# Ibanez RGA8 for Jazz?!? Am I crazy? (string/pup question also)



## DropDizzle (Jul 8, 2012)

I am predominantly a jazz guitarist that enjoys the occasional shred/djent/riff.

I play a lot of walking bass lines on my jazz box and decided that i would love to have an 8 just for the extra depth, plus it'd be sweet for fusion, little brighter tone. Wanted to post a few vids here when work calms down also, just for something different on the site.

Anyway, my buddy works in a music store and cut me a great deal on an RGA8 that i couldn't pass up.

I haven't got it yet but im trying to research strings and pups so I know where to go with it when i get it in. As far as what I hear I'm going to be terribly disappointed with the stock pups, so what do you guys suggest i look into for a solid body wanting warm deep jazz tone? 

I also have no problem being on 12 gauge strings, so whats the scale of something like 10-74 going to 12-??, maybe something like 80? I've heard of one dude on here with 90 on the low f# and that interests me a lot.


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## celticelk (Jul 9, 2012)

If you want jazz tone, you might look into the Lace X-Bars, which are essentially active-pickup-sized P-90s. Some of the vintage-voiced 8-string BKPs would probably work as well, but you'll need conversion rings to fill the space in the routes.

For strings, check a tension calculator; there are a few available on the web. I usually prefer 11s on my standard-scale electrics, and I have a 10-74 set on my 27" OAF 8-string to approximate that tension, so I'm guessing that something in the 11-85 range is probably going to work for you for F# standard. D'Addario makes flatwounds in those gauges as well (as singles - you won't find a flatwound 8 set), and probably others do too, so that's an option should you prefer that tone.

And please, post vids! It'd be nice to see more material that doesn't fall into the "ERG br00tz" stereotype.


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## DropDizzle (Jul 9, 2012)

Yeah, dont get me wrong, a good chug is always fun, but its so much more engaging (to me) to use knowledge and voice beautiful chords and stuff.

I had no idea they made a p90 8 string pup. Every tone test on a p90 I've heard I've definitely had a few eargasms  I will definitely look into that.


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## 7stringDemon (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm also voting for the X-Bars. Or any 8 string P90 you can find. I just love the sweetness of their tone! And I've always wanted to hear an 8 string eith them. I'd also like pics and video/clips of this


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## danresn (Jul 10, 2012)

I'd like to point out that the first genre eight string electrics were used in is jazz, same with seven. It wasn't until later that metal took over.


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## DjentDjentlalala (Jul 10, 2012)

bass pickups for cleans? just an idea.


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## Daken1134 (Jul 10, 2012)

they work fine for me. ide say (depending on the kind of jazz sound you want) go with a Dimarzio PAF8, its easy to get that really clean metheny or martino sound with it. but if your going for like... the pizzarelli almost acoustic souding quick strums im not sure. but the 8 is fun as hell for clean and jazz stuff


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## DropDizzle (Jul 10, 2012)

The first time i heard Pizzarelli was live and he blew my mind lol. Love his tone much more than metheny or martino. I dig the "classic" jazz style (oscar peterson w/ herb ellis is pure gold)

^Thats actually kind of what im expecting from this guitar, a good clean solid body sound.

After hearing clips of Dmarzio's and Lundgren's (all distorted so hard to tell), I seem to be hearing tons of good stuff about the Xbars, so I believe I will go with those (especially for the price, 115 a pop isnt bad)

Vids to follow on the Jazz subforum when its all done.


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## Daken1134 (Jul 10, 2012)

Yeah im definitely more a martino kinda guy, i love that thick dead sound. and pizzarelli... my god... saw him live a few months ago and was blown away. also being a guitarist who plays mainly Extended range guitars and loves jazz and is an italian from new jersey but not a jersey shore douche.... i definately have a soft spot in my heart for Mr P.


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## DropDizzle (Jul 11, 2012)

I love him so much for having so much class in his play style. Never "over the top" yet always pushing the limit. I dont find it terribly unbelieveable that he sings everything he solos, (though many metalheads might haha) it is so necessary for great melody to sing what you play. I feel he is Nat King Cole meets Freddy Green and learned from Uncle Joe Pass.

Don't expect my vids to look anything like him lol


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## Daken1134 (Jul 12, 2012)

no i did a fair amount of jazz training and its not tough to sing what you play, but when i saw him (and i never saw this in videos) he harmonized his guitar lines with his voice, THAT was impressive. the man is amazing.


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## DropDizzle (Jul 12, 2012)

Daken1134 said:


> ) he harmonized his guitar lines with his voice,




I did hear that live also. If you think thats impressive, sax players (or other woodwinds) will sometimes sing a harmony to the lines they are playing. Idk if you've ever played a wind instrument but essentially to get great tone your mouth and throat have to be in a fixed position. To change notes while singing you have to change the shape of your throat (in essence, just keeping it short).
It blows my mind (as a sax player) when people can maintain a beautiful tone and harmonize their lines. I believe its called multiphonics.


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## Sam MJ (Jul 15, 2012)

DropDizzle said:


> It blows my mind (as a sax player) when people can maintain a beautiful tone and harmonize their lines. I believe its called multiphonics.


 
That or wizardry 

I've just started exploring jazz, does anyone have any recommendations for a simple jazz peice that I could have a go at?

Thanks!

On topic; I've found a great jazz tone with my 7621 by just using the neck pickup and rolling down the tone a little, but the new7s are pretty bassy pickups anyway so I don't know if that would be enough with other pickups .


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## DropDizzle (Jul 16, 2012)

Sam MJ said:


> That or wizardry
> 
> I've just started exploring jazz, does anyone have any recommendations for a simple jazz peice that I could have a go at?
> 
> ...





Autumn leaves is a great tune for ii-v-i's. Getting into blues that has ii-v-i's in it is also a great idea... assuming you've done a lot of blues already.

How high the moon is also a great one to start bebop.

Those two are great fun. Then you can look up back tracks on YouTube and get down some scales and have at. You can PM me too if you want more info.


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## Sam MJ (Jul 17, 2012)

DropDizzle said:


> Autumn leaves is a great tune for ii-v-i's. Getting into blues that has ii-v-i's in it is also a great idea... assuming you've done a lot of blues already.
> 
> How high the moon is also a great one to start bebop.
> 
> Those two are great fun. Then you can look up back tracks on YouTube and get down some scales and have at. You can PM me too if you want more info.


 
Thanks! i'll give them a go


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## agengxsi (Jul 31, 2012)

the finishing tune and deadly weapon always GIANT STEPS hihihi


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## DropDizzle (Jul 31, 2012)

Yes giant steps but not as a starting tune. I think its so drastic of a change from most standards that it may confuse a new jazz player. Getting a handle on 2-5-1 s really makes a difference in the scope of long term jazz playing.


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## Trespass (Aug 1, 2012)

DropDizzle said:


> Yes giant steps but not as a starting tune. I think its so drastic of a change from most standards that it may confuse a new jazz player. Getting a handle on 2-5-1 s really makes a difference in the scope of long term jazz playing.



(It depends on how committed they are on learning jazz, but

Why not? It forces new players to think over each chord and understand the differences in their qualities, not just key center = scale.

Practicing Giant Steps at a slow tempo in four different keys covers pretty much everything, while keeping you musical and within a 32 bar format. I get bored to tears practicing Autumn Leaves in 12 keys.

This is opposed to playing cycle of 4th II-V-Is, chromatically ascending II-V-Is etc.

Harder in the short term, but definitely more rewarding.

On the converse, in terms of subbing interesting scales over minor chords, Blue Bossa going up a semitone each chorus is a great exercise, especially if it's at a quick tempo.


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## DropDizzle (Aug 5, 2012)

Trespass said:


> (It depends on how committed they are on learning jazz, but
> 
> Why not? It forces new players to think over each chord and understand the differences in their qualities, not just key center = scale.
> 
> ...



well, yes. When i said starting tune i was implying like first 5 tunes.

someone should definitely get down giant steps in repertoire. and even early on is great. im just not sure someone could wrap their head around it as an early jazz player. if he wants the challenge, go for it. I know if i had started on that tune i would've thought jazz was impossible haha.


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## Trespass (Aug 6, 2012)

I don't get it. You should be able to handle II-V-Is. Moment's Notice and Giant Steps are all just II-V-Is, no unusal harmony, and don't have inconsistent or unorthodox key center movement, with incredibly straightforward harmonic rhyhtmn (one chord per bar). It's all fairly straightforward stuff you'll find in 30-40s jazz standards, just fast.

I'd say tunes like Body and Soul, When Sunny Get's Blue are harder by virtue of the fact that it sandbags you with uneven harmonic rhythm and unorthodox movement at times. While you may be able to nail playing over this uneven rhythm, trying to sound melodic or resorting to cliches can be quite difficult.


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## DropDizzle (Aug 8, 2012)

Why would you suggest to someone who says "i just started jazz" to dive into giant steps? yes it is ii-V-I's. But because of the tritone subs and quick tempo it may not be the best. yes, if he wants a challenge go for it. I still contend as one the first few tunes it may be discouraging.

Even though the end result is quite fun.


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## MartinMTL (Aug 23, 2012)

^Yup. I have no idea how Giant Steps could be considered a good starting song for jazz musicians. I just started learning jazz, and that thing is impossible. Improving over the changes in that song is a nightmare. I am going to stick with standard II-V-I's with one tonal center for now...


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## Trespass (Aug 23, 2012)

DropDizzle said:


> Why would you suggest to someone who says "i just started jazz" to dive into giant steps? yes it is ii-V-I's. But because of the tritone subs and quick tempo it may not be the best. yes, if he wants a challenge go for it. I still contend as one the first few tunes it may be discouraging.
> 
> Even though the end result is quite fun.



What are you talking about? There are no tritone subs in the written changes of Giant Steps. You do not have to play it fast. It sounds great as a ballad.

For the record, Metheny did it as a ballad.



MartinMTL said:


> ^Yup. I have no idea how Giant Steps could be considered a good starting song for jazz musicians. I just started learning jazz, and that thing is impossible. Improving over the changes in that song is a nightmare. *I am going to stick with standard II-V-I's with one tonal center for now...*



... That's exactly why I stated Giant Steps is a great beginner song. So you don't fall into the bad habit of treating chords as a single key center and attempting to play scales over it. That's overwhelmingly the problem with young jazz guitar players.

You should be think chordtones, not what scale belongs to the chord. You need to be able to outline the changes with arpeggios, and be able to connect them. That's (coincidentally) how all the jazz greats learned it, and works for everything but modal tunes. 

Notice that melodies aren't a bunch of scales, but chord tones on downbeats?


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## Trespass (Aug 23, 2012)

DropDizzle said:


> Why would you suggest to someone who says "i just started jazz" to dive into giant steps? yes it is ii-V-I's. But because of the tritone subs and quick tempo it may not be the best. yes, if he wants a challenge go for it. I still contend as one the first few tunes it may be discouraging.
> 
> Even though the end result is quite fun.



Second post: 
I just have to reply to this again. I literally stated the reason in the post above yours, including examples. Let me add another:

The bridge to Have You Met Miss Jones is basically the Giant Steps cycle and is an incredibly popular jazz standard that's played fairly quickly. 



> I don't get it. You should be able to handle II-V-Is. Moment's Notice and Giant Steps are all just II-V-Is, no unusal harmony, and don't have inconsistent or unorthodox key center movement, with incredibly straightforward harmonic rhyhtmn (one chord per bar). It's all fairly straightforward stuff you'll find in 30-40s jazz standards, just fast.
> 
> I'd say tunes like Body and Soul, When Sunny Get's Blue are harder by virtue of the fact that it sandbags you with uneven harmonic rhythm and unorthodox movement at times. While you may be able to nail playing over this uneven rhythm, trying to sound melodic or resorting to cliches can be quite difficult.


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## troyguitar (Aug 24, 2012)

Reading this thread has me thinking jazz is much easier to get started with than I had preiously thought - I now want to start learning it, I may in fact begin with Giant Steps


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## Pooluke41 (Aug 24, 2012)

troyguitar said:


> Reading this thread has me thinking jazz is much easier to get started with than I had preiously thought - I now want to start learning it, I may in fact begin with Giant Steps



Inb4 troy OD's after becoming the king of Bebop. 

EDIT: I forgot what I was going to say. But i've remembered.

If you want some fakebooks/realbooks, message SW.


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## Trespass (Aug 30, 2012)

troyguitar said:


> Reading this thread has me thinking jazz is much easier to get started with than I had preiously thought - I now want to start learning it, I may in fact begin with Giant Steps



You will be happier with what you sound like playing the correct arpeggios over Giant Steps at a slow tempo, then trying to play scales over Autumn Leaves at a medium tempo.


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## Given To Fly (Sep 7, 2012)

I'm not sure if you have received the guitar yet but I'll throw my 2 cents in about strings and pickups and then allow the jazz conversation to resume.

If by "jazz" you mean "archtop tone," then yes you are crazy.   I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir when I say a solid body guitar physically can't sound like an archtop. But as far as clean tones go, I have no problem recommending EMG 808's. In fact, clean tones are probably where they excel. The 7th and 8th strings sound like they are in the middle of a guitar tone and a bass tone. All the strings are well balanced so polyphony/walking bass lines/chordal accompaniment is clearly heard. 

However, as far as strings go, the 8th is tricky. I have tried an .85 bass string and it wouldn't intonate properly. I have also tried a .70 and it was lacking in tension. A .74 has been the best and I'm about to try an .80 which will hopefully work at F#/F/E tunings. So you might have to experiment a bit before you find what works. 

Resume jazz talk...


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