# How do you afford guitars from custom shops and high end instruments?



## /wrists (Oct 14, 2021)

Have always been interested in where wealth and money comes from, and it appears a lot of you are r1ch! I am curious what you gentlemen & ladies (are there even women on the internet), do for a living. I see people on threads with 3 custom shops (that's around $12-15K) for just three guitars. What exactly is that you guys do that you can afford these instruments?

I get having a job, and I have one myself, but I have a difficult time dropping anything more than $1.5K on a used guitar. I wouldn't ever drop $1K on a new guitar because that would speak too much volume about where that guitar is made.

I'm curious if it's bad financial decisions, impulse purchases, or you're just straight loaded. And if you are able to make these decisions, you needed to some extent, the initial capital so I'm curious what the story behind your purchases are. I'd like to hear them even if you were saving for years and were finally able to afford one, etc.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 14, 2021)

Luck.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 14, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Luck.


Connoisseur of the used goods, I see.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Oct 14, 2021)

evade said:


> Connoisseur of the used goods, I see.



Not really. Probably 50/50.


----------



## Spicypickles (Oct 14, 2021)

I get all mine used, and haven’t paid more than 1k for anything. Lots o’patience is required


----------



## bostjan (Oct 14, 2021)

I'm a physicist. I work in R&D, but, at the time I did most of my big purchases, I was a professional musician and concurrently an adjunct college professor.

I have three full customs from well-respected luthiers and a couple from smaller luthiers. The first one cost me under $3k. The small shop ones cost me under $1.5k each. The other two were a major life decision based on a special circumstance at the time that I prefer not to get into.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 14, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not really. Probably 50/50.





bostjan said:


> I'm a physicist. I work in R&D, but, at the time I did most of my big purchases, I was a professional musician and concurrently an adjunct college professor.
> 
> I have three full customs from well-respected luthiers and a couple from smaller luthiers. The first one cost me under $3k. The small shop ones cost me under $1.5k each. The other two were a major life decision based on a special circumstance at the time that I prefer not to get into.



Makes sense. Thanks for sharing. Definitely interesting.


----------



## spudmunkey (Oct 14, 2021)

Priorities: Guitar now, or save for retirement?

I never said it was a good decision.


----------



## Dekay82 (Oct 14, 2021)

Be a rags to upper middle class success story starring a punk white trash protagonist who joined the army, turned his life life around, went to a good school (GI Bill), has a good job and family with three incomes and a wife that tightly controls dem purse strangzz.


----------



## narad (Oct 14, 2021)

As you say, some people have 3 custom shops ($12-15k) in guitars. Which is a below average car that many families have 2 of. Which is a penny in the cost of a several hundred thousand dollar house, which many regular (read: non-loaded) people have. So the question of how someone could afford $15k to spend on a hobby doesn't seem very interesting. It's always struck me as a matter of priorities than means.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Oct 14, 2021)

A lot of folks buy used, and even if you buy new it's still an absurd amount of money to absolutely anyone. I never tell someone I ordered a custom guitar for 3.5 - 4k and expect them to feel like that's normal because it really isn't.

But it's not impossible to save towards something, people should have other goals like being debt free and saving towards a home. But everyone's circumstances are different, lets say you have both those goals covered and you make an income of 50k a year.

You'll pay anywhere from 12 - 22% of that to the tax man, so lets say your take home salary is between 39,000 - 44,000 or 3250 - 3666.66 per month.

Assuming single, 1br1ba apartment, eating for one, and normal expenditures.

1400/1700 - Rent (Depends on area)
300ish - Car Payment
200 - Groceries
50 - Eating Out
120 - Utilities
70 - Insurance (Full Time Health Benefit/Renters)
120 - Internet/Phone

Comes out to 2260 or 2560 depending on average cost of renting a safe, 1br1ba apartment. Leaving you with the leftover amount to set aside every month. And you can make due with aggressive budgeting and eliminate some of those costs.

Assuming cheaper 1400 rent and 12% income tax, you'd have 1406.66 a month to use as you see fit save/invest/waste on shit you might not need . Assuming the opposite (more expensive rent/22% income tax) you'd net 990 a month.

So $990 * 12 = 11880 saved a year.
or
$1406.66 * 12 = 16879.92 saved a year.

You *should *save most of that for your future, grow it easily by being smart. But there's clearly some cash there that can be used for some purchases. I also know this isn't everyone's experience, but I don't think anyone here buying multiple guitars is in poverty 

If you're lower middle class at the end of the day making 40 - 50k a year you can easily afford to buy plenty of guitars even with less money you can probably afford to save up for multiple 1 - 1.5k instruments or over two or three years order a nice 3 - 4k Custom Guitar. The higher up you go the more this scales as well.

One last thing to consider is a lot of us don't just have all of these guitars and just keep adding to the hobby's cost. We trade, we sell, we buy, it's all about moving money and assets around and replacing something with another thing and then slowly adding to the herd over the years.

I work in a mix of IT/Systems/Development roles personally, I definitely impulse buy some rare stuff if I spot it and really want it but I've gotten better at consolidating and saving more money in the last 5 years.


----------



## bostjan (Oct 14, 2021)

spudmunkey said:


> Priorities: Guitar now, or save for retirement?
> 
> I never said it was a good decision.


Meh, unless you're a boomer (or very lucky), you'll likely be working until your dead anyway.


----------



## CovertSovietBear (Oct 14, 2021)

*Buy more money, duh*


----------



## ArtDecade (Oct 14, 2021)

Married. We are both paid well. No kids.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 14, 2021)

Middle class dude with no debt, a good paying job (travel nursing with ems/ccrn background) and very minimal expenses.
It helps that I have a dedicated GAS fund that I sock a bunch of money into each month.
I've become much more picky about what I buy anymore, so it's easy to hold out for a few months (or longer) to get something I really want.


----------



## Mboogie7 (Oct 14, 2021)

Budget and money management. It’s not the most exciting answer, but it helps get you want you want.

I work in Aerospace, to answer your question.


----------



## budda (Oct 14, 2021)

Buying used. I am not rich, neither is my household. Guitars are just what I spend money on.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Oct 14, 2021)

Vasectomy 

I don't keep expensive guitars around, I'm much more comfortable playing a cheap plank with upgraded hardware.

Amps, though. It's a a combination of priorities and patience. Knowing what good deals are, when/where/how to find them, knowing how to haggle. Knowing what you like and what it's worth to you. Knowing what's worth money to others. A thousand or two isn't that much if you plan for it, odds are you're spending that much on random bullshit a few times over each year anyway.

I am poor. I receive renter's assistance, and have been on food stamps numerous times. I have flipped almost every amp I've ever bought for a profit, and generally funded the next one with that cash. I've also managed to fund a few big purchase here and there on the side of that hustle. It's all about priorities. And luck. 

Once you have the money the rest is almost pure luck. Just show up with a wad of bills and roll the dice every day (check CL, reverb, marketplace, here, etc) and if a winner shows up in your price range don't hesitate because you're not the only one looking.


----------



## CerealKiller (Oct 14, 2021)

I saved up for my first high-end guitar, a Vigier, for about a year working while studying, I scraped everything I could together to get that guitar.
Now I'm paid pretty well and have very few expenses - no kids, cheap used car, cheap apartment. I don't consider myself rich, but I can buy a guitar if I want to. Here a new car will easily set you back 10 times the cost of a high end guitar, a house >100 times.


----------



## odibrom (Oct 14, 2021)

Spicypickles said:


> ... Lots o’patience is required



To this I'll add FOCUS on specific pieces of gear instead of getting things on impulse because it's trendy at some point.

I don't have any custom guitar, but I've customized all I own, some deeper than others. This taught me lots of things about what I want/need in a guitar. And as I've commented some time ago with @IbanezDaemon, he has lots of different guitars (because he can), but _I have all guitars in one_ (this one guitar features 145 different tones combinations out of 2 hums and piezos)...

I can say I've gathered a nice amount of gear, either in guitars as well as with amplification within the last...30 years on this "hobby". I have no bank dept, own my house, get a fairly well payed check each month so why not? I'm not a spender/flipper, I'll buy what I think will fit my needs, specially guitars. so, to me is Focus, Patience, good money management/savings...


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Oct 14, 2021)

Not rich, but upper middle class I suppose here. It was a long road, and a lot of hard work to get there though. Also I'm a single dude with no kids.


I work in visual effects for movies/tv. FYI: Junior rates aren't great with today's cost of living. But if one gets in and is talented enough and experienced enough to make it to a senior level then you can make really good money if you're in the right department. (hint: FX and compositing are where the dollars are at....they're also harder ha)

I myself came out of FX, but I've moved onto Mini Bossman for now. I was Head of FX at one of the big studios for a few years (shocking I know given how much goofy stuff I post lol), but I've recently shifted over to CG supervisor. 

Anywho, I live pretty frugally overall especially over the last 3 years. I'm basically a monk now until I can save up enough for a nice house so I have a couple more years of that to go ha. 

I only have 1 custom, but I have a few $2k-$3k guitars. I'll get more someday.....but I'm frugal. So I'll hit my savings goals first before purchasing anything. *also I never buy anything on credit. I only ever purchase if I have the cash on hand and free to spend. No cash on hand = no buy no matter how much I want something.


----------



## ArtDecade (Oct 14, 2021)

thebeesknees22 said:


> *also I never buy anything on credit. I only ever purchase if I have the cash on hand and free to spend. No cash on hand = no buy no matter how much I want something.



I get the money on hand and then I buy on credit and collect the points, offers, gifts, etc. You never know when you might need miles or some extra bonus cash on Amazon. Plus, you just pay it off when the bill comes in.


----------



## SamSam (Oct 14, 2021)

I don't drink and have no debt.

My purchasing isnt extravagant as it used to be as I am currently paying for two homes (one rent and one ore build purchase).

When the new place is done you better believe I'll be smashing it again though!

Long term relationship and one child. Both paid above our national average. Substantially more in my case, however I must say I have cut down my hours a fair bit in the last year and a half as I really felt my son and I weren't bonding as well as we should. Best decision I've ever made.


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Oct 14, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> I get the money on hand and then I buy on credit and collect the points, offers, gifts, etc. You never know when you might need miles or some extra bonus cash on Amazon. Plus, you just pay it off when the bill comes in.



oh yeah that's actually what I do. I just pay my credit card off every week right after purchasing. Good point though.

I suppose a better way to word what I meant is: I never buy purely on credit.


----------



## bostjan (Oct 14, 2021)

I hate to sound flippant or whatever, but, people these days who go to college are paying over $25k on their education, usually in fields that will earn them less than joining a skilled trade and doing a paid apprenticeship. My eldest son wanted to go to art school, and the tuition there was that much a *year*, yet the school is packed full of students studying art and paying $100k for a four year degree. So, in comparison to that, a couple of custom guitars is really just a drop in the bucket.

Or, say, instead of a guitar, you want to get some nifty downhill skis and take that up as a hobby. The average cost of a broken leg is $35k, not counting lost wages, finance fees, or a myriad of other nickel-and-dime fees. So, a couple of custom guitars is still cheaper than taking up downhill skiing.

Or, say you don't live in the world's weirdest nation. Say you live in Canada instead. You've got your health care covered and college is totally affordable, as long as you are a decent enough student. Ah, but the average home price there is $375k (USD), so a couple of custom guitars is just a drop in the bucket.

It's really all about perspective and your current living situation.


----------



## vejichan (Oct 14, 2021)

I wish i was rich but it's all about money management, when i was single I did the following

-quit smoking/drinking alcohol
-don't drive a car
-quit videogames
-work 2 jobs
-eat pasta and cereal and drink only water

I did that for 2 years and BAM, saved enough money for a new custom guitar!

So now that I have a family, i just save 100$ a month and every 4 years BAM, saved enough money for a new custom guitar!
Its all about sacrifice and saving money. No buying video games/going out to eat/going to clubs/concerts/no beer/coffee/nothing...
Save 100$ a month, thats 1200$ a year and in 4 years that's 4800$. If you can save 300$ a month, a new custom guitar in 2 years... well you get the idea. If you can't do that then you don't want that custom guitar bad enough.


----------



## mmr007 (Oct 14, 2021)

I’m a nigerian prince and I have found that many people are susceptible…I mean open to my fair business proposition.


----------



## ArtDecade (Oct 14, 2021)

mmr007 said:


> I’m a nigerian prince and I have found that many people are susceptible…I mean open to my fair business proposition.



I'm glad I was able to help you get your money back, Prince. The internet has your back!


----------



## vejichan (Oct 14, 2021)

vejichan said:


> I wish i was rich but it's all about money management, when i was single I did the following
> 
> -quit smoking/drinking alcohol
> -don't drive a car
> ...



If you can't wait 4 years..this is how I would do it if i was single again. So let's say you decide on the specs/woods that you want for your custom guitar.. you know the builder/dealer you want to go with. Print that and tape it to your wall. Thats your Goal. You then check with your dealer and got a quote of 4k. Start saving...once you get to 1k, you have enough to put a deposit with a dealer and to get the build going. Most builds take 7-8 months.. that means you need to save about 375$ a month- don't use your money for anything else other than food/rent and after 8 months you should be able to come up with 3k. I've done it not only for custom guitars but for amps etc...when i was single of course but if you are married you have other expenses and you will need more time to save. Good Luck!


----------



## Rosal76 (Oct 14, 2021)

vejichan said:


> I wish i was rich but it's all about money management, when i was single I did the following



Huge +1 to both of your replies. The problem that I hear from a lot of people is that when they save money, it always has to be for something they want to buy. I save money, just to save money. Not because I want to buy something or I'm saving up for something. Because I save money, I'll have it when I see something I need/want to buy. People should save money anyways because you'll never know when you'll need it in an emergency.


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Oct 14, 2021)

bostjan said:


> I hate to sound flippant or whatever, but, people these days who go to college are paying over $25k on their education, usually in fields that will earn them less than joining a skilled trade and doing a paid apprenticeship....
> .




Can confirm. Art school is ridiculously expensive. I went to SCAD in Savannah, GA which at the time I went it was around $28k a year. I had just enough scholarship money rounded up that it wasn't quite that bad for me, and that was almost 20 years ago. Now...it's waaay waay more expensive. 

Going to art school is a bit like jumping off a cliff and hoping you'll hit the water and not the rocks below. I got super lucky. Many others didn't. I never quite understood how the painting, fashion, sequential art, and whatnot kids were going to pay off their loans. And a lot of those kids I knew were there on loans at the time.

At least with vfx and anim the potential career earnings can justify the price tag in the end. *if one can make it into the industry.

Nowadays though there are much cheaper programs in Canada for vfx and animation that are 1-2 yr programs that can get someone in that I would recommend instead. Or an online school like Anim School or Pixar's program...whatever it's called..I forget...


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 14, 2021)

Not going to lie, I dont usually suggest payment plan things, but Zzounds and AMS are absolutely killer on this stuff. I have bought quite a few things >$1-2k from them and never had an issue with them, and even had them move my payment a month a few times when I needed to, and they asked no questions except "how it playing for you?"

Other than zzounds, I save a "tithe" from my paycheck and use my tax refunds on things like that.

I also refurbished my home myself after a house fire, was able to make myself rent free with a little elbow grease. Bought cheap ass home, fixed up cheap home, sitting about 15K into the house total after fixing and now live rent free with my wife and two kids. Only thing I pay is property tax every 6 months and that's about 400 bucks a year. This definitely helps my gear fund, but the point I was trying to make is that I worked very hard in this aspect of my life to make other parts easier.


----------



## laxu (Oct 14, 2021)

Zero debt, no kids, don't smoke, don't do drugs, drink in moderation, don't own a car, have a well paying job as a web developer. 10 years ago I would not have been able to afford them, but even now it's not like I can just buy custom guitars left and right, but let's say I could afford to do it a few times a year depending on the cost of the instrument. But at this point I have pretty much all the guitars I need and only a few of them are higher end stuff and one of them was bought used.

Remember that the folks with several custom guitars did not buy them overnight. For example I have bought my most expensive guitars as a birthday gift to myself over several years. Some of my guitars I have owned for more than a decade now.

Also if you play the used market you can buy, try, sell and buy something else without losing much money. Especially useful if you are into pedals. It does require patience if you are looking for something newly released.

While depending on where you live and what the pay is for your profession there can matter, guitar gear is not super expensive if you don't insist on PRS Private Stocks or whatever. If you are not living paycheck to paycheck I think it's totally feasible to save up enough to buy a higher end guitar, used if need be. Or save up in general. Some make good money but spend it like the world is ending so by the end of the month they are running low whereas I mainly make larger purchases here and there during the year and live moderately. Those expensive coffees on your way to work, eating out for lunch every day, going out to a bar every Friday night etc add up.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 14, 2021)

Wife, 2 kids, 5 employees. I will spend $100K on my business no questions asked, but I have a hard time spending even $100 on myself.


----------



## vejichan (Oct 14, 2021)

Rosal76 said:


> Huge +1 to both of your replies. The problem that I hear from a lot of people is that when they save money, it always has to be for something they want to buy. I save money, just to save money. Not because I want to buy something or I'm saving up for something. Because I save money, I'll have it when I see something I need/want to buy. People should save money anyways because you'll never know when you'll need it in an emergency.



Agreed 100%...some people just don't have the patience to wait or they have other things they want to buy. You need to want that custom guitar or amp bad enough or else it's not happening. I worked and busted my ass when I was single to buy the gear that I wanted. I gave up alot and didn't date or have any social life. A custom guitar or a nice tube amp is good at driving/ inspiring you to work hard. But the hard part is sacrifice, are you ok with not driving a car and just walking or taking public transportation... are you ok with not going to a restaurant/bar with your friends, are you ok with not buying coffee at starbucks every morning, are you ok with eating and cooking at home every day. No vacations or traveling or anything. If you have the discpline to do that, your reward is a custom guitar in 2 years. I actually enjoy the 8 months wait after you order the guitar, it gives me something to look forward to.


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Oct 14, 2021)

With lots of remorse usually. I find it difficult to spend money on myself, especially on something that I consider extra. Had the same thing when I bought myself a new car; immediate remorse. It wears off after a while. Typically the thoughts are driven by "what else could I do with this money?".

FWIW I work as a demand planner and a freelance data analyst. I'd like to say I do well for myself but I live in California so most of my money goes to the tax man. My freelance work is taxed at around a 40% rate.


----------



## eaeolian (Oct 14, 2021)

I work in software development, I buy used, and I built my latest two myself (from parts, I haven't gone full luthier like some here have.)

The Jackson CS I have came from when I was an endorser, 20 years ago. Most of my stuff is old, but not in the "I collect '59 Les Pauls" fashion.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Oct 14, 2021)

My guitars give the illusion that I’m rich but I’m a minimalist who grew up with very little money so I have trouble spending money as an adult. I also work a lot and I’m really good at saving. When I finally got decent money in my 20s I bought a few guitars and some gear but would sell anything I wasn’t using. That way you are constantly recycling money. After a while I had enough money saved up that I ordered my first custom. 

Compared to the cost of a car. I have to pay tax, insurance, NCT, fuel, mechanic fees and factor in the constant depreciation every year. That’s money gone that I’ll never see again where I’ve sold customs years later for what I originally paid.


----------



## jayarpeggios (Oct 14, 2021)

I don't feel like I'm rich, but I am well off and pretty good at saving / investing. I work in film / games and after taxes have about 15k per month to work with (before bills). I have zero debt, I already built a sizable nest egg, live in a one bedroom (although that's still very expensive here), and drive a car from 2004. After paying bills I either have play money for guitars etc or to invest it, I use the vast majority of the money to invest but yeah I like nice guitars lol. So I am lucky that I can easily afford 2 or 3 guitars (~3k+ each) per year without really thinking about the money.

That said, ~8 years ago I was working part-time at minimum wage ($7 ish per hour) and I was still able to save up money and buy my self a JPX, a custom, an axe fx, and a few other guitars around the 1k range. I lived pretty damn tight on money and any opportunity to make extra money here and there I took. At one point I got motivated because of always being hungry (yes, yes I absolutely did forgo food to save for guitars lol) and not being able to buy the gear I wanted... comfortably anyways. I took the risk on going to college and I worked fucking hard to get a damn near 4.0 GPA. I lucked out on my first job and set a solid base on my resume, but it wasn't in the space I wanted. Luckily I was still working hard on my own personal projects and a company saw my talent and gave me an opportunity (so lucked out on the 2nd job), then given that experience I lucked out on my 3rd job and it expanded my career even more. Honestly, I worked hard as fuck but I was also super lucky to build my career so quickly in the 4 years that I've been out of school. It took risks and blood/tears/sweat but I'm happy it paid off.


----------



## mlp187 (Oct 14, 2021)

heyoooo! My undergrad degree is applied physics. Decided to hit the workforce instead of pursuing graduate school so I could have a family before I got too old (I’m a late bloomer), but strongly considering pursuing a related discipline in graduate school once both my kids are in school.
I really just wanted to say I love encountering physicists in the wild.


bostjan said:


> I'm a physicist. I work in R&D, but, at the time I did most of my big purchases, I was a professional musician and concurrently an adjunct college professor.
> 
> I have three full customs from well-respected luthiers and a couple from smaller luthiers. The first one cost me under $3k. The small shop ones cost me under $1.5k each. The other two were a major life decision based on a special circumstance at the time that I prefer not to get into.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 14, 2021)

I really appreciate everyone's perspectives - it's very relieving to me to say the least.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 14, 2021)

mlp187 said:


> heyoooo! My undergrad degree is applied physics.



Hey man, I got one of my degrees in that shit too! Experimental (condensed matter).


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Oct 14, 2021)

I got lucky as hell with some sales, I wouldn't say I ripped some dudes off but they very much wanted what I had and were willing to give me trades that left me able to make a lot of money on it. I used that to artificially inflate the amount of money I had invested in guitar gear and now that I'm putting more in am I only losing money, pretty much all of which will get returned once I sell my current gear I'm replacing.

Long story short I turned an iron label Ibby into a triple rec and a broken schecter into 2 grand with trading and buying rare guitars. I also don't buy new at ALL and sell whenever I want something new. I don't have an amp for both cost purposes and convenience, plus the plugins I have sound 95% as good as a real Diezel which I'll never see and I can record easy as hell. 

It's luck, knowing what you've got and when to shuffle around, but also what you should keep and what you should sell. In my case nothing is sacred since I'm still finding out what I like but once my current listings sell and I'm down to 2 electrics I think I'll be set, since they're 2 I'll never see again and they fulfill every need I can imagine.


----------



## Dayn (Oct 14, 2021)

I don't make much money, comparatively for my profession, at any rate. I also loathe spending big chunks of money on myself. So all I have is from saving constantly until my desire finally overcomes my guilt.


----------



## gunch (Oct 14, 2021)

This is the year I break my own cycle of buying <200 usd guitars or trying to get mid range fixer uppers and get something nice for once.
(I say this every year as my interest and patience for guitar gets less and less while I'm also trying to juggle a PC hardware and digital art hobby.)

Just waiting for my "Dobby has been given a sock" moment.


----------



## StevenC (Oct 14, 2021)

Out of curiosity and not to condescend, how old are you? I joined this forum before I went to university and had similar thoughts about people here, but now I'm in the sort of position as those people that seemed to be posting monthly NGDs and I sort of understand it now. 

It's a lot of prioritising what you spend your money on. I don't really drink or go out and I don't have any dependents, so all my spare money is clear to go to guitars. Obviously anyone able to prioritise a $3k+ guitar is in a decently privileged place already, but I know some people that do spend all their money on gear before they spend it on their situation.

But yeah, it's a hobby. People don't really cost out other hobbies the same way they do guitars. Cycling is crazy expensive, people spend custom guitar money on a graphics card every year or two, and then there's people buying the best phone every year.


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 14, 2021)

My high school trombone was 4500 bucks and while it was a very nice instrument, its no where near high end....

We're spoiled in our community, as even high high end guitars don't even scratch the surface of my friends car habits. A few friends from high school have 20-30k in their 90's Honda's and Mitsubishi's.


----------



## budda (Oct 14, 2021)

The amount of people who say they are very reluctant to spend money on themselves has surprised me.


----------



## Alberto7 (Oct 14, 2021)

Partner and I have no plans for kids, no car, we rent, we're both paid somewhat above average wages for our area, I work a lot of extra hours and I'm paid overtime, and we only really spend on basics and passions. I still make room for savings and investments.

I only started making real money in the last 3 years (in my late 20s). I've bought some high end gear over the last 1 year and a half, though I admit it was slightly reactionary to never having been able to spend on gear I liked when I was younger.

That and I'm comfortable knowing that the guitars I've bought probably won't depreciate too much if I ever decide to sell them. I do treat them like sunk costs whenever I make any financial decisions though.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Oct 14, 2021)

I've worked in software development for 15 years. It pays pretty well. That said, wife and I just had our first baby last year and have a second on the way so I will probably stop buying new toys for a while as she is a stay at home mom.


----------



## Alberto7 (Oct 14, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> My high school trombone was 4500 bucks and while it was a very nice instrument, its no where near high end....
> 
> We're spoiled in our community, as even high high end guitars don't even scratch the surface of my friends car habits. A few friends from high school have 20-30k in their 90's Honda's and Mitsubishi's.



One of my best friends went to music school as a double bassist. Poor as shit going into school. Had a meh bass that ran him like $15k.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 14, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> We're spoiled in our community, as even high high end guitars don't even scratch the surface of my friends car habits. A few friends from high school have 20-30k in their 90's Honda's and Mitsubishi's.



No kidding... If people think $3k is bad for a guitar hobby, don't get into Jeep Rock Crawling!



budda said:


> The amount of people who say they are very reluctant to spend money on themselves has surprised me.



Well, I look at it like this... I can either spend $20k on guitars, or I can give people project completion/Christmas bonuses. So what do I do? I buy a few dirt bikes!


----------



## mlp187 (Oct 14, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> Hey man, I got one of my degrees in that shit too! Experimental (condensed matter).


Hell yes!!! Scientists unite!


----------



## /wrists (Oct 14, 2021)

> Out of curiosity and not to condescend, how old are you? I joined this forum before I went to university and had similar thoughts about people here, but now I'm in the sort of position as those people that seemed to be posting monthly NGDs and I sort of understand it now.
> 
> It's a lot of prioritising what you spend your money on. I don't really drink or go out and I don't have any dependents, so all my spare money is clear to go to guitars. Obviously anyone able to prioritise a $3k+ guitar is in a decently privileged place already, but I know some people that do spend all their money on gear before they spend it on their situation.
> 
> But yeah, it's a hobby. People don't really cost out other hobbies the same way they do guitars. Cycling is crazy expensive, people spend custom guitar money on a graphics card every year or two, and then there's people buying the best phone every year.



Early twenties out of university.

I guess it's difficult for me since I have other obligations as well. I don't drink, smoke, or spend money on video games. But rent and daily functions all cost money. But you're right - I think I just had this notion that people are buying high end guitars left and right.


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Oct 14, 2021)

I used to have only 1 guitar and it took a few years to buy myself a backup.

Then I got an endorsement and also learned how to hunt down good deals on used or new but discontinued guitars.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 14, 2021)

mlp187 said:


> Hell yes!!! Scientists unite!



The only thing I can really remember is -ihbar(d/dx)


----------



## jahosy (Oct 14, 2021)

Married with two kids aged 9 & 12 (and 5 pets  ) with a decent family income. 

Started seriously buying used guitars about 10 years ago, went thru heaps but i find the good thing with buying used is you can sell them on will little or no lost if they're not to your taste. Took me about 5 years to finally know what i really like and focus on from there. 

Ordered 3 brand new, even though they're between $3k - $5k AUD, you don't pay them upfront. Try to work out a payment plan and start saving. 

Good luck!


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 14, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> I get the money on hand and then I buy on credit and collect the points, offers, gifts, etc. You never know when you might need miles or some extra bonus cash on Amazon. Plus, you just pay it off when the bill comes in.



I don't understand why people don't understand this concept. Use credit to earn rewards, and pay it off. Amex let me know the other day I have over 300,000 points just sitting there doing nothing that I forgot about.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Oct 14, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> I don't understand why people don't understand this concept. Use credit to earn rewards, and pay it off. Amex let me know the other day I have over 300,000 points just sitting there doing nothing that I forgot about.



Yea. I have one card I pay for everything with that has some good travel points as I travel a fair amount for work too. It's awesome.

I did one guitar on a sweetwater 0% promo but I ended up paying it off early.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Oct 14, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> My high school trombone was 4500 bucks and while it was a very nice instrument, its no where near high end....
> 
> We're spoiled in our community, as even high high end guitars don't even scratch the surface of my friends car habits. A few friends from high school have 20-30k in their 90's Honda's and Mitsubishi's.



I could sell all my guitars including my new 7s and still not have enough to buy a brand new alto sax.


----------



## Bodes (Oct 14, 2021)

How have I made it this far and not one of you have posted the below emoji? I am disappointed!

If you good, they pay well for it!


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 14, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I did one guitar on a sweetwater 0% promo but I ended up paying it off early.



Exactly. 0% APR is FREE MONEY PEOPLE. I will put a case of Monster Absolute Zero on 5 year 0% if 7-11 offers it!


----------



## Lozek (Oct 14, 2021)

I think I may be the polar opposite of most posters here, I lucked out on ridiculously good deals on both my ESP's (my Japanese Horizon in particular I got cheaper second hand than an entry level RG) and the tours they've done have contributed substantially towards funding a house purchase.

I'd love a custom if it fell into my hands, but it wouldn't make a significant difference.


----------



## RevDrucifer (Oct 14, 2021)

I'll be 39 this Saturday and only reached a financial state where I can buy the shit I want in the last couple of years. I never went to college and was "stuck" working in the restaurant business for years, barely making ends meet. I got sick of not having the money to buy the shit I wanted, so I spent a while figuring out how to make more money with what I had available to me. I never went to college and so many places require a college degree it took me out of the running for a lot of shit. I live in South Florida and the HVAC business is always big down here, so I decided to go to school for that. Scrimped and saved $5K so I could pay for it, got my certification and took the first entry level maintenance job I could find. Once I got the job, I busted my ass, a lot. It paid off, because a year and a half later, I was promoted to Chief Engineer and now I run the entire campus. It's been almost 3 years and I still can't believe that happened.

So really, the same way you achieve any goal; hard work and not letting determination slip. 

While I'm sure there are a few around here who might have access to their parent's bank accounts, I know others went to college and busted their asses so they could get into a career of their choice after. Very few have the option to not bust their ass, the majority has to do it.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 14, 2021)

RevDrucifer said:


> I'll be 39 this Saturday and only reached a financial state where I can buy the shit I want in the last couple of years. I never went to college and was "stuck" working in the restaurant business for years, barely making ends meet. I got sick of not having the money to buy the shit I wanted, so I spent a while figuring out how to make more money with what I had available to me. I never went to college and so many places require a college degree it took me out of the running for a lot of shit. I live in South Florida and the HVAC business is always big down here, so I decided to go to school for that. Scrimped and saved $5K so I could pay for it, got my certification and took the first entry level maintenance job I could find. Once I got the job, I busted my ass, a lot. It paid off, because a year and a half later, I was promoted to Chief Engineer and now I run the entire campus. It's been almost 3 years and I still can't believe that happened.
> 
> So really, the same way you achieve any goal; hard work and not letting determination slip.
> 
> While I'm sure there are a few around here who might have access to their parent's bank accounts, I know others went to college and busted their asses so they could get into a career of their choice after. Very few have the option to not bust their ass, the majority has to do it.



It makes me happy to see people who make it like this. Honestly. Congratulations - it's not easy.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Oct 14, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> Exactly. 0% APR is FREE MONEY PEOPLE. I will put a case of Monster Absolute Zero on 5 year 0% if 7-11 offers it!



Well yeah, but all it takes is some life altering moment to make you regret committing to a major purchase for x amount of years.

I'd take 0% APR offers seriously with the stipulation that you do indeed have the cash to outright buy whatever it is right then and there, then commit to it. But yeah offers like Sweetwater and other businesses offer are very flexible, I bought a Quad Cortex from Sweetwater on one of those plans and a new lens for my camera from B&H.

Back in the day it would just be BillMeLater on Paypal giving you 6 months to pay things off, but because it didn't require a monthly minimum I saw people close to me liberally use it as an open credit line with regret about it later.


----------



## 3bolt79 (Oct 14, 2021)

Well, I am 52 and I became disabled about 12 years ago. Forced retirement. I was a Respiratory Therapist (RRT). The medical conditions I have are so dire that there was no wait for me to start my Social Security payments. No fighting for years to get it.

I also don’t have a mortgage, car payment, or any bills other than the usual utilities, taxes, groceries. The wife and I eat out about once a month. I don’t go to bars, except to play on jam night. I will nurse one beer all night.

Because of the high paying nature of the job I had, I get more social security that the average recipient. I also have a pension. I was a Nurse/Therapist for 20 years.

It was looking like I was gonna die for awhile and I reprioritized my life. I only have 2 custom guitars and I have 25 guitars total. I also do some repair work on guitars for cash. Mostly set ups, fret and nut work.

I only have two more guitars on my guitar bucket list. I will buy them next year. My two customs are a Brian May Replica, and a hand made Classical guitar. Most of my other guitars are 1k or less.


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Oct 14, 2021)

3bolt79 said:


> Well, I am 52 and I became disabled about 12 years ago. Forced retirement. I was a Respiratory Therapist (RRT). The medical conditions I have are so dire that there was no wait for me to start my Social Security payments. No fighting for years to get it....



Oh geez dude. Hope you can stay healthy for as long as possible.


----------



## Kyle Jordan (Oct 14, 2021)

I average out a major purchase or two about every 9 years or so. Am currently in the midst of purchasing the most expensive guitar I’ve ever bought after buying an Axe FX III earlier this year with the help of my Biden Bucks. 

I do not make much money and that income stream is somewhat inconsistent, but my expenses otherwise are low and am a heavy DIYer for somethings. 

That combined with a long term dedicated gear fund allow me to pretty much jump on what I want whenever, so long as I have not completely raided the stash.


----------



## Black Mamba (Oct 14, 2021)

Sugar baby. Mommy just bought me two D’Pergos.


----------



## STRHelvete (Oct 14, 2021)

Gay men have lots of disposable income. Could I buy a custom? Yes. But I don't think I would...well..until I finalize all the specs I want


----------



## 3bolt79 (Oct 14, 2021)

The way I figure it I am going to enjoy what I can as I could die tomorrow. Which is true for any of us. I am bed bound a lot. But for the last month, things haven’t been so bad. Calm before the storm? Maybe. 

I have one friend that Iv’e played guitar with since the beginning of the pandemic. I gave her one of my Stratocasters as I didn’t think I was gonna be around, and might as well do her a favor. She is older than me by 20 years, and has very little disposable income.


----------



## MoJoToJo (Oct 15, 2021)

Lotto wins help.....That dude in California that won $700M can afford one or two customs. Probably a SSO member


----------



## IwantTacos (Oct 15, 2021)

Other than a few members here there aren't that many users getting a full custom every few months.

I have 22 guitars at this point and I think I only custom ordered 3 of them. Everything else was used.


----------



## laxu (Oct 15, 2021)

budda said:


> The amount of people who say they are very reluctant to spend money on themselves has surprised me.



Me too. All I got to say to them is


----------



## mastapimp (Oct 15, 2021)

I've been able to buy decent guitars throughout the last 15 years or so because I don't live beyond my means. I have about 25 guitars right now that range from cheap imports to a handful of high end customs. I'd say about half my guitars were purchased new and half used.

I'm in my late 30s and have a wife and 1 child. Both of us have decent paying jobs (I'm an engineer, she's a psychologist). We both went through undergrad on full academic scholarships and have no debt regarding that portion of education. She has about 130K of debt from her graduate programs, but is working for the state for 10 years to have the balance of the loans forgiven. We divert a huge chunk of her income into savings to reduce the amount of annual loan repayment in the meantime. Our combined income puts us in the "upper middle class" and our debt situation allows us to live comfortably in a nice community.

We keep a certain amount of money in our checking account and put the rest into savings and make sure we're on track for retirement with realistic goals. We set aside a certain amount every year for a decent vacation and other nice things (season tickets to sporting events, rare impulse purchases, etc...). If a guitar comes up and there's extra spending money, I don't have a problem pulling the trigger. Unless it's some huge expense like a mortgage or a car, we pay full and do not sign up for any kind of low interest financing. Right now, we're hiring a nanny and setting up FSA for childcare and expecting to deduct those expenses from our taxable income. 

Being responsible with your money is a good thing and will get you in the habit of saving in the future as well as set you up for better rates/deals. My credit's been over 800 for the last 10 years and my last 2 car purchases have had very low interest rates. I try to pay off my cars in 4 years with decent down-payments to reduce monthly bills, pay insurance in 6 month chunks to save money, etc...

In the big scheme of things, getting a nice shiny new guitar every year or so is great, but is chump change compared to other expenses. We got a new roof and gutters about 3 years back at 15K...hot tub was about 6K. We're looking at building a new deck right now and estimates are between 12-20K. New golf cart is on the list...probably gonna go used and still spend 5K. We spent about 60K just having a baby. When I tell my wife I want to drop 2K on a guitar, it's not that much in relation to other responsibilities. Of course, this is all relative to my current financial position in life...If I were back in college and making 15K a year at a part time job, I'd think dropping that much money on a guitar I didn't necessarily need would be irresponsible and foolish.


----------



## Demiurge (Oct 15, 2021)

Double income, no kids, college paid-off, bargain shopping- not unlike a lot of people. But this was a place arrived-at after a lot of lean years, saving, and tough decisions. It seems not terribly long ago that I had to sell everything save for a shit Alvarez acoustic and a Zoom POD knockoff.

It is, of course, plausible that there are more than a few people out there that buy lavish gear who are living beyond their means just to keep up with the Joneses.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand (Oct 15, 2021)

Like many others have already said in this thread, with low expenses and even a basic budget you don't need to make a ton of money to be able to sock away $1-2k per month that could be used to fund guitar related interests. 

I am firmly middle class, and pay a boat load in child support but am still able to shove $1500 per month into savings. A few months later and you could purchase a pretty high end guitar if you so desired. 

I think the fallacy is that when we see people with things that we may desire but can't afford, we assume it's because of some absurd amount of money that the other person possesses. The reality is that if you are clear about your financial priorities it is not hard to purchase the things that you want. I've purchased a number of very expensive guitars, but also don't spend $100 here and there on things like clothing and meals out. Choices.


----------



## sleewell (Oct 15, 2021)

one income, 4 kids. I have been buying diapers and wipes for 7 years now... can only imagine how many boutique guitars that would have been but I'd choose the kiddos every time. 

i manage to get by with production level guitars. expensive gear for me becomes less and less important as i get older and play more shows. the fun is making music with my band and seeing people get down to something i created.


----------



## dmlinger (Oct 15, 2021)

My wife and I are in our mid-30s. Two kids in elementary school. My wife is a teacher and I work in sales. 

For years, we did what all young professionals do which was scrape by paying bills when you have the least amount of money during your early career. Daycare, car payments, student loans, first mortgage/rent, etc. is crippling for people just starting out in their careers. One time about 8 years ago, I made a big sale and treated myself to a high end guitar ($2,500), but eventually sold it. I now make 10X what I made starting out and only have healthy debt (house) and still don't buy expensive guitars. 

The story behind what got me into building is I got a quote for a custom and nearly fainted at the cost. So I said "fuck that, I'll build one myself." Then I started buying tools from classifieds and doing research online. Eventually got a CNC (not an expensive one). Over the years, the tools I accumulated about equal the value of the guitar I was quoted ($3,500 roughly), but I've built 7 over the past 3 years and sold all but 1 that I kept for myself.


----------



## TedEH (Oct 15, 2021)

I hit a lot of the points that people have already brought up:

- Good software job (and it's in video games, which means stability during 'rona, which I'm thankful for)
- No kids
- Single
- Frugal (or cheap, if you'd rather)
- Buying a lot of things used
- I got lucky that my rent is stupidly cheap (because I haven't moved in almost 10 years, but now I can't move or it'll likely double on me)
- I have a car, but it's cheap, paid off, and I don't use it much (so not much gas expense)
- Rarely spend on eating out, etc. Treats are _treats_, not every day.
- Avoid debt as if it will literally kill you
- Don't spend money unless you actually have it (credit is not free money - use it for points, for online, etc, but don't spend it if you don't have it)
- Savings and other financial goals are an important part of the budget that come before things like music purchases
- You should be making a budget. If you aren't making a budget, get off the internet and go make a budget right now.

I'm in the middle ground where people will say they "don't feel rich", but I still make very good money compared to a lot of the people around me - and I live in the same circumstances I was in when I made half of this amount of money, which means I'm very well within my means. Living in your means allows you to save - for retirement, for gear, for emergencies, etc. To me, "living within your means" includes having budgeted for savings, budgeted for "I know I'm going to want to buy things that are just to make me happy", etc. 

If you're not hitting that benchmark, then in my eyes, you are exceeding your means - at which point, as people have already said, it comes down to priorities. There have been points in my life where things could have gone very different ways - I could have had kids, I could move into a much nicer apartment, I could drive a fancy car, etc - but everything is a trade-off. I'm well off enough to be able to make those kinds of choices, but not rich enough for those choices to not matter in the long run.


----------



## mastapimp (Oct 15, 2021)

Forgot to mention that it also helps residing in a medium-sized city in Florida where the cost of living is relatively cheap compared to some other places. Several of my friends that went out to the west coast and work in LA or for Apple make bank but will never be able to afford a home. A coworker of mine was explaining when he was living in Boston that his standards for what was considered a dump went way down based on the expensive housing markets in the area. One of my former interns took a job in San Fran about 3 years ago and his single parking space for his apartment (shared with 3 other guys) was over $1000/month.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 15, 2021)

TedEH said:


> (credit is not free money - use it for points, for online, etc, but don't spend it if you don't have it)



Yes, don't spend it if you don't have it, but a distinction to make for 0% financing is it is "free money" in the sense that it doesn't _cost_ anything to borrow it. Free to borrow.


----------



## TedEH (Oct 15, 2021)

I can appreciate the free to borrow thing - but the flip side is that borrowing in itself I see as something to be avoided. It's like a free punch to face. It cost me nothing, but I still don't want it.

The principle remains that you shouldn't spend money that you can't cover. And by cover, I mean pay off immediately. Credit isn't money in the bank. Overdraft is not money in the bank. There are valid uses for all of this stuff, but they're tools, not free money.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 15, 2021)

TedEH said:


> I can appreciate the free to borrow thing - but the flip side is that borrowing in itself I see as something to be avoided. It's like a free punch to face. It cost me nothing, but I still don't want it.
> 
> The principle remains that you shouldn't spend money that you can't cover. And by cover, I mean pay off immediately. Credit isn't money in the bank. Overdraft is not money in the bank. There are valid uses for all of this stuff, but they're tools, not free money.



Sometimes it just makes more sense to borrow period. My CPA has literally told me on numerous occasions it is better to borrow than spend my cash (especially sub 5%), and to actually hold on to as much cash as possible, floating "healthy debt". Another banker guy of mine made a good point too: There are no bad bank products, just _misplaced_ products. A 3/1 or 5/1 ARM may make sense for a professional, say, an orthopedic surgeon that may only be on a two- or three-year rotation in a city, that doesn't care about the equity in the home or keeping it long-term. It would be a bad idea for a starter couple that plans to stay there for 15-plus years.

To be completely debt averse will only provide you with a lower glass ceiling.

Here's one more example: I know a guy who had about 3 million in principle in the bank. He bought a home for around 500K. He took a no term loan at let's say 3.5%, leaving the 3 million to continue earning 10%. So instead of reducing his principal 500k, he's still earning 10% on 2.5 million and 6.5% on 500k. He could have easily just paid cash for the house.


----------



## ElysianGuitars (Oct 15, 2021)

I became the custom shop


----------



## TedEH (Oct 15, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> My CPA has literally told me on numerous occasions it is better to borrow than spend my cash (especially sub 5%)





jaxadam said:


> Here's one more example: I know a guy who had about 3 million in principle in the bank.


I think you missed my point. If you have 3 million in the bank, you can cover your credit, and probably don't need financial advice from someone like me. If you have $0 in the bank, don't use credit if you can avoid it. Simple as that.

I use credit - I certainly borrow money, technically - but I'm not borrowing anything that I don't have the money for. Obviously, there are exceptions - like a mortgage or car loan or something, but even then, the faster something like a car is paid off, the better. The point isn't to say "credit cards are evil", the point is to say "don't spend $2000 on a guitar on a credit card when you have < $2000 in your bank account". Edit: or have absolute confidence you _will_ have it shortly, but that's a stretch IMO.

Visa is not Yolo money when you're broke. It sounds obvious, but to some people it's not.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 15, 2021)

TedEH said:


> I think you missed my point.



I definitely missed your new point, because your old point was:



TedEH said:


> Avoid debt as if it will literally kill you





TedEH said:


> borrowing in itself I see as something to be avoided.


----------



## AltecGreen (Oct 15, 2021)

bostjan said:


> I'm a physicist. I work in R&D, but, at the time I did most of my big purchases, I was a professional musician and concurrently an adjunct college professor.
> 
> I have three full customs from well-respected luthiers and a couple from smaller luthiers. The first one cost me under $3k. The small shop ones cost me under $1.5k each. The other two were a major life decision based on a special circumstance at the time that I prefer not to get into.


I'm a physicist too.


----------



## jephjacques (Oct 15, 2021)

Good job, no kids, all I spend money on is guitars.


----------



## Drew (Oct 15, 2021)

evade said:


> I'm curious if it's bad financial decisions, impulse purchases, or you're just straight loaded. And if you are able to make these decisions, you needed to some extent, the initial capital so I'm curious what the story behind your purchases are. I'd like to hear them even if you were saving for years and were finally able to afford one, etc.


I make pretty good money as a fixed income analyst for an investment firm, and I'm old enough that while I have a pretty solid collection, it's one I've built up over more than 20 years. 

The downside of course is I work a lot, was practicing in 15-minute study breaks serven or eight years back while studying for the CFA, and had a LOT more time to practice back in college when I owned a USA Strat I saved up forever to afford and then a 7620 I got on closeout from money I saved working over the summer. Back then I could play all day if I wanted to. Now, I may play a Suhr into a Mark-V half stack, but it's rare I get in more than an hour a day, and even that's hardly a guarantee. 

I'd happily go back to playing my Strat through a small Mesa combo all day if I could.


----------



## jjcor (Oct 15, 2021)

Married, both with good paying jobs. I also invested in real estate on the side which helped.


----------



## TedEH (Oct 15, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> because your old point was


It's a pedantic difference. I don't think of "borrowing money for convenience or for some financial benefit when you have the funds to cover it" as being in debt. You are not, in that situation, overall, in debt. You're still in the positive. Avoid being in the negative. Owing more money than you have is, generally speaking, bad. Avoiding debt is _good advice_ for someone who struggles to save for the things they want like guitars, and doesn't apply to people with $3mill in the bank. I'm officially done with arguing this one just for arguments sake, the back and forth adds nothing.


----------



## Darkscience (Oct 15, 2021)

It is a bit of a silly question to be honest. I do not wonder how my neighbor came up with the money to buy his project car, or wonder how my friend paid for his new tricked out AR-15 or whatever. Do not wonder how the people on the lake paid for their boats. Its just a matter of saving for a while and not buying other things like boats. You could work Wal-Mart and afford a custom guitar if that was your goal. It is all about planning. Your situation for example, you bought a 1k guitar, well if you bought a $300 guitar then in 2 years maybe you can spend 2k, or wait 3 years and spend 3k. Etc.


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 15, 2021)

What i think OP is forgetting is the amount of people who keep buying guitars and flipping them, posting NGD's all the time, making it look like they have all this gear, but in reality the one they posted a few weeks ago is gone, and has funded said new gear.


----------



## vejichan (Oct 15, 2021)

one realization for me after I received my 1st custom guitar that I worked my ass off and sacrificed so much for is that.. sure it looked and played better but in terms of tone, was about the same.. I still sounded like crap but a side positive effect to all this was that during the waiting/saving time. 
-I stayed focused and worked hard and saved money
-Helped me in dealing with life stress and worries, because it gave me something to look forward to.
-Made me wake up and go home to my family with a huge smile on my face

So you could say the excitement and enjoyment from the time you order the custom guitar to when you receive it is was more satisfying to me than when I actual receive it? Thats why i tell the builder and dealer to take their time building my guitar. I am in no rush. The longer the better. 
Kinda crazy but once you receive it and get over the honeymoon stage of how magnificent it looks, that's about it. Conclusion: I still sounds like shit because I suck at guitar and no custom guitar will magically make me sound better. So if you are getting a custom guitar because you want a good looking/playing guitar or like me to be happy, go for it!... if you want to sound or play better, you should save your money and just practice.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 15, 2021)

TedEH said:


> It's a pedantic difference. I don't think of "borrowing money for convenience or for some financial benefit when you have the funds to cover it" as being in debt. You are not, in that situation, overall, in debt. You're still in the positive. Avoid being in the negative. Owing more money than you have is, generally speaking, bad. Avoiding debt is _good advice_ for someone who struggles to save for the things they want like guitars, and doesn't apply to people with $3mill in the bank. I'm officially done with arguing this one just for arguments sake, the back and forth adds nothing.



Who's arguing? You're the one accusing me of missing your point. I'm just letting those following along at home know that they don't have to wait until they have 200k, 300k, or 800k saved up before they get a mortgage, 50k saved up before they get a car loan, or 2 million saved up before they get a business loan so that they're, as you say, still in the positive.

We get it, you'd rather have no debt and be cash poor, but there are some nuances that you're missing.


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Oct 15, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> Who's arguing? You're the one accusing me of missing your point. I'm just letting those following along at home know that they don't have to wait until they have 200k, 300k, or 800k saved up before they get a mortgage, 50k saved up before they get a car loan, or 2 million saved up before they get a business loan so that they're, as you say, still in the positive.
> 
> We get it, you'd rather have no debt and be cash poor, but there are some nuances that you're missing.



I get what you're saying. For instance I don't pay off my car loan which is 2.69% APR because I can beat that on the open market, frees up my cash for investing where as long as I beat that 2.69%, it makes sense for me to let my car loan ride.


----------



## michael_bolton (Oct 15, 2021)

in the grand schema of things guitars are not that expensive of a hobby. not dirt cheap ofc, but I know ppl who (while not loaded) have spent thousands on espresso machines, guns, ice fishing cameras etc etc.

then there are ppl who are into harleys lol - which I know a few - mostly blue collar type gents with decent but not insanely well paid jobs - like electricians, super intendants at large apartment complexes, skilled construction dudes etc.

one of them harleys, entry level and used costs more than all of my guitar equipment put together.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 15, 2021)

Jeffrey Bain said:


> I get what you're saying. For instance I don't pay off my car loan which is 2.69% APR because I can beat that on the open market, frees up my cash for investing where as long as I beat that 2.69%, it makes sense for me to let my car loan ride.



Pretty much. It's not your debt per se, but the _spread_ of the earning rate of capital vs the payed rate of the debt. So that's right, if your cash is earning more than 2.69%, keep the loan and don't throw good money at bad money. There's also the present value vs future value, but we won't get into that right now or @TedEH head will explode.


----------



## IwantTacos (Oct 15, 2021)

jephjacques said:


> Good job, no kids, all I spend money on is guitars.



this man has the best job.


----------



## SnowfaLL (Oct 15, 2021)

It's funny, when I started posting here I was a 16 year old teenager with the $300 ibanez RG's and really thought customs were so out of my reach, I'd never get something good. Now, I'm 33 and have had the same job for 10 years (pretty decent one too, although nowhere near most people here in salary I bet) - and I own like 7 guitars over $2000 each now haha. I did a lot of buying/selling/trading for years, slowly moving my way up from those $300 guitars to $500 in trades/etc, then $700, etc. On top of that, I did not spend money on many things other people do, like alcohol, weed, movies, etc. I haven't had a car for years either, since I live in a good city with transportation, and I stupidly didn't buy a house before the market went insane. Not saying that is for everyone, and if I had a kid, life would be much more expensive - but I tried to live with the 30% rent rule - no more than 30% of my income towards rent. This meant the crappiest cheap apartments for a few years, then it slowly became better, to now with my gf we afford a decent apartment downtown of a major Canadian city. I tell myself I will only buy one "nice" custom guitar per year, that gives me a 12 month period to pool together enough to afford that $4000ish guitar. I don't impulse buy anymore, I actually spent 8 months for my last custom before ordering, to make sure I really wanted it before I spent that ~$3000. I want a new Aristides now, but I'm giving myself until xmas (been thinking since July on it) before I actually do it, not only to save money but to make sure I REALLY want it.

All that to say, the more you grow older and if you are smart with your money, even with a job thats only average paying, if you don't fall into the impulse buy traps, you can buy a nice one over the period of a year or two.


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 15, 2021)

Making money just by having money is gross.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 15, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> Making money just by having money is gross.



My interest earns interest!


----------



## TedEH (Oct 15, 2021)

You're twisting around what I said into a point I was never trying to make - and for what - to win some internet points?

Someone who isn't in a good financial position shouldn't treat credit as free money, and I stand by that. As in _if you have $0, but an unused credit limit of $1000 - you still can't afford a guitar._


----------



## SnowfaLL (Oct 15, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> Who's arguing? You're the one accusing me of missing your point. I'm just letting those following along at home know that they don't have to wait until they have 200k, 300k, or 800k saved up before they get a mortgage, 50k saved up before they get a car loan, or 2 million saved up before they get a business loan so that they're, as you say, still in the positive.
> 
> We get it, you'd rather have no debt and be cash poor, but there are some nuances that you're missing.



Yea, that's something I wish I thought more about when I was still in my mid 20s.. I was so fixated on just being "debt free" above all else, I missed out on some opportunities that I should have taken, like buying a house before the market became insane. I could afford the payments, and my salary was pretty set then.. I just had this fear of being "negative" in my account. A house I could have bought in 2017 for $200k would be ~$500k in the city I lived in now. Of course, my job moves around alot and other circumstances also played a part in my decision, but still. My ETF's are doing well and all, almost reaching a good milestone soon, but a house would have been a better choice. I used to plan that I would try to buy a house outright in cash when I had $200k saved up - now I see how ridiculous of a statement that is, but that was my mindset a few years ago.


----------



## michael_bolton (Oct 15, 2021)

there's defo a notion of a "good debt" vs "bad debt". 

owning a house on good terms (as in something you don't spend more than 1/3 of your paycheck on, no surprises like var rates, you have money in the bank to cover at least 6 months of payments etc) is probably as "good" as the debt can get so to speak.


----------



## Andromalia (Oct 15, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Or, say, instead of a guitar, you want to get some nifty downhill skis and take that up as a hobby. The average cost of a broken leg is $35k, not counting lost wages, finance fees, or a myriad of other nickel-and-dime fees.



I was gotta say my social status is this and that, and my income is this and that. And then I just realised that in my lidfespan, social security saved me enough for 50 guitars given the amount of stuff I broke when I was young (er...) if I go by your rates. 



> but a house would have been a better choice


Hindsight is always 100% correct. I have stayed debt free all my life and only got my first home at 48. But, at 48, I'm done with all the big life purchases and still credit free.


----------



## TedEH (Oct 15, 2021)

I understand that there is, and can be, good debt. I similarly wish I'd have been in a position where I could have bought a house before prices got stupid, but by the time I managed to get things in enough order for that to be an option, prices had escalated more than my salary did soooooooo... got kinda boned in that regard.

And yeah, I'm not a financial expert by any stretch, so I can't speak much to details of how loans work. But if we're starting from a place of "how do people even afford guitars?" I'm assuming we're talking financial basics here. Something like buying a house is not comparable to something like living month-to-month on how much overdraft you can get away with, which is the kind of scenario I was trying to get at. And I bring that angle up because some people _do_ live that way - and need to be reminded that just because you can stretch a couple extra dollars to get what you want, it doesn't mean you should.

Arguably, something like a mortgage doesn't really "put you in the negative" in the same sense either, because you still _have_ the value of the house. The argument I always hear is that if you're going to pay out money to live somewhere anyway, all other things being equal, you might as well throw that money at something where you retain some of that value. Not the most nuanced take in the world, but it seems intuitive enough.


----------



## bostjan (Oct 15, 2021)

Andromalia said:


> I was gotta say my social status is this and that, and my income is this and that. And then I just realised that in my lidfespan, social security saved me enough for 50 guitars given the amount of stuff I broke when I was young (er...) if I go by your rates.
> 
> 
> Hindsight is always 100% correct. I have stayed debt free all my life and only got my first home at 48. But, at 48, I'm done with all the big life purchases and still credit free.



Yeah, but you live in France, Non? So your health care costs are much lower than someone in the USA.


----------



## Darkscience (Oct 15, 2021)

Sorry I feel the need to throw this out there since this thread took that turn. Lets not take financial advice from anyone on this forum ok? Probably a bad move, IDC if what they say is right or wrong, you are not qualified to know and they are not qualified to give it. That being said my 2 cents lives with the debt free camp ok? Sure don't pay off your car, go play with the 'FREE' money and watch it go bye bye when you make a bad decision with it, (in hole x2 now). Please don't come at me with your investments are full proof? LMAO, we would all be RICH if that was possible.


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Oct 15, 2021)

Darkscience said:


> Sorry I feel the need to throw this out there since this thread took that turn. Lets not take financial advice from anyone on this forum ok? Probably a bad move, IDC if what they say is right or wrong, you are not qualified to know and they are not qualified to give it. That being said my 2 cents lives with the debt free camp ok? Sure don't pay off your car, go play with the 'FREE' money and watch it go bye bye when you make a bad decision with it, (in hole x2 now). Please don't come at me with your investments are full proof? LMAO, we would all be RICH if that was possible.


LMAO just because you lost your ass in the market doesn't mean everyone will.

I am not a financial advisor and this is not financial advice


----------



## laxu (Oct 15, 2021)

dmlinger said:


> The story behind what got me into building is I got a quote for a custom and nearly fainted at the cost. So I said "fuck that, I'll build one myself." Then I started buying tools from classifieds and doing research online. Eventually got a CNC (not an expensive one). Over the years, the tools I accumulated about equal the value of the guitar I was quoted ($3,500 roughly), but I've built 7 over the past 3 years and sold all but 1 that I kept for myself.



That is of course without putting value for your time and the quality of your guitars being only as good as you are. I'm planning to build a guitar for myself just to try it out but it quickly gets expensive if you want to use high quality parts, the tools cost money and so on.


----------



## Andromalia (Oct 15, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Yeah, but you live in France, Non? So your health care costs are much lower than someone in the USA.


Yeah, it's difficult to do a straight comparison with the USA because not all factors go the same way. (our health insurance is WAAAY cheaper, but our cars are more expensive, food is more expensive but less shitty, etc)

I think it's still better to live in France if you're not upper middle class or higher, even though housing in cities is becoming an absurdity now.
If I break a leg, it will cost me nothing in hospital fees, I'll get 65% of my salary (or 100 if accident is work related) and a decent added coverage costs me 80€/month. (Because Frech social security, although awesome, has really bad coverage for glasses and teeth, which are considered non life threatening, so you need an additional insurance to get 100% refunds. I joined the megane club three years ago)


----------



## Darkscience (Oct 15, 2021)

Jeffrey Bain said:


> LMAO just because you lost your ass in the market doesn't mean everyone will.
> 
> I am not a financial advisor and this is not financial advice



I like the disclaimer. Who said I lost my ass? Here are my points incase they did not come through correctly.
1. It is better to be debt free than not. (Come at me)
2. It is not wise to take financial advise from a guitar gear forum about 7 strings. (Come at me)
3. There is always risk when investing. (Come at me)
That is it, all I said.


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Oct 15, 2021)

Darkscience said:


> I like the disclaimer. Who said I lost my ass? Here are my points incase they did not come through correctly.
> 1. It is better to be debt free than not. (Come at me)
> 2. It is not wise to take financial advise from a guitar gear forum about 7 strings. (Come at me)
> That is it, all I said.


Felt like the "sure don't pay your car off thing" was directed toward me and then you went on to assume that I would watch my money go bye bye when I make a bad decision. I manage my risk well and only invest into the market what I can afford to lose.

Sounds like you maybe don't possess those traits, considering your self proclaimed track record with investing. Hoping your lesson x2 was enough for you to re-think your strategy.

I, however, agree with your two points above, just adding to the general conversation 

EDIT: you edited your post while I was responding but I think my points still stand.


----------



## TedEH (Oct 15, 2021)

I'll apologize for my part in the derailing. On some level, on principle, yeah, it's a bad idea to take financial advice from a guitar forum. At the same time - there's some smart people on here we could all learn from soooooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 15, 2021)

Darkscience said:


> I like the disclaimer. Who said I lost my ass? Here are my points incase they did not come through correctly.
> 1. It is better to be debt free than not. (Come at me)
> 2. It is not wise to take financial advise from a guitar gear forum about 7 strings. (Come at me)
> That is it, all I said.



I would like to, as you said, use your 2nd point for your 1st!



TedEH said:


> As in _if you have $0, but an unused credit limit of $1000 - you still can't afford a guitar._



I agree with this. This is a very basic understanding of credit and debt. But it gets a lot more complicated than that, and initially I also wanted to add to the point, and took my time to give some examples to expound upon the point. I'm sorry if my responses to literal quotes from you has offended you, and that you feel the need to accuse me of accusing you of something I never did, while throwing out the whole "internet points" thing. But to each his own, I wish you the best of luck in your debt-free crusade.


----------



## AwakenTheSkies (Oct 15, 2021)

I don't have any super expensive guitars. All of mine are like 750€ + modifications. But as much as I love guitar & recording I don't think I could ever spend 2-4k in a custom or whatever. There's just no point for me I think? The problem with super cheap guitars in my experience is that they have problems with neck, frets and bridge which might not allow you to play as fast if that's what you're into, you might have tuning problems and the pickups might not be so good. But there's plenty sub 1k guitars that are free of those problems. If I were in a touring band that's even worse, how could I bring a 2k guitar on tour? If something was to happen to it I would be so fucked...

Then again I couldn't afford a super expensive guitar anyway and I work a seasonal job. Also I have just spent an nice amount on a new desktop PC, GPU prices are pretty crazy now, but I've been looking forward to this for years..


----------



## Darkscience (Oct 15, 2021)

Jeffrey Bain said:


> Felt like the "sure don't pay your car off thing" was directed toward me and then you went on to assume that I would watch my money go bye bye when I make a bad decision. I manage my risk well and only invest into the market what I can afford to lose.
> 
> Sounds like you maybe don't possess those traits, considering your self proclaimed track record with investing. Hoping your lesson x2 was enough for you to re-think your strategy.
> 
> ...



I used what you said as an example of the type of advice to be cautious about. There how about I leave it at cautious vs don't take the advice completely. I also had no idea you were the guy who posted about that, I was not trying to single you out. Lastly you are still putting words in my mouth about investments, what track record are you talking about? I have posted 0 about my own situation, (I am doing more than just fine). I am not comparing myself to you, if you are rich because of investments good for you, again I was not saying YOUR money would go bye bye. My fault for not just saying a bulleted statement like I did above. My intention was to say Investments come with risk.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand (Oct 15, 2021)

I mean, if we really want to light this all on fire, let's get nuanced with it and start to fight over debt to credit ratios, the value of low yield investments over equity in real estate, and car depreciation!! Dem's fightin words!


----------



## Darkscience (Oct 15, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> I would like to, as you said, use your 2nd point for your 1st!
> 
> Good, that point goes for me too. But we can still talk.
> 
> I agree with this. This is a very basic understanding of credit and debt. But it gets a lot more complicated than that, and initially I also wanted to add to the point, and took my time to give some examples to expound upon the point. I'm sorry if my responses to literal quotes from you has offended you, and that you feel the need to accuse me of accusing you of something I never did, while throwing out the whole "internet points" thing. But to each his own, I wish you the best of luck in your debt-free crusade.



I was not considering what I said to be advice but more of a fact. But apparently having debt can be better then not somehow, so I will stop.

This is not a debt free crusade, but yea it is my opinion that someone buying guitar gear that it is better to buy it cash.


----------



## Darkscience (Oct 15, 2021)

TheInvisibleHand said:


> I mean, if we really want to light this all on fire, let's get nuanced with it and start to fight over debt to credit ratios, the value of low yield investments over equity in real estate, and car depreciation!! Dem's fightin words!



LMAO I always like to you see pop in dude. You are like my ENGL brother. BTW the amp is sounding so good, I got my guitar and amp really dialed in for the room I play in.


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Oct 15, 2021)

Darkscience said:


> I used what you said as an example of the type of advice to be cautious about. There how about I leave it at cautious vs don't take the advice completely. I also had no idea you were the guy who posted about that, I was not trying to single you out. Lastly you are still putting words in my mouth about investments, what track record are you talking about? I have posted 0 about my own situation, (I am doing more than just fine). I am not comparing myself to you, if you are rich because of investments good for you, again I was not saying YOUR money would go bye bye. My fault for not just saying a bulleted statement like I did above. My intention was to say Investments come with risk.



Love you man no hard feelings <3


----------



## broangiel (Oct 15, 2021)

Married. No kids. Manageable debt - mortgage and one car between the two of us. 

First of all, we max out 401k, HSA, and 529 accounts. (For the 529, we only max the tax-deductible part.) We also contribute to taxable funds. Once the emergency fund was stocked and after bills are paid, everything else is gravy.

I buy all my equipment used, with the exception of my two Mojotone cabs. Prices are a bit crazy right now for guitars, but I've still found some good amp deals. I'm eager to see how guitars prices shift in the future. I bought my EBMM guitars for as low as $900 and as high as $1500. Those prices are getting hard to find.


----------



## NeglectedField (Oct 15, 2021)

Most I've spent on a guitar outright so far in my life is £800, and that was ex-demo. I did add £300 BKPs to it later but they were saved for separately. I think that came about by a mixture of saving birthday money, work bonus, some general savings and may be some disposable income floating around that month. Was still the upper end of my budget. In fact I think I stretched a little further for it. 

I'm totally rationalising here, but I do wonder if I'd be much happier about my guitar-playing life if money were no object. When I've been to guitar shows and tried everything up to custom shop tier stuff, eventually I'll realise a guitar is a guitar and I only 'need' as much variety of, and as good quality of guitar, as make sufficient tools for inspiration and expression as a musician. The more guitars I have, the more will sit around unplayed, unloved. I'm just trying to enjoy this kinda sweet spot where I've accumulated a medium sized, varied arsenal of stringed instruments, plus some good amplification, effects and software, which allow me plenty of room to express myself. If I chance upon (or really bone up in life to acquire) more money, that's just a bonus.


----------



## Kaura (Oct 15, 2021)

Gambling. 

But yeah, I wonder how all these youtube clowns buy new four-figure guitars every week *cough Stay Metal Ray/Ola/(that one douchebag casually spending million on a guitar) *cough*. I mean the ad-revenue can't be that good.. Can it?


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Oct 15, 2021)

Kaura said:


> Gambling.
> 
> But yeah, I wonder how all these youtube clowns buy new four-figure guitars every week *cough Stay Metal Ray/Ola/(that one douchebag casually spending million on a guitar) *cough*. I mean the ad-revenue can't be that good.. Can it?


You'd be surprised at what some of those cats pull in. Also, they likely get a lot of it on steep discount. Not sure how Ray does it though, he's got a pretty low average video views.


----------



## STRHelvete (Oct 15, 2021)

The big issue for me is, a custom guitar makes no sense. I'd never gig with it because why in the fuck would I subject a 5 thousand dollar guitar to damage and possible theft? It'd stay at home but then what's the point? The whole custom aspect is for show, and since I have guitars for recording there's no logical reason to have one.

Now if I was in a big band and had an endorsement and all that shit then sure, I'd have guitars to burn through but as it stands I'm not spending that kinda money on a guitar when an 800 dollar or less guitar does everything I need and still looks nice


----------



## NeglectedField (Oct 15, 2021)

STRHelvete said:


> The big issue for me is, a custom guitar makes no sense. I'd never gig with it because why in the fuck would I subject a 5 thousand dollar guitar to damage and possible theft? It'd stay at home but then what's the point? The whole custom aspect is for show, and since I have guitars for recording there's no logical reason to have one.
> 
> Now if I was in a big band and had an endorsement and all that shit then sure, I'd have guitars to burn through but as it stands I'm not spending that kinda money on a guitar when an 800 dollar or less guitar does everything I need and still looks nice



I very much agree. Guitars for me should be functional and (within reason) be alright picking up a few battle scars.


----------



## budda (Oct 15, 2021)

STRHelvete said:


> The big issue for me is, a custom guitar makes no sense. I'd never gig with it because why in the fuck would I subject a 5 thousand dollar guitar to damage and possible theft? It'd stay at home but then what's the point? The whole custom aspect is for show, and since I have guitars for recording there's no logical reason to have one.
> 
> Now if I was in a big band and had an endorsement and all that shit then sure, I'd have guitars to burn through but as it stands I'm not spending that kinda money on a guitar when an 800 dollar or less guitar does everything I need and still looks nice



Took my custom on tour for a year or two as a backup. Was more worried about theft than damage.


----------



## Kaura (Oct 15, 2021)

Jeffrey Bain said:


> You'd be surprised at what some of those cats pull in. Also, they likely get a lot of it on steep discount. Not sure how Ray does it though, he's got a pretty low average video views.



Yeah, to be honest, I know they pull big money and probably sell some of the guitars they show on their channels but it still seems wrong, somehow. I mean, I guess I'm just being jealous.


----------



## STRHelvete (Oct 15, 2021)

budda said:


> Took my custom on tour for a year or two as a backup. Was more worried about theft than damage.


I bought that ML I just got for the sole purpose of live gigs. My Modifiers are too rare to take out, but the ML is current production so I can always just order another. I plan on getting another as a backup so my Modifiers can stay home. 
That's why I couldn't have a custom.


----------



## budda (Oct 15, 2021)

STRHelvete said:


> I bought that ML I just got for the sole purpose of live gigs. My Modifiers are too rare to take out, but the ML is current production so I can always just order another. I plan on getting another as a backup so my Modifiers can stay home.
> That's why I couldn't have a custom.



Custom as main and ML as backup. Done.


----------



## STRHelvete (Oct 15, 2021)

budda said:


> Custom as main and ML as backup. Done.


I'm happy with a used ML. A custom looks nice but I'm not the kind of person to drop that kind of cash on something that unimportant. 

Maybe someday I'll do it just to say I did but it not practical for me at all


----------



## budda (Oct 15, 2021)

STRHelvete said:


> I'm happy with a used ML. A custom looks nice but I'm not the kind of person to drop that kind of cash on something that unimportant.
> 
> Maybe someday I'll do it just to say I did but it not practical for me at all



Customs generally arent practical


----------



## Adieu (Oct 16, 2021)

Uhm

...banks don't pay 10%.



jaxadam said:


> Sometimes it just makes more sense to borrow period. My CPA has literally told me on numerous occasions it is better to borrow than spend my cash (especially sub 5%), and to actually hold on to as much cash as possible, floating "healthy debt". Another banker guy of mine made a good point too: There are no bad bank products, just _misplaced_ products. A 3/1 or 5/1 ARM may make sense for a professional, say, an orthopedic surgeon that may only be on a two- or three-year rotation in a city, that doesn't care about the equity in the home or keeping it long-term. It would be a bad idea for a starter couple that plans to stay there for 15-plus years.
> 
> To be completely debt averse will only provide you with a lower glass ceiling.
> 
> Here's one more example: I know a guy who had about 3 million in principle in the bank. He bought a home for around 500K. He took a no term loan at let's say 3.5%, leaving the 3 million to continue earning 10%. So instead of reducing his principal 500k, he's still earning 10% on 2.5 million and 6.5% on 500k. He could have easily just paid cash for the house.


----------



## wannabguitarist (Oct 16, 2021)

narad said:


> As you say, some people have 3 custom shops ($12-15k) in guitars. Which is a below average car that many families have 2 of. Which is a penny in the cost of a several hundred thousand dollar house, which many regular (read: non-loaded) people have. So the question of how someone could afford $15k to spend on a hobby doesn't seem very interesting. It's always struck me as a matter of priorities than means.



This. I always tell myself I can't afford a Music Man or PRS but I have a private stock of modifications on my weekend car . Plenty of middle class families have spare cars, motorcycles, ATVs, etc. For some reason a $5k guitar is frivolous but a two dirtbikes and a trailer isn't.


----------



## KentBrockman (Oct 16, 2021)

I'm an bridge engineer and I don't have kids. That doesn't mean I go nuts with gear - I got that urge out of the way earlier this year (see sig) and have little desire to buy more. Hopefully I can say a year from now...

I met someone at GC today and they told me that they're having a custom instrument built for $10k. The average GC salary is apparently $45k. They've probably been saving up a _really_ long time and/or they must have much lower living expenses than me (e.g. I have no roommates so I pay all the rent, they might share an apartment with someone)


----------



## Hollowway (Oct 16, 2021)

It’s a good question. But I think it’s about 
1) Priorities. On this site we tend to spend our discretionary income on guitars, as opposed to cars, fancy art work, horses, traveling, etc.
2) not owning a guitar forever. A lot of people have oodles of NGDs, but 3 years later they have a completely different collection. The joy for them is the novelty of it.
3) building up a tolerance for expensive guilds. When I first started getting guitars I would break a sweat at $800. But I just dropped $3,000 on an Aristides, and I only have semi-crippling guilt, lol.
4) getting older. A number of us have been buying customs for a decade. We ain’t no spring chickens anymore, so we’ve got a handle on finances just based on sheer age and time in the workforce.
5) being in an echo chamber. Because we all spend so much time talking about guitars, when we see a Jem 77FP pop up for $2800 we feel like we HAVE to buy it, because it’s a good deal, comparatively speaking. And, when everyone starts getting PME FB customs, well, I need one too!
6) Psychological addiction. There isn’t much that will dump dopamine into your synapses like opening the case of a guitar that UPS just dropped off. (And I choose my words carefully there, because if it was shipped by FedEx, it hasn’t been dropped off, and is still in “pending” status, and the customer service agent doesn’t know shit about fuck. Dammit.) As adults, we don’t get that Christmas morning feeling anymore, but damn, the NGD is just as good a feeling as anything I ever felt on 12/25.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR (Oct 16, 2021)

I'm maintenance for a posh property management company that pays pretty well, house paid off, no kids, been out of debt for almost 10 years. Can pretty much buy what I want within reason. But still don't worry about dropping several thousand on a custom. 

For one I tend to ding up my guitars and doing that to a $3k+ custom would hurt my feelings. I'm just an alright guitar player, and I have way more than I need already and I'm pretty satisfied with the gear I have now. Can't really justify continuing to drop cash on more guitars and amps.

I'm also really wanting to start traveling, I get a ton of PTO at work, and will be spending money doing that going forward.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Oct 16, 2021)

Most people in this thread


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 16, 2021)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Most people in this thread


While I get the joke, 30 bucks is too much for a shirt. It just is lol.


----------



## dmlinger (Oct 16, 2021)

laxu said:


> That is of course without putting value for your time and the quality of your guitars being only as good as you are. I'm planning to build a guitar for myself just to try it out but it quickly gets expensive if you want to use high quality parts, the tools cost money and so on.



Definitely. At this point it is a passion project, so I don't ever account for my time.


----------



## Andromalia (Oct 16, 2021)

STRHelvete said:


> The big issue for me is, a custom guitar makes no sense.


You dismissed the visuals. I had a custom guitar made not so much for its specs, which are mundane enough, but because nobody was going to sell what I wanted ever in a production run. A big part of the Daemoness appeal is that the builder is also a decent artist who can draw stuff for you.



> While I get the joke, 30 bucks is too much for a shirt. It just is lol.



I pay 40 for Lacoste polos, 50 to 60 for dress shirts when I need to wear a suit. Quality of fabric matters for comfort.


----------



## that short guy (Oct 16, 2021)

I'm in the military, so I'm definitely not rich

I tend to not really spend money on things that aren't food, fuel, or bills too often, and I live well below my means so I normally have a fair amount savings that every now and then I'll use a little of for a guitar.


----------



## AMOS (Oct 16, 2021)

No kids and I'm single, and have a paid for vehicle


----------



## Jake (Oct 16, 2021)

Decent paying job, car paid off, split bills with GF for house. Buy mostly used. The only true custom that I have in my collection at this point is my Mayones and it was by far the most expensive guitar I've ever purchased and probably will ever purchase. But even with that I had well over a year waiting for it to be built to allocate money towards it. It was over $5k but didn't cripple me financially because I was able to plan which I think is huge for a lot of these things.


----------



## SnowfaLL (Oct 16, 2021)

AwakenTheSkies said:


> I don't have any super expensive guitars. All of mine are like 750€ + modifications. But as much as I love guitar & recording I don't think I could ever spend 2-4k in a custom or whatever. There's just no point for me I think? The problem with super cheap guitars in my experience is that they have problems with neck, frets and bridge which might not allow you to play as fast if that's what you're into, you might have tuning problems and the pickups might not be so good. But there's plenty sub 1k guitars that are free of those problems. If I were in a touring band that's even worse, how could I bring a 2k guitar on tour? If something was to happen to it I would be so fucked...
> 
> Then again I couldn't afford a super expensive guitar anyway and I work a seasonal job. Also I have just spent an nice amount on a new desktop PC, GPU prices are pretty crazy now, but I've been looking forward to this for years..



Obvious it's one of those things in life where you will always probably want one until you get it, but I agree that theres not a drastic difference from a mid level ~$1000 guitar with a crazy custom. You may get better quality control, or special options that lower cost ones dont (like Aristides, you are paying for the tech) - but generally if I was talking from a purely practical sense, a decent Schecter Keith Merrow model under $1000 is just as good as any metal custom guitar. I personally think barebones Kiesel guitars are some of the absolute best value you can get, if you keep low on the crazy options. People want what they see on instagram/etc, so there will always be a market for crazy guitars, but if I suddenly found myself in a dire financial situation, I'd probably sell all the Aristides and etc and just keep like a Schecter KM7 or if I wanted less metal, something like a Charvel DK2 Pro. The dropoff wouldnt be large enough to risk putting myself in debt for. Affordable guitars are so damn good now compared to the crap I had to buy for $400 back in 2006 even... I remember it was impossible to find ANY neckthru/setneck guitars that wern't complete shit under a grand back then. You were basically stuck with Ibanez RG's if you wanted a playable guitar that wasnt 2 inches of action with razor-sharp fret edges sticking out, under a grand.


----------



## Drew (Oct 18, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> Making money just by having money is gross.


Eh, both capital AND labor are necessary for production, and if an investment (making money by having money) into technology allows labor to be used more productively, that's kind of an everybody wins outcome. I have no problem with that. 

Where I do get a little more concerned though is when the tax consequences of making money by investment start to favor that over making money by labor, and when the return on labor starts to lag the return on capital. I also think that a lot of the ways that capitalism can be a very efficient means of allocating scarce resources start to break down in the presence of large intergenerational wealth transfer, as one of the implicit underpinnings of using price in a fair market as the means of allocating resources is that everyone is starting out with approximately the same total amount of potential utility, and if Daddy leaves me $20 million to spend how I see fit, that's pretty clearly no longer a realistic assumption. 

Neither here nor there, of course, but every time you deposit money in a savings account, or part of your paycheck goes into a retirement account you're saving for your future, you're "making money by having money," and I don't think what you find gross is the concept of saving, so much as the scale.


----------



## Drew (Oct 18, 2021)

Oooh, I'll bite! 



Darkscience said:


> 2. It is not wise to take financial advise from a guitar gear forum about 7 strings. (Come at me)
> 3. There is always risk when investing. (Come at me)


#2 I'm a CFA charterholder and professional investor for a living. I'm reasonably sure I'm not the only one. There's a LOT of intellectual diversity here, and some specialists in some pretty esoteric fields. I wouldn't take any advice blindly, and I'd tell you as much about anything I have to say here too, but there's a lot of different backgrounds with a lot of different areas of expertise here. 

#3 This really takes some unpacking, as there's a LOT of different ways of thinking about and understanding risk. But, at a minimum, if you interpret it in the volatility-based "uncertainty around outcome" sense, then technically Treasury notes and bonds held to maturity are risk free in that there's no uncertainty surrounding their terminal value, and if you wanted to move a little more towards a shortfall risk model where you're concerned with not meeting some sort of return objective, in the long run and held to maturity, Treasury TIPS will mature at a known real (inflation adjusted) value while paying a given real coupon rate as they approach maturity. As you get further and further down the "shortfall risk" interpretation of risk, that becomes less and less true, of course, but the volatility-based "uncertainty in outcome" way of thinking about risk is still the most common way the term is understood, so yes, there are riskless invesments - I'd add FDIC-insured savings, money market accounts, and CDs to that list as well, and anything else bearing a government guarantee.


----------



## budda (Oct 18, 2021)

Someone mentioned a dopamine hit with NGD's. Sometimes I get super excited, but Ive got a few guitars this year where I was like "cool, its here, lets use it". Some of those didnt-freak-out-when-it-arrived guitars have stayed (for now) and some have not. I noticed the reactions and find it interesting, as previously any NGD was an exciting time.


----------



## Jeffrey Bain (Oct 18, 2021)

budda said:


> Someone mentioned a dopamine hit with NGD's. Sometimes I get super excited, but Ive got a few guitars this year where I was like "cool, its here, lets use it". Some of those didnt-freak-out-when-it-arrived guitars have stayed (for now) and some have not. I noticed the reactions and find it interesting, as previously any NGD was an exciting time.


Somewhat similar to "the chase" when it comes to relationships. Your desire always burns hotter when you don't have something yet; think it's just human nature


----------



## Lozek (Oct 18, 2021)

Drew said:


> Oooh, I'll bite!
> 
> Stuff.....



I knew the whiff of financial advice and shirt memes would bring you into this thread.


----------



## budda (Oct 18, 2021)

Jeffrey Bain said:


> Somewhat similar to "the chase" when it comes to relationships. Your desire always burns hotter when you don't have something yet; think it's just human nature



I dunno. I tried and R9 and an R7, and while I had hopes of fawning, neither made me want to move my standard 50s to get it. Sometimes guitars are just tools, even if they're high end.


----------



## Lozek (Oct 18, 2021)

budda said:


> I dunno. I tried and R9 and an R7, and while I had hopes of fawning, neither made me want to move my standard 50s to get it. Sometimes guitars are just tools, even if they're high end.



Truth. No amount of saving, designing and waiting can influence which guitar your hand instinctively reaches for.


----------



## Winspear (Oct 18, 2021)

I bought the vast majority of my gear whilst working a min wage job in a shop before having a family. ~$15-20,000 income depending on overtime, rent and bills $1k a month tops (literally, _just_ rent and ~4 bills and $40 a week for food) left several thousand minimum free every year for gear easy.
Now I earn double that (with my business) but my outgoings are three times as high so I had to sell most of the gear, oops


----------



## michael_bolton (Oct 18, 2021)

Lorcan Ward said:


> Most people in this thread



lol. I'm a boot guy. Cheap worn out Ts and sweatshirts, some from the thrift store (although some of those are like $1 beefy USA-made Ts), army surplus store pants etc, but then some red wing boots or better. Breaking in a pair of Nick's as I'm typing this.


----------



## Drew (Oct 18, 2021)

Lozek said:


> I knew the whiff of financial advice and shirt memes would bring you into this thread.


I am a man of simple pleasures, what can I say. 



budda said:


> Someone mentioned a dopamine hit with NGD's. Sometimes I get super excited, but Ive got a few guitars this year where I was like "cool, its here, lets use it". Some of those didnt-freak-out-when-it-arrived guitars have stayed (for now) and some have not. I noticed the reactions and find it interesting, as previously any NGD was an exciting time.


I've always struggled with understanding this, and I kind of wonder if social media has made it worse, in that often times a NGD is just an excuse to take a bunch of pictures and reap in the likes and comments. 

Getting a new guitar is great. But, it doens't hold a candle to reaching for one that you've owned for 20 years, know inside and out, and can tell the story of every scratch and ding on the body.


----------



## budda (Oct 18, 2021)

Im definitely enjoying playing my LP versus fishing for likes, so thats some solace


----------



## John (Oct 18, 2021)

Drew said:


> Getting a new guitar is great. But, it doens't hold a candle to reaching for one that you've owned for 20 years, know inside and out, and can tell the story of every scratch and ding on the body.



Couldn't agree more. I know some folks have gotten a kick over way more NGD's like they were baseball trading cards, but that just comes across as relatively hollow and short-lived compared to utilizing some instruments that have served you well over the years, and better yet ones you have sentimental value associated with.

The only acquisitions I'd really consider bothering with anymore are instruments that were on my bucket list that are great if they finally come around. (ie- discontinued model I've wanted for ages, but usually harder to come by)


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Oct 18, 2021)

Drew said:


> I am a man of simple pleasures, what can I say.
> 
> 
> I've always struggled with understanding this, and I kind of wonder if social media has made it worse, in that often times a NGD is just an excuse to take a bunch of pictures and reap in the likes and comments.
> ...




I can relate to the dopamine hit. I mean not just with guitars, but buying stuff in general. I like new things. It feels good to get new things. It's not like a huge rush, but it just feels good. I'm also not really into vintage stuff so if I buy something used it's more of an "cool, this is nice. It'll fit the need" vs "aww yeaah! I got a shiny brand new toy"

I get that without social media, but I can see how that would play a big part for some so they can show off.


----------



## Drew (Oct 18, 2021)

John said:


> Couldn't agree more. I know some folks have gotten a kick over way more NGD's like they were baseball trading cards, but that just comes across as relatively hollow and short-lived compared to utilizing some instruments that have served you well over the years, and better yet ones you have sentimental value associated with.
> 
> The only acquisitions I'd really consider bothering with anymore are instruments that were on my bucket list that are great if they finally come around. (ie- discontinued model I've wanted for ages, but usually harder to come by)


I want a Tele of some sort at some point, but (unless trends have moved in some REALLY weird ways and I just haven't been keeping up) a fairly traditional two singlecoil Tele is the sort of guitar guaranteed to generate the LEAST amount of interest around here, I figure.


----------



## jaxadam (Oct 18, 2021)

I don’t have a problem with new guitar threads. I have a problem with new guitar threads that are going to be for sale threads 3 months later.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Oct 18, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> I don’t have a problem with new guitar threads. I have a problem with new guitar threads that are going to be for sale threads 3 months later.



I'm indecisive as fuck, what can I say. I'm making it a point to commit to what I've got once this cycle of sales and exchanges is over though since it's impossible to find what I've got currently. 

Ya boy has the attention span of a goldfish.


----------



## ChrisLA (Oct 19, 2021)

evade said:


> Have always been interested in where wealth and money comes from, and it appears a lot of you are r1ch! I am curious what you gentlemen & ladies (are there even women on the internet), do for a living. I see people on threads with 3 custom shops (that's around $12-15K) for just three guitars. What exactly is that you guys do that you can afford these instruments?
> 
> I get having a job, and I have one myself, but I have a difficult time dropping anything more than $1.5K on a used guitar. I wouldn't ever drop $1K on a new guitar because that would speak too much volume about where that guitar is made.
> 
> I'm curious if it's bad financial decisions, impulse purchases, or you're just straight loaded. And if you are able to make these decisions, you needed to some extent, the initial capital so I'm curious what the story behind your purchases are. I'd like to hear them even if you were saving for years and were finally able to afford one, etc.


Prioritizing I guess, at least in many cases. I have friends with hi-end stuff and a nice recording set-up at home, but that skip overseas holidays and drive an old car. 
I also have friends that are simply cheap or not dedicated enough, they think a guitar for 2-3k is crazy expensive but at the same time they buy stuff like Motorcycles, huge TVs, audio equipment and ATVs just "for fun" for WAY more than what a Custom built guitar would cost.


----------



## JJ Smitee (Oct 19, 2021)

Save money; buy n sell good ones so you can get the other ones; BUY USED WHENEVER POSSIBLE. Reverb is GOD. Lol

I save and buy a lot: we have no kids, we don’t go out…Ike some folks said, 15k isn’t even the price on a decent new car (although you CAN get a good used one). There are basses like the ones I’m saving for like Wal and Carl Thompson that cost 7k and up, but yeah you can get that back (if you’re nutty enough to sell). 

Get what you can and enjoy it because you get one life.


----------



## joedreamliner787 (Oct 19, 2021)

Hey so here is how I've done it.
It took over a decade to get to where I am at. Yes I make alot of money but that is because I became an electrician, then a fire system engineer and I own a company engineering and installing commerical fire alarm system. The the first 3 years of business I broke even. After that the business revenue climbed between 18-26% per year. The past 3 months I did more volume than I did the entire year last year. This is due to constant repeat business, taking on new clients that generate recurring revenue in monitoring, inspections and service which is mandated by national, state and local jurisdictional codes with amendments. For every 100 accounts it generates 56K per year in revenue. Currently at 352 accounts at the time of this writing. It took an entire decade to build it. For engineering services, this generates close to 2-7k per month pending how many clients call for fire alarm engineering service. 9 times out of 10 they don't have drawings of old buildings so I physically go to the site and generate an architectural base plan in Autocad live at the location to facilitate the fire alarm design. This will usually be in the 4k range just to draft it for a 3 story building. My car is paid off, house free and clear. I have zero debt and no loans. The key is finding something you are incredibly passionate about so it does not feel like work. It's beyound a job and career. It has to feel fulfilling. Today everything is going to subscription base services. Any area that creates multiple streams of passive income is essential. My buddy sells web domains. He basically buys and flips them to local business making an average 100-500 per site which doesn't sound like alot however he will sell on average 10 per day working only 3-4 hrs per day. When you have no debt and your income is great you can really grab some nice gear. I remember when I was 16 not being able to afford anything but a cheap Jackson or Fender strat. I also had cancer twice which I beat and it put my drive into over drive and now I don't think twice if I want something. When I was going through chemo the real agony wasn't being able to play guitar because I was terribly tired and had no strength. So today being healthy I don't take any day for granted. That is my story and how I got hear. I hope that helps


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 19, 2021)

I have 8 guitars, of which half were bought new (but on clearance deals) and half were bought used (at <50% new price). It has taken a lot of time and patience for me to find good deals that made these guitars affordable to me. None are custom shop, but I have an Ibanez J.Custom and 5 prestiges.

I don't have any kids to pay for and am generally quite tight/careful with my money. My first guitar (low-end) was bought with money I got for my 18th birthday. 6 of the other 7 were purchased when I got a pay rise or bonus at work. The other was just too good a deal to pass up on (and I had the money available).

Most people I know who've commented on how much I spend on guitars have spent FAR more than me on cars, so "priorities" are definitely relevant to what people can/can't afford. I know plenty of people on similar income to me who upgrade their car every few years and as a result have little spare income and haven't saved up a deposit for a house. If I had bought fewer/cheaper guitars, the money saved would have been used to overpay my mortgage (which will be paid off years before I retire without any overpayments).

EDIT: I also don't splurge on expensive holidays, like some of my friends/relatives, which could easily exceed a music festival (I go to Bloodstock Open Air each summer) + a guitar/amp + multiple gigs each year.


----------



## DoctorStoner (Oct 19, 2021)

There are so many good answers here!!

When I was younger and making small money, $5-7 an hour or so, I would put away 10% for 'fun' stuff if I had enough to spare. All of the rest went to necessities (rent and food) or savings/retirement. Nowhere else.
Then when I eventually had $3k in my savings, I bought my fist used 7 string for $300. Years later with $10k in the bank, I bought my Loomis for $1000.

Luckily I got myself through college with mostly scholarships, then moved in with my parents for a couple years after the 08 crisis and losing my job and hope for real employment, I worked in retail with a BS in engineering for 3 years. I eventually found a job and have been working my way up for 9 years. Far from rich, but with no kids, it's comfortable.

TLDR; Engineer with disciplined savings strategies.


----------



## damigu (Oct 19, 2021)

A lot of times, there's a bit of price inflating involved.

I have a 25 year old bass. What is it worth?
I bought it used in 1999. It took a lot of haggling but I got it for $500, but the sticker they had on it was $700 (had some dings, needed electrical work, and I bought it along with other stuff so they knocked still a bit more off as a "bundle" thing). Inflation puts that $700 value around the $1100-$1200 range today. That's about realistic for what they usually go for these days. But one recently sold on Reverb for $1800 after a bidding war.

So what's it worth? $1800 isn't strictly being dishonest. But I only paid $500 for it.


----------



## budda (Oct 19, 2021)

damigu said:


> A lot of times, there's a bit of price inflating involved.
> 
> I have a 25 year old bass. What is it worth?
> I bought it used in 1999. It took a lot of haggling but I got it for $500, but the sticker they had on it was $700 (had some dings, needed electrical work, and I bought it along with other stuff so they knocked still a bit more off as a "bundle" thing). Inflation puts that $700 value around the $1100-$1200 range today. That's about realistic for what they usually go for these days. But one recently sold on Reverb for $1800 after a bidding war.
> ...



So if you sell you'll make money. Where's the issue? There's no dishonesty here?


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 19, 2021)

budda said:


> So if you sell you'll make money. Where's the issue? There's no dishonesty here?


Exactly! 
I have paid 30-50% under RRP for all of my new guitars, in clearance deals, so theoretically could have flipped them on the used market (in mint condition) for a slight profit.
My used guitars were also bought at the low end of what the models routinely sell for, and some have gone up massively with inflation.

If I valued my guitar collection based on what I paid, I would be leaving myself well short if I ever needed to make an insurance claim on them. For example, I bought a mint RG2550 for about £500 used years ago, but could now sell it for more (it's still in fantastic condition) and my insurer would have to pay more like £1500 to replace it with a current equivalent model ('new for old' policy).


----------



## damigu (Oct 19, 2021)

budda said:


> So if you sell you'll make money. Where's the issue? There's no dishonesty here?



That's kind of my point. It isn't dishonest if I say it's an $1800 bass because one did sell for that much. But that is inflating the much more realistic market value of $1200.

I think a lot of that goes around when people talk about the value of their guitars. It becomes a bit of a measuring contest. They'll tell you the highest price they've seen one go for -- maybe even round it up a bit -- instead of what the more realistic expected value would be. Or, if they bought it new, they'll tell you the MSRP instead of the actual market price they paid.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 19, 2021)

JJ Smitee said:


> Save money; buy n sell good ones so you can get the other ones; BUY USED WHENEVER POSSIBLE. Reverb is GOD. Lol
> 
> I save and buy a lot: we have no kids, we don’t go out…Ike some folks said, 15k isn’t even the price on a decent new car (although you CAN get a good used one). There are basses like the ones I’m saving for like Wal and Carl Thompson that cost 7k and up, but yeah you can get that back (if you’re nutty enough to sell).
> 
> Get what you can and enjoy it because you get one life.



I'd agree with the sentiment of buying used for sure.


----------



## budda (Oct 19, 2021)

damigu said:


> That's kind of my point. It isn't dishonest if I say it's an $1800 bass because one did sell for that much. But that is inflating the much more realistic market value of $1200.
> 
> I think a lot of that goes around when people talk about the value of their guitars. It becomes a bit of a measuring contest. They'll tell you the highest price they've seen one go for -- maybe even round it up a bit -- instead of what the more realistic expected value would be. Or, if they bought it new, they'll tell you the MSRP instead of the actual market price they paid.



But it was a bidding war which is how it sold for $1800. That tells you the market is hot enough that $1600-$1800 would go quick. So price at $1800 and either it sells in hours or days. $1200 seems like "great deal" territory because again, bidding war at $600 higher.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Oct 19, 2021)

One interest thing to observe is seeing some really high-dollar NGD posts by people who in other threads discussed receiving stimulus checks. Economy was definitely stimulated!

The odd thing there is that to receive stimulus you had to be under an income level to be eligible.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 19, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> One interest thing to observe is seeing some really high-dollar NGD posts by people who in other threads discussed receiving stimulus checks. Economy was definitely stimulated!
> 
> The odd thing there is that to receive stimulus you had to be under an income level to be eligible.


yea i used my stimulus check as savings and put it in the market though


----------



## Nitrobattery (Oct 19, 2021)

Not to brag, but I'm in my 30's have spent a large portion of that time with up to 10's of dollars in savings.

Really though, lots of buying/selling/trading where the deals lean in my favor, a lot of right place at the right time, and being lucky enough to make something resembling a living doing something I love. It's just where your priorities fall. Smoking a pack of cigarettes for a year is the same money as a custom shop guitar. It's amazing how much you're left with at the end of the year when you cut out little unnecessary things.


----------



## John (Oct 19, 2021)

DoctorStoner said:


> disciplined savings strategies.





Even this much as been overlooked, from what I've noticed among several others guitar-related or otherwise.


----------



## Drew (Oct 19, 2021)

John said:


> Even this much as been overlooked, from what I've noticed among several others guitar-related or otherwise.


Think you might have quoted the wrong post there, as following the link to that post of mine, I don't see that phrase anywhere in it.


----------



## John (Oct 19, 2021)

Drew said:


> Think you might have quoted the wrong post there, as following the link to that post of mine, I don't see that phrase anywhere in it.



Sorry. Not sure how that happened, but I went back to fix it just the same.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Oct 19, 2021)

Saving and patience.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 19, 2021)

Nitrobattery said:


> Not to brag, but I'm in my 30's have spent a large portion of that time with up to 10's of dollars in savings.
> 
> Really though, lots of buying/selling/trading where the deals lean in my favor, a lot of right place at the right time, and being lucky enough to make something resembling a living doing something I love. It's just where your priorities fall. Smoking a pack of cigarettes for a year is the same money as a custom shop guitar. It's amazing how much you're left with at the end of the year when you cut out little unnecessary things.


Smoking, buying takeaway coffee, not taking a packed lunch to work (or paying for kids to have school dinners instead of sending them with a packed lunch), going out drinking, eating out, not cooking from scratch, buying lots of brand-name groceries etc....any one of those could cost as much annually as a decent guitar and some people spend a lot on *all* of them without even thinking about it.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 19, 2021)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Smoking, buying takeaway coffee, not taking a packed lunch to work (or paying for kids to have school dinners instead of sending them with a packed lunch), going out drinking, eating out, not cooking from scratch, buying lots of brand-name groceries etc....any one of those could cost as much annually as a decent guitar and some people spend a lot on *all* of them without even thinking about it.



It's actually scare how that stuff can add up quick. As for not eating outside, I'm not sure if any of you have experienced the collective degradation of quality in restaurants since the pandemic. They think they can get away with it too. I guess to an extent, but I no longer frequent any restaurants.


----------



## Drew (Oct 19, 2021)

John said:


> Sorry. Not sure how that happened, but I went back to fix it just the same.


No worries, I was just confused.


----------



## diek (Oct 20, 2021)

I was poor 15 years ago, but I got a regular job (software), worked my way up the ladder, then opened my own business and now I spend money like it’s going out of style. Am I a millionaire?...not yet, but that is the goal within the next 5 years, fingers crossed. It also helps that I bought crypto when it was cheap and people thought it was for criminals only. I have used some of those proceeds to buy some nice toys, but I hodl mostly.


----------



## bronxct1 (Oct 20, 2021)

Software Engineering Manager. I spent a lot of my time early on trying to mod cheap guitars into something better without much success. Over the last 5 years or so I no longer have the time to tweak and mod so I've converted my collection into guitars and amps/gear I plan on keeping for life. I've made some expensive purchases but they are thought out and I value my time more now so knowing I can pick up any of my collection and not have to do much more than change strings and adjust the truss rod every once in a while is nice and allows me to make use of my playing time. I have a few of my old projects around mostly because they aren't in a state that I can unload them but I don't have the time to get them in playable shape. I've tried donating but can't really get anyone to respond since covid hit.

I also know that I have bought things that hold value so if I do need to pair things down in the future, I can get a good chunk of the money I put in back. That's not something you can do when you're starting from an inexpensive guitar


----------



## gclef (Oct 20, 2021)

Construction industry here. My wife does well too. She's white collar.

I can afford just about anything i want, given time and discussion about any big purchases.

Fortunately for me:

I dont sell anything. So, no flipping.

I know what i like. I do not buy stuff just to try it out.

I hate losing money

I buy factory 2nds and b stocks/open box returns where possible the save money

I do my research. Is this what i want? Will this give me the sound i am looking for? It can take months to narrow down a pickup choice for instance, but that choice very often is one and done, I'm happy

The stuff i like happens to be lower tier stuff for the most part. Ibanez for instance. I like wizard 3 necks, which come on the standard line. I like maple fretboards, which also appear on the lower lines more often. Pro fret levels. 

I am smart with my money, or at least i try to be. We are big into paying down debt, so this naturally deters me from spending willy nilly.

I sound like me no matter what i play, so i play what works for me. Pickups are used to correct any deficiency in the guitar's sound. To bright? Get warmer pickups. To warm/eh sounding? Get brighter pickups or ones with more character. 

None of my guitars cross the 2 grand threshold
Only 2 of 10 break the thousand dollar threshold.
All are good working man's guitars, and i am good with that.

Overall, its kind of a mindset I have. If you are happy with and appreciative of what you have, you don't really need to look elsewhere. This can be applied to relationships, careers, etc as well.


----------



## that short guy (Oct 20, 2021)

Drew said:


> I want a Tele of some sort at some point, but (unless trends have moved in some REALLY weird ways and I just haven't been keeping up) a fairly traditional two singlecoil Tele is the sort of guitar guaranteed to generate the LEAST amount of interest around here, I figure.



A tele of any type/brand/style always peaks my interest


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 20, 2021)

Drew said:


> I want a Tele of some sort at some point, but (unless trends have moved in some REALLY weird ways and I just haven't been keeping up) a fairly traditional two singlecoil Tele is the sort of guitar guaranteed to generate the LEAST amount of interest around here, I figure.


You're not wrong


----------



## Drew (Oct 20, 2021)

that short guy said:


> A tele of any type/brand/style always peaks my interest


You're squarely in the minority, though.  A good one is basically a cutting board with two singlecoils and a plate bridge with a maple neck bolted on, which is hardly trendy around these parts.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 20, 2021)

Drew said:


> You're squarely in the minority, though.  A good one is basically a cutting board with two singlecoils and a plate bridge with a maple neck bolted on, which is hardly trendy around these parts.


smh not even a juice groove on most of these teles


----------



## Drew (Oct 20, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> smh not even a juice groove on most of these teles


 

Too small to carve a roast, anyway, dicing veggies is about as good as you're going to get on the back of a Tele.


----------



## IbanezDaemon (Oct 20, 2021)

For me: I've just always had piles of guitars/gear going back decades. Lots of movers and shakers over that time. Personal situation: No dependant children (although I had a 21 year old daughter that I never knew about from a relationship I was in when I was like 20 contact me on FB which has cost me a small fortune). Mortgage is paid off. Don't do much. Maybe eat out about once a month. Def don't do bars anymore. Have 2 wee doggies that most of my attention goes to. I drink at home only. Most of my disposable income goes on gear or beer.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 20, 2021)

gclef said:


> Construction industry here. My wife does well too. She's white collar.
> 
> I can afford just about anything i want, given time and discussion about any big purchases.
> 
> ...


 I appreciate the input and the well thought out response. Thanks for the perspective.


----------



## Wucan (Oct 23, 2021)

I do my homework before buying. I've spent less on my two EBMM guitars than it would take to buy either brand new.

Besides, you don't need to spend much money to land a great guitar. The EBMM stuff, I got when I was still building a career. Nowadays I'm comfortable financially but I have no impulse whatsoever to buy more expensive guitars. My latest buys have been Squiers, a MIM Fender and a MII LTD. 

The most important thing is to actually enjoy the guitar you're playing, and no amount of money can make up for a guitar that doesn't feel right.


----------



## valvefury (Oct 23, 2021)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Smoking, buying takeaway coffee, not taking a packed lunch to work (or paying for kids to have school dinners instead of sending them with a packed lunch), going out drinking, eating out, not cooking from scratch, buying lots of brand-name groceries etc....any one of those could cost as much annually as a decent guitar and some people spend a lot on *all* of them without even thinking about it.



Just one or two of these items adds up so FAST! Great point.


----------



## USMarine75 (Oct 23, 2021)

I bought all my Peaveys and EVH stuff before Eddie died.


----------



## josh1 (Oct 23, 2021)

I usually buy used, so I'll wait until a good deal shows it's self. Like my Prestige for example, I found that locally for 400 bucks with OHSC. The most I've spent for a guitar was 500 dollars and that was for a mint Axion Label which I also found used. Personally I can't justify spending a lot of money of guitars because this is my number 3 hobby. Muay Thai costs me a lot and boy, don't even remind me or make me do the math on how much motorcycle gear and repairs costs me.


----------



## bigcupholder (Oct 23, 2021)

Figure out what's worth it for you. You're trading your life for money. That's all employment is. There's no bonus points for dying with a fortune and there's no use working more than you have to if you're just spending money on shit that doesn't improve your life.

There's a million ways to save money but if it makes you miserable, it's not worth it. e.g. I could say "don't have kids" and that would either be great advice or terrible advice depending on if that's something you find meaningful in life or not.

But if possible, live where you don't need a car. The greatest scam in human history is how we built our cities for cars and we're stuck in this prisoner's dilemma of public transit being terrible because everyone drives because public transit is terrible. Live where this isn't the case.


----------



## budda (Oct 23, 2021)

bigcupholder said:


> Figure out what's worth it for you. You're trading your life for money. That's all employment is. There's no bonus points for dying with a fortune and there's no use working more than you have to if you're just spending money on shit that doesn't improve your life.
> 
> There's a million ways to save money but if it makes you miserable, it's not worth it. e.g. I could say "don't have kids" and that would either be great advice or terrible advice depending on if that's something you find meaningful in life or not.
> 
> But if possible, live where you don't need a car. The greatest scam in human history is how we built our cities for cars and we're stuck in this prisoner's dilemma of public transit being terrible because everyone drives because public transit is terrible. Live where this isn't the case.



They mean Europe as far as transit is concerned.


----------



## Marked Man (Oct 23, 2021)

Stalking for years. Sub $2000 used is my moral self limit, which can net you a very nice guitar that might be $5000 new, even though I could easily afford any guitar or gear I want. But it's simply stupid to pay more than something is really worth after it hits the open market. People who don't understand this will probably never be or at least will never STAY "rich". 

Also, there are of course different standards of "rich". If you think rich has anything to do with someone's salary or having an expensive new car or house, you don't know what it means. Rich people don't have to work or earn a salary to continue to be rich.


----------



## Marked Man (Oct 23, 2021)

bigcupholder said:


> Figure out what's worth it for you. You're trading your life for money. That's all employment is. There's no bonus points for dying with a fortune and there's no use working more than you have to if you're just spending money on shit that doesn't improve your life.
> 
> There's a million ways to save money but if it makes you miserable, it's not worth it. e.g. I could say "don't have kids" and that would either be great advice or terrible advice depending on if that's something you find meaningful in life or not.
> 
> But if possible, live where you don't need a car. The greatest scam in human history is how we built our cities for cars and we're stuck in this prisoner's dilemma of public transit being terrible because everyone drives because public transit is terrible. Live where this isn't the case.



I would hate life if I had to depend on someone else for my freedom of (safe) movement, especially the corrupt, incompetent government.

I love cars just as much as music, and driving a nice one on a long or short trip can be therapy just like playing music can for me.


----------



## Wucan (Oct 23, 2021)

bigcupholder said:


> Figure out what's worth it for you. You're trading your life for money. That's all employment is. There's no bonus points for dying with a fortune and there's no use working more than you have to if you're just spending money on shit that doesn't improve your life.
> 
> There's a million ways to save money but if it makes you miserable, it's not worth it. e.g. I could say "don't have kids" and that would either be great advice or terrible advice depending on if that's something you find meaningful in life or not.
> 
> But if possible, live where you don't need a car. The greatest scam in human history is how we built our cities for cars and we're stuck in this prisoner's dilemma of public transit being terrible because everyone drives because public transit is terrible. Live where this isn't the case.



Not owning a car has made life a lot easier financially for me, but sadly in North America there aren't many places you can get away with it. I'm fortunate that I've been able to live near talented musicians and techs so that I don't need to lug gear in a car, but it's not feasible for most people.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand (Oct 23, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> I would hate life if I had to depend on someone else for my freedom of (safe) movement, especially the corrupt, incompetent government.
> 
> I love cars just as much as music, and driving a nice one on a long or short trip can be therapy just like playing music can for me.



You drive your car on roads maintained by the government. So you still depend on said corrupt governing body. But its a nice facade of freedom to drive in a car while paying yearly property tax and for gasoline at constantly fluctuating prices, all the meanwhile paying heed to traffic laws maintained by yet another often corrupt governing body.


----------



## BabUShka (Oct 23, 2021)

I was lucky. Most of my friends chose engineering studies, I chose the same - Even through I had no clue what it ment. It was very interesting and gave me a lot of career possibilities.

My advice is : if you can - go to school, get a job where your manager values hard work and ambitions. I played my Korea Epiphone and Schecter for many years while having a very good salary. I was focusing to save money and to get out of renting a home, to buy my own home. I had one year where i spent money like crazy, it gave me nothing, all the gadgets lost their value over time. Now that house and family situation is stable, I can finally focus on saving for / buying the guitars that I want - without feeling guilty.


----------



## Metal Mortician (Oct 23, 2021)

Woah, nice philosophical points here everyone!

Everything has retail and perceived value. 

I’ve met collectors who buy just to flip for profit, but that comes with patience and, admittedly, diminishing returns.

Just think about the players with access to prestigious custom shops but still play their run of the mill stock models they grew up with. Leo has a SHIT ton of gear, but he plays a stock 7620 most of the time.

We can lust after gear all we want, but GAS won’t make you happier or play better/more frequently.

To speak to the perception of wealth, it’s different for everyone. I have just wanted to be comfortable; I have also met many millionaires who are NOT happy with life and on antidepressants or have a drinking problem just to cope with the stress that comes with.

I busted my ass in school to improve myself situation as an low paid Embalmer to a busy Physician Assistant. Even though I could afford an ESP or PRS custom, I still play most of the guitars I had for 10 years, mostly because anything greater than 1k makes me nervous about putting that first damn ding in the thing…. If I have to handle my gear with kid gloves, then I’m not enjoying my time with it. 

Also helps that I went through a phase where I went through and bought much of the gear I thought I wanted (LTD Amott and Alexi) only to see them as poorly made. So I’m a bit disenfranchised with the shiny and new.

Stuff on the forums is cool to look at and all, but there is a great reason the mantra here is still, “get a used 7620/prestige.” Many of the workhorses aren’t fancy or, dare I say, prestigious, but they stand abuse and the test of time and changing tastes.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 23, 2021)

Metal Mortician said:


> Woah, nice philosophical points here everyone!
> 
> Everything has retail and perceived value.
> 
> ...



solid points - ive seen the word GAS tossed around here, what does it mean?


----------



## 3bolt79 (Oct 23, 2021)

evade said:


> solid points - ive seen the word GAS tossed around here, what does it mean?


GAS is an acronym for Gear Aquisition Syndrome. It is what happens when you obsess on the guitars and amps you don’t have, and do anything short of selling your soul,to get it. It’s a sickness lol. I could sell my ex wife’s soul, as she’s not using it. But, I wouldn’t get much for it, not even a Squier Bullet.


----------



## protest (Oct 24, 2021)

I never say no to interest free loans.


----------



## laxu (Oct 24, 2021)

bigcupholder said:


> But if possible, live where you don't need a car. The greatest scam in human history is how we built our cities for cars and we're stuck in this prisoner's dilemma of public transit being terrible because everyone drives because public transit is terrible. Live where this isn't the case.



I've probably saved a ton of money by never having owned a car in my life. If needed I've rented or borrowed one or had a friend drive if were going together somewhere. I live in the Helsinki metropolitan area and we have good public transportation so aside from moving things there is little need to own a car.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 24, 2021)

3bolt79 said:


> GAS is an acronym for Gear Aquisition Syndrome. It is what happens when you obsess on the guitars and amps you don’t have, and do anything short of selling your soul,to get it. It’s a sickness lol. I could sell my ex wife’s soul, as she’s not using it. But, I wouldn’t get much for it, not even a Squier Bullet.


ah made me chuckle haha


----------



## /wrists (Oct 24, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> Stalking for years. Sub $2000 used is my moral self limit, which can net you a very nice guitar that might be $5000 new, even though I could easily afford any guitar or gear I want. But it's simply stupid to pay more than something is really worth after it hits the open market. People who don't understand this will probably never be or at least will never STAY "rich".
> 
> Also, there are of course different standards of "rich". If you think rich has anything to do with someone's salary or having an expensive new car or house, you don't know what it means. Rich people don't have to work or earn a salary to continue to be rich.


honestly was joking when i made that statement - i understand that essentially it's just a hobby like most and we spend money on what we like to make life worth living etc 

was just making a point that some people have some really sick collections and it's nothing i could justify for myself so i just wanted to see the mentality behind those who might be bigger spenders than myself


----------



## IwantTacos (Oct 25, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> Stalking for years. Sub $2000 used is my moral self limit, which can net you a very nice guitar that might be $5000 new, even though I could easily afford any guitar or gear I want. But it's simply stupid to pay more than something is really worth after it hits the open market. People who don't understand this will probably never be or at least will never STAY "rich".
> 
> Also, there are of course different standards of "rich". If you think rich has anything to do with someone's salary or having an expensive new car or house, you don't know what it means. Rich people don't have to work or earn a salary to continue to be rich.




Gonna be honest buddy that last bit is a headscratcher


----------



## _MonSTeR_ (Oct 25, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> Stalking for years. Sub $2000 used is my moral self limit, which can net you a very nice guitar that might be $5000 new, even though I could easily afford any guitar or gear I want. But it's simply stupid to pay more than something is really worth after it hits the open market. People who don't understand this will probably never be or at least will never STAY "rich".
> 
> Also, there are of course different standards of "rich". If you think rich has anything to do with someone's salary or having an expensive new car or house, you don't know what it means. Rich people don't have to work or earn a salary to continue to be rich.



The rich stay rich, by living like they're poor. The poor stay poor by living like they're rich.

Back before college I had a saturday job on a farm veterinarian's practice (so mucking out the stables of sick horses, greeeeeeeat job!!!) and there was this smelly homeless woman who used to just sort of hang around there, I thought she just liked animals. Turns out she wasn't homeless, she was the owner... Of the business, of the farm and of everything you could see from where the place was... She was "rich"


----------



## 3bolt79 (Oct 25, 2021)

I am fortunate that my wife doesn’t object to me buying guitars. I was a member of the one a month club for two years running. I’ve started to slow down a bit. 

I have just about everything that I want guitar wise, pedal wise, and amp wise. I want one more Mesa amp, and that may be closer at hand, as I might buy my son’s F30 combo. He is going over seas and won’t be taking that with him. But I don’t feel right playing through it without paying him.

I bought my 79 strat off of him. He was going to just let me have it, as he will be gone about 5 years, and can’t take it with him. We have actually bought and sold that guitar to each other 4 times now. And he knows that if I croak, all of my gear will be going to him. When I die he can pick what to keep, and sell the rest and give half the money to my wife.

The doc was convinced that I had cancer, and my health was such that it didn’t look like I was going to be around much longer. That is when I decided to start doing everything that I wanted to do sooner, rather than later. 

Docs still don’t know what is the matter with me. I will find out soon if I will be getting a bone marrow biopsy in November. They want to rule out a form of leukemia. I am having a surgery next month as well.

Playing and working on guitars is the only activity that gives me any happiness. I quit competitive shooting, and riding motorcycles, as shooting was getting too expensive, and less of a challenge, and I got in to accidents on the motorcycle that weren’t my fault.

I got hit by a 1 Ton Ford on my Triumph. Music is the only passion that I have left in my life. Well that and my dog brings me comfort too.

So I have a bucket list of guitars that I want. So far there are only 3 guitars left on it. A Gretsch Super Axe, an early 70’s Telecaster Deluxe, and a 1983 Ibanez Roadstar II RS100 ( that was my first guitar).

Fortunately, most of my desired guitars aren’t Custom Shop models. But I have a couple. Most of what I am interested in is just old, but sometimes costs the same.


----------



## Wucan (Oct 25, 2021)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> The rich stay rich, by living like they're poor. The poor stay poor by living like they're rich.
> 
> Back before college I had a saturday job on a farm veterinarian's practice (so mucking out the stables of sick horses, greeeeeeeat job!!!) and there was this smelly homeless woman who used to just sort of hang around there, I thought she just liked animals. Turns out she wasn't homeless, she was the owner... Of the business, of the farm and of everything you could see from where the place was... She was "rich"



Lots of well-to-do people dress like shit. But not because they're making a conscious decision to be frugal, it's because their appearance (at least outside of their source of prosperity) doesn't matter since they've already secured their wealth. It's us plebs who have to make ourselves look polished so we have a better shot at a 9-5 job or being heard in public places. So to speak, touristic spots for the wealthy aren't known to be fashion hotspots.


----------



## pondman (Oct 25, 2021)

I had very little money for most of my life until I took the plunge and went self employed.
I loved it and worked and worked and worked until I became comfortable. 

I always remember an old guy telling me that if you want to have lots of money, you do a really big robbery or go self employed. I've never fancied jail so I took the last option.


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 25, 2021)

budda said:


> They mean Europe as far as transit is concerned.


GM destroyed Ohio's public transportation system. On purpose. Cincinnati and Toledo and Dayton all started huge projects for subway systems and railways that would connect them, and GM bought it all up and stopped it. 

Capitalism is awesome isn't it?


----------



## TedEH (Oct 25, 2021)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> The rich stay rich, by living like they're poor. The poor stay poor by living like they're rich.


I mean.... yes, but also no? There's some element of truth to it, but at the same time it implies that everyone starts off on the same footing, with the same opportunities, and the only differences come down to personal choices. Would be a real easy conversation if it really did work that way, but it doesn't.

Also +1 to relative standards for rich. 

I "look rich" to a lot of people because I have the opportunity to live much lower than my means, but I don't make thaaaat much money. I have no kids, I drive a cheap car, I live in a shoebox that I pay pennies for rent because I haven't moved in almost 10 years and they can't legally raise the rent dramatically. So that means I can put money away, I can invest, I can save, I can buy amps and guitars and stuff, and I can buy a new PC and all the video games I could possibly play, I can absorb expensive car repairs, I can take random trips, etc etc etc. I have freedom that a lot of people don't. If I need (or want) something, I just go get it without a second thought because it doesn't matter. I "look rich". 

But compare that to a household with kids where the whole households income is easily more than I make, but they scrape by because they need to pay for 6x the food, 4x school, 4x clothes, the fact that kids don't have an understanding of money or value so they inevitably become money pits, the fact that their housing needs change so they can't stay put and always end up subjected to how rent is skyrocketing, the fact that they're expected to participate in the communities around the schools, have parties, have big holiday meals, the extra stress on the vehicles that already have to be bigger and pricier vehicles to transport everyone around, the need for a second vehicle so that both parents can get to work, paying for daycares and things like that, the extra medical expenses, etc etc etc etc etc.

They're "poor" despite making more money than me, but I'm "rich" because I do well as an individual with no responsibilities.


----------



## bigcupholder (Oct 25, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> I would hate life if I had to depend on someone else for my freedom of (safe) movement, especially the corrupt, incompetent government.
> 
> I love cars just as much as music, and driving a nice one on a long or short trip can be therapy just like playing music can for me.


There's nothing wrong with liking cars, but on a societal level it's extremely inefficient to require every person to own, maintain and store their own car. The average car is parked >95% of the time and most trips have only the driver with no passengers. A huge amount of valuable real estate (downtown or whatever you want to call places where most people go every day) is wasted on storing cars when people get there. It's objectively a really bad solution to moving people around cities.

Even if you're so distrustful of government to provide a collective solution that's more efficient (in terms of time/throughput, space requirements, cost, etc) there are private companies that operate car shares - you book a car with an app, drive where you need to and leave it there for the next person. It's significantly cheaper than owning a car (to bring some relevance back to this reply).


----------



## /wrists (Oct 25, 2021)

bigcupholder said:


> There's nothing wrong with liking cars, but on a societal level it's extremely inefficient to require every person to own, maintain and store their own car. The average car is parked >95% of the time and most trips have only the driver with no passengers. A huge amount of valuable real estate (downtown or whatever you want to call places where most people go every day) is wasted on storing cars when people get there. It's objectively a really bad solution to moving people around cities.
> 
> Even if you're so distrustful of government to provide a collective solution that's more efficient (in terms of time/throughput, space requirements, cost, etc) there are private companies that operate car shares - you book a car with an app, drive where you need to and leave it there for the next person. It's significantly cheaper than owning a car (to bring some relevance back to this reply).


 an uber or lyft? i find those to be more expensive. $30 rides on average anywhere I need to go. 

Gas is $80 for me a month or so - we drive at least 3-4 times a day. Maintenance and registration net around $400 annually, tires $300 every two years maybe. I think it's significantly cheaper to own a used car.


----------



## CanserDYI (Oct 25, 2021)

For my insurance, monthly payment, and gas, I'm about 800 bucks a month just to fucking drive. I only make about 2500 bucks a month.


----------



## /wrists (Oct 25, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> For my insurance, monthly payment, and gas, I'm about 800 bucks a month just to fucking drive. I only make about 2500 bucks a month.


I forgot about insurance - I pay $80 for that/month.


----------



## Riffer (Oct 25, 2021)

What I did was join a good cover band for weekend gigs. The money is great ($250-$450 for a club/casino gig and up anywhere around $1,000 for a wedding private event) and you can write off your purchases on your taxes. Also, and I know it's been said, but having patiences and buying used is what I have found works best for me.


----------



## RadoncROCKs (Oct 25, 2021)

I've only recently joined this site but this is great reading the responses here. I've been playing for 20 years but guitar had become a secondary hobby as I went through med school. 
I was lucky to have my parents gift my first 3 guitars over the first few years but then I only bought 2 more for the next 13 years.

I've recently come into a much better income even with life expenses and children and have been much more into playing after discovering some newer artists and getting back into old ones. Now I have more money to buy guitars than I have time to play them - it's very odd how life changes that way.
I bought a 7 string last year - my first new guitar in 10 years - and finally realized the type of specs I want in my guitars. All of my guitars had gloss/painted necks and I realized I hated those and needed flat radius, ebony fretboards, and satin/raw finish necks.
Since then it's just been GAS as I've bought 5 more in the past calendar year figuring out what I really like. I need to stop now as I'm running out of space in my house for the guitars and my wife will want a bigger house. Most are used, only one new Kiesel on the Aries run. I've gone fairly deep into the headless world too I really like the small size.

My plan is not to keep all of them - I will probably recycle some of Kiesels I've bought on Reverb in order to fund new ones every few months and hopefully limit myself to 1-2 guitars per year moving forward. Plus now my tastes are very narrow and it's harder to find a guitar that checks most of the boxes. But if I see a rare guitar online that catches my eye I now have no hesitation to just buy on a whim.

This site is very enjoyable for me as I don't have anybody around me in person to discuss guitars anymore and it's hard to hold back excitement over these things; I really appreciate the community.


----------



## Marked Man (Oct 30, 2021)

bigcupholder said:


> There's nothing wrong with liking cars, but on a societal level it's extremely inefficient to require every person to own, maintain and store their own car. The average car is parked >95% of the time and most trips have only the driver with no passengers. A huge amount of valuable real estate (downtown or whatever you want to call places where most people go every day) is wasted on storing cars when people get there. It's objectively a really bad solution to moving people around cities.
> 
> Even if you're so distrustful of government to provide a collective solution that's more efficient (in terms of time/throughput, space requirements, cost, etc) there are private companies that operate car shares - you book a car with an app, drive where you need to and leave it there for the next person. It's significantly cheaper than owning a car (to bring some relevance back to this reply).



People make their own choices. Good for them. The government can't seem to remember this, so they often need to be reminded and sometimes shown this is still true. I have zero interest in public transportation unless I'm going to a major airport or event in the heart of a city and don't feel like parking my own vehicle, although it works for some to have no vehicle. Their choice.


----------



## Marked Man (Oct 30, 2021)

evade said:


> an uber or lyft? i find those to be more expensive. $30 rides on average anywhere I need to go.
> 
> Gas is $80 for me a month or so - we drive at least 3-4 times a day. Maintenance and registration net around $400 annually, tires $300 every two years maybe. *I think it's significantly cheaper to own a used car.*



So does anyone else in a normal situation who understands the maths.


----------



## Marked Man (Oct 30, 2021)

IwantTacos said:


> Gonna be honest buddy that last bit is a headscratcher



I don't know how to write it any more directly than that. 

I'm in that group in that I could live very comfortably without ever working again, because I understand investing, passive income, and long term thinking, including understanding how much money I need to stay afloat and happy month to month, and how much I generate. You could give everything I have to a bum, and he would probably live like a king for a few years, but then end up back where he was before unless he changed his ways.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 30, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> I don't know how to write it any more directly than that.
> 
> I'm in that group in that I could live very comfortably without ever working again, because I understand investing, passive income, and long term thinking, including understanding how much money I need to stay afloat and happy month to month, and how much I generate. You could give everything I have to a bum, and he would probably live like a king for a few years, but then end up back where he was before unless he changed his ways.


Plenty of people never have enough money in the first place to be able to live within their means, because their income doesn't cover their bare essentials, so end up in debt early in life and struggle to overcome that. Investing, passive income and long-term thinking all require some degree of disposable income, which unfortunately not everyone has.

Your post comes across as implying that people are only poor because their stupid and/or reckless. While that's true of some people, it's far from true of everyone. Hopefully I've misunderstood you...


----------



## IwantTacos (Oct 30, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> I don't know how to write it any more directly than that.
> 
> I'm in that group in that I could live very comfortably without ever working again, because I understand investing, passive income, and long term thinking, including understanding how much money I need to stay afloat and happy month to month, and how much I generate. You could give everything I have to a bum, and he would probably live like a king for a few years, but then end up back where he was before unless he changed his ways.



I'm referring specifically to this line : 

But it's simply stupid to pay more than something is really worth after it hits the open market. People who don't understand this will probably never be or at least will never STAY "rich".:

The idea of the millionaire next door driving a car to 200k miles is nice and cute and all but it really doesn't matter.

The only thing that matters is that is that your growth input greatly exceeds your static and depreciating output.


----------



## Electric Wizard (Oct 30, 2021)

IwantTacos said:


> I'm referring specifically to this line :
> 
> But it's simply stupid to pay more than something is really worth after it hits the open market. People who don't understand this will probably never be or at least will never STAY "rich".:


Time preference matters though. I'm not saying anyone should pay more than they can afford but hobby purchases like instruments are about the experience as much as the goods. Some people would certainly find paying a premium worth it to have that experience now rather than waiting an unknown amount of time for the "correct" price. If the gear's depreciation is so much of a concern than it's out of your budget IMO.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 30, 2021)

Electric Wizard said:


> Time preference matters though. I'm not saying anyone should pay more than they can afford but hobby purchases like instruments are about the experience as much as the goods. Some people would certainly find paying a premium worth it to have that experience now rather than waiting an unknown amount of time for the "correct" price. *If the gear's depreciation is so much of a concern than it's out of your budget IMO.*


And that's why so many of us seek out clearance deals ("new" display models / old stock) and mostly settle for buying used. Overall, I have spent roughly 50% of the combined RRPs for my guitar collection, which has allowed me to own more and better guitars than I otherwise could have afforded. Roughly half my guitars were bought new, but on clearance deals (20-50% off RRP) and the rest were used (40-75% off RRP).


----------



## Electric Wizard (Oct 30, 2021)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> And that's why so many of us seek out clearance deals ("new" display models / old stock) and mostly settle for buying used. Overall, I have spent roughly 50% of the combined RRPs for my guitar collection, which has allowed me to own more and better guitars than I otherwise could have afforded. Roughly half my guitars were bought new, but on clearance deals (20-50% off RRP) and the rest were used (40-75% off RRP).


Sure, totally valid to have a low time preference. I was the same way with all the expensive guitars I own now. I'm just saying it's not "simply stupid", as whoever the original quote is from is saying, to pay full price. If I can buy guitar X now for $1000 or buy it used in a year for $600 maybe it brings me more than $1/day worth of enjoyment in that time.

But yeah you get the insane deals by waiting. I couldn't own my whole collection without deals, but stalking reverb is part of the fun for me.


----------



## NoodleFace (Oct 30, 2021)

I had to put guitar on hold when I went to school and even when we first.got married. We lived paycheck to paycheck even with my wife's income because we bought a house we couldn't really afford. Through some clever job hopping, and getting into a great career (engineering), I make about double what I did 6 or so years ago, into six figures. 

I still live pretty frugally with my hobbies, even guitars. I'm not a pro musician and I just recently bought my 3rd guitar I now own. If I had more of a professional need I'm sure I'd buy more. I'm eyeing a 4th though..

The guys buying several guitars in the thousands of dollars a year blow my mind. But to each their own, were all just trying to survive and have a good time.


----------



## TedEH (Oct 30, 2021)

To be honest, I understand but also don't understand the thinking behind basing your purchase decisions solely on things like resale value. That value is only important if you actually plan on selling it. But I've no interest in spending my time flipping, so when I buy something I fully intend to keep it. And I can't justify spending on something like a guitar as if it's an investment or something. Once that money is spent, it's gone. If the guitar "loses value", that's not important at all, because - like I said - I'm not going to sell it. It's not _part of the market_, and so it's value-to-me isn't influenced by the market.

On that basis - my spending philosophy is that I don't buy anything unless I'm able to eat the loss. Obviously nobody wants that to happen, but point is that if anything _does_ happen - say it loses value, or gets lost in the mail, or is stolen or broken at a show, or whatever else - that has to be a comfortable/acceptable amount of risk. I refuse to put myself in a scenario where I'm now screwed because I was relying on the value of that instrument in case I needed money or something. It's just a long winded way of saying "anything non-essential should only ever come out of disposable money", I guess. Which feels like it should be obvious.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 30, 2021)

TedEH said:


> To be honest, I understand but also don't understand the thinking behind basing your purchase decisions solely on things like resale value. That value is only important if you actually plan on selling it. But I've no interest in spending my time flipping, so when I buy something I fully intend to keep it. And I can't justify spending on something like a guitar as if it's an investment or something. Once that money is spent, it's gone. If the guitar "loses value", that's not important at all, because - like I said - I'm not going to sell it. It's not _part of the market_, and so it's value-to-me isn't influenced by the market.
> 
> On that basis - my spending philosophy is that I don't buy anything unless I'm able to eat the loss. Obviously nobody wants that to happen, but point is that if anything _does_ happen - say it loses value, or gets lost in the mail, or is stolen or broken at a show, or whatever else - that has to be a comfortable/acceptable amount of risk. I refuse to put myself in a scenario where I'm now screwed because I was relying on the value of that instrument in case I needed money or something. It's just a long winded way of saying "anything non-essential should only ever come out of disposable money", I guess. Which feels like it should be obvious.


I agree with that sentiment, but I take comfort in the knowledge that if I did unexpectedly hit hard times I could probably flip my collection for *more* than I paid for it in a matter of weeks. It's also quite satisfying to know that if my house burned down my insurance company would have to pay out double what I spent to replace everything.
My guitars have significant sentimental value to me, so I would never choose to sell one. If I attempted to get into the habit of flipping guitars, I would definitely end up hoarding most of them and needing to upsize my house haha! My first guitar, a Cort G250, is rarely played but I take pleasure out of seeing it hanging on the wall alongside my collection of superior guitars (which are all regularly played).


----------



## Wucan (Oct 30, 2021)

TedEH said:


> To be honest, I understand but also don't understand the thinking behind basing your purchase decisions solely on things like resale value. That value is only important if you actually plan on selling it. But I've no interest in spending my time flipping, so when I buy something I fully intend to keep it. And I can't justify spending on something like a guitar as if it's an investment or something. Once that money is spent, it's gone. If the guitar "loses value", that's not important at all, because - like I said - I'm not going to sell it. It's not _part of the market_, and so it's value-to-me isn't influenced by the market.
> 
> On that basis - my spending philosophy is that I don't buy anything unless I'm able to eat the loss. Obviously nobody wants that to happen, but point is that if anything _does_ happen - say it loses value, or gets lost in the mail, or is stolen or broken at a show, or whatever else - that has to be a comfortable/acceptable amount of risk. I refuse to put myself in a scenario where I'm now screwed because I was relying on the value of that instrument in case I needed money or something. It's just a long winded way of saying "anything non-essential should only ever come out of disposable money", I guess. Which feels like it should be obvious.



Our preferences are ephemeral, so it makes sense to not hold too much attachment to what ultimately are objects. It's pretty common to regret guitar purchases, or not get the use you thought you would get. So keeping resale values in mind makes it easier to stretch your dollars in the long run. I've flipped dozens of guitars over the past few years... and I don't regret doing so one bit, because breaking even with them allowed me to try out so many different things without going into the red. I feel like I have a really good notion of the stuff I like now thanks to that.


----------



## TedEH (Oct 30, 2021)

To each their own, but my preferences are not ephemeral. Once I figure out what I like, I generally stick with it. I still have the guitar I bought when I was 16. I still regularly use the guitar amp I bought almost a decade ago. No judgment if your tastes change quickly, but that's not universal.


----------



## odibrom (Oct 31, 2021)

TedEH said:


> To each their own, but my preferences are not ephemeral. Once I figure out what I like, I generally stick with it. I still have the guitar I bought when I was 16. I still regularly use the guitar amp I bought almost a decade ago. No judgment if your tastes change quickly, but that's not universal.



That's kind of my approach. Guitars and amps/fxs need a purpose. When I'm buying something I'm also thinking how can/will use it, if there is no clear answer, there is no buying. If something gets in for a purpose previously done by other piece of gear, that other thing flies away to new a home.

I once bought a guitar because it was pretty cheap and in "like new" shape. Sold it 1 year later to fund my 1st 7 stringer...


----------



## STRHelvete (Nov 1, 2021)

So what's funny is I learned that to order a custom shop guitar with everything I want would run me just under 5k..and I kinda want it.

I sure as hell won't do such a thing but I kinda want it. Maybe when I can justify such a purchase to myself I'll get it but in the meantime, nah. I'll get the "LTD" version by buying an off-the-wall model and just modding it. Good enough and costs considerably less


----------



## budda (Nov 1, 2021)

STRHelvete said:


> So what's funny is I learned that to order a custom shop guitar with everything I want would run me just under 5k..and I kinda want it.
> 
> I sure as hell won't do such a thing but I kinda want it. Maybe when I can justify such a purchase to myself I'll get it but in the meantime, nah. I'll get the "LTD" version by buying an off-the-wall model and just modding it. Good enough and costs considerably less



The flip side is that if you do buy the $5k one, now you've spent the 5k + whatever the LTD ran you.


----------



## STRHelvete (Nov 1, 2021)

I could buy more than 5 of the "LTD" ones, literally. Nah. I'd rather have 5 good guitars that I don't mind banging around and experimenting on instead of 1 super expensive guitar I'd want to keep in a glass bubble and protect because I spent so much money on it and there's only one. But some day I might spring for the expensive one just to say I did. 

I'm using the guitar I have as sort of the prototype so I'm modding it and doing stuff to finalize the idea. I'm currently waiting on parts from Dean but when they get here I'll drop it all off to my tech and have him slap it all together. I'm looking forward to it


----------



## Church2224 (Nov 1, 2021)

I have a full time job and I own a business...

I stay busy lol


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Nov 1, 2021)

STRHelvete said:


> I could buy more than 5 of the "LTD" ones, literally. Nah. I'd rather have 5 good guitars that I don't mind banging around and experimenting on instead of 1 super expensive guitar I'd want to keep in a glass bubble and protect because I spent so much money on it and there's only one. But some day I might spring for the expensive one just to say I did.
> 
> I'm using the guitar I have as sort of the prototype so I'm modding it and doing stuff to finalize the idea. I'm currently waiting on parts from Dean but when they get here I'll drop it all off to my tech and have him slap it all together. I'm looking forward to it



I've felt this notion before, but I got over it. 

What's the point of owning expensive wall art (Or rack art?), I play all my guitars as I would a cheaper one. If you get a ding or two who cares, just be careful and play your instruments.

Also on the topic of the LTD v. 5k Custom, I don't think you have to even pay 5k for a guitar to outpace an LTD or an EII. 5k gets you some pretty luxuriously nice stuff, there's definitely a ton of fluff there among the intricate features and construction of a guitar that would cost you that much.

For me, I've wanted a Skervesen Swan for ages. No one else makes an equivalent shape and a fully spec'd out Swan would run me north of 4k - 4250k. At that point any guitar made to a decent standard would serve the function of a functional and playable guitar. But you buy certain guitars purely for things you can't get elsewhere, buying an expensive super strat can be redundant depending on your needs/desires.


----------



## soliloquy (Nov 1, 2021)

I haven't really been purchasing a lot of guitars over the last decade or so, so my messages a re little different. However, about 10 years ago, I did have two custom Carvin guitars, and about 15 other random guitars (mostly Korean and Chinese).

Now that I have more disposable income, and can certain afford more, I'm not really interested in any particular custom shop that will charge more than $1500. I know a lot has changed over the decade, where a standard Indonesia/Vietnamese/Indian/Chinese/Taiwanese guitar is now costing more than $1500. But even if the prices were lower, I dont really see myself spending more than $2k on a guitar, thus custom shop guitars aren't my thing.

I am, however, focusing on parts and upgrading the guitar to my liking, which is treating me well.

currently, i have the following guitars, and what I paid for them when I got them:
Taylor USA Acoustic - New $1400 CAD bought some 6ish years ago?
Edwards MIJ Les Paul Custom - USED $900 CAD shipped to my door from the states. This i bought some 7ish years ago, I believe?
Gibson BFG Les Paul - USED - Traded my Carvin CT4-24 for this guitar, plus got some cash in the trade. Got this some 7ish years ago? Not sure how much that would be now, but its used value currently is between $900 to $1400ish or so.
LTD EC1000T - USED -$1200ish, plus another $350ish or so in parts that i'm upgrading/changing.

Yes, i do have the option of buying more expensive stuff, and potentially even buying a custom shop that isn't Carvin/Kiesel, but nothing really out there that seems to interest me enough to warrant a custom shop.

just my stance.


----------



## Furtive Glance (Nov 1, 2021)

I work at a literal gold mine.


----------



## /wrists (Nov 1, 2021)

> LTD EC1000T - USED -$1200ish, plus another $350ish or so in parts that i'm upgrading/changing.



I've bought the EC1000T for about $300. Most used ones go for around $500-600...


----------



## Dooky (Nov 1, 2021)

I'm a pilot for the Australian Army. 
When I'm working I don't spend much money or have many expenses.


----------



## soliloquy (Nov 2, 2021)

evade said:


> I've bought the EC1000T for about $300. Most used ones go for around $500-600...



sadly the price in Canada is insane for LTD guitars. LTD isn't too far off from E-II. Where the LTD can go as high as $1900, the E-ii used can be had for as little as $1500, but normally start at $1800ish or so.


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Nov 2, 2021)

soliloquy said:


> sadly the price in Canada is insane for LTD guitars. LTD isn't too far off from E-II. Where the LTD can go as high as $1900, the E-ii used can be had for as little as $1500, but normally start at $1800ish or so.




I feel your pain brotha. I was looking at stuff on long & mcquade and saw that, plus gibson LP studios going for almost $2k now. That's just insane. 

Might as well buy a skervesen velociraptor instead for these prices.


----------



## budda (Nov 2, 2021)

soliloquy said:


> sadly the price in Canada is insane for LTD guitars. LTD isn't too far off from E-II. Where the LTD can go as high as $1900, the E-ii used can be had for as little as $1500, but normally start at $1800ish or so.



Yet a MIJ eclipse standard sat at $1200 + ship on a forum. L&m sells used ones for $1600.



thebeesknees22 said:


> I feel your pain brotha. I was looking at stuff on long & mcquade and saw that, plus gibson LP studios going for almost $2k now. That's just insane.
> 
> Might as well buy a skervesen velociraptor instead for these prices.



Or a used studio for $900-$1k lol


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Nov 2, 2021)

budda said:


> Yet a MIJ eclipse standard sat at $1200 + ship on a forum. L&m sells used ones for $1600.
> 
> 
> 
> Or a used studio for $900-$1k lol




lol *gasp! USED?! Scandalous! What will the neighbors say? haha


----------



## /wrists (Nov 2, 2021)

soliloquy said:


> sadly the price in Canada is insane for LTD guitars. LTD isn't too far off from E-II. Where the LTD can go as high as $1900, the E-ii used can be had for as little as $1500, but normally start at $1800ish or so.



I need to go to canada to sell my ltd m1 custom then...


----------



## Samark (Nov 2, 2021)

Dooky said:


> I'm a pilot for the Australian Army.
> When I'm working I don't spend much money or have many expenses.



Where are you based mate?


----------



## /wrists (Nov 2, 2021)

Samark said:


> Where are you based mate?



im not a gps or anything but probably somewhere in australia


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis (Nov 2, 2021)

Ok so I have a foolproof and simple method for affording high-end guitars.

1. Don't follow your dreams, instead spend 6 years getting an electrical engineering degree
2. Graduate during a pandemic so you can't do anything with your money except save it or spend it
3. Don't use your degree at all, instead be a software engineer because it pays more
4. Profit

By following these simple steps you too can buy expensive guitars (side effects may include depression and/or student loan debt)


----------



## /wrists (Nov 2, 2021)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> Ok so I have a foolproof and simple method for affording high-end guitars.
> 
> 1. Don't follow your dreams, instead spend 6 years getting an electrical engineering degree
> 2. Graduate during a pandemic so you can't do anything with your money except save it or spend it
> ...



is that the insomnium album your profile picture has with the song the killjoy on it?


----------



## Dayn (Nov 2, 2021)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I've felt this notion before, but I got over it.
> 
> What's the point of owning expensive wall art (Or rack art?), I play all my guitars as I would a cheaper one. If you get a ding or two who cares, just be careful and play your instruments.


This is my approach, too. But then I see how others treat their things and how they seem to just disintegrate in a few years... meanwhile I have cheaper items that have been used thoroughly and still last in good condition a decade later... and I think, maybe it's the best for them to not buy expensive things.


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis (Nov 2, 2021)

evade said:


> is that the insomnium album your profile picture has with the song the killjoy on it?



Yes it is indeed Above the Weeping World


----------



## /wrists (Nov 2, 2021)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> Yes it is indeed Above the Weeping World


good album 

yeah maybe i need to study software engineer life


----------



## Strobe (Nov 2, 2021)

Get engineering degree. Work way up to management job. Marry woman with math degree with actuary job. Have two income with no kids. Be to a point where you could (but would not) buy two custom shop guitars a year while still paying bills etc. I play shows live, but music is the hobby.

I actually do not own any custom shop guitars. Fanciest stuff is some BFR EBMM stuff - which are similar level, but a little cheaper overall.


----------



## bostjan (Nov 3, 2021)

Strobe said:


> Get engineering degree. Work way up to management job. Marry woman with math degree with actuary job. Have two income with no kids. Be to a point where you could (but would not) buy two custom shop guitars a year while still paying bills etc. I play shows live, but music is the hobby.
> 
> I actually do not own any custom shop guitars. Fanciest stuff is some BFR EBMM stuff - which are similar level, but a little cheaper overall.


Getting an engineering degree from a university where graduates actually get decent jobs is really expensive these days, prohibitively so. Companies are also less likely, in general, to promote from within the ranks of their grunts to management positions than they were in the past, so, I might have to append the beginning of your instructions with "Be Gen X. Get decent grades in school." and then go from there.

For the record, I'm old enough to have been able to take advantage of very cheap tuition compared to what students are expected to pay now.

Or, maybe just have rich parents and the rest will fall into place pretty easily.


----------



## Velokki (Nov 3, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Getting an engineering degree from a university where graduates actually get decent jobs is really expensive these days, prohibitively so. Companies are also less likely, in general, to promote from within the ranks of their grunts to management positions than they were in the past, so, I might have to append the beginning of your instructions with "Be Gen X. Get decent grades in school." and then go from there.
> 
> For the record, I'm old enough to have been able to take advantage of very cheap tuition compared to what students are expected to pay now.
> 
> Or, maybe just have rich parents and the rest will fall into place pretty easily.



Damn, I love the fact that education here in Finland is free.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Nov 3, 2021)

Metaldestroyerdennis said:


> Yes it is indeed Above the Weeping World


One of my favourite albums


----------



## Metaldestroyerdennis (Nov 3, 2021)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> One of my favourite albums



This may shock you but it's one of my favorites as well.


----------



## elkoki (Nov 3, 2021)

Through extreme debt


----------



## Strobe (Nov 3, 2021)

bostjan said:


> Getting an engineering degree from a university where graduates actually get decent jobs is really expensive these days, prohibitively so. Companies are also less likely, in general, to promote from within the ranks of their grunts to management positions than they were in the past, so, I might have to append the beginning of your instructions with "Be Gen X. Get decent grades in school." and then go from there.
> 
> For the record, I'm old enough to have been able to take advantage of very cheap tuition compared to what students are expected to pay now.
> 
> Or, maybe just have rich parents and the rest will fall into place pretty easily.



I mean, I am technically a millennial. I am in my 30's. I had student loans, not parents paying for college. My family certainly were not wealthy growing up, but I always had food on the table. I got in colleges I wanted to go to but could not afford - not that anyone should feel sorry for me, but my experience was more middle of the road rather than the silver spoon or rags to riches variety.

I totally get the point that college has become way less affordable since I graduated. My younger brother has a ton of debt and a less lucrative degree (a graduate degree no less) - I fully understand how rough it can me. When I graduated from my school (a top 10 ranked program), I was still underemployed several years. I did data entry. Did a job that probably did not require a degree. Later I worked a job that was just soul sucking and 80 hours a week. It was about 6 years after graduating before I had something I enjoyed and I could start making progress on debt. Though some combination of luck, supportive people in my life, and perhaps some talent - I am doing a lot better now in a job I enjoy most of the time. It allows me to buy some really nice guitars. Not bragging, just responding to the thread. I get that I am lucky.


----------



## lost_horizon (Nov 4, 2021)

Work in mining in the IT section, have 3 kids and a wife who works as a STEM teacher 0.6 FTE. Having a money focused working partner helping and guiding you certainly helps.

Got a degree in Forensics, 55% Underemployment in the science/forensics/chemistry sector, lots of jobs paying minimum page with repetitive work i.e. analysing urine or oil samples. Started working in mining part way through final year and been doing it for 12 years, moved into the IT sphere 5 years ago.

People don't really care about your degree, its more about your willingness to say yes, get things done and get along with people. Most of the effective management people I have ever encountered were tradespeople such as boilermakers and mechanics. People who are aligned with the team and business are better than people who just have the skills. Paid off my degree in 1 year.

Think about your job today and think about doing it rain, hail or shine for 30 years. Love my job and wouldn't change it. You will get offered other roles, think about if it works for you. Been in management, cost savings and project roles, been seconded into engineering. None of those were as fun, flexible and rewarding as my current role.

Have disposable income, paid off 80% of house, have shares/Bitcoin, own all our cars but don't spend alot on gear. Keep yourself to a budget but have a savings/gear goal and work towards it. Nothing inspires you more than grinding and knowing how much closer you are to your goal. Write it down, in the past starting out i worked out i only had like $5k of disposable income in a year if I paid my bills, mortgage and car payments. Acknowledge your limits and work within them. If I had bought everything I wanted and kept everything i would still have a massive car payment, Fender amps, bigger house blah blah. When you have or want something, do a check, is another $100k on a house/$30k on a car really gonna make my life better for the extra outlay and stress every week?

I have 9 other guitars, a bass project on the go plus an acoustic, I mod them, swap/sell pickups and do refinish work.

Going to have a custom 7 string made through ET Guitars https://www.etguitars.com/ and even with all the crazy wood options, true temperament frets etc. can't see it being more than $4k so basically a Gibson Custom Shop price for a dream guitar which i would never sell. When you buy a custom normally it's very particular to you and no one else would want it. Prepare to keep it forever, lose some money or have trouble selling it. Someone is selling an Etherial Azwen 8 near me for $2k so tempted. Lots of Lionheart/Ormsby 7 string guitars selling for almost nothing.

I think that plus an Aristides and my collection will be done.

Hope this helps.


----------



## redragon (Nov 4, 2021)

Credit cards.


----------



## Flappydoodle (Nov 6, 2021)

Have money. Don't not have money.


----------



## damigu (Nov 8, 2021)

redragon said:


> Credit cards.



My personal rule about credit cards is to never use them for anything I can't immediately pay off (not "I'll have the money with my next paycheck" but "I already have it in the bank"). That way I keep my credit rating good by using the card while never falling behind in payments.

You don't want to end up in credit card debt with a revolving balance. They charge 15-30% interest (depending on the card and your credit rating), and if you fall into that hole it is almost impossible to climb out without declaring bankruptcy.


----------

