# The HAARP Machine is Back...



## musicaldeath

Can't remember how to embed but here you go...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yJyO2xUwCw


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## abeigor

Wasn't there just a thread about sped-up performances?


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## Lorcan Ward

What the ****!!!??? 





> &#8226; Guitarist Wanted &#8226;
> To be considered perform LTP in one take



Looks like he's looking to get going again. That song is hard as hell but Kevin Heiderich would be perfect since he already did a video before.


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## erdiablo666

abeigor said:


> Wasn't there just a thread about sped-up performances?



Uhh yeah, this don't look right at all. I was happy until I saw the weird vid.


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## ArtHam

Kevin used to be in the band for a bit or at least rehearse with them but he was fired or something. They only want UK musicians now.


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## 7 Strings of Hate

erdiablo666 said:


> Uhh yeah, this don't look right at all. I was happy until I saw the weird vid.



You were happy to hear a sped up hack untill you saw him being a sped up hack?

Nothing redeeming about these guys. Dishonest .... like this gets my goat. Kids, don't buy into it.


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## ArtHam

Lorcan Ward said:


> &#8226; Guitarist Wanted &#8226;
> To be considered perform LTP in one take.



You left out the 'UK only' that's in there. Otherwise I would've seriously hoped they would get Danny Tunker. He could do it.


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## bloc

The song in the video sounds terrible. 

Pretty Strandberg though.


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## erdiablo666

7 Strings of Hate said:


> You were happy to hear a sped up hack untill you saw him being a sped up hack?
> 
> Nothing redeeming about these guys. Dishonest .... like this gets my goat. Kids, don't buy into it.



Well, I just found out about it...


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## Lorcan Ward

7 Strings of Hate said:


> You were happy to hear a sped up hack untill you saw him being a sped up hack?



Did you even watch the video? He's clearly playing. Not sure how you could possibly think thats sped up  

I know the album was recorded with a .... ton of editing just like Epitaph and nearly every tech metal album since then but the guy can really play. 



ArtHam said:


> You left out the 'UK only' that's in there. Otherwise I would've seriously hoped they would get Danny Tunker. He could do it.



Sorry must have removed that when I deleted the email address(not sure on forum rules here for that kind of thing!)


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

It doesn't look right. Everything he does looks really jittery.


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## MaxSwagger

I dug the album back in the day but man this dude's tone is straight cardboard in this vid. The guy my band records with ran sound/lights for them for as much of the tour as he could stand and ig homeboy is a real sh1t bag to work with. Dig his riffs though


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## vansinn

I'm sorry, but it sounds like George Soros just refinanced the HAARP for a reboot..


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## gunch

I enjoy the music but I'm with everyone else with being skeptical/hesitant to give Al the benefit of doubt again


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## Necropitated

ArtHam said:


> Kevin used to be in the band for a bit or at least rehearse with them but he was fired or something. They only want UK musicians now.



Yep, I was in the band, but was fired/let go or whatever you want to call it because, these are his words: "THM won't be happening soon but if/when it does I'd like to have a band in London for simplicity's sake". That was part of the e-mail I got in August 2015, after 1,5 years of complete silence.....
I'll still record that one take LTP and send it to the e-mail though, if he can't find someone.....I'll also upload it on facebook and youtube, so everyone can see it. Recording a lot of videos lately and the whole Disclosure album is still on my bucket list.


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## Electric Wizard

I don't see what's suspicious about his playing, Al Mumin is obviously a jedi now.


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## sharedEQ

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It doesn't look right. Everything he does looks really jittery.



I think what he does is has a camera with a really fast shutter speed, but less than 45fps. You dont see the normal blur and because of the lower fps you dont see everything. Beyond a certain speed, things start to look jumpy.

You sometimes see this effect when watching sports events from ten years ago.

Hes playing all the haters! Smart enough to give something controversial, get people talking.

Looks legit to me. Sounds interesting too, wish the video had higher audio quality.


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## Jacksonluvr636

That was pretty sick.

Dude was playing a backing track in front of a webcam or something so why worry about AAA production? I am sure the album will sound great.

I am unsure if the rumors are true or not but my take on it is this.....If you can actually play it live then who cares how it is tracked? You are going to want a 110% performance on your album, punch in's have been around forever and tons of people edit, punch, re-track parts and all of that all the time. The chances of 99.9% of all guitarists double tracking an entire album flawlessly is slim to none, lets be real. Especially if it is tech and yes, even if they wrote it themselves and can play it.

IMO there is absolutely nothing wrong with that but if it is a situation where the song is sped up AFTER tracking and is much slower live because the band cannot physically play the song up to speed than you suck balls and are a farce. 100% not ok.

Again, internet rumors are just that and idk which it is. Plus that is just my opinion and no one cares anyway 

Sick song though nonetheless.


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## sharedEQ

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> IMO there is absolutely nothing wrong with that but if it is a situation where the song is much slower live because the band cannot physically play the song up to speed than you suck balls and are a farce. 100% not ok.



Kinda agree, but what about metal singers from the 80s that couldnt hit all the album notes live?


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## Jacksonluvr636

sharedEQ said:


> Kinda agree, but what about metal singers from the 80s that couldnt hit all the album notes live?



Dang you quoted me before I got to edit my post BUT to answer your question......

Very good question , devil's advocate here lol...

It depends on how it was done. 

example 1) If it was lets say autotune then no, they also suck and are a farce.

example 2) If they hit the note themselves in the studio, even if it took them 300 takes to get it than IMO they still did it and there is nothing wrong with that.

It is still a little lame to be let down live. No one is perfect and you can't play an entire set perfectly every single night for years and years. You are bound to miss a note at some point no matter how good you are.

On the flip side, the recent Guns and Roses live tour is a great example with Axl not hitting the super highs. I am not sure if it was him or a computer in the studio but I assume it was him so it would not be the same thing.

Speeding up your tracks after you track them because you physically can not do it is not the same thing as having to have many takes to get something perfect.


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## bostjan

Fun fact: "a lot"* of singers in the 1980s (and the 1970s as well) would purposely slow down the tape when recording to make their voices sound higher during playback at normal speed.

*indeterminate number of singers, including Robert Plant, Frank Sinatra, Bryan Adams, and more


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## Jacksonluvr636

bostjan said:


> Fun fact: "a lot"* of singers in the 1980s (and the 1970s as well) would purposely slow down the tape when recording to make their voices sound higher during playback at normal speed.
> 
> *indeterminate number of singers, including Robert Plant, Frank Sinatra, Bryan Adams, and more



I was never much into that music but major loss of respect on my end for anyone who did that.

It's all opinions of course but to me that's cheating.


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## jerm

^Don't go into the studio then cause you'll see a lot of that kind of stuff going on.


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## bostjan

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> I was never much into that music but major loss of respect on my end for anyone who did that.
> 
> It's all opinions of course but to me that's cheating.



All of the Alvin and the Chipmunks records, as well. 

But yeah, studio tricks have been around as long as studios have been around.

Even old footage of a lot of bands, recorded on 8mm or whatever film, reveal that a number of artists would record a song in, say F#, and play it live in F or E or even Eb. The idea wasn't only that it was more impressive that they could hit the high notes, but that the vocals would sound poppier and snappier.

In some cases it is more or less obvious that the trick was used, especially when things take on a bit of the "Alvin and the Chipmunks" quality (The Song Remains the Same), but usually the information comes from producers who reveal the trick either accidentally slipping an artist's name or to get a jab in at an artist they do not like. It was likely a prevalent technique on several recordings that we will never know, since, when done artistically, it can have a subtle enough effect on the voice that it cannot be easily detected.

I wouldn't be surprised if instrumentalists might have done the same sort of thing.


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## Jacksonluvr636

bostjan said:


> All of the Alvin and the Chipmunks records, as well.
> 
> But yeah, studio tricks have been around as long as studios have been around.
> 
> Even old footage of a lot of bands, recorded on 8mm or whatever film, reveal that a number of artists would record a song in, say F#, and play it live in F or E or even Eb. The idea wasn't only that it was more impressive that they could hit the high notes, but that the vocals would sound poppier and snappier.
> 
> In some cases it is more or less obvious that the trick was used, especially when things take on a bit of the "Alvin and the Chipmunks" quality (The Song Remains the Same), but usually the information comes from producers who reveal the trick either accidentally slipping an artist's name or to get a jab in at an artist they do not like. It was likely a prevalent technique on several recordings that we will never know, since, when done artistically, it can have a subtle enough effect on the voice that it cannot be easily detected.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if instrumentalists might have done the same sort of thing.



Alvin is legit though, he gets a pass from me.


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## QuantumCybin

I'm indifferent towards the song, but does anyone else think a pickguard has no place on a Strandberg? Gross!


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## sharedEQ

OK, I'm going to say it.

I think that in order for a band to truly be legit, they need to release a live album.


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## coreysMonster

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It doesn't look right. Everything he does looks really jittery.


I thought his hands looked jittery, too, but usually what gives away sped up footage are the facial expressions or the movement of the hair, because they snap back and forth unnaturally fast. His face looks normal to me, even if his fingers look weird in whatever recording setup they had there.

Then again, who knows. I don't mind people using studio tricks at all, because that's what the studio is for, but faking live footage instead of just admitting you can't pull it off live is lame.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

coreysMonster said:


> I thought his hands looked jittery, too, but usually what gives away sped up footage are the facial expressions or the movement of the hair, because they snap back and forth unnaturally fast. His face looks normal to me, even if his fingers look weird in whatever recording setup they had there..



That's actually what I meant. His face looked extremely twitchy and whatnot.

Al Mumin has a history of being a sloppy live player as well.


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## Double A

His face looks fine. My face (and my fathers) twitches like that too when I am really concentrating while playing. Everyone has their own little ticks when they are that deep into it.


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## anomynous

Necropitated said:


> Yep, I was in the band, but was fired/let go or whatever you want to call it because, these are his words: "THM won't be happening soon but if/when it does I'd like to have a band in London for simplicity's sake". That was part of the e-mail I got in August 2008, after 1,5 years of complete silence.....
> I'll still record that one take LTP and send it to the e-mail though, if he can't find someone.....I'll also upload it on facebook and youtube, so everyone can see it. Recording a lot of videos lately and the whole Disclosure album is still on my bucket list.


2008? I thought it was after the exodus of 2013?


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## 7 Strings of Hate

Lorcan Ward said:


> Did you even watch the video? He's clearly playing. Not sure how you could possibly think thats sped up  )



Um, yea i watched the video. It looked sketchy as hell. It definatly has something weird going on with and and after the last debacle, you should get the vasoline off your eyes.


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## Necropitated

anomynous said:


> 2008? I thought it was after the exodus of 2013?


 
Haha, sorry, just saw that typo. It was in August 2015.


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## Randy

Varberg GAS


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## jeremyb

Looks sped up, given the hilarity around his earlier stuff....


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## bloc

Randy said:


> Varberg GAS



Amen to that. All I hear is Boden this and Boden that but the Varberg is honestly the real beauty imo.


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## Wildebeest

I stand by The HAARP Machine and welcome them back with open arms.


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## Nlelith

Wow, some people think this video might be sped up? Guys, it's impossible to speed up the video of a person doing something without making it blatantly obvious. Just look at his face/jedi robe, they move natural.

up
Oh, there's a second page in this thread, and people here are sure that it's sped up... Nope. It's not!  Just try to film yourself playing slowly and then speed it up in any editing program, and you'll see what I mean.


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## knet370

video looks 100% legit to me. the noise from the picking being heard from the camera's mic etc looks as normal as possible.


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## Emperor Guillotine

As much as some members on this forum want HAARP to make a comeback, the reality is that it probably won't happen. Al has a very negative reputation. (Remember when he was the one to try to air the "dirty laundry" here on SS.org?) Because of the negative reputation that has earned thanks to his terrible demeanor, piss poor public behavior, and inability to perform his own material live in the past, I'm fairly certain that no one is going to want to work with him. The bridges are burned before they have even been built. (Al is probably in a similar boat to Michael Keene, except Keene can actually play the sh*t that he writes and has had vastly more success without being a Class-A jackass in the public eye.)

Seems like many of the UK players in the community all know each other. So they all probably already have gotten wind of Al at some point or another and are smart enough to avoid working with him. Al is going to have to be willing to branch out further in his quest for musicians, but he seems pretty intent on "UK only" for the sake of convenience.


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## downburst82

Count me among those that think the video looks legit. I know its hard to believe but maybe he took past critiques to heart and has been really working on his chops. Good on him, I dont love the song though....


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## lemeker

Nlelith said:


> Wow, some people think this video might be sped up? Guys, it's impossible to speed up the video of a person doing something without making it blatantly obvious. Just look at his face/jedi robe, they move natural.



With the video editing tools they have these days, it wouldn't surprise me if it was edited in some way.

That being said, I don't think this video is sped up. Even though there are some jittery spots, hearing the pick hit the strings, and the track he's playing behind, it just seems legit to me. I don't see the purpose of doing that if he's trying to get the band back together.


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## Ordacleaphobia

Yeah guys, I don't really think he'd go so far as to try and fake a live shot. That is super hard to do. Maybe we need to get him all Lucas Mann'd out and have him re-do the video with a dozen clocks on the wall. 
On the topic of HAARP, I loved Disclosure, and I seriously wouldn't mind if he couldn't play 1 song off of 'the new album' live. He still wrote it, and that's the impressive part imo. Kinda want to see HAARP be a thing again but I'm not getting my hopes up. What Al really needs to do is just make HAARP a true solo project, some guys just aren't people-people and that's fine.


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## Jonathan20022

The sped up stuff will never fade away for him and his band sadly, the video doesn't have any indication in my eyes of it being faked. And I've gotten vastly more experienced in videography in recent years and editing footage for work. The nuances give away that it isn't a slowed down performance, vibrato and bending in general is the biggest indicator for sped up videos. Especially when they don't match the audio very visibly.

The amount of effort it takes to properly reproduce nuances of an audio track in a single take are immense. And I've tried myself before, but if he's practicing producing a fake video to that degree which I don't believe he is. He'd have gotten enough practice to properly play at full speed given how much time it takes to do that.

I don't give a .... about all the drama surrounding him or the playing tricks, so long as we get another album or few songs I'll be glad. If I were in his position I wouldn't even bother with videos like these, but the controversy and amount of people who care about this is obviously high.


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## avinu

I think some of you guys are crossing into conspiracy theorist teritory. I guess it's fitting for the band's subject matter though lol. I dont care if this dude is a dick. I dont care if he uses studio tricks. His riffs are solid gold. I'd jam his fvcking guitar pro files if they were the only thing available.


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## Lorcan Ward

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Um, yea i watched the video. It looked sketchy as hell. It definatly has something weird going on with and and after the last debacle, you should get the vasoline off your eyes.



Way to dodge the question and not explain what you think is wrong. Are you just going to sling .... and act like you know everything about making guitar videos or are you going to try and explain what's wrong? 

I've seen the guy live 3 foot away and had a few beers backstage after playing his strandberg. He's a monstrous player despite what people want to judge from the strandberg and studio miming live videos. I've also been making guitars videos for over ten years now too so I'm not the one with Vaseline on my eyes dude so try again. This time with an actual explanation.


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## BIG ND SWEATY

Some of you guys need to throw on your tinfoil hats with all this half speed sh_i_t, he's very obviously playing in this video. The fu_c_k do you think happens when you're playing fast? Of course you're going to look a bit jittery. 

Al writes some seriously sick riffs so I hope he actually gets back into making music again. I hope he goes the instrumental route or at least finds a better vocalist because that's what made the last album un-listenable for me.


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## Zalbu

The video is only 25 FPS, that makes it look jittery, especially with such a high resolution

And who cares if it's sped up? It's music, not the Olympics


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## 7 Strings of Hate

Lorcan Ward said:


> Way to dodge the question and not explain what you think is wrong. Are you just going to sling .... and act like you know everything about making guitar videos or are you going to try and explain what's wrong?
> 
> I've seen the guy live 3 foot away and had a few beers backstage after playing his strandberg. He's a monstrous player despite what people want to judge from the strandberg and studio miming live videos. I've also been making guitars videos for over ten years now too so I'm not the one with Vaseline on my eyes dude so try again. This time with an actual explanation.



Not sure what question i avoided genius. You literally asked if i watched it. Well i did. It looks jittery as ..... Regardless, dude is slimy and if you guys want to dig it? Whatever. But speeding up(which he has been caught doing in the past) your videos isnt a studio trick. Its blatantly trying to take people for a ride.


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## 7 Strings of Hate

Zalbu said:


> And who cares if it's sped up? It's music, not the Olympics



Personally, i respect people that can really play. The guy seems like he can play fine. But not quite as fast as he would like so hes speeding things up (which he has done in the past)and then attempting to sloppily play them in a live setting.


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## sharedEQ

Emperor Guillotine said:


> As much as some members on this forum want HAARP to make a comeback, the reality is that it probably won't happen. Al has a very negative reputation. (Remember when he was the one to try to air the "dirty laundry" here on SS.org?) Because of the negative reputation that has earned thanks to his terrible demeanor, piss poor public behavior, and inability to perform his own material live in the past, I'm fairly certain that no one is going to want to work with him. The bridges are burned before they have even been built. (Al is probably in a similar boat to Michael Keene, except Keene can actually play the sh*t that he writes and has had vastly more success without being a Class-A jackass in the public eye.)
> 
> Seems like many of the UK players in the community all know each other. So they all probably already have gotten wind of Al at some point or another and are smart enough to avoid working with him. Al is going to have to be willing to branch out further in his quest for musicians, but he seems pretty intent on "UK only" for the sake of convenience.



I read that post and thought he came off as the more intelligent and respectful.

I hate to see someone get bullied by a mob. Even if you don't like his stuff, or think its fake, let him do his own thing. Trying to perpetuate the notion that he has a "bad reputation" is the kind of thing high school girls do.


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## GeriatricNinja

Looks genuine to me, couldn't see anything that would lead me to believe it was sped up.
But regardless, would be amped to hear some new music


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## Lorcan Ward

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Not sure what question i avoided genius. You literally asked if i watched it. Well i did. It looks jittery as ..... Regardless, dude is slimy and if you guys want to dig it? Whatever. But speeding up(which he has been caught doing in the past) your videos isnt a studio trick. Its blatantly trying to take people for a ride.



"Not sure how you could possibly think thats sped up"

That would be where you actually explain why you think its sped up when I asked did you watch the video.

Based on my experience its jittery because of the camera being used, way its imported, software its edited in and getting converted to youtube. Exact same thing happens when my friend records me with his 1k+ camera, it comes out weird with frames missing. I had to try a few different formats and export options to get it smooth. Youtube is a terrible player too that squashes the quality, put it on 1080HP and its a lot smoother, if its still jittery then its your computer and connection.


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## ArtHam

Emperor Guillotine said:


> As much as some members on this forum want HAARP to make a comeback, the reality is that it probably won't happen. Al has a very negative reputation. (Remember when he was the one to try to air the "dirty laundry" here on SS.org?) Because of the negative reputation that has earned thanks to his terrible demeanor, piss poor public behavior, and inability to perform his own material live in the past, I'm fairly certain that no one is going to want to work with him. The bridges are burned before they have even been built. (Al is probably in a similar boat to Michael Keene, except Keene can actually play the sh*t that he writes and has had vastly more success without being a Class-A jackass in the public eye.)
> 
> Seems like many of the UK players in the community all know each other. So they all probably already have gotten wind of Al at some point or another and are smart enough to avoid working with him. Al is going to have to be willing to branch out further in his quest for musicians, but he seems pretty intent on "UK only" for the sake of convenience.




Complete nonsense. If even Kevin, after being fired from the band, is still desperate enough to try out again and rejoin them (and he has worked with Al) I can guarantee that at this moment every capable UK guitarist is learning the song and trying out.
From what I heard both Steffen Kummerer and Muhammed Suicmez are nightmares to work with but if they look for musicians people will do anything to be in either band.
Same goes for Keene.

If given the chance I'm sure any of you would join any go these bands no matter what reputations their respective leaders have if it means you get to join an established band.


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## anomynous

sharedEQ said:


> I hate to see someone get bullied by a mob. Even if you don't like his stuff, or think its fake, let him do his own thing. Trying to perpetuate the notion that he has a "bad reputation" is the kind of thing high school girls do.


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## ArtHam

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Personally, i respect people that can really play. The guy seems like he can play fine. But not quite as fast as he would like so hes speeding things up (which he has done in the past)and then attempting to sloppily play them in a live setting.



I assume there is absolutely no way he practiced for a few years and got his chops up to par?


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## bostjan

Love him or hate him, the dude's got tons of publicity now from all of this conflict. That means a lot more people are talking about him than are talking about me and my band.

I've never met this guy personally, so I won't make a judgement about whether he is a good guy or not. I've heard some people speak of meeting high profile musicians and thinking they were horrible people and I met those same musicians and thought they were cool and down to earth. Part of it is that everyone has good days and bad, but maybe part of it is that some people are prone to become highly judgemental about others in order to make themselves feel better.

What I do know about Al from the HAARP Machine is that he used a studio trick that is ostensibly often used by bands of his genre and got into it with a couple of guys from Periphery on this board, and that there is a ton of trash talk about him on the internet. While none of that gives me a warm fuzzy feeling about him, none of it really directly says anything concrete about him, either.


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## 7 Strings of Hate

Lorcan Ward said:


> Based on my experience its jittery because of the camera being used, way its imported, software its edited in and getting converted to youtube. Exact same thing happens when my friend records me with his 1k+ camera, it comes out weird with frames missing. I had to try a few different formats and export options to get it smooth. Youtube is a terrible player too that squashes the quality, put it on 1080HP and its a lot smoother, if its still jittery then its your computer and connection.


Ok, then lets try this. His video looks weird and choppy. Never seen a guitar video that looked choppy and weird like that. Because guitar videos are ment to be clean and precise to show people what you are doing. And perhaps, call me crazy here, if you've been shown to do sketchy videos of you speeding things up, Maybe, just maybe don't film it in some sketchy weird framerate that obfuscates whats going on. I mean, it works because we have a thread discussing it. 




ArtHam said:


> I assume there is absolutely no way he practiced for a few years and got his chops up to par?


Absolutely. If he didn't already get called out for speeding his stuff up before and leaving the scene because of it, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.




I mean, younger people arn't as concerned with skill and things that take time to form anymore. If your ok with that? Fine. I just grew up taking pride in hard work to make a skill great. I respect people that work harder to make themselves better. With the type of music this guy is playing, its a point of pride for most musicians in that genera to be skilled and play that stuff for real. I'm sure he actually played the video. There is no tinfoil hat there. But the video definately looked weird and after his history, I think I'm well within the realm of being reasonable to doubt it.


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## Necropitated

ArtHam said:


> Complete nonsense. If even Kevin, after being fired from the band, is still desperate to rejoin them I can guarantee that at this moment every capable UK guitarist is learning the song and trying out.
> From what I heard both Steffen Kummerer and Muhammed Suicmez are nightmares to work with but if they look for musicians people will give their firstborn babies to be in either band.
> Same goes for Keene.
> 
> If given the chance I'm sure any of you would join any go these bands no matter what reputations their respective leaders have if it means you get to join an established band.



I'm not "desperate" to rejoin them. There are some major red flags, but there's no bad blood between us. I still like the music and I think the band could've made it to the top of their genre if there weren't those issues of the past. I'm thinking that he will have a hard time finding someone suitable in the UK. Only guy I can think of is Jonathan Strange (from Shred Training) 
Al already had international musician and that didn't work out, so finding someone who can actually play that stuff in the UK will almost be impossible. I practiced my ass off for 3 years just to be able to play it.
I still don't understand him kicking me out because of the distance. Germany is not far and a flight costs around 50&#8364;. That is simple. (yep there's some bitterness about that situation)

About the video being sped up: the playing doesn't look sped up or cheated to me. I've played with him 3 times and it looks legit. A few things about that. First off, it's not a direct recording, unlike that infamous The Escapist Notion video, so some of the sloppiness, that's actually natural since we are not machines (lol), is not audible. His guitar might also be a pre-recorded track we're hearing. He cheated before, so it might be possible. The playing still looks legit to me. He could play the stuff when we rehearsed, though of course not as tight as he made everyone believe with those cheated videos and recordings. No one is that tight. But he could play it. Since I had a few occasions playing with him close-up, I have to say , he has a weird technique. He's not always playing alternate picking but he's doing a lot of down-strokes, that's why it always looks so strange. He has a lot of "jumping" movements because of that. I play most of it with strict alternate-picking but often starting with an upstroke to make it easier. 
That's why his playing might look unnatural....well it actually does.


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## TGOD

...uh, did nobody consider that he maybe has been practicing to get his chops up this entire time, after his entire band dipped on him over 3 years ago?

Just saying - it's a possibility, as we haven't really heard anything from him in those 3 years. That's A LOT of time to practice and get your .... together.

The video doesn't look faked or sped up at all. His face looks fine, his "robe" doesn't look sped up at all (even the parts closest to his hands), and you can CLEARLY hear the sound of the pick hitting the strings for almost every note played.


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## Ordacleaphobia

7 Strings of Hate said:


> I mean, younger people arn't as concerned with skill and things that take time to form anymore. If your ok with that? Fine. I just grew up taking pride in hard work to make a skill great.



Like....writing music?
I'm not trying to tell you what to think, but doesn't the fact that he _wrote_ some seriously intense material mean anything? In my opinion, writing good music is a lot more difficult than playing good music. Perhaps that's even what made him feel the need to spoof the video in the first place, knowing that people would deconstruct his project over his playing ability, rather than appreciating the music. 

Or maybe it was just vanity and a need to be seen as the shr3ddiest dj0ntiest player ever. Given the account of just about everyone who's ever worked with him, I wouldn't be surprised if it was so simple.


----------



## ArtHam

Necropitated said:


> I'm not "desperate" to rejoin them. There are some major red flags, but there's no bad blood between us. I still like the music and I think the band could've made it to the top of their genre if there weren't those issues of the past. I'm thinking that he will have a hard time finding someone suitable in the UK. Only guy I can think of is Jonathan Strange (from Shred Training)
> Al already had international musician and that didn't work out, so finding someone who can actually play that stuff in the UK will almost be impossible. I practiced my ass off for 3 years just to be able to play it.
> I still don't understand him kicking me out because of the distance. Germany is not far and a flight costs around 50. That is simple. (yep there's some bitterness about that situation)



It makes me wonder though: why put yourself in that position again then? The stuff that happened with the band will always follow them. Even if you do rejoin them you'll -assumingly- never be able to contribute to the band since Al is apparently a control-freak and the band name will always be associated with the negative issues. What is the charm of playing in a band like that? I mean I'm a fan of the album, but not of any of the controversy surrounding them. Why wouldn't you just do your own thing? What would you gain from playing with the band? Something tells me it can't be money since I don't think the band makes any. Or is it what I stated before? The "ease" of joining a "established" band?(not sure if this band actually _is_ that established, but rolling with it).


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Like....writing music?
> I'm not trying to tell you what to think, but doesn't the fact that he _wrote_ some seriously intense material mean anything? In my opinion, writing good music is a lot more difficult than playing good music. Perhaps that's even what made him feel the need to spoof the video in the first place, knowing that people would deconstruct his project over his playing ability, rather than appreciating the music.
> 
> Or maybe it was just vanity and a need to be seen as the shr3ddiest dj0ntiest player ever. Given the account of just about everyone who's ever worked with him, I wouldn't be surprised if it was so simple.



I'v wrote some amazing stuff in guitar pro. Stuff I could never play because its practically impossible. 
If you read any of my posts, I'm not at all dissing the content of what hes playing.

I would just feel slimy if i made a video trying to make people think I could play something in a way I can't. Thats all. I know its "business" these days with the internet. I just don't like guitar pro gods trying to pass it off as anything else.


----------



## ArtHam

7 Strings of Hate said:


> I'v wrote some amazing stuff in guitar pro. Stuff I could never play because its practically impossible.
> If you read any of my posts, I'm not at all dissing the content of what hes playing.



Kind of get what you're saying. The only difference being that people actually care about this band and like their music.

Al wrote this music and the video looks completely legit, so now he can play it too. 

I guess at some point it becomes more of a "put up or shut up" issue. So time to show what you got since you already wrote some amazing stuff! Now practice!


----------



## musicaldeath

I kind of want this guy to be legit about it all this time as I really do enjoy the music. We'll see. New video is cool, I don't know whether or not it is slowed down or sped up - don't really have an opinion. Would just be cool to see him get a band together and put out more music.


----------



## bostjan

Question:

Would you guys still like this music if it was played slower? If so, how much slower, in round terms, would be acceptable?


----------



## coreysMonster

Haarp machine could definitely work slower. Some songs I'd wager could even be substantially slower, kinda like Meshuggah's Raretrax version of Concatenation. Go from frantic sounding to just groovy and crushing.

Other bands like Rings of Saturn live off of the balls-to-the-wall speed and chaos, but Haarp was always more about the melodies to me, personally.


----------



## Forkface

The hell is wrong with people in this thread? do you guys also hate electronic music 'cause "its not a real instrument"??
there are no rules in music creation. that also means theres no cheating. anybody can do whatever they want. maybe you wont like it, but other people will.

In fact, i think limiting your music creativity to what you can actually play is very counterproductive. I record piano, strings, drums and so much other .... on my tracks that i definitely cant play. Does that mean im cheating? gtfo outta here.\

/rant


----------



## Randy

bostjan said:


> Question:
> 
> Would you guys still like this music if it was played slower? If so, how much slower, in round terms, would be acceptable?



I would like the music if it were up to 15% slower but not a single BPM below that


----------



## sharedEQ

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Like....writing music?
> I'm not trying to tell you what to think, but doesn't the fact that he _wrote_ some seriously intense material mean anything? In my opinion, writing good music is a lot more difficult than playing good music.



I agree. What is more intesting to me, if someon else is able to learn and play his songs, why wouldn't they be writing their own? At that point they should be able to write songs in the genre.


----------



## ArtDecade

Sped up or not... I'm just not digging the songwriting.


----------



## jerm

^writing good music is much harder than playing good music.


----------



## ArtDecade

jerm said:


> ^writing good music is much harder than playing good music.



I can't do either.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

Forkface said:


> The hell is wrong with people in this thread? do you guys also hate electronic music 'cause "its not a real instrument"??
> there are no rules in music creation. that also means theres no cheating. anybody can do whatever they want. maybe you wont like it, but other people will.
> 
> In fact, i think limiting your music creativity to what you can actually play is very counterproductive. I record piano, strings, drums and so much other .... on my tracks that i definitely cant play. Does that mean im cheating? gtfo outta here.\
> 
> /rant



The point wasn't that there were rules or cheating, but making lie videos showing that you can do something you actually cant. I'v never seen Tim Hecker make a video that implys hes playing the sounds comming out of Reaktor.


----------



## ArtDecade

7 Strings of Hate said:


> The point wasn't that there were rules or cheating, but making lie videos showing that you can do something you actually cant.



This. No one is saying that you shouldn't write music that you can't play. Zappa wrote symphonies for instruments that he never picked up. The difference is that Zappa didn't make a video showing him miming xylophone pieces.


----------



## sakeido

So he made the original playthrough video that sounded like it had live audio, but was actually produced with several audio takes layered over a mostly one take video. Strandie vid he did was obviously produced, dunno why anyone thought it wasn't. A small corner of the internet started to hate. Live performance vids came out, weren't good, more hate. 

Guy retires to his bedroom for almost 4 years to practice his songs. Comes back with a one take playthrough that is clearly live, not only because of the string noise and room audio, but because he makes a fair few mistakes which he left in the vid instead of overdubbing. 

Geniuses accuse him of cheating again 

Cool! 

Meanwhile, almost every single guitar playthrough video that comes out during this four years (and before the old Haarp playthrough, come to think of it) are one take videos with heavily produced audio - if they even bother recording a new track at all. A lot of them just mime the studio track. Nobody seems to care about that.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

sakeido said:


> Geniuses accuse him of cheating again



Re-read that. Then re-read it again. AGAIN being the key word in that phrase 

Honestly, I think most people are simply saying that the video looks framey and weird. Its his past behavior that implys there is "cheating".


----------



## Mathemagician

Tons of bands record in E or drop D but play live half a step lower. They even admit it (Metallica). Who cares? Do I like The song remains the same? Yes. Thanks for making a great song guys!


----------



## sakeido

7 Strings of Hate said:


> Re-read that. Then re-read it again. AGAIN being the key word in that phrase
> 
> Honestly, I think most people are simply saying that the video looks framey and weird. Its his past behavior that implys there is "cheating".



Forgiveness is divine. I know the mob mentality so pervasive online these days doesn't make any room for that, but I do. 

It's an encouraging example of a guy seemingly admitting he ....ed up and working for *three years* to make good on whatever promises his recorded songs implied. 

The real proof will be in if he gets another band together and puts on a good show. Here's hoping. Buddy has already formed and lost a band made of stellar musicians. He might not get a second chance.


----------



## Double A

Forkface said:


> The hell is wrong with people in this thread? do you guys also hate electronic music 'cause "its not a real instrument"??
> there are no rules in music creation. that also means theres no cheating. anybody can do whatever they want. maybe you wont like it, but other people will.
> 
> In fact, i think limiting your music creativity to what you can actually play is very counterproductive. I record piano, strings, drums and so much other .... on my tracks that i definitely cant play. Does that mean im cheating? gtfo outta here.\
> 
> /rant


Because it is not electronic music, it is guitars. It reeeeeeeally is not that hard to understand.


----------



## jwade

Couldn't give a .... less about the whiny argument that you guys are drowning in yet again, all I can say is that it was a really enjoyable track. Some bits really reminded me of old NES soundtracks. Dug that.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

jwade said:


> Couldn't give a .... less about the whiny argument that you guys are drowning in yet again, all I can say is that it was a really enjoyable track. Some bits really reminded me of old NES soundtracks. Dug that.



+1


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Are people forgetting that this is just "Lower the Populace" off the album? I see half of the people commenting on this thread acting like this is a new song.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Are people forgetting that this is just "Lower the Populace" off the album? I see half of the people commenting on this thread acting like this is a new song.



I assume a lot of people just don't remember that song. Today was the first day I've listened to that album in about 2 years, and I only revisited it because of this thread. I assume I might not have been the only one


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Are people forgetting that this is just "Lower the Populace" off the album? I see half of the people commenting on this thread acting like this is a new song.





My favourite song off the album.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Double A said:


> Because it is not electronic music, it is guitars. It reeeeeeeally is not that hard to understand.



Not really...at all. All a guitar is is a tool, the same way a synthesizer is a tool, or Superior Drummer is a tool. Creating something with one is the same as creating something with another.
The point that 7SOH made (and later clarified, I had misinterpreted him at first) was that it only becomes a problem if you act like you can do something you can't. As a drummer I don't really care about all the bedroom guitar warriors riffing over SD2 backing tracks with 2 minute long blasts at like 240bpm, that's their thing and sometimes it sounds tight. If one of those guys who can barely play drums charts something up in SD though, and posts it saying that they played the drums on the album, then that's just kind of a joke. 

Gotta say I agree with a lot of the guys in here, Al lost a lot of my respect trying to act like he was hot sh*t when he couldn't actually play the material. But if he worked on his chops and can hold it down now, maybe act a bit less dickish, I'd give him the respect he deserves. Disclosure was still great and I'd be stoked to see a new record.



Emperor Guillotine said:


> Are people forgetting that this is just "Lower the Populace" off the album? I see half of the people commenting on this thread acting like this is a new song.



LOL, I've got to admit, I thought it was new material at first until I heard that interlude. Seeing Al trying to get HAARP back up and running does hold promise for new material though. Didn't he post a couple clips of new stuff on Facebook or some social media thing a while back too?


----------



## cronux

Watched the video about 4-5 times and it seems ok, that dude can play that song but uuuuhhhh...i gotta ask a dumb question 

What's the poing of playing that fast and that complex if you are playing with 90-100% of your capabilities 90% of the time? (at least that's what it looks like to me)

I mean, he looks transfixed... Can he even move when playing that, like half a feet? What if something happens to the tempo and he has to play 5-10% faster live? Is that even possible? 

Maybe I'm wrong but someone's gotta ask the dumb questions


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin

cronux said:


> Watched the video about 4-5 times and it seems ok, that dude can play that song but uuuuhhhh...i gotta ask a dumb question
> 
> What's the poing of playing that fast and that complex if you are playing with 90-100% of your capabilities 90% of the time? (at least that's what it looks like to me)
> 
> I mean, he looks transfixed... Can he even move when playing that, like half a feet? What if something happens to the tempo and he has to play 5-10% faster live? Is that even possible?
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong but someone's gotta ask the dumb questions



That's a valid point. I noticed the same while watching, though my thought was more 'his neck is going to hurt from having to play like that.' Even when I try to play my most complicated and what I consider difficult pieces I am trying to learn to be as relaxed as possible in my whole. It just helps things flow. That said, the song didn't do anything for me. More or less seems like ideas pulled out of a hat and composed just as randomly.


----------



## jerm

^^Most bands tend to play with a backing track; therefore the drummer is most likely playing to a click.


----------



## bostjan

cronux said:


> Watched the video about 4-5 times and it seems ok, that dude can play that song but uuuuhhhh...i gotta ask a dumb question
> 
> What's the poing of playing that fast and that complex if you are playing with 90-100% of your capabilities 90% of the time? (at least that's what it looks like to me)
> 
> I mean, he looks transfixed... Can he even move when playing that, like half a feet? What if something happens to the tempo and he has to play 5-10% faster live? Is that even possible?
> 
> Maybe I'm wrong but someone's gotta ask the dumb questions



That's sort of my thought about all of this, myself.

It seems to me that the music is complex and would still be impressive at 85%-90% of this tempo. The fact that it's a bit faster doesn't bother me, but if it sounds pretty much just as good slowed down, why bother to have the recording sped up?

In regard to how creative this guy is, I really don't think a single one of his detractors are saying that, so to argue that is just kind of proving to everyone that you are totally missing the point.

I'm not going to look at Skrillex and say "Wow what a great guitarist!" because that isn't what he does. The idea of playing such complex parts very fast on an instrument is to tell the world "Hey, look at me, I'm incredibly talented, disciplined, and creative!" and when it comes out to the public that you sped up your stuff and cannot play it in concert, and you somehow build a bad reputation among supporting musicians and venue operators, then the public will develop a highly negative opinion of you.

But again, now he posts this video and everyone is talking about how much they love it or hate it or don't care. So it's a huge win for the guy, because as an entertainer (not a minister or politician), you thrive off of both good and bad publicity, basically the same.

I can think of other musicians whose shows were total disasters (*coughaxl* *coughrose*) and all it did was boost their careers even more. Just look at music sales and charts and all of that good stuff, and you will realize that, although lots of people are attracted to genuine talent, even more people are attracted to drama and bull...., when it comes to entertainment. That's why "reality TV" works, why "fail videos" on youtube get millions of views, and why "Clinton vs Trump" is a US presidential election.

This guy is clearly very talented, but I think there is a lot of BS surrounding him. Whether it was attracted to him or whether he attracted it, we'll never know, but probably somewhat both. Whatever the case, I think he won't disappear until he wants to. And if you don't like him, just remember that the more you talk about not liking him on the internet, the more people will find out about him, and the bigger he'll get.


----------



## coreysMonster

bostjan said:


> And if you don't like him, just remember that the more you talk about not liking him on the internet, the more people will find out about him, and the bigger he'll get.


This is definitely true. I found out about Rings of Saturn from people ragging on Lucas' solo album video, which turned into two more album sales for them.


----------



## cronux

coreysMonster said:


> Rings of Saturn



man... when I remember all the drama going on around them


----------



## bostjan

coreysMonster said:


> This is definitely true. I found out about Rings of Saturn from people ragging on Lucas' solo album video, which turned into two more album sales for them.



Ditto. I first heard of them from arguments on another forum between their fans and haters.

One could draw several parallels between RoS and tHM.

If it happens once, it says something about the artist, but if it happens multiple times, it says something about the fans, IMO.

I actually enjoy both, musically, TBH, but I generally just grab a bucket of popcorn when a thread starts going the hate route. I guess I'm in a mood lately of having to throw my two pennies into everything.


----------



## TheKindred

I like how the jittery bits were first passed off as being filmed at 60fps, then it was jittery because it was under 45fps, then it was jittery because it was filmed at 25fps.

Fan bois gonna fan. 

For the record, I don't care either way; just think it's hilarious how everyone pulls numbers out of their ass.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

bostjan said:


> This guy is clearly very talented, but I think there is a lot of BS surrounding him. Whether it was attracted to him or whether he attracted it, we'll never know, but probably somewhat both. Whatever the case, I think he won't disappear until he wants to. And if you don't like him, just remember that the more you talk about not liking him on the internet, the more people will find out about him, and the bigger he'll get.



He opened up a lot of peoples eyes to just how over produced and basically fake all kinds of tech metal is on recordings. I would have never thought Epitaph was single notes edited together but now that I listen I can hear how every note is perfectly played and on time with zero bleed into the next. 

He gets a lot of **** for the strandberg and studio videos which is far but as for heavily editing guitars in the studio its no different than what Necrophagist, Born of osiris, Within the Ruins and nearly every tech band has done in recent years. Its a defining part of the genre to make the album is tight and clear as possible.



7 Strings of Hate said:


> Never seen a guitar video that looked choppy and weird like that.



First 20 seconds or so look at my picking hand and the choppy changes when I change positions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63NVRIXzWyM

So yeah like you said he should have just used an iPhone or something like that which would have been smooth but I know from actual experience with that video why is jittery.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Just because different people gave different answers doesn't devalue the actual experience of people who know what they're talking about. It looks like 60fps footage that was normalized to 24fps which can give the impression of jitteriness.

There's a clear difference between this



and this



I don't give a .... either way, but the only thing I call into account is layering pre-recorded audio over his playing *which 99% of playthrough videos do anyways*. Like I said before I dig the music, his fingers are clearly pulling it off so idc about all the drama surrounding the people.


----------



## sharedEQ

The guy wrote some good, interesting music. Trying to play this kind of technical music live, is alot harder than most kinds of music, not just the playing but the acoustics of the venue, sound man, etc. 

I don't wonder that he has a hard time staffing his band.

I wouldnt have heard of this guy except for the controversy.


----------



## Pav

Was this guy ever as big of a public douchebag as the asshat from Rings of Saturn though? I first heard of both them and The Haarp Machine through the same means - the controversy had exploded to a point that transcended their music. Whereas with Rings of Saturn I was able to watch a few videos of Lucas Mann and tell immediately that he was an arrogant POS, I've never seen or heard anything from this Haarp Machine guy outside of people complaining through social media, which gives me the impression that this guy (Al Mu'min?) didn't do anything except ruffle someone's feathers to the point that they blew it way out of proportion.  Don't get me wrong though, I really don't care either way. My interest in outrageously technical metal all but disappeared when I saw Necrophagist play live for the first time about a decade ago.


----------



## Demiurge

Well, this thread has made me listen to 500% more of this band than I have in the past. Not that it matters, but my personal verdict is that the video in the OP is legit. Almost every internet guitar solo video looks funny because the frame rates on these cameras always make the hand movements look weird.

Also, I look at it pragmatically. If you're going to "use the studio as an instrument" and have all its benefits and tricks at your disposal- aren't you going to aim big? I'm not talking about a Wagnerian Gesamtkunstwerk, but using all of the advantages of modern multi-track recording just to make it look like you can play all your compositions of random chugs & widdleys _just a little bit faster than IRL_ is, like, pediatric-burn-unit-level sad. Really, someone who needs to make the internet think that they can play guitar faster than they actually can- that person deserves empathy and needs help more than anything else.


----------



## canuck brian

If he still can't play it live, why would he bother assembling a band?

Orrrrr...the vids legit.

I can't wait for more stuff outta the Haarp Machine. I loved that first album to death.


----------



## Xaios

_Blahblah_spedup_blahblah_studiotrickery_blahblah_lucasmannisthedevil_blahblah..._

No one's asked the REAL question here: why is he wearing a robe?


----------



## musicaldeath

Clearly this is a new genre... Jedi Tech Metal.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

musicaldeath said:


> Clearly this is a new genre... Jedi Tech Metal.


I'm hopping on this new trend. Pics and vids to come soon.


----------



## cronux

Xaios said:


> why is he wearing a robe?



Shower metal? 

 

Don't care if it's punched in note per note, sped up or slowed down - really don't matter to me BUT it has to be played live without problem. Think that a lot of people will be glad that the Haarp Machine is back... 

They never were my cup of beer but it got intrigued when I hear that "this guy is super fast and tech savvy on guitar". Sure he's good but to me it's like taking a bedroom shredder and propping him up on stage to stand in one place to play complicated/fast riffs and that's about that... 

I'll just leave this here and be on my merry way 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_L0djbY65Q


----------



## coreysMonster

musicaldeath said:


> Clearly this is a new genre... Jedi Tech Metal.


Obligatory Anchorhead mention.



And yes they play live in Star Wars costumes.


----------



## Eptaceros

To all the people complaining about never seeing a video with lower frame rates. It's just another visual aesthetic.

Also saddens me to see the amount of defense of bs playthrough vids filled with layered tracks/pre-recorded audio/miming. It might be the standard for some, but when you say 99% of playthroughs are filmed like that, it's kind of a low blow for all the people actually putting in work for one-take live vids.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Pre-recorded audio/miming doesn't mean that a person can't play the music they wrote..

By that measure, every music video ever is also BS then since they're just miming to a track in scenery/story driven scenes. 

Music is music, I don't appreciate bands any less for how they record it. It's actually quite pretentious to dislike a band because of recording methods which once again, a majority actively uses.


----------



## Eptaceros

playthrough &#8800; music video

The whole point of a playthrough video is to show exactly how things are done, otherwise you're just stroking your ego.


----------



## musicaldeath

coreysMonster said:


> Obligatory Anchorhead mention.
> 
> 
> 
> And yes they play live in Star Wars costumes.




Anchorhead are (were?) awesome! First time I ever saw an 8 string was a live vid of them playing back in 2006 I think.

Back on topic.. if he can play it live, that really is all that matters. I don't care how they get it on record (that being said, I do prefer recordings that were done pre 2000's - sounded less digital to me, but that has nothing really to do with this).


----------



## Zalbu

TheKindred said:


> I like how the jittery bits were first passed off as being filmed at 60fps, then it was jittery because it was under 45fps, then it was jittery because it was filmed at 25fps.
> 
> Fan bois gonna fan.
> 
> For the record, I don't care either way; just think it's hilarious how everyone pulls numbers out of their ass.


Pulling numbers out of their ass? You do know you can just right click the video and look for yourself?


----------



## mike0

Jonathan20022 said:


> It's actually quite pretentious to dislike a band because of recording methods which once again, a majority actively uses.



My main problem with the recording methods isn't that it's "cheating," but rather more often than not the end result of the music is too pristine and polished for my liking. The modern trend seems to be to sound as tight and polished and perfect as possible (there's nothing wrong with aspiring for any of those, but it can lead to things sounding _too_ perfect, essentially to a fault), and my ears just don't jell with it at all. It's precisely why I can't get into a majority of modern metal bands or those with the "Sumerian" sound. This is all a matter of taste and opinion, but that's my take on the issue. I can't fault bands that do this, simply because that's how they want their music to sound, and there are people that enjoy listening to it. I, however, am not one of them.

As for the video, I was apparently under a rock (or something similar) when all of the original controversy went down, so this is the first I'm hearing of it. Disclaimer: I have nothing against The Haarp Machince, nor are they a band that I would actively listen to. I have absolutely no stake in the matter, one way or the other; however, my first thought when watching the video was "hmm, it looks slightly sped up." I'm attributing this mainly to the way his mouth jerks around - to me it looked somewhat unnaturally fast. Maybe that's just the way his face looks when he plays. Who knows? All I know is that I can't remember watching a single playthrough video and that thought popping into my head. But as someone that's impartial on the guy/band, there's my


----------



## Jonathan20022

Eptaceros said:


> playthrough &#8800; music video
> 
> The whole point of a playthrough video is to show exactly how things are done, otherwise you're just stroking your ego.



They're still miming and using pre-recorded audio in music videos so I'm just applying your logic to another scenario. In what way has the playthrough video being mimed and prerecorded failed the ability to portray how to play a song? It still accomplishes that regardless of how the audio is being presented, this .... is so nit picky and everyone seems to have a slightly different stance on it than another person.


----------



## Double A

Ordacleaphobia said:


> The point that 7SOH made (and later clarified, I had misinterpreted him at first) was that it only becomes a problem if you act like you can do something you can't. As a drummer I don't really care about all the bedroom guitar warriors riffing over SD2 backing tracks with 2 minute long blasts at like 240bpm, that's their thing and sometimes it sounds tight. If one of those guys who can barely play drums charts something up in SD though, and posts it saying that they played the drums on the album, then that's just kind of a joke.
> 
> Gotta say I agree with a lot of the guys in here, Al lost a lot of my respect trying to act like he was hot sh*t when he couldn't actually play the material. But if he worked on his chops and can hold it down now, maybe act a bit less dickish, I'd give him the respect he deserves. Disclosure was still great and I'd be stoked to see a new record.


This is the whole point. Anyone can create anything with a computer. It does take skill, but it is less about practice and work and dedication and more about raw creation. The problem lies when someone creates something they CAN'T actually play then they fake it so they can pass it off as their genuine musical talent and make money off of it. 

I know a lot of people here must be kids now, but have you all never heard of Milli Vanilli? Or ethics? And I am not saying that in a mean way. I am literally perplexed. You DON'T lie to people in this way because your fans and consumers in general will inevitably find out then you lose all credibility and respect and then you are done.

And I repeat, Electronic music=/=guitar wankery. Yes both things are music, but saying that is like saying Oranges and Bananas are both fruits. It is missing the point by just a bit.


----------



## Zalbu

Double A said:


> This is the whole point. Anyone can create anything with a computer. It does take skill, but it is less about practice and work and dedication and more about raw creation. The problem lies when someone creates something they CAN'T actually play then they fake it so they can pass it off as their genuine musical talent and make money off of it.
> 
> I know a lot of people here must be kids now, but have you all never heard of Milli Vanilli? Or ethics? And I am not saying that in a mean way. I am literally perplexed. You DON'T lie to people in this way because your fans and consumers in general will inevitably find out then you lose all credibility and respect and then you are done.
> 
> And I repeat, Electronic music=/=guitar wankery. Yes both things are music, but saying that is like saying Oranges and Bananas are both fruits. It is missing the point by just a bit.


Did I miss the part where music somehow became a competition? Is Al competing with other musicians to see who can make the most money or play the fastest? No? Then ethics has absolutely nothing to do with this. 

And there's videos on Youtube from when they're playing live and people are standing literally a foot away from him and record him playing, I think that passes as having the "genuine musical talent", either that or he's a very bad liar if he wants to lie to people and trick them into thinking he can't play the stuff he writes.


----------



## Double A

Zalbu said:


> Did I miss the part where music somehow became a competition? Is Al competing with other musicians to see who can make the most money or play the fastest? No? Then ethics has absolutely nothing to do with this.


First thing, my comment wasn't even about Al at this point. I even defended his face twitching earlier in this thread because I do the same damn thing. Second, speed, fast playing? I question what your grasp of what is meant when people talk about ethics.


----------



## ArtDecade

Zalbu said:


> Did I miss the part where music somehow became a competition? Is Al competing with other musicians to see who can make the most money or play the fastest? No? Then ethics has absolutely nothing to do with this.



If you release an album that displays high-flying, fleet-fingered, flawless technique and then it is later revealed that you can't actually play it.... the fans are more bummed that they've been misled. It's not really an ethical dilemma - more a lame dilemma.


----------



## coreysMonster

Nobody can actually play live as well as they do in the studio. That's the whole point of the studio. Everybody uses studio magic to some degree, as long as people are upfront about it I don't see any issue at all.

But either way, definitely not an ethical dilemma.


----------



## TheKindred

Zalbu said:


> Pulling numbers out of their ass? You do know you can just right click the video and look for yourself?



I do. So you're saying those 3 people clicked to find out, got 3 different frame rates, and all three of those different frame rates are responsible for the jittery video?

I must be crazy for assuming it was filmed at a consistent rate


----------



## Fred the Shred

To be completely honest here, it all looks pretty legit. The render's framerate isn't variable, it's set at exactly 25fps. Whether that was the original or some conversion due to algorithms pertaining the original upload having any sort of limitation processing it is impossible for me to establish.

Twitches look normal, movements do as well, there are no impossible dynamically uniform parts and as such I am assuming he finally went in and woodshedded to the level what he was attempting to produce demanded.

I was one of the guys giving him a ton of flak for the obvious smoke and mirrors which produced superhuman consistency while it all went to .... live in that time, but I see this performance and it is convincing - no frills, natural slight deviations in dynamics and timing, the noise gate screwing him when sustaining a given note, lots of stuff that any solid performer will go through regardless, so it's all good in my eye.


----------



## bostjan

86% of all numbers are just arbitrarily made up anyway. 

As I pointed out before, this is a huge publicity boost for the guy. Now if he comes to your town, not only will his fans show up, but probably even more people will likely come out simply to see if they can't find inconsistencies or other reasons to fuel the rage against him online. Then there would be maybe a handful of guys like me who would likely come out to see the spectacle that might erupt from fans vs haters.


----------



## CGrant109

Offtopic but still relevant to this thread: does this guy have 2 strandbergs?

He used to use this one:
http://www.metalinjection.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Al-Mumin-Varberg.jpg
*drools*

this recent video of him he's using this one:
http://i0.wp.com/www.metalinjection...Shot-2016-08-01-at-9.52.01-PM.png?fit=700,358

*drooools*


----------



## Spicypickles

That pick guard wouldn't look so bad if it weren't on the guitar.


That tune kicks ass.


----------



## Zalbu

ArtDecade said:


> If you release an album that displays high-flying, fleet-fingered, flawless technique and then it is later revealed that you can't actually play it.... the fans are more bummed that they've been misled. It's not really an ethical dilemma - more a lame dilemma.


Consider reading the second half of my post 



TheKindred said:


> I do. So you're saying those 3 people clicked to find out, got 3 different frame rates, and all three of those different frame rates are responsible for the jittery video?
> 
> I must be crazy for assuming it was filmed at a consistent rate



Filmed at is not the same as rendered as. Who is saying that it was rendered at 60 or less than 45 fps?


----------



## lemeker

I never got into them when they first came out, but I followed the thread, and am aware of what happened. 

I think everyone deserves a second chance. It looks to me like he's trying to make good on that.


----------



## ArtDecade

Zalbu said:


> Consider reading the second half of my post



Considered and done. You are forgetting or outright ignoring that he could not play the parts live and his whole band quit because it was kinda embarrassing. Phase One of his career didn't start terribly well.


----------



## Wildebeest

ArtDecade said:


> Considered and done. You are forgetting or outright ignoring that he could not play the parts live and his whole band quit because it was kinda embarrassing. Phase One of his career didn't start terribly well.


It started better than most bands that got nowhere. He was (is?) signed to Sumerian Records.


----------



## Double A

Wildebeest said:


> It started better than most bands that got nowhere. He was (is?) signed to Sumerian Records.


Well yeah, he got further than most of us do because he obviously has immense talent and vision. Then he squandered any and all good will by being a asshat to his bandmates and deceiving his fans and then apparently not putting in the practice to actually be able to pull off his songs live.

He fixes those two things are just adopts a solo career with no tours then he is fine, imo.


----------



## ArtHam

Double A said:


> This is the whole point. Anyone can create anything with a computer.



Anybody can create anything with pen and pencil, too. Doesn't make everybody a great artist/composer.
I feel that skill is more admirable than technical skills as literally anybody who puts the time in can play anything, look at the whole generation of youtube shredders covering songs. Nothing impressive about that for me. There's probably thousands of guitar players who are as technically proficient as Petrucci and can play all his stuff, but that possess none of the talent to write or come up with that stuff. I'm sure there's something that separates everybody on this forum (the amateurs) from the people who do it for real. And that will always be material. With DJ's still being a huge thing and getting a lot of recognition for essentially just pressing play it's safe to say most people don't care whether something is really played or not. 
In the end I don't think Al is going to give a rat's ass about what you think. Looks like there are a lot of people waiting for another album and seeing how well that last Rings Of Saturn thing did it doesn't look like it hurt their career too much. Maybe there really is no such thing as bad publicity. And for that matter Michael Keene hasn't been known for nailing his parts in recent year yet there's heaps of people waiting for a new record from him too!


----------



## Slunk Dragon

I'm not sure whether I should be shocked or not that there's this much conversation over Haarp again, but damn if it doesn't speak volumes about how polarizing he is.

The video is impressive, it looks a bit odd, but I don't think it's sped up. I'd believe Youtube doing weird things to the video, moreso. Youtube has such a history of messing up video and audio, quality-wise. I mean, you can hear Al hitting those strings acoustically, and it doesn't sound off at all. At least for me.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with him, again. xD


----------



## Esp Griffyn

It's embarrassing how willing people are to be fooled by this sort of thing. One look at the jittery movements and exaggerated spazzy face expressions and you can see how outlandishly doctored this is, but we still get the fanboi cries of "it's all in the filming!". 

If you were dogged by a reputation for a faker, you would think that you'd take all steps possible to avoid more accusations of impropriety. Unless of course, this was deliberately conceived in this fashion in order to drum up more interest. It's a shameful, if probably effective business plan; fake a video playthrough of an old song and get gullible people to buy your records. Total business plan.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

CGrant109 said:


> Offtopic but still relevant to this thread: does this guy have 2 strandbergs?
> 
> He used to use this one:
> http://www.metalinjection.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Al-Mumin-Varberg.jpg
> *drools*
> 
> this recent video of him he's using this one:
> http://i0.wp.com/www.metalinjection...Shot-2016-08-01-at-9.52.01-PM.png?fit=700,358
> 
> *drooools*


There is this thing called "switching pickups and removing a tone knob".

I remember when this video below first came out introducing the new Varberg model. (Going back and watching this, it is funny how Ola went from proudly advocating openness and transparency to pulling his licensing and creating complete, tight-gripped exclusivity in only four short years.)



And then here is the obviously faked video to show off Al's first Strandberg custom which none of us have seen him play outside of this edited footage.


----------



## 7 Strings of Hate

Esp Griffyn said:


> It's embarrassing how willing people are to be fooled by this sort of thing. One look at the jittery movements and exaggerated spazzy face expressions and you can see how outlandishly doctored this is, but we still get the fanboi cries of "it's all in the filming!".
> 
> If you were dogged by a reputation for a faker, you would think that you'd take all steps possible to avoid more accusations of impropriety. Unless of course, this was deliberately conceived in this fashion in order to drum up more interest. It's a shameful, if probably effective business plan; fake a video playthrough of an old song and get gullible people to buy your records. Total business plan.


----------



## Necropitated

Emperor Guillotine said:


> There is this thing called "switching pickups and removing a tone knob".
> 
> I remember when this video below first came out introducing the new Varberg model.
> 
> 
> 
> And then here is the obviously faked video to show off Al's first Strandberg custom which none of us have seen him play outside of this edited footage.




Actually that's Tosins Strandberg in that Strandberg video, not Als.


----------



## Slunk Dragon

Esp Griffyn said:


> It's embarrassing how willing people are to be fooled by this sort of thing. One look at the jittery movements and exaggerated spazzy face expressions and you can see how outlandishly doctored this is, but we still get the fanboi cries of "it's all in the filming!".
> 
> If you were dogged by a reputation for a faker, you would think that you'd take all steps possible to avoid more accusations of impropriety. Unless of course, this was deliberately conceived in this fashion in order to drum up more interest. It's a shameful, if probably effective business plan; fake a video playthrough of an old song and get gullible people to buy your records. Total business plan.



You must be a hoot at birthday parties, I love your positive attitude, friend.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Necropitated said:


> Actually that's Tosins Strandberg in that Strandberg video, not Als.


That is not Tosin's Strandberg, dude. Not enough strings for Tosin.

#16 is Al's.
https://strandbergguitars.com/portfolio_page/16-demo/

#8 is Tosin's. (Well, one of his. #17 is his too.)
https://strandbergguitars.com/portfolio_page/8-tosin-abasi-guitar/


----------



## Necropitated

Emperor Guillotine said:


> That is not Tosin's Strandberg, dude. Not enough strings for Tosin.
> 
> #16 is Al's.
> https://strandbergguitars.com/portfolio_page/16-demo/
> 
> #8 is Tosin's. (Well, one of his. #17 is his too.)
> https://strandbergguitars.com/portfolio_page/8-tosin-abasi-guitar/



He either borrowed it or bought it from Tosin or it was built for Tosin. Can't remember....it's been a few years now since he told me. 
The text says it was aquired by Al Mu'min, so it wasn't built for him.


----------



## Opion

Wow, is time really flying by that fast? He's been gone for 4 years?  

That being said, I really enjoyed THM's first album and it's a shame about the whole sped-up thing. It even sucks because I think I remember Misha or Nolly was one of the ones who hinted to it at the height of the controversy. I wonder how he'll bounce back from that. Hopefully if this video is indication, he looks to be playing his sh*t right and fast, albeit a tad jumpy looking. Fingers crossed.


----------



## CGrant109

Emperor Guillotine said:


> There is this thing called "switching pickups and removing a tone knob".



No need to respond like that. You are right though.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Opion said:


> It even sucks because I think I remember Misha or Nolly was one of the ones who hinted to it at the height of the controversy.


This video has so many easter eggs aimed at Al in it.



"...a lot of you guys have been HAARP-ing on me to get on this song..."

"...but I don't usually HALF-TIME to do this..."

"...you know wha-MU'MIN..."

"...FAGDAD tuning..."

And not to mention the guitar is tuned so that the riff from "Scarlet" sounds like a HAARP riff in tonality.


----------



## Wildebeest

That Bulb video is hilarious, I've never seen it before.


----------



## jeremyb

ROFL!!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Man I watched that video so much, but never caught onto the HAARP digs. That's ....ing gold, Jerry.


----------



## Nlelith

Just when I thought that this thread isn't going to offer anything interesting anymore... Misha's video made my day.


----------



## xCaptainx

hahahahah I didn't catch the references the first time. That's hilarious.


----------



## isispelican

the video description too!


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Opion said:


> It even sucks because I think I remember Misha or Nolly was one of the ones who hinted to it at the height of the controversy



Well Al did say that it was Nolly who showed him how to record like that to begin with since the first Periphery record had parts done that way.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Emperor Guillotine said:


> This video has so many easter eggs aimed at Al in it.
> 
> 
> 
> "...a lot of you guys have been HAARP-ing on me to get on this song..."
> 
> "...but I don't usually HALF-TIME to do this..."
> 
> "...you know wha-MU'MIN..."
> 
> "...FAGDAD tuning..."
> 
> And not to mention the guitar is tuned so that the riff from "Scarlet" sounds like a HAARP riff in tonality.


----------



## hairychris

coreysMonster said:


> Obligatory Anchorhead mention.
> 
> 
> 
> And yes they play live in Star Wars costumes.




Yep, seen them live too. Wicked band (or rather side project of the prog band Linear Sphere).

10 Internet points if you can name the connection between Anchorhead and The Haarp Machine.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Thank you, thank you.







Surely, I'm not the only one on here who noticed all those, right?



isispelican said:


> the video description too!


I never clicked on the video to open it in a new tab or new window, so I didn't see the description.

"Since ALL MY BAND MEMBERS LEFT ME here at the apt, I figured I might as well DISCLOSE how to play Scarlet for to show you guys!"


----------



## sharedEQ

Lorcan Ward said:


> Well Al did say that it was Nolly who showed him how to record like that to begin with since the first Periphery record had parts done that way.



From the outside, this controversy seems like a bunch of Periphery fans following bulb's lead. I read the original thread and from the perspective of someone who is not a fan of either (but appreciates their work), and AM came off as more professional.

I hate to see something like this. An established and successful act attacking a less established one for using a technique that they also used. This would be like Taylor Swift attacking some local singer/songwriter for using autotune. I cant remember ever seeing anything like this before; usually its the up and coming band that attacks the successful one.

Maybe the whole controversy stems from the fact that IF the Haarp guitar parts are legit, it means he is the better guitarist. This threatens the status quo and therefore people attack AM.

Playing at that level is like an olympic sport. I know that some of the most challenging pieces I've learned start to fall apart if I haven't played them in a while. Having an entire set of challenging songs, played to perfection can take many months of 6 hour day's practice to pull off. Its like training for a marathon.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

sharedEQ said:


> Maybe the whole controversy stems from...



I think most of the controversy stems from how Al is supposedly a really, really difficult person to deal with. All the sound guys, his band members, bands he's toured with, none of them ever had anything positive to say about him. 

So while people like Misha may have been able to look the other way with the manufactured recording, the guy's attitude might have pushed them into making it an issue. Especially since he tried passing off his playing as legit, which I'll admit as a fan of Haarp to be a pretty childish thing to do. I've seen bands that when asked why they don't play X song on stage, they aren't really ashamed to answer back with "because we can't," it's really only a bad thing to admit if you make it one.


----------



## sharedEQ

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I think most of the controversy stems from how Al is *supposedly* a really, really difficult person to deal with. All the sound guys, his band members, bands he's toured with, none of them ever had anything positive to say about him.



I've never met him so I won't spread this kind of gossip.

Yngwie F***** Malmsteen was supposedly a dick too. I think what happens is that a type-A, dedicated, driven person when put in the spotlight never looks good.


----------



## musicaldeath

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I've seen bands that when asked why they don't play X song on stage, they aren't really ashamed to answer back with "because we can't," it's really only a bad thing to admit if you make it one.



A good example of this was Children of Bodom with the song Trashed, Lost and Strungout. Always seemed like it would have been a perfect song for a live situation, but they said in rehearsal they just couldn't get it together. I get that that was more on a band level and not down to one person (maybe?) but they were open about it.

FWIW if THM really has a chance at making a solid comeback, they will need to play live - and well at that. Before that happens, the videos, edited or not, don't count for anything other than to drum up publicity, in which it has succeeded greatly.

Now get a band together and get out and play.


----------



## bostjan

From my point of view, there are a lot of great bedroom players (many on this board, incidentally) who could have made a lot more of their 15 seconds of fame, had they been given a chance equal to this. Also, I'd be more eager to throw my support toward people who have a good personality and work ethic, all else being equal.


----------



## Zalbu

Esp Griffyn said:


> It's embarrassing how willing people are to be fooled by this sort of thing. One look at the jittery movements and exaggerated spazzy face expressions and you can see how outlandishly doctored this is, but we still get the fanboi cries of "it's all in the filming!".


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p



> In general, 24 frames-per-second video has more trouble with fast camera motion than other, higher frame rates, sometimes showing a "strobe" or "choppy" motion, just like 24 frame/s film will if shot as if it is video, without slower camera panning & zooming motion. It is therefore not well-suited for programming requiring spontaneous camera action or "reality" camerawork.



You can believe whatever you want about him making it look fake on purpose or not, doesn't change the fact that it is in the filming which any person who knows the basics of videography can tell you.


----------



## Jonathan20022

^^^^^


----------



## Sunyata

sharedEQ said:


> From the outside, this controversy seems like a bunch of Periphery fans following bulb's lead. I read the original thread and from the perspective of someone who is not a fan of either (but appreciates their work), and AM came off as more professional.
> 
> I hate to see something like this. An established and successful act attacking a less established one for using a technique that they also used. This would be like Taylor Swift attacking some local singer/songwriter for using autotune. I cant remember ever seeing anything like this before; usually its the up and coming band that attacks the successful one.
> 
> Maybe the whole controversy stems from the fact that IF the Haarp guitar parts are legit, it means he is the better guitarist. This threatens the status quo and therefore people attack AM.
> 
> Playing at that level is like an olympic sport. I know that some of the most challenging pieces I've learned start to fall apart if I haven't played them in a while. Having an entire set of challenging songs, played to perfection can take many months of 6 hour day's practice to pull off. Its like training for a marathon.



Took a long time for someone to be reasonable about this. The idea that anyone in this genre of music has the audacity to talk sh-t about half-speed recording is insane. 

When Misha did this in the HAARP thread a long time ago, it was a similar situation. Everyone riding his d--k, not seeing the hypocrisy and pettiness. Honestly, the scarlet video is funny, but the hostility is too overblown and silly. When you live in a glass house of punched-in notes, VSTs, autotune, and half-speed recording, you shouldn't throw stones.

Also, The Disclosure was objectively better than any Periphery album.


----------



## anomynous

K.


----------



## Draceius

Sunyata said:


> Also, The Disclosure was objectively better than any Periphery album.



Mate do you know what objectively means.


----------



## Edika

Finally managed to see the video and it didn't look that jittery or his facial expressions show anything unusual, aside from someone concentrating hard to play an obviously difficult song. The song itself didn't do much for me but the combination of guitar sound quality and several notes flying around all over the place didn't help me concentrate enough. The only jab I can make is what's with Obi One Kenobi robe? Is being locked in your house for 4 years learning your material elevates you to Jedi knight status?

Concerning the whole composition vs performance debate my thoughts on this are if you're a composer and not a performer you can hire performers to execute your music and be proud. If you want the glory of a performer then practice your ass off to be a performer. Since we're talking about Tech Death I assume recognition and reputation are the main currency you'll be rewarded with as I don't think anyone has gotten rich from the specific genre. Taking short cuts will get you there but sooner or later the truth will come out .


----------



## ArtDecade

Sunyata said:


> Also, The Disclosure was *objectively* better than any Periphery album.


----------



## Sunyata

Yes, i meant objectively. As in not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Sunyata said:


> Yes, i meant objectively. As in not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.





via Imgflip Meme Generator


----------



## ArtDecade

You can't have an objective opinion measuring one's personal enjoyment of music.


----------



## Beefmuffin

My 2 cents, since everyone and their mom is sharing theirs:

I don't care how you make an album; half speed, playing one note at a time, non of that matters to me and really shouldn't matter to anyone. BUT, if you have intentions of playing those songs live, like they attempted to, then you better be able to do it or pay someone to do it for you. And if you can't play an instrument up to your conducting standards, don't post a faked video of you doing it. And for all those saying that's not a big deal, if it wasn't, than ol Lucas Mann would have a solo album right now, because say what you want, that kid can write music. But him faking that video and that getting out RUINED him...as well as his douchebag attitude. Couldn't even raise 10k. People get $40,000 dollars donated to them, just to make a GD Potato Salad. 

Now onto the video at hand. I don't believe it's faked but I can see why people would think that, especially given this dude's past. But if the dude can finally play his music physically, even if it is 3 years later, good for him. That's more than most would do in his situation. Practicing to get up to that level is no joke and takes a ridiculous amount of time and determination. But I wouldn't thrash people on here who believe it's faked, they have a right to remain skeptical due to past experiences.


----------



## VigilSerus

Sunyata said:


> Yes, i meant objectively. As in not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.




"My art is objectively better than your art. Fvck your feelings, this is FACT."


----------



## bostjan

Sunyata said:


> Yes, i meant objectively. As in not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.



Periphery's debut album sold nearly 20k copies, last I was aware. Disclosure sold a little over 2k copies, according to Sumerian records. That's about as close to objective as you can get, and it stands starkly contrary to your statement. But then again, when we are talking about which is "better," based on "facts," but not specifying how it's "better," I cannot disagree with you. Maybe Disclosure CD has a higher tensile strength or is able to bounce to a higher height, or maybe it's better at the decathlon.


----------



## sakeido

bostjan said:


> Periphery's debut album sold nearly 20k copies, last I was aware. Disclosure sold a little over 2k copies, according to Sumerian records. That's about as close to objective as you can get, and it stands starkly contrary to your statement. But then again, when we are talking about which is "better," based on "facts," but not specifying how it's "better," I cannot disagree with you. Maybe Disclosure CD has a higher tensile strength or is able to bounce to a higher height, or maybe it's better at the decathlon.



Disclosure doesn't have Spencer Sotelo on it, so it is objectively better


----------



## sharedEQ

nm


----------



## Sunyata

sakeido said:


> Disclosure doesn't have Spencer Sotelo on it, so it is objectively better



exactly


----------



## Zalbu

It's pretty telling when the people who are trying to look for flaws in the video can't even tell the difference between 25 and 60 FPS. What's even left to discuss? Either he gets a band together or not and starts playing live, and we can go back to analyzing the live footage with a microscope.


----------



## bostjan

sakeido said:


> Disclosure doesn't have Spencer Sotelo on it, so it is objectively better



Neither do any of my albums...


----------



## Necropitated

I recorded a new one-take version of Lower The Populace, and since playing songs faster is my thing, I tried it on LTP. Not perfect but I'm not a machine.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

^I think there's a problem with video embedding because of the site changes so you need to post the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo-U7pEGK5k

Insane as always! Al needs to get you on board again.


----------



## Necropitated

Lorcan Ward said:


> ^I think there's a problem with video embedding because of the site changes so you need to post the link
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo-U7pEGK5k
> 
> Insane as always! Al needs to get you on board again.



Really? I can watch it on the board like every other video.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Necropitated said:


> Really? I can watch it on the board like every other video.



It's showing up on my phone now, sorry must just be safari or the version I'm using.


----------



## Triple7

All the videos on the board are black screens for me too.


----------



## Necropitated

Hm strange, not for me.
Well, then here's just the link to LTP 15% faster:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo-U7pEGK5k


----------



## mikernaut

Thats insane! Your vids always make me want to burn my guitars 

Some band really needs to give you a job!


----------



## avinu

Necropitated said:


> I recorded a new one-take version of Lower The Populace, and since playing songs faster is my thing, I tried it on LTP. Not perfect but I'm not a machine.




Holy christ man chill out. :0


----------



## coreysMonster

Necropitated said:


> I recorded a new one-take version of Lower The Populace, and since playing songs faster is my thing, I tried it on LTP. Not perfect but I'm not a machine.




Hurr durr clearly sped up! I can tell by the looks of the frames! 
I kid you talented bastard, friggin amazing job! 


Also for people using Chrome, here's the link to the vid: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo-U7pEGK5k


----------



## musicaldeath

Necropitated said:


> Hm strange, not for me.
> Well, then here's just the link to LTP 15% faster:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jo-U7pEGK5k



Jesus F*cking Christ


----------



## Necropitated

musicaldeath said:


> Jesus F*cking Christ



If there's nothing left to practice, you just practice faster lol.


----------



## mikernaut

This kinda bugged me Kevin was trying to do the solo and the singer starts asking for water interrupting his flow. 
at 2:14 youtube being fussy.


----------



## Necropitated

Yeah, someone doesn't like me playing solos. Camera guy filming the audience in my solo. Well, at least it's funny.
at 1:58


----------



## mikernaut

HAHAHAHA


----------



## zerofocus

Al has released another track

I was never into Haarp when they were first around but I am digging this


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Some of those licks are so odd. I'd love if he did a guitar DVD/lessons or even made a tab book.


----------



## bloc

Ugh that guitar is so beautiful


----------



## Spicypickles

Ridiculous playing.


That tone is straight balls though.


----------



## Big_taco

zerofocus said:


> Al has released another track
> 
> I was never into Haarp when they were first around but I am digging this




This song is off of Disclosure. It's "Extension to one".


----------



## Thrashman

Can he ever post vids without fast forwarding to make himself seem faster?


----------



## Jonathan20022

Thrashman said:


> Can he ever post vids without fast forwarding to make himself seem faster?



Have you ever watched 50/60fps video content before?


----------



## narad

In all seriousness, can someone who knows more about this than I do (i.e., anyone) comment on whether or not that vid is edited to be faster/cleaner? That is some super clean playing, but he's caught flack for this before anyway so I'd like to know what I'm hearing.


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Poor guy could post a video and get it verified by engineers at NASA and people would still say that it's sped up


----------



## Jonathan20022

narad said:


> In all seriousness, can someone who knows more about this than I do (i.e., anyone) comment on whether or not that vid is edited to be faster/cleaner? That is some super clean playing, but he's caught flack for this before anyway so I'd like to know what I'm hearing.



It's not edited in the manner people are suggesting it is, besides color grading that is a one take video shot at proper speed.

Set it to 480p on youtube and it'll look more familiar to most people's eyes who haven't adjusted to 50/60fps footage.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

narad said:


> In all seriousness, can someone who knows more about this than I do (i.e., anyone) comment on whether or not that vid is edited to be faster/cleaner? That is some super clean playing, but he's caught flack for this before anyway so I'd like to know what I'm hearing.



Most likely a really really tight playalong over a recorded track(like every play through video). Or that's a live take with some editing if there was any mistakes. Stops and unwanted noise edited out of course since guitars are noisy instruments even without gain. Nobody is that clean. 



Thrashman said:


> Can he ever post vids without fast forwarding to make himself seem faster?



If you genuinely think that's sped up you need to see an ophthalmologist or youve never watched a shed/techy guitar video before. Or you need a better internet connection/monitor etc


----------



## Thrashman

Yeah I'm familiar with higher fps videos, and that last one is clearly edited.


----------



## sakeido

Thrashman said:


> Yeah I'm familiar with higher fps videos, and that last one is clearly edited.



You are completely, entirely wrong bud

like holy .... do you think he spent the last 3 years practicing how to move in slow motion so he can do fast forward guitar videos, instead of actually just practicing the songs?


----------



## Jonathan20022

Please point out what's so obvious about the edit that others aren't seeing, instead of just stating how it's obviously fake


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Thrashman said:


> Yeah I'm familiar with higher fps videos, and that last one is clearly edited.



No. Its not.


----------



## coreysMonster

Thrashman said:


> Yeah I'm familiar with higher fps videos, and that last one is clearly edited.


This is clearly a fake post. It's obviously a fever dream edited by Glorax the Mind Stealer to look like a post.


----------



## gunch

Looks alright to me.

I'm most likely (definitely) stupid but the tone gave a pleasant, organic warmth to an already nice sounding song

All drama aside he writes interesting music and I look forward to some new material from him.


----------



## Zalbu

Dude posts a video with low framerate, people complain about it being choppy. He posts a video with high framerate and it's apparently "too fast". Please, stop commenting about if video looks "fake" or not if you've never even held a proper DSLR/video camera


----------



## downburst82

Ya his recent videos look fine, he's obviously taken some time to get his chops up...but im not really impressed that he can finally play the stuff he released 4 years ago properly.


----------



## StevenC

The video is clearly slowed down.


----------



## Cnev

I couldn't care less whether he speeds his .... up or not. It's all boring as hell. But in all seriousness, this video is clearly gay.


----------



## sakeido

The video is clearly summed using four parallel projections of Al from four closely entangled realities, and they just play every fourth note. So really each one is playing 100% speed, but only 25% of the notes. 

The dead giveaway is the strange cycling in his facial expressions around the 55 second mark. That's the singularity temporarily losing full control, and oscillating between the neighboring astral planes as a result. 

This is an interesting approach to tech metal but it clearly is borderline for a playthrough video. No way this is going to fly live. .... this guy, .... this band, and 9/11 was an inside job


----------



## s2k9k

Legit


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

silverabyss said:


> Looks alright to me.
> 
> I'm most likely (definitely) stupid but the tone gave a pleasant, organic warmth to an already nice sounding song
> 
> All drama aside he writes interesting music and I look forward to some new material from him.


I'm with ya. The tone sounded sort of CHON-ish which was pretty cool and it worked really well for the riff at the end.

There's no doubt that Al can actually play his own music now and if anyone thinks that newest video was sped up then they clearly need their eyes checked.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

downburst82 said:


> Ya his recent videos look fine, he's obviously taken some time to get his chops up...but im not really impressed that he can finally play the stuff he released 4 years ago properly.



He was doing playthroughs just fine before the album came out.


----------



## noUser01

I've got plenty of time behind a camera, and even I'll say aspects of his first playthrough look very odd at specific points in the video for brief moments of time. I'm not at all saying that I believe anything here is faked, I don't believe that at all, just saying as someone who has dealt with many different frame rates and shutter speeds that I understand why people are raising questions as some of the movements do look rather odd.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

downburst82 said:


> Ya his recent videos look fine, he's obviously taken some time to get his chops up...but im not really impressed that he can finally play the stuff he released 4 years ago properly.


Yeah. Even Rings of Saturn has him beat as far as time taken to actually learn how to play their material.


----------



## xwmucradiox

sakeido said:


> You are completely, entirely wrong bud
> 
> like holy .... do you think he spent the last 3 years practicing how to move in slow motion so he can do fast forward guitar videos, instead of actually just practicing the songs?



This. Anyone who claims a video is altered to seem faster should try playing 30 seconds of music slow on camera and then speeding it up to see how insanely obvious it would be. Watch body movements and facial expressions any time you think something is sped up and you will immediately see they aren't.


----------



## BouhZik

Jonathan20022 said:


> Have you ever watched 50/60fps video content before?



but why doing 50/60fps vids when you already have been "suspected" to sped up performances? I mean, the guy uses multiple high end guitars, vids are high res, but low fps? it's adding suspicion over suspicion!! 

the guy clearly have the means to release vids that nobody could argue about. just looking the last video with the white shirt, now it looks legit. about time...


----------



## drmosh

BouhZik said:


> but why doing 50/60fps vids when you already have been "suspected" to sped up performances? I mean, the guy uses multiple high end guitars, vids are high res, but low fps? it's adding suspicion over suspicion!!
> 
> the guy clearly have the means to release vids that nobody could argue about. just looking the last video with the white shirt, now it looks legit. about time...



50/60fps is low? wut


----------



## Floppystrings

Thrashman said:


> Yeah I'm familiar with higher fps videos, and that last one is clearly edited.



What kind of monitors do you use? Serious question.


----------



## Jonathan20022

BouhZik said:


> but why doing 50/60fps vids when you already have been "suspected" to sped up performances? I mean, the guy uses multiple high end guitars, vids are high res, but low fps? it's adding suspicion over suspicion!!
> 
> the guy clearly have the means to release vids that nobody could argue about. just looking the last video with the white shirt, now it looks legit. about time...



My friend, I don't think you're understanding the concept of the frame rate. 50/60 is higher than just about every video you watch right now. Most of the content on youtube is in 24fps, most of the stuff you watch on television is in 24fps. 

When you film in 50/60fps, you do it because it offers a smoothness to motions and looks way more realistic in the sense that it's more accurate to what you would see with your own eyes. Another reason people shoot in 60, is because you can slow down the footage.

So, shooting in 50/60 is doing more for Al's authenticity than it is for the case of him faking his playing. Here's a video so you can visualize what frame rates do when they change it breaks it down pretty well.


----------



## Sikthness

the human eye can see ~1000 FPS


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Why are you guys posting and talking about music in a thread that's obviously supposed to be about frame rates? No need to go off topic about some random Youtube band.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Because it's completely relevant to the current conversation in the thread? And there's clearly people who aren't familiar with the terms being thrown around and knowing said information would allow people to make more informed opinions about what they're looking at?

I dunno, guess not  thanks for contributing.


----------



## narad

Sikthness said:


> the human eye can see ~1000 FPS



Not really.


----------



## bhakan

Why are we still arguing about this? If we have a forum member, who was in the band for a time and has played with Al in person, who says the video looks and sounds like how he played in person, what's more likely, that since that practice, Al has gotten worse, can no longer play the songs, and released a painstaking edited video to trick us, or that he practiced and can play the songs now? I get that we're all skeptical but at this rate we're going to have to get out our tin foil hats soon.

For reference:


Necropitated said:


> About the video being sped up: the playing doesn't look sped up or cheated to me. I've played with him 3 times and it looks legit. A few things about that. First off, it's not a direct recording, unlike that infamous The Escapist Notion video, so some of the sloppiness, that's actually natural since we are not machines (lol), is not audible. His guitar might also be a pre-recorded track we're hearing. He cheated before, so it might be possible. The playing still looks legit to me. He could play the stuff when we rehearsed, though of course not as tight as he made everyone believe with those cheated videos and recordings. No one is that tight. But he could play it. Since I had a few occasions playing with him close-up, I have to say , he has a weird technique. He's not always playing alternate picking but he's doing a lot of down-strokes, that's why it always looks so strange. He has a lot of "jumping" movements because of that. I play most of it with strict alternate-picking but often starting with an upstroke to make it easier.
> That's why his playing might look unnatural....well it actually does.


----------



## Zalbu

bhakan said:


> Why are we still arguing about this?


Because we're on Sevenstring and since Misha took the piss out of Al then critical thinking kinda goes out the window at that point


----------



## coreysMonster

Sikthness said:


> the human eye can see ~1000 FPS


My eyes see at twice the speed of a normal man's.


----------



## StevenC

Sikthness said:


> the human eye can see ~1000 FPS



[citation needed]


----------



## bostjan

Sikthness said:


> the human eye can see ~1000 FPS



The question "How many fps can the human eye perceive?" could have a lot of answers, depending on methodology. For instance, it is much easier to detect high contrast at a higher frame rate than low contrast, and there is also some interesting dependence upon the size of the image and the sharpness of the image, but in absolutely no case is human optical perception approaching 100 fps.

Also, this thread is full of win, and also full of WTH.


----------



## Fiction

Al's released the guitar transcription for Disclosure;

http://thehaarpmachineband.bigcartel.com/

I wonder if it will have the gp5 files he used to record the album?*

*joke


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Sikthness

im a scientist thats my citation.


----------



## narad

Sikthness said:


> im a scientist thats my citation.



"im a scientist thats my citation." -- no scientist ever.


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> "im a scientist thats my citation." -- no scientist ever.



I miss likes.


----------



## drmosh

narad said:


> "im a scientist thats my citation." -- no scientist ever.



....e argument stopped with class, top marks


----------



## vent187

Pretty sure the part where he talks is sped up. No man can walk and talk this fast.

Seriously though, can't wait for the new material!


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Awesome!


----------



## bostjan

narad said:


> "im a scientist thats my citation." -- no scientist ever.



Maybe this user is really Gene Ray. (If you don't know who that is, do a google search for "Time Cube Theory." Ray used Time Cube to prove that there were 96 hours in a day, because there are 24 hours in a day, but there are four parts of the day, so, because 4 times 24 is 96, there are 96 hours in a day, and other very nice little logical feats.  )


----------



## Wildebeest

Soooo sick. Too excited for this. Sounds like if the aliens from Galaga made a record.


----------



## anomynous

wonder what will release first: This, Necrophagist, or Corelia?


----------



## bostjan

anomynous said:


> wonder what will release first: This, Necrophagist, or Corelia?



Did I miss something? Was there some indication that there was going to be a new release? I thought these were just videos of old songs.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

bostjan said:


> Did I miss something? Was there some indication that there was going to be a new release? I thought these were just videos of old songs.


Al says that there will be a new release. Then some Rings of Saturn ripoff, punched in note-for-note, Galaga-inspired bullsh*t starts playing.



vent187 said:


> Pretty sure the part where he talks is sped up. No man can walk and talk this fast.
> 
> Seriously though, can't wait for the new material!


----------



## QuantumCybin

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Al says that there will be a new release. Then some Rings of Saturn ripoff, punched in note-for-note, Galaga-inspired bullsh*t starts playing.


----------



## bostjan

I tried, the other day, to record a song one note at a time, and it was prohibitively time consuming. I'd bet that if I spent more money on software, though, I could combine sampling, pitch shifting, punching in and out, guitar tab pro, and slowing down recording, to come up with some pretty believable recordings.


----------



## Wildebeest

bostjan said:


> I tried, the other day, to record a song one note at a time, and it was prohibitively time consuming. I'd bet that if I spent more money on software, though, I could combine sampling, pitch shifting, punching in and out, guitar tab pro, and slowing down recording, to come up with some pretty believable recordings.


I've messed around with it. It's tedious. I try recording the notes I want first separately, then I go and chop it up. I don't really record my metal songs as I'm in a rock band.


I bought the tabs, it's very annoying when you aren't immediately send your digital downloads. Big Cartel is slow with everything...


----------



## mikernaut

Yeah, that was somewhat annoying. I bought the Tabs last night after work and was hoping to start checking them out. Didn't get them till this morning. 

Eager to hear what the new material will sound like though.


----------



## vinniemallet

Nothing against recording note a note as long he can play his stuff. And he proved he can play his stuff. He just posted a recent playthrough and it was pretty solid. The first tour they had I know he did a few mistakes but he started a band from scratch, they got signed to Sumerian and he started playing big shows without coming from smaller/amateur shows, it's not that easy. Can't wait for the new album!


----------



## Necropitated

I hope that the tabs are better than what I got when I auditioned haha


----------



## Wildebeest

Necropitated said:


> I hope that the tabs are better than what I got when I auditioned haha



Lol they look pretty good to me. I will have a go at them when I get home and report back.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

anomynous said:


> wonder what will release first: This, Necrophagist, or Corelia?



A tight race for sure. The new Tool album may be in the running too.


----------



## Simic




----------



## coreysMonster

Nice green screen / video editing / hired crowd / fake stage / speedup there. 

Jeez if this guy put as much time into practicing as he did into faking these videos he'd actually be able to play that fast.


----------



## wannabguitarist

coreysMonster said:


> Nice green screen / video editing / hired crowd / fake stage / speedup there.
> 
> Jeez if this guy put as much time into practicing as he did into faking these videos he'd actually be able to play that fast.


----------



## bloc

OMGGGG Varberg fixed bridge 6 string production model fookin' FINALLY. I have been waiting so long.

If it looks like the one in the video omgggggg


----------



## StevenC




----------



## Lorcan Ward

Awesome to finally hear some new music. The vocals are a huge part of THM for me so looking forward to hearing who is singing on this album, unless its instrumental.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

I hope its instrumental, the singing is why I didn't listen to the last album


----------



## wannabguitarist

StevenC said:


>




This is really good, like really f.cking good


----------



## DropBIsKing

StevenC said:


>



Oh my lord this is ....ing good.


----------



## anomynous

If this even comes out before The Faceless......


----------



## sakeido

Hoping they get the old vocalist back. The world has got plenty enough instrumental note salad bands and we really, really don't need any more. Awesome clean vox on tech death was such a breath of fresh air.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Lorcan Ward said:


> Awesome to finally hear some new music. The vocals are a huge part of THM for me so looking forward to hearing who is singing on this album, unless its instrumental.



For real, I think I like this more than most of what was on Disclosure. That piano is such a great addition. I'm kind of disappointed because I know we're all but guaranteed to not have Mike again and I think he did a killer job on the last album, but also a bit excited to see if we get someone that fits even better. 

Even if it stays an instrumental release, seems like the writing has enough substance to stand on it's own. I'm excited.


----------



## gunch

Alright!


----------



## Mathemagician

I don't mind screaming with signing. But even though I'm just under 30, I generally prefer singing on my metal. if they have clean singing I'm on board. That track was catchy AF imo.


----------



## HumanFuseBen

There's some cool layering of the guitar parts and neat harmonies in that new song that was posted above, but... c'mon man, it would sound better if it wasn't edited to death. In my opinion, of course; it seems like a lot of people want this inhumanly perfect thing going on with their metal production, but myself, i don't think there's anything cooler than sounding human.


----------



## WishIwasfinnish

This song is really sick and I think the editing is what makes it unique. I love the lightly distorted guitar tone. I don't even care if he's really playing it in the video, as long as he can eventually play it live...but this is great stuff


----------



## inaudio

HumanFuseBen said:


> There's some cool layering of the guitar parts and neat harmonies in that new song that was posted above, but... c'mon man, it would sound better if it wasn't edited to death. In my opinion, of course; it seems like a lot of people want this inhumanly perfect thing going on with their metal production, but myself, i don't think there's anything cooler than sounding human.



I agree with Uncle Ben. It sounds like Al's stepdad edited this one.


----------



## cwhitey2

HumanFuseBen said:


> There's some cool layering of the guitar parts and neat harmonies in that new song that was posted above, but... c'mon man, it would sound better if it wasn't edited to death. In my opinion, of course; it seems like a lot of people want this inhumanly perfect thing going on with their metal production, but myself, i don't think there's anything cooler than* sounding human.*



That's why I love metal...and not EDM.


----------



## Cloudy

This is pretty good, Im also in the "I hope its instrumental" boat. THMs instrumentals are solid and vocals kill a ton of metal bands for me


----------



## Big_taco

HumanFuseBen said:


> There's some cool layering of the guitar parts and neat harmonies in that new song that was posted above, but... c'mon man, it would sound better if it wasn't edited to death. In my opinion, of course; it seems like a lot of people want this inhumanly perfect thing going on with their metal production, but myself, i don't think there's anything cooler than sounding human.



THIS! There's some cool stuff going on in there but it almost hurts my ear to listen to it because of the inhuman edits. Figured it might try a more natural sound considering how much .... he's got over the years about that kinda thing.


----------



## bhakan

I actually like the edited sound. I feel like that's sort of part of The HAARP Machine's aesthetic, its gives it a sort of futuristic, mechanical feel. 

I generally dislike the recent trend of super polished, inhuman metal production, but this goes far enough to feel like a stylistic choice. For my tastes, lot of modern metal recently has fallen into this weird middle ground where it's meant to sound natural, but the mix is super ridiculously polished and there's no "edge" to it. I sort of like it when a the production has some sort of overall "vibe" to it, whether it be something that's just raw and disgusting like Nails or something that's futuristic and mechanical sounding like this.


----------



## GenghisCoyne

sakeido said:


> Awesome clean vox



There is no such animal


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

bhakan said:


> I actually like the edited sound. I feel like that's sort of part of The HAARP Machine's aesthetic, its gives it a sort of futuristic, mechanical feel.
> 
> I generally dislike the recent trend of super polished, inhuman metal production, but this goes far enough to feel like a stylistic choice. For my tastes, lot of modern metal recently has fallen into this weird middle ground where it's meant to sound natural, but the mix is super ridiculously polished and there's no "edge" to it. I sort of like it when a the production has some sort of overall "vibe" to it, whether it be something that's just raw and disgusting like Nails or something that's futuristic and mechanical sounding like this.



This. I always liked it. It always seemed to me that the point of recording in a studio is to get everything as close to perfect as possible. As long as you don't go into a show expecting everything to be 100% on point and pitch perfect the way it is in the studio, sounds like a good time for everyone.


----------



## sakeido

GenghisCoyne said:


> There is no such animal



wow, okay buddy.


----------



## TheDandy

Any word on the quality of the tabs Al released?


----------



## RoRo56

Was thinking to myself that HAARP were supposed to play at the Techfest all-dayer on Saturday and went to look for footage. According to Simon Garrod (the organiser) they had to cancel last minute, as "the band is clearly not ready for live shows." According to Dan Thornton of Novena he had been working with Al as the second guitarist in HAARP but was abruptly fired for seemingly no reason.


As someone who absolutely loves the music that this guy makes it really makes you wonder how or why he's such an asshat. I'm disappointed, but not surprised at all.


----------



## lewis

RoRo56 said:


> Was thinking to myself that HAARP were supposed to play at the Techfest all-dayer on Saturday and went to look for footage. According to Simon Garrod (the organiser) they had to cancel last minute, as "the band is clearly not ready for live shows." According to Dan Thornton of Novena he had been working with Al as the second guitarist in HAARP but was abruptly fired for seemingly no reason.
> 
> 
> As someone who absolutely loves the music that this guy makes it really makes you wonder how or why he's such an asshat. I'm disappointed, but not surprised at all.


absolutely this!!!

I actually know the session drummer they recruited to play the Techfest show. He is abit of a sellout type guy so just joins whatever act for gigs. Fair enough not my place to judge at all, but I wouldnt join this band even if someone paid me alot and it seems he couldnt really see the problem around the band or this dude.

Self entitled weiner. He is clearly a total douchebag. With one of the worst publicized band attitudes I can remember hearing/reading. Certainly UK based anyhow. And to be quite honest, bands with members like that do not deserve any success and to play great festival shows etc. I hope they disappear for ever and we never have to see or hear of him and his BS again.
Yes the music is great so lets hope that aspect carries on in other bands without him.


----------



## Necropitated

Can confirm the canceled show(s). Weird seeing bands not giving statements about canceled shows anymore....looking at The Faceless.


----------



## anomynous

Al Mu'min is a joke.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

So both Techfest headliners cancelled without a statement?

So their guitarist was kicked out for no reason and the bassist left yesterday after Al cancelled their techfest appearances. Back to square one for The Haarp Machine again.


----------



## vilk

I can't hear the guy's name without imagining


----------



## JustMac

TheDandy said:


> Any word on the quality of the tabs Al released?




Where!? I want it, if only to be depressed by how far beyond my ability it is


----------



## gunch

As much as I like Mu'min's writing style I wish Sumerian would just drop these clowns, surely they don't appreciate how all this junk is making them look as a label


----------



## downburst82

JustMac said:


> Where!? I want it, if only to be depressed by how far beyond my ability it is


Dont worry they are beyong Al's ability too...


----------



## Bloody_Inferno

downburst82 said:


> Dont worry they are beyong Al's ability too...


----------



## Kaff

Haven't followed the drama within the bands history, but enjoyed Disclosure very much! As for Al's playing it seems pretty tight these days. Hope there's more music coming from THM


----------



## CGrant109

Any word on who was playing with him in the new line up? Looks like everyone quit agaiin?


----------



## lewis

CGrant109 said:


> Any word on who was playing with him in the new line up? Looks like everyone quit agaiin?


i personally know the dude who was scheduled to drum for them at tech fest. Just a good session drummer. A relative no name as alot of session musicians are sadly.


----------



## DanThornton01

RoRo56 said:


> According to Dan Thornton of Novena he had been working with Al as the second guitarist in HAARP but was abruptly fired for seemingly no reason.



This is true. I had been working with Al since September/October last year after auditioning in August. However on the 5th of June, he falsely accused me of anabolic steroid usage via e-mail and said that he had "zero tolerance towards it". Yep, you read that right. I have absolutely no idea where he got this notion from, but its complete bollocks and I am 100% confident that it was just some wet excuse to bin me for some other reason that he wasn't man enough to confront me on. I phoned, texted, and e-mailed him multiple times that day to discuss the issue, but he was too cowardly to respond.
He also took the other members back down to 'the auditioning stage' - revoking their already established membership within the project. Yet again, for absolutely no reason, after literally months of weekly rehearsals and album prep sessions with no problems whatsoever.

I spent upwards of three months learning the first album, and learnt a new song in the back of a van in 7 days on tour going round Europe with my other band. I put a great deal of money, time, effort and energy into HAARP, only to have it pointlessly ripped away on the back of a baseless accusation.

I can honestly say, that for the duration that I worked with Al in rehearsing the material and helping to find and audition the other members, he was an absolute pleasure to work with. Don't get me wrong, he's a strange guy, but nothing sinister or inherently 'dick-ish' was going on. There were a few traits that I picked up on about him, and there were a few times where he straight up lied to my face about how previous lineups had fallen apart (I found out he was lying by hearing multiple stories from ex-members and mutual acquaintances).

I was very much looking forward to being a part of HAARP, but clearly Al is not ready to let anyone else in the project full-time. As far as I'm concerned, Al's personality will mean that HAARP will never have a stable lineup, which is a crying shame. I have heard the completed demos of the entire second album, and it is absolutely groundbreaking material. IF the album ever gets released, it will change the face of modern metal, it is a PHENOMENAL record.




lewis said:


> absolutely this!!!
> He is abit of a sellout type guy so just joins whatever act for gigs.



An entirely unfair thing to say about one of the most skilled drummers in the UK. He took the job for the same reason as myself and the bassist; to improve his drumming capabilities, challenge himself, and to help expose himself as the incredible musician that he is.


----------



## lewis

lol you have blatantly and intentionally left out more of my post /\

taking things out of context is fun right?


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

lewis said:


> absolutely this!!! I actually know the session drummer they recruited to play the Techfest show. He is abit of a sellout type guy so just joins whatever act for gigs. Fair enough not my place to judge at all, but I wouldnt join this band even if someone paid me alot and it seems he couldnt really see the problem around the band or this dude. Self entitled weiner. He is clearly a total douchebag. With one of the worst publicized band attitudes I can remember hearing/reading. Certainly UK based anyhow. And to be quite honest, bands with members like that do not deserve any success and to play great festival shows etc. I hope they disappear for ever and we never have to see or hear of him and his BS again. Yes the music is great so lets hope that aspect carries on in other bands without him.


----------



## DanThornton01

lewis said:


> lol you have blatantly and intentionally left out more of my post /\
> 
> taking things out of context is fun right?



Even in context, its not a very nice thing to say about someone is it? haha


----------



## lewis

you know i wasnt talking about the drummer beyond the not my place to judge line?

the self entitled weiner onwards was about the member of this basnd that always creates issues


----------



## DanThornton01

lewis said:


> you know i wasnt talking about the drummer beyond the not my place to judge line?
> 
> the self entitled weiner onwards was about the member of this basnd that always creates issues




Yes, I am aware.


----------



## lewis

DanThornton01 said:


> Yes, I am aware.


im incredibly close friends with a dude that has known him and been in bands with him for probably the last 10 years.
Tbh, my initial point is really not that far from the truth. Fine you think differently. Fair enough.

Lets leave it there?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I'm really sorry to hear that Dan. This is the third or fourth lineup he's gone through now after cancelling gigs in that way it may be the last. I had hoped Al was back on track with a new album coming soon but I'm not hopeful now.


----------



## gunch

What does steroid usage have to do with making music?


----------



## mikernaut

damn, at this rate The Faceless and Haarp Machine should just combine!, soo much drama.


----------



## ramses

DanThornton01 said:


> ... on the 5th of June, he [...] accused me of anabolic steroid usage via e-mail and said that he had "zero tolerance towards it" ...



LoL, whut!!??

If you are a troll, you at least made me laugh


----------



## Lorcan Ward

mikernaut said:


> damn, at this rate The Faceless and Haarp Machine should just combine!, soo much drama.



The worse thing is BOTH of those bands were due to headline UK techfest and both pulled out.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

DanThornton01 said:


> This is true. I had been working with Al since September/October last year after auditioning in August. However on the 5th of June, he falsely accused me of anabolic steroid usage via e-mail and said that he had "zero tolerance towards it". Yep, you read that right. I have absolutely no idea where he got this notion from, but its complete bollocks and I am 100% confident that it was just some wet excuse to bin me for some other reason that he wasn't man enough to confront me on. I phoned, texted, and e-mailed him multiple times that day to discuss the issue, but he was too cowardly to respond.
> He also took the other members back down to 'the auditioning stage' - revoking their already established membership within the project. Yet again, for absolutely no reason, after literally months of weekly rehearsals and album prep sessions with no problems whatsoever.
> 
> I spent upwards of three months learning the first album, and learnt a new song in the back of a van in 7 days on tour going round Europe with my other band. I put a great deal of money, time, effort and energy into HAARP, only to have it pointlessly ripped away on the back of a baseless accusation.
> 
> I can honestly say, that for the duration that I worked with Al in rehearsing the material and helping to find and audition the other members, he was an absolute pleasure to work with. Don't get me wrong, he's a strange guy, but nothing sinister or inherently 'dick-ish' was going on. There were a few traits that I picked up on about him, and there were a few times where he straight up lied to my face about how previous lineups had fallen apart (I found out he was lying by hearing multiple stories from ex-members and mutual acquaintances).
> 
> I was very much looking forward to being a part of HAARP, but clearly Al is not ready to let anyone else in the project full-time. As far as I'm concerned, Al's personality will mean that HAARP will never have a stable lineup, which is a crying shame. I have heard the completed demos of the entire second album, and it is absolutely groundbreaking material. IF the album ever gets released, it will change the face of modern metal, it is a PHENOMENAL record.




Yeah... I'm gonna need some kind of proof. I'm not saying I don't believe you because your description of Al seems to be what everyone says about him, but the steroid thing is odd.


----------



## hairychris

Is this still going on?

I know the bass player who was hit up for the first attempted "reform for a show" a few years back, maybe for the first Tech Fest - it was definitely a festival that they cancelled on. Apparently that was a shambles, with half the band (well, they were all session players) getting sacked or quitting after about 2 rehearsals.

Seems that things haven't changed!


----------



## vent187

Back again.


----------



## RoRo56

I wonder what stage of completion the album is at? It's been nearly 6 years since Disclosure was released


----------



## lewis

hahahahahahaha yeah sure 
hahaha


This arrogant douchebag should just disappear now.


----------



## StevenC

That was awesome!


----------



## Randy

Glad to finally hear some new material, although this particular song doesn't do anything for me.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Hahahahahahahaha!


----------



## Avedas

This MIDI track was better than the one I heard a couple years ago.


----------



## Zalbu

Pretty good track but the video mainly just reminded me of how sick the Varberg is.

I wonder what stupid logic people are going to use this time to claim that the video is fake? Is it fake because he used a green screen? Or have people just moved on to calling him a douchebag since the last video was released and people demonstrated that they don't understand how video frame rate works?


----------



## cwhitey2

Weaksauce.


----------



## bostjan

Zalbu said:


> Pretty good track but the video mainly just reminded me of how sick the Varberg is.
> 
> I wonder what stupid logic people are going to use this time to claim that the video is fake? Is it fake because he used a green screen? Or have people just moved on to calling him a douchebag since the last video was released and people demonstrated that they don't understand how video frame rate works?



The real question isn't which logic to prove this fake, it's "Why should anyone care?" There are nine thousand nine hundred ninety-nine other guitarists releasing "playthrough" videos of pantomimed guitar over pre-recorded audio, so what sets this apart?


----------



## Zalbu

bostjan said:


> The real question isn't which logic to prove this fake, it's "Why should anyone care?" There are nine thousand nine hundred ninety-nine other guitarists releasing "playthrough" videos of pantomimed guitar over pre-recorded audio, so what sets this apart?


I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's the music that makes people care about this particular play through video over the trillions of other play through videos


----------



## bostjan

Zalbu said:


> I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's the music that makes people care about this particular play through video over the trillions of other play through videos


Definitely sounds very similar to the music in most of those other videos to me.


----------



## Zalbu

bostjan said:


> Definitely sounds very similar to the music in most of those other videos to me.


Fortunately music is subjective which makes this discussion pointless. Have a good day!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

more likely it's because al muumu was like lucas mann and couldn't even play his own shit at full speed, and the internet never forgets or forgives.


----------



## Ralyks

Regardless of if he’s playing the music or not, the music in that clip is excellent and I’ll take more please.


----------



## Zalbu

KnightBrolaire said:


> more likely it's because al muumu was like lucas mann and couldn't even play his own shit at full speed, and the internet never forgets or forgives.


Nah, I'm fairly sure nobody outside of forum dwellers cares if he used to not be able to play his own stuff if he's learned how to play it since then. Look at the comments on the video, 99% of them are in support of him and 1% talks about how he's a douchebag, which is a valid topic to bring up but doesn't affect his music.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Love this track so much!!!! Those melodies are so catchy. If it had vocals/lyrics like Extension To One or Machine Over with Michael Semesky in vocals it would be perfection. 



bostjan said:


> There are nine thousand nine hundred ninety-nine other guitarists releasing "playthrough" videos of pantomimed guitar over pre-recorded audio, so what sets this apart?



Yeah everyone mimes to recorded audio for these kind of original tracks. Mime-along doesn't sound very cool though so people say play through. Its solely about the music, the guitar is just for visual entertainment to keep it interesting, you're not going to upload something with a ton of mistakes in it that doesn't get across what you're trying to achieve. 

If you've ever recorded a guitar video you'd understand how much of a pain it can be just to get the right angles and lighting, let alone playing well. In the words of Rick Graham "I don't sit around all day doing hundreds of takes, nobody has time for that s**t".


----------



## GunpointMetal

Zalbu said:


> Nah, I'm fairly sure nobody outside of forum dwellers cares if he used to not be able to play his own stuff if he's learned how to play it since then. Look at the comments on the video, 99% of them are in support of him and 1% talks about how he's a douchebag, which is a valid topic to bring up but doesn't affect his music.


Outside of forum dwellers, 99% of the population could give two shits about this guy's music anyways. It's alright music, its not gonna rewrite the book on tech death or virtuoso guitar playing or anything. Hopefully he can get a band together and actually tour again (even though it went SO WELL the last time), but it really does seem that he either has some sort of anxiety issues, control issues, or he really is just a cockknocker and can't keep musicians around.


----------



## bostjan

GunpointMetal said:


> Outside of forum dwellers, 99% of the population could give two shits about this guy's music anyways. It's alright music, its not gonna rewrite the book on tech death or virtuoso guitar playing or anything. Hopefully he can get a band together and actually tour again (even though it went SO WELL the last time), but it really does seem that he either has some sort of anxiety issues, control issues, or he really is just a cockknocker and can't keep musicians around.



The way I see it, Disclosure came out over five years ago. At that time, this kind of music was fairly uncommon. I wouldn't even go so far as to call it unique, though, because there were contemporaries that sounded a lot like THM. Still, the act was popular and the record sounded good and this got off the ground. But then Al Mumin was exposed as a fraud, when, after an unsuccessful tour attempt and problems with his online image and his band falling apart, he posted those first pantomime videos under the premise "look what I can do." I mean, make whatever music you want to make, for sure, but when you go around showing off guitar skills and it turns out you were faking it, you just got caught being a fraud. What else is there to say?

At that point, I don't see why anyone would care about his guitar playing anymore, period. So many talented guitarists out there, many on forums like this, can play amazing things, and are not seeing the light of day. Time for frauds to step aside and for the real guitar players to have a chance to say something. But the hype and the bandwagon was too strong, so this "band" continues to grab likes and views...why? I don't know. I guess I'm salty because I've seen so many guitarists who can play stuff just like Al Mumin was pretending to play, but for real, and they might get a tenth of the exposure.


----------



## Zalbu

Yeah, we better call the top minds over at NASA so they can figure out why people like a good guitarist who makes good music. It's a real mystery.



bostjan said:


> I guess I'm salty because I've seen so many guitarists who can play stuff just like Al Mumin was pretending to play, but for real


...you mean guitarists like Al Mumin? Or are his recent playthrough videos fake because his nose hairs flap about in an unnatural way or something?


----------



## GunpointMetal

Zalbu said:


> ...you mean guitarists like Al Mumin? Or are his recent playthrough videos fake because his nose hairs flap about in an unnatural way or something?



Or, you know, the videos from the first tour.....or how playing live is such a chore that he just fires everyone before a performance to cancel a show.....
I don't care either way, but the audio in that video is in no way coming directly off a guitar like that.


----------



## bostjan

Zalbu said:


> Yeah, we better call the top minds over at NASA so they can figure out why people like a good guitarist who makes good music. It's a real mystery.
> 
> 
> ...you mean guitarists like Al Mumin? Or are his recent playthrough videos fake because his nose hairs flap about in an unnatural way or something?


I thought good music was subjective. 

No, I mean guitarists who actually play their guitars and do tours with bands and things of that nature. You know, the hard work part of being a "good guitarist."


----------



## Zalbu

GunpointMetal said:


> Or, you know, the videos from the first tour.....or how playing live is such a chore that he just fires everyone before a performance to cancel a show.....
> I don't care either way, but the audio in that video is in no way coming directly off a guitar like that.


The part I quoted said "can" play, not "could" play, and Al's recent live shows and playthrough videos shows that he can play stuff he couldn't play before.





bostjan said:


> I thought good music was subjective.


Indeed it is, and I would assume that people who are listening to the guys music and are waiting for him to release new material think his music is good, otherwise there wouldn't be much point in listening to his music. Unless you're a forum dweller who scans playthrough videos meticulously to spot anything that could be used as proof that the guy is a fraud, but there surely wouldn't be any people like that on here, would it?



bostjan said:


> No, I mean guitarists who actually play their guitars and do tours with bands and things of that nature. You know, the hard work part of being a "good guitarist."


Sure, the guy is good, but I don't think he's gotten better over the past 6 years by not playing his guitar, unless he has some kind of jedi powers to be able to learn how to play without touching his instrument. And since when do you have to do tours to be a good guitarist? Are all the people who can play circles around Al but apparently don't get any exposure because Al has scammed us all into liking his music not good guitarists because Al himself is apparently responsible for them not being able to go on tours?


----------



## Slunk Dragon

Shedding was a decent song, holding out for possibly some cooler material.


----------



## QuantumCybin

Zalbu said:


> The part I quoted said "can" play, not "could" play, and Al's recent live shows and playthrough videos shows that he can play stuff he couldn't play before.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed it is, and I would assume that people who are listening to the guys music and are waiting for him to release new material think his music is good, otherwise there wouldn't be much point in listening to his music. Unless you're a forum dweller who scans playthrough videos meticulously to spot anything that could be used as proof that the guy is a fraud, but there surely wouldn't be any people like that on here, would it?
> 
> 
> Sure, the guy is good, but I don't think he's gotten better over the past 6 years by not playing his guitar, unless he has some kind of jedi powers to be able to learn how to play without touching his instrument. And since when do you have to do tours to be a good guitarist? Are all the people who can play circles around Al but apparently don't get any exposure because Al has scammed us all into liking his music not good guitarists because Al himself is apparently responsible for them not being able to go on tours?





Dude, I feel like you’re totally misunderstanding where Bostjan is coming from 

I’m not sure if you’re vehemently defending Al Mumin or what; you sound personally offended by it. I think (and correct/forgive me if I’m wrong in speaking for you) Bostjan was just pointing out that he was surprised people still give a (relative) shit about THM due to the time it’s been since their last record and the whole “can’t actually play” debacle. I think his ability to play that stuff now is sort of irrelevant to what Bostjan was saying.


----------



## Zalbu

QuantumCybin said:


> Dude, I feel like you’re totally misunderstanding where Bostjan is coming from
> 
> I’m not sure if you’re vehemently defending Al Mumin or what; you sound personally offended by it. I think (and correct/forgive me if I’m wrong in speaking for you) Bostjan was just pointing out that he was surprised people still give a (relative) shit about THM due to the time it’s been since their last record and the whole “can’t actually play” debacle. I think his ability to play that stuff now is sort of irrelevant to what Bostjan was saying.


This is what he's saying


bostjan said:


> I mean, make whatever music you want to make, for sure, but when you go around showing off guitar skills and it turns out you were faking it, you just got caught being a fraud. What else is there to say?
> 
> At that point, I don't see why anyone would care about his guitar playing anymore, period. Time for frauds to step aside and for the real guitar players to have a chance to say something. But the hype and the bandwagon was too strong, so this "band" continues to grab likes and views...why? I don't know. I guess I'm salty because I've seen so many guitarists who can play stuff just like Al Mumin was pretending to play, but for real, and they might get a tenth of the exposure.


The guy genuinely seems unaware that you can become better at your instrument if you spend 6 years practicing it and thinks just because he turned out to be a fraud before then he should have no chance to redeem himself and actually prove that he knows how to play, and that Al himself is somehow responsible for other guitarists that are as good as Al or better not getting their spot in the limelight. If I'm reading it wrong then he's not doing a very good job at getting his thoughts across in text.


----------



## Doug N

Given his history it would be nice for him to actually post a play thorough, regardless of how immensely difficult it is to get lighting and other BS right. That would silence a lot of issues and then people could just bicker about whether they like the music or not, rather than whether the dude actually play what he composes.


----------



## Paul McAleer

All things set aside and fwiw I would still like to listen a new album. Whenever that may be.


----------



## Avedas

Not really a fan of these pseudo music videos anyway. I wish more people would do what Aaron Marshall did and just go on a livestream and play a few songs in one take. Actually, if you use a bunch of layering or patch changing or whatever I think it's also fine to do a video of segmented takes. If the focus is going to be on the guitar playing then maybe it's better to actually play the guitar, and if the focus is on the music video you can probably do a lot better than a sweaty dude sitting on a stool in his bedroom.


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

bostjan said:


> Definitely sounds very similar to the music in most of those other videos to me.


I'm not trying to stir any shit or anything but who out there is writing music like Al? I'm constantly on the search for new music and have never heard anyone that sounds like Al. The closest I've found is Sol 2183 but thats mostly recorded at half-speed(like it even matters) and its not even the guys main project so newer music from him most likely wont happen. The music thats in those mimed play-throughs is always that same overly bright and snappy clean tone with the same kind of huge sounding chords drenched in reverb that gets old after 30 seconds.



Doug N said:


> Given his history it would be nice for him to actually post a play thorough, regardless of how immensely difficult it is to get lighting and other BS right. That would silence a lot of issues and then people could just bicker about whether they like the music or not, rather than whether the dude actually play what he composes.


He's got videos of him playing the material but no one wants to accept that he can actually play what he writes now since the halfspeed-can't play what you write-GuitarPro Metal circle jerk that surrounds him and Lucas Mann is just as strong as ever.


----------



## InvertedEarth

Are they ever going to release new material?


----------



## QuantumCybin

Zalbu said:


> This is what he's saying
> 
> The guy genuinely seems unaware that you can become better at your instrument if you spend 6 years practicing it and thinks just because he turned out to be a fraud before then he should have no chance to redeem himself and actually prove that he knows how to play, and that Al himself is somehow responsible for other guitarists that are as good as Al or better not getting their spot in the limelight. If I'm reading it wrong then he's not doing a very good job at getting his thoughts across in text.



Fair enough, you just seemed to be taking personal offense to the idea that once someone is shown to be a fraud, it's pretty damn hard to have that redemption lol. 

But really, like you said, music is subjective so....fuck it lol


----------



## vent187

Not being a fan of this band/guy but still clicking on the thread to spew hate, is like not being a fan of Les Pauls but still going to those threads and complaining about the scale length.


----------



## Zalbu

Doug N said:


> Given his history it would be nice for him to actually post a play thorough, regardless of how immensely difficult it is to get lighting and other BS right. That would silence a lot of issues and then people could just bicker about whether they like the music or not, rather than whether the dude actually play what he composes.


He did actually play on the last play through he did, and people were still going on about how it looked "sped up" because he shot the video in a high frame rate and that he stitched it together note for note and God knows what. It doesn't matter what the guy dooes when there's people who are genuinely unaware that you can become better at your instrument after practicing for 6 years.


----------



## lewis

GunpointMetal said:


> Or, you know, the videos from the first tour.....or how playing live is such a chore that he just fires everyone before a performance to cancel a show.....
> I don't care either way, but the audio in that video is in no way coming directly off a guitar like that.


THIS x10000

I personally know the Session Drummer he shafted on last years Tech Fest late cancellation.
My bands vocalist has been friends with the dude for years. So we were abit closer to this situation than most.

Therefore, it isnt just about coming in spewing hate for no reason. I can tell you that he took some musicians who worked super hard and were super excited to try playing such technical and challenging music live, and last minute just cancelled everything because of a bunch of feeble reasons. (not being ready apparently?. He may not have been through laziness but the others certainly were - the drummer had been rehearsing solid for MONTHS)

end of the day, this dude would be much much better just doing clinics and remaining a Youtube guitarist type thing rather than try and gig with a whole lineup of humans. His personality just does not seem compatible with juggling a band of personalities plus his "its my band my schedule" type attitude, it just never works out.

Infact why does he not just try gigging with everything bar him on a backing track?


----------



## bostjan

Zalbu said:


> Sure, the guy is good, but I don't think he's gotten better over the past 6 years by not playing his guitar, unless he has some kind of jedi powers to be able to learn how to play without touching his instrument.


I'm sure Milli Vanilli got better in the six years after their debacle as well, but no one cared.



Zalbu said:


> And since when do you have to do tours to be a good guitarist?


Since the Haarp Machine and Rings of Saturn, that's when. Now you have tons of players who are doing the same thing without even bothering to record any real instruments at all, and it shows, but it still seems very effective at fooling the undiscerning ear. There was a thread just days ago with a youtube video of a guy clearly pantomiming over MIDI. Now, maybe the guy who pantomimes over MIDI can play and maybe not, but either way the video, to me , seemed really cheap. While I can give Al Mumin a fair amount more credit than that, there's still the fact that he was called out for his shenanigans of recording parts slow and speeding them up beyond the point where he could physically play them. You get caught doing shit like that and you shouldn't expect everyone to give a standing ovation when you release a mimed video.



Zalbu said:


> Are all the people who can play circles around Al but apparently don't get any exposure because Al has scammed us all into liking his music not good guitarists because Al himself is apparently responsible for them not being able to go on tours?


Holy run-on sentences, Batman!


----------



## Lorcan Ward

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> I'm not trying to stir any shit or anything but who out there is writing music like Al? I'm constantly on the search for new music and have never heard anyone that sounds like Al.



Yeah if people could provide some examples that would be awesome. That riff at 0:46 is one of the freshest and emotively stirring pieces of music I've heard on guitar in years. Closest I can think of is some bits from Protest the Hero's Pacific Myth, mainly Harbinger. The integration of ethnic instruments in Al's music is effortless to which gives it such a unique sound. When other artists try to do that it just sounds cluttered and needless, looking at you Jari Maenpaa. 

If you guys think modern metal is heavily edited and full of studio magic go see an American band called PVRIS live. Without a doubt the worse band I've ever seen live, clear miming to backing tracks, singer had a fraction of the range displayed on the album and sang about 1/3rd of the vocals then turned around to let the backing track finish or the crowd take over, keyboards all over the stage but barely being used despite constant solo piano tracks intros and outros played over the PA. Just showed how much auto tuning and editing was used on their albums. Its rampant across every genre nowadays now that the tools are available to everyone.


----------



## lewis

Lorcan Ward said:


> Yeah if people could provide some examples that would be awesome. That riff at 0:46 is one of the freshest and emotively stirring pieces of music I've heard on guitar in years. Closest I can think of is some bits from Protest the Hero's Pacific Myth, mainly Harbinger. The integration of ethnic instruments in Al's music is effortless to which gives it such a unique sound. When other artists try to do that it just sounds cluttered and needless, looking at you Jari Maenpaa.
> 
> If you guys think modern metal is heavily edited and full of studio magic go see an American band called PVRIS live. Without a doubt the worse band I've ever seen live, clear miming to backing tracks, singer had a fraction of the range displayed on the album and sang about 1/3rd of the vocals then turned around to let the backing track finish or the crowd take over, keyboards all over the stage but barely being used despite constant solo piano tracks intros and outros played over the PA. Just showed how much auto tuning and editing was used on their albums. Its rampant across every genre nowadays now that the tools are available to everyone.



no excuse to mime vocals and have keyboard/ists that dont actually play them etc.

my band however, through lack of appropriate drummers in are area, are planning as we speak to gig with Drums on backing track.
As well as strings.

Guitars, vocals, bass etc will all be executed live and properly.
I think thats the limit personally (I am biased though as Im going this route) but I would never ever condone miming. 
Ive gigged with a band who did exactly like you described and it was both hilarious and cringey in equal measures.

Turned up with Dual Axe FX IIs and looked like they had all the top end razamatazz..

then mimed most of their songs and had 90% of it backing tracked. 
Was ridiculous.


----------



## Metropolis

That was some of the most annoying and ear fatiquing wonky djenty riff I've heard in a long time...  in the song called Shedding. Just saying... no one should care about it anyway... oh well


----------



## Avedas

Unless it's a Kpop girl group I don't want to see any miming on stage. It's one thing to run a drum or bass backing track because you don't have an actual player, but to have a person with an instrument and just faking it? lmao


----------



## GunpointMetal

lewis said:


> Ive gigged with a band who did exactly like you described and it was both hilarious and cringey in equal measures.
> 
> Turned up with Dual Axe FX IIs and looked like they had all the top end razamatazz..
> 
> then mimed most of their songs and had 90% of it backing tracked.
> Was ridiculous.


Played with a band one time that ran everything into protools with guitars side-chained to pre-recorded DI tracks. If they were playing, the guitar audio was coming through, if they stopped and there was still a guitar part the DI track would ride in and take over. So they'd be doing ridiculous stage moves while obviously NOT playing, but the sound never changed. Good stuff, for a laugh.

I'm 100% sure this dude is an excellent guitarist (now). It's a shame he make his music sound like reamped Guitar Pro.


----------



## Uncreative123

Veil, ATB, BoO, and Within the Ruins all backtrack guitars live now (not for everything, just due to lack of a second guitarist). I think part of it is that it's financially more appealing to do so. But one of those I think has a somewhat difficult time playing live and I've heard backtracks pretty much everything. 
I know the guitarist for WTR chooses to play the easier parts where given the choice.
A lot of prominent bands, even with two guitarists, are using backing tracks anymore, for a lot. I always thought that was "illegal", but I guess times have changed.


----------



## sakeido

Maybe internet metal nerds are so hyper-critical that guys that previously thought playing everything live and accepting a few mistakes was the way to go, even though it was _way_ harder to do stuff like that, (Marc Okubo) finally gave up and went with the 100% consistent way and back track everything. IMO this is the ultimate result of the nitpick culture so prevalent in online metal discourse.

re: Haarp Machine, new song is cool. riff at 0:44 is just unreal.

I find it funny people still complain about him even though he released a couple videos of him playing with the dryest tone ever, clearly nailing his songs which are - for the record - extremely hard. I'm not crazy about the style as a whole but his take on it has always been substantially cooler than everybody else's so a new album is on my radar, especially if he gets a vocalist as good as Mike on it again.


----------



## gunch

Concerning this I’ve learned to separate the man from the music; yeah, we know he’s been in some hokey shit in the past but the dude writes cool riffs. 

I’ve been looking for that band Sol (numbers) forever and I’m so glad someone brought them back up


----------



## lurè

Nowadays market is oversaturated with modern/djent bands and expectations are high. 
Doing mistakes live has become unacceptable so most bands prefer to sit back and play over a backing track where 80% of the actual sound comes from.


----------



## wannabguitarist

I couldn't care less if he actually plays the music live or not. The riffs are cool and I want more 

This track needs vocals:


----------



## lewis

silverabyss said:


> Concerning this I’ve learned to separate the man from the music; yeah, we know he’s been in some hokey shit in the past but the dude writes cool riffs.
> 
> I’ve been looking for that band Sol (numbers) forever and I’m so glad someone brought them back up


chicken and egg?
Im sorry but music is a man made thing so I will always respect people and their feelings/rights before the "music".

He has treated fellow musicians, good people, badly


wannabguitarist said:


> I couldn't care less if he actually plays the music live or not. The riffs are cool and I want more
> 
> This track needs vocals:



all i care about is that guitar.
So cool.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Didn't see anyone post this, but I don't like the song itself much at all. The video posted above mine is a far better track IMO. 

Also funny to see that are people suggesting that Al Mu'min ripped off Sol2183 when Haarp predates that band online by at least two years


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Jonathan20022 said:


> Also funny to see that are people suggesting that Al Mu'min ripped off Sol2183 when Haarp predates that band online by at least two years


Who said that?


----------



## Jonathan20022

I saw some banter on Facebook where people were discussing that and in the comments of some videos


----------



## bloc

I think it's amazing he's still using EMG pickups. I thought those were considered "uncool" now


----------



## Floppystrings

bloc said:


> I think it's amazing he's still using EMG pickups. I thought those were considered "uncool" now



People said the same thing 15 years ago.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Floppystrings said:


> People said the same thing 15 years ago.



And the decade before that.


----------



## bloc

Seems like everyone and their mom has those trendy Fishman Fluences in their guitars now. I never see EMG's anymore.


----------



## VigilSerus

Ive always enjoyed HAARP, and as much as Al is an asshole, music has always taken a life of its own separate from its creator, to me. As much as I can't respect Al for his attitude, I can only but respect and enjoy his songwriting and riff skills. That said, I hope the album doesn't all sound like the new release here. I can only deal with that completely unreal gate sound for like, one or two songs.


----------



## RoRo56

Sydney Taieb of Atlantis Chronicles


----------



## StevenC

That's pretty conclusive. Can't play his own music so he has to hire other people.


----------



## RoRo56

StevenC said:


> That's pretty conclusive. Can't play his own music so he has to hire other people.



Surely you wouldn't expect him to be able to play the drums to that standard? He is a guitarist like.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Tight! Maybe he's drumming on the new album.


----------



## Spicypickles

All I know is......this thread is making my varberg boner RAGE.


----------



## Flappydoodle

bloc said:


> Seems like everyone and their mom has those trendy Fishman Fluences in their guitars now. I never see EMG's anymore.



Yep. They really are the new hotness.

In fairness, the modern basically IS an EMG81, with a bit more flexibility. If I had to get that type of pickup for a guitar right now, I'd get a Fishman modern. They are actually really, really good pickups if you enjoy that sound.

But if I had a guitar with an 81 already, I wouldn't bother upgrading.

And I'm sure most Youtubers were getting Fishmans for free, which I'm sure helps!


----------



## jwade

This new video was interesting. I can't say I give a shit whether it's heavily edited or whatever, I'm more interested in how fucking tiring it looks to play. Would it even be fractionally 'fun' to play like that? It seems like you'd have to stand dead still and stare at your hands the whole time.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I've tabbed most of it, a lot of it is quite straight forward where you could move around a stage during sections but there are parts which look impossible at that tempo. I haven't checked with a guitar though.


----------



## Stilicho

Lorcan Ward said:


> I've tabbed most of it, a lot of it is quite straight forward where you could move around a stage during sections but there are parts which look impossible at that tempo. I haven't checked with a guitar though.


Any chance you can upload the gp file for us? 

I read through this thread and thought Al was an asshole, but then I listened to the music and it's some great stuff. In the new playthrough vids he's definitely playing the songs without any speeding up either, so I think the bullyciding that happened after the first album made him work hard on his chops. Good new find as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## iliketofish

Id actually like if the new songs got slowed down a bit, maybe 80 percent the original speed. They sound pretty cool at .75 if you go to the video settings


----------



## Avedas

Listening through again, I actually love his backing tracks. They sound pretty janky and trippy.


----------



## StevenC

iliketofish said:


> Id actually like if the new songs got slowed down a bit, maybe 80 percent the original speed. They sound pretty cool at .75 if you go to the video settings


Just turns it into Scale the Summit


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Stilicho said:


> Any chance you can upload the gp file for us?



I want to finish it and then go over it with a guitar to work out positions.


----------



## Stilicho

Lorcan Ward said:


> I want to finish it and then go over it with a guitar to work out positions.


Sounds good man. Are you using Transcribe btw or just figuring this out as you go along?


----------



## RoRo56

At least he's able to laugh at himself


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Damn I was really hoping he'd keep it all instrumental. Hopefully he doesn't pick some whiny douche.


----------



## lewis

if this dude was a white guy that looked like Jared Dines, he would be getting absolutely roasted by everyone.

For example, "Berried Alive" gets loads of heat in here and not that long ago there was a thread slagging him off etc no problems.

I honestly believe that people are nervous about calling this guy out, because he isnt white and the first thing that gets thrown around these days is the racist card whenever anyone has anything negative to say about anyone who is black/arab etc etc. So out of fear, people are just overly positive like robots out of fear they too get branded a racist.

This dude could be bright green with luminous purple hair, and to me he would still be a joke.

Just seems double standards to me personally.
I await the 189 different alerts Im going to get of people bitching about this post.


----------



## GunpointMetal

lewis said:


> if this dude was a white guy that looked like Jared Dines, he would be getting absolutely roasted by everyone.
> 
> For example, "Berried Alive" gets loads of heat in here and not that long ago there was a thread slagging him off etc no problems.
> 
> I honestly believe that people are nervous about calling this guy out, because he isnt white and the first thing that gets thrown around these days is the racist card whenever anyone has anything negative to say about anyone who is black/arab etc etc. So out of fear, people are just overly positive like robots out of fear they too get branded a racist.
> 
> This dude could be bright green with luminous purple hair, and to me he would still be a joke.
> 
> Just seems double standards to me personally.
> I await the 189 different alerts Im going to get of people bitching about this post.


Pretty sure every time someone brings up The Edit Machine about half the posts are knocking him for studio trickery. Music haters have no racial preferences.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Let's not forget how much of a monumental douche he was, and the fact that he tried to tour with a full band and couldn't even play the shit from the first album.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

lewis said:


> if this dude was a white guy that looked like Jared Dines, he would be getting absolutely roasted by everyone.
> 
> For example, "Berried Alive" gets loads of heat in here and not that long ago there was a thread slagging him off etc no problems.
> 
> I honestly believe that people are nervous about calling this guy out, because he isnt white and the first thing that gets thrown around these days is the racist card whenever anyone has anything negative to say about anyone who is black/arab etc etc. So out of fear, people are just overly positive like robots out of fear they too get branded a racist.
> 
> This dude could be bright green with luminous purple hair, and to me he would still be a joke.
> 
> Just seems double standards to me personally.
> I await the 189 different alerts Im going to get of people bitching about this post.



I'm what you'd call a SJW and I still think given his history, he's a joke.


----------



## RoRo56

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Let's not forget how much of a monumental douche he was, and the fact that he tried to tour with a full band and couldn't even play the shit from the first album.



Don't get me wrong, he's still a terrible person but I really think the claims that he couldn't play live were always over exaggerated. Some of the performances from the first US tour were a little rough around the edges and he fluffed a few lead parts, but it's not like the guy straight up couldn't play the music. I saw them on the European tour with Born Of Osiris and couldn't find any real fault with his performance then.


----------



## sakeido

lewis said:


> if this dude was a white guy that looked like Jared Dines, he would be getting absolutely roasted by everyone.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Also Lucas Mann was the same way. Mimed some shit for a solo album, acted like a douche canoe, and he was rightfully shit on for it. And dude's whiter than saltines.


----------



## Razerjack

Since his 'resurface', I believe he actually learned from the past and focused on his performance. I'm rooting for the band to succeed, if he can keep one together that is. For me, the HAARP machine brings an unique product in this genre, while berried alive/ROS often sound like random shred being sped up.


----------



## Avedas

lewis said:


> if this dude was a white guy that looked like Jared Dines, he would be getting absolutely roasted by everyone.
> 
> For example, "Berried Alive" gets loads of heat in here and not that long ago there was a thread slagging him off etc no problems.
> 
> I honestly believe that people are nervous about calling this guy out, because he isnt white and the first thing that gets thrown around these days is the racist card whenever anyone has anything negative to say about anyone who is black/arab etc etc. So out of fear, people are just overly positive like robots out of fear they too get branded a racist.
> 
> This dude could be bright green with luminous purple hair, and to me he would still be a joke.
> 
> Just seems double standards to me personally.
> I await the 189 different alerts Im going to get of people bitching about this post.


Maybe on large social media platforms like Facebook or Reddit, but I don't think that argument holds much sway in a more specialized forum like this.


----------



## vent187

So they're looking for a vocalist! Can't wait to see where this goes. But the video seems very edited and fake.


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

Razerjack said:


> Since his 'resurface', I believe he actually learned from the past and focused on his performance. I'm rooting for the band to succeed, if he can keep one together that is. For me, the HAARP machine brings an unique product in this genre, while berried alive/ROS often sound like random shred being sped up.


You know the two of them are collaborating now? Lucas Mann and Charles Caswell. Some new thing called: DADS. Literally, it is the most fake bullshit you've ever heard guys try to pass off as "guitar playing". So cringe-worthy in how they present themselves too.


----------



## QuantumCybin

Emperor Guillotine said:


> You know the two of them are collaborating now? Lucas Mann and Charles Caswell. Some new thing called: DADS. Literally, it is the most fake bullshit you've ever heard guys try to pass off as "guitar playing". So cringe-worthy in how they present themselves too.



Do they do stupid faces at the camera together now instead of just Lucas? Lol


----------



## Emperor Guillotine

QuantumCybin said:


> Do they do stupid faces at the camera together now instead of just Lucas? Lol


I don't even have to say anything. You already know.


----------



## QuantumCybin

D-d-d-double derp (I imagined that as the way the UT announcer says monster kill)


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> if this dude was a white guy that looked like Jared Dines, he would be getting absolutely roasted by everyone.
> 
> For example, "Berried Alive" gets loads of heat in here and not that long ago there was a thread slagging him off etc no problems.
> 
> I honestly believe that people are nervous about calling this guy out, because he isnt white and the first thing that gets thrown around these days is the racist card whenever anyone has anything negative to say about anyone who is black/arab etc etc. So out of fear, people are just overly positive like robots out of fear they too get branded a racist.
> 
> This dude could be bright green with luminous purple hair, and to me he would still be a joke.
> 
> Just seems double standards to me personally.
> I await the 189 different alerts Im going to get of people bitching about this post.



Have you not read this thread? It's at least 75% him getting skewered.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

lewis said:


> if this dude was a white guy that looked like Jared Dines, he would be getting absolutely roasted by everyone.
> 
> For example, "Berried Alive" gets loads of heat in here and not that long ago there was a thread slagging him off etc no problems.
> 
> I honestly believe that people are nervous about calling this guy out, because he isnt white and the first thing that gets thrown around these days is the racist card whenever anyone has anything negative to say about anyone who is black/arab etc etc. So out of fear, people are just overly positive like robots out of fear they too get branded a racist.
> 
> This dude could be bright green with luminous purple hair, and to me he would still be a joke.
> 
> Just seems double standards to me personally.
> I await the 189 different alerts Im going to get of people bitching about this post.


lmao most of this thread has been shitting on haarp machine and al moomoo. Nobody here cares that he's brown, we just care that he's a prick and can't play his own shit, same as Lucas Mann, Berried Alive, and Dan James Griffin.


----------



## Jonathan20022

It's funny how the dude is the only person in this entire thread who brought in the 'race card'. His race doesn't matter and it never did, this forum is by majority against edited playing and miming. Most of this and the old threads were just shitting on him anyways


----------



## bostjan

I'm a 30-something cynical metalhead, I fit the demographic that really doesn't care about race, sex, or creed, one way or the other when it comes to spilling forth my hatred of anything deemed to be false, and this is the forum where the largest amount of my demographic can be found. 

I think this new approach of Al's might do him some good; however, it could backfire on him if people think he's just trying to copy Misha. At any rate, if this guy wants to put together a band and come to Vermont to play, I'd go see him. ...and if I deem that he's pulling any sort of fakery without being upfront about it, then I will continue to smugly scoff at him. But the fact of reality is that he won't play anywhere near me, I won't go see him, and no one will care what I think.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Razerjack said:


> For me, the HAARP machine brings an unique product in this genre, while berried alive/ROS often sound like random shred being sped up.


So random shred is cool as long as it's in an easily definable key, then? lol


----------



## lurè

I prefer if The Haarp Machine remains instrumental.
Riffs are cool but throwing vocals over them is just bullshit.

If it's true that Al can't play is own stuff, I guess they have to find a vocalist who can't sing his own stuff: a prophet of the Auto-Tune.


----------



## ArtDecade

This thread went even farther sideways than normal. Well done, lads.


----------



## bostjan

lurè said:


> I prefer if The Haarp Machine remains instrumental.
> Riffs are cool but throwing vocals over them is just bullshit.
> 
> If it's true that Al can't play is own stuff, I guess they have to find a vocalist who can't sing his own stuff: a prophet of the Auto-Tune.


Maybe vocaloids or autotuned rubber chicken. Or both.



ArtDecade said:


> This thread went even farther sideways than normal. Well done, lads.



Don't resist. Give in to the shitpost.


----------



## narad

lewis said:


> if this dude was a white guy that looked like Jared Dines, he would be getting absolutely roasted by everyone.
> ...
> I honestly believe that people are nervous about calling this guy out, because he isnt white and the first thing that gets thrown around these days is the racist card whenever anyone has anything negative to say about anyone who is black/arab etc etc. So out of fear, people are just overly positive like robots out of fear they too get branded a racist.



So we're not slagging him enough? He's better than you are. He's better than me. Why are we even a position to be roasting him _at all?_


----------



## lewis

narad said:


> So we're not slagging him enough? He's better than you are. He's better than me. Why are we even a position to be roasting him _at all?_


Because morally, he treated fellow musicians appalingly. That has fuck all to do with his "talent".


----------



## narad

lewis said:


> Because morally, he treated fellow musicians appalingly. That has fuck all to do with his "talent".



It has fuck all to do with race, for sure.

Morally, I'm not sure what you're looking for. Maybe if everyone chimed in with a "That's bad" post to show we are unanimously in favor of him treating his bandmates better, you'd feel like he was getting the appropriate degree of slogging?


----------



## lewis

L


narad said:


> So we're not slagging him enough? He's better than you are. He's better than me. Why are we even a position to be roasting him _at all?_





narad said:


> It has fuck all to do with race, for sure.
> 
> Morally, I'm not sure what you're looking for. Maybe if everyone chimed in with a "That's bad" post to show we are unanimously in favor of him treating his bandmates better, you'd feel like he was getting the appropriate degree of slogging?


I mean i should have mentioned in my initial post that i havent read the whole thread.
The only posts i saw were people wowed by him and wanting tabs etc. It was all positive talk and given i know the drummer personally he fucked over for the tech fest cancelled show, it annoyed me is all.
Lets end it here because i cant really be arsed to carry it on.


----------



## narad

lewis said:


> L
> I mean i should have mentioned in my initial post that i havent read the whole thread.
> The only posts i saw were people wowed by him and wanting tabs etc. It was all positive talk and given i know the drummer personally he fucked over for the tech fest cancelled show, it annoyed me is all.
> Lets end it here because i cant really be arsed to carry it on.



Sure, but for the record he's been one of the most bashed artists on here, at least among those that like.. weren't arrested for paedophilia... To say we were all going easy on him because of race kind of seems obviously wrong in the big picture.


----------



## downburst82

lewis said:


> L
> 
> 
> I mean i should have mentioned in my initial post that i havent read the whole thread.
> The only posts i saw were people wowed by him and wanting tabs etc. It was all positive talk and given i know the drummer personally he fucked over for the tech fest cancelled show, it annoyed me is all.
> Lets end it here because i cant really be arsed to carry it on.



You have been posting in the thread for at least the last 4 pages....and it certainly hasn't been "all positive talk" people have had for him....

"End it here" is probably a good idea (since you suggested it)


----------



## Restarted

lurè said:


> If it's true that Al can't play is own stuff, I guess they have to find a vocalist who can't sing his own stuff: a prophet of the Auto-Tune.





bostjan said:


> Maybe vocaloids or autotuned rubber chicken. Or both.



http://www.korg.com/us/products/effects/mikustomp/


----------



## iamaom

I actually really like the vocals. No reason he couldn't just release a double-album one with vocals one without.


----------



## bostjan

Restarted said:


> http://www.korg.com/us/products/effects/mikustomp/


At $400 USD, it's still cheaper than a real singer.


----------



## Avedas

Stilicho said:


> Any chance you can upload the gp file for us?
> 
> I read through this thread and thought Al was an asshole, but then I listened to the music and it's some great stuff. In the new playthrough vids he's definitely playing the songs without any speeding up either, so I think the bullyciding that happened after the first album made him work hard on his chops. Good new find as far as I'm concerned.


I remembered you asked for this, and it turns out some Japanese dude tabbed it out here. Most of it isn't overly difficult. I did find it hilarious that the Guitar Pro midi sounds pretty much just like the track . There are some fun riffs though.


----------



## Stilicho

Avedas said:


> I remembered you asked for this, and it turns out some Japanese dude tabbed it out here. Most of it isn't overly difficult. I did find it hilarious that the Guitar Pro midi sounds pretty much just like the track . There are some fun riffs though.


Haha that midi made me laugh when I opened up the video  
Yeah it doesn't seem too crazy, even the fast parts are only 150bpm 16th notes. Might start working on learning this soon and see how far I get though before I say it's "easy" just yet, thanks for the tab man!


----------



## RoRo56

So Sydney is a full time member. Hopefully they get the vocalist sorted and get the album out.


----------



## anomynous

In the band....for now


----------



## Dcm81

What’s this about then? New touring or second guitarist?


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

The Carillion Guitars Facebook page called him the second guitarist so I guess he's more than just a live guitarist.


----------



## CreptorStatus

Looks like yet again everyone (Sydney - drums, Dan - guitar) has quit the band.. and both said some very unkind words about Al. Can't say I am super surprised considering this bands history but man.. Wonder if this dude will ever get an actual lineup to stick around.

https://www.thecirclepit.com/2018/10/the-haarp-machine-lose-more-members-keep-teasing-new-album


----------



## GunpointMetal

Lol "fake" band. Sounds like the rumors are pretty accurate and this guy is a toolbox. Too bad, SOME of the music was pretty cool (even if it was probably just MIDI run through shreddage)


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Some really bad stories from ex band mates have come out, some you can find in the video comments. Dan is an unbelievable player, like many others is easy to see why'd he's annoyed after learning all the songs and committing to future tours. At this stage he just needs to keep it as a studio project and forget touring.


----------



## Kaura

Lorcan Ward said:


> Some really bad stories from ex band mates have come out, some you can find in the video comments. Dan is an unbelievable player, like many others is easy to see why'd he's annoyed after learning all the songs and committing to future tours. At this stage he just needs to keep it as a studio project and forget touring.



What video? The drum cover? All the comments I saw were in French or smth. I want to hear some juicy stories about the guy if he's so bad as they say.


----------



## Avedas

And nobody was surprised lmao


----------



## Veldar

That's a shame, some of the new music sounds pretty good


----------



## RoRo56

Seems like he's just such a control freak that he can't stand anyone having the slightest bit of input/improvisation with the music. You'd think Sumerian would just pay for some session musicians to record the album and get it done with. Al is obviously just incredibly lazy, he's been sitting on this album for 6 years


----------



## lewis

Al is a complete douchebag.

One time he fell out with the manager whilst on tour, so took/hid/destroyed (cant remember which) the dudes passport so he got stuck wherever they were at the time and the rest of them carried on with the tour.

Who does that? Manager was in serious crap after that trying to sort out I.D, Paperwork and all that Jazz.

What a complete dick


----------



## Avedas

lewis said:


> Al is a complete douchebag.
> 
> One time he fell out with the manager whilst on tour, so took/hid/destroyed (cant remember which) the dudes passport so he got stuck wherever they were at the time and the rest of them carried on with the tour.
> 
> Who does that? Manager was in serious crap after that trying to sort out I.D, Paperwork and all that Jazz.
> 
> What a complete dick


So those guys calling him a psycho weren't exaggerating at all. That's seriously insane.


----------



## lewis

Avedas said:


> So those guys calling him a psycho weren't exaggerating at all. That's seriously insane.


I know this because I know a member that was lined up to be a session musician in the band for the Techfest appearance they cancelled on right before the show. He told us some of the things Al had done.

Guy is literally insane as you say.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Kaura said:


> What video? The drum cover? All the comments I saw were in French or smth. I want to hear some juicy stories about the guy if he's so bad as they say.



Comments on the video are gone but Lewis posted the main one.


----------



## StevenC

Hmmm...


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

I'm not going to contribute to the funding but I hope it gets released so I can hear the instrumental version, that vocalist is trash.


----------



## Albake21

.....do we start taking bets with how long these guys last?


----------



## lewis

sigh.

This is actually starting to piss me off now. If ever there was a musician NOT deserving of any support or hype, its this douchebag. Talent or no talent, he is a moron.


----------



## Albake21

By the way, I took a look at their indiegogo page. Not only are the packages expensive as hell, but there is no way in hell they are going to raise £32,999. It's kind of a shame because I really enjoy the first album, although I'm sure Mike Semesky being on it helps a lot.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Man, this guy is literally the LAST PERSON who deserves to have anyone besides himself pay for his music to get made. He keeps calling it a "band" like its not gonna be just him in two months, lol. What a chode.


----------



## anomynous

"We decided to part ways with Sumerian records"


yeah, ok


----------



## GunpointMetal

I bet the fundraiser is just so he can actually pay the dudes to record the album. If I was any of them I wouldn't go near a microphone without a written legally-binding contract and some cash up front.


----------



## cip 123

So the label dropped them?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

It shows you how either clueless or desperate people are to be in a band if Mu'min and Keene are still able to get a steady stream of musicians.


----------



## Kaura

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> It shows you how either clueless or desperate people are to be in a band if Mu'min and Keene are still able to get a steady stream of musicians.



I'd join THP in a heartbeat if the other option was to join some generic no-namer band. Despite all the haters I'm pretty sure this band still has some fans.


----------



## cwhitey2

cip 123 said:


> So the label dropped them?


Why the hell wouldn't they? (I have no info on the the matter) 

This band is the biggest joke i have ever seen. 

Why would any person in their right mind play with him? If he called me up i wouldn't even entertain the request.


----------



## Ralyks

I dig Al's music and wish HAARP Machine would actually, y'know, succeed, but not a chance in hell I give a penny to this with Al's track record.

Whats the over/under they don't reach their goal?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Ralyks said:


> I dig Al's music and wish HAARP Machine would actually, y'know, succeed, but not a chance in hell I give a penny to this with Al's track record.
> 
> Whats the over/under they don't reach their goal?



He was smart enough to pick Indigogo's "Flexible Funding" option, so at the very least he gets to keep all the money he crowdfunded.


----------



## Ralyks

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> He was smart enough to pick Indigogo's "Flexible Funding" option, so at the very least he gets to keep all the money he crowdfunded.



Then.... over/under on him actually using the money for the record?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

That's the vocalist from Shokran. Semeskys vocals on the first album were awesome, even if the lyrics were cringey in places, so he has a lot to live up to. 

Disclosure instrumental finally! 

I've had bad experiences with crowdfunders before so I'm hesitant now, especially with the turnover of musicians this band has but I'm dying to hear more haarp machine. Band drama aside Al has created such a unique sound and I'd love to hear the evolution of it. If wintersun got money for an already finished album then anything is possible.


----------



## StevenC

Shedding was the best song of 2018


----------



## cip 123

cwhitey2 said:


> Why the hell wouldn't they? (I have no info on the the matter)
> 
> This band is the biggest joke i have ever seen.
> 
> Why would any person in their right mind play with him? If he called me up i wouldn't even entertain the request.


I was mainly just making a joke about Al saying they "parted ways", man


----------



## Jonathan20022

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> I'm not going to contribute to the funding but I hope it gets released so I can hear the instrumental version, that vocalist is trash.



This whole crowdfund being a joke aside, you can't be serious right? How is the vocalist trash


----------



## RoRo56

I absolutely love the music this guy creates, but he won't get a cent of my money. How can he justify that ludicrous amount of money when everything is 90% finished? There's no way in hell Travis Orbin would have recorded and transcribed all the drum parts without getting paid up front. They filmed a music video in October and will only release it when he gets 66% of the money? Absolute joke.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Kaura said:


> I'd join THP in a heartbeat if the other option was to join some generic no-namer band. Despite all the haters I'm pretty sure this band still has some fans.


Yeah, me too (aside from I can't play most of the stuff he programmed in Guitar Pro). With a contract stating specifically how much I get paid on a weekly basis. This dude's track record of being impossible to work with is well documented, as well as his fraudulent "skill level". I hope nobody gives him any money. Being a shithead should not be rewarded.


----------



## sakeido

I would actually contribute to these guys' campaign, but what am I getting for $51 CAD? It doesn't say how you get the album... is it digital? That's a vinyl price point


----------



## Albake21

GunpointMetal said:


> (aside from I can't play most of the stuff he programmed in Guitar Pro).


Neither can he...


----------



## lewis

RoRo56 said:


> I absolutely love the music this guy creates, but he won't get a cent of my money. How can he justify that ludicrous amount of money when everything is 90% finished? There's no way in hell Travis Orbin would have recorded and transcribed all the drum parts without getting paid up front. They filmed a music video in October and will only release it when he gets 66% of the money? Absolute joke.


And even that his arrogance and weirdness ruined.

They got most of the song footage filmed then randomly he took his shirt off and let his hair down.

The guy taking the shoot then asked him to revert to how he was due to continuity issues (randomly going in and out of his hair being up then down, with shirt disappearing etc lol) but he refused and wanted everyone to be topless all of a sudden.

Then there was awkwardness on the shoot as the other dudes were like...we are not getting semi naked dude....

Hahah


----------



## MaxOfMetal

sakeido said:


> I would actually contribute to these guys' campaign, but what am I getting for $51 CAD? It doesn't say how you get the album... is it digital? That's a vinyl price point



Dude obviously rolls digital over analog.


----------



## Jonathan20022

This isn't getting released besides the music video

Please learn from these crowdfunding trainwrecks, Corelia dipped with 30k+ and hasn't said a word in 2 years. Don't be a moron and fund artists especially ones with crap history.


----------



## Mathemagician

I’ll let people with money to burn fund it. I’m not paying for a “band” when the main guy cannot keep members and has a history of projects falling through. 

If it comes out sure I’ll listen to it. But “hope” isn’t something I spend my money on. It’s the same trash as pre-ordering a game. 

I need a better track record of delivering than space-cadets like this guy.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Jonathan20022 said:


> This isn't getting released besides the music video
> 
> Please learn from these crowdfunding trainwrecks, Corelia dipped with 30k+ and hasn't said a word in 2 years. Don't be a moron and fund artists especially ones with crap history.



There's been silence from Wintersun for a long time despite a very successful crowdfunding campaign. I wonder where that money went.


----------



## lewis

Lorcan Ward said:


> There's been silence from Wintersun for a long time despite a very successful crowdfunding campaign. I wonder where that money went.


their bank accounts say hi


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Lorcan Ward said:


> There's been silence from Wintersun for a long time despite a very successful crowdfunding campaign. I wonder where that money went.



Didn't most of the money go towards a studio?

And a sauna? :lol


----------



## Albake21

Let's not forget Corelia... super glad I never funded that shit show at all.


----------



## Metropolis

Lorcan Ward said:


> There's been silence from Wintersun for a long time despite a very successful crowdfunding campaign. I wonder where that money went.



They're planning to do another one, they got 450k€ at the first one and 25% of it went to taxes, or something like that. I guess some of it went for equipment, touring expenses and salaries. Touring part lasted one and a half years after all, and it's not free, plus it takes almost all the time from that perioid. They have been couple of months very quiet in social media, so they must be working for something.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

Albake21 said:


> Let's not forget Corelia... super glad I never funded that shit show at all.



This still stings and I'm not over it yet.


----------



## vilk

The worst part of it is that Nostaliga is such a good album


----------



## Randy

Didn't know there was a Corelia "thing"


----------



## Jonathan20022

Metropolis said:


> They're planning to do another one, they got 450k€ at the first one and 25% of it went to taxes, or something like that. I guess some of it went for equipment, touring expenses and salaries. Touring part lasted one and a half years after all, and it's not free, plus it takes almost all the time from that perioid. They have been couple of months very quiet in social media, so they must be working for something.



Oh man I wonder how the rest of the world manages to tour and record music without 6 figures. Jari and Wintersun have impossible standards and spend far too much time and money on their art. I can tell from your avatar that you're a fan, but don't give excuses for ridiculous situations like this.



Randy said:


> Didn't know there was a Corelia "thing"



https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/corelia-2015-the-long-awaited-debut-album

200%+ of their goal was reached and radio silence after October of 2016. Protest the Hero led the front with a killer campaign and delivering on all their promises, but man is crowdfunding a simple and abuse-able idea. I haven't contributed to a single CF just because I saw these issues coming from a mile away, especially when the platforms hold no commitments to the creators of the content.


----------



## Metropolis

Jonathan20022 said:


> Oh man I wonder how the rest of the world manages to tour and record music without 6 figures. Jari and Wintersun have impossible standards and spend far too much time and money on their art. I can tell from your avatar that you're a fan, but don't give excuses for ridiculous situations like this.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/corelia-2015-the-long-awaited-debut-album
> 
> 200%+ of their goal was reached and radio silence after October of 2016. Protest the Hero led the front with a killer campaign and delivering on all their promises, but man is crowdfunding a simple and abuse-able idea. I haven't contributed to a single CF just because I saw these issues coming from a mile away, especially when the platforms hold no commitments to the creators of the content.



It must be way easier with that kind of money, but I don't think their standards are even out of this world when some other metal bands with enormously expensive productions have budgets like 500-800k for an album.


----------



## Demiurge

I don't think crowdfunding musicians is intrinsically bad, but it presents the tempting moral hazard found in other types of work. Before, it was that you work and then you get paid. Now, you get paid and you must work... if you want to. 

Anybody who has a salaried office job can probably relate: some people stay on task and get their shit done... others seem to rotate between chatting, smoking, and complaining about being busy while getting nothing done.


----------



## Jonathan20022

^^^ Nailed it.

I'm sure the sauna helps get those tracks out


----------



## bulb

sakeido said:


> I would actually contribute to these guys' campaign, but what am I getting for $51 CAD? It doesn't say how you get the album... is it digital? That's a vinyl price point


You should contribute for sure. Screencap for proof plz.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

I'll be amazed if this gets off the ground. 
Then I'll be even more amazed if they actually deliver.


----------



## cwhitey2

Metropolis said:


> It must be way easier with that kind of money, but I don't think their standards are even out of this world when some other metal bands with enormously expensive productions have budgets like 500-800k for an album.


Im interested in what metal bands spend 500-800k... other then the absolute obvious.


----------



## Ataraxia2320

cwhitey2 said:


> Im interested in what metal bands spend 500-800k... other then the absolute obvious.



I would say no record label is giving out more than 100k for a recording budget these days for any artist bar the absolute top tier legacy bands. 

Did anyone think that they need the money to buy out their Sumerian contract? 

That would absolutely make the most sense from my perspective. Didnt al say something about the money allowing them to buy their freedom? Maybe he meant it literally.


----------



## Flappydoodle

I don't get any of the hype. The music isn't even good, and the videos are so edited that it basically sounds like MIDI. He probably recorded them at 50% speed and used the flex tool to speed it up.


----------



## Metropolis

cwhitey2 said:


> Im interested in what metal bands spend 500-800k... other then the absolute obvious.



Nightwish for example, Imaginaerum did cost 500k and Dark Passion Play 800k. I suppose Epica has also huge budgets, but I haven't found any real information about that.


----------



## cwhitey2

Metropolis said:


> Nightwish for example, Imaginaerum did cost 500k and Dark Passion Play 800k. I suppose Epica has also huge budgets, but I haven't found any real information about that.


I'm going to listen to those albums today and let you know if it was worth the money they spent


----------



## p0ke

cwhitey2 said:


> I'm going to listen to those albums today and let you know if it was worth the money they spent



They were expensive because they don't do midi/vst stuff anymore. They record everything with real choirs and orchestras, so it's automatically expensive with all the personnel involved... I don't think making the albums "the expensive way" made them any better, but apparently it must've worth it for them since they're still doing it ...


----------



## cwhitey2

p0ke said:


> They were expensive because they don't do midi/vst stuff anymore. They record everything with real choirs and orchestras, so it's automatically expensive with all the personnel involved... I don't think making the albums "the expensive way" made them any better, but apparently it must've worth it for them since they're still doing it ...


Ok, that would make sense then.


----------



## Avedas

Jonathan20022 said:


> This isn't getting released besides the music video
> 
> Please learn from these crowdfunding trainwrecks, Corelia dipped with 30k+ and hasn't said a word in 2 years. Don't be a moron and fund artists especially ones with crap history.


I'll take any chance to praise the good ol Canadian boys who are Protest the Hero. Some real stand up dudes there, and seeing their shows regularly is one of the few things I miss about living in Canada. That's how you do a goddamn crowdfunding campaign.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

GunpointMetal said:


> Yeah, me too (aside from I can't play most of the stuff he programmed in Guitar Pro). With a contract stating specifically how much I get paid on a weekly basis. This dude's track record of being impossible to work with is well documented, as well as his fraudulent "skill level". I hope nobody gives him any money. Being a shithead should not be rewarded.



I agree with you, but I wouldn't exactly call that joining a band "in a heartbeat." Ol' boy sounds like he'd join this trainwreck of his band no questions asked just... because. Willing to go through the stress of being in a band for MAYBE a few months max with someone that's reportedly an asshole to be around.


----------



## anomynous

This has barely broken 1k pounds.


Glad it flopped.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Avedas said:


> I'll take any chance to praise the good ol Canadian boys who are Protest the Hero. Some real stand up dudes there, and seeing their shows regularly is one of the few things I miss about living in Canada. That's how you do a goddamn crowdfunding campaign.





Protests campaign was an all or nothing situation. They had been dropped by their label and convinced they had no future making music. They made a heartfelt video asking whatever fans they had left for support or it was the end for the band. The result, it got funded in 24 hours and the band has been going from strength to strength since. Too many crowdfunding campaigns are people not wanting to invest their own money and are looking for preorders with security, rather than we genuinely can't do this without your support.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> Protests campaign was an all or nothing situation. They had been dropped by their label and convinced they had no future making music. They made a heartfelt video asking whatever fans they had left for support or it was the end for the band.


 So...be a band without an security blanket?


Lorcan Ward said:


> Too many crowdfunding campaigns are people not wanting to invest their own money and are looking for preorders with security


 Like a band without a label would do without crowdfunding.
I love PtH, but those are literally the exact same situation. "Oh our label isn't supporting us any more and being a band may break us because we have to do it ourselves. Please help." is no different than "We really want to put out this independent album but the the cost may break us because we are self-supported, please help."


----------



## lewis

At this point I wish he would confirm the band is over, and try to be more a solo artist off his own back - rather than drag this band on far too long, and try to con people out of money on the back of how badly he has ill treated any human that has joined him and offered to help.


----------



## Albake21

lewis said:


> At this point I wish he would confirm the band is over, and try to be more a solo artist off his own back - rather than drag this band on far too long, and try to con people out of money on the back of how badly he has ill treated any human that has joined him and offered to help.


But then who will play the music he can't? Seriously, I don't think he could even make music on his own because he lacks the skill.


----------



## lewis

Albake21 said:


> But then who will play the music he can't? Seriously, I don't think he could even make music on his own because he lacks the skill.


And then show himself up as the fraudster he is and lose what fans he does have left lol


----------



## sakeido

bulb said:


> You should contribute for sure. Screencap for proof plz.



if it's a physical copy I'll hang it up next to the Threatin shirt I paid for and will probably never get

but somebody else asked the question of if it was a physical copy, it's a digital only release. They say they'll make a physical copy if there is enough demand but they only have 40 backers... so fuck that.


----------



## TheDandy




----------



## Albake21

So he took down the fundraiser video and the actual funding page. Then they just released the music video anyways? Lol


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

The vocals were as bad as I thought they'd be and that song was beyond boring. Interesting to see him using something other than his Strandbergs though.


----------



## Kaura

Not digging this at all. My main gripe is the vocals. They don't fit the song at all and just sound like washy, flat drone that covers the instruments (could be partially a mixing issue). And the instrument parts aren't even that overly complicated compared to some of their other stuff so you'd think the song would benefit from vocals. But nah. 

They really should have hired this guy or get Mike Semesky back, lol.


----------



## GunpointMetal

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> The vocals were as bad as I thought they'd be and that song was beyond boring. Interesting to see him using something other than his Strandbergs though.


100% didn't even make it through the first line of vocals.
Yikes. This is gonna suck. Oh well, no big loss.


----------



## Winspear

What a flop


----------



## RoRo56

Albake21 said:


> So he took down the fundraiser video and the actual funding page. Then they just released the music video anyways? Lol



No they're both still there. He released this update on the fundraiser page. 
"We're going with the flow and recalibrating as we go. 
Thank you to everyone who's pre-ordered so far  "


----------



## Demiurge

GunpointMetal said:


> 100% didn't even make it through the first line of vocals.
> Yikes. This is gonna suck. Oh well, no big loss.



But the song gets better when the vocals go tacit... and by that I mean when it ends there is literally a vocal line over the entire composition after the intro. Never stops. The singer must have gills or something.


----------



## lewis

I know alot of the ins and outs about this band and this music video, as a friend of my band is the drummer in this.

Its hilarious the level of crap that you have to put up with from Al. Even this video shoot descended into a farce thanks to him. On set arguments he created and stupid ideas that jeopardised the whole thing

Dont get me started on the actual music too hahah

absolutely dreadful

EDIT: The fundraiser was a con job. It was mostly going to be used to settle some of Als debts


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Sounds like when you unmute your speakers to listen to a YouTube song but iTunes was still playing.

Same problem as BOO's new song, the constant vocals and layers don't allow the song to breathe. Those vocals would have worked much better with a different backing track, a much more simple chordal accompaniment where they are the main focus instead of battling the guitars for space. Hopefully there are better songs in the future.


----------



## anomynous

Boring AF


----------



## r33per

RoRo56 said:


> "We're going with the flow and recalibrating as we go..."


I'm not sure what this means. Are the recalibrating themselves, the flow or something else? I'm so confused...


----------



## xCaptainx

It sounds like the vocals from a completely different song was pasted over the top? 

Surely you'd think an interesting progressive vocal delivery would take advantage of, and experiment alongside the rhythms of all the instruments and interesting syncopation that the guitar delivery has. 

But it seems like the vocalist decided to ignore them completely? 

Baffling.


----------



## Kaura

I don't know if it's just because I've heard the song couple of times already but the mix seems to be a lot clearer on Spotify compared to Youtube. The whole mix seems somehow wider with the vocals narrowed in the center instead of masking the whole mix.


----------



## Obsidian Soul

I actually like the new single.The guitar riffs feel really inspiring and the vocals remind me of some old school bands my mom would listen to back on the day.However,I would agree that the vocalist kind of drones on too much instead of making more interesting/surprising vocal melodies.


----------



## TheDandy

Way better instrumental imo


----------



## Randy

For a band with a reputation for people unable to perform the material live, getting Orbo to play the drums is an interesting move.


----------



## Randy

TheDandy said:


>




Vocals and song itself aren't what I'd call 'bad'. The issues is that the vocals don't give the song any room to breathe since they're over literally every single inch of it, and they're drenched in reverb. Would be better with the vocals placed more sparely and a better mix.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Randy said:


> For a band with a reputation for people unable to perform the material live, getting Orbo to play the drums is an interesting move.


I think so far its just been Al who hasn't been able to pull it off live. He keeps collecting solid musicians, but they end up quitting because from all accounts he's a hack and an egomaniac.


----------



## aesthyrian

Randy said:


> For a band with a reputation for people unable to perform the material live, getting Orbo to play the drums is an interesting move.



Just a paid session... I hope. I mean, he's definitely not in the music video. Orbin does a shit load of session projects in a year, plus his own material, and a full-time position in Darkest Hour. I assume that his drums were safely recorded in a completely separate continent than Al, and I doubt Travis has any desires or intentions to go any further. Darkest Hour is a much bigger band, with a solid lineup.. I certainly hope he isn't thinking of giving that up to work with a part-time musician, full-time lunatic such as Al.


----------



## lewis

I have it on excellent authority that the vocalist was tasked with writing the lyrics and patterns the day before the Music video shoot (thanks to Al and how he operates) No wonder they are weird and struggle to work properly


----------



## Randy

aesthyrian said:


> Just a paid session... I hope. I mean, he's definitely not in the music video. Orbin does a shit load of session projects in a year, plus his own material, and a full-time position in Darkest Hour. I assume that his drums were safely recorded in a completely separate continent than Al, and I doubt Travis has any desires or intentions to go any further. Darkest Hour is a much bigger band, with a solid lineup.. I certainly hope he isn't thinking of giving that up to work with a part-time musician, full-time lunatic such as Al.



Oh I know that, I actually was referring to how hard it's going to be to find someone to play Orbo's parts, that is willing to take Al' shit


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

lewis said:


> I have it on excellent authority that the vocalist was tasked with writing the lyrics and patterns the day before the Music video shoot (thanks to Al and how he operates) No wonder they are weird and struggle to work properly



That certainly does explain a lot. 
Kind of a bummer since his delivery seemed pretty solid, the composition was just all over the place and not that great. Shame he was up against a wall like that.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I read Alexi Laiho often writes lyrics the day of recording, sometimes while recording, which shows in a lot of songs but that is a whole new level. It makes it even more puzzling why the vocals don't stop to at all. Surely he would have said had more breaks then unless it was Al's decision.


----------



## Kaura

Lorcan Ward said:


> I read Alexi Laiho often writes lyrics the day of recording, sometimes while recording, which shows in a lot of songs but that is a whole new level. It makes it even more puzzling why the vocals don't stop to at all. Surely he would have said had more breaks then unless it was Al's decision.



I'm pretty sure it was Al who said on the Youtube comments that the idea of the vocals is to carry the listener through the song or something so that makes me think that Al had a pretty big say in how the vocals work.


----------



## GunpointMetal

lewis said:


> I have it on excellent authority that the vocalist was tasked with writing the lyrics and patterns the day before the Music video shoot (thanks to Al and how he operates) No wonder they are weird and struggle to work properly


This sounds like a total dick move, and probably would have been reason enough for me to walk right there (not that I'd ever end up in that position anyways, but, ya know)



Lorcan Ward said:


> I read Alexi Laiho often writes lyrics the day of recording, sometimes while recording, which shows in a lot of songs but that is a whole new level. It makes it even more puzzling why the vocals don't stop to at all. Surely he would have said had more breaks then unless it was Al's decision.


And this sounds like some of the laziest shit I've ever heard of. No wonder CoB songs always sounded cheesy AF to me.


----------



## Demiurge

Kaura said:


> I'm pretty sure it was Al who said on the Youtube comments that the idea of the vocals is to carry the listener through the song or something so that makes me think that Al had a pretty big say in how the vocals work.



Sure, but he should know what else can "carry the listener" through the song: a well-planned arrangement with dynamics, ebb-and-flow, etc. Sure, we're used constant notes/constant playing for guitar, but when it's the vocals it makes one realize how lazy & grating it can be.


----------



## Kaura

Demiurge said:


> Sure, but he should know what else can "carry the listener" through the song: a well-planned arrangement with dynamics, ebb-and-flow, etc. Sure, we're used constant notes/constant playing for guitar, but when it's the vocals it makes one realize how lazy & grating it can be.



Yeah, I wasn't trying to defend the vocals. They suck. I guess it's just a nice idea to have the focus on vocals but the execution just didn't work this time.


----------



## RoRo56

Lorcan Ward said:


> I read Alexi Laiho often writes lyrics the day of recording, sometimes while recording, which shows in a lot of songs but that is a whole new level. It makes it even more puzzling why the vocals don't stop to at all. Surely he would have said had more breaks then unless it was Al's decision.



It's been said before that Al has control over the whole project. He wrote 90% of the lyrics to Disclosure as well and I couldn't imagine him wanting to give someone else that short a notice to write and record vocals to go with his vision of the music.


----------



## lurè

This guy missed lesson 1 of "how to be in a band" course: don't be an asshole.


----------



## InCasinoOut

Tried listening to both the version with vocals, and Orbin's instrumental playthrough. Definitely sounds better without those terrible vocals that _just don't stop_, but man, I feel like the whole composition is meandering and going nowhere the whole time. Reminds me of when you're dicking around in Guitar Pro with no direction in mind, writing without a guitar in hand, so you end up with a weird start to a song that should probably just be deleted or left to sit unfinished forever. Except they actually recorded it and made a music video.


----------



## nyxzz

InCasinoOut said:


> Tried listening to both the version with vocals, and Orbin's instrumental playthrough. Definitely sounds better without those terrible vocals that _just don't stop_, but man, I feel like the whole composition is meandering and going nowhere the whole time. Reminds me of when you're dicking around in Guitar Pro with no direction in mind, writing without a guitar in hand, so you end up with a weird start to a song that should probably just be deleted or left to sit unfinished forever. Except they actually recorded it and made a music video.



This. It sounds like basically two 4 second riffs repeated over the entire song. The parts in isolation are kind of neat but when repeated 1000 times it's just kind of grating and boring. Shedding was a lot cooler imo


----------



## Musiscience

lewis said:


> And even that his arrogance and weirdness ruined.
> 
> They got most of the song footage filmed then randomly he took his shirt off and let his hair down.
> 
> The guy taking the shoot then asked him to revert to how he was due to continuity issues (randomly going in and out of his hair being up then down, with shirt disappearing etc lol) but he refused and wanted everyone to be topless all of a sudden.
> 
> Then there was awkwardness on the shoot as the other dudes were like...we are not getting semi naked dude....
> 
> Hahah



I watched the video again with that in mind and these "golden" topless scenes now make so much more sense


----------



## lewis

Musiscience said:


> I watched the video again with that in mind and these "golden" topless scenes now make so much more sense




Pure comedy gold right? haha


----------



## Musiscience

lewis said:


> Pure comedy *gold* right? haha



I see what you did there haha


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

wow....5 days to go and only 7% (75 backers) so far.


----------



## RoRo56

M3CHK1LLA said:


> wow....5 days to go and only 7% (75 backers) so far.



It's a shame because I feel that a lot of people would buy the album/perks if the album was ready to release. While I do believe he'll eventually get it over the line and release it, there's no way in hell I'd give the dude money up front for a project that's been "finished" for nearly 5 years.


----------



## Velokki

Al Mu'min, Chris Letchford and Michael Keene should do a collab, with BRJ supplying the guitars


----------



## TheKindred

Velokki said:


> Al Mu'min, Chris Letchford and Michael Keene should do a collab, with BRJ supplying the guitars



no Lucas Mann, no deal


----------



## nsimonsen

I can't help but laugh at not even reaching the 10% mark of their goal.

I would like to say that this might be a wake-up call for Al, but it won't be.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

nsimonsen said:


> I can't help but laugh at not even reaching the 10% mark of their goal.
> 
> I would like to say that this might be a wake-up call for Al, but it won't be.



ended up w/ 8%....only 85 backers. he didn't raise enough, but he gets to keep the 2731 gbp


----------



## Lorcan Ward

GunpointMetal said:


> So...be a band without an security blanket?
> Like a band without a label would do without crowdfunding.
> I love PtH, but those are literally the exact same situation. "Oh our label isn't supporting us any more and being a band may break us because we have to do it ourselves. Please help." is no different than "We really want to put out this independent album but the the cost may break us because we are self-supported, please help."



To me there is a massive difference between:

a band with a concrete back track record who got dropped by their label and told they had no fans so they made a heartfelt plea to fund their new album. 

An artist who has had label support for 6 years but couldn't get an album out because of constantly firing members, cancelling tours and doing anything but recording so he's now expecting fans to replace his label. 

It's precisely the reason why the kickstarter was a failure. Fans of the band don't have faith in giving him money.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Lorcan Ward said:


> To me there is a massive difference between:
> 
> a band with a concrete back track record who got dropped by their label and told they had no fans so they made a heartfelt plea to fund their new album.
> 
> An artist who has had label support for 6 years but couldn't get an album out because of constantly firing members, cancelling tours and doing anything but recording so he's now expecting fans to replace his label.
> 
> It's precisely the reason why the kickstarter was a failure. Fans of the band don't have faith in giving him money.


I never said that they were supposed to be treated the same, but their reasons for doing crowdfunding were the same.
"Making a record is expensive, we don't wanna pay for it ourselves, so if you want it, pay for it for us." 
And obviously The Haack Machine was full of it, because the shit is going ahead anyways. PtH probably could have found someone else to fund their record, too, but they didn't wanna get tied to a label, so they crowd-sourced it, and I'm glad it worked out.


----------



## RoRo56

Don't know if anyone listens but their former Drummer/Producer Craig Reynolds has a podcast (The Downbeat) and he talks about HAARP in the last one w/ Anup Sastry. Well worth a listen for anyone interested in hearing some insider backstory. Craig recorded drums and engineered all the instruments except for guitar and when he was pushed out of the band he kept the multi-tracks until they got the advance from Sumerian to pay for his time. 

He had a few choice words to say about Mike Semesky too.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

GunpointMetal said:


> The Haack Machine



HAH. Oh man, how have I not seen this one before?


----------



## GunpointMetal

Ordacleaphobia said:


> HAH. Oh man, how have I not seen this one before?


That's what I've been calling 'em since the live videos from their first tour surfaced with Al plinking his way through every song or straight-up miming to a track.


----------



## Frostbite

I don't know what I just watched. Some hardcore delusion going on here


----------



## Kaura

That ending pic though.


----------



## Demiurge

Frostbite said:


> I don't know what I just watched. Some hardcore delusion going on here



About the part where he claimed that the IndieGoGo was successful or the belief that people will watch a 6 minute video of someone talking to a camera 10 feet away when 4 minutes of him stringing together random notes is big enough ask?


----------



## Frostbite

Demiurge said:


> About the part where he claimed that the IndieGoGo was successful or the belief that people will watch a 6 minute video of someone talking to a camera 10 feet away when 4 minutes of him stringing together random notes is big enough ask?


Yes


----------



## I play music

Frostbite said:


> I don't know what I just watched. Some hardcore delusion going on here



I thought that was a weird way of writing RIP and an announcement to not continue the harp machine. But looks like not (did not watch all of it).


----------



## lewis

hahaha he talks like he is a pioneer or some sort of philosopher hahaha

"Follow me as we embark on this journey"
what about the trail of destruction you left behind you travelling the previous "journey"'s?

or do we just sweep that under the rug?

what.a.tool

His way of talking grates on me but Im not going to use that against him because its a cultural thing and alot of london'ers speak like that now. So thats not something to use against him, but everything else is just hilarious.

This is starting to come across now like the "big Shaq" mans not hot parody. Like, he is legit a parody of himself at this point.

Hilariously, delusion-ally, shit


----------



## Blasphemer

I'm a big fan of him talking about how people weren't happy with the mix and dismissed it by essentially saying "Your opinion is wrong, and the mix doesn't matter". What an insecure tool.


----------



## bulb

Kaura said:


> That ending pic though.



Haha am I allowed to enjoy this or should I just stay out of it?

Probably should just stay out of it, but my god I’m enjoying this so much. I’ll stay out of it.


----------



## wannabguitarist

bulb said:


> Haha am I allowed to enjoy this or should I just stay out of it?
> 
> Probably should just stay out of it, but my god I’m enjoying this so much. I’ll stay out of it.



No please jump in. Which songs on the new album use FAGDAD tuning?


----------



## aesthyrian

Yes, this is all very enjoyable but not thanks to any of the music.


----------



## bulb

wannabguitarist said:


> No please jump in. Which songs on the new album use FAGDAD tuning?



Nah, I’m trying to be a better person, and despite the fact that this whole thing is just constantly delivering on the Schadenfreude, I think it’s best I just sit back, keep to myself and just have fun with it hahah


----------



## Kaura

bulb said:


> Haha am I allowed to enjoy this or should I just stay out of it?
> 
> Probably should just stay out of it, but my god I’m enjoying this so much. I’ll stay out of it.



If taking part in an internet drama is something you enjoy then be my guest. More spicy memes for rest of us to enjoy.


----------



## nsimonsen

Wasn't the whole pitch for the crowdfunding that they were dying to be an independent band, so they can avoid labels at all cost?

Now Al is pitching to labels to garner interest and bankroll the album?

This is some next level delusion.


----------



## anomynous

Super cringy video


----------



## Frostbite

Honestly, I think part of Al's issue at this point, among the things everyone has stated, is that he doesn't understand his audience. The audience his music would interest are guitar nerds mostly. I think he's hoping he can gain a fan base that doesn't know/care how shitty all this is when the only people who would even care in the first place are the people spending their time on forums and are well aware of all the delusion.

Edit: Or he's just so up his own ass that he thinks he can write music that people will forget that he threatened to burn peoples houses down.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Parts of that video are solid, like addressing concerns and responding/poking humor at himself. But it's still coming off from a place of pretentiousness and delusion.


----------



## Sebski

I've never heard Al talk before but wow he chats a lot of shit. Sounds like the kinda guy who's on a pyramid scheme.

Flawed metaphors aside, I didn't actually think the vocals were that jarring on the instrumentation. More so that the song was pretty dull.

That Mark Morton mix is actually ten times better than what was released, so if the rest of the album can sound like that then I'm happy.

And fair play to him for acknowledging that the crowdfunder was a flop.

Despite how much of a tit the guy is, I still want this album. I'm still holding out on Corelia so I've still got a few years before I get impatient on this one.


----------



## aesthyrian

Sebski said:


> I'm still holding out on Corelia so I've still got a few years before I get impatient on this one.



Oh, you poor thing.


----------



## Acaciastrain360




----------



## Frostbite

Acaciastrain360 said:


>


Knew this would be posted the second I watched it. It's fantastic. I honestly get more and more impressed that kmac keeps staying relevant. Dude's really funny


----------



## Acaciastrain360

Frostbite said:


> Knew this would be posted the second I watched it. It's fantastic. I honestly get more and more impressed that kmac keeps staying relevant. Dude's really funny


Yeah man! Also his down picking is FLAWLESS


----------



## Velokki

Holy shit that parody video was funny. I lost it on multiple occasions. Genius.


----------



## GunpointMetal

That was awesome. I just about spit out my water on the keyboard when Guitar Pro crashed.


----------



## InCasinoOut

Dropping the pick and the music still going had me laughing. And I don't even like Kmac or Youtube meme guitarists in general, but that video was spot on! Song was better than the new HAARP machine track too.


----------



## gunch

Holy fuck lmao 2019's top takedown spot has already been claimed


----------



## ramses

Acaciastrain360 said:


>




Whoa! This kid is actually talented writer/satirist, and with a good voice.


----------



## lewis

Acaciastrain360 said:


>



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## gunch

rec some stuff that's like Haarp like Sol 2183 and Epitome


----------



## isispelican

fucking dead, well done Kmac


----------



## NosralTserrof

I think the best part about the vid is that he's wearing a Corellia shirt under his hoodie...


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Kmac is hilarious! Chap is very talented too, parts of that parody song were better than the Haarp Machines new song.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

Kmac's a diamond in the shit that is metal meme youtube.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Kmac's a diamond in the shit that is metal meme youtube.



Yeah I low key keep looking for a reason to stop watching him because most other youtube guitarists have let me down but kmachiavelli consistently delivers.
The djent on a telecaster video actually has some absolutely disgusting riffs in it.


----------



## xCaptainx

That's better than the song he's taking the piss out of haha. Nice.


----------



## Acaciastrain360

Frostbite said:


> I don't know what I just watched. Some hardcore delusion going on here



His onscreen awkwardness is cringe AF!! 
But I don’t get the Misha reference at the end, can anyone shed some light? x


----------



## lewis

Acaciastrain360 said:


> His onscreen awkwardness is cringe AF!!
> But I don’t get the Misha reference at the end, can anyone shed some light? x


The best part of that is where he basically says if you dont like the songs then you are closed minded and dont understand it haha then gives some terrible analogy about fusion food places?

What a true pioneer we have on our hands.
#moron
The sarcasm around the failed crowd fund thing at the start is so awkward and irritating too.
Guy is just a complete cretin. At this point who would honestly be dumb enough to have paid this clown a single penny?


----------



## Avedas

I'm not sure if the parody video or the band "leader" holding a MacBook and defending himself against YouTube comments is more hilarious but I'm loving every second of this


----------



## Acaciastrain360

lewis said:


> The best part of that is where he basically says if you dont like the songs then you are closed minded and dont understand it haha then gives some terrible analogy about fusion food places?
> 
> What a true pioneer we have on our hands.
> #moron
> The sarcasm around the failed crowd fund thing at the start is so awkward and irritating too.
> Guy is just a complete cretin. At this point who would honestly be dumb enough to have paid this clown a single penny?


I still don’t get why Misha is involved?


----------



## brutalwizard

Acaciastrain360 said:


> I still don’t get why Misha is involved?



Problz the redacted comments from this very thread years ago. Or i imagine they play some part in it.


----------



## lewis

Acaciastrain360 said:


> I still don’t get why Misha is involved?


lol me either


----------



## Lorcan Ward

From what I remember a lot of musicians had a go at Al for using note by note, midi editing etc when recording guitars but then he pointed out that periphery, animals as leaders, the faceless etc record the exact same way and he even learned that approach from Dez who learned it from Nolly, it pissed a LOT of guys off. As if it's some secret why modern guitars are so surgically tight on the grid but people get super defensive when called out on it. That's only some of it, there was quite a bit of back and forth on Facebook.


----------



## Kaura

I could swear that Al made a long post somewhere here a couple of years ago basicly talking about their production methods but I can't find it at least in this thread. Maybe it was in the Periphery thread.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

lewis said:


> The best part of that is where he basically says if you dont like the songs then you are closed minded and dont understand it haha then gives some terrible analogy about fusion food places?
> 
> What a true pioneer we have on our hands.
> #moron
> The sarcasm around the failed crowd fund thing at the start is so awkward and irritating too.
> Guy is just a complete cretin. At this point who would honestly be dumb enough to have paid this clown a single penny?



I actually thought that acknowledging the failed campaign was a good move- even though the execution was a bit eyeroll-inducing. But that's just Al.
The whole thing would have come across as much more sincere if he didn't dismiss the critics as 'closed-minded'. Trying new things is...yeah, 'progressive metal,' but just because it's new doesn't mean it's good. It's ok to just admit that something didn't work out and that you're going to keep trying new things to find something that does; but again...that's just Al, I guess.

The Misha quip at the end and presumably why Misha is so entertained here is because Misha had a dig at Al a while back when the first album came out. Clearly Al never got over it.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Acaciastrain360 said:


> I still don’t get why Misha is involved?







> Since all my band members left me here at the apt, I figured I might as well disclose how to play Scarlet for to show you guys!



It's a little subtle


----------



## RoboKopp

Frostbite said:


> I don't know what I just watched. Some hardcore delusion going on here




I feel like I just watched an episode of People Just Do Nothing....


----------



## sakeido

wannabguitarist said:


> It's a little subtle




plus "people have been haarping on me" and "I didn't half time to do this"

but the tuning joke.... ooooof. 2013 was a different time


----------



## mastapimp

sakeido said:


> plus "people have been haarping on me" and "I didn't half time to do this"
> 
> but the tuning joke.... ooooof. 2013 was a different time



"...you know Al-Mumin, so...."


----------



## Albake21

wannabguitarist said:


> It's a little subtle



Man this went way over my head for far too long....


----------



## Sogradde

lewis said:


> The best part of that is where he basically says if you dont like the songs then you are closed minded and dont understand it haha then gives some terrible analogy about fusion food places?


Not sure if he was trolling but he specifically called the people who don't like his stuff "Trump Supporters". What's with """artists""" and virtue signalling?


----------



## lewis

Sogradde said:


> Not sure if he was trolling but he specifically called the people who don't like his stuff "Trump Supporters". What's with """artists""" and virtue signalling?


yeah noticed that. No idea. What a tool.


----------



## Demiurge

A strange accusation. Look:

"We're going to build a wall [of artlessly-composed riffs, stitched-together in ProTools] and we're going to make [fans in] Mexico [and other countries] pay for it!"

Like two peas in a pod, really.


----------



## bulb

To be clear my issue wasn’t doing note by note production, tons of bands do it, we have done it, in my opinion do what you want in the studio, it’s a composition.

The bit I was disappointed with was that he had a supposed playthrough of one of his songs that I actually thought was very impressive, I thought this might be one of the guys pushing guitar forward from a technique standpoint because it was unbelievably clean. Come to find out that it was not only mimed, but mimed to a very edited track.

I’d say that was disappointing but nothing beyond that. However I then found out that live, he was having his playing basically lowered to where you couldn’t hear it, and had the super edited “robot” guitar as what the audience hears.

I suppose finding out that he was doing “mimed” live guitars bummed me out. I probably lashed out as a combination of disappointment, and frustration with people lauding his live skills, combined with jealousy and insecurity on my part.

Ultimately I should have left it alone, and I have since that whole thing. The bad was mine on that one. To be honest, I kinda forgot about it because it was a while ago, and I assumed maybe he let it go, but I guess he’s still sore. 

Hope that clears it up


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

No ones upset with you Misha, you were just having fun with it.


----------



## bulb

BIG ND SWEATY said:


> No ones upset with you Misha, you were just having fun with it.



I wasn’t at that time, though. But I’m glad no one is upset. Now I just have fun with it, it’s literally my favorite thing to do!


----------



## Konfyouzd

RoboKopp said:


> I feel like I just watched an episode of People Just Do Nothing....


Bang lyrical blow to the jaw!


----------



## Sogradde

bulb said:


> [...]


This is probably the one thing where the entirety of SSO agrees with you.
After all these years! :')


----------



## RoRo56

They were just announced for Euroblast so we'll see how that goes




.


----------



## GunpointMetal

RoRo56 said:


> They were just announced for Euroblast so we'll see how that goes
> 
> 
> 
> .


What are the numbers on most of the current "band" quitting before then?


----------



## sezna

Was Euroblast the one that gave The Faceless a shot when it was obvious they'd cancel?


----------



## scrgls

so I hear The Haarp Machine is back in town and after a bit of digging I see the al isn't with strandberg anymore and uses an LTD V. nothing wrong with those guitars at all but at least go with an ESP standard or something, y'know? did ola and him have a falling out or sumtn


----------



## lewis

scrgls said:


> so I hear The Haarp Machine is back in town and after a bit of digging I see the al isn't with strandberg anymore and uses an LTD V. nothing wrong with those guitars at all but at least go with an ESP standard or something, y'know? did ola and him have a falling out or sumtn


I think alot of companies got tired of him and his antics.
They came to terms of an early release from their contract with their label too. And the crowdfund me they wanted for a new album (£30,000 target - that failed epically) was actually mostly to pay off debts and early contract release. Al just lied about it and billed it as album expenses.

Guys an absolute waster. I personally know the drummer that was going to perform with them last year at Techfest before al cancelled it last minute. Its the same guy that appeared on drums in the brand new video they just dropped.
(And that was a hilarious shit show too - his antics on the shoot were laughable)


----------



## Avedas

scrgls said:


> so I hear The Haarp Machine is back in town and after a bit of digging I see the al isn't with strandberg anymore and uses an LTD V. nothing wrong with those guitars at all but at least go with an ESP standard or something, y'know? did ola and him have a falling out or sumtn


Maybe he took Ola's passport too


----------



## Meh

This just happened:


----------



## Albake21




----------



## DeathbyDesign

The video made him sound like the Tony Robbins of empty promises - "Guys I have done all this stuff but I promise you will never see or hear it any time soon".


----------



## cwhitey2




----------



## RoRo56

I get the feeling that this dude is just massively trolling people for the last 6 years hahaha


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Just put the album out or fuck off.


----------



## Randy

Holy shit does this guy come across as self entitled.


----------



## anomynous

Wait, so the vocalist quit/was already "fired?"

Album's never being finished


----------



## Ralyks

.... Yup, that just happened alright.


----------



## aesthyrian

Can't wait for the Corelia/HAARP Machine split album!


----------



## KnightBrolaire

aesthyrian said:


> Can't wait for the Corelia/HAARP Machine split album!


ooooooooof i forgot about Corelia


----------



## Aumann

KnightBrolaire said:


> ooooooooof i forgot about Corelia


Does anyone know what became of Corelia?  I wanna have closure goddamnit.

And about the HAARP machine, i just can't be bothered to be interested anymore. I find him such an entitled prick that i don't want to give him a penny.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Damn thought the bump was for new music.


----------



## DLG

you should have known better


----------



## Aumann

Lorcan Ward said:


> Damn thought the bump was for new music.


Don't hope for it, he's a youtube now


----------



## Lorcan Ward

DLG said:


> you should have known better



#teamnecrophagistnewalbum2019


----------



## ChugThisBoy

Lorcan Ward said:


> #teamnecrophagistnewalbum2019



Yeah, sure.. sad reactions only


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

KnightBrolaire said:


> ooooooooof i forgot about Corelia



I try to, anyway.
Thanks for that, guys


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

wannabguitarist said:


> It's a little subtle




LOL, Who is this Misha fella?

That was pretty awesome tbh.


----------



## Jacksonluvr636

Not gonna quote it but I saw Misha's response on pg 29. I kinda feel the same. It is weak and borderline fraud IMO.

So the guy can play his ass off and write incredible shit. I get that, I have wrote some riffs that were pretty difficult for me to play at a time (I am no guitar god) but I practiced until I got it.

Using backing tracks and not actually being able to pull it off is basically lip sync in my opinion. Like idk, to each their own. I don't hate the guy for it and the songs are still crazy good but I just find it weak and I would never be able to do that type of thing myself and be content.


----------



## MiPwnYew

Well this was cool to see played for real, and so clean.


----------



## Kaura

MiPwnYew said:


> Well this was cool to see played for real, and so clean.




I don't know who wins the award for the most lack of enthusiasm while playing, this guy or Al Moomin.


----------



## coreysMonster

This guy only has 3.5k subscribers because he doesn't play through a 5k setup and spend half the video telling you about it. He's SERIOUSLY good.


----------



## lurè

coreysMonster said:


> This guy only has 3.5k subscribers because he doesn't play through a 5k setup and spend half the video telling you about it. He's SERIOUSLY good.



Practically Al Mumim's exact opposite


----------



## mikernaut

Yeah, but Kevin is legit and can actually play the songs  Also remember he was in the band for a stint and sounds like he might be doing an upcoming show again with Haarp.


----------



## coreysMonster

Don't forget the video of him playing that 15% faster


----------



## Musiscience

Frostbite said:


> I don't know what I just watched. Some hardcore delusion going on here




VERY late to the party but... it sounds like he had a moment of clarity. 

“Maybe I’m just delusional” 

Also the pic of Misha at the end, like he cares at all after all these years...


----------



## BIG ND SWEATY

Kevin is also Defeated Sanity's live guitarist, dude is a monster player.


----------



## Necropitated

Kaura said:


> I don't know who wins the award for the most lack of enthusiasm while playing, this guy or Al Moomin.



After 10+ takes for a song you kinda lose that enthusiasm 
I reserve that for live shows hehe.



coreysMonster said:


> This guy only has 3.5k subscribers because he doesn't play through a 5k setup and spend half the video telling you about it. He's SERIOUSLY good.



Thanks man, that setup was sub 1k haha. I actually want to take youtube more seriously in the future, getting a new camera, talking and showing some stuff to get more subscribers and maybe make some money with it. At least that's what I'm planning. 
I'm still too busy with my apprenticeship for another year but after that it will be all about music again ;-)




BIG ND SWEATY said:


> Kevin is also Defeated Sanity's live guitarist, dude is a monster player.



Thanks man, we couldn't get on the same page for joining permanently but I'm still their go-to fill in guitar player 
Though they currently have 2 serious candidates they want to tour with to get a feel with them and then they'll probably decide who's joining them full-time.


----------



## Velokki

The one thing that throws me off a lot, is how Al Mu'min always refers to "us":
"We're currently making..."
"Our next chapter..."
"We really dug deep in ourselves, to find that inspiration..."

Who the fuck is "us" or "we"? His 5 different personalities?


----------



## aesthyrian

Since Kevin is here and we're all fanboying over his playing, rightfully so... here's my fav WTF HOLY SHIT video of his. Like... what the fuck did I watch. And he did 400 takes according to the description. Not quite as cool though since he's playing a decent guitar and not an Ibanez GIO.. weird flex but I dig it!


----------



## coreysMonster

Velokki said:


> The one thing that throws me off a lot, is how Al Mu'min always refers to "us":
> "We're currently making..."
> "Our next chapter..."
> "We really dug deep in ourselves, to find that inspiration..."
> 
> Who the fuck is "us" or "we"? His 5 different personalities?


It's like when somebody starts an LLC but doesn't have any employees or partners. "We at Just One Guy LLC have X to offer" etc. I've had the same problem talking about some of my projects before, because it was just me, but it sounds awkward saying "I" all the time. Comes across as egocentric.


----------



## Velokki

coreysMonster said:


> It's like when somebody starts an LLC but doesn't have any employees or partners. "We at Just One Guy LLC have X to offer" etc. I've had the same problem talking about some of my projects before, because it was just me, but it sounds awkward saying "I" all the time. Comes across as egocentric.


Haha, yeah, exactly! I always speak of "my/our band" for people outside of music, too, even though 99% it's just me writing stuff.

But in Al Mu'min's case... I don't know anything that _wouldn't_ be egocentric =D


----------



## lewis

Can someone tell me how some of us are grafting so damn hard and would never dream of conning people or treating them as bad as he has and continues to do - yet STILL they get on Euroblast?

I cant even get emails back from Promoters and this numpty waster lands on his feet yet again?.
Jesus H Christ


----------



## Acaciastrain360

lewis said:


> Can someone tell me how some of us are grafting so damn hard and would never dream of conning people or treating them as bad as he has and continues to do - yet STILL they get on Euroblast?
> 
> I cant even get emails back from Promoters and this numpty waster lands on his feet yet again?.
> Jesus H Christ


It’s all in the programming mate


----------



## ThePIGI King

lewis said:


> Can someone tell me how some of us are grafting so damn hard and would never dream of conning people or treating them as bad as he has and continues to do - yet STILL they get on Euroblast?
> 
> I cant even get emails back from Promoters and this numpty waster lands on his feet yet again?.
> Jesus H Christ


The album he released is awesome. That's how. You don't have to be a good person to succeed. Look at the horror stories of Obscura's front man, and Chris Letchford, and Vektor's front man, all being accused of being crappy people, yet popular.

I'm not saying your music isn't good, I've never heard it, which I could be missing out on. But HAARPs album is pretty darn good, and people pay/show up for good music, not nice people behind an instrument.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Promoters still book The faceless barely a year after they abruptly cancelled a show or entire tour in their country.


----------



## lewis

Their latest single was trash though? Are they still living off the first album glory? Because thats well old now, with a long since changed lineup - so makes it even worse.

Not to merion the "music" people claim to rate - he couldnt even play live for years.
At some point people need to start making a stand against these fools


----------



## Aumann

lewis said:


> Their latest single was trash though? Are they still living off the first album glory? Because thats well old now, with a long since changed lineup - so makes it even worse.
> 
> Not to merion the "music" people claim to rate - he couldnt even play live for years.
> At some point people need to start making a stand against these fools



Exactly, i don't really listen to music for the people behind it. But when i know the people behind it are hypocritical and pretentious asswhipes, it makes me less inclined to listen.

And it's not like what they put out recently was good enough to hold my attention for long.


----------



## lewis

To add - there is huge differences between say Tim in As I Lay dying and their recent return and this dude/band.

Tim broke the law, got caught and was punished. He at least served jail time as a punishment and it seems like - he is a reformed character from it.

What punishment, accountability or anything else has gone Haarp Machines way?
The dude has had absolutely zero repercussions from his actions and is still getting things served upto him.
Euroblast at the drop of a hat?

He should be forced to hit the scene in tiny venues, and work his way back up by proving himself again.

Instead his unreal and awful behaviour continues un punished and he lands Euroblast. What a shambles.

I think this paints Euroblast in a bad light too potentially. Who wants known troublemakers and losers on festivals?


----------



## Lozek

lewis said:


> What punishment, accountability or anything else has gone Haarp Machines way? The dude has had absolutely zero repercussions from his actions and is still getting things served upto him.
> Euroblast at the drop of a hat?
> 
> He should be forced to hit the scene in tiny venues, and work his way back up by proving himself again.
> 
> Instead his unreal and awful behaviour continues un punished and he lands Euroblast. What a shambles.
> 
> I think this paints Euroblast in a bad light too potentially. Who wants known troublemakers and losers on festivals?



Festivals always have one or two contentious picks that get the internet buzzing and, given that I hadn't even heard of Euroblast until three pages ago, it's proving to be a shrewd move. I appreciate your sense of justice but that's definitely not the way it works, some of the biggest assholes that I've ever met now occupy top slots in the music industry.


----------



## aesthyrian

lewis said:


> To add - there is huge differences between say Tim in As I Lay dying and their recent return and this dude/band.
> 
> Tim broke the law, got caught and was punished. He at least served jail time as a punishment and it seems like - he is a reformed character from it.
> 
> What punishment, accountability or anything else has gone Haarp Machines way?



Poor analogy and comparison man. Tim hired someone to kill his wife and mother of their adopted children... Al is just a douche bag that can't keep a band together or release music on a regular schedule. One is actually evil, the other is just annoying and/or laughable.


----------



## lewis

aesthyrian said:


> Poor analogy and comparison man. Tim hired someone to kill his wife and mother of their adopted children... Al is just a douche bag that can't keep a band together or release music on a regular schedule. One is actually evil, the other is just annoying and/or laughable.



Yeah for sure. Am just angry at the whole thing


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> Am just angry at the whole thing



Really? I never would have guessed.


----------



## lewis

MaxOfMetal said:


> Really? I never would have guessed.


Haha
We are allowed to be though.

Turning the other cheek is the reason this douchebag still remains successful yet he deserves nothing


----------



## Exchanger

Aumann said:


> Exactly, i don't really listen to music for the people behind it. But when i know the people behind it are hypocritical and pretentious asswhipes, it makes me less inclined to listen.
> 
> And it's not like what they put out recently was good enough to hold my attention for long.



One should separate the artist as a person and his art, right ? Well, I share your sentiment, it's not always easy.
And especially nowadays when there are plenty of other talented artists who also are not douchebags. I'd rather save my time and attention for these.


----------



## StevenC

lewis said:


> Haha
> We are allowed to be though.
> 
> Turning the other cheek is the reason this douchebag still remains successful yet he deserves nothing


Yeah you can be angry, but you sound bitter that this popular band is popular and your band isn't. That's a bad look.


----------



## lewis

StevenC said:


> Yeah you can be angry, but you sound bitter that this popular band is popular and your band isn't. That's a bad look.


Not necassirly my band. - any hardworking band that doesnt con peple


----------



## StevenC

lewis said:


> Not necassirly my band. - any hardworking band that doesnt con peple


I mean, con isn't really the word. They released a good album, then by some accounts weren't very good live and by other accounts got pretty good later on.

If you're getting upset over punched in guitars then I've got news for you.


----------



## lewis

StevenC said:


> I mean, con isn't really the word. They released a good album, then by some accounts weren't very good live and by other accounts got pretty good later on.
> 
> If you're getting upset over punched in guitars then I've got news for you.



His crowdfund me album thing was total con. It was billed as funding an album when the reality is most of the £30,000 he wanted was actually to clear some of his personal debts and early release contract fees


----------



## StevenC

lewis said:


> His crowdfund me album thing was total con. It was billed as funding an album when the reality is most of the £30,000 he wanted was actually to clear some of his personal debts and early release contract fees


His Indiegogo that was underfunded at £2731 of 30,000? On the list of SSO cons, I'd say that's probably close to the smallest one. Besides, it's Indigogo. Everyone knows that's the one where you lose your money even if it's not funded, so at 8% I'd say he has very little obligation on that front.


----------



## lurè

He put his crowdfunding thing ridiculously high (£30,000) and tried to get away with all the money he could get in a certain amount of time ; the album was imho just an excuse.


----------



## Kaura

New video up.


----------



## Albake21

It's like watching a trashy reality TV show.


----------



## Eptaceros

Except trashy reality TV has boobs. This guy has nothing to offer. It's kind of pathetic that he thinks people might come across a 20 min video of him talking to you while reading from his laptop and actually be willing to watch. Seriously, if any of you actually watch all 20 min of this, please elaborate here.


----------



## wannabguitarist

Eptaceros said:


> Except trashy reality TV has boobs. This guy has nothing to offer. It's kind of pathetic that he thinks people might come across a 20 min video of him talking to you while reading from his laptop and actually be willing to watch. Seriously, if any of you actually watch all 20 min of this, please elaborate here.



Someone needs to summarize it for the rest of us


----------



## ikarus

wannabguitarist said:


> Someone needs to summarize it for the rest of us



Haha just wanted to write the same thing. Sooo, someone went through it?


----------



## aesthyrian

Kaura said:


> New video up.




Did you guys know that the reason people don't like Al is because they are males under pressure that haven't had sex?

This guy..


----------



## Aumann

Eptaceros said:


> Except trashy reality TV has boobs. This guy has nothing to offer. It's kind of pathetic that he thinks people might come across a 20 min video of him talking to you while reading from his laptop and actually be willing to watch. Seriously, if any of you actually watch all 20 min of this, please elaborate here.


To psychoanalyse him, i just find it fascinating how he just keeps denying reality.


----------



## Ibatz

He is literally killing the band at Euroblast at the moment....
He "replaced" himself with a new guitarist and started to sing like a madman...

Wow.


----------



## Pietjepieter

Epic fail, worst thing i have See live ever!!


----------



## Aumann

Ibatz said:


> He is literally killing the band at Euroblast at the moment....
> He "replaced" himself with a new guitarist and started to sing like a madman...
> 
> Wow.


??? Tell me more


----------



## Ibatz

It's a joke.
The set started with multiple backingtrack problems and he intruced himself as the new singer....

The guitarists and the drummer are killing it, but because of Als "vocals" the majority left the hall...


----------



## Kaura

Don't know if this is legit but there seems to be a live stream starting off in 10 minutes. Which is odd if they already started the set.

Edit: Nevermind, the actual stream is on some shady ass streaming website and you have to register to watch it and the registration looks shady as shit. Fuck that.


----------



## Ibatz

The soundguy just turned down his mic.....


----------



## Pietjepieter

Ibatz said:


> The soundguy just turned down his mic.....



Should have Done that from the start, so i would be able to Enjoy the drummer and the guitarists.... they are killer, but i was not able to listen. He fucked up harder then i even thought was possible!


----------



## Albake21

Where can I watch this....


----------



## SamSam

I need to see this.

But I also hope it's the last chance he ever receives.


----------



## akinari

Somebody post video NOW


----------



## Frostbite

https://www.facebook.com/digitalfufux/posts/2937770246237852?hc_location=ufi

Enjoy


----------



## coreysMonster

Frostbite said:


> https://www.facebook.com/digitalfufux/posts/2937770246237852?hc_location=ufi
> 
> Enjoy


I did not enjoy that.


----------



## TheDandy

Link for people not on Facebook? 

Edit: what the fuck


----------



## anomynous

Even better than I could have possibly imagined.


----------



## Albake21

Damn I wish it was longer... That's some comedy gold right there.


----------



## akinari

I don't know what I'm more excited about, hearing more from this set, or Al's inevitable followup vlog about how he totally crushed it and proved he isn't afraid of "trying new things" and "taking control of his artistic vision" for the band or some such.

#aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


----------



## SamSam

Frostbite said:


> https://www.facebook.com/digitalfufux/posts/2937770246237852?hc_location=ufi
> 
> Enjoy



Thank you. You are not the hero we need. But you are the hero we deserve.

On a more positive note the drumming sounded good.


----------



## lewis

Well im so surprised.
Never did i see this coming.



Euroblast make themsleves look silly by booking this waster to begin with like i argued few pages back.


----------



## Al Mu'min

that was rough 

either way i'm glad it's done and i've got something to work on. learning how to sing and scream in 6 months was no easy task but it did feel good on Friday's rehearsal but man... with the hours i put into my day job to cover all the expenses these last few weeks + lack of sleep my body caught up with me and i developed a scratchy infection in my throat (pharyngitis) + the tech issues + no soundcheck... c'est la vie. 

i'll keep going + it'll get better. 

P.S. if you've got more clips please DM for review.

Safe!


----------



## Exchanger

"_The community is male dominated and therefore very high in Yang energy_"

Did you mean : "_Wang energy_" ?

Please keep on doing what you know how to do. So not psychology nor falsetto singing.


----------



## narad

wannabguitarist said:


> Someone needs to summarize it for the rest of us



Honestly a lot of reasonable stuff in that video, and stuff a lot of the people in the community need to hear. Or hear AND THEN think about. I don't agree with a lot of the psychoanalysis bits, but there's no denying the vitriol the community has for the bands in it. I'm not going to blame it on lack of sex or not going to the gym enough, people can just be shitty and people on the internet can be shittier. 

I got some internet jabs in back when the "punching in the guitar track" stuff came out, but like damn, that was like 5 years ago. No need to ...urm... haarp on it.


----------



## Aumann

narad said:


> Honestly a lot of reasonable stuff in that video, and stuff a lot of the people in the community need to hear. Or hear AND THEN think about. I don't agree with a lot of the psychoanalysis bits, but there's no denying the vitriol the community has for the bands in it. I'm not going to blame it on lack of sex or not going to the gym enough, people can just be shitty and people on the internet can be shittier.
> 
> I got some internet jabs in back when the "punching in the guitar track" stuff came out, but like damn, that was like 5 years ago. No need to ...urm... haarp on it.



It's not just the punching in of guitars, it's his entire attitude afterwards.

I get his point though, too many people taking it too seriously and being very harsh, but after not being able to keep together several bands and reports of him being an ass, people are pretty disappointed that whatever they invested in his gofundme's (or whatever) isn't really being rewarded with anything but vids of how the bands fell apart again, and he tries something else, again. 

For me it's just comedy gold at this point


----------



## SamSam

So the guy has gone from not being able to play the parts to not being able to sing the parts. 

There is an opportunity to learn and reflect here


----------



## KnightBrolaire

honestly at this point I feel like al moomoo is just elaborately trolling everyone. That or he's DeVries levels of crazy. Actually, yeah now that I think about it, probably the latter.


----------



## Exchanger

narad said:


> Honestly a lot of reasonable stuff in that video, and stuff a lot of the people in the community need to hear. Or hear AND THEN think about. I don't agree with a lot of the psychoanalysis bits, but there's no denying the vitriol the community has for the bands in it. I'm not going to blame it on lack of sex or not going to the gym enough, people can just be shitty and people on the internet can be shittier.
> 
> I got some internet jabs in back when the "punching in the guitar track" stuff came out, but like damn, that was like 5 years ago. No need to ...urm... haarp on it.




The more technical and nerdy a genre gets, the more it is enjoyable to play, the less it is enjoyable to listen for someone who's not a musician. So in Tech/prog there's more people who want to be on stage than in front of it.
So yeah obviously, there's competition, and pressure and yeah there's some negativity coming out of this.
But that should also be an incentive to have better work ethics. If someone fails at this, there's plenty of other bands out there to pick from, so yes, the attitude of the people also comes into play. And then it becomes a bit painful to see people with dubious ethics get in the spotlight while so many other good players that are actually nice persons don't get half of that.

Disclaimer : I'm not in a band atm and I have regular sexual activity.


----------



## cwhitey2

Al Mu'min said:


> that was rough
> 
> either way i'm glad it's done and i've got something to work on. learning how to sing and scream in 6 months was no easy task but it did feel good on Friday's rehearsal but man... with the hours i put into my day job to cover all the expenses these last few weeks + lack of sleep my body caught up with me and i developed a scratchy infection in my throat (pharyngitis) + the tech issues + no soundcheck... c'est la vie.
> 
> i'll keep going + it'll get better.
> 
> P.S. if you've got more clips please DM for review.
> 
> Safe!


From the sounds of it you didn't learn anything


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Al Mu'min said:


> snip



So are you stepping away from playing guitar live altogether? what’s your reason for changing? I can understand Jari from Wintersun not playing anymore because he is the bands vocalist and aside from the solos Wintersun isn’t exactly a guitar riff driven band.


----------



## GunpointMetal

It's always weird to me that I can see some weekend warriors/small tour bands play with all sorts of technology and never have a hiccup, then a "band" that somehow gets booked on a big fest can't get their shit to work, replace the vocalist with the guitarist (who is obviously not a vocalist...obviously) who also just happens to be sick...
At some point you just have to look at the logistics and go "man, this is a shitshow every time, maybe something different is required here"


----------



## lurè

You don't get it, he's trying to make the sound of sex so people who haven't had yet could still get a grasp of what it's like.


----------



## Fred the Shred

This whole sequence of events is so surreal it feels as if this whole ordeal is but an ellaborate tech metal take on 4chan.

Having said this, and while it's obvious why the tech community did bring out the pitchforks for Al, truth is that some points, kneejerk psychoanalysis aside, are true when it comes to the general toxicity of people, yet that is nothing new at all, and unfortunately far from circumscribed to metal or any of its subgenres.


----------



## Aumann

Fred the Shred said:


> This whole sequence of events is so surreal it feels as if this whole ordeal is but an ellaborate tech metal take on 4chan.
> 
> Having said this, and while it's obvious why the tech community did bring out the pitchforks for Al, truth is that some points, kneejerk psychoanalysis aside, are true when it comes to the general toxicity of people, yet that is nothing new at all, and unfortunately far from circumscribed to metal or any of its subgenres.



Hmmhmm Fred i don't know. You been lacking sex as well lately? I feel a lot of yang energy in your post.


----------



## Fred the Shred

Aumann said:


> Hmmhmm Fred i don't know. You been lacking sex as well lately? I feel a lot of yang energy in your post.



Well, I can show you some of my yang energy.

WINK WINK NUDGE NUDGE


----------



## lurè

Hopefully is not speeding up those vocals on the next album


----------



## Randy

Michael Keene in a rubber mask, confirmed.


----------



## cip 123

lewis said:


> Well im so surprised.
> Never did i see this coming.
> 
> 
> 
> Euroblast make themsleves look silly by booking this waster to begin with like i argued few pages back.




I mean Euroblast just put the final nail in this coffin imo.


----------



## StevenC

My money is it's a new Jouquin Phoenix movie.


----------



## sakeido

Frostbite said:


> https://www.facebook.com/digitalfufux/posts/2937770246237852?hc_location=ufi
> 
> Enjoy



oh no

how does this guy still manage to surprise me after all these years? switching to vox came straight out of left field with zero foreshadowing. Game of Thrones season 8 style. #subvertexpectations


----------



## mikernaut




----------



## aesthyrian

Kevin and Yo playing together? That's a dangerous amount of shred.


----------



## Ralyks

.... What the hell did I just watch?
I mean, good for Yo, but... What?


----------



## Seabeast2000

Is this guy the Tommy Wiseau of metal?


----------



## Necropitated

aesthyrian said:


> Kevin and Yo playing together? That's a dangerous amount of shred.



I don't shred anymore haha, but Yo does a lot of it. It was shred all day with him


----------



## Exchanger

lurè said:


> Hopefully is not speeding up those vocals on the next album



That's it he was singing the non-sped up parts, hence the pitch difference !



The906 said:


> Is this guy the Tommy Wiseau of metal?



Oh hi Mark ! Anyway, how's your sex life yang energy ?


----------



## ikarus

@Necropitated, why do you even participate in such a ridiculous farce? Whats your point of view in this whole situation?


----------



## cip 123

ikarus said:


> @Necropitated, why do you even participate in such a ridiculous farce? Whats your point of view in this whole situation?


He probably got paid.


----------



## Edika

cip 123 said:


> He probably got paid.



Hopefully he got paid.


----------



## cip 123

Edika said:


> Hopefully he got paid.


I think Al's antics are far too well known now for him to get anything without paying up front.


----------



## aesthyrian

ikarus said:


> @Necropitated, why do you even participate in such a ridiculous farce? Whats your point of view in this whole situation?



I can't speak for him.. but it's a paid gig at a festival with plenty of exposure. It's a way to elevate his status in the industry, and thus get better gigs in the future. This will be a very small cliff note in his career if he keeps it up.


----------



## ThePIGI King

Necropitated said:


> I don't shred anymore haha


Yet he plays Muenzner solos sped up. What a guy!


----------



## Necropitated

aesthyrian said:


> I can't speak for him.. but it's a paid gig at a festival with plenty of exposure. It's a way to elevate his status in the industry, and thus get better gigs in the future. This will be a very small cliff note in his career if he keeps it up.



This guy gets it



ThePIGI King said:


> Yet he plays Muenzner solos sped up. What a guy!



Haha yeah, but I'm not into all this music as a competition anymore. I did most of it to prove myself and in the end, I did exactly that and I don't care anymore what anybody thinks about me or my playing. I do my own thing these days and that's why you barely see new covers on my YT-Channel.
People should leave their egos at home from time to time...


----------



## Al Mu'min

Necropitated said:


> I don't shred anymore haha, but Yo does a lot of it. It was shred all day with him


Since you met Yo? or since 'girlfriend + baby'? 

people have different coping mechanisms for pressure. some rinse directly... some through ricochet jabs... some take a deep breath and get on with it. 

it's fun to go back and forth on these threads but vlogging is where i've opened the window so chill until that comes out or better yet... wait till the new song comes out


----------



## GunpointMetal

Are you singing on it? Cause no thanks.


----------



## Necropitated

Al Mu'min said:


> Since you met Yo? or since 'girlfriend + baby'?
> 
> people have different coping mechanisms for pressure. some rinse directly... some through ricochet jabs... some take a deep breath and get on with it.
> 
> it's fun to go back and forth on these threads but vlogging is where i've opened the window so chill until that comes out or better yet... wait till the new song comes out



Since girlfriend + baby, they took the shred out of me haha


----------



## Albake21

I honestly can't tell if that new account is actually Al or a troll account.


----------



## SamSam

Necropitated said:


> People should leave their egos at home from time to time...



This is great advice that we all hope Al will follow!


----------



## Necropitated

SamSam said:


> This is great advice that we all hope Al will follow!



Actually, that comment was not related to him at all. It's just that I noticed a lot of people, especially guitar players are show-offs who would probably write better music if their ego would just take a step back. In the end it's all about the music, so the goal should be that and nothing else!


----------



## SamSam

Necropitated said:


> Actually, that comment was not related to him at all. It's just that I noticed a lot of people, especially guitar players are show-offs who would probably write better music if their ego would just take a step back. In the end it's all about the music, so the goal should be that and nothing else!



Again, I believe that this is great advice that Al should follow! 

I am aware that the comment (now comments) was not directed at him in any way. But it applies to him perfectly (as does your reply.)


----------



## StevenC

SamSam said:


> Again, I believe that this is great advice that Al should follow!
> 
> I am aware that the comment (now comments) was not directed at him in any way. But it applies to him perfectly (as does your reply.)


Al has released some pretty great music, to be fair, that's why this thread is 35 pages long.


----------



## sakeido

^^ 100%. 

fake playthrough vid or not this shit is still fire



I really thought buddy was gonna get the band off the ground again after vanishing for 5 years to practice guitar. some guys are their own worst enemy. ah well


----------



## ArtDecade

sakeido said:


> I really thought buddy was gonna get the band off the ground again after vanishing for 5 years to practice guitar. some guys are their own worst enemy. ah well



Maybe he uses a 9600 baud modem to connect with the Internet.


----------



## Avedas

Albake21 said:


> I honestly can't tell if that new account is actually Al or a troll account.


Literally thought it was a troll account


----------



## StevenC

Yeah, obviously there are some people in this thread just to laugh at some dude who writes kick ass music struggle, but the thread is 35 pages because a bunch of us want to hear more of this and see the band be a success.



Like this is awesome. More of that please.


----------



## Ralyks

I know I think the music kicks ass. The breakdown in Esoteric Agenda makes me want to fuck shit up, Extension to One is music excellent, and I dug the hell out of the Shedding tune. Its just the behind the scenes aspect is just baffling. Oh, and the lyrics are cringy...


----------



## cip 123

StevenC said:


> Yeah, obviously there are some people in this thread just to laugh at some dude who writes kick ass music struggle



Sorry but, Al has had more than enough people telling him exactly how to be a better human being/musician. He's not "struggling". He "struggles" to keep a band around him and I'm sure that's not cause he just keeps falling on hard times, it's probably because of issues which have been pointed out time and time again.

Like this Euroblast, if he's been practicing this much, why not just play guitar and backing track the vocals? Would he have gotten hate? Absolutely "lol another singer left?", but it'd look a lot better than what's just gone down imo. It'd look like he showed up and played what he knew to play (considering he's made a point of making it look like he can now play the songs) and tried to get the band on track even with struggles of musicians. 

Instead he gets up and sings, kudos to him honestly, first gig with that many people. But seriously why not go the other route, there will be hate either way so why not go the way he knows will give a slightly more positive outlook for the band. Unless he is still lying about playing the guitar parts.

To then come off with the excuses "Aw man, I was so busy with my day job, I had bills, and I was sick, and the tech issues"...You mean like the other bands that work day jobs to cover bills, the bands that are busy coming from the other side of the globe, the singers who are sick but know how to manage it, the singers who even with tech issues know where they should be because they've been doing it for so long.

I love the HAARP sound. Definitely a big influence, but the idea to do vocals for this was just crazy. Backing track the vox and turn up playing your parts, you'd have 1 less session musician bill to pay and it'd be a legitimate performance that people could actually get behind. I'm sure there will be a reason as to why this wasn't done.


----------



## StevenC

cip 123 said:


> Sorry but, Al has had more than enough people telling him exactly how to be a better human being/musician. He's not "struggling". He "struggles" to keep a band around him and I'm sure that's not cause he just keeps falling on hard times, it's probably because of issues which have been pointed out time and time again.
> 
> Like this Euroblast, if he's been practicing this much, why not just play guitar and backing track the vocals? Would he have gotten hate? Absolutely "lol another singer left?", but it'd look a lot better than what's just gone down imo. It'd look like he showed up and played what he knew to play (considering he's made a point of making it look like he can now play the songs) and tried to get the band on track even with struggles of musicians.
> 
> Instead he gets up and sings, kudos to him honestly, first gig with that many people. But seriously why not go the other route, there will be hate either way so why not go the way he knows will give a slightly more positive outlook for the band. Unless he is still lying about playing the guitar parts.
> 
> To then come off with the excuses "Aw man, I was so busy with my day job, I had bills, and I was sick, and the tech issues"...You mean like the other bands that work day jobs to cover bills, the bands that are busy coming from the other side of the globe, the singers who are sick but know how to manage it, the singers who even with tech issues know where they should be because they've been doing it for so long.
> 
> I love the HAARP sound. Definitely a big influence, but the idea to do vocals for this was just crazy. Backing track the vox and turn up playing your parts, you'd have 1 less session musician bill to pay and it'd be a legitimate performance that people could actually get behind. I'm sure there will be a reason as to why this wasn't done.


I mean, there's more to struggle than finances. Dude can't keep the band functioning, and for whatever reason it's not because he can't write great songs.


----------



## SamSam

StevenC said:


> Al has released some pretty great music, to be fair, that's why this thread is 35 pages long.




Yes he has, the album was great and I enjoy listening to it.

However, no one in their right mind, with even the slightest amount of self awareness would could consider the euroblast performance to be in any way acceptable.

Album production aside, live performance is a huge part of music to me, and I would imagine to most other users here as well.

Whether he wants to play guitar, sing, or learn fucking jazz flute. He clearly need to reconsider his approach towards performance and delivering what the audience expect to see and hear.

And say what you like about his "struggles", the reason he cannot keep a band together is obvious. Any rational person who has watched done of his recently videos can see why he can't keep a band together.


----------



## narad

StevenC said:


> Yeah, obviously there are some people in this thread just to laugh at some dude who writes kick ass music struggle, but the thread is 35 pages because a bunch of us want to hear more of this and see the band be a success.
> 
> 
> 
> Like this is awesome. More of that please.




Don't listen to Steven. He's just mad that you're all indirectly insulting a Varberg.


----------



## lewis

the music being great or not is kinda irrelevant to me in this case.
If he had never been a knob to people, he could have gotten away with the standard of songs being less than half this technical/quality - and still had a decent gigging career with plenty of fanbases in areas. Abba had global hits with songs using 3 notes.

Al the person is way bigger than Haarp Machine the band, to people now. And i think he feels it to so its increased the already problematic ego. 
Think the euroblast is many peoples final straw too. Most the venue emptied after he started.
Where he went wrong is not go the Jason Richardson route after the first albums lineup collapsed. Or Plini etc. 
Track record proves you cant work with people and also this would have solved the vocalist issues too. Just write sweet instrumental stuff and jam it yourself on stage.
Like im almost positive if you could rewind like 7 years or something and he went this route instead he would be well thought of now, well respected by musicians (at least the majority that dont know him personally) and getting very solid support slots for larger bands on bigger tours.

Really needed to learn some lessons from his past and it never feels like he does


----------



## StevenC

lewis said:


> Abba had global hits with songs using 3 notes.


Citation needed


----------



## Winspear

The live/band situation clearly isn't working. Granted I haven't followed closely but I can't recall hearing anything positive since the original shows (saw them with AAL back in 2011). I think HAARP could have a great future just releasing studio recordings - even if they amount to no more than one man programmed drums and sped up guitars (not a dig, that's just the genre) I'm sure people would be happy. That's pretty much what HAARP is in my head anyway haha


----------



## anomynous

I'm still waiting for the reveal that Al has been Joaquin Phoenix this whole time


----------



## StevenC

narad said:


> Don't listen to Steven. He's just mad that you're all indirectly insulting a Varberg.


For real, I like that guitar more than this band.


----------



## Fred the Shred

To be honest, the Varberg is a fantastic design and a beautiful guitar - comfy as well!

The issue with the whole HAARP Machine thing was never whether the songs were good or not, but rather the selling of edit-metal as actual playing to kick things off, an attitude that conveyed supreme arrogance to boot, and things ending up with an ever revolving door of band members followed by a meme like chain of events involving crowd funding, attributing the negative perception a lot of people have to some sort of massified freudian complex, and a sudden change of roles to jumping on stage and attempting to sing which, while brave, is quite silly. To be honest, given the social interaction issues Al seems to have down to not being able to secure a stable band lineup, I'd agree with Lorcan here - stick to studio stuff, hire session musos when needed, there done, job's a good one and the fans are happy.


----------



## SamSam

What Fred said. You cannot ignore his distasteful actions when he clearly does not give a fuck about it himself. He's happy to casually brush off any misstep he makes with impunity. 

And let's not pretend he revolutionised the genre or anything. It was a solid album but was hardly a Necrophagist level game changer or something of similar ilk.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Fred the Shred said:


> stick to studio stuff, hire session musos when needed, there done, job's a good one and the fans are happy.


It's a lot harder to scam promoters out of a guarantee and sell a bunch of merch ahead of your dive-bomb of a live set from behind a computer, though. Not like too many festivals are gonna be looking to book this after this anyways....well, I guess the Faceless still gets shows, so who knows.


----------



## Fred the Shred

GunpointMetal said:


> ....well, I guess the Faceless still gets shows, so who knows.



No joke - I was about halfway through reading your post and thought "yeah, but The Faceless...".


----------



## Randy

StevenC said:


> For real, I like that guitar more than this band.



Varberg > Standard Strandy


----------



## cip 123

GunpointMetal said:


> It's a lot harder to scam promoters out of a guarantee and sell a bunch of merch ahead of your dive-bomb of a live set from behind a computer, though. Not like too many festivals are gonna be looking to book this after this anyways....well, I guess the Faceless still gets shows, so who knows.


Faceless have decent management who can keep Keene in check. It's been going well for them as of late. Michael plays what he knows and gets session players to fill in the other parts...Exactly what should have been done here.


----------



## GunpointMetal

cip 123 said:


> Faceless have decent management who can keep Keene in check. It's been going well for them as of late. Michael plays what he knows and gets session players to fill in the other parts...Exactly what should have been done here.


....now... management didn't seem to have much control up until recently, and rumor was that there A LOT of money owed to management, hence the not being able to cancel tour/shows that maybe shouldn't have been played.

But that's way OT and was more of a point of reference than a talking point. The Haack Machine seems to just be some egomaniacs fever dream that people keep buying into for some reason or another.


----------



## RoRo56

I think Al mentioned a while ago that they're being managed by EJ now, same guy as the Faceless.


----------



## MiPwnYew

RoRo56 said:


> I think Al mentioned a while ago that they're being managed by EJ now, same guy as the Faceless.



Poor guy.


----------



## anomynous

Don't worry, EJ doesn't manage the faceless anymore


----------



## cip 123

RoRo56 said:


> I think Al mentioned a while ago that they're being managed by EJ now, same guy as the Faceless.


I thought Al's whole thing was going solo with Haarp, didn't they leave/get dropped by their record?

( yes, I realise record company and management are not the same thing)


----------



## Ataraxia2320

KnightBrolaire said:


> honestly at this point I feel like al moomoo is just elaborately trolling everyone. That or he's DeVries levels of crazy. Actually, yeah now that I think about it, probably the latter.



Sorry I'm out of the loop. 

Who is DeVries?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Ataraxia2320 said:


> Sorry I'm out of the loop.
> 
> Who is DeVries?


ohohoh, you are in for a treat. Look up DeVries/Vampiire guitars. Dude is a nutcase
https://www.sevenstring.org/threads...-if-yours-is-better-you-keep-it.235656/page-2


----------



## RoRo56

cip 123 said:


> I thought Al's whole thing was going solo with Haarp, didn't they leave/get dropped by their record?
> 
> ( yes, I realise record company and management are not the same thing)



Yeah you're right he parted ways with Sumerian and wanted to do it all his way with the help of the gofundme. When that didn't go as planned he started to send it off to different labels/publishers and was working with EJ to try and resurrect the band's image.


----------



## HANIAK

This is sad and hilarious at the same time.
So much potential wasted...


----------



## lewis

RoRo56 said:


> Yeah you're right he parted ways with Sumerian and wanted to do it all his way with the help of the gofundme. When that didn't go as planned he started to send it off to different labels/publishers and was working with EJ to try and resurrect the band's image.



I heard the gofundme was to pay off early release of the sumerian contract?
and was billed as "album expenses"


----------



## StevenC

lewis said:


> I heard the gofundme was to pay off early release of the sumerian contract?
> and was billed as "album expenses"


He literally said in the video for the campaign that was one of the things the money was for. There was no trickery there.


----------



## RoRo56

Why does it feel like he's being held at gunpoint behind the camera? It's like he's reading off a script like his life depends on it.


----------



## Aumann

I couldn't get past the screaming oart. And it took me 3 tries to even get that far. 

I can't i just can't


----------



## cip 123

Dude will do anything to get out of playing guitar live

EDIT: also, 3 track demo, and put out a new song...so much for the "album"


----------



## Captain Butterscotch

Starting to think this is an _I'm Still Here_ thing.


----------



## gunch

I mean give him enough time and he might get good at singing too

But this dude has formed his whole career around teasing what's cool about him (songwriting ablity) before being able to deliver


----------



## GunpointMetal

Either its Andy Kaufman levels of comedic genius or this guy is really just a dipshit. It's really hard to tell at this point. I guess if this is somehow profitable, it can't be as dumb as it seems.


----------



## SamSam

Is it profitable though? Highly debatable. The odd free guitar and a hand full of low paying gigs (I highly doubt Euroblast paid him much) doesn't exactly keep a roof over yoyr head and pump up that nest egg.


----------



## StevenC

SamSam said:


> Is it profitable though? Highly debatable. The odd free guitar and a hand full of low paying gigs (I highly doubt Euroblast paid him much) doesn't exactly keep a roof over yoyr head and pump up that nest egg.


I doubt he upgraded from 2 Varbergs to an LTD purely for taste.


----------



## Nlelith

Maybe guys at HAARP device (not the band) are unhappy that it's used as a band name, and it's also a weapon, that is capable of targeting individuals, making them fuck up constantly. So they tuned it in on Al back when THM was on their first tour, hoping it would destroy the band, but it didn't go as planned?


----------



## SamSam

Replacement of an expired contract? I doubt strandberg have provided him with much of an income in years. Plus he's not exactly going to be on the best of endorsement contracts considering the niche genre he Is a part of? 

Having a few LTDs chucked at you is nice I suppose, perhaps next year's he'll be endorsed by Kiesel (those five sold guitars might cover a few months rent?

Who am i kidding, he lives in his mum's basement.


----------



## cip 123

SamSam said:


> Is it profitable though? Highly debatable. The odd free guitar and a hand full of low paying gigs (I highly doubt Euroblast paid him much) doesn't exactly keep a roof over yoyr head and pump up that nest egg.



He probably has an okay day job, he's not just living off this. There are plenty of things you can do to earn decent money nowadays. Which means he'll have money to sink in to this, money to pay his manager who will do their job of securing gigs etc. 

Haarp is just a hobby band at this point.


----------



## j3ps3

gunch said:


> I mean give him enough time and he might get good at editing singing too


 Fixed.


----------



## Exchanger

Part of me is sad seeing this, after all isn't he a struggling artist like many of us here ? No matter your level now, you had to start by sucking.

On the other hand, WTF ! If you think you can learn to sing, then sure go ahead, but then show the final result, no one wants to see your lame updates about baby steps.


----------



## SamSam

It's 2019, if you want to be a struggling artist it really your prerogative.

I am pretty sure the majority of us are hobby players/weekend huggers.

The band could realistically be doing pretty well if it weren't for his attitude. The first album is such a solid release, he had the perfect platform.


----------



## SamSam

SamSam said:


> I am pretty sure the majority of us are hobby players/weekend huggers.



Meant to type giggers


----------



## Exchanger

Yeah that's kind of what I mean, some of us are amateurs and thus don't always get everything super tight or first time right, and do what we can at our level with the time we have (that's what I emant with struggling). So to some degree, his issues are understandable.
But yeah when you promise people albums and get to headline serious festivals, the standards are and should be higher. And you don't come up with half-assed excuses afterwards.


----------



## GunpointMetal

He sounds like someone who is singing along with their earbuds and doesn't know how loud they are and those screams are gonna kill his throat in short order. Alll neck.


----------



## coreysMonster

After watching that horrible video of Al singing I need to watch this to clean out my ears. Same mic, decades of practice difference.



With practice Al might be able to pull it off but right now he's doing EVERYTHING wrong. He's not breathing right, he's not screaming right, he's not enunciating right, he's not doing vibrato right. He sounds like he's mumble singing to himself.


----------



## aesthyrian

Captain Butterscotch said:


> Starting to think this is an _I'm Still Here_ thing.



Yeah but that only has effect when you actually build a successful career and following first.


----------



## Demiurge

Exchanger said:


> Yeah that's kind of what I mean, some of us are amateurs and thus don't always get everything super tight or first time right, and do what we can at our level with the time we have (that's what I emant with struggling). So to some degree, his issues are understandable.
> But yeah when you promise people albums and get to headline serious festivals, the standards are and should be higher. And you don't come up with half-assed excuses afterwards.



I'd be a little bit more "there but for the grace of God go I" if there wasn't so much hubris & shenanigans with this guy.


----------



## aesthyrian

oh god I just got to the part where he "sings" Jet packs was yes. 

It's so weird, I recognize another song he "sings" but only by the lyrics. He has completely botched the melody so badly that my mind can't recall what song those lyrics belong to.

Everyone has their own unique "talents" I suppose.


----------



## Al Mu'min

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Frostbite

Al Mu'min said:


> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Bro you can't even post the video properly. You probably should give up


----------



## iamaom

Why is his washing machine in the kitchen?


----------



## StevenC

iamaom said:


> Why is his washing machine in the kitchen?


You ever heard of London?


----------



## I play music

StevenC said:


> You ever heard of London?


Or any other place where you can only afford renting a tiny apartment with no other place to put it


----------



## iamaom

StevenC said:


> You ever heard of London?


1. I have never been to Euroland.
2. All the apartments I've had in the US either have a special laundry section in it, or no hook-ups at all and a laundry-mat building close by.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Shit, around here in-unit laundry costs more than an extra bedroom.


----------



## Albake21

GunpointMetal said:


> Shit, around here in-unit laundry costs more than an extra bedroom.


Same in Chicago, it's for sure a luxury to have an in unit washer/dryer.


----------



## Avedas

I play music said:


> Or any other place where you can only afford renting a tiny apartment with no other place to put it


In many major cities it's not even a question of money. There just isn't more space to buy lol


----------



## Nlelith

Meanwhile, in post-Soviet space: we are going to have these household appliances in apartment, even if that means tight spaces and storing things in weird places.

On the bright side, washing machines are cheap, $180-300 will easily get you a pretty good one, and water/detergent/etc. aren't a problem either. In fact, I've always found it strange that you get so much in terms of neatly engineered/manufactured material (from plastic and electronics to stainless steel) in a washing machine, makes guitar hardware seem grossly overpriced. $70 for a set of tuners? $200 for a Floyd Rose? Seems to be too much in comparison. Sorry for a derail rant.


----------



## Ordacleaphobia

But what was Al cooking, tho?


----------



## cwhitey2

Ordacleaphobia said:


> But what was Al cooking, tho?


Tasty riffs with bad vocals over them.


----------



## GunpointMetal

cwhitey2 said:


> Tasty GP MIDI with bad vocals over them.


Fixed it.


----------



## I play music

Albake21 said:


> Same in Chicago, it's for sure a luxury to have an in unit washer/dryer.


As the other guy said already, washing machines are cheap. At least compared to the guitar gear discussed here in this forum. So not at all luxury.


GunpointMetal said:


> Shit, around here in-unit laundry costs more than an extra bedroom.


Must be a cheap place to live where a a bedroom is less than a washing machine.


----------



## GunpointMetal

I play music said:


> As the other guy said already, washing machines are cheap. At least compared to the guitar gear discussed here in this forum. So not at all luxury.
> 
> Must be a cheap place to live where a a bedroom is less than a washing machine.


I guess I could buy one of those shitty ones that you hook up to a regular sink fixture, if I want to wash three things at a time. There'd be no room to put a full size washer and dryer (gotta have the dryer for the 3-4 months out of the year where its too cold out to hang-dry). It's definitely cheaper here than major metropolitan areas, but definitely not inexpensive, at least if you don't wanna spend 60% of your income on rent.


----------



## lewis

GunpointMetal said:


> Fixed it.



Pahahahaha ffs


----------



## GraemeH

Triggering a washing machine economics discussion on a seven string guitar forum by posting a video of him cooking rice. Al is quantum-trolling, confirmed.


----------



## cip 123

Washing machine was at half speed.


----------



## Avedas

cip 123 said:


> Washing machine was at half speed.


That's fine. Nobody complained about Rush using fake washing machines either.


----------



## cip 123

This band is now officially know as

The WAASHING Machine.


----------



## Aumann

cip 123 said:


> This band is now officially know as
> 
> The WAASHING Machine.



Plot twist, it was the washing machine playing guitar all along. 

Seriously though, i tried to rewatch his singing video. At least, like at least he could have consulted a singing coach. He holds his chin up too high, his pressure is completely wrong and when he attempts to sing halleluja i can just feel my own vocal chords strain when i see and hear him. There's no technique whatsoever and practicing singing like that is completely useless unless you want to drill yourself into bad habits. 

Al'washingmachumin lost the plot.


----------



## gunch

Idk I was listening to Disclosure in my car and have random thoughts having not listened to it since like 2014-2015:

- Extension to One and Machine Over still slap
- Semensky's singing is good but his harsh vocals were awful, a deeper more powerful growler would have ruled 
- All the different world music elements feel tacked on and one basic sound (Middle East _or_ Oriental) and some synth's would have been enough 

And as a divisive figure the man himself is I think there's a sincerity and conviction to his riffs that I wish he would share more with the world and maybe over time people would forget all the ??? stuff he's been known for


----------



## Frostbite

gunch said:


> And as a divisive figure the man himself is I think there's a sincerity and conviction to his riffs that I wish he would share more with the world and maybe over time people would forget all the ??? stuff he's been known for


We can't forget if he keeps reminding us


----------



## RoRo56

gunch said:


> - Semensky's singing is good but his harsh vocals were awful, a deeper more powerful growler would have ruled



Yeah he wasn't much of a harsh vocalist. Wasn't particularly good live either, but didn't catch any flack because everyone was too busy freaking out over Al.


----------



## gunch

Frostbite said:


> We can't forget if he keeps reminding us



True, true.


----------



## jco5055

Albake21 said:


> Same in Chicago, it's for sure a luxury to have an in unit washer/dryer.



I live in Lakeview but I was looking at Wicker even though I knew it's $$$ but any place I could have afforded rent didn't even have in-building/on-site laundry so I X'd that really fast.


----------



## Albake21

jco5055 said:


> I live in Lakeview but I was looking at Wicker even though I knew it's $$$ but any place I could have afforded rent didn't even have in-building/on-site laundry so I X'd that really fast.


Same exact boat for me. I ended up in Lincoln Park because the west side was actually more expensive... how screwed up is that considering the west used to be the slums.


----------



## jco5055

Albake21 said:


> Same exact boat for me. I ended up in Lincoln Park because the west side was actually more expensive... how screwed up is that considering the west used to be the slums.



Yeah you gotta admit "downtown" Wicker is hard to beat though, but it does have a weird feeling since it has the "look" of a bad area.. now if only it wasn't such a pain to get over there via public transportation...they should make a blue/red connecting stop somewhere closer than downtown.


----------



## Albake21

jco5055 said:


> Yeah you gotta admit "downtown" Wicker is hard to beat though, but it does have a weird feeling since it has the "look" of a bad area.. now if only it wasn't such a pain to get over there via public transportation...they should make a blue/red connecting stop somewhere closer than downtown.


Oh don't get me wrong, the main strip of Wicker Park is by far my favorite place in Chicago. If it wasn't for the ridiculous rent prices, I'd move there in a heartbeat, especially since I work in the West side. But you're right, the transportation to the west side is just awful. You have to go to the loop, then back out. Chicago was not planned correctly, at all!


----------



## jco5055

Albake21 said:


> Oh don't get me wrong, the main strip of Wicker Park is by far my favorite place in Chicago. If it wasn't for the ridiculous rent prices, I'd move there in a heartbeat, especially since I work in the West side. But you're right, the transportation to the west side is just awful. You have to go to the loop, then back out. Chicago was not planned correctly, at all!



I do the either Belmont to North red line and bus or Halsted bus and bus lol


----------



## NosralTserrof

Just felt like chiming in on the Chicago discussion. Anyone ever go to Riot Fest? Loved taking the blue line from my buddy's place over to pink line over by Douglass Park.


----------



## Veldar

Okay if he wants to sing live get an autotune pedal and go 50/50 with the blend, helps me sing live


----------



## j3ps3

Veldar said:


> Okay if he wants to sing live get an autotune pedal and go 50/50 with the blend, helps me sing live



Ugh, are you serious? Sounds more like karaoke than a live gig.


----------



## Aumann

Veldar said:


> Okay if he wants to sing live get an autotune pedal and go 50/50 with the blend, helps me sing live



For real? So much for integrity. You shouldn't need help singing live, you need vocal lessons. Using autotune live is a shame.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Aumann said:


> For real? So much for integrity. You shouldn't need help singing live, you need vocal lessons. Using autotune live is a shame.


Yeah, just put it on the back track like every other huge metal band with a vocalist that goes way outside their range with software on the album, lol.


----------



## Aumann

GunpointMetal said:


> Yeah, just put it on the back track like every other huge metal band with a vocalist that goes way outside their range with software on the album, lol.


I don't approve of that either, you either can sing live or you don't. If you can't, just sing a lower note, or don't do it....


----------



## GunpointMetal

Aumann said:


> I don't approve of that either, you either can sing live or you don't. If you can't, just sing a lower note, or don't do it....


I agree with you. I think Al should just backtrack everything and learn to be an animator (why not? he thinks he can do everything else with minimal ability) and make it into a travel theatrical thing.


----------



## jco5055

NosralTserrof said:


> Just felt like chiming in on the Chicago discussion. Anyone ever go to Riot Fest? Loved taking the blue line from my buddy's place over to pink line over by Douglass Park.



I have not, I thought about it this year with my brother but I'm not a huge fan of multi-stage big fests.


----------



## Albake21

jco5055 said:


> I have not, I thought about it this year with my brother but I'm not a huge fan of multi-stage big fests.


Same here. Never really been a festival kind of guy. Riotfest usually only has a couple bands that I like so it's never been worth it to me.


----------



## Aumann

Eptaceros said:


> Except trashy reality TV has boobs. This guy has nothing to offer. It's kind of pathetic that he thinks people might come across a 20 min video of him talking to you while reading from his laptop and actually be willing to watch. Seriously, if any of you actually watch all 20 min of this, please elaborate here.


As a psych case study.

Currently writing a piece on narcissism an this is some good material.


----------



## ArtHam

I was at the Euroblast show and while the vocals were horrendous there was way more wrong with the entire performance than that. Not a single of the musicians locked in with each other. Kevin seemed to play ok, but the other guitarist rushed the entire show and the guitars never ever were tight. When soloing the guitarist reminded me of Rusty Cooley a lot in that it was ALL fast, ALL flash but NEVER fitted anything that was happening under it. Compared to this guy Impellitteri is a tasteful player. The drummer tried to keep it together and played ok, but this entire performance was an abomination. THE absolute worst performance of the festival.
In all fairness I'll say that the musicians in and of themselves seemed capable, but as a band this was a failure of epic proportions.

The saving grace for the musicians though is that while they were woefully unprepared, Al Mumin was even worse.


----------



## lewis

ArtHam said:


> I was at the Euroblast show and while the vocals were horrendous there was way more wrong with the entire performance than that. Not a single of the musicians locked in with each other. Kevin seemed to play ok, but the other guitarist rushed the entire show and the guitars never ever were tight. When soloing the guitarist reminded me of Rusty Cooley a lot in that it was ALL fast, ALL flash but NEVER fitted anything that was happening under it. Compared to this guy Impellitteri is a tasteful player. The drummer tried to keep it together and played ok, but this entire performance was an abomination. THE absolute worst performance of the festival.
> In all fairness I'll say that the musicians in and of themselves seemed capable, but as a band this was a failure of epic proportions.
> 
> The saving grace for the musicians though is that while they were woefully unprepared, Al Mumin was even worse.



This!!

My band mate was also there and he summed it up beautifully when i asked him.

"I had to join a queue to leave the room"

Hahahahah


----------



## Al Mu'min

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

new song coming soon


----------



## Mboogie7

The dude looks like a guy I went to college with that had to drop out because he knocked a girl up.


----------



## Aumann

That sure was an ....... interesting podcast.... so what's next, theater? Poetry?


----------



## Exchanger

One minute I'm thinking "meh he's actually a nice guy with an open mind and some reasonable outlook on life"
(Yes, the Last Jedi is the best of the new trilogy, breaking some rules, and IX could have been so much better had it followed that path)
But the next minute I'm like "blergh so much narcissism, paranoia, and esoteric wise-sounding rumbles"...or things like #survival, 'the riffmaster I was born to be'...really ?
The room analogy also doesn't help dispelling the idea that he's the Tommy Wiseau of tech metal.


----------



## Aumann

"he's the Tommy Wiseau of tech metal."

This is gonna stick to me, that's pretty much the best way to sum it up.


----------



## Al Mu'min

Exchanger said:


> One minute I'm thinking "meh he's actually a nice guy with an open mind and some reasonable outlook on life"
> (Yes, the Last Jedi is the best of the new trilogy, breaking some rules, and IX could have been so much better had it followed that path)
> But the next minute I'm like "blergh so much narcissism, paranoia, and esoteric wise-sounding rumbles"...or things like #survival, 'the riffmaster I was born to be'...really ?
> The room analogy also doesn't help dispelling the idea that he's the Tommy Wiseau of tech metal.



Thanks for priming your insult with some praise so it comes across as more civil and less wasteman-like


----------



## Aumann

Al Mu'min said:


> Thanks for priming your insult with some praise so it comes across as more civil and less wasteman-like


With all due respect, but at some point you have to become self-aware my dude


----------



## Exchanger

Al Mu'min said:


> Thanks for priming your insult with some praise so it comes across as more civil and less wasteman-like



Ehh, that's really the impression I get, I can't help it.



Aumann said:


> With all due respect, but at some point you have to become self-aware my dude



That's the thing, there are some moments when I think you level well with reality, but the whole "I'm a creative talented guy and people should know their place and those who attack me only do it because they're jealous" elitist shtick just rubs me off the wrong way.


----------



## Sogradde

Al Mu'min said:


> Thanks for priming your insult with some praise so it comes across as more civil and less wasteman-like


Genuinely curious: What should he have written instead so you take it as proper criticism and not as "wasteman-like insult"?


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I thought there was a new song


----------



## Al Mu'min

Aumann said:


> With all due respect, but at some point you have to become self-aware my dude



What lead you to conclude that I'm not self aware? 



Exchanger said:


> Ehh, that's really the impression I get, I can't help it.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the thing, there are some moments when I think you level well with reality, but the whole "I'm a creative talented guy and people should know their place and those who attack me only do it because they're jealous" elitist shtick just rubs me off the wrong way.



To each his own. As far as opening up and introducing myself in a long form format + catching up on several years I think it achieves what I was going for which was simply an introduction in my own words. If it was just about the music... I wouldn't have. 

it's alright to poke just to see where people are at (if it's just that). 

As far as I can tell... self awareness isn't something achieved overnight and is a continual process of peeling back the layers and updating with new information - pass a point at least. So if that's your point then safe - man will continue!

Do you consider yourself self aware?


----------



## Al Mu'min

Sogradde said:


> Genuinely curious: What should he have written instead so you take it as proper criticism and not as "wasteman-like insult"?



well... there's several jabs here which I'd have to address individually to articulate why they were received as jabs over criticism - which is fine (if it's just that). 

Criticism could be something like 'some good parts in this though it comes across as narcissistic so I'd dial that in'.


----------



## Exchanger

Al Mu'min said:


> Do you consider yourself self aware?




Yes. Probably too much even to the point I don't dare to try things out unless I have a bulletproof plan and it becomes crippling sometimes.
So you could say "well, at least I tried, failed sometimes, but also got some success so I'm ahead of you there", and you wouldn't even be so wrong.
The gripe I have is more about how you handle failure afterwards, blaming on circumstances, the toxicity of the scene (which can be a thing, granted), the lack of active sexuality...if that's not code for "haterz are virgins lol" I don't know what it is.
In our individualistic western societies, we're incited to internalize things too much ("if you're jobless it's your fault and your fault only, if you're rich it's because you worked hard and has nothing to do with social origins or circumstances"), but on the other hand, always putting the responsibility on external causes is also deluded and unfair in general. Now, you do aknowledge a lot, you say you're re-evaluating things, it's an ongoing process, and I started by mentionning that. It's just that you always add these little 'jabs' yourself, and it tends to put the sincerity of the whole thing in doubt.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Al Mu'min said:


> well... there's several jabs here which I'd have to address individually to articulate why they were received as jabs over criticism - which is fine (if it's just that).
> 
> Criticism could be something like 'some good parts in this though it comes across as narcissistic so I'd dial that in'.



His observations are a reflection of the content you dropped, if you want to leave a better impression you have to make choices to present yourself in a way to achieve that.

Like interviewing for a job, there's no real correct way to do it. Every single thing about you tells a story to the person meeting you for the first time. It'd be unreasonable to think a guy who shows up on time with loads of experience, a humble attitude, and well mannered is a pretentious prick. But if you bathe in your self awareness and meme on yourself (?) while historically coming off as serious at the same time, then what can you really expect?

No one's asking you to go on camera with a script and a suit and read off a newsletter update on your band. Just do you without all the wokeness and exposition, or don't it's your choice. Just keep your expectations in-line for reactions based on the content you create.


----------



## lewis

This threads a dumpster fire


----------



## StevenC

lewis said:


> This threads a dumpster fire


Uh... This is a guitar forum. It's all a dumpster fire.


----------



## aesthyrian

Al name dropped Mike and Travis from Darkest Hour and confessed his true love for metal, that got me all fuzzy inside. I may not agree with all of his personal and business choices, but I do respect his love for metal. When he spoke of that I remembered why we are all here bitching about this.. we're obsessive over this style of music. Bunch of nuts we are.


----------



## Demiurge

Y'know what they say about throwing the ball in (American) football: many things can happen as a result, most of them bad... same goes for attempts at fan engagement.


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## bostjan

Some days I feel like I should just try to get my stuff out there, regardless of how cringey it might be, because, what if there is an audience out there for it?

I'm not talented at guitar, really, but I tryand I'm passionate about it. I have a lot of ideas, but they aren't necessarily good. But I try and I'm passionate about it. I love metal and I love music in general, so why not put myself and my music out there? What's the worst that could happen?

Well, I guess this thread answers that question.


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## KnightBrolaire

bostjan said:


> Some days I feel like I should just try to get my stuff out there, regardless of how cringey it might be, because, what if there is an audience out there for it?
> 
> I'm not talented at guitar, really, but I tryand I'm passionate about it. I have a lot of ideas, but they aren't necessarily good. But I try and I'm passionate about it. I love metal and I love music in general, so why not put myself and my music out there? What's the worst that could happen?
> 
> Well, I guess this thread answers that question.


The takeaway point should be don't be a narcissistic prick and pretend you can play shit you really can't. Moomoo has an ego way too big for someone who's basically a fucking blip on the tech metal scene at this point.


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## Aumann

bostjan said:


> Some days I feel like I should just try to get my stuff out there, regardless of how cringey it might be, because, what if there is an audience out there for it?
> 
> I'm not talented at guitar, really, but I tryand I'm passionate about it. I have a lot of ideas, but they aren't necessarily good. But I try and I'm passionate about it. I love metal and I love music in general, so why not put myself and my music out there? What's the worst that could happen?
> 
> Well, I guess this thread answers that question.



It doesn't. And that's why i question Al's self-awareness. It's not that he failed per se. It's how he handles it and how he reacts to it

You can humbly accept you fucked up and apologise. Or you can completely butcher a big slot on a festival and then accuse everyone of having a small penis and lack of sex when they call you out. (leaving out the fake playing stories from beforehand and aleged attitude towards bandmates etc...) 

He chose the latter unfortunately so he'll feel the backlash for it. And to Al: if you then have to ask me why i think you are not very self aware, you kind of prove my point.

When you receive fans' money and you take up big slots on anticipated festivals it's your job to deliver quality. If you then insult them for rightfully calling you out, you get them angry.
It's quite simple imo.

And i don't say this to flame anyone. It would just be cool for you to realise why the hostility is there to begin with, as it would gain you quite a bit of respect instead of contempt.


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## j3ps3

The first album was great and I would've loved a follow-up for that. That's why I've been checking this thread, in hopes of new music from the HAARP, but at this point. I don't really even care anymore. Too much drama and too much promises about new music with no actual delivery. And when there's no new music, it seems like it's only the drama that is left and that is in fact quite off-putting.


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## Lorcan Ward

Imagine if Al was fine to work with and Mike & Co stayed around we could have 2-3 more albums by now.

He has it in him to write a follow up album but he's not doing himself any favours constantly going through lineups and making non music content like this.


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## Musiscience

I'd like to share my opinion, but then again, I'm afraid he'll burn down my house.


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## SamSam

Best ignore him and let him continue to fade into obscurity. Once the last few well meaning promoters give up on giving him undeserved opportunities his 3 remaining fans will as well.


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## Al Mu'min

Exchanger said:


> Yes. Probably too much even to the point I don't dare to try things out unless I have a bulletproof plan and it becomes crippling sometimes.
> So you could say "well, at least I tried, failed sometimes, but also got some success so I'm ahead of you there", and you wouldn't even be so wrong.



This comes across as trait neuroticism i.e. sensitivity to fear which is different to self awareness.

We can either keep our muchness tucked away for no one to hear or we can nudge each other to chill out and be more open to receive what people have to offer.


[QUOTE=''_The gripe I have is more about how you handle failure afterwards, blaming on circumstances, the toxicity of the scene (which can be a thing, granted), the lack of active sexuality...if that's not code for "haterz are virgins lol" I don't know what it is.
In our individualistic western societies, we're incited to internalize things too much ("if you're jobless it's your fault and your fault only, if you're rich it's because you worked hard and has nothing to do with social origins or circumstances"), but on the other hand, always putting the responsibility on external causes is also deluded and unfair in general. Now, you do aknowledge a lot, you say you're re-evaluating things, it's an ongoing process, and I started by mentionning that. It's just that you always add these little 'jabs' yourself, and it tends to put the sincerity of the whole thing in doubt.''[/QUOTE]_

How I handle failure? hmm... before going further I ask you to review what your true intention is in asking this question. Do you want to see me fail? Or do you want to understand? You can see things through negative lens and only notice the negative or you can see things the other way and observe the positives. The negatives are abundantly clear ... the positives are that I took control of my destiny, worked relentlessly in developing a new skill set in 6 months and moved forward with courage despite the odds (to name a few... it's been great emotionally and spiritually).

Me replying on a post with some thoughts is just that; some thoughts. It feels like... people have difficulty with accepting some positive life changes I've made for myself and need to 'hold me in a cell' to cope with it.

Granted, putting all the pressure on one show was dumb... We should've done a handful to ease the pressure off. Look at your favourite djent bands; how many times have they been rubbish live? Mike, Spencer, Myke, etc. The frame people are running with is that metal vocalists have set such a high standard and my vocals are the absolute worse which is false.

As far as first shows goes it is what it was - I'm taking home the balls of steel award regardless 

''_His observations are a reflection of the content you dropped...''_

Not trying to leave any impression just turning up so at least the other side is heard for people to make up their own minds with sufficient data.

Historically the information has been wholly one sided... If I had done this from day one the 'picture' of who Al is wouldn't have settled the way it has.

Nuance people... When things got difficult back in the day I reached out to several managers to help; Sumerian said no 'we got this' and off we went. Had we had a manager to hold court and keep the emotions managed the Disclosure line up may have survived and flourished. C'est la vie.

At the end of the day, I'm gonna do my thing and keep things moving. You don't have to like it. You can frame things however you want. My expectations are zero. The same freedom that allows you to share your thoughts and feelings is there for me also so yeah...

NEW MUSIC SOON


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## Aumann

So you don't give two shits about fans who gave you money to see jack shit result. It's about your freedom to deliver crap. 

You go on stage without any singing skill and then you try to point the finger and say others have been crap yet set the bar so high? 

Yeah. No self-awareness whatsoever.


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## Musiscience

Aumann said:


> So you don't give two shits about fans who gave you money to see jack shit result. It's about your freedom to deliver crap.
> 
> You go on stage without any singing skill and then you try to point the finger and say others have been crap yet set the bar so high?
> 
> Yeah. No self-awareness whatsoever.



I was about to make another attempt at third rate humor, but you guys need to realize that you can't argue somebody out of mental illness. It's pointless.


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## bulb

Aumann said:


> So you don't give two shits about fans who gave you money to see jack shit result. It's about your freedom to deliver crap.
> 
> You go on stage without any singing skill and then you try to point the finger and say others have been crap yet set the bar so high?
> 
> Yeah. No self-awareness whatsoever.



I don't try to indulge in Schadenfreude, I don't think it's healthy. But goddamn sometimes life just delivers it, doesn't it?


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## akinari




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## Exchanger

Musiscience said:


> I was about to make another attempt at third rate humor, but you guys need to realize that you can't argue somebody out of mental illness. It's pointless.


I dunno man, that's not nice to people who actually suffer from mental illnesses. It seems I'm neurotic myself (can't even deny it to be fair).
But more seriously, there are lots of people who have to live with mental illness and they don't deserve to be lumped with other people who just behave inappropriately.
I may also be overly naive and hope that people can change, but yeah some discussions can slip into a dead end real quick and stop being constructive (not blaming anyone there).



Al Mu'min said:


> How I handle failure? hmm... before going further I ask you to review what your true intention is in asking this question.


There's no question, it's just an observation. You often come back with vague excuses tinted with blame, or turn things around in a way that makes you look good...again, what I said about internalizing vs externalizing, there can be too much of one but too much of the other and it comes across as dishonest. It's nice to be 'positive' about everything, but you can't just endlessly skew reality to fit your point of view.
If you know in your heart that it's all true and that it's just circumstances shining a bad light upon you, then all is fine...I'm just saying this is not what transpires.


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## Al Mu'min

Aumann said:


> So you don't give two shits about fans who gave you money to see jack shit result. It's about your freedom to deliver crap.
> 
> You go on stage without any singing skill and then you try to point the finger and say others have been crap yet set the bar so high?
> 
> Yeah. No self-awareness whatsoever.


train a pidgy ffs


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## Al Mu'min

bulb said:


> I don't try to indulge in Schadenfreude, I don't think it's healthy. But goddamn sometimes life just delivers it, doesn't it?


spoken like a true djent pig 

overall think im gonna just keep the faith tbh


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## SamSam

What a great comeback.


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## Musiscience

Exchanger said:


> I dunno man, that's not nice to people who actually suffer from mental illnesses. It seems I'm neurotic myself (can't even deny it to be fair).
> But more seriously, there are lots of people who have to live with mental illness and they don't deserve to be lumped with other people who just behave inappropriately.
> I may also be overly naive and hope that people can change, but yeah some discussions can slip into a dead end real quick and stop being constructive (not blaming anyone there).



I didn't mean it that way, sorry if I came across as being insensitive. I myself have been suffering from mental illness for many years (and being treated for it). Most of the times, your cognitive distortions are very well anchored and there is no amount of arguing that will rid you of them. The change needs to come from inside, therapy and realizations about yourself. I suspect there is a bit of that at play here, as no sane person can completely deny reality in favor of cognitive distortions and be completely sane. 

It just feels like a pointless endeavor (from my personal experience and knowledge in the field) to try and confront him over and over. Also, narcissistic people tend not react well to confrontation, so it's not a productive approach. Ignoring and moving on just feels like the right thing to do. Just thought I would share to save a bit of time to everybody involved.


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## Aumann

Musiscience said:


> It just feels like a pointless endeavor (from my personal experience and knowledge in the field) to try and confront him over and over. Also, narcissistic people tend not react well to confrontation, so it's not a productive approach. Ignoring and moving on just feels like the right thing to do. Just thought I would share to save a bit of time to everybody involved.



Meh, it's not like i expected him to change. Just wanted to understand his mind a bit more as i can just not figure out how it works. And i saw my expectations pretty much confirmed. 


Anyway, i have to go train a pidgey.


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## Musiscience

Aumann said:


> Meh, it's not like i expected him to change. Just wanted to understand his mind a bit more as i can just not figure out how it works. And i saw my expectations pretty much confirmed.
> 
> 
> Anyway, i have to go train a pidgey.



Good luck, may he one day be a Pigeotto!


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## SamSam

SamSam said:


> What a great comeback.



Just to clarify I didn't mean the Euroblast performance!


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## Obsidian Soul

Is this supposed to be a reference to Misha's girlfriend?I'm confused by this "keep the faith" joke.


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## akinari

Obsidian Soul said:


> Is this supposed to be a reference to Misha's girlfriend?I'm confused by this "keep the faith" joke.



Keep the Faith is the title of Bon Jovi's fifth album so I was assuming he was comparing Periphery to them.


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## Al Mu'min

this isn't about music... or art... or virtue... the impulse behind these posts is 'down with Al' - elaborated in different angles which reveals something broader... this isn't just about musicians competing. *this is about the game of life and struggling to compete in the real world with women and work also i.e. life and resorting to attacking those who are doing better to 'level the playing field' or better yet, flip the whole thing upside down and see how things fare like that. *

You don't need to do that shit bruv. you can be better. #faith


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## GunpointMetal

Well, this is all just hilariously awesome.


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## Kaura

Edit: Sorry, I don't want to get banned again.


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## MiPwnYew

Al Mu'min said:


> this isn't about music... or art... or virtue... the impulse behind these posts is 'down with Al' - elaborated in different angles which reveals something broader... this isn't just about musicians competing. *this is about the game of life and struggling to compete in the real world with women and work also i.e. life and resorting to attacking those who are doing better to 'level the playing field' or better yet, flip the whole thing upside down and see how things fare like that. *
> 
> You don't need to do that shit bruv. you can be better. #faith


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