# Engl Savage 120 Mk II....



## TedintheShed (Feb 7, 2019)

Does anyone know the price USD and release date? I can't find anything. I wanna anal punch...

Thanks, 
Ted


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## Wizard of Ozz (Feb 7, 2019)

Interested as well.

I saw they were coming soon on a German dealer site priced at $2100 USD + shipping

Engl finally listed it on their website now too.


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## TedintheShed (Feb 7, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Interested as well.
> 
> I saw they were coming soon on a German dealer site priced at $2100 USD + shipping
> 
> Engl finally listed it on their website now too.



If that is the price, I'm sold.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 7, 2019)

Weren't they like $2400 - $2500 for the MkI version? I'm guessing the ESP deal actually made a difference?


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## TedintheShed (Feb 7, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Weren't they like $2400 - $2500 for the MkI version? I'm guessing the ESP deal actually made a difference?



I don't know. Sweetwater carries ESP. I'm hoping they add Engl.


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## ThePIGI King (Feb 7, 2019)

^This. Came here to mention it. ENGLs are probably my favorite amps, despite not owning any tube amps. The ESP site lists GC to get them as well as Axe Palace, so i am hoping to get to try some here soon.

I didnt see Sweetwater on the list, but they might still get them.


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## TedintheShed (Feb 7, 2019)

ThePIGI King said:


> ^This. Came here to mention it. ENGLs are probably my favorite amps, despite not owning any tube amps. The ESP site lists GC to get them as well as Axe Palace, so i am hoping to get to try some here soon.
> 
> I didnt see Sweetwater on the list, but they might still get them.



Yeah, they've always carried Engl. I'm hoping the ESP distribution will add Sweetwater. That's who I like to buy from even though I owned an Ironball that I got from GC.


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 7, 2019)

I mean if you want a savage, there's a white tolexed mk1 on GC for 1300 right now...


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## Wizard of Ozz (Feb 7, 2019)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Weren't they like $2400 - $2500 for the MkI version? I'm guessing the ESP deal actually made a difference?



You are correct sir. I hope they are a bit cheaper too. Either way, really want to check one out. Looks like they are using new transformers in these as well. I can see bell ends on the transformers in the demos and the MK1 didn’t have those.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 7, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> You are correct sir. I hope they are a bit cheaper too. Either way, really want to check one out. Looks like they are using new transformers in these as well. I can see bell ends on the transformers in the demos and the MK1 didn’t have those.



Sweet. It was wishful hoping, but I was hoping given they have an actual distribution network now, prices would go down on Engl amps. If that ends up happening, then sweet.


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## sakeido (Feb 7, 2019)

It'd be nice if prices went down. I eventually got to a point of being extremely unhappy with my Invader but it was a fun amp for quite a while... I'd probably still have it if I had never tried to use it live. It sounded absolutely killer in the room by itself and the power section was wicked for modelers. I would have been a lot happier with it if it only set me back $3,000 instead of $4,000 Canadian. 

Get the Savage mkII out there for $2,100usd/$3k-ish CAD and I'm all over it. I've wanted to try one forever. 

That said... the Savage mkII has a lot of features and is 4 channels. I'm thinking it's a lot more likely it comes in at a price the same or even a bit higher than the Invader mkII currently is ($3,000 USD) because the Savage seems to be the only Engl left with a good reputation.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Feb 7, 2019)

https://www.thomannmusic.com/engl_savage_120_e_610_2_mkii.htm


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## TedintheShed (Feb 7, 2019)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> https://www.thomannmusic.com/engl_savage_120_e_610_2_mkii.htm



Shipping costs would be... prohibitive. Plus, I'm not familiar with VAT.


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## Meeotch (Feb 7, 2019)

There shouldn't be any VAT for amps shipped to the USA. But I would expect import duties, not sure how much.


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## sakeido (Feb 8, 2019)

iirc taxes are 10% plus any applicable state tax. You can't get Engls shipped to you from Thomann anyway, add the cost of a plane ticket to fly there and pick it up yourself and you are spending basically the same money you would by buying it from an NA dealer..

if you look at the price relative to the Invader on Thomann it's about $100 less. that puts it at $2,900 at current Engl prices.. hopefully ESP brings overall Engl prices down.


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## Wizard of Ozz (Feb 8, 2019)

sakeido said:


> iirc taxes are 10% plus any applicable state tax. You can't get Engls shipped to you from Thomann anyway, add the cost of a plane ticket to fly there and pick it up yourself and you are spending basically the same money you would by buying it from an NA dealer..
> 
> if you look at the price relative to the Invader on Thomann it's about $100 less. that puts it at $2,900 at current Engl prices.. hopefully ESP brings overall Engl prices down.



Check the link... it's a Thomann USA website, they ship to the US... with the prices listed in USD$ (estimated due to the exchange rate)... not Euros. And shipping is estimated at $30... sounds low as heck, but I'll call them if them come in stock. Just need to make sure it is a 120V not 240V model.


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## sakeido (Feb 8, 2019)

uh huh




I always check the link. Any Engl product throws the same error. you can get it shipped to Mexico though


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## Wizard of Ozz (Feb 8, 2019)

sakeido said:


> uh huh
> 
> View attachment 66917
> 
> ...



Well that sucks arse. Why even list it then?  

Weird. Hopefully the price here in the US is similar... not $3K. 

I wonder about shipping to Canada?


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## sakeido (Feb 8, 2019)

Canada shipping is a super low price, like $45. I do an annual trip to Mexico so I could always ship it down there and bring it back in my luggage. I'd be worried about the amps being 240V though..

On the flip side Canada's largest music store carries ESP and they always have great prices and shipping is free if you order it through a retail location so I'm going to check with those guys when the amp is actually released. The return policy is amazing too which always helps if you don't get on with some new gear. They tend to get new stuff the moment it comes out too.


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## omgitsjustme (Feb 9, 2019)

Last year I told myself if there was an ENGL Savage 2 just like there is a powerball/ invader 2 I probably would’ve purchased it over buying an ENGL Special Edition, which I own now. How do you guys think this amp will compare?


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## Djep (Feb 9, 2019)

omgitsjustme said:


> Last year I told myself if there was an ENGL Savage 2 just like there is a powerball/ invader 2 I probably would’ve purchased it over buying an ENGL Special Edition, which I own now. How do you guys think this amp will compare?



That's the right question! Special Edition was around 1950€ on sale and Savage mk2 2333€. Wife didn't let me buy the SE.


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## Boris_VTR (Feb 9, 2019)

sakeido said:


> It'd be nice if prices went down. I eventually got to a point of being extremely unhappy with my Invader but it was a fun amp for quite a while... I'd probably still have it if I had never tried to use it live. It sounded absolutely killer in the room by itself and the power section was wicked for modelers. I would have been a lot happier with it if it only set me back $3,000 instead of $4,000 Canadian.
> 
> Get the Savage mkII out there for $2,100usd/$3k-ish CAD and I'm all over it. I've wanted to try one forever.
> 
> That said... the Savage mkII has a lot of features and is 4 channels. I'm thinking it's a lot more likely it comes in at a price the same or even a bit higher than the Invader mkII currently is ($3,000 USD) because the Savage seems to be the only Engl left with a good reputation.



What issues did you had when playing live with Invader?


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## prlgmnr (Feb 10, 2019)

sakeido said:


> uh huh
> 
> View attachment 66917
> 
> ...


I like "Please switch to another delivery country"

_Fine,_ I'll emigrate so you can ship me an ENGL.


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## Boris_VTR (Feb 10, 2019)

Was it always like that for USA or it's new thing since ESP and ENGL joint distribution?


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## sakeido (Feb 11, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> What issues did you had when playing live with Invader?



got crushed in the mix by a more vintage voiced amp the other guitarist used. whatever sound did make it through sounded very harsh and brittle. works for some bands (Dimmu Borgir) but it didn't work for me

Savage is supposed to a lot more mid biased so I really wanna try it


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## Boris_VTR (Feb 11, 2019)

sakeido said:


> got crushed in the mix by a more vintage voiced amp the other guitarist used. whatever sound did make it through sounded very harsh and brittle. works for some bands (Dimmu Borgir) but it didn't work for me
> 
> Savage is supposed to a lot more mid biased so I really wanna try it



I only play metal so all my comments are about metal mix.

I don't know why you would have this issue in mix. I have seen/heard bands with way darker amps and scooped mids and they were fine. Bands used low budget solid state amps or modelers (lately even using plugins from Logic Pro) and twin guitar mix was fine. Maybe Savage has more mids than Invader but I'm not sure if it would solve your issue. I do have mids at around 2 or 3 o'clock (so pretty high) and if that would not cut throug mix....I would not want to be in that band because it's like mids war. It's almost like scooped mids era but reversed.

I usually check artist settings when they use amps that are supposed to not cut through mix (Savage is among this amps here on this forum). And they don't have mids all that high and they seem to cut in mix. For example, when Jeff Loomis used ENGL on Nevermore last tour, he had mids on like 1 o'clock (he used Savage SE on channel 3 for rhytm by the way . It's funny because nobody give channel 3 any credit or positive review ). If he uses any EQ pedal in loop I don't know. I also checked Ron Bumblefoot Thal ENGL Invader settings and his mids are also at around 1 'clock. So not that high. He sounded ok in the mix with second guitarist (acording to him, he used Invader with G'N'R also - this is Marshall mids teritorry to me )

I have been to concerts with bands using 5150 and guitars were just not heard (according to this forum, this never happened ever). Maybe it comes down to mixing guy?

You mentioned Dimmu Borgir and when I checked them on their tours (2004 and in 2009 I believe) - both guitars were not heard  I believe they used Engl savage at that time? I always believed that mixing guy was relative and they didn't want to heart this feelings


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## sakeido (Feb 11, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> I only play metal so all my comments are about metal mix.
> 
> I don't know why you would have this issue in mix. I have seen/heard bands with way darker amps and scooped mids and they were fine. Bands used low budget solid state amps or modelers (lately even using plugins from Logic Pro) and twin guitar mix was fine. Maybe Savage has more mids than Invader but I'm not sure if it would solve your issue. I do have mids at around 2 or 3 o'clock (so pretty high) and if that would not cut throug mix....I would not want to be in that band because it's like mids war. It's almost like scooped mids era but reversed.
> 
> ...



I just went back to find old live vids and can't believe that shit was 8+ years ago. My ears have come a long way since then, maybe I could dial the amp in better these days... hard to say.


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## Boris_VTR (Feb 11, 2019)

sakeido said:


> I just went back to find old live vids and can't believe that shit was 8+ years ago. My ears have come a long way since then, maybe I could dial the amp in better these days... hard to say.



Time sure flys fast 

Price also plays huge part. Here in Europe used Savage is priced the same as used 6505+. I believe that is fair price. But on other parts of the world price do jump high for ENGL amps and I understand frustration. Same is with Mesa here


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## Mwoit (Feb 12, 2019)

Has anyone tried the Savage 60? I noticed they have a MkII 60 out and after messaging ENGL, it's due out around Spring. I've not really seen much on the 60W brethren.


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## Mwoit (Feb 13, 2019)

Ah well, I emailed Thomann regarding pricing, they replied with:



Thomann said:


> the amp would cost *2190.00 EUR* and should be in stock approx 09.05.2019



Might as well get the 120W version which is at 2290.00 EUR...


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## gnoll (Feb 13, 2019)

I saw a Savage 60 used in a shop once, and considered getting it. After having done some research about it it seemed nobody thought it was very good compared to the 120 so I didn't bother with it. It has EL34's btw. It's interesting that they're bringing it back as it doesn't feel like it was ever really popular.


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## oneblackened (Feb 13, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> I only play metal so all my comments are about metal mix.
> 
> I don't know why you would have this issue in mix. I have seen/heard bands with way darker amps and scooped mids and they were fine. Bands used low budget solid state amps or modelers (lately even using plugins from Logic Pro) and twin guitar mix was fine. Maybe Savage has more mids than Invader but I'm not sure if it would solve your issue. I do have mids at around 2 or 3 o'clock (so pretty high) and if that would not cut throug mix....I would not want to be in that band because it's like mids war. It's almost like scooped mids era but reversed.
> 
> ...


 My experience is the same as Sakeido's, fwiw. Something about the super-compressed nature of Engls makes it so they get drowned out by amps with a bit more girth and body to them e.g. Rectifiers or 5150s. Live sound through a mixer is a completely different issue though IMO.


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## TedintheShed (Feb 13, 2019)

Boris_VTR said:


> Time sure flys fast
> 
> Price also plays huge part. Here in Europe used Savage is priced the same as used 6505+. I believe that is fair price. But on other parts of the world price do jump high for ENGL amps and I understand frustration. Same is with Mesa here



I'm curious- how much does a VH-4 cost there?


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## Boris_VTR (Feb 13, 2019)

TedintheShed said:


> I'm curious- how much does a VH-4 cost there?



So Diezel VH-4 amp is 2900 EUR here. For comparison, new Mesa JP-2C is around 3900 EUR.


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## TedintheShed (Feb 13, 2019)

Wow.

$4400 for a VH-4
$2750 for a JP-2c



Boris_VTR said:


> So Diezel VH-4 amp is 2900 EUR here. For comparison, new Mesa JP-2C is around 3900 EUR.


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## Boris_VTR (Feb 13, 2019)

oneblackened said:


> My experience is the same as Sakeido's, fwiw. Something about the super-compressed nature of Engls makes it so they get drowned out by amps with a bit more girth and body to them e.g. Rectifiers or 5150s. Live sound through a mixer is a completely different issue though IMO.



I do not find Savage to be super-compressed so I do not believe there should be any problem paring it with 5150 or Rectifiers. If you use channel 3 and tube screamer (like everybody with 5150 or Rectifier) that there should not be any problem cutting with Savage 120 or Savage SE.

You think that Savage are super-compressed? Or were you talking about Powerball/Fireball/Invader?

Also I do not remember if I ever have been to concert that didn't use PA.

Jen Majula (Evanesence) is using Powerball and I do not see any problem hearing her. Also Judas Priest and Kiss (Paul Stanley is/was using custom blackmore). I do not like to drop names, I only use them as example of good sound man making amps be heard.

Here is Jeff Loomis using Channel 3 on Savage SE for rhytm:


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## TedintheShed (Apr 5, 2019)

Bump.

It's been a couple of months- wondering if there is any word yet?


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## Boris_VTR (Apr 7, 2019)

Oddly enough there is no news about it. Not sure why they even sent demo unit to person who haven't carred for ENGL in almost a decade. And results was almost no existant. And to only one person. Usually company spams youtube with their payed reviews.
I love Savage but it looks like it is not making any comeback. Not sure if any big band is using it at the moment.


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