# An octave lower than drop c (super low tuning)



## supersizedsumo (Nov 20, 2010)

hey people! i posted on sevenstring.org before to ask people about string gauges because i wanted to try this super low tuning. i tried it, and i like it. so far, i only changed the 8th string, but i'll change the others when i have time to play guitar. the tuning is *cgcgcfad* which is like normal drop c (cgcfad) with the open c power chord repeated again an octave lower like a drop c bass (cg). *the 8th string is a .130*, so it kind of looks goofy, but it's great. anyways, if anybody curious to hear it, i made a little video to demonstrate the tuning.
YouTube - an octave lower than drop c


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## highlordmugfug (Nov 20, 2010)

It probably sounds pretty sweet in the room, but that webcam makes the lowest C flubuhmud.

Got any other way to record so we can hear the lowness? \m/


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## vhmetalx (Nov 20, 2010)

I saw the video. I've already said it too but I wish I coulda done it when I had my rga8..
Hopefully i can try it if i ever get another 8


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## Xherion (Nov 21, 2010)

Is that an FM408? Actually sounds better than I thought it would.


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## LacesOutTyler (Nov 21, 2010)

Sounds pretty shitty, especially with the extremely bad intonation of that guitar. 

Not seeing how this would be applicable in almost any situation either.


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## BryanFTWL (Nov 21, 2010)

LacesOutTyler said:


> Sounds pretty shitty, especially with the extremely bad intonation of that guitar.
> 
> Not seeing how this would be applicable in almost any situation either.



Couldn't agree more.


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## highlordmugfug (Nov 21, 2010)

LacesOutTyler said:


> Sounds pretty shitty, especially with the extremely bad intonation of that guitar.
> 
> Not seeing how this would be applicable in almost any situation either.





BryanFTWL said:


> Couldn't agree more.









I have my mockingbird in Eb-C-G-c-Eb-eb where the lowest Eb is the same as a half stepd down on a bass, and the highest eb is the octave above the one before it, so I'm sensitive to low tuning haters  

But I can see how it would be possible to use this interestingly, I do agree that the intonation needs to be sorted out though.


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## BryanFTWL (Nov 21, 2010)

Just because we have an opinion doesn't mean we're hating. Seriously. I usually stray from the, "There's a reason they make bass guitar." Comments, because I enjoy tuning low, but that is just, not musical.


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## highlordmugfug (Nov 21, 2010)

BryanFTWL said:


> Just because we have an opinion doesn't mean we're hating. Seriously. I usually stray from the, "There's a reason they make bass guitar." Comments, because I enjoy tuning low, but that is just, not musical.


 It's all good man, the "haterrzz" bit was mostly in jest anyway.

It's really not that far of a stretch I mean, there are some guys on here who have 10 strings, and standard for a 10 adding an extra low string would be a C#. And Devin Townsend I'm fairly certain has used (maybe not in a recording, but on a guitar) a tuning with the lowest string being tuned to the ultralow C. Even if you aren't crazy about Hevy Devy, you can't deny that he is a pretty musical man.

The only reason I'm typing so much is because I get verbose when I get tired, but the only thing I guess I'm really trying to say is that I think it could be used efficiently and musically. And maybe that if he intonates properly and makes a not-webcam-and-youtube-quality clip it will sound nice(r).


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## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 21, 2010)

That's cool man, if I tuned down that much I'd go for an 11 like my old teacher had. I hate losing the high range. At the moment I'm in drop F# and I cant stand missing that high E 

One day when I have enough money I'm going to nab a custom fanned 8


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## xtrustisyoursx (Nov 21, 2010)

as someone above said, serious intonation issues.


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## Self Bias (Nov 21, 2010)

Cool stuff, and no it doesn't sound like a bass if you set it up right. Basses are cool too, for diff sounds, but heavy palm muted riffage on an .080 @ E(2?) or even lowerthrough a BKP or Blackout is a sound you cannot (usually) get with a bass.
Intonation can be an ish w/ some bridges. TOMs have limited travel. Floyds have more leeway, but mine barely made it.
I give thumbs up to your experimentation. Just keep messing with it- setup, eq, etc.
BTW I did a show using one of my abominations as a bass-lol. That was just a 25.5"er. Sounds pretty full and heavy when you double the guy on standard tuned ax.


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## Sponge (Nov 21, 2010)

Not hating, but the thickest string is not a clear C by any means.

The player in this vid has no power behind the picking, and metal guitar playing comes from heavy picking, and the thickest string still goes out of whack at 0:14. Imagine if the string was played by any of you who pick an average level.

The intonation is awful. 

On the other hand, it is a good indicator to show that scale length matters.


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## CFB (Nov 21, 2010)

Sponge said:


> metal guitar playing comes from heavy picking




Not true. There are many players out there who are metal as all hell but pick very lightly. It's true that you get a more punchy sound when picking harder but that doesn't mean not doing it isn't metal.


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## Sponge (Nov 21, 2010)

CFB said:


> Not true. There are many players out there who are metal as all hell but pick very lightly. It's true that you get a more punchy sound when picking harder but that doesn't mean not doing it isn't metal.



Who? You can definitely tell a heavy picker from a light picker and light picking doesn't go as well with heavy playing.


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## vampiregenocide (Nov 21, 2010)

Actually sounds pretty sweet.


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## Evil7 (Nov 21, 2010)

uhh o time for a baritone 9 string gutiar.


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## Marv Attaxx (Nov 21, 2010)

Looks like you need this
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...e-new-ibanez-sr7viisc-bass-guitar-hybrid.html


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## highlordmugfug (Nov 21, 2010)

Marv Attaxx said:


> Looks like you need this
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...e-new-ibanez-sr7viisc-bass-guitar-hybrid.html


I want one of those.


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## xJeremiahx (Nov 21, 2010)

Sponge said:


> metal guitar playing comes from heavy picking


 


Sponge said:


> light picking doesn't go as well with heavy playing.


 
Honestly you sound dumb. I use a .60 pick and I don't need to bash on my strings to sound "heavy". Hell...I just saw Ion Dissonance recently, Ant and Seb both have relatively light picking hands.


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## ixlramp (Nov 21, 2010)

supersizedsumo said:


> *cgcgcfad* *the 8th string is a .130*



It sounds good to me. Excellent tuning.

Octave 4 Plus sell guitar strings designed for B0 / C#1, gauges .110 or .118. They're in the 'Custom Roundwound Strings' section.


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## supersizedsumo (Nov 21, 2010)

Xherion said:


> Is that an FM408? Actually sounds better than I thought it would.



yes it is


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## supersizedsumo (Nov 21, 2010)

oh, and yes the intonation is annoying me. i wanted to fix it, but i don't have the right tools for the bridge. it requires a tiny allen wrench, but mine is a little too big. yes, i knew there were going to be ppl opposed to this. i think meshuggah's spasm utilizes low tuning where the lowest note is like B or B# which is a little lower than my c. i want to use it for stuff like that, but not use it often. just chunky stuff during breakdowns. i like using the low g a lot though. no, i don't have any cool mics or anything. i guess i could've adjusted the amp settings a bit cuz i have the gain and bass turned all the way up  that ibanez bass guitar hybrid looks cool too btw!


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## JPhoenix19 (Nov 21, 2010)

supersizedsumo said:


> i guess i could've adjusted the amp settings a bit cuz i have the gain and bass turned all the way up



 


It's waaaay too low for my tastes, but it does sound cool. I bet if you fixed the EQ settings and lowered the gain it'd sound monstrous (without regard to the intonation)!


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## MintBerryCrunch (Nov 22, 2010)

supersizedsumo said:


> i think meshuggah's spasm utilizes low tuning where the lowest note is like B or B# which is a little lower than my c. i want to use it for stuff like that, but not use it often.




They did that song in D. a step up from your C.


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## Danxile (Nov 22, 2010)

MintBerryCrunch said:


> They did that song in D. a step up from your C.



...Pretty sure its an octave lower than Bb. I have a digitech whammy pedal and have put the octave down to play Spasm, as it is one of my favorite Meshuggah songs.


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## Slavocracy (Nov 22, 2010)

MintBerryCrunch said:


> They did that song in D. a step up from your C.


A#


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## 7StringGuy5150 (Nov 22, 2010)

i thought for Spasm they just tuned the 8s down a step to E-A-D-G-C-F-A-D..??


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## Asrial (Nov 22, 2010)

What the- That would be so friggin awesome for rhythm guitar.


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## Danxile (Nov 22, 2010)

7StringGuy5150 said:


> i thought for Spasm they just tuned the 8s down a step to E-A-D-G-C-F-A-D..??



no. Spasm is wayyyy lower than that. No need for a bass guitar at that tuning, the massive chugging you're hearing is their guitars. A# (or Bb) an Octave lower.


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## Antimatter (Nov 22, 2010)

Spasm is in fact in Bb an octave lower
Because I believe that Obsidian was in D or maybe Db and it sounds quite a bit lower than that


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## supersizedsumo (Nov 22, 2010)

MintBerryCrunch said:


> They did that song in D. a step up from your C.



just looked it up and it says it's a B on wikipedia. they said 5 semitones (half steps) lower than Eb. that's B, right? sorry, i'm not that smart with music.


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## supersizedsumo (Nov 22, 2010)

oh, and a note on the intonation...

lots of the notes i hit are sharp because those are old strings and i press them so hard on the frets that they bend. i'm used to really thick strings. my 6 string guitar has thicker strings than any of those old strings. it still needs some work on the bridge though.


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## Hollowway (Nov 23, 2010)

supersizedsumo said:


> oh, and a note on the intonation...
> 
> lots of the notes i hit are sharp because those are old strings and i press them so hard on the frets that they bend. i'm used to really thick strings. my 6 string guitar has thicker strings than any of those old strings. it still needs some work on the bridge though.



Well, also a reduced tension on the string will tend to make it go sharp when picked, so that is likely at play as well.


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## Variant (Nov 23, 2010)

Danxile said:


> no. Spasm is wayyyy lower than that. No need for a bass guitar at that tuning, the massive chugging you're hearing is their guitars. A# (or Bb) an Octave lower.



Bb0, a step below the OP's C1. 








G0


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## Razzy (Nov 23, 2010)

supersizedsumo said:


> just looked it up and it says it's a B on wikipedia. they said 5 semitones (half steps) lower than Eb. that's B, right? sorry, i'm not that smart with music.



5 Semitones lower than Eb is Bb.

Eb-D-C#-C-B-Bb


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## Adam (Nov 23, 2010)

Variant said:


> Bb0, a step below the OP's C1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



F#0  (it's a .175)


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## Variant (Nov 23, 2010)

^





*.195 C#0* 



Frankly, so far as the guitar goes, I need more scale length to go any lower. Anything over a ~.120 starts to sound like shit. Tried a .130 but it started to take on a distorted bass quality, which isn't the point, obviously... I've got bass guitar samples down to *G00*, which can even transpose lower pretty well since it all essentially sounds the same down that far.  Really you just sample the transient attack of the finger on the string on its own layer, and move the sine of the sting vibrating around with a good pitch correction system like VariAudio. Really, its more about aligning phase and getting your overtones right down that low.


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## Adam (Nov 23, 2010)

Variant said:


> ^
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Yah I know what you mean, even at G#0 at 30", I wasn't completely satisfied, but the right strings make all the difference. I still would prefer a 36"-30" multiscale though


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## supersizedsumo (Nov 23, 2010)

lol you guys are nuts! i like the bridge on that steinberger btw!


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## Tomo009 (Nov 23, 2010)

I can hear how it could be used, but i doubt you could base a song around that bottom string. That Icarus Lives riff cover sounded pretty terrible to my ears. It would take some very creative or very monotonous writing to actually base a song on that note. For instance Meshuggah's spasm works mostly because they barely move from the lowest note and the song is based on a groove, all rhythic playing.


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## Antimatter (Nov 24, 2010)

The only reason I would use a note lower than bass D on a guitar is a groove type thing like Spasm or to make huge ass chords


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## supersizedsumo (Nov 24, 2010)

Tomo009 said:


> I can hear how it could be used, but i doubt you could base a song around that bottom string. That Icarus Lives riff cover sounded pretty terrible to my ears. It would take some very creative or very monotonous writing to actually base a song on that note. For instance Meshuggah's spasm works mostly because they barely move from the lowest note and the song is based on a groove, all rhythic playing.



i totally agree. a song based off of that low c would suck, but it's there just to throw in here and there. this is just to have around so i can sprinkle it here and there in songs and provide deep rhythms.


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## leandroab (Nov 24, 2010)

Variant said:


> Bb0, a step below the OP's C1.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Adam said:


> F#0  (it's a .175)





Variant said:


> ^
> 
> 
> 
> ...









*195.0* *Ab-5*


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## Hallic (Nov 24, 2010)

is that a 25,5" scale 8string? O DEAR SPACEBUNNIES /hate for guitars that a poorly designed


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## Antimatter (Nov 24, 2010)

I wouldn't buy an eight string any lower than 27" scale


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## supersizedsumo (Nov 25, 2010)

mine is only a 26" it's kind of annoying


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## xtrustisyoursx (Nov 25, 2010)

Hallic said:


> is that a 25,5" scale 8string? O DEAR SPACEBUNNIES /hate for guitars that a poorly designed



/hate for typical ss.org extended-scale nazis


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## Variant (Nov 27, 2010)

> i totally agree. a song based off of that low c would suck, but it's there just to throw in here and there. this is just to have around so i can sprinkle it here and there in songs and provide deep rhythms.



 I'm gonna disagree with this here. I've got plenty of rhythms written for the current project based strictly around movement on the low G0 and D1 stings, bottom seven frets or so. You do not have to just ride one note at all, IMHO.

Unfortunately, at the moment, the only samples I've got put together _*are*_ based on the root notes, as their dry runs for mixtests.  




> The only reason I would use a note lower than bass D on a guitar is a groove type thing like Spasm or to make huge ass chords.



On the converse, I wouldn't recommend this. It just doesn't work out... below a certain point chords (even fifths) clash as the huge string tends to bow more than the higher one, and vibrate out of phase in general... not to mention the higher note just comes in and takes away balls from the low note without adding much of it's own character. It's just kinda ugly sounding, and not in a good/dissonant way. Keep in mind, you're not working off the fundamental at all anyway, A G0 (24.5 Hz) being high passed with a fairly steep slope at ~70 Hz is letting tough only a fractional amount of the first order (49.0 Hz) overtones, and really having it's foundation in the second order note (98 Hz).


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## ixlramp (Nov 29, 2010)

supersizedsumo said:


> len 26"
> 
> D .011" PL == 16.19#
> A, .014" PL == 14.72#
> ...



supersizedsumo, If you would like the low G to be the same tension as the .070 C, I recommend a 0.95. I you would like the tension to fall steadily from .070 C to .130 C, use a .090


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## supersizedsumo (Nov 29, 2010)

yeah, i think im going with a 90 because of that 8th string. thanks dude!


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## Hollowway (Nov 30, 2010)

Variant said:


> G0



Dude, I didn't know you were into Dime!  

Seriously, though, I've been reading about your composing for those super low notes and I'm DYING to hear some of your stuff. You need to post some tunes or clips or something once you get it going. Especially with your fifths tuning, I'm really curious to hear what you come up with.


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## supersizedsumo (Dec 12, 2010)

Go Web Go!


hey guys! i put on the rest of the strings. i will put up a new video soon. in the mean time, you can listen to a song that i recorded with my friends today using the tuning.


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## GATA4 (Dec 12, 2010)

the sound is pretty intelligible to me. I'm just curious as to how you got the string to fit through the tuning peg? haha, I like how it sounds though. you got the tension right.


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## supersizedsumo (Dec 12, 2010)

i drilled the holes bigger. those damned grover tuners couldn't even handle the 70! I didn't drill a huge one for the 130 though; i stuck in the tapered part and kept wrapping the string around so that it formed a nasty-looking wind on the tuner.


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## supersizedsumo (Dec 14, 2010)

YouTube - Lower Octave Drop C continued

made another video with it! all the strings are on!


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## Antimatter (Dec 14, 2010)

The sound in that video was really muddy, kind of hard to hear what was going on


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## supersizedsumo (Dec 14, 2010)

damn! do you think it's because of the gain or because of the eq?


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## Antimatter (Dec 14, 2010)

It didn't seem to be much of the gain, I think you might have too much bass
I'm no expert though, I just spin the knobs around aimlessly until it sounds good


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## Variant (Dec 15, 2010)

supersizedsumo said:


> damn! do you think it's because of the gain or because of the eq?



Until someone makes software for the average Joe to _*easily*_ sync his DAW session with his cam session, _*DEFAULT*_ to an audio only post. While that ESP is sexy, and that cam capture good, I'd rather hear it than see it.


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## ixlramp (Dec 15, 2010)

supersizedsumo said:


> I didn't drill a huge one for the 130 though; i stuck in the tapered part and kept wrapping the string around so that it formed a nasty-looking wind on the tuner.



... that's really not a good idea   You can buy guitar .118 or .124 from Octave 4 Plus


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## ixlramp (Dec 15, 2010)

Deleted accidental double post.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Dec 15, 2010)

Sweet Jesus there's no reason to cake your stuff in gain like that bro


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## bostjan (Dec 15, 2010)

No personal offence intended, but my ears are not digging that tone at all. Not that I am opposed to tuning that low based on principle.

Could you post a video showing a tuner on the open low string, then on the fifth fret harmonic? I'd be interested to see if they match the same not (two octaves apart, of course).


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## Siphaeon (Dec 16, 2010)

Variant said:


> Until someone makes software for the average Joe to _*easily*_ sync his DAW session with his cam session, _*DEFAULT*_ to an audio only post. While that ESP is sexy, and that cam capture good, I'd rather hear it than see it.



Top 5 free video editing software programs 

Or any other video editing software like for me the Adobe Premiere was easiest to use so I stuck with it. Just turn the project into .mp3 or whatever and drag 'n drop to video editor. Then drag 'n drop the video file. Check they sync and it's done.

And I couldn't agree more with "I'd rather hear it than see it."


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## Variant (Dec 20, 2010)

Siphaeon said:


> Top 5 free video editing software programs
> 
> Or any other video editing software like for me the Adobe Premiere was easiest to use so I stuck with it. Just turn the project into .mp3 or whatever and drag 'n drop to video editor. Then drag 'n drop the video file. Check they sync and it's done.
> 
> And I couldn't agree more with "I'd rather hear it than see it."



I didn't mean for me. I don't record these things, I don't even know how to use my webcam.  CC this to the _*rest*_ of the internet.


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## Meatbucket (Dec 20, 2010)

Sheesh. And I thought normal drop C was still heavy enough. o.o


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## Siphaeon (Dec 22, 2010)

Variant said:


> I didn't mean for me. I don't record these things, I don't even know how to use my webcam.  CC this to the _*rest*_ of the internet.



Haha, yeah that should be done. Is it like [email protected]?


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