# Band Member Problems (Rant Incoming)



## ScurrilousNerd (Aug 14, 2014)

Sorry if this is in the wrong subforum - I just needed somewhere to rant a bit and possibly get opinions on what I should do.


For about 3 years now I've been in a band that has been almost always frustrating for me - as I am the one who seems to have to do everything. Now, I also seem to be the only one who is serious about the band and willing to put a lot of work in. [FYI we are really young - started when we were 14/15 now we're all 17/18]. 

At first we had two guitarists, myself and a guy I'll call J. We recorded a 3-song EP with J in the band, and it came out absolute garbage (pathoftheblackleaves.bandcamp.com if you wanna subject yourself to it). We narrowed it down to the engineer not knowing how to record metal guitars / vocals, and some sloppy playing on everyone's part, but especially J's. We decided to boot him out because of that and his lack of writing skills / contributions, as well as his horrendous guitar tone (all in the hands).

After that things started looking up, we wrote some killer tunes and started to get a solid amount of shows. 

Slowly, our vocalist stopped coming to practice because he couldn't find a ride (he lives about 30 minutes away and is cousins with the drummer ) Now, we haven't practiced with him in 4 months but he still comes to shows and pretty much nails his parts, and is a really solid vocalist. He also doesn't write his lyrics and seems to struggle with vocal arrangement - but has a really good sounding technique. The worst communication skills I have ever seen.

Our drummer is also a really solid player and comes up with some unique parts, but has issues with recording to a click and keeping time in general. He also is terrible at consistent bass drum patterns, as in he won't play it the same every time. This is why --> He also rarely practices by himself, so he has sort of plateaued in skill. He is also a committed basketball player and is therefore really busy, but is good at making time for practice. Sometimes poor communication skills.

The bassist. Excellent player, writes amazing bass lines that I could never come up with, but has issues with going out of key in his parts (which sometimes he doesn't recognize) and is staunchly against playing "root notes", meaning he hates following the guitar parts directly, which can lead to some, err, bad sounds. He also smokes a ton of weed, and buys a ton of weed, so he has no money for equipment, hence why we practice with bass going through an old 30w line 6 spider. Also my best friend of 7 years. He is moving to British Columbia (other side of the country) after high school (we are seniors now). He also starts side projects nearly every summer and then spends all his time on that and seems disinterested in the "main" band.

I like to think that I have some pretty solid songs and ideas, and really want to be in a serious band. The original plan was to finish writing and recording an album with this lineup to "prove" what we can do, and then I would recruit members using that, but now I'm thinking not. 

TL;DR - my (17 y/o) bandmates are great players, but all have issues and none seem to be seriously invested.

Sorry again for the rant


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## zombieritual (Aug 14, 2014)

if they're not on the same page as you are and don't have the same goals then they're holding you back and you're going to be pissed at yourself later on if you keep wasting time with it and not doing what you want to do, trust me. find dudes that want to do what you want to do, you'll be MUCH happier.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Aug 14, 2014)

^^ Yup, I'd start looking for something else. If you are the primary writer, try and start your own new thing even. Put ads up to recruit new members, and make it known in the ad you won't tolerate slackers. That will weed out the weaker players.

There's going to be issues with members in most bands, but you need guys that can hold their own on their instruments. If you are constantly thinking "I could do it better" then there's a problem. Having a drummer with great timing can be the difference between a lousy band and a good one.

If you are serious about your playing and band, find some like minded and ability level bandmates. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do! Like the other poster says, time flies, so don't waste it with bandmates who aren't on the same page as yourself.


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## TedEH (Aug 14, 2014)

ScurrilousNerd said:


> I've been in a band that has been almost always frustrating for me...my bandmates are great players, but all have issues and none seem to be seriously invested.



I think if you're going to be in a band for the sake of enjoying it (and you can interpret that in different ways), then it's not always about who's the best player, or having all the most brilliant musical ideas, or having all the best equipment- the key is having everyone on the same page, or at least be on compatible pages. Being in that band becomes comparable to a relationship sort of, where you have to ask yourself if you're still in that band because it's going somewhere or you enjoy it, or if you're just uncomfortable making changes or leaving.

I'm not saying quit or disband or whatever you might call it. I'm saying that maybe you should try to determine what the others are getting out of being in the band, what they want from the band, what they want to contribute or learn or whatever else, and if you can't bring everyone else in line with what you want to do, then maybe you need to adjust to them instead. If they all see it as a side project, then make it a side project and find another band to be your "main band". If other members have trouble playing parts, maybe you need to simplify the writing style. If people can't make it to jam, improvise, help them, replace them, etc. 

Maybe it's time to find or form a new band altogether. Have two bands. Have three- and a solo project.


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## JoshuaKaroshi (Aug 14, 2014)

I second the notion of splitting apart from them and doing things your way. I remember being 17 (not too long ago. I'm only 21) and also being fed up with people around me for not being on the same page as myself. In hindsight, my frustrations were unjustified because at that age you are still growing into the person you will later become and because of this, nobody is at the same spot. Everyone balances their priorities differently. Some don't and will never seem to have priorities. It's a weird life stage.

The music is in your head. I think you would benefit the most if you do things solo to start and slowly incorporate other musicians into the project over time. You seem to be the kind of person who values jamming with people and is into the whole "band dynamic" but is also serious about getting shit done. I think if you pursue this route with your music you will be able to successfully create the music that YOU want to write and over time the right people will fall into the equation, making the band side of things a working reality.


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## ScurrilousNerd (Aug 14, 2014)

Seriously. I thought I would just get a bunch of "suck it up, pussy" or "lol quit" responses, but you guys are rad. 

@JoshuaSeaEater, so you're suggesting I take the Misha Mansoor route - write music and release demos in order to attract fitting bandmates? In that case do you suggest I abandon the plan to record the album (I'm writing right now) with these guys? I do see merit in getting their skills down on record but not sure if it's worth the frustration / time.

@TedEh, the issue with having 2, 3, or 200 bands is that despite all my bitching, I do enjoy being entirely devoted to one vision and one band, I just want the other people to feel the same and also devote themselves.

To everyone: there's a local drummer that is in an up-and-coming band who seem to be gaining a solid amount of attention locally: I want him in my band. He's super nice, a really good drummer, knows how to engineer / produce, and seems to be the "leader" of that band. Is it unrealistic to think that I would be able to get him to join, when by the time I have demos / maybe an album out, his band will probably be even bigger? 

I think every local band has a "leader", the one who puts the most time in on the band and devotes every second to thinking about it. My theory is that the bands that get "big" and are incredible (not saying thats my goal) are the ones who are comprised or 2+, or even entirely, of these "leaders". Think Periphery.


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## TedEH (Aug 14, 2014)

ScurrilousNerd said:


> despite all my bitching, I do enjoy being entirely devoted to one vision and one band, I just want the other people to feel the same and also devote themselves.





> I think every local band has a "leader", the one who puts the most time in on the band and devotes every second to thinking about it. My theory is that the bands that get "big" and are incredible (not saying thats my goal) are the ones who are comprised or 2+, or even entirely, of these "leaders". Think Periphery.



Don't take this the wrong way, but I take these comments as an indication that you're a bit naive. You're probably never going to get a full band in the room that's THAT committed to following your vision, even if you demonstrate that you're particularly brilliant. People have lives. People join bands because they want to express themselves, not so they can express *your* self.

I agree that the majority of bands have a creative leader, and someone who does most of the organizing, logistical, monetary, etc- it's not always just one person. But to say that this person (or people) is always so devoted, obsessive, thinking only of that, is not a realistic image to apply to others. You're young enough to not have to worry about a career, paying rent, sustaining non-musical relationships, etc. Even people who say "music is their life" have a life outside of music that usually takes precedence/priority.

I used to get really frustrated that I couldn't express enough of what was going on in my head musically with the band I was in until I realized it didn't all have to happen at the same time and place. I now have two heavy bands, one to satisfy my urge to be the rockstar guitarist kind of guy, one to play bass that's more "serious" as you've described it, I occasionally do covers with a band made up of family members, and I do my own mellow acoustic stuff "side project style" at home, at the same time as learning to record and mix things on my own. I'm not that great, or well known, even locally, but that's not the point. This isn't a less is more situation. More is more. Unless you're doing the one-man-band-at-home thing, music is a social thing, like it or not. If you can't do what you want with the current people you surround yourself with, then find some new people who bring what you want to the table and add them to the mix instead of cutting people out.


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## ScurrilousNerd (Aug 14, 2014)

TedEH said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but I take these comments as an indication that you're a bit naive. You're probably never going to get a full band in the room that's THAT committed to following your vision, even if you demonstrate that you're particularly brilliant. People have lives. People join bands because they want to express themselves, not so they can express *your* self.
> 
> I agree that the majority of bands have a creative leader, and someone who does most of the organizing, logistical, monetary, etc- it's not always just one person. But to say that this person (or people) is always so devoted, obsessive, thinking only of that, is not a realistic image to apply to others. You're young enough to not have to worry about a career, paying rent, sustaining non-musical relationships, etc. Even people who say "music is their life" have a life outside of music that usually takes precedence/priority.
> 
> I used to get really frustrated that I couldn't express enough of what was going on in my head musically with the band I was in until I realized it didn't all have to happen at the same time and place. I now have two heavy bands, one to satisfy my urge to be the rockstar guitarist kind of guy, one to play bass that's more "serious" as you've described it, I occasionally do covers with a band made up of family members, and I do my own mellow acoustic stuff "side project style" at home, at the same time as learning to record and mix things on my own. I'm not that great, or well known, even locally, but that's not the point. This isn't a less is more situation. More is more. Unless you're doing the one-man-band-at-home thing, music is a social thing, like it or not. If you can't do what you want with the current people you surround yourself with, then find some new people who bring what you want to the table and add them to the mix instead of cutting people out.



Huh. That "find new people ... instead of cutting people out" just changed my perspective on things. Maybe that's what my bassist is doing? Starting bands where he can play guitar, and just have a different vibe.

And to your point, I am incredibly naive. I know that. Hopefully I can change this, and I think you guys are helping do that with your responses. As far as the "my vision and only vision" type thing is concerned, thats not really what I meant, I would love to have people contribute and write with me and whatnot, that's why I was pointing towards the "leaders", whom already do that in their own band. Its great to get different perspectives from my band as is, but they just don't do it often or really want to. Just thinking out loud here.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 14, 2014)

I was in the exact same position my senior year of high school. Band with friends, we had a good time, but myself and the drummer at the time were the only one's serious. Bass player's parents funded his contributions to keep him in the band, vocalists would have rather chased tail and got drunk than practice (most of the time), but always, always nailed it live; drummer who never, EVER practiced outside of once or twice-a-week band rehearsals.....we kept that going with bandaids and empty promises till I was 20/21 and we actually were getting some recognition, as its amazing what a little talent can do when you play dick-simple metalcore even without any practice, but in the long run myself and our other guitarist (who was added much later) progressed well beyond the rest and they had no plans for catching up...... band fell apart, I lost some friends, we missed a recording contract with Victory by about two shots of whiskey....our vocalist was too drunk to sing on pitch or remember any words at our showcase gig....

I really wish someone would have told me when I was 18/19 that nobody else was gonna be serious about it in the long run and if you want to keep your friends you should probably amicably split the band after graduation and go find some guys that are chasing the same goals with the same intent to progress. Which is what I'm suggesting to you! Good luck dude!


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## ScurrilousNerd (Aug 14, 2014)

GunpointMetal said:


> I was in the exact same position my senior year of high school. Band with friends, we had a good time, but myself and the drummer at the time were the only one's serious. Bass player's parents funded his contributions to keep him in the band, vocalists would have rather chased tail and got drunk than practice (most of the time), but always, always nailed it live; drummer who never, EVER practiced outside of once or twice-a-week band rehearsals.....we kept that going with bandaids and empty promises till I was 20/21 and we actually were getting some recognition, as its amazing what a little talent can do when you play dick-simple metalcore even without any practice, but in the long run myself and our other guitarist (who was added much later) progressed well beyond the rest and they had no plans for catching up...... band fell apart, I lost some friends, we missed a recording contract with Victory by about two shots of whiskey....our vocalist was too drunk to sing on pitch or remember any words at our showcase gig....
> 
> I really wish someone would have told me when I was 18/19 that nobody else was gonna be serious about it in the long run and if you want to keep your friends you should probably amicably split the band after graduation and go find some guys that are chasing the same goals with the same intent to progress. Which is what I'm suggesting to you! Good luck dude!



.... man, that's brutal. So you're saying keep bandaiding the band until I graduate, then get real serious?


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## Pablo (Aug 14, 2014)

ScurrilousNerd said:


> .... man, that's brutal. So you're saying keep bandaiding the band until I graduate, then get real serious?


Nope, he's suggesting you keep the friendships and break up the band now... Sounds like the smart choice to me as well. Honestly, I'm twice your age and wasted most of the years I could _responsibly_ dedicate to music, by being in the wrong band _for me_. 

If you have a very clear musical vision, I'd actuallly suggest that you get a home studio going and try to record an album's worth of material on your own. IMHO this is the only way to _really_ test your vision. If that works out for you, you can then decide whether you want to go look for bandmates willing to share that vision. Nothing says "this is what I want the band to be" like a completed project.

My only real piece of advice is more simple though: make yourself happy - odds are that if you are unhappy, your bandmates are as well.

Cheers

Eske


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## ScurrilousNerd (Aug 14, 2014)

Pablo said:


> Nope, he's suggesting you keep the friendships and break up the band now... Sounds like the smart choice to me as well. Honestly, I'm twice your age and wasted most of the years I could _responsibly_ dedicate to music, by being in the wrong band _for me_.
> 
> If you have a very clear musical vision, I'd actuallly suggest that you get a home studio going and try to record an album's worth of material on your own. IMHO this is the only way to _really_ test your vision. If that works out for you, you can then decide whether you want to go look for bandmates willing to share that vision. Nothing says "this is what I want the band to be" like a completed project.
> 
> ...



The thing is - I'm not really claiming I have a one singular vision, just that I'm the main songwriter. I'm not a drummer, and my drummer writes more interesting parts than I could, same with the bassist. What do


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## mongey (Aug 14, 2014)

there is no one answer to making a band work. its way more complicated than a marriage . as an old dude whos been in a few I will say all the things your feeling everyone has felt , but you should be talking about it with your band mates . managing relationships is actually as improtant as the music you make. more sometimes . sit down and have a beer together and talk through it.talk being the point, ulimatiums never work . either people will agree or they won't and the band breaks up. there is no point dragging it out. we all do this cause we love it . its suppsoed to be a fun experience 

on the other drummer I would say be careful how you approach it. a scene is best the theres a tight communtiy of bands working together . if you go in and try to poach players and break bands up then you'll burn some bridges 

also on your current drummer stuggling to a click, its common. I've played with some really good drummers who had solid time who struggle with it on complicated parts .its allot more demanding than playing guitar to a click


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## Drew (Aug 15, 2014)

ScurrilousNerd said:


> The thing is - I'm not really claiming I have a one singular vision, just that I'm the main songwriter. I'm not a drummer, and my drummer writes more interesting parts than I could, same with the bassist. What do



You're 17. This is your first band. Pretend we're having this conversation about your first girlfriend, and the conclusion gets a lot clearer. 

Have fun with the band now and learn from playing with these guys, and you'll be a better musician for it. But, there's a whole world full of bassists, drummers, and singers. If these guys aren't serious, then this spring when you graduate, go off to college, find some new musicians to play with, and start a new band.


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## HurrDurr (Aug 15, 2014)

ScurrilousNerd said:


> The thing is - I'm not really claiming I have a one singular vision, just that I'm the main songwriter. I'm not a drummer, and my drummer writes more interesting parts than I could, same with the bassist. What do



Don't worry about writing super intricate drum tracks. Write what you like, then program/record the kind of drums/bass you like to the best of your abilities and roll with it. It'll make recording your ideas and channeling the mood so much easier for you if you remove all constructs and structures that you limit yourself to. Just play, man. Enjoy it for what it is.


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## zombieritual (Aug 15, 2014)

ScurrilousNerd said:


> The thing is - I'm not really claiming I have a one singular vision, just that I'm the main songwriter. I'm not a drummer, and my drummer writes more interesting parts than I could, same with the bassist. What do


 


HurrDurr said:


> Don't worry about writing super intricate drum tracks. Write what you like, then program/record the kind of drums/bass you like to the best of your abilities and roll with it. It'll make recording your ideas and channeling the mood so much easier for you if you remove all constructs and structures that you limit yourself to. Just play, man. Enjoy it for what it is.



^what this guy said! also, look on youtube for any kind of lessons on metal drumming, whether it be pro dudes in well known bands or just local dudes who give lessons. it really helps learning how to construct beats and fills and accents and stuff, believe me.


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## ScurrilousNerd (Aug 15, 2014)

zombieritual said:


> ^what this guy said! also, look on youtube for any kind of lessons on metal drumming, whether it be pro dudes in well known bands or just local dudes who give lessons. it really helps learning how to construct beats and fills and accents and stuff, believe me.



Awesome, I'll try it out. Now to figure out how to get / use superior drummer...


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## Nour Ayasso (Aug 17, 2014)

ScurrilousNerd said:


> The thing is - I'm not really claiming I have a one singular vision, just that I'm the main songwriter. I'm not a drummer, and my drummer writes more interesting parts than I could, same with the bassist. What do





ScurrilousNerd said:


> Awesome, I'll try it out. Now to figure out how to get / use superior drummer...



NOOOOO! ... hire me for sessions I'll record live drums/program them for ya!


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## HurrDurr (Aug 18, 2014)

ScurrilousNerd said:


> Awesome, I'll try it out. Now to figure out how to get / use superior drummer...



Superior is incredibly easy to use, although now-a-days from a strictly song-writing point of view, I'd recommend EZDrummer 2. It's even easier than Superior, and they've crammed a lot of tools into it for guys like you looking to lay down awesome drum tracks but aren't necessarily killer drummers themselves. Look it up, and then look up tutorials so you can quickly get the hang of it.


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## Quitty (Aug 18, 2014)

It seems like you've been given some really solid advice here, and it also seems that you're receptive of it - and that's great.
My only problem is that everyone's a mess but you. Don't get me wrong, there's a very good chance that you are a better 'bandmate' than they all are, but i'd like to see you acknowledge where you went wrong, if only to learn from it.

Are you bossing your bass player, trying to get him to play what you imagine you would?
Are you making your bandmates feel like practice is work, rather than try and get them excited about your music?
Are you delving too deep into your band-member's pockets and lives, judging their decisions? You'd think you're being discrete about it, but i'd wager it shows.

Bands are subject to everyone's people skills. Bad communication, a no-show singer, an uninvolved drummer and a bummed out bassist will crash any band, no matter how good your music is.

I wouldn't go superior, though. A one-man project is very, very different from a band - both in terms of how it sounds and how much you'll learn from it.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 18, 2014)

Quitty said:


> It seems like you've been given some really solid advice here, and it also seems that you're receptive of it - and that's great.
> My only problem is that everyone's a mess but you. Don't get me wrong, there's a very good chance that you are a better 'bandmate' than they all are, but i'd like to see you acknowledge where you went wrong, if only to learn from it.
> 
> Are you bossing your bass player, trying to get him to play what you imagine you would?
> ...



Good point, you gotta recognize what it was from your end that made things harder to accomplish so you don't carry that into the next project. Who nows, maybe a year or two down the road one of those guys you're playing with now with be full-on dedicated to making music and you'll work together again!


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## ScurrilousNerd (Aug 18, 2014)

Quitty said:


> Don't get me wrong, there's a very good chance that you are a better 'bandmate' than they all are, but i'd like to see you acknowledge where you went wrong, if only to learn from it.
> 
> Are you bossing your bass player, trying to get him to play what you imagine you would?
> Are you making your bandmates feel like practice is work, rather than try and get them excited about your music?
> Are you delving too deep into your band-member's pockets and lives, judging their decisions? You'd think you're being discrete about it, but i'd wager it shows.



1) The bass player writes every single bass part by himself, I usually provide 0 input on that, which I am fine with. The only time I step in is when I see him already writing a part that directly follows the guitar, and then I just show him the specific notes / frets if he hadn't already got them (he learns all by ear)

2) This is what I am most guilty of. I am the only one to initiate and organize practice, but its always been this way ("hey guys what time do you want to practice this week?" etc), so I've always chalked that up to their disinterest and/or lack of commitment to the band. I honestly don't know how to get someone else excited about music if they aren't already. The bassist is usually excited to practice and work on new songs, but again, with his new side project, that seems to be getting less and less.

3) Not 100% sure what you mean here, but I generally stay out of peoples' finances. If money is needed for something, the bassist and I usually make the decision and then tell the rest of the guys. I am sometimes annoying about that money, but only after it becomes a debt where they have to pay me back b/c they didn't have the money in time


This is actually really helpful, do you have any other "questions" I could use to help acknowledge my faults?


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 18, 2014)

If your bandmates feel like practice is work, or can't figure out when they want to practice, they don't care too much, simple as that. If they were interested in the project, they would be just as curious as to when the next jam would be, too. 

Money is always a fun issue. The current group I play with is the first time where everyone (all three of us, haha) puts in the same amount of money at the same time on everything. Every other incarnation of a band I've been in, there is always at least one person that thinks showing up with an instrument excludes them from having to pay for shirts/stickers/gas etc......


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## JoshuaKaroshi (Aug 18, 2014)

ScurrilousNerd said:


> @JoshuaSeaEater, so you're suggesting I take the Misha Mansoor route - write music and release demos in order to attract fitting bandmates? In that case do you suggest I abandon the plan to record the album (I'm writing right now) with these guys? I do see merit in getting their skills down on record but not sure if it's worth the frustration / time.



Sorry for the late response. This is exactly what I am saying. I did the same thing myself and feel worlds better about my music life. Of course you will always be able to pull some sort of positive out of working with them, but obviously that is not enough to make you happy or you wouldn't have posted  Do your own thing. If it doesn't feel right, it's not right. So many people deny themselves the happiness that they deserve in their various endeavors because they feel like they have to "deal with it," "suck it up," etc. instead of doing what feels right. Dont be that person.


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## ScurrilousNerd (Aug 18, 2014)

JoshuaSeaEater said:


> Sorry for the late response. This is exactly what I am saying. I did the same thing myself and feel worlds better about my music life. Of course you will always be able to pull some sort of positive out of working with them, but obviously that is not enough to make you happy or you wouldn't have posted  Do your own thing. If it doesn't feel right, it's not right. So many people deny themselves the happiness that they deserve in their various endeavors because they feel like they have to "deal with it," "suck it up," etc. instead of doing what feels right. Dont be that person.



Thanks for the advice duder! I'm going off to university next year so instead of trying to balance a band and education, I'll just go solo and work on writing good music


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## Quitty (Aug 18, 2014)

What would you do if your bassist changed your parts significantly? If your drummer said he simply can't see that C-part like you do and wants it done differently?

With 'delving into people's pocket', i meant your comment about your bassist paying for drugs rather than gear.
When a band member prioritizes something over your music, you can't really blame him. You can try and get him excited about the music enough for him to change on his own or you can decide that you don't want to work with someone who isn't committed enough, but you can't blame him.

In all likelihood, no one is ever going to care about your music as much as you do.
You either succeed in making the music a joint venture (not necessarily easy), or you carry the extra load - which obviously, isn't working with these guys.

My bassist is facing a similar situation to yours nowadays, and i'm one of the culprits.
He's a bossy SOB and we all hate him. We also know he's talented as fvck and that he works twice as hard as the rest of us, but i guess none of us feels that involved. Trying to take any load off of him seems like doing his work for him, or like we'll be 'racing' him for 'leadership'.
The point is we all know he didn't do anything wrong, but that doesn't change anything. You can't blame people for prioritizing as they see fit.

I hope you get stuff sorted out, you seem like you might be a joy to work with - but inevitably, some people need to relax, let loose, be patient and wait for someone else to pick up the reins, and i don't think that would happen in your current group.
If i was to really go 'out there' for a tutoring experience, i'd suggest you start a project where everyone moves everyone's cheese. No one writes any one part - you all discuss everything constantly. There's a learning curve to really writing music together, but that's what musician communication is about - and then you can know for sure that everyone is as involved in the music as you are.


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## Ultraussie (Sep 9, 2014)

Dont have much input on ur situation 
but I listened to ur track Midichlorians (or how u spell it) and I like to say although the production was pretty bad, I througholy enjoyed the bass playing in that song, it was really nice and chunky and I could pretty much always tell it from the guitars and it made the song allot better 
So yeah appreciate your bass player his pretty creative

Make sure the rest of ur band knows that they need to put the effort in


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## will_shred (Sep 11, 2014)

Sounds a lot like my high school grunge band. You know what I did? I joined another band. 

I still keep up with those guys because they're good friends of mine, but I basically told them to let me know when they're going to get serious because in the mean time i'm finding something better to do. The last time I saw them they were still talking about finishing that EP, all I could think to myself was _hah rightttt_


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