# Heavy riffs w/o tuning down?



## vejichan (Dec 18, 2012)

Any suggestions on new chords or chordal/rrythmn ideas etc to get heavy sounding riffs staying in regular 440 w/o tuning down?


----------



## vejichan (Dec 18, 2012)

heavy like evergrey/dream theater/periphery/ola englund


----------



## Winspear (Dec 18, 2012)

Plenty of heavy riffs in standard tuning  But you are aware that Periphery play in mostly C and Ab right? 

But a cool technique to use is inverting powerchords to be rooted on a the non-existent 7th string. For example EAD 5-5-7 where the root is on the A string rather than the E string - a 5 string bass wold play fret 3 on the B string under this for example.


----------



## McBonez (Dec 18, 2012)

Suspended chords work wonders for adding a fullness too. Adds a lot of depth as opposed to a standard power chord. My band uses them a lot in choruses and breakdowns.


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Dec 18, 2012)

vejichan said:


> Any suggestions on new chords or chordal/rrythmn ideas etc to get heavy sounding riffs staying in regular 440 w/o tuning down?



A couple things:

 A440 is still A440, whether you tune to E standard, D standard, C standard, whatever. Want to tune to some different reference pitch? That's fine. Recalibrate your tuner, it won't change your life in some profound way.

 Higher frequencies have a smaller sonic footprint than lower frequencies. I could talk about masking, the harmonic series, the way your ear hears sound (pay attention to the warnings on that link if you go about using that test), and all sorts of acoustic physics jargon, but suffice it to say that you'll be able to voice chords more clearly in the mid and treble range, and that the lower you put a chord, the muddier it will become.

Stay away from open strings, study some harmony, brush your teeth. Note choice and rhythm has more to do with feel than how low your instrument is tuned.


----------



## toiletstand (Dec 18, 2012)

you can study a band like dillinger escape plan. all their stuff is in standard tuning


----------



## ChronicConsumer (Dec 18, 2012)

Dream Theater is predominantly played on seven strings I think, with a couple of songs per album in D standard. Periphery is mostly drop Ab with the occasional drop C, as far as I know.

If you're looking for some heaviness in E standard, check out the Blackwater Park album by Opeth, and the Focus album by Cynic. Also, Pantera is pretty close to standard tuning I think.


----------



## Berserker (Dec 18, 2012)

Early Sepultura always sounded really heavy despite being in standard tuning... I think it depends alot on your guitar tone rather than techniques. The Black Album by Metallica is another one that stands out to me.


----------



## TRENCHLORD (Dec 18, 2012)

It's how the notes relate to each other that gives the impression of heaviness IMO.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 18, 2012)

My first guitar teacher:



> ...you can be heavy in ANY tuning



Something I picked up from Paul Giilbert is adding in a 5th below the chord you'e currently playing. So for example... Play a B power chord on your A string and add in the F# below.

Sounds "similar" to playing an open B5 on a 7 string but not quite. It's a good way to get some heavier sounding chords w/o having to downtune, though.


----------



## troyguitar (Dec 18, 2012)

Master of Puppets


----------



## redstone (Dec 18, 2012)

Yeah, return to the source bro Sepultura - Beneath the Remains (Full album) - YouTube


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 18, 2012)

troyguitar said:


> Master of Puppets





That whole album.


----------



## trickae (Dec 18, 2012)

redstone said:


> Yeah, return to the source bro Sepultura - Beneath the Remains (Full album) - YouTube


and chaos AD by sepultura


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (Dec 18, 2012)

troyguitar said:


> Master of Puppets



Don't forget ..and Justice for all. Balls heavy guitars on that album. Shortest Straw? Frayed Ends of Sanity? HEAVY! ..and in E standard


----------



## troyguitar (Dec 18, 2012)

I was going to say Justice as I find the guitars heavier and the songs better but the lack of bass makes the record as a whole feel less heavy.


----------



## Randy (Dec 18, 2012)

Both in E Standard, both heavy as fuck:





I'm somebody that sticks to E Standard as much as I can, as well.

One of the tricks I've noticed makes things "heavier" in my riff writing are using the Gb or F power/barre chords preceding notes on the open E string. The difference between the two notes being so close, with the E obviously being the lower, gives a dynamic that makes the E sound that much lower. I get a lot of the same effect by playing an E minor chord, then dropping from the 2nd fret on the D and A strings, down to the first fret.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Dec 18, 2012)

Was gonna post Master's Apprentices earlier actually. Nice one.


----------



## Experimorph (Dec 18, 2012)

always comes to mind. 9:57-> is one heavy chug. Same album as Master's Apprentices.

It's already been mentioned, but playing fourths/inverted fifths/however you want to call it makes the sound somewhat ballsier. Avoid open strings for power chords.

You can sound heavy in any tuning. I always found it was more about note relation on the guitar; the guitar itself isn't a really heavy sounding instrument, most of the balls comes from the bass and the drums.


----------



## Brill (Dec 20, 2012)

I have my 8 string tuned to Bb,B,E,A,D,G,B,E. A semitonal interval make everything sound much heavier than it is.


----------



## noise in my mind (Dec 20, 2012)

check out the first deftones album adrenaline. the whole thing is in standard tuning.


----------



## Manurack (Dec 20, 2012)

VBCheeseGrater said:


> Don't forget ..and Justice for all. Balls heavy guitars on that album. Shortest Straw? Frayed Ends of Sanity? HEAVY! ..and in E standard


 
Dude, listen carefully to the Shortest Straw and Frayed Ends of Sanity, those songs are played in Eb standard, down-tuned half a step


----------



## Berserker (Dec 20, 2012)

Manurack said:


> Dude, listen carefully to the Shortest Straw and Frayed Ends of Sanity, those songs are played in Eb standard, down-tuned half a step


 
Not on my copy...


----------



## Manurack (Dec 20, 2012)

Berserker said:


> Not on my copy...


 
Than you must be tone deaf. 

Listen to Blackened, fast forward to 2:32. That is an open E power chord.

Now listen to the beginning of both The Frayed Ends of Sanity and the Shortest Straw. 

Both of those songs are recorded in half a step down tuning. Half of Justice is down tuned.


----------



## Manurack (Dec 20, 2012)

Manurack said:


> Than you must be tone deaf.
> 
> Listen to Blackened, fast forward to 2:32. That is an open E power chord.
> 
> ...


 

Hahahaha my bad guys, I started my nightshift at 1 am with 3 hours of sleep, and it's been a LONG time since I listened to Justice. 
Just listened to the album and Frayed Ends of Sanity and Shortest Straw are in E standard


----------



## Berserker (Dec 20, 2012)

Manurack said:


> Hahahaha my bad guys, I started my nightshift at 1 am with 3 hours of sleep, and it's been a LONG time since I listened to Justice.
> Just listened to the album and Frayed Ends of Sanity and Shortest Straw are in E standard


----------



## SP1N3SPL1TT3R (Dec 20, 2012)

Celtic Frost - Dethroned Emperor (live Hammersmith Odeon '89) - YouTube


----------



## goldsteinat0r (Dec 20, 2012)

noise in my mind said:


> check out the first deftones album adrenaline. the whole thing is in standard tuning.



I strolled on in to recommend this record for inspiration.

Also someone mentioned voicing powerchords with the 5th in the bass. Thats a good way and was used a lot before downtuning was popular (Richie Blackmore, et al)

Also Bands like BTBAM use that technique with downtuned (but not drop tuned) six strings to give everything a fatter sound.


----------



## Duelbart (Dec 21, 2012)

Besides all the harmonic advice in this thread, listen to this advice from mr Townsend about picking and playing with beat:



Starts about third minute.


----------



## danresn (Dec 21, 2012)

Standard tuning. Sylosis is pretty damn heavy.

Lesson from one of the guitaris/singer himself.


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (Dec 24, 2012)

Manurack said:


> Hahahaha my bad guys, I started my nightshift at 1 am with 3 hours of sleep, and it's been a LONG time since I listened to Justice.
> Just listened to the album and Frayed Ends of Sanity and Shortest Straw are in E standard



You had me second guessing myself for a minute there. 

On the flipside, LOAD is downtuned to Eb and sure as hell doesn't sound heavier than justice or MOP


----------



## DarkWolfXV (Dec 24, 2012)

Hammer Smashed Face is in Eb Standard
Cattle Decapitation is in Eb Standard.
Go and crush some skulls by studying them.


----------



## guitarfishbay (Dec 24, 2012)

Was going to post about Sylosis but someone already beat me to it! Great call. Heavy playing is as much about the rhythm and the chord voicing as it is the low notes, and Sylosis is a great example of that.

Anything thrash based is worth checking out for heavy rhythm playing without the downtuning. So many Metallica riffs are heavy as you can get from a rhythmic standpoint. Battery is one of my favourite heavy riffs of all time. Sure, guitar tones have moved on since the original, but play that riff through a more 'modern' tone and tell me it isn't heavy


----------



## Mega-Mads (Dec 24, 2012)

D - 4
A - 2
E - 2


----------



## astralsearcher (Dec 25, 2012)

if you have never listened to rust in peace by megadeth you are doing yourself a disservice. the first minute of take no prisoners for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL752-bVgLs


----------



## Orsinium (Jan 28, 2013)

I second listening to Cynic. Also just accent notes with the kick drum and bass and it helps to make everything sound heavier.


----------



## MrPepperoniNipples (Jan 28, 2013)

A lot of thrash bands from back in the day played in standard, and some today still do.

Here's a nice instrumental tune for ya
Some really heavy riffs in here


1:20 there's a riff in there that you could 'learn' from if you're looking to get something out of this
A lot of how intense or heavy a riff is also has to do with its entrance and the drumming, and I think the way that riff is introduced is a perfect demonstration of that.


----------

