# Who else uses their laptop to change patches automatically with midi?



## concertjunkie (Feb 2, 2015)

I've read about other bands doing this, and recently I figured out how to do it with out current gear setup. Immediately this made the band as a whole significantly tighter , no foot pedal dancing, just frickin' play!

Macbook Pro running Logic X
Drummer made click tracks to each of our songs, which is running to his headphones
In addition, theres a midi guitar track (for him only) also going to his headphones, for song reference

I also have backing tracks running out to external monitors, locked in on timing with drummer and with each song.

Using my interface (midisport 2x2) I have one midi cable running to my axe fx ultra , another to my other guitarists podhd 500x. When I need either guitar to change patches, I have a midi event set to send a signal, and it changes EXACTLY when I need the patch change. 

I can go into more detail on this if you all would like. I went through a few videos on it, and the people explaining tend to leave out one or two minor details that would have saved me time the first time figuring this shit out.

But holy hell! When we practiced to this, we could just play. It was beautiful. 

Curious if any of you guys are doing a similar thing?


Edit: I attached a screenshot to get a visual of what my project looks like. 

On top, I color coded the midi patch changes :
Red = Rhythm
Purple = Lead
Green = Clean

The CLICK track has all the click tracks for each song, made by the drummer, so he is locked in regardless of the tempo changes in the songs.
Track below is the midi guitar backing for the drummer's reference.
Below are the external backing tracks.


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## odibrom (Feb 2, 2015)

This sounds pretty interesting.
That is definitely not my situation, but might be some day in the future.

I have to ask, does those MIDI events also express in Wahs or swells? I mean, one could have the computer to change any parameter via MIDI, so... How does it feel to have a machine doing your expressiveness work? I am not saying it is wrong or whatever, just asking for curiosity.


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## concertjunkie (Feb 2, 2015)

odibrom said:


> This sounds pretty interesting.
> That is definitely not my situation, but might be some day in the future.
> 
> I have to ask, does those MIDI events also express in Wahs or swells? I mean, one could have the computer to change any parameter via MIDI, so... How does it feel to have a machine doing your expressiveness work? I am not saying it is wrong or whatever, just asking for curiosity.




I'm not 100% but I get the impression that you could do wahs or swells. IF I could program a "midi swell" into a set, I personally wouldn't. I would rather program the midi event to turn on my Wah/swell pedal and I do all the wah or swell expression. I feel it would be weird to use the machine to do your expressiveness for you. Instead I think using this technology to make your job easier/cleaner, in examples such as turning on/off pedals, keeping drummers locked in to a click track, keep band locked in with backing track, patch changes (especially!), etc. is just making the most with what you have.

If one would program expressiveness, isn't it similar to just having a backing track do everything, which would defeat the purpose of playing out live, wouldn't it? 

I love when bands play super tight, but even when one of my favorites have mistakes, it just humanizes them more for me.


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## buriedoutback (Feb 14, 2015)

Awesome. My bands NEEDS to do this. 
OP can you elaborate on how/what you send to the hd500 for patch changes. I use Reaper but I think it would be the same as logic. I normally just use 1 patch, and add an effect here or there, but in the course of a live set, it would be cool to switch patches too.
So the midisport 2x2 allows 2 independent midi signals to be sent? I'd like to do this for my other guitar player and I.


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## concertjunkie (Feb 15, 2015)

buriedoutback said:


> Awesome. My bands NEEDS to do this.
> OP can you elaborate on how/what you send to the hd500 for patch changes. I use Reaper but I think it would be the same as logic. I normally just use 1 patch, and add an effect here or there, but in the course of a live set, it would be cool to switch patches too.
> So the midisport 2x2 allows 2 independent midi signals to be sent? I'd like to do this for my other guitar player and I.





Absolutely! So the MidiSport 2x2 has 2x Midi IN and 2x Midi OUT. In logic/whatever daw you use , you create an External Instrument track (not sure the equivalent in Reaper) and choose the Midi Sport/Midi Interface OUt
In my Case, it has an A and B out, with numbers for each, which represents Midi out A and Midi out B, and the numbers are the Midi Channel it is sending the signal on.

The Axe Fx has an option to receive midi from any channel, Omnidirectional, so it didn't matter which midi channel I picked.

I didn't see a similar in the Pod. So on the Pod settings (i believe the I/O settings) , note what Midi Channel you are using (let's say it is 3 for this example). When you create the External Instrument, you would choose ex: MidiSport A - 3 (representing OUT A, channel 3), that way the Pod should receive whatever data the DAW is sending out.



I believe there is a way to send midi data to change just effects to turn on and off, but I haven't delved into that. What I did instead (which may be the lazy way) is this:

Let's say Patch 1 is rhythm, and Patch 2 is rhythm with effect, Patch 3 is lead, etc. I would make a separate patch with the effect ON, and another with it off. Considering you can store a lot of patches anyway , this should be a non issue.



So let's jump into your DAW for a moment to talk MIDI signals.

To make it easier, we set up the POD like this:

first patch on the bank (lowest number, A bank I believe) - clean
2nd patch - rhythm
3rd - lead

I asked my other guitarist to save his patches on the lowest numbered slots, so I could use the easier to remember midi event numbers


In Logic, you create an empty midi region, and go to list editor , and create an Event called "program change" . You want this lined up to a certain time to match when you want a program change. 
The first patch, clean, has the midi value/CC# 01. So when the track head runs across the midi event with "01" it sends that signal to the pod, changing the signal to the first patch, clean, the equivalent of stomping the A pedal or whatever it is on the Pod board.
Follow the same steps with CC value "02" for rhythm, "03" for lead. and so on.


If you see the attached picture in the beginning of this thread, you'll see the different Midi events , which I color coded for ease of use, for each guitar. 

I have our live set as a project file, so I just load it up and have markers for each song, with all the tempo changes in the project.


Hopefully that explanation helped! I would imagine if you can translate some of that from Logic lingo to Reaper you should be able to recreate the same results. 

Let me know if you have more questions on this! I know other people have made videos on this but IMO there were some minor steps that required me to tinker around until I got it working. So if you would like me to make a video for this in logic, I can do that, and I could test it out on reaper and make a video for that as well. This shit is super cool to me, especially in the effort to make our live show tighter, so I'm glad to help.


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## buriedoutback (Feb 15, 2015)

concertjunkie, Thank you very much. Very helpful. I'm going to dive into this soon.
I have some followup questions:

1. I notice a small delay when manually changing the patches back and forth on my hd500, are you (your other guitarist) noticing the delay when changing the patches via midi? afaik there is no delay on the axe-fx.

2. So when you load your project file for live use, do you have your entire set as 1 long 'song' with gaps between? That's what would make most sense to me (that is what your attached picture looks to be showing). Just pause the track between songs, or leave a large enough gap (or have a sample play) to tune and talk to the audience.

If you are up for doing demonstrative videos in logic and or reaper, I'm up for watching them!!

Thanks again!


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## concertjunkie (Feb 16, 2015)

buriedoutback said:


> concertjunkie, Thank you very much. Very helpful. I'm going to dive into this soon.
> I have some followup questions:
> 
> 1. I notice a small delay when manually changing the patches back and forth on my hd500, are you (your other guitarist) noticing the delay when changing the patches via midi? afaik there is no delay on the axe-fx.
> ...



In response:


1) the delay is minimal, and in most cases barely noticeable. The way I have the patch change occur is usually on the "1," and it doesn't interrupt the sound in a way that you would hear a skip (unless you had it change mid phrase, it may be a little more abrupt).

2) We have it as one long track, but currently, we just stop it during the gap and set it to the next song, instead of wait X minute(s) until the next song starts, that way we are more in control of when we start songs. I also always add the midi patch change events at the beginning of a song, to reset it to where it needs to be. That way if a song starts off with the clean patch, I don't accidentally have one guitarist on a rhythm patch.


If I still have some energy tonight I'll try to get through one, otherwise I will plan for sometime over next weekend.


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## buriedoutback (Feb 16, 2015)

Awesome Thanks! 

I found the advanced help guide (page 114) online that shows the individual footswitch buttons:

MIDI CC # Value Function
---------------------------------------
001 0 - 127 EXP-1 Pedal Assignment
002 0 - 127 EXP-2 Pedal Assignment
051 0 - 127 Toggles FS1 Assignment On/Off
052 0 - 127 Toggles FS2 Assignment On/Off
053 0 - 127 Toggles FS3 Assignment On/Off
054 0 - 127 Toggles FS4 Assignment On/Off
055 0 - 127 Toggles FS5 Assignment On/Off
056 0 - 127 Toggles FS6 Assignment On/Off
057 0 - 127 Toggles FS7 Assignment On/Off
058 0 - 127 Toggles FS8 Assignment On/Off
059 0 - 127 Toggles EXP Toe Switch Assignment On/Off
and 
069 0-63 = Off 64-127 = On Tuner Mode On/Off

so effects can be turned off and on. I'm going to order some midi cables and an interface and get started on this!

\m/


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## concertjunkie (Feb 16, 2015)

buriedoutback said:


> Awesome Thanks!
> 
> I found the advanced help guide (page 114) online that shows the individual footswitch buttons:
> 
> ...



Cool! I figured it could be done, but in our current scenario, patch changes does everything we need.




Just finished a video for both logic and reaper, but I'll probably upload the Reaper version first so you can see it. I'm a bit tired so I may have rambled and dragged on sometimes, but it wasn't too hard once I got it figured out!

uploading video now


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Feb 16, 2015)

In theory, you can turn effects on/off, and change patches with the Line 6 gear without having to enter the events into the DAW manually. You can set up the track as you did, then actually play along with it, change your presets, turn effects on/off, and the DAW will record all of these changes.

Then, if you need to you can go back into the editor and move the event to exactly where it needs to be according to the location in the song where it should occur. You may have recorded it and missed the cue by miliseconds, or need to compensate for the small gap in time that often occurs with Midi Program Changes on some units like the PODs. The effects on/off or linked to continuous controllers, and each FS has a controller number associated with it, within that controller number is a value from either 0-127 or 1-128, depending on what unit you are using.


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## concertjunkie (Feb 16, 2015)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> In theory, you can turn effects on/off, and change patches with the Line 6 gear without having to enter the events into the DAW manually. You can set up the track as you did, then actually play along with it, change your presets, turn effects on/off, and the DAW will record all of these changes.
> 
> Then, if you need to you can go back into the editor and move the event to exactly where it needs to be according to the location in the song where it should occur. You may have recorded it and missed the cue by miliseconds, or need to compensate for the small gap in time that often occurs with Midi Program Changes on some units like the PODs. The effects on/off or linked to continuous controllers, and each FS has a controller number associated with it, within that controller number is a value from either 0-127 or 1-128, depending on what unit you are using.




That does make sense, thanks for pointing that out. If the DAW can send out MIDI you can set it to read it as well and make micro adjustments to fine tune it.


YouTube

Here is the video for using reaper. Was a bit tired making it, so ignore my rambling and my poor use of iPhone recording  bu this should be enough to get it working for you.
I don't believe I mentioned in the video that of you notice the little tick marks on the midi chunk, that tick on the timeline is where the midi program chance (in this case patch change) occurs. Play around to test so you can get it locked down to where you need it to change


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Feb 16, 2015)

For a more seamless change between clean/crunch, you can create a "morph" preset such as I have uploaded to Custom Tone. 

It uses a dual tone, then incorporates the expression pedal to rock forward to crunch, or back to the heel for clean. Using FS4, I also have a solo boost + delay, so it can serve all three purposes if you don't mind a bit of a stripped back DSP load.

This way, instead of changing presets, you only change values of CC's within the preset, and the delay of switching is no longer an issue.


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## concertjunkie (Feb 16, 2015)

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> For a more seamless change between clean/crunch, you can create a "morph" preset such as I have uploaded to Custom Tone.
> 
> It uses a dual tone, then incorporates the expression pedal to rock forward to crunch, or back to the heel for clean. Using FS4, I also have a solo boost + delay, so it can serve all three purposes if you don't mind a bit of a stripped back DSP load.
> 
> This way, instead of changing presets, you only change values of CC's within the preset, and the delay of switching is no longer an issue.



That's a pretty cool approach. For the application in my band (so far), the switching is seamless and isn't an issue, doesn't sound awkward. 

If newer material calls for this, I will set it up that way.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Feb 16, 2015)

I like it for build ups and break downs. You can do so instantly by just stepping on the pedal to the extreme of its value, or you can do so slowly & dynamically kind of like a crossfade on a track.

It does use up some DSP as I have the comp on the clean amp with some verb, and the crunch/lead is pretty straight forward with the boost + delay & such, but normally when I make this type of transition, my crunch is pretty straightforward also, maybe some chorus here or there.


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## buriedoutback (Feb 16, 2015)

Thanks for posting the video concertjunkie, I'll check it out when i get home (yup i read SS.Org at work to stave off boredom, but youtube is blocked).

I ordered the M Audio Midisport 1x1 USB Midi Interface and a 15ft midi cable. Hopefully I'll have it in a week or so. My other guitar player will probably want to do this too, but he can order his own gear.

Great advice TonyFlyingSquirrel. Thank you.

concertjunkie, I wonder if you could give some detail on how you run/output your clicks/audio? 

Once up and running, we'll use my macbook with a 1/8 TRS(stereo) cable that to splits to 2 TS 1/4 cables (L side is clicks, R side is strings/piano). I'll be putting the click side into a behringer headphone amp, and the other into a DI/PA. Eventually I will buy a Jamhub so we can each have our own personal mix and in-ear-monitors.


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## concertjunkie (Feb 16, 2015)

buriedoutback said:


> Thanks for posting the video concertjunkie, I'll check it out when i get home (yup i read SS.Org at work to stave off boredom, but youtube is blocked).
> 
> I ordered the M Audio Midisport 1x1 USB Midi Interface and a 15ft midi cable. Hopefully I'll have it in a week or so. My other guitar player will probably want to do this too, but he can order his own gear.
> 
> ...



No problem!

If both you and your guitarist are going to use this midi function, why not go for the midisport 2x2? That way you can send out 2 midi signals from one usb device, instead of two usb devices. 

Will the jam hub do everything you need it to, or would a mixer be better for your setup?

Regarding the clicks/backing, I have a Scarlett Focusrite 6i6 interface plugged in to my Macbook Pro. Output 1 goes to my drummer's headphones, which contains clicks and a lower volume backing track for reference. Output 2 goes out to FOH/speaker to play backing tracks only.

In my DAW, i have a click and backing track set to Output1, instead of Stereo Output. This is for the drummer only.

Below this I have several tracks for backing tracks, which are going to Output 2 , for FOH only.

I would imagine as long as your interface had at least 2 outputs, you could do it this way.


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## buriedoutback (Feb 16, 2015)

I'm not sure my other guitar player will want to have the switching done for him. He uses a lot of wah and plays leads all the time, so it might now work for him. We'll see what he says when mine is hooked up. 

The jamhub is like 5 mixers in one, giving each member the ability to turn up or down the other members. From what I can see, it would work awesome for in-ear-monitors. Its $400 so we'll try the $25 headphone amp idea first. 

I'm trying to avoid having to use an interface (mostly because I don't have one) and just use a stereo cable split into left and right. I guess I'll see how it works out, and grab an interface if needed. 

Do you have any pics of you guys jamming/playing live? I'd love to see how your setup looks on stage or in your jamspace.


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## concertjunkie (Feb 17, 2015)

buriedoutback said:


> I'm not sure my other guitar player will want to have the switching done for him. He uses a lot of wah and plays leads all the time, so it might now work for him. We'll see what he says when mine is hooked up.
> 
> The jamhub is like 5 mixers in one, giving each member the ability to turn up or down the other members. From what I can see, it would work awesome for in-ear-monitors. Its $400 so we'll try the $25 headphone amp idea first.
> 
> ...



Jam Room Setup - Album on Imgur

Here is an album with a few pics from our setup, just highlighting the main elements and explanations with each picture.
Let me know if you want to know more


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## buriedoutback (Feb 21, 2015)

concertjunkie, great video and nice pics! thanks very much.
Are you happy with your QSC GX5 Power Amp and vader 212? I used to have a rocktron velocity 300 going into a mesa oversized 412. It worked great but was super heavy to move around (even with the wheels).


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## concertjunkie (Feb 24, 2015)

buriedoutback said:


> concertjunkie, great video and nice pics! thanks very much.
> Are you happy with your QSC GX5 Power Amp and vader 212? I used to have a rocktron velocity 300 going into a mesa oversized 412. It worked great but was super heavy to move around (even with the wheels).



oh yes! I am super pleased with the vader and qsc. The vader handles metal VERY well, but also cleans and nondistorted tones impressively! I also love that the vader can be comfortably carried by one person, as it isn't too heavy. 
I used to have a carvin power amp but it shit out on me before i replaced it with the qsc. no complaints with the Qsc, it does the job

by the way, did the reaper video help you understand how to replicate the midi changing? I wasn't too familiar with it prior to the video but I managed to figure out what i needed to do once i played around with it.


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## buriedoutback (Feb 24, 2015)

concertjunkie said:


> oh yes! I am super pleased with the vader and qsc. The vader handles metal VERY well, but also cleans and nondistorted tones impressively! I also love that the vader can be comfortably carried by one person, as it isn't too heavy.
> I used to have a carvin power amp but it shit out on me before i replaced it with the qsc. no complaints with the Qsc, it does the job
> 
> by the way, did the reaper video help you understand how to replicate the midi changing? I wasn't too familiar with it prior to the video but I managed to figure out what i needed to do once i played around with it.



That's good to hear. I don't think I've ever seen a bad review of a vader cab. I run 2 alto 15inch powered speakers (in stereo) and find sometimes I don't have enough volume. I think if I add some mids to my live tone, it would fix that.

I havn't received my midi thing yet, so I havn't tried out what your video outlines, but I watched it a couple times and it definitely makes sense on how it would work. I hope to receive the gear this week as I'm starting days off tomorrow.


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## concertjunkie (Feb 24, 2015)

buriedoutback said:


> That's good to hear. I don't think I've ever seen a bad review of a vader cab. I run 2 alto 15inch powered speakers (in stereo) and find sometimes I don't have enough volume. I think if I add some mids to my live tone, it would fix that.
> 
> I havn't received my midi thing yet, so I havn't tried out what your video outlines, but I watched it a couple times and it definitely makes sense on how it would work. I hope to receive the gear this week as I'm starting days off tomorrow.




Cool! I haven't tried powered speakers, but the vader definitely gets loud enough and the mids pierce through nicely . Let me know if you have questions or need help with the setup when you get the equipment!


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## buriedoutback (Feb 24, 2015)

concertjunkie said:


> Cool! I haven't tried powered speakers, but the vader definitely gets loud enough and the mids pierce through nicely . Let me know if you have questions or need help with the setup when you get the equipment!



I will, thanks very much! 

ps. I talked to my other guitar player and he has no interest in running the midi setup. He likes total control, and he really only adds wah and a little ring modulator so he'll stay with a manual setup.

I'm looking forward to just playing/singing and letting my macbook control everything. I think it will allow me to play more complex or dynamic stuff!

I have another question; I realize you just started using this setup, but are any of your band members finding they are missing out by not having the click track in their ear?
I tried running a click off my phone with 1 side going to my drummers ear and the other side (strings/piano) going to the PA, and my other guitar player complained about not having the click in his ear too.
Personally I didn't feel the need to have the click, I just follow my drummer.
If I buy a JamHub, we'll all have custom mixes of everything, I just wonder if you or your other band mates want/miss the click?


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## concertjunkie (Feb 25, 2015)

buriedoutback said:


> I will, thanks very much!
> 
> ps. I talked to my other guitar player and he has no interest in running the midi setup. He likes total control, and he really only adds wah and a little ring modulator so he'll stay with a manual setup.
> 
> ...




So far, no, we are all super solid without clicks in our ears. Our drummer does a great job of keeping in time anyway, so as long as he's on it, we are fine listening to him. Eventually as time+money allows, I would like to invest in a wireless IEM (in ear monitor) setup for each band member to kick it up a notch . Right now the drummer feels a little less connected to us since he cant hear us as much as the click, so I will set up to where he can hear live guitars/bass in his mix instead of guitar pro or prerecorded parts of our songs for refere nce


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## buriedoutback (Mar 1, 2015)

Well having my macbook switch patches/effects for me is pretty cool!! It took a little tweaking to figure out what numbers apply to what patch, but it is working!
Thanks again for your help and for starting this thread!

Next step is implementing the midi changes into our setlist. Luckily we finished our recordings for the album not long ago, so the click tracks and synth/strings/piano tracks are ready to go.

\m/


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## concertjunkie (Mar 2, 2015)

buriedoutback said:


> Well having my macbook switch patches/effects for me is pretty cool!! It took a little tweaking to figure out what numbers apply to what patch, but it is working!
> Thanks again for your help and for starting this thread!
> 
> Next step is implementing the midi changes into our setlist. Luckily we finished our recordings for the album not long ago, so the click tracks and synth/strings/piano tracks are ready to go.
> ...



.... yeah! No problem, glad to hear you got it working!


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## NixerX (Mar 10, 2015)

I do this in my band. Its awesome.


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## buriedoutback (Mar 10, 2015)

NixerX said:


> I do this in my band. Its awesome.



Which DAW/modeler are you using?

I'm going to try to do a HD500 video to compliment the video posted earlier with patch and effect changes.


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## TubeOrgasmer (Apr 9, 2015)

Same here, I also built a MIDI stompbox switcher for my pedals that also changes the channel on my amp. Playing live has never been so easy and sounded so good.


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## pow404 (Apr 13, 2015)

I am really keen on this idea, I have a laptop which I will practically dedicate this to, only need an interface for backing/clicks and a midi interface.

Although I can see this going very wrong. Anyone have any disaster stories with this method? Always thought it would be cool to try out, but never really have because I can see it working perfectly until you play a show then everything going haywire haha.


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## concertjunkie (Apr 18, 2015)

pow404 said:


> I am really keen on this idea, I have a laptop which I will practically dedicate this to, only need an interface for backing/clicks and a midi interface.
> 
> Although I can see this going very wrong. Anyone have any disaster stories with this method? Always thought it would be cool to try out, but never really have because I can see it working perfectly until you play a show then everything going haywire haha.




So far it has been flawless but I am prepared for the worst... If all else fails i have a Behringer FCB1010 with Eureka chip, so if the laptop ....s out (I have a backup SSD drive just in case!) then I can use the foot pedal to get through the rest of the set

I feel if you go the SSD route with a fresh operating system dedicated only to the Live stuff (on a mac it should be fine with other stuff, PC's have a lot more that can go wrong. Being in the IT field for 10+ years, I've seen this!) then you can rule out .... like buggy drivers and such.


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