# ESP EII Eclipse, string gauge and action height



## thewolf49 (Feb 17, 2015)

So I just got an EII Eclipse (awesome) and just had a couple questions regarding string gauge, action height, truss rod adjustment, etc. The problem that I have is, and probably lots of other bedroom guitar players have, is that I'm constantly switching tunings to jam along with different songs, etc, so my truss rod, string gauge, and action can't really be set up to one particular spot. Hopefully that makes sense...

I want the lowest action possible...and I have 10-52 gauge strings on it now. I stay between drop C and E standard tuning. Should I go heavier? Will heavier strings be able to get better action since there is more tension? Does anyone have a measurement of what is considered "low" action in mm and the 1st and 12th fret etc.??


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## Tyler (Feb 17, 2015)

Honestly I'd get a cheap guitar for separate tunings. I always keep my guitars in one tuning with action at 1mm 1st fret, 1.5 or 2mm on the 12th


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## thewolf49 (Feb 17, 2015)

Tyler said:


> Honestly I'd get a cheap guitar for separate tunings. I always keep my guitars in one tuning with action at 1mm 1st fret, 1.5 or 2mm on the 12th


 
1mm for all strings at 1st fret? Isn't that really damn high for the 1st fret? lol


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## TheRileyOBrien (Feb 17, 2015)

thewolf49 said:


> So I just got an EII Eclipse (awesome) and just had a couple questions regarding string gauge, action height, truss rod adjustment, etc. The problem that I have is, and probably lots of other bedroom guitar players have, is that I'm constantly switching tunings to jam along with different songs, etc, so my truss rod, string gauge, and action can't really be set up to one particular spot. Hopefully that makes sense...
> 
> I want the lowest action possible...and I have 10-52 gauge strings on it now. I stay between drop C and E standard tuning. Should I go heavier? Will heavier strings be able to get better action since there is more tension? Does anyone have a measurement of what is considered "low" action in mm and the 1st and 12th fret etc.??



For "low action" I would shoot for 2mm or less on the 6th string and 1.5mm or less on the 1st string(measured at 12th fret). 

Set the guitar up in the middle of your tuning range. I have had some guitars that I frequently switched from standard to drop c and I set them up a half step down. This way when I go standard the action raises a bit and in drop c it lowers a bit(it's actually the neck bow changing). If you aren't too picky and if your frets are leveled properly you can likely change tunings without any truss rod adjustments. It won't be optimal unless you are playing a half step down...but it certainly works for bedroom playing. I used 10-52 on said guitars as well because the tension is usable throughout that tuning range. Once again, not optimal but practical. 

Worse case you can just leave your truss rod cover off and make slight adjustments when you change tuning.


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## thewolf49 (Feb 17, 2015)

TheRileyOBrien said:


> For "low action" I would shoot for 2mm or less on the 6th string and 1.5mm or less on the 1st string(measured at 12th fret).
> 
> Set the guitar up in the middle of your tuning range. I have had some guitars that I frequently switched from standard to drop c and I set them up a half step down. This way when I go standard the action raises a bit and in drop c it lowers a bit(it's actually the neck bow changing). If you aren't too picky and if your frets are leveled properly you can likely change tunings without any truss rod adjustments. It won't be optimal unless you are playing a half step down...but it certainly works for bedroom playing. I used 10-52 on said guitars as well because the tension is usable throughout that tuning range. Once again, not optimal but practical.
> 
> Worse case you can just leave your truss rod cover off and make slight adjustments when you change tuning.


 
Whats your string height at the 1st fret? (height from bottom of string to top of fret at 1st fret)


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## Pan3optic3on (Feb 17, 2015)

I used to use 9 11 16 24 32 and a 46 for standard/drop D and 10 13 17 26 36 and a 50 for drop c as used to swap between them when I wanted to play in different tunings. I found those two gauges pretty much the best for that and didnt need a truss rod adjustment because they are pretty much balanced for those tunings. I used to do this on a floyd rose guitar though as it was much easier to swap strings than a fixed bridge. You could possibly use a hybrid set of 9-46. You would only need to reintonate it when switching up and down but the drop C tuning is going to be slack on the sixth string. Have a look at DR strings, and some of the dimebag range as they make a variety interesting of gauge sets. I'd advise setting a small bit of relief in standard so when you tune down to drop C the slight bow in the neck will only be fractional and you shouldnt get any fret buzz. The only downside is that you will have to adapt to the playability, action and reintonating when you tune up or down. I used to switch gauge for this reason as it was much easier to do that than spend time making adjustments. The downside was that my strings would go dead quicker and would have to take care taking them off and putting them on again because they had been wound into shape, plus there was restretching and the possibility of the cursed E string snap


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## TheRileyOBrien (Feb 17, 2015)

.5mm ish at first fret for all the strings.


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## thewolf49 (Feb 18, 2015)

So I (kinda) measured my action at the 12th fret. I was able to stick a 1mm pick under the bass side with just a tad of room left before it hit the string, and the treble side the string held the 1mm pick there. I think I'm around 1.5mm bass and 1mm treble. So pretty good I guess  This is with the 52-10 strings in standard tuning. The truss rod is set for drop C so I thought this was pretty good. Acceptable buzz nothing crazy.


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## TheRileyOBrien (Feb 18, 2015)

thewolf49 said:


> So I (kinda) measured my action at the 12th fret. I was able to stick a 1mm pick under the bass side with just a tad of room left before it hit the string, and the treble side the string held the 1mm pick there. I think I'm around 1.5mm bass and 1mm treble. So pretty good I guess  This is with the 52-10 strings in standard tuning. The truss rod is set for drop C so I thought this was pretty good. Acceptable buzz nothing crazy.




That is great for standard tuning. However, If you drop it to c the board will flatten out due to lower tension and the action will get lower and will likely buzz.


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## thewolf49 (Feb 18, 2015)

TheRileyOBrien said:


> That is great for standard tuning. However, If you drop it to c the board will flatten out due to lower tension and the action will get lower and will likely buzz.


 
I could probably even go lower if I wanted. This EII is damn nice - I was worried since I've seen some subpar review of the EII series but it seems like an ESP Standard to me.


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## TheRileyOBrien (Feb 18, 2015)

thewolf49 said:


> I could probably even go lower if I wanted. This EII is damn nice - I was worried since I've seen some subpar review of the EII series but it seems like an ESP Standard to me.



Well the only way to tell for sure is to drop it down to c and see what happens. 

I think people are just upset about the name change. They think they are somehow inferior. By all accounts they haven't changed anything but the name. I have played a few of the EII and they were identical to the "ESP" labeled ones I have played/owned. I like their stuff but I'm just not a finished neck guy.


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## thewolf49 (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm lucky because I live 20 minutes away from a local luthier that owns a PLEK machine, one of about 12 in the country.


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## Pan3optic3on (Feb 18, 2015)

thewolf49 said:


> So I (kinda) measured my action at the 12th fret. I was able to stick a 1mm pick under the bass side with just a tad of room left before it hit the string, and the varyble side the string held the 1mm pick there. I think I'm around 1.5mm bass and 1mm treble. So pretty good I guess  This is with the 52-10 strings in standard tuning. The truss rod is set for drop C so I thought this was pretty good. Acceptable buzz nothing crazy.



That sounds about right and if it settles good for drop C then that is good too (Im guessing you raise the saddles or bridge to accommodate the tension shift?). I tend to check the relief by capoing the the first fret, holding down the last fret( 24th on my guitars ) and checking the string height on the 7 fret. That fret can vary from guitar to guitar. Usually the best range is between 0.4mm to 0.8 at a push. Some like as much as 1mm but then youll have fret buzz with a low action.

If you can play the guitar like this then maybe its best to leave it as it is. The only thing (if it was me) I would keep a spare 46 gauge around for standard tuning, as 52 is quite a whomping tension for E.

Just add though, it sounds like a 10-52 hybrid set, in which case dont use a 46, that will throw the balance out.


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## Mprinsje (Feb 18, 2015)

10-52 on a 24.75" should work fine for anything from drop C to standard. It's a lot cheaper than buying a new guitar for other tunings


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## thewolf49 (Feb 18, 2015)

So capo the first fret, press down the 22nd fret, and measure my relief where? What fret?


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## Pan3optic3on (Feb 18, 2015)

thewolf49 said:


> So capo the first fret, press down the 22nd fret, and measure my relief where? What fret?



Im not 100 percent sure on that, I use 25.5 scale, looking at youre spec, its a 24.75. You can most likely find out from the manufacturer or someone on here that uses them and uses this method regularly. By all accounts if you measure half distance from 22 to 0 that should mark the spot. You are going to need a baseline increment ruler for this btw so you can measure directly on top of the fret up to the string.


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## Pan3optic3on (Feb 18, 2015)

Ok, did a bit of hunting, its the 8th fret like a 25.5 not the 7th which was a typo. Double check just to be sure. Itll essentially be the lowest point of the gradient on any fretboard. If you have a flatter type radius fret board then you can get the gap down quite low. Curved ones dont do so well as the frets arc into the string to cause fret buzz or choking when bending strings so a litle bit of relief is need for those. As pointed out by someone else, the scale neck you have and the tension will be fine for what you are doing with that gauge. Itll just need intonating. I wouldnt worry to much about the truss rod. If you do have a go, small turns only, no yanking. If youve never done this before id advise to read about it first because your amazing guitar could be come an amazing guitar with a fooked up neck very quickly.


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## thewolf49 (Feb 20, 2015)

Alright, got an actual action gauge and I'm sitting at 1.5mm low E and 1mm high E. 1.75mm and 1.5mm (high and low) at 22nd fret if I remember right. 

I took it to the guy with the PLEK machine, scanned the frets, and they are pretty much perfectly level straight from the factory. That can attest to the E-II's if anyone has their doubts. I should post the scan if I can get ahold of it. The nut and bridge saddles did need some leveling out with each other though.


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## Pan3optic3on (Feb 20, 2015)

thewolf49 said:


> Alright, got an actual action gauge and I'm sitting at 1.5mm low E and 1mm high E. 1.75mm and 1.5mm (high and low) at 22nd fret if I remember right.
> 
> I took it to the guy with the PLEK machine, scanned the frets, and they are pretty much perfectly level straight from the factory. That can attest to the E-II's if anyone has their doubts. I should post the scan if I can get ahold of it. The nut and bridge saddles did need some leveling out with each other though.



That's good  The action height wasn't really the concern, nor the straightness of the fretboard in relation to the frets. It was to answer the question about guitar string gauges really and how the tension will affect the fretboard, which you've pretty much described happens when you change tuning. This is normal. 

The truss rod adjustment is something you use very little if at all if you stick to one set of strings. For guitarists who like to try different tunings then some minor truss rod adjustments may be needed at times.

The neck relief is different to action height as you can lower the strings to 1mm/1.5mm even if the neck relief is deep or shallow. The difference is that a shallower action at those ranges will have a much more responsive feel, easier to bend and with less fret buzz in the upper region of the fretboard.

Some guitars come with a short instruction manual about the truss rod and the recommended measurement for the neck relief.

Bottom line is that your fretboard was set up in drop C so when you tune up to E standard there wont be a problem because you are only gaining under half a mm on both sides. If you were to tune down to C Standard/Bflat/B standard etc, the neck relief is going to decrease and you will most certainly start getting fret buzz from the neck arcing back.

If you were to put on a light gauge suitable for E standard the neck should balance out perfectly and you would achieve the same action height as the drop C tuning.

I hope this answered your question.

Nice guitar btw.


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