# My tendonitis issue...



## jaredowty (Dec 21, 2006)

I've seem to hit a dead end in my guitar playing. No, I haven't ran out of things to play (FAR from it), I'm not frustrated from learning theory, I'm not sick of playing guitar or music in general in any way possible. It's my fucking wrists/hands...they've been bugging me for so long but now it's to the point where I'm really pissed.

I plan to be a pro musician as a career, so as you can probably guess, this inability to even play is killing me. It started around a year and a half ago, when I noticed my hands were getting a little bit more cramped than usual. But, of course, like an ignorant dumbass I kept playing hard without warming up, for hours on end with my band and by myself. My technique also wasn't the best in the world, so that's a huge part of where I'm at now. I've taken numerous breaks throughout the last year of practicing/playing guitar, and I probably haven't practiced over 2 hours a day that whole time. I went to a specialized hand doctor and I was diagnosed with tendonitis.

So, for about 10 months, I've been taking anti-inflammatories, including a prescription (and ibuprofen whenever my script runs out). I ice my hands nearly every day, I've switched to lighter string gauges, and I've tried to lessen the amount of strength I use while fretting and picking, as well as maintaining good posture and position. I've also done a ton of research on improving my diet and on what I can do to cause the tendons less stress. Still, the problem persists. After a month of NOT playing what-so-ever, I picked up the guitar (my 6-string, since the 7-string's bigger neck probably doesn't help matters) last night after doing numerous stretches, with my hand fully loose and warm. I went through very simple, incredibly slow, and easy to play stuff (I eventually worked my way up to "Ode to Joy" at a moderate pace). I took breaks throughout, massaging and all of that good stuff. After about half an hour, my left wrist was hurting like it never had before. Fuck.

The good news is, I'll be seeing a neurologist in mid-January. After that, I'm hoping to get some cortisone shots in the appropriate areas (I heard that really helps). But, until then, there's no guitar playing....

Are there any of you with similar experiences? Any advice? Also, what should I do for my guitar playing when I'm not playing at all? Any good ways of studying theory? My life pretty much depends on my guitar playing...


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## mefrommiddleearth (Dec 21, 2006)

see a doctor immediatly if you get peristant pain in your hands and keep playing your liable to seriously injure yourself and outright fuck your abillity to play.

Ok read your post properly yeah your probably gonna need some serious work on your hands hopefully doesn't come to surgery.
damn man you can't go doing that to your hands if you want to be a pro muso your gonna have to look after them


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## NewArmyGuitar (Dec 21, 2006)

Check out www.ironmind.com. They have a lot of hand strength and hand health products.


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## jaredowty (Dec 21, 2006)

mefrommiddleearth said:


> damn man you can't go doing that to your hands if you want to be a pro muso your gonna have to look after them



Yeah, once again, I was too ignorant to know what I was doing to them (I'm only 16 now). I wish I could turn back time but now there's nothing left to do but take as good care of my hands as I can.



NewArmyGuitar said:


> Check out www.ironmind.com. They have a lot of hand strength and hand health products.



Thanks dude, I'll check it out.


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## includao (Dec 23, 2006)

To prevent these issues I do bodybuilding and i'm fully aware of my technique mechanics.


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## Durero (Dec 24, 2006)

Make sure you read Learning The Classic Guitar - Part 1 by Aaron Shearer.
He had severe & permanent damage to his hands and had to give up a classical guitar concert career, but he ended up becoming a fantastic & innovative teacher because of his research into his own injuries - a must read!

Also essential is Principles of Correct Practice for Guitar by Jamie Andreas. Both these books give detailed and effective guidance on how to increase your awareness of muscle tension and eliminate it from your technique.


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## jaredowty (Dec 25, 2006)

Durero said:


> Make sure you read Learning The Classic Guitar - Part 1 by Aaron Shearer.
> He had severe & permanent damage to his hands and had to give up a classical guitar concert career, but he ended up becoming a fantastic & innovative teacher because of his research into his own injuries - a must read!
> 
> Also essential is Principles of Correct Practice for Guitar by Jamie Andreas. Both these books give detailed and effective guidance on how to increase your awareness of muscle tension and eliminate it from your technique.



Thanks dude, I'll be picking those up with my Christmas money.


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## Drew (Dec 25, 2006)

I will write you a book on this as soon as I get back from taking a walk with the parents - I had tendon issues in the past, and researched this stuff extensively.


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## Drew (Dec 25, 2006)

Ok...

First, your case sounds way worse than mine ever was, and you'd been playign a lot less. So, let's start with non-guitar stuff - do you have wrist pain anywhere else in your life? How much time a day do you spend in front of a computer? Is there anything else you could be doing that would hurt your hands? I got into trouble partly because of the guitar, but partly because I was spending a lot of time in front of a computer using a mouse and writing papers. Worth being aware about...

Second, you know this by now, but marathon practice sessions are a bad idea. 15-minute sessions, then take a five minute break to relax your hands and stretch them out. 

Then, playing posture... You say you're paying more attention to it, but just how good is it? Honestly, at first, you want to throw looks to the wind and strap your guitar high enough so that when you're sitting, the guitar's resting comfortably, and when you stand up, the guitar doesn't go any lower. You'll look like a dork, but you'll be able to play. 

Also, what's your thumb position like? there's two primary positions, "classical" position with your thumb behind the neck, and "blues" with your thumb over the top. Honestly, while classical gives you better reach, it's also much worse for your wrist. The blues posture on the other hand doesn't let you stretch as much, but is pretty effortless for your wrist. The secret is to learn to switch between them smoothly - watch some videos of Joe Satriani playing, his technique is flawless in this respect. 

Also, believe it or not, you're better off with a thicker neck. In fact, Taylor was considering offering a "thick neck" option specifically for this reason. At the worst, while it hurt to play my Wizard-equipped Ibanez 520, I could still play my Strat without much discomfort. Again, it all comes down to wrist position - the thicker neck keeps your wrist more open, and open = relaxed. 

Then, you have the basics down - cut caffiene (dehydrant), push water, alternate between a hot pack and an ice pack, etc.

Also, I took three weeks off and still had pain when I picked the guitar up - it'll take a few months for complete recovery, but after a month you should be able to get to a position where you can do a couple minutes a day. Believe it or not, tendonitis is a great learning aid for efficient technique, ;argely because if you DID have perfectly clean technique, you wouldn't have pain. So, jack your strap up, pick up your guitar with the thickest neck, and do maybe 5 minutes of 1-2-3-4 chromatics, slowly. If your hand position hurts, adjust it until it hurts less. Continue, not worrying about building speed but just regaining motion. My technique is way healthier today than it was when I first hurt my wrists playing, simply because it was a great feedback tool - when I wasn't playing with a good, relaxed wrist position, it would hurt. It's a strong incentive to get it right.


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## jaredowty (Dec 25, 2006)

Drew said:


> Ok...
> 
> First, your case sounds way worse than mine ever was, and you'd been playign a lot less. So, let's start with non-guitar stuff - do you have wrist pain anywhere else in your life? How much time a day do you spend in front of a computer? Is there anything else you could be doing that would hurt your hands? I got into trouble partly because of the guitar, but partly because I was spending a lot of time in front of a computer using a mouse and writing papers. Worth being aware about...



I have slight pain at other parts during the day, if I stress out my hands/wrists too much (while lifting weights, writing papers at school, etc). I do spend a lot of time on the computer (which I really need to cut down) but not a lot of it is spent typing. I usually just scroll through stuff with the mouse (I'm not sure how damaging that is).



> Second, you know this by now, but marathon practice sessions are a bad idea. 15-minute sessions, then take a five minute break to relax your hands and stretch them out.



Yep, I've done pretty good with that. When I start playing again, I'm gonna work my way up to my desired practice sessions. Even then, I'll take plenty of breaks... 



> Then, playing posture... You say you're paying more attention to it, but just how good is it? Honestly, at first, you want to throw looks to the wind and strap your guitar high enough so that when you're sitting, the guitar's resting comfortably, and when you stand up, the guitar doesn't go any lower. You'll look like a dork, but you'll be able to play.



Yeah, my strap is set pretty high, probably about how Petrucci has it. 



> Also, what's your thumb position like? there's two primary positions, "classical" position with your thumb behind the neck, and "blues" with your thumb over the top. Honestly, while classical gives you better reach, it's also much worse for your wrist. The blues posture on the other hand doesn't let you stretch as much, but is pretty effortless for your wrist. The secret is to learn to switch between them smoothly - watch some videos of Joe Satriani playing, his technique is flawless in this respect.



Before I paid any attention, my thumb was kind of all over the place. But once I started focusing more, I used the classical position. I've never experimented with the blues position too much, but if it really helps I'll give it a whirl, and eventually try and switch up the two. 



> Also, believe it or not, you're better off with a thicker neck. In fact, Taylor was considering offering a "thick neck" option specifically for this reason. At the worst, while it hurt to play my Wizard-equipped Ibanez 520, I could still play my Strat without much discomfort. Again, it all comes down to wrist position - the thicker neck keeps your wrist more open, and open = relaxed.



Two of my guitars have pretty thick necks (Strat being the thickest, Peavey V-Type a little thinner, and the Agile being a tad bit thicker than an Ibanez neck and also the thinnest of the three). I'll probably string up my Strat with some 9's and use that for a while.



> Then, you have the basics down - cut caffiene (dehydrant), push water, alternate between a hot pack and an ice pack, etc.



Yeah, I've been icing my hands for at least once a day (and keeping them warm when not icing) and drinking a shit-ton of water. I don't drink any type of caffiene except for green tea, which is supposed to be a really good anti-inflammatory. Also, my diet in general has been improving, and I've been eating anti-inflammatory foods like fish, nuts, green veggies and fresh fruits.



> Also, I took three weeks off and still had pain when I picked the guitar up - it'll take a few months for complete recovery, but after a month you should be able to get to a position where you can do a couple minutes a day. Believe it or not, tendonitis is a great learning aid for efficient technique, ;argely because if you DID have perfectly clean technique, you wouldn't have pain. So, jack your strap up, pick up your guitar with the thickest neck, and do maybe 5 minutes of 1-2-3-4 chromatics, slowly. If your hand position hurts, adjust it until it hurts less. Continue, not worrying about building speed but just regaining motion. My technique is way healthier today than it was when I first hurt my wrists playing, simply because it was a great feedback tool - when I wasn't playing with a good, relaxed wrist position, it would hurt. It's a strong incentive to get it right.



Yeah, I'm hoping this will all turn out for the better. I'm not going to start playing again until after I see the neurologist and give my hands a chance to have a nice long rest. Thanks a lot for the advice dude, it's greatly appreciated.


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## militant_x (Dec 30, 2006)

same thing happened to me. I can still play, but not for hours on end. It has turned playing guitar into a chore. The only way I can play now is to seriously spend atleast 20 min doing wrist, arm, finger stretches and warming up. This is probably how It should have always been but its pretty damn boring. 

It was hopeless for a while but after I picked up my rg570 and got the petrucci dvd, learned his warm up things got better. I feel the thinner neck helped me out though... maybe its a hand size thing also... my hands are on the smaller side.

I try to play with a really light touch now... 

Goodluck with it. I really stand behind the petrucci dvd warm up thing along with some wrist streches I picked up in aikido.


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## distressed_romeo (Dec 30, 2006)

militant_x said:


> same thing happened to me. I can still play, but not for hours on end. It has turned playing guitar into a chore. The only way I can play now is to seriously spend atleast 20 min doing wrist, arm, finger stretches and warming up. This is probably how It should have always been but its pretty damn boring.
> 
> It was hopeless for a while but after I picked up my rg570 and got the petrucci dvd, learned his warm up things got better. I feel the thinner neck helped me out though... maybe its a hand size thing also... my hands are on the smaller side.
> 
> ...



I picked up the bulk of my warm-up routine from my brief period studying aikido as well!


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## Drew (Jan 2, 2007)

jaredowty said:


> Before I paid any attention, my thumb was kind of all over the place. But once I started focusing more, I used the classical position. I've never experimented with the blues position too much, but if it really helps I'll give it a whirl, and eventually try and switch up the two.



Ahh, my money says this is the issue. Bending in "classical" position is _hell_ on your wrists.


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## Ciprian (Feb 20, 2007)

Drew said:


> Ok...
> 
> First, your case sounds way worse than mine ever was, and you'd been playign a lot less. So, let's start with non-guitar stuff - do you have wrist pain anywhere else in your life? How much time a day do you spend in front of a computer? Is there anything else you could be doing that would hurt your hands? I got into trouble partly because of the guitar, but partly because I was spending a lot of time in front of a computer using a mouse and writing papers. Worth being aware about...
> 
> ...



Lately the tendon that is on the far right-side of the forearm (while the palm is pointing towards the face, fretting hand) has been bothering me, not much, but sometimes I feel small pains (usually, after playing a while with a wrong playing posture, without taking breaks etc.) and if I massage it, I feel it is much stiffer than the same tendon on the right hand. The last few days it has started hurting a little more. It doesn't seem to be anything serious (Yet!) but I was thinking of taking a break for about a week or so, and after I'll pick-up the guitar again (I also have to buy a new strap - my current one just broke), I want to practice in a correct manner (& spend less time in front of a computer).


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## Dive-Baum (Feb 20, 2007)

includao said:


> To prevent these issues I do bodybuilding and i'm fully aware of my technique mechanics.



 

I used to have a problem with that exact same thing when I was younger. That was before anyone ever heard of carpal tunnel...And for the record, I had 3 letters in High School...Football, Weightlifting and Swimming so let me just go ahead and tell you that strength has 2 things to do with wrist pain...Jack and shit. I was in your exact same boat, I planned on being a musician (of course who didn't in the 80's??? ) I wore wrist braces quite a bit. You may want to consider localized cortizone injections as well. While not a permanent solution, it could get you over the hump. Also be sure you keep limber, if pain permits. When you are in class do finger exercises...touch each finger tip to your thumb tip alternating. Also, see if different strap position ease the tension. Don't use the old James Hetfield method of guitar below you crotch. Having the guitar higher may look a bit dorky, but when faced with the alternative of not playing...it is a viable alternative. 

Good luck


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## Mastodon (Feb 20, 2007)

Dive-Baum said:


> I wore wrist braces quite a bit.
> 
> Good luck



I've always wondered how exactly wrist braces help.

How exactly do they help?


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## Dive-Baum (Feb 20, 2007)

Well to be honest there are 2 schools of thought on that. One is that they actually do more harm than good. While they do imobilize whatever it is you are bracing, if left on for too long it can cause some muscle atrophy (bad) along with decreased range of motion or if the brace is applied to tightly, decreased bloodflow which inhibits healing (along with other problems which are pretty obvious). The other school on this is that the joint needs to be immobilized to heal. How often do you hurt something then walk around the next day bumping or re-hurting that same body part over and over. If it is braced, it is protected. I mainly slept with mine on and then during the day went 2 hours on and two hours off in intervals. That way I think you would maximize the potentials of both schools of thought regarding bracing.


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## Mastodon (Feb 20, 2007)

Ohh, sorry I misinterpreted. You meant this kind:






I thought you meant this kind:





I read up on it some and found a company that sells a wrist band for typist and musicians.

They claim that the vibrations through your fingers into your nerves and muscles gradually harm them over time and that wearing their band (or applying any kind of pressure to the wrists) obsorbs some of that virbration.


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## OzzyC (Feb 20, 2007)

Mastodon said:


> Ohh, sorry I misinterpreted. You meant this kind:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If that's true just get a nice Dream theater or Opeth wristband


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## Dive-Baum (Feb 21, 2007)

The kind that imobilizes your entire hand. It will have a contoured metal strip going from above your wrist to your palm.


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## jaredowty (Jul 22, 2007)

Thought I'd give an update...

Things didn't really start getting better for a long time. I tried what everyone said - stretching, icing, meds. Then, I saw a psychical therapist for a while...she said to basically work out my hands on whatever downtime I had, with different types of puddy and rubber bands for curls. So, I did, thinking it would strengthen up my hands. In reality, it made things much worse. The pain persisted, and I couldn't even *think* of playing guitar. Therefore, I became used to the idea of not practicing guitar anymore, and have become lazier than I've ever been in my life....eventually, I just said fuck it to stretching, meds, icing, and working out my hands, and that I'd just play and see how far I got. And ya know what? My hands feel much better. Doesn't make much sense...all the professionals say to do the four things listed, but I stopped doing them and felt much better. I'll probably keep doing stretches - but to a much lesser extent and much lighter. I think I was overstretching a lot of the time, putting more stress on my wrists and elbow. Plus, the hand workouts just stressed out my hands way more than they needed to be. 

So now what? I just finished a show with my band yesterday, and announced it'd be our last for a while. For now, I'm going to take a week break from all things bad for my hands (including heavy computer usage, this is my last night). I'm just gonna rest them and not give them any stress. Then, I'm going to approach guitar as if I was a beginner. I'll bust out the six string nylong acoustic, and learn how to read music again and relearn all my scales and modes, as well as many new ones. I'll also go through Fretboard Logic and learn how to use my recording device with my guitar. Then, after all that's done and I've been practicing a lot more, I'll start getting into phrasing, speed, songs, and techniques again. When I feel more confident in my hands and playing, then I'll hopefully get back up to three hours a day again or even beyond that. Also, for the first time in a long time, I'll be able to just jam without worrying with anything, and let my songwriting take motion. I'll start working my way torwards professionalism again. I can't wait.


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## muffgoat (Aug 15, 2007)

Hey man i also have the all mighty tendonitis pretty badly, and i know what you mean by you did stretches and exercises and it made it worse. I found out that the best thing for it is to not do anything with them at all really, to let them relax.. but thats lame to not be able to do anything right. So i got recommended to a specialist and got a pair of custom wrist braces made to immobilize my wrists(made out of leather so it looks like i am ready to fight dragons lmao) I can now lift heavy weights and do lots of things, you just wear them when you are using your wrists alot or even if they are achy or sore. You can even try a cheap pair from london drugs or something for like 20-30$ that would still do the trick. Hope this helps!! and..... FUCK TENDONITIS!!!!


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## fatfinger (Aug 15, 2007)

I have had problems with my wrists and joints of the hands for years. Doctors were no help....I found that taking pectin, which comes in a capsule like a vitamin cures it. If I stop taking the pectin it comes right back. Now I am not saying this will work for you but you should look into trying it. Look up pectin on the net as a natural cure for arthritis and joint pain and read about it......then try it and see what happens. It worked for me and still does.


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## MetalSir (Aug 21, 2007)

a coupple of years ago i catch a deforming tendonitis (i don't know if this is the right tranlation of "tendinite deformante")..

i see a lot of doctor.. they really cannot do anything for u. only spend time and money.

finally after mounth of searching for (frequently i have so much pain to vomit) i find a doctor-musician specialized in hand helath and tendonitis for musician. he really give me the first right cure.

1. buy one of this (i mean the model, non this specific brand):






it must be reinforced with a metallic bar that goes along your forearm till the back of your hand. this bar prevent you from any torsion or bending of the hand. you have to dress this product all the day, and ESPECIALLY all the night, when you sleep.

2. ice on your hand. 3 or 4 times a day. keep the ice on till you feel the wrists numb.

3. DO NOT USE GUITAR. none. really.. i make the mistake of try to play guitar some minuts after a coupple of days of treatment. the doctor said to me that those 5 minuts of palyn'guitar extended my cure of 5 mounth. and he was right.

4. keep away from pc keyboard or mouse.. or use it by dressing the product i show you on the first point.

5. preserve yourself form termic sudden chenging.

i don't remeber anything else.. 
good luck guy..


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## muffgoat (Aug 22, 2007)

Yeah thats what the basic idea behind mine is except i went to a specialist who custom built them for me (EXPENSIVE!!), so there is a molded piece of thermo plastic that is sandwhiched between pieces of thick leather, i really gotta start wearing them when i sleep tho my wrists have been aching


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## MetalSir (Aug 22, 2007)

muffgoat said:


> Yeah thats what the basic idea behind mine is except i went to a specialist who custom built them for me (EXPENSIVE!!), so there is a molded piece of thermo plastic that is sandwhiched between pieces of thick leather, i really gotta start wearing them when i sleep tho my wrists have been aching



i purchase mine in a normal chemist shop.. not so expansive.. anallergic and resistant about 25 euro (30 dollars for you i mind)..


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## muffgoat (Aug 22, 2007)

But the benefeit of getting them done like mine is they are actually custom fit and designed for my wrist and my exact problem plus the leather will last a hell of alot longer than that stuff, and looks metal too!!  lmao, but i am sure glad that my boss paid for them as they were 300$ each....


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## ElRay (Aug 22, 2007)

Durero said:


> Make sure you read ...


Check-out: Building the Ergonomic Guitar Blog for more info too.

Ray


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## oompa (Aug 25, 2007)

just wanted to thank you guys for helping with all this info.

i've never had any troubles myself, but its a good warning and im gonna spend a few days of my vacation going over my positioning and lefthand technique to avoid this. i hope you guys get better, not being able to play the guitar is a punishment no man deserves


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## Axel (Aug 29, 2007)

I really sympathize with your situation.
I got tendonitis back in '04. I just totally overworked my wrist constantly with playing with bad technique, rock climbing, doing capoeira, going to the gym, carrying heavy books, guitar and foot stool etc around campus, and not just that but carrying it all with a bent wrist  
Eventually I felt something pull while doing a big chord stretch when playing with my band, and me like an idiot just beared through the pain to finish the song.
My wrist has never been the same since. I stopped playing roughly a year. I lost a band and fell behind in my recitals in school. It was a really rough time for me. I remember it all, the wrist guards, the medications, the physical therapy sessions, dipping my wrist in wax, having a TENs unit on it, the stretches and strength exercises....

Much like you though, I just kinda stopped doing what I was supposed to do. The routines etc
I'll take an ibuprofin before an important gig just for safety. Incidentally my knee also is having issues. I guess I just don't have strong joints  

And nowadays things aren't so bad. I also really focused on slow practice with minimal tension in both hands. I was actually complimented on my left hand during one of my recitals in '06. Playing with a wrist guard here and there also really corrected my technique as I was physically unable to bend my wrist while playing which I did for years. I also stopped playing with my guitar below waste level. Suddenly looking cool was the least of my concerns  

Anyways, like I said, things aren't like the used to be, but I'm getting by. I hope things go well for you.


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## guitarguy79 (Apr 23, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about your tendonitis, I know it can really be hard to deal with. I've struggled with tendonitis myself and have known other musicians who have as well, and what I've learned is that until you learn to hold the guitar and practice in the proper way, it will never go away. The tough part is that it can be much more difficuly to change a bad habit than to develop a good one because playing incorrectly actually feels normal to us after awhile. Also, emotionally it's very difficult because we worry that we will lose everything that we have developed up to this point and constantly feel the need to "test" our abilities which can throw us right back into those bad habits. Instead, we should be practicing EXTREMELY slowly to retrain our muscles properly. I would highly recommend the book Principles of Correct Practice for Guitar by Jamie Andreas. She talks a lot about proper form and how to practice in the most relaxed way possible. Another great book is Effortless Mastery by Kenny Warner, which deals with the spiritual side of music.

The most important part is to realize that you can heal completely but that it takes dedication and PATIENCE. If you do it right, you will have the rest of your life to practice and if not, you will have to take a break from guitar for the rest of your life. Good luck and enjoy the process!


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## stubhead (Apr 23, 2008)

Not to be chirpy  but can you sing? Can you read music? This is a great time to be learning a million songs & working on music theory. When I come across a guitar student who's serious about learning _music_, I tell them that the work they do _away_ from the guitar is _at least_ as important as the work they do with it - actually a lot more, if they want to write good pieces. If you can find a _music_ teacher (as opposed to a guitar teacher) they'll know exactly what to do with somebody who wants to be a professional - there's several lifetimes of work you can do without ever touching a guitar, you know? Beethoven was stone-cold deaf when he wrote his 9th Symphony (with a quill pen by candlelight), and he couldn't play guitar at _all._


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## Drew (Apr 23, 2008)

Holy bump.  

Jared, how about an update? How're your hands doing?


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## muffgoat (Apr 30, 2008)

Well I am not Jared but i had chirped in on this thread before as i was dealing with the same shit. I have been working at the music store for about 6 months now and my wrists feel sooo much better(used to work in a warehouse), they no longer randomly hurt or burn and i can play for along time now. I am working on my speed and am trying to get myself a practice routine together so i can actually become a good player and start writing some good tunes


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