# I asked Rob Guz of M.A.N about his ERG´s. here´s his reply :)



## MF_Kitten (Feb 23, 2009)

you´ve probably all seen his video that was posted here earlier, with him showing off his 11 string guitar and all that stuff. i asked him about his axes, and also if the bass is an octave below, or the same octave as the guitar, and how they make it sound like something else than a rumbly mess 

his reply:

"Well, I..ve using several kind of tunings through the years on my 11-stringed axe. Nowadays the tuning/string gauge, is:

F#1 =0.074
F#1 =0.072
H1 =0.060
H1 =0.058
F# =0.046
H =0.036
E =0.024
A =0.014
c#1 =0.012
F#1 =0.009
a1 =0.007

The tunings on the 6- or 7- stringed axes;

F#1 =0.072
H1 =0.060
F# =0.046
H =0.036
E =0.024
G# =0.013
c#1 =0.010

and the bass is tuned 1 otcave lower -that means; no Meshuggah stuff!  It..s all in the hands, to make a good sound X))


The axes that I used on Hacker Sapiens was - as I can recall a Schecter Diamond series, and a Gibson Firebird, with the original pickups......"

thought maybe you people would like to know about the axes and their tunings, at least for the 11-string


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## vampiregenocide (Feb 23, 2009)

You're awesome. Thats quite possibly the most insane tuning I've ever seen.

EDIT : Hang on, wtf is H1. My music theory isn't great, but that ain't right :s


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## gunshow86de (Feb 23, 2009)

vampiregenocide said:


> You're awesome. Thats quite possibly the most insane tuning I've ever seen.
> 
> EDIT : Hang on, wtf is H1. My music theory isn't great, but that ain't right :s



I can't explain it, it's something to do with German music. Read this:

the note "H" in German musical nomenclature


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## atavism-dream (Feb 23, 2009)

Can somebody explain what H is? Is it a B? 

EDIT: Too late, inquisitive bastards


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 23, 2009)

hah! 

"H" is the same as B, it&#180;s just a traditional european name for the same note. when i went to learn to play the keyboard as a kid, i learnt the notes in the piano-octave as "C-D-E-F-G-A-H-C"

i&#180;ve since gotten used to B though, as it actually makes sense.

most people that have learnt instruments from teachers have learned the note&#180;s name as being "H".

it&#180;s confusing at first, though


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## vampiregenocide (Feb 23, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> hah!
> 
> "H" is the same as B, it´s just a traditional european name for the same note. when i went to learn to play the keyboard as a kid, i learnt the notes in the piano-octave as "C-D-E-F-G-A-H-C"
> 
> ...



Thanks for clearing that up lol


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## cataclysm_child (Feb 23, 2009)

And it's all because of a misunderstanding hundreds of years ago, some stupid guy thought the 'b' looked like a 'h' on the notes. c-d-e-f-g-a-H-c, yeah, that makes sense! ... NOT!


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## bs_tritonus (Feb 23, 2009)

I have learned that it was actually a typo made some hundred years back. a b and a h is not that different. A small line that separates them. It seems that the original line was: a b c d e f g, but we here up north are still hanging on to that typo.
For some stupid reason though, we always start on c. (majorbachshitwhynotwritemodalinsteadofthatstupidcrap)

edit: Damn. Michael beat me to it!


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## Piledriver (Feb 23, 2009)

hes tuning is really bizarre. 
two unison B and two unison F#?


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## TomAwesome (Feb 23, 2009)

It had something to do with some sloppy cursive, I think, which would explain why h and b would look similar. There's no reason that people should still be calling it H, though.

Interesting tuning in any case. What is it, something like F# standard with extra high A, low B (x2) and low F# (x2) strings? I wonder why he doubles up the low strings with slightly different gauges. I guess the offsets on the lower strings have something to do with it.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 23, 2009)

it seems like it&#180;s just to get a unison-sounding thick sound, really. makes sense though, tuning two strings the same and playing them together sounds different than just using one string.

reading the tuning confuses the hell out of me though


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## Daemoniac (Feb 23, 2009)

THat tuning is insanely awesome  Do want to try...


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## somn (Feb 23, 2009)

Thank for the info man but was that a massive f/r tho or what?


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 24, 2009)

what is f/r? 

using the whole words works better 

a little backstory: when someone posted the video of him with the 11 string, i got curious, found him on myspace, and sent him a message politely asking him about the instruments. the post is the reply i got back yesterday.


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## ILdÐÆMcº³ (Feb 24, 2009)

That is a huge range... I'm a little jealous.


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## vansinn (Feb 24, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> it seems like it´s just to get a unison-sounding thick sound, really. makes sense though, tuning two strings the same and playing them together sounds different than just using one string.
> 
> reading the tuning confuses the hell out of me though



Haha, yeah, I have it the same way with some of those fun tunings posted in here 
Anyways, notice that Rob's equally tuned strings differ slightly in gauge?
My guess is that, when pressed down, the thinned one will go ever so slightly off pitch because of this, thus creating a more shimmering sound on the high's and a more dense tone on the lows. Kinda like a slow low-level chorus'd tone. It's a though, FWIW..


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## Variant (Feb 24, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> it seems like it´s just to get a unison-sounding thick sound, really. makes sense though, tuning two strings the same and playing them together sounds different than just using one string.
> 
> reading the tuning confuses the hell out of me though



Interesting...  I wonder why he doesn't just close-couple (like on a double-course instrument) the strings to keep the fretboard as narrow as possible.  Me, I just multi-track the shit out of the guitar tracks the thicken up the sound.


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## Sroth Saraiel (Feb 24, 2009)

That tunning is insane!


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## Apophis (Feb 24, 2009)

thanks for info, interesting stuff


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## Spondus (Feb 26, 2009)

weirdly enough, i found a xylophone in work on saturday with an H, confused the hell out of me


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## somn (Feb 26, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> what is f/r?
> 
> using the whole words works better
> 
> a little backstory: when someone posted the video of him with the 11 string, i got curious, found him on myspace, and sent him a message politely asking him about the instruments. the post is the reply i got back yesterday.



Sorry about that my iPod corrects me as "Joyce rose" I kent floyed rose.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 27, 2009)

you "kent" floyd rose?

i can NOT answer that without further information on what that means!

naw, just messing 

i don&#180;t think it is, but it might as well be... i can&#180;t imagine where the hell he would get one though


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 28, 2009)

Wow...interesting approach!


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## PirateMetalTroy (Feb 28, 2009)

vansinn said:


> Haha, yeah, I have it the same way with some of those fun tunings posted in here
> Anyways, notice that Rob's equally tuned strings differ slightly in gauge?
> My guess is that, when pressed down, the thinned one will go ever so slightly off pitch because of this, thus creating a more shimmering sound on the high's and a more dense tone on the lows. Kinda like a slow low-level chorus'd tone. It's a though, FWIW..



You may also notice, his low 4 strings have that crazy extended fret thing giong on. Longer scale = more tension. So the tonality of the notes will change a lot right there. Not to mention the fact that with the frets being offset it's not simply a matter of pressing down the same fret on 2 strings.

Here's a screenshot from the vid for reference.







Notice how each of the low 4 strings is a different scale. Basically they're each one fret longer than the last, but still tuned in unison. I can see why he did it. there's not much place left to go after F#1 

I always love fucking around with 3 or 4 string unison while i restring my guitars. 

Very cool stuff.


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## vansinn (Feb 28, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification. Maybe if I'd actually _looked_ at the instrument I'd noticed the low strings layout  Time to go study his style in the vid..


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 1, 2009)

Interesting concept...reminds me of the fretboard extenders on those old Kubicki basses.


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## Scarpie (Mar 1, 2009)

after some tutoring on the subject, i realize i'm a dumbass who spoke faster than thought.


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 1, 2009)

Scarpie said:


> um he has mutliscaled this guitar without fanning frets???? that can't possibly intonate properly!!! it's looks awesome but strings 8-11 have longer scales without proper scale alignment from nut to 12th fret, and 12th fret to bridge. it was a brave attempt to experiment with extended range but i fail to see how any thought was put into the low end register of this guitar.



it´s an old concept actually, having been used in classic guitars with many strings, and for extending the strings in a double bass.

it does intonate on those strings, because their scales are longer.


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 1, 2009)

PirateMetalTroy said:


> I always love fucking around with 3 or 4 string unison while i restring my guitars.
> 
> Very cool stuff.



Same here...DADAAD and CGCGCC are both great for big drony riffs.


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## Adam (Mar 1, 2009)

MF_Kitten said:


> it´s an old concept actually, having been used in classic guitars with many strings, and for extending the strings in a double bass.
> 
> it does intonate on those strings, because their scales are longer.


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## MF_Kitten (Mar 1, 2009)

and tadaah! the classic 11-string guitar! 

so it&#180;s not an unusual instrument in itself, really, it&#180;s just an unusual execution with an unusual use


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## Scarpie (Mar 1, 2009)

nice pic. very interesting indeed concept.


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## PirateMetalTroy (Mar 1, 2009)

Adam said:


>



HA! That's guz's guitar! Looks like he took that exact idea, made it solid body, put a giant floyd and a locking system on it, then a huge pickup.


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## Alekke (Mar 1, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> It had something to do with some sloppy cursive, I think, which would explain why h and b would look similar. There's no reason that people should still be calling it H, though.



in european schools H is what B is in america, and B in europe is A#.

So in europe you'll have C(C#) D(D#) E F(F#) G(G#) A(*B*) H C,
and in america C(C#) D(D#) E F(F#) G(G#) A(*A#*) B C

theres no A# in europe, and theres no H in america.
But as every tuner in the world is tuning by american scale, I accept that as default.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Mar 1, 2009)

That is such a beast tuning.


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## cddragon (Mar 1, 2009)

Most INSANE and strange tuning I've ever seen  



Alekke said:


> in european schools H is what B is in america, and B in europe is A#.
> 
> So in europe you'll have C(C#) D(D#) E F(F#) G(G#) A(*B*) H C,
> and in america C(C#) D(D#) E F(F#) G(G#) A(*A#*) B C
> ...



Unfortunately, because of some dumbasses back then in the history, even music cannot be fully international language.  I prefer using the american notation as it's easier understandable and as people mentioned before makes more sense - it's just more linear ...


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 2, 2009)

Same here. I've never heard of anyone actually using the European method in practice.


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## Ishan (Mar 2, 2009)

Over here we use the old Italian notation (Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do), so go figure


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## AeonSolus (Mar 2, 2009)

Ishan said:


> Over here we use the old Italian notation (Do Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Do), so go figure



 it's the same way in spanish!, this is the backstory of it.
Guido De Arezzo who's considered the father of music took the inspiration from an ode to John the Baptist.
[FONT=Lucida Handwriting, Cursive]
[/FONT][FONT=Lucida Handwriting, Cursive]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]*Ut* queant laxis [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]*Re* sonare fibris [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]*Mi*ra gestorum [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]*Fa*muli torum [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]*Sol*ve polluti [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]*La*bii reatum [/FONT]
[FONT=Tahoma,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]*S*ancte *I*ohannes [/FONT]

With the centuries Ut was changed to Do. For those who don't know:

Do = C
Re = D
Mi = E
Fa = F
La = A
Sol = G
Si = B...or H...Meh Whatever

Anyway,i was always curious about how the hell did he tune that up thanks for all the info man 

You also could ask politely again and do an interview for the community?


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## distressed_romeo (Mar 2, 2009)

An interview would rule, as I'm sure he'd have plenty of interesting stuff to contribute!


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## somn (Mar 3, 2009)

distressed_romeo said:


> An interview would rule, as I'm sure he'd have plenty of interesting stuff to contribute!




I second this an interview would rock


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## Metal Ken (Mar 3, 2009)

AeonSolus said:


> Do = C
> Re = D
> Mi = E
> Fa = F
> ...



I remember reading that those notes can also represent scale degrees instead of actual notes, like Do in the key of DDD# major becomes D# instead of C, etc. Which just makes it more confusing. so, to the Do Re Mi, i say fuck it!


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## phaeded0ut (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks (to everyone who posted such) for the historical information! Not sure I'd be able to use my left hand to reach those extended frets beyond the nut on the higher pitched strings. Two-hand tapping on his instrument, maybe?


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## ixlramp (Sep 7, 2009)

Strange tuning, the relative tuning across a full width fret is even weirder:

Intervals in semitones low to high:
-1 4 -1 5 5 5 5 4 5 3


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## Acre (Sep 11, 2009)

The string gauges are so weird. He uses thicker strings for the F1# and B1 strings which have longer scale lengths than the others at the same pitch and he uses standard strings with the higher notes even though he's tuned them a whole step up! The tension must be all over the place.


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