# Tips for going "ampless"



## DLG (Aug 29, 2016)

Hi guys, 

I just sold my Ampeg SVT-VR and 6x10 because I just don't need it anymore, don't play out as much, etc. 

What are my best options for going ampless? 

I mostly play at home, but expect to have gigs every now and then. 

Would something like a SansAmp Bass Driver Deluxe do the job for me?

Just get that and a good DI box and I'm set?

Not looking to spend too, too much. 

Give me some thoughts on this.


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## dax21 (Aug 29, 2016)

Sansamps are also DIs, and pretty good ones too, so you wouldn't need a separate DI box. I would recommend checking out Tech 21's VT bass DI (or its deluxe model counterpart if you need multiple programmed presets) too, as it has a mid knob on it and the overdrive is a bit more musical, less crackly and less scooped than one on the bass driver. It's meant to emulate ampeg for what its worth, look it up on youtube.

A bit cheaper alternative would be MXR's M80 DI+. I have one and it's awesome, DI on it is quality stuff too. However its 2nd channel is a distortion, not an overdrive, so it sounds a lot harsher and can't be that easily compared to Sansamps in terms of tone.


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## DLG (Aug 29, 2016)

Thanks!

If I'm going in that direction and don't have budgetary restraints what's the best way to go?

The darkglass stuff?


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## dax21 (Aug 29, 2016)

If money is not an issue, then definitely Darkglass. EBS Microbass II is in the very similar price range, and EBS stuff is top tier, but Darkglass is honestly as good as dirty bass tones go imho.


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## DLG (Aug 29, 2016)

thanks dax!


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## cardinal (Aug 29, 2016)

I use an Apogee interface and bought Positve Grid's BIAS for my phone for $20 I think. I think the SVT sim sounds pretty cool.


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## A-Branger (Aug 29, 2016)

before I got my amp I used to plug into my interface and play using the Amplitube Ampeg stand alone.

was pretty cool, nothing like having a real amp, but stll pretty good tones out of it.


For playing live, you only need a good DI box. You can get your own if you wish, but every PA should have one. Assuming you are playing in places where a real PA is required. Not just couple of EONs for the vocals 

the only thing is you wont have your monitor on stage. You would have to rely on borrowing one from other bands, pray the venue has one or talk to the PA guy to see if he can put a wedge in front of you with the bass signal


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## illimmigrant (Aug 30, 2016)

DLG said:


> Thanks!
> 
> If I'm going in that direction and don't have budgetary restraints what's the best way to go?
> 
> The darkglass stuff?



No one has mentioned it, and I'm surprised, but I would want a good compressor as well. The Darkglass stuff is great, either a vintage or B7K depending on your style and a Cali 76 or Super Symmetry compressor.


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## bostjan (Aug 30, 2016)

Great topic. 

With bass, there are so many right ways to go ampless.

I've only tried a couple options myself, and I haven't spent enough time with any to make conclusive comments. I tried some sort of MXR preamp and I didn't particularly like it. To me, it had a kind of funky high end that I just couldn't seem to dial out without losing clarity, but maybe I just needed to play with it a bit more. I was a little more impressed by the Ampeg preamp/DI box I tried, but still, it didn't knock my socks off. I know there has to be something out there that will make me go "wow," but I have not yet come across it. Another issue may well be on the back end of what I've demo'd concurrently with this stuff.


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## LordCashew (Aug 30, 2016)

I have an MXR M-80 DI. I don't use it much. The preamp/DI portion of the pedal sounds quite good IMO but mine has been a bit noisy in venues with questionable wiring, even when other DIs were not. The distortion channel isn't bad either but you need to run it through a speaker cabinet for it to sound good. Yes, it sounds like crap going direct through the onboard XLR output.  I really don't understand why they would put two pretty good, but mutually exclusive, things in the same box.  It is kind of a Swiss Army knife though - good to have around in pinch because it can do a number of things. It actually proved most useful once when I wired it into a poorly setup PA to use its EQ as a high pass filter for the main speakers. I was bummed not to have my distortion box but everyone there benefited from its presence... 

You can't really go wrong with any of the Tech 21 stuff IMO. Simple and effective.  I personally use a POD XT Live on gigs and it sounds good enough for any environment I'll realistically be playing in.

Another thing to consider would be getting a decent powered full-range monitor of your own to bring to gigs if you ever need a little stage volume. I know a number of guys on TalkBass were using the 15" powered lightweight Carvin speaker for going ampless.


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## olejason (Aug 30, 2016)

Sansamp will be a solid bet for replicating your SVT tones. Darkglass is also a good choice but doesn't sound like a tube amp or SVT. I use a b7k and like it a lot. It's more versatile than a lot of people assume.

For playing at home I'd just use plugins. Amplitube, Ezmix, all kinds of good ones out there.


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## iron blast (Aug 31, 2016)

There are tons of excellent options for going ampless lately my personal favorite is the phil jones bass buddy pre/di but the eden wtdi and gallien kreuger pulse pre are both great options too


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## DLG (Aug 31, 2016)

olejason said:


> Sansamp will be a solid bet for replicating your SVT tones. Darkglass is also a good choice but doesn't sound like a tube amp or SVT. I use a b7k and like it a lot. It's more versatile than a lot of people assume.



how would you characterize the b7k's sound?

thanks everyone, great info.


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## Fraz666 (Aug 31, 2016)

DLG said:


> Not looking to spend too, too much.


I have the same goal, I'm fresh from a studio reamp where I used the _Tech21 SansAmp Bass Driver DI_ but I'm looking something cheaper: maybe the_ DR.J D53 Effects Sparrow drive & DI for bass?
_Dr.J is the 'boutique' line of JoJo chinese pedals and is about 80$_,_ I heard it only on youtube but it seems a good clone


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## dax21 (Aug 31, 2016)

Fraz if you want to go for under $100 maybe check out Hartke's VXL Bass attack, used ones can be had for like 60-70 euros here and I imagine it can't be more expensive in Italy. It's a bit uncharacteristic for Hartke sound because it doesn't sound typically thin like most Hartke amps, instead it has ....ton of harmonics and can get that nice tube-ish sound.

It really comes down to what one wants out of these things - "amp" coloring with rolled off highs or transparent tone, drive/OD or clean sound etc. 

As far as Darkglass stuff goes I haven't seen one in person let alone tried it but I've been closely following it online since it first emerged on talkbass and have heard countless samples of it in varying forms. All their pedals have these toggle switches with couple of positions that alter the character of the drive on it a lot so it's very tweakable. If I had to use words to describe it it would be precise, tight and it appears to cut through most mixes very well. It's been all the rage for the past two years or so and everyone in the metal world from Alex Webster to Nolly seem to be using it, so you know it's good stuff.

I see that people have brought monitor issue to discussion - you should really take into account that bass coming out of most monitors sounds like crap and there is no getting around that. Especially if you have anything other than bass alone coming out of it. And that is when you are standing right in front of them. For someone who likes to move around the stage it's really not ideal at all because you will be playing blind when you move six feet back. Lugging your own personal monitor (someone mentioned a 15" in the thread) is honestly rendering the whole ampless concept moot. At that point may as well grab one of the myriad of micro bass head products (little mark, TC electronic, Peavey minimax, Gallien Krueger MB series etc etc), pair it with a 2x10 cab that is often smaller than a 15" and even if even in size - still sounds much better) and call it a day.


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## bostjan (Aug 31, 2016)

In theory, there should be no reason why you couldn't get the FOH speakers to sound the same for a live performance than for a recording. But if you want monitors with more bass in them than what the audience hears, things could get iffy.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Aug 31, 2016)

Setup your tone against backing tracks in a band mix context so that when you do go out and play with other folks, you'll occupy the space that you need, and only the space that you need, complementing the entire band mix.


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## Fraz666 (Sep 1, 2016)

dax21 said:


> Fraz if you want to go for under $100 maybe check out Hartke's VXL Bass attack, used ones can be had for like 60-70 euros here and I imagine it can't be more expensive in Italy. It's a bit uncharacteristic for Hartke sound because it doesn't sound typically thin like most Hartke amps, instead it has ....ton of harmonics and can get that nice tube-ish sound.


thanks for the advice, now ebay does not help me to stay below 100&#8364;, I will try somewhere else


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## LordCashew (Sep 1, 2016)

dax21 said:


> Lugging your own personal monitor (someone mentioned a 15" in the thread) is honestly rendering the whole ampless concept moot. At that point may as well grab one of the myriad of micro bass head products (little mark, TC electronic, Peavey minimax, Gallien Krueger MB series etc etc), pair it with a 2x10 cab that is often smaller than a 15" and even if even in size - still sounds much better) and call it a day.



I see your point. But as I understand it, the idea of using the powered monitor is to get the flattest frequency response possible for working with ampless rigs that are setup to go direct to a full-range system like a PA, not to an amp. A bass amp and cab are not usually as flat in frequency response as a PA (though there are exceptions). With the full-range monitor, you are in theory hearing the tone more like it's coming through front of house.

I personally would prefer to use a small amp as well, but this setup was getting some pretty rave reviews on TalkBass a while ago (and was pretty cheap IIRC), so I thought I'd toss it out there.


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## hairychris (Sep 2, 2016)

A friend who is a pro player runs a SansAmp straight into front-of-house, no amp, so it's definitely an option!

EDIT: Spoke to him last weekend and chatted about all this. He uses a VT, IIRC. I have a Bass Driver DI which is cool but I only every really used it as a mid-gain guitar overdrive! My amp has a DI so if I play live I run that into the PA post EQ.

EDIT 2: My amp is a GK MB800 which is a bit of a savage.


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## Radau (Sep 4, 2016)

I use a Line 6 Helix and a Darkglass B7K, but that is the extreme end of the ampless section haha


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## laxu (Sep 11, 2016)

Why the Darkglass if you have the Line6 Helix (which I assume does at least a few bass amps)?


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## thrashcomics (Sep 11, 2016)

hairychris said:


> A friend who is a pro player runs a SansAmp straight into front-of-house, no amp, so it's definitely an option!
> 
> EDIT: Spoke to him last weekend and chatted about all this. He uses a VT, IIRC. I have a Bass Driver DI which is cool but I only every really used it as a mid-gain guitar overdrive! My amp has a DI so if I play live I run that into the PA post EQ.
> 
> EDIT 2: My amp is a GK MB800 which is a bit of a savage.



How do you like the MB800? I just ordered a B7K Ultra and am planning on getting a Quilter Bass Block to power it.


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## Radau (Sep 13, 2016)

laxu said:


> Why the Darkglass if you have the Line6 Helix (which I assume does at least a few bass amps)?



Depends where I am, if I'm somewhere I can bring the Darkglass I will. If it's not an option I have a tone that sounds similar with just the Helix. It does have bass amps (Mesa M9, 400+, Gallien Kreuger, Ampeg SVTs, etc)


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## auntyethel (Sep 15, 2016)

This is venue dependent, but +1 to the monitor issue. I played gigs in dingy clubs lining my PodHD500 straight into the PA, and whilst it sounded great to the audience, the kinda dodgy monitors onstage made it quite difficult to pick out what I was doing as the attack was pretty muddled (your venues may differ though). I started using a cheap Ibanez amp onstage, tilted, and it improved my ability onstage immensely. I get that that renders the ampless thing pointless, but POD -> PA sounded better offstage than POD -> Lame Amp -> PA.

Re at home, I used to have a Sansamp Bass Driver Deluxe, and it sounded great going straight into my breakout box and through my 'monitors'. I just like the POD for the split channeling and making boopy noises


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## hairychris (Sep 15, 2016)

thrashcomics said:


> How do you like the MB800? I just ordered a B7K Ultra and am planning on getting a Quilter Bass Block to power it.



Pretty good if you like the GK sound. 500w @ 8ohm/800w @ 4ohm always makes life interesting.

I don't know how the Bass Block sounds so can't give a comparison.


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## thrashcomics (Sep 15, 2016)

hairychris said:


> Pretty good if you like the GK sound. 500w @ 8ohm/800w @ 4ohm always makes life interesting.
> 
> I don't know how the Bass Block sounds so can't give a comparison.



I do really like the GK sound. Strange as it may seem, I did not like the B7K Ultra so I returned it. I am looking at either the GK MB800 or the Mesa D800.


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## dax21 (Sep 16, 2016)

Talking about GK sound... this thing is about to be released and is already up for preordering online.

Basically GK's answer to the jack of all trades funbox competition. DI, preamp, tuner, cab sim, compressor, overdrive... and USB interface for recording, all in one. And almost $100 cheaper than B7K.

I'm kinda sceptical about the crammed up layout and the tuner panel being so close to the footswitches but it might be good if the construction is rugged.


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## hairychris (Sep 16, 2016)

thrashcomics said:


> I do really like the GK sound. Strange as it may seem, I did not like the B7K Ultra so I returned it. I am looking at either the GK MB800 or the Mesa D800.



The fans can get quite noisy. They are on my unit but I do tend to use it pretty loud.


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## prlgmnr (Sep 18, 2016)

To stick my two pence in or what have you, I just got a VT Bass DI for home recording and I'm super happy with it. Something about it just stood out to me in all the online samples (though it isn't easy to find great samples) over something like the Microtubes or the Le Bass.


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## donsimon (Sep 20, 2016)

Suprised no one mentioned the Ampeg Scr-DI, i'm superhappy with mine, and IF you like the ampeg sound you can't go wrong with it.


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## Hollowway (Sep 26, 2016)

You guys that are going ampless - what frequency spectrum can you expect to hear? I have a new bass (NG2 5 string) tuned to F#, and I'm trying to figure out what if there's an ampless way I can do it, and play through headphones. But I've never played anything this low before, so I really have no idea what the heck I'm doing.


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## carcass (Oct 9, 2016)

i have been thinking a lot about minimizing (or maybe nano-mizing would be more appropriate to say) my bass gear and I found totay something that caught my eye (and almost bust out my left eyeball) .. I present to you Phil Jones Bas BigHead:











This is suposed to be bass headphone amplifier and also audio interface, more info about it is in the link below:

http://pjbworld.com/product_bighead_top.html

I am really excited about this unit and I think that this will replace everything I have in my home and use solely this with headphones or 5.1 speakers. Thoughts guys?


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## bostjan (Oct 10, 2016)

Hollowway said:


> You guys that are going ampless - what frequency spectrum can you expect to hear? I have a new bass (NG2 5 string) tuned to F#, and I'm trying to figure out what if there's an ampless way I can do it, and play through headphones. But I've never played anything this low before, so I really have no idea what the heck I'm doing.



F# is a little difficult, which is probably why few bands are bothering with F# on bass, but, IMO, is totally doable with a little thought and experimentation.

Pushing down close to 20 Hz for a fundamental (23 Hz, more or less, for F#0), some hardware just won't work with that frequency. Being unable to reproduce the fundamental isn't the end of the world, since people's ears (more correctly brains) will hear the overtones and figure out the fundamental automatically.

Having 37" scale length on the lowest string does some good for the tone, but it's really only one fret longer than 35", so your first fret G is going to be the same as a 35" scale bass playing open G, if it's tuned to that.

Playing notes quickly, that low, turns things percussive. For example, if you are hammering away 16th notes at quarter note = 170 bpm, you are getting out just about two wave cycles per note, which is not really enough for the human brain to understand as a sinusoidal sound wave. So the fundamental frequency is probably not that important unless you adjust your playing style to droning long notes.


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## Fathand (Oct 12, 2016)

Can't really go wrong with the Sansamp stuff, unless you are looking for some crystal clean sounds, because IMHO for that they really aren't the best option. 

Until it broke in the studio (yeah, dropped it and it was gone) I used a Bass driver for years. No matter what backline or direct just plug in, everything set to noon, and go. 

My bass playing friend swears on the Darkglass B7K and is pushing me to get one too, but I'm still on the fence. What I've heard it sounds good but I'm too used to the Sansamp. 

But there are a lot of options, if you don't have any budgetary limits. L.R Baggs just released the Stadium DI (IIRC) which does the same DI/OD thing + there also is the new bass version of the Fly Rig.


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## Yodel (Oct 16, 2016)

Fathand said:


> Can't really go wrong with the Sansamp stuff, unless you are looking for some crystal clean sounds, because IMHO for that they really aren't the best option.
> 
> Until it broke in the studio (yeah, dropped it and it was gone) I used a Bass driver for years. No matter what backline or direct just plug in, everything set to noon, and go.
> 
> ...



The Darkglass 7K I had wasn't half bad, stll went with the new BDDI V2 and it's just as good as the old Bass Driver with added mid knob and some other new features


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## Chiba666 (Oct 20, 2016)

I'm loking at iking up anew DI box after playing through a Sans amp for a while.

Narrowed it down to 3, Darkglass B7K, the darkglass Vintage deluxe or Ultra and the Ampeg DI box.

leaning towards the Vintage deluxe for a slighlty warmer tone as alot fo the B7K videos are abit to clanky.

Is the B7K or B7K Ultra ablet oget some warmth into it or is it clank all the way.


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## Infini (Oct 20, 2016)

Went with the Two Notes because it had a cab sim, was cheaper than the BK7U and it has tuuuuubes
But seriously I can't say enough good things about it, sounds insane
The OCD is for fuzzing things up when the guitarist goes to wank (was just for the weekend due to missing the other guitarist, will probably keep it on though)
The noise gate is because I'm running single coils and I like heavy compression, it can get loud if the gig has ....ty monitors.

If you're going for a low-end only style, you'll probably have a hard time because you'll only be hearing yourself through stage monitors which aren't really made for that. If it's a big place you can feel/hear the low end on the floor side monitors, but it'll be a problem on small gigs.

So my tips would probably be- if you want distortion, you'll most likely want a cab sim integrated pedal or somewhere on your board (the omnicab is probably a good choice)
A nice compressor is a must, Cali76, Keeley, Diamond, Supersymmetry, mxr87/76, don't cheap out!
Tuner of course and noisegate can save you if the in-house has old stuff with heavy EM interference


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