# Schecter C7's: Hellraiser vs. Blackjack



## G9Music (Nov 8, 2008)

*EDIT: It has already been determined that between the Blackjack and the Hellraiser the Blackjack is best for my needs. However, on the next page you will find that I've brought up the Ibanez S7320 (with post-purchase pickup addition) as another option. Click here to read the post.*

After a lot of research and wavering I've decided between two similar guitars from the same company. Both are Schecter C-7's, but one's a Seymour Duncan Blackjack (picture is inaccurate of the specs, I believe) and the other is an EMG Hellraiser. I have heard that these guitars (or at least the Hellraiser, though since they're similar I would believe the rumor applies to the Blackjack as well) have sticky finishes on rather large necks... people seem to appreciate Ibanez's 7-string necks a lot more. I'd like confirmation or denial of this rumor. Please vote in the poll.

All in all, I want versatility of tone. Most of what I play gravitates around metal and hard rock, but about a third of my musical interest is invested in clean and alternative crunch tones as well. So keep that in mind in the Hellraiser vs. Blackjack, or more appropriately, Seymour Duncan Passive (I think) vs EMG Active debate.

I've considered the Ibanez RG7321 and getting new pickups but the locking bridge doesn't appeal to me... I'll be frequently changing tunings, dropping the low B to A, the low E to D, and the G to F# so it seems like a hassle. If these bridges aren't quite as hard as their tremolo cousins, please state so. I don't really understand the system. Obviously this rules out tremolo bridge guitars.

I would also prefer something around and under the Hellraiser's price of $750.


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## Koshchei (Nov 8, 2008)

Try a Carvin - they have excellent necks and fixed or floating bridges.


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## G9Music (Nov 8, 2008)

Those are a bit pricey for me. But if others continue to highly recommend it I'll consider it.


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## COBHC (Nov 8, 2008)

FYI the rg7321 is not a locking bridge

its just like a hipshot style string thru bridge

bottom plate with saddles held by screws for intonation adjustment and allen screws in the top of the saddles for action adjustment.

check out this closeup http://www.portlandpercussion.com/guitars/rg7321.JPG


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## G9Music (Nov 8, 2008)

COBHC said:


> FYI the rg7321 is not a locking bridge
> 
> its just like a hipshot style string thru bridge
> 
> ...



So how would I change tunings on it?


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## Shaman (Nov 8, 2008)

G9Music said:


> So how would I change tunings on it?



It is a hardtail bridge, so in order to change tunings, you just turn the tuning pegs on your headstock. The bridge is not a floating bridge, it doesen't have springs etc.


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## G9Music (Nov 8, 2008)

I see... so the RG remains viable in my case. Still, the actual quality of the guitar (wood, though EMG's kind of deter than anyway) seems less than the Schecter's so I'd like to hear some comments on the neck.


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## I_infect (Nov 8, 2008)

I have all 3... I think the Blackjack is the most versatile for your needs. The RG7321, without upgrades, is entry level at best IMO. If you absolutely had to go with Ibanez, I would go with an older made in Japan model. The Schecter necks are much thinner nowadays than the used to be, and are much nicer than the RG7321 for many reasons.


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## budda (Nov 8, 2008)

the blackjack smokes the hellraiser in terms of versatility.

having owned a blackjack and spent time on a hellraiser, i'd hands down get the BJ for versatility - it'll handle the metal as well!


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## noob_pwn (Nov 8, 2008)

budda said:


> i'd hands down get a BJ


 

no seriously,
try and score a used ibanez 7421, it would be your best bet imo.
If not a blackjack, just dont get a guitar with stock EMG's because that significantly limits your options in the future if you dislike active pickup tone.


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## budda (Nov 8, 2008)

what makes you suggest the 7421 over the blackjack, if you dont mind my asking?

26.5 scale vs 25.5 better tension.

arent the 7*20's basswood? vs mahogany which has a much richer, fuller tone. sure it weighs a little bit more, but IMO the tone is worth it (and they dont weight that much).

and have you played with the 5-way switch on a blackjack? that thing can get some amazing clean (and dirty) tones i've heard.


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## G9Music (Nov 8, 2008)

I think I'll go with the BlackJack. Thanks for everyone's input.


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## I_infect (Nov 8, 2008)

G9Music said:


> I think I'll go with the BlackJack. Thanks for everyone's input.


 If you're looking for a used one, I have been sitting on a guitarcenter link for $299. Not sure if they ship though... I think it's in Alabama.


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## G9Music (Nov 8, 2008)

I_infect said:


> If you're looking for a used one, I have been sitting on a guitarcenter link for $299. Not sure if they ship though... I think it's in Alabama.



Yeah, a lot of those are local-only. I'd prefer new anyway... thanks for the head's up though.

On another note what do you guys think of the Schecter Blackjack C-7 ATX? This one's with Seymour Duncan Blackouts. It seems to have less tonal diversity than the other two C7's I stated due to the 3-way switch and lack of tone pots.


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## I_infect (Nov 8, 2008)

G9Music said:


> Yeah, a lot of those are local-only. I'd prefer new anyway... thanks for the head's up though.
> 
> On another note what do you guys think of the Schecter Blackjack C-7 ATX? This one's with Seymour Duncan Blackouts. It seems to have less tonal diversity than the other two C7's I stated due to the 3-way switch and lack of tone pots.




I put blackouts in my C-7 blackjack, so it's essentially an ATX now. I wouldn't say it is what you're going for, as the blackouts are INTENSE. But my 6 string blackjack is stock, and at times I am almost sorry I modded the 7 stringer as the passive duncans really have a great all round tone.. stick with the passive Duncan version IMO, based on your tastes.


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## budda (Nov 8, 2008)

why buy new? I paid less then half the cost of a new one for a fine condition C7.

i wouldnt buy brand new unless it was the cost of a used one and/or i Really needed the warranty.

3-way switch means less versatility then a 5-way


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

Actually I'm starting to consider the Ibanez S7320... read reviews of the C-7 Blackjack and all brought up the issue of a fat neck... not to mention the scale length of this Ibanez is 25.5" as opposed to the Blackjack's 26.5", meaning less tension. All in all the S7320's neck construction might be more of a relief for my small hands...

...the wood material is also very similar. Another difference is the presence of a ZR tremolo bridge on the S7320. I've heard that adjusting tunings on this bridge is a lot easier than the FR, and since the most I'll be tuning up/down is a whole step everything can probably be done through the fine tuners (please confirm this).

Pickups on the S7320 are a problem. But I'll probably swap them out for some Bare Knuckle's (even though I'm in the US... =/).


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## jymellis (Nov 10, 2008)

noob_pwn said:


> no seriously,
> try and score a used ibanez 7421, it would be your best bet imo.
> If not a blackjack, just dont get a guitar with stock EMG's because that significantly limits your options in the future if you dislike active pickup tone.



+ 1



G9Music said:


> Actually I'm starting to consider the Ibanez S7320... read reviews of the C-7 Blackjack and all brought up the issue of a fat neck... not to mention the scale length of this Ibanez is 25.5" as opposed to the Blackjack's 26.5", meaning less tension. All in all the S7320's neck construction might be more of a relief for my small hands...
> 
> ...the wood material is also very similar. Another difference is the presence of a ZR tremolo bridge on the S7320. I've heard that adjusting tunings on this bridge is a lot easier than the FR, and since the most I'll be tuning up/down is a whole step everything can probably be done through the fine tuners (please confirm this).
> 
> Pickups on the S7320 are a problem. But I'll probably swap them out for some Bare Knuckle's (even though I'm in the US... =/).



yes you should be able to tune 1 full step on the fine tuners as long as you are pretty much center when you start. the neat thing with the zr trem is that if you change tunings at the headstock you dont have to fool with extra springs or the claw. it is all adjustable on the fly in the back with a wheel type adjuster!


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

Clarify that last statement please, for I'm quite uneducated when it comes to these things.


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## Enemyofreali7y (Nov 10, 2008)

I think anyone who is like "Oh my gawwwd Schecter necks are too big, I <333 my Ibby neck, and that finish only slows you down" are pussies, and need to not only look at the size of the neck, but the shape. 

Ibanez necks have very comfortable shapes, yeah, but to be honest, I think they aren't nearly as thought out as Schecter necks. My C-7 HR has a wonderful neck, from a C shape at the nut to a subtle D shape near the heel. This makes access better, sweeping and other arpeggios easier, and just makes the thing feel solid as hell.

Oh and BTW, if you have the money, don't buy the 7321. I've played a bunch, they feel generic. Go for the next best.


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

I think I'd like to _begin_ with something with an easier neck.

Are you referring to the RG7321 or the S7320 when you say 7321?


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## I_infect (Nov 10, 2008)

I have owned and/or played all the guitars mentioned, having begun playing 7 on a Ibanez RG7421. The S7320 is a much nicer guitar than the RG7321, with a different neck. If you want incredibly thin, go with that one. Personally, I favor Schecters, for many reasons... and don't let the "big fat neck" thing scare you... from my experience those statements come from players who I believe are folowing a trend, and favor Ibanez. Currently, I own 3 Schecter Hellraisers, a Blackjack, and an RG7321, and comparing the necks, they are almost identical in thickness, only varying in shape. The RG7321 is more of an unfinished, satin feel, so if you are looking for speed, I would not go there. Again if you must have an Ibanez, go for a mid-upper level model, preferably MIJ. Also, try before you buy if possible. You'll be impressed with the Schecters for the quality per dollar.


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## Enemyofreali7y (Nov 10, 2008)

G9Music said:


> I think I'd like to _begin_ with something with an easier neck.
> 
> Are you referring to the RG7321 or the S7320 when you say 7321?



Dude, the C-7 Hellraiser was my first seven, so don't try the "easier starter" thing on me 

And I was referring to the RG7321.


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## I_infect (Nov 10, 2008)

Enemyofreali7y said:


> Dude, the C-7 Hellraiser was my first seven, so don't try the "easier starter" thing on me


Badass guitars ain't they? Absolutely my favorite, even among the LTDs


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

Looking at the the specs pages for both guitars, the necks are EXACTLY the same.
RG7321 and S7320. Both are "Wizard II-7" necks.



Enemyofreali7y said:


> Dude, the C-7 Hellraiser was my first seven, so don't try the "easier starter" thing on me
> 
> And I was referring to the RG7321.


Call me a wuss, but you're talking to dude whose middle finger doesn't exceed 3" in length. I'd like to put a emoticon on there, but that statement is true with no irony.


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## I_infect (Nov 10, 2008)

G9Music said:


> Looking at the the specs pages for both guitars, the necks are EXACTLY the same.
> RG7321 and S7320. Both are "Wizard II-7" necks.
> 
> 
> Call me a wuss, but you're talking to dude whose middle finger doesn't exceed 3" in length. I'd like to put a emoticon on there, but that statement is true with no irony.



Something isn't right there, the S is a 22 fret and the RG a 24, so right there they are different. I believe it was Korean made as well where as my RG is Indonesian. It may be a wizard profile but I don't remember it being remotely near the feel of the RG, it was much nicer and an overall better feel.


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

Jesus christ... I'm glad you brought that up. With the capo multi-tuning system I had in mind, there would be no tolerance for only 22 frets. Seems like BlackJack is the only viable option now.


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## I_infect (Nov 10, 2008)

G9Music said:


> Jesus christ... I'm glad you brought that up. With the capo multi-tuning system I had in mind, there would be no tolerance for only 22 frets. Seems like BlackJack is the only viable option now.



Glad to help out. The Blackjack is the best bang for the buck, but I'd still recommend trying a few out to see what you like, if you can.


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

Local GC only had the Hellraiser, but I'm assuming the construction is fairly similar to the Blackjack's... it was light as hell. I can just imagine how alleviating it would be on the shoulder but it just felt like a toy. Current 6-string's body is swamp ash.

Within that price range, there aren't many more options, as far as I can tell off the GC website.


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## budda (Nov 10, 2008)

you need to test these guitars out, bud.

the S7320 wont be nearly as versatile as the blackjack, and i thought that was the name of the game?

we had... 4 or 5 people grab an ibanez UV, Schecter C7 HR, Dean EVO 7, carvin DC727, and Ernie Ball JP7. nobody said that the C7 had a fat neck! in fact, everyone there agreed that the schecter had a comfier neck than the carvin .

the C7's are all mahogany, as far as i know. the Loomis sig is swamp ash.


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

Maybe I should look out for more local guitar shops than the big GC...

...If I got the S7320 I'dve swapped in some new pickups. The easy adjustment of the ZR intrigued me. But turns out it only has 22 frets.

Yeah, they are. I thought Mahogany was supposed to be heavier than Swamp Ash though...?


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## budda (Nov 10, 2008)

i couldnt tell you that, however google may aid you .

do you want a trem?

tonally, the blackjack is still the most versatile guitar out of your options, by a long shot. look for a used one


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

My very first 7-string concept was for the Jeff Loomis FR... I'd have 3 D-Tuna's, one on B to drop to A, one on E to drop to D, and another on G to drop to F#. A half step drop wasn't 100&#37; guaranteed and I wasn't going to throw $1,150 out the door. 3 D-Tuna's might wreak havoc on the over all tuning. The reason I wanted an FR at first was instant access to all the tunings I'd ever need... Drop D, Baritone Tuning, and General Drop Tuning, with the latter two using a capo to get Eb standard to C standard and Drop Db to Drop Bb, respectively.

Trem sounds nice for all the tricks but complicated. ZR would allow relatively quick tuning swaps, but not the kind of instant change a D-Tuna offers. I think standard bends are good enough for now... quick question though, you know the standard Fender tremolos? You can just turn away at those pegs without doing anything to the tremolo, right?


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## budda (Nov 10, 2008)

instant access? most of us just take the 5 seconds to tune down..

usually if you want insta-tuning you *dont* go with an FR as it takes longer.

get a TOM and use the tuners as they were meant - it really doesnt take long.


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

True, true... I guess I'm just a lazy ass. I guess turning two pegs isn't that much harder than one. 

That was what the D-Tuna would be for.


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## budda (Nov 10, 2008)

yeah.... dont.


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## G9Music (Nov 10, 2008)

Alright, well thanks for everyone's tolerance and guidance... my decision will reflect the poll.


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## budda (Nov 10, 2008)

I hope you enjoy the new axe!

i definitely miss the 5-way and the sounds my C7 could get... thank goodness for push/pull pots


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## Enemyofreali7y (Nov 10, 2008)

I resent the arguement that the blackjack is more versatile than the hellraiser.

707's aren't strictly metal pickups. They give me a nice piano clean with no crunch at all on my clean setting. Turn the volume pot down and you've got yourself a very nice jazz crunch too.

To me, the choice here is looks. Blackjack is a little more simple, while the hellraiser is "fuck you" all over. Its your choice, and if your a fan of seymour duncans, then the blackjack is the way to go. Totally.


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## budda (Nov 11, 2008)

oh, 707's sound fine and will cover lots, that's not the argument.

the coil split and 5-way switch is the argument.


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## Enemyofreali7y (Nov 11, 2008)

Since when did Blackjacks come with the ability to coil split?

God, I'm stupid...


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## budda (Nov 12, 2008)

erm, since they were released i believe.


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## Bulbs (Nov 16, 2008)

Yeah, if your going to go with actives you should definately go with the Blackjack C-7 ATX for the blackouts. The blackouts are just alot more versatile imo. I think it was also a tad cheaper than the hellraiser last time I checked..


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## PlagueX1 (Nov 16, 2008)

I played a newer Hellraiser at GC with coil taps in it. It is so much more versatile that the old EMG's. Really I would like to sell my 6 string hellraiser and get that.


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## zackkynapalm (Dec 9, 2008)

I wish the blackjack looked cooler.
or just didn't have DOTS on the fretboard. I don't care that it is all black, but the dots just look lame. I'd prefer NOTHING on the fretboard.


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## the_arod (Dec 9, 2008)

uhh, correct me if i'm wrong, but the C7 Blackjack doesn't have inlays except for 12th fret, the one you're talking about is the old one with passives

http://www.drumcityguitarland.com/drumcitygl/stores/1/images/Schecter/Schecter%202008%20DIAMOND%20SERIES%20BLACKJACK-ATX%20C-7%20Aged%20Black%207-String%20Electric%20Guitar.jpg


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## G9Music (Dec 10, 2008)

That is the Schecter C7 Blackjack *ATX* with blackouts. That only has one inlay, and on the 12th fret.

One in the poll is the C7 Blackjack with two passive's, regular inlay style.

And by the way, I did end up deciding on an Ibanez.


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## CrushingAnvil (Dec 10, 2008)

C-7 Blackjack all the way.

Hellraisers have shit fretboards.



zackkynapalm said:


> I wish the blackjack looked cooler.
> or just didn't have DOTS on the fretboard. I don't care that it is all black, but the dots just look lame. I'd prefer NOTHING on the fretboard.



you must be far too metal for _just_ dots 'Zackkynapalm'...


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## Harry (Dec 10, 2008)

To people who have said the Blackout splits, that is not correct.
Check the wiring diagrams, and you'll be able to see why they can only be run in full humbucking mode.


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