# Diminished Scale - songs?



## maliciousteve (Jun 7, 2010)

I've taken an interest in incorporating the diminished scale into my playing a bit more to get more ideas in creating tension when writing songs. Now I know what the diminished scale is but I've never really learnt how to use it properly, I've stuck with the minor scale and its variants for too long.

Which songs/solos should I listen to/learn to get the best idea of how it's used?


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Jun 7, 2010)

I don't know of any really good songs for the scale (outside of Stravinsky), but I use it in a couple of ways:

Over a diminished chord
Over a dominant chord (use h/w)
As its own separate tonality

You can probably guess at how the first two work out, so I'll focus more on the third: the octatonic scale is a rich source of harmonies, and has the beauty of being completely symmetrical. Let's take E h/w diminished, E F G Ab Bb B C# D.

Using those notes, you can build these tertian harmonies:

E - E, Em, Edim, E(b5), E6, Em6, and your sevenths are 7 and °7. Ninths are b9 or #9, but you can easily get away with 9 without it sounding out. Elevenths are #11, but you can probably do 11 without much fuss. Thirteenths are 13, but you can probably get away with b13.

F - F°7

And the pattern repeats at G, and so on. So, as you can see, you have a lot of harmonies based on one note, whereas your choices are considerably limited if you stick to diatonic major or minor (though you can really do anything you want). One thing I do a lot is take a sonority and move it around by thirds - something like Em Gm Bbm Dbm Em. It thoroughly establishes a symmetrical octatonic feeling and gets that mediant sound in there. I use this idea in a solo that I wrote that arpeggiates ø7 chords moving around by minor thirds like that (then resolves one of the chords as an augmented sixth chord to modulate down a minor second ). I guess my entire thinking is that the octatonic scale is like a chord that contains other chords. You can pretty much get anywhere, using the scale as a modulatory device, seeing as you have pretty much any chord at your disposal (6 chords substitute for Maj7). I liked reading this site:

Octatonic Scales


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## TheShreddinHand (Jun 7, 2010)

maliciousteve said:


> I've taken an interest in incorporating the diminished scale into my playing a bit more to get more ideas in creating tension when writing songs. Now I know what the diminished scale is but I've never really learnt how to use it properly, I've stuck with the minor scale and its variants for too long.
> 
> Which songs/solos should I listen to/learn to get the best idea of how it's used?


 
A lot of Nevermore stuff and way back I learned a lot of riffs off of Cannibal Corpse's album The Bleeding and they use a lot of diminished stuff in their riffs on this album.

-Eric


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## Opeth666 (Jun 7, 2010)

almost ever Jeff Loomis solo he's ever created...


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## Warchest1 (Jun 9, 2010)

Opeth666 said:


> almost ever Jeff Loomis solo he's ever created...


 
River Dragon Has Come would be a good example. Also good for developing good economy picking, I'd check that out.


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## TheShreddinHand (Jun 9, 2010)

As far as Loomis/Nevermore riffing goes, I recently learned Enemies of Reality and the main riff that kicks in and the chorus are based off of diminished as well.

-Eric


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## Xiphos68 (Jun 9, 2010)

Jato Unit?


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## mrhankey87 (Jun 9, 2010)




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## maliciousteve (Jun 10, 2010)

I've got the Necrophagist tab book so I'll look through that later. 

Will have to look at The River Dragon Has Come, always liked that solo. My economy picking is at a good standard though there's always room for improvement.


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