# Return to Forever - Gambale v. Di Meola



## ArtDecade (Aug 18, 2011)

... it looks like Gambale has been on tour with RTF. I already missed the local date! Boo. That said, has anyone seen this tour? I'm curious how the band sounds with a new guitarist.


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## SnowfaLL (Aug 19, 2011)

Gambale's been playing with Chick for awhile, so its not totally new


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## ArtDecade (Aug 19, 2011)

True, but I am more interested in his playing with RTF. As far as I know, this is a first for Gambale. I read quite a few arguments on forums between Gambale and Al over picking technique, so I was curious how well Gambale's sound and playing are fitting in with RTF in particular.


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## kung_fu (Aug 19, 2011)

Let me start by saying that i'm a huge fan of both musicians. I actually think that the addition of Gambale (and Jean Luc Ponty ) was much better than sticking with the old "classic" lineup. I didn't get the chance to see them play when they toured with DiMeola, but i own the Montreux DVD and have seen loads of other clips from the tour. I did manage to see them with Gambale (in Toronto) and let me say I was blown away. I think they were great with Al as well, but to me it seemed to be more nostalgia than anything, whereas this time around with the addition of two new musicians there seemed to be a greater sense of adventure. I also like the way the sets they play on this tour are constructed, it has more focus on playing tunes as opposed to the last tour where they play tunes, then everyone gets some solo time which i feel kind of killed the momentum/excitement mid set.


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## kung_fu (Aug 19, 2011)

ArtDecade said:


> True, but I am more interested in his playing with RTF. As far as I know, this is a first for Gambale. I read quite a few arguments on forums between Gambale and Al over picking technique, so I was curious how well Gambale's sound and playing are fitting in with RTF in particular.



Oh god, that picking debate . It always seems to come down to blind fanboyism on either side; Pro alternate picking for DiMeola fanboys, pro sweeping for Gambale. I use both myself, actually so does Frank so i'm not sure why he always seems to be demonized as some sort of anti-alternate picker or something . Critics of sweeping point to Frank relying on certain sweep sequences when he's in an improvisational rut, and critics of DiMeola point to his fast single-stringed alternate picking licks he busts out in the same scenarios.

Picking technique aside, both of these musicians pretty much grew up with Chick's music and are great at playing it. That being said, as far as improvised solos over RTF music, i'd say Frank has Al beat here. I heard a lot of new licks and ideas in franks solos, whereas Al tended to stick in his comfort zone (perhaps on purpose, not sure). The thing with Al is, while he's a great electric player, he's always been much better on acoustic IMO whereas Frank seems much more comfortable on an electric and in an electric setting.


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## ArtDecade (Aug 19, 2011)

kung_fu said:


> I heard a lot of new licks and ideas in franks solos, whereas Al tended to stick in his comfort zone (perhaps on purpose, not sure). The thing with Al is, while he's a great electric player, he's always been much better on acoustic IMO whereas Frank seems much more comfortable on an electric and in an electric setting.



That is what I was hoping to hear... I really like Gambale's approach and I hope that RTF will do a new recording (or at least a Live DVD). Even though he does play with Chick on a lot of recordings, Gambale doesn't have as much input on the writing as he would in a full band situation. Fingers crossed.

In regards to the picking argument, they both have me beat so they can do whatever the hell they want!


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## SirMyghin (Aug 19, 2011)

I can solve the picking debate better than Kung Fu. Both of those players could outpick the living crap out of anyone here, or anyone debating the merits of their chosen style


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## SnowfaLL (Aug 19, 2011)

well the thing about "strict alternate" vs "economy" is that strict alternate is basically tailor made to focus on consistent 4/4 (or any even note rhythm) and in-the-box patterns (Gilbert, Petrucci style fast runs), as thats where you benefit from the rhythmic structuring of your picking patterns; where economy can add a LOT more flavor and jazziness to scales by being more sparradic and unique to the player.

(of course the player makes the creativeness of their lines, but all things being equal, this is true.)

Therefor; for a band like RTF or Chick's work, I personally believe economy picking is ideal. Of course its stupid to talk about picking style when talking about musicians.. but in this one case, I find they somewhat do reflect the players; Gambale is pretty unique and creative where as Di Meola I find is more conventional in his improvising, but maybe thats just my opinion.


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## SirMyghin (Aug 19, 2011)

I would argue strongly that phrasing is in no means a given based on picking style. I for example can do straight alternate picking, but also off tempo alternate picking (that is to say I do not count with my pick). Define 'jazziness' while you are at it, sounds a bit like a rockism


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## SnowfaLL (Aug 20, 2011)

I meant simply that economy picking is going to have more syncopation and off-beat-edness solely from the technical standpoint, as strict alternate picking is DESIGNED to fit in 4/4 even beat rhythms, where Economy is made to fit the odd-note runs more with a less robotic pick stroke. 

Sure, phrasing can't be defined solely by picking technique as I said its definitely the player who makes it work however they want, but on the completely basic discussion on the strengths and benefits of economy vs alternate, that is the reality/"goal" of each.. You don't play with economy picking if you want to play Gilbert/Petrucci solos, just as its unlikely you'll play with strict alternate if you want to learn Frank Gambale solos. (of course you CAN, but for the styles one is clearly more effective than the other)


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## ShadyDavey (Aug 20, 2011)

Guthrie always claims that Alternate picking is easier to accent and maintain a rhythmic feel through a line......a lot of the economy/sweep exponents assert that you can neatly avoid the typical scalar feel with Economy and that you lose nothing in accents/rhythm......

Each has it's place and quite honestly each does have it's own benefits so it's incredibly difficult for me to decide if either is inherently "better" than the other - in order to solve this dilemma I suck at both


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