# Lostprophets singer to stand trial for baby rape and 22 other sexual offenses...



## spawnofthesith

What. The. .....


Lostprophets singer Ian Watkins to stand trial on baby rape and 22 sex offence charges in November - News - Music - The Independent




> Rock singer Ian Watkins will stand trial accused of baby rape and a total of 22 other sex offences at the end of the year.
> 
> A judge set 25 November as a trial date for the Lostprophets' frontman at a hearing at Cardiff Crown Court, south Wales, today.
> 
> Watkins, 35, from Pontypridd, appeared at the hearing via videolink from Parc Prison, Bridgend and was told he will be on trial for up to four weeks.
> 
> Judge Eleri Rees, the recorder for Cardiff, denied an attempt by the defence to switch the eventual trial to a location outside Wales.
> 
> Watkins appeared in a plea hearing at the same court on Monday when he denied a total of 24 separate sex offences.
> 
> Among them are two counts of raping a baby, one of conspiracy to rape a child and one of conspiracy to sexually assault a child.
> 
> He also denies charges of sexually assaulting a baby and aiding and abetting a woman to sexually assault a baby.
> 
> Two women, aged 20 and 24, who cannot be named for legal reasons, will also stand trial with Watkins at the end of November.
> 
> One of the women has admitted sexual touching of a baby, one count of taking indecent photographs and one of distributing photographs of a child.
> 
> A jury will be told about her three guilty pleas at the opening of the eventual trial.
> 
> Watkins, whose band has sold more than 3.5 million albums worldwide, also faces a series of charges for possessing, making and distributing indecent images of children.
> 
> He is also accused of possessing an extreme image depicting a person having sex with an animal.
> 
> The oldest of the alleged offences dates back to 2007.
> 
> One of the two women also appeared by videolink. One was absent.
> 
> The three defendants are collectively accused of a total of 32 offences.
> 
> Judge Rees adjourned proceedings until August 12 for a case management hearing at the same court.
> 
> All three remain remanded in custody.


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## flexkill




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## ArtDecade

Jail is too good for this scumbag...


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## BucketheadRules

This is quite an old case and I've definitely seen stuff on it on here before.

If it's true (and there is a considerable amount of evidence suggesting so), then by all means he's a disgusting man and should be locked up, with the key shoved up his ass for good measure. However, at this stage we do not actually know if he's guilty or not.

Remember - innocent until proven guilty.

He is guilty of putting "meh" vocals on otherwise good music though. Never liked his voice much.


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## VBCheeseGrater

Damn, i'm not a fan but we cover one of their tunes...maybe not such a good idea at this point. There's alot of smoke here for there to be no fire.


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## spawnofthesith

When I was much younger I was a fan, but this shit makes me sick to my ....ing stomach. If he's guilty, there isn't a circle of hell deep enough for this type of scum


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## ittoa666

This piece of garbage isn't dead yet? So fukking disgusting.


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## Señor Voorhees

Sick bastard, if guilty which seems very likely. I don't get how anyone could .... a baby. That's pretty much the lowest of low. If people are found to be guilty of this shit it should be instant execution. Preferably quickly.


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## Cynic

i feel like there should be a specific prison tattoo for baby raping.


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## Nile

Little do you guys know he will be beat in prison and possibly killed. People in there don't .... around when it comes to child molesters and rapists.


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## Datura

Didn't know it was illegal to possess an image of a person having sex with an animal.


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## Esp Griffyn

Datura said:


> Didn't know it was illegal to possess an image of a person having sex with an animal.



Depends what country you are in. I've read this charge reported in the UK as Watkins allegedly owning and conspiring to make animal and child crossover stuff. He is the vilest of individuals and I doubt it will take the jury 10 minutes to find him guilty, if he doesn't kill himself before his trial.

I never liked The Lostprophets, always thought they sucked, and now they turn out to be paedo rock, like Gary Glitter.

There is an awful lot of these kiddie fiddlers getting turfed out of their warrens in the UK at the moment, the whole "Saville-beast" enquiry that started operation Yewtree has turned over many stones and found sick child molesters within the entertainment industry, many of whom appear to have been aiding and abetting others in a culture of being famous and shagging kids. I hope if there is a hell, that they will all rot there in conditions more torturous than my mind can conceive.


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## ArtDecade

Datura said:


> Didn't know it was illegal to possess an image of a person having sex with an animal.



Something you want to tell us...?


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## AndrewFTMfan

This has been all over UG news for the last month or so now....
Most messed up part about it, the dude's trying to clear his name..... but I guess until proven guilty? Either way, this guy is severely sick in the head if it's proven he did it in court. There is just so much evidence pointing against him.


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## soliloquy

its not just him. its also the band since they more or less knew of his ....edup shit but didn't say anything about it. 

and i can sort of understand some people's fascination with taboo...but this is beyond taboo...


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## XeoFLCL

It's okay, they lost their.... _touch_ 10 years ago anyways 

This isn't going to change my love for the first two albums though. I can't help it, even if the dude is a toddler toucher.


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## AngstRiddenDreams

I can't express how _....ing_ sick this makes me. I honestly can't believe a person would be this disgusting. Hopefully he gets his payback in prison by some big bastard who will rape him back.


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## downburst82

soliloquy said:


> its not just him. its also the band since they more or less knew of his ....edup shit but didn't say anything about it.




what do you base that on? I wouldnt just assume they knew he had this messed up dark side..I mean do all of our friends know what kind of stuff gets us off? 

Basically unless you know otherwise I think its reallly unfair to hold Ian's weird illegal shit against the rest of the band.


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## soliloquy

downburst82 said:


> what do you base that on? I wouldnt just assume they knew he had this messed up dark side..I mean do all of our friends know what kind of stuff gets us off?
> 
> Basically unless you know otherwise I think its reallly unfair to hold Ian's weird illegal shit against the rest of the band.



you are correct. i read the following wrong and thought it was accusing the band members of the following:

"whose band has sold more than 3.5 million albums worldwide, also faces a series of charges for possessing, making and distributing indecent images of children.

He is also accused of possessing an extreme image depicting a person having sex with an animal."


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## MaxOfMetal

If this is true, I can only hope that he's placed with the general population.


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## TheFerryMan

Cynic said:


> i feel like there should be a specific prison tattoo for baby raping.



something along the lines of "I raped a baby" written on dude's forehead, and as a tramp stamp.


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## Shredderboy1658

This honestly doesn't make me sick to my stomach like most of you are saying. Yes, I do find this completely ....ed up but look at our media. This kind of stuff us essentially all that we hear about now a days. I hear about this soooo much that it doesn't even make me cringe anymore like it used to.


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## Herrick

Nile said:


> Little do you guys know he will be beat in prison and possibly killed. People in there don't .... around when it comes to child molesters and rapists.


 
I've heard that pedophiles don't do well in US prisons. Is it the same in Wales?


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## Demiurge

Christ. It's almost like that so-called "Satanic Ritual Abuse" stuff bandied-about in the 80s actually happening.


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## MaxOfMetal

*Lets keep the baby raping jokes off the forum. Come on guys, where's the standard? *


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## Sikthness

disgusting. what a pathetic waste of life. He should be ashamed of himself. He deserves only the most extreme of punishments for his actions...

and thats just for his awful music.

He deserves lifelong torture. Anyone watch Game of Thrones? He needs the Ramsey Bolton treatment done to Theon.


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## User Name

ArtDecade said:


> Something you want to tell us...?



he cant, hes too busy smashing his hard drive.


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## tommychains

KILL HIM, KILL HIM WITH FIRE.


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## Esp Griffyn

Shredderboy1658 said:


> This honestly doesn't make me sick to my stomach like most of you are saying. Yes, I do find this completely ....ed up but look at our media. This kind of stuff us essentially all that we hear about now a days. I hear about this soooo much that it doesn't even make me cringe anymore like it used to.



Just because you hear this sort of thing on a regular basis, should not make it any less appalling. You sound apathetic.


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## BucketheadRules

There's some serious bloodlust going on in this thread.

I maintain, of course, that if he's convicted, he's disgusting and should be imprisoned for a very, very long time. That is inarguable.

But he hasn't even stood trial yet. There's a lot of evidence against him, yes, but we don't know if he did it or not. Stop posting "OMG TORTURE AND KILL HIM HE SHOULD ROT IN HELL!!1!11!!!" etc etc - aside from leaping to conclusions you're also (IMO) making yourselves look idiotic.

And if he is guilty, we don't have the death penalty in the UK, and that's good. State-sanctioned execution is not the answer.


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## User Name

tommychains said:


> KILL HIM, KILL HIM WITH FIRE.


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## Curt

If this is all 100% true... wow.

I have no words...


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## spawnofthesith

Sikthness said:


> He deserves lifelong torture. Anyone watch Game of Thrones? He needs the Ramsey Bolton treatment done to Theon.



This


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## User Name

Shredderboy1658 said:


> This honestly doesn't make me sick to my stomach like most of you are saying. Yes, I do find this completely ....ed up but look at our media. This kind of stuff us essentially all that we hear about now a days. I hear about this soooo much that it doesn't even make me cringe anymore like it used to.



i cannot agree.... I for one have never, ever heard of baby rape.


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## Konfyouzd

...? 

What the hell?


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## SoItGoesRVA

Well I mean if he goes to prison, what comes around goes around...


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## Konfyouzd

^Yea... Like IMMEDIATELY too if that's the one thing I can trust TV to tell the truth about...


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## Louis Cypher

BucketheadRules said:


> I maintain, of course, that if he's convicted, he's disgusting and should be imprisoned for a very, very long time. That is inarguable.
> 
> But he hasn't even stood trial yet. There's a lot of evidence against him, yes, but we don't know if he did it or not. Stop posting "OMG TORTURE AND KILL HIM HE SHOULD ROT IN HELL!!1!11!!!" etc etc - aside from leaping to conclusions you're also (IMO) making yourselves look idiotic.



This. 
If he's guilty then he's guilty. But till he is found guilty in a court of law no one can assume he is so the "blood lust" on here is over the top, and what you gonna post if he is innocent???? "OMG TORTURE AND KILL HIM HE SHOULD ROT IN HELL!! Hope he gets ....ed up in jail!!..... wait what? He is innocent? really? ..... well.... don't I look stupid....." Though somehow I think most will still bang on along the lines of ".... no smoke without fire...." if he is found innocent to justify themselves....


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## BucketheadRules

Louis Cypher said:


> This.
> If he's guilty then he's guilty. But till he is found guilty in a court of law no one can assume he is so the "blood lust" on here is over the top, and what you gonna post if he is innocent???? "OMG TORTURE AND KILL HIM HE SHOULD ROT IN HELL!! Hope he gets ....ed up in jail!!..... wait what? He is innocent? really? ..... well.... don't I look stupid....." Though somehow I think most will still bang on along the lines of ".... no smoke without fire...." if he is found innocent to justify themselves....



Even if he's found guilty, wishing death upon another human being (regardless of criminal activity) still makes you an idiot.

A very large dose of prison is the answer. Being executed by the state, who are supposed to be humane and not killers, is not.


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## Louis Cypher

BucketheadRules said:


> Even if he's found guilty, wishing death upon another human being (regardless of criminal activity) still makes you an idiot.
> 
> A very large dose of prison is the answer. Being executed by the state, who are supposed to be humane and not killers, is not.



Regardless of the crime I am and always been 100% anti death penalty and makes me sick and sad when people start with all the the "HANG EM HIGH!" & mob rule/kangaroo court b0llocks..... I am not saying anyone found guilty of any crime shouldn't face the full extent of the punishment they are due, but I agree with you about the comments, at best they are no help in what is a devastating situation & disgusting criminal case. Whether Watkins and his co accused are found guilty or not everyone thoughts should be with the victims and their families in this case


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## jawbreaker

I remember reading about this. Totally ....ed up, but if he's guilty, he'll get his own. Trust the justice system. That is the *ONLY* time I will *EVER* say that.


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## ArtDecade

BucketheadRules said:


> Even if he's found guilty, wishing death upon another human being (regardless of criminal activity) still makes you an idiot.



Yeah? Try being the parents of the children that he is accused of diddling. If he is guilty, death is too polite a sentence for him, because he has already screwed the chances of these kids having a normal life.


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## User Name

BucketheadRules said:


> Even if he's found guilty, wishing death upon another human being (regardless of criminal activity) still makes you an idiot.
> 
> A very large dose of prison is the answer. Being executed by the state, who are supposed to be humane and not killers, is not.



its not wishing death upon someone, its simply recognizing that someone like that does not deserve the gift of life. 

in this world life is a privilege, not a right. im not saying thats how it should be but thats how it is.


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## BucketheadRules

ArtDecade said:


> Yeah? Try being the parents of the children that he is accused of diddling. If he is guilty, death is too polite a sentence for him, because he has already screwed the chances of these kids having a normal life.



The whole point is - we are not the parents of the children he is ACCUSED of abusing. That means we should be able to look at things rationally. If all sentences were decided by victims and their families, where the hell would we be? Disgust is a natural reaction, and at first this can result in bloodlust etc... but we need to get over that and realise that killing people solves nothing.

The justice system should have the upper hand over the criminals. That upper hand should never have blood on it.



User Name said:


> its not wishing death upon someone, its simply recognizing that someone like that does not deserve the gift of life.
> 
> in this world *life is a privilege, not a right*. im not saying thats how it should be but thats how it is.



Direct quote from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights:

"*Everyone has the right to life*"


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## ArtDecade

BucketheadRules said:


> The whole point is - we are not the parents of the children he is ACCUSED of abusing. That means we should be able to look at things rationally. If all sentences were decided by victims and their families, where the hell would we be? Disgust is a natural reaction, and at first this can result in bloodlust etc... but we need to get over that and realise that killing people solves nothing.



As someone that that has dealt with rape, I have no sympathy for the rapist. If guilty, then he ought suffer. The damage on the person raped is never fully healed. So get off your soapbox and realize that not everyone is as "nice" as you are.


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## MetalBuddah

Why would somebody even think of raping a baby?????


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## ghostred7

I'll hold the innocent until proven guilty side of things...no problems.

I do NOT have a problem with the death penalty either. Pretending this happened in the US, I surely wouldn't want tax payer money keeping that ....stick alive in an already over-crowded system (partially due to lack of death penalty). IF CONVICTED he deserves nothing less than either state-mandated or by-parent death.

In rape/domestic abuse/child abuse/etc cases....I've always though that the best justice would be to lock up the guilty (again, can't be guilty until proven so) in a room full of the victims' friends and family. In the case of child related rape, the father, uncle, and brothers would suffice nicely.


Splinterhead said:


> I have a kid and this piece of shit human being (if you could call him that) makes me think very violent thoughts. Once you have children this type of shit brings on a whole new perspective.



^This, too


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## Splinterhead

Shredderboy1658 said:


> This honestly doesn't make me sick to my stomach like most of you are saying. Yes, I do find this completely ....ed up but look at our media. This kind of stuff us essentially all that we hear about now a days. I hear about this soooo much that it doesn't even make me cringe anymore like it used to.



I understand what you mean. With what we hear on the media these days it seems like they are always trying to "one up" themselves and to be as outrageous as possible. 

That said.

I have a kid and this piece of shit human being (if you could call him that) makes me think very violent thoughts. Once you have children this type of shit brings on a whole new perspective.


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## BucketheadRules

ArtDecade said:


> As someone that that has dealt with rape, I have no sympathy for the rapist. If guilty, then he ought suffer. The damage on the person raped is never fully healed. So get off your soapbox and realize that not everyone is as "nice" as you are.



First of all, I'm sorry you've had to deal with it. It isn't something anyone should have to face.

However, I will not budge in my views. It isn't that I'm being "nice", I just don't believe the government should have the right to coldly murder its own citizens on the basis of primitive emotional instincts and a slightly unnerving desire for vengeance instead of justice. Sorry.

You don't seem to have grasped my argument that the justice system should not be swayed by the anger and disgust of the victims and their families. If verdicts in court were decided by the father of a rape victim instead of by a jury, which is able to view the case far more objectively, we'd be in an ethically much worse place as a society. It'd be barbaric. The death penalty is not justice, it is revenge. Revenge solves nothing, in the long term.


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## ArtDecade

BucketheadRules said:


> However, I will not budge in my views. It isn't that I'm being "nice", I just don't believe the government should have the right to coldly murder its own citizens on the basis of primitive emotional instincts and a slightly unnerving desire for vengeance instead of justice. Sorry.



I can only hope that you will never be in a situation where you would have to challenge that belief. Society needs people to counter the views of others, just as experiences in my life counter yours.


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## Louis Cypher

ghostred7 said:


> In the case of child related rape, the father, uncle, and brothers would suffice nicely.



Though I appreciate where your coming from on this, statistically the abuser is more likely to be the father, uncle or brother

I still stand with BucketHeadRules on this one and his original point that at the moment Watkins has been found guilty of nothing and therefore all this talk of violence and revenge is a little pointless. I think everyone knows that everyone on ss.org is a decent human being and finds this sort of crime disgusting, but the threats against him are, imo ott.... 



ArtDecade said:


> As someone that that has dealt with rape, I have no sympathy for the rapist


Without meaning to come off as patronising, I am really genuinely sorry you have had to deal with rape in whatever way you have. I have a very close friend who was abused as a child by her step father and though I have no understanding (thank god) of what it must be like to live with that I wish you the best.


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## BucketheadRules

ArtDecade said:


> I can only hope that you will never be in a situation where you would have to challenge that belief. Society needs people to counter the views of others, just as experiences in my life counter yours.



I hope so very much, too.

I don't understand your viewpoint because I've never been in that situation myself (for which I am grateful - I meant it when I said I'm sorry you've been through it, because it really is not something that people should have to face)... however, I see my situation as an opportunity to look at this objectively - and objectively speaking, no matter how depraved and hateful the crimes committed (and this case seriously tests me), I do not believe that the justice system should have the right to decide whether prisoners live or die.


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## ArtDecade

I think there is a cultural disagreement at play more than anything else. In America, many States have a death penalty. I think 30 or more still have it on the books and available as an option. Seeing as how you are across the pond, we come from two very different backgrounds on this particular point. Although, I think we are more similar in most other respects. 

Its hard to debate this issue, because morally you are right and you have the high ground. Death is not the answer (most of the time). But I feel there are some cases where one forfeits their rights to live in our society. Is it an archaic view? Most likely. That said, I think it serves as protection against these acts ever being used on innocents ever again. Also, I do believe in rehabilitation of criminals... just not in the case of aggravated murder(s) or rape. In those cases, they have already killed or ruined the life of another. All of the criminal rehabilitation is not going to fix the damage done. 

Just my opinion - and probably not that of a lot of Americans.

[Edit - This is a difficult issue for me... so I don't think I want to have a full debate on this, but I wanted to respond in case you were wondering what my thought process is on the situation.]


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## BucketheadRules

ArtDecade said:


> I think there is a cultural disagreement at play more than anything else. In America, many States have a death penalty. I think 30 or more still have it on the books and available as an option. Seeing as how you are across the pond, we come from two very different backgrounds on this particular point. Although, I think we are more similar in most other respects.
> 
> Its hard to debate this issue, because morally you are right and you have the high ground. Death is not the answer (most of the time). But I feel there are some cases where one forfeits their rights to live in our society. Is it an archaic view? Most likely. That said, I think it serves as protection against these acts ever being used on innocents ever again. Also, I do believe in rehabilitation of criminals... just not in the case of aggravated murder(s) or rape. In those cases, they have already killed or ruined the life of another. All of the criminal rehabilitation is not going to fix the damage done.
> 
> Just my opinion - and probably not that of a lot of Americans.
> 
> [Edit - This is a difficult issue for me... so I don't think I want to have a full debate on this, but I wanted to respond in case you were wondering what my thought process is on the situation.]



Fair enough. I do see where you're coming from, just not a view I agree with!

I don't know your situation but I can see how this would be difficult for you to discuss, so no worries.


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## Solodini

ArtDecade said:


> Its hard to debate this issue, because morally you are right and you have the high ground. Death is not the answer (most of the time). But I feel there are some cases where one forfeits their rights to live in our society.


 
Not trying to draw you into a debate about it, merely jumping off from your view; I agree with your statement up to this point but the qualification of "live in our society" is crucial for me. I believe that with serious crimes which cause horrible harm to members of society should class as voluntary rejection of our society, leading to a sentence truly outside of our society: some sort of prison where there is land and basic tools for the populace to survive on without our help. 

I suppose that was Britain's plan with Australia, they just implemented it in a typically selfish way which disregarded the existing inhabitants, even over serious criminals, because the natives weren't white and distrustful like the rest of us. 

It would be interesting to see what sort of society would come out of such a system, both within our culture and within the culture of those criminals. I would be interested to see whether their views of right, wrong and justice would distill itself and lose criminality so we could see whether crime is more often the product of the subject or the social situation.


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## simonXsludge

Solodini said:


> It would be interesting to see what sort of society would come out of such a system, both within our culture and within the culture of those criminals. I would be interested to see whether their views of right, wrong and justice would distill itself and lose criminality so we could see whether crime is more often the product of the subject or the social situation.


Have you not learned anything from great movies like Escape from New York? 

All joking aside, a culture and society of criminals would probably really end up in chaos, especially with today's gang cultures and all.


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## flint757

ghostred7 said:


> Pretending this happened in the US, I surely wouldn't want tax payer money keeping that ....stick alive in an already over-crowded system (partially due to lack of death penalty).




For the most part I agree, BUT it actually cost more money to put someone through the death penalty process and there is the possibility after years of waiting that they could actually get off death row anyhow. It is significantly cheaper to put someone away for life than to put someone on death row. 

I believe it should be reserved for extreme case like serial killers, mass murderers and seriously twisted individuals (rehabilitation either not worthy or impossible). That being said, most serial killers are deemed mentally insane and as such we are not allowed to execute them anyhow.


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## VBCheeseGrater

flint757 said:


> For the most part I agree, BUT it actually cost more money to put someone through the death penalty process and there is the possibility after years of waiting that they could actually get off death row anyhow. It is significantly cheaper to put someone away for life than to put someone on death row.



yeah they need to speed up and streamline the process is cases where there can be no doubt of the perpetrator's guilt. The only issue i have with the death penalty is the possibility of mistakenly killing an innocent man. But in cases where there are multiple witnesses and a home video or confession, forget prison, take them from court to the chair.


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## simonXsludge

flint757 said:


> It is significantly cheaper to put someone away for life than to put someone on death row.


This. I always cringe when people insist on killing someone with their tax money, because they suppose it's cheaper and the right thing to do. 

What seemed to have happened here is terrible. Does killing the guy help anyone? No. All the damage is done. If he's guilty let him rot in prison. He's not exactly gonna have the time of his life there as someone who sexually abused a child.


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## purpledc

To even know that people like this exist in the world really makes me sick. I guess I should not be surprised by anything anymore but seriously what the hell is going on in some peoples heads these days?


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## Tone_Boss

looks like someone was taking the satanic $hit too seriously.


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## Thrawn

Ian Watkins pleaded guilty today.

Lostprophets&#8217; Vocalist Ian Watkins Pleads Guilty To Child Sex Offences | News | Rock Sound


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## ArtDecade

Thrawn said:


> Ian Watkins pleaded guilty today.
> 
> Lostprophets Vocalist Ian Watkins Pleads Guilty To Child Sex Offences | News | Rock Sound




_It is being widely reported this afternoon that Lostprophets' vocalist Ian Watkins has pleaded guilty to a number of charges put to him at Cardiff Crown Court today.
_
I wonder what they mean by a number of charges... I am guessing that he is pleading down or will still be tried for others.


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## Louis Cypher

ArtDecade said:


> _It is being widely reported this afternoon that Lostprophets' vocalist Ian Watkins has pleaded guilty to a number of charges put to him at Cardiff Crown Court today.
> _
> I wonder what they mean by a number of charges... I am guessing that he is pleading down or will still be tried for others.



Apparently he is claiming he was smacked out of his head on Crystal Meth and has no memory of doing it, incredibly his co defendants are the mothers of the kids involved


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## shawnperolis

Louis Cypher said:


> Apparently he is claiming he was smacked out of his head on Crystal Meth and has no memory of doing it, incredibly his co defendants are the mothers of the kids involved


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## Winspear

BBC News - Lostprophets' Ian Watkins guilty of child sex offences


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## BucketheadRules

ArtDecade said:


> _It is being widely reported this afternoon that Lostprophets' vocalist Ian Watkins has pleaded guilty to a number of charges put to him at Cardiff Crown Court today.
> _
> I wonder what they mean by a number of charges... I am guessing that he is pleading down or will still be tried for others.



I believe it's 13 charges, including attempted rape of a baby and possession of animal pornography.


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## Louis Cypher

BucketheadRules said:


> I believe it's 13 charges, including attempted rape of a baby and possession of animal pornography.



Just to clarify the Animal porn before it starts getting out of control



BBCNews said:


> ...Watkins pleaded guilty to attempted rape and sexual assault of a child under 13 but not guilty to rape.
> 
> Watkins also admitted three counts of sexual assault involving children and six involving taking, making or possessing indecent images of children and one of possessing an extreme pornographic image involving a sex act on an animal. The evidence against the defendant came from computers, laptops and mobile phones.
> 
> One of the two women charged alongside Watkins, Woman A, admitted the attempted rape of a baby after denying rape and two charges of sexual assault as well as taking and distributing an indecent photograph of a child.
> 
> Woman B pleaded guilty to conspiring to rape a child, three sexual assault charges and four charges of taking, possessing or distributing indecent images.



I am totally lost for words tbh bout this.... its totally fcuked up beyond anything


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## TIBrent

Sick son of a bitch. Deserves a painful life behind bars being passed around from guy to guy, all against his will.


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## BrailleDecibel

I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said here in regards of what we all wish would happen to the guy and his accomplices...it's just simply heartbreaking on behalf of the victims/family of the victims that everything got as bad as it did. I'm speechless.


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## MF_Kitten

I feel really sorry for the rest of the band. I remember I really enjoyed this song when it came out:


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## shawnperolis

Okay, I've never heard of this band before but I have to say that knowing this guy is a child rapist before watching the video made it incredibly creepy and surreal. Good thing I don't like terrible rap rock bands with DJs though.


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## Triple-J

Just read about this via theprp and found it incredibly disturbing that these events go back as far as 2006 I feel really bad for the rest of the band though because it's an ongoing investigation now and as more details come to light people will want answers from them and some will see them as guilty by association. Ex-Lostprophets Singer Ian Watkins Pleads Guilty To Various Child Sex Charges (Updated) | Theprp.com &#8211; Metal, Hardcore And Rock News, Reviews And More


----------



## Louis Cypher

Triple-J said:


> Just read about this via theprp and found it incredibly disturbing that these events go back as far as 2006 I feel really bad for the rest of the band though because it's an ongoing investigation now and as more details come to light people will want answers from them and some will see them as guilty by association.



Guess that's the inevitable next question as its been made clear how much was going on while he was on tour and actively with the band. Nothing else the police can do other than question the rest of the band find out what they know or what they can provide in way of evidence. Which is really sad for those guys as its already fcuked their lives up enough


----------



## synrgy

Lost Profits..


----------



## drmosh

what a ....ing sick ....


----------



## Esp Griffyn

Louis Cypher said:


> Apparently he is claiming he was smacked out of his head on Crystal Meth and has no memory of doing it, incredibly his co defendants are the mothers of the kids involved



As far as musical sexual offenders go, Ian Watkins is right up there as the paedo don. Good luck to him blaming it on drug abuse, if there is anything credible about abusing kids while taking drugs it's that the drugs lowered his inhibition control and allowed him to act out urges which were already present in him. Smoking crack doesn't cause memory loss - this is not an effect linked with amphetamine abuse, nor does it suddenly turn you into a paedophile, Ian Watkins has always been a deeply sick, perverse and disgusting little creature.


----------



## UltraParanoia

I'm a parent & this feels me with murderous rage!!

Lostprophets singer Ian Watkins pleads guilty to attempted rape of a baby and other child sex offences | News.com.au


----------



## Discoqueen

Shredderboy1658 said:


> This honestly doesn't make me sick to my stomach like most of you are saying. Yes, I do find this completely ....ed up but look at our media. This kind of stuff us essentially all that we hear about now a days. I hear about this soooo much that it doesn't even make me cringe anymore like it used to.



This is the first I've heard of baby rape, and I am cringing. Jeez, this is pretty bad. If he is guilty I just hope he gets to live out his sentence. I hope that baby is okay. Poor thing.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

Discoqueen said:


> This is the first I've heard of baby rape, and I am cringing. Jeez, this is pretty bad. If he is guilty I just hope he gets to live out his sentence. I hope that baby is okay. Poor thing.



He is guilty, he admitted it. The baby rape charge has been reported since this story initially hit the news when they were banging the charges on him, along with the extreme animal stuff.


----------



## Leveebreaks

I'm still struggling to take this in, it's such a dark day. I actually gave this creep a hug at one of their shows early in their career.

I can't see how he will make it out of jail alive due to the prisoner "moral" code that he will indoubtedly encounter...and as much as I would normally never wish anyone ill I am definitely prepared to make an exception. I just hope that the children involved don't actually remember any of this in the years to come.


----------



## Dethyr

This dude is going to get POWER murdered within 30 days of being in prison. There is absolutely ZERO chance in hell that he stays alive in prison for very long. 

This story is just so screwed up. I was reading it in complete awe. The fact that it's the singer from Lost Prophets of all bands threw me at first but what followed was just so friggin gruesome. When I first saw the headline I thought "oh boy here comes another story about some underaged fan that told a band guy she was 18 but she wasnt" But WOW... this is WAAAAAYYYYYYY beyond what I thought I would end up reading. I sat there going "holy f--k" with every paragraph. This is some severely twisted stuff. 

Anyways... yah, this guy is SUPER dead. He should kill himself and save himself from whatever crazy torture prison beating / murder is 100% guaranteed to be coming his way.

EDIT: Does it baffle anyone else that this guy was able to convince not one but TWO women to do this kind of stuff with their kids? That is nuts!!


----------



## Dethyr

MaxOfMetal said:


> If this is true, I can only hope that he's placed with the general population.



Gen pop, solitary,,, it doesnt matter where he gets put, he's a dead man walking. Someone will get to him at some point no matter what. Lots of people have been killed in prison for FAR less.


----------



## abandonist

None of you really know how jail works, do you?

It's not Oz. There aren't roving gangs of rapists filling out your asshole.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams

abandonist said:


> None of you really know how jail works, do you?
> 
> It's not Oz. There aren't roving gangs of rapists filling out your asshole.


Chances are they still won't treat him very well though. And I sure as hell hope they don't.


----------



## Dethyr

abandonist said:


> None of you really know how jail works, do you?
> 
> It's not Oz. There aren't roving gangs of rapists filling out your asshole.



Actually I have three friends working as prison guards in the prison system that tell me all about the way pedos are treated. And that is just regular pedos nevermind this nonsense. 

I think you are the one that has no clue how prison works. Were not talking min security BS, he is going to a MAX security facility. Sure were not talking roving gangs of rapists but I can bet my last dime that he doesnt last long in there.


----------



## abandonist

I'll take that bet.


----------



## Dethyr

abandonist said:


> I'll take that bet.



A high profile figure convicted of 13 counts of some really sick crap with the hard proven facts all over the media with no room for misinterpretation? You really feel that he is getting out of there without at least being beaten to near death? I find that very hard to believe. 

You might be right. Maybe he won't die but the rest of his life is going to be a really horrible place.


----------



## flint757

I think people assume too much about what criminals do and don't give a shit about or what most prison guards allow. At the very least not all prisons are going to be like that if any at all. 

I don't know why people think criminals have a 'code'. This isn't a movie about the mafia. Most criminals aren't sexual offenders either (as in previously raped or sexually assaulted someone). So do all criminals become gay upon hearing the verdict?

The general rule in prison is to not talk about why you're there and even if they did you could easily lie. Albeit a very public trial would make that harder, but it does show a misrepresentation of prisoner vigilantism IMO.


----------



## Floppystrings

Have you ever watched any of those prison documentaries on youtube?

This guy will be sent to a section with evil people, probably lifers that would kill this guy for a packet of ketchup.


----------



## jwade

Considering that my Grandfather worked as a prison guard for many years, I can tell you with absolute certainty that child molesters/pedophiles are treated as less than human, have guards look the other way when assaults occur, and are frequently (re: near constantly) deprived of all but water and the absolute bare necessitites required to keep them alive. They are monsters, and are not treated with an ounce of kindness. Many end up with broken limbs, repeatedly. Very few are killed, but they do not have a safe existence inside.


----------



## Dethyr

I have to say, I am still trying to process things. This story absolutely floored me. What in the holy shit is this world coming to when someone is turned on by a child never mind a friggin BABY... Ok there's a lot of guys that get turned on by girls in school girl outfits, sure, fine. But a BABY?,,, A BABY?? The shit that was said in those skype chats... just.... wow. I actually felt sick reading it and I have a strong stomach. 

Some people get turned on by poop,, weird as hell but fine whatever they wanna do, there's some real weird fetishes out there but to get sexually aroused by a BABY?? And then to give in to the urges and take it past perverted conversation.... to sit and plan to have a baby have sex with an animal while you give the baby hard drugs..... 

Now... take how we all feel sitting at home chilling out in our homes, then take that disgust and add the factor to being a lifer inmate, youve killed people, you are serving life and you have a baby or children on the outside that you aren't allowed to see and this guy gets put on your block of the prison. You do the math....

Lastly... what if this guy hadnt have been stupid, what if he hadnt recorded it, what if this all stayed under wraps and he wasnt caught. Can anyone actually picture where it would have stopped? Scary shit.


----------



## Louis Cypher

I think whats more disturbing in this story (if that's actually possible) is that the other people involved were the parents of the children being abused.... which regardless of the media about abusive and pedophile "celebrities", its close or immediate family members who are still the main culprits when it comes to child sexual abuse. 

Also all the talk of what will or won't or could or should happen to him in prison on this thread is hardly the most important thing out of this to be discussing, I doubt him getting fcuked up due to the criminals "code" when it comes to people like him will actually help the rehabilitation of his victims deal with the trauma they have suffered. Perhaps they should be the focus of attention and everyone's thoughts rather than the fantasy's of what will happen in some kind of late night kangaroo court/torture session in whatever jail he ends up.


----------



## Joe Harvatt

If I posted this already - sorry...

Here's a live feed from the court, yesterday.

Live: Lostprophets' Ian Watkins on trial on sex offence charges - Wales Online


----------



## Señor Voorhees

Ah, so now he's admitted to it. I wish nothing but bad things for the sick ..... I don't care if he was on drugs or not, that only makes me like him less. You're still just a sick .... who raped a kid (or kids, I'm not up to speed on exact details). Now you're a sick druggy .... who raped a kid. I think peoples opinions are a bit skewed on what goes on in prison, but that doesn't stop the fact that a lot of people (including those in prison) aren't a fan of kid ....ers.

I hope the kids end up okay, and I hope this guy at the very least has to trudge pointlessly through the rest of his life, being hindered by what he's done to these people. (ie:Never to find a job again, if he even manages to get out of prison. I'm not sure what kind of sentences he's facing.)


----------



## 3074326

We can only hope he doesn't get killed in prison, but rather gets beaten to within an inch of his life each time he recovers from the last beating. It's the only suitable punishment.. .... this guy.


----------



## simonXsludge

This really strikes me:



> The court heard how he sent messages to to one of his co-defendants, the mother of one of his victims, talking of how he wanted "to cross the line".When she responded with "A summer of incest and child porn" he replied: "Hell yes baby."
> He told her: "The sooner we start training her the better."
> And there was a conversation about "whoring out" the child as well as giving it crack cocaine.


There is no shame in this. These messages are glorifying their plans to absurd levels. On top of it all they are willing to put the child's life on the line by using crack to turn it into a sex slave.

I once watched an interesting documentary about paedophiles who turn themselves in before they could commit a crime. A lot of them are struggling with what they are and they seek for help. In other words, they feel sexual attraction towards children, but they don't want to end up harming a child. There's only a few places where they can go and get help, but they exist. So it's not like paedophiles have no choice to prevent abusing children.

Watkins didn't give a flying fvck about the human life he was going to destroy with sexual abuse and forced drug abuse. He was celebrating it. It's hard to grasp...


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

shitsøn;3819044 said:


> I once watched an interesting documentary about paedophiles who turn themselves in before they could commit a crime. A lot of them are struggling with what they are and they seek for help.


I saw something like this on Law & Order SVU once and a guy was teaching a teen how to control his urges and he gave into them and the older killed him because he broke his promise not to molest children.


----------



## Xaios

Regarding the treatment he's going to receive when he's put away, just remember that he's not going to an American prison. Last I looked, there haven't been an abundance of TV series centered around life in a prison in Wales (at least, not on this side of the pond). It might be a completely different setup with a completely different "code," as it were.


----------



## Basti

The fact that he so actively embraces this paedophilia makes me wonder whether he isn't more than just a paedophile (many of which, as people have mentioned, are ashamed and/or turn themselves in). 
That and the way he seems to be using other people to get to their children is...something else...might he be psychopathic?


----------



## witeter

Its a truly shocking and absolutely sickening case-as a father it made me feel physically sick. Whats so hard to comprehend is the women involved-has celebrity reached such a dark potential that people will literally do anything to be close to their 'heroes'? If his ex is to be believed there could be many more women he was doing this with-which begs the question; are they all perverted or gullible uber-fans who are willing to do whatever it takes to get close to their idol. Beggars belief


----------



## serch777

witeter said:


> Its a truly shocking and absolutely sickening case-as a father it made me feel physically sick. Whats so hard to comprehend is the women involved-has celebrity reached such a dark potential that people will literally do anything to be close to their 'heroes'? If his ex is to be believed there could be many more women he was doing this with-which begs the question; are they all perverted or gullible uber-fans who are willing to do whatever it takes to get close to their idol. Beggars belief



I think it's just the syndrome of the pop stars teenage fans; they'll see their idols as prince charming, and it's very easy to take advantage of that. Surely our society has its big degree of responsibility, but these guys just abuse their position of "power" to manipulate their fans. Very sick and sad indeed...


----------



## Triple-J

The bands ex-tour manager has spoken out and made a public statement which sums up how he and the rest of the band feel, Watkins' ex has given an interview too and she claims she went to the police to inform them about him but was ignored. Ex-Lostprophets Tour Manager Speaks On Ian Watkins&#8217; Guilty Pleas, Alleged Ex Claims To Have Warned Police | Theprp.com &#8211; Metal, Hardcore And Rock News, Reviews And More


----------



## matt397

I can't say much more then has already been said but all I hope for, considering he won't be sentenced to death, is that they put him away for life and not some 5 to 10 year stint. I hope he is in there for life, his presence and details made known to the inmates and he is tortured daily. The brits should bring back stretching and quartering just for this bag of sh_i_t.


----------



## flint757

Considering the number of charges I can't see it being just 10 years.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

Xaios said:


> Regarding the treatment he's going to receive when he's put away, just remember that he's not going to an American prison. Last I looked, there haven't been an abundance of TV series centered around life in a prison in Wales (at least, not on this side of the pond). It might be a completely different setup with a completely different "code," as it were.



While this idea of a "convict's code" is rather romanticised, it does exist to a degree. As mentioned earlier, many people in prison don't disclose to other inmates what their reason for being there is, but in the case of paedos word often gets out, and these inmates are at risk of violence, along with other prisoners who have committed crimes against the weak - elderly and children usually, and as such are placed into isolation wings. Ian Watkins has no chance at anonymity, and will no doubt be put in these areas for his own safety.

As much as we'd like to imagine the guards looking the other way, leaving a cell door unlocked etc, the truth is it's these people's jobs on the line and jobs aren't easy to come by in the UK right now. If I was a prison guard, I'd have to really, really want to see a paedo take a beating to make it worth giving up my livelihood and the ability to support my family and pay my mortgage. Wilfully allowing a prisoner in their care to come to harm is not something that gets them a slap on the wrist and off back to work, it's a career ender and could see them facing criminal charges themselves.

Not to say violence between inmates doesn't happen, it does, particularly when paedos are not on isolation wings, but UK jails are not free for alls where beatings, toothbrush shivs and gang bumming are a daily happening.

This sick .... will be locked in a cell for 23 hours a day, and will be supervised continuously. He will have little interaction with other prisoners and what interaction he does have will be closely monitored. He won't be thrown into the lion's den and the door shut behind him, sadly.

Edit: 

One of the links in this thread is to an article in the UK tabloid The Daily Mail. For anyone not from the UK, this rag is the lowest of the low and regularly makes practice of publishing completely unfounded articles based on hearsay and quietly retracting them when someone complains about their complete and utter lack of journalism. When they can't be bothered to do their own journalism, they just plagiarise content from other people's internet sites. The story this call girl is alleging might be true, it could also be a load of shit and I'd bet everything in my wallet that there is no police record of her ever making a complaint, because more than likely she is a kiss and tell hooker looking to make a few quid off a rapidly sinking ship.


----------



## Dethyr

Triple-J said:


> The bands ex-tour manager has spoken out and made a public statement which sums up how he and the rest of the band feel, Watkins' ex has given an interview too and she claims she went to the police to inform them about him but was ignored. Ex-Lostprophets Tour Manager Speaks On Ian Watkins Guilty Pleas, Alleged Ex Claims To Have Warned Police | Theprp.com  Metal, Hardcore And Rock News, Reviews And More



I'm not really buying this guy's account fully. I don't think he knew Watkins was an extremely sick pervert but I am willing to bet a lot that he has seen things that came close to or did cross the line. If he toured with the band for over 10 years, the bus and the hotels are big places and I would bet the TM saw a lot of underagers on the bus or around. He just doesnt want to admit it.


----------



## Dethyr

Esp Griffyn said:


> While this idea of a "convict's code" is rather romanticised, it does exist to a degree. As mentioned earlier, many people in prison don't disclose to other inmates what their reason for being there is, but in the case of paedos word often gets out, and these inmates are at risk of violence, along with other prisoners who have committed crimes against the weak - elderly and children usually, and as such are placed into isolation wings. Ian Watkins has no chance at anonymity, and will no doubt be put in these areas for his own safety.
> 
> As much as we'd like to imagine the guards looking the other way, leaving a cell door unlocked etc, the truth is it's these people's jobs on the line and jobs aren't easy to come by in the UK right now. If I was a prison guard, I'd have to really, really want to see a paedo take a beating to make it worth giving up my livelihood and the ability to support my family and pay my mortgage. Wilfully allowing a prisoner in their care to come to harm is not something that gets them a slap on the wrist and off back to work, it's a career ender and could see them facing criminal charges themselves.
> 
> Not to say violence between inmates doesn't happen, it does, particularly when paedos are not on isolation wings, but UK jails are not free for alls where beatings, toothbrush shivs and gang bumming are a daily happening.
> 
> This sick .... will be locked in a cell for 23 hours a day, and will be supervised continuously. He will have little interaction with other prisoners and what interaction he does have will be closely monitored. He won't be thrown into the lion's den and the door shut behind him, sadly.



But what stops the prison guards from feeding him his own teeth? Also very possible.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

Dethyr said:


> But what stops the prison guards from feeding him his own teeth? Also very possible.



The fact that a personal reprisal will see them locked up with the same people they used to keep behind bars?


----------



## MikeH

Hope he gets raped to death. No remorse, no regrets. He's a piece of shit. F_u_ck him.


----------



## Jakke

I personally do not understand the panicked rationale between companies removing Lostprophets' music from the shelves. Why should the rest of the band get punished for him being an ass?


----------



## Dethyr

I feel bad for the other guys in his band. These guys wrote the music, worked their asses off, toured a shit ton to support and grow their product and then their singer does this and not only broke up the band but completely firebombed their legacy, fanbase and everything theyve worked for. Ill admit I was a huge fan of the first two albums, the third was ok at best but I really enjoyed their early work. Not only does this shit wreck all that but it's likely to follow the band members around for a while to come. They won't even be able to use (former members of Lost Prophets) without people wondering if the singer is included.


----------



## wankerness

Dethyr said:


> I feel bad for the other guys in his band. These guys wrote the music, worked their asses off, toured a shit ton to support and grow their product and then their singer does this and not only broke up the band but completely firebombed their legacy, fanbase and everything theyve worked for. Ill admit I was a huge fan of the first two albums, the third was ok at best but I really enjoyed their early work. Not only does this shit wreck all that but it's likely to follow the band members around for a while to come. They won't even be able to use (former members of Lost Prophets) without people wondering if the singer is included.



Well, are they exonerated as not enabling him or turning a blind eye to it? Or are they like all the upper management with the Sandusky thing who helped to cover it up and thus rightfully also got nailed to the wall?


----------



## BucketheadRules

Basti said:


> The fact that he so actively embraces this paedophilia makes me wonder whether he isn't more than just a paedophile (many of which, as people have mentioned, are ashamed and/or turn themselves in).
> That and the way he seems to be using other people to get to their children is...something else...*might he be psychopathic?*



It seems likely. I'm more certain of it the more I hear about it.

As has been said, there are paedophiles who decide to keep it to themselves and never to act on their desires so they don't have to harm children, which (while I'm never ever going to understand their mindset or be anything other than repulsed by it) seems like the best possible thing they could do. I guess that if you're wired weirdly enough to find children sexually attractive there isn't a massive amount you can practically do to change your mindset, that's just how your particular brain works. But acting on those desires is a repulsive thing to do. He was no shrinking violet about it either...

He seemed to be almost proud of it, which is bad enough, but as you say - coercing other sick f*cks into joining you and offering THEIR OWN CHILDREN as infant sex slaves is just beyond the pale. I cannot wrap my brain around that, how can anyone think of that as acceptable? Or was it the unacceptable nature of it that made him want to do it even more? Surely a psychopath (which I reckon he likely is) would get a kick out of that... oh shit, I don't know. I'm not a criminal psychologist, I'm a kid on a guitar forum. This is too much to think about this late at night. I'm tired.

EDIT: I just Googled "psychopath definition" and found a couple of articles. "Psychopathic" is a description Ian Watkins seems to wear well.


----------



## BucketheadRules

Jakke said:


> I personally do not understand the panicked rationale between companies removing Lostprophets' music from the shelves. Why should the rest of the band get punished for him being an ass?



Well it's not as if they're gonna be selling much of it from now on, is it?


----------



## Dethyr

wankerness said:


> Well, are they exonerated as not enabling him or turning a blind eye to it? Or are they like all the upper management with the Sandusky thing who helped to cover it up and thus rightfully also got nailed to the wall?



People can hide things very well. I was once in a band with a guy that ended up ODing and dying. Yet he showed no signs of drug abuse at all in our presence. He was also apparently a closet homosexual which we also had literally ZERO clue of. Sure I was only in a band with him for a year and a half but we practiced 4 times a week, hung out a lot and played a lot of shows. 

Hell the drummer in the same band managed to hide CF from all of us and passed away a few years after the band broke up. We had no clue either.

Sure the guys in his band may have seen him with girls that seemed younger here and there but I am sure he was careful to hide his "other" tendencies. I am pretty god damned sure that they would have ousted him from the band if they knew even a bit of his dark side.


----------



## Jakke

BucketheadRules said:


> Well it's not as if they're gonna be selling much of it from now on, is it?



Which is of course awful. They might need to reform the band into something else.


----------



## CloudAC

This whole thing blows my mind. No words.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Put a collar around his neck, chain him to a post, and shoot him like a dog.


----------



## Discoqueen

I've never heard of baby rape before... that's probably one of the worst things ever, though. After that did he/she survive?

And I agree that despite this fellows (alleged) sick and disturbed offenses the cry for blood is a bit unsettling too. 'Life is a privilege .. that is pretty fukt. I don't think any harm put to this man would do any good, just more violence on top of what he did. 


_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

^ I Don't think the baby got raped, I believe it said attempted rape and completely off topic but how do I download the SSO app for android?


----------



## Discoqueen

It said they did something to the baby, 'sexual touching' or something.

Just search it on the app market thing? I think I saw an add when surfing on my phone, I can't remember. 


_Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


----------



## Dethyr

joshuavsoapkid said:


> ^ I Don't think the baby got raped, I believe it said attempted rape and completely off topic but how do I download the SSO app for android?



He did something sexual with the baby and also got one of the girls to perform oral sex on her kid while he watched on skype. 

....... I feel filthy just typing that. Jesus....


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

I've never had such a disgusting feeling from another human being.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Had to close this tab after reading it. Good god.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

Discoqueen said:


> It said they did something to the baby, 'sexual touching' or something.
> 
> Just search it on the app market thing? I think I saw an add when surfing on my phone, I can't remember.
> 
> 
> _Posted from Sevenstring.org App for Android_


Like Google play? I've tried multiple times and it brings up nothing.


----------



## simonXsludge

wankerness said:


> Well, are they exonerated as not enabling him or turning a blind eye to it? Or are they like all the upper management with the Sandusky thing who helped to cover it up and thus rightfully also got nailed to the wall?


Honestly, it is very unlikely that the band members, tour managers and crews they went through knew anything about this. And how likely is it that all of them would just cover it up if they knew?


----------



## Basti

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Put a collar around his neck, chain him to a post, and shoot him like a dog.



See, it's things like this that make me despair even further for humanity. Are you serious?


----------



## Hollowway

Basti said:


> See, it's things like this that make me despair even further for humanity. Are you serious?



If he's not, I am. What would you do? He's psychopathic, clearly, and needs to be taken out of normal society. I don't believe violence solves many problems, but I do think when one preys on the defenseless in ways like this there is a use for it. Though, I'm amenable to other death penalty methods, if you've got something else in mind.


----------



## Louis Cypher

Basti said:


> See, it's things like this that make me despair even further for humanity. Are you serious?



So worrying all this attitude and all this blood lust... only a short step on to vigilante gangs and behavior, and then that creates cases such as the man who was recently beaten to death and then set on fire because two fcuk wits decided he must be a pedophile because he was taking pictures from his windows of the kids in the street..... who it turns out were constantly vandalising his garden and house because he wasn't wasn't white/english and because he was also disabled and as the police had done nothing he was taking pictures as evidence.... but as it was decided he was so *obviously* a pedophile by the locals 2 of them beat & kicked him to death then doused him in white spirit and burned him.... or the case of the mob few years back on a council estate who got it in their heads that a pedophile lived up the road so they all went round dragged him out of his house and beat the ever living fcuk out of him in front of his wife and kids..... turns out he was a PEDIATRICIAN 

Regardless of Watkins & his co defendants crimes, which are disgusting and they deserves all the punishment the law can hand down to them, some of the comments on here I find are pretty disturbing. If you *REALLY* think your capable of taking another human being out chaining him up and shooting him yourself or torturing/beating or raping another person or any other of the billy big biscuit claims on here so you can punish this man and give him what he "deserves" then you need as much psychological help as Ian Watkins does, coz I wouldn't wanna spend time with someone capable of doing that to anyone. 

Or is it a case more of keyboard bravado and long as its done by someone else and you don't have to be apart of it or see it and can just read about it then that's all good by you and you can sleep safe at night knowing one more pervert got fcuked up or killed? I'm ashamed of some of this thread....


----------



## sted

No easy answer, he's copped the plea and gets sentenced next month, even if he gets a serious sentence its hard to see him doing more than ten years inside, while inside he will be separated from any general population inmates that will do him harm, lest his human rights be infringed (We wouldn't want that) then he'll be out at the age of what? 46 maybe? Less? He's probably pretty stable financially as well, hardly seems a fitting punishment and it does stick in the craw somewhat but we must be above the animals and not one of them, no matter what we feel towards them.
To be honest I'm more shocked by the actions of the women offering up their children to him, finding out some celebrities are child abusers is becoming an almost daily news story over here with Operation Yewtree ongoing but the actions of these two mothers is genuinely a new one on me, incomprehensible.


----------



## Hollowway

Louis Cypher said:


> So worrying all this attitude and all this blood lust... only a short step on to vigilante gangs and behavior, and then that courses cases such as the man who was recently beaten to death and then set on fire because two fcuk wits decided he must be a pedophile because he was taking pictures from his windows of the kids in the street..... who it turns out were constantly vandalising his garden and house because he wasn't wasn't white/english and because he was also disabled and as the police had done nothing he was taking pictures as evidence.... but as it was decided he was so *obviously* a pedophile by the locals so 2 of them beat & kicked him to death then doused him in white spirit and burned him.... or the case of the mob few years back on a council estate who got it in their heads that a pedophile lived up the road so they all went round dragged him out of his house and beat the ever living fcuk out of him in front of his wife and kids..... turns out he was a PEDIATRICIAN
> 
> Regardless of Watkins & his co defendants crimes, which are disgusting and they deserves all the punishment the law can hand down to them, some of the comments on here I find are pretty disturbing. If you *REALLY* think your capable of taking another human being out chaining him up and shooting him yourself or torturing/beating or raping another person or any other of the billy big biscuit claims on here so you can punish this man and give him what he "deserves" then you need as much psychological help as Ian Watkins does, coz I wouldn't wanna spend time with someone capable of doing that to anyone.
> 
> Or is it a case more of keyboard bravado and long as its done by someone else and you don't have to be apart of it or see it and can just read about it then that's all good by you and you can sleep safe at night? I am kinda ashamed of some of this thread....



 There's a difference between vigilante "mistake" justice and actual justice. You can't trot out mistakes people have made in attempting to punish someone and say that it proves that no punishment should be meted out. That's like saying that sometimes innocent people are sent to prison, so we shouldn't convict anyone. 

Do you have a baby at home? If not, then we come from two different viewpoints, and there's just no way we can see each other's side. If you do have a baby at home I'm surprised, because my gut reaction to someone who has admitted guilt to this, and who has planned further such activities, is to beat them up or kill them. And you believe that I need as much psychological help as this guy? That's just ludicrous. Wanting to beat the crap out of someone who abuses a baby like that is a very normal reaction. Wanting to do what this guy did is not a normal reaction. Now,would I personally beat him up or kill him? I have no way of knowing that. But I am damn sure I would vote to convict him if I was on a jury and he was charged with the death penalty. If that makes you sad, then so be it. It makes me sad that you guys are more concerned with how I react than this psychopath's actual crimes.


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## Hollowway

sted said:


> No easy answer, he's copped the plea and gets sentenced next month, even if he gets a serious sentence its hard to see him doing more than ten years inside, while inside he will be separated from any general population inmates that will do him harm, lest his human rights be infringed (We wouldn't want that) then he'll be out at the age of what? 46 maybe? Less? He's probably pretty stable financially as well, hardly seems a fitting punishment and it does stick in the craw somewhat but we must be above the animals and not one of them, no matter what we feel towards them.
> To be honest I'm more shocked by the actions of the women offering up their children to him, finding out some celebrities are child abusers is becoming an almost daily news story over here with Operation Yewtree ongoing but the actions of these two mothers is genuinely a new one on me, incomprehensible.



Yes, we must be above the animals and not one of them, but there is nothing saying a life sentence or the death penalty are not above the animals. I guess it just depends on where you stand, but I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the recidivism rate of pedophiles is such that releasing them from prison is only going result in them doing the same stuff again. So if you know that letting a guy like that out is going to result in the abuse and possibly death of a child, isn't that more animalistic than letting him stay in prison or killing him? I think it is. I think it's irresponsible to think that a prison sentence of any length is going to result in a normal person coming out at the end.


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## Louis Cypher

Hollowway said:


> There's a difference between vigilante "mistake" justice and actual justice. You can't trot out mistakes people have made in attempting to punish someone and say that it proves that no punishment should be meted out. That's like saying that sometimes innocent people are sent to prison, so we shouldn't convict anyone.
> 
> Do you have a baby at home? If not, then we come from two different viewpoints, and there's just no way we can see each other's side. If you do have a baby at home I'm surprised, because my gut reaction to someone who has admitted guilt to this, and who has planned further such activities, is to beat them up or kill them. Would I personally do that? I have no way of knowing that. But I am damn sure I would vote to convict him if I was on a jury and he was charged with the death penalty. If that makes you sad, then so be it. It makes me sad that you guys are more concerned with how I react than this psychopath's actual crimes.



I am not more concerned with your reaction than his crimes. Think your giving your opinions too much weight on this and to correct you, I never said no punishment should be "meted out", so I dunno where your coming from on that one. Also I fail to see who your version of justice as you put it isn't vigilante justice? eye for an eye? bit biblical ain't it?

What the fcuk does me having a baby at home have to do with my feelings and opinions on this? You think unless you have kids you can't be disgusted or appalled by child abuse? And not that its any of your business but yeah I have a kid. 

As I say fact that you think that the best way to deal with him is to have him beaten and killed, BUT your not capable of doing that sums it up. And there is no need for you to convict him as he has pleaded guilty so he will be punished hopefully to the full extend the law provides for the disgusting crimes he has committed. 

But if you wanna see him beaten and tortured and then killed so there is justice then by all means come over here and do it yourself... bring your family and the kids so they can see you do it so you can prove your idea of punishment is right in front of their eyes. Last thing I would ever wanna watch is someone beating someone to death, regardless of the reasons for doing it


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## Louis Cypher

Hollowway said:


> Yes, we must be above the animals and not one of them, but there is nothing saying a life sentence or the death penalty are not above the animals. I guess it just depends on where you stand, but I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the recidivism rate of pedophiles is such that releasing them from prison is only going result in them doing the same stuff again. So if you know that letting a guy like that out is going to result in the abuse and possibly death of a child, isn't that more animalistic than letting him stay in prison or killing him? I think it is. I think it's irresponsible to think that a prison sentence of any length is going to result in a normal person coming out at the end.



This argument of yours makes sense (not that I agree with all of it but I do agree in part to some of it) and is a totally fair thing to say..... so why all the bulls1t bravado with the beatings and having him killed?? Your totally right, locking someone up and then after 10 years or whatever just releasing them when they clearly have a major psychological disorder that is a danger to the public is pointless and something needs to be done, killing them all is not what needs to be done however.


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## wespaul

It always blows my mind when I hear stories like this. I understand that there are sick people out there, but what are the chances that two people with a proclivity toward something as heinous as toddler/child sex find, meet, and disclose it to each other?


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## sted

Hollowway said:


> Yes, we must be above the animals and not one of them, but there is nothing saying a life sentence or the death penalty are not above the animals. I guess it just depends on where you stand, but I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the recidivism rate of pedophiles is such that releasing them from prison is only going result in them doing the same stuff again. So if you know that letting a guy like that out is going to result in the abuse and possibly death of a child, isn't that more animalistic than letting him stay in prison or killing him? I think it is. I think it's irresponsible to think that a prison sentence of any length is going to result in a normal person coming out at the end.



Its a good point, like I said, in a civilised society there is no easy answer to such a horrible crime, we don't have a death penalty but to me they should be locked up forever if convicted, it's too easy for these guys to slip the net.
As he's copped a mitigated plea he wont actually stand trial either, he'll just be sentenced on the diminished charges.
Guy next door to my parents got his door kicked in only the other day as he had been interfering with his live in partners young son, apparently he has already done time for a previous offence as well. I've spoke to this guy, he seemed normal enough.
I don't have kids but I know what I was like when I caught a burglar in my house, that didn't go well for him so god only knows what I (Or anyone in that position) would be like if they ever got hold of someone that did that to their child.


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## Hollowway

Louis Cypher said:


> I am not more concerned with your reaction than his crimes. Think your giving your opinions too much weight on this and to correct you, I never said no punishment should be "meted out", so I dunno where your coming from on that one. Also I fail to see who your version of justice as you put it isn't vigilante justice? eye for an eye? bit biblical ain't it?
> 
> What the fcuk does me having a baby at home have to do with my feelings and opinions on this? You think unless you have kids you can't be disgusted or appalled by child abuse? And not that its any of your business but yeah I have a kid.
> 
> As I say fact that you think that the best way to deal with him is to have him beaten and killed, BUT your not capable of doing that sums it up. And there is no need for you to convict him as he has pleaded guilty so he will be punished hopefully to the full extend the law provides for the disgusting crimes he has committed.
> 
> But if you wanna see him beaten and tortured and then killed so there is justice then by all means come over here and do it yourself... bring your family and the kids so they can see you do it so you can prove your idea of punishment is right in front of their eyes. Last thing I would ever wanna watch is someone beating someone to death, regardless of the reasons for doing it



No, I mean I am all in favor of vigilante justice. My point is that you can't say vigilante justice is bad just because of anecdotal stories about the wrong people being attacked.

And I absolutely think that having kids vs not having kids affects how you react to stories of child abuse. Don't believe me? Go read the studies. 

And you're just arguing for arguing's sake to say that I should go over there and bring my family. Should the military bring their families to watch them? I can't have a discussion with you if you're just going to make ridiculous statements. I'd happily tell my family what I'd done if I killed a bad guy, though. Do you think SEAL Team 6 should not tell their family they killed bin Laden? Or does it not count because the kids didn't see it with their own eyes?

And my not being able to do it doesn't mean squat. If I were in the middle of nowhere and someone was choking and I had to do a tracheostomy I'm not sure I could do that either. If there were a doctor nearby I would much rather he do it, and I would fully support his actions. But that doesn't mean I don't believe in it. The bottom line is this: if someone does something to harm the defenseless I believe that those of us capable should do everything to stop them. That includes death, if needed. In the North Korea thread I also posted that I believe the world's superpowers should try to take out the DPRK bad guys and take over. Now, you say that death should not be brought to this guy, despite his reprehensible crimes. So do you also feel that no wars should be fought? If you are a complete pacifist, and don't believe one human should ever hit another, no matter what, then I understand. But short of that I just can't figure out how this guy's crimes don't warrant at least the level of response we use in wars, police action, etc.
Anyway, it's quite possible that I'm the odd man out here. But I'm surprised more people don't feel the same way I do.

Edit: I've got to check your profile. I feel like I've agreed with you in the past on stuff, and I can't figure out how were on such opposite sides on this issue....


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## Hollowway

Louis Cypher said:


> I think whats more disturbing in this story (if that's actually possible) is that the other people involved were the parents of the children being abused.... which regardless of the media about abusive and pedophile "celebrities", its close or immediate family members who are still the main culprits when it comes to child sexual abuse.
> 
> Also all the talk of what will or won't or could or should happen to him in prison on this thread is hardly the most important thing out of this to be discussing, I doubt him getting fcuked up due to the criminals "code" when it comes to people like him will actually help the rehabilitation of his victims deal with the trauma they have suffered. Perhaps they should be the focus of attention and everyone's thoughts rather than the fantasy's of what will happen in some kind of late night kangaroo court/torture session in whatever jail he ends up.



Just checked some of your other posts to figure out why we're on such opposite sides of something that I wouldn't think had more than one side. And I definitely agree with what you've written above, in that the attention at this point needs to be on the victims, stopping this sort of thing in general, etc. I'm sure I sound like a gun toting vigilante lunatic, given my vitriol about crimes like this, but given $10,000, I would put that towards prevention and help for the victims, rather than hire a hit man. That being said, this sort of crime still infuriates me, and the prevalence of child abuse and sex crimes in general is ridiculously disturbing. And I think those people should be removed from society.


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## Louis Cypher

Hollowway said:


> REMOVED



Deleted Hollowway's Quote and my Post - See ^ and my reply below for why


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## Louis Cypher

Hollowway said:


> Just checked some of your other posts to figure out why we're on such opposite sides of something that I wouldn't think had more than one side. And I definitely agree with what you've written above, in that the attention at this point needs to be on the victims, stopping this sort of thing in general, etc. I'm sure I sound like a gun toting vigilante lunatic, given my vitriol about crimes like this, but given $10,000, I would put that towards prevention and help for the victims, rather than hire a hit man. That being said, this sort of crime still infuriates me, and the prevalence of child abuse and sex crimes in general is ridiculously disturbing. And I think those people should be removed from society.



Each time you post something that just makes me go ARRRRGGHH you follw it with a decent and ractional post that I am happy to concede is just a difference of opinion 

TBH you sound American! LOL! I don't mean that as an insult mate, but I think thats the one area that divides the US and UK, we just don't have the ingrained culture of guns and the death penalty system etc that you have and so its hard for each of us to take on board that view of justice. As I say thats not a critisim of you or America, just poitning out a distinct cultural difference that is probably at the heart of this discussion we're having. 



Hollowway said:


> That being said, this sort of crime still infuriates me, and the prevalence of child abuse and sex crimes in general is ridiculously disturbing. And I think those people should be removed from society.



This I definitely agree with you on, and something needs to be done to safely remove them form society for as long as they are perceived to be a danger to children. We just disagree with how best that's done.

Time to agree to disagree I think Apologies if any comments in my post have been too sh1tty


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## Dcm81

Seeing as such a large amount of convicted pedos go back do their perverted ways after being released, I think the best solution would be to castrate them at the beginning of their sentence. And seeing as it is still possible (although extremely rare) that a castrated man can still get an erection if stimulated enough, they should remove the penis as well.
By the time he is released from prison his libido will be non existant as the testoserone production ceases after castration. In cases with sexuall offenders I've always wished for a more fitting punishment. In no way does this procedure have to be brutal or torturous - just a quick snip, snip like vets do on a regular basis.

With all the back and forth between the pro-death, torture, beatings etc. and those that are against such extreme ideas: I can fully understand both sides.
My first reaction after reading the news was also very violent and graphic. Although, as Louis Cypher pointed out, no one really wants to watch it happen or do it themselves. Even if you think you do......you DON'T.....I have seen a human being die and it was the most gutwrenching, disturbing thing I have ever expreienced in my life and no matter how hard I try to bury it I simply can't forget it. In that regard, I'm fckud for life!
The justice system and the sentencing can be extremely frustrating when you see how short the prison sentences for some pedos are but we also can't have the justice system behave just as evil, brutal or sordid as the people it is punishing.


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## Louis Cypher

Hollowway said:


> Edit: I've got to check your profile. I feel like I've agreed with you in the past on stuff, and I can't figure out how were on such opposite sides on this issue....



I normally do agree with you tbh dude, normally your posts are bang on! haha! 

As I say mate, nothing wrong with being o opposite sides on something that is clearly important to us both


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## Hollowway

Louis Cypher said:


> War is clearly TOTALLY different to what we are discussing here so why bring that up? Pointless. Bombing the fcuk of some country due to their leaders or regimes are guilty of horrific crimes against his own people would mean launching wars against more countries than you would have to act as your allies. But again, this has fcuk all to do with people deciding to take justice in to their own hands. If your elected government has the death penalty in place for certain crimes then fine, the law and the courts decide fairly that a person is guilty and is sentenced to death, or to life in prison for their crimes. That I have no issue with. I personally don't agree with the death penalty but still if that is the law where you have committed your crime then so be it. Fact is the courts and the government and the law makers are the ones CAPABLE of doing something to deal with and prevent these crimes. It shoudl be left to them. You don't liek the way they do it, vote someone else in who does.
> 
> Sorry I must have missed your PHD on child psychology and sociology in your bio..... Plus your point there is flawed coz I have kids, so you got me lost with your point, if you actually have one
> 
> Essentially though you are saying that your in favour of vigilante justice by the people. Those "capable" of dealing out the justice that criminals don't get in your opinion from the law? Is that right? Basically provided your form of mob justice by the people is against the right people though yeah? I would be really interested to hear who you would say are the people who should be dealt with by your version of justice?



I don't have a PhD in child psychology or sociology. But I do know that studies on the topic of child abuse (and other child related things) have shown that people who have kids react differently than those that don't. Now, obviously we both have kids, but what I was initially saying is that if you didn't, then we would be coming from two completely different places. But you do have kids, so our difference of opinion has to do with something else.
And it sounds like you very much don't like vigilante justice, but do support going through the proper channels of the government. I, on the other hand, don't really care whether it's the government or an individual who administer the justice. In my eyes there are wrongs and rights, and a government may or may not have laws to deal with them, and an individual may or may not have the ability to deal with them. I think I just have a much more optimistic view of vigilantes than you do. In my mind they are united with the rest of the population in what is wrong and what is right, and what the proper punishments are. In your eyes, I think, you would say, no, that's what the legal system does, and vigilantes have their own view of justice, which doesn't align so nicely with that of the government. 
Where we will have to agree to disagree is on the death penalty, because I am definitely in favor of it. I think the gloves came off when I wanted to do some vigilante justice, and you were totally against it. But I don't have a penchant for going vigilante, as I am fundamentally just looking for justice of some sort. If the courts handle it, then I'm totally cool with that, and happy that the system "works." I'm pissed if the guy will come out at an age he's likely to still offend, though. That irritates me, because like I said, the recidivism rate for these crimes is so high. It just doesn't make sense to not keep him in there.


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## Hollowway

Louis Cypher said:


> I normally do agree with you tbh dude, normally your posts are bang on! haha!
> 
> As I say mate, nothing wrong with being o opposite sides on something that is clearly important to us both



Yes, looking at this thread I think it's like everyone has left the party and you and I are still over in the corner arguing passionately.


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## Louis Cypher

Hollowway said:


> Yes, looking at this thread I think it's like everyone has left the party and you and I are still over in the corner arguing passionately.



LOL!! 
Last two drunks at closing time!! LOL! 

Regardless of how different we think its good to argue it with someone who feels as strongly as I do about something. Apathy is the worst thing you can have when it comes to this sort of thing


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## Basti

Hollowway said:


> No, I mean I am all in favor of vigilante justice. My point is that you can't say vigilante justice is bad just because of anecdotal stories about the wrong people being attacked.


A world in which vigilante justice is allowed is precisely the kind of world in which psychopaths would strive. Not that long ago, vigilante justice involved torturing and lynching African Americans.



Hollowway said:


> And I absolutely think that having kids vs not having kids affects how you react to stories of child abuse. Don't believe me? Go read the studies.


Absolutely. You said yourself that it's a gut reaction to want to inflict all sorts of harm to someone like that and even though i'm not in your same position, I do understand and in fact would almost expect you to feel this way. 
But this is not a matter of primal instincts - which are themselves the driving forces behind most violent crimes - it's about taking a life. Who is anyone to decide that one person should live or die? You and I have a life and so does he, like it or not a life is a life and there is no way of assigning a greater or smaller value to one rather than the other. You're not ending child abuse, you're not erasing the damage and suffering he's caused, you're just killing a living, breathing, thinking human being. 
If indeed he is a psychopath then it's much harder to speak for him as it's not something curable and, one could say, his very existence is characterised by a disregard for human life. But even then we can only act and think as humans, and therefore our punishment should also be human. For a human there's no greater punishment than deprivation and isolation and that's the way it should be.


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## Tommy Deaks

State sponsored killings and vigilante justice do not sit right with me, no matter what the situation.

If, for example, someone killed my girlfriend, or raped my child, I would of course feel an overwhelming desire to cause them an immense amount of physical pain, and ultimately death. But I would have committed murder, and be jailed for it. Rightly so.

So why the fvck should the state be allowed to do this?

People saying that he should be brutally murdered - would you do this yourself? Would you be able to live with yourself after the fact, after bludgeoning a man to death? Would you be able to sleep at night as you relive him taking his last breath because of what you have done to him?

If you answer yes to this, I think you are as much of a psychopath as Ian Watkins is.


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## Jakke

*Looks around for Explorer*

Vigilantism is of course not something we should strive for! This is because of the exact same reason that I am against the death penalty, which is that innocent people get convicted/accused. My stance is that I will rather let a guilty person walk than convict and KILL an innocent person.

CBT (not cock-and-ball torture, the other CBT) has proven very effective for people with pedophilia, so I'd say that we should do our best to help them in prison. If they are psykopaths (which someone capable of rape might very well be) the effieciency can be argued, but I do believe it is worth it to catch the people who's lives we can improve.


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## Basti

I think everyone should have CBT, from what i've heard it sounds like a cheat code for life


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## Jakke

It's apparently ....ing awesome, which is of course also why scientologists are against it


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## Basti

Whatever it is, if religious fanatics oppose it you know it's good.


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## Grand Moff Tim

Tommy Deaks said:


> State sponsored killings and vigilante justice do not sit right with me, no matter what the situation.
> 
> If, for example, someone killed my girlfriend, or raped my child, I would of course feel an overwhelming desire to cause them an immense amount of physical pain, and ultimately death. But I would have committed murder, and be jailed for it. Rightly so.
> 
> So why the fvck should the state be allowed to do this?



Saying the government shouldn't be allowed to do something because a member of the civilian populace wouldn't be allowed to do it might not be the best argument against capital punishment. After all, you'd be in trouble if you were to lock someone up in a room against their will for 10-20+ years, too, but governments in virtually every country on the planet are routinely "allowed to" do that.

That's not to say there are no good arguments against capital punishment, of course, it's just to say that that wasn't a particularly good one. 



Tommy Deaks said:


> People saying that he should be brutally murdered - would you do this yourself? Would you be able to live with yourself after the fact, after bludgeoning a man to death? Would you be able to sleep at night as you relive him taking his last breath because of what you have done to him?
> 
> If you answer yes to this, I think you are as much of a psychopath as Ian Watkins is.



Is this hyperbole? I can understand abhorring violence and how uneasy committing acts of violence, "justified" or otherwise, might make someone feel. What I can't understand is how anyone would think that not losing any sleep over killing a convicted and self-proclaimed child rapist is just as bad as raping children, conspiring to rape babies, and masturbating while watching webcam feeds of a mother performing oral sex on her own baby.

For the record, I'm not entirely sure about how I feel about the death penalty myself, and my thoughts on it seem to shift around every time I think about it, so please don't think I'm trying to convince you that you're wrong to oppose it.


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## Winspear

Daaaaaamn.


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## Louis Cypher

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Is this hyperbole? I can understand abhorring violence and how uneasy committing acts of violence, "justified" or otherwise, might make someone feel. What I can't understand is how anyone would think that not losing any sleep over killing a convicted and self-proclaimed child rapist is just as bad as raping children, conspiring to rape babies, and masturbating while watching webcam feeds of a mother performing oral sex on her own baby.



I don't think its a case of comparing the two and saying this is worse or that is worse, so the less worse one is fine if your reasons are "OK". For me with some of the comments regarding torturing him and so on and then killing him, as I have said, if you think your actually capable of doing that to another human being regardless of your motives and reasoning, then I would say you need help because you pose a danger to society. 

Psychologically speaking (having studied abnormal psychology) comparing the the acts of Ian Watkins to say an very extreme example, John Wayne Gacy or any other sexual/sadistic killer, is like comparing apples and oranges, but either way a person capable of committing either act/crime (extreme sexual abuse or torture/murder) is someone that has serious mental issues and clearly is a danger to the public, but for very different reasons.

Edit: just to add I think in general we are more socially aware and perhaps desensitized to serial killers and the horrors of war and the atrocities that occurred in Nazi death camps or in Bosnia or in the African civil wars in the last few years, obviously most normal people are disgusted and revolted by these acts but its easier to write off as it happens, its rare, so on and so on. The taboo of a serial killer is no longer as strong as society still finds the abuse of children. I doubt you would get the same reaction from people as this thread has if we were discussing a modern day Jeffery Dahmer or Andrei Chikatilo..... Hope I am making sense here


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## Tommy Deaks

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Saying the government shouldn't be allowed to do something because a member of the civilian populace wouldn't be allowed to do it might not be the best argument against capital punishment. After all, you'd be in trouble if you were to lock someone up in a room against their will for 10-20+ years, too, but governments in virtually every country on the planet are routinely "allowed to" do that.
> 
> That's not to say there are no good arguments against capital punishment, of course, it's just to say that that wasn't a particularly good one.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this hyperbole? I can understand abhorring violence and how uneasy committing acts of violence, "justified" or otherwise, might make someone feel. What I can't understand is how anyone would think that not losing any sleep over killing a convicted and self-proclaimed child rapist is just as bad as raping children, conspiring to rape babies, and masturbating while watching webcam feeds of a mother performing oral sex on her own baby.
> 
> For the record, I'm not entirely sure about how I feel about the death penalty myself, and my thoughts on it seem to shift around every time I think about it, so please don't think I'm trying to convince you that you're wrong to oppose it.



Perhaps it's not the best argument, I can see where you are coming from. But ultimately my point was, I think a state funded execution is murder in the same sense that someone going vigilante on a paedophile and killing them is murder. I don't think it is any humans place to decide that anyone should die, with the exception of people turning off a life support machine, suicide or assisted suicide. 

The difference with the imprisonment argument you raised is that I think it is generally accepted that the state imprisoning someone who is a danger to the public is reasonable. Imprisonment has to happen for the safety of others - killing someone doesn't.

I will never understand how in this day and age 'eye for an eye' has its place. I just personally find it very sad. 

Also, perhaps baby rape slightly tips cold blooded murder on the psychopath scale, you are right. But killing someone, rapist or not, in cold blood and then being completely at ease with that is not normal. We are talking about ending a human's life. Maybe I was exaggerating slightly - but I think you would still be a psychopath if you were to act as I said above.

And don't worry man - I don't think you are trying to sway my beliefs - they won't change on this issue, but it's just discussion on the internet. No offence taken or anything!

All of this is not to say that I don't think Ian Watkins should be brought to justice. I think he should rot in prison until the day he dies.


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## Grand Moff Tim

Louis Cypher said:


> I don't think its a case of comparing the two and saying this is worse or that is worse, so the less worse one is fine if your reasons are "OK". For me with some of the comments regarding torturing him and so on and then killing him, as I have said, if you think your actually capable of doing that to another human being regardless of your motives and reasoning, then I would say you need help because you pose a danger to society.



Yeah, I wasn't trying to imply that, given a case of two bad things, one of them is "fine" if the other one is worse. I obviously _haven't_ studied psychology (apart from an intro class in High School a million years ago ), but I was under the impression that psychosis/being psychotic comes in degrees, rather then being just an On/Off situation where you're either balls-out psychotic or not psychotic at all. Assuming that's the case, it just seemed odd to me to claim a person who could sleep soundly after killing a self-proclaimed child rapist is just as psychotic as a person who [insert all the nastiness I typed earlier that I can't type again without dying a little inside]. 'S all I was sayin'.

I do think someone who's capable of straight murderizing any-ol'-body brutally and without discretion could be as far or nearly as far up the psycho totem pole as the child defiler, but I distinguish between that sort of murderer and someone who would take the life of such a wretched human being. Again, that's not to say I'm convinced that taking that person's life would absolutely be A-O-Kay, but I don't see killing in that case as being _as reprehensible as_ something more indiscriminate or depraved.


----------



## Jakke

Tommy Deaks said:


> I will never understand how in this day and age 'eye for an eye' has its place. I just personally find it very sad.



There is also the philosophical paradox of the death penalty:
The society is everyone who lives in it. Legal punishment is society extracting vengeance from someone who has wronged an individual in it. Capital punishment is usually for people sentenced for the most severe crimes, such as murder. If capital punishment is excercised, innocent people will be convicted, and capital punishment is non-reversable. Killing someone who is innocent is murder, therefore everyone is guilty of murder if someone is wrongfully executed, and are also deserving of the death penalty


----------



## Grand Moff Tim

Jakke said:


> There is also the philosophical paradox of the death penalty:
> The society is everyone who lives in it. Legal punishment is society extracting vengeance from someone who has wronged an individual in it. Capital punishment is usually for people sentenced for the most severe crimes, such as murder. If capital punishment is excercised, innocent people will be convicted, and capital punishment is non-reversable. Killing someone who is innocent is murder, therefore everyone is guilty of murder if someone is wrongfully executed, and are also deserving of the death penalty



Would people who use that paradox as a reason to abolish the death penalty be fine with capital punishment if it were only ever used in cases where there is irrefutable proof of the accused's guilt? Or would such a discussion just devolve into an argument over what would or wouldn't constitute irrefutable proof of guilt...


----------



## Louis Cypher

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Yeah, I wasn't trying to imply that, given a case of two bad things, one of them is "fine" if the other one is worse. I obviously _haven't_ studied psychology (apart from an intro class in High School a million years ago ), but I was under the impression that psychosis/being psychotic comes in degrees, rather then being just an On/Off situation where you're either balls-out psychotic or not psychotic at all. Assuming that's the case, it just seemed odd to me to claim a person who could sleep soundly after killing a self-proclaimed child rapist is just as psychotic as a person who [insert all the nastiness I typed earlier that I can't type again without dying a little inside]. 'S all I was sayin'.
> 
> I do think someone who's capable of straight murderizing any-ol'-body brutally and without discretion could be as far or nearly as far up the psycho totem pole as the child defiler, but I distinguish between that sort of murderer and someone who would take the life of such a wretched human being. Again, that's not to say I'm convinced that taking that person's life would absolutely be A-O-Kay, but I don't see killing in that case as being _as reprehensible as_ something more indiscriminate or depraved.



Totally get where you are coming from, and your right the reason for doing something does demonstrate where your at on the looney scale. A crime of passion so to speak is clearly not as "bad" for want of a better word in most peoples eyes as a premeditated murder as people may have sympathy or understand someones motives with a crime of passion even though they deploy the act. Regardless of how sick mentally someone is or how much they may have suffered the same abuse as a child themselves, its extremely hard to be sympathetic with these people the more depraved the crime, especially if children are invovled. Your right too it's not an On/Off thing, it is way more complicated than that. I was simplifying incredibly and tbf its been long ar$e time since I studied it in any detail! LOL!

It is a mentally complicated issue everyone's feeling on this case and others like it. And perhaps for myself I have taken the burning torches/hope he gets raped and fcuked up etc etc comments too serious, but then I would add that perhaps those who posted those sorts of comments haven't stepped back to think a little on what they are really advocating and saying before posting.


----------



## Louis Cypher

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Or would such a discussion just devolve into an argument over what would or wouldn't constitute irrefutable proof of guilt...



I think this is more likely


----------



## Basti

Whenever there's a discussion about the death penalty I can't help imagining it happening on the gallows where there's some guy with a noose around his neck looking frantically from left to right as two people are deciding his fate. All their rhetoric, their vast culture and brilliant philosophical speculations don't mean anything to this man, as he repents over and over, he knows he killed a man but he's willing to carry the world to redeem himself just so long as they shut up and tell him he can live.

I don't know if that has any effect, but perhaps the point of this is empathy and perhaps that's not such a bad thing.



Grand Moff Tim said:


> Yeah, I wasn't trying to imply that, given a case of two bad things, one of them is "fine" if the other one is worse. I obviously _haven't_ studied psychology (apart from an intro class in High School a million years ago ), but I was under the impression that psychosis/being psychotic comes in degrees, rather then being just an On/Off situation where you're either balls-out psychotic or not psychotic at all. Assuming that's the case, it just seemed odd to me to claim a person who could sleep soundly after killing a self-proclaimed child rapist is just as psychotic as a person who [insert all the nastiness I typed earlier that I can't type again without dying a little inside]. 'S all I was sayin'.
> 
> I do think someone who's capable of straight murderizing any-ol'-body brutally and without discretion could be as far or nearly as far up the psycho totem pole as the child defiler, but I distinguish between that sort of murderer and someone who would take the life of such a wretched human being. Again, that's not to say I'm convinced that taking that person's life would absolutely be A-O-Kay, but I don't see killing in that case as being _as reprehensible as_ something more indiscriminate or depraved.



(I'll just correct you on a couple of points if'n you don't mind )
Being psychotic is very different, it's an umbrella term used to define a whole set of abnormalities and yes it goes in degrees. Psychopaths/ sociopaths i almost consider to be their own separate category of people, there don't seem to be many varying degrees to the condition although the results range from anything from purposefully neglectful nurses to full-out serial killers. The bottom line is that they simply don't empathise, they're curious about death just like everyone else except they have no innate aversion to exploring it fully i.e. by butchering animals and committing murder (that's my understanding at least).


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Basti said:


> See, it's things like this that make me despair even further for humanity. Are you serious?



I'd rather have the death penalty. IMO it seems better as opposed to a prisoner sitting in a comfy prison for years while everyone else waxes philosophical about whether or not we should kill a killer.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm not sure what the time is in the UK, but in the US, the average time on death row is about 13 - 15 years, and times are getting longer, so that's... not really a hurry.


----------



## Basti

Captain Butterscotch said:


> I'd rather have the death penalty. IMO it seems better as opposed to a prisoner sitting in a comfy prison for years while everyone else waxes philosophical about whether or not we should kill a killer.



But if we should kill a killer then we should kill the killer of the killer, and so on...the deindividuated circumstance of having a government do it doesn't make it any better (although i should clarify that i admittedly have very low regard for such institutions anyway). 



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm not sure what the time is in the UK, but in the US, the average time on death row is about 13 - 15 years, and times are getting longer, so that's... not really a hurry.



As far as i know there hasn't been anyone waiting in the Tower of London for quite some time, we seem to get on well enough without guns or the death penalty


----------



## wankerness

Captain Butterscotch said:


> I'd rather have the death penalty. IMO it seems better as opposed to a prisoner sitting in a comfy prison for years while everyone else waxes philosophical about whether or not we should kill a killer.



Iirc the money spent on people on death row is way, way more than the money spent on people who are away for life without parole due to the tons of appeals and shit that they always go through. Plus, it's not like maximum security prisons are comfy. Especially not for extremely famous child rapists. That guy's life would be a living hell.


----------



## Basti

wankerness said:


> That guy's life would be a living hell.


And this is more akin to things taking their natural course in my opinion


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## Discoqueen

In a system like ours (American, for me) we put convicts behind bars for two reasons: to protect the rest of society from people that have shown that they are capable of bad things, and to hopefully (while they are incarcerated) rehabilitate them. Since he is not going to be committing those nasty terrible sex crimes any more in prison, the only reason to kill him would be to extract revenge. Revenge that would only cause more hurt in the world. Call me a hippy, but if he isn't going to be hurting anyone anymore I think it should be fine to let him serve his life sentence. I certainly don't think he will have a good life anymore. I totally understand why people want this guy's head on a stick. Maybe if it was my niece and nephew made victim I would be the one calling for blood, but since we aren't the victims maybe we can be a little more collected. Somebody would have to put him down, a mother and father would have to bury their son and friends and family and victims would never have anyone to confront later on if they need to to help them on their journey to healing.


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## Captain Butterscotch

Bah, I just typed out a novel but thought against it. It's futile to argue for capital punishment (among other things) anywhere in the vicinity of this forum and I really don't like debate anyway. Plus, I really didn't set myself up well when I made a quick post with my iPhone earlier  Let's just all agree that this guy is a sick .....


----------



## abandonist

I have no qualms with killing someone myself. But I have no want for this dude's death. Nothing to do with me or my people. Let the justice system handle him.


----------



## Basti

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Bah, I just typed out a novel but thought against it. It's futile to argue for capital punishment (among other things) anywhere in the vicinity of this forum and I really don't like debate anyway. Plus, I really didn't set myself up well when I made a quick post with my iPhone earlier  Let's just all agree that this guy is a sick .....



Muahaha, it would seem you have been bested this time around. Until we meet again, Captain Butterscotch! Hm'good day'hmhm.


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## JoshuaVonFlash

Why do they let rapist of any kind back out into public it's not like he's a drug dealer or thief those people usually do it because they have no other choice, and they need to eat and have a home, while rapist have a mental element behind their crimes and a stint in jail doesn't solve that they need to put into mental institution for life, it's a much better solution than then letting them back out.


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## abandonist

You could say the same thing about a whole host of mental illness'. 

But you don't. Because that would be dumb.


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## Dethyr

I'll take it back, I think the bad things that are going to happen to him will happen after prison. Sure prison MIGHT protect him but in the outside world, good luck with that. If someone doesn't kill the guy, he is certain to live a VERY lonely life unless he changes his name, appearance and moves to somewhere very very far away from the UK


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## lucasreis

I read all of the comments in this thread and I wanted to weight my opinion on this matter. I'll have a kid soon, my wife is pregnant, I still don't have a baby in my house but I already care a lot for my son (or daughter, still don't know which lol). I also have a dog and I care a lot for her. I despise any kind of violence, being sexual or not, against children, animals and elderly people (well, also against adults, I'm just not into violence), but when it involved children, animals or elderly people, I get more pissed, because they have obvious disadvantages when facing stronger adults and people like that. 

That said, I despised what Ian did, and I used to be pro death penalty. Until I saw a video this year, it was brutal, it involved street justice, like a vigilante kind of thing, where people brutally beat a man, dragged him down with a cord, shot him and set him on fire. Just remembering this video makes me sad, it makes me want to cry, I felt a brutal empathy with the individual as I watched it and I felt depressed for a long time. And this guy was a murderer, and a rapist, and they did this to punish him. At the end of the day, I thought they were worse, or just as much as scum as this guy was. But he cried, he asked for mercy, and they gave him no mercy, they laughed... they were brutal, just as brutal as he was, and seeing that made me feel sad for humanity, and even worse when I saw a lot of people supporting it and saying they would do the same, I felt really, really scared. 

And my pro death penalty view was gone. Ian did nasty things, he deserves punishment, but I would never kill a guy like him, nor would I kill anyone... I guess I would only kill a human being in self defense, just as I would kill an animal in self defense as well. I know state-death penalties are not as brutal as what I saw, but I can't help but think it's not the right path. 

I agree with the people who said this guy should be castrated, that would be the best punishment for him. I also think it's brutal, but it would be best if they took his "gun" away and the testosterone would cease to exist, and all that. Sorry for the long rant, no one has to agree with me on this, I just wanted to share. We are a beautiful community with intelligent people and all sorts of musicians and artists and I think that music elevates us, I think we're better than that, we don't need gratuituous violence, we don't need to preach violence against individuals, as worse as they might be.


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## Hollowway

Lots to read since I last posted in here! It's become apparent that I have a very different view of what a vigilante is than most of you. For whatever reason my vision of a vigilante is much more noble and glorified. I picture Spider-man, who was considered a vigilante, because he is fighting crime outside of the law. I like that sort of behavior, but I do not like the roving mobs of people that may be reality, though. 

And I've read of two incidents I can think of where a parent killed the killer of their child. They ended up doing time for it, but not nearly as much as the original criminal. I'm of the opinion that those parents are not psychopaths. The definition of a psychopath is one who has no empathy for others and tends to be very dominant over others (IIRC). The parents have empathy for others, but not enough empathy for this one individual to outweigh their desire to kill him. I don't think that fits the definition. And I don't see the crime as being of the same magnitude as the original one. 

@lucasreis, what video was that you saw? In a documentary or something?


----------



## Hollowway

You know what might be interesting is to see how different people weigh in on the classic trolley problem ethics exercise. This is very much like what we are talking about here, in that it is dealing with killing one person in an effort to protect others. I'm not sure what I would _actually_ do, but in my mind I vote for pulling the lever. And to me that is the same thing as locking a child abuser up for life or killing him. Anyway, for those not familiar with the trolley problem I copied this from Wikipedia:

There is a runaway trolley barrelling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. Unfortunately, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?


----------



## kamello

Hollowway said:


> You know what might be interesting is to see how different people weigh in on the classic trolley problem ethics exercise. This is very much like what we are talking about here, in that it is dealing with killing one person in an effort to protect others. I'm not sure what I would _actually_ do, but in my mind I vote for pulling the lever. And to me that is the same thing as locking a child abuser up for life or killing him. Anyway, for those not familiar with the trolley problem I copied this from Wikipedia:
> 
> There is a runaway trolley barrelling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. Unfortunately, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?



 (sorry, couldn't resist  although I agree with you regarding your Vigilante vision, I remember a place in Mexico where people take justice by their own hands, it ain't pretty...)


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## Jakke

Hollowway said:


> *The definition of a psychopath is one who has a chronic lack of empathy*



FIFY


----------



## Basti

Hollowway said:


> You know what might be interesting is to see how different people weigh in on the classic trolley problem ethics exercise. This is very much like what we are talking about here, in that it is dealing with killing one person in an effort to protect others. I'm not sure what I would _actually_ do, but in my mind I vote for pulling the lever. And to me that is the same thing as *locking a child abuser up for life or killing him.*


There is a whole load of difference between the two. Life imprisonment saves you from having to make the Trolley Problem choice by giving you a third option in which everybody lives. There's no need to kill someone who's locked away for life.



> Anyway, for those not familiar with the trolley problem I copied this from Wikipedia:
> 
> There is a runaway trolley barrelling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. Unfortunately, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?


It' weird, I first read about this in the context of a book on psychopaths. The point being made was that a psychopath wouldn't hesitate for a minute: he'd sacrifice the one person and save the rest. Why? Because he has no sense of empathy clouding his judgement it becomes a simple mathematical problem - one is less than five.
To the rest of us it's lose/lose because whatever we do will haunt us for the rest of our lives. We might hesitate and then it'd be too late.

edit: @lucasreis: good post, i think it consolidates my hypothetical man on the gallows as that's what i meant to convey: empathy is what separates us from them.
Congratulations by the way!!


----------



## fps

Esp Griffyn said:


> As much as we'd like to imagine the guards looking the other way, leaving a cell door unlocked etc,



I don't want this, I just want him to face justice and be locked away.


----------



## abandonist

Hollowway said:


> There is a runaway trolley barrelling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. Unfortunately, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?



Divert it to kill the one person.

Or just do nothing at all - it's not your problem.


----------



## Rosal76

Hollowway said:


> You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?



I would pull the trolley so it avoids hitting the five people and then immediately run towards the single person to try and save him. There is just not enough time to untie five people from a incoming train but there might be for a single person. It's the only thing I believe I can do. Even if you can't save the single person, you can definately try. And that's all that matters.


----------



## Mr Richard

Rosal76 said:


> I would pull the trolley so it avoids hitting the five people and then immediately run towards the single person to try and save him. There is just not enough time to untie five people from a incoming train but there might be for a single person. It's the only thing I believe I can do. Even if you can't save the single person, you can definately try. And that's all that matters.


 
The situation would put you at a distance that running is not an option. For me personally I would pull the lever regardless of if I had time to think about it or not. One death can affect many, 5 deaths would effect more, but regardless you do not know. Yes pulling the lever is you activally deciding to kill that one person, you would be making that choice, but doing nothing and allowing more people to die is just as bad.

Regardless you are damned if you do, damned if you don't, and to sacrifice one for many is always the route to go.


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## flint757

It's a dumb problem because either way blood is on your hands. Either you make the choice or the choice is made for you. If you can run the problem is at least posed in a fashion that forces _'you'_ to make a choice. Since you can't run you have no choice and choosing the 1 person is going to be the obvious victor. It should require next to no thought at all when given as an ultimatum such as this. 

A more involved problem would be a lot more interesting or maybe adding the factor that you know someone within one of the groups which would absolutely make someone hesitate. I get the point of dilemma problems, but I personally dislike them as they are often posed in a very unrealistic way to merely prove a point.


----------



## abandonist

Levenson Self-Report Psychopathy Scale

I score a 4.1 in both categories.


----------



## kamello

abandonist said:


> Levenson Self-Report Psychopathy Scale
> 
> I score a 4.1 in both categories.








I got 1.8 and 1.9


----------



## Basti

abandonist said:


> Levenson Self-Report Psychopathy Scale
> 
> I score a 4.1 in both categories.



Mine's 1.7 for primary psychopathy and 3.1 for secondary...dude that's out of 5...


----------



## abandonist

Well, remember that the majority of people with any form of mental illness go on to lead perfectly acceptable lives without those around them knowing much about it.

It's only very extreme cases where it leads to news stories.


----------



## Hollowway

Yes and in a psychopath test used by psychiatrists it shows that 1% of the population is psychopathic. But 3% of business owners are. abandonist owns his own business, so it doesn't surprise me that the odds are he'd score higher (plus the fact that he does his own thing more than anyone else I know).
And for reference, they estimate that prison populations show about 15-20 percent psychopathy.


----------



## kamello

Hollowway said:


> Yes and in a psychopath test used by psychiatrists it shows that 1% of the population is psychopathic. But 3% of business owners are. abandonist owns his own business, so it doesn't surprise me that the odds are he'd score higher (plus the fact that he does his own thing more than anyone else I know).
> And for reference, they estimate that prison populations show about 15-20 percent psychopathy.



but he hates me


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## Basti

I'm confused now is abandonist a psychopath?


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## abandonist

The questionnaire is about tendencies, not diagnosis, but yes, I am.


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## BucketheadRules

abandonist said:


> Levenson Self-Report Psychopathy Scale
> 
> I score a 4.1 in both categories.



Jesus!

1.9 and 2.3.


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## Basti

Well...that explains your user title


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## JoshuaVonFlash

I scored 2.8 and 2


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## flint757

I got 2 for primary and 3.2 for secondary. So apparently I show empathy, but lean towards some antisocial tendencies like rule breaking and a lack of effort towards socially rewarded behavior. 

At least that's what it says.


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## Hollowway

I got a 1.4 and a 1.5. Doesn't surprise me. I know I'm that way. And sometimes it drives me nucking futs that I'm such a rule follower.


----------



## Breakdown

4.1 primary , 3.2 secondary, I honestly thought I'd score lower.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

i got a 2.8 and a 2.9. honestly i thought it'd be higher


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## Jakke

3 and 3,4. Shall I show myself out?


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## Discoqueen

2 and 2.3, I don't think this is accurate, though. I am fairly certain I am just shy and don't think acting in accordance to 'norms' is fun. Then again, maybe 'psychopaths' are just people THE MAN has labeled 'antisocial'. Problem, society?


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## Jakke

It's also neurological diagnosis. The test also is not really influenced by shyness, as there is no indication that shy people are more empathic.


----------



## guitareben

1.4 and 1.6 


I'm a nice guy


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## JoeyW

"You score for primary psychopathy was higher than 69.77% of people who have taken this test. 

You score for secondary psychopathy was higher than 78.18% of people who have taken this test. "

fack


----------



## JP Universe

3.4 and 1.9

Did anyone else burn half an hour doing some of the other tests on there


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## JoshuaVonFlash

There are other test?


----------



## piggins411

1.7 and 2. Did anyone else take the animal quiz afterwards? I thought that was interesting


----------



## kamello

JP Universe said:


> 3.4 and 1.9
> 
> Did anyone else burn half an hour doing some of the other tests on there



guilty 


also, I like the new direction of this thread


----------



## Hollowway

Jakke said:


> 3 and 3,4. Shall I show myself out?



 That cracked me up! I love the irony.


----------



## Necris

Hollowway said:


> There is a runaway trolley barrelling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. Unfortunately, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?



2 would be my choice, but then the idea popped into my head "Could I cause a situation that would derail the trolley and kill all 6?" and I immediately started laughing at the image it produced in my brain. In reality it would be horrific, but the idea of something going catastrophically wrong has always been something I've found extremely amusing.


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## Discoqueen

Honestly, I would switch the lever half way through and derail the trolli, people have seat belts in those things, right?


----------



## kamello

Necris said:


> 2 would be my choice, but then the idea popped into my head "Could I cause a situation that would derail the trolley and kill all 6?" and I immediately started laughing at the image it produced in my brain. In reality it would be horrific, but the idea of something going catastrophically wrong has always been something I've found extremely amusing.




so....how much did you scored in the psychopath test?


----------



## Hollowway

To everyone trying to pull a James T. Kirk on the Trolley test: there is no way to cheat and get out of it. 

But here's another one (I'm getting a lot of this stuff from a book called Moral Tribes, btw): if a boy was drowning in a lake and you were wearing your fancy new $3000 suit, would you run in to save him, knowing that it would ruin your suit? Most people would say yes, and would be appalled at the idea of watching him die by not wanting to ruin a suit. But ok, then let's change it. Now you are planning to buy a $3000 suit, and someone tells you that if you give that money to charity you can save a boy from starvation halfway around the world. Then do you buy the suit? What if it's a guitar? I find myself sweating these scenarios probably way more than I should. I know damn well I don't "need" another guitar, and I know there are charities that would take my thousands and put it to the literal use of saving lives (not all charities, btw. The majority of them put pennies of your dollar toward their ostensible purpose). But it's so far away we tend not to think of them as immediately relevant. (The book postulates that our brains are developed to protect "us" against "them," and much of that has to do with proximity.)


----------



## Necris

kamello said:


> so....how much did you scored in the psychopath test?


1.2 Primary, 3.4 Secondary 



Hollowway said:


> Now you are planning to buy a $3000 suit, and someone tells you that if you give that money to charity you can save a boy from starvation halfway around the world. Then do you buy the suit? What if it's a guitar? I find myself sweating these scenarios probably way more than I should. I know damn well I don't "need" another guitar, and I know there are charities that would take my thousands and put it to the literal use of saving lives (not all charities, btw. The majority of them put pennies of your dollar toward their ostensible purpose). But it's so far away we tend not to think of them as immediately relevant. (The book postulates that our brains are developed to protect "us" against "them," and much of that has to do with proximity.)



This is going to make me sound like a horrible person (I may very well be one) but the overall idea that "you can help this person" doesn't really do anything to convince me to help someone, I know it would be a good thing to do, but it doesn't really mean anything. Even with more detail i.e. seeing a picture of the person I'm helping or the conditions they're dealing with, it still isn't really something that works to convince me to help. Even interacting with or meeting the person may not provide the impetus that would make me want to help them.

What may be even more strange is that this doesn't hold true for for me if it relates to non-human animals. If there were an animal in a similar situation, even if I've never had seen it and even if I never would; I would not only be willing to help it, but actively _want_ to.


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

Necris said:


> 1.2 Primary, 3.4 Secondary
> 
> 
> 
> This is going to make me sound like a horrible person (I may very well be one) but the overall idea that "you can help this person" doesn't really do anything to convince me to help someone, I know it would be a good thing to do, but it doesn't really mean anything. Even with more detail i.e. seeing a picture of the person I'm helping or the conditions they're dealing with, it still isn't really something that works to convince me to help. Even interacting with or meeting the person may not provide the impetus that would make me want to help them.
> 
> What may be even more strange is that this doesn't hold true for for me if it relates to non-human animals. If there were an animal in a similar situation, even if I've never had seen it and even if I never would; I would not only be willing to help it, but actively _want_ to.


 either you've lost hope in your fellow man or B.S.ing.


----------



## wespaul

Hollowway said:


> Now you are planning to buy a $3000 suit, and someone tells you that if you give that money to charity you can save a boy from starvation halfway around the world. Then do you buy the suit? What if it's a guitar? I find myself sweating these scenarios probably way more than I should.



I think the difference here is that I am directly affecting a person's life that's in immediate danger if I choose to jump in a lake. The problem with giving to charity (in contrast to the lake scenario) is that I have to have faith that my money is going to be put to good use. Somebody has to "tell me" that my money will save a boy from starvation. I think it's more about witnessing results with your own eyes. If there was a starving child by a lake, would I feed it? Sure I would. 

I don't stress over scenarios like this at all. If something is in my line of sight, and I can positively impact it in some way, I will do so. I don't actively seek out causes or problems to solve, though, and I don't think I'm any less of a person than somebody who does. Different people are in different situations.


----------



## Tommy Deaks

I got 2.8 and 3.5. And here's me thinking I was level headed


----------



## Dcm81

Hollowway said:


> There is a runaway trolley barrelling down the railway tracks. Ahead, on the tracks, there are five people tied up and unable to move. The trolley is headed straight for them. You are standing some distance off in the train yard, next to a lever. If you pull this lever, the trolley will switch to a different set of tracks. Unfortunately, you notice that there is one person on the side track. You have two options: (1) Do nothing, and the trolley kills the five people on the main track. (2) Pull the lever, diverting the trolley onto the side track where it will kill one person. Which is the correct choice?



Unless you want to end up in prison for murder or manslaughter you can't pull the lever or else you would actively be responsible for the death of the single tied up person 



Necris said:


> What may be even more strange is that this doesn't hold true for for me if it relates to non-human animals. If there were an animal in a similar situation, even if I've never had seen it and even if I never would; I would not only be willing to help it, but actively _want_ to.



For my part I have much more empathy towards animals than I'll ever have for humans.


----------



## Pweaks

I got 3.1 and 3.8.Your score for primary psychopathy was higher than 76.98% of people who have taken this test. 

Your score for secondary psychopathy was higher than 92.14% of people who have taken this test.


----------



## Winspear

3.3 1.8
You score for primary psychopathy was higher than 80.6% of people who have taken this test. 

You score for secondary psychopathy was higher than 16.44% of people who have taken this test. 

Interesting


----------



## ArtDecade

EtherealEntity said:


> 3.3 1.8
> You score for primary psychopathy was higher than 80.6% of people who have taken this test.
> 
> You score for secondary psychopathy was higher than 16.44% of people who have taken this test.
> 
> Interesting



I had very similar results. 
3 / 1.8


----------



## djyngwie

The lucky thing about psychopathy is, that the condition is not correlated with sadism. Psychopathy is about lack of empathy and nothing more.


----------



## works0fheart

I actually liked one of their albums a long time ago... I really can't begin to describe how much it disgusts me to hear about this. I can only hope he gets killed in prison or beaten daily, as horrible as that may be...


----------



## Esp Griffyn

Further depravity.

Ian Watkins begged for sex with my daughter aged TEN and wanted me to have his baby to abuse - Mirror Online

Truly a cleric of the ghouls. One of the sickest men Wales has ever spawned.


----------



## ByDesign

^ I'd be careful about what you read on the internet unless it's from a completely legit reputable source.


----------



## HaloHat

MaxOfMetal said:


> If this is true, I can only hope that he's placed with the general population.



I was married to a law enforcement person for 10 years [had to divorce her for bringing work home too often among other crap lol] and I can assure you the subject person of this post has a very limited life span once in prison. They can only keep him in isolation for so long and well doors get left open on accident now and then you know...

Worry not, he's toast.


----------



## HaloHat

1.2 & 1.2
Maybe. I don't harm the innocent. 

Not innocent? Don't f... with me or your in for a life changing experience lol.


----------



## Xaios

HaloHat said:


> I was married to a law enforcement person for 10 years [had to divorce her for bringing work home too often among other crap lol] and I can assure you the subject person of this post has a very limited life span once in prison. They can only keep him in isolation for so long and well doors get left open on accident now and then you know...
> 
> Worry not, he's toast.



Again though, he's not going to an American prison.

______________


Took that test. I scored 1.7 for primary psychopathy (higher than 29.04% of others) and 2.6 for secondary psychopathy (higher than 54% of others).

I seem to be a relatively normal person. Go me.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

ByDesign said:


> ^ I'd be careful about what you read on the internet unless it's from a completely legit reputable source.



Yeah, thanks for the head up, I had not considered that.


----------



## Stealth7

Xaios said:


> Again though, he's not going to an American prison.



A prison in Wales is no different than a prison in America.


----------



## Wings of Obsidian

^Whut.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

^Whut.


----------



## xCaptainx

Stealth7 said:


> A prison in Wales is no different than a prison in America.



well, for a start, the english and welsh prison mortality rate in 2012 is 1.54% of the entire U.S prison mortality rate from 2000 to 2007. 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/192431/safety-custody-dec-2012.pdf

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/(S(...articleid=22841&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

BUT let's not get facts get in the way of blank statements!


----------



## MikeH

2.8 and 4....

Hmm....


----------



## Stealth7

xCaptainx said:


> well, for a start, the english and welsh prison mortality rate in 2012 is 1.54% of the entire U.S prison mortality rate from 2000 to 2007.
> 
> https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/192431/safety-custody-dec-2012.pdf
> 
> https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/(S(...articleid=22841&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
> 
> BUT let's not get facts get in the way of blank statements!



Yeah bit of a silly thing to say  He isn't going to have a nice stay in any jail is what I was getting at.


----------



## Hyacinth

1.6 and 1. I'm pretty un-psychopathic.


----------



## Hyacinth

Stealth7 said:


> Yeah bit of a silly thing to say  He isn't going to have a nice stay in any jail is what I was getting at.



I just read an AMA from some guy who was in prison for 6 years and he said there's no sure way to find out what someone is in for as asking is kind of taboo in prison. The only way they know is if they say it, which a child molester probably wouldn't, or if someone on the outside did research and told you. That being said, if they find out, people who are in prison for molesting/killing/hurting children definitely get fvcked with more often than other inmates and for good reason.


----------



## flexkill

this isn't a movie guys.....ya know? He deserves to have his prick sliced off one mm at a time though....sick bastard!


----------



## ByDesign

Esp Griffyn said:


> Yeah, thanks for the head up, I had not considered that.



Apologies, I'll work on my telepathy.


----------



## tomsargent

flexkill said:


> this isn't a movie guys.....ya know? He deserves to have his prick sliced off one mm at a time though....sick bastard!



So, like, three chops and we're done?


----------



## flexkill

tomsargent said:


> So, like, three chops and we're done?



seems you have some inside info...as i myself have no idea what size his penis is.


----------



## Repner

MatthewLeisher said:


> I just read an AMA from some guy who was in prison for 6 years and he said there's no sure way to find out what someone is in for as asking is kind of taboo in prison. The only way they know is if they say it, which a child molester probably wouldn't, or if someone on the outside did research and told you. That being said, if they find out, people who are in prison for molesting/killing/hurting children definitely get fvcked with more often than other inmates and for good reason.


There is a lot of publicity for this case though. If the people already inside don't already know, people going in later will.


----------



## DarkWolfXV

I got 4.6 for primary psychopathy and 3.5 for secondary.

Do I need to visit someone if my primary score is higher than abandonist's?


----------



## jay moth

For me it's 4.4 and 3.1.

"You score for primary psychopathy was higher than 94.37% of people who have taken this test. 

You score for secondary psychopathy was higher than 74.89% of people who have taken this test. "

I'd say "psychopaths unite", but I don't really care about making a club. (And that's why I got those results, ekhm...)

As predictable, I don't really care about the whole Lostprophets thing, I never liked them, however I'm glad I checked that thread and found that test, maybe it'll be good idea to make separete thread about it?


----------



## tedtan

DarkWolfXV said:


> I got 4.6 for primary psychopathy and 3.5 for secondary.
> 
> Do I need to visit someone if my primary score is higher than abandonist's?


 
Most definitely!


----------



## DarkWolfXV

tedtan said:


> Most definitely!


----------



## flexkill

HaloHat said:


> 1.2 & 1.2
> Maybe. I don't harm the innocent.
> 
> Not innocent? Don't f... with me or your in for a life changing experience lol.



I got a 4.3 & 4.7 and I know exactly witch two I answered that kept me from getting a perfect 5.0......this test is a joke.


----------



## Basti

Psychopaths...Psychopaths everywhere...lol


----------



## hairychris

The whole case has been ....ing weird. I was a bit "hmmm, right then" with the initial arrest but last week's sentencing was fully WTF.

It's not so much the fact that Watkins is a nonce, but it's the whole parents of those kids thing as well. Crazy stuff.



EtherealEntity said:


> Daaaaaamn.




That is *amazing*.


----------



## ridner

never heard of this guy/this band before. this is absolutely disgusting. IF he is guilty, I hope he is punished to the fullest extent of the law. this makes me sick.


----------



## Jake

ridner said:


> never heard of this guy/this band before. this is absolutely disgusting. IF he is guilty, I hope he is punished to the fullest extent of the law. this makes me sick.


He already pleaded guilty to it so I would say it's safe to say he will be


----------



## Roscoe

I looked through the posts briefly couldnt see a mention of it. Apologies if im a goon and have missed it...

H from pop sensation 'Steps' (UK cringe pop act) real name is also Ian Watkins and America's E! News posted up a photo of him instead of peado Watkins and poor innocent H from Steps has been receiving death threats in the confusion. 

E! News =


----------



## CyborgSlunk

Roscoe said:


> I looked through the posts briefly couldnt see a mention of it. Apologies if im a goon and have missed it...
> 
> H from pop sensation 'Steps' (UK cringe pop act) real name is also Ian Watkins and America's E! News posted up a photo of him instead of peado Watkins and poor innocent H from Steps has been receiving death threats in the confusion.
> 
> E! News =



Wow really? That´s horrible, I would sue the shit out of them.


----------



## Roscoe

Ian H Watkins From Steps Falls Foul Of An Extremely Unfortunate Picture Fail

So bad!!!

Bet you it was the social media intern! he'll never work in Hollywood again! haha


----------



## Louis Cypher

Roscoe said:


> H from pop sensation 'Steps' (UK cringe pop act) real name is also Ian Watkins and America's E! News posted up a photo of him instead of peado Watkins and poor innocent H from Steps has been receiving death threats in the confusion.
> 
> E! News =



Thats really bad, I really hope he does the sue the fcuk out of E! for that.

Gotta hand it to the big brave people who been sending H death threats though.... fcukwits with access to the internet..... scary how many there are


----------



## Genome

He's been sentenced today.

He's received 29 years with extended 6 years sentence meaning he will do 35 years. Judge says he'll have to spend at least two thirds of the sentence before being considered for release, so he'll be behind bars for at least 23 years.


----------



## GunpointMetal

hopefully its 23 years of prison justice, fvck that guy.


----------



## guitarfreak1387

I see this guy dying in prison. Gut feeling.....


----------



## BrailleDecibel

Watkins's post-guilty plea statements in this story really highlight what a horrible person he is (as if that needed any more highlighting) :

Ex-Losprophets Frontman Ian Watkins Sentenced To 35 Years In Prison For Child Sex Crimes | Theprp.com &#8211; Metal, Hardcore And Rock News, Reviews And More


----------



## JoeyBTL

I was kind of shocked at the 35 years but he'll probably be killed in prison anyway so it's not so bad.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

His ridiculous attempts to play down what he has done is appalling, crass and shameless. If anyone believes he is not a committed and willing kiddie fiddler, and that he took anything less than full enjoyment in what he was doing, they are naive and misguided. The password he gave to his laptop is evidence enough of that. This man is one of the sickest to have ever come from Wales. I can only imagine what dark events and acts have warped this pervert's mind to leave us with the twisted ghoul we see before us now.


----------



## ZachK

He isn't eligible for parole until 2036. Shouldn't even b able to try and get parole. 

Deserving everything he gets.


----------



## MikeH

Though it's not as much as I would like him to receive, I'm still glad he's going to sit in prison for a decent amount of time. Certainly enough time to get beaten to death.


----------



## thrsher

theprp posted a link to court paperwork of the senticing, i read through it, completely speechless by what i read. i say he does not last 1 month before being killed like dahmer


----------



## tommychains

tommychains said:


> KILL HIM, KILL HIM WITH FIRE.




Said this 6 months ago, I still stand by it. I hope this guy becomes the prison bitch. I'm curious as to what his old bandmates will do after this. I mean, it was just him doing this, but the name of Lostprophets is forever stained with his crimes. Hopefully it doesn't carry over to them.


----------



## simonXsludge

thrsher said:


> theprp posted a link to court paperwork of the senticing, i read through it, completely speechless by what i read. i say he does not last 1 month before being killed like dahmer


Yeah, the details in those papers are disturbing and sickening.

British/most European prisons are not even remotely similiar to US prisons. People don't get killed here so easy. I'm not saying there is no risk, but it's not as high as if he would be prisoned in the US.


----------



## Ralyks

I read the papers and... Nope. I'm done. I want to throw up by the time they started going over sentencing.


----------



## Dethyr

35 years is a LONG TIME to survive in prison for this guy. I know there's been all sorts of people saying "that's not how prison works" but 35 years in prison for the crimes he was convicted of and the extreme details being public..... I would not wanna be him.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

Dethyr said:


> 35 years is a LONG TIME to survive in prison for this guy. I know there's been all sorts of people saying "that's not how prison works" but 35 years in prison for the crimes he was convicted of and the extreme details being public..... I would not wanna be him.



He is not in prison for 35 years, he is in for 29 and on licence for 6 - being "on licence" is not the same as being jailed. And as for the likelihood of him dying, the UK prison service has very low convict on convict murder. Far more likely to commit suicide tbh. Even then, he is likely to be on suicide watch, which makes it more difficult but not impossible to commit suicide, and given his high profile public standing, the well-reported nature of his case in the media and the extent of his crimes, he is almost certain to never be in with the general population while in prison. He will be in with the other nonces for the duration.


----------



## Skullet

He'll get dealt with in prison that is a given ! My friends murderer should be getting the same amount of time as this creep but no he only got 12 for murder !


----------



## loqtrall

Man, I can't wait to come back here in 20-25-ish years and read people's comments when they find out he didn't die in prison and was released on parole for good behavior or some stupid shit....


----------



## OmegaSlayer

I think whoever is against Death Sentence should read the acts of the trial.
I'm not a guy who gets easily impressed but I had to stop reading as my head went blank and dumb.
Never felt so shocked in my entire life at the sheer perversion humankind can reach in some occasions.


----------



## guitarfreak1387

started to read the papers........wish i never did that. only got to about page three and before i said ....this.

how does someone go this far without anyone speaking out?


----------



## TheSpaceforthis

I saw Ricky Gervais posted something about this guy on facebook and quickly deleted it, apparently it offended some people


I hope he gets killed in jail btw, but not before suffering a lot.


----------



## xCaptainx

Twisted paedophile Ian Watkins still raking in royalties as fans buy t-shirts and music | UK | News | Daily Express

Wow. I don't even know what to say


----------



## lucasreis

xCaptainx said:


> Twisted paedophile Ian Watkins still raking in royalties as fans buy t-shirts and music | UK | News | Daily Express
> 
> Wow. I don't even know what to say



Is the rest of the band getting money as well? I'm totally fine if fans buy the music, the merch, and the rest of the guys get the money as long as Ian is blocked from getting the money. After all, the other guys don't deserve to be unemployed for Ian's stupid actions.

ps: nevermind, I just read the link. It seems he is getting money from a clothing line he owns, it doesn't really have anything to to with the rest of the band I guess.


----------



## xCaptainx

I'm more shocked that people are making NEW band shirts, featuring the 'Mega Lolz' quote he said about the whole ordeal AFTER his guilty plea.


----------



## IAMLORDVADER

Really???? Someone actually got this tattoo?


----------



## Nats

I heard lost prophets once and can tell their fans, especially the ones supporting him, are juggalo type inbred lowest common denominator of the gene pool. Soooo I'm not really surprised they're still buying shit.


----------



## GunpointMetal

man, there are a lot of totally worthless people out there using up the oxygen the rest of could be enjoying.....there should be some sort of legal repercussion for supporting a sick freak like that.....like, a $500 fine and a staple to the penis.


----------



## no_dice

xCaptainx said:


> I'm more shocked that people are making NEW band shirts, featuring the 'Mega Lolz' quote he said about the whole ordeal AFTER his guilty plea.



Anyone who wears those shirts should be punched in the face. The seriousness of the things this guy has done should not be lessened by making a ....ing joke out of it.


----------



## Tyler

Standing in the jail cell, Im gonna scream my heart out (from being raped for what I did)


----------



## Nats

On a side note, it must be weird for a tattoo artist to tattoo a picture of a guy with a tattoo. It's very Norman Rockwell.


----------



## Esp Griffyn

IAMLORDVADER said:


> Really???? Someone actually got this tattoo?



Why the .... would you do that? The same with these stupid T shirts (which are obviously not official Lost Prophets merch, and Watkinsbeast will not be making money off them, they are clearly a shitty fan effort), anyone who would wear one of these T shirts, or show that tattoo in public, would likely be subject to abuse and possibly violence for their obvious support of Watkin's despicable acts.


----------



## jephjacques

it's cool, that guy has a sweet goebbels tattoo on his other calf


----------



## feraledge

Just read some of the court document on the sentencing. This is so insanely disgusting. I'm still cringing and I barely got through the second page. 
There is nothing that can be done to this POS that could impart the pain and disgust he's taken part in. He just needs to be ended. Same goes for the mother. Absolutely sickening. These words are going to haunt me for a long, long time.


----------



## Bucks

When I worked at UCL in London, a study I worked on was investigating the impact of maltreatment and sexual abuse on children through fMRI, so unfortunately I have read cases like this before. Alarmingly they are increasingly and the vast majority of abuse goes undetected.

Just hope this man and the women spend their full sentences in Jail as they are quite clearly extremely dangerous.


----------



## jephjacques

twenty bucks says he gets beaten to death before he finishes his sentence


----------



## matt397

jephjacques said:


> twenty bucks says he gets beaten to death before he finishes his sentence



This. But I hope it's later on, like he gets beaten daily for the next 10 or 20 years an then one goes too far. I know it's not realistic, this isn't hollywood, but one can hope.


----------



## wankerness

Does that kind of thing ever happen in English prisons? I thought it was pretty much just the US and third world countries where prisons were like that.


----------



## zero_end

Oh man, i really liked the "start something" record and some other songs. Now I cannot listen to their music without feeling disgusted & disturbed.

Forever tainted.

So sad.


----------



## Dethyr

zero_end said:


> Oh man, i really liked the "start something" record and some other songs. Now I cannot listen to their music without feeling disgusted & disturbed.
> 
> Forever tainted.
> 
> So sad.



This is exactly how I feel... to a tee. LOVED their first two albums, really enjoyed playing along to them on drums. One of their songs came on my random play the other day and I just felt icky which is really too bad because it's not like the whole band did this shit, it's just one guy, one guy that didn't write any of the music and didn't even write all of the lyrics. But none the less.... I just can't do it.


----------



## Hankey

zero_end said:


> Oh man, i really liked the "start something" record and some other songs. Now I cannot listen to their music without feeling disgusted & disturbed.
> 
> Forever tainted.
> 
> So sad.



Same here. I'de go as far as saying "Start Something" was one of my favourite albums of all time. They were a huge influence when I was growing up and discovering "heavy" music. Allthough I have to say that I always considered Ian to be the weakest link of the band. He has an annoying habbit of "sliding" into a certain pitch, instead of hitting the right note immediately.


----------



## Jemp

I listened to a lot of Lost Prophet Songs a few years back...kinda sux now that this happened but well, that's how ....ed up the world is sometimes.

Never thought that it would be this bad tho. :/


----------



## stuglue

Haven't heard the band's music, don't know anything about them.
What's puzzling me reading this thread are the comments about how inhumane the death sentence is yet in the same breath people wanting people like Watkins to get butt raped, mutilated and beaten to death. Call me stupid but isn't a lethal injection more humane than butchery?


----------



## GunpointMetal

this man deserves no humanity....lethal injection is not nearly cruel enough for him, maybe the electric chair if they could just set it to a near-lethal voltage and keep him hooked up for a few hours.....still too easy.


----------



## Drowner

I feel like i could make one of those "unpopular opinion animal" memes, but ill probably still listen to the songs when they come on shuffle.


----------



## Repner

wankerness said:


> Does that kind of thing ever happen in English prisons? I thought it was pretty much just the US and third world countries where prisons were like that.


We can only hope there is a repeat of this:

23 YEAR OLD PEDOPHILE DISEMBOWELED AFTER BRAGGING OF HIS CRIMES IN PRISON - Secrets of the FedSecrets of the Fed


----------



## Basti

Repner said:


> We can only hope there is a repeat of this:
> 
> 23 YEAR OLD PEDOPHILE DISEMBOWELED AFTER BRAGGING OF HIS CRIMES IN PRISON - Secrets of the FedSecrets of the Fed



That's horrible and no, i hope it doesn't get repeated...


----------



## sol niger 333

Woah...just read exactly what they did

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/r-v-watkins-and-others.pdf

DARK


----------



## spawnofthesith

.....


Beyond ....ing disturbing. I stopped reading after a bit, it was ruining my day. It's hard to imagine people that despicable and ....ed up exist


----------



## JoshuaVonFlash

sol niger 333 said:


> Woah...just read exactly what they did
> 
> http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/r-v-watkins-and-others.pdf
> 
> DARK


Didn't get past the fourth page, I am without words.


----------



## BucketheadRules

sol niger 333 said:


> Woah...just read exactly what they did
> 
> http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/r-v-watkins-and-others.pdf
> 
> DARK



NO.

Oh my god, that is truly horrifying. If he EVER comes out of prison it will be too soon. How can any human being ever act like that...


----------



## BucketheadRules

wankerness said:


> Does that kind of thing ever happen in English prisons? I thought it was pretty much just the US and third world countries where prisons were like that.



I don't know but I sort of hope not, because while he is quite clearly a disgusting, not to mention highly dangerous abomination of a man, no-one deserves to be raped or whatever else "prison justice" entails... it lowers the perpetrators to the level of the person they're attacking, regardless of how much more severe that person's crimes may be.

This might be an unpopular thing to say in the wake of so much gut-reaction, red-mist anger which is leading half of the people on this thread to start baying for Watkins' blood, but I really don't think more violence is the answer. I shall finish up with two cliches:

1) Two wrongs do not make a right.

2) An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.


----------



## sol niger 333

He will be 53 years old when he is released. Reunion tour?


----------



## Draceius

Earliest he can get out of jail is when he's 55, and then he still has 6 years of supervised release, so 61 really, and that's the minimum, with 65 being the maximum + the supervised release.



BucketheadRules said:


> I don't know but I sort of hope not, because while he is quite clearly a disgusting, not to mention highly dangerous abomination of a man, no-one deserves to be raped or whatever else "prison justice" entails... it lowers the perpetrators to the level of the person they're attacking, regardless of how much more severe that person's crimes may be.
> 
> This might be an unpopular thing to say in the wake of so much gut-reaction, red-mist anger which is leading half of the people on this thread to start baying for Watkins' blood, but I really don't think more violence is the answer. I shall finish up with two cliches:
> 
> 1) Two wrongs do not make a right.
> 
> 2) An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.



^Also so much this.


----------



## Mike

sol niger 333 said:


> He will be 53 years old when he is released. Reunion tour?



Is it just me or does he already look 53 in his mugshots?


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## GunpointMetal

whoever neg-repped me in this thread can go eat a dick...this man is a loser waste of oxygen and he shouldn't be allowed to share it, with anyone.


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## matt397

BucketheadRules said:


> I don't know but I sort of hope not, because while he is quite clearly a disgusting, not to mention highly dangerous abomination of a man, no-one deserves to be raped or whatever else "prison justice" entails... it lowers the perpetrators to the level of the person they're attacking, regardless of how much more severe that person's crimes may be.
> 
> This might be an unpopular thing to say in the wake of so much gut-reaction, red-mist anger which is leading half of the people on this thread to start baying for Watkins' blood, but I really don't think more violence is the answer. I shall finish up with two cliches:
> 
> 1) Two wrongs do not make a right.
> 
> 2) An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.



The guy tried to *f*uck a baby and raped other children. Whatever happens to him inside prison could never come close to the psychological damage he put those kids through. He deserves anything that happens to him in prison, Anything. I don't care I guess I too have an unpopular opinion because the way I see it is that he has been deemed mentally fit and therefore was completely aware of what he was doing and still followed through with his actions. There is no rehabilitating someone like that and he is a danger to children and can not contribute to society so it's my belief they should just off the guy. 
At what point do they start handing out life sentences for this kind of *s*hit ?


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## Esp Griffyn

Given that upon his release, if he doesn't kill himself in jail, he will have to sign the sex offender register and will likely not be able to leave the country anyway, so a reunion tour would be off the cards, not that anyone would go and see it anyway.


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## GunpointMetal

all those songs everyone loved in high school were to little kids...fvckin sick asshole.


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## Mysticlamp

i wonder how fast he gets murdered


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## Cnev

BucketheadRules said:


> This might be an unpopular thing to say in the wake of so much gut-reaction, red-mist anger which is leading half of the people on this thread to start baying for Watkins' blood, but I really don't think more violence is the answer.



I really hope that we never get to a point as a species that actions such as these are met with anything less than "Red-mist anger". .... this guy.


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## InVinoVeritasXXX

Cnev said:


> I really hope that we never get to a point as a species that actions such as these are met with anything less than "Red-mist anger". .... this guy.


Yeah, because fighting fire with fire works so well. Nobody's saying the guy isn't a scumbag, they're just saying that he doesn't deserve to be brutalized, tortured, and murdered on the basis that nobody deserves that. Honestly, considering how far he's fallen, spending the next 35 years in prison only to emerge to a life of mediocrity seems like it'd be due punishment. He'll never know the success he once knew, he won't be able to leave the country, he'll be on the sex offender registry. Regardless of what fate befalls him now, life as he knew it is over. Keep him alive and let him suffer the consequences of his actions. In some ways, that's more cruel than a prison murder, as at least that doesn't take 35 years to complete.


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## Dayn

Phew, 35 years. There's almost no hope of him being released before then. That's half, if not more, of his life gone. Good. Despite the horrific assaults, at least the babies are still alive. They could easily have been slaughtered...

He clearly doesn't deserve to live, and the world would be better off without him. But I consider that a fair sentence.


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## InVinoVeritasXXX

Dayn said:


> Phew, 35 years. There's almost no hope of him being released before then. That's half, if not more, of his life gone. Good. Despite the horrific assaults, at least the babies are still alive. They could easily have been slaughtered...
> 
> He clearly doesn't deserve to live, and the world would be better off without him. But I consider that a fair sentence.


See, that's the thing, I consider being locked in a box the absolute worst fate possible. Death is relatively quick. And being locked in a box when you used to be a superfamous rock star? Knowing that death could come at any moment or locked up in solitary, which is what they'd have to do to keep him alive, I imagine, he does not have a pleasant third of a century ahead of him. If he makes it, he'll be faced with a life of mediocrity, obscurity, and supervision. If he makes it out, he'll die of an overdose most likely. That is if he doesn't off himself at some point during all this. He got what was coming to him. I don't know if justice has been served yet, but it will be, one way or another. On one hand, I can understand a kink or two, but keep it to consenting adults. And no, that bark is not a yes.


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## sol niger 333

Esp Griffyn said:


> Given that upon his release, if he doesn't kill himself in jail, he will have to sign the sex offender register and will likely not be able to leave the country anyway, so a reunion tour would be off the cards, not that anyone would go and see it anyway.



Yeah...wasn't being serious about the reunion tour at age 55 

Maybe they could tour creches and kindergartens


Crechella 2030?


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## sol niger 333

Dayn said:


> Phew, 35 years. There's almost no hope of him being released before then. That's half, if not more, of his life gone. Good. Despite the horrific assaults, at least the babies are still alive. They could easily have been slaughtered...
> 
> He clearly doesn't deserve to live, and the world would be better off without him. But I consider that a fair sentence.



He will be eligible for parole in 17 so will likely be out in 2030. Not long enough IMO


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## BucketheadRules

matt397 said:


> The guy tried to *f*uck a baby and raped other children. Whatever happens to him inside prison could never come close to the psychological damage he put those kids through. He deserves anything that happens to him in prison, Anything. I don't care I guess I too have an unpopular opinion because the way I see it is that he has been deemed mentally fit and therefore was completely aware of what he was doing and still followed through with his actions. There is no rehabilitating someone like that and he is a danger to children and can not contribute to society so it's my belief they should just off the guy.
> At what point do they start handing out life sentences for this kind of *s*hit ?



Logic at its finest... he committed unspeakably disgusting acts against children, so the absolute best thing we can do is perpetrate even more violence against him. Where the f*ck does this eye-for-an-eye thing come from? 

I also post on another guitar forum, in which every regularly-posting member lives in the UK, and anyone defending the death penalty or any form of "vengeance" (which is what it is, you can't reasonably call it justice) gets absolutely ripped to shreds - that's how I formed my own views on it. The more I read their arguments against it, the more I realised how indefensible and morally bankrupt the death penalty is. But there seem to be a frankly alarming number of people on here who are all for killing criminals, which is a shame - I don't understand how you can defend the idea of using violence to combat violence. They're humans too - shitty humans, but humans nonetheless. They have rights, like it or not.

The death penalty is sadistic and unnecessary, and if you defend it then I'm sorry, I lose a fair bit of respect for you.



Cnev said:


> I really hope that we never get to a point as a species that actions such as these are met with anything less than "Red-mist anger". .... this guy.



For Christ's sake, when did I ever say I didn't think Ian Watkins was a c*nt? There, I said it - Ian Watkins is a c*nt.

All I said was that I don't think more violence is the answer.


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## BucketheadRules

sol niger 333 said:


> He will be eligible for parole in 17 so will likely be out in 2030. Not long enough IMO



Eligible for parole =/= getting out.

I highly doubt he'll be coming out any time soon - if ever. Hopefully he's in for life.


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## Draceius

BucketheadRules said:


> The death penalty is sadistic and unnecessary, and if you defend it then I'm sorry, I lose a fair bit of respect for you.
> 
> All I said was that I don't think more violence is the answer.



This, I have and always will see the death penalty as legalized murder, it is never the answer.


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## GunpointMetal

some people actually do deserve to have all of their "human rights" taken away. All this PC, sand-in-my-vagina crap pisses me off.

If you fVck children, you should die. 

Slowly, painfully, without mercy. 
It should take years. Cut off a bit here or there, never let the wounds heal....

I'm all for compassion when its deserved. I don't eat or wear animals, I pay attention to how my consumer choices effect my environment, and I think most people deserve a second chance....unless your like to rape little kids, kill people for no reason other than power, and knowingly prey on the weak for personal gain. Then you should just stop existing.


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## UCBmetal

Jesus christ...


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## BucketheadRules

GunpointMetal said:


> some people actually do deserve to have all of their "human rights" taken away. All this PC, sand-in-my-vagina crap pisses me off.
> 
> If you fVck children, you should die.
> 
> Slowly, painfully, without mercy.
> It should take years. Cut off a bit here or there, never let the wounds heal....
> 
> I'm all for compassion when its deserved. I don't eat or wear animals, I pay attention to how my consumer choices effect my environment, and I think most people deserve a second chance....unless your like to rape little kids, kill people for no reason other than power, and knowingly prey on the weak for personal gain. Then you should just stop existing.



I don't even know how to respond to this.

"It should take years. Cut off a bit here or there, never let the wounds heal..."

Seriously, are you actually as sick as this makes you sound or are you exaggerating for attention? That is torture. It's unbelievably horrible torture - you'll be advocating waterboarding next, presumably. State-sanctioned torture, which is what you seem to be after, totally removes the upper hand the justice system is meant to have - the whole point of justice is that we don't sink to the murky depths of the people we're dealing with. People who f*ck kids are disgusting, but if you actually believe the shite you just came out with then I hate to break it to you, you aren't very much better...

I'll admit it, I was the person who neg-repped you for your earlier comments, and far from feeling bad I'm ever more convinced I was right to do so. You deserved that neg rep, ten times over. I really hope you're exaggerating this crap, because if you aren't then I'm frankly kind of worried.


As for whoever neg-repped me in turn - perhaps I deserved that one. I have been coming on a little strong here with the whole moralising thing, but this is something I feel quite passionately about, so forgive me if I get carried away occasionally. Just something I think is a little odd though... you would gladly kill another member of the human race, and you then proceed to tell me I'm "what's wrong with the world" (hmm, more so than Watkins himself?) because I _don't _want to kill another member of the human race? I think I just about get where you're coming from, but the wording is a little... weird.


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## GunpointMetal

I'm worried about people who don't mind eating a cow and then feel mercy for a child rapist. You neg-repped me cause we disagree. I didn't attack anyone, so you were totally unjustified in doing so. GFY.


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## BucketheadRules

GunpointMetal said:


> I'm worried about people who don't mind eating a cow and then feel mercy for a child rapist. You neg-repped me cause we disagree. I didn't attack anyone, so you were totally unjustified in doing so. GFY.



I've been neg repped for far less...

I love eating meat, as do millions of other people across the world. I don't understand how eating meat is the same as f*cking kids in your book... 
And I find your assumption that I feel any kind of "mercy" for Ian Watkins very, very insulting. I have nothing but absolute contempt and disgust for him as a person, but those feelings do not extend to me wanting the government to execute him. I'm in the majority of British people when I say that I don't want state-sanctioned murder in this country. We have a totally different attitude to it here. That DOES NOT mean we have any sympathy or compassion for him and others like him - they are vile bastards who should be locked away from the world. Not killed - locked away, where they can't do any more harm.

I didn't merely neg rep you because we "disagreed" - I neg repped you because you posted something I found genuinely quite disgusting.


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## Draceius

GunpointMetal said:


> I'm worried about people who don't mind eating a cow and then feel mercy for a child rapist. You neg-repped me cause we disagree. I didn't attack anyone, so you were totally unjustified in doing so. GFY.



Before we get into attacking people and neg rep, may I just point out that eating a cow and torturing a person and causing a slow painful death are two entirely different things, one is something we do for food, and one is sadistic, disgusting and shows the horrible side of human nature has brought out in those who wish for this or would go as far as to do it. Not wanting to kill or torture someone is called being humane, we don't condone the crime committed, no-one does, but it doesn't warrant what you described in any way. Oh and complaining about rep is bannable offense (I need to stop mini-modding), so get over the fact that someone felt you deserved it.


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## sol niger 333

BucketheadRules said:


> I've been neg repped for far less...
> 
> I love eating meat, as do millions of other people across the world. I don't understand how eating meat is the same as f*cking kids in your book...



Preying on the defenseless to satiate our own selfish desires. I can totally see the parallel but I'm still in the camp of disagreeing with eye for an eye


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## GunpointMetal

man, its a good thing pedophilia didn't catch on like meat sandwichess a few thousand years ago.....


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## sol niger 333

We have done some pretty twisted shit before the constraints of modern society were in place. Look at what so many weirdo ancient counts and countesses lords etc did with their power and influence. Cannabilism and torture of slaves, necrophilia, pedophilia, you name it, humans will do it given the chance. This one count used to have sex/torture/cannibalism banquets with young boy slaves, torturing them and disemboweling them in front of the dinner guests and then doing all manner of nasty sexual shit with their bodies because they were all people of privilege and above the law. Absolute power corrupts absolutely


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## BucketheadRules

GunpointMetal said:


> man, its a good thing pedophilia didn't catch on like meat sandwichess a few thousand years ago.....



Oh I dunno, it's always been around AFAIK... it's just that paedophilia is generally recognised as abhorrent, while meat is recognised as... food. 

Because it is.


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## Eptaceros

lol @ neg-repping someone for disagreeing with their opinion. some people...

If Ian Watkins has been doing this kind of shit for so many years, he deserves to have his life engulfed in a state of near-death torture. He admittedly did all of this with full intent and pleasure...why not spread the "love" he's been giving full circle? It would not be an eye for an eye unless whoever tortures/rapes Watkins does so for selfish, sadistic pleasure.

oh and whoever said that thankfully the babies are alive: if you read the court transcript, you'll see that not only was one of the babies raped with an organ as large as they are, the baby was given crystal meth. I'm sorry, but that is going to be one fvcked up individual as soon as he/she hits a developmental stage.

I don't know how the prison system works in the UK, but in America, keeping inmates imprisoned comes out of OUR pockets. So no, I don't agree with a half-life jail sentence for somebody like Ian Watkins. I sincerely hope he gets murdered, in whatever manner.


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## Randy

Neg-rep bitching = bans

I let it go a couple times with the intention of being lenient but it's crossed the line into derailing.

GunpointMetal is first and the rest of you have been warned.


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## sol niger 333

GunpointMetal said:


> I'm worried about people who don't mind eating a cow and then feel mercy for a child rapist. You neg-repped me cause we disagree. I didn't attack anyone, so you were totally unjustified in doing so. GFY.



It seems you have pretty selective compassion.


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## Cnev

InVinoVeritasXXX said:


> Yeah, because fighting fire with fire works so well. Nobody's saying the guy isn't a scumbag, they're just saying that he doesn't deserve to be brutalized, tortured, and murdered on the basis that nobody deserves that. Honestly, considering how far he's fallen, spending the next 35 years in prison only to emerge to a life of mediocrity seems like it'd be due punishment. He'll never know the success he once knew, he won't be able to leave the country, he'll be on the sex offender registry. Regardless of what fate befalls him now, life as he knew it is over. Keep him alive and let him suffer the consequences of his actions. In some ways, that's more cruel than a prison murder, as at least that doesn't take 35 years to complete.



I didn't specify what I thought he deserved or didn't deserve, nor did I advocate any particular action toward this guy. I really have no interest in making a conscious and costly effort to care for the wellbeing of a guy who not only tortures and rapes children, but also views human life as no greater object than a shit smear on the sole of his shoe. I'm just not going to white-knight it for a creature of this caliber.


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## matt397

BucketheadRules said:


> Logic at its finest... he committed unspeakably disgusting acts against children, so the absolute best thing we can do is perpetrate even more violence against him. Where the f*ck does this eye-for-an-eye thing come from?
> 
> I also post on another guitar forum, in which every regularly-posting member lives in the UK, and anyone defending the death penalty or any form of "vengeance" (which is what it is, you can't reasonably call it justice) gets absolutely ripped to shreds - that's how I formed my own views on it. The more I read their arguments against it, the more I realised how indefensible and morally bankrupt the death penalty is. But there seem to be a frankly alarming number of people on here who are all for killing criminals, which is a shame - I don't understand how you can defend the idea of using violence to combat violence. They're humans too - shitty humans, but humans nonetheless. They have rights, like it or not.
> 
> The death penalty is sadistic and unnecessary, and if you defend it then I'm sorry, I lose a fair bit of respect for you.
> 
> 
> 
> For Christ's sake, when did I ever say I didn't think Ian Watkins was a c*nt? There, I said it - Ian Watkins is a c*nt.
> 
> All I said was that I don't think more violence is the answer.



How about your fvcking logic pal ? Lets take a guy thats willingly stuck his tiny Limey dick in countless numbers of children some UNDER THE AGE OF 2 FVCKING YEARS OLD and put him in a box for the next 35 years so he can fester and fantasize about fvcking more kids and then release him so he can what ? Go open up a shelter for the homeless or read to the blind ? No he's going to get out and do whatever he can to fvck some more kids. 
You said you "don't understand how you can defend the idea of using violence to combat violence" well let me explain how it works, for the people that don't have the moral restraint built into them to them from doing things like raping kids the deterrent wold be not wanting to die because if they did that and got caught they would be killed. Take the moral high ground all you want, I can stomach eliminating the death penalty for pretty much every imaginable crime you can think of except for when it comes to child rape, molestation and physical abuse. I'm done though, parade around here all you want like your some fvcking mother Theresa, I could give two shits. Later.


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## AxeHappy

Mother Theresa was an evil mother ....er he was all about suffering. 

I'm pretty against the death penalty. I also think "prison" should be rehabilitative and not punitive. 

As far as I am aware, studies have shown that child rapists *can't* be rehabilitated. Thusly prison doesn't work. 

I feel locking them up for life is far to cruel for most of them and that the death penalty is the *only* reasonable course of action in the majority of cases.

However, this sick .... is a special case. Lock him away forever. To suffer forever. 35 years with 2/3 served to be legible for parole is a ....ing joke.


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## feraledge

As an anarchist, I believe the state isn't in a moral state to dictate life and death. But I wholeheartedly believe that if you rape children and especially if you laugh about it, you should be killed. 
I don't believe in vengeance or payback, how could you possibly even achieve that here. If you can do that once, you can do it again. I just believe the earth is a better place without this dude, this "mom", and anyone like them.
All this "eye for an eye" stuff is really ridiculous. Why pretend like there's a level playing field for morality when the person in question is just a wretched being who doesn't deserve to live. 

And, even as a former vegan and someone who is passionately "politically" active, using something as universally disgusting as this to piggy back your cause is reprehensible and vile. Time and place guys.


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## tyler_faith_08

ArtDecade said:


> Jail is too good for this scumbag...



I disagree. I've heard some tales from some family friends (not about them) that some terrible things take place for very extended periods of time to pedophiles. It may take a week, it may take 10 years, but they'll find out and he'll get more than his due.


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## DJTanZen

Herrick said:


> I've heard that pedophiles don't do well in US prisons. Is it the same in Wales?



it wont matter where he is. People like him never do well in any prison.


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## abandonist

For .... sake you guys. There's nearly no chance anything terrible will happen to him in prison. How many of you have ever seen the inside of a cell, or know people that have done a few clips? That's just not how it works. Especially for a high profile case.


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## JoshuaVonFlash

abandonist said:


> For .... sake you guys. There's nearly no chance anything terrible will happen to him in prison. How many of you have ever seen the inside of a cell, or know people that have done a few clips? That's just not how it works. Especially for a high profile case.


Jeffery Dahmer?


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## Grand Moff Tim

JoshuaVonFlash said:


> Jeffery Dahmer?



Providing _one_ example out of all the people who are currently in prison, let alone all who have ever been imprisoned, doesn't really defeat his argument.


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## Randy

I watch a good bit of crime/prison non-fiction programs, I've known people who've served time (some very significant amounts of time) and I know corrections officers. No, prison isn't people getting raped/shived 24 hours a day but it's also not a Utopian summer camp for adults either. 

I doubt being a child rapist automatically puts the guy on some kind of 'hit list' but the main reason why people like that don't do well is because they're people who carried out crimes against children specifically who, by design, are chosen because they're a weak and defenseless target. Considering there's some degree of animalistic hierarchy that goes on in places like a prison (which, to some degree, already occurs in all society but that's a different topic), "survival of the fittest" etc. says packs and alpha males rule the roost. Being the type of person that preys upon the absolute weakest doesn't bode well for an environment where you're with hardened criminals and murderers. There's enough of a stigma about child molestation that, at a minimum, joining a group/gang that'll provide any level of defense is unlikely, which means relying on himself (and his rather small frame) for protection. That's not an envious situation to be in.

With regard to him being guarded 24/7 because he's a "high profile" prisoner, I doubt that's entirely likely either. Getting into protective custody programs and being kept in situations where you don't interact with other prisoners at all are VERY rare and usually only happen for brief periods of time. From the perspective of the prison itself, it's impractical to have separate quarters, rules and staff, all day every day for decades at a time just to serve a "famous" prisoner. In all scenarios I've seen/read about, it's only a matter of time before he ends up in general population.


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## JoshuaVonFlash

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Providing _one_ example out of all the people who are currently in prison, let alone all who have ever been imprisoned, doesn't really defeat his argument.


That wasn't the point of the post, I posted that to show it can happen but, as Randy said it does happen, but prison isn't guys getting shived and shanked 24/7.


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## hairychris

Randy said:


> I watch a good bit of crime/prison non-fiction programs, I've known people who've served time (some very significant amounts of time) and I know corrections officers. No, prison isn't people getting raped/shived 24 hours a day but it's also not a Utopian summer camp for adults either.
> 
> I doubt being a child rapist automatically puts the guy on some kind of 'hit list' but the main reason why people like that don't do well is because they're people who carried out crimes against children specifically who, by design, are chosen because they're a weak and defenseless target. Considering there's some degree of animalistic hierarchy that goes on in places like a prison (which, to some degree, already occurs in all society but that's a different topic), "survival of the fittest" etc. says packs and alpha males rule the roost. Being the type of person that preys upon the absolute weakest doesn't bode well for an environment where you're with hardened criminals and murderers. There's enough of a stigma about child molestation that, at a minimum, joining a group/gang that'll provide any level of defense is unlikely, which means relying on himself (and his rather small frame) for protection. That's not an envious situation to be in.
> 
> With regard to him being guarded 24/7 because he's a "high profile" prisoner, I doubt that's entirely likely either. Getting into protective custody programs and being kept in situations where you don't interact with other prisoners at all are VERY rare and usually only happen for brief periods of time. From the perspective of the prison itself, it's impractical to have separate quarters, rules and staff, all day every day for decades at a time just to serve a "famous" prisoner. In all scenarios I've seen/read about, it's only a matter of time before he ends up in general population.



TBH the UK and US prison systems are rather different.

Whatever happens he's not going anywhere. He's staying here, which 'caters' mainly to violent sex offenders: HM Prison Wakefield - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If he was in general population in a normal prison he would likely run into problems fairly quickly. He may still do in Wakefield, but shit is different to the US system. This place is a *very* controlled environment.


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## Captain Butterscotch

EDIT: Nevermind, dammit.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Ian Watkins Attempting To Appeal Prison Sentence | News | Metal Hammer


----------



## Ralyks

^ Whats the likelihood of him getting any time taken off? Feels like slim to non, especially given his comments AFTER he confessed.


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## cwhitey2

http://www.chronicle.su/obituaries/ian-watkins-dead-at-36

I couldn't find any other sources so I'm 100% sure it's true.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

"APRIL 2ND, 2014"


----------

