# LGM 8 STRING



## chris9 (Jul 3, 2006)

Good news my LGM 8 string should be with me in the next couple of weeks ("hopefully") its been a year and a half in the making so i hope its good.
i,ll let you know as soon as i get it "i can,t wait "!!!!!!!


----------



## Scott (Jul 3, 2006)

Was that the nuclear *green* one?

Edit: I can't believe I spelled "green" wrong.


----------



## metalfiend666 (Jul 3, 2006)

That's a long time to wait. I hope it matches your expectations.


----------



## chris9 (Jul 3, 2006)

Yeah its the nuclear green one and yeah its being a really long wait i,m sure it will be a great guitar!!! i hope so anyway


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 3, 2006)

congrats, i hope it comes soon, those things look awesome.


----------



## darren (Jul 3, 2006)

"Hopefully" Jeremy comes through... i've been waiting about as long, too.


----------



## chris9 (Jul 3, 2006)

Oh have you had promist deadlines too


----------



## metalfiend666 (Jul 3, 2006)

darren said:


> "Hopefully" Jeremy comes through... i've been waiting about as long, too.


 
After the amount of work you did for him it's really bad that you've had to wait this long.


----------



## nyck (Jul 3, 2006)

Sweet! What are the specs?


----------



## David (Jul 3, 2006)

a year and a half?! That's just messed up.


----------



## Scott (Jul 3, 2006)

EKG
LGM
Herc fede
ATD
Christopher Woods

Those are the custom shops or specialty services I can think of off the top of my head that are backlogged, or have been backlogged. Some longer, some shorter than LGM has been. Hell Darren at ATD is basically MIA. All these shops as far as I know only have one person working on guitars, so with a shop like LGM that does car work aswell, it isn't surprising that they are this far backlogged. Not excusing it, but it isn't really anything new. 

Atleast not new if you hang around Jemsite


----------



## rogue (Jul 3, 2006)

you would think that it would be economical for them to hire more workers seeing as theres such demand


----------



## Chris (Jul 3, 2006)

darren said:


> "Hopefully" Jeremy comes through... i've been waiting about as long, too.



You should get your money back from them and email Blackmachine.


----------



## Scott (Jul 3, 2006)

What money?


----------



## Chris (Jul 3, 2006)

Scott said:


> What money?



My bad. Personally I think LGM's are ugly as sin, so I haven't kept up. I assumed that there was some kind of deposit needed to get on his list.

Edit: It's the Leviathan's that I don't care for, just to clarify.


----------



## Scott (Jul 3, 2006)

Well im just sayin, as far as I can recall, Darrens Leviiathan was free of charge for all the website work he's done for lgm


----------



## jtm45 (Jul 3, 2006)

Chris said:


> Personally I think LGM's are ugly as sin, so I haven't kept up.



I'm not at all keen on his Leviathan shape or his headstock shape either. I've seen a couple of the RG/UV type guitars he built earlier on that looked really good though.

I think those Ibanez 8's look really nice (esp. Rusty's) but personally i just couldn't even consider getting an 8 string guitar.It's just one more string than i'm ever gonna' need!

Can't help thinking it's a bit of a 'my guitars got more strings than yours' typa' thing, but then i'm often wrong about these things.


----------



## Scott (Jul 3, 2006)

Chris said:


> You should get your money back from them and email Blackmachine.



On a related note, I just got a PM back from jeremy over at jemsite. I had emailed him about getting a refund on my deposit for my Leviiathan (Which I would love to have. I love the way it looks ) since I have to save for school for September, while paying off other things such as that acoustic that needs to be fixed. He told me that he is working with an investor to get a loan to pay back anyone who would rather have a refund on their Leviathans, instead of waiting. 

So that's good for people who don't want to wait around for their guitar, or if they are in need of the cash. *cough*


----------



## Nik (Jul 3, 2006)

chris9 said:


> Good news my LGM 8 string should be with me in the next couple of weeks ("hopefully") its been a year and a half in the making so i hope its good.
> i,ll let you know as soon as i get it "i can,t wait "!!!!!!!



Don't pull a Rusty Cooley on us and go from playing 9s back to measly 8s  

Nah man, I'm happy for you (and jealous as hell, too  )


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 3, 2006)

Thats weak as hell. Poor business tactics, all around. He takes the money.. spends it all, and still hasn't delivered but what? a handful of guitars? 
If he hadn't started on a guitar i ordered after 6-8 months, i'd want a refund.


----------



## Scott (Jul 3, 2006)

Well to be fair, it isn't like he spent it on a new wardrobe. The dude has sold off every guitar he owns personally to help with the bills and fines that came with his shop. You can't expect the money to sit in his bank account untouched until the guitars are done.


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 3, 2006)

You know you can get business loans for things like that right?


----------



## Chris (Jul 3, 2006)

Scott said:


> Well to be fair, it isn't like he spent it on a new wardrobe. The dude has sold off every guitar he owns personally to help with the bills and fines that came with his shop. You can't expect the money to sit in his bank account untouched until the guitars are done.



Actually, not to slag him, but that's exactly what I'd expect. If the money is to cover the costs of materials, right on. I'd want to see "my guitar's" materials that he bought with my money. 

.2c


----------



## darren (Jul 3, 2006)

Well, it wasn't that my guitar was "free of charge"... it was nogotiated as compensation for me doing a specific piece of work for Jeremy (the lgmguitars.com Web site that launched in October 2004). 

So i don't look at it as me being a customer waiting for a guitar... i'm a supplier waiting for payment.

First he was trying to clear his backlog before he moved from Red Deer to Abbotsford. That didn't happen.

Then he was going to "do his best" to get it done by the end of May. Well, that date came and went without anything more being done on my guitar. I haven't heard anything from him in a few weeks, so i don't have a new ETA yet, but Jeremy knows how i feel about the whole situation, and promises that i won't get screwed.

I'm in "wait and see" mode.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 3, 2006)

This is why I feel safe having a custom guitar made by someone like Bernie Rico Jr. If any of these things happened to me, waiting 1-2 years for a guitar, I'd kill myself in anticipation. As talented as some of these up-and-comers are, at least with some of the more established guys you don't have to worry that things like this will happen.

I hope you get your guitar asap Darren


----------



## Shawn (Jul 3, 2006)

chris9 said:


> Good news my LGM 8 string should be with me in the next couple of weeks ("hopefully") its been a year and a half in the making so i hope its good.
> i,ll let you know as soon as i get it "i can,t wait "!!!!!!!


----------



## Chris (Jul 3, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> This is why I feel safe having a custom guitar made by someone like Bernie Rico Jr. If any of these things happened to me, waiting 1-2 years for a guitar, I'd kill myself in anticipation. As talented as some of these up-and-comers are, at least with some of the more established guys you don't have to worry that things like this will happen.
> 
> I hope you get your guitar asap Darren



Honestly I can't imagine why you'd spend that kind of cash on a BR if you already have two very nice "metal" axes in your K7's. If I were you, I'd just buy a Soloway. I'm sure the BRs are nice, but Jim's guitars are absolute to-die-for pieces of art.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 3, 2006)

Fair enough, and I agree about Soloways breathtaking quality. The thing is, I've desired a custom V-ish 7-string for a long time, which is why I ordered the initial KxK. Unfortunately, my KxK didn't pan out, but my desire for something badass like it, remains. I've been wanting one of those Vixen 7s for as long as I can remember, I'm not even a fan of "metal shapes" really (as evident by the zillion RG/RG-ish guitars I've had), but that thing just always seemed really cool to me.

It may not be totally practical, but it's just something that would make me really happy on principle alone. I probably would play the K7s or my other Ibanez a lot more than the Rico, but just having it, and being able to bust it out at shows or promo pics (bands starting to get serious), is good enough for me. I just really want a badass custom. 

Also, from what I recall, the prices on those Soloways are substantially higher than what I'd be paying for this.


----------



## Chris (Jul 3, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Fair enough, and I agree about Soloways breath-taking quality. The thing is, I've desired a custom V-ish 7-string for a long time, which is why I ordered the initial KxK. Unfortunately, the KxK didn't pan out, but my desire for something like it that is bdass remains. I've been wanting one of those Vixen 7s for as long as I can remember, I'm not even a fan of "metal shapes" really, but that thing just always seemed really cool to me.
> 
> It may not be totally practical, but it's just something that would make me really happy on principle alone. I probably would play the K7s or my other Ibanez a lot more than the Rico, but just having it, and being able to bust it out at shows or promo pics (bands starting to get serious), is good enough for me. I just really want a badass custom.
> 
> Also, from what I recall, the prices on those Soloways are substantially higher than what I'd be paying for this.



Absolutley man, it's whatever makes you happy. That's the very essence of gear-whoredom.  Hell, I've been GASing for a highend Gretsch for as long as I can remember, and honestly I don't even think I'd know what the hell to do with it if I acquired one.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 3, 2006)

Yeah. For the longest time I've wanted one of those Gibson BB King Lucile $3000 guitars. I don't know what I'd do with it either, but I just loved playing it at GC back in the days. Believe it or not that thing shreds. I'd make people laugh running it through a Dual Rectifier shredding up a storm and busting out brutal riffs. Of course it sounded magical on the neck pickup too and clean. 

If i had a ton of money I'd buy all sorts of of diverse things, including a Soloway and, if the Gretch is the same one im thinking of (has a ebony board with no inlays, sort of a mustard green color), even something like that would be sweet.

I just think the Rico suits my desires/needs the most at the moment


----------



## Chris (Jul 4, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Yeah. For the longest time I've wanted one of those Gibson BB King Lucile $3000 guitars. I don't know what I'd do with it either, but I just loved playing it at GC back in the days. Believe it or not that thing shreds. I'd make people laugh running it through a Dual Rectifier shredding up a storm and busting out brutal riffs. Of course it sounded magical on the neck pickup too and clean.



Oh man, me too. I consider myself a solid player and even I feel like I'm bastardizing those when I play them.  If I had one, I'd dress up like Joe Stump and do nothing but play neoclassical shred shows on Lansdowne street with it. 



> If i had a ton of money I'd buy all sorts of of diverse things, including a Soloway and, if the Gretch is the same one im thinking of (has a ebony board with no inlays, sort of a mustard green color), even something like that would be sweet.
> 
> I just think the Rico suits my desires/needs the most at the moment



Rock the fuck on, and make sure you post pics.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 4, 2006)

Haha, you should be able to supplant those black dudes who hang out and play at the Park Street stop on the T. People would probably think you were derranged and leave you a lot of tips out of pity.

There used to be this crazy guy who played two flutes at once with just his nostrils. Funny stuff.


----------



## Chris (Jul 4, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> Haha, you should be able to supplant those black dudes who hang out and play at the Park Street stop on the T. People would probably think you were derranged and leave you a lot of tips out of pity.
> 
> There used to be this crazy guy who played two flutes at once with just his nostrils.



 I've never seen the nostril guy, but I do believe I've seen the Park Street Posse.  I'm a total fucking sucker for all those bastards playing outside downtown. I get drunk, stumble out of Random_Faneuil_Bar_002 and toss 20 dollar bills into every guitar case I see.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 4, 2006)

Yeah, that guy probably moved back to Montreal or whatever. He was a fat french dude who looked like Wilford Brimley. Either that or he had a heart-attack. Either way he was awesome.

I enjoy the guys playing the music in the subways. The only times I didn't, is back when I used to take the T from green line all the way in Newton to the redline in Quincy in the morning to work every day. I was usually grunpy and preferred it to be as quiet as possible. But, on the way home it was cool.


----------



## b3n (Jul 4, 2006)

I can't wait to see pics of thie 8 string... I love the Leviiathan design and was thinking about ordering at one point but all the stories about delays and shit put me off.

I could probably get someone to rip it off for less...hmm.

Oh yeah. PICS!


----------



## darren (Jul 4, 2006)

b3n said:


> I love the Leviiathan design and was thinking about ordering at one point but all the stories about delays and shit put me off.


This is disappointing to hear, but not entirely unexpected. 

I helped Jeremy out because i thought the Leviathan guitars were going to be a huge hit. At the time, he had a really good reputation for delivering solid work, and everybody raved about guitars they had received back from him. The Leviathan series was a great move at the time, and i could easily see him building a steady stream of work as production ramped up and orders started coming in. But other issues and priorities always seemed to be getting in the way.

I just hope Jeremy can get his business sorted out so he doesn't keep people waiting as long as he has. Even still, i feel a lot of damage has been done to his reputation, not because of the quality of work, but because he simply cannot deliver in a timely manner. It's hurt me, too, as i'll no longer take on such projects in good faith, as it's been almost two years since our original agreement.


----------



## chris9 (Jul 4, 2006)

lets just hope he comes through soon


----------



## Drew (Jul 5, 2006)

darren said:


> It's hurt me, too, as i'll no longer take on such projects in good faith, as it's been almost two years since our original agreement.



Damn, and I was just about to ask if you'd do a web site for me in return for an autographed copy of my soon-to-be-released CD.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

Chris said:


> You should get your money back from them and email Blackmachine.



Could always order one from HALO (wink wink) Shameless self promotion at its finest.



Metal Ken said:


> Thats weak as hell. Poor business tactics, all around. He takes the money.. spends it all, and still hasn't delivered but what? a handful of guitars?
> If he hadn't started on a guitar i ordered after 6-8 months, i'd want a refund.



That is what I am saying you spend teh money as you come to that project. That is what the money is for "THAT SPACIFIC GUITAR" Just my two cents


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 5, 2006)

W4D said:


> That is what I am saying you spend teh money as you come to that project. That is what the money is for "THAT SPACIFIC GUITAR" Just my two cents



Exactly, dude. If i give you two grand for a guitar, use the money i gave you on the guitar you're building for me, then live off the rest. Dont take everyones money, live off it, slack, and then move and then start ANOTHER business (or facet of business) and then stop taking orders, then take out a loan to give people refunds THEN build guitars.. just.. take money, build guitar. Chances are, he'd have a lot more guitars done, and more people wanting them if he actually finished them.


----------



## darren (Jul 5, 2006)

Somewhat related, but i was recently watching a show on home renovations, and they said to be very leery of any contractor who asks for money up front for materials. If they're an established business, they should have good credit with their suppliers... it's not the client's responsibility to float business loans to the contractor.

Yes, a deposit is required to commit to the work being done, but if i'm waiting in good faith for a job to be done, the contractor's cash flow issues fall under the "not my problem" category.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

Chris said:


> Actually, not to slag him, but that's exactly what I'd expect. If the money is to cover the costs of materials, right on. I'd want to see "my guitar's" materials that he bought with my money.
> 
> .2c



That is what I am saying. When people order a guitar with me the money that is taken from them is not spent until I order the matierials.


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 5, 2006)

Exactly. A Deposit is TOTALLY understandable.. something like 10% or something easily recoupable. And especially in your case, you should have priority over a regular person in this case, cause this is your payment, instead of money. So its like he's locking up money you could have already spent on a pre-built guitar.


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 5, 2006)

W4D said:


> That is what I am saying. When people order a guitar with me the money that is taken from them is not spent until I order the matierials.



Thats probably why your business is doing well lol


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> Exactly, dude. If i give you two grand for a guitar, use the money i gave you on the guitar you're building for me, then live off the rest. Dont take everyones money, live off it, slack, and then move and then start ANOTHER business (or facet of business) and then stop taking orders, then take out a loan to give people refunds THEN build guitars.. just.. take money, build guitar. Chances are, he'd have a lot more guitars done, and more people wanting them if he actually finished them.



Trust me I know.


----------



## darren (Jul 5, 2006)

Metal Ken said:


> Dont take everyones money, live off it, slack, and then move and then start ANOTHER business (or facet of business) and then stop taking orders, then take out a loan to give people refunds THEN build guitars


Well, LGM's paint business has always coincided with the guitar business. It isn't anything new. It's just taken a greater priority lately. 

What it comes down to is that it's _extremely_ difficult to make a decent living in the guitar business until you've built a stellar reputation and clientele. The people who are doing well at it these days started out 20-30 years ago. It's much more competitive now, and for every successful luthier, there are probably 100 unsuccessful ones. (Just my own made-up figure.) And by "success", i mean you can do the work you want to do, pay your bills and living expenses, live a comfortable life, and put away money for your retirement.


----------



## Drew (Jul 5, 2006)

darren said:


> Somewhat related, but i was recently watching a show on home renovations, and they said to be very leery of any contractor who asks for money up front for materials. If they're an established business, they should have good credit with their suppliers... it's not the client's responsibility to float business loans to the contractor.
> 
> Yes, a deposit is required to commit to the work being done, but if i'm waiting in good faith for a job to be done, the contractor's cash flow issues fall under the "not my problem" category.



While that's actually really good advice in general that I'll keep tucked away for future reference, Jeremy isn't exactly an "established" luthier in any strict sense of the word. He had a good rep for building one-off's for the Jemsite crowd, but when he launched the Leviathan line, he was really just a start-up luthier. As such, the lack of credit lines in place between himself and his suppliers wouldn't really be a red flag for me...

I'm not saying I disagree with you, both on contractors in general and how Jeremy got himself WAY over his head, specifically, but the analogy isn't quite that direct...


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 5, 2006)

darren said:


> Well, the paint business has always coincided with the guitar business. It isn't anything new. It's just taken a greater priority lately.



Well, yeah, but still, i'd be quite upset if he started working on orders he got AFTER mine and finished them before mine, be it paint, guitar,etc.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

darren said:


> Somewhat related, but i was recently watching a show on home renovations, and they said to be very leery of any contractor who asks for money up front for materials. If they're an established business, they should have good credit with their suppliers... it's not the client's responsibility to float business loans to the contractor.
> 
> Yes, a deposit is required to commit to the work being done, but if i'm waiting in good faith for a job to be done, the contractor's cash flow issues fall under the "not my problem" category.




Well coming from the stand point of a Custom Shop also. We do take money up front. But we give people a delivery date. 90 - 120 days it was it usually takes to get a guitar done for some one. Although sometimes problems do come up and you have to extend it. But nothing extreme.

All I am saying is that if you take money for a project. That money _SHOULD_ be sat on until he time comes to use it for making the guitar. Trust me it is tempting to use money from a business account to pay your personal bills, but i have never done that. You have to keep your personal bills apart from your business bills. Give your self a paycheck every week and live on just that. It is easier to keep all records straight and always have your money set aside for manufactoring and refunds if needed.


----------



## darren (Jul 5, 2006)

I don't want to turn this into an anti-LGM thread. He knows he's made some poor business decisions, and he feels really badly that people feel let down.

Nobody can start a business and have it thrive without startup capital. I don't think Jeremy started out with much, so he found himself in a hole very quickly.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

darren said:


> I don't want to turn this into an anti-LGM thread. He knows he's made some poor business decisions, and he feels really badly that people feel let down.
> 
> Nobody can start a business and have it thrive without startup capital. I don't think Jeremy started out with much, so he found himself in a hole very quickly.



I am not ANTI - LGM AT ALL. That is not what I was saying that never came from my lips. I dig there stuff or what I have seen of tehm I have not personally played one yet.


----------



## darren (Jul 5, 2006)

I wasn't directing my comment at you specifically, Waylon. I was just trying to redirect the tone of the whole thread.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

darren said:


> I wasn't directing my comment at you specifically, Waylon. I was just trying to redirect the tone of the whole thread.



I wasn't saying you were. I was just letting the thread know.


----------



## The Dark Wolf (Jul 5, 2006)

I'm a bit anti-LGM. Sounds like he works for 357 Choppers. 

I posted something some number of years ago about a dissastisfied LGM customer on another board, something about a radius being messed up. Jeremey fixed it, and made it right, but said customer was dissapointed in the msiatke in the firstplace. I posted all that... it was someone's thread querying about the LGM quality, and the comments were relevant, be it one board to another. So I posted them, adding the disclaimer it was second-hand, linked the thread, made sure to say original customer was taken care by LGM in the end, yada yada, and ended up getting some decidely nasty private messages and e-mails from Jeremy.

Eh, whatever. I wouldn't buy anything from him, personally.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 5, 2006)

To bad there are no über-rich people who want to invest capital in eight strings, like there were when solidbody electric first appeared.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

bostjan said:


> To bad there are no über-rich people who want to invest capital in eight strings, like there were when solidbody electric first appeared.



Hey if I knew I could sale them I would make a line of them. But honestly just not that many people want them. So until the demand is up I unfortunatly will have to keep it as a custom request only.


----------



## nyck (Jul 5, 2006)

W4D said:


> Hey if I knew I could sale them I would make a line of them. But honestly just not that many people want them. So until the demand is up I unfortunatly will have to keep it as a custom request only.


And an 8 string guitar is not something you want to cut corners on. There are way too many aspects that could make it suck as a production guitar.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

nyck said:


> And an 8 string guitar is not something you want to cut corners on. There are way too many aspects that could make it suck as a production guitar.



First of all. Who said anything about cutting corners?

All I stated was if there was a market I would do the R & D to make this more than a custom model.


----------



## nyck (Jul 5, 2006)

W4D said:


> First of all. Who said anything about cutting corners?
> 
> All I stated was if there was a market I would do the R & D to make this more than a custom model.


I getcha.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

nyck said:


> I getcha.[/Q] Cool


----------



## bostjan (Jul 5, 2006)

Well, I want an eight string. I think a lot of people here would love to have one, but I think that very few of us would actually want to pay for one. The thing is, if I'm going to be paying over $2k for one, it had better be customized to spec., but if they were around $1k, I'd settle for a basic model. I think now might be a great time to get a custom eight, though, since only the finest craftsmen are making them, the parts are all being made to order by companies with some experience making them before.

So if you can get something that is between a prototype and a mass-market production, I think you are doing pretty well. There are still bound to be some bugs to work out, though.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

Well let me ask you all this. 

What would you look for in an Eight string that Listed for $1250 and would street for $1000?


----------



## darren (Jul 5, 2006)

W4D said:


> Hey if I knew I could sale them I would make a line of them. But honestly just not that many people want them. So until the demand is up I unfortunatly will have to keep it as a custom request only.


I find this ironic coming from someone who announced his company was going to produce an economical NINE-STRING guitar about a year ago, and even polled the board for model names, giving away the first guitar to the person who came up with the name "NINE". 

Sorry to bust your bubble, Waylon, but Halo isn't high up on my credibility scale, either. 

Anyway, there are these things called "startup loans" that lots of people get every day to start any number of crazy cockamamie business ideas. But you need collateral (or good credit), and you need to be able to write a solid business plan. Without these, it's probably unwise to be starting your own business.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

darren said:


> I find this ironic coming from someone who announced his company was going to produce an economical NINE-STRING guitar about a year ago, and even polled the board for model names, giving away the first guitar to the person who came up with the name "NINE".
> 
> Sorry to bust your bubble, Waylon, but Halo isn't high up on my credibility scale, either.
> 
> Anyway, there are these things called "startup loans" that lots of people get every day to start any number of crazy cockamamie business ideas. But you need collateral (or good credit), and you need to be able to write a solid business plan. Without these, it's probably unwise to be starting your own business.





Yeah I did. And about that. Sometimes things do not come out quite as planned. I was talking with Gary Kahler about getting nine string trem made as you more than likly recall and well it just was not going to be at a reasonable price for him to make them for me in such a small QTY. As we both would loose money. As soon as one of the three companies I am talking to still are able to come up with a good trem system for a nine string that is affordable I will still honor my word and do that. 

Oh and I know of such things called start up loans.

If I recall we were actually not talking about loans or I was not. I was stating how if you take money for an item it should be used on that item.

I am not saying anything bad about anybody SIR all I am saying is that he should use the funds for the product he is making first. 

*DO YOU NOT AGREE WITH ME OR SOMETHING?*

I never said anything about anybody's credibility. If you read correctly I dig the LGM stuff and have heard some good things. They are very credibile if you ask me they have made some great products sir. Some one said something about him not being able to get a refund. right? That was what was being talked about. *Not credibility!*

This is for you Darren so you can know what I am saying ok. Oh how I missed this forum & you DARREN

For Example: 

Person A orders a custom guitar. He gives money to person B for the guitar. Person B then should use the money that person A gave them. To build the guitar that was ordered. 

Person B should not use money from Person A on anything until the guitar is made and is sent to Person A.


----------



## Chris (Jul 5, 2006)

You two need to meet at dawn with some Pistols.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 5, 2006)

W4D said:


> Well let me ask you all this.
> 
> What would you look for in an Eight string that Listed for $1250 and would street for $1000?



Hard to say. Probably a standard finish, bolt-on neck, adjustable truss rod, dual pickups with at least a three-way switch. Probably a hardtail and rosewood fretboard, unless it was affordable with ebony or pau ferro.

The workmanship would have to be able to stand up against other mid-range guitars, that's most important. The guitar would not be worth buying if the frets corroded after a year or if the screws came loose and stripped out when trying to make adjustments. The truss rod shouldn't break under normal use (if there is such a thing as normal use in michigan), and there should be some sort of clear finish on the neck to protect it from harmful electrolytes in your hands.

Oh and one more thing is no dot inlays. I don't know who the heck likes dot inlays. I think a large portion of us here prefer blank boards.

If I was paying more, I'd expect things more like locking tuners, fanned frets, special pickups, custom materials and finishes, and things of that nature.

As far as the nine string goes, what about a hardtail?


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

Chris said:


> You two need to meet at dawn with some Pistols.



LOL... I AGREE ...LOL

HIGH NOON the SALOON ON THE WEST SIDE OF TOWN


----------



## Chris (Jul 5, 2006)

> Oh and one more thing is no dot inlays. I don't know who the heck likes dot inlays. I think a large portion of us here prefer blank boards.



Fuck yes. That's one of the reasons I don't buy another 7620. Nice guitars, but man, friggin' dots are so boring. At least offset them or something.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

Chris said:


> Fuck yes. That's one of the reasons I don't buy another 7620. Nice guitars, but man, friggin' dots are so boring. At least offset them or something.



What you think about Crossbones for inlays?


----------



## Chris (Jul 5, 2006)

W4D said:


> What you think about Crossbones for inlays?



Kinda been done on the ESP Hammets. I'm not a fan of radical looking guitars though. I'd even prefer a blank board to the crosses on my Hellraiser. 

I'm a pansy though.  I just have a super softspot for blank fretboards and ibby UV pyramids/vines.


----------



## W4D (Jul 5, 2006)

Right on. Just asking. I have two new models and that is what I am putting on them. Also introducing our new head stock. I will have the proto-types there at summer session NAMM.


----------



## nyck (Jul 5, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Hard to say. Probably a standard finish, bolt-on neck, adjustable truss rod, dual pickups with at least a three-way switch. Probably a hardtail and rosewood fretboard, unless it was affordable with ebony or pau ferro.
> 
> The workmanship would have to be able to stand up against other mid-range guitars, that's most important. The guitar would not be worth buying if the frets corroded after a year or if the screws came loose and stripped out when trying to make adjustments. The truss rod shouldn't break under normal use (if there is such a thing as normal use in michigan), and there should be some sort of clear finish on the neck to protect it from harmful electrolytes in your hands.
> 
> ...


Those are some good ideas. I think it should definetly have an EMG 40DC bass pickup because it's the cheapest, easiest available, and sounds great under low tunings. It's basically a big emg 85. They're only about 100 bucks each. 

About the neck. One thing I really hate is how so little production guitars have maple fretboards. I think this would be a huge advantage to have an all maple neck, rather than a 'bar standard' rosewood fretboard. No inlays is definetly awesome looking and brings down the price in a good way. 

My 2 cents.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 5, 2006)

Yeah, I'd love to try a maple board eight (or even a seven, but sadly, i've only seen them in pictures. ), but I'm not sure if it'd change the price very much.

Crossbones are ok, but I would rather have a blank board. Wood lookes cooler than bones, IMO. If it was something like demonic runes or melting clocks, I'd go for it jest because it's different. But blank wood is beautiful and pure and all of that good stuff.

An EMG 40 DC is a good idea, but still has plenty of drawbacks:
1) Tone is more open, like a bass pickup, with less character than say a 707.
2) Extra routing would be incompatible with replacements later on.
3) Some people hate EMG (although I think these people are poo-poo-heads)
4) I just said "poo-poo-head"
5) The extra space they take up limits body design and whatnot.

Although:
1) There is not much else currently available for a reasonable price.
2) The 40 DC has great even response.
3) Did I say "poo-poo-head" up there?!


----------



## nyck (Jul 5, 2006)

I also think Swamp ash would be the ultimate and perfect wood for an 8. A dark stain(stain) finish of some sort would look killer.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 5, 2006)

Yeah, but it's more expensive. We're talking basics here.


----------



## nyck (Jul 5, 2006)

bostjan said:


> Yeah, but it's more expensive. We're talking basics here.


Swamp ash is in the same range as say mahogany or basswood(both ew for the F#) :wink:


----------



## Chris (Jul 5, 2006)

This should be a new topic, and we should get back to Chris's LGM.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 5, 2006)

Jeez I hadn't even realized this was the same thread, sorry.

Anyway, Chris9, keep us updated.


----------



## nyck (Jul 5, 2006)

Chris said:


> This should be a new topic, and we should get back to Chris's LGM.


 sorry for ctealing your thread Chris9, with all the lgm debate and whatnot.

Someone should make a new thread if we are to talk about a Halo 8.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 5, 2006)

Ok continue here


----------



## chris9 (Jul 8, 2006)

nyck said:


> sorry for ctealing your thread Chris9, with all the lgm debate and whatnot.
> 
> Someone should make a new thread if we are to talk about a Halo 8.


----------



## chris9 (Jul 8, 2006)

nyck said:


> sorry for ctealing your thread Chris9, with all the lgm debate and whatnot.
> 
> Someone should make a new thread if we are to talk about a Halo 8.




no problem i just want my guitar its been soooooooooooo long!!!!!!! this pic is all i have of my guitar so far i want the real thing i just hope its soon


----------



## JPMDan (Jul 8, 2006)

god man I want a leviiathan


----------



## chris9 (Jul 8, 2006)

yeah it just looks so cool i,m going mental waiting for it i just can,t wait!!!!! to thrash on it


----------



## JPMDan (Jul 8, 2006)

so what made you choose the nuclear green?


----------



## nyck (Jul 8, 2006)

Holy crap that looks cool! I love the finish and the inlays.


----------



## W4D (Jul 8, 2006)

Looks awsome! Color choice makes it!


----------



## darren (Jul 9, 2006)

I used those inlays on one of my mockups on the LGM site. They were inspired by the inlays on one of Vivian Campbell's custom guitars from back around the Whitesnake period, made by luthier Buddy Blaze. It was the prototype for what became the Nightswan. I basically paid homage to that guitar with this mockup:







The only main difference being that the Blaze had a black reversed Gibson Explorer-style headstock. Oh, and it was a 24.75" scale Strat-derived body style.


----------



## chris9 (Jul 10, 2006)

JPMDan said:


> so what made you choose the nuclear green?



I just thought it would stand out more and i love the old jems in lockness green so i went for it and i,m pleased i did it looks mental


----------



## jtm45 (Jul 10, 2006)

I'm still not overly keen on the Leviathan body shape but that LNG (or Nuclear Green as LGM call it) is an awesome colour 

I think that colour looks better with the dark fretboard too although i know a lot of people like the maple with LNG.

NICE


----------



## JPMDan (Jul 11, 2006)

Any updates Chris9?


----------



## darren (Jul 11, 2006)

I really hope you get your guitar soon. Yours is further along than mine. It looks to me like all there is left to do is final assembly, wiring and setup. Not trivial tasks, but probably a solid day of work.

The last i saw of mine, it hadn't been finished or fretted.


----------



## JPMDan (Jul 11, 2006)

Hey darren what color is yours going to be?


----------



## darren (Jul 13, 2006)

All the details are here.


----------



## JPMDan (Jul 13, 2006)

oh dear jesus god it's gorgeous


----------



## darren (Jul 13, 2006)

Yeah, i know.


----------



## Jesse (Jul 13, 2006)

Ill eventually get an Leviathan 8 string... Ill wait for things to die down for Jeremy a bit though.


----------



## Scott (Jul 13, 2006)

If he will even take orders in the future. The way it seems now, is that he will only build them on spare time, and then sell them. Not actually take custom orders.

I may be wrong however.


----------



## goth_fiend (Jul 13, 2006)

^last I heard he stopped taking orders because he is so backlogged, that and he was moving his shop.


----------



## Scott (Jul 13, 2006)

Right, but then he was saying how the car paint shop is his main source of income, and the guitar biz isn't pulling it's weight in comparison. So he is thinking of licensing the leviathan guitars out to another builder, or just build them on his free time and sell them as is.


----------



## chris9 (Jul 24, 2006)

Well still no joy he said it would be done very soon that was when i started this thread thats about 3 weeks ago.
still no word i suppose it will turn up one day its getting for 2 years now and like darren said it just need building up now so i don,t know what the hold up is i,m sure he has his reasons. He has had a lot of bad luck with making the guitars though!!!!!!.


----------



## zimbloth (Jul 30, 2006)

Man I really feel for you Chris. If that happened to me I'd be so depressed. I'm thankful my KXK only took a few months, and my Bernie Rico 7 being made no supposedly will only take 2-3 months. -crosses fingers-

Hopefully yours comes soon and you're happy with it


----------



## Project2501 (Jul 30, 2006)

I was wanting one of these for awhile, but after hearing more and more stuff like this I don't think I would ever trust the builder. Anything over a year is just ridiculous. He should refund some of your money to cover him being so late with his work. If he did that at a "real" job he would be fired. I would say he has pretty much destroyed his reputation. Sad too, because his work looks really nice.


----------



## Ancestor (Jul 30, 2006)

Ah, god damn, dude. I hate to say it, but you should just get you money back. Fuck that shit. 2 years?   

I'll never trust that builder now.


----------



## Scott (Jul 30, 2006)

Get your money back?!

Hah, after two years of waiting, and all that's left is assembly, you'd be a moron to cancel your order now


----------



## darren (Jul 30, 2006)

If my guitar were at the stage where chris9's was the last time we saw pics of it, i'd just tell Jeremy to ship me the box of parts and i'll finish it myself.

Jeremy has had a bit of bad luck (his shop got flooded out and had no power several times last summer) but he's also had really poor time management skills, allowing delays to stack up. 

I had initially been pushing for him to have my guitar done in time for him to take it to NAMM in _January 2005_. Then i was hoping for him to have it done so i could maybe make a trip to Jemfest in June of last year. No go. Then he told me he was moving and was trying to clear his backlog before the end of December, so he wouldn't have to move unfinished guitars. That didn't happen. His last "i'll do my best to have it done" date was the end of May. Still no guitar. And not even "i made some progress, but it's not quite finished yet"... he hadn't touched it. I emailed him about three weeks ago and haven't even had a reply.

Hell, i even had another one of his customers _phone *me*_ last week because he couldn't get hold of Jeremy. (I still have a link to my site on LGMguitars.com)

Even if Jeremy got his shit together and re-focused on building guitars (which i don't think will happen), i think he's screwed his reputation completely.


----------



## Chris (Jul 30, 2006)

chris9 said:


> Well still no joy he said it would be done very soon that was when i started this thread thats about 3 weeks ago.
> still no word i suppose it will turn up one day its getting for 2 years now and like darren said it just need building up now so i don,t know what the hold up is i,m sure he has his reasons. He has had a lot of bad luck with making the guitars though!!!!!!.



I know people like Jeremy and that he's got the reputation of a good guy, but that's just rediculous. Your guitar should be free.


----------



## Papa Shank (Jul 30, 2006)

Yeah seriously 2 years is around twice over the initial estimate right? I'd want my money back and the guitar _as is_ for wasting my time and then I'd go give Dan an email and get a real guitar built within a reasonable time frame


----------



## Elysian (Jul 30, 2006)

darren said:


> If my guitar were at the stage where chris9's was the last time we saw pics of it, i'd just tell Jeremy to ship me the box of parts and i'll finish it myself.
> Jeremy has had a bit of bad luck (his shop got flooded out and had no power several times last summer) but he's also had really poor time management skills, allowing delays to stack up.
> I had initially been pushing for him to have my guitar done in time for him to take it to NAMM in _January 2005_. Then i was hoping for him to have it done so i could maybe make a trip to Jemfest in June of last year. No go. Then he told me he was moving and was trying to clear his backlog before the end of December, so he wouldn't have to move unfinished guitars. That didn't happen. His last "i'll do my best to have it done" date was the end of May. Still no guitar. And not even "i made some progress, but it's not quite finished yet"... he hadn't touched it. I emailed him about three weeks ago and haven't even had a reply.
> Hell, i even had another one of his customers _phone *me*_ last week because he couldn't get hold of Jeremy. (I still have a link to my site on LGMguitars.com)
> Even if Jeremy got his shit together and re-focused on building guitars (which i don't think will happen), i think he's screwed his reputation completely.


tell him to send me the parts, i'll finish the guitar for you


----------



## bostjan (Jul 30, 2006)

The Quote Spelling Nazi Unquote said:


> rediculous



ridiculous like ridicule or rideré.

*ahem*

I sure hope Chris9 gets his guitar pronto. Hell, I'll finish it if Jeremy doesn't.


----------



## Metal Ken (Jul 31, 2006)

Better be unqestionably the best god damn guitar you've ever friggin played for that kind of wait.


----------



## darren (Jul 31, 2006)

I don't mean to hijack this thread any further, but i thought i'd share the news:

It's official. My Leviiathan will not be built. At least, not for me.







Jeremy knows he has fucked up and pissed off a lot of people with the delays. He knows he should have cleared his backlog before he moved. Now he's too busy with paint work to get the guitars done in a timely manner, so he's cutting his losses at this point and trying to help everyone move on. 

Depending on the state of completion (or lack thereof), he will be offering people a relatively solid delivery date (mine was November/December) or a full refund of the customer's deposit.

I've cashed out.

If and when Jeremy gets around to finishing it, i'll have first right of refusal, but as of now, it's history.


----------



## Scott (Jul 31, 2006)

When did you talk to him? Last i talked to him he was in the process of getting the money for the refunds. So does he have it now do you know?

And I HIGHLY doubt he even started mine, so i'll be getting a refund aswell. Now i'm glad I got a burst over a quilted top. Means, i'll be getting like 1300 CAD I think. 

Edit: Closer to 1200 now. Damn exchange rate.


----------



## darren (Aug 1, 2006)

I chatted with him just hours ago. He said it'll be a few weeks before he has all the money together for the refunds.


----------



## bostjan (Aug 1, 2006)

'Tis a shame, these would have been beautiful and unique instruments.


----------



## chris9 (Aug 9, 2006)

well i just had a email from lgm and he said my guitar "will" be finished for the end of august so hopefully not long to wait now !!!!!!
well hopefully everything crossed !!!!!!!!


----------



## metalfiend666 (Aug 9, 2006)

I hope he meets his deadline this time.


----------



## W4D (Aug 9, 2006)

Well can not wait to see the guitar you get from him. Let me know how it turns out.


----------



## Drew (Aug 9, 2006)

:/ Sorry to hear that, Darren. At least he's finally beginning to own up and try to make things right as much as he still can here, though.


----------



## rogue (Aug 9, 2006)

i dont think iv ever actually seen a real one, only those cool computer graphic ones. how many has he actually completed over the years, has anyone actualyl got one, and are they worth the wait?


----------



## Scott (Aug 9, 2006)

A few people have received theirs. There are a few threads over at jemsite with people receiving them.


----------



## Allen Garrow (Aug 9, 2006)

"off to the jemsite to poke around",,, gotta remember not to say ( spell ) Fuk or Glenn will toss my ass....lol.

~A


----------



## darren (Aug 10, 2006)

I noticed there are also quite a few people selling their LGM customs, too. There seems to be at least two or three customized RGs/JEMs for sale on Jemsite in the last month or so.


----------



## that guy (Aug 12, 2006)

so have you gottenit yet?


----------



## Scott (Aug 13, 2006)

End of august he said.

On a related note, I got my refund a couple days ago.


----------



## that guy (Aug 13, 2006)

awsome for you hombre... buy the white schecter on ebay for me


----------



## Scott (Aug 14, 2006)

Say please.


----------



## darren (Aug 15, 2006)

My payment arrived from LGM yesterday.

On the one hand, i'm sad that i didn't get the guitar i wanted, but on the other hand, i've finally been compensated for designing, building and maintaining LGM's site, so i have no further reason to complain. 

Jeremy's a stand-up guy, and he always makes things right.


----------



## VforVendetta00 (Aug 15, 2006)

shame that he couldn't keep building them. i wonder if he'll sell the parts, i wouldn't mind takin a crack at building an 8 specially since the parts are high quality already.


----------



## Scott (Aug 15, 2006)

darren said:


> My payment arrived from LGM yesterday.
> 
> On the one hand, i'm sad that i didn't get the guitar i wanted, but on the other hand, i've finally been compensated for designing, building and maintaining LGM's site, so i have no further reason to complain.
> 
> Jeremy's a stand-up guy, and he always makes things right.



^Indeed he does


----------



## darren (Aug 15, 2006)

VforVendetta00 said:


> shame that he couldn't keep building them. i wonder if he'll sell the parts, i wouldn't mind takin a crack at building an 8 specially since the parts are high quality already.


Any parts that he has are probably already spoken for, with the exception of guitars that had already been started when the customer opted for a refund. There are probably only a couple of these (like my 7). 

He only builds to order, so he doesn't have an inventory of necks, bodies and hardware sitting around.


----------



## that guy (Aug 16, 2006)

darren said:


> Any parts that he has are probably already spoken for, with the exception of guitars that had already been started when the customer opted for a refund. There are probably only a couple of these (like my 7).
> 
> He only builds to order, so he doesn't have an inventory of necks, bodies and hardware sitting around.


yeah cuz if he had it like that there wouldnt be the trouble hes haveing


----------



## darren (Aug 16, 2006)

This is why he was investigating having necks and bodies done through an outside CNC shop. My neck was to be the prototype that was going to be digitized for all future necks. But given how his business has shifted toward the paint side of things, i imagine he won't be investing in the digitizing and tooling to go that route.


----------



## Jeff (Aug 16, 2006)

darren said:


> This is why he was investigating having necks and bodies done through an outside CNC shop. My neck was to be the prototype that was going to be digitized for all future necks. But given how his business has shifted toward the paint side of things, i imagine he won't be investing in the digitizing and tooling to go that route.



He should just pull a Rondo and have a Korean factory make them for way less. That'd be friggin' sweet! I'd be happy with an Agile quality extended scale 7 string or 8 string!


----------



## W4D (Sep 7, 2006)

I have spoken with him a couple times about building his guitars for him he said he is sending one so that I can match it to his. I wanna help him keep it going is a killer guitar and would love to see it stay alive.


----------



## chris9 (Sep 8, 2006)

i wish he would send me mine!!!! it shouldn,t be too much longer now !!!!!!


----------



## JPMDan (Sep 8, 2006)

W4D said:


> I have spoken with him a couple times about building his guitars for him he said he is sending one so that I can match it to his. I wanna help him keep it going is a killer guitar and would love to see it stay alive.


 
definitely keep me updated on this


----------



## shredfreak (Sep 8, 2006)

Pfff, always wanted an LGM 7 string but it seems pretty farked hearing all this. Hope the dude can get something worked out in the end though the last posts give a pretty good hint. Hire someone for the guitar or CNC the basic shapes of the necks and bodies. The CNC option can't be that much right? ALL his necks and bodies get done at shop X and they got an exclusive contract with him (or however you say it in english ). Though i must say i had a guitar scalloped once CNC wise and it was a nightmare, although the store i went to do to that job sucks plain ass.

Keeping my fingers crossed for the outcome of this. Hope he makes it somehow cuz i want a leviathan specifically.


----------



## b3n (Sep 8, 2006)

W4D said:


> I have spoken with him a couple times about building his guitars for him he said he is sending one so that I can match it to his. I wanna help him keep it going is a killer guitar and would love to see it stay alive.



That'd be cool. As I said earlier in this thread, the one thing that stopped me going for a Leviiathan was the stories of endless waiting, guitars not being delivered etc


----------



## BRUTALIZER GUITARS (Sep 16, 2006)

> CNC the basic shapes of the necks and bodies. The CNC option can't be that much right?



Well when I was out there helping him out he was thinking about doing that but he wanted to build his own copyer but time was against him, I had no Idea things where like this for him now I mean I know things where stressed when I was there but I hope It all works out in the End


----------



## zimbloth (Sep 17, 2006)

People who put down big money on stuff like this sort of get what they deserve. I know I sound like huge asshole, but I'm just trying to make a point. This kind of thing is very common, and sort of speaks to the tragedy the small business has become in this country in recent years. I've heard horror story after horror story from LGM customers, Christopher Woods, etc. 

I'm sure Jeremy is a fine luthier, but people really shouldn't be putting down ~$2000 on a guitar from a company thats so unreliable. Just save up and buy a Jackson, ESP, Rico Jr, BC Rich, Carvin, Brian Moore, whatever... and this kind of thing will never happen to you. Maybe I'm still bitter because I spent a lot of money on a custom guitar from one of these small builders and it was a huge let-down, played like pure shit. I learned my lesson.


----------



## Samer (Sep 17, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> People who put down big money on stuff like this sort of get what they deserve. I know I sound like huge asshole, but I'm just trying to make a point. This kind of thing is very common, and sort of speaks to the tragedy the small business has become in this country in recent years. I've heard horror story after horror story from LGM customers, Christopher Woods, etc.
> 
> I'm sure Jeremy is a fine luthier, but people really shouldn't be putting down ~$2000 on a guitar from a company thats so unreliable. Just save up and buy a Jackson, ESP, Rico Jr, BC Rich, Carvin, Brian Moore, whatever... and this kind of thing will never happen to you. Maybe I'm still bitter because I spent a lot of money on a custom guitar from one of these small builders and it was a huge let-down, played like pure shit. I learned my lesson.



what builder, and what happened?


----------



## Elysian (Sep 17, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> People who put down big money on stuff like this sort of get what they deserve. I know I sound like huge asshole, but I'm just trying to make a point. This kind of thing is very common, and sort of speaks to the tragedy the small business has become in this country in recent years. I've heard horror story after horror story from LGM customers, Christopher Woods, etc.
> 
> I'm sure Jeremy is a fine luthier, but people really shouldn't be putting down ~$2000 on a guitar from a company thats so unreliable. Just save up and buy a Jackson, ESP, Rico Jr, BC Rich, Carvin, Brian Moore, whatever... and this kind of thing will never happen to you. Maybe I'm still bitter because I spent a lot of money on a custom guitar from one of these small builders and it was a huge let-down, played like pure shit. I learned my lesson.


bernie rico jr isn't exactly a "large" builder you know...


----------



## Scott (Sep 17, 2006)

zimbloth said:


> People who put down big money on stuff like this sort of get what they deserve. I know I sound like huge asshole, but I'm just trying to make a point. This kind of thing is very common, and sort of speaks to the tragedy the small business has become in this country in recent years. I've heard horror story after horror story from LGM customers, Christopher Woods, etc.
> 
> I'm sure Jeremy is a fine luthier, but people really shouldn't be putting down ~$2000 on a guitar from a company thats so unreliable. Just save up and buy a Jackson, ESP, Rico Jr, BC Rich, Carvin, Brian Moore, whatever... and this kind of thing will never happen to you. Maybe I'm still bitter because I spent a lot of money on a custom guitar from one of these small builders and it was a huge let-down, played like pure shit. I learned my lesson.



The thing is (With LGM atleast) they were very reliable before the leviathan series. People were getting customised jems, rg's, custom paint jobs done, with little to no complaint at all.

It's just when he introduced the leviathan series and started taking orders, he decided to make changes in his personal life, and that's when everything fell to shit.

I agree that it was a totally bad call to make those changes in his life (Moving, building a new shop) before completing the current batch of guitars (including mine) but no one, including me, put down money on an unreliable company. It's just that afterwards he became unreliable.


----------

