# Muslims call for teacher who named a bear mohammed to be excecuted by firing squad.



## Karl Hungus (Nov 30, 2007)

BBC NEWS | Africa | Shoot UK teacher, say protesters



> Thousands of people have marched in the Sudanese capital Khartoum to call for UK teacher Gillian Gibbons to be shot.



You know, I can only think one thing of people who would call for the death of another human being over such an absolutely ridiculous reason; pure scum. It's shameful to think that human beings are still so backwards.  

I think Star Trek had it right, where the federation can have no contact with another civilisation untill they've reached a certain level of development.


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## distressed_romeo (Nov 30, 2007)

Certain parts of the world don't seem to have advanced very far beyond the medieval period.


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## Karl Hungus (Nov 30, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Certain parts of the world don't seem to have advanced very far beyond the medieval period.



Indeed, and it's really sad to see this kind of extremist lunacy, because it seriously reflects badly on all Muslims. I'm sure there's loads of people out there in the Muslim world who read about this kind of carry on and just shake their heads in embarressment. 

I know any time I see an Irishman say something like "Yarr! Up the IRA!" or some shit, I just feel embarressed, and think to myself "Way to set us back 30 years..." 

It only takes a small amount of nutcases.


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## BigM555 (Nov 30, 2007)

Capital F
Capital U
Capital C
Capital K
Apostrophe N

RETARDED!



The Toronto Star said:


> "She said that she never wanted to insult Islam" by letting the children name the stuffed toy Muhammad, *a common name among Muslim men*, the lawyer said, speaking outside the courtroom. Media were barred from the chamber.



So how is it all right to name your child after the prophet but a white woman lets those same f'ing children name a class teddy bear by that name and she's the f'ing infidel? 

Every one of these people needs a biatch slap!


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## distressed_romeo (Nov 30, 2007)

In this case it's sadly more than an isolated minority of zealots...


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## distressed_romeo (Nov 30, 2007)

BigM555 said:


> So how is it all right to name your child after the prophet but a white woman lets those same f'ing children name a class teddy bear by that name and she's the f'ing infidel?



 That was my first response upon hearing this story...

I said in the other thread on this, it sounds like the original person who made the complaint (a secretary at the school in the last report I read) resented having a white woman in the school and just wanted an excuse to get her into trouble.


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## Karl Hungus (Nov 30, 2007)

I'd say it's a case of these idiots simply looking for an excuse to get outraged.


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## Nick (Nov 30, 2007)

yeah this was posted in the other thread also.

Its racism, plain and simple. Any excuse to try and stick it to the white western Europeans for 'oppressing' their religion.


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## playstopause (Nov 30, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Certain parts of the world don't seem to have advanced very far beyond the medieval period.



Point. That's a proof of it.
Some of these radicals should received a dose of their own fuckin' medecine... Just to see how they'll react.
This is goin' WAY too far.


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## oompa (Nov 30, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Certain parts of the world don't seem to have advanced very far beyond the medieval period.



 thats an important point (it always is when talking about religion). what is considered offensive is always made up by social laws and there is no point in comparing them to others (ours) but penalties on the other hand is, and i wished everyone would advance past punishing people physically (incl. death penalty). i'd have no problem with a law in muslim countries that you can't offend/missuse muhammed's name or draw his picture etc - if the penalty would be a fine the size of a parking ticket. 

this case here is a cultural miss-understanding, i bet the teacher had a teddybear and decided to go ahead and call it a common name for the sake of simplicity, it just happened to be a crime. you could expect the judges to just go "well.. stupid european, give her a fine and lets move on" but i guess that they, sadly, couldn't see past the fact that she wasn't aware of the rule and didnt really mean to offend anyone. 

the difference in naming a child muhammed and a teddybear is that naming your child muhammed is honoring him (so it says in the quoran), naming a teddybear muhammed is to "insult" (i cant remember the english word.. something close to "downvalue") him.


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## Shaman (Nov 30, 2007)

Muslims are really turning out to be a serious pain in the ass for European countries, since there are millions of muslim immigrants in European countries.

Even here in Finland, they do nothing to try and adapt to the culture, but they just try and force their culture to the countries they invade... whoops I mean immigrate to.

And the majority of European countries are afraid to do anything, because it is very easy to get labeled as a racist. 

It makes me sick, that it seems that a lot of them have no respect for law or the moral values that are embraced in the country that they live in. And no one can say anything about it since it is their culture, and different cultures are valuable.

Bullshit I say, a monkey culture like that has no place on the 21st century.

Whoops, I think I got carried away  And no, I am not a racist or a rightwing supporter, I am just pissed off about the situtation here in Europe.


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## distressed_romeo (Nov 30, 2007)

oompa said:


> thats an important point (it always is when talking about religion). what is considered offensive is always made up by social laws and there is no point in comparing them to others (ours) but penalties on the other hand is, and i wished everyone would advance past punishing people physically (incl. death penalty). i'd have no problem with a law in muslim countries that you can't offend/missuse muhammed's name or draw his picture etc - if the penalty would be a fine the size of a parking ticket.
> 
> this case here is a cultural miss-understanding, i bet the teacher had a teddybear and decided to go ahead and call it a common name for the sake of simplicity, it just happened to be a crime. you could expect the judges to just go "well.. stupid european, give her a fine and lets move on" but i guess that they, sadly, couldn't see past the fact that she wasn't aware of the rule and didnt really mean to offend anyone.
> 
> the difference in naming a child muhammed and a teddybear is that naming your child muhammed is honoring him (so it says in the quoran), naming a teddybear muhammed is to "insult" (i cant remember the english word.. something close to "downvalue") him.



The thing is, it wasn't her who named the bear, it was the children in her class who decided upon it (something they've all come forward and said).


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## Nick (Nov 30, 2007)

indeed she actually wanted to call the bear 'ferris' i believe.

the kids in the class all said that they wanted to call it muhammad


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## distressed_romeo (Nov 30, 2007)

Shaman said:


> Muslims are really turning out to be a serious pain in the ass for European countries, since there are millions of muslim immigrants in European countries.
> 
> Even here in Finland, they do nothing to try and adapt to the culture, but they just try and force their culture to the countries they invade... whoops I mean immigrate to.
> 
> ...



It's a problem in the UK as well, but I think people are losing patience with it and aren't willing to allow certain sections of the Muslim community to simultaneously insult the country they've moved to at ever opportunity, and then moan about how oppressed they are and refusing to acknowledge the problems with extremism in their community.
I firmly believe respect has to work two ways if it's to mean anything. What we've had for way too long is one set of standards for one part of the populace, and a totally different set for another.

Actually, one good thing that came out of this is that Muslim leaders in the UK seem to have unequivically condemned what's happenned rather than using it as an excuse to whine about how westerners don't understand/respect Islamic culture...


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## oompa (Nov 30, 2007)

Nick said:


> indeed she actually wanted to call the bear 'ferris' i believe.
> 
> the kids in the class all said that they wanted to call it muhammad



oh sry, different sources (read it on swedish news yesterday)


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## Nick (Nov 30, 2007)

its actually the second generation muslims in the uk that cause the problems. The older generation that came to the uk are hard workers who were glad to be here who i have serious respect for because those guys are the ones you see working 18hrs a day etc. Unfortunatley the fruits of their labour have turned their kids (my age group) into spoiled idiots who expect something for nothing and are the ones who generally like to play the 'im being opressed' card here in the uk.

im not racist im just telling it like i see it.


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## Metal Ken (Nov 30, 2007)

You know, its funny.. the muslims organizations on campus are doing a thing about stereotypes... and they wonder why islam gets such a bad rap...


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## Nick (Nov 30, 2007)

to be honest this sort of shit is going to lead to something VERY bad happening in the end up. Public opinion of islam is horrendous and there is going to be a point where people snap.

i have no problem with the religion existing but it seems to promote its followers to have a massive chip on their shoulder about everything.


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## BigM555 (Nov 30, 2007)

Personally I think Penn & Teller nailed in on their episode of BS about campus diversity.



Penn said:


> We're all offended, all the time, and we don't have a fucking right *not* to be offended! A free country is a marketplace of ideas, and college should be more free, not less.



People need to get the F over themselves and stop believing that they have some kind of inherent right to NOT be offended by anyone. If I offend you, you have the right to ignore me or perhaps bar me from your own personal domicile. THAT'S IT!!

No reparations, no marches, no bs statements of oppression. You just ignore me. You are the only one that can control how you will react. I can't control what you might be offended by and shouldn't be obligated to know!

If I've offended you, then tell me. I will make the choice of whether or not to change my future actions. But don't try to force it. 

This kind of crap drives me nuts.


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## noodles (Nov 30, 2007)

Step 1: Find alternative energy source
Step 2: Sever all ties with the middle east

Seems simple enough to me.


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## BigM555 (Nov 30, 2007)

I agree that needs to be done Noodles.

But when it comes to these kinds of issues it goes so much deeper. A shift away from fossil fuels will not change this perception that so many people have that if *their* ideals have been compromised they are some how being *oppressed.*


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## noodles (Nov 30, 2007)

You missed my point. We need to move away from oil so we can completely write off the middle east. Pull out all our people, close down all the military bases, close all the embassies, completely sever diplomatic ties, and cut off all trade. "You hate the west so much? OK, now you're on your own."

I wonder what all those rich oil shieks would do if they suddenly lost over half of their income.


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## Drew (Nov 30, 2007)

noodles said:


> Step 1: Find alternative energy source
> Step 2: Sever all ties with the middle east
> 
> Seems simple enough to me.




Well, yeah. That's because, you know, you have a _brain_.


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## noodles (Nov 30, 2007)

Drew said:


> Well, yeah. That's because, you know, you have a _brain_.



Oh, the people running our government have a brain. It is what they use when thinking about their pocket books.


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## D-EJ915 (Nov 30, 2007)

Funny thing is, most of our oil doesn't come from the middle east. Sudan also has other serious issues, like, not having control over groups killing people for no reason other than being different.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Nov 30, 2007)

yep, its a bunch of barbarians trying to push their idiotic views on us like gengis kaan or napolian


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## noodles (Nov 30, 2007)

D-EJ915 said:


> Funny thing is, most of our oil doesn't come from the middle east. Sudan also has other serious issues, like, not having control over groups killing people for no reason other than being different.



Irrelevant. We only have one reason at all to be interested in the middle east, and that reason is oil, no matter what percentage of the oil we use comes from the region.


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## BigM555 (Nov 30, 2007)

noodles said:


> You missed my point. We need to move away from oil so we can completely write off the middle east. Pull out all our people, close down all the military bases, close all the embassies, completely sever diplomatic ties, and cut off all trade. "You hate the west so much? OK, now you're on your own."
> 
> I wonder what all those rich oil shieks would do if they suddenly lost over half of their income.



It's a good start but even if the West were to find alternatives to oil I don't think it would impact those sheiks for a VERY long time. The East would simply pick up where we left off. 

If it weren't the East it would be someone else. As long as they have the resource and it's cheaper that the alternatives (which so far it seems the alternatives aren't going to be any cheaper) someone will want it and we can't control everything.

But my point was that the problem of intolerance is not unique to the Middle East. We see it everywhere! Even if I were to focus only on the topic de jour, I don't believe that removing the $$$ from the Middle East would alter the intolerance of Muslims abroad.


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## zimbloth (Nov 30, 2007)

Fuck all those people.


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## noodles (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm not that concerned with altering their perceptions. I'm interested in not having to deal with the headache of the middle east anymore. The Muslims in my country are controlled by our laws, and the opinions of Muslims outside my country doesn't mean shit to me.

In the great scheme of things, these fanatics are in no real position to harm us. Sure, 9/11 was horrible, but when put in the proper perspective, it was like a rotten little kid breaking the nose of a sleeping adult. It is not going to accomplish their goals of wiping the infedels from the planet, because we are obviously still here. The number of people killed is but a small fraction of our total population. In no way did it damage our ability to fight back, effect moral, or disuade us from our involvement in foreign affairs. We're certainly weren't sitting here trembling before the face of the all power Muslim god.

Their hatred of us predominantly stems from our involvement in a region of the world that we have no business being in. Abandoning the middle east would remove their reasons for hating us. Sure, you'll still have the fanatics that will go right on hating us and wanting to cause us harm, but you will have removed the motivation for the common man. After a couple of generations, we'll be about as relevant to them as Mexico, just another country on the other side of a big ocean. It is hard for the fanatic to stir up rage against the infedel when the infedel is nowhere to be found.


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## Jason (Nov 30, 2007)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/politics-current-events/42204-people-there-religon.html

Come on mods get on it


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## smueske (Nov 30, 2007)

This whole thing saddens me from top to bottom. What the hell is the world coming to if you want to kill someone over the name of a fucking teddy bear?

Extreme views in any religion -- including Christianity -- do nothing but promote violence and exclusion, IMO.


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## distressed_romeo (Nov 30, 2007)

You know, I do wonder what the next religion to declare war against the rest of the planet will be in a few hundred years...

Can you imagine Scientologists deciding to annihilate the non-believers?


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 30, 2007)

I wouldn't worry too much about Scientologists doing anything. Anyone dumb enough to believe what they believe is NOT a threat. I mean honestly, I find most religion silly (I don't mean to offend any religious folks here, that's just how I feel) but honestly, take 5 minutes to listen to the basis of their religion, and you'll see what I mean. I hate to say shit like that because it makes me seem really prejudiced against a religion, but Scientology is a joke created by a science fiction writer.


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## distressed_romeo (Nov 30, 2007)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about Scientologists doing anything. Anyone dumb enough to believe what they believe is NOT a threat. I mean honestly, I find most religion silly (I don't mean to offend any religious folks here, that's just how I feel) but honestly, take 5 minutes to listen to the basis of their religion, and you'll see what I mean. I hate to say shit like that because it makes me seem really prejudiced against a religion, but Scientology is a joke created by a science fiction writer.



...And yet can you imagine what the initial reaction to the prophets of most major religions (mentioning no-one specific  ) must have been thousands of years ago...

'Oh, that guy's just been out in the sun too long. Everyone will have forgotten about him in a couple of weeks...'

Never underestimate humankind's potential for delusion and gullibility...


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## noodles (Nov 30, 2007)

Jason said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/politics-current-events/42204-people-there-religon.html
> 
> Come on mods get on it



Both threads are so long now that they would have to be merged. Interesting discussion is occuring along separate paths in both threads, so I have just let it go.


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## noodles (Nov 30, 2007)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about Scientologists doing anything. Anyone dumb enough to believe what they believe is NOT a threat. I mean honestly, I find most religion silly (I don't mean to offend any religious folks here, that's just how I feel) but honestly, take 5 minutes to listen to the basis of their religion, and you'll see what I mean. I hate to say shit like that because it makes me seem really prejudiced against a religion, but Scientology is a joke created by a science fiction writer.



I have always maintained that if a new idea that was as well though out as the major religions of today was presented to just about anyone with half a brain, they'd laugh in the face of the presenter. There are far too many holes and a stunning lack of factual basis for the ideas presented by Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.

People follow religion because they are indoctranated into it at an early age. Why do you think all three religons stress the importance of the family unit and worship with your children? If you kept a child completely isolated from religion until they were an adult, and then tried to introduce them to the concept, they would laugh at you as if you told them Santa Claus was real.

Personal belief/faith is one thing, since it involved introspeciton and coming to terms with your palce in the world. Organized religion is nothing more than overgrown cults that are used by the powerful to control other people. I don't believe for one minute that half of these extremist Muslim clerics actually believe what is spewing from their mouths.

I don't rely on ancient medical science. When I get sick, I go to a doctor who graduated from medical school. I don't rely on the ancient view of the celestial bodies, since I know that the earth is round and revolves around the sun. Why should I follow ancient religious teaching, written by people with a small fraction of our knowledge of the natural world? I find the three major monotheistic religions of our day as laughable as a contemparary follower of said religions would find his neighbor if he found out he was sacrificing bulls to apollo to get the sun to rise in the morning.


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## Jason (Nov 30, 2007)

noodles said:


> Both threads are so long now that they would have to be merged. Interesting discussion is occuring along separate paths in both threads, so I have just let it go.



 I know was just busting balls


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## oompa (Nov 30, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> You know, I do wonder what the next religion to declare war against the rest of the planet will be in a few hundred years...
> 
> Can you imagine Scientologists deciding to annihilate the non-believers?



the types of religions that are popping up most frequently are introvert religions, meaning they focus on yourself and not others (like buddhism or hinduism), many of them are bordering to plain philosophy. yet, the single most growing religion is islam.

the chances of an introvert religion starting wars isnt very likely since they in general dont bother that much with others, while extrovert ones has the benefit of calling other religions blasphemy etc. these are mainly of course christianity, judaism and islam. denominations within these three might be even better candidates for declaring war on the world.


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## InTheRavensName (Nov 30, 2007)

I think she asked for it when she went to work in that shithole...

just my view, and I don't condone the response, but honestly I think people who go to work out in these type of countries take their life in their hands...


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## distressed_romeo (Nov 30, 2007)

InTheRavensName said:


> I think she asked for it when she went to work in that shithole...
> 
> just my view, and I don't condone the response, but honestly I think people who go to work out in these type of countries take their life in their hands...



I was thinking that when I heard about this as well. It's horrible what's happenned to her, but not exactly suprising.


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## noodles (Nov 30, 2007)

+2 I would never want to travel to that portion of the world for any reason. It's not like I haven't been offered nearly $200k to contract in Iraq. Money just isn't worth it.


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## TotallyBr00tal (Nov 30, 2007)

That whole part of the world is just fucked! I think SOD said it the best with the song Fuck the Middle East!


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## Stitch (Nov 30, 2007)

You can hardly point the finger. Your country has gone to shit too. As has mine with its frankly scary CCTV coverage system...

I'd look at your own culture before you pointing the finger and making rash generalisations. Just because others are doesn't mean you should.


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## TotallyBr00tal (Nov 30, 2007)

Stitch said:


> You can hardly point the finger. Your country has gone to shit too. As has mine with its frankly scary CCTV coverage system...
> 
> I'd look at your own culture before you pointing the finger and making rash generalisations. Just because others are doesn't mean you should.



Yeah well my culture doesn't threaten to cut peoples heads off cause they named an animal muhammed.


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## Stitch (Nov 30, 2007)

'Your' culture did a lot of other inexcusable things though. And before you ask, go and find some yourself, because I think you'd gain more finding out about them yourself than others telling you.


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## TotallyBr00tal (Nov 30, 2007)

Stitch said:


> 'Your' culture did a lot of other inexcusable things though. And before you ask, go and find some yourself, because I think you'd gain more finding out about them yourself than others telling you.



Yeah I know all about this, I just want to hear it from you cause I think you really can't come up with one good example.


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## Stitch (Nov 30, 2007)

What's the point? You're too naive or stupid to look for it on your own.


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## Lucky Seven (Nov 30, 2007)

Karl Hungus said:


> I think Star Trek had it right, where the federation can have no contact with another civilisation untill they've reached a certain level of development.



You know, I've seen every episode of ST:TNG at least twice, and I couldn't agree more. If every civilized country just stayed away from these undeveloped civilizations, the world would be in much better shape. The US needs a Prime Directive.



Stitch said:


> You can hardly point the finger. Your country has gone to shit too.



If our country is "shit", what does that make the Middle East? That's not a very fair comparison in my opinion.


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## Jongpil Yun (Nov 30, 2007)

Lucky Seven said:


> The US needs a Prime Directive.



+1. Part of it should be that we refuse to act on equal terms with a fascist theocracy, or a people who choose to elect one.

I actually have pretty high hopes for places like Dubai though. That kind of ultra-competitive, ultra-capitalist environment will sooner or later lead to democracy, IMO. At least, I hope so. After looking at Hong Kong, I'm not so sure.


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## Jason (Nov 30, 2007)

[action=Jason]meant to give totallybr00talz idiot neg rep but instead did positive[/action]


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## JJ Rodriguez (Nov 30, 2007)

I got you covered  But your positive is worth more than my neg.


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## Rick (Nov 30, 2007)

noodles said:


> You missed my point. We need to move away from oil so we can completely write off the middle east. Pull out all our people, close down all the military bases, close all the embassies, completely sever diplomatic ties, and cut off all trade. "You hate the west so much? OK, now you're on your own."
> 
> I wonder what all those rich oil shieks would do if they suddenly lost over half of their income.



I'd be okay with that.


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## Lucky Seven (Nov 30, 2007)

Rick said:


> I'd be okay with that.



Ditto, heh, I had this conversation with someone earlier today.


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## noodles (Dec 1, 2007)

Totallybr00talz and Stich, you guys need to knock it off.


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## Clydefrog (Dec 1, 2007)

That would probably REALLY make them mad.


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## The Dark Wolf (Dec 1, 2007)

THAT, my friend, is awesome.


Fuck those idiots and their crazy backwards thinking. Seriously... see some of the shit these cocksuckers post on the net, and your whole opinion of them will change.


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## BigM555 (Dec 1, 2007)

Clydefrog said:


> That would probably REALLY make them mad.



+ rep for that!


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## 7 Dying Trees (Dec 1, 2007)

noodles said:


> Irrelevant. We only have one reason at all to be interested in the middle east, and that reason is oil, no matter what percentage of the oil we use comes from the region.


Ummm... Sudan is in Africa...


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## Nerina (Dec 1, 2007)

Clydefrog said:


> That would probably REALLY make them mad.



LMAO!!!! Thats great. 

I understand that their culture is not the same as ours, and I know that we should try and appreaciate the differences, BUT, how do you deal with people who have such a skewed sense of 'justice' ? How is it that those people can pull themselves from whatever they were doing with their day, to go and march and scream and yell that she must be killed for naming a bear? Which the kids wanted to do in the first place, obviously she's not going to fully understand their religion, so she made a 'mistake', now, what I was wondering was, if they're willing to kill her for that nonsense, and they think that's 'justice', why dont they kill all the kids who 'knew better' ? Oh, but that would be unfair right? Absolutely insane.....



distressed_romeo said:


> That was my first response upon hearing this story...
> 
> I said in the other thread on this, it sounds like the original person who made the complaint (a secretary at the school in the last report I read) resented having a white woman in the school and just wanted an excuse to get her into trouble.



Yeah, could be a set up.......I know they're kids but who knows? Crazy is crazy......


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## InTheRavensName (Dec 1, 2007)

noodles said:


> Totallybr00talz and Stich, you guys need to knock it off.



between your avatar and fatherly guidence, you remind me a lot of Nathan...

"hey don't run it's wet...I thought we agreed NO CLOWNS"

back on topic...yeah, cut their income off, would be interesting to see how long the region survivied


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## 999dead666 (Dec 1, 2007)

i was reading the whole thread,its very offensive in general, specially against muslims. the title of the thread is wrong,because some of the sudanees made big shit of the whole matter,just to use it against the british goverment which is already pushing on the sudans about the Darfour crisis.so its just political matter used by both parties.now i would like to tell you in the arabic news and articles that followed this incident, i cant remember any that supported the trial.actually all of them said its scandal,its stupid,and its pure politics just to use it against britain the same way libya used the bulgarian nurses case to get what it wanted from the west,so if bunch of pro sudanee regime made fuzz over their own stupidity, it shouldnt let you guys insult over bilion muslims around the world,cos it was pure stupidity and the woman is innocent


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## Metal Ken (Dec 1, 2007)

Way to make presumptions. We're not insulting a "Billion muslims across the earth", we're insulting the dumbass lunatics who would riot in the streets to kill a fucking school teacher over a stupid stuffed bear's name.


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## 999dead666 (Dec 1, 2007)

Metal Ken said:


> Way to make presumptions. We're not insulting a "Billion muslims across the earth", we're insulting the dumbass lunatics who would riot in the streets to kill a fucking school teacher over a stupid stuffed bear's name.



and im the first in the line with you man, but come on, posting pig toy as prophet mohammed and stuff,and the the other previouse comments,like every one knows sudan or saudia or iran,people got no freedom of speech, even the lawyer of the victim who got raped in saudia is being charged now!!


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## BigM555 (Dec 1, 2007)

I'm glad that you concur that the woman was/is innocent but perhaps you've misinterpreted the scope of the displeasure raised in this thread.
I can't speak for everyone but my specific concern lies only with those radicals that have called for her head. That hardly extends to a billion muslims around the world.
What I fail to understand, and perhaps it is due to my non-denomination, is why so many feel the need to defend the religion against comments made toward these so called radicals.
Rather than trying to convince us that OUR comments are misdirected and insulting, perhaps the effort would be better spent denouncing those that pose a REAL threat to the religion. Namely those radicals.


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## BigM555 (Dec 1, 2007)

Haha, too slow. Ken beat me to it. though not nearly as tactfully. 
I can understand that the stuffed pig may indeed be offensive but that's kind of the point.

Everyone needs to understand that the only person that can control what you are offended by is YOU,

Indeed Christians would be offended if Jesus were depicted diddling little boys too but they wouldn't start calling for someones head. THAT seems to be the big cultural divide. Being able to laugh at yourself (or your religion for that matter) should not be a sin.

Edit: Sorry this post was broken in two. Damn PDA died in the middle of writing it.


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## 999dead666 (Dec 1, 2007)

BigM555 said:


> I'm glad that you concur that the woman was/is innocent but perhaps you've misinterpreted the scope of the displeasure raised in this thread.
> I can't speak for everyone but my specific concern lies only with those radicals that have called for her head. That hardly extends to a billion muslims around the world.
> What I fail to understand, and perhaps it is due to my non-denomination, is why so many feel the need to defend the religion against comments made toward these so called radicals.
> Rather than trying to convince us that OUR comments are misdirected and insulting, perhaps the effort would be better spent denouncing those that pose a REAL threat to the religion. Namely those radicals.


i had many chances to talk with "radical muslims,jews,christians" and i found out that,what ever you try to tell them , explain or try to convince them, its just wont work,they are blinded by hatred to the other person, its just waste of time and nerves. the best way is to ignore them,and make sure they are out of the main stream so they wont get it dirty. putting them under the spot light is what they really want.


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## D-EJ915 (Dec 1, 2007)

If it's offensive, good, maybe they'll do something about it then.


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## 999dead666 (Dec 1, 2007)

so whats the big deal or the point to get the others offended ? its more like childish act than solving a problem


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## Metal Ken (Dec 1, 2007)

D-EJ915 said:


> If it's offensive, good, maybe they'll do something about it then.



Thats exactly what happened to the lady in the article at the beginning of this thread.


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## Clydefrog (Dec 1, 2007)

Can you imagine how they're going to explain this to the children?

Or are they not going to explain it at all?

Maybe they'll give them the Poochie treatment.






"My planet is dying. I must go." (Poochie died on his way back to his planet).

Sheesh.


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## Jongpil Yun (Dec 2, 2007)

999dead666 said:


> i was reading the whole thread,its very offensive in general, specially against muslims.



I could give a shit. I will offend whoever the fuck I want to, whenever I want to. Extremists are just begging for it. I think Islam is stupid anyways, and I have no qualms about saying so.


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## 999dead666 (Dec 2, 2007)

Jongpil Yun said:


> I could give a shit. I will offend whoever the fuck I want to, whenever I want to. Extremists are just begging for it. I think Islam is stupid anyways, and I have no qualms about saying so.


wow, i didnt know that RAMBO is sevenstring.org member  
cant you understand that all extremists are fucked up people and they dont belong to any religion?? their only religion is who is not like me doent deserve to live?? and the best way is to ignore them instead of just going in games with them running in circles!!


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## The Dark Wolf (Dec 2, 2007)

999dead666 said:


> wow, i didnt know that RAMBO is sevenstring.org member



HA HA HA!  That's fucking priceless.


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## Nerina (Dec 2, 2007)

LOL Rambo......

speaking of which, did you guys know they're making a new movie? Off point I know, but just thought I'd share


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## VforVendetta00 (Dec 2, 2007)

and THAT is why there has to be a separation between the church and state EVERYWHERE! religion as a whole is a cancer upon humanity, muslim, catholic, whatever, its all crap, education and common civil values are what should keep society working not some fear of an all mighty, unseen and make believe entity.


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## Jongpil Yun (Dec 2, 2007)

999dead666 said:


> cant you understand that all extremists are fucked up people and they dont belong to any religion?? their only religion is who is not like me doent deserve to live?? and the best way is to ignore them instead of just going in games with them running in circles!!



Uh, no. There are extremist muslims, extremist christians, extremist jews. The definition of "extremist" is someone who interprets their holy text as being literal, and acts upon it, so they declare jihad and stone adulterers. The idea that they don't belong to any religion except for violent conformism is just bullshit, because violent conformism is a part of islam, christianity, and judaism. Period.


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 3, 2007)

999dead666 said:


> i was reading the whole thread,its very offensive in general, specially against muslims. the title of the thread is wrong,because some of the sudanees made big shit of the whole matter,just to use it against the british goverment which is already pushing on the sudans about the Darfour crisis.so its just political matter used by both parties.now i would like to tell you in the arabic news and articles that followed this incident, i cant remember any that supported the trial.actually all of them said its scandal,its stupid,and its pure politics just to use it against britain the same way libya used the bulgarian nurses case to get what it wanted from the west,so if bunch of pro sudanee regime made fuzz over their own stupidity, it shouldnt let you guys insult over bilion muslims around the world,cos it was pure stupidity and the woman is innocent



It's already been brought up, either in this thread or the other one discussing this story, that there's a huge distinction between the rational Muslims, who've made it abundantly clear that they feel this case is ridiculous, and the zealots who're out baying for this woman's blood and want to throw the 'islamophobia' card around over every perceived insult or slight.
It's also been made clear by various members of the boards that they feel the same way about religious extremism in any form is a serious issue. If it were Christian zealots doing this over a perceived insult to Jesus, or Scientlogists trying it over someone making fun of L. Ron Hubbard, you'd see exactly the same set of responses.
Regarding the picture; I would have thought it was way too ridiculous to offend anyone, but as this story shows, some people are determined to be offended by anything...


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## Prometheus (Dec 3, 2007)

In my experience, Muslims are a strange lot. They've got the whole get-'em-while-they're-young approach down to an art. A woman that works with me is Muslim. Born in South Africa, raised here, never been anywhere else. She's highly intelligent, very friendly, very funny, she is pretty cool by pretty anybody's standards. But, and I mean this, she scares me sometimes. You know about the news a while back where a woman was raped in Saudi, and SHE was sentenced to 200 lashes for the crime of not having a male guardian with her? My colleague, despite some misgivings, actually admitted that because it was a judgment made by Muslim men who have the authority, she was in favour of it. She didn't agree with it, really, but that wasn't the point - apparently, for a Muslim, religion supersedes EVERYTHING else. You're first a Muslim, then a South African, or an American, or whatever.

It blew my MIND!

Giving up common sense for the supposedly greater cause, slavishly obeying a bunch of people you've never met, that live in a country half a world away. And it's done willingly. Incredible.

And don't think I'm targeting Muslims with this, I contend that all religions do this. Which is why I'm not religious. Or, one of the reasons, anyway.


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## Nick (Dec 3, 2007)

im going to say that that mindset is far more prevelant with the islamic faith.

Christians will say quite happily that they are british or american but all to often i see muslims here who will say that theyr alligance lies with whatever country their grandparents or whoever from their family origionally came here came from. Even though they are born and raised in this country.

Its not a good state of affairs.



distressed_romeo said:


> It's already been brought up, either in this thread or the other one discussing this story, that there's a huge distinction between the rational Muslims, who've made it abundantly clear that they feel this case is ridiculous, and the zealots who're out baying for this woman's blood and want to throw the 'islamophobia' card around over every perceived insult or slight.
> It's also been made clear by various members of the boards that they feel the same way about religious extremism in any form is a serious issue. If it were Christian zealots doing this over a perceived insult to Jesus, or Scientlogists trying it over someone making fun of L. Ron Hubbard, you'd see exactly the same set of responses.
> Regarding the picture; I would have thought it was way too ridiculous to offend anyone, but as this story shows, some people are determined to be offended by anything...



Its funny that the people responsible for creating 'Islamophobia' are the people who are so quick to complain about it.

All they are doing is making the world hate their religion and see them as troublemakers with massive chips on their shoulders about everything.


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## Jarrett (Dec 3, 2007)

Sudan's President Omar al-Bashir pardoned her and she has been released.

BBC NEWS | UK | Teddy row teacher to be released

It's interesting that all of the comments that I heard from Britsh Muslims were basically saying that the whole thing was just a cultural misunderstanding and a huge over reaction on the part of Sudan.


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## The Dark Wolf (Dec 3, 2007)

I agree with you Nick, and think you said it very well. 

The woman (a UK citizen, and teacher, BTW) was pardoned and is to be released. A least a shred of common sense prevails.

Sudan pardons Briton in teddy row - CNN.com


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## Nick (Dec 3, 2007)

thanks,

Im happy to hear shes out, this has pissed me off far more than any other current event in the last few years.


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## The Dark Wolf (Dec 3, 2007)

Add to it the whole ordeal with the young Saudi woman who was raped and now faces 200 lashes AND jail time, and I'm right there with you.


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 3, 2007)

Jarrett said:


> Sudan's President Omar al-Bashir pardoned her and she has been released.
> 
> BBC NEWS | UK | Teddy row teacher to be released
> 
> It's interesting that all of the comments that I heard from Britsh Muslims were basically saying that the whole thing was just a cultural misunderstanding and a huge over reaction on the part of Sudan.


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 3, 2007)

Prometheus said:


> In my experience, Muslims are a strange lot. They've got the whole get-'em-while-they're-young approach down to an art. A woman that works with me is Muslim. Born in South Africa, raised here, never been anywhere else. She's highly intelligent, very friendly, very funny, she is pretty cool by pretty anybody's standards. But, and I mean this, she scares me sometimes. You know about the news a while back where a woman was raped in Saudi, and SHE was sentenced to 200 lashes for the crime of not having a male guardian with her? My colleague, despite some misgivings, actually admitted that because it was a judgment made by Muslim men who have the authority, she was in favour of it. She didn't agree with it, really, but that wasn't the point - apparently, for a Muslim, religion supersedes EVERYTHING else. You're first a Muslim, then a South African, or an American, or whatever.
> 
> It blew my MIND!
> 
> ...



That's one of the saddest things I've ever heard...


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 3, 2007)

Nick said:


> im going to say that that mindset is far more prevelant with the islamic faith.
> 
> Christians will say quite happily that they are british or american but all to often i see muslims here who will say that theyr alligance lies with whatever country their grandparents or whoever from their family origionally came here came from. Even though they are born and raised in this country.
> 
> ...



Agree on all points. It's a wierd state of affairs.


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## 7StringofAblicK (Dec 4, 2007)

I'm going to name my next pet Muhammad, then I will call my local newspaper and tell them about it.


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## 7StringofAblicK (Dec 4, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> That's one of the saddest things I've ever heard...



+1

It just doesn't make sense


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## noodles (Dec 4, 2007)

Nick said:


> im going to say that that mindset is far more prevelant with the islamic faith.
> 
> Christians will say quite happily that they are british or american but all to often i see muslims here who will say that theyr alligance lies with whatever country their grandparents or whoever from their family origionally came here came from. Even though they are born and raised in this country.



 

When I was 20, my 18yo girlfriend broke up with me to get married. Yes, you read that right. Her parents arranged a marriage between her and a 32yo man from New York who she never met. She was born and raised in this country. She was very much the typical American teenager, but she refused to disobey her father.

When I was 26, I asked a Iranian woman in my building out. She was very interested in me, but refused. Her parents still lived in Iran, which meant her brother was in charge of her, and her brother refused to allow her to date white men. The fact that she a modern woman meant nothing, because she refused to go against the will of the man who "cared" for her "well being".

These were women who dressed American, were independent, went clubbing with their friends, and didn't really practice their faith. In the case of the second, she didn't even live with her brother. However, she would speak to him every day, and he would tell her exactly what he approved or disapproved of. The one time I actually met him, I told him to do his sister a favor and move the fuck back to Iran and take Allah with him, because we try to avoid enslaving women in America.


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## BigM555 (Dec 4, 2007)

noodles said:


> The one time I actually met him, I told him to do his sister a favor and move the fuck back to Iran and take Allah with him, because we try to avoid enslaving women in America.





So how'd that work out for ya? He's a pen pal now no doubt?


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## noodles (Dec 4, 2007)

He got really mad, and looked like he was getting ready to beat me senseless. I just reminded him that we're allowed to insult Allah in America, and retalliation is an assult charge that carries prison time. 

He told me something about staying away from his sister "or else", and I said that her delusions, and not his hollow threats, is the only thing preventing that from happening.


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## Rick (Dec 4, 2007)

noodles said:


> He got really mad, and looked like he was getting ready to beat me senseless. I just reminded him that we're allowed to insult Allah in America, and retalliation is an assult charge that carries prison time.
> 
> He told me something about staying away from his sister "or else", and I said that her delusions, and not his hollow threats, is the only thing preventing that from happening.



Wow, what a dick.


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## noodles (Dec 4, 2007)

I can't really blame him, since he was brought up that way. Religious indocrination is an ugly thing.


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 5, 2007)

As an addendum to this story, some Muslims in London have apparently had 'teddy bear' or similar insults scratched onto their cars...


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 5, 2007)

noodles said:


> I can't really blame him, since he was brought up that way. Religious indocrination is an ugly thing.



It doesn't make it any less disgusting. Apparently a lot of arranged marriages only succeed because of the insane amount of pressure from both families to stay together rather than because the couple are particularly happy.


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## Nick (Dec 5, 2007)

agree fully its a total joke that it still goes on.


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## Prometheus (Dec 5, 2007)

It's amazing the justifications you'll get if you give advocates of arranged marriages your opinion, namely, it's a practice that should've died out centuries ago. It's actually a fairly surreal experience, because you'll get the reasons why it's a good thing, and they _almost make sense_. Almost. 

It constantly amazes and saddens me just how powerful that kind of religious and cultural imprinting can be, and how often it's, quite frankly, tragic. For instance, there are many people in my country - men, amazingly enough - that, thanks to their tribal teachings, think they can cure AIDS by having sex with a virgin. So, they rape female babies, the reasoning being that a 6 month old is most likely still "pure". Some call this a mere lack of education. Fuck. I'm sorry, but this kind of behaviour and thinking, this *abhorrence*, stems from something else, something deeper, and I fear that no amount of education can ever fix it. 

Any religion/culture which places the male on a higher pedestal than the female - and correct me if I'm wrong here, but most of them do - needs to go. I have no time for anyone that, because he has a penis, thinks he is inherently better than a woman. I don't care if he's been raised that way, indoctrinated from birth to think that way, I couldn't care less. That whole way of thinking has no place in the modern world. 
And what REALLY freaks me out is when the woman of said religions/cultures actually AGREE with this attitude, and have all the reasons and justifications they've been taught. And, once again, when they tell you why they think this way, it _almost makes sense_. Almost.


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 5, 2007)

Prometheus said:


> It's amazing the justifications you'll get if you give advocates of arranged marriages your opinion, namely, it's a practice that should've died out centuries ago. It's actually a fairly surreal experience, because you'll get the reasons why it's a good thing, and they _almost make sense_. Almost.
> 
> It constantly amazes and saddens me just how powerful that kind of religious and cultural imprinting can be, and how often it's, quite frankly, tragic. For instance, there are many people in my country - men, amazingly enough - that, thanks to their tribal teachings, think they can cure AIDS by having sex with a virgin. So, they rape female babies, the reasoning being that a 6 month old is most likely still "pure". Some call this a mere lack of education. Fuck. I'm sorry, but this kind of behaviour and thinking, this *abhorrence*, stems from something else, something deeper, and I fear that no amount of education can ever fix it.
> 
> ...




Agree with everything here, although whenever I've heard people trying to justify cultural things like this, they usually can't come up with anything more than 'the [insert appropriate holy book] says...'. and act like that's justification enough.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Dec 5, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> It doesn't make it any less disgusting. Apparently a lot of arranged marriages only succeed because of the insane amount of pressure from both families to stay together rather than because the couple are particularly happy.



Bari given life sentence for wife's murder

All except that one. That was my friends land lord. When they found her body in the other part of his place (I guess it had been there a little while) he was a little freaked out obviously, so I went over so we could have a smoke and chill and shit so he could get away since he doesn't have a car and I had my Mom's a lot of the time at that point. I don't know if they were muslim, but I'm pretty sure that was an arranged marriage. I guess that guy doesn't take very good care of his "property".


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## Nick (Dec 5, 2007)

Prometheus said:


> and I fear that no amount of education can ever fix it.



I can think of a few things that would fix it.


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## Naren (Dec 5, 2007)

distressed_romeo said:


> Agree with everything here, although whenever I've heard people trying to justify cultural things like this, they usually can't come up with anything more than 'the [insert appropriate holy book] says...'. and act like that's justification enough.



I know exactly what Prometheus is talking about. I've had the same thing with people who are against mixed marriages (between a black and a white or between a Latino and a white or between an Asian and a white) and they explain it out in a really logical way, saying that you shouldn't do it because the child will be persecuted against or that the child will have no cultural identity and all this other bullshit. I've seen people convinced by this stuff before my eyes.

I once replied to someone like that, "So you're saying that you should promote racism because someone _might_ get hurt? You shouldn't break down the barriers between the races because someone might not approve? I'm not so concerned about what someone else thinks. If I seriously care about and love the girl I'm dating enough, I would want to marry her, regardless of her skin color."

It's just that their reasoning (as well as the ones Prometheus mentions) ignore so many other points of view and ignore so many facts and present their own view in a very convincing way that many people find hard to argue with. I think that's what he means by "Almost makes sense."


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## Prometheus (Dec 5, 2007)

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was talking about! It's like, you listen to them, and the reasons they have for the way they think, and they seem so earnest about it all, and it actually begins to sound like a totally sensible solution, right up until the point where you suddenly think, "Wait..... what?"

I mean, when you have an intelligent woman, who would never in a million years let YOU give her any shit whatsover, suddenly give you book and verse as to why Muslim men should be in charge, and not somehow see the massive problems inherent in her own argument, you know those Iman's did their job WELL.


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## Lozek (Dec 6, 2007)

Did anyone hear that they've sold the bear on E-bay for a large sum of money? It's true, apparently they've made a Prophet out of it


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## Zepp88 (Dec 6, 2007)

Bearhammed!!!


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## XEN (Dec 6, 2007)

Lozek said:


> Did anyone hear that they've sold the bear on E-bay for a large sum of money? It's true, apparently they've made a Prophet out of it


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## The Dark Wolf (Dec 6, 2007)

^ What he said.  How'd I miss that?


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 6, 2007)

Seriously?!!!!!


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## Prometheus (Dec 6, 2007)

....

I've been trying to think of something funnier than the whole bear being sold for a Prophet joke, but damn. That's too good. TOO GOOD!


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## Korbain (Dec 9, 2007)

and muslims wonder why every hates them. I know they're not all this extreme about things, but jesus when i saw this on the news i just this is the stupidest fucking thing i've ever seen/heard lol Death by firing squad because she called a bear mohammed


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