# Schecter C-7 Blackjack ATX vs. Schecter Jeff Loomis



## WrathOfGirth (Jul 28, 2009)

Next on my purchase list, between the two it's a nasty decision though as the C-7 ATX happens to be cheaper, has an ebony fretboard and has Duncan Blackouts.
I'm not a fan of floyd rose's after the amount of hassle I was having with my Schecter Revenger FR. The two models I'm looking at are string thru with a Tonepros Bridge

Links to the two guitars:
SCHECTER DIAMOND C-7 BLACKJACK ATX AWHT - U.K. International Cyberstore
SCHECTER DIAMOND JEFF LOOMIS - U.K. International Cyberstore

C-7 Blackjack ATX:
Schecter Diamond C-7 Blackjack ATX ABWT E-Guitar 7 string, Mahogany Body, Mahogany Neck, Ebony Fretboard, 24 Jumbo Frets, Active Symbol Inlay on12th Fret, Seymour Duncan Active Black Out Pickups Humbucker, TonePros TOM Bridge, Aged 3-ply Binding, Black Chrome Hardware, Color Aged White Satin

Jeff Loomis:
Schecter Diamond Jeff Loomis E-Guitar, Signature, 7 string, Ash Body, Maple Set in Neck, Maple Fretboard, 24 Jumbo Frets, Metal Cross Inlays, Scale 26,5", 2x EMG 707 Pickups, TonePros Bridge, Finish Vampyre Red Satin


----------



## Scali (Jul 28, 2009)

A non-trem Loomis? I thought they stopped making those months ago.
At any rate, I suppose the main difference is the tone of the two guitars. The Loomis has a really 'spanky' bright tone, mahogany is much darker, more mellow.
And then there's EMG 707 vs Blackouts. It seems that most people prefer blackouts.

I suppose the Blackjack is more suitable for rhythm playing (big chunky rhythm sound), where the Loomis is more suitable for shred (tight sound with incredible note definition, making it easy to play fast and accurate).

At least, that's my take on it.


----------



## ralphy1976 (Jul 28, 2009)

well, mike

I am afraid but i am yet to try a schecter, i'd like to but i haven't found oen yet, and since the next axe to try on my list is a ESP Sc-608B, i can not really comment, but Scali's comments seems to fit with the type of wood / pick-ups whicih are available

If possible try to find a local shop where you can try them out?


----------



## WrathOfGirth (Jul 28, 2009)

Yeah, I've found there's not a lot of places in Wales stocking Schecter guitars which is a shame.

The kinda things I'm looking to play with the guitar is similar to the style of Born of Osiris, just obviously on a 7. Dark melodic lead and I'd like to use the guitar through the clean channel often as well. I heard the Duncans make the clean tone muddy unless you turn the volume knob down a fair bit.


----------



## TheSixthWheel (Jul 28, 2009)

While I have only played the Loomis and not the ATX, the Loomis is definitely capable of what you describe you want it to be able to do. I replaced the EMG 707s with Duncan Blackouts, and the thing has really come into a life of it own. It's not too dark, and it's not too bright. One thing it IS though, is fucking fantastic 

There's stacks of threads here about both guitars, *search* is your friend.


----------



## CrushingAnvil (Jul 29, 2009)

The Loomis is made in Korea but so far I haven't heard and complaints about it. 

I'd go for the loomish bro

And you should know the Loomis has an Original Floyd rose not a licensed...You wont have the same problems you had with the Revenger.


----------



## HaGGuS (Jul 29, 2009)

I regret selling my loomis.
They are really nice guitars.
Put a set of blackouts in one and you have a sonic flame thrower


----------



## Lankles (Jul 29, 2009)

Flip a coin. They're very evenly matched guitars.


----------



## WrathOfGirth (Jul 29, 2009)

Yeah this is the thing between the two.
I'm a student not made of money, birthdays coming up and I'm taking advantage of that to try and leech out enough to buy either one.
I won't have the money to get a set of blackouts strait off for the Loomis, but the blackjack already has them installed. Been thinking about designing a guitar on warmoth and I wanted to get an ebony fretboard which the Blackjack also has.
All in all though, I don't really know that much about the qualities of woods and what would be the best to play.
I'm going to try and get the version without a floyd. Their still selling it on Thomann. I never really use the floyd and I just see it as a bit of an inconvienience having one.
Problems I had with the licensed on the Revenger were that the strings would pop out the bottom (even when they were tightly locked in) when I was restringing the guitar, and also when I used to the trem the G string would tend to go out of tune by 1/4 of a step or less which I'd have to do a bit more twiddling with the trem arm to try and put it back as a quick solution. 

The decision between the two guitars is a hard one.
Would I get the £70 more out of buying the loomis?
I'm running through a Bugera 6260 (copy of the 6505 / 5150 in many ways, budjet option)
Are there any other options that you would suggest?
Unlike a lot of 7 string players, I'm not a big fan of Ibanez (curse words right there)


----------



## Jackson12s (Jul 29, 2009)

The blackouts sound really nice clean, I played them through my Fender DeVille, and it was godly.


----------



## HumanFuseBen (Jul 29, 2009)

considering how similar the guitars are sound-wise and feature-wise, i would put my money towards whichever one i thought looked cooler. i know that sounds superficial, but they're almost the same axe... just get whichever one you like looking at!


----------



## Scali (Jul 29, 2009)

Well, I think the guitars are pretty much of equal quality, the difference is just sound and looks (and you probably pay a bit extra for the Loomis name).
So whether or not you get your 70 quid out of it, depends on which guitar sounds/looks best to you, and how important looks and sound are to you.


----------



## WrathOfGirth (Jul 29, 2009)

Scali said:


> depends on which guitar sounds/looks best to you, and how important looks and sound are to you.



I couldn't care if I played a Frankenstein guitar as long as it played nice and got me a close to that 'unreachable sound' that we try to achieve. You'll see underground bands that are fairly popular using guitars that look like they've sprayed diarrhoea all over the thing because their DIY job on it was appauling, but you have a decent listen to the sound and it's bad ass.

Thinking towards the Jeff Loomis though, sounds like a solid guitar to go for.


----------



## Scali (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm leaning more towards the Blackjack myself 
Even though I'm more of a lead player than a rhythm player, I've always liked the dark and creamy tones of a Les Paul, especially the ebony fretboard ones, because the ebony gives good articulation for fast runs.
I don't particularly care for Jeff Loomis' tone, to be honest. He used to use a regular mahogany Blackjack, which sounded darker and less sharp than his current tone. I think I'd like that tone better.


----------



## WrathOfGirth (Jul 29, 2009)

Ah right, I've never really had a decent listen to Jeff Loomis band Nevermore or his solo stuff so I'm at the same view on that.
I've heard the ebony fretboards are meant to be good, I just don't understand why their meant to be good. I've never really researched into things like this and it's one of my main reason for joining the forums to learn about things like that and the kind of sounds different woods give.
Do you have any examples Scali that you can give me comparing the two guitars sound?


----------



## HamBungler (Jul 29, 2009)

Well, look at it this way. If you're looking for in-your-face heavy rhythm and smooth leads, the Blackjack is the way to go. If you're looking for more of a lead instrument with articulate rhythm, then the Loomis is the way to go. However, I've always found EMGs to have horrible cleans, its possible to get alright ones I'm sure but I've heard the Blackouts have a better clean tone overall. I'd go for the Blackjack myself as I'm a big fan of mahogany's sound, and with the ebony fretboard it won't be too awful dark and will add a bit of punch. They are both quality instruments though, so you can't really go wrong either way.


----------



## Scali (Jul 29, 2009)

Well, here's Jeff on a Blackjack:


And here on his signature model:


The first one sounds darker and smoother to me, the second one is really 'in-your-face'. On his solo album Zero Order Phase, it's even more 'in-your-face' than here.


----------



## 7StringedBeast (Jul 29, 2009)

HamBungler said:


> Well, look at it this way. If you're looking for in-your-face heavy rhythm and smooth leads, the Blackjack is the way to go. If you're looking for more of a lead instrument with articulate rhythm, then the Loomis is the way to go. However, I've always found EMGs to have horrible cleans, its possible to get alright ones I'm sure but I've heard the Blackouts have a better clean tone overall. I'd go for the Blackjack myself as I'm a big fan of mahogany's sound, and with the ebony fretboard it won't be too awful dark and will add a bit of punch. They are both quality instruments though, so you can't really go wrong either way.



This.

Another thing that contributes to the Loomis being more suitable for shred is the satin painted neck.

Before buying the ATX I tested the Loomis and the Hellraiser too. The ATX sounds better IMO (more chunky, more organic, less sterile or active-compressed, w/e you wanna call it, and this is best noticed when playing clean....btw I love the clean sound of my ATX in the middle and neck positions). Feel free to ask any questions as I am probably one of the few here that has tested all 3 guitars through the same rig one after another (tested them through a Mesa Road King with flat EQ, fixed volume and variable amounts of gain).


----------



## EliNoPants (Jul 29, 2009)

is the Hellraiser series totally unappealing to you? it's also mahogany/mahogany but with a rosewood board and coil-tapping EMGs, which, if i remember correctly, the 707TW is supposed to basically just be a 7-string version of the 89, which is basically an 85 with the option to coil-tap to the SA pickup, which is what David Gilmour uses, and i dare say his cleans are pretty clear...i know some people are put off by the binding and such, but it's not nearly as obnoxious in person, especially if you don't have stage lights to reflect off of it in an otherwise dark room, and then it just looks like a bright outline of the body


----------



## jacksonplayer (Jul 29, 2009)

The ATX has the features I'm more interested in, but you can't go wrong either way. The Loomis is going to cut through a mix better because of its brighter tone woods, but the ATX is going to have a slightly bigger sound to it.


----------



## Dickicker (Jul 29, 2009)

DUde the blackouts. have the same connecter as the EMGs, depending on what version you get. so you wont have to solder anything! We did it on my friends Kelly. It had emgs and he wanted to try the blackouts so we check which versions before we bought them and BAM!!!! It fit right in dude! SO check that out!


----------



## leonardo7 (Jul 29, 2009)

I have both! The Loomis has awesome tone and especially shines for leads because the Ash just sings and Id swear that EMG 707s were meant to be in Ash. The 707s are awesome in Ash, a perfect match. The 707s sound better in the Loomis than any other guitar Ive had them in. If your a lead player, definitely get the Loomis no doubt about it. But since I like the feel of ebony and especially since I like the huge sound of Mahogany for rhythm playing, Id choose the ATX. Id put what I said to thought and just go with whichever looks better to you because ultimately, they are both extremely awesome rocking beasts.


----------



## WrathOfGirth (Jul 29, 2009)

EliNoPants said:


> is the Hellraiser series totally unappealing to you? it's also mahogany/mahogany but with a rosewood board and coil-tapping EMGs, which, if i remember correctly, the 707TW is supposed to basically just be a 7-string version of the 89, which is basically an 85 with the option to coil-tap to the SA pickup, which is what David Gilmour uses, and i dare say his cleans are pretty clear...i know some people are put off by the binding and such, but it's not nearly as obnoxious in person, especially if you don't have stage lights to reflect off of it in an otherwise dark room, and then it just looks like a bright outline of the body



I had a look at the Hellraiser series and the C-7 was running 707's, that's why I was looking at the two cheaper options. I didn't realise that they were coil tap pickups, but is the coil tap something you'd generally use? (never owned any guitar / pickups with this option.

I'm not a 'shredder' but I do tend to play the majority of the lead sections in bands. I tend to go more for melody rather than ripping peoples faces off, but that's not what I try to concentrate on while writing music.
Take a look at these guys, this is something close to what I write.
Sparks (Ryan Tucker) | MySpace.com

The main reason for me edging towards the Jeff Loomis is because the necks thinner, but is it that much thinner than the ATX?
The neck on my revenger is pretty thick anyway and that hasn't got in the way in the slightest since I have large hands.

Because the lack of shops that actually sell Schecter guitars in Wales, I'm not sure on how far I'm going to have to travel to try these guitars out which is why I need opinions from people. If I do find somewhere what guarentee's that both these guitars are going to be in the shop / city.

Personally, I really don't know whether I want a guitar that'll cut through better, as a sound tech yes I can see that as a great advantage and is swaying me towards the Loomis, by a bigger sound for ATX. One of those what would effect listeners in the most positive way towards your sound?


----------



## leonardo7 (Jul 29, 2009)

The Loomis doesnt really have much mids to it. Its the ash. It has good extreme lows and amazing highs but the mids will need to be up on your amp to cut with the Loomis. By the way, even the stores here in California dont ever carry these in stock for you to go play one first. It really has nothing to do with your location that you cant find a store with one for you to play first. The Hellraiser, however, seems to be in stock at every Guitar Center which is several for every large city area in the US.


----------



## WrathOfGirth (Jul 29, 2009)

Yeah you don't get Guitar Centre in the UK I don't think which is a shame, when I went over to Albuquerque I went into the store, must of spent about 3-4 hours in there trying out different guitars / amp + cab combinations until enough was enough and quietly slipped out not buying anything after using as much equipment as possible haha


----------



## EliNoPants (Jul 29, 2009)

the '09 Hellraisers have the 707TW pickups, the '08 and earlier are just 707s without the coil-tapping option, which, hell, i can't tell you how much of a difference it makes seeing as i still haven't gotten to put mine through an amp yet (i HAD the money to get myself a Mesa until my old roommate bailed and i had to cover all of rent for 2 months, and i'm an idiot who bought a 2nd 7-string before getting a guitar amp of any sort) but i hear that the new Schecter models have slimmer necks this year too, although i never tried the older ones, so i can't compare


----------



## DarkKnight369 (Sep 2, 2009)

I have both the Loomis and ATX. I love both of them. When I first got both, I barely played the Loomis because the ATX sounded so much better. Once I threw 2 neck blackout p'ups in the Loomis, it was a monster and became equal tonally to the ATX. They have slightly different tones now, the Loomis I consider to have more of DJENT quality to it due to the wood type and such, where the ATX is more death core. Similar though.

Also, I have some videos with both guitars, and the Loomis pre and post blackouts....

http://www.youtube.com/user/DarkKnight369

Make sure you watch the Loomis with blackouts part 2 if you watch part 1. The latop mic angle in part 1 made the tone sound like utter shit.


----------



## GuitarJay82 (Sep 15, 2009)

I own 2 Loomis with FR one that is stock which I am selling and the other I did the emg 18v mod on and I am blown away by the sound. I dont know if you can do this to black outs or not, I am going to try it soon and post about it. But this mod made a huge difference in sound over stock. That is the biggest difference between theese 2 guitars in my opinion you can get the sound you want if you know what your doing with an eq regardless of wood. I am very happy with my Loomis and am allways able to get the exact sound I am looking for from lead to rhythem. I own another guitar with black outs and I have nothing bad to say about it, I actually liked them better prior to the mod I just did. I say go for the Loomis but thats just my 2 cents.


----------



## sixtonoize (Sep 15, 2009)

I own a Loomis, and I've tried out a few ATXs.

I expected the two guitars to have roughly the same feel, but in my experience, they do not.
The ATXs I've tried have a really hard edge on the fretboard that digs into my thumb (I wrap it over the top of the FB to mute), whereas my Loomis is just really comfortable all around. I also like the satin neck a lot more than the painted neck. I'm not a shredder, but the Loomis just works better for me.

YMMV.


----------



## Sedativeman (Jan 24, 2011)

I dunno if you're still looking to buy, or if you've perhaps changed your mind, but I'm selling a Jeff Loomis 7 String but it's with the Floyd Rose Tremolo. It's barely been touched since I've owned it, and I bought it brand new. Great guitar. I'm selling it for 800$ obo.


----------

