# How do I learn to "properly" navigate the fretboard using intervals?



## octatoan (Dec 15, 2014)

Okay, so this barrage of threads needs to stop 

I've been looking through some of Mr. Big Noodles' (and some other people's, forgive me) posts (the big theory ones) - the ones about "learning the fretboard" in general, where they recommend an intervallic approach to traversing the fretboard instead of a memorization-based one (which pleases my mind a great deal).



 My first question is, how do I "learn intervals properly"? For example, I know that the interval between the tonic and the sixth is a major sixth - but how do I teach myself the intervals between, say, a flat third and the corresponding seventh? How do I get these down cold?
 

 And once I have, how would one proceed to being able to find notes a specific interval away from the given note on the fretboard? I would like to be able to do something like "okay, so this is the third of <insert key>, so the note a thirteenth away from the tonic can be found here, here and here."
 

 Third, is the "learn the major scale, then alter notes as appropriate, profit" approach correct (in the context of intervallically mapping the fretboard)? Isn't this approach also memorization-based? (I would guess it is, for the locations of the natural notes are very dependent on the tuning one is in, I think.)
 

 Lastly, (whew!), suppose I want to figure out how a chord I'm playing is voiced. (i.e. something like R b3 5 b3 b7 from low to high, or whatever). So I see my root on the 5th string, a note a b3 above the root on the 4th string, a note a major second (I may be wrong) above the b3on the third string - which is then the 5 of my chord, and so on. How do I learn to do this sort of thing without adding and subtracting semitones manually?
 
Re-edit: Please be merciless in correcting any terminological errors. I hope I got the "tonic"s right!


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## ghost_of_karelia (Dec 15, 2014)

Let's get the whole idea of intervals down properly first. An interval is a space between two notes - there are no exceptions to this, no matter how djent you are. If you fret one note, and then fret another, there is an interval there. 

Same fret: unison
1 fret: minor second
2 frets: major second
3 frets: minor third
4 frets: major third
5 frets: perfect fourth
6 frets: tritone
7 frets: perfect fifth
8 frets: minor sixth
9 frets: major sixth
10 frets: minor seventh
11 frets: major seventh
12 frets: octave

A fret on the guitar is equivalent to a semitone, or half step, which is the distance between two adjacent keys of any colour on a keyboard. 

Someone will fill this in, I've got the flu and screens hurt my head. x)


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## Winspear (Dec 15, 2014)

EDIT: Ninjad haha!

I don't know if there's a 'correct' or better way to do this, but just learn the intervals in semitones.
Interval (music) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then you can know a major 7th from a minor 3rd is 3+11 = 14 , -12 = 2. Your major 2nd or 9th.
This of course works very nicely on a guitar because of fret numbers!

Then it's just a case of learning to relate them across strings correctly. E.g Tablature 8x10 = Octave because strings are tuned in 4ths (5 semitones) - 5+5+2 = 12 = Octave. 8x8 = 5+5 = 10 = minor 7th etc. Perfect fourths tuning of course makes this more consistant, bit of a curveball over the G string.

A more advanced example - What's the minor seventh of the fifth of the minor third? 3+7+10 = 20 - 12 = 8. It's the minor sixth of the tonic.


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## octatoan (Dec 15, 2014)

EtherealEntity said:


> EDIT: Ninjad haha!
> 
> I don't know if there's a 'correct' or better way to do this, but just learn the intervals in semitones.
> Interval (music) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...



Yes, that is exactly what I'd like to learn to do, but I'd prefer to avoid counting semitones in my head (because I'm afraid I'll have to rely on them forever). I'd like to know if there is any way to learn to do what you show in your examples (esp. the last one!) without adding and subtracting numbers in my head, but by relying on intuition instead. 

I'm cool with doing it at first, but is that how even very advanced musicians work with intervals? Or does this slowly turn into muscle memory (not exactly _muscle_ memory, but you get the drift)?

The focus of my question is ultimately learning to recognise intervals across strings - one at a time probably, but I can live with that, and learning to work with intervals in my head is probably the first step. Eventually, I'd like to take one of the weird chords I dream up, and, having ID'd the root, say, "so this is the root, this is a #4, this is <whatever> above the #4 so it's a major seventh above the root - so I have R #4 7".



jarvncaredoc said:


> Let's get the whole idea of intervals down properly first. An interval is a space between two notes - there are no exceptions to this, no matter how djent you are. If you fret one note, and then fret another, there is an interval there.
> 
> . . .
> 
> ...



I already knew (all of) this (I hope that didn't come across wrong), but thanks for the refresher!
Edit: "no matter how djent you are" 

Re-edit: 200th post! :bows:


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## Hollowway (Dec 16, 2014)

EtherealEntity said:


> EDIT: Ninjad haha!
> 
> I don't know if there's a 'correct' or better way to do this, but just learn the intervals in semitones.
> Interval (music) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...



Can you give me an example of why I'd want to know a major seventh from a minor 3rd? I can't figure out why I'd do that, as opposed to just a major seventh from the note I'm playing.


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## AugmentedFourth (Dec 16, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> Can you give me an example of why I'd want to know a major seventh from a minor 3rd? I can't figure out why I'd do that, as opposed to just a major seventh from the note I'm playing.



Maybe the note before that was a minor third lower and you are figuring out your interval from there? Maybe I'm not understanding the question.

That's how you make chords. Root... third. Then a third from there. Third + third = fifth. Add another? Seventh. Now it's a seventh chord.


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## Hollowway (Dec 16, 2014)

Yeah, I just mean that if I want to make an interval, I usually use the note I'm starting at to create it. So if I'm I playing in A, for instance, and I am fretting a C, and then I want to go up a major 7th from there, then I'd do it. I can't imagine why I'd say, "well, the C is a minor third up from the A, so a 7th up from here would be how far up from A?" It sounds needlessly complicated, so I figure I must be missing something.


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## AugmentedFourth (Dec 16, 2014)

Ah, I see what you're saying. Yes, if all you're doing is navigating the fretboard, adding intervals is much too complicated to do on-the-fly.


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## octatoan (Dec 16, 2014)

^ So how should I learn to do it (i.e. what Hollowway is speaking of)?



Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I just mean that if I want to make an interval, I usually use the note I'm starting at to create it. So if I'm I playing in A, for instance, and I am fretting a C, and then I want to go up a major 7th from there, then I'd do it. I can't imagine why I'd say, "well, the C is a minor third up from the A, so a 7th up from here would be how far up from A?" It sounds needlessly complicated, so I figure I must be missing something.



Again, take the chord example. Suppose I want to figure out how a chord I'm playing is voiced. (i.e. something like R b3 5 b3 b7). So I see my root on the 5th string, a note a b3 above the root on the 4th string, and a note a major second (I may be wrong) above _that _on the third string, which is then the 5 of my chord, and so on. To be able to do this, I need to learn how to add/subtract intervals - and I want to do that without having to count semitones in my head forever.


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## mcsalty (Dec 16, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> So if I'm I playing in A, for instance, and I am fretting a C, and then I want to go up a major 7th from there, then I'd do it.



I think that's what the OP is asking, wanting to know _how_ to go up that major 7th. Less about the math and more about knowing the notes. That is, of course, assuming that I'M not misreading or misinterpreting anything 

Edit for semi- since I was apparently writing that post for over 10 minutes


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## Solodini (Dec 16, 2014)

Hollowway said:


> Can you give me an example of why I'd want to know a major seventh from a minor 3rd? I can't figure out why I'd do that, as opposed to just a major seventh from the note I'm playing.


 
I can see why he might have worked out a chord (chord III maj7) and then want to work out which degree of the scale the 7th of the chord is. Admittedly, I'd work out the chord and then do the interval from the tonic to the note in question but it's all a learning process, to see the links.



Awesoham said:


> ^ So how should I learn to do it (i.e. what Hollowway is speaking of)?
> 
> 
> 
> Again, take the chord example. Suppose I want to figure out how a chord I'm playing is voiced. (i.e. something like R b3 5 b3 b7). So I see my root on the 5th string, a note a b3 above the root on the 4th string, and a note a *MAJOR 3RD* above _that _on the third string, which is then the 5 of my chord, and so on. To be able to do this, I need to learn how to add/subtract intervals - and I want to do that without having to count semitones in my head forever.


 
A major chord is a major 3rd with a minor 3rd on top of it to take you up to the 5th. A minor chord is a minor 3rd with a major 3rd on top to take you up to the 5th. We use tertian harmony which means building in 3rds. 1 3 5 7 9 11 13. Each is a 3rd above the last.

Learn to invert intervals. Finding octaves of notes is a handy starting point. Find each instance of the notes of your tuning. Standard tuning has an A, B, D E, G. There's only 2 natural notes missing there. E is only a semitone from F, B is only a semitone from C. Easy enough to find those missing notes. The missing # and b notes are also a semitone from any other note. Find octaves of them. 

If a major 6th is 9 semitones up, a minor 3rd (the inversion of that interval) is only 3 semitones down. It's easier to see the octave and go down 3 semitones from there.

Try moving melodies between different sets of strings, thinking of what the intervals between the notes of the melody are or what function each note has in the key, not just blasting around by ear and trial and error. Think of the notes and intervals as you play. Play slowly enough that you can say these out loud as you go. 

Working like this, trying to write something, realising a note is out of reach and mechanically difficult, moving the melody or chord to other strings to make it manageable, helps you to see how things mirror and relate to each other. In time, if you're anything like me, it becomes quicker, bit by bit. 

Try using different tunings, to expand the process.


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## fantom (Dec 16, 2014)

Awesoham said:


> Again, take the chord example. Suppose I want to figure out how a chord I'm playing is voiced. (i.e. something like R b3 5 b3 b7). So I see my root on the 5th string, a note a b3 above the root on the 4th string, and a note a major second (I may be wrong) above _that _on the third string, which is then the 5 of my chord, and so on. To be able to do this, I need to learn how to add/subtract intervals - and I want to do that without having to count semitones in my head forever.



You are making it harder on yourself. Don't think "major 2nd of minor 3rd" and have to do math. The only time you'll ever hear people talking like this is in post-modal jazz (and it is almost always something like V of V (five of five) instead of major 2nd). There are only 7 notes to learn from a root note. From there, you can sharp/flatten the note. Just remember things relative to the root of the chord.

EDIT: Unless you are sight reading. Knowing "relative" pitches is really useful when sight reading, assuming you have a solid understanding and comfort with the key signature. But that is mechanical. Theory isn't as mechanical.

Let's break it down for you. Unplanned rules! Obviously I'm trying to so simplify things to make it more accessible... forgive the late night attempt at humor.

1) Forget key signatures for a while. Focus on a single root note and form chords from it. Let's be super lazy and pick A as the root. Because Am is all naturals, like organic food. So it must be better.

2) Forget wide spreads and learning all 4+ octaves at the same time. Some instruments can only span an octave and do fine. You want to sing, not play random noise hardcore.

3) Forget most of your strings. I know, I know, you stopped playing the original 6 years ago and rely on the drop-tuned 7th, 8th, and 9th strings. Seriously, let's focus on 3, the EAD strings. With the exception of the nasty G->B string interval, everything is modular (assuming you aren't playing in dropped tuning).

4) Forget that you have more than 5 frets. Because who needs the meedley meedley notes anyways?

5) Don't learn "everything" together. Pick the notes in a mode and go from there. As you "get it", add notes for new modes.

Ok, simplified. Now let's break it down to exercises.

Exercise 1: Ascending "My index finger is stuck at the 5th fret" intervals in Am (Aeolian)

```
The 2nd, or 9th (or "major" 2nd, which sounds silly)
D-----
A-----
E-5-7-

The minor 3rd
D-----
A-----
E-5-8-

The 4th
D-----
A---5-
E-5---

The 5th ("power chord" / "5th chord")
D-----
A---7-
E-5---

The minor 6th (or 13th)
D-----
A---8-
E-5---

The 7th (it isn't the "minor 7th", if anything, call it the dominant 7)
D----5-
A-----
E-5---

The octave
D---7-
A-----
E-5---
```

Learn this first. You can play this almost anywhere (avoid the pesky G->B strings) and the intervals are the same. That's the simple "I'm stuck in a minor key and anchored." Next, graduate to a new "anchor" point (or try descending intervals). 

Exercise 2. "Anchoring the middle (or ring) finger on the 5th fret" AKA "2 exercises for the price of 1"


```
The 2nd, or 9th (or "major" 2nd, which sounds silly)
D-----
A-----
E-5-7- (pinky for the 7)

The minor 3rd
D-----
A---3-
E-5---

The 4th
D-----
A---5-
E-5---

The 5th ("power chord" / "5th chord")
D-----
A---7-
E-5---

The minor 6th (or 13th)
D---3-
A-----
E-5---

The 7th (it isn't the "minor 7th", if anything, call it the dominant 7)
D----5-
A-----
E-5---

The octave
D---7-
A-----
E-5---
```

The astute observer might notice that only 2 notes moved! That's all. Everything else is just different fingers playing the same frets! Surely you can add 2 more notes to your interval collection!?

Exercise: What about anchoring my pinky?


```
The 2nd, or 9th (or "major" 2nd, which sounds silly)
D-----
A---2-
E-5---

The minor 3rd
D-----
A---3-
E-5---

The 4th
D-----
A---5-
E-5---

The 5th ("power chord" / "5th chord")
D---2-
A-----
E-5---

The minor 6th (or 13th)
D---3-
A-----
E-5---

The 7th (it isn't the "minor 7th", if anything, call it the dominant 7)
D----5-
A-----
E-5---

The octave
G---2-  (Oops I'm cheating, another string?)
D-----
A-----
E-5---
```

What changed now? Really, just 3 notes this time!?

Given this. You can now practice 3 positions of the minor scale. Get this down before you move on.

As you move on, start applying the interval **NAMES**. IE, you know the minor 3rd. If you see "major 3rd", know to raise the minor 3rd one fret! Likewise, "major 7th", raise the 7th 1 fret. There's only 2 notes that are going to "regularly" move this way (3rd, 7th). The 2/6 will be called 9 and 13. The 4th and 5th usually get "flatted" / "diminished" or "augmented". I'd worry about that later.

As you learn the shapes, slowly add things in.
- Another string.
- Descending notes.
- The same patterns, but starting on a different string.
- The same patterns, but starting on a different fret.
- A new position starting on the same notes (like 12th fret of the A string).
- 4 notes per string (meaning, shift positions each string).
- Etc.

But that's far far away. Start with the basics and grow. This will help out with almost every minor chord (that's 3 of the chords in the key). The major chord can follow after. Then you have 90% of the intervals that modern music cares about.


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## octatoan (Dec 16, 2014)

Wow, thanks. That is quite a lot to digest.



fantom said:


> Forget most of your strings. I know, I know, you stopped playing the original 6 years ago and rely on the drop-tuned 7th, 8th, and 9th strings.


Look at my sig. I play a standard-tuned acoustic 6-string. What could be more metal than that? 



Solodini said:


> A major chord is a major 3rd with a minor 3rd on top of it to take you up to the 5th. A minor chord is a minor 3rd with a major 3rd on top to take you up to the 5th. We use tertian harmony which means building in 3rds. 1 3 5 7 9 11 13. Each is a 3rd above the last.
> 
> Learn to invert intervals. Finding octaves of notes is a handy starting point. Find each instance of the notes of your tuning. Standard tuning has an A, B, D E, G. There's only 2 natural notes missing there. E is only a semitone from F, B is only a semitone from C. Easy enough to find those missing notes. The missing # and b notes are also a semitone from any other note. Find octaves of them.
> 
> ...



I hope it works for me!

I have two questions for you: 


The voicing I wrote was R b3 5 b3 b7, which (to me, might be wrong) looks like a minor chord, so shouldn't your correction be _*MAJOR 3RD*_ instead (since the 5th is a major 3rd above the b3, from what you wrote here)?
How would _you_ proceed to identify the notes in a chord given a fingering pattern? Take everyone's favourite, 032010 (a C/E, I hope). How would your thought process go when asked to name the notes of the chord?
 Edit: About the 1 3 5 7 11 etc. thing: I see that since the 1-5 interval is a fifth, flattening the 1-3 interval to make it 1-b3 means that the b3-5 interval will automatically be . . . a half step _more _ than the usual 3-5 distance, which I know is a m3, so the b3-5 distance is a major third. Simple, yes, but I love it when stuff works out logically.


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## Solodini (Dec 16, 2014)

Awesoham said:


> Wow, thanks. That is quite a lot to digest.
> 
> 
> Look at my sig. I play a standard-tuned acoustic 6-string. What could be more metal than that?
> ...




Good catch. I'm so used to people using major chords for examples that I went on autopilot. Major 3rd indeed.


Awesoham said:


> How would _you_ proceed to identify the notes in a chord given a fingering pattern? Take everyone's favourite, 032010 (a C/E, I hope). How would your thought process go when asked to name the notes of the chord?
> Identify in terms of naming the notes or working out what to name the intervals? I'd identify the root by what sounds like the tonal centre of it; then identify what would be the 3rd, determine whether it's major or minor; the 5th is the 5th, perhaps augmented or diminished. Octaves of each of those.
> 
> Naming the notes is alphabetical. If C is 1 (the root), D is 2, E is 3. The 3rd needs to be called E something. It won't be called D## or Fb, as those would be a double augmented 2nd and a diminished 4th, respectively. 123 ABC, 123 DEF, 123 FGA, 12345 DEFGA. Use your fingers to count it then just work out whether it's flat, natural or sharp to fulfil the necessary interval.
> ...


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## Solodini (Dec 16, 2014)

fantom said:


> The 2nd, or 9th (or "major" 2nd, which sounds silly)
> 
> The 7th (it isn't the "minor 7th", if anything, call it the dominant 7)
> [/CODE]


 
I disagree. Minor means small; Major means big. A small 2nd or a small 7th, relative to the major equivalent, is minor. That's what minor means.

In a chord I agree with dominant 7th if it relates to a major chord, as it relates to the function of that kind of chord in major harmony which we base so much upon. In a minor chord with a minor 7th, that chord is called a minor 7 chord, not minor dom7 chord.

The interval is a small 7th: a minor 7th.


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## octatoan (Dec 16, 2014)

Solodini said:


> I disagree. Minor means small; Major means big. A small 2nd or a small 7th, relative to the major equivalent, is minor. That's what minor means.
> 
> In a chord I agree with dominant 7th if it relates to a major chord, as it relates to the function of that kind of chord in major harmony which we base so much upon. In a minor chord with a minor 7th, that chord is called a minor 7 chord, not minor dom7 chord.
> 
> The interval is a small 7th: a minor 7th.



I thought so too - so the _interval_ is either m7 or M7, not dom7, amirite?

And as for identifying the notes of the chord: what you're saying is essentially based on ear-trained ability to hear intervals, I think. What I'm talking about can actually be distilled down to this: given two random notes on the fretboard, how do you, in the general case, find the interval between them?


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## Aion (Dec 16, 2014)

Since you are a guitarist, make sure to associate intervals with fret distance. Know that the minor third is three frets, the minor seven is 10, all of that. No matter what, some memorization will be involved in all theory/ear training.

When you have that down for an octave, you'll be able to think of intervals in one dimension (as in across the fret board), now you need to add a second (up/down the strings). To do this, figure out how you need to move up/down one and two strings to get to an interval, ignoring the B and high E strings. For example, a minor third is easier up three frets, or down a string and back two frets, if you go down two strings it is back seven frets. On the other hand, a major sixth is nine frets, down a string and three frets, or down two strings and back one fret. Play an interval on one string, between two adjacent strings, and then with a skipped string. Once you have this figured out for the top four strings, then you can add in the B string, which changes things slightly because G-B is a third instead of a fourth, and finally add the high E string, which is also a slight change because G-E is a sixth instead of a minor seventh.

The interval ear training exercise at musictheory.net is also a good way to get the sounds in your head while you work on getting them under your fingers.


At this point you can start moving out of the octave into ninths and like. I would suggest doing the same exercise as before, only this time do it between four strings instead of three. You can move on to doing six strings if you're heart so desires, but at this point you'll probably be pretty solid on your intervals and most of your energy should probably be focused elsewhere.


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## 7stg (Dec 16, 2014)

This could help 8 string guitar chords in standard tuning. all laid out with intervals over the fretboard. It takes a little more work initially to learn chords like this but you will master all intervals and their relations.


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## octatoan (Dec 16, 2014)

Aion said:


> Since you are a guitarist, make sure to associate intervals with fret distance. Know that the minor third is three frets, the minor seven is 10, all of that. No matter what, some memorization will be involved in all theory/ear training.
> 
> When you have that down for an octave, you'll be able to think of intervals in one dimension (as in across the fret board), now you need to add a second (up/down the strings). To do this, figure out how you need to move up/down one and two strings to get to an interval, ignoring the B and high E strings. For example, a minor third is easier up three frets, or down a string and back two frets, if you go down two strings it is back seven frets. On the other hand, a major sixth is nine frets, down a string and three frets, or down two strings and back one fret. Play an interval on one string, between two adjacent strings, and then with a skipped string. Once you have this figured out for the top four strings, then you can add in the B string, which changes things slightly because G-B is a third instead of a fourth, and finally add the high E string, which is also a slight change because G-E is a sixth instead of a minor seventh.
> 
> ...




Thanks. Your idea of combining the process of learning intervallic navigation with ear training seems pretty solid!



7stg said:


> This could help 8 string guitar chords in standard tuning. all laid out with intervals over the fretboard. It takes a little more work initially to learn chords like this but you will master all intervals and their relations.



This is how I eventually plan to learn chords (i.e. with intervals and stuff), so I can construct chords at will.

fantom and Solodini: Thanks for the ideas again. I've been practising and trying to say the intervals out loud, modifying them a bit ("okay, major now . . . root . . . major second . . . major third . . ." instead of Am only) and having fun in general. I even tried playing Romance Anonimo while saying the name of the interval from E to the current note out loud. (The first part is in Em, so.)


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## octatoan (Dec 16, 2014)

double post, ignore


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## FILTHnFEAR (Dec 17, 2014)

jarvncaredoc said:


> Let's get the whole idea of intervals down properly first. An interval is a space between two notes - there are no exceptions to this, no matter how djent you are. If you fret one note, and then fret another, there is an interval there.
> 
> Same fret: unison
> 1 fret: minor second
> ...



I wish I could understand what you guys are talking about, but this quoted post is about as far as I get before I'm like . 

I understand that if I'm on my D string, 2nd fret(E) a Major 3rd from there is the 6th fret(G#). Right? How do I apply this to learning the fretboard? When I hear you guys say "intervals are the way", what does that mean? How does it apply?

I feel stupid asking like this, but I really wanna understand.


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## fantom (Dec 17, 2014)

FILTHnFEAR said:


> I wish I could understand what you guys are talking about, but this quoted post is about as far as I get before I'm like .
> 
> I understand that if I'm on my D string, 2nd fret(E) a Major 3rd from there is the 6th fret(G#). Right? How do I apply this to learning the fretboard? When I hear you guys say "intervals are the way", what does that mean? How does it apply?
> 
> I feel stupid asking like this, but I really wanna understand.



Given a major 3rd is 4 frets higher and the E (2nd fret of the D string), it means do 2+4 to get 6. The G# (major 3rd) is on the 6th fret.


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## fantom (Dec 17, 2014)

Solodini said:


> I disagree. Minor means small; Major means big. A small 2nd or a small 7th, relative to the major equivalent, is minor. That's what minor means.
> 
> In a chord I agree with dominant 7th if it relates to a major chord, as it relates to the function of that kind of chord in major harmony which we base so much upon. In a minor chord with a minor 7th, that chord is called a minor 7 chord, not minor dom7 chord.
> 
> The interval is a small 7th: a minor 7th.



I agree with you in a perfect theoretical world, but people don't communicate this way. Practically, musicians in real life...

Case 1) Am7. No one says "A minor minor 7". It pretty much accepted that it is "A minor with a 7" contains the "minor" 7 due to the common case.

Case 2) The abnormal case is AmM7 (insert the funny floating augmented triangle). This one explicitly notated because it occurs far less frequently.

Case 3) A7 (Adom7). This is not "A major minor 7". It's called dominant 7 because the chord function is almost exclusively used as a dominant due to the tritone. So call it Adom7 or A7, not a "minor 7".

Case 4) AMaj7. Similarly argument to the first one. It is assumed that the "A Major with a 7" contains a major 7th. No one says "A Major major 7".

So while I understand the ideal case, practically, I disagree about the "100% major/minor naming annotations" because people simply don't speak that way.


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## octatoan (Dec 17, 2014)

FILTHnFEAR said:


> I wish I could understand what you guys are talking about, but this quoted post is about as far as I get before I'm like .
> 
> I understand that if I'm on my D string, 2nd fret(E) a Major 3rd from there is the 6th fret(G#). Right? How do I apply this to learning the fretboard? When I hear you guys say "intervals are the way", what does that mean? How does it apply?
> 
> I feel stupid asking like this, but I really wanna understand.



My  here: See, "learning the fretboard" essentially means being able to jump to any given note from where you are, right? There are two approaches to this:


"I'm on a the fifth fret of the B string, which is an E; I want to move to a G, and I've memorized the fact that 3rd fret on the top E is a G, I'll jump there!"
"I'm on the fifth fret of the B string, I want to move a minor third up - so I'm going to play third fret E string."
The advantage of the second approach is that it involves less memorization and allows you to do this in any tuning. All you need to know is the intervals between the strings.



fantom said:


> I agree with you in a perfect theoretical world, but people don't communicate this way. Practically, musicians in real life...
> 
> Case 1) Am7. No one says "A minor minor 7". It pretty much accepted that it is "A minor with a 7" contains the "minor" 7 due to the common case.
> 
> ...



I always used to think that m7, P5 etc. were _interval types_, while stuff like A7, Am7b5, Am7 were _chord types_ each with a specific set of notes relative to the root. So nobody says "A major major 7" instead of "Amaj7" because we've just said "Hey, a major 7 chord has the root, the third, the fifth and the seventh of the scale."

Oh, and your idea is working amazingly well!


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## Solodini (Dec 17, 2014)

fantom said:


> I agree with you in a perfect theoretical world, but people don't communicate this way. Practically, musicians in real life...
> 
> Case 1) Am7. No one says "A minor minor 7". It pretty much accepted that it is "A minor with a 7" contains the "minor" 7 due to the common case.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with those namings of chords, that's what I was arguing, but a minor 7th is a much more general interval which does not relate necessarily to a dom7 chord. You're the only person I've ever encountered who refers to a minor 7th as a dom7 outside of the context of a dom7 chord.


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## fantom (Dec 18, 2014)

Solodini said:


> I agree with those namings of chords, that's what I was arguing, but a minor 7th is a much more general interval which does not relate necessarily to a dom7 chord. You're the only person I've ever encountered who refers to a minor 7th as a dom7 outside of the context of a dom7 chord.



Oh ya, I totally agree. I wouldn't call the interval "dominant 7". I would just call it "7". In everyday lingo with other guitarists and keyboard players, it's understood that, in a minor key, 7 is "minor" and 2 is "major". People will say "Major 7" or "Flat 2/9" if they want to refer to the other one. When talking strictly about intervals, you still have to think of function in the key or chord. Otherwise, it's like asking someone whether or not "y" is a consonant or vowel. I would not spell "You" as "Y-consonant O-vowel U-vowel". I'd just say "YOU" and expect the other person to see that Y is a not a vowel. I was just trying to convey this... poorly...


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## Aion (Dec 18, 2014)

fantom said:


> Oh ya, I totally agree. I wouldn't call the interval "dominant 7". I would just call it "7". In everyday lingo with other guitarists and keyboard players, it's understood that, in a minor key, 7 is "minor" and 2 is "major". People will say "Major 7" or "Flat 2/9" if they want to refer to the other one. When talking strictly about intervals, you still have to think of function in the key or chord. Otherwise, it's like asking someone whether or not "y" is a consonant or vowel. I would not spell "You" as "Y-consonant O-vowel U-vowel". I'd just say "YOU" and expect the other person to see that Y is a not a vowel. I was just trying to convey this... poorly...



Generally when people talk about learning intervals they are talking about learning all of the intervals not-specific to a chord or key. Or at least, that's always been my experience. Usually learning intervals is a theoretical exercise for the purpose of building one's ear for application uses later.

You're totally right in terms of that's how it eventually gets used in application, but I believe what OP was talking about was understanding intervals as a whole for eventual understanding in specific cases. And in that case you would say Major or Minor 7.


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