# What's the story with Troy Grady?



## Stilicho

I've just found Troy Grady's "Crack the Code" series and I was wondering if anyone has ever bought any of his materials and found them useful?

I'm interested in the idea of someone breaking down the mechanics of picking but the website gives off strong snake-oil salesman vibes. The other thing is that I can't imagine anything ground-breaking that guitarists don't already know, and his "pickslanting" series seems to just be a 5 hour elaboration on economy picking from what I've been reading.

I'm a decent enough guitarist, but I've been struggling to push my sixteenth note scales past 195bpm and I'm not sure if this is a technique issue or if I just need to practice more. (I've been easing off of metronome practice to learn more songs recently.) So I guess I'm getting a little greedy and looking for "secrets" when I should know better...

Anyway, any and all opinions are welcome!


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## cwhitey2

He's legit.

Ben Eller loves him and I love Ben so he equals win.

But really I have tried to get into him and it's not for me...


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## Randy

Pickslanting is not economy picking, it's alternate picking and changing your pick angle based on optimizing where your pick winds up when you switch strings during fast runs.

Essentially, picking perfectly flat or with the wrong slant for your run makes it so you're stuck between two strings and have to 'jump' one string (imagine an ascending 3NPS run, starting with picking down) on your way to the next. Being conscious of your pick slanting makes it so you're ''outside" the strings on your way to the next one. I know somebody who worked at it and it was a legitimate 'ah ha' immediate jump in his optimal speed.

To Grady and his methods overall, he makes very well produced lessons (some of the best editing I've seen, well beyond much bigger companies). There's also something to be said about the mechanical analysis he employs, much like analyzing the mechanics of an athlete vastly effects their performance. His introductory docs on YT (the stuff about Yngwie for example) make a convincing appeal as to why analyzing mechanics matter.


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## Stilicho

Thanks guys, I watched a bit of Ben Eller and he's pretty great so I'll look into some free material I can find on pickslanting and see if I find it worth buying.

Thanks for clarifying what pickslanting is as well Randy, people like you are why I've been using this forum to find answers to all my questions for the past 4 years and finally made an account last week to get more involved in the community.


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## skmanga

Ive seen him break down and analyze a players technique at a very micro level!
For a self taught guy whos made many technique mistakes throughout the years, his videos are awesome.


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## groverj3

I had a similar inclination when I first saw his videos, it looked almost "too well produced" to be legit. However, his technique analysis is most definitely not snake oil. It's legit.

Honestly, I never paid for his real lessons and exercises, but just the idea of pick slanting immediately made so much sense to me. It explained perfectly why I wasn't getting more accurate by simply repeating exercises ad nauseum with a metronome. I'm not sure why I never intuited how to improve my technique like this, but maybe because my teachers in the past, or video lessons I'd seen, were guys that just magically figured it out on their own without instruction at that micro of a level and figured that things like this come naturally. Or, and I think it's more likely, they simply never bother to really analyze their own technique to see what they do.

I heard so much nonsense from teachers, and other people, who claimed to know how to improve your technique and none of it has ever held up:

Person 1: "You must pick fast how you pick slow. It's what I do!"
Me: *Watches intently* "Nope, full of shit. That is not what you're doing."

Person 2: "You must play with a closed hand to be fast."
Me: "Obviously nonsense, more players don't play like that."

Person 3: "Pick only with this one particular wrist motion."
Me: "Explain player x y or z that doesn't do that and is better than you."

Person 4: "Always avoid 'inside' the strings picking."
Me: *Watches other, better, players* "Clearly not everyone thinks this is hard."

etc...

The pick-slanting/crosspicking stuff isn't the only way to improve your picking mechanics, but at least it makes sense and I've seen results in my own playing after I took some time to actually invest in doing it. Not that I always do it consistently, but I'm not even sure that's the point. To use the appropriate pick-slanting technique when necessary seems reasonable.

I think that guitar instruction is still pretty awful when it comes to technique compared to lots of other instruments out there. Too much emphasis on "play this lick a billion times and slowly increase the settings on your metronome" and not enough "this is how you position your hand, and this is the motion to make in this situation, backed up with examples and clear demonstrations."

This was kind of a rant, but TLDR: Troy Grady's stuff is definitely worth a watch even if you don't want to shell out money.


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## QuantumCybin

Gotta throw in a +1 for Troy, his free Cracking the Code series on YouTube is like watching a informative TV show; it’s edited so well and really goes deep into techniques and also a little bit of biography on Grady’s journey as a guitar player himself. The pick slanting technique is explained super in depth, and it helps with the really great animations that he puts in to show exactly how changing the angle or slant of your pick helps to eliminate wasted energy down to the atomic level 

I still play like shit, but hey, the videos are fantastic and if you’re actually motivated to become a better player you’ll get a lot out of them!


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## Stilicho

Just an update for everyone: I found a torrent of Cracking the Code: Season One and it's great. It gives a narrative of guitar history as well as giving a great insight into this "pickslanting" technique which is a big help to my alternate picking speed. I could play fast already, but it's nice to escape from the economy picking technique that I assumed was the be-all-and-end-all of playing fast.

Plus, like everyone said, the production is unbelievably good. I'll probably subscribe when I get paid. Great content and thanks for getting me to look into it!


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## prlgmnr

Season 1 is all on Youtube anyway.


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## Drew

Stilicho said:


> Just an update for everyone: I found a torrent of Cracking the Code: Season One and it's great. It gives a narrative of guitar history as well as giving a great insight into this "pickslanting" technique which is a big help to my alternate picking speed. I could play fast already, but it's nice to escape from the economy picking technique that I assumed was the be-all-and-end-all of playing fast.
> 
> Plus, like everyone said, the production is unbelievably good. I'll probably subscribe when I get paid. Great content and thanks to everyone for getting me to look into it!


Why bother? Season 1 and 2 are available for free on YouTube. 

I'm a Cracking the Code subscriber - I'd been a fan of his series on Youtube for a while now, and figured he was doing good enough work that even if I didnn't get a ton of mileage out of the added content, it would at least be money spent to support something that I'd already felt like I'd gotten my money's worth. Besides, I was recoverign from shoulder surgery (still am, it was January of this year), so I figured it was a perfect opportunity to unlearn bad habits. 

As far as what you get for your money, I'd say that most of the critical observations Troy has made about picking technique are covered in Seasons 1 and 2. What a membership gets you is 1) a LOT more detail, particularly on how Yngwie's picking technique actually informs a lot of his _fretting hand_ decisions, which is pretty fascinating stuff, and 2) some really good deep dives on a number of other artists, which helps drive home the point that there's no one right solution, but rather there's a lot of different ways to go about picking mechanics, and if you've been playing for a long time, odds are you have at least a partially-formed solution to string changes in your picking mechanic so you can focus on finding ways to improve and enhance what you're already doing, rather than relearning a whole new technique. In my particular case, it turned out that what I was doing was actually a fairly well-formed crosspicking mechanic not too dissimilar from Andy Wood's, and that by dialing out a little bit of excess supplination and more consciously embracing the slightly arc'd mechanic, I was able to smooth things out a fair amount. 

As an aside, his site's forum is free to the public, and while it's not too busy and while there's a range of abilities and understanding about picking mechanics there, there's also some REALLY good info in there. 

I'm of the mindset that this is the single best thing they've produced: 


You're gonna think I'm crazy at first, but trust me - the ability to start to deconstruct the mechanical process that drives your particular pick stroke is incredibly powerful, and it's cool when you suddenly begin to see how all the various parts fit together. 

So yeah... I get that it sounds a lot like "this one weird trick will improve your guitar playing!" but Troy's doing pretty impressive work, and it's helped me a lot. Besides, the first season in particular is just fun - it brings me back to being a teenager in my bedroom playing guitar, and the feeling of hearing something that just leaves your jaw on the floor.


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## Stilicho

>Why bother? Season 1 and 2 are available for free on YouTube. 
Lol, I've gotten into such a bad habit of torrenting everything I want that I didn't even think of checking YouTube.


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## Drew

Stilicho said:


> >Why bother? Season 1 and 2 are available for free on YouTube.
> Lol, I've gotten into such a bad habit of torrenting everything I want that I didn't even think of checking YouTube.


Subscribe to his youtube channel, there's a lot of good content over and above the seasons he posts. 

Also, if you like something, pay for it.  Support good creative work, for god's sake!


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## Stilicho

Drew said:


> Subscribe to his youtube channel, there's a lot of good content over and above the seasons he posts.
> 
> Also, if you like something, pay for it.  Support good creative work, for god's sake!


What I usually do is torrent something to try it out - well, just if I can't find a demo - then I buy them. I bought TH3 for example after the demo blew me away. Don't worry, I know the importance of encouraging good content makers when there's so much crap out there 

And I subbed to the channel there, lots of good stuff for free.


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## Drew

Yeah, honestly what first really caught my attention on thge CtC stuff _wasn't_ all the pickslanting/edgepicking/stringhopping/etc stuff which DOES read a lot like sales-y jargon, so much as his transcription of a run Vai plays at the start of the Crossroads duel scene, which was both really well put together as a production, but also an impressively thoughtful, analytical, and well-reasoned deconstruction of the run. He's a very methodical student of the guitar, and brings a lot of thought into his work - and it shows.


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## Stilicho

Drew said:


> Yeah, honestly what first really caught my attention on thge CtC stuff _wasn't_ all the pickslanting/edgepicking/stringhopping/etc stuff which DOES read a lot like sales-y jargon, so much as his transcription of a run Vai plays at the start of the Crossroads duel scene, which was both really well put together as a production, but also an impressively thoughtful, analytical, and well-reasoned deconstruction of the run. He's a very methodical student of the guitar, and brings a lot of thought into his work - and it shows.


I agree, the sales jargon really turned me off at the start. Yep that was the first thing I saw when I went to the channel and it's a great exposition on Steve Vai's technique. I'm actually pretty excited to work through more of his content. Should be a big help with pushing my alternate picking past 200bpm. 

I'll make a note to _try _to keep this thread updated with a before/after comparison after I have a few weeks/months to focus on my alternate picking speed since I have plenty of free time over the next few months.


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## Semi-pro

Very good and in-depth material. All the clips are totally worth watching. HOWEVER, I made the stupid mistake of buying the season pass before I realized that you can see all the material on youtube. Just a few tabs for your buck to the licks that he already shows in the episodes. "Well, at least he's going through some interesting artists in the future episodes" I thought. Now 2+ years have passed by and they're trying to milk more money with all these different stuff (masters of mechanics etc) instead of going on with the series.

All in all, good material but everything that's out there for free is already covering all the important stuff.


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## prlgmnr

I don't know if Masters in Mechanics is so much "milking more money" as "presenting unprecedented insights in to the techniques of a range of players" but one man's something is another's something else as they say.


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## Semi-pro

prlgmnr said:


> I don't know if Masters in Mechanics is so much "milking more money" as "presenting unprecedented insights in to the techniques of a range of players" but one man's something is another's something else as they say.



Sure, but wasn't that supposed to be the original idea of Cracking the Code more or less? MoM is literally the reason the show has come to a halt. I asked about it a long time ago and the reply was that coming up with MoM was necessary in order to continue the show. In other words, ask money from a new service in order to produce the other content you've already received the money for. I don't care what it's called, but doesn't seem too contradictory to having the "snake oil" word pop up above.

Honestly, I'm very happy for all the content Troy has put out. I much rather have it than nothing similar at all  But they shouldn't have taken advance payments of something that they still haven't been able to deliver.


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## USMarine75

Stilicho said:


> I've just found Troy Grady's "Crack the Code" series and I was wondering if anyone has ever bought any of his materials and found them useful?
> 
> I'm interested in the idea of someone breaking down the mechanics of picking but the website gives off strong snake-oil salesman vibes. The other thing is that I can't imagine anything ground-breaking that guitarists don't already know, and his "pickslanting" series seems to just be a 5 hour elaboration on economy picking from what I've been reading.
> 
> I'm a decent enough guitarist, but I've been struggling to push my sixteenth note scales past 195bpm and I'm not sure if this is a technique issue or if I just need to practice more. (I've been easing off of metronome practice to learn more songs recently.) So I guess I'm getting a little greedy and looking for "secrets" when I should know better...
> 
> Anyway, any and all opinions are welcome!



He's a Yale nerd who took all of the old REH type vids and broke them down like they were the Zapruder film and discovered common trends among many of the 80s/90s shredders.

But, the really great thing about Troy (subscriber here) is that he is open to other techniques. He's not pushy about how DWPS is the only way to achieve speed and accuracy. His episode with Martin Miller and his technique is probably my favorite, because he's gushing over a guy that only mildly uses his DWPS and mostly uses other styles.

The main complaint I hear is that he is long winded. But he's a technique nerd and you can see he genuinely LOVES this stuff. He also has the older Cracking the Code, which is more of a slickly produced historical documentary of pick slanting, verses the newer technique episodes which cover the same material but are more to the point.


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## Stilicho

I'm really not complaining about him being long-winded, it's actually a joy just to watch the videos and enjoy the story-telling aspect.


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## USMarine75

Stilicho said:


> I'm really not complaining about him being long-winded, it's actually a joy just to watch the videos and enjoy the story-telling aspect.



Oh yeah that was more of a general comment not targeted at you. I guess I still have residual anger from a thread at TGP where a bunch of self-flagellating d-nozzles were hating on Troy lol. [tl;dr "too many notes" was every other post.]


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## Stilicho

USMarine75 said:


> Oh yeah that was more of a general comment not targeted at you. I guess I still have residual anger from a thread at TGP where a bunch of self-flagellating d-nozzles were hating on Troy lol. [tl;dr "too many notes" was every other post.]


Oh I know you weren't dude, but if you want to get real angry you can give this a watch:

This is actually what made me start this thread.


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## Drew

USMarine75 said:


> But, the really great thing about Troy (subscriber here) is that he is open to other techniques. He's not pushy about how DWPS is the only way to achieve speed and accuracy. His episode with Martin Miller and his technique is probably my favorite, because he's gushing over a guy that only mildly uses his DWPS and mostly uses other styles.


Actually, Troy himself says these days he's mostly defaulting to a crosspicking technique. 

But, again, I think while the initial lesson I took away was "DWPS is the way to alternate pick fast!" as the material goes on and as Troy's analysis continues, really it becomes increasingly clear that the initial focus on DWPS is largely a product of Troy's huge amount of respect for Yngwie Malmsteen annd the amount of time he dedicated to breaking down his technique, and then that he followed him with Eric Johnson, another guy who was mechanically similar but in a very different area. in the Masters of Mechanics stuff and Pickslanting Primer, they dedicate a lot of time to analyzing guys with an upwards pickslant (John McLaughlin, a couple acoustic players), two-way pickslanters (Batio being the one they really hone in on), and lately crosspickers - the Molly Tuttle footage is pretty damned humbling, and Troy is currently working on material based on Andy Wood and Steve Morse's crosspicking technique. 

So, yeah, if you want to learn how to downwards pickslant, and if you understand how it works mechanically enough to work out what you can and can't do witj it and build your own licks around that, then there's probably not much added value in subscribing unless you want to go deep down the Yngwie or Eric Johnson rabbithole... But, I think the bigger message of his research (because, really, that's what it is) is that mechanically changing from one string to the next poses serious challenges to the picking hand, and there are a LOT of mechanical solutions different players have hit upon over the years to address that, each with their unique pros and cons. 

I'd say, bare minimum, sign up for a free membership to access the free content and forum on his site, if you're curious.


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## Drew

Stilicho said:


> Oh I know you weren't dude, but if you want to get real angry you can give this a watch:
> 
> This is actually what made me start this thread.




This comment is spot on, by the way.  



> NickJennison1 year ago
> Guy does upward pickslanting in both examples. No downward pickslanting to be seen. Ironically, this is the reason he's unable to execute the lick starting on a downstroke, and the reason for his self-professed preference for starting the lick on an upstroke. Perhaps he'd benefit from subscribing to Troy's material, eating some humble pie and learning something. I know it helped me immeasurably (as a player, but even more so as a teacher), and I'm definitely not too proud to admit it.


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## Stilicho

Drew said:


> Actually, Troy himself says these days he's mostly defaulting to a crosspicking technique.
> 
> But, again, I think while the initial lesson I took away was "DWPS is the way to alternate pick fast!" as the material goes on and as Troy's analysis continues, really it becomes increasingly clear that the initial focus on DWPS is largely a product of Troy's huge amount of respect for Yngwie Malmsteen annd the amount of time he dedicated to breaking down his technique, and then that he followed him with Eric Johnson, another guy who was mechanically similar but in a very different area. in the Masters of Mechanics stuff and Pickslanting Primer, they dedicate a lot of time to analyzing guys with an upwards pickslant (John McLaughlin, a couple acoustic players), two-way pickslanters (Batio being the one they really hone in on), and lately crosspickers - the Molly Tuttle footage is pretty damned humbling, and Troy is currently working on material based on Andy Wood and Steve Morse's crosspicking technique.
> 
> So, yeah, if you want to learn how to downwards pickslant, and if you understand how it works mechanically enough to work out what you can and can't do witj it and build your own licks around that, then there's probably not much added value in subscribing unless you want to go deep down the Yngwie or Eric Johnson rabbithole... But, I think the bigger message of his research (because, really, that's what it is) is that mechanically changing from one string to the next poses serious challenges to the picking hand, and there are a LOT of mechanical solutions different players have hit upon over the years to address that, each with their unique pros and cons.
> 
> I'd say, bare minimum, sign up for a free membership to access the free content and forum on his site, if you're curious.


Yeah I'm after spending all day looking at Troy's stuff and I can see the tremendous value of what he's doing. It's remarkable that I didn't find him sooner. 

I think your point about DWPS being one of many techniques is also an important one. I was immediately struggling to understand why anyone would be moving from the b -> e string from an upstroke, but that's my economy picking prejudice coming through - I frequently rewrite solos for example so I can fit them into nice up-and-down patterns. I'm going to have a hard time getting used to it, but at least it will be another tool to use.


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## Drew

Stilicho said:


> Yeah I'm after spending all day looking at Troy's stuff and I can see the tremendous value of what he's doing. It's remarkable that I didn't find him sooner.
> 
> I think your point about DWPS being one of many techniques is also an important one. I was immediately struggling to understand why anyone would be moving from the b -> e string from an upstroke, but that's my economy picking prejudice coming through - I frequently rewrite solos for example so I can fit them into nice up-and-down patterns. I'm going to have a hard time getting used to it, but at least it will be another tool to use.


Well, maybe. 

The other alternative is, something you're already doing _now_ is an equally efficient string-switching mechanic, and there will be ways you can either improve that, or adjust your phrasing to take advantage of that. For example, Yngwie is a downward pickslanter so he'll be working from a different perspective than you, but he tends to handle 3-note-per-string patterns or any pattern with an odd number of notes that starts with a downstroke with economy picking when he's going from a lower string to a higher one, and an upstroke when he has an even number of strings. In both cases, either using an upstroke to "escape" from the strings and then move the pick, or a downstroke to sweep to the next string, are valid ways of switching from a lower to a higher string, so which you're doing depends on what pickstroke you happen to land on or which the next string is. In Yngwie's system when you get into trouble is a downstroke but then needing to change to one _lower_ string, which simply doesn't work. He either avoids them, or copes by pulling off rather than picking the last note, etc.


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## Stilicho

Drew said:


> Well, maybe.
> 
> The other alternative is, something you're already doing _now_ is an equally efficient string-switching mechanic, and there will be ways you can either improve that, or adjust your phrasing to take advantage of that. For example, Yngwie is a downward pickslanter so he'll be working from a different perspective than you, but he tends to handle 3-note-per-string patterns or any pattern with an odd number of notes that starts with a downstroke with economy picking when he's going from a lower string to a higher one, and an upstroke when he has an even number of strings. In both cases, either using an upstroke to "escape" from the strings and then move the pick, or a downstroke to sweep to the next string, are valid ways of switching from a lower to a higher string, so which you're doing depends on what pickstroke you happen to land on or which the next string is. In Yngwie's system when you get into trouble is a downstroke but then needing to change to one _lower_ string, which simply doesn't work. He either avoids them, or copes by pulling off rather than picking the last note, etc.


I get you. Like you said in your post above, the bigger point of his research is about finding efficient ways to escape to another string and it's up to you to use these techniques in your own playing.


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## Element0s

Masters in Mechanics subscriber here and I post on their forum as well. I think it's the best thing going right now.


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## Mathemagician

Stilicho said:


> Oh I know you weren't dude, but if you want to get real angry you can give this a watch:
> 
> This is actually what made me start this thread.




I got bored trying to watch that video. If you’re going to look like if the WoW nerd from South Park lost weight while insulting people, at least have a script/some comedic timing. I kept fast forwarding but it was just this mouth breather going “uhhh uhhh uhhh you know”


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## Stilicho

Mathemagician said:


> I got bored trying to watch that video. If you’re going to look like if the WoW nerd from South Park lost weight while insulting people, at least have a script/some comedic timing. I kept fast forwarding but it was just this mouth breather going “uhhh uhhh uhhh you know”


Levi's videos on transcribing and some other topics are interesting, but he's very unlikable generally. 

I remember watching that video and I thought Troy was a charlatan since he wasn't explaining why Ursin was wrong and just kept going like "oh, well, that's an ad hominem" and other such stuff, felt like they had some sort of arrangement and so I started this thread  

I've spent a lot of time looking at Troy Grady's site since then however and I've been learning a huge amount about picking technique. Definitely recommend checking out his YouTube channel.


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## CerealKiller

I think that while Troy's concepts are interesting and very effective if you are struggling with picking, his videos just have way too much filler material for me.


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## Stilicho

CerealKiller said:


> I think that while Troy's concepts are interesting and very effective if you are struggling with picking, his videos just have way too much filler material for me.


Especially the Cracking the Code series, but if you want a narrative on the "arms race" that EVH started it's actually pretty entertaining. Here's one of his most concise videos on 2WPS:

Pretty much explains everything you need to know. 

I'm finding his five hour deep-dive into Yngwie's style very helpful for giving me new ideas though, definitely not as much filler as CtC.


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## Drew

CerealKiller said:


> I think that while Troy's concepts are interesting and very effective if you are struggling with picking, his videos just have way too much filler material for me.


IMO, that's the big difference between the "Season" material and MAsters in Mechanics - the Seasons are entertainment, that also conveys a LOT of info, and it's a pretty enjoyable thing to crack a beer and sit back and watch - I would buy it on DVD if I could and force my non-guitarist friends to watch it, because I think they might finally start to understand what it was like to grow up as a guitarist. 

Masters, meanwhile, is pretty much a pure data dump, presenting concepts and showing how they then become part of a signature lick. The Yngwie one is remarkable. If you want to pick up some concepts and then try to apply them to your own playing, the Seasons are probably enough, but if youy want to get way under the hood with an artist, MAsters is where it's at.


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## Stilicho

Drew said:


> IMO, that's the big difference between the "Season" material and MAsters in Mechanics - the Seasons are entertainment, that also conveys a LOT of info, and it's a pretty enjoyable thing to crack a beer and sit back and watch - I would buy it on DVD if I could and force my non-guitarist friends to watch it, because I think they might finally start to understand what it was like to grow up as a guitarist.
> 
> Masters, meanwhile, is pretty much a pure data dump, presenting concepts and showing how they then become part of a signature lick. The Yngwie one is remarkable. If you want to pick up some concepts and then try to apply them to your own playing, the Seasons are probably enough, but if youy want to get way under the hood with an artist, MAsters is where it's at.


Yeah the "Seminars" are incredibly dense with material. I've been finding the MiM "Interviews" to be great as well, the Michael Angelo Batio one in particular is full of interesting ideas and details.


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## Deadpool_25

I love this thread. So many things I agree with even though I am only marginally familiar with Troy's work. I think I also discovered his YT channel because of the Vai/Crossroads video. Eventually I discovered the CtC series and did exactly what @Drew mentioned; I sat back with a beer or three and binge watched it Netflix-style. I found it quite interesting and entertaining, and _incredibly_ well produced.

I looked into his site a little, but didn't sign up for the forum. I still might, but I feel like I have a decent understanding of what the overall gist is already. In the smallest nutshell possible: it seems to me it's about different techniques that exist for escaping the strings (or not) when needed. When you boil it down it all seems very simple...at least in theory. Application is another story. Also, I liked his stuff on breaking down the physical elements of picking...the motion of the entire picking arm.

All in all, it seems like pretty cool stuff.

@USMarine75, I wouldn't have guessed your snarky ass would be into Troy's stuff. Seems to be a bit high-brow for a Marine.


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## primitiverebelworld

I watched some BenEller vids and he is so hyped about pickslanting I took notes and tryed it out myself - it works! I wonder aswell why anybody has not even mentioned the whole nine years of my playing and lurking in forums. Finally things make sense why and how picking happens and why some licks have been easy to play and others ultradifficult. Though not all is convertible to even strokes per string. Economy picking will retain its place here and there.


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## Drew

primitiverebelworld said:


> I watched some BenEller vids and he is so hyped about pickslanting I took notes and tryed it out myself - it works! I wonder aswell why anybody has not even mentioned the whole nine years of my playing and lurking in forums. Finally things make sense why and how picking happens and why some licks have been easy to play and others ultradifficult. Though not all is convertible to even strokes per string. Economy picking will retain its place here and there.


Well, because Troy was the first guy I've ever really heard talking about it, and because a lot of the guys who do this, aren't consciously _aware_ they're doing it.


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## USMarine75

Deadpool_25 said:


> I love this thread. So many things I agree with even though I am only marginally familiar with Troy's work. I think I also discovered his YT channel because of the Vai/Crossroads video. Eventually I discovered the CtC series and did exactly what @Drew mentioned; I sat back with a beer or three and binge watched it Netflix-style. I found it quite interesting and entertaining, and _incredibly_ well produced.
> 
> I looked into his site a little, but didn't sign up for the forum. I still might, but I feel like I have a decent understanding of what the overall gist is already. In the smallest nutshell possible: it seems to me it's about different techniques that exist for escaping the strings (or not) when needed. When you boil it down it all seems very simple...at least in theory. Application is another story. Also, I liked his stuff on breaking down the physical elements of picking...the motion of the entire picking arm.
> 
> All in all, it seems like pretty cool stuff.
> 
> @USMarine75, I wouldn't have guessed your snarky ass would be into Troy's stuff. Seems to be a bit high-brow for a Marine.



I dabble lol.

What's funny is watching these vids and realizing what technique(s) it is that I've been using all these years and didn't realize.


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## Randy

Stilicho said:


> Oh I know you weren't dude, but if you want to get real angry you can give this a watch:
> 
> This is actually what made me start this thread.




Reminder why I love Levi Clay.


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## jagraal

For whatever its worth, I'm 100% behind whatever Troy does. I haven't seen a lot of the cracking the code stuff, but I did a shoot for it a few years back and I found Troy to be an extremely passionate and knowledgable guy. I've been playing and teaching for a crap ton of years and I can't really say I've played with or worked with anyone that has researched the technique of guitar playing more than Troy. Not only that, but he can explain it all very well, AND the guy can play. You don't find that combo very often. I'd recommend checking out anything he does.


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## Stilicho

jagraal said:


> For whatever its worth, I'm 100% behind whatever Troy does. I haven't seen a lot of the cracking the code stuff, but I did a shoot for it a few years back and I found Troy to be an extremely passionate and knowledgable guy. I've been playing and teaching for a crap ton of years and I can't really say I've played with or worked with anyone that has researched the technique of guitar playing more than Troy. Not only that, but he can explain it all very well, AND the guy can play. You don't find that combo very often. I'd recommend checking out anything he does.


Troy is an amazing teacher and a guy who clearly loves what he's doing. If you watch his interviews it's almost funny how quickly he'll see things - I remember laughing when Marty Friedman was pulling the "it's not about technique, play what you want to play" bit and Troy pointed out how his DWPS was limiting how he was playing things. Marty was a bit taken aback by it and then when he tried playing arpeggios differently it wouldn't work. He really is full of profound insights into guitar playing.

The Martin Miller interview in particular is jam-packed with insights into crosspicking, 2WPS and general playing advice.


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## cip 123

All I see him talk about is pick slanting?

Doesn't everyone do that? Like isn't it natural?


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## Deadpool_25

cip 123 said:


> All I see him talk about is pick slanting?
> 
> Doesn't everyone do that? Like isn't it natural?



Most people do some form of pickslanting without even being aware of it, so in a sense you’re right. However most people also don’t think about it and don’t realize what benefits or limitations their style offers, let alone thinking about how another style, used selectively, might be beneficial.

Sit down with a beverage of choice and watch the entire Cracking the Code series on YT. It’s doesn’t take all that long and is well worth it just to understand the concepts. It’s pretty entertaining regardless.


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## primitiverebelworld

Shall be done...


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## Drew

Stilicho said:


> Troy is an amazing teacher and a guy who clearly loves what he's doing. If you watch his interviews it's almost funny how quickly he'll see things - I remember laughing when Marty Friedman was pulling the "it's not about technique, play what you want to play" bit and Troy pointed out how his DWPS was limiting how he was playing things. Marty was a bit taken aback by it and then when he tried playing arpeggios differently it wouldn't work. He really is full of profound insights into guitar playing.
> 
> The Martin Miller interview in particular is jam-packed with insights into crosspicking, 2WPS and general playing advice.


Actually, I think it's less Troy is an amazing _teacher_ than it is he's an amazing researcher and has a gift for analyzing playing technique and figuring out what makes it work. That's not to discount Troy as a teacher, but I think the real impressive part of Cracking the Code is the analysis into the mechanics of how a pick moves through the strings, and how that interacts with things like note choice, the way phrases land on the fretboard, and how players subconsciously optimize their lines for their picking mechanics.


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## USMarine75

Drew said:


> Actually, I think it's less Troy is an amazing _teacher_ than it is he's an amazing researcher and has a gift for analyzing playing technique and figuring out what makes it work. That's not to discount Troy as a teacher, but I think the real impressive part of Cracking the Code is the analysis into the mechanics of how a pick moves through the strings, and how that interacts with things like note choice, the way phrases land on the fretboard, and how players subconsciously optimize their lines for their picking mechanics.



The slick production quality doesn't hurt either.


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## Drew

USMarine75 said:


> The slick production quality doesn't hurt either.


They ARE very fun videos to watch, at that! 

He's great in his forum, though, as well, providing analysis on member's picking mechanics. I've learned a lot there.


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## FloridaRolf

I like his videos, a great insight on "minor" details.
Weird though that the way he advertises DWPS doesn't really work for me, I can't pick shit the way I'm supposed to slant the pick downwards, I kinda lose all my picking control when playing like that.


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## HungryGuitarStudent

I'm considering buying his slant picking primer. Has anyone tried it ?

I love the fact that he analyzes things deeply, but I'm hoping for a quick/to the point primer.


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## Drew

eayottes said:


> I'm considering buying his slant picking primer. Has anyone tried it ?
> 
> I love the fact that he analyzes things deeply, but I'd be grateful for a quick/to the point primer.


It's a pretty good overview. 

One thing I'd suggest, though, is also signing up at his forum. There's a good discussion on nomenclature going on right now, and one of the things in it is Troy is likely to drop the "pickslanting" term in future lessons, because while guys like Yngwie and Eric Johnson (where he first figured out the "pickslanting" approach) do play with a pronounced slant in the way they hold the pick, he's since begun to find that that's hardly universal and really the critical part of the approach isn't the physical orientation of the pick, so much as the trajectory it makes, moving at an angle relative to the strings so it drops below the plane of the strings on downstrokes, but then escapes above the strings on an upstroke, allowing you to easily change strings. Oftentimes a slanted pick _follows _from that, but really the critical thing isn't the pick, it's the escaped picstroke on upstrokes. 

So, the pickslant primer is great... But, it's a concept that's evolving as Troy continues to study players' picking technique, and he has a few additional observations he's made since.


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## HungryGuitarStudent

Thanks for the quick reply. Is the primer practical (i.e. does it provide exercises designed to make you improve) or is it more an "academic" analysis of picking techniques ?


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## HungryGuitarStudent

I bought a 1 month membership. Tom is a very interesting guy, but my god does he talk a lot before actually providing a single exercise. He reminds me of a great writer who doesn't have an editor. Great, but he'd be an even better teacher with economy of words.


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## HungryGuitarStudent

Having spent 4 hours on the site, I take back what I said. Once the exercises start, the pace is just great. I'd recommend it to any player wanting to improve his picking skills.


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## prlgmnr

The Cracking the Code experience neatly encapsulated in a two post sequence, there.

The seemingly taking ages to get to the point thing seems frustrating at the time, but it's why it sticks in your head.


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## HungryGuitarStudent

Do any of you know if Troy did an economy picking tutorial (doesn't seem like it, although he may use different terminology) ? If not, any advice on videos/tutorials on economy picking ?


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## Element0s

He's never done a seminar based around economy picking exclusively, but he does long-form seminars on Eric Johnson and Malmsteen, who both use systems of picking that involve a mixture of downward economy picking (or "sweeping" as Troy calls it) and alternate picking. He's also got interviews with players who use similar systems to this (Marty Friedman, Joscho Stefan) and plays who have a really strong grasp of two-way economy picking (Jimmy Bruno, Teemu Mantysaari) _and_ there is a full-length interview with Frank Gambale forthcoming.

EDIT: He's also done recent interviews with Oz Noy and Joe Stump, who both use economy picking. Hopefully they'll be edited and released soon


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## Lemonbaby

eayottes said:


> I bought a 1 month membership. Tom is a very interesting guy, but my god does he talk a lot before actually providing a single exercise. He reminds me of a great writer who doesn't have an editor. Great, but he'd be an even better teacher with economy of words.


He probably never heard of downward word slanting to speed things up...


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## Spaced Out Ace

Pickslanting took me some time to utilize in all situations, particularly when I need to alt pick 3 note per string patterns, but once I did, it's pretty useful. Michael Angelo Batio apparently swaps back and forth between the two types of pick slanting like a machine.


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## HungryGuitarStudent

Element0s said:


> He's never done a seminar based around economy picking exclusively, but he does long-form seminars on Eric Johnson and Malmsteen, who both use systems of picking that involve a mixture of downward economy picking (or "sweeping" as Troy calls it) and alternate picking.



Thanks for the reply. This neatly sums up most of what I understood after completing the pickslanting primer.



Element0s said:


> He's also got interviews with players who use similar systems to this (Marty Friedman, Joscho Stefan) and plays who have a really strong grasp of two-way economy picking (Jimmy Bruno, Teemu Mantysaari) _and_ there is a full-length interview with Frank Gambale forthcoming.
> 
> EDIT: He's also done recent interviews with Oz Noy and Joe Stump, who both use economy picking. Hopefully they'll be edited and released soon



Thanks for the heads up on the interviews. I mostly focused on the pickslanting primer until now. I'll definitely watch the Bruno, Mantysaari and Stump interviews. I hope he does full fledged lessons (or "clips" as he calls them) with Gambale and Stump.


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## HungryGuitarStudent

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Pickslanting took me some time to utilize in all situations, particularly when I need to alt pick 3 note per string patterns, but once I did, it's pretty useful. Michael Angelo Batio apparently swaps back and forth between the two types of pick slanting like a machine.



I've just started yesterday exploring more 2-way pickslanting for 3 notes per string patterns.

After about 3 hours of practice, I find that I have no problem with descending runs, but ascending runs (i.e. low to high) are not natural.

More precisely, when ascending I find it hard to build speed when starting with a downstroke via downward pickslanting and switching to upward pickslanting on the upstroke on the adjacent (higher) string. If, on the other hand, I do things in reverse, i.e. start an ascending run with an upstroke via upward pickslanting and move to the adjacent string on the downstroke via downward pickslanting things are way more natural to me.

Am I an alien or did any of you have similar experience ?


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## Spaced Out Ace

eayottes said:


> I've just started yesterday exploring more 2-way pickslanting for 3 notes per string patterns.
> 
> After about 3 hours of practice, I find that I have no problem with descending runs, but ascending runs (i.e. low to high) are not natural.
> 
> More precisely, when ascending I find it hard to build speed when starting with a downstroke via downward pickslanting and switching to upward pickslanting on the upstroke on the adjacent (higher) string. If, on the other hand, I do things in reverse, i.e. start an ascending run with an upstroke via upward pickslanting and move to the adjacent string on the downstroke via downward pickslanting things are way more natural to me.
> 
> Am I an alien or did any of you have similar experience ?


Yeah. I say give it more time. Most of guitar playing is muscle memory, and if your muscles have zero memory of something, then you're more likely to feel like a toddler trying to walk.


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## groverj3

eayottes said:


> I've just started yesterday exploring more 2-way pickslanting for 3 notes per string patterns.
> 
> After about 3 hours of practice, I find that I have no problem with descending runs, but ascending runs (i.e. low to high) are not natural.
> 
> More precisely, when ascending I find it hard to build speed when starting with a downstroke via downward pickslanting and switching to upward pickslanting on the upstroke on the adjacent (higher) string. If, on the other hand, I do things in reverse, i.e. start an ascending run with an upstroke via upward pickslanting and move to the adjacent string on the downstroke via downward pickslanting things are way more natural to me.
> 
> Am I an alien or did any of you have similar experience ?



I naturally upward pickslant, and when I do things that would be better suited to downward pickslanting I find myself switching to something akin to Martin Miller's crosspicking approach to 1nps alternate picked arpeggios (though, for any number of notes for string). I find downward pickslanting to be strange feeling to do on a consistent basis, but it probably creeps into my playing especially when playing things that require 2wps (3nps runs, for example).

My 2c. If you've been playing for a long time you're better off getting better at the solutions you've used to play certain patterns than specifically trying to learn specific pickslanting techniques for certain sorts of licks. Barring doing anything that's going to hold you back (like pick slanting the wrong way, etc.). That's just my opinion though, and I'm hardly the best alternate picker in the world.


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## Spaced Out Ace

You mostly upward pickslant? Weird.


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