# Arch Enemy at the moment



## ArtDecade (May 22, 2017)

I know they just got off the road after a long time touring behind the new album, but I am kinda bummed. Most of the band (old and new) are touring and recording as Black Earth - AND - Alissa signed a record deal to do a solo album. That all said, I was really hoping that they would turn their attention back to the studio and get in there with Jeff Loomis. I know Jeff has the opportunity to pick and choose his projects in the meantime, but I have to admit that I am excited to see the direction Arch Enemy takes with his songwriting and playing. Oh well, I guess I am just being impatient.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 22, 2017)

Are Black Earth still touring? I thought it was just a few shows in Japan last year? From what Sharlee said back in March, the album is still on track for September. They even started recording and writing for it. 

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/sh...ng-arch-enemy-album-will-reek-of-jeff-loomis/


----------



## dax21 (May 22, 2017)

They just announced the new album, Loomis didn't write anything.
Shame.

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/arch-enemy-to-release-will-to-power-album-in-september/


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 22, 2017)

dax21 said:


> They just announced the new album, Loomis didn't write anything.
> Shame.
> 
> http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/arch-enemy-to-release-will-to-power-album-in-september/



Welp, he's been Holt'd.

Chalk this up as another boring mallcore death metal album.


----------



## ArtDecade (May 22, 2017)

No Loomis input except for solos, huh? Kinda a bummer.


----------



## dax21 (May 22, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Welp, he's been Holt'd.
> 
> Chalk this up as another boring mallcore death metal album.




Ehh I expect a logical continuation of the previous two albums - mostly mid tempo downtuned heavy metal with way too many power beat parts with mediocre melodies. 

To be frank I am not too keen on Loomis's trademark diminished noodling but I really expected him and Amott to compliment and balance each other nicely, breathing some much needed fresh air into the band.


----------



## MetalZan (May 22, 2017)

ArtDecade said:


> No Loomis input except for solos, huh? Kinda a bummer.


with all respect to the bandies, i doubt they could handle playing to most of the stuff jeff could write, he is like the arch mage of fretboard wizardry.

still though it is a shame... jeff is a wicked player and its too bad they didnt include him in the song writing process.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (May 23, 2017)

"Amott told Rock Hard magazine in January that Loomis  who was the main songwriter in his former band NEVERMORE  has not contributed to the songwriting on the group's new disc."

That confirms the suspicions that Loomis was only hired on by management to further push the band's image. Its a shame since songs like Psalm of Lydia would have fit perfectly into Arch Enemy's catalogue. 

Here comes another album of Ammott's extremely boring riffs, leads and lyrics. I can't believe this is the band that made Wages of Sin. The last few albums have been packed full of B side material so Loomis's input could really have shook things up again.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (May 23, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Welp, he's been Holt'd.
> 
> Chalk this up as another boring mallcore death metal album.



More like Chris Broderick-ed. As in his Megadeth run. 

Oh well... he's getting paid and touring the world. Don't feel too bad for him.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 23, 2017)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> More like Chris Broderick-ed. As in his Megadeth run.
> 
> Oh well... he's getting paid and touring the world. Don't feel too bad for him.



I say Holt'd because Gary Holt has a history of writing amazing thrash songs, but was held back because the band leader (Kerry in Slayer) said no. 

Likewise, Jeff Loomis has a history of writing amazing progressive/thrash/death metal songs, but was held back because the band leader (Michael in AA) said no. 

Not to change the topic, but Chris, by the accounts I've heard, seems like a  songwriter. I wasn't wow'd by his new band at all.

And I mean, I'm not bummed for Jeff at all. He seems to have no problem playing solos and relatively easy rhythm parts. It's just as a fan of AA's first 4 albums (the Johaan era + Wages of Sin), I'm ....ing bummed it's going to be another boring modern Michael Amott-lead snoozefest.


----------



## ArtDecade (May 23, 2017)

Amott and Loomis should have made for an awesome songwriting department - a perfect combination of the technical and the melodic. The news that Loomis is just noodling is far from what I was hoping for... Seems like a missed opportunity.


----------



## cwhitey2 (May 23, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Not to change the topic, but Chris, by the accounts I've heard, seems like a  songwriter. I wasn't wow'd by his new band at all.



Trying not to change it either, but I think he's probably the most over rated song writer ever. Not taking away from his technical prowess, but literally everything I have from his writing sucks IMO 



Back on topic. I kind of figure that's what his role would be in AA. You have one of the best guitarists in the world in your band and you don't let him contribute   

He must be or _should_ be making bank money wise then


----------



## TheShreddinHand (May 23, 2017)

So I get that Loomis is getting steady pay by being in Arch Enemy, and it seems that Nevermore isn't reforming anytime soon. But with the resume Loomis has, why couldn't he form his own new band with cherry picked members and strike out on his own? Maybe he's cool with being a hired gun and wants the steady check, but damn, this man has written more great 7 string riffs and leads than just about anybody. Really want to hear his own creations again!

(Secretly I just want Nevermore back together.)


----------



## CreptorStatus (May 23, 2017)

While it is a shame that Loomis didn't do any of the song writing on the new record, i guess i must be in the minority. I felt the last Arch Enemy record was pretty good and feel they are one of the only melodic death metal bands who have actually stuck to their guns and not pulled an In Flames or drowned their songs in clean vocals.


----------



## MFB (May 23, 2017)

ArtDecade said:


> No Loomis input except for solos, huh? Kinda a bummer.



Can't wait to hear the same diminished arpeggios he's been using since Dead Heart In a Dead World


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (May 23, 2017)

If I were Loomis, I would be happy to get a check for touring with AE and keep all the tasty songs I write for my own endevours.


----------



## Mathemagician (May 24, 2017)

Hey look another Loomis solo "one diminished arpeggio forever". I wouldn't mind AE having a bit more technical riffs, but they're a metal band with mid tempo songs and VERY "rock" solos. It's their sound, and I'm glad they're not changing it up too much. If Loomis wants to write a ton of stuff for another project great. I just don't want to trade hummable solos for a borderline out of key sounding shredfest. $0.02. 

I don't buy AE albums for guitar virtuosity.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (May 24, 2017)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I say Holt'd because Gary Holt has a history of writing amazing thrash songs, but was held back because the band leader (Kerry in Slayer) said no.
> 
> Likewise, Jeff Loomis has a history of writing amazing progressive/thrash/death metal songs, but was held back because the band leader (Michael in AA) said no.
> 
> ...



Ahhhh... I see your point. 

Broderick won't win any Grammy's for song writing. I concur. But he's a monster player.


----------



## DLG (May 24, 2017)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> If I were Loomis, I would be happy to get a check for touring with AE and keep all the tasty songs I write for my own endevours.



Anyone ever consider the fact that Loomis can't write good songs without Warrel? 

He can write shred albums that showcase his playing, but there's probably a reason why he hasn't put together a "vocal" band yet, because he's not really good at actually writing songs and needs to find a situation where he has chemistry with a singer or someone else who can actually put a good tune together.


----------



## p0ke (May 24, 2017)

I read some interview with Jeff sometime ago where he said he did throw in a few ideas but wasn't sure whether they'd get used or not. Maybe his ideas will get used more later if he stays in the band. I guess pretty much everyone on this forum hopes so.

I liked the previous album though, but Khaos Legions and Rise of the Tyrant... not so much. They felt too cheesy somehow. War Eternal has some cheese on it too, but for some reason it doesn't bother me the same way...


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (May 24, 2017)

DLG said:


> Anyone ever consider the fact that Loomis can't write good songs without Warrel?
> 
> He can write shred albums that showcase his playing, but there's probably a reason why he hasn't put together a "vocal" band yet, because he's not really good at actually writing songs and needs to find a situation where he has chemistry with a singer or someone else who can actually put a good tune together.



This was my biggest problem with post Nevermore Loomis. Actually, I'd go as far as he going full technician after Dead Heart, ok, Godless Endeavour had it's moments but it was less about strong songs and more about full blown shredfest for guitarists to ogle at. 

Which is a shame, because this "could've" given both Loomis and Michael Amott some sort of creative re-energising. Give Amott could give Loomis some boundaries, direction and focus, and Loomis can give Amott some new ideas other than doing the same tired songwriting Arch Enemy has done since Burning Bridges. Wages Of Sin was decent but then deteriorated onwards. 

Oh well, I guess we'll just get 'another' Arch Enemy album...


----------



## MFB (May 24, 2017)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> [...] other than doing the same tired songwriting Arch Enemy has done since Burning Bridges. Wages Of Sin was decent but then deteriorated onwards.
> 
> Oh well, I guess we'll just get 'another' Arch Enemy album...



I feel like with Angela they had a different flavor than the Johann discs, almost a second wind, but it was over by Doomsday Machine - which is fine IMO, since there's still about five solid A.E. CDs at that point.


----------



## ArtDecade (May 24, 2017)

DLG said:


> He can write shred albums that showcase his playing, but there's probably a reason why he hasn't put together a "vocal" band yet, because he's not really good at actually writing songs and needs to find a situation where he has chemistry with a singer or someone else who can actually put a good tune together.



Not sure about that... If you listen to his solo albums, I can almost hear Dane singing over it. If anything, his solo stuff sounds like Nevermore without vocals.


----------



## Draceius (May 24, 2017)

ArtDecade said:


> Not sure about that... If you listen to his solo albums, I can almost hear Dane singing over it. If anything, his solo stuff sounds like Nevermore without vocals.



His second solo album sounds fantastic and the songs he did with Christine Rhoades sound better than a lot of Nevermore did to me, maybe it's because I can't stand Warrel but I really did prefer a different vocalist with him.

Also so many comments about Loomis's solos being only diminished arpeggios, have half of you only heard river dragon? I know he likes to whore out phygian dominant and harmonic minor a lot but he does have a lot of tasty licks, like this guest solo (I didn't realise it was him at first) https://youtu.be/-t1WX9WXQZg?t=18m59s


----------



## Zalbu (May 24, 2017)

I doubt Loomis joined Arch Enemy to express his deepest creative endeavors, if he did he could just make more solo albums or another album with Keith Merrow or something. This feels more like a Chris Broderick kind of deal where he's basically just a hired gun, get a steady paycheck to travel the world and then go and do what his heart desires after a few albums.


I mean, he's one of the best technical guitarists out there right now, why would he join Arch Enemy who already has an established style with an established fanbase if he wants to take them in a different direction?


----------



## ArtDecade (May 24, 2017)

Zalbu said:


> I mean, he's one of the best technical guitarists out there right now, why would he join Arch Enemy who already has an established style with an established fanbase if he wants to take them in a different direction?



My hope was that Amott wanted to go in a different direction. There are plenty of guitarists out there that he could have hired that would have fallen in and played a bit role for less money than Loomis. I guess I set my bar hire than AE did when they brought him into the band.


----------



## TheHandOfStone (May 24, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Here comes another album of Ammott's extremely boring riffs, leads and lyrics. I can't believe this is the band that made Wages of Sin. The last few albums have been packed full of B side material so Loomis's input could really have shook things up again.


Yeah, I think Ammott needs someone like Bill Steer to offset his predictability. I loved that duo in Carcass, but ever since I've kind of felt his writing has been mediocre.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 24, 2017)

meh whatever, I haven't liked Arch Enemy since Rise of the Tyrant. Such a wasted opportunity to not let Jeff help with writing.


----------



## Lasik124 (May 24, 2017)

So Loomis didn't help write at all?

Wonder if it was by Mikes choice or what...Either way what a waste.

I was looking forward to his riffs breaking up the Arch Enemy sound....


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 24, 2017)

Lasik124 said:


> So Loomis didn't help write at all?
> 
> Wonder if it was by Mikes choice or what...Either way what a waste.
> 
> I was looking forward to his riffs breaking up the Arch Enemy sound....



I bet it was Mike's choice, but Loomis rolled with it.


----------



## works0fheart (May 24, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> meh whatever, I haven't liked Arch Enemy since Rise of the Tyrant.



Same here. That album was actually pretty solid, I don't get why so many people here are talking like Wages was the last good thing they put out, but to each their own. 

I think what's really going on here is they're just trying to be more marketable to the mainstream so if that means being another death-metal-training-wheels band then I guess they're up for it. That became pretty evident when they picked up Alyssa on vocals... errr... eye-candy-frontwoman. Angela at least had the voice to backup her silly looks, this new girl is awful though.


----------



## IGC (May 24, 2017)

Seems like after doomsday machine, things just didn't quite do it for me like before. I remember going to see the doomsday machine tour in clevo. and expecting to see chris amoot, and there was some other dude. I was all confused, like did chris get botox or something? Peabody's was a small venue, not many people so I was able to get right up close. I didn't know who the hell it was. Later I found out it was Gus G. Nothing against guss. 
With alyssa, never forgive never forget and a couple others have grown on me some, but not like they were before.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 24, 2017)

works0fheart said:


> Same here. That album was actually pretty solid, I don't get why so many people here are talking like Wages was the last good thing they put out, but to each their own.
> 
> I think what's really going on here is they're just trying to be more marketable to the mainstream so if that means being another death-metal-training-wheels band then I guess they're up for it. That became pretty evident when they picked up Alyssa on vocals... errr... eye-candy-frontwoman. Angela at least had the voice to backup her silly looks, this new girl is awful though.



she has some pipes but nothing like Angela had imo. Also I can never forgive her for being part of The Agonist (which was almost as bad of a band as Otep imo).


----------



## bostjan (May 26, 2017)

I had a couple friends who were big Arch Enemy fans during the John Liiva tenure. They both made their opinion clear that they saw it as a sell-out move. I only knew the band because of these friends, but decided to give them a chance and picked up _Wages of Sin_, really, just to see what they were complaining about. I was actually quite blown away. The big thing was the production - the mix sounded HUGE! And then the balance of technicality and melody/catchiness in the guitars and drums.

To be frank, the vocals on that album sound just a little weird. I know some people will throw a fit over this, but just honestly listen to the vocals on that album, and you can tell that they were doing some things to mask her natural voice and make it sound deeper and more masculine. I hear it less in her later work with the band.

Since Doomsday Machine, they have been playing around with the foundation of their sound, and it just has not grabbed me the same way. They're still good, but, IDK, I just don't like the newer stuff nearly as much. Or maybe part of it is just me.


----------



## fps (May 27, 2017)

TheShreddinHand said:


> So I get that Loomis is getting steady pay by being in Arch Enemy, and it seems that Nevermore isn't reforming anytime soon. But with the resume Loomis has, why couldn't he form his own new band with cherry picked members and strike out on his own? Maybe he's cool with being a hired gun and wants the steady check, but damn, this man has written more great 7 string riffs and leads than just about anybody. Really want to hear his own creations again!
> 
> (Secretly I just want Nevermore back together.)



Because I reckon you nailed it at the top there. He has been in this game a long, long time and some steady income that doesn't involve him burning up his creativity must seem like the right play right now. It's going to bring him a tonne of extra exposure, and hey maybe he just likes being in the band and the people he's working with.

In comparison, having to strike out again from zero with another band? I don't like those odds at all, although I'd love a Nevermore re-union and new record for sure.


----------



## xCaptainx (May 29, 2017)

fps said:


> Because I reckon you nailed it at the top there. He has been in this game a long, long time and some steady income that doesn't involve him burning up his creativity must seem like the right play right now. It's going to bring him a tonne of extra exposure, and hey maybe he just likes being in the band and the people he's working with.
> 
> In comparison, having to strike out again from zero with another band? I don't like those odds at all, although I'd love a Nevermore re-union and new record for sure.



Yup exactly. 

Jef is 45. To have a solid pay cheque as a touring guitarist at any age is a dream come true, in all honestly. 

Starting from scratch? You'd have a few years of no income whilst you built the base up to get the punters in, let's be honest. 

All good and proper in your late teens/early twenties when you have your parents basement to sleep in inbetween tours, but the allure of that effort vs return does get slimmer and slimmer the older you get. 

I'm 33 and in an established band, there's no fucking way I'd contemplating starting from scratch to get to where I am right now. For fun? Yeah, sure, but if a pay cheque was required I'd find a solid job with little stress asap. Egos be damned.


----------



## lewis (May 29, 2017)

another example of band members being overly protective over their "Baby" (the band) to the point they cant even see they have allowed their band to become stale and boring and dont realise that change could be a good thing.

Loomis being allowed input in the song writing would have reinvigorated this band. But as it stands, with the news he hasnt been allowed, Ive lost all interest in this new album and this band.
Loomis joining these guys really stoked my interest again because I assumed he would be writing with them. 
I genuinely havent liked them since Doomsday machine but always looooove Loomis's style on his solo works.

Tbh, Amott must be a rigid, stubborn, idiot.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 29, 2017)

I actually went back and listened to some of their newer albums, and they still have some catchy riffs but nothing to the extent that they had on earlier albums. Khaos Legion is actually a decent album, though I didn't like War Eternal much.


----------



## couverdure (May 30, 2017)

works0fheart said:


> Same here. That album was actually pretty solid, I don't get why so many people here are talking like Wages was the last good thing they put out, but to each their own.
> 
> I think what's really going on here is they're just trying to be more marketable to the mainstream so if that means being another death-metal-training-wheels band then I guess they're up for it. That became pretty evident when they picked up Alyssa on vocals... errr... eye-candy-frontwoman. Angela at least had the voice to backup her silly looks, this new girl is awful though.



Seems about right, War Eternal is their most viewed music video and You Will Know My Name is a million behind Nemesis, their second most viewed video that was uploaded a decade ago. That description of Alissa is also an accurate statement since she's ten years younger than Angela and has that long glowing blue hair so a lot of the younger fans can go after her image.

The new album will probably be like the new version of Stolen Life, Loomis is gonna insert his solos in some sections in the songs. It would be cool if Angela did some guest vocals in it as well.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (May 30, 2017)

MFB said:


> I feel like with Angela they had a different flavor than the Johann discs, almost a second wind, but it was over by Doomsday Machine - which is fine IMO, since there's still about five solid A.E. CDs at that point.



When she joined the band she told them to "ditch to the boring riffs" and Michael was in agreement since he felt the earlier material died on stage when they tried to play it. 



bostjan said:


> To be frank, the vocals on that album sound just a little weird. I know some people will throw a fit over this, but just honestly listen to the vocals on that album, and you can tell that they were doing some things to mask her natural voice and make it sound deeper and more masculine. I hear it less in her later work with the band.



Fredrik Nordstorm pushed Angela to her limits on that album. He would constantly delete takes and tell her to try again until she was on the verge of quitting the band. A bit extreme but you can really hear the anger in her voice and why it sounds different to later albums. I wish more producers would push band members like that.


----------



## El Caco (May 30, 2017)

CreptorStatus said:


> While it is a shame that Loomis didn't do any of the song writing on the new record, i guess i must be in the minority. I felt the last Arch Enemy record was pretty good and feel they are one of the only melodic death metal bands who have actually stuck to their guns and not pulled an In Flames or drowned their songs in clean vocals.


Maybe we are in the minority but apart from the vocals of Alissa I loved the last album. The strange part for me is I think she sounds better when she sings Angela's songs and sounds worst singing her songs.

As for the clean vocals, I'd be surprised if this next album doesn't have them. There was no way they could put clean vocals on Alissa's first album, it would have been too much change but I'd be surprised if they didn't intend on doing the clean vocal thing and brought her in specifically for her cleans because they could have picked someone who would have fit AA much better than her if they wanted. I'm expecting the worst for this next album. I guess it could be worse, Johan could be singing :ducksforcover:


----------



## bostjan (May 30, 2017)

Personally, I'm always blown away by vocalists who can do more than one of the following: clean vocals, death growls, screams or pig squeals, and make the sound of a garbage disposal chewing up a wet sock. As blown away as I might be, once the novelty of the vocal technique palette wears off, I'm left with how cool the songs are - and if there isn't something that grabs me on an artistic level, then I probably won't revisit the song too much.


----------



## El Caco (May 30, 2017)

I think we are all like that. The difference is we all have different tastes which for many change over time. It is why I get bored with so many bands that are highly praised by others. Most bands I'll start to listen and think it has potential but quickly get bored including some of the biggest Metal bands. Arch Enemy is one of my favourite bands especially during the Angela years, there is nothing that bores me and I love it all. I think War Eternal could have been my favourite album if Angela was singing, I really like that album musically I just find it really hard to listen to because of the vocals. It's the melodic stuff that hooks me and it is the same reason I love Machine Head. But everyone liked different things. Once upon a time Mikael Arkefeldt liked good music and Opeth were incredible, now not so much. I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree.


----------



## couverdure (May 30, 2017)

Alissa is working on a solo album, so she's more likely to put her clean vocals there while she exclusively does unclean vocals in AE.


----------



## El Caco (May 30, 2017)

Maybe but there's this


> "This album is a bit more open in that sense. It sounds more open and some of the songs I would say, dare I use the word 'epic'. [_Laughs_] It's different, yes, we can do a lot more now than we could… We just don't have to cram as much metal as possible in the most sort of 'energetic' way. We can do it in other ways as well. Don't be scared, I'm not saying everything will be slow; that's not what is happening. It's extremely *ARCH ENEMY*, but within what it is *ARCH ENEMY*, we have gone out to explore new worlds. It will be some of the same and also some new stuff."


----------



## ArtDecade (May 30, 2017)

Not gonna lie - I like War Eternal. Alissa doesn't have the same power as Angela, but she still delivered some great performances on the live album. I think she will be a great addition given some more time. My biggest hope was that Loomis was going to push Amott harder into trying some new things, but I guess we will see what the future holds. Maybe Loomis didn't have any suitable material for the album or they need more time together to sort out some songs. Arch Enemy is a business machine and they were probably moving faster than Jeff is used to.


----------



## El Caco (May 30, 2017)

Or like the other big bands certain people don't like sharing royalties for song writing credits. Loomis seemed to be very understanding.


----------



## OmegaSlayer (May 30, 2017)

Loomis should get Broderick out of that silly band he's in and do something serious.


----------



## works0fheart (May 30, 2017)

El Caco said:


> The strange part for me is I think she sounds better when she sings Angela's songs and sounds worst singing her songs.



If you're comparing Alissa's vocals to her own other vocals, then sure, but if you're comparing them to Angela's, then no. Angela destroys her, no contest.

Both of these vids in their entirety are pretty good for comparison, but 1:42 of the first one and 1:40 of the 2nd.









Also, I'm surprised at the number of people who don't care for the post-doomsday machine material. While I don't like that album, Rise of the Tyrant is really good, or at least I thought so. Probably one of the better albums they've released actually.

That guitar tone is amazing as well.




I would love for this band to be able to go back to being relevant but it seems like they lost all of their mmph when Chris left the last time, and I think when Angela left that was really the last nail in the coffin. At this point they almost seem like a parody of themselves and it just needs to stop.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 30, 2017)

works0fheart said:


>




Besides the shitty pigsqueal at 1:40 you were pointing out, I actually thought this was the better performance. Something felt more dynamic about her performance. Angela's vocals always felt one-dimensional to me.


----------



## ArtDecade (May 30, 2017)

I'm with HeHasTheJazzHands on this one. Nothing about Alissa's performance left me cold.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (May 30, 2017)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Loomis should get Broderick out of that silly band he's in and do something serious.



This +1000000


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 30, 2017)

El Caco said:


> I think we are all like that. The difference is we all have different tastes which for many change over time. It is why I get bored with so many bands that are highly praised by others. Most bands I'll start to listen and think it has potential but quickly get bored including some of the biggest Metal bands. Arch Enemy is one of my favourite bands especially during the Angela years, there is nothing that bores me and I love it all. I think War Eternal could have been my favourite album if Angela was singing, I really like that album musically I just find it really hard to listen to because of the vocals. It's the melodic stuff that hooks me and it is the same reason I love Machine Head. But everyone liked different things. Once upon a time Mikael Arkefeldt liked good music and Opeth were incredible, now not so much. I'm sure there are plenty of people who disagree.


^totally agree about Opeth, they used to be amazing but everything after blackwater park just feels meh. Sorceress was decent though.

Also, Angela> Alyssa. She just doesn't have the same power to the growls.


----------



## couverdure (May 30, 2017)

works0fheart said:


> I would love for this band to be able to go back to being relevant but it seems like they lost all of their mmph when Chris left the last time, and I think when Angela left that was really the last nail in the coffin. At this point they almost seem like a parody of themselves and it just needs to stop.



They haven't pulled an In Flames yet though, there's still 3/5 of the lineup that had Chris and Angela, and if anything they're more relevant then they were now because Loomis and Alissa were in two very popular bands and War Eternal sold so much better than the last album with Angela.


----------



## IGC (May 30, 2017)

Joann Liva was pretty killer...loved "The Immortal" I like his version the best, and that video too.


----------



## OmegaSlayer (May 31, 2017)

Liiva was quite unique in his way.
The girls draw in an amount of pubblic Liiva wouldn't ever be able to.


----------



## El Caco (May 31, 2017)

works0fheart said:


> If you're comparing Alissa's vocals to her own other vocals, then sure, but if you're comparing them to Angela's, then no. Angela destroys her, no contest.


I don't need the comparison, I absolutely agree. I just thought it was strange, I didn't like her at all on the album but when I heard her live and heard her singing those older songs better I thought why doesn't she sing like that all the time, I wouldn't dislike her as much if she did. I just wish I had the opportunity to see them live when Angela was singing. At least knowing she does sing some songs a little better if I get to see them live I think I can still enjoy it.


----------



## dax21 (May 31, 2017)

OmegaSlayer said:


> Liiva was quite unique in his way.
> The girls draw in an amount of pubblic Liiva wouldn't ever be able to.



Exactly. They are a brand nowadays first and foremost, and image is very important for them as you can tell with all the bells and whistles they got going on, with the stage uniforms and stuff. I find that understandable. Hell, even Loomis seems to have lost so much weight since he joined them.

Also, they just announced couple of days ago that they will be playing here for the first time ever later this year. I am going but it's mostly for the novelty if I am honest.


----------



## Chiba666 (May 31, 2017)

Big fan up until Rise of the Tyrant. Not enjoyed much of their stuff since, War Eternal as ok but the less said about the re-recording of the old songs the better.


----------



## OmegaSlayer (May 31, 2017)

I don't deny I had more than one erotic dream involving Angelina when she was hired...but musically...nope 
But it's the whole band that started indulging in compromises.
I mean...one of the most significant song writers of the 90s (Heartwork is one of those records that changed EVERYTHING and nothing had ever been the same after that), is 50 yo now and dyes the few hairs he has left...plum.
I mean, Ammott doesn't need that visual crap, he's not a visual key 25 yo dude


----------



## Lorcan Ward (May 31, 2017)

El Caco said:


> I just wish I had the opportunity to see them live when Angela was singing. At least knowing she does sing some songs a little better if I get to see them live I think I can still enjoy it.



I saw them 2 or 3 times with Angela and didn't think she was a strong singer live. Aggressive delivery and good stage presence though.


----------



## Zalbu (May 31, 2017)

Why are people complaining about Alyssa? She's the least of their problems, they actually have the opportunity to do something interesting with their sound since she's not a one trick pony like Angela but they decide to stick to the buttdeath sound.


----------



## works0fheart (May 31, 2017)

^Yes, but the "tricks" she does have are awful. She sounds like another generic fill-in-the-blank-core vocalist. I can't think of anyone else that sounds like Angela.


----------



## ArtDecade (May 31, 2017)

Angela kicked open the doors, but why should all women have to sound like her? Alyssa sounds great and I think she is a good fit vocally for Arch Enemy. The only issue I have with her is that she (or the band) seems to think that she needs to use her sex appeal on stage and in photo shoots. I wish she would just toss on a t-shirt and let her talent do the heavy lifting.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 31, 2017)

ArtDecade said:


> Angela kicked open the doors, but why should all women have to sound like her? Alyssa sounds great and I think she is a good fit vocally for Arch Enemy. The only issue I have with her is that she (or the band) seems to think that she needs to use her sex appeal on stage and in photo shoots. I wish she would just toss on a t-shirt and let her talent do the heavy lifting.


While I agree, I can also understand that sexing her up probably broadens their market a bit more than if she just wore a t-shirt. Too bad they chose to do it in that ravenous live vid by putting her in hot topic clothes, she looks like an extra for Black Veil Brides.


----------



## bostjan (May 31, 2017)

None of their vocalists have sounded phenomenal in a live setting, from what I've seen and heard.  As I mentioned, there was something fake-sounding about some of WoS's vocals, even though the instrument arrangements were brutal AF. It's still one of my favourite albums, in spite of that, but I was never sold that the band/producers were 100% happy with Angela's raw vocals. There are moments when you can really hear her, though. I'd rather hear the vocalist the way the vocalist sounds, man, woman, or parrot (Hatebeak, anyone?) than something processed or fudged or dubbed in with a deeper voice. That's my opinion  and you can hate it if you want. And don't get me wrong, I think they are a killer band and they have a killer vocalist...I just have nitpicky issues here and there.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (May 31, 2017)

Are people aware that there are some small clean sections on War Eternal? 1:10 underneath the growls




Zalbu said:


> Why are people complaining about Alyssa? She's the least of their problems, they actually have the opportunity to do something interesting with their sound since she's not a one trick pony like Angela but they decide to stick to the buttdeath sound.



I liked her vocals in the Agonist but don't think she suits Arch Enemy's sound. Her guest appearance in Kamelot's Liar Liar is an incredible display of her range.



The mix of aggressive and cleans just show how little Michael is using her range and now Loomis is getting the same treatment. Alissa said she demo'd a bunch of songs with clean vocal sections(no screams over them) for the last album but Michael turned them down just like he's turning down Loomis's ideas because its not Arch Enemy's "sound".


----------



## El Caco (May 31, 2017)

works0fheart said:


> ^Yes, but the "tricks" she does have are awful. She sounds like another generic fill-in-the-blank-core vocalist. I can't think of anyone else that sounds like Angela.


There are a bunch of covers on Youtube that sound a lot like Angela, but I don't think they needed to find someone who sounded like Angela or even female, I just think they should have looked harder for someone with vocals that fit Arch Enemy better. Alissa is talented and as eye candy as you can get but I still don't think she fits in AE.


----------



## IGC (May 31, 2017)

Bringing the girls in, as mentioned was surely a business strategy. I mean "wages of sin" says it all. I remember when they brought Angela on/ made it to the cover of Guitar World when Anthems came out...
The way she posed next to Mike and Chris, it was suggestive in kind of a weird gross sort of way. Maybe it's just me who noticed that. But I think there was some sort of underlying message.


----------



## indreku (Jun 1, 2017)

The discussion of who is the best AE singer, is quite pointless in general as each has their own unique voice and each have their own favorites for various reasons.
I remember back in the day when I first heard them with Liiva and it was amazing loved it. 
When Angela came in, it was door and an eye opener, wow bold statement and actually drew a crowed and landmarked AE.
When Angela retired and Alyssa came in, I was, ok another bold move, as I was familiar with her works before and thought actually this would bring new life to AE as it has turned into quite monotonous, but to my disappointment, she ctrl+C ctrl+V old pattern.

I think one of the reasons both Loomis and Alyssa have been turned down as it is against the AE sound and pattern - for me most of the stuff sounds the same through out the albums and I think this has kept selling the records - you will always get the staple AE - and as we can see chancing the pattern can cause loss of fans and record/show sales and well I think no one wants that.

About Alyssas outfit, I think this was even before she was in Agonist, she was quite theatrical and had this underlined sex tone in them, so no major change in that I think, maybe a bigger budget on the "armor" side and well small directions from Michael to fit the AE brand.


----------



## Zalbu (Jun 1, 2017)

works0fheart said:


> I can't think of anyone else that sounds like Angela.


Well yeah, that's why she's a one trick pony. Like @Lorcan Ward said, that Kamelot clip shows that Arch Enemy aren't using Alissa to her full potential so you can't exactly blame her just because her harsh vocals doesn't sound the same as Angelas, because nobody does.


----------



## El Caco (Jun 1, 2017)

Zalbu said:


> Well yeah, that's why she's a one trick pony. Like @Lorcan Ward said, that Kamelot clip shows that Arch Enemy aren't using Alissa to her full potential so you can't exactly blame her just because her harsh vocals doesn't sound the same as Angelas, because nobody does.


Yeah but I love Arch Enemy and don't listen to Kamelot. Alissa fit perfectly in that song, I agree that is the perfect use of her telent and she is very talented. But I love Arch Enemy and I don't want Arch Enemy to try and be Kamelot or be different to fit Alissa. 

That is why I think they should have found someone who fit them better. Nothing against clean vocals either, Machine Head is my other favourite band. But Arch Enemy has never needed clean vocals and I've never found them boring or monotonous. Anyone who feels that way doesn't really understand or appreciate Arch Enemy. Their thing is they are the opposite of most music. Most music has the vocal as the melody over instruments that support or back the vocal melody. Arch Enemy treats the guitar as the lead melody and the vocal is a supporting instrument to the guitar. This is something they have said themselves but is obvious and if they changed it they would be different.

I have looked for bands like Arch Enemy because I can't get enough but like Old Opeth and Machine Head there is nothing else like them and that is why it is disappointing if they change and become something else, there is nothing to fill that gap. That's why Alissa in Arch Enemy is disappointing to me, they are not as enjoyable anymore because I find Alissa annoying as she stands out in a bad way as she doesn't fit. The very annoying part of that is the War Eternal because Nick's parts were amazing and I think you can really hear his contribution which I think is very positive. I was upset when I read he was no longer in AE. Musically War Eternal is my favourite Album yet I find it the most difficult to listen to because of the vocals.

Obviously there is a lot to picking a new band member and I can see why they chose Alissa, they can all get along. She is also a straight edge vegan and they already liked her. I'm just disappointed they valued those things over the sound of AE. Unfortunately she is really locked into AE now because The Agonist dumped her and that's something AE would no doubt feel some responsibility for.

And BTW I think Angela sounds amazing live at least in youtube vids and on their official live stuff, so to those who have said otherwise I disagree. Tyrants of the Rising Sun is my most listened to album. But at least Alissa doesn't sound so terrible live and I still hope to see them. Perhaps she will sound better on the next album. Something I noticed was how Angela's voice changed from album to album and her performance on Khaos really wasn't that spectacular but comparing Angela's early live performances to later ones she improved as time went on. Maybe Alissa will surprise me on this album, I really hope so.


----------



## IGC (Jun 2, 2017)

Yes, AE to me has all ways been about the sweet guitars, vocs are secondary. Sometimes I think it would be better without.


----------



## couverdure (Jul 14, 2017)

Their new single is out on Spotify.

Alissa's vocals are doing great so far, still no signs of clean vocals. There are also the typical AE key changes but I quite enjoy them, especially one in the ending. My favorite part is the chorus melody and the last solo.


----------



## El Caco (Jul 14, 2017)

Google Play for those who don't use Spotify

I guess this is what they meant by experimental, I prefer their regular sound.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Jul 14, 2017)

Intro, verse, riffs, vocals, interlude, mixing and solos are really good. 

Only thing I don't like is the lyrics and what is with the DJ scratch and the Nightwish/Disney piano section with the clean whispering? So cringey.

There is a video aswell, I thought Loomis was playing the last solo but its Michael.


----------



## ArtDecade (Jul 14, 2017)

The song is killer and the vocals and guitar work are phenomenal.


----------



## DC23 (Jul 14, 2017)

New song is good, but it's such a shame to have two people so under-utilized in a band. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE AE, but I am hoping for some more progression. Great example, Lorcan Ward, Avalanche is one of my favourite songs off their most recent effort simply for those underlying clean vocals. I don't think some of that goes against the AE sound.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Jul 14, 2017)

I'm digging it. Good stuff.


----------



## El Caco (Jul 14, 2017)

Surprised: I've become more accepting of the vocals. 

Negative: Those FX/tones. Michael mentioned earlier he was using a chorus as a secret weapon in the studio. I sure didn't expect this and this doesn't sound good to me. All the melodic runs and riffs without the effects were so much better.

Negative: Jeff's solo. Very Jeff, I didn't like it here and don't think it fit. Unlike when I first heard Nick and thought he complimented and added to AE.

Indifferent: I don't care about the bridge or the whispering. I don't feel like it violated the AE sound or took away anything from the song. I don't think they need it but if it doesn't become a habit I don't care. I much prefer AE's regular slow melodic guitar as a bridge on its own though.

Like: Still on the bridge, I actually liked the keys. Wouldn't want them to be a habit though.

After a bunch of plays the song has grown on me. For the record I have no idea about the lyrics because I tend to ignore lyrics at first and initially listen to music in the same way someone would listen to guitar but not know what specific notes are playing. I like to first enjoy the vocal as an instrument and focus on the tone and melody. That probably explains why I have found it so hard to accept Alyssa, for me her tone has been comparable to Slipknot's early guitar tone.

Anyway back to the song, specifically the lyrics. Today I'm surprised I'm not hating Alyssa's vocals as much as I usually do. I could tell they sat in the mix better this time and thought that was it but I decided to give that idea a stress test. I went back and listened to Angela for 2 songs, I immediately followed that by listening to a few songs off the last album and then back to this song. It turns out that I'm more accepting of her in AE now which is good for me because musically War Eternal is my favourite album but I have found it hard to listen to because of the vocals.

Now I nervously await more. I'm a little excited that I no longer find Alyssa so offensive to the ears but I'm a little afraid of how this album might turn out musically.

My verdict for this song: They tried too much in one song. It is overdone and would be a much better song if they had been a little less ambitious.


----------



## rami80 (Jul 17, 2017)

Loomis is really under utilized here. In addition his solo's are just not well suited for melo-death.

I'd wish he would have just formed a nevermore-ish band. But I guess he has to move on at some point.


----------



## p0ke (Jul 18, 2017)

Didn't really care for the new song. The intro riff felt very generic, even though it had a nice vibe to it. The chorus felt way too cheesy, similar to many parts on Rise of the Tyrant. They tend to walk a fine line between just being and catchy and being cheesy, and this time they fell on cheesy. IMO War Eternal fell on the "just catchy" side. The breakdown (ish?) part was pretty nice though.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Jul 18, 2017)

I tabbed this last night and noticed during the breakdown part they drop their guitars a semitone from C to B and then back up . Thats one way to f**k over anyone trying to play along to your song lol. I wonder if they will use pitch shifters live or start playing some songs fully in B standard instead.


----------



## lewis (Jul 20, 2017)

I like the new song and it feels progressive to me which is nice. It tells a story rather than repeat itself throughout.

Loomis is massively wasted so far in the band though sadly.

/\ thats actually a really cool Idea. Mid song tuning swap is awesome haha. The Kempers drop tune effect is very convincing and works great so it would be so easy to just turn that effect on/off with 1 footswitch press.


----------



## ArtDecade (Jul 20, 2017)

Steinberger TransTrem can do this as well!


----------



## Ralyks (Jul 20, 2017)

I forgot Loomis was in this band. And that's not from lack of listening to anything new they've put out.

Please just fix things with Warrel and get us some new Nevermore.


----------



## IGC (Jul 20, 2017)

Lorcan Ward said:


> I tabbed this last night and noticed during the breakdown part they drop their guitars a semitone from C to B and then back up . Thats one way to f**k over anyone trying to play along to your song lol. I wonder if they will use pitch shifters live or start playing some songs fully in B standard instead.



Interesting fact, back in high school, my friend had an aria pro bass that had a lever on its tuner that would change from standard to one full tone lower. Just flip the little lever. Maybe there is one for semitones now?


----------



## potatohead (Jul 20, 2017)

IGC said:


> Interesting fact, back in high school, my friend had an aria pro bass that had a lever on its tuner that would change from standard to one full tone lower. Just flip the little lever. Maybe there is one for semitones now?



Drop tune petals are pretty good now, they'll likely use one of those. Some bands with multiple tunings don't even bring different tuned guitars on tour anymore, just use a pedal.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Jul 21, 2017)

rami80 said:


> Loomis is really under utilized here. In addition his solo's are just not well suited for melo-death.
> 
> I'd wish he would have just formed a nevermore-ish band. But I guess he has to move on at some point.



... but he has to eat and pay the bills in the meantime. 

... and saying you were a guitarist in Arch Enemy looks hella cool on a resume.


----------



## StrmRidr (Jul 21, 2017)

potatohead said:


> Drop tune petals are pretty good now, they'll likely use one of those. Some bands with multiple tunings don't even bring different tuned guitars on tour anymore, just use a pedal.



Yup, I remember seeing an August Burns Red rig rundown and they use a Digitech Drop live to go back and forth between Drop C and Drop B.


----------



## lewis (Jul 21, 2017)

StrmRidr said:


> Yup, I remember seeing an August Burns Red rig rundown and they use a Digitech Drop live to go back and forth between Drop C and Drop B.


absolutely the route i want to take for my band although it might mean i have to buy the digitech drop for our bassist too. Bass divebombs too? sweet


----------



## StrmRidr (Jul 21, 2017)

FWIW, I own one and it's awesome.


----------



## IGC (Jul 21, 2017)

StrmRidr said:


> Yup, I remember seeing an August Burns Red rig rundown and they use a Digitech Drop live to go back and forth between Drop C and Drop B.



Can this pedal be used to tune from standard E to "arch enemy C" everything two whole tones lower? And still sound good?


----------



## potatohead (Jul 22, 2017)

IGC said:


> Can this pedal be used to tune from standard E to "arch enemy C" everything two whole tones lower? And still sound good?



The problem going too far down is latency, but for one step at least they are good enough. I haven't messed around with one for a while so I don't know if I would find more than that acceptable.


----------



## StrmRidr (Jul 22, 2017)

IGC said:


> Can this pedal be used to tune from standard E to "arch enemy C" everything two whole tones lower? And still sound good?



Your tone will start to suffer on anything below 1 full step I find. It still works but it's not ideal.


----------



## El Caco (Jul 22, 2017)

This video demos every drop and talks about the latency or lack of and how it effects your tone which is all discussed in a positive way.


----------



## wankerness (Jul 24, 2017)

potatohead said:


> Drop tune petals are pretty good now, they'll likely use one of those. Some bands with multiple tunings don't even bring different tuned guitars on tour anymore, just use a pedal.



Does it work well on chords too?

The only time I've seen one is in a video of some dude covering Meshuggah's "Marrow," where the lowest note is switching to E instead of F in some sections. I dunno if it was ever confirmed that Meshuggah themselves had recorded it that way, and I don't think they've played it live yet! But anyway, it's all single notes so I wasn't sure about its capabilities.


----------



## wankerness (Jul 24, 2017)

IGC said:


> Interesting fact, back in high school, my friend had an aria pro bass that had a lever on its tuner that would change from standard to one full tone lower. Just flip the little lever. Maybe there is one for semitones now?



Whatever they're doing, I'm sure it's not this:


----------



## IGC (Jul 24, 2017)

wankerness said:


> Whatever they're doing, I'm sure it's not this:




Yeah probably not


----------



## couverdure (Jul 25, 2017)

It boggles me that this thread went from discussing their new song to talking about some drop-tuning gear.


----------



## wankerness (Jul 25, 2017)

couverdure said:


> It boggles me that this thread went from discussing their new song to talking about some drop-tuning gear.


Shows how interesting the song is on its own merits!


----------



## manu80 (Jul 25, 2017)

Finally saw the clip today...average song...
-Alissa looks like a bad cosplay costume....looks so dated to me...maybe i'm getting too old for those kind of clichés anyway.
And angela was still better to me
-I know you gotta eat but damn Jeff loomis... what are you doing here ? Waste of talent!!!!!!
Starting to like the cygnus shape though


----------



## lewis (Jul 25, 2017)

manu80 said:


> Finally saw the clip today...average song...
> -Alissa looks like a bad cosplay costume....looks so dated to me...maybe i'm getting too old for those kind of clichés anyway.
> And angela was still better to me
> -I know you gotta eat but damn Jeff loomis... what are you doing here ? Waste of talent!!!!!!
> Starting to like the cygnus shape though


yeah I agree with this slightly.

Also the thing that realllllly annoys me is everyone harps on about how women are only viewed as meat and its offensive etc etc and how there are some who say about women being in bands for eye candy and nothing more etc. Yet she imo is wearing stuff that clearly is designed to evoke sexual feelings towards her. So which is it?.

For me I want to see more women in bands and given more chances. But whenever they get in big bands and they then suddenly start wearing skimpy outfits etc. I mean yes we have that conter argument "its their right to wear whatever they want" etc, but thats a BS argument.

Clearly when a woman looks "hot" she knows exactly the repercussions of doing so and is probably hoping thats the reaction to help sales.

Arch Enemy has always been guilty of that imo as was Lacuna Coil and any other shit like it.
The men in these bands are not looking like Calvin Klein models in the music videos, quite the opposite, so why should the women look like they are in 50 shades of Grey?


----------



## JohnIce (Jul 25, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah I agree with this slightly.
> 
> Also the thing that realllllly annoys me is everyone harps on about how women are only viewed as meat and its offensive etc etc and how there are some who say about women being in bands for eye candy and nothing more etc. Yet she imo is wearing stuff that clearly is designed to evoke sexual feelings towards her. So which is it?.



Que? She's literally wearing pants, tops and boots. Give the lady a damn break, no it's not "clearly designed to evoke sexual feelings towards her". A woman who looks like Alissa could wear jeans and a hoodie and dudes would still sexualize her, scrutinize and criticize her motives, don't blame her for that. I say kudos to her for facing that and wearing whatever she thinks is cool, there's probably a lot of creativity and time going into her wardrobe.


----------



## Descent (Jul 25, 2017)

She's actually dressed pretty close to Angela, I think she's changed color. 
There's definitely something going on to make her the eye candy, look at how nondescript are the rest of the bands, you could barely see them in video. 
I liked the band the best with Liiva, and 1st album with Angela was great, after that the songwriting started to slip. Now, I barely think of them....if it wasn't for Loomis joining I probably wouldn't even listen to that song, I was curios as to what he'll bring to the record...and apparently the answer is: nothing.


----------



## El Caco (Jul 25, 2017)

Loomis brought the solo (didn't fit the song at all IMO), tell me how that isn't as Loomis solo?

I think once you ignore the effects and the whispering the defining difference between War Eternal and the new song you are left with is the solo. I really liked Nick's and thought it worked for the band, Loomis sounds like Loomis and that was my fear before I heard him here, I knew his regular sound didn't fit the band and I wasn't sure if he had anything else, it seems he doesn't. 

(OT:I'm starting to think that despite his guitar ability there must be something about Nick that is preventing him from landing a secure gig. Maybe he's just doing what he wants but the way he jumps from band to band without recording leaves my wondering if he expects too much too soon or if perhaps he has a hard time getting along.)

I still love Arch Enemy and I've come to accept they will never be the same and I accept Alissa but Loomis in AE works as good as Alissa does IMO. 2 square pegs they have forced into round holes.

I am afraid of how AE might change from here though. If they start making vocals a stronger focus, if they starts using clean vocals and moving further away from their core sound I'll be disappointed.

All this talk of the lyrics getting worse though. That makes me laugh. The lyrics have never been inspiring, I'm not sure inspiring lyrics would even fit the band. Part of their formula to try and keep the delivery of the message powerful is simply lyrics. In a way it is similar to Power Metal Anthems. It is something that I love about Arch Enemy, it's really all about the guitar melody. Maybe that's why I like AE more than those who don't, I tend to not listen to the lyrics. It is possibly a big reason why I like Angela so much more than Alissa, Alissa is more distracting, Angela always complimented the songs so well. I hear her more like good bass, that is I don't usually focus on bass but many songs wouldn't be the same without it and strong bass can really add to a song without being the main focus.


----------



## IGC (Jul 27, 2017)

JohnIce said:


> Que? She's literally wearing pants, tops and boots. Give the lady a damn break, no it's not "clearly designed to evoke sexual feelings towards her". A woman who looks like Alissa could wear jeans and a hoodie and dudes would still sexualize her, scrutinize and criticize her motives, don't blame her for that. I say kudos to her for facing that and wearing whatever she thinks is cool, there's probably a lot of creativity and time going into her wardrobe.




Sounds like someone has a crush! 

Sorry JohnIce  (please don't be mad just playing, I like you!)

Maybe ALYSSA alyssa alyssa can't help being looked at as being "sexy" and really isn't even trying...I know my wife certainly doesn't have to try and everyone just has to check her out! Yeah braggin!!! I mean she just sits there and people are droolin/ falling in love! I don't think she likes the random horny people attention like that either.

Alyssa is definitely NOT trying to sing sexily!

I think that could be why so many females try to change how they look/talk/carry themselves these days, to look like dudes? (Btw, Not my wife)


----------



## Descent (Jul 27, 2017)

Alissa's clean voice is 

I am actually glad they didn't use it. 
BTW, the riffing on that song is super bland not just the rest. MA has actually been one of the better riff writers in his career but this is just coasting. 

Solos not fitting with anything - true, that is a Loomis signature


----------



## ArtDecade (Jul 28, 2017)

IGC said:


> Yeah braggin!!! I mean she just sits there and people are droolin/ falling in love! I don't think she likes the random horny people attention like that either.


----------



## DistinguishedPapyrus (Jul 28, 2017)

lewis said:


> Arch Enemy has always been guilty of that imo as was Lacuna Coil and any other shit like it.
> The men in these bands are not looking like Calvin Klein models in the music videos, quite the opposite, so why should the women look like they are in 50 shades of Grey?



Sorry for getting off on another tangent here, but I'm glad you meltioned that about Lacuna Coil. With that comment it just sort of hit me with how they went. I started listening to their songs back in the days of Comalies and Karmacode, still 2 of my favorite albums today. The music blew me away. It was dark, mysterious, with a moderate tempo and Italian sort of flavor to it. LC was nearly unheard of in the U.S. at that time. But when they started getting recognition, they totally "Americanized" themselves and dulled down that flare for a more mainstream sound. Cristina did a bunch of "inviting" photo shoots that rarely included Andrea, and their music got a little bone headed. I don't care but for maybe 3 or 4 of their songs from Shallow Life onward. Very generic, mainstream, "American metal" sounding with just a hint of the old LC here and there.

Makes a little more sense after reading it as a comparison to Arch Enemy, but I don't think the new AE with Alyssa is all that bad. Still fairly true to their roots, just the other members are getting older, maybe their joints hurt sometimes and they gotta take some Tylenol before writing 

Nothing wrong with a beautiful girl being in a metal band, just don't use that as a selling point, let the music speak for itself, and don't change your style for it either.

Anyway, sorry bout the rant, carry on.


----------



## ArtDecade (Jul 28, 2017)

I dunno. Maybe it is because I am older and the last time I watched videos or read trade magazines was back when Headbanger's Ball was still on. I have no idea what half of these people look like, so I base what I think on the music. I like the new Arch Enemy, because it sounds good to me.


----------



## IGC (Jul 28, 2017)

Art Decade, that pic you posted in response to my "bragging " post was hillarious my wife would KILL me if I posted a pic of her on here.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong or bad about this pose or poking fun at etc.
I mean what could they be going for with Alyssas pose before you hit play at the start of this avalanche video? Yeah shes not going Miley cyrus (nothing against her either) but what is the analysis?





Sounds like she's "living her dream" being in the band and is a fantastic front person!

BTW, I like arch enemy but not like I used to.


----------



## JohnIce (Jul 29, 2017)

IGC said:


> Sounds like someone has a crush!



Nah, it's more that a lot of my best friends are girls who are really into fashion, makeup, hair etc., it's a form of art and expression for them just like drawing or music. And while they're gorgeous it bugs the hell out of me (and them) that dudes constantly mistake this for being "inviting" or "seductive" or whatever. They can't go a day without at least one dude making sexual comments or making them feel uncomfortable in public or online, and I'm not exaggerating that. Seems like your wife experiences the same thing, and it sucks. So yeah, the comment about Alissa "clearly" trying to evoke sexual thoughts from everyone just pissed me off


----------



## lewis (Jul 29, 2017)

JohnIce said:


> Nah, it's more that a lot of my best friends are girls who are really into fashion, makeup, hair etc., it's a form of art and expression for them just like drawing or music. And while they're gorgeous it bugs the hell out of me (and them) that dudes constantly mistake this for being "inviting" or "seductive" or whatever. They can't go a day without at least one dude making sexual comments or making them feel uncomfortable in public or online, and I'm not exaggerating that. Seems like your wife experiences the same thing, and it sucks. So yeah, the comment about Alissa "clearly" trying to evoke sexual thoughts from everyone just pissed me off


yeah but what man would complain about women being all over them constantly if they looked hot?

Not sure why women complain about everyone thinking they look stunning, when men would be lapping it up.


----------



## IGC (Jul 29, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah but what man would complain about women being all over them constantly if they looked hot?
> 
> Not sure why women complain about everyone thinking they look stunning, when men would be lapping it up.



Not trying to brag, but at work I have to support a department, and there is this feisty older lady who operates a machine. She flirts and it literally grosses me out. Maybe if she looked more like ALYSSA (arch enemy front woman) I wouldn't be so disgusted! (nothing against oldies)





JohnIce said:


> Nah, it's more that a lot of my best friends are girls who are really into fashion, makeup, hair etc., it's a form of art and expression for them just like drawing or music. And while they're gorgeous it bugs the hell out of me (and them) that dudes constantly mistake this for being "inviting" or "seductive" or whatever. They can't go a day without at least one dude making sexual comments or making them feel uncomfortable in public or online, and I'm not exaggerating that. Seems like your wife experiences the same thing, and it sucks. So yeah, the comment about Alissa "clearly" trying to evoke sexual thoughts from everyone just pissed me off



Yes my wife does experience that type of random horny people attention. Not only from dudes from what I'v seen! I think it's embarrassing to her. 
I would imagine being the front person for a huge internationally touring act LIKE ARCH ENEMY with the looks of ALYSSA , one would need to develope a tolerance to those sorts of things. Your constantly displaying yourself to so many peeps.
She has this huge Doyle guy as her boyfriend. Good bodyguard.

P.s. you do love ALYSSA! Your song " ENGARDE" is about her.  (kidding sorry)


----------



## lewis (Jul 29, 2017)

IGC said:


> Not trying to brag, but at work I have to support a department, and there is this *feisty older lady* who operates a machine. *She flirts* and it literally grosses me out. Maybe if she looked more like ALYSSA (arch enemy front woman) I wouldn't be so disgusted! (nothing against oldies)
> 
> 
> 
> ...




they are the best ones!. Give it a go and report back hahaha


----------



## IGC (Jul 29, 2017)

lewis said:


> they are the best ones!. Give it a go and report back hahaha



LOL !  Arch Enemy!


----------



## lewis (Jul 29, 2017)

IGC said:


> LOL !  Arch Enemy!


changing the subject slightly,
I hope you have Chimaira xmas 15 tickets!?!?!?!!!!!!
I would be camping outside the venue now ready for it If I lived in Ohio... haha


----------



## JohnIce (Jul 29, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah but what man would complain about women being all over them constantly if they looked hot?
> 
> Not sure why women complain about everyone thinking they look stunning, when men would be lapping it up.



It's a discussion for another thread for sure. I could write you a book on why I think women and men's experiences are so different, but I think the best thing is to just talk to women about it, get their perspective. You can learn a lot of shocking things if you ask around.


----------



## exo (Jul 29, 2017)

Re: Alyssa and her stagewear.....


Let's be blunt honest: MOST guys are walking boners looking for a home.

I've see Witch Mountain with Uta Plotkin fronting them and Dreaming Dead with Elizabeth Schall up front, bother of them wears big the bone stock "pants and a metal band shirt" metalhead uniform, and the crowd chatter wasn't ANY different from seeing Huntress with Jill Janus wearing what was essentially a bikini and silk drapes.

Basically, I'm not so sure it matters of a front woman plays up the "sexy", she's probably gonna get the same reaction from the average dude.



That's why I don't give a rip about image. It's all about the MUSIC......and AE has been very, very "average" IMO for the better part of a decade.......


----------



## lewis (Jul 29, 2017)

exo said:


> Re: Alyssa and her stagewear.....
> 
> 
> Let's be blunt honest: MOST guys are walking boners looking for a home.
> ...



Our opinion differs on the first part but I completely agree about them being very very average for years now.
Last album I liked from them was Doomsday Machine.


----------



## exo (Jul 29, 2017)

lewis said:


> Our opinion differs on the first part but I completely agree about them being very very average for years now.
> Last album I liked from them was Doomsday Machine.


 

Good lord, autocorrect/predictive text did quite a hatchet job on a few parts of my post......


----------



## works0fheart (Jul 29, 2017)

What the hell is even going on in this thread at this point lol?

People went from talking about the song itself, to tuning changes within a song, to Alyssa's wardrobe, and finally back to actually discussing AE.

But if I'm going to weigh in on one of these, I'll go ahead and say there is definitely female talent out there within metal that isn't constantly trying to market someone's looks.

Good example here. Excellent band too. I'd be lying if I tried saying that Mallika isn't attractive though


----------



## IGC (Jul 29, 2017)

lewis said:


> changing the subject slightly,
> I hope you have Chimaira xmas 15 tickets!?!?!?!!!!!!
> I would be camping outside the venue now ready for it If I lived in Ohio... haha



Haven't been to one of those in like 12 13 years! I don't like them like I used to, same as ARCH ENEMY.
They have climaxed to me.
Original line up VENTANA, with ARCH ENEMY, now that's a show I'd camp for!


----------



## Zalbu (Aug 4, 2017)

Alissa could be wearing a garbage bag on stage and she'd still be sexualized, just let her wear whatever she thinks looks good 

Just heard The World Is Yours and I like it, they're still not exactly breaking new ground in metal but it's nice to see that they're trying some new stuff and experimenting a bit more. Jeff is still being underutilized but that's probably not going to change any time soon. I like the whispering section but that could just be because Nightwish is one of my favorite bands, it's not really something you'd expect out of a band like Arch Enemy.

And speaking of Nightwish, if you want to talk about looking like a cast member from 50 Shades of Grey on stage then look at what Floor Jansen is wearing, Alissa is extremely modest in comparison.


----------



## Smoked Porter (Aug 4, 2017)

Zalbu said:


> Alissa could be wearing a garbage bag on stage and she'd still be sexualized, just let her wear whatever she thinks looks good


----------



## El Caco (Aug 10, 2017)

IGC said:


> She flirts and it literally grosses me out.



Why? 

I'd get it if she was breaking boundaries but I've had people of all ages flirt with me and I've flirted back. I think it is nice, it makes me feel good, it makes them feel good, it's win win. Back in the days when I was a lot younger and went to church older ladies would often flirt with me and I'd flirt with them, no one wanted anything out of it and it was flattering. On the other hand, one time I simply gave someone a lift home and she lent over and kissed my ear and propositioned me, that was uncomfortable. Not because she was gross, I was married and I didn't want to cheat on my wife.

I really don't understand how saying nice things became something that is offensive and emotionally scaring. It's something I like about the older generation, they don't think so an saying something nice is nice.


----------



## takotakumi (Aug 10, 2017)

works0fheart said:


> What the hell is even going on in this thread at this point lol?
> 
> People went from talking about the song itself, to tuning changes within a song, to Alyssa's wardrobe, and finally back to actually discussing AE.
> 
> ...



Seen them twice, Malika fucking riippppppppssss
I honestly think she sounds more brutal live than some heavy hitters like CorpseGrinder.
She's really nice and chill too!

Which song does AE change tuning mid song? haha Curious
Last album I properly heard from them was Rise of the Tyrant. The ones that followed felt like recycled riffs, 
reminded me of what happened to In Flames.


----------



## works0fheart (Aug 10, 2017)

I haven't seen Abnormality live yet :/ 
Honestly, CorpseGrinder gets winded like 2 songs into their set usually and kind of wheeze-growls the rest of the songs.

Apparently that new track posted a few pages ago has a tuning change mid song. I agree with you though, the new albums bore me to tears. Rise of the Tyrant was the last solid release they had I think.


----------



## IGC (Aug 10, 2017)

El Caco said:


> Why?
> 
> I'd get it if she was breaking boundaries but I've had people of all ages flirt with me and I've flirted back. I think it is nice, it makes me feel good, it makes them feel good, it's win win. Back in the days when I was a lot younger and went to church older ladies would often flirt with me and I'd flirt with them, no one wanted anything out of it and it was flattering. On the other hand, one time I simply gave someone a lift home and she lent over and kissed my ear and propositioned me, that was uncomfortable. Not because she was gross, I was married and I didn't want to cheat on my wife.
> 
> I really don't understand how saying nice things became something that is offensive and emotionally scaring. It's something I like about the older generation, they don't think so an saying something nice is nice.



Sorry if I offended you with that statement. Can we move on? I just wanna be friends ?

Yay , ARCH ENEMY THESE DAYS RULES!


----------



## works0fheart (Aug 10, 2017)

No. No they do not. The end.


----------



## couverdure (Aug 11, 2017)

works0fheart said:


> No. No they do not. The end.


Because you're getting too old for them. I could tell because the majority of this site are in their very late 20's to mid 30's who were into them heavily when the band started to get mainstream. Alissa revitalized their popularity as shown by the views of the music videos from the last album and the newest one.


----------



## Rawkmann (Aug 11, 2017)

I've always liked AE to some extent, but I gotta say I prefer them since Alyssa has joined the band. I've always liked my death metal a bit more melodic and AE is really delivering the goods these days.


----------



## works0fheart (Aug 11, 2017)

couverdure said:


> Because you're getting too old for them. I could tell because the majority of this site are in their very late 20's to mid 30's who were into them heavily when the band started to get mainstream. Alissa revitalized their popularity as shown by the views of the music videos from the last album and the newest one.



I get what you're saying, but I can still go back and listen to their old material and enjoy it. The new stuff just sounds generic and uninspired to me.


----------



## Alex79 (Aug 13, 2017)

Let's face it: Metal music is a sausage fest and Alyssa is the dream bun for most of those sausages.


----------



## Fathand (Aug 14, 2017)

Alex79 said:


> Let's face it: Metal music is a sausage fest and Alyssa is the dream bun for most of those sausages.









Doyle does not approve this non-vegan comparison.


----------



## dax21 (Aug 25, 2017)

New video. Beginning really reminds me of Dreaming in Red.
Just got a ticket to see them in three weeks and I am really hoping they don't play too many of new songs.


----------



## couverdure (Aug 25, 2017)

Those riffs and solos in the middle sound very old school, I like how it blends with Alissa's more modern unclean vocals.


----------



## Zalbu (Aug 28, 2017)

Not the most exciting instrumental but it seems a lot more tailored for Alissas voice and she gets some more room to flex as well as some more personal lyrics. Seems like she's finally starting to come into her own instead of just being treated as a second rate replacement for Angela.


----------



## lewis (Aug 28, 2017)

I feel like Angela (or the other members) are still forcing the Angela style and aesthetic down our throats.
I actually would have preferred the band go in a completely different direction when Alissa joined tbh.

EDIT: I dont mean suddenly be deathcore or something. Still be in the sub genre they always have but just sound different.


----------



## wankerness (Aug 29, 2017)

couverdure said:


> Because you're getting too old for them. I could tell because the majority of this site are in their very late 20's to mid 30's who were into them heavily when the band started to get mainstream. Alissa revitalized their popularity as shown by the views of the music videos from the last album and the newest one.



Too OLD? Aren't the guys in the band all like fifty? Are their demographics on how old the YouTube viewers of these particular videos are? 

She looks like the kind of dream girl for the same dudes that have huge hardons for like, Becky Lynch. I can relate, obviously, I just don't exactly think they're aiming themselves at the kiddies. The number of weird middle aged dudes I see on film forums with Becky Lynch avs scares me.

To go with your theory of people aging out of them, I think it's less about getting too old for this band's new material and more about turning into your average old fart that has no interest in hearing anything new (aka, a lot of people once they get into their 30s, especially ones with kids). It's not like the new stuff has a fresher style, it just has a younger face on the frontman. Either that, or the new stuff really does sound uninspired.

If they released their first couple albums with Alissa on vocals and had videos like this, do you think they'd get less attention from new fans than these clunkers?


----------



## wankerness (Aug 29, 2017)

couverdure said:


> Because you're getting too old for them. I could tell because the majority of this site are in their very late 20's to mid 30's who were into them heavily when the band started to get mainstream. Alissa revitalized their popularity as shown by the views of the music videos from the last album and the newest one.



Too OLD? Aren't the guys in the band all like fifty? Are there demographics on how old the YouTube viewers of these particular videos are? 

She looks like the kind of dream girl for the same dudes that have huge hardons for like, Becky Lynch. I can relate, obviously, I just don't exactly think they're aiming themselves at the kiddies. The number of weird middle aged dudes I see on film forums with Becky Lynch avs scares me.

To go with your theory of people aging out of them, I think it's less about getting too old for this band's new material and more about turning into your average old fart that has no interest in hearing anything new (aka, a lot of people once they get into their 30s, especially ones with kids). It's not like the new stuff has a fresher style, it just has a younger face on the frontman. Either that, or the new stuff really does sound uninspired.

If they released their first couple albums with Alissa on vocals and had videos like this, do you think they'd get less attention from new fans than these?


----------



## Nicki (Aug 29, 2017)

wankerness said:


> Either that, or the new stuff really does sound uninspired.



Uninspired for sure, and I think this comes down to Alissa and Jeff not fully contributing to the band.

I think Alissa is being held back by the "extreme metal" style that Michael Amott wants Arch Enemy to stick to so we'll never get to hear Alissa sing something with a little more soul in Arch Enemy. Hence why she's putting out her own record on the side. In AE, she's stuck with only using one facet of her voice and monster-clawing the cameras in music videos.

From what I understand about the situation with Jeff is that Michael wants him to sign a long term contract but Jeff's the one holding out on becoming a full time member of the band (See video at end of post). My own personal thoughts on this is two-fold. He knows Alissa is a bit of a diva, so he doesn't want another Warrel Dane situation, and there's always the possibility of Chris Amott wanting back in with Michael not being able to say no to his brother. I don't see Jeff staying in AE after the next tour cycle. I believe it to be more likely that we'll see a Loomis/Broderick collaboration than for Jeff to stay in AE beyond the next tour.

The band is in a bit of a weird spot right now. The transition to Alissa from Angela hasn't been the most graceful and I think the Chris to Nick to Jeff switcheroo went even worse.


----------



## Zalbu (Aug 29, 2017)

Speaking of Alissa and Jeff not contributing, Jeff did contribute to Alissas solo album. This has me more excited than new AE material, I’m really interested to see what Alissas range is for her clean vocals.

http://www.metalinjection.net/upcom...wrote-part-of-her-solo-album-with-jeff-loomis


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Sep 10, 2017)

This album is quite disappointing. Some very cringey lyrics and messy songwriting, some really good guitar playing in places though and Alissa's vocals are a lot clearer with more emphasis on pronounciation. Even if Michael is playing some melodies from previous albums almost note for note its the Arch Enemy sound, his solo work is better than its been in years. I don't really like Loomis's playing much, he's often trying to squeeze in as many notes as possible into each bar which doesn't suit AE's sound.


----------



## manu80 (Sep 11, 2017)

Boring album, and the vocals are really bad. Almost inaudible, i'd rather have Corpsegrinder from CC on it. Feels really forced, angela was way better than that.
Let loomis take part to the writing maybe it will bring fresh air...


----------



## StrmRidr (Sep 27, 2017)

I'm a bit late on this but I had the chance to listen to the album a few times and I like it, so I guess this is my unpopular opinion for today.


----------



## Hellbound (Nov 17, 2018)

Actually, this is the first album from "Arch Enemy" that I have purchased ever since years ago when "Doomsday Machine" was released. I really do not know why I never kept up with them but more than likely bands like Dimmu Borgir, Old Man's Child and SepticFlesh just made me completely forget that this band even existed. I decided to go to spotify and listen to a great deal of their back catalogs and I have got to say that I am really liking this album "Will to Power" ALOT. I find this album to be very refreshing and put together very well. This post may not make me too popular on this topic of Arch Enemy but hey my ears like what I am hearing off of this album. I am not sure if it is some kind of cardinal sin to not order one of their older albums first before ordering this one...(there are quite a few) that had been released since Doomsday Machine but gosh darnit...I am enjoying this album "Will to Power" so I will wait and order some of their previous albums after giving this one a good listen. As soon as I heard "the Race" I just knew I had to order this album and once I first hard that song I found myself head banging so hard in my bed that I slightly injured my head (hopefully not a concussion) from hitting my bed back rest very hard.
I ordered the album off of amazon and cannot wait to receive this album and play it the way it is meant to be played...in my truck which has a very decent sound system. Right now I am listening to this album on my crappy MacBook pro speakers and am still enjoying it...playing this album on a nice system will be a far better experience.

With this all mentioned...any recommendations as to what other "Arch Enemy" album I should order next that came out after Doomsday Machine? "War Eternal" has a couple of songs that caught my attention...especially the song "Time is Black". 

EDIT: Just now realizing that this thread is like over a year old...oh well I do not see the harm in bringing attention to "Arch Enemy" on the forum again as it seems like it has been ages since I have noticed anyone mention them in a long time.

"Doomsday Machine" was incredible and I should have kept up with them but the cool thing is...I have so much more "Arch Enemy" to catch up on now.


----------



## lewis (Nov 17, 2018)

peaked with DM and its been all down here from there. Quite how they convinced Loomis to join, then continue to completely under-use his talent is probably exactly whats wrong with the band now.


----------



## fps (Nov 17, 2018)

Look, Arch Enemy continue to be a gateway band for younger metal fans. It's you all who have got older, and the new material will blow some kid's mind like the older material blew yours. 

That said, the only really good record they've done for me is Doomsday Machine. That sh*t is catchy.


----------



## scratchNdentPrestige (Nov 17, 2018)

I actually like their newest release the Rapunk EP. Too bad the entire thing is only about 5 minutes long even with 4 songs, and no guitar solos! Still it is fun to listen to. I'd like to hear them do some sort of Garage Days Revisited type thing with a bunch of covers and minimal production. They've done a lot of covers in the past (even of their own stuff on The root of all evil), but I'd like to hear more with the current lineup.


----------



## jco5055 (Nov 17, 2018)

I first heard an AE song when I was 14 and I had a “doomsday machine” sampler from ordering some cds from nuclear blast(those were the days), and nemesis blew me away (it still is awesome)...then I checked out their old stuff and liked all the good/live favorites like ravenous, we will rise etc...this continued up until their last album with Chris and I think “Blood on your hands” is also a great song. Now they just sound so uninspired/“crank out an album every few years regardless if they’re fillers”, though I feel like even Anthems of Rebellion was like that for a lot of songs, as that’s the only album I ever bought.

I really feel like Chris is the missing piece of the puzzle, especially if they won’t let Jeff write fully within the band.


----------



## Hellbound (Nov 17, 2018)

fps said:


> Look, Arch Enemy continue to be a gateway band for younger metal fans. It's you all who have got older, and the new material will blow some kid's mind like the older material blew yours.
> 
> That said, the only really good record they've done for me is Doomsday Machine. That sh*t is catchy.


Age has nothing to do with an album being really good or crappy...if an album sucks it simply sucks and not because of an older person's ear making it seem like it sucks.


----------



## AdenM (Nov 17, 2018)

Chris should rejoin, or better yet, they should kill Arch Enemy in its current state of disrepair and Michael and Daniel should rejoin Carcass.


----------



## BrailleDecibel (Nov 17, 2018)

AdenM said:


> Chris should rejoin, or better yet, they should kill Arch Enemy in its current state of disrepair and Michael and Daniel should rejoin Carcass.


And that, ladies and djents, is how you render any further conversation in this thread to mere nitpickery.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Nov 17, 2018)

Alissa has also said she isn't allowed write and like Loomis her ideas are turned down by Michael. I know she got a bit more input this album but she was quite vocal about not having input on war eternal.


----------



## fps (Nov 18, 2018)

Hellbound said:


> Age has nothing to do with an album being really good or crappy...if an album sucks it simply sucks and not because of an older person's ear making it seem like it sucks.



Actually, it really does. If you've heard all the moves a band has to offer before a hundred times, or you've moved on into bands that do things better and explore music more deeply, then you'll feel disappointed when you head back out to the surface again. 

In contrast, if you've never heard a metal album before, new Arch Enemy may well be your epiphany, and a formative experience.


----------



## narad (Nov 18, 2018)

fps said:


> Actually, it really does. If you've heard all the moves a band has to offer before a hundred times, or you've moved on into bands that do things better and explore music more deeply, then you'll feel disappointed when you head back out to the surface again.
> 
> In contrast, if you've never heard a metal album before, new Arch Enemy may well be your epiphany, and a formative experience.



This is a very weird argument. Yes, someone who has never listened to metal before could find a new release by an established metal act and be blown away. They could also find the best albums by said act and be even MORE blown away. Something doesn't become "good" just because the person experiencing it is a noob. A "good" thing stands on its own.


----------



## Hellbound (Nov 18, 2018)

narad said:


> This is a very weird argument. Yes, someone who has never listened to metal before could find a new release by an established metal act and be blown away. They could also find the best albums by said act and be even MORE blown away. Something doesn't become "good" just because the person experiencing it is a noob. A "good" thing stands on its own.



A very weird argument indeed and one that makes no sense whatsoever. The only thing that will disappoint me from listening to an older album such as "Doomsday Machine" is that it is now boring to listen to being that I have heard it so many times...but it is still very much awesome. Again I do not get this argument...am I supposed to dislike certain music from a band I listen to once I turn a certain age? Also...in some cases it is the older albums that I"ll still love but in many if not most cases it is the newer material that I prefer...not always but mostly this is the case. Also...from what I have heard from newer material from "Arch Enemy" I am actually preferring this much more over their older stuff that I first got into...and I am much older now than when I first got into Arch Enemy.

I just ordered both "Will to Power" and "Khaos Legions" from Arch enemy on amazon and cannot wait to listen to both albums in my truck with my decent audio system. 
I will be ordering "War Eternal" next but really want to check these 2 albums out first.


----------



## InHiding (Nov 25, 2018)

Stigmata is the best. Didn’t this band die after Burning Bridges anyway?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 25, 2018)

InHiding said:


> Stigmata is the best. Didn’t this band die after Burning Bridges anyway?



Nah, they came back briefly a couple of years ago.


----------



## Vyn (Nov 25, 2018)

I remember getting into Arch Enemy when Rise of the Tyrant came out (there was a sample disc from a magazine that had one of the tracks on it so got the album based off of that). Still enjoy them, they still end up with at least one track on every playlist.


----------



## MFB (Nov 25, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Nah, they came back briefly a couple of years ago.



Boy am I sad that I missed this  I remember my brother getting a copy of Burning Bridges for Christmas at my dad's (RIP Strawberries music stores) and I wasn't crazy about it at the time as I only knew Angela's stuff; but now its my #1 Arch Enemy album, just rock solid from start to finish.


----------



## Xaios (Nov 26, 2018)

I truly don't know what people see in this band. I bought "Doomsday Machine" back in 2005 when it first came out. I had only really dived into metal head-first about a year before that, but even then, I was completely underwhelmed by what I heard. Compared to the other awesome melodic death metal albums that I'd been hearing up to that point (albums like "Colony", "Character", "Slaughter of the Soul", "A Celebration of Guilt," "Follow the Reaper," and most ironically "Heartwork"), I was honestly just bored by it, and absolutely *nothing* I've heard by them since then has changed my mind. I think it's at least in part because I find "I will overcome all the adversities" narratives in metal songs to be some of the most trite, hackneyed shit on the face of the earth, and that's pretty much every Arch Enemy song I've ever heard in a nutshell.


----------



## MFB (Nov 26, 2018)

Xaios said:


> I truly don't know what people see in this band. I bought "Doomsday Machine" back in 2005 when it first came out. I had only really dived into metal head-first about a year before that, but even then, I was completely underwhelmed by what I heard. Compared to the other awesome melodic death metal albums that I'd been hearing up to that point (albums like "Colony", "Character", "Slaughter of the Soul", "A Celebration of Guilt," "Follow the Reaper," and most ironically "Heartwork"), I was honestly just bored by it, and absolutely *nothing* I've heard by them since then has changed my mind. *I think it's at least in part because I find "I will overcome all the adversities" narratives in metal songs to be some of the most trite, hackneyed shit on the face of the earth, and that's pretty much every Arch Enemy song I've ever heard in a nutshell*.



It was at that point when you jumped in with them, until then the only album that really had that written in big bold letters was the ever appropriately named, _Anthems of Rebellion_, and even on there it was 50/50 for the songs; but once that one came out, they moved more towards that direction for the next three or so albums, which is why I fell off them. Doomsday Machine was the last one I cared about, and even that took a decade to sink in that it wasn't great, but it's still an average, listenable record from them.


----------



## cwhitey2 (Nov 26, 2018)

Xaios said:


> I truly don't know what people see in this band. I bought "Doomsday Machine" back in 2005 when it first came out. I had only really dived into metal head-first about a year before that, but even then, I was completely underwhelmed by what I heard. Compared to the other awesome melodic death metal albums that I'd been hearing up to that point (albums like "Colony", "Character", "Slaughter of the Soul", "A Celebration of Guilt," "Follow the Reaper," and most ironically "Heartwork"), I was honestly just bored by it, and absolutely *nothing* I've heard by them since then has changed my mind. I think it's at least in part because I find "I will overcome all the adversities" narratives in metal songs to be some of the most trite, hackneyed shit on the face of the earth, and that's pretty much every Arch Enemy song I've ever heard in a nutshell.


I'm with you.

Never understand the 'hype' behind this band. Everything is completely unappealing to me.


----------



## Vyn (Nov 26, 2018)

cwhitey2 said:


> I'm with you.
> 
> Never understand the 'hype' behind this band. Everything is completely unappealing to me.



Easy listening with plenty of hooks is probably one of the main reasons. It's like pop and death metal had a child.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Nov 26, 2018)

The new album has a lot of sections that could be straight out of an anime or cartoon. Anyone I showed the world is yours too said it felt like a Pokemon track, that instantly catchy style opener yet super cheesy.

I loved Wages of Sin since it was one of my first death metal albums, especially the bonus tracks with the old vocalist. It has so many amazing riffs and solos. The mix is huge too despite someone completely messing with it after andy sneap handed in the finished version. I only like a song or two of any albums after it. It's insane that they are one if not the biggest death metal bands right now.


----------



## Hellbound (Nov 26, 2018)

I've got to be honest...the only reason I just recently ordered their 3 albums "Will to Power", "War Eternal",...and "Khaos Legions" is because I was looking for some decent melodic death metal style music to add to my workout list for the gym and could not think of anyone to go with, and I just happened to find my "Doomsday Machine" album hiding in my truck's middle holder...so far this is perfect music to workout to...I do not mind the corny lyrics and sometimes odd sounding melodies but they do have some pretty catchy riffs that I really do like.
I must say that I am actually enjoying these albums much more than "Doomsday Machine" but I will keep "Nemesis" in my workout playlist. 

"Doomsday Machine" was the first album I purchased from them in 2007 and besides "Nemesis" which is an awesome song...I did not really care for the rest of the album so I never even bothered checking them out again until just recent.

I ran out of ideas of who to listen to while working out in the gym so I got curious to see what "Arch Enemy" had been up to since 2007 and being that it was cheap enough I just bought those 3 albums I just mentioned...these albums are also awesome for those days when I have nice long drives in my truck to just jam to...again they are far from being super great and all that but I do have to admit that I still do enjoy them. 

...kinda off topic but I also just recently purchased an album from a group called "Voice of Ruin" by the name of "Purge and Purify" who I found by accident recently who amazingly sound very much like "Arch Enemy" only heavier and they have more of an edge to them...I highly recommend them especially a song by them called "Snakes in my Head"...it is heavy and very well written. The guitars are superb as is the whole band. I actually made a separate thread regarding this band.

So now I have some awesome "Arch Enemy" and "Voice of Ruin" to workout to...also "Rise to Fall" is another great band to workout to who are also similar and I have all their albums except for their latest which I will be picking up. I have always loved this band since like 2012 when I first heard their song "Redrum" ...great stuff


----------



## Andromalia (Nov 26, 2018)

I'm likely going to get some hate for saying this, but Loomis is nothing special as a musician. Sure, he has pro chops, but every professional musician that isn't Kirk Hammett has those. The days of the self thaught dudes in their garages are over, there is a ton of classically trained people who can and want to play rock who fly circles above the rock stars of old. In classical music, _people like Broderick are the standard_. You get 80 Brodericks per orchestra.
Loomis released solo projects, they did'nt sell. End of story. Popular 'recent" bands make it through their imagery more than their music, really. And Loomis has none.


----------



## scratchNdentPrestige (Nov 26, 2018)

MFB said:


> Boy am I sad that I missed this  I remember my brother getting a copy of Burning Bridges for Christmas at my dad's (RIP Strawberries music stores) and I wasn't crazy about it at the time as I only knew Angela's stuff; but now its my #1 Arch Enemy album, just rock solid from start to finish.



That is a great album. I am a fan of the Liiva stuff for sure (but it doesn't detract from liking the newer stuff too). I really want to pick up a copy of Black Earth - 20 Years of Dark Insanity when I can find it for a reasonable price. 

Some of the criticism in this thread reminds me why I like mid career and newer AE. They do have some cheese, and some "fight the power/ overcome adversity" lyrics - and to me these are OK things. Of course I also like Manowar and Hammerfall.


----------



## p0ke (Nov 27, 2018)

Hellbound said:


> ...kinda off topic but I also just recently purchased an album from a group called "Voice of Ruin" by the name of "Purge and Purify" who I found by accident recently who amazingly sound very much like "Arch Enemy" only heavier and they have more of an edge to them...I highly recommend them especially a song by them called "Snakes in my Head"...it is heavy and very well written. The guitars are superb as is the whole band. I actually made a separate thread regarding this band



I don't really hear any resemblance to Arch Enemy, at least on Snakes in My Head (I haven't heard any other songs yet). This sounds like it could be an early Lamb of God song to me.


----------



## ArtDecade (Nov 27, 2018)

Andromalia said:


> I'm likely going to get some hate for saying this, but Loomis is nothing special as a musician. Sure, he has pro chops, but every professional musician that isn't Kirk Hammett has those. The days of the self thaught dudes in their garages are over, there is a ton of classically trained people who can and want to play rock who fly circles above the rock stars of old. In classical music, _people like Broderick are the standard_. You get 80 Brodericks per orchestra.
> Loomis released solo projects, they did'nt sell. End of story. Popular 'recent" bands make it through their imagery more than their music, really. And Loomis has none.



To compare the role of Loomis in a band and an oboist in a orchestra is misguided at best. Loomis is a song-writer *and* a soloist that is considered by many to be exceptional within the field that he operates. The musicians in an orchestra are not required to write - nor are they even asked interpret. The conductor is the interpreter of the work and the musicians in the orchestra are the conduits for his voice and the composer's work. Furthermore, not every classical musician is a soloist although they are all top-notch players. There are a handful of elite soloists in an orchestra - not eighty. Furthermore, what type of sales did you expect Loomis to achieve in this era where little music actually sells at all? His solo stuff is instrumental music with brutally heavy death metal backing tracks. The limited audience is already limited. .


----------



## Metropolis (Nov 27, 2018)

Ever heard of Nevermore? Loomis makes everything look so easy it's frightening... so effortless yet with aggressive feel is how I would describe his playing.

Still sounding like every other swedish melodeath band who started in the 90's would have been death of Arch Enemy. That's how I feel when listening to their first three albums.


----------



## Nonapod (Nov 27, 2018)

My favorite thing about Loomis isn't his solos (although I like those), it's his general riff writing. Throughout Nevermore and his solo projects he's composed some of my all time favorite heavy riffs. His writing is always interesting to me. It seems like he avoids falling into the generic metal riff trap by adding just a bit of complexity or off time feel or melodic counterpoint. 

Which is why I feel he's totally wasted in Arch Enemy. Amott doesn't let him contibute other than solos.


----------



## p0ke (Nov 28, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> Still sounding like every other swedish melodeath band who started in the 90's would have been death of Arch Enemy. That's how I feel when listening to their first three albums.



Agreed. I mean, they're instantly recognizable now, even before the vocals kick in, so they've done something very right. I just think they peaked around Wages of Sin - Anthems of Rebellion and have just been cashing in since then. I liked Doomsday Machine, but the downhill already started there IMO.


----------



## Veldar (Nov 29, 2018)

Kahos legions was advertised a lot in metal hammer when it was coming out and being a fresh metal head I got it as my first melo-death album. I haven't touched anything else they've done though.

And the new (now old) Carcass destroys Arch Enemy


----------



## JK-PA (Nov 29, 2018)

Veldar said:


> Kahos legions was advertised a lot in metal hammer when it was coming out and being a fresh metal head I got it as my first melo-death album. I haven't touched anything else they've done though.
> 
> And the new (now old) Carcass destroys Arch Enemy



Kinda the same for me, but I knew their older stuff and thought I would buy a good album, but Kahos Legions was really... boring, recycled stuff.
Didn't really care about the band since then, but I re-watched their live DVD from Japan a while back with my brother and we both were like "why the hell did we ever like this band".


----------



## Hellbound (Dec 8, 2018)

Just stumbled upon this and I am very much looking forward to it. 

https://www.loudersound.com/news/arch-enemy-reveal-new-album-covered-in-blood

EDIT: I just realized this will be a release of all the cover songs they have recorded throughout the years...oh well bummer...at least I am still enjoying their latest "Will to Power" album.


----------



## Flappydoodle (Dec 8, 2018)

Vyn said:


> Easy listening with plenty of hooks is probably one of the main reasons. It's like pop and death metal had a child.



You're right, and I think that totally makes sense. I bet Arch Enemy was an introduction to metal for a lot of people. They were definitely one of the bands which got me into the heavier side of things. Before that, it was mostly just Metallica. 

I think music has to be accessible. Nobody goes straight from listening to the top 40 into technical death metal with guttural vocals. There's a transition, and it's exactly where bands like Arch Enemy fit in. Having a hot female singer probably also helped their branding and publicity too, differentiating them from all the other bands at the same time. 



Lorcan Ward said:


> The new album has a lot of sections that could be straight out of an anime or cartoon. Anyone I showed the world is yours too said it felt like a Pokemon track, that instantly catchy style opener yet super cheesy.
> 
> I loved Wages of Sin since it was one of my first death metal albums, especially the bonus tracks with the old vocalist. It has so many amazing riffs and solos. The mix is huge too despite someone completely messing with it after andy sneap handed in the finished version. I only like a song or two of any albums after it. It's insane that they are one if not the biggest death metal bands right now.



Same here man. WOS was one of the first death metal albums I ever heard. Absolutely amazing. 

I do agree about the cheese factor, but as I said before, it's good for them to be accessible. We already have 3 people on this page saying Arch Enemy got them into death metal.


----------



## p0ke (Dec 11, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> I do agree about the cheese factor, but as I said before, it's good for them to be accessible. We already have 3 people on this page saying Arch Enemy got them into death metal.



I guess you can add me to into that count too. Wages of Sin was the first "proper" death metal album I listened to. I did listen to Children of Bodom before that, but their music is basically power metal in comparison  The first song I heard was The First Deadly Sin, a friend played the intro riff on guitar at band practice and I just went "wow, what's that?" and then went home and downloaded the album (probably from Kazaa or some other "awesome" system). I still think it's their best album.


----------



## The Mirror (Dec 11, 2018)

ArtDecade said:


> To compare the role of Loomis in a band and an oboist in a orchestra is misguided at best.



I am a bit late to the discussion, but I'll add this never the less.

If Andromalia can give an example for an orchestra player who can write stuff like the Born chorus, The River Dragon Has Come or that one riff (you all know it) in This Godless Endeavor, I'll name him the best orchestra player ever.

Loomis has one dedicated style, which I agree can become monotone after a while, but he nailed that style to a T.


----------



## Andromalia (Dec 11, 2018)

The Mirror said:


> I am a bit late to the discussion, but I'll add this never the less.
> 
> If Andromalia can give an example for an orchestra player who can write stuff like the Born chorus, The River Dragon Has Come or that one riff (you all know it) in This Godless Endeavor, I'll name him the best orchestra player ever.
> 
> Loomis has one dedicated style, which I agree can become monotone after a while, but he nailed that style to a T.



Uh, my father wrote a few chamber music pieces and played them for 30 years yes, including a good dozen records. Which sold very well... for classical music records. Understand I have seen classical musicians play, rehearse, teach and perform since I was in age of making the difference between music and noise. I had my first violin at 4. My father was a viola solist in the Opera de Paris. I had Seiji Ozawa and a few other famous people for lunch at home when I was a kid. Sorry for the name dropping but you seem to require that. Most rock instrumentists are a joke. Not that they play badly, but they can't do the most basic things: write a song with a pen without touching their intrument, say. Vai can, Malmsteen and Petrucci most likely can, some others I don't know that got a classical background can be added to the mix, and that's it.
Oh, and for the sake of argument, the "basic orchestra oboist" likely has more chops than your average guitar soloist.


----------



## Supernaut (Dec 11, 2018)

I hate this "my genres" player has a bigger penis than yours - It's utterly pointless.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Dec 11, 2018)

Especially when most orchestra musicians never write anything anyone will ever hear....


----------



## noob_pwn (Dec 11, 2018)

Chiming in a little OT. I was a big Arch Enemy fan back in the day, namely the anthems/doomsday era.

I hadn't listened to them in years and by chance was on a festival in Germany which they were closing last year to about 50,000 people. They absolutely blew me away. Alyssa was pure goddess-mode. Seriously one of the best vocal performances i have EVER witnessed. She was incredibly captivating and sounded phenomenal. One of the best people fronting any band at the moment in my opinion.

I'm still curious to see what happens next. If you get a chance to see them play live you should take the opportunity.


----------



## Flappydoodle (Dec 13, 2018)

Andromalia said:


> Uh, my father wrote a few chamber music pieces and played them for 30 years yes, including a good dozen records. Which sold very well... for classical music records. Understand I have seen classical musicians play, rehearse, teach and perform since I was in age of making the difference between music and noise. I had my first violin at 4. My father was a viola solist in the Opera de Paris. I had Seiji Ozawa and a few other famous people for lunch at home when I was a kid. Sorry for the name dropping but you seem to require that. Most rock instrumentists are a joke. Not that they play badly, but they can't do the most basic things: write a song with a pen without touching their intrument, say. Vai can, Malmsteen and Petrucci most likely can, some others I don't know that got a classical background can be added to the mix, and that's it.
> Oh, and for the sake of argument, the "basic orchestra oboist" likely has more chops than your average guitar soloist.



Totally agree with you that ANY member of an orchestra is more musically talented and has better skills than the vast vast majority of famous guitarists. 

Also, an interesting fact that I learned yesterday. People in orchestras earn way more than most people think. Average salary in a city orchestra was like $250,000 per year. For positions which are in demand, it can be up to $500k/yr. That's more than most "shredders" will be making. You'd need to be in a commercially successful band to make that from metal music.

I was surprised at first, but then it actually makes sense. There are not many orchestras around. And each orchestra doesn't have that many people. And it's REALLY hard to get in.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 13, 2018)




----------



## groverj3 (Dec 14, 2018)

Flappydoodle said:


> Totally agree with you that ANY member of an orchestra is more musically talented and has better skills than the vast vast majority of famous guitarists.
> 
> Also, an interesting fact that I learned yesterday. People in orchestras earn way more than most people think. Average salary in a city orchestra was like $250,000 per year. For positions which are in demand, it can be up to $500k/yr. That's more than most "shredders" will be making. You'd need to be in a commercially successful band to make that from metal music.
> 
> I was surprised at first, but then it actually makes sense. There are not many orchestras around. And each orchestra doesn't have that many people. And it's REALLY hard to get in.



This is 100% true, but it also depends on the level you're at. What city you're in. Someone in an orchestra in a major city will make that money, but your midsize cities, not so much.

I actually really liked Wages of Sin back in the day, and Doomsday Machine a close second. That intro on Doomsday Machine is perfect. They got less interesting after Rise of the Tyrant, and that probably correlates with Michael Amott taking over essentially 100% of songwriting. You can tell the parts he contributed in the past are now almost all of their sound on the past two albums. However, I'll still check out what they do in the future. Loomis adding to the writing would be far more interesting, but that's not going to happen it seems.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 14, 2018)

Wages of Sin is still a killer record. Probably my favorite from the post-Liiva era. It doesn't sound like the Liiva era, but it still is awesome.


----------



## Andromalia (Dec 14, 2018)

> Average salary in a city orchestra was like $250,000 per year



That's a bit of an overestimate I think, My father was well paid but I'd estimate it more towards 120Kish € in today's money (rough estimate in level of living in Europe, basically 10 times the minimum salary), and he was a second solist in one of the best orchestras in the world. There is however added revenue from teaching etc, which isn't 50€/hour.

And yes, when there are openings, the daggers are drawn in the corridors.


----------

