# 11 string guitar build started :)



## Adam

A 1:1 scale model:






Specs:
30" scale length
81mm nut 
117mm at 41st fret
41 frets
Using the tallest and slimmest fretwire available so that the upper most frets are playable
Tuning- G#0 C#1 F#1 B1 E2 A2 D3 G3 B3 E4 A4
Using Garry Goodmans high A string for the 30" scale
The last note being D8(2 keys past the last key on the piano) ang G#0 being the key before the first key on a piano(A0)
7-1/2 octave range
BKP Black Dog custom 11 string pickup
Controls: Volume for magnetic pickups, volume for Midi, switch for guitar/both/midi, and a switch for up/down for the midi bank.
Neutrik locking jack, and a 13 pin jack for midi cable
Dunlop straplocks
Custom Oakland Axe Factory 11 string toploading bridge with graphtech saddles
6 saddles(E-e) will be their piezo saddles for MIDI
Graphtech Hexaphonic Midi preamp
2 Graphtech nut blanks glued together
Sperzel tuners - 4 bass tuners on left side and 7 guitar tuners on right
1-3/4" swamp ash body with a 1/4" quilted maple top, just bought this:




bolt on purple heart maple laminate with 2 beefy martin style bass truss rods:




and two 18" carbon fiber rods.

Slightly flamed maple fretboard with unique black dot inlay pattern:





The finish and tuner layout will look something like this:





Some Progress pics(emphasis on progress ) :








ALOT of sanding is still needed I just did this quick with the bandsaw.

Thanks for looking


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## hufschmid

Thats going to be awesome, looking farward to see the result and a video of you playing it


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## caughtinamosh

Normally speaking, I loathe using the word "innovative," but I really think it can be used fairly here. Very impressive, and very imaginative.


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## Scarpie

wow adam, you brave soul. i would definately love to play that fucking thing when it's done. i personally could make great use of the extended low range. congrats on the idea being original. however i would brace yourself for some heat/criticism. but i think it'll be a very innovative machine.


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## caughtinamosh

+1

Here, I'll go first . You might find that the high notes (and on this instrument, they really will be high) sound rather cold and piercing. I find this to be the case on ordinary, 25.5" instruments (using Gary Goodman strings), and a 30" scale will only exacerbate this.


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## Tom Drinkwater

That guitar is going to be freaking awesome!!! The only problem I see is that the rest of us will have major guitar envy and look at our pitiful guitars in disgust.


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## vontetzianos

Looks very interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing it when it's completed.


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## Adam

caughtinamosh said:


> +1
> 
> Here, I'll go first . You might find that the high notes (and on this instrument, they really will be high) sound rather cold and piercing. I find this to be the case on ordinary, 25.5" instruments (using Gary Goodman strings), and a 30" scale will only exacerbate this.



I know this to be true but it is the only way to have that many frets with somewhat decent spacing. I'm hoping that the BKP Black Dog will warm it up a bit. Since my tuning is so low, I couldn't have many warm sounding woods, the only piece of wood in the whole instrument that will have a bit of warmth, is the swamp ash.

Thanks for all the comments


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## Adam

Tom Drinkwater said:


> That guitar is going to be freaking awesome!!! The only problem I see is that the rest of us will have major guitar envy and look at our pitiful guitars in disgust.



Thanks Tom


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## Spondus

I'm scared :|


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## Æxitosus

niceee. I can't wait to see a video of you playing it. 

You...are gonna post a video of you playing it...right?


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## Tommy Van Dyke

so... freaking... awesome...


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## 7deadlysins666

I would seriously go with fanned frets for that. That way you've got the 30" scale for the low strings, but not so much on the high strings. Lookin good though!


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## Apophis

wow, it's going to be awesome instrument  you will beat my 10 string 

good luck and update soon


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## ShadyDavey

Can't wait to see it finished - epic project


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## Adam

7deadlysins666 said:


> I would seriously go with fanned frets for that. That way you've got the 30" scale for the low strings, but not so much on the high strings. Lookin good though!


Read my previous posts.


Æxitosus;1538067 said:


> niceee. I can't wait to see a video of you playing it.
> 
> You...are gonna post a video of you playing it...right?



Of course


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## leftyguitarjoe

Two outputs might be good for this.

maybe the bottom 6 have an output and the top 5 have a separate output.


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## Andrew_B

hahaha 
this is gonna be sweet as..... 
body looks pretty nice...
cant wait to see the pup... 


only thing is that headstock is fugly 

because i said that .. i will give you a tip to help you make these 41 frets a reality.... 

a little trick that iv seen people do is fret the neck from the 1st fret to about the 15th fret with large fretwire, 
then fret the rest with banjo fretwire (thats a 24 fret neck though)
the banjo wire (or any smaller fretwire for that matter) isnt as tall as the large fretwire so you have two fret levels which can be good... 
it will make sure theres no buzz on the lower frets... 
(some people do it on regular guitars... they call its a drop off which they do during fret leveling)
im not sure how well the drop off works for tapping though....
only one way to find out 

oh and those martin style truss rods are a bitch 

have fun...


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## Tommy Van Dyke

Apophis said:


> wow, it's going to be awesome instrument  you will beat my 10 string
> 
> good luck and update soon



you gotta get yourself a 12 if you want to retain your status of being overlord of ss.org 

I'd be really curious to see how those 10 & 10+ necks felt though, I just can't imagine people having big enough hands to comfortably play those things conventionally (but eight finger tapping looks and sounds so cool I'd be willing to give one a whirl)


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## Apophis

but to do that I have to combine such huge and short scales  cause going higher is impossible at that scale and lower  I have to use something about .160-180 to go lower than Adam plans to go  I think Adam will have max we can even dream of - if we still thinking about guitar, not bass, cause there we have to beat Yves Carbonne and Garry Goodman .


and playing that instruments it's way easier than most people think


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## caughtinamosh

sevenstring.org - "Constantly pushing boundaries."

As much as I hate cliches, this one is very applicable to this forum. Builds like these make me question whether the boundary between guitar and harp actually exists.


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## Tommy Van Dyke

Apophis said:


> but to do that I have to combine such huge and short scales  cause going higher is impossible at that scale and lower  I have to use something about .160-180 to go lower than Adam plans to go  I think Adam will have max we can even dream of - if we still thinking about guitar, not bass, cause there we have to beat Yves Carbonne and Garry Goodman .
> 
> 
> and playing that instruments it's way easier than most people think



yeah I imagine you'd need a fan fret design, something like a 34 to 30 and thats totally bass territory, ah well maybe garry will get those high d string working one day for 25.5 scale and hopefully longer


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## hufschmid

caughtinamosh said:


> sevenstring.org - "Constantly pushing boundaries."
> 
> As much as I hate cliches, this one is very applicable to this forum. Builds like these make me question whether the boundary between guitar and harp actually exists.



 

Full-size pedal harps (the kind used in an orchestra) have 46 or 47 strings, from C-1 or D-1 to G-7


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## Adam

Andrew_B said:


> hahaha
> this is gonna be sweet as.....
> body looks pretty nice...
> cant wait to see the pup...
> 
> 
> only thing is that headstock is fugly
> 
> because i said that .. i will give you a tip to help you make these 41 frets a reality....
> 
> a little trick that iv seen people do is fret the neck from the 1st fret to about the 15th fret with large fretwire,
> then fret the rest with banjo fretwire (thats a 24 fret neck though)
> the banjo wire (or any smaller fretwire for that matter) isnt as tall as the large fretwire so you have two fret levels which can be good...
> it will make sure theres no buzz on the lower frets...
> (some people do it on regular guitars... they call its a drop off which they do during fret leveling)
> im not sure how well the drop off works for tapping though....
> only one way to find out
> 
> oh and those martin style truss rods are a bitch
> 
> have fun...



I modeled the headstock after a violin scroll, since this instrument will be used mostly for classical music, and I have a hard time tring to play Bach on a metal guitar
I'm using a fretwire thats not very wide but fairly tall similar to banjo wire but taller, so I will use the same fretwire thoughout 1-41. Thanks for the tips though Please elaborate on the martin truss rods, I've never used them before, so if there's something I should know, please tell me


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## Durero

That's exciting Adam, hope the build goes really well


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## Covenant

...its.....beautiful

i also love the 4 bass tuner idea


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## daemon barbeque

Very cool ,creative ,badass ,you name it.
Or better said ,it's just awesome man!


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## gatesofcarnage

This is the most creative build i have seen yet on hereI cant wait to see and here the final result...


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## Andrew_B

Adam said:


> I modeled the headstock after a violin scroll, since this instrument will be used mostly for classical music, and I have a hard time tring to play Bach on a metal guitar
> I'm using a fretwire thats not very wide but fairly tall similar to banjo wire but taller, so I will use the same fretwire thoughout 1-41. Thanks for the tips though Please elaborate on the martin truss rods, I've never used them before, so if there's something I should know, please tell me


 
oh...
well i saw the headstock and said wtf kind of fender thingy is that  
doesnt look very scroll like 

the martin rods are just bulky....
which means you will have a fatter neck,
then again, bulky may be whats needed in this particullar neck 
i guess it will be flat with rounded over edges anyway?

oh and make sure you pull the rod out of the aluminium U channel and wrap a bit of tape around the rod before putting it in the neck...
iv heard they can rattle


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## D-EJ915

Interesting concept adam, looks pretty cool. Kinda reminds me of old-school instruments


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## lurgar

This looks really interesting. A question I have is that the tuning is listed as having a B#. Since a B# doesn't exist technically, does that mean it's a C instead? or a B? 

In any case, I really look forward to how this will turn out. It's such a scary concept, I can't wait to see it in action.


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## Adam

Andrew_B said:


> oh...
> well i saw the headstock and said wtf kind of fender thingy is that
> doesnt look very scroll like
> 
> the martin rods are just bulky....
> which means you will have a fatter neck,
> then again, bulky may be whats needed in this particullar neck
> i guess it will be flat with rounded over edges anyway?
> 
> oh and make sure you pull the rod out of the aluminium U channel and wrap a bit of tape around the rod before putting it in the neck...
> iv heard they can rattle



Thanks 
Yeah, I modelled it after a scroll, but did not copy it outright, and just mixed it in with a guitars headstock and came out with that


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## Adam

lurgar said:


> This looks really interesting. A question I have is that the tuning is listed as having a B#. Since a B# doesn't exist technically, does that mean it's a C instead? or a B?
> 
> In any case, I really look forward to how this will turn out. It's such a scary concept, I can't wait to see it in action.



Whoops that's a typo should be B


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## Gain_Junkie93

Wow very interesting build. I'll be keeping an eye on this it would be fun to try it but I don't think I could use that much range. 9 seems to be the limit I could go to.


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## Konfyouzd

that looks intimidating


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## damigu

way beyond the number of strings i'd ever want, but i've seen some videos of people doing amazing things with those types of ERGs, so more power to you!

looks like a fun project, too.


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## Harry

Absolutely monstrous, this is gonna be a sick guitar bro!


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## wannabguitarist

Is there a reason you're not going for fanned frets? Either way that's going to be an awesome guitar


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## coreysMonster

and thus a monster was born 

awesome, dude!

EDIT: also, you're gonna need one hell of an amp to be able to play this monster. Are you building it with two outputs? one for the lower strings and one for the upper 7/8 or so?


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## Adam

wannabguitarist said:


> Is there a reason you're not going for fanned frets? Either way that's going to be an awesome guitar


I've never done fanned frets before, an I don't want to have more than 30" anyway, since it would feel too much like a bass to me and would be a pain in the ass to do big stretch's.


coreysMonster said:


> and thus a monster was born
> 
> awesome, dude!
> 
> EDIT: also, you're gonna need one hell of an amp to be able to play this monster. Are you building it with two outputs? one for the lower strings and one for the upper 7/8 or so?


Garry Goodman recommend that I use a stereo amp for this.


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## phaeded0ut

Dear Adam,

Looks really pretty, though I must agree on doing something a bit different with the headstock. LOL! Love what you're planning on doing with the upper horn on the body. My recommendation would be to try to go with a zero fret and stainless steel fret wire if you can, especially with those bass strings you'll be using on the lower end of things.

From the Stick Days, I'd recommend trying to use a SWR California Blonde: SWR® - Amplify Your Future . This worked well for me in the day, though you'll definitely be going a bit lower than I ever did with my Stick or Box guitar. 

Can't wait to see more pictures of this beastie and the movie.

Thanks again!


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## Adam

phaeded0ut said:


> Dear Adam,
> 
> Looks really pretty, though I must agree on doing something a bit different with the headstock. LOL! Love what you're planning on doing with the upper horn on the body. My recommendation would be to try to go with a zero fret and stainless steel fret wire if you can, especially with those bass strings you'll be using on the lower end of things.
> 
> From the Stick Days, I'd recommend trying to use a SWR California Blonde: SWR® - Amplify Your Future . This worked well for me in the day, though you'll definitely be going a bit lower than I ever did with my Stick or Box guitar.
> 
> Can't wait to see more pictures of this beastie and the movie.
> 
> Thanks again!



Thanks!
Personally I like the headstock, but thanks for the suggestion I'll try a zero nut on my 2nd version of this, since this is more or less a prototype. I have not had alot of experience with fretting, so I want to be comfortable fretting with regular frets, I will try stainless when I have a little more experience 
I will check out that amp, sounds great for cleans/midi


Heres some update pics!

Neck cut out:





Body rough cut (stains are just dried glue):




2" thick




Back shot:




Kitteh doing a quality control inspection:


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## Covenant

may i ask why you have 2 necks?

is it like a baby and daddy thing? 

also, cute pussy


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## theperfectcell6

this is gonna be sick!!!
did you ever consider fanned frets?


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## Apophis

it's going to be awesome erg 

update asap


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## Adam

Covenant said:


> may i ask why you have 2 necks?
> 
> is it like a baby and daddy thing?
> 
> also, cute pussy


Actually that is a neck through octave guitar I built with the leftover lumber, it will have a mandolin scale and will be tuned up an octave. The body is also made up of leftover lumber, you can see a bit of the body in the 3rd pic



theperfectcell6 said:


> this is gonna be sick!!!
> did you ever consider fanned frets?


If you read back a few pages you will read why I didn't.



Apophis said:


> it's going to be awesome erg
> 
> update asap



Thanks


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## daemon barbeque

Yes yes and yeeeeeeeeeessss! Man the body looks already so sweet!


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## hufschmid

Its going to be really nice, looking forward for some more pictures


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## phaeded0ut

That body and both necks look really sweet! Really loving the neck lamination on both instruments (need to show us some more pictures of the "Mini-Me" guitar you're working on, too! And what does inspektr kitteh say? "Purrrrrrrrfekt..." 

Man, can't wait to see more of both projects. Please, keep us updated?


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## Stealthdjentstic

Cool stuff for sure, I'm interested in how that pickup will sound with it.


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## MF_Kitten

i have yet to hear a mini-scaled guitar sound good, but i've never thought of the full octave up... i've always thought about tuning up to A and stuff like that. going up an octave would rule for me, since i do lots of layered clean parts with really high notes and stuff, and i could double the chords an octave higher. yum!

edit: forgot to add how fucking awesome this is 

can't wait to see it going places!


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## Adam

Update! Sorry it took so long, alot going on in my life and I'm getting more hours at work There is still ALOT of work left but I wanted to show some progress to you guys Anyway on to the pics:




















Ultra comfy arm contour! But at the expense of some quilted maple I would have tried bending the maple cap over the contour but the angle was too extreme for my experience:






Some pics of the octave guitar, which was constructed out of scrap maple and purpleheart and yes thats wood filler on the headstock I fucked up on tuner location on the treble side, it shouldn't show after some wood glue+sawdust, and a nice deep blue stain 


I hope


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## Adam

Oh yeah, Garry's going to make me some .127's for G#0 for the 30" scale on this beast.

Also if any one's wondering what guages will be on this it's:
G#0 - .127
C#1 - .105
F#1 - .085
B1 - .065
E2 - .046
A2 - .036
D3 - .026
G3 - .016
B3 - .011
E4 - .009
A4 - .006


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## damigu

that beast is insane, dude!!


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## Durero

Wow that's exciting Adam - it's coming along nicely


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## distressed_romeo

ill be interested to see and hear how both of these turn out. That body shape looks especially nice...really elegant, even with the huge neck.

Well done dude!


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## Apophis

looks better and better


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## MF_Kitten

nice! i'm really excited about that octave guitar, actually, because i keep imagining the possibilities...


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## Dethfield

Everything about this guitar is extreme..






I LOVE IT!!!


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## Colton165

this is crazy, man.

are you even going to be able to play at that 41st fret?!?!? it looked so tiny!

and where do you buy a .006 gauge string, on my other seven string with a fixed bridge, i want to tune it with a high G, and keep my other 7 with low B, at least until i can afford an 8 sttring

also, how do so many people know how to build their own guitars, is there a class somewhere or what!?

i want to learn to make my own as well!


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## phaeded0ut

Very curv-ey!!! Looking forward to more pictures, too! Have to admit that I've always enjoyed seeing the different layers of wood in an instrument (preferably in more than just the edges of the body) especially when the color of the woods in question are fairly different. 

Love the octave guitar, any thoughts of running it as courses instead of single strings?


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## Dyingsea

Awesome, I'll be curious to see if that .006 can truly tune up on that scale.


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## Adam

Colton165 said:


> this is crazy, man.
> 
> are you even going to be able to play at that 41st fret?!?!? it looked so tiny!
> 
> and where do you buy a .006 gauge string, on my other seven string with a fixed bridge, i want to tune it with a high G, and keep my other 7 with low B, at least until i can afford an 8 sttring


Yep heres a spacing chart:





I get my High A strings from Garry Goodman(check my sig) He offers .005-.015 High A strings, for scales 25.5"-30"


phaeded0ut said:


> Very curv-ey!!! Looking forward to more pictures, too! Have to admit that I've always enjoyed seeing the different layers of wood in an instrument (preferably in more than just the edges of the body) especially when the color of the woods in question are fairly different.
> 
> Love the octave guitar, any thoughts of running it as courses instead of single strings?


For now single strings, as I would probably buy a mandolin if I wanted double course.


Dyingsea said:


> Awesome, I'll be curious to see if that .006 can truly tune up on that scale.


Thanks to Garry Goodman I can


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## Adam

Canuck Brian finished slotting the fretboard and it's ready to be drilled for inlays
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/freaklegion/DSC09955.jpg


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## canuck brian




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## Adam

Thanks Brian


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## Adam

Update: sorry I havent posted in a while busy with new job and building
Heres a few older pics of it assembled before p/u routing and stain of course.
Also due to some problems BKP could not build me my pickup but I asked Nordstrand and they said no prob. and here it is:





Oh and the gab below the last fret is just from me starting to route the pickup cavity These pics are about a month old and since then the guitar has had its final sanding and the truss rod cavity has been cleaned up and any other mistakes you may see in the pics has been corrected.





























Heres some pics I took today:
Body still drying from stain, still another coat to go




Necks ready for spraying




New logo


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## vontetzianos

Wow, very interesting design. 

What's the tuning on that?


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## Adam

vontetzianos said:


> Wow, very interesting design.
> 
> What's the tuning on that?



G#0-C#1-F#1-B1-E2-A2-D3-G3-B3-E4-A4
with guages:.134(Garry goodmans G#0 string for the 30" scale) .115-.085-.065-.046-.036-.024-.016-.011-.009-.007(Garry's A4 string for the 30" scale)
The highest note at the 41st fret is D8, two notes higher than an 88 key piano, and one note lower(G#0) making a perfect 7-1/2 octaves


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## TimSE

man that thing is immence! and its very rare i like blue guitars ... but that thing will look cool!


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## Apophis

wow, what a BEAST


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## Adam

TimSE said:


> man that thing is immence! and its very rare i like blue guitars ... but that thing will look cool!



Thanks man, I love the 7 string you just built


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## Adam

Apophis said:


> wow, what a BEAST



Thanks means alot coming from you


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## Apophis

it's one awesome instrument, imo you should work a little with edges and making those a little rounder what will correspond with the design a lot more, but of course it's your personal taste


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## Hollowway

You're INSANE! I love it! You can replace the entire orchestra with that thing! 
Props to staining it blue. In this case I actually think a natural tone would have taken away from it, given that massive monochromatic neck. That thing is really, really cool.


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## caughtinamosh

Woah, what a brute! 

Props for being so adventurous, and pulling it off so goddamn well.


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## Adam

Apophis said:


> it's one awesome instrument, imo you should work a little with edges and making those a little rounder what will correspond with the design a lot more, but of course it's your personal taste


Thanks , its rounded enough so that there are no sharp edges but I dont really want it any rounder than that, but this is a prototype so I can always try it with the 2nd one, thanks for the tip though I appreciate it.


Hollowway said:


> You're INSANE! I love it! You can replace the entire orchestra with that thing!
> Props to staining it blue. In this case I actually think a natural tone would have taken away from it, given that massive monochromatic neck. That thing is really, really cool.



Thanks, I love a maple fretboard and blue quilted maple combo.


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## Adam

caughtinamosh said:


> Woah, what a brute!
> 
> Props for being so adventurous, and pulling it off so goddamn well.



Thanks, its always nice to think outside the box, I really thought I was gonna fuck up bad on this one, considering it's only the third guitar I've built, and only 2nd from complete scratch.


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## damigu

absolutely monstrous! i can't wait to see it finished and hear some sound clips!


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## tr0n

That axe is dangerous. :O I mean in a good way. Liking the crab nebula graphic on the backplate.


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## hufschmid

Awesome work man


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## Adam

hufschmid said:


> Awesome work man



Thanks man BIG fan of your work.


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## Scarpie

when can we expect video's man?!!!!!

she's beautiful. we need the porn!!!


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## leftyguitarjoe

Very cool man. I cant wait to see it finished.


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## Dante Leblanc

*I love elevenstrings. I want to build one eventually. I have a custom Halo niner in the shops for an F2-Standard variant [F0,B0,E1,A1,C2,F2,B3,E3](Or some shit?), ultimately an octave below Meshuggah. I am wondering if an elevenstring with five lower strings would be very functional, however. EADGBEADGBE sounds awesome on paper, but I have never tuned my basses any lower than drop-C of the octave..which is two octaves below drop-C in guitar. Tuning that low on a guitar (if proper pickup/amp tech exists) would be perhaps too low, for almost anybody's taste.*

*You do not happen to play metal, do you? Like deathmetal? Any grind? Maybe deathcore? I would like to hear your distortion tone (if you have) for sub-octave tuning.*

*Looks good, by the way. Luck to you.*


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## lurgar

It's so scary looking now, but I am really, really digging on this. You absolutely must deliver videos to show off this thing when you're done with it.


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## Adam

Scarpie said:


> when can we expect video's man?!!!!!
> 
> she's beautiful. we need the porn!!!


It will be done in about 2 weeks so then 



leftyguitarjoe said:


> Very cool man. I cant wait to see it finished.


Thanks, me too.


Dante Leblanc said:


> *I love elevenstrings. I want to build one eventually. I have a custom Halo niner in the shops for an F2-Standard variant [F0,B0,E1,A1,C2,F2,B3,E3](Or some shit?), ultimately an octave below Meshuggah. I am wondering if an elevenstring with five lower strings would be very functional, however. EADGBEADGBE sounds awesome on paper, but I have never tuned my basses any lower than drop-C of the octave..which is two octaves below drop-C in guitar. Tuning that low on a guitar (if proper pickup/amp tech exists) would be perhaps too low, for almost anybody's taste.*
> 
> *You do not happen to play metal, do you? Like deathmetal? Any grind? Maybe deathcore? I would like to hear your distortion tone (if you have) for sub-octave tuning.*
> 
> *Looks good, by the way. Luck to you.*


No I dont play deathmetal, Iced Earth and Nevermore is about the heaviest shit I play, and as you can can see it not much of a metal looking guitar  I'm going to use it mostly for classical pieces that required a full 88 key piano or more in Bach's case with this instrument it will be like having a 91 key piano(2 more migh notes, 1 more low note). But I will play it with distortion for the video clips, also tuning lower than G#0 on the guitar will end being very expensive, custom electronics/EQ system, custom strings as thick as .275 for your E00 note, and one hell of a good speaker.



lurgar said:


> It's so scary looking now, but I am really, really digging on this. You absolutely must deliver videos to show off this thing when you're done with it.


Will do


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## phaeded0ut

WOW! Beautiful guitar, Adam. Can't wait to see the finished pictures, truss rod cover and pickup installed on the now blue stained/painted guitar. Really is gorgeous.


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## yingmin

How are you planning to play this? Fingerstyle/picked or touchstyle? Why only one synth output?


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## Adam

phaeded0ut said:


> WOW! Beautiful guitar, Adam. Can't wait to see the finished pictures, truss rod cover and pickup installed on the now blue stained/painted guitar. Really is gorgeous.


Thanks and actually I'm not going to be using a truss rod cover.



yingmin said:


> How are you planning to play this? Fingerstyle/picked or touchstyle? Why only one synth output?



Allbut mostly like a regular guitar, my hands are large enough to do so
My Roland GR20 only reads up to 6 strings an I could not afford 2 of those units and 2 preamps ect.., but I had the bridge drilled for piezo wires on all 11 saddles, so maybe sometime in the future I will have all 11 strings on MIDI


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## yingmin

Adam said:


> My Roland GR20 only reads up to 6 strings an I could not afford 2 of those units and 2 preamps ect.., but I had the bridge drilled for piezo wires on all 11 saddles, so maybe sometime in the future I will have all 11 strings on MIDI


Seems like a shame to build this big, serious instrument and then put it through a GR-20. There are MUCH better synths out there. If nothing else, I think it would be a good idea to have all strings wired for synth access just in case you need to switch the synth over to the bass strings for certain songs.


----------



## Adam

yingmin said:


> Seems like a shame to build this big, serious instrument and then put it through a GR-20. There are MUCH better synths out there. If nothing else, I think it would be a good idea to have all strings wired for synth access just in case you need to switch the synth over to the bass strings for certain songs.



I'm just starting out in the MIDI world, the GR20 seemed like a good affordable begginers synth. As for switching to the bass strings, the GR20 has an octave up/down you can set the footpedal to, so I could go octave down and back to normal. What would be a better synth? I may look into a better one in the near future.


----------



## yingmin

Adam said:


> I'm just starting out in the MIDI world, the GR20 seemed like a good affordable begginers synth. As for switching to the bass strings, the GR20 has an octave up/down you can set the footpedal to, so I could go octave down and back to normal. What would be a better synth? I may look into a better one in the near future.


 I know about the octave up/down thing, but that still depends on where you're physically playing on the guitar. Having the bass strings wired for MIDI would mean that you could continue playing whatever you would normally play on the upper six strings while using the lower strings for synth. Anyway, I know that you're just getting started out, so all this may not be feasible in the near future, but it's something to think about.

For synths, I'd definitely go for an Axon AX 100. You get full control over your sound. You can layer sounds and split patches up at different strings, different frets, even by how hard you pick. For example, you can have the upper four strings be a classical guitar below the twelfth fret, and a piano and string pad above, while the lower two strings are an upright bass. The GR-20's lack of an interface really limits you to what's possible. Also, it's rackmounted, which automatically makes it cooler. If you go for rackmount amps, then you can get two of these and keep them in the same case as your amps, controlling everything with a single MIDI footswitch, without any clutter on the floor. They're only slightly more expensive than a GR-20, and they give you much, much more flexibility and control.


----------



## Adam

yingmin said:


> I know about the octave up/down thing, but that still depends on where you're physically playing on the guitar. Having the bass strings wired for MIDI would mean that you could continue playing whatever you would normally play on the upper six strings while using the lower strings for synth. Anyway, I know that you're just getting started out, so all this may not be feasible in the near future, but it's something to think about.
> 
> For synths, I'd definitely go for an Axon AX 100. You get full control over your sound. You can layer sounds and split patches up at different strings, different frets, even by how hard you pick. For example, you can have the upper four strings be a classical guitar below the twelfth fret, and a piano and string pad above, while the lower two strings are an upright bass. The GR-20's lack of an interface really limits you to what's possible. Also, it's rackmounted, which automatically makes it cooler. If you go for rackmount amps, then you can get two of these and keep them in the same case as your amps, controlling everything with a single MIDI footswitch, without any clutter on the floor. They're only slightly more expensive than a GR-20, and they give you much, much more flexibility and control.



Wel that is certainly something to think about, the Axon does sound tempting, I can still have room to route for a second 13 pin jack and there is more than enough room in the cavity for 2 of everything. So it will still be possible in the future to have all 11 hooked up. 

I'm not a rackmount guy so it would sit ontop of my amp, which is fine. you have to realizr that this instrument cost me almost $1600 in parts alone, not including the GR20, so you may see why I was not too eager to buy 2 of everything for the MIDI Thanks for the info though.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Adam said:


> Update: sorry I havent posted in a while busy with new job and building
> Heres a few older pics of it assembled before p/u routing and stain of course.
> Also due to some problems BKP could not build me my pickup but I asked Nordstrand and they said no prob. and here it is:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh and the gab below the last fret is just from me starting to route the pickup cavity These pics are about a month old and since then the guitar has had its final sanding and the truss rod cavity has been cleaned up and any other mistakes you may see in the pics has been corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heres some pics I took today:
> Body still drying from stain, still another coat to go
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Necks ready for spraying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New logo



holy crap that's awesome... demo vid when it's done...?


----------



## Adam

Konfyouzd said:


> holy crap that's awesome... demo vid when it's done...?



Of course


----------



## MTech

Not sure if somebody suggested this or brought it up and I don't really want to read 10 pages to find out... but why did you use the smallest fretwire on the whole thing rather then use normal up to a point then switch to smaller? I've seen that done to deal with the problem you were addressing, so then the 1- say 20 feel normal so to speak.



Also - Love The Blue


----------



## Adam

MTech said:


> Not sure if somebody suggested this or brought it up and I don't really want to read 10 pages to find out... but why did you use the smallest fretwire on the whole thing rather then use normal up to a point then switch to smaller? I've seen that done to deal with the problem you were addressing, so then the 1- say 20 feel normal so to speak.



Its actually a medium fret wire, I got the tallest yet least widest, .080 wide and .050 tall, I love tall fretwire but I hate it when its too fat so this was a good compromise. For comparison the biggest wire that stewmac sells is .110 wide and .053 tall, so I felt that I wouldnt miss that extra .003 in height. I played while it was strung up and it very similar to the jumbo fretwire equipped guitars I have, about the same height but .030 thinner


----------



## Durero

Looks fantastic Adam! Very exciting indeed. I also love the blue.

Looking forward to more pics & videos of your wicked machine


----------



## flo

Extremely nice piece of work! Seems to be very good woodwork as well. Your bobyshape is beautiful, is it inspired by Ritter-Basses? I'm a big fan of them  And of you as well!


----------



## All_¥our_Bass

That is a wonderful, beautiful looking guitar.

Promise you will make clips.


----------



## Adam

Durero said:


> Looks fantastic Adam! Very exciting indeed. I also love the blue.
> 
> Looking forward to more pics & videos of your wicked machine


Thanks



flo said:


> Extremely nice piece of work! Seems to be very good woodwork as well. Your bobyshape is beautiful, is it inspired by Ritter-Basses? I'm a big fan of them  And of you as well!


Thanks, actually I've never hear of them until you mentioned it, and you make a pretty awesome guitar yourself


All_¥our_Bass;1634268 said:


> That is a wonderful, beautiful looking guitar.
> 
> Promise you will make clips.



Thanks and of course.


----------



## phaeded0ut

Adam said:


> My Roland GR20 only reads up to 6 strings an I could not afford 2 of those units and 2 preamps ect.., but I had the bridge drilled for piezo wires on all 11 saddles, so maybe sometime in the future I will have all 11 strings on MIDI



Using Warr Guitars or Sticks as examples, you end up using two separate units (one for each group of 6 strings or in a 5/6 split on this instrument). I'd recommend going with RMC's, but again, you'll end up with two separate outputs on the MIDI end of things with two different converters. If possible, I'd recommend going with an Axon AX-100 mk II for the lower pitched strings and a Roland GI-20 for the higher pitched set. The only other bit of advice I'll give you is that on the bass end, you'll need to get used to playing ahead of the beat for the synth sounds and this space increases between lower pitched strings. 

Again, really pretty instrument, Adam! Looking forward to seeing more pictures of this beastie.


----------



## yingmin

phaeded0ut said:


> If possible, I'd recommend going with an Axon AX-100 mk II for the lower pitched strings and a Roland GI-20 for the higher pitched set.


 Why? It would be simpler just to go with two AX 100s, unless you were suggesting that he just route the straight MIDI output from the GI-20 into the AX 100, and I'm not sure that would work. Axon also makes an analogue of the GI-20. Do you know something I don't?


----------



## Adam

Update!
Heres some pics of the finished product sans the pickup in this pic you can see why I had to send it back:


----------



## TimSE

epic


----------



## Konfyouzd

that thing is sexually exciting


----------



## Adam

TimSE said:


> epic



Thanks, you have no idea how crazy the pickup situation is driving me it will be another 2 weeks till I get the corrected one. The MIDI works great though.


----------



## leftyguitarjoe

Wow!!! Its very nice looking. Have fun with it man. I know I would.


----------



## Konfyouzd

why does the arm contour look dull in comparison to the rest? just the pix?


----------



## Adam

Konfyouzd said:


> why does the arm contour look dull in comparison to the rest? just the pix?



Yeah its just the pic, the pic showing the angle of the contour is a better representation


----------



## flo

Konfyouzd said:


> why does the arm contour look dull in comparison to the rest? just the pix?


There is no maple veneer on the armrest, guess it's because of that. Maple=closed pores, ash=open pores, so ash doesn't reflect that much as maple
ah, and by by the way


----------



## Hollowway

Adam's Brain: Hmm, where should I have the lower horn cut out to?
Convention: Well, most guitars have it cut to around the 21st fret or so.
Adam's Brain: Screw that, I'm cutting it at the 40th fret.


----------



## Adam

flo said:


> There is no maple veneer on the armrest, guess it's because of that. Maple=closed pores, ash=open pores, so ash doesn't reflect that much as maple
> ah, and by by the way


Thanks man 


Hollowway said:


> Adam's Brain: Hmm, where should I have the lower horn cut out to?
> Convention: Well, most guitars have it cut to around the 21st fret or so.
> Adam's Brain: Screw that, I'm cutting it at the 40th fret.



 yeah its nice though the lower horn ends at the 26th fret and even then I have yet to bump into it past that Reaching the 41st fret is like reaching for the 23rd fret on most guitars


----------



## Konfyouzd

flo said:


> There is no maple veneer on the armrest, guess it's because of that. Maple=closed pores, ash=open pores, so ash doesn't reflect that much as maple
> ah, and by by the way



ooooohh... that's another thing... the grain is different. that makes sense now.


----------



## Hollowway

Apologies in advance if I missed this, but what gauges are you using on that thing? I saw how you were going to tune it, but not what specific gauges the strings are.


----------



## Adam

Hollowway said:


> Apologies in advance if I missed this, but what gauges are you using on that thing? I saw how you were going to tune it, but not what specific gauges the strings are.



No prob:
guages:.134(Garry goodmans G#0 string for the 30" scale) .115-.085-.065-.046-.036-.024-.016-.011-.009-.007(Garry's A4 string for the 30" scale)


----------



## Durero

Great work Adam 

I see you switched to an exposed core string for your low G#0. On my StickBass I've found that exposed core strings sound much clearer and brighter than regular strings.

Good luck with the pickup correction. I'm sure you're dying to play with all the strings amplified


----------



## Hollowway

So Adam, with the bridge, I notice you had to lift the lower saddles quite a bit to get the action at the correct level. Is that going to be OK, or will you need to shim the bridge? I don't know enough about that to have any idea. And also, are you going to crank out a vid once you get the pups?


----------



## damigu

holy crap! awesome! 

too bad about the pickup.

what tuning are you doing again?


----------



## MF_Kitten

whoa! you actually managed to keep the string spacing narrow enough to still be able to reach around the neck! that´s awesome!

it looks beastly and monstrous, and i love it


----------



## hufschmid

very nice man


----------



## Adam

Hollowway said:


> So Adam, with the bridge, I notice you had to lift the lower saddles quite a bit to get the action at the correct level. Is that going to be OK, or will you need to shim the bridge? I don't know enough about that to have any idea. And also, are you going to crank out a vid once you get the pups?


Actually it just the lowest string that I did that to, because it has no wrap at that area I had to raise the saddle higher to compensate for that, and yes a vid will be made


damigu said:


> holy crap! awesome!
> 
> too bad about the pickup.
> 
> what tuning are you doing again?


G#0 C#1 F#1 B1 E2 A2 D3 G3 B3 E4 A4


MF_Kitten said:


> whoa! you actually managed to keep the string spacing narrow enough to still be able to reach around the neck! that´s awesome!
> 
> it looks beastly and monstrous, and i love it


Thanks


hufschmid said:


> very nice man



Thanks


----------



## phaeded0ut

yingmin said:


> Why? It would be simpler just to go with two AX 100s, unless you were suggesting that he just route the straight MIDI output from the GI-20 into the AX 100, and I'm not sure that would work. Axon also makes an analogue of the GI-20. Do you know something I don't?



Damn, sorry it took quite so long to get back to answering this question, yingmin!

Just a little experience is all. The Axon AX-100 mkII is awesome and a little bit more accurate than the Roland GI-20 with lower pitched strings. Also, I found that the picking zones tend to be much more accurate/consistent with the Axon AX-100 mk II vs. other Axon products. The Roland GI-20 doesn't have said picking zones, but what it does have to it is the ease of use with less functionality. On the bass side, I wasn't one for changing voices/setups as frequently as I do on the treble side and the ease of use really comes into play therein. Another factor was that I was getting a bit more accuracy from the Roland GI-20 on the higher pitched strings*. 

When I'm talking about accuracy, I'm talking about the time in which it takes for the conversion box to take the pitch I've activated on the guitar to get turned into a MIDI signal. Warbles non-played notes, or cut-off notes are inaccurate translations between the pitch to MIDI signal. While, you're not going to get a 1:1 between your picking/plucking/activating a note to getting a MIDI signal sent to an outboard synthesizer and with pitches above and below an unwound 'g' (third string on your guitar). It ends up looking like an upside down bell curve relative to that note being closest to 0. 

* I ran these tests with the help of folks from [email protected] groups and this was done a few years back, and I know that both machines have had both Firmware and Software upgrades. These tests were somewhat skewed as I was using a software clock on the computer that was being sent MIDI command information from the respective conversion boxes. These tests were further skewed in that I was using my nails (finger picking) as my skills with a plectrum are rudimentary at best.

================================

Back on topic: WOW! I really love the colours that you've used on this instrument, Adam. Again, really sorry to see that the pickup had to be changed out for one that will be a kinder fit. Hopefully the manufacturer/vendor was kindly. Do you plan on creating a pickup cover for the pickup or are you gonna leave it naked?

Very glad to read that you're enjoying the MIDI end of your beastie. I've found that it is a blast to be able to switch voices, especially when people are expecting a guitar or bass and then they start hearing a flute, synthesizer or other instrument/sound.


----------



## Adam

phaeded0ut said:


> Damn, sorry it took quite so long to get back to answering this question, yingmin!
> 
> Just a little experience is all. The Axon AX-100 mkII is awesome and a little bit more accurate than the Roland GI-20 with lower pitched strings. Also, I found that the picking zones tend to be much more accurate/consistent with the Axon AX-100 mk II vs. other Axon products. The Roland GI-20 doesn't have said picking zones, but what it does have to it is the ease of use with less functionality. On the bass side, I wasn't one for changing voices/setups as frequently as I do on the treble side and the ease of use really comes into play therein. Another factor was that I was getting a bit more accuracy from the Roland GI-20 on the higher pitched strings*.
> 
> When I'm talking about accuracy, I'm talking about the time in which it takes for the conversion box to take the pitch I've activated on the guitar to get turned into a MIDI signal. Warbles non-played notes, or cut-off notes are inaccurate translations between the pitch to MIDI signal. While, you're not going to get a 1:1 between your picking/plucking/activating a note to getting a MIDI signal sent to an outboard synthesizer and with pitches above and below an unwound 'g' (third string on your guitar). It ends up looking like an upside down bell curve relative to that note being closest to 0.
> 
> * I ran these tests with the help of folks from [email protected] groups and this was done a few years back, and I know that both machines have had both Firmware and Software upgrades. These tests were somewhat skewed as I was using a software clock on the computer that was being sent MIDI command information from the respective conversion boxes. These tests were further skewed in that I was using my nails (finger picking) as my skills with a plectrum are rudimentary at best.
> 
> ================================
> 
> Back on topic: WOW! I really love the colours that you've used on this instrument, Adam. Again, really sorry to see that the pickup had to be changed out for one that will be a kinder fit. Hopefully the manufacturer/vendor was kindly. Do you plan on creating a pickup cover for the pickup or are you gonna leave it naked?
> 
> Very glad to read that you're enjoying the MIDI end of your beastie. I've found that it is a blast to be able to switch voices, especially when people are expecting a guitar or bass and then they start hearing a flute, synthesizer or other instrument/sound.



Thanks, yeah Nordstrand was cool about it, they only charged me an additional $50 to completly rebuild it. I dont know if he offers pickup coverws but I dont mind if there is none. Yeah the MIDI is great, it would be nice to try out the Axon though. Also an FYI for everybody about ROlands MIDI products, it only reads 27 notes per string including the open note, so my 15 additional frets are redundant when using MIDI


----------



## Apophis

wow, it looks awesome, pure BEAST


----------



## phaeded0ut

Adam said:


> Yeah the MIDI is great, it would be nice to try out the Axon though. Also an FYI for everybody about ROlands MIDI products, it only reads 27 notes per string including the open note, so my 15 additional frets are redundant when using MIDI



OUCH! I didn't know about that limitation. Granted, I've only ever used 21 and 24 fret guitars/basses.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Adam said:


> Thanks, yeah Nordstrand was cool about it, they only charged me an additional $50 to completly rebuild it. I dont know if he offers pickup coverws but I dont mind if there is none. Yeah the MIDI is great, it would be nice to try out the Axon though. Also an FYI for everybody about ROlands MIDI products, it only reads 27 notes per string including the open note, so my 15 additional frets are redundant when using MIDI


that's weird about the MIDI thing. why is that? or is that just one of those things that "just is"?


----------



## phaeded0ut

It's unfortunately an issue of how Roland's approach/method of identifying a note via harmonics vs. what note is actually played. If my memory serves it does this by 4 or 5 points (I'm leaning towards 4 points).

Shadow was the same way as Roland with their conversion brain/pickup system.

I don't remember what Axon did differently other than it used the full wave form vs. points of harmonics within a database of sound waves to generate a particular note. It's a matter of what is being used for the comparison... I'd be interested to see if Axon has this problem.


----------



## damigu

Adam said:


> G#0 C#1 F#1 B1 E2 A2 D3 G3 B3 E4 A4



nice. what are you playing it through?

i'm looking forward to the vid.


----------



## Adam

damigu said:


> nice. what are you playing it through?
> 
> i'm looking forward to the vid.



As of right now just a Carvin MTS3200 with Eminance Swamp Thangs, I 'min the market for a good keyboard amp though.


----------



## leftyguitarjoe

Adam said:


> As of right now just a Carvin MTS3200 with Eminance Swamp Thangs, I 'min the market for a good keyboard amp though.



You might want 2 cabinets, one with bass-sized speakers, one with guitar-sized speakers.


----------



## Adam

leftyguitarjoe said:


> You might want 2 cabinets, one with bass-sized speakers, one with guitar-sized speakers.



I had planned that at first, but how do you stop the low end from going through the guitar cab?


----------



## TemjinStrife

Adam said:


> I had planned that at first, but how do you stop the low end from going through the guitar cab?



A good crossover... they make rackmountable versions and there might even be a pedal out there that'll do it too.


----------



## Adam

TemjinStrife said:


> A good crossover... they make rackmountable versions and there might even be a pedal out there that'll do it too.



Is there an affordable version of either?


----------



## yingmin

Adam said:


> Is there an affordable version of either?


I'm sure Behringer and/or Nady make a crossover for around $100. The trick is that to use it properly, you would need either a stereo effects loop and stereo speaker outs, or a seperate pre and power amp.

edit: like this one: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Behringer-SUPER-X-PRO-CX2310-Crossover-182466-i1125204.gc


phaeded0ut said:


> Warbles non-played notes, or cut-off notes are inaccurate translations between the pitch to MIDI signal. While, you're not going to get a 1:1 between your picking/plucking/activating a note to getting a MIDI signal sent to an outboard synthesizer and with pitches above and below an unwound 'g' (third string on your guitar). It ends up looking like an upside down bell curve relative to that note being closest to 0.


Could you rephrase that? I don't quite get what you're saying.


----------



## phaeded0ut

yingmin said:


> Could you rephrase that? I don't quite get what you're saying.



Sure thing, what happens is that the unwound g string (typically around a .017) is the best string to get the highest accuracy out of the different conversion boxes out there. You'd occasionally see earlier guitar-synth players make this switch (all six strings were .016 to .018's) who were only looking for the synth sounds. This said, my statement concerning, "... the upside down bell curve is about the time to produce a MIDI command after the string is activated," is really saying after the 'g' string, the others will take longer for the conversion box to generate a MIDI command. So, on a 6-string guitar you'll have about the following results with standard tuning:

E (high) string will take a little longer than the B string (these might be more equal to the B string with piezo pickups).
B string will take a little longer than the G string.
G string gives you the fastest tracking.
D string may be slightly faster than the B or not depending upon the pickup used.
A string will be a little slower than the D or more depending upon the pickup used.
E string will be a slower than the A string, and may be much slower depending upon the pickup used.

If you're using magnetic hex pickups, the tracking on the lower notes is going to be slower due to the increased cross talk between strings relative to either piezo or lightwave pickups.

PM me if you have any more questions.

Again, sorry for the hijack on this thread. Can't wait to see the new pickup in this guitar.

Oh! What about the mini guitar? Any new pictures of that?


----------



## Adam

phaeded0ut said:


> Sure thing, what happens is that the unwound g string (typically around a .017) is the best string to get the highest accuracy out of the different conversion boxes out there. You'd occasionally see earlier guitar-synth players make this switch (all six strings were .016 to .018's) who were only looking for the synth sounds. This said, my statement concerning, "... the upside down bell curve is about the time to produce a MIDI command after the string is activated," is really saying after the 'g' string, the others will take longer for the conversion box to generate a MIDI command. So, on a 6-string guitar you'll have about the following results with standard tuning:
> 
> E (high) string will take a little longer than the B string (these might be more equal to the B string with piezo pickups).
> B string will take a little longer than the G string.
> G string gives you the fastest tracking.
> D string may be slightly faster than the B or not depending upon the pickup used.
> A string will be a little slower than the D or more depending upon the pickup used.
> E string will be a slower than the A string, and may be much slower depending upon the pickup used.
> 
> If you're using magnetic hex pickups, the tracking on the lower notes is going to be slower due to the increased cross talk between strings relative to either piezo or lightwave pickups.
> 
> PM me if you have any more questions.
> 
> Again, sorry for the hijack on this thread. Can't wait to see the new pickup in this guitar.
> 
> Oh! What about the mini guitar? Any new pictures of that?



Nope no progress on it yet, but thae only thing left is to slot the fretboard and fret it, then I can start applying finish


----------



## phaeded0ut

No smiley for this amount of drool of bookmatched guitars... Hopefully, you've MIDI'ed that one up, too! Thoughts of taking those out on gigs are dancing through my noggin.


----------



## Adam

phaeded0ut said:


> No smiley for this amount of drool of bookmatched guitars... Hopefully, you've MIDI'ed that one up, too! Thoughts of taking those out on gigs are dancing through my noggin.



Nah I havent MIDI'd that one, I have this SX 6 stringer MIDI'd up with the Roland GK3 that came with the GR20


----------



## MF_Kitten

i would run it through a bass amp and a guitar amp at the sime time, EQing it so that the bass amp takes care of the lows while the guitar amp takes care of the highs (done this before)


----------



## Adam

Pickup problem has been corrected and is on its way back Also Garry Goodman is sending some new A4 strings to try, my last one snapped due to a sharp metal edge on the bridge. and a new G#0 string with a more tension but same size (.134).


----------



## pirateparty

The thought of trying to play the low G# on the highest fret makes my brain hurt.


----------



## MF_Kitten

i would´ve gotten a string that didn´t have an exposed core. i´d rather get a tapered one that is "normal" string thickness over the saddle. sounds better and is easier to intonate that way


----------



## Adam

MF_Kitten said:


> i would´ve gotten a string that didn´t have an exposed core. i´d rather get a tapered one that is "normal" string thickness over the saddle. sounds better and is easier to intonate that way



Problem is though that with a string that thick on a guitar saddle puts alot of pressure on it, and this a graphtech saddle and not a metal one. When I tried to put a regular .145 all the way through it shattered the saddle when I tuned it up, good thing I had a spare. Also if you lok at this pic you can see that it is impossible to have the string all the way through when the saddle is raised thanks to the extra wrapping near the ball end:






I have to agree with Leo though, it sounds better acousticaly with the exposed core, less dull


----------



## Durero

Yup in my experience the exposed core strings sound much much better and are easier to intonate than regular or taper core strings.

Knucklehead basses also highly recommends them.


----------



## SpaceDock

I clicked on the thread and then...


----------



## canuck brian

Adam said:


> http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h156/Adam_Lacoursiere/HPIM0266.jpg[/IMG]
> I have to agree with Leo though, it sounds better acousticaly with the exposed core, less dull



I'm happy to see that fretboard in use.  Glad it worked out!


----------



## vansinn

> Originally Posted by leftyguitarjoe
> You might want 2 cabinets, one with bass-sized speakers, one with guitar-sized speakers.





Adam said:


> I had planned that at first, but how do you stop the low end from going through the guitar cab?



Or try to obtain an (hard to get, I know) ADA MB-1 bass processor with build-in tuneable crossover. It's actually pretty good for guitars too, though it's (programmable) contours, filters and distortions aren't layed out specifically for guitar.
However, especially when going low, being able to mix both a SS clean and a less-distorted tube sound can result in some really nice well-defined lows, where a dedicated guitar preamp may result in the lows being too distorted for clarity.

It's two separate S/R loops are stacked in parallel after the pre section. If you mod the loops to have a separate loop for the SS and tube preamps, you'll be able to i.e. use the tube pre purely for the low notes, and the SS clean with an external guitar preamp for the higher stuff, and then use the bi-amping outs into two separate amps/cabs.

I have both an MB-1 and an MP-2 and have been thinking about creating a couple of useful mods for using my MB-1 for both bass and for guitars, because it can make some pretty interesting tones I can't seem to get elsehow.


----------



## Adam

Some updated pics with new Nordstrand humbucker!




Group shot:


----------



## damigu

yowza! what a monster!

awesome!


----------



## Tom Drinkwater

That is beauty. Please don't wait to post videos. We all know you just built it so we don't expect you to be well practiced on it yet.


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## Apophis

Looks HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!


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## hufschmid

I like the guitar differences on that picture...

a 6 string...... then you wondered probaly 

hell yeah i'm going to build an 8........ then you wondered again 

hell yeah an 11 string!!!!

awesome


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## ralphy1976

i wonder how you "play" it. do you use a double hand tapping technique or just regular guitar chords just moved up and down the neck?


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## xmetalhead69

those low notes wont even sound like music  

that is insanity. you are a brave brave man


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## Adam

damigu said:


> yowza! what a monster!
> 
> awesome!


Thanks


Tom Drinkwater said:


> That is beauty. Please don't wait to post videos. We all know you just built it so we don't expect you to be well practiced on it yet.


Im still waiting on my A4 strings for the 30" scale, and a better G#0 string from Garry Goodman. Right now Im using a D'darrio .007 for a high G4, but it snaps when doing bends But do not worry as soon as the guitar is strung up with the correct string I will post 2 vids, one explaining the guitar, and a second of just me playing it.


Apophis said:


> Looks HUGE !!!!!!!!!!!!


I'll post a pic soon to show a comparison between me and the guitar


hufschmid said:


> I like the guitar differences on that picture...
> 
> a 6 string...... then you wondered probaly
> 
> hell yeah i'm going to build an 8........ then you wondered again
> 
> hell yeah an 11 string!!!!
> 
> awesome


Thanks


ralphy1976 said:


> i wonder how you "play" it. do you use a double hand tapping technique or just regular guitar chords just moved up and down the neck?


Right now just like a regular guitar, but I will learn how to do some touchstyle later.


xmetalhead69 said:


> those low notes wont even sound like music
> 
> that is insanity. you are a brave brave man


Actually the lowest note G#0 is just one semi-tone below A0, the first note on a 88 keypiano, and it sounds great in person. Or think of it this way, Drop A on a 5 string bass, but just one semitone lower G#.


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## phaeded0ut

Beautiful!


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## MF_Kitten

i´d love to try this thing out, that thing is cool. i can imagine it sounding great for tapping stuff with a really clean tone with deep bass


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## Xanithon

WAITING FOR CLIPS! is threadwatching nao


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## ellengtrgrl

What can I say, but WOW!!!   I'd LOVE to give that guitar a try!! It looks great! Like everybody else, I can't wait for the video!


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## SD83

WOW! That is totally insane... in a good way


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## Adam

Video is still on hold waiting on a new camera and there have been some problems with the high A for this guitar, I'm going to test out Garry Goodmans .005 for the 30" scale, it hasnt gottent he best results with his string through guitar, but since mine is a top loader it may work. Less tension Also he's also sending me a new .140 G#0 string with less exposed core at the bridge, and more tension
Anyway I will appease ss.org with some new pics





























Pinky cover frets 39-41! But they are playable!
















This guitar goes to 11


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## lurgar

That is absolutely beautiful and insane!


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## damigu

Adam said:


> This guitar goes to 11





you ain't kidding.


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## caughtinamosh

I don't understand how a bridge being top-loading would result in lower string tension.  Surely a string has to be a set tension to produce a note regardless of how it's mounted on the bridge.


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## Adam

caughtinamosh said:


> I don't understand how a bridge being top-loading would result in lower string tension.  Surely a string has to be a set tension to produce a note regardless of how it's mounted on the bridge.


Garry was telling me that its about 1lb of difference because of the break angle.


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## caughtinamosh

Adam said:


> Garry was telling me that its about 1lb of difference because of the break angle.


 


I didn't think that it would make the blindest bit of difference, but I imagine that he of all people would know what he's talking about.


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## Adam

caughtinamosh said:


> I didn't think that it would make the blindest bit of difference, but I imagine that he of all people would know what he's talking about.



It's really noticible on the low strings, my buddy has the olp 30" baritone and there is alot of difference between our low F#'s, we both use the same GHS .085 bass string and his F# is way stiffer.


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## caughtinamosh

That may be because of the position of the intonation saddles. They tend to be further back on really low-tuned strings, creating a sharper break angle (this is going by Gary's word that sharper break angles increase the tension).

I questioned whether the bridge style would make any difference because online string tension calculators do not ask for break angles - only the note, gauge and string type.


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## damigu

there are some subtleties to string tension that are usually ignored, namely the stiffness of the metal itself and the gauge of the core (for wound strings).
if you change those, you can get slightly different tensions for the same note at the same scale.

also, i'm seeing that he's using bass strings that aren't wound at the bridge side (AKA "taper wound"). that little non-wound part affects the tension required to bring the string up to pitch.


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## Adam

damigu said:


> there are some subtleties to string tension that are usually ignored, namely the stiffness of the metal itself and the gauge of the core (for wound strings).
> if you change those, you can get slightly different tensions for the same note at the same scale.
> 
> also, i'm seeing that he's using bass strings that aren't wound at the bridge side (AKA "taper wound"). that little non-wound part affects the tension required to bring the string up to pitch.



Yeah thats Garrys special G#0 string, its much easier to intonate and fit through the bridge than a regular .134 string.


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## Rick

Holy shit!








You cut your hair!


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## caughtinamosh

Yes, I noticed that too (recalling from the high A demonstration video).


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## Adam

Rick said:


> Holy shit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cut your hair!






caughtinamosh said:


> Yes, I noticed that too (recalling from the high A demonstration video).



Believe it or not, that video was shot after getting a major haircut, it was down to my elbows before I cut it


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## TomAwesome

The guitar looks great! I look forward to the video.


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## All_¥our_Bass

That guitar is *SO HOT!!!!*


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## Adam

TomAwesome said:


> The guitar looks great! I look forward to the video.


Me too


All_¥our_Bass;1682765 said:


> That guitar is *SO HOT!!!!*



Thanks


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## daemon barbeque

Congrat's Adam, you achieved a big thing actually. That instrument (Not a guitar anymore) is just Awesome, and any word besides that won't express my feelings. A mout full of AAAAAAWWWEESOOOMMEE! is the way I would express it!


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## Durero

^ 


Thanks for the awesome & inspiring pics Adam 

I love that the knobs go to 11


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## Adam

daemon barbeque said:


> Congrat's Adam, you achieved a big thing actually. That instrument (Not a guitar anymore) is just Awesome, and any word besides that won't express my feelings. A mout full of AAAAAAWWWEESOOOMMEE! is the way I would express it!



Thanks yah the only thing that still makes it somewhat of a guitar is the tuning, I like to think of it as a grand guitar, like a grand piano. I can't wait for some more pics of your Roter


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## Adam

Durero said:


> ^
> 
> 
> Thanks for the awesome & inspiring pics Adam
> 
> I love that the knobs go to 11



Thanks man, Im thinking of doing the same thing again but with a 29"-33" fan and only 39 frets.


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## flo

Adam said:


> only 39 frets.


Love your sence of humor


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## Adam

flo said:


> Love your sence of humor



 Yeah, the 40th fret is playable but the 41st is really hard to play with your finger, I have to use my nail the rest of the time. So having 39 frets will still give me a C8 and thats all I really need.


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## Adam

Update: New camera is in, as well as my replacement MIDI parts from graphtech, all I'm waiting on now is the G#0 string and A4 string from Garry and then I will start recording a few vids for you guys


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## AlexThorpe

Adam said:


> Update: New camera is in, as well as my replacement MIDI parts from graphtech, all I'm waiting on now is the G#0 string and A4 string from Garry and then I will start recording a few vids for you guys



I absolutely can not wait to see/hear this in action!


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## phaeded0ut

AlexThorpe said:


> I absolutely can not wait to see/hear this in action!




Here, Hear, Here!


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## Xanithon

WAITING!!!


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## snuif09

video now plox =)


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## Adam

Still waiting on my High A strings But for those that were interested in the octave guitar heres a little update:


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## MF_Kitten

i´m actually pretty excited to see ho the octave guitar ends up sounding... i really want a guitar tuned an octave higher myself.


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## Esp Griffyn

That is one crazy ass instrument, can't wait for a vid!


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## Adam

Strings are finally in! 

But have to wait till 4pm to pick them up from the post office After the string has its proper stretching time I will start on the video.


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## Adam

Some pics of the finished octave guitar:


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## Apophis

interesting design  you follow very nice ideas making your instruments, what is awesome and important :


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## Xanithon

still waiting for videos  - i also want to hear the octave guitar 
looking good man


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## Erik Hauri

How did I miss this?!?!

Those 11 knobs are pure win - the only knobs that should be used with an 11.

I will be very interested to hear how the high-A works out on 30".

All the string-tension talk boils down to this - the "real" string tension is the tension between the nut & saddle, and doesn't change if you have a string-thru, or tilt-back headstock, etc etc. Those factors affect the "felt" string tension to the player, because of the lack of stretch behind the saddle and in front of the nut. 

That's one reason why its easier to bend the higher strings on a Strat than a Les Paul, because you have so much string between the nut and tuner post that will stretch when you bend - even though the Strat has higher overall string tension due to the longer scale, it feel more supple for bending.

OK - now the obligatory foot-shot GOTCHA


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## Adam

Erik Hauri said:


> How did I miss this?!?!
> 
> Those 11 knobs are pure win - the only knobs that should be used with an 11.
> 
> I will be very interested to hear how the high-A works out on 30".
> 
> All the string-tension talk boils down to this - the "real" string tension is the tension between the nut & saddle, and doesn't change if you have a string-thru, or tilt-back headstock, etc etc. Those factors affect the "felt" string tension to the player, because of the lack of stretch behind the saddle and in front of the nut.
> 
> That's one reason why its easier to bend the higher strings on a Strat than a Les Paul, because you have so much string between the nut and tuner post that will stretch when you bend - even though the Strat has higher overall string tension due to the longer scale, it feel more supple for bending.
> 
> OK - now the obligatory foot-shot GOTCHA


Thanks 
For Garrys high A strings they did seem to make a difference b/w back loading and top loading, for stretch time and stress on the wire same goes with the distance and angle b/w the nut and tuner. The low strings however, there is only a minimal difference in feel.


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## Adam

Oh I just tuned Garrys .005 high A string to E4 and am now letting it sit there for 24 hours before I can gently ease up half steps to A4


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## Scarpie

you know i was wondering if you could really share how the 9th and 10th strings sound in the video, cause too many videos are all about the shred factor and i find it most annoying when the guitars are typically loaded with lower tuned strings. hahaha


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## Adam

Scarpie said:


> you know i was wondering if you could really share how the 9th and 10th strings sound in the video, cause too many videos are all about the shred factor and i find it most annoying when the guitars are typically loaded with lower tuned strings. hahaha



Dont worry I will be showing ALL the range of this instrument, do you mean the 10th and 11th? as in the C#1 and G#0 or do you mean the F#1 and C#1?


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## Scarpie

Adam said:


> Dont worry I will be showing ALL the range of this instrument, do you mean the 10th and 11th? as in the C#1 and G#0 or do you mean the F#1 and C#1?



 yes i meant the 10th and 11th hahahaha i am a low end junkie. but thanks for addressing my concern


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## Adam

Scarpie said:


> yes i meant the 10th and 11th hahahaha i am a low end junkie. but thanks for addressing my concern



No prob, and yes I will to show my best to exaggerate the low end of this beast, but keep in mind that G#0 will not be as clear as a B1 or an F#1 But the Nordstrand honestly makes it sound as clear as it can possibly be at that scale , guage of string and with my current setup it is not a high output pickup mind you, it is at most a medium output, and it has Alnico 5 magnets, but I installed a overdrive boost that gives it a bit more gain and more presence.


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## MF_Kitten

i too am annoyed when i watch a video with a 7 or 8 string (or more), and they play shred stuff on the highest frets of the highest strings, as if it demonstrates anything about the added range. blah!


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## Adam

MF_Kitten said:


> i too am annoyed when i watch a video with a 7 or 8 string (or more), and they play shred stuff on the highest frets of the highest strings, as if it demonstrates anything about the added range. blah!



In this case though it would be appropriate to show off the highest frets, since no other guitar has this kind of range in the high end, but don't worry shreddy stuff will be kept to a minumum, as I suck

I'm still trying to figure out what to play to show off the low end of this beast though, anything you or anyone else would like to see?


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## troyguitar

I'm trying to figure out what the hell to play on my 9-string now too 

I feel like I now have a LOT more to learn to be a proficient player - and you've got roughly a whole octave more range than me.


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## Adam

troyguitar said:


> I'm trying to figure out what the hell to play on my 9-string now too
> 
> I feel like I now have a LOT more to learn to be a proficient player - and you've got roughly a whole octave more range than me.



15 more notes so yeah 1-1/4 more octaves , and same here I fell like a noob on this, but I am progressing, and so will you.


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## Cheesebuiscut

Start off with a slow half step run just to show off all the notes, 5 notes on the lowest string work your way all the way to the highest then play all the frets up to 41 

I'm really curious wtf that high of a notes gonna be like. I can hardly take the high F# on my one guitar on the highest few frets I can't imagine a high A 41st fret.


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## Adam

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Start off with a slow half step run just to show off all the notes, 5 notes on the lowest string work your way all the way to the highest then play all the frets up to 41
> 
> I'm really curious wtf that high of a notes gonna be like. I can hardly take the high F# on my one guitar on the highest few frets I can't imagine a high A 41st fret.



Thanks I was planning to do the run to show all the notes as the most obvious thing to do but, I cant think of anything esle but showing power chords, scales, low note runs ect.. If you played a 88 key piano before, imagine the last key - C8, but 2 notes higher. What guitar do you have that has more than 24 frets?


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## Hollowway

Holy perspective, Batman! I just saw that octave guitar and I didn't realize how tiny it was until I saw it in the family shot! What's the story on that guy? What is the tuning?


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## Erik Hauri

Adam said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what to play to show off the low end of this beast though, anything you or anyone else would like to see?



The Mario Bros theme....


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## Adam

Hollowway said:


> Holy perspective, Batman! I just saw that octave guitar and I didn't realize how tiny it was until I saw it in the family shot! What's the story on that guy? What is the tuning?


An octave above regular 6 string tuning, its like capoing the 12 fret on your guitar. I made it with scrap wood from the 11, spare parts, leftover paint ect.., wanted to play some violin/mandolin music with it, fun little instrument, it has its place.



Erik Hauri said:


> The Mario Bros theme....



I'll see about that one I havent mastered touch style yet unless you want me to play the lead part of the theme a few octaves lower


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## wannabguitarist

Your sir are insane


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## Seebu

Adam said:


> I'll see about that one I havent mastered touch style yet unless you want me to play the lead part of the theme a few octaves lower


Do this and my people will worship thine name for aeons to come.


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## Adam

Seebu said:


> Do this and my people will worship thine name for aeons to come.



Wait wut?


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## Scarpie

people stop distracting adam. HE HAS WORK TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Adam

wannabguitarist said:


> Your sir are insane


Thanks


Scarpie said:


> people stop distracting adam. HE HAS WORK TO DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Unfortunetly my first .005 snapped it was just like an 1/8 of a step to A4, starting on the 2nd one, will take roughly 26 hours to reach A4.


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## Scarpie

oh for god's sake!!!!!!!! screw the high A we've all seen the other vid, but we haven't been privelidged to experiencing a low C#1, nor G#0






but cant really show off a 11 string guitar without 11 strings so i understand. hahahaha


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## Adam

Scarpie said:


> oh for god's sake!!!!!!!! screw the high A we've all seen the other vid, but we haven't been privelidged to experiencing a low C#1, nor G#0



 Well I guess I could make a small vid for you guys, if this string doesent work I will wait for the next prototype strings to come in, and just use a d'addario .007 for the high G4 in the meantime. I can make a vid demoing just the low end just for you guys
Any suggestions for what to play in the vid?
I've got mario bros theme 2 octaves lower as a suggestion so far.

Anything else?


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## Scarpie

well it's pretty damn awesome of you to even consider it, cause i was just kidding. but as far as the G# i would play around with bulbs icarus lives, or korn's opening riff in "here to stay" which used a octave drop preset of a whammy pedal to pull off the A0. but it's really your call bro. whatever will do for me. so thanks


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## Wi77iam

Some original material mate, as long as you explore the whole range of this thing.
Maybe just some diminished and harmonic minor runs from the lowest to highest end and back  and some tri-tones please  METAL!


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## Adam

Wi77iam said:


> Some original material mate, as long as you explore the whole range of this thing.
> Maybe just some diminished and harmonic minor runs from the lowest to highest end and back  and some tri-tones please  METAL!



It will most likely be strung with a high G4 instead of an A4 at the time of this video, so 2 high notes will be missing I'll try screwing around a bit see what I come up with.


----------



## Adam

Scarpie said:


> well it's pretty damn awesome of you to even consider it, cause i was just kidding. but as far as the G# i would play around with bulbs icarus lives, or korn's opening riff in "here to stay" which used a octave drop preset of a whammy pedal to pull off the A0. but it's really your call bro. whatever will do for me. so thanks



I'll do here to stay, I love bulbs music but never tried the "djent" thing out, so I dont know if I could play that piece well.


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## caskettheclown

will you even need a bass player if you play shows!??

seriously though, that guitar looks amazing, i'm very filled will envy


----------



## Adam

caskettheclown said:


> will you even need a bass player if you play shows!??
> 
> seriously though, that guitar looks amazing, i'm very filled will envy



Thanks, If I start playing shows with it, my bass player wold have to get an 8 string bass that would be an octave down from my guitar (G#00, C#0, F#0, B0, E1, A2, D3, G3)


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## Cheesebuiscut

Or he could tune the same as your low end and dial in more low end.

You could do the tweedly deedly while he vibrates everyones balls out of place.

No point in inaudible notes


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## Scarpie

Cheesebuiscut said:


> Or he could tune the same as your low end and dial in more low end.
> 
> You could do the tweedly deedly while he vibrates everyones balls out of place.
> 
> No point in inaudible notes




yeah i have to say i totally agree. the low F# is as low as i would go on bass. the C#1 sounds fine when bass accompanies that pitch on guitar. and the G#0 may even be more noticeable from the low end of the bass guitar. 
besides a C#0 is hardly audible in a musical sense. not to mention the G#00


----------



## MrSoLowBLow

whoa now I want a 11-string, that is tight a extra low and extra high string, dude your a freaking genius, I would so buy one from you, I give this rating a 10 for sheer-awesomeness


----------



## Adam

MrSoLowBLow said:


> whoa now I want a 11-string, that is tight a extra low and extra high string, dude your a freaking genius, I would so buy one from you, I give this rating a 10 for sheer-awesomeness



Um thanks I've only built 4 guitars, so I'm in no position to sell any guitar I make.
Check out the vid in the new thread I made
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/102511-preview-video-of-my-11-string.html


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## a1a2a3a4

I feel inadequate with my 8 string..


----------



## space frog

I wanted an 8 string guitar and thought I'd be nice  .


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## WhitechapelCS

At first glance I thought the front was a little odd, the body anyway...but from the back, I think it looks amazing, absolutely. 
The wood choice is beautiful, the inlays are pretty freakin cool considering you had such big frets to run back and forth across. 
My only thing I wouldve changed is the finish, but other than that In my honest opinion its one of the coolest fucking guitars on this site and THATS definitely saying something.


----------



## Adam

WhitechapelCS said:


> At first glance I thought the front was a little odd, the body anyway...but from the back, I think it looks amazing, absolutely.
> The wood choice is beautiful, the inlays are pretty freakin cool considering you had such big frets to run back and forth across.
> My only thing I wouldve changed is the finish, but other than that In my honest opinion its one of the coolest fucking guitars on this site and THATS definitely saying something.



Thanks! Blue+natural maple just happens to be my favourite combo so that explains the finish, Im going to try something different for the finalized version. 

Oh and an update on finalized string guages(at 30" scale):
G#0 -Garry Goodman custom .140 string(about 22 lbs.)
C#1 - .105(22.3lbs)
F#1 - .080(23 lbs)
B1 - .060(23.6 lbs)
E2 - .046(24.2 lbs)
A2 - .036(27 lbs)
D3 - .026(25.4 lbs)
G3 - .017(22.9 lbs)
B3 - .013(21.3 lbs)
E4 - .010(22.4 lbs)
A4 - custom .005-.007(waiting on a new version of the string)

Also to note: I made the neck too damn strong It barely bows at all with these guages in standard tuning, the trussrod has no tension on it at all.


----------



## Adam

SKJORH said:


> Mate, HOW do you do this??? I'd like to try my hand at this kind of thing but, how would I go about the neck making etc.?



Not with ease thats for sure, this was my first time at something more than 8 strings, and with no way to referance another 11 string it was a pain in the ass. Could you be a bit more specific?


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## troyguitar

Adam said:


> Also to note: I made the neck too damn strong It barely bows at all with these guages in standard tuning, the trussrod has no tension on it at all.



My 9-string is the same way, even with it tuned up to major thirds. The tension ramps up from ~15 lbs on the first string to ~34 lbs on the 9th but the neck doesn't move at all


----------



## Adam

troyguitar said:


> My 9-string is the same way, even with it tuned up to major thirds. The tension ramps up from ~15 lbs on the first string to ~34 lbs on the 9th but the neck doesn't move at all



To be fair though you had a VERY thick neck, mines just under an inch. Next time Im going to use regular non martin style truss rods and maybe thin the neck out a bit more, but still use the carbon fiber rods. Im thinking of upping the guages to cause a bit of bowing, its literally dead straight.


----------



## troyguitar

Yeah I made the neck too thick. I'm going to try a much thinner neck next (~0.8"), still with just a single standard truss rod. With any luck it will still be plenty strong.


----------

