# Music and race: quick discussion (keep it lighthearted and friendly, folks)



## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

ok, so about 5 minutes ago, the girl across from my cubicle just called to have a conversation with me.

"oh, so you play dat rock? so you like a white boy"
I explained to her that i play way more styles than one and that i don't even play rock music.

but she continued to state that i wished i was white.

she drew up a chart that "hip hop, r&b and rap is for black people" and that "rock, metal and all that other 'noise' is for white people", and that thats just "the way things are" this is also after i PROVED to her that bo diddley and Chuck berry more or less started rock, meaning it's not a "black or white" thing.

brought up the Late Great Michael Jackson and his love for metal guitars and rock sounds and she goes " oh, well his producers picked that, he aint want it"

as i type this, she's calling me asking why i'm not talking anymore. it's obvious this conversation is going nowhere because she thinks what she's going to think

i feel the same way about people who go te "rap is crap" direction because there are so many amazing lyricists who can put most metal bands down in terms of lyrical dexterity and dynamic delivery.

and let's not forget how many black dudes i see in metal and how many white dudes i see rapping.

i pretty much told her that she's racist and went back to my cube and started working (and typing this)

so let's have a little discussion, though (hopefully) i know the forum's consensus here:

how do you feel about "race roles" in music?

is rock/metal a "white thing"?

do all black peopl know how to play bass?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 26, 2010)

Honestly, if that's actually how she spoke, I wouldn't care what she said. If she can't speak properly, who knows how she thinks.


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## Rick (Jul 26, 2010)

1. There are none.
2. No.
3. I have no idea.


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

Rick said:


> 1. There are none.
> 2. No.
> 3. I have no idea.


I could not possibly love you more right now than if you started plugging carthage, Rick, seriously, I'm having a bro moment. ;-;

but yeah, I dunno, the girl is just totally lacking common sense on the subject.

edit: 1400 POST! YAAAAAAAYYYYY


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## orb451 (Jul 26, 2010)

Ask her to kindly go back and listen to some Living Colour. Or Body Count for that matter. They didn't pick up guitars and a "rock sound" because of a producer... 

The girl you're talking about sounds like a "Grade A" moron if she really believes that music has or should have, racial boundaries


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

i dont think she means boundaries, but i think she's using sheer numbers to claim that something is fact.

that's like saying that only germans live in germany because ALMOST everyone that lives there is german.


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## Scar Symmetry (Jul 26, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Honestly, if that's actually how she spoke, I wouldn't care what she said. If she can't speak properly, who knows how she thinks.



This, she doesn't sound like she's very intelligent or thought about it for longer than 5 seconds, so I wouldn't worry too much about what she thinks about anything let alone music.


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## orb451 (Jul 26, 2010)

Well to be honest it just sounds like stereotyping to me then. The line of thinking that goes something like: "I'm Black, most of the people I'm around are Black, most of the people I'm around who are Black, also listen to Rap, Hip-Hop and R&B, therefore, that's what 'I' should be listening to..." and so on.

Sure large numbers of Blacks listen to Rap and Hip-Hop, but to say they all *should* or that they *only* listen to that seems a bit wrong... on her part that is. I'm Latino, does that mean I should only listen to Cumbia because *most* Colombians probably do?


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## SD83 (Jul 26, 2010)

xiphoscesar said:


>


I totally agree with Rick, however, it is a question of the group of people with which you grow up. From what I see (since my gf works at the bar in one of the smaller clubs in town), you hardly see a black person at the metal parties, while the percentage on reagga parties is far above average
So if you don't reflect on what you see, you might get to the false conclusion that the reason is "race"...


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## Evil7 (Jul 26, 2010)

Eminem is a fucking lyrical / rap genius.
I really fucking dig Hed pe and other rap/metal mixed bands.

She was a narrow minded person, stuck in the old days of racism. IMO
I love it when another Race does music not typical of their race.
I checked out this band last weekend...
You can tell this woman loves what she is doing.


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

as someone who goes to pretty much most parties / performances/ shows across the board fro mhip hop to club to go-go to deathcore and everywhere in between, i gotta tell you, she's so fucking wrong.

i see plenty of black people at metal shows in baltimore.

now, i don't see a lot of white kids at club nights, but that's a different situation, because it's the inner city, and only the people that live NEARBY go, so thats not a race thing, but no, she's saying it's a racial thing.
oh, and update:

apparently all the black people that go to metal shows are the "weird ones"

yeah, I'm popping in my iPod and working now. she's stereotyping hard as a bitch.


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## Necris (Jul 26, 2010)

Rick said:


> 1. There are none.
> 2. No.
> 3. I have no idea.


 
This.
Music isn't about racial boundaries, its not a Black thing or a White thing and clearly ignorance isn't either.


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

Necris said:


> clearly ignorance isn't either.


 
one thing I love about "my people":

a lot of the kids i work with annoy me so much because they are SO racist but seem to think that because they're black they're immune to being racist.


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## Evil7 (Jul 26, 2010)

see you're weird now for not being racist. lol


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

Evil7 said:


> see you're weird now for not being racist. lol


 yup.

i must wanna be a white boy


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## silentrage (Jul 26, 2010)

Can you please smack her for me, for causing you to type this story and waste 5 minutes of my life? Smack her in the face and tell her she's as smart as a bag of hammers.

And no more threads about fucking morons, unless it's for a laugh.

Thanks.


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

silentrage said:


> Can you please smack her for me, for causing you to type this story and waste 5 minutes of my life? Smack her in the face and tell her she's as smart as a bag of hammers.
> 
> And no more threads about fucking morons, unless it's for a laugh.
> 
> Thanks.


this IS for a laugh.

and a discussion.

but sure, I'll smack the black off of her.

oooooooooh, see what i did there.


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## ENGLShred7 (Jul 26, 2010)

TreKita said:


> this IS for a laugh.
> 
> and a discussion.
> 
> ...


 
Heh heh...I see what ya did thar..but yeah man, what she's saying is incredibly ignorant. Put simply, music is colorblind. If you're listening to someone on a record, there's no way to tell the color of their skin.
Sure, maybe it's the common belief that white boys can't rap and should stick to shredding...but then you've got guys like Vinnie Paz and Rugged Man, who are amazing. At the same time, there's been tons of phenomenal black metal/rock guitarists, Tosin Abasi, Greg Howe (mixed I think?), HENDRIX just to add a few to the ones you mentioned.

I can't believe anyone would say something like that..it's basically stereotyping yourself


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

ENGLShred7 said:


> Heh heh...I see what ya did thar..but yeah man, what she's saying is incredibly ignorant. Put simply, music is colorblind. If you're listening to someone on a record, there's no way to tell the color of their skin.
> Sure, maybe it's the common belief that white boys can't rap and should stick to shredding...but then you've got guys like Vinnie Paz and Rugged Man, who are amazing. At the same time, there's been tons of phenomenal black metal/rock guitarists, Tosin Abasi, Greg Howe (mixed I think?), HENDRIX *(...and me! my album was GOLD)* just to add a few to the ones you mentioned.
> 
> I can't believe anyone would say something like that..it's basically stereotyping yourself


 
oh, yes, I just tooted my own horn. yeeeeah baby.

and i know, she's on the other cubicle of an OFFICE building, loud as shit.

ridiculous. :/

oh well, I'm off for today, going home.


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## jymellis (Jul 26, 2010)

TreKita said:


> 1,i feel the same way about people who go te "rap is crap" direction because there are so many amazing lyricists who can put most metal bands down in terms of lyrical dexterity and dynamic delivery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
1. i dont like rap, but i also dont listen to most music for lyrical content

2. i am native american and listen to classical,jazz,metal,rock, (everything but RAP lol) so i kind of shot that whole music=race thing down the shitter


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## silentrage (Jul 26, 2010)

TreKita said:


> this IS for a laugh.
> 
> and a discussion.
> 
> ...



Well you and I must have different senses of humor because it made me foam at the mouth with rage.


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## budda (Jul 26, 2010)

this thread makes my head hurt.

my dad doesn't understand why i like metal so much or why I have tattoos or have my lip pierced, hell I don't entirely get it either. I grew up in a predominantly white community *but in middle school we listened to rap and pop, and most of my friends listen to at least half rap/hip hop[b/] out of those I went to high school with. Very few of my friends listen to metal  - and the ones that do don't necessarily listen to the same bands. I have become close-minded towards rap, hip hop and R&B but I love a good alicia keys song (she's PREGNANT now!) or some well-written wrap a la some Eminem songs. I just haven't heard a whole lot that I like.

Maybe I should talk to my guitarist friends who also throw on rap songs on their ipods *


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## poopyalligator (Jul 26, 2010)

I never really thought of music as a race thing. Like rap and hip hop is predominantly african american people, but i dont think it should be limited to that. I dont care at all what race anybody is as long as the music sounds good.


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## Mr Violence (Jul 26, 2010)

There are absolutely no race roles in anything.

People choose to lump themselves in categories and stereotype themselves, and while being very ignorant, it's his or her choice. However, if he or she does this, I believe he or she forfeits his or her right to play the race card forevermore.

Smarter people will like music that they enjoy listening to. Dumber people will listen to what they think they're supposed to be listening to or what everyone else does. It's how the music business has made money for years. Yes, I'm insinuating that the majority of humanity is stupid.


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

Mr Violence said:


> There are absolutely no race roles in anything.
> 
> People choose to lump themselves in categories and stereotype themselves, and while being very ignorant, it's his or her choice. However, if he or she does this, I believe he or she forfeits his or her right to play the race card forevermore.
> 
> Smarter people will like music that they enjoy listening to. Dumber people will listen to what they think they're supposed to be listening to or what everyone else does. It's how the music business has made money for years. Yes, I'm insinuating that the majority of humanity is stupid.



why insinuate something that's been fact for centuries?


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## yacker (Jul 26, 2010)

Sorry but it was inevitable that this enter the thread at some point: 

*CARTMAN: Token, get your bass guitar out of your basement and meet me over my house.

TOKEN: What? we dont have a bass guitar.

CARTMAN: Your family is black Token, theres got to be a bass guitar in your basement somewhere.

IN THE REHEARSAL.

TOKEN: Hey there was a bass guitar in my basement.

CARTMAN: Told you Token.

BUTTERS: So What are we doing?.

CARTMAN: Gentleman, we are going to start a christian rock band. Butters give me a beat, ok nice, very nice, ok, Token give me the bass line.

TOKEN: I dont know how to play bass...

CARTMAN: Token, how many times do we have to go trough this, you are black, you can play bass.

TOKEN: Im getting sick or your stereotypes.

CARTMAN: Be as sick as you want, just give me a god damn bass line.

TOKEN: (Token plays a great bass line) GOD DAMN IT.*

A youtube video would have been far more entertaining to post, but south park doesn't like the noise music that youtube listens to.


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## yacker (Jul 26, 2010)

double post


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 26, 2010)

to #3, yes!

I have proved it by getting my friend to start playing (5 string ) bass. His inner bassist is already taking over!


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## ENGLShred7 (Jul 26, 2010)

TreKita said:


> oh, yes, I just tooted my own horn. yeeeeah baby.
> 
> and i know, she's on the other cubicle of an OFFICE building, loud as shit.
> 
> ...


 
Haha ofcourse . I enjoy your album on a regular basis .


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## Triple-J (Jul 26, 2010)

First off I don't know if any of you have seen it but you might want to watch a documentary called Afro-punk it's an awesome movie which talks about the role of black people in rock and how they are seen in mainstream black/white culture click this link and you can watch it for free. Watch Afro-Punk Online Here | African American Movies Online | Black Movies Online

It's a messed up issue on both sides of the fence really as I've had black people look at me funny for being into rock music and when I go to gigs I've had plenty of white people ask me for drugs cause they assume I'm not there for the music and I'm just a drug dealer there to sell pot/pills. 

The only thing that really pisses me off though is that I have dreads which for some absurd reason means that whenever I go to a rock/metal club I seem to attract flocks of idiots with skanky Nu-Metal style birds nests on their heads constantly asking me for hair advice. 

I think people have this weird notion of race = music because no one has a clue about musical history anymore and that a lot of black rock innovators have been written out of history, for example the history books tell us that during the 50's rock and roll was 100% created by Elvis and they ignore artists such as Chuck Berry and Little Richard which is total bullshit.


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## orb451 (Jul 26, 2010)

Triple-J said:


> ...for example the history books tell us that during the 50's rock and roll was 100% created by Elvis and ignore artists such as Chuck Berry and Little Richard which is total bullshit.



Not sure which history books you've seen that had that in it, but that's atrocious. All the books and music history I've run across, as far as rock is concerned, have ALWAYS noted that Rock n' Roll started with the Blues. People like Jelly Roll Morton, Robert Johnson, Elmore James, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, and thousands of other Black artists helped lay the foundation for Rock and later Metal, not to even touch upon their influence in Jazz and how far that has spread.


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## The Somberlain (Jul 26, 2010)

1. Quincy Jones is black and he was Michael Jackson's producer.
2. I can listen to Rai, then Black Metal, then Gyotu Monks, then Rap, no problem.
3. I'm half Egyptian, half white. Where does this black and white concept leave mixed race peeps and other races?


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

Triple-J said:


> First off I don't know if any of you have seen it but you might want to watch a documentary called Afro-punk it's an awesome movie which talks about the role of black people in rock and how they are seen in mainstream black/white culture click this link and you can watch it for free. Watch Afro-Punk Online Here | African American Movies Online | Black Movies Online
> 
> It's a messed up issue on both sides of the fence really as I've had black people look at me funny for being into rock music and when I go to gigs I've had plenty of white people ask me for drugs cause they assume I'm not there for the music and I'm just a drug dealer there to sell pot/pills.
> 
> ...


i have seen afro-punk.

an amazing documentary.

speaking of people scoring drugs:

i had a midget at a show - the band is called nassau chainsaw -- ask me if i was holding. he was already drunk out of his mind.

the shit that i have seen....


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## Stealthdjentstic (Jul 26, 2010)

Mike Smith of Suffocation, nuff said. Maybe this chick is mildly retarded? Actually forget maybe...


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## leftyguitarjoe (Jul 26, 2010)

I am the whitest person on earth, and I actually listen to more rap than some black friends of mine.

All musical racial stereotypes are false.


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 26, 2010)

Slap her, and tell her thats what its like to facepalm, so she shouldn't be so closed minded then so many people wouldn't have to facepalm themselved when they hear her spewing shit.

Also I'm listening to Sean Paul, guess that means I wish I was Jamaican.



yacker said:


> Sorry but it was inevitable that this enter the thread at some point:
> 
> *CARTMAN: Token, get your bass guitar out of your basement and meet me over my house.*
> 
> ...


 
I fucking love that scene.


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## Triple-J (Jul 26, 2010)

orb451 said:


> Not sure which history books you've seen that had that in it, but that's atrocious. All the books and music history I've run across, as far as rock is concerned, have ALWAYS noted that Rock n' Roll started with the Blues. People like Jelly Roll Morton, Robert Johnson, Elmore James, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, and thousands of other Black artists helped lay the foundation for Rock and later Metal, not to even touch upon their influence in Jazz and how far that has spread.



I think that musicians know that but your average joe doesn't cause mainstream media pushes Elvis as being some kind of god and portrays someone like Chuck Berry as a mere footnote in Rock n Roll but tbh I feel part of that's down to the fact that there's a huge industry using the name of Elvis to sell stuff whereas Chuck and many other artists of that era don't have that type of corporate weight behind them. 




TreKita said:


> i had a midget at a show - the band is called nassau chainsaw -- ask me if i was holding. he was already drunk out of his mind.
> 
> the shit that i have seen....



You should have turned the tables on the midget and asked him if he could hook you up with some Wonka bars.


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## stryker1800 (Jul 26, 2010)

I work with a lot of black people from the bad neighborhoods of my town and one dude from Springfield Massachusetts, and I've found that race and music isn't really the issue it's generally more of a not understanding my extreme metal and how i can go from that to Kool Keith without a second thought. I enjoy a large portion of what they listen to and they tolerate most of and occasionally enjoy some of my music. It should be noted that we've worked together for a couple years and are comfortable enough to make light hearted situational racist jokes at each other.


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## Explorer (Jul 26, 2010)

*huge facepalm about the whole situation*

I'd had white girls tell me that they love black guys, and then, when describing what they like about them, it's always about being gangsta. They just couldn't picture someone who wasn't gangsta being black, and accused people who actually spoke clearly or who didn't wear their pants around their knees as just Tomming. WTF? 

At one party, I was telling some friends of mine about how I was at this place downtown, and how I had seen all these white chicks flocking all over these Latino guys who spoke poor English and who were wearing gold chains. I said that I should probably start dressing that way and adopt an accent in order to score with women who have that image of Latinos. This one chick (WASP, monolingual and all about social justice as she saw it) who I didn't know started berating me, telling me that I would never understand the Latino experience. Whatever, I said, but my friends were much amused.

Later at that same party, there was this girl from Brazil there. I was talking to her (speak Portuguese poorly, but Spanish and Portuguese are mutually understandable to a point), and the girl who said I'd never understand what it was like to be a Latino asked someone behind me how I knew this other language. He told her that I was Mexican, but that most people don't know that because their stereotype of Mexicans is that they all speak poor English and have funny accents, and they can't imagine that Mexicans might have educations and be capable of speaking two or more languages. "You mean he's Latino?!" Everyone busted out laughing at her, and she hit the road soon after. *laugh*

----

I remember going to go-go shows in DC. I pass, so I looked like a marshmallow in a cup of Swiss Miss cocoa. No one ever gave me a hard time for being at the shows, but how can you hate when at Rare Essence or Trouble Funk? "Pump-pump-pump-pump me up!" *laugh*

----

Fuck, man. Stereotyping can be funny, and I can understand that girl at your work just tossing Hendrix out as bullshit and not important to rock and roll, purely due to her massive and willful ignorance. Tell her that, and tell her that all black people don't have to be gangsta to be black. Are her dad and mom into rap? If not, what the f*** is wrong with them? 

Honestly, though, if she does this constantly, tell Human Resources. If someone, regardless of race, were to say that I should only eat tacos because I'm Mexican, I'd definitely complain. Similarly, if someone were telling you that you should be eating fried chicken and watermelon instead of pizza because you're black, that's creating a hostile work environment by insisting on stereotypes. Document it, tell HR, and then move on. If she can't learn to STFU, that's on her, and you don't need to tolerate her ignorance.

Incidentally, I think that funk bass goes well with metal. I'm glad you're helping to bring that element to the mix. 

(Awww! Dude, I'm sorry, but I just couldn't resist after all the BS! Glad I'm not in Arizona, or you might have the cops boot my ass across the Rio Grande! *laugh*)


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## kung_fu (Jul 26, 2010)

TreKita said:


> brought up the Late Great Michael Jackson and his love for metal guitars and rock sounds and she goes " oh, well his *producers* picked that, he aint want it"



Quincy Jones? Not exactly a white boy .


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## TreWatson (Jul 26, 2010)

Explorer, WOAH, lol pwn't


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## josh pelican (Jul 27, 2010)

Stealthtastic said:


> Mike Smith of Suffocation, nuff said.


 
One of the first people I thought of... not to mention THAT HUGE BLACK GUY that does vocals for Oceano.


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## TreWatson (Jul 27, 2010)

josh pelican said:


> One of the first people I thought of... not to mention THAT HUGE BLACK GUY that does vocals for Oceano.


Adam is great too.

in carthage, Both guitarists ( me and Ian) and the bassist (brendon)are black

God Forbid.

Living color

Bad brains

the list goes on for eons


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## Sang-Drax (Jul 27, 2010)

The only musical aspect I can totally associate with race is the voice, which usually holds a distinct quality depending on whether it's a white or black person singing. 

While occasionaly we see people like the previous Tesseract singer (don't know his name) and Joe Cocker, both sounding the opposite of their ethnic tradition, I suppose it's usually possible to know the singer's color by hearing it.

Otherwise, cultural aspects obviously have a larger impact on the definition of the average listener of a given musical genre than the ethnicity. Depending on which country you're in, there might be a coincidence between culture and race. There's almost none in Rio, FWIW.


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## TreWatson (Jul 27, 2010)

Sang-Drax said:


> The only musical aspect I can totally associate with race is the voice, which usually holds a distinct quality depending on whether it's a white or black person singing.
> 
> While occasionaly we see people like the previous Tesseract singer (don't know his name) and Joe Cocker, both sounding the opposite of their ethnic tradition, I suppose it's usually possible to know the singer's color by hearing it.
> 
> Otherwise, cultural aspects obviously have a larger impact on the definition of the average listener of a given musical genre than the ethnicity. Depending on which country you're in, there might be a coincidence between culture and race. There's almost none in Rio, FWIW.


 that's incredibly interesting.

especially considering what I have seen.


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## Customisbetter (Jul 27, 2010)

If im in a mostly-black group and im getting strange looks, I just smile because i realize they are more uncomfortable than i am.


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## nojyeloot (Jul 27, 2010)

SD83 said:


>



Absolutely sweet...

Wicked Wisdom&#39;s OFFICIAL Myspace Page on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads


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## TreWatson (Jul 27, 2010)

indeed.

also, Ed:

i will end you.


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## Customisbetter (Jul 27, 2010)




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## Sang-Drax (Jul 27, 2010)

TreKita said:


> that's incredibly interesting.
> 
> especially considering what I have seen.



What do you mean?


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## Randy (Jul 27, 2010)

TreKita said:


> "oh, so you play dat rock? so you like a white boy"
> 
> "hip hop, r&b and rap is for black people"
> 
> ...



Is that really the way she speaks? 'he ain't want that?' and 'so you like a white boy?' Because if so, I'd have to choke a bitch.


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## gunshow86de (Jul 27, 2010)

Rick said:


> 1. There are none.
> 2. No.
> 3. Yes. Even if they think they can't, put a bass in their hands and you've got instant funk.



Fixed.


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## scottro202 (Jul 27, 2010)

gunshow86de said:


> Fixed.



I've seen black people with HORRIBLE sense of rhythm. Therefore, I don't believe all black people can automatically play bass.

Just because your races "stereotypical" music is mostly drums, DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE A FUCKING SENSE OF RHYTHM!!!


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## TreWatson (Jul 27, 2010)

Sang-Drax said:


> What do you mean?


 I've see na large number of Whitye singers that have very thick, afro-centric sounding voices...

...doing metal.

it's liek they all stole from the Howard jones school.

i love howards voice more than any clean vocalist, but i'm just saying.

shit's odd.


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## orb451 (Jul 27, 2010)

Randy said:


> ...Because if so, I'd have to choke a bitch.



Is that you Wayne Brady????

And on the subject of race and how one sounds vocally, let us not forget the great Rick Astley of RickRoll fame. When people first heard him and that wretched song of his, *some* were pretty damned surprised that that sound was coming from a scrawny white guy. 

I wonder what ever happened to that guy?


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## TreWatson (Jul 27, 2010)

Randy said:


> Is that really the way she speaks? 'he ain't want that?' and 'so you like a white boy?' Because if so, I'd have to choke a bitch.


 yes, randy.

being that we share the same birthday, i figured you sensed my plight and would post eventually. xD and you think like i did, but i'm in an office building, so restraint is required if i wanna keep makin this SWEET 900 dollar bi-weekly check ( even if it IS gone by the time i get it. :/ )


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## Randy (Jul 27, 2010)

TreKita said:


> restraint is required if i wanna keep makin this SWEET 900 dollar bi-weekly check


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## Origin (Jul 27, 2010)

Pretty sure Tosin slaps many stereotypes in the face in terms of musicianship/skin.


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## Triple-J (Jul 27, 2010)

orb451 said:


> And on the subject of race and how one sounds vocally, let us not forget the great Rick Astley of RickRoll fame. When people first heard him and that wretched song of his, *some* were pretty damned surprised that that sound was coming from a scrawny white guy.
> 
> I wonder what ever happened to that guy?



He's still around making music and still quite a celebrity here in the UK I only know this because I'm from Manchester which is where he comes from so on behalf of the people of Manchester I'd like to apologise to all of you here at SSorg for him ever getting a deal.

As for the idea of race = vocals this is sung by a short anemic looking ginger guy...

 

And this is sung by a 6,2 black guy...


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## thraxil (Jul 27, 2010)

It bears mentioning that rap is primarily marketed and sold to suburban white kids. If rap was really only for black people, Puff Daddy, Dr. Dre, and the rest wouldn't be millionaires.


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## groph (Jul 27, 2010)

Nah, not really.

Still, it's pretty obvious that rap/hip hop/R&B is predominantly black and the "noise" is predominantly white. From what I understand, black people pretty much invented blues which in turn invented rock. I'll just talk about metal for now.

I'd call metal a "white" genre to an extent but that's not to say that only white people can perform/listen. I'm saying this because pretty much all of the early metal bands were all-white, borrowing themes that are "white" (medieval war, Scandinavia, Vikings, respective folk elements, Christianity and anti-Christianity etc). Some of the music is pretty much about white people. Of course nowadays that's interpreted in the worst way possible, especially when it's white people trying to practice their culture (seriously, white people have culture, just because we don't dance around a fire in our home country doesn't mean we don't have a culture). Similarly, early blues would have been a "black" genre, same with hip hop as it grew out of black communities.

But then of course there is metal that is about things that really have nothing to do with race whatsoever and then obviously there wouldn't be any issues there.


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## Randy (Jul 27, 2010)

groph said:


> just because we don't dance around a fire in our home country doesn't mean we don't have a culture



Did you seriously just say that?


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## silentrage (Jul 27, 2010)

Well not surprisingly the people who are reputed to have the least culture is taking the the world with their apparent non-culture now, I'm of course talking about Hollywood and MTV culture, and this comes from a predominantly caucasian country.
I get so tired of hearing chinese ppl (or any other asian national) tout their 5000 years of culture while totally ignoring the fact that MTV is taking over the next generation and any number of things that were invented in the last 100 years, rock, rnb, techno, hip hop, are more popular than everything invented in the 4900 years before that. 
(Before you pounce on me for the above, I'll point out that I'm chinese so I'm allowed to make fun of them, or us... or whatever. ) 

So my point is, that's where the world is headed culture-wise, and I don't know who's behind the whole MTV / Hollywood business, maybe the jews? lol


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## TreWatson (Jul 27, 2010)

groph said:


> Nah, not really.
> 
> Still, it's pretty obvious that rap/hip hop/R&B is predominantly black and the "noise" is predominantly white. From what I understand, black people pretty much invented blues which in turn invented rock. I'll just talk about metal for now.
> 
> ...



thats arguably incorrect.

most of the bands that " pioneered" metal were psychedellic rock and Bluesrock, so Technically it attributes a lot of its roots to Blues and the black community, though that doesn;t make any kind of music a "black" or "white" thing.

.


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## DVRP (Jul 27, 2010)

Someone should show her God Forbid.....what she said was extremely ignorant. But then again I wouldn't expect any less really. A lot of the population are ignorant and narrow minded...its kind of sad tbh


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## TreWatson (Jul 27, 2010)

i showed her veil of maya today, she goes "see, thats white people music, aint no way a black person would wanna write that"

i showed her that the guitarist is marc okubo, who is 2 separate races, neither of them white.


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## Antimatter (Jul 27, 2010)

I don't believe in race roles at all. Race doesn't have any meaning to me except it helps describe what someone looks like.


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## Explorer (Jul 28, 2010)

Alright, y'all are cracking me up!

@Randy and Orb: I was dreading the same thing... is Randy gonna have to choke a bitch? *laugh* "Run, bitch! Get some help!"

@Silent Rage: My Cantonese is pretty much non-existent at this point, but when my friend (ABC/jook-sing) would talk about how long the Chinese would have culture, I did have enough vocabulary to say, "The candle which burns longest burns lowest." Man, would he go off! *laugh* 

@groph: the fu...? We dance around a fire in Mexico? Next you'll say that my ancestors would cut out the hearts of the worthy to sacrifice them to... oh, wait. They did. I just slipped up. I knew I should never have left the little town of Cucaramacatacatirimilcote to come to the US. 

(Note to those who have seen the telenovella "Aguamarina": yes, that's the place the guy always regrets having left. Quite a few of my Mexican ancestors actually come from Tix!cob!cob, just outside Merida. When you pronounce the name with the Maya accent, or speak any Mayan with the proper clicks, people freak out for some reason. "That doesn't sound like Mexican! I thought they spoke Mexican down there!" *laugh*)

----

There's quite a few dudes around here (black and white) who play music from all over Africa. You've got the ubiquitous Ethiopian jazz stuff, the Shona mbira and marimba stuff, all the kora players, and there's one dude (white) who plays this incredibly funky Zulu bass harp/drum thing. I don't even know if you could find this stuff on YouTube, but even having heard all this, I'm not sure I'd say that noise is purely a white European thing. 

I remember, though, when metal and punk were new, and the only places where there weren't black dudes in the scene was when there were racist a-holes (like when the neo-Nazi skinheads started embracing the punk scene or people claiming Aryan roots for metal). F 'em all, man. 

(I think I'm changing my location to Cucaramacatacatirimilcote... will that even fit? I guess I'll find out! *laugh*)


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## The Somberlain (Jul 28, 2010)

The irony of this is that my one friend who is a serious metalhead is Black...


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## Edika (Jul 28, 2010)

Just to add a few comments myself, as some posters before me wrote, music usually starts as a cultural social thing. Your initial music listens have to do with the environment you grow up and what is accustomed to this environment. Initially starts with family and as you grow older and you interact with the immediate social circle you get more stimulation from all around. If the music stimulus you have up to a certain age is of a certain culture that includes one or two genres of music then you are not aware of all the other music around. When humans come in contact with a new concept, that being a new kind of music or any other kind of knowledge, their initial reaction is to reject it. Then also comes the upbringing and education of each individual. If your curiosity and critical mind have been stimulated by your environment then you will give this new a information a chance to process it. Then it depends on how your aesthetic criteria has been developed in order to find something to your liking and continue to listen and enjoy it.

As you grow older and are not exposed to many genres of music your neural network is trained to enjoy certain kind of passages. In simpler terms the brain is used to listen to certain kind of sounds and combinations of music and it is difficult to accept something new. For me the biggest difference in terms of music philosophy is between western and eastern music. Especially western people can't actually comprehend the sense behind eastern music. You can learn the "rules" but it also has to do with a way of life and cultural thinking. Some western people manage to master this kind of music but it requires a different kind of way of thinking. Of course the same applies for the opposite. 

There are of course individuals that start in a certain cultural environment and end up listening to a variety of different kinds of music, or change completely their musical tastes in the course of their lifetimes. This has to do also with puberty, rebellion against the norm as the brain matures to adolescence etc etc (I can actually go for ever but again I will write a wall of text).

To give a personal example, I am Greek and don't like most of Greek music even though I have grown up in that environment and society. Since I was a baby I had a preference for more western songs and with a more rock attitude (electric guitar hehe). For the last 18 years I mostly listen to metal. I enjoy other kinds of music but I absolutely love the sound of a wall of electric guitars and the intensity of this music. In the beginning I was not able to listen to extreme vocals and I hated them. Now my brain is trained into listening growling vocals that at points I find clean vocals cheesy. At one point I was bored with this genre and started listening more to jazz and blues, but then my brain started craving for face melting guitars and pounding drums and bass.
I listen to other kinds of music but not as frequently as this genre of music. But I feel nowadays my musical cravings to shift also to eastern music (the cultural/heritage part of me). Not the cheesy and stupid kind of mixture they mostly do in Greece but the actual eastern music. So for people that have inquisitive natures it is possible to transcend stereotypes. Other people, like this woman, stay in the safety of their individual reality they have created and can not fathom anything that falls outside of that. For these people is something unimaginable and alien.


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## Variant (Jul 28, 2010)

> how do you feel about "race roles" in music?



*Aesop Rock is white... Mike Smith is black... The utter ownage delivered by either in their respective genres renders any argument as invalid. *



> is rock/metal a "white thing"?



*Nope. Racist attitudes about music are a result of racist attitudes about music. Fuck racists.*



> do all black people know how to play bass?



*Nope, but Token can. *


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## Daemoniac (Jul 28, 2010)

^ Token not only owns a bass, but can unconsciously lay down slick basslines


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## TreWatson (Jul 28, 2010)

Demoniac said:


> ^ Token not only owns a bass, but can unconsciously lay down slick basslines


And I'm terrible at them.

observe: (testing out the bass i just got)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4840052/Style%20test%201.mp3

anyway: Edika, your story is very similar to mine, except i listened to nothing but rap/hip-hop/R&B until i started learning guitar at 13, and my changes went from smooth jazz and started to transition to indie rock, then hard rock, then metal ( thank avenged sevenfold for most of that)


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 28, 2010)

it's not as much a race thing as it is a cultural thing. as most people know, the "black people" genres (as this woman defined it) came out of the slavery and oppression etc. there's not a whole lot of black people that know about their history from slavery and racism etc, and there's a strong cultural thing going on with the black identity and music and all this stuff. it's deeply rooted in the black culture. rock and metal CAME from black people's own music, but it was done by white people. they heard the amazing things that the black culture made, and took it. then it's been done mostly by white people through history, because they made their own thing out of the idea that black people made.

so yeah, it's true that music has been split between races for ages, and that's why people have that idea still, and the cultural divide is why it hasn't been mixed already.

that's how i think about it anyway.

now, black people are coming back to what they once created, which always makes me happy when i see it. in my mind, metal is such an open and purely human and emotional format that it shouldn't be divided by race or culture. i would love for it to be more accepted and used by everyone. sadly, people like that woman you talked about (who sounds amazingly ANNOYING btw, god i hate people like that. i post videos on youtube, so i've had many of those types of people come up to me with bullshit like that. argh!) are part of the reason why it's still like that. they're keeping the divide open.

anyway, i gotta go. interested to read back on this thread later


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## silentrage (Jul 28, 2010)

Well I also think for some people, probably a lot of the sso members, taste in music is kinda built in. I mean, I grew up in China, the country that produces so much shitty-ass 3rd hand regurgitated cheesy pop songs that it would solve world hunger if you could eat that shit. But I still fucking hated it, and I madly fell in love with the first real rock song I heard (technical difficulties), so *fuck you culture*, and *fuck you race*, I'll like what I want. 






I also don't drive a honda civic.


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## Edika (Jul 28, 2010)

silentrage said:


> I mean, I grew up in China, the country that produces so much shitty-ass 3rd hand regurgitated cheesy pop songs that it would solve world hunger if you could eat that shit.




I thought that was Japan 

Seems that China is not so far behind n cheesiness


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## silentrage (Jul 28, 2010)

That is japan, japan does 2nd hand popmusic regurgitation, china is 3rd hand...
well maybe 3.5hand because korea is slightly ahead in that area.


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## Rick (Jul 28, 2010)

This whole thing reminds me of an old Marsha Warfield bit. 

"I like white people, in fact, I thank God for white people. Because if it wasn't for white people, who would play lead guitar? You know we have more black swimmers than we have lead guitar players. And everyone knows black people can't swim. If we could, we wouldn't be here."


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## TreWatson (Jul 28, 2010)

Rick said:


> This whole thing reminds me of an old Marsha Warfield bit.
> 
> "I like white people, in fact, I thank God for white people. Because if it wasn't for white people, who would play lead guitar? You know we have more black swimmers than we have lead guitar players. And everyone knows black people can't swim. If we could, we wouldn't be here."


lol, WOW


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## Customisbetter (Jul 28, 2010)




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## signalgrey (Jul 28, 2010)

silentrage said:


> That is japan, japan does 2nd hand popmusic regurgitation, china is 3rd hand...
> well maybe 3.5hand because korea is slightly ahead in that area.



actually in defense of the korea, they have their own brand of tripe, they are 2nd hand these days. they used to copy Japan who copied the west, thus making korea 3rd hand. but Korea has gotten a little more original these days but they still follow the stylistic trends of the west.....plus the popstars are way hotter than the japanese and chinese chicks hahahaha.


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## MF_Kitten (Jul 28, 2010)

TreKita said:


> i showed her veil of maya today, she goes "see, thats white people music, aint no way a black person would wanna write that"
> 
> i showed her that the guitarist is marc okubo, who is 2 separate races, neither of them white.



show her animals as leaders and the tony danza tapdance experience!


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## silentrage (Jul 28, 2010)

signalgrey said:


> actually in defense of the korea, they have their own brand of tripe, they are 2nd hand these days. they used to copy Japan who copied the west, thus making korea 3rd hand. but Korea has gotten a little more original these days but they still follow the stylistic trends of the west.....plus the popstars are way hotter than the japanese and chinese chicks hahahaha.



Yeah, but their music and popstars still make me puke uncontrollably.
And they're only hotter because they got better plastic surgeons.


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## TreWatson (Jul 28, 2010)

MF_Kitten said:


> show her animals as leaders and the tony danza tapdance experience!


 just did.

she said AAL isnt metal or rock ( and i kinda agree, it's a serious fusion

and she thought the guitarist of danza was the drummer.

i lol'd.


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## Cancer (Jul 28, 2010)

In my lifetime I've gone from being only black person/nonwhite person at a stadium level metal concert (Judas Priest/Iron Maiden back in the 80's) to the Mayhemfest of today where every creed is more or less represented (not evenly mind you, but still).

My 2 cents, race roles, as well as gender roles, have largely been eliminated in rock and metal, it wasn't always that way, but it hasn't always been that way for a majority of the genres that were considered "underground". Anyone that tells you that any kind of music has to be split amongst racial liine is a noninformed idiot. Cultural lines yes, economic lines yes, purely racial, no, at least not in my experience.

Please note, there are exceptions, like genres that use racial separation as its kernel for being, like the Resistance Records stuff.


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## groph (Jul 28, 2010)

And here comes the neg rep.


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## silentrage (Jul 28, 2010)

signalgrey said:


> actually in defense of the korea, they have their own brand of tripe, they are 2nd hand these days. they used to copy Japan who copied the west, thus making korea 3rd hand. but Korea has gotten a little more original these days but they still follow the stylistic trends of the west.....plus the popstars are way hotter than the japanese and chinese chicks hahahaha.



Dude have you seen that chinese yoga instructor chick? omfgbbqbatman. 

edit:


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## groph (Jul 28, 2010)

Randy said:


> Did you seriously just say that?


 
Yeah, I did. What's wrong with dancing around a fire? I was just saying that it seems a lot of people don't acknowledge that white people have a culture. Dancing around a fire was merely an example of a non-white (to my knowledge at least) cultural practice. OH MY GOD! A STEREOTYPE!



TreKita said:


> thats arguably incorrect.
> 
> most of the bands that " pioneered" metal were psychedellic rock and Bluesrock, so Technically it attributes a lot of its roots to Blues and the black community, though that doesn;t make any kind of music a "black" or "white" thing.
> 
> .


 
And metal takes a bunch from classical music as well, which is as white as it comes. I wasn't trying to get down to the roots of metal, by your logic we might as well trace everything back to the first time someone tapped on a rock at a steady rhythm. If there existed a group of purple people who invented an entirely different genre of music that borrowed from absolutely nothing and sounded nothing like anything else, and only they listened to it and that's all they listened to, and it's what they identified themselves with, then that form of music would be "purple music". Obviously that situation is pretty much impossible, but for the most part, of course a type of music can be attributed to a race. Does this mean that other races can't listen to the music of other races? Where am/is I or anyone implying that?

Metal is pretty diverse so you can't really pin it on any one race (I'm not trying to say you're trying to pin anything on anyone, I'm just speaking generally), my point was that it's mostly white people playing metal for a mostly white audience. Obviously, like most things, there are tons of exceptions but still a general trend.


*DISCLAIMER*

I'm sure I'm about to be called a giant racist nazi, so go ahead and call me that. I'm just saying fuck it to white guilt and telling it like it is to the best of my ability.

Never was I trying to imply that only black people listen to rap and only white people listen to rock, and I'm really not trying to imply racism; this isn't a situation where racism would even apply.


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## Demiurge (Jul 28, 2010)

groph said:


> *DISCLAIMER*
> 
> I'm sure I'm about to be called a giant racist nazi, so go ahead and call me that. I'm just saying fuck it to white guilt and telling it like it is to the best of my ability.
> 
> Never was I trying to imply that only black people listen to rap and only white people listen to rock, and I'm really not trying to imply racism; this isn't a situation where racism would even apply.



I didn't think you were out of line. Race and race-related cultures exist- there's nothing racist about acknowledging that- and indeed certain types of music are associated with certain cultures.

Rock music is indeed considered "white" music by many, but with a stigma attached. Rock music's roots lie in the blues and there is the nasty, ever-present subtext regarding the allegation of "cultural theft" on the part of the white musicians who brought rock to the mainstream. I think from there came the notion that if one culture has to steal art from another, then that culture probably doesn't have much going for it.

I think that eventually we'll learn to untie musical genres from race, but we have to just let it happen and not force it (I'm looking at you, Kid Rock). People growing up now have the ability to listen to music way different than what their parents, their siblings, and their friends listen to so there won't be such a rigorous orthodoxy where certain musical styles belong to certain cultures. I mean, electric guitars and glitchy, electronica-style synths are finding their way into hip hop and sampled beats and more rhythmic vocal deliveries are becoming prevalent in rock. [/unfounded optimism]


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## Demiurge (Jul 28, 2010)

silentrage said:


> edit:



She puts the "Om" in Om-nom-nom.


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## silentrage (Jul 28, 2010)

Well here's a Om-nom-nom-bucket for ya
???? - Google Search


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## Waelstrum (Jul 28, 2010)

Edika said:


> I thought that was Japan









groph said:


> (seriously, white people have culture, just because we don't dance around a fire in our home country doesn't mean we don't have a culture)



'Round where I come from people dance around fires listening to techno at the beach, and they're white. 




Explorer said:


> Incidentally, I think that funk bass goes well with metal. I'm glad you're helping to bring that element to the mix.



Not to get off topic, but I've always thought that 'djent' sounded like distorted slap bass played on a guitar.


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## groph (Jul 28, 2010)

Waelstrum said:


> 'Round where I come from people dance around fires listening to techno at the beach, and they're white.


 
NOT MY POOOOIIIINNNNT!


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## Explorer (Jul 28, 2010)

Incidentally...

I was talking at work with some people, and someone casually said, "That rocks!" I'd say that the USA definitely has culture, and the fact that we can toss "rock" out as a verb so very easily is awesome.

Remember that scene in "Aliens" when the heavy gunner chick lets loose with sprays and yells, "Let's ROOO-O-O-O-O-OCK!"? That's what makes the USA so bad-ass.

*laugh*

I'm kidding about it being about guns, but at the heart of it, my culture revolves around rock and roll. There are so many genres and offshoots, including metal, and I think it's at the core of our outlook....


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## TreWatson (Jul 28, 2010)

true. roch is almost entirely based on 5ths which does constitute the "american sound" because it's very wide tonally


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## teqnick (Jul 28, 2010)

Wait Tre... This isn't you?


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## Variant (Jul 28, 2010)

^
On a related, but more serious note, Brother Ali is albino and a kick ass rapper to boot. 






Seriously, there are no boundaries in our generation. I don't know any slave owners, and I don't know any '50s producers that propped up white artists over black artists' efforts... they're all dead or in nursing homes. Fuck that ancient attitude, and fuck your co-worker. Tell her and her black-KKK mentality to check a fucking calender. 2010... it's two thousand and fucking ten. Seriously, show her my post. I only know a world of DIY'ers fighting the garbage corporate music system. My alliances are along those lines. Color and genre do not matter.


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## TreWatson (Jul 28, 2010)

I'll kill you, nick. don't sleep tonight, if you want to live.

and yes, I can't imagine how albinism really affects race, because it's just so far out there.


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## Variant (Jul 28, 2010)

TreKita said:


> I'll kill you, nick. don't sleep tonight, if you want to live.
> 
> and yes, I can't imagine how albinism really affects race, because it's just so far out there.



Ali said it aligned him with hip hop because a lot of white kids plain ostracized him more than the black ones. 

Looking back, I realize now that my adolescence was quite dysfunctional and largely fucked *probably* because I had long hair (I went to a very rural school), and that those stupid little bullshit aesthetics can lead to a lot of adversity. I'd say whites give me more shit about my hair than blacks do, and latinos more than whites. 

Mixed race people put up with some serious shit as well in varying degrees from different directions.


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## Randy (Jul 28, 2010)

Variant said:


> Mixed race people put up with some serious shit as well in varying degrees from different directions.





Welcome to my life.


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## Antimatter (Jul 29, 2010)

Randy said:


> Welcome to my life.


 
You are mixed race? May I ask, which ones?
Mixed race people are the coolest motherfuckers ever, I've never met one that wasn't completely awesome.


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## Randy (Jul 29, 2010)

Well, I mean, I am pretty awesome.  

My father's a white-dude through and through (Dutch, French and Scottish roots) and my mother's Trini (grandmother native to Trinidad and Tobago and grandfather from Mumbai). Growing up in the country and dating a girl from the South, I've been mistaken for light skinned black, hispanic, and middle eastern (with all the ethnic slurs to accompany each distinction, unfortunately). Just last week I got called "Saheem" by an angry dude in a bathroom because I wouldn't give him money to buy another drink for his already drunk ass. I got approached by a black guy in the parking lot at my office, looking for change to take the bus and when I stiffened up seeing him walk my way he says "Man, why is it that anytime a black guy walks up to a white dude he thinks they're trying to mug him or something?" So yeah... I get it from all sides.

As far as the rest of familly is concerned, I have 'white' family born and raised in the South, Korean family actually from Korea and living in NYC, and black (as in African) family living in Florida and throughout the Caribbean; along with every combination of those that you can think of. Sometimes my mother makes curry or something of that sort but when we're celebrating our "culture" you know what we usually do? Listen to rock/metal, eat steak/cheeseburgers/pasta salad and wave the red, white and blue.  Fuck, my mother turned my dad onto Black Sabbath and my father turned her onto Ravi Shankar. This whole "culturally this" or "culturally that" stuff based on race totally escapes me.

And to groph, I take offense to this 'white culture' 'black culture' stuff... hence why I extracted your quote. There are white people from Ireland... there are white people from Russia and there are white people from Croatia. All of them celebrate different things and have different traditions. The idea of a unified culture based on race is nonsense. I don't mean to hate on you, but I've heard enough of this "I'm sick of white guilt and being PC" stuff to last myself a few lifetimes... all of which (with the exception of you, since I don't know you) accompanied by an assortment of ignorant views and treatment of people based on a total overreaction to an implied 'racial disparity' from the 'other side'.


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## Antimatter (Jul 29, 2010)

Randy said:


> Well, I mean, I am pretty awesome.
> 
> My father's a white-dude through and through (Dutch, French and Scottish roots) and my mother's Trini (grandmother native to Trinidad and Tobago and grandfather from Mumbai). Growing up in the country and dating a girl from the South, I've been mistaken for light skinned black, hispanic, and middle eastern (with all the ethnic slurs to accompany each distinction, unfortunately). Just last week I got called "Saheem" by an angry dude in a bathroom because I wouldn't give him money to buy another drink for his already drunk ass. I got approached by a black guy in the parking lot at my office, looking for change to take the bus and when I stiffened up seeing him walk my way he says "Man, why is it that anytime a black guy walks up to a white dude he thinks they're trying to mug him or something?" So yeah... I get it from all sides.
> 
> As far as the rest of familly is concerned, I have 'white' family born and raised in the South, Korean family actually from Korea and living in NYC, and black (as in African) family living in Florida and throughout the Caribbean; along with every combination of those that you can think of. Sometimes my mother makes curry or something of that sort but when we're celebrating our "culture" you know what we usually do? Listen to rock/metal, eat steak/cheeseburgers/pasta salad and wave the red, white and blue.  Fuck, my mother turned my dad onto Black Sabbath and my father turned her onto Ravi Shankar. This whole "culturally this" or "culturally that" stuff based on race totally escapes me.


 
Man, that sucks, I live in the South right now so I know all about all that intolerance and whatnot 
And I agree with you on that last point, I don't see why culture should really make any barriers in music. Music is, in essence, a form of art, a way of expression. If you want to express yourself by putting sitars and ouds in a pop band, then more power to you.


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## TreWatson (Aug 2, 2010)

I have returned from otakon, and celebrating Japanese culture as the spy!



also, I saw something on TV sunday about Jamaican Chinese.

as in, they were of asian ( chinese) descent but Jamaican natives. and run a jamaican restaurant in the US.

pretty crazy.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 2, 2010)

tre - sometimes stupid ppl happen.


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## TreWatson (Aug 2, 2010)

it was actually pretty awesome, but def unusual.


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## Triple-J (Aug 2, 2010)

Randy said:


> And to groph, *I take offense to this 'white culture' 'black culture' stuff... hence why I extracted your quote. There are white people from Ireland... there are white people from Russia and there are white people from Croatia. All of them celebrate different things and have different traditions. The idea of a unified culture based on race is nonsense.* I don't mean to hate on you, but I've heard enough of this "I'm sick of white guilt and being PC" stuff to last myself a few lifetimes... all of which (with the exception of you, since I don't know you) accompanied by an assortment of ignorant views and treatment of people based on a total overreaction to an implied 'racial disparity' from the 'other side'.




That's a point I wish more people would understand as in the UK we have a racist political party called the BNP who are always talking about *"immigrants taking away our british culture!"* but the thing is that wherever you are in the UK the culture, slang, attitude, and even the food is totally different from elsewhere in the country and the idea of a British/English culture overall is pretty much non existent.


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## silentrage (Aug 2, 2010)

I thought british culture is mainly based on 2 things(according to the media), football, a chinese invention, and tea, another chinese invention.


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## Mattayus (Aug 3, 2010)

Don't forget Chinese food, punching women square in the face, and tracksuits.
Hang on, wait, Trek.. you're not white?


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## TreWatson (Aug 3, 2010)

mattayus, you knew i was black, you silly man.

well, mostly black. apparently a lot of my family on my mom's side up till recently was white and native american.

also, the girl Got fired today.

unrelated, but kinda made me lol


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## Customisbetter (Aug 3, 2010)

I think thats insanely related. high five!


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 3, 2010)

TreKita said:


> mattayus, you knew i was black, you silly man.
> 
> well, mostly black. apparently a lot of my family on my mom's side up till recently was white and native american.
> 
> ...


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## TreWatson (Aug 3, 2010)

Konfyouzd said:


>




it was mostly because she came late every day and never did her work, but DAMN yo.


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## gunshow86de (Aug 3, 2010)

It doesn't help when bands like Opeth are advocating segregation. Come on Mikael, can't you just share the water park with people of all races?


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## orb451 (Aug 3, 2010)

TreKita said:


> it was mostly because she came late every day and never did her work, but DAMN yo.



Wait, a black chick that comes to work late and doesn't do her job????  

I keed I keed I keed 

We need a good ol' fashioned racial stereotype thread so we can all have a good laugh .

Glad to hear they whacked her though


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 3, 2010)

silentrage said:


> I thought british culture is mainly based on 2 things(according to the media), football, a chinese invention, and tea, another chinese invention.



Football, like most sports, was actually invented by us 

Tea on the other hand is definitely Chinese.

As for our culture... we all have fucked up teeth and ride around on pennyfarthings calling each other 'ninnies'


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## gunshow86de (Aug 3, 2010)

^
Mustn't forget referring to cookies as biscuits. 'Tis a strange place, this land of Britain.


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## Scar Symmetry (Aug 3, 2010)

Oh no, we have cookies too.


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## orb451 (Aug 3, 2010)

Wish I could rep you Dave but it won't let me... laughing my ass off at "ninnies"


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## gunshow86de (Aug 3, 2010)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Oh no, we have cookies too.


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## TreWatson (Aug 3, 2010)

anytime the government fires you.


...oh shit guys, i think they killed her, lol.

i keed, i keed.


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## gunshow86de (Aug 3, 2010)

^
You really have to fuck up to get fired from a government job, especially if it's anything related to the DMV or Post Office. Those are the most "not givin' a fuck" people I have ever met in my life.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 3, 2010)

gunshow86de said:


> It doesn't help when bands like Opeth are advocating segregation. Come on Mikael, can't you just share the water park with people of all races?


 
Ridiculous...


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## gunshow86de (Aug 3, 2010)

^
I wish I could take full credit, but ;

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/126731-oh-dear-lord-i-love-this-opeth-content.html


EDIT:

Nice avatar btw; now don't make me send you back to Crenshaw Pete, with his hot coat hangers!


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## TreWatson (Aug 3, 2010)

it's social security, which is a bit more paramount than mail.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 3, 2010)

josh pelican said:


> One of the first people I thought of... not to mention THAT HUGE BLACK GUY that does vocals for Oceano.



Except Oceano isn't well respected


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## Antimatter (Aug 3, 2010)

gunshow86de said:


> It doesn't help when bands like Opeth are advocating segregation. Come on Mikael, can't you just share the water park with people of all races?


 
 Verrry clever


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## groph (Aug 10, 2010)

Randy said:


> Well, I mean, I am pretty awesome.
> 
> My father's a white-dude through and through (Dutch, French and Scottish roots) and my mother's Trini (grandmother native to Trinidad and Tobago and grandfather from Mumbai). Growing up in the country and dating a girl from the South, I've been mistaken for light skinned black, hispanic, and middle eastern (with all the ethnic slurs to accompany each distinction, unfortunately). Just last week I got called "Saheem" by an angry dude in a bathroom because I wouldn't give him money to buy another drink for his already drunk ass. I got approached by a black guy in the parking lot at my office, looking for change to take the bus and when I stiffened up seeing him walk my way he says "Man, why is it that anytime a black guy walks up to a white dude he thinks they're trying to mug him or something?" So yeah... I get it from all sides.
> 
> ...


 
Respect for that, seriously.

I KNOW this is a dead horse but I'm too stubborn and opinionated to not reply. I'm all for keeping this argument (race war lolol) as civil as possible and so far both of us have been pretty good.

I'm not sure where your offense is coming from, because there are distinct cultures amongst ethnic groups (I guess it's more accurate to use the word ethnic to avoid making things sound like blanket statements eg: LOL IM GROPH AND I SAY THAT ALL BLACK PEOPLE DANCE AROUND FIRES. HEIL HITLER!). I'm not sure where I was implying a unified culture based on race (I'll assume you mean skin color) per se, I only meant to point out that rock/metal is generally a "white" genre since it appears that most people who perform it and listen to it are white. My opinion is almost certainly skewed because I only know a handful of people who don't have European ancestry (or are non-white). 

To clarify things for you regarding the PC white guilt thing, even if you don't give a flying shit what my opinion is:

I happen to feel VERY strongly about "political correctness". While I don't advocate going around insulting every minority possible for the sake of it or mercilessly saying "Merry Christmas" to every Indian person you come across, I don't stand for other people telling me what I can and can't say. Freedom of speech is very, very important to me and I have the right to yell every racial slur in the book if I want to. Does that make me a giant moron if I did? Yeah, of course, but I still have the right to do so if I wanted (I don't). PC terms are just substitutes for other words that have the power to offend because that's what words are; they're abstractions of concepts, they're symbols. We could call a dog a cat, but the "cat" is still a dog (the animal we called a "dog" in the first place). The arrangement of letters is irrelevant. Many PC terms are also just stupid and clumsy, like "African American" which implies that if you're black you are from Africa and America even though there are no shortage of blacks in the Caribbean area and the majority of blacks in America or any other country were probably born there anyway. That's why I just say black if I want to physically describe the person, but "black" is un-PC. I don't care if I offend anybody, I don't mean to imply racism. People jump to that conclusion WAY too quickly if the speaker is a white person addressing a non-white.

Pretty much, being white, it is assumed that I am a racist and so anything that I say that even just mentions skin color or something else that is attributed to race/ethnicity is immediately interpreted in a hateful way, even (sometimes especially) by other white people. Also, being white, it is guaranteed that my parents are rich and were probably also slaveowners so that means that I am personally responsible for slavery and the state's oppression of blacks in the past, much in the same way that the two of us are personally responsible for the oppression of women because we're both men. We both have "male privilege" granted to us by The Man as a conspiracy to oppress and control women because they are an inferior sex. I'm sure you're well aware of what white guilt is, and I firmly believe that it is a real thing that just has to go. Races/ethnicities need to stop trying to get even and just start cooperating like normal people. Let the racists be racists, they're idiots. The media really doesn't help with the whole perpetuation of stereotypes and what have you. My prejudices (yeah I have a few, luckily I have a functioning brain which allows me to filter my thoughts and not act on these prejudices) are thanks to the media. If TV didn't exist I wouldn't be instantly intimidated by a 6'5 black guy in a basketball jersey with a backwards baseball cap (or for that matter, anybody dressed in that manner). Unfortunately the streets are full of these walking stereotypes who are actually dangerous so that's sort of a bad example.

tl;dr: People are different. Why does that have to imply that we have to be at each other's throats and hate each other because of these differences? Being white has some drawbacks, I like to say things, but not the things that you (not YOU) tell me to say.

EDIT: and about the "implied racial disparity from the other side", that's a bitch isn't it? I have to assume that the "other side" will think that I'm a racist so I have to act in such a way that "they" might catch onto and actually start questioning my actual thoughts about "them". I'd blame that one on the media too.


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## Rick (Aug 10, 2010)

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> You really have to fuck up to get fired from a government job, especially if it's anything related to the DMV or Post Office. Those are the most "not givin' a fuck" people I have ever met in my life.



A friend of mine works for the IRS here in Austin. He says that people have gotten in fist fights with their supervisors and NOT BEEN FIRED.


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## tacotiklah (Aug 11, 2010)

Even as a white guy I get stereotypes all the time. Maybe not so much on the music side, but I've had people insinuate that my family tree is a lot straighter than it should be, just because the area I live in is inhabited by some seriously redneck people.

As for music, people correctly assume that I'm a metalhead. However when people try to "classify" my drummer (who looks like the aforementioned redneck  ), they are shocked that instead of listening to just country music, he is into the heaviest of metal, classic rock, jazz, hip-hop (he makes his own beats on fruity loops all the time), hardcore, and pretty much most anything made outside of pop music.

Yeah, honkeys should only listen to country, drink themselves to death, and watch nascar.


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