# The HAARP Machine Megathread



## Scrubface05 (Oct 13, 2012)

Not sure why there isn't one yet, these guys deserve it.

Disclosure arrived at my door this morning, and all I can say is WOW.
Gimme dat Sitar!

In all seriousness, these guys are going to become a household name quickly.

Keep this thread open, no shitstorms or clusterfucks allowed.


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## gunch (Oct 13, 2012)

Mods closed the last one due to shitstorm


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## bhakan (Oct 13, 2012)

There already was one, but it was closed. As a warning to those who don't know, try an avoid resorting to the type of conversation at the end of this thread. 

I'm super excited for this album. All of the clips sound fantastic.


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## Mexi (Oct 13, 2012)

really looking forward to this release


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 13, 2012)

bhakan said:


> There already was one, but it was closed. As a warning to those who don't know, try an avoid resorting to the type of conversation at the end of this thread.



THIS.
Please keep this thread open, and restrain yourselves from acting like uneducated children/untrained monkeys/drunken dwarves.


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## ESP_ (Oct 13, 2012)

Any tasty solos?


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 13, 2012)

My new credit card would arrive the day pre-orderes stop

Really looking forward to this album and hopefully catching them live soon.


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 13, 2012)

So about that Faceless/HAARP Tour? Apparently the openers for certain days are already advertising it. Any news or rumors on that?


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## anomynous (Oct 13, 2012)

Well that would confirm it.......


But links?


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 13, 2012)

Assuming you're talking about the tour I mentioned. November 27th, right above The Sword, not to mention the band they're below 

Salt Lake City Concerts

Looks great, I hope they hit South Florida, I've been wanting to catch Revocation on tour, having them on that bill would make that date a sure fire YES for me.


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## anomynous (Oct 13, 2012)

Wait.......Faceless HAARP & Revocation?




I have to change my pants now.

Please be on a day I can go to in KC or StL.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 13, 2012)

Thats one hell of a lineup!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 13, 2012)

I thiught they had trouble getting to the US?


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## Glyph (Oct 13, 2012)

HAARP Machine!! WOOOOOO YEAHHHHHHH, my cat is chilling in my room anticipating the CD Release for these guys. I'm exited to see my cat hear this album, I'm expecting something crazy like the cat turn into a Lion or Phoenix, you know, no big deal


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## Fat-Elf (Oct 13, 2012)

I really would want to pre-order the album but the postal fees would be almost as much as the album itself and I already planned on using my this month's allowance on the new Medal of Honor. Hopefully it will hit Spotify so I can listen to it without downloading.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 13, 2012)

Aweful lot of hype for something you guys havent even heard


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## Fat-Elf (Oct 13, 2012)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Aweful lot of hype for something you guys havent even heard




Isn't that exactly what hype is? And we have already heard the Pleiadian Keys which was great.


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 13, 2012)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Aweful lot of hype for something you guys havent even heard



I made the thread because the album showed up to my doorstep a few hours ago


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## TIBrent (Oct 13, 2012)

Got the record this morning, blown away by it. It was even more different than I had expected, even having heard the demos & samples released prior, the songs flow nicely into one another but without the need for any between the songs dubstep jams. I was very impressed.
-Brent


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## anomynous (Oct 13, 2012)

TIBrent said:


> Got the record this morning, blown away by it. It was even more different than I had expected, even having heard the demos & samples released prior, the songs flow nicely into one another but without the need for any between the songs dubstep jams. I was very impressed.
> -Brent


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## gunch (Oct 13, 2012)

Extension to One is pretty damned sexy.


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## anomynous (Oct 13, 2012)

After first listen........the album's alright. I'm sure I'll like it more upon further listens.


Extension to One and Machine Over are clearly the best songs.


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## JosephAOI (Oct 13, 2012)

Esoteric Agenda, Lower The Populace, Disclosure, and Machine Over are mind blowing.


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## Housty00 (Oct 13, 2012)

This is a genuinely good album, but I have one gripe. The songs seem to blow right past you. You'll be listening to something one second, and right before you know it, BOOM. The song's over. Maybe it's just the " first listen jitters", but i can only describe it as "quick". But it DEFINITELY delivers.
Major props to Al'.


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## JosephAOI (Oct 14, 2012)

Anthony said:


> This album delivers. It lives up to every expectation I had.



This. My expectations got REALLY high with this album for some reason. It actually completely exceeds all of them. Incredible album.

My only gripes are that I wish it were longer and I don't like Semesky's take on The Escapist Notion probably cause I listened to the demo with the old singer too much


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## Housty00 (Oct 14, 2012)

Good lord, THE RIFFS. The intro to Extension to One, and 1:29 in the same song. I've been waiting for the 1:29 riff since I heard it on the studio update. That is straight INSANITY. Why can't he repeat them?! We're talking serious gold riffs, here. He just uses them once, never to be heard again. Such a shame.


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## JosephAOI (Oct 14, 2012)

FUCKING THE BRIDGE IN ESOTERIC AGENDA IS GODLY

"Open your eyes and see this world is not what it seems. Free your souls."


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## Prydogga (Oct 14, 2012)

Album of the year. Like all have said, it's lived up to my expectations and blown past them. I can't even imagine how good a 50+ minute followup would be with all new material...


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## TIBrent (Oct 14, 2012)

I'm telling you, 'extension to one' is one of the sweetest songs I have heard all year, it's got some of the best hooks in modern metal. They brought their A game big time especially on this jam.
-Brent


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## Prydogga (Oct 14, 2012)

Yup. And it was great to hear those very manly pitched screams in the back from Mike. This album has his best vocal performance yet. Some of the cleans in Vanity to Utility are just ridiculous. Vanity and Machine are definitely my favourites at the moment.


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## Sikthness (Oct 14, 2012)

Im lovin this. My only complaint would be the length. On first listen it felt like I managed to listen to the whole cd in 5 min. Other than that, there really isnt any filler. And Extension to One is one of the best songs I've heard all year, that is some metal that'll get stuck in your head for days.


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## Cougs (Oct 14, 2012)

man i'm struggling to wait until Friday to buy it.


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## Cyntex (Oct 14, 2012)

So how long does the cd run? Still have to wait till the 20th


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## Prydogga (Oct 14, 2012)

It's 34 minutes. It'll hopefully be on Spotify on Tuesday, unless they only do it for American users on that date. I can't wait to see the CD packaging.


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 14, 2012)

I kind of hate the way they did the booklet to be honest lol.


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## Mukersman (Oct 14, 2012)

Did anybody get the preorder t-shirts. I was gonna get the preorder package but with shipping it came to 35 dollars. I really just wanted the shirt. I'll just have to borrow the album from somebody. Glad to hear it lives up to expectations.


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## Nykur_Myrkvi (Oct 14, 2012)

Scrubface05 said:


> I kind of hate the way they did the booklet to be honest lol.


How so?

I'm still waiting. My copy will be shipped from Amazon along with Time I


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## JosephAOI (Oct 14, 2012)

Prydogga said:


> It's 34 minutes. It'll hopefully be on Spotify on Tuesday, unless they only do it for American users on that date. I can't wait to see the CD packaging.


Sumerian doesn't do Spotify at all iirc


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## Fat-Elf (Oct 14, 2012)

JosephAOI said:


> Sumerian doesn't do Spotify at all iirc



At least Periphery's all stuff is there but they're signed by Century Media here.


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## JosephAOI (Oct 14, 2012)

I'll just leave this here:

"There were no weapons of mass destruction or mobile biological weapons labs.
The agenda was to remove Saddam Hussein. 
To reap the oil and establish a base. 
The bush administration made a series of claims prior the Iraqi war, abuse and misuse of intelligence. 
There was no collusive. 
Relationship with Al Qaeda. 
Esoteric Agenda. 
Open your eyes and see this world is not what it seems. 
Free you soul. 
From the ties that bind us all. 
Time is upon us to wake up. 
The wars of the world are diversions for the desires of the powers. 
They declare war as the last option, even though they always actively block every other viable policy in the same way the powers make war the only option."


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 14, 2012)

And this,


"We don't know how to relate in a civil way, 
Because the entire system is based on everyone leeching off each other.
We are all one, the world for all. 

There is a psychological flaw in the system.
Based on differential advantage and exploitation by one group over another.
Imagine the potential if instead of everyone fighting, everyone contributes.

It's not a pipe dream, or unattainable. 
Redesign society from the ground up, but this time make it actually humane.
Be the change that you want to see in this world.
Believe that we can achieve this in our lifetime.
Free of outdated, convoluted notions, outmoded political systems, and religion.

We don't know how to relate in a civil way because our entire system is based on everyone leeching off each other.
We are all one, the world for all."


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## kcyrowolf (Oct 14, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I thiught they had trouble getting to the US?



Yeah, that one time.

The album is brilliant, great to finally see it out at last. What with Dom and (later) Craig leaving, the HAARP guys have had a lot of crap to contend with. 

They're going to smash it apart live with Rüdinger behind the kit! And it looks like you US folks will get to see it first! Ah well, I feel privileged to have seen them with Mike here in England back in February (and kept it zipped for over half a year haha).

Let there be no doubt, The HAARP Machine are brilliant musicians and I confirm that they can indeed tear it up live and will not disappoint!


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## Vicissitude27 (Oct 14, 2012)

My favorite metal album in a long time. The guitar style that Al composed is just refreshing. 

And as for the vocals I was very impressed with his arrangements over the music.
He did a stellar job


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## ROAR (Oct 14, 2012)

I'm loving these lyrics, hopefully the vocals grow on me some more.

The thing is though, these lyrics really make a statement. One that from
what I have seen I can agree with (especially what Joseph posted).
Are you guys going to read/hear these lyrics and see the importance of what 
they're trying to point out? 
I never see that anymore, and bands are really making some bold statements.
Like with this BTBAM concept album, I have barely seen anyone talking about the
lyrics and the story and all that jazz. I'm a big Coheed fan and everyone on that side
of the fence is always talking about the music, lyrics, and story. While the lyrics tell a story
they also have a different meaning and the same goes for BTBAM, The Faceless, hell everyone. 

Does anyone actually pay attention to lyrics and words these days?
Or is everyone a pseudo-philosopher who gets all there "knowledge" from
wikipedia, reddit, and all that bullshit that doesn't really foster intelligence
just a facade of one?
Someone assure me I'm cynical and people are actually wanting to hear
what these guys have to say not just Al's "controversial" riffing hahaha

Maybe all these years of people grumbling and the only way of understanding bands
was heading to a lyrics site or picking up the cd has diminished what words mean,
or maybe everyone for the past decade putting their favorite book as "i hate reading"
has led to this downfall.


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## valder (Oct 14, 2012)

These lyrics are in no way profound or impressive imo...It's the same tired rhetoric that's been spewed for awhile now. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the message, political themes just seem too easy to base an entire album around. 
Other than that, this album's flawless


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## jjfiegel (Oct 14, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Like with this BTBAM concept album, I have barely seen anyone talking about the
> lyrics and the story and all that jazz.



You are discussing the album in the wrong places then.


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## ROAR (Oct 14, 2012)

^Oh really? So that guy wearing the BTBAM shirt yesterday I tried to talk
to about the album, that wasn't something I should have done?


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## jjfiegel (Oct 14, 2012)

Maybe. The album came out Tuesday so he might not have heard it. Reddit has had many threads discussing the lyrics. A bunch of people (myself included) have written practically essays over at Ultimate-Guitar.


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## ROAR (Oct 14, 2012)

UG? I shall be heading over there right now,
I saw the reddit thing but will have to browse it again to see what 
Tommy said about it. I read a few things when I last saw it.


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## Alpenglow (Oct 14, 2012)

ROAR said:


> The thing is though, these lyrics really make a statement. One that from
> what I have seen I can agree with (especially what Joseph posted).
> Are you guys going to read/hear these lyrics and see the importance of what
> they're trying to point out?
> ...



I can't speak for the album's lyrics as I haven't listened to it yet, but you have a point for all lyrics. Sometimes I feel like myself and a small group of friends of mine are the only people we know in person who really analyze and dissect and take points away from lyrics. It's a shame people don't talk more about profound lyrics and push them to the side as "just lyrics". It's actually kind of sad considering the number of people who consider themselves Modest Mouse fans and have literally no clue what the lyrics are about and have no desire to find out... I find that really sad because I would say MM's lyrics are some of the deepest most insightful lyrics I've ever read.  



ROAR said:


> I'm a big Coheed fan and everyone *on that side of the fence* is always talking about the music, lyrics, and story.



I'm going to assume that was intentional and you just made an epic underhanded reference. If you're a Coheed fan you'll understand.


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## 3074326 (Oct 14, 2012)

Alpenglow said:


> I can't speak for the album's lyrics as I haven't listened to it yet, but you have a point for all lyrics. Sometimes I feel like myself and a small group of friends of mine are the only people we know in person who really analyze and dissect and take points away from lyrics. It's a shame people don't talk more about profound lyrics and push them to the side as "just lyrics". It's actually kind of sad considering the number of people who consider themselves Modest Mouse fans and have literally no clue what the lyrics are about and have no desire to find out... I find that really sad because I would say MM's lyrics are some of the deepest most insightful lyrics I've ever read.



Those of us who push aside the lyrics are simply not impacted by them. Never have I read lyrics and been impacted by content. Only the music. Different strokes.


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## anomynous (Oct 14, 2012)

I can't wait to see what's going to be more overrated: this or Wintersun.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 14, 2012)

This album is incredible!


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## HyperShade (Oct 14, 2012)

Machine Over is fucking incredible, except for that bass part that comes in at about 2:40 or so (Might not even be a bass, I'm not entirely sure.) Dunno what they were trying to do there. Felt like an unecessary bit. Other than that I think the whole album is great. Begins weaker than it ends imo. 

Vocals really delivered I thought. Also I dunno why no one has mentioned From Vanity to Utility, I think that's a great song.


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## ROAR (Oct 14, 2012)

I understand where 307534854numbernumbersnumbered
is coming from, and Alpenglow I also am a MM fan and although
the only album I am familiar with is We Were Dead I do love the lyrics.
And yes, CoCa allows me to deliver some coy references hehe

Anyone know what gear Al is using by the way?
I'm not sure if those Gibsons are his or what amp he was using
in the tracking videos but I'm sure someone here can shed some light


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## Alpenglow (Oct 14, 2012)

3074326 said:


> Those of us who push aside the lyrics are simply not impacted by them. Never have I read lyrics and been impacted by content. Only the music. Different strokes.



 I'm impacted just as much or more by the music than I am by the lyrics/vocals, so I totally understand. People tend to sway to either side. I know people who don't listen to Animals as Leaders because they don't have vocals and I know people who will listen to exclusively instrumental music because lyrics don't do much for them. I love it all, but it's a matter of perspective.


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## JosephAOI (Oct 14, 2012)

ROAR said:


> I understand where 307534854numbernumbersnumbered
> is coming from, and Alpenglow I also am a MM fan and although
> the only album I am familiar with is We Were Dead I do love the lyrics.
> And yes, CoCa allows me to deliver some coy references hehe
> ...



In the Varberg video, he said he used that to track leads and some rhythms on the album.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 14, 2012)

This album is good.

However, the use of artificial ethnic instruments sounds very gimmicky, the production sounds too much like Guitar Pro and The Faceless influence is a little too heavy.


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 14, 2012)

Hmmm.. you say artificial, I remember seeing somewhere else that Al'Mumin actually played some of the M.E. instruments. I know for a fact he plays a real Sitar and a real Koto.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 14, 2012)

Doesn't negate my point, artificial or no they still sound gimmicky to me 

I still enjoy the album, it just taints my enjoyment.


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 14, 2012)

Gimmicky? How so?

I mean, the main composer is middle eastern, it makes sense haha.


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## Vicissitude27 (Oct 14, 2012)

Scrubface05 said:


> Gimmicky? How so?
> 
> I mean, the main composer is middle eastern, it makes sense haha.



I think it's just his opinion man.


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 14, 2012)

I know I know, I'm just curious why he thinks so. 
Relax man, not trying to start anything. 
I like talking about peoples opinions on things.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 14, 2012)

Over-used and off-kilter with the machine gun guitars. In places it fits, in others it doesn't. Just my opinion.


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 14, 2012)

That's what I wanted to hear 
I get where you're coming from, can definitely see it.


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## JosephAOI (Oct 15, 2012)

You know whats weird? When The Escapist Notion came out with the old singer, I was really digging it. Now that I have the whole album, I think it's probably the weakest track (Not saying it's bad though).

I seriously cannot say enough good things about this album. It's just superb in every way.


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## NaYoN (Oct 15, 2012)

Scrubface05 said:


> Gimmicky? How so?
> 
> I mean, the main composer is middle eastern, it makes sense haha.



The guy is British though. Maybe he is of middle eastern descent, but he lives in the UK and speaks like a British person. Just saying.


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## kcyrowolf (Oct 15, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Anyone know what gear Al is using by the way?
> I'm not sure if those Gibsons are his or what amp he was using
> in the tracking videos but I'm sure someone here can shed some light



He pretty much tracked with the Gibsons and, as mentioned in the .strandberg* video, he went back and rerecorded a load of lead parts using his new Varberg, all through the Axe FX.

As far as live, I have seen Al use different gear on the two different times I have seen them in the UK. On their first ever show supporting Animals As Leaders, he was playing an urban camo ESP MII through a Peavy 5150 and Zilla cab. The second time (on their brief UK tour with Decapitated/Aborted) he happened to be playing an Aura guitar through a 5150III half stack (though I got the impression from him that he was using a number of guitars on tour, including the .strandberg* #16 he was borrowing). He did confirm to me that he will be using the Axe FX exclusively from now on as well (surprise surprise).


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## skisgaar (Oct 15, 2012)

valder said:


> These lyrics are in no way profound or impressive imo...It's the same tired rhetoric that's been spewed for awhile now. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the message, political themes just seem too easy to base an entire album around.
> Other than that, this album's flawless


 Pretty much this. I'm looking through a lot of the lyrics now, and while I see the point, and the message (very clearly in fact), there is little poetry in their words. When I listen to VoM lyrics, I see a lot of the same ideas of "being freed" but they have lyrics that are more poetic and memorable. IMO the rest of the album sounds good, if not a little bit too much like guitar pro for my taste. Can't wait to get to the bottom of how ever many rumours are floating around though. Nonetheless, it's all relatively enjoyable.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 15, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Anyone know what gear Al is using by the way?
> I'm not sure if those Gibsons are his or what amp he was using
> in the tracking videos but I'm sure someone here can shed some light



He said he uses an Axe-Fx Ultra but wether thats for jamming/live/recording I don't know.

Machine over is probably my favorite song at the moment. I find it hard to listen to the Escapist Notion since I'm used to it being instrumental.


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## DLG (Oct 15, 2012)

honestly wasn't expecting anything from this band, don't know much about them. 

I thought it was supposed to be some sort of super technical, heady, hyper intellectual metal from the guitar play-throughs and the mystic/deep studio updates I saw, but from the 3-4 songs I heard it's pretty much run-of-the-mill tech metal with played out harmonies facilitating catchy killswitch-esque clean vocals.

not saying it's bad, just not what I expected.


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## sakeido (Oct 15, 2012)

I don't listen to much tech metal so whatever.. album is pretty sick. I like the vocals and lean & mean running time. No filler, no songs that are way worse than everything else on the album (like Ji from periphery 2), singer knows the guitars are doing the work so he isn't going completely over the top all the time. Some really great grooves.

Not crazy about the guitar sound. On the thin side, its lower in the mix than I would expect, and at times it is very choppy. They might have gone overboard on stitching the parts together.. destroys the flow of some riffs. Escapist Notion sounds a lot better in the playthrough video than it does on the album, for instance.

From Vanity to Utility probably my favorite


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## MDP333 (Oct 15, 2012)

Cool album, great compositional writing. But theoretical conspiracies as vocals, spewing non-factual "truths" is just annoying. 

I guess I get it, they're supposed to be mechanical. This non-emotion provoking method is what they're going for I guess, besides the few "Oh shit that was awesome" moments.

I'm just not impressed by big words, and I don't give a shit about the zeitgeist-esque beliefs. Atleast system of a down had the right formula for this approach. Clever and non-invasive, yet you still get what they're saying and you can relate to it. Not so analytical or in your face.


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## ESP_ (Oct 15, 2012)

I wish there were more clean vocals. The harsh vocal come off as weak to me. Decent album 3 out of 5.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Oct 15, 2012)

The album just came out today and I think it's totally sick! Riffs are so brutal and catchy at the same time.

I've just covered one of my fav riffs off the album, specifically off the last track "Machine Over". Hope you like it


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## JosephAOI (Oct 15, 2012)

Francesco, TABS.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Oct 15, 2012)

JosephAOI said:


> Francesco, TABS.



I figured it out by ear and watching the studio vid, but I can write one if you want!


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## JosephAOI (Oct 15, 2012)

You should try to tab the whole song if you feel up to it! 

I'm sure more than me would appreciate it!


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## CyborgSlunk (Oct 15, 2012)

sakeido said:


> No filler, no songs that are way worse than everything else on the album (like Ji from periphery 2)


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## Mark Lewis (Oct 15, 2012)

Scrubface05 said:


> I know for a fact he plays a real Sitar and a real Koto.



Explain...


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## 1337 (Oct 15, 2012)

Cause he wears a turban duuhhh.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 15, 2012)

So i gave the disc a spin today. And it was pretty damn good. If your into this stuff, check out Gorod. Very similar but without the clean singing.


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 15, 2012)

It credits him to sitar and koto in the lyric book. Im assuming if they weren't actual instruments, there wouldn't be a credit to them. There are more than just those two included, but they aren't credited, making me believe they are samples whereas the other two are not.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Oct 15, 2012)

Scrubface05 said:


> It credits him to sitar and koto in the lyric book. Im assuming if they weren't actual instruments, their wouldn't be a credit to them. There are more than just those two included, but they aren't credited, making me believe they are samples whereas the other two are not.



Sumerian's page also credits him on sitar and koto


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## JoeyW (Oct 15, 2012)

I love the album from start to finish, I know they're the kind of band that not everybody will get but I think this is a really great record.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 15, 2012)

This is great, probably one of my favorite death metal albums. Its up there with Gorguts, Spawn of Possession and Origin for me


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## 1337 (Oct 15, 2012)

1:29 - 1:55 of "Extension to One" alone makes this album one of my favorites lol.


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## gunch (Oct 16, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> This is great, probably one of my favorite death metal albums. Its up there with Gorguts, Spawn of Possession and Origin for me



Oh, you...


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## Rook (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm loving this, and have huge respect for them too, I think Al Mu'min carries myself extremely well and the whole band have a very decent ethic. 

The album is exactly the kind of thing I like, I listened to it start to finish three times this morning (it is quite short, mind), its not pretentious or showy despite all the hoohaa about how they record, it's not a shred album, and it has one of those things that make an album really shine for me - empty space.

I love a band that can use empty space well. 

It's not limited to shit either, on a production note....


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## brutalwizard (Oct 16, 2012)

I just cant get into this album Idk why. It just passes by me when i listen to it nothing sticks out really.

Maybe i just to try it later when the new BTBAM isnt constantly on my mind.


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## TIBrent (Oct 16, 2012)

brutalwizard said:


> I just cant get into this album Idk why. It just passes by me when i listen to it nothing sticks out really.
> 
> Maybe i just to try it later when the new BTBAM isnt constantly on my mind.


It may just been a mood or phase you are in right now, because I was really looking forward to the new BTBAM for the longest time, then got it & was like...yeah...okay & threw it by the wayside, then a couple weeks later, put it back in & am starting to dig on a few tracks besides Telos.
-Brent


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## JonteJH (Oct 16, 2012)

The lyrics sure is better than that guys pen sir


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## HANIAK (Oct 16, 2012)

^ ahahah!!

E SO TE RIC A GEN DA!!


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## jawbreaker (Oct 16, 2012)

After giving the album a fair try, granted i've listened to it about a million times, I FUCKING LOVE IT! I've been waiting for this album since i heard The escapist notion and the instrumental Pleiadian Keys. Front to back, top to bottom, left to right, any way i look at this album is amazing! So worth the wait! 2012 really was the year of great music! The Faceless, BTBAM, The HAARP Machine, This or The Apocalypse, Monuments, periphery, And more! I'm so in love with this year!


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## dan0151 (Oct 16, 2012)

mine just arrived just giving it a spin, liking what i'm hearing.


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## nojyeloot (Oct 16, 2012)

This album is really good. Riff @ 2:08-2:20 on track 5 (Disclosure) made me do this face in the office before I could catch myself:


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## JosephAOI (Oct 16, 2012)

The title track is one of my favorites without a doubt but it goes by SO FAST. Does anyone else feel like that too with that song?


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## Fat-Elf (Oct 16, 2012)

Still not in Spotify. I would even buy it but none of the stores around here sell it and I don't really feel like paying those delivering fees.


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## bhakan (Oct 16, 2012)

JosephAOI said:


> The title track is one of my favorites without a doubt but it goes by SO FAST. Does anyone else feel like that too with that song?


Yes! I love the album, but most of the songs, especially Disclosure, feel too short. They're just so awesome that I want more.


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## jawbreaker (Oct 16, 2012)

The last 39 seconds of Esoteric Agenda is perfect. It's like groovy, and leady, and makes me wonder why i even bother playing the guitar..


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## sakeido (Oct 16, 2012)

JosephAOI said:


> The title track is one of my favorites without a doubt but it goes by SO FAST. Does anyone else feel like that too with that song?



I feel that with pretty much every song on the album, but I wouldn't change them... I just listen to them again instead


----------



## Sikthness (Oct 16, 2012)

JosephAOI said:


> The title track is one of my favorites without a doubt but it goes by SO FAST. Does anyone else feel like that too with that song?



They all fly by, but this one in particular seems like it should have another 2 minutes attached to it. It almost comes off feeling like an interlude somehow, if that makes sense.


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## bhakan (Oct 16, 2012)

^I feel like it sets the tone that it's gonna be a 7+ minute epic, and then just ends after 3 minutes.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 16, 2012)

Its great to see a "death" metal band not shy away from major melodies. The end of From Vanity to Unity would be an example and it fits in on the album perfectly. I love the guitar solo at the end of Machine Over, every note is perfect.


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## Randy (Oct 16, 2012)

Pleasantly surprised by this album.

The direction they went with the vocals made this album stand out quite a bit from their technical DM/djent contemporaries, IMO. A lot more substance in the song structure than I was expecting and fuck, riffs all over the place.

Only critiques are two things, I'd agree with SS on the overuse of machine gun riffs and the ethnic instruments don't 'sit' too well, IMO. Only other thing is, at least on my setup, I'm hearing a lot of "brickwall" and the vocals jump in and out of the mix in an inconsistent manner. 

Overall, though, I love it.


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## ESP_ (Oct 16, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> Its great to see a "death" metal band not shy away from major melodies. The end of From Vanity to Unity would be an example and it fits in on the album perfectly. I love the guitar solo at the end of Machine Over, every note is perfect.



That is easily my favorite part of the album... it definitely surprised me when I first heard it. Makes me wanna go to my happy place.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 16, 2012)

I just had to learn and cover the outro solo in Machine Over. I'll upload a tab tomorrow.


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## TIBrent (Oct 16, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> I just had to learn and cover the outro solo in Machine Over. I'll upload a tab tomorrow.



SO MUCH FRAKING WIN IN THAT SOLO! Great job learning it, & so dang quick. Muchos probs to you, great job & feel going on there dude 
-Brent


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## valder (Oct 16, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> Still not in Spotify. I would even buy it but none of the stores around here sell it and I don't really feel like paying those delivering fees.


 
From what I've noticed, Sumerian bands aren't on Spotify...could be wrong but I've never found entire albums on there from Sumerian bands


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## NaYoN (Oct 16, 2012)

valder said:


> From what I've noticed, Sumerian bands aren't on Spotify...could be wrong but I've never found entire albums on there from Sumerian bands



Maybe Ash is still butthurt from that time when the new Veil of Maya album leaked like a month before its release on Spotify?


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## jjfiegel (Oct 16, 2012)

I think, if I'm recalling Misha correctly, they don't a good enough deal on royalties or licensing to warrant putting themselves on Spotify.


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## The Reverend (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm still undecided on this album. Granted, I listened to it as I was falling asleep, so I wasn't in the best state of mind to appreciate music. 

I enjoyed the use of the exotic instruments as well as the vocal melodies. I really like bands that employ a very flavorful kind of clean singing. I've noticed a few British "djent/tech/progressive" bands doing this; is there something I should know? 

I did think the production was off a bit. Very walled, like Randy, and I also had the same problems with the clean vocals sounding very lost in the mix. I'm not the biggest fan of the singer's scream. It isn't bad, just not very impressive, like every other aspect of the band's musicianship. 

I was reminded forcibly of Within The Ruins at a few points as well. We'll see what happens now that I'm listening again.


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## Scrubface05 (Oct 16, 2012)

HANIAK said:


> ^ ahahah!!
> 
> E SO TE RIC A GEN DA!!



E SO TE RIC A GEN DAAAAA-aaa-aaaaaaAAaAaAaAAAAAA aaaAAAAAaaAaAAaaaaa aaaaaaaaAAAAAaAAaAAAAAaAaaaAA


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## Equivoke (Oct 17, 2012)

opn ur eys


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## concertjunkie (Oct 17, 2012)

can't stop listening to this cd. I dunno about you guys, but I feel pretty fucking inspired by this, and want to play more guitar as a result


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## JosephAOI (Oct 17, 2012)

I just want to learn how to play the whole album. Especially Lower The Populace.


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## ByDesign (Oct 17, 2012)

Love it. Don't care much for the M.E. instrumentation and I really, REALLY dislike the end of From Vanity To Utility, but otherwise I'm thoroughly enoying it. Favourites are Disclosure and Extension To One. Semesky is god.


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## thenickarchives (Oct 17, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> Still not in Spotify. I would even buy it but none of the stores around here sell it and I don't really feel like paying those delivering fees.





jjfiegel said:


> I think, if I'm recalling Misha correctly, they don't a good enough deal on royalties or licensing to warrant putting themselves on Spotify.



Yeah I read an interview w/ Ash and that's basically what he said as well


I think this cd is fuckin sick. I also dig that it's not in a low ass tuning for once too. nice change up from most of the other metal ive been listening to lately


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## 3074326 (Oct 17, 2012)

Haha, this is fucking awesome. Been waiting for something like this for a long time.


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## ROAR (Oct 17, 2012)

Working on as much as I can, but I don't have the best ear.
Feel free to take this and add to it and everything, just thought
a nice start would make some people happy!

From Vanity to Utility.tg

*you can play the G on the low C string if you want, 7th fret.
I watched the studio video and saw he plays the G string instead,
but do whatever the fuck you want!

Edit #3:
ULTRA CRUDE Machine Over.tg


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## 1337 (Oct 17, 2012)

Working on tabbing "Esoteric Agenda" atm.


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## TIBrent (Oct 17, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Working on as much as I can, but I don't have the best ear.
> Feel free to take this and add to it and everything, just thought
> a nice start would make some people happy!
> 
> ...


what file type are these?
-Brent


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 17, 2012)

tux guitar. its free, like gp but crappier.


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## ROAR (Oct 17, 2012)

^yes!


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## Opion (Oct 17, 2012)

Got a couple tracks off iTunes earlier, listening now...

Nice use of middle-eastern instruments, admittedly the tracks do go by a bit faster than usual, but it's not as bad as I thought - pretty good songs. Liking the vocals, like most everyone says it's a nice change from most "tech-prog" these days.

So far I dig! Got most of the tracks everyone seemed to like, think I may go back and get the rest...


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## Onegunsolution (Oct 17, 2012)

This album has murdered me and has convinced me make the 3 hour drive to Teledo OH to see them with The Faceless and Revocation next month


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## valder (Oct 18, 2012)

this album is quite refreshing...really stoked to see them with the faceless


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## leonardo7 (Oct 18, 2012)

Too bad they wont be making it to the Bay Area this time around. Who's the other band on tour with them and the Faceless? Im looking at the flyer but absolutely cannot read the name of the other band.


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## 1337 (Oct 18, 2012)

The tour dates are out already? Can someone post them?


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## TIBrent (Oct 18, 2012)

leonardo7 said:


> Too bad they wont be making it to the Bay Area this time around. Who's the other band on tour with them and the Faceless? Im looking at the flyer but absolutely cannot read the name of the other band.


I think that would be Revocation, feel like driving down to So Cal dude? We can then go about 4 hours further & see them in Arizona? I am actually thinking about doing the drive.
-Brent


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## Sikthness (Oct 18, 2012)

I hope they are unable to leave the country/enter any other countries again. That way they will have no choice but to immediately start writing/recording a follow up.


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## Rook (Oct 18, 2012)

Listened to the album through my mackie monitors the first time today. Is it just me or does the centre channel get a little bit crowded?

Doesn't detract from the music at all, but the only stereo imagery I'm getting is from the single tracked guitars.


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## leonardo7 (Oct 18, 2012)

TIBrent said:


> I think that would be Revocation, feel like driving down to So Cal dude? We can then go about 4 hours further & see them in Arizona? I am actually thinking about doing the drive.
> -Brent



That would be alot of fun. Let me take a look at the ol calendar and message you about it


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## valder (Oct 18, 2012)

these lyrics are extremely disappointing...sound like something a highschool kid would write


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## rgaRyan (Oct 18, 2012)

valder said:


> these lyrics are extremely disappointing...sound like something a highschool kid would write



"To elevate humans conscious we must first
Modernise our understandings and beliefs
Through re-education and meditative introspection
The environment supporting primitive value systems must alter to sustain this new worldview

Human behaviour is simply a persons value system relative to their environment
Ethics is relative to culture
For our social system promotes and rewards competition and self interest
Directly generating aberrant behaviour"

...riiiight.


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## Philligan (Oct 18, 2012)

Fun111 said:


> Listened to the album through my mackie monitors the first time today. Is it just me or does the centre channel get a little bit crowded?
> 
> Doesn't detract from the music at all, but the only stereo imagery I'm getting is from the single tracked guitars.



That's what I was thinking, it sounds kinda funny. The guitars seem to sit pretty low in the mix sometimes, too.



rgaRyan said:


> "To elevate humans conscious we must first
> Modernise our understandings and beliefs
> Through re-education and meditative introspection
> The environment supporting primitive value systems must alter to sustain this new worldview
> ...











rgaRyan said:


> Human behaviour is simply a persons value system relative to their environment
> Ethics is relative to culture



That second line is perhaps the most redundant thing ever


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## anomynous (Oct 19, 2012)

But gaiz, they're so edgy & totes against the man with these deep uber smart lyrics. I feel enlightened.


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## CrushingAnvil (Oct 19, 2012)

rgaRyan said:


> "To elevate humans conscious we must first
> Modernise our understandings and beliefs
> Through re-education and meditative introspection
> The environment supporting primitive value systems must alter to sustain this new worldview
> ...



Those are the most un-poetic, unmusical lyrics I have ever read.

It's more of a statement than a lyric...like something from 'The Matrix'


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## elq (Oct 19, 2012)

The lyrics remind me of the angsty rich kid philosophy majors I knew in college who wore all black, discussed Hegelian dialectic of the class struggle and patriarchy while they skip class to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee at a starbucks.

In other words 






I like the music though...


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## Prydogga (Oct 19, 2012)

I think AL wrote most/all of the lyrics.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 19, 2012)

elq said:


> The lyrics remind me of the angsty rich kid philosophy majors I knew in college who wore all black, discussed Hegelian dialectic of the class struggle and patriarchy while they skip class to smoke cigarettes and drink coffee at a starbucks.
> 
> In other words
> 
> ...



Yeah my sentiments exactly. I bought the album since I had money left in my iTunes account and regardless of the whole "Guitar Pro" debacle, the music itself is cool but the lyrics are pretty meh, IMO.  That is precisely what comes to mind when I read the lyrics, Eric.  That being said, I don't mind the music part of things, just have to ignore the lyrics I guess.


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## sakeido (Oct 19, 2012)

I think a lot of those lyrics were ripped right from textbooks on philosophy and ethics. I thought it was cool how intelligible the vocals were, but now I wish they weren't


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## valder (Oct 19, 2012)

CrushingAnvil said:


> Those are the most un-poetic, unmusical lyrics I have ever read.
> 
> It's more of a statement than a lyric...like something from 'The Matrix'


 
not only are they "un-poetic", but the fact that the lyrics on this album are trying so hard to make a statement that has already been made countless times is just boring. I mean there already is an entire genre devoted to screw the man/anti government lyrics...they just seem easy to write.

I've always been extremely turned off by musicians attempting to get political....hence my never liking rage.

With all that said, I still really dig this album. However, for maybe the first time ever on a metal album, the lyrics just bug the shit outta me and have kinda put a damper on what could have been a great album....now it's just good.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 19, 2012)

Good thing I can't make out half the vocals so

I made a tab for the guitar solo in Machine Over:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kok1068ynw0pvra/The Haarp Machine - Machine Over Guitar Solo Tab.zip

One in Drop C and one in Eb the way I played it in my video - The HAARP Machine - Machine Over Guitar Solo - YouTube

I'll tab some of the other songs/solos when I get time. Enjoy!!!!!


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## ROAR (Oct 19, 2012)

Some people listen to Rush and think
"wow I love Geddy's bass line, and Neil's chops
were on fire! Did you hear Lifeson's tone!?"
and other people listen to Rush and think
"definitely, I really understand how pressure and fame
can push someone into doing something they don't want to do
or aren't comfortable with, just for the sake of fame."

Is Neil Peart a philosophical phony full of bullshit simply because
the former thinks nothing of the lyrics or they have no impact to them personally?
Apparently so around here.


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## anomynous (Oct 19, 2012)

The butthurt begins.


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## ROAR (Oct 19, 2012)

Forgive me for being tired of all the hate and just trying to 
Make people think in a different light. 

Why would I be "butthurt" when I don't care what you think?
You can think whatever you want! 
The HAARP Machine sucks dick? Cool! It's not for you. 

Please show me something you like, so I can in turn 
Let you know how much it sucks


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 19, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Forgive me for being tired of all the hate and just trying to
> Make people think in a different light.
> 
> Why would I be "butthurt" when I don't care what you think?
> ...



Don't take it personal son, it's only the internet.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Oct 19, 2012)

teh internet is srs bssns


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## Heroin (Oct 20, 2012)

After listening to the album twice I have to say it's fucking awesomesauce. The riffs are top notch and the use of the sitar and koto gives them such a distinct and epic sound. shit's cray.


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## anomynous (Oct 20, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Forgive me for being tired of all the hate and just trying to
> Make people think in a different light.
> 
> Why would I be "butthurt" when I don't care what you think?
> ...



The HAARP Machine doesn't suck dick, the lyrics do. They're extremely cheesy.


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## ItWillDo (Oct 20, 2012)

I have to say that the vocals have ruined the album for me. I had high hopes for this album after the first released tracks (Escapist Notion, Pleiadian Keys,...) but the overuse of cleans in this album is killing me. 
It's not that I don't like cleans, I've enjoyed the new The Contortionist & Art By Numbers album a lot, but somehow those vocals didn't sound so redundant.

This is all of course my personal opinion.


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## Dan Halen (Oct 20, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Some people listen to Rush and think
> "wow I love Geddy's bass line, and Neil's chops
> were on fire! Did you hear Lifeson's tone!?"
> and other people listen to Rush and think
> ...



Agreed^ but not quite as angry

I think we should leave this as an appreciation thread rather than a slam thread which it will inherently become. Because for some reason Mr. Al Mu'min attracts people who think bad things about him.

And we all know he wrote the lyrics, but if he took some of them directly from a text then so what. THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DO THAT IN MUSIC!!!!! Fucking Metallica took a lyric from the bible. you gonna tell them how much their lyrics suck. Al Probably just reinterpreted the writings how he saw fit the music because of the message he was trying to promote. I'm all for the "Rush theory" stated above.

(I'm sure that will spawn a "Metallica sucks" war)


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## Equivoke (Oct 20, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> I think we should leave this as an appreciation thread rather than a slam thread which it will inherently become.



I think we should leave it as a place for discussion, good or bad.


I'm not the biggest fan of the lyrics, but his vocal delivery is good so it's not that big a negative. Album is carried by the riffs. Dem Riffs.


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## ROAR (Oct 20, 2012)

Why does everyone think I'm angry or mad?


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## Philligan (Oct 20, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Forgive me for being tired of all the hate and just trying to
> Make people think in a different light.
> 
> Why would I be "butthurt" when I don't care what you think?
> ...



That reads like HAARP Machine lyrics 

The more I listen to this album the more I like it  I made the mistake of getting it off iTunes, I wanna get a hard copy for listening in the car and at home.


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## rgaRyan (Oct 20, 2012)

Philligan said:


> That reads like HAARP Machine lyrics
> 
> The more I listen to this album the more I like it  I made the mistake of getting it off iTunes, I wanna get a hard copy for listening in the car and at home.



Burn a CD?


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## chaosimminent (Oct 20, 2012)

Waited awhile for this album and was kind of nervous that it wouldn't be that great but it's incredible.


----------



## goherpsNderp (Oct 20, 2012)




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## jawbreaker (Oct 21, 2012)

Actually since we're on the topic, can somebody send me the lyrics to all of the songs? It would be much appreciated! Also, i dont care what anyone says, i like the lyrics of the album from what i can hear. Just my opinion


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## The Reverend (Oct 21, 2012)

Fuck the lyrics, man. I can copy/paste some random Molotov Solution lyrics in there and nobody would notice. However true you may find their sentiments (and I'd have to point out that without the exploitation they decry, their wouldn't be a civilization successful enough to allow for music like this to develop) they are not inspired. They do not illuminate some basic truth about society, the government, and humanity in general in a poetic and beautiful way. They say THE EXACT SAME THINGS all bands of this ilk do.


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## TIBrent (Oct 21, 2012)

I'm really not sure what all the lyrical fuss is about here, I am look at the genre as a whole...ever song has terrible lyrics & phrasing, dating back all the way to Cannibal Corpse & the rest of the forefathers. Yes the subject matter has changed a bit, but whatever...same sort of lyrical stylings & phrasings.
 Just my opinion though.
-Brent


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## NaYoN (Oct 21, 2012)

TIBrent said:


> I'm really not sure what all the lyrical fuss is about here, I am look at the genre as a whole...ever song has terrible lyrics & phrasing, dating back all the way to Cannibal Corpse & the rest of the forefathers. Yes the subject matter has changed a bit, but whatever...same sort of lyrical stylings & phrasings.
> Just my opinion though.
> -Brent



Even CC lyrics have some sort of flow, a deliberation to them. These sound like they're just read off of a random manifesto, there is no "poetry" to them


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 21, 2012)

Haarp machine lyrics:

My name is stealth
Today i went to the store
I enjoyed it and had cucumbers to buy
There may be a conspiracy


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## JamesM (Oct 21, 2012)

StealthHAARPstic


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## 1337 (Oct 21, 2012)

So... about those tour dates. Anybody have em?


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## 3074326 (Oct 21, 2012)

I don't give a fuck about lyrics. I find the album to be very awesome. 

When I sing along in my car I usually just make noises that sound like what the singer is saying. I'm not even speaking a language most of the time. The music is just awesome. Riffs upon riffs upon riffs.


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## JamesM (Oct 22, 2012)

So after a few listens, here's my thoughts. 

I don't care about the studio tomfoolery.
The vocals are awesome. 
For the most part, the music is great. 
The "ethnic" parts are really confused and out of place. Gimmicky. 
Production is cool. Awesome snare. 

Overall, it's a short and entertaining album. I don't know why the band is surrounded with so much sketch-osity (yeah, I did that) and controversy. I just know that the music is enjoyable.


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## edonmelon (Oct 22, 2012)

This album is nuts. Seriously. I wish it was longer though, but that's my only complaint. I couldn't care less about the lyrics; the music is just TOO good.

I have made an EXTREMELY ROUGH tab for Extension to One (left-panned track). I will upload it this afternoon if anyone's interested. Some riffs might be slightly (or completely) off, but it gives the basic idea!


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## goherpsNderp (Oct 22, 2012)

edonmelon said:


> This album is nuts. Seriously. I wish it was longer though, but that's my only complaint. I couldn't care less about the lyrics; the music is just TOO good.



this.

sums it up pretty well. can't hear what the singer is saying, and that's fine by me. can't make out the words of most metal i listen to anyway. music is amazing, and i love how tight they seem to play. all the sitar type stuff doesn't sound out of place to me. it's a good kind of different.


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## Philligan (Oct 22, 2012)

edonmelon said:


> This album is nuts. Seriously. I wish it was longer though, but that's my only complaint. I couldn't care less about the lyrics; the music is just TOO good.



Definitely, I don't mind that it's short though. At least it's short and sweet, it doesn't overstay its welcome. It's like British tv shows vs American ones. Leaves you wanting more instead of taking forever to die


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## valder (Oct 22, 2012)

"maintain the status quo"

Perfect example of uninspired lyrics cheapening an otherwise amazing song.

K im done bitching about lyrics haha


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## edonmelon (Oct 22, 2012)

A little present! 

Extension to One.gp5

Very rough and basic (first time tabbing! and the song is hard) but I thought you guys might appreciate it!


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## joaoaldo (Oct 22, 2012)

FUCK! MAN, I LOVE YOU.


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## mithologian (Oct 22, 2012)

1337 said:


> So... about those tour dates. Anybody have em?



Seriously. There where supposed to be more TBA. there needs to be some kind of FL date....


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## TIBrent (Oct 22, 2012)

edonmelon said:


> A little present!
> 
> Extension to One.gp5
> 
> Very rough and basic (first time tabbing! and the song is hard) but I thought you guys might appreciate it!


Holy Moly man, good work! I was going to take a stab at it but...all that accelerated string skipping my my picking hand very sad hah
-Brent


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## JaeSwift (Oct 23, 2012)

So far, I love the album. I hate the sitar (in most situations), I hate the lyrics and am not too fond of the screamed/growled lyrics but clean vocals and supercallafradgelistically awesome riffs make up for those pet peeves.


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## dooredge (Oct 24, 2012)

I picked this up late last week and gave it several listens since then.

1. I don't see what all the steam is about this band - several bands do this style much better (The Human Abstract walks all over HAARP).
2. The mix sucked imo.
3. Can the sitar, we know the guitar player has middle eastern roots; so what.
4. Lyrics, dumb... People don't listen to metal for exestenstialist bullshit. Write about war, tanks & murder (okay, I'm joking on this one... maybe) 

Realizing this is a negative post, I'm not trying to start a flame fest. Just my jaded djentservations.


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## sakeido (Oct 24, 2012)

dooredge said:


> I picked this up late last week and gave it several listens since then.
> 
> 1. I don't see what all the steam is about this band - several bands do this style much better (The Human Abstract walks all over HAARP).
> 2. The mix sucked imo.
> ...



1. I don't even know who that is, so props to Haarp for getting on my radar when this other supposedly better band did not 
2. Objectively speaking it is at minimum a competent mix. Not like, say, VoM's The Eclipse or Vildjarta 
3. will not dignify with response 
4. yes 

I didn't take exception to this post until I saw "djentservations." That word makes me irrationally angry. For the love of God, never say it again. Ever. Haarp Machine isn't even a djent band... not even close, and djent fans have fallen for one of the shallowest, dumbest genres to hit the scene since nu-metal so saying you are approaching this album from that angle is not going to do you any favors.


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## Nykur_Myrkvi (Oct 24, 2012)

I wouldn't say The Human Abstract play the same style at all but I like them too though.

I've listened to this album almost twenty times in one week. I love the music, love the vocals, don't care for the lyrics but I don't dislike them.

Yes they aren't poetic in any sense but it doesn't bug me. I've heard songs where the lyrics make me want to never hear the song again, it did not happen here.


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## edonmelon (Oct 24, 2012)

sakeido said:


> 1. I don't even know who that is, so props to Haarp for getting on my radar when this other supposedly better band did not
> 2. Objectively speaking it is at minimum a competent mix. Not like, say, VoM's The Eclipse or Vildjarta
> 3. will not dignify with response
> 4. yes
> ...



This, this and this. Especially 3. 

What's wrong with the sitar and other "non-metal" instruments? I think they fit the music and the lyrics perfectly. I thought people would rather complain about the piano parts, which one would think are kinda out of place - althought I think they are perfect. 

This is an epic album IMHO.


----------



## dooredge (Oct 24, 2012)

sakeido said:


> 1. I don't even know who that is, so props to Haarp for getting on my radar when this other supposedly better band did not
> 2. Objectively speaking it is at minimum a competent mix. Not like, say, VoM's The Eclipse or Vildjarta
> 3. will not dignify with response
> 4. yes
> ...


 

Okay, so maybe they are not djent. I just assumed they were thrown in that category with all the fury surrounding them. Shame on me.  

No need to get irrationally angry over a word. I could think many other words that would demand that response, but not djent... See I stopped myself cause I don't want you to hurt yourself.  

And do check out The Human Abstract. Great band. I think they succeed, for me, where The Haarp Machine fails.


----------



## gunch (Oct 24, 2012)

You guys act like the ethnic instruments are like a giant goddamned pink elephant, to me they're _little _and_ welcome _breaks in pace.



sakeido said:


> I didn't take exception to this post until I saw "djentservations." That word makes me irrationally angry. For the love of God, never say it again. Ever. Haarp Machine isn't even a djent band... not even close, and djent fans have fallen for one of the shallowest, dumbest genres to hit the scene since nu-metal so saying you are approaching this album from that angle is not going to do you any favors.




Backing this up



dooredge said:


> And do check out The Human Abstract. Great band. I think they succeed, for me, where The Haarp Machine fails.




While I do like The Human Abstract, comparing them to The HAARP Machine really doesn't make sense. I guess what I'm getting at there is that you should explain your veiwpoint.


----------



## dooredge (Oct 24, 2012)

silverabyss said:


> While I do like The Human Abstract, comparing them to The HAARP Machine really doesn't make sense. I guess what I'm getting at there is that you should explain your veiwpoint.


 


 Both bands are "progressive metal" (I hope I'm using the right category), have melodic singing, have screaming/growled vocals... at the base they seem very similar. 

What are you hearing that this doesn't make sense? What am I missing? I know I know... an ear for music.  Seriously though, are they really not similar?


----------



## 1337 (Oct 24, 2012)

I think "an ear for music" is what you would need to realize that The HAARP Machine and The Human Abstract are not similar.


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## 3074326 (Oct 24, 2012)

I was thinking they had some similar things going on as The Human Abstract yesterday as well. 

But, clearly we're wrong because someone else disagrees.


----------



## HighGain510 (Oct 24, 2012)

After several spins of this album I'd still say I like the vocalist, just not the lyrics he's singing (of course I can't understand half of them, so not the end of the world).  His singing voice is pretty good IMO!  The instrumental side of the album is sweet, I like all the instruments used and some of the riffs/leads are awesome.


----------



## TIBrent (Oct 24, 2012)

The strangest thing for me about that post was hearing...


dooredge said:


> 3. Can the sitar, we know the guitar player has middle eastern roots; so what.


I mean, that is a part of their sound & by saying to just can it, we get it, is the same thing as saying about the Human Abstract, okay can the classical nylon string pieces, you are music theory major we get it. Ya know? Or saying about Vildhjarta, okay can the dissonance, we get it, you heard the nothing record too. Opinions are cool mate, keep um up, but maybe put the shoe on the other foot for a moment & remember some of your favorite acts as well have little-gimmicks or repeating character traits, as we all do. 
-Brent


----------



## Randy (Oct 24, 2012)

There was some 'Human Abstract' type things going on there. Fractured feeling arpeggios as rhythms, mixed groovy and syncopated riffs, some guitar gymnastics, etc

Certainly not a 1:1 but I mean, there's some connection. I would disagree with saying THA did 'it' better because I'm not sure what 'it' refers to considering there's still quite a bit of daylight between the both of them.


----------



## 1337 (Oct 24, 2012)

3074326 said:


> I was thinking they had some similar things going on as The Human Abstract yesterday as well.
> 
> But, clearly we're wrong because someone else disagrees.



If you are talking about me, I started my post with "I think..." which implies that it is my opinion.


----------



## edonmelon (Oct 24, 2012)

This thread just went the way I least expected. Comparing HAARP to THA? 
I mean, I just... didn't expect it.

Anyway, my two cents: while they share common treats, I don't think they can be compared in any way musically. They're both awesome in their own unique way and that's why "X is better than Y" arguments are just plain wrong.

You like The HAARP Machine? Good for you.
You like The Human Abstract? Good for you.
You enjoy and respect both? You're awesome.


----------



## dooredge (Oct 24, 2012)

I feel like with all the build-up to THM release it was going to be something more. Perhaps I'm overreacting because of my overall disappointment.

@3074326: Dude, we're complete idiots. We're the ss.org version of dumb & dumber. 

@TIBrent: True, I hadn't thought of it in that light. Something to consider.

@Randy: Yes, that captures what I failed to say. I lack in the eloquence dept. Whatever "it" is, THA does "it" for me. Hard for me to put into words.


----------



## anomynous (Oct 24, 2012)

1337 said:


> I think "an ear for music" is what you would need to realize that The HAARP Machine and The Human Abstract are not similar.





1337 said:


> If you are talking about me, I started my post with "I think..." which implies that it is my opinion.



Reread that. 


Your opinion is that you need an ear for music to realize that fact that the bands aren't similar.



At least that's what it reads as.


----------



## 1337 (Oct 24, 2012)

anomynous said:


> Reread that.
> 
> 
> Your opinion is that you need an ear for music to realize that fact that the bands aren't similar.
> ...



Touché. You win this one.


----------



## valder (Oct 24, 2012)

does anyone else thing the unison rhythmic part at about 1:51 on the escapist notion just sounds forced or outta place? Love the song, that part just always feels weird, like it doesn't need to be there


----------



## Larrikin666 (Oct 24, 2012)

Kinda of a pointless argument considering that The Human Abstract is no longer a band. I definitely understand the comparisons. I immediately started finding similarities between the two after my first listen to this. I think they're both great. They both excel better than the other in different areas in my opinion.


----------



## dooredge (Oct 24, 2012)

I am totally bummed by the fact that THA are no longer a band.

And true, I suppose it is rather pointless to bring THA into this though that wasn't my sole purpose for mentioning them. There were a point of reference more than anything.


----------



## no_dice (Oct 24, 2012)

I like the band, but I don't like the people acting like they're some kind of terrorist revolutionaries, saying shit like "This band is going to open society's eyes to the corrupt world," or "I've spoken to Al, we are part of a secret organization and we see you all as the problem."

Aside from that, I really dig the album. It reminds me more of Between the Buried and Me than The Human Abstract (thankfully), but maybe that's just me.


----------



## gunch (Oct 24, 2012)

dooredge said:


> Both bands are "progressive metal" (I hope I'm using the right category), have melodic singing, have screaming/growled vocals... at the base they seem very similar.
> 
> What are you hearing that this doesn't make sense? What am I missing? I know I know... an ear for music.  Seriously though, are they really not similar?



Well that much is true. I just think THA is more "shreddy" and lead based I guess I want to say? While the Haarp Machine is more about alt-picked runs on the lower strings, more "riffy" I guess.

Didn't mean to insult your ear for music, god knows I get stuff crossed up and confused on a regular basis.


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## bhakan (Oct 24, 2012)

dooredge said:


> Both bands are "progressive metal" (I hope I'm using the right category), have melodic singing, have screaming/growled vocals... at the base they seem very similar.
> 
> What are you hearing that this doesn't make sense? What am I missing? I know I know... an ear for music.  Seriously though, are they really not similar?


For the record, you could say that Tesseract meets that criteria too, but I'd hardly say they sound alike. 

I think they sound somewhat similar and I love both of them, but I would say (IMO) that The HAARP Machine have more tech-death sounding riffs, where The Human Abstract have more metalcore sounding riffs.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 24, 2012)

Why do people listen to bands they don't like With the amount of music readily available why would you waste your time listening to something your not enjoying.

Its like purposely eating food you don't like the taste of and willingly scoring chicks you think are ugly when you could be eating out in restaurants and hooking up with models.

Meh whatever makes people tick I guess.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 24, 2012)

ITT: We split hairs


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## wankerness (Oct 24, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> Why do people listen to bands they don't like With the amount of music readily available why would you waste your time listening to something your not enjoying.
> 
> 
> [it's like] willingly scoring chicks you think are ugly when you could be hooking up with models.



Wow, where do you live that hooking up with models is just as easy with scoring with ugly chicks?


----------



## Fiction (Oct 24, 2012)

wankerness said:


> Wow, where do you live that hooking up with models is just as easy with scoring with ugly chicks?



drawnacrol is a really sexy man.. I think



I'm really enjoying the album, only ever garnered any interest from me thanks to Semesky, and I think he delivered.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate (Oct 24, 2012)

This album sounds like a little more approachable to the average listener Gorod. 
I personally dig it and think its great. I dont care for the boy band style singing, but its done well, so i can live with it.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 25, 2012)

wankerness said:


> Wow, where do you live that hooking up with models is just as easy with scoring with ugly chicks?



I taught it was pretty self explanatory but since you didn't understand the ugly chicks are bad music, the models are good music and I live on the internet where both are in abundance at the click of a mouse. 

Capiche?

Back on topic Nolly posted that Al had all the songs tabbed in guitar pro. Hopefully he releases a tab book. I'd buy it in a second. Any UK guys able to contact him about it?


----------



## goherpsNderp (Oct 25, 2012)

that makes sense considering a lot of bands these days write out songs in GP. going the extra mile to make them complete and with any final tweaks for us fans would be nice.

i'd love to have the GP's for the new veil of maya and monuments. (browne doesn't use GP though, unfortunately)


----------



## Scrubface05 (Oct 25, 2012)

I showed this album to two of my friends. One who is a total EDM (Electronic Dance Music) fiend, and the other who does audio engineering (SAE graduate) who does not like prog metal. They both enjoyed it.
The SAE grad said it's one of the more tastefully done prog metal albums he's heard in awhile, and the EDM friend said he loved the melodies.


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## JosephAOI (Oct 25, 2012)

I messaged the band on facebook and asked them if they would release tabs. No response 

Also, not that anyone cares but when I release my album, I'll release all 100% official tabs


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## edonmelon (Oct 25, 2012)

valder said:


> does anyone else thing the unison rhythmic part at about 1:51 on the escapist notion just sounds forced or outta place? Love the song, that part just always feels weird, like it doesn't need to be there



What? No.

In fact I find that part to be very important to the song as a whole, linking the clean vocal part with the extremely EPIC riff at 2:20. Sounds good to me.


----------



## valder (Oct 25, 2012)

edonmelon said:


> What? No.
> 
> In fact I find that part to be very important to the song as a whole, linking the clean vocal part with the extremely EPIC riff at 2:20. Sounds good to me.


 

Ok, good point. Then I just wish they would have used a more interesting pattern.


----------



## Compton (Oct 25, 2012)

I was so excited by the album preview, but after hearing it all together its having to grow on me a bit. I won't say I do or don't like it because when I do that, i often feel otherwise.


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## Empryrean (Oct 26, 2012)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> *This album sounds like a little more approachable to the average listener Gorod.*
> I personally dig it and think its great. I dont care for the boy band style singing, but its done well, so i can live with it.



My inconveniently tiny brain is failing to pronounce that sentence properly, could you please tell me what Gorod has to do with Haarp please, Matt?


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## Fiction (Oct 26, 2012)

Gorod are good and HAARP Machine are good, therefore Gorod are HAARP Machine.


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## mithologian (Oct 26, 2012)

Larrikin666 said:


> Kinda of a pointless argument considering that The Human Abstract is no longer a band. I definitely understand the comparisons. I immediately started finding similarities between the two after my first listen to this. I think they're both great. They both excel better than the other in different areas in my opinion.


 



I hate tho bring this up, completely unrelated but...

THE HUMAN ABSTRACT&#8217;S DEAN HERRERA: &#8220;WE AREN&#8217;T BROKEN UP&#8221; | MetalSucks


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## DLG (Oct 26, 2012)

you know how like tons of people who think Meshuggah is too repetitive, one-dimensional and obtuse love djent? 

HAARP Machine is like tech metal for people who can't get through an entire Spawn of Possession album without getting a headache.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 26, 2012)

DLG said:


> you know how like tons of people who think Meshuggah is too repetitive, one-dimensional and obtuse love djent?
> 
> HAARP Machine is like tech metal for people who can't get through an entire Spawn of Possession album without getting a headache.



I'm a huge SoP fan but I can see how someone would feel that way. The new album's songs just kind of run into each other compared to noctambulant.


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## Larrikin666 (Oct 26, 2012)

mithologian said:


> I hate tho bring this up, completely unrelated but...
> 
> THE HUMAN ABSTRACTS DEAN HERRERA: WE ARENT BROKEN UP | MetalSucks




That just sounds like Dean trying to hold onto something. Henry and Travis are out. AJ jumps around doing different stuff all the time. Travis has talked about wanting to do another record if the band got back together. 

*end aside*


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## JosephAOI (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey dudes, I cleaned up the time signatures in that Extension To One tab and bumped it up to it's actual bpm of 145. Here you go!

Extension to One.gp5


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## ROAR (Oct 26, 2012)

I listened to the HAARP Machine and now I hate George Bush


----------



## Dunloper (Oct 26, 2012)

Just shit my pants because I thought this album wasn't even out yet and saw it at FYE today. The riffs that have graced my ears will never be forgotten.


----------



## CloudAC (Oct 26, 2012)

Bought the album, enjoying it! Some genius riffs and melodies here. If there's any gripe, it's that it feels just a bit too 'perfect' production wise


----------



## Double A (Oct 27, 2012)

I really tried to like this album because I have been waiting for years and I think Al is an incredible talent, but...

I just don't like it, the exotic instrumentation just doesn't gel with the music or with me, the vocals don't sit well with me and the songs are super short and do not feel fleshed out enough for me. The part of From Vanity at the end just made me go "wtf"...

I REALLY wanted to love this album but I can't. 

Anyways, cheers to those that do love it.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 28, 2012)

Continued listening to the album all the way through, I am REALLY liking it!  Honestly I'm not seeing why all the hate, they have a good mix of singing and death metal-style vocals, good sense of melody and some catchy riffs and leads.  

I get that some folks are still up in arms about the "sped up" stuff, but I could care less. I know of some folks who used vocal correction software on their previous album that are now throwing stones... c'mon, you can't be okay with editing something for your own work but flaming someone else who did the same thing... besides, all that stuff will come out when the band goes live, if they have their shit together or not, everyone will know!


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## DanTroupe (Oct 29, 2012)

anomynous said:


> After first listen........the album's alright. I'm sure I'll like it more upon further listens.
> 
> 
> Extension to One and Machine Over are clearly the best songs.




Definitely feeling the same way. I can tell it's good...it's just gonna need some time to sit with me.


----------



## anomynous (Oct 31, 2012)

Just want to say some of the negs I'm getting because of this thread are hilarious.


Butt hurt moar plz.


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## travis bickle (Nov 1, 2012)

didn't like the previous output of this band, but this new shit slays!!!!!!! i must study this release.


----------



## crg123 (Nov 15, 2012)

I thought this was kinda of funny in a silly way. Hopefully this hasn't been posted before.

I like the band but I felt the video was all in good fun haha.


----------



## JaeSwift (Nov 16, 2012)

crg123 said:


> I thought this was kinda of funny in a silly way. Hopefully this hasn't been posted before.
> 
> I like the band but I felt the video was all in good fun haha.



 Pretty impressive synchronisation in most scenes


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 16, 2012)




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## ROAR (Nov 16, 2012)

hahahah wow


----------



## x360rampagex (Nov 16, 2012)

So excited to see these guys two times in the coming months.


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## Dan Halen (Nov 16, 2012)

crg123 said:


> I thought this was kinda of funny in a silly way. Hopefully this hasn't been posted before.
> 
> I like the band but I felt the video was all in good fun haha.




FLAHAHAHA Micheal Bolton, You silly bitch!!!!


----------



## JosephAOI (Nov 16, 2012)

I just needed to post in this thread yet again to say how fucking PERFECT Machine Over is. Everything in that song is right where it should be.


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## TheOddGoat (Nov 16, 2012)

Reminds me of the album called Ascendancy by Trivium.

Edit: Kinda like Bullet for my Valentine's album called The Poison too, very reminiscent of the pop/emo metal of that time.

Strangely I recognise a couple themes from the Crash Bandicoot 3 soundtrack coming up :-/


----------



## JosephAOI (Nov 16, 2012)

^

Also, I want rep for posting this tab of the first minute or so of Lower The Populace!

LTP (1).gp5


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## ROAR (Nov 16, 2012)

I agree with Joseph. WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
And you talk like we would have never of heard of those bands.

Anyways, thanks for all these tabs JoBro.


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## TheOddGoat (Nov 16, 2012)

ROAR said:


> I agree with Joseph. WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!
> And you talk like we would have never of heard of those bands.
> 
> Anyways, thanks for all these tabs JoBro.




Society, evil powerful people blah blah and so forth.

Because people were talking about the lyrics and singing a lot.

If you mean the music, you'll probably still disagree with me because it reminds me strongly of dubstep like skrillex with contrapuntal guitar riffs as bookends.


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## ROAR (Nov 16, 2012)

well man, I appreciate you elaborating,
but I don't see that. Which is ok!
Interesting to see what see what people
get from these songs.


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## Philligan (Nov 16, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> Continued listening to the album all the way through, I am REALLY liking it!  Honestly I'm not seeing why all the hate, they have a good mix of singing and death metal-style vocals, good sense of melody and some catchy riffs and leads.



This. I think my favourite part of the album is the vocals, Semesky sounds like a white Howard Jones. Well, that's partly my favourite, that and the Layla outro on Vanity To Utility  There are some ridiculously awesome riffs on this album, Al has a great sense of harmony.


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## ROAR (Nov 16, 2012)

Yes! I'm still getting into the vocals, but I can't stop listening to the album.
It's disgusting how sick these riffs are.


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## Lorcan Ward (Nov 16, 2012)

I've listened to this album at least once a day since it came out. Its perfection and right up their with The Discovery and Fortress in my books.

After reading all the lyrics I have to say Semesky did an amazing job on the vocal melodies. Some lines are really awkward but he managed to put a catchy/flowing melody to them. I can't wait to catch them on the BOO tour next year.


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## TheOddGoat (Nov 17, 2012)

OK, I've listened to the whole thing in one sitting now.

There are a handful of riff I found to be really great... But the cheesy, syncopated chugstep that seems to fill the bulk of the album makes me cringe.

Just really really really not to my taste, definitely "cool people" music though - I'm probably just too sonically rural


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## bhakan (Nov 17, 2012)

So just out of curiosity, what riffs do you consider to be chugging riffs? I would of said the album has relatively few chugging riffs by my definition.


This album has been getting a lot of plays from me. My only complaint is that I wish more of the songs were a little longer. Machine Over is basically perfection (IMO), and I wish more of the songs were that length or longer.


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## Rook (Nov 17, 2012)

I'm the only person bar one I know that likes this.

If you're 'too rural' for this band.... Just wut.

I've heard HAARP referred to as many things but implying they're a trendy band is just a whole new level


----------



## TheOddGoat (Nov 17, 2012)

bhakan said:


> So just out of curiosity, what riffs do you consider to be chugging riffs? I would of said the album has relatively few chugging riffs by my definition.



Nahhh man, chugstep !

'Swot I'm calling the thing they do in every song on the album but one and it always happens at some point inbetween the 0:40 and 1:20 mark.

And what I mean about cool peoples' music is that this style seems to be in vogue at the moment:

Very straight contrapuntal riffs.

Chugstep club metal.

Angsty/exaggerated emotional vocals and plinky, culturally sensitive, atmospheric strings of some description - guitar or alternative fretted wood.

Like this:
TESSERACT - Concealing Fate Part 2 - Deception - YouTube


But only with cool people.


----------



## ROAR (Nov 17, 2012)

Alright.
Well thanks for insulting us who enjoy this band,
and honestly we all understand now: You do not like the HAARP Machine.
So if that's the case there are plenty of other threads you
can enjoy that would be much more valuable to your time, and ours.


----------



## TIBrent (Nov 17, 2012)

TheOddGoat said:


> definitely "cool people" music though - I'm probably just too sonically rural


Or it could just be that you are only 21 & still think it is a good idea to join a thread simply to state your own negative opinions. 
-Brent


----------



## JosephAOI (Nov 17, 2012)

Rook said:


> I'm the only person bar one I know that likes this.
> 
> If you're 'too rural' for this band.... Just wut.
> 
> I've heard HAARP referred to as many things but implying they're a trendy band is just a whole new level



Am I the 'bar one'? Cause this is EASILY in my Top 5 of the year and my Top 10 or 15 or so albums ever. I love this fucking album.


----------



## bhakan (Nov 17, 2012)

TheOddGoat said:


> Nahhh man, chugstep !
> 
> 'Swot I'm calling the thing they do in every song on the album but one and it always happens at some point inbetween the 0:40 and 1:20 mark.
> 
> ...


OK, most people call what you're talking about djent. Chugstep just confused me .

I still feel the majority of the riffs here take a more tech-death approach (IMO), just with clean singing which I love, but to each his own.


----------



## Double A (Nov 18, 2012)

Rook said:


> I'm the only person bar one I know that likes this.
> 
> If you're 'too rural' for this band.... Just wut.
> 
> I've heard HAARP referred to as many things but implying they're a trendy band is just a whole new level


One thing I find trendy is the style of vocals.

He isn't a bad vocalist but every metal band coming out now has those vocals.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Nov 18, 2012)

TheOddGoat said:


> Nahhh man, chugstep !
> 
> 'Swot I'm calling the thing they do in every song on the album but one and it always happens at some point inbetween the 0:40 and 1:20 mark.
> 
> ...



 Did you just spend your whole Sunday listening to a band you don't like then think about how much you don't like them and then post your thoughts about why you don't like them. 

Well I feel my hungover waste of a day was actually pretty productive now if thats how people spend their days off.


----------



## bhakan (Nov 18, 2012)

Why is everyone ripping on him for posting an opinion that isn't positive? He listened through the album, gave it a fair shot and didn't like it. Then he posted in the thread to contribute his thoughts on the band. This thread would be boring if the only thing you can post is "This album is awesome."


----------



## ROAR (Nov 18, 2012)

Because this thread would be boring if people didn't respond 
to opposite opinions.


----------



## bhakan (Nov 18, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Because this thread would be boring if people didn't respond
> to opposite opinions.


Touché.


----------



## ROAR (Nov 18, 2012)

Seriously though,
if you don't like this band there's no reason to post here.
Or to tell us we're "cool people" who listen to "chug step."
There are plenty of threads around here with bands I do not enjoy,
and it would be stupid of me to voice an opinion there that doesn't benefit anyone.
/OT

So what's this BOO tour?
I need to see these guys do some shows


----------



## Dan Halen (Nov 18, 2012)

TheOddGoat said:


> Nahhh man, chugstep !
> 
> 'Swot I'm calling the thing they do in every song on the album but one and it always happens at some point inbetween the 0:40 and 1:20 mark.
> 
> ...



I think rather than complaining about how much you hate the album, you could just give it regular old review. on whether it's good or bad. that's the kind of opinion that really counts. if there's some sort of derogatory remarks like "this is gay/sounds like dick because its trendy" then that's rude. but if you have an honest opinion even if it's negative then that's whats really appriciated

But yah there ARE a lot of bands that are coming out that have a Prog edge to them. just like in the 80's there were a bunch of metal bands that were like Metallica and Megadeth and Anthrax. and just the same with the 90's. It happens every 10 years no matter what theres always going to be that eye opening "omg I've always wanted to play music like that" bunch of people in the decade that the forerunner band(s) have behind them. it's not trendy it's just that genre's time to be experienced.


----------



## Sinborn (Nov 18, 2012)

if this album makes me a "cool person" who listens to "club metal", then I'm guilty as charged. Same goes for listening to Tesseract.


----------



## JosephAOI (Nov 18, 2012)

ROAR said:


> So what's this BOO tour?
> I need to see these guys do some shows



FUCKING EUROPE


----------



## ROAR (Nov 18, 2012)

........GODDAMNIT.


----------



## TheOddGoat (Nov 19, 2012)

That feel when people take a completely different and opposite inference from what you write instead of what you meant to imply...

What I mean is that it feels to me like it's written to aim at these things and I find it extremely difficult not to think "oh, they must have arranged it this way because so and so does it that way and they're popular." Like it's written to be trendy or edgy (same feeling I get from their name), not necessarily that this hypothetical group of trendy, "cool people" listen to it.

You know those labelled diagrams of "X"-kid? Take one of those for a "bro-metal type person who also watches anime" and it feels to me like it was written with that audience as a target...

Now, I also don't think they actually did this - but that's the feeling it gave me when I listened to it and I have no control over that.

The only reason I post is to see how other people feel and maybe see if their experience will change my mind and how I listen to it - it's in my interest to enjoy something I spent money on .

Part of why I've started liking it a bit more is because I've been looking for a sound that just isn't there, now that I listen to it more as if it were electronic music it makes more sense.

I don't believe there's any such thing as good and bad in music, just how it makes you react.

What is bad in my opinion is the disappointment I felt because I bought it based on hype that it was going to be something that it wasn't (yeah that's down to me ).

I like it, but don't love it. The reaction I get from it is "cool", but that's it. No other feelings or emotions.

Which isn't wrong or bad, just not what I'm looking for.

(Incidentally I also found a video where the guy definitely is playing live so we know he can if you haven't seen it The Varberg Story | The HAARP Machine - YouTube)


----------



## DLG (Nov 19, 2012)

TheOddGoat said:


> Take one of those for a "bro-metal type person who also watches anime" and it feels to me like it was written with that audience as a target...



I'm going to start a blog targeting this audience. seems like there's money to be made.


----------



## RagtimeDandy (Nov 19, 2012)

Band too good. We are not worthy!!!

Seriously, I've been listening to this album on and off for a month now and it's a really nice breath of fresh air in the metal bubble


----------



## Misanthropy (Nov 19, 2012)

Trivium's Ascendancy was definitely one of the many inspiration for al`s guitar playing in the early years possibly lyrically too 
The monuments/after the burial gig looks too awesome to miss.
Also the vocal parts on the ending of from Vanity to utility is just epic.


----------



## guitarister7321 (Nov 22, 2012)

Anyone have a Machine Over tab?


----------



## AndyLunt (Nov 23, 2012)

So they're going to be playing shows within the next couple of days, I await lurking youtube for some live videos to pop up!


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Nov 23, 2012)

guitarister7321 said:


> Anyone have a Machine Over tab?



I made a tab for the guitar solo:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/n9zujz0fkv1h3k8/Guitar Tabs.zip

I'll get around writing out the rest of the song when I've time.


----------



## anomynous (Nov 25, 2012)

Anybody see them tonight?


I guess it was the "official" debut of the line up.


----------



## chevymeister (Nov 25, 2012)

Can't believe these guys are coming to Windsor. Definitely going to be seeing them, especially with The Faceless...


----------



## Housty00 (Nov 25, 2012)

anomynous said:


> Anybody see them tonight?
> 
> 
> I guess it was the "official" debut of the line up.




Whoa, elaborate?


----------



## Renen (Nov 25, 2012)

Here is a video of Esoteric Agenda played last night that I found on youtube.


----------



## JosephAOI (Nov 25, 2012)

^Al seems to be having quite a bit of trouble with his rig.


----------



## ROAR (Nov 25, 2012)

Not bad, looks like Al is having some technical difficulties!
Still... this should start putting some rumors away


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Nov 25, 2012)

I'm surprised he isn't using his Axe-Fx live. The start sounded really tight but the technical difficulties caused a lot of problems for Al.


----------



## ROAR (Nov 25, 2012)

Yea I thought he'd be using an Axe Fx too.
Someone tell Al to join SS so we can bother him
with questions all day, like poor Misha


----------



## Jake (Nov 25, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Yea I thought he'd be using an Axe Fx too.
> Someone tell Al to join SS so we can bother him
> with questions all day, like poor Misha


He's already here: Sevenstring.org - View Profile: HAARP

he posted in the last HAARP megathread before it went to shit


----------



## downburst82 (Nov 25, 2012)

man..that video was painful  

Technical difficulties happen and it always sucks! kinda annoying that the only video available of them playing live right now al isnt even playing for half of it (and when he is the tone sounds awful..)

this video certainly isnt the one that is going to put people's suspicions to rest. (but I am sure that video will come)


Looking forward to something where I can actually see/hear him play a little more clearly.


ps:I should mention I have no suspicions myself... I just want to see him play!


----------



## Renen (Nov 25, 2012)

And here is another video


----------



## ROAR (Nov 25, 2012)

717ctsjz said:


> He's already here: Sevenstring.org - View Profile: HAARP



Wow I feel stupid,
I've read that post and even responded to him


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 25, 2012)

Wow their vocalist seems really great live. Sounds like he nails things.


----------



## anomynous (Nov 25, 2012)

The stage presence is a little weird, but Disclosure sounds good.



Should be a good show if there's no tech difficulties.


----------



## Adrian-XI (Nov 26, 2012)

Al looks so different without his headdress. Looking forward to a clean vid!


----------



## jaketheripper (Nov 26, 2012)

I would love to fucking see these guys with Revocation and The Faceless! Three of my favorite bands! 

Too bad they're playing 3 hours away in the middle of bumfuck nowhere in the middle of the week. Wednesday is going to be a sad, sad day.


----------



## jawbreaker (Nov 26, 2012)

Driving 3 hours to Kansas City to see the tour. I WILL NOT MISS


----------



## TIBrent (Nov 26, 2012)

Al, putting myths to rest 
-Brent


----------



## JoeyW (Nov 26, 2012)

So happy they're as cool live as they are on the record. Mike Semesky looks like Big Chocolate.


----------



## ItWillDo (Nov 26, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Not bad, looks like Al is having some technical difficulties!
> Still... this should start putting some rumors away


I'd have trouble with my rig too if I had to play my stuff at double-speed all of a sudden. 


Just kidding, although it does sound kind of sloppy to be honest. I'll be seeing them in February, if they sound remotely like this, I'll be very dissapointed.


----------



## RagtimeDandy (Nov 26, 2012)

I'd love for these guys to come to the Massachusetts area with The Faceless, I'm pretty bummed that they had no dates around here 

Also, whoever their singer is kicks ass live apparently. Those are some tough vocals


----------



## Renen (Nov 28, 2012)

Hopefully we get some high quality footage soon.


----------



## JoeyBTL (Nov 28, 2012)

I don't know what that was around 6:10 but it certainly wasn't the solo from Pleiadian Keys.


----------



## RagtimeDandy (Nov 28, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> I'm surprised he isn't using his Axe-Fx live. The start sounded really tight but the technical difficulties caused a lot of problems for Al.



Because nothing beats a tube amp


----------



## The Reverend (Nov 28, 2012)

RagtimeDandy said:


> Because nothing beats a tube amp



Except for technical difficulties.


----------



## -One- (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm not going to lie, I was really stoked for this band when I heard demos and preproduction, but then Mike became involved, and I _really_ don't like his vocals for this band. I'm not the only one, right? :\


----------



## RagtimeDandy (Nov 28, 2012)

-One- said:


> I'm not going to lie, I was really stoked for this band when I heard demos and preproduction, but then Mike became involved, and I _really_ don't like his vocals for this band. I'm not the only one, right? :\



I think they fit extremely well


----------



## Equivoke (Nov 29, 2012)

Audio is a bit better in this vid - Extension to One


----------



## Rook (Nov 29, 2012)

The mix doesn't translate live very well, does it?

So many of those riffs rely on both guitars, they should have a second guitarist IMO.

I'll do it 

Joking aside, I do think a second guitarist on stage would fill the sound out.


----------



## DLG (Nov 29, 2012)

from these vids and the faceless vids I've seen, I can't help but guess that Revocation is literally wiping the floor with both of them on a nightly basis.


----------



## HighGain510 (Nov 29, 2012)

Just curious as I didn't see it from a quick search, has anyone found or put together Guitar Pro tabs for Pleiadian Keys and Disclosure yet?  Would love to learn all the parts from those two songs but definitely don't have the time to sit down and learn them by ear (I'll be the first to admit, I'm rather lazy! ). 




DLG said:


> from these vids and the faceless vids I've seen, I can't help but guess that Revocation is *literally wiping the floor with both of them on a nightly basis.*



Really, literally?  *LITERALLY* wiping the floor with them?  I'd love to see video of that, but somehow I can't see Revocation using Hauch as a mop.


----------



## sakeido (Nov 29, 2012)

The Reverend said:


> Except for technical difficulties.


from what i can tell the problem wasn't the amp, it was something on his pedal board. an axe fx can fuck up just like anything else. and tube amps really do just sound better.



DLG said:


> from these vids and the faceless vids I've seen, I can't help but guess that Revocation is literally wiping the floor with both of them on a nightly basis.


that I don't doubt. I missed Revocation when I came to town but everybody who did see them raved about how incredible the show was


----------



## jawbreaker (Nov 29, 2012)

Going to see them in Kansas City tonight. I'm so fucking stoked. I'm gonna try to have a Q&A Al, just because. But it'll be like a million questions.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 29, 2012)

Ask about right hand tips!


----------



## TIBrent (Nov 29, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> somehow I can't see Revocation using Hauch as a mop.


Boom! Perfectly put. Nobody puts Baby in the corner & Hauch is no one's mop! 
-Brent


----------



## ROAR (Nov 29, 2012)

Don't really give a fuck what's "better" or who's
outshining who. I'd just like to keep seeing performances
of this band, because I like listening to them.
Plain and simple


----------



## jawbreaker (Nov 29, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Ask about right hand tips!


You know it bro!


----------



## JosephAOI (Nov 29, 2012)

Was this video posted yet?


----------



## Necropitated (Nov 29, 2012)

New necrophagist cover video of me in a Haarp Machine T-shirt ^^.
I´ll record some Haarp stuff in a few days.


----------



## ROAR (Nov 29, 2012)

^Totally relevant


----------



## anomynous (Nov 30, 2012)

Just saw them in KC. Completely legit.



Even though you could barely hear Mike.


----------



## Necropitated (Nov 30, 2012)

yeah sorry for being off topic with that video.
Being on topic: here´s my tab of Esoteric Agenda....
i tabbed what he played in the Strandberg video.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63800797/The Haarp Machine - Esoteric Agenda.gp4

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63800797/The Haarp Machine - Esoteric Agenda.pdf


----------



## ROAR (Nov 30, 2012)

Legit bruh,
I'd check out Josephs tab a page or two back.
Looks like you've both hit some key points in the tab


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## jawbreaker (Nov 30, 2012)

anomynous said:


> Just saw them in KC. Completely legit.
> 
> 
> 
> Even though you could barely hear Mike.


I was there too! It was sick. Some things i noticed about them. Mike was really quiet, couldn't hear him very well. Only times i could was when i was right in front of the monitor, like leaning over the speaker, and when he let me scream into the mic with him. Oliver Rooney.  Holy shit. That man is one impressive bassist. Like mind blowing awesome shit. I was blown away. Alex Rudinger was amazing as usual. Now we come to Al. He was using some odd peavey head, not sure what model. His playing was good, but he missed some key notes in the solos of a few songs. The tone was lacking to say the least. Also in the intro of The Escapist Notion he didn't play any of the notes on the high C string. Like the duhduhduhduh-datala-duhduhduhduhduhdada. Maybe my expectations were too high. I dunno. All in all they played great. 8/10. I talked to all the guys after the show. Mike and Oliver are awesome guys and are extremely friendly. Alex is very nice too but rushing around a lot. I only talked to Al for a brief moment. I told him how amazing he was and how the Haarp machine is one of my favorite bands and he was just like "cool, thanks." Then he said something to me and i didn't hear him so i said "what" and he said "nevermind" and spent like the whole night in the Van i guess. But I did acquire an autographed drumhead from all the dudes in the band! 
TL;DR
The Haarp machine was good live. You should really see them. 8/10


----------



## Randy (Nov 30, 2012)

JosephAOI said:


> Was this video posted yet?




Audio's not great but you can hear most of what's going on, until the Pleiadian Keys solo and then...?


----------



## Necropitated (Nov 30, 2012)

Already checked them and thanks for the tabs. Just learned the 
beginning of Lower the Populace.
I tried to record it yesterday, but I wasn´t satisfied with my performance 
so instead i went with ignominious & pale lol.
You´ll get a lower the populace video in a few days though.
The first 2 measures where ok ^^: 

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/63800797/HAARP - LTP.mp3


----------



## anomynous (Nov 30, 2012)

jawbreaker said:


> I was there too! It was sick. Some things i noticed about them. Mike was really quiet, couldn't hear him very well. Only times i could was when i was right in front of the monitor, like leaning over the speaker, and when he let me scream into the mic with him. Oliver Rooney.  Holy shit. That man is one impressive bassist. Like mind blowing awesome shit. I was blown away. Alex Rudinger was amazing as usual. Now we come to Al. He was using some odd peavey head, not sure what model. His playing was good, but he missed some key notes in the solos of a few songs. The tone was lacking to say the least. Also in the intro of The Escapist Notion he didn't play any of the notes on the high C string. Like the duhduhduhduh-datala-duhduhduhduhduhdada. Maybe my expectations were too high. I dunno. All in all they played great. 8/10. I talked to all the guys after the show. Mike and Oliver are awesome guys and are extremely friendly. Alex is very nice too but rushing around a lot. I only talked to Al for a brief moment. I told him how amazing he was and how the Haarp machine is one of my favorite bands and he was just like "cool, thanks." Then he said something to me and i didn't hear him so i said "what" and he said "nevermind" and spent like the whole night in the Van i guess. But I did acquire an autographed drumhead from all the dudes in the band!
> TL;DR
> The Haarp machine was good live. You should really see them. 8/10



I was right next to you, in the black
hoodie and Cynic shirt.


----------



## Jake (Nov 30, 2012)




----------



## Sinborn (Dec 1, 2012)

I just got back from seeing them. The songs were amazing to hear live, but Al'Mumin is a stiff on stage. I don't know what it is, maybe he's stressed about making the show happen. Alex was extra cool to me, I had a chance to small talk with him for a good 15 min after their set as he was tearing down. Quite humbling to know I've been playing drums twice as long as him, but I think he's better than me in every way.


----------



## dschonn (Dec 1, 2012)

^I could imagine that being pretty normal. I would not want to be in his position knowing that everybody (or at least every guitar player) in the audience is having extra close looks at him, while probably also filming him all the time


----------



## jawbreaker (Dec 1, 2012)

anomynous said:


> I was right next to you, in the black
> hoodie and Cynic shirt.


Nice man! I was in the grey black dahlia hoodie. I knew there would be fellow sso members there! haha


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 1, 2012)

That varberg looks sexy


----------



## anomynous (Dec 1, 2012)

The band really should add a second guitarist IMO.



Playing with a backing track on stage just seems wrong to me. Nothing against the band, but I think they'd work a lot better with 2 guitarists.


----------



## mikernaut (Dec 2, 2012)

I agree i think the band would really benefit having a 2nd guitarist. I really luv Mike's vocals on the cd and just stumbled across his Imogen Heap cover, being as I also love Imogen this was pretty epic to me, some probably will be turned off by the voice effects ... but anywhoo here it is if your interested- 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHql0-UgyO4&feature=endscreen&NR=1


----------



## Equivoke (Dec 6, 2012)

Really good quality live videos:


----------



## Maniacal (Dec 6, 2012)

They do need a second guitarist... I don't know many guitar Gods though.

I can't imagine playing all that fast string skipping for an entire set, 100% perfect. A serious challenge. 

The guitar CD parts are insanely clean, it is hard to tell what is being played live and what isn't.


----------



## Larrikin666 (Dec 7, 2012)

Who's coming to the show on Sunday in Pittsburgh? I still have 2 or 3 tickets to get rid of.


----------



## Fat-Elf (Dec 7, 2012)

anomynous said:


> The band really should add a second guitarist IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> Playing with a backing track on stage just seems wrong to me. Nothing against the band, but I think they'd work a lot better with 2 guitarists.



So fucking this. It was annoying to see VoM live as Marc was just tap dancing on top of his loop station half the time.


----------



## matt397 (Dec 7, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> So fucking this. It was annoying to see VoM live as Marc was just tap dancing on top of his loop station half the time.


 I've seen VoM numerous times, That motherfucker can play, I have mad respect for someone that can play that stuff an loop it live as oppose to someone taking the lazy root and just playing a backing track. 2 very different things.


----------



## JosephAOI (Dec 7, 2012)

matt397 said:


> I've seen VoM numerous times, That motherfucker can play, I have mad respect for someone that can play that stuff an loop it live as oppose to someone taking the lazy root and just playing a backing track. 2 very different things.


This. Marc actually plays everything you hear when they're playing live. I've seen them twice and talked to him numerous times.


----------



## Renen (Dec 7, 2012)




----------



## Fat-Elf (Dec 7, 2012)

matt397 said:


> I've seen VoM numerous times, That motherfucker can play, I have mad respect for someone that can play that stuff an loop it live as oppose to someone taking the lazy root and just playing a backing track. 2 very different things.



I'm still not a fan of "shoegazing". I'd rather listen to backing tracks than watch the guitarist stare at his loop machine half the gig.


----------



## mithologian (Dec 7, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> I'm still not a fan of "shoegazing". I'd rather listen to backing tracks than watch the guitarist stare at his loop machine half the gig.



Marc's stage presence delivers. Even with all the looping.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 8, 2012)

Renen said:


>




What the fuck was 7:05? He plays it perfectly in the video prior to this, but the way his tone just sounds like it's dying, and him giving up halfway through would make that show a total disappointment for me. I get perfectionism, but shit figure and test your gear, and make sure that doesn't happen live.


----------



## Fat-Elf (Dec 8, 2012)

Kenji20022 said:


> What the fuck was 7:05? He plays it perfectly in the video prior to this, but the way his tone just sounds like it's dying, and him giving up halfway through would make that show a total disappointment for me. I get perfectionism, but shit figure and test your gear, and make sure that doesn't happen live.



I bet he will blow up the amp into atoms after the tour.  Or at least I hope so..


----------



## HighGain510 (Dec 8, 2012)

So pissed, I had to go up to Philly for an appointment with my specialist and figured if I was lucky they would get me out in time to make the drive back down for the show last night... wrong. SIX hours later, finally got out of their office and felt like crap so there was no way I'd make it down in time.  Hopefully someone got video at the show down here, wish I could have made it as I wanted to see The Faceless play live too, Wes is a fucking beast.  I was really hoping to see The HAARP Machine play live though, I've been spinning their album a lot in the car lately, digging it for sure.


----------



## Maniacal (Dec 8, 2012)

^ 7.05 That was a strange variation of the original solo.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 8, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> I bet he will blow up the amp into atoms after the tour.  Or at least I hope so..





I thoroughly expected this to happen 



Not a hater, I love this band and each member's work and he can obviously play his riffs. But something is the cause some for these live videos to suck at points.


----------



## Marcel (Dec 9, 2012)

Sadly, Al Mumin has gone from my favorite guitar player to my favorite songwriter, he is playing the "easy" parts and letting the backing track play the hard ones, completely logic if you plan on playing hard technical string skipping from hell riffs imo.

He's still a great musician but the videos clearly speak from themselves I believe


----------



## TheOddGoat (Dec 9, 2012)

I pretty much like bits and pieces of most of the album now, however those live vocals do my head in 

BUT, at least you know it's definitely live.

On the other hand, I don't think there's anything wrong with being a studio band if you don't like playing live, it really looks to me like the guitarist absolutely hates being there and it makes me feel bad.


----------



## jawbreaker (Dec 9, 2012)

Every live vid i've seen Al is lacking. When i saw them live, lots of mistakes, a lot of that back track too. Very sad to hear one of my favorite guitarists can't pull it off live. But it's cool, it doens't make me not love Disclosure. Even if Al can't play everything, Oliver Rooney sure as hell makes up for it. Also, they really do need another guitarist.


----------



## DLG (Dec 9, 2012)

this should definitely be a lesson to all people who think they can bluff their way through technical metal. 

get to spawn of possession playing with a blindfold status, and then record your albums full speed so you don't embarrass yourself live.


----------



## NaYoN (Dec 9, 2012)

I knew about this not being able to play thing but I thought it wouldn't be a big deal if they sounded fine live, but there were a lot of really bad sounding mistakes (especially the solo) and awkward pauses where he waits for the backing track to pick up or he just plays by himself sloppily, and that just sounds like it would be an unenjoyable live show for me. I think they should get a really good second guitar player to make their live show not so awkward, and Al should get his playing to a point where he can actually nail his songs.


----------



## mikernaut (Dec 9, 2012)

They should steal Jason Richardson from Chelsea Grin, heheheheh

or seriously get this guy he rips!

The Voice Gajic for 2nd guitarist!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVdxa-lPq7o


----------



## anomynous (Dec 10, 2012)

Well after looking at these live vids, look like my enjoyment of their performance may have been blinded by the fact I loved Revocation & The Faceless so much, so I thought the entire show was killer. 


Oliver & Mike sounded killer though, so...........


----------



## Fat-Elf (Dec 10, 2012)

Give him a break. I don't know how much he has experience playing shows but if these are the first shows he has ever played then I don't wonder why he is not playing that well. I'm sure that when he gets confidence and more experience he becomes a great live guitarist.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Dec 10, 2012)

I wouldn't completely judge a band based on low quality youtube video. Its a completely different experience and sound when your in the crowd eg: Children of Bodom sound terrible when recorded live but in the crowd they are one of the best live bands I've ever seen/heard.

I'll be seeing them in february so hopefully they have tightened up their live performance by then.


----------



## morgasm7 (Dec 10, 2012)

o


----------



## morgasm7 (Dec 10, 2012)

o


----------



## whilstmyguitardjentlyweep (Dec 10, 2012)

dear morgasm7, please see the first post, especially the part about shitstorms. There was an opportunity to discuss al's character in a previous thread, but that got closed, due to posts like this.


----------



## Larrikin666 (Dec 10, 2012)

Damnit. I just typed up a 5 paragraph review of the show and closed the window because I posted it. LOL. I'll need to regain some patience and type it up again in a bit.


----------



## samthebrutal (Dec 10, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> Give him a break. I don't know how much he has experience playing shows but if these are the first shows he has ever played then I don't wonder why he is not playing that well. I'm sure that when he gets confidence and more experience he becomes a great live guitarist.



+1, Playing in a studio/bedroom is a far removed experience from a live setting in different venues (in a foreign country). Not to mention knowing that each night your playing is under consistent scrutiny.


----------



## DLG (Dec 10, 2012)

samthebrutal said:


> +1, Playing in a studio/bedroom is a far removed experience from a live setting in different venues (in a foreign country). Not to mention knowing that each night your playing is under consistent scrutiny.



welcome to the world of playing in a band :O


----------



## sakeido (Dec 10, 2012)

it happens. he had a lot of ambition.. I think it woulda been obvious when he was writing his songs that they were really hard to play. if you want to make those big intervallic jumps that are so important to Haarp Machine's sound, there is only one way to play those. you gotta know trying to get your picking hand in that kind of shape on stage every night is going to be very difficult, if not impossible for a lot of guitarists that don't have a 12 hour a day practice regime. given time he might get a lot closer. 

its more disconcerting to me that he is missing comparitively easy stuff, not just his string skipping riffs


----------



## Equivoke (Dec 10, 2012)

DLG said:


> this should definitely be a lesson to all people who think they can bluff their way through technical metal.
> 
> get to spawn of possession playing with a blindfold status, and then record your albums full speed so you don't embarrass yourself live.



Not that Haarp related but HD Bryzz-cam is always good


----------



## JoeyBTL (Dec 10, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> Give him a break. I don't know how much he has experience playing shows but if these are the first shows he has ever played then I don't wonder why he is not playing that well. I'm sure that when he gets confidence and more experience he becomes a great live guitarist.



You seem to be forgetting that he is in a SIGNED band. Confidence and experience shouldn't exactly need to be learned at this point. I don't think its unfair for people to have certain expectations of the artists on a metal label like Sumerian.


----------



## Fiction (Dec 12, 2012)

Maybe Sumerian should look more into who they sign, it's like purchasing a product because the advertisement (Being the recorded album) is great, but in reality the real product (live show) does not live up to the advertisement. With something like signing a band, maybe more research should be made, especially if live shows are going to be planned in the future.

I'm not saying its fine that Al can't play it live, i'm just saying confidence and experience is irrelevant to whether they're signed, in most cases, yes, but in this case Sumerian went right ahead and signed from demos. (AFAIK)


----------



## NaYoN (Dec 12, 2012)

Fiction said:


> Maybe Sumerian should look more into who they sign, it's like purchasing a product because the advertisement (Being the recorded album) is great, but in reality the real product (live show) does not live up to the advertisement. With something like signing a band, maybe more research should be made, especially if live shows are going to be planned in the future.
> 
> I'm not saying its fine that Al can't play it live, i'm just saying confidence and experience is irrelevant to whether they're signed, in most cases, yes, but in this case Sumerian went right ahead and signed from demos. (AFAIK)



I wonder what their signing process for bands is, since there was literally 0 hype for this band before Sumerian picked them up


----------



## Fat-Elf (Dec 12, 2012)

Moving away from the live performance, have listened the album from the Sumerian's Youtube page now excluding the last song and I think the album is great. Not really a fan of technical death metal but Al's stuff is really catchy and I like Mike's clean vocals. Not a single bad song (don't know about the last one though) on the album although it is quite short. People should just move on if they find this band unprofessional, no matter how "cheated" they feel. As far as I know, no one has forced you to buy their music or attend their live shows.


----------



## NSXTypeZero (Dec 12, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> Moving away from the live performance, have listened the album from the Sumerian's Youtube page now excluding the last song and I think the album is great. Not really a fan of technical death metal but Al's stuff is really catchy and I like Mike's clean vocals. Not a single bad song (don't know about the last one though) on the album although it is quite short. People should just move on if they find this band unprofessional, no matter how "cheated" they feel. As far as I know, no one has forced you to buy their music or attend their live shows.



The last song, Machine Over, is definitely one of the best.


----------



## bhakan (Dec 12, 2012)

Fiction said:


> Maybe Sumerian should look more into who they sign, it's like purchasing a product because the advertisement (Being the recorded album) is great, but in reality the real product (live show) does not live up to the advertisement. With something like signing a band, maybe more research should be made, especially if live shows are going to be planned in the future.
> 
> I'm not saying its fine that Al can't play it live, i'm just saying confidence and experience is irrelevant to whether they're signed, in most cases, yes, but in this case Sumerian went right ahead and signed from demos. (AFAIK)


Personally, the real product is the music, regardless of form. I think Sumerian knew exactly what they were doing when they signed them. They write unique and interesting songs, and definitely caught a lot of people's interest.



NSXTypeZero said:


> The last song, Machine Over, is definitely one of the best.


This. Definitely my favorite on the album, and one of my favorite songs of the year.


----------



## Fat-Elf (Dec 12, 2012)

NSXTypeZero said:


> The last song, Machine Over, is definitely one of the best.



Really looking forward to it then. I really need to go to buy the album this weekend.


----------



## ESP_ (Dec 12, 2012)

is there a certain video that displayed how bad al has played live? haven't been paying attention to these guys since their album was very bad (imo)


----------



## Big_taco (Dec 12, 2012)

I was at the St. Louis date and honestly was kind of bummed out by Haarp's set. They had a somewhat strong start but the momentum started to slow only a couple of songs in. That is at least in my eyes. Oliver and Alex seemed on point but Mike's mix was definitely on the low side and it seemed like Al was struggling to stay on time with Alex. I noticed quite a few spots where he was coming in a half or almost whole beat late on riffs. That wasn't limited to the crazier riffage either, it was across the board. Unrelated to his playing, the Peavey 3120 he was running out of sounded like butthole...a thin, fuzzy, butthole. Hopefully that's just a rental. 

I love the album and the live experience didn't ruin that. There were aspects that impressed me like the chemistry between Alex and Oliver, but over all I probably wouldn't go to a show just for The Haarp Machine for a few more tours at least. 

Also, Revocation put on the best show of the night. While I wouldn't say they wiped the floor with the Faceless they definitely won out in the energy department.


----------



## Sikthness (Dec 12, 2012)

I dont understand how the live show is the real product. Whats that make the cd, an ad for the real product? pretty stupid. The album is awesome, tons of cool riffs. Live shows dont look to thrilling to be honest, but so be it. I hear the Foo Fighters put on an amazing live show. However Im not a big fan of their music. So do I have to run out n see them live and become a fan because the real product is great? the band produces music. If you dont like the music on the cd, dont buy it. If you think their live performances are sub par or boring, dont go to them. People are so goddamn sensitive I swear. Here is an important newsflash, every musician you have ever listened to is somewhat worse in a live setting. Such is the nature of live performances. You know that actor you really like who kicked ass in that action scene a minute ago, yeah, that took 76 tries and then had to be edited to make it look perfect. Same shit for music. Al is a great song/riff writer (subjective), and a great player. No, he is not super human who can 100$accurately do those high speed string skips every night.


----------



## anomynous (Dec 12, 2012)

A band should be able to play the music live. Fact.



Al isn't playing "somewhat" worse than the album. He's royally fucking it up live. He's a great writer, but the live performance is lacking. Severely.


----------



## -Nolly- (Dec 13, 2012)

I actually love the drums on this record, Craig's performances are amazing and Eduardo's mix rules.


----------



## TIBrent (Dec 13, 2012)

anomynous said:


> A band should be able to play the music live. Fact.
> 
> 
> 
> Al isn't playing "somewhat" worse than the album. He's royally fucking it up live. He's a great writer, but the live performance is lacking. Severely.


I personally think what it comes down to is on record he has all the luxuries of an ideal performance environment. Proper mix levels, a click track, proper micing setup with a proper amp, proper eq settings where everynote is clear & exactly as desired, backing tracks played right from the DAW, right in front of a computer in a comfortable enviornment no doubt with a cup of coffee or tea to ease the mood. Live, it is another animal. Sound guys who really don't care much for you or your preferences, just decent levels on their end, an amp rig that is obviously WAY lacking, what looks to be no click, & a backing track that seems to constantly be either louder or quitter than the actual band members.
For me what the live performances have shown is that A, the dude can play. B, The guy is human & is obviously not a live performance veteran. c) & most importantly, there is a lot of room for improvement. That is the thing, I think Al is not comfortable in his own skin yet live, & playing with guys like Wes Hauch every night has got to be a pretty daunting task. Plus the dude had a lot to live up to, so...I say give it another tour or two, let him figure out he needs an axe fx live & not some over saturated peavey, let him learn to move around a little more on stage & relax, let him figure out how to better transition from lead to rhythm parts & I think he & the rest of the band will put on a killer show. Just my two cents.
-Brent


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## anomynous (Dec 13, 2012)

I hope he gets better.


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## Sinborn (Dec 13, 2012)

How old is Al'Mumin? I get the feeling that he's never played more than a local gig before The HAARP Machine. I heard he only brought one guitar (the Strandberg) on the tour. That screams inexperience.

I think the band needs two things.

- 2nd guitarist (backing tracks are ok live, just not a 2nd guitar track) with LIVE experience

- a 2nd album written and recorded with the same lineup that is going to tour it.

Give them time. BTBAM and Danza weren't the shizz on their first major release.


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## jaketheripper (Dec 13, 2012)

Someone i'm subscribed to just posted this:


It's not AWFUL... Not nearly as bad as the other videos that people have posted here. He hasn't uploaded any of the other videos of that show, yet.


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## The Reverend (Dec 13, 2012)

It takes time to develop the skills to play hard-to-hardest songs AND give a good performance. I don't like Glass Cloud, but seeing Josh play some of their techy riffs while going utterly insane is really impressive to me. I don't think anyone should be surprised that Al isn't playing at whatever his 100% seems to be. 

I could write a whole post about things you have to know to play live, to sound and perform your best, but I won't. I'd give Al a few more tours, then make judgements about his playing level and skills as a performer.


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## bhakan (Dec 13, 2012)

Yea, from what I can hear (which admittedly isn't much), he can play most of it fine, there are just certain parts where he completely loses it. Like others said, this could be just part of him being new to touring. 

Regardless,I love the album and the rest of the band. Whether Al can play flawlessly isn't a big deal to me.


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## isispelican (Dec 14, 2012)

im not a hater but talk about enjoying yourself on stage 1:30


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## Doug N (Dec 14, 2012)

Dude needs to get tighter before they subject their fans to this mess. You can't be fumble-fingering on stage.


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## Fat-Elf (Dec 14, 2012)

isispelican said:


> im not a hater but talk about enjoying yourself on stage 1:30




He was probably just annoyed because there was some obnoxious kid videotaping his face the whole time.


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## RagtimeDandy (Dec 14, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> He was probably just annoyed because there was some obnoxious kid videotaping his face the whole time.



This.  You try enjoying yourself where every show has someone or some twenty people filming you right up close and then getting buried by everyone that you cant perform live.


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## Aevolve (Dec 14, 2012)

Me, having breakfast with my father this morning: "I really want to learn a HAARP Machine song."
My father: "Don't they have to learn them first?"

...


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## NaYoN (Dec 14, 2012)

RagtimeDandy said:


> This.  You try enjoying yourself where every show has someone or some twenty people filming you right up close and then getting buried by everyone that you cant perform live.



Try saying that to Jeff Loomis or Tosin Abasi - they're the only thing the entire venue watch yet they are always brimming with energy AND don't mess up

Pro tip: if you get buried by everyone for not being able to play your music live, BECOME able to play your music live. It's called practice and it will work wonders.


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## TIBrent (Dec 14, 2012)

NaYoN said:


> Try saying that to Jeff Loomis or Tosin Abasi - they're the only thing the entire venue watch yet they are always brimming with energy AND don't mess up


Tosin - past touring experience with Reflux & Born of Osiris - 7 years +
Loomis - past touring experience with Nevermore back since when Nevermore/shred was very uncool 1994ish or so - 18 years +
Stage time = experience. + Messing = chance to improve 
-Brent


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## NaYoN (Dec 14, 2012)

TIBrent said:


> Tosin - past touring experience with Reflux & Born of Osiris - 7 years +
> Loomis - past touring experience with Nevermore back since when Nevermore/shred was very uncool 1994ish or so - 18 years +
> Stage time = experience. + Messing = chance to improve
> -Brent



That is true, but he didn't factor time into his statement. I was just countering what he said. Also, we know nothing about this guy. Maybe he does have previous stage experience with some unknown band like Tosin and Reflux.


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## Larrikin666 (Dec 14, 2012)

Time isn't relevant. Just like album, the live performance is a product people pay for. It's gonna go down 4 ways:

1. You play everything perfectly and still manage to be visually entertaining.
2. You move around a lot but screw up some of the parts.
3. You don't move at all and focus on executing the songs perfectly.
4. You don't move at all and still screw songs up.

I'm fine with 1-3. If you perform with ZERO energy, then I have very little interest in seeing your band live. I might still enjoy myself if it's a sonic masterpiece though. People don't pay money to watch a band learn how to perform live.


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## Equivoke (Dec 14, 2012)

isispelican said:


> im not a hater but talk about enjoying yourself on stage 1:30




Out of all those videos on that channel the only parts I would say are pretty shitty would be the Keys intro and solo. Definitely not the tightest live player ever.

Also lets be fair if we are critiquing, Semesky is pretty off on the faster sections with the harsh vocals. Ollie and Rudinger seem pretty spot on though.


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## The Reverend (Dec 14, 2012)

Larrikin666 said:


> I'm fine with 1-3. If you perform with ZERO energy, then I have very little interest in seeing your band live. I might still enjoy myself if it's a sonic masterpiece though. People don't pay money to watch a band learn how to perform live.



They don't? I'm pretty sure every mid-range tour I've been to had a local opener play just after doors who didn't know what in the fuck they were doing. I've been that band, too. You earn your performance skills, onstage, sweaty and in public. I have never seen a band with members who have no live experience and yet possess enough charisma, energy, and accuracy as a band who have played live extensively. 

But, of course, that's only my experience. YMMV.


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## Chris_Casket (Dec 14, 2012)

Its obvious he can play this stuff. It looks in every video to be a mix of things not going right (tone, equipment) 

Give him some more live/touring experience and i think he will improve greatly, the addition of a second guitarist would also help. There was talk of marc from VoM ive only seen them once but thought they couild also benefit from a second guitarist to help thicken out the sound and cover those little errors.

Good band, good first album give them time 
Just my 2 cents


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## abandonist (Dec 15, 2012)

This is just a clear case of "Not ready for prime-time yet."


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## Opion (Dec 15, 2012)

^ What he said.

Shit, I remember the first live video of AAL when they became an actual touring entity - Navene was having trouble getting used to playing some of the programmed stuff 'cause well, it was done on a computer. But they quickly became awesome live. These guys were unfortunately stigmatised with the whole "conspiracy" ordeal that I think's got a lot of people's ears raised, but I honestly think we shouldn't get onto them about it that much - they're coming into their own as a live band, given the circumstances, I think this is common.


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## ST3MOCON (Dec 15, 2012)

Some of the shit people bitch about on here is really annoying. Don't like them don't listen. Don't like them live, don't go. This entire thread is one huge bitchfest. I'm even bitching right now so on that note ima play some halo 4


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## gunch (Dec 15, 2012)

Sinborn said:


> Give them time. BTBAM and Danza weren't the shizz on their first major release.



Danza I was awesome what are you saying


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## Sikthness (Dec 15, 2012)

ST3MOCON said:


> Some of the shit people bitch about on here is really annoying. Don't like them don't listen. Don't like them live, don't go. This entire thread is one huge bitchfest. I'm even bitching right now so on that note ima play some halo 4



I think when a player starts gettin some buzz, then releases a cd that has technical and unique playing on it people feel the need to nit pick. Whether you like THM or not, the guy is a good player, and at the very least has some fresh sounding riffs. So then people on youtube, here, wherever realize their own playing and song writing is stale and really not that tight either, so they need to find the chink in the armor so they don't feel so bad. There are probably a bunch of people who were so relieved when they saw live videos where he couldnt perform 100%. They were probably psyched, and thought to themselves "oh thank god, now I can go complain on the internet about how much he sucks and then Ill inform my shitty by the the numbers bedroom djent band on how many imperfections there are in his live playing!".

I will say though, as much as I liked Disclosure, I have no desire to see them live after seeing some of these youtube videos. They almost completely lack any stage presence or energy, which is unfortunate.


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## Trespass (Dec 15, 2012)

Wow. Metal players have low standards if there are people actually defending this cat's lack of live performance chops. The guy has serious time issues, and needs to grab a metronome and start burning.

I don't give a shit what rock/metal tradition is, this doesn't fly at all in ANY other genre. It doesn't matter if you can hear the other guys or not - You're supposed to be able to keep a very strong internal pulse.


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## abandonist (Dec 15, 2012)

Sikthness said:


> I think when a player starts gettin some buzz, then releases a cd that has technical and unique playing on it people feel the need to nit pick. Whether you like THM or not, the guy is a good player, and at the very least has some fresh sounding riffs. So then people on youtube, here, wherever realize their own playing and song writing is stale and really not that tight either, so they need to find the chink in the armor so they don't feel so bad. There are probably a bunch of people who were so relieved when they saw live videos where he couldnt perform 100%. They were probably psyched, and thought to themselves "oh thank god, now I can go complain on the internet about how much he sucks and then Ill inform my shitty by the the numbers bedroom djent band on how many imperfections there are in his live playing!".



Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## anomynous (Dec 15, 2012)

Trespass said:


> Wow. Metal players have low standards if there are people actually defending this cat's lack of live performance chops. The guy has serious time issues, and needs to grab a metronome and start burning.
> 
> I don't give a shit what rock/metal tradition is, this doesn't fly at all in ANY other genre. It doesn't matter if you can hear the other guys or not - You're supposed to be able to keep a very strong internal pulse.



But zomg ur just a jeal0us hater dood man.


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## RagtimeDandy (Dec 16, 2012)

anomynous said:


> But zomg ur just a jeal0us hater dood man.



I think it's safe to say both sides of the argument have been established and any further discussion is just going further into the pit of despair...


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## valder (Dec 16, 2012)

Al didnt play at the show in phoenix last night, I guess he was sick. So they had to play with just the backing track....lame


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## ScottyB724 (Dec 16, 2012)

^ now THAT is lame. At that point you gotta just cancel your set.


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## bhakan (Dec 16, 2012)

ScottyB724 said:


> ^ now THAT is lame. At that point you gotta just cancel your set.


Why? If he couldn't play, and I payed to go to that concert and planned for the night and such, I'd rather see 3/4 of the band than none at all.


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## Sikthness (Dec 16, 2012)

abandonist said:


> Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



This may apply to certain posters, but for the most part what I wrote seems to be accurate. Esp considering that a lot of bands that get praise around here that are more established are just a sloppy live, more so in a lot of situations. People seem to severely butt hurt about this guy's playing on a level I haven't seen in a while. The whole half speed recording debacle, and now w/ the live playing. No reason to re hash all that crap. Like I said in my post, they definitely need to work on their live performance, thats true. But a whole lot of people seem to be receiving genuine pleasure over the fact that Al can't play 100% live.


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## Necropitated (Dec 16, 2012)

So here´s me playing the intro of Esoteric Agenda.


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## abandonist (Dec 16, 2012)

bhakan said:


> Why? If he couldn't play, and I payed to go to that concert and planned for the night and such, I'd rather see 3/4 of the band than none at all.



Are you serious??


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## AlMuiim (Dec 16, 2012)

wait he dint even show up to play that sucks i shud play their set for them lol


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## AlMuiim (Dec 16, 2012)

Someone reported that al mumin is goin to be replaced by lee mckinney from born of osiris


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## splinter8451 (Dec 16, 2012)

abandonist said:


> Are you serious??



I am sure he is serious. People have different opinions, I know it is hard to grasp. 

Also what is up with troll account mcgee up there  Brand new poster, 2 posts only, both in this thread with the name Almuiim AND intentionally horrible spelling/grammar?


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## AlMuiim (Dec 16, 2012)

whos a troll im the defeding of islam and my home boy almuslim ...im watchin live videos of the haarp machine and they rule so bugger off u bitches.....also i have a new puppy named Saturn


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## abandonist (Dec 16, 2012)

splinter8451 said:


> I am sure he is serious. People have different opinions, I know it is hard to grasp.
> 
> Also what is up with troll account mcgee up there  Brand new poster, 2 posts only, both in this thread with the name Almuiim AND intentionally horrible spelling/grammar?



I just can't imagine going to see a band with only a guitar backing track. I think they're lame to start with, but that's getting closer and closer to White People With Laptops.


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## AlMuiim (Dec 16, 2012)

theyre not lame to start with they are possibly the best band out there fyi


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## abandonist (Dec 16, 2012)

Not the band - backing tracks.

I like the band.


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## Blasphemer (Dec 16, 2012)

abandonist said:


> White People With Laptops.









Sorry, I couldn't help myself.


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## AlMuiim (Dec 16, 2012)

I heard the reason he dint play was because he cudnt find strings for his new strandberg.....................questionable character this guitarist


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## Fat-Elf (Dec 16, 2012)

AlMuiim said:


> I heard the reason he dint play was because he cudnt find strings for his new strandberg.....................questionable character this guitarist



For a second I believed that until I saw your name. Go away dude. Have this "the most obvious troll of the year award" while you're at it.


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## AlMuiim (Dec 16, 2012)

lol ok btw new AAL is going to rip! tosin and I jus finished more one for the album!

Bye!


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## Equivoke (Dec 16, 2012)

A video of guitar-less Haarp



I'd definitely prefer to see 3/4's of the band rather than none and just try and get a good view of Oliver. I'm curious to here the actual reason to why Al couldn't play that night though. 



Necropitated said:


> So here´s me playing the intro of Esoteric Agenda.




Sick man.


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## DLG (Dec 16, 2012)

they actually sound decent when it's just the backing track haha

man how times have changed, if a band came out in the 80s or even 90s with a backing track instead of a guitar player I guarantee that they would get abused and pelted by beer bottles until they left the stage.


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## HighGain510 (Dec 16, 2012)

I still don't get why everyone is continuing to rag on him so hard for his live performances? Yes, he's not nailing everything, no one is going to contest that fact.  But seriously, AFAIK this is his first time playing live isn't it? Not everyone is amazing when they play live, especially the first time, and it's entirely possible that Al is a little uncomfortable when it comes to playing in front of people.  Not making excuses for him, but that's a huge part of why I never got into gigging... get really shaky when I'm playing in front of others and it's not something that's gotten better over time, just a thing with my nerves.  

Cut the dude a break, and if you don't like the music or want to continue hating on the band, take it elsewhere. It's not contributing anything to the thread and that argument about "don't play live if you can't play your material perfectly!" has already been made a dozen times.  I for one hope he can improve to the point where he can pull off everything flawlessly, but I'm realistic and understand not everyone who can throw together a perfect YouTube video of them playing in their bedroom will be able to do the same thing when standing in front of a crowded room of what is likely a bunch of REALLY anal/angry guitarists hoping you'll fuck up so they can tear you apart on an online forum later.


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## abandonist (Dec 16, 2012)

DLG said:


> they actually sound decent when it's just the backing track haha
> 
> man how times have changed, if a band came out in the 80s or even 90s with a backing track instead of a guitar player I guarantee that they would get abused and pelted by beer bottles until they left the stage.



That's what I'm saying!!!

I'd be dead-insulted if a band tried to get away with that shit at a show I went to.


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## WhiteWalls (Dec 16, 2012)

So his first time EVER PLAYING LIVE is in an overseas tour, opening for The Faceless while being signed to one of the fastest growing labels? Am I the only one who thinks something's not right?


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## sakeido (Dec 16, 2012)

only reason ppl are hating so hard I think is because bulb & nolly came in and shit on the last thread. then nolly showed up in this one with some passive-aggressive "well the drums are cool" thing then lo and behold the thread backslid into this garbage again. I guess being an awesome songwriter just ain't enough


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## abandonist (Dec 16, 2012)

sakeido said:


> I guess being an awesome songwriter just ain't enough



Not if you're playing it live and fucking it all up - then no, no it's not. Stick to the studio.

I don't know who Bulb and Nolly are.


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## HighGain510 (Dec 16, 2012)

abandonist said:


> Not if you're playing it live and fucking it all up - then no, no it's not. Stick to the studio.
> 
> I don't know who Bulb and Nolly are.



Or you could find something more constructive to do with your time than continuing to beat a dead horse?


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## abandonist (Dec 16, 2012)

I'll stop when people stop apologizing for the dude.


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## Cancer (Dec 16, 2012)

Uh, I know I'm a bit late to this party, but i just saw THM with the Faceless at Empire. I stood right in front of Mumin and he looked like he nailed it to me.


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## bhakan (Dec 16, 2012)

abandonist said:


> Are you serious??


For the record, I'm not saying I like the idea of using a backing track instead of a guitarist, but shit happens sometimes. If half an hour before the show, something happened to prevent Al from playing, they've got to do something, and I'd be more pissed if none of them played than if one of them couldn't.


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## NaYoN (Dec 16, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> Or you could find something more constructive to do with your time than continuing to beat a dead horse?



Let's take the heat away from Al a bit then. Is it me, or is Mike Semesky off-time in most of the vids I've seen? I mean his voice is fine but his timing seems to be off mostly. Alex Rudinger seems to have no issues and I honestly can't hear the bass so I don't know about that guy, but the guitarless vid posted on the previous page made it look like Mike was off. Going back to the other vids, he sounded off-time on those too I never noticed because I was paying attention to Al.

So I guess my point is that the band should have perhaps practiced more before embarking on this tour. No big deal, and Mike's voice is great, but his timing needs work - probably because the band hasn't had time to adjust to each other.


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## Necropitated (Dec 16, 2012)

I really mike's perfomance in this video.
Though there are some timing-problems.


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## Equivoke (Dec 16, 2012)

NaYoN said:


> Let's take the heat away from Al a bit then. Is it me, or is Mike Semesky off-time in most of the vids I've seen? I mean his voice is fine but his timing seems to be off mostly.



Haha yeah I mentioned it a page or two back but no one seemed interested. It seems it's mostly the busy screaming sections, especially Escapist notion.



abandonist said:


> I'd be dead-insulted if a band tried to get away with that shit at a show I went to.



I think you are being a bit dramatic, we don't know why Al didn't play that gig and I don't see what they are "getting away with". They performed as a 3 piece with backing tracks, it doesn't seem like there is much deception going on to be offended or "dead insulted" about.


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## abandonist (Dec 16, 2012)

imo backing tracks are bullshit to start with. I didn't pay to see a tape recording of one of the members. Just cancel and reschedule.


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## gunch (Dec 16, 2012)

Honestly I feel kind of duped that Mu'min came out like he was this mysterious dark horse virtuoso and then all of this happened. I feel even dumber for trying to defend him in the last thread.

That said he's got some good songwriting going and I hope he can get over this and improve for the future.


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## sakeido (Dec 17, 2012)

tech metal: where being really fucking good at guitar just isn't good enough


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## DLG (Dec 17, 2012)

sakeido said:


> tech metal: where being really fucking good at guitar just isn't good enough



that's actually the whole point. 

there are about 400 brutal death metal bands for every technical death metal band. it's an elite company and if you can't play at the level, you shouldn't.


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## Maniacal (Dec 17, 2012)

^ Exactly

I don't see many jazz bands or concert pianists playing along to CDs. 

Don't write technical music you can't play live and get signed to a big label, earning money from music you can't play. It just isn't right. You should be experienced if you are in a "virtuoso" group. People are paying to see something amazing, to be inspired.


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## sakeido (Dec 17, 2012)

DLG said:


> that's actually the whole point.
> 
> there are about 400 brutal death metal bands for every technical death metal band. it's an elite company and if you can't play at the level, you shouldn't.



and once again it seems like the Haarp Machine writing WAY better songs than any of these other shitty tech bands could even dream of counts for nothing.


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## jakrentschler (Dec 17, 2012)

everyone needs to cut this band some slack. Rudy is a very good friend of mine and i know how hard he and the rest of The HAARP Machine have worked to get where they are. The bottom line is this is their first tour. They've had computer problems, gear problems, merch guy problems, etc and that stuff can be very stressful for a band to handle while having to play songs as difficult as their's live. Give them some more time, they'll blow you away once they get it all together.


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## Necropitated (Dec 17, 2012)

My attempt on the intro of Lower The Populace.
The slides are a bit sloppy. And thanks to JosepAOI for
the tab


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 17, 2012)

silverabyss said:


> Honestly I feel kind of duped that Mu'min came out like he was this mysterious dark horse virtuoso and then all of this happened. I feel even dumber for trying to defend him in the last thread.
> 
> That said he's got some good songwriting going and I hope he can get over this and improve for the future.



What are you talking about? The internet hyped this band and guitarist to levels that are absurd. He never came out as a mysterious virtuoso, they just didn't release any content or information and kept things under wraps. Don't blame them for getting your own hopes up due to OTHERS praising a band with very little to show for other than a commercial, a play through, and preproduction demos.

I love Disclosure, it's an awesome record, but personally the live show is inexcusable, they played their "first" show last year in september. And it looks practically identical to the videos of recent shows, hasn't the band learned anything? Or primarily Al since they replaced two members.



jakrentschler said:


> everyone needs to cut this band some slack. Rudy is a very good friend of mine and i know how hard he and the rest of The HAARP Machine have worked to get where they are. The bottom line is this is their first tour. They've had computer problems, gear problems, merch guy problems, etc and that stuff can be very stressful for a band to handle while having to play songs as difficult as their's live. Give them some more time, they'll blow you away once they get it all together.



Feedback in the beginning, Al looking around to try and fix issues, the singer's mic not working. The only thing I enjoyed more about this performance, was that they were moving around a lot more. So the occasional fuck up was completely warranted when your head is spinning and your hair is everywhere. But point is, this isn't their first tour ever they've played in front of crowds before and they should know better.


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## DLG (Dec 17, 2012)

sakeido said:


> and once again it seems like the Haarp Machine writing WAY better songs than any of these other shitty tech bands could even dream of counts for nothing.



firstly, that's you're opinion, I think that they are incredibly boring personally. Sounds like Necrophagist lite with cornball Killswitch-esque vocals to me, but that's not the point. 

secondly, it's not the entire point, but at least 85 percent of the point/attraction of technical metal is that you are playing something that not many other people can play. 

Anyone can write super-complex songs using guitar pro, not many can play them. 

That's the point you are missing. 

Ron Jarzombek probably wrote these song in the same way that Al Mumin wrote his songs. 

But then he sat down and learned how to play them before making an album out them.



and that's why (along with several other reasons) he is a tech metal god and al mumin is an average player who is good at composing complex riffs on his computer.


----------



## sakeido (Dec 17, 2012)

DLG said:


> firstly, that's you're opinion, I think that they are incredibly boring personally. Sounds like Necrophagist lite with cornball Killswitch-esque vocals to me, but that's not the point.


and see necrophagist had a couple good tunes but all the rest, to me, is 100% completely by the book neoclassical. it doesn't surprise me all that much they don't have another new album out because judging from the two he does have, he had nothing in the tank. both albums sound exactly the same. 


> secondly, it's not the entire point, but at least 85 percent of the point/attraction of technical metal is that you are playing something that not many other people can play.


and that's why any shred-heavy genre is usually total ass. nothing is less interesting to listen to than guys going "lookit what I can do!" and nothing is more depressing to me then so many guys thinking that music & showing off are the same thing. 


> Anyone can write super-complex songs using guitar pro, not many can play them.
> 
> That's the point you are missing.


prove it then, crank out a tune as good as Haarp or Bulb at their best in guitar pro... very few people can actually write good songs. if everybody could be a good songwriter, maybe I wouldn't be so disillusioned about metal as a genre right now 



> and that's why (along with several other reasons) he is a tech metal god and al mumin is an average player who is good at composing complex riffs on his computer.


lol wow if al mumin is only an average player, I might as well have no fingers on my left hand. tech metal fanboys


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## JoeyW (Dec 17, 2012)

Kenji20022 said:


> What are you talking about? The internet hyped this band and guitarist to levels that are absurd. He never came out as a mysterious virtuoso, they just didn't release any content or information and kept things under wraps. Don't blame them for getting your own hopes up due to OTHERS praising a band with very little to show for other than a commercial, a play through, and preproduction demos.




See, I don't know about that. I feel like how he presented himself and his band was very ominous and the edited .Strandberg* commercial did make him seem like some sort of evolved human being.

As a lot of people have said, it's their first tour. Shit happens. Al can obviously play, but he seems to be having some timing issues- whether or not that's a personal hurdle or just an issue with playing live we can't say just yet. The only thing that will for sure happen is that they WILL get better. I think the album is brilliant and very inspiring, I really hope that all of this internet hate doesn't discourage them.


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## valder (Dec 17, 2012)

ScottyB724 said:


> ^ now THAT is lame. At that point you gotta just cancel your set.


 
exactly...I feel bad for them though. They're not scoring any points with a lot of people haha


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## HighGain510 (Dec 17, 2012)

Maniacal said:


> ^ Exactly
> 
> I don't see many jazz bands or concert pianists playing along to CDs.
> 
> Don't write technical music you can't play live and get signed to a big label, earning money from music you can't play. It just isn't right. You should be experienced if you are in a "virtuoso" group. People are paying to see something amazing, to be inspired.



It's a good thing they never claimed to be a "virtuoso group" then, eh...?  Personally, I enjoy the music on their album. From your post above, if he can't pull it off live, it's better for him to have never written it at all and made money from it? Sorry, I can't agree with you there.  I'm glad they put the album out, I can enjoy it when I'm driving to work without having to see them play it live. If you are so bothered by it, why keep watching videos of them playing live or going to their shows? If you stop subjecting yourself to it, you could save yourself from being so clearly upset about it.  It really is a silly thing to get yourself all worked up over in the grand scheme of things.


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## mattofvengeance (Dec 17, 2012)

This thread is like watching two chimpanzees try to fuck the same coconut.


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## glassmoon0fo (Dec 17, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> It's a good thing they never claimed to be a "virtuoso group" then, eh...?  Personally, I enjoy the music on their album. From your post above, if he can't pull it off live, it's better for him to have never written it at all and made money from it? Sorry, I can't agree with you there.  I'm glad they put the album out, I can enjoy it when I'm driving to work without having to see them play it live. If you are so bothered by it, why keep watching videos of them playing live or going to their shows? If you stop subjecting yourself to it, you could save yourself from being so clearly upset about it.  It really is a silly thing to get yourself all worked up over in the grand scheme of things.


 
MOTHERFUCKING THIS.


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## Opion (Dec 17, 2012)

mattofvengeance said:


> This thread is like watching two chimpanzees try to fuck the same coconut.






......




This thread.


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## Trespass (Dec 17, 2012)

sakeido said:


> tech metal: where being really fucking good at guitar just isn't good enough



But he's not "really fucking good".

Go to your nearest large city center (ie Calgary). Guaranteed there are at least a couple hundred cats that could not only play this stuff, but play it in time. Studio guys, touring guys, jazz grads, metal players in the scene.

In other words, professional musicians. 

And the moment this guy got signed to a label and started touring, -started playing professionally-, he started to get judged to a professional standard. Absolutely right in my books. 

A possible solution? Brand yourself a composer/songwriter, get a more competent guitarist to play the hard parts. Works for x classical composer, the Beatles/Paul McCartney etc. etc.


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## sakeido (Dec 17, 2012)

Trespass said:


> But he's not "really fucking good".
> 
> Go to your nearest large city center (ie Calgary). Guaranteed there are at least a couple hundred cats that could not only play this stuff, but play it in time. Studio guys, touring guys, jazz grads, metal players in the scene.



we must not be watching the same live vids then, because in some of them he absolutely nails really tricky rhythm parts that most of these guitar store heroes couldn't play because they only practice sweeps and scalar runs

sure there are a few vids where he fucks up easy parts, butchers his own solo or just stops playing but there is a lot out there showing he can play his own stuff. not often enough, but if your only issue as a live guitarist is consistency you are on the right track. experience is the only thing that helps with that, and he's getting it right now 

you think this shit is a big deal? I saw Van Halen on their last tour with Sammy Haggar. Eddy was so fucked out of his head he couldn't play anything and spent his big solo spot lying down on the stage twiddling with his volume knob, and he was playing arena shows all across North America. Al's live performances are perfectly godlike compared to that bullshit. he's just got to keep at it. 

don't get the hate train for this guy at all. He has a questionable character and is probably crazy. Right now his lofty vision exceeds what he can actually accomplish but that does not make him even remotely unique in any music circle. but why is nobody letting his music stand for itself?


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## Xarn (Dec 17, 2012)

sakeido said:


> don't get the hate train for this guy at all. He has a questionable character and is probably crazy. Right now his lofty vision exceeds what he can actually accomplish but that does not make him even remotely unique in any music circle. but why is nobody letting his music stand for itself?



Welcome to technical metal. When Necrophagist released their demos they hadn't played a single live show, people were rambling on forums that there was no way this dude could pull that shit off, they proved the haters wrong. Same stuff with the early bulb stuff, Zyglrox, Insomnia to name a few, he proved them wrong. Spawn of possession, another fine example where people doubted that they could pull it off. 

Haarp machine? Al hasn't convinced anyone - thus the hate lives on. 

Though I don't personally care, I like the cd and that's good enough for me. But this rambling on professional musicians isn't exactly new, but I just think they got a little too hyped and too soon. Should've done more shows while they were unsigned to get some more experience.


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## RagtimeDandy (Dec 17, 2012)

My personal opinion is if you can't play it, don't write it. I personally write music to keep improving. I can barely play the songs I write when I'm writing them, and by the time I record them it takes several takes to get it down...but give it a few months and I can play the stuff flawlessly. If you have to record at half speed, you're doing it wrong (yes I know impossible riffs being played perfect on CD, etc.) 

If you can't play your songs...don't play your songs.


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## Equivoke (Dec 17, 2012)

Hate to be a dick (I don't really)



RagtimeDandy said:


> My personal opinion is if you can't play it, don't write it.





RagtimeDandy said:


> I can barely play the songs I write when I'm writing them



Contradicting yourself in half a line is pretty quick


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## RagtimeDandy (Dec 17, 2012)

Equivoke said:


> Hate to be a dick (I don't really)
> 
> Contradicting yourself in half a line is pretty quick



I fail to see the contradiction. I learn how to play the songs. My point is Al still can't even months after recording.

Also, barely =/= needs to be recorded at half speed. I can play the riffs but its difficult.


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## glassmoon0fo (Dec 17, 2012)

You guys are all STILL whining like bitches over something you have no control of, literally a few weeks after another thread got closed for the exact same thing. Can we move past this bullshit yet? Goddamn.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm mad bro.


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## Jonathan20022 (Dec 18, 2012)

glassmoon0fo said:


> You guys are all STILL whining like bitches over something you have no control of, literally a few weeks after another thread got closed for the exact same thing. Can we move past this bullshit yet? Goddamn.
> 
> EDIT: Yeah, I'm mad bro.



This is a discussion forum, you don't have to participate dude. Just saying, no one's whining they're the ones who will reap what they've sown not us. But I believe we can freely discuss it as long as we'd like, I get the fact that it's been discussed before but this time we're discussing the aftermath of what happened in the last thread. The live show, which was inevitable is lackluster, the people who paid to see it are either disappointed or pissed, and be mad all you want but it's going to be said and discussed until it's deemed inappropriate.


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## glassmoon0fo (Dec 18, 2012)

We always hear that when people seem to have gotten a tast for beating their head up against a brick wall. It's played out, just like this last two pages.


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## Jonathan20022 (Dec 18, 2012)

glassmoon0fo said:


> We always hear that when people seem to have gotten a tast for beating their head up against a brick wall. It's played out, just like this last two pages.



Well like I said, enjoy your stay. It's obviously not going to end, and no one here is whining. 

So basically, I feel like he just got too comfortable with his studio and recording settings. I mean the video I posted from a year ago compared to their first gig this year doesn't seem very different from one another. Maybe he's just not into playing live shows like I am, I dislike playing live because I'm not a clean enough player to play my shit perfectly every night. One day I might be, but I'm not presenting myself in any other way!

Plus that backing track thing is just silly, I'd rather see the Faceless for a longer set than hear a BT replace Al.


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## Metalus (Dec 18, 2012)

Sikthness said:


> I dont understand how the live show is the real product. Whats that make the cd, an ad for the real product? pretty stupid. The album is awesome, tons of cool riffs. Live shows dont look to thrilling to be honest, but so be it. I hear the Foo Fighters put on an amazing live show. However Im not a big fan of their music. So do I have to run out n see them live and become a fan because the real product is great? the band produces music. If you dont like the music on the cd, dont buy it. If you think their live performances are sub par or boring, dont go to them. People are so goddamn sensitive I swear. Here is an important newsflash, every musician you have ever listened to is somewhat worse in a live setting. Such is the nature of live performances. You know that actor you really like who kicked ass in that action scene a minute ago, yeah, that took 76 tries and then had to be edited to make it look perfect. Same shit for music. Al is a great song/riff writer (subjective), and a great player. No, he is not super human who can 100$accurately do those high speed string skips every night.



Agreed


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## drmosh (Dec 18, 2012)

Do we really want this thread closed again? This is some ridiculous shit. The amount of pure hate stemming from jealousy is just ridiculous.


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## IronGoliath (Dec 18, 2012)

I thought their live performances in terms of everyone BUT their vocalist; was really abysmal. I hope that that changes soon. They can all play really well; but it's a live show not a rehearsal. I despise poor stagecraft.

Edited because dumbass grammatical errors.


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## abandonist (Dec 18, 2012)

drmosh said:


> Do we really want this thread closed again? This is some ridiculous shit. The amount of pure hate stemming from jealousy is just ridiculous.



Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I can do this all day.


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## anomynous (Dec 18, 2012)

Love the fact that everybody who has negative things to say are jealous haters who are trying to get the thread closed.


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## abandonist (Dec 18, 2012)

anomynous said:


> Love the fact that everybody who has negative things to say are jealous haters who are trying to get the thread closed.



Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read up.


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## anomynous (Dec 18, 2012)

No wai, I'm so enlightened now.



Except for the fact that what I stated was actually said above me.


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## abandonist (Dec 18, 2012)

Your implication that everyone are just jealous is a logical fallacy. That's what a straw man is. You're arguing a point that no one is talking about. I can be absolutely sure I'm not jealous of Mr Mu'min. Doesn't mean I can't criticize him. Or state my opinions on backing tracks. In fact, I quite like the record, but their live shows are pretty abysmal if that's what's going on at them. It's not even about how technical or simple your songs are. It's about playing them well in front of people. No shame in being a studio band - lots of them out there. I've turned down several guitarist gigs due to my lack of wanting to drive all over the place to play shows. But if I did go ahead with it, I better know my material, and how to play it properly, or people would laugh me off the stage - and rightfully so. I have no sympathy for the guys in HAARP. They're out there playing songs for people that paid to see those songs, and doing it badly. If you had a coworker that was doing a terrible job and making all of you look bad, would you be super forgiving, or would you tell him to get his shit together? I don't hate these fellas (far from it - like I said, I enjoy the record), but they're not immune to criticism. Especially if they're botching songs and playing without their guitarist to a recording. That's unprofessional in the extreme. 

To take the point a little further, everyone is allowed an off night. It's unfortunate, but it does happen. Sometimes we have a server call out and the food takes longer to arrive, sometimes one of our cooks isn't producing at the proper pace. Things happen. But from the looks of it, it's happening _a lot_, and without much in the way of grace. All guy needs to do is have a little humility and laugh it off "Sorry guys... this stuff is super hard!", but he's not. If his face is any indication of his internal struggle it's going something like "Fuck this shit!", and that's good for no one. Especially himself.


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## isispelican (Dec 18, 2012)

There is a reason for all this hate and its the huge and unfair amount of hype this band has gotten these last two years. Lets admit it, do you think that the majority of the people were impressed by the actual songwriting or the never before heard cleanness and perfection of his playing? Look at the youtube comments, most people dont know or dont believe that these videos (playthroughs and studio diaries) are "fake", and thats the reason for spreading the word. They call Al the "next Tosin" or "next guitar god" without knowing whats actually going on. On top of that, he makes a lot of mistakes live and half of the stuff is on backing tracks. So, my point is that there are ALOT of other talented bands out there that deserved this spot (sumerian, fame, faceless tour) much more than the THM.


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## -Nolly- (Dec 18, 2012)

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## straightshreddd (Dec 18, 2012)

Woah, now this thread is making me study psychology.


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## TIBrent (Dec 18, 2012)

Opinionated discussion is one thing, brash repetitive negativity especially while trying to sound clever...that is another. If the thread doesn't suite you, move on, simple as that, we have a lot of great open threads here. 
-Brent


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## HighGain510 (Dec 18, 2012)

TIBrent said:


> Opinionated discussion is one thing, brash repetitive negativity especially while trying to sound clever...that is another. If the thread doesn't suite you, move on, simple as that, we have a lot of great open threads here.
> -Brent



Agreed 100%. Or better yet, if you REALLY feel the need to continue such a negative discussion, start a new thread and take it there if the mods allow it?


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## morgasm7 (Dec 18, 2012)

I understand that this may seem overly negative or perhaps even petty to new fans of the band or bystanders, but I do feel that this discussion is extremely pertinent to the thread and it would be a shame to silence the people taking part. The release of the HAARP Machine album and the associated promotion lead to a certain expectation, and this discussion is simply an opportunity for people to voice their opinion on whether they think the live performance of the band has met this.


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## technomancer (Dec 18, 2012)

*All right, enough is enough. This is turning into a borderline troll fest as it's literally the same people having the same argument saying the same things over and over again. Time to drop it unless you want some time off.

In fact closing this clusterfuck and starting a new thread (again )*


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