# Esp Ltd MH-400 refinish



## tssb (Jul 10, 2013)

I've been wanting to refinish (naturalise) my MH-400 for some time now. Finally found some time to do it, plus lurking around here was a big motivator 

Started off with some research, found some good examples here (MH-250) and here (MH-1000).

Learning from what happened with the ascender's MH-250,




i decided to try and preserve the quilted maple top, as i had a rather nice piece.




So sanding the front was out of the question. Luckily my dad runs a furniture factory, so he managed to dig up some old lacquer stripper.




It's about 4 years old, so it's lost some of its strength, which is why i had to do multiple coats of it. 
For those not familiar with this type of stripper, it attacks lacquers and dyes but leaves the wood intact. You apply it, leave it on a couple of hours then scoop it off.

Tried it out on a piece of parquet :



, worked well so i moved on to the back of the guitar.






The guitar looked like it had grown some new lifeforms on it.





When cleaned, this is what you're left with :









Recorded a sample of the process for those interested in it :
www.youtube.com/embed/7EFg9jJMwcU


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## tssb (Jul 10, 2013)

back is down to the sealer which will need to be sanded down, so i moved on to the front. 
The pics :
The stripper applied, it's a rather thick gel.
Result after removing the first coat of gel.
The finish on the sides came off a lot easier than the front or back.


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## tssb (Jul 10, 2013)

just applied a second coat on the front & sides, leaving it overnight.

Made a rather curious discovery in the process though : the wood was actually dyed green and the lacquer was blue. I suspect this is what gave the reflections their mild pearlescent effect.


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## tssb (Jul 10, 2013)

pickups arrived as well.

Went for DiMarzio Gravity Storm for the bridge, rather curious how they sound. As for the neck, i'm creating a frankenstein from a telecaster single coil and a hot rails single coil-sized humbucker. I've done this in my vintage japanese Aria Pro II which i bought earlier this year while in Tokyo (good story if anyone's interested) and it seems to work great. 

This will essentially give me a humbucker in the bridge (with a coil tap on the volume knob) + a single coil as well as a mini-humbucker in the neck.


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## Daf57 (Jul 11, 2013)

This is a great project! I really wish I had another one to refinish, it's hard work with the sanding but at the same time so fun.  Looks like you are off to good start. Now just need to apply the elbow grease.  In for the updates - good luck!


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## Jed (Jul 11, 2013)

Thanks for this, I have the same model guitar and would like to do the same once I get some spare time. The only difference is I would probably remove the quilt top.


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

Jed said:


> Thanks for this, I have the same model guitar and would like to do the same once I get some spare time. The only difference is I would probably remove the quilt top.



I thought about this too, but the mahogany underneath hasn't got a crazy or good-enough looking fibre for the front imho. 

Anyway, been away for some time, so i couldn't work on the guitar, but i'm back now and have been working on it for the past 3 days.

Here's the process :


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

After i removed the laquer and most of the primer with the stripping agent, i started sanding the guitar down. 

On the back : at first, i tried 120 grit, was getting nowhere so i moved back to 80. The primer layer is really goddamn thick. 



I also decided to reshape the back of the cutaway, for easier fret acces. 


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This is so incredibly comfortable now 


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On the front : tried with 120, was taking ages so i switched to a better sandpaper, 150 grit. Tip here, paper-backed sandpaper is crap, look for fibre (linen,cloth,etc) backed sandpaper, works 3 times as quick and you use about 4 times less sandpaper, so worth its price.











As for the inside of the cutaways, tried with a round sanding accesory for drills, didn't work out. Go to slowly and you get nowhere, rev the drill up and it leaves burn marks on the wood. Plus, the size only fit in one of the cutaways and was too big for the other one, it ate out of my fretboard binding. Luckily, i spotted it in time, so the damage was less than 1mm.




All in all, sanding took about 3-4 hours, as I had to be very careful on the front. I did pierce through the veneer in a few spots, but very little, barely noticeable. Turns out its 0.6mm veneer deep-stained, so no matter how much you sand it, strip it or try anything else, the colour will never fully come out. So i was left with a bit of green in the veneers' dark fibre areas.


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

Finished sanding





Prepping the neck joint for staining, as i don't want the neck stained at all.




Staining agent is water-based, applied with a cloth. Colour is honey, despite is tar-black appearance before application.






 

 
The result after staining.



Dries very quickly, 5 minutes in it already looks like this :


 

Leaving it to dry for an hour gets you here :


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

And now for the first layer of oil, which gets left to dry overnight. This one is not water-based thought, its a petroleum-based product. I chose an almost transparent oil with a matte finish. The white in the photos is the matting agent inside the oil, which evaporates back to clear in 3 minutes.


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## blanco (Aug 24, 2013)

I actually really like the colour showing through when it was sanded back and white, looks sort of ghost like.


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

After the oil dried overnight, I sanded a smidge with 220 grit then I applied a layer of patina, which is darker than the staining but less potent overall, as it applied and 2 minutes later wiped with a clean cloth. This patina layer will not selectively be absorbed, so it will prefer the darker areas of the fibre, getting rid of the green and turning it more into brown-grey. It also colours the bright areas, but only slightly, turning the yellow-gold into more of an amber colour.

After this came second round of oil, much thicker this time.
TIP : this type of oil does NOT like to be applied with a brush. The brush traps tiny particles of air, leaving directional marks on the sub-surface of the oil.
I had to re-apply a bit of it and spread it evenly using a cloth after 5 minutes. The clue that something wasn't working was that the matting agent was not evaporating, leaving the oil whiteish.

This got left to dry overnight as well.

In the morning, the surface looked like plastic and was sticky. Also, those nice reflections had vanished.



Also note the white insertions in the grain. That's the matting agent that didn't evaporate.




So it got a proper sanding, 220 grit again.
Sanded down about 80% of this last oil layer, leaving just enough so i don't sand off the patina.


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

blanco said:


> I actually really like the colour showing through when it was sanded back and white, looks sort of ghost like.



Nice catch, I liked it too, unfortunately though, there was no way of keeping it looking that way. I tested to see what would happen if i just sealed and the green was showing through quite badly, which is why i decided to stain it.


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

After sanding down that last oil layer, i decided to do another layer of patina on the front, to bring it closer to amber, rather than yellow. It would also remove more of the green hues in the fibre.

Back was nice, so no patina there, which gave me the idea to add in a contour line, just like the original finish.

Same patina liquid as before, but this time diluted 50% with water (its water-based, so it works).

Got it taped up




Then applied the patina on the front and side contour line.


 



And finished up by applying again on the contour line.




The result, viewed from the back :


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## AwDeOh (Aug 24, 2013)

You've done a fantastic job here man, love that stain! You've also laid out a really great how-to for those who want to do similar. +repped


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## User Name (Aug 24, 2013)

freaking sexy


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

AwDeOh said:


> You've done a fantastic job here man, love that stain! You've also laid out a really great how-to for those who want to do similar. +repped





User Name said:


> freaking sexy



Thanks, really appreciate it


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

Now, the final oil layer was added. This time, it was a thin layer, applied by cloth (lesson learned )





The result. Those nice reflections are back, the surface is nice and smooth, but not glassy or sticky.




I must say, I really love this contour line i added, it's like a nod to the original finish 





Tomorrow, the cavities get cleaned up and spray-painted black. Hopefully, I also get the time to put the hardware back in. And take some proper pictures, not with a phone.


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## tssb (Aug 24, 2013)

Took all these sequential photos while working on the guitar, so thought what the hell, GIFs ! 

First staining.


 

First layer of oil.




First layer of patina : cool reflections. Here : stain + oil + patina. before any of the 2nd oil layer fiasco.


 

Second layer of patina. So, stain,oil,sanded,patina,oil,sanded,patina.




I recommend downloading them and watching them at a higher speed than this slow-mo embedded version.


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## Wrecklyss (Aug 24, 2013)

you've madw an LTD look as nice as many Suhrs or Tom Andersons i've seen. Very nice


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## BlackMastodon (Aug 25, 2013)

That looks fantastic dude!


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## tssb (Aug 25, 2013)

So, only got round to cleaning up the cavities and spraypainting them black. Matte of course 



 

 

 

I also sprayed any other bits and bobs that weren't black : floyd block, battery holder, some bolts, etc. 


 

 

Also on the list was a telecaster pickup (looks awesome!). This will go next to a black hot rails pickup, together making a frankenstein of a neck pickup. 



 

Experimented with a spare pickup i had : tried to paint the poles black, turns out they're too shiny and it comes right off. So my plan of painting the poles of my DiMarzio Gravity Storm I have for the bridge is now defunct.



 



Tomorrow morning is final buffing and installing the hardware....and cleaning the fretboard apparently. 


 

With some luck, I'll be playing it tomorrow night.


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## UV7BK4LIFE (Aug 25, 2013)

Wow man, I wouldn't want to go through all this trouble with a guitar that already has a nice top, but I have to admint this looks a lot better!


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## tssb (Aug 25, 2013)

UV7BK4LIFE said:


> Wow man, I wouldn't want to go through all this trouble with a guitar that already has a nice top, but I have to admint this looks a lot better!



It's my favourite guitar, it had a nasty ding on the body but mainly... i got really bored of the shiny dark blue finish. The back of the neck looked really unnatural, and that natural wood binding contour they left always fascinated me. 

I've been wanting to do this for about 2 years now, but finally getting rid of the EMGs was what kickstarted it 

Before & After


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## SeductionS (Aug 25, 2013)

Probably the best refinish I've ever seen on a veneer (/film) topped guitar!
Congrats, it looks freakin' amazing


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## tssb (Aug 25, 2013)

SeductionS said:


> Probably the best refinish I've ever seen on a veneer (/film) topped guitar!
> Congrats, it looks freakin' amazing



Thanks man


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## BlackMastodon (Aug 25, 2013)

That looks incredible, really good job keeping the original veneer together, too!


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## MikeyLawless (Aug 25, 2013)

Wow awesome job on that. Veneers can be a pain to keep on at times.


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## Ironbird (Aug 25, 2013)

MikeyLawless said:


> Wow awesome job on that. Veneers can be a pain to keep on at times.


Tell me about it!

When I got my flame veneer Jackson WRMG, the veneer had already chipped off in some areas. Sadly, this will not be salvageable so I'm going for a solid colour refinish sometime in the future.

Anyway, I digress. This is a splendid project!


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## tssb (Aug 26, 2013)

Thanks guys 

Keeping the venner on was the main challenge. I have to say, without that paint stripper i probably would have gone through it.

Didn't really get much time with it today, i've cleaned the fretboard roughly, as i will give a deep clean, stain & fret polish in the coming days.

Right now i'm in the process of putting it back together and i'm hitting bumps in the road with the frankenstein pickup, it obviously doesn't fit in the cavity, so i'll have to sand some edges off the pickup support. 
Also, does anyone have a good guide to direct-mounting pickups ? I don't want to mess with foam.

Progress :





What do you guys think of the finish on that Telecaster pickup ? 




Supervising all this is Rafaello


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## Pikka Bird (Aug 26, 2013)

Something is oddly attractive about that bastard pickup, in an Orkish/industrial-yet-somehow-still-elegant way. And this whole thread is a pretty good read too. I've never seen an LTD stripped without major damage to the veneer, so that's very good work. 

Are you going to leave the screw holes for the pickup rings as they are now?


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## craigny (Aug 26, 2013)

Awesome job!! Can't wait to see a fully assembled pic!


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## rikomaru (Aug 28, 2013)

dig


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## iRaiseTheDead (Aug 28, 2013)

Big props man!


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## sandalhat (Aug 28, 2013)

Very nice work. The fact that you couldn't get all of the old dye out really worked in your favor to use as a grain enhancement. It looks fantastic!


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## tssb (Aug 29, 2013)

Pikka Bird said:


> Something is oddly attractive about that bastard pickup, in an Orkish/industrial-yet-somehow-still-elegant way. And this whole thread is a pretty good read too. I've never seen an LTD stripped without major damage to the veneer, so that's very good work.



Thanks 



Pikka Bird said:


> Are you going to leave the screw holes for the pickup rings as they are now?



Unfortunately, i completely forgot about those damn little holes before i started sanding, otherwise i would have filled them in. So now it looks like they're staying that way, as I've already put all the oil layers on...unless you have a suggestion ?


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## tssb (Aug 31, 2013)

So, today I finally got round to refinishing the fretboard as well. 



The other guitar will feature shortly in a NGD 

Pickup-making/chopping station




Nothing too drastic :


clean fretboard thoroughly with paint thinner
30 mins dry







Someone was a bit skeptical at this point.
quick sanding with 220 grit
fret polish with steel wool
fretboard sanding with steel wool
clean with dry cloth (not wet!)
then


STAIN with a wenge wood stain






dry for 1 hour






after which


rub with finishing oil (slightly glossy)
leave to dry overnight






In the meantime, I decided to add some gloss to the front as well. The matte oil is reaaaaly matte, so it washed out some of those nice maple reflections. So :


quick sand with steel wood (fine grade)
add another layer of oil, glossy this time. worked very well.
leave to dry overnight


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## tssb (Sep 7, 2013)

quick progress update :

been giving myself headaches with that frankenstein pickup, cut the copper wires on both the rails and the single coil, by accident, damn clumsy hands. Had the pickups re-soldered at an electronics specialist, my soldering iron is way too crappy for those tiny copper wires.

Put the pickup together, insulated everything...just to find it doesn't fit. The telecaster pickup is too high for the neck position, it ends up being .05mm higher than the 24th fret. 
So, i replaced the telecaster pickup with a simple single coil, it now fits. 

Got things wired (not without incidents here either), just have to connect the rails pickup and give the guitar a polish. Should be able to put up a NGD tomorrow.


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## Neilzord (Sep 11, 2013)

Look forward to seeing your NGD! Some nice work on that re-finish. Much nicer as a natural finish!


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## tssb (Sep 12, 2013)

The progress shots of the wiring. 




And the wiring itself, nothing revolutionary, but the wires are colour-coded


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## tssb (Sep 12, 2013)

So, this refinish if finally complete.
I've posted a NGD, see it here.
Thank you all for the kind words & support, here's some teaser images, more in the NGD post.

Pics first :











The neck heel is the most comfortable on any guitar i have ever played. Those hours spent sculpting it were well spent.





































Mr Obi is slightly hipnotised by all the flamed maple reflections.


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## User Name (Sep 12, 2013)

dude... that looks sexy


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## capoeiraesp (Sep 13, 2013)

Dude, well done. You've added a whole level of class to an otherwise average guitar.


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## UV7BK4LIFE (Sep 13, 2013)

Supercool!


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## _RH_ (Nov 30, 2013)

Very cool, glad I found this thread. I have a 400NT that I'm considering altering. For simplicity I was hoping to just do the top. Like you, I'm leery to remove the quilt. Do you think with the lacquer stripper it would be possible to preserve the quilt but tape off the sides and get a nice clean line?

How about just sanding and applying a new veneer? Did you stumble across anyone who did that on an ESP?


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## tssb (Nov 30, 2013)

_RH_ said:


> Do you think with the lacquer stripper it would be possible to preserve the quilt but tape off the sides and get a nice clean line?


Yes, but keep in mind this stuff will seep slightly under any tape, as it gets it wet. So my suggestion is to tape off the side, then to add another tape that goes on the corner, covering the top slightly. It will be easier to sand off the small part you taped than to correct any damage the stripper does.
Also, the stripper helped a lot in that it removed the outer layers of the laquer, there was still a layer of sealer that had to be sanded by hand. Do *not* under any circumstances use a power tool on that veneer, or you can kiss it goodbye. Even with all the care i took, there 2 small spots where i went through the veneer, namely on the raised areas of the horns, so just take your time with the sanding, it will take a good number of hours.



_RH_ said:


> How about just sanding and applying a new veneer? Did you stumble across anyone who did that on an ESP?


I never stumbled on anyone applying a new veneer top on an LTD/ESP, but there are plenty of examples on the board of people doing that to other guitars. If i had ruined my veneer, that's what i would have done.

Let me know if i can help further.


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## FIXXXER (Nov 30, 2013)

great job man, it looks so much better now!


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## Stijnson (Dec 3, 2013)

Beautiful work man, wish I had your skills to refinish my own guitar! SS.org has really gotten me into natural looking guitars.

Yours looks much nicer now!


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## tssb (Dec 3, 2013)

FIXXXER said:


> great job man, it looks so much better now!



thanks 



Stijnson said:


> Beautiful work man, wish I had your skills to refinish my own guitar! SS.org has really gotten me into natural looking guitars.!



Cheers and it's the almost the same for me. Had a vague gas for natural finishes and SS.org was the tipping point for me. Once i found this site, the fate of my blue-finished LTD was sealed : naturalising it was the only option.


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## Stijnson (Dec 3, 2013)

Haha couldn't agree more! Glad you understand how I feel about my metallic grey soloist then! Completely painted and archtop to make it more dificult to strip aswell.


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## tssb (Dec 4, 2013)

Stijnson said:


> Completely painted and archtop to make it more dificult to strip aswell.



For the archtop, the laquer stripper should work like magic, especially since Jackson guitars have nowhere near the amount of sealer as LTD. No reasons to back away now


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## Stijnson (Dec 4, 2013)

Haha thanks for the tip man! Ill seriously consider it, and if i go through with it, i'll let you know!


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## tssb (Dec 4, 2013)

Stijnson said:


> Haha thanks for the tip man! Ill seriously consider it, and if i go through with it, i'll let you know!



Looking forward to it, though i might beat you to it.
My dad has a Jackson Dinky in red that he no longer plays, so when I'm visiting over Christmas, I think that guitar is getting a new finish  I'll also let you know


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## DredFul (Dec 5, 2013)

You should have left the moldyish finish on and just spray some lacquer over that 

Anyway that's awesome choice of colour! The quilt got the look it deserved.


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## Dalcan (Dec 5, 2013)

If I were to just sand and take off the gloss of a guitar, how would I protect the paint?


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## tssb (Dec 5, 2013)

thisisdoodoobaby said:


> If I were to just sand and take off the gloss of a guitar, how would I protect the paint?



Very much depends on the specific nature of the finish. The gloss on mine was coloured for example. The veneer was green and the lacquer blue, which is what gave it the final colour.

I guess you just have to be careful to only sand through the gloss, there's no other way.

Why do you want to take the gloss off ? Even if you were to sand it, you wouldn't be able to keep the colour and get a nice satin finish.


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## Dalcan (Dec 5, 2013)

tssb said:


> Very much depends on the specific nature of the finish. The gloss on mine was coloured for example. The veneer was green and the lacquer blue, which is what gave it the final colour.
> 
> I guess you just have to be careful to only sand through the gloss, there's no other way.
> 
> Why do you want to take the gloss off ? Even if you were to sand it, you wouldn't be able to keep the colour and get a nice satin finish.




There are some scratches that I want to get rid of that happened during shipping. Mine is a black guitar so I'm guessing it's just a clear gloss finish.


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## tssb (Dec 5, 2013)

I think you can repair those without sanding the whole gloss off, provided they're not deeper than the gloss layer. Light steel wool sand of the area and application of some clear gloss might do the trick, but I can't say for sure, I've never worked with gloss.


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