# Gibson Gary Moore ? WTF



## hufschmid (May 16, 2009)

So today a friend of mine gave me a phone call, all exited because he received his new Gary Moore signature guitar...

I felt sorry for him....

So I took some pictures 

WTF? Is this only me or something is totally screwed up? 
Quality controls 

New contruction technique, the fingerboard below the body and a 3mm gap 





























i love the way they also took the time to match a piece at the headstock...








cavity is not even shielded.... 








flat frets, dented fingerboard, horrible neck joint...


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## technomancer (May 16, 2009)

Wow that shit would so be going back if it were mine...


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## hufschmid (May 16, 2009)

technomancer said:


> Wow that shit would so be going back if it were mine...



 Thats what I told him to do immediately

This instantly came in my mind, just replace ''you have offended my family and the shaolin temple'' by ''you have offended the guitar world and the guitar makers''


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 16, 2009)

Well that just further proves my previous post in the horrible guitars thread.

gibson.

I've heard some horror stories of quality control issues for every brand lately but this is by far the worst I've ever seen.


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## soliloquy (May 16, 2009)

those are BFG guitars. each and every BFG has that type of a fret board joint. and each and every BFG has those flat frets, and most of them have that clear cavity control cover. also, most of those defects are put on there to look like the road woren thing. kinda like how fender asks more money to beat up a guitar.

the flat frets i find kinda useful. they would wear less theoretically. and if you have a guitar from the 70s or something that has been used quite often, you would see that your frets are actually flat on top due to wear. 

the top is unsanded, so those 'flaws' you see inside the pickup cavity aren't flaws. its just how the guitar is made.

the dent on the back of the neck, yes, that is a flaw! but i dont htink gibson did that. its more of a guitarshop problem.

and those gary moore BFGs sell for quite a bit for no reason other than gary moors name. brand new, a bfg can be bought for less than a grand. put garry moors name on it, and you have a guitar being sold for two, or three times the price...

i have to say, that that bridge is something that looks out of place. other BFGs that i've tried, had those woren, or matte bridges. this one on the moore looks way too 'new' to be on that guitar...

zoom into the pickup cavity to see what i mean
http://www.gibson.com/press/usa/product/2008/LPBGBBDB1_.jpg
http://www.gibson.com/press/usa/product/2008/LPBGIKGM1_.jpg

this was gibsons response to higher gibson prices, too pretty to damage the guitars and stuff. so they relased a 'raw power' les paul that, according to them, was unlike anything they ever released. some people HATE these. others, like me, like em. but only in all black. the others just look a tad weird to me...


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## Zahs (May 16, 2009)

i'm sorry, but there is no excuse for that type of poor quality, especially for that price, even if you are trying to get that beat-up/worn in feel... and to get that you need to make a good/proper guitar, then change the finish. i would be absolutely livid if i received that, utter BS.


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## thedonutman (May 16, 2009)

soliloquy: While I do agree that the BFG has the "worn" look, I don't think anybody could ever beat up a Les Paul and end up with a neck joint like that.

Also, I don't understand how an unsanded top could cause poorly routed cavities?

And how is having crappy intonation ever useful?


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## wannabguitarist (May 16, 2009)

That looks like a Devries fretboard


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## soliloquy (May 16, 2009)

thedonutman said:


> soliloquy: While I do agree that the BFG has the "worn" look, I don't think anybody could ever beat up a Les Paul and end up with a neck joint like that.
> 
> Also, I don't understand how an unsanded top could cause poorly routed cavities?
> 
> And how is having crappy intonation ever useful?



how would it have crappy intonation? the bfgs i've tried seemed perfect with their intonation. its just like a normal les paul guitar interms of its bridge, and intonation and stuff...if it were a wrap around bridge, then that would be a different story...

and just to defend the guitar, they actually play really well, and sound great. the pickups they've used are tremendous, and its actually a very versatile guitar. that kill switch alone is a pretty cool thing to have on your guitar.


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## hufschmid (May 16, 2009)

soliloquy said:


> how would it have crappy intonation? the bfgs i've tried seemed perfect with their intonation. its just like a normal les paul guitar interms of its bridge, and intonation and stuff...if it were a wrap around bridge, then that would be a different story...
> 
> and just to defend the guitar, they actually play really well, and sound great. the pickups they've used are tremendous, and its actually a very versatile guitar. that kill switch alone is a pretty cool thing to have on your guitar.



The intonation ''note spot'' on a fret is exactly in its center, therfore a flat fret gives poor intonation and also buzzes...

I have played the guitar, the action was set horribly high, the pickups very low and the guitar sounded very bad, also the TOM did not go lower meaning that the action can not be lowered....

He bought it because it was a Gibson ''a dream '', so I feel very sorry for all the people who buy those guitars only because its written Gibson on the headstock...

What a poor way of getting new players to play on those guitars in my opinion.... 

Lets ask mister Moore what he thinks about this..... Maybe he will say its fantastic because he was paid tousands of dollars to say so....




soliloquy said:


> the flat frets i find kinda useful. they would wear less theoretically. and if you have a guitar from the 70s or something that has been used quite often, you would see that your frets are actually flat on top due to wear.



Is this the new marketing communication from Gibson?


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## thesimo (May 16, 2009)

that guitar is an *abomination*


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 16, 2009)

thesimo said:


> that guitar is an *abomination*



 I wouldn't disgrace the word abomination to describe that guitar.


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## Jonny (May 16, 2009)

Send it back with a big printed WTF. And in small print "This paper is better quality than this guitar".


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## Andrew_B (May 16, 2009)

thats disgusting....

Gibson - Gibson Guitar: Gary Moore Signature Les Paul BFG Guitars, Online Electric Guitar Videos, Blog and Breaking News

check the comments.....



i think something this bad should be addressed straight up with whoever is running gibson now...
they are digging themselves a hole...


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## hufschmid (May 16, 2009)

Gibson - Gibson Guitar: Gary Moore Signature Les Paul BFG Guitars, Online Electric Guitar Videos, Blog and Breaking News

2149$




> Products Electric Guitars Les Paul Gibson USA Gary Moore BFG
> It&#8217;s no coincidence that Gibson USA&#8217;s Gary Moore Signature Les Paul guitar is a BFG &#8211; perhaps the mightiest and most extreme Les Paul to ever leave a Gibson factory. The Gary Moore Signature Les Paul BFG takes the raw, unrefined power of Gibson&#8217;s classic BFG and matches it with the look of Moore&#8217;s personal and legendary Les Paul Standards from the late 1950s, resulting in a beautifully radical Les Paul that certainly embodies Moore&#8217;s iconic status among the world&#8217;s finest guitarists.



Is this a joke?  Better laugh then cry.....

Obvioussly the routes of the pickups have been photoshop smooth on the picture on the website


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## budda (May 16, 2009)

If i was buying a gibson, it wouldnt be a BFG.


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## soliloquy (May 16, 2009)

the action was high on that guitar and the bridge was at its lowest? then that may very well be a B-stock gibson. i've tried at least 8 or 9 of those BFGs, and they all played really well, with action super low as well. also, there was no rattle or any sort, nor buzz. and i know what intonation means. i even checked it using a tuner coz i too was curios about how flat frts would affect it. and nope, they didnt affect em at all. intonation was dead on.


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## Desi (May 16, 2009)

On the subject of Gibson's BFG line of Guitars, I think they are *horrendous*. They look like a high school woodshop project...only worse. To me, BFG stands for "Butt Fuckingly Grotesque".


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## hairychris (May 16, 2009)

That's horrific!


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## hufschmid (May 16, 2009)

Desi said:


> To me, BFG stands for "Butt Fuckingly Grotesque".


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## hairychris (May 16, 2009)

Desi said:


> On the subject of Gibson's BFG line of Guitars, I think they are *horrendous*. They look like a high school woodshop project...only worse. To me, BFG stands for "Butt Fuckingly Grotesque".



Blatant Fail, Gibson?


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## Arctodus (May 16, 2009)

I'm not going to defend the guitar directly but what are you guys players or collectors? Working at PRS I've seen tons of finish flaws goes right into the finishing line without anyone correcting them. Mahogany and Flame maple tops that swelled when they got stain and it goes out the door like that. I've seen the work directly at the 1st PRS dealer right in Annapolis. No one seemed to really notice it and I pointed it out directly.

So players aren't really aware of finishing problems. In fact most professional players are pretty air headed about guitars in general. Kind of sad but true, money ruins all. Most of them just want soandso guitar with soandso features and decent action. Can't blame them I rather be worried about playing then how my guitar looks cosmetically. 

Now collectors are a different story. They dick around so much with all the minuscule details and they will never actually play the damn thing. Its just an investment. Its either the real deal or brand new they have no in between.

I love my instrument but I know if i play it intensely its going to wear in. Its just part of playing. So why start with something that is perfect. Thats the point of the gibson BFG guitars. Its not cosmetically flawless its meant to be thrown right in.


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## hufschmid (May 16, 2009)

Arctodus said:


> So why start with something that is perfect. Thats the point of the gibson BFG guitars. Its not cosmetically flawless its meant to be thrown right in.



Because of the price 2149$ for that amount anybody can get a top notch perfectly set up and playable guitar without any flaws....



Arctodus said:


> So players aren't really aware of finishing problems. In fact most professional players are pretty air headed about guitars in general



I agree 

The reason why those 'factory' brands sell so many guitars....


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## Mattmc74 (May 16, 2009)

Wow thats messed up!


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## Stealthdjentstic (May 16, 2009)

Two words.

That sucks.


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 16, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> Because of the price 2149$ for that amount anybody can get a top notch perfectly set up and playable guitar without any flaws....



 There you go! Pat put it nicely.

 I'm a player but therein lies my problem with this whole deal.

I love to say the same line about "players" and "collectors" but 2150 bucks for an instrument just to play on is nuts.

for 350 bucks I got my 9 year old ibanez with LESS wear and tear on it than that thing has brand new and the ibanez is a much better player. The 350$ ibanez is a players guitar... what that bfg is is a piece of crap excuse to sell shitty guitars at stupid prices to their brainwashed market.


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## D-EJ915 (May 16, 2009)

wow, that's just awful


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## soliloquy (May 16, 2009)

guys..think logically. when a company website says that the price is 8000 dollars...that doesnt mean it actually is 8000. its just the suggested price. likewise, the guitar in question, the GM BFG is actually $1400 at musicians friends. i'm sure you can get a better deal on it on ebay or some other website. 
Buy Gibson Gary Moore BFG Electric Guitar | Solid Body Electric Guitars | Signature Model Electric Guitars | Musician's Friend

then, the original, gibson BFG, which is the same guitar, but offered in different finishes is offered at even a cheaper price. i cant find a link, but in canada, they were being sold for about 850 bucks new. that turns into this:
*850.00 CAD*

*=*

*721.838 USD*

the comparison between an ibanez vs. bfg is not a fair comparison. if at all, its rather retarded coz they are not even the same guitar shape, nor the neck, nor anything! to call one a players guitar doesn't mean a whole lot. i'm not a fan of the ibanez necks, so it doesnt matter how expensive ibanez are, or cheap, to me, they always feel uncomfortable and sound too thin and annoying to my ear.

also, another great thing about a BFG is that it doesnt have that silly honey-moon phase to it. what i mean by that is when people get a new guitar, they tend to baby it for a few months, or even years until they get something better, or if that guitar gets scratched or dented. while that guitar is being babied, the BFG is being gigged and beaten up. even years later, it would still look the same



Arctodus said:


> I'm not going to defend the guitar directly but what are you guys players or collectors? Working at PRS I've seen tons of finish flaws goes right into the finishing line without anyone correcting them. Mahogany and Flame maple tops that swelled when they got stain and it goes out the door like that. I've seen the work directly at the 1st PRS dealer right in Annapolis. No one seemed to really notice it and I pointed it out directly.
> 
> So players aren't really aware of finishing problems. In fact most professional players are pretty air headed about guitars in general. Kind of sad but true, money ruins all. Most of them just want soandso guitar with soandso features and decent action. Can't blame them I rather be worried about playing then how my guitar looks cosmetically.
> 
> ...



correct me if i'm wrong, but the guitars they do find with flaws, they usually just cut in half and turn it into ply-wood or something. 
with flaws like an unmatched top, why not just sell that as a B-Stock? dean guitars do that with their USA line..so why not prs?


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## troyguitar (May 16, 2009)

Looks like trash. I would be fucking pissed if someone sent me that whether it's $2000 or $700.


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## Zahs (May 16, 2009)

soliloquy said:


> the BFG is being gigged and beaten up. even years later, it would still look the same:



Yeah you are right, it would still look like sH*T

There is no excuse for any guitar company to release that onto the market even if it is supposed to be the "style" (the pickup and play)... I look at the pictures and the neck just looks wrong. For 750$ you except some sort of quality standard, because that might as well be firewood. 750$!! pffftttt thats around, what ,500£, i know Yamaha pacificas that have better necks/ better quality finishes and they cost 150£. 

Prs and Gibson imo just don't seem to care anymore, fancy over-priced wood (except most gibsons do the job) but PRS, total F**king overpriced bullSh*t. 

I keep looking at this thread in utter disgust, especially how it this particular guitar is made in the USA aswell, poor show poor show, i'll stick to my japan-made guitars.


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## soliloquy (May 17, 2009)

well, there is still USA carvin, USA dean(though over priced), mcnaught, US MASTERS, GMP, Parker, Washburn and bunch of other guitar companies...including jackson.

but who can prove that there is something wrong with that neck joint? just because its not a conventional and 'the way the entire world does it' type of neck joint...it doesnt really mean its wrong. thats like saying that parker guitars suck for making their fret board out of ebony-wannabe-wood-wannabe synthetic ebenol. or fenders suck for making their guitars out of alder, when the standard seems to be mahogany/maple...


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## HumanFuseBen (May 17, 2009)

that looks like DICK.

who care that its around 800 dollars? my fucking $450 Schecter Blackjack C-1 looks to be built better than that turd!


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 17, 2009)

Soliloquy you can defend the guitar until your blue in the face its still a piece of crap ripoff by comparison to soooo many other options...

You want a les paul? ibanez sells ART series for around 3-400$ new and they would easily kick the shit out of those bfg's... AND they have thicker necks and short scales like typical les pauls so no complaining you don't like the neck profile there.

The fancier art300 which costs 400$ new has a fancy maple top on it that they steam press using a mold to get this crazy look / texture too if you want something fancier than a plain solid color.

I mean theres no defending that BFG its just a ripoff... and I'm just throwing ibanez options out there because I'm an ibanez guy I'm positive we could compile a large list of alternative guitars in the 100-1300$ price range these bfg's are in that easily make the BFG's look like a waste of wood.

Maybe devries went to go work for gibson and the bfg series was his idea


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## sevenstringj (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> Because of the price 2149$ for that amount anybody can get a top notch perfectly set up and playable guitar without any flaws....



First of all, like someone else pointed out, that's how the guitars are made. You can see on their website videos. The "flaws" are no accident.

Second, you're quoting retail. If you quote retail prices, then NOTHING would be worth the money. Would you pay $3000 for a Jackson Soloist? I didn't think so.

To be fair, a Les Paul Standard is $2500 street. This BFG is $1400 street. Sure, I personally--and probably 99.99% of ss.org--wouldn't buy it. But I'm sure the woods and pickups are top notch, and a little TLC would turn that into a pretty sweet guitar by more conventional standards. For less than 20 bucks you could sand the pickup cavities, shield the control cavity, finish it, and even "fix" some of the "flaws." And that's kinda the point, because if you were to ask Gibson to do all that, you'd be paying around $2500. 

If your friend likes the guitar, try not to hate on it too much. As long as it plays and sounds awesome, let him enjoy it.


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## Yoshi (May 17, 2009)

Wait, when did they change the BFG from Ash to Mahogany??


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## budda (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> Because of the price 2149$ for that amount. anybody can get a top notch perfectly set up and playable guitar without any flaws....



there's one thing though. if he wanted something else, he would have got something else.

that's the truth, and you all need to deal with it. If I want a gibson, i'll get one. if i want something else, i'll get something else.

if he hates it later, so be it. he got what he asked for.


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## hufschmid (May 17, 2009)

budda said:


> there's one thing though. if he wanted something else, he would have got something else.
> 
> that's the truth, and you all need to deal with it. If I want a gibson, i'll get one. if i want something else, i'll get something else.
> 
> if he hates it later, so be it. he got what he asked for.



Actually no, he was expecting something else, a decent Gibson to play on and not a BFG, nobody told him about those finish problems and especially not that they are considered to be ''normal'' by Gibson....

Thats the thing, he got a little too exited when he was reading the name Gary Moore on the headstock and like many others bought this crap....

Good thing is the music shop gave his money back and will find an other deal for him, possibly a second hand Gibson which will be 1 million times better....



soliloquy said:


> but who can prove that there is something wrong with that neck joint?



I can, I'm a guitar maker, no guitar maker in the world would build a guitar which has a fingerboard going into the body with a 2mm gap on the edges.... 

If the great Orville would still be alive, he would go down there and beat the living hell out of some people responsable for the actualy production... This is total blasfemy to Orville's original work and an insult to his name


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## drmosh (May 17, 2009)

that is fucking atrocious.


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## budda (May 17, 2009)

shoulda just bought a standard or studio *sigh*


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## lefty robb (May 17, 2009)

This Gibson Epic Fail gets 4 out of 5 Ed Romans...


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## sevenstringj (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> Actually no, he was expecting something else, a decent Gibson to play on and not a BFG, nobody told him about those finish problems and especially not that they are considered to be ''normal'' by Gibson....



I suppose that's what you get when you buy a guitar simply because a semi-famous guitarist has his name on it. 



hufschmid said:


> I can, I'm a guitar maker, no guitar maker in the world would build a guitar which has a fingerboard going into the body with a 2mm gap on the edges....
> 
> If the great Orville would still be alive, he would go down there and beat the living hell out of some people responsable for the actualy production... This is total blasfemy to Orville's original work and an insult to his name



I've never seen the top of a body overlap the fretboard anyway, so what's the big deal? The joint itself looks solid.

If your friend didn't like the "flaws" and brought it to you to confirm, then that's cool. But if he was digging it until you called out the "flaws" then that kinda sucks.


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## ZeroSignal (May 17, 2009)

I find it hilarious that Gibson can make a disgusting amount of money from _lowering_ their quality control and making even shittier guitars and people just lap it up. Some people are just fools, plain and simple.


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## hufschmid (May 17, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> I've never seen the top of a body overlap the fretboard anyway, so what's the big deal? The joint itself looks solid.



Really? The big deal = the action is now so high that its unplayable, but maybe this is considered to be normal since anyway this guitar will be played by non refined players so they wont notice anything....









sevenstringj said:


> If your friend didn't like the "flaws" and brought it to you to confirm, then that's cool. But if he was digging it until you called out the "flaws" then that kinda sucks.



Thats kind of inventing things I have not said in my first post.....

Did you read my last post? He was not expecting that thype of guitar, he wanted a Gibson, not a piece of crap...

And he had no idea about this BFG story, nor did I, nor did the salesman, over here its a little different, the marketing of unpersonal brands does not exist, this guitar was probably put it that shop by a representent of the brand, you need ''so much'' gibsons in a shop in order to have the right to sell the brand....



sevenstringj said:


> I suppose that's what you get when you buy a guitar simply because a semi-famous guitarist has his name on it. :rolleyes



Indeed very sad...


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## Harry (May 17, 2009)

Absolute turdnoxious


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## MF_Kitten (May 17, 2009)

what the hell is going on here? what did they do there???

man, hufschmid, you should build a super-hawt les paul-shaped guitar with a quilted maple top and mahogany body, and just make it ten times more sexy than this piece of shit, and make it with your usual raw/distressed kind of look... the guy who came up with the BFG would pee himself and cry, and maybe gary moore would buy it from you to replace his gibson


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## hufschmid (May 17, 2009)

I'm not a legend 

I cant produce such amazing guitars


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## MF_Kitten (May 17, 2009)

you´re legend enough to make a BFG the right way!


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## sevenstringj (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> Really? The big deal = the action is now so high that its unplayable



So the problem is not the gap per se, it's that there's too much wood on top so the lowest the bridge can be set still results in sky-high action?



hufschmid said:


> Thats kind of inventing things I have not said in my first post.....
> 
> Did you read my last post? He was not expecting that thype of guitar, he wanted a Gibson, not a piece of crap...
> 
> And he had no idea about this BFG story, nor did I, nor did the salesman, over here its a little different, the marketing of unpersonal brands does not exist, this guitar was probably put it that shop by a representent of the brand, you need ''so much'' gibsons in a shop in order to have the right to sell the brand...



I did, it just baffled me.  And it still baffles me! That's why I thought maybe he liked it until you pointed out the flaws. It's just hard to understand how someone could buy a guitar IN A STORE just because the headstock says Gary Moore, and not even LOOK at the rest of the guitar until getting home!?!?!?  If he bought it online or over the phone I can sorta understand, though I always research an instrument first.


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## hufschmid (May 17, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> I did, it just baffled me.  And it still baffles me! That's why I thought maybe he liked it until you pointed out the flaws. It's just hard to understand how someone could buy a guitar IN A STORE just because the headstock says Gary Moore, and not even LOOK at the rest of the guitar until getting home!?!?!?  If he bought it online or over the phone I can sorta understand, though I always research an instrument first.



sadly, i think 80% of players buy instruments only because of the name on the headstock without testing or getting information about it first...

you just have to see in those shops how people droll over gibson guitars, its pretty crazy, as if they have an orgasm watching it...

psychology has a lots to do in purshasing a guitar when you are influenced by what you read in either forums or in magazines.....

like i pointed out recently, take the trademark gibson off from the headstock and replace the trademark by ''Maison'' or ''Bunny'' curioussly, the guitar which played and sounded so great will all of a sudden sound like crap and be hiedous....


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## twiztedchild (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> And he had no idea about this BFG story, nor did I, nor did the salesman, over here its a little different, the marketing of unpersonal brands does not exist, *this guitar was probably put it that shop by a representent of the brand, you need ''so much'' gibsons in a shop in order to have the right to sell the brand....*
> 
> 
> Indeed very sad...



that is how it is here, at least with the local music shop. they were told that they HAD to buy $50,000 USD worth of Gibson guitars to be a "Dealer" and keep them all in the small 30 foot by 30 foot shop he has


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## hufschmid (May 17, 2009)

twiztedchild said:


> that is how it is here, at least with the local music shop. they were told that they HAD to buy $50,000 USD worth of Gibson guitars to be a "Dealer" and keep them all in the small 30 foot by 30 foot shop he has



yeah, I think that to have the right to sell Fender guitars over here, you must buy a 25000$ stock, thats why little shops dont sell fenders over here in switzerland, only the ''big'' shops (i would tend to say corrupted, in french we say ''copinage''... friends who know friends who are friends with friends) have the rights to sell them...

anyway thats an other story


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## twiztedchild (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> yeah, I think that to have the right to sell Fender guitars over here, you must buy a 25000$ stock, thats why little shops dont sell fenders over here in switzerland, only the ''big'' shops (i would tend to say corrupted, in french we say ''copinage''... friends who know friends who are friends with friends) have the rights to sell them...
> 
> anyway thats an other story



the guy sells fenders though and some Ibanez guitars. but I think he has a contract wih fender to sell there guitars and they haven't pushed Jackson or any of there other brands on the guy so I guess thats a plus to him  he said he can get anything though, He buys it from a different store then sell it at his store for like $20 bucks more


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## hufschmid (May 17, 2009)

We do live in such a great world dont we


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## twiztedchild (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> We do live in such a great world dont we





his store is better then the last one though. the last one ONLY sold Samicks and if you asked for a 7 string or any other brand it was "No one plays those here" or "No one plays 7 strings, there is no point in them" I was happy to find out that there most expenivse guitar, the Explorer lookalike Samick which was like $600 usd was stolen and pawned at a pawn shop a few blocks down from the store  then they started trying to sell used computers and parts then shut down when the other guy opened his store and Had Fenders and some Ibanez and even a few Epiphones


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## ShadyDavey (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> take the trademark gibson off from the headstock and replace the trademark by ''Maison'' or ''Bunny'' curioussly, the guitar which played and sounded so great will all of a sudden sound like crap and be hiedous....



Very, very true. A lot of the prestige of owning a guitar with Ibanez, or Gibson, or Fender on the headstock tends to blind the buyer to obvious faults.....and the companies prety on that.

More on topic - the old limited edition Gary Moore Heritage was a beautiful guitar but I can't understand why he would want his name associated with this obvious piece of shit. Money talks and bullshit walks I guess....


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## twiztedchild (May 17, 2009)

what's thedeal with that p90 pickup anyways?


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## ShadyDavey (May 17, 2009)

/guess

The original LP that Gary got from Peter Green was renowned for a rather nasal twang it had due to the neck pickup having been turned around by a repairman which lead to it being out of phase - perhaps they're simply recreating that nasal-twang kind of vibe?

*shrug*


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## hufschmid (May 17, 2009)

When i tested that guitar, the switch was a 2 position, one position turned off the guitar signal...

According to the shop thats because garry likes the effect in the sound of quickly turning off and on the sound of the guitar...


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## possumkiller (May 17, 2009)

i too am a victim of gibson. i was in iraq and wanted a flying vee so i could be like toki wartooth and play sloppy rhythm guitar. it was a gibson 3 pickup worn vee. i read reviews and people were raving about the thin finish making the guitar sound better and all that jazz. so i was expecting something cool. no way man. the wood looks like it was cut out and shaped in somebodys high school woodshop. and when it was BRAND NEW the electronics were screwed up. some of the pickup positions (like my favorite BRIDGE position) wouldnt even work. so i thought i would get some good parts and make it better. i replaced everything except the wood, paint, frets, inlays, glue, and trussrod. it has all high quality parts on it that i spent more than the guitar itself cost on. and i still HATE it!!!!!!!!!!! im trying to sell it just to get rid of it. the only thing i will give it is it sounds good. thats all. and it plays pretty decently actually. so thats the most important i guess is it sounds good and plays fine. but still i couldve got a bc rich nj deluxe v for cheaper and not had to replace a damn thing. so yeah my cousin and i no longer call a piece of shit guitar a piece of shit. we call it a piece of gibson. never again will i buy a piece of gibson.


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## Yoshi (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> sadly, i think 80% of players buy instruments only because of the name on the headstock without testing or getting information about it first...
> 
> you just have to see in those shops how people droll over gibson guitars, its pretty crazy, as if they have an orgasm watching it...
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, Pat speaks the truth. I can go into Kosmic and see people look at a guitar for 20 minutes, have a strum and buy it without testing it.

Sure I did buy my M-II blind, but I knew what I was getting and I got what I was expecting so no problem. Gibson = Crap anyways for the most part. I never thought I'd have to fork out 8k for an LPC in my life but look here we are.


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## twiztedchild (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> When i tested that guitar, the switch was a 2 position, one position turned off the guitar signal...
> 
> According to the shop thats because garry likes the effect in the sound of quickly turning off and on the sound of the guitar...



 so there is really only use for one pickup? if that is the case WHY the hell did they put in two?


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## hufschmid (May 17, 2009)

twiztedchild said:


> so there is really only use for one pickup? if that is the case WHY the hell did they put in two?



no the pickups are controled with the volumes...

the switch is only there to cut the signal...


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## twiztedchild (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> no the pickups are controled with the volumes...
> 
> the switch is only there to cut the signal...



oh like the Kill switch Idea of the dude from RATM....I cant for the life of me remember the fuckers name


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## ShadyDavey (May 17, 2009)

Tom Morello. Buckethead does a lot of the same thing although I think Tom was first of the two...Randy Rhoads and Van Halen have both used the same trick, as well as a couple of others who's names escape me


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## twiztedchild (May 17, 2009)

ShadyDavey said:


> Tom Morello. Buckethead does a lot of the same thing although I think Tom was first of the two...Randy Rhoads and Van Halen have both used the same trick, as well as a couple of others who's names escape me



yeah thats the dude. 

I just remembered that My old AX7221's had a weird switch issue like this. IF I had the Neck pickups volume down and put he switch in the middle it shut off the guitars sound but when I brought the neck volume up the sound came back


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## PnKnG (May 17, 2009)

twiztedchild said:


> yeah thats the dude.
> 
> I just remembered that My old AX7221's had a weird switch issue like this. IF I had the Neck pickups volume down and put he switch in the middle it shut off the guitars sound but when I brought the neck volume up the sound came back



On every LP I tried it does this to. Seems something with the design of a 3 way toogle switch that makes this happening.

Also about Tom Morello. Tom uses 2 different "technics" to do the killswitching. As examples we can take his 2 most famous guitars.
Arm The Homeless (ATH) and Soul Power (SP).
On ATH he turns down the volume on the neck pickup to 0 and leaves the bridge at 10. Than he toggles via a 3 way switch between the bridge and the neck. The same thing can be done on every guitar with 2 seperated volume pots.
On SP he has an actually killswitch (2 way toggle switch). The switch just grounds the whole guitar signal. I have turn my Kramer into a copy of SP.

As some already said RR and Eddie have done it before Tom via the ATH technic. But Tom was the first that actually used it as a playing/picking technic.
The way Buckethead does it (a button instead of a switch) is faster but I like switching more. Just looks more stylish.


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## 7deadlysins666 (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> no the pickups are controled with the volumes...
> 
> the switch is only there to cut the signal...



But there are two switches on the guitar....isn't one of them your normal pickup selector and the other a killswitch?


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## soliloquy (May 17, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> When i tested that guitar, the switch was a 2 position, one position turned off the guitar signal...
> 
> According to the shop thats because garry likes the effect in the sound of quickly turning off and on the sound of the guitar...






the BFGs, rather, all of bfgs come with 3 control knobs which control vol/vol/tone. then comes with two toggle knobs. one is a kill switch which only has two positions. garry doesnt have that on his other les paul, so it not something 'he likes'. the second switch is a 3 way toggle...

P-90's dont create that twang that the green/moore guitar had. its just a different pickup that combines whatever the singlecoil and the humbucker produces. it creates this harsh tone that is really really aggressive, but it also sobers down rather easily with the control of the volume knob. you can see em being used in random metal bands, but also in more mellow stuff like david gilmors gold top les paul 



and for all you guys bitching about one thing or another. here. the exact same guitar with same features with the exception of the guitar looking like all other les pauls
http://www.gibson.com/press/usa/product/2007_GotW/Q3 2007 Guitars/LPSBEBCH1_.JPG


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## PnKnG (May 17, 2009)

I don't get why they put a killswitch on an LP. ITS ALREADY BUILT IN. just turn down 1 on the pickups to 0 and toggle with the 3 way switch.


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## Russell (May 17, 2009)

i believe gibsonare doing there best to finally put there company out of buisness ,totally shocking send that back and ask for an apollogy.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 17, 2009)

I never liked GibsFAIL


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## BigPhi84 (May 17, 2009)

Off-topic, Okeechobee is an awesome-sounding name!  Those native americans and their crazy words.



twiztedchild said:


> yeah thats the dude.
> 
> I just remembered that My old AX7221's had a weird switch issue like this. IF I had the Neck pickups volume down and put he switch in the middle it shut off the guitars sound but when I brought the neck volume up the sound came back



On-topic. The way volume knobs work in a guitar is that the volume pot bleeds the electric signal to ground and this draining of electricity is varied by the moving internals of the pot. Since guitar electronics are wired in series, when you put the switch of a Les Paul in the middle and turn one of the volumes all the way down, both pickups' entire electric signals are sent to ground by that one pot. It sucks. That's why I always mod my guitars to have only on volume pot. I never use those quirky "one-volume on 5, the other on 8" settings anyways, and to tell you the truth, I get confused as to what volume knob I need to turn down to cut the sound off in the adrenaline rush on stage.


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## sevenstringj (May 17, 2009)

PnKnG said:


> I don't get why they put a killswitch on an LP. ITS ALREADY BUILT IN. just turn down 1 on the pickups to 0 and toggle with the 3 way switch.



 I believe that's how Morello did it!


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## Adamh1331 (May 17, 2009)

What a shame.


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## PnKnG (May 17, 2009)

sevenstringj said:


> I believe that's how Morello did it!



read my post before the one that you replied to.  but yes, on some of his guitars.


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## The Dark Wolf (May 17, 2009)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Soliloquy you can defend the guitar until your blue in the face its still a piece of crap ripoff by comparison to soooo many other options...



This.


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## jacksonplayer (May 17, 2009)

I would never buy a production Gibson anymore unless I had a chance to inspect and play it first. The fact that the neck was set in too low on this one is absolutely unforgivable. There is literally nothing you could do to fix it, short of removing the neck and putting on a different one.


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## Stitch (May 17, 2009)

I was saying this back in March.

Exactly why I hate Gibson as a company.


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## Cheesebuiscut (May 17, 2009)

stitch said:


> I'd hate them more if they weren't so damn easy to sell. It feels like I'm clubbing baby seals when I watch my customer leave the shop.



 I nearly fell out of my chair laughing.


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## hufschmid (May 18, 2009)

Stitch said:


> I was saying this back in March.
> 
> Exactly why I hate Gibson as a company.



Nice, now I know that the neck joint is not only a mistake on 1 but on all of them 

This means that they intentionally put the programm into the CNC machines, which is totally


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## GazPots (May 18, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> Nice, now I know that the neck joint is not only a mistake on 1 but on all of them
> 
> This means that they intentionally put the programm into the CNC machines, which is totally




It's Gibson man, they're famous for stuff like this.


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## noob_pwn (May 18, 2009)

that is just purely shameful.
gibson must have hired devries to manage their qc


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## twiztedchild (May 18, 2009)

BigPhi84 said:


> Off-topic, Okeechobee is an awesome-sounding name!  Those native americans and their crazy words.
> 
> 
> 
> On-topic. The way volume knobs work in a guitar is that the volume pot bleeds the electric signal to ground and this draining of electricity is varied by the moving internals of the pot. Since guitar electronics are wired in series, when you put the switch of a Les Paul in the middle and turn one of the volumes all the way down, both pickups' entire electric signals are sent to ground by that one pot. It sucks. That's why I always mod my guitars to have only on volume pot. I never use those quirky "one-volume on 5, the other on 8" settings anyways, and to tell you the truth, I get confused as to what volume knob I need to turn down to cut the sound off in the adrenaline rush on stage.




First, Okeechobee means Big Water in Seminole  because of are 20 foot deep lake that covers like the area of 3 countrys 

Second, that explains alot man thinks


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