# Polishing a Satin Finish to Gloss?



## Thall My Circuits (Sep 23, 2019)

I've been searching the internet for the last week looking for answers to my question and have come up empty handed.

I recently purchased an Agile Legacy Pro 727 for the sheer value of the materials versus the cost.

Specs:
27" scale 7 string
African Mahogany body (matchbooked 2 piece)
5-piece bolt on neck
5mm maple top with beautiful burl
ebony fretboard

For $500, I couldn't ignore this beautiful guitar even though I was aware of the risks.
All that aside, the guitar is fantastic and play amazing. My ONLY concern is the extreme Satin finish. I was aware that the finish was going to be satin, but I feel it hides the gorgeous top unless it is in direct light. Pictured below is the guitar at a 45 degree angle to show how the finish hides the top. I spoke with customer service who confirmed with the factory that it is a polyurethane finish that was not polished to gloss.

I don't have experience with guitar finished or poly, but my experience with standard/automotive paint says i should be able to buff this to add clarity. I tested a small area using only a small bit of cut and polish which I applied by hand. This test area appears more reflective (like a grease spot) but did not boost the clarity of the finish. I'm curious if I need to wetsand the top first or if I only need to bring out the DA and give it a real buff.

Any advice is welcome!


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 23, 2019)

The formula for satin and gloss poly is different. You'll be able to buff it to mostly a semi-gloss, as you've done in your test, but you're not going to be able to get a glassy, "wet" looking, high gloss. 

It shouldn't be too hard to strip it to sealer and hit it with some spray gloss though.


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## Thall My Circuits (Sep 23, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The formula for satin and gloss poly is different. You'll be able to buff it to mostly a semi-gloss, as you've done in your test, but you're not going to be able to get a glassy, "wet" looking, high gloss.
> 
> It shouldn't be too hard to strip it to sealer and hit it with some spray gloss though.


Excellent. I forgot to mention that I'm not looking for high gloss. I'm actually okay with a low-gloss or even decent satin. I just feel as though it's too intense currently and would like a bit more clarity because the top deserves to be seen.

Here it is in direct light


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 23, 2019)

Thall My Circuits said:


> Excellent. I forgot to mention that I'm not looking for high gloss. I'm actually okay with a low-gloss or even decent satin. I just feel as though it's too intense currently and would like a bit more clarity because the top deserves to be seen.
> 
> Here it is in direct light



If it's sprayed in layers you might not be able to get much more clarity, but it's worth a shot. 

You can always mesh sand it back to satin if you don't like the results.


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## Thall My Circuits (Sep 23, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> If it's sprayed in layers you might not be able to get much more clarity, but it's worth a shot.
> 
> You can always mesh sand it back to satin if you don't like the results.


That's exactly what I'm thinking. I'm not afraid to strip it down and refinish it if necessary. just trying to take the easiest route first. I truly appreciate all of your help!


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## Randy (Sep 23, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It shouldn't be too hard to strip it to sealer and hit it with some spray gloss though.



As long as there's no chemical mismatch, you can also shoot a gloss or semi-gloss right overtop of it. Won't have a mile deep look to it but will definitely get that shine.


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## Thall My Circuits (Sep 24, 2019)

I started the polishing process last night and all went well. I have yet to remove any hardware to access the whole top but instead started polishing the larger, open areas to see what progress I can make. I'm using a simple two-step method by applying a rubbing compound followed by a polishing compound. So far, all of this has been by hand but I think I could get a better, quicker result with a DA. The poly was sprayed and not sanded in any fashion so it is a tad rough. I think I could get a mirror finish were I to wetsand the top, however, I don't want that extreme of a shine. Pictured below is after the first round of hand polishing


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## boogie2 (Sep 25, 2019)

Looks good!


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## Mattykoda (Sep 25, 2019)

Yeah we need this NGD with a bunch of pictures.


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## High Plains Drifter (Sep 25, 2019)

I thought it looked really cool in the first pic but omg that gloss is looking killer! Can't wait to see some more images. Excellent idea and great job!


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## Thall My Circuits (Sep 26, 2019)

Hey guys, sorry for the lack of updates. I haven't had another chance to work on the polish. I did spend some time playing it and I have to say I'm thoroughly impressed. I currently have no plans of changing any equipment as I feel everything is decent quality. I'll be sure to take plenty of pics during the breakdown and polish process and I'll upload them in a decent manner versus the gigantic pictures I've posted so far.


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## Thall My Circuits (Sep 26, 2019)

As consolation, here is the Agile pictured with a few of my guitars.
From Left to right:
Ibanez RG8
Legator NinjaR-200-SE in Lagunaburst with BKP Juggernauts
Agile Lagacy Plus 727
Kramer Baretta with custom airbrush paintjob. EMG 81/85 Zakk Wylde pickups and electronics. Floyd with Drop-D Tuner. Neck through with Banana II reverse headstock
PRS Tremonti SE with American model pickups, Tone Pro Bridge, and switchcraft electronics


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## dspellman (Sep 28, 2019)

The issue with polishing matte finishes is that most of them contain deglossers -- things like talc powder -- that maintain that matte finish throughout the paint. You can do SOME polishing, but you're ultimately limited in both the amount of gloss you can attain and the amount you can *maintain.*


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## Ibanez Rules (Sep 28, 2019)

Thall My Circuits said:


> I started the polishing process last night and all went well. I have yet to remove any hardware to access the whole top but instead started polishing the larger, open areas to see what progress I can make. I'm using a simple two-step method by applying a rubbing compound followed by a polishing compound. So far, all of this has been by hand but I think I could get a better, quicker result with a DA. The poly was sprayed and not sanded in any fashion so it is a tad rough. I think I could get a mirror finish were I to wetsand the top, however, I don't want that extreme of a shine. Pictured below is after the first round of hand polishing
> View attachment 73091



You can't wetsand a satin finish at the factory or you get a scratchy finish 

IMO it looks great like it is. As Max said, the satin runs all the way thru so you're only going to get a polish to the very top and the rest will remain cloudy. I've always hated satin finishes because at some point they're always going to polish in certain areas anyway, anywhere you make constant contact with the guitar will eventually start to polish. And for the most part satin finishes on bodies are problematic because a gloss finish blem they can wetsand out and polish where a blem on satin is there for life. I reject more satin finishes than anything else, for blem reasons. You get a pimple, some idiot will wetsand it off with 1000 like nobody will notice the sanded patch. And some just spray strange, uneven, you'll get odd lines or patches in the finish. I could go on and on but you get the idea. But I guess enough guitar buyers actually like satin and matte finishes, and as long as they do they'll keep making them until you quit buying them.


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## Thall My Circuits (Sep 30, 2019)

Hey guys, thanks for all the input on satin, finishes, and their behaviors. I've still yet to proceed with any additional polishing. The areas that I have polished by hand have given me the desired effect I was looking for. I cut through the cloudy finish that was preventing the wooden top from being seen in most light and angle. I can now see the wood finish in any angle and even in low light (versus in direct light and straight on). I plan on removing most hardware so I can polish all areas of the top. I also want to paint the pickup cavities black as this was not done before.


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## Thall My Circuits (Oct 1, 2019)

Okay folks,

I made the move last night and finished up. I removed the strings, neck, tuners, truss rod cover, and bridge. I removed the pickup screws so I could move the around without having to disconnect them. I also did not remove the pots or switch, I just worked around them the best I could. I ultimately got what I was after. I have restored a luster to the guitar that truly shows the top wood and color without having to exert too much effort. The finish would require wetsanding if I wanted a smooth finish and mirror gloss (which appears possible), but I'm happy with my results. Here is some before and after.


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## Albake21 (Oct 1, 2019)

I'd call that a success! Might just be the pictures, but it looks to me like it really made the top and colors pop more.


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## Bobo (Oct 2, 2019)

Looks like the original finish was closer to a dead flat or matte to me. Looks more satiny, maybe semi-gloss now. Sheen terms sometimed tend to be loosely used or defined differently. 

It looks really awesome now. Grats!


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## Thall My Circuits (Oct 2, 2019)

Thanks guys. All terms aside, from what the factory told me via email, it seems like all guitars are coated with the same poly. Some are polished and others are left "unfinished". I'm thinking but the texture of the unfinished top that the factory is misting on the top coat to give it a cloudy look. They are going for the satin finish but approaching it cheaply. By polishing up the top and allowing more light in, the colors definitely pop more. It's a bit hard to photograph as most of the light in my house is yellow and dim. I'll try and catch some outdoor pics this weekend.


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## MaxAidingAres (Oct 2, 2019)

Yeah I was gonna say, proper stain finishes include powders to maintain however import guitars that are satin are basically cleared guitars that haven’t gone through wetsanding processes past like 800 grit. You should theoretically be able to wet sand and buff it up to a shine.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2019)

MaxAidingAres said:


> Yeah I was gonna say, proper stain finishes include powders to maintain however import guitars that are satin are basically cleared guitars that haven’t gone through wetsanding processes past like 800 grit. You should theoretically be able to wet sand and buff it up to a shine.



I have a satin finish Agile from around 2008 that has an actual satin finish. 

It also has a real Hipshot bridge. 

I'm not surprised they've gone more economical in the last decade. I should have thought of that.


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## MaxAidingAres (Oct 2, 2019)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I have a satin finish Agile from around 2008 that has an actual satin finish.
> 
> It also has a real Hipshot bridge.
> 
> I'm not surprised they've gone more economical in the last decade. I should have thought of that.



That’s funny because one of the guitars that I was referring (that has satin finish)to was an agile lol


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## ohmanthisiscool (Nov 18, 2019)

This thread inspired me to do the same


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## Thall My Circuits (Dec 3, 2019)

ohmanthisiscool said:


> This thread inspired me to do the same


That's awesome!


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## Thall My Circuits (Dec 3, 2019)

Time for another update:
As I mentioned before, I had only hand buffed and polished the guitar. I wasn't completely sure how the guitar was finished and I had not wet sanded the top for a mirror finish.
Well...Last night I started wetsanding with 1500 to smooth out the finish. Everything was going fine until I ate through the finish on the bottom edge. 
This was okay for two reasons:
1. It couldn't be seen from most angles.
2. This allowed me to see how the guitar was finished.
I was able to determine the wood has not been stained. It appears the guitar was sprayed with a transparent-green top coat, then painted with a mostly opaque purple top coat. The wood top is actually a really nice cut and is hiding under a cheap finish. I'm in the process of sanding everything down to the wood so I can stain it properly. I haven't made much progress since I'm working with very fine sandpapers as to not damage anything. Here are two progress pics.


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## Thall My Circuits (Dec 4, 2019)

More progress.
I'm really at the point where I need to remove all the hardware and properly commit to sanding the body.


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## Thall My Circuits (Jan 7, 2020)

Sorry for the late update. Between holidays, work, and my family, I've been a busy guy. Finally stripped all the hardware and took this guitar as well as my Dean Avalanche 7 to the shop to do some sanding. Taking them both to the wood, reshaping the Dean, and restaining both. I only got about an hour of sanding on the Agile using 300 grit on an orbital sander. I'm going slow and it's going to take a while. It looks like there are multiple layers of finish.


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## Thall My Circuits (Jan 27, 2020)

I finally had a chance to work on this guitar some more. I finished sanding through the purple on the top which allowed me to finish revealing all of the wonderful figuring that was hiding behind the horrible purple. Again, this guitar was finished with some sort of trans tint green, a layer of clear finish/sealant, and then some sort of opaque purple burst. I still need to hand sand the purple in the bevels and the "binding" as well as finish sanding through the green down to the wood. Very happy with how this is progressing.


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## Thall My Circuits (Feb 11, 2020)

Had another sanding session and one more since these photos. Getting through the clear that was between in the purple and green is taking some time. I did sand all of the bevels as well as the binding. I plan to keep a natural binding once I stain the top. I'm glad that I can fully see the entire top now. In love with the burls and the flame


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