# GAH...Soundguy Troubles, Bandleader Concerns, Life In The Fast Lane I Suppose...



## scottro202 (Jan 28, 2010)

Hey ya'll.

So, as some of you know, I play in the praise band at my church. It's cool and all, but I have problems hearing myself. I won't say "most" of the time, but enough of a problem to where I ask myself before the band does soundcheck "will I be able to hear myself?". And I ask him to turn me up, as politely as I can, and most of the time he doesn't turn me up enough  

Besides the (all to frequent) "hey dude, can you give me a bit more in this monitor?" I have pretty much kept quiet about the whole thing. I haven't made a HUGE fuss about it, and it's getting annoying. I DO like playing the praise band, as boring as it can get sometimes, but overall it's fun (when the sound's good). 

ALL I can hear is the lead singer/acoustic guitarist/youth minister/bandleader's guitar and vocals, then the drums behind me, then enough of my guitar to know it's on, then bass, the background vocals in that order, from "WTF dude turn down" to "wait, he's here today?"

And the thing is, the soundguy isn't a "musician" by how you and I know the term (passionate about music, "serious" about it, etc.), not to say it's a bad thing overall, but I'm not sure if he should be our soundguy, even for a praise band at a church...

Let me tell you a little story, from a few months ago...

So, every year, the middle school kids and the band go on a retreat, to this Christian camp center thingamajiggy. We get soundchecked be a professional soundguy when we get there, then our soundguy does sound for the rest of the weekend. 

So, we get there, I have my (extremely unimpressive) "church rig": 

*insert guitar here* Vox Wah > Ibanez TS9>Line 6 Spider 3 (especially for retreats where I don't want to bring my vintage tube amp combo, and it's to much of a PITA and too loud for the praise band at the church)

anyways, Soundcheck with the pro. I hear myself very well, everything's good. I brought my 7 for this retreat, due to the bassist not being able to go.

The minister, Stephen, asks his wife, Karen how the sound is. (Karen is a music major, so I "respect" her opinion, and take it to note). She says my guitar's too "over powering". She also said this a couple nights ago, at soundcheck. Now, opinion's opinion, what ya gonna do? BUT, the professional sound guy (God bless this man) turned me up to where HE felt it was good, and what will ya know, I was happy as well.

SO, if you wanna be all technical about it...

Pro soundguy and me happy, same levels. youth minister and wife happy, not pro sound guy happy's levels

Now, I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, ALL I know is, I'm not happy with how things are going. I may sound like a little prick who wants it to be all about him, but I think, as good or bad a player as I am, I should be able to tell what I'm playing.

Should I talk to the soundguy, talk to Stephen (youth minister), get over it and move on with my life, turn satanist (just kidding), or what? 

On a slightly unrelated note. I get the feeling the band would go A LOT smoother if Stephen didn't be a part of the band, and he just lead us, like a band director would for a concert band. You don't normally see the director going and grabbing a trumpet, do you? (yes, not the same music, but same principal here). I'm not the only one who gets that feeling, either. I don't know, it doesn't bother me as much, I'm just curious as to what ya'll have to say. I have no real evidence to back this up, I'm just thinking. 

TL, DR: Crappy soundguy, can't hear myself, won't turn me up. What to do?

And remember, it's not ALL the time. There are nights where I can hear myself fine, but this happens enough of the time where I would spend the last however long it took me to type this typing up a thread to ask what to do for it.

Any advice is much appreciated!!!

And I would also like ya'll to keep personal religious beliefs out of this thread, thanks!!  (Unless you think it would help me in any way, there are exceptions to every rule, ya know).

Scotty

EDIT: I think I forgot to mention this. I run my amp direct through the PA, nothing coming out of the actual speaker of the amp.

EDIT2: I should have been much more specific, I not only can't hear myself, I'm low in the mix as well.


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## hide (Jan 29, 2010)

I didn't understand if the problem is that only you can't hear yourself, or if you're low in the overall mix for the audience. If it's the first case, I don't see why you shouldn't get what you want in your monitor. If you can't get the sound guy do that, just buy a 50$ mixer and put in the chain between your amp and the main mixer, and feed your monior, or some (in ear, preferably) earphones.

If it's the second one, it all comes down to the personal relation with the other members/soundguy, so I can't tell.


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## scottro202 (Jan 29, 2010)

hide said:


> I didn't understand if the problem is that only you can't hear yourself, or if you're low in the overall mix for the audience. If it's the first case, I don't see why you shouldn't get what you want in your monitor. If you can't get the sound guy do that, just buy a 50$ mixer and put in the chain between your amp and the main mixer, and feed your monior, or some (in ear, preferably) earphones.
> 
> If it's the second one, it all comes down to the personal relation with the other members/soundguy, so I can't tell.



Sorry, I should have been more specific. It is both  I'm not concerned about the FOH mix as much, if he wants to make me barely audible, that's his deal. I just wanna be able to hear my guitar


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## B36arin (Jan 29, 2010)

Why don't you use your amp to monitor yourself? You can put it right next to you and turn it up loud enough that you'll hear yourself. If it isn't being mic'ed at all but lined to the PA you can use your amp for monitoring. That way you can set it up exactly like you want to 

You won't be able to affect how loud the sound tech puts you in the mix unless you speak to the sound tech and make yourself perfectly clear. But when you're sitting on stage you're really not the right person to judge the balance of the FOH mix. If other people are complaining that your guitar isn't loud enough in the mix, make sure to get them to tell the sound tech


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## I_infect (Jan 29, 2010)

scottro202 said:


> I just wanna be able to hear my guitar



You mentioned a TS9... just wondering how much gain you're using? maybe they are equating volume with a 'metal' tone? maybe they think your tone doesn't fit well in the praise music? she could mean overpowering, in that sense. just trying to figure it out, not meaning any offense.


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## sol niger 333 (Feb 1, 2010)

If I were Jesus I'd tell you to turn down your gain, turn up your mids and master volume. Then I'd tell you to run a cab so you have some on stage sound and don't have to rely on monitors which aren't always up to scratch. Then I'd throw down a mosh


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## scottro202 (Feb 1, 2010)

sol niger 333 said:


> If I were Jesus I'd tell you to turn down your gain, turn up your mids and master volume. Then I'd tell you to run a cab so you have some on stage sound and don't have to rely on monitors which aren't always up to scratch. Then I'd throw down a mosh



My amp stays at church so I can't see my settings, but I don't use much gain at all, my TS9 settings are 12 o clock on everything (into a clean setting), and my mids are maxed out 

And the thing is, the line out on the Line 6 disables the speaker, so it is just running the amp modeling. 



I_infect said:


> You mentioned a TS9... just wondering how much gain you're using? maybe they are equating volume with a 'metal' tone? maybe they think your tone doesn't fit well in the praise music? she could mean overpowering, in that sense. just trying to figure it out, not meaning any offense.



I see what you mean, no offense taken. They may be equating it with a "metal" (to their "pure" ears ), but I don't think it's that way at all. It's probably an AC/DC sorta crunch thing, but I AM using a 7 string guitar with active pickups... Would pickups be a deciding factor in this sorta thing? Or is it my settings and/or tuning? (I'm not afraid to use my low B string on my 7)



B36arin said:


> But when you're sitting on stage you're really not the right person to judge the balance of the FOH mix. If other people are complaining that your guitar isn't loud enough in the mix, make sure to get them to tell the sound tech



I have stepped out to the front row of the room (long cables FTW), to see if I could be heard out there, even worse than on stage


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## B36arin (Feb 1, 2010)

The front row of the room isn't always a true representation, depending on where the PA speakers are, but if you can't be heard at all, you probably have a problem. 

Sol_niger_33's advice is good, get something on stage that will actually sound if the engineer isn't good enough to handle your DI.


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## Scar Symmetry (Feb 1, 2010)

sol niger 333 said:


> If I were Jesus I'd tell you to turn down your gain, turn up your mids and master volume. Then I'd tell you to run a cab so you have some on stage sound and don't have to rely on monitors which aren't always up to scratch. Then I'd throw down a mosh



Great post in a not so great thread


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## scottro202 (Feb 1, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Great post in a not so great thread



 

Anyways, I'm not sure it would be the best idea to run a cab onstage. It's a pretty small room (relatively speaking as far as concert venues go, it holds up to 150 people maybe?), and a small stage, and I don't want a cab onstage mucking up the sound onstage, because then everybody in the band will be bitching at me to turn down when I can barely hear myself in the first place  

That being said, and totally contradicting my last point, would micing some really small (>10 watts) tube combo work for my purpose? Not too loud, yet I could crank it and hear myself decently and not get out to the audience?

And I probably seem like some whiny kid who's pissed because he can't crank his amp ,and I totally understand where you're coming from, but I'm not, I'm just just getting pissed that I can't even hear myself on the stage and when I fuck up, even when I know it, I can't hear it


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## Scar Symmetry (Feb 1, 2010)

I'm not being rude, I just think it's a lot of fuss over nothing personally. I have soundguy troubles every single gig I play, but I don't delegate those troubles to people on here


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## scottro202 (Feb 1, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I'm not being rude, I just think it's a lot of fuss over nothing personally. I have soundguy troubles every single gig I play, but I don't delegate those troubles to people on here




Yeah, I was just messin with ya man  

And I realize this isn't gonna be something that's gonna stop, I would just like to hear some advice for now, and for the future, ya know? I'm only 15 (hopefully it doesn't show... ), and I would like to have some sound advice from ss.org, not only for the remainder of the time with the praise band, but for every other gig I will ever do, ever.

Plus (and in retrospect I should have mentioned this early on), I only have a bass and an acoustic guitar to keep up with, how can I NOT compete sonically with that?


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## B36arin (Feb 1, 2010)

The most important piece of advice is that you should sound good on stage. Get your rig to be consistent, and get it to sound really well, so the engineer has something to work with. That's basically what you can do. Sometimes engineers screw up, from my experience it's much more common that the band sounds like shit on stage and doesn't give the engineer anything to work with.


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## AvantGuardian (Feb 1, 2010)

Honestly, I think your biggest problem is the fact that you're relying on your monitors to hear yourself. I bring a POD to gigs as a backup in case I have amp trouble. I've had to use it twice (at two different venues), going direct into the board. I could BARELY hear myself either time and the sound guy kept telling me he couldn't make me any louder in my monitor. I don't know if it is my settings or Line 6 gear or what, but my tone really couldn't cut through the monitor mix. Friends in the audience said the guitar was quiter than usual (typically I'm running my 100w Tremoverb) but audible.

If its at all possible to have an amp onstage with a speaker just for you, I'd go that route. That way you have a lot more control over what you're hearing on stage. As for what the crowd hears... well... sometimes you're just at the mercy of the sound guy no matter what you say. It happens to us all.


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## scottro202 (Feb 1, 2010)

AvantGuardian said:


> Honestly, I think your biggest problem is the fact that you're relying on your monitors to hear yourself. I bring a POD to gigs as a backup in case I have amp trouble. I've had to use it twice (at two different venues), going direct into the board. I could BARELY hear myself either time and the sound guy kept telling me he couldn't make me any louder in my monitor. I don't know if it is my settings or Line 6 gear or what, but my tone really couldn't cut through the monitor mix. Friends in the audience said the guitar was quiter than usual (typically I'm running my 100w Tremoverb) but audible.
> 
> If its at all possible to have an amp onstage with a speaker just for you, I'd go that route. That way you have a lot more control over what you're hearing on stage. As for what the crowd hears... well... sometimes you're just at the mercy of the sound guy no matter what you say. It happens to us all.



Yeah, I get what you mean. It's just, my thinking behind all the problems sound wise I have, if THEY can hear me, then it's fine. And if I can hear me, then I don't mind at all, so I would at least want one or the other, I kinda gave up on both them and me hearing me a while ago  

I'm thinking about getting a little tube amp (either a JSX Mini Colossal or Fender Super Champ XD) and micing it, but I want a bass too... GAS sucks, doesn't it?


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## Joeywilson (Feb 1, 2010)

just kill everybody, problem solved.


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## Cuda (Feb 4, 2010)

I think that the master volume greatly affects the line out, it's super loud going to the board and anything above one will over power the rest of the mix. 

I tried to do some LO recordings to the computer but it was super loud and I had to reduce the master volume to like 1-2 and mess with EQ before I could get anything I could use that wasn't clipping like crazy or just waaay too loud.

It'd probably be easier just to mic a cab up. Would sound a bit better and you could control your volume better.

You need to play around with some settings for sure. At least you can get it sorted out knowing the place as well as you do.Just try different things to find the right setup.


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## hide (Feb 5, 2010)

scottro202 said:


> I'm thinking about getting a little tube amp (either a JSX Mini Colossal or Fender Super Champ XD) and micing it, but I want a bass too... GAS sucks, doesn't it?



I hear you 

The fact is that "overpowering" is too ambiguous. It might mean everything from "too loud" to "too cutting". It might be fixed with lower output level, slightly lower mids (never thought I'd reccommend that), less presence, sweeter tone in general. It may also depend on your dynamics: if you have strong peak swings from the average volume that'd be percieved as "too loud".

Mic'ing a small tube amp should result in a better overall tone, and you'd have the speaker for the stage sound, so I'd go for that.

EDIT: Wait, doesn't the spidervalve have an headphones out?


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