# Modern video games... what happened??



## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

I was going over my collection of playstation/ps2 games the other day, and i realised just how much more kickass the ol' PS1 games were than PS2... i mean, it had some of teh BEST games ever; Medievil 1, Spyro 1 & 2, Crash Bandicoot 1-3 (warped), Tekken 2 and 3, Tombi (Tomba in Europe), Gran Turismo 1, Metal Gear Solid, Ghost In The Shell, FF7-9... 

The games were longer, the cinematics better, the stories better, the characters more original, the games better balanced (humour with seriousness etc..), more fun, and just seemed better...

What the hell happened? Almost every single PS2 game i own, i finished in under 12 hours, the graphics got sloppy (for the system), and they just seem so incredibly _lazy_. I love the stories on a lot of them, and the characters etc.. (japanese design and so forth), but god damn there is something missing with modern games, And the same goes for almost every other gaming system; PC (Deus Ex, Doom etc.. compared to "F.E.A.R." and so on... god damn short games), SNES and N64 compared to GC (old mario games and old Metroid games, the original DK games on SNES compared to the shit they put out on N64..).

Makes me angry.

/pointless nerd rant.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 18, 2009)

the standard of modern video games is very high I believe. just look at GTAIV, Resident Evil 5 and Call of Duty 4 as examples.

if you're talking a little less modern, such as PS2 games though, I thought Vice City was amazing! no other PS2 games stick out in my mind as being of such a high standard.


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## mikernaut (Mar 18, 2009)

The gaming industry these days has basically turned into Hollywood. Most studios are just pumping out a mediocre product under tight deadlines (alot of the time unrealistic). The big publishers have more say as to what the content and game is about , so they are scared to be creative and take chances. All they are after is the consumers $. 

I have worked in the industry as a artist for over 8 years and I see the bad decisions and copying of the "hot flavor of the month title" constantly. Most the people that work at the studios are really passionate about what they do but are often handicapped and not listened to when they try to make the game better. 

Our current project has been going on about 4 and a half years now because the insanely bad management , planning, re-writing the story, changing the gameplay, etc.
We basically changed and redone the game atleast 2 times over and made tons of assets which only and 1/4 will be used. It was a dream project to work on when I started and now I utterly can't stand what it has become and can't wait for it to end. 

Now there still are the occasion really good games. I really enjoyed titles such as ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Silent Hill 2 and 3, Halflife 2, Fallout 3, Mirrors Edge and I'm currently enjoying Resident Evil 5. 

Yeah theres alot of problems and struggles going on behind the scenes. Theres no reason why games can't be as good as a well crafted movie and considered a art form. But the people calling the shots really hinder this as in most cases they are soo out of touch with what makes a good game. 

It's alot like the music industry actually. Pop music radio fluff mediocrity rules while quality bands/music struggles.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> the standard of modern video games is very high I believe. just look at GTAIV, Resident Evil 5 and Call of Duty 4 as examples.
> 
> if you're talking a little less modern, such as PS2 games though, I thought Vice City was amazing! no other PS2 games stick out in my mind as being of such a high standard.



That's 3 games though.. bar a couple of free-roam games like Fallout 3 and GTA, the games are shorter, the character designs suck, and the stories aregoing downhill. The games that_ were_ great on PS1 and earlier have gone down the shitter (Spyro and Crash being the two best examples i can think of)  Is it just me?



mikernaut said:


> The gaming industry these days has basically turned into Hollywood. Most studios are just pumping out a mediocre product under tight deadlines (alot of the time unrealistic). The big publishers have more say as to what the content and game is about , so they are scared to be creative and take chances. All they are after is the consumers $.
> 
> I have worked in the industry as a artist for over 8 years and I see the bad decisions and copying of the "hot flavor of the month title" constantly. Most the people that work at the studios are really passionate about what they do but are often handicapped and not listened to when they try to make the game better.
> 
> ...



THANK YOU!!

This. The ingenuity of so many of teh older games has gone, its all just the same scum released a billion times under different pseudonyms. Not to mention the fact that there are so many completely sub-par "movie" video games clogging up the cretive aspects of the video gaming industry doesn;t help.

Id just like to see some more risks being taken, that can make silly sounding ideas fun. Theres one game on PS1, i can't remember the name, but you were a diver on a little submarine thing, and it was fucking awesome!!

When you can do that to a game that mght sound really weird and uninteresting manages to incorporate some actual history, pretty cool design, and fun gameplay, fucking go for it!


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 18, 2009)

> The gaming industry these days has basically turned into Hollywood. Most studios are just pumping out a mediocre product under tight deadlines (alot of the time unrealistic). The big publishers have more say as to what the content and game is about , so they are scared to be creative and take chances. All they are after is the consumers $.



definitely, I've seen the way that games are now copying each other's genres and storylines the same as films do and that saddens me. I can only pray that developers have more a say in what goes on in future titles, I get the impression that the Gears of War franchise doesn't suffer this problem and look at the results!

I do agree with you though Demoniac about the standard being generally lower. I used to buy every game that came out that I thought looked cool until I quickly realised that the only games worth picking up are the big-name titles because they HAVE to be good to live up the hype.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I do agree with you though Demoniac about the standard being generally lower. I used to buy every game that came out that I thought looked cool until I quickly realised that the only games worth picking up are the big-name titles because they HAVE to be good to live up the hype.



TBH recently the thing getting to me the most is the slow gameplay (in some cases) and the _length_ of them.. they're so fucking short now!


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 18, 2009)

I know, Resi Evil 5 is a good example of that: it's incredibly short and some of the earlier missions are so slow to pick up.

Gears of War 2 is the opposite in the sense that there was never a dull moment, even from the beginning, it was 100% action from start to finish, I love games like that. it pisses me off when I get a game and I have to go through the motions of 2 really bland, boring missions before you can start getting to the good stuff.

people complained about Dead Space being short, but I thought it was a good length, especially considering how good it was.

if a game has amazing gameplay and sick graphics, I really don't mind it being short. I guess I'm a quality over quantity kinda guy.


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## Triple-J (Mar 18, 2009)

I agree with you but I think it's this gen that sucks cause how many more dumb shoot em-ups that feature skinheaded spacemarines do we need?!

I think it's partly due to so many lazy developers imitating each other and developers that make games in a long running series forgetting what made the originals successful and therefore losing their audience. 
For example look at the Sonic games each one of them gets further and further away from what people liked about them but Sega don't seem to have realised this yet and keep giving us games were Sonic turns into a werewolf or is a knight with a sword?!  

I worked in games retail for a number of years and began during the end of the PS1 era and everytime I'd get paid back then there was always something I wanted to buy and when the Dreamcast came out I was spending more on games than on food and clothes  
I was spoilt for choice back then and when I had a day off work I could spend all of it playing games but now I play a few hours a week at the most and it's all on emulators for my XBOX anyway.
The last games that got me excited were RE4 and Ninja Gaiden Black and I'm considering buying a 360 just for StreetFighter 4 and to play Smackdown but for the most part I don't really care much about modern games anymore.


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## Nick (Mar 18, 2009)

fallout 3 
resident evil 5
call of duty 4
gears of war 1 and 2
assasins creed
oblivion

im sure i could come up with more great games of recent time.

sorry but i cant agree that games like spyro or crash bandicoot are anywhere near the level of resident evil 5 for example.

my only complaint is that games do seem a bit short now


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 18, 2009)

> Assassin's Creed



yes! I thought this was an amazing game.

I got pissed off with everyone hating on it, critics and gamers alike. yes it was repetitive. so what? EVERY single game out there is repetitive, I thought it was such a stupid thing to mark it down for. in terms of immersive, original gameplay I thought it hit the nail on the head.


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## Nick (Mar 18, 2009)

indeed assasins creed was a massive breakthrough in gaming. 

there should be more games like that and they should build on it being more of an RPG than it was.

im sure the next one will be even better


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 18, 2009)

+1 on the RPG idea, if it was a sandbox game like GTA in medieval times with lots of RPG elements like Oblivion that would've been SO GOOD.

I loved Mirror's Edge also, ending was a bit gay but the game itself took the Assassin's Creed idea and ran with it.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

Nick said:


> fallout 3
> resident evil 5
> call of duty 4
> gears of war 1 and 2
> ...



The difference for me is just the originality aspect. Spyro was a kind of new take on platform games, and Crash Bandicoot was a modern take on the classic style with some twists. I agree with all of your games though, bar Gears Of War... which to me are just Warhammer 40,000 with a different label. It gives me the shits.

There just isn't enough diversity, or new ideas; just the exact same games released and relreleased under different names until the idea is just trash. Even the games that started off with a half decent idea (like F.E.A.R., short htough it was) just keep releasing the exact same shit with slightly different layouts. I just seem to remember all these games coming out that were all different and all at least somewhat original, and ALL of them were way longer than most games nowadays...


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## sami (Mar 18, 2009)

My beef is that ever since PS1, all games are 3D. You're most likely either behind a gun, on a skateboard, or on foot, but it's all 360 environment. I miss the 2D days.

Sometimes something different comes out that's refreshing. Unfortunately it's not that often. The last game I can think of was Viewtiful Joe.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

^ That was such a great game  Nice to see something interesting too


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## synrgy (Mar 18, 2009)

mikernaut said:


> lots of good points


 
The problem is, you can't point the finger at the industry. You have to point it at us -- the gamers. WE'RE the ones who keep buying CRAP titles. WE'RE the ones who keep drooling all over ourselves every time Square Enix takes a dump and slaps a Final Fantasy logo on it. WE'RE the ones who keep saying "Sure, we'll buy a gaming system that comes with no games and no accessories" and "Sure, we'll keep paying higher prices for shorter games with less overall content despite the global economy tanking" and "Sure, we'll wait in line for 18 hours to buy a console that doesn't even have HD capabilities because we're fucking SUCKERS for good marketing campaigns"..

It's our fault. Not even just a little bit -- it's COMPLETELY our fault.

If we stopped buying shit, there's a 99.9&#37; chance they'd stop making it.

Unfortunately, we're not stopping, and are showing no signs of stopping any time soon, because we (my self included, so don't misunderstand) are SHEEP. I'm just as guilty as the next guy for having bought titles like Gears of War 2, GTA IV, etc.

It seems to me that we were on the precipice of a new industry back just before broadband internet became commonplace in consumer homes accross the country. Guys like John Carmack (of ID software) at the time were talking about all these technologies they were working on, which ultimately ended up getting wasted on MMORPG titles like Everquest and World of Warcraft. We had companies like Nintendo promising us that the days of the sequel were over because 'in the future' we'd just be able to download expansion packs, new levels, characters, costumes, etc, and add them onto whatever title we'd _already purchased once._ Now we have that technology, but of course we're paying for it on a per-download basis, and it hasn't slowed down the shameful sequel factory that the gaming industry has become over the last decade.

In that sense, developers aren't even TRYING any more. If a title is popular enough, all they have to do is take the _original engine_, add ONE playable character, and *slightly* re-design some of the levels and BAM!! We've got ourselves a 'sequel'. I mean, let's be honest with ourselves -- Gears of War 2 was _fun_, but could have just as easily been an expansion pack for the first Gears of War. The engine was basically the same, they added (fixed) a few control things, a couple new weapons and that was basically it.

Personally, I find it depressing when I go to the game store not knowing what I'm looking for, spend 2 hours staring at the shelves, only to end up walking out empty handed. If it's not a useless sequel to a mediocre game, it's some bull shit excuse for a 'new' title that's just a BLATANT rip off of a previous title. Any of you guys who play on the 360 and like RPG titles probably know what I'm talking about, as we pretty much have 2 options: Final Fantasy rip offs, or Elder Scrolls rip offs. I mean, I loved Mass Effect, dont' get me wrong, but that title was the exception rather than the rule..

All I'm really trying to say is, the industry isn't going to change until we the consumers change, and I don't see that happening any time soon.

*edit* So long as I'm here, I just thought I'd mention that the last REALLY refreshing title I can remember playing was Psychonauts.


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## sakeido (Mar 18, 2009)

I think games are just as good as they have always been. I've gone back and played a lot of games I really enjoyed as a kid and.. most of them suck, or are boring. I haven't played past FF6's intro in YEARS since it is so slow and uninteresting. Chrono Trigger was always really overrated. I haven't fired up my Genesis in a long time, and sold all my good NES games since they were worth good money.

There are some still unequaled classics from the past - X-COM UFO Defense being one of my favorite games of all time, and it never got a proper sequel. But I like a lot of modern games better.. I'd take SF4 over Street Fighter II, FFXII over VII, MGS3 over MGS1, etc. 

I prefer shorter games. And cinematics are getting worse? What? Have you _seen_ Resident Evil 5 in motion? This just doesn't make any sense.. games, visually, are better now than they ever have been (naturally). Some designs are copied pretty badly but for every space marine game, there's a Assassin's Creed, Halo Wars, or Heavenly Sword. 



sami said:


> My beef is that ever since PS1, all games are 3D. You're most likely either behind a gun, on a skateboard, or on foot, but it's all 360 environment. I miss the 2D days.
> 
> Sometimes something different comes out that's refreshing. Unfortunately it's not that often. The last game I can think of was Viewtiful Joe.



Castle Crashers, Alien Hominid, Fez, Braid, and game mechanics-wise, Street Fighter IV, are all 2D games. I miss 2D games a lot but the ones that are still coming out have absolutely fantastic graphics and some nicely polished gameplay.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

sakeido said:


> I think games are just as good as they have always been. I've gone back and played a lot of games I really enjoyed as a kid and.. most of them suck, or are boring. I haven't played past FF6's intro in YEARS since it is so slow and uninteresting. Chrono Trigger was always really overrated. I haven't fired up my Genesis in a long time, and sold all my good NES games since they were worth good money.
> 
> There are some still unequaled classics from the past - X-COM UFO Defense being one of my favorite games of all time, and it never got a proper sequel. But I like a lot of modern games better.. I'd take SF4 over Street Fighter II, FFXII over VII, MGS3 over MGS1, etc.
> 
> ...




Hm, i knew i should have reworded that one.. The cinematics just aren't as intense seeming to me, because (i suppose its a good thing) theyre no longer prerendered so far as im aware. The thing with older PS1 games was that the cut scenes and cinematics were infinitely better graphically and visually than the game itself, whereas now, there isnt that pleasure for me at least.

That probably gets too far into the whole "i like a video game to be like a vdeo game, not a movie" discussion though.

Disregard that one 

EDIT: I dont mind short games, and one of my favorite games of all time is still Devil May Cry, which i can now beat in around 40 minutes, but it has every other element for a good dame (for me), bar significantly better cinematic sequences. It annoys me, though, that seemingly all the PS2 games i own, and a good deal of the PS3 and PC games ive played are ALL so short... They all have some degree of potential, but whther through time constraints, lack of care, laziness on the part of the developers or whatever, are just sub-par.


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## synrgy (Mar 18, 2009)

sakeido said:


> Castle Crashers, Alien Hominid, Fez, Braid, and game mechanics-wise, Street Fighter IV, are all 2D games. I miss 2D games a lot but the ones that are still coming out have absolutely fantastic graphics and some nicely polished gameplay.


 
Bionic Commando Re-armed (XBLA) is worth a mention there as well. It was a blast.


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## Demeyes (Mar 18, 2009)

I think people aren't realising how much development goes into creating a new game. There is years of programming to create a new game. The technology and expectancies of gamers mean that they have to pack so much in, they simply can't develop brand new experimental games as easily as they used to. The work that goes into graphics and physics engines for the smallest little things in new games is unreal. To say the developers are lazy is a bit short sighted I'd say.
As a result games are going to be shorter and they will rely on pre-existing developments to base new titles off of.


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## sami (Mar 18, 2009)

synrgy said:


> Bionic Commando Re-armed (XBLA) is worth a mention there as well. It was a blast.



Man, I STILL haven't played that yet (me = poor)


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## MFB (Mar 18, 2009)

I think the only problem with games todays are that they're terribly short. I mean, Mirrors Edge was done in like 4-5 days for like 4 hours a day. Ninja Gaiden II took me maybe like a week and a half to two weeks at best; but at least the replay value for me is good cause they're so many different ways to approach things. But stuff like Gears of War 2, Call of Duty 4, they can be pushed through in no time.


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## RenegadeDave (Mar 18, 2009)

I can't bring myself to beat Gears of War 2. The first one's story was full of holes, but the characters were so well written that I pressed on because I cared about the characters. 

The second one is essentially just a Dom and Marcus love fest with a weak story and less of the appeal that the first GOW had. 

Meanwhile, COD4 had an awesome single player campaign (I thought), and I'm still outrageously hooked on it's multiplayer. I've no idea what prestige I am now, but i was late coming to the game. I rejected it at first thinking I hated COD2 and Halo 3 had just come out. I can't touch Halo 3 anymore, or any old school FPS that encourage weapon whoring.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 18, 2009)

Demeyes said:


> I think people aren't realising how much development goes into creating a new game. There is years of programming to create a new game. The technology and expectancies of gamers mean that they have to pack so much in, they simply can't develop brand new experimental games as easily as they used to. The work that goes into graphics and physics engines for the smallest little things in new games is unreal. To say the developers are lazy is a bit short sighted I'd say.
> As a result games are going to be shorter and they will rely on pre-existing developments to base new titles off of.



But honestly dude, look at something like Tenchu 2, or "Shinobi" or "Shiobido" and then look at MGS3, Tekken 5, and FF12 and tell me there isnt more those first 3 could have done in a reasonable timeframe to have made those games infinitely better.. at the very least make the graphics presentable for PS2...


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## Triple-J (Mar 18, 2009)

synrgy said:


> It's our fault. Not even just a little bit -- it's COMPLETELY our fault.
> 
> If we stopped buying shit, there's a 99.9&#37; chance they'd stop making it.



I don't think it's just us as one of the things I noticed working in videogames is that chains only tend to stock mass market stuff, when Okami came out we had less than 10 copies in our store on day of release and there were barely any within the company.

This happened a lot with other titles that stand out such as Ico and Mirror's edge and a lot of non Warcraft + Final Fantasy role play stuff pretty much anything that wasn't a sports/driving title or a shooter instantly became rare but the thing is that we would always have people asking for it.

The difference between now and then is gamers as a culture have changed and gaming has become more open and it's not so much of a "cult" thing anymore. 
Games now days are made for Jocks and average joes not hardcore gamers this is because the Jocks and average joes make up the majority of games buyers now so publishers/developers want to go after their money which is why we see less innovation.


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## synrgy (Mar 18, 2009)

Demeyes said:


> I think people aren't realising how much development goes into creating a new game. There is years of programming to create a new game. The technology and expectancies of gamers mean that they have to pack so much in, they simply can't develop brand new experimental games as easily as they used to. The work that goes into graphics and physics engines for the smallest little things in new games is unreal. To say the developers are lazy is a bit short sighted I'd say.
> As a result games are going to be shorter and they will rely on pre-existing developments to base new titles off of.


 
There's _some_ validity to that, but I don't believe the major issue on the development end of things is man-hours. I think it's marketability.

Put yourself in the companies' shoes -- you're faced with a choice:

1. Take a chance, and build something new/exciting from scratch, which may or may not take off depending on your ability to market it and the consumer's willingness to take the chance on something unproven, and will of course take longer to develop.

2. Crank out a sequel, based on an existing engine/title, which you can virtually guarantee the sales of based on the sales of it's predecessor, and will take a fraction of the time to develop.

Sadly, if it were MY paycheck on the line, I know which option I'd choose, despite my leanings as a gamer.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 18, 2009)

synrgy said:


> The problem is, you can't point the finger at the industry. You have to point it at us -- the gamers. WE'RE the ones who keep buying CRAP titles. WE'RE the ones who keep drooling all over ourselves every time Square Enix takes a dump and slaps a Final Fantasy logo on it. WE'RE the ones who keep saying "Sure, we'll buy a gaming system that comes with no games and no accessories" and "Sure, we'll keep paying higher prices for shorter games with less overall content despite the global economy tanking" and "Sure, we'll wait in line for 18 hours to buy a console that doesn't even have HD capabilities because we're fucking SUCKERS for good marketing campaigns"..
> 
> It's our fault. Not even just a little bit -- it's COMPLETELY our fault.
> 
> ...



epic post man, intelligent insight into the matter. I tried to posi rep you for it but it says I got to 'spread some around' before I could rep you again


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## yingmin (Mar 18, 2009)

I still say that nobody's ever made a better game than Battletoads.


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## synrgy (Mar 18, 2009)

yingmin said:


> I still say that nobody's ever made a better game than Battletoads.


 


At least people *remember* that one. I can't tell you how many hours I put into M.U.L.E., and I haven't yet met another human being who's even heard of it.


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## JBroll (Mar 20, 2009)

Modern games blow goats pretty hard, but keep in mind that you only remember the good games from years ago - Shazaam, anyone?

The fact that people point to GTA36, Call of Duty 18 - Kill Dem Fuckn Terrists, and Halo 69 doesn't speak well for gaming, though - if game manufacturers were forced to put out a text adventure and drop the shiny toys for one fucking disk, maybe two out of ten would last because stories just aren't that fucking important anymore. It also doesn't help that everyone wants to have ridiculously complicated shinies and software writers spend so much time trying to use all of the hardware compatibility at the expense of good stories and ORIGINAL FUCKING FRANCHISES FOR FUCK'S SAKE.

Synrgy, that's exactly why I don't buy games. When I want to play a game I pull out Fallout, Worms Armageddon, or SMAC.

Jeff


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## All_¥our_Bass (Mar 20, 2009)

I used to really like being a gamer, but I've been buying games less and less because it's been getting a bit stale.

I still have my old segs genesis, I had a ps1(then it broke), a ps2 and a gamrboy color.

It's the storylines that aren't really doing it for me, also there's less "off-the-wall" titles in general (stuff like crash bandicoot, oddworld ). There's a lot of flashy cool stuff, which isn't bad, but there's too much focus on looking good than having substance.

I like long games with lots of secrets/extras, since I like to be able to play a game for awhi8le, beat it, and still come back for more. I can't tell you how many times I've played through the original sonic series, Pokemon R/B/G/S, FF VII, and the oddworld games.

Another thing I've noticed it that the games got easier, in a bad way. There's not as much challenge, though wanting to through teh controller through your TV is just as bad.


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## MFB (Mar 20, 2009)

I've been really tempted to pick up a lot of games like Left 4 Dead, Street Fighter 4, or Resident Evil 5 then I think about how short they are and the possibility of a good story and the case of those three games is :

- Zombie outbreak, people fighting to stay alive
- Fighter game, no real story
- Another "zombie" outbreak...in Africa! Go there and do shit then be done

So it's really like, why spend the $50-$60 on a week and a half of enjoyment when I can rent it and beat it for a 1/6th of the price?


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## Benjo230 (Mar 20, 2009)

Agree with the renting comment.

Im very very strange with games. Example:
Got GTA IV, the day it came out, initial impression was "Woo, GTA...next gen console...win!". However within afew weeks it was like "God, isn't this mission exactly the same as the one i played a week ago, bar a little story change..."

For me, it got very boring very quickly, finished it very quickly (didn't rush through it, i took my time) sold it and bought Metal Gear Solid 4. Now though, im finding myself wanting to buy it again, even though i couldn't see a lot of replay value, i guess for once i want to get 100&#37; on a GTA game at least once before i give up on Gaming as a whole 

Metal Gear Solid 4 was a phenominal game, despite very long winded (sometimes too long! 3 hours plus or something like that for the final cinematic :|). Tonnes of replay value to get all the cool items (stealth, bandanna etc...) and an incredible online. I spent at least 3 times the amount of time i put into MGS4's campaign on the online alone.

I still can't understand the appeal of Gears Of War. I played the first one and hated it, if the second is anything like that (gameplay/storywise) i won't be getting it anytime soon.

Overall, if theres a game i really want, im willing to wait a little while until i get a reasonable pre-owned price. I wouldn't pay full retail for half the games that are out there at the moment.

I do agree that video games as a whole are slipping, alot of which i think is to come up with an original concept, something that Assassin's Creed and Mirror's Edge have managed to do, both of which were top games.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 20, 2009)

Its because the focus has shifted from single player to multiplayer. TBH i havn't even beat CoD4's single player after owning it since last may but im one level away from 7th prestige in multi. Btw i thought Bioshock was pretty freakin sick.


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 20, 2009)

Bioshock was freaking sick! I'm looking foward to the sequel.



> I still can't understand the appeal of Gears Of War. I played the first one and hated it, if the second is anything like that (gameplay/storywise) i won't be getting it anytime soon.



I guess some people can't, but there's a lot of hardcore gamers who think it's the best gaming franchise out there period. personally, I think both games are solid gold, of an extremely high standard and I can't wait to get my hands on 3


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 20, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Bioshock was freaking sick! I'm looking foward to the sequel.
> 
> 
> 
> I guess some people can't, but there's a lot of hardcore gamers who think it's the best gaming franchise out there period. personally, I think both games are solid gold, of an extremely high standard and I can't wait to get my hands on 3



The single player campaigns for both were awesome to beat with my brother on Co-Op. The multiplayer in the first one suffered alot from a shitty matchmaking system. The second ones multi is alright but not very addictive


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## BigPhi84 (Mar 20, 2009)

Oregon Trail FTW!


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## Scar Symmetry (Mar 20, 2009)

Stealthtastic said:


> The single player campaigns for both were awesome to beat with my brother on Co-Op. The multiplayer in the first one suffered alot from a shitty matchmaking system. The second ones multi is alright but not very addictive





I did GOW2 with my bro on co-op, the parts I did on insane without him were excrutiatingly hard (and he's crap at GOW, he just took some of the Locust's attention off me) and it was sick fun!

I agree about the multiplayer too, I think GOW multiplayer is more designed for clans and all that super-serious gay stuff.


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## Sepultorture (Mar 20, 2009)

i know how you feel, i remember playing MGS for the PS and that game took me damn near forever, same with resident evil 1 and 2.

nowadays i'm done a game in a day or two and don't find anymore replay value in it

i just beat resident evil 5 again and this time on verteran, now i'm playing one more time through the game with infinite rocket launcher just so i can wipe the floor with all the monsters asses, but even now the game really doesn't hold much for me, story wise, it ended far too soon, and didn't seam to have the pizazz of the other games when umbrella was still around, or the new feel and long play of RE 4.

now if only Half Life 2: Episode 3 would come out, damn games are starting to bore me.


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## synrgy (Mar 20, 2009)

So obviously, I like talking about video games. 

The problem I have with renting is the timetable it puts on me -- either I get what I'm going to get out of the game before the late fees kick in, or I have to either return and re-rent the same title or deal with the late fees.  Gave up on that concept years ago. The first trial month of Gamefly was nice, but then after the introductory month the price jacks up more than 50%. 

On a positive note to any of you who loved the old Street Fighter series, the new one is worth picking up. The physics/control scheme haven't really changed at all, save for being more responsive/fluid, but the graphics are definitely new school. My inner 12 year old (who used to chuck his SNES controller at the floor in frustration while playing the original SFII in 1992) definitely approves. 

I think there is one other very important angle that hasn't come up in the discussion yet, which is that at the end of the day, the video game industry is targeting kids. Granted, the better selling titles tend to be rated 'mature', but let's face it -- if you're old enough to have played on the original Atari or NES when they were 'state of the art', then just like me you're probably a little old for gaming. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of 'adult' titles, or that there's anything wrong with being an (almost) 30 year old dude who plays console games. It's just to say that I'm willing to bet that if you ask an 8 year old what they think about today's gaming world, it's more than likely that they're THRILLED with it.

Related to that, is the graphics versus story/imagination angle that mostly applies to those of us who are a pinch older. When we were kids, games HAD to have good stories and we HAD to use our imaginations while we played because let's face it -- Mario was little more than a red pixelated blob, Link was little more than a green pixelated blob, and we had to convince ourselves that red squres were complex alien warships while the green rectangle was our friendly forces tank.

Perspective helps. When you think about the vast majority of games available to the consumer market prior to the NES, they didn't really even HAVE stories. 90% (or more) of the games on the Atari were the same concept: Level after level of increasingly difficult AI, and rather than 'finish the story' all you could try to do is 'beat the high score'. To this day, I have NO FUCKING IDEA what the point of Pitfall was supposed to be. I just ran, and ran, and ran, and ran, and ran, and I only ever saw about 5 different screens. The same could be said for Defender. You could put the controller down and walk away for 5 days with your ship moving forward the whole time, and the screen wouldn't look any different when you came back to it.

Then along came the NES with minds like Miyamoto behind development, and the whole industry exploded. Suddenly 'high scores' became relegated to arcade titles, and console gaming became all about 'finishing the story'.

With that perspective in mind, if you take a title like Mass Effect and compare it directly to something like an 8/16/64/128-bit generation title, it suddenly becomes much more difficult to criticize the industry, because it really has come a long way in a short period of time. Before I was born, the industry hardly existed. In my relatively short lifetime, it's become one of the largest/most profitable industries in our economy.

Not to be my own devil's advocate or anything.


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## Triple-J (Mar 20, 2009)

One thing that has had an effect on modern games but hasn't been mentioned so far is the death of the arcade.

Arcades were the testing ground for most major titles and franchises of the 80's/90's and anything that was a success there got tuned up and ported to consoles, nearly all of Sega's, Capcom's and Konami's classic titles began life as arcade games.

Plus the success of a game in the arcade was literally free advertising for the home console version as they were places where gamers socialized and word of mouth got around.

Now that they are gone it's changed things and sadly not in a positive way.


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## JBroll (Mar 20, 2009)

At least we still have Gamestop...

[action=JBroll]shudders, and collapses from straining his sarcasm[/action]

Jeff


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## AK DRAGON (Mar 20, 2009)

modern games = how much money can we make from putting crap out that people will buy 
vs classic games that had better quality control and were actually good


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## Uber Mega (Mar 20, 2009)

AK DRAGON said:


> modern games = how much money can we make from putting crap out that people will buy
> vs classic games that had better quality control and were actually good



Not exactly, but in some cases, yes. 

There are plenty of great releases currently out and coming out in the near future, but I just don't see what I used to in gaming, new games can't recreate the feeling I got walking out onto Hyrule Field for the first time in OoT, or multiplayer Goldeneye 64 with my brother...mainly because i've changed as a person and I guess my attitude and affection towards games has changed too. The "magic" has gone.

Gaming peaked for me in 2000 with the first Deus Ex which instantly became my all time favorite game...no game will ever have as big an impact on me as that, I also stand by the fact that no game has got the balance as right since.


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## lacrimm (Mar 20, 2009)

i love old games!! but if they kept putting out the same shit all the time it would get boring, new games are an evolution, you cant stop it, people wont stay interested


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## AK DRAGON (Mar 20, 2009)

lacrimm said:


> i love old games!! but if they kept putting out the same shit all the time it would get boring, new games are an evolution, you cant stop it, people wont stay interested



+1
Exactly my point 
garbage in garbage out

I don't wanna play 8 different versions of how to kill zombies. yes it's fun at first then it gets dull.
the developers have lost their creative juices to make games unique


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 20, 2009)

Uber Mega said:


> Not exactly, but in some cases, yes.
> 
> There are plenty of great releases currently out and coming out in the near future, but I just don't see what I used to in gaming, new games can't recreate the feeling I got walking out onto Hyrule Field for the first time in OoT, or multiplayer Goldeneye 64 with my brother...mainly because i've changed as a person and I guess my attitude and affection towards games has changed too. The "magic" has gone.
> 
> Gaming peaked for me in 2000 with the first Deus Ex which instantly became my all time favorite game...no game will ever have as big an impact on me as that, I also stand by the fact that no game has got the balance as right since.



Deux Ex was insanely awesome.


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## estabon37 (Mar 21, 2009)

AK DRAGON said:


> modern games = how much money can we make from putting crap out that people will buy
> vs classic games that had better quality control and were actually good



Well, kinda. We only remember the GOOD games! NES: Super Mario 1-3; Bionic Commando; Bart Vs The Space Mutants; The Flintstones; Star Wars ........... hang on, a tick. I'm sure there were more than six games released on the NES but I only remember the ones I loved.

The comparison to music is valid. People who think music from the 70's was better either weren't around to hear the bad music or don't remember it because it was fourty years ago. Who wants to remember the crap?

On a different note, I paid $82 Australian for Bart vs The Space Mutants in 1991. It was ALL OF MY BIRTHDAY MONEY AND SAVINGS FOR ONE GAME THAT WITH PRACTICE I COULD EVENTUALLY BEAT IN 40 MINUTES. I paid $110 for Fallout 3. Superior storyline, superior gameplay and over 150 hours of gameplay so far. I think we're doing okay in this day and age.


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## ILdÐÆMcº³ (Mar 22, 2009)

I liked Mass Effect and Fallout 3 recently.


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## MFB (Mar 23, 2009)

Mass Effect was really good, but I'm kind of tired with BioWare's style of dialogue. It never varies. Maybe their Star Wars MMO will change that...if it ever comes out


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## Sepultorture (Mar 23, 2009)

i have to agree fallout 3 was fuckin good

i like half life aswell it was a more story and interaction spin on an FPS which alot of people seamed to sidestep for better graphics.


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## Korbain (Mar 23, 2009)

Gaming got popular, so they dumbed down everything to make it more accessible. All the new gamers want is better graphics, etc. Not plot or character depth, so they do that. As all us old fashioned games don't care all too much for graphics lol. We just want a decent fucking gaming experience that can keep us entertained for a good 20+ hours atleast. I'm sick of games that only take 5-10 hours tops to complete. 

Though, in saying that, their are some great game developers out there that have and still do deliver great gaming experiences, pushing boundries etc. If you wanna save gaming, really give mod's more support. Mod developers are the ones doing the shit for gaming, too bad half their idea's are ripped off and poorly implemented into big budget shitty games lol


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## synrgy (Mar 23, 2009)

Korbain said:


> Though, in saying that, their are some great game developers out there that have and still do deliver great gaming experiences, pushing boundries etc. If you wanna save gaming, really give mod's more support. Mod developers are the ones doing the shit for gaming, too bad half their idea's are ripped off and poorly implemented into big budget shitty games lol


 
There's something to that, for sure. A great example is Team Fortress, which was originally a mod for the first Quake on PC. In short order, the number of people logged in to play online quickly jumped in favor of the mod rather than the original game, and next thing we knew Team Fortress was it's own franchise. (TF2/Portal make the Orange Box more than worth it even if you don't like half life!!)

Another solid example are some of the small time developers making truly FUN games on Xbox Live Arcade. Stuff like N+, Braid, Bionic Commando Re-Armed, etc. Lots of cool things happening there, and I'm looking forward to seeing what those developers do with bigger budgets.


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## Choop (Mar 25, 2009)

Korbain said:


> Gaming got popular, so they dumbed down everything to make it more accessible. All the new gamers want is better graphics, etc. Not plot or character depth, so they do that. As all us old fashioned games don't care all too much for graphics lol. We just want a decent fucking gaming experience that can keep us entertained for a good 20+ hours atleast. I'm sick of games that only take 5-10 hours tops to complete.
> 
> Though, in saying that, their are some great game developers out there that have and still do deliver great gaming experiences, pushing boundries etc. If you wanna save gaming, really give mod's more support. Mod developers are the ones doing the shit for gaming, too bad half their idea's are ripped off and poorly implemented into big budget shitty games lol




You pretty much hit the nail on the head. Good games are becoming few and far between because of just that..but you're also right in that it's not to say good developers don't exist. A couple that come to mind right off the bat are Valve and Bioware. I'm more of a PC gamer nowadays and these 2 (among others) always seem to deliver.


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## daemon barbeque (Mar 25, 2009)

I remember the day I bought the PS1 ,how it was a very exciting moment ,and how Lara Croft ,Solid Snake ,Mitsurugi ,Heihachi Mishima ,Lei Wulong ,Tifa ,Cloud ,Voldo , Kain , Subaru Ipreza WRX (LOL) , Feisar had their own qualities and characters. Those where names with meanings.
I can't find the depth of MGS in any game. It was marvelous. So was Legacy of kain and FFVII . I am not excited anymore. People do not try to create something like Bushido Blade or Legcy of Kain anymore. The concepts are getting old.

Black and White was a nice game. So is little big adventure. But they are really scarce. The neverending shooter clones make me sick. And the Wait for Diablo III and Starcraft II is painfull.


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## Daemoniac (Mar 26, 2009)

> And the Wait for Diablo III and Starcraft II is painfull.



At least those will be _truly_ worth it


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## arktan (Mar 26, 2009)

No matter what new comes, Morrowind, Beyond Good&Evil and Jedi Academy 3 stay on my comp. Always. They have since years and they will for years. These were/are games that have a certain feeling, like a very simple song that doesn't get boring.

A lot of new games suck from my point of view. 

Example:
I got Fallout3 and stopped playing it after about 5 hours because it was boring. The graphics were nice, the things you could do were nice. Everything was nice. But there was simply no feeling in it. Imagine you're getting out of a vault in a totally destroyed world. Wouldn't you feel just a tiny bit lost? The game didn't give me that feeling and i actually thought that the game itself is guiding me on a hand through the game-world... i know that there are mods and some of them make it playable again but the core of the game is still not working for me, sorry.

The same with Oblivion. There is no feeling of the epicness of the main quest. Just play the main quest in Morrowind and especially the Bloodmoon bowdown expansion and compare it to oblivion or shivering isles... Oblivion just feels tame despite it's better engine, advanced technology, better graphics and more possibilities...

It's like listening to new songs that are composed great yet feel lifeless while some older, simpler songs have more "feeling". But that's a question of taste, i guess...


EDIT: 

But a few good examples of GOOD modern games: 

Europa Universalis 3, it fucking rocks.

Empire: Total war, fucking great despite being tied to steam. I played it on a friend's comp and it was great. I didn't buy it because there is no no-steam version available.

X3 Reunion and X3 Terran Conflict, great games.


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