# No Desire to Drive



## SenorDingDong (Jan 18, 2013)

I thought I'd get some of you guys' opinions on this since you're all such upstanding gentlemen. 

I have no desire to drive.

I'm a month away from turning 21, I have my license, I'm a great driver (according to anyone whose car I've driven) and yet I just have no desire to buy a car or drive. I prefer walking, biking or taking the bus. I'm not afraid to get in an accident, though I can't say I'd ever like to try getting in one purposefully, but I just have no urge to own a vehicle. 

Let me put this in perspective for you all--and please, don't take offense: I think fast sports cars and big huge monster cars are stupid. I think luxury cars are stupid. 
I think cars, in general, are stupid. 
I understand I am the minority in this opinion, and it definitely is an opinion--I by no means think car owners are stupid. I just don't really have an urge to own a car. I thought maybe I'd change, and I almost bought a car on a few occasions, but what it always came down to was that I was buying I car because I felt I had to in order to be normal.


Please keep the thread serious. I'm honestly curious whether or not anyone else feels the same, i.e. has no desire to own a vehicle.


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## HaMMerHeD (Jan 18, 2013)

If I could get by without one, I would.


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## Estilo (Jan 18, 2013)

But what is it about cars or owning them or using them that you find stupid?


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## Jakke (Jan 18, 2013)

I don't own a car, and haven't driven one in 6 months, yet I do have licence. It's a great thing "to have", but it's not mandatory to drive, or even like cars just because you have licence.


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## Mexi (Jan 18, 2013)

I agree with you. I'd rather kick back on a bus and listen to music or read than have to worry about every other terrible driver that insists on doing their make up/texting while driving. If public transportation were better (at least around here) you'd probably see a lot more people leaving their cars at home.

reminds me of what the Mayor of Bogota said some time back: "_A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation_"


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## troyguitar (Jan 18, 2013)

Cars are necessary in this country unless you live in NYC or have piles of extra money to pay people to drive you all over.

My commute is 10 minutes round trip driving, about 30 minutes round trip biking, and 100 minutes round trip walking. So I save on the order of 2 hours per week over biking. Add the fact that I go home for lunch and it's more like 4 hours per week. 4 hours per week is enough time to pay for my car payment...


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## mcleanab (Jan 18, 2013)

I've been without a vehicle since the beginning of 2010 when I crashed my lovely 2004 Nissan Frontier - I'm convinced it saved my life and that of my dog...

Decided to just use public transportation and walk (we're in Boston) and it's great. If we do need to drive, we rent Zipcars (by the hour or day).

I'd do it forever if I could...

But, I'm on the national job search so by summer, I'll hopefully be living somewhere else that more than likely won't have a good public transportation system... which means we have to buy a car....


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## AxeHappy (Jan 18, 2013)

Public transits sucks in London, and I have gear to haul to shows and rehearsals and whatnot. So I own a car. Also makes visiting family and friends out of town and going to concerts much easier. 

I'm also a professional driver (BZ license which means I can drive everything but transports, motorcycles and heavy equipment) so I drive quite a bit. 

And if you aren't scared about driving or getting in an accident you merely haven't driven enough or aren't really a very good driver. The amount of shit I see everyday...fuck. I'm surprised the already staggering amount of deaths caused by auto accidents annually aren't even higher.


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## Xaios (Jan 18, 2013)

AxeHappy said:


> Public transits sucks in London, and I have gear to haul to shows and rehearsals and whatnot. So I own a car. Also makes visiting family and friends out of town and going to concerts much easier.



This is also pretty much exactly it for me as well. For a long time, I had no compulsion to get a driver's license. However, there came a point when I simply had to have one, because I needed to haul around gear. The public transportation is also terrible where I live. When I was going to college and taking the bus before I got my license, my choice most days was either to be an hour early or two hours late.


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## ncfiala (Jan 18, 2013)

I also have no interest in cars aside from their functionality. If you can get by without one then you should. It will save you a lot of money.

I absolutely hate driving but I live too far out in the country to not have a car. And I hate living in town.


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## tedtan (Jan 18, 2013)

Hmmmmm...


On the one hand, cars are a pretty expensive item to own and maintain propely, so you are not necessarily missing out on anything.

On the other hand, public transportation absolutely sucks or is non-existant in much of the US, so you pretty much need one just to get from point A to point B in a reasonably timely manner in most cities here.


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## bannyd (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm someone who LOVES to drive -- I drive 35 miles to work and 35 miles back every day -- i do own a car that I've modded and that is quite fast (285hp in a turbo 4 cyl) is it necessary to have something fast? no... not really
is it nice to have that power when someone is merging onto you and you need to get out of the way fast - or if someone is going slow and you need to pass -- then, yes - it comes in handy quite often 

but aside from that, I am also an adrenaline junkie -- I love the whole "living on the edge" thing -- between snowboarding, taking the car to the track, skating, and other things that involve quick reaction and motor skills, I NEED to feel my heart racing or else I feel like I'm not living. 

No, I don't put others in danger when I drive - so lets not assume things like that -- I'm very careful on the road.


Another reason why I need a car is simply because I live in the woods -- there's no public transport by me - and if I were to use it, I'd have to drive there first anyway! 

okay i'm done rambling 

Oh and one more thing - I've met a TON of people who are now good friends who share the same love of cars on forums such as this (but for cars obviously) 

and we're not all assholes... 

i am... 
but not all of us


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## SenorDingDong (Jan 18, 2013)

Estilo said:


> But what is it about cars or owning them or using them that you find stupid?



Stupid was simply the easiest word to describe my feelings, but to me, spending 10k or more on something because it looks nice, or moves fast, or will make people notice me, is stupid. I don't find owning cars stupid, I find the idea of a car being necessary stupid. 

I guess I look at it this way: I make more than enough to buy a fairly nice car, and keep it running. But then I look at the expenses of insurance, and gas, and maintenance, and I see all the other ways I could (and do) use those thousands of dollars and I find myself wondering what the point of it is. I get from point A to point B whenever I have to, either by my own two legs or by the bus or hitching a ride with a friend and giving them a fiver. I rarely need to get very far, and when I do, I find public transportation to be easier and far cheaper.


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## Xaios (Jan 18, 2013)

SenorDingDong said:


> I find myself wondering what the point of it is.


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## Fat-Elf (Jan 18, 2013)

Even though I got my driving license yesterday I neither ain't so keen on cars. For me it's mostly for environmental reasons. I do love the idea to be able to use something such cars to travel very fastly and nicely from place to another but I will try to walk/bike as often as I can.


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## SenorDingDong (Jan 18, 2013)

Xaios said:


>



See that's the thing--I don't associate car ownership with freedom. It's the argument people always make, however I go to New York and Boston and other states frequently. I go to the store when I need to, I go on dates, I do everything I want and accomplish everything I need but I simply do not own a car. I'm as free as anyone else is to do the things I want.


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## tedtan (Jan 18, 2013)

SenorDingDong said:


> Stupid was simply the easiest word to describe my feelings, but to me, spending 10k or more on something because it looks nice, or moves fast, or will make people notice me, is stupid. I don't find owning cars stupid, I find the idea of a car being necessary stupid.


 
Are you taking issue with the status symbol aspect of owning a car or the actual functional issue with cars as a mode of transportation?

Also, I assume you are young, unmarried, without children and likely living in a "downtown" area. How far off am I?



SenorDingDong said:


> I get from point A to point B whenever I have to, either by my own two legs or by the bus or hitching a ride with a friend and giving them a fiver. I rarely need to get very far, and when I do, I find public transportation to be easier and far cheaper.


 
I live in Houston, which is over 30 miles across within the city limits, and cose to 80 miles across if you are talking about the greater Houston area. Walking across town takes a pretty good while, and its done in 100F degree weather with almost 100% humidity. Unless you are staying within your neighborhood, walking is pretty much a non option here. And public transportation does not cover the entire city, so its not always an option. So living here, a car pretty much is a necessity unless you only stay in your neighborhood.


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## Jakke (Jan 18, 2013)

I did find it very comfortable that when I played in my first band, I could just take my parents' car to rehersals. Now that I live in a bigger city where everyone rides their bike instead, I've not found it necessary to get a car.


*EDIT* On further reflection, it wasn't my first band, but it was an early one.


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## avenger (Jan 18, 2013)

Well since you work from home its not as big a deal to you. When you have to start commuting across cities or multiple cities to your job each day... well then it starts to become another story.

Just my 2 cents.


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## poopyalligator (Jan 18, 2013)

I personally have been driving since I was 15 years old (now 28). I have never been in any accidents, and I love driving. I don't know what the public transportation is like where you live, but over here in Albuquerque it sucks pretty bad. I honestly couldn't imagine living here and going about my daily tasks without owning a car. Going from one side of town to the other without a car would nearly be impossible with buses. You would have to wait forever for connecting buses, and by bike you would have a very cold, or very hot and overwhelming ride. As far as having a fast car or a luxury car goes, it is no different than wanting a really well made guitar. You want quality and you want certain specs that speak to you, and don't mind paying more money for it. I drive a 72k Cadillac cts-v coupe, and I sure as hell don't need a 556HP car with a lush interior, but I love driving it. It isn't like I am a douchebag who races all of the time, it is just nice to have the extra power. I myself own two cars, and to me that makes that a lot of sense.


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## Chickenhawk (Jan 18, 2013)

poopyalligator said:


> I personally have been driving since I was 15 years old (now 28). I have never been in any accidents, and I love driving. I don't know what the public transportation is like where you live, but over here in Albuquerque it sucks pretty bad. I honestly couldn't imagine living here and going about my daily tasks without owning a car. Going from one side of town to the other without a car would nearly be impossible with buses. You would have to wait forever for connecting buses, and by bike you would have a very cold, or very hot and overwhelming ride. As far as having a fast car or a luxury car goes, it is no different than wanting a really well made guitar. You want quality and you want certain specs that speak to you, and don't mind paying more money for it. I drive a 72k Cadillac cts-v coupe, and I sure as hell don't need a 556HP car with a lush interior, but I love driving it. It isn't like I am a douchebag who races all of the time, it is just nice to have the extra power. I myself own two cars, and to me that makes that a lot of sense.



Echo.

My views on the subject are vastly different from the OPs simply because of my choice of locality (I immensely prefer rural locations).

I live in a town of 5000, which has no public transportation. The grocery store is just a couple blocks away, across a highway. If I need just a few items, I walk. The gas station/convenience store is a block away. Again, if I don't need more than a couple bags of stuff, I just walk. Really, if it's less than a mile away, and I'm not in a hurry...I walk.

But, the closest city is 15 miles away, and my last job was an hour away. Not possible to get around without my own vehicle. There was another guy that would ride with me to work most days, and split fuel costs, or sometimes he would drive, if the weather wasn't bad.

There is a public transit system in the nearest city (St Joseph, ~88,000 population), but it's garbage. Just not possible for a lot of the city to rely on it for everyday commutes, unless you're willing to wait 15-20 minutes for connections and arrive every day annoyingly early or late. The buses run on time, and are efficient in what they do...but they don't transport people to work every morning. 

I own a $35,000 diesel truck, and a $3000 POS Jeep. One works it's ass off, the other (once it's fixed) is the fuel saver. Around here, you drive. Plain and simple. A lot of people get by with cheaper (sub-$3k, fwd gas saver) cars most of the year, and get by just fine. Some folks choose the more reliable route (like I did with my truck) so they CAN get to work during a blizzard (like I have).

I guess if I lived in a much bigger city, I'd use public trans more often, but I'll never live in a big city, so I'll always drive


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## JeffFromMtl (Jan 18, 2013)

I owned a car for 7 years, and felt that it was more of a burden than anything. I finally sold my car in November, and I've been better off in every way because of it. Simply owning a car (license, registration, insurance) cost me about 2 months of rent every year. It didn't make sense to me to be spending that much money to own a car that I had bought outright to begin with. On top that, consider that gas is around $1.30/litre in Montreal and I'm spending about $70 per tank. If I'm running on 3 tanks of gas per month, that's $210/month, half of my monthly rent. All in all, it was costing me about $3,000/year to drive a car that I had paid off 7 years ago.

So I bought a bike for $200 instead back in July and I've been riding since, making my transition to not owning a car seamless. By the time I sold the car, I was getting in it to move it across the street during no-parking hours more often than to actually even go anywhere in it. My bike was cheaper than a month of gas, doesn't cost anything to insure or be licensed to ride, doesn't pollute and keeps me in great shape all while simply getting where I need to go, and I now have a whole new handful of bike maintenance skills. During the really shitty winter months, I take public transit, which is just over half the price of a tank of gas for the entire month. It just makes more sense for me to not own a car.


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## ST3MOCON (Jan 18, 2013)

Do you like Lamborghini Diablos?


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## WhiteWalls (Jan 18, 2013)

Here in northern italy it's simply impossible to do anything without a car. I live in a small city (25k pop.) where there's no urban bus system, and I would need to walk for more than a kilometer just to get groceries.

My daily commute to university (in a bigger city 25km away from mine) takes 20 minutes by car. If I choose to go by bus, it takes over an hour, I have to walk for more than a Km to get home from the bus stop, AND it's more expensive 

I am a big bike enthusiast and I would love to use it all the time, but contrary to what most people associate italy with (sun, beaches etc), winters are very cold here so I can only use the bike for 7-8 months, not only because of the temperature but also due to the risk of getting seriously injuried by ice/snow on the road.

Edit for the guy above:
I see supercars on a daily basis, as I live near Lamborghini, Maserati and Ferrari headquarters. The problem is when they test their 6 metres wide cars on 2 metres wide country roads, and I have to put two wheels in a ditch just to avoid a lethal collision


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## bhakan (Jan 18, 2013)

If you don't need a car to get where you need to go, then why drive? 

As far as fast cars and luxury cars and stuff, I live in the suburbs, so I have to drive to get everywhere. public transportation is pretty much nonexistent and walking/biking is dangerous due to lack of bike lanes. I like (and own) muscle cars, because I have to drive everyday, so I would rather make my daily commute fun. Same would go for luxury cars or big trucks. If you have to drive a lot, why not enjoy it?


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## Scar Symmetry (Jan 18, 2013)




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## tacotiklah (Jan 18, 2013)

Local public bus is atrocious here so pretty much if you don't have a car, your life will suck. Would be nice if I could just bike everywhere, but this isn't exactly a tiny city either. Perhaps if I were in better shape I'd say fuck it and bike anyways, but I've become fond of driving for the most part. I agree that biking more often is a good thing however.


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## Overtone (Jan 18, 2013)

I prefer living places where you can easily get through a week without needing to do much/any driving, and I don't care about having any kind of status/performance from my car other than it not being a piece of shit and not having any mechanical issues, but that's where the similarities stop. I kinda get you, though, it's just that things like driving on a nice day with the windows down and some music make me a very happy guy. But I do remember hitting this point a few years ago thinking "OK man, time to start looking at new cars..." and soon after being ashamed of myself for even thinking that was a good improvement to my life. So I kept the original car and worked on getting home studio things together since that actually means something to me


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## Metal_Webb (Jan 18, 2013)

My owning of a car is a necessity. I live a 40 minute drive from Newcastle. If I want to get there it's an hour bus ride then if I want to get anywhere around the city it's potentially another 2 hours of dicking about with public transport. Heaven help me if I need to get down to Sydney; 3 hour drive from my place.


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## ZeroS1gnol (Jan 18, 2013)

OP, I wish there'd be more people like you. 

I don't hate cars. I drive every now and then, but I just can't stand how a large amount of people just don't give a shit and drive when it's unnecessary.


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## possumkiller (Jan 18, 2013)

I lived in Europe for a year with no car and it was great. 

I've lived in America the other years of my life and it is near impossible to live without a car. Unfortunately there are no horse lanes or I would just get a horse. I don't need a horse license, horse insurance, horse registration. All you have to do is fill it up with feed and keep it healthy. Although it would help if you aren't scared shitless of giant animals like I am lol. When I was 5 I loved riding horses. The last time I rode a horse, all I could think about was being thrown off and trampled to death. 

Are there any electric motorcycles? Everyone is all on about electric and hybrid cars but what about motorcycles?


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## Tommy (Jan 18, 2013)

I'm the same way. I just turned 21 a couple of days ago and still have never owned a car. There have been a couple of times when I almost did buy one but i never did. I don't see the point when I can walk or bike to where ever i want to go. Also, I don't have to spend money on the expenses of owning a car.


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## GuitaristOfHell (Jan 18, 2013)

I just bike everywhere.


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## MFB (Jan 18, 2013)

For me, I seem to have an insufferable guilt complex so asking for things like a ride was simply out of the question. If I had had my way, I would've been driving at 14 instead of 16 but apparently _someone*_ felt differently about that. I hated asking my mom to not only drive me but also my friends to the mall on Fridays and even being picked up from school felt like a chore the few times it actually happened/was necessary. Then when I had the option to drive, I took it and said, "OK, well now I can get to a job which allows me to have money, and with that money I can go other places and do things" so the car allowed me lots of freedom.

My hometown, Haverhill, is as the name implies - full of HILLS. And given the New England regions reputation for steady weather, it was tough to say "Yeah, I can walk to __________" or "I'll just take my bike to _________" because you weren't sure what you needed if the weather suddenly changed either from sun to rain, rain to sun, extremely humid to cool and overcast, etc... But with a car you didn't need to worry about the elements. Not to mention the mongoloids that take the public transportation are the very ones that I would see at my work and I came to pride myself on spending as little time seeing them or letting them acknowledge my existence; nor did they go anywhere I really needed them to.

* The someone is the state of Massachusetts


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## pink freud (Jan 18, 2013)

Driving+not fun=does not compute.


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## thraxil (Jan 18, 2013)

It's a big part of why I live in NYC. I find driving tedious and just never enjoyed it. Not having to deal with car payments, insurance, and maintenance goes quite a ways towards balancing out the high rent here. I live about a 20 minute walk from work so I only have to take the subway a couple times a week when I'm going out to Brooklyn where my girlfriend lives, so I only spend about $50/month at the most on transportation. And Spring through Fall, when the weather cooperates, I bike instead, which keeps me in good shape.

The only time I'm really inconvenienced and kind of miss having a car is when I fly back to Maine to visit my family. Plane tickets are cheap and it's a fast flight, but they live two hours from the airport. Which means I always need to either get someone to drive two hours to pick me up, then two hours back on each end of the trip (which is a lot to ask), or I need to rent a car, which gets expensive fast if I want to visit for more than a couple days (if you don't have car insurance of your own, you get stuck having to get it through the rental company which adds $50/day or so to the cost of the rental).


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jan 18, 2013)

I like driving and spending lots of money on cars appeals to me strongly. The more they damage the environment, the more I like them!


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## skeels (Jan 18, 2013)

If I didn't have kids.....

I'd probably still have a car to bring logs home....

I used to not have a car. It was a long time ago.. Walked everywhere. Groceries. Laundry. Work. Walked to get beer. Didn't even have a bike. 

Still have friends who don't drive. My age even. That's really, really old, btw.

My car is my family wagon, my work truck and a camper all in one.

Couple years ago, threw a futon in the back and drove to the Pacific. Good times.

My point is that sometimes I just ramble on. Blah blah blah.

Thank you.

Carry on.


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## thraxil (Jan 18, 2013)

possumkiller said:


> IUnfortunately there are no horse lanes or I would just get a horse. I don't need a horse license, horse insurance, horse registration. All you have to do is fill it up with feed and keep it healthy.



Ha! Clearly you've never owned a horse. That's a money pit if ever there was one. 

It works like this: first you spend a couple grand on a decent horse. Then you spend a few hundred to a few grand on saddle, tack, etc. Then, if you don't already have a good barn and pasture setup, you spend a few thousand (or way more) getting those built and set up. Or you pay to stable your horse with someone who does have that. A few bucks up to a few hundred a month depending on where you live and how pampered you want your horse to be. Your horse needs new shoes every year or so (they magically lose them, even though they're nailed to their feet) and needs to be re-shod every couple months, so plan on paying a farrier a few hundred a year. Feed will be relatively cheap, at least compared to the rest of the crap. Oh, did you want to ride the horse somewhere other than around and around in a boring circle in the pasture? Time to buy a horse trailer and a giant, gas-guzzling pickup truck with enough power to pull it. And, of course, if you're the kind of person willing to buy a horse in the first place, you'll probably want endless riding lessons, which aren't cheap (after all, the instructors need to pay the bills for their own horse addiction). 

Don't think it's all just money. You'll also get to enjoy spending hours a day feeding it, exercising it, mucking out its stall, grooming it, and reading it bedtime stories. You'll be up early in the morning going out in the cold and you'll have to work your entire schedule around being home at the right times to feed it.

Then, of course, you will discover that your horse is stupid beyond belief. It will figure out a way to injure itself on some mind-bogglingly harmless object in its stall, get its head stuck in the fence, eat a horseshoe nail, or just develop some horrible disease out of nowhere. Then you're dealing with horse veterinarians and any money you may have had left will just vanish before you blink. All of it. You are now either bankrupt or in deep debt. 

Gosh, I sound a little bitter there, don't I? Sorry. Grew up on a farm and had horses for a while (we actually were lucky enough to not own them and were getting paid to stable them, but I still spent too much of my childhood shoveling horseshit), my aunt raised horses for years and was big on the competitive trail riding circuit (yes, that's a thing), and my ex-girlfriend was an endurance racer and did dressage.

Beautiful animals, and I've had wonderful experiences with them like riding through the high Andes in Ecuador. But cheap they are not. The worst, GAS-suffering gearhead guitarists among us on this forum with studios full of high-end custom guitars, stacks of amps, and racks of effects have *nothing* on your average horse fanatic.

Now back to hating on cars.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Jan 18, 2013)

My car's exhaust system basically fell apart about a year ago. I had it parked in the driveway for about 9 months, due to not having the cash to do anything else about it. Still had to pay for insurance and all that while it was parked, though.

Once it got warm-ish, I decided to fix up the bicycle I got in '09 (which had been out of commission for a year or more due to a smallish issue that I was too lazy and frustrated to fix), and started riding that everywhere. I had the bike as my primary means of transportation for a good 5 months or more before I was able to fix the car, and I'd ride in all kinds of weather. I found that I was able to get rides from friends for most things where I'd normally need my car, such as any time I needed to transport my gear to play a show or whatever.

I finally managed to get the car fixed in late September, but I've continued to use the bike as my primary transportation for a few reasons (money, health, fun), and actually just recently upgraded to a nicer bike. My car now sits out on the street for, often, a week or more at a time.

I live in Boston, though, and have less than a 5-mile commute to work, and I've found that I can get pretty much everywhere I need to go on any kind of regular basis by bike, and it doesn't take much longer than driving - and in some cases, it actually takes less time. Example: I can drive, and get from my house to where I work in about 10 minutes, but then I have to search around for parking (which often takes 15+ minutes), and I may have to move my car a couple hours later and search for a new spot at least once to avoid getting a ticket, so there's another 15 minutes right there. Alternatively, I could ride my bike to work (20-30 minutes depending on traffic, how I hit the signals at intersections, and my energy level), lock up in front of the store, and not worry about it until I go home. I could take public transportation, but that takes 45+ minutes .

Another interesting thing I've found, is that since I've gotten so used to riding my bike everywhere, I actually find driving scarier than riding my bike on exactly the same route.


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## ilyti (Jan 18, 2013)

MFB said:


> But with a car you didn't need to worry about the elements. Not to mention the mongoloids that take the public transportation are the very ones that I would see at my work and I came to pride myself on spending as little time seeing them or letting them acknowledge my existence; nor did they go anywhere I really needed them to.


I used to hate seeing the trailer trash of society on the bus in Ottawa, but now I enjoy it. It's a sport, a people-watching sport. I know I'm barely above the trailer trash when it comes to the amount of money I make, but at least I know I WILL NEVER OWN CROCS or dye my hair bright blue and pink.

I never got my driver's license when I lived back in Denmark. My dad never did either, and he raised 3 kids. My wife got her license in Canada when she was 18 but always hated driving. We're the only couple we know of who don't have a car, or ever plan on owning one. 

In regards to the points made by SenorDingDong: You made the point about cars in this thread the way I never could. Have some rep!


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## 7stringDemon (Jan 18, 2013)

If I could get away with walking or riding a bike everywhere, I would.

Sadly, I'm just not in that position.


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## straightshreddd (Jan 18, 2013)

I've never gotten into the whole luxury/sports car thing. For me, as long as it looks decent, I'm fine with it. 

I hate how polluting they are but they really do become a necessity for some people. Lugging gear, groceries, picking up friends or family when they really need you to, getting somewhere asap because of an emergency, etc. There's tons of reasons to have one. 

But getting sick rims, over-the-top sound systems, etc has never been my thing. If someone likes that stuff, that's cool, I just never got into it so I understand senior there. However, if you rely on the bus, their schedule will dictate when you do things and that's kinda annoying. I always use to have to take it and when they're late, it sucks. Biking and walking is cool. I always walk if my destination is close by; saves gas. However, a 10 min drive can be an hour walk. And biking is awesome, but you can't lug anything.

Cars are not necessary all the time but they are definitely practical and efficient. 

People can be super lazy though. I love walking when I have the time and I know people that would drive 1 min up the street just to go to the store or some corny shit. Shit, I know people who gasp when I tell them I took a 20 min walk somewhere. lol


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## Eric Christian (Jan 19, 2013)

I work on automobiles for a living. I was driving a 55 GMC pickup on the farm at age before I was a teen. I've got a Jeep Rubicon Unlimited. I love the freedom of being able to fill up my tank and go down to the local 7-11 or drive 17 hours and go to the 7-11 on Sunset in Hollywood if I want to. Emerica...


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## kamello (Jan 19, 2013)

I moved to a very calm city and the public transport is pretty good (except at nights), so I think i'll stick to it, also, I love watching the ocean while listening to music on the bus 


But, I would love to have an old, used Mitsubishi Eclipse, mostly for recreational use, emergencies, and because I was a car enthusiast even before I was into guitar , and I think I would have enough will power to don't use the car for everything, I hate when someone on my family insist on going to buy grosseries at a store that is only 15 minutes on foot or something similar

edit: 

also, how can someone say no to this?


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## Kiwimetal101 (Jan 19, 2013)

Im in the process of learning to drive atm, I didn't get my learners License until i finished high school.. (3 years late)

I didnt wanna pay for the bus to uni so i started biking whether dependant (22kms there and back home)..

I see a car as freedom, not having to use mum and dad as a taxi, getting more hours at work (late night and deliveries), being able to get to primary schools weekly has part of my teaching degree..

But ive never really been into cars, my close mates that i have now are in love with the 50's music and hotrod wise. Ones rebuilding a 32 model a couple and the other was doing a 31 roadster(i think) but has recently switched to a phatom, which is cool and ive kinda gotten into mainly for the reason that the guys have restored something to its former glory

I wanna get an early 80's mini though, mainly for the fact that there small, nimble (basically a go kart with a box on top) low maintenance and that there cheap as fuck to run..


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## poopyalligator (Jan 19, 2013)

Also, most chicks probably don't dig that you don't have a ride, and if they want to go out with you they have to drive to take you somewhere.


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## SenorDingDong (Jan 19, 2013)

tedtan said:


> Are you taking issue with the status symbol aspect of owning a car or the actual functional issue with cars as a mode of transportation?
> 
> Also, I assume you are young, unmarried, without children and likely living in a "downtown" area. How far off am I?
> 
> ...





I'm not taking an issue with either. Again, I used the word "stupid" simply because I have no better word to describe my feelings. I simply don't understand the appeal of spending tons of money on a fast moving car that is supposed to look "sporty" or "classy." I don't even think it's a status symbol for some; they just want a very fast moving car so they can drive moronically fast in public areas.

I don't live in a downtown area, I'm not single but I don't have any kids, so you get 1 and 1/2 out of 3.


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## SenorDingDong (Jan 19, 2013)

poopyalligator said:


> Also, most chicks probably don't dig that you don't have a ride, and if they want to go out with you they have to drive to take you somewhere.



?

When I go on dates it's almost always in the city, where driving a car is the last thing you would ever want to do. In fact I went on a date last night in Manhattan. I've never once asked my partner for a ride. She knows I don't own a vehicle. The reason she does is because she works so far out of town. She hates driving. 




I think some people have totally missed the point; my main reason for this thread wasn't to challenge the need of cars. I just wondered if I was the only person who had no desire to own a vehicle. 

People are posting as if I questioned the necessity of cars. I did not. I gave my opinions on them, sure, but I didn't say, "Cars are useless." I'm not so naive or hung up on my _opinion_ as to think that some people go without. I'm lucky enough to be able to.




pink freud said:


> Driving+not fun=does not compute.




Things like that have no appeal to me. I don't find driving very fast to be fun. In fact it is one of the reasons I dislike certain people who own cars so intensely. I understand that the video involves a closed track, and features a professional driver, but there are idiots who try and drive like that in public, in places where children and the elderly consistently have to cross the street. Certain people, especially teenage boys, treat their two-ton vehicles like toys and often put other people in danger because they think it's "exciting."


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jan 19, 2013)

I tihnk the "freedom" aspect of driving people are referring to is the ability to go where you want, _when_ you want. Sure, you can go any*where* you want without a car (since you live somewhere where that's possible, though many Americans don't), but that *when* is an issue, too. I haven't driven in nearly a year, and I don't miss the added expenses at all, but as cheap and convenient as Korean public transit is, I can't help but wish I had a car when I'm standing at the bus stop waiting for a bus that's twenty minutes away. When you have a car, you don't have to plan your outings around when and where public transportation is running, or when one of your friends is able to pick you up. It's all you, and it can be pretty great.

That said, I do kinda like living somewhere where public transportation is cheap and readily available. Even cabs are pretty cheap here.


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## Ckackley (Jan 19, 2013)

People mention freedom.. How about being free from a car payment, insurance, mechanic bills, oil changes, ect ? If I lived in an area that I could get by without a car I'd do it in a second. I could buy a new NICE guitar every other month with what I spend on owning a car. I LOVE to drive, but I love other stuff too and wouldn't put the amount of money into those things as I do a car.


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## Jontain (Jan 19, 2013)

Motorbike.


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## tedtan (Jan 19, 2013)

SenorDingDong said:


> I'm not taking an issue with either. Again, I used the word "stupid" simply because I have no better word to describe my feelings.


 
Thanks for clarifying. I don't _want_ to spend money on vehicles myself, I simply have to given where I live - I'd much rather put the money into guitar and recording gear.




SenorDingDong said:


> I simply don't understand the appeal of spending tons of money on a fast moving car that is supposed to look "sporty" or "classy." I don't even think it's a status symbol for some; they just want a very fast moving car so they can drive moronically fast in public areas.


 
I can't blame the car for where or how how fast its being driven - that blame lies squarely on the moron behind the wheel. But I'm with you; every time I drive I see people not paying attention due to text messages, putting on makeup, blasting through stop signs/lights like they're not even there, etc. In short, people who shouldn't be allowed to drive.



SenorDingDong said:


> I don't live in a downtown area, I'm not single but I don't have any kids, so you get 1 and 1/2 out of 3.


 
Not quite as close as I thought, but I'm tempted to claim 2 1/2 out of 3 just because the New York area is _*so*_ unrepresentative of almost everywhere else in the country in terms of the available transportation options.


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## zappatton2 (Jan 19, 2013)

Still have my license, but haven't driven since the mid-90's. All the money involved in a car is always better allocated to musical matters IMO. Mind you, if I lived in the country, I'd be singing a different tune. But it is an interesting topic, in the sense that at one time in recent history, cars were a bit of a status thing, but I was just reading an article in the paper about the kids nowadays avoiding the whole thing, car ownership just isn't what it once was. I suppose it's for the best in terms of curbing emissions, just don't tell that to Oshawa or Detroit.


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## Varcolac (Jan 19, 2013)

AxeHappy said:


> Public transits sucks in London, and I have gear to haul to shows and rehearsals and whatnot. So I own a car. Also makes visiting family and friends out of town and going to concerts much easier.
> 
> I'm also a professional driver (BZ license which means I can drive everything but transports, motorcycles and heavy equipment) so I drive quite a bit.
> 
> And if you aren't scared about driving or getting in an accident you merely haven't driven enough or aren't really a very good driver. The amount of shit I see everyday...fuck. I'm surprised the already staggering amount of deaths caused by auto accidents annually aren't even higher.



I live in the other London (England). Public transport is so good that at the age of 26 I've still never learned to drive. I live a ten minute walk or a three minute bus ride from the nearest underground station, and after a thirty minute train journey my place of work is less than a five minute walk away. Anywhere I might go for a night out is within an easy walk of a tube station or bus stop.

Even seeing my parents is easier accomplished by public transport than by car, and one of them lives in Paris!

I need to get a car eventually, just to expand my possibilities for employment and music - transporting amplifiers or double basses by public transport is a pain in the arse. I'd probably get something boring with plenty of space and good mileage - the car as a hobby doesn't really do it for me.


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## HaMMerHeD (Jan 19, 2013)

If you don't need a car, then you don't need it, and that's all the answer you need.

Be advised, however, that it is very likely you will move at some point in your life, and you may find yourself in need of one.

Cars are a pain in the ass. They cost a lot of money to operate. Factoring in gas, insurance, maintenance, and bank note payment, mine costs me about $26 per day.


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## caskettheclown (Jan 20, 2013)

personally I think fast cars and bigass trucks are just compensators most of the time , unless they serve an actual purpose (Like hauling things a lot or professionally racing). I mean if you can afford it then yea its not compensating but if you buy a fast super nice car and live in a shithole place then yea something is up.

I would walk everywhere if I could but due to my skin disease i'm not really able to, so I have to drive most places. Plus most places I go to are 20 minutes at least driving anyway unless I walk to the gas station right down the street.


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## Murmel (Jan 20, 2013)

^
Personally I wouldn't buy a super expensive kick ass car to show off. If I bought one it would be to drive fast because I enjoy driving fast.

But I can't even afford the shittiest of cars right now.. .


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## zappatton2 (Jan 20, 2013)

I compensate with badass guitars. Now if I could only get better at playing them.


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 20, 2013)

I understand not liking driving everywhere cause it makes you fat and lazy or pollutes the world or whatever reasons you may come up with...

but what about needing a vehicle for hauling gear, driving yourself to the emergency room (you wanna pay for an ambulence if you really dont need to?), making it to your familys/friends special events on time, or rushing your wife/gf to the hospital to have your kid

surely a bus or bike would not be the best options.

i guess its just hard for me to get around the idea of not having a car 

edit: maybe wouldnt be such a big deal if i still was at the folks as theyre both retired and have vehicles, but who wants to rely on mom and pops in their late 20s? :\


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Jan 20, 2013)

I recommend to anyone, who hasn't already, to work hard at earning their license.

One of developed societies main goals is to reduce reliance on infrastructure. As time passes and the population grows designs of the past become obselete and congested. So preventing young people from being able to drive is in the public interest, saving taxpayer's money in maintenance and major engineering work to the road network.

For instance, in the UK there is a theory component to the driving test, a sit down examination. When I took it there was 35 questions, more than 5 wrong and it was a fail.
A few years later a friend took his exam, 60 questions, more than 7 wrong was a fail.
I would guess the trend of more difficult tests has carried on.

The insurance prices for young drivers also work to keep them off the road. Most of the people I knew that died in car accidents were teenagers. They all died from stupid shit, like deciding to undo their seat belt to take off their jumper/jacket or buying too powerful cars and driving like they were racing drivers.

Cars offer great freedom, I could drive anywhere in Europe any time I like. The other part is responsibility. If you have older relatives you might need to help them or moving heavy items for music etc.

I don't get this car show room model of signing up for finance to buy over priced new cars. The 2nd hand market is full of classic cars that really stand out on the roads now a days, especially as car design has gotten worse aesthetically over the years.
I go to a lot of classic car shows and it's great to see the bold ideas from the past.







Oh, yeah, someone mentioned Lamborghin Diablos. A friend of mine bought one ( a pre Audi '94 model) a few years back. He gave me a spin in it onetime. Awesome.
It made me think what death traps family cars are. After experiencing the Diablo's stopping distance and handling capabilities it made me think very differently about how safe family cars are.

He eventually sold it for a decent profit (10%) as he couldn't drive it in the rain (too much torque) and he was constantly stopped by the Police, who wanted a tour of the engine and to discuss Lamborghini and the Audi take over with him.


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## HaMMerHeD (Jan 20, 2013)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> *I don't get this car show room model of signing up for finance to buy over priced new cars.* The 2nd hand market is full of classic cars that really stand out on the roads now a days, especially as car design has gotten worse aesthetically over the years.



Warranty.


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Jan 20, 2013)

^Good point.
I was thinking of vendors profiting from finance packages more than the item, selling people things they can't afford.

A friend of mine goes to car auctions and buys older cars, probably late '90s to early '00s and runs them 'til they drop, or are beyond his own mechanical knowledge, then sells them to scrap dealers to recoup his initial outlay.

Works out quite cheap for him, his only expenses being fuel and paperwork, but he does live in an urban area where getting stranded isn't such a big deal.

If he sees an investment opportunity he buys and sells in the local advertisements. It's a neat little hobby that keeps him quite busy. It's always a surprise when he says how little he paid for the cars.


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## soliloquy (Jan 20, 2013)

you're still a bit young. 
once you get a a 9-5 job where commuting by bus/train turns into 2.5 hours, vs 45ish minutes driving, you'll realize that you need a car.

plus, public transit is not reliable as far as time is concerned. sometimes its too early and leave without waiting. sometimes its too late. sometimes it never shows up. sometimes it doesn't even stop to let you on coz they are ass holes like that. 

on top of that, once you are doing grocery shopping, or buying big things, lugging them around in the bus is not practicle. 

also, once/if you have a girlfriend/boyfriend, going on dates with a car is more fun than jumping on a bus, and being at the mercy of the bus and its curfew since it doesn't run 24/7.


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## wespaul (Jan 20, 2013)

SenorDingDong said:


> my main reason for this thread wasn't to challenge the need of cars.



Yeah, but you _did_ say this:



SenorDingDong said:


> I find the idea of a car being necessary stupid.



I can tell you, as a single parent, that a car is most definitely _necessary_ and that I do _need_ one to get to drop my kid off at school, get to work (both jobs), as well as get to school. That doesn't count the unscheduled hospital visits, because kids will be kids, or the other emergencies that come up.


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## Double A (Jan 20, 2013)

Estilo said:


> But what is it about cars or owning them or using them that you find stupid?


I find the whole car culture bullshit stupid.

Awesome, you have a huge truck with tires that aren't legal and/or your car is super shiny and can go real fast but you really can't go fast with it because there really is nowhere to fucking do that sort of thing at without killing yourself. Weeeee.

I work construction in the middle of the streets and once in a while we get jackoffs in huge trucks that go by and rev their stupid, non cost effective engines real loud to try and scare us. Basically everyone that works construction like we do thinks guys with huge trucks have tiny dicks and are compensating.

But I love driving. I own a POS with good milage because all I want from a car is for it to run and not be expensive.


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## HaMMerHeD (Jan 20, 2013)

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> ^Good point.
> I was thinking of vendors profiting from finance packages more than the item, selling people things they can't afford.
> 
> A friend of mine goes to car auctions and buys older cars, probably late '90s to early '00s and runs them 'til they drop, or are beyond his own mechanical knowledge, then sells them to scrap dealers to recoup his initial outlay.
> ...



That's cool. I just don't have time for that kind of thing.


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## Bodes (Jan 20, 2013)

I like the idea of not using my car. I have become quite lazy this past 2 years and have just bought a bike to ride to work (~9.5 km each way).

However, I do need to use my car as I moved to be closer to work (convenience for 5 days a week), which ultimately puts my friends/family at a decent distance from where I now live and living with my GF with her 2 kids means that it is not easy to just get to places when needing to.


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## troyguitar (Jan 20, 2013)

I went from my girlfriend's apartment in Boston, MA to my house in Bloomsburg, PA this afternoon in 5 hours door to door at the cost of around 12 gallons of gas. Good luck doing that without a car!


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## bhakan (Jan 20, 2013)

Double A said:


> I find the whole car culture bullshit stupid.
> 
> Awesome, you have a huge truck with tires that aren't legal and/or your car is super shiny and can go real fast but you really can't go fast with it because there really is nowhere to fucking do that sort of thing at without killing yourself. Weeeee.
> 
> ...


I drive a muscle car, and I don't drive like an asshole, I don't speed or anything, but I still get way more enjoyment by driving it over a boring sedan. 

It's difficult to describe why, but it just feels better driving a powerful car. It is like why a $2000 guitar feels better than a $500 dollar guitar. You can play music just fine on both of them, so by your logic, why would anyone pat extra?


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## Double A (Jan 20, 2013)

A guitar is not really a car.


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## bhakan (Jan 20, 2013)

Of course not. But in both, there are basic models that do just enough (get from point A to B/produce notes) and then models with extras (more horsepower/better pickups for example). I figured it would be a good example since everyone here shares interest in guitars.


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## Double A (Jan 20, 2013)

bhakan said:


> Of course not. But in both, there are basic models that do just enough (get from point A to B/produce notes) and then models with extras (more horsepower/better pickups for example). I figured it would be a good example since everyone here shares interest in guitars.


Very basically, with guitar and amps the more money you spend the better your sound or toans (I know that is not the case really but it is a very _general_ rule that sort of holds true, lol) but with a car if you get more muscle what the fuck are you really going to do with it? Have your daily commute shaved by half a minute with all that extra horsepower? Or maybe drive over other cars with your huge monster truck?

It is kind of the same for both things but also very kind of not. Hence, a guitar is not really a car.

I mean, fine, you like expensive cars, great, more power to ya. I just think macho car bullshit is lame and not worth any effort to pursue on my part.


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## bhakan (Jan 20, 2013)

Double A said:


> Very basically, with guitar and amps the more money you spend the better your sound or toans (I know that is not the case really but it is a very _general_ rule that sort of holds true, lol) but with a car if you get more muscle what the fuck are you really going to do with it? Have your daily commute shaved by half a minute with all that extra horsepower? Or maybe drive over other cars with your huge monster truck?
> 
> It is kind of the same for both things but also very kind of not. Hence, a guitar is not really a car.
> 
> I mean, fine, you like expensive cars, great, more power to ya. I just think macho car bullshit is lame and not worth any effort to pursue on my part.


I understand not liking cars yourself, just note it isn't always "macho bullshit" and driving fast. I have fun driving my car at 25mph. It just feels different, the same way an expensive guitar's neck may feel better. Having a guitar that plays well and has low action allows you to play faster, but you don't have to play fast to enjoy it more than a guitar that is more difficult to play, same with a fast car.


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## Double A (Jan 20, 2013)

I am willing to agree to disagree.


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## pink freud (Jan 21, 2013)

Double A said:


> Very basically, with guitar and amps the more money you spend the better your sound or toans (I know that is not the case really but it is a very _general_ rule that sort of holds true, lol) but with a car if you get more muscle what the fuck are you really going to do with it? Have your daily commute shaved by half a minute with all that extra horsepower? Or maybe drive over other cars with your huge monster truck?
> 
> It is kind of the same for both things but also very kind of not. Hence, a guitar is not really a car.
> 
> I mean, fine, you like expensive cars, great, more power to ya. I just think macho car bullshit is lame and not worth any effort to pursue on my part.



Sometimes a certain amount of power is necessary. Especially with idiot city planners who make 15 foot highway on-ramps.


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## The_Mop (Jan 21, 2013)

To the OP: (tl;dr - insurance companies are shysters and boy racers are idiots)

I understand exactly what you mean, but from a slightly different perspective. Let me explain:

20 years old, I pass my test. Should have passed it at 17 but got messed about by an instructor. Had to take my theory twice because one lapsed while away at uni. Finally pass my test, and I have the good fortune of having a car available to me, in this case a Mk4 Golf. Awesome! However - insurance came a-knockin. It turned out that, even though I'd just passed and *HADN'T EVEN HAD THE CHANCE TO DO ANYTHING WRONG*, my insurance quotes were sky high. Cheapest was around £3,600 at the time. Tried every suggested hypothetical 'method' of getting cheaper quotes, none of it worked. I had to wait a year and hope that the premiums come down.

A year passes - and still, ridiculous premiums. The most expensive I was quoted was *£38,000*.... the cheapest just over £3k. Most people I rang up quoted £7k. Pointless. This is for a car worth about £1.5k, mind.

The only quote that was in the approximate region of sanity was from this company that puts a telemetry box in my car and monitors *EVERYTHING I DO*. Now, I already had a safe attitude to driving, so I wasn't worried that I'd get penalised for anything. And infact, this specific company didn't do 'penalties' as such, they do 'bonuses' for good driving, but the premium stays the same. Some other companies adjust premiums based on telemetry.

The problem with this is it means I shouldn't be driving at rush hour, early in the morning/late at night, I should drive on motorways as much as possible, I should stop every so often on long journeys, and I can only drive a certain amount of miles before I have to top up the policy and give them even more bloody money.

The biggest problem with this is that it really strips away why most people have a car:


To drive to work in rush hour because public transport is shite
To drive at night when public transport is shut down
To drive early when I need to be somewhere quickly
Freedom to drive where/whenever you want.
Y'know, it's not like I, amongst other people, drive in these scenarios to just be annoying. It's because THAT'S WHAT MOST PEOPLE OWN A CAR FOR. Fucking infuriating. So, in conclusion, those few years of being young and having the time and freedom to go on road trips and whatever have been stripped of me by white collar financier arseholes.

But when it comes to the attitude towards driving as a whole - it's the cost that puts me off, in terms of money, health, environment, e.t.c. I feel quite guilty using a car, because I know there's often more efficient ways of doing the same trip if I was better oganised or was fitter or something.

The thing that really annoys me is that I hate seeing people drive unsafely. I'm incredibly cautious myself, and it doesn't help when all that effort goes into it and my insurers thing I'm just some other boy racer bellend. The more I got into driving, the more I kinda realised the futility of speeding on public roads - it's obviously going to be more exciting and less limiting to just go get a racing license and drive on a proper track. Instead they cause havoc on the streets and drive the premiums up for the rest of us.

So, in conclusion - insurance has more or less ruined the driving experience for me. It's useful in a practical sense but I've never been excited by driving. I'd say it's perfectly rational to not be interested in it at all.

EDIT: Fuck, that was a long post. These people make me fucking seethe


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## Breakdown (Jan 21, 2013)

I hate driving simply because you have to trust people to follow the rules of the road when you do. Too often I see people disregarding right of way, stop signs as well as merging without putting their turn signal on among other dangerous driving practices. The first I would do if I ever became obscenely wealthy is hire a driver.


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## benduncan (Jan 21, 2013)

i think the idea of living in a modern structure is stupid. i just dont understand the _appeal._ i can build my own cabin in the woods...it shelters me from the rain and snow....

i have no desire to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars a month on rent or a mortgage.

i understand your point, and it the big picture, yes they are stupid. but the way our country is currently set up some people need to use them. not everyone can get a job and make enough money to support their family thats within walking/biking distance. youre just as stupid(sorry, couldnt think of another word to express my feelings) as the rest of us because 99% of the things you use were probably shipped by a truck. like the computer(which by the way contains materials, mined in africa. that people were killed to get) youre using.

i dont mean to sound like an asshole but why did you post this thread? im just going to ask that question. btw its rhetorical


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## benduncan (Jan 21, 2013)

AND most of you needn't feel that guilty about the environmental impact because the vast majority of air pollution is industrial, heating and stuff. im not at all saying its not bad, or that this shouldnt change. im saying its not just cars and that big business..et cetera is the MAIN problem

EDIT:i want to make it clear that im not a global warming denier at all


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## bannyd (Jan 21, 2013)

poopyalligator said:


> I drive a cts-v coupe


 
Hi - you're the only person who makes sense to me in this thread 

lol


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## Mindcrime1204 (Jan 21, 2013)

lol @ the whole "compensating for something with his big truck"

it seems like a good joke untill you see that 90% of the accidents big/lifted trucks get into - they drive away with very minor dents or scratches. 

I dont own a lifted truck, but I usually feel more safe in my buddies lifted truck than I do in my other friends 98 geo metro  

truck guys have a nickname for small cars, they call em "coffin cars"

Both of them beat walking in 110 degree texas summer heat.


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## Winspear (Jan 21, 2013)

thraxil said:


> The worst, GAS-suffering gearhead guitarists among us on this forum with studios full of high-end custom guitars, stacks of amps, and racks of effects have *nothing* on your average horse fanatic.



This post made me laugh  This sentence describes me and my girlfriend..I guess we are financially doomed 

I would love to not want a car, and agree with you for the most part. Half the time I really don't need one - but then there's the times I want to go over to a friends for the evening, or go to the gym without spending over an hour on public transport, etc. I would certainly love to live somewhere that I didn't need one.


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## Cancer (Jan 21, 2013)

I love driving, and by that I mean having the ability to hop in my car and go SOMEWHERE. There's just something about the "freedom" to go wherever that I've always liked. Having a car is also good for carrying things like groceries, gear, and/or luggage. I do find myself wishing I use more mass transit for things like daily commutes and clubbing though, as that would be convenient.

It's a huge expense, and too be honest the more responsible you try to be about (driving a hybrid for example) the more expensive it gets, which is stupid, but I'd miss driving if I had to stop doing it tomorrow.


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## ghostred7 (Jan 21, 2013)

I love driving. It's not about going fast (hell...I have a 04 Jeep Grand Cherokee...not even close to fast nor fancy). I love just driving. You're not going to get wind in your hair with 3-4 other people just chillin for the hell of it on public transport. I do use public transport a lot....but I refuse to forego my love of driving simply out of convenience.

Now that I have children....its a LOT cheaper to drive than to continually use public transit. Also, my mother lives in a rural NC (approx 550mi away from me) and not even the buses go there. To take my children to see their grandmother would involve 4 plane tickets, a rental car, and logistical nightmares.....or we can hop in my car, drive, and get there on $100. Very rough guess...but I figure that's about 10% of what it'd be to fly us all there.


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## troyguitar (Jan 21, 2013)

I wonder if people who don't like driving just don't value their time very much. Even when I used to live in Boston/Cambridge which is congested, complicated, and difficult to find parking in it still took way longer to get most places using public transport than using a car. If you're in a big city and/or a student with no job or some part-time $10/hr job and just can't afford to drive that's one thing, but for a regular adult with a real job I don't see how anyone deals with not having a car.

I drove 22000 miles last year at about 30 miles per gallon, just under $3k in gas costs. That includes roughly 15 round trips between Bloomsburg and either Detroit or Boston. Even assuming I went by myself every time (not the case), it was cheaper to have the car than to take any other kind of transportation - not to mention faster by at least a few hours each trip.

I could save some money by biking to work and back, but like I wrote earlier that would cost me an extra 4 hours per week - not including extra time spent changing clothes and doing laundry because I can't be sweaty/dirty at work. My gas costs for driving to work and back are a measily $2 per day though. I consider the extra 4 hours per week to be worth more than saving $10.

I guess if you have more money you can just use planes, taxis, and rental cars to travel, but for the rest of us a car is the way to go.


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## soliloquy (Jan 21, 2013)

the other thing i really love about driving is that its a perfect 'me' time. between going to see family/friends, working, going to the gym etc, doing things where people are constantly in your face/space. 

driving is a perfect thing to do to get away from them
i also enjoy driving as its the only time i get to listen to my music (cds). my hearing is fairly sensitive so no ear phones for me. but in my car, its my music, my thoughts, and my peace 

if you're in the bus, you dont get that


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## Double A (Jan 21, 2013)

soliloquy said:


> the other thing i really love about driving is that its a perfect 'me' time. between going to see family/friends, working, going to the gym etc, doing things where people are constantly in your face/space.
> 
> driving is a perfect thing to do to get away from them
> i also enjoy driving as its the only time i get to listen to my music (cds). my hearing is fairly sensitive so no ear phones for me. but in my car, its my music, my thoughts, and my peace


This is why I love driving too. The freedom it allows is hard to describe, undoubtedly most of us have felt it. Myself, I resisted getting my license for a long time but living in a place like Maine you really need a license, once I got it I felt so dumb. My main (dumb) argument was "why do we have to drive all the time, certainly we can do something better for all of us" and then I was driving and I was like, "oh, ok". haha.

That said, as my previous posts have shown, I have always been very much against "car culture" and all the bullshit that goes with it. Whether it is mouth breathers getting into fist fights about whether Chevy trucks or Ford trucks are the best (I have seen this shit with my own eyes, rural murrica is the tops) or the people having a midlife crisis and buying some sort of sports car, I just find it all male posturing and compensation. Just another thing to prove you are a man, man.


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## soliloquy (Jan 21, 2013)

Double A said:


> This is why I love driving too. The freedom it allows is hard to describe, undoubtedly most of us have felt it. Myself, I resisted getting my license for a long time but living in a place like Maine you really need a license, once I got it I felt so dumb. My main (dumb) argument was "why do we have to drive all the time, certainly we can do something better for all of us" and then I was driving and I was like, "oh, ok". haha.
> 
> That said, as my previous posts have shown, I have always been very much against "car culture" and all the bullshit that goes with it. Whether it is mouth breathers getting into fist fights about whether Chevy trucks or Ford trucks are the best (I have seen this shit with my own eyes, rural murrica is the tops) or the people having a midlife crisis and buying some sort of sports car, I just find it all male posturing and compensation. Just another thing to prove you are a man, man.




my philosophy about driving is:
if its taking me from point A to point B, and its not giving me any headaches along the way, and its a fairy quiet and comfy car, then i'm fine with that.

small things like rust on my car annoy me, but not enough to go out of my way to fix it. 

and the only problems i'm fine with my car giving me are either tires need replacing, or engine oil change well after its been driven more than 300,000 km! 

i'm sticking to the korean/japanese cars as in my experience, they are the only ones that have lasted more than 200 000 without any headache.


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## bannyd (Jan 21, 2013)

Double A said:


> That said, as my previous posts have shown, I have always been very much against "car culture" and all the bullshit that goes with it. Whether it is mouth breathers getting into fist fights about whether Chevy trucks or Ford trucks are the best (I have seen this shit with my own eyes, rural murrica is the tops) or the people having a midlife crisis and buying some sort of sports car, I just find it all male posturing and compensation. Just another thing to prove you are a man, man.


 
I'm big in the whole car culture thing -- i've never once been to a meet where a fist fight breaks out about chevy vs ford or things of the like... that actually never happens

also, for those of us who do mod our cars, its more about a sense of being unique -- and when i say "mod" - I dont mean big chunky body kits and strobes and shit 

making a car faster by learning more about it and figuring out ways to create something totally unique is a pleasure in itself.

Its much like modding a guitar or even building one - you want to make it sound better, you want to get a guitar that looks beautiful - you, too, are on a forum that, depending on what gear you have, it proves you're a man, man 

for example, please take a gander here 
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/212353-car-thread.html

there are plenty of us on this forum 

i mean, hell - i only joined up on this forum because the car forum i was a part of is under construction for a while lol


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## kerska (Jan 21, 2013)

Driving a car is a luxury to me. It's nice to have and pretty damn nice to just be able to go where you want when you need to. I've lived both with and without a vehicle and while living with a vehicle is far superior than not having one, it definitely wasn't necessary and didn't really impede my ability to get around.

Also, I'm a huge fan of driving with the windows down and the radio on blast when it's mid summer and like 70 degrees outside. Sometimes getting in my truck and going for a cruise through the city with no destination in mind is pretty bad ass.


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## HaMMerHeD (Jan 21, 2013)

kerska said:


> Driving a car is a luxury to me. It's nice to have and pretty damn nice to just be able to go where you want when you need to. I've lived both with and without a vehicle and while living with a vehicle is far superior than not having one, it definitely wasn't necessary and didn't really impede my ability to get around.
> 
> Also, I'm a huge fan of driving with the windows down and the radio on blast when it's mid summer and like 70 degrees outside. Sometimes getting in my truck and going for a cruise through the city with no destination in mind is pretty bad ass.



Mid-summer and 70 degrees in Dallas? Not possible.


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## bannyd (Jan 21, 2013)

also - how do you guys go about playing shows at venues? How does one haul around a guitar and amp using public transport? I'm actually curious - how does that work out for you?


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## Double A (Jan 21, 2013)

bannyd said:


> I'm big in the whole car culture thing -- i've never once been to a meet where a fist fight breaks out about chevy vs ford or things of the like... that actually never happens
> 
> also, for those of us who do mod our cars, its more about a sense of being unique -- and when i say "mod" - I dont mean big chunky body kits and strobes and shit
> 
> ...


You didn't grow up in rural Maine where basically the only thing to do is drink and work on cars.

Now do not mistake me when I say these things as that I mean all people into cars must be like this. I know that is not true, but I have put up and seen enough bullshit in my life to come around to the position. That doesn't mean all "car" people are assholes, it just means it is something I would rather not deal with.


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## kerska (Jan 21, 2013)

HaMMerHeD said:


> Mid-summer and 70 degrees in Dallas? Not possible.


 
Yeah true....more like October hahaha. Although we do get fluke days in the summer when the humidity breaks and cools down for a night or two.


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## Winspear (Jan 22, 2013)

bannyd said:


> also - how do you guys go about playing shows at venues? How does one haul around a guitar and amp using public transport? I'm actually curious - how does that work out for you?



This is SS.org - we don't play shows!


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## sawtoothscream (Jan 22, 2013)

I personally like driving, that where I listen to music the most. Also I 100% NEED a car. No buses around my house, taxis would cost a ton just to get to work and back. If I lived in the city then yaI would rather bike ride because gas prices suck. But I would never live in a city so ill keepthe cars  Plus I hunt and have to bring my gear to practice somehow so yup SUV it is lol. 

Im happy with the vehicle I have and will drive it into the ground. I dont have a need for anything else at this point.


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## bannyd (Jan 22, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> This is SS.org - we don't play shows!


 
touché


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## The_Mop (Jan 29, 2013)

benduncan said:


> i think the idea of living in a modern structure is stupid. i just dont understand the _appeal._ i can build my own cabin in the woods...it shelters me from the rain and snow....
> 
> i have no desire to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars a month on rent or a mortgage.
> 
> ...


 
Bwahaha, hate to call you out on this, but this is like the most american thing I've ever heard....

'Wait, you _DON'T_ like big trucks? Why don't you go live in a log cabin, you damn commie!' 

I kid, I kid. In all seriousness though, I know what you mean, you could see driving as a necessity if you're in that situation. Where I live in the UK, public transport is pretty terrible but it's not useless. However I lived in a place that was down south and out in the sticks, public transport was getting on for unexistant and the roads were unsafe enough to drive, never mind walk or cycle. Then, I had no choice but to drive to work.

I think the OP's ability to see that it's within his means to do without a car, is nothing more than sensible resource management. A lot of people would be tempted into the luxury of a car if they didn't really need it and become quite lazy (I've been guilty of this myself....well, using it when I shouldn't have)


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## troyguitar (Jan 29, 2013)

Depends on what you're calling lazy... I can get more things done in a given amount of time by using a car. Driving 5 minutes to the store and back versus wasting 35 minutes to walk there is not lazy in my book, it's efficient and productive. That's an extra half hour of sleep or work or guitar practice or whatever. People with cars do more, how is that lazy?


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## Mercano (Jan 29, 2013)

I support you Ding Dong.

Here in my country, taxes and fuel are so high priced that is like having a baby... you have to spend lot of money monthly just to have a car, not even driving it. I don't need a car for my job or to move myself, i prefer public transport, i just have to be sit or stand and let someone else put atenttion on the road, and at low price! 

Cheers.


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## Nykur_Myrkvi (Jan 29, 2013)

I like driving actually but I understand the OP's point of view.

I didn't enjoy it when I first started driving. I even waited an extra two years before I even started learning.

In Iceland you can't rely too much on the public transportation system though. It's quite a mess. They keep bringing the prices up while cutting services. A friend of mine who had always taken the bus, never needed a car, had to choose between buying a car or changing his job because suddenly the bus doesn't go near his house early in the morning or late afternoon/evening.

Even one of the two big malls here has bus problems. On normal days it closes at 6 pm and that's when the bus stops going there.

That means if you're working there (and if you are you are probably there at least half an hour more) you have no possibility of public transport. Once a week it's open until 9 pm so even if you´d get to leave early you're still f***ed.

I'm lucky because my house is situated close to the main bus route and so is my place of work so one bus gets me there and back but because of the insane amount of people relying on that specific bus on the standard work/school hours sometimes people get left behind as the bus is over it's capacity.

This system has to change if not owning a car is to become a possibility.

Or well...it is a possibility if you are planning to work and live only close the the main line and do nothing else throughout the day unless it is close to one of the few buses that actually runs until 10 pm/midnight.

/rant


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## Xaios (Jan 29, 2013)

The_Mop said:


> However - insurance came a-knockin. It turned out that, even though I'd just passed and *HADN'T EVEN HAD THE CHANCE TO DO ANYTHING WRONG*, my insurance quotes were sky high. Cheapest was around £3,600 at the time. Tried every suggested hypothetical 'method' of getting cheaper quotes, none of it worked. I had to wait a year and hope that the premiums come down.



I'll respond to this, as I'm an insurance broker by trade.

The fact is, unfortunately, that as a young guy, you are at the highest risk of havng an at-fault accident. Now, let me tell you this. When I go driving, I swear that I see more girls driving like maniacs than I do guys these days. But then when I see the numbers, they still show that young guys are the ones having the grand majority of the accident.

However, there's another factor that's worth considering: insurance law, or rather, in the event of an accident, what will the law force your insurance to pay for. Now, admittedly, I have zero knowledge of insurance law in the UK, so I'll use local examples.

Here in Canada, insurance law is dependant on your province of residence, rather being nation-wide (the provinces and territories of course have reciprocity agreements that state if two people are involved in an accident from different jurisdictions, policies will always pay for things they wouldn't normally under their own jurisdiction). Here in the Yukon, insurance is based on Tort Law. Among the many details of that arrangement is that, if someone hits you, their insurance pays for the property damage caused. Now, this can create some strained situations because people aren't always willing to report at-fault claims to their insurance companies because their premiums may go up, so settlements can become quite delayed. However, it also keeps costs down, so insurance is relatively inexpensive here.

Ontario, conversely, has a No-Fault insurance system. That means that, if someone else hits you, your own insurance policy is the one that pays for the damage. Now this has positives. Firstly, you'll always be compensated by your own insurance so long as you're not at fault. Also, it reduces wait time. However, because the No-Fault system is also far more costly for insurance companies in general, it necessitates an additional form of coverage called "Direct Compensation," the cost of which is passed on to the consumer.

Also, there are certain proclivities with insurance law that can cause trouble. This may have been changed at this point, but a big hot-button insurance issue in Ontario a couple years ago was the fact that, because of how Accident Benefits coverage had to be worded, it opened the door for a truly _ridiculous_ amount of fraudulent soft tissue injury claims. Basically, if there was any remote situation in which you could claim a soft tissue injury, you could make a no-fault claim against your policy which your insurance company would have to pay out. And because many soft-tissue injuries are difficult or sometimes impossible to disprove, the insurance companies didn't have any recourse with which to prove a claim was fraudulent. The result was people were bleeding the insurance companies dry with false claims, which resulted in Accident Benefits premiums (a mandory coverage if you've got liability insurance on a vehicle) skyrocketing. This compounded the problem, because then honest people were legitimately feeling screwed, and were more prone to turning into dishonest people by making fraudulent claims in order to get their money back. A vicious cycle.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Jan 30, 2013)

Today I turned the legal age to learn to/begin driving (17 here in the UK), and I can't wait personally. /shrug


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## benduncan (Jan 30, 2013)

The_Mop said:


> Bwahaha, hate to call you out on this, but this is like the most american thing I've ever heard....
> 
> 'Wait, you _DON'T_ like big trucks? Why don't you go live in a log cabin, you damn commie!'
> 
> ...



haha, thats not exactly what i was attempting to convey. the point that i was trying to make was that of course if you think outside the box things like cars and money are stupid. but this is the world that i was born into. 

and i dont like big trucks, lol, i think that theyre part of the big dick contest between men, mostly

i think its great when people are able to live without a car, and there's obviously the debate, would the world be better off without the current automobile? when i just typed that i answered yes followed by a but, then a no, then a yes.... lol. at the same time, if someone uses one more than when they *need* to, i dont think that they are guilty of anything. you could say the same thing about food and water. im talking within reason, not like chris christie or anything.

i love opening up debate and thought on topics that are not normally part of mainstream thought... but i just thought that the op was a little poorly worded(as was my response) and maybe a bit pretentious. "i think this and that is stupid" et cetera

and if you disagree youre a nazi socialist


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## The_Mop (Jan 30, 2013)

Xaios: Interesting what you say. And tbh, yeah, I know I'm apparently 'at risk' because i'm a relatively young male driver. Problem is, that people of a similar age, background, getting into similar cars and driving in similar areas got insured for a hell of a lot less than me and I honestly can't figure out why. Oh and, just so it's clear, I'm not /that/ young - passed at 21 (uni got in the way!) and only really started driving for myself at 22 because of premiums.

The other thing that's fucked up is that, in the UK, most insurers appear to be a law unto themselves. One of my mum's friends works for some big insurer, and apparently they technically and legally can wriggle their way out of a pay out in almost any situation - the only reason they pay out is because if they don't do so some of the time, they're techincally not operating as an insurance company. They've taken a lot of flak recently for charging insane amounts for young drivers in the UK. I saw someone get in the paper for saying they were quoted 31k - nothing on my 38k quote! The problem is that no UK insurance company actually comes up with a decent flexible solution, they just price people off the road. And then wonder why so many people drive without insurance.

There's a thing in the UK called 'Pass Plus' - it's like an extra qualification for driving. Truth is, it's useless. Most insurers pretend to offer discounts for it, but then they'll have a policy that because you're a young driver you get some really minimal token discount of significantly less than they're offering for pass plus, then claim they only offer one discount per premium to wriggle out of it.

But you make a good point. It's the idiots who go street racing and shit like that or the dumb arses who plain can't drive that run the premiums up, and the fraud. The worst thing is that there's very few mechanisms for me to 'prove' that I'm a safe driver other than just wait out a few years of expensive premiums and just build up a number of no claims years. And the alternative is to accept the 'Orwellian Regime' box to record absolutely bloody everything I'm doing and put limits on what I can and can't do


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## SirMyghin (Jan 30, 2013)

I went til 26 without a car and the convinience is worthwhile, as transit in Hamilton sucks.

As far as 'spending 10k for something that moves fast is stupid', might be a worthwhile statement if 10k was a sizable sum of money, but big picture, it is fuck all. 

My career requires driving, and often a vehicle, so I got my license in preparation for my career. If I had chosen a different job I would be driving my vehicle a whole lot more too.

I get many hours per week more life due to having a vehicle and driving. Going to the store 10k away no longer takes 2.5-3 hours.


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## Xaios (Jan 30, 2013)

Mop, out of curiosity, do you know exactly what kind of coverage your were being quoted for? As in, what were the coverage limits, and the individual premium being charged for each section of the coverage?


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## brynotherhino (Jan 30, 2013)

I would love to ride my bike to get around everywhere, but its frankly not safe to do so. There are a couple spots that I can go on training rides, but riding around except for certain times is just stupid and there are no bike lanes. Its dangerous enough being in my truck haha, but if there is a bust out here traffic thins out quite a bit, I will ride everywhere. Riding so stinking fun and enjoyable, wish I could ride everywhere!


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