# So let's talk double-thumb...



## Murmel (May 19, 2012)

I'm in the process of relearning how to slap. I used to only do it Flea-style, and that way has too many limitations.

The new hand/thumb position is super awkward, but I guess I'll get a hang of it.

Now, I also want to learn double-thumb, would be interesting to know how many people on here that can actually do it well.
I would also like to know if I'm gonna hit the string with my nail or not on the way up, because it's filing my nail the way I'm doing it now 



This video will keep me occupied for summer...


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## MetalBuddah (May 19, 2012)

Im gonna definitely have to try this. Isn't this the technique Tosin applied to his 8 strings?


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## prashanthan (May 19, 2012)

I saw this a few weeks back, still a long way from getting it though. Keep practising though, you'll make faster progress than you might think! I think you do hit it with your nail on the way up, I couldn't find any other way around it, and it was painful at first but I'm used to it now.

If Tosin does apply this to his 8 strings, that's just ridiculous. I'm finding a 16.5mm spacing on my Ibby 5 string slightly too tight for this, couldn't imagine doing it on a guitar!


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## Murmel (May 19, 2012)

prashanthan said:


> If Tosin does apply this to his 8 strings, that's just ridiculous. I'm finding a 16.5mm spacing on my Ibby 5 string slightly too tight for this, couldn't imagine doing it on a guitar!


We gotta take into consideration that he's an absolute monster at guitar. But yes, I agree with you.

And come on, he's black, he's a bass natural


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## Enselmis (May 19, 2012)

prashanthan said:


> I saw this a few weeks back, still a long way from getting it though. Keep practising though, you'll make faster progress than you might think! I think you do hit it with your nail on the way up, I couldn't find any other way around it, and it was painful at first but I'm used to it now.
> 
> If Tosin does apply this to his 8 strings, that's just ridiculous. I'm finding a 16.5mm spacing on my Ibby 5 string slightly too tight for this, couldn't imagine doing it on a guitar!



I actually find it easier to do on a guitar. It takes a little more precision but much less effort to actually get a good sound and feel.

I'm jealous of everyone with the hitchhikers thumb, makes it so much easier...


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## LordCashew (May 19, 2012)

Norm Stockton is pretty good at double-thumbing. I asked him for some pointers on it while talking to him after a show, and he actually suggested growing the thumbnail out slightly specifically for use on the upstroke.

That approach actually works well for me. Since the attack of the note is the string hitting the frets it doesn't make any difference tonally to snap the string with the nail. Plus it's easier to control the timing and dynamic level relative to the downstroke than with the whole fingertip in my experience.

To break it down, for the downstroke I basically just do a rest stroke, striking the string with the knuckle of my thumb and traveling through the string to rest on the one below. For the upstroke, I use the bottom (outer) about half of my nail. I slide it up against the string, relaxed, by rotating my arm from the elbow, then snap the string partly by continuing the rotation of my arm but also by simultaneously straightening my thumb.

It sounds kind of complicated but once you put it all together in one smooth motion it's not that hard, provided your friends low string height and minimum neck relief are present. 

I also find this technique easier on guitar than on bass! My approach is a little classical/flamenco guitar like (that's my musical background, in fact) so it gets along OK with narrower string spacing.


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## prashanthan (May 19, 2012)

Just been trying it on my acoustic now. You guys are right, it's nowhere near as bad as I thought, barely have to touch the strings to get the sound, especially with the pops. Bass, on the other hand, you really have to dig in to get it to sound good... but it's much more badass on the bass! I think it's what he's doing here at like 4:40...

Victor Wooten "the lesson" live: EMGtv - YouTube


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## MetalBuddah (May 20, 2012)

prashanthan said:


> If Tosin does apply this to his 8 strings, that's just ridiculous. I'm finding a 16.5mm spacing on my Ibby 5 string slightly too tight for this, couldn't imagine doing it on a guitar!



I am like 98% positive he said something about a Victor Wooten double-thumb technique in an interview where he was showing the techniques he uses. Either way...the man is a monster but would never have gotten that technique without good 'ol Victor Wooten


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## JStraitiff (May 20, 2012)

Thats actually really awesome. Im gonna try to apply this to my 7s.


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## TheytoldmemynamewasMike (May 20, 2012)

I've been practising double thumb slapping for almost 5 years now(I was into it since the first years I played the bass),and I found Wooten's instructional videos and approach to be the ones that fit what I wanna hear and do when I slap.Although,I can assure you that in the end everyone develops a technique according to his/hers needs.Wooten,and Abasi have both really big and I think double jointed thumbs,so it is critical to understand that you will never play excactly like them!You will have to see what your own thumb and fingers can do when it comes to double thumbing. Nevertheless,it is one of the most fun and versatile techniques I know(learn)! You can groove,solo,make percussive sounds and even djent along with the guitar! Practice it slow and daily and you will see results in a couple of weeks!


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (May 20, 2012)

I tried with this technique for some time ages ago. I use the flesh on the side of my thumb which has the unfortunate side effect of severing flesh from the bone. 

So, I found out there was a German bass player who had dealt with this problem. Gerald Reese, inventor of the [/i]/[b/]Slap Ring[/i][/b].

*careful typing that into Google*



Gerald Reese.com - Home

I bought a pair and they work ok. I played a lot of acoustic finger style using the thumb to tremelo on single strings, but the technique is much more physical on bass and it didn't transfer.

Overall, if you can do it long enough that your skin callouses and toughens up enough it might be a useful technique. It didn't work out for me.



You'll probably need this article if you put serious effort into acquiring this technique.

Blistered Plucking Finger/Help - TalkBass Forums

Happy slappin' !!!


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## HaMMerHeD (May 20, 2012)

Murmel said:


> And come on, he's black, he's a bass natural


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## carcass (May 21, 2012)

thank you very much, this is very interesting and I started practising this right after I watched the video, really great


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## ZEBOV (May 21, 2012)

I have a 6 string to learn this on.... At least it's not a Gerald Veasley signature with the tight string spacing that it has.


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## JP Universe (May 21, 2012)

I've been trying the double thumb stuff a lot lately with not much luck however am developing a good slap and pop technique on the guitar and some cool licks


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## simulclass83 (May 22, 2012)

If this is what Tosin does, then it boggles my mind. How the f...?


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## leftyguitarjoe (May 26, 2012)

simulclass83 said:


> If this is what Tosin does, then it boggles my mind. How the f...?



Tosin does a downstroke with his thumb, then an upstroke with his thumb, then plucks with his pointer and middle fingers.

Watch this. At about 1:00 he starts going into his double thumbing and explains how to do it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFoF70lIAI0


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## Nautilus (May 26, 2012)

MetalBuddah said:


> Im gonna definitely have to try this. Isn't this the technique Tosin applied to his 8 strings?


 
yup. Tosin's always credited the technique to Victor though...he's just managed to transfer it over to the electric guitar.


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## Amanita (May 27, 2012)

Victor always credits his brother Reggie with showing him this technique


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## iamok (May 31, 2012)

for interesting slap techniques, check out the 26 second mark. Still trying to figure this one out.


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## VBCheeseGrater (May 31, 2012)

He does it so damn casually, truly makes it look easy.


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## Murmel (Jun 1, 2012)

iamok said:


> for interesting slap techniques, check out the 26 second mark. Still trying to figure this one out.



It looks like he does like Fieldy (and quite a few other similarily styled metal bassists) does sometimes. He hits the string alternating the thumb and the pinky, or palm or whatever.
It's hard to see because of the angle.


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## mortbopet (Jun 2, 2012)

When i started to learn double thumping, i mainly focused on the wooten song called Double thump. I really like this song, because it combines speed, string shifting and so on. I just started out by playing it slowly, and listening after the correct sound. Afterwards its just about building the speed and accuracy!


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## codync (Jun 7, 2012)

leftyguitarjoe said:


> Tosin does a downstroke with his thumb, then an upstroke with his thumb, then plucks with his pointer and middle fingers.
> 
> Watch this. At about 1:00 he starts going into his double thumbing and explains how to do it.




Vic does this as well. 



Amanita said:


> Victor always credits his brother Reggie with showing him this technique



Who taught Evan Brewer how to do it!


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## DjentDjentlalala (Jun 21, 2012)

Actually Tosin DID NOT put it into guitar.Victor's brother did.


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## Murmel (Jun 21, 2012)

^
I doubt that they meant that he was the first one to use double thumb on a guitar. Because he defintely wasn't.


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## Scott Fernandez (Jul 27, 2012)

I made a video of some quadruplets and quintuplets... I'm going to do this tune again and fix a part that I wasn't good enough to do when I originally recorded it but here's there tune as it is now...

Scott Fernandez - ERMAHGERD!!! BERSH... - YouTube


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## LordCashew (Jul 28, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> I made a video of some quadruplets and quintuplets... I'm going to do this tune again and fix a part that I wasn't good enough to do when I originally recorded it but here's there tune as it is now...



Damn what a boss... Does that thing feel tiny compared to the 12 or what?!


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## Scott Fernandez (Jul 28, 2012)

LordIronSpatula said:


> Damn what a boss... Does that thing feel tiny compared to the 12 or what?!



It's actually the first bass I ever bought so I never really thought about it. Everyone always talked about how small it was, even 10 years ago.

Also, I rarely play my 12 except to write music or play with other people. I would say that about 85% of the time that I play bass I am actually playing on my 4 string. My 12 is almost always in her case. My four string is my favorite bass in the world... It can't be helped =)


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 28, 2012)

note to self: "if tosin can do it, then so can i!" is not a valid argument 

I've tried starting with the basics of this technique several times, but it just hurts my fucking thumb too much.


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## Scott Fernandez (Jul 28, 2012)

MF_Kitten said:


> note to self: "if tosin can do it, then so can i!" is not a valid argument
> 
> I've tried starting with the basics of this technique several times, but it just hurts my fucking thumb too much.



The "Nashville Slap" style is very misleading. Most people come out with a standard slap/aggressive approach. It's a lot easier than it may seem. Think of it more like a latin style guitar OR gypsy jazz type of thumb work. Not so much slapping but playing through the string.


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## Semichastny (Jul 29, 2012)

I haven't been able to grasp this slapping style, but I admire it greatly.


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## LordCashew (Jul 29, 2012)

Scott Fernandez said:


> It's a lot easier than it may seem. Think of it more like a latin style guitar OR gypsy jazz type of thumb work. Not so much slapping but playing through the string.



Exactly! Flamenco players have been doing this kind of stuff for ages.


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## Scott Fernandez (Jul 29, 2012)

LordIronSpatula said:


> Exactly! Flamenco players have been doing this kind of stuff for ages.



Exactly. It takes about as much practice as Flamenco would BUT most people don't have the practice habits that it requires.


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## theo (Aug 9, 2012)

Jesus christ scott, Either you are massive or that bass is tiny


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## Scott Fernandez (Aug 9, 2012)

theo said:


> Jesus christ scott, Either you are massive or that bass is tiny



It's actually a bit of both. I play semi pro rugby for my State but that bass is also one of the smallest basses I've ever had the good fortune to play.


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## implicit (Aug 12, 2012)

> Who taught Evan Brewer how to do it!



...who inturn taught it to Tosin while they were in Reflux.


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## TankJon666 (Aug 12, 2012)

Basically. Its just practice. Even Tosin would have practiced it! Contrary to popular belief, he is only human.


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## Scott Fernandez (Aug 12, 2012)

implicit said:


> ...who inturn taught it to Tosin while they were in Reflux.



Evan taught Tosin how to do it. Reggie Wooten taught Evan Brewer and Victor Wooten.


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## Fiction (Aug 12, 2012)

Then who taught reggie


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## DavidLopezJr (Aug 13, 2012)

Fiction said:


> Then who taught reggie


He's known as the guy who started doing it here and then taught Victor, who got the technique popular.


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## Scott Fernandez (Aug 13, 2012)

Fiction said:


> Then who taught reggie



Reggie learned from attempting to learn how Larry Graham was doing what he does BUT they also had Marcus Miller to model after.


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## Scott Fernandez (Aug 13, 2012)

DavidLopezJr said:


> He's known as the guy who started doing it here and then taught Victor, who got the technique popular.



That version of slap or "double thumb" has existed for years upon years through classical and flamenco and a your gypsy jazz styles of playing. It's pretty awesome.


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## Fiction (Aug 15, 2012)

I was just having a little joke to myself 

But thanks guys, I'm a huge fan of Marcus Miller myself.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Aug 16, 2012)

I delved into bass playing for a while and I have a few of Wooten's dvds. I did not like the double thumb because the difference in tonality when I hit the strings with the nail of my thumb vs my other fingers. For fast, albeit not as fast, runs I prefer Sheehan's method and I pick with three fingers. Wooten is awesome though, watching him drops my jaw every time


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## Scott Fernandez (Aug 17, 2012)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I delved into bass playing for a while and I have a few of Wooten's dvds. I did not like the double thumb because the difference in tonality when I hit the strings with the nail of my thumb vs my other fingers. For fast, albeit not as fast, runs I prefer Sheehan's method and I pick with three fingers. Wooten is awesome though, watching him drops my jaw every time



The easiest way to maintain consistency is to NOT use the nail as much as the side of your thumb. I've been doing it for so long that my stupid thumb almost rotted off but it was worth it.
I SUCK at using the three finger style.. It's always made me sad. I can do three fingers ok but no where near as well as some of the amazing talents I've been fortunate enough to see including Billy Sheehan.


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## Scott Fernandez (Aug 17, 2012)

Also, if you're doing it pretty fast, the upstroke of the thumb is unnoticeable, for the most part.


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## LordCashew (Aug 17, 2012)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I did not like the double thumb because the difference in tonality when I hit the strings with the nail of my thumb vs my other fingers.



Well, when you slap a downstroke, you're not really hearing the attack of your thumb on the string per se, but rather the attack of the string hitting the frets. I try to use a similar functional approach for the the upstroke. Unlike Scott, I use _only_ my nail in the upstroke and I still get it to sound pretty even. For me it's about getting the angle and velocity right so that the string _hits the frets the same way_ going up or down. (No disrespect to Scott or his approach intended here, his method obviously can produce insane results!)

Now of course it will never sound _perfectly_ even, just like your index and middle fingers will always sound a tiny bit different fingerstyle. But with both techniques you will achieve sufficient uniformity with practice, especially, as Scott said, at tempo.


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## TolerancEJ (Aug 20, 2012)

DjentDjentlalala said:


> Actually Tosin DID NOT put it into guitar.Victor's brother did.


 
Regi Wooten - Look up some clips on YouTube. That man is incredible. There are a few videos where Regi and Victor are trading musical phrases back & forth. The whole Wooten family is incredibly talented.


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## Scott Fernandez (Aug 20, 2012)

TolerancEJ said:


> Regi Wooten - Look up some clips on YouTube. That man is incredible. There are a few videos where Regi and Victor are trading musical phrases back & forth. The whole Wooten family is incredibly talented.



That''s what I was saying Reggie taught Vic. Guess I forgot to mention that he did it on guitar =)


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 20, 2012)

I curve my thumb upward so that it kind of hooks the string on the upstroke right in that little valley bt the knuckle and nail.


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## Scott Fernandez (Aug 20, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> I curve my thumb upward so that it kind of hooks the string on the upstroke right in that little valley bt the knuckle and nail.



the double stroke is all about physics. If you limit the motion of the swing than the return can happen quicker and quicker. When done well, it's only one short and fluid motion


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