# Petrucci's Rock Discipline: A good start or too advanced?



## gunch (Apr 9, 2018)

My technique and theory is basically non existent, I saw a Ben Eller video today where he recommended it. I'm thinking about getting some of Troy Stetina's books (Speed Mechanics and Fretboard Mastery to start with) but I need at least one book to really grind at and kick my ass (and the PDF is free and the DVD is on youtube) Heard Gilberts videos are quite essential too

What say ye


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 9, 2018)

silverabyss said:


> My technique and theory is basically non existent, I saw a Ben Eller video today where he recommended it. I'm thinking about getting some of Troy Stetina's books (Speed Mechanics and Fretboard Mastery to start with) but I need at least one book to really grind at and kick my ass (and the PDF is free and the DVD is on youtube) Heard Gilberts videos are quite essential too
> 
> What say ye


buy a scale book. practice alt picking ad nauseam. bonus points if you can go through multiple positions of the same scale without flubbing. I'd say that's the bare minimum if you want a minor grasp on scales *pun not intended* The guitar grimoire has a metric ton of useful info. Same with the guitar technique encyclopedia.
Petrucci's stuff is really good too, especially if you want to work on your sweeps/alt picking.
brett garsed's instructionals are really good and are floating around on youtube. marshall harrison/allen hinds also have some excellent stuff on actual legato (ie like holdsworth).
whenever I get bored of trying to get better at playing scales/metal I find another genre and try to nick riffs or techniques from them/incorporate them back into metal.


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## gunch (Apr 9, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> brett garsed's instructionals are really good and are floating around on youtube


Rock Fusion?


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 9, 2018)

silverabyss said:


> Rock Fusion?


yeah that one.


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## Redwind (Apr 10, 2018)

best instructional vid I ever skipped to :50 and never watched the rest of!


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## Eptaceros (Apr 10, 2018)

I wouldn't consider Rock Discipline too advanced. You just take the resources at your own pace. Hell, I spent 2 years learning Necrophagist songs when I've only been playing for a couple years. For the majority of those 2 years, I just played things around half speed and slowly built speed as the hours amassed.


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## bostjan (Apr 10, 2018)

The dubbed version is hilarious:



But yeah, it's probably not the best place to start. IMO - it's a decent resource to go to if you feel you've hit a wall with techniques. The basic stuff he covers, like stretching out before and after playing, I can simply tell you in the thread - stretch your elbows, fingers, and wrists, before and after playing. 

In fact, probably instructional videos in general aren't really the best resource if you feel you have developed bad technique or if you are getting frustrated trying to develop any techniques. Instead, maybe try a lesson or two in real time, so that your instructor can point out technique problems as feedback.


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## gunch (Apr 10, 2018)

At the same time I wish Vogg, Luc Lemay, Shaune Kelly or Doug Cerrito made instructional videos


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Apr 10, 2018)

Frank Gambale, Speed Picking.
Essential to good technique.

Also, Marty Freidman has a really good one where he spends a considerable time going over building phrasing.


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## Drew (Apr 10, 2018)

I'd suggest grabbing Speed Mechanics for Lead Guitar first - it's a pretty good primer on the building blocks of the technique you'll need for advanced "shred" playing. 

That said, neither that nor Rock Dicipline really get into theory all that far. Learning a whole bunch of scales is a start, but you're going to want something on how and where to use them. Honestly, I don't even know where I'd start for recommending a book on that subject - I'm not really aware of a ton of guitar-centric intro to theory books that would give you at least enough of a foundation to cover rock guitar.


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## gunch (Apr 10, 2018)

FWIW Id like to achieve some modicum of technique before I get too far down the theory rabbit hole (I already kind of understand that notes on the fretboard go in a certain order cross all 6 strings and the note of each string is the starting point and it starts over again at fret 12 but I admit I don’t have a shit’s clue about modes and intervals and only have a cursory understanding of the difference between major and minor tonality 

Definitely going to try to get speed mechanics though, I got about 20 minutes into rock discipline and the fretting hand stretches made my brain explode


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## eightsixboy (Apr 10, 2018)

Depends on what you want to focus on. If you want to focus on alt picking then this is probably the best place to start, or one of Frank Gambales instructional.

The Brett Garsed one is very good as well but obviously more legato and theory based.

The Steve Morse one is also great for picking exercises.


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## gunch (Apr 10, 2018)

I guess I want the following things: 

-chord accuracy and grip strength/proper muting (and fretting hand dex for weird chords)
-fast and rythmically accurate down picked chromatic chug runs and tremolo picking (death metal riffing) 
-krallice-like black metal strumming/trem picking speed 
-that weird alt-picking arpeggiated chord sound like in Necrophagist riffs and Skin Coffin
-pinches 

before siccckkk shreds/lead skill, (vibrato, legato, bends, sweeps)

Concerns

-my fingers are thick and short as hell to the point where if I'm doing chromatic exercises its almost like I can't bend my wrist and fingers enough around to fret 1-4 on the low string without PAAAAIN even wearing my guitar high on a strap. Even doing power chords that high (elevation) on the neck is uncomfortable and its having me wonder how the FUCK do guys get on with baritones let along fender scale. Do I just need to stretch my left wrist and fingers more? 

smack me if I'm being to much of a weenie


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 10, 2018)

silverabyss said:


> I guess I want the following things:
> 
> -chord accuracy and grip strength/proper muting (and fretting hand dex for weird chords)
> -fast and rythmically accurate down picked chromatic chug runs and tremolo picking (death metal riffing)
> ...


the only way to get good at any of that stuff is to practice like a mother fucker. remember how I told you to do scale runs to work on your alt picking? that works for trem picking or down picking or chromatics too. pinch harmonics are all about finding the right harmonic node and having the right pick attack (ie go watch some youtube vids on it). 
those scale runs? yeah you can also practice string skipping or build arpeggios out of them (arppegios are just chords that you pick each note individually in). 
Pain is bad. warm up more, stretch more, play more. Good technique really helps mitigate pain in the long run. I used to trem pick more with my elbow, and I started getting tennis elbow, now I trem pick more with my wrist and a little bit of elbow and have no problems.
Crawl, walk, and then you can run.


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## TheTrooper (Apr 13, 2018)

Rock Discipline is great, but it doesn't really cover what You're after.
There are some INCREDIBLE exercises for isolating picking across the strings and picked arpeggios, but most are (as called by John) "Scale fragments".
Chord building is limited compared to the other stuff, but some of the stuff is really hard to master the way JP played it.
Great chromatic lines, and the introduction to each chapter has some improvs that are fantastic.


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## gunch (Apr 13, 2018)

how is Rick Beato?


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## pfizer (Apr 14, 2018)

Rock Discipline is really more for technique than theory. 

John's a good instructor and the exercises in his vid are pretty effective but I'd recommend supplementing his video with something else. RD has a lot of great exercises but it's called "discipline" for a reason -- it's _work_, and the examples aren't exactly fun to play. They _will_ improve your technique though; even the warm-ups are quite tricky.

Personally, I'd try and track down copies of Lick Library featuring Danny Gill. He's a great instructor and his Rock Guitar in 6 Weeks or his Rock Essentials/Concepts/Advanced series should get you up and running with the basic pentatonic and blues scales quickly. 

Another great guy to learn theory from is Justin Sandercoe -- a ton of his stuff is up for free on Youtube. Start with his Beginner Course, then you can go to his Intermediate Course and go to his Blues Lead and Rhythm courses. For completeness, Justin's course is the way to go; he goes over rhythm, chords, scales, time signatures, ear training, etc.


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## gunch (Apr 14, 2018)

pfizer said:


> Rock Discipline is really more for technique than theory.
> 
> John's a good instructor and the exercises in his vid are pretty effective but I'd recommend supplementing his video with something else. RD has a lot of great exercises but it's called "discipline" for a reason -- it's _work_, and the examples aren't exactly fun to play. They _will_ improve your technique though; even the warm-ups are quite tricky.
> 
> ...




Sweet, I was starting to get option paralysis from all these suggestions, I'll look into Sandercoe and Lick Library (Andy James Metal Rhythm in 6 weeks seems like 100% what I'm looking for)


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## justin_time (Apr 14, 2018)

+1 for Justin Sandercoe if you are looking at finding and closing gaps to become a more well-rounded guitar player. Practice routines are not based solely on technique - emphasis is placed on transcribing, music theory, and ear training. Of course if you just want to become a shredder playing a million notes a second then spending most of your practice time on technique maybe makes sense.

I personally prefer to find a couple riffs from songs that I like to practice on for improving a specific technique, it makes it a bit more fun.


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## Zalbu (Apr 14, 2018)

Rick Beato is _very _advanced and mostly covers jazz theory and similar stuff, so I wouldn't recommend him, although he did just release a 40 minute video about the basics of music theory that's worth checking out.



Some guys on Youtube I've found recently that explains things in ways that makes sense to me are Ross Campbell, The-Art-Of-Guitar and Robert Baker.

But the first thing you should do before learning the scales is to watch these two videos, these are the things I wish I knew when I started learning theory.





The TL;DW is learn the notes of the fretboard, learn intervals and learn what makes the modes sound different to each other, and what notes are raised or lowered. For example, the Lydian scale is the Major scale with a raised fourth and the Phrygian scale is the Minor scale with a lowered second. Don't just learn the shapes of the modes on the fretboard, you need to be able to play them all over the neck and not just locked into one position.

A good way to practice this is to learn the Major and Minor scale, and then look at what notes need to be raised or lowered to play the different modes instead of just looking at the shapes.


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## jskershaw (Apr 15, 2018)

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but a lot of really great modern players cite buying this DVD as the point at which they really saw a difference in their playing. As with everything, take it slowly at first, there's a lot on the DVD to digest.


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## Zender (Apr 15, 2018)

TLR RD is not "too advanced" but it really does take discipline, and it misses out on basic technique on what to do exactly with your hands. It's tabs, but not which finger goes where, and how to go from string to string. Also, no description of how to mute all over the place.

That being said.

RD has some very nice exercises, but it is missing essentials. Take the right-hand string skipping excersise for instance. You need to be muting everyhting you don't want to hear, but RD does not go into any details i nhow to do that. Also, if you look at the video, you see Petrucci "rolling" his ringfinger from the 4th to 5th string in that exercise. But you won't notice this unless you've been shown that technique at least once.
Years ago, I tried working through it by myself, but gave up. Everything was messy and noisy. Now I have a new teacher, one who actually did show me muting techniques, string rolling, and other stuff. And now RD makes sense I can actually play the examples (albeit slowly).

RD is something that can really supplement your learning, but it's not a standalone book. Metal-specific I went with Stetina's series (rhythm 1&2, lead 1&2, fretboard mastery, speed mechanics... ). And am currently still working my way through all that. Whilst RD is also on the side, and anything I can find only that tickles my fancy. I'm a huge Steve Morse en John Petrucci fan, and they both made some awesome instruction videos.

This is next to everything that my teacher gives me, which for the last year has been almost exclusively patterns over scales. III, II, I, IV, III, II, V, IV, III, VI, V, IV, VII, VI, V, VIII, VII, VI For instance, over an A pentatonic minor in the 5th position. I've done alot of these sequences. (2 notes, 3 notes, 4 notes) in all directions, such that now whenever I land on one of the notes of such a scale, I can flow to any other note with a nice flourishing of other notes within the scale or just run op or down in that scale on that position, or shift from one position to another.
Part one of my lessons with my teacher is this, the second is playing technique, wherein the focus lies with playing as clean as possible, whilst the gain is dimed, and I don't have a noice gate. Trust me, you'll learn to mute ALL THE THINGS. Although it can take me hours to get a sequence silent, it gets easier each time.

One day I will play "Tumeni notes" they way it should be played. 

Side-note, I'm 35... and only started serious playing a few years ago. I've replaced youthful enthousiasm with extreme perseverence, and the ability to play one scale on one position for half an hour without loosing focus whilst excersising. Discipline is on my side.


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## gunch (Apr 15, 2018)

Zender said:


> TLR RD is not "too advanced" but it really does take discipline, and it misses out on basic technique on what to do exactly with your hands. It's tabs, but not which finger goes where, and how to go from string to string. Also, no description of how to mute all over the place.
> 
> That being said.
> 
> ...



FWIW I farted around with a cheap musicyo kramer for 2-3 years as a teen but got waylaid by anime and video games, now I'm 29 basically starting over again without any aspirations other than making a few death metal and death/metalcore cover videos on youtube when(if ever) I "git gud"


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## NateFalcon (Apr 15, 2018)

JP’s receding hairline is pretty advanced...


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## Zender (Apr 16, 2018)

NateFalcon said:


> JP’s receding hairline is pretty advanced...



So is his beard.


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## prlgmnr (Apr 17, 2018)

NateFalcon said:


> JP’s receding hairline is pretty advanced...


Any day now it's going to recede all the way and he can finally reveal that he's just been Kerry King this whole time.


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## NateFalcon (Apr 17, 2018)

Man, he’d have to REALLY dumb down his playing while being Kerry...

...And have a split personality shared with a total dick!


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## NateFalcon (Apr 17, 2018)

Troy Stetina is badass!! Btw...I learned the ‘metal lead guitar’ book, I thought the voice intro’s and song names were corny but I definitely improved my dexterity on scales and whatnot...maybe a good step before Petrucci’s Discipline


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## khm (Apr 20, 2018)

I thought Petrucci's Wild Stringdom was pretty useful as well as Troy Stetinas Speed Mechanics for Leads Guitar, I also made sure I rolled off any gain when trying up my faster picking, as it made me concentrate more on precision and technique, then when I whacked the lead channel back on, it was so much clearer and tighter! I have to thank my old man for that idea, when I was a kid all I wanted to learn was heavy metal, but he refused to buy me a distortion pedal until I could play all his favorite hank Marvin and the Shadows tracks!! Apache still haunts my nightmares all these years later!


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## Deadpool_25 (Apr 23, 2018)

@silverabyss , your story sounds somewhat familiar. I can tell you I have a TON of DVDs, books, and e-lessons. Rock Discipline is often recommended and I can see why it's highly respected but I just didn't jive with it (yet).

For starting out, I like Troy Stetina's stuff (I have Metal Rhythm, Metal Lead, and Fretboard Logic). There's one thing Troy said that I haven't heard anyone else say (although I'm sure others must have). He said (paraphrasing) that you should learn techniques that are right for whatever level you're currently at. That seems pretty obvious but many lesson materials quickly have you learning things you haven't been properly positioned to learn. Often they're somewhat out of context as well which is fine later on, but in the early stages can get boring. For example, practicing chord changes and scales out of context, though having a great deal of value, can get boring. Of course, if you have tons of fun practicing chord changes and scales on their own, do that.


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## devastone (May 16, 2018)

Stetina's stuff is great, definitely sounds like Speed Mechanics is a good first choice. The Lead books are great also (went through them a couple of decades ago).


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## LiveOVErdrive (May 20, 2018)

A teacher is the best place to start if you can afford lessons.

Rock discipline is pretty hilarious. I mean the general message (start slow and work up with the metronome) is a good one, but petrucci himself is just so far beyond the skill of a normal human that when he "starts slow" it is still comically fast.

+1 for Guitar grimoire exercise book and a metronome too.


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## groverj3 (Jun 12, 2018)

Rock Discipline is a great resource for exercises. I never actually worked through it all in sequence though. Most exercises I do to keep my picking in shape are either from that or Speed Kills, Michael Angelo Batio's old instructional video. I, ironically, found Speed Kills to be more "musical" than RD. Batio's exercises are scalar runs and sweeping, rather than chromatic runs and exercises purely meant as a finger workout as in RD. Speed Kills also has lots of 3 note per string stuff, which forces you do learn different string switching techniques, whether or not you notice it, solely because you must change strings after both up and downstrokes.

I, personally, would find 5 or 6 exercises from RD/others and work them consistently. Find ones that focus on different aspects of picking, string changes on up vs down strokes, combinations thereof, string skipping, and 1 note per string stuff. Rather than actually working through it all in order. Don't forget to turn some into endurance challenges, too. Pick a speed on the upper end of moderate and set a timer for 2 or 3 minutes, loop it until the timer is done. Also pick one or two that you can do "burst" exercises to. You'll find that if you pick a < 8 16th note phrase it is not hard to reach 180/190bpm with some consistent practice. This is also a good warm up right when you pick up the guitar (I hate the 1234, 1234 stuff on adjacent strings). Also, ignore advice about gradually increasing BPM. Jump 5-10 BPM if you can handle it. Spend some time at speeds where you feel like you're thiiiiis close to falling off the beat, live there for a good while. You need to internalize the speeds and what it feels like. Picking fast is not like picking slow, neither from a mental or physical standpoint.

What Rock Discipline, and EVERY other resource is lacking, is in-depth analysis of picking mechanics. Not just exercises that this or that player think are good to work on. Or, if they make mention of it players say things like "you should pick fast like you pick slow" and then proceed to break their own rules when they play examples. It's incredibly frustrating, and has been for me for a very long time. I think that this is because some people naturally gravitate to certain motions, which also happen to be very efficient, and others need very in-depth instruction into those motions. However, the former group doesn't understand why such things don't come naturally to everyone and/or have never actually mechanically examined their own playing. Troy Grady's Cracking the Code videos are the only thing I've found to not be complete nonsense in this respect. The important mechanical aspects are in the first video of the series, and that one is free on youtube (so, no need to pay for the whole thing). They're more of a thing to watch and be aware of when you're trying to play a phrase and to inteneralize the motions so they do start happening naturally, rather than spending lots of time intensely studying it. Like, when you have a run you can't really play, try adjusting your pick slanting, etc.

This is only for the mechanical aspects of picking technique training though. Not even getting to improvisation, fretboard knowledge, vibrato, etc. However, it all links together to some degree. Rock Discipline, while a great collection of exercises, is not a comprehensive instructional method.


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