# NGD: NK Luminous (Chinese headless)



## Lord Voldemort (Feb 23, 2018)

First, here's a photo of the little guy.





I put a lot more time into the video, so if you've ever been curious about this guitar I go over a lot of the stuff. But I will here too for you guys.



This guy is nice! 

I'm aware of the stigma that China gets for their guitars, and I've now owned three. I had a Fender Modern Player Telecaster, an acoustic and now this. Every single one has been awesome, so maybe I'm just lucking out. In any case, this guitar is stunning. 

It has a flame maple neck and fretboard with a blue satin finish on the back of the neck, Luminlays, rosewood tone/volume knobs that coil split, stainless steel frets, bone nut and a spalted maple top with a really nice burst finish. I'm thoroughly confused as to why this is $270. That's the price of a Squier.

I was expecting the pickups to be just, unbelievably awful, and they're not perfect, but they're way better than Epiphone, Ibanez, LTD, Jackson, Fender and Gibson pickups. They're kind of like Dimarzios, and they seem to be potted properly because they don't buzz. I'll probably still swap them out, because they're not perfect for what I'm doing, but if I didn't swap them I'm sure no one would be the wiser other than they just look cheap. I'd put them on par with like, old Carvin pickups (not the lithiums which I think are a little nicer) or Caparison stocks. Like, pretty solid but not quite perfect somehow.

It's not perfect, though. There's a finish flaw at the bottom, the frets need a little leveling/crowning, and there're a couple random imperfections. But honestly, this guitar just screams Schecter to me. The neck is very Schecter for one, but the little imperfections are very similar to the little ones that I had on my Loomis and KM-6. Nut's a little dirty on the side with a little dent, the paint runs a tiny bit in small areas. But those little things are the kind of problems you find on $5-1,000 guitars, not the problems you'd find on the lemons. They're easily fixed, and barely noticeable. 

I also like that it's not a straight copy of a Strandberg, or any body shape really. It's like a mixture of a Strandy and the Skervesen one, I think it's like a Doggle or something? Either way, I get the shittiness of straight stealing extremely well thought out designs, logo and everything, and selling it for dirt cheap. I'm glad that this is an original design, that doesn't quite look like anything. 

Anyways, that's just my $.02. This guitar is the best bang for the buck I've ever seen, the flame maple neck/fretboard, spalted maple top, I mean it just looks like a custom made guitar. 

Yeah buddy.


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## Albake21 (Feb 23, 2018)

You say the neck is similar to Schecter, so would you say it's a thin C shape? Like the Schecter Ultra Thin C or the regular Thin C? I remember seeing these on eBay and I really wanted to buy one just for the hell of it. Awesome to see someone bought one and enjoys it. I might consider one now as a project guitar. Thanks for the review!

Also I'd be really curious if the bridge could be replaced with say a hipshot or something nicer.


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## Dawn of the Shred (Feb 23, 2018)

Congrats and HNGD!!


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## Lord Voldemort (Feb 23, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> You say the neck is similar to Schecter, so would you say it's a thin C shape? Like the Schecter Ultra Thin C or the regular Thin C? I remember seeing these on eBay and I really wanted to buy one just for the hell of it. Awesome to see someone bought one and enjoys it. I might consider one now as a project guitar. Thanks for the review!
> 
> Also I'd be really curious if the bridge could be replaced with say a hipshot or something nicer.


 
Cheers man! 

It's like an older Loomis neck, a little thicker but not as thick as like, a Les Paul or something. I know that the hardware is replaceable, but I'm pretty satisfied with the bridge. I will say that the tuning devices on the bridge are vertical, so they stick up like a Floyd Rose, whereas some of the headless bridges I've seem they're laying flat and I would have preferred that.


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## Albake21 (Feb 23, 2018)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Cheers man!
> 
> It's like an older Loomis neck, a little thicker but not as thick as like, a Les Paul or something. I know that the hardware is replaceable, but I'm pretty satisfied with the bridge. I will say that the tuning devices on the bridge are vertical, so they stick up like a Floyd Rose, whereas some of the headless bridges I've seem they're laying flat and I would have preferred that.


So how would you say the tuning stability is? I'd imagine it doesn't hold tune that well. Thanks for the info!


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## feilong29 (Feb 23, 2018)

HNGD, thanks for sharing!!


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## Lord Voldemort (Feb 23, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> So how would you say the tuning stability is? I'd imagine it doesn't hold tune that well. Thanks for the info!



It's hard to say right now. It's a little unstable, but I can't really determine if it's the new strings or not. I'll get back on that.


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## Tisca (Feb 23, 2018)

"stainless steel frets, bone nut"

Impressive. Are you sure they are and it didn't only say so in the specs?


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## vortex_infinium (Feb 23, 2018)

Tisca said:


> "stainless steel frets, bone nut"
> 
> Impressive. Are you sure they are and it didn't only say so in the specs?



s**tChinasays.jpg

China has been killing it lately. But stainless steel frets out on a $270 China guitar also has me skeptical.


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## Lord Voldemort (Feb 23, 2018)

vortex_infinium said:


> s**tChinasays.jpg
> 
> China has been killing it lately. But stainless steel frets out on a $270 China guitar also has me skeptical.



I don't know, I'll be honest. I had a Parker with stainless steel frets a while ago, and honestly as much as I tried I couldn't feel or see much of a difference between them and my other guitar's frets. I wasn't really looking though. I do however think that they are stainless steel, simply because on the eBay seller's store he sells sets of stainless steel frets separately, so it would make sense that the guitars that his factory makes would have stainless steel frets. 

I'm confident that the nut is bone, though. It's certainly not the same nut that's on my Epiphone, which is the worst thing ever made. It's a solid material, and feels/looks like a bone. I'll happily put up some pictures of them, though, so more discerning eyes could spot that out. 

As far as the price being bizarrely cheap for features like that, this guitar makes me rethink how much these kinds of things actually cost luthiers-especially big luthiers that buy in Mass bulk. Granted, this was made in China where they are literally paid pennies an hour, but a very figured flame maple neck and fretboard, spalted maple top...that's insane for $270. The nut/frets seem comparatively tame to the figured woods used here.


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## MaxAidingAres (Feb 23, 2018)

These AliExpress guitars are not terrible. They suck. However I believe if you are ordering something unique enough and it’s something you need they are awesome projects. They require a lot of work mostly fretwork and a set up. You can replace the tuners, nut bridge etc but it’s money wasted imo. The improvement new parts bring is laughable. Their pickups ain’t even bad. Every aliexpress guitar that I’ve came across has pickups that put Ibanez schecter and Jackson and anybody else’s stock pickups to shame. The only negative I’ve had with electronics is the pickups are unpotted. And in that sense it usually makes sense to just upgrade to something you know you want. These can be money pits but they don’t have to be


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## Tisca (Feb 24, 2018)

vortex_infinium said:


> s**tChinasays.jpg
> 
> China has been killing it lately. But stainless steel frets out on a $270 China guitar also has me skeptical.



I've been browsing a lot of those guitar products on Aliexpress and there's inconsistencies is pretty much every store/item. The photos are sometimes of the actual real guitar that they then copied, specs are clearly not the same as in photos and my favorite; photos from the factory but there's for some reason only white people working there.



Lord Voldemort said:


> ....I'm confident that the nut is bone, though. It's certainly not the same nut that's on my Epiphone, which is the worst thing ever made. It's a solid material, and feels/looks like a bone. I'll happily put up some pictures of them, though, so more discerning eyes could spot that out.



Do the burn and smell test. Heat up a needle and poke it somewhere where you'll notice the mark the least. You'll tell the difference between burnt bone and plastic.


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## mystix (Feb 24, 2018)

Talk about impule... your vid made me pull the trigger on one.


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## Lord Voldemort (Feb 24, 2018)

mystix said:


> Talk about impule... your vid made me pull the trigger on one.



Awesome! You'll have to post pictures when you get it. What color did you go for?


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## mystix (Feb 24, 2018)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Awesome! You'll have to post pictures when you get it. What color did you go for?


 
Will do. Purple!


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## Deadpool_25 (Feb 25, 2018)

Nice video man. Good playing. $270. If those specs are true that sounds like a steal.


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## Lord Voldemort (Feb 25, 2018)

So, as an update, I will say that it holds tune reasonably well. It's not perfect, quite, but it's not bad. I find myself tuning up after about 15-20 minutes of rough playing, which I feel is a about the same as my Japanese Ibanez, whereas my Music Man Silhouette I don't think I've tuned in about two weeks. So, that's not perfect, though it's manageable. I'm also not sure if it's still breaking in a bit, and it's in need of a proper set up. 

I also did some research on the pickups, because it was really bothering me that they were so decent. I'm still going to swap them because they just kind of sound high output, loud and Bass-y, but they do metal chugga dugs as well as any pickup I've played just about. They lose clarity with anything other than that, though. It turns out that they're technically aftermarket pickups called Artec, which is a brand that makes a lot of GHS stuff, or vice versa I don't recall. But it's a solid pickup, far superior to any stock pickup for a big company. I found the site and pickup page. He chose the hot rail humbuckers, which makes a lot of sense of djent and modern metal. 

http://www.artecsound.com/pickups/giovanni/40_humbucker.htm

Makes me think that whoever is making these is actually putting some thought and care into these guys. 

At any rate I've bought some new pickups for this guy, and I'm taking him in for a setup when they arrive. I'll keep this thread updated since I've gotten just about 3 PM's from people saying I inspired them to pick one up lol.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Feb 26, 2018)

Out of curiosity, how long did this take to arrive after you ordered it?


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## Lord Voldemort (Feb 26, 2018)

PirateMetalTroy said:


> Out of curiosity, how long did this take to arrive after you ordered it?



About 3 weeks. It felt like a lifetime though, sheesh. After it ships from China, it doesn't get scanned until it arrives in California, so there's like 2 and a half week period where no one knows where it is or how long it'll be, so the tracking number just reads ''shipped, from China" and doesn't update or indicate what's happening. Once it got to the US it arrived the next day, and it was packed really well.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Feb 27, 2018)

You should make a more in depth video on this thing, currently there's only one other video about these guitars on youtube, and much like yours is a cursory once over the guitar, talk about the features, djent a bit, video done.


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## Lord Voldemort (Feb 27, 2018)

PirateMetalTroy said:


> You should make a more in depth video on this thing, currently there's only one other video about these guitars on youtube, and much like yours is a cursory once over the guitar, talk about the features, djent a bit, video done.



What would you like to know about? I feel like I covered most the basics, aside from mentioning scale length and fretboard radius (which is 25.5 on the length, not clue as to the radius). I think I gave pretty much all the information that I have to give.


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## Albake21 (Feb 27, 2018)

Lord Voldemort said:


> What would you like to know about? I feel like I covered most the basics, aside from mentioning scale length and fretboard radius (which is 25.5 on the length, not clue as to the radius). I think I gave pretty much all the information that I have to give.


These are the exact specs. Obviously the color and woods might be a bit different to the one I just grabbed this from. But most is the same.

STRING NUT
42mm Bone Nut

NECK
Flame Maple Wood with Satin Finish

NECK JOINT
Recessed Bolt-on Neck

NECK SIZE
WIDTH:
NUT
42mm
24F 
58mm

THICKNESS: 
1F
21mm
12F
22.5mm

PROFILE:
C Shape

TRUSS ROD
Dual Action

FRETBOARD
Flame Maple

FRETBOARD RADIUS
350mm(13.78")

FRET MARKERS
Luminous Side Dots and Luminous Front Dot Inlays

SCALE LENGTH
647.7mm (25.5")

BODY TOP
ASH Wood with Satin Finish

BODY BACK
ASH Wood with Satin Finish

NECK PICKUP
Artecsound Humbucker

MAGNET: Alnico 5 OUTPUT: 10.0k ohms
BRIDGE PICKUP
Artecsound Humbucker

MAGNET: Alnico 5 OUTPUT: 16.0k ohms
PICKUP SWITCH
3 Way Blade Switch with Coil Split on Push-Pull Tone Knob

CASE
Gig Bag
GUITAR WEIGHT

Approx. 3.0 kg (6.61 lbs)


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## MiPwnYew (Feb 27, 2018)

If I had a little spare cash I'd totally try one out. Especially since I have all the tools to do a decent fret level/crown/setup to get it playing well, if needed.


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## Deadpool_25 (Feb 27, 2018)

You guys need to stfu before you make me buy one. Assholes.


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## odibrom (Feb 27, 2018)

You got me looking at those guitars, which is good for the brand, didn't find their site besides AliExpress or ebay links.. no 7 stringers? Damn...

Most of the models had a cool color scheme, thumbs up there...


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## Albake21 (Feb 28, 2018)

odibrom said:


> You got me looking at those guitars, which is good for the brand, didn't find their site besides AliExpress or ebay links.. no 7 stringers? Damn...
> 
> Most of the models had a cool color scheme, thumbs up there...


Yeah I don't think they have a site. They just have that aliexpress and eBay page. Which that eBay page may or not even be their own. I was actually going to buy one if they made 7 string versions, but sadly they don't. Might still give one a try though as I've been looking for a project guitar for a while now.


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## Lord Voldemort (Feb 28, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> Yeah I don't think they have a site. They just have that aliexpress and eBay page. Which that eBay page may or not even be their own. I was actually going to buy one if they made 7 string versions, but sadly they don't. Might still give one a try though as I've been looking for a project guitar for a while now.



If they had a seven string version I'd have some explaining to do to my wife


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## PirateMetalTroy (Feb 28, 2018)

I mean, if I was to do a checklist of things that I'd like to know.

- Stainless frets? Confirm/Deny. I personally don't see any mention of that on their ebay listings.
- Does it need double ball strings or can you use single ball end strings?
- Demo of string change process would be cool, since I've also never seen a demo of how that bridge actually works, and every chinese headless has it.
- What do the pickups sound like on a variety of gain settings? Coil split demo would be nice too.
- Detailed views of the finish flaws
- Post honeymoon thoughts and criticism now that you've spent a week or two with it, rather than just a few hours.

Stuff like that. By no means is this supposed to be an exhaustive or comprehensive list, but things like that would be nice to know for those of us still on the fence about pulling the trigger on one of these. Also just make more youtube vids in general. You can clearly play well. Just post some shit.


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## iamaom (Mar 2, 2018)

Any updates on this? I really want to pull the trigger as I'm having a move in a few months with limited space in the car and I was in the market for a hardtail anyways. Having a compact guitar like this to tide me over for a year or so that I could beat up would be neat. Really curious about tuning stability and if the truss rod actually works.


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 2, 2018)

iamaom said:


> Any updates on this? I really want to pull the trigger as I'm having a move in a few months with limited space in the car and I was in the market for a hardtail anyways. Having a compact guitar like this to tide me over for a year or so that I could beat up would be neat. Really curious about tuning stability and if the truss rod actually works.



The tuning stability is fine, so far. I'm getting pups in from Britain in a few days, and then she's off the the shop for a set up and restring. It needs heavier strings, I'm dropped a bit in tuning, because there's some flubiness that throws her out of tune when I to heavy riffs, but the tuning is absolutely fine.


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## ElRay (Mar 2, 2018)

OK. It's that worm-drive bridge again.

What do you thing of the tuning stability?
How precise is the tuning?
What's the thickest string you think you can get in there?


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 5, 2018)

Hey guys, just a quick update.

So, apparently this guitar is made in Korea. I had no clue, but a youtube commenter was confident about it and upon some research, I think he's right. How cool is that?

I got the pickups in the mail on Saturday, and I'm going tomorrow to take her to my local music shop to install them and give it a thorough set up.

And the tuning stability is fine. I think it was just the strings needing to break in initially, because the tuning stability was pretty iffy when I first got it and now it's been pretty much in tune for the last few days.


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## ElRay (Mar 6, 2018)

Lord Voldemort said:


> ... And the tuning stability is fine. I think it was just the strings needing to break in initially, because the tuning stability was pretty iffy when I first got it and now it's been pretty much in tune for the last few days.


What do you have in for your 6th string? How much thicker do you think you can go? Double? 75%? 50%? 25%?


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 6, 2018)

ElRay said:


> What do you have in for your 6th string? How much thicker do you think you can go? Double? 75%? 50%? 25%?



I'm not sure, man, sorry. It's the factory strings, and I haven't changed them so I don't know what they are or what fits.


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## raytsh (Mar 6, 2018)

HNGD! Though, the body shape reminds me of http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...uild-experience-and-first-impressions.325185/


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## Explorer (Mar 7, 2018)

raytsh said:


> HNGD! Though, the body shape reminds me of http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...uild-experience-and-first-impressions.325185/


Regarding body shape, I'm going to reach back to the 2010 "Headless Agile?" topic wherein members were trying to convince Rondo to build the Hessian. Justin tossed out many interesting mock-ups.



Justin Bailey said:


> Personally I'm much more in favor of the Ergo Hessian.


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## diagrammatiks (Mar 7, 2018)

Explorer said:


> Regarding body shape, I'm going to reach back to the 2010 "Headless Agile?" topic wherein members were trying to convince Rondo to build the Hessian. Justin tossed out many interesting mock-ups.




if only agile released that headless guitar...instead of whatever dumpster fire they actually tried to sell.


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## Explorer (Mar 7, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> if only agile released that headless guitar...instead of whatever dumpster fire they actually tried to sell.


The original prototype they were selling...






...and what they sell now.









They offer different scale lengths, incidentally. The one pictured is the 27" scale length one. They're currently $399, with the usual Rondo guarantee.


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## iamaom (Mar 7, 2018)

Did anyone here get that rondo prototype? What the hell happened? I can't imagine those "headless" guitars are selling very well.


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## raytsh (Mar 7, 2018)

Explorer said:


> Regarding body shape, I'm going to reach back to the 2010 "Headless Agile?" topic wherein members were trying to convince Rondo to build the Hessian. Justin tossed out many interesting mock-ups.



This looks more like the Boden type body shape to me. What makes the skerveTEN stand out a bit amongst headless EGs are the two curves under the bridge/controls area, the tuners are located over the body and do not protrude and, how the body wood is exposed as part of the horns. The NK Luminous has quite many of these visual features. At least that came to mind first. But that might just because I am familiar with the skerveTEN model.


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## gujukal (Mar 7, 2018)

vortex_infinium said:


> s**tChinasays.jpg
> 
> China has been killing it lately. But stainless steel frets out on a $270 China guitar also has me skeptical.


Stainless steel frets is barely more expensive that nickel frets, so why not? It's just a bit more work from what i know.


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## gujukal (Mar 7, 2018)

Cool guitar, your posture when playing cant be good for your back though :O
Anyone knows if there's is something like this but sevenstring? Seems to be mostly 6-string chinese headless guitars out there.


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## raytsh (Mar 7, 2018)

gujukal said:


> Stainless steel frets is barely more expensive that nickel frets, so why not? It's just a bit more work from what i know.



Just from the materials they are only slightly more expensive, but it's the fret dressing and general more labor that goes into stainless steel frets that makes them more expensive.

Strandberg has some 7/8 strings. Extended range is not uncommon with headless guitars.


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## gujukal (Mar 7, 2018)

raytsh said:


> Just from the materials they are only slightly more expensive, but it's the fret dressing and general more labor that goes into stainless steel frets that makes them more expensive.
> 
> Strandberg has some 7/8 strings. Extended range is not uncommon with headless guitars.


Yeah i know, but since labor i so cheap in China it's probably not something that will add a lot to the price. I'm aware of the strandbergs  Just want something cheap since I'm not sold on headless guitars yet.


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## crackout (Mar 7, 2018)

Stainless steel is a lot more durable than nickel silver which can not only influence the amount of time one has to deal with the frets but also the overall quality.
Getting them smooth requires a lot more incremental sanding and polishing which might be simply ommited resulting in bad frets.


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 7, 2018)

crackout said:


> Stainless steel is a lot more durable than nickel silver which can not only influence the amount of time one has to deal with the frets but also the overall quality.
> Getting them smooth requires a lot more incremental sanding and polishing which might be simply ommited resulting in bad frets.





gujukal said:


> Yeah i know, but since labor i so cheap in China it's probably not something that will add a lot to the price. I'm aware of the strandbergs  Just want something cheap since I'm not sold on headless guitars yet.



Frets are actually quite nice. They need some leveling, but they're nicely polished and shiny and there's no oxidizing or rust. I've gotten my fair share of guitars that have unfinished frets, and again these aren't perfect because they need some leveling, but they're nicely polished and not sharp, nice rounding on the neck. 

It's also important to note, I think, that this is in fact a Korean made instrument. I'm not sure which factory, don't have that level of intimate knowledge, but it's Korean. I think that explains the level of quality in the build, because it's a really well done instrument when you fine tooth comb it (again, on par with a >$1,000 Schecter imo), and the consistency of the company.

It's a real spalted maple top, real flame maple neck and fretboard, real bone nut, real luminlays, the pickups are Artec brand and sound great...

All for $270. This is a screaming deal, and I think it's going to be difficult to find something wrong with it, but I think it's instinctive to look considering the price.


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## downburst82 (Mar 7, 2018)

Happy NGD it looks and sounds great 


Ive had my eye on these for awhile but haven't pulled the trigger just yet as I'm waiting to hear back it they can do a 5 piece neck for me.

One thing to note is a lot of their stained necks appear to not be actual flame maple and instead it seems to be a faux flame effect they create with the staining process (not sure if your is real or not).

Where did it ship from? I could see these being made in Korea but my gut still says for that price with those specs it would probably be China.


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## lewis (Mar 7, 2018)

god I want one.

I have the Grote already.
Im tempted to order any of these going forward, WITHOUT that bridge. (so it turns up with no bridge, or holes drilled)
then install my own ABM or Hipshop bridge myself.


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## Jacksonluvr636 (Mar 7, 2018)

Damn, I want one of these.


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 7, 2018)

downburst82 said:


> Happy NGD it looks and sounds great
> 
> 
> Ive had my eye on these for awhile but haven't pulled the trigger just yet as I'm waiting to hear back it they can do a 5 piece neck for me.
> ...



It shipped from Hong Kong, but I've had a few commenters that insist that they're made in Korea. I think that he's correct, though, just based on the Korean hardware, pickups and general style of build. Oh, and the neck is absolutely flamed maple, as is the fretboard. I have heard/seen that, though! I was surprised that it was a real flame when I got it, honestly.


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## Shoeless_jose (Mar 7, 2018)

Lord Voldemort said:


> It shipped from Hong Kong, but I've had a few commenters that insist that they're made in Korea. I think that he's correct, though, just based on the Korean hardware, pickups and general style of build. Oh, and the neck is absolutely flamed maple, as is the fretboard. I have heard/seen that, though! I was surprised that it was a real flame when I got it, honestly.



What evidence does this commenter have that makes you so certain??


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 7, 2018)

Dineley said:


> What evidence does this commenter have that makes you so certain??



Haha, there was no evidence, he was just incredibly confident in it and said that he knew who made them, and owned a few. 

It's not really all that important where it's made, so long as it's good, right? Doesn't it just matter that it's good, which these have notoriously been? Unless you're a stickler for labor rights, which is fair. 

Either way, pretty confident these are Korean.


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## Shoeless_jose (Mar 7, 2018)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Haha, there was no evidence, he was just incredibly confident in it and said that he knew who made them, and owned a few.
> 
> It's not really all that important where it's made, so long as it's good, right? Doesn't it just matter that it's good, which these have notoriously been? Unless you're a stickler for labor rights, which is fair.
> 
> Either way, pretty confident these are Korean.




Yeah definitely the end product is all that really matters, which is why it just seemed weird that some guy is insisting they are korean with nothing to back it up. Seems more like he is reaching for some validation that he got secret deal on korean instruments priced/advertised as Chinese.

Glad you're digging yours though and that people arent getting firewood like with many Chibsons


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 7, 2018)

Dineley said:


> Yeah definitely the end product is all that really matters, which is why it just seemed weird that some guy is insisting they are korean with nothing to back it up. Seems more like he is reaching for some validation that he got secret deal on korean instruments priced/advertised as Chinese.
> 
> Glad you're digging yours though and that people arent getting firewood like with many Chibsons



That's not what it seems like to me, but I guess it's possible. 

He said that the brand is an offshoot of an old Korean brand called Ruckabee guitars, which apparently made this exact guitar but say Ruckabee and not NK. I didn't ask him for pictures or proof, but this guitar doesn't seem like a Chinese guitar for a lot of reasons, and more feels like the guitars I've played from Korea, and has Korean aftermarket pickups, so I have no trouble believing that it's Korean but sold on AliExpress/eBay. But yeah, without emailing the builder it's hard to say for sure. I suppose I could though, I'd be interested.


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 21, 2018)

Alright, as promised here's a more thorough review after the pickup swap and set up. If there's anything I missed feel free to ask!


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## lewis (Mar 21, 2018)

Lord Voldemort said:


> Alright, as promised here's a more thorough review after the pickup swap and set up. If there's anything I missed feel free to ask!



you are not helping my GAS for this one to go with my Grote headless strandberg copy...


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Mar 21, 2018)

The last page opened some old wounds from when Rondo failed to deliver a headless trem model. I remember having the prototype in the cart while I mulled over waiting for options in the full production that never happened. I’m glad Gibson revived the Spirit brand four years too late to make it on the bandwagon, but I want more options than Chinese eBay fronts in the budget headless marketplace. 



gujukal said:


> Stainless steel frets is barely more expensive that nickel frets, so why not? It's just a bit more work from what i know.



People of a certain generation will never get that through their heads and, because of them, stainless frets will remain a premium bulletpoint for the big brands for at least another five years. Same for bookmatched veneers: To this day, guys will walk past a heavily discounted Martin and grab something of similar price off the wall to admire the sheet of bookmatched spruce paper, then tell you how good it sounds as a result, while they strum between three open chords and experience what can only be taken to be an orgasm in their pants. Then they manage to put it back on the hanger wrong, while resting their hands on their hips in what’s supposed to look like admiration, and remark on how they want to own “one of them” someday.

Because of that, every $30 guitar on eBay has a figured “top.”

I doubt this disclaimer will ward off the three or so posters that regularly want to remind everyone that they’re a luthier (read: weekend tech), but I have indeed refretted stainless in the past. To paint it as a demanding achievement is to not have put the same amount of care into a nickel fretjob.

Edit: I’m of course not referring to pondman. He’s not a luthier, but rather who luthiers pray to.


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 21, 2018)

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> The last page opened some old wounds from when Rondo failed to deliver a headless trem model. I remember having the prototype in the cart while I mulled over waiting for options in the full production that never happened. I’m glad Gibson revived the Spirit brand four years too late to make it on the bandwagon, but I want more options than Chinese eBay fronts in the budget headless marketplace.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You seem incredibly judgmental. People like shiny things, and sometimes a pretty, shiny guitar that costs $500 can be more attractive than a guitar made in a 'better' country that costs $2,000. 

The way that people view instruments is almost always completely silly and entirely subjective. You might like something because it has good reviews, is made in America by a brand with a good reputation and it has frets that aren't sharp, whereas someone might like something that's made in who knows where because it's shiny, pointy and is entirely unencumbered by the minute flaws that the guitar presents. 

Let's be honest, does it really affect your playing if a guitar is worse than another guiatr? It's not like I can suddenly play Jason Becker covers on a Daemoness guitar while I can only play Nirvana on an Epiphone. 

All that shit is imaginary.


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## jarnozz (Mar 22, 2018)

And I just pulled the trigger on a blue poplar one. Helps towards the waiting game for my Ormsby...


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## grail21 (Mar 23, 2018)

Great review, the second video was also super informative. I like that you explained the full cost with the pickup upgrades, fret level and setup. I think folks who are expecting full perfection for $270 are expecting too much - I'd say the same thing for any of the entry level guitars from the big brands. I also agree that it seems like you're getting a lot of guitar for the money (compared to the bigger brand, and when buying new vs used). I've been contemplating one of these but can't get over the bridge (as you pointed out). The wacky tuning key and how the pegs stick up puts me off. If there was a cost effective way to replace it, I'd consider it more, but everything I've seen as an option feels cost prohibitive for this level of instrument. Still - seams like a lot of guitar for the money, obviously unique and when compared to other "brand name" headless guitars a huge cost saving (even including the setup). If they offered a better designed bridge I'd be in, even more so if it was multiscale.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 24, 2018)

I hate the way headless guitars look, but I'm semi-tempted. For 570 with new pickups, setup, etc. thats a steal. Don't have much use for a third guitar, though. Anyways, HNGD.

One question though: How are you supposed to Djent, Voldy? It ain't got no seventh string!


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## Omzig (Mar 24, 2018)

Great review and follow up many thanks 

If i didn't already own/build my own headless 6'ers id have gone for one of these (still might out of curiosity if my shit on ebay sells this weekend),i just bought the tremolo version of this bridge (used in the ALP travel guitars) for my current build so im looking forward to messing with it,i doubt the issues you have with the upright tuners will bother me much as im used to floyd fine tuners,but well see,again great review & i hope you forwarded it to the NK site on aliexpress/ebay so they can get something out of it.


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## Lord Voldemort (Mar 25, 2018)

Cheers guys, glad I did it justice. 

I don't really know who I'd contact, but considering how many people are buying them after watching the videos I think they're getting some business from me. 

And good! I'm all for it.


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## jarnozz (Apr 11, 2018)

Ok, I’ve ordered one on march 22th. Quick first impressions: very good guitar and worth more than what they cost imo. Pickups are suprisingly good, neck is good, bridge is fine, paintjob is good, no sharp frets, It’s intonated, glow in the dark logo is really nice. I’ll make a ngd / reciew post when i got the time to do so, had 5 minutes today to try it and to snap a picture

I got one in poplar burl blue
View media item 830


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## Don Tonberry (May 23, 2018)

jarnozz said:


> Ok, I’ve ordered one on march 22th. Quick first impressions: very good guitar and worth more than what they cost imo. Pickups are suprisingly good, neck is good, bridge is fine, paintjob is good, no sharp frets, It’s intonated, glow in the dark logo is really nice. I’ll make a ngd / reciew post when i got the time to do so, had 5 minutes today to try it and to snap a picture
> 
> I got one in poplar burl blue
> View media item 830



Can you confirm if the frets are actually stainless steel?


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## sylcfh (May 26, 2018)

My only concern is the bridge because there's no drop in replacement (upgrade) for it.


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## sylcfh (May 26, 2018)

lewis said:


> god I want one.
> 
> I have the Grote already.
> Im tempted to order any of these going forward, WITHOUT that bridge. (so it turns up with no bridge, or holes drilled)
> then install my own ABM or Hipshop bridge myself.





Here you go, but it's more work than installing a bridge. 

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=263698683103


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## lewis (May 26, 2018)

sylcfh said:


> Here you go, but it's more work than installing a bridge.
> 
> http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338014327&icep_item=263698683103



dayumn thats actually awesome. I would much rather that personally hahaha.

Imagine the cool stain possibilities etc. Could even make up a pickguard for it.


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## Ataraxia2320 (May 26, 2018)

To people saying stainless steel frets arent that much more expensive - you're right and wrong. 

The materials arent that more expensive, but tools (think files etc) wear down significantly faster with SS frets. I mean it's not really an issue if you are doing maybe one or two guitars but if you are churning them out, then it becomes significant. 

These tooling costs get brought on to the consumer which is why (or a large part of the reason) SS frets are such an upcharge usually.


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## MaxAidingAres (May 26, 2018)

Ataraxia2320 said:


> To people saying stainless steel frets arent that much more expensive - you're right and wrong.
> 
> The materials arent that more expensive, but tools (think files etc) wear down significantly faster with SS frets. I mean it's not really an issue if you are doing maybe one or two guitars but if you are churning them out, then it becomes significant.
> 
> These tooling costs get brought on to the consumer which is why (or a large part of the reason) SS frets are such an upcharge usually.


I agree with this statement, however this is why I believe stainless steel frets should be industry standard. Simply because if every guitar is made with stainless steel frets, there will be no choice but to make tools to accommodate. There are specialty tools that makes stainless a lot easier to work with but they are specialty tools still


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## Lord Voldemort (May 26, 2018)

I sold this guy the other day. 

I just couldn't get past the bridge, it was really bothering me. I rely on my right hand to play, and it was a huge hinderence. Everything else about it was perfect, but that bridge is just trash.


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## Ataraxia2320 (May 27, 2018)

MaxAidingAres said:


> I agree with this statement, however this is why I believe stainless steel frets should be industry standard. Simply because if every guitar is made with stainless steel frets, there will be no choice but to make tools to accommodate. There are specialty tools that makes stainless a lot easier to work with but they are specialty tools still



This is not how economics works though. The market gets to decide the industry standard is, and that decision is driven by cost/profit margins/demand. This is the reason why nickel is the standard over "better" materials such as bell bronze or stainless steel right now.


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