# Muscle building diet on the cheap?



## vejichan (May 1, 2017)

What are healthy meals when you eat out or make at home on the cheap?
Basically i can't cook and poor and need meal plans.
thanks


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## Ebony (May 1, 2017)

When you eat out on the cheap? Not much... 
When you make at home on the cheap? LOADS!

If you're completely useless in the kitchen, I advice checking videos on youtube on how to do basics like boiling, frying, and seasoning. 
Avoid the microwave at all cost!!! It destroys the food.
Avoid vegetable oils, use butter, lard or other saturated fats when cooking your food.

Making simple things that lasts for days and can be mixed is usually a good way to attack it. 

For example, boiled potatoes are healthy and keep in the fridge for days so you can just boil a full pot, put them in the fridge after they've cooled down and reheat in the pot or pan when needed. The same goes for carrots, broccoli, cabbage, fried onions and pretty much any vegetable. 

As for prices on things that breathe, I may not be qualified to answer as I'm not too familiar with U.S prices. But I assume canned tuna, mackerel, organic eggs and pork chops are cheap there too. 

As for sauces, reduced heavy cream with salt, small amounts of ketchup, low-sugar dressings, mayo and home-made gravy is the way to go. 


Examples of dishes-

- Boiled potatoes+boiled preferred vegetable+a fried pork chop. Simple and cheap.

- Canned tuna in tomato sauce+ezekiel bread. Simple and cheap.

- Fried organic eggs+bacon+sliced avocado. Simple and medium priced.

- Fried Chicken drumsticks+chopped salad+tomato+caesar dressing. Simple and cheap.


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## AxeHappy (May 1, 2017)

Food microwaved without water actually preserves nutrition best off all ways of cooking and in some cases actually makes it easier to process and get the nutrients than raw. 

Organic is a complete ....ing scam so skip organic and save a ton of money to get food that is identical in nutrition. 

For cheap healthy food, frozen vegetables (often better nutrient profiles than fresh food due to flash freezing) and whatever meat happens to be on sale. Ground beef, chicken, whatever. Throw it in a frying pan and cook. Potatoes or Rice are both super easy to cook for your carbs and you're good to go.


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## domsch1988 (May 2, 2017)

I started prepping my meals for work lately. Pretty easy:
On Sundays i cook around 1kg (dry) of brown rice. Fill it in 5 pots, add deep fried vegetables of taste (i vary between asian and broccoli). If you want you can cook some chicken breast (or get deep fried ones). All together in a container. This goes in the freezer.
Around 5&#8364; of ingredients for 5 days of meals. I add some barbecue sauce or ketchup if i feel like it. For some this might be monotonous, but it's cheap, next to no work and keeps me from buying burger king for meals.


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## El Caco (May 2, 2017)

AxeHappy said:


> Food microwaved without water actually preserves nutrition best off all ways of cooking and in some cases actually makes it easier to process and get the nutrients than raw.
> 
> Organic is a complete ....ing scam so skip organic and save a ton of money to get food that is identical in nutrition.
> 
> For cheap healthy food, frozen vegetables (often better nutrient profiles than fresh food due to flash freezing) and whatever meat happens to be on sale. Ground beef, chicken, whatever. Throw it in a frying pan and cook. Potatoes or Rice are both super easy to cook for your carbs and you're good to go.



How is organic a scam?

It isn't a scam here that's for sure.


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## El Caco (May 2, 2017)

vejichan said:


> What are healthy meals when you eat out or make at home on the cheap?
> Basically i can't cook and poor and need meal plans.
> thanks



How poor? What type of eating plan are you trying to follow? What are your goals, what do you want to look like?


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## AxeHappy (May 2, 2017)

El Caco said:


> How is organic a scam?
> 
> It isn't a scam here that's for sure.



I will assume you are too lazy too look up any of the science or facts on organic food so instead I will look you to this video that lays things out pretty well for people interested in lifting big:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fMtFTbb_-o


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## CapnForsaggio (May 2, 2017)

El Caco said:


> How is organic a scam?
> 
> It isn't a scam here that's for sure.



"Organic" food can be sprayed with more than 10x the volume of chemicals to achieve a crop. So long as the chemicals are not on the banned list for organic farming.

Would you rather consume a vegetable with a small amount of a TESTED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION Monsanto chemical on it? 

Or would you rather consume a vegetable that has been SOAKED in chemicals that the FDA says are ok? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_the_Food_and_Drug_Administration

There are many arguments for and against organics. Those arguments do not include reducing your exposure to chemicals. In many cases, this exposure is much worse.


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## El Caco (May 3, 2017)

AxeHappy said:


> I will assume you are too lazy too look up any of the science or facts on organic food so instead I will look you to this video that lays things out pretty well for people interested in lifting big:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fMtFTbb_-o



I watched the video. It should go without saying that you can't believe everything you see on Youtube, that video contains a fair chunk of crap in my opinion. It did list the obvious benefits to true organic foods, I think some of the cons were straight up talking out of his rear end. Stuff like how eating organic would result in requiring the entire world to be farmed is not just rubbish, it is the opposite of the case. If all farming was replaced with the most modern natural practices it would reduce the land required. Even early on, when he talks about whole foods, processed foods labelled organic are not really relevant to the conversation beyond stating the obvious that if we are worried about our health then whole foods are superior to processed foods. So the question then becomes what is preferable, natural or modern? When he talked about the risk of bacteria, more crap. My beef order next week has been ordered directly from the farm, their hormone and antibiotic free cows go directly to a MSA Abattoir which is the highest standard we can find in our supermarkets, next they are butchered by a qualified butcher and cryovac seal my cuts and put them in a refrigerated truck and deliver them directly to my house for about 1/3 the price of non organic meat from the supermarket. All this is the highest industry standard we have in Australia, the meat doesn't sit exposed in a butcher shelf so the risk of bacteria is lower. The cows I eat are farmed using best practice, they are not force fed, they have a choice of high quality natural hormone and pesticide free food sources. The actual standard they meet is a new standard that exceeds the various organic standards. We have local farmers who have developed their own Natural standards because of the dissatisfaction with some of the organic standards. The milk and cream I buy meets the Natural Farms standard which is their own standard. This standard is similar to my meat, it is the highest standard we have. Before switching to this milk I could not tolerate milk. This milk is available in supermarkets although I get it cheaper from my butcher. The meat I eat is the highest standard available and it is comparable in price to cheap cuts from the supermarket. 



CapnForsaggio said:


> "Organic" food can be sprayed with more than 10x the volume of chemicals to achieve a crop. So long as the chemicals are not on the banned list for organic farming.
> 
> Would you rather consume a vegetable with a small amount of a TESTED FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION Monsanto chemical on it?
> 
> ...



Good thing I don't live in the US. Of course there are a variety of foods labelled organic, we have a variety of organic certifications here and the best are the ones that are not labelled organic but actually called Natural, this standard was brought about to deal with the issues of the poor organic certifications. However when I talk about organic foods I am referring to the healthiest natural options that are primarily whole foods. You shouldn't need to do research to understand this progression. Natural whole foods > non natural farmed whole foods > natural processed foods > other processed foods. Only a fool would buy something labelled organic without reading the label. I eat non organic foods but my preference goes to eating the healthiest foods I can afford to eat. 

That said I also like my taste buds so when I eat something like chocolate which I sometimes treat myself to, I eat chocolate I think tastes good. I live in the real world, I know when they say I shouldn't use a Thoriated tungsten because of the radioactive material risk that the risk is lower than many of the natural elements I breath each day and I'm not about to stop going to the beach. That said I prefer Lanthanated Tungstens but it has nothing to do with health risks. I've lived a reckless life and did not look after my health until recently. I did not think I'd live this long and now that I have I want to live a lot longer so I started taking my health more seriously. For me this includes making the best food choices I can and constantly learning about health. My diet isn't restrictive, I pick the healthiest options where I can but I still eat processed foods that might be considered by some to be unhealthy and I do IF daily. I no longer drink alcohol or smoke. I feel great and even though I'm 40 I'm stronger than I have ever been in my life.

I don't pretend to know everything there is to know about food and health but one thing I have noticed is there are a lot of people who claim to be experts talking rubbish. Every Youtube guru I have watched has talked crap at times, some more than others but they all present their crap as if it is fact. And you see these guys claiming science all the time, you look up that science they are referring to and it is more broscience than broscience.

What I do believe though is flat out saying organic is a scam is misleading. Pointing out the known problems with the organic industry is fair. Pointing out that whole foods and fresh foods are preferable to processed foods should be obvious. But the way organic foods are being presented here a person might believe that they should just stick to cheap whole foods and might not be aware that the fruit they buy could have been in storage for a year before being force ripened. They are probably completely unaware of hormone mimicking compounds in their foods and probably have no idea what is wrong with the food industry and why we need better natural options.

I can't see how a comment as blunt and misleading as organic is a scam is the most relevant response to the OP's question. I think saying you don't need to spend a fortune to put on muscle is more relevant. Perhaps teaching him how to manipulate carbs and limiting work to minimise his metabolism to make it cheaper to stay in a minimal caloric surplus for steady lean bulking would be a better path. Perhaps letting him know straight away about the importance of eating at least the minimum requirement of healthy fats in building muscle and reassuring him by letting him know that during the lean bulking phase you do not need ridiculously high protein levels would be a better option. Then you could point him to the sticky threads on BB so he can learn about IIFYM and see how little protein he actually needs and then if you caution him to not eat too much but also not too little, he will be cruising.

Of course I'd start off by letting him know about the advantage of staying under 15% body fat at all times and how it is easier to put on muscle when we are below 12% body fat and how it is easier to cut when we don't allow ourselves to put on excessive amounts of bodyfat. And how if he has high bodyfat then it may be preferable to do a cut first. Then if he needed to do a cut first I'd remind him how important it is to have slightly higher protein intake during cutting and how important resistance exercise is to cutting and again I'd remind him that by reducing work by not doing additional cardio will allow him to eat less keeping his diet less expensive. Then I would make sure he knows to use Cronometer to track his nutrients and finally I'd tell him to start researching and learning about health and especially learning how to understand what your body is telling you when you get dizzy or have cramps and how to read your urine so you can easily identify when you need to eat more salt or potassium or drink more water because the RDA should not be the be all and end all.

That's why I asked him the questions I asked because the answers would allow me to be more focused with the most important information for him now. But if you guys think the best information to give him is organic is a scam what do i really know, we're all just random people on the internet.


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## asfeir (May 3, 2017)

I'd say eat chicken, eggs, and brocoli every day. Turkey is also good. Canned tuna. always try to add a little bit of carbs with your protein. This shouldn't break the bank.


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## domsch1988 (May 3, 2017)

asfeir said:


> I'd say eat chicken, eggs, and brocoli every day. Turkey is also good. Canned tuna. always try to add a little bit of carbs with your protein. This shouldn't break the bank.



If you care about decent quality food (decent, not locally sourced from a farm. Just decent) this gets expensive fast  In my 100% Paleo phases i eat up to 10 Eggs a day. Those alone add up to around 50 a month. Chicken Breast isn't the most expensive meat, but heaps more expensive than good carbs.
On a budget you should focus on getting the 2g of kg body weight of protein (more doesn't help anyways) and get the rest of your calories through carbs. Fats are important, but aren't needed in such high quantity. Focus on getting good fats in (tuna is good but expensive. Nuts are a great source, and using a decent olive oil too).
Brocoli is a great vegetable. I like it a lot but even i get fed up with it after a week. Switching up vegetables isn't more or less expensive than brocoli. Focus on deep fried stuff and you're good to go


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## El Caco (May 3, 2017)

It is still important to get 1g of fat per kg of body weight per day. You can actually get away with a lot less Protien when you are bulking but need high levels when cutting. You can actually eat even less Protein if you get Leucine from BCAA supplementation but I don't think that would work out cheaper. The other thing to keep in mind is a low carb paleo type of diet requires way more calories to be consumed. Most people don't realise this but the whole calories in calories out thing is effected by the types of food you eat. If I go on a Larry Scott, Vince Gironda type of Paleo like diet my maintenance calories are about 1000 higher than when I include breads, oats and other processed carbs. I find Paleo diets boring and they work out far more expensive than the much easier and non restrictive IIFYM method. FWIW when I was eating low carb high fat and was sitting on the lounge every day with only 3 full body workout per week I was cutting at 3300 calories. This was really expensive and it meant I was eating all day which was really annoying. On IIFYM I can cut at 2300 calories which means I can start eating after lunch and don't have to think about food at all because 2300 calories is really easy to eat when you eat carbs.

If you want to learn why calorie requirements are effected by the food types we eat you'll need to learn about the hormonal response to different food types but it is also important to understand that with certain foods over eating doesn't necessarily mean our body will use it all for food, there is limits to how much our body can actually process. That said the process of digesting some foods is actually slow so if you eat a lot of meat you will not realise the full effects today as you will still be digesting it tomorrow. Then you have things like food allergies. If a food sends you to the toilet and empties you the result is similar to sticking fingers down your throat.


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## Ebony (May 3, 2017)

El Caco said:


> Pointing out the known problems with the organic industry is fair. Pointing out that whole foods and fresh foods are preferable to processed foods should be obvious. But the way organic foods are being presented here a person might believe that they should just stick to cheap whole foods and might not be aware that the fruit they buy could have been in storage for a year before being force ripened. They are probably completely unaware of hormone mimicking compounds in their foods and probably have no idea what is wrong with the food industry and why we need better natural options.
> 
> I can't see how a comment as blunt and misleading as organic is a scam is the most relevant response to the OP's question.


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## domsch1988 (May 3, 2017)

El Caco said:


> It is still important to get 1g of fat per kg of body weight per day. You can actually get away with a lot less Protien when you are bulking but need high levels when cutting. You can actually eat even less Protein if you get Leucine from BCAA supplementation but I don't think that would work out cheaper. The other thing to keep in mind is a low carb paleo type of diet requires way more calories to be consumed. Most people don't realise this but the whole calories in calories out thing is effected by the types of food you eat. If I go on a Larry Scott, Vince Gironda type of Paleo like diet my maintenance calories are about 1000 higher than when I include breads, oats and other processed carbs. I find Paleo diets boring and they work out far more expensive than the much easier and non restrictive IIFYM method. FWIW when I was eating low carb high fat and was sitting on the lounge every day with only 3 full body workout per week I was cutting at 3300 calories. This was really expensive and it meant I was eating all day which was really annoying. On IIFYM I can cut at 2300 calories which means I can start eating after lunch and don't have to think about food at all because 2300 calories is really easy to eat when you eat carbs.
> 
> If you want to learn why calorie requirements are effected by the food types we eat you'll need to learn about the hormonal response to different food types but it is also important to understand that with certain foods over eating doesn't necessarily mean our body will use it all for food, there is limits to how much our body can actually process. That said the process of digesting some foods is actually slow so if you eat a lot of meat you will not realise the full effects today as you will still be digesting it tomorrow. Then you have things like food allergies. If a food sends you to the toilet and empties you the result is similar to sticking fingers down your throat.


I really don't want to get into specific dieting goals and such. But no matter what the hell you eat, calories are calories. Your body doesn't care where they come from. Telling me that on a paleo diet you need higher caloric intake for maintenance is bullsh*t. Your body does process different macro nutrients differently. So eating the same amount of calories from High fiber carbs is much more difficult than by a high fat diet. None the less, in the end of the day it's about the calories you eat, no matter where they come from.
And don't get me started on IIFYM. That's the biggest cr*p anyone has ever put to public. Yes, you can cut or bulk with IIFYM. But your daily intake should consist of more than just your macro nutrients. Eating fast food all day because it fits your macros does not make it a healthy diet. Getting in your Vitamins and micro nutrients is essential to a healthy life! Especially when you're doing any kind of demanding sport (such as weight lifting).

In the end, if it works for you, fine. I'm a big fan of "Do what ever works for you". But this does not change basic physical and medical facts.


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## AxeHappy (May 3, 2017)

El Caco said:


> I watched the video. It should go without saying that you can't believe everything you see on Youtube, that video contains a fair chunk of crap in my opinion.



You think Dr. Mike Israetel is just some random dude on Youtube? Hats off to you then. I will stick to getting my information from peer reviewed studies and you can stick to getting yours from wherever it is you get it from. 

Tons of published peer reviewed evidence shows no benefit to eating Organic. I can't rightfully comment on Australian specific practices that are different from Organic but which you are choosing to call Organic. And I'm just going to ignore the whole natural fallacy altogether. 

However, I fear that continuing on this discussion would further derail the thread so if you wish to continue discussing perhaps we should move to PMs? Or just drop it I suppose as you seem pretty resistant to any evidence that disagrees with your preconceptions. 



> I can't see how a comment as blunt and misleading as organic is a scam is the most relevant response to the OP's question.



It was a direct response to someone saying the OP, who asked for *CHEAP* ways to eat and build muscle, saying that he should go for Organic food. Organic Food provides no health or nutritional benefit and costs twice as much or more than non-Organic food does. Telling someone looking for cheap ways to eat a lot of quality food to go Organic is a straight up dick move. 




> I really don't want to get into specific dieting goals and such. But no matter what the hell you eat, calories are calories. Your body doesn't care where they come from. Telling me that on a paleo diet you need higher caloric intake for maintenance is bullsh*t. Your body does process different macro nutrients differently. So eating the same amount of calories from High fiber carbs is much more difficult than by a high fat diet. None the less, in the end of the day it's about the calories you eat, no matter where they come from.
> And don't get me started on IIFYM. That's the biggest cr*p anyone has ever put to public. Yes, you can cut or bulk with IIFYM. But your daily intake should consist of more than just your macro nutrients. Eating fast food all day because it fits your macros does not make it a healthy diet. Getting in your Vitamins and micro nutrients is essential to a healthy life! Especially when you're doing any kind of demanding sport (such as weight lifting).
> 
> In the end, if it works for you, fine. I'm a big fan of "Do what ever works for you". But this does not change basic physical and medical facts.





Eric Helms, one of the original guys in the flexible dieting movement, will tell you that IIFYM is still a restrictive dieting mindset, merely different than traditional or body builder style clean eating. It shifts the obsession from food choices to macros but has the same all or nothing and YOU MUST DO THIS mindset.

Except IIFYM is even worse as it doesn't have any thing that would suggest you must actually eat food that will help maintain your health. The founding concept is that your body can't tell the difference between a carb from a brownie and a carb from a piece of broccoli (or whatever the example vegetable was). Which is true, but that doesn't really mean a ....ing thing.


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## KnightBrolaire (May 3, 2017)

vejichan said:


> What are healthy meals when you eat out or make at home on the cheap?
> Basically i can't cook and poor and need meal plans.
> thanks



can't cook and you're poor- First learn to cook, it'll save you some $$ and let you tailor your meals. There are no good premade options for getting healthy/swole.
Basically the poor man's way to get swole is canned tuna, beans and peanut butter. Tuna is high in protein, readily available nearly anywhere, same with beans or peanut butter. The tuna can be used in salads or wraps or sandwiches, you just have to be somewhat creative. The peanut butter is a good snack to help keep you full/add some extra protein to your diet. The beans (non-canned beans offer more flexibility in preparation) add protein, fiber and help keep you full. If you're not that hard up, try buying some chicken breasts and eating 2x a day with your side of beans/brown rice or a sweet potato. For bulking up, you want .8g-1g protein per kg of body weight. If you're trying to lose weight, eat more vegetables like broccoli or sweet potatoes along with a salad. Also drink more water, a big glass before a meal can help stop you from overeating.


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## Ebony (May 3, 2017)

AxeHappy said:


> It was a direct response to someone saying the OP, who asked for *CHEAP* ways to eat and build muscle, saying that he should go for Organic food. Organic Food provides no health or nutritional benefit and costs twice as much or more than non-Organic food does. Telling someone looking for cheap ways to eat a lot of quality food to go Organic is a straight up dick move.




I have no interest in getting into one of those worthless internet peeing contests, so for the sake of simplification I'll just say this:

You have an opinion on organic food, I have another. Listing evidence gets us nowhere, as my list of "facts and proof" is just as long and tedious as yours.
THE END!

But don't give me any bullsh*t about me being cruel for telling someone to spend their last dollar on organic food. I merely adviced him to buy organic eggs, as I'm aware of all the horrid sh*t they use when producing the cheapy eggs sold in America. I should possibly have been more specific and said "locally farmed, no-nonsense eggs without formaldehyde, shell oiling and large concentrations of arsenic". Such eggs, even though more expensive than regular eggs, are cheap compared to most meats. That is why I specifically adviced him to do so.


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## El Caco (May 3, 2017)

domsch1988 said:


> I really don't want to get into specific dieting goals and such. But no matter what the hell you eat, calories are calories. Your body doesn't care where they come from. Telling me that on a paleo diet you need higher caloric intake for maintenance is bullsh*t. Your body does process different macro nutrients differently. So eating the same amount of calories from High fiber carbs is much more difficult than by a high fat diet. None the less, in the end of the day it's about the calories you eat, no matter where they come from.
> And don't get me started on IIFYM. That's the biggest cr*p anyone has ever put to public. Yes, you can cut or bulk with IIFYM. But your daily intake should consist of more than just your macro nutrients. Eating fast food all day because it fits your macros does not make it a healthy diet. Getting in your Vitamins and micro nutrients is essential to a healthy life! Especially when you're doing any kind of demanding sport (such as weight lifting).
> 
> In the end, if it works for you, fine. I'm a big fan of "Do what ever works for you". But this does not change basic physical and medical facts.



Your reply stems from not understanding IIFYM. Perhaps you could check out the BB stickies as well. 

IIFYM is the simple principle that after you meet your minimum fat and protein requirements that as long as you are meeting your micronutrient needs you can almost eat anything you want and the only thing from that point that will dictate weight loss or weight gain is caloric surplus or deficit. That's why Cronometer is usually recommended because it tracks micronutrients.

Of course IIFYM is over simplified but it works so it is very good for people to start their journey with then as they learn about food and health they can tailor their eating plan and it will still fit IIFYM. There is a common misconception about IIFYM because people think it is somehow tied to percentage breakdowns of macros within a caloric limit like the 40/30/30 or similar, it isn't. IIFYM is the understanding that to maintain or build muscle your body needs minimum amounts of proteins and fats and that your calorie intake then dictates your fat loss or gain. It doesn't tell you how to eat healthy and that is why tracking micronutrients is recommended.

As for your claim that your body doesn't care where the calories come from. This is another thing that the industry gets wrong. But you can test this out for yourself if you don't believe me. If you currently eat processed foods and track your calories switch to the Larry Scott diet and see how much more you can eat. Alternatively if you are on a similar diet to the Larry Scott Diet then introduce breads and processed foods containing refined sugars into your diet and notice the fat gains if you do not cut your caloric intake.

The reason for this is because most people are unaware of three important things. Fat storage is not only dictated by caloric balance it is also effected by hormonal response to the foods we eat. The thermic effect of food, there is a lie being spread currently that all food has the same thermic effect and that eating frequency is not a factor. The first part of this myth can be busted with one word, fibre. Beyond fibre different foods have different thermic effect, Also eating frequency in regard to certain food types is also a factor because it can result in foods not being processed completely for energy. Just because you put those calories in your mouth doesn't mean they will become a part of the fat equation. The easiest way to understand this is if you binge and then get explosive diarrhoea so that all the food you ate is out of you before it is processed as energy. Things like meat usually sit in us a long time while they are being processed, if you eat more meat than you need and combine that meat with lots of fibre from green vegies but other than those vegies you don't eat carbs and your diet is a high fat high protein diet, the meat doesn't sit in you very long. Constipation is a well known issue with low carb diets so most have a fibre supplement recommendation. When eating on a modified Larry Scott style of diet I took no fibre supplementation and went to the toilet twice a day. I could not continue that diet because it costs so much because I eat so much more and it isn't fun. On the actual Larry Scott cutting diet you are supposed to restrict calories to no more than 2500 per day but I lost weight too quick and was losing more muscle than I comfortable with so I increased my calories to reduce the rate of weight loss and to my surprise that required me to eat almost 3500 calories. I came off that diet and switched to regular IIFYM and by incorporating processed foods into my diet I am able to eat less for the same result even though I am now more active. The only negative is my diet is now often micronutrient deficient but beggars can't be choosers. I do know how to do this on a budget though.


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## El Caco (May 3, 2017)

AxeHappy said:


> You think Dr. Mike Israetel is just some random dude on Youtube? Hats off to you then. I will stick to getting my information from peer reviewed studies and you can stick to getting yours from wherever it is you get it from.
> 
> Tons of published peer reviewed evidence shows no benefit to eating Organic. I can't rightfully comment on Australian specific practices that are different from Organic but which you are choosing to call Organic. And I'm just going to ignore the whole natural fallacy altogether.
> 
> ...



You are much better off doing your own research, if you did so you would be able to more easily identify when all these experts are talking crap and you would be able to identify the problems with some of the research they reference. What is clear to me is you don't read these peer reviewed studies yourself because if you did you would be shocked at how bad some of them are.

Something for you to consider. Why do the vast majority of people fail even though they follow expert advice? If we know all there is to know about health why do we need to do more research?

The fitness health industry in in what I'd describe as in it's teens. It isn't in it's infancy but it is still mostly clueless. There is so much research and learning still to be done. The body building part of it however is a bit more advanced and even with all the BS out there it is at a point where anyone can easily get results, all it takes is effort and time.

If you take the time to go on these experts channels and look through all their videos or if you dig deeper into their past written recommendations you can see where they discussed things in the past that they have now either changed their tune about or have been now proven wrong. Keep in mind it wasn't too long ago when all experts talked about meal frequency or other similar myths that were then backed by peer reviewed studies.

It is your choice if you want to ignore the natural eating thing but perhaps you should research fake foods and the things that are going into our foods first. Like fake rice made from plastic for an extreme example or the many other fake foods being sold as the real thing.

Natural foods is in its infancy but the movement is a response to some real bad stuff going on in the food industry. It's up to us to vote with our wallet and say we want healthy food. Only by supporting the best food choices can we make sure that these industries thrive and then once they become dominant prices will come down more. Free range foods are a great example as we have already seen Free range prices falling as free range foods become more popular. The same will happen with the natural food industry if we demand it.



AxeHappy said:


> Eric Helms, one of the original guys in the flexible dieting movement, will tell you that IIFYM is still a restrictive dieting mindset, merely different than traditional or body builder style clean eating. It shifts the obsession from food choices to macros but has the same all or nothing and YOU MUST DO THIS mindset.
> 
> Except IIFYM is even worse as it doesn't have any thing that would suggest you must actually eat food that will help maintain your health. The founding concept is that your body can't tell the difference between a carb from a brownie and a carb from a piece of broccoli (or whatever the example vegetable was). Which is true, but that doesn't really mean a ....ing thing.



Same as above, this is a misconception about IIFYM because people clearly are not up to date and think that when discussing IIFYM that they are referring to the old mindset that you should be on some 40/30/30 split or some split according to your body type. These are out of date recommendations that are not made anymore by people who know. It is easy to understand why this is the case when really popular Youtubers like Lex Fitness say it, he is someone who is guilty of still pushing a old school macro split and misusing the IIFYM phrase. I'm not an expert on how we got to this point but I believe it might have started with people like Emma Leigh starting their sticky threads on BB, she has her own site http://www.emma-leigh.com/basics/dieting-introduction/calculating-your-needs/ now we have got to the point of the tried and tested minimum requirements for protein and fat and anything else goes. Once you have reached your minimum protein and fat target for the day under IIFYM you can eat any macro you want to meet your caloric needs, how is that restrictive? Of course you should still eat a balanced diet if you want to be healthy so tracking micro nutrients is important.

So any expert who says that IIFYM is restrictive is not an expert on IIFYM.


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## El Caco (May 3, 2017)

KnightBrolaire said:


> can't cook and you're poor- First learn to cook, it'll save you some $$ and let you tailor your meals. There are no good premade options for getting healthy/swole.
> Basically the poor man's way to get swole is canned tuna, beans and peanut butter. Tuna is high in protein, readily available nearly anywhere, same with beans or peanut butter. The tuna can be used in salads or wraps or sandwiches, you just have to be somewhat creative. The peanut butter is a good snack to help keep you full/add some extra protein to your diet. The beans (non-canned beans offer more flexibility in preparation) add protein, fiber and help keep you full. If you're not that hard up, try buying some chicken breasts and eating 2x a day with your side of beans/brown rice or a sweet potato. For bulking up, you want .8g-1g protein per kg of body weight. If you're trying to lose weight, eat more vegetables like broccoli or sweet potatoes along with a salad. Also drink more water, a big glass before a meal can help stop you from overeating.



I'm mainly quoting this so it isn't buried. The other discussion is also important and I think still on topic but this is more directly on topic.

Beans are great and easy food. Don't discount them if you think you don't like them, there are lots of different ones and you should be able to find some you can enjoy. The great thing about beans is although the preparation is long it isn't time consuming and they can and should be prepared in bulk and then frozen for quick easy eating. Soak them, cook them then freeze them and reheat as needed. 

Peanut butter can be great at the end of a day when you haven't met your eating targets and don't feel like preparing food, it's an easy choice that helps you sleep if you have it on bread a couple of hours before bed.

I'm not sure how it is in the states but canned tuna is not really cheap over here, it seems cheap when you buy a can but when you work out the unit price you can better off financially buying wild caught frozen fish and cooking it yourself. It might be different over there.


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## KnightBrolaire (May 4, 2017)

El Caco said:


> I'm mainly quoting this so it isn't buried. The other discussion is also important and I think still on topic but this is more directly on topic.
> 
> Beans are great and easy food. Don't discount them if you think you don't like them, there are lots of different ones and you should be able to find some you can enjoy. The great thing about beans is although the preparation is long it isn't time consuming and they can and should be prepared in bulk and then frozen for quick easy eating. Soak them, cook them then freeze them and reheat as needed.
> 
> ...



canned tuna in the us is pretty cheap, though there is varying qualities (basically how many guatemalan children's fingers you want ground in with the meat, some or none). Canned fish can be had for anywhere from .50-1$ a can depending on the size of the can. Good albacore tuna costs like 2-3$ a can/bag. Frozen tuna is pretty pricy at around 7-10$ a pound iirc. Frozen chicken is like 2-3$ a pound. Basically it's the same here as there, buying frozen and in bulk is the cheapest (if you're dollar cost averaging) but for the OP's purpose canned goods are just fine.


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## domsch1988 (May 4, 2017)

I'm not going to quote all the things again.

Saying IIFYM is restrictive and works when you watch your micronutrients is 1. like saying You could swim from europe to america if you where a whale and 2. not what all the hip guys do.
By definition IIFYM ignores micronutrients because they are irrelevant to whom ever came up with that. It says so in the name. I won't argue it's restrictive. But eating nothing is too and will loose you fat too. That doesn't make it healthy.

But really, the fitness world is so full of opinions and people with no scientific credibility spewing pseudo truths around, that i don't care anymore. If you feel IIFYM lets you reach your goals, more power to you.

Second thing is, if you are really poor (in like, you struggle to come up with the money to eat), canned tuna is pretty bad bang for your buck. If it's about the protein, chicken and turkey deliver much better protein for your money. If it's about eating something that makes you full for long on the cheap and still leans you out a bit, you can't beat brown rice and frozen vegetables. I can get 1kg of good brown rice for .5&#8364;. And that is a minimum of 5 meals worth of eating. Adding about .5&#8364; of frozen vegetables per meal makes you really full for 1&#8364; here. Even with chicken you're at 2&#8364; max. A can of tuna cost nearly the same and won't make you full for half a day.


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## Winspear (May 6, 2017)

Whole milk, peanut butter, cheap whey protein (cheapest $/g of protein by far). There is plenty of detail in this thread and elsewhere but eat a healthy balanced diet and use these items to boost your calories and protein on the cheap and you really can't go wrong.


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