# Picking Technique Help



## jimgiggidy (Apr 9, 2015)

I am an intermediate player having a lot of trouble with my picking hand. A song to use a a good example would be Like Light to the Flies, mainly the first verses & pre-chorus - I have trouble keeping up picking all downstrokes so I have been alternate picking - which has led me to another problem... if I practice alternate picking things like this more than 30 minutes at a time, I get pain all in my wrist & hand that lasts a few days up to a week. Does anyone know if this should be all downstrokes? Am I using a pick that is too thick? I've been using Gator Grip .96. Am I holding pick too tight? I find that I have to hold tight, or it will slip around. Could I be picking too hard? Maybe its lack of experience on my part, but I find it very difficult to hit the strings lightly without missing, slipping, or having it sound frail or delicate. Should the downstroke motion come from the wrist, or from forearm rotation? Are all of these generally a matter of personal preference? I apologize for the barrage of questions but it seems that the more I learn, the less I actually know.


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## ghost_of_karelia (Apr 9, 2015)

Okay, I don't have time to write a detailed answer but your number 1 priority is finding a way to pick in general that DOESN'T give you the forearm pain. If you are getting this regularly you are putting yourself on the straight and narrow to RSI - a condition that is almost impossible to get rid of.

Take it easy.


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## ToneLab (Apr 9, 2015)

Good question. I don't have the answer but I would recommend looking at the Cracking the Code video series. It is so instructive and informative (and entertaining) and it really focuses on picking technique and the mechanical challenges of exactly what you are describing. I'm sure there are many other instructional videos that will help but it would be worth viewing a few of these I think to be reminded of just how hard being a good guitarist is and how picking technique is probably the largest part of it (that is my conclusion from watching the videos anyway). here is his website but tons of free youtube videos.

Cracking the Code | Troy Grady &#8211; Guitarist

Good luck.


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## metaljon (Apr 9, 2015)

I think I can help you out. (Warning: wall of text coming.)

I was having issues with really fast rhythm parts like this recently, so I completely overhauled my picking. I went from maxing out with all down strokes around 440 notes per minutes to over 600 notes per minutes for certain alternate picking passages (900+ for straight tremolo picking) and still increasing. I also went from my arm being exhausted after 20-30 minutes to being able to handle hours of alternate picking exercises.



jimgiggidy said:


> if I practice alternate picking things like this more than 30 minutes at a time, I get pain all in my wrist & hand that lasts a few days up to a week. Does anyone know if this should be all downstrokes?


What kind of pain are we talking about here? Is it muscle pain where it feels like you pushed yourself too hard and your arm's all tired out, or is it stiffness and a burning sensation? If the former, you're probably tiring yourself out by playing with way too much tension because your technique is off. If it's the latter, you might want to talk to your doctor to make sure something else isn't going on like repetitive strain injury (tendinitis or tendinosis being particularly likely). Playing until you're worn out is generally OK, just don't overdo it. Think of guitar like exercise. In most respects, it is.

Whether you play something with all down strokes depends on two things. First is whether, tonally, you want it to sound like all down strokes. Thrash is a classic example of consistent down strokes for rhythm. You get a great, even, heavy tone; however, this comes at a huge cost of efficiency. Alternate picking provides significant efficiency gains while maintaining excellent percussive tone. Economy picking provides further efficiency gains, but in my opinion, alternate picking is tonally superior. I used to economy pick, but now I use alternate picking exclusively, except for sweeps and select passages that are all down strokes.



jimgiggidy said:


> Are all of these generally a matter of personal preference?


To some extent, they are a matter of personal preference; however, if you start with the proper technique, you will acquire the necessary mechanics faster, more comfortably, and will be less likely to injure yourself. There are a lot of phenomenal guitar players out there who play with bad technique, but it's a liability they've had to overcome, as opposed to it being the secret to their success. It just means they had to work that much harder to get to where they're at. Don't follow their example. Take the "shortcut" and go straight to the right technique.

So what is the right technique? Here are the things you want to look at:


Use wrist motion
Grip
Use a thick pick
Pick at an angle, using just the tip of the pick
Keep your elbow bent
Anchor your hand
I'll break these down.

1. Use wrist motion

Pick up a pencil. Now scribble back and forth, left to right, making a line about 1½" wide. Feel that motion? That's a rough approximation of what your picking motion should be. Your forearm should be at rest, your fingers held in place, and your wrist moving side to side.

2. Grip the pick 

Have you ever seen a martial arts palm strike? Where they curl their fingers in on themselves while extending out their first knuckles? Here's an example:







This is a rough approximation of how you should grip the pick. Curl your fingers in like this, but stop short of making a full palm like in the picture. Instead, make it so your fingers and thumb are making a C shape. It should be a tall, thin obloid. Now, lay the pick on the side of your index finger and press the pad of your thumb across the face of the pick. The end of your index finger and thumb should be at about a 45° angle to each other. The tip of your thumb should stick out just a little bit past the pick to give you maximum leverage. When you look at your thumb, you should see just the tip of the pick peeking down under it.

Griping like this gives you a nice secure grip on the pick without having to apply too much pressure. The more pressure you use, the more tension you apply, and tension is what's going to make things difficult. The key thing is your fingers should not be extended at all. This is just going to make things harder. Keep those fingers curled in, including your thumb.

3. Use a thick pick (>= 1mm)

Your pick choice is fine. My preferences are the Dunlop Ultex Jazz III 1.4mm and the Tortex Jazz III 1.14mm. You want a heavy pick with very little give. As you increase your speed, thin picks will throw you off because they bend and snap as they strike the string. Thick picks don't do this. The way you mitigate the resistance strings impose on thick picks is by adjusting your picking.

4. Pick at an angle, using just the tip of the pick

You've got your wrist motion, you're gripping the pick right, and you've got a nice thick pick. You kept your fingers curled, right? Good, because you're going to curl your thumb in to make sure you achieve an angle on your pick relative to the strings. It should be approximately 45° again.

Also very important, you're going to pick with just the tip of the pick. The keep thing here is the pick should almost glide over the top of the string, with the angle of the pick allowing it to basically slide up and over the string. You can literally feel this if you put your pick to the string and then slowly push into it. The angle and slope of the pick will cause it to pop up onto the top of the string. If you do this more quickly and with a little more force, you'll get a little bit of this pop and a little bit of snap from the string, which will give you a nice clear stroke. That's how you want to pick.

5. Keep your elbow bent

While it may look cool to keep your axe slung down to your knees, that's awful for your technique. Choke up on the thing because you need to keep your elbow bent to get that wrist motion working correctly.

6. Anchor your hand

You probably already do this, but make sure your hand is anchored to the bridge of the guitar. This should come naturally if you make regular use of palm muting, which most metal guys do.



jimgiggidy said:


> I apologize for the barrage of questions but it seems that the more I learn, the less I actually know.


Few things are more indicative of maturity than experiential humility. Keep at it, man. You've got the right attitude.

Once you have the principles of the technique down, the next step is to practice it _slowly_. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to start slow. If the above is a radical departure from what you've been doing, then your body is going to fight you every step of the way. You need to go slow and really concentrate on what you're doing. You're teaching yourself a new way of picking, but your muscle memory is going to kick in if you start going too fast.

Pull out your metronome, download the tabs to that song, and then set it to something crazy slow like 40 or 50 bpm. Take your time and ponderously work through the new picking motion.


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## Buffnuggler (Apr 10, 2015)

good tips posted above me. 

try to take a deep breath and take your technique slow with a metronome, it's hard to really build it slowly but that is the key to getting all the tension out of your hands. you won't even realize you are tensing up but that is, as others have said, the way you injure yourself. 

i struggled with this problem before and became extremely paranoid i was developing RSI. for what it's worth, a lot of guitarists have blown out their wrists and had a full comeback so it's not a death sentence, but it is DEFINITELY something you need to avoid and correct because that is the only good option. seeing a great guitar teacher can help with your technique but the big thing is taking things slowly enough that your picking/fretting is completely natural. your playing should be fluid and effortless, especially stuff like downpicking, you just don't want to push your hand too hard to compensate for lack of technique because you will injure yourself. 

it helped me a lot just to stretch out my forearms and give them an ice massage for a few weeks. i wasn't having any pain, but i the muscle on the top of my forearm would just feel very tense at all times. by stretching the underside of my wrist and icing that long muscle that runs underneath it 3x a day i got a lot of relief and it seemed to reset a lot of the tension i had built up. i'm not sure if others have experience with this, so i would recommend seeing a teacher or perhaps a really good physical therapist because it isn't worth injuring yourself. 

also, idk if you spend a lot of time at the computer, but stuff like typing with improper technique or at an off angle can be absolute hell on your wrists, and like guitar creates habits that you have to unlearn so as to prevent damage.


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## redstone (Apr 10, 2015)

No vid -> no possible answer.


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## OmegaSlayer (Apr 10, 2015)

Metaljon pointed all the good tips, but I point one more.

Practice slowly.
If you miss the strings, you slip, or whatever, you clearly don't have the stamina and precision to pick at the speed you want.
So take a metronome, set the speed to 80 bpm and play 1/16th notes.
If you manage to pick everything relaxed without missing any note and stuff, move up with the bpm, increase between 2 and 5 bpm each time.
Stamina and precision are only built through metronome.


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## russmuller (Apr 10, 2015)

metaljon said:


> I think I can help you out. (Warning: wall of text coming.)



Great advice from metaljon!

A buddy of mine went to a Robert Fripp guitar camp for a week in Mexico City and spent a ridiculous amount of that time working on picking technique. Fripp's method is very similar to what metaljon describes and it relies on developing an awareness of your right arm and its mechanics. All of your picking should come from the wrist, while all of your string changes should be done with your elbow.

Ideally, your picking (up/down) should all come from the wrist. Specifically, your wrist should move side-to-side just like when drawing that 1/2" line as metaljon suggests. It should feel more like a "release" of your wrist for a down stroke, and a "return" of your wrist to its ready position as the upstroke. A lot of good technique (both from a performance and a wrist/tendon standpoint) comes from economy of motion. Your picking hand should barely move on these strokes. Practice with a mirror or your camera phone so that you can clearly see the motion of your right hand as an audience would. Notice how and when the angle of your elbow changes, or when your hand rotates instead of simply moving the pick up and down.

I noticed that my old technique struck with a pick much like I'd slap a bass; the wrist wasn't following a smooth path across the axis of my forearm, but instead I was twisting my hand toward my body on the down stroke and then away from my body on the upstroke.

I also found that while I like playing with thick picks, they tend to require a stronger intent from your picking hand to get through the string. When starting out on this technique, I've found it's best to use a thinner pick so that there is less deflection of your hand as you're trying to get the motions down.

It feels very alien, and it'll work muscles that are underdeveloped (by contrast to the ones you've relied on til now). It's really hard though. I've been working on it for a few weeks and I can tell it's going to be a long time before I develop the stamina and muscle memory for this to feel natural.


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## AdamMaz (Apr 10, 2015)

Strictly only up or down picking... the fascination seems extreme to me


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## jimgiggidy (Apr 14, 2015)

I appreciate all the advice. It is definitely not a sore muscle pain, its more like a stiffness pain. After looking around at other picking techniques and reviewing your responses, I think all of my problems stem from how I have been holding the pick - which is between my thumb & the tip of my index finger while my 3 remaining digits lay more straight out and rest on the lower strings. This may have been ok for a while playing stuff at slower tempos, but as the music I've been playing gets heavier and faster, I have noticed this technique isnt working so well, especially for the high speed thrash style downstroking, or constant alternate picking for long periods of time. After gripping the pick like metaljon showed, it seems like it takes less effort to pick this way and it seems to not bring on the wrist tension I've been recently getting, so I'm sure if I keep at it while being careful to not overdo it, and do proper warm ups & stretching this new technique will work out very well. It will definitely take some time to adjust though, as it feels very awkward to keep my hand that way


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## metaljon (Apr 14, 2015)

jimgiggidy said:


> I appreciate all the advice. It is definitely not a sore muscle pain, its more like a stiffness pain. After looking around at other picking techniques and reviewing your responses, I think all of my problems stem from how I have been holding the pick - which is between my thumb & the tip of my index finger while my 3 remaining digits lay more straight out and rest on the lower strings. This may have been ok for a while playing stuff at slower tempos, but as the music I've been playing gets heavier and faster, I have noticed this technique isnt working so well, especially for the high speed thrash style downstroking, or constant alternate picking for long periods of time. After gripping the pick like metaljon showed, it seems like it takes less effort to pick this way and it seems to not bring on the wrist tension I've been recently getting, so I'm sure if I keep at it while being careful to not overdo it, and do proper warm ups & stretching this new technique will work out very well. It will definitely take some time to adjust though, as it feels very awkward to keep my hand that way


What you described is exactly what I used to do. Don't fret (no pun intended). It took me a while to adjust, too. In fact, it felt freaking awkward at first and I could hardly imagine adjusting to it. Palm muting in particular felt extremely weird, but within several hours time (over the course of several days' practice), it started to become more comfortable. I might have had a head start over you, however, because all of my other alternate picking (e.g. scalar runs) conformed to this already. It was just the palm muted rhythm stuff where I fell back on the bad technique.

If this picking mechanic is entirely new to you then it might take several weeks. Don't worry and don't give up. You'll likely find your picking speed will take off once you've settled into the new mechanic. I know mine did.


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## bloc (Apr 16, 2015)

A thick pick is really handy when it comes to fast playing/picking. Remember, you don't want a pick that will flop around when it hits the strings

You also want to angle the pick somewhat so that it "slices" through the strings. It will make playing fast much easier.

A very important thing is too not tense your picking hand too much and that includes you arm all the way up to your elbow. This is something I've recently been focusing on and it really does make a difference. Before, my picking hand used to get tense and stiff really quickly because I was holding the pick too hard. Like you, I was afraid that the pick would just slip out of my hands. However, use something like a Dunlop Jazz III which is not only thick but has ridges and grooves which help to grip it.


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## myrtorp (Apr 16, 2015)

Another thing about wrist pain, from what I've learned you can get pain from keeping a bad pose with your back when playing, or just sitting by the computer. I thought at first that my pain came from just bad technique when playing, but realized I could get the same pain when just sitting prolonged periods at my computer (when taking a break from playing) So its really important to think about ergonomy!!


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## Simic (Apr 16, 2015)

The pre-chorus of this exact song is actually the riff with which I learned economy picking. There are tons of videos on this subject on youtube, try it slowly and with time you'll be able to play it 2x as fast as on the recording with zero cramping.


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## MatthewK (Apr 16, 2015)

AdamMaz said:


> Strictly only up or down picking... the fascination seems extreme to me



I've never understood this strict down picking thing either. Also don't worry about how someone says you have to do something, that is such bull.... and that thinking has screwed me over for a long time. Find your own way, don't force yourself to do it exactly the same way someone else would. 

As for picking motion. Look up Pebber Brown's videos on youtube about sarod picking.


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## FRETPICK (Apr 16, 2015)

The first thing you should do is buy an Encore E6. This will really help with the speed aspect.


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## jimgiggidy (Apr 17, 2015)

So for starters, I have to put the guitar down for a bit, as it turns out I have tendonitis... likely from tensing my arm up trying to pick too fast and not having very good pick grip/leverage. First I need to see what MRI results show. After enough recovery time, I'm back at this, I just want to make sure everything is healed well because I do not want to screw it up any more.

Noted:
I need to try a new technique... first as described in metaljon's wall of text, which seems like it will solve the problems I've been having. Then I have to remember not to tense up. This was a terrible mistake on my part. I should know better. I am making sure that I sit with good posture at all times, and that I am typing with the proper posture since I spend quite a while in front of a computer.





MatthewK said:


> As for picking motion. Look up Pebber Brown's videos on youtube about sarod picking.




Can you palm mute or thumb mute using this technique? I apologize I cannot listen to the audio from this video at the moment - at work.


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## chinnybob (Apr 17, 2015)

I saw a tip recently that helped me quite a bit. Kind of hard to explain, but basically when holding the pick between your thumb and index, try only applying any pressure with your thumb, i.e. so your thumb is pushing the pick into your index. For me this meant I was holding the pick a bit more loosely, but also that (especially for downpicking) some of the motion comes from my thumb as well as my wrist. It was weird at first but now it means I'm not tensing up as much and can downpick faster and for longer.

As a side note I've also been playing along to the Ascendancy album a lot recently to build up some more speed/stamina. Some of it is absolutely rapid.


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## Enselmis (Apr 17, 2015)

metaljon said:


> 6. Anchor your hand
> 
> You probably already do this, but make sure your hand is anchored to the bridge of the guitar. This should come naturally if you make regular use of palm muting, which most metal guys do.




There's a whooooole lot of debate on that one. I personally disagree. If you're palm muting, you haven't got much choice. However, anchoring your hand anywhere is wasted energy. I understand it makes things a bit easier but I think in the long run it's less efficient. Furthermore, to the best of my understanding, classical players are the ones to ask about technique, and any classical player is going to tell you to keep your wrist high and relaxed. Unfortunately that directly contradicts keeping things anchored.


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## mdeeRocks (Apr 18, 2015)

You need to play slower. Pain is in most cases caused by tension, which is caused by trying to play too fast for your skill level. Slow down considerably and concentrate on what you hear, if you like the tone your hands will find a way. Possibly get someone experienced (a person who can do what you are attempting to do, but without pain/tension) who can have a look at how you hold the guitar/how do you pick, you may have some bad habits which slow you down and can be corrected, the most common are keeping the guitar parallel to the body (instead of sort of N shaped when looking at your legs from the top, guitar neck being middle part of N) and lifting picking hand up around the wrist.
p.s. Thickness of the pick does not matter, use one which sounds the best and is most comfortable. Many people like "scratchy" sound of thin picks, 0.5-0.75


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## FifthCircleSquared (Apr 22, 2015)

Edited the top part out. Trying to keep my pinky off or away from the guitar actually causes tension/pain for me, even totally relaxed.

Edit: A word on playing ergonomically. I used to have a terrible time practicing guitar for more than an hour without back pain. Solution? Strap up, and Stand up! Side benefit: You are more comfortable playing live, AND you are burning about 160 calories an hour


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## metaljon (Apr 28, 2015)

Enselmis said:


> There's a whooooole lot of debate on that one. I personally disagree. If you're palm muting, you haven't got much choice. However, anchoring your hand anywhere is wasted energy. I understand it makes things a bit easier but I think in the long run it's less efficient. Furthermore, to the best of my understanding, classical players are the ones to ask about technique, and any classical player is going to tell you to keep your wrist high and relaxed. Unfortunately that directly contradicts keeping things anchored.


Classical players are the last people to talk to when you're asking about playing metal. Most classical players don't even use a pick. They're fingerstyle guitarists.

And incidentally, since we are talking about metal, that means lots and lots of palm muting.


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## karjim (Apr 28, 2015)

The anchoring for metal is just putting the rest of the palm on the bridge.Like paul Gilbert Al di Meola Sergei Golovin Andy James Guthrie Govan...Look at these they have the perfect technique. PLEASE don t do the Petrucci pinky style. You ll loose some strenght and make suffer your forearm and your wrist....like Petrucci the bodybuilder


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