# Ibanez J Custom lacking snap



## Laimon (Oct 18, 2016)

Hi guys, so I have this Ibanez J Custom 7 string (specifically, an rg8527), it's a hell of a guitar, sounds great and plays like butter, but I have always found it lacking some snap, a more defined and prominent attack.
I have tried to improve this of course starting from the amp tone, but also changing pickups a few times (went from stock PAFs to DiMarzio Crunchlab and Liquifire, and now I replaced the CL with a DiMarzio X2N), and I even tried replacing the stock tremolo block with a brass block. All these got me a tad bit closer, but still the snap is nowhere near my Mayones Regius or my EBMM JPs. 
For the record, the guitar is Mahogany body, Flamed Maple top, Maple+Bubinga neck, and Indian Rosewood fretboard. I know some don't buy the tonewood story, but for those who do here's the info. Also, frets are Nickel Jumbos, still for the record.
Do you have any recommendation on how to improve the guitar's snap?
Thanks!


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## cardinal (Oct 18, 2016)

I had a similar J Custom (RG8127), and it was just a darker, smoother guitar. That's just the way it was. 

One thing that really added some attack and snap, for me: swapping to an Original Floyd Rose. The Ibanez zink trem is just a warm, round sounding thing. The steel OFR will add some zing. I had to lightly file down the treble-side of the OFR baseplate, but otherwise it fit great. 

Pickups and electronics can make it sound brighter, but the attack of the guitar is something different.


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## Mike (Oct 18, 2016)

I'd probably put a D Activator or an Evolution in the bridge over the X2N. They're both tighter, brighter, and more articulate than the X2N. Better for fast, precise pick attack that cuts through. You could also mess around with pickup height if you haven't already and see where the X2N sounds best on your guitar. Usually further from the strings with such a hot pickup does some good.

You could also mess with the electronics a little bit. Maybe try 1 meg pots or removing the tone from the circuit if you don't use it to keep more of the high end in your signal.


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## feraledge (Oct 18, 2016)

Mahogany body sounds like the culprit. Only solution would be going for a more aggressive pickup I would think. Maybe a Black Winter?


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 18, 2016)

J-customs are warm guitars, amazing for lead playing but you need a bright ceramic for tight rhythm playing. Seymour Duncans work really well.


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## Underworld (Oct 18, 2016)

I have that same model and it is, by default, a smooth sounding guitar. You'll need some seriously agressive pickups - I put Duncan's Black Winter in mine. Since then, my JP7 gets close to none playtime.


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## odibrom (Oct 18, 2016)

I have 2 RG2027X (mahogany body, maple neck and rosewood fretboard) and one is definitely brighter than the other. Besides the pickups, The volume pot on the brighter one is not original, but on the 500k ohms ballpark. In the bright one I have DiMarzio's Blaze Neck and Blaze Custom, the darker sounding one is loaded with DiMarzio's Air Norton and D-Sonic. I received some 1meg pots to try out on both and I'll see soon how they react.

The brighter one is really lovely and doesn't miss any snap or high end tone loss. I did not change their trem's blocks, by the way.

First things first, on your scenario, I'd change the volume pot for a better quality 500k or even 1 meg ohms. They do make a huge difference.

If possible, investigate the Blaze Neck and Custom pickups. They sure rock.


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## PBGas (Oct 18, 2016)

Out of curiousity, which bridge is on the guitar?


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## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 19, 2016)

Your guitar sounds like it has a dark tonality thanks to mahogany, but some bright sounding pickups would do that. 

D-Activators or Evo7s would do the trick, but I'm thinking more towards the Duncan side where the mid's aren't as over pronounced as Dimarzios. JB7 or Pegasus would be great for the bridge, while Sentient or Jazz for neck. 



PBGas said:


> Out of curiousity, which bridge is on the guitar?



Also this. I'm assuming Edge Pro?


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## odibrom (Oct 19, 2016)

Again, change the volume pot for a better quality one. 1meg should do the trick well. It's the cheapest solution...


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## jrui (Oct 19, 2016)

I don't know exactly what do you mean "snap" here . 
which jp do you have ? I guess it's not the mahogany block ones.

mayones actually is a swamp ash + maple neck thru kind of style sounding.
I guess your jp is the basswood one .

generally mahogany body guitar have slower attack , maybe that's what you mean, lack some "snap" , if you wanna a quicker response , my answer is that's the essential of this guitar, she's always thick and warm and have quite a lot of low end. 
I play metal all the time, I need sharp attack which means "snap" too, I changed my 8527z to illuminator for a while and that sounds very good to me ,very snapy . but finally I ended up with EMG's again , for they have the thundering/quicker response that I could't give up.


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## Laimon (Oct 19, 2016)

Hey guys, thanks for all your replies!
Somehow the mail notification isn't working for me, so I thought nobody had an opinion 



feraledge said:


> Mahogany body sounds like the culprit



Yes and no. I believe mahogany does contribute to the warmer timbre, but answering 


jrui said:


> which jp do you have ? I guess it's not the mahogany block ones.



I have a JP7 Koa, that is practically all mahogany (also the neck is), and yet it has way more snap.

I believe this really comes to a good extent from the bridge. I was wondering if there was something less radical than swapping the bridge altogether, like maybe changing saddles only. 



PBGas said:


> Out of curiousity, which bridge is on the guitar?





Bloody_Inferno said:


> I'm assuming Edge Pro?



No, it's actually a Lo Pro Edge:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ibanez_Lo_Pro_Edge_7.jpg



Lorcan Ward said:


> J-customs are warm guitars, amazing for lead playing but you need a bright ceramic for tight rhythm playing. Seymour Duncans work really well.



The Custom 5 seem to be very articulated without sounding thin. Maybe that could be a good choice?


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## odibrom (Oct 19, 2016)

... I find the basswood hardtail guitars I have warmer than my Floyded mahogany ones. OK, all pickups are different, but they sound really darker.

By the way, last night I changed the volume pot on the darker mahogany and it ain't darker anymore, it got a 1meg vol pot. Also, got to see the original pot and it was a smaller kind of pot, like those mini Gotoh volumes that Thomann sells. CTS 1meg log pot rocking now and the guitar couldn't be happier.

Do try swapping the volume pot.


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## Laimon (Oct 19, 2016)

odibrom said:


> Do try swapping the volume pot.



Yes, right, I forgot to comment on that suggestion, but I will surely do! 

EDIT:
And also, I did disconnect the tone pot already...it does let more highs go through, but does not really make a big impact on letting the attack cut through better.
And in fact, I also tried just connecting the output of the 5 way switch straight to he output jack...it was even brighter, sure, but not as noticeably as after disconnecting the tone pot. Also, like in that case, attack does not get any particular extra snap


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## PBGas (Oct 19, 2016)

Sometimes you just get some pieces of wood that don't work as well together. I have had a bunch of J Customs for the last 10 years. While they all feel amazing and most were outstanding, I did have one that just wasn't right. I tried a few things but none of it made all that much of a difference.


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## cardinal (Oct 19, 2016)

Electronics can make it sound more trebly or brighter. But not really add "snap."

I'd try swapping the Lo Pro for a steel OFR. When I did, it made a big difference. Notes jumped out faster and sharper. Tightened up the tone.


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## odibrom (Oct 19, 2016)

Could it be a matter of improper set-up? Maybe some fret levelling needed and/or truss rod adjustment?

I find it hard to believe a guitar like that won't snap enough. My LoPros work as expected and deliver the attack with no delay.

Had a rehearsal today at a rental kind of studio, only took my guitar and used the studio's amp (a Peavey Valking 100W Head with 2x 412), which I've never tried before. Sometimes, in the cleans settings, my guitar was simple unheard, mostly because of the amp's settings and because it is needing some new setup. Besides that, I had no problem with the guitar's attack. Have you tried compressors and boosts to compensate?

It may just be you got a prestige branded lemon...


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## Given To Fly (Oct 19, 2016)

What strings do you use on your J-Custom? I would imagine strings play a large role in the amount of "snap" the guitar produces. For the record, I have no idea what "snap" is, but I feel like "snap" would be the opposite of "dull, dead, or lifeless."


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## Forkface (Oct 19, 2016)

lol funny i found this thread, i have pretty much the same guitar (albeit the tight-end version) and i feel the same way sometimes. For leads its heavenly, but for tight rhythm it lacks punch and presence, brightness, something. 

I too will swap to black winters, lets see how that goes.


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## pylyo (Oct 20, 2016)

No pickup gonna solve this. It's the matter of bridge saddles and bridge itself.
Had the same "issue" on both PRS modern eagles 1, I sold one because I tried everything without success, except changing the bridge. I finally changed the bridge on the other and sorted it out.
Both guitars had PRS wrap around stoptails and just sounded way to dark and smooth on the higher end and after I changed it on the other one, it came really alive.
Strings can brighten it a bit too but the biggest player is the bridge.

Also, I find pretty much any FR style bridge to have this issue and that's why I disslike them and avoid. For me this is a very important thing on a guitar..


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## Laimon (Oct 20, 2016)

cardinal said:


> Electronics can make it sound more trebly or brighter. But not really add "snap."
> 
> I'd try swapping the Lo Pro for a steel OFR. When I did, it made a big difference. Notes jumped out faster and sharper. Tightened up the tone.





pylyo said:


> No pickup gonna solve this. It's the matter of bridge saddles and bridge itself.
> Strings can brighten it a bit too but the biggest player is the bridge.



That's also my impression, alas - alas because I doubt I would go as far as swapping the bridge, it would take quite some research to make sure it fits the cavity and all.



odibrom said:


> It may just be you got a prestige branded lemon...



No lemon for sure.



Given To Fly said:


> What strings do you use on your J-Custom? I would imagine strings play a large role in the amount of "snap" the guitar produces. For the record, I have no idea what "snap" is, but I feel like "snap" would be the opposite of "dull, dead, or lifeless."



D'addario NYXL, like on all my other guitars.
I wouldn't really say the attack is "dull" (let alone dead or lifeless), I would probably say that it's more on the subdued side than I would like.



Forkface said:


> i have pretty much the same guitar (albeit the tight-end version) and i feel the same way sometimes. For leads its heavenly, but for tight rhythm it lacks punch and presence, brightness, something



My feeling exactly.


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## Laimon (Oct 20, 2016)

Actually, I just found this:

http://forum.ibanez.com/yaf_postst83402_What-trem-goes-into-what-cavity---MUST-SEE.aspx

where it's claimed that the Edge-Pro fits in the LoPro Edge cavity, so the immediate question is, if anyone knows: is the Edge-Pro any snappier? And if so, enough to justify swapping the bridge?


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## cardinal (Oct 20, 2016)

Both are big zinc bridges. 

An OFR7 fits into the Lo Pro 7 cavity if you just sand down the treble-side of the OFR7 baseplate a bit. (I've had an OFR7 on an old UV7BK and my RG8127 because I preferred their tone).


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## Laimon (Oct 20, 2016)

cardinal said:


> Both are big zinc bridges.
> 
> An OFR7 fits into the Lo Pro 7 cavity if you just sand down the treble-side of the OFR7 baseplate a bit. (I've had an OFR7 on an old UV7BK and my RG8127 because I preferred their tone).



Like this, I imagine:

http://www.floydrose.com/catalog/tremolos/7:original-series/original-7-string

You mean that one has to sand down the tremolo block? Or really the baseplate?
And will it work with the original pivots or will I need to replace them too?


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## cardinal (Oct 20, 2016)

Not the block, the baseplate itself. It worked fine on the Ibanez pivots. The Floyd baseplate is forgiving about stud spacing because the bass-side knife edge is just flat.


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## odibrom (Oct 20, 2016)

cardinal said:


> Not the block, the baseplate itself. It worked fine on the Ibanez pivots. The Floyd baseplate is forgiving about stud spacing because the bass-side knife edge is just flat.



... as on most floyd units I've seen, Shaller, Ibanez, Graphtech...

I understand people want to change bridges and stuff, but I still find it a little like a crime done to a guitar of that level... It would almost be like routing for active pickups (ok, it's not, it is a reversible mod)...


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## Jeffbro (Oct 20, 2016)

Yeah going through that much to fit a floyd 1. waste of money, 2. waste of time. 3 looks wrong. 4. adds no resale value (decreases a lot if you lose the edge). 5. probably won't fix the issue, sounds like a combination of woods, pickups, amp etc

The whole floyd vs edge tone difference is purely speculation


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## Laimon (Oct 21, 2016)

cardinal said:


> Not the block, the baseplate itself. It worked fine on the Ibanez pivots. The Floyd baseplate is forgiving about stud spacing because the bass-side knife edge is just flat.



How about this? 

https://reverb.com/ch/item/1046047-floyd-rose-1000-series-pro-7-string-tremolo-system-black-nickel

This is the one I think would fit best. However, a) the bass-side knife edge is not flat, so I gotta be 100% sure spacing is identical to the Lo Pro Edge, and b) I am not sure how sanding would work out. I don't even know how one does that! (by hand? Some tool?)



Jeffbro said:


> The whole floyd vs edge tone difference is purely speculation



I have tried (and also own, in a few cases) guitars that are virtually the same regarding woods, pickups, and construction type, and while they resonate similarly their attack is way different, the main discriminant being the bridge.
Vice versa, take my JP6 and JP7, they have completely different woods (Alder body + Maple top + Mahogany neck + Rosewood fretboard vs Mahogany body + Koa top + Mahogany neck + Ebony fretboard), they resonate very differently, but the spank when you pick notes is basically the same. 
It might be all coincidences, sure...but my limited experience makes me disagree with your statement :\


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## cardinal (Oct 21, 2016)

Jeffbro said:


> Yeah going through that much to fit a floyd 1. waste of money, 2. waste of time. 3 looks wrong. 4. adds no resale value (decreases a lot if you lose the edge). 5. probably won't fix the issue, sounds like a combination of woods, pickups, amp etc
> 
> The whole floyd vs edge tone difference is purely speculation



Not speculation. I've swapped an OFR7 onto a UV7BK and RG8127. It added the "snap" that I thought was lacking. I swapped the original bridge back when I sold them. 

Not saying it'll work for the OP, but it worked for me. 

And honestly it's EASIER than switching pickups or pots. If you can change strings, you can change the bridge.


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## sojorel (Oct 21, 2016)

I have the same guitar (with lo pro) and have never had any 'lack of snap' problems.

I have the tremolo blocked which might help a bit too. It has a sentient/pegasus set in it which isn't the brightest bridge pickup and sounds good. More than enough attack.

The guitar was quite clear when i got it too with the stock pickups and I attributed it to the proper maple cap.


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## odibrom (Oct 23, 2016)

Let's not forget that Ibanez added "metal inserts" to the saddles of their Edge Pro trems (not sure here, please correct), stating something like "clearer tone" (also, please correct me)...

I must also say that my 7 string LoPros are loaded with piezos, which make them a different kind of trem since the string's contact is made in a different material...


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## klinic (Oct 23, 2016)

I would definitely not change a Lo-Pro Edge to an Edge Pro, OFR, or anything else for that matter other than an original Edge. I've found that Ibanez bridges (apart from the edge zero and edge pro) just seem to vibrate better and be made of different materials. I've never actually tried a bunch of different tremolos in the same guitar, so my opinion might not mean that much as the differences could have been down to the guitars and not just the bridge, but I've never gelled with or liked the sound of a locking tremolo other than the lo-pro and original edges.

Of course that doesn't do anything for snap, so maybe just completely ignore me and try it and see if it works!


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## Laimon (Oct 24, 2016)

odibrom said:


> Let's not forget that Ibanez added "metal inserts" to the saddles of their Edge Pro trems (not sure here, please correct), stating something like "clearer tone" (also, please correct me)...



I would probably be willing to try those, far less dramatic change than the whole bridge, and might add a little sparkle. Does anyone know how to find them?


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## 1b4n3z (Oct 24, 2016)

My two 8470's are both little mellower than essentially similar 3120's I've had. 8470's have Edge Pros, 3120's had Edge Lo-Pros - but I had one with an Edge Pro and it sounded acoustically the same as Lo-Pro versions. The JC's seem to have a deeper and fuller tone all round whereas 3120's were very snappy and bright. Acoustically that is. Amplified the difference was not as noticeable - though I haven't found a DiMarzio I like yet. Duncans seem to provide a better attack by default, so I have used them almost exclusively


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## macgruber (Oct 25, 2016)

i've had a ibanez prestige that seemed a bit dead acoustically, it was a fixed bridge too. i think you'd be best putting in a really bright pickup in the bridge position, maybe a blackwater neodymium or a d-activator neck. that'd certainly help compensate for the lack of snap when played through an amp.


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## ToneLab (Oct 25, 2016)

I have a J Custom 6 string - same issue. Came with SH 14 (Custom 5) - which I love in another guitar I have but in this guitar very dark no snap. Swapped to SH 5 (Custom) and it is a little better but still very dark. Further, on leads as you switch up through the selector to neck (Jazz) it gets very thin and brittle very fast. Worse - the pickup routings are specific to SD - Dimarzios don't fit. Beauty of a guitar and plays great.


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## odibrom (Oct 26, 2016)

...so, just another thought on this... we've talked about pickups, strings, bridges... how about experimenting with picks to better the guitar's attack?


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## Laimon (Nov 5, 2016)

Btw, today I installed a D-Activator 7 in the bridge, and that did really *A LOT*  it's probably premature to say it totally solved the problem, but I spent a few hours on it and it really tightened everything up, opened up the tone, made every note more distinct. Love it so far!


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## BubbleWrap (Nov 6, 2016)

Dear god, reading this thread has been painful. You can buy aftermarket tremolo blocks from various companies made of different materials, which will deliver different types of tone and response. I'd recommend a harder metal like stainless steel or titanium to add some brightness and sharpen pick attack.


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## endmysuffering (Nov 6, 2016)

Put a nazgul up in there.


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## Laimon (Nov 6, 2016)

BubbleWrap said:


> Dear god, reading this thread has been painful.



Why so?


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## odibrom (Nov 6, 2016)

Laimon said:


> Why so?




Because of what he wrote next...? Glad to hear you solved your problem with the DActivator. For moments I thought you were really going to change your trem unit for an OFR one...

I have never dealt with trem blocks changes, so I cannot speak about it, but there are guys out there who say these things change the guitar's tone like night and day...


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## Wizard of Ozz (Nov 6, 2016)

Just a random thought... Have you adjusted the pickups height? 

Try getting them closer to the strings... Almost but not touching and see if that helps. Otherwise it's no-good wood. It happens sometimes especially with mahogany. I tend to avoid mahogany guitars now after years of playing PRS and Gibson. I had a Jackson USA Broderick that sounded like this. Too warm, round, and smooth. Not my bag at all.


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## Laimon (Nov 7, 2016)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Just a random thought... Have you adjusted the pickups height?



Of course ;-)



Wizard of Ozz said:


> Otherwise it's no-good wood. It happens sometimes especially with mahogany. I tend to avoid mahogany guitars now after years of playing PRS and Gibson. I had a Jackson USA Broderick that sounded like this. Too warm, round, and smooth. Not my bag at all.



I wouldn't call it "no-good wood", it is quite nice actually, just quite a bit on the warm side. This D-Activator seems to be doing wonders to balance that


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## Orionsbelt456 (Nov 20, 2016)

I'm putting a set of emg 57/66 in my jcrg next week. I hope it slays after the install!


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## odibrom (Nov 20, 2016)

Orionsbelt456 said:


> I'm putting a set of emg 57/66 in my jcrg next week. I hope it slays after the install!



Sacrilege!!!!... please don't 


... of course, do as you will...


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## ToneLab (Nov 23, 2016)

I just put a set of BWs in my J Custom RG8420. It definitely brought the guitar to life.


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## Ziricote (Nov 23, 2016)

Maple neck with thick not thin Mahogany body can do better with actual thick maple top or thinner bodies. This guitars are not recipe for snap tone


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