# Proper EQ:ing for A Standard (7-string)?



## TheSymphony (Nov 18, 2015)

As the topic title itself states..

I'm currently tuned to A Standard on my 7-string Ibanez (with an 11-76 string set and 25.5" scale guitar) and no matter how much I am fiddling and adjusting the EQ knobs on my amps - it seems that I can't get a good sound out of it after all. It's just instant mud or too fizzy tone wise in general for giving the notes itself any kind of "justice" or proper form of clarity at all.

My amp is an Blackstar HT Metal 60w combo amplifier - pre-configured and loaded with two Celestion 12" speakers from factory, if that is any kind of advice / guidance for you guys when it comes with helping me out.

Any advices? 

(No, I'm not going to buy me another amp - is currently too broke for that ).


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## jerm (Nov 18, 2015)

well first off, IMO those gauges are way too thick for Drop A. I'm using 10-62 for Drop A. a 66 is probably the biggest you'll want to go for Drop A on a 25.5", any thicker and it'll just be way too much tension, again, IMO. 

The thicker the gauge for the same tuning, the more thick/muddy the sound will be.


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## Nick (Nov 18, 2015)

yeah a set of normal 11's + a 62-68 will probably get you a much better sound. using ultra heavy strings will cause you to have a much more 'round' sound that lacks bite, and in my experience, sustain.

If you arent using one try an OD in front of the amp to boost it. That will generally give you more of a focused sound. You will be able to find a good one relativley cheap if you go used. you dont need to go boutique to get the desired effect.

Also, if you have stock pickups in the Ibanez they will sound like .... so i would get rid of those.


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## KailM (Nov 18, 2015)

I don't know your amp very well, but I have played one once. I don't remember it, to be honest.

But here's what I know about tuning low, and I don't even tune that low. (Drop B is the lowest I've ever gone, and probably ever will go).

You have to cut the bass back quite a bit, otherwise it will sound muddy. The low tuning is where your bass comes from. Make sure there's plenty of mids as well, and maybe a bit more highs than what you'd use with a higher tuning. Gain should probably be lower as well; too much gain just gets muddy real quick.

Normally I'd say "your string gauges are too light" but that is not the case with your setup.

Most importantly, a boost pedal up front will help a great deal. It will trim some of the excess bass going into the preamp, which may enable you to add some bass in the amp's EQ without getting muddy. Bass going into the preamp is not the same as bass after the preamp. This is why OD pedals set for a "clean boost" setting is so popular in metal, especially at low tunings. Untreated, your guitar might be sending excessive bass frequencies to the preamp, which then become distorted and can sound muddy with gain. If you cut some of that bass going into the amp, and instead add it back in AFTER the preamp, you are enhancing frequencies that have already been distorted, which sounds cleaner and tighter. I've also found that an EQ pedal in the effects loop can greatly help tailor your sound and enhance the "thump" without adding mud. The effects loop on most amps affects your tone after it's already been distorted -- so it can have a greater impact on your tone.


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## TheSymphony (Nov 18, 2015)

jerm said:


> well first off, IMO those gauges are way too thick for Drop A. I'm using 10-62 for Drop A. a 66 is probably the biggest you'll want to go for Drop A on a 25.5", any thicker and it'll just be way too much tension, again, IMO.
> 
> The thicker the gauge for the same tuning, the more thick/muddy the sound will be.



I like the feeling and stability that thick strings comes with. And me and thin strings / low notes doesn't go that well, because I'm pretty aggressive when it comes to the pick attack et.c.

Thus thin strings just creates more problems for me than it does good.



Nick said:


> yeah a set of normal 11's + a 62-68 will probably get you a much better sound. using ultra heavy strings will cause you to have a much more 'round' sound that lacks bite, and in my experience, sustain.
> 
> If you arent using one try an OD in front of the amp to boost it. That will generally give you more of a focused sound. You will be able to find a good one relativley cheap if you go used. you dont need to go boutique to get the desired effect.
> 
> Also, if you have stock pickups in the Ibanez they will sound like .... so i would get rid of those.



Well, my Ibanez was equipped with a EMG707 set from factory, so the pickups are not the problem.

Maybe I should use my TS808.. What settings should it be set to for giving me that focused, tight sound that you're speaking about?


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## Nick (Nov 18, 2015)

TheSymphony said:


> Maybe I should use my TS808.. What settings should it be set to for giving me that focused, tight sound that you're speaking about?



why would you not be using this!? 

run the gain on the pedal at almost 0 run the level at 10 adjust the tone to taste.

on the amp keep your gain very low. id set it at zero and have the pedal engaged and just roll the gain up slowly while you play to get it to the level you like.

Also, and i know this probably wont land well, but there is no way you play so aggresivly that using a 65 or 68 for a low A is going to cause you issues unless every note you play is like you are battering the final chord at the encore of a stadium rock gig you have just delivered to a crowd of 10,000.

I doubt you will get the tone you are after using a bottom string that heavy. The 'sound in your head' is probably based loosely around tones you have heard from musicians you like and by and large, touring musicians do not use setups like that. I listen to a lot of death metal so I have experience of tuning low. Not trying to .... on your setup, just trying to give you some advice.


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## mnemonic (Nov 18, 2015)

Thinner strings (to a point) will absolutely sound clearer and tighter, so maybe work on your technique if 65/68 is too light for you in drop A. 

I used to run heavy strings on my 8, and it was a flubby muddy mess, until I dropped the gauges down. 

On a normal 6-string, you can get away with tight strings, but as notes get lower, the strings have to be exponentially thicker to have the same feel, and it really ruins the sound after a point.


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## jc986 (Nov 18, 2015)

I agree with using a boost, but I also feel the issue is likely due to the thickness of the strings. I'm a fairly heavy handed picker myself, and I feel that a 64 in A is the optimal balance between tension/tone.


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## gujukal (Nov 18, 2015)

I wouldn't use much thinner strings. Maybe 70 or 72. Using ligther than that will jsut cause tuning instability and all sorts of mess.


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## Spicypickles (Nov 18, 2015)

Not true at all. 
If your tuners/nut/bridge are up to scratch, you should have any tuning issues unless you're straight hammering your strings out of pitch.


I started on my 8 string with a 90 at E, and my 7th string at 72. Flub city.


dropped them both down about .008 and its sounding mighty fine. Open and clear


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## jerm (Nov 18, 2015)

^truth, i'm rocking a 62 in drop a right now and don't have tuning issues. String gauge isn't your problem....


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 18, 2015)

I've used 74s to tune to E1 @ 27" just for comparison... 72 is a big ass string for A standard.

Could pull off A standard with a 10 - 60 set.


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## FILTHnFEAR (Nov 18, 2015)

Heed the wisdom presented in this thread. 76 is total overkill for A standard and is the biggest culprit in your flubby, muddy tone.

Lower the bass and gain, mids and an OD are your best friends, and an EQ in the loop is magic.


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## newamerikangospel (Nov 18, 2015)

With respect, I use 11-76s on a 26.5 for half step down. This is all preference on feel and how it plays with pickups/wood combination. My schecters feel like they sing with the increased tension (bolt on and set neck models). 

And are you using an overdrive? I don't know what speakers are in it, but "celestion" doesn't mean good. What guitar are you using? From your description, I would guess a 7321, in which the pickups are pretty bad.


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## Konfyouzd (Nov 18, 2015)

Do you do any bending/vibrato? That tension sounds brutal. Maybe I have girly hands.


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## JohnIce (Nov 18, 2015)

I sympathize with your choice of string. I use 74 for A and I won't go lower than 72. My tone is certainly thick, but not muddy.

The boost is probably a good idea. Overall, though, have you experimented a lot with the amount of gain and pick force you use? I use a lot heavier strings and pick harder than my co-guitarist, so he can get away with more gain than I can.

- edit - Oh and it goes without saying, but fretting hand pressure plays a big part in clarity with such thick strings. Fret like you mean it


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## newamerikangospel (Nov 18, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> Do you do any bending/vibrato? That tension sounds brutal. Maybe I have girly hands.



Lol, it actually isn't that bad. One of the reasons I like high tension, is that I can get my action pretty low without buzz. But the longer scale length makes the vibrato feel more buttery to me. Not loose, but more controlled/deliberate.


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## MetalThrasher (Nov 18, 2015)

I tune to A on some of my seven's and I think 74 is overkill. Buy the D'addiro 8 string set and throw out the 74 and you should be set. BTW what settings are you using on the amp? You might have the gain up too much.


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## noUser01 (Nov 18, 2015)

jerm said:


> well first off, IMO those gauges are way too thick for Drop A. I'm using 10-62 for Drop A. a 66 is probably the biggest you'll want to go for Drop A on a 25.5", any thicker and it'll just be way too much tension, again, IMO.
> 
> The thicker the gauge for the same tuning, the more thick/muddy the sound will be.



I really disagree, those aren't too thick at all. Thy Art is Murder use that same tuning, scale length, and string gauges (except with a 74 I believe) and the tone is very clear and crisp. I use a very similar setup for Drop Ab with great results as well. 

Your general rule about the gauge increases and muddiness is totally right, but I wouldn't say his current setup is too heavy.


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## Baelzebeard (Nov 18, 2015)

Did you say your git had emg 707's?

I can't speak for everyone, but I couldn't get along with my 707, (or 81). So if it were my guitar, I'd be looking into a pickup swap.


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## jc986 (Nov 19, 2015)

ConnorGilks said:


> I really disagree, those aren't too thick at all. Thy Art is Murder use that same tuning, scale length, and string gauges (except with a 74 I believe) and the tone is very clear and crisp. I use a very similar setup for Drop Ab with great results as well.
> 
> Your general rule about the gauge increases and muddiness is totally right, but I wouldn't say his current setup is too heavy.



TAIM uses 70, 54, 42, 30, 17, 13, 10 for Drop A.

I still think dropping the string gauge down a bit (even if just dropping to 68 or 70) is going to be the most cost effective way to achieve a clearer sound with this setup, but an EQ pedal could do wonders as well. Cutting out some of the low frequencies and boosting a bit in the mid/upper mid will clean things up a lot.

I'm also curious what speakers come loaded in that Blackstar. I couldn't find the details even on Blackstar's website.


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## asher (Nov 19, 2015)

Baelzebeard said:


> Did you say your git had emg 707's?
> 
> I can't speak for everyone, but I couldn't get along with my 707, (or 81). So if it were my guitar, I'd be looking into a pickup swap.



I hated the 707X that came in my .strandberg* OS7. The upper six strings were okay, but the seventh was a muddy mess.


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## gujukal (Nov 19, 2015)

I've tried a bunch of different string gauges for lower tunings the last years, mostly D'addario. To me, 66 sounded really muddy while 64, 70, 72, 74 had lot more clarity and overtones. So thicker strings doesn't necessarily means more muddy. I'm pretty sure the pick ups are the suspect here, I got EMG's in one my 7s and I've never really been satisfied with the tone.


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## Nick (Nov 19, 2015)

gujukal said:


> I wouldn't use much thinner strings. Maybe 70 or 72. Using ligther than that will jsut cause tuning instability and all sorts of mess.



this is a myth that was probably started on this very forum about 7 years ago!


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## charlessalvacion (Nov 19, 2015)

A lot of factors.

Also, as others stated, you might want to change gauges.

For the amp, easy on the GAIN. Too much will give you muddy mess.
Use the 808 as the boost.


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## gujukal (Nov 19, 2015)

Nick said:


> this is a myth that was probably started on this very forum about 7 years ago!



Strange, i noticed a difference in tuning stability when i moved from 60 to 68 in drop A#. I pick pretty hard so that may also be the reason.


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## crankyrayhanky (Nov 19, 2015)

SSO love their heavy gauge strings, so when SSO tells you you went too far you know it's way too far. Lighten up Yo


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## JohnIce (Nov 19, 2015)

Nick said:


> this is a myth that was probably started on this very forum about 7 years ago!



I'd say it's a matter of personal preference and neither right nor wrong.

You'll find plenty of people on this forum with empirical evidence that their choice of string gauge is right for them. Mythology has nothing to do with it.

- edit - So to clarify, I DO agree with you that thinner strings aren't absolutely a cause of tuning issues, just that it can be. For some people.  Probably worded it a little arrogantly in all haste


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## jerm (Nov 19, 2015)

^the only reason thinner strings are causing tuning issues as far as I've seen is from having the nut slots cut too wide, to accommodate their large gauges. 

So these people that put telephone wires on their guitars and then wonder why they're tone sounds like ass to then proceed to thinner gauges and then blame the thin gauges for their tuning issues.....


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## JohnIce (Nov 19, 2015)

jerm said:


> ^the only reason thinner strings are causing tuning issues as far as I've seen is from having the nut slots cut too wide, to accommodate their large gauges.
> 
> So these people that put telephone wires on their guitars and then wonder why they're tone sounds like ass to then proceed to thinner gauges and then blame the thin gauges for their tuning issues.....



Possibly, but there's also the semantics of what the difference between tuning and intonation is. You can play out of tune on an in-tune guitar, and you can intonate to correct pitch on an out of tune guitar etc. And of course, pick attack can throw your guitar temporarily out of tune and back again, regardless of how well tuned and intonated it is. So "tuning stability" might not necessarily refer to just the result on a tuner, that's only one aspect of playing in tune.

Personally, all I have to add to this thread is that I use 10-52+74 on my guitars and I'm happy as can be. If the OP decides to buy thinner and thinner strings in a search to get rid of mud the OP might be wasting money, is my opinion. The OP can make of that what he will.


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## noUser01 (Nov 19, 2015)

jc986 said:


> TAIM uses 70, 54, 42, 30, 17, 13, 10 for Drop A.
> 
> I still think dropping the string gauge down a bit (even if just dropping to 68 or 70) is going to be the most cost effective way to achieve a clearer sound with this setup, but an EQ pedal could do wonders as well. Cutting out some of the low frequencies and boosting a bit in the mid/upper mid will clean things up a lot.
> 
> I'm also curious what speakers come loaded in that Blackstar. I couldn't find the details even on Blackstar's website.



That must be new or old information, as in a Facebook comment months ago Andy said it was 11-74. I'm positive they used thicker strings at one point, as I had to check what he used when I was trying to set up my RGD's trem properly, and it still sounded great.

Either way, I still use heavier gauges and still have lots of clarity, so I don't think that's the only real issue with his tone.


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## jc986 (Nov 19, 2015)

ConnorGilks said:


> That must be new or old information, as in a Facebook comment months ago Andy said it was 11-74. I'm positive they used thicker strings at one point, as I had to check what he used when I was trying to set up my RGD's trem properly, and it still sounded great.
> 
> Either way, I still use heavier gauges and still have lots of clarity, so I don't think that's the only real issue with his tone.



No worries. I got that info from an interview from late 2014, so if the info you saw on Facebook was more recent they must have changed. You mentioned you're running a 74 in Ab, which would be 20.1 lbs of tension in 25.5 (which is perfectly fine). To get comparable tension to what you're running in A standard OP would need to use a 68 gauge string. In my experience once you exceed 20ish lbs of tension, you start to lose clarity. 

Clarity with super heavy strings is definitely possible but is also very dependent on the rest of the setup. I agree string gauge is not the only issue, but spending $6-8 on a pack of strings to find out is pretty painless compared to the other options (new amp, boost pedal, EQ pedal, etc). 

To the OP, aside from the strings I'd suggest picking up a Danelectro Fish & Chips 7 band EQ. They're only like $30 brand new and even cheaper used and placed in the loop can do wonders for shaping your tone.


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## gujukal (Nov 20, 2015)

I agree with EQ pedal, but put it in front of the amp could work better. I love to boost around 1.5khz in front of the amp and then put hp and lp filter after. I use a Pod Hd for that and would definetly recommend it. U have a lot more control to shape your tone than just using an amp.


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## Drew (Nov 20, 2015)

JohnIce said:


> I'd say it's a matter of personal preference and neither right nor wrong.
> 
> You'll find plenty of people on this forum with empirical evidence that their choice of string gauge is right for them. Mythology has nothing to do with it.
> 
> - edit - So to clarify, I DO agree with you that thinner strings aren't absolutely a cause of tuning issues, just that it can be. For some people.  Probably worded it a little arrogantly in all haste



Yeah, this. Personally, I play Elixir 10s with a 68 low B in B standard, with no issues with clarity or anything. I pick pretty hard, so thicker strings are kind of important for me, and there's a huge gap in the Elixir range, between a 56 (where I can hear my attack audibly going sharp, and which feels too light compared to a 48 low E), and a 68 (which is a little heavier than I'd like, but sounds fine and doesn't really hold me back). A 64 or so would probably be perfect in B standard for me, but clearly there's a pretty wide range around what works and what doesn't, so I doubt your strings alone (provided they're new) are the problem.

Otherwise, for low end clarity I've always thought plenty of midrange and backing off the gain a bit, to give more "attack" to your sound, is pretty helpful.


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## noUser01 (Nov 21, 2015)

jc986 said:


> No worries. I got that info from an interview from late 2014, so if the info you saw on Facebook was more recent they must have changed. You mentioned you're running a 74 in Ab, which would be 20.1 lbs of tension in 25.5 (which is perfectly fine). To get comparable tension to what you're running in A standard OP would need to use a 68 gauge string. In my experience once you exceed 20ish lbs of tension, you start to lose clarity.
> 
> Clarity with super heavy strings is definitely possible but is also very dependent on the rest of the setup. I agree string gauge is not the only issue, but spending $6-8 on a pack of strings to find out is pretty painless compared to the other options (new amp, boost pedal, EQ pedal, etc).
> 
> To the OP, aside from the strings I'd suggest picking up a Danelectro Fish & Chips 7 band EQ. They're only like $30 brand new and even cheaper used and placed in the loop can do wonders for shaping your tone.



For sure, my point was just that - as you said - it's dependent on the entire setup, not just the strings. Just wanted to make sure the OP knows that it's not as simple as "heavy string = mud".


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## Jaxcharvel (Nov 21, 2015)

gujukal said:


> I wouldn't use much thinner strings. Maybe 70 or 72. Using ligther than that will jsut cause tuning instability and all sorts of mess.



I tune to drop A on 25.5 guitars with .56 guage, and I have zero tuning stability issues.


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## op1e (Nov 21, 2015)

.070 is the least I can go on my 7421 in A. I have a .068 on my 26.5 Schecter and really don't like it. My other guitarist and I normally by the EB 8 string pack (for availabilty) and toss the .064 aside. Go 10-52 + 74 but I play drop A normally and he plays standard. The best bet I think would be an 11-54 pack + a .072, but those are hard to find. So far these are the best sets I've been able to find for what I need.

Hybrid Guitar Strings

Hybrid Guitar Strings


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## gujukal (Nov 22, 2015)

Jaxcharvel said:


> I tune to drop A on 25.5 guitars with .56 guage, and I have zero tuning stability issues.



You probably pick very light and have thin picks right? Picking hard with thick picks would make that sucker go sharp.


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## Jaxcharvel (Nov 22, 2015)

I use 1.38 jazz iii's. And I don't necessarily pick like a puss but I'm not trying to bend the space time continuum with each stroke either.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Nov 22, 2015)

I've used from 72 to 64 over the years. And I pick pretty hard. At the moment 64/66 is the lowest i can get away with without my picking messing with the low string. Also, Jeff Loomis swore by a 72 in Bb on a 25/5" scale. So it's all subjective. I like the heavier gauges for tension to alleviate aggressive picking. Don't see a problem with a 76 at all to be honest, some people just like heavy strings and more tension.

Heavy strings aren't the issue here, more amp settings, gain levels and pickups. Start with the amop, roll back bass and gain, add mids to provide chunk and high to taste. Gain wise, roll that back too. If you have a ts808 clean boost in front of the amp, which will allow you to add bass back in, and get more gain, whilst sounding tighter.

Bass wise, just dial it in so the speaker stops "woofing" and being flubby, and remember, low end is the bass players job, guitar is still a mid range instrument.


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## TheSymphony (Nov 25, 2015)

Tried with my Ibanez TS808 pedal - and adjusting the tone / EQ controllers so everything matched eachother tonality wise. 

My tone is pretty much improved, yes. But I'm not happy to 110% - maybe an external equalizer pedal will add the final icing of the cake and give me the tone that I'm after?



Jaxcharvel said:


> I tune to drop A on 25.5 guitars with .56 guage, and I have zero tuning stability issues.



.56 for an low A1? Christ, haha..

I'm using an .056 for that D2 string (6th string) so.. Geez.

That's some thin gauges you uses there..


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## Nick (Nov 25, 2015)

TheSymphony said:


> Tried with my Ibanez TS808 pedal - and adjusting the tone / EQ controllers so everything matched eachother tonality wise.
> 
> My tone is pretty much improved, yes. But I'm not happy to 110% - maybe an external equalizer pedal will add the final icing of the cake and give me the tone that I'm after?





what is it you dont like about your tone with the 808?


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## MistaSnowman (Nov 27, 2015)

jc986 said:


> I'm also curious what speakers come loaded in that Blackstar. I couldn't find the details even on Blackstar's website.



Celestion 70/80's, same as the Blackstar HT Stage 60. Personally, I'd swap those out for Creamback H75's.


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## MarcusProg (Nov 30, 2015)

On EQ: Using an OD or an EQ in front will definitely tighten up an amp because of the rolloff of extreme low bass frequencies. If you left those same frequencies in your signal going into the amp, when you add gain, you are ALSO distorting those same frequencies. Changing the settings on your preamp will help some, but ultimately its the signal *entering* that's the true source of all that muddiness. Once you figure out where the muddy low frequency areas are (I find that around 200Hz is a good place to look first), cut a little bit of it out, and compensate accordingly on your amp if necessary. Remember what you're really trying to affect here is the type of breakup/gain, not necessarily the exact frequency content of the sound that will exit via your speakers.


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## lewis (Nov 30, 2015)

this is why I love the VFE Focus. Being a High and a Low pass filter/boost pedal is so perfect for choosing what frequencies to roll off and what ones you want to boost going into the amp. It gets super tight and super great sounding in but a moment. Plus you can choose how much of the original signal you want to allow in (wet/dry dial) not that I would have it set anything other than 100% on but there you go.

Nolly designed it and lets be honest, he is a god.

EDIT: You could probably also place it in the loop of the amp and use it more like a conventional high/low pass filter post signal although its intended use is for infront of the amp


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## TheSymphony (Dec 5, 2015)

Sorry, folks, for my inactivity. Real life and being busy with work and whatnot have forced me to disable everything that is www / computer / webbased.

I'm back now though!



Baelzebeard said:


> Did you say your git had emg 707's?
> 
> I can't speak for everyone, but I couldn't get along with my 707, (or 81). So if it were my guitar, I'd be looking into a pickup swap.



I've been thinking about changing pickups - from the EMG 707 combo to an 60-7 in neck and maybe and 85-7 in the bridge? Will that give me that beastly and focused rhythm guitar sound, from both pickups positions, or should I go for an 81-7 in the bridge instead? *confused*


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## op1e (Dec 5, 2015)

A 707 is an 85 from what I understand. That's why I've always not gotten along with them. My other guitarist's slime green Dinky came with one in the bridge, he changed it out for an 81-7. Much more bite and definition and he was way happier. We play in A standard on 7's for the most part.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 5, 2015)

asher said:


> I hated the 707X that came in my .strandberg* OS7. The upper six strings were okay, but the seventh was a muddy mess.



I'm experiencing this now. I tuned my RGIT27FE to A standard last night... Every string but the 7th sounds great which is weird because when you read the description of the 707 it sounds like that's specifically what it supposedly avoids. It didn't sound too bad in B standard but it was still a bit off compared to other pickups I've tried. I felt the same about the DiMarzio Blaze actually which boasts similar achievements.



op1e said:


> A 707 is an 85 from what I understand. That's why I've always not gotten along with them. My other guitarist's slime green Dinky came with one in the bridge, he changed it out for an 81-7. Much more bite and definition and he was way happier. We play in A standard on 7's for the most part.



The 707 and 85-7 aren't quite the same. I have both and they're definitely different. I really like the 81-7 in the bridge and haven't had a chance to throw the 85-7 in the bridge just yet. But just comparing it in the neck position with a 707 it's clear they're different beasts. The 85-7 seems to retain the general tone of the 707 (hence why I think people tend to think they're the same pup) but it's got more definition as you go to lower registers which is something I haven't been able to achieve as readily with the 707.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 5, 2015)

You know what I just thought of that might help in some of these threads? If folks have the means and are willing to do so, it would kind of help to see a video of them playing. There are a lot of variables in string gauge choices.


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## TheSymphony (Dec 5, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> I'm experiencing this now. I tuned my RGIT27FE to A standard last night... Every string but the 7th sounds great which is weird because when you read the description of the 707 it sounds like that's specifically what it supposedly avoids. It didn't sound too bad in B standard but it was still a bit off compared to other pickups I've tried. I felt the same about the DiMarzio Blaze actually which boasts similar achievements.
> 
> 
> 
> The 707 and 85-7 aren't quite the same. I have both and they're definitely different. I really like the 81-7 in the bridge and haven't had a chance to throw the 85-7 in the bridge just yet. But just comparing it in the neck position with a 707 it's clear they're different beasts. The 85-7 seems to retain the general tone of the 707 (hence why I think people tend to think they're the same pup) but it's got more definition as you go to lower registers which is something I haven't been able to achieve as readily with the 707.





Konfyouzd said:


> You know what I just thought of that might help in some of these threads? If folks have the means and are willing to do so, it would kind of help to see a video of them playing. There are a lot of variables in string gauge choices.



Do you think an 60-7 in neck position and 85-7 in bridge will help me with my tone issues?


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## Josh Nanocchio (Dec 5, 2015)

Why on earth do all of you use such massively thick string guages? Holy balls...

On my 7 I use .10 (high e) to .58 (low B) and I play in Bb Standard and I NEVER have tunning issues.

You guys using .70s and .... are insane.

Also might I recommened a HP and LP on your guitars.

I cut from 100hz and everything below that is a good place to start.

I cut from 7000 and up so the HP/LP Keeps things less fizzy and more clean


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## jc986 (Dec 5, 2015)

TheSymphony said:


> Do you think an 60-7 in neck position and 85-7 in bridge will help me with my tone issues?



I'd go with an 81-7 over the 85-7. The 81-7 is considerably tighter. The 85-7 and 707, while slightly different pickups do have a lot of similarities.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 5, 2015)

TheSymphony said:


> Do you think an 60-7 in neck position and 85-7 in bridge will help me with my tone issues?



That's my plan, but I don't know for sure. If I try it before you do I'll tell you how it works out. I may put an 81 in the neck honestly.


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## op1e (Dec 5, 2015)

Josh Nanocchio said:


> Why on earth do all of you use such massively thick string guages? Holy balls...
> 
> On my 7 I use .10 (high e) to .58 (low B) and I play in Bb Standard and I NEVER have tunning issues.
> 
> ...



You're the minority, dude. I play lower than that, drop A, A standard, and drop G between two guitars. A .58 wouldn't quite cut it on for G/A on 26.5.
Look up the string tension guide. 18-20 lbs is optimum across all strings, and a 58 aint gonna cut it. But I get it, you're awesome. You can play on tooth floss. One up.


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## JohnIce (Dec 5, 2015)

Josh Nanocchio said:


> Why on earth do all of you use such massively thick string guages? Holy balls...
> 
> On my 7 I use .10 (high e) to .58 (low B) and I play in Bb Standard and I NEVER have tunning issues.
> 
> You guys using .70s and .... are insane.



This is a bit of a pointless argument because ALL guitars have tuning issues. And intonation issues, and pitch wobble. They're not midi keyboards. So you claiming to never have tuning issues means nothing more than that the issues that exist don't bother you, personally. Which is as good as any of us are gonna get in a discussion like this.

Just as an anecdote, Paul Gilbert once spent 4 hours trying to record a G chord in tune. Ask ANY big name recording engineer what they think about guitars and tuning issues, I dare you  Not to mention melodyne on bass is pretty much standard these days.

So yeah, claiming you don't have tuning issues is, well, not really true. But good that you don't let it get in the way of enjoying guitar playing, that's the best we can do


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## FILTHnFEAR (Dec 5, 2015)

TheSymphony said:


> Sorry, folks, for my inactivity. Real life and being busy with work and whatnot have forced me to disable everything that is www / computer / webbased.
> 
> I'm back now though!
> 
> ...



If you're going to go for an 85, get the 85x-7. I have an 85x in the bridge of my S920. Awesome for rhythm. It's super clear, tight, and chunky. Way better than the 81 that it came with. Of course, I'm assuming that the 85x-7 will sound similar to the 85x.


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## TheSymphony (Dec 6, 2015)

FILTHnFEAR said:


> If you're going to go for an 85, get the 85x-7. I have an 85x in the bridge of my S920. Awesome for rhythm. It's super clear, tight, and chunky. Way better than the 81 that it came with. Of course, I'm assuming that the 85x-7 will sound similar to the 85x.



Yeah, I've heard about the EMG X series.

What is the difference between the regular EMG versus the EMG X pickups? Have not really got the whole picture about this part specially at all..



jc986 said:


> I'd go with an 81-7 over the 85-7. The 81-7 is considerably tighter. The 85-7 and 707, while slightly different pickups do have a lot of similarities.



Maybe an EMG 60-7X (neck position) and 81-7X (bridge position) combo is worth looking more into..?



Josh Nanocchio said:


> Why on earth do all of you use such massively thick string guages? Holy balls...
> 
> On my 7 I use .10 (high e) to .58 (low B) and I play in Bb Standard and I NEVER have tunning issues.
> 
> ...



Someone here seems to love spaghetti. That's good.


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## fps (Dec 6, 2015)

Wow, there are some really immature forum members responding to someone saying they use light string gauges. Meshuggah used 9-52 on their 7 strings for Chaosphere. There is no right answer, only different perspectives.


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## TheSymphony (Dec 6, 2015)

fps said:


> Wow, there are some really immature forum members responding to someone saying they use light string gauges. Meshuggah used 9-52 on their 7 strings for Chaosphere. There is no right answer, only different perspectives.



Immature for making a joke about light string gauges compared to the desired tuning? Hey, some folks here is then also immature for trying to bash on people that uses thicker strings?


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## Winspear (Dec 6, 2015)

It's all preference but one thing I'll always jump in to correct is the assumption that such strings are unusually tight. A 70 for A is perfectly reasonable - its actually slightly looser than a 36 A an octave higher which is very, very normal. Just so happens that most 7 string guitar sets are very loose on the low end and most people are adapted to that. Once you feel the 'correct' tension of a heavier string to match the rest, it's hard to go back!


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## jc986 (Dec 6, 2015)

TheSymphony said:


> Yeah, I've heard about the EMG X series.
> 
> What is the difference between the regular EMG versus the EMG X pickups? Have not really got the whole picture about this part specially at all..
> 
> Maybe an EMG 60-7X (neck position) and 81-7X (bridge position) combo is worth looking more into..?



The X series are supposed to have a bit more headroom and sound more dynamic. You can achieve a very similar effect by running standard EMG's in 18V or 24V. You can do this by wiring in an additional 9V or my preference is to just buy something like this so I don't have to modify anything: 24 Volt Mod Active Guitar Pickup Battery Pack


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 7, 2015)

EtherealEntity said:


> It's all preference but one thing I'll always jump in to correct is the assumption that such strings are unusually tight. A 70 for A is perfectly reasonable - its actually slightly looser than a 36 A an octave higher which is very, very normal. Just so happens that most 7 string guitar sets are very loose on the low end and most people are adapted to that. Once you feel the 'correct' tension of a heavier string to match the rest, it's hard to go back!



This is what I thought, but I'm going back. The guitar I ever had the easiest time playing was in drop Ab with 12-56 strings at 25.5". Absolute spaghetti, because I think it was something like ~12lbs on that low string, but I could get around that guitar cleaner and faster than anything else I've played on. When I decided to go into 8-string range I read all I could I string tension, what people were doing, what was working, etc. and have been playing a "balanced" set from Kalium with a 90 for the low E (~20-21lbs) and I liked it at first, but I have to completely re-configure my pick and fret hand movements to mute that 90 a whole bunch extra, because at that tension, even with low action, it requires two wide points of contact to mute it from ringing, and I had to do a whole bunch of fun pre-EQing to make it sound like a guitar instead of a really punchy bass. 

As for the OP, I do think you're strings are a little overkill, but you could probably get the sound you want with a boost and some EQ first in the chain to get the sound hitting your gain stages cleaner/tighter.


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## p4vl (Dec 8, 2015)

Get a used MXR 10-band EQ. Failing that, new speakers.


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## newamerikangospel (Dec 16, 2015)

Fun story that ties into string gauge.

I "blind ordered" a km7 as I wanted a passive pickup guitar to do quad tracks with my sls active and the km7 seemed to pretty much be a swamp ash version of it. it was setup with 9-46+64 from the factory. I played with it for a few hours and thought "oh, wow. I don't like this guitar" yesterday. There was a hollow "Chang" to the sound and I wasn't sure if I was going to keep it. I came home today, put my 11-58+74s on it to make sure that wasn't the issue, and now I love the guitar. Some of the bright, transient attack is replaced by a smoother, more powerful and punchy attack. 

Just sharing, since it was a big part of this conversation, and it made me immediately think of it.


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## Jaek-Chi (Dec 16, 2015)

New pickups....

EMG's are a very muddy pickup to begin with. BKP's are the way to go IMO. Roll off the gain and chuck in your tube screamer. These should all help to a degree.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 19, 2015)

I finally dropped the 85-7 in the bridge on my RGIT27FE. It tightened up the bottom end significantly.  

I left the 707 in the neck and I actually really like the 85-7/707 combo. I think Rusty Cooley uses it at well.


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## FILTHnFEAR (Dec 19, 2015)

Jaek-Chi said:


> New pickups....
> 
> EMG's are a very muddy pickup to begin with.


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## Jaek-Chi (Dec 22, 2015)

You don't agree i gather? lol


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## JPhoenix19 (Dec 22, 2015)

EDIT: Sometimes, people post without reading the dates or noticing there's multiple pages. This is one of those times for me. 


First, check your string gauge/intonation. Pay mind to inharmonicity inherent in thicker strings. Consider trying a (properly intonated) set of strings one or two gauges thinner and see if the *clean* unaffected tone of your guitar is more clear (pitch more recognizable) than with the thicker strings- properly intonated.

Second, check your amp's gain settings. As you may know, too much gain may sound good on it's own, but will get lost with other instruments. A good rule of thumb I've found with high gain amps is if you are going over 3/4 on the gain knob, it's probably too high. This will be especially important if you use that TS808.

Speaking of the TS808, don't use it as a gain boost. Instead, use it as an EQ filter. That means start with the "gain" all the way down, and the "tone" and "volume" knobs at 12 o'clock. With the pedal on and the knobs set that way, you'll be filtering out some of the muddy lows from your guitar's signal. That alone should clear it up. If you need more presence in the mix, bump the tone knob up a bit. If you need more crunchy gain, carefully increase the volume knob. Pretty much never touch the TS808's gain knob.

Third, if you haven't already get to know your ISF knob.

From what I remember, 707's are actually sort of "scooped" and will benefit from something like a TS pedal in front of the amp.


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## Thrashman (Dec 24, 2015)

As most people here have said, you are probably not liking the tone you get because the strings you use are too thick for what you want to accomplish.

The majority of players want to retain that 10-46 in e standard feel without sacrificing the crunch and attack that comes with thinner strings, but it is just not possible without some sacrifice or compensation from your side to make it happen. It's all physics.

You actually have to change your picking technique/approach to get to where you want - especially on a standard scale guitar.
A lighter touch and angling the pick down when you play lighter gauges will alleviate the "boing" effect and a lighter touch will just help you gain good technique in general. Yeah, stomping the strings like an elephant in a staircase is awesome, but good tone requires good technique. 

Hope that helps a bit.


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## Nick (Dec 24, 2015)

Jaek-Chi said:


> EMG's are a very muddy pickup to begin with.



If ever there was a statement to show that people talk utter .... about gear on the internet it is this.

Some things are about personal preference but this statement is factually incorrect


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## jc986 (Dec 24, 2015)

Nick said:


> If ever there was a statement to show that people talk utter .... about gear on the internet it is this.
> 
> Some things are about personal preference but this statement is factually incorrect



Agreed. I love when people throw a blanket statement over an entire brand like that.


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## Jaek-Chi (Dec 28, 2015)

Ok, should i reword it? They are muddy compared to a lot of other pickups. I'm making the assumption that if he is using EMG's, and playing on a guitar with more than 6 strings it's likely he's playing something along the lines of Rock/Metal? Comparing EMG to higher quality pickups, they are a muddier, looser pickup. I didn't say they weren't a good pickup, but comparing them to a lot of other rock/metal style pickups that people may use, i would personally consider them muddy in comparison.


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## jc986 (Dec 28, 2015)

Muddy & loose are not words that most people would use when describing an EMG 81. EMG has a lot of different pickups too, so lumping all of them together in one blanket statement as loose and muddy just doesn't make sense to me. I also wouldn't rate EMG's as being any lower quality than any other major brand of pickup. I don't think my Bareknuckle pickups are of any higher quality than my Seymour Duncan's, DiMarzio's or EMG's. 

In a metal context, the list of pickups with better tightness and clarity than an EMG 81 would be shorter than the list of pickups that the EMG 81 bests in those categories. Not saying that there aren't better choices depending on the context and personal taste, but EMG pickups as a whole just simply aren't muddy & loose. 

And this is coming from a guy that has EMG's in only one guitar of the nine that I own.


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## Jaek-Chi (Dec 28, 2015)

Fair enough mate. I've had guitars with EMG's (granted only a few models, 81's, 85's, 60's, HZ's etc), but having put them up against Blackouts, Bareknuckles, and different things of the sort, when really pushing them i found the tone to lose tightness. 

Perhaps for rock and old school metal etc the difference isn't so prominent, but i have found the further into the high gain realm you go, the gap starts to separate. 

I certainly agree the quality is good on the EMG's, i've had plenty and never had an issue with them, i'm simply referring to the tone.


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## Nick (Dec 29, 2015)

that must be why everyone and their dog who wants a tight high gain metal tone goes with EMGs. They are actually designed to sound tight at the expense of other tonal qualities


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 29, 2015)

The only looseness I've found is the 707 and 808 don't have the clarity I want on the bottom end. They seem to work for some folks but I never gelled with those. I fixed the problem with...

 

A different model from EMG.


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## Jaek-Chi (Dec 29, 2015)

Konfyouzd said:


> The only looseness I've found is the 707 and 808 don't have the clarity I want on the bottom end. They seem to work for some folks but I never gelled with those. I fixed the problem with...
> 
> 
> 
> A different model from EMG.



That's exactly what i am referring to. Unfortunately when you plug one guitar in that has as EMG 81 and then plug in another similar quality guitar that has a BKP Warpig, the difference is much bigger than i'd like. To me that low end looseness sticks out to my ears like dogs balls. They have nice bite and crunch, i just can't get over the bottom end.

So i wasn't trying to be some irritating troll, or make some stupid statement, but unfortunately to me when i compare EMG's to other pickups (though not many other actives i've played have been exceptionally better) i find them loose and muddy, mainly in the low end.


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## FILTHnFEAR (Dec 29, 2015)

Saying Emg 81's are "loose and muddy" is like saying a Dual Rec or 5150 doesn't have enough gain.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 29, 2015)

I've been finding lately that I like the 85 far more than I like the 81 in the bridge. I'm not sure how much better it will work out for others, though.


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## FILTHnFEAR (Dec 29, 2015)

I replaced the 81 in my S920 with an 85x and I'd never go back. Still super tight and clear with a lot more chunk to it.


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## Jaek-Chi (Dec 29, 2015)

Ok that Inigo Montoya picture is rather amusing...

Unfortunately i still can't quite agree with others. There is so much lacking in the low end of them. I'd like to mention i'm playing death/tech death metal through things like ENGL's, 6505's, Randall Satans, so when you are busting the nuts off an amp it certainly shows up a lot. Anyways, that's my opinion, i just find a good quality passive to be so much tighter and cleaner sounding. Much more clarity, and precision.


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## fps (Dec 30, 2015)

Jaek-Chi said:


> Ok that Inigo Montoya picture is rather amusing...
> 
> Unfortunately i still can't quite agree with others. There is so much lacking in the low end of them. I'd like to mention i'm playing death/tech death metal through things like ENGL's, 6505's, Randall Satans, so when you are busting the nuts off an amp it certainly shows up a lot. Anyways, that's my opinion, i just find a good quality passive to be so much tighter and cleaner sounding. Much more clarity, and precision.



I understand exactly what you mean, and think it's a question of what the words mean to different people.


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## warlock7strEMG (Dec 30, 2015)

OK I have not had a chance to read in detail every post on this thread, but I will lend some potentially helpful advice. 

First off, your pickups I believe are fine. One of my bandmates has a Basswood Ibanez RG7 with a 707 on the bridge and it is literally one of my favorite guitars ever. Basswood has a ton of midrange and not much else, but the EMG 707 has a lot of low mid and just enough sizzle to complement the basswood. 

I don't know what your settings are, but with an EMG 707 make sure you use the low end very sparingly. They have plenty of bass. Bass at 5 or lower is a good starting point. Make sure your mids are at 6 or above. As far as your treble goes 5 is a good starting point. Take it easy on the resonance knob to ensure that it doesn't get too muddy. Start at five on it. And the same with your presence, to ensure that it does not get to fizzy. I don't know exactly how much you gain your amp has, but I would say 6 is a good starting point. 

Now something that I don't believe anyone else has mentioned is that the Blackstar amps have a knob called the ISF knob. Long story short if you turn it left it goes more American sounding, turn to the right goes more British sounding. With a dark sounding guitar like you have I would strongly suggest turning the ISF knob closer to at least 6 and go up from there. The closer to 10 you will get the more upper mid heavy your amp is going to be. Since you said your tone goes from too muddy to too fizzy, I have a feeling that more upper mids is what you need. 

Once you have found an improved sound using the ISF knob go from there tweaking your resonance and presence. Once you have the ISF knob in a satisfactory place if you find your tone is a little bit lacking in the low-end, compensate for it a bit by bumping up the resonance knob. If you need a little bit more bite, dial up the presence of a little bit more. Or too much fizz and attack, roll the presence back. I find that almost any amp that it's better shape your attack and low end with the presence and resonance knobs and to take it easy on the bass and treble knobs. 

If you find yourself still wanting to change pickups, I would highly recommend the EMG 57-7 in the bridge. It has plenty of output but is a much warmer yet more crisp pickup than the 707. It has a bit more upper midrange but is still ballsy sounding. 

Or if you are not particularly stuck on EMG, then I would highly recommend the Seymour Duncan Blackout EMTY 7 in the bridge. It is by far the tightest clearest pickup for low tuning I have ever played on.


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## TheSymphony (Dec 31, 2015)

warlock7strEMG said:


> OK I have not had a chance to read in detail every post on this thread, but I will lend some potentially helpful advice.
> 
> First off, your pickups I believe are fine. One of my bandmates has a Basswood Ibanez RG7 with a 707 on the bridge and it is literally one of my favorite guitars ever. Basswood has a ton of midrange and not much else, but the EMG 707 has a lot of low mid and just enough sizzle to complement the basswood.
> 
> ...



Oh, man.

Thanks a lot for the help, advice(s) and support.

One question though..

I'm using my Blackstar together with an Ibanez TS808 - how should I tweak / tune both the amp and the TS808 EQ / tonewise, so they matches each other perfectly?

The case is that I've got my RG7 adjusted and intonated for F# tuning (F1#-B1-E2-A2-D3-F3#-B3) with an custom 13-95 string set, because I needed the lower register, that the B tuning of the first 6 strings gives me AND also for using the lower F# for single note / strict rhythm playing - but I don't know how I should really adjust both my amp and my TS808 for giving my guitar the "love" it deserves, if you get my point?


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## warlock7strEMG (Dec 31, 2015)

TheSymphony said:


> Oh, man.
> 
> Thanks a lot for the help, advice(s) and support.
> 
> ...



Oh no problem at all!! Glad to help. 

My advice would be to do everything that I mentioned above, but with TS808 off.

Once you get the amp all sorted out and fine tuned to the way you like by itself, then it's time to add the TS. 

Set the TS808 with the pedal like this:
-drive at 0 
-tone at half(5)
-level at about 3/4 of the way up

Once you turn on the TS, you are going to want to adjust your amp to accommodate for what pedal adds. 

-First and foremost turn your amp gain down. The TS adds some compression and saturation so you don't need to use nearly as much amp gain. And this is awesome because less amp gain means more clarity. Amp gain at 5 or below would be optimal. Not only will the single string stuff have more clarity with less amp gain, but the added compression will make them "bounce" more. 

- The next thing to adjust once you add the TS is presence and resonance. A tubescreamer is going to add more presence and attack(much needed for low low turning) and chop off some of the low bass to tighten things up. You may be fine with both of those things but if you find the bass cut to be too much, add more amp resonance to make up for it. If you find that the TS added too much brightness/attack/presence, turn down the amps presence a little. 

With those things in mind you should be fine and be able to get the sound you are after.


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## TheSymphony (Jan 1, 2016)

warlock7strEMG said:


> Oh no problem at all!! Glad to help.
> 
> My advice would be to do everything that I mentioned above, but with TS808 off.
> 
> ...



Oh, thanks a lot! Will save your two post(s), for using them as references when finetuning / EQ:ing my desired guitar tone.

Can't thank you enough, mate!


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## BillCosby (Jan 1, 2016)

I use a 9-56 set for Bb Standard and Drop Ab on a 27" and a 26.5". Tuning stability issues with lighter strings is bull.....


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## TheSymphony (Jan 2, 2016)

BillCosby said:


> I use a 9-56 set for Bb Standard and Drop Ab on a 27" and a 26.5". Tuning stability issues with lighter strings is bull.....



And I'm using a 13-95 set for F# Standard on my 25.5" 7-string Ibanez with good results.

I love the tighter, more "compressed" tone that thicker strings comes with. It also easier to play rhythm guitar based riff(s) with heavier strings, in my opinion.

So?


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## BillCosby (Jan 2, 2016)

TheSymphony said:


> And I'm using a 13-95 set for F# Standard on my 25.5" 7-string Ibanez with good results.
> 
> I love the tighter, more "compressed" tone that thicker strings comes with. It also easier to play rhythm guitar based riff(s) with heavier strings, in my opinion.
> 
> So?



Good for you, I was addressing people stating that using lighter strings causes tuning instability. Wasn't an opinion, but a fact.

My opinion is that heavier strings sound boomy and in no way sound "tighter" and "compressed".


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## TheSymphony (Jan 2, 2016)

BillCosby said:


> Good for you, I was addressing people stating that using lighter strings causes tuning instability. Wasn't an opinion, but a fact.
> 
> My opinion is that heavier strings sound boomy and in no way sound "tighter" and "compressed".



I don't have any issues with boomy strings after some major, proper EQ:ing - even not on my 0.95 F# string, which is in fact, an bass string.

So.


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## BillCosby (Jan 2, 2016)

TheSymphony said:


> I don't have any issues with boomy strings after some major, proper EQ:ing - even not on my 0.95 F# string, which is in fact, an bass string.
> 
> So.



>no issues with boominess
>have to do major EQ

ok


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## FILTHnFEAR (Jan 3, 2016)

TheSymphony said:


> 13-95 set for F# Standard on my 25.5" 7-string Ibanez



For the love of God 

But hey, whatever works.


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## TheSymphony (Jan 3, 2016)

FILTHnFEAR said:


> For the love of God
> 
> But hey, whatever works.



It works for me. 

And I still have room on my bridge saddle for maybe an low E1 if I am using the same gauge. Perhaps.

Nevermind - better save up for an 27" 7-string then.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 3, 2016)

EDIT: I shouldn't post when I'm sleepy...


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## TheSymphony (Jan 3, 2016)

Konfyouzd said:


> EDIT: I shouldn't post when I'm sleepy...



What did you post then, actually?


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