# Are 8 String guitars being marketed towards metal guitarist for quick buck?



## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

Hey all, seems as if companies like ibanez and schecter (hell raiser C8) are trying to make a quick buck out of the 8 string with metal guitarists. Why do i say that you ask? well, for instance, having seen all the promotional videos with dino and ibanez and the schecter c8 vids on youtube, kinda looks like to me they wanna target metal heads and make us wanna buy an 8 string. I really dont think an 8 string is neccessary for MOST metal, maybe some progressive metal yes, but still, i think you could tune a 7 string lower with heavier gauge strings, or better yet, make some decent 7 string guitars that are longer scale and made to tune to F#. 8 strings are really expensive to make and cost heaps. It just looks as if this whole 8 string thing is a gimmick and yes i know ppl said that about 7 strings, but come on, 8 string for Death Metal? a 7 string could pull that off easily youd have plenty of range for it. I guess maybe messhugah make use of the 8 strings, but still, did they really have a desire to use the full 8 strings in the first place for their music or did they just think - hey wow we have an 8 string guitar now, lets make sure we use all those strings so we dont look stupid!.. idk, just seems a bit like a marketing ploy, they think average death metal guitarists will fall into the trap. im sure, with a 7 string tuned F# you wouldnt want to solo past the highest string on the 24th-27th fret now would you?, not for death metal anyway, which it seems is what theyre targeting.


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## Jeroenofzo (Aug 13, 2009)

The world is not about death metal. 
Also, be a bit more open-minded. There are 8-strings being used for Jazz or Blues for example. Why rant about death so much? I've seen most ERB's being used in death. I don't rant about that either; 'Haven't they got enough range with 5 strings? Buy a guitar!'

Your range of notes might not be the same range for somebody else.


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

Yes true, you have a point, im not saying a 8 string is useless by no means. Just seems convenient for say messhugah and the guitar companies. The band thinks hey, if we collaborate with the guitar company and make everyone want the 8 string, well make alot of cash. I mean, did messhugah really come to the guitar company and ask for an 8 string? All im saying is, its kinda cruel making ppl want a super expensive guitar when they could make a 7 string longer scale guitar alot cheaper, or even put heavier gauge strings on a 7, and it would satisfy alot of ppl for that lower end sound.


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## dexmix (Aug 13, 2009)

On a slightly related note - does anyone else thinks its funny seeing videos of Dino playing an 8 string guitar, but only using the bottom 3 strings?

Or what about when Fredrik tapes up his top 3 strings to help keep em quiet.


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## Rick (Aug 13, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> I mean, did messhugah really come to the guitar company and ask for an 8 string?



Yes, actually, they did. The custom 8s they were using before didn't hold up well from what I heard so they asked Ibanez to make a couple for them. And thus, the 8 string "craze" was born. People wanted to own an 8 string and made it known. 

Your original question would also pertain to sevens since Morbid Angel and Korn were 2 of the first metal bands to use 7 strings.


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## TheAceOfSpades1 (Aug 13, 2009)

To me it seems like what you don't realize is that the 8-string opens up a whole new lot of more chord possibilites and positions that simply aren't available on a 7-string just as the 7-string compared to the 6-string. It's not all about having the extra low notes.


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## InCasinoOut (Aug 13, 2009)

I don't see why you keep ranting about "super-expensive 8 strings" when it seems like the majority of 8 string players here own Agile Intrepids, which are far from super expensive, and are easily the most affordable productions 8s out. 



MoRtY said:


> All im saying is, its kinda cruel making ppl want a super expensive guitar when they could make a 7 string longer scale guitar alot cheaper, or even put heavier gauge strings on a 7, and it would satisfy alot of ppl for that lower end sound.


Actually, I think what's more cruel is Rondo Music putting out a bunch of 8 strings in various configurations and options at a very reasonable price, which in turn just makes people want to buy several 8 strings.


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

yes thats kinda what im getting at. seems as if they could get by with 7 strings, maybe theyd have to get custom made ones. Yeah i know the schecter c8 looks like a beast, and so does the ibanez, the guitar looks awesome. But i think its mostly just a fad with metal and it will pass, sure progressive bands like dream theater and such would dig it, but its dumb if ur only gonna use the top 4 strings... Should just play a down tuned 7


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## Rick (Aug 13, 2009)

After The Burial can't "just play a down tuned 7."


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## TheAceOfSpades1 (Aug 13, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> yes thats kinda what im getting at. seems as if they could get by with 7 strings, maybe theyd have to get custom made ones. Yeah i know the schecter c8 looks like a beast, and so does the ibanez, the guitar looks awesome. But i think its mostly just a fad with metal and it will pass, sure progressive bands like dream theater and such would dig it, but its dumb if ur only gonna use the top 4 strings... Should just play a down tuned 7



I don't think you even read my post. Also, people should be able to play whatever they want to play.


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## RG7 (Aug 13, 2009)

Im buying 8 strings for classic rock, blues, modern rock for the 6 strings. I choose this because of the extended scale length and wider fretboard, I like wide. I play metal too, everything from death too emo to experimental prog. this is were I take advantage of the other 8. So It really depends on who's buyin.


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## InCasinoOut (Aug 13, 2009)

This sounds like the same argument that old-school purists have when they say you should tune down a 6 string instead of buying a 7.


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## Jeroenofzo (Aug 13, 2009)

Or perhaps you like the neck better. I prefer a Ibby 7-neck over a 6 string wizzard II. Ah well, i've never tried a 8string. Meshuggah is using the higher strings too. 
You could downtune a 7, but everytime you want to play a fun lick, you have to transpond and whatnot, or grab a other guitar. That's why a 8-string is a 'Extended range instrument'. You still have the power to use it as a 6 string, but if you need it, you can go lower without hassle.

I consider playing lower as a art. Everyone can downtune and chug around. Bands like Nevermore, Meshuggah, Emperor and such, really showed me the benefits of an extra string. Imo!


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## Demiurge (Aug 13, 2009)

To the OP: There's no denying that companies are going to market 8 string guitars to a metal market. Some metal bands (yeah... Meshuggah almost exclusively for awhile) were using 8's that we custom-shop guitars. Other players who heard of this (not surprisingly, listening to said metal) wanted their own. Not everyone can afford custom shop prices. Enter the big companies with production models. There was demand, they provided the supply- no biggie!

As far as the other part of your argument, basically the "why 8 strings, how come 7 isn't enough?" argument... well, some people have use for all of them strings. For the rest of us, it's still an awesome instrument to play and to show off to people. I'm no virtuoso, but I feel like I have a reasonable command of my 6-string, to make it do what I want to do. My 8-string, though, reminds me that I have so much to learn.


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## dexmix (Aug 13, 2009)

InCasinoOut said:


> This sounds like the same argument that old-school purists have when they say you should tune down a 6 string instead of buying a 7.



I dont know that hes making the argument that people shouldnt use 8 strings... more that most people dont actually need 8s or 7s even.


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

not really, i know about the extra chord possibilities. Just saying, for people who just want the low end sound etc, you could get by with a 7. Just like slayer, shadows fall, metallica, in flames, arch enemy, sepultura, carcass, six feet under, black sabbath, pantera, death, the deftones, soilwork, killswitch engage have all done in the past, use a 6 string with down tuning. I know it opens up possibilitys in some regards, but still,..


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## Rick (Aug 13, 2009)

Some people like having the extra range on both sides of the scale, After The Burial, for instance definitely uses all 8 strings.


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

i actually have a 7 string guitar myself and love it. Just i doubt alot of ppl who are conned into wanting an 8 string will use it to its full extent when it comes to metal. Some ppl will.
I wasnt familiar with agile and their cheaper 8 string offerings though. Dont get me wrong id love to play around with an 8 string, just looks as if its being forced on players particularly say maybe divine heresy fans who could play the songs on the down tuned 7. Still yes its kind of the same argument with the 6 string vs the 7 yes i know.


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## Rick (Aug 13, 2009)

8 strings aren't being "forced" upon anyone, not really sure where that's coming from. I love DH and I won't be buying an 8 string anytime soon, if ever, for that matter.


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

yeah i just checked out after the burial, they do make good use of the 8 string. They sound progressive in parts as well, but i cant say i really like their sound at all. Just sounds as if in parts theyre really making an effort to make use of the 8, and thinking they should still throw some metalcore into the mix, or the otherway around. idk, i just dont like em.


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## Rick (Aug 13, 2009)

Whether or not you like ATB has nothing to do with this thread. Those 2 can definitely fucking play, especially Trent, and they make damn good use of all 8 strings.


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

yeah i know rick, sorry for saying that, they definetly can play. Yeah i know people should be able to play what they want, but i know that if i want to play in F# im going to at least try and downtune a 7 string first, before wanting an 8 string.

back on the 'extended range' note, and having the ability to play in both ranges without having 2 guitars, wouldnt it be difficult to play an 8 string guitar as a 6 in some regards? considering the the massive wide neck it has.


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## Adam (Aug 13, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> back on the 'extended range' note, and having the ability to play in both ranges without having 2 guitars, wouldnt it be difficult to play an 8 string guitar as a 6 in some regards? considering the the massive wide neck it has.



Actually 8 string necks arent as massive as you mught think, here have a look at my 6 next to my 8 next to my unfinished 11


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## Daemoniac (Aug 13, 2009)

TheAceOfSpades1 said:


> To me it seems like what you don't realize is that the 8-string opens up a whole new lot of more chord possibilites and positions that simply aren't available on a 7-string just as the 7-string compared to the 6-string. It's not all about having the extra low notes.



This. I've yet to play an 8 string so to be fair i can't say for sure, but an 8 (or even 9) string is on my "to buy" list at this point. It's not for the soloing potential per se, nor is it entirely because i'd make use of all the strings all the time, but rather i like the feel of a thicker neck, i enjoy the chord and tuning possibilities they present (open/bar chords, more notes, multiple strings with slightly different gauge strings tuned to the same note etc..). It may seem like a waste to you, which is fine; Don't buy one. Doesn't mean that other people don't enjoy the feel more or have a use for it somehow.



dexmix said:


> I dont know that hes making the argument that people shouldnt use 8 strings... more that most people dont actually need 8s or 7s even.



Why not? Maybe they prefer the feel? Maybe, even though they rarely use the range, they feel better knowing it's there when they _do_ use it? Whatever the reason, and no matter how simple it may seem, everyone plays an instrument for a reason, and who are we to say that reason is unnecessairy/stupid/whatever?



Rick said:


> Some people like having the extra range on both sides of the scale, After The Burial, for instance definitely uses all 8 strings.



Again, this. See above.


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

lmao, are you making an 11 string? thats awesome, hehe. Ive seen an 11 string bass, like that guy on youtube, playing the super mario theme on it hehe. Yeah i never said i didnt like the 8 string idea, just if i wanted the ibanez 8 string for example, itd definetly be out of reach, considering how much they ask for it, (unless thats changed?) I didnt know about the agile guitars


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## BrainArt (Aug 13, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> not really, i know about the extra chord possibilities. Just saying, for people who just want the low end sound etc, you could get by with a 7. Just like slayer, shadows fall, metallica, in flames, arch enemy, sepultura, carcass, six feet under, black sabbath, pantera, death, _*the deftones*_, soilwork, killswitch engage have all done in the past, use a 6 string with down tuning. I know it opens up possibilitys in some regards, but still,..



Stephen Carpenter has retired his 6-strings, and uses 7s and 8s now.


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## Metal Ken (Aug 13, 2009)

Yeah, they're definitely being marketed towards all the chuggachugga djent types. The only people i can think of that have done really cool shit with 8 strings are the non-metal guys.


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 13, 2009)

I said in a different thread a few months back that seven strings are marketed at the metal community and everyone told me I was wrong


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## Metal Ken (Aug 13, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I said in a different thread a few months back that seven strings are marketed at the metal community and everyone told me I was wrong



I dunno bout that. They have a bit broader appeal, but not much. I have an 7 string nylon acoustic, and you can find 7 string jazzboxes, too. I have yet to see a production nylon string 8 or a jazzbox 8 that wasnt a one-off. 3/4, if not more of all 7s are indeed solid body, high output pickup, floyd having face fuckers of awesome, though.


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## TravTrav (Aug 13, 2009)

i'm not really into metal that much, i'm more on the jazz/fusion progROCK (NOT METAL) side of things, i listen to metal, i know the bands and players people rave about... 

but to be honest demoniac said it in way more words then i will...

musicians play what they want to, weather it be standard, extended, stock or custom... it's totally to the musician...

the only reason why ibanez etc have been doing the webisodes and stuff is to make money, they are in business, and like it or not, so are the bands that are in the videos, they have to live, they need pay to live, they work to get paid to live... i mean, it totally sucks becuase they can't jsut ride off the fact that they are amazing musicians, but that's just a cold hard fact about working, whether in a band or in an office or in a factory, you do what the people with the money tell you..

i also play ERG's and build them, i'm a huge advocate for them, but to eaches own.


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## AZ7 (Aug 13, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken, 7's originally experimented by Vai and Lynch and were trying to go higher no lower, but unfortunately on the high end, strings couldn't handle the tension. Hence - go the other way.

Vai himself says that 7's with the added low add more depth even if playing up the neck on the lower registers. There's just a different tone and sound to the larger strings up on the neck. And, it goes the same with 8's.

It also goes with the territory that 7's and 8's, not only do add they extra frequencies of going lower - but now add the extra length of the necks to baritone and beyond - you get sounds that you just can't get with a standard neck on a 6 or a 7 or even emulate with all the effects in the world.

Its all about being progressive! Not about being metal. Over time, ERG's will be widely accepted in other genres! ERG's are not for everyone especially those who don't want a challenge or the closed minded!


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 13, 2009)

the way I've always looked at it is that while 7 and 8 strings can be used for absolutely anything, they are an obvious choice for metallers as they can go lower, thus acheiving more doomy, evil and more moody tones.

there's something about a low F rung out or a low G# rung out that just screams 'metal' and 'br00tz'.


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## wannabguitarist (Aug 13, 2009)

Rick said:


> After The Burial can't "just play a down tuned 7."



That's what I thought, but there's a kid that plays (very good) ATB covers on a down tuned six


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

I think 8 strings are great and have enormous potential musically, sorry if you thought i meant otherwise. Obviously there are limitations of the 7 string in all music as well as metal and stuff u just cant do on a 7 then you can with 8. But remember, a 7 string does have quite a wide range musically, you could still do alot with a down tuned 7 string (F# tuning) as regards to metal, other genres of music aside. Having the Extended range thing is very cool though, i liked what this guy does with the 8 string, heavy yet melodic, and it doesnt look like hes using an 8 string just to prove a point -


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## Explorer (Aug 13, 2009)

As someone who has never played death metal, I might not be in the target audience for the mind control campaign of which Morty is one of the hapless victims.

For what it's worth, I play mostly new acoustic music type stuff. I had been playing on six strings in full fifths tuning (C2 to B4), and wanted to extend it downwards, since going further up isn't an option (nor even desireable for my own music).

I now have one eight-string in full fifths (ESP LTD FM-408), and will be looking into setting up my new Intrepid Pro in the same way. Having the range means I can play anywhere I please. Just downtuning a six or seven string wouldn't give me the range of a violin on top as well.

Even when the FM-408 wasn't in full fifths, it was tuned EADGCFAD, with the bottom four strings tuned as a standard electric bass, and the top six strings tuned as a six-string downtuned a whole step. No death metal was played in that setup, but it was a great instrument for funky touchstyle. It was also the perfect jam instrument, as I could play in any range not being covered by other players.

Morty, although instrument companies might try to market things however they wish, are death metal guitarists really as vulnerable to advertising as you say? I really had no idea. That's really sad that none of them can think for themselves. 

I'm more inclined to think, though, that you are mistaken, and that although there is marketing going on, death metal guitarists are not the lemmings you imply. I'm sorry to ask this, but is your opinion of the vulnerability of death metal guitarists to advertising a personal admission, which you have mistakenly attributed to everyone else? In that case, I'd advise you to not watch TV, listen to radio, or read magazines or newspapers, because if you're this worked up about it, you need to learn to resist those things.

In any case, with my eight-string instruments, I can cover a huge range, and do what I want to musically; it would take at least 12 fourth-tuned strings to cover the same range as my fifth-tuned FM-408, and I use the entire range. I recommend to you that you consider the other applications for which instruments can be used. In so doing, you might find that your horizons might be a little wider than they used to be, and you'll be less focused on a generality which might not be accurate. That's the upside of gaining perspective....


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## signalgrey (Aug 13, 2009)

i for one have really struggled to find ERG's that arent designed for teh br00talz. Finally a telecaster came out from Agile which looked nice.

Im chatting with Sebastian to get a custom roter that will actually fit the bill. And the same goes for the 8's i would like to see those kinds of guitars designed for other styles.

i have the Tic tac bass guitars (Barracuda, Fender VI etc..) and then there are the UV's and Schecters and Ibbys. 

as for meshuggah and taping down 3 strings...well thats just silly..just play a five string. those zaney guys.


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## AZ7 (Aug 13, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> Having the Extended range thing is very cool though, i liked what this guy does with the 8 string, heavy yet melodic, and it doesnt look like hes using an 8 string just to prove a point -



Chances are, he's probably not really much of a 7 string player yet alone an 8 string player. He probably took it out of the box, tuned it up, got in front of the camera, shot the vid, put it back down and has never really picked it back up since. Just a thought - not proving a point!


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

haha no i dont think death metal guitarist are lemmings when it comes to advertising, im death metal fan myself, and regularly play the style and also thrash metal/heavy metal/progressive metal/hard rock/nu-metal/industrial metal/metal core/melodic death metal/neo classical metal, elements of progressive rock etc, im just saying, some of these companies seem to have the odacity to think we are lemmings, and will jump on any bandwagon, whether its 8, 9, 10 string or 20 string for that matter, when our music might just suffice with a down-tuned 7 (F#) string, no they say, dont bother considering down tuning ur 7, we wont come on youtube or whatever and tell you about that. Instead we want you to buy a 4 thousand dollar 8 string guitar (yes the RG2228 nearly costs 4 grand here). Sorry if i sound pessimistic, but i thought i was just ahead of the race with owning a 7 string, and now an 8 string is out, lol. I guess i do need a job lol. (currently unemployed )


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## TomAwesome (Aug 13, 2009)

8-strings aren't being produced to make a quick buck. Far from it, it took a lot of time, work, and R&D to make an 8-string instrument that at the time they weren't even sure would sell. Yes, they are being made in the interest of turning a profit, but so is every other guitar that is built for the purpose of being sold. I don't think any of these companies have been forcing them down our throats or forcing people to want them, and they're being marketed mostly toward the metal crowd because they know that most of the people who will want them will want them for metal.

You're contradicting yourself a lot here. You're using the same arguments against 8-strings versus 7-strings that people make against 7-strings versus 6-strings. By your own logic, you shouldn't even be using a 7. Anything that can be said in defense of a 7 can also be said in defense of an 8. If you want to tune really low and don't care about the extra high strings, use a 7 or a 6. I have a 30" scale 6-string that is focused on the low end. It's great for what I use it for. If you want more range on the low end without losing range on the high end, or even more high end without losing range on the low end, then that's part of the point of having extra strings: it adds range instead of just transposing it.


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## Trespass (Aug 13, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> and it doesnt look like hes using an 8 string just to prove a point -



I've disagreed with pretty much everything you've said so far, aside from the fact that the production companies are marketing to the only large audience willing to buy an 8 string. But the hilarious part is, I feel THIS guy, is the epitome of your point; the misuse of 8 strings. I mean really, this is a very subjective thing, but I feel a bunch of stereotypical 6 string licks and low F# chuggah are two fragmented and unrelated ideas that do not demonstrate the collective benefit of an 8 string. (The licks he is using could be accomplished on a detuned seven, or even on a six [if you transposing] thus proving your argument)

So, I have no idea what you're really trying to say. It seems you made a mass statement about the use of 8 strings and where they are marketed, without really understanding what you're talking about. You have been quickly proven wrong.


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## vlover (Aug 13, 2009)

This thread makes me want an 8 string real bad.


And musicians should limit themselves as much as possible.

Is this debate about the value of death metal? Because Les Paul died today, he created a something new, people liked it and have been copying it ever since. Its no different than a death metal band making 8 strings sound good to the masses and people copying them. Unless you think death metal sucks and anyone who seeks to be apart (using their styles) of it must suck as well.



Now anyone who copies screamo sucks


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## Trespass (Aug 13, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> haha no i dont think death metal guitarist are lemmings when it comes to advertising, im death metal fan myself, and regularly play the style and also thrash metal/heavy metal/progressive metal/hard rock/nu-metal/industrial metal/metal core/melodic death metal/neo classical metal, elements of progressive rock etc,



Thank you for your unsolicited musical resume, but how does your particular "credentials" solidify your position? I fail to see how that makes you an authority, or demonstrates why death metal guitarists aren't lemmings. Do you believe your experience in death metal speaks for all death metal players?

Isn't death metal, via the culture surrounding it, a culture of lemmings? The fashion style, the philosophy, the music etc.



> im just saying, some of these companies seem to have the odacity *(AUDACITY)* to think we are lemmings, and will jump on any bandwagon, whether its 8, 9, 10 string or 20 string for that matter, when our music might just suffice with a down-tuned 7 (F#) string,



Companies create items to sell them. Some definitely cater to image and target groups, and build rapport with those target groups, and some certainly take advantage of that. But these things must be able to sell. There is no market for 9+ strings. Will there every be a market? Personally, I can't see it: 

9 strings imply either going lower or higher, and to facilitate lower than the low F#, fanned frets or an incredibly long scale length will be needed - And all production companies thus far (sans Agile) have brushed as close to 25.5" as they possibly can, because they are more accessible in the market. Going higher has the same issue - A smaller scale length is needed, or a change in tuning (high G4 instead of A4, breaking the guitars predominantly 4ths based layout and a whole new learning curve) or the use of one of Garry Goodman's strings. Both the Gary Goodman strings, and the high G4 both have their own issues. 9 strings would also imply having pickups that were even across all 9 strings, involving more R & D.

Therefore, unless a new band comes out that uses 9 strings with some all new tuning, and it hits the metal community so hard that it creates a demand for 9 strings, we can assume that it will not happen.





> no they say, dont bother considering down tuning ur 7, we wont come on youtube or whatever and tell you about that. Instead we want you to buy a 4 thousand dollar 8 string guitar (yes the RG2228 nearly costs 4 grand here). Sorry if i sound pessimistic, but i thought i was just ahead of the race with owning a 7 string, and now an 8 string is out, lol. I guess i do need a job lol. (currently unemployed )



So, to conclude with what you're saying, you admit that you are hurt that your seven string is now an obsolete novelty, and are trying to justify this by discrediting the 8 string. Well done. Try making music with what you have, rather than causing an argument to something that's been discussed to death.


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

Trespass said:


> I've disagreed with pretty much everything you've said so far, aside from the fact that the production companies are marketing to the only large audience willing to buy an 8 string. But the hilarious part is, I feel THIS guy, is the epitome of your point; the misuse of 8 strings. I mean really, this is a very subjective thing, but I feel a bunch of stereotypical 6 string licks and low F# chuggah are two fragmented and unrelated ideas that do not demonstrate the collective benefit of an 8 string. (The licks he is using could be accomplished on a detuned seven, or even on a six [if you transposing] thus proving your argument)
> 
> So, I have no idea what you're really trying to say. It seems you made a mass statement about the use of 8 strings and where they are marketed, without really understanding what you're talking about. You have been quickly proven wrong.




Yeah i know i contradicted myself by saying that about the video, i aint perfect. I didnt mean to relate it to the "how i thought you could play that on a F# tuned 7 string" argument either, i was just trying to steer the conversation away from more bshit. If you dont really understand what i mean by this whole thread now and all the comments ive posted i really couldnt be bothered explaining it anymore, im tooo tired.


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## Trespass (Aug 13, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> Yeah i know i contradicted myself by saying that about the video, i aint perfect. I didnt mean to relate it to the "how i thought you could play that on a F# tuned 7 string" argument either, i was just trying to steer the conversation away from more *bshit.*



You can't discredit valid arguments like that.



> If you dont really understand what i mean by this whole thread now and all the comments ive posted i really couldnt be bothered explaining it anymore, im tooo tired.



So you've come to an extended range board, to preach against extended range guitars because of the evils of marketing, and in seeing that you don't really have a clue what you're talking about, put the impetus in failing to grasp your holy truism, on us. 

Ok, perhaps you don't understand the medium of discussion. You define a clear and concise concept, and support it clearly and concisely. Then, we discuss your concept. It isn't necessarily a debate, because there can be tons of interpretation and "I think" and "I feel" without the need to back it up with hard evidence. But damn, when you've missed the logic boat, you better get swimming.

You barged in with claims and allegations presented in a format unacceptable on a 5th grade level, with a poorly thought out purpose and scant evidence to back it up. I'm surprised you stuck around, but so far your attempts to clarify have been akin to dumping more sand in water.


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## Rick (Aug 13, 2009)

I know Mnemic used 6s for B standard until the last album and they started using 7s to tune down to F#.


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## troyguitar (Aug 13, 2009)

The answer to the original question is: Yes. DUH!

Companies make products to make money. The vast majority of demand for 8-strings, especially from Ibanez and Schecter, comes from the metal community. Therefore the 8-strings they make are aimed at said community. 

That should all be obvious though, so I must ask: What's your point?


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## MoRtY (Aug 13, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> The answer to the original question is: Yes. DUH!
> 
> Companies make products to make money. The vast majority of demand for 8-strings, especially from Ibanez and Schecter, comes from the metal community. Therefore the 8-strings they make are aimed at said community.
> 
> That should all be obvious though, so I must ask: What's your point?




My point is is that i hate how advertising/marketing/guitar try to manipulate people by using the force of particular a band that is using the 8 string now when i can happily go play similar or the exact music on my awesome 7 string guitar, downtuned, and still cover the range. The whole thing doesnt really bother me anyway, and this argument is now finished for me, sorry to create a stir tresspass, and to the rest of you, i didnt think this would strike a chord as much as it did. Obviously this kind of thing has been discussed alot on these forums,, im sorry.


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## jsousa (Aug 13, 2009)

Don't feel bad OP. You had an opinion and you voiced it. You weren't rude or acting like a dick. I see that marketing does have an effect on people and many people will end up with 7/8s that they really never needed. I agree that people shouldn't skip from a 6 to 8--that defeats the purpose of progression with the instrument (guitar.)

at the end of the day, to those that use the 8s to their minimal extent, it's about what facilitates your creativity and ultimately what makes indiviuals happy that counts.


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## pink freud (Aug 14, 2009)

The real answer to the issue is "Who cares?"

Not being a dick to you, but if they want to market a product at a certain demographic, all the power to them. Especially if said demographic responds really well.

8 string guitars are very powerful tools that can do so much more than a regular guitar, and take a certain type of person to use them to their full potential. but we have to accept that that's not going to happen. 

Just like a Corvette will only be used to it's full potential if a professional racer buys it, while chances are instead a middle-aged balding white guy going through his mid-life crisis will instead, we have to accept that for every true musical genius out there, there's a thousand bedroom rockers flogging powerchords. But it's thanks to those bedroom rockers that the instruments are even marketable and profitable in the first place. Without them, we'd still be in the days of spending a minimum of 3, maaaaybe 2, grand for a custom made 8 string.


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## Daemoniac (Aug 14, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> *My point is is that i hate how advertising/marketing/guitar try to manipulate people by using the force of particular a band that is using the 8 string now when i can happily go play similar or the exact music on my awesome 7 string guitar, downtuned, and still cover the range.* The whole thing doesnt really bother me anyway, and this argument is now finished for me, sorry to create a stir tresspass, and to the rest of you, i didnt think this would strike a chord as much as it did. Obviously this kind of thing has been discussed alot on these forums,, im sorry.



Honestly dude, it just seems like you're annoyed that now there are new ERG's that have more range than your "awesome 7 string"... which, arguably, was marketed to you with the same style campaign 

And, in fact, you _can't_ match the range of an 8 string with your 7. Unless the 8 string in question is tuned to a double course low B.. but hey, then the 8 has a different effect that can be used as well  So there's _always_ some benefit to using something new as long as _you can see the purpose_.


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## Krauthammer (Aug 14, 2009)

If one cannot play "regular 6string" riffage or songs on an 8string, then one should stick with their 6string. As for 1st question, obviously the lower tuned guitars stick out to the metal guys, yet the guitar can be set up any way you'd like. Maybe a higher string, maybe 3 lower strings, who cares? It's all about what you want and are able to do with at your disposal. 8's=more possibility. Its up to the player to decide what they want to be limited to.


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## Scali (Aug 14, 2009)

I think a direct answer to the question in the topic is simply: yes.
Sure, you can do lots more with an 8-string than just chuggachugga djent... But they are marketed to that audience, probably because that's by far the biggest market for 8-strings. And in the end, guitar companies are in it for the money. They could be making 8-string archtops or nylon-string guitars and all that... but does anyone here believe that they would sell anywhere near as good as guitars aimed at fans of Meshuggah, Dino, etc?
But that's all marketing, has little to do with the musical value and potential of an 8-string. If you want to play anything other than metal on it, why not?



AZ7 said:


> If I'm not mistaken, 7's originally experimented by Vai and Lynch and were trying to go higher no lower, but unfortunately on the high end, strings couldn't handle the tension. Hence - go the other way.


 
Well, Vai has a fascination for occult symbology and such, and the number 7 plays a big part in it (all the Jem models are 7, 77 and 777, for example. But you also see him use pyramid shapes, eyes and that sort of thing often...).
I've always wondered if that's why he was particular about getting a 7-string.

At any rate, as far as I know, Vai was the first to use a 7-string in a rock/metal context. Both with Whitesnake and on his own solo album.
That's what resulted in the Ibanez Universe, the first mass-produced 7-string guitar, which opened up a new world for bands like Korn and Morbid Angel.

However, long before that, jazz musicians had also experimented with 7-string guitars, so in that sense, Vai wasn't the first.
I also heard that in Brazilian folk music, normally played on nylon-string guitars, 7-string guitars are also quite common. But I don't know much about that.



Scar Symmetry said:


> the way I've always looked at it is that while 7 and 8 strings can be used for absolutely anything, they are an obvious choice for metallers as they can go lower, thus acheiving more doomy, evil and more moody tones.
> 
> there's something about a low F rung out or a low G# rung out that just screams 'metal' and 'br00tz'.


 
Well, I don't think 'going lower' in itself has much to do with that.
I mean, most 7-strings are just 25.5" scale, like most 6-strings.
If you'd just put the same low strings on a 6, you'd get the same low range. You'd just lose some of the high range.
If you just want to go very low, I think a baritone is a more obvious choice than a 7-string.
The only advantage to 7 or more strings is that you can go that low, and still have some of that high range preserved.


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## coreysMonster (Aug 14, 2009)

well I'm more of a modern rock player (Tool, kyuss, AiC) and love my 8-string because I can play traditional chords AND have the extra 2 strings to djent on. especially since I'm a piano player first, and a guitarist second, I really like the extra range the 2 added strings gives me. It's not all about metal and chugging, you know. 
I like being able to start a clean melody up on the high strings, go lower, add an expressive low F# before chirping in again with a high e-string run.

EDIT: also, haven't there been 8-string classical guitars for centuries?


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## GorillaSalsa (Aug 14, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> All im saying is, its kinda cruel making ppl want a super expensive guitar when they could make a 7 string longer scale guitar alot cheaper, or even put heavier gauge strings on a 7, and it would satisfy alot of ppl for that lower end sound.



It's a guitar, not food. The guitar companies don't control your GAS, you do. What a first world problem. "Argh, Ibanez is making an awesome guitar, and I want it, but it's so expensive, wah wah wah". 

I thought your original point was going to be that there only appear to be 8-strings for metalheads, when the 8-string crowd is more diverse than that. That would have been a legitimate argument, but instead you've proven that point.


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## phaeded0ut (Aug 14, 2009)

I will agree that of the few 8-string advertisements I've seen have been based more towards folks playing different genres of metal than anything else. However, this does not preclude someone who is not a fan of that genre to give one of these instruments a go if they are interested in a bit more range. 

In regards to 7-string guitars, earlier on, I saw quite a few boutique guitars (and were way out of my price range) that were aimed at jazz musicians vs. any rock derivative. Later on, Stevie Vai and Ibanez did a great job at getting interest in production 7's out there for the virtuoso rock (or other sub-genre) guitarist. At the time, I was thinking that a Chapman Stick would be the way to go for me because it would allow me to be a solo musician able to lay down bass lines, melody and harmony all at the same go or layered via a looper of some form. 

Have to say that after my "discovering" a 7-string on my way to a Tool concert in Baltimore, MD and finding that several bits and pieces of jazz theory came into place much more readily for me afterwards; it was an easy switch. Said guitar was a Schecter A-7 with stock mass production SH-2/SH-4 bolt on neck, basswood body, which the store in question was trying desperately to get rid of, for those who are interested. After that guitar, it was actually rather difficult to go back to a 6/12-string guitar and constantly changing the tuning is not my cup of tea either... 

Now, then, why an 8-string guitar if I'm happy with a 7? Mainly because the low F# comes in quite handy and it was something that I really liked from my days trying out different tapping instruments. As much as I loathe the electrified sound of my Brooklyn Gear (I really should've just waited and got an Agile if user comments are anything to go by) it is a very comfortable guitar to play and the acoustic sound is very happening. So, in both cases of the 7-string and now the 8-string that I'm finding it extremely limiting to go back to a 6/12-string guitar. This became especially true after I got used to certain layouts/mappings of chords on an extended range instrument and then have to yank out a string or two when I'm on a "standard" instrument. Then there's the matter of whether the particular chord can be duplicated without having to raise one or more notes an octave. It just isn't the same at all.

To be honest, if I had my druthers, I'd have an 8-string version of an ES-175D, a 16-string (dual string course) ES-175D, and a 16-string (dual string course) of a solid body, too. I know, I know, totally un-djent! LOL! On a solid body note, I'm looking very forward (ok, I've got a bad case of the impatients) to getting my Roter guitar, just not as happy about paying the VAT (really should be lower and more reasonable, but this is a political/economic discussion for a different thread). 
If it were possible, an 8-string or 16-string version of a Steinberger GL-7AT/GL-7A16 (Bartolini or Q-Tuners with Bartolini active eq and a Starr Switch 3+) would be the pair of dream guitars for me. The instruments would have a carbon graphite neck, body, and body top (they're hollow) in the "boat oar" body configuration, stainless steel frets, with the folding leg rest, either Bartolini or Q-Tuners in a humbucker-single coil space-humbucker pickup configuration, a TransTrem able to go +/- 2.5 Full Steps, Bartolini Active EQ controls, preferably in a 3 band configuration and master volume, with a Starr Switch 3+ to control pickup selection. Again, I understand that this will never come to pass as the all carbon graphite Steinberger is long since dead, but if I could get such a pair of beasts, I'd do it. 

Relative to the 7-string, they've become a bit more mainstream and as such there are quite a number of different guitar makers out there selling to different genres with their wares. 
On production 8-string instruments, gotta say, I really love that Agile and Roter are going out of their respective way to offer up some damn fine instruments at reasonable prices. Please, forgive me if I've missed anyone (or their respective companies) out there doing something similiar. Rather hopeful that more folks will get into these instruments and make them a bit more mainstream over time. I've no illusions that this will occur within the next 10 years, but I could readily be incorrect, too. Who knows, maybe a few more mainstream groups or backup bands might get into using 8-string guitars.

Not too sure about Schecter, ESP and Ibanez as it seems like they've only a few models between them and some of them are fairly pricey, especially if you're looking for a longer scale instrument.

I'm neither a metal-head nor do I aspire to be one and I love my 7's and now 8's. LOL!



coreysMonster said:


> EDIT: also, haven't there been 8-string classical guitars for centuries?



Quite true, and quite a few more strings that were not of a harp configuration (where each string was a single note and was open), too.


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## chips400 (Aug 14, 2009)

I hate old school people who dont respect 7s


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## AZ7 (Aug 14, 2009)

Scali said:


> However, long before that, jazz musicians had also experimented with 7-string guitars, so in that sense, Vai wasn't the first.
> I also heard that in Brazilian folk music, normally played on nylon-string guitars, 7-string guitars are also quite common. But I don't know much about that.



Yeah, knew about that, just mentioned Steve Vai to keep in the context of the Rock/Metal genre. All good!


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## pink freud (Aug 14, 2009)

phaeded0ut said:


> If it were possible, an 8-string or 16-string version of a Steinberger GL-7AT/GL-7A16 (Bartolini or Q-Tuners with Bartolini active eq and a Starr Switch 3+) would be the pair of dream guitars for me. The instruments would have a carbon graphite neck, body, and body top (they're hollow) in the "boat oar" body configuration, stainless steel frets, with the folding leg rest, either Bartolini or Q-Tuners in a humbucker-single coil space-humbucker pickup configuration, a TransTrem able to go +/- 2.5 Full Steps, Bartolini Active EQ controls, preferably in a 3 band configuration and master volume, with a Starr Switch 3+ to control pickup selection. Again, I understand that this will never come to pass as the all carbon graphite Steinberger is long since dead, but if I could get such a pair of beasts, I'd do it.


 
I'd settle for an 8 string + 7 string fretless with sustaniac doubleneck Steinberger.

Is that too much to ask?


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## phaeded0ut (Aug 14, 2009)

pink freud said:


> I'd settle for an 8 string + 7 string fretless with sustaniac doubleneck Steinberger.
> 
> Is that too much to ask?



Please, pardon the tangent.

I'm totally hip, but unfortunately, it looks like the simple answer right yet is, "yes." 

Ned is completely against going back to an all carbon graphite instrument (apparently there were quite a number of issues he ran into) which is a shame as I always felt that he did some of his best design work during that time frame (though the growth he showed with his different violin, cello and upright electrics can never be discounted). Moses isn't the greatest substitute, though I must say that Modulus and Status Graphite are rather happening. 

If you didn't mind going to wood, you may want to talk to David King. David King Bass Guitars 

======================

Getting back on topic, if folks wanted to make the 7-string and even 8-string guitars more "mainstream" then they should get into Country and Western for a bit of time. I know, I know, it's a terrible and horrible sacrifice to make (you'll never feel clean again no matter how many times you bathe in Industrial Strength Clorox) but they'd be out there more frequently get more air time.


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## MoRtY (Aug 14, 2009)

hey i was just thinking about this whole thing and realized what it really is for me . Its pretty much deciding if i want to progress to an 8 string as a metal guitarist, and since ibanez are asking roughly 4 grand for their 8 string offering,
this isnt an option for me anyway (aside from the agile guitars), so yes i guess its ibanez i was mad at. I play an ibanez RG7321, with dimarzio evolution 7 in the bridge and its an awesome axe, considering the price, and its still a budget guitar without the pickup mod. So yeah the 8 string is kinda different if you want to progress to it, it costs alot more from the ibanez crowd. Having said that, I think id rather stick with my 7 string for awhile now anyway, in just standard B/Bflat tuning and Drop A. Obviously if i downtune the 7 to F# im gonna have the exact same problems i faced when i had a 6 string. Ive Been listening to some Divine Heresy and got really into it, Failed Creation is an absolute killer song, and the 8 string would be nice to play around with and use these tones as an influence. But i think at the end of the day i dont really want to progress in that direction,id rather concentrate on the more melodical side and learn how to play better lead guitar, (i know you can do that on 8 string, but it would complicate the process for me). I bought the 7 string because of the extra range and would open up alot more possibilites for me in regards to my playing and metal. So its the same decision a 6 string metal guitarists made when going to the 7, either delve into more range or concentrate on the commandment of the 6 strings you already have, in which, the latter i choose to do now with my 7.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 14, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> hey i was just thinking about this whole thing and realized what it really is for me . Its pretty much deciding if i want to progress to an 8 string as a metal guitarist, and since ibanez are asking roughly 4 grand for their 8 string offering,
> this isnt an option for me anyway (aside from the agile guitars), so yes i guess its ibanez i was mad at. I play an ibanez RG7321, with dimarzio evolution 7 in the bridge and its an awesome axe, considering the price, and its still a budget guitar without the pickup mod. So yeah the 8 string is kinda different if you want to progress to it, it costs alot more from the ibanez crowd. Having said that, I think id rather stick with my 7 string for awhile now anyway, in just standard B/Bflat tuning and Drop A. Obviously if i downtune the 7 to F# im gonna have the exact same problems i faced when i had a 6 string. Ive Been listening to some Divine Heresy and got really into it, Failed Creation is an absolute killer song, and the 8 string would be nice to play around with and use these tones as an influence. But i think at the end of the day i dont really want to progress in that direction,id rather concentrate on the more melodical side and learn how to play better lead guitar, (i know you can do that on 8 string, but it would complicate the process for me). I bought the 7 string because of the extra range and would open up alot more possibilites for me in regards to my playing and metal. So its the same decision a 6 string metal guitarists made when going to the 7, either delve into more range or concentrate on the commandment of the 6 strings you already have, in which, the latter i choose to do now with my 7.



Just for the record, it's not Ibanez's fault YOUR COUNTRY makes the guitars so expensive. Not to mention the value of your currency.


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## phaeded0ut (Aug 14, 2009)

Instead of going with an Ibanez that is not within your budget, have you thought about trying out an Oni or other domestic guitar, MoRtY?


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## MoRtY (Aug 14, 2009)

if i was going to go with an 8 string id go with the cheapest guitar on offer, it wouldnt matter about brand at the moment. So yes Agile or Oni or any brand.
Im not sure if Agile even import guitars into Aus, id have to check that out, and not sure if you can get Oni 8 strings here. The cheapest offering i saw on the web was ESPs new 8 string, which was near $2000. Id say having an Oni or Agile imported the cost would be close to $1000 here, id imagine, although i could be wrong. I did pay close the 1000 for my ibanez RG7321, but i was very very lucky to get that. So i dont think getting an 8 string is on the cards for me at the moment anyway.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Aug 14, 2009)

MoRtY said:


> if i was going to go with an 8 string id go with the cheapest guitar on offer, it wouldnt matter about brand at the moment. So yes Agile or Oni or any brand.
> Im not sure if Agile even import guitars into Aus, id have to check that out, and not sure if you can get Oni 8 strings here. The cheapest offering i saw on the web was ESPs new 8 string, which was near $2000. *Id say having an Oni or Agile imported the cost would be close to $1000 here*, id imagine, although i could be wrong. I did pay close the 1000 for my ibanez RG7321, but i was very very lucky to get that. So i dont think getting an 8 string is on the cards for me at the moment anyway.



You DO realize that Oni makes amazing custom guitars that will smoke any Ibanez you'll ever play, and he lives in Australia, so the final product might be cheaper?


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 14, 2009)

dexmix said:


> Or what about when Fredrik tapes up his top 3 strings to help keep em quiet.



that's what that is? i saw that in a video he did with Morgan Agren (sp?) it was a Sol Niger medley. i always wanted to know what that was hanging from his fretboard. why couldn't he just mute them w/ his hand like everyone else?


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## MoRtY (Aug 14, 2009)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> You DO realize that Oni makes amazing custom guitars that will smoke any Ibanez you'll ever play, and he lives in Australia, so the final product might be cheaper?




ok i might check out Oni in the future, and see what happens, Cheers dude.


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## chimp_spanner (Aug 14, 2009)

The first thing you gotta realize/remember is that Ibanez are in the business of making money, first...guitars second! There are a lot of people with cash to burn who think heavy = lower, and lower = more strings. But it does seem an awful shame to pitch the instrument exclusively at them. I mean, okay - Meshuggah introduced me to the 8 string. And there's no denying I use mine primarily for metal. But I'm trying so hard with it to avoid using it like an over-priced 2 string, 3 fret riffing machine. And ultimately I guess that's what it comes down to: whatever the marketing, and whatever the general perception of the instrument the choice is mine as to how to play it and how to make my mark as an 8 string guitarist. And more importantly, that's why I bought it...not because Ibanez told me it'd make me super heavy and cutting edge. I don't doubt that a lot of people did shell out all that money for that reason, though!

As a semi-related side note, though - it's by no means the last guitar I'll ever need to buy for metal. Originally I was going to sell my 2 7s to fund the 2228. But I still have them, and more recently even got a 6. It's actually not my first port of call for writing metal. It's just another tool for another job. I'd really love to try some of the other models out there at the moment, though.


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## Metal Ken (Aug 14, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just for the record, it's not Ibanez's fault YOUR COUNTRY makes the guitars so expensive. Not to mention the value of your currency.


Nah, ibanez is overpriced no matter what country it is. 1600$ for the 2228 here? fuck that.


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 14, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Nah, ibanez is overpriced no matter what country it is. 1600$ for the 2228 here? fuck that.





the 2228 is £1400 over here, that's $2315


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## chimp_spanner (Aug 14, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> the 2228 is £1400 over here, that's $2315



It'd be a truckload cheaper if they didn't faff around with that crazy bridge! Regular HT would've kept the price down some. That and I would've settled for non-EMG pickups. They're really the pits - no wonder it's the first thing people replace! Don't get me wrong I do love it as an instrument, but even I'd agree that it's way overpriced. I'm just glad I bought it when I did...i.e. before Ibanez prices went up by like..a third! I believe £931 was the cheapest I saw it at Digital Village. Seems like such a long time ago!


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 14, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Nah, ibanez is overpriced no matter what country it is. 1600$ for the 2228 here? fuck that.



So what you're saying is that $1600 and $4000 are the same thing? Personally I'd rather pay the $1600 opposed to $4000.

I agree $1600 is still a hell of a lot, but it's FAR lower than $4000.


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## Hollowway (Aug 15, 2009)

Metal Ken said:


> Nah, ibanez is overpriced no matter what country it is. 1600$ for the 2228 here? fuck that.



Agile Interceptor 827: $800. 
Includes Kahler Pro USA 2228 Tremolo: $409.
Getting a better 27" 8 string for 1/2 the price of an Ibanez: Priceless.

'nuf said.


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## JPMike (Aug 19, 2009)

Hollowway said:


> Agile Interceptor 827: $800.
> Includes Kahler Pro USA 2228 Tremolo: $409.
> Getting a better 27" 8 string for 1/2 the price of an Ibanez: Priceless.
> 
> 'nuf said.



With Ibanez it's more like paying the brand, not the instrument. You get my point?

Really, Ibanez has a big name is guitars, basses, generally in music gear but Agile is not that famous. So yeah, you will pay more for an Ibanez cause it's more well known, think of all the endorsees, etc.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 19, 2009)

With Agile you're getting the instrument directly, with very little mark up, kinda like Carvin. It's no wonder the prices are better. Though having owned an Interceptor and an Intrepid, I'd take the far better build quality, fret work, and thinner neck of the Ibanez any day. 

I'm not crapping on the Agile, for the PRICE, it can't be beat. Though you can't honestly say that the build quality is superior.


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## Yoshi (Aug 19, 2009)

MaxOfMetal said:


> With Agile you're getting the instrument directly, with very little mark up, kinda like Carvin. It's no wonder the prices are better. Though having owned an Interceptor and an Intrepid, I'd take the far better build quality, fret work, and thinner neck of the Ibanez any day.
> 
> I'm not crapping on the Agile, for the PRICE, it can't be beat. Though you can't honestly say that the build quality is superior.



I'd be incline to a certain extent if the point of this post could be used a blanket term for the general guitar population. Most big brand names charge that much because you pay for the consistency of having a quality product within that price range. Agile is more of "You get what you'd paid for". After I order my Agile I'd have a better opinion, but as a general rule of thumb, I tend to fork out the extra cash if it means getting a quality product.


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## Scali (Aug 19, 2009)

JPMike said:


> With Ibanez it's more like paying the brand, not the instrument. You get my point?
> 
> Really, Ibanez has a big name is guitars, basses, generally in music gear but Agile is not that famous. So yeah, you will pay more for an Ibanez cause it's more well known, think of all the endorsees, etc.


 
I'm not sure if I agree with that, really.
Ibanez is in no way as much as a 'name' as Fender, Gibson, PRS and the like.
Ibanez also isn't as expensive as any of those brands (but to be fair, Squier, Epiphone and PRS SE also give you nice cheap options).
Ibanez offers great value for money on their Chinese, Korean and Indonesian guitars if you ask me.
It's mainly the Japanese models that are expensive... but that's what you get when you build guitars in a country with high wages and taxes and all that. Pretty much the same as US-built guitars. Which is also why in such countries it only pays off to build high-end guitars. You can't be competitive with low-budget guitars built in much cheaper countries.

The problem here is that Ibanez currently only offers a Japanese-made 8-string. What they need to do is introduce an RG8321, analoguous to the RG7321 
But I don't think you pay much for the brand with Ibanez. I think it's still one of the best bang-for-the-buck brands out there. The 8-string just happens to be an exception. On the other hand, the RG2228 is a very VERY good piece of kit 

The only thing I would agree on is that you pay extra on the Ibanez signature models.


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## Thin_Ice_77 (Aug 19, 2009)

^^ I kind of agree. Low-end Ibanez are really good for the money, throw in a set of new pickups and you're in business. But the prestige models and generally all of the high-end guitars are way too expensive for what they are. The RG1527 is a prime example. Over here it's £800 upwards- a ridiculous price for something that's basswood (you might like it, a lot of people don't) and stock pickups.


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## canuck brian (Aug 19, 2009)

You hate that advertising companies are doing their jobs and guitar companies are attempting to make profit?  

Of course they're going to push the 8's to metalheads, that's their fanbase. I can't really see Ibanez making an extended scale 8 string and marketing it to the jazz community anytime soon.

Like the others said, if someone wants to use an 8, why do you really care? It's great that you can do everythign you want to on your 7, but some people actually have different tastes than you and just might want to have an 8 for the sake of having it. 



MoRtY said:


> My point is is that i hate how advertising/marketing/guitar try to manipulate people by using the force of particular a band that is using the 8 string now when i can happily go play similar or the exact music on my awesome 7 string guitar, downtuned, and still cover the range. The whole thing doesnt really bother me anyway, and this argument is now finished for me, sorry to create a stir tresspass, and to the rest of you, i didnt think this would strike a chord as much as it did. Obviously this kind of thing has been discussed alot on these forums,, im sorry.


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## Scali (Aug 19, 2009)

Thin_Ice_77 said:


> ^^ I kind of agree. Low-end Ibanez are really good for the money, throw in a set of new pickups and you're in business. But the prestige models and generally all of the high-end guitars are way too expensive for what they are. The RG1527 is a prime example. Over here it's £800 upwards- a ridiculous price for something that's basswood (you might like it, a lot of people don't) and stock pickups.


 
If you ask me, the RG started to lead a life of its own. Most of them are basswood because they've always been basswood.
Can you blame Ibanez, really? They offered a mahogany option with the S-series, but the RG was always by far the most popular.
Makes you wonder... do most people actually want a basswood RG? Or is it just Ibanez who thinks that, since they've always sold the most basswood RGs? Perhaps they think that if they changed the RGs to alder, mahogany, ash or whatever, they would sell less (they did offer various wood options over the years, I guess none of them really took off).


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## phaeded0ut (Aug 19, 2009)

The only thing I'd add to the Ibanez bit is that for a very long time you were really buying a Fujigen-Gakki guitar. Matsumoko was a bit more me (they produced Yamaha SG-3000's to 5000's and their hollowbody jazz guitars for a time, and a few of the upper end Aria Pro 2 solid and hollowbody guitars). Not sure if either company is still around as themselves anymore or if they've been subsumed by someone else.

I do have to agree, you're generally buying a brand name relative to Ibanez, Gibson, Dean, ESP, etc. , ... Agile, it seems is selling through Rondo Music Home Page and Ebay vs. a brick'n'mortar store, again, the similiarity of Carvin comes to mind and this is not necessarily a bad thing for either company. 

Also, I can't disagree with Yoshi (and others) for the opinion of being more prone to purchase something that has better quality rather than something that is "right now." I love my Agile 12-string 335-clone and highly recommend it to someone looking for an affordable electric 12-string guitar. Is it of better build quality than a Gibson? The simple answer is, "no." Is it of better build quality than an Epiphone? Now, we see a shift to, "yes, by quite a bit" better than said Epiphone offering. Also, remember that this is a subjective answer, too. 

These companies are in it for the money (this has been repeated more than once in this thread) and the guitars are in some cases a very distant second. 

Where you might see a difference to this will be from a luthier or luthiers working together and they are trying to promote their respective craft(s). These folks might be charging a bit more for their relatively "production" instruments, but then again, they're also generally adding in a much higher level of quality and "features" relative to a similiar model of a company built guitar/bass. If you look through some of the threads in this area of this site, or on different builder's sites, themselves, you'll find that the vast majority short-change themselves by a hefty margin. Again, I'm trying to avoid a completely custom guitar in this discussion thread, as that would not be an accurate comparison or a good argument for why the whole of 8-string guitars being marketed to metal guitarists.

Is it that the majority of companies out there see the 8-string as a means to separate consumers from their currency using a genre of music as a focus? The simple answer I'd argue is, "yes." However, I would have to add the caveat that 8-string guitars are showing up, again, in other genres of music, too, albeit more slowly and not necessarily in the same roles as what they are within the different types of metal where they are more prevalent (but are still in a niche). 

Again, it reminds me of the 7-string electric guitar, albeit, I think that the 8-string has had a larger boost due to the number of groups out there (signed and unsigned) who have them. Though this could be an issue of a "vocal" minority. LOL!


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## hairychris (Aug 19, 2009)

Aye, there are more metallers in the electric guitar buying world who may be interested in the product then touchstylers or ERG using jazzers. Simple numbers. This is also the case with 7s I'd hazard to guess.

What I've found most interesting with my 8 string flailings is not so much the low F# but the additional range that the 2 extra strings gives you in one hand position (>3 octaves).


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## Yoshi (Aug 19, 2009)

phaeded0ut said:


> The only thing I'd add to the Ibanez bit is that for a very long time you were really buying a Fujigen-Gakki guitar. Matsumoko was a bit more me (they produced Yamaha SG-3000's to 5000's and their hollowbody jazz guitars for a time, and a few of the upper end Aria Pro 2 solid and hollowbody guitars). Not sure if either company is still around as themselves anymore or if they've been subsumed by someone else.
> 
> I do have to agree, you're generally buying a brand name relative to Ibanez, Gibson, Dean, ESP, etc. , ... Agile, it seems is selling through Rondo Music Home Page and Ebay vs. a brick'n'mortar store, again, the similiarity of Carvin comes to mind and this is not necessarily a bad thing for either company.
> 
> ...



Absolutely. Unfortunately, even companies such as Gibson makes mistakes in QC...some more than others. So I'd would also like to add that for what you actually get from Agile, plus the fact that you could mod it to have better hard ware and still come in under a "Big Brand" companies similar spec'd guitar price range AND still have a better product is a plus BUT it is not always the case. You may end up with a really mediocre Agile that no amount of modding or upgrading can fix. Same with brands like ESP, Gibson, Ibanez, Jackson etc etc...you don't get as much of a guarantee with Agile as with the BBs though.

Also, you're right about the use of 8 strings too. Given time, I'm sure 8 strings would have bled through to every genre, somehow someway. 

I personally think it's awesome more people are open to ERG style guitars that deviate from the norm, but 2 types of people hold it back. Those who reject on the basis of ignorance and lack of knowledge on how 8 strings give range etc to a player and those who buy it with a "trend" mindset. But hopefully the latter turns that "Want" into a "Need". That person has just given themself the opportunity to explore the realm of music and guitars. It doesn't really bother me if people buy them because it's trendy, because hopefully their intentions become honest.


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## phaeded0ut (Aug 19, 2009)

hairychris said:


> Aye, there are more metallers in the electric guitar buying world who may be interested in the product then touchstylers or ERG using jazzers. Simple numbers. This is also the case with 7s I'd hazard to guess.
> 
> What I've found most interesting with my 8 string flailings is not so much the low F# but the additional range that the 2 extra strings gives you in one hand position (>3 octaves).



Yeah, the tapping instruments are a very tiny, but extremely vocal group! 

You're second bit about having quite a bit more range in a single hand position is also what got me, besides having the ability to use higher pitched drone strings or lower pitched drone strings depending upon what I'm playing.



Yoshi said:


> So I'd would also like to add that for what you actually get from Agile, plus the fact that you could mod it...



Since not everyone plek's or installs/uses stainless steel frets and strings, ... I'm very guilty of being a mad mod'er.  Either that or just being overly finicky/OCD about what is in my instruments.



Yoshi said:


> I personally think it's awesome more people are open to ERG style guitars that deviate from the norm, but 2 types of people hold it back. Those who reject on the basis of ignorance and lack of knowledge on how 8 strings give range etc to a player and those who buy it with a "trend" mindset. But hopefully the latter turns that "Want" into a "Need". That person has just given themselves the opportunity to explore the realm of music and guitars. It doesn't really bother me if people buy them because it's trendy, because hopefully their intentions become honest.



 
Guilty as charged relative to a 7-string.  Wanted to see what the fuss was about and refused to even try due to the price tags on the Ibanez JEM 7* series of instruments (and because I generally don't like Ibanez solid body guitars). Due to quite a bit of luck, I was able to score a Schecter A-7 for next to nothing and fell in love with the added range immediately. 

The 8 is more or less an extension of enjoying that lower tuning on a Chapman Stick, Warr Guitar and Box Guitar, but not liking the piano aspect of these tapping instruments.


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## bhh1989 (Aug 19, 2009)

Meshuggah uses 8's for clarity. They don't use the 8th string just to be "cool". They have always played that low, it's just that the tension with altered 7's they used to use is floppy and doesn't have a good tone.


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## iondestroyer1527 (Aug 21, 2009)

i love 7's but 8's, as it's been said, are just that much more fun...i love having one more sting to mess with. i like bringing arpeggios all the way through 8 strings and using the low note to accent things...it's a lot of fun and i do play death metal and i don't feel i've been tricked. i made the decision to mess with 8's totally of my own volition and w/o dino cazares briliant abilty to sell a guitar by playing crappy boring riffs. i did however think it was cool that isahn had one!


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## cob (Dec 18, 2009)

I admit I haven't read every page so i hope i dont repeat anything or say something that offends someone elses opinion... as UNmetal as it is to care HAH!

Anyways, i picked up my 7 string to learn the dance of eternity and some jeff loomis. As I developed my own writing style, I found that I cannot function properly without it. Part of the problem I had in my power metal phase was that when I had the B power chord(on the a string 2nd fret for example) it would blend into the melody in such a way that it started sounding empty. The extra string made a huge difference in producing the proper tone to balance range and sound. 

i'm currently working on a pantera-esque piece with a nice blues-y feel but the 4 bar phrase goes 7/8, 9/8, 7/8, 11/8. The melody on the High e string is countered with a harmony chord on the low B and E.

How does this relate to the 8 string? The exact same way. I personally am interested in experimenting but not necessarily buying one. But a lot of what becoming a great musician is about is being able to play exactly what you hear in your head. To capture that song exactly as you intended. I've done some drop A work and found that drop tunings arent for me but with my seven in A standard, i found the same song worked very well. 

The point of music(for me of course) is to convey whatever message you are trying to convey without the limits and barriers of words. In fact, there are even barriers in the language of music. 

The debate of 6 v 7 or 7 v 8 might as well be the same argument I had with a fellow trombone player(my secret love haha) whether or not we needed barlines and, with that, time signatures. How does it affect the sound really? it doesnt but i still need it. i like it as a way of better communicating what i want to happen and better understanding what the original composer/writer may have been thinking when the wrote the song.

Does everyone need 8 strings? Nah, but some do. Does every one need barlines? When you get deep into its actual purpose in the creation of music, maybe you'll change your mind. it just depends on what music is to you.

The point is that it doesn't matter why/where the 8 string is being marketed, it matters how it's being used.


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## whisper (Dec 18, 2009)

hairychris said:


> What I've found most interesting with my 8 string flailings is not so much the low F# but the additional range that the 2 extra strings gives you in one hand position (>3 octaves).



From someone with wrist issues (carpals), I appreciate this as well.


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## wwjfd (Dec 19, 2009)

i only read half of the first post and im not going to read anymore of this thread


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