# RIP John McCain



## Bentaycanada (Aug 25, 2018)

Senator John McCain just passed away, aged 81. I would like to say his passing is a great loss to the American people and he served his country with dignity and honour. 

If you have an interest, the HBO documentary ‘John McCain: For Whom The Bell Tolls’ is s great watch and well worth the time. 

Obituary: John McCain http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40705362


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## Hollowway (Aug 26, 2018)

Yeah, I loved that guy. I'm more left leaning that he was, but I respected his viewpoint, and always wanted to listen to his reasons and beliefs, because unlike many politicians today, I felt like he was honest with himself and us, and had a conviction that his politics really would have moved the country forward. Irrespective of political ideology, sometimes I wish someone like McCain, or Rand Paul, or Bernie Sanders, or any of the guys who truly seem to believe in what they espouse, could just run the country the way they want for a few years, just to see if it would work. 
Anyway, he was a man of integrity and honesty, and he'll be sorely missed. RIP


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## Bentaycanada (Aug 26, 2018)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I loved that guy. I'm more left leaning that he was, but I respected his viewpoint, and always wanted to listen to his reasons and beliefs, because unlike many politicians today, I felt like he was honest with himself and us, and had a conviction that his politics really would have moved the country forward. Irrespective of political ideology, sometimes I wish someone like McCain, or Rand Paul, or Bernie Sanders, or any of the guys who truly seem to believe in what they espouse, could just run the country the way they want for a few years, just to see if it would work.
> Anyway, he was a man of integrity and honesty, and he'll be sorely missed. RIP



That’s pretty much how I felt. We didn’t always see eye to eye and largely came from different perspectives, but I always respected him. 

He was a strong presence in Washington, and was a voice for bi-partisan leadership. Sadly in his last few years he was largely drowned out by spineless band wagon jumpers in his own party, who preferred to shout extremism than actually achieve anything. People like McCain are sadly few and far between right now, and the country needed him more than ever. 

Hopefully we will see a new generation of republicans come through in the next 4-6 years that believe in the same principles he did.


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## guitaardvark (Aug 26, 2018)

I disagreed with McCain on a lot of things politically, but instances like these made me respect him. He didn't vote out of partisanship or expediency, and I recommend you read about his time in Vietnam as it takes a very strong spirit to endure what he did.


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## auxioluck (Aug 26, 2018)

A much wiser and more humble man than most voters cared to believe.

RIP Capt. McCain.


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## Vyn (Aug 26, 2018)

Very sad to see McCain gone. RIP


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Aug 26, 2018)

Not the best high-fiver, but he was great in this:


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## bostjan (Aug 27, 2018)

I had a great deal of respect for him. In the aftermath of 9/11, he was one of very few voices of reason in Washington.

RIP


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## Drew (Aug 27, 2018)

guitaardvark said:


> I disagreed with McCain on a lot of things politically, but instances like these made me respect him. He didn't vote out of partisanship or expediency, and I recommend you read about his time in Vietnam as it takes a very strong spirit to endure what he did.


...not to mention the fact that after returning from Vietnam, he became a champion of improving relations between the two countries - not afraid to speak out against humanitarian issues, but also pushing to improve relations to open and liberalize the country, and became a well-respected figure there, for a man who bombed the country. 

There's quite a lot that I disagree with on McCain, but McCain was one of a dying breed in the GOP, a guy who you could disagree with but still have respect for. A baseball analogy feels cheap here, but he was a Derek Jeter to Trump's A-Rod.


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## JSanta (Aug 27, 2018)

He was a Statesman in the truest sense. I didn't always agree with him, but I respected him. We need more of that on both sides of the aisle right now.


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## Drew (Aug 27, 2018)

In other news, the flags are at full mast at the White House, and half mast at the Washington Monument behind it. Our petty leader, folks.


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## auxioluck (Aug 27, 2018)

Drew said:


> In other news, the flags are at full mast at the White House, and half mast at the Washington Monument behind it. Our petty leader, folks.



My wife just told me about this; apparently Trump is ordering that no flags shall be flown at half mast for McCain?

If true, that's really, REALLY fucked up. Politicizing death belongs in the cesspool of social media, not real life.


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## Drew (Aug 27, 2018)

auxioluck said:


> My wife just told me about this; apparently Trump is ordering that no flags shall be flown at half mast for McCain?
> 
> If true, that's really, REALLY fucked up. Politicizing death belongs in the cesspool of social media, not real life.


I can't confirm Trump ordered it, but I can confirm that the White House flag is currently at full mast while the Washington Monument flags are at half. It's gotten some media attention, but while they didn't specifically point it out in their narration, while waiting for that odd press conference/conference call about the Mexican trade deal to begin, CNBC ran a video shot of the White House with the Washington Monument grounds clearly visible behind it - no commentary, but a clear editorial choice to subtly point it out.


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## tedtan (Aug 27, 2018)

JSanta said:


> He was a Statesman in the truest sense. I didn't always agree with him, but I respected him. We need more of that on both sides of the aisle right now.



This.


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## Drew (Aug 27, 2018)

Trump backtracked and just issued a statement ordering the flag to be flown at half mast until McCain is buried. Good.


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## auxioluck (Aug 28, 2018)

Imagine being the kind of person that makes someone else's death be all about yourself.


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## Bentaycanada (Aug 28, 2018)

I really hope that his passing gives the Republican Party reason for self reflection, but sadly I highly doubt it. 
The world needs more leaders like John McCain.


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Aug 28, 2018)

auxioluck said:


> Imagine being the kind of person that makes someone else's death be all about yourself.



That’s called a funeral.


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## possumkiller (Aug 28, 2018)

That's what my dad and former McCain supporter had to say about it


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## narad (Aug 28, 2018)

“My fellow Americans, whom I have gratefully served for sixty years, and especially my fellow Arizonans,

Thank you for the privilege of serving you and for the rewarding life that service in uniform and in public office has allowed me to lead. I have tried to serve our country honorably. I have made mistakes, but I hope my love for America will be weighed favorably against them.

‘Fellow Americans’ — that association has meant more to me than any other. I lived and died a proud American. We are citizens of the world’s greatest republic, a nation of ideals, not blood and soil. We are blessed and are a blessing to humanity when we uphold and advance those ideals at home and in the world. We have helped liberate more people from tyranny and poverty than ever before in history. We have acquired great wealth and power in the process.

We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries that have sown resentment and hatred and violence in all the corners of the globe. We weaken it when we hide behind walls, rather than tear them down, when we doubt the power of our ideals, rather than trust them to be the great force for change they have always been.

We are three-hundred-and-twenty-five million opinionated, vociferous individuals. We argue and compete and sometimes even vilify each other in our raucous public debates. But we have always had so much more in common with each other than in disagreement. If only we remember that and give each other the benefit of the presumption that we all love our country we will get through these challenging times. We will come through them stronger than before. We always do.

Ten years ago, I had the privilege to concede defeat in the election for president. I want to end my farewell to you with the heartfelt faith in Americans that I felt so powerfully that evening.

I feel it powerfully still.

Do not despair of our present difficulties but believe always in the promise and greatness of America, because nothing is inevitable here. Americans never quit. We never surrender. We never hide from history. We make history.

Farewell, fellow Americans. God bless you, and God bless America.”


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## bostjan (Aug 28, 2018)

That brought a tear to my eye.



narad said:


> We weaken our greatness when we confuse our patriotism with tribal rivalries



I hope these words can resonate with people.


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## narad (Aug 28, 2018)

^^ And I now I understand the need for the quote tags even when it's a non-member speaking ;-)

But a great farewell. It's been a while since a politician made me feel patriotic again.


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## Drew (Aug 28, 2018)

John McCain said:


> Do not despair of our present difficulties but believe always in the promise and greatness of America, because nothing is inevitable here. Americans never quit. We never surrender. We never hide from history. We make history.



 

Damn.


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## Randy (Aug 28, 2018)

So what you're saying is that John McCain despised America?


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## tedtan (Aug 28, 2018)

Randy said:


> So what you're saying is that John McCain despised America?



He was a vet, so gets a pass.


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## Randy (Aug 28, 2018)

tedtan said:


> He was a vet, so gets a pass.



Meh, I prefer my heroes _not_ captured.


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## spudmunkey (Aug 28, 2018)

OK, so are there actually legitimate sources about the more controversial "facts" that have been thrown around about McCain/treason/giving up locations that got other Americans captured/killed? I've doubted it the whole time I've heard these accusations, but there are folks who really have dug in their heels on the issue. "He'd be in prison for treason, if Nixon hadn't pardoned him.", etc.


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## narad (Aug 28, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> OK, so are there actually legitimate sources about the more controversial "facts" that have been thrown around about McCain/treason/giving up locations that got other Americans captured/killed? I've doubted it the whole time I've heard these accusations, but there are folks who really have dug in their heels on the issue. "He'd be in prison for treason, if Nixon hadn't pardoned him.", etc.



Yea, that's fake. 

It basically boiled down to:

~ "They tortured me until I read a statement saying that I'm a war criminal that killed innocent women and children." 
-- McCain

~ '"I'm a war criminal that killed innocent women and children." -- McCain' -- Internet Assholes


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## Vyn (Aug 28, 2018)

narad said:


> Yea, that's fake.
> 
> It basically boiled down to:
> 
> ...



Pretty much this. Americans do love a good conspiracy theory, especially when it suits their political agenda.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Aug 31, 2018)

Yeah, this one stung a bit.
I wasn't even really a big supporter of his, but McCain was definitely one of the ever-declining number of what I call "real politicians." He was a man that really, really cared about his country and dedicated literally his entire life to try and make it better. That level of commitment seems to be a rarity these days and it makes me sad to see another one gone.

At least he had some kind of say in when and how the curtains closed. Hope he went out satisfied with his accomplishments.


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## Drew (Aug 31, 2018)

narad said:


> Yea, that's fake.
> 
> It basically boiled down to:
> 
> ...


Taking partial statements without the remainder that gives them important context, like this, is kind of a classic move of the modern GOP. If you ever get the chjance and haven't read it, Al Franken's "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair And Balanced Look At The Right" has an amazing take-down of one of Anne Coulter's books called "How To Lie With Footnotes" where they take the opening chapter and trace every single endnote ("step one: use end notes, not foot notes, to make it more likely readers won't even bother with them") back to its original source, and sure enough, it's a whole bunch of this. And that book is like 18 years old now.


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## Drew (Aug 31, 2018)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> At least he had some kind of say in when and how the curtains closed. Hope he went out satisfied with his accomplishments.


From what I know of McCain, while I'm sure he was satisfied, I'm sure there was a lot more left undone he wanted to do (some of it I would have even supported), and I'm sure he died wishing he could have done more to promote bipartisanship.


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## USMarine75 (Aug 31, 2018)

Randy said:


> Meh, I prefer my heroes _not_ captured.









vs






Which one is the _real_ despicable tweet?


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## Drew (Aug 31, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> vs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Links aren't working. 

Personally, I like my Presidents not impeached.


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## spudmunkey (Aug 31, 2018)

USMarine75 said:


> vs
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No idea...images aren't loading, and URL's don't seem to be valid.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 31, 2018)

narad said:


> Yea, that's fake.
> 
> It basically boiled down to:
> 
> ...


I'm curious as to how you concluded this with such certainty. I'm not saying it isn't right, I'm saying how do you know for sure? I reckon you weren't actually involved so....CNN?



Vyn said:


> Pretty much this. Americans do love a good conspiracy theory, especially when it suits their political agenda.


On the flip side, some may say people love a good propaganda story and gargle it down with an obedient smile.

Here's what we do know....this guy gets giddy with the idea of bombing.


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## vilk (Aug 31, 2018)

how the fuck do you gargle down?


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## narad (Aug 31, 2018)

crankyrayhanky said:


> I'm curious as to how you concluded this with such certainty. I'm not saying it isn't right, I'm saying how do you know for sure? I reckon you weren't actually involved so....CNN?



Because it's not about the reality of the situation. Whether McCain was a Dr. Manhattan-like presence in Vietnam or was a complete pacifist, the internet idea of McCain admitting he's a war criminal stems from quoting an interview with him out of context.

Of course I think commonsense should dictate that he was not pardoned for war crimes, the thought of the US charging him for war crimes, or the thought of presidential pardons being used to get him out of it. There was very little in the way of convicting US soldiers who actually had committed war crimes in Vietnam, as judged by international policy and oversight.


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## narad (Aug 31, 2018)

^^ Basically the whole "Butcher of Bakersfield" subplot of "Running Man" btw.


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## crankyrayhanky (Aug 31, 2018)

Unless he knows you know the Running Man plot and could be a Butcher under the guise of...oh nevermind RIP you could be war mongrel-er/hero!


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## possumkiller (Aug 31, 2018)

McCain did quite a bit of post-war work in Vietnam trying to help make up in some small way for how we destroyed their country.


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## Randy (Aug 31, 2018)

crankyrayhanky said:


> Here's what we do know....this guy gets giddy with the idea of bombing.




Credit where it's due for voicing an unpopular but relevant perspective. McCain had a lot of awful things in his past, and I've said a lot of mean things about the guy for them over the years.

Part of me says there was some effort to make amends for them later on but it doesn't erase what he did, nor do a handful of negative comments directed at the current president of the US from his own party, nor do rose colored glasses from romanticizing the dead.

Not a viewpoint I'm personally in any rush to argue at this moment but if you're telling the whole story of the guy, yeah, something people shouldn't be so quick to forget.


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## kmanick (Sep 2, 2018)

I find it amusing how so many leftists on this forum praise this man so glowingly yet when he was running for 
the office of President the was a "White supremacist". which one is it? 
I fear that if he wasn't at odds with Trump , his passing would've been a much 'quiter" event and again this is all "Trump Bashing"


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 2, 2018)

kmanick said:


> I find it amusing how so many leftists on this forum praise this man so glowingly yet when he was running for
> the office of President the was a "White supremacist". which one is it?
> I fear that if he wasn't at odds with Trump , his passing would've been a much 'quiter" event and again this is all "Trump Bashing"



Stop making this about Trump or shin kicking. The guy is dead.

I didn't like McCain or his policies. Heck, he's sided with Trump almost 85% of the time while in the senate. Not to mention his cheerleading for the Iraq War and the terrible, deficit increasing tax bill that just passed.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/john-mccain/

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...obama/mccains-record-on-iraq-eager-to-attack/

But, he's dead now. His politics are moot. 

So we can kick each other over bullshit that is now pointless, or pay respects to someone who while did some awful things, wasn't nearly the piece of garbage many of his contemporaries are. 

Any other corpses you feel like splaying out on the table or have you gotten in your "leftist" jabs for the day? I hear the poor girl from Iowa is still warm.


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## narad (Sep 3, 2018)

kmanick said:


> I find it amusing how so many leftists on this forum praise this man so glowingly yet when he was running for the office of President the was a "White supremacist". which one is it?



It's the one that's not the white supremacist one.


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