson. Though I'm not sure if the second thing is actually a down side. The neck itself plays well, just it isn't my bag. 

As I said in my first big post, I honestly do think you are getting a better deal in a guitar with E-II or Ibanez written on the top of it and given the bullshit I have had with Ibanez models of old, I'm amazed I'm saying that; they have been doing some good work in the £1500-£2000 price bracket recently.

But overall, I couldn't find any flaws with the Jackson, nothing looked badly done, nothing looked as if QC needs a kick up the arse. I just felt these have been spec'd to be as cheap to manufacture as they can get away with and product on shelves. If you like the looks of it, go and a try one out. The quality is there, even if the spec isn't there for me. 

Ultimately I went in with the intention of buying one and didn't. But that was me. You and your credit card may well have a different sort of a day.


----------



## jonsick (Sep 14, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> All the "quality" ones are made in Germany (Schaller) or Japan (Gotoh).
> Should do like someone said before and throw a Kahler on these.


Hah.... would anyone actually buy one if that were the case?

I had one Kahler guitar in my life, the ESP NV Flying V. Great guitar, but I couldn't get on with the Kahler.

As several smarter people than me have said, it depends what you start with. If you started on Kahler, chances are that's what you'll want forever more; if you started on Floyd Rose, that's where you're at. Given when I was learning guitar and buying guitars with wobbly tremolos, Kahler had retired to make golf clubs, I never really got my Kahler chops up to speed.

Given that Kahler still does not really have anything like the market penetration that Floyd Rose and its variants have, I would imagine that any demands for a Kahler tremolo are largely from the "Hurr yer, that would be so cooool" crowd. They're likely the same ones coming up with other mad and out-there specs that would never sell and that they themselves would likely never buy. 

Anyone for a 32-fret Kelly with a Kahler, fanned fretboard, 9 string loaded with single coils and neon light-up fretboard? Made in Indonesia of course.


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## Mathemagician (Sep 14, 2022)

technomancer said:


> It's ss.org, 90% of the posters never actually buy anything over $1k and complain about everything



I buy stuff over $1k. Then just never talk or post about it. Can’t let people think I play guitar. 



NCASO96 said:


> I didn't have a great experience with my MJ Jackson from last year. I vg guitar, but overpriced.
> 
> These look like really great guitars, barring the fact that they can't release these in more exciting finishes?
> 
> ...




Inflation. Jackson hasn’t charged ~$2k for USA in like a decade. Fuck I’m old.


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## possumkiller (Sep 14, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> These look like really great guitars, barring the fact that they can't release these in more exciting finishes?


Ikr. If I can get a poplar burl top with a nice green and blue dragon burst on a $500 Ibanez, why can't I have it on a $2500 USA Jackson?


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## Halffarmer (Sep 14, 2022)

oremus91 said:


> So I kept seeing articles mentioning stainless steel frets, and Alyssa Day mentioned it in her interview with music radar or whatever, so I emailed Jackson... turns out its true. To all the naysayers, these are using SS frets apparently.


Interesting, in the video i posted, one of the Jackson guys said they are nickel. (John Romanowski, Vice president of category management, whatever that means.)
Don't know whom to believe anymore, especially since i feel they'd boast about the guitars having SS frets. 
Fender even made a special line, the ultra luxe, with allmost no differences to the ultra, other than SS frets.

I don't have a guitar with steel frets, so it wouldn't be a dealbreaker, more a nice to have but i don't understand why they won't be clear about that, the website just says " jumbo frets".


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## JimF (Sep 14, 2022)

jonsick said:


> Anyone for a 32-fret Kelly with a Kahler, fanned fretboard, 9 string loaded with single coils


@Winspear has entered the chat


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## eaeolian (Sep 14, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> I didn't have a great experience with my MJ Jackson from last year. I vg guitar, but overpriced.
> 
> These look like really great guitars, barring the fact that they can't release these in more exciting finishes?
> 
> ...



A Corona-made Strat (which is much cheaper to make) is $1399, true, but they sell about 20x more of those, so some of this is simply margin math. I agree that $2.6K for a basic guitar seems insane, but that's where we are now, market-wise.


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## jco5055 (Sep 14, 2022)

yeah maybe I'm wrong, but if we are talking American made (let's not get into the specifics of what that means on my post haha), surely it's virtually impossible to get it below $2k in these times? Heck for fun I built a Kiesel Ultra V in their builder, and kept it as minimally specc'd as I could besides dealbreakers I'd need like Jumbo SS frets and a Floyd, and it still came out to almost $3k...and I was under the impression without fancy finishes or woods a Kiesel was guaranteed to be around $2k or so.


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## Flappydoodle (Sep 14, 2022)

oracles said:


> People are going to have to learn to live with it, or buy strictly used going forward. Hardware manufacturers aren't going to set up shop in the states because boomers can't live without their "made in USA" decal, and even if they did, the price would climb so much, they'd just start bitching about how expensive they are.
> 
> If the decal is that much of a deal breaker, either put your own decal on aftermarket, or put your big boy pants on and learn to live with it.
> 
> Alternatively, just admit you weren't going to buy one anyway and/or you were just looking for reasons to complain and say "I'd buy one if X was different..."



Kinda weird that you went for personal attacks so quickly... 

I didn't say that I wouldn't buy this guitar because it's not made in the USA. I'm just pointing out that the whole "American series" has a big fat asterisk and some small print attached. If the guitar had the "Made in USA" stamp, there would be no debate whatsoever. Point is, the marketing terminology and the actual legal wording are important and it's not conspiracy theory to see this basic information. 

And is it true that the price would climb a lot? I honestly don't know. Here's a Gibson LP standard (same price as these Jacksons) where the back of headstock clearly says "Made in USA". https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Electric-Guitar/USAUBC849/Heritage-Cherry-Sunburst

I checked and the "Fender American Professional" Strat also simply says "Corona, California". Even the "Deluxe" series, which costs mow. So it looks like it's a Fender/Jackson thing, because Gibson apparently can be "Made in USA" while Fender are avoiding it or can't legally say it.

And FYI, I wouldn't buy this guitar because I hate middle pickups. My pick will bump into it constantly. If they release a HH guitar from this series, I would definitely consider it. It could go nicely with my several Japanese ESPs, Caparisons... the money isn't a problem and I don't need to fabricate excuses not to buy something


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 14, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> Kinda weird that you went for personal attacks so quickly...
> 
> I didn't say that I wouldn't buy this guitar because it's not made in the USA. I'm just pointing out that the whole "American series" has a big fat asterisk and some small print attached. If the guitar had the "Made in USA" stamp, there would be no debate whatsoever. Point is, the marketing terminology and the actual legal wording are important and it's not conspiracy theory to see this basic information.
> 
> ...



Gibsons are made in Tennessee and Montana, not California, which has state law that prescribes what "Made in the USA" means, which is why manufacturers in Cali have been moving away from the particular wording, EBMM for example. 

Sugi built Ibanez guitars often just say "Custom Shop Japan." Is there an asterisk there? Same with ESP not saying "Made in Japan" on a ton of Standards.


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## Stiman (Sep 14, 2022)

Name a lower value (what you get for what you pay) guitar, I’m curious if you can come up with anything lol.

I’m only half joking. I can’t help but think of my 2007 MIJ DK2M with very similar specs that I paid $550 CAD for, brand new. Nearly 1/6th the price of these. Yes inflation… but still.

Edit: which had neck and headstock binding btw!! I only bring this up because apparently binding is labour intensive and should effect the price.

Edit 2: which I regrettably sold


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## possumkiller (Sep 14, 2022)

Stiman said:


> Name a lower value (what you get for what you pay) guitar, I’m curious if you can come up with anything lol.
> 
> I’m only half joking. I can’t help but think of my 2007 MIJ DK2M with very similar specs that I paid $550 CAD for, brand new. Nearly 1/6th the price of these. Yes inflation… but still.
> 
> ...


Blackmachine


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## NCASO96 (Sep 14, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> Ikr. If I can get a poplar burl top with a nice green and blue dragon burst on a $500 Ibanez, why can't I have it on a $2500 USA Jackson?


I was thinking more along the lines of metallics, or maybe even some fades/gradations. A little creativity beyond the black, white, blue, and green that they've trotted out for the past
how many years?


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## jephjacques (Sep 14, 2022)

jonsick said:


> Anyone for a 32-fret Kelly with a Kahler, fanned fretboard, 9 string loaded with single coils and neon light-up fretboard? Made in Indonesia of course.


And it has to cost under $1000 and it BETTER HAVE STAINLESS STEEL FRETS


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## eaeolian (Sep 14, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> And it has to cost under $1000 and it BETTER HAVE STAINLESS STEEL FRETS


You truly have your finger on the pulse of this place.


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## Sir_Shreddington (Sep 14, 2022)

I'd really like to try one of these out, but they are honestly a bit on the pricey side. My made in Mexico Charvel dk24 rips, is super easy to play, and was a 3rd of the price. 

I get the current economics behind the consumer cost and everything, but the price tag still stings a bit. 

Oh well, maybe I'm just getting old and cranky at the cost of everything.


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## Stiman (Sep 14, 2022)

Sir_Shreddington said:


> My made in Mexico Charvel dk24



I have one of these as well. Huge value for the money. I love mine.


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## CapinCripes (Sep 14, 2022)

Can't help but think between the fairly limited mj line and a single American series model that overlaps price and spec wise with the mjs that fender is putting out a lot of feelers to see where they are going with jackson.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 14, 2022)

CapinCripes said:


> Can't help but think between the fairly limited mj line and a single American series model that fender is putting out a lot of feelers to see where they are going with jackson.



They're just applying their existing strategies to Jackson. It's not really a "see what sticks" kind of thing, pretty much everything is a known unknown.

These large companies have entire departments and various consultants and research firms that help guide these sorts of decisions. 

Jackson is a legacy brand, just like Gibson and Fender themselves, the clientele is predominantly older, and cares just as much about the "story" and provenance of the product as things like raw specs or perceived quality. 

They know that prototypical Jackson buyer wants a solid color Soloist that's made in America. Everything else is pretty much secondary.


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## NCASO96 (Sep 14, 2022)

Stiman said:


> I have one of these as well. Huge value for the money. I love mine.


i've always wanted the Gus G San Dimas. The Blackfire pickups are really awesome


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## NCASO96 (Sep 14, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> They're just applying their existing strategies to Jackson. It's not really a "see what sticks" kind of thing, pretty much everything is a known unknown.
> 
> These large companies have entire departments and various consultants and research firms that help guide these sorts of decisions.
> 
> ...


I agree with what you're saying, and it's exactly what they're doing... But this isn't the 80s anymore. 

I'm a part of that "older clientele" , I appreciate the "story" and the "legacy" but... I can also tell the difference between value for my $ and regurgitated marketing blather.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 14, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> I agree with what you're saying, and it's exactly what they're doing... But this isn't the 80s anymore.
> 
> I'm a part of that "older clientele" , I appreciate the "story" and the "legacy" but... I can also tell the difference between value for my $ and regurgitated marketing blather.



Yeah, but you're on an enthusiast forum, that's like 1% of the market. Most aren't looking for "value" in their $2k+ luxury item purchase.

Everyone keeps bringing up "value" like these are $4k and it's 2001 again. These are the cheapest USA Soloists in almost a decade (2012/2013 you could still get an SL1 for ~$2500, prior to the discontinuation of the production models and the move to the Custom Selects). The closest competition are Japanese made guitars that you can't even really buy right now. Sure, plenty of Korean and Indonesian and Mexican and Chinese guitars for less, but for the audience these are aimed at, it's "USA or bust!"

If you don't care that they're made in the USA or that they're Jacksons, you're not who they're selling these to.


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## mbardu (Sep 14, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> yeah maybe I'm wrong, but if we are talking American made (let's not get into the specifics of what that means on my post haha), surely it's virtually impossible to get it below $2k in these times? Heck for fun I built a Kiesel Ultra V in their builder, and kept it as minimally specc'd as I could besides dealbreakers I'd need like Jumbo SS frets and a Floyd, and it still came out to almost $3k...and I was under the impression without fancy finishes or woods a Kiesel was guaranteed to be around $2k or so.



3k$ is a bit of an exaggeration, bu that said I'm pretty shocked that the model starts at 2k$ now. Wow. 

Those were sub-1k not too long ago...


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## NCASO96 (Sep 14, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, but you're on an enthusiast forum, that's like 1% of the market. Most aren't looking for "value" in their $2k+ luxury item purchase.
> 
> Everyone keeps bringing up "value" like these are $4k and it's 2001 again. These are the cheapest USA Soloists in almost a decade (2012/2013 you could still get an SL1 for ~$2500, prior to the discontinuation of the production models and the move to the Custom Selects). The closest competition are Japanese made guitars that you can't even really buy right now. Sure, plenty of Korean and Indonesian and Mexican and Chinese guitars for less, but for the audience these are aimed at, it's "USA or bust!"
> 
> If you don't care that they're made in the USA or that they're Jacksons, you're not who they're selling these to.


I agree with what you're saying here. you're right in all respects... In the last 3-5 years I've been buying/selling a lot of guitars, so I've been trying to understand
the rationale behind the price points in the major brands.

The idea behind the new Soloist was:
Let's sell them on the history of the US custom shop and the fact that they can now buy a US production line Jackson for half that price.

Jackson has enough lower tiered product lines, to entice the Saturday crowd at GC. These guitars are being marketed towards the more serious player @ $2.6k. I would think this demographic would want more than the nostalgic feeling of buying a guitar, you couldn't afford when you were younger.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 14, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> I agree with what you're saying here. you're right in all respects... In the last 3-5 years I've been buying/selling a lot of guitars, so I've been trying to understand
> the rationale behind the price points in the major brands.
> 
> The idea behind the new Soloist was:
> ...



I doubt these are being marketed to the "serious player", they're being marketed to the person who wants a USA Jackson, but doesn't want to wait for a custom shop build, and wouldn't even know what they'd spec out anyway. 

The pricing is pretty much inline with the MJ Soloist, but those aren't USA Jacksons.


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## NCASO96 (Sep 14, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I doubt these are being marketed to the "serious player", they're being marketed to the person who wants a USA Jackson, but doesn't want to wait for a custom shop build, and wouldn't even know what they'd spec out anyway.
> 
> The pricing is pretty much inline with the MJ Soloist, but those aren't USA Jacksons.



So... spending upwards of $2-2.6k on a new guitar DOESNT mean you're getting a professional-grade instrument?

Casual guitarists drop $2k + on luxury guitar purchases? 

Getting a US built Soloist at half price sounds great, but in the end it's still a production line guitar. In the video I posted, they point to a 
"Dedicated team" solely for this product line. That can mean little more than a group of experienced US builders picked for this limited run.


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## xzacx (Sep 14, 2022)

This isn't even the first time Jackson has done a less expensive USA line. The SL2 and DR2 from the mid-late '90s had no binding, blank boards, and JT-580s. These actually look more premium than those did—they were really nice too. 

And I'm still waiting for someone list all the other brands selling USA-made guitars (that actually look good) with OFRs/binding/hardshells for less than this.


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## eaeolian (Sep 14, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> So... spending upwards of $2-2.6k on a new guitar DOESNT mean you're getting a professional-grade instrument?
> 
> Casual guitarists drop $2k + on luxury guitar purchases?
> 
> ...


How many "professional guitarists" do you think there are? Mostly high-end guitars are luxury purchases. I need two good guitars - I have 8. 

The dedicated team, in this case, does the stuff the robots can't in the highly-automated line they built just to build these guitars. This is actually as big of a deal as Peavey making guitars with CINC in the '80s, because it's not the usual way things are done in the guitar world.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 14, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> So... spending upwards of $2-2.6k on a new guitar DOESNT mean you're getting a professional-grade instrument?



I never said that. 

I mean that just because you're spending a certain amount definitely doesn't correlate with the skill level or playing frequency of the player. 



NCASO96 said:


> Casual guitarists drop $2k + on luxury guitar purchases?



Yeah, quite frequently. Most guitarists are "casual" players, then you have some weekend warriors, but the greater majority are just occasional bedroom players, and those folks tend to spend absolute stupid money on guitars and amps. 

Just like not every person with a fast car is a racecar driver. 



NCASO96 said:


> Getting a US built Soloist at half price sounds great, but in the end it's still a production line guitar. In the video I posted, they point to a
> "Dedicated team" solely for this product line. That can mean little more than a group of experienced US builders picked for this limited run.



Which is how you describe just about any guitar production line when you think about it. I don't see how that detracts from the product.


----------



## jco5055 (Sep 14, 2022)

mbardu said:


> 3k$ is a bit of an exaggeration, bu that said I'm pretty shocked that the model starts at 2k$ now. Wow.
> 
> Those were sub-1k not too long ago...



well I was just stating what it was verbatim, it's like $2729 exactly...in my mind that kinda defeats the purpose of what a Kiesel is supposed to be to me, which is overall the best bang for your buck if you don't go fancy with the woods/finishes and want US made semi-custom.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 14, 2022)

jco5055 said:


> well I was just stating what it was verbatim, it's like $2729 exactly...in my mind that kinda defeats the purpose of what a Kiesel is supposed to be to me, which is overall the best bang for your buck if you don't go fancy with the woods/finishes and want US made semi-custom.



That's still amazingly cheap for what it is. 

An ESP USA V2 is like twice as much, and still a 1/3rd more prior to price hikes this year.


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## jco5055 (Sep 14, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's still amazingly cheap for what it is.
> 
> An ESP USA V2 is like twice as much, and still a 1/3rd more prior to price hikes this year.



I think I sadly still unconsciously view ~$3k or so as "you can find new 'top tier'/'professional' range guitars at this price" where it seems like I should adjust it to be about $1k higher at least.


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 14, 2022)

All four colours arrived at my store today and we put them all out on display.

They fuckin rule man! in contrast in Canada, the Select SL1 is priced at $5600, and this is $3300.

I believe I like the process for how they make the neck on this a little better. All of the ones we got in play great!

MY only, and I mean only gripe? I would have started the series with the SL2H instead. I sell more guitars with two humbuckers here.

I can only hope they expand the line to include that version and perhaps the V and the RR as well. 

We shall see.


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## mastapimp (Sep 14, 2022)

xzacx said:


> And I'm still waiting for someone list all the other brands selling USA-made guitars (that actually look good) with OFRs/binding/hardshells for less than this.


I have a feeling those complaining about the price of these are the same folks shouting "I'll never pay $1,400 for an Indo" or "$2,000 for a Korean guitar is madness"


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## mastapimp (Sep 14, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> Casual guitarists drop $2k + on luxury guitar purchases?


All day long. Most of the people that post on his forum have a family, or a day job, or are in school, or any combination of those things that make guitar playing secondary. I hardly find the time to play like I used to, but I will still buy a new guitar if it appeals to me, even in the $5K range.


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## Stiman (Sep 14, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> I have a feeling those complaining about the price of these are the same folks shouting "I'll never pay $1,400 for an Indo" or "$2,000 for a Korean guitar is madness"



As a complainer of the price, I am not the kind that you describe here. My issue is that I see value as the most important criteria and that's why I find these so offensive. But clearly, as @MaxOfMetal pointed out, people buying these are not in it for value. It hurts my brain, and I should probably just unsub from this thread...


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## mastapimp (Sep 14, 2022)

Stiman said:


> As a complainer of the price, I am not the kind that you describe here. My issue is that I see value as the most important criteria and that's why I find these so offensive. But clearly, as @MaxOfMetal pointed out, people buying these are not in it for value. It hurts my brain, and I should probably just unsub from this thread...


Compared to the USA select/custom line, it does hold value to those prospective Jackson buyers.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 14, 2022)

I'm still shocked people are kicking and screaming about guitar prices in 2022. You were there for 2020 and 2021, you know about the price increases and you know what the average price for guitar ranges are these days. It isn't a decade ago, even if you want it to be. Honestly guitars were due for a massive price adjustment considering they were pretty much stagnant 2008-2018. It sucks that it happened all at once, but if you don't like it buy used.


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## NCASO96 (Sep 14, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I never said that.
> 
> I mean that just because you're spending a certain amount definitely doesn't correlate with the skill level or playing frequency of the player.
> 
> ...



You had said earlier that you didn't think Jackson was marketing these guitars towards "serious" players. 
This may be true, but they have several lower tiered product lines to fit that crowd. At a $2.5k price range, I would say 
that, that kind of purchase is geared towards someone who wants a next level guitar with premium features and superior build quality.

All i see with this new launch is nostalgia and a "made in merica" vibe. Same boring colors, rehashed marketing write-ups "blazing fast neck" "maximum stability"...

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I appreciate the dialogue. Just sharing my thoughts.


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## NCASO96 (Sep 14, 2022)

Stiman said:


> As a complainer of the price, I am not the kind that you describe here. My issue is that I see value as the most important criteria and that's why I find these so offensive. But clearly, as @MaxOfMetal pointed out, people buying these are not in it for value. It hurts my brain, and I should probably just unsub from this thread...


I think i'm right there with you. my top budget has always been in the $2-3k range and I'm always comparing $ to see what guitar really deserves that.

I'm finding myself more partial to the MIM Charvel, and LTDs. Even the Jackson Pro.

All foreign made.


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## zw470 (Sep 14, 2022)

Stiman said:


> As a complainer of the price, I am not the kind that you describe here. My issue is that I see value as the most important criteria and that's why I find these so offensive. But clearly, as @MaxOfMetal pointed out, people buying these are not in it for value. It hurts my brain, and I should probably just unsub from this thread...



Value-shmalue, I just think they're ugly


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## possumkiller (Sep 14, 2022)

PromptCritical5 said:


> Value-shmalue, I just think they're ugly


Is that a truckster in your avatar?


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## zw470 (Sep 14, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> Is that a truckster in your avatar?



Yeah but those were ugly on purpose, which makes them cool.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 14, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> I'm finding myself more partial to the MIM Charvel, and LTDs. Even the Jackson Pro.
> 
> All foreign made.



The Korean Jackson Concept and Wild Card series are very well-made. They have more adventurous specs, as well, and feature German floyds. They are just a Mother of Pearl inlay away from the American Series.


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## Dooky (Sep 14, 2022)

technomancer said:


> I have never gotten the obsession of some guys on here with this. Don't get me wrong, if I am building something or ordering a custom I'll usually go with SS frets, but it has never been a deal breaker. Potentially having to refret something in 20 years is REALLY not a huge deal...
> 
> Honestly the only spec on these that is annoying are the upside down sharkfins


Stainless steel frets are just another thing for elitist guitarists, who spend more time researching specs and writing about them on the internetz; than actually playing the guitar, to complain about. 
Some people will say that they can feel a difference when doing bends, but I suspect those people have terrible technique and are pushing way too hard into the fret.


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 14, 2022)

No SS frets have been confirmed Since there seemed to be a few people not sure?


----------



## Vyn (Sep 15, 2022)

Dooky said:


> Stainless steel frets are just another thing for elitist guitarists, who spend more time researching specs and writing about them on the internetz; than actually playing the guitar, to complain about.
> Some people will say that they can feel a difference when doing bends, but I suspect those people have terrible technique and are pushing way too hard into the fret.



Also if you happen to be an active gigging/touring musician, chances are your instrument will be destroyed in transit or from on stage shenanigans before it needs a re-fret anyway. 

I know some people use the "But you never have to polish SS frets" argument from time to time however that's such a minor benefit. Polishing takes 9/10ths of fuck all in terms of time to actually do.

Tl;DR - Nickel frets are fine.


----------



## trem licking (Sep 15, 2022)

Vyn said:


> Also if you happen to be an active gigging/touring musician, chances are your instrument will be destroyed in transit or from on stage shenanigans before it needs a re-fret anyway.
> 
> I know some people use the "But you never have to polish SS frets" argument from time to time however that's such a minor benefit. Polishing takes 9/10ths of fuck all in terms of time to actually do.
> 
> Tl;DR - Nickel frets are fine.


the less maintenance required, the better. it's marginally more cost to install them, and they are installed once and never bothered with again. team SS


----------



## DiezelMonster (Sep 15, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> I'm still shocked people are kicking and screaming about guitar prices in 2022. You were there for 2020 and 2021, you know about the price increases and you know what the average price for guitar ranges are these days. It isn't a decade ago, even if you want it to be. Honestly guitars were due for a massive price adjustment considering they were pretty much stagnant 2008-2018. It sucks that it happened all at once, but if you don't like it buy used.


As someone who works in retail musical instrument sales, the only people complaining are the people on these forums. This place specifically has a hilarious opinion on a lot of topics that are very focused. This topic being one of them. The customers we see don't seem to have a problem with pricing.


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## JimF (Sep 15, 2022)

I suppose the people in your store are there in the position to purchase, whereas we're just "discussing" it all. The people in your store are already qualified leads so to speak.
But, SSO gonna SSO


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## Stiman (Sep 15, 2022)

Meh, we’re all still real people, making purchasing decisions too.


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## ClownShoes (Sep 15, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> I'm still shocked people are kicking and screaming about guitar prices in 2022. You were there for 2020 and 2021, you know about the price increases and you know what the average price for guitar ranges are these days. It isn't a decade ago, even if you want it to be. Honestly guitars were due for a massive price adjustment considering they were pretty much stagnant 2008-2018. It sucks that it happened all at once, but if you don't like it buy used.


Because inflation is still above 8% in the US, and around that or higher in other countries.

And I guarantee you, people will not be spending so flippantly as people suggest once interest rates start to really bite. The Fed is willing to risk a recession in order to get inflation under control.

The era of cheap credit is over.


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## NCASO96 (Sep 15, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> As someone who works in retail musical instrument sales, the only people complaining are the people on these forums. This place specifically has a hilarious opinion on a lot of topics that are very focused. This topic being one of them. The customers we see don't seem to have a problem with pricing.


As a fan of Jackson guitars, I like these models, but believe they are a bit overpriced relative to some other brands (ESP) at this price point.

Its been pointed out by some that you're paying for mostly for "privilege" of owning an affordable US made Soloist. I get it.

I've bought and sold many guitars over the past 3 years, and I'm just not that impressed by what Jackson is doing here with lineup at that price.

I have been in the position to spend up to $3 3.5k. I do research and compare notes with other knowledgeable people on this forum.

Its not just empty complaining, so don't broad brush everyone who posts here with some who complain for no reason.


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## oremus91 (Sep 15, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> No SS frets have been confirmed Since there seemed to be a few people not sure?








Jackson American Series


Oh wow. Brandon Ellis is probably THE best modern metal guitarist out there right now. Guy has insane skills, incredible songwriting, and he can blend things together in a way which is original. Go check out the song "Sunless Empire" if you want an incredible guitar solo. I wish Jackson would...




www.sevenstring.org


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## marke (Sep 15, 2022)

In Europe (Thomann for reference) these Jacksons are not that bad price wise. Ibanez offers more value, but for sure ESP (E-II) prices are getting out of hand. Non-boring Horizon colors with a Floyd are nearing 3k. For sure some solid color M2s, which are perhaps a better comparison, have pricing closer to 2k, but it's only comparable - not better..

..Not to mention they're still just E-II. The logo IS a big deal. Not for me, but for perceived value. I'm guessing a lot of people place USA Jackson higher in desirability and brand value than an E-II, no matter how basic the actual guitar is. For the player that is a secondary issue, but these are quite expensive guitars so many things can end up mattering when deciding on the investment.


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 15, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> As a fan of Jackson guitars, I like these models, but believe they are a bit overpriced relative to some other brands (ESP) at this price point.
> 
> Its been pointed out by some that you're paying for mostly for "privilege" of owning an affordable US made Soloist. I get it.
> 
> ...


Okay, so vote with your wallet and don't buy it.

These companies can't please all the people all the time. This is precisely why the Custom shop and further, the Custom select line exists. As I stated above, You can get a black Jackson Select SL1 for $5749.99 or or this Black SL3 for $3329, I'm not sure what else to tell you man. 
Have you PLAYED this guitar yet? Maybe say that before you decide? 
I've worked here for 20 years and have owned multiple USA Jacksons and I can tell you I'd take this for $3300 any day over $5800 for what? binding? a hard case? a hidden scarf joint? a german made OFR?

You do you man.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 15, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> Okay, so vote with your wallet and don't buy it.
> 
> These companies can't please all the people all the time. This is precisely why the Custom shop and further, the Custom select line exists. As I stated above, You can get a black Jackson Select SL1 for $5749.99 or or this Black SL3 for $3329, I'm not sure what else to tell you man.
> Have you PLAYED this guitar yet? Maybe say that before you decide?
> ...


 Lol'd at the hidden scarf joint. This is why I like my "Quartersawn" Jackson neck PAINTED! So, the Ibanez guys with 9-piece necks won't laugh at me.


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## Stiman (Sep 15, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Lol'd at the hidden scarf joint. This is why I like my "Quartersawn" Jackson neck PAINTED! So, the Ibanez guys with 9-piece necks won't laugh at me.



Yeah, but at least Jackson gives you colour options. Have you seen the colour options for Prestige RGs lately? Terrible. And I say this as an Ibanez fanboi


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## NCASO96 (Sep 15, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> Okay, so vote with your wallet and don't buy it.
> 
> These companies can't please all the people all the time. This is precisely why the Custom shop and further, the Custom select line exists. As I stated above, You can get a black Jackson Select SL1 for $5749.99 or or this Black SL3 for $3329, I'm not sure what else to tell you man.
> Have you PLAYED this guitar yet? Maybe say that before you decide?
> ...


I have your permission? Great. This is a discussion board.... Guitars/Guitar brands are open for objective discussion... right?

Some people don't believe this is a great value (there's that word again) at this price point for a production guitar, regardless to being US made.
There is nothing unique about the feature set, build quality, etc. that warrants this $ price tag.


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## tedtan (Sep 15, 2022)

If bang for the buck is the criteria, US made instruments aren‘t where you should be looking.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 15, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> There is nothing unique about the feature set, build quality, etc. that warrants this $ price tag.


You are wrong about this. It's a guitar that says Jackson on the headstock, made in USA, at 2500. You could probably walk out of GC with it for 22-2300. If you aren't an internet speclord and instead are just someone who walks into a guitar store and picks them up you'll go "holy shit a USA Jackson for 2500 bucks". That's who they're selling to.

Try selling someone who buys USA guitars an LTD or Schecter because it has a better value for money. They'll laugh at you.


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## NCASO96 (Sep 15, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> You are wrong about this. It's a guitar that says Jackson on the headstock, made in USA, at 2500. You could probably walk out of GC with it for 22-2300. If you aren't an internet speclord and instead are just someone who walks into a guitar store and picks them up you'll go "holy shit a USA Jackson for 2500 bucks". That's who they're selling to.
> 
> Try selling someone who buys USA guitars an LTD or Schecter because it has a better value for money. They'll laugh at you.


 
It says Jackson on the headstock, made in USA @ $2.5k . woah that sold me.

Internet speclord? or someone who has a clue what kind of guitar they're buying?


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## xzacx (Sep 15, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> Some people don't believe this is a great value (there's that word again) at this price point for a production guitar, regardless to being US made.
> There is nothing unique about the feature set, build quality, etc. that warrants this $ price tag.


Who sells something with this feature set and build quality that's made in the US at this price point? That in itself seems to be fairly unique.


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 15, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> I have your permission? Great. This is a discussion board.... Guitars/Guitar brands are open for objective discussion... right?
> 
> Some people don't believe this is a great value (there's that word again) at this price point for a production guitar, regardless to being US made.
> There is nothing unique about the feature set, build quality, etc. that warrants this $ price tag.


Yes this is a "discussion" board. Thanka for pointing that out to me. I hadn't noticed. Usually when people want to discuss it's because they have an objective opinion based on experience. 

Have you put your hands on one of these guitars yet? You know, to have an objective opinion? Or are you just parroting other BS you have read from all your internet hype lords?

Like I already said, vote with your wallet. If these prices and specs piss you off enough then move on and play your guitar. 

The world is a different place, things cost more money. Are you having the same discussions on beef or chicken or produce forums? Are you upset on the hogcorpse "discussion" boards? Unless you've had your head firmly stuck in the sand everything is more expensive and sadly it's going to get worse before it gets better (never).

My prediction is, if these sell well, Jackson as a separate brand under the Fender name will cease to exist. Those guys CAN'T produce their product fast enough for consumption. Fender will most likely strip down the "custom shop" and move all their production to Corona eventually. Just a prediction. Either way for this feature set and this price point its awfully tempting to the people looking to get into USA Jackson but don't want to pay the current "custom shop" price. 

But yes, you do have my permission. Go play one. Pretty please?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> My prediction is, if these sell well, Jackson as a separate brand under the Fender name will cease to exist. Those guys CAN'T produce their product fast enough for consumption. Fender will most likely strip down the "custom shop" and move all their production to Corona eventually. Just a prediction. Either way for this feature set and this price point its awfully tempting to the people looking to get into USA Jackson but don't want to pay the current "custom shop" price.



Lol wut

Why would they shutter a shop that's literally printing money? They're up to their eyeballs in $4k+ orders. There is talk of another price increase, because even at almost $5k they're still getting tons of orders. The margins are insane.


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## mmr007 (Sep 16, 2022)

Jackson as a guitar company is a failure when it comes to marketing research.

They released these guitars, none of which are the the exact specs I am looking for in a guitar. I blame their marketing research.

They released these guitars at a price point higher than what I want to pay. They could have had my money but since these guitars only have enough options to allow them to make a profit and not enough to make me feel like I won, they get nothing. I blame their marketing research.

They proudly announced these as a USA line of guitars while ignoring the fact that there are other guitars out there from Indonesia that have guitarish stuff on them I like. Guitar companies are struggling to move SKU's, the guitar market is failing. The only way to survive as evidence has shown is to release guitars with more features at a lower price and with more color availability than any other guitar that has previously been released. Only an idiot of a company would release a blue Jackson soloist without SS frets when I could get a pink Squire strat with SS frets. (Kindly ignore they are the same company or this argument doesn't work) I blame their marketing research

BTW....is there some documentation to support that SS frets are THAT important to guitarists these days? I know they are durable and you'll never need a re-fret but I don't hear about big name guitarists using them and since it seems like most guitarists/hobbyists these days own 10 or more guitars they have to choose from....realistically you will need new teeth before you need new frets in any single given guitar


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 16, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Lol wut
> 
> Why would they shutter a shop that's literally printing money? They're up to their eyeballs in $4k+ orders. There is talk of another price increase, because even at almost $5k they're still getting tons of orders. The margins are insane.


I didn't say they would "shutter" it. 

I said I predict they would move the "select" line to corona and they would be the USA line. And the custom shop would just keep making the cock dragons. Sorry I should have been more specific. 

I can't currently order any USA select without a possible 24 month lead time. I can't imagine there are many sitting on the shelves in GC. I could be wrong as I haven't done the research. 

Mike Shannon is probably set to retire soon and that will probably also have an impact. 

Just all predictions. I don't have any inside info.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I didn't say they would "shutter" it.
> 
> I said I predict they would move the "select" line to corona and they would be the USA line. And the custom shop would just keep making the cock dragons. Sorry I should have been more specific.
> 
> ...



But why?

Where is the financial interest in discontinuing what has likely been the most profitable sales model in Jackson history? 

The Fender production lines can barely keep up making Fenders, and they're not going to see profits from the changes made to make the American series Jacksons for years. 

Until folks stop putting in Custom Select orders the prices are going to continue to rise and the profits with them, year+ wait times be damned. 

It's like if PRS said they're closing the PS shop so they can make more CEs.


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## Dooky (Sep 16, 2022)

Vyn said:


> Also if you happen to be an active gigging/touring musician, chances are your instrument will be destroyed in transit or from on stage shenanigans before it needs a re-fret anyway.
> 
> I know some people use the "But you never have to polish SS frets" argument from time to time however that's such a minor benefit. Polishing takes 9/10ths of fuck all in terms of time to actually do.
> 
> Tl;DR - Nickel frets are fine.


Very true. My brother gigged with the same guitar for a solid 10 years (multiple gigs a week). Whilst the frets did show signs of heavy wear, it was other things that wore out far worse. That thing was literally about to crumble to pieces


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## Dooky (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> As someone who works in retail musical instrument sales, the only people complaining are the people on these forums. This place specifically has a hilarious opinion on a lot of topics that are very focused. This topic being one of them. The customers we see don't seem to have a problem with pricing.


But, but... the sharkfin inlay are upside-down!...


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## possumkiller (Sep 16, 2022)

Dooky said:


> But, but... the sharkfin inlay are upside-down!...


Aren't you from Australia? That shouldn't be a problem should it?


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 16, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> But why?
> 
> Where is the financial interest in discontinuing what has likely been the most profitable sales model in Jackson history?
> 
> ...


What I'm saying though, are they even "cranking" out USA selects? Those were supposed to be the "stock" model that was on the store shelf to represent the USA Jackson line and I haven't had one in stock for 3 years. When I used to have 1 of every model.

I'll wait and see I guess.


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## eaeolian (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> What I'm saying though, are they even "cranking" out USA selects? Those were supposed to be the "stock" model that was on the store shelf to represent the USA Jackson line and I haven't had one in stock for 3 years. When I used to have 1 of every model.
> 
> I'll wait and see I guess.


Because they're ridiculously backlogged - they basically made everything a Custom Shop again, which is cool and all, but makes production a tad difficult.


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 16, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Because they're ridiculously backlogged - they basically made everything a Custom Shop again, which is cool and all, but makes production a tad difficult.


I understand that, and that is why I feel they made this push to take the "select" line away from the custom shop so they will just be the "standard" line now and as I said above, the custom shop can go back to being a custom shop.

I know Jackson hasn't said anything about it and it's purely speculation on my part, but when you are backed up that badly you can't SELL guitars, not to mention the orders they take are typically not paid in full anyhow until the guitar is finished at least that is how our ordering system for selects work.

Either way, These guitars kick ass and I'm glad they made this step. For me the quality is there compared to the SL2H I have and the other USA selects I've owned and played over the last two decades.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> What I'm saying though, are they even "cranking" out USA selects? Those were supposed to be the "stock" model that was on the store shelf to represent the USA Jackson line and I haven't had one in stock for 3 years. When I used to have 1 of every model.
> 
> I'll wait and see I guess.



They're as back logged as anything else, just like I'm sure these will be after the initial batch for artists and to drum up hype runs dry.

No, the Custom Selects were not supposed to be "stock" models. They were designed to be a more limited, set spec line of Jackson Custom Shop instruments with a fixed menu of the most common options, just like Fender Custom Shop had used for decades. This was supposed to free up the shop for whacky Masterbuilt stuff, but the plan backfired because it became so incredibly popular.

Prior to the Custom Selects, you had the USA Selects which were the non-optioned stock guitars, which were sitting in dealer inventories for years, which prompted the change to semi-custom only around 13'/14'.

They still left open "non-op" Custom Selects, which are basically USA Selects done through the same process as the current models, which you sometimes see in stock as dealers will order some in advance to secure spots in the queue.


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 16, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> They're as back logged as anything else, just like I'm sure these will be after the initial batch for artists and to drum up hype runs dry.
> 
> No, the Custom Selects were not supposed to be "stock" models. They were designed to be a more limited, set spec line of Jackson Custom Shop instruments with a fixed menu of the most common options, just like Fender Custom Shop had used for decades. This was supposed to free up the shop for whacky Masterbuilt stuff, but the plan backfired because it became so incredibly popular.
> 
> ...


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## jephjacques (Sep 16, 2022)

mods rename this thread Bad Take Thunderdome


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## spudmunkey (Sep 16, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> mods rename this thread Bad Take Thunderdome


Ugh. Can't we just get _ beyond_ Thunderdome?


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## jephjacques (Sep 16, 2022)




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## DiezelMonster (Sep 16, 2022)

Stiman said:


> Meh, we’re all still real people, making purchasing decisions too.


I don't discount that, not at all. I'm definitely one of those people as well.
But I've seen a lot of criticism about these guitars and my only real qualifier is, what is the percentage of those people complaining have had the guitar in their hands?


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## Stiman (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I don't discount that, not at all. I'm definitely one of those people as well.
> But I've seen a lot of criticism about these guitars and my only real qualifier is, what is the percentage of those people complaining have had the guitar in their hands?



I don’t put guitars in my hands that don’t meet a minimum level of spec requirements and that aren’t way over priced (disclaimer: in my opinion).

To that point, I’ve seen several comments along the lines of “but look how affordable they are compared to custom shop Jacksons” and I think this is a really weak argument. The guitar (it’s specs and price) should stand on its own, not be “worth it” just compared to something else.

Again, all of this is with a “value” point of view and I understand that people buying these might not see value as the most important criteria.


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## possumkiller (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I don't discount that, not at all. I'm definitely one of those people as well.
> But I've seen a lot of criticism about these guitars and my only real qualifier is, what is the percentage of those people complaining have had the guitar in their hands?


You have to remember these are also the kind of people who think a custom shop strat is a ripoff because it's the same thing as a Mexican strat. "Why would I pay $3k for a plain old black strat when I can get one for $700?"

Or they think a KH602 is the same thing as a custom shop KH2. "I'm not paying $5k for a plain black guitar with stupid skull inlays."

The same kind of people who would spend more money on an iron label because it has fishmans and a burl top than a plain Jane prestige.


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 16, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> You have to remember these are also the kind of people who think a custom shop strat is a ripoff because it's the same thing as a Mexican strat. "Why would I pay $3k for a plain old black strat when I can get one for $700?"
> 
> Or they think a KH602 is the same thing as a custom shop KH2. "I'm not paying $5k for a plain black guitar with stupid skull inlays."
> 
> The same kind of people who would spend more money on an iron label because it has fishmans and a burl top than a plain Jane prestige.


So that means you're saying that is everyone in this thread hahahaha


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> So that means you're saying that is everyone in this thread hahahaha


I'm more of a "the custom shop one is only 2k more so I'll just get that" kinda guy


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## tedtan (Sep 16, 2022)

Speaking only for myself, I’m not in the market for these as I already have my 6-string Jackson needs covered. If they were 7-strings, they may get my interest, but, unfortunately, 7-string Jacksons are custom shop only (with the wait time that entails).


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## NCASO96 (Sep 16, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> You have to remember these are also the kind of people who think a custom shop strat is a ripoff because it's the same thing as a Mexican strat. "Why would I pay $3k for a plain old black strat when I can get one for $700?"
> 
> Or they think a KH602 is the same thing as a custom shop KH2. "I'm not paying $5k for a plain black guitar with stupid skull inlays."
> 
> The same kind of people who would spend more money on an iron label because it has fishmans and a burl top than a plain Jane prestige.





possumkiller said:


> I don't usually care for Jacksons but I like these. I like the lack of binding. I like the truss rod location and the direct mounted pickups. Inlays look fine to me. I like the black and blue ones a lot. I definitely wouldn't spend that kind of money for one though.


^^ Looks like someone wasn't ready to open his wallet earlier... Scott Ian's demo sold you huh?


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## NCASO96 (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> Yes this is a "discussion" board. Thanka for pointing that out to me. I hadn't noticed. Usually when people want to discuss it's because they have an objective opinion based on experience.
> 
> Have you put your hands on one of these guitars yet? You know, to have an objective opinion? Or are you just parroting other BS you have read from all your internet hype lords?
> 
> ...



Thanka?

I've played a lot of guitars in this price range and above from competitive brands, I've played a lot of Jacksons. I like the brand. I'm not afraid to spend $.

I haven't played this one, but do I really need to in order to say it's overpriced/hyped and not offering anything new at this price point? How many have you sold so far? Did you buy one yet?

I'm not "complaining" in your showroom or in your shop's forum... this is a* public forum*.

Because you're in "the business" means ONLY your opinion is valid, everyone else is a complainer looking to "cheap out" with a fishman loaded $500 Ltd?

You're coming off as "Joe Jackson" here... maybe you're not as objective as you've led your
"non-complaining customers to believe?

Take care. Thanka


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## DiezelMonster (Sep 16, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> Thanka?
> 
> I've played a lot of guitars in this price range and above from competitive brands, I've played a lot of Jacksons. I like the brand. I'm not afraid to spend $.
> 
> ...


Yes. to all your questions.

The internet isn't a real place pal, don't take yourself so seriously.

But yes, I did order one and will be in soon hopefully and we have sold all 4 since they came in, I have more on the way.

Like I said before bud, You do you!


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## NCASO96 (Sep 16, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> Yes. to all your questions.
> 
> The internet isn't a real place pal, don't take yourself so seriously.
> 
> ...


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 16, 2022)

mmr007 said:


> Jackson as a guitar company is a failure when it comes to marketing research.
> 
> They released these guitars, none of which are the the exact specs I am looking for in a guitar. I blame their marketing research.
> 
> ...


This post wins the thread 10/10 content.


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## Vyn (Sep 16, 2022)

At least the these make sense. The concept series 7-string Rhoads does not - The portion of the community that still buys cammo finishes only really want JH sigs anyway.


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## possumkiller (Sep 17, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> ^^ Looks like someone wasn't ready to open his wallet earlier... Scott Ian's demo sold you huh?


Nope. Still not opening my wallet. If I were still single with money to burn sure, but that ship sailed years ago.

I've went through enough guitars in my life to know the differences between a $2500 higher end guitar with plainer specs and a rough cut $400 Indo guitar with $600 of pickups and hardware slapped on it being sold for $1800 because toilet burls are "in".


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## Dr. Caligari (Sep 17, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I don't discount that, not at all. I'm definitely one of those people as well.
> But I've seen a lot of criticism about these guitars and my only real qualifier is, what is the percentage of those people complaining have had the guitar in their hands?



I don't want the guitar in my hands because it's fugly and has specs I hate. If it was free I still wouldn't play it.

People are different and like different things. I happen to absolutely hate some aspects of these guitars. I understand that you want to sell guitars but every guitar isn't right for every person. I think it's in the interest of a retailer to understand that and to cater for different people/tastes. I mean you might as well try to convince me to try a piano or an oboe. I don't need to try it because it's not what I'm looking for.


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 17, 2022)

Vyn said:


> At least the these make sense. The concept series 7-string Rhoads does not - The portion of the community that still buys cammo finishes only really want JH sigs anyway.


Hey that new ESP Camo snakebyte is a JH sig too


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## 1b4n3z (Sep 17, 2022)

If they had non-recessed Floyds, that would mean a lot to me - now this SL3 series appears to me as a downgrade from Select series (which wasn't very high end to begin with). With a non-recessed trem they could be marketed as 80's inspired shredders in the spirit of Shannon Soloists, maybe. Wouldn't hurt to invoke a master builder name within marketing materials, either.

These appear a good deal, I think because the Select line has disappeared after increasing in price a ridiculous amount. They might've been "too cheap" sometime between 2015-2020, but a sudden shock increase is bad PR. (How many custom selects are they still building, that were orderd right before the price hike of late 2020?)

I don't appreciate belittling of quality grievances here. As mentioned before, Soloists from 2000-2010 were plagued by amateur bridge routing. I've had hald a dozen myself and more than 50 % of that era Soloists I see for sale here in Europe suffer from bridge misalignment. Not a difficult thing to rectify if the motivation is there. Hopefully these new series of guitars are indeed made by different folk


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## Flappydoodle (Sep 17, 2022)

1b4n3z said:


> With a non-recessed trem they could be marketed as 80's inspired shredders in the spirit of Shannon Soloists, maybe. Wouldn't hurt to invoke a master builder name within marketing materials, either.


That's exactly how they are marketing these

And Mike Shannon is *all over* the marketing for these guitars. He was interviewed in the very first Jackson promo video about these. They were saying how they went back to his original designs blah blah.

(And FYI, if you want top-mounted Floyd and a Jackson-inspired 12-16 inch radius with excellent build quality... Caparison)


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## oracles (Sep 17, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> And FYI, if you want top-mounted Floyd and a Jackson-inspired 12-16 inch radius with excellent build quality...


Or you could just buy one of the SL2HV's that the Music Zoo does runs of all the time 









Jackson Custom Shop SL2H-V Soloist Black Music Zoo Exclusive 2019 #J9886


This is a used and still in overall excellent condition SL2H-V Soloist from the Jackson Custom Shop. The guitar has light scratches around the body, no major dings nor dents - with the original case and trem arm included! One of our favorite Music Zoo and Jackson collaborations ever, our...




www.themusiczoo.com


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## 1b4n3z (Sep 17, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> That's exactly how they are marketing these
> 
> And Mike Shannon is *all over* the marketing for these guitars. He was interviewed in the very first Jackson promo video about these. They were saying how they went back to his original designs blah blah.
> 
> (And FYI, if you want top-mounted Floyd and a Jackson-inspired 12-16 inch radius with excellent build quality... Caparison)


Thanks for the suggestion  For me it's ESP or Jackson - brands absolutely matter in guitars in excess of $1k, to me :/ I have 5 80's Jacksons here (4 soloists, 1 strat) and I think I'm good for now.

Thomann sells masterbuilt relic'd 80's inspired Soloist for almost 10k euros with funny wearing pattern. I have an original soloist in that exact same color and it's not a very good guitar  The nostalgia value is high though. I'd trade it for a new CS in a heartbeat, no matter high unrealistic a relic job on it


----------



## NCASO96 (Sep 17, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> Nope. Still not opening my wallet. If I were still single with money to burn sure, but that ship sailed years ago.
> 
> I've went through enough guitars in my life to know the differences between a $2500 higher end guitar with plainer specs and a rough cut $400 Indo guitar with $600 of pickups and hardware slapped on it being sold for $1800 because toilet burls are "in".


i hear you... i'm no fan of this burl trend either...

so, you don't believe any major brand is producing a quality production line guitar under $2k?

honest question.


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 17, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> That's exactly how they are marketing these
> 
> And Mike Shannon is *all over* the marketing for these guitars. He was interviewed in the very first Jackson promo video about these. They were saying how they went back to his original designs blah blah.
> 
> (And FYI, if you want top-mounted Floyd and a Jackson-inspired 12-16 inch radius with excellent build quality... Caparison)


I thought all the ones had finally caved to the deeper recess?


----------



## NCASO96 (Sep 17, 2022)

1b4n3z said:


> If they had non-recessed Floyds, that would mean a lot to me - now this SL3 series appears to me as a downgrade from Select series (which wasn't very high end to begin with). With a non-recessed trem they could be marketed as 80's inspired shredders in the spirit of Shannon Soloists, maybe. Wouldn't hurt to invoke a master builder name within marketing materials, either.
> 
> These appear a good deal, I think because the Select line has disappeared after increasing in price a ridiculous amount. They might've been "too cheap" sometime between 2015-2020, but a sudden shock increase is bad PR. (How many custom selects are they still building, that were orderd right before the price hike of late 2020?)
> 
> *I don't appreciate belittling of quality grievances here. *As mentioned before, Soloists from 2000-2010 were plagued by amateur bridge routing. I've had hald a dozen myself and more than 50 % of that era Soloists I see for sale here in Europe suffer from bridge misalignment. Not a difficult thing to rectify if the motivation is there. Hopefully these new series of guitars are indeed made by different folk


thank you


----------



## jonsick (Sep 17, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> I don't discount that, not at all. I'm definitely one of those people as well.
> But I've seen a lot of criticism about these guitars and my only real qualifier is, what is the percentage of those people complaining have had the guitar in their hands?


I have had it iin my hands, was a serious customer and decided against it after seeing and playing it.

It isn't a terrible guitar by any means, but I'm sad to say some of the criticism is deserved. And to me the primary piece of criticism is that £2000 of Jackson USA money feels very underwhelming especially in the presence of other manufacturers in the market. Given how the neck feels, I am absolutely sure that Jackson have essentially borrowed a lot of processes already in place for Fender in their Corona facility and have not altered it enough to allow for a great Jackson guitar to leave the Factory. Frankly, to me it feels like a Fender with a Jackson headstock and frankly that's what it is. You only need pick up any USA Jackson SL1 or SL2H and a high end Fender USA and it's obvious which one it feels like. 

That to me is the sad part about it. Aesthetically I can get over it, sharkfin direction, truss rod placement, the finishes, all of that is in the eye of the beholder. 

To me, and though I am a big Jackson fan, £2000 is better spent elsewhere.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Sep 17, 2022)

Got to play one from my local shop. Nobody knew if these were SS frets but they were installed very well. It even has better rolled edges compared to my CS. Fretboard is uniformly dyed black as you would expect and Jackson still uses the MOST REFLECTIVE Mother of Pearl same as the Selects. I swear, they have the best MOP stock of any company. 

It plays faster than I am used to. Neck is flatter and feels thinner despite being painted. Set up very well and no flaw on the paint. It also sounds brighter and snappier. 

The quality is there for sure. People who buy 2.5K Suhr Moderns or old ESP M should check this out.


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 17, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> i hear you... i'm no fan of this burl trend either...
> 
> so, you don't believe any major brand is producing a quality production line guitar under $2k?
> 
> honest question.


There are loads. Just not USA Jacksons. Squier absolutely does great stuff the last few years. But it's apples and oranges. I'm paying for Asian labor and parts with the Squier and for American labor and parts on the US Fender. I had a custom shop 1969 Strat in sunburst that I was going to swap the body with my classic vibe 50s because I wanted a white body. The contours were exactly the same. Both poly finished. Both alder so they should be basically the same right? After all it's literally just a plank with a bit of sanding and paint. Somehow you could feel a difference. Like, I wouldn't think there was anything wrong with the Squier at all but somehow the custom shop body just felt better. Idk like smoother or something. The finishing felt better. 

What really caught me off guard was buying a og bc rich asm pro. The first version that was alder body with full white binding and small diamond inlays. It was made in Korea. I got it for like $699 and had it shipped to Iraq to jam in my down time. I sent it back home. It was my beater guitar that I didn't care about damaging. But it played great. I had ordered a standard series esp m2uc and when I got home to play it I was pretty floored that it felt like the exact same guitar as the asm pro. It had all the same specs apart from color, headstock shape, inlays, no body binding, ofr instead of a 1000. But they were both super strats maple neck through alder body with 24fret ebony fretboard, non reverse inline headstock, floyd, emgs, and satin finishes. One was $699 made in Korea and the other was $1500 made in Japan. If I were blindfolded, I couldn't tell them apart.


----------



## Sequential (Sep 17, 2022)

I've had my fair share of ESP and LTDs, the last being the Korean version of the MH-1007. It had its fair share of cosmetic flaws that you'd never find on an E-II, nor was its build quality on par either. I traded it for a bare bones American Strat. The LTD has ss frets, Fishman pickups, set-thru neck, and an Evertune bridge. On paper I got ripped off big time, but honestly I don't care as I like playing the Strat a lot more. I also have an Ultra Strat that on paper is a lot better than the Strat I traded for, but I'm just not into the more modern profile of the Ultra neck, which feels too thin in my hand. Which brings me to this new Soloist ... The first thing I felt when I heard the price was shock, yet for some reason it's been the most interesting guitar related stories to follow for me in ages. Now I really want to play one to see for myself. My question is, how does it compare to the Strat Ultra neck? If it's similar, then I can get this one out of my mind.


----------



## technomancer (Sep 17, 2022)

jonsick said:


> I have had it iin my hands, was a serious customer and decided against it after seeing and playing it.
> 
> It isn't a terrible guitar by any means, but I'm sad to say some of the criticism is deserved. And to me the primary piece of criticism is that £2000 of Jackson USA money feels very underwhelming especially in the presence of other manufacturers in the market. Given how the neck feels, I am absolutely sure that Jackson have essentially borrowed a lot of processes already in place for Fender in their Corona facility and have not altered it enough to allow for a great Jackson guitar to leave the Factory. Frankly, to me it feels like a Fender with a Jackson headstock and frankly that's what it is. You only need pick up any USA Jackson SL1 or SL2H and a high end Fender USA and it's obvious which one it feels like.
> 
> ...



You could have saved tons of text by just saying, "I played one and didn't like the neck profile".


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 17, 2022)

TBH I would also love a neck-through USA strat with the exact same specs


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## jephjacques (Sep 18, 2022)

Put my money where my mouth is and bought one. It'll be fun comparing it to my custom shop kelly, and my American Elite strat since a couple people say these SL3s have a more "modern fender" style neck.


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## jonsick (Sep 18, 2022)

technomancer said:


> You could have saved tons of text by just saying, "I played one and didn't like the neck profile".


Yes but I feel more important this way.


----------



## marke (Sep 18, 2022)

In so many examples of SL-3 I've seen (and in some other Jackson as well) the 2nd inlay (3rd fret) often looks a bit crooked. It's not a lot, but just enough to notice when comparing with the string. Is it me or the samples I've seen or what? Some "thing"?


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## possumkiller (Sep 19, 2022)

marke said:


> In so many examples of SL-3 I've seen (and in some other Jackson as well) the 2nd inlay (3rd fret) often looks a bit crooked. It's not a lot, but just enough to notice when comparing with the string. Is it me or the samples I've seen or what? Some "thing"?


Maybe the inlays are cut from a perfect right angle instead of fitting the angle of the fretboard edge?


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## Emperoff (Sep 19, 2022)

This is the most SSO thread I've read in a very long time


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## eaeolian (Sep 19, 2022)

Right? Love, hate, anger and self-righteousness over a guitar that like 10 people here are gonna buy.


----------



## mastapimp (Sep 19, 2022)

marke said:


> In so many examples of SL-3 I've seen (and in some other Jackson as well) the 2nd inlay (3rd fret) often looks a bit crooked. It's not a lot, but just enough to notice when comparing with the string. Is it me or the samples I've seen or what? Some "thing"?


Width of the string spacing is wider at the bridge than the nut. The string you're using as a straight line reference will make anything installed at a right angle look slightly askew.


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## marke (Sep 19, 2022)

Makes sense I guess with the inlays. Feel kinda dumb now, but that's familiar to me so no biggie.

I really like the green SL3. I do not own Jacksons or have any kind of history with them so for me these are just cool looking guitars. The comments about their weight, however, is preventing me to buy one sight unseen. Can't stand heavy guitars.


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## jephjacques (Sep 20, 2022)

Seems weird to me that they'd be heavy; alder bodied neck-throughs generally aren't, in my experience. We'll see how mine feels when it gets here.


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## xzacx (Sep 20, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Seems weird to me that they'd be heavy; alder bodied neck-throughs generally aren't, in my experience. We'll see how mine feels when it gets here.


I've owned a couple 9+ pound Soloists over the years, so it's not really surprising to me that they wouldn't be light. I never really took that as a bad thing—just kinda of part of what makes a Soloist a Soloist.


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## jephjacques (Sep 20, 2022)

Interesting! I've experienced some pretty crazy weight variation in swamp ash but I didn't know alder could be that extreme.


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## possumkiller (Sep 20, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Seems weird to me that they'd be heavy; alder bodied neck-throughs generally aren't, in my experience. We'll see how mine feels when it gets here.


I had an ESP KH4 that definitely wasn't light.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 20, 2022)

How heavy are these getting? All the ones I can find new with weight posted are under 8.5lbs. 

That's about a pound more than an average AmProII Tele, half more than an AmProII Strat, and just about the same as an Ibanez RG652AHM.

They don't seem super heavy.


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## cardinal (Sep 20, 2022)

A local shop seems to have some in stock. I'm trying to find time to check them out, but probably won't be super helpful. Factory set ups usually aren't great. The truss rod should be easy to set (I love the wheel adjust), but I can't quickly adjust the action on a floating Floyd.


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## Guamskyy (Sep 20, 2022)

So is this “speed” neck that Jackson keeps touting about the same speed neck that Charvel has on their Dinky’s? If it is, it’s a nice profile that’s rounded but still thin enough to move around on


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## olejason (Sep 20, 2022)

8.5lb seems pretty good with the Floyd. Most of my similar spec'd guitars seem a little heavier.


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## eaeolian (Sep 20, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> How heavy are these getting? All the ones I can find new with weight posted are under 8.5lbs.
> 
> That's about a pound more than an average AmProII Tele, half more than an AmProII Strat, and just about the same as an Ibanez RG652AHM.
> 
> They don't seem super heavy.


Right, and that half-pound can be attributed to the Floyd. 8lbs isn't heavy.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 20, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Right, and that half-pound can be attributed to the Floyd. 8lbs isn't heavy.



I thought these would be like 10lbs+ with how folks were talking.


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## eaeolian (Sep 20, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I thought these would be like 10lbs+ with how folks were talking.


"It weighs more than my Fly".


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## Emperoff (Sep 20, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I thought these would be like 10lbs+ with how folks were talking.



That's because swamp ash + burl tops make lightweight guitars


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 20, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> "It weighs more than my Fly".


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## NCASO96 (Sep 20, 2022)

honestly... the blue one looks really great. maybe my GC will get a few of these to test run.

Just wish they were in the $2k range....


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## marke (Sep 20, 2022)

8.5 - 9 lbs IS heavy for a superstrat. At least for me. With this type of guitar I'm looking for ones ~7 lbs. Many ESPs are like that, especially Custom Shop. My RGR Prestige is 6.4 lbs , and I even had 6.6 Standard Eclipse.. that one was great to play!

If people are cool with 9 lbs superstrats then fine, but I think they're just uncomfortable for longer playing sessions. May sound stupid but lightweight instruments are easier to handle and guitar playing is not static. It helps even when sitting down if the guitar is well-balanced AND lightweight. Makes those minor position adjustments a breeze while playing.

YMMV.


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## MASS DEFECT (Sep 20, 2022)

Eh. Jackson Soloists, at least the US-made ones always have hovered around 7-8lbs. They have weight but not heavy.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Sep 20, 2022)

Yall mfs want a light guitar, get an X shape

my Ormsby is a little over 6 and my stealth is a tiny bit more than that


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## Emperoff (Sep 21, 2022)

So, what I got after reading 25 pages of nonsense is that you guys are angry because the new "USA Jackson Soloist" is not a Strandberg


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## JimF (Sep 21, 2022)

To be honest I'm just mad it's not HH


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## eaeolian (Sep 21, 2022)

JimF said:


> To be honest I'm just mad it's not HH


Buy a MJ.


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## JimF (Sep 21, 2022)

Thats the way I'm leaning really. I just saw MIA and got excited.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 21, 2022)

JimF said:


> I just saw MIA and got excited.


WRONG. NOBODY cares if it was made in America you need to compare the SPECS and realize it's not good VALUE FOR MONEY now go buy an IMPORT because they have VALUE FOR MONEY you're not getting ANYTHING worthwhile with this guitar and because I don't like it means YOU CAN'T EITHER.


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## eaeolian (Sep 21, 2022)

JimF said:


> Thats the way I'm leaning really. I just saw MIA and got excited.


Or you can buy a Select, and get whatever you want. In 18 months.
This is Jackson/FMIC going for new marketshare - HSS is the most popular SuperStrat config.


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## JimF (Sep 21, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Or you can buy a Select, and get whatever you want. In 18 months.



Out of my budget unfortunately.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 21, 2022)

Honestly while looking for single coil-sized humbuckers, I was surprised to see how much variety there is in that department. So TBH even though they're H-S-S, you can probably find a single coil bucker that'll suit your needs.


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## jephjacques (Sep 21, 2022)

Just got mine, here's my initial out of the box impressions:

Came well set up and close to in tune (thanks Floyd Rose). Build quality is solid. Fretwork is good. Maybe not to the level of my CS but no high frets or sloppy work there. Rolled fretboard edges feel very, very nice. Fretboard looks good and the reverse inlays don't bother me. Neck profile is definitely thinner than the usual Soloist shape, but not like JP territory or anything extreme. I guess that could be a deal-breaker if you only want the OG Jackson neck shape. The black-on-black look is sick as hell in person. Bridge functions as it should. Pickups are good- I knew what I was expecting with the JB in the bridge but the single coils are also very nice (better than I remember the ones in my old soloist being). 

I'm very pleased with my purchase. It feels like A Good Guitar. Whether it's enough VALUE for your MONEY is pretty subjective but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one of these to someone who wants a pointy headstock and has $2500 to spend.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin (Sep 21, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Just got mine, here's my initial out of the box impressions:
> 
> Came well set up and close to in tune (thanks Floyd Rose). Build quality is solid. Fretwork is good. Maybe not to the level of my CS but no high frets or sloppy work there. Rolled fretboard edges feel very, very nice. Fretboard looks good and the reverse inlays don't bother me. Neck profile is definitely thinner than the usual Soloist shape, but not like JP territory or anything extreme. I guess that could be a deal-breaker if you only want the OG Jackson neck shape. The black-on-black look is sick as hell in person. Bridge functions as it should. Pickups are good- I knew what I was expecting with the JB in the bridge but the single coils are also very nice (better than I remember the ones in my old soloist being).
> 
> I'm very pleased with my purchase. It feels like A Good Guitar. Whether it's enough VALUE for your MONEY is pretty subjective but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one of these to someone who wants a pointy headstock and has $2500 to spend.


What color did you pick? Pictures!!!


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## MFB (Sep 21, 2022)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> What color did you pick? Pictures!!!



He did say 'black on black' so I'm going to assume, blue?


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## jephjacques (Sep 21, 2022)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> What color did you pick? Pictures!!!


Black! And no pics because it's already covered in fingerprints from me manhandling it


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## Emperoff (Sep 21, 2022)

Seriously, all I can hear is that if they release the white soloist as a 7 I'd be throwing money at them. I don't give a shit about binding.


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 21, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Just got mine, here's my initial out of the box impressions:
> 
> Came well set up and close to in tune (thanks Floyd Rose). Build quality is solid. Fretwork is good. Maybe not to the level of my CS but no high frets or sloppy work there. Rolled fretboard edges feel very, very nice. Fretboard looks good and the reverse inlays don't bother me. Neck profile is definitely thinner than the usual Soloist shape, but not like JP territory or anything extreme. I guess that could be a deal-breaker if you only want the OG Jackson neck shape. The black-on-black look is sick as hell in person. Bridge functions as it should. Pickups are good- I knew what I was expecting with the JB in the bridge but the single coils are also very nice (better than I remember the ones in my old soloist being).
> 
> I'm very pleased with my purchase. It feels like A Good Guitar. Whether it's enough VALUE for your MONEY is pretty subjective but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one of these to someone who wants a pointy headstock and has $2500 to spend.


That's the "speed" neck. It's a good shape, just thinner than the usual Rhoads/Soloist neck.


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 21, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Seriously, all I can hear is that if they release the white soloist as a 7 I'd be throwing money at them. I don't give a shit about binding.


this neck shape would be GREAT for a 7. Hopefully they sell well enough that they expand the line!


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 21, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Seriously, all I can hear is that if they release the white soloist as a 7 I'd be throwing money at them. I don't give a shit about binding.


Yeah, I'd come off my "no recessed trems" for that.


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 21, 2022)

I just spent 10 minutes doing stupid trem bullshit and it stayed in tune. They must have mistakenly put on OFR on because everybody knows the 1500 series is crap


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 21, 2022)

OH NO THE FRETS BROKE ALL MY STRINGS AND GAVE MY DICK CANCER BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT STAINLESS STEEL


----------



## TornAnus (Sep 21, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> I just spent 10 minutes doing stupid trem bullshit and it stayed in tune. They must have mistakenly put on OFR on because everybody knows the 1500 series is crap


Cant stand when people say that. I have two guitars with the Korean made FR and they are every bit as stable as my German made one.


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 21, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> OH NO THE FRETS BROKE ALL MY STRINGS AND GAVE MY DICK CANCER BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT STAINLESS STEEL


That explains that California warning on the warranty card!


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 21, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> That explains that California warning on the warranty card!


bamboozled again by those damned coastal elites


----------



## Church2224 (Sep 21, 2022)

We need pics of it!

The guitar.... not your dick with Cancer...


----------



## MFB (Sep 21, 2022)

Church2224 said:


> We need pics of it!
> 
> The guitar.... not your dick with Cancer...



Debatable


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 21, 2022)

that's a special tier on my patreon


----------



## Church2224 (Sep 21, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> that's a special tier on my patreon



Thank God I don't do Patreon


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## jephjacques (Sep 21, 2022)

some crappy cellphone pics


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## wannabguitarist (Sep 21, 2022)

It's hard to get more metal than a black Soloist. I love it.


----------



## MetalDaze (Sep 21, 2022)

Someone needs to give theses pics the Dirty Puma treatment.

That notch at the end of the fretboard is most certainly affecting your tone and sustain


----------



## Tree (Sep 21, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> some crappy cellphone pics
> 
> View attachment 114681
> 
> ...


God damn that is hot! 






I don’t need a 2.5k six string, I don’t need a 2.5k string, I don’t need a 2.5k six string. 

If I say it enough times I’ll believe it.


----------



## Emperoff (Sep 21, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> some crappy cellphone pics
> 
> View attachment 114681
> 
> ...



That thing looks sleek as fuck. I'll take an all black guitar over a vomit burl burst one anytime. The lack of pickup rings makes it look more modern.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Sep 21, 2022)

Black. Even the neck is painted black. No white binding. Totally murdered-out. Totally my jam. Congrats!


----------



## xzacx (Sep 21, 2022)

The black one is so good. The upside down sharkfins and painted logo really make it look like a Custom Shop more than a takedown model.


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## marke (Sep 21, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> So, what I got after reading 25 pages of nonsense is that you guys are angry because the new "USA Jackson Soloist" is not a Strandberg


Not really. I don't think anybody's angry. I merely said I don't like heavier superstrats, and apparently these soloists are not the lightest. I do like the guitar otherwise.


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## jephjacques (Sep 21, 2022)

mine weighs a normal amount


----------



## neptoess (Sep 21, 2022)

marke said:


> Not really. I don't think anybody's angry. I merely said I don't like heavier superstrats, and apparently these soloists are not the lightest. I do like the guitar otherwise.


First Reverb listing I found says they weighed it at 8.2 lb. Certainly at least a little bit lighter than a maple neck LP custom...


----------



## 73647k (Sep 21, 2022)

I really dig it. Reminds me of an old Charvel Model 6 that I used to have


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## neptoess (Sep 21, 2022)

73647k said:


> I really dig it. Reminds me of an old Charvel Model 6 that I used to have


Model 6s are cool as hell. Especially the 1986 ones, because of the Kahler


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 22, 2022)

I went from being mildly intrigued by a standard series US Jackson, to liking the specs and colors, to hardcore gasing for a guitar I can't afford.


----------



## jahosy (Sep 22, 2022)

congrats mate, looks really slick! sometimes less is more... definitely the case here!


----------



## Emperoff (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Not really. I don't think anybody's angry. I merely said I don't like heavier superstrats, and apparently these soloists are not the lightest. I do like the guitar otherwise.



Oh sure, let me just add it to the list of overall complaints real quick 

*- Doesn't weight like a Strandberg*
- No SS frets (which the 4500$ Soloists don't have either).
- Bridge not german made
- No binding
- Upside down inlays
- Headstock logo being a decal and not MOP
- No "Made in USA" quote next to the logo.
- No pickup rings
- Solid colors

I'm sure I forgot something


----------



## drb (Sep 22, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Oh sure, let me just add it to the list of overall complaints real quick
> 
> *- Doesn't weight like a Strandberg*
> - No SS frets (which the 4500$ Soloists don't have either).
> ...



Throw in "No reverse headstock option" and "No HH configuration". 

Basically I want a USA made Mick Thomson sig with an actual floating trem.


----------



## JimF (Sep 22, 2022)

Anyone else really impressed that the guitars went from being leaked, to actually in people's hands in like 6 weeks?
Compared to other brands, I think keeping these under wraps was the best decision. Rather than announcing in January with a perpetual "Available Soon!" tag.


----------



## zw470 (Sep 22, 2022)

JimF said:


> Anyone else really impressed that the guitars went from being leaked, to actually in people's hands in like 6 weeks?
> Compared to other brands, I think keeping these under wraps was the best decision. Rather than announcing in January with a perpetual "Available Soon!" tag.



In my completely uneducated opinion, it seems like most of the guitar inventory issues are overseas models. American or Mexican guitars appear to be readily available.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2022)

PromptCritical5 said:


> In my completely uneducated opinion, it seems like most of the guitar inventory issues are overseas models. American or Mexican guitars appear to be readily available.



Fender is in the unique position that they do just about everything in house and given the development of the new/modified manufacturing area, it probably wasn't impacted by a lot of the bottle necks we're seeing elsewhere. 

While pretty much all the overseas brands are fighting for production slots at five or six big OEMs that are struggling, especially in China where you still have covid lock downs.


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 22, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Fender is in the unique position that they do just about everything in house and given the development of the new/modified manufacturing area, it probably wasn't impacted by a lot of the bottle necks we're seeing elsewhere.
> 
> While pretty much all the overseas brands are fighting for production slots at five or six big OEMs that are struggling, especially in China where you still have covid lock downs.


I'm betting this encouraged Fender to take a swing at this. MJs are hard to find. These were in stock within a couple days of the announcement.


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## Emperoff (Sep 22, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> I'm betting this encouraged Fender to take a swing at this. MJs are hard to find. These were in stock within a couple days of the announcement.



At the prices they go, they will probably cannibalize themselves. They should merge the two series. They already share plenty of design features.


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 22, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> At the prices they go, they will probably cannibalize themselves. They should merge the two series. They already share plenty of design features.


I don't think Fender is worried about that at this point. If the American Series works out, you'll probably see a 2H Soloist and a Rhoads (although that would require a different line and is a bigger leap.) I wonder what the sales numbers are on SL-2Hs vs. regular SL-1s?


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## xzacx (Sep 22, 2022)

It's pretty easy to have stuff ready for the announcement, since they can just....wait to make the announcement until there's sufficient inventory ready to go. It'll be more interesting to see if they're able to keep them coming if they sell well and have continued interest. I'm not saying I doubt that will happen, just that keeping it up will be a bigger deal than the strong launch.


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## jephjacques (Sep 22, 2022)

Yeah Fender really knocked it out of the park in terms of the rollout. They were even available up here in the frozen north like 2 weeks after the announcement! That NEVER happens.

The more I play mine the more fun I'm having with the single coils. They're super snappy.


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## Emperoff (Sep 22, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> I don't think Fender is worried about that at this point. If the American Series works out, you'll probably see a 2H Soloist and a Rhoads (although that would require a different line and is a bigger leap.) I wonder what the sales numbers are on SL-2Hs vs. regular SL-1s?



I just want a SL-1.5 (HS config)


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## jephjacques (Sep 22, 2022)

drb said:


> Throw in "No reverse headstock option" and "No HH configuration".
> 
> Basically I want a USA made Mick Thomson sig with an actual floating trem.


the only thing I'd change about mine would be to give it a reverse headstock, as this is the superior choice. (actually I'd also make the trem and nut screws black to match the rest of the hardware but that's nbd)


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## jephjacques (Sep 22, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> I just want a SL-1.5 (HS config)


just crank that middle mf all the way down and you're good to go. Or EVH it and rip the fucker out


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> At the prices they go, they will probably cannibalize themselves. They should merge the two series. They already share plenty of design features.


I just wish they’d pull a Gibson and do an American or MJ series run with proper Jackson kit (binding, proper inlays, OFR). I mean, even Jackson did this back in the day, with the Model 6, 650XL, and Soloist Pro. It’s not like the kind of customer spending $4-5k on a USA/Custom Select series is suddenly going to not buy that guitar just because a cheaper one looks very similar. If guitar players were like that, the Les Paul Standard 50s would have completely cannibalized R8 and R9 sales.


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## Emperoff (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> I just wish they’d pull a Gibson and do an American or MJ series run with proper Jackson kit (binding, proper inlays, OFR). I mean, even Jackson did this back in the day, with the Model 6, 650XL, and Soloist Pro. It’s not like the kind of customer spending $4-5k on a USA/Custom Select series is suddenly going to not buy that guitar just because a cheaper one looks very similar. If guitar players were like that, the Les Paul Standard 50s would have completely cannibalized R8 and R9 sales.



Here we go again. So basically you want a 4500$ Soloist at 2500$, same specs and all. Well... Don't we all do?


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Here we go again. So basically you want a 4500$ Soloist at 2500$, same specs and all. Well... Don't we all do?


I mean… how much more do you think it would cost Jackson to build the SL3 with the inlays in the other direction, add binding, use an OFR instead of the 1500, and add a real hardshell? I’d pay $3k for that. Easily. It still won’t bat in the same league as an actual SL1 though, because it’s not built by the custom shop. It’s a high end production guitar vs a custom shop guitar. A production guitar could turn out to be a better guitar, but the cost will almost always be higher from the custom shop, because they’re luthiers, and they have to be paid more. Other guitar companies do this, and still sell a shitload of custom shop models. Gibson USA, Fender American, PRS S2, ESP E-II. Etc.


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## Emperoff (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> I mean… how much more do you think it would cost Jackson to build the SL3 with the inlays in the other direction, add binding, use an OFR instead of the 1500, and add a real hardshell? I’d pay $3k for that. Easily.



Looks like you still don't get it. 

If Jackson did that they'd cannibalize USA Select sales, which are selling way too well at 4500$.


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## Agalloch (Sep 22, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Oh sure, let me just add it to the list of overall complaints real quick
> 
> *- Doesn't weight like a Strandberg*
> - No SS frets (which the 4500$ Soloists don't have either).
> ...



This is a good summary. However, because this is allegedly MADE IN THE USA, Jackson _should_ have obtained an American-made Floyd Rose, obviously. If that means they would have to open an entirely new factory to produce American FRs, they should have done so. That's the cost of doing business.

Also, there should be a hardtail option because, as we all know, Soloists are well-known for having fixed bridges.


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## LCW (Sep 22, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Oh sure, let me just add it to the list of overall complaints real quick
> 
> *- Doesn't weight like a Strandberg*
> - No SS frets (which the 4500$ Soloists don't have either).
> ...


No hardshell case. Just a semi rigid foam case with the handle in the wrong spot so it’s unbalanced when you carry it.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Looks like you still don't get it.
> 
> If Jackson did that they'd cannibalize USA Select sales, which are selling way too well at 4500$.


Yeah, except they wouldn't. Your statement neglects production volume. Every USA Select they make sells, and it sells quickly. On top of that, the team that builds them, aka the custom shop, is so backed up with work that they aren't even accepting new orders. How many USA Selects do you think they make and sell in a year? For some reference material, here's the neck thrus they built from 1982 to 2001 (FMIC bought them in 02) https://support.jacksonguitars.com/en-us/knowledgebase/article/KA-02020. Looks like 1998 was their biggest year, and they made less than 2000 guitars _total_. The American SL3 launched in September, and I bet they'll ship 2000 units of that by the end of the year.


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## Emperoff (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Yeah, except they wouldn't. Your statement neglects production volume. Every USA Select they make sells, and it sells quickly. On top of that, the team that builds them, aka the custom shop, is so backed up with work that they aren't even accepting new orders. How many USA Selects do you think they make and sell in a year? For some reference material, here's the neck thrus they built from 1982 to 2001 (FMIC bought them in 02) https://support.jacksonguitars.com/en-us/knowledgebase/article/KA-02020. Looks like 1998 was their biggest year, and they made less than 2000 guitars _total_. The American SL3 launched in September, and I bet they'll ship 2000 units of that by the end of the year.



Whatever dude. I'm not getting into "Jackson is not making the guitar of the specs I want for the price I want" kinda arguments. Suit yourself.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2022)

They're not going to make a Select spec guitar cheaper than a Select unless it's made in China or Korea or something. 

They just aren't. They've done in before, but probably won't ever again. 

Just like PRS won't make a full carve SE, or Gibson won't put the "open book" on an Epiphone again. 

It's just the way it is.


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## cip 123 (Sep 22, 2022)

Is anyone taking these over the Jackson MJ series? 

MJ has a gotoh floyd too.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Whatever dude. I'm not getting into "Jackson is not making the guitar of the specs I want for the price I want" kinda arguments. Suit yourself.


I mean, I just had to buy a used Jackson from the 80s to get what I wanted. I reached out to dealers about sneaking in a custom order, and the response was that I couldn't get Jackson to do it for any amount of money. I'm not the target market for the SL3 anyway. If I personally wanted a Soloist, I'd have to get an 80s one with the individual switches for each pickup and an angled neck, because I can almost guarantee Jackson won't be building any like that any time soon.

But I imagine more guitars will be coming in the American series. And, as a long time Jackson fan, the way they're approaching this line means I'm not interested in it. The product in Jackson's current lineup that most appeals to me, other than the RR1, is the RR24 HS. Weird that a $2000 MIK guitar gets an OFR, binding, and sharkfins oriented the right way, but they can't do that for a $2600 MIA guitar.


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## jephjacques (Sep 22, 2022)

It's really not weird at all. Labor is cheaper overseas.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> They're not going to make a Select spec guitar cheaper than a Select unless it's made in China or Korea or something.
> 
> They just aren't. They've done in before, but probably won't ever again.
> 
> ...


Well I can see why they wouldn't do it in the Pro or X series, but I don't see an issue doing it in the American or MJ series. The top-tier import Jacksons that were full spec before were MIJ, and were legitimately awesome guitars, and they were _still_ looked down on by the crowd buying USA Jacksons. They won't cannibalize those sales. It would just get them into a market segment they're currently absent from (high end production guitars). They have the Pro series stuff, which competes somewhat with the LTD 1000 series, and the USA/Custom Select stuff, which does well as their flagship, but where's their E-II equivalent? It's arguably the MJ line, but they're cutting corners on weird stuff there too, like using pearloid inlays and shipping $3k guitars with gig bags.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> It's really not weird at all. Labor is cheaper overseas.


This isn't just labor cost. They're using a highly respected contract manufacturer (WMI in the case of the Concept series), who makes a profit, and then paying to have those guitars shipped across the world (and the shipper makes a profit too), versus paying the labor and overhead costs to make them in their own factory, and take all of the profit. If this were the MIA vs MIM argument for FMIC stuff, it would come down to just labor cost.

OFRs don't cost _that_ much more than the 1500. They retail for $200-ish. And they're not getting the 1500s for free. Reversing the inlay orientation is free. Adding binding is nearly free (CNC handles the majority of the work). Pearloid is cheaper than MoP. They could almost certainly build the RR24 HS in Corona, price it at $2600, and still turn a profit.

The Concept, MJ, and American series are just downright confusing if you compare their specs and prices.


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## eaeolian (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Well I can see why they wouldn't do it in the Pro or X series, but I don't see an issue doing it in the American or MJ series. The top-tier import Jacksons that were full spec before were MIJ, and were legitimately awesome guitars, and they were _still_ looked down on by the crowd buying USA Jacksons. They won't cannibalize those sales. It would just get them into a market segment they're currently absent from (high end production guitars). They have the Pro series stuff, which competes somewhat with the LTD 1000 series, and the USA/Custom Select stuff, which does well as their flagship, but where's their E-II equivalent? It's arguably the MJ line, but they're cutting corners on weird stuff there too, like using pearloid inlays and shipping $3k guitars with gig bags.


This *is* their E-II equivalent. Jackson understands the cachet of a USA guitar with full sharks and binding is a thing people will pay extra for, so you won't be getting that for less. I would *have* to go custom select to get what I want, anyway (Floyd on top) but one of these is close enough that if I was shopping for a new USA guitar, this would check enough boxes for me.


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## mastapimp (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Well I can see why they wouldn't do it in the Pro or X series, but I don't see an issue doing it in the American or MJ series. The top-tier import Jacksons that were full spec before were MIJ, and were legitimately awesome guitars, and they were _still_ looked down on by the crowd buying USA Jacksons. They won't cannibalize those sales. It would just get them into a market segment they're currently absent from (high end production guitars). They have the Pro series stuff, which competes somewhat with the LTD 1000 series, and the USA/Custom Select stuff, which does well as their flagship, but where's their E-II equivalent? It's arguably the MJ line, but they're cutting corners on weird stuff there too, like using pearloid inlays and shipping $3k guitars with gig bags.


Just because ESP does it one way doesn't mean everyone else has to follow suit. You realize that there's still people making the same argument about ESPs that you're making about Jackson. "Why don't they offer these cheaper models with the exact same specs as their highest tier?" Choices have to be made to differentiate...Many people will absolutely refuse to buy anything without the ESP logo on it and the E-II logo is a deal breaker or a "step down". 

Also, the case thing has been going on for years. I don't get the argument that everything has to be a hardshell. My mayones bass came in an excellent gig bag, same with my custom guitar from Equilibrium. I ordered a brand new MIJ ritchie kotzen tele about 5 years back for $1500 and it arrived in a cardboard box. Didn't feel ripped off one bit for any of these purchases.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> OFRs don't cost _that_ much more than the 1500. They retail for $200-ish. And they're not getting the 1500s for free.


They don't cost that much more for *you. *For FMIC who buys them in quantities of 10k the import stuff can start to get quite a bit different in price from German stuff. When a product is developed, they set a cost point above which they will scrap the project and even at $2600 a $50 increase can tank a project. There's a lot more that goes into pricing of the final product and sourcing components than meets the eye.



neptoess said:


> Adding binding is nearly free (CNC handles the majority of the work).


It *Really *isn't. Let's say CNC time is free (it's not but let's say it is) - The binding has to be glued in, which costs time both in labor and manufacturing space while drying. Then someone has to scrape the binding flush, which costs both base labor and labor taken from some other process. Then someone has to go through an extra step when fretting to nip the wire. All of these together might only cost $50-100 in labor and time but that starts to add up quickly in a production model guitar.

These things may seem worth a few hundred in upcharge to you, but FMIC has determined they are not worth the cost of adding, be that because it would put the price above what they think people will pay or because they don't think the end product will sell more than the current config. People are still buying them so...


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## JimF (Sep 22, 2022)

Let's not forget the cost to re-write the CNC program for these added stages. Also, more stages equals more chances for errors, more wear on cutters etc.
I work in engineering, and all these slight cost cutting exercises VS doing the instruments "your way" may mean that every 20th guitar is actually FOC due to the savings (as an example)
I've specced up tooling packages for bar-feed lathes where reducing the width of the parting inserts by 1mm has led to the customer netting an extra component per bar. Meaning that one component is free compared to their initial costings. This calculation may have already been done by FMIC to get us down to the desired cost price.
At the end of the day, 2600 bucks is a huge amount of money to most people, but these are still businesses making an item down to a price for maximum profit. I mean theres a Soloist on Thomann with dot inlays for 9 grand...


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> Just because ESP does it one way doesn't mean everyone else has to follow suit. You realize that there's still people making the same argument about ESPs that you're making about Jackson. "Why don't they offer these cheaper models with the exact same specs as their highest tier?" Choices have to be made to differentiate...Many people will absolutely refuse to buy anything without the ESP logo on it and the E-II logo is a deal breaker or a "step down".
> 
> Also, the case thing has been going on for years. I don't get the argument that everything has to be a hardshell. My mayones bass came in an excellent gig bag, same with my custom guitar from Equilibrium. I ordered a brand new MIJ ritchie kotzen tele about 5 years back for $1500 and it arrived in a cardboard box. Didn't feel ripped off one bit for any of these purchases.


ESP changing the logo to E-II, and keeping the finishes to the more basic ones, is all they've done to differentiate those guitars from the ESP Original series. I get the logo purists, but E-II is the exact same thing as what used to be called the ESP Standard Series. They're not skimping on any hardware there.

The case thing is basically implied messaging. Like, if a guitar is worth keeping, it's worth protecting. So you'll put it in a hardshell. It will be good for life then. Hand it down to your kids or grandkids. I'm also fine with guitars shipping with no case at all (and being priced slightly cheaper), since that gives the owner flexibility to buy the case they like best. Shipping them with gig bags or foam cases though sends an interesting message. Like, yeah, this is a guitar you'll take to gigs and practice and what not, but it's going to get beat up. It's not worth protecting.


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## Perge (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> The case thing is basically implied messaging. Like, if a guitar is worth keeping, it's worth protecting. So you'll put it in a hardshell. It will be good for life then. Hand it down to your kids or grandkids. I'm also fine with guitars shipping with no case at all (and being priced slightly cheaper), since that gives the owner flexibility to buy the case they like best. Shipping them with gig bags or foam cases though sends an interesting message. Like, yeah, this is a guitar you'll take to gigs and practice and what not, but it's going to get beat up. It's not worth protecting.


Or, it's 2022, and most people buying this level of guitar will already have at least one hardshell case they actually use that they can switch out? I remember everyone freaking out because schecter shipped a custom shop to KM in just a box, and he had to tell everyone to chill, he had more cases then he knew what to do with already. 

Sorry, but your second paragraph just reads like some psychological mumbo jumbo your trying to convince others of lol.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 22, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> some crappy cellphone pics
> 
> View attachment 114681
> 
> ...


All-black superstrats sound boring on paper but for some reason a stealthed-out Soloist always looks right


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2022)

Soft cases are the future. That's another thing that just is. 

I'd say like a fraction of a fraction of buyers care about which way the inlays face, or a little binding, or a case, so until the tide turns this is just how it's going to be.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 22, 2022)

...I actually prefer padded soft cases over hardshell cases too.  Much easier to store and carry around. Me getting a PRS SE and getting their soft cases made me realize how fucking awesome they are.

EDIT: I actually had a PRS SE whos box got damaged in shipping, but the case held together like a trooper.


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## jephjacques (Sep 22, 2022)

Semi-soft cases like these Jacksons come in are better anyway. They take up less space and don't weigh as much, and they don't have any tolex to get all fucked up and ratty from use.


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## jephjacques (Sep 22, 2022)

IMO all builders should just use Mono gigbags like Aristides does but I'm sure those aren't cheap


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Perge said:


> Or, it's 2022, and most people buying this level of guitar will already have at least one hardshell case they actually use that they can switch out? I remember everyone freaking out because schecter shipped a custom shop to KM in just a box, and he had to tell everyone to chill, he had more cases then he knew what to do with already.
> 
> Sorry, but your second paragraph just reads like some psychological mumbo jumbo your trying to convince others of lol.


I guess it's a strat shape, so cases are fairly universal. My guitars are effectively all different shapes, so their cases aren't really interchangeable. I also said I don't mind companies shipping guitars without cases. Honestly, that's probably the best approach. We'd probably have a lot more options for nice cases if this were a more common practice.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything though. I'm just stating how I personally interpret a guitar that ships with a gig bag. A gig bag is the shittiest excuse for a case imaginable. If you're walking to a gig, it lets you put the guitar on your back instead of walking around holding it in your hand. Other than that, they're pointless. I have no issue buying a hardshell, but don't bundle a joke of a case with the guitar. If a buy a car, I get no floormats, or the clearly disposable glossy paper dealer ones. I don't get shitty excuses for floormats.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Semi-soft cases like these Jacksons come in are better anyway. They take up less space and don't weigh as much, and they don't have any tolex to get all fucked up and ratty from use.


Yeah, but you can't stack them, or store spare parts and tools in them, or throw them with reckless abandon into a trailer (though maybe don't do that with a Gibson period, even in a hardshell lol).


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Yeah, but you can't stack them, or store spare parts and tools in them, or throw them with reckless abandon into a trailer (though maybe don't do that with a Gibson period, even in a hardshell lol).



I sure as heck can with my Monos.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I sure as heck can with my Monos.


Not super familiar with them, but the cheapest one is $180?! That must be a hell of a gig bag. Costs as much as a Coffin Case lol


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## JimF (Sep 22, 2022)

Because they come with the bonus feature of not being a coffin case.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Fine, fine. Get a TKL like a normal adult. Coffin Cases are hilarious though.
Just look at this thing. What other case would you even think about using for something like a BC Rich Widow? lol


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## jephjacques (Sep 22, 2022)

dude what are you talking about, they stack fine lol


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Not super familiar with them, but the cheapest one is $180?! That must be a hell of a gig bag. Costs as much as a Coffin Case lol



It's more flexible, comfortable, protective, and feature packed than any hardshell case in the same price range or even a bit more. 

I was skeptical too, but I've had a few (two doubles, three singles) for years and I've done a bunch of moving around with them and have full confidence in them. 

I have zero hesitation throwing nearly $10k worth guitars and gear into them regularly. 

GruvGear makes great stuff too. 

Making a really good soft case seems to be much easier than a good hardshell, which few actually are. I own tons of hard cases, and maybe 1/4 are half as good as these higher end soft cases. 

The industry has done a great job convincing folks that a $10 plywood and foam box is worth $200+.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> dude what are you talking about, they stack fine lol


5 guitars in hardshells stacked on top of each other wouldn't worry me. In gig bags? That stack might be a little unstable



MaxOfMetal said:


> It's more flexible, comfortable, protective, and feature packed than any hardshell case in the same price range or even a bit more.
> 
> I was skeptical too, but I've had a few (two doubles, three singles) for years and I've done a bunch of moving around with them and have full confidence in them.
> 
> ...


I think all of the money for wood/tolex hardshells goes into labor. They're certainly made from rather primitive materials compared to those Mono bags. My nicest hardshell is actually plastic though lol. My Martin came with one of these https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C630--martin-c630-case. Very well built, super light, and really rigid (some of the cheaper wood cases flex if you sit something small, but heavy, like a head on top of them).


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> 5 guitars in hardshells stacked on top of each other wouldn't worry me. In gig bags? That stack might be a little unstable
> 
> 
> I think all of the money for hardshells goes into labor. They're certainly made from rather primitive materials compared to those Mono bags. My nicest hardshell is actually plastic though lol. My Martin came with one of these https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/C630--martin-c630-case. Very well built, super light, and really rigid (some of the cheaper wood cases flex if you sit something small, but heavy, like a head on top of them).



Eh, they're pretty cheap to make. The shop I worked for had some made by TKL, who makes a lot of OEM cases, and the wholesale prices were like 1/10th of the distributor cost for the same case with a major manufacturer's name screened on it vs the shops. The rotomolded stuff was about the same price, but started getting cheaper. 

They're all made overseas for peanuts. 

Even G&G is nothing special. It's all name recognition.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, they're pretty cheap to make. The shop I worked for had some made by TKL, who makes a lot of OEM cases, and the wholesale prices were like 1/10th of the distributor cost for the same case with a major manufacturer's name screened on it vs the shops. The rotomolded stuff was about the same price, but started getting cheaper.
> 
> They're all made overseas for peanuts.
> 
> Even G&G is nothing special. It's all name recognition.



My "nice" cases, and the guitars that live in them, because I didn't feel like taking them out. Left to right is G&G, TKL (I think), TKL, SKB. The two on the left feel the most premium, probably just because of the aesthetics, but the two on the right both feel like they provide a lot more protection. I also like how much storage each of these cases have (especially the G&G Fender case). I'll have to keep an eye out for any Mono bags in shops, but, so far, for me, I'm all about hardshells.




EDIT: In case anyone is curious: 2021 Eric Johnson strat, 2020 70s Flying V, 2021 OM-28, 1985 Rhoads Custom


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## eaeolian (Sep 22, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, they're pretty cheap to make. The shop I worked for had some made by TKL, who makes a lot of OEM cases, and the wholesale prices were like 1/10th of the distributor cost for the same case with a major manufacturer's name screened on it vs the shops. The rotomolded stuff was about the same price, but started getting cheaper.
> 
> They're all made overseas for peanuts.
> 
> Even G&G is nothing special. It's all name recognition.


TKL *gave* me the plastic ones when I was an endorser in the early '00s. The margin on that stuff is insane.
Which Mono cases are you using? I have a first world problem (everyone's case is too damn long to not have to go diagonally in the trunk of my Audi  ) I'm trying to solve.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> TKL *gave* me the plastic ones when I was an endorser in the early '00s. The margin on that stuff is insane.
> Which Mono cases are you using? I have a first world problem (everyone's case is too damn long to not have to go diagonally in the trunk of my Audi  ) I'm trying to solve.


I have to fold the seats down in my Tesla to fit most of my cases in the car :/


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## eaeolian (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> I have to fold the seats down in my Tesla to fit most of my cases in the car :/


Not an option when you have a kid and dogs in the back seat.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> Not an option when you have a kid and dogs in the back seat.


Yeah I'd have to get a different car lol. Patiently awaiting the CyberTruck. Will be super nice to just roll a 4x12 into the vault instead of picking a cab up (and no, my current car cannot accommodate a 4x12 lol).


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## possumkiller (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> My "nice" cases, and the guitars that live in them, because I didn't feel like taking them out. Left to right is G&G, TKL (I think), TKL, SKB. The two on the left feel the most premium, probably just because of the aesthetics, but the two on the right both feel like they provide a lot more protection. I also like how much storage each of these cases have (especially the G&G Fender case). I'll have to keep an eye out for any Mono bags in shops, but, so far, for me, I'm all about hardshells.
> 
> View attachment 114738
> 
> ...


I always wondered why the "70s" V has the same 58 headstock as their "67" (non custom shop) reissues had.


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## Viginez (Sep 22, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> All-black superstrats sound boring on paper but for some reason a stealthed-out Soloist always looks right


its sick but too bad it comes with the cheap logo


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## NCASO96 (Sep 22, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> Just got mine, here's my initial out of the box impressions:
> 
> Came well set up and close to in tune (thanks Floyd Rose). Build quality is solid. Fretwork is good. Maybe not to the level of my CS but no high frets or sloppy work there. Rolled fretboard edges feel very, very nice. Fretboard looks good and the reverse inlays don't bother me. Neck profile is definitely thinner than the usual Soloist shape, but not like JP territory or anything extreme. I guess that could be a deal-breaker if you only want the OG Jackson neck shape. The black-on-black look is sick as hell in person. Bridge functions as it should. Pickups are good- I knew what I was expecting with the JB in the bridge but the single coils are also very nice (better than I remember the ones in my old soloist being).
> 
> I'm very pleased with my purchase. It feels like A Good Guitar. Whether it's enough VALUE for your MONEY is pretty subjective but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend one of these to someone who wants a pointy headstock and has $2500 to spend.


if you don't mind me asking... you purchased this at a local shop? or Online?


----------



## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Viginez said:


> its sick but too bad it comes with the cheap logo


The painted logo is old-school correct though


----------



## xzacx (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Yeah I'd have to get a different car lol. Patiently awaiting the CyberTruck. Will be super nice to just roll a 4x12 into the vault instead of picking a cab up (and no, my current car cannot accommodate a 4x12 lol).


Ironic that Cyber Trucks will probably start delivering the around the same time Jackson opens Masterbuilt orders back up.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

xzacx said:


> Ironic that Cyber Trucks will probably start delivering the around the same time Jackson opens Masterbuilt orders back up.


Well, without divulging too much info, I respectfully disagree.


----------



## eaeolian (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> The painted logo is old-school correct though
> View attachment 114739


Yeah, my '88 has that same logo.


----------



## Viginez (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> The painted logo is old-school correct though
> View attachment 114739


i know but no wonder they improved it later


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Sep 22, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Soft cases are the future. That's another thing that just is.
> 
> I'd say like a fraction of a fraction of buyers care about which way the inlays face, or a little binding, or a case, so until the tide turns this is just how it's going to be.



I tend to agree. I have a really nice mono gig bag for when I take a guitar somewhere to jam. All my hard cases collect dust unless I'm moving or I'm shipping a guitar I sold.

The only hard cases I keep accessible are the ones for my oddly shaped guitars like my dimebags, V, or kelly.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Viginez said:


> i know but no wonder they improved it later


Idk if I'd consider the veneer inlay an improvement necessarily. A cool way to show off your fancy new CNC, but all the coolest Jacksons had silk-screened paint logos (or hand-painted ones, like Randy's).


----------



## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I tend to agree. I have a really nice mono gig bag for when I take a guitar somewhere to jam. All my hard cases collect dust unless I'm moving or I'm shipping a guitar I sold.
> 
> The only hard cases I keep accessible are the ones for my oddly shaped guitars like my dimebags, V, or kelly.


Most of mine are odd shaped, so that might also be factoring into why I don't care for bags as much.


----------



## zw470 (Sep 22, 2022)

The headstock is like a perfect storm of things that, on their own, wouldn't be a big deal, but when you combine them all in one place it really looks off-putting.

ETA: Now that I think about it, that's how I feel about the guitar's overall aesthetics, as well. A bunch of cosmetic features I could probably tolerate on their own, but not when they're all present on _one_ guitar.


----------



## possumkiller (Sep 22, 2022)

It's nice that we got this up to 30 pages.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> I always wondered why the "70s" V has the same 58 headstock as their "67" (non custom shop) reissues had.


Because Gibson likes to play with our emotions. Why does it have binding, but no small block inlays? Why aren’t the pickups covered? Why are there mounting rings on top of the pickguard? Why reflectors instead of witch hats? Also, it has fucking 55090 frets (tall & narrow) on it lol.

It’s still a badass guitar. The name, like the “67 reissue” just makes no sense


----------



## gunshow86de (Sep 22, 2022)

Oh wow, Matt Pinfield is still alive. Also some of these riffs are much better than anything I've heard from Suicide Silence.


----------



## Albake21 (Sep 22, 2022)

gunshow86de said:


> Oh wow, Matt Pinfield is still alive. Also some of these riffs are much better than anything I've heard from Suicide Silence.



Damnit I love the green one so much! I know I'll be on the lookout for a used one to hit the market in the near future ;D


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> TKL *gave* me the plastic ones when I was an endorser in the early '00s. The margin on that stuff is insane.
> Which Mono cases are you using? I have a first world problem (everyone's case is too damn long to not have to go diagonally in the trunk of my Audi  ) I'm trying to solve.



Vertigo for singles and Classic for doubles, they've very similar overall, I don't think I'd be super choosey between the two. Just stay away from the Sleeve, it really is just a gigbag.


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## Mathemagician (Sep 22, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> WRONG. NOBODY cares if it was made in America you need to compare the SPECS and realize it's not good VALUE FOR MONEY now go buy an IMPORT because they have VALUE FOR MONEY you're not getting ANYTHING worthwhile with this guitar and because I don't like it means YOU CAN'T EITHER.



It’s like they fail to realize that a lot of buyers at $2k+ aren’t in the “Value/Dollar” camp as much as they move into the “Overall Coolness” camp.


----------



## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Vertigo for singles and Classic for doubles, they've very similar overall, I don't think I'd be super choosey between the two. Just stay away from the Sleeve, it really is just a gigbag.


This thing is like a hardshell's interior, wrapped in nylon



Looks pretty nice. If I see any at a shop, maybe I'll see if my V fits.


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## marke (Sep 22, 2022)

I too prefer a quality gigbag, but actually hardshell cases offer a minor advantage for those living in dry weather conditions: case humidifiers seem to work much better with hard cases. If you've had a fretboard crack due to dry winters, you know. On the other hand, I guess people needing those can just get a separate no-brand hardcase for that


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Sep 22, 2022)

marke said:


> I too prefer a quality gigbag, but actually hardshell cases offer a minor advantage for those living in dry weather conditions: case humidifiers seem to work much better with hard cases. If you've had a fretboard crack due to dry winters, you know. On the other hand, I guess people needing those can just get a separate no-brand hardcase for that



Yea I had a humidifier installed in my house's HVAC because of the dry winters where I live.


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## Stiman (Sep 22, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> It’s like they fail to realize that a lot of buyers at $2k+ aren’t in the “Value/Dollar” camp as much as they move into the “Overall Coolness” camp.



This what I picture when I read this:
“Yeah you may think it’s less cool, given it has less features than the MIJ Jacksons, but it’s MIA so it’s definitely _more _cool. Trust me”


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Stiman said:


> This what I picture when I read this:
> “Yeah you may think it’s less cool, given it has less features than the MIJ Jacksons, but it’s MIA so it’s definitely _more _cool. Trust me”


Coolness is subjective. And not necessarily based on features. A Gibson Custom SG Special Reissue doesn’t have humbuckers or even adjustable intonation, and it’s cooler than any Epiphone ever made to me.

Some people do attach coolness to “made in the home country” though. Like MIJ ESP and Ibanez, or MIA Jackson, BC Rich, Fender, Gibson. That’s probably because companies tend to keep their flagship models in their home country.

In this case, I’m pretty doubtful the Corona production line is building better Jacksons than Fujigen. But Jackson knows that a lot of their customers put MIA Jacksons on a pedestal, so they’re cashing in on it.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Sep 22, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> It's nice that we got this up to 30 pages.


And only one confirmed purchase so far that has nothing but good things to say. 
Once again sso gonna sso lol


----------



## Mathemagician (Sep 22, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And only one confirmed purchase so far that has nothing but good things to say.
> Once again sso gonna sso lol



I just need tiiiiiiiime. House repairs gonna house repair.


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 22, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And only one confirmed purchase so far that has nothing but good things to say.
> Once again sso gonna sso lol


This thread reignited my dormant GAS and I bought something similar does that count


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## 73647k (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Coolness is subjective. And not necessarily based on features. A Gibson Custom SG Special Reissue doesn’t have humbuckers or even adjustable intonation, and it’s cooler than any Epiphone ever made to me.
> 
> Some people do attach coolness to “made in the home country” though. Like MIJ ESP and Ibanez, or MIA Jackson, BC Rich, Fender, Gibson. That’s probably because companies tend to keep their flagship models in their home country.
> 
> In this case, I’m pretty doubtful the Corona production line is building better Jacksons than Fujigen. But Jackson knows that a lot of their customers put MIA Jacksons on a pedestal, so they’re cashing in on it.


I’d definitely be interested to put few a MIJ and MIA Jacksons side by side and compare


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

73647k said:


> I’d definitely be interested to put few a MIJ and MIA Jacksons side by side and compare


Well, it wouldn’t be the first time that one of a US company’s import models was considered better than one of their US models. Wouldn’t even be the first time for Fender lol


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## MetalDaze (Sep 22, 2022)

I’d pick up a blue one if it is available lefty, but I checked with my dealer and no go.


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## MetalDaze (Sep 22, 2022)

I’ll just have to stick with this


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> I’ll just have to stick with this



Pshhh, they couldn't even bother to fill in the inlays, and where the fuck are the pickup rings? This is a terrible value!


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Pshhh, they couldn't even bother to fill in the inlays, and where the fuck are the pickup rings? This is a terrible value!


Only two knobs. Can’t believe the corners they’re cutting these days!


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Sep 22, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Only two knobs. Can’t believe the corners they’re cutting these days!



For real.

Where the fuck is the binding? No one is going to buy a Jackson without binding. 

Maybe if they throw in a hardshell case.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 22, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> For real.
> 
> Where the fuck is the binding? No one is going to buy a Jackson without binding.
> 
> Maybe if they throw in a hardshell case.


A _hard_shell case? With those soft nickel frets? It would just disintegrage.


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## neptoess (Sep 22, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> A _hard_shell case? With those soft nickel frets? It would just disintegrage.


It’s like playing on melted butter. No serious professional would be caught dead playing them


----------



## oremus91 (Sep 23, 2022)

MetalDaze said:


> I’ll just have to stick with this



Time to flip and print...


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## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

Why don't y'all just let people who are loud about expecting better from companies be loud so that y'all can sit quiet and possibly reap some benefits? Who cares if you don't care about SS frets or hard cases, they are objectively better and certainly aren't going to break anyone's bank at these prices


----------



## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Why don't y'all just let people who are loud about expecting better from companies be loud so that y'all can sit quiet and possibly reap some benefits? Who cares if you don't care about SS frets or hard cases, they are objectively better and certainly aren't going to break anyone's bank at these prices


Stainless frets aren’t objectively better though.

And, apparently, though I share the hard case opinion, there are a decent number of people who’d prefer a soft one. It still feels like cutting corners to me, but they could also include no case, and drop the price by whatever the retail price of that foam core case is.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Why don't y'all just let people who are loud about expecting better from companies be loud so that y'all can sit quiet and possibly reap some benefits? Who cares if you don't care about SS frets or hard cases, they are objectively better and certainly aren't going to break anyone's bank at these prices



Y'all are certainly the heros we deserve.


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## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Y'all are certainly the heros we deserve.


I do it for their own good!


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Stainless frets aren’t objectively better though.


They are, though


----------



## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> They are, though


Well, considering there’s at least one pro who specifically seeks out softer fretwire, because modern nickel-silver is harder than what they used in the 50s, I think you should consider more parameters than hardness when it comes to fret wire.

SS frets are likely indistinguishable from highly polished nickel silver frets with regard to feel. But nickel silver loses its polish somewhat quickly, and very few people go through the effort to keep their nickel silver frets constantly polished to a mirror shine. This means there’s a feel difference. Both will feel glass smooth when highly polished, but SS will keep that polish seemingly forever. Most players can probably adjust to it, but if you have a bunch of guitars, and only one with SS, it’s probably going to always feel a little off.

This is the same story as fret size. Are bigger frets objectively better than smaller frets? If so, why is the YJM signature strat like the only guitar shipping with 58118 wire instead of the more common 57110? Why did EVH and Randy Rhoads prefer the vintage-size small frets (43080)?

These are musical instruments. Everything is subjective.


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Well, considering there’s at least one pro who specifically seeks out softer fretwire, because modern nickel-silver is harder than what they used in the 50s, I think you should consider more parameters than hardness when it comes to fret wire.
> 
> SS frets are likely indistinguishable from highly polished nickel silver frets with regard to feel. But nickel silver loses its polish somewhat quickly, and very few people go through the effort to keep their nickel silver frets constantly polished to a mirror shine. This means there’s a feel difference. Both will feel glass smooth when highly polished, but SS will keep that polish seemingly forever. Most players can probably adjust to it, but if you have a bunch of guitars, and only one with SS, it’s probably going to always feel a little off.
> 
> ...


I've never heard anyone bitch about having frets that stay nice forever. I have, however, seen plenty of people seeking reputable techs to maintain or change frets. This may involve shipping off your guitar if no one is around you and paying hundreds of dollars. If the guitar is cheap, this sucks even more. Stainless should be the new standard, especially on high end guitars... I dont care where they are made. Granted i will still buy a guitar with nickel frets as i personally don't wear them down much, i still expect better from companies. 50s fenders are great investments and history pieces, but it ain't the 50s anymore. Stainless all around


----------



## xzacx (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Why don't y'all just let people who are loud about expecting better from companies be loud so that y'all can sit quiet and possibly reap some benefits? Who cares if you don't care about SS frets or hard cases, they are objectively better and certainly aren't going to break anyone's bank at these prices


Because when guitars are being built to price points, I'd prefer better build quality than higher specs. At the high end, sure, I want all those things. But when a line exists to hit a certain price, those are the exact things I'd rather them cut instead of QC checks and things like that. I don't think some of you guys understand how these margins work, like when the cost comparison of a 1000 and OFR come up. Even on things like cars, which are exponentially more expensive than guitars, designers have to fight for a few cents on things like switchgear materials. It sucks, but I'd rather have a great transmission than a crystal shifter.


----------



## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> I've never heard anyone bitch about having frets that stay nice forever. I have, however, seen plenty of people seeking reputable techs to maintain or change frets. This may involve shipping off your guitar if no one is around you and paying hundreds of dollars. If the guitar is cheap, this sucks even more. Stainless should be the new standard, especially on high end guitars... I dont care where they are made. Granted i will still buy a guitar with nickel frets as i personally don't wear them down much, i still expect better from companies. 50s fenders are great investments and history pieces, but it ain't the 50s anymore. Stainless all around


Not everyone thinks that highly polished feel is “nice” though. Also, if your guitar is cheap, it comes with cheap wire anyway (there’s good and bad nickel-silver, just like there’s good and bad stainless), and likely isn’t leveled or crowned very well at the factory anyway. I had two of my sub-$500 guitars leveled, crowned, and polished ($110 each), and it was night and day. Infinitely better than they were brand new.

As for it not being the 50s anymore, you’re right. But I’m really glad that Fender builds guitars with six screw bridges, bent steel saddles, and true single coils. Because real 50s strats are expensive as hell, and I’d hate to be forced to buy one because Fender wants to tell me two point bridges, noiseless pickups, and cast saddles are objectively better.


----------



## cardinal (Sep 23, 2022)

FWIW I definitely fall into the category that SS frets are just objectively better. I don't know the cost difference though. Presumably because it's a harder material it would wear tools faster. 

As for the case, eh. IMHO it's much more convenient to travel with a guitar in a bag. I suppose the case maybe offers more protection (?) but it's not like I want the case slamming into things either and the larger, heavier case actually makes it more likely to happen IME. Can't wear a case over my shoulder or on my back.


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

cardinal said:


> FWIW I definitely fall into the category that SS frets are just objectively better. I don't know the cost difference though. Presumably because it's a harder material it would wear tools faster.
> 
> As for the case, eh. IMHO it's much more convenient to travel with a guitar in a bag. I suppose the case maybe offers more protection (?) but it's not like I want the case slamming into things either and the larger, heavier case actually makes it more likely to happen IME. Can't wear a case over my shoulder or on my back.


I get there are reasons to like/use gig bags. Peeps saying they protect BETTER or equally in most instances are just plain wrong though. But my issue is with a high end guitar, they should ship the best product they can. Soft cases is them cutting costs


----------



## Dr. Caligari (Sep 23, 2022)

I have a Mono gigbag and it's been fine so far but hardcases stack better for sure. I don't see how I need more than one gigbag so I definitely prefer getting hardcases when buying guitars.


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Why don't y'all just let people who are loud about expecting better from companies be loud so that y'all can sit quiet and possibly reap some benefits? Who cares if you don't care about SS frets or hard cases, they are objectively better and certainly aren't going to break anyone's bank at these prices


yeah fender's marketing strategy team is definitely reading this thread, sweat dripping down their faces. one just jumped out the window. they're so fucked


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 23, 2022)

PS I set mine up in drop B and it's _ridiculous_


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> yeah fender's marketing strategy team is definitely reading this thread, sweat dripping down their faces. one just jumped out the window. they're so fucked


Never claimed they were? Don't know what you're getting at here


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> I've never heard anyone bitch about having frets that stay nice forever. I have, however, seen plenty of people seeking reputable techs to maintain or change frets. This may involve shipping off your guitar if no one is around you and paying hundreds of dollars. If the guitar is cheap, this sucks even more. Stainless should be the new standard, especially on high end guitars... I dont care where they are made. Granted i will still buy a guitar with nickel frets as i personally don't wear them down much, i still expect better from companies. 50s fenders are great investments and history pieces, but it ain't the 50s anymore. Stainless all around



Stainless do not last forever. I have XJ stainless on 1 of my guitars, I played it religiously for 5 years (was my only serviceable player) and the frets were noticeably divoted until I got them dressed recently. Yes they are more durable and if money is no object then they're the obvious choice. But on a production line, where money is tight, I'd much rather have nickel frets with good fretwork than stainless with lackluster fretwork


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

Captain Shoggoth said:


> Stainless do not last forever. I have XJ stainless on 1 of my guitars, I played it religiously for 5 years (was my only serviceable player) and the frets were noticeably divoted until I got them dressed recently. Yes they are more durable and if money is no object then they're the obvious choice. But on a production line, where money is tight, I'd much rather have nickel frets with good fretwork than stainless with lackluster fretwork


You are the first person I've ever heard of doing anything to stainless. Sounds like they either are not stainless, or you have the grip of a gorilla. Why would the trade off be better quality nickel fretwork vs shitty work ss? Im betting the workmanship would be the same


----------



## kidmendel (Sep 23, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> PS I set mine up in drop B and it's _ridiculous_


What string gauges you using for that?


----------



## tedtan (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> I get there are reasons to like/use gig bags. Peeps saying they protect BETTER or equally in most instances are just plain wrong though. But my issue is with a high end guitar, they should ship the best product they can. Soft cases is them cutting costs


You want a great case, try a Calton or a Hoffee.


----------



## jephjacques (Sep 23, 2022)

kidmendel said:


> What string gauges you using for that?


bottom 6 strings of a 7 string set, I think it's like a 64-11


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> You are the first person I've ever heard of doing anything to stainless. Sounds like they either are not stainless, or you have the grip of a gorilla. Why would the trade off be better quality nickel fretwork vs shitty work ss? Im betting the workmanship would be the same



If I had to guess I'd say most people with SS frets have a larger stable of guitars, so less likely to wear any particular one down. In which case with multiple guitars I doubt many people are playing any singular guitar enough to wear them down within 5-10 years, whether nickel or stainless.

The tradeoff has to come somewhere. It'll have to come out of labour cost or other component cost. If it comes from labour cost, whether fretwork or otherwise, I'd rather not make that trade. If it comes from component cost, I can't think of any spec on these I'd trade for SS frets, especially for shows/touring.


----------



## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> You are the first person I've ever heard of doing anything to stainless. Sounds like they either are not stainless, or you have the grip of a gorilla. Why would the trade off be better quality nickel fretwork vs shitty work ss? Im betting the workmanship would be the same


You must not have read too far into stainless. Steve Morse wears through stainless enough to need refrets yearly. He needed refrets far more often with nickel silver, though, of course. You don’t need gorilla grip either. If you play a guitar for 100+ hours a month, the frets are going to wear. You level, crown, and dress when this happens, until they get low enough that you need new frets. Stainless doesn’t change this fact, it just lengthens the maintenance intervals. I personally seem to take years to wear nickel-silver to the point that I need to level, crown, and dress though, so one set of stainless frets could, in theory, last me the rest of my life.

As for the tradeoff in fretwork, it’s because stainless is a bitch to work compared to nickel-silver. When the material is almost as hard as your tools, you need to put a lot more oomph and/or time into it. And, on a production line, those are both a lot to ask for. Even with a Plek in the mix, you’re still going to wear through tooling faster, and someone still has to do a final polish by hand.


----------



## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> bottom 6 strings of a 7 string set, I think it's like a 64-11


You like ‘em thick lol. I don’t fuck with drop tunings too often, but 10-46 feels about perfect for C# standard on a Fender scale guitar for me. Might get a little floppy for the low B, so I’d probably move up to 11-50 for drop B.

I’m a wimp though. I use 09-40 in standard, and the heaviest I go is 12-54 for B standard.

My Martin has 12-54 in standard (on a 25.4” scale), but I don’t really bend a lot on acoustic, so they’re comfortable.


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

Wearing through stainless is MUCH MUCH harder to do (i still question the validity of these wearing through statements). Very few cases of it happening. They throw ss on harley bentons so no excuses for premium, modern American made guitars not to have em


----------



## Tree (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Wearing through stainless is MUCH MUCH harder to do (i still question the validity of these wearing through statements). Very few cases of it happening. They throw ss on harley bentons so no excuses for premium, modern American made guitars not to have em


Yes, because Harley Benton is really enforcing their QC and sending out premium instruments. 

As everyone else has already beaten home, design/profit margins have to be established. It’s great that factories churning out more affordable instruments are plopping on SS frets if that’s your game. But here, with the extra detail and attention these are getting it was clearly a decision that it wouldn’t be important or fiscally feasible to do.


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

Tree said:


> Yes, because Harley Benton is really enforcing their QC and sending out premium instruments.


Also, see kiesel


----------



## Tree (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Also, see kiesel


Your point.

^^^^^^^^^

My head.



What do you mean?


----------



## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Wearing through stainless is MUCH MUCH harder to do (i still question the validity of these wearing through statements). Very few cases of it happening. They throw ss on harley bentons so no excuses for premium, modern American made guitars not to have em


I highly doubt they’re putting Jescar stainless on Harley-Bentons. They’re putting “stainless” on them.

As for validity, here you go
Gerry Hayes is a well-respected luthier. Here’s his article about fret wear (and he talks about stainless in it) https://hazeguitars.com/blog/frets-are-consumables

It’s also just common sense. Every material wears, even diamond. For an extreme example, if you use stainless steel strings, your strings are just as hard as your frets. Still better than nickel-silver, where the frets are softer than the plain strings, but there’s no way you believe that stainless steel doesn’t wear at all


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

Tree said:


> Your point.
> 
> ^^^^^^^^^
> 
> ...


Quality usa built guitars all with stainless. Impeccable fret jobs


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

neptoess said:


> I highly doubt they’re putting Jescar stainless on Harley-Bentons. They’re putting “stainless” on them.
> 
> As for validity, here you go
> Gerry Hayes is a well-respected luthier. Here’s his article about fret wear (and he talks about stainless in it) https://hazeguitars.com/blog/frets-are-consumables
> ...


Ok so even so, getting 100x the life out of them is far worth it


----------



## Tree (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Quality usa built guitars all with stainless. Impeccable fret jobs


Ahhhh. Well Kiesel targets a largely different audience. 

Honestly, I’ve never opted for or played stainless equipped Kiesels. Be it my own order, or otherwise. It’s an option, for sure, but I doubt most orders they get even pick it.


----------



## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

Tree said:


> Ahhhh. Well Kiesel targets a largely different audience.
> 
> Honestly, I’ve never opted for or played stainless equipped Kiesels. Be it my own order, or otherwise. It’s an option, for sure, but I doubt most orders they get even pick it.


It's standard on all models


----------



## Tree (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> It's standard on all models


Really? It’s been a while since I checked. Maybe I’m mixing it up with the Evo Gold. I don’t remember mine having stainless, though. They felt pretty standard.

Was this the case back with Carvin? I swear I don’t remember seeing stainless as the standard option always.


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## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Quality usa built guitars all with stainless. Impeccable fret jobs


I'm not sure if something changed since the headstocks said Carvin on them, and I haven't played an American SL3, but a USA Select Jackson is markedly different from a Carvin/Kiesel. Maybe they improved, but they used to use super cheap pots and switches. I remember reading that you should budget to replace all the electronics if you buy a new Carvin, and this couldn't have been more than 10 years ago.


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## mastapimp (Sep 23, 2022)

neptoess said:


> You must not have read too far into stainless. Steve Morse wears through stainless enough to need refrets yearly. He needed refrets far more often with nickel silver, though, of course. You don’t need gorilla grip either. If you play a guitar for 100+ hours a month, the frets are going to wear. You level, crown, and dress when this happens, until they get low enough that you need new frets. Stainless doesn’t change this fact, it just lengthens the maintenance intervals. I personally seem to take years to wear nickel-silver to the point that I need to level, crown, and dress though, so one set of stainless frets could, in theory, last me the rest of my life.
> 
> As for the tradeoff in fretwork, it’s because stainless is a bitch to work compared to nickel-silver. When the material is almost as hard as your tools, you need to put a lot more oomph and/or time into it. And, on a production line, those are both a lot to ask for. Even with a Plek in the mix, you’re still going to wear through tooling faster, and someone still has to do a final polish by hand.


You're misremembering this Steve Morse tidbit. He claimed he upgraded to stainless BECAUSE he was refretting his main signature guitar every couple of years.


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## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

Tree said:


> Really? It’s been a while since I checked. Maybe I’m mixing it up with the Evo Gold. I don’t remember mine have stainless, though. They felt pretty standard.


Yeah since like 2015-ish


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## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

mastapimp said:


> You're misremembering this Steve Morse tidbit. He claimed he upgraded to stainless BECAUSE he was refretting his main signature guitar every couple of years.


Yeah I re-googled. He said his main guitar had been refretted 10 times. EVH said he switched to stainless because he needed to refret every few *months. *But I can't find info on either about how often they needed refrets after switching to stainless


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## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Ok so even so, getting 100x the life out of them is far worth it


It's not 100x if you're comparing quality nickel-silver to quality stainless. Jescar, for example, seems to be the best of the best for both. I would believe they last 5x longer. If it were truly 100x, I don't think we'd have pictures of worn stainless steel frets.


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## mastapimp (Sep 23, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Yeah I re-googled. He said his main guitar had been refretted 10 times. EVH said he switched to stainless because he needed to refret every few *months. *But I can't find info on either about how often they needed refrets after switching to stainless


he discusses his switch to stainless in the first minute of this video:

Words right outta his mouth: "I've worn out 10 sets of frets already...infact, this is a new set of stainless frets that's hopefully gonna last longer."


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## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

neptoess said:


> It's not 100x if you're comparing quality nickel-silver to quality stainless. Jescar, for example, seems to be the best of the best for both. I would believe they last 5x longer. If it were truly 100x, I don't think we'd have pictures of worn stainless steel frets.


99% of guitar players would never have to worry about their frets again


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## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> 99% of guitar players would never have to worry about their frets again


Same with nickel-silver, honestly. 99% of guitar players will never wear through a set of nickel-silver frets.


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## Emperoff (Sep 23, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Same with nickel-silver, honestly. 99% of guitar players will never wear through a set of nickel-silver frets.



And certainly not those on this forum


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## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Same with nickel-silver, honestly. 99% of guitar players will never wear through a set of nickel-silver frets.


Slight anecdote here. I just dropped off my 1985 Jackson at the shop today for fret level, crown, and dress, and detailing. This is a 37 year old guitar, and I just got it last week. Definitely needs fret leveling, because the 20th is so low that the note on 21st is what rings out.
The body is pretty beat, so it's definitely been played. I was suspecting that the frets had never been leveled, because I measured the 22nd fret, under the low E, at .045" H x .080" W. I told the shop owner I was worried I might need to refret this thing when I bought it, because it was so old, and I saw it still had its binding nibs, meaning the frets are original.
He looked at it and laughed. He said the guitar has never even had the frets leveled, and he'd put money on it. He didn't even feel a need to measure it.

So, anecdotal, sure, but my 37 year old nickel-silver frets are just now getting their first level & dress. At this rate, the guitar will be over 100 years old before it needs a refret, and I'll be dead lol.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Sep 23, 2022)

The only guitar I've ever worn through frets on was 14 when I got it and it took 2 years of the most consistent hours I've ever put in to get noticeably dented. During this time it was my only guitar.

Still strongly prefer stainless, but it's not a deal-breaker.


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## trem licking (Sep 23, 2022)

Point is, demand better from a "premium" instrument. That is all


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## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> The only guitar I've ever worn through frets on was 14 when I got it and it took 2 years of the most consistent hours I've ever put in to get noticeably dented. During this time it was my only guitar.
> 
> Still strongly prefer stainless, but it's not a deal-breaker.


I've only personally worn a few guitars to the point that they needed fret work. It took 2-3 years (per guitar), and each guitar retailed for <$500, so I'm pretty sure the wire was whatever cheap, soft junk they could get their hands on


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## neptoess (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Point is, demand better from a "premium" instrument. That is all


Go to a shop and play some Gibson Custom stuff, and tell me it doesn't feel premium in every way, shape, and form. And we can all easily list off numerous "shortcomings" in its feature set. If Gibson isn't your cup of tea, do the same for a Fender Custom Shop, or a Jackson USA/Custom Select, or an -18 or higher series Martin.

Don't get obsessed with premium features. You rob yourself of some of the awesome experiences you can get from guitars with "lesser" features.


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## tedtan (Sep 23, 2022)

trem licking said:


> Quality usa built guitars all with stainless. Impeccable fret jobs


And here I thought it was lack of quality control plus blaming the customer.


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## marke (Sep 23, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> PS I set mine up in drop B and it's _ridiculous_


Hype more if you don't mind? Hows the build? Feel? Best guitar ever?

Would be nice to read some real life experiences.


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## jephjacques (Sep 23, 2022)

I did a post about my thoughts a ways back in this thread. TLDR I love mine, super happy with it. If the aesthetics don't work for you that's fair enough, but the quality is fantastic.


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## 73647k (Sep 23, 2022)

me trying to identify what is important to me in a $2.6k guitar after reading this thread


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## jephjacques (Sep 23, 2022)

the only thing that matters is if u think it looks cool


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## MetalDaze (Sep 23, 2022)

^ Mojo...the answer is always mojo


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## SamSam (Sep 23, 2022)

The green and white models are pretty fucking cool.

But is it black esp m 2 cool? That's the question.

Between these and the JP models I think they offer pretty decent value for EU buyers compared to the custom prices which are absurd.


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## eaeolian (Sep 24, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Idk if I'd consider the veneer inlay an improvement necessarily. A cool way to show off your fancy new CNC, but all the coolest Jacksons had silk-screened paint logos (or hand-painted ones, like Randy's).


If you saw the Jackson CS IG feed yesterday, then you saw them putting the "inlay" in the clearcoat spray. It's so thin it's like a decal, no inlay skills required.


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## neptoess (Sep 24, 2022)

eaeolian said:


> If you saw the Jackson CS IG feed yesterday, then you saw them putting the "inlay" in the clearcoat spray. It's so thin it's like a decal, no inlay skills required.


Not on social media, but you’re 100% right (they’re called “overlays” apparently)





How do they inlay MOP logos on headstocks?? - JCFonline.com


Discussion about set ups, intonation, trem tips, etc..



www.jcfonline.com





Apparently it’s also in multiple pieces. Looks neat, but, like I said before, I like the paint logos better myself


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## CapinCripes (Sep 24, 2022)

As much as I enjoy the MOP logo my dream customs always had the 80s logo


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## couchguitarplayer (Sep 24, 2022)

Played one today out of the box at a local store. It's a nice guitar but I felt underwhelmed overall by the guitar. The MIJ I did a shootout with felt better. The gotoh Floyd is nicer than the 1500 Floyd IMO. I would not pay that Much for this.


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## neptoess (Sep 24, 2022)

couchguitarplayer said:


> Played one today out of the box at a local store. It's a nice guitar but I felt underwhelmed overall by the guitar. The MIJ I did a shootout with felt better. The gotoh Floyd is nicer than the 1500 Floyd IMO. I would not pay that Much for this.


This is the best part about having a local store that gets the nice shit in. I have one near me for Gibson, Fender, and Martin. But no one carries high end Jacksons or ESPs near me


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## possumkiller (Sep 24, 2022)

neptoess said:


> This is the best part about having a local store that gets the nice shit in. I have one near me for Gibson, Fender, and Martin. But no one carries high end Jacksons or ESPs near me


Tell me about it. When I was first starting to play around the turn of the century, I had to join the army and get stationed at fort Carson to be able to go to Denver and check out Japanese Esps. The only shop within reasonable driving distance from my redneck swamp in Florida that even heard of and carried Esp products only had LTDs.


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## neptoess (Sep 24, 2022)

possumkiller said:


> Tell me about it. When I was first starting to play around the turn of the century, I had to join the army and get stationed at fort Carson to be able to go to Denver and check out Japanese Esps. The only shop within reasonable driving distance from my redneck swamp in Florida that even heard of and carried Esp products only had LTDs.


Yup that’s my situation in Northeast Ohio. I’ve never seen any ESP higher than an LTD 1000 series in person. And, until I bought my 85 sight unseen, I had never seen a USA Jackson in person

EDIT: But I can get my hands on $5k+ Gibson, Martin, and Fender any day of the week


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## zw470 (Sep 24, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Yup that’s my situation in Northeast Ohio. I’ve never seen any ESP higher than an LTD 1000 series in person. And, until I bought my 85 sight unseen, I had never seen a USA Jackson in person
> 
> EDIT: But I can get my hands on $5k+ Gibson, Martin, and Fender any day of the week



There used to be (early 2000s) a phenomenal music store in Youngstown (Boardman, really) called New York Music that would have been an SSO dream. Every level of guitar from Jackson, Ibanez, ESP, etc etc. Any amp you could think of, Mesa, Bogner, Diezel, Soldano, Marshall, etc etc. I dunno when they closed, but now the only thing around there is a Guitar Center. So if you want either a $200 Squire or a $4,000 Gibson, they have you covered.


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## neptoess (Sep 24, 2022)

PromptCritical5 said:


> There used to be (early 2000s) a phenomenal music store in Youngstown (Boardman, really) called New York Music that would have been an SSO dream. Every level of guitar from Jackson, Ibanez, ESP, etc etc. Any amp you could think of, Mesa, Bogner, Diezel, Soldano, Marshall, etc etc. I dunno when they closed, but now the only thing around there is a Guitar Center. So if you want either a $200 Squire or a $4,000 Gibson, they have you covered.


Yeah I'm in the Cleveland area, and Guitar Riot is amazing, but they don't carry the more metal-oriented guitars. There's also the Music Farm in Canton, who carry the metal brands, but never seem to have any high end models in store. Other than that, it's just Guitar Center and Sam Ash


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## oracles (Sep 24, 2022)

I actually got to check one out one of the green ones at Rufus Guitars in Vancouver today, and I think Jackson has a hit with these. It felt and sounded fantastic. Fit and finish was great. I played an MJ yesterday, and while I do prefer the Gotoh trem over this, I still think these are a hit, especially at half the price of an SL1/SL2H (at least here in Canada) 

If I hadn't just bought a Stars soloist, I could've very easily been convinced to leave with the green model I played today.


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## xzacx (Sep 24, 2022)

PromptCritical5 said:


> There used to be (early 2000s) a phenomenal music store in Youngstown (Boardman, really) called New York Music that would have been an SSO dream. Every level of guitar from Jackson, Ibanez, ESP, etc etc. Any amp you could think of, Mesa, Bogner, Diezel, Soldano, Marshall, etc etc. I dunno when they closed, but now the only thing around there is a Guitar Center. So if you want either a $200 Squire or a $4,000 Gibson, they have you covered.


That was such a great store. I got my first Jem there. They had so much cool stuff, I remember playing Parkers, N4s, all kinds of cool stuff.


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## neptoess (Sep 24, 2022)

xzacx said:


> That was such a great store. I got my first Jem there. They had so much cool stuff, I remember playing Parkers, N4s, all kinds of cool stuff.


Damn. I’m jealous. The only music gear I bought in the Youngstown area was a Class 5 combo off of a dude on Craigslist. We did meet in the GC parking lot though. Ended up going inside and looking around. Selection was, as expected, garbage.


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## Hoss632 (Sep 24, 2022)

neptoess said:


> This is the best part about having a local store that gets the nice shit in. I have one near me for Gibson, Fender, and Martin. But no one carries high end Jacksons or ESPs near me


Most stores near me carry hardly any Jackson's. If they do it's the super cheap ones and maybe a Mick Thomson. I've been trying to find a Juggernaut for 3 years now to try out and none of the stores here ever have any.


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## neptoess (Sep 24, 2022)

Hoss632 said:


> Most stores near me carry hardly any Jackson's. If they do it's the super cheap ones and maybe a Mick Thomson. I've been trying to find a Juggernaut for 3 years now to try out and none of the stores here ever have any.


I got fed up with the shit selection situation in 2020 when I was stuck at home and wanted another guitar. The local Sam Ash had a no questions asked 45 day return policy (no return shipping or restocking fee either if you brought it back to the store). So I ordered what I wanted, thankfully loved all of it, and kept it.

The issue with doing this for a USA Select Jackson is that they’re considered custom shop / non-returnable.

So that’s my advice there. Find a store with a lenient return policy, and place an order


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## Flappydoodle (Sep 25, 2022)

SS simply isn't an expensive material. Crappy cutlery is made from it, lol.

From Jescar, nickel silver 57110 is $15 and stainless steel is $22. So neither is really "expensive". Certainly not enough to be changing the guitar price in a meaningful way, other than as a marketing point.

So the cost must be the installation time and extra labour time needed. Does anybody have actual numbers for how much longer it takes? Then we see whether SS really is premium, or manufacturers are just skimping...


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 25, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> SS simply isn't an expensive material. Crappy cutlery is made from it, lol.
> 
> From Jescar, nickel silver 57110 is $15 and stainless steel is $22. So neither is really "expensive". Certainly not enough to be changing the guitar price in a meaningful way, other than as a marketing point.
> 
> So the cost must be the installation time and extra labour time needed. Does anybody have actual numbers for how much longer it takes? Then we see whether SS really is premium, or manufacturers are just skimping...



It's harder to work, so your taking more time and effort and you're raising the possibility of rework. 

It's much harder on tools too, so you have to either replace your tools more, or buy better more expensive ones, which you'll still have to replace a bit more often. Specifically files and nippers/cutters. 

I don't think it's possible to get exact numbers on anything, but I don't see a way for them to not be more expensive in a factory setting. 

I don't think it's as simple as "skimping" but more of weighing the additional cost vs. impact on sales. 

Remember, most guitar players don't even know that different frets exist. So the number of potential lost sales for fret material is probably minimal.


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## zw470 (Sep 25, 2022)

Flappydoodle said:


> SS simply isn't an expensive material. Crappy cutlery is made from it, lol.
> 
> From Jescar, nickel silver 57110 is $15 and stainless steel is $22. So neither is really "expensive". Certainly not enough to be changing the guitar price in a meaningful way, other than as a marketing point.
> 
> So the cost must be the installation time and extra labour time needed. Does anybody have actual numbers for how much longer it takes? Then we see whether SS really is premium, or manufacturers are just skimping...



I know it's not an entirely apples to apples comparison, but SS frets are a $25 upgrade from Warmoth on a neck without binding, and a $70 upgrade on a neck with binding.



MaxOfMetal said:


> Remember, most guitar players don't even know that different frets exist. So the number of potential lost sales for fret material is probably minimal.



And I bet a significant amount of the players who _do _know, don't care.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 25, 2022)

PromptCritical5 said:


> I know it's not an entirely apples to apples comparison, but SS frets are a $25 upgrade from Warmoth on a neck without binding, and a $70 upgrade on a neck with binding.



Because hardened steel files absolutely obliterate binding if you're not careful. Ask me how I know.


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## xzacx (Sep 25, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Damn. I’m jealous. The only music gear I bought in the Youngstown area was a Class 5 combo off of a dude on Craigslist. We did meet in the GC parking lot though. Ended up going inside and looking around. Selection was, as expected, garbage.


There was actually a second New York Music location too in the Niles/Warren area, which was super close to me and much easier to get my parents to give me a ride to hahah. It was a lot smaller, but they still had great stuff of the era. I specifically remember playing a bunch of ESP signatures like different KHs and Kamikazes there.


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## neptoess (Sep 25, 2022)

xzacx said:


> There was actually a second New York Music location too in the Niles/Warren area, which was super close to me and much easier to get my parents to give me a ride to hahah. It was a lot smaller, but they still had great stuff of the era. I specifically remember playing a bunch of ESP signatures like different KHs and Kamikazes there.


This reminded me that, apparently, ESP won’t do the banana headstock on custom builds anymore, only Lynch sigs.

But yeah, neither Warren nor Boardman are super close to Cleveland, but I’d definitely make the drive for a store that had badass guitars like that in stock.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 25, 2022)

neptoess said:


> This reminded me that, apparently, ESP won’t do the banana headstock on custom builds anymore, only Lynch sigs.
> 
> But yeah, neither Warren nor Boardman are super close to Cleveland, but I’d definitely make the drive for a store that had badass guitars like that in stock.



ESP says they won't do this or that, but if you have the cash and happen to be in Japan they tend to be a heck of a lot more flexible.


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## neptoess (Sep 25, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> ESP says they won't do this or that, but if you have the cash and happen to be in Japan they tend to be a heck of a lot more flexible.


Yeah but do you need to go to Japan to place the order and take delivery? Or will they ship overseas? If you don’t live in Japan, the travel cost and possible issues importing it to your home country might make the difference between a shape they offer and the banana quite expensive.


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## nedheftyfunk (Sep 25, 2022)

neptoess said:


> I highly doubt they’re putting Jescar stainless on Harley-Bentons. They’re putting “stainless” on them.
> 
> As for validity, here you go
> Gerry Hayes is a well-respected luthier. Here’s his article about fret wear (and he talks about stainless in it) https://hazeguitars.com/blog/frets-are-consumables
> ...


Not saying they're high QC guitars or anything, but HBs get their SS fret wire from a company that appears to also service a lot of big brands:

http://www.blacksmithstrings.com/guitar/fretwires/index.jsp


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## neptoess (Sep 25, 2022)

nedheftyfunk said:


> Not saying they're high QC guitars or anything, but HBs get their SS fret wire from a company that appears to also service a lot of big brands:
> 
> http://www.blacksmithstrings.com/guitar/fretwires/index.jsp


Interesting. I've legitimately never heard of these guys, but they claim to supply just about every mainstream guitar manufacturer. What's interesting is that Jescar also claims supply some of these same manufacturers...

Anyone here ever use (or hear of) Blacksmith fret wire?


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 25, 2022)

neptoess said:


> Interesting. I've legitimately never heard of these guys, but they claim to supply just about every mainstream guitar manufacturer. What's interesting is that Jescar also claims supply some of these same manufacturers...
> 
> Anyone here ever use (or hear of) Blacksmith fret wire?



Probably because until fairly recently they only sold directly to Asian guitar OEMs like Cortek and Samick. 

Their parent company, DHP Korea, is a large conglomerate that makes all kinds of stuff, like pipe fittings, valves, pressure vessels....and frets.


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## gunch (Sep 25, 2022)

Dumbass question: Is fretwire extruded?


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## neptoess (Sep 25, 2022)

gunch said:


> Dumbass question: Is fretwire extruded?


Either extruded or drawn, though I’m not positive which

EDIT: It could also be rolled


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## soul_lip_mike (Sep 25, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> ESP says they won't do this or that, but if you have the cash and happen to be in Japan they tend to be a heck of a lot more flexible.


Man, If I could buy an MX 250 in person new I’d consider flying to Japan to do so.


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## Stiman (Sep 25, 2022)

As a labelled complainer, I actually got a chance to try one out today. This store (Long & mcQuade) has tons of Squier, Fender, Epiphone, Gibson, and almost nothing else. But much to my surprise, they had one of these Jacksons ($3,200 CAD).

This was a green one, which I was glad because I was really curious how this colour would look in person. I was very impressed with the finish, it felt really high quality, probably the best satin finish I’ve ever seen in person.

The fit and finish was absolutely flawless. Not a single blemish, perfect low action. It definitely struck me as heavy, but honestly I don’t care much about weight. So that’s not a bad thing in my book. General fit and finish was better than all the Gibson LPs I tried today.

Hard to describe the neck profile. Felt great, not Ibanez super Wizard thin. It’s probably similar to the DK2M I used to have. Painted neck, as you all know, but felt fast so no complaints there.

I plugged it into a Revv G20 + Marshall 2x12. Sounded good but I was never a fan of the JB in a super strat, so I would change those out if it were mine.

Overall, pretty great guitar honestly. If I were to get one, I 100% would get green, because of how unique it looked and felt.

Do I still think it’s overpriced? Yeah. Feels like it could be a tad cheaper. Used, I would consider it. Too bad I couldn’t compare it to a MIJ. Definitely a solid guitar, and if you’re a Jackson fanboy, I could see this being a must buy.

Edit:
I forgot to mention, the bridge tuners felt sticky/rusty kinda thing. Wasn’t pleasant trying to use them to tune. I’m sure some lube or oil would fix that up.

Also, I couldn’t tell if the frets were actually SS. They felt the same as any other nickel frets I’ve ever played. I certainly couldn’t feel a difference.


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## neptoess (Sep 25, 2022)

Stiman said:


> As a labelled complainer, I actually got a chance to try one out today. This store (Long & mcQuade) has tons of Squier, Fender, Epiphone, Gibson, and almost nothing else. But much to my surprise, they had one of these Jacksons ($3,200 CAD).
> 
> This was a green one, which I was glad because I was really curious how this colour would look in person. I was very impressed with the finish, it felt really high quality, probably the best satin finish I’ve ever seen in person.
> 
> ...


They’re nickel-silver frets. Fine tuners not moving smoothly on a new trembis a thing for sure (I think it’s mostly on the black finish, not gold or chrome), but it usually remedies itself. If not, like you said, some vaseline fixes it


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## LCW (Oct 1, 2022)

Played one today at my local shop. VERY nice! I may get one if I sell some other stuff. Neck felt pretty killer. Thinner (thickness) than typical Jackson but feels right for the genre. Not Ibanez thin but thinner than some Jacksons and Charvels I’ve owned.


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## Mathemagician (Oct 1, 2022)

neptoess said:


> You like ‘em thick lol. I don’t fuck with drop tunings too often, but 10-46 feels about perfect for C# standard on a Fender scale guitar for me. Might get a little floppy for the low B, so I’d probably move up to 11-50 for drop B.
> 
> I’m a wimp though. I use 09-40 in standard, and the heaviest I go is 12-54 for B standard.
> 
> My Martin has 12-54 in standard (on a 25.4” scale), but I don’t really bend a lot on acoustic, so they’re comfortable.




Man, am I weird? I use a 50 for the low E on a 25.5 guitar. 10-50 for e standard.


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Oct 2, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> Man, am I weird? I use a 50 for the low E on a 25.5 guitar. 10-50 for e standard.


No. Lots of people like thicker wound strings and a lighter unwound.


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## Church2224 (Oct 2, 2022)

Mathemagician said:


> Man, am I weird? I use a 50 for the low E on a 25.5 guitar. 10-50 for e standard.



I use to use 11-52s on my E standard tuned guitars, now I use 11 - 48s. Nothing weird there I like heavier strings.


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## Hollowway (Oct 2, 2022)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> No. Lots of people like thicker wound strings and a lighter unwound.


Yeah, I used to use the EB Hybrids for that reason. (Though, I can't go above .009s for high strings on a 25.5 because I'm too weak to bend them, lol.)


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## eaeolian (Oct 3, 2022)

zw470 said:


> I know it's not an entirely apples to apples comparison, but SS frets are a $25 upgrade from Warmoth on a neck without binding, and a $70 upgrade on a neck with binding.


That's recent. When I ordered an unbound neck a year ago from them it was still $110.


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## MASS DEFECT (Oct 6, 2022)

This is just probably a 1 in 100 qc thing. Hopefully not widespread.


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## marke (Oct 6, 2022)

Sucks, but probably not an exception. Production guitars are garbage these days.. lots of people still get good ones, but the pressure in supply chain for all industries is so big, that the quality cannot be _ensured. _Sure, most of the guitars in this price bracket might be ok, but they should ALL be ok. I've seen bad prestiges (had same issue with tremposts, got a replacement FOC), e-iis (sloppy finishing, worse than LTD, but nothing was done), Gibson (horrible binding)..

Just my take on it, not a fact by all means. Just kinda fed up with the current horsedoo. Maybe they've always been like this and I've just been lucky previously.. idk.


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## Dumple Stilzkin (Oct 6, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> This is just probably a 1 in 100 qc thing. Hopefully not widespread.



What a turd. Needs to edit his video down big time. Sucks he got a lemon, but it happens. He thinks he is the “last Jackson fanboy”, mmm kay.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 6, 2022)

I ain't watching that.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Oct 6, 2022)

I want back the 5 minutes of my life he took to get to the damn point.

Also the attitude is insufferable. Some mis-drilled stud holes and he's all "I went to bat for Jackson how dare they do this to me" "I don't wanna exchange I wanna be MAD"


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## Dr. Caligari (Oct 7, 2022)

I mean I can identify with the feeling that guy expresses. I also really want to like Jackson but it's frustrating when they make that so difficult. Can't say I'm surprised to see this kind of issue.


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## NCASO96 (Dec 1, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> Yes. to all your questions.
> 
> The internet isn't a real place pal, don't take yourself so seriously.
> 
> ...





DiezelMonster said:


> I don't discount that, not at all. I'm definitely one of those people as well.
> But I've seen a lot of criticism about these guitars and my only real qualifier is, what is the percentage of those people complaining have had the guitar in their hands?


I finally "put my money where my mouth is" and bought one of these guitars.... I'm very impressed and I owe you an apology for contesting so strongly.

I will say the guitar needs a few tweaks for my liking (noisy neck SC) but... the build quality is fantastic. The neck through construction is superior. The fit and finish is very impressive.

Sure I wish it were a bit cheaper... but its a fantastic playing and sounding guitar at this price point.

Best,


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## cardinal (Dec 1, 2022)

So has everyone who's bought one worn down those basic nickel frets yet?

JK. These still look awesome.


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## DiezelMonster (Dec 1, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> I finally "put my money where my mouth is" and bought one of these guitars.... I'm very impressed and I owe you an apology for contesting so strongly.
> 
> I will say the guitar needs a few tweaks for my liking (noisy neck SC) but... the build quality is fantastic. The neck through construction is superior. The fit and finish is very impressive.
> 
> ...


No worries dude! Glad you got one and enjoy it. I still think they are awesome!

What colour did you get?


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## NCASO96 (Dec 1, 2022)

DiezelMonster said:


> No worries dude! Glad you got one and enjoy it. I still think they are awesome!
> 
> What colour did you get?


haha. The Rivera Blue! Gorgeous guitar! Feels Top Quality all around.


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## DiezelMonster (Dec 1, 2022)

NCASO96 said:


> haha. The Rivera Blue! Gorgeous guitar! Feels Top Quality all around.


Awesome, congrats. that is my favourite colour of the bunch,

Hopefully they bring out some more colours, like Ferrari red


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## jonsick (Dec 2, 2022)

marke said:


> Sucks, but probably not an exception. Production guitars are garbage these days.. lots of people still get good ones, but the pressure in supply chain for all industries is so big, that the quality cannot be _ensured. _Sure, most of the guitars in this price bracket might be ok, but they should ALL be ok. I've seen bad prestiges (had same issue with tremposts, got a replacement FOC), e-iis (sloppy finishing, worse than LTD, but nothing was done), Gibson (horrible binding)..
> 
> Just my take on it, not a fact by all means. Just kinda fed up with the current horsedoo. Maybe they've always been like this and I've just been lucky previously.. idk.


Man I get slammed on here for saying the same thing. It is true though.

Just whatever you do, do not defame the name of the Hardly Ben Tonnes. That gets you a real ass kicking! All hail the Glenn Fricker brand of the day!


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## Samark (Dec 2, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> This is just probably a 1 in 100 qc thing. Hopefully not widespread.




"I am heartbroken, disappointed and extremely upset". Get a grip.

YouTube is full of (poor) guitar players who spend more time "reviewing" gear than actually playing. This guy's no exception.


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## TheInvisibleHand (Dec 2, 2022)

That guy has been in a hyperbolic chamber for a few minutes too long.


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## DiezelMonster (Dec 2, 2022)

Samark said:


> "I am heartbroken, disappointed and extremely upset". Get a grip.
> 
> YouTube is full of (poor) guitar players who spend more time "reviewing" gear than actually playing. This guy's no exception.


It almost sounds like Jackson came and shot his dog in front of him.


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## jephjacques (Dec 2, 2022)

cardinal said:


> So has everyone who's bought one worn down those basic nickel frets yet?
> 
> JK. These still look awesome.


mine caught fire and exploded because I was shredding so hard the (NON STAINLESS STEEL!!!!!) frets melted


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## jephjacques (Dec 2, 2022)

real talk my one complaint is that I prefer screw-in rather than push-in trem arms. trem still works great though.


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## cardinal (Dec 2, 2022)

jephjacques said:


> mine caught fire and exploded because I was shredding so hard the (NON STAINLESS STEEL!!!!!) frets melted


Figures. Sorry Jackson made such a POS.


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## jephjacques (Dec 2, 2022)

yeah it only plays just as well as the PRS I just bought for twice the price. whatta ripoff


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## Wiltonauer (Dec 2, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> This is just probably a 1 in 100 qc thing. Hopefully not widespread.




I’m glad he is reasonable enough with his expectations that he doesn’t demand a lowly import guitar have the trem posts installed straight. It’s certainly beyond the novice builders at a place like FujiGen to get that right when they are slapping together a $3,000 J Custom.


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## ClownShoes (Dec 3, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> This is just probably a 1 in 100 qc thing. Hopefully not widespread.



So they got the post angle wrong instead of the whole floyd route being off-center.

Jackson are slowly getting there


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## Wiltonauer (Dec 3, 2022)

ClownShoes said:


> So they got the post angle wrong instead of the whole floyd route being off-center.
> 
> Jackson are slowly getting there


This was probably sixteen, seventeen years ago, but I once saw a brand new USA Select Soloist hanging in a dealer’s showroom with the whole TOM and neck so far out of alignment that the high E was riding along the edge of the frets, waiting to fall off with every note. What a shame, too, since the fit and finish and maple top were beautiful apart from that. It was so close to being a great guitar, but it was ruined. The one next to it was perfect and even more striking, and I ended up buying it.


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## Church2224 (Dec 3, 2022)

Wiltonauer said:


> This was probably sixteen, seventeen years ago, but I once saw a brand new USA Select Soloist hanging in a dealer’s showroom with the whole TOM and neck so far out of alignment that the high E was riding along the edge of the frets, waiting to fall off with every note. What a shame, too, since the fit and finish and maple top were beautiful apart from that. It was so close to being a great guitar, but it was ruined. The one next to it was perfect and even more striking, and I ended up buying it.



This is why I am excited about this new American series. The USA Selects and Custom shop stuff has been so hit and miss and some of the issues they have had made some of the guitars almost unplayable. These on the whole have been pretty consistent quality which is great.


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## tedtan (Dec 3, 2022)

Church2224 said:


> This is why I am excited about this new American series. The USA Selects and Custom shop stuff has been so hit and miss and some of the issues they have had made some of the guitars almost unplayable. These on the whole have been pretty consistent quality which is great.


Was that really that common, though, or just a couple of incidents that were blown out of proportion on the internet?


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 4, 2022)

tedtan said:


> Was that really that common, though, or just a couple of incidents that were blown out of proportion on the internet?



There were a couple fairly big fails, like wrong fret count, in a short time span, and there are much smaller "oops" kind of builds that pop up like wrong inlays/material or wood choice, and then the usual level of custom shop static like color matches that don't turn out just right. 

The idea that the JCS is some sort of roulette as far as what comes out is just internet hype by folks who don't really order these kinds of guitars at any real frequency. 

I mean for awhile I was checking out ever CS Jackson I could get my hands on and they're really still amazing guitars at least 95% of the time. 

Folks have this notion in their heads that some of these large legacy shops are entirely faultless, and when the inevitable bad build comes up they just way over-compensate by making a big deal of it all. 

I can be picky as shit when it comes to quality stuff and I'd still order a Jackson in a heartbeat if I could get the Masterbuilt I want. Someday they'll open up again. Right?


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## Kyle Jordan (Dec 4, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I can be picky as shit when it comes to quality stuff and I'd still order a Jackson in a heartbeat if I could get the Masterbuilt I want. Someday they'll open up again. Right?



We can only hope. 

That said, I’m kind of putting up a mental defense of “3+ year wait, $12K for an 8 string 24 fret King Kelly with no cutouts” in my mind if they start taking Masterbuilt orders again anytime soon. 

I might be getting ready to sell one of my Soloists to buy another Aristides, but I will own a made for me custom shop Jackson at some point in my life. I’ve wanted one since I was 11.


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## Church2224 (Dec 4, 2022)

I remember a time when I got a USA Select SL2H with sloppy glue around the frets and various finish flaws. I sent it back for another one and that one had issues with little chips of ebony out of the fretboard and other finish flaws. I later order a B7 Deluxe and that had a crack in the ebony fretboard from the 24 to 16 frets. I returned that one too. 

That said I have played and owned some great USA Jacksons, (And the USA Charvels I have are Incredible) however Carvin / Kiesel and Jackson are two companies I have experience the most "Hit and Miss" models I have owned. I also own / have owned Schecter USA, Suhr, PRS, ESP/E-II/LTD, Charvel USA and Pro Mod, Gibson, Fender, Vola, ect. And have had better luck. 


When Jackson makes a good guitar, it's a DAMN good guitar. This could be my experience and luck, but I do hope they get it together...


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## cardinal (Dec 4, 2022)

Church2224 said:


> I remember a time when I got a USA Select SL2H with sloppy glue around the frets and various finish flaws. I sent it back for another one and that one had issues with little chips of ebony out of the fretboard and other finish flaws. I later order a B7 Deluxe and that had a crack in the ebony fretboard from the 24 to 16 frets. I returned that one too.
> 
> That said I have played and owned some great USA Jacksons, (And the USA Charvels I have are Incredible) however Carvin / Kiesel and Jackson are two companies I have experience the most "Hit and Miss" models I have owned. I also own / have owned Schecter USA, Suhr, PRS, ESP/E-II/LTD, Charvel USA and Pro Mod, Gibson, Fender, Vola, ect. And have had better luck.
> 
> ...


I'm pretty surprised my the variability in guitars, or their QC. I have bought a bunch of ESPs recently. Original Series, USA, and E-II. They've all been a bit hit or miss. The good ones are phenomenal. Some of the not so good ones just had a bit dodgy fretwork but otherwise are fine and that was easily fixed. But one of the ones I had was an absolute disaster that thankfully I was able to return.


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## tedtan (Dec 4, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There were a couple fairly big fails, like wrong fret count, in a short time span, and there are much smaller "oops" kind of builds that pop up like wrong inlays/material or wood choice, and then the usual level of custom shop static like color matches that don't turn out just right.
> 
> The idea that the JCS is some sort of roulette as far as what comes out is just internet hype by folks who don't really order these kinds of guitars at any real frequency.
> 
> ...


That’s what I was thinking. (And I do remember that 23 fret guitar).


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## ThomasUV777 (Dec 7, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There were a couple fairly big fails, like wrong fret count, in a short time span, and there are much smaller "oops" kind of builds that pop up like wrong inlays/material or wood choice, and then the usual level of custom shop static like color matches that don't turn out just right.
> 
> The idea that the JCS is some sort of roulette as far as what comes out is just internet hype by folks who don't really order these kinds of guitars at any real frequency.
> 
> ...



I've managed to roll snake-eyes three times with the JCS:

* First order didn't match color nor top
* Second attempt on this guitar they left the back natural while it had to be stained

* Foolishly I made another attempt for a completely new order. After a couple of questions from the dealer and the Jackson sales rep, I got an answer back today (after waiting for over 2 months on the quote) to let me know that the color I wanted (Emerald Green) is not available anymore. 

Don't worry, I blame myself at this point.


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 7, 2022)

ThomasUV777 said:


> I've managed to roll snake-eyes three times with the JCS:
> 
> * First order didn't match color nor top
> * Second attempt on this guitar they left the back natural while it had to be stained
> ...



Paint is weird. 

For something so essential, it's pretty crazy how non-standardized it is, even at these big legacy shops. 

There are recipe cards, but they're old and they still need to be mixed by hand and eye by the painter, who doesn't have access to every color on hand, and pretty much wings it a lot of the time. Certain low volume colors are a nightmare when you've never sprayed it before, which happens.

This isn't unique to Jackson though. When I worked at the shop, I'd say 90% of custom shop orders that required returns or refunds or redos were finish related. 

Not diminishing what you had to deal with at all.


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## Kyle Jordan (Dec 7, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There are recipe cards, but they're old and they still need to be mixed by hand and eye by the painter, who doesn't have access to every color on hand, and pretty much wings it a lot of the time. Certain low volume colors are a nightmare when you've never sprayed it before, which happens.


I always wondered if this was the case. 

Take Black Cherry. 

I love the USA Jackson and 90’s Japanese Jackson/Charvel Black Cherry metallic. I think the one Warmoth does is pretty similar. But then you get a solid Black Cherry from places like ESP, Schecter, or Tom Anderson, or Suhr, even Fender, and they’re all different. Then looking through places like House Of Kolor and the shades are there, just with different names.


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 7, 2022)

Kyle Jordan said:


> I always wondered if this was the case.
> 
> Take Black Cherry.
> 
> I love the USA Jackson and 90’s Japanese Jackson/Charvel Black Cherry metallic. I think the one Warmoth does is pretty similar. But then you get a solid Black Cherry from places like ESP, Schecter, or Tom Anderson, or Suhr, even Fender, and they’re all different. Then looking through places like House Of Kolor and the shades are there, just with different names.



There's a lot more to it than ordering the color from HoK or something, especially for stuff like candy, flake, metallic, and absolutely anything transparent.


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## marke (Dec 9, 2022)

Got my Am SL3 today. Initial impression is off the charts playability, few small tooling marks on the fretboard (visible only against strong light) and the nut is very very slightly more on the bass side. Is this common? When I play the guitar I don't notice it and strings seem to be in line.

Anyway, it is not perfect as per above, but seems like a pretty good guitar for the money given the current prices. Still haven't decided if I will keep it, but it is tempting as I haven't played a guitar that feels better to play. Fast, thin neck, with a soft and almost non-resonant touch. Feels like butter with 0 resistance.


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## marke (Dec 10, 2022)

Here's a picture btw. Looks like a return right?


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## MaxOfMetal (Dec 10, 2022)

marke said:


> off the charts playability






marke said:


> When I play the guitar I don't notice it





marke said:


> Looks like a return right?


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## marke (Dec 10, 2022)

MaxOfMetal said:


>


I though this was a guitar forum  While admittedly great here, playability is not a very good metric in higher-end priced guitars. It's to be expected. I haven't tried indonesian Jacksons, maybe they play just as well if they have same neck profile and radius? Personally I'm looking to pay for build quality at this price point. Much like E-II vs OS. A brand where I have more experience with. Many of them play the same, but OS has smaller chance of quality issues IME.

I kinda expect US made guitar be better in quality terms vs Indo.


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## ThomasUV777 (Dec 10, 2022)

marke said:


> playability is not a very good metric in higher-end priced guitars



Wait, you considered it to be a pretty good guitar for the money given the current prices. It has great playability. What's the issue here? The slight offset? Not even an issue if it plays so great.


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## marke (Dec 10, 2022)

ThomasUV777 said:


> Wait, you considered it to be a pretty good guitar for the money given the current prices. It has great playability. What's the issue here? The slight offset? Not even an issue if it plays so great.


Yeah, I think I'm done explaining myself after this post  People gonna take things black/white it seems.

But if you want an analogy - you buy a high-end computer monitor that is otherwise great, but has a dead pixel in the mid. Some people are bothered by it, but will not notice it while playing games or watching Netflix. They can still be bothered by it, spending ton of money on something that doesn't meet expectations. Some people are not bothered by it at all because the practical implications are close to zero, and keep the monitor.

I already said in my first post it's not perfect and have not yet decided if I keep it. Guitar can be a good one and have a quality defect at the same time. I'm simply trying to figure out if it bothers me enough as it doesn't seem to affect playability. It is still a clear defect in a high-end guitar. If this was 2nd hand I would not give a flying f.

Thomann has probably slim chances to get a replacement. If they had multiple in the warehouse, I would like a perfect specimen of the same guitar. Some people wouldn't. That's their money and guitar.


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## Dr. Caligari (Dec 10, 2022)

What if you send it back and get one where you can't fault the nut but that one doesn't sound as good? Worth it?

I literally can't even see the issue but it's up to you how to handle it.


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## cardinal (Dec 10, 2022)

marke said:


> Here's a picture btw. Looks like a return right?
> View attachment 118057


Do you accidentally push the low E off the fretboard somewhat frequently? 

If not and it otherwise plays well, I'd just keep it. But if you do find yourself constantly pushing that string over the edge, then I would do something about it I guess. 

Either return it or fill and redrill the nut.


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## Viginez (Dec 10, 2022)

marke said:


> Got my Am SL3 today. Initial impression is off the charts playability, few small tooling marks on the fretboard (visible only against strong light) and the nut is very very slightly more on the bass side. Is this common? When I play the guitar I don't notice it and strings seem to be in line.


the trem route could be off centre too, or the trem/trem posts
personally i would send it back


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## marke (Dec 10, 2022)

Viginez said:


> the trem route could be off centre too, or the trem/trem posts
> personally i would send it back


Trem side is fine, and strings match bridge hum poles, but tuning stability wise.. I've had better floyds. Not bad, not great.


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## Metaldestroyerdennis (Dec 10, 2022)

I've returned guitars for less and kept guitars with worse.


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## Dr. Caligari (Dec 10, 2022)

Yeah the trem being off does almost nothing for the first few frets but shows up more fret 12 and up. Should always be checked though.

If the strings even line up over the pole pieces I would be quite happy haha. Seems pretty impressive... for a Jackson.


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## ClownShoes (Dec 10, 2022)

Why do people keep making excuses for Jackson


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## Dr. Caligari (Dec 11, 2022)

ClownShoes said:


> Why do people keep making excuses for Jackson



I think for me it's more about adjusting expectations than making excuses.

Like if I buy a Jackson I expect it to be a complete piece of shit so then if it's just a little bit shit I'd be like I'LL TAKE IT.

(I wouldn't buy a Jackson but IF I did.)


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## Edika (Dec 11, 2022)

Not sure if you can relax the screws a bit and move the nut towards the treble side and retighten. If not you can return it of course for another


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## narad (Dec 11, 2022)

I would not return that.


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## RevelGTR (Dec 11, 2022)

If you look close enough there are no flawless guitars - if the guitar plays, sounds, and looks great you should keep it. 

When I was 19 I had a Fender Johnny Marr Jaguar that was absolutely magical. I played it every day, recorded an EP with it, the whole nine yards. Then I noticed the drunken side dots. I literally sold my beloved Jag purely because of the fucked up side dots 

I did get another one though, and it actually had straight side dots! It kinda sucked otherwise though, it was 10oz heavier and not nearly as bright and resonant. It didn’t last long.


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## xzacx (Dec 11, 2022)

This issue is the type of thing that makes me just wonder what we're doing here exactly. If you're buying production line instruments as collectors pieces, sure, I guess I can see a small case for returning it. And there's nothing wrong with that—no judgement from me—people can buy whatever they want for whatever reason they want it. But if you're buying it to play/record/use, I can't imagine returning it with you having said you "haven't played a guitar that feels better to play." Maybe I'm just a lot less picky than some when it comes to these things, if something plays as it should. I have guitars I've owned for years and never examined this closely.


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## Viginez (Dec 11, 2022)

we could maybe examine it better if we had the whole fretboard pictured
i doubt that gap could be corrected only be moving the nut a bit


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## cardinal (Dec 11, 2022)

The issue isn't the gap really but the alignment over the frets: the low E is rather close to where the fret starts to bevel and might slip over the edge too easily. 

I agree that there really are no truly flawless guitars. There's always something wrong. I laugh that no one hates guitars more than I do despite me having a house full of them.


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## marke (Dec 11, 2022)

Viginez said:


> we could maybe examine it better if we had the whole fretboard pictured
> i doubt that gap could be corrected only be moving the nut a bit


Sorry, but it is almost impossible to photograph as there is no light around here and the guitar is black. But maybe you can see that the pickup pole pieces align on the humbucker (not a big indicator of anything, but they do.) but on the neck pickup they start to misalign. Again not an issue itself, but hints that the nut is not installed correclty. From the 2nd picture it is pretty obvious. The nut is slightly narrow so there is space on both sides, but less on the E side, and quite a bit on the e side.






xzacx said:


> This issue is the type of thing that makes me just wonder what we're doing here exactly. If you're buying production line instruments as collectors pieces, sure, I guess I can see a small case for returning it. And there's nothing wrong with that—no judgement from me—people can buy whatever they want for whatever reason they want it. But if you're buying it to play/record/use, I can't imagine returning it with you having said you "haven't played a guitar that feels better to play." Maybe I'm just a lot less picky than some when it comes to these things, if something plays as it should. I have guitars I've owned for years and never examined this closely.


It is for playing, not for collecting.



cardinal said:


> The issue isn't the gap really but the alignment over the frets: the low E is rather close to where the fret starts to bevel and might slip over the edge too easily.
> 
> I agree that there really are no truly flawless guitars. There's always something wrong. I laugh that no one hates guitars more than I do despite me having a house full of them.


It doesn't slip during playing. I think E looks to be closer to the edge in many guitars as it is thicker  Not this much tho.


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## cardinal (Dec 11, 2022)

If you really love everything about it other than this and it's not causing any playability problems, I'd keep it. 

The strings look centered over the 24th fret, which means the bridge is corrected placed and is a much bigger deal IMHO. This is the first thing I look at in pictures when I'm thinking of buying a guitar. It's amazing how often the alignment is terrible.


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## RevelGTR (Dec 11, 2022)

Strongly considering pulling the trigger one of these, anyone else have experiences positive or negative?


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## kmanick (Dec 12, 2022)

that alignment looks ok to me, if the high E string is coming over the inside edge of the neck pickup "E" string magnet you should be fine.
I've lost count of how many Jacksons I walked away from for that issue alone.
I was at the Axe Palace this week and spoke to Victor, he said the QC on these is steps up better than anything he's seen from Jackson for a while
they have a green one in now but they've already moved a bunch of them.


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## marke (Dec 12, 2022)

kmanick said:


> that alignment looks ok to me, if the high E string is coming over the inside edge of the neck pickup "E" string magnet you should be fine.
> I've lost count of how many Jacksons I walked away from for that issue alone.
> I was at the Axe Palace this week and spoke to Victor, he said the QC on these is steps up better than anything he's seen from Jackson for a while
> they have a green one in now but they've already moved a bunch of them.


Well, there are quite a few things that are good with the guitar. No doubt about that. It just wasn't the perfect specimen I hope it would be. Still pondering what to do..
I guess I'm gonna try and see if loosening/retightening the nut does something.


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## Kyle Jordan (Dec 12, 2022)

marke said:


> Well, there are quite a few things that are good with the guitar. No doubt about that. It just wasn't the perfect specimen I hope it would be. Still pondering what to do..
> I guess I'm gonna try and see if loosening/retightening the nut does something.



If the nut is still bothering you to the point you haven't decided to keep the guitar with all of the other positives, return it. 

This seems like it's going to be one of those issues that you always come back to. A "you can't unsee it" type of deal.


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