# First 7-string, to floyd or not to floyd ?



## shikamaru (Mar 30, 2013)

Hi there,

Ive been watching this forum for several months now but this is my first post. As the title says Im about to get a 7-string but Im not sure if I should go with a floyd or not.

Some background about me: Ive been playing on an Ibanez ART-320 for 4 years now and I just love the Tune-o-matic bridge on it but at the same time Ive always wanted a floyd. I stayed away from them because I was told they werent recommended on a low-end/mid-range guitar.

Right now I have the opportunity to get a Apex 2 which has a TOM bridge and Im pretty sure it will be a great guitar to start in the 7-string world. Ive been eyeing on the ibanez RG927QMZ on the internet for quite some time but Im certainly not going to buy a guitar without testing it first and 7-string are nowhere to be found in music stores where I live

I tried a 6-string ibby with the edge zero II bridge and from what I can tell it seems to be pretty stable with regards to tuning, but very stiff, so maybe the ZPS can mitigate the issues traditionally associated with floyds, even on a 7-string ?

So, here is my question: shall I satisfy my GAS with that Apex ?

If floyds on 7-string are not too much of a hassle I may be tempted to wait.

Of course there are other things about that one, since its got dimarzios pups and not ibz pups, mahogany body vs basswood, but no quilted maple top, and no floyd.

Also, shall I ask you in your answer to detail if you play on a fixed bridge or tremolo 7-string ?

Thanks in advance for your input.


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## ElCid (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm more of a casual player and more rhythm than lead, so I prefer hard tail to trem.


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## Kreml (Mar 30, 2013)

Floyds on 7-strings isnt really much of a hassle when you learn to set it up properly, but it takes some time to figure out how it works, but if you think its too much of a hassle to setup, you could just block the bridge, which still gives you the tuning stability the floyd offers

As for the Apex vs. RG 7 question, id go for the RG927QMZ, especially if you liked the 6 string Ibanez. The Premium is probably also better built, and has a "normal" 7 string neck width, where the Apex is more like a 6-string width


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## Daf57 (Mar 30, 2013)

I can say I just got an Apex 2 and love it. I see NO quality issues or drastic differences in quality from the MIJ line. My Apex 1 and K7 are a better quality for sure but there is nothing wrong with the MII Apex 2. It's a fine guitar and perfect for the 1st time 7 stringer in my opinion.

When I got the K7 it was my first time with a FR system - gave me fits on the set up at first. They are very finicky with setup and if you change gauge or tunings. But once set up they are very reliable. 

If you are used to the ToM bridge and like it - go Apex for the first 7 stringer so you can concentrate on learning it. Add the FR system later. 

Daf


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## teamSKDM (Mar 30, 2013)

Go apex, the quilt tops are veneers on the premiums, not tops.


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## edsped (Mar 30, 2013)

I don't see the big deal about quilt top vs. veneer. Most people are buying it for the looks anyway, not the minimal change in tone it would give. 

7 string Floyds aren't any different from 6 string Floyds. I say go for the Floyd if you really want one. The RG itself is also very nice and looks nice to boot, much more so than the Apex IMO. The EZII is a good bridge and should stay in tune just fine when its set up correctly, which isn't hard to do, especially with the thumbscrew adjustment for the spring tension. I would actually suggest taking the ZPS unit out, it can help it return to the zero point more accurately but the bridge should stay in tune without it. It's also makes oblique country style bends possible but the trade off of the way stiffer feel and inability to do flutters isn't at all worth it to me.


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## Azathoth43 (Mar 30, 2013)

Unless you're willing to learn how to properly setup a Floyd type bridge please get the TOM. There are a lot of tutorials out there.

Just realize that instead of 5 minute string changes it may be 15-20 minutes.

Good luck.


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## 7stringDemon (Mar 30, 2013)

Floyd. For all uses and musical types! 

Once you're used to setting it up, it feels as easy as a fixed bridge. You end up developing your own little tricks to make it go easier and faster. 

Also, for a guitar, I'd recommend the Schecter Blackjack C7 ATX (SLS if you need a thinner neck). They make a TOM and FR model. 

I usually love Ibanez's the very most of them all but the black and white ATX FR-7 just look and feel sooooooo good!


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## shikamaru (Mar 30, 2013)

Thanks a lot for all your answers. Im still undecided at this point, I guess when I try the Apex Ill take it if it clicks, or Ill take the RG if it doesnt 

I love the green colour of the apex, I would just love a figured wood instead of something uniform.

That schecter looks nice but is much more expensive than what I can afford atm.


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## edsped (Mar 30, 2013)

Setting up Floyds has never been a big deal to me. If you use something to temporarily block the term when you take all the strings off it makes everything way easier. I stick a AAA battery underneath the Floyd in my RG premium when I change strings and it's pretty much the perfect size. You could also change strings one at a time instead of blocking the trem but that takes too long IMO and it doesn't let you clean the fretboard. The only other difficult thing about Floyds is getting used to overcompensating and undercompensating when tuning since loosening one string will make the others go sharp and tightening it will make them go flat.


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## Shredderboy1658 (Mar 30, 2013)

Setting up a guitar with the edge zero trem is sooo easy compared to an og floyd rose. My first seven was a RG1527, I wanted a floyd for my first 7 because I wanted to stay in one tuning and not be going all around. I'd say go for the RG. Fantastic axes.


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## XxStatiX (Apr 1, 2013)

Yup.As the guys said earlier,go for the floyd only if you WANT it!

Don't get it if you're going to be changing your tunings around casually,cause it gets painful if you don't know how to go on adjusting the tension.

(Have an Ibanez RG,got a wood block on its Edge III)


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## EcoliUVA (Apr 2, 2013)

Floyds aren't that bad after a few setups. However, they ARE a pain if you only have one guitar and want more than one tuning. If you're going to need to tune up or down a half step from, say, A standard, then get the hard tail.

If you plan on switching between B standard and drop A, you could get one of these and block/tremol-no the trem:






(Edit: This picture is kinda misleading. From my experience, if you set up the D-Tuna like that, you'll scrape the finish every time you switch over. You need some space with it. And it's kinda rickety. I sorta hate it, now that I think about it, but it's an option.)

Edward Van Halen Drop D D-Tuna Tuning System at zZounds

So in that case you could get by with a floyd. But if you want to have trem-sex, this is a bad option.

TL;DR: Get the trem if you know your tuning and want to jiggle rods. Get the hard tail if you don't, and/or prefer to stroke instead of jiggle.

If you can't answer either of these, meditate until you find your true self, then ask him what to do. Also ask him why you were so awkward as a kid, and maybe punch him a few times for being a pretentious dick. Then, flip a coin.


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## shikamaru (Apr 2, 2013)

Hi,

Thanks all for your reply 

I had the occasion to try the Apex today.

It didnt occur to me that the TOM bridge was actually recessed. So action is just perfect, I think Ill go for that one. The neck is very comfortable it has quite a flat profile so its even thinner than my ART-320 ! So yeah as far as playabity is concerned, I think that one fits my needs 
The pickups are quite good, at least way better than the ibz I would get on the RG. I just find the neck pickup too bright, so I may replace it with a liquifire or an air norton one day or another, but as a bridge pickup its very nice !
It comes with a fly case while the RG has a soft case.

Its not flawless, because it has a slight finish flaw on the bottom of the body, but IMHO its not worth spending 300 euros more to get a brand new RG with a floyd.

Thanks again for your answer, at least now Im reassured about floyds reliability on 7, I may get a guitar with one in the future, I just dont feel I need one badly now


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## XxStatiX (Apr 3, 2013)

If you would still want the guitar having the Floyd,you could get it,and then you could wood block the bridge if you didn't like it!
Like this!





But hardtail FTW man!


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## shikamaru (Apr 3, 2013)

XxStatiX said:


> If you would still want the guitar having the Floyd,you could get it,and then you could wood block the bridge if you didn't like it!
> Like this!
> 
> 
> ...



TBH I dont see the point of having a floyd and block it since having a floyd usually leads to less sustain, of course you get the tuning stability of a double locking system but for me this less important.
Yesterday I just let a note ring on the apex. It would not die lol I ended up muting the strings because it was still ringing while I was speaking with the guy selling it


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## leechmasterargentina (Apr 3, 2013)

I've always owned guitars having tremolos. Floyd Roses are the best tradeoff between having a tremolo and keeping a stable tuning. In fact, I've always felt I benefit more in that area by having a locking nut.

You mentioned the RG927QMZ. I own an RG827QMZ (Same guitar, except it came with Ibanez stock PUs instead of DiMarzio's stock). What's good about this guitar is that it has the Zero Point System which is something that makes is simpler to set up the guitar overall. I own an RG470 with a simple Floyd and it's a pain to make the Floyd straight with the body.

Somebody mentioned that with fixed bridges you can play more with tunings. Being a perfectionist as I am, you'd still have to re-setup your guitar everytime you do that.

I'm not a tremolo freak. In fact, I was never using it until I started playing with my actual band and some songs started asking for it.

My oppinion is that it's better having it and not using it that not have a Floyd and one day wanting to use it. Of course, it's up to you, but even if you'd changed tunings every week, you wouldn't benefit that much from a hardtail since you still have to re-setup the whole guitar.

One last thing; Floyds look great on guitars


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## sweepingDemon (Apr 3, 2013)

well those newer ibanez trems have that ZPS which allows you to hardtail it or keep it floating, but if you dont get an ibanez you can all ways purchase a tremel-no, Trems are only needed if you are going to be staying in the one tuning and you play lead guitar.


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## edsped (Apr 3, 2013)

The ZPS doesn't really make it a hardtail, it just stabilizes it by basically putting more spring tension on the trem. You wouldn't even be able to use drop A without the other strings going sharp as usual unless maybe you set it up for drop A initially and then tune it up to B with the fine tuners when the nut is locked. Also you can't use Tremol-nos with any of the ZR type trems.


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## monstermanoxar (Apr 3, 2013)

Don't buy a fucking floyd rose if you plan on changing tunings.

I myself will never be buying one


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## stevexc (Apr 3, 2013)

For the longest time I was hardtail-only, but honestly the EZII on my RG827 helped me see the light. It's in all honesty awesome and not too bad to work with once you get used to it, but it does have its pros and cons.

Pros:
*Whammies. *Straight up (or down I suppose) the main point of it, but it adds another tool to your arsenal.
*Tuning stability.* Barring environmental changes having minor effects (my room is above the garage at the front of the house, that couple with being in Canada means it gets pretty chilly during the day for half the year. I'll go a few cents flat sometimes), it stays in tune. No more G-string going down a step after each song, no having to retune after each dive (note that this is partially because of the Edge Zero versus the Floyd's mechanism). It just stays.
*Potentially closer profile* - the Edge Zero can sit closer to the body that a non-recessed Tune-O-Matic can. I don't feel a huge difference, but some do.

Cons:
*It's gonna take you a while to set it up* until you get used to it. It's not straightforward but there's some good resources. Buy a spare set of strings, though.
*Changing tunings dramatically is out* barring a new set up. I can fairly easily go to Drop A, and I could probably get it down to A# standard but that may cause some stability/intonation issues. YMMV but you're more-or-less stuck in one tuning.

If you're willing to try something new, I'd say go for it. If you're not confident in your tech abilities, I'd say pass over it. I took the chance and I love it, and clearly they can't be a bad thing - how many hugely talented artists have floating trems? I mean, if Steve Vai is happy with his, I have no right to complain so long as I take into account the caveats. That said, he can afford a guitar for each tuning he uses and has techs to do his setups... but that still means to me that a floating trem is not fundamentally a detriment.

One other thing I wanted to comment on in your original post, though - while they do use basswood on cheap guitars, it's not a bad wood. Ibanez has been using it on its high end guitars as well as its low end one for decades and it doesn't have to sound bad or cheap. Although if it's just a point of preference rather than concerns over quality that's another story - I love mahogany too.




> You wouldn't even be able to use drop A without the other strings going sharp as usual unless maybe you set it up for drop A initially and then tune it up to B with the fine tuners when the nut is locked.



I haven't had this issue - and if I have, it hasn't been very noticeable. Then again, I usually only play in Drop A for Nile songs. I also tune the G to F# to emulate 6-string B Standard fairly regularly, with no noticeable sharpness on the other strings. I had set it up for 7-string B Standard initially and drop the B or G with the fine tuners.


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## edsped (Apr 3, 2013)

Did you check your guitar with a tuner to see if it was actually in tune and not slightly sharp all across the board? The ZPS itself really shouldn't keep your guitar in tune when dropping the low string unless you've got the spring tension loose enough so that the ZPS is supporting a lot of the stress. The setup recommended by Ibanez of "just enough to have the trem block resting on the ZPS" wouldn't be enough because there's nothing to stop the trem from falling back into the guitar when the tension on that low string is lessened.


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## Snarpaasi (Apr 3, 2013)

Between Apex and Premium I'd go for the RG, but that's mostly because of the looks. I have had two guitars with floyds and noticed they are not for me. Usually I have a TOM bridge and completely satisfied with it, since I tend to switch between standard/drop tunings every now and then.

However, I've ordered and paid a purple JP70, my first seven string ^^We'll see how long it takes to buy a tremol-no.

It matters what you are used to. There's a minor difference for example in bridge height between a fixed and floyd bridges, floyd being usually parallel to the top and fixed a bit higher. I had an issue with my picking hand, as I started with a Les Paul copy. Switching to floyd rose was kinda drastic change.


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## stevexc (Apr 3, 2013)

edsped said:


> Did you check your guitar with a tuner to see if it was actually in tune and not slightly sharp all across the board? The ZPS itself really shouldn't keep your guitar in tune when dropping the low string unless you've got the spring tension loose enough so that the ZPS is supporting a lot of the stress. The setup recommended by Ibanez of "just enough to have the trem block resting on the ZPS" wouldn't be enough because there's nothing to stop the trem from falling back into the guitar when the tension on that low string is lessened.



You're actually correct, looks like going to drop A sharpens the E A D and G strings by < 10 cents. Which for me isn't a dealbreaker, but yeah.


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## shikamaru (Apr 4, 2013)

stevexc said:


> For the longest time I was hardtail-only, but honestly the EZII on my RG827 helped me see the light. It's in all honesty awesome and not too bad to work with once you get used to it, but it does have its pros and cons.
> 
> Pros:
> *Whammies. *Straight up (or down I suppose) the main point of it, but it adds another tool to your arsenal.
> ...



Man that is a very insightful post thank you !
Just to answer your question first I would love mahogany even more if it was a sustainable wood, because I just love its tone and its more of a preference thing than anything else, I am building a guitar with an alder body atm, but I have nothing against basswood tone wise, my only gripe with it is I find it more prone to stress cracks, not sure this is as durable a wood as alder or mahogany.

Ive got the APEX and I love the way it plays, but Im definitely considering getting a 7 with a floyd in the future.


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## MildlyMoist (Apr 5, 2013)

They are such a ballache. Every guitar I owned until recently was an fr. So glad I dont have it anymore!


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## Given To Fly (Apr 8, 2013)

MildlyMoist said:


> They are such a ballache. Every guitar I owned until recently was an fr. So glad I dont have it anymore!



Same here. When I was younger I had to have a floating bridge which actually meant an Ibanez Edge or Lo Pro Edge. Then I realized one day, "I never actually use this thing. Heck, I haven't even put the bar in for a year!" Now I only have fixed bridges of some variation and don't miss the floating bridges at all. 

If you really want one, go for it. If you could go either way, I suggest not getting one because they can turn into an expensive headache really fast!


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## shikamaru (May 4, 2013)

I&#8217;d like to thank again everyone that has replied to this thread in one way or another.

I&#8217;ve had the APEX for a month now, I just haven&#8217;t played any other guitar except my acoustic since I own it. I just love the feel of the neck, I&#8217;m used to it now. I still have a hard time sometimes but now I can play any 6-string song I could play on it, and I&#8217;m incorporating the 7th in my playing it starts to feel great.

Yesterday we had a jam with 2 friends and I had a blast with it 

I get some fret buzz on higher frets (after 12th fret) on B and E string, but since it&#8217;s perfectly intonated and since I do not use these frets quite often with these I&#8217;m not sure I will fix it.

Thanks again


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