# Biggest gear ownership disappointment



## BurningRome (Mar 27, 2021)

What was your biggest gear ownership disappointment? 

For me it was a trade with Daniel Laskiewicz of the Acacia Strain for his Randall Satan for my Fryette Deliverance 120's.

That Randall Satan was the worst "expensive" amp I'd ever owned, by far. The level of twang that was underlying through the gain channel was terrible. I was running it through a Fryette 2x12 and a guitar with Dimarzio Super Distortions and was tuned to an dropped open C tuning. I had tried various guitars through this too along with other cabinets.

Note: We both did the trade without being able to test each others amps due to not being local to each other. We both went in blind to what we would be getting.


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## Werecow (Mar 27, 2021)

A Gibson Les Paul Studio. It had the most horrible flubby palm mutes that you just couldn't tighten no matter where or how hard you muted. I know it was probably a duff one, but i've never been remotely tempted to get one since.
It was doubly disappointing because i wanted one so badly beforehand that i saved up with a summer job, and lived on instant noodles solely to get it haha.


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## BornToLooze (Mar 27, 2021)

A Dual Rec.

Everybody that has one loves them because how brutal they are, they sound brutal recorded, I mean


but apparently Mesas take some tweaking and I'm in that small handful of metal dudes that likes the Orange way of doing stuff. Gain Volume Tone, turn the gain and volume all the way up tone that way to sound like Dime, tone this way to sound like Tom Petty.


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## Emperoff (Mar 27, 2021)

A Soldano GTO tube preamp clone I got from a company named XtoneBox. The thing was beautifully built, point-to-point soldering, top quality components, etc. But the tone just didn't cut it for me. It was too dark and flubby sounding.

It only had a single tone control for controlling the EQ and the clean tone had no tone-shaping at all. It could have probanly worked better as a regular pedal instead of the full preamp it claimed to be, but the bypass switch muted the signal, so...


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## Bodes (Mar 27, 2021)

Definitely my hands.... no matter what I try, I just can't get them to play well.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 27, 2021)

Neural DSP stuff....those plugins literally made me angry.


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## eclecto-acoustic (Mar 27, 2021)

Maybe a little off-piste, but...my laptop. I got it to start using it as a live rig, and while its performance is more than up to the job, I'm not optimistic about its overall longevity. I'm a little over a year into owning it, and I've got at least one bad fan bearing, a non-charging battery scare that I THINK I fixed but that appeared for no obvious reason, and some flimsy plastic supporting the ethernet port retaining clip that broke inside of a few weeks (haven't even used the port...).

I'm definitely going to be building a rack mount desktop rig, I just wish I had done that the first time. More bulk, but more power and longevity for basically the same money.


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## laxu (Mar 27, 2021)

BOSS GT-6. I had a Yamaha DG80 at the time that sounded just miles and miles better for literally everything.


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## narad (Mar 27, 2021)

Probably my H&K Warp-T. I sort of had this very passionate 2 weeks where I was trying to source one, and all the clips were low quality sounding like there was a great amp there tucked away behind shitty phone camera mics. And of course, German made, no reason to really think poorly of it. I was offering some Aussie guy like $1100 to ship it (or a Warp X, same thing) to me in Japan, before buying one here for like $400. But just uninspiring to have. I actually recorded some really crushing sounds with it before packing it up for the next owner, but I just had 0 desire to interact with it.


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## migstopheles (Mar 27, 2021)

Every pedal I have tried from Old Blood Noise Endeavours has sounded like shit. They all seem to have this thing in common of sucking all the low end out of your tone, even the fuzz sounds thin and raspy


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## Jammer (Mar 27, 2021)

Not too many bad purchases over the years but the POD Pro and HD500 were complete garbage. I’ll never touch a piece of Line 6 gear again.


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## budda (Mar 27, 2021)

Mesa roadster. It came with prestige and options, but I should have bought a 5150.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 27, 2021)

VHT Pittbull UL w/out geq. I spent the better part of a year looking for a UL but the one I got wasn't my thing at all, so I sold it. It was just too stiff feeling, too dry, too boomy on the low end. I love my UL module and CL100 head . They feel way more saturated (but can still feel a bit stiff and dry) and are more in line with how a lot of people described their ULs.

Randall V2 Archetype. I couldn't find one for a decent price in the states, so I imported one from guitarguitar. Clean channel was decent, nothing special. Solid state channel was fine, tube channel was cool, kind of a recto/5150 vibe but much tighter. I liked the amp til I recorded it and noticed a weird sub bass/low mid thing it had no matter how you dialed it in. I ended up selling it since it didn't stand out amongst my other amps soundwise.


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## akinari (Mar 27, 2021)

Midnight Amplification Giant Sound. Sunn Model T preamp, my ass. It did virtually _nothing. _Added the tiniest bit of gain and max volume was unity gain. Traded it for a Tronographic Boxidizer and was much, much happier.


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## Kyle Jordan (Mar 27, 2021)

POD XT Pro.

I mentioned in my Axe III thread that the desire for an all in one box has been with me for 18 years. It started with the XT, so I bought an XT Pro in early 2004. I ended up disliking it so much that it not only turned me off digital gear in general for almost a decade, but it turned me off of playing in general for a time.

Distant second place would be the Mesa V-Twin pedal. The silver lining here is that in order to make the V-Twin sound better, I entered the world of EQ before and after the preamp. This was in ‘99 and since then have never been without an EQ before the amp or device/amp sim and usually a second EQ in the loop of after the sim but before the speakers/IR. Magnificent and powerful tools. And the best way I have ever snatched victory from the jaws of defeat guitar gear wise.


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## Spinedriver (Mar 27, 2021)

Way back when I first started playing (and had NO idea about amps) my mom got me a new amp for Christmas and it was a VERY used Univox 720 K keyboard combo amp with a 15" speaker. Thing didn't work right from the day I first used it. Even took it in to a shop to get it fixed and when I got it back, it worked for a little bit but soon after just kept making horrible buzzing sounds whenever I used it (I was running a Boss HM-2 into it at the time). I feel bad because I had a small Peavey 15 watt combo and wanted to jam with some friends but we got totally ripped off buying that 720K.

That and years later I bought a used Vantage 'superstrat' style guitar that had a Floyd Rose style trem on it and after using it for less than an hour, one of the strings broke and the whole thing went out of tune. Took it back the next day.


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## broangiel (Mar 27, 2021)

budda said:


> Mesa roadster. It came with prestige and options, but I should have bought a 5150.


Exactly me. I held onto the Roadster for sentimental reasons, where I should have flipped it to continue exploring the amp world. I didn't realize how bad of a fit it was for me until I got an Axe-Fx and really started to explore different amp tones. I found out I'm more of a hot-rodded Marshall/5150 guy than a Recto guy. A Mark would've been a better fit for me too.


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## Randy (Mar 27, 2021)

JCM 800 2203

They're kind of the core of all those 80s/90s metal amps but raw, it isn't particularly gainy at all. I mean, everyone knows you need to crank a Marshall to get "the sound" but I turned this up ludicrous volumes to get "huh, that's pretty good Alice Cooper tone" but that's kinda it. There's a multitude of amps that break up way sooner that still sounds just as good IMO. Also realized I'm not a big fan of 6550s


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## Spinedriver (Mar 27, 2021)

Randy said:


> JCM 800 2203
> 
> They're kind of the core of all those 80s/90s metal amps but raw, it isn't particularly gainy at all. I mean, everyone knows you need to crank a Marshall to get "the sound" but I turned this up ludicrous volumes to get "huh, that's pretty good Alice Cooper tone" but that's kinda it. There's a multitude of amps that break up way sooner that still sounds just as good IMO. Also realized I'm not a big fan of 6550s



I had a Marshall Lead 100 (Mosfet) head and although people swear up and down that it sounds 'exactly' like a JCM800, I was kinda disappoined by it. Granted, I never thought to run an OD pedal in front of it but the Valvestate 8100 that I traded it in for sounded a LOT better.


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## USMarine75 (Mar 27, 2021)

It must be the most disappointing because it comes to mind immediately...

The Keeley Monterrey. Its everything I should love all in one box. I think the univibe part was okay on it's own. But I literally struggled to get any good tones. I had saved and waited and I was sooo disappointed.



Randy said:


> JCM 800 2203
> 
> They're kind of the core of all those 80s/90s metal amps but raw, it isn't particularly gainy at all. I mean, everyone knows you need to crank a Marshall to get "the sound" but I turned this up ludicrous volumes to get "huh, that's pretty good Alice Cooper tone" but that's kinda it. There's a multitude of amps that break up way sooner that still sounds just as good IMO. Also realized I'm not a big fan of 6550s



At first glance thought that said "6505". Whew. Thought you might be having a stroke. Everyone knows...

F - facial droop
A - arm weakness
S - speech difficulties
T - thinks a 5150/6505 isn't the best amp ever


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## Thrashman (Mar 27, 2021)

Any of the Blackmachines that have passed my hands

.strandberg* guitars - all of mine had dead spots and other fundamental design flaws

Most PRS guitars (excluding private stock which I haven't tried) - sound/feel too flat and dull for me


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 27, 2021)

Anything Caparison and Strandberg.


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## USMarine75 (Mar 27, 2021)

Dammit didnt realize Strandbergs had so many issues and meh reviews. I was looking at a tele version as a nice versatile headless I could travel overseas with.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 27, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> Dammit didnt realize Strandbergs had so many issues and meh reviews. I was looking at a tele version as a nice versatile headless I could travel overseas with.


They are very meh. I've had 3 MIK versions/one USA pass through my hands and my kiesels/aristides kicked the shit out of all of them quality wise. I've tried some of the newer indo ones too and they're not much better imo.


I'll also throw the newer epiphone prophecy line under the bus. I bought an explorer sight unseen (first mistake with anything epi uggghh), and returned it almost immediately. Godawful binding job, paint splashed all over it, tool marks on the fretboard, clear had some cloudy spots, abysmal factory setup. Damn shame too, because I really liked the purple color with the white binding.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 27, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> Dammit didnt realize Strandbergs had so many issues and meh reviews. I was looking at a tele version as a nice versatile headless I could travel overseas with.



If you want to put in a good amount of work when you feel like you shouldn't have to and still have something mediocre, go for it. 

It's a shame, the Salen and new semi-hollow version look cool. 

But yeah, steer clear if you want something decent out of the box. This isn't like the Reverends or G&L Tributes or Epiphones, you know, solid import stuff.


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## DeathByButterslax (Mar 27, 2021)

1. ENGL Invader 150, no matter what I did with it to dial it in it just felt awful. Like a rubber mallet.

2. Bogner Uberschall Twin Jet, sounded cool for 7 string but that was honestly it. Also the EQ was too strange for me.


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## Metropolis (Mar 27, 2021)

Jammer said:


> Not too many bad purchases over the years but the POD Pro and HD500 were complete garbage. I’ll never touch a piece of Line 6 gear again.



Definetly, but Helix sounds and feels much better, it's totally different platform. I had Pod HD Bean and owned HD500X twice.


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## Thrashman (Mar 27, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> Dammit didnt realize Strandbergs had so many issues and meh reviews. I was looking at a tele version as a nice versatile headless I could travel overseas with.



Yeah, I had long conversations with Ola in regards to there being a fundamental flaw in his design that relates to mass (I believe) and this means that literally *ALL *MiK strandbergs I've tried (As well as some Indo's and the 3 MIJ/CS ones) are suffering from dead spots. Korean ones mainly around the Eb-F# area for anyone curious. I could enter a guitarstore and show you where they are within 5 minutes.

Needless to say, he denied it and tried to blame it on my OCD or whatever and I promptly sold whatever 'bergs I had and went with Aristides. No regrets. (Sorry if this seems like a shameless plug or dig, I'm just honest)


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## laxu (Mar 27, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> Dammit didnt realize Strandbergs had so many issues and meh reviews. I was looking at a tele version as a nice versatile headless I could travel overseas with.



I had a complete lemon of a Strandberg Boden OS 8 LE. Like it was offensive that it was even shipped to me bad. In their defense they would have replaced it and return to Sweden was easy. I have played some Japanese Strandbergs that were very nice and well made but fundamentally I don't like the design. The bolt on heel sticks too far up the neck and the bridge action adjustment is imprecise and cumbersome. Endurneck does absolutely nothing for me.

I think they are just plain overpriced when a 2400 euro limited edition guitar comes with the worst quilt top I have ever seen (on top of all the functional issues it had like terrible fretwork) and a freakin' gigbag and not even a good one. By comparison my Kiesel in the same price range (incl. shipping and taxes) is a better guitar and the Kiesel soft case is the best case I have ever had, perfect halfway thing between a gigbag and a more rigid hard case.

As far as headless guitars go, my Skervesen Shoggie (which granted is more expensive but I got to pick all the specs and finish) is everything the Strandberg wasn't. In fact it's sitting in my lap as I type this post.


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## maliciousteve (Mar 27, 2021)

Engl Powerball. Couldn't gel with that amp when I had it. But the other guitarist in my last band had one, it sounded fantastic so I'd probably love one now.

Line 6 Helix LT. Thought it would solve all my problems. It nearly did it, but I just couldn't get the right lead tone. Something fundamental about it just made me miss a real amp. So I sold it after 3 months and bought a Mesa Mark Iv.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 27, 2021)

2001 Triple Recto. That's the amp that made me realize why people hated Rectos.


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## spudmunkey (Mar 27, 2021)

The concept of the large pedalboard. I had been using an RP and/or a couple individual pedals for decades. One day I decided to build out a "proper" pedalboard. Bought the 2nd largest Pedaltrain board, and I think 13 pedals, two Voodoo Labs power supplies within 6 mo, all nicely cable managed. Literally the day after adding the "last" pedal, I bought a Helix, and a week later, started to part-out my pedalboard on craigslist and ebay.


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## Edika (Mar 27, 2021)

I think my worst experience in terms of guitars was the Emperion V 7 string. It's the first time I didn't even have a honey moon period. I took it out, saw all the flaws, plugged it in waiting for BK Warpigs to flatten me at least and heard the weakest sound out of the red channel modern mode of a Triple Rectifier you could think (turns out they shipped it with whatever crap came from the Chinese factory instead of installing he Warpigs). Immediately packed it up and contacted them and was one of the few lucky ones that got a refund.

In terms of amps the Blackstar S1-200 was one of the amps that just didn't do it for me at all. First impressions were positive, the clean channel was great, the crunch and rock sounds were awesome and if you wanted a relatively heavy sound without too much palm muting it was OK. But metal and modern metal it was difficult to do. The bass response was just strange and the two OD channels with the gain past 4 it was just mushy. I tried the power amp with a couple of pedals and it slayed. Too bad the pre amp was not geared for metal.


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## USMarine75 (Mar 27, 2021)

Thrashman said:


> Any of the Blackmachines that have passed my hands
> 
> .strandberg* guitars - all of mine had dead spots and other fundamental design flaws
> 
> Most PRS guitars (excluding private stock which I haven't tried) - sound/feel too flat and dull for me





MaxOfMetal said:


> Anything Caparison and Strandberg.





KnightBrolaire said:


> They are very meh. I've had 3 MIK versions/one USA pass through my hands and my kiesels/aristides kicked the shit out of all of them quality wise. I've tried some of the newer indo ones too and they're not much better imo.
> 
> 
> I'll also throw the newer epiphone prophecy line under the bus. I bought an explorer sight unseen (first mistake with anything epi uggghh), and returned it almost immediately. Godawful binding job, paint splashed all over it, tool marks on the fretboard, clear had some cloudy spots, abysmal factory setup. Damn shame too, because I really liked the purple color with the white binding.





MaxOfMetal said:


> If you want to put in a good amount of work when you feel like you shouldn't have to and still have something mediocre, go for it.
> 
> It's a shame, the Salen and new semi-hollow version look cool.
> 
> But yeah, steer clear if you want something decent out of the box. This isn't like the Reverends or G&L Tributes or Epiphones, you know, solid import stuff.





Thrashman said:


> Yeah, I had long conversations with Ola in regards to there being a fundamental flaw in his design that relates to mass (I believe) and this means that literally *ALL *MiK strandbergs I've tried (As well as some Indo's and the 3 MIJ/CS ones) are suffering from dead spots. Korean ones mainly around the Eb-F# area for anyone curious. I could enter a guitarstore and show you where they are within 5 minutes.
> 
> Needless to say, he denied it and tried to blame it on my OCD or whatever and I promptly sold whatever 'bergs I had and went with Aristides. No regrets. (Sorry if this seems like a shameless plug or dig, I'm just honest)





laxu said:


> I had a complete lemon of a Strandberg Boden OS 8 LE. Like it was offensive that it was even shipped to me bad. In their defense they would have replaced it and return to Sweden was easy. I have played some Japanese Strandbergs that were very nice and well made but fundamentally I don't like the design. The bolt on heel sticks too far up the neck and the bridge action adjustment is imprecise and cumbersome. Endurneck does absolutely nothing for me.
> 
> I think they are just plain overpriced when a 2400 euro limited edition guitar comes with the worst quilt top I have ever seen (on top of all the functional issues it had like terrible fretwork) and a freakin' gigbag and not even a good one. By comparison my Kiesel in the same price range (incl. shipping and taxes) is a better guitar and the Kiesel soft case is the best case I have ever had, perfect halfway thing between a gigbag and a more rigid hard case.
> 
> As far as headless guitars go, my Skervesen Shoggie (which granted is more expensive but I got to pick all the specs and finish) is everything the Strandberg wasn't. In fact it's sitting in my lap as I type this post.



If any of you come through southern VA I owe you a beer or three. Salen GAS is permanently cured lol.

(@surge you may want to look through this)


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## oneblackened (Mar 27, 2021)

Definitely the Mesa Mark IV I owned for about a month. That amp did absolutely nothing for me, and it was like trying to dial in a fighter jet. 

I might be the odd one out here, but I find Rectos to be very easy to dial. The big thing to realize is the presence control in modern mode interacts with the tonestack that most presence controls don't.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 27, 2021)

oneblackened said:


> Definitely the Mesa Mark IV I owned for about a month. That amp did absolutely nothing for me, and it was like trying to dial in a fighter jet.
> 
> I might be the odd one out here, but I find Rectos to be very easy to dial. The big thing to realize is the presence control in modern mode interacts with the tonestack that most presence controls don't.



Definitely the opposite for me. Got a good tone out of the Mark IV easily because I read the essentials (Treble knob high, bass knob low, scoop the 750hz).


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## oneblackened (Mar 27, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Definitely the opposite for me. Got a good tone out of the Mark IV easily because I read the essentials (Treble knob high, bass knob low, scoop the 750hz).


Yeah, and that managed to get me all of two usable tones.


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## gabito (Mar 27, 2021)

Had a Gibson for a few years. Nice guitar, sounded good, played well, probably the most expensive guitar I ever bought... never clicked with me. I don't know why.

I ended up playing whatever other cheap guitars I had until I traded it for a seven string LTD and some money.

Couldn't be happier.


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## TedEH (Mar 27, 2021)

oneblackened said:


> Yeah, and that managed to get me all of two usable tones.


For all the praise the Marks get for "versatility", I find that word usually ends up meaning "a usable range of gain" rather than multiple characters of gain. It does two things: clean, and Mark-sounding gain. If you like those things, you'll like the amp. If you like Marshalls and 5150s, it doesn't do that.

Two disappointments come to mind: 

One is the Mesa 2:90. I picked it up to try two things: To try to make my Mark V:25 sound like it's bigger brothers, and to try it out with a bass rig to see if it would be enough power to get some tube-y-ness into my bass sound. It failed at both of those things. The 25 got louder, but not better. For the bass rig, I actually liked it at reasonable volumes, but it couldn't keep up with a drummer without distorting in a way I didn't like.

The second thing I've always found disappointing is trying to play _anything_ that get piped back through monitors or headphones. I think it's a large part of why I can't gel with modellers - no cab and no power means no mojo. I've yet to try anything digital that does it for me, but I've admittedly not tried much yet.


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## BMFan30 (Mar 27, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Neural DSP stuff....those plugins literally made me angry.


Why so?


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 27, 2021)

BMFan30 said:


> Why so?




Nothing justifies the price and the hassle of downloading it. After all the downloading installing nonsense, none of those sims did a goddamn thing to deserve 20 bucks, let alone 100+

All of my free sims beat Neural shit all day long. Easier to download and install..and they're free. Can't beat that.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Mar 27, 2021)

budda said:


> Mesa roadster. It came with prestige and options, but I should have bought a 5150.


Wait wut? I remember you being all about the Roadster


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## BMFan30 (Mar 27, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Nothing justifies the price and the hassle of downloading it. After all the downloading installing nonsense, none of those sims did a goddamn thing to deserve 20 bucks, let alone 100+
> 
> All of my free sims beat Neural shit all day long. Easier to download and install..and they're free. Can't beat that.


Very fair point, I was just wondering because most people are divided on them where they either hate it or love it. But they are over-hyped & overpriced in my own opinion.

There are a few I really liked though & I like their UI layout for being the same across all plugins. Most of the tone is the IR cab anyways & I never reach for the cabs that come with Neural, so there's that too.


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## diagrammatiks (Mar 27, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> If any of you come through southern VA I owe you a beer or three. Salen GAS is permanently cured lol.
> 
> (@surge you may want to look through this)



my salen is ok. cry.


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## youngthrasher9 (Mar 28, 2021)

I’d have to say the biggest disappointment was probably the Randall RD45H I had for a while. It desperately needed depth and presence knobs, and it lacked saturation for most things. It felt kind of dull ala blackstar and was generally uninspiring to play through. The boost function felt more like an added gain stage. It also had an odd tube rattle that wouldn’t go away. 

I couldn’t get rid of it to be replaced by a trifecta of peaveys fast enough. (Not a cost equivalent- just chronological occurrence)


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## Protestheriphery (Mar 28, 2021)

First thing that comes to mind is the Friedman BE-100. I mean, it's a-ite for what it does. Pretty solid in the modified Marshall game, and a nice amp in general. But the hype surrounding it, as well as the price tag are a bit misleading.

Both the Mesa recto's I fucct with, (pre-multiwatt triple, 25w mini) were confusing and underwhelming. I still rock the 212 horizontal cab, and mess with the digital plug in versions though. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done experimenting with actual Mesa amps.

Had a POD500HD for a minute. Wanted to dip my toes in the modeling game. Once again, got caught up in the hype-train, only to be let down. Decided at that point to stick with real amps and pedals.

Bought a new Gibson Les Paul Custom Silverburst back in the day. That jammer was objectively bad, as they tend to be. I won't open up a can of worms by going on a Gibson-bashing rant, though. Over time Ive become heavily attached to it. It's my favorite _sounding_ guitar.


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## Necky379 (Mar 28, 2021)

Ibanez UV777P-BK I’ve said it before, sold my maple SC607 to get it, the UV sounded weak in comparison no matter what I did. It played well but I hyped it up so much in my head it ended up disappointing me playability wise too. It almost ruined Ibanez’s for me all together until I played/owned some amazing RG’s. My current Ibanez, a beat up RG570 is a better guitar in every way.

Maxon OD9 It’s a great pedal, iconic, but it isn’t better sounding than the cheap Behringer TO800 that I though I was upgrading. 

Bought a couple defective MP-1’s so far. I have had good ones so when I got bad sounding units it sucks. I sold off my last broken one recently and I’m keeping the last good one that came through. I’m honest when I sell them, they’re hit or miss and as the years go buy I come across a lot of misses and get hosed.


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## budda (Mar 28, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Wait wut? I remember you being all about the Roadster



I liked it more once I put EL34's in it. Had to borrow a 5150 for a gig once and had it a few days prior - quickly realized I preferred it .


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## USMarine75 (Mar 28, 2021)

Protestheriphery said:


> First thing that comes to mind is the Friedman BE-100. I mean, it's a-ite for what it does. Pretty solid in the modified Marshall game, and a nice amp in general. But the hype surrounding it, as well as the price tag are a bit misleading.
> 
> Both the Mesa recto's I fucct with, (pre-multiwatt triple, 25w mini) were confusing and underwhelming. I still rock the 212 horizontal cab, and mess with the digital plug in versions though. As far as I'm concerned, I'm done experimenting with actual Mesa amps.
> 
> ...



I've heard that a lot about the BE-100. I wonder if the Steve Stevens and Jake E Lee models have similar buyer's remorse?


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## soul_lip_mike (Mar 28, 2021)

ESP Lynch Kamikaze. Thing was heavy as hell and the fretboard was awful to play on. Hated the pickups too.


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## linthat22 (Mar 28, 2021)

ART SGX-2000 Express and Kemper Profiler.

The ART just sounded like ass no matter how I set it up and hated that my dad bought that for me. That was back in the mid-90's.

Fast forward to a couple years ago and managed to get a Kemper Profiler with the foot pedal. I was so stoked and then realized that I spent more time tinkering with it than playing through it. I could never find a sound I liked, so I sold it last week. Hopefully the person that bought it off of me has a lot of fun with it.

I'm hoping I don't have the same feeling with the Neural DSP Quad Cortex I ordered.


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## Mourguitars (Mar 28, 2021)

Rocktron 1x12 speakers ...gheez, they sounded so awful , it was some sort of custom speaker

I let everyone borrow them and they brought them right back..i sold them for $25 each at a yard sell

LOl

That was back in the days of HCAF


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## Mourguitars (Mar 28, 2021)

Edika said:


> I think my worst experience in terms of guitars was the Emperion V 7 string. It's the first time I didn't even have a honey moon period. I took it out, saw all the flaws, plugged it in waiting for BK Warpigs to flatten me at least and heard the weakest sound out of the red channel modern mode of a Triple Rectifier you could think (turns out they shipped it with whatever crap came from the Chinese factory instead of installing he Warpigs). Immediately packed it up and contacted them and was one of the few lucky ones that got a refund.
> 
> In terms of amps the Blackstar S1-200 was one of the amps that just didn't do it for me at all. First impressions were positive, the clean channel was great, the crunch and rock sounds were awesome and if you wanted a relatively heavy sound without too much palm muting it was OK. But metal and modern metal it was difficult to do. The bass response was just strange and the two OD channels with the gain past 4 it was just mushy. I tried the power amp with a couple of pedals and it slayed. Too bad the pre amp was not geared for metal.




I gave up on my EL34 100 watt S1...its downstairs in the warehouse...so many problems , cost more to repair than its worth or sounds...i did like the power scaling on it tho

Mike


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## technomancer (Mar 28, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> I've heard that a lot about the BE-100. I wonder if the Steve Stevens and Jake E Lee models have similar buyer's remorse?



You see this a lot from guys that buy them expecting them to be the be-all end-all amp that nothing comes close too... usually with the additional caveat that they weren't really comfortable spending that much for the amp but bought it anyways because of the expectations. They're REALLY nice sounding amps in the modified Marshall camp, and the various versions are variations on the same theme. If that's the tone you want they are fantastic, but like everything else guys hype up they are not going to make the heavens open, angels start singing, and you magically become the best guitar player ever.


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## narad (Mar 28, 2021)

technomancer said:


> but like everything else guys hype up they are not going to make the heavens open, angels start singing, and you magically become the best guitar player ever.



Archetype: Jesus Christ


----------



## laxu (Mar 28, 2021)

technomancer said:


> You see this a lot from guys that buy them expecting them to be the be-all end-all amp that nothing comes close too... usually with the additional caveat that they weren't really comfortable spending that much for the amp but bought it anyways because of the expectations. They're REALLY nice sounding amps in the modified Marshall camp, and the various versions are variations on the same theme. If that's the tone you want they are fantastic, but like everything else guys hype up they are not going to make the heavens open, angels start singing, and you magically become the best guitar player ever.



I haven't tried the BE-100 but tried the BE-50 Deluxe when shopping for an amp. I felt the Bogner GF45 SL I bought that day was just better in many ways. More gradual MV (though the BE sounded just fine even at low volume), better clean channel and overall a more classic, old school Marshall sound for overdriven stuff - minus the bad parts like needing to be cranked. 

The BE does its thing very well but if you don't like its particular flavor of modded Marshall tone then it's not going to be for you. I do feel they are a bit overpriced, here the BE-50 Deluxe was something like 1000 euros more expensive than the Bogner which is already a very expensive amp. Friedman is just the _brand du jour_ so people keep hyping them up. I keep rolling my eyes when every Quad Cortex review is "oh let's try the Friedman BE model" as the first thing...


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## Marked Man (Mar 28, 2021)

A late '80s or perhaps early '90s Laney 4x12 speaker cab.

The wimpiest thing I've ever heard. I owned it less than 4-5 months. My Mesa Thiele 1x12 blows it away....


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## technomancer (Mar 28, 2021)

laxu said:


> I haven't tried the BE-100 but tried the BE-50 Deluxe when shopping for an amp. I felt the Bogner GF45 SL I bought that day was just better in many ways. More gradual MV (though the BE sounded just fine even at low volume), better clean channel and overall a more classic, old school Marshall sound for overdriven stuff - minus the bad parts like needing to be cranked.



You're conflating your personal preferences with "better". If you're looking for an old school overdriven Plexi vibe I would not be looking at anything in the BE line. They can get into that ballpark if dialed in properly but it's not their forte, while the Goldfinger is pretty much Bogner's take on a hot-rodded Plexi (it's got Superlead in the amp name ).



laxu said:


> The BE does its thing very well but if you don't like its particular flavor of modded Marshall tone then it's not going to be for you. I do feel they are a bit overpriced, here the BE-50 Deluxe was something like 1000 euros more expensive than the Bogner which is already a very expensive amp. Friedman is just the _brand du jour_ so people keep hyping them up. I keep rolling my eyes when every Quad Cortex review is "oh let's try the Friedman BE model" as the first thing...



Your first sentence here pretty much sums up anyone's take on any amp... If it does what you're looking for it's great  Pricing is so subjective I don't even talk about it typically. Not to mention I have no idea what pricing is like on any of this stuff in Finland after import duties, vat, dealer markup etc etc From my personal perspective having built my own amps (including my own takes on Friedmans) I wouldn't buy most of this stuff retail ever, but if I was building to sell I would never do it for less than what these are retailing for 

Anyways I know you live to argue about stuff like this so let's get the thread back on topic


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## DeathByButterslax (Mar 28, 2021)

laxu said:


> I haven't tried the BE-100 but tried the BE-50 Deluxe when shopping for an amp. I felt the Bogner GF45 SL I bought that day was just better in many ways. More gradual MV (though the BE sounded just fine even at low volume), better clean channel and overall a more classic, old school Marshall sound for overdriven stuff - minus the bad parts like needing to be cranked.
> 
> The BE does its thing very well but if you don't like its particular flavor of modded Marshall tone then it's not going to be for you. I do feel they are a bit overpriced, here the BE-50 Deluxe was something like 1000 euros more expensive than the Bogner which is already a very expensive amp. Friedman is just the _brand du jour_ so people keep hyping them up. I keep rolling my eyes when every Quad Cortex review is "oh let's try the Friedman BE model" as the first thing...



And my experiences were the opposite, I’ve tried to like the Helios, Shiva, and the twin Jet, the only bogner I’ve enjoyed so far is the Uberschall Rev Blue. I feel like the Friedmans I’ve owned and tried just out did those amps in all categories, especially in tone/feel. I haven’t played a Goldfinger but I don’t imagine I would get what I would want out of it. I would never pay Friedman new money though. It’s all subjective, I think they make amazing amps personally.


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## narad (Mar 28, 2021)

Marked Man said:


> A late '80s or perhaps early '90s Laney 4x12 speaker cab.
> 
> The wimpiest thing I've ever heard. I owned it less than 4-5 months. My Mesa Thiele 1x12 blows it away....



Daaammmn, long head with blonde tolex and matching metal grill cab? That's my dream rig


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## Spinedriver (Mar 28, 2021)

linthat22 said:


> ART SGX-2000 Express and Kemper Profiler.
> 
> The ART just sounded like ass no matter how I set it up and hated that my dad bought that for me. That was back in the mid-90's.
> 
> ...



I bought an SGX-2000 back in '98. I agree that the 'pre amp' section on it didn't sound very good but I thought the rest of the effects were ok for the $130 that I paid for it.


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## laxu (Mar 28, 2021)

technomancer said:


> You're conflating your personal preferences with "better". If you're looking for an old school overdriven Plexi vibe I would not be looking at anything in the BE line. They can get into that ballpark if dialed in properly but it's not their forte, while the Goldfinger is pretty much Bogner's take on a hot-rodded Plexi (it's got Superlead in the amp name ).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, a lot about guitar tone is personal preferences isn't it? The Goldfinger has a huge variety of tones within if you take the time to twist those knobs. It's not going to satisfy extreme metal fans tho.

I put the two amps side by side, tried them out, didn't feel the BE was worth ~1000 euros extra, end of story. Doesn't mean it's not the best thing ever to someone else.


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## B.M.F. (Mar 28, 2021)

Biggest boondoggle of mine is the Randall Warhead combo I bought in early 2010s. 
This is really bad. If anyone remembers there were two versions, one with knob-boost one without, this was the one without a boost, the original combo. I played the T2 and then a 1987 RG100ES as a main amp (boosted with EQ in loop of course) which got me Randall obsessed. Jumped on a Warhead combo that was for sale because I _had_ to see just what this thing was about. After all, I really wanted one since my teens, when I was managing somehow with a Carvin SX200 combo and Digitech RP12.
The Warhead smelled awful and stank up the practice space because its friggin huge and the tolex was peeling off everywhere. A fun hot summer weekend took to fix that. There was an awful buzz when using the effects loop (hello Ebtech Hum Eliminator), and the built in digital onboard effects really degraded the core sound when added to mix. After taking it to Valley Sound to fix everything about it (who have the best Randall techs in Los Angeles) months later they called waving the white flag, it's not worth putting anymore money into than what I did so far (parts were off-spec from Randall, info was impossible to get from Randall, it would have to be a total design overhaul not worth the money.) I can't tell ya'll how much lipstick went on this pig, I was so determined to make it work...
After all that and when A/Bing to my other Ampeg/Randall/Peavey solid state amps the core tone could not compete. Something about these amps, the sound quality is just lacking. Worst SS I have played. After weeks of messing with the graphic eq, tone controls, speaker changes, I ended up using as a extension cabinet (metal surrounds in the cabinet face are dope) with several preamps like ADA-MP1 and TightMetal Pro.
I have never played an X2 or Century 200 but I can only imagine it's miles ahead of this amp. The new RGs like the 1503h are legions ahead of this, where all the gain structures are actually usable/boostable. There is a spot on the circuit board that says 'RG150' on the Warhead but unfortunately I lost all the pictures from inside the Warhead I had on my external drive to show. A senti-mental purchase (see what I did there) it went way too far & made me rethink all the aspects on how I approach gear and signal path.





(My old Warhead above after cosmetic repair, speakers were not the Celestion v30s but Eminence, can't remember models)


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 28, 2021)

BlasphemyMadeFlesh said:


> Biggest boondoggle of mine is the Randall Warhead combo I bought in early 2010s.
> This is really bad. If anyone remembers there were two versions, one with knob-boost one without, this was the one without a boost, the original combo. I played the T2 and then a 1987 RG100ES as a main amp (boosted with EQ in loop of course) which got me Randall obsessed. Jumped on a Warhead combo that was for sale because I _had_ to see just what this thing was about. After all, I really wanted one since my teens, when I was managing somehow with a Carvin SX200 combo and Digitech RP12.
> The Warhead smelled awful and stank up the practice space because its friggin huge and the tolex was peeling off everywhere. A fun hot summer weekend took to fix that. There was an awful buzz when using the effects loop (hello Ebtech Hum Eliminator), and the built in digital onboard effects really degraded the core sound when added to mix. After taking it to Valley Sound to fix everything about it (who have the best Randall techs in Los Angeles) months later they called waving the white flag, it's not worth putting anymore money into than what I did so far (parts were off-spec from Randall, info was impossible to get from Randall, it would have to be a total design overhaul not worth the money.) I can't tell ya'll how much lipstick went on this pig, I was so determined to make it work...
> After all that and when A/Bing to my other Ampeg/Randall/Peavey solid state amps the core tone could not compete. Something about these amps, the sound quality is just lacking. Worst SS I have played. After weeks of messing with the graphic eq, tone controls, speaker changes, I ended up using as a extension cabinet (metal surrounds in the cabinet face are dope) with several preamps like ADA-MP1 and TightMetal Pro.
> ...



Regarding the circuit board; I might be wrong, but I think a lot of the late-'90s Randalls were based on the RG150. 






This eventually spun off into the Cyclone, Warhead, and I think even the Paul Stanley Colossus?


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## B.M.F. (Mar 28, 2021)

I totally believe it, I wish I had those circuit pics. Look at the knobs and their placements, almost exactly the same. The power switch is on the back too. The Cyclone is literally the same layout.


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## TedEH (Mar 28, 2021)

Oh hey, I forgot about Randalls. I used to have an RH150G3 and I thought it was super cool when I first got it. And to be fair, as a practice amp, it wasn't bad. It didn't cut through very well though (any tube amp just destroyed the thing), and mine ended up failing. It kinda turned me off of Randall stuff after that.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 28, 2021)

BlasphemyMadeFlesh said:


> I totally believe it, I wish I had those circuit pics. Look at the knobs and their placements, almost exactly the same. The power switch is on the back too. The Cyclone is literally the same layout.



From what I've read from a possible Randall employee, Dime didn't even like the Warhead, but he didn't want to be an ass about it. And Paul Stanley would put his name on anything. Even Silvertones. 

But yeah, the RG150 was built in the US, the Cyclone was probably a revamped RG150 for being built overseas, and the Warhead was just to make money since... Pantera.


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## MASS DEFECT (Mar 28, 2021)

The only good tone I heard from a Randall Warhead was with Decapitated's Organic Hallucinosis. But even then, it's mixed with Mesa Boogie and BB preamps.


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## Mr_Marty (Mar 28, 2021)

Probably a JCM2000.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 28, 2021)

MASS DEFECT said:


> The only good tone I heard from a Randall Warhead was with Decapitated's Organic Hallucinosis. But even then, it's mixed with Mesa Boogie and BB preamps.



I might be wrong but I think Maximum the Hormone used one on one of their album and it sounded pretty good.



Outside of a studio setting... nope.


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## oniduder (Mar 28, 2021)

it'd have to be a splawn nitro

hated it


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## Konfyouzd (Mar 28, 2021)

I honestly can't think of any gear that legitimately disappointed me. Just a lot of stuff that wasn't for me.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 28, 2021)

Konfyouzd said:


> I honestly can't think of any gear that legitimately disappointed me. Just a lot of stuff that wasn't for me.



This. I do a lot of research before buying, but some stuff you just can’t try beforehand and I ran into some gear that just wasn’t my thing.


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## cmpxchg (Mar 29, 2021)

steinmetzify said:


> This. I do a lot of research before buying, but some stuff you just can’t try beforehand and I ran into some gear that just wasn’t my thing.


I'm in the same boat. The only big exception is when I bought an Ibanez TAM100 back in 2014. For whatever reason, it grabbed me at just the right time and I pulled the trigger. Disappointed isn't the way I'd describe it--I still have the guitar, it's still my favorite feeling neck I've ever played (wenge/bubinga with wenge fingerboard, wow)--but I'm not nearly as much of an eight-string player as I thought.


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## Steinmetzify (Mar 29, 2021)

cmpxchg said:


> I'm in the same boat. The only big exception is when I bought an Ibanez TAM100 back in 2014. For whatever reason, it grabbed me at just the right time and I pulled the trigger. Disappointed isn't the way I'd describe it--I still have the guitar, it's still my favorite feeling neck I've ever played (wenge/bubinga with wenge fingerboard, wow)--but I'm not nearly as much of an eight-string player as I thought.



Was that for me with the M80M; had to pay to play. Nothing at all wrong with the guitar, but there were zero locally to try so it was an experiment for sure. 

Got a good deal on it used, passed it on to the next guy for same price, we were both happy.


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## cGoEcYk (Mar 29, 2021)

Pretty much all FX pedals over $100 that I've tried. Returned or sold all. I guess I enjoy cheap pedals.


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## Emperoff (Mar 29, 2021)

Seriously I'm having a hard time thinking about disappointing gear. I mean, maybe _*"not for me"* _would be a better choice of words. Even the preamp I mentioned in my previous post probably sounded great for other people. Just not what I wanted at that time (and definetely not for 250€).

I think the only thing I can think of was a portable battery powered amp to play with headphones I bought a lifetime ago for 20$ the distortion sounded awful and if you wanted more gain it went awfully loud. But then again, it was just 20$ so I guess that if I wasn't a kid trying to play Metallica by then I would have probably appreciated it as a practice tool since cleans were fine.


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## USMarine75 (Mar 29, 2021)

oniduder said:


> it'd have to be a splawn nitro
> 
> hated it



Yup. The Nitro KT88 sounds like everything I would love on paper, but the Quickrod 100 EL34 is so much better in every way.


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## Matt08642 (Mar 29, 2021)

cGoEcYk said:


> Pretty much all FX pedals over $100 that I've tried. Returned or sold all. I guess I enjoy cheap pedals.



I love cheap/time-tested effects. I throw in time-tested since those are cheap and plentiful for the most part, but boutique/super pricey stuff has just never caught my eye like some BOSS version for $75 used after shipping and taxes and whatever else.

I've been let down testing out very pricey delays and modulation, and I always think "Eh, there's some BOSS version on Reverb for 1/4 the price"


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## Emperoff (Mar 29, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> I love cheap/time-tested effects. I throw in time-tested since those are cheap and plentiful for the most part, but boutique/super pricey stuff has just never caught my eye like some BOSS version for $75 used after shipping and taxes and whatever else.
> 
> I've been let down testing out very pricey delays and modulation, and I always think "Eh, there's some BOSS version on Reverb for 1/4 the price"



So much this. Most of the times I only use FX for cleans or leads so why spend a fortune on something that gets heard for like 30 secs. It's not like cheaper units can't do the job, either.

Although I must admit I'm spoiled by my Boss DM2W. It's 150€, but the thing sounds gorgeous.


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## Seamus McFlanery (Mar 29, 2021)

I got three major disappointments:

1) Diezel VH4: Only liked channel 3, the rest were meh to bad.
2) Mesa Boogie Roadster: Way too dark, always felt like the amp was buried in the mix.
3) PRS Archon/Driftwood Purple Nightmare/Peavey 5150: A bit of a cheat, but all were praised by Youtubers and the guitarist community as some of the best tones ever. My Mark IV coped 5150 tones better than the Peavey ever could. The Archon was just meh and the Driftwood has this unpleasant mid range to it I could not dial out.


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## Hollowway (Mar 30, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> VHT Pittbull UL w/out geq. I spent the better part of a year looking for a UL but the one I got wasn't my thing at all, so I sold it. It was just too stiff feeling, too dry, too boomy on the low end. I love my UL module and CL100 head . They feel way more saturated (but can still feel a bit stiff and dry) and are more in line with how a lot of people described their ULs.
> 
> Randall V2 Archetype. I couldn't find one for a decent price in the states, so I imported one from guitarguitar. Clean channel was decent, nothing special. Solid state channel was fine, tube channel was cool, kind of a recto/5150 vibe but much tighter. I liked the amp til I recorded it and noticed a weird sub bass/low mid thing it had no matter how you dialed it in. I ended up selling it since it didn't stand out amongst my other amps soundwise.


Huh, do you think it’s the lack of GEQ on it? I’d expect it to sound more like the 100CL, as I have a GEQ UL and a GEQ 50CL and they sound surprisingly similar.


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## Breeding The Spawn (Mar 30, 2021)

1 disappointment for me was impulse buying a Pro Series Jackson RRT5 knowing that I never got along with a King V I also bought a few years back just because it looked cool. The RR was a killer playing guitar but that V isn't for me, sold it a few days ago and now probably looking to buy a cool Strat.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 30, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Huh, do you think it’s the lack of GEQ on it? I’d expect it to sound more like the 100CL, as I have a GEQ UL and a GEQ 50CL and they sound surprisingly similar.


yeah lack of GEQ was part of the problem. I can get my 100CL/ UL module to feel more like my old UL by shutting off the GEQ, though both still have more gain/saturation on tap. Running a 10 band eq in the loop on the UL didn't really have the same effect as the baked in GEQ on my CL either.


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## Lax (Mar 30, 2021)

Boss CS3, even after the msm workshop mod
A LD system wireless guitar system that clipped like crazy (was like 180€...) in the end it was just an AKG repack


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## The Blue Ghost (Mar 30, 2021)

"...Needless to say, he denied it and tried to blame it on my OCD or whatever and I promptly sold whatever 'bergs I had and went with Aristides. No regrets. (Sorry if this seems like a shameless plug or dig, I'm just honest)"

Ola be like: "You're nitpicking and biased, I win. Bye byee


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## Bob911 (Mar 30, 2021)

Basically any guitar (or bass) that didn't work the way I want out of the box.
I feel a little bit stupid for not returning these instruments instead of modding them and basically losing money.
I almost all ordered them all online as they were not available in stores nearby.

I had an Ibanez RGD7320z and I hated it, I changed the pickups twice and wasn't satisfied by the way it felt, the neck was too thin for my tastes.
Then I purchased an Ibanez BTB775 and I was more disappointed by the tone, changed the pickups for something custom.
Tokai Les Paul shape (I don't even know the proper name of the model), changed the pickups, the bridge, at the end I spent more on that piece of garbage than if I bought a second hand made in Japan Tokai.

in amps : PRS MT15, while I love the lead channel, the clean channels sucks balls, it saturates in a very weird way that reminds me of op amps saturation, which is very weird.
I would have prefered something a little bit more dirty on the edge of breakup, obviously an MT15 isn't the best amp for that.
But I still use it for its lead channel, just not for clean and crunch.


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## hazimwood (Mar 30, 2021)

Randy said:


> JCM 800 2203
> 
> They're kind of the core of all those 80s/90s metal amps but raw, it isn't particularly gainy at all. I mean, everyone knows you need to crank a Marshall to get "the sound" but I turned this up ludicrous volumes to get "huh, that's pretty good Alice Cooper tone" but that's kinda it. There's a multitude of amps that break up way sooner that still sounds just as good IMO. Also realized I'm not a big fan of 6550s


All of those guys used Pedals in front of it.


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## Randy (Mar 30, 2021)

hazimwood said:


> All of those guys used Pedals in front of it.



Right, so, couple things... I did use it with a tube screamer and it was better but still didn't really 'crunch up' until I pushed it to the point I was doing less overdriving and more distorting with the pedal. At that point you're kinda using the pedal more as a preamp than just boosting with it, which I thought was uncharacteristic.

What I did not know is that, you're right, they had no qualms with sticking lots of stuff infront of them. I see a lot of parametric EQs and things like the SD-1 etc that really made the amp a different animal. Also, most of the iconic stuff were modded to hell and back AND had pedals infront of them, there's definitely very little raw JCM 800 happening on those old recordings. I didn't realize how much like the older Marshalls those early 800s were, they were more rock and roll amp than heavy metal amp.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 30, 2021)

Marshall didn't start making "metal" amps until the 900...and we all know how that turned out. 

No one was really running "just amps" back then, the appeal of the 800 was that it was simple, loud, and flexible enough to be easily shaped into anything. Not that they didn't have any character, because they definitely do, but that's more in the dynamics and in the room sort of thing. 

It should be fairly telling that the two "metal" signature model 800s has built in overdrive/distortion pedals.


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## Dalroth (Mar 30, 2021)

I bought an Epiphone Goth. I was fully expecting it to be an awesome sounding Les Paul style guitar with sustain for days. What I got instead was an unbalanced heavy brick of a guitar with a dull lifeless sound and nearly zero sustain. The headstock was so heavy it was unplayable unless I was sitting.

I tried hot rodding it with some KK EMGs I had (why the hell not) but they only made the thing sound worse. I don't miss it.


----------



## Ross82 (Mar 30, 2021)

Both Gibsons in my case, a Gothic Les Paul I had in the early 2000’s that was pure junk. In fact I had two, the first one had a broken pot shaft the knob so I sent back for exchange. The replacement had terrible lacquer chipping on the fretboard edge and both guitars had horrible fat necks like baseball bats.

The second I didn’t actually own but went to a store intending to buy a Hummingbird that I’d coveted for years. Got to the store and pulled a $4k one off the wall only to find the setup was pathetic with huge action. There was a used Simon & Patrick on the rail for $500 that played way better, embarrassingly so. 
Pretty much the last nail in Gibsons coffin for me, I’ve only ever encountered one Gibson that was decent to me and that was a late 90’s Les Paul Custom that a customer had put EMG’s in but it was physically abused and had A LOT of wear but played great.


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## Emperoff (Mar 30, 2021)

You guys disappointed by the JCM 800 should really try the *Laney VH100R*. It's based on the JCM800 2203 (and can be easily modded to be 100% exact if you want to) with a gorgeous clean channel (+ crunch mode) and a boost option for the lead to get into metal territory without pedals. It's obviously not a supertight metal amp, but with a boost it sounds ridiculous and I always got compliments to my tone when using it live (playing melodic death/thrash at that time).

It can also be found dirt cheap nowadays, which is a bonus.

It has a few downsides, though.
1 - It's ungodly loud, although the loop can be bridged to use its level control as a master volume.
2 - It weights a metric ton. The 212 combo version of it is heavier than a Gojira album 
3 - It lacks MIDI, although everything can be accessed with its footswitch.

If you don't plan to move it around, it's probably the most versatile JCM800-style amp ever made, and it sounds awesome. The only reason I sold it was its weight and the fact that I needed my gear on roadcases for touring, making it a chore to transport with the 412. A 212 combo suits me better for that.


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## ld100 (Mar 30, 2021)

I saw few mentions of POD HD500 in this thread and wanted to agree that it is the most disappointing piece of gear I owned... but then I realized I had Boss NS2 pedal. NS2 is the most disappointing noise gate ever - it probably added more of its own noise than the one it suppressed.


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## Ted Pikul (Mar 30, 2021)

Not a bitter disappointment, but it can't be that difficult or expensive to put a decent clean channel in a 6505. Why won't they?


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 30, 2021)

Ted Pikul said:


> Not a bitter disappointment, but it can't be that difficult or expensive to put a decent clean channel in a 6505. Why won't they?



They did. It's called the 5153. 

Why isn't Peavey doing anything? That costs money. Something that they have not a lot of and less of a wanting to spend on silly things like products that people want to buy.


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## Emperoff (Mar 30, 2021)

Ted Pikul said:


> Not a bitter disappointment, but it can't be that difficult or expensive to put a decent clean channel in a 6505. Why won't they?



- Solution A: Put a low gain tube (5751 or 12AY7) for the clean channel
- Solution B: Get an AMT F1 pedal, which is a JFET Fender preamp.
- Solution C: Use a clean ampsim of any Multi-Fx unit in 4CM.
- Solution D: Get a Victory Copper V4 pedal.

So it's not like you can't get over it.


----------



## potency (Mar 30, 2021)

BornToLooze said:


> A Dual Rec.
> 
> Everybody that has one loves them because how brutal they are, they sound brutal recorded, I mean
> 
> ...




Some of my favorite tones ever have been laid down with a Recto and / or V30s. I sadly discovered that neither work for me at all.


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## laxu (Mar 30, 2021)

potency said:


> Some of my favorite tones ever have been laid down with a Recto and / or V30s. I sadly discovered that neither work for me at all.



I'm in the same boat. If I had to pick a Mesa, it'd be a Mark series or Lonestar.


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## sleepy502 (Mar 30, 2021)

Tried a PRS Custom 24 in a guitar center that was so poorly setup it turned me off PRS.


----------



## The Blue Ghost (Mar 30, 2021)

Not to come of as a Strandberg hater but when I tried a Made to Measure and Vader back to back in a shop the Vader just smoked it in terms of comfort and playability in my eyes (or hands I guess).

The Strandberg felt weirdly cumbersome and bulky despite weighing as much as a feather.


----------



## pearl_07 (Mar 30, 2021)

The Seymour Duncan Nazgul 7 was awful in my experience. Thin and honky with way too much fizz for my liking.

I was stoked when I got the Schecter KM-7 (first version), but I was so turned off by the Nazgul and some factory wiring issues that I sold the guitar almost immediately.


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## Electric Wizard (Mar 30, 2021)

Honestly every 7 and 8 string I've had. I really want to like them but could never dial in a tone that I was pleased with and sounded balanced. High strings and low strings always competing in a way that I never feel on a 6.


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## Mvotre (Mar 30, 2021)

Boss multi effects. Sold all my pedals to but the new (at the time) flagship Boss GT-8. HATED the heavy sounds, and lost a lot of time reading forums and making some weird stuff to try to get a better sound. 

Years later, just with a cheapo setup, bought a boss GT-1. Meh, still the same COSM processor, still the bad tones. At least with earphones, everything with a bit more gain sounds really harsh to me. Right now i'm messing around with it..


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 30, 2021)

Mvotre said:


> Boss multi effects. Sold all my pedals to but the new (at the time) flagship Boss GT-8. HATED the heavy sounds, and lost a lot of time reading forums and making some weird stuff to try to get a better sound.
> 
> Years later, just with a cheapo setup, bought a boss GT-1. Meh, still the same COSM processor, still the bad tones. At least with earphones, everything with a bit more gain sounds really harsh to me. Right now i'm messing around with it..



Is the Boss GT-1 based on the 100 series or 1000 series?


----------



## Emperoff (Mar 30, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Is the Boss GT-1 based on the 100 series or 1000 series?



GT-100. Same as the Katana line.

Honestly from what I've heard of the GT-1000, there doesn't seem to be much improvement anyway...


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> GT-100. Same as the Katana line.
> 
> Honestly from what I've heard of the GT-1000, there doesn't seem to be much improvement anyway...



Yep that's what I expected. The GT100 series is okay, but the GT1000 line doesn't... really sound that good for the price.  I saw some videos where it sounded decent with 3rd party IRs, but those tend to make anything sound decent. 

Then again, there was that one dude here that swore the GT1000 wiped the floor with both the Helix and the Axe 3.


----------



## Emperoff (Mar 30, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yep that's what I expected. The GT100 series is okay, but the GT1000 line doesn't... really sound that good for the price.  I saw some videos where it sounded decent with 3rd party IRs, but those tend to make anything sound decent.
> 
> Then again, there was that one dude here that swore the GT1000 wiped the floor with both the Helix and the Axe 3.



I do have a GT100 (which I bought to replace a GT8). Although the amp models kinda suck, the FX are pretty good and it's very easy to use and navigate. I use it as a MIDI controller+FX unit for my tube amp and it works pretty damn well. No interest on upgrading to anything since it gets the job done and it's cheap.

The assigns feature is also super useful, allowing the trigger of up to 8 different parameters (FX on-off, gain increase, eq changes, or whatever) without changing presets.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I do have a GT100 (which I bought to replace a GT8). Although the amp models kinda suck, the FX are pretty good and it's very easy to use and navigate. I use it as a MIDI controller+FX unit for my tube amp and it works pretty damn well. No interest on upgrading to anything since it gets the job done.
> 
> The assigns feature is also super useful, allowing the trigger of up to 8 different parameters (FX on-off, gain increase, eq changes, or whatever) without changing presets.



That's honestly what I was looking at the GT100/1000 for. Heard great thing about the GT series effects. But then Line 6 released the Helix and it was closer to my thing, due to how good the routing is.


----------



## Emperoff (Mar 30, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That's honestly what I was looking at the GT100/1000 for. Heard great thing about the GT series effects. But then Line 6 released the Helix and it was closer to my thing, due to how good the routing is.



Sure. The GT-100 is half the price, though. Since I'm using a real amp, I have no need for better ampsims.


----------



## Bite the Strings (Mar 30, 2021)

Framus Cobra(one of the later models with the external bias points) - Lots of unwanted low-end and gain, a terrible tendency to be fizzy as hell and weirdly unbalanced channels. A bit like a badly adjusted rectifier without the flexibility to get to the good sounds. Also a complete pain to get into because you basically have to deconstruct the whole headshell including the metal edges. Had red light though!

Fame Stingray 5 String clone - Fame instruments have a pretty good reputation around here because they were made(back then) by a polish factory that also made high end instrument. The one i got was very heavy, had dirt underneath the finish on the neck and worst of all: the frets were apparently routed out before installing and there were huge filled areas around the fret ends, atleast a few mm in diameter. The filler they used wasnt even properly hardened, i could reshape it with my fingernail. Customer service claimed everything was perfectly normal. Of course... 

Also not Guitar related but: Elektron Digitakt(and Digitone to a lesser extend) - you can argue about all the software limitations of this thing but the real dealbreaker are the goddamn clunky triggers. They are LOUD!, as in youll need some proper isolating headphones to not be overwhelmed and it gets worse, the damn thing resonates at a pitch whenever you hit a button. Have fun ignoring constant dissonant noise! You can also look past the buttons straight onto some PCS inside because the gaps of the triggers are that big. Dont wanna know what happens if water gets near it. Went back in less than 24 hours after elektron support claimed the noise is normal because of their 'high quality' triggers.


----------



## TedEH (Mar 30, 2021)

Mvotre said:


> Boss multi effects.


I had been refraining from including my "learning" gear, but I've definitely had a whole bunch of multi-effect pedals before that did a few things ok but most things terribly. I used a Digitech RP3 for a long time - which had some "cool" for the time chorus effects and stuff, but the gain on it was a tin can full of bees with no dynamics that responded horribly to volume controls. The pedals themselves on it were just cheap microswitches that kept failing so I'd re-solder new ones back on until I just gave up 'cause it wasn't worth repairing anymore. I feel like I've had similar experiences with Boss multi-effects, but at least I've never broken one yet.

I also went through a lot of Behringer stuff. I had a GMX212 combo that was... a reasonable practice/learning amp for the time. At one point I disconnected the amp and used it as a cab, but it was terrible sounding as a cab and the speakers weren't very loud. The controls eventually got really scratchy. I used one of their Ultrabass amps for a few months until it set a cab on fire then never worked again. Went through a mixer or two, but if I'm remembering right, the mic inputs would break off of them. I've had trouble defending Behringer stuff - I don't trust them.


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## Hollowway (Mar 31, 2021)

sleepy502 said:


> Tried a guitar in a guitar center that was so poorly setup it turned me off guitars.



FTFY
Honestly, it’s a wonder they sell any guitars off the shelf in GC at all, as they’re all sorely lacking in setup.

One of my biggest disappointments was an in-stock bass I got from MG Bass. The frets were sanded down like a Gibson fretless wonder. The luthier is a nice enough guy, so he built me another one. The frets weren’t flattened, but the action still needs to be fairly high to play.

I also got a Gary Kramer Guitars R727. It was supposed to be scalloped on the higher frets. But it looked like those horror stories you see online. The binding was all gouged up, it was filed under the fret ends in placed, etc. I told Leo Scalia, the designer, about it, and he said that it’s not really that bad, in that it doesn’t affect playability. And then there were two drill holes in the binding at the 24th fret mark. I asked him why there were holes there (that went a few millimeters deep) instead of the side fret markers like the other locations. He said they thought it would be a cool feature, and that’s why they designed it that way. I thought that was a load of BS, and sold the guitar.

My last entry to this thread is the 7 string Ibby Prestige in Rhodonite Pink that Nick at the Axe Palace did. For whatever reason, the HS of the 7s looked good, but the bodies were a way lighter pink (like pepto colored). As soon as I popped the case I asked Nick about it, and he said he had already been in touch with Ibanez, and they told him it was within tolerance. But it was a completely different color. So I returned it. (And bought a significantly more expensive ESP from him. )


----------



## rokket2005 (Mar 31, 2021)

My biggest disappointment was a boss pw10 vwah. It was the second pedal I ever owned and it was when I learned how garbage cosm was. I ended up trading it years later for a ds lite with mk super circuit and pokemon diamond and it was the best trade I ever made.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Mar 31, 2021)

Breeding The Spawn said:


> 1 disappointment for me was impulse buying a Pro Series Jackson RRT5 knowing that I never got along with a King V I also bought a few years back just because
> it looked cool. The RR was a killer playing guitar but that V isn't for me, sold it a few days ago and now probably looking to buy a cool Strat.



This is off SSO script, says here it ends with you buying another RRT5 and King V.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Mar 31, 2021)

Late 90s MIM Telecaster Thinline Deluxe '72 RI. I put way too much enthusiasm into it before I got it. It was well made but turns out I didn't jive with the frets or vintage neck at....alll. Plus the pickups were not doing anything for me but they were an odd size IIRC. So sold it onward and replaced with a new RG570 that I had sold for the Thinline.


----------



## Hollowway (Mar 31, 2021)

I’ve found that sometimes I REALLY am
Jonesing for a guitar, only to find out later it was just a passing infatuation. I almost think it’s good when I can’t find one FS right when I want it, because then I have to wait to see if the “want” passes. So here’s my thinking. 

1) if you wait a couple of weeks, and still want it, you’ve got a guitar you’ll probably want long term.
2) if you wait a few years, and still want it, you must have ordered a custom. Who knows if you’ll even be alive when it arrives.


----------



## Emperoff (Mar 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> I’ve found that sometimes I REALLY am
> Jonesing for a guitar, only to find out later it was just a passing infatuation. I almost think it’s good when I can’t find one FS right when I want it, because then I have to wait to see if the “want” passes. So here’s my thinking.
> 
> 1) if you wait a couple of weeks, and still want it, you’ve got a guitar you’ll probably want long term.
> 2) if you wait a few years, and still want it, you must have ordered a custom. Who knows if you’ll even be alive when it arrives.



Little story. I once saw what was the closest thing to my dream guitar, but was hella expensive. At some point I decided to buy it and send the store an offer... Just to find out it was sold out. I felt relieved. No more thinking about it, no money dilemmas, etc.

Two years later I decided to buy another guitar that wasn't quite "it" but was cool enough and at a very reasonable price. And 3-months later, the first one pops up for sale on Reverb, and I did not have the fucking money. So back again with GAS anxiety and money dilemmas...

I finally pulled the trigger. Had to borrow some money, though. Turned out to be the best playing guitar I've ever had, and it's not going anywhere. One year later Jackson bumped their USA prices around 1-2k, so fucking glad I got it. 

So my point is, if you really want something, you know it. We always have these little "whims" with this or that gear, but they are nothing to lose sleep over. If you have the change to snag what you always wanted, _*do it*_. Worst case scenario, you can always flip it back. Whatever it is.


----------



## USMarine75 (Mar 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> I also got a Gary Kramer Guitars R727...
> 
> My last entry to this thread is the 7 string Ibby Prestige in Rhodonite Pink that Nick at the Axe Palace did. For whatever reason, the HS of the 7s looked good, but the bodies were a way lighter pink (like pepto colored).


----------



## Protestheriphery (Mar 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> I’ve found that sometimes I REALLY am
> Jonesing for a guitar, only to find out later it was just a passing infatuation. I almost think it’s good when I can’t find one FS right when I want it, because then I have to wait to see if the “want” passes. So here’s my thinking.
> 
> 1) if you wait a couple of weeks, and still want it, you’ve got a guitar you’ll probably want long term.
> 2) if you wait a few years, and still want it, you must have ordered a custom. Who knows if you’ll even be alive when it arrives.


This past year has hit me with tons of pandemic-inspired GAS. Every week found me craving a different guitar. 

The one mainstay, however, has been a Gibson SG '61. I eventually caved in and bought one, only to end up returning it after a month. Neck was fatter than Id hoped for, couldnt gel w it.


----------



## jaxadam (Mar 31, 2021)

My biggest disappointment was when PRS went overseas with the SE line. Broke my heart and killed the ether of PRS for me.


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## Hollowway (Mar 31, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


>


Ask an ye shall receive! The treble side was way worse than this. You can see how it’s undermining the frets, too.


----------



## USMarine75 (Mar 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Ask an ye shall receive! The treble side was way worse than this. You can see how it’s undermining the frets, too.
> 
> View attachment 92061



Zoomed out... not the worst thing I've ever seen.

Zoomed in...


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## USMarine75 (Mar 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Ask an ye shall receive! The treble side was way worse than this. You can see how it’s undermining the frets, too.
> 
> [The=full]92061[/ATTACH]



Zoomed out... not the worst thing I've ever seen.

Zoomed in...


----------



## Hollowway (Apr 1, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


>


And here is that Ibby. It’s hard to capture how different the colors were, but you get the idea. It just nagged at me, and I couldn’t unsee it.


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## laxu (Apr 1, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> And here is that Ibby. It’s hard to capture how different the colors were, but you get the idea. It just nagged at me, and I couldn’t unsee it.
> 
> View attachment 92064



Yeah the headstock and body look like two different guitars. I would not find that "acceptable variance" either. The headstock is probably the color it was supposed to be?


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## ManOnTheEdge (Apr 1, 2021)

I had a few Vigier Excaliburs and then snagged a one-off single pickup model which was a sizeable outlay.

took it home and restrung and the nut had been cut too low which meant that the previous strings had cut into the wood behind the nut.

could have gotten it fixed but I just went for return/refund - excellent guitars but I’d expect perfection for what was £3k 10 years ago

on the upside, it took some of the allure off of high-end guitars and I’m much less of an impulse buyer


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## Hollowway (Apr 1, 2021)

laxu said:


> Yeah the headstock and body look like two different guitars. I would not find that "acceptable variance" either. The headstock is probably the color it was supposed to be?


Yeah. The body ended up a lighter, washed out version of the proper color. Nick said it didn’t happen to any of the 6 strings, though. I guess some people where ok with it, which is why Nick went ahead and sold them as they were. But I was super bummed.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 1, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> My biggest disappointment was when PRS went overseas with the SE line. Broke my heart and killed the ether of PRS for me.



God I find it hilarious people still have this gatekeeping mentality towards budget brands.


----------



## Thep (Apr 1, 2021)

I hated my Vader cab. I tried so hard to convince myself into liking the tone, but found myself lusting after basically any other cheapo cabinet after playing on the Vader for a few months.


----------



## hazimwood (Apr 1, 2021)

Randy said:


> Right, so, couple things... I did use it with a tube screamer and it was better but still didn't really 'crunch up' until I pushed it to the point I was doing less overdriving and more distorting with the pedal. At that point you're kinda using the pedal more as a preamp than just boosting with it, which I thought was uncharacteristic.
> 
> What I did not know is that, you're right, they had no qualms with sticking lots of stuff infront of them. I see a lot of parametric EQs and things like the SD-1 etc that really made the amp a different animal. Also, most of the iconic stuff were modded to hell and back AND had pedals infront of them, there's definitely very little raw JCM 800 happening on those old recordings. I didn't realize how much like the older Marshalls those early 800s were, they were more rock and roll amp than heavy metal amp.


Like Jeff henneman used a modded MT-2.


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## sonoftheoldnorth (Apr 1, 2021)

Thep said:


> I hated my Vader cab. I tried so hard to convince myself into liking the tone, but found myself lusting after basically any other cheapo cabinet after playing on the Vader for a few months.


What didn't you like about it?


----------



## GunpointMetal (Apr 1, 2021)

Mesa Dual Rectifier. My first expensive tube amp as a teenage, bought it because a lot of people that were famous were using them. I tried it in the store and thought "I can work with this at home and it will be great because it is an awesome amp pros use." Took it home and spent a good three months fighting with the stupid thing. There was nothing wrong with it, I just hated playing through it. Other people would play through it, dial it in, whatever, sounded great. When I'd play through it I felt like I was fighting to get every single note out. Traded it for a Carvin X100B, tube screamer, and a Hush noise gate (and a bunch of cash) and immediately liked playing the guitar again. I was so mad about not liking that amp when I was 16, lol.


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## jaxadam (Apr 1, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> God I find it hilarious people still have this gatekeeping mentality towards budget brands.



I mean, this was over 20 years ago, and I definitely wasn't the only one that was shocked or disappointed at the time. Funny enough, my guitar teacher at the time and I made a bet if PRS would ever make a 7 string. He said never ever ever ever ever.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Apr 1, 2021)

jaxadam said:


> I mean, this was over 20 years ago, and I definitely wasn't the only one that was shocked or disappointed at the time. Funny enough, my guitar teacher at the time and I made a bet if PRS would ever make a 7 string. He said never ever ever ever ever.



to be fair those first set of se's were just vaguely prs shaped guitars.

I had like 3 of them when first came out.


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## youngthrasher9 (Apr 2, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> God I find it hilarious people still have this gatekeeping mentality towards budget brands.


+1 big time on this one.


----------



## RiksRiks (May 29, 2021)

NVM: I wrote about a couple of guitars I haven't owned for long periods of time so I just edited the comment.


----------



## USMarine75 (May 29, 2021)

Empress pedals. All of them.


----------



## Ted Pikul (May 29, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> Empress pedals. All of them.



Even...even Heavy?


----------



## loganflynn294 (May 29, 2021)

Diezel Herbert MK2. Most underwhelming high dollar piece of gear I've ever owned. On paper it's great, has a ton of cool features and a lot of headroom. No matter what i did I couldn't get a satisfactory high gain sound out of it. Tried a million different boosts and eq pedals but nothing worked. People say they have a "smooth, polished sound" and that is 100% correct. Ended up just using it as a power amp for a Bogner Fish rack setup I had. Bought an old Uberschall Rev 2 and immediately put the Diezel up for sale. Guess I just don't get along with the Diezel sound.


----------



## USMarine75 (May 29, 2021)

Ted Pikul said:


> Even...even Heavy?



That was the one I hated the most. Then again my tastes were much different then. Plus i didnt know nearly as much as I know now about dialing pedals in.

But I remember thinking every tone had a rounded (not tight) low end and mushy undefined mids.


----------



## budda (May 29, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> Empress pedals. All of them.



What about the delays and reverbs werent doin it?

The zoia scares me, the poly digit seems more manageable


----------



## Ted Pikul (May 29, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> That was the one I hated the most. Then again my tastes were much different then. Plus i didnt know nearly as much as I know now about dialing pedals in.
> 
> But I remember thinking every tone had a rounded (not tight) low end and mushy undefined mids.



Hated...the most?

It's my thumpiest high-gain pedal. Neighbors don't like it. It could be tighter. In fact it could use a tightness knob like my amptweaker pedals have.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 29, 2021)

Guess i'm throwing the Alexander Sugarcube into the mix. Amazing sounding pedal (except for the borderline-useless Rotary), but holy FUCK the noise was really bad. Apparently other Alexander pedals from the same series suffered noise issues, so it's what's been keeping me away from trying it again.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636 (May 29, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah lack of GEQ was part of the problem. I can get my 100CL/ UL module to feel more like my old UL by shutting off the GEQ, though both still have more gain/saturation on tap. Running a 10 band eq in the loop on the UL didn't really have the same effect as the baked in GEQ on my CL either.


What year was the UL?

They made some significant changes over the years to that amp and in MY opinion the early ones are garbage. 

I had a 1994 UL and a 100CL. The 100CL smoked it in every way.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (May 29, 2021)

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> What year was the UL?
> 
> They made some significant changes over the years to that amp and in MY opinion the early ones are garbage.
> 
> I had a 1994 UL and a 100CL. The 100CL smoked it in every way.


I don't remember exact year but it was def early 90s. My current 100CL is from the mid 2000s iirc and has wayyyy more gain/can get much more saturated comparatively.


----------



## USMarine75 (May 29, 2021)

budda said:


> What about the delays and reverbs werent doin it?
> 
> The zoia scares me, the poly digit seems more manageable





Ted Pikul said:


> Hated...the most?
> 
> It's my thumpiest high-gain pedal. Neighbors don't like it. It could be tighter. In fact it could use a tightness knob like my amptweaker pedals have.



To be fair I think I had already previously posted about how disappointed I was with the Keeley Monterrey. 

Regarding Empress... I only had the Multi and the Heavy. The Multi I remember liking some but not loving any of the tones. I didnt like the fuzz.

The Heavy as I said was woody no matter what I did. It could totally have been used error or preferences at the time... I'd be interested in trying now. 

The Reverb I cant give a fair review because it was DOA.

But overall I was left with a bad taste... much like HHTJH after getting a bad Alexander (my Silver Jubilee is awesome).


----------



## ATRguitar91 (May 29, 2021)

USMarine75 said:


> The Heavy as I said was woody no matter what I did. It could totally have been used error or preferences at the time... I'd be interested in trying now.


I wanted to love the Heavy because the feature set is killer, but ultimately let it go. There was a harshness or graininess or something to the mids that I couldn't unhear once I heard it.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (May 30, 2021)

sonoftheoldnorth said:


> What didn't you like about it?


They're cold, percussive, and rather lifeless. They sound horrendous in the studio. They really do kinda suck. With better speakers it'd be better off


----------



## Thaeon (May 30, 2021)

Most disappointing piece of gear for me was the AxeFX II. Next to that EMGs.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (May 30, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Guess i'm throwing the Alexander Sugarcube into the mix. Amazing sounding pedal (except for the borderline-useless Rotary), but holy FUCK the noise was really bad. Apparently other Alexander pedals from the same series suffered noise issues, so it's what's been keeping me away from trying it again.



Adding to this; Duncan Full Shred. Sounded and felt like a lower output JB. 

Also thought the DiMarzio Super 2 was supposed to be a tighter, brighter Super Distortion... Nah. If anything it actually felt muddier?


----------



## USMarine75 (May 30, 2021)

I take back the Empress comment. It's not even close.

Another thread just reminded me of the Lace Alumitone and Deathbucker. Hot garbage right there. I spent a lot on the pickups and install in my JEM. And wow they were so bad. And they were worse in any split or combined settings. The only good setting was the Lace single in the middle lol.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (May 30, 2021)

The Seymour Duncan Black Winters.

I wasn't expecting them to revolutionize my tone or anything but the stock pickups I had were dry and not there, so I swapped them for a BW set.

They aren't horrible but, the stock pickups in my other guitar beat them so bad that if I ever swap them out again I'm getting another set of those..which wouldbe considerably cheaper. THOSE should be called Black Winters, honestly.

The more I play them the more I realize they aren't worth the money, not only that but marketing them as a black metal pickup is silly since they miss the mark. Ah well. It's not on my main guitar and they sound good when layered with other guitars so not a total loss. I don't care enough to change them but if I did care they'd be gone.


----------



## sirbuh (May 30, 2021)

keeley monterey = garbage. qed


----------



## Wolfhorsky (May 30, 2021)

I was dissapointed or underwhelmed with:
1. Orange Micro Dark - I hated it even as a practice amp. Looks cute, though. Sounds stiff and awful.
2. Orange Dark Terror - farts out when dimed. Not so loud. Not tight. Fuzzy.
I guess I don’t like Orange sound...
3. Kinda Strymon Riverside - honky and strange sounding for me and my setup. These mids are a nightmare to eq out.. Sometimes I like it.., Yes I am strange ;-)
4. Poontang Boomerang - delay by Steel Panther. As much as I like [email protected] Melter, I hate that delay pedal. Noisy and strange/intrusive. I am spoiled by Strymon delays..
5. EVH 5153 LBX (1st gen) - not loud enough for band playing, very noisy, honky mids, unpleasant, nasal tone. Pots with pops and crackles. Returned it within 3 days.
6. Boss Katana 100 combo (1st gen) - lots of tweaking and using hidden amps to achieve passable tones at best. I swapped the speaker but it helped just a bit.
7. Kinda underwhelmed with Seymour Duncan Powerstage 170 - really lifeless and stiff sounding power amp. Together with HX Stomp is Tweak City.


----------



## Emperoff (May 30, 2021)

*Mesa Boogie Triaxis
*
I loved the thing as a studio preamp, but never actually tried it into an actual poweramp+cab setup until today.

I can't tell you how disappointed I am _by not doing it sooner_. It destroyed every other piece of gear that was in that room (that includes our eardrums). Holy shit...

So yeah, my gear is also severely dissappointed by its owner


----------



## budda (May 30, 2021)

@Wolfhorsky most amps fart out when dimed. A good power amp for modellers is neutral - if you want tube attributes, best to buy a tube power amp.


----------



## Thaeon (May 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> *Mesa Boogie Triaxis
> *
> I loved the thing as a studio preamp, but never actually tried it into an actual poweramp+cab setup until today.
> 
> ...




God... The Triaxis is such an insane piece of gear. There’s not much that stands up next to it.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (May 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> *Mesa Boogie Triaxis
> *
> I loved the thing as a studio preamp, but never actually tried it into an actual poweramp+cab setup until today.
> 
> ...



Yo pair it up with a Mesa Strategy! Oooof! Enough to get sued by the whole neighborhood.


----------



## TheBlackBard (May 30, 2021)

This is going to be weird, but when I bought my first tube amp. It was a Bugera 333XL Infinium. After all I'd heard about how good tube amps, and how heavy Bugera's could get, I was left in disappointment. First day, popped a fuse, second day, power tube went out. A few days later, a 6505+ 120 head came in and I traded the Bugera and some cash towards it. Now THAT'S what the fuck people were talking about. Still have that head 9 years later, and recently started using an EQ in the loop when I thought about changing my flavor of amp. That EQ made sure it's going to stay.


----------



## jjcor (May 30, 2021)

As far as gear I hated the PRS Archon. The amp sims of it with the Helix sounded better than the actual amp. 

And my most hated guitar was Mayones Reguis 7. The no arm contour sucked for how big the body was. I like other flat top guitars but couldn’t vibe with Mayones. Maybe one day I’ll try a Reguis core or Duvell.


----------



## BenjaminW (May 31, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> *Mesa Boogie Triaxis
> *
> I loved the thing as a studio preamp, but never actually tried it into an actual poweramp+cab setup until today.
> 
> ...


What input in the back would you plug in the cabinets to for the Triaxis? Sorry if this is a dumb question btw


----------



## Wolfhorsky (May 31, 2021)

budda said:


> @Wolfhorsky most amps fart out when dimed. A good power amp for modellers is neutral - if you want tube attributes, best to buy a tube power amp.


I’ve bought that SD PS170 as a power amp for my hx stomp. Underwhelmed with the result.


----------



## Emperoff (May 31, 2021)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Yo pair it up with a Mesa Strategy! Oooof! Enough to get sued by the whole neighborhood.



The biggest irony is that my bandmate has the Mesa OS 412 cab and the 2:90 poweramp, since he wanted a Triaxis ring from the beginnning. But I still haven't managed to try it into his rig because his lazy ass won't carry the 2:90 to our rehearsal place! 



BenjaminW said:


> What input in the back would you plug in the cabinets to for the Triaxis? Sorry if this is a dumb question btw



Not sure if I inderstand your question. The only input the Triaxis has in the back is the guitar input.

If you mean outputs, you can't connect it directly to a cab. You need a poweramp and connect the cabs from the poweramp outs that match the cab impedance. You should use the Triaxis line outs for this. Also, the Triaxis has a direct recording out, which is meant to go direct to mixer (with a rudimentary cab sim). Never used it, since regular out with impulses is way better.


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## 4Eyes (May 31, 2021)

Duncans SH4/SH2 - I got it as tried and tested combination for rock/metal for my custom guitar as they were used by most of the brands if they used passive pickups at that time. they sounded pretty meh IMO


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## Legion (May 31, 2021)

Dimarzio Dominion. Everyone was singing its praises so much I thought I couldn't go wrong with it. Turns out, in my already middy guitar, that pickup was all mids and nothing else. Palm mutes sounded anemic, and the top end sparkle was gone. I couldn't stand it.


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## TimSE (May 31, 2021)

Mesa Boogie amps. Any of them, at least when in my hands  I assume its me just having no clue how to dial these things in but I just cant get an enjoyable tone from them. Its always too much flubby lows and too-sharp top. 
Like the sound of tearing paper to my ears. Rip me


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## KnightBrolaire (May 31, 2021)

TimSE said:


> Mesa Boogie amps. Any of them, at least when in my hands  I assume its me just having no clue how to dial these things in but I just cant get an enjoyable tone from them. Its always too much flubby lows and too-sharp top.
> Like the sound of tearing paper to my ears. Rip me


Which specific mesas have you tried?


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## TimSE (May 31, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Which specific mesas have you tried?



Single rec, Dual rec and MkV


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## VESmedic (Jun 1, 2021)

Far and away, the SLO. What an overrated crock of shit for anything other than 90s rock and leads. And even then, I can make 8 of my other amps sound better for it. Huge pass on that bloated no low end thing.


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## Bearitone (Jun 1, 2021)

Port City OS vertical 212.
So bassy, so boomy, uncontrolled low end. Couldn’t wrap my head around the hype at all. I avoid ported cabs since


----------



## oracles (Jun 1, 2021)

I've owned and played a lot of stuff I didn't gel with, but the standouts for me are:

Amps: 
Every Recto. Tons of my favourite records have had one on there, but in the room, I don't think there's an amp I've hated more than a recto. The only amp I remember vividly hating even nearly as much is the VH4. The Stiletto is hands down the worst amp I've ever played through. 

PRS Archon. Granted this was an early model, but it was like PRS took a 5150 and tried their hardest to make everything worse, and they succeeded. Unusable effects loop. 

Diezel VH4. I read nothing but praise for years about them, finally found one to try and it was absolutely awful. 

Guitars:
A 2014/2015 Skervesen Raptor. Probably to this day the worst built guitar I've ever seen in person. Misaligned bridge, abysmal fretwork, separating neck laminates, tool marks galore, two stripped tuners, pickup routes you could swim in, and lifting binding. 

Aside from not gelling with the endurneck, I don't think I've encountered a more consistently poorly manufactured brand than Strandberg. QC issues everywhere. Id say the Washberg I had briefly was 10 shades of awful, but the stain kept lifting off every time I touched it. 

Pickups:
Every Lace pickup ever. 
BKP Aristides Customs, Juggernauts, Trilogy Suite, Aftermath.

There's definitely more, but these are the first to come to mind when I think of the worst gear I've seen/had.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 1, 2021)

TimSE said:


> Single rec, Dual rec and MkV


If you're using a Mark V and the lows are too flubby then you're not dialing it in right. The bass needs to be either off or as close to 0 as possible, and the treble needs to be set fairly high. Then you do the actual sculpting with the 5-band. 

I can see the highs being grating on the Mark V if you have the 2 treble sliders set too high though, otherwise the biggest complaint with the Mark V seems to be it sounds a bit too boxy and midrangey rather than too flubby or bright.


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## efiltsohg (Jun 1, 2021)

TimSE said:


> Mesa Boogie amps. Any of them, at least when in my hands  I assume its me just having no clue how to dial these things in but I just cant get an enjoyable tone from them. Its always too much flubby lows and too-sharp top.
> Like the sound of tearing paper to my ears. Rip me



kind of agree, F series are the only mesas I've found to be remotely plug-and-play



Wolfhorsky said:


> I was dissapointed or underwhelmed with:
> I guess I don’t like Orange sound...



The Orange sound is big iron and big glass, not tiny baby micro amps, don't be put off by toys any more than you'd be put off Fender from a frontman 10


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## TimSE (Jun 1, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If you're using a Mark V and the lows are too flubby then you're not dialing it in right. The bass needs to be either off or as close to 0 as possible, and the treble needs to be set fairly high. Then you do the actual sculpting with the 5-band.
> 
> I can see the highs being grating on the Mark V if you have the 2 treble sliders set too high though, otherwise the biggest complaint with the Mark V seems to be it sounds a bit too boxy and midrangey rather than too flubby or bright.



To be fair, this was like a decade ago for the mkV and was totally me not really knowing how to use the amps at the time. Given one now to play with might give much better results as I know how to find the info to dial these things in. But still, I think I just dont like the "Mesa Sound" of that type of gain. 




efiltsohg said:


> kind of agree, F series are the only mesas I've found to be remotely plug-and-play



Ive heard good things about the Fs and I think Ds so I would enjoy having a play with one. I want to like them! would love a Mesa phase but nothing yet. Not even a wiggle.


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## EmaDaCuz (Jun 3, 2021)

I would say Laney IRT Studio.

I bought it back in 2014 and tried to love it, but ended up selling it eventually. It had great potential with lots of interesting functionalities, great EQ, integrated boost but I found that it sounded good only through the matched 1x12" cab. With any other cab, even good quality EVH or Mesa, there was no oomph and a very harsh unpleasant distortion.
Also, the kind of distortion is a bit meh. Good for "heavy metal", but too much for rock and too little for brootz. Its bigger brothers (IRT60 and 120) sound great, though.


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## protest (Jun 3, 2021)

Mesa Mark III. 

I tried 3 times with 3 different stripes. I like all the other Marks I've owned and tried better.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 3, 2021)

protest said:


> Mesa Mark III.
> 
> I tried 3 times with 3 different stripes. I like all the other Marks I've owned and tried better.



There's something about the Mark III that sounds different than the rest. I always felt it had this slight modded Jose Marshall sound to it.


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## Emperoff (Jun 3, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's something about the Mark III that sounds different than the rest. I always felt it had this slight modded Jose Marshall sound to it.



I haven't tried the real thing, but from the Triaxis modes (IIc+, IV and III), the III was definetely the most different and sorta "british" sounding of the bunch.


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## Kyle Jordan (Jun 3, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There's something about the Mark III that sounds different than the rest. I always felt it had this slight modded Jose Marshall sound to it.



Yep, I feel the exact same way. I liked that less about the Mark IIIs initially, but over the years, I've found myself gravitating more towards that tone. Might explain why Lead 2 Red on the Triaxis or it's sims nearly always ends up being my go to. I can usually get really good tones without using an EQ in front even with my 8 string.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jun 3, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I haven't tried the real thing, but from the Triaxis modes (IIc+, IV and III), the III was definetely the most different and sorta "british" sounding of the bunch.





Kyle Jordan said:


> Yep, I feel the exact same way. I liked that less about the Mark IIIs initially, but over the years, I've found myself gravitating more towards that tone. Might explain why Lead 2 Red on the Triaxis or it's sims nearly always ends up being my go to.



I guess it's to do with hot rodded/boosted Marshalls being the top dog around the time so they tweaked it to be that way. I love the 3 but if you're dead set on the classic IIc+/4/5 sound then it probs won't be your thing.


----------



## protest (Jun 3, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I guess it's to do with hot rodded/boosted Marshalls being the top dog around the time so they tweaked it to be that way. I love the 3 but if you're dead set on the classic IIc+/4/5 sound then it probs won't be your thing.



Yep, I agree on both points. I think more so with the IV/V because they're definitely more modern sounding.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jun 3, 2021)

protest said:


> Mesa Mark III.
> 
> I tried 3 times with 3 different stripes. I like all the other Marks I've owned and tried better.



Too bright, right?


----------



## Alex79 (Jun 3, 2021)

Laney IRT. It’s not bad, just not what I wanted. 

Yamaha THR10x, the metal amp for your desk that was totally hyped when it was new. It didn’t live up to that. 

BKP Holy Diver. In fairness, I probably expected the ultimate guitar pickup which everything good from the JB and more, more, more. Surprisingly soft and warm overall. Not good for the guitar it was supposed to go in.


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## protest (Jun 3, 2021)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Too bright, right?



Yep. Balancing the presence, treble, and high end sliders to get the tightness and saturation I was used to on a Mark was impossible for me without making the amp too bright. A lot of people have this problem with the V, but I've found ways around that which I tried on the III and it didn't work out.


----------



## Chebax (Jun 4, 2021)

oracles said:


> A 2014/2015 Skervesen Raptor. Probably to this day the worst built guitar I've ever seen in person. Misaligned bridge, abysmal fretwork, separating neck laminates, tool marks galore, two stripped tuners, pickup routes you could swim in, and lifting binding.


I had an early Raptor too (2013, I believe). My experience was very much like you described.

But the funny thing is that I ended up with a 2020 Raptor 7FF and it happens to be of the best built guitars I’ve ever owned (and I’ve owned lots). Kudos to Skervesen for the dramatic quality improvement, I’m still impressed.

So stay away from the old ones, but new Skervesens are gold (IMHO, of course, YMMV).


----------



## Solomon Monagle (Jun 4, 2021)

Werecow said:


> A Gibson Les Paul Studio.



Can relate, my old studio was rubbish. Weak palm mutes, really struggled to handle any tuning beyond E standard even with proper pro setups, and worst of all a weak ass truss rod that would warp at the slightest temperature change and ruin playing beyond the 9th fret. Selling it was amazingly satisfying though.


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## Solomon Monagle (Jun 4, 2021)

Can agree with this, Neural IR cabs are flat and lifeless. And the plugins themselves are grossly overrated - shoutout to every home recording metal band in my area who insist on recording through it atm, your tones are GReaT.


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## Matt08642 (Jun 4, 2021)

Solomon Monagle said:


> Can agree with this, Neural IR cabs are flat and lifeless. And the plugins themselves are grossly overrated - shoutout to every home recording metal band in my area who insist on recording through it atm, your tones are GReaT.



I genuinely don't understand how people use the Neural built in IRs for the plugins. I never made it past a few minutes jamming with a NDSP plugin till I turned off their cab section and used my own IRs, though that might just be because I'm very used to them.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jun 4, 2021)

Solomon Monagle said:


> Can agree with this, Neural IR cabs are flat and lifeless. And the plugins themselves are grossly overrated - shoutout to every home recording metal band in my area who insist on recording through it atm, your tones are GReaT.


I've had so many people try to sell me on Neural's shit...and I go listen to what they recorded and think "Yep..none for me please "


----------



## possumkiller (Jun 4, 2021)

Digital stuff. I just can't gel with it. I got used to that immediate reaction playing normal amps. Even a solid state amp feels better to me. Digital FX on a normal amp is ok. I just can't do the full digital amp thing. It was always hard for me to pin the exact reason why it didn't feel right but then I was reading an interview with a shuttle pilot that was previously an Air Force test pilot. He says that the fly by wire system in the shuttle has a distinctly different feel than the analog controls of planes he flew before. He says that when he moves the controls on the shuttle, he can tell that he is talking to the computer and then the computer is moving the controls. It feels the same way for me with digital amps and amp sim software. I can get good tones but the feeling of disconnect between my playing and what comes out of the speakers is really off putting.


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## SubsonicDoom99 (Jun 4, 2021)

TheBlackBard said:


> This is going to be weird, but when I bought my first tube amp. It was a Bugera 333XL Infinium. After all I'd heard about how good tube amps, and how heavy Bugera's could get, I was left in disappointment. First day, popped a fuse, second day, power tube went out. A few days later, a 6505+ 120 head came in and I traded the Bugera and some cash towards it. Now THAT'S what the fuck people were talking about. Still have that head 9 years later, and recently started using an EQ in the loop when I thought about changing my flavor of amp. That EQ made sure it's going to stay.



Unfortunately not weird or uncommon regarding Bugera because that would be my biggest regret too I think, or at least one of them, as I had a bad experience with the 333XL amp. I thought it sounded brilliant but it didn't last long. That company was notorious for their amps breaking down soon after purchase. I was told they fixed that later on but I was too hesitant to try and sink any more money into it just to find out. Wound up going with a JetCity 100 watt head, which I was nervous about at first too, but that's lasted me years and other than swapping out for some better tubes, it's been a killer amp so I'm glad I made that choice.


----------



## Solomon Monagle (Jun 4, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> I genuinely don't understand how people use the Neural built in IRs for the plugins. I never made it past a few minutes jamming with a NDSP plugin till I turned off their cab section and used my own IRs, though that might just be because I'm very used to them.



Fully agree with this! out of curiosity, what IR's do you run?


----------



## Matt08642 (Jun 4, 2021)

Solomon Monagle said:


> Fully agree with this! out of curiosity, what IR's do you run?



My go-to for high gain is OwnHammer 412 Trad (Specifically OH 412 TRAD V30-MB1 L 599B). Basic V30 IR but sounds great with everything I've tested, especially my 6505MH head. Definitely a must for all the Neural plugins I've tested as well.


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## Solomon Monagle (Jun 4, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> My go-to for high gain is OwnHammer 412 Trad (Specifically OH 412 TRAD V30-MB1 L 599B). Basic V30 IR but sounds great with everything I've tested, especially my 6505MH head. Definitely a must for all the Neural plugins I've tested as well.



Nice. I haven't bothered exploring too much beyond a few ENGL cab IR's (all about those low mids) but same principle applies, a solid V30 ir.


----------



## Symo (Jul 16, 2021)

PRS Silver Sky.
I own 2 CS strats a FSR USA and a Billy Corgan (awesome strat) and thought despite it being a Mayer designed thing I ‘should’ like it. At this point I should 2 other guitars I own are pre 1991 customs which I bought 2nd hand they are great, the silver sky sucks balls. Somehow it just sat wrong on my body, the build quality is not up there with my two other PRS, and thought it sounded flat. Sent it back a week later got a full refund as someone didn’t want to wait.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2021)

Did I ever bring up the EMG 81X? Because EMG 81X. 

The 81 is my favorite metal bridge pickup. But I hate the 81X with a passion. Took what makes the 81 great and neuters it.
OTOH I don't really like the 85 in the bridge. Too much pickup for the bridge position... Yet I fucking LOVE the 85X. It's like they took the 85, toned it down a lot, and gave it a brighter, sparkly high end. The 85X is how I wish the 81X sounded.


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## Matt08642 (Jul 16, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Did I ever bring up the EMG 81X? Because EMG 81X.
> 
> The 81 is my favorite metal bridge pickup. But I hate the 81X with a passion. Took what makes the 81 great and neuters it.
> OTOH I don't really like the 85 in the bridge. Too much pickup for the bridge position... Yet I fucking LOVE the 85X. It's like they took the 85, toned it down a lot, and gave it a brighter, sparkly high end. The 85X is how I wish the 81X sounded.



I avoid this whole pickup hunt by just leaving my 81 in the bridge like the lord intended


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2021)

Matt08642 said:


> I avoid this whole pickup hunt by just leaving my 81 in the bridge like the lord intended



I try to, but I love to try new things all the time. Always curious about trying different stuff. I had to cave and try the 85X/89X because I was told really good things about it. Lo and behold, it's great. I save the 81 for brutal shit while the 85X is the more "versatile" pickup. I got the 89X in a H-S-S Strat right now so I can still have all the proper Strat sounds


----------



## Werecow (Jul 16, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Did I ever bring up the EMG 81X? Because EMG 81X.
> 
> The 81 is my favorite metal bridge pickup. But I hate the 81X with a passion. Took what makes the 81 great and neuters it.
> OTOH I don't really like the 85 in the bridge. Too much pickup for the bridge position... Yet I fucking LOVE the 85X. It's like they took the 85, toned it down a lot, and gave it a brighter, sparkly high end. The 85X is how I wish the 81X sounded.


Are you me?  I went through exactly the same experience. I bought an ESP EII Horizon that came with the 85 in the bridge. Everything felt and sounded flubby and congested, with no attack in the palm mutes. I tried to order an 81 for it, but accidentally ordered the 81X instead, that sucked as well 
So that was the latest unintended pickup adventure i've had, and i'm done with experimenting now. It's either the 81 for actives or Bare Knuckle Juggernauts for passive.


----------



## neurosis (Jul 16, 2021)

Symo said:


> PRS Silver Sky.
> I own 2 CS strats a FSR USA and a Billy Corgan (awesome strat) and thought despite it being a Mayer designed thing I ‘should’ like it. At this point I should 2 other guitars I own are pre 1991 customs which I bought 2nd hand they are great, the silver sky sucks balls. Somehow it just sat wrong on my body, the build quality is not up there with my two other PRS, and thought it sounded flat. Sent it back a week later got a full refund as someone didn’t want to wait.



Curious what your other 2 PRS. I have 3 and they are all completely different from each other. My oldest is heavy and feels more like a Les Paul. The new ones are light and sound punchier. Out of the 3 the latest I got, the DW sig is the best in terms of build quality and sound. It easily beats my CU24 and 22. There's a lot of talk about how PRS is very consistent and I think that's probably true for samples of the same model but I feel they make tweaks over the years and the models vary greatly despite looking the same.

The Corgan Strat is awesome. There's not many of them around though.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 16, 2021)

The biggest gear letdown wasn’t amps or guitars, but a pair of Swamp Thangs. 

Those have to be darkest, muddiest, unclear speakers I’ve ever heard. Totally useless.

Another huge letdown was the Orange 2x12 cab. I don’t know if it’s the thick weave grill material, but I couldn’t believe how muffled those bastards sound (i went through 2 cabs just to see if the first one was somehow defective). 

Oddly enough, i actually loved the cab for cleans. But as soon as i kicked on some distortion? It sounded like a thick blanket was covering it. Never again. Lol.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Jul 16, 2021)

Blackstar. Never again. Felt like a tube amp from wal mart. All those knobs and buttons and still managed to sound boring and generic. Still sorta feel bad for the blooz dad I traded an HT60 212 to for a MM HD130 212. 

I could've given him two of those things and still come out on top of that trade.


----------



## Crungy (Jul 16, 2021)

Mine was a Line6 M13. It's not total crap, but I was expecting there to be something more modern to it with the delays and verbs. I felt like it had a selection of effects from late 90's early 2000's multi effects... I'd almost take an RP7 over it.

That said, it's not crappy. It's well made and there are a lot of good basics in it. If you need a lot of the basics for not a lot of money and don't mind it's giant footprint it's good.


----------



## laxu (Jul 16, 2021)

Crungy said:


> Mine was a Line6 M13. It's not total crap, but I was expecting there to be something more modern to it with the delays and verbs. I felt like it had a selection of effects from late 90's early 2000's multi effects... I'd almost take an RP7 over it.
> 
> That said, it's not crappy. It's well made and there are a lot of good basics in it. If you need a lot of the basics for not a lot of money and don't mind it's giant footprint it's good.


The overdrive/distortions were not worth much but I liked the rest of the effects and it was very easy to use. Had one over 10 years ago.


----------



## VESmedic (Jul 16, 2021)

SLO by freakin far… big, big oooof.

No, it wasn’t a crate practice amp obviously, but it just didn’t even come close to living up to the hype after wanting one for almost 20 years. Great cleans, killer leads, abysmal for anything else, and absolutely terrible low end.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 16, 2021)

VESmedic said:


> SLO by freakin far… big, big oooof.
> 
> No, it wasn’t a crate practice amp obviously, but it just didn’t even come close to living up to the hype after wanting one for almost 20 years. Great cleans, killer leads, abysmal for anything else, and absolutely terrible low end.



I'm trying to figure out why people claim SLOs smoke the 5150 in terms of tightness and clarity. Every time I've heard the SLO, it sounds pretty damn woofy in the low end, even compared to an OG 5150. It nails that late '80s, early '90s hard rock/hair metal tone, but... Eh?


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Jul 16, 2021)

Yeaaaah...SLOs are holy grail amps if you're really into that 80s sound. Rich, harmonic, and loud. But it's a rock amp just by itself.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 16, 2021)

Actually, my most recent regret was the FM3. I was completely underwhelmed by it. I even tried it through different power amps, but never had any luck.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s by far the best modeler I’ve ever played, and very amp like in a lot of ways. Some of the amp models are excellent, while others are mediocre at best.

But expecting a digital modeler to produce the same wall of sound, kick to the dick, recto roar that only a 150w triple rectifier can deliver was a bit foolish on my end.

Ironically, i was even thinking about picking up another one, giving it another chance, but my instincts tell me I’d end up with the same results.


----------



## Symo (Jul 17, 2021)

neurosis said:


> Curious what your other 2 PRS. I have 3 and they are all completely different from each other. My oldest is heavy and feels more like a Les Paul. The new ones are light and sound punchier. Out of the 3 the latest I got, the DW sig is the best in terms of build quality and sound. It easily beats my CU24 and 22. There's a lot of talk about how PRS is very consistent and I think that's probably true for samples of the same model but I feel they make tweaks over the years and the models vary greatly despite looking the same.
> 
> The Corgan Strat is awesome. There's not many of them around though.



both 24s artist packs one is a 10, way cheaper second hand. The corgan will never go for sale.

Mind you loving the Ormsby, might sell some gear for a custom 7 from a British company daemoness look good as do carillion


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 17, 2021)

Mad Professor Loud N Proud was probably the worst purchase ever. Bought it to try it as a Marshall Preamp into a Two Notes Cab M. It was not the style of Marshall I enjoy or thought it'd be, and it sounded like absolute shit. Utterly terrible pedal. Only pedal, as a matter of fact, that I've ever returned for sound reasons alone. 

Bought two Tech 21 Character Series British pedals, and have had it in my setup since. It is definitely the sound I've spent thousands on trying to get from a pedal for ease of moving reasons. The rest all sounded alright to awful, but the Tech 21 British is the one.


----------



## Reet (Jul 17, 2021)

BKP Juggernauts stand out as something super hyped that i was really disappointed with. Mine caused more feedback than anything else i've had and pinch haromics were way harder than normal. Also i love 5153's but every 6505 i've played sounds awful in the room. On an album its huge and been on some of my favorite albums but man what a mess to my ears in the room.


----------



## Spinedriver (Jul 18, 2021)

Crungy said:


> Mine was a Line6 M13. It's not total crap, but I was expecting there to be something more modern to it with the delays and verbs. I felt like it had a selection of effects from late 90's early 2000's multi effects... I'd almost take an RP7 over it.
> 
> That said, it's not crappy. It's well made and there are a lot of good basics in it. If you need a lot of the basics for not a lot of money and don't mind it's giant footprint it's good.


 
You're not far off. The effects in the M13 were taken from the Pod XT series and that was first put out in 2002. I don't know when the M13 came out but it literally was just a Pod XT minus the amp sims and each effect had it's own display screen. Since I already have a few different amp modelers, I bought an HX FX board and I think it sounds pretty decent (mind you I got mine for about $300 less than it is new, so that helped deciding to get one quite a bit).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 18, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> You're not far off. The effects in the M13 were taken from the Pod XT series and that was first put out in 2002. I don't know when the M13 came out but it literally was just a Pod XT minus the amp sims and each effect had it's own display screen. Since I already have a few different amp modelers, I bought an HX FX board and I think it sounds pretty decent (mind you I got mine for about $300 less than it is new, so that helped deciding to get one quite a bit).



I thought the M13 was released a year after the POD HD, but I'm wrong. A year *before*. The M13 was released in 2008 and the POD HD in 2009. SO yeah, being XT/X3 modeling makes sense.


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 18, 2021)

Reet said:


> BKP Juggernauts stand out as something super hyped that i was really disappointed with. Mine caused more feedback than anything else i've had and pinch haromics were way harder than normal.



Yup. I noticed the same behaviour with pinch harmonics compared to my other guitars.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 18, 2021)

That reminds me, i had bought some Bareknuckle Warpig pickups, and the bass was so over the top that they were pretty much useless. Aside from that, the tone was just very generic, and ugly sounding.

I’ll never bother with Bareknuckle again.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 18, 2021)

Any jackson from later than 1995, I've hated every single one I've touched. Had a little with a 90s MIJ, very impressive. Had the 90s fusion I had been true HSS I wouldn't have sold it. Nothing feels the same as those old ones and new JS stuff is hot flaming garbage. 

EMGs that aren't the 57 or the 81 in the neck. Everything else just is so clangy or scooped. Do not like. The 81 in my ESP sounded good but that was such a dark and thick guitar it didn't work too well for the COB riffing I bought it for. 

Generally disappointed by Duncans. I'm a distortion fan, the JB is pretty cool, but anything else is blehh and Duncan designed stuff is pretty shit.

Loved my 6505, didn't like the recto I traded it for. 

Gibson and Epiphone stuff just doesn't have any life to it. I don't really like strats, the schecter NJs kick their ass any day. Love teles and jazzmasters tho. Not an EVH guitars fan and I really really don't like the 5153, it sounds nothing like a 6505+ even if they're both 5150 derivatives and that is not good. 

Brainworx Engl Savage 120 sounds nothing like a savage, just woofy low gain bullshit. Only sim I own that I don't like. I love saturated and decently tight, it does neither. The rockerverb 100 sim has more gain and is tighter. 

Dimarzio crunch lab is all smooth and boom. Nope.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 18, 2021)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> EMGs that aren't the 57 or the 81 in the neck. Everything else just is so clangy or scooped. Do not like. The 81 in my ESP sounded good but that was such a dark and thick guitar it didn't work too well for the COB riffing I bought it for.


Probably a typo here, as I doubt anyone is doing COB rhythm parts on the neck pickup.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 18, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> The biggest gear letdown wasn’t amps or guitars, but a pair of Swamp Thangs.
> 
> Those have to be darkest, muddiest, unclear speakers I’ve ever heard. Totally useless.
> 
> ...



I can almost guarantee that you didn’t break your swamp thangs in enough. They sound all sorts of weird before they’ve had at least several hours at medium to high volume.


----------



## Shask (Jul 18, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Did I ever bring up the EMG 81X? Because EMG 81X.
> 
> The 81 is my favorite metal bridge pickup. But I hate the 81X with a passion. Took what makes the 81 great and neuters it.
> OTOH I don't really like the 85 in the bridge. Too much pickup for the bridge position... Yet I fucking LOVE the 85X. It's like they took the 85, toned it down a lot, and gave it a brighter, sparkly high end. The 85X is how I wish the 81X sounded.


I keep thinking about replacing an 81TW with a regular 81, because I swear it doesnt sound nearly as good as the plain old 81 sounding.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 18, 2021)

Shask said:


> I keep thinking about replacing an 81TW with a regular 81, because I swear it doesnt sound nearly as good as the plain old 81 sounding.



It does sound different from what I can tell. It's a bit smoother.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 18, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Probably a typo here, as I doubt anyone is doing COB rhythm parts on the neck pickup.



I just didn't specify, the bridge was still incredibly dark and congested with low mids. Like it barely had the signature 81 high end, it was great in standard but the instant I hit that low C it was mud.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 18, 2021)

youngthrasher9 said:


> I can almost guarantee that you didn’t break your swamp thangs in enough. They sound all sorts of weird before they’ve had at least several hours at medium to high volume.


Maybe, but I spent at least a solid week trying to warm up to them, and they still sounded like shit to me in the end.

Then again, I’ve yet to find an Eminence speaker i actually liked. The Governers were probably my favorite, but even then, they were just OK.


----------



## BenjaminW (Jul 18, 2021)

This technically doesn't count because I only played this at Guitar Center today, but the neck on the EVH Striped Series Frankie they had in stock was kind of a let down. The neck profile was too flat for me. Sounded fucking amazing though!


----------



## TheBlackBard (Jul 19, 2021)

youngthrasher9 said:


> I can almost guarantee that you didn’t break your swamp thangs in enough. They sound all sorts of weird before they’ve had at least several hours at medium to high volume.




They seem to have an extended bass response when palm muting. Has that been your experience, almost like the palm mute rings out for a few more seconds?


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 19, 2021)

TheBlackBard said:


> They seem to have an extended bass response when palm muting. Has that been your experience, almost like the palm mute rings out for a few more seconds?


They have more bass response in general IMO, but if it muddy or crowded it’s probably needing break in time IMHO. I can’t really describe the sound of mine out of the box well, but I’d say cardboardy, brittle, and still bassy. AFAIK each speaker probably sounds a little different during the break in period.


----------



## TheBlackBard (Jul 19, 2021)

youngthrasher9 said:


> They have more bass response in general IMO, but if it muddy or crowded it’s probably needing break in time IMHO. I can’t really describe the sound of mine out of the box well, but I’d say cardboardy, brittle, and still bassy. AFAIK each speaker probably sounds a little different during the break in period.




Yeah I just got a new one to pair with my other one and though I know it isn't at its peak, the thing still handles my B standard PRS SE 277 really well, especially Nazgul loaded.


----------



## LiveOVErdrive (Jul 19, 2021)

TedEH said:


> For all the praise the Marks get for "versatility", I find that word usually ends up meaning "a usable range of gain" rather than multiple characters of gain. It does two things: clean, and Mark-sounding gain. If you like those things, you'll like the amp. If you like Marshalls and 5150s, it doesn't do that.
> 
> Two disappointments come to mind:
> 
> ...


I love my mark 5 but damn yeah they really don't feel THAT varsatile. They have a lot of controls but it's less like having a bunch of options and more like having to enter a combination on a lock. 

I still love the three tones I do get out of it though. Don't get me wrong.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jul 20, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> Actually, my most recent regret was the FM3. I was completely underwhelmed by it. I even tried it through different power amps, but never had any luck.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, it’s by far the best modeler I’ve ever played, and very amp like in a lot of ways. Some of the amp models are excellent, while others are mediocre at best.
> 
> ...




Just curious, did you run it through a good FX loop in an amp? I feel like that’s the best way to introduce yourself to modelers if you’re used to playing real amps. That takes away the live sound vs recorded sound aspect and gives a much better indication of what the modeler sounds like vs the amp(s) you’re comparing it to. 

With all that said, nothing wrong with just not liking something.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 20, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Just curious, did you run it through a good FX loop in an amp? I feel like that’s the best way to introduce yourself to modelers if you’re used to playing real amps. That takes away the live sound vs recorded sound aspect and gives a much better indication of what the modeler sounds like vs the amp(s) you’re comparing it to.
> 
> With all that said, nothing wrong with just not liking something.


I first ran it through my 6505’s loop. It sounded fine, but i really wanted to run it through a dedicated power amp, so i bought the SD Powerstage 170, which did make a minor improvement.

Overall, it just sounded and felt like an emulation of the real deal, but how can i fault it when that’s technically what a modeler is? 

Don’t get me wrong, i thought the FM3 sounded great for the most part, was pretty easy to operate, and was really the best floor modeler I’ve ever tried. I also thought it got crazy close to some amps (the 5150 was one of the most convincing ones). 

I just had ridiculously high hopes for it and was honestly expecting it to sound and feel just like my recto. I think the tone was somewhat in the ballpark, but the feel was completely different.

That being said, I’m honestly re-considering buying the FM3 again, as it could be the key to kicking my unhealthy tube amp obsession. Lol.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jul 20, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> I first ran it through my 6505’s loop. It sounded fine, but i really wanted to run it through a dedicated power amp, so i bought the SD Powerstage 170, which did make a minor improvement.
> 
> Overall, it just sounded and felt like an emulation of the real deal, but how can i fault it when that’s technically what a modeler is?
> 
> ...



Gotcha. Yeah the FM3 didn’t exactly kill my GAS but it along with the Stealth kinda have I think. Kinda. I think.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 20, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Gotcha. Yeah the FM3 didn’t exactly kill my GAS but it along with the Stealth kinda have I think. Kinda. I think.


I gotta ask then, why didn’t the FM3 kill your GAS?


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jul 20, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> I gotta ask then, why didn’t the FM3 kill your GAS?



A gearwhore gonna gearwhore


----------



## PuriPuriPrisoner (Jul 20, 2021)

Mine is either the Satan 100 or a Caparison TAT Special 7 I had. The Satan had almost no low end and sounded awful. I could not get a sound I liked out of it. The Caparison's neck was super uncomfortable (and I'm not very particular about neck profile). It was thick and blocky. It also had a Floyd so, naturally, it was missing a lot of low end resonance. That doesn't bother me too much normally but the guitar was so fucking bright and trebley. Even after changing the pickups twice, it's sound was way too brittle.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 20, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> A gearwhore gonna gearwhore


True dat!


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 20, 2021)

PuriPuriPrisoner said:


> Mine is either the Satan 100 or a Caparison TAT Special 7 I had. The Satan had almost no low end and sounded awful. I could not get a sound I liked out of it. The Caparison's neck was super uncomfortable (and I'm not very particular about neck profile). It was thick and blocky. It also had a Floyd so, naturally, it was missing a lot of low end resonance. That doesn't bother me too much normally but the guitar was so fucking bright and trebley. Even after changing the pickups twice, it's sound was way too brittle.


That surprises me about the Satan. I’ve never played one, but with a name like that you’d expect the floor to quake!


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 20, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Gotcha. Yeah the FM3 didn’t exactly kill my GAS but it along with the Stealth kinda have I think. Kinda. I think.


Just bought an FM3


----------



## nightlight (Jul 21, 2021)

I bought a Mesa Mark V:25, twice. The second time convinced me I just don't like small bottle amps. The amp had a nice tone, but it had no balls to speak of. Also, not a lot of headroom on the clean channel, and channel two would start to fart out if you went too high on the master volume. Sold both of them and swore of EL84 amps after that. 

I used to own a Victory Kraken 50. Honestly, it was unusable, the thing used to feedback if you added any mids to it. Crazy squealing even if you weren't in front of the amp or doing anything to cause it. It was just a really bad design flaw, and if you look on the web (as I did later), you'll find that tonnes of people have the same problem. Add that to the fact that the cleans weren't really clean and I sold it.

This one might surprise everybody, but a Mayones Regius 6. I traded a Triple Rec, a Soldano Avenger 50, and a Hesu 1x12 for it. I really, really regret trading those amps away, such a dumb move. The guitar itself was quite nice, just ugly as hell. Really, looking at it was like looking at a vitrified tile. So goddamn ugly. I was lucky to later be able to trade that plus a small cash top up for an OD Guitars Venus 6, which is not only a better looking guitar, but much better sounding and playing. Wasn't sad to see it go. 

The Hesu I mentioned above was the worst speaker I've tried so far, and the only one I didn't keep. The Demon speaker was just shrill as hell, and I didn't have the patience to break it in. It might have been the cab itself, just a very tiny sound. I've heard good things about the 2x12s, but this was definitely a no-no.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 21, 2021)

nightlight said:


> I bought a Mesa Mark V:25, twice. The second time convinced me I just don't like small bottle amps. The amp had a nice tone, but it had no balls to speak of. Also, not a lot of headroom on the clean channel, and channel two would start to fart out if you went too high on the master volume. Sold both of them and swore of EL84 amps after that.



One of my best buds had a Mark V25 and a Mark IV. Sold them both for a TriAxis. 

We never talked about the V25 after he sold it. But he always talks about how he regrets letting go of the IV. Like seriously, we spent like a month figuring out how to get him a good tone out of the V25 but it never happened. When he got the IV it was a night and day difference. Only reason he sold it was because he's a James/Troochi fanboy and wanted what his idols used.


----------



## nightlight (Jul 21, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> One of my best buds had a Mark V25 and a Mark IV. Sold them both for a TriAxis.
> 
> We never talked about the V25 after he sold it. But he always talks about how he regrets letting go of the IV. Like seriously, we spent like a month figuring out how to get him a good tone out of the V25 but it never happened. When he got the IV it was a night and day difference. Only reason he sold it was because he's a James/Troochi fanboy and wanted what his idols used.



The Mark V 25-watt is just too small to be used as anything other than a practice amp, IMHO. It has a nice bark, but there's no bite to it. That's a pity, because the tones are quite good, they just don't have the girth to compete with practically any larger amp. They don't sound too bad recorded, but give me a bigger amp any day.

I missed out on a Mark IV just a while ago and have been kicking myself. A Triaxis would be nice, but had heard Mesa wasn't servicing them when they failed as the parts were unobtanium, so have held off on pulling the trigger.

Seems like Mesa Boogies have been going up in price lately, as has everything else. And you can't find a lot of models like the JP2C. People like them and are holding on to them.

I really want to try a 2C+ someday, I have a feeling that it would be a fun amp to play. There's one without the EQ on it on Reverb and the guy wants almost $5k for it. Way out of my budget, but I'm sure someone will buy it. They are all the rage these days.

Wish I was prescient and bought this stuff when it was still going for cheap and still available in larger quantities.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 21, 2021)

EMGs. Dear god did I grow to hate them. Clangy, metallic, thin..just all the things I don't want in a pickup. The 81 was a nightmare so I tried switching to an 85 thinking it would help. Nope..still hated them.

Recently I got some DI tracks from someone who played a bunch of EMGs and it was still what I remembered. Even the best sounding model was the best of a bad bunch. I wouldn't buy it, but it didn't immediately make me want to stop the clip. Meh...EMGs just don't do it for me.


----------



## DeathByButterslax (Jul 21, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> EMGs. Dear god did I grow to hate them. Clangy, metallic, thin..just all the things I don't want in a pickup. The 81 was a nightmare so I tried switching to an 85 thinking it would help. Nope..still hated them.
> 
> Recently I got some DI tracks from someone who played a bunch of EMGs and it was still what I remembered. Even the best sounding model was the best of a bad bunch. I wouldn't buy it, but it didn't immediately make me want to stop the clip. Meh...EMGs just don't do it for me.


One man’s EMG is another man’s EMG, I personally love em for that Metallica tone but that’s about it


----------



## BigViolin (Jul 21, 2021)

Hannes bridge
Very cool design….wrong material. It imparts a plinky hollowness to certain frequencies in every guitar I’ve tried it in. Would rule the world built with brass and stainless…and cost $500.

BKP Warpigs
Tried in a 27” 7. Amazing how a pickup can manage to be murky, veiled and harsh all at once. Amazing.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jul 21, 2021)

@sevenfoxes Hey I forgot to mention, I didn’t particularly love the FM3 through the 6505 loop either. Doesn’t seem as transparent. Sounds great through my EVHs and the Invective though.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 21, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> @sevenfoxes Hey I forgot to mention, I didn’t particularly love the FM3 through the 6505 loop either. Doesn’t seem as transparent. Sounds great through my EVHs and the Invective though.


Yeah, the SD Powerstage 170 was definitely a noticeable upgrade to a more “pure” tone. I felt like i could hear what the amp models were supposed to sound like a lot better.


----------



## BMFan30 (Jul 21, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> EMGs. Dear god did I grow to hate them. Clangy, metallic, thin..just all the things I don't want in a pickup. The 81 was a nightmare so I tried switching to an 85 thinking it would help. Nope..still hated them.
> 
> Recently I got some DI tracks from someone who played a bunch of EMGs and it was still what I remembered. Even the best sounding model was the best of a bad bunch. I wouldn't buy it, but it didn't immediately make me want to stop the clip. Meh...EMGs just don't do it for me.


What did you like more? Because I see so much love for EMG's from so many people.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 21, 2021)

EMG’s have their place, but I’ll take Blackouts (especially Mick Thomson’s) over EMGs any day of the week.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 21, 2021)

BMFan30 said:


> What did you like more? Because I see so much love for EMG's from so many people.


I don't even remember, honestly because it was the best of a shitty bunch...but still not something I want.


----------



## c7spheres (Jul 21, 2021)

EMG's are awesome. Well at least the 707 is. SO there!


----------



## CanserDYI (Jul 21, 2021)

I fucking hate this set of EMGs I have...


But my biggest gear dissappointment was a Gibson. I grew up playing a Metal core af LP custom Epi, and it got stolen after a gigm years later my wife said go ahead buy a Gibson. Man that brand new Gibson wasn't worth even what I paid for the Epiphone. Never again will I give that shit company a dime.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 21, 2021)

EMGs are great. Stop putting them super close to the strings, then they'll be good for more than just Metallica.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 22, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> EMGs are great. Stop putting them super close to the strings, then they'll be good for more than just Metallica.


They are great...for the trash


----------



## WarMachine (Jul 22, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> EMGs. Dear god did I grow to hate them. Clangy, metallic, thin..just all the things I don't want in a pickup. The 81 was a nightmare so I tried switching to an 85 thinking it would help. Nope..still hated them.
> 
> Recently I got some DI tracks from someone who played a bunch of EMGs and it was still what I remembered. Even the best sounding model was the best of a bad bunch. I wouldn't buy it, but it didn't immediately make me want to stop the clip. Meh...EMGs just don't do it for me.


Agreed. However my first pup swap was the 81/85 set and I realized after getting my first "good" guitar that the guitar build quality itself far outweighs what pickups I had. But, on the same token I also realized that those same EMGs made a cheaper guitar _*sound*_ more expensive.


----------



## TedEH (Jul 22, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> EMG’s have their place, but I’ll take Blackouts (especially Mick Thomson’s) over EMGs any day of the week.


I dunno if I just had a bad set or something, but Blackouts were the only pickups I've ever had that I actively hated. I'd describe them as pickups that sound like they were designed by someone who has never played a guitar before then had EMGs described to them by someone who didn't like EMGs in the first place. They were just waaaay too much of everything. Too hot, too much low end, too much high end, too much everything.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 22, 2021)

TedEH said:


> I dunno if I just had a bad set or something, but Blackouts were the only pickups I've ever had that I actively hated. I'd describe them as pickups that sound like they were designed by someone who has never played a guitar before then had EMGs described to them by someone who didn't like EMGs in the first place. They were just waaaay too much of everything. Too hot, to much low end, to much high end, too much everything.



Ime the Micks were a wussier sounding 85/85 set.


----------



## TedEH (Jul 22, 2021)

And I'm saying that as someone who likes the EMGs I've tried.


----------



## VESmedic (Jul 22, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm trying to figure out why people claim SLOs smoke the 5150 in terms of tightness and clarity. Every time I've heard the SLO, it sounds pretty damn woofy in the low end, even compared to an OG 5150. It nails that late '80s, early '90s hard rock/hair metal tone, but... Eh?




Couldn’t agree more. Worst low end ever from an amp in this class in my opinion. And it was just completely bloated no matter how I EQ’d it. People will justify their gear and the price they paid all day, I’ve done it myself for sure. But I had to come down to reality with it and what it is. Leads and cleans were great, but I have 7-8 other amps that do it as well and some better for sure. Massive hype in the gear and YouTube world on this one. And it’s interesting because the dudes that hype this thing, as music as progressed and gotten more artificial etc, it’s farther and farther away from what A lot of modern kids want these days.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 22, 2021)

TedEH said:


> Blackouts were the only pickups I've ever had that I actively hated.


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 22, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> They are great...for the t_*h*_rash



FTFY


----------



## cwhitey2 (Jul 22, 2021)

Strymon DIG was my biggest. I loved every clip I heard of it. I could not for the life of me get any tones I could use out of the damn thing. I tried everything, but it just doesn't mesh with my playing style or how I write


----------



## BMFan30 (Jul 22, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I don't even remember, honestly because it was the best of a shitty bunch...but still not something I want.


Sorry, I meant which pickups did you like more than EMG after realizing you didn't like EMG so much? 

You described them as thin and metallic and I quite honestly wouldn't like that either so I just wanted to know what else I should look at when shopping for pickups myself. Until I read you say that then had everyone agreed, it made me think that EMG wasn't even what I should try first when shopping like I planned.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jul 22, 2021)

cwhitey2 said:


> Strymon DIG was my biggest. I loved every clip I heard of it. I could not for the life of me get any tones I could use out of the damn thing. I tried everything, but it just doesn't mesh with my playing style or how I write



Yeah man. I had that and really liked it but it just didn’t quite do it for me as well as my El Cap. And then I got the Volante and totally love that. Sold off a bunch of stuff after getting that one.


----------



## nightlight (Jul 22, 2021)

I think the 81/85 is a classic combo if you're playing old school thrash. It's basically the sound of Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, etc. If you're into more modern tones, it may not be your cup of tea, but if you're after that sound, there really is no other equivalent.


----------



## narad (Jul 22, 2021)

BigViolin said:


> Hannes bridge
> Very cool design….wrong material. It imparts a plinky hollowness to certain frequencies in every guitar I’ve tried it in.



Totally agree!


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 22, 2021)

BMFan30 said:


> Sorry, I meant which pickups did you like more than EMG after realizing you didn't like EMG so much?
> 
> You described them as thin and metallic and I quite honestly wouldn't like that either so I just wanted to know what else I should look at when shopping for pickups myself. Until I read you say that then had everyone agreed, it made me think that EMG wasn't even what I should try first when shopping like I planned.



I was really into Rockfield Fatass pickups for a while, now I'm partial to Dean Time Capsule pickups


----------



## BMFan30 (Jul 22, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I was really into Rockfield Fatass pickups for a while, now I'm partial to Dean Time Capsule pickups


Thanks for the quick reply. I've jotted these down on my list. Can't wait to try them! 

Are these the Dean Time Capsules you're referring to?
https://shop.deanguitars.com/collections/dmt-time-capsule


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 22, 2021)

BMFan30 said:


> Thanks for the quick reply. I've jotted these down on my list. Can't wait to try them!
> 
> Are these the Dean Time Capsules you're referring to?
> https://shop.deanguitars.com/collections/dmt-time-capsule


Yeah. They aren't modern sounding or anything but that's why I like them. I'd love to get my hands on a Rockfield to see if I still like them but the company is long since defunct. I hear they were a take on the Tone Zone anyways


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 22, 2021)

TedEH said:


> I dunno if I just had a bad set or something, but Blackouts were the only pickups I've ever had that I actively hated. I'd describe them as pickups that sound like they were designed by someone who has never played a guitar before then had EMGs described to them by someone who didn't like EMGs in the first place. They were just waaaay too much of everything. Too hot, too much low end, too much high end, too much everything.


I think my biggest problem with EMGs is how shrill and harsh the top end is. They are pretty damn sterile sounding too. 

That’s not saying i dislike EMGs, but Blackouts are like a beefier, more organic, and smoother EMG, imo.

They basically solve everything i dislike about EMGs.


----------



## TedEH (Jul 22, 2021)

I'm reminded of that "words we use to describe tone" survey thing.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 22, 2021)

blackouts v1 are some of the absolute worst pickups I've ever used. Too much output, plus they have to be the muddiest/ fartiest pickups I've ever used next to the ibanez v7/v8 set.


----------



## BMFan30 (Jul 22, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Yeah. They aren't modern sounding or anything but that's why I like them. I'd love to get my hands on a Rockfield to see if I still like them but the company is long since defunct. I hear they were a take on the Tone Zone anyways


Thanks I like the sound of that description. Yeah I noticed GC had that listing up as unavailable on the Rockfield pickups, which I think I only heard about only once other than you. I'm also surprised that the prices aren't nearly as bad as I thought.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 22, 2021)

I think the pickup that most disappointed me was the Swineshead. Not that they were bad, per se, but they didn't tickle my fancy even as much as the cheap stock pickups I swapped them out for. At $165 or whatever it was for them (15 years ago that money was worth a little more, too), it was a substantial letdown.

I also kind of hated the D-Sonic a little. Maybe I got a dud, but the one I acquired was noisy and I didn't gel at all with the tone. I couldn't get a Pettrucci tone out of it no matter how much I fiddled with my settings, either.


----------



## TedEH (Jul 22, 2021)

Maybe those same v1 pickups are what I had. Insane amounts of output. Farty and distorted even on very clean sounds. They didn't know what the meaning of "clean" was.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 22, 2021)

bostjan said:


> I think the pickup that most disappointed me was the Swineshead. Not that they were bad, per se, but they didn't tickle my fancy even as much as the cheap stock pickups I swapped them out for. At $165 or whatever it was for them (15 years ago that money was worth a little more, too), it was a substantial letdown.
> 
> I also kind of hated the D-Sonic a little. Maybe I got a dud, but the one I acquired was noisy and I didn't gel at all with the tone. I couldn't get a Pettrucci tone out of it no matter how much I fiddled with my settings, either.



I never really understood the boutique pickup thing. The market is oversaturated with pickup options for a lot cheaper but gear nerd are always lusting after the thing that's not easily obtainable. I'm much more likely to try some Dimarzios and Seymour Duncans or something like that.

Then again I feel like after a certain point, a pickup is a pickup and it doesn't really matter as long as it's hot enough for whatever you need. I'm not getting crazy with pickup options because it's not that important


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 22, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I never really understood the boutique pickup thing. The market is oversaturated with pickup options for a lot cheaper but gear nerd are always lusting after the thing that's not easily obtainable. I'm much more likely to try some Dimarzios and Seymour Duncans or something like that.
> 
> Then again I feel like after a certain point, a pickup is a pickup and it doesn't really matter as long as it's hot enough for whatever you need. I'm not getting crazy with pickup options because it's not that important



Back in like 2006/2007 if you played anything with more than 6 strings your options were a single SD set, five different (and mostly mediocre) DiMarzios, and 707s which required routing in many cases. There was a single option for 8s, the 808. 

You pretty much had to go custom/boutique.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 22, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Back in like 2006/2007 if you played anything with more than 6 strings your options were a single SD set, five different (and mostly mediocre) DiMarzios, and 707s which required routing in many cases. There was a single option for 8s, the 808.
> 
> You pretty much had to go custom/boutique.



For those people it made sense but these days the sky is the limit and I'm mainly talking about six string players.


----------



## bostjan (Jul 22, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Back in like 2006/2007 if you played anything with more than 6 strings your options were a single SD set, five different (and mostly mediocre) DiMarzios, and 707s which required routing in many cases. There was a single option for 8s, the 808.
> 
> You pretty much had to go custom/boutique.


Exactly. Some of the boutique pickups around then were getting rave reviews around these parts. Actually, finding seven string pickups was a big part of why I lurked around here at first.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 22, 2021)

TedEH said:


> Maybe those same v1 pickups are what I had. Insane amounts of output. Farty and distorted even on very clean sounds. They didn't know what the meaning of "clean" was.


This sounds a bit like user error to me.

Blackouts do indeed have a lot of output (one reason i like them so much), but they are perfectly capable of clean tones.

In fact, we all know how much gain is on the Stealth 100 clean channel, yet I have zero issues with getting a clean tone with it. Besides, I don’t know why anyone would use Blackouts for cleans? That’s clearly a misconception of what Blackouts are intended for.



KnightBrolaire said:


> blackouts v1 are some of the absolute worst pickups I've ever used. Too much output, plus they have to be the muddiest/ fartiest pickups I've ever used next to the ibanez v7/v8 set.



That definitely doesn’t describe Blackouts in general. They have a bit of bottom end going on, and are a tad darker than something like an EMG, so you do need to be somewhat judicious when dialing your tones. But they’re overall fairly tight.

I suppose it’s quite possible that Blackouts just don’t jive with certain guitars, therefore producing a muddier tone.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 22, 2021)

I think this is a pretty accurate shootout between Blackouts and EMGs, even though they are the Hetfield and EMTY (Mick Thomson) pickups.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 22, 2021)

Blackouts always sound like they have way too much output. Plus, I get the feeling that Seymour Duncan has essentially abandoned them as something they are actively pushing. They've stopped producing the Alnico II Classic, single coils, and Metal (which was apparently even more output). I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped making the regular Blackouts when their endorsement deals for the signatures are up.


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## TedEH (Jul 22, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> This sounds a bit like user error to me. [...] In fact, we all know how much gain is on the Stealth 100 clean channel, yet I have zero issues with getting a clean tone with it. Besides, I don’t know why anyone would use Blackouts for cleans? That’s clearly a misconception of what Blackouts are intended for.


I dunno about user error so much as they're just not what I want in pickups. Also I don't know the Stealth at all, so that's not meaningful to me. You could ask "why would I use Blackout for cleans?", or you could instead ask "why would I want pickups that sound bad clean?" Which I don't. To each their own. If you want a high output and kinda dark sound pickup, go for it.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 22, 2021)

TedEH said:


> I dunno about user error so much as they're just not what I want in pickups. Also I don't know the Stealth at all, so that's not meaningful to me. You could ask "why would I use Blackout for cleans?", or you could instead ask "why would I want pickups that sound bad clean?" Which I don't. To each their own. If you want a high output and kinda dark sound pickup, go for it.


The Stealth is EVH’s signature amp. It has stupid amounts of gain. Even the clean channel breaks up sooner than any other amp I’ve played.

So that was my point. If i can get clean tones with Blackouts on one of the highest gain amps ever made, and someone else is unable to “even on very clean sounds”, then I can’t help but think user error is at play.

Blackouts don’t produce very pretty cleans, I’ll give ya that, but they can in fact produce a clean tone.


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 22, 2021)

BKP Aftermaths. They came on the guitar and I hated them the moment I plugged it in.

To me they basically sounded like a more boring EMG-81 (and that's saying a lot).


----------



## nightlight (Jul 22, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> BKP Aftermaths. They came on the guitar and I hated them the moment I plugged it in.
> 
> To me they basically sounded like a more boring EMG-81 (and that's saying a lot).



No way! I have After maths in my OD Guitar Venus, and it is such an earthy and organic tone. Unlike actives, passives have a lot more of the tone from the guitar construction. It must have just been that axe, they are really nice, I think. 

Clip:


----------



## nightlight (Jul 22, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> The Stealth is EVH’s signature amp. It has stupid amounts of gain. Even the clean channel breaks up sooner than any other amp I’ve played.
> 
> So that was my point. If i can get clean tones with Blackouts on one of the highest gain amps ever made, and someone else is unable to “even on very clean sounds”, then I can’t help but think user error is at play.
> 
> Blackouts don’t produce very pretty cleans, I’ll give ya that, but they can in fact produce a clean tone.



I agree 100%. I don't think there are any pickups that can't nail a clean tone, to be honest.


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## sevenfoxes (Jul 22, 2021)

Clean tones from my Charvel DS-1 loaded with Blackouts. Like i said, not the prettiest, but totally capable. Keep in mind that even the "clean" channel on this amp is more like a crunch channel (sorry for the shit phone camera quality).


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 22, 2021)

nightlight said:


> No way! I have After maths in my OD Guitar Venus, and it is such an earthy and organic tone. Unlike actives, passives have a lot more of the tone from the guitar construction. It must have just been that axe, they are really nice, I think.
> 
> Clip:




Aftermaths having an organic and earthy tone? This is literally the first time I've ever heard someone say that. I'd rather say clanky, compressed, boring, boxy, and overall a combination of all the bad aspects of an EMG 81 with none of the good. But hey, according to you it must be my guitar's fault. lmao.

The guitar was a Mike Shannon Masterbuilt CS Jackson, BTW. Which happens to be my mellowest sounding guitar acoustically (it would have been way worse on any of my other guitars).

So yeah, glad you like them. But this thread is about disappointments, not about things that you like


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jul 22, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Aftermaths having an organic and earthy tone? This is literally the first time I've ever heard someone say that. I'd rather say clanky, compressed, boring, boxy, and overall a combination of all the bad aspects of an EMG 81 with none of the good. But hey, according to you it must be my guitar's fault. lmao.
> 
> The guitar was a Mike Shannon Masterbuilt CS Jackson, BTW. Which happens to be my mellowest sounding guitar acoustically (it would have been way worse on any of my other guitars).
> 
> So yeah, glad you like them. But this thread is about disappointments, not about things that you like


seconded. Aftermaths are some of the worst bkps imo. They felt clanky, metallic and boxy in the swamp ash/ebony 8 string I had them in. Could not rip them out fast enough.

The juggernauts do everything better and they had way better cleans/splits. I don't really like the juggernauts but they fix all the problems of the aftermaths imo.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 22, 2021)

One thing to take away from this thread: we all really do hear things differently.


----------



## Matt08642 (Jul 22, 2021)

TedEH said:


> I dunno if I just had a bad set or something, but Blackouts were the only pickups I've ever had that I actively hated. I'd describe them as pickups that sound like they were designed by someone who has never played a guitar before then had EMGs described to them by someone who didn't like EMGs in the first place. They were just waaaay too much of everything. Too hot, too much low end, too much high end, too much everything.



Excellent description of Blackouts. Someone swapped the EMGs in one of my guitars to AHB-1 blackouts before I bought it off them and I thought I was dialing everything in wrong, but it turns out they just sound like dog shit with, as you said, too much of everything. Tried dumping them as low as possible as well, still shit.



bostjan said:


> I think the pickup that most disappointed me was the Swineshead. Not that they were bad, per se, but they didn't tickle my fancy even as much as the cheap stock pickups I swapped them out for. At $165 or whatever it was for them (15 years ago that money was worth a little more, too), it was a substantial letdown.
> 
> I also kind of hated the D-Sonic a little. Maybe I got a dud, but the one I acquired was noisy and I didn't gel at all with the tone. I couldn't get a Pettrucci tone out of it no matter how much I fiddled with my settings, either.



Ahhh Swineshead, I remember those. Brings me back to my early days on guitar forums


----------



## nightlight (Jul 22, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Aftermaths having an organic and earthy tone? This is literally the first time I've ever heard someone say that. I'd rather say clanky, compressed, boring, boxy, and overall a combination of all the bad aspects of an EMG 81 with none of the good. But hey, according to you it must be my guitar's fault. lmao.
> 
> The guitar was a Mike Shannon Masterbuilt CS Jackson, BTW. Which happens to be my mellowest sounding guitar acoustically (it would have been way worse on any of my other guitars).
> 
> So yeah, glad you like them. But this thread is about disappointments, not about things that you like



Oh, I know it's about disappointments, but can't one disagree? I was just curious and sought to elicit more Information. 

What kind of wood was the guitar made of? Was the guitar chambered? Set neck, neck through? My guitar is black limba with a maple top and chambered. Wenge-mahogany neck. It's very light too, almost as light as a Strandberg. ABM Bridge. Kind of zingy tone-wise, if that makes sense.


----------



## Choop (Jul 22, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> Clean tones from my Charvel DS-1 loaded with Blackouts. Like i said, not the prettiest, but totally capable. Keep in mind that even the "clean" channel on this amp is more like a crunch channel (sorry for the shit phone camera quality).




It's a lot like the kind of clean you can get out of an OG 5150, just throw on a reverb and maybe delay. It ain't so bad.


----------



## nightlight (Jul 22, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> seconded. Aftermaths are some of the worst bkps imo. They felt clanky, metallic and boxy in the swamp ash/ebony 8 string I had them in. Could not rip them out fast enough.
> 
> The juggernauts do everything better and they had way better cleans/splits. I don't really like the juggernauts but they fix all the problems of the aftermaths imo.



I had Juggernauts in a Mayones I owned. I liked them, real solid tone. Maybe a bit too high output for my taste. 

Here's a clip:

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/Bjd6i

I think I'm tired of the Sentient-Pegasus combination in my 8 string. Don't really have a point of reference to compare it, but I think something more compressed would be better. I used to have an G 57-8 and 65-8 in an RG2228 I owned. That was an awesome tone.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Jul 22, 2021)

Choop said:


> It's a lot like the kind of clean you can get out of an OG 5150, just throw on a reverb and maybe delay. It ain't so bad.


With pickups like Blackouts (or EMGs, for that matter) absolutely.

But to be perfectly honest, the Stealth’s cleans are actually MUCH better than the OG. No comparison, really. Something like a Fender strat sounds excellent with the Stealth, whereas it just sounds OK with the OG.


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 22, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> seconded. Aftermaths are some of the worst bkps imo. They felt clanky, metallic and boxy in the swamp ash/ebony 8 string I had them in. Could not rip them out fast enough.
> 
> The juggernauts do everything better and they had way better cleans/splits. I don't really like the juggernauts but they fix all the problems of the aftermaths imo.



Yup. I thought exactly the same about the Juggs when I got them. They're like a "fixed" Aftermath. Apparently it was based on it.

I don't really like it that much either TBH, but it's definetely much more versatile and better sounding overall.


----------



## oracles (Jul 22, 2021)

KnightBrolaire said:


> seconded. Aftermaths are some of the worst bkps imo. They felt clanky, metallic and boxy in the swamp ash/ebony 8 string I had them in. Could not rip them out fast enough.
> 
> The juggernauts do everything better and they had way better cleans/splits. I don't really like the juggernauts but they fix all the problems of the aftermaths imo.



I found both sets entirely awful, but the Aftermaths less so than the Juggernauts. The Aftermath is harsh and abrasive, but the Juggernauts are so mid heavy and bloated and it's impossible to dial out. I found it easier to try and compensate for the harshness of the Aftermath, but both sets are terrible.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jul 22, 2021)

Since we’re all disagreeing now, I’ll come out and say that any sub $700 guitar with a rosewood fretboard I’ve owned has sounded like a dead hunk of shit.

EDIT: my brother has an older Ibanez S420 that sounds very good. But it’s the exception.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 23, 2021)

youngthrasher9 said:


> Since we’re all disagreeing now, I’ll come out and say that any sub $700 guitar with a rosewood fretboard I’ve owned has sounded like a dead hunk of shit.
> 
> EDIT: my brother has an older Ibanez S420 that sounds very good. But it’s the exception.



Fuck rosewood. Looks like ass, feels like it, and has never played well unless it's old or on a more expensive guitar and even then I wouldn't buy it since it looks so nasty. I've had 1 guitar that I enjoyed a rosewood board on and that was really dark anyways. My 2 main guitars have probably dyed ebony boards. Pure black. Slick, smooth perfection.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 23, 2021)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Fuck rosewood. Looks like ass, feels like it, and has never played well unless it's old or on a more expensive guitar and even then I wouldn't buy it since it looks so nasty. I've had 1 guitar that I enjoyed a rosewood board on and that was really dark anyways. My 2 main guitars have probably dyed ebony boards. Pure black. Slick, smooth perfection.


If you feel the fretboard while you're playing, you're working too hard, champ.


----------



## Dawn of the Shred (Jul 23, 2021)

My Fryette Pittbull UL… I wish I’d never traded it. But I just bought another one, should be in by Saturday and I won’t get rid of this one.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Jul 23, 2021)

Dawn of the Shred said:


> My Fryette Pittbull UL… I wish I’d never traded it. But I just bought another one, should be in by Saturday and I won’t get rid of this one.


Then how was it a disappointment?


----------



## Dawn of the Shred (Jul 23, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Then how was it a disappointment?


 
Yeah I missed read the thread, my bad


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## Lemonbaby (Jul 23, 2021)

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> EMGs. Dear god did I grow to hate them. Clangy, metallic, thin..just all the things I don't want in a pickup. The 81 was a nightmare so I tried switching to an 85 thinking it would help. Nope..still hated them.


I would have agreed before I used the Lace Alumitones in one of my builds. Most useless piece of man made equipment ever, pure waste of resources.


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## cwhitey2 (Jul 23, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah man. I had that and really liked it but it just didn’t quite do it for me as well as my El Cap. And then I got the Volante and totally love that. Sold off a bunch of stuff after getting that one.


I haven't tried the Volante...1) because i know ill love it and 2) i have an fm3, so i think im set on gear for a while.


----------



## Edika (Jul 23, 2021)

If we speak about pickups I think the ones that dissapointed me the most, due to different expectations I had from them, were the Dimarzio Dominions. Specifically the bridge pickup. It was weird as it had a lot of crunch and distortion but felt weak/single coilish at the same time. I expected a fuller sound out of it. I tried them on two guitars, with better results on the first one, but wasn't thrilled. Not to say it was a bad pickup just not for me, at this point of time.


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## TheBolivianSniper (Jul 23, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> If you feel the fretboard while you're playing, you're working too hard, champ.



Yeah sorry poor word choice, I just like pure glossy black boards or a good deep roasted maple. I've been working pretty hard on getting both my hands lighter tbh, on sax and guitar I started out with a mad case of death grip and finally killed it a few months ago. Getting there with guitar. 

But in terms of board, I was referring to having a uniform character to it.


----------



## AMOS (Jul 23, 2021)

Behringer Sonic Maximizer, I got one about 10 years ago and they don't do a damn thing.


----------



## Choop (Jul 23, 2021)

Leaviathan said:


> Behringer Sonic Maximizer, I got one about 10 years ago and they don't do a damn thing.



I used to have the BBE Sonic Maximizer in pedal form and it did affect the tone of my old 5150 2x12 some, but it didn't do anything that a graphic EQ or something couldn't also do better.


----------



## maliciousteve (Jul 23, 2021)

I sold my Ibanez RG1550FM which was amazing. Beautiful guitar and one I certainly miss. I sold it to buy this







A Ibanez USA Custom RG w/ Music Of The Sphere graphic. I dreamt of owning one of these and so excited to come across one at an affordable price from a respected dealer.

It turned up and I noticed every piece of metal was covered in Gunk and Rust. It sounded terrible and it never stayed in tune. I even changed the Edge bridge for a less worn Edge bridge and it still never stayed in tune.

Turned out the neck wasn't original. I originally thought the USA Custom logo had come off/worn off but when I took the neck off it turned out to be an RG770 neck. An appropriate replacement but not original like I believed it to be. I sold it after 3 weeks for what I paid for it and regretted selling my RG1550FM ever since. RG1550FM seen below


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 23, 2021)

maliciousteve said:


> I sold my Ibanez RG1550FM which was amazing. Beautiful guitar and one I certainly miss. I sold it to buy this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The neck was probably stock, as the USA graphic models were built in Japan using off the shelf necks and bodies, and then painted and assembled in the US. 

I've owned and worked on a number of these and the necks/bodies had regular model number stampings.


----------



## maliciousteve (Jul 23, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The neck was probably stock, as the USA graphic models were built in Japan using off the shelf necks and bodies, and then painted and assembled in the US.
> 
> I've owned and worked on a number of these and the necks/bodies had regular model number stampings.



Did they all have the USA Custom logo on the headstock? as that particular neck didn't


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 23, 2021)

maliciousteve said:


> Did they all have the USA Custom logo on the headstock? as that particular neck didn't



I've seen them with the branding worn off and without from new on later models.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 23, 2021)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Yeah sorry poor word choice, I just like pure glossy black boards or a good deep roasted maple. I've been working pretty hard on getting both my hands lighter tbh, on sax and guitar I started out with a mad case of death grip and finally killed it a few months ago. Getting there with guitar.
> 
> But in terms of board, I was referring to having a uniform character to it.


Whoa... bro, you're going to injure yourself and be unable to play either without intense pain, as well as most likely needing surgery. Relax. It's an instrument, not rage making with your trouser snake.


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 23, 2021)

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Fuck rosewood. Looks like ass, feels like it, and has never played well unless it's old or on a more expensive guitar and even then I wouldn't buy it since it looks so nasty. I've had 1 guitar that I enjoyed a rosewood board on and that was really dark anyways. My 2 main guitars have probably dyed ebony boards. Pure black. Slick, smooth perfection.








Anyway. Posts like these make me laugh my ass off whenever I see people complaining about laurel fretboards in new production guitars and wishing rosewood came back (since it became protected)


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jul 23, 2021)

cwhitey2 said:


> I haven't tried the Volante...1) because i know ill love it and 2) i have an fm3, so i think im set on gear for a while.



Valid. I have both but haven’t touched my Volante in a lonnnng time. FM3 gets all the love lately.


----------



## Bg999 (Jul 26, 2021)

For me it’s marshall DSL40CR. This pandemic makes me unable to try the amps before I buy. However, on paper it seemed perfect: big EL34 tubes, high gain, celestion v-type speaker. 
When it arrived, it sounds nothing like the clips I heard. I much prefer the sound of my roland cube 80 to it. The so called ultra gain channel isn’t that gainy at all, and the distortion is flubby and harsh+thin at the same time. I should have gone with PRS MT15.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 26, 2021)

Bg999 said:


> For me it’s marshall DSL40CR. This pandemic makes me unable to try the amps before I buy. However, on paper it seemed perfect: big EL34 tubes, high gain, celestion v-type speaker.
> When it arrived, it sounds nothing like the clips I heard. I much prefer the sound of my roland cube 80 to it. The so called ultra gain channel isn’t that gainy at all, and the distortion is flubby and harsh+thin at the same time. I should have gone with PRS MT15.



Yeah, I feel like all the folks really pushing the DSLs just heard clips online and ran with it. Back in the early 00's they were everywhere, because they were cheap, available, and loud. But the tone was never great, everyone just put tons of pedals in front and made it work. Marshall brought it back for pure nostalgia.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 26, 2021)

Bg999 said:


> For me it’s marshall DSL40CR. This pandemic makes me unable to try the amps before I buy. However, on paper it seemed perfect: big EL34 tubes, high gain, celestion v-type speaker.
> When it arrived, it sounds nothing like the clips I heard. I much prefer the sound of my roland cube 80 to it. The so called ultra gain channel isn’t that gainy at all, and the distortion is flubby and harsh+thin at the same time. I should have gone with PRS MT15.


I hear getting the volume controls set correctly is important for getting the best tone with the Marshall JCM2000 DSL.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 26, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I hear getting the volume controls set correctly is important for getting the best tone with the Marshall JCM2000 DSL.



There's no real secret to them. They record decently well, and are featured enough to be reasonably flexible, but the core tone is absolutely nothing special, and they tend to not sound great in the room unless you really crank it and put it through a good cab.


----------



## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 26, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> There's no real secret to them. They record decently well, and are featured enough to be reasonably flexible, but the core tone is absolutely nothing special, and they tend to not sound great in the room unless you really crank it and put it through a good cab.


I think I remember someone (maybe Leon) saying that to get the best tone, you needed the Master kind of high (like 1:00-1:30), while using the channel volume for your overall volume. I could be mixing the DSL up with something else though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 26, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I think I remember someone (maybe Leon) saying that to get the best tone, you needed the Master kind of high (like 1:00-1:30), while using the channel volume for your overall volume. I could be mixing the DSL up with something else though.



That's sort of one of those general rules that apply to most high gain amps. Get them loud enough to push the speakers, then use channel volume/gain to taste. Contemporary high gainers are predominantly preamp based, with big and fairly cold power sections.


----------



## TedEH (Jul 26, 2021)

IMO the DSL40CR just needs a better speaker. (And maybe expectations kept in check for high gain sounds at a budget.) Even the "better speaker" in the CR version is kinda harsh and brittle sounding to my ears, so I can only imagine how bad the non-CR version was. Through a decent cab though, it's a pretty decent mid-gain amp IMO. I've been considering getting / making a head shell and ignoring the speaker entirely.


----------



## laxu (Jul 26, 2021)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> I think I remember someone (maybe Leon) saying that to get the best tone, you needed the Master kind of high (like 1:00-1:30), while using the channel volume for your overall volume. I could be mixing the DSL up with something else though.



JCM2000 DSL's have just gain and master volume (or channel volume if you will( for each channel and no global master volume. The DSL40CR seems to have global masters too.

From what I remember of my DSL50 it sounded much better cranked through an attenuator but then again all amps sound better when louder. 

IMO Marshall just doesn't know how to build a master volume amp that actually sounds great at nearly any volume. I have no problems getting those classic Marshall tones out of my Bogner Goldfinger 45 SL or BluGuitar Amp 1 without powertube distortion ever entering the equation.


----------



## BabUShka (Jul 26, 2021)

I used to own a Marshall JVM, 50W version. I was actually impressed how they managed to construct a 50W tube amp that was tweakable at lower volum settings compared to Orange and ENGL amps that i had. It was not great at bedroom levels, but far better than other tube amps ive played.

I once played a Silver jubelee Marshall om a small stage. That beast went from no sound, to glass breaking levels - nothing in between. The sound guy was not impressed.


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 26, 2021)

The JVMs are probably the only Marshalls that do the hi-gain preamp thing right. I'd probably have the JS if they weren't soooo many issues with them (since their build quality is far from spectacular).


----------



## BenjaminW (Jul 26, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> The JVMs are probably the only Marshalls that do the hi-gain preamp thing right. I'd probably have the JS if they weren't soooo many issues with them (since their build quality is far from spectacular).


As much as I love my 2203, I still kick myself for not taking a chance on a JVM after playing one at Guitar Center. Had all the gain I could ever need and want while still being a Marshall which had been high on my GAS list for years, and was absolutely capable of getting whatever kinds of sounds I wanted.

Instead, I had to compromise with virtually one tone rather than twelve with the red, green, and orange modes for each of the four channels. This isn't to say 2203s are bad amps, I just wish I had more range with it. Even though I say that as I very rarely use clean tones.


----------



## Partario (Jul 28, 2021)

Randall Thrasher. It read like everything I wanted in an amp. Fortin designed gainstage, perfect for low tunings etc. It was so stiff and sterile. It ripped pretty hard at drop B and above, but anything below that got muddy. I tried to tighten it up with an OD808, but the input can’t be goosed very hard and it starts clipping. It has the most glorious clean channel I’ve ever heard, but that wasn’t worth keeping it. Got a 6505+ and I’m a happy boy now.


----------



## KentBrockman (Jul 28, 2021)

Bg999 said:


> For me it’s marshall DSL40CR. This pandemic makes me unable to try the amps before I buy. However, on paper it seemed perfect: big EL34 tubes, high gain, celestion v-type speaker.
> When it arrived, it sounds nothing like the clips I heard. I much prefer the sound of my roland cube 80 to it. The so called ultra gain channel isn’t that gainy at all, and the distortion is flubby and harsh+thin at the same time. I should have gone with PRS MT15.



Totally agree. I tried the DSL40C in a GC a few months and absolutely loathed it. Totally not what I expected. It sounded way to tinny.


----------



## Estilo (Jul 28, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, I feel like all the folks really pushing the DSLs just heard clips online and ran with it. Back in the early 00's they were everywhere, because they were cheap, available, and loud. But the tone was never great, everyone just put tons of pedals in front and made it work. Marshall brought it back for pure nostalgia.



Are the current iteration the same as the JCM2000 DSL's of the past which are known to be made in the UK but have faulty circuits from the onset? 

They've certainly been making the rounds of late. A certain popular metal YouTuber who cannot be named here named the DSL20 his gear of the year for 2020, and an old Slayer rig rundown video showed Gary Holt running 4 DSL100H's (non-R) for his Slayer gig.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 28, 2021)

Estilo said:


> Are the current iteration the same as the JCM2000 DSL's of the past which are known to be made in the UK but have faulty circuits from the onset?
> 
> They've certainly been making the rounds of late. A certain popular metal YouTuber who cannot be named here named the DSL20 his gear of the year for 2020, and an old Slayer rig rundown video showed Gary Holt running 4 DSL100H's (non-R) for his Slayer gig.



They dont seem to. From what I read the problem with the originals was bias drift due to misprinted boards. I'm sure they fixed that with later revisions and the current run. 

And yeah people do seem to like the DSL. I know Gary Moore's amp of choice since 1997 was the DSL, apparently even up to his death. He was one of the first endoesees and stuck with them. But IMO the Marshall JVM is the ultimate Marshall and I wish they'd do more with that (lunchbox amp, noise gate on the standard version, etc)


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## laxu (Jul 28, 2021)

Estilo said:


> Are the current iteration the same as the JCM2000 DSL's of the past which are known to be made in the UK but have faulty circuits from the onset?



No. The JCM2000s had issues with bias drift on the earlier DSL50/100 heads while the DSL401 combo has to be one of the worst designed amps because it would overheat and develop cold solder joint issues.

I used to have a JCM2000 DSL50 and it definitely did those Gary Moore tones really well. It just didn't sound all that great turned down so I ran it through an attenuator. It was best used as a single channel amp because getting anything more than a compromise out of the two channels was impossible. Either the 2nd channel was thin or the 1st channel was tubby. My DSL50 also had the bias drift issue and the preamp board would always flex if you were changing the preamp tubes, feared it might break.

It's one of those "sounds good but just don't buy one" amps to me. There's more modern stuff that I would take over the JCM2000 series any day.

Afaik the current DSLs don't have those issues and should have better channel EQ balance too. I haven't tried them so I can't say for sure. The DSL40CR is popular because it's an inexpensive Marshall combo. The DSL20 heads and combos are also pretty cheap. What surprises me is that they don't make a DSL40 head because that would probably be a big seller - enough power for any gig and a decent feature set. Maybe they think it would cannibalize their other lineups too much.


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## swollseyba (Jul 28, 2021)

1. Both Recto variants that I have owned (Rev-G Dual Rec & Roadster)-so frustrating
2. Quad Cortex is a cool piece of gear but I couldn't help but feel let down after all the hype and being in the tier 1 US preorders. It just wasn't ready to be released and all the promises of what it will eventually be capable of feel like bullshit. It should have been shipped with the plugins included.
3. BKP Juggernauts were super underwhelming for the type of tones I like. I think the pickups are great, just not for me.

I love this thread.


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## Estilo (Jul 28, 2021)

laxu said:


> Afaik the current DSLs don't have those issues and should have better channel EQ balance too. I haven't tried them so I can't say for sure. The DSL40CR is popular because it's an inexpensive Marshall combo. The DSL20 heads and combos are also pretty cheap. What surprises me is that they don't make a DSL40 head because that would probably be a big seller - enough power for any gig and a decent feature set. Maybe they think it would cannibalize their other lineups too much.



Yeah I thought we were referring to the current make of the DSL line, the first mention of the DSL was the DSL40CR being a disappointment, not the DSL401. And yeah totally agree it's puzzling they don't have a DSL40 head. I was seriously looking at the DSL20 but wanted a master volume, and they are prone to QC issues though such as the hissing and the volume drop between channels.


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## Werecow (Jul 29, 2021)

Bg999 said:


> and the distortion is flubby and harsh+thin at the same time.



That sums up my history with all the Marshalls i've had & tried. Either some of those qualities or all at the same time. It's difficult for me to say anything good about them. I've not tried a JVM, but i don't think there's any point since i discovered 5150 and "super" Marshalls.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 29, 2021)

BabUShka said:


> I used to own a Marshall JVM, 50W version. I was actually impressed how they managed to construct a 50W tube amp that was tweakable at lower volum settings compared to Orange and ENGL amps that i had. It was not great at bedroom levels, but far better than other tube amps ive played.
> 
> I once played a Silver jubelee Marshall om a small stage. That beast went from no sound, to glass breaking levels - nothing in between. The sound guy was not impressed.



I think the JVM was the first Marshall designed with a clean Soldano/5150-style power amp in mind. Where you can get most of the good shit from the pre section and not need to get the amp to bleeding-ear levels of loud to get *The* sound. IIRC even the JCM2000s needed a good loud volume to get optimal tones.


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## BabUShka (Jul 29, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think the JVM was the first Marshall designed with a clean Soldano/5150-style power amp in mind. Where you can get most of the good shit from the pre section and not need to get the amp to bleeding-ear levels of loud to get *The* sound. IIRC even the JCM2000s needed a good loud volume to get optimal tones.



Its a great amp. I was afraid that the 205 (2 channel 50W) version didnt have enough options compared to 4 channel 100 w beast. But it covered everything I would ever need and more. A noise gate and switchable power output would be amazing.


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## BabUShka (Jul 29, 2021)

swollseyba said:


> 1.
> 3. BKP Juggernauts were super underwhelming for the type of tones I like. I think the pickups are great, just not for me.
> 
> I love this thread.



I had the same experince with BKP Painkiller set. Big fan of BKP, and. The Painkillers were great pickups. Super clear, great string separation, tight. But way too compressed for my taste.


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## Emperoff (Jul 29, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I think the JVM was the first Marshall designed with a clean Soldano/5150-style power amp in mind. Where you can get most of the good shit from the pre section and not need to get the amp to bleeding-ear levels of loud to get *The* sound. IIRC even the JCM2000s needed a good loud volume to get optimal tones.



Yes. The JVMs are the first Marshalls to do the preamp gain thing right at sane volumes, BUT their powerstage is anything but clean. It still has 100% Marshall DNA and if you try stuff direct into it you can hear it right away.

I was actually quite surprised on how much the poweramp is a part of Marshall's sound even with their more modern offerings.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 29, 2021)

BabUShka said:


> Its a great amp. I was afraid that the 205 (2 channel 50W) version didnt have enough options compared to 4 channel 100 w beast. But it covered everything I would ever need and more. A noise gate and switchable power output would be amazing.



I'd love a JVM210 with the JS mid shift and noise gate. Would be the perfect metal Marshall.


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