# Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out as gay



## Hollowway (Oct 30, 2014)

Good on him. I like that people in power are not worried about the repercussions of being gay. 

One of the guys on MacRumors posted, "I wonder if Samsung's CEO will now come out as gay?" 

Apple CEO Tim Cook Publicly Comes Out as Gay in Letter Declaring Support for Equality - MacRumors Forums

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-10-30/tim-cook-im-proud-to-be-gay

If you have the time, read the Business Week link. It's his full statement, and it's incredibly well written. It ends with this (said about his announcement): "We pave the sunlit path toward justice together, brick by brick. This is my brick."


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## ElysianGuitars (Oct 30, 2014)

I'm sure the Samsung CEO will come out as transexual, not gay, just to one-up Apple.


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## Hollowway (Oct 30, 2014)

ElysianGuitars said:


> I'm sure the Samsung CEO will come out as transexual, not gay, just to one-up Apple.


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## TemjinStrife (Oct 30, 2014)

This was probably one of the worst-kept secrets in Silicon Valley. That said, good on him for being able to conform his public life with his private.


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## Hollowway (Oct 30, 2014)

Yeah, I don't know that anyone was shocked to hear this, but the reason he came out was pretty cool. His written statement about it was super eloquent.


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## UnderTheSign (Oct 31, 2014)

Much of the responses unfortunately weren't as well written. From people going "why is this even news?" to some good old gay bashing. Well people questions why people coming out is still relevant, read the comment section and see for yourself. 

I had no clue he was gay and don't keep up with tech news much good on him and I hope his brick counts.


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## Chickenhawk (Oct 31, 2014)

Good for him. Most of the universe already knew, but I'm glad he was comfortable making it public.

EDIT:
Forgot I was in P&CE...


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## OmegaSlayer (Oct 31, 2014)

I thought Apple, and Microsoft, and many others thought everyone of their customers are gay because those big corps try to screw customers over and over and over.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 31, 2014)




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## Konfyouzd (Oct 31, 2014)

Good for him, I guess... It's nice that he feels comfortable. Sad that such a condition exists that this has to be publicly noted.


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## Pat_tct (Oct 31, 2014)

i didn't know he was gay. and i couldn't care less. when will we stop giving a shit about stuff like that?


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## UnderTheSign (Oct 31, 2014)

Pat_tct said:


> i didn't know he was gay. and i couldn't care less. when will we stop giving a shit about stuff like that?


Ask all the people that vote against gay marriage, there seem to be quite a few still.


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## GizmoGardens (Oct 31, 2014)

UnderTheSign said:


> Ask all the people that vote against gay marriage, there seem to be quite a few still.



Yeah, but does making this a huge news story do a disservice to the movement? I feel like a lot of hatred for gays, and various other groups, is an old problem. I think the younger generation that I'm a part of is much more tolerant/apathetic to people's lifestyles and backgrounds, so when I see these stories in the news I can't help but get the sense that the media is baiting us to react... Furthering the division. Maybe the "meh, who cares?" mentality is progress, even though it doesn't give off that 'moral high ground' feeling.


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## RustInPeace (Oct 31, 2014)

I'm all for equal rights for everybody, but I'm getting to the point where I just dont care anymore if someone famous is gay. Something that I would be more concerned about, is maybe a failed business deal because of a prejudice against his lifestyle? Does that make sense?


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## Captain Butterscotch (Oct 31, 2014)

Gah, we're just kind of waiting for the older generations to die out. No one cares about fighting gay marriage except for them. I'm apathetic to what kind of -sexual you are and I'm pretty sure that vast majority of 20-somethings are too. I can't wait for the day that stories like this aren't relevant.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 31, 2014)

From what I understand, I don't think he's doing this just to, he's doing this to set a precedent. A way for people to feel more comfortable coming out.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 31, 2014)

This guy should be worried about apples sinking ship instead of being a rockstar in interviews. Who gives a shit about his personal life??


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## asher (Oct 31, 2014)

I hardly think that counts as being a rock star.


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## Promit (Oct 31, 2014)

This isn't about his personal life. Didn't any of you read the actual statement?


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## JohnIce (Oct 31, 2014)

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Gah, we're just kind of waiting for the older generations to die out. No one cares about fighting gay marriage except for them. I'm apathetic to what kind of -sexual you are and I'm pretty sure that vast majority of 20-somethings are too. I can't wait for the day that stories like this aren't relevant.



Said every generation ever. Our kids are gonna be even more open-minded than us and call us out for being conservative, and so will their kids etc. That's how it's been for centuries.

It's great that you don't care, but realize you're not the voice of the masses. A lot of people care, and they're damn well not all old-timers. Homophobia, racism, sexism etc. is sadly subjective, and each generation will be a little more enlightened but still they're gonna pass it on to their kids. Just the bits that they don't _think_ are homophobic, racist, sexist etc. For example, the kid can't hate gays for being gay, but they can call someone a fag as a derogatory term. Is that still homophobia? Well that's subjective until we discuss it and reach a consensus.

Which brings us to why this is relevant news. It creates discussion and normalizes the discussion. Are we better than our parents at this? Yes. Do we get to pat ourselves on the back and say we're done? In my opinion, nope.

Frankly, I don't see why anyone would discourage people from discussing anything. That's how we've evolved all these years. Civilization is founded on discussion and finding ways to improve what we have. I see people say: "Stop discussing that, we've solved it already" all the time when someone brings up a tolerance/discrimination issue and I don't get why.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Oct 31, 2014)

I live in Arkansas, so I'm acutely aware that this stuff still needs to be discussed and the cause of equality still needs to be championed by the masses. I just said I can't wait for the day where sexuality doesn't matter any more than...well, eye color or something.


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## JohnIce (Oct 31, 2014)

Captain Butterscotch said:


> I live in Arkansas, so I'm acutely aware that this stuff still needs to be discussed and the cause of equality still needs to be championed by the masses. I just said I can't wait for the day where sexuality doesn't matter any more than...well, eye color or something.



Well that I can agree on! I just read your post in a kind of "I don't do it so it's probably not a real problem" kind of tone, maybe you didn't mean it that way.


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## Alex Kenivel (Nov 1, 2014)

There are still tons of bigoted shitheads around. If you have the mindset that this doesn't matter in any way, you live under a rock.


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## SD83 (Nov 1, 2014)

What confuses me a bit is the "proud to be" part. Someone who tells you he/she is proud to be hetero might get a lot of hate as people would at once attacke him/her for being homophobic... I know it sadly still matters for some people, I just find it weird to be proud of you sexual orientation. But I find it just as weird to be proud of the nation your born in. Those are things which are, as far as my understanding goes, not something you did or achieved, but something you're just randomly born with. That said, it's a bit embarrasing that there is still a reason to be proud to have the courage to tell everyone you're gay. What's the deal with homo/hetero anyways, except for breeding? If you love someone and that person loves you back, that's cool. Shouldn't be anyone elses buisness.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 1, 2014)

Alex Kenivel said:


> There are still tons of bigoted shitheads around. If you have the mindset that this doesn't matter in any way, you live under a rock.



Aaand thank you!

There's still a ....ton of bigotry against gay people. It makes people afraid to come out. The more people that come out and show that there's no fear in showing their sexuality, the more people that will follow. 

Also, people are STILL saying the usual "why don't straight people come out?" argument? I never realized people were bullied, abused, disowned, and f_u_cking murdered for being straight.

EDIT: Im tired as hell and this argument most liekly sounds like shit.


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## Alex Kenivel (Nov 1, 2014)

^I got made fun of for being white by a gay person, does that count?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 1, 2014)

Alex Kenivel said:


> ^I got made fun of for being white by a gay person, does that count?


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## Alex Kenivel (Nov 1, 2014)

Yeah, stupid people breed..


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## Explorer (Nov 1, 2014)

When there are no longer slurs and homophobic remarks in comment sections regarding such stories, then the story will not be news, and there won't be a reason to take a stand.

I would think such to be obvious, but some folks can say that there isn't a problem anymore with bigots, and have to bury their heads 20 feet deep in a septic tank in order to ignore that stuff in the comments sections. I don't know what motivates them to do so. Is that ignorance willful? How else to explain it? 

And if your idea of a rebuttal is that those sentiments, as expressed in those comments, don't really exist, then explain why people make those comments in the first place.


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## Alex Kenivel (Nov 1, 2014)

Wilful ignorance? Maybe just plain stupidity..


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## Explorer (Nov 1, 2014)

Well... they're aware of the comment sections and such because they were even mentioned in this topic. That means they have to be deliberately ignoring the existence of such, or recasting such bigotry so it's not bigotry... but why? What do they hope to accomplish by such denial?


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## JohnIce (Nov 1, 2014)

SD83 said:


> What confuses me a bit is the "proud to be" part. Someone who tells you he/she is proud to be hetero might get a lot of hate as people would at once attacke him/her for being homophobic... I know it sadly still matters for some people, I just find it weird to be proud of you sexual orientation. But I find it just as weird to be proud of the nation your born in. Those are things which are, as far as my understanding goes, not something you did or achieved, but something you're just randomly born with. That said, it's a bit embarrasing that there is still a reason to be proud to have the courage to tell everyone you're gay. What's the deal with homo/hetero anyways, except for breeding? If you love someone and that person loves you back, that's cool. Shouldn't be anyone elses buisness.



Simple explanation (I'm straight so I may be dead-wrong) for me it seems to not be about pride in actually being gay, it's rather about being proud of not letting it be a handicap, or a source of shame or fear. You make an active choice to not take shit from people, to normalize homosexuality and stop keeping it a secret from others or from yourself. That's something to be proud about, in my opinion.

When I say stop taking shit from people, hell, last time I was out drinking someone told me drinking from a straw was "faggy". It's not like the South Park episode where being faggy is a compliment, in real-life it's never a positive thing to be called gay or faggy or for that matter girly. It's basically associated with "you're inferior to real men".

So there's still a lot of shit these people have to deal with everyday. Kudos on them for standing up for themselves.


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## UnderTheSign (Nov 1, 2014)

Black pride, gay pride, trans pride etc is not about "oh look at me I'm gay and super proud look at me", it's about empowerment. Not letting bigotry and ignorance get you down. Like JohnIce said, standing up for yourself despite still being considered abnormal by society.


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## GizmoGardens (Nov 1, 2014)

Explorer said:


> Well... they're aware of the comment sections and such because they were even mentioned in this topic. That means they have to be deliberately ignoring the existence of such, or recasting such bigotry so it's not bigotry... but why? What do they hope to accomplish by such denial?



Because I'm not ready to believe that the comment threads on the internet are an accurate cross ssection of life. Those people are fanatics and will always exist, unfortunately. I've hardly had my head buried in the sand, but I just don't see it. I've worked with gay people, I went to college with gay people, I've been to pride with gay friends... I just don't see the hatred in my real life. It's rampant on the internet, but when I go out in the world I've seen tolerance and acceptance. Maybe I've been fortunate.


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## GizmoGardens (Nov 1, 2014)

I think the media has the ability to warp perceptions in that way. Day to day interactions don't make the news. You hold the door open for a gay couple entering a store, you go out to dinner with a gay couple... youll never hear about it, they're not going to garner viewership. One bigot makes some horrific statement, or some fanatic church group makes some terrible signs and it's everywhere. I've seen people do bad shit, but when I weigh it against all the times nothing negative has happened, it seems like a very small percentage.


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## Hollowway (Nov 1, 2014)

GizmoGardens said:


> I think the media has the ability to warp perceptions in that way. Day to day interactions don't make the news. You hold the door open for a gay couple entering a store, you go out to dinner with a gay couple... youll never hear about it, they're not going to garner viewership. One bigot makes some horrific statement, or some fanatic church group makes some terrible signs and it's everywhere. I've seen people do bad shit, but when I weigh it against all the times nothing negative has happened, it seems like a very small percentage.



That's true, but I don't really think that is "warping" perceptions. Certainly the media has the ability to whip everyone into a frenzy (like getting everyone worried about Ebola, even though only 2 people died from it, while 30,000 die every year from flu). But to a large extent it isn't considered newsworthy to say, "Area man goes out for dinner and isn't murdered," but "Man murdered in restaurant" is newsworthy.


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## GizmoGardens (Nov 1, 2014)

I agree, that's exactly what I'm saying. Because these good, or even just non-negative, everyday events don't make the news. So we're fed these negative stories almost exclusively and I believe it results in a sort of confirmation bias in a lot of people. So you're right, warped was the wrong way to say it.


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## Explorer (Nov 1, 2014)

I think of the comment sections as being the tip of the iceberg, the only part visible of a larger whole. 

A few years ago, after Barack Obama won the election, I was accidentally forwarded this joke as part of a former friend's forwarding an evangelical mailing list containing some discussion regarding a topic we had been talking about:

Why is the US government sending out Barack Obama Christmas ornaments?

So every good American can hang a n*gger from a tree!

Haw haw!

Now... was it really just the newletter compiler who had inserted this, and no one else thought it was appropriate? Was that one guy in the minority?

Or, was it a much larger audience, none of whom objected to this kind of content... especially in a newletter which was supposedly Christ-based?

Given how many have found enough motivation in their hearts to vote against marriage equality, I have to assume that there is a huge population in the US who don't see this grous as deserving the same rights as everyone else.

So, the question:

*How does someone square the majorities needed to pass voter-approved legislation preventing marriage equality with the notion that the bigots didn't have a voting majority? *

Personally, I'm calling bullsh1t on that poor logic. I'll be fascinated to see that logic explained, assuming someone thought through all the court cases in the past years regarding voter-approved bans on marriage equality, instead of them just claiming that such bigotry doesn't have the numbers to do so.


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## GizmoGardens (Nov 2, 2014)

Explorer said:


> I think of the comment sections as being the tip of the iceberg, the only part visible of a larger whole.
> 
> A few years ago, after Barack Obama won the election, I was accidentally forwarded this joke as part of a former friend's forwarding an evangelical mailing list containing some discussion regarding a topic we had been talking about:
> 
> ...



Same sex marriage is legal in 32 states in the US. That's the majority. And if you asked me, I'd say that number is likely to continue to rise.


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## Promit (Nov 2, 2014)

GizmoGardens said:


> Same sex marriage is legal in 32 states in the US. That's the majority. And if you asked me, I'd say that number is likely to continue to rise.


And it's _because_ of events like this one.

Some of you should look into the data on approval for same sex marriage, the trends, and especially _why_ people changed their minds from disapprove to approve. In terms of major social changes, homosexuality has seen one of the sharpest, fastest changes from mass disapproval to mass approval of anything ever. And one of the driving forces behind it is people finding out that someone they know and care about is gay. The point of Tim Cook's statements, and many others, is that everyone should feel confident to be themselves, _fully_, in public. Not hiding.

We didn't get to (a _very_ slim) majority approval of homosexuality by sitting around talking about how people's bedrooms don't matter. That is a terribly ignorant misunderstanding of the situation.


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 2, 2014)

I'm going to agree with Explorer on this one.
There's still a fair amount of negativity towards minorities of every kind in the U.S.A., but because of the brave actions of an ever-growing limited few I also believe it's in rapid decline.
Growing up in a very rednecky area, I can tell you that while still present to a degree, it's not even close to what it was in the 70's and 80's here.


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## Explorer (Nov 2, 2014)

Aaaaaand... possible GOP 2016 presidential contender Ted Cruz has now defined Tim Cook's sexuality as a "personal decision." 

Yup. Someone who the GOP might select as the best person to run this country is still rolling out that conservative talking point.

Cruz on Apple CEO Tim Cook being gay: 'Personal decision' | TheHill

Hopefully if there is silence from those who can't justify their claims that stories like these don't matter, and that bigotry is gone, that silence means they realize they were wrong.

If their silence is just that they don't agree, but can't marshal any facts to support their disagreement, I'm good with that too.


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## Chokey Chicken (Nov 2, 2014)

I can't wait for this kind of thing to not be news or worth mentioning. Unfortunately it sort of needs to be, at least currently. Here's hoping that I get to see it in my lifetime. We've come a long way in recent years, Lord knows I know that.


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## JohnIce (Nov 2, 2014)

GizmoGardens said:


> Same sex marriage is legal in 32 states in the US. That's the majority. And if you ask me I'd say that number is likely to continue to rise.



32 states is sad. Majority or not, having the majority of a car doesn't mean you have a car. It damn well better rise, but that's everyone's responsibility. Suggesting people rest on their laurels in a fight you're barely even participating in just because their side seems to be winning, seems like a waste of energy to me. If that's what you're actually doing here.

Having wind in their sails or not, I'm sure the LGBTQ community and many with them would like to see as quick results as possible, and not wait more decades than they have to.


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## Watty (Nov 2, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> I'm going to agree with Explorer on this one.
> There's still a fair amount of negativity towards minorities of every kind in the U.S.A., but because of the brave actions of an ever-growing limited few I also believe it's in rapid decline.
> Growing up in a very rednecky area, I can tell you that while still present to a degree, it's not even close to what it was in the 70's and 80's here.



So, quick point of clarification....You call this brave and still champion Fox and conservatives at every turn. Are you calling it brave in the face of the diversity you help perpetuate?


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## GizmoGardens (Nov 2, 2014)

JohnIce said:


> 32 states is sad. Majority or not, having the majority of a car doesn't mean you have a car. It damn well better rise, but that's everyone's responsibility. Suggesting people rest on their laurels in a fight you're barely even participating in just because their side seems to be winning, seems like a waste of energy to me. If that's what you're actually doing here.
> 
> Having wind in their sails or not, I'm sure the LGBTQ community and many with them would like to see as quick results as possible, and not wait more decades than they have to.



Absolutely not, I recognize there's a ways to go. All I meant by that statement is that there's been strong positive progress, and that we're closer than we are further away. As I said before, I've seen far more in the way of acceptance (and admitted apathy) in my life than hatred and I only see it continuing into the right direction. Did not mean to give the impression that the fight is over

Edit: but I stand by what I said about the media's handling of these types of issues. I think they tend to do more harm than good.


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## GizmoGardens (Nov 2, 2014)

And 32 states is sad? Really? Undoing generations of indoctrination, how long is that supposed to take exactly? 

We are not building a car. We are building our very first car. It's not as if everything was great and then by some tragedy and gays had their rights stripped form them.

So when I flip on the news and see headlines reading "Poll: Majority of Americans Don't Want 4 Wheeled Vehicles" or I go on Facebook and see some jerk posting things like "God HATES your car", I'm not about to be discouraged or get bent out of shape about it. Things don't just get built from nothing, and they're never right the first time around. That's part of the engineering process (even social engineering). Why would you want to diminish the collective effort of people like you and I? Because we're not finished yet? I'm out.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 3, 2014)

Russians Tear Down Steve Jobs Memorial Because Tim Cook is Gay | The Bilerico Project

Oh my god. 
You can't make this shit up.


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## JohnIce (Nov 3, 2014)

GizmoGardens said:


> Absolutely not, I recognize there's a ways to go. All I meant by that statement is that there's been strong positive progress, and that we're closer than we are further away. As I said before, I've seen far more in the way of acceptance (and admitted apathy) in my life than hatred and I only see it continuing into the right direction. Did not mean to give the impression that the fight is over
> 
> Edit: but I stand by what I said about the media's handling of these types of issues. I think they tend to do more harm than good.







GizmoGardens said:


> And 32 states is sad? Really? Undoing generations of indoctrination, how long is that supposed to take exactly?
> 
> We are not building a car. We are building our very first car. It's not as if everything was great and then by some tragedy and gays had their rights stripped form them.
> 
> So when I flip on the news and see headlines reading "Poll: Majority of Americans Don't Want 4 Wheeled Vehicles" or I go on Facebook and see some jerk posting things like "God HATES your car", I'm not about to be discouraged or get bent out of shape about it. Things don't just get built from nothing, and they're never right the first time around. That's part of the engineering process (even social engineering). Why would you want to diminish the collective effort of people like you and I? Because we're not finished yet? I'm out.



Most of this isn't addressing any of my opinions, so I'll leave those arguments alone.

But yeah, 32 is sad if you let it be "good enough". 32 as a milestone is great, sure. It's better than 31. And it's absolutely required if you want to get to 33. But as a _result_ however, 32 is sad. Reasons being what I said in my post. I'm not diminishing anyone's effort, I'm saying that _getting lazy halfway through_ is what I'm against. That's it. To leave it to the snowball effect and stop caring anymore just because it's going well right now. That's what my post was about.

Will it get better gradually and sort itself out eventually? Probably. But social media and high-speed internet has changed the game entirely for human rights movements, resulting in the biggest strides we've seen so far, so it can happen way faster if we make an effort and don't just sit around and wait.


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## BucketheadRules (Nov 3, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Russians Tear Down Steve Jobs Memorial Because Tim Cook is Gay | The Bilerico Project
> 
> Oh my god.
> You can't make this shit up.



Came here to post this.

F*cking well done Russia.


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## Dana (Nov 3, 2014)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Russians Tear Down Steve Jobs Memorial Because Tim Cook is Gay | The Bilerico Project
> 
> Oh my god.
> You can't make this shit up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5KdxcRNj2Q


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 6, 2014)

Watty said:


> So, quick point of clarification....You call this brave and still champion Fox and conservatives at every turn. Are you calling it brave in the face of the diversity you help perpetuate?




I watch FOX NEWS on a regular basis and I never hear or see them opposing anyone's sexual preference.
I think you've been sucked-in by the left-wing propaganda machine that is the DNC and it's allies .
Your probably still mourning Sandra Fluke's lack of personal contraception funds .










Back on topic, or at least related IMO;
Michael Sam's NFL snub already at historic level - Outsports


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## GizmoGardens (Nov 6, 2014)

If you can't see the glaring bias in that article, then it is what it is.

The NFL has shown without a shadow of a doubt that their only God is cashola. They were fully willing to let Ray Rice of with a two game suspension, and the Ravens seemed perfectly ok with that. If he was good enough to make them more money, he'd be on a team.

Second, Michael Sam was given the most exposure of any 7th rounder in the history of the NFL? If you watched the draft, he was one of the most talked about players, nothing negative that I heard, and he was given more television time than any 7th rounder deserves. Why? Because he's openly gay and people wanted to see him succeed. He was given a fair shake and it sucks that it didn't work out.

EDIT: The point of all that being this: to accuse the Dallas Cowboys of cutting someone (that they wasted a draft pick on) from the practice squad because he is gay is a serious accusation. If the author could prove his argument (that he was cut for being gay), then I'd throw the fukin book at the Cowboys. That award isn't proof.


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## Explorer (Nov 6, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> I watch FOX NEWS on a regular basis and I never hear or see them opposing anyone's sexual preference.



Have you ever heard or seen them supporting the right to discriminate against gays based on religion? 

If you have, can you see how arguing that one has the right to discriminate is demonstrating opposition to those being discriminated against?

I'm not posting any links yet, because the last time I questioned you about something espoused on Fox News, you stated that you hadn't watched the clip, and then you just dropped out of the discussion rather than admit that Fox News itself had done something you were denying. I'm not wasting my time yet, until you either argue (wrongly) that they haven't supported the right to discriminate, or talk about the point without admitting anything.

Fortunately, whether you answer or not, I'll be posting clips later demonstrating the anti-bay bias you're stating doesn't exist on Fox.


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## Axayacatl (Nov 6, 2014)

Explorer said:


> Have you ever heard or seen them supporting the right to discriminate against gays based on religion?
> 
> If you have, can you see how arguing that one has the right to discriminate is demonstrating opposition to those being discriminated against?



My good friend.. when are you going to understand that that religion-based discrimination isn't discrimination at all? It is freedom of religious expression! 

Repeat after me: "I don't agree with discrimination but I will fight to the death for my fellow citizen's right to discriminate against others!" .. or something like that...

Isn't it unfortunate for them that the people behind Jim Crow laws never caught on to this clever little conceptual loophole. If only they had interpreted the New Testament as making statements about water fountain policy then maybe those laws would still be in place....

"And on the fifth day God made a separate but equal (ok, probably shittier) water fountain for black people..." 

Chance wasted!

I'm going travel back in time to let them know! BRB!


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## Axayacatl (Nov 6, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Your probably still mourning Sandra Fluke's lack of personal contraception funds .
> [/url]



Hey bud, not trying to start a thing here, I'm coming from a state of relaxation, no aggression involved in my statement. But can we stop shitting on women for wanting the same thing men get? In particular, can we stop being brave men ganging up on one brave girl?

Priests could use their medical insurance to buy the Viagra to get it up and also the condoms to slide it in little boys without leaving a physical trace. Sandra Fluke just wanted health care policies to offer the same luxury to Nuns. Women pay taxes as well after all...


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## Explorer (Nov 8, 2014)

Trenchlord, I want to be sure I understand you correctly, 

If someone is against rights for gays, if it's because of their religion, it's not bigotry.

Similarly, if someone is against rights for blacks, if it's because of their religion, it's not bigotry.

Do you find them to be the same idea, and completely acceptable?

If you find those two statements not the same thing, why not?


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## Axayacatl (Nov 8, 2014)

Explorer said:


> Trenchlord, I want to be sure I understand you correctly,
> 
> If someone is against rights for gays, if it's because of their religion, it's not bigotry.
> 
> ...




Friend-O. Are you not reading my posts?

Modern legal scholars call it ''The Magical Loophole of Logic."

If you're against people discriminating for religious reasons, then YOU are the bigot. Got it? Now let people exercise their (not constitutionally) protected right to discriminate against others for their sexual orientation. 

It works like this:

If I want to eat magical mushrooms and have a good time and get to know myself, then I am a drug addict waste-of-space and I belong in jail. 

If I want to eat magical mushrooms because it is my religion, then I am exercising my constitutional right to find my God and I am protected by law to do so. 

Look it up. This is _literally_ how it works in practice. Get with the times!


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 8, 2014)

Explorer said:


> Trenchlord, I want to be sure I understand you correctly,
> 
> If someone is against rights for gays, if it's because of their religion, it's not bigotry.
> 
> ...




Who are these "someones"?
As I said already, I watch FOX NEWS frequently and can say without doubt that there's no bigotry what-so-ever projected from the network.
FOX NEWS interviews people from both extremes and the middle, included the anti-religious bigots .
Frankly, the whole anti-FNC propaganda campaign has just got a bit goofy.


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 8, 2014)

Axayacatl said:


> Hey bud, not trying to start a thing here, I'm coming from a state of relaxation, no aggression involved in my statement. But can we stop shitting on women for wanting the same thing men get? In particular, can we stop being brave men ganging up on one brave girl?
> 
> Priests could use their medical insurance to buy the Viagra to get it up and also the condoms to slide it in little boys without leaving a physical trace. Sandra Fluke just wanted health care policies to offer the same luxury to Nuns. Women pay taxes as well after all...



I agree to the extent that there should be equality of coverage, although it's a foggy area to regulate a religion's definition of acceptable contraception without chucking the whole freedom/right out the window.

Sandra Fluck is/was a complete and total tool though, IMO.
The whole "war on women" is nothing more than a desperate joke.

Being non-religious myself, it's easy for me to say this; Politically speaking, the GOP should concede that issue and move on. Let the states regulate these sorts of things.
I still haven't ever heard a convincing argument as to why the government is ever in the business of denying OR validating personal/religious issues such as marriage.
The definitions of marriage and acceptable birth control should be left to the individual.
Maybe they should allow individual policy holders to either sign-in (for an extra fee of course) or sign waiver to these sorts of coverages so that objectors don't share the cost, and non-objectors get their way also.


So in summary; I personally do not agree with some aspects of the republican platform, and I do think they need to revise their stance, but these sort of social issues really just don't concern me much at all compared to the duties that the federal government should be focused on like national defense and military readiness. Shit like what happened at Benghazi should never happen.


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## celticelk (Nov 8, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> The whole "war on women" is nothing more than a desperate joke.



Of course you can say that. You're not a woman.


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## AxeHappy (Nov 9, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Who are these "someones"?
> As I said already, I watch FOX NEWS frequently and can say without doubt that there's no bigotry what-so-ever projected from the network.
> FOX NEWS interviews people from both extremes and the middle, included the anti-religious bigots .
> Frankly, the whole anti-FNC propaganda campaign has just got a bit goofy.



Did you actually just ask who(m) these someones are? A someone is, by definition, an unknown person.

Meaning, Explorer is saying that if any one unspecific individual is against gay rights... 

It's called a pronoun. Look it up.

What he is doing is showing an example of logic, and making sure that no specific individual is involved so that just the logic may be judged.

Fox News called Richard Dawkins a fascist, and discriminate thusly against all atheists. If you legitimately think Fox News doesn't actively broadcast and support bigotry than you are, quite frankly, a ....ing moron.


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## Mprinsje (Nov 9, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Who are these "someones"?
> As I said already, I watch FOX NEWS frequently and can say without doubt that there's no bigotry what-so-ever projected from the network.
> FOX NEWS interviews people from both extremes and the middle, included the anti-religious bigots .
> Frankly, the whole anti-FNC propaganda campaign has just got a bit goofy.



you didn't answer the question.


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## Mprinsje (Nov 9, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Who are these "someones"?
> As I said already, I watch FOX NEWS frequently and can say without doubt that there's no bigotry what-so-ever projected from the network.
> FOX NEWS interviews people from both extremes and the middle, included the anti-religious bigots .
> Frankly, the whole anti-FNC propaganda campaign has just got a bit goofy.



By the way, as someone who doesn't watch american news networks regularly but who does get to watch some of it because internet, it seems that every goddamn news network in america is really biassed in one way or another.


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## Promit (Nov 9, 2014)

I'm assuming he's never seen O'Reilly's show, if he hasn't seen any bigotry.


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 9, 2014)

Mprinsje said:


> By the way, as someone who doesn't watch american news networks regularly but who does get to watch some of it because internet, it seems that every goddamn news network in america is really biassed in one way or another.


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 9, 2014)

AxeHappy said:


> Did you actually just ask who(m) these someones are? A someone is, by definition, an unknown person.
> 
> Meaning, Explorer is saying that if any one unspecific individual is against gay rights...
> 
> ...




Actually it's you who needs to "look it up".
Explorer, like always was just taking another unwarranted bash on FNC, claiming they're such a racist and bigot network.
maybe he and you are just hyper-sensitive, just looking for reasons to play the victim. It's in the liberal blood it seems these days .
I'd suggest to just grow up, grow a pair, and quit pretending all the religious folks are out to get you.


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## Axayacatl (Nov 9, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> ... just looking for reasons to play the victim. It's in the liberal blood it seems these days .



I've seen FNC channel cry about War on Christmas and whine about attacks on the 1%-ers from 99%-ers.... I'm not saying you are wrong about 'liberals' just perhaps a more balanced statement is that 'looking for reasons to play the victim. It's in our _American_ blood these days!'



TRENCHLORD said:


> As I said already, I watch FOX NEWS frequently



Why? Do you work for The Daily Show with John Stewart?


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 9, 2014)

All those hot blondes AND Bill O. just for a bonus, how could i not watch?


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## UnderTheSign (Nov 9, 2014)

Ah yea, Bill O... The man that called Amsterdam a cesspool of corruption, occasionally forgets Amsterdam and the Netherlands as a whole are not the same thing and refused to acknowledge it when statistics proved him wrong. Sound fella, old Bill.


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## Mprinsje (Nov 9, 2014)

UnderTheSign said:


> Ah yea, Bill O... The man that called Amsterdam a cesspool of corruption, occasionally forgets Amsterdam and the Netherlands as a whole are not the same thing and refused to acknowledge it when statistics proved him wrong. Sound fella, old Bill.



he's right that amsterdam sucks though.


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## AxeHappy (Nov 9, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Actually it's you who needs to "look it up".
> Explorer, like always was just taking another unwarranted bash on FNC, claiming they're such a racist and bigot network.
> maybe he and you are just hyper-sensitive, just looking for reasons to play the victim. It's in the liberal blood it seems these days .
> I'd suggest to just grow up, grow a pair, and quit pretending all the religious folks are out to get you.




someone - definition of someone by The Free Dictionary


I don't pretend all religious folks are out to get me. Nor did I even come anywhere close to suggesting that. 

I said that bigotry against atheist has been displayed on Fox News. And provided an example. 

I'm also not a liberal and have actively voted against the Liberal party in every federal and provincial election I've been able to, so feel free to pull your head out of your ass anytime now.


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## GuitaristOfHell (Nov 9, 2014)

All the Christians with iPhones are probably like "I need to get rid of this! Ah contamination!" . Go Apple!


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## TRENCHLORD (Nov 9, 2014)

AxeHappy said:


> I'm also not a liberal and have actively voted against the Liberal party in every federal and provincial election I've been able to, so feel free to pull your head out of your ass anytime now.




Woops, my bad , and good for you on the voting.


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