# Best subwoofer for metal?



## Drache713

I currently have a 12" Kenwood sub being pushed at 380W RMS @ 4 ohms by a Pioneer GM-5300T amp...it sounds good, but not quite what I had in mind. It has too much "rumble", and not enough "punch". For double bass stuff it sometimes starts to become a wooley mess, and I'm looking for something tighter that can handle fast double bass. My girlfriend has a 8" Kicker Comp DVR being pushed at 200W RMS @ 2 ohms by an MTX Class D sub amp, and that thing fucking OWNS! I'm afraid to get in the car with her cause the double bass has so much clarity and punch I feel like I'm in the middle of a UFC fight! 

Can you guys recommend any subs to replace my 12" with? Should I go with a 10" or 8"?


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## sakeido

When it comes to subs, there is only one brand worth getting.. elemental designs. I had an old eD 12K in a ported box and even though it was a 12" in a ported box, it was the tightest and clearest sub you could possibly get for the money. It also got RETARDED loud when you wanted it to. I pushed it with a Hifonics Brutus 1000BXD 1,000 watt class D amp. The sub was only rated for 300 watts but it handled 500 all day, no problem.

Their subs have gotten even better since then and are still ridiculously cheap. One of these would definitely do the trick. Elemental Designs If you buy store-bought, you are totally wasting your money. I had Rockford Fosgates ($300), round Kicker Solo Barics ($300), Phoenix Gold Titaniums ($500ea.) and Xmaxes ($400ea.) and the $100 elemental DESTROYED all of them for both sound quality and volume. The only comparable stuff you can get would be JL W3v2s but they are far more than elementals and don't get anywhere near as loud, nor do they go as low.


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## Deaths Madrigal

haha, i have this exact same problem. I have a single 12" kenwood right now, but I was told getting two 10" woofers would be the best for metal. Apparently the smaller sizes do much better with the constant double bass and really help with the clarity. My only concern is that im one of those people who have to 'feel' the bass, not just hear it....so i worry the 10's may not provide the earth rattling.


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## Randy

Anything over a 10" have always sounded really loose and boomy, to me.

Another huge factor is setting the frequency on your crossover too high, or too low. Too high and every little sound causes your subwoofer to respond (which sounds noisy); and too low causes incessant rumbling and will probably cause your cabinet to "fart". 

What you want is a pair of high power 10" speakers, a la Boss SE102DVC 10" Component Subwoofers Car Subwoofers Car Audio and Video - Sonic Electronix 

Your power amp's not bad, but it'd be nice if it had an adjustable crossover. I say that because it looks like it has a fixed 80 Hz low pass filter, and I'd suggest it a hair higher than that for listening to metal. 

For the most part, you want a lower frequency bump for straight rap/hip-hop but you want something in the low-mid range (closer to where you'd bump the mids on guitar) for the good shit. 

For what you've got, I'd set the "gain" relatively low/medium (around 11 o' clock) and use the volume of your head unit (well, assuming that you have a descent pair of 6"x9" speakers to go with it...?) to drive more of it.


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## Drache713

I forgot to mention, I prefer sealed enclosures instead of ported or anything like that. And I'm good with just a single sub, don't really need 2 of em or anything like that.  And I'm not concerned about volume, 380W RMS is PLENTY loud enough for me! 

My headunit is where I set my crossover, it has an adjustable LPF from 53-160 Hz if I remember correctly for the subwoofer preamp output on it...I'm running 6 1/2" Pioneers all around for my full-range speakers.


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## Randy

In that case, kill the LPF on the subwoofer and set the LPF on the 'unit to ~100-110 Hz. Also, be sure not to "scoop" the EQ on your full range speakers... set it close to flat but bump it slightly around 300-350 Hz.

6 1/2" is alright, but the added "depth" of a pair of 6"x9" in the rear picks up a lot of the slack between the front-end speakers, and the subs.


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## synrgy

'feeling' the bass mostly has to do with placement.

I've got a 70 watt powered sub (blaupunkt) with a 7" speaker under my seat, and another of the same under my passenger seat. I get more than enough out of that set up with my volume at pretty low levels. The sub frequencies definitely reverberate through my body.

Then again, I'm frequently listening to recordings that actually have REAL sub frequencies in it, like stuff easily below 80hz.. (by and large, metal recordings just don't really have those frequencies in them...)

Another issue could be your crossover and/or preamp (head unit) settings. Try setting the sub's focus further away from 50-80hz range and closer to 120-150hz range, as that's usually where the kick sits in many recordings...

Just tell me we're not talking about a big stupid box that's sitting in your trunk. If that's the case, then that's probably your answer. Actually, that's a 2 parter: Part 1 is, that's just not a good place for them, contrary to popular belief. Part 2 is, if you've got a big sub box in your trunk and the speakers are facing outward towards your muffler, then you might need to set your head unit's subwoofer settings to 'reverse'.

I could easily be wrong about most of that, though.


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## sakeido

Deaths Madrigal said:


> haha, i have this exact same problem. I have a single 12" kenwood right now, but I was told getting two 10" woofers would be the best for metal. Apparently the smaller sizes do much better with the constant double bass and really help with the clarity. My only concern is that im one of those people who have to 'feel' the bass, not just hear it....so i worry the 10's may not provide the earth rattling.



That's a common myth that audio store guys tell you. The size of the sub has nothing to do with it.. the old problem of 12s and 15s sounding worse than 10s was because the subwoofer's suspension was not properly redesigned for the larger and heavier cone, therefore making them sloppier. A properly designed driver (which means, basically, either a JL or an Elemental) has the suspension reconfigured for each size of the sub, so any given JL or Elemental in the properly sized box will sound good. 

Elemental's reputation was built on boutique sound quality subs that also happened to get loud.. and they are one of the only companies that still make an 18" sub, so they have no problem standing behind it. Also, food for thought, a lot of high end home audio subs are 15" or larger and still sound tight and punchy  

This is mostly an issue of having a properly designed sub and box. eD sells boxes pre-built for their sub's exact requirements as well, so you would know you are getting the right box.

As far as the crossover goes, generally you should keep it to 80hz. As you go above 80, the sub bass becomes "localized" which is when you can really tell that your sub is in your trunk. This is also where a lot of nuanced detail goes into the bass and guitars, which a lot of subs will have trouble with, especially if you have a bass boost or loudness boost or whatever on your head unit. Keeping the crossover lower will make your sub more transparent and just let it fill out the bottom end naturally. If you want a lot of impact to kick drums, you would do better by getting a good set of 6.5" component speakers and installing them well.


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## Bobo

sakeido, has ED gotten over their designs flaws? They used to have issues with A and I think O series drivers. I always wanted to try them, but breakage was a concern, at least several years ago.

Yeah the "big sub won't sound punchy" deal is a bad generalization. As others have pointed out, the design of the sub, the enclosure, power put to it, and the environment it's in make the sub sound the way it sounds. I had a friend with two 10's in a huge box that people swore were 15's or 18's since it was very deep, muddy bass.

This stuff can go on and on and on and get confusing if you really want to try and learn a lot. I'd try finding more like minded people by you who may have setups you'd like. It can be hit and miss in my experience with stereo shops, but never hurts to ask. 

Best sub I've heard for my type of music (metal) was a 15" Resonant Engineering XXX. Heard some Alpine Type R's in another metalhead's car that sounded great. Can say the same for a JL W7. I want to avoid bad generalizations (this could be taken as one), but usually smaller sealed boxes sound tighter....but the sub going in the box really needs to be the first consideration before deciding box size (how much space you got?).

Whatever sub you get, I'd play around with the crossover. I currently have a single 15" in my car x-ed over at 100hz I think. Kinda high, and audiophiles will shune you (don't give a fuck), but go with what sounds best to you. Ideally you'd probably want strong mid-bass, but you really need the speakers that can handle that as well (most people don't have that). So you may want to look at your mids too. Oh, is price much of a concern?


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## sakeido

As far as I know they did.. the nomex flat cones they used were gimmicky, and while they were unique those were the ones people apparently had bad luck with when you really started to push them. Now they use a more traditional cone, and their warranty rules, so even if it does break, no big deal  FWIW though my flat cone K lasted for two years of heavy use and I had no problems with it. 

The Resonant XXX was a sub I always wanted but could never afford.. that and an Image Dynamics IDMAX


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## Stealthdjentstic

This thread reminds of how some people always turn the bass up to 11 on their car stereo's


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## MikeH

"10 Kicker Comp subs with a Kicker 300X1 amp. 'Nuff said.


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## sakeido

Stealthtastic said:


> This thread reminds of how some people always turn the bass up to 11 on their car stereo's



I have mine at -1


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## Bobo

sakeido said:


> I have mine at -1



Mine's usually between -2 and -4. Depends on the cd though. Some cd's have too much subbass for me, others too little.

And that Idmax does seem like a great musical sub from what many car audio forumites say  But I think it's hard to find kinda like the RE's (little or no store dealers).


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## zimbloth

I use an M-Audio SBX sub which crossovers with my M-Audio monitors. It's an absolutely joy for playback OR mixing. Could not be happier 

EDIT: Oh, we're talking about cars? No idea, the built in sound in my Toyota does the job for now


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