# Nazgul vs Black Winter



## Johnno106

Hi guys, long-time lurker and first-time poster here!

Was hoping for a bit of insight from you knowledgable folks. I've been dying to try the Seymour Duncan Black Winters and Nazgul/Sentient sets since they were first released and I'm finally taking the plunge.

Looking to put one in my ash-winged Mayones Regius 6 and and another in my ESP Horizon NT-II, but not sure which is better suited for which. The Mayones will likely be tuned to C# (occasionally tuned drop B) and the Horizon to C (occasionally tuned drop C) but it may end up going the other way  I play mostly metal (think old In Flames, Decapitated, Fear Factory but not really looking for any of those particular tones so much) but love good cleans and being able to do some smoother/less heavy stuff too and I'll be using them with an ENGL Powerball and Orange 2x12. Would love a big, thick mid-heavy tone to battle the ENGL's slightly scooped nature.

So what do you guys reckon; which beast gets which? What are the general tonal differences between them both?


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## Zhysick

Nazgul for the mahogany guitar and Blackwinters for the ash guitar...

That would be my choice.

The Nazgul is brighter/harsher/snappier than the Blackwinters so I would like them more in a "darker" guitar like the ESP while the BlackWinters are more "flat EQ" so better for a brighter guitar like one made out of ash.


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## TheRileyOBrien

I have the black winters in a mahogany guitar and they sound amazing. That being said...given your choices I would go with what Zhysick said. 

If it were up to me I would put the black winters in the esp and get something else for the mayones.


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## Johnno106

Thanks for the input. I was leaning towards the Nazgul in the Horizon so it's good to know that's the general consensus.

TheRileyOBrien; what would be your choice for the Regius? I'm open to suggestions! Been kinda fancying a Dimarzio Dominion in it...


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## Mike

Zhysick said:


> Nazgul for the mahogany guitar and Blackwinters for the ash guitar...
> 
> That would be my choice.
> 
> The Nazgul is brighter/harsher/snappier than the Blackwinters so I would like them more in a "darker" guitar like the ESP while the BlackWinters are more "flat EQ" so better for a brighter guitar like one made out of ash.



Seems kind of backwards to me 

Personally I found the BW brighter with a nice midrange grind. I'd put that in mahogany. The Nazgul has more low mids that would add some body to ash. The high mid spike may or may not work well with ash though.


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## Zhysick

Mike said:


> The high mid spike may or may not work well with ash though.



That's why I would install the Nazgul in the mahogany bodied guitar. That mid-spike is excessively present and dominant in the Nazgul... but hey! Lots of people like the KM7 and that one is ash bodied and comes stock with the Nazgul...


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## Mike

The nazgul low mids are powerful too though and that could get muddy in mahogany.


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## crankyrayhanky

I have a KM7 and I'm about ready to swap out the Nazgul. It is clear and tight, but lacks organic girth. Probably awesome for some players who like fast palm muted single notes, but yeah, the hi mid spikey thing is always there...I'll get some BKs when I get the $


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## jc986

I had Black Winters in my SL2H and thought they sounded good but ultimately too bright and treble heavy. I moved the Black Winters to a mahogany bodied Schecter where they sound awesome. 

I put a Nazgul in my SL2H and it's perfect for the Alder/Maple/Ebony wood combo. 

My general impression is that the Nazgul could easily be too dark / borderline muddy in a mahogany guitar, and that the Black Winter's work best in a neutral/darker sounding guitar.


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## RustInPeace

As an owner of a KM7 with black winters I can highly suggest getting black winters in everything.


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## Shask

The Nazgul/Sentient came stock in my Schecter Banshee, and I am loving it!

Very tight pickup with some very aggressive upper mids!


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## Zhysick

Hahahahah... it's amazing how different are our opinions... poor Johnno!!

Well, this things happens when you ask about something that is absolutely subjective like tone and feel of a pickup...

I found the Nazgul in mahogany extremely articulate, tight and clear and I even wanted a bit more low end... and it was in an 8 string guitar tuned to E1... in the Basswood RG8 they sounded a bit too harsh for my taste but amazing anyway, but I changed the magnet there to an A5 one to smooth out a bit those harsh highs...

It's really amazing how everyone really feel different a pickup  I love this thread!


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## Johnno106

My poor poor head... Haha. 

Thanks for all the opinions guys, I value them all! A friend has recommended Bare Knuckle Blackhawks to me, and I do see a lot of guys with them in their Regius'. Would they be a good fit? Better suited than the Black Winter or Nazgul? A lot of people seem to say there rather bright and djenty, which would be the opposite of what I'm going for I guess.


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## KailM

^^Every demo of BKP pups sounds djenty to me. 

I haven't tried Nazguls, but I can share my experiences with the Black Winters:

Amazing set. Beyond amazing. I have them in a Mahogany guitar, and they're still fairly bright. As advertised, they are pretty balanced in every EQ region. Not overwhelming lows, but they are present. Mids get a nice, brutal grind, but not djenty at all. Highs are bright, but not piercing. As stated, they are pretty bright pickups, but that brightness gets more and more beneficial as you tune lower. They are amazingly responsive to picking dynamics and palm muting pressures. Currently my guitar is tuned to C# Standard and it sounds brutal as sh#$. I've had it in D Standard and D# Standard as well.

Cleans are legendary. Clear, yet warm. Even my 6505 has great cleans with them.


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## MattThePenguin

Johnno106 said:


> My poor poor head... Haha.
> 
> Thanks for all the opinions guys, I value them all! A friend has recommended Bare Knuckle Blackhawks to me, and I do see a lot of guys with them in their Regius'. Would they be a good fit? Better suited than the Black Winter or Nazgul? A lot of people seem to say there rather bright and djenty, which would be the opposite of what I'm going for I guess.




Paul in BTBAM uses Black Hawks, they* are anything but djenty. The Nazgul is EXTREMELY djenty.

they* as in BTBAM, not the Black Hawks.


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## jc986

MattThePenguin said:


> Paul in BTBAM uses Black Hawks, they* are anything but djenty. The Nazgul is EXTREMELY djenty.
> 
> they* as in BTBAM, not the Black Hawks.



I wouldn't describe the Nazgul (or any pickup for that matter) as djenty. In my experience pretty much any pickup through the right rig and playing style can sound "djenty". I don't really care for the djent style or the tone that typically accompanies it, but the Nazgul is one of my favorite pickups. 

The reason many of the Black Hawks demos sound Djenty is due to the way the amps have been dialed in and due to the player doing the demo.


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## Mike

jc986 said:


> I wouldn't describe the Nazgul (or any pickup for that matter) as djenty. In my experience pretty much any pickup through the right rig and playing style can sound "djenty".



Mhmm preach it brother. 110% agree. Pickups are such a small part of the equation of tone. You can djent with a single coil very easily too but that's by no means their intention. Gear will dictate the style and tone much more so than a pickup ever will.


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## KailM

^^Well could someone please do some demos of BKP pups that are NOT djent?

Because I've pretty much always ruled them out because that's all I've ever heard out of them.


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## jc986

The demos on BKP's website aren't all djent.


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## gay4ass

I have both will give you a little comparison between both.

Black Winters have a flat eq response with a certain grim in the upper end. They sound gnarly and sound plenty ballsy for heavy thick chunky riffs. 

Nazguls are less bassy and has this upper mids spike that is geared more for the djenty sound. They sound sweeter for leads just because of the added warmth and body the extra mids add. They sound less compressed and distorted that the black winters.


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## FILTHnFEAR

KailM said:


> ^^Well could someone please do some demos of BKP pups that are NOT djent?



 

I'd love to hear some BKP metal demos where the guitar is tuned to standar/drop D/drop C instead of the usual drop F with bridge cables for strings. Maybe they're out there, I just haven't come across them, idk.


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## Thrawn

I have Black Winters in both of my Mahogany bodied Ibanez SZs and they are great pickups. Really nicely balanced set. Here's a riff idea demo I did with them in Feb in case you wanted to hear something. I think this is in Drop C#.

https://soundcloud.com/bolton-mr/untitled-feb-2015


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## RadDadTV

I have a lot of experience with the black winter, and they sound amazing in everything. They will do whatever you need them to do.


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## ArtDecade

Just a bit of a bump - what would you prefer in an Alder guitar?


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## Blytheryn

ArtDecade said:


> Just a bit of a bump - what would you prefer in an Alder guitar?



The answer will always be the neverending, remorseless, Black Winter.


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## feraledge

Another vote for Nazgul in alder, BW in mahogany and either/or in ash. I've had Nazguls in two ash Horizons and both sounded amazing. I would certainly suspect a BW could sound awesome in there too though.


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## jc986

ArtDecade said:


> Just a bit of a bump - what would you prefer in an Alder guitar?



Nazgul. I've had both in my SL2H and thought the Black Winter was a bit too bright for that guitar.


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## ArtDecade

If one goes with the Nazgul in the bridge, does the Sentient create the perfect pairing? Or is there an oddball that you feel matches it better?


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## ArtDecade

Blytheryn said:


> The answer will always be the neverending, remorseless, Black Winter.



Aren't you playing those pickups in Mahogany? Have you tried them in something Alder (or similar)?


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## jc986

ArtDecade said:


> If one goes with the Nazgul in the bridge, does the Sentient create the perfect pairing? Or is there an oddball that you feel matches it better?



I'm very happy with the Sentient. It matches very well. I think you'd also be ok with the '59 if you prefer a darker neck pickup, or the Jazz if you prefer a brighter neck sound. The Sentient is somewhat of a combination of those two pickups.


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## feraledge

jc986 said:


> I'm very happy with the Sentient. It matches very well. I think you'd also be ok with the '59 if you prefer a darker neck pickup, or the Jazz if you prefer a brighter neck sound. The Sentient is somewhat of a combination of those two pickups.



This. I was anticipating more from the Sentient the first time around, but have come around to it a bit more. Downside of it is that it's more expensive than the 59 or Jazz, both of which I consider to be great neck PUPs.


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## Blytheryn

ArtDecade said:


> Aren't you playing those pickups in Mahogany? Have you tried them in something Alder (or similar)?



I had them in a Horizon of unknown wood, but I am very confident that it was not Mahogany. Could have been either Alder or Ash. Still sounded amazing. I posted a small clip of me playing some riffs on that guitar in the other black winter thread that I will link to now:


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## ArtDecade

Thanks for the advice everyone! And thanks for the clip, Bly. That does sound very Black Metal with that setup.


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## FourT6and2

feraledge said:


> This. I was anticipating more from the Sentient the first time around, but have come around to it a bit more. Downside of it is that it's more expensive than the 59 or Jazz, both of which I consider to be great neck PUPs.



The '59 is definitely sweeter sounding. And the Sentient can appear cold/sterile at first. But it's just a really clear, ringing pickup. In my guitars, I find it to sound very much like a piano. Very bell-like and resonant. But it takes some getting used to. I really like it a lot. Best neck pickup I've used.


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## Dawn of the Shred

My vote is Black Winters. Very clear/articulate and can cover any style you would want to play. Sound great in any wood.


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