# The Tube Thread



## DrakkarTyrannis

I want to know what everyone's using in their amps. Heads, preamps, poweramps, hybrids, all amps with tubes..list what ya got and how it's working for you. It'll help others compare amp/tube types and give those of us who change tubes frequently, a journal of what we had. Whenever you change tubes, add another entry.

*Amp:* Peavey DTX (Modified JSX)

*Power:* Quad of Sovtex 6550WE. Huge but tight low end, strong but not harsh highs, and a bump in the midrange. Reminds me of a beefy slightly mid restrained KT77.

*Preamp:* V1-JJ EC83s. It darkens the amp up, which it needs
V2-Tung Sol Gold Pin 12AX7. Bright and cutting. Not too keen on it to be honest. I wanted definition and thickness, and I'm not really getting anything "stand out" from this tube..not really worth the money IMO.
V3-JJ EC803s. Nice high action kinda tube. Gives the signal a kick.
V4(Phase Inverter)-Sovtek 12AX7LPS. The stock tube for the amp, it just works better than the other tubes I've tried. Sort of neutral, yet has a good mix of density and clarity I like.


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## budda

Amp: Peavey JSX
Power: Pair of JJ 6L6's
Preamp: JJ 12AX7's, standard JSX kit.


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## neoclassical

Engl Fireball 3 Tungsol 12ax7's, 1 Ruby (Sino) 12ax7, TAD 6l6gc-str

Voodoo Laney AOR Pro Tube Lead Tungsol 12ax7, 3 Ruby (Sino) 12ax7's, Sino E34L bstr's.

All preamp tubes are matched and balanced.


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## cow 7 sig

randall T2
12at7 ruby in valve dynamic power section
3 12ax7 tung sol in preamp


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## CrushingAnvil

Randall RM100M w/ JJ E34L Power tubes and JJ 12AX7's in the preamp section.

reeeaaally wanna try Ruby 6L6's!


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## petereanima

Diezel Herbert

Power: 1 pair JJE34L, 2 pairs Ruby/TAD EL34B-STR. still have 1 pair of JJs as spare tubes left. after that is gone also, i will completely retube with SED 6550 winged C.

Preamp: Tube Amp Doctor TAD 12AX7A-C all the way. still the stock ones. tried JJs (ECC83 and ECC803S), didnt really like what they did - the sound was WAY Much more opened up, which was cool for clean and also for lead, but not tight enough for "rythm" and deep palm mutest stuff. ordered Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG+ for testing, lets see what they deliver...


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## JJ Rodriguez

In Norbert I used Tung Sol EL34B's, and had JJ's in the pre-amp. I will NEVER buy another JJ tube again, as I have at least 30% of them go bad. Went through 3 sets of JJ power tubes, making me believe something was fucked with Norbert. Slapped Tung Sol's in there, and no problem what so ever. Centaur just had 2 JJ KT88's die in his UL, which were supposedly (hard to say though) fresh when he bought his UL, and he put in Sovtek's and no problem at all. I've never heard of anyone else having these problems with JJ's, and everyone fucking loves them, so I don't know what's up. I'm picking up a VHT 2/90/2 and might have found a GP3, so I'm not sure what I'll go with for pre-amp tubes, but I'll probably go Sovtek for the 2/90/2.


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## petereanima

JJ, dont worry - you are not the first one having JJs dying and not the last one. FWIW: The Diezel guys told me at the fair, that they bought masses of JJs, and over 30% died already during testing, and even more within the first month at the customers, so it seems like that this is common...


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## DrakkarTyrannis

Redone


*Amp:* Peavey DTX (Modified JSX)
*
Power:* Quad of Sovtex 6550WE. Huge but tight low end, strong but not harsh highs, and a bump in the midrange. Reminds me of a beefy slightly mid restrained KT77.

*Preamp:* V1-JJ EC83s. It darkens the amp up, which it needs
V2-JJ EC83s. MUCH better. Thick, dark, and heavy
V3-JJ EC803s. Nice high action kinda tube. Gives the signal a kick.
V4(Phase Inverter)-Sovtek 12AX7LPS. The stock tube for the amp, it just works better than the other tubes I've tried. Sort of neutral, yet has a good mix of density and clarity I like.


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## Bound

I've found the JJ ECC803's to actually have a lower output than most other 12AX7's/ECC83's (which expanded the headroom and calmed the amp down a bit) but was also quite noisy. I found the best in the middle, only alone. Never at the start or the phase inverter.

*Amp:* Ashdown FA60H 

*Power* SED "Winged C" SVEL34

*Pre*

V1: Gold pin Tung Sol 12AX7 - to brighten my amp as its dark. This suckas have beautiful gain harmonics
V2 + V3 JJ ECC83's - what can I say but bread n butter
V4: Balanced EHX 12AX7 - something a little different to make sure the pre is quiet but still is lets loose enough fury.


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## CentaurPorn

VHT UL

So far I have tried JJ's a and Sovteks and I am sticking with Sovteks in the the power section. Not only have I seen too many JJ's fail...The sovteks really seem to make my amp come alive. It may have something to do with the fact that steve Fryette built them amp around Sovteks and Chinese tubes in the preamp.

I tried swapping my preamp tubes for JJ's and was very disappointed. Went back to the cheap Chinese tubes and could not be happier. I am about to try swapping V1 for a mullard or Tungsol. I will leave Chinese in the rest. Right now I am running the amp the way it would come from the factory except for a chinese in V1 instead of a Sovtek 12ax7wb (soon to be tung sol) and it sounds fn amazing.


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## Randy

*LOOKING FOR ADVICE*
*
Amp:* Rivera M-60 (60 watts)

*Poweramp:* Electro Harmonix EL-34L x 2
*
Preamp:* Electro Harmonix 12ax7 x 4

:yawn:, right?

I really dig the sound of the amp, but there's something lacking... It feels like I get a bump in my mids right in the middle, and above. Also, the tubes are very crunchy, which is _mostly_ a good thing.

So, what I'm looking for is a setup with more low->low-mid range, a descent bit of crunch, but some added warmth. The amp has an adjustable bias so any and all options are on the table. So far Groff had some really great suggests but I'd like to hear what else is out there.


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## yellowv

Peavey 5150 JJ retube set. Normal gain pre's. I did have the blanced pre for the phase invertor blow about 10 minutes after putting it in. Uerotubes sent me a new one right away and it's been fine since. Sounds much better than the Sovteks that were in it.


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## thebhef

A Carvin Quad X with a SS power amp. The X is ok, but it doesn't quite have the drive I'm looking for.


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## agoz20

peavey 5150
( with jj kt88/6l6 set in the power amp, and ECC83S in the preamp ) = kt88 = teh br00talz = thunder

peavey xxx
( with jj kt77 in the power amp, and ECC83S in the preamp ) 
the kt77s are beautifully rich sounding tubes... amazing amazing.


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## Bound

Randy said:


> *LOOKING FOR ADVICE*
> *
> Amp:* Rivera M-60 (60 watts)
> 
> *Poweramp:* SED Winged "C" EL34
> *
> Preamp:* V1 Tung Sol 12AX7 or a Mullard 12AX7, V2+3 Either JJECC83's or Sovtek 12AX7LPWS V4 either a balance EHX 12AX7 or a Mullard 12AX7



that outta do ya good

You could also check out some 6CA7's. I dun care for them but they are a little bit of a different flavor.


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## op1e

Another advice post. Got a Peavey Ultra 120. Re-tubed many years ago with all Sovtek. Worried about tube failure, got a lot of shows this summer. Want it to sound a little clearer, smoother. Its Brutal, good low end, low mid. Just want it to sound a little less "Peavey".


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## Ketzer

Madison Divinity II

V1-V2: JJ ECC83S (High Gain)
V3 : JJ ECC83S
V4 (Inverter): Balanced JJ ECC83S

power section is a quad of matched JJ EL34Ls.


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## petereanima

meanwhile, i'm finally done with JJs. in the last 6 month i had 3 pairs of E34L dying, all in less than 6 weeks. the last pair died after 5 hours of playing - during the line check of our gig, and for the first time it also blew the main-fuse, and the tube-fuse exploded. damn, they sound cool, but reliability is really an issue with these bastards.

so, finally - i switched to SED 6550 winged Cs.

GOOOODDAAAAYYYYUMMM! i tried some different power-amp tubes, and while the change in the sound was noticable, i never thought that these tubes would change the sound THAT dramatically!

they almost give a new character to my amp, it has WAY more top end than ever before, which fits my amp as it is on the darker side of tone. the bass-response of the 6550s is nothing but amazing, i turned the bass-knob in the preamp ~20% back, and added more form the poweramp with the deep-knob. the poweramp settings (presence & deep) are muchmuch more usable than with the JJs. also it is tighter than ever before (which also results in a bit of a loss of the ÜBER-BASS the JJs delivered - but therefor i got the deep knob, you know?  ).

if these really are as reliable as everyone is telling - damn, i found finally _MY_ tubes.


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## signalgrey

Genz
E34L JJ's via Eurotubes
Nice n hot, good fullness, helps me take peoples heads off. increased head room is nice too for my bari.

retubing the Vox this weekend. first time. cant wait. love this amp soooo much.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

petereanima said:


> meanwhile, i'm finally done with JJs. in the last 6 month i had 3 pairs of E34L dying, all in less than 6 weeks. the last pair died after 5 hours of playing - during the line check of our gig, and for the first time it also blew the main-fuse, and the tube-fuse exploded. damn, they sound cool, but reliability is really an issue with these bastards.
> 
> so, finally - i switched to SED 6550 winged Cs.
> 
> GOOOODDAAAAYYYYUMMM! i tried some different power-amp tubes, and while the change in the sound was noticable, i never thought that these tubes would change the sound THAT dramatically!
> 
> they almost give a new character to my amp, it has WAY more top end than ever before, which fits my amp as it is on the darker side of tone. the bass-response of the 6550s is nothing but amazing, i turned the bass-knob in the preamp ~20% back, and added more form the poweramp with the deep-knob. the poweramp settings (presence & deep) are muchmuch more usable than with the JJs. also it is tighter than ever before (which also results in a bit of a loss of the ÜBER-BASS the JJs delivered - but therefor i got the deep knob, you know?  ).
> 
> if these really are as reliable as everyone is telling - damn, i found finally _MY_ tubes.



I'm using Sovtek 6550s and I keep hearing the SED 6550s are where it's at. I'm seriously considering copping a quad of these to see if there's a difference. Right now the amp is a little too round in the lows and the top end could be a little better, not to mention since the mod the mids are really active, so I don't really need the mid spike the Sovteks supply. It seems the issues I have could all be fixed with the SEDs..so I'll see.

I just ordered some JJ 12DW7s for the V2 and V3 slots of my amp to tame it's now crazy high gain..so I'll be able to report how that goes in a couple of days


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## zimbloth

The SEDs are what have been in all the 2009 Diezel amps I've sold. They sound awesome! However anything is an improvement over the usual rubbish most amps come with stock. 

I still prefer true KT88s though but 6550s are cool too. I use the JJ KT88s in my Fryettes/VHTs.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

UPDATE

So I got the JJ 12DW7s and I'm still feeling them out. They definately tame the amp but in a weird way. The gain is tamed, the volume seems to be tamed as well, and the amp is much darker and has a lot more bass now. And now there's a weird buzz, only there when I use the bridge pickup and when the NS-2 is off. The good thing is I can use a boost pedal in front without all the noise of before now and the gain is more flexible..although it feels weird having to turn the gain up high for metal now. I'm not really sure how I feel about the tubes. They have their good and bad points and it may just take a while for me to get used to them...I'll see.


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## danenachtrieb

amp: Crate Blue Voodoo 120

preamp tubes: JJ ECC83S

tubes: JJ E34L

just bought a retube kit from eurotubes and my amp sounds pretty damn good now


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## DrakkarTyrannis

REDO

So I switched the 12DW7 from the V3 slot and popped in the JJ that was there before, leaving only one 12DW7 which is in the V2 slot..magic...and end scene


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## petereanima

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I'm using Sovtek 6550s and I keep hearing the SED 6550s are where it's at. I'm seriously considering copping a quad of these to see if there's a difference. Right now the amp is a little too round in the lows and the top end could be a little better, not to mention since the mod the mids are really active, so I don't really need the mid spike the Sovteks supply. It seems the issues I have could all be fixed with the SEDs..so I'll see.



yeah, it sounds like you should go on the hunt for a quad of the SEDs! 

i meanwhile also re-eq-ed my amp several times, and have finally found _my_ settings. damn, i love those tubes.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

I'm thinking of scooping up the SEDs..but FIRST....I'm gonna try a quad of KT90s in my amp. I just spoke to Jerry and he set my amp up so that it'll work with almost any power tube that will fit inside the amp. So with the exception of wide bottle tubes, everything else is a go. So I wanna throw in a quad of KT90s to hear what they sound like.


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## pink freud

Egnater Tourmaster 100

Power Section: 4 TAD 6L6GC-STRs

Preamp Section:
V1: Ruby 12AX7AC5 HG+ For better cleans, gives less "spank" than the stock GT ECC83S
V2-4: Sovtek 12AX7 WC I find it has tighter gain, and has more clarity than the GT ECC83S
V5-8: Stock GT ECC83S Mostly because they operate the function rather than the tone, and the reverb is fine. And I didn't want to spend that much more money...


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## kmanick

Mesa Mark Iva
Ruby winged C 6l6's on the outside JJ 6l6's on the inside
Dougstubes preamp cocktail mix up front.
tungsol in V1 , 
JJ higain in V2 
Penta labs in V-3 (very cool tube for V3)
chinese 9th gen in V4 
sovteck balnced in Phase converter.
I had this mix in my Mark III too and it works well in the mark amps.
I want to try some different types of 6L6's any suggestions?


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## agriefobserved

Uberschall with (GT)KT77s


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## ChrisPcritter

1981 JCM 800 GE 6550's (that came in it NOS) JJ high gain and standard balanced PI. Sounds amazing and quiet. Tried a high gain PI and didn't like it in this amp. 

Rivera KHR with standard ECC83's and a set of the first KT77's that eurotubes got that are HOT. They did drift some in a couple hours use and I don't like them as well as the JJ E34L's that were in it. Gonna try 6L6's in it next.


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## helly

Peavey 5150EVH
V1 - Tung Sol 12ax7

The rest of the preamp is JJ ECC83.

Poweramp tubes are JJ 6L6.

Get a tech to bias it hotter and it absolutely screams. I've also heard 9th generation Shuguang 12ax7s are good for the rest of the preamp after the V1 but I have yet to try them.


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## Necrophagist777

JJ 6L6 and JJ 12AX7. Really takes out the harshness of the XXX.


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## boltzthrower

petereanima said:


> JJ, dont worry - you are not the first one having JJs dying and not the last one. FWIW: The Diezel guys told me at the fair, that they bought masses of JJs, and over 30% died already during testing, and even more within the first month at the customers, so it seems like that this is common...



I hear all this shit about how JJ's are so well built and Sovteks are crap. All's I know is I've had 4 different quads of Sovtek KT88's and I've never had one fail (knocks on wood). I had a quad of JJ KT88's and had a tube lose vacuum and go hyper thermal while I was biasing, gnarly smoke coming out(no, I was not running it hot.) It destroyed my bias probe and blew the fuse in my amp. The tube had like only a few hours use on it before it blew.

Alright, some opinions on different tubes I've tried. I play down tuned death metal through an ENGL 570 into a VHT 2/90/2 and I like a cool bias (55.5%, the sweet spot!)

I like the Sovtek KT88's better than anything. They're very tight, kinda bright, cold, and have the right amount of high-mid goin' on. The JJ's are warmer, looser, darker. One good thing, IMO, about the JJ's is the highs are nice, not as thin as with the Sovteks.

I've also tried EH 6550's. They sound like they're somewhere between the JJ's & Sovteks. A pretty good multi-purpose application tube sound I would say. One of them cracked and lost vacuum. I'm not sure how old it was though, they came in an amp I bought, the dude I bought it from said they were fairly new, but who knows.

I've also ran, in an ENGL SE E670, JJ 6L6gc's and SED winged C 6L6gc's. The difference between these tubes is much like the aforementioned difference between the Sovtek's & the JJ's. I didn't really test long enough to really go into detail, but I liked the Winged C's way better. Sounded pretty damn good I must say, but I still like KT88's better, they sound, umm, clearer(?) to me than 6L6gc's.


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## DeathMetalDean

.. all I know about my amp is that it's got 12ax7's in it xD (Fender Blues Junior)


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## tacotiklah

Peavey Windsor head - single channel

4 stock 12AX7s and 4 stock EL34s. I hate the lack of cleans at high volumes and the gain just isn't brutal enough. (hence me selling/partial trading it for a B-52 AT100 212)

I was on Eurotubes and for whatever reason they have NO tube sets for the Windsor. Any good tube recommendations for the Windsor and/or AT-100? I'm looking for cleans that remain so at higher volumes and 6505+ Arch Enemy (wages of sin album) type gain....


Edit: Ok so the windsor is sold and i'm the proud owner of a B-52 AT-212. I have only stock tubes in there right now. 512AX7s, 2 6l6s, 2 5881s, and 1 5AR4 recto tube.


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## col

Mako Mak2 White, =C= 6550's, preamp V1 NOS RFT V2-V5 JJ ecc83s
Peavey 6505 EHX 6L6GC's, preamp mix of Tungsol and chinese
Engl Powerball TAD 6L6, preamp mix of EHX and chinese


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## stokedtoast

We used an instrument cable plugging my peavey xxx into my vader cabinet ( short story short: crossfaded without a speaker cord makes one do stupid shit) I turned it up load and it made a loud noise then proceded to shut off. What am I to do? Well I went to the music store and replaced a 12ax7 just got home and put it in.. and nothing. 

Btw: this won't even turn on. I picked up a new speaker cord, got my power cord all in... but it won't light up or anything. 

What do I do? Is this an easy fix? Could I take it to a shop and get it fixed immediately? I need my amp asap because my band begins writing next week.


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## Ketzer

if it's not even turning on, I'd say it's the fuse. That's about the only component between the Power mains and the power light.


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## petereanima

stokedtoast said:


> We used an instrument cable plugging my peavey xxx into my vader cabinet ( short story short: crossfaded without a speaker cord makes one do stupid shit) I turned it up load and it made a loud noise then proceded to shut off. What am I to do? Well I went to the music store and replaced a 12ax7 just got home and put it in.. and nothing.
> 
> Btw: this won't even turn on. I picked up a new speaker cord, got my power cord all in... but it won't light up or anything.
> 
> What do I do? Is this an easy fix? Could I take it to a shop and get it fixed immediately? I need my amp asap because my band begins writing next week.



the 12AX7 is a preamp tube, this wont affect if your amp turns on or not usually.

with using an instrument cable, and now your amp not turning on, you blew of course the main fuse, replace that (its usually under the plug for the power cable), try switching on, if it turns on and again shuts down immedaitely, theres more to it.

if you are lucky, you "only" blew the power tubes, which then need to be replaced. if you are not so lucky, you blew the output transformer as well, this only a tech can fix, and it will be expensive!


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## Darth Nihilus

CrushingAnvil said:


> Randall RM100M w/ JJ E34L Power tubes and JJ 12AX7's in the preamp section.
> 
> reeeaaally wanna try Ruby 6L6's!


 
If you used JJ 6L6GC tubes, you already tried Ruby tubes. Ruby tubes are made by JJ electronics.


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## petereanima

Darth Nihilus said:


> If you used JJ 6L6GC tubes, you already tried Ruby tubes. Ruby tubes are made by JJ electronics.



no, most of them arent. Ruby DOES have a "CZ"-line (and a seperate "TESLA") in their tubes selection, these are JJs ("CZ" for Czech Republic), the others are from Russian and Chinese factories.

Ruby tubes suffixes:
CZ and TESLA = JJ / ex-Tesla
CB / STR / BHT = Chinese
CC = Cbetlaha (Russia)
R + EH = Reflector Russia (Sovtek + Electro Harmonix)
T = Tungsol


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## Nights_Blood

Engl Powerball-stock
4 6l6gc's in power section
4 12ax7's in pre

What can i do to give a little more warmth to the p-ball? Specifically to make the crunch channel thicker/useable and take a little of the edgy metallicness off the lead.

Are the stock tubes just crap? They seem pretty decent to me.


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## Thaeon

Budda Superdrive 45 

2xKT66
3x12ax7

Originally it had GT power tubes and Sovtek preamp tubes.

12ax7WB in V1 and 12ax7WA's in 2 & 3.

I put some reissue Genelex Gold Lions in the power section and put a Tung Sol 12ax7 Black Sable Gold Pin in V1 and moved the 12ax7WB to V2. 

The amp went from JCM900 territory to JVM410 territory. I took it to my friends practice space where he has 2 Randall 100 power amps into 2 4x12s. My 45 watt head on 1 4x12 is just as loud as his 200 watt rig on 2 4x12s.

I highly recommend these tubes...

I'm thinking about a JJ 803s Black Sable for the cathode follower position (V2), for more gain on channel 2 since Tung Sols fail a lot in that position.


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## cow 7 sig

amp-2channel dual rec
pre
v1-EH12ax7 gold pin
v2-svetlana 12ax7
v3-EH12ax7eh
v4-GTecc83
v5-rubytubes 12ax7

power
4x shuguang EL34b
2x jjgz34 rectifier tubes


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## tacotiklah

UPDATE:
A month or 2 ago I added a JJ ecc83 from eurotubes to the v1 of my B-52 preamp. It really opened up my amp. It's not so bassy anymore. It give more mids to my tone and when plugged into the hi output jack on the clean channel, instant clean SRV tone. It's amazing what a simple $10 upgrade can do.


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## Ultraworld

I have been using JJ tubes from Bob's Euro tubes for a long time in my 5150 Combo, THD Univalve, Buddha & Carvin amps. Never blown a tube yet. I know a great tech that keeps them running right, he tests every tube & makes sure it's correct for that amp. It means a bit of trial & error sometimes, but I get long tube life. The pre amp tubes last forever.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

So I took out the 6550s I was using and put in the KT90s again..OH MY GOD..why the fuck did I take these out in the first place? I think these needed to be burned in for a while to really show off. These things make my DTX roar. HUGE low end, thick low mids, punchy and aggressive and just amazing. I have to scale back the bass on my amp, but it's totally worth it. I don't think I'll ever use another tube again (unless I can find a way to land a quad of KT120s).


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## cow 7 sig

UPDATE
v1-tungsol gold 12ax7.im on the fench with this tube.
v2-JJ ecc803s gold,again on the fence
v3-shuguang 9th gen
v4- as above
v5-sovtek 12ax7lps.

power is all =C= 34s
still JJGZ34 rect tubes
i now have a fuckton of tubes to try and a few(more like 28) NOS tubes as well.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

After YEARS of having it in the PI slot, I retired the Sovtek 12AX7LPS, and put in that Tung Sol gold pin 12AX7 I had zero use for. I originally intended it for the V1 slot in my DTX but I didn't care for it. In the PI slot it gave the amp sharper teeth and the character of the amp isn't as sluggish as before. Not a drastic change in any way, but a nice one. I think I'll keep it there for the time being.


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## cow 7 sig

i plan to do that very change too drakk,see how it sounds in a recto.
i got a mullard 14mm short plate from 1954 to try in V1,as well as a few RFTs and a tungsram long black plate.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

Put a JJ ecc83s in the V4 slot..SO much better..whew lawd. Once again the Tung Sol is useless..


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## oniduder

umm diezel herbert kt88 sextet electro-harmonix style 

and diezel vh4 getting winged c sed 6550 killer style!

all the little 12ax7 jazz i can't remember sorry


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## Opeth666

Amp: Mesa Boogie Nomad 100
Power: JJ EL34s right now but going to try out some JJ KT88s
Preamp: 12Ax7s, but going to try some JJ ECC83s as well.


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## cow 7 sig

i put a raytheon 12ax7 from 1966 in V1 FUCK ME...WOW .


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## DrakkarTyrannis

Ha..just put the Sovtek back in the V4 slot..I'll stick with that. I guess sometimes "upgrading" isn't the best way to go.


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## cow 7 sig

yep agree.i put my LPS back in the PI slot on my recto.lol


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## Benzesp

Mesa Trip-Recto 2 Channel.
SED EL34's x6
JJ 12AX7 Pre amp kit.
Using Diode Rectifiers

Loud as hell, Punchy in the midrange as expected super clean and defined. Got this amp in a trade, already had a mismatched set of EL34's. I like it so much so I decided to stick with them when I re tubed. Went with JJ Pre's because they were super quiet in my old Splawn Quick Rod. No surprises here. If you have a recto, and don't like it, try some EL34's in it. I really thought the difference would be marginal at best.. Wrong.


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## cow 7 sig

i swear by =c= EL34s in my recto,and NOS tubes in the pre amp and rec tubes


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## DrakkarTyrannis

I put a JJ ECC82 in V2 of my amp to lower the insane gain and open it up a bit. I like what it did but it's a bit too open and crunchy instead of open and slightly less hotter than the normal 12AX7. I just ordered an ECC81(12AT7) as I figure it'll be a middle ground between the two and I'll report on what I think about it. If it goes well I'd like to try one in V4 for the phase inverter. So far the stock Sovtek 12AXTLPS beats everything else for that position but I'm open to try one more thing before just sticking with the Sovtek.


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## cow 7 sig

i put a pair of 50s made tung-sol 5u4gbs in the tube rec and really like the sound,more so than the jj gz34s i normally use.
also,V1 now has a mazda chrome silver plate 12ax7(early 60s) in there.its one of the rarest 12ax7s ever made.very crunchy,me like alot.


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## Johnology

Can anyone give me a wee bit of help? It didn't feel worth starting a thread when i don't think there is a lot involved.

In short, i know a lot about gear, guitars and amps, i can take apart a guitar andput it ack together again blind folded. But nothing at all about repairing/maintaining an amp.

I have a H&K switchblade. Playing through the speaker is a Marshall avt, (i wirsed it so that it would come out of the amp and straight onto the speaker). Obviously this is only so i can play it at home a wee bit rather than to act as a cab.

I'm now getting no sound from the Head, except for what sounds like a small buzz coming from the valves that sounds just like what i'm playing, and not a thing out of the speaker. Could it simply be that the speaker has packed it in from too much power going through it or could there be an actual problem with the head?

Just looking for an idea from people better educated than myself before i get the guns out and trek down to a practice space with real cabs.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

Just threw my new 12AT7 into V2 and I like a lot. It's aggressive, has a vicious "brightness" to it that's not shrill and it keeps the gain low, the amp quiet, and it oddly enough makes the amp tighter. I'm gonna wait until I burn in the tube completely, but at the current moment I don't even use my Bloody Murder..this tube seems to tighten everything up better than the pedal can. Honestly it DOES what I was using the BM to do.


----------



## cow 7 sig

v1 is still the mazda chrome.(very impressed)
v2 is a telefunkin(50s NOS diamond stamp)
V3 is a mullard(NOS 50s)
v4 is zariex branded RFT(german NOS 60s)
and v5 is still the LPS
also,swapped the tungsol 5u4s for a pair of sylvania 5u4gb.
amp has a whole new roar and crunch to it.
gain stays at 12 noon.still plenty there lol.
still with =C= EL34s


----------



## StupidDav

Got an EH 12AT7 for my 6505 and tried a load of places.............

V5 - too harsh and brittle, tightened up the lows a bit but not 'nuff balls
V1 - lowered the gain considerably, but I found the tone too flubby and wooly after a while
V2 - lowered the gain a little less than in V1, but the tone still gets flubby and wooly
V3 - slight reduction in gain, made the amp a little clearer, not flubby like in V1/2. Thats where it stayed.

At the moment my pre tubes are

V1 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS
V2 - JJ 12AX7
V3 - Electro Harmonix 12AT7
V4 - JJ 12AX7
V5 - Sovtek 12AX7LPS

Stock Rubys in the power
Think I might get another pre tube or two in my search for clarity and punch.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

I bought another 12AT7 for the V4 PI slot to try it. After a while of use, the Sovtek won again. I've learned my lesson. Nothing but the Sovtek 12AX7LPS goes in V4...however I replaced the V1 tube I had with the new 12AT7..magic. It lowered the gain to where the entire scope can be used without going overboard and it just kills.


----------



## Jo3yJJ123

I want something that'll give me the tightest lowend I can get, with a lot of Mid kick, not too much highs though.
Suggestion?
Running on el34's and ecc83's
Stock (the amps brand new)


----------



## smucarolina

just put kt88's in everything.

drak says so. so it makes your amp sound better.












tube snobs.


----------



## Customisbetter

Pre - GSP2101
GT 12AT7, JJ 12AX7

Power:

=Carvin T100
2xchinese 12ax7
4x mesa el34s

=Fryette 2/90/2
2x EHX 12ax7
2x 12au7
4x Sovtek NOS KT88


----------



## Grindwalker

Hey guys, my first post after reading a lot on here.

In my Peavey Triple X i use:

4 x JJ6l6GC in the Poweramp

and in the Preamp:
V1: Tung Sol 12AX7
V2: TT12AX7 (Chinese made, from the german store TubeTown. I don´t know how this tube is called elsewhere)
V3: Groove Tubes 12AX7R2
PI: Sovtek LPS

The previous owner had it running with all EH12AX7 in the preamp and also JJ6l6GC in the poweramp, but switched it to EL34 mode, don´t know why, Maybe to run them hotter? Didn´t break anything, but sounded kinda meh... very brittle and fuzzy in the high end (what lots of people dislike about the XXX) while being kinda flubby in the lowend. 

With the new tube setup it sounds a lot different, thight but big lowend, aggressive but not shrill highs and a good midrange punch. Also it has somewhat less gain, but hey, a XXX has way too much of that anyways.

I was extremely astonished, how well this amp reacts to changes in the different tube slots, in my previous amp (Engl Fireball) tube changes were barely noticeable.


----------



## DrakkarTyrannis

smucarolina said:


> just put kt88's in everything.
> 
> drak says so. so it makes your amp sound better.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tube snobs.



Damn right..KTs are the way to go.


----------



## GPDUSA

Wanted to show this to everyone, forum member Cygnus X1 (I believe he posts here as well) over on mylespaul.com did a test when we sent him some PM Tubes (which we exclusively sell) to try. He's an amp builder and a tube fanatic. Very extensive test, very informative, he did a great job. Enjoy!



Cygnus X1 said:


> Got a few PM tubes to test, try out, and give some opinions on.
> I use all kinds of tubes, from NOS, used vintage, new, newer, and
> whatever is kicking around in the parts drawer.
> My tube tester is a Hickok 6000A, a portable used by techs in the field
> "back in the day".
> It was calibrated before I bought it, and I trust it.
> I use a set of tubes to test just for calibration only and it is running
> within spec.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have not played the tubes yet, here is my test results and opinion thus far:
> Tube Test:
> Hickok Model 6000A Dynamic Mutual Conductance tester
> First tested expected sample Fender branded Chinese 12AX7A
> for calibration sample.
> Normal Mutual Conductance: Normal is 1250.
> Sample Tested at 1400/1425.
> Life test good, stays in the positive 1/3 range, -4 mark drop.
> NOTE: _Life test is subjective, I measure by the amount of drop_
> _under load. Hickok manual indicates if it stays in the green, it is OK_.
> 
> PM 12AX7A #1: Strong silk screen.
> Pins were bent, straightened to fit in the tester socket.
> Marked Made in China.
> Filament Continuity: OK
> Triode #1: Tests Good
> 1350 Mut Cond.
> Life test 3 mark drop (Good)
> Triode #2:
> Filament: OK
> Test: Good
> 1325 Mut. Cond.
> Life test 5 mark drop (good).
> Conclusion: Tube tests moderate, stronger than most premium NOS,
> softer than most Chinese.
> 
> PM 12AX7A #2: Weak silk screen.
> Pins also bent, all over to one side. Straightened.
> Filament: OK
> Triode #1: Tests Good (Low)
> 1075 Mut. Conductance (Low)
> Life test 3 mark drop (Good)
> Triode #2:
> Filament: OK
> Test: Good (Low)
> 1100 Mut. Cond. (Low)
> Life Test: -3.5 drop (Good)
> 
> Conclusion: Significant difference between the two 12AX7 tubes.
> Although they should last a long time there should be a noticeable
> difference in gain characteristics.
> Both were well balanced from one triode to the other.
> Either tube could be used as a phase inverter.
> Not sure why the pins were bent, the boxes look good and the
> tubes were not bottomed out in the boxes.
> 
> PM6L6GC:
> Base looks cheap, sharp corners on the top of the base.
> Has an appearance of plastic rather than bakelite.
> Silk screened, no other markings other than the silk screen
> on the tube glass.
> No indication of manufacturer or country of origin on the
> tube or on the box.
> Shipped in a duet.
> 6L6GC #1:
> Filament: OK
> Test: Good
> Expected Mut Cond: 5000 Tests 5250 (Good)
> Life Test: -2.0 (Good)
> 6L6GC #2:
> Filament: OK
> Test: Good
> Mut Cond: 4950 (Weak)
> Life Test: -.5 (Excellent)
> 
> Conclusion: 6L6 is near the top of the range of the tester.
> Although it tests accurately I depend on actual amplifier conditions
> to detect any mismatch. Mutual conductance is always borderline
> at this range.
> I can tell more from current draw on the line test, which was within 5%,
> which usually indicates a good match.


 
The sound test will be the next post...


----------



## GPDUSA

Cygnus X1 said:


> Playing/listening tests:
> First the guitar...1981 or 82 Phantom A5.
> Some info here:
> The Hamer Prototype[/URL]
> Andy Summers used this guitar for the Police "Synchronicity" album.
> It has a good LP sound with the bridge HB and a ringing clear sound
> with either bridge or neck single coil.
> Also has a good "Rosewood FB" Tele sound.
> Other players that favor this guitar are Steve Stevens (Billy Idol)
> and Glenn Tipton (Judas Priest) who went with different trem systems for it.
> Mine is just after the Prototype:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shown without that goofy looking scratchplate.
> 
> The amp is the Cygnus-7 combo.
> 2x12AX7, single ended 6L6GB or GC for the power tube.
> Good, touch sensitive amp when dialed in just on the
> verge of breakup.
> First I installed both the PM 12AX7's to isolate the power tube tests.
> Tube #1: Groove Tubes 6L6GTR grade#7.
> Quiet...but kind of cold. Breakup is fizzy sounding...like a broken speaker.
> The speaker is a Celestion G12M70, no risk of breakup...so it's a tube
> making that sound.
> Tube#2: 1960's GE 6L6GC:
> Cleaner, more headroom. Adjusted volume for more breakup.
> Midrange more pronounced, it started to "bloom" easily
> fretting on the D and G strings.
> Harmonics noticeably more pronounced.
> Tube #3: PM 6L6GC
> Volume went down from the GE.
> Adjusted again for a bit of breakup.
> Distortion wasn't bad like the Groove Tubes 6L6 was,
> but it sounded muffled.
> Upper midrange was pronounced, but no bloom
> unless I really wheeled up the volume...and that is a
> result of the speaker reacting to the guitar.
> Another thing...the tube was noticeably hotter when
> pulled.
> I gave it ten minutes to cool like the others.
> Tube#4: Conn 6L6GB (RCA)
> Volume output lower (It's a GB rather than a GC).
> Clear, very high headroom...the most of them all.
> Did not bloom as easily as the GE did.
> Nice breakup at twice the volume setting on the amp.
> But the animals look scared and my wife came out and gave me a funny look...
> (No wonder they used this for an organ tube)!
> Tube #5: the other PM 6L6GC
> Sounded much clearer than the first one.
> Not as good as the GE or RCA, but far better than
> the Groove Tubes.
> It didn't get as hot as the first PM.
> So ranking:
> 1: Conn/RCA cleanest
> 2: GE best tone, best breakup, and nice bloom at low volume.
> Some people would consider that to be microphonic in high gain situations though.
> 3: PM #2: Like a cross between GE and RCA, nice sounding tube
> 4: PM #1: Muddy, but not as bad as
> 5: Groove Tubes. I already know why they get a bad rep, this confirms it.
> 12AX7 test in the next post.


 
Thanks again to Cygnus X1 for doing all these tests for us, he spent a lot of his time to do this and we really appreciate it.


----------



## TheWreck

What can I use instead of 6V6 power amp tubes? I'd like something to replace them to get rid of the Fat bottom end their giving me.

Thanks


----------



## petereanima

TheWreck said:


> What can I use instead of 6V6 power amp tubes? I'd like something to replace them to get rid of the Fat bottom end their giving me.



Is that for your homemade-amp out of the other thread? If so, no one will be able to tell withtout the EXACT schematic, and then a tech should measure it.


----------



## TheWreck

petereanima said:


> Is that for your homemade-amp out of the other thread? If so, no one will be able to tell withtout the EXACT schematic, and then a tech should measure it.


 
Yes it's for my vintage amp out of the other thread...thanks for the reply i will look at that closely with the technician at my job! 

Cheers!


----------



## s5470Pro

VHT Pitbull G100Cl

4-El34's for power, 3 12ax7 pre.

Looking to maybe check out the JJ's


----------



## Vostre Roy

Just changed my lamps, here what I've put:

Amp Model: Engl Thunder 50
Preamp: Engl ECC83 FQ x4
Power Amp: Tube Doctor 6L6GC x2

Will try it a little more and edit this post later to give my impression. So far, nice deep sound, delivers a little more gain but the clean stay smooth and nice.


----------



## Greatoliver

Just wondering if I could get some advice:

I've got a 6505+ combo, and was looking at changing the tubes. I've currently got JJ 6L6 in the power section, which I like, but I have a TS 12AX7 in V1, and JJ Ax7 in the rest.

I've been a bit disatisfied with the tone of the JJs in the preamp, they are quite thin and dry sounding. I swapped some around with the stock Ruby tubes, and prefered the tone, but the Ruby tubes gave too much low end, and weren't really tight enough.

So I was looking at putting a Sovtek 12Ax7LPS in the PI, and putting in 2 GT 12AX7-C in the preamp section (on a budget  ). The GTs are supposedly relabeled Shunguang tubes, and are meant to compliment the amp well. However, I wanted some more opinions, so does anyone have any comments on this selection?


----------



## Zeff

fja modded 6505 - full jj tubes high gain set (euro tubes)

Sounds great, very dark punchy and grindy


----------



## paistelakai

I could use a little help as well....currently I have a Peavey xxx, with sovtek 6l6wxts in the power, and ehx 12ax7s in the pre. 

the chain is ts9>decimator>xxx>mesa oversized 4x12

I got the amp used, and don't really know if the tubes are bad, not for me, or if the overall amp isn't for me. Basically the tone is just really thin...everything is super tight, (with a ts9), but it seems like all i get is attack for the most part. I was thinking of trying kt77s, but idk if just a diff brand of 6l6 will do the trick. Maybe new pre tubes? Any suggestions?


----------



## thedestroyerofall

I got a few original american tubes in my 6505+ now. slyvannia i'm not sure as they're from the 80s, and the orginal words have been rubbed off.


----------



## pearl_07

Amp Model:6505+
Power Amp:=C= SED 6L6GC's
Preamp: Tung-Sol/gold pinned JJ in V1 and JJ 12AX7's for the rest(balanced PI JJ in V6)

The Ruby's that were previously in it weren't "bad", but the SED's definitely make this amp even better. I've been playing around with a gold pinned JJ in V1, but I think I like the the Tung-Sol more.


----------



## thedestroyerofall

pearl_07 said:


> Amp Model:6505+
> Power Amp:=C= SED 6L6GC's
> Preamp: Tung-Sol/gold pinned JJ in V1 and JJ 12AX7's for the rest(balanced PI JJ in V6)
> 
> The Ruby's that were previously in it weren't "bad", but the SED's definitely make this amp even better. I've been playing around with a gold pinned JJ in V1, but I think I like the the Tung-Sol more.



honestly, i totally hated the ruby's in my 6505. the distortion wasn't as warm as i expected, but with the new (or old lol) american tubes, It's almost exactly the tone i wanted.


----------



## pearl_07

They weren't as bad as I expected them to be honestly. For ~$50 for a quartet, I wouldn't mind throwing them in if I were in a full time touring band instead of spending over twice as much for a quartet of SED's.
LINK
Here is a really interesting clip comparison of the tubes that shows that the Ruby's aren't as bad as they could be for less than half the price.


----------



## sevenstringer37

Adding to the thread, I just picked up a Randall T2 400w head. Threw in three mullard 12ax7's (not nos  haha) since the stock EH tubes were old and working sporadically. I know the T2s a hybrid amp, but do you guys know of any tube combo that would work better to smooth out the mids, get a bit more growl and sizzle with? I wish I had my Tungsols from my 5150 still, those were pretty good in V1.


----------



## thedestroyerofall

sevenstringer37 said:


> Adding to the thread, I just picked up a Randall T2 400w head. Threw in three mullard 12ax7's (not nos  haha) since the stock EH tubes were old and working sporadically. I know the T2s a hybrid amp, but do you guys know of any tube combo that would work better to smooth out the mids, get a bit more growl and sizzle with? I wish I had my Tungsols from my 5150 still, those were pretty good in V1.



Ah, When you say EH do you mean the electro harmonix?


----------



## sevenstringer37

thedestroyerofall said:


> Ah, When you say EH do you mean the electro harmonix?



Yup, Electro harmonixxxx


----------



## evolusean13

*I need some Tech support.*

My 5150 is dying out at the moment, looking to change all the tubes (pre and power). I am interested in the Tung Sol 12AX7's, I hear some nice things. As for the power tubes, i want to get the SED winged C 6L6GCs. I hear amazing things about these tubes, and really want to try them out. I was wondering about the difference between a winged C 6L6 and a regular 6L6. And also, about the difference about the 6L6GC and the regular 6L6. I know that if my amp says 6L6 it is okay to put in 6L6GC because it is a higher output, but I want to know if it is still alright because I'm dying to try these tubes and order them already.

Thanks.


----------



## munizfire

Mesa/Boogie Rectoverb Series 2 Solo Head (Basically a Single Rectifier with reverb)


Pre-amp: Stock Mesa 12AX7s

Power: Actually it has 2 SED Winged Cs 6l6 (which I love to death)
I have also used:
JJs E34Ls (mehh)
Svetlana EL34s (love them as hell too)
Groove Tubes 6L6s Blackplate (they were ok)


----------



## evolusean13

*In addition to my last post.*

I've been reading a lot about tubes on here. Everyone is using different preamp tubes in their heads. This opens up a whole range of possibilities for me 

I am now interested in the Mullard 12AX7s. Would these pair well with the Tung-Sols? I was thinking:
V1: gold pinned Tung-sol
V2+V3: Mullard
V4: gold pinned mullard
V5: (reg) Tung-Sol.

What website do you guys go to for tubes? I hear Doug'sTubes is great, as well as Tube Depot.



Thnks!


----------



## munizfire

Valve Queen ... she's excellent!


----------



## N1h1l1ty

Just ordered 2 matched pairs of Shuguang EL34-B (Rebranded RubyEL34B-STR) and 4 Shuguang 12AX7-Bs for my JSX. After 3 years of being run at gig volume I suppose I should be giving her a refresher. Hoping for good things ^_^


----------



## KAMI

Amp: engl savage 60
Power-amp tubes: x2 Ruby EL34, x1 ruby ECC83
Preamp tubes: x3 ruby ECC83


----------



## Gabe_LTD

Amp; Krank Revolution 1 ( 100 watts) 

My cab is a Rivera k41213 with Celestion T-75's

I don't have a pre amp


----------



## col

col said:


> Mako Mak2 White, =C= 6550's, preamp V1 NOS RFT V2-V5 JJ ecc83s
> Peavey 6505 EHX 6L6GC's, preamp mix of Tungsol and chinese
> Engl Powerball TAD 6L6, preamp mix of EHX and chinese



Update, since the PV and Engl are gone.

The Mako still has the same set.

Diezel Herbert:

Power: SED =C= 6550
Pre: V1-4 JJ ecc83s V5-6 Shuguang chinese.

I like how the JJ's sound in the Herbert. The tone is a bit smoother and thicker compared to the chinese (Ruby, TAD) tubes that Diezel suggests to be used with the amp.


----------



## cedrac

My amp : LM 100w (all tube russian jcm800 like)
preamp :
v1 : JJ 12ax7
v2 : Svetlana 12ax7 (s logo)
v3 : Sovtek 12ax7wc

amp : 4xEL34 svetlana (s logo)

I think that I tested all the current production...

cabinet : Framus with 2x v30

This set up Can be listened there


----------



## stevo1

I just removed the god awful stock power tubes from my Bugera 333 tonight, And threw in a quad of JJ Kt77's, Biased them, and played on them for a while. Even right off the bat, they sound awesome, They're thick sounding, rich with mids, and have great lows, and smooth highs. They are working great for what I play which is death metal. I also replaced the JJ 12ax7's in the v2 and v4/p.i. position with a JJ 12at7 in v2, and a sovtek 12ax7lps balanced in the v4. It lowered the gain by a lot, and I dont know if I like it yet. It has greater clarity now, but I have to turn the gain up now for what I do. I dont really need the boost anymore, but its more of a tone shapening tool than a low end tightener.
I enjoy it more than my XXX with similar tubes in it. 

Bugera 333,
V1: JJ 12ax7, Mid to high gain kind
V2: JJ 12at7, lowers the gain substantially, made it sound thicker.
V3: JJ 12ax7 Mid to high gain kind.
V4: Sovtek 12ax7lps balanced, kind of makes the amp a little sludgier, but much thicker than the high gain 12ax7 that was there before.
V5-V8: JJ KT77's matched quad. awesome sounding power tube.

Peavey XXX
V1: JJ 12ax7 Mid gain kind
V2: JJ 12ax7 Higher gain kind.
V3: JJ cc803s Interesting tube, I like It, Make the amp sound more open I guess.
V4: Balanced JJ 12ax7. Nothing special about it.
V5-V8: JJ EL34 Matched Quad.


----------



## stevemcqueen

ADVICE NEEDED

I have a Peavey Ultra 60 that I need to replace the tubes in. I am looking for something that has nice strong mids, crisp highs, and a really tight bottom end that can handle 7 and 8 string tunings. I need a decent amount of gain but also want really awesome cleans. I am not going to say that "d" word but that is what I am looking for. I have no knowledge of tubes so what should I look at getting?


----------



## Unknown Doodl3.2

Rackmounted Mesa/Boogie Mark III green stripe.

Pre:

v1: Mesa 12ax7
v2: Groove Tubes 12ax7
v3: RFT 12ax7 NOS
v4: Groove Tubes 12ax7
v5: Mesa 12ax7

Power:

Currently running 4 Mesa 6L6's STR440... only because I can't afford another quad of Winged Cs... those are just too good sounding.


----------



## guitarist10

I just bought an ENGL E350 preamp with a Peavey Classic 50/50 power amp. I'm looking to get the best djent tone out of it. What should I use for tubes?


----------



## monkeywrench

5150 head ... Ruby 6L6GC-MSTR Mathched Quad... EH 12ax7 PI tube rest 12ax7 Rubys


----------



## mayx

*Engl Invader 100*

*Poweramp*
V1-V4: Tung Sols EL34B
*
Hi Gain Sounds* 
V5 (Input and 2.Stage): Genalex Gold Lion ECC83
V6 (Lead Driver and 3.Stage): Tung Sol ECC83 symmetrical
V7 (FX Buffer and P.A. Driver): TAD ECC83 (the one with the sharper Sound)
V8 (Phase Shift Converter): NOS JAN Philips ECC82

*Clean/Lo-Mid Gain Sounds* 
V5 (Input and 2.Stage): Genalex Gold Lion ECC83
V6 (Lead Driver and 3.Stage): NOS JAN Philips ECC82
V7 (FX Buffer and P.A. Driver): TAD ECC83 (the one with the sharper Sound)
V8 (Phase Shift Converter): TAD ECC83 (the one with the warmer, rounder Sound)


----------



## Seanthesheep

hey guys what are the sonic signs of power tubes needing to be replaced?


----------



## mcleanab

guitarist10 said:


> I just bought an ENGL E350 preamp with a Peavey Classic 50/50 power amp. I'm looking to get the best djent tone out of it. What should I use for tubes?




Yeah, me too!

I'm thinking a Tung Sol and a Penta-C... or two Penta-C's... 

I used the Pentas in my old ADA MP-1 and it opened it wide open... lots of growl, lots of space but heavy as hell. The JJ's are just too bitey in my opinion... the Tung Sols have a bit of bite as well in my experience, but this all, of course, depends on the amp/preamp you are using.

I can't wait to do some tube rolling in my BRAND NEW e530 when it gets here... 

What comes in them stock? JJ's?


----------



## VBCheeseGrater

Blackstar HT20

V1 (cleans) - Groovetubes Gold Series 12AX7 - Glassy & warm, nice highs. Much better than stock

V2 (Dirty) - Groovetubes Gold Series 12AX7 - Glassy, round, tons of highs, more classic rock like, I went back to the stock Sovtek 12AX7 for a better metal tone,


----------



## DMONSTER

So a question, my 5150iii takes whats called 6L6WXT power tubes, so i was wondering when time comes to replace them, can i just get any 6L6's? or do they have to be the 6L6WXT's? cus i cant find them on doug's tubes site at all


----------



## Ashofgod

I have a dual rectifier. I use jjs 6l6s, jjs high gain pre amp section, and gz34s.
I must say the tone improvement is amazing. We play experimental/post metal.
My head is set at 11:00 on volume, and the tone is so much better than the mesa tubes.
But what other tubes can i use that will do better than the jjs without breaking the bank?
And what about jt88s without re biasing?
Any input is appreciated!


----------



## Moe110

Hey everyone, need some advice and any suggestions on this! I have the option to buy a Peavey classic 60 power amp, art power plant preamp and an Alesis midi verb 4 all in a rack case for $600!! My gear set up right now is a Kustom Quad 100HD (head & cab) and a Boss GT-100. The Kustom Head has had a send/return mod installed but for some reason the guys who installed it bypassed all the heads components, NONE OF THE KNOBS WORK! So my question is....Is this gear worth the $600, Are there better options for the price? and Would it work nicely with the GT-100? Cheers any feedback would be awesome!!


----------



## sstepho

Hey i wanna replace all the tubes in my amp. 
So how many tubes do i need? :\ 8? and then more for the preamp? i dont even know


----------



## Gothic Headhunter

*Amp: * Randall rt50h
*Preamp:* 12AX7
*Power:* EL34

It came with 6L6s, but I didn't really like the sound at all, so I put in some EL34s, and it sounds better. Not a massive improvement, but definitely noticeable. I've gotten a few good stoner/doom tones out of it, and one great clean tone. Overall, I'm satisfied.


----------



## decoy205

5150 Block letter

Purchase used with Rubys and a mix of crappy low end tubes in pre. Lots of gain but harsh highs and plenty of noise. 

Andy Fuchs biased a quad of TAD 6l6's in the power section that brought the noise down quiet a bit. 

The pre I changed to dougs tubes Rock package.

V1 Tung sol
V235 Penta
V4 sovtek LPS PI

Haven't recorded with it yet but cleans are much better and gain and eq are more useable.


----------



## hugoazevedo

This thread is a great idea, but unfortunately there isn't much participation, so far. There must be so many people out there in the same position as me trying to figure out where to turn in the sea of tubes that are available. Does anyone know of any other threads of this kind or some sort of database?

I'm in the process of finding out the best tube configuration for:

Framus Cobra
Engl Savage 120
Engl Powerball
Peavey 6505+
Marshall DSL50

I will post my findings when I have them!

Thanks!


----------



## kreaturesleeper

My 5150: EH12ax7 in V1-V4, and a Sovtek 12ax7LPS in the phase inverter slot. Running NOS Sylvania 6l6gc str387's in the power section.


----------



## eklundh

ENGL Blackmore... wanted a smoother, darker / warmer sounding amp...

V1: Tung-Sol 12ax7 Reissue - creates smooth distortion and sounds not as bright/harsh as people claim (at least in my amp)
V2: TT ECC83 - pretty warm tube, get's rid of some of the harshness of the ENGL, for V1 it's too dark + a bit too tame
V3: JJ ECC83s - nice mids, further decrease of the treblieness
V4(PI): Sovtek 12ax7LPS - seems to smooth out things even further


----------



## will_shred

My Egnater came with Ruby 6L6's, though eventually I'm thinking about swapping them for EL-34's. My thoughts are it would give the amp a bit more bite and clarity, so maybe I won't have to boost it to get it to sound amazing. Not that I mind boosting it, but taking away the tube screamer is just one less thing to carry when I gig. 

thoughts?


----------



## Pav

Seanthesheep said:


> hey guys what are the sonic signs of power tubes needing to be replaced?


Your amp will be noticeably quieter. You'll find yourself cranking outputs/masters much higher than usual to achieve the same volume. You're also likely to achieve less natural breakup than usual, as well more noise clouding your tone, depending on how far gone they are.



DMONSTER said:


> So a question, my 5150iii takes whats called 6L6WXT power tubes, so i was wondering when time comes to replace them, can i just get any 6L6's? or do they have to be the 6L6WXT's? cus i cant find them on doug's tubes site at all


They don't necessarily have to be WXT's. Any type of 6L6 will work, but be aware that different types of 6L6's have different quirks to them. A different type may not last as long or sound the same as another set of 6L6's. However, I've heard fairly consistently that 6L6WXT's aren't the greatest to begin with, so it may be worthwhile to try another type. Just make sure you buy a full, matched set of power tubes. Same type, same manufacturer. Mixing power tubes can be bad for your amp, but if you get a matched set, the worst you can count on is having to take your amp for re-biasing.



Ashofgod said:


> I have a dual rectifier. I use jjs 6l6s, jjs high gain pre amp section, and gz34s.
> I must say the tone improvement is amazing. We play experimental/post metal.
> My head is set at 11:00 on volume, and the tone is so much better than the mesa tubes.
> But what other tubes can i use that will do better than the jjs without breaking the bank?
> And what about jt88s without re biasing?
> Any input is appreciated!


The fixed bias selector of Mesa amps makes them fairly inflexible for swapping tubes. If you're looking at something besides EL34's or 6L6's you could be faced with taking your amp somewhere for a mod, which would be quite costly. The best advice I can give you is to look around online for mod-free Mesa power tube kits. I know some sites offer sets of KT88's and the like specifically for Mesas that don't require any kind of mod or bias adjustment. They're more expensive but they're an immediate plug-and-play replacement.



sstepho said:


> Hey i wanna replace all the tubes in my amp.
> So how many tubes do i need? :\ 8? and then more for the preamp? i dont even know


Depends on your amp. Look in the back. Power tubes will be big, right in front of you and easy to count. Preamp tubes are hidden so you'll have to count the cylindrical metal shields you see sticking out. Don't quote me on this, but as a general rule of thumb, amps have two tubes per section per 50W of power. So a 50W amp would most likely have two preamp tubes and two power tubes, while a 100W amp would have 4 of each. It depends on your amp though, just look in the back and count them.



will_shred said:


> My Egnater came with Ruby 6L6's, though eventually I'm thinking about swapping them for EL-34's. My thoughts are it would give the amp a bit more bite and clarity, so maybe I won't have to boost it to get it to sound amazing. Not that I mind boosting it, but taking away the tube screamer is just one less thing to carry when I gig.
> 
> thoughts?


In my experience, it won't make any difference. 6L6's are warmer and thicker, EL34's are brighter. Neither are going to immediately make so much of a difference that you no longer need a boost - the possible exception being if you swap out a stock set of tubes for something labeled "high gain tubes," but you could get sets of those in either 6L6 or EL34, it all depends on which tonal flavor you prefer for your amp. Even then I have yet to find any tubes out there that are THAT big of a gain boost.


----------



## SP1N3SPL1TT3R

I just swapped out my EL34s for some EHX 6AC7s. I highly recommend them if your EL34s to sound like 6L6s, or you 6L6s to sound a little more like EL34s.


----------



## bifftannen

Peavey 5150 combo
JJ 6L6's in power and JJ ECC83S's in pre. I'm using the high gain option from Eurotubes.


----------



## Mongoose

Jet City JCA100HDM with all JJ's (power and pre-amp) except for the V1 which is a Tung-Sol. Boosted with Boss Metal Zone in Front, and Dano Fish 'n Chips EQ pedal in FX loop. Here is a link to a sound demo -> Jet City JCA100HDM Metal Demo. - YouTube


----------



## Mega-Mads

Help me!
Kt88/kt66 combo in a dual rectifier?

Opinions Opinions Opinions PLZ!!!


----------



## cwhitey2

In my 2 channel dual rec (if I remember correctly):

A quad of JJ E34Ls

high gain JJ ECC83S's for V1, V2, V3, a standard ECC83S for V4 and a balanced ECC83S for V5.

Gz34 rec tubes

I got the "High Gain Option with E34L's" from euro tubes.


The thing slayssss


----------



## Vostre Roy

Retubed both my Dark Terror and Traynor Bassmaster, Preferred Series and JJ KT77 comes from here: www.thetubestore.com - Your online source for audio tubes.

*Amp:* Orange Dark Terror 15w

*Preamp:* 
V1, V2 and V3: Preferred Series 7025/12AX7
V4: Electro Harmonix 12AU7

*Poweramp:*
V5 and V6: Preferred Series 7189/EL84

*Review:* Tried it quickly using my Telecaster, got a little more "roar" and fuzz in the sound, have to check with another guitar as I feel like I lost some bottom end, but the Tele is so bright that it might be its fault lol

&shy;&shy;&shy;&shy;&shy;&shy;___________________________________________


*Amp:* 1972 Traynor Bassmaster

*Preamp:*
V1, V2 and V3 changed to the Engl ECC83 that were in my Engl Thunder 50

*Poweramp:*
V4 and V5: JJs KT77

*Review:* I plan to use this amp to play doom metal using various pedal. As for now, I still have to mod it because the amount of bass in it is overwhelming, but the KT77 and ECC83 did gave a little more natural gain.


----------



## BladeDTMGuitarist

Marshall MA100H with Mullard Reissue EL34, and 12AX7 Tubes


----------



## KingOfTheRotten

I am playing a triamp mk1 with 6l6s and the standard tubes. I am thinking of changing at least the tubes in the third amp section (higain) because i use that The most and Want an even better Sound of. I just don't know what tubes i should get


----------



## jmeezle

Hey guys, 

I just got a new Carvin TS100 delivered today. They come stock with EL34's and since this is my first tube amp I know zero about tubes. I've heard that 6L6's are the way to go, what do you guys think?

Thanks!


----------



## leechmasterargentina

Hi All.

I have a simple question regarding 2 preamps equiped with 12AX7's. Last time I was using them I had a power outage which lasted miliseconds; like if someone had turned it off and on suddently. I checked things next day and they seem to keep working fine, but I was wondering that if the 12AX7 tubes I have in both preamps could have got damaged from that situation, added that one of them was providing phantom power to one of my condensers. I'm worried about that too, but the condenser seems to work fine. Both microphone preamps are low voltage, meaning the power going into them is 9v.

I'm worried because I replaced stock tubes from those preamps and I could say they are good tubes to my taste and really hard to get in my town. One of them is a Tung-Sol 12AX7 reissue and the other one is a Sovtek 12AX7WB.

Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## vick1000

leechmasterargentina said:


> Hi All.
> 
> I have a simple question regarding 2 preamps equiped with 12AX7's. Last time I was using them I had a power outage which lasted miliseconds; like if someone had turned it off and on suddently. I checked things next day and they seem to keep working fine, but I was wondering that if the 12AX7 tubes I have in both preamps could have got damaged from that situation, added that one of them was providing phantom power to one of my condensers. I'm worried about that too, but the condenser seems to work fine. Both microphone preamps are low voltage, meaning the power going into them is 9v.
> 
> I'm worried because I replaced stock tubes from those preamps and I could say they are good tubes to my taste and really hard to get in my town. One of them is a Tung-Sol 12AX7 reissue and the other one is a Sovtek 12AX7WB.
> 
> Thanks in advance guys.


 
Hard to believe a surge from a 9v DC source would hurt a 12AX7 much. Unless it was a direct strike and you see smoke damage on the sockets.


----------



## Carver

1965 fender bassman amp

2 6l6 EHX in the power section - Preamps are all Tung sol


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

VHT Pitbull 100 w eq

JJ E34L for power

V1 mesa
V2 GT ax7-c
V3 JJ ecc 83 s
V4 (pi) china ax7-b

Sounds great with passives and a maxon 808.

Would like to try different power tubes but the JJ have served me well for quite a while.


----------



## MildlyMoist

Jet City JCA22H

5x Electro Harmonix 12AX7
2x Electro Harmonix EL84

Far too much gain all over the place. Any ideas ?

Got the OD (Soldano designed) channel on 1-2 and it's already gain city up in here.


----------



## Mordacain

MildlyMoist said:


> Jet City JCA22H
> 
> 5x Electro Harmonix 12AX7
> 2x Electro Harmonix EL84
> 
> Far too much gain all over the place. Any ideas ?
> 
> Got the OD (Soldano designed) channel on 1-2 and it's already gain city up in here.



You could experiment with replacing the V1 with a 12AT7 (ECC81) or an old long plate 12AX7 (RCA, Brimax, Hammond, etc) for starters. Also could try mixing in a normal JJ (not a higain spec one) in V2 and a GT in V3. You could also experiment with a 12AT7, 7551 or other lower gain tubes in V3 / V4.

In a final nod, an 12AT7 / ECC81 with balanced triodes could be used in V5 (that's the phase inverter slot I think) to lower the overall gain. It has the effect of lowering the overall volume of the preamp but also cleans up the saturation of the overall preamp sound before it goes into the power amp. I have a JJ ECC81 with that config that I use just for such occasions.


----------



## MildlyMoist

Mordacain said:


> You could experiment with replacing the V1 with a 12AT7 (ECC81) or an old long plate 12AX7 (RCA, Brimax, Hammond, etc) for starters. Also could try mixing in a normal JJ (not a higain spec one) in V2 and a GT in V3. You could also experiment with a 12AT7, 7551 or other lower gain tubes in V3 / V4.
> 
> In a final nod, an 12AT7 / ECC81 with balanced triodes could be used in V5 (that's the phase inverter slot I think) to lower the overall gain. It has the effect of lowering the overall volume of the preamp but also cleans up the saturation of the overall preamp sound before it goes into the power amp. I have a JJ ECC81 with that config that I use just for such occasions.



Thanks for the tips man i'll definitely take these into serious consideration.
Gotta bust that fizz.


----------



## Mordacain

MildlyMoist said:


> Thanks for the tips man i'll definitely take these into serious consideration.
> Gotta bust that fizz.



Well, if you just need to tame fizz, then different 12AX7 varieties can typically do that. Tung-Sols in my experience have the same amount of gain as EH but without the fizzy, grainy sound in the gain structure.

I reference JJs a couple times but know that those should be used sparingly in my experience. They can be helpful in some positions to smooth out the overall tone but they are really dark so full retube jobs consisting of nothing but JJs sound overly dark and a bit too compressed in my experience.


----------



## dominic252

Looking for some advice

I have a Peavey Ultra Plus that I'm looking to get a little darker of a sound, more like a 5150, out of it. A little too bright for me. I have no idea what kind of tubes are in it, but maybe you guys can give me some advice as to which tubes could give me a darker sound? 

Thanks!


----------



## Lifestalker

dominic252 said:


> Looking for some advice
> 
> I have a Peavey Ultra Plus that I'm looking to get a little darker of a sound, more like a 5150, out of it. A little too bright for me. I have no idea what kind of tubes are in it, but maybe you guys can give me some advice as to which tubes could give me a darker sound?
> 
> Thanks!



I've got an Ultra Plus as well. JJ's helped tame it down. However, mine is also modded with three resistor/caps now. They were a BITCH to do. Evened out the honky mids and harsh highs. Added a little more "umph"...lol. However, I'm still not getting the sound I want. So ready to "trash" it.


----------



## cgraci

Hey does anyone know how jjecc82 are when replacing a 12au7 in a vht2/90/2 power amp?


----------



## mesaboogie6l6

dominic252 said:


> Looking for some advice
> 
> I have a Peavey Ultra Plus that I'm looking to get a little darker of a sound, more like a 5150, out of it. A little too bright for me. I have no idea what kind of tubes are in it, but maybe you guys can give me some advice as to which tubes could give me a darker sound?
> 
> Thanks!


 https://www.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=8&sub_category_id=93


----------



## Mordacain

cgraci said:


> Hey does anyone know how jjecc82 are when replacing a 12au7 in a vht2/90/2 power amp?



www.thetubestore.com - Preamp Tube Gain Factor

Gives a good overview of relative gain levels irrespective of different manufacturers, just off the tube type itself


----------



## Mega-Mads

I've noticed some things after i changed the tubes in my dual rec. the amp is harder to control now, i have to turn down the volume pot on the guitar to activate the noise gate properly. 

What can signs can i expect just after changing power tubes?


----------



## The Scenic View

Stock Mesa Mark V with Mesa 6L6 and 12AX7. I just popped in a quad of EHX EL34's that a friend loaned me, and the amp just came to life! Night and day difference, imo. I've done reading and apparently Mesa's come with a bias between 25 and 30 mA (supposedly the V is the hottest out of all Mesa guitar heads in current production), and some tubes some rated at 33 mA. Is this alright for the amp, or will I face trouble down the road? Also, what EL34's would you guys recommend for my amp? It runs into a Mesa Stiletto 4x12, and the noise comes from a Schecter Blackjack ATX C8 tuned to drop F# (whole tone up from drop E). I like the EHX's, but I'm curious to know what else is good!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm wondering if anyone here has tried an E34L amp in a high-gain EL34-loaded amp like a Peavey 6534+ or 3120? The specs for an E34L sound like they're too my liking.


----------



## rob_707

im curious to what would be better for tubes in my amp, i play metal and i just got a bugera 6262, it has 4 6L6 tubes and 6 12Ax7 tubes in it. 
would the amp sound better if i put 4 EL34's and a better type of 12AX7's in it?


----------



## The Scenic View

rob_707 said:


> im curious to what would be better for tubes in my amp, i play metal and i just got a bugera 6262, it has 4 6L6 tubes and 6 12Ax7 tubes in it.
> would the amp sound better if i put 4 EL34's and a better type of 12AX7's in it?



You could try putting 34's in, if that's your flavor. Maybe try a different brand of 6L6's before hop ship, since there are lot's of good 6L6's out there. Also, depending on your needs, you could look into mix-matching 12AX7 brands, since each tube is different from one another. Two great places to get tubes from would be eurotubes.com and thetubestore.com.


----------



## Mordacain

The Scenic View said:


> Stock Mesa Mark V with Mesa 6L6 and 12AX7. I just popped in a quad of EHX EL34's that a friend loaned me, and the amp just came to life! Night and day difference, imo. I've done reading and apparently Mesa's come with a bias between 25 and 30 mA (supposedly the V is the hottest out of all Mesa guitar heads in current production), and some tubes some rated at 33 mA. Is this alright for the amp, or will I face trouble down the road? Also, what EL34's would you guys recommend for my amp? It runs into a Mesa Stiletto 4x12, and the noise comes from a Schecter Blackjack ATX C8 tuned to drop F# (whole tone up from drop E). I like the EHX's, but I'm curious to know what else is good!



The SED =C= (winged C) are amazing in both EL34 and 6L6 derivatives. I also really like the TAD EL34. Another thought might be the JJ 6CA7. 
They are a bit like an EL34 / 6L6 hybrid.

You can get them spec'd for Mesa bias range at either www.thetubestore.com - Your online source for audio vacuum tubes. or eurotubes.


----------



## rob_707

The Scenic View said:


> You could try putting 34's in, if that's your flavor. Maybe try a different brand of 6L6's before hop ship, since there are lot's of good 6L6's out there. Also, depending on your needs, you could look into mix-matching 12AX7 brands, since each tube is different from one another. Two great places to get tubes from would be eurotubes.com and thetubestore.com.


ok thanks that sounds good, the sound im looking fore is clarity more then anything i play "djenty" style stuff


----------



## Carvinkook

Im a BIG TungSol fan..they just seem a little less harsh than the JJ's,, less high end fizz more smoothness in my crizz


----------



## rick_fears

Anybody swapped out the tubes in a laney ironheart?


----------



## ErkerAsylum

Time for new Power amp tubes in my Carvin V3. It can be ran at 50W as well as 100. I've always ran it at 100 but i think i might start running at 50w with just the 2 tubes. EL34 is what it came with and what I'm sticking with. 

I've never changed tubes before, anything in particular I need to know before I switch these out? thanks in advance


----------



## clay

I just heards this shredder x tube screamer by revolts amps, was very crunchie and very clean tone.think the dude was use emgs ,nice cut threw


----------



## clay

Try that shredder x tube screamer by revolt. i belive its a sonny lombardozzi signature,was very clean gain


----------



## glytch5

In my orange DT i'm using JJ 12ax7s and the EL84s. I have tried chinese 12ax7s (sino) in my V1 and v2, liked the JJ better. The difference was very slight but I did discover a HUGE difference when using a certain sleeper tube.

I know you can buy matched phase inverter tubes from Eurotubes, or even tube depot but, I tried to the groove tubes 12ax7s matched phase inverter and HOLY COW it sounds fantastic. 
It is a chinese sino tube, but I think the current/triodes must be perfectly matched. Perhaps JJ tubes do not make good sounding phase inverters I do not know. 
If you have access to the GT SAG 12ax7 give it a try in your phase inverter. It really warmed up my amp. For clean/crunch settings it was very noticeable, and with my baritone tuned way down, the low notes had a bit more definition with high gain.

For v1 and gain stages, I prefer tube depot, they have JJ 12ax7 sales all the time, I just order them for high gain+low noise microphonics. 
I would suggest trying a simple sino 12ax7 in V1 also just for fun. They do have some bite to them!


----------



## nlaplante

rick_fears said:


> Anybody swapped out the tubes in a laney ironheart?



I put TAD 6L6GC-STR in my IRT60H. Way better than the stock Ruby's.

In the preamp here's my config:

V1: JJ ECC83S
V2: Ruby stock (chinese)
V3: Tung-Sol 12AX7 reissue
V4: Sovtek 12AX7-LPS

Sweet sounding!!!


----------



## LanguedocRoc

I can't believe that people actually play digital. You wouldn't catch me playing digital unless I was homeless.


----------



## t_rod

Replaced the EHX's in my 6505 with Mullard shortplates for V1 and V2 and tungols for V3-5. Much less fizz, microphonics, and hum plus lots more useable gain. Sounds frickin massive.


----------



## nlaplante

LanguedocRoc said:


> I can't believe that people actually play digital. You wouldn't catch me playing digital unless I was homeless.



With you on this. But, digital > tube amp played NOT loud


----------



## guitarxtc

LanguedocRoc said:


> I can't believe that people actually play digital. You wouldn't catch me playing digital unless I was homeless.



+1


----------



## guitarxtc

nlaplante said:


> With you on this. But, digital > tube amp played NOT loud



You must try Engl amps at low volume


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

guitarxtc said:


> You must try Engl amps at low volume


And my Ultra Lead sound brutal at low volume. Yes sounds better cranked but I would put it up against any SS amp at bedroom level.

Back OT:

I just got the UL and it has JJ6l6g's for the Power amp and all stock VHT branded (chinese) 12ax7's. My UL has the 12AU7 for the drive stage however and a KT88 switch.

I am lead to believe all preamp tubes are stock from 1994 . I threw in some kind of Baldwin in the 12AU7 slot and honestly it sounds "newer" if that makes any sense, nothing more. Not much difference there as expected.

I do have some JJ KT88's that I will throw in there soon and will be buying some 12ax7's to mess around with. 

I really want some Ruby Black Plates or something as nice as I can get without spending $1k on a single TF803s.

I will definitely report back once I get everything situated.

It is sounding great now with the 6l6 but I am anxious to hear it with the KT88. If that goes well I will probably end up getting some =C= KT88 or maybe even 6550.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

nlaplante said:


> With you on this. But, digital > tube amp played NOT loud



My 100-watt Hughes & Kettner sounds fantastic at low volumes. Gotta love power amps.


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

A post of mine from the EVH owners thread:



TheWarAgainstTime said:


> I changed out the stock JJ power tubes for a set of Mesa's I got from taliababa on here. The JJ's didn't die or anything; I just wanted to try something new, plus I can keep the JJ's around for spares since I didn't have any before this. They've made a pretty noticeable difference in feel, though the sound wasn't very greatly impacted. Compared to the JJ's, these have a slightly flatter response with deeper/punchier lows and slightly more highs compared to a slightly rolled off top end response of the JJ set. I feel like the presence and resonance knobs are a little bit more responsive as well. A new pair of Mesa 6l6's can be kind of pricey (mine were used), but they are just rebranded Sovteks, which can be found a good bit cheaper online
> 
> I swapped the V1 preamp tube for a Tung-Sol. I have mixed feelings about it, honestly, so I may put the original JJ back in or try some Mesa's I have laying around (rebranded JJ's, right?) I personally wouldn't recommend the Tung-Sol if you're running your 5153 through a 1x12 or 2x12 cab since it adds a good bit of high end/clarity to an already bright amp, but if you're running a 4x12 it helps give low notes better definition. I'm running a Mesa 4x12 Traditional and/or a 2x12 Rectifier horizontal, so you may have different results if you use a cab with darker speakers.
> 
> I like to run both the 4x12 and 2x12 together with my setup, so I'll be looking for a V1 tube that lies somewhere between the brightness of the Tung-Sol and the darker JJ. Any suggestions for this?



Since then, I've taken to only running one cab at a time because I feel like there's better punch and body when the amp is only driving one cab. Maybe it's all in my head though  

Anyway, the Tung Sol in V1 and JJ's in the rest of the preamp is what I'm still running and I like it a lot, though I'm still open to trying other tubes in that position (EHX perhaps?) I'm also still running the Mesa 6l6 pair in the power section. 

I'm thinking of ordering a matched pair of Sovtek 6l6WXT+ next time I need to swap out the power tubes. From what I've read, Mesa 6l6's are rebranded Sovtek 6l6WXT tubes, and both the extra output/headroom and *advertised* better tone of the + version sound appealing. Has anyone used the 6l6WXT+ in a 5153, 6505, or similar amp for a comparison?


----------



## tacotiklah

nlaplante said:


> With you on this. But, digital > tube amp played NOT loud



Easy fix for that. I run my KT-77 modded Peavey 3120 with the master volume set at about 3 o'clock and the channel volumes turned down. Makes the power amp section kick in, but I still get bedroom volumes.


----------



## tylerpond05

Just joined the Tube ranks. Blackheart Little Giant, all stock. Will have to wait to upgrade the tubes since I spent all my budget on the amp itself for a few months, if not a year. I love the single channel cranks though. Got some awesome crunch tones while jamming with various family members playing the drum set. and it was only on the 3 watt setting!!!


----------



## sonofabias

At this time I'm using a rack rigg as my main live' system . 

Power : Engl e920 w/ Quad Siemans EL 34 ( came with the amp ! ) JJ 12ax7
Pre : Peavey Rockmaster ( modded ) w/ jj and Mesa 12ax7a

I really like the Siemans power tubes in this amp , but I'd like to try a KT77 or 6CA7 for a little different tonal color and keep the siemans 34's for a really special occasion , they sound amazing and cost just as much , perhaps I should just save my $ until I've enough for another quad ( 275 to 500 ! ) , but I need something I can count on for gigging and recording , I'm in three bands so whatever brand I choose has to be dependable . My tech ( Harry Kolbe protege' ) swears by jj's , but I curious if anyone can suggest alternative KT77 or 6CA7 ?


----------



## vick1000

I loved the JJ 6CA7s in my JSX, but they were a matched Cryoset treated quad, totally worth it though. The EHX 6CA7s are supposed to be bulletproof too, just brighter overall than the JJs.

Didn't like KT77s as much, E34Ls were nice though, but they are tough on grid resistors since they draw more heater current.


----------



## charlessalvacion

nlaplante said:


> I put TAD 6L6GC-STR in my IRT60H. Way better than the stock Ruby's.
> 
> In the preamp here's my config:
> 
> V1: JJ ECC83S
> V2: Ruby stock (chinese)
> V3: Tung-Sol 12AX7 reissue
> V4: Sovtek 12AX7-LPS
> 
> Sweet sounding!!!



Did you bias the IRT60H when you replaced the tubes? Thanks


----------



## op1e

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> A post of mine from the EVH owners thread:
> 
> 
> 
> Since then, I've taken to only running one cab at a time because I feel like there's better punch and body when the amp is only driving one cab. Maybe it's all in my head though
> 
> Anyway, the Tung Sol in V1 and JJ's in the rest of the preamp is what I'm still running and I like it a lot, though I'm still open to trying other tubes in that position (EHX perhaps?) I'm also still running the Mesa 6l6 pair in the power section.
> 
> I'm thinking of ordering a matched pair of Sovtek 6l6WXT+ next time I need to swap out the power tubes. From what I've read, Mesa 6l6's are rebranded Sovtek 6l6WXT tubes, and both the extra output/headroom and *advertised* better tone of the + version sound appealing. Has anyone used the 6l6WXT+ in a 5153, 6505, or similar amp for a comparison?



I've been reading around to tame the brightness and gain of channel 3. A user on one forum said a Sovtek LPS in v2 helped and fattened it up a bit but didn't reduce gain and tamed highs as well as making EQ and Pres/Res more responsive. A user on here said a 5751 in v4 did a lot for reducing gain. Also read that having your gain up to noon on this channel fattens it up because channel thins out with it at 9 o'clock. Currently running the gain at noon is impossible. Think I'm gonna do both. LPS in v2 and 5751 in v4. As of now my presence is always at zero and my highs at noon (at least on the red channel). My desired result obviously taming highs and gain and making the eq more responsive, as its pretty subtle now. Will report back on it if I can afford this week lol.


----------



## DanOates1

I've bought myself a rockerverb mkII 50 watt head and an orange 2x12 cab to go along with it. However the dirty channel isn't quite there in terms of a PHAT hardcore/metal/gainy tone like an EVH or 5150. 
So what pedals should I get to try and get as close as I can to these awesome gainy and metal tones these other amps seem to achieve?


----------



## p4vl

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm wondering if anyone here has tried an E34L amp in a high-gain EL34-loaded amp like a Peavey 6534+ or 3120? The specs for an E34L sound like they're too my liking.



Well, the 3120 is basically the XXX, so yeah. I switch between JJ KT77 and JJ E34L's in my XXX. E34L's are my favorite EL-34 variation; a little more low end and headroom than most EL34's.

Peavey XXX 120w 2x12 used as head: 
V1: RFT ECC83 (much better for smoothing out the gain than ECC82/81's/etc. as it still sounds punchy)
V2: JJ ECC83 HG
V3: JJ ECC83
V4: Sovtek 12ax7LPS

Ampeg VL-503 used as head:

Power: 2 x NOS GE 6550's.
Preamp: Mix of Chinese 12ax7's and Tung Sol RI's and a Sovtek LPS in the PI. In spite of the Tung Sol's and Shuguang's, channel 3 is muddy, dark and lacking gain 

Both amps run into a Lopo 2x12 w/Eminence Legend V128's (love these speakers). 

Would a 1x12 with a brighter speaker (ie. Eminence Wizard) help to tighten and brighten up the Ampeg's tone?


----------



## lewis

LanguedocRoc said:


> I can't believe that people actually play digital. You wouldn't catch me playing digital unless I was homeless.



ouch, thats harsh. Yet digital guys are willing to play tube amps and vice versa. Tube purists are short sighted, yet the digital guys they put down are open to trying anything out.

If you havent already, go and try a Kemper and compare A - B at loud volumes and see if you notice a difference. Because most do not, including small people like Andy Sneap lol


----------



## The Scenic View

Anyone know the benefits of having a tube with matched diodes in the phase inverter spot? Looking to retube my Mark V soon and stumbled on this topic


----------



## Petar Bogdanov

The Scenic View said:


> Anyone know the benefits of having a tube with matched diodes in the phase inverter spot? Looking to retube my Mark V soon and stumbled on this topic



You mean triodes, right? I would imagine, less crossover distortion and less even-order harmonics. In musicianspeak, it will clean up the sound a bit.


----------



## lewis

for live use Im using a tube preamp (Engl E530) with digital effects processing for effects and Cab sounds (HD Pro and Torpedo CAB respectively) and soon I will be running a Tube OD/Preamp pedal into the front of it in the way of the Laney Pulse Pedal (used as a clean boost)

I just prefer the sound/tone/power of loud guitar tones when they are Tube.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Question for XXX users... What power tubes do you use in your amps? I'm trying to decide between JJ 6L6s, EL34s, or 6CA7s.


----------



## The Scenic View

Petar Bogdanov said:


> You mean triodes, right? I would imagine, less crossover distortion and less even-order harmonics. In musicianspeak, it will clean up the sound a bit.



Thanks man. I'm thinking about retubing soon and was wondering what is a go to set of pre amp tubes for the Mark V. I know the tube store suggests Tung-sol or their Preferred series. Any one have specific tubes they like in certain spots? Mainly playing metal, but wouldnt mind something different for channel 1 and 2.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Quick question regarding preamp tubes... 

For those who like a brighter and tighter attack with their amps, what do you prefer in V1 of a preamp? Tung-sol, EHX, or Shuguang? When I see people trying to clean up muddy amps, I usually see those recommended since they tend to have less low end and more high end/mids.


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

I prefer Tung Sol for V1 in pretty much every case except for using a 5751 to reduce gain slightly. I've never tried an EHX in V1, but I feel like it would be a nice middle ground between the smoothness/mids of a JJ and the clarity/attack of a Tung Sol and would work well in an already bright amp.

I'm planning on doing some tube swapping in my EVH soon, so I'll try and report back with a comparison of a JJ, Chinese, EHX, 5751, and Tung Sol in the V1 spot


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

That sounds good to me. I was gonna try doing a Tung in V1 to tighten up the input, while using JJs in everything else to smoothen and thicken the overall sound. Seems like it would be the best option for what I'm looking for.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Quick question regarding preamp tubes...
> 
> For those who like a brighter and tighter attack with their amps, what do you prefer in V1 of a preamp? Tung-sol, EHX, or Shuguang? When I see people trying to clean up muddy amps, I usually see those recommended since they tend to have less low end and more high end/mids.



I can't tell you exactly who made the tube but I ended up with a Mesa branded ax7 in V1 of my old 100CL and brighter and tighter is exactly what it did and it was a night and day difference from any of the other tubes I tried which were Groove Tubes, JJ and Chinese.

That is V1 specifically though, I had better sounds in the other slots with some of the GT's.


----------



## WhiskeyPickleJake

Amp: Line6 Spider Valve MkI/Bogner
Preamp: Tung-Sol 12ax7 (2)
Power: Tung-Sol 6L6gc STR (2)

Original equipment on this amp used Sovtek 5881's. I wanted higher quality softer tubes that could handle the 450+ volts I've read about on the Spider Valve, hence the STR version 6L6's. The factory spec for bias is 36.5mv, but when I retubed they were reading around 40mv. Not sure if that's normal as tubes age or not. For the record, the amp still sounded pretty good considering the factory tubes were 7 years old haha.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

Here are some pages that are definitely worth a read IMO.

I will post this one first since it is a worthwhile Power Tube comparison and the rest are mostly pre amp tubes. You may have to use google translate on some of the text but I found it very informative.

http://www.tube-town.net/info/doc/tt-tubemap.pdf

For anyone wanting to get into rolling some of the more rare and vintage tubes. This page is more to be able to identify what you are looking at vs. the characteristics of the sound but one hell of a good page:

Tube Classics - Audio Tubes


Here are a couple of articles by the tube king. Definitely some of my favorite comparison articles.

Part 1: The Tubeking's Guide to NOS and Vintage Audio Tubes | eBay

Part 2: The Tubeking's Guide to NOS/Vintage Audio Tubes Part II | eBay

This is a good comparison regarding vintage black plate 12ax7's.

Old Stock Audio: August 2011



Here is a good one on current production 12ax7's and 6L6's.

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/vacuum_tubes/articles



There are also some general comparisons from other places as well just for example. 

You will see a lot of commonalities between these pages but just keep in mind this is all someone's opinion. A more than likely much more experienced opinion but results may always vary.

NOS Valve / Tube Guide | Shredaholic.com

http://www.worldtubecompany.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=TF-2

https://tubedepot.com/tube-comparison-tool


----------



## Ice4600

Hey guys. I've got a Series 1 Mesa Road King and I'm looking to re-tube it. I haven't had any loss of power or any sign that a tube has failed, but they're at least six years old and I'd like to experiment with tones. I find the amp to be very punchy, specifically when the EL34s are engaged, but overall the low end is saggy on every channel. This makes me think I could fix that with preamp tubes. I'd like to smooth out the high end on the dirtier channels and brighten up the cleans if possible (I know, it's still a Mesa). 

I know very little about tubes so it's likely that I make no sense right now. Does anyone have any experience with this particular amp? Does the progressive linkage circuitry make it substantially different than other dual recs? maybe different voicing?


----------



## mongey

just retubed my dual recto this week. pre were 7 years old and power 3 and a bit . decided to mix it up and go with EL34s and I'm really digging it it so far .I was looking at the doug tubes recto kit but with exchange rate and delivery it got expensive. so I did my own version through different suppliers here in Oz 

JJ EL34 quad 
v1 tung sol 12ax7 
v2 Ruby 12ax7ac5hg+
v3 groove tubes 12ax7c
v4 groove tubes 12ax7c
v5 sovtek 12ax7 lps 


digging it . gonna give it a few rehearsals to get used to it then try the ruby in v1 to see how it sounds


----------



## axxessdenied

I just did my dual recto tremoverb went with mesa 6l6 power tubes and tung sol preamp tubes. Interested in how EL34's would sound though.


----------



## StefanWest

Has anyone touched base on the Shuguang Nature Treasure tubes?
I just bought matched quads of Ruby el34b strs and I've been trying to locate actual 9th gen Shuguang that everyone talked about throwing in their Cobra. 
So far the Ruby 12ax7 ac5 hgs are the only ones I've been suggested .
I see 12ax7 b on eBay all day, in black lettering as well as red.

I've also been seeing the gold lions that go for some $47 a piece but only for v1. 

Has anyone used the treasures? They're not cheap at all.
So far nobody has spoken up.


----------



## Tukaar

http://www.ebay.com/itm/391597783405 

Scored a quad of these for $37 shipped for my 5150. Will report back with results.


----------



## lewis

using a tube preamp now for the heart of my entire pedalboard only live rig. Sounds great. Thinking about trying to upgrade it to stereo and getting another batch of devices. Love that tube tone but confined to a nice small and very convenient pedal.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Quick noob question. 

I have a Peavey 5150II, and I wanted to check on the tubes. I looked inside, and the power amp tubes are Ruby 6L6s and Sovtek 12AX7s, so I'm assuming these are stock. I see the Sovteks have numbers on them, labeled "99 09". Am I righ to assume that means these tubes were produced in 1999 or 2009?

EDIT: Already bought some preamp tubes to do the swap, but I just wanted to make sure because I'm also seeing how old the power amp tubes are. They seem very ancient.


----------



## op1e

*Groove Tubes GT-KT88-SV; Anybody try these? I'm finding em for $40 a matched pair, that's the price of one JJ. Probably gonna order anyway, just don't see any reviews.
*


----------



## Kingcrimson

Preamp Tubes: 6xRuby 12AX7AC5 HG+
Power Tubes: 6xJJ Electronic KT77

Just a little taste of Herbert with the above valves installed.

https://soundcloud.com/user-413609622/the-bad-man-of-metal-tone


----------



## lurè

Quick question:

Does anybody have experience on putting a lower gain preamp tube (V1) on an high gain amp (6505/5150, Engl ...)?

I was considering swapping the stock 12AX7 of my Powerball 2 with a 12AT7/ECC81 tube.
I've heard it opens the overall sound, reducing compression and gain.


----------



## mnemonic

lurè said:


> Quick question:
> 
> Does anybody have experience on putting a lower gain preamp tube (V1) on an high gain amp (6505/5150, Engl ...)?
> 
> I was considering swapping the stock 12AX7 of my Powerball 2 with a 12AT7/ECC81 tube.
> I've heard it opens the overall sound, reducing compression and gain.



12at7 has the same pinout as a 12ax7 and technically will work as a drop in replacement, but it has different characteristics and isn’t designed to work the same way a 12ax7 does in a circuit. It’s more different than just lower gain, you may not like how it sounds. But NOS 12at7’s are still cheap and plentiful so it’s worth a shot if you want to try. 

You may be better off with a 5751 tube for v1 to tame things.


----------



## lurè

Thanks. 
The 5751 tube seems a good compromise.
I've also checked the manual and the gain stages of channel 3 and 4 are piloted by the second preamp tube (V6 in the manual).
I'll leave a 12ax7 in V1 and try a 5751 in V2; probably gonna also try a 12at7 just for curiosity.


----------



## oneblackened

Here are my experiences with tubes. 


Tung-Sol RI 12AX7: Very, VERY bright, to the point of harsh, in V1+V2. Nice in V1 if you want to tilt your amp bright, probably good in darker amps e.g. a Fireball 100 or something.
JJ ECC83S: Sort of the opposite of the Tung-Sol - fairly dark. Really damn quiet too. Good if you want to darken an amp up. 6505s LOVE these IME, and for good reason - it tames some of the harshness. 
JJ ECC803S: Flat out awesome in V1 in my JCA100HDM. Not much like the JJ ECC83S other than its low mechanical noise - it's well balanced and lower gain with a nice chime. Super long plate design though, so it's somewhat microphony-prone. 
JJ ECC83MG: My favorite of JJ's preamp tube offerings. Somewhere between the 83S and 803S tonally, similar low noise and non-microphonic qualities to the 83S without being so damn dark. I'd do a whole amp with these any day - nice midrange bark without being overly bright. 
Mullard RI 12AX7_/_ECC83: Just kind of "meh". Neutral to warm-ish, nice enough in V2. Never tried it in V1. Not my thing in the PI slot - made the amp a bit too warm.
Sovtek 12AX7LPS: Great phase inverter. A lot like the Mullard RI but not quite so warm. 

Power tubes: 
JJ 6L6GC: Nice and tight, kinda rolled off on top like most JJs seem to be. Well built. 
Tung-Sol 6L6GC-STR: A bit more vintage than the JJ - kinda "mushy" at the same plate dissipation by comparison. Tone's nice though when biased right - A bit brighter than the JJs but only a hair. 

I'm considering converting my SLO modded JCA100HDM to EL34 operation, but that's still up in the air. If I do, I'll report back on the tubes I try for that.


----------



## LiveOVErdrive

I didn't want to start a whole new thread for this post so here we go:

I've always kind of poo-poo-ed power tube rolling, assuming a little eq tweaking would do a lot more and a power amp is a power amp (at least for metal where power distortion isn't a thing) 

Well today I replaced the original 6l6s from my Mark v with some JJ el34s. Good God what a difference. They definitely have more of that mid-focused el34 snarl people talk about, but the bass is also bigger and tighter at the same time. I'm impressed. The mk4 mode of channel 3 is now a violent, fire breathing monster.


----------



## oneblackened

LiveOVErdrive said:


> I didn't want to start a whole new thread for this post so here we go:
> 
> I've always kind of poo-poo-ed power tube rolling, assuming a little eq tweaking would do a lot more and a power amp is a power amp (at least for metal where power distortion isn't a thing)
> 
> Well today I replaced the original 6l6s from my Mark v with some JJ el34s. Good God what a difference. They definitely have more of that mid-focused el34 snarl people talk about, but the bass is also bigger and tighter at the same time. I'm impressed. The mk4 mode of channel 3 is now a violent, fire breathing monster.


Oh yeah - switching tube _types_ (e.g. 6L6 to EL34) makes a pretty big difference. Within those types? Eh, not so much. An EL34 is an EL34 more or less.


----------



## LiveOVErdrive

oneblackened said:


> Oh yeah - switching tube _types_ (e.g. 6L6 to EL34) makes a pretty big difference. Within those types? Eh, not so much. An EL34 is an EL34 more or less.


Yeah, definitely makes sense, though I always assumed the EQ difference must be pretty small. And I guess it IS, but I'm really impressed.

I'm assuming part of it is that the 6L6s in there before were pretty old (I bought the thing used and I'm guessing they're original). People SAY that makes a difference. Whatever, it sounds great to me. I even LOVE the clean tone I'm getting out of it. Spanky and tasty. Which is not what you expect from EL34s. But then a lot of those stereotypes might be more of a Fender vs Marshall sound type thing.


----------



## DudeManBrother

LiveOVErdrive said:


> Yeah, definitely makes sense, though I always assumed the EQ difference must be pretty small. And I guess it IS, but I'm really impressed.
> 
> I'm assuming part of it is that the 6L6s in there before were pretty old (I bought the thing used and I'm guessing they're original). People SAY that makes a difference. Whatever, it sounds great to me. I even LOVE the clean tone I'm getting out of it. Spanky and tasty. Which is not what you expect from EL34s. But then a lot of those stereotypes might be more of a Fender vs Marshall sound type thing.


The EL34 has a steep drop off in the lows around starting around 80hz, while the the 6L6 is more of a low shelf. There’s a noticeable difference around 125hz being strong on 6L6’s, then somewhere around 275hz there’s a steep notch cut with EL34. Then where the 6L6 starts to settle down in the 500-1.2k range is where the EL34 starts to come to life. Most of the high end is relatively similar(ish) but it’s enough to drastically alter the way an amp sounds. 

The KT66 is also a cool tube that has some of the mid range punch of an EL34 but is more in spec with a 6L6 and is a cool replacement for amps that don’t take EL34 variants. But they are wide bottles and don’t fit every amp.


----------



## oneblackened

Okay, since my last post I've tried a few more tubes.

Most of these tests were done with a Mesa Dual Rectifier, Rev G, in various positions.
Preamp tubes:
RFT ECC83: Got these NOS on ebay. Excellent tubes, dark, quiet, very crunchy. Basically a JJ ECC83S but not dull, tonally. Very nice in V2.
Mullard "CV4004": Eh. Sounds like a tamer more boring Tung-Sol RI. Mine was also exceptionally low gain. Who knows, maybe I got a bad one?
Sovtek 12AX7WA/WB: Boring, dull, indestructible. I consider this a worse version of the JJ ECC83S.
JJ ECC803S: Update on this tube: Absolutely flipping amazing as a phase inverter. Dethroned the 12AX7LPS for me.
Shuguang 9th Gen 12AX7A: Mesa SPAX7 branded. Super quiet, tons of gain, hate how it sounds. Overdrives in a very unpleasant way.

Power tubes:
JJ E34L: A lot of people swear by these but I kind of hate them. IMO the worst EL34 that JJ makes tonally. Big bass but it's not tight. High end is harsh. Damn near indestructible, though.
JJ EL34 II: Actually honestly super kickass. Much more "classic" sounding than the E34L. Likes to be biased hot. My choice for current production EL34s. Reminds me of the old Siemens/RFT EL34s sonically.
SED/Winged C EL34: I got an absurd deal on these from NessTone. In a phrase, these are _fucking amazing._ All the harmonic content you might expect from NOS EL34s and the low end is tight too. Nice and snarly mids in the most rock and roll way. Put these in a 2203. They WILL kick ass and take names. They also can take 500 volts on the screens unlike most EL34s.
Electro-Harmonix EL34EH: These are very similar looking to the old RFT/Siemens EL34 to the point that I think New Sensor bought the tooling at some point. Not bad at all, but I prefer the JJ EL34 II for that kind of sound.
Sovtek 5881WXT: Came in a second Dual Rec I got in trade. Turned the amp on, played one chord, and junked them. Awful, AWFUL tubes. You want a tube that will suck the life out of your amp? These will do it.
JJ KT88: My first foray into KT88s, so I have no frame of reference. I like these in Dual Recs a lot though. All the best parts of a 6L6GC and an EL34, but also more and tighter low end.


----------



## budda

I have had two different quads of preferred series EL34's die in my JCM800 over the last year. The tech who's worked on the amp says he has experienced this before and no longer recommends those tubes. I run my amp loud, and often (twice a week when not on tour). Just a bit of a PSA for anyone considering that specific tube, as the tube store has their annual sale on right now.


----------



## oneblackened

budda said:


> I have had two different quads of preferred series EL34's die in my JCM800 over the last year. The tech who's worked on the amp says he has experienced this before and no longer recommends those tubes. I run my amp loud, and often (twice a week when not on tour). Just a bit of a PSA for anyone considering that specific tube, as the tube store has their annual sale on right now.


That's Chinese tubes for you... I don't trust them, Shuguang is known to put out some real stinkers.


----------



## oneblackened

Couple more preamp tube reviews! This was in a Mark IV and my Dual Rectifier. 

JAN GE 12AX7WA: The best way to describe this tube is "big". Dead quiet, too. Somewhat on the warm side of things, but not dull. Distorts beautifully. 
Shuguang 12AX7 (1990s stock): Definitely on the bright side of things. These were Mesa branded. Works better in darker amps. 
Shuguang 12AX7 (2018 production): Like the older ones, but not as good. Grittier, less clear. I see why people like them, but they're not for me. 
EHX 12AX7: Again, Mesa branded. Pretty neutral sounding overall, with a bit of gritty edge like most Russian tubes have. Actually a pretty nice PI tube. 
"Northern Electric" 12AX7: Rebranded TJ FullMusic (another Chinese maker) 12AX7. Good sounding tube with a really nice balance and clarity, but the one example I had went very noisy after about 4 hours of use (it's being replaced). Not sure I'd recommend them for the amount they cost each ($48 US plus shipping) when I could buy NOS RFTs for about the same cost without worrying about noise.


----------



## oneblackened

Okay, update on the Northern Electric stuff. The second one has gone bad now too - so yeah, fuck those tubes. Absolutely not worth nearly $60 each.


----------



## 777timesgod

Any opinions on the Groove Tube GT-12AX7 ones? They used to be stocked locally in a shop near me and I may look them up again.


----------



## efiltsohg

777timesgod said:


> Any opinions on the Groove Tube GT-12AX7 ones? They used to be stocked locally in a shop near me and I may look them up again.



tested/selected shuguang/new sensor/JJ depending on the part code (-C, -R, -S), not worth the surcharge


----------



## 777timesgod

efiltsohg said:


> tested/selected shuguang/new sensor/JJ depending on the part code (-C, -R, -S), not worth the surcharge



I was under the impression that they had similar prices. I will keep it in mind.


----------



## efiltsohg

777timesgod said:


> I was under the impression that they had similar prices. I will keep it in mind.



If they are the same price no major reason not to get them... but I'd prefer a Tung-Sol or Sovtek LPS. Last I heard GT-12AX7R was a Sovtek WA which is one of the worst sounding preamp tubes out there

edit: not sure if still accurate by my source says:
GT-12AX7C: Shuguang 12AX7-A
GT-12AX7R: Sovtek 12AX7-WA
GT-12AX7R2: Sovtek 12AX7-LPS
GT-12AX7R3: Electro-Harmonix 12AX7-EH
GT-12AX7S: JJ ECC83

So if you can get an R2 or R3 it might be worthwhile. For me JJ only belongs in a very bright amp


----------



## oneblackened

So Groove Tubes does make a couple of special power tubes... The 6L6-GEs are actually pretty good tubes though they're more 5881s in terms of plate dissipation, and the 6L6GC-CHPs I don't know anything about. I have a pair, but my only 50W amp (my Amelia) is currently on my bench being modded to hell and back.


----------



## Descent

What are the thoughts on JJ's?

I have a hog to retube, the Peavey power amp Classic 50/50. Have to get an octet of EL84s and quad 12ax7s. I wanted to go EH first as I've always had good results with them but JJ price came out to about $120 for all, while if I've gone EH I was looking at $200.


----------



## efiltsohg

I'd stay away from the 12AX7s. JJ is good for power tubes.

If you don't want to change the tone & character of the amp then use what you had in there before

or try new production Tung-Sol 12AX7s for a relatively balanced sounding preamp tube


----------



## Descent

So their 12ax7s are no good? 

I'm not sure what the status of preamp tubes are in this amp, probably still good, the power amps' are definitely fading. I'll swap power amp tubes first and if it fixes the issue leave the current ones in there, EH12ax7s I think. 

A website was suggesting 12AT7's (ECC81s) for this amp but didn't specify what position. I've always used just straight up 12AX7s in it.


----------



## mnemonic

Descent said:


> So their 12ax7s are no good?
> 
> I'm not sure what the status of preamp tubes are in this amp, probably still good, the power amps' are definitely fading. I'll swap power amp tubes first and if it fixes the issue leave the current ones in there, EH12ax7s I think.
> 
> A website was suggesting 12AT7's (ECC81s) for this amp but didn't specify what position. I've always used just straight up 12AX7s in it.



I found the manual but it was very sparse and didn’t say anything about tubes. 

The schematic does call for 12AX7 input stages and 12AT7 phase inverters. 

https://www.thetubestore.com/lib/thetubestore/schematics/Peavey/Peavey-Classic50-50-Schematic.pdf

The tubes V200 and V206 are 12AT7’s. The last page is a copy of the pcb layout so you can see which positions they relate to (if it doesn’t specify those numbers on the actual PCB).


----------



## Descent

Haha...didn't know that, been using 12ax7 across all preamp positions for over 15 years 

So, I guess what am I missing by running 12ax7 instead of 12AT7 in there?

@mnemonic thanks for the schem, I didn't have that!


----------



## efiltsohg

You'd probably get different volume and slightly different distortion character from swapping the type PI tube


----------



## DudeManBrother

Descent said:


> Haha...didn't know that, been using 12ax7 across all preamp positions for over 15 years
> 
> So, I guess what am I missing by running 12ax7 instead of 12AT7 in there?
> 
> @mnemonic thanks for the schem, I didn't have that!


They are actually quite different. AT’s have an mu of around 60, peak heater-cathode value of 90v, a plate resistance of 11k-ish and a plate dissipation of about 2 1/2 watts and roughly quadruple the bandwidth of an AX: mu of 100, peak heater-cathode value of 200v, plate resistance 60k, and a plate dissipation of 1.2 watts... to name a few differences. You get lower plate voltage and much higher current draw than the design called for. In general, when a 12at7 is per design: the high end suffers with a 12ax7, and the low end isn’t as tight. 12at7’s are inexpensive. You can get RCA NOS tubes on the cheap.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Noob question... 

Do you guys find an amp / cab that gets you close to the tone in your head then experiment with tubes for fine tuning or is it another process entirely for you guys?

I've only recently started messing w tube amps and I currently have more than one cab and a few speakers so I was planning to play around w that but was also curious about tubes since (on YouTube) they sometimes seem to make big differences and other times not so much.


----------



## Descent

DudeManBrother said:


> They are actually quite different. AT’s have an mu of around 60, peak heater-cathode value of 90v, a plate resistance of 11k-ish and a plate dissipation of about 2 1/2 watts and roughly quadruple the bandwidth of an AX: mu of 100, peak heater-cathode value of 200v, plate resistance 60k, and a plate dissipation of 1.2 watts... to name a few differences. You get lower plate voltage and much higher current draw than the design called for. In general, when a 12at7 is per design: the high end suffers with a 12ax7, and the low end isn’t as tight. 12at7’s are inexpensive. You can get RCA NOS tubes on the cheap.




Thanks. I'll order a pair to compare.

I've been running that amp for over 15 years, never had issues with 12ax7s in all preamp positions.

Broke down and got two NOS Jan Phillips 12at7s. They were quite cheap, hope they're good. Also will experiment with some new AX7s in the preamp section of my Mesa Mini Recto just for kicks - JJ, EH, Sino (Shuguang?), Groove Tubes.

@Konfyouzd - it really depends. I am quite happy with all my tones, but I like to experiment. The Mesa for example is a bit noisy-ish on high gain, so trying to see if I can tame that somewhat. 

My other amp, I looked for preamp tubes that have less low end as it is really wooly. I ended up with the shoddiest (supposedly) Chinese tubes that had awful rating from hifi people, and these took off some of that loose low end that I needed out. Also they provided higher gain as that amp was a bit low in that dept. 

The power amp that I am retubing right now, basically the idea is to go as clean as possible, although with what I can afford that's a tall order.

My amp repair man and tube guru told me just now that JJs are absolute garbage...so I am now wondering whether I should return them.


----------



## efiltsohg

Konfyouzd said:


> Noob question...
> 
> Do you guys find an amp / cab that gets you close to the tone in your head then experiment with tubes for fine tuning or is it another process entirely for you guys?
> 
> I've only recently started messing w tube amps and I currently have more than one cab and a few speakers so I was planning to play around w that but was also curious about tubes since (on YouTube) they sometimes seem to make big differences and other times not so much.



Yeah basically. I would look at speakers & cab construction first, then variety of power tube (if you can rebias), then preamp tube make/models, and power tube make/model last since it will make the least difference for modern high-gain amps


----------



## efiltsohg

Descent said:


> My amp repair man and tube guru told me just now that JJs are absolute garbage...so I am now wondering whether I should return them.



not sure why he thinks that as they are the ONLY current production power tubes that can reliably handle high plate voltages


----------



## DudeManBrother

Descent said:


> Thanks. I'll order a pair to compare.
> 
> I've been running that amp for over 15 years, never had issues with 12ax7s in all preamp positions.
> 
> Broke down and got two NOS Jan Phillips 12at7s. They were quite cheap, hope they're good. Also will experiment with some new AX7s in the preamp section of my Mesa Mini Recto just for kicks - JJ, EH, Sino (Shuguang?), Groove Tubes.
> 
> @Konfyouzd - it really depends. I am quite happy with all my tones, but I like to experiment. The Mesa for example is a bit noisy-ish on high gain, so trying to see if I can tame that somewhat.
> 
> My other amp, I looked for preamp tubes that have less low end as it is really wooly. I ended up with the shoddiest (supposedly) Chinese tubes that had awful rating from hifi people, and these took off some of that loose low end that I needed out. Also they provided higher gain as that amp was a bit low in that dept.
> 
> The power amp that I am retubing right now, basically the idea is to go as clean as possible, although with what I can afford that's a tall order.
> 
> My amp repair man and tube guru told me just now that JJs are absolute garbage...so I am now wondering whether I should return them.


Quality amps thankfully use higher tolerance components than the design minimums. You might notice a quieter, punchier amp once the 12at7 goes in. The Jan Phillips are fantastic. I have one in the PI spot on my Ultra Lead, and use them in all my old Boogies that spec’d an at7 for the reverb tube. 

And JJ’s suffer from QC like every other tube being produced. Just buy (any new tube) from a good tube specialty store that adequately tests each tube. It’s still not a guarantee that the tube will last, but it’s the best option now adays.


----------



## oneblackened

I don't have any inherent problem with JJs. Their tubes are usually well made and they don't fail often. As far as high voltages go, JJ takes the cake on not blowing up - well, JJ and Gold Lion. That's about it. Chinese stuff is sometimes good but it's really variable in quality (like most things Chinese), and data sheets are not commonly available for them. Russian stuff is often not good about high voltages (the big exceptions being the Tung-Sol 6L6GC-STR which handles high voltage situations better than most 6L6s, and the Gold Lion KTs) or cathode followers.


----------



## Descent

@oneblackened by high voltage you mean running the bias hot?


----------



## mnemonic

Descent said:


> @oneblackened by high voltage you mean running the bias hot?



From what I remember, JJ EL84’s are quite robust and can handle high plate voltages better than others. I think their EL84’s and 6V6’s are quite well regarded. 

Worth doing some googling. I seem to remember them being well liked on TGP.


----------



## efiltsohg

Descent said:


> @oneblackened by high voltage you mean running the bias hot?



Nah,plate voltage is part of an amp's design regardless of biasing. Vintage Fenders are notorious for chewing up new production power tubes


----------



## oneblackened

Descent said:


> @oneblackened by high voltage you mean running the bias hot?


 Nope, I mean B+. Most of their tubes can actually take the voltages on the datasheets and then some. Their EL84s are pretty robust and can deal with Voxes fairly well (and Voxes are notorious for chewing through power tubes because of how rocket hot they run).

JJ 6V6s are a super robust 6V6 that can take +500V on the plates, which is WAY higher than vintage designs which were meant for a max of about 300-320V. Blackface Fenders are notorious for running these tubes way above spec - a Deluxe Reverb AB763 does ~420VDC on the plates, for example. The plates can usually take that in 6V6s... the screen grids, not so much. So for a tube like the JJ 6V6S, which has 6L6GC voltage ratings (500V Ua/450V Ug2) and an extra couple of watts plate dissipation over a 6V6GT (14w vs 12w), it's a perfect option.
JJ E34Ls are also particularly durable, and are one of the few tubes that won't consistently blow up in a Bogner Helios (which runs at above 500V B+ and screen), the others being KT77s (Rated at 800V Ua/600V Ug2), SED EL34s (800V Ua/510V Ug2) and the Ruby EL34BHT (rated for something like 800V Ua/550V Ug2).


----------



## Descent

@oneblackened Thanks for the info. 

My buddy is a electronics engineer (a degreed one to boot) that does his own analog tube amp designs and other things. He's actually tested pretty much any preamp tube on the market. It was strange to get his opinion vs the common forum one on JJ. 

I'll just wait and see.


----------



## oneblackened

Descent said:


> @oneblackened Thanks for the info.
> 
> My buddy is a electronics engineer (a degreed one to boot) that does his own analog tube amp designs and other things. He's actually tested pretty much any preamp tube on the market. It was strange to get his opinion vs the common forum one on JJ.
> 
> I'll just wait and see.


His opinion on JJ is because their quality control from the factory is rather inconsistent, especially with power tubes. As long as you buy your tubes from a company that properly tests their tubes, you shouldn't have problems.

JJ's preamp tubes are (in most cases) the most consistent on the market.


----------



## efiltsohg

He could also dislike them because the different tone doesn't fit with his designs


----------



## oneblackened

efiltsohg said:


> He could also dislike them because the different tone doesn't fit with his designs


He's not the only tech I've heard that from, though.


----------



## Konfyouzd

We're already discussing JJ it seems... 

I'm still a bit of a tube noob (very long time SS / modeler user)

Just got a JSX which I'm really liking. I bought it used and it came tubed with JJs. 

I was told this thing needs a boost but it seems incredibly tight as is and I kind of like whatever sound the previous owner achieved with this amp.

I see the switch is set to EL34, but is there a way to identify the tubes so that I know which retube kit the previous owner used so I can keep this sound?

Do the high gain preamp tubes have a marking indicating they're high gain or otherwise?

(I have not fully opened it yet)


----------



## oneblackened

Konfyouzd said:


> We're already discussing JJ it seems...
> 
> I'm still a bit of a tube noob (very long time SS / modeler user)
> 
> Just got a JSX which I'm really liking. I bought it used and it came tubed with JJs.
> 
> I was told this thing needs a boost but it seems incredibly tight as is and I kind of like whatever sound the previous owner achieved with this amp.
> 
> I see the switch is set to EL34, but is there a way to identify the tubes so that I know which retube kit the previous owner used so I can keep this sound?
> 
> Do the high gain preamp tubes have a marking indicating they're high gain or otherwise?
> 
> (I have not fully opened it yet)


 The tubes will be labeled as to what they are. The high gain part, not so much.


----------



## MetalHex

Can i use a generic contact cleaner to clean my scratchy pots or does it have to be a good brand?


----------



## vick1000

MetalHex said:


> Can i use a generic contact cleaner to clean my scratchy pots or does it have to be a good brand?


Deoxit 5 aresol is best due to removing oxidation, but generic will work ok.


----------



## efiltsohg

Are there any current production EL34s that are worth a damn? I'm eyeing a used Laney...


----------



## vick1000

efiltsohg said:


> Are there any current production EL34s that are worth a damn? I'm eyeing a used Laney...


http://www.dougstubes.com/ruby-el34-bht.html

http://www.dougstubes.com/power-tubes/el34-kt77-6ca7/jj-6ca7.html


----------



## efiltsohg

vick1000 said:


> http://www.dougstubes.com/ruby-el34-bht.html
> 
> http://www.dougstubes.com/power-tubes/el34-kt77-6ca7/jj-6ca7.html



Is there any particular reason to use the Ruby EL34-BHT over the more popular Ruby EL34B-STR? How do the two compare?

Also, does anybody know if the Chinese Groove Tubes EL34-M is the same as the Ruby BSTR? Which as far as I can tell is the same as the Sino EL34-B?


----------



## oneblackened

efiltsohg said:


> Are there any current production EL34s that are worth a damn? I'm eyeing a used Laney...


I swear by Gold Lion KT77s in EL34 amps. They're expensive but they're super durable. If not that, then I would just spend the extra cash on the Mesa branded Winged Cs (STR-442). $200 for a quad is quite reasonable for Winged Cs and they're very durable indeed. It's too bad SED isn't making audio tubes any more. 



efiltsohg said:


> Is there any particular reason to use the Ruby EL34-BHT over the more popular Ruby EL34B-STR? How do the two compare?


 The BHT can handle considerably higher screen voltage (550V is the rating, iirc) but is otherwise similar to the BSTR. It's _VERY_ hard to find datasheets for Chinese tubes, you sort of have to trust that they are what they say they are.



efiltsohg said:


> Also, does anybody know if the Chinese Groove Tubes EL34-M is the same as the Ruby BSTR? Which as far as I can tell is the same as the Sino EL34-B?


It's not. I have some EL34Ms in front of me, and it's a distinct design from the big bottle Chinese EL34s. The Shuguang (Sino) EL34B is the same tube as the BSTR, Ruby just tests theirs very strictly.


----------



## oneblackened

So... got an NOS or at least "tests NOS" Tesla E83CC. Should have my thoughts on it sometime today.


----------



## oneblackened

Okay, Tesla E83CC.

These tubes are fucking outstandingly good. Really surprised at how much of a difference it made. They look more or less like a JJ ECC83S, but share little in common other than that. They're bright but not edgy, they're super clear, and the low end is as solid and tight as can be. They're also dead quiet. If you can find one for a good price, get it! You can find tubes that "test NOS" or are NOS for $60-85 on eBay. 

With that said, make sure you don't confuse it for a JJ - they're faked more often than almost anything else I've seen (Amperex is pretty common, too). There are some pretty obvious giveaways, if you know what to look for. JJs have copper grid posts, Teslas have a silvery material. JJs have one getter ring support, Teslas have two. JJs have thinner bases with more of the bead around the pins exposed, Teslas have thicker bases with less of the bead exposed. JJs usually have a rounded top, Teslas are always more squared off.


----------



## efiltsohg

oneblackened said:


> It's not. I have some EL34Ms in front of me, and it's a distinct design from the big bottle Chinese EL34s. The Shuguang (Sino) EL34B is the same tube as the BSTR, Ruby just tests theirs very strictly.



Good to know. The Laney I just picked up came with a pair of (edit: pre-Fender) GT-EL34-Ms and they sound good, granted I haven't compared them to anything else yet.

The XXX came with GT-EL34-R which I'm guessing is EH. I might swap those for some JJ 6L6GC or KT77. Not really interested in spending $200 for gold lion KT77s


----------



## Seabeast2000

So general power tube question, do/would you notice a difference in tone between 6L6 and El34 in same master volume amp at bedroom levels?


----------



## efiltsohg

Do any of the new production 5751 tubes sound good, or am I better off shelling out for a JAN Phillips or GE?


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

efiltsohg said:


> Do any of the new production 5751 tubes sound good, or am I better off shelling out for a JAN Phillips or GE?



I've been happy with the JJ 5751's I've had, though I haven't been able to compare them to anything NOS


----------



## efiltsohg

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> I've been happy with the JJ 5751's I've had, though I haven't been able to compare them to anything NOS


Good enough for me... the price is right on them anyway!


----------



## oneblackened

The906 said:


> So general power tube question, do/would you notice a difference in tone between 6L6 and El34 in same master volume amp at bedroom levels?


Generally yes, they behave differently in the same circuit. EL34s generally like slightly lower plate-plate impedance than 6L6s, and pentodes in general are slightly higher %THD at all levels. It's more noticeable at higher volume. 




efiltsohg said:


> Do any of the new production 5751 tubes sound good, or am I better off shelling out for a JAN Phillips or GE?


To my understanding no modern 5751 is actually a 5751, but rather a low testing 12AX7 The JJ _might_ be an actual to-spec 5751, but I'm not sure. IMO, go NOS for these - they're pretty cheap.


----------



## vick1000

The906 said:


> So general power tube question, do/would you notice a difference in tone between 6L6 and El34 in same master volume amp at bedroom levels?


Absolutely, at least in traditional circuits, there are amps out there in which they act really similar. Of course the higher the volume, the more you will notice.


----------



## Seabeast2000

vick1000 said:


> Absolutely, at least in traditional circuits, there are amps out there in which they act really similar. Of course the higher the volume, the more you will notice.



Well that's good enough to warrant trying some 6L6s next in this Schecter using its little switcheroo. Thanks.


----------



## oneblackened

More tube reviews? Yup.

Tung-Sol 7581A: Of all the new production 6L6GCs, this is my favorite if you want a power amp that stays clean. Gobs and gobs of headroom, given that they're 35 watt maximum plate dissipation. Really solid bottom end, smooth mids, bright highs. They're also able to withstand very high voltage - As in, suitable for the goofy voltages in an Ampeg V4, for example. Only downside, the breakup is not as pleasant as some - kind of edgy. But none of us are actually aiming for that, are we?


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

oneblackened said:


> More tube reviews? Yup.
> 
> Tung-Sol 7581A: Of all the new production 6L6GCs, this is my favorite if you want a power amp that stays clean. Gobs and gobs of headroom, given that they're 35 watt maximum plate dissipation. Really solid bottom end, smooth mids, bright highs. They're also able to withstand very high voltage - As in, suitable for the goofy voltages in an Ampeg V4, for example. Only downside, the breakup is not as pleasant as some - kind of edgy. But none of us are actually aiming for that, are we?



Sounds interesting. By the description, they seem like they'd be a good fit for a 5150 or Rectifier since they rely on a lot of clean headroom and depth from the power section


----------



## oneblackened

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> Sounds interesting. By the description, they seem like they'd be a good fit for a 5150 or Rectifier since they rely on a lot of clean headroom and depth from the power section


Excellent fit for a 5150.


----------



## oneblackened

Here's something interesting... JJ is making a frame grid ECC83. 
Per Eurotubes (who have probably the closest relation with JJ of any of their distributors) on Instagram:


Here's hoping these are good. Tesla E83CCs are fucking awesome (seriously, best preamp tubes I've tried bar none), but they're in relatively short supply and aren't particularly cheap at ~$75 US each (nevermind Telefunken ECC803Ss at over $1000 each NOS), and if JJ can pull this off well, I'll probably end up defaulting to these for my amps and for repairs.


----------



## oneblackened

Couple updates:

1. Bought one of the JJ E83CCs. They're out now. Supposed to be the same character as the standard ECC83S, but not so dark and a bit more open. Apparently they're even quieter than the ECC83S too -and if they're equivalent to the Tesla I've got now, they're extraordinarily low noise. Expect some follow-up. 
2. Also managed to get my hands on a quad of Sylvania 6L6GCs (specifically, the 2 top getter STR-415 style) from the late 80s. These are everything the SEDs are and more, though they are on average quite expensive (I got a screaming deal and paid about $170 for the quad). But yeah, really really nice. On average actually kind of on the warm side of things for 6L6s.


----------



## @zwen

I’ve owned two Krank amplifiers before. The Nineteen80 head was a bit too dry, but I had a Krankenstein+ halfstack later on that sounded amazing.

View attachment 73888


----------



## oneblackened

@zwen said:


> I’ve owned two Krank amplifiers before. The Nineteen80 head was a bit too dry, but I had a Krankenstein+ halfstack later on that sounded amazing.
> 
> View attachment 73888


Funny you mention Krank. I have a Rev1 on my bench right now and that thing is simultaneously really well designed and really fucking stupidly put together.


----------



## c7spheres

- Mesa V-Twin rack- Original Mesa Chinese 12ax7a-str from the 90's nos in both positions
- Vht 2-50-2 in class a mode using nos Winged-C El34's, Ruby 12at7 in pos 1 and original Mesa Chinese-2 12ax7-a in pos.2. 
- To Ev Force 12 speakers (guitar, not PA version)
- I love the sound. The original Chinese tubes and original Chinese 2 are not the same as the Chinese tubes today. They are less hollow sounding and have tighter gain and clarity from what I can describe. I bought out Mesa's stock of the last ones they had about 15 years ago. I never wanted to be without them so I bought them up, and glad I did. I'm such a jerk for doing that but you can still get them nowadays for around $30 each. I've tried them in the Quad preamp, the Triaxis (not sure which version) and the Formula as well. It brings them all to life and makes them even better. Tried them in the 2:90, 2:50, 20/20 and Peavey Classic 50/50 as well. They are good in the 20/20 but the other Mesa's it gave them to much gain. The Peavey didn't change much I think because it already had the same preamp tubes in it anyways.


----------



## Zado

oneblackened said:


> Bought one of the JJ E83CCs. They're out now. Supposed to be the same character as the standard ECC83S, but not so dark and a bit more open. Apparently they're even quieter than the ECC83S too -and if they're equivalent to the Tesla I've got now, they're extraordinarily low noise. Expect some follow-up


Curious about those. Always found the regular ecc83s by JJ very smooth and dull in the upper end.


----------



## oneblackened

Zado said:


> Curious about those. Always found the regular ecc83s by JJ very smooth and dull in the upper end.


It's a bit brighter, yeah, and even quieter.


----------



## Zado

oneblackened said:


> It's a bit brighter, yeah, and even quieter.


"Bit brighter" as Tung Sol / EH bright, or just slightly brighter?


----------



## oneblackened

Zado said:


> "Bit brighter" as Tung Sol / EH bright, or just slightly brighter?


Just slightly. It's akin to the Tesla E83CC I've got.


----------



## Zado

oneblackened said:


> Just slightly. It's akin to the Tesla E83CC I've got.


Mmm ok than it's not what I'm looking for. Needing some crispy pretubes with lots of presence and high mods emphasis. I'd love some TSs but they just don't last


----------



## vick1000

Zado said:


> Mmm ok than it's not what I'm looking for. Needing some crispy pretubes with lots of presence and high mods emphasis. I'd love some TSs but they just don't last


Chinese Mesas.


----------



## c7spheres

vick1000 said:


> Chinese Mesas.


 Hey, You're giving out all the secrets man. What are you doing?!  Just kdding. I love my Mesa Chinese 12Ax7's. They are the old style that came in all the gear of the day from the 80's to mid 90's. They're pretty hard to find now and different than what's offered today by Mesa and sound different. I like the older ones more but they are a bit higher gain and more saturated from what I can remember. This first link is what the Mesa Chinese-2 tubes looked like though I'm not sure if those are Chinese or not they look exactly like them. The second is what the originals looked like, but The Original Mesa Chinese don't say Chinese on them, they say Mesa 12ax7-a-str, And have 2 wires going to the top of the getter part instead of one, but look the same. The grids on both are way larger too than what's offered now.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=323940008901

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=303272844839

Althouth the second link looks like the originals they are 12ax7-b, which I've tried and the difference between the A's and B's is amount of gain. The reality is that the B's usually have enough gain but will make you turn the gain knob higher which will equal more noise for the same amount of gain it seems. The classic combination from the 80's and 90's was always Chinese preamp tubes and Russian power amp tubes for the rock tones. Marshalls and Mesa came stock with that combination back then.


----------



## vick1000

Sorry, I but I run all digital now, so I guess I should stay out of it. 

I believe the Mesas were hand picked 5th and 7th gen Sinos or Shuguangs, but even the modern SPAX7 are pretty good.

The best I have ever heard though, are by far NOS RFT (Telefunkin?) ECC83, but they are a risk as are all NOS, the source needs to be trust worthy.


----------



## oneblackened

Mesa Chinese were the old square getter Beijing made 12AX7s. Brighter than the sun.


----------



## Jon Pearson

Figured I'd throw this in, just retubed a Krankenstein +

Quad of matched Sovtek 6550WE, got them with a burn since I have had problems with them being DOA, biased to about 50% dissipation (I like it a bit cooler than the usual 70%)

JJ ECC83S for the the three preamp slots, Sovtek 12AX7 LPS for the phase inverter.

Nothing special, but this sounds pretty fantastic as is, my first amp that runs 6550s so that's neat.


----------



## oneblackened

Jon Pearson said:


> Figured I'd throw this in, just retubed a Krankenstein +
> 
> Quad of matched Sovtek 6550WE, got them with a burn since I have had problems with them being DOA, biased to about 50% dissipation (I like it a bit cooler than the usual 70%)
> 
> JJ ECC83S for the the three preamp slots, Sovtek 12AX7 LPS for the phase inverter.
> 
> Nothing special, but this sounds pretty fantastic as is, my first amp that runs 6550s so that's neat.


Good choice on the Sovteks. Those are arguably the best 6550s on the market.


----------



## Jon Pearson

oneblackened said:


> Good choice on the Sovteks. Those are arguably the best 6550s on the market.



Glad to be affirmed, I mostly went with them because even the minor difference in price is a big deal for me right now. I have had rotten luck with their 6L6GCs and 5881s, so it's good to hear positive things about the 6550s.


----------



## oneblackened

Jon Pearson said:


> Glad to be affirmed, I mostly went with them because even the minor difference in price is a big deal for me right now. I have had rotten luck with their 6L6GCs and 5881s, so it's good to hear positive things about the 6550s.


 They're by far the most durable on the market as far as I'm aware. I think the JJs sound better but I've had rotten luck with JJs other than the 6L6GCs, 6V6s, KT88s and the various 12AX7s I've got.


----------



## Jon Pearson

Here's a question for all of you - has anyone tried running KT88s or similar (6550s for example) in a Roadster/Rectifier? I have a Roadster that I just bought new 6L6GCs for, but I was thinking that 6550s in particular might do something cool for the sound, the concern as usual is that the heater current would be too much.


----------



## oneblackened

Jon Pearson said:


> Here's a question for all of you - has anyone tried running KT88s or similar (6550s for example) in a Roadster/Rectifier? I have a Roadster that I just bought new 6L6GCs for, but I was thinking that 6550s in particular might do something cool for the sound, the concern as usual is that the heater current would be too much.


I ran KT88s for a bit in a Rev G. It's a cool sound but they draw significantly more B+ current and heater current than 6L6s. Power transformer got real hot. As such... wouldn't advise it.


----------



## Jon Pearson

oneblackened said:


> I ran KT88s for a bit in a Rev G. It's a cool sound but they draw significantly more B+ current and heater current than 6L6s. Power transformer got real hot. As such... wouldn't advise it.



Good to know, thanks!


----------



## juicedpeppers

First post here! I just bought an EVH 5150 III but I'm not familiar with the particular tubes that are in it. I have a replacement set of 6L6s that I'd like to throw in just to hear the difference in sound but I have no idea what tubes are in my amp right now. They are called KBM 7s on the tubes. Anyone know what these are?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Thinking about getting a retube on my SL/LD preamp (Recto based).

I was curious which route i should go...
Shunguang 12ax7b in all slots 
Tungsol in all slots 
Tung sol in v1 and the rest Shuguang 
Shuguang in v1 and the rest Tung Sol


----------



## c7spheres

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Thinking about getting a retube on my SL/LD preamp (Recto based).
> 
> I was curious which route i should go...
> Shunguang 12ax7b in all slots
> Tungsol in all slots
> Tung sol in v1 and the rest Shuguang
> Shuguang in v1 and the rest Tung Sol




-I don't know what all the slots in your preamp are for or connected to and I can't remember what Tungsol was like but I know Shuguang 12ax7-b's (and a's) worked great for clean and heavy tones. I tried them in a Rockmaster pre, Rocktron Piranha and V-Twin rack pre and like them much more than the ecc83 and 7025's. I could see some people prefering the ecc83 or 7025 for a more tamed/spongy? clean tone, but the Shuguangs were big, deep and colder if that makes sense. Like clinical and sterile more. 
- I think all these numbers are specifying different voltages, gain amounts, noise amounts and production run numbers and if they're European or not etc. I forget but the info is probably out there. 

- The Shuguangs also worked well in the Peavey classic 50/50, Mesa 50/50, Mesa 2:90, Mesa 20/20 and my VHT 2-50-2 as well power amps (even though I don't think I was supposed to put them certain slots in the VHT if I remember right. I just plugged them in like an idiot before I knew what I was doing and thought everything was compatible at that time. Lucky I didnt' screw something up!
- Once I got my stock of Old Chinese 12ax7-A's though in my preamp I never looked back and pretty much stopped caring because I got what I wanted from them.


----------



## DudeManBrother

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Thinking about getting a retube on my SL/LD preamp (Recto based).
> 
> I was curious which route i should go...
> Shunguang 12ax7b in all slots
> Tungsol in all slots
> Tung sol in v1 and the rest Shuguang
> Shuguang in v1 and the rest Tung Sol


Tung Sol for V1, Sovtek LPS for PI, and Shuguang B’s or JJ’s for the rest is usually a pretty safe bet for high gain.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

DudeManBrother said:


> Tung Sol for V1, Sovtek LPS for PI, and Shuguang B’s or JJ’s for the rest is usually a pretty safe bet for high gain.



I'll look into that setup with the Shuguangs. I have old JJs and Sovteks in this thing and it sounds like It could use a retube

I just remember Shuguangs being pretty bright so i thought they'd sound good in V1 of this preamp due to the dark nature of the amp. I'm assuming the Tung Sols are tighter?


----------



## DudeManBrother

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'll look into that setup with the Shuguangs. I have old JJs and Sovteks in this thing and it sounds like It could use a retube
> 
> I just remember Shuguangs being pretty bright so i thought they'd sound good in V1 of this preamp due to the dark nature of the amp. I'm assuming the Tung Sols are tighter?


Tung Sols are bright, JJs are usually on the darker side, Shuguangs are relatively balanced and high gain; but typically a bit noisy/hissy. For that reason, I don’t like them in V1, but they work well for the bulk of stages when you’re in a budget.


----------



## DudeManBrother

It’s worth noting that tons of OEMs use Shuguangs, they just have the benefit of selecting the best tubes. You can get some low noise tubes in the $10 range, but I find way more with a noticeable noise floor than without. It’s nothing a noise gate can’t cover up, and usually it’s not extreme, but should be mentioned.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

DudeManBrother said:


> Tung Sols are bright, JJs are usually on the darker side, Shuguangs are relatively balanced and high gain; but typically a bit noisy/hissy. For that reason, I don’t like them in V1, but they work well for the bulk of stages when you’re in a budget.





DudeManBrother said:


> It’s worth noting that tons of OEMs use Shuguangs, they just have the benefit of selecting the best tubes. You can get some low noise tubes in the $10 range, but I find way more with a noticeable noise floor than without. It’s nothing a noise gate can’t cover up, and usually it’s not extreme, but should be mentioned.



Aaah I see. Well I may grab some tubes from TubeDepot when I get the chance. They sell Sino 12AX7Bs which IIRC are just Shuguangs. I'll go with the 1 TS, 3 SG, and 1 ST combo.

Whats the deal with the Sovtek in the PI?


----------



## efiltsohg

juicedpeppers said:


> First post here! I just bought an EVH 5150 III but I'm not familiar with the particular tubes that are in it. I have a replacement set of 6L6s that I'd like to throw in just to hear the difference in sound but I have no idea what tubes are in my amp right now. They are called KBM 7s on the tubes. Anyone know what these are?



Not ringing any bells, can you post a pic? Which exact amp is it? New or used?

I think the 50/100 heads come stock with JJ 6L6GC tubes right now


----------



## DudeManBrother

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Whats the deal with the Sovtek in the PI?



The LPS (long plate, spiral filament) are built with the intention of being balanced on each triode, so it makes sense to use in the phase inversion slot. Long plates usually means extra noise, so PI is the all around ideal slot for them. You can use them in other non-cathode follower slots (they burn out quickly in CF stages), and you can also use non balanced triodes in PI slots. It’s just a general practice that many amps use.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Only issue is I'm not sure what the tube layout of the R&R SL/LD is.  I messaged them and I'm hoping I get a response.


----------



## juicedpeppers

efiltsohg said:


> Not ringing any bells, can you post a pic? Which exact amp is it? New or used?
> 
> I think the 50/100 heads come stock with JJ 6L6GC tubes right now


I bought this used and it's a EVH 5150 III the grill doesn't say which version. I'll try to post a pic. I don't know if this one help's at all haha


----------



## efiltsohg

juicedpeppers said:


> I bought this used and it's a EVH 5150 III the grill doesn't say which version. I'll try to post a pic. I don't know if this one help's at all haha
> View attachment 76446



open it up and pull one out, they should say something on the glass. KBM7 would just be a rating or test result from whatever the tube vendor is and doesn't tell us much

That looks like a 6L6, I take it this is the 50W or 100W head? not one of the lunchboxes


----------



## juicedpeppers

efiltsohg said:


> open it up and pull one out, they should say something on the glass. KBM7 would just be a rating or test result from whatever the tube vendor is and doesn't tell us much
> 
> That looks like a 6L6, I take it this is the 50W or 100W head? not one of the lunchboxes


Yes it's the 50 watt head, and ok I'll do that. Thanks for the help


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

So I talked with someone from R&R Sound (thanks Valery ) and it looks like I have an idea for what I need to do

V1: Chinese 12AX7B (clean)
V2: Tung Sol 12AX7 (Lead blue and red input)
V3 & V4: 12AX7B (lead channels, just not specific about what they do )
V5: Sovtek LPS (FX loop)


----------



## Mourguitars

I went " tube " crazy last night ...gheez....havent bought any in a long while. When i had my AX8 i had friends come raid my stash..took everything with gold pins..oh well

Was kinda shocked at the $$$ to retube my Mesa 2:90 , it has JJ's in it and hasn't been played that much since 2010..im going have them tested when i take my Blackstar to have repaired later in the week but i did buy these below, ....hope i didn't waste $48...

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=312627028557

Most likely OEM big builders use them....

I found these in my what's left stash , anyone using these ? I have no idea why i bought them when they blew them out dirt cheap...

Mike


----------



## c7spheres

^ 
What are those? Are those them solid state tubes?


----------



## Mourguitars

Yea...JetCity RetroValves..Cool to the touch , low, med,high gain 100% analog . going to check out the Google reviews. I think AMT came out with something like it too around 2012 ish..Bought the 3 pack $14 shipped blow out from J.C ....never even tried them


----------



## oneblackened

So, for 6550s: What do you like? JJ KT88s are too dark for my Juno, but Tung-Sol 7581As are a bit too bright and scooped. As I understand it a 6550 should slot somewhere in the middle.


----------



## DudeManBrother

oneblackened said:


> So, for 6550s: What do you like? JJ KT88s are too dark for my Juno, but Tung-Sol 7581As are a bit too bright and scooped. As I understand it a 6550 should slot somewhere in the middle.


That pretty much leaves you with Svetlanas then. Maybe some NOS winged C if you can find them for a decent price.


----------



## The Spanish Inquisition

Alright, need me some new preamp tubes because my current ones are too screechy when gaining it up. I'm gonna replace the tubes with a 12au7 in V1, a 12at7 in V2 and 12ax7s in V3 and V4. I'm looking into Mullards, getting it done correctly immediately, but I'm stuck choosing between standard tubes or balanced tubes. Anyone know what the balanced set will give me for the 25% upcharge?


----------



## oneblackened

The Spanish Inquisition said:


> Alright, need me some new preamp tubes because my current ones are too screechy when gaining it up. I'm gonna replace the tubes with a 12au7 in V1, a 12at7 in V2 and 12ax7s in V3 and V4. I'm looking into Mullards, getting it done correctly immediately, but I'm stuck choosing between standard tubes or balanced tubes. Anyone know what the balanced set will give me for the 25% upcharge?


In a guitar amp? Literally nothing of any value. A 12AU7 into a 12AT7 is going to be significantly less gain than 2 12AX7s - might I suggest trying a 5751 in V1 first, and if that's not enough try another in V2?


----------



## Seabeast2000

Anyone try the high gain versions of eurotubes' selections?


----------



## oneblackened

The906 said:


> Anyone try the high gain versions of eurotubes' selections?


Yeah. They're just higher gain, around 110-115. Not much point if you ask me, all the tubes they sell are within ~10% tolerance.


----------



## Seabeast2000

oneblackened said:


> Yeah. They're just higher gain, around 110-115. Not much point if you ask me, all the tubes they sell are within ~10% tolerance.


Good info I'll take that option out for my needs.


----------



## Super Crunchy Studios

Tung Sol 12AX7s for the preamp
JJ 6L6GC (made in Slovakia) for the power amp


----------



## D-Nasty

The906 said:


> Anyone try the high gain versions of eurotubes' selections?



I just bought a complete High Gain re-tube kit for a Mesa Triple Rectifier from Eurotubes. I'm not really loving the pre-amp tubes. The JJ's are extremely dark & dull sounding.

I have a few spare Tung-Sol, Mesa & Fender 12AX7s that I'm thinking about trying in V1 to brighten it up a bit.


----------



## Mourguitars

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> I just bought a complete High Gain re-tube kit for a Mesa Triple Rectifier from Eurotubes. I'm not really loving the pre-amp tubes. The JJ's are extremely dark & dull sounding.
> 
> I have a few spare Tung-Sol, Mesa & Fender 12AX7s that I'm thinking about trying in V1 to brighten it up a bit.



Try your Tung-sol.....if not i really like these , for some reason these Foil Getters are pretty awesome. 
The reg pin GL from china are pretty bright as well....

Mike
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=184200144673


----------



## D-Nasty

Mourguitars said:


> Try your Tung-sol.....if not i really like these , for some reason these Foil Getters are pretty awesome.
> The reg pin GL from china are pretty bright as well....
> 
> Mike
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=184200144673



So... I put the Tung-Sol in V1 & it really brought out that Rectifier fizz. It wasn't as bad at really high volume but I can't stand playing it that loud for long periods of time. Honestly, I prefer the JJ to this one. I hate fizz! The JJ is dark but it has a really satisfying low end chunk. If I can get my loop modded I plan on putting an EQ in there & that should brighten it up.


----------



## oneblackened

Shredi Knight 777 said:


> So... I put the Tung-Sol in V1 & it really brought out that Rectifier fizz. It wasn't as bad at really high volume but I can't stand playing it that loud for long periods of time. Honestly, I prefer the JJ to this one. I hate fizz! The JJ is dark but it has a really satisfying low end chunk. If I can get my loop modded I plan on putting an EQ in there & that should brighten it up.


If you want "JJ but less dark" you have two great options: 

1. JJ E83CC - this is a frame grid design and it's a bit more open and less muffled than the ECC83S all while simultaneously being quieter.
2. JJ ECC83MG - this is a slightly longer plate design, and it's a bit less compressed and is a bit more articulate. It kind of sounds like an old Amperex to me...


----------



## oneblackened

So I finally had some time to dig out my pair of Sylvania 6CA7s and try them out.

And, uh, yeah. Love these. It's like a 6L6 but fatter in the mids. Real nice. I think I'll buy a quad of the JJs and see if they're as good...


----------



## Mourguitars

I had friends bring me over all there old tubes, got a lot of USA 5751's a slew of the late 80's early 90's chinese square getters...to add to my collection . also jot a lot of JJ's and Sovtek's and a another slew of marshall labeled 12ax7's...all tested strong ! Bunches of 6L6's and Mesa EL84's some are blow, haven't tested those yet

Never thought i would start to fill the bottom of that box !......i hate plain white boxes so i reused and bought some labeled boxes...gotta make labels with my P-Touch

Mike


----------



## c7spheres

@Mourguitars ; You have some great friends.


----------



## Mourguitars

c7spheres said:


> @Mourguitars ; You have some great friends.




Yea i do ! I pay it forward alot...it all comes back, i have a bunch of Blackburn Mullards and Bugle boys coming my way as well...Sad story tho, ill leave it at that but ill cherish them tho !


----------



## oneblackened

https://www.tubedepot.com/products/electro-harmonix-7025-eh-preamp-vacuum-tube

EHX has a new tube out. Looks to be their take on the frame grid 12AX7 thing that JJ started with the E83CC. Initial reports are that it's extremely quiet, albeit relatively low gain for a 12AX7 (i.e. spec mu of 100, actual tubes in the mid-80s) - which might explain the noise performance as lower gain = lower noise.

@Mourguitars has a couple, as he showed me on TGP.


----------



## Mourguitars

Yea...ill try them out this weekend and report back

Mike


----------



## Emperoff

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> So I talked with someone from R&R Sound (thanks Valery ) and it looks like I have an idea for what I need to do
> 
> V1: Chinese 12AX7B (clean)
> V2: Tung Sol 12AX7 (Lead blue and red input)
> V3 & V4: 12AX7B (lead channels, just not specific about what they do )
> V5: Sovtek LPS (FX loop)



Dunno if you figured this out already, but researching the preamp (I'm hunting for one) the layout goes like this:

- Channel 1: V1
- Channel 2: V2 & V3
- Channel 3: V3 & V4.

So you could probably toss a 5751 in V4 since the lead channel seems to have a fuckton of gain.


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth

Does anyone know if you can pull the preamp tubes from an amp head and use only the power section with an external preamp? I don't NEED to do this... I'm just curious more than anything else.


----------



## Mourguitars

oneblackened said:


> https://www.tubedepot.com/products/electro-harmonix-7025-eh-preamp-vacuum-tube
> 
> EHX has a new tube out. Looks to be their take on the frame grid 12AX7 thing that JJ started with the E83CC. Initial reports are that it's extremely quiet, albeit relatively low gain for a 12AX7 (i.e. spec mu of 100, actual tubes in the mid-80s) - which might explain the noise performance as lower gain = lower noise.
> 
> @Mourguitars has a couple, as he showed me on TGP.




They sound very good , very quite as described....i did loose a little gain, but was very nice cranking the gain full and being dead quite , but i boost my amps anyway

The Tube pins are lite wire...like most NP tubes but that is what it is...but its a nice tube , its def worth having a few around...its worth the $

Mike


----------



## Emperoff

sonoftheoldnorth said:


> Does anyone know if you can pull the preamp tubes from an amp head and use only the power section with an external preamp? I don't NEED to do this... I'm just curious more than anything else.



And why don't just using the power section without pulling out the tubes? Is as simple as pluging straight into the "FX return" jack. That's exactly how I run my combo amps.


----------



## sonoftheoldnorth

Emperoff said:


> And why don't just using the power section without pulling out the tubes? Is as simple as pluging straight into the "FX return" jack. That's exactly how I run my combo amps.


Yes thanks, I already know how to run into the power section and do so already, I am just curious. Plus it would free up some preamp valves to mess around swapping or for spares.


----------



## Mourguitars

Been kinda on a tube buying binge , got most of them in and bought a assortment. All test very strong and a few sellers thru in a few extras in the deal...gotta love that !

Mike




House branded I61 and I63 Mullards





Amperex dimpled disk getters...




RCA 7025s




RFT and RWN ...guy sent a extra because 2 were unlabeled...took 2 weeks from Europe to get




Amperex Holland and Canadian made mix....1st package got lost at customs, so he sent out another with 4 xtra tubes for the hassle and quite nice of him !...they do the start up flash...he also sent 2 Japanese baldwins, i have 8 Japan/Mullards tooling coming..it also had a 10M tube in the lot







Shield Brand 12AX7...cant find any info on this brand, it tests super strong..i kinda like the look of the box, has a date code and what is left of a rectangular box logo where the 12AX7 was labeled.....any guesses on Manufacture....

Mike


----------



## c7spheres

Mourguitars said:


> Been kinda on a tube buying binge , got most of them in and bought a assortment. All test very strong and a few sellers thru in a few extras in the deal...gotta love that !
> 
> Mike
> 
> View attachment 80919
> 
> 
> House branded I61 and I63 Mullards
> 
> 
> View attachment 80920
> 
> 
> Amperex dimpled disk getters...
> 
> View attachment 80921
> 
> 
> RCA 7025s
> 
> View attachment 80922
> 
> 
> RFT and RWN ...guy sent a extra because 2 were unlabeled...took 2 weeks from Europe to get
> 
> View attachment 80923
> 
> 
> Amperex Holland and Canadian made mix....1st package got lost at customs, so he sent out another with 4 xtra tubes for the hassle and quite nice of him !...they do the start up flash...he also sent 2 Japanese baldwins, i have 8 Japan/Mullards tooling coming..it also had a 10M tube in the lot
> 
> View attachment 80924
> 
> 
> View attachment 80925
> 
> 
> Shield Brand 12AX7...cant find any info on this brand, it tests super strong..i kinda like the look of the box, has a date code and what is left of a rectangular box logo where the 12AX7 was labeled.....any guesses on Manufacture....
> 
> Mike


 I don't know much about old tubes but I hear you can find out who actually makes the tube by the little numbers or symbols molded into the glass on the bottom in the middle between the pins.


----------



## Mourguitars

That Shield labeled 12ax7 is a 1964 Tungsol

Mike


----------



## Mourguitars

https://tubedatabase.co/tubes/tube:ECC83

Heres a good link, i like to look , read and learn...its been helpful to me at least

Mike


----------



## bluesmetalguy

I just bought my first tube amp. I've played on and off for many years but only had solid state amps. I'm transitioning from playing metal to blues but still want to thrash out some metal riffs occasionally. My new amp (Laney cub 15w head and 2x12 cab gets nice blues tones but is completely incapable of anything close to a good metal sound (even with pedals). So I'm wondering if it's worth trying different tubes or if I should just buy another head for metal. I've heard the orange micro terror dark is good for metal.


----------



## DudeManBrother

bluesmetalguy said:


> I just bought my first tube amp. I've played on and off for many years but only had solid state amps. I'm transitioning from playing metal to blues but still want to thrash out some metal riffs occasionally. My new amp (Laney cub 15w head and 2x12 cab gets nice blues tones but is completely incapable of anything close to a good metal sound (even with pedals). So I'm wondering if it's worth trying different tubes or if I should just buy another head for metal. I've heard the orange micro terror dark is good for metal.


Tubes can help fine tune an amps character, or fix an issue; but won’t turn a low gain amp into a high gain amp. Rock the Laney on the blues nights, and grab a high gain head for the other nights.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

What's a good KT88/6550 brand? I'm thinking about swapping the 6L6s in my Revv because I have more than enough 6L6 amps.


----------



## USMarine75

I put Genalex KT77 in my Victory RK50C and wow. Worth it. The low end of 6L6, the early breakup of EL34 (but not as early), and touch sensitive. The amp is a single channel amp you control with your guitar volume knob. With the KT77 you get amazing cleans with the amp dimed but guitar rolled back, and then full on you get a cranked Marshall (minus the 412 blast of air)... although the oversized 112 cab pushes a lot of air at 50w. I cant recommend those enough.

I just got Genalex matched 12AX7's in the mail but haven't bothered to install them now that the stock tone is so good.



Mourguitars said:


> I had friends bring me over all there old tubes, got a lot of USA 5751's a slew of the late 80's early 90's chinese square getters...to add to my collection . also jot a lot of JJ's and Sovtek's and a another slew of marshall labeled 12ax7's...all tested strong ! Bunches of 6L6's and Mesa EL84's some are blow, haven't tested those yet
> 
> Never thought i would start to fill the bottom of that box !......i hate plain white boxes so i reused and bought some labeled boxes...gotta make labels with my P-Touch
> 
> Mike
> 
> View attachment 79192



How does this not have more likes???


----------



## TheWarAgainstTime

KnightBrolaire said:


> What's a good KT88/6550 brand? I'm thinking about swapping the 6L6s in my Revv because I have more than enough 6L6 amps.



No complaints with the EHX KT88 sets I've had 

JJ ones sound good too, but have a bit less high end. Also, I don't know if it's typical of the JJ models, but my set makes a lot of rattling noise whenever I record with a load box. Not an issue through a cabinet, but kind of annoying when I'm trying to record silently


----------



## Mourguitars

Been tube rolling, ...again. 

Ceriatone 800 with the PPI-MV/LAR mod...

Mullard I63 in V1 was sweet-smooth- very buttery or creamy best way to describe it...unlike the Chinese 12AX7 that was on the brighter side and more gain. I tried lots of different tubes NOS and Current production but settled on a Amperex/Canada in V1

V2.....I put a Rogers/Canada , i believe its a Amperex as well....both of these tubes in V1-V2 really make this 800 really sing with a SD-1 boosting it...really love the tone

V3....tried lots of tubes..12AX7LPS, current JJ's, ECC803....but a ECC83 Ei Yugoslavia rounded out the line up...man is that a sweet tube in that position 

Put some Apex Matched JJ's EL34's it biased perfect, sounded a little brighter and tighter that the old Svetlana's El34's...it seemed like those tubes had more sag maybe ??

Anyway, i buttoned it up...been rocking it and really digging that 800 sound....it sounds great with all my Guitars. I do change boost pedals if i need more gain, but i like the 800 sound

Tubes really made a difference in this amp.....i can get more gain by putting a Chinese square getter 12AX7 in V1 but i wanted a nice mid gain tube platform and boost if i need more gain.

The NOS tubes made me a believer .....they are very sweet in tone...

Mike


----------



## c7spheres

- Got some Mullard Reissue EL34's for my VHT 2-50-2 to check out. 
- I'm desperately searching for an acceptable (and less expensive) SED Winged-C (=C=) replacement. They are just really expensive nowadays. 
- I can see why these are the recommended =C= replacement and why Fryette uses them now. They sound very similar, but respond a bit different to dynamics. 
- They seem about 15% less dynamic (random guess)
- The sound stage is a little narrower also and the noise floor is increased too, but not enough to be annoying. I'd guess maybe about 4-6db louder and the sound stage is maybe 10% narrower. Again all subjective impressions.
- The Mid's are more pronounced and smooth and a bit more "chewy" yet still have bit and cut. They would probably cut a lot better in a mix than the =C=. The highs are nothing special for me and smoother too and the bass is a lot tighter and less boomy but with less "clang" to them than the =C= . 
- My guess is most people would probably actually prefer these to the =C= because of these features. They certainly get you more into that flat zone and ready to record or go to PA easier. 
- The Mullards certainly break up and saturate way faster than the =C= also. Like way faster. I can get to the volume I want before saturation, but just barely. Once they do break up though they are really good. The tone and sustain stays intact and it's a really pleasant saturation. Once they saturate though there's basically not much left in them in terms of volume of punch. That's basically what your gonna get it seems. 
- In comparison to the plain old JJ EL34's (black base, not the EL34L) They are almost right in between the =C= and the JJ EL34. The mids seem about the same tonally but louder. The JJ's have more bass than these Mullards (though not as much as the =C=) and the JJ's are more shrill on the high end. These Mullards have a tone of high end but none of it seems harsh at all. The highs are very smooth. To the point you may not be able to get it as piercing as you'd want. The JJ's low end is in between the =C= and the Mullards.
- These Mullards seem very low in harmonic content. I don't get all those swirlys happening like I do in the =C=. 
- Overall I think the Mullard reissue EL34's are a great tube but also kind of sterile. It's almost like my amp got turned into a solid state but retained a lot of the good tube characteristics. For saturation tones though I think they seem really nice. 
- The comparisons I made with the =C= were using my VHT 2-50-2 in both class-A and Class a/b modes and mixing them too at times. The a/b bias for each was set to around 35ma and the VHT was putting out about 500v. In class-a the VHT is a cathode bias and the Mullards read at 83ma and the =C= read at 92ma. 
I also tried rolling the driver stage tubes between JAN Phillips 12au7's, JJ ecc82's, and Ruby (Shuguang) 12u7's as well. The phase inverter used was a Shuguang Ruby 12ax7a and amp was set to 8ohms into both a Sequis Motherload fully loaded and also four 2x12's loaded with EV Force 12's (guitar/not PA version). 
-
In conclusion these are great tubes that most people would probably love and maybe even like more than the =C= but since I've been spoled all these years using =C= I really do prefer them over the Mullards so much that I'm gonna sell these and buy some more, but for the price I don't know if these can be beat. I'm currently looking at the Shuguang Preferred Series as I hear good things about those too. I really would love to find an equal or better than =C= replacement for less money though.


----------



## drgordonfreeman

Is there a current production tube resembling anything close to the sound of the Mullard I61?


----------



## Emperoff

drgordonfreeman said:


> Is there a current production tube resembling anything close to the sound of the Mullard I61?



Not a chance.


----------



## wheresthefbomb

Got down a rabbit hole of replacing preamp and PI tubes.

I bought a Sovtek 12ax7 LPS for the PI spot in my X100b because the internet told me it might give me more headroom and better bass response. I can't say for sure if it did that or not but it definitely made the amp more musical at high volume.

Tried a few others in various spots and it made no appreciable difference, ended up sticking with the Tung Sol set everywhere else.


----------



## USMarine75

Anyone else try JJ 6V6 tubes? Bought them for my Kasha Evil Robot and they are harsh AF. I have a pedestrian ear but these sound like garbage.

FWIW this was the Tube Depot description - "This is the newly released 6V6 that we have been waiting for. With a robust tone and great overhead - this may be one of the best sounding new production 6V6 available. Having a spiral filament - this tube is able to withstand the high voltages that some other 6V6 cannot."


----------



## Emperoff

wheresthefbomb said:


> Got down a rabbit hole of replacing preamp and PI tubes.
> 
> I bought a Sovtek 12ax7 LPS for the PI spot in my X100b because the internet told me it might give me more headroom and better bass response. I can't say for sure if it did that or not but it definitely made the amp more musical at high volume.
> 
> Tried a few others in various spots and it made no appreciable difference, ended up sticking with the Tung Sol set everywhere else.



If you really want lots of bass response, try to find an RCA 5751 3-Mica Black Plate for V1. Those things have massive low end extension.

The Sovtek LPS works well as a PI tube mainly because it can't work anywhere else, as they get microphonic just by looking at them


----------



## USMarine75

Emperoff said:


> If you really want lots of bass response, try to find an RCA 5751 3-Mica Black Plate for V1. Those things have massive low end extension.



Whew... $150 for a preamp tube though.


----------



## Emperoff

USMarine75 said:


> Whew... $150 for a preamp tube though.


You can find them for way less. I have one for sale at 85€. Definetely not cheap, though. These are from the 50s, and very scarce. Early Sylvanias are even more expensive (Gold Pin and blackplate military models).

Still, NOS 5751 tubes are way less expensive than "holy grail" 12AX7s. I've seen Mullards go at 4 figures). Funny enough old 5751 tubes were very rugged, with extra mica spacers, metal supporting rods, etc. Which makes them a much better tube for guitar amplifiers (unless gain reserve is limited).

To me there is no reason tu use something like Gold Lions at 45$ a pop when you can grab RFTs at 30 bucks. No need to go straight to the premium ones. I sure don't for my live amps, since I use 212 combos which are tube torture chambers . I've got one loaded with RFTs and the other with GE 5751s, both cheap and easy to find NOS tubes


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## drgordonfreeman

What are Gold Lions value proposition? As I understand it, they just take the same current production tubes everyone else has and relabel them Gold Lion


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## Emperoff

drgordonfreeman said:


> What are Gold Lions value proposition? As I understand it, they just take the same current production tubes everyone else has and relabel them Gold Lion



That's exactly what they are. There are only three tube factories in the world, and these are made by New Sensor(Sovtek/EHX). They're a rellabeled EHX gold pin model, IIRC. Same as the Mullard reissue is a renamed Sovtek LPS (at 2-3 times the price), and so on.

The only current production tube that is a step-up in quality over the rest is the new JJ E83CC. Apparently they managed to recreate the frame grid construction of the old Teslas (arguable one of the best preamp tubes ever made). So it's refreshing to see a tube factory actually bothering in *improving* their products after decades of accepting shit as "the new standard" from every tube manufacturer.

Can't wait to see a TAD, Ruby or GT version of it at 50€...


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## USMarine75

Emperoff said:


> That's exactly what they are. There are only three tube factories in the world, and these are made by New Sensor(Sovtek/EHX). They're a rellabeled EHX gold pin model, IIRC. Same as the Mullard reissue is a renamed Sovtek LPS (at 2-3 times the price), and so on.
> 
> The only current production tube that is a step-up in quality over the rest is the new JJ E83CC. Apparently they managed to recreate the frame grid construction of the old Teslas (arguable one of the best preamp tubes ever made). So it's refreshing to see a tube factory actually bothering in *improving* their products after decades of accepting shit as "the new standard" from every tube manufacturer.
> 
> Can't wait to see a TAD, Ruby or GT version of it at 50€...



Wait... are you saying there's nothing unobtanium about my Genalex Gold Lion KT77s? They have "beautiful artwork" on the glass, man. And they did make my Victory RK50C sound really ridiculously good IMO (stock comes with EL34, but can take 6L6/KT66 too).

https://tubedepot.com/products/genalex-gold-lion-kt77-power-vacuum-tube


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## technomancer

Emperoff said:


> That's exactly what they are. There are only three tube factories in the world, and these are made by New Sensor(Sovtek/EHX). They're a rellabeled EHX gold pin model, IIRC. Same as the Mullard reissue is a renamed Sovtek LPS (at 2-3 times the price), and so on.
> 
> The only current production tube that is a step-up in quality over the rest is the new JJ E83CC. Apparently they managed to recreate the frame grid construction of the old Teslas (arguable one of the best preamp tubes ever made). So it's refreshing to see a tube factory actually bothering in *improving* their products after decades of accepting shit as "the new standard" from every tube manufacturer.
> 
> Can't wait to see a TAD, Ruby or GT version of it at 50€...



Partially right, there are only 3 tube manufacturers (and IIRC Shuguang is currently moving their factory so only 2 right now) however you're off in that they don't each just make one or two variety of tube and then people rebadge them. Most of the reissue stuff are actually different designs being made in the same factory. For example, again IIRC, the Tung Sol and Mullard EL34 reissues are distinctly different tubes even though they are both out of the Russian (Sverlana?) factory and sold by the same company.

Some like TAD or Ruby you're paying for testing and increased quality control.


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## Emperoff

technomancer said:


> Partially right, there are only 3 tube manufacturers (and IIRC Shuguang is currently moving their factory so only 2 right now) however you're off in that they don't each just make one or two variety of tube and then people rebadge them. Most of the reissue stuff are actually different designs being made in the same factory. For example, again IIRC, the Tung Sol and Mullard EL34 reissues are distinctly different tubes even though they are both out of the Russian (Sverlana?) factory and sold by the same company.
> 
> Some like TAD or Ruby you're paying for testing and increased quality control.



I was talking about preamp tubes, and in this case the Mullard (long plate) is a rebadged Sovtek LPS. TAD has some models make to specs (made by Shuguang, which I like for powertubes) but they can be found in other places, including OEM in some amps. They're still made by the same people with the same tooling in the same factory, so it's not like there's an earth-shattering difference.

45$ for a current production preamp tube is quite ridiculous, though. You can get NOS tubes on eBay for less.



USMarine75 said:


> Wait... are you saying there's nothing unobtanium about my Genalex Gold Lion KT77s? They have "beautiful artwork" on the glass, man. And they did make my Victory RK50C sound really ridiculously good IMO (stock comes with EL34, but can take 6L6/KT66 too).
> 
> https://tubedepot.com/products/genalex-gold-lion-kt77-power-vacuum-tube



Putting _any_ KT77s in an EL34 amp usually has that effect!


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## c7spheres

Would love to try some Gold Lion KT77's in my 2502 just to know how they compare to the Winged C 34's in there right now, but $200+ on a quad and a coin toss is a bit steep right now. I guess if I didn't like them they'd have good resale value because I hear nothing but good stuff about them. 

- Any idea on reliability or other info on the the Gold Lions?


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## technomancer

Emperoff said:


> I was talking about preamp tubes, and in this case the Mullard (long plate) is a rebadged Sovtek LPS. TAD has some models make to specs (made by Shuguang, which I like for powertubes) but they can be found in other places, including OEM in some amps. They're still made by the same people with the same tooling in the same factory, so it's not like there's an earth-shattering difference.



Now I want to buy a Mullard to compare the the LPS I have a bunch of here  Looking at photos of the Mullard vs the LPS I have here it looks like the plates and getters are both different... I'll chuck one on my next tube order.

Also physical differences in tube design and materials composition do definitely make a difference in a number of areas including durability and sound, regardless of which factory they are coming out of. That applies for both pre and power tubes.

I do agree $45 for a new production 12AX7 is nuts.


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## USMarine75

technomancer said:


> I do agree $45 for a new production 12AX7 is nuts.



Especially if just one amp alone needs 7 of them


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## Mourguitars

The Gold Lions 12ax7's i bought a bunch, gold pin and reg pin..i put them in the Kartakou Pre amp...i like the JJ's that came with it better, but if i pull the unit out i might try the EHX 12ax7s...those are in the Rocktron pre amps and i like those

E83CC i really like in Ceriatone V1....i would recommend that tube and would buy a few more

EHX 7025 is another that is very quite and mellow gain for a new production

I have such a massive collection of all the ole desirables 12ax7 tubes ...i will never use them all , power tubes i buy in sets of 8 matched....i do have some EHX EL34 i havent tried yet, other than that JJ's Sleva , and Shuguang 6L6's and EL34's

Mike


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## Steinmetzify

JJs in everything except my Herbert.

El34s in the Dual Dark
6L6s in the Armageddon

Gold Lion KT66s/KT77s in the Herb

I’ve tried a few other tubes in that Diezel and it doesn’t sound as good. $250 to retube but fuck it it’s worth it.


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## thebeesknees22

Sooo, just curious. For ya'll that have a wall of amps, what's the yearly maintenance cost on tubes for them? lol

I'm always tempted to search the used market for some good heads, but the maintenance costs always makes me shy away from going down that road.


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## nightlight

I put a pair of Mullard KT88s in my VHT Sig:X. which was long overdue. Thank God I didn't sell the amp before I did that. Sounds awesome.

The results:


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## c7spheres

Hey, Anybody ever try these cheap Shuguang el34's out? I'm thinking even if they sound half way decent, or are more noisy, don't last as long etc, they'd still be worth it for practicing to save $ on the more expensive tubes, assuming they don't make my amp fry. Maybe they're great too. That would be really cool. They even have dual getters like my =c='s. 
- They're only like $40 a QUAD! : )


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## Mourguitars

I bought these in sets of eights.....they test great on my tester and my Tech's

In fact my Tech asked me where i bought them ...he liked the 6L6's...they were dirt cheap on eBay 

I had one EL34 go bad, emailed the seller and had a replacement in the mail that day..cant beat that service !

The seller was from Ohio...i closed my eBay account due to a hack

I guess the EHX goes well in the Marshals , so maybe ill pop them in my Ceriatone 800...i bought these when i was trying the fix the BS Series100...i gave up on that ..need a schematic but good luck on that ! Lol

Mike


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## DeathByButterslax

thebeesknees22 said:


> Sooo, just curious. For ya'll that have a wall of amps, what's the yearly maintenance cost on tubes for them? lol
> 
> I'm always tempted to search the used market for some good heads, but the maintenance costs always makes me shy away from going down that road.


They barely play any of them so tube life is longer


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## Emperoff

DeathByButterslax said:


> They barely play any of them so tube life is longer


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