# Myth vs. Fact- the Truth about Steroids



## Uncreative123 (May 30, 2013)

Inspired by the utter ignorance and stupidity coming out of the tim lambesis thread and after getting the approval of a moderator, I've taken it upon myself to create this thread. 

This is for general knowledge purposes only; This isn't a how-to guide. This doesn't mean I condone its use nor is it an admission of use.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Knowledge is power. 


This will be a very general overview; will go into specifics later if necessary. 


#1- "Steroids" 

Often misunderstood or miscategorized- there are different kinds of steroids. Corticosteroids, which have worse side-effects than Anabolic steroids, for some reason aren't demonized by the media and its use is actually ACCEPTABLE in most cases- including professional and collegiate sports. They're often used to combat inflammation. There is also Progesterone which is used in most forms of birth control and taken by millions of women every day. Anabolic steroids (herein referred to as A.S. or AS) are what most people think of when they first hear "steroids" and all the bad things associated with them. 

#2- Side-effects:

Everyone experiences different sides. No two people are a like. To say that ALL people would experience the same thing is ridiculous. Some people have a very hard time understanding this as seen in the lambesis thread. There is only one side-effect that all *male* users are guaranteed- and that is testicular atrophy.

A) Testicular Atrophy- when you supplement large amounts of Testosterone your body's HPTA starts to shut down (stops producing Testosterone because your body is getting well more than enough); In short this causes your balls to shrink. Most of the time it isn't even noticeable. Maybe 25% reduction, 50% at the most. Once you go off cycle, run your PCT (Post-cycle therapy) they come back to full-size. It's not permanent. Some people run HCG (Human chorionic-gonadatropin) while on cycle to keep their balls at full-size and it also aids in recovery because it keeps your leydig cells functioning. 


B) Baldness/hair-loss: AS does not cause baldness or hair loss. However it can speed up the process. If hair loss runs in your family, surprise surprise you will most likely be a candidate for speeding up this process. Bill Roberts wrote about two different types of Steroids- Type I and Type II; Type I being main compounds like Testosterone, Tren, Decca, Sust, etc and Type II being like Winstrol (stanazolol), dbol, anavar, Masteron etc. Most people blame drugs like Winstrol and Masteron as the culprit for hairloss and try to avoid those drugs when concerned about MPB, when that's actually not the case- type I has a far more pronounced effect on MPB (male pattern baldness) than any of the other types of drugs. And obviously the DHT based drugs (like deca) are going to be more harsh on your scalp. The only way to combat this is by taking Finasteride (propecia/proscar) some topical rogaine type shampoos and a couple other things. 



I've run out of time and I'll have to finish this later. Limited internet access over the last couple days and the next couple days. There will be a lot more on the side effects including "roid-rage", acne, and other topics including injections, half-lives, etc. Anything YOU would like to be addressed, just mention it and I'll throw it in.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (May 30, 2013)

Your balls are way bigger than any one who takes steroids to post this thread.  
Thanks for the information though man!


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## TRENCHLORD (May 31, 2013)

Most of us lifter types have already seen it, but in the case anyone hasn't;
Watch the film Bigger Faster Stronger by Mike Bell.
It's a fairly entertaining movie anyways, even if one isn't really interested in A.S..

I've posted this B4 and I'll say it again;
I'd love to try the TRT. Like everything else though it's just going on a very long list of things I want and "need" lol.

Not sure if it would produce much of a physique enhancement. It would probably greatly depend on what levels the certain Dr. would be comfortable with.

Maybe as I enter my 40s the natural decline will inspire me to move TRT up to the top of my "to do/to buy" list.
Also, after more time goes by I'd almost bet that more and more family practice physicians will become comfortable with placing older guys on it.
More insurance policys might start to cover it as well.
Maybe we'll all be covered for it now with Obamacare (sarcasm all the way there). Eric Houlder could sure use some right now, he's starting to wilt and shrivel.


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## Uncreative123 (Jun 3, 2013)

Alright, finally have a little free-time after this insane past week. We were competing at a NANBF IFPA pro-qualifier show and it was ridiculously busy and stressful. For those that don't know, NANBF/IFPA is a natural (Drug-free) organization. It's basically the natural version of IFBB; Requires polygraphs and urinalysis. My girlfriend won her division for Bikini which is crazy since it was her first show. Overall it was a great experience and weekend. I'll post pics in my transformation thread.




C) Acne- some people break out on their face, some people break out on their chest or back...and some people's skin actually clears up. Again everyone is affected differently.

D) I feel like this should've been covered under testicular atrophy and I just kind of forgot. A lot of times I hear people talking about AS making your dick shrink, when they actually mean your balls. So to clarify, your dick doesn't shrink and that makes about as much sense as saying taking nasal spray shrinks your nose. If anything, with more blood flowing to that area I'd say you'd be more prone to the opposite happening. Again it depends on the compounds you take- some drugs like Deca and Tren can be very harsh on your libido (hence the phrase, "deca-dick") and some guys chose to take cialis or viagra (you don't have to) but other drugs like straight up Test (any kind) or dbol will have you climbing the walls and just horny as ..... Most girls who have a husband or boyfriend on cycle seem to enjoy their guy being on cycle, lol.

E) "Roid-rage"- There's no such thing. It's as simple as that. If you are an unstable person, yeah they are going to make you that much more unstable..but then again, a lot of other things and medications are probably going to cause that too. If you are mentally unstable or even been diagnosed with a mental disorder you should never consider taking steroids. I wish the same would be said of alcohol. The vast majority of people are not affected by this. Most people feel as if they're in a better mood or no different at all. I can see people maybe getting more cocky because they're a little bigger and a little stronger, but aside from that, anything reporting "roid-rage" (government institution or not) is horseshit. 

F) Death/organ failure/etc.

Steroids don't cause people to die or lead to their death due to some adverse reaction. There have been no scientific studies showing direct links to anabolic steroids and death. People will point to Zyzz, but they won't point to his family history of heart disease/conditions and I don't think an autopsy was ever made public? To quote the CDC statistics from 2005 from Bigger Stronger Faster:

75,000 People a year die from Alcohol
435,000 people a year die from Tobacco
and deaths from anabolic steroids......: 3

The dangers of steroids are VASTLY over-exaggerated. Very comparable to the situation with Pitbulls. More people a year die from being hit on the head by coconuts or just falling down the stairs. 

Yes, if steroids are done the wrong way it can be dangerous. Oral steroids (like dobl, winstrol, anavar, etc.) are hepatoxic and can be very harsh on your liver if taken in too high dosages and for too long of a time...and if consuming alcohol while on cycle. This is why it's recommended to get blood panels done before, during, and after cycle. Taking things like milk thistle can help ease the burden on your liver. 
Blood Pressure can and will probably go up, again more so depending on the compounds you take (esepcially dbol and EQ). Taking red yeast rice can help keep cholesterol and BP in check. It's definitely something that needs to be monitored. And it's definitely a reason why you should be eating CLEAN while on cycle- not eating pizza, burgers, and fries.



Other misconceptions:

Steroids are taking intramuscularly- not intravenously. There's no wrapping a band around your arm or whatever. If you were to inject into a vein or nerve ending you could potentially die. There are specific injection sites- the safest being delts, quads, glutes, and the ventro-gluteal site. People often think the ass/glutes is the safest site, I would disagree since it's hard to reach and because the sciatic nerve runs very close to that area and if you hit that, good luck with the rest of your life. 

Steroids are and aren't a miracle drug. You can sit on a couch and eat potato chips and probably get bigger, but if that's what you're going to do when taking them, you shouldn't even bother wasting your money. You still have to do the work. Still have to eat clean- I would say even cleaner. Still have to keep an eye on everything.

Pro-hormones are not a safe-alternative to steroids since you can buy them at GNC/Complete Nutrition/Wherever. They are MORE dangerous and often times you can't buy real PCT drugs there and then you're in for a really, really rough road to recovery- if you recover at all. So many kids have ended up on TRT for the rest of their lives because of this. I don't understand how there hasn't been lawsuit after lawsuit against these stores.


That's it for now. Next one will probably be the last informational one- but I'm going to go over TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy), bias in the media, and half-lives.

Again, any questions, feel free to ask.


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## nangillala (Jun 4, 2013)

It's a very informative and important thread, but whenever you say something (especially when other opinions exist) it would be cool to back it up with additional information/links/studies. 

And for everyone else: While watching "Bigger Faster Stronger" you should also consider watching "Doping Forever", which shows quite the opposite and also backs it up with medical tests (on a single test-subject, though). So it should be seen more as entertainment, than education 

P.S.: I really enjoy your training/meal tips and the transformation thread.


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## TRENCHLORD (Jun 6, 2013)

nangillala said:


> And for everyone else: While watching "Bigger Faster Stronger" you should also consider watching "Doping Forever", which shows quite the opposite and also backs it up with medical tests (on a single test-subject, though). So it should be seen more as entertainment, than education


 
Well, some might see it as pro-steroid, but that's really not what I take away from watching B.F.S..

He makes a point to show how both his brothers are somewhat mentally/psychologically "addicted" to being on the juice, and how the oldest brother is even probably emotionally dependent on the attention to himself that steroids play a heavy part in him being able to receive from others (pro-wrestling LMFAO).

I guess my point is just that the movie leaves a lot open to interpretation and later verification. Like in many instances he sites that there haven't been any wide-reaching long-term studies done, so who really knows what the effects will be on guys with 20-30 even 40yrs of heavy use under their belt.
I will check out the movie you referenced though, it's good to get as much info as possible from different sources to compare.

One thing is 4sure though. As a society we are sending very mixed messages to our youth in regards to P.E.D.'s.
I go back to the mag-rak at any store and there is FLEX and other mags highlighting the physiques and accomplishments of the sport's top size dawgs, then I get home, turn on the TV, and there is a sportcenter report on M.L.B.'s latest crackdown on dozens of players consisting of possible season long bans and no doubt long-term character defamation all stemming from some very shadey dude's accusations and hand-written names in a little black book lol.

It's like on one hand we say; The witch-hunt is on, lets get'm, even before anything is proven in a way that excludes reasonable doubt.
(and there's mucho reasonable doubt with this and other cases against athletes that involve shadey dudes and little black books with hand-written and hand-dated "roid notes" lol.

Then on the other hand, the huge dietary supplement industry is totally promoting (helped by all the nations top retailers and advertisers) the people who are the very best at using the same sort of substances . (and the very best at training and diet to be fair, not to mention some of the best genetics for the sport)


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## Datura (Jun 6, 2013)

Finally someone else who understands.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Jun 8, 2013)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Your balls are way bigger than any one who takes steroids to post this thread.
> Thanks for the information though man!


 someone neg-repped me saying "ffs" to this post. I could understand if it was anything other than that post, but I don't see a damn thing wrong with saying thanks. So anonymous negger...


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## Hollowway (Jun 8, 2013)

This is good info. I have a friend who is a professional body builder and he uses, and says that all professionals do. It sounds like its like pretty much everything else in that education about it is necessary, moderation is a good idea, and side effects exist.

The only thing I'd say about your thread is that for some of the things you say it's a myth, but then go on to say it occurs to some people. 'Roid rage may not occur to 100% of the people, but as you said, it can take some people from normal to very feisty, so in that sense it does exist. It would be like saying there's no such thing as an angry drunk, because lots of people become happy. Anyway, I just point it out, because it seems pretty clear you are in full support of steroids, and I don't want it to seem too biased. 

Edit: Great. For weeks I've had banner ads for Asian dating sites. Now? Male breast reduction meds. THANKS A LOT, PREDICTIVE ADS!  I want my Asian ladies back.


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## Yo_Wattup (Jun 8, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> E) "Roid-rage"- There's no such thing.



I'm sorry, but A.Ss increase testosterone, correct? Then *by definition*, there must be some truth to 'roid rage' as testosterone = aggression (also by definition)


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## Uncreative123 (Jun 8, 2013)

Yo_Wattup said:


> I'm sorry, but A.Ss increase testosterone, correct? Then *by definition*, there must be some truth to 'roid rage' as testosterone = aggression (also by definition)




Testosterone does not = aggression. That is completely absurd. Nor is that any kind of definition of Testosterone or aggression. I'm not sure you even entirely know what you're saying. You understand that women produce Testosterone in their bodies right? At much smaller doses than men...certainly does not keep them from aggression. 

And no, AS does not increase Testosterone. AS causes your body to shutdown its test. production because it's being supplemented with synthetic test. I thought I made that very clear in the above posts which you clearly didn't read through well enough. 


Here's your article:

*Testosterone does not induce aggression*

Published: Tuesday, December 8, 2009 - 12:58 in Psychology & Sociology 
New scientific evidence refutes the preconception that testosterone causes aggressive, egocentric, and risky behavior. A study at the Universities of Zurich and Royal Holloway London with more than 120 experimental subjects has shown that the sexual hormone with the poor reputation can encourage fair behaviors if this serves to ensure one's own status. Popular scientific literature, art, and the media have been attributing the roll of aggression to the arguably best known sexual hormone for decades. Research appeared to confirm this  the castration of male rodents evidently led to a reduction in combativeness among the animals. The prejudice thus grew over decades that testosterone causes aggressive, risky, and egocentric behavior. The inference from these experiments with animals that testosterone produces the same effects in humans has proven to be false, however, as a combined study by neuroscientist Christoph Eisenegger and economist Ernst Fehr, both of the University of Zurich, and economist Michael Naef of Royal Holloway in London demonstrates. "We wanted to verify how the hormone affects social behavior," Dr. Christoph Eisenegger explains, adding, "we were interested in the question: what is truth, and what is myth?"
For the study, published in the renowned journal _Nature_, some 120 test subjects took part in a behavioral experiment where the distribution of a real amount of money was decided. The rules allowed both fair and unfair offers. The negotiating partner could subsequently accept or decline the offer. The fairer the offer, the less probable a refusal by the negotiating partner. If no agreement was reached, neither party earned anything.
Before the game the test subjects were administered either a dose of 0.5 mg testosterone or a corresponding placebo. "If one were to believe the common opinion, we would expect subjects who received testosterone to adopt aggressive, egocentric, and risky strategies  regardless of the possibly negative consequences on the negotiation process," Eisenegger elucidates. 
*Fairer with testosterone *
The study's results, however, contradict this view sharply. Test subjects with an artificially enhanced testosterone level generally made better, fairer offers than those who received placebos, thus reducing the risk of a rejection of their offer to a minimum._* "The preconception that testosterone only causes aggressive or egoistic behavior in humans is thus clearly refuted," sums up Eisenegger.*_ Instead, the findings suggest that the hormone increases the sensitivity for status. For animal species with relatively simple social systems, an increased awareness for status may express itself in aggressiveness. "In the socially complex human environment, pro-social behavior secures status, and not aggression," surmises study co-author Michael Naef from Royal Holloway London. "The interplay between testosterone and the socially differentiated environment of humans, and not testosterone itself, probably causes fair or aggressive behavior".
Moreover the study shows that the popular wisdom that the hormone causes aggression is apparently deeply entrenched: those test subjects who believed they had received the testosterone compound and not the placebo stood out with their conspicuously unfair offers. It is possible that these persons exploited the popular wisdom to legitimate their unfair actions. Economist Michael Naef states: _*"It appears that it is not testosterone itself that induces aggressiveness, but rather the myth surrounding the hormone. In a society where qualities and manners of behavior are increasingly traced to biological causes and thereby partly legitimated, this should make us sit up and take notice." The study clearly demonstrates the influence of both social as well as biological factors on human behavior.*_
*Source: University of Zurich"*



There are dozens of these articles. Google is only one new tab away.


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## Uncreative123 (Jun 8, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> This is good info. I have a friend who is a professional body builder and he uses, and says that all professionals do. It sounds like its like pretty much everything else in that education about it is necessary, moderation is a good idea, and side effects exist.



Yes.



> The only thing I'd say about your thread is that for some of the things you say it's a myth, but then go on to say it occurs to some people. 'Roid rage may not occur to 100% of the people, but as you said, it can take some people from normal to very feisty, so in that sense it does exist. It would be like saying there's no such thing as an angry drunk, because lots of people become happy. Anyway, I just point it out, because it seems pretty clear you are in full support of steroids, and I don't want it to seem too biased.



No, I didn't say it 'occurs in some people'- I said if you are already mentally unstable it's only probably going to make you more so and you shouldn't consider using it in the first place. If you're an asshole, you may become a bigger asshole- but that is a far cry from RAGE and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the drugs themselves. I've seen a lot of people who have just naturally gotten bigger/stronger act in the same manner. I never said it takes 'people from being normal to very feisty'. I never said that and I never would say that because it's not true. 
For the most your attitude doesn't change at all, unless it's for the better because of a more positive outlook. I mean if this were all true wouldn't we be hearing about rage-induced Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT) incidents? It's estimated there are over 6 million people in the U.S. that take steroids, I'm guessing at least 1/5th of them are on doctor-prescribed TRT. Are doctors prescribing Testosterone knowing that it induces rage and out of control behavior? Unlikely. The media has gotten most people "twisted".

More on TRT later...


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## VBCheeseGrater (Jun 8, 2013)

Uncreative123 said:


> The dangers of steroids are VASTLY over-exaggerated. Very comparable to the situation with Pitbulls.



You may want to look up some stats on lethal dog attacks in the US before making this comparison - does not bode well for your argument.


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## Idontpersonally (Aug 1, 2013)




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