# WTF is this sh*t?



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

Ya know..this whole rise of "ultra technical 1292 string guitar death metal" is just getting seriously out of hand. What in the good name of fuck is this shit? This has got to be some of the most non-musical "music" I've ever heard. These kids need to stop hanging out on forums and listen to some SRV, Jimi Hendrix, Suffocation, Morbid Angel, and a few other bands. This sounds like a Nintendo on crack..and the bassist.........ugh..somebody go help those kids.









Do people even remember what riffs and song structures are? Is the goal now to just have a million strings on a guitar and/or bass so you can cram as many notes in to each second of a song as your fingers will allow to the point that you couldn't even hum the songs because they make little to no sense and fail to be interesting to anyone besides the "moar because moar" crowd?

And just to wash all that nonsense from your ears..here.


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## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

Wow, it's like an entire discography of John Petrucci's second solo on "Stream Of Consciousness"


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## Lon (Jul 7, 2010)

i actually like it... its the same wave as braindrill and maybe beneath the massacre... for me its just the opposite of punk, there you have 3 powerchors in a song, here its...yeah, more ^^


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## ittoa666 (Jul 7, 2010)

Doesn't bother me too much, but I wouldn't go out of my way to listen to it.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 7, 2010)

How dare those young wippersnappers make music they enjoy! They should make music I enjoy. Fucking assholes.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> How dare those young wippersnappers make music they enjoy! They should make music I enjoy. Fucking assholes.



Just think..the same could be said for Brokencyde...


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## Randy (Jul 7, 2010)

The 'bass' playing was friggin' insane.


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## Inazone (Jul 7, 2010)

For real. Friends of mine are always saying "you'll love this band" and go so far as to burn me a CD of some so-called technical death metal WANKING that's as offensive to my ears as a lot of `80s glam rock whammy bar abuse. It's like there is this rebellion against any sort of traditional song structure or even the slightest influence of melody.

Gotta have dynamics. Peaks and valleys, people! I miss the good ol' days when "heavy" was a product of awesome riffs and interplay between musicians, not tuning down as low as possible and cramming everything together, compressed to hell to get any sort of tightness.


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## Necrophagist777 (Jul 7, 2010)

Yea it's not really cup of tea either, I like me some groove in my tech death/death metal (Dying Fetus etc.), but seriously no reason to bash on them. I'd never wanna play that type of stuff but they can so more power to em


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## GeoMantic (Jul 7, 2010)

While stuff like that isn't exactly my favorite thing in the world, 

I still prefer that to the pentatonic "let me make a retarded face everytime I bend a note" 12 bar blues stuff that makes 12 year old kids and 40 year old men think that they don't ever need to improve.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 7, 2010)

Inazone said:


> Gotta have dynamics. Peaks and valleys, people! I miss the good ol' days when "heavy" was a product of awesome riffs and interplay between musicians, not tuning down as low as possible and cramming everything together, compressed to hell to get any sort of tightness.



The thing is, there's plenty of bands out there that are doing just that. It's just, as you pointed out "old". While I'm not saying I enjoy this style of music, I can see why there are those out there that would. 

After hearing bands like Cannibal Corpse, Suffocation, Morbid Angel, Nile, Hate Eternal, etc. for decades as well as the thousands of bands they influenced and who copy them, I can see how something COMPLETELY different would be enticing. 

Different strokes for different folks, and the existence of this music isn't going to make the music you enjoy disappear by default.


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## Esp Griffyn (Jul 7, 2010)

I completely agree with Drakkar, death metal is definitely shooting off in a tangent that is heading in a bad direction.

Tech style riffing can be ok when used in moderation, for example, "Seven", "Epitaph" and "Onset of putrefaction" by Necrophagist, but even that band gets it wrong far more often than they get it right. If death metal has to be techy, then newer bands should look towards Hate Eternal - techy parts married with strong, heavy rhythms, actual song structures and memorable riffs and lines, not just spazzc0re shite.


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## ittoa666 (Jul 7, 2010)

I'll just leave this here.


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## rectifryer (Jul 7, 2010)

Someones gotta do it. 

But it does sound mindless at best. I am happy they are paying attention to music theory but that is a futile effort since they are changing modes continuously making their music sound like nothing. 

Atleast meshuggah does that on purpose.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

Esp Griffyn said:


> I completely agree with Drakkar, death metal is definitely shooting off in a tangent that is heading in a bad direction.
> 
> Tech style riffing can be ok when used in moderation, for example, "Seven", "Epitaph" and "Onset of putrefaction" by Necrophagist, but even that band gets it wrong far more often than they get it right. If death metal has to be techy, then newer bands should look towards Hate Eternal - techy parts married with strong, heavy rhythms, actual song structures and memorable riffs and lines, not just spazzc0re shite.


I agree. Nothing wrong with being out there on guitar but a song is a song. The most memorable riffs of all time are all stuff that's simple..stuff you can hum..and stuff that's appreciated not just by tech-heads and musicians, but by everyone. Technicality doesn't equal good songwriting and good songwriting doesn't equal technicality. When people are "too smart for their own good" involving songs and it becomes a non-memorable emotionless blur. Emotion, feel, and what people take from a riff is what makes a song great.



ittoa666 said:


> I'll just leave this here.




Actually I'd consider this a good example of a technical type song done right. You can hum it, follow along, and it's still trippy.


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## Triple7 (Jul 7, 2010)

Esp Griffyn said:


> I completely agree with Drakkar, death metal is definitely shooting off in a tangent that is heading in a bad direction.
> 
> Tech style riffing can be ok when used in moderation, for example, "Seven", "Epitaph" and "Onset of putrefaction" by Necrophagist, but even that band gets it wrong far more often than they get it right. If death metal has to be techy, then newer bands should look towards Hate Eternal - techy parts married with strong, heavy rhythms, actual song structures and memorable riffs and lines, not just spazzc0re shite.


 



I can't get into music that is over the top tech death, I need some memorable grooves or riffs, some melody even.


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## Joose (Jul 7, 2010)

I cannot stand this shit. Props for having to skills to play all that. But, that shit just ain't listenable to me.

This "Uber-Tech-Death-Super-Nintendo" music is taking over all that is well thought out and heartfelt.


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## Razzy (Jul 7, 2010)

WTF is right! The bass is not supposed to have more strings than the guitar! That guy needs an 11 string guitar!


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 7, 2010)

You have to admit, that bassist is incredible.


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## ittoa666 (Jul 7, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> You have to admit, that bassist is incredible.



 I appreciate the technique more than the music.


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## Ricky_Gallows (Jul 7, 2010)

Lon said:


> i actually like it... its the same wave as braindrill and maybe beneath the massacre... for me its just the opposite of punk, there you have 3 powerchors in a song, here its...yeah, more ^^



 I couldn't listen to it everyday. Its def a band I'd be like "hey look what i found!"

but I agree with you.


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## AliceAxe (Jul 7, 2010)

ittoa666 said:


> I'll just leave this here.






that sounds very 'mechanical'

a lot of those riff in the first post reminds me of 'flight of the bumble bee' it has that same sort of sound.


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## NaYoN (Jul 7, 2010)

To OP:

You know, Viraemia are kind of a respected band in some circles, and they can play the fuck out of their instruments. I personally don't like them, but the way your post is worded makes you sound like an old man disapproving something that is new out of fear of change; or a scene kid who listens to Attack Attack! hating on old school death metal. You may not like the music, but at least appreciate their playing or something. And the number of strings in your instrument does not make you better or worse. There are awful bands that use 6,7,8 strings.

At least they know how to play, and understand theory, unlike most recent bands who go bree bree breakdown keyboard.

I don't like Viraemia, but the way your post and thread title is worded really ticked me off.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

Inazone said:


> For real. Friends of mine are always saying "you'll love this band" and go so far as to burn me a CD of some so-called technical death metal WANKING that's as offensive to my ears as a lot of `80s glam rock whammy bar abuse. It's like there is this rebellion against any sort of traditional song structure or even the slightest influence of melody.
> 
> Gotta have dynamics. Peaks and valleys, people! I miss the good ol' days when "heavy" was a product of awesome riffs and interplay between musicians, not tuning down as low as possible and cramming everything together, compressed to hell to get any sort of tightness.


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## John_Strychnine (Jul 7, 2010)

In your reality, that nile song is a song, in my reality it sounds like a colaboration of badly excuted riffs that have been badly organised... BUT that doesn't mean i don't appreciate what they are doing. 

Music doesn't have a formula, it can be to the depths of your imagination, and further. Let everyone do what they want to do and then like what you want to like!

I do completely agree with you about simple is memorable and it gives others the opportunity to enjoy it to, but not everyone writes for other people, some people write for themselves. 

Music is a language, it's a way of speaking, some people speak faster, some people speak more pronouned, some speak in monotone etc. If everything was the same, there wouldn't be room for expansion. 

This crazy technical stuff will probably open a doorway for something you will enjoy.


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## AxeHappy (Jul 7, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Emotion, feel, and what people take from a riff is what makes a song great.



And emotion is completely and utterly subjective. So, is feel. You can't say, "There's no feeling in this so it sucks." It just doesn't work. 

I don't enjoy music like this at all. But I'm sure that somebody out there is getting something out of it. 

Or maybe the musician's are just having fun express themselves technically. Or maybe music like this isn't about feeling or whatever but is more about energy and intensity. Nothing wrong with that either. Not everything needs to be or even should be dripping with emotion.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

Josh Geohagan said:


> While stuff like that isn't exactly my favorite thing in the world,
> 
> I still prefer that to the pentatonic "let me make a retarded face everytime I bend a note" 12 bar blues stuff that makes 12 year old kids and 40 year old men think that they don't ever need to improve.


 
nothing wrong w/ pentatonics either... there's a member here, dhalif. ask him about the pentatonics...


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

AxeHappy said:


> And emotion is completely and utterly subjective. So, is feel. You can't say, "There's no feeling in this so it sucks." It just doesn't work.
> 
> I don't enjoy music like this at all. But I'm sure that somebody out there is getting something out of it.
> 
> Or maybe the musician's are just having fun express themselves technically. Or maybe music like this isn't about feeling or whatever but is more about energy and intensity. Nothing wrong with that either. Not everything needs to be or even should be dripping with emotion.


 
not this again...


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## suffo20 (Jul 7, 2010)

I say save the solo work for the solos. I dont mind putting or listening to songs that have those things in there every now and then but not constantly. I used to want to play that all the time but now im going back to my roots and writing stuff that is meaningful and not just a blur. I want the crowd to mosh when I play my songs on stage. I want the people in the crowd that r not musicians to understand whats going on musically. Ill throw in some sweeps and do lead lines within the rythymic structure within the song here and there but its got to flow and not do it constantly.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> not this again...


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

I hate the discussion of feeling...

*One's* inability to feel something does not denote an inherent absence of "feeling"...

End of story

Furthermore, unless you're reading the artist(s)'s thought process as you listen to the music you can neither confirm nor deny the conveyance of the "feeling" in question. Even if such a scenario *were* possible the determination of whether or not the appropriate feelings were conveyed accurately is still completely subjective.


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## Joose (Jul 7, 2010)

I was gonna make a long post about it, but I just don't feel like it right now.

Simply put... ALL music should be full of emotion. Whatever emotion that is. Why even play music if you just base everything you do off scales and theory? That's more like work, as opposed to doing what you love.

$0.02


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## rectifryer (Jul 7, 2010)

LOL I love music forums. Every argument ends up with the same conclusion: "DUDE! Its all subjective anyways!" "We're _all_ right!"

Fuck that. There are clear lines of taste that are being abused here. They're great players but shitty artists. If I wanted a painter to capture a picture I would just fucking buy a camera.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 7, 2010)

Joose said:


> I was gonna make a long post about it, but I just don't feel like it right now.
> 
> Simply put... ALL music should be full of emotion. Whatever emotion that is. Why even play music if you just base everything you do off scales and theory? That's more like work, as opposed to doing what you love.
> 
> $0.02



Unless you love theory. 

Just saying.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Unless you love theory.
> 
> Just saying.



I love music, period. I don't listen to theory, I listen to music. I can see how some people would enjoy this..I'm just not one of them.


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## Joose (Jul 7, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Unless you love theory.
> 
> Just saying.



I absolutely cannot argue with that. Well played, sir.

Myself, I just love music. Fuck theory dependency, basing your solo off of chords and scales. Nah, play what sounds good. (Not that I never use theory and shit, but it doesn't run my music ya know?)


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

since when are loving theory and loving music mutually exclusive? it seems everyone is trying to make clear divides in something that's abstract. just let it be...

nothing against you, Drak, but starting a thread on a negative note (like bashing someone's playing style) the way you did can only lead to a flame war no matter how objectively the majority of the forum members *try* to be about it. moreover, as has been stated already, the conclusion is always the same. opinions are like assholes...


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## willyman101 (Jul 7, 2010)

Josh Geohagan said:


> While stuff like that isn't exactly my favorite thing in the world,
> 
> I still prefer that to the pentatonic "let me make a retarded face everytime I bend a note" 12 bar blues stuff that makes 12 year old kids and 40 year old men think that they don't ever need to improve.



This is annoyingly ignorant; it's just that attitude that metalheads have towards the blues where they think it's simple and just get completely the wrong idea. Yeah, plenty of bluesmen slate shred for lacking 'emotion' but I assure you the blues is a lot more complex than you think. There are plenty of shit blues players out there, but there's guys like the aforementioned SRV who are just mind blowing, I'd take him over any shredder any day of the week because more often than not it's a million times more tasteful. And really, a big bend is more of a cause to make a face than sweeping like crazy...

Also since when are most 12 year olds into blues?

I'm gonna add that the band in those vids are abysmal. Who could possibly want to listen to that? I genuinely can't imagine how someone can listen and go "hmm, this is great! I'm going to listen to this on the bus!" It's not even subjective really, this stuff is just straight up turd.


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## rectifryer (Jul 7, 2010)

Nuhn uh! Thats subjective and anecdotal!^^ Bwhahahaha this entire thread is pointless.

I actually agree with you, JSYK. There has been some truth to every argument so far...


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## Fred (Jul 7, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> fail to be interesting to anyone besides the "moar because moar" crowd?



You somewhat ruined your argument there... What on earth is the problem if other people are digging on this kind of stuff? Hell, even if no-one apart from the band is digging on it, as long as the band are then who cares? Why is your dislike of the music they're creating somehow more important then the enjoyment they get from making it? I don't really enjoy this stuff either, other than very tenuously through an appreciation of the technical talent involved in playing it.

Why aren't you making similar posts about other kinds of music which you feel equally strongly disinclined towards? The fact that this stuff might be more closely related to a preferred genre of yours than, say, Brokencyde, is irrelevant unless you have some bizarrely vain fear that the existence of such music will somehow affect your carefully-acquired image as a metalhead or similar.

What gives you the sense of inflated self-importance that makes you feel compelled to tell these people what kind of music they should listen to? Hell, for all you know, their influences might be far more diverse than your narrow mind could possibly conceive. As far as I can see it, these guys don't need help - they seem to be doing just fine on their own. I think they'd be far more within their rights to suggest you get some help to realise that actually your opinions might not be gospel, God forbid.

I don't mean a personal attack, I'm just trying to point out the fallacies to your argument. Well, that's unfair, it's not an argument, it's a bizarrely vehement attack on a kind of music that you could very easily ignore the existence of and probably save yourself a fair amount of stress in doing so. As you yourself said,



DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I can see how some people would enjoy this..I'm just not one of them.



No, you're not, but why rag on the people who make or enjoy this music just because of that? In doing so you're not putting yourself in any better light than the cretins of YouTube who feel compelled to remind anyone who listens to something they feel no warmth towards that "ur ghey becoz this band is ghey becoz their fags".

And yeah, these arguments tend to descend into people reminding other people of the pitfalls of subjectivity, because a lot of us are fairly consistently amazed at how often people forget that you need some semblance of an argument outside of "I don't like this because it sucks and it sucks because it's not in line with my taste" to avoid meaningless circularity.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

willyman101 said:


> This is annoyingly ignorant; it's just that attitude that metalheads have towards the blues where they think it's simple and just get completely the wrong idea. Yeah, plenty of bluesmen slate shred for lacking 'emotion' but I assure you the blues is a lot more complex than you think. There are plenty of shit blues players out there, but there's guys like the aforementioned SRV who are just mind blowing, I'd take him over any shredder any day of the week because more often than not it's a million times more tasteful. And really, a big bend is more of a cause to make a face than sweeping like crazy...
> 
> Also since when are most 12 year olds into blues?


 
the focus changes as you change musical styles. some ppl choose to ignore this... ask any blues-bashing metalhead to WRITE a blues song... 

and yes... that comment was specific to the metalheads who choose to haphazardly bash other styles of music for not being as "difficult" as if that's the goal behind music in general. (i like metal and many of my friends are metalheads...)


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## Necris (Jul 7, 2010)

I actually own this bands E.P., I'll throw it in now and again because when it isn't tedious its fun to listen to. It's not my favorite album/EP/whatever by any means, but I can still find certain parts of it that I enjoy.

On a side note, I feel the need to administer some Morbid Angel worship:


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## Ckackley (Jul 7, 2010)

The pendulum swings .... Remember "Grunge" ? we're a the opposite end of the spectrum now. Eventually it'll swing back and it won't be cool to really play your guitar anymore. Back and forth. It seems the really good music that melds feeling and technique comes in the in between swings.


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## Rashputin (Jul 7, 2010)

Inazone said:


> For real. Friends of mine are always saying "you'll love this band" and go so far as to burn me a CD of some so-called technical death metal WANKING that's as offensive to my ears as a lot of `80s glam rock whammy bar abuse. It's like there is this rebellion against any sort of traditional song structure or even the slightest influence of melody.
> 
> Gotta have dynamics. Peaks and valleys, people! I miss the good ol' days when "heavy" was a product of awesome riffs and interplay between musicians, not tuning down as low as possible and cramming everything together, compressed to hell to get any sort of tightness.



Yes.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

Konfyouzd liked [some] grunge


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> since when are loving theory and loving music mutually exclusive? it seems everyone is trying to make clear divides in something that's abstract. just let it be...



And there is no divde. Honestly I think some people are just naturally musically inclined, and some people aren't. Those that aren't might lean a little more towards theory and less about feel..only some people (to which this thread is about) take a faaaar hard turn into theory, and seem to be unable to connect musically apart from what looks good on paper. These kinds of people leave out what's, in my opinion, the most important trait for musicians and guitarists.


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## rectifryer (Jul 7, 2010)

Fred said:


> And yeah, these arguments tend to descend into people reminding other people of the pitfalls of subjectivity, because a lot of us are fairly consistently amazed at how often people forget that you need some semblance of an argument outside of "I don't like this because it sucks and it sucks because it's not in line with my taste" to avoid meaningless circularity.


Absolutely.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> And there is no divde. Honestly I think some people are just naturally musically inclined, and some people aren't. Those that aren't might lean a little more towards theory and less about feel..only some people (to which this thread is about) take a faaaar hard turn into theory, and seem to be unable to connect musically apart from what looks good on paper. These kinds of people leave out what's, in my opinion, the most important trait for musicians and guitarists.


 
So if I read that correctly you're arguing that these ppl are more qualified as "fretboard technicians" than actual "musicians".


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> So if I read that correctly you're arguing that these ppl are more qualified as "fretboard technicians" than actual "musicians".



Depends on your definition of a musician. Technically they are musicians and I wouldn't call them anything less, however to me they miss what makes a musician good.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 7, 2010)

I personally don't care what people choose to do in music.

I get on with what I want to do and I'm quite happy for them to do the same.


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## troyguitar (Jul 7, 2010)

Here's what I don't understand:

Why is it cool to be so awesomely technical on guitar, bass, drums, keys but the only cool thing to do on vox is go UGHGGHGHH RAAAAAAWWW GRRR UUUHHHH?

Learn to fucking sing asshole, you're dragging your whole band down.

If you're going to play guitar like a 21st century cyborg, why have a caveman vocalist? It doesn't fit the music at all in theory or in practice.


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## Randy (Jul 7, 2010)

The technical aspect of the music didn't bother me, but the note choices clashed in a way I found unpleasant.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> Here's what I don't understand:
> 
> Why is it cool to be so awesomely technical on guitar, bass, drums, keys but the only cool thing to do on vox is go UGHGGHGHH RAAAAAAWWW GRRR UUUHHHH?
> 
> ...


 
Bridging the gap from prehistoric-school to new school...?  

*Konfyouzd is not opposed to growled vocals


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## guitareben (Jul 7, 2010)

Thats a bass(ist)?!?!?!?!??!


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## guitareben (Jul 7, 2010)

AxeHappy said:


> And emotion is completely and utterly subjective. So, is feel. You can't say, "There's no feeling in this so it sucks." It just doesn't work.
> 
> I don't enjoy music like this at all. But I'm sure that somebody out there is getting something out of it.
> 
> Or maybe the musician's are just having fun express themselves technically. Or maybe music like this isn't about feeling or whatever but is more about energy and intensity. Nothing wrong with that either. Not everything needs to be or even should be dripping with emotion.



This. 


Music is subjective


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## GeoMantic (Jul 7, 2010)

willyman101 said:


> This is annoyingly ignorant; it's just that attitude that metalheads have towards the blues where they think it's simple and just get completely the wrong idea. Yeah, plenty of bluesmen slate shred for lacking 'emotion' but I assure you the blues is a lot more complex than you think. There are plenty of shit blues players out there, but there's guys like the aforementioned SRV who are just mind blowing, I'd take him over any shredder any day of the week because more often than not it's a million times more tasteful. And really, a big bend is more of a cause to make a face than sweeping like crazy...
> 
> Also since when are most 12 year olds into blues?
> 
> I'm gonna add that the band in those vids are abysmal. Who could possibly want to listen to that? I genuinely can't imagine how someone can listen and go "hmm, this is great! I'm going to listen to this on the bus!" It's not even subjective really, this stuff is just straight up turd.



I didn't say I liked this over the top tech-death stuff. I really don't. I find it impressive, but certainly not interesting.

Absolutely nowhere in my post did I say that I disliked blues. I didn't even say that I disliked Pentatonic scales. I stated that this technical style of music was as boring to me as the people that abuse the "emotion/feeling" styles. 

I adore SRV, Clapton, Eric Johnson, BB King, etc. but I am also very shred influenced. I'm a big fan of Steve Vai, Jeff Loomis, Jason Becker, etc.

Nothing is wrong with playing slow, or fast respectively, but there is absolutely something wrong with purposely avoiding either spectrum of technicality for the sake of "emotion" or not.

It's disgusting when people make assumptions on musical tastes just because they are quick to defend their viewpoint, with little regard to a statements actual meaning.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

Josh Geohagan said:


> I stated that this technical style of music was as boring to me as the people that abuse the "emotion/feeling" styles.


 
Fair enough


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## chaosxcomplex (Jul 7, 2010)

HAHAHAHAAH this is some funny reading...

@Drak: There are still plenty of bands out there doing the kind of Metal you're looking for. Find them, listen to them. If you find something you dislike, don't listen to it. Just like the Howard Stern bullshit that was going on...if you don't like what's on the tv/radio/computer screen or whatever it may be, change it!! You come off as a douche (no offense, if that's possible at this point) when you just bash dudes who are clearly bad mother fuckers on their chosen instruments. I'm beyond positive that all of those guys (in the band in the OP) could sit down and play just about any song you asked of them. They just so happen to enjoy pushing the limits of what they can make their guitars do.


Bottom line: Bit your quitchin and move on.


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## BenInKY (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> Here's what I don't understand:
> 
> Why is it cool to be so awesomely technical on guitar, bass, drums, keys but the only cool thing to do on vox is go UGHGGHGHH RAAAAAAWWW GRRR UUUHHHH?
> 
> ...



Good point. I'm sick of growl scream voice. That's why everybody says death metal gives them a headache and only 1 out of 100 people listen to it. That awful voice ruins the amazing instrumentation. 

But in this case, these guys put a lot of effort in to sounding like inaccessible shit. I would not listen to that for fun.


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## TemjinStrife (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> Here's what I don't understand:
> 
> Why is it cool to be so awesomely technical on guitar, bass, drums, keys but the only cool thing to do on vox is go UGHGGHGHH RAAAAAAWWW GRRR UUUHHHH?
> 
> ...



I LOVE YOU.

HAVE MY BABIES


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

"Good" growls aren't necessarily easy either... Just saying. I've tried it and it's not something I was just immediately able to do. There are some bands that just grunt, but there are also ppl like Jens Kidman, Akerfeldt, Corpse Grinder, Randy (LoG), Angela (Arch Enemy) that can do screamed vocals and in *my* opinion, mesh quite well with their band. 

I don't see how bashing the vocals is any different from bashing the guitar/bass playing... "It's shit because I don't like it."


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## AxeHappy (Jul 7, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> I hate the discussion of feeling...
> 
> *One's* inability to feel something does not denote an inherent absence of "feeling"...
> 
> ...




I'm confused that you said, "Not this again..." and then you went on to say the same thing I said?


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

AxeHappy said:


> I'm confused that you said, "Not this again..." and then you went on to say the same thing I said?


 
My bad, man. I said that in reference to the "feel vs technique" conversation in general. 

It wasn't directed at you specifically.


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> Here's what I don't understand:
> 
> Why is it cool to be so awesomely technical on guitar, bass, drums, keys but the only cool thing to do on vox is go UGHGGHGHH RAAAAAAWWW GRRR UUUHHHH?
> 
> ...


 
Here's what I don't understand:

Why is it cool to be so awesomely technical on guitar, bass, drums, keys but the only cool thing to do on vox is go LAAA LAAA LAAA LAA

Learn to fucking sing asshole, you're dragging your whole band down.

If you're going to play guitar like a 21st century cyborg, why have a bird vocalist? It doesn't fit the music at all in theory or in practice.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

Sure, I'll play...

What KONFYOUZD doesn't get:


Why does everyone feel like they can tell everyone else what they *should* do/play?

Why not just buy you're own fuckin' guitar (like most of us already have), make music that you think should be made and lead by example w/ your fuckin' mouth shut. Let the noobs and the unworthy sit around and speculate...


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> Sure, I'll play...
> 
> What KONFYOUZD doesn't get:
> 
> ...


 
True, but critics have to make money somehow.


----------



## metalvince333 (Jul 7, 2010)

I love beneath the massacre even if the 2 albums sound like one big endless song...their slower stuff (yup theres 2 or 3 songs like that) are the best IMO


----------



## troyguitar (Jul 7, 2010)

It has nothing to do with the fact that it's growling. Yeah I hate that shit but that's just my opinion. The fact is that the growling is not even in the same universe of technicality as the rest of the band.

If that fucker were growling out scales and arpeggios like some kind of aria from hell, then it would fit. I still would hate it, but at least he would fit in the band.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> It has nothing to do with the fact that it's growling. Yeah I hate that shit but that's just my opinion. The fact is that the growling is not even in the same universe of technicality as the rest of the band.
> 
> If that fucker were growling out scales and arpeggios like some kind of aria from hell, then it would fit. I still would hate it, but at least he would fit in the band.


 
I think that in choosing the style they did they've already demonstrated that they don't care what you think "fits".


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> It has nothing to do with the fact that it's growling. Yeah I hate that shit but that's just my opinion. The fact is that the growling is not even in the same universe of technicality as the rest of the band.
> 
> If that fucker were growling out scales and arpeggios like some kind of aria from hell, then it would fit. I still would hate it, but at least he would fit in the band.


 
That's not how growling works. It's not singing, it doesn't pitch.


----------



## Necris (Jul 7, 2010)

They could always try to get Mike Patton:


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

Antimatter said:


> That's not how growling works. It's not singing, it doesn't pitch.


 
Well there *are* different pitches, but yea... 

Not sure you'll be hearing anyone growl an arpeggio


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> Well there *are* different pitches, but yea...
> 
> Not sure you'll be hearing anyone growl an arpeggio


 
Well you know what I mean. I just get irritated when people say it's not good singing, because it's a completely different thing from singing.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

Antimatter said:


> Well you know what I mean. I just get irritated when people say it's not good singing, because it's a completely different thing from singing.


 
Different = bad. You fail.


----------



## troyguitar (Jul 7, 2010)

That's BS. Maybe growlers just aren't talented enough to control the pitches, but it has pitch.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> That's BS. Maybe growlers just aren't talented enough to control the pitches, but it has pitch.


 
Get back under your bridge, troll...


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> Different = bad. You fail.


 
Oh dammit. I forgot, we're talking about music.


----------



## troyguitar (Jul 7, 2010)

It's a true statement. Do I have to learn how to do it myself and post a demo?


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> It's a true statement. Do I have to learn how to do it myself and post a demo?


 
Go ahead.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> It's a true statement. Do I have to learn how to do it myself and post a demo?


 
If that's what makes you happy go ahead. I don't see how going through all that trouble to prove a point that's only really true to *some* ppl makes you less of a douche, but whatever...


----------



## Necris (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> That's BS. Maybe growlers just aren't talented enough to control the pitches, but it has pitch.


I agree partially. You definitely can control the relative pitches of screams both high and low (black metal and death metal styles). And im sure if enough practice was put into having a smooth transition between the two you could conceivably have a decent range of actual notes while doing this type of vocals. But I don't the the fact that no-one does it has anything to do with skill or talent so much as either no-one really ever considering it, not caring to learn it or not knowing how to go about learning it.


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

Would anyone _really_ go that far to prove a point?


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

Antimatter said:


> Would anyone _really_ go that far to prove a point?


 
how long have you been here?


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

Necris said:


> I agree partially. You definitely can control the relative pitches of screams both high and low (black metal and death metal styles). And im sure if enough practice was put into having a smooth transition between the two you could conceivably have a decent range of actual notes while doing this type of vocals. But I don't the the fact that no-one does it has anything to do with skill or talent so much as either no-one really ever considering it, not caring to learn it or not knowing how to go about learning it.


 
if i may i'd like to suggest that perhaps ppl have tried it and found that what's currently being done is sufficient for their individual applications.

you'll notice while some growlers tend to use the monotone bark, others have smoother growls and Randy from LoG has been known to make very smooth low to high growl transitions w/ a crescendo (on many songs)

i don't think the tonality of a growl is as conducive to scales and arpeggios as a "normal" singing voice or a guitar/bass/keyboard/whatever... 

what's more, growls are generally used in songs of a more intense nature. likewise growls/screams can vary in intensity. perhaps that's all that's meant to be conveyed. 


just as everyone in here seems to have a point to make so do the ppl who made the music in the first place.


----------



## troyguitar (Jul 7, 2010)

It doesn't matter whether the growlers have the talent and choose not to use it, or just can't do it. Either way, it's not there and it kills this music for me.

It's like having Kurt Cobain as the lead guitarist for this band. Yeah he plays with distortion (i.e. growls) but his technical ability does not fit with the rest of the band.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> It doesn't matter whether the growlers have the talent and choose not to use it, or just can't do it. Either way, it's not there and it kills this music for me.
> 
> It's like having Kurt Cobain as the lead guitarist for this band. Yeah he plays with distortion (i.e. growls) but his technical ability does not fit with the rest of the band.


 
Will you shut up if I pretend to agree with you?


----------



## davemeistro (Jul 7, 2010)

Necris said:


> I agree partially. You definitely can control the relative pitches of screams both high and low (black metal and death metal styles). And im sure if enough practice was put into having a smooth transition between the two you could conceivably have a decent range of actual notes while doing this type of vocals. But I don't the the fact that no-one does it has anything to do with skill or talent so much as either no-one really ever considering it, not caring to learn it or not knowing how to go about learning it.





0:45-1:00

Sort of what you guys are talking about. Not the best example but growling in defined pitches is definitely possible, but too bad this is the only example I could think of...


----------



## Necris (Jul 7, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> if i may i'd like to suggest that perhaps ppl have tried it and found that what's currently being done is sufficient for their individual applications.



I felt that fell under "not caring to learn it", I probably should have expanded on what I meant though.


----------



## ozzcows (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> Here's what I don't understand:
> 
> Why is it cool to be so awesomely technical on guitar, bass, drums, keys but the only cool thing to do on vox is go UGHGGHGHH RAAAAAAWWW GRRR UUUHHHH?
> 
> ...


Damn right, garbage one note caveman utterances are annoying when done constantly.


----------



## troyguitar (Jul 7, 2010)

WTF? I presented a completely logical argument regarding why this particular growler does not fit in this particular band.

Where are you getting the expansion from 1 growler in 1 band to the entire vocal style, aside from the (semi-? still not certain on that one)sarcastic one line jab about talent?

Perhaps I should not have added the fact that I don't like any growling in the first place, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the talent.

The whole band in the OP seems to be going for doing extremely technical and new cool stuff, yet the vocalist is doing the same old monotone growl we've heard a million times before.


----------



## Necris (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> WTF? I presented a completely logical argument regarding why this particular growler does not fit in this particular band.
> 
> Where are you getting the expansion from 1 growler in 1 band to the entire vocal style, aside from the (semi-? still not certain on that one)sarcastic one line jab about talent?



First off, I misread one of your posts, disregard that.



troyguitar said:


> Perhaps I should not have added the fact that I don't like any growling in the first place, but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate the talent.



Simply stating that and being done with it would have saved this discussion/argument a few posts.


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> It doesn't matter whether the growlers have the talent and choose not to use it, or just can't do it. Either way, it's not there and it kills this music for me.
> 
> It's like having Kurt Cobain as the lead guitarist for this band. Yeah he plays with distortion (i.e. growls) but his technical ability does not fit with the rest of the band.


 
Growling *isn't* distorted singing. It isn't singing at all. That's not a correct comparison.


----------



## BenInKY (Jul 7, 2010)




----------



## chucknorrishred (Jul 7, 2010)

listen to this worm



Stagnant in this existence,
I quest to free my mind.
No longer captive
This freedom my desire.
My quest never ending
With flames I light my path.
Yet death impending,
Shadows me on my way.

So the quest consumes me
As poison in my blood.
Pulling my body downward
Soon sleeping death shall come.
And how the light it tempts me,
I hear the trumpets call.
Tasting the lips of angels,
My soul is ripped apart.

Lost, awake, yet dreaming.
Asleep, yet conscious still,
My soul extracted.
I stumble through the dark.
I have no vision,
Yet I see everything.
The essence coursing
Ascension killing me.

Burn, the angels venom raging through my veins.
Violent hallucination venom draining me.
The trumpets ringing the light begins to fade
Into a new existence I am thrown again.

Burning in distress and my body reeling,
Traumatic visions form
My mind erases
Memories I'll never know.

Listen to the screams of the souls in mourning
Dissolving entity.
Shown the ways of horror
Writhing ecstasy.

Burn the angels venom raging through my veins.
Violent hallucination, venom draining me.
The trumpets ringing the light begins to fade,
Into a new existence I am thrown again.

Hear the voices of the dying crying out to me.
I hear the message clearly, voice of infinity
Their words caress me and tell me of my end.
Into the door of passage will I know flesh again?

So the quest consumes me as poison in my blood,
Pulling my body downward, sleeping death will come.
Now the light it tempts me, I hear the trumpets call;
Tasting the lips of angels my soul is ripped apart.


----------



## xJeremiahx (Jul 7, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> How dare those young wippersnappers make music they enjoy! They should make music I enjoy. Fucking assholes.


 
Truest thing I've read in this thread so far.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

Since I've been gone this has gone from the "music" from the OP to a debate on whether or not DM vox are singing? What in the hell is going on? There's a lot of butthurt and offshoot wars going on (as well as a few baiting posts I refuse to respond to)..dear sweet Satan. Sorry for the webwar....well not really sorry as I didn't intend it but still..sheesh. Let's all just hold hands..and have some Napalm Death.


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Since I've been gone this has gone from the "music" from the OP to a debate on whether or not DM vox are singing? What in the hell is going on? There's a lot of butthurt and offshoot wars going on..dear sweet Satan. Sorry for the webwar....well not really sorry as I didn't intend it but still..sheesh. Let's all just hold hands..and have some Napalm Death.


 
Never, we must fight!

Or we could stop


----------



## Defsan (Jul 7, 2010)

You made a thread specifically to bash that band?
Cool story bro


----------



## SpaceDock (Jul 7, 2010)

there was some shit that Steven Wilson said that was like "music has gone to both extremes, complete chaos and noise to elegant and refined, true masters do both"

something like that, all things are best in moderation, this stuff reminds me off the endless tapping madness of the 80's that led to tapping being a joke in the mainstream, now these kids will do the same thing with sweeping. I don't really consider these people good musicians, just good guitar players, and there is a very big difference.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

Antimatter said:


> Never, we must fight!
> 
> Or we could stop



Let's make sweet love by the fire.


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Let's make sweet love by the fire.


 
Sure thing, buddy


----------



## liamh (Jul 7, 2010)

Defsan said:


> You made a thread specifically to bash that band?
> Cool story bro


 I love how you dont see these posts on BrokenCyde/Attack Attack threads.


----------



## kung_fu (Jul 7, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Let's make sweet love by the fire.



There's enough butthurt in this thread already


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 7, 2010)

kung_fu said:


> There's enough butthurt in this thread already



This is the best post in the thread..thank you and goodnight


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

kung_fu said:


> There's enough butthurt in this thread already


----------



## Necris (Jul 7, 2010)

kung_fu said:


> There's enough butthurt in this thread already



 ...


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

It takes true talent to derail a thread with a single sentence


----------



## GeoMantic (Jul 7, 2010)

kung_fu said:


> There's enough butthurt in this thread already



winrar


----------



## MF_Kitten (Jul 7, 2010)

i think the guys in that band are insane, but the musical ideas they put out are pretty gnarly. in the actual negative sense, not in the skater-punk-lingo sense. it´s not that dissonant fast insane stuff doesn´t have it´s place, it´s just that they seem to be doing it just because it´s insane and dissonant, not because it puts out an impressive impression (zing!). i´m impressed with their speed and playing skills, but the music strikes me as being really boring and uninteresting, with nothing to grip onto. it just doesn´t give me anything. it´s like cardboard.

if they were to show some maturity and restraint in their music, with some dynamic in their arrangements, they´d be really impressive. the faceless aren´t too far removed from this kind of insanity, they just show restraint and maturity. they´re at the edge of comprehension, and they pull it off. this band, however, is just way over the line IMO.


----------



## Defsan (Jul 7, 2010)

liamh said:


> I love how you dont see these posts on BrokenCyde/Attack Attack threads.


Show me the threads!

EDIT: Just listened to BrokenCyde...


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 7, 2010)

Defsan said:


> Show me the threads!
> 
> EDIT: *Just listened to BrokenCyde*...


 
Sorry man. I hope things get better soon.


----------



## ittoa666 (Jul 7, 2010)

Defsan said:


>


----------



## josh pelican (Jul 7, 2010)

Lon said:


> i actually like it... its the same wave as braindrill and maybe beneath the massacre... for me its just the opposite of punk, there you have 3 powerchors in a song, here its...yeah, more ^^



These guys are beyond Braindrill and Beneath the Massacre in terms of technicality. They have more structure and are a hell of a lot better to listen to . They're better live, too.

Plus, it's easier to learn Braindrill or Beneath the Massacre than it is Viraemia. I give the bassist props for building his bass... but I can't listen to the music very often.


----------



## josh pelican (Jul 7, 2010)

MF_Kitten said:


> i think the guys in that band are insane, but the musical ideas they put out are pretty gnarly. in the actual negative sense, not in the skater-punk-lingo sense. it´s not that dissonant fast insane stuff doesn´t have it´s place, it´s just that they seem to be doing it just because it´s insane and dissonant, not because it puts out an impressive impression (zing!). i´m impressed with their speed and playing skills, but the music strikes me as being really boring and uninteresting, with nothing to grip onto. it just doesn´t give me anything. it´s like cardboard.
> 
> if they were to show some maturity and restraint in their music, with some dynamic in their arrangements, they´d be really impressive. the faceless aren´t too far removed from this kind of insanity, they just show restraint and maturity. they´re at the edge of comprehension, and they pull it off. this band, however, is just way over the line IMO.



This guy.

Quality post up in dis bitch.


----------



## drezdin (Jul 7, 2010)

this band pisses some people of for some reason. Therefore I love them. If you could have this band join up with Attack Attack and John Mayer you could reek havoc on the lives of so many 
respect


----------



## AliceAxe (Jul 7, 2010)

hmm interesting thread. Well not all art is necessarily meant to express emotion sometimes it purpose is to induce a reaction in it's audience , like a sense of disquiet or irritation, which this music certainly succeeded in doing!


----------



## xwmucradiox (Jul 7, 2010)

Joose said:


> I was gonna make a long post about it, but I just don't feel like it right now.
> 
> Simply put... ALL music should be full of emotion. Whatever emotion that is. Why even play music if you just base everything you do off scales and theory? That's more like work, as opposed to doing what you love.
> 
> $0.02



The music in the OP sounds like it has a ton of emotion to me. It sounds super pissed and I think it sounds sick as hell. That kind of music is what makes me want to get better and better all the time.


----------



## tacotiklah (Jul 8, 2010)

I find the music in the OP to be more entertaining to musicians than the average person. People like catchy shit and I honestly don't find anything there that would stand out in my brain long after the music stops.

Most of the music I listen to has to have a great groove/feel to it in addition to sounding pissed off or dark and creepy. I mean yeah I have some Necrophagist and Origin playing but even then I find some cool grooves that those dudes use. For example the middle section of Advanced Corpse Tumor and the solos for that song along with the solo to Fermented Offal Discharge sound godly. With Origin, I dig the hell out of the song Wrath of Vishnu. Very cool grooves there, and it surprised the hell out of me that they play in Drop C. (I see a lot of tech death in some variation of standard tuning)


----------



## mattofvengeance (Jul 8, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> Here's what I don't understand:
> 
> Why is it cool to be so awesomely technical on guitar, bass, drums, keys but the only cool thing to do on vox is go UGHGGHGHH RAAAAAAWWW GRRR UUUHHHH?
> 
> ...








Let me tell you why. First reason is truly aggressive music requires aggressive vocals. Well, you may say, "Nevermore is aggressive, and they have a real singer". No, they're not. They're heavy, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're aggressive. Now, for more angry passages, Warrel Dane will slap on a more pissed off tone, which is fine, but you cannot tell me that Necrophagist, Meshuggah, Cannibal Corpse, etc. would benefit from an actual singer. That's flat out ridiculous. Not only that, but if you've got guitarists and bass players flying up and down on their fretboards, someone going tra laa laal allaaaaaa would be insanely redundant. Clean vocals have their place, and I do like them, but in certain bands (like this one), they are not welcomed.


Now, if you don't mind me, I'll get back to transcribing Shania Twain and Yeah Yeah Yeah's songs on my 8 string.


----------



## Rashputin (Jul 8, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> And there is no divde. Honestly I think some people are just naturally musically inclined, and some people aren't. Those that aren't might lean a little more towards theory and less about feel..only some people (to which this thread is about) take a faaaar hard turn into theory, and seem to be unable to connect musically apart from what looks good on paper. These kinds of people leave out what's, in my opinion, the most important trait for musicians and guitarists.



 This.


----------



## xiphoscesar (Jul 8, 2010)

we need to get off this forum and listen to music


----------



## Nights_Blood (Jul 8, 2010)

davemeistro said:


> 0:45-1:00
> 
> Sort of what you guys are talking about. Not the best example but growling in defined pitches is definitely possible, but too bad this is the only example I could think of...




? That's a couple tracks of actual singing and a track of growling.

What do you mean by "defined pitches"? If you mean being able to "tune" your growl to pitches clearly discernable to the human ear, where have you heard this? 




josh pelican said:


> I give the bassist props for building his bass



Yeah, looked like a nice bass.




ghstofperdition said:


> II mean yeah I have some Necrophagist and Origin playing but even then I find some cool grooves that those dudes use.



Definitely. When I first heard Necrophagist it was hard for me to listen to them for more than a song, but over time, it sinks in.



This whole "tech-for the sake of being technical-metal" is just a fad at this point. Like Deathcore. Kids are doing it just to do it.


----------



## Vyn (Jul 8, 2010)

Woah now, no need to bash Braindrill. They aren't anywhere near as crazy as these guys. At least it is possible to remember a Braindrill riff >.>

I do agree though that a lot of band today are being technical _for the sake of being technical._ They're all have a boner for being absurdly technical but maybe once in a while they should direct that boner towards actually writing a song with hooks, dynamics and a fucking chorus every now and then.


----------



## signalgrey (Jul 8, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> You have to admit, that _chapman stick player calling himself a bassist_ is incredible.



fixed


----------



## Kr1zalid (Jul 8, 2010)

They're basically second generation of PsyOpus~~


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

mattofvengeance said:


> Let me tell you why. First reason is truly aggressive music requires aggressive vocals. Well, you may say, "Nevermore is aggressive, and they have a real singer". No, they're not. They're heavy, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're aggressive. Now, for more angry passages, Warrel Dane will slap on a more pissed off tone, which is fine, but you cannot tell me that Necrophagist, Meshuggah, Cannibal Corpse, etc. would benefit from an actual singer. That's flat out ridiculous. Not only that, but if you've got guitarists and bass players flying up and down on their fretboards, someone going tra laa laal allaaaaaa would be insanely redundant. Clean vocals have their place, and I do like them, but in certain bands (like this one), they are not welcomed.
> 
> 
> Now, if you don't mind me, I'll get back to transcribing Shania Twain and Yeah Yeah Yeah's songs on my 8 string.


 
This post makes entirely too much sense, sir.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

Necris said:


> I felt that fell under "not caring to learn it", I probably should have expanded on what I meant though.


 
Fair enough... I wasn't saying that you were necessarily "wrong" or that you'd forgotten something, per se. Just adding a little somethin' somethin'... and perhaps overlapping your point a bit hehe...


----------



## mattofvengeance (Jul 8, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> This post makes entirely too much sense, sir.



Thanks, buddeh!


----------



## Antimatter (Jul 8, 2010)

mattofvengeance said:


> Let me tell you why. First reason is truly aggressive music requires aggressive vocals. Well, you may say, "Nevermore is aggressive, and they have a real singer". No, they're not. They're heavy, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're aggressive. Now, for more angry passages, Warrel Dane will slap on a more pissed off tone, which is fine, but you cannot tell me that Necrophagist, Meshuggah, Cannibal Corpse, etc. would benefit from an actual singer. That's flat out ridiculous. Not only that, but if you've got guitarists and bass players flying up and down on their fretboards, someone going tra laa laal allaaaaaa would be insanely redundant. Clean vocals have their place, and I do like them, but in certain bands (like this one), they are not welcomed.
> 
> 
> Now, if you don't mind me, I'll get back to transcribing Shania Twain and Yeah Yeah Yeah's songs on my 8 string.


 
/thread


----------



## DrunkyMunky (Jul 8, 2010)

So vocal "agression" is screaming? No understandable singing with attitude and meaningful twisted strong lyrics? Please someone growl some teletubbies songs, sure it will be brutalz.

It's a shame that I have to miss so many great talent in instrumentation just because an asshole doesn't know how to sing. But maybe it's just me... I honestly can't picture Meshuggah with a different "singer", but I can't quite get their music either.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

^ cuz he didn't mention warrel dane and the fact that he sings but will add "aggression" to his tone when singing if he feels it's needed.

read, my friend. READ.

EDIT: sign em bitches...


----------



## jymellis (Jul 8, 2010)

DrunkyMunky said:


> I honestly can't picture Meshuggah with a different "singer", but I can't quite get their music either.


 
meshuggah is like suicide, you either get it or you dont. there is no in-between


----------



## otop (Jul 8, 2010)

In respect to Tech death metal.. There are a ton of bands that follow the trend and do it right... These "hater" posts are kinda pointless, but I must say they are fun to read


----------



## Randy (Jul 8, 2010)

Tragic irony in the fact there's a thread open about music being too complex and one about music being too simplistic at the same time.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

Randy said:


> Tragic irony in the fact there's a thread open about music being too complex and and one about music being too simplistic at the same time.


 
ppl will never be happy


----------



## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Jul 8, 2010)

The problem is that this community has become castrated by the "music is subjective/opinions aren't facts" argument over the years. The people who bring it up all the time are worse than the grammar police. We might as well stop interacting and sharing ideas and just oogle at each other's avatars.

Anyway, I'm in agreement with the OP; These guys are missing the point.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 8, 2010)

Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> The problem is that this community has become castrated by the "music is subjective/opinions aren't facts" argument over the years. The people who bring it up all the time are worse than the grammar police. We might as well stop interacting and sharing ideas and just oogle at each other's avatars.
> 
> Anyway, I'm in agreement with the OP; These guys are missing the point.



Exactly. It's only when people are offended in some way that they go for the "music is subjective" route. You mean to tell me you've NEVER said ANYTHING bad about a band and you've never hated a band or a song? It's called an opinion. If you don't like it, start your own thread about it or something but stop whining because someone can't stand a band. 

When you're in a band and you make music you are well aware that some people may like it, some people may hate it. Get over it. You think I rush to my band's aid whenever someone professes hatred towards it? No..who gives a shit? It's even worse when people get their dicks in the wringer over a band they don't even belong to..relax..I'm sure the band in the OP is not concerned about what I think of them, why are you?


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> The problem is that this community has become castrated by the "music is subjective/opinions aren't facts" argument over the years. The people who bring it up all the time are worse than the grammar police. We might as well stop interacting and sharing ideas and just oogle at each other's avatars.
> 
> Anyway, I'm in agreement with the OP; These guys are missing the point.


 
Opinions ARENT facts... They're just one possible way of viewing something. The fact that we don't agree is what gives a forum a purpose in the first place.

Walk it off...


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## troyguitar (Jul 8, 2010)

mattofvengeance said:


> Let me tell you why. First reason is truly aggressive music requires aggressive vocals. Well, you may say, "Nevermore is aggressive, and they have a real singer". No, they're not. They're heavy, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're aggressive. Now, for more angry passages, Warrel Dane will slap on a more pissed off tone, which is fine, but you cannot tell me that Necrophagist, Meshuggah, Cannibal Corpse, etc. would benefit from an actual singer. That's flat out ridiculous. Not only that, but if you've got guitarists and bass players flying up and down on their fretboards, someone going tra laa laal allaaaaaa would be insanely redundant. Clean vocals have their place, and I do like them, but in certain bands (like this one), they are not welcomed.
> 
> 
> Now, if you don't mind me, I'll get back to transcribing Shania Twain and Yeah Yeah Yeah's songs on my 8 string.



That might be a fine argument for growls in general (not what I was going after at all, that would be stupid on this forum), but my point was:

The growler in THIS BAND is doing _nothing _whatsoever to push the technical envelope. That's why he doesn't fit. Not because he growls, but because he is not even trying to do anything new or different.

ps - Yes I do think Necrophagist would benefit from an actual singer, I would actually listen to them!


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## mattofvengeance (Jul 8, 2010)

Man, that wouldn't work for Necrophagist. I'll grant you Obscura, maybe, but that's as far as I'll go


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> That might be a fine argument for growls in general (not what I was going after at all, that would be stupid on this forum), but my point was:
> 
> The growler in THIS BAND is doing _nothing _whatsoever to push the technical envelope. That's why he doesn't fit. Not because he growls, but because he is not even trying to do anything new or different.
> 
> ps - Yes I do think Necrophagist would benefit from an actual singer, I would actually listen to them!


 
I think the point of his post was that if his statement is true for growls in general why do you have such high expectations here? In fact, I'd go so far as to ask why do you care at all since you don't seem to like any aspect of the band...


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Jul 8, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> Opinions ARENT facts... They're just one possible way of viewing something. The fact that we don't agree is what gives a forum a purpose in the first place.
> 
> Walk it off...



Way to prove my point. I know that opinions aren't facts, and so do 99.8% of the members on this forum. That doesn`t mean one needs to bring it up 20 times when supporting an argument. It`s redundant and mostly unnecessary to the argument. 

Even at that, I could argue that some opinions are more factual than others. If someone comes along and says "Bach can't write music" you're going to tell me his opinion on the subject holds as much ground as any others? Please, no need to make this world any more ambiguous and complicated than we already make it out to be


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> Way to prove my point. I know that opinions aren't facts, and so do 99.8% of the members on this forum. That doesn`t mean one needs to bring it up 20 times when supporting an argument. It`s redundant and mostly unnecessary to the argument.
> 
> Even at that, I could argue that some opinions are more factual than others. If someone comes along and says "Bach can't write music" you're going to tell me his opinion on the subject holds as much ground as any others? Please, no need to make this world any more ambiguous


 
I think it's odd that ppl try to put these boxes around free expression... That is all...

You, my friend, need to relax...

I believe that we ALL know that opinions are not facts, but when ppl come around spouting off their opinion about something as if it's the gospel sometimes they need to be reminded that just because they don't care for something doesn't make it inherently bad or wrong much like them liking it doesn't grant it surpreme divinity. 

Everything that's needed to be said on the topic has been said. "Don't like it? Don't bother with it."

Why would you take the time to create and participate in a thread about something you dont' even like for fucks sake?


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## AxeHappy (Jul 8, 2010)

I said feelings were subjective. Not music. 

I have no problem with somebody saying, "This suck." There are Bands that I know are great that I don't like.

My problems is with the, "There's no feeling in this music, therefore this guys are missing the point of making music," statement. Which is quite frankly ridiculous.


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (Jul 8, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


> Why would you take the time to create and participate in a thread about something you dont' even like for fucks sake?



I thought you didn't want to box up free expression? 

Simple, if people only participate in things they like or feel good about, you never get real discussion, growth of knowledge, and the thought process behind it which either strengthens our opinion or forces you to reconsider. Many times, all you get is a collective cock-stroking session where everybody just mentions how awesome they are to each other because they all feel the same way.

It has nothing to do with drawing boundaries, and everything to do with using our intelligence and common sense. When there are arguments to be had, a third of the discussion revolves around one's equal validity to their views/opinions no matter how ridiculous or righteous they may be


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 8, 2010)

Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> I thought you didn't want to box up free expression?
> 
> Simple, if people only participate in things they like or feel good about, you never get real discussion, growth of knowledge, and the thought process behind it which either strengthens our opinion or forces you to reconsider. Many times, all you get is a collective cock-stroking session where everybody just mentions how awesome they are to each other because they all feel the same way.
> 
> It has nothing to do with drawing boundaries, and everything to do with using our intelligence and common sense. When there are arguments to be had, a third of the discussion revolves around one's equal validity to their views/opinions no matter how ridiculous or righteous they may be


 
I'm not sure where we got mixed up here... But my main problem with this thread, if it wasn't made clear is that I don't agree with the idea that subjects of this thread aren't playing music because it doesn't fit one person's definition (I personally don't like the music myself, but I see no reason to rain on someone else's parade)... 

Perhaps somewhere along the way in using too many generalizations I struck a nerve w/ you somewhere... 

I'm not even sure I actually disagree w/ you after rereading some of our previous posts... I think there's a misunderstanding of some kind.

If not, I'm willing to agree to disagree even if that's the only thing we CAN agree upon because at this point I see this "conversation" going nowhere... 

Good day, sir.


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## tacotiklah (Jul 8, 2010)

I'll paraphrase a far side daily calendar cartoon I once saw:
"Joe.....take my elephant gun and fetch me my music purist rifle...." 

Look. When you create music, it's gonna be picked apart by people like a pack of wolves on an elk carcass. It comes with the territory. There are things that people like and dislike and they have the right to express their feelings on it. Don't like the opinon? Don't read the damn thread. It's just that basic and simple. Yes music is subjective, so if that's your premise, why continue stirring up the shit in here? (this is just in general, not at one person) I agree with Drakkar on this one, but there are plenty of things we don't see eye to eye on. Still me and him get along great. Why? Because there's that mutual respect for each other's opinions. If an opinionated asshole like me can do it, why the fuck is it so hard for others? Just say to yourself "well I don't agree with your opinion, but I support your right to express it." and move the hell on.

Now back on topic:
My opinion is that music has to have some feel and groove to it. I like being able to hum this shit later on when I'm in the shower. One band that I use as a model for song writing is Amon Amarth. Why? Listen to their shit. It's probably some of the easiest shit a metalhead could ever play. But goddamn if it isn't catchy and epic. Shit like that will stay in people's minds a lot longer than when you trying to play 1,000 notes in 5 measures. I hate that shit for the same reason that I hate crabcore bands that mindlessly chug shit. They find one cool element to put int their music and beat it like a dead horse. Music should (imo) incorporate many different elements into it, not just one or two and say 'well I'm done. Time for the label to send me my check."

Just as I think some bands should put a lot more thought into what they play, I also believe some bands overthink this shit entirely. Music is an expression of the soul, not a math equation. Nerdy dudes that become epic masters at theory, then forget the importance of quality songwriting. Technique is only a part of the equation of a quality song, and unfortunately bands like in the OP prove that they are still lacking as musicians. Why is that? Again, fantastic technique is only 1 part of the equation when it comes to writing good songs. These dudes prove they have NO sense of dynamics at all, and forget that music is best described as the language of the soul. Sure aggression is a part of that language, but nobody is that angry all the time. Even Charlie Manson can enjoy some happiness when the prison guards bring him a ham and cheese sandwich. He might shit in it before he eats it (cause he's that fucking crazy) but he's still a happy guy for all of 10 minutes. (come to think of it, he may even redefine the phrase "shit-eating grin"  )

My point there is that they are being one-dimensional with their music and imo, that's a failure as a musician.....


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## renzoip (Jul 8, 2010)

To the OP: While I try not to be to quick to judge, I understand how you feel. Seems like death metal nowadays could be well be a band in the vein of Morbid Angel or a group of kids covering Lady Gaga songs in their 8 strings. There is so much out thee being classified as death metal...

Still, like everything else in this world, this trend will not last forever and musicians will eventually go back to basics.


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## lucasreis (Jul 8, 2010)

While I really admire musicians like those for their techinical abilities, and I admit, I can't even get close to their technique on their instruments, the songs are just not inpiring, and not really that heavy. These guys' songs sound like an old Mario boss tune amped to eleven with someone screaming over it. It has no soul, it's not inspiring, it's not memorable. 

Regarding death metal, I never forgot when I first listened to Morbid Angel, or Carcass. The melodies were instantly glud to my mind. I saw these guys' videos in the morning and I can't remember a single part of their songs. When I listened to bands like Death, Morbid, Carcass, Entombed and others, I could always remember their songs for days without listening to them. 

Technique is cool when done properly and if these guys are into it, more power to them. DT has a lot of technique and it's fucking memorable, same things for Nevermore... but with these guys? Meh...


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## riffist (Jul 8, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> who gives a shit?
> 
> I'm sure the band in the OP is not concerned about what I think of them, why are you?


 
Now I can't figure out why you'd bother starting the thread at all. If you expect nobody to care and all.

But yeah, this music is ass suck. I could barely listen to the first 40 seconds of the song.


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## BenInKY (Jul 8, 2010)

Necris said:


> They could always try to get Mike Patton:


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## xJeremiahx (Jul 8, 2010)

Redundancy detector detects redundancy.


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## Deathmonkey (Jul 8, 2010)

I gotta say, I love that shit, the crazier the better. It's challenging, not just to the player, but to the listener. I don't blame a single person for thinking that this style of "big fat bees metal" is dreck, I wouldn't even argue that it isn't. But like all music that is taken to a theoretical and physical extreme, there are going to be fans and detractors. To me, this is in the same arena as Free Jazz, 12 Tone Music, John Cage, and other forms of extreme or theoretical music. This is what bebop sounded like to people when it first started - Louis Armstrong refused to play it, called it "that damn Chinese music". 

I think we need people to push these boundaries, even if just to learn that they're there. We have to find that edge, even if only to realize we don;t want to walk off it. 

Personally, I love both consonant art, and stuff that challenges the Hell out of me. Stuff that challenges my perceptions, and my attitudes about the world around me. Yeah, after a day or so of Brain Drill or Beneath the Massacre I'll wander back to Soilwork or Throwdown, but there's a part of me that takes pride in listening to - and grokking - the unlisteneable. 

And part of the point of this stuff is to piss people off, and I can get behind that, too. Not all art is made for you. Get over it


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## Justin Bailey (Jul 8, 2010)

Sweeping is the easiest way to get 15(lets be honest a lot of 45 year olds too) year old metal kids to think you're hot shit


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jul 8, 2010)

Deathmonkey said:


> I gotta say, I love that shit, the crazier the better. It's challenging, not just to the player, but to the listener. I don't blame a single person for thinking that this style of "big fat bees metal" is dreck, I wouldn't even argue that it isn't. But like all music that is taken to a theoretical and physical extreme, there are going to be fans and detractors. To me, this is in the same arena as Free Jazz, 12 Tone Music, John Cage, and other forms of extreme or theoretical music. This is what bebop sounded like to people when it first started - Louis Armstrong refused to play it, called it "that damn Chinese music".
> 
> I think we need people to push these boundaries, even if just to learn that they're there. We have to find that edge, even if only to realize we don;t want to walk off it.
> 
> ...




I like to be challenged with music, but there are also times, I jut like to sit back and relax. So sometimes I'll have Schoenberg or John Zorn on and other times, it'll be some Low or Pink Floyd.


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## TemjinStrife (Jul 8, 2010)

Pink Floyd has some fairly challenging stuff actually when it comes to arrangements. I wouldn't call them "simple."


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## jaretthale78 (Jul 8, 2010)

Justin Bailey said:


> Sweeping is the easiest way to get 15(lets be honest a lot of 45 year olds too) year old metal kids to think you're hot shit


 this is true,

when i learned how to sweep (when i was 14, im a *mature* 15 yr old now ) i thought i was THE SHIT, and now im realising if you sit there and play the same arpeggios it just becomes old and uninspiring, i think its the kid i was that ruins it for musicians my age , i would go into my music class and be like "hey everyone, look at me sweep!" sure the kids my age were impessed but my music teacher wasnt, and i never understood why, but now i do, he probably heard people doin it for years..


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jul 8, 2010)

I meant it in a relative sense.

As opposed to something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfBVYhyXU8o


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## rectifryer (Jul 8, 2010)

xJeremiahx said:


> Redundancy detector detects redundancy.



Subjective thread's subject is subjective.


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## rectifryer (Jul 8, 2010)

ghstofperdition said:


> retarded amounts of awesome....



Wow, a farside reference and amon amarth reference in the same post?


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## Born4metal85 (Jul 9, 2010)

I agree with you. There's a bunch of shit bands growing like mushroom these days. That shit is really like nintendo and non-musical.

Here's another


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## ittoa666 (Jul 9, 2010)

Born4metal85 said:


> I agree with you. There's a bunch of shit bands growing like mushroom these days. That shit is really like nintendo and non-musical.
> 
> Here's another




Nintendo and other 8 bit music is fine, but that was just plain shit. I literally have no idea what the fuck I just listened to.


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 9, 2010)

Born4metal85 said:


> I agree with you. There's a bunch of shit bands growing like mushroom these days. That shit is really like nintendo and non-musical.
> 
> Here's another




it was promising for the first riff, then a breakdown showed up fom fucking nowhere


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## Prydogga (Jul 9, 2010)

I couldn't care less if people like to play fast with little to no theoretical or melodical idea behind it, it seems like something that in it's stupidy becomes an art. Or something to that effect. I like it 

EDIT: Bear in mind this is to the videos in the OP, I can imagine their's worse in the 7 pages. The song quoted above me for one...


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## TreWatson (Jul 9, 2010)

can't check at work, it literally yanks youtube links from the page scripting, but i know what band you're referring to.

i view it like this.

these guys have great musical and technical proficiency.

this is great.

but what people fail to realize is that techical and musical proficiency can be developed. most people can get to that level if they have the drive to work that hard.

what a lot of these bands lack is songwriting proficiency.

there's so much weedly wank going on that they forget to actually add in a progression that makes people want to continue to listen.

honestly, this is my issue with quite a few techdeath bands

big long flurries of notes that they want you to process without getting a break in between large groups, so it's simply forgotten in the ear fatigue. the difference is if you're trying to learn it, in which you still do it in pieces.

i love the wankery, but i wish that these bands would realize that you're writing music first, and outdoing every other techdeath/widdlywiddly band second.

it's not a contest. or maybe it is. i dunno...


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## Anton (Jul 9, 2010)

This is perfect tech, balanced you got groove, you got mind blowing riffs and ideas...I think it's all about balance in music.
The problem today is that bands lost the groove and everything around it, and all they do is focus on the technical aspect of the song, "let's just play super fast".

It's the same with guitarists, take Guthrie Govan or Michael Romeo..super technical players but in the same type load of style and it's not all about technical playing, on the other hand, you got Michael Angelo or Rusty Cooley who's whole point is just to play as fast as possible, and that's just makes them boring as hell.

I don't like old school, actually i cant stand most old school bands(Morbid angel, naplam death etc) but i also don't like trrrrrrrrrrrrr buueeee bbuuuueeeee ahahahahahahahahahaha breakdown clean vocals bueeeeeee trrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ahahahahahhahaahahahahahah break.

SikTh, Meshuggah, Protest the Hero and many other bands found the balance between technical playing and music that's because they write music and not exercises.


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## Necris (Jul 9, 2010)

Deathmonkey said:


> dreck...grokking...



What the fuck is _this _shit?


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 9, 2010)

Anata = tech?

Sikth is a similar sounding band. Never heard them til Anton's post.


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## Antimatter (Jul 9, 2010)

Sikth is awesome, but kind of weird.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 9, 2010)

I love those guys, whenever I'm in the mood for over the top death metal I'll almost always slap them on. I think it really comes down to what you're in the mood for. Obviously you aren't going to listen to them all day. There's only so much tech-deth you can listen to. So Drakkar, you sir can go fuck yourself.

















plz dont rape me.


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## Konfyouzd (Jul 9, 2010)




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## Antimatter (Jul 9, 2010)

On the subject of hating certain bands or types of music, I find that extremely frequently I will listen to something that I hear about, and be like, "What the fuck, turn this shit off, this is gay" And then like a month later I'll turn it back on to complain some more and it sounds really good. Then I think, "Well what did I listen to before?"


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## wlfers (Jul 9, 2010)

AxeHappy said:


> And emotion is completely and utterly subjective. So, is feel. You can't say, "There's no feeling in this so it sucks." It just doesn't work.



This. Even "emotionless" is a feeling in itself.

Everyone has their own personal line that they draw, whether its the line that they wont cross into simplicity, repetitiveness, technicality, and it's never ever going to be agreed upon. 

Not my cup of tea, but the great part is I don't have to scout it out on youtube and listen to it if I don't want to. Like scar said, that bassist has some technique though!


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## wlfers (Jul 9, 2010)

Stealthtastic said:


> I love those guys, whenever I'm in the mood for over the top death metal I'll almost always slap them on. I think it really comes down to what you're in the mood for.



Most definitely!


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## tacotiklah (Jul 9, 2010)

I played this vid for some of my bandmates. They were like "Man that is fucking cool!" but when asked about the song itself "Meh.....nothing that really stands out in my mind. I actually thought that was more of a guitar/bass lesson tbh."

I'm finding more and more people that are thinking along these lines....


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## Antimatter (Jul 9, 2010)

ghstofperdition said:


> I played this vid for some of my bandmates. They were like "Man that is fucking cool!" but when asked about the song itself "Meh.....nothing that really stands out in my mind. I actually thought that was more of a guitar/bass lesson tbh."
> 
> I'm finding more and more people that are thinking along these lines....


 
That's pretty much what everybody is criticizing them for, it's just kind of a shredding lesson. Not really much of a song. But if they like what they're doing, then they can do whatever they want


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## jaretthale78 (Jul 9, 2010)

whatever floats your boat...if these guys are happy with what there doing and if other people enjoy it well all the power to them...


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## Larrikin666 (Jul 9, 2010)

I've actually talked to Scott and Josh quite a few times over Myspace trying to set up some shows with one another. They're both super nice dudes and (obviously) talented musicians. I absolutely appreciate the style that they come out with. It's clearly not for everyone, but they're definitely doing their own thing. I love listening to a song that I can't immediately sit down and play myself.


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## jaretthale78 (Jul 9, 2010)

Larrikin666 said:


> I've actually talked to Scott and Josh quite a few times over Myspace trying to set up some shows with one another. They're both super nice dudes and (obviously) talented musicians. I absolutely appreciate the style that they come out with. It's clearly not for everyone, but they're definitely doing their own thing. I love listening to a song that I can't immediately sit down and play myself.


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## Larrikin666 (Jul 10, 2010)

troyguitar said:


> ps - Yes I do think Necrophagist would benefit from an actual singer, I would actually listen to them!



That would make me stop listening to them. The vocals on Epitaph are among my favorite of all time.


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## Ricky_Gallows (Jul 10, 2010)

Larrikin666 said:


> That would make me stop listening to them. The vocals on Epitaph are among my favorite of all time.



+7 haha


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## wlfers (Jul 10, 2010)

Larrikin666 said:


> That would make me stop listening to them. The vocals on Epitaph are among my favorite of all time.



One of my favorite things about that band is how the vocals are meant to compliment the music, not dictate it. Sorry off topic kinda =D


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## boni (Jul 10, 2010)

Deathmonkey said:


> I gotta say, I love that shit, the crazier the better. It's challenging, not just to the player, but to the listener. I don't blame a single person for thinking that this style of "big fat bees metal" is dreck, I wouldn't even argue that it isn't. But like all music that is taken to a theoretical and physical extreme, there are going to be fans and detractors. To me, this is in the same arena as Free Jazz, 12 Tone Music, John Cage, and other forms of extreme or theoretical music. This is what bebop sounded like to people when it first started - Louis Armstrong refused to play it, called it "that damn Chinese music".
> 
> I think we need people to push these boundaries, even if just to learn that they're there. We have to find that edge, even if only to realize we don;t want to walk off it.
> 
> ...






YOu can now close this thread!


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jul 10, 2010)

Antimatter said:


> That's pretty much what everybody is criticizing them for, it's just kind of a shredding lesson. Not really much of a song. But if they like what they're doing, then they can do whatever they want


And sometimes I just want a ridiculous shred fest.
A personal example of this is that I love 'Onset of Putrefaction', but I am not so hot about 'Epitaph'.


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## Progmaster X (Jul 10, 2010)

Joose said:


> I cannot stand this shit. Props for having to skills to play all that. But, that shit just ain't listenable to me.
> 
> This "Uber-Tech-Death-Super-Nintendo" music is taking over all that is well thought out and heartfelt.


 

I agree 100% with what you're saying here Jose!!


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## chucknorrishred (Jul 10, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> What in the good name of fuck is this shit?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 11, 2010)

TreKita said:


> can't check at work, it literally yanks youtube links from the page scripting, but i know what band you're referring to.
> 
> i view it like this.
> 
> ...



Pretty much. This OP vids are like the guitar center player on crack. Everyone trying to be seen and outdo one another. When music becomes a dick measuring contest it stops being music..and after that what the hell is the point?


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Jul 11, 2010)

I think it's a conspiracy to sell migraine pills...

At the end of the album liner notes...

<i>*Special thanks goes to: Jackson, the tree my bass player felled to make his bass, nintendo for the amplifiers and fx, durex and Procter & Gambel for their undying support and crates of paracetemol...*</i>


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## getaway_fromme (Jul 13, 2010)

Ya know, that Nile song seems so much more Tame than the others. Never thought I'd say that.


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## getaway_fromme (Jul 13, 2010)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Pretty much. This OP vids are like the guitar center player on crack. Everyone trying to be seen and outdo one another. When music becomes a dick measuring contest it stops being music..and after that what the hell is the point?



That pretty much said it right there, actually....


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