# Sigh... new computer time (need sage advice).



## Variant (Sep 23, 2008)

Alright, I'm going to preface this with the statement that I hate computers (for the very same reason that I hate cars: The cost, unreliability, and general hassle and inconvenience of the things), but I love being able to design, write, record music, and have access to the internet... so yeah necessary evil.  Anyway, if you read my thread from a ways back, the motherboard went in my very pricey laptop, a Dell XPS M2010, and after much of the aforementioned hassle (mostly with Dell's nightmarishly bad customer service ) I've decided to scrap the idea of repairing it. A honest-to-goodness new, factory warrantied replacement motherboard will cost me upwards of $1,060.00, and since the system is moving towards three years old now it's likely that some of the other components are going to go south on me... and as one wise computer duder here in my apartment complex put it, I'd be on the road of throwing good money after bad. 

So, what the fuck are you going on about Ryan? Well, it's new system time and I thought I'd get some advice from some of the computer savvy on here if some of you would so kindly oblige. Now first off, I'm not a gamer... I don't need gamer speed or hardware. What I am is a designer (use of AutoCAD, Rhino 3D, and Photoshop), and a musician (home recording) and I need something that will facilitate that. I'm on the fence right now of weather to build or go prebuilt, but TBH, cost is at the top of the list, as is having a real warranty on my stuff. Like I said before, I don't like hassling with this shit, so yeah I'm leaning away from building a system due to 90-warranty on this, 6 month warranty on that, etc. whereas I can get an HP or wherever with a two year warranty on everything. So anyone got any suggestions? I checked Best Buy tonight and they've got some pretty okay systems for what I'd be looking to spend, though the guy there wasn't sure on me swapping up on a 30" cinema display with there package deals. I really want a fuge screen over anything else. Help a craka out!


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## CentaurPorn (Sep 23, 2008)

I have always built my systems and working in IT I guess it would look bad on me if I did not.

That being said you can not go wrong with building your own. You get exactly what you want. Hit me up on GTalk and we can discuss further and I could even price up a system for you. If you need any help with the actual build you know how to get ahold of me and I don't mind helping out at all.

Lots of great companies out there to deal with. I buy everything from NCIX. For vendors I lean towards major companies like EVGA, OCZ, Antec, and Crucial for the warranty etc. EVGA have been great to deal with as I had a ram controller go on a board. They cross shipped me a new one to Canada no questions asked. It was DOA (uncommon) and they sent another the day I opened it.


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## darren (Sep 23, 2008)

Variant said:


> Alright, I'm going to preface this with the statement that I hate computers (for the very same reason that I hate cars: The cost, unreliability, and general hassle and inconvenience of the things), but I love being able to design, write, record music, and have access to the internet...



If you hate computers, my advice would be this:

Get an iMac, get a three-year Apple extended warranty, and install Windows XP on a separate partition using BootCamp. 

You get rock-solid, very capable hardware with one warranty from one manufacturer, you don't lose the ability to run the hardcore CAD and 3D apps you need on the Windows side, and you can do all your creative stuff and day-to-day work on the Mac side.


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## Variant (Sep 23, 2008)

darren said:


> Get an iMac, get a three-year Apple extended warranty...



Between the limited options and Vista almost certainly being crafted by the ghost of Hitler as revenge, I'm *sooooooo...* temped. 

But, god, how I hate Mac's interface and lack of understanding that the PC's are PC's and not Windows. If Macs were cars, they'd all take only diesel fuel and say and blame it on the prevalence of Bosch ECU's.  Grow up, stop attacking Windows (we all hate them, we all agree they suck) and make it so I don't have to do some convoluted dual-boot setup to run my existing software, because I'll be damned to repurchase it all to be compatible with your system, Mr. Jobs.  Finally, make them look like something other than homosexual toasters dressed for a rave... only, then, will I go Mac.


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## CentaurPorn (Sep 23, 2008)

Mac = not getting much for your $$
look at the specs to price on a mac.
Price up building your own pc

You will be very surprised.

If money is no object by all means ignore me.


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## darren (Sep 23, 2008)

CentaurPorn said:


> Mac = not getting much for your $$
> look at the specs to price on a mac.
> Price up building your own pc
> 
> ...



This argument also assumes that your time is worth nothing. If you enjoy tinkering under the hood and treat the ongoing maintenance and upkeep of your computer as a hobby, then i guess it's worth it. 

But i prefer to spend my time doing stuff _with_ my computer, not doing stuff _to_ my computer just to keep it running.

Boot Camp is great. I know a guy who actually uses a MacBook Pro in Windows mode 90% of the time. Works beautifully. You can also run Windows and Mac OS X side-by-side using VMware Fusion, which is pretty cool, and nearly native speed.


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## ibznorange (Sep 23, 2008)

Var, part of the macs stability comes from these limitations. BECAUSE everything is stuck in certain patterns, they dont have to try to account for everything, and can focus on making things even more stable in that situation, instead of usably stable in many situations


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## Variant (Sep 24, 2008)

darren said:


> This argument also assumes that your time is worth nothing. If you enjoy tinkering under the hood and treat the ongoing maintenance and upkeep of your computer as a hobby, then i guess it's worth it.
> 
> But i prefer to spend my time doing stuff _with_ my computer, not doing stuff _to_ my computer just to keep it running.
> 
> Boot Camp is great. I know a guy who actually uses a MacBook Pro in Windows mode 90&#37; of the time. Works beautifully. You can also run Windows and Mac OS X side-by-side using VMware Fusion, which is pretty cool, and nearly native speed.



That's where the warranty and service issue comes into play, someone like Best Buy will simply swap you out if something goes wrong. I don't really want to troubleshoot anything... Right now, I'm looking at this beastie: an *HP TouchSmart IQ816t*. 







Basically a 'portable' all-in-one like my M2010, but without a battery (I literally never used the one in my Dell so no beef there), and a full 25" display (high def & touchscreen to boot). I could still take it to the coffee shop, and have a usable home machine as well.  Not quite the 30" display, but TBH, the prices on those things are nuts, almost the price of the system just for the monitor.


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## ibznorange (Sep 24, 2008)

actually, best buy isnt going to be offering the extended warantees anymore, says inside my inside source at bestbuy


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## cadenhead (Sep 24, 2008)

You sir, need to have a nice chat with Josh. 

Maybe this Saturday over drinks and noise making at my place? 

I'm on the fence about building me a new system myself, or swapping one of Josh's overpowered beasts for my curent box and some cash.


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## Naren (Sep 24, 2008)

Variant said:


> Between the limited options and Vista almost certainly being crafted by the ghost of Hitler as revenge, I'm *sooooooo...* temped.



 I can tell that you really don't know anything about computers.



darren said:


> This argument also assumes that your time is worth nothing. If you enjoy tinkering under the hood and treat the ongoing maintenance and upkeep of your computer as a hobby, then i guess it's worth it.
> 
> But i prefer to spend my time doing stuff _with_ my computer, not doing stuff _to_ my computer just to keep it running.
> 
> Boot Camp is great. I know a guy who actually uses a MacBook Pro in Windows mode 90&#37; of the time. Works beautifully. You can also run Windows and Mac OS X side-by-side using VMware Fusion, which is pretty cool, and nearly native speed.



That's assuming you have to spend a lot of time on maintenance.

I have spent over 15 years on computers and have spent very very very very little time on "maintenance." Almost all of that time, just because I wanted to upgrade my computer (with more RAM, a new CPU, a DVD-ROM drive when they first came out, and so on).

Perhaps if you don't know what you're doing, you might need to spend time on maintenance (for damages you've caused yourself), but in my experience, I've spent practically no time on maintenance (and I've owned 1 Mac and used to work on Macs).


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## Variant (Sep 24, 2008)

Naren said:


> I can tell that you really don't know anything about computers.



Nowadays, that's mostly true. I used to keep up on everything, build my own systems piece-meal, assist friends and family with upgrades, etc... but came a point where the entry level machines had more power than I'd ever need, even for CADing, rendering, keeping Photoshop sufficiently quick, etc. and there really wasn't concern for all the sordid details anymore... until shit started getting slower and slower, despite increases in RAM, possessor speed, etc. OS's are dogs, and Vista the worst of them I've experienced... I know for a fact I'm not alone in that opinion.


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## El Caco (Sep 24, 2008)

Man I am sick of ignorant people using the "macs are overpriced" line, it's been years since that stopped being true but for those that do not understand value you no longer have to run OS X on a mac.

http://www.efixusa.net/

There you go now OS X is the best value OS period. Run OS X legally with no hacks on your cheap home built PC


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## Variant (Sep 24, 2008)

s7eve said:


> Man I am sick of ignorant people using the "macs are overpriced" line, it's been years since that stopped being true but for those that do not understand value you no longer have to run OS X on a mac.
> 
> http://www.efixusa.net/
> 
> There you go now OS X is the best value OS period. Run OS X legally with no hacks on your cheap home built PC



Um... looking and options for the money, the HP owns the Mac... honestly, I need a system with a bad ass display, suitably quick (which they all are, systems five years ago could run my shit without issue), that I can load my *existing* software on and use... without *any* trouble. I'm not going to shell out more money for OS X when the system comes with Vista, or vice-versa if I get a iMac. I'm not even going to downgrade Vista to XP because I don't want to deal with potential conflicts with the newer hardware, and an unsupported OS. Like most people, I'm looking for a turnkey solution.


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## El Caco (Sep 24, 2008)

That's a matter of opinion that I don't agree with. Also I was not responding to you with my post above 


http://www.displayblog.com/2008/09/16/hp-touchsmart-iq816-255-touch-all-in-one-pc/ said:



> Apple&#8217;s iMac is getting some serious competition from HP. HP&#8217;s TouchSmart IQ816 is the company&#8217;s latest all-in-one PC and one huge differentiating factor has been its touch capability. Now add size as an additional advantage. The IQ816 is 25.5&#8243;, 1.5&#8243; more than the largest iMac (24&#8243;). The external design looks quite nice and it seems to be a bit thinner to boot. The pixel format of the 25.5&#8243; TFT LCD is 1920 x 1200 and is powered by NVIDIA&#8217;s GeForce 9600M GS. The 9600M GS is probably going to whip the 8800 GS that&#8217;s in the fastest 24&#8243; iMac. But the big daddy iMac hits back, hard, with its more powerful 3.06GHz Intel Core 2 Duo. The IQ816 counters with its Blu-ray drive, TV tuner, backlit keyboard and a price that undercuts the fastest 24&#8243; iMac by $100. The iMac is shaking but is still standing. But fight isn&#8217;t over. Although HP has done a fantastic job of hiding the hideousness of Windows Vista with a very sexy UI, Apple hits back with an OS that is simply much MUCH better. Down goes the IQ816. Game over. For now.



So yeah which is better value is a matter of opinion and comes back to your needs however some things to consider would be 

Apple will most likely include Blue-ray shortly
Apple will most likely never include a TV tuner but there are excellent options available
Touch screen macs are ridiculously expensive ATM but rumour has it that Apple will be releasing their own shortly


It comes down to what you need or want but considering that you can get a 24" imac from Apple up to $800 cheaper then the HP saying the HP is better value or that Macs are expensive is not accurate based on that HP model.


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## D-EJ915 (Sep 24, 2008)

Apple is retarded in that they tout their computers as being intuitive and user friendly and then give you a mouse and keyboard from ergonomic nightmares


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## Variant (Sep 25, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> Apple is retarded in that they tout their computers as being intuitive and user friendly and then give you a mouse and keyboard from ergonomic nightmares



Well, I'll give s7eve a bit of credit here, as a lot of these high end systems are all over the place so far as options go, and thus are apples-and-oranges situations. The HP is just a lot closer to what I need right now, though that may not be true in all cases. 

Though, I will agree with D-EJ915 to some extent here as well... while shopping the systems out I saw that the iMac was tied to it's (one button, still ) mouse and keyboard with a *cord*. Seriously, WTF?


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## El Caco (Sep 25, 2008)

The best part is when you go to sell your mac you keyboard and mouse are still in unused condition


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## El Caco (Sep 25, 2008)

I tell you what, three weeks just cant go quick enough. The rumour mill is going crazy.

http://www.appletell.com/apple/tag/mac&#37;20brick/











and this next one is real, it is a modded mac mini






Here's hoping Apple make the Macbook touch and the Mac Pro mini.


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## darren (Sep 25, 2008)

Apple's current mouse offering only _looks like_ a single-button mouse.

http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/

I've got the wireless version and it's not bad. The thing i hate about all wireless keyboards and mice is they eat batteries like mad. After a couple of sets of lithium AAs (at about $12-15 a pop) i went to rechargeables, but they only last a couple of weeks in my mouse.


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## Scali (Sep 25, 2008)

Well, the advice I can give is to concentrate your budget on CPU power, memory, a decent audio interface and a fast harddisk.

PhotoShop doesn't require a fancy videocard at all, CAD might, but only when using large and complex models. For most stuff even an integrated graphics processor would suffice. The advantages are that you can save money on your PSU and cooling aswell, and get a more silent machine.

I'd go for at least 4 GB of memory, and preferably a Core2 Quad processor (for more VST capacity). Then either integrated graphics or a mid-end videocard (depending on how heavy your CAD work is).


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## loktide (Sep 25, 2008)

as a converted apple user, i strongly advice you to get an iMac. You'll thank me later...

i'm no apple snob or anything. i used to build my PCs up from scratch from single components, and also mod/overclock them to get the best performance. i also know how to get XP working properly. it was just such an unbeliavable relief not having to do all that pain in the ass windows maintenance when i got my first mac. no fucking antivirus, firewall and constant stupid updating and removing spyware. 

OS X is stable, it won't crash after MONTHS of not restarting (just use sleep mode since it consumes less than 2W), and you won't have stupid driver issues or programs that try to manipulate your registry. 
plus, with bootcamp you can still use windows software that's unavailable for mac (actually, i can't think of anything rather than some scientific programs i rarely need).


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## loktide (Sep 25, 2008)

D-EJ915 said:


> Apple is retarded in that they tout their computers as being intuitive and user friendly and then give you a mouse and keyboard from ergonomic nightmares





you could still use ANY usb keyboard and mouse, though


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## rahul_mukerji (Sep 25, 2008)

If you're not interested in building anything from scratch:

Go the best buy/circuit city/local comp shop and look for a decent quad core machine. Then buy a couple of upgrades from new-egg or smiliar place (hard drive + ram + graphics card) and install those. That's just a little tinkering and there's not soldering / fixings reqd for the job.

For a person doing CAD and photoshop and Audio rec, I suggest XP. I installed the SP2 version and never upgraded it with any patches / updates. I keep disc from the net. A plain vanilla xp install with sonar, sony, ableton, fruity loops, Adobe CS2 works really well. 

I haven't had any issues with mine. No hardware troubles and no software "nightmares". Actually, I've had no issues with Vista either, nor Macs. I wasnt too happy with the Ubuntu Studio thingy tho .....

Vista did require some updates and hardware drivers. XP worked flawlessly. So for someone who hates tinkering / troubleshooting: I strongly advice XP. Oh and the 32 bit XP version, wont detect a full 4GB ram .... but you probably already know that.


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## Scali (Sep 25, 2008)

Oh, important thing...
Get a motherboard with Intel chipset if you go for a Core2 system. They tend to be the most compatible, reliable etc. I had quite some nightmares with a VIA chipset back in the day... Sound recording would always have some clicks here and there because the PCI bus didn't work properly. The latency also had to be set pretty high, compared to what the soundcard was actually capable of in a decent computer.


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## D-EJ915 (Sep 25, 2008)

loktide said:


> you could still use ANY usb keyboard and mouse, though


the nice thing about the mini is that it doesn't come with them


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## Xaios (Sep 25, 2008)

I guess I'll chime in like everyone else.

I'm personally a proponant of PC's. I used to work on a Mac, and it was a cranky piece of shit. Stability my foot. My PC, on the other hand, is 4 years old now, and still runs as well as the day it was new. I've defragged the hard drive twice since I bought it, I've NEVER nuked and paved, and I do next to no maintenance. It isn't a Crysis-running beast, but it can play all but the most cutting edge games with a decent amount of detail. It has never given me ANY grief.

Oh, did I mention that it's a Dell? A custom built one that cost me a pretty penny back in the day, but still a Dell.


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