# Who's played a fanned fret guitar? PLEASE tell me about it!!!



## Hollowway (Aug 19, 2009)

OK, so with all the voting and discussion about the fanned fret Agile, I'm wanting to hear from people who have actually _played_ a fanned fret guitar. Have you? And what were the scale lengths and fan distance? Did you like it? Was it difficult to adapt to? If you had to buy another, what scale/fan would you go with?


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## pink freud (Aug 19, 2009)

Some more questions:

Did you have to adjust how you bend strings? Did you have more control over the bends depending on which direction you went (towards the lower strings vs towards the higher strings)?

How difficult is it to reach fret 22 or 24 on the lowest string?


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## TemjinStrife (Aug 19, 2009)

I've only briefly played this guitar:







I believe it's a 24-27 or 24.5-27.5 fan.

and I played around with another 8, before it had strings on it, but I obviously can't comment on that one.

However, even with such an extreme fan (and a perpendicular fret at the 12th, which is NOT where I'd place it) it was still quite playable. Bending really wasn't any weirder then usual (but I was mainly bending around the 12th fret, which was close to perpendicular.)

Fast scale runs and/or sweeping might have taken some getting used to, but I'm not that great of a player, and basic legato stuff and lead playing was unaffected. Chording was actually easier in a lot of cases as my fingers often had to stretch shorter distances and the fan of the frets helped with wrist position ergonomics.

If I were to order a fanned-fret guitar, I would place the perpendicular fret around the 7th or 9th fret to make the angles less jarring in the lower registers.


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## Hollowway (Aug 19, 2009)

TemjinStrife said:


> I've only briefly played this guitar:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the info! That's hugely helpful. (And I never get tired of looking at that Sherman!)


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## Maniacal (Aug 19, 2009)

Reaching the 24th fret is actually impossible without removing your hand from the neck and bringing your arm around. It took me a few months to get used to and going back to a 6 is no big deal. 

I know nothing about guitars so I will not comment on the build element of it.


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## XEN (Aug 20, 2009)

I have a fanned fret 7 string - 25.5" to 28.625" - perpendicular fret at the octave - tuned in 5ths.
The fan itself was not a big issue to get used to, in fact it almost felt relaxing on the hands. What took some getting used to was the 5ths tuning, but once I had a feel for the chords and scales I felt that the wide fan was extremely well suited for it.
If I were to buy one for a standard tuning I'd go for a smaller fan. The scale lengths would be determined by the desired tuning.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Aug 20, 2009)

ZOMG Urkvlt's posting again


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## XEN (Aug 20, 2009)

hehe 
*quickly runs back to the rock he's been hiding under*


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## Cheesebuiscut (Aug 20, 2009)

TemjinStrife said:


> I've only briefly played this guitar:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fixed!


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## TemjinStrife (Aug 20, 2009)

Ah, yeah, I couldn't remember what the scale was. Thanks.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Aug 20, 2009)

I didn't either but I remembered he had them posted under *guitars in progress* even though that things been finished for a while 

I couldn't imagine how cramped it would get on those high frets on a 22.75 scale. I can barely squeeze my fingers onto the 22-24 frets on a 25.5 scale.


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## pink freud (Aug 20, 2009)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> I didn't either but I remembered he had them posted under *guitars in progress* even though that things been finished for a while
> 
> I couldn't imagine how cramped it would get on those high frets on a 22.75 scale. I can barely squeeze my fingers onto the 22-24 frets on a 25.5 scale.


 
Just think of it as playing a fretless guitar, but you don't have to be as accurate.


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## Cheesebuiscut (Aug 20, 2009)

Never played a fretless guitar, tried a fretless bass once for all of the 3 seconds it took me to realize I hate having my fingers contact the fretboard


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## Hollowway (Aug 20, 2009)

Cheesebuiscut said:


> I didn't either but I remembered he had them posted under *guitars in progress* even though that things been finished for a while
> 
> I couldn't imagine how cramped it would get on those high frets on a 22.75 scale. I can barely squeeze my fingers onto the 22-24 frets on a 25.5 scale.


 

Me too! That's the thing I love about my Intrepid. I bought it for the low F#, but spend all my time practicing sweeps on frets 19-24. It's so roomy it's like the difference between coach and first class! That's why, personally, I'd rather have a fan that goes no smaller than 25". If I have to, I'll get an Octavefourplus string for it. But even 25" is pushing it for comfort, especially with a shallow lower horn and a bolt on neck.


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## Qucifer (Aug 21, 2009)

I play 2 fanned-fret 8-strings on a regular basis. One is an Oni and the other a Sherman.

The Oni is a 3" fan between roughly 29" and 26", with a perpendicular 9th fret. The Sherman is a 3" fan between 28.5" and 25.5" with a perpendicular 7th fret.

There's nothing different about bending strings on a fanned-fret guitar. Getting adjusted to the fan takes minutes. Switching back and forth between fanned and non-fanned instruments is a non-issue.

It's really, really not a big deal.

Any more questions?


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## TemjinStrife (Aug 21, 2009)

Qucifer said:


> I play 2 fanned-fret 8-strings on a regular basis. One is an Oni and the other a Sherman.
> 
> The Oni is a 3" fan between roughly 29" and 26", with a perpendicular 9th fret. The Sherman is a 3" fan between 28.5" and 25.5" with a perpendicular 7th fret.
> 
> ...



Yes, do you have any more pictures of them? 

Your Sherman was the one I got to take a look at without strings... beautiful guitar.


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## Hollowway (Aug 21, 2009)

Qucifer said:


> I play 2 fanned-fret 8-strings on a regular basis. One is an Oni and the other a Sherman.
> 
> The Oni is a 3" fan between roughly 29" and 26", with a perpendicular 9th fret. The Sherman is a 3" fan between 28.5" and 25.5" with a perpendicular 7th fret.
> 
> ...



No more questions - that's pretty much exactly what I was wondering!  Thanks for chiming in. I was getting worried about a 3" fan, but based on what you're saying, I'm stressing for nothing. (Much like I did about ordering my first Intrepid - and it took no time to adjust).

EDIT: OK, one more question, actually. Do you feel the 9th fret is the ideal location for the perp fret?


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## XEN (Aug 21, 2009)

Having mine on the 12th makes for a sizable stretch the closer my fretting hand it to the nut. Having it on the 9th or the 7th would make it a lot easier on the hands. The only downside is the width of the fan at the bride(s). It's all a matter of preference.


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## Qucifer (Aug 21, 2009)

There's very little difference between the 9th and 7th fret perpendiculars. It's not even really noticeable.



TemjinStrife said:


> Yes, do you have any more pictures of them?
> 
> Your Sherman was the one I got to take a look at without strings... beautiful guitar.



One of these days I'll get around to posting more pictures of them. Most of the time I'm too busy playing them.

I don't plan on doing a NGD for the Sherman--to be quite honest, I'm _still_ going through a lot of trouble getting it sorted out.


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## TemjinStrife (Aug 21, 2009)

Oh? What sort of issues?


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## Qucifer (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm not ready to get into the details yet.

My next custom multiscale will be another Oni, without a doubt. We'll just leave it at that.


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## Hollowway (Aug 21, 2009)

Qucifer said:


> I'm not ready to get into the details yet.
> 
> My next custom multiscale will be another Oni, without a doubt. We'll just leave it at that.




No hurry, but if you could post pics of that Oni you have, I'd be luvin' it.


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## TomAwesome (Aug 21, 2009)

I didn't expect to actually see any useful responses since both the Agile and Rotor fanned fret threads were unable to get input from anyone with experience with fanned frets, but all right, there's some helpful info here.


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## Cyclik (Aug 22, 2009)

and what about string sets for guitars with fanned frets?
cause sets, which are balanced while scale is the same for all strings, wouldnt be balanced in a fanned-fret-case, am i mistaking?


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## TomAwesome (Aug 22, 2009)

Cyclik said:


> and what about string sets for guitars with fanned frets?
> cause sets, which are balanced while scale is the same for all strings, wouldnt be balanced in a fanned-fret-case, am i mistaking?



Actually, tension drops fairly drastically going from the high end to the low end on most regular sets, so I think a store bought set of strings might actually be more balanced on a multiscale instrument.


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## TemjinStrife (Aug 22, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> Actually, tension drops fairly drastically going from the high end to the low end on most regular sets, so I think a store bought set of strings might actually be more balanced on a multiscale instrument.



This man speaks truth


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## Cyclik (Aug 23, 2009)

thanks =)


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## vansinn (Aug 23, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> Actually, tension drops fairly drastically going from the high end to the low end on most regular sets, so I think a store bought set of strings might actually be more balanced on a multiscale instrument.



 this can easily be seen using http://www.bangzero.org/stringtension/


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## Loknik (Aug 26, 2009)

Alright, I'm going to bump this.

I was thinking of getting a fanned fret 8, but I don't know where I would put the perpendicular fret or what the scale length should be. The Jackson 6 that I own is a 25.5" scale, so having that for the high E wouldn't be bad, is the 3.125" fan from the 25.5" scale to the 28.625" scale too much you think?


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## Hollowway (Aug 26, 2009)

Loknik said:


> Alright, I'm going to bump this.
> 
> I was thinking of getting a fanned fret 8, but I don't know where I would put the perpendicular fret or what the scale length should be. The Jackson 6 that I own is a 25.5" scale, so having that for the high E wouldn't be bad, is the 3.125" fan from the 25.5" scale to the 28.625" scale too much you think?


 
Well, that's one of the big questions we're trying to answer. In the poll S7eve started for the Agile fanned the vast majority of people voted for that exact spec that you are talking about. But it's unclear how many of them have played a fanned instrument to know how adaptable/playable it is. And it's not super clear whether people are tuning with an 8th low string or an extra high string. Pretty much all of the information I can find on the topic is actually right here in this thread.


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## vansinn (Aug 26, 2009)

^ yeah, it's always easy enough looking in the rear view mirror. If we were to, the polls should've had questions about tunings and experiences, at least something like:
"Using a low tuning?"
"Using a high (A4) tuning?"
"Played a compound scale intrument?"
"Calculated, printed and evaluated compound scales?"

Maybe it's not too late to add a poll about such. I'm thinking it can't be easy for Kurt evaluating the polls and all the comments in several threads..


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## TomAwesome (Aug 26, 2009)

vansinn said:


> I'm thinking it can't be easy for Kurt evaluating the polls and all the comments in several threads..



That's why there are only two polls, and the discussion was supposed to be restricted to one of those threads. The original post in this thread probably should have just been a post in the already existing discussion thread, though this thread seems to have gotten a small bit of useful attention that the other one didn't.

Also, unrelated, but  @ "Last edited by vansinn; Today at 03:24 PM. Reason: speling.. "


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## XEN (Aug 26, 2009)

Loknik said:


> Alright, I'm going to bump this.
> 
> I was thinking of getting a fanned fret 8, but I don't know where I would put the perpendicular fret or what the scale length should be. The Jackson 6 that I own is a 25.5" scale, so having that for the high E wouldn't be bad, is the 3.125" fan from the 25.5" scale to the 28.625" scale too much you think?


That fan is quite easy to get used to. My personal preference is for the perpendicular fret to be at the octave. That way the fan isn't too extreme on either end.

I would recommend to those who want to make that leap to try playing a 28.625" scale guitar if you can find one. You can always put a capo on the 3rd fret of a bass to see what kind of a stretch you'll be dealing with.


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## Qucifer (Aug 27, 2009)

You guys are stressing over something that really isn't that big of a deal.

3" of fan on an 8-string guitar, with a perpendicular at the 9th or 7th is really comfortable and I'm sure most players would adapt in minutes.


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## Hollowway (Aug 27, 2009)

Qucifer said:


> You guys are stressing over something that really isn't that big of a deal.
> 
> 3" of fan on an 8-string guitar, with a perpendicular at the 9th or 7th is really comfortable and I'm sure most players would adapt in minutes.


 
I'm sure you're right. I can't tell you how worried I was about adapting to the 28.625" length with the first Intrepid I got, and I adapted with next to no effort.

So anyway, I'm no longer stressing about the fan scale. Now I JUST WANT TO BUY ONE!!!! WHO WILL TAKE MY MONEY IN EXCHANGE FOR A FANNED 8?!!

Ok, I'm calmed back down again.


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## Qucifer (Aug 27, 2009)

Hollowway said:


> I'm sure you're right. I can't tell you how worried I was about adapting to the 28.625" length with the first Intrepid I got, and I adapted with next to no effort.
> 
> So anyway, I'm no longer stressing about the fan scale. Now I JUST WANT TO BUY ONE!!!! WHO WILL TAKE MY MONEY IN EXCHANGE FOR A FANNED 8?!!
> 
> Ok, I'm calmed back down again.





I bought my Oni without having ever played a fanned-fret instrument. I had no idea to what to expect about getting comfortable and adapting to it. It was a really cool feeling being comfortable with it within minutes.

If Kurt comes out with a fanned 8, I will almost certainly buy one. I've got a Septor 827, and it's awesome. It's even more awesome when you factor in the price.


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## meganutt7 (Aug 27, 2009)

I own an 8 string guitar/bass hybrid... it's a fanned fret instrument and is actually what Ralph Novak (the guy who got the patent on fanned frets) originally designed it for, as I understand it, while working with Charlie Hunter.... So my instrument is not a shred machine, per se... it's not all 8 strings going into one amp with mad distortion or anything.. basically the wa ythis thing is supposed to be played is the thumb plucks basslines and the remaining fingers hit chords or melodies/solos in the higher registers of the guitar strings... It's SUPER HARD to get the coordination.. 

As far is intonmation, the fanned frets really do seem to make everything be PERFECTLY in tune all over the neck....

As far as playability, especially on this guitar, where the fanning is pretty extreme, it does make things a bit difficult.

If yo uwant to hear me playing this thing, I havea track on my myspace page called "Paradigm", where the bass line and the guitar comping are both played simultaneously on this beastly thing....


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## XEN (Aug 28, 2009)

Qucifer said:


> I bought my Oni without having ever played a fanned-fret instrument. I had no idea to what to expect about getting comfortable and adapting to it. It was a really cool feeling being comfortable with it within minutes.


It's an Oni. Nuff said. Dan rules.


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## MTech (Sep 16, 2009)

Hey guys I searched cause I thought the scale for a high a was widely discussed but I couldn't find anything to exactly answer my full question and I didn't want to start a new thread. So seeing as this is the newest that closely related I'm hoping for some good insight.... What scale/fan would be good to use for a 9 string so that one could achieve enough tension for the low F# but still be able to get a high A????


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## TomAwesome (Sep 16, 2009)

MTech said:


> Hey guys I searched cause I thought the scale for a high a was widely discussed but I couldn't find anything to exactly answer my full question and I didn't want to start a new thread. So seeing as this is the newest that closely related I'm hoping for some good insight.... What scale/fan would be good to use for a 9 string so that one could achieve enough tension for the low F# but still be able to get a high A????



If you don't mind ordering special strings from octave4plus, then pretty much whatever you want depending on your tastes. For regular strings, I'm not sure, but the scale on the top end would probably have to be pretty short. I'm thinking 22"-23", but I wouldn't really know since I just use O4+ strings for my high A needs.


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## MTech (Sep 16, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> If you don't mind ordering special strings from octave4plus, then pretty much whatever you want depending on your tastes. For regular strings, I'm not sure, but the scale on the top end would probably have to be pretty short. I'm thinking 22"-23", but I wouldn't really know since I just use O4+ strings for my high A needs.



Yea that's what I'd like to know, what you're need to use normal strings. Using a 7 now that's B 56g then F# to F# 8-38g and looking into a 9 to keep the low and add the high. I've seen guys have no problem with a 23.5 but then other people are saying you'd have problems with that so idk????


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## Hollowway (Sep 17, 2009)

Well, one thing you could do is take your current 25.5" guitar and tune the .008 up to G. According to the String Guage and Tension Calculator - Version 0.1.4 - 26 apr 1998 calculator, the G is 14.7 lbs and the G# is 16.5 lbs. A 23.5" guitar would be 15.7 lbs at high A. So if you are comfortable with the feel of the G, you might be able to get away with the 23.5" and an .008.


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## Shredcow (Sep 17, 2009)

I've recently played a 23.5 - 25.5 fan 8 string guitar stringed with a high A.

The high A was a 0.07". Then a set of .10s.

I thought the high A felt alright, if not a little fragile. The rest of the guitar was a joy to play!


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## Paje (Sep 19, 2009)

I love my fanned-fret acoustic (6-string, pics attached). I've a custom 7-string fanned fret electric in the works (I'm here researching 7-string pick-ups compatible with fanned frets). Regarding playability, it's actually easier imho due to the more uniform tension across the strings. It also handles drop tunings better... really low tunings without "slack" becoming an issue.

Cheers,
Paje


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## liamh (Sep 19, 2009)

^ That guitar is stunning.


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## TomAwesome (Sep 19, 2009)

^ Agreed.


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## Hollowway (Sep 19, 2009)

^ Yeah, what is that? Can you give us a little history/info on it?


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## ElRay (Sep 19, 2009)

meganutt7 said:


> Ralph Novak (the guy who got the patent on fanned frets)



Novak did not patent fanned frets, compound scale instruments, multi-scaled instruments, slapyed frets, etc.. He patented one flawed method for laying out the frets, which he never used, nor taught, because it only works with straight sided fretboards. He did Trademark the label "Fanned Fret" and hired a business manager who extorted/conned licensing fees from many luthiers because they either didn't know, or didn't want to fight a lawsuit that they actually would have won.


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## Paje (Sep 19, 2009)

Hollowway said:


> ^ Yeah, what is that? Can you give us a little history/info on it?



Thanks (to all) &, yes, happy to provide more info on it (even tho it's not a 7-string, lol!). That is a custom acoustic I ordered from Batson Guitars. Here are the specs:

Model: Grand Concert
Soundboard: Sinker Redwood 
Back & Sides: Myrtlewood 
Neck: Maple 
Binding, Bevel & Back-Plate: Curly Claro Walnut
Fretboard: myrtlewood with fanned frets
Frets: Radial*
Bridge &TailPiece: Ebony
Tuners: Gotoh super 510 (18:1) in Black Chrome w/ebony pegs
Saddle & Nut: Fossilized Walrus Ivory 

That's about all I can think of atm. Let me know if I can answer any other q's. Here's a little vid (youtube HD/720p format) of it in "action". 

Cheers,
Paje

*


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## Hollowway (Sep 20, 2009)

Nice looking instruments! Not cheap, but very well made.


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## xmetalhead69 (Sep 21, 2009)

Why do no stores sell fanned fret guitars? don't they realize that not everyone has the money to order customs?  So to those of you who have em, how are they for sweeps and shredding and the like? I feel like that would be a huge pain.


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## TomAwesome (Sep 21, 2009)

xmetalhead69 said:


> Why do no stores sell fanned fret guitars? don't they realize that not everyone has the money to order customs?



It's probably because they don't see nearly enough interest to put the R&D into an instrument that probably wouldn't sell that well outside of small niches like this one. I don't think most guitarists are even familiar with fanned fret instruments. Rondo Music is the only company I know of that has taken any interest in making a production fanned fret instrument, and the only reason that it's likely a gamble worth taking for them is that a fairly large percentage of their sales seem to be from members of this site.


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## Durero (Sep 21, 2009)

xmetalhead69 said:


> So to those of you who have em, how are they for sweeps and shredding and the like? I feel like that would be a huge pain.



I find them to be much more comfortable and easier to play on than straight frets.


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## Qucifer (Sep 21, 2009)

Durero said:


> I find them to be much more comfortable and easier to play on than straight frets.



Ditto.


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## xmetalhead69 (Sep 21, 2009)

Durero said:


> I find them to be much more comfortable and easier to play on than straight frets.


damn I need more money...


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## XEN (Sep 21, 2009)

Durero said:


> I find them to be much more comfortable and easier to play on than straight frets.


Agreed.


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## dpm (Sep 21, 2009)

Qucifer said:


> Ditto.



I'll ditto this ditto.


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## xmetalhead69 (Sep 21, 2009)

dpm said:


> I'll ditto this ditto.


Is that legal?


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## Paje (Sep 21, 2009)

Durero said:


> I find them to be much more comfortable and easier to play on than straight frets.



+1 More (apparent) uniform string-to-string tension with fretting following the natural arc of one's wrist angle and all the tonal benefits of multi-scale... seems such the natural and ideal implementation imho.

They had it right even back in the 16th century.


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## xmetalhead69 (Sep 21, 2009)

Paje said:


>



That might even be too many strings for the extended range forum.


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## Hollowway (Sep 21, 2009)

Paje said:


> +1 More (apparent) uniform string-to-string tension with fretting following the natural arc of one's wrist angle and all the tonal benefits of multi-scale... seems such the natural and ideal implementation imho.
> 
> They had it right even back in the 16th century.


 
I'd have failed them outright for not fanning the frets, but Ima let 'em slide for predating the Daisy Rock designs by a few hundred years.

Whatever the case is, I want a Rondo/Rotor fanned model NOW!!


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## Tom Drinkwater (Sep 22, 2009)

I like the 12th fret to be perpindicular and have no more than a 1.5" fan over 6 strings. My 10 string that I just built is 30" down to 27.5". That is pretty close. Now that you can buy strings for most tunings in most scale lengths from octave4plus the real benefit of the fan is ergonomics (depends on your posture) and the timbre of the string on various scales i.e. some people like the high tuned strings to be shorter and the longer scale strings to be longer. Of course one benefit is that it looks really cool too.


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## 6Christ6Denied6 (Mar 26, 2010)

how does doing barr chords or power chords like as far as sliding up or down with the fans feel, do you have to stretch or cramp your fingers when you go up or down?


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## bhh1989 (Jun 21, 2010)

How could you change where the perpendicular fret is? Wouldint the different scales determine where the frets go and at what angle they would happen to land at when working together?


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jun 21, 2010)

That would only be the case if they both started at the same point as in if the bridge were flat or the nut and then everything fanned from there. Instead everything fans away from the perpendicular fret but you can drastically change they way everything fans whichever way you wanna go.


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## ralphy1976 (Jun 22, 2010)

i have a thread on my new fanned if you want and i made a quick video.

i will post a video with sound sample and a bit of playing this week-end (i hope)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/sevenstring-guitars/122092-nfangd.html#post2024833


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## Umm_fish (Mar 19, 2012)

> Hey guys I searched cause I thought the scale for a high a was widely discussed but I couldn't find anything to exactly answer my full question and I didn't want to start a new thread. So seeing as this is the newest that closely related I'm hoping for some good insight.... What scale/fan would be good to use for a 9 string so that one could achieve enough tension for the low F# but still be able to get a high A????



I currently play a 23.5" scale length six string tuned in fifths: CGDAEB. At that length, I have no trouble getting a regular .008 up to that high B. No special alloy strings required, though you do have to get up to pitch a little slowly. I'm currently working on building a fanned fret instrument that will run 25-22" in order to hopefully get a little thicker B string as well as to give the low C a little more length.


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## stuglue (Mar 19, 2012)

Wow high B


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## guy in latvia (Mar 19, 2012)

holy ressurection, the dead walk again :O


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## mountainjam (Mar 19, 2012)

Taking a stroll down hollowways memory lane. I think its safe to say hes played a fan fret by now.


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## Hollowway (Mar 19, 2012)

^Haha, suffice it to say that if I ask a question on here it's a prelude to getting an instrument with whatever the question was about! 

@umm fish: pics or it didn't happen! Let us see that short scale 6.


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## VBCheeseGrater (Mar 19, 2012)

TomAwesome said:


> I don't think most guitarists are even familiar with fanned fret instruments.



I've been playing close to 20 yrs, and was trying to figure out how a multi scale would even work fretwise when i heard about it on this site - then i saw the pictures...so yeah, you are right on that one.


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