# 17 string tapguitar by Beartrax guitars



## ixlramp (Aug 14, 2010)

Not the owner.








Built for Wolfgang Daiss in 2003.

Essentially two mirrored 9 string basses sharing a central lowest B0 string:

Eb Bb F C G D A E B E A D G C F Bb Eb

Luthier Siggi Abramzik, Beartrax guitars: index


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 14, 2010)

Epic.


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## Demeyes (Aug 14, 2010)

That's one of the most ridiculous instruments I've ever seen! I can't even begin to imagine what that feels like to play. I'm surprised that it was made in 03 and I've never seen it before.


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## vampiregenocide (Aug 14, 2010)

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittt....videos?


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## BrainArt (Aug 14, 2010)

That thing looks like a beast to play.


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## Trespass (Aug 14, 2010)

Fretless touchstyle?

Bohdi Bear

I'd love to see that played.


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## MaKo´s Tethan (Aug 14, 2010)

oh my goodness, thats mad, want.


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## TheAceOfSpades1 (Aug 15, 2010)

Very interesting idea, the thing looks like it weighs a ton though!


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## thesimo (Aug 15, 2010)

completely pointless...

just get a keyboard or something


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## Prydogga (Aug 15, 2010)

^ Serious? 

That's like: "why get an 8 string, just get a bass" mentality...


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## thesimo (Aug 15, 2010)

its really quite different.

17 strings and u cant even pick? ill take a keyboard


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## ixlramp (Aug 15, 2010)

'U' can pick.


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## guitareben (Aug 15, 2010)

:O :O :O :O. Wow..... But isn't that basically just a chapman stick? Still, it is mega awesome


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## HumanFuseBen (Aug 15, 2010)

goooood god! that is a beast. but i can't help but wonder, where is the revolutionary, mind bending music that requires anyone to play such an instrument?


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## Customisbetter (Aug 15, 2010)

Where is Adam!?


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## Adam (Aug 15, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> Where is Adam!?



?


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## Adam (Aug 15, 2010)

thesimo said:


> its really quite different.
> 
> 17 strings and u cant even pick? ill take a keyboard



It's a touchstyle instrument no need to pick.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Aug 15, 2010)

thesimo said:


> its really quite different.
> 
> 17 strings and u cant even pick? ill take a keyboard



You arent supposed to pick any of the strings, hence why its called a tap guitar.

Edit: Ninja'd by Adam haha.


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## walleye (Aug 15, 2010)

thesimo said:


> completely pointless...
> 
> just get a keyboard or something



when you say "completely pointless" be sure to specify that you mean "completely pointless for YOU"


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## Customisbetter (Aug 15, 2010)

Adam said:


> ?



I figured you should buy and or make one.


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## thefpb2 (Aug 15, 2010)

I personally don't think its very practical to achieve the type of sound desired, completely pointless is weighted but that dude is entitled to say so. But i agree that there are better instruments for the desired end. If not there should be


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## Guamskyy (Aug 15, 2010)

That's weird, the bass strings are in the middle of the neck, and then the strings thin out both ways.

But it's SOOOOOOO AWESOME.


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## Adam (Aug 15, 2010)

guambomb832 said:


> That's weird, the bass strings are in the middle of the neck, and then the strings thin out both ways.
> 
> But it's SOOOOOOO AWESOME.



That's typical of most touchstyle instruments.


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## Adam (Aug 15, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> I figured you should buy and or make one.



My dexterity for touchstyle isn't the greatest, so I don't think i would ever make or buy one. I'm currently working on a super sub contra 5 string bass design tuned an octave below a normal 5 string(B00-G1) with a 44" scale.


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## heavy7-665 (Aug 15, 2010)

That would be fun to play


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 15, 2010)

thesimo said:


> completely pointless...
> 
> just get a keyboard or something



Huh?

You've never seen a band play with two guitarists, and a bassist?


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## Inception7 (Aug 15, 2010)

I agree that touch style is pointless on guitars. Only fools would even bother with that.


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## Adam (Aug 16, 2010)

Inception7 said:


> I agree that touch style is pointless on guitars. Only fools would even bother with that.


?


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## Inception7 (Aug 16, 2010)

I was kidding of course since I use my 8 string for that exact purpose. BTW. Stanley Jordan is God. Period.


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## Adam (Aug 16, 2010)

Inception7 said:


> I was kidding of course since I use my 8 string for that exact purpose. BTW. Stanley Jordan is God. Period.



Oh whoops I just realized who you were, I love your playing man, big fan.


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## Inception7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Wow, thanks! I have to admit it's a bit strange to hear someone say they are a fan of mine. I'm very honored


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## Adam (Aug 16, 2010)

Inception7 said:


> Wow, thanks! I have to admit it's a bit strange to hear someone say they are a fan of mine. I'm very honored



No prob man. I love your tone in your vids whats your setup/settings?


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## Inception7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Adam said:


> No prob man. I love your tone in your vids whats your setup/settings?


 
Um, just the Schecter ATX C-8 and Boss Me-70 plugged right into the computer. I believe the amp sim is on "clean". I don't know, it just sounded good right off the bat so I didn't mess with it too much. I like it better then the sound from my Vox Amp.


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## Adam (Aug 16, 2010)

Inception7 said:


> Um, just the Schecter ATX C-8 and Boss Me-70 plugged right into the computer. I believe the amp sim is on "clean". I don't know, it just sounded good right off the bat so I didn't mess with it too much. I like it better then the sound from my Vox Amp.



Cool, I have a BOSS GT-6 so hopefully I can get close. I was just wondering because I want to get into touch style playing with my 11 string, and wanted to have a similar tone.


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## Inception7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Adam said:


> Cool, I have a BOSS GT-6 so hopefully I can get close. I was just wondering because I want to get into touch style playing with my 11 string, and wanted to have a similar tone.


 
Honestly, I think most of the sound is from the Pickups. I had a Shecter 7 string with EMG's and it didn't sound similar at all. What kind of pickups do you have? What kind of guitar is it?


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## Adam (Aug 16, 2010)

Inception7 said:


> Honestly, I think most of the sound is from the Pickups. I had a Shecter 7 string with EMG's and it didn't sound similar at all. What kind of pickups do you have? What kind of guitar is it?


The one in the middle and I built it by hand, the pickup is s custom made Nordstrand:


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## Inception7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Wow! That thing is a beast! What kind of music do you play on something like that? I've thought of going to 9 or 10 (one lower, one higher) but that's crazy!


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## snigloid (Aug 16, 2010)

SUCH A WAIST!!!! alot of children could use that to clean there teeth!!


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## Adam (Aug 16, 2010)

Inception7 said:


> Wow! That thing is a beast! What kind of music do you play on something like that? I've thought of going to 9 or 10 (one lower, one higher) but that's crazy!



Well I designed it be an 88 key piano in guitar form, right now I play classical music, and some jazz. As you can see it's not very "metal" so you can guess I don't regularly play metal on this beast.


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## Inception7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Adam said:


> Well I designed it be an 88 key piano in guitar form, right now I play classical music, and some jazz, as you can see its not very "metal" so you can guess I don't regularly play metal on this beast.


 
PM me a link if you have some, I'd love to hear what you play. I imagine it's pretty tough to play on something of that magnitude. I bet it sounds fantastic!


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## Adam (Aug 16, 2010)

Inception7 said:


> PM me a link if you have some, I'd love to hear what you play. I imagine it's pretty tough to play on something of that magnitude. I bet it sounds fantastic!



I have an older video, if you look it up on youtube you can find it, but alot has changed since then it no longer has MIDI and now a 3-band EQ(really brings out the low end out so much more) a new G#0/G0 string, and of course an actual high A string. But like I said that video is outdated, and with my improved rig, electronics and strings(I get them custom made) it makes the sound you hear in that video pale in comparison. Oh and it's quite comfortable to play.


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## Inception7 (Aug 16, 2010)

Awesome, I'll check it out!


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## Adam (Aug 16, 2010)

Inception7 said:


> Awesome, I'll check it out!



Cool, I made that video shortly after it the instrument was finished so I hadn't exactly mastered it(I'm still trying lol) and most of what was played were requested by the members on this forum.


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## Prydogga (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks asshole who thought my post of having a different opinion needed neg repping, because I have a different opinion... Great logic.


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## signalgrey (Aug 16, 2010)

Adam said:


> ?




while the man is clearly very talented. Im gonna go ahead and say i really didnt enjoy that. I dont mind a good touch style player but that seemed overly....floofy.

edit: 2000th post!!


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## Adam (Aug 16, 2010)

signalgrey said:


> while the man is clearly very talented. Im gonna go ahead and say i really didnt enjoy that.



How about this one


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## signalgrey (Aug 16, 2010)

Adam said:


> How about this one




little better. thanks hahaha


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## tapper (Aug 14, 2011)

I´m the person who took the big picture of Wolfgang Daiss with his Beartrax 17-string tapping guitar in concert (the one posted above, with the greenish stage lighting). 

In fact, I organized that concert, and it took place after a tapping-guitar workshop Wolfgang Daiss taught for teenagers.

It´s very strange to see a picture I took used and posted by people I have never seen or talked to. But it´s alright - I´m not a professional photographer, I don´t want or need royalties or whatever that´s called for pictures. I feel a little flattered, too.

I had also been quite skeptioal about that monster of an instrument before Wolfgang described the idea behind it to me during that workshop. His 17-string thing is in fact big and heavy, but it has been a one-off thing so far, and who says there cannot be a lighter design once Siggi Abramzik finds a customer who wants a similar instrument that pushes the idea further? 

The idea is that it solves a basic problem of Chapman Stick/Warr Guitar string arrangement and layout. With those instruments, you have to decide before you buy/order if you want to play with crossed or uncrossed hands - and then you´re stuck for good with what you chose. With Daiss´ Beartrax 17 strings, however, (which is indeed two mirrored 9-string basses that share the lowest string) you have all the options to play with. In one piece or passage you can use uncrossed hands, in another you play with crossed hands if that´s what comes in more handy. 

If you can´t reach one note you need with your left hand, then the right hand might be in a position (literally) to catch that very note on the other side of the fretboard, or vice versa. That note appears on the same fret on the same mirroring string again, among other options that you have to finger it.

To me as a long-time Stick and Warr Guitar player, this penultimate flexibility makes perfect sense, and it offers some additional possibilities that Wolfgang Daiss had not even thought of.

I´m determined to get my own modified version by Siggi Abramzik as soon as I have saved some money again.

And by the way, the music that Wolfgang Daiss played that night was a mesmerizing walk through music history from medieval pieces to modern jazz. In the course of the evening, he made the instrument in turn sound like one big amplified lute, like two lutes playing together, or like an ensemble of two archtop guitars plus an electric bass. And by doing so he didn´t even exhaust the potential of the thing.

We did make a video of his entire performance that night, mixed it, and gave it to him a few months later. But he is a very busy musician who by then had a drastic change to deal with in his family life that absorbed all of his energy for quite a while, so he hasn´t posted the clips on YouTube yet as far as I know. I will contact him, however, and urge him finally to do that.

And as for the comments wondering about what outlandishly brilliant music could justify the construction of such an instrument: what a Strat or a Les Paul could be made to do or sound like was found out long after they had been created. 

If Daiss´instrument is not for yiou, that is perfectly alright. But don´t be so narrow-minded to put it down before having heard it. 

Music is all about freedom of the mind. It´s always absolutely marvellous to find out what instruments people have designed, and what music people can create on them. More often than not, the luthier himself ends up surprised to hear what people get out of his design - things he never thought of.

And: Who needed all the technical possibilities of the Abbey Road studios before the Beatles came along - a couple of unstudied musicians with a bunch of great ideas, determined to put onto the tapes the sound they had in mind? Who would have ever thought (before the Beatles) that pop music could have such depth, and still remain loads of fun?


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## ixlramp (Aug 14, 2011)

Good post. It's an excellent photo. I have it hosted at photobucket, if ever you want me to remove it from photobucket i really don't mind, just PM me. It would be good to hear this instrument


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## TMM (Aug 14, 2011)

Epic guitar, epic fanny pack


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## Explorer (Aug 14, 2011)

In looking at that first pic...







... at first I thought the guy was left-handed, so the open side of the neck would be towards the primary hand. 

That makes sense, since I manage to play touchstyle (poorly) on my Agile Intrepid and my FM408, and as my non-primary hand is already above the plain of the instrument's horn, it doesn't get blocked.

Then I saw the picture of the player...






and saw he is actually right handed. That means that his right hand would be blocked by the horn from easily using anything above the 17th fret. 

Is there some design advantage to this I'm not understanding? Most tap instruments attempt to leave that area open even on the non-primary side, so it's strange to see almost a third of the fretboard blocked by such a thing....


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## Stealth7 (Aug 15, 2011)

@ Explorer 

I'm guessing the lower horn is there so he can place the instrument in the classical seating position.

As such.






That's just my guess at why it has a lower horn.


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## pink freud (Aug 15, 2011)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Epic.




Moar like "Epic fanny-pack"


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## Explorer (Aug 15, 2011)

Stealth7 said:


> @ Explorer
> 
> I'm guessing the lower horn is there so he can place the instrument in the classical seating position. That's just my guess at why it has a lower horn.



Hmm. That makes sense... although it's a shame they couldn't figure out how to make the upper frets more accessible. 

Actually, taking a look at other builds from Beartrax...










...it looks like full access to the upper frets used to be a standar feature, but that it has faded in importance, for whatever reason.


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## Dopey Trout (Aug 15, 2011)

I doubt it has "faded in importance" to the luthier, perhaps instead the man who it was built for decided that the cutaway is where it needs to be for him in order to accomodate his playing style. Besides the notes are easily reached with crosshand technique leaving the left hand to fret bass notes on the fly.


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## Explorer (Aug 15, 2011)

I'm not going to flood the thread with pictures, but if you follow the development of the Beartrax instruments, you'll see that the primary hand horn has received less and less of a cutaway over time. It's not just a "feature" for this customer. 

Sorry I didn't make clear why I thought the importance of it had faded, but the builder's cutaways have allowed less and less access over the years. Normally you see movement in the opposite direction, and that lack of access is very notable compared to most other builders of touchstyle instruments. 

Anyway, I thought it was worth mentioning. You may disagree that I should have mentioned it at all. Isn't it great to be on a public forum where we're exposed to all kinds of viewpoints different from our own?


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## CrazyDean (Aug 16, 2011)

Well it's definitely different.


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## ixlramp (Mar 10, 2019)

Link to instrument page at the Beartrax site http://www.abramzik.com/17saiter.htm
Short video:


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## Hollowway (Mar 10, 2019)

ixlramp said:


> Link to instrument page at the Beartrax site http://www.abramzik.com/17saiter.htm
> Short video:




Nice video marred by someone who can't hold the camera without repeatedly rubbing their hand over the mic. That's a shame, because that instrument is insane.


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## Fred the Shred (Mar 11, 2019)

Pfff... tapping is soooo overrated.


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## 777timesgod (Mar 13, 2019)

Not enough strings, what are you, a poser? 
Jokes aside, a question I have with these guitars that have so many strings is "how often did you get lost on the fretboard when you started playing"? It seems hard to keep track there.


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## Synesthesia (Mar 16, 2019)

Looks pretty much just like the Warr guitars of old. Wonder whatever happened to Warr... anyways... I'm waaay more intrigued by the thing next to him than that guitar


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