# Need clarity out of a low A Flat



## Entonem (Feb 12, 2008)

Hey everyone, this is my first post on Seven String. My name is Tom and I play bass for the band Periphery. Some of you may of heard of us, I know Misha/Bulb posts on here regularly. I have the sound I want after years of fine tuning but when It comes to the low B string (especially when its tuned down) I just get a lot of muddiness and none of the crisp clarity of the E string. I play a Dingwall Afterburner I and the low B is a 37 inch scale length. I use a sans amp bass driver a thunderfunk and an epifani 410 Does anyone have any idea how I can clean up the low B and get it to have a closer response to the E string. I think that I am going to get a really low gauge string and hope that brings out the harmonics and clarity I am going for. Any Ideas?

Entonem

oh and by the way, what in gods name is this supposed to be


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## Apophis (Feb 12, 2008)

first of all 

and give us gauges of strings you're using now


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## m3ta1head (Feb 12, 2008)

Entonem said:


> oh and by the way, what in gods name is this supposed to be



a man pleasuring himself 

welcome to the forums, d00d. I'd recommend trying a heavier gauge string.


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## Entonem (Feb 12, 2008)

Strings are the gauge that were on when I bought the bass but I think 125 maybe. I have tried putting heavier strings on in the past but all it resulted in was a big fat mushy note with none of the clarity or crispness I was going for.

Entonem


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## m3ta1head (Feb 12, 2008)

Maybe it's the 10" speakers in that epifani that aren't handling the low notes well? Have you tried a 2x15 cab?


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## Ishan (Feb 12, 2008)

The bigger the string, the fatter the tone. So I'd suggest you try even lighter string gauge as it'll be snappier and clearer. And also, try without the bass driver as it's known to muddy up the sound (at least with some amp/speaker combination)


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## bulb (Feb 12, 2008)

m3ta1head said:


> Maybe it's the 10" speakers in that epifani that aren't handling the low notes well? Have you tried a 2x15 cab?



its not the cab thats the problem, on several different setups the problem is exactly the same, its something with the bass or the setup or the gauge really


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## Entonem (Feb 12, 2008)

The epifani handles the low notes pretty well. If we get to the point where one day we have roadies I am getting the Bergantino 2x15. For now my cab weighs 48 pounds and I love it. 

Entonem


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## Apophis (Feb 12, 2008)

with that 37" scale is really weird


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## All_¥our_Bass (Feb 14, 2008)

Try raising the height of the low B string, when you use bigger guages.


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## Ojinomoto (Feb 14, 2008)

Another bass player on the forum, awesome!

Here's a question: ave you ever tried changing your EQ around? Granted, your tone will change but one has to give in order to get.  
I use a 35 in scale bass and when turning down I put more mids in and take out the real lows, it clears it up more.
What does your EQ look like?


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## bostjan (Feb 14, 2008)

How is your truss rod set? String height is pretty important on a bass with deeper tones, as the strings tend to have large displacements.

Does the tone sound mushy on fretted notes as bad as it does on open strings or lower frets?

A thinner string will offer more crisp tone as long as the tension doesn't get below 70% of optimum, so that might be a place to try after making sure the string isn't buzzing on the frets.

At 26 Hz, you're not really pushing into too low of a frequency for a bass amp to handle, but the wavelength in air is about 13 meters (43 feet), so room acoustics are going to have some severe effects on the band's overall tone.


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## Durero (Feb 15, 2008)

Tom have you ever tried using a low B string with a piano-style exposed core wire resting on the bridge saddle? I know S.I.T. strings makes them. I've just recently re-strung my 8-string Chapman StickBass with the heaviest strings I could find locally and I've found that the strings which have the full wrap resting on the bridge saddles sound like absolute crap compared to the same gage with just the core wire resting on the saddle and the wrap wires starting just before the string goes over the bridge.

I'm amazed what a difference this makes in the clarity of the lowest notes - like night & day.

Jaquo-III-X uses this kind of string, as well as Knuckle-Head basses and they're both using ultra-low "sub-contra" tunings.


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## ibznorange (Feb 17, 2008)

what kinda strings are on there. have you tried putting ultrabrights on it? that helps my bass quite a bit.
also, have you messed with an external eq on it at all?


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## Variant (Feb 17, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> what kinda strings are on there. have you tried putting ultrabrights on it? that helps my bass quite a bit.
> also, have you messed with an external eq on it at all?



I'd agree with both of the above posts... a brighter steel over a nickel plated steel will help as will an exposed/taper core with the bigger gauges of strings. How you EQ will depend largely on the bass, pickups, and equipment that you use... for instance, for my low E0 and A0 string to sound good I use no mids at all, whereas Ojinomoto's setup obviously favors more mids and less lows.


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## newamerikangospel (Feb 18, 2008)

I have always been happy with my tone (tuned to A#/Bb) with running the bass with as little bass as possible (if you have active eq, maybe 50%/60%), and the bass preamp pushing the brighter side as well, then let the amp move the low end.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Feb 19, 2008)

Rolling off some of the lows helps SOOOO MUCH. It's not even funny how much it can clear stuff up. Of course I'm kinda the extreme end of this idea, my bass doesn't sound like a bass (for the most part) it has more of a sub guitar sound (like meshuggah or anyone else using that range for heavyness/brutality).

My bass' low D is a 95 and very soon thats going to be a 90.
That same 95 has also been used as a low B/Bb/A on ocassion.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 20, 2008)

so yeah, what these guys all say: stainless steel strings, with exposed core right over the saddles, lower the bass coming from the instrument itself, and then i´ll have to agree alot with thinner strings as well...

a .125 is good for a B on a 34" scale bass... tuned to B on a 37" scale, i can imagine it wold mush up... but when you tune it to Ab, what´s the tension and feel like?


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## Shannon (Feb 20, 2008)

Other suggestions to consider in addition to the ones above.

1) S.I.T. does make up to a 195 gauge string. Perhaps contact them.
2) Knuckle Basses (the owner post here) makes up to a 215 gauge string for his 39.5" bass that are tuned an octave BELOW E. I've tried 2 of these basses with this tuning & it was amazing clear. YOu can contact them as well. With a 37" Dingwall, you could get some good results with these.
3) I've heard on numerous occasions from sub-contra bassists that the Accugroove El Whappo cab is unrivaled in handling these sub frequencies.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 20, 2008)

well, he´s not tuning further down than Ab, so i don´t think he needs anything thicker really. he said in there somewhere, that he already tried going bigger, and it went mushy and muddy.

i would really fancy me some of that knuckle bass action myself though... mmmm...

where do you get strings that long through, you do need to custom order, right?


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## Jauqo III-X (Feb 20, 2008)

I have a 6 string Dingwall and I use SIT strings on it and the basses overall tonal out put is very clear even down the open low B. Your pickups may be to low(to far away from the strings), your EQ settings may have a little to much bass and mid on,etc. I really can't see you having problems with your Low B string. Overall the Dingwall basses are some of the best and clearest sounding basses on the market.

And I play the Dingwall through 10's.


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## Ojinomoto (Feb 20, 2008)

What advantage does having a longer scale bass have?


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## bostjan (Feb 20, 2008)

Longer scale = Clearer Harmonics and Higher Tension

but

Longer scale also = harder to find strings (since a lot of bass strings do not have enough slack for >36" scale)


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## Ojinomoto (Feb 20, 2008)

So if using lower tunings/extended range, longer scales help "even out" the feel, eg. Meshuggah and their 31" scale?

Oh and Entonem, is there a big difference to the fanned fret, overall sound than regular-fretted basses?


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## Crucified (Feb 20, 2008)

dingwalls are crazy good. try a different brand of string. i play a dark lord at f# through a mesa/ampeg setup with 8 10's its not the amp being unable to reproduce the sound i bet. its just hard in general to make something that low sound as good as higher clearer tunings.


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## Naren (Feb 20, 2008)

MF_Kitten said:


> where do you get strings that long through, you do need to custom order, right?



As Shannon said, the maker makes custom strings that are the right gauge and the right length.


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## MF_Kitten (Feb 23, 2008)

Naren said:


> As Shannon said, the maker makes custom strings that are the right gauge and the right length.



oh, sweet 



Jauo III-X said:


> I have a 6 string Dingwall and I use SIT strings on it and the basses overall tonal out put is very clear even down the open low B. Your pickups may be to low(to far away from the strings), your EQ settings may have a little to much bass and mid on,etc. I really can't see you having problems with your Low B string. Overall the Dingwall basses are some of the best and clearest sounding basses on the market.
> 
> And I play the Dingwall through 10's.



i couldn´t find this info online, and i didn´t know where to look, so i´m asking you directly: the bass you´ve got tuned to sub-contra notes, with the low C#, what scale is that bass?


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