# Black Frets?



## Riffer (Mar 10, 2010)

I always have thought that it would be cool to have black frets. I was just wondering if this is possible. You can always paint the frets but the paint would wear off. Then theres powder coating which will come off too. I wanted to know if there are any kind of material that is black all the way through and could be used as fret wire? The only thing I could think of was Onyx but I have no idea if it would actually work. Any suggetions?

-Tom


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## Deadseen (Mar 10, 2010)

Wrought iron might possible work, Not the most long lasting but for a concept guitar it might work a couple of years before you have to ReFret.


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## MaxOfMetal (Mar 10, 2010)

I can't think of any material that's completely black that won't scuff, deform, or be far too expensive to be practical.

For something that's 100% aesthetic, it just doesn't seem to be worth it.


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## Riffer (Mar 10, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I can't think of any material that's completely black that won't scuff, deform, or be far too expensive to be practical.
> 
> For something that's 100% aesthetic, it just doesn't seem to be worth it.


 Yeah thats what I was thinking. If there is something that is black that would work but its alot of $$$ then nevermind. I just didnt know if there was something I was missing.


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## jeremyb (Mar 10, 2010)

You need some BLACK METAL eh!!







But seriously, you could anodize them, but it will wear off after a while, much better idea than paint tho'...


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## jymellis (Mar 10, 2010)

i wonder if hematite would work?


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## angus (Mar 10, 2010)

There most certainly is! I have a bass with delrin frets- they're plastic! Delrin is a very durable, lubricious plastic is very easy to work with and works extremely well for frets. It usually comes in black and white. It is in bar form, though, so you actually have to cut a radiused, roung fret tang. A bit more complicated, but good luthiers can do it- but it does mean you won't be able to put regular frets back in unless you replace the fretboard.

For a bass, it makes it sound like a fretless, and the feel under your hands is awesome. I' not sure how well it would work for guitar- I imagine it would work very well for a jazz box, but it probably isn't the optimal material for metal. 

But it barely wears with proper technique and certainly has the look you want. But it isn't worth the expense. It is possible, though.

You actually can use nickel anodizing, too, but it is very expensive. Not the same process as aluminum or brass anodization, but similar.


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## Luafcm (Mar 10, 2010)

What about a black plastic fret with a full length metal tang? It would give you the look of a 'single rail' hotrail pickup at the apex of the fret That's the only spot where the string contacts, so you should still get your tone transferring through the metal portion of the fret into the guitar.

Umm.... like this:


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## MTech (Mar 10, 2010)

I don't think there's any cheap way to do it because COW wanted that done on his sig model and it never happened.....


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## Evil7 (Mar 11, 2010)

Being a body piercer for 4 years i researched alot of metals.... You can get black titanium... im not sure how much it will cost you.. but if money is no issue.. this may be the way to go... There is Solid Black titanium used in jewelry.No coating paint,plating ect...... Just "balck metal".. I think there are solid black drill bits ect made of Titanium carbide as well... 
Titanium is super strong and very resistant to corrosion.


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## gunshow86de (Mar 11, 2010)

^
Can titanium be filed and shaped though? I know diamond files are very strong, but I think titanium may be stronger.


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## Evil7 (Mar 11, 2010)

Im not too sure.. but to create jewelry out of it... you have to be able to "work with it".... also Im sure there may be an alloy such as the Titanium carbide that may be softer.. Im pretty sure Dimond is harder than titanium.  
who ever said hematite.... no way.. Hematite is super weak ..it fractures with just a lilttle bump.. ever droped a Hematite ring?


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## SargeantVomit (Mar 11, 2010)

Evil7 said:


> Being a body piercer for 4 years i researched alot of metals.... You can get black titanium... im not sure how much it will cost you.. but if money is no issue.. this may be the way to go... There is Solid Black titanium used in jewelry.No coating paint,plating ect...... Just "balck metal".. I think there are solid black drill bits ect made of Titanium carbide as well...
> Titanium is super strong and very resistant to corrosion.



Titanium is not solid black, it's anodized, it might work but I wouldn't count on it lasting very long and it might give you a different feel on the fret. Anodizing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Carbide is not a metal, it's more of a ceramic and also has to be processed to become a different colour. It's also not flexible at all and it's heavier than lead, you would need to manufacture 24 frets and build the neck around them haha. Carbide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I seem to remember an obscure company offering black frets a few years ago but they were outrageously expensive. Maybe I'm mistaken though....


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## 7deadlysins666 (Mar 11, 2010)

I remember reading something somewhere about if you boil the fretwire, it will turn black, but if you do it too long they will turn blue or something. I think it was on the Moser "brotherhood of wood" forum... i'll look and see if I can find it.


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## jymellis (Mar 11, 2010)

Evil7 said:


> Im not too sure.. but to create jewelry out of it... you have to be able to "work with it".... also Im sure there may be an alloy such as the Titanium carbide that may be softer.. Im pretty sure Dimond is harder than titanium.
> who ever said hematite.... no way.. Hematite is super weak ..it fractures with just a lilttle bump.. ever droped a Hematite ring?


 
i dont own or wear ANY rings and i have been married for 13 years lol. i didnt know anything about the stuff. just seen it a couple times at the museum and thought it looked cool


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## Luafcm (Mar 11, 2010)

jymellis said:


> i dont own or wear ANY rings and i have been married for 13 years lol. i didnt know anything about the stuff. just seen it a couple times at the museum and thought it looked cool


I wear a black titanium wedding band. It's black metal! 

I doubt that titanium could be easily formed into a fret. Can you extrude this stuff? I'll bet that a luthier would kick you square in the balls if you ever showed up with titanium frets for a crown and leveling.


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## jymellis (Mar 11, 2010)

gunshow86de said:


> ^
> Can titanium be filed and shaped though? I know diamond files are very strong, but I think titanium may be stronger.


 
yes it can. i have tons of radio controlled car parts made from it. and i have used a dremmel to either drill the stuff or even sand it down. it takes a while and can be done but its tough. the green chassis on my micro rs4 in these pics is titanium, the silver uprights that hold the upper titanim chassis to the c/f lower chassis is also titanium. all the screws, nuts and bolts are either titanium or titanium nitride coated stainless steel. also alot of the purple front suspension components are titanium. did i mention i also replace most of the screws on my guitars with titanium


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## raximkoron (Mar 11, 2010)

My first guess would have been for high alumina ceramic, but yeah, you'd have to tip-toe around the instrument for fear that you'd crack a fret.

Titanium isn't really the super-metal a lot of people seem to think it is. It's very strong for it's weight and can be used to make quite a few useful alloys... and even that rainbow and/or gold coating you see on some knives and drill bits is just a titanium-nitride anodized coating... essentially the industrial world's version of 'gold-plated connectors'.

Tungsten would be unbelievably badass and would be acceptably dark, but I have no idea how someone, short of a light bulb manufacturer, would be able to work it into fretwire.


On another thought, I think the only way the fret color would be visible is if you had a maple fretboard... if you had ebony or rosewood, I don't think the color really shows to anybody else, just the shine of the frets... so you'd have to use Delrin to get away from a metallic look, and by then I think it would just look like a fretless guitar.


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## Deadseen (Mar 11, 2010)

What about carbon fibre ?


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## Evil7 (Mar 11, 2010)

*Titanium: A Design Element*

Titanium, a designers dream come true... and a metalsmith's dread or...passion! Titanium's amazing strength, resilience, relative lightness, biological and chemical inertness (it does not interact easily with other elements and substances, it is corrosion free and resists most acids and other corrosive materials) makes it ideal for designers of everything from cutlery to artificial joints, Ferrari hubcaps, eyeglass frames, mountain-bikes, hunting knives, and jewelry. In most cases, jewelry items are hand crafted or finished after machining from a solid titanium slab since melting, welding, or casting titanium all involve challenges stemming from Titanium's high interactivity at very high (e.g., melting) temperatures. What renders titanium so desirable is also the cause of much toil, chagrin and 'trouble'...The hard, labor-intensive cutting and shaping process explains the scarcity of Titanium jewelry manufacturers and a price tag commensurable with that of 'precious' metal jewelry. To work with it-- you must love it. An important property of Titanium (and more so its higher quality alloys) is its strength and unique springiness. Titanium's lower-than steel "Modulus of Elasticity" (it is half that of steel's) coupled with very high Tensile and Yield Strength means that its resistance to change is higher than steel's, and is exercised over shorter allowable room for movement by the metal: a Titanium spring of the same performance and resistance power will be shorter than the one made of steel, and, it will develop metal fatigue or fractions at a lower rate than steel. Car manufacturers are now studying the use of Titanium and new Titanium alloys in prestige car-model shocks.
Absolute Design - Titanium, Black Titanium, Black Zirconium & Black Gold Wedding Bands
Scroll to the bottom of this web page.
It says their black titanium jewelry employs NO external coating,plating,painting,injecting,or spraying. As much as a wedding band would be worn, a coating would rub off ater years.
If a spring can be made of titanium so can a fret. 
i bet it will cost tho..


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## HighGain510 (Mar 11, 2010)

jymellis said:


>




You mean the predator tomb actually contained a titanium RC car?!   Predator!


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## Ben.Last (Mar 12, 2010)

raximkoron said:


> Titanium isn't really the super-metal a lot of people seem to think it is.



You can thank movies like Terminator for that. "Oh, we need to have this robot that can't be damaged by guns and stuff... what should we say it's made out of? Well, no one knows what titanium is, let's say it's made of that"


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