# Sweeping Advice?



## Metalrulz (Aug 23, 2012)

Im trying to clean up my sweeping and ive noticed that my sweeping has a little excessive "pick scraping" noise. Any Tips on how to minimize the noise?


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## feilong29 (Aug 23, 2012)

Metalrulz said:


> Im trying to clean up my sweeping and ive noticed that my sweeping has a little excessive "pick scraping" noise. Any Tips on how to minimize the noise?



The key to good sweeps is good palm muting. Usually, the picking hand glides across the strings and promotes that 'muffled' dampened sound that allows each note to sound rather than 'ring' out. Your problem is definitely in muting the strings.


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## phrygian12 (Aug 23, 2012)

Metalrulz said:


> Im trying to clean up my sweeping and ive noticed that my sweeping has a little excessive "pick scraping" noise. Any Tips on how to minimize the noise?



Pick Scrapping? like you're sweeping sounds very staccato? either you're picking a little too hard or the angle of your pick is inward a little too much and you're literary scratching the strings, thus why you hear that scrapping sound rather than clean notes.


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## MrPepperoniNipples (Aug 23, 2012)

If you're trying to make it more legato, what I do is not use the pick when descending.
Very light on the pick on the way up, no pick on the way down. And like you have been told, palm muting is uber important with this.

Guys like Christian Muenzner do this and it's pretty hard to tell the difference between some of his tapping and his sweeping.


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## MJS (Aug 23, 2012)

Metalrulz said:


> ... my sweeping has a little excessive "pick scraping" noise ...



If it's only when sweeping, I'd guess it's not pick angle -- but maybe the angle you're moving your hand across the strings. If you're note going straight across the strings (or close to it), you could be sliding the pick along each string before moving to the next. 

If you just mean noise in general, working on muting with both hands is the way to go, as already mentioned... but the way you worded it made me think it sounds like you were doing little mini pick slides between notes.


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## D1nkum (Aug 24, 2012)

Yeh, palm muting is really important.

Then also muting with your left hand when descending.

Try practicing a lot of different shapes, your mind will get use to learning something new, and tackle each one slightly differently, and get much use to the motion as whole, rather than a few licks. I noticed mine cleaned up a lot when I learned more Maj/Min 7's, Diminished, all my Diatonic Arpeggios, etc.


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## djyngwie (Aug 25, 2012)

I'm no master sweeper, but I do use palm muting quite a bit when using the technique. Sometimes, I do find myself wondering, it is the right thing to do universally; what if I don't want a muted sound? The left hand is part of the muting too.

As for scraping, it sounds like you should experiment with the angle of your pick and how much of it is used to pick.


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## bandinaboy (Aug 25, 2012)

if you play it as slow as possible, there is a good chance you will actually see what your problem is. Did you try practicing with a metronome? hahaha


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## ArrowHead (Aug 25, 2012)

feilong29 said:


> The key to good sweeps is good palm muting.



I've always considered palm-muting sweeps a "cheat" for sloppy technique.


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## TheOddGoat (Aug 25, 2012)

Another suggestion would be, assuming you're doing one note per string kind of widdly diddly things, try using sweeping/economy picking on scale patterns you'd normally alternate pick.

It will let you do some up/down picking which I assume doesn't have your problem with smaller amounts of down/down or up/up picking when you change strings so hopefully you can correct the issue there and then apply it to one note per string things.


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## novacekn (Aug 27, 2012)

Angle of the pick I find is important for tone as well as muting the strings right I sometimes like to put a hair tie on my neck too


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## Maniacal (Aug 27, 2012)

How is muting cheating?

It is absolutely vital to mute strings you aren't playing if you want clean playing. Especially with loads of gain. 

Try not to angle your pick too much when you sweep. The flatter the pick is to the string, the cleaner the sweep will be.


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## Alex6534 (Aug 27, 2012)

^That's the problem I have, I hold my pick kind of like Paul Gilbert so it's slightly angled. I find it great for alternate picking but get some extra noise when sweeping.


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## Maniacal (Aug 27, 2012)

Yes I see. Well, that's the downside to the Gilbert way of picking. 

You get the extra bite, but for anything other than alternate picking it is quite messy. 

I guess these are your choices:
1) change how you angle your pick
2) practice going from the alternate pick position, to sweep picking position (for example; sweep up an arpeggio, alternate pick down a scale)
3) continue picking in the same fashion that you do currently and focus on cleaning up your sweep motion


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## Alex6534 (Aug 27, 2012)

I'm changing the angle when I sweep, it is slightly more difficult but doe make it sound a lot clearer. Just need to keep going with the metronome


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## edsped (Aug 27, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> I've always considered palm-muting sweeps a "cheat" for sloppy technique.


You'll usually need to palm mute the lower strings lightly to keep the notes distinct. I think pretty much everything sounds better with palm mutes thrown in so I palm mute even on 3 string sweeps.


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## ArrowHead (Aug 27, 2012)

Maniacal said:


> How is muting cheating?



Quite simple - if your technique is sloppy, and you aren't lifting your finger as you proceed to the next note, muting can be used to cover up for it and keep the notes from ringing out together.

Note - I didn't call it cheating, I said it was a cheat for BAD TECHNIQUE. 

However, I make it a point to be able to sweep with and without muting, and I would definitely disagree with you that muting is in any way needed or necessary for sweep picking.


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## ArrowHead (Aug 27, 2012)

edsped said:


> You'll usually need to palm mute the lower strings lightly to keep the notes distinct.



Again, you don't need to do this at all. As you lift your finger to go into the next note, you should be (in effect) muting that string as you lift the finger.


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## Maniacal (Aug 27, 2012)

I agree with you that it could cover up mistakes. But ultimately, muting should be used to make the playing as clean as possible.


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## SirMyghin (Aug 27, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> Again, you don't need to do this at all. As you lift your finger to go into the next note, you should be (in effect) muting that string as you lift the finger.



Unless your finger hovers longer than it needs to (and consequently cannot move) simply lifting your finger is not a sufficient mute.


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## edsped (Aug 27, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> Again, you don't need to do this at all. As you lift your finger to go into the next note, you should be (in effect) muting that string as you lift the finger.


Except left hand muting can't always cancel out certain harmonic overtones that continue to ring out. And it will still usually be too muddy, or at least too muddy for me. Sort of the same reason I rarely do fast picking stuff with high gain on the low strings without palm muting at least lightly.


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## ncfiala (Aug 27, 2012)

SirMyghin said:


> Unless your finger hovers longer than it needs to (and consequently cannot move) simply lifting your finger is not a sufficient mute.


 
Exactly. Just unfretting a picked note doesn't completely stop the string from vibrating (and therefore generating sound). It might seem like it does if you play unplugged, but once you plug in it's a different story.


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## Metalrulz (Aug 27, 2012)

It was the angle that my pick was hitting the strings. It was too drastic and it would "scrape" as I passed over each string causing noise. Its all good now, Thanks guys!


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## ArrowHead (Aug 27, 2012)

SirMyghin said:


> Unless your finger hovers longer than it needs to (and consequently cannot move) simply lifting your finger is not a sufficient mute.



So you're saying, all these years, I'm defying the laws of physics?


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 27, 2012)

Guys, there's muting with your palm, and then there's palm muting. One involves silencing a string with your palm, and one involves using your palm to dampen the vibration of a string, altering the color of the note.

Apples and oranges.


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## edsped (Aug 27, 2012)

I wouldn't say they're apples and oranges, especially when it's done so quickly with something like sweep picking. 

And yes, you won't be able to do clean ascending 5 string sweeps without using some kind of right hand muting.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 27, 2012)

It's the difference between muting the string _after_ it's played and muting it _while_ it's played, and that is absolutely apples and oranges.

Tonal versatility is the hallmark of a good guitar player, and the goal should be to be able to sweep cleanly and accurately with both styles of muting.


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## phrygian12 (Aug 27, 2012)

edsped said:


> I wouldn't say they're apples and oranges, especially when it's done so quickly with something like sweep picking.
> 
> And yes, you won't be able to do clean ascending 5 string sweeps without using some kind of right hand muting.




Probably understand it better if you looked at it as "dead noting" the strings, just as you would when you hold down a certain chord and want to mute whatever string you don't want to hear, same concept just with your right hands Thenar/palm or whatever you wanna call it. 

Not the same as palm muting at all, you're not damping the notes you're simply dead noting the strings so they won't ring out as you shift to a higher set of strings etc.


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## edsped (Aug 27, 2012)

No, I understand that they're different, my point is that if you're sweep picking 16th triplets at 180 then the difference in execution will be minimal because of how brief the notes are and how quick and similar the motions are. 

I was using palm muting and right hand muting interchangeably earlier in the topic but I recognize that they aren't the same thing and I'm very well versed in both techniques. Arrowhead was later saying that careful left hand muting is all you would ever need to do clean sweeps and that's not true.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 27, 2012)

I wouldn't call the difference minimal at all, but to each their own. And although left hand muting on its own certainly isn't enough to facilitate clean sweeping, your right hand should really be doing all it needs to out of pure muscle memory; sweeping doesn't require any _extra_ muting from your right hand.


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## edsped (Aug 28, 2012)

I disagree, I think the right hand muting technique for sweeping is definitely different and more specialized than just general right hand muting.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 28, 2012)

We probably do it differently.


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## ncfiala (Aug 28, 2012)

If you listen to Rusty talk about his sweeping, he says he mutes every string above the note he is playing at the time with his right hand palm (Rusty picks with his right hand) and every string below the note he is playing at the time with his left hand, basically be lightly barring those strings with his index finger. It's hard to do, but I guess it makes for some kickass sweeps since Rusty is probably the best sweeper I've ever seen.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 28, 2012)

ncfiala said:


> If you listen to Rusty talk about his sweeping, he says he mutes every string above the note he is playing at the time with his right hand palm (Rusty picks with his right hand) and every string below the note he is playing at the time with his left hand, basically be lightly barring those strings with his index finger. It's hard to do, but I guess it makes for some kickass sweeps since Rusty is probably the best sweeper I've ever seen.



By "above," you mean lower in pitch, right? If so, that's how I do it. I was always taught to do it all with the right hand, muting the lower half with the palm and the higher half with the middle, ring, and pinky, but it seemed so much more natural to use my index finger. It's just sitting there, after all


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## ArrowHead (Aug 28, 2012)

edsped said:


> And yes,* you won't be able to* do clean ascending 5 string sweeps without using some kind of right hand muting.




But, I AM able to?


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## Maniacal (Aug 28, 2012)

Hmmmmmmmm


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## ArrowHead (Aug 28, 2012)

Also, partway through this thread I've started getting really confused. "right hand" "left hand" - I'm a lefty. I always try to say "picking hand" and "fretting hand" so as not to confuse people.

In that case, YES, there is some amount of fret hand muting going on when I sweep. But as it was mentioned, it's not intentional, it's a byproduct of the finger movement required to play the pattern.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 28, 2012)




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## Tyler (Aug 28, 2012)

Stay relaxed especially in your picking hand and start slowly so the muscle memory in the fretting hand can get used to moving quickly


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## ArrowHead (Aug 28, 2012)

Narrillnezzurh said:


>



Great contribution. Really, great contribution.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 28, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> Great contribution. Really, great contribution.



Because you're a lefty, you and edsped have been arguing the same thing the whole time, hence the facepalm.

Relax.


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## TheOddGoat (Aug 28, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> Quite simple - if your technique is sloppy, and you aren't lifting your finger as you proceed to the next note, muting can be used to cover up for it and keep the notes from ringing out together.
> 
> Note - I didn't call it cheating, I said it was a cheat for BAD TECHNIQUE.
> 
> However, I make it a point to be able to sweep with and without muting, and I would definitely disagree with you that muting is in any way needed or necessary for sweep picking.




Dude...

Sympathetic resonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Edit:

Rofl, read the rest of the thread...


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## ArrowHead (Aug 28, 2012)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> Because you're a lefty, you and edsped have been arguing the same thing the whole time, hence the facepalm.
> 
> Relax.



Not at all, you've completely misread. I again submit - muting with EITHER hand is not necessary to sweep.

Must I go dig up my camera and post a video, or is 25 years of playing enough to submit _my opinion on how _*I*_ do things._


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 28, 2012)

And what do you define as "muting," exactly?


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## Maniacal (Aug 28, 2012)

Please post a video.


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## ArrowHead (Aug 28, 2012)

Maniacal said:


> Please post a video.



For now you can peruse any video on my youtube link or my bandcamp and soundcloud pages. Honestly, I'd love to post a video but it will be a long while. Gotta find the camera, charge it, and I currently have no editing/video software installed.

I don't do a lot of sweeping, but I'm sure you'll see what I mean in even the slower arpeggios I tend to use a lot in the material I have up right now.


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## ArrowHead (Aug 28, 2012)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> And what do you define as "muting," exactly?



Well - when I ENTERED this thread clearly the implication was pick hand palm muting. 

listen man, to keep it respectful just take my advice or not. I'm really not looking to get into a semantics debate with you. What works for me works for me, and has for a damned long time.

If you don't like it... don't do it.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 29, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> Well - when I ENTERED this thread clearly the implication was pick hand palm muting.
> 
> listen man, to keep it respectful just take my advice or not. I'm really not looking to get into a semantics debate with you. What works for me works for me, and has for a damned long time.
> 
> If you don't like it... don't do it.



And I pointed out that implication in my first post.

Frankly, I don't care how you sweep pick, and I'm not sure why you think any of my posts in this thread imply that I do. My only purpose here was to clarify the argument, and given the fact that the argument is between a righty and a lefty who like referring to their hands by direction rather than function, and who like to use the term "palm muting" to refer to something other than palm muting, I don't think that clarification was in any way out of line.

I don't mean to go on and on, but seriously, I'm just trying to make sure things aren't overly ambiguous


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## ArrowHead (Aug 29, 2012)

^ sorry if my posts came across as short tempered or argumentative. Frustration over other matters was creeping into my posts, I fear.

My initial point in the thread is that pick hand muting is something I've always considered "cheating" to cover up sloppy fret hand technique - both excess ringing and fudging the actual notes (aka - Kurt Hammett's little sweep in "one").

However, as you introduced the idea of fret hand muting, I also point out that I do not do any sort of conscious muting with my fret hand either. Simpy transitioning from one finger/string to the next creates a natural mute simply because you're lifting one finger as you sound a note with the next. 

If you're barring your first finger, or trying to go faster than your fingers can, YES! You'll get excess ringing and need to introduce mutes.


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## Maniacal (Aug 29, 2012)

So when you sweep, your picking hand doesn't mute the lower strings you aren't playing?


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 29, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> ^ sorry if my posts came across as short tempered or argumentative. Frustration over other matters was creeping into my posts, I fear.
> 
> My initial point in the thread is that pick hand muting is something I've always considered "cheating" to cover up sloppy fret hand technique - both excess ringing and fudging the actual notes (aka - Kurt Hammett's little sweep in "one").



No worries, man 

But just to be clear, when you say "pick hand muting," do you mean palm muting as in dampening all of the strings with your palm, or muting with your palm as in silencing the strings just that aren't being played?

I agree that dampening all of the strings is an indicator of bad technique, but I'd be wholly surprised if you could sweep cleanly without muting _any_ of the strings with your pick hand. At the very least, you'll get noise from sympathetic resonance, I would think.

But to each their own, I'm only asking out of curiosity at this point.


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## ArrowHead (Aug 29, 2012)

Maniacal said:


> So when you sweep, your picking hand doesn't mute the lower strings you aren't playing?



No. Unless I want to - because as mentioned it adds another articulation to the arsenal.

In general, I hate sweeping. I love playing arps. (similar to Devin Townsend type riffs). From practicing 3,4,5, and 6 string arps the ability to sweep was a natural by-product.

Another note - I RARELY use shapes that require a bar across two strings, which I think leads to most of the issues people in this thread suggest muting to cure.

When changing string and finger, the previous string is naturally muted as you pull off the previous finger. Nothing I ever had to consciously practice, and not really something I consider "muting" per-se. Each note is still allowed to ring out completely.


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## ArrowHead (Aug 29, 2012)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> No worries, man
> 
> But just to be clear, when you say "pick hand muting," do you mean palm muting as in dampening all of the strings with your palm, or muting with your palm as in silencing the strings just that aren't being played?



Typically it's the fingers of my fret hand that silences unused strings, not my pick hand. The string I hit rings out. The string I JUST hit is muted as I pull off my finger. The next string to be hit is muted as I move my next finger into position.


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## Semichastny (Aug 29, 2012)

i mute with my thumb, as i move the pick across the strings i drag my thumb over the previous string which allows more much quieter muting then using my entire palm.


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## Narrillnezzurh (Aug 29, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> Typically it's the fingers of my fret hand that silences unused strings, not my pick hand. The string I hit rings out. The string I JUST hit is muted as I pull off my finger. The next string to be hit is muted as I move my next finger into position.



Interesting. Usually if I'm not actively muting a string with one of my hands, it starts ringing due to sympathetic resonance, so I made it a habit to actively mute the strings I don't intend to ring. It's become second nature at this point.


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## ArrowHead (Aug 30, 2012)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> Interesting. Usually if I'm not actively muting a string with one of my hands, it starts ringing due to sympathetic resonance,



Sympathetic resonance will only apply to a similar note or one of it's overtones. It should be a rare problem, not a constant one.

Think of a trem spring ringing out every time you hit a C, but not any other tone. etc...


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## apeswithhobbies (Aug 31, 2012)

I've been following this thread with great interest. I tend to use a mix of sweeping, legato, tapping and kitchen utensils when I sweep. Actually, come to think of it, I don't know how I sweep. I just sort of play the notes and I think maybe a kind of technique has evolved from that, but I honestly couldn't tell you what it is. My fingers and pick hand just sort of do it and make the notes happen. But then, I stopped practicing "shapes" years ago. I write most of the guitar parts on the keyboard and then figure them out on the guitar, and it often requires a combination of techniques to realise those phrases.

My advice - which is worth little, I appreciate (I'm no Jason Becker) - is to practice playing the music the way you think it should sound. A lot of sweeping doesn't sound very musical to me. If you want that smooth legato phrasing, then your freeting hand needs to be doing more work and your pick hand needs to be doing some tapping 

Well, probably. Actually, don't listen to me. I talk a lot of crap.


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## ArrowHead (Sep 1, 2012)

I was out walking yesterday when a van drove by me. I immediately thought of this thread. 

Across the side of the van, in 2 foot tall letters, was the phrase:

"PROFESSIONAL SWEEPERS"


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## phrygian12 (Sep 1, 2012)

ArrowHead said:


> I was out walking yesterday when a van drove by me. I immediately thought of this thread.
> 
> Across the side of the van, in 2 foot tall letters, was the phrase:
> 
> "PROFESSIONAL SWEEPERS"




Was Frank Gambale, driving the van with Josh Middleton in the back?


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## gandalf (Sep 8, 2012)

It sounds a little like the sounds produced by using a thick pick(like 2mm) and with added distortion. In general sweep picking is a veru percussive sounding technique. If you have not already, try experimenting with legato arpeggios like or more legtao added like this: Secret Arpeggios - YouTube


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## theleem (Sep 17, 2012)

Narrillnezzurh said:


> Guys, there's muting with your palm, and then there's palm muting. One involves silencing a string with your palm, and one involves using your palm to dampen the vibration of a string, altering the color of the note.
> 
> Apples and oranges.



This. Doing a right hand mute, not palm muting, isn't cheating in any way in my opinion. In fact just about everyone I know who uses palm muting suggests this technique


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## Lives Once Abstract (Sep 18, 2012)

apeswithhobbies said:


> I've been following this thread with great interest. I tend to use a mix of sweeping, legato, tapping and kitchen utensils when I sweep. Actually, come to think of it, I don't know how I sweep. I just sort of play the notes and I think maybe a kind of technique has evolved from that, but I honestly couldn't tell you what it is. My fingers and pick hand just sort of do it and make the notes happen. But then, I stopped practicing "shapes" years ago. I write most of the guitar parts on the keyboard and then figure them out on the guitar, and it often requires a combination of techniques to realise those phrases.
> 
> My advice - which is worth little, I appreciate (I'm no Jason Becker) - is to practice playing the music the way you think it should sound. A lot of sweeping doesn't sound very musical to me. If you want that smooth legato phrasing, then your freeting hand needs to be doing more work and your pick hand needs to be doing some tapping
> 
> Well, probably. Actually, don't listen to me. I talk a lot of crap.


 
I used to worship sweeping. now i dont really ever play any full arpegios where im actually sweeping. I will more or less double tap sweep? i guess you could call it.

i got bored with normal sweeping. to me its a waste of time  and i got tired of the excess noise that i got with out using a mute or fretwrap. so i just started taping all those arpegios and now its rare that i do that :/
plus tapping sounds so much more clear if you have the strength and rhythm to do it.


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## AfterTheBurial8 (Sep 18, 2012)

I would suggest using a thinner pick and I've always angled the pick in the direction that I am sweeping in. Instead of having the pick pushing through the strings completely upright, angle it forwards or backwards depending on whether you're ascending or descending.

I've seen a lot of 'pro players' suggesting this and say they put it into their technique. 

I've also been removing a lot of picking from the patterns and throwing in various tapped notes. Gives it a much cleaner legato sound, however it's not sweep picking, just legato arpeggios.

Also, practice, practice, practice!


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## Maniacal (Sep 18, 2012)

More sweeping advice: Don't practice it very much. 

Too limiting.


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## gandalf (Oct 5, 2012)

Sweep picking is a pretty percussive sounding technique as opposed to legato techniques(hammer and pull) but try the picks called stubby(the small ones) the are designed so they easily grace over the strings or you can try a very thin pick to clean up the sound


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