# Acquiring a Blackmachine guitar?



## Cobhc221 (Dec 12, 2013)

it seems with each passing year. its getting increasingly hard to obtain one of these beauties. I would love to own one but damn i'd have to sell my right nut and kidney to get one haha. 

Anyone know whats going on with Doug?


----------



## witeter (Dec 12, 2013)

Check their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Blackmachine-Guitars/124163624308599 they have been making batches of them within the last year and putting them up for sale via that page.


----------



## Zalbu (Dec 12, 2013)

Right here, good luck 

Authentic Blackmachine B6 RARE Mint No Reserve | eBay


----------



## asfeir (Dec 12, 2013)

It's had to get a blackmachine built by Doug I think there is no chance at all if you don't know him or get acquainted through people he knows. 
But get in touch with feline guitars and they may include you in their waiting list for a B6. I believe that 15-20 B6 will be available in 2014 (if I understood well) and If you reply fast enough you'll get one.


----------



## will_shred (Dec 12, 2013)

I never understood what the Hype with Blackmachines was. Yea they're beautiful guitars but is there really something that sets them apart from other expensive high end 7's?

It's great that the builder is making one hell of a living off of the Blackmachine name, more power to him. However I just don't see how the cost is justified. I'd rather have a Daemoness, BlackKat, Mayones, Skerv, ViK or Acacia.


----------



## ArtDecade (Dec 12, 2013)

will_shred said:


> I never understood what the Hype with Blackmachines was. Yea they're beautiful guitars but is there really something that sets them apart from other expensive high end 7's?
> 
> It's great that the builder is making one hell of a living off of the Blackmachine name, more power to him. However I just don't see how the cost is justified. I'd rather have a Daemonass, BlackKat, Mayones, Skerv, or Acacia.



Wow - Those are shockingly high prices for a guitar. What is the deal with these?


----------



## guitarfreak1387 (Dec 12, 2013)

your not the only one who wonders about that. when i see a BM, what i see is an RG with a different headstock.


----------



## 155 (Dec 12, 2013)

guitarfreak1387 said:


> your not the only one who wonders about that. when i see a BM, what i see is an RG with a different headstock.


+1 your buying the name here


----------



## darren (Dec 12, 2013)

witeter said:


> Check their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Blackmachine-Guitars/124163624308599 they have been making batches of them within the last year and putting them up for sale via that page.





> This is an UN-OFFICIAL FAN PAGE for Blackmachine guitars.
> IMPORTANT: This is just a fan page and in no way reflects the views of Blackmachine guitars nor those of Doug.
> Any questions please contact the official website.


----------



## witeter (Dec 12, 2013)

^ Not sure if thats an old description,etc, i just know that Jon at Feline Guitars has been in charge of that facebook page and updating people on new builds and what guitars are available for sale (which have been advertised on that page).

Back to the previous comment - I do believe that in some instances you pay for the name, the rarity and the mystique they create. Are they great guitars? yes; are they great for you? who knows. I played a couple and wasn't fussed, they were very well made obviously but they didn't do anything for me-i wonder if that was partly down to me expecting something incredible after hearing all the hype.


----------



## cGoEcYk (Dec 12, 2013)

They look sweet but I'd probably rather buy a new car


----------



## leonardo7 (Dec 12, 2013)

Cobhc221 said:


> it seems with each passing year. its getting increasingly hard to obtain one of these beauties. I would love to own one but damn i'd have to sell my right nut and kidney to get one haha.
> 
> Anyone know whats going on with Doug?



Why do you want one? Is it because of the looks? If so then theres many other options available such as this one on ebay just as one example: Blackmachine B7 7 String Electric Guitar Replica Bare Knuckle Aftermath 7 Bkp | eBay

As far as Doug, I have no clue why he all of a sudden stopped building and selling guitars regularly. Hes a sharp guy, maybe its all just an experiment at this point to see where the prices will go. He has said though that he doesnt feel comfortable making guitars without the correct set of timbers and that in the recent years he has had a very difficult time acquiring such timbers.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Dec 12, 2013)

Lets just say the guys on the waiting list have a very hard time acquiring one. He's only built 4-5 guitars in the last year or two which is a shame because he is a phenomenal luthier. I'm not sure if I can even afford mine with the current prices.

He never set out to be a huge commercial business. He just started making guitars for his mates/bands in local scenes and proving everyone wrong that said something would't work in his builds. The blind fanboysim and people throwing money at him is whats give BM is mythical status in recent years and drove up the second hand value to ridiculous amounts.

Either way he created a guitar that many of us who have tried super hi-end guitars believe to be the best. 

As Alain said you don't need one. Just get a good guitar, good pickups, a good rig and make music. There is to much emphasis on having super hi-end guitars nowadays.


----------



## mongey (Dec 12, 2013)

there s no doubt they are supernice maybe even the best .never seen one in the flesh . But at a point a hyped products market value becomes more than the value of its parts and construction . its value starts to become how rare and sought after it is .

peopel can build exact klon clones for less than $100 but people still shell out $1000 for the original 

ifs its worth that much is up to the people willing to pay


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash (Dec 12, 2013)

will_shred said:


> I never understood what the Hype with Blackmachines was. Yea they're beautiful guitars but is there really something that sets them apart from other expensive high end 7's?
> 
> It's great that the builder is making one hell of a living off of the Blackmachine name, more power to him. However I just don't see how the cost is justified. I'd rather have a Daemoness, BlackKat, Mayones, Skerv, ViK or Acacia.


 This So Much



ArtDecade said:


> Wow - Those are shockingly high prices for a guitar. What is the deal with these?


aesthetically I don't see it maybe feel wise but I doubt that too, nothing any moderately good lutheir can't make.


----------



## yingmin (Dec 12, 2013)

will_shred said:


> I never understood what the Hype with Blackmachines was. Yea they're beautiful guitars but is there really something that sets them apart from other expensive high end 7's?
> 
> It's great that the builder is making one hell of a living off of the Blackmachine name, more power to him. However I just don't see how the cost is justified. I'd rather have a Daemoness, BlackKat, Mayones, Skerv, ViK or Acacia.



I remember Misha saying that every time the guy finishes making one of his guitars, he plays it, and if it doesn't have the right vibe to it, he destroys it and starts over. Whether or not that justifies the price is another matter, but, if true, that does say a lot about the dedication to quality. 

That said, I absolutely agree with you that the hype behind these guitars is baffling. I don't even think they look that nice.


----------



## Cobhc221 (Dec 13, 2013)

will_shred said:


> I never understood what the Hype with Blackmachines was. Yea they're beautiful guitars but is there really something that sets them apart from other expensive high end 7's?
> 
> It's great that the builder is making one hell of a living off of the Blackmachine name, more power to him. However I just don't see how the cost is justified. I'd rather have a Daemoness, BlackKat, Mayones, Skerv, ViK or Acacia.



i would agree. however, the looks of the damn thing are fukcing amazing. and dat headstock doe! its just screams perff!



leonardo7 said:


> Why do you want one? Is it because of the looks? If so then theres many other options available such as this one on ebay just as one example: Blackmachine B7 7 String Electric Guitar Replica Bare Knuckle Aftermath 7 Bkp | eBay
> 
> As far as Doug, I have no clue why he all of a sudden stopped building and selling guitars regularly. Hes a sharp guy, maybe its all just an experiment at this point to see where the prices will go. He has said though that he doesnt feel comfortable making guitars without the correct set of timbers and that in the recent years he has had a very difficult time acquiring such timbers.



yeah thats basically what nolly told me. btw that replica looks spot on!



drawnacrol said:


> Lets just say the guys on the waiting list have a very hard time acquiring one. He's only built 4-5 guitars in the last year or two which is a shame because he is a phenomenal luthier. I'm not sure if I can even afford mine with the current prices.
> 
> He never set out to be a huge commercial business. He just started making guitars for his mates/bands in local scenes and proving everyone wrong that said something would't work in his builds. The blind fanboysim and people throwing money at him is whats give BM is mythical status in recent years and drove up the second hand value to ridiculous amounts.
> 
> ...



i agree. i was looking at the skervsteen guitars as another option. 
but for now im just fanboying. my main priority right now is getting my Engl Invader 150 out of Layaway at my local guitar center.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Dec 13, 2013)

^Theres no shame in fanboying. I'm guilty as charged with jumping on the bandwagon before I tried one.

Right now your not going to find a B2/B7/FF8 with the current second hand market value. Its gotten very out of hand but thats supply and demand for you. There will be 20-24 B6s for sale next year if that model interests you.

I really wish Doug went the Strandberg production route a few years ago. He had some plans to but it never got off the ground. 

If its a super hi-end guitar you want there are tons of luthiers to choose from. Unfortunately most of those guys have very long waiting lists and right now ordering a custom can be quite a gamble between delayed building times, poor communication and quality control&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..but there are still a lot of great guys pushing out awesome guitars like Ormsby, Sabre, Daemoness, RAN etc


----------



## Rook (Dec 13, 2013)

I know of a couple of used B2's for sale for.... Plenty of money... The B6's however, I get an email every 3 or 4 months offering me one 'ready to go'. 

Don't buy a used one for stupid money, Feline doesn't appear to be behind demand with these B6's and I believe that's because people straight up don't realise they're available new.

Don't be a tool and pay $5k plus for a B6, my feelings on 'value for money' aside, they are readily available new for £2k every 3-6 months, be wise, make some calls, you'll get one trust me.


----------



## Tommy Deaks (Dec 13, 2013)

I would like to try one, but I don't think they're the most stunning guitars visually.

Lookswise, all I see is a squashed swamp ash RG body. Pretty meh to me. 

Please note that I am only commenting on the looks. I am sure they're fantastic guitars. The rabid fanboyism grates though. What also annoys me is people who get so annoyed with people making copies of them. If it's what people want, so what?

Having said all that if anyone is in the Manchester area and willing to let me have a go on your Blackmachine, that'd be cool


----------



## will_shred (Dec 13, 2013)

I don't want to start any shitstorms here but I've seen people offering insane amounts of money to get a blackmachine, which seems to be artificially driving the prices up.

I'm not gonna say anything more than that.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Dec 14, 2013)

^Supply and demand. 10 people offer $4000, 9 offer $5,000, 8 offer etc etc

It just keeps going up and setting the bar higher and higher each time. I would love to know what BM and similar boutique guitars will go for in 5 years time. Custom guitars are more popular than they've ever been(In metal anyway) but companies are starting to catch on nowadays to what people really want.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi (Dec 14, 2013)

Since threads on the subject are popping up a lot as of late, I wrote a paragraph about Blackmachine Guitars. Hopefully will clarify some aspects so if you're curious, give it a read 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/i2iu8jdlj91pcl4/blackmachine.pdf


----------



## noise in my mind (Dec 14, 2013)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Since threads on the subject are popping up a lot as of late, I wrote a paragraph about Blackmachine Guitars. Hopefully will clarify some aspects so if you're curious, give it a read
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/i2iu8jdlj91pcl4/blackmachine.pdf



well written


----------



## asfeir (Dec 14, 2013)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Since threads on the subject are popping up a lot as of late, I wrote a paragraph about Blackmachine Guitars. Hopefully will clarify some aspects so if you're curious, give it a read
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/i2iu8jdlj91pcl4/blackmachine.pdf



Respect for declining that offer!


----------



## ice_age_magic (Dec 14, 2013)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Since threads on the subject are popping up a lot as of late, I wrote a paragraph about Blackmachine Guitars. Hopefully will clarify some aspects so if you're curious, give it a read
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/i2iu8jdlj91pcl4/blackmachine.pdf



Read all 5 pages of that and I agree with it all. I've played a b2, b6, and b7. They are all 5 star guitars without a doubt. After many years of waiting I finally was able to purchase one of the new B6 guitars - I've never been this satisfied with any instrument or piece of gear. I actually prefer my b6 over the b2 I played - the neck on my b6 is slightly more comfortable, and I really like the natural simple wood grains ( I was a big fan of the looks on the ibanez rga121 natural finish, but that guitar sounded like shit ).
I guess what I'm saying is out of all the guitars I've owned (jackson USA,ibanez la custom & prestige, PRS custom 24 10top, Washburn wm526 x3, dean rc7, caparison tat, dellinger, Horus & artist custom, ebmm jpx & jpx7, ESP custom shop) that my blackmachine b6 is my favorite. When it showed up in the mail and I opened the package and opened the case, I had this moment where I thought "did I just pay all that for a maple neck bolted on an ash body?" - then I started to look at it closely - I've never seen a better cut of wood, remarkably even grain and no building flaws at all. The fretwork was second to none. ...and when I finally plugged it in, oh man, both the hugest sounding yet lightest weight guitar I've played. The resonance is incredible, attack is fast, tons of harmonics, and overall a joy to play.

I think of blackmachine now a lot of the way I think of Fryette amps - both are so clear and true that they make you a better player. If you play sloppy, it is only amplified, never covered up or masked. However, if you're a great player and have been well disciplined in your technique - you will get a sound that is unparalleled.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 14, 2013)

I'm glad people are at least starting to show some sanity in regards to these things  they're available new for much less than what they're selling for secondhand. They're not my thing, so I personally wouldn't throw down the cash for one since I've honestly played better guitars than a B6 that cost far less.

People need to start playing as many instruments as they can before setting their "holy grail" based on who plays them. Of course there's nothing wrong with wanting something based on looks, but I've met some very disappointed people who end up paying top dollar for a guitar they've lusted for and they end up not liking them. Some people even order customs, wait years and invest thousands, then you see them up in the classifieds after their honeymoon period.


----------



## will_shred (Dec 14, 2013)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> Since threads on the subject are popping up a lot as of late, I wrote a paragraph about Blackmachine Guitars. Hopefully will clarify some aspects so if you're curious, give it a read
> 
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/i2iu8jdlj91pcl4/blackmachine.pdf



I get what your saying but it's not like Blackmachines are the only guitars on the planet of that caliber.


----------



## leonardo7 (Dec 14, 2013)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I'm glad people are at least starting to show some sanity in regards to these things  they're available new for much less than what they're selling for secondhand.



You mean in regards to the B6? Its true that the B6 costs less new than the inflated used price, but first you get on the list and wait anywhere from 4 months to a year+ depending on where you are on the list, and thats if you can get on the list. I've been on Doug's list along with the other 9 dudes, for one of the 10 customs he's going to be making when he gets the woods ready, but when I tried to get on the list for a B6 I never heard back. That was over 6 months ago. So now Im over it and absolutely do not want a Swamp Ash body and rosewood fretboard 6 string for 4K. Its just too basic and boring a 6 string for me personally since Im not in to Swamp Ash tone or 6 string guitars much. Id be willing to bet that 80% of the B6s are intended to be sold to and are selling new to guys who have never played a Blackmachine before and are willing to pay that much just to try one out. The B2, B7, or F8 on the other hand cant be bought new but on rare occasion, and when available, sell new mostly to people who have actually tried and loved a Blackmachine before, and if your lucky to get one when Blackmachine does have one available, then it wont be for less price necessarily than the used market prices. Its likely that the Blackmachine B2, B7, and F8 will sell for MORE new than what they sell for on the used market. Believe it or not its the opposite of the B6 situation. Every B2, B7, or F8 sold new lately from Blackmachine seems to sell for more new than what the last one sold for used. I think its important to note the price differences and rarity between the B6 and all other Blackmachines. 

Blackmachine guitars himself sold an F8 last year for $12,000 and sold a B2 just last month for $13,500. So when you see one of those selling used for a high price, don't be so easy to assume that the used seller inflated the price necessarily. And sometimes its the buyer who inflates the price, not the seller, meaning that if a buyer offers way too much like in an auction style sale, then its not the seller, its the buyer who is setting the price for that particular guitar.


----------



## narad (Dec 14, 2013)

I occasionally read reviews of that sort, 

"they have an enormous amount of sonic character, 
something that you can&#8217;t associate with pickups or amp/gear used. They add 
so much to the &#64257;nal tone, something very musical, mature, expressive, rich. 
They sound alien."

And that's all well and good - who wouldn't want to add something "more" to their sound? But then the question I think people should ask themselves is, "What is my favorite recorded tone?" If it's Periphery II, by all means, pursue blackmachines. If it's something by Sikth, or RedSeasFire, sure, maybe pursue blackmachines. But if you find those tones similar to tones from other albums, then maybe alien is not so alien. And if those tones aren't the epitome of tone in your mind, don't bother jumping into the sound hype.

If your guitar, blackmachine or otherwise, inspires you in ways others can't, well, you can't put a price on that. You can't put a price on picking it up and having it just feel "right". But when it comes to sound, if you don't hear it in the albums made with these guitars, don't buy it for the really subjective amorphous descriptions of sound. If it's not discernible on an album then what's the point?


----------



## Mitochondria (Dec 14, 2013)

I understand where you are coming from OP. I feel like the majority (not all) of SS.org users go through a phase where they lust for a blackmachine and nothing else will do. I was in the same boat, i then realized if i ever did have the luck or money i would feel terrible spending it on a guitar i had never played or even seen in person just in case it wasn't for me. 

I ended up with a Siggery that i spec'd out exactly how i wanted it, waited about 9 months, and spent less than 2 grand. I can honestly say i am completely satisfied with the outcome. I will never sell that guitar, and to this point i have sold every guitar i have owned. 

I am not saying get a Siggery. What i did was probably not moral or legal for that matter. I am just suggesting step back, look at the whole thing logically, and i think you will find a guitar that will make you more than happy. 

And not to spark a shitstorm... but i honestly think that if i got a blackmachine, and spent all the time and resources that it would take to get it, i would probably be disappointed. It happened to me with my first Les Paul Custom, and my AXE Ultra. 

** This is just my opinion, all the ideas i have about blackmachine are merely observations of conversations on SS.org**


----------



## leonardo7 (Dec 14, 2013)

Mitochondria said:


> i honestly think that if i got a blackmachine, and spent all the time and resources that it would take to get it, i would probably be disappointed.



This is exactly why there is a screening process when buying a Blackmachine directly from Doug. Its more just him going off his intuition for the most part rather than a screening process really. This is partially why you dont see many on the used market. Its because they tend to get sold to the right customers, people who knew what they were buying before they bought it, people whom have played a Blackmachine before and wont be disappointed with their purchase, people who know what they are getting themselves in to. Most luthiers prefer to not see their guitars on the used market. This is why Strandberg wont let anyone take someones place in his wait list. He doesnt want some guy coming along saying "I have an opportunity to jump right in and try out a Strandberg and if I dont like it then I will just sell it". It basically ensures that if you have waited this long for your custom, then your serious about it and probably wont be selling it right away if at all. If you buy a Blackmachine directly from Doug, the chances are that you know what you are getting therefore there wont be disappointment, and from his point of view, no used Blackmachines on the market. The B6's are apparently priced accordingly and probably meant more for this type of situation.


----------



## nicktao (Dec 14, 2013)

Mitochondria said:


> I am not saying get a Siggery. What i did was probably *not moral* or legal for that matter.


----------



## Watty (Dec 14, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> This is exactly why there is a screening process when buying a Blackmachine directly from Doug.



ALL else aside, I have the feeling there'd be a lot less "butt hurt" everywhere if Doug would simply make a public statement (whether on his website or otherwise) in which he'd essentially state this sentiment up front. Given that he hasn't, I feel like he's still privy to any negative press associated with his apparent unwillingness to offer customer service in the traditional sense when people reach out to buy one of his instruments.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Dec 15, 2013)

Doug started building guitars for his friends and guys in the local music scene so he's always preferred to sell to people he knows. He's always been baffled that people will throw huge amounts of cash at him for a guitar they've never even played and might not even like.


----------



## asfeir (Dec 15, 2013)

10-12k Sounds too much in this forum, but thats the price of a gustavsson (spelling) or a gil yaron.. And these two are easier to get than a b2/b7


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 15, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> You mean in regards to the B6? Its true that the B6 costs less new than the inflated used price, but first you get on the list and wait anywhere from 4 months to a year+ depending on where you are on the list, and thats if you can get on the list.



Yeah that's what I was referring to, I know it's not Doug inflating his brand's value haha. It's just the end user and people who would want to give one a shot. And yeah the B6 is all I have personally played from Blackmachine, that's why I'm only vocal about that specific model.

I didn't know that's how it works now honestly, as far I know they were trying to put out a few every month. And it was more of a first come first serve thing, interesting that you still have a wait list though for the production ones. And although I really don't know how to feel about Doug's process about which customers get which guitar. I basically don't see anything negative about it, but I don't think it's the most effective way to get his product in the hands of the right person. But the way you worded it, I definitely saw a benefit in it for both parties (Doug, and the receiving Guitarist).


----------



## Hollowway (Dec 15, 2013)

Not that anyone is asking, but I have zero desire to own a Blackmachine. I think the HS is pure genius, but the rest of it is pretty boring looking. And there is no one that will be able to convince me that they sound any better or play any better than any other quality guitar out there. I highly contest that the woods of a guitar can "reveal your bad playing" like a Fryette.


----------



## will_shred (Dec 15, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Not that anyone is asking, but I have zero desire to own a Blackmachine. I think the HS is pure genius, but the rest of it is pretty boring looking. And there is no one that will be able to convince me that they sound any better or play any better than any other quality guitar out there. I highly contest that the woods of a guitar can "reveal your bad playing" like a Fryette.



+1


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Dec 16, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Not that anyone is asking, but I have zero desire to own a Blackmachine. I think the HS is pure genius, but the rest of it is pretty boring looking. And there is no one that will be able to convince me that they sound any better or play any better than any other quality guitar out there. I highly contest that the woods of a guitar can "reveal your bad playing" like a Fryette.



When I tried Doug's Koa B2 I instantly felt comfortable on it. I didn't need to warm up or anything. I just picked it up and started effortlessly shredding out licks that I would generally have trouble with. I've played lots of hi-end guitars and I'd put it at the top in every area. The only other guitar I've come across like it where I bonded straight away would be my Schecter Custom Shop 7.

To say there are no other guitars like BM would be a lie though. There are tons of lutheirs churning out incredible guitars nowadays. Strandberg and Vik being two zealously dedicated builders who spring to mind. It doesn't take much to make a guitar play good, number 1 thing being set up to YOUR preference and if someone is having trouble playing a hi-end guitar they most likely might be the problem.


----------



## hairychris (Dec 16, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> Doug started building guitars for his friends and guys in the local music scene so he's always preferred to sell to people he knows. He's always been baffled that people will throw huge amounts of cash at him for a guitar they've never even played and might not even like.



Yeah, a lot of the "early adopters" (hahahaha) were in an East London band scene that I joined in early 2001.... as was Doug. It's how I ended up with mine, although I wasn't one of those folks.

I can see why Doug's (lack of) communication with the outside world would annoy some people, but unless you're actually in the build process it has precisely nothing to do with you. Jonathan, though, is much happier with this side of things hence him getting involved with the production models. He's also one of the few people that Doug is happy with partnering on a technical/luthery level, so there isn't much hope of anything resembling licensing.

The used market has got a bit silly. I've been offered a good chunk for my 7 but I'm not getting rid of it. Personal reasons, mainly, so when it goes I'll vet very carefully who it goes to. And won't necessarily be the highest offer or be anyone on this site.

As for new prices, funnily enough I think that the full customs are _relatively_ good value compared to the B6s. Doing the sums on what's been sold Doug can not be making fortunes per hour, he does not have the throughput. Simple economics. He'd almost certainly make more money if he took his skills and did something else with them.

Anyway, whatever. Most of the cloud of bullshit comes from people who have never seen one in the flesh, let alone held one, let alone being in a position where buying one is a viable option. A bit like those idiots on car forums who bicker about Ferrari vs Lambo but live in their parents' basement and work part-time for McD's.







They're fine guitars. They don't cure cancer or tame unicorns. Other luthiers are available.


----------



## ice_age_magic (Dec 16, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Not that anyone is asking, but I have zero desire to own a Blackmachine. I think the HS is pure genius, but the rest of it is pretty boring looking. And there is no one that will be able to convince me that they sound any better or play any better than any other quality guitar out there. I highly contest that the woods of a guitar can "reveal your bad playing" like a Fryette.



I say this because all the blackmachine guitars I have played/owned are very touchy - the pickups are HOT, the guitars themself are the most resonant guitars I've come across, and the bridge pickup is further away from the bridge than other guitars. I never said it was "the woods"- if I had to contribute some of this to woods, I would say its more so because of the extremely tight fitting neck cavity and how far it goes into the body.. All of these make for a very loud and resonant instrument which will only highlight sloppy technique - thus I would only recommend these guitars to advanced players. I say all of this not as an appeal to snobbery, but as someone who has owned a lot of gear, including 6 vht/fryette amps over the years. If you're a mediocre player with deep pockets, you'll probably be disappointed.
All obviously IMO, besides the parts that take physics into account. Then again, science isn't fact.


----------



## narad (Dec 16, 2013)

ice_age_magic said:


> thus I would only recommend these guitars to advanced players.


----------



## Hollowway (Dec 16, 2013)

ice_age_magic said:


> I say this because all the blackmachine guitars I have played/owned are very touchy - the pickups are HOT, the guitars themself are the most resonant guitars I've come across, and the bridge pickup is further away from the bridge than other guitars. I never said it was "the woods"- if I had to contribute some of this to woods, I would say its more so because of the extremely tight fitting neck cavity and how far it goes into the body.. All of these make for a very loud and resonant instrument which will only highlight sloppy technique - thus I would only recommend these guitars to advanced players. I say all of this not as an appeal to snobbery, but as someone who has owned a lot of gear, including 6 vht/fryette amps over the years. If you're a mediocre player with deep pockets, you'll probably be disappointed.
> All obviously IMO, besides the parts that take physics into account. Then again, science isn't fact.



Yeah, I get you. I was assuming you meant the woods, because there doesn't seem to be any consensus on whether bolt-ons, bolt-ins or neck thrus give more resonance, better sustain, snappier sound, etc. And there are probably a good number of luthiers who would challenge the tight neck cavity (like Ormsby) etc. But if you're referring to electronics, pup placement, etc., then yeah, I totally get where you're coming from. I'm just firmly in the woods-are-The-Emperor's-New-Clothes camp. Not that I'm right, or unwilling to change my opinion, though. FWIW, I own a Fryette (Pittbull 50CL) as well, and I do loves me some unforgiving gear.


----------



## Hollowway (Dec 16, 2013)

drawnacrol said:


> When I tried Doug's Koa B2 I instantly felt comfortable on it. I didn't need to warm up or anything. I just picked it up and started effortlessly shredding out licks that I would generally have trouble with. I've played lots of hi-end guitars and I'd put it at the top in every area. The only other guitar I've come across like it where I bonded straight away would be my Schecter Custom Shop 7.
> 
> To say there are no other guitars like BM would be a lie though. There are tons of lutheirs churning out incredible guitars nowadays. Strandberg and Vik being two zealously dedicated builders who spring to mind. It doesn't take much to make a guitar play good, number 1 thing being set up to YOUR preference and if someone is having trouble playing a hi-end guitar they most likely might be the problem.



That's so true about bonding immediately with an instrument. That's one of the frustrating things about music stores - many of them don't have guitars set up well, meaning that the odds of me falling in love with an instrument are pretty low. It would be like going into the mall to buy a pair of pants, and the only size they have is a 46 waist. I'd have to imagine how they'd feel, and how good they'd look, if I were to order one in my size. Picking up a guitar with the intonation off, the action high, and the pups too low/high just means I have to use my imagination. Despite what I was saying about Blackmachines (or any other instrument), if I picked one up and gelled with it I'd totally be into it. (Not North of $5K into it, but into it.)
Years ago I wanted to buy an acoustic. I went into a music store and tried a few $800-$1200 instruments. Then, on a whim, I picked up a $300 A&E, and it had just this great, clear, bright tone, played really well, etc. So I just bought it right there. That's all that really matters - that it works as a tool for what you need it to do. (Well, and to build the collection. Thanks, GAS!)


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Dec 17, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> It would be like going into the mall to buy a pair of pants, and the only size they have is a 46 waist. I'd have to imagine how they'd feel, and how good they'd look, if I were to order one in my size. Picking up a guitar with the intonation off, the action high, and the pups too low/high just means I have to use my imagination.





Very well put and something I really try to emphasis when someone buys or is planning to buy a guitar. Also worth mentioning how much clean/fresh strings make a difference to playability and tuning stability. For me that is one of the most important things when trying to decide on a guitar.


----------



## morethan6 (Dec 17, 2013)

You know what, a lot of this comes from Doug and BM guitars being a pioneer. Yeah, there are loads of other luthiers making amazing guitars of a very similar style and quality right now, but they weren't around when BM started out - you had to get an RG or something (nothing wrong with that obviously). We're all talking about fanned frets, Bare Knuckle pups, stop tail, comfortable bridges, ultra thin bodies with forearm carves etc like they're relatively commonplace now, but trust me, they weren't back then. I spoke to Doug and Pin from Sikth at a trade show like 10 years ago when Pin had just had his first one - they were well ahead of their time then. In fact, I nearly bought one instead of my Les Paul Custom...would've been worth more now probably 

I think that's where the mystique comes from - it's the same as the way people give Messhuggah ultimate respect for pioneering the djent genre that has now grown up. Yeah, there are other bands that are amazing at the style, but they did it FIRST.


----------



## zero_end (Dec 17, 2013)

I think I'm the only one that doesn't like the headstock at all.


----------



## asher (Dec 17, 2013)

zero_end said:


> I think I'm the only one that doesn't like the headstock at all.



I was very put off by it at first, but I've grown to really like it.


----------



## Workhorse (Dec 18, 2013)

I will never own a Bentley, and will never own a Blackmachine for the same reason.


----------



## hairychris (Dec 18, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> I will never own a Bentley, and will never own a Blackmachine for the same reason.



I could buy an apartment for the cost of a Bentley.

The BM market isn't that silly. Yet.


----------



## asfeir (Dec 18, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> I will never own a Bentley, and will never own a Blackmachine for the same reason.



Bbbbut if you buy a Bentley, 5 years later you'll sell it for a huge loss, whereas who knows how pricey will blackmachine be in 5 years, even used ones!


----------



## hairychris (Dec 18, 2013)

ice_age_magic said:


> All of these make for a very loud and resonant instrument which will only highlight sloppy technique - *thus I would only recommend these guitars to advanced players*



*ahem*








Not me!


----------



## Workhorse (Dec 18, 2013)

narad said:


> And that's all well and good - who wouldn't want to add something "more" to their sound? But then the question I think people should ask themselves is, "What is my favorite recorded tone?" If it's Periphery II, by all means, pursue blackmachines.



Obviously guitars have a lot to do with the tone, but if you want the periphery tone, you need a lot more than a blackmachine.


----------



## Workhorse (Dec 18, 2013)

hairychris said:


> I could buy an apartment for the cost of a Bentley.
> 
> The BM market isn't that silly. Yet.



What I meant is its just out of my price range, plain and simple. I hear great things about them from people who have tried them first hand, but for me, it's too expensive.


----------



## narad (Dec 18, 2013)

Workhorse said:


> Obviously guitars have a lot to do with the tone, but if you want the periphery tone, you need a lot more than a blackmachine.



Sure, you'll need a lot more than X guitar to achieve _any_ tone, but my point is simply: 

Hurl all the superlatives you want at blackmachine guitars, but if your favorite tone is *anything* other than...Sikth, Periphery, and RedSeasFire... the only three bands I know to have recorded with blackmachine... then it's not going to hinder you at all to use a different guitar. And that's very limiting - to go from the space of all possible bands to just three. Really this is just common sense, but there seems to be a fair amount of that missing when blackmachine threads come up  

Plenty of my favorite tones were recorded with Ibanez, so while I have "better" guitars that are built better, have "better" pickups, and are made with nicer woods, I know that ultimately a good Ibanez and some studio skill is enough to produce the result I want. I just feel bad for the kids that have never played a blackmachine, stand essentially no chance at ever owning one (made by Doug), but are still convinced that they're essential for obtaining that sound.


----------



## midian (Dec 18, 2013)

> The neck pickup is as close to the neck as possible. Its so close that theres
> contact with the neck and fretboard wood, which makes for even more tone
> transmission.



...now this is some high quality snake oil right here


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Dec 18, 2013)

morethan6 said:


> You know what, a lot of this comes from Doug and BM guitars being a pioneer. Yeah, there are loads of other luthiers making amazing guitars of a very similar style and quality right now, but they weren't around when BM started out - you had to get an RG or something (nothing wrong with that obviously). We're all talking about fanned frets, Bare Knuckle pups, stop tail, comfortable bridges, ultra thin bodies with forearm carves etc like they're relatively commonplace now, but trust me, they weren't back then. I spoke to Doug and Pin from Sikth at a trade show like 10 years ago when Pin had just had his first one - they were well ahead of their time then. In fact, I nearly bought one instead of my Les Paul Custom...would've been worth more now probably
> 
> I think that's where the mystique comes from - it's the same as the way people give Messhuggah ultimate respect for pioneering the djent genre that has now grown up. Yeah, there are other bands that are amazing at the style, but they did it FIRST.





Nowadays all these features are very common because of the hundreds of clones and inspired builds but back then there were big misconceptions about how a thin guitar wouldn't resonate properly or would sound thin and bolt-ons having poor sustain. Now its the opposite where a raw/oiled thin body resonates more and bolt-ons have more sustain



For anyone still wondering Feline Guitars posted that a B6 with Hannes bridge is £2300(+ Shipping) with a 12+ month wait. For the foreseeable future the only way to get your hands on a B2/B7/B8 is to offer someone a ridiculous amount of money for theres.


----------



## leonardo7 (Dec 18, 2013)

A 12+ month wait now? I have a question for people. If a company was to offer a stripped down 6 string with Swamp Ash Body and maple neck like a B6 but in the shape of one of that companies designs, and it was available almost immediately, would people buy it? But it would have to be from a company with high regards to quality. Like what if Jackson CS made these shaped like a soloist and sold em for $3400 would they sell? Or what if KxK or Daemoness did this? What if Vik did it? Would people buy em?


----------



## asher (Dec 18, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> A 12+ month wait now? I have a question for people. If a company was to offer a stripped down 6 string with Swamp Ash Body and maple neck like a B6 but in the shape of one of that companies designs, and it was available almost immediately, would people buy it? But it would have to be from a company with high regards to quality. Like what if Jackson CS made these shaped like a soloist and sold em for $3400 would they sell? Or what if KxK or Daemoness did this? What if Vik did it? Would people buy em?



At a guess, no, maybe, yes, and yes, respectively. I think a good deal of the point of the "stripped down" models is perceived savings vs. the real thing, and that price point/quality ratio is not equal for all manufacturers and luthiers.


----------



## narad (Dec 18, 2013)

leonardo7 said:


> A 12+ month wait now? I have a question for people. If a company was to offer a stripped down 6 string with Swamp Ash Body and maple neck like a B6 but in the shape of one of that companies designs, and it was available almost immediately, would people buy it? But it would have to be from a company with high regards to quality. Like what if Jackson CS made these shaped like a soloist and sold em for $3400 would they sell? Or what if KxK or Daemoness did this? What if Vik did it? Would people buy em?



An ash Daemoness with a rosewood board + headstock? I'd buy that - that'd probably look great. The problem is that that's hardly a discount over a custom order. At $2500? Game on.

What's sad is that Feline already offers that. You take his guitar, shape it like a B6, slap the blackmachine plate on the back...$6k on ebay. Badge it as a Feline, no sale.


----------



## FelineGuitars (Dec 21, 2013)

narad said:


> An ash Daemoness with a rosewood board + headstock? I'd buy that - that'd probably look great. The problem is that that's hardly a discount over a custom order. At $2500? Game on.
> 
> What's sad is that Feline already offers that. You take his guitar, shape it like a B6, slap the blackmachine plate on the back...$6k on ebay. Badge it as a Feline, no sale.



And yet - get a chance to play one of our guitars and you'll maybe change your stance on that.

The waiting list looks like it's growing because we get new enquiries every day - sometimes a whole bunch of them if we get mentions from Guitar porn or Bare Knuckle etc.

Many people wait patiently on the list knowing that a turn may come up sooner than they expect because someone else wasn't ready to make a purchase when the next batch came round (life can get in the way with unforeseen expenses that prevent guitar buying), so don't always let the promise of a long wait put you off.

We intend to try to make 20-25 B6s in a year, and build them with a lot of care.Trying to make many more than that would mean it would be hard to treat each one as an individual that we will pour our heart and soul into making as good as it can be, and that would be unacceptable to me (and certainly to Doug). 
I choose to make guitars in a way that means I enjoy making them and feeling like I'm on a production line is not the way for me to feel a passion for the work, or the way for me to impart some loving care to each instrument.

I am more active on social media than Doug, but I do have to be careful sometimes as it can become way too time consuming. I sometimes struggle with a barrage of email, and often face the tough decision of choosing to either talk about guitars or build them, and usually the building wins out. 

So I may not be the best correspondent as far as email goes , (even though I am a talkative soul), and often getting a reply from me takes a while, but bear with me if waiting on a reply. 
I got into guitar making to be a luthier, and not a secretary, and sometimes it gets a bit frustrating getting the balance right


----------

