# Is there a 7-string with a short scale?



## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

I'm looking at the Rickenbackers and some are 20" and 24 fretters.

I have a Schecter Spitfire-6 which is, I think, 24" scale and love it's shortness, minus 2 frets. It'd be great as a 7.


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## mnemonic (Oct 11, 2007)

warmoth makes a 25" scale neck, and then theres that epiphone les paul 7, which i am fairly certain is a 24.75" scale. i believe epiphone may have also made a seven string V at one point too that was also 24.75" scale


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## D-EJ915 (Oct 11, 2007)

the Epiphone 7s are 24.75" scale


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## B Lopez (Oct 11, 2007)

Xtremevillan said:


> I have a Schecter Spitfire-6 which is, I think, 24" scale and love it's shortness, minus 2 frets. It'd be great as a 7.



24.75; it's too cramped. 

I own one too.


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

I remember, I think it's awesome!

If they moved down the pickups and added 2 frets, I'd be happy.


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## tonyhell (Oct 11, 2007)

fghnj


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

True. I wouldn't mind it in a 6 / 24 fret either.


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## bostjan (Oct 11, 2007)

You want a _shorter_ scale?!?

US BC Riches are 25.4" and Warmoths, as someone mentioned are 25".

I don't get it. I want CRUSHING TONE OF SEVEN STRINGS JAM WITH ME NOW!!11!1!!!one1!!1!!

Moll seven strings are 24.625" (I think Gibson is actually supposed to be 24.625", too) along with many other jazz box sevens.


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

bostjan said:


> You want a _shorter_ scale?!?
> 
> US BC Riches are 25.4" and Warmoths, as someone mentioned are 25".
> 
> ...



Shorter scales are easier to move on.


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## bostjan (Oct 11, 2007)

Xtremevillan said:


> Shorter scales are easier to move on.



 Jam?! ... with me? ...now?! 

Hey, to each his own. It's just that the low B kinda needs the room to breathe IMO. But that's just my ears.

I always thought it was easier to move on a longer scale. 

What about a custom seven with a very light fret fan? Maybe 625-655mm? Or something like that? The low B would have a little beef to it, but the treble strings would be like a Les Paul?


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

To each his own, correct, but I think when you have an item and 24 sections to move within, the shorter version of the item would be easier to manuever.


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## bostjan (Oct 11, 2007)

Xtremevillan said:


> To each his own, correct, but I think when you have an item and 24 sections to move within, the shorter version of the item would be easier to manuever.



But historically, scale lengths have gotten longer and longer over the centuries, even though technology has given us more accurate ways of positioning. 

Now, if you wanted to do a short scale seven with a high A string, that'd be pretty cool. 

I guess I don't shift my position as frantically as you guys or something. 

So what about a more drastic multi-scale guitar that goes from 570-630 mm?


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

Really? You don't play solos that go across the fretboard?

For rhythm I think it's also good, Necrophagist's Epitaph is easier to play on the Spitfire over the Hellraiser.


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## bostjan (Oct 11, 2007)

My solos usually don't go up and down more than once or twice, unless I'm doing some arpeggios or an octave jump, but even then, I don't cover more than 19 frets in a phrase. If I need to jump more than seven frets, I usually take a look at what I'm doing to see if there is an easier fingering. The only way there is not is if I'm doing some silly >3 octave arpeggio or a multioctave jump.


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

Well, Epitaph's rhythm goes from 8 on the 1st string to 1 on the 6th string. (right after the sweep)

H/P on the 5th string, 3 and 7. 

Eh, it's just easier for me.

I need an RG7321, I've gassed for a cheap Ibanez fixed.


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## bostjan (Oct 11, 2007)

Well, that's part of the reason I got a seven. I don't have to do 1 on the 6th, I can play 6 on the 7th instead. 

How much would one be willing to pay for a short scale guitar? And how short would said guitar need to be?

Could one simply clamp a capo on said guitar's 3rd fret?!


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

Oh no, I wouldn't pay for it. First off, I'd get decapitated here for buying something while saving for an Agile--the only thing I'd buy (besides gas) is a car, and fuck anyone who critisizes me for buying a car over a guitar.

If you tuned down 1.5 semitones and clapped a capo, perhaps, but it would be impractical--you'd still have the same tone at the 5th fret, so you'd have to move that up to the 8th fret. 

Shortness? A 24.75 inch would be great. I have a ton of space between pickups on my Spitfire.










not my picture, it's from eBay. Also I have EMG-Hz's which rawk

But yes, so much space. Shift that down half an inch and you get omg 2 frets!


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## bostjan (Oct 11, 2007)

1.5 semitones?

What do you mean so much space?


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

Assuming you have a 24 fretter, look at your pickups. Put your fingers between the pickups and start to fingerpick.

If you're like me, your thumb is over a pickup, and/or your pinky. (just tried it now and turns out both were over)

On the Spitfire 6, there's room for every finger, which is why I kept it until now--the Hz in the front is EXTREMELY bassy and dulls the treble-y tones in the upper frets. Combined with no scratching of pickups = win!


The short scale, I'm assuming, lead to this huge gap. If it were a 24 fret, it'd be like my Hellraiser. Or something.

There's more Schecters like this, I just gotta find them.


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## bostjan (Oct 11, 2007)

I see. So 1.5 semitones? What do you mean same tone? I'm just trying to get on the same page.

So this guitar would be for metal?


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 11, 2007)

Well, it would be used for anything. I use the Hellraiser for metal, jazz, blues and classical.


What you were saying is just put a capo on the third fret. I think I misinterpreted your post. No, you can't put a capo on the third fret--Necro uses 0, 1, and 2 frequently. Ignore whatever else I said.


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## tonyhell (Oct 11, 2007)

ghj


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## yevetz (Oct 12, 2007)

Some of Dean 7 string guitars is 24.75" too


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## Shreddy Krueger (Oct 12, 2007)

I liked the shorter scale on my Epi Goth 7 Les paul...
It was kinda diffrent, guess that's why I liked it.

I suppose if you have huge Steve vai fingers it might be a problem though..


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## Desecrated (Oct 12, 2007)

Get some luthier to make you a custom neck, apophis on this site does some 23# necks for his 9 string and such.


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## SnowfaLL (Oct 12, 2007)

Xtremevillan said:


> Well, it would be used for anything. I use the Hellraiser for metal, jazz, blues and classical.
> 
> 
> What you were saying is just put a capo on the third fret. I think I misinterpreted your post. No, you can't put a capo on the third fret--Necro uses 0, 1, and 2 frequently. Ignore whatever else I said.



think he meant tune your guitar to A standard (ADGCFAD) then put a capo on the 2nd fret.. Thats what I plan on doing for my 27", cause I wanna be able to switch between A and B tunings fast


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 12, 2007)

Oh, I see. Necro uses D standard, so I'd have to tune lower...C standard.


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## Nick (Oct 12, 2007)

tbh i dont see there being a great difference when you break it down. 

the only way you could notice a difference is if you shortened the scale to an unusable length for a guitar. Even if you went to 24'' or 23'' the action of moving your arm and hand from one end of the neck to the other would be pretty much identical difficulty wise. a couple of inches in a movement of that sort would be a highly marginal differece .


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## Apophis (Oct 12, 2007)

Yes you have right, difference isn't as big, but if you compare to standard 25,5" guitars. But with comparision with baritome scales like 27" up difference is big. Also the shorter scale heps with shredding using big intervals at low position (from 1st to 6th fret). If you have small hands is way better to use shorter scales. But if you play using only higher positions when soloing I personally think bigger scales like 25,5 and up are better, because frets are not so near 

Also with my 23" 9 string I have to use strings from 008 - highA to .110 - lowF to have nice tension. With my next ERG (10 string 30") I will have way lighter gauges.

So it's always matter of choice and personal needs.


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## Jeff (Oct 12, 2007)

Anything smaller than a 25" is too small for a 7 string, IMO. Too friggin' cramped. I think more companies should go to 26, 26.5, or 27" scales, because for intonation and tonality, the extended scale is awesome.


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## Xtremevillan (Oct 12, 2007)

I'm only 5'7".

That'd be...so big.

Heck, my Hellraiser is big, and I'm getting a 26.5 inch scale 7 string in a few days.


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## Desecrated (Oct 12, 2007)

Apophis said:


> Yes you have right, difference isn't as big, but if you compare to standard 25,5" guitars. But with comparision with baritome scales like 27" up difference is big. Also the shorter scale heps with shredding using big intervals at low position (from 1st to 6th fret). If you have small hands is way better to use shorter scales. But if you play using only higher positions when soloing I personally think bigger scales like 25,5 and up are better, because frets are not so near
> 
> Also with my 23" 9 string I have to use strings from 008 - highA to .110 - lowF to have nice tension. With my next ERG (10 string 30") I will have way lighter gauges.
> 
> So it's always matter of choice and personal needs.


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## Jeff (Oct 12, 2007)

Xtremevillan said:


> I'm only 5'7".
> 
> That'd be...so big.
> 
> Heck, my Hellraiser is big, and I'm getting a 26.5 inch scale 7 string in a few days.



I'm 5'7 too.....height has little to do with scale.


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## bostjan (Oct 12, 2007)

from 24.625" to 25.5", it's less than an inch difference, I don't see how height could make such a huge difference. As far as extended scale lengths, like 27" or 28.625", there are some scientific reasons to increase the scale length on a seven string guitar, as those differences are enough to make the guitar easier to intonate and the strings have clearer upper partials, due to the added length and added tension.

Shortening the scale length will round out the overall tone of the treble strings, so that their upper partials are less clear, something a lot of classic rock-influenced guitarists would prefer, but as far as the fidelity of the tone, it only decreases with scale length.

I will be the first to admit, though, that 24.625" feels different and sounds different, but that difference is subtle, and mainly due to the combination of tension and length working together. I couldn't stand having .009"s on my Les Paul. But after years of playing and listening, I see that just about any strings sound crisper on my 25.5" guitars. Maybe only a thimble full of tone, but we are guitarists, so that thimble of tone is very important.

That's why I say go for a multi-scale. It's the best way to get clear lows and mellower highs in your raw tone. It's also a more expensive way to go, but if you're concerned enough to get a 22" or 23" scale guitar custom-built, ...


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## rockskate4x (Apr 28, 2014)

ok, so inharmonicity and stuff... that's cool. Sorry if i'm necrobumping an old thread, but i googled this same question out of my my own curiousity, because i play as low as drop Bb all the time on my epiphone with 24.75 ish (probably shorter) scale and i really like it, and would really love to extend seven strings up with alternate tunings from C/B/Bb. So i'd love more answers to the original question. The only ones i know of are a few of the single cut ibanez sevens and a limited edition gibson explorer seven and the matt heafies.


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## celticelk (Apr 28, 2014)

Depends on how short you want. The PRS SE 7 is 25", as is the Carvin CT7/CT74. If you want actual Gibson-scale 24.75" 7s, the Heafy is your best current-production option, I think; I'd add the Ibanez AX7521 to the discontinued models already mentioned.


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## rockskate4x (Apr 29, 2014)

Oh man! How could i forget about the PRS! This is especially good news for me because i cannot seem to jam comfortably with most single cut guitars. I prefer a long upper horn for strap placement. Carvins also look solid, but i don't like TOM's or floyds, and the carved top probably wouldn't accommodate a normal hardtail bridge well (i'm not holding my breath for an option 50).

shorter scale with mahogany always sounded awesome to me in the C-Bb range, so a short mahogany seven for higher tunings sounds like a dream machine to me right now.


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## 7stg (Apr 29, 2014)

I would love to see a short scale 7. Sure, a longer scale would be better for tone with lower inharmonicity and all, but they would be great for teaching kids where a longer scale would be too much but they can reach the 7th string easily. An Ibanez mikro7 would be great.


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## celticelk (Apr 29, 2014)

rockskate4x said:


> Oh man! How could i forget about the PRS! This is especially good news for me because i cannot seem to jam comfortably with most single cut guitars. I prefer a long upper horn for strap placement. Carvins also look solid, but i don't like TOM's or floyds, and the carved top probably wouldn't accommodate a normal hardtail bridge well (i'm not holding my breath for an option 50).
> 
> shorter scale with mahogany always sounded awesome to me in the C-Bb range, so a short mahogany seven for higher tunings sounds like a dream machine to me right now.



Also: Agile's (semi-)custom ordering has options for shorter scales on 7-strings on several models. There might be something there you'll like, although not liking TOMs probably rules out a couple of suggestions I'd make.


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## Orandje (Apr 29, 2014)

GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
The business concernes extended range mostly in baritone area because of the demand, so you won't ever see a big company doing a shortscale ERG. You have to go Custom.
Schecter experiments so much that you could maybe reach one, but that's mainly luck.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 29, 2014)

Xtremevillan said:


> To each his own, correct, but I think when you have an item and 24 sections to move within, the shorter version of the item would be easier to manuever.



That's relative to the size and positioning of your hand as you move. Fretboard radius will also play a role in this matter.


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## Konfyouzd (Apr 29, 2014)

Orandje said:


> GOOD LUCK WITH THAT.
> The business concernes extended range mostly in baritone area because of the demand, so you won't ever see a big company doing a shortscale ERG. You have to go Custom.
> Schecter experiments so much that you could maybe reach one, but that's mainly luck.



You mean like Gibson and Fender who both released 7s?


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## technomancer (Apr 29, 2014)

Going to leave the thread open as there are obviously still guys that want to talk about this. Cleaned up posts by guys with nothing useful to say other than "ZOMG NECROBUMP" 



Konfyouzd said:


> You mean like Gibson and Fender who both released 7s?



And PRS, and Carvin and etc


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## celticelk (Apr 29, 2014)

My bad - the Carvin CT7/CT74 is actually 25.5".


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Apr 29, 2014)

D-EJ915 said:


> the Epiphone 7s are 24.75" scale



Beat me to it. Dean also makes a Les Paul-esque 7 with a Gibson scale IIRC


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## TIMEwaveXERO (Apr 30, 2014)

24 3/4"


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## ZXIIIT (Apr 30, 2014)

Ibanez ARZIR27 - 25"
Ibanez ARZ307 - 25"
Ibanez AX7221 - 24.75"
Ibanez AX7521 - 24.75"

(did not notice the necro-ness, lol)


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## Edika (Apr 30, 2014)

Well since it's necro'd already I'll add:

Gibson Explorer 7 - 24.75" (discontinued though)
Epiphone Les Paul Matt Heafy 7 - 24.75"


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## cardinal (Apr 30, 2014)

Capo on the first fret of an RGD2127 puts you near 24.75" inches for the remaining frets. Capo on the second fret (or third, etc.) gets you even shorter scale lengths. You obviously start losing frets as you do that (capo at the first fret, you essentially have a 24.75" scale guitar with 23 frets, like some custom shop Jacksons!), but if you just gotta have the frets jammed up together and don't want to order a completely custom guitar, using a capo like this might be your best bet.


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## celticelk (Apr 30, 2014)

cardinal said:


> Capo on the first fret of an RGD2127 puts you near 24.75" inches for the remaining frets. Capo on the second fret (or third, etc.) gets you even shorter scale lengths. You obviously start losing frets as you do that (capo at the first fret, you essentially have a 24.75" scale guitar with 23 frets, like some custom shop Jacksons!), but if you just gotta have the frets jammed up together and don't want to order a completely custom guitar, using a capo like this might be your best bet.



...and all of your fret markers are in the wrong position, and you've shifted the relative position of your pickups. That will actually matter to some people.


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## loqtrall (Apr 30, 2014)

Wow, 7 year old Necro.

I'd love a shortscale 7, if I could play it first to see how comfortable it is. I absolutely adore my 24 3/4" S Classic, if it was a 7, I'd probably shit.


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## s4tch (Apr 30, 2014)

^S-Classics had a 25" scale length. Anyway, those necks are comfy for sure.

I second the AX7521, or even the 7221 if someone is looking for a cheap short scale 7-string. Just don't tune too much below A...


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## celticelk (Apr 30, 2014)

s4tch said:


> I second the AX7521, or even the 7221 if someone is looking for a cheap short scale 7-string. Just don't tune too much below A...



You can get 7221s from GC's used site for under $150 pretty much anytime. 7521s are a little harder to come by, but also findable online.


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## troyguitar (Apr 30, 2014)

My Agile custom AL-7 is 24.75" scale, works nice for standard with 10-46+60.


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## celticelk (Apr 30, 2014)

rockskate4x said:


> Oh man! How could i forget about the PRS! This is especially good news for me because i cannot seem to jam comfortably with most single cut guitars. I prefer a long upper horn for strap placement. Carvins also look solid, but i don't like TOM's or floyds, and the carved top probably wouldn't accommodate a normal hardtail bridge well (i'm not holding my breath for an option 50).



OK, to summarize: given your preference for extended-upper-horn double-cutaways without TOMs or Floyds, this is probably your useful list of options:

Agile ST custom (available in 24" and 24.75" scales as well as the standard 25.5" )
Agile Septor custom (available in 24.75" scale with through-body bridge)
PRS SE 7 (25")

Or have someone build you a fully-custom instrument, of course.


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## GuyB (May 2, 2014)

Probably already been said, but, IMHO, there's too little tension in the strings and above the 14th fret there's no space for my finger tips.


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## rainbowbrite (May 5, 2014)

Xtremevillan said:


> Shorter scales are easier to move on.



The problem is that they don't innotate properly with lower tunings and tend to sound like garbage.


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## Grindspine (May 5, 2014)

cardinal said:


> Capo on the first fret of an RGD2127 puts you near 24.75" inches for the remaining frets. Capo on the second fret (or third, etc.) gets you even shorter scale lengths. You obviously start losing frets as you do that (capo at the first fret, you essentially have a 24.75" scale guitar with 23 frets, like some custom shop Jacksons!), but if you just gotta have the frets jammed up together and don't want to order a completely custom guitar, using a capo like this might be your best bet.


 
I think that is one of the reasons that I am so comfortable with the RGD. I am used to 24.75" at Eb on my main six string guitar.


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## celticelk (May 5, 2014)

rainbowbrite said:


> The problem is that they don't innotate properly with lower tunings and tend to sound like garbage.



The doom guys who are playing in B and lower on 24.75" Les Pauls and SGs might disagree with that position.


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## rainbowbrite (May 5, 2014)

celticelk said:


> The doom guys who are playing in B and lower on 24.75" Les Pauls and SGs might disagree with that position.


Did that in my youth with my SG. Longer scale lengths are better.


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## technomancer (May 5, 2014)

rainbowbrite said:


> The problem is that they don't innotate properly with lower tunings and tend to sound like garbage.



Yep that innotation on short scales is a bitch...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 5, 2014)

celticelk said:


> The doom guys who are playing in B and lower on 24.75" Les Pauls and SGs might disagree with that position.



Well yeah, doom bands usually have the muddiest sound in the world.


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## celticelk (May 5, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Well yeah, doom bands usually have the muddiest sound in the world.



It's definitely not djent, but that's not the aesthetic of doom, is it? I've certainly heard doom bands playing shorter-scale guitars in B or lower that I would not characterize as "muddy", much less as "garbage," as rainbowbrite says.


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## 7stg (May 10, 2014)

7stg said:


> I would love to see a short scale 7. Sure, a longer scale would be better for tone with lower inharmonicity and all, but they would be great for teaching kids where a longer scale would be too much but they can reach the 7th string easily. An Ibanez mikro7 would be great.



I figured out how to handle this, A regular sized guitar with a capo and they can grow into it. Putting the capo at the 2nd or 4th frets keeps the fret markers in the familiar place. Getting thicker strings and tuning down keeps the guitar in the correct tuning when capoed.


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