# A Jazz Beginner Method for a more (technically) advanced guitarist?



## UCBmetal (Apr 15, 2015)

I tend to lose inspiration both creatively and practice wise when I don't have something new to focus on, and I think with some work I could also transition my rock/neo-classical/sometimes blue notey playing to sit in with local jazz stuff if I had a better understanding of jazz theory and more practice with comping.

Does anyone know of a good crash course type of jazz instruction for someone with in-shape fingers but otherwise little capacity for jazz playing? I do have a solid theory background otherwise, and can relate a ii V I to classical theory, but that's where it stops for me. Thanks!


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## S-O (Apr 15, 2015)

Jamey Aebersold Jazz: Aebersold Play-A-Longs

Start with Volume 1, work your way through all of them!

A lot of getting started in Jazz playing is listening. Listen to great jazz players, just like we do shreddy guitar stuff. Listen and read along some lead sheets or find a real book and start to get an ear for the harmony of various Jazz genres.

After listening, learn a few tunes and try to improv over them after you get the head down.

Aebersold books usually have the first couple chapters explain some ideas and topics related to that particular volume.


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## SKoG (Apr 16, 2015)

Take a look at truefire.com and check their jazz courses. It's a tuition-based site, for $15 a month you get unlimited streaming of all content, but they have a free trial. They also have sample selections from many of their courses on their youtube channel. Pretty much every course is several hours long and has pdfs, .gp5 tabs and backing tracks where applicable.

They have courses from very beginner, to brush up on your basic triads and inversions in a jazz context, to more in-depth comping and chord soloing and lead soloing. Frank Vignola has a few courses in a progression for new jazz players that someone like you with the finger control and knowledge could go through in a few days and have the basics down. On the other hand he has a video about learning basically every inversion and another vid on chord melody if you want to go deeper.

Howard Morgan's "Fingerboard Breakthrough" is another great jazz-chord lesson where if you already have a grasp of the fretboard and intervals you can learn to build some great jazz chords and apply them.

Larry Carlton (one of the most prolific guitarists of all time) has five lessons there on his style, not to mention the other 50+ jazz lessons from other people that include subgenre specifics on bebop, gypsy, etc. 

If you like what you see there are also a lot of lessons for other genres apart from jazz (Robben Ford, Andy Timmons, Johnny Hiland, Stu Hamm, Rusty Cooley, etc.) to give you something to look at and keep you busy.


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## rahul_mukerji (Apr 16, 2015)

Rock House has a great video by Alex Skolnick [Testament] which is basically an introduction to Jazz for guitarists from a Rock / Metal background. I can't recommend it enough. I have it and its very very well taught.

*Link to Rock House Product*

Some of the books that I've used and found useful in learning the fundamentals of jazz are:


* Jazz Improv*
*Jody Fisher's Jazz Book*
*Hal Leonard Jazz Guitar*

And you can't go wrong with *TrueFire* like* SKoG* mentioned


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## wankerness (Apr 16, 2015)

This is a really good and advanced book, Pat Metheny himself swears by it:

Amazon.com: The Advancing Guitarist (9780881885897): Mick Goodrick: Books

It's not specifically "jazz" but it certainly helps with everything and jazz in particular since jazz music tends to be the genre that requires the most knowledge of this kind of information.


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## Aion (Apr 16, 2015)

Here's all of the theory, but it's less than half the battle. As others have said, the main trick is going about actually doing it.

Jazz really came to maturity with Bop, so I would suggest you start there. What the first Bop players started (and later musicians built on) was reharmonizng popular songs from the 1910's, 20's, and 30's. These are tin pan alley tunes and broadway tunes mostly. Good composers to look for are Irving Berlin, Jerome Kern, and Gershwin.

Bop would take these songs and speed them up and make them have two chords per measure. So take a song, memorize it and reharmonize it. Then figure out how to play it in all twelve keys. The main thing that holds people back here is the syncopated rhythms. If I may (and I will no matter what), my youtube channel has a suggestion for learning syncopations using Ted Reed's "Syncopation for the Modern Drummer." It can be viewed here:



or if you'd prefer a hard link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRSb2VdWoZ8

The eventual idea is to develop your rhythmic phrasing and be able to hear a musical phrase and memorize it instantly so you can build a solo off of it. Solos should focus on chord tones, usually no more than one non-chord tone per chord. Since the changes happen so quickly and the tempo is so fast, most Bop solos are primarily played with eighth notes. Often these are straight eighth notes which provides rhythmic tension against the drums which often have swung eights. However sometimes both play swung or both play straight. You just want to make sure you're not swinging every note and playing what my jazz professor called, "Swedish Chef Jazz."

A bit on reharmonization. Your common progression are going to be I-VI-ii-V, iii-VI-ii-V, I-IV-iii-vi, and ii-VI-ii-V and different combinations of them. There are plenty more of them, but those will cover most of the early tunes and getting those type of changes under your fingers will go a really long way. So if you have one chord per measure changes of I-V-I, that becomes two chords per measure I-VI-ii-V-I. When you look for reharmonizations figure out which chords are the "pillars," and which ones are for decoration. Cut out the decorations and just make sure you hit the chords you need to, when you need to. Some will be the first chord of the measure, others the second, it all depends on what their function is. Are they supposed to feel like a landing, or a launch?

Dominants are extra super special. The only important notes in a dominant chord are the root, third and seventh. Obviously you need the root for the chord to be a chord. The third and fifth create a tritone that creates the tension of the chord, which is then relieved on the next chord. With any dominant you can use any fifth (or make it a major sixth), and any ninth (or just leave it a root). You can just play a four note chord and assume the you are play a third, a fifth/sixth, a seventh, and a root/ninth. You don't need to play the root because that's the bassist's job.

You don't need to master each song, the idea is to memorize it, figure out how to play it with a solo in all twelve keys, and then move on. This will create a flexibility so that you can just look at a chart with a melody and changes and be able to play with it. Ideally you should aim to get to the point where you can do this with one or two songs a week. This will mean that in one year you will have learned between 50 and 100 songs, which is enough of a repertoire to start playing out.

Once you have the Bop thing down move onto modal jazz. The main differences here is that you will have no more than one chord per measure, sometimes one chord for as long as 16 measures. Now you can look at things from the perspective of scale/mode rather than arpeggios. Since things are also going at a slightly slower tempo (sometimes) you can also play sixteenths notes (if you care about what note division you are playing, that is). However, there are two things that carry over from Bop. First is phrasing. Those rhythmic phrases you should be working on will carry over. Second, even though it's modal music, the chord changes of Bop still sort of apply. Basically the bass is holding down some type of drone. You are exploring what different things sound like when played above that note. For example, what does a third above the different modes of the melodic minor scale sound like? Or what does the Eb of the C melodic minor scale sound like when played over the different modes produced by changing the bass note. You should do some stuff to obscure those somewhat simplistic ideas, but they will keep your playing grounded.

I forgot to mention. There are four scales you should really be concerned with. Natural Major, Harmonic Minor, Melodic Minor, and Harmonic Major. Harmonic Major is the one people tend to know the least about. Basically take the Natural Major (often just called the, "major scale") and flat the sixth. So C Harmonic Major is C-D-E-F-G-Ab-B-C. Modal music will also occasionally explore other scales like the diminished and augmented scales.

Then there's fusion. Basically take modal music (including the bebop phrasing) and add rock/metal beats, speed it back up, and bring that rock/metal "edge," to it. 

On the off chance you also are curious about free jazz, that is simpler in theory and harder in practice. It goes back to basics. Have the Bop and modal stuff down. Then play whatever you want with other people. Don't need to be in the same key (but you can be) don't need to play the same tempo (but you can), you don't need to do whatever you don't want to (but you also can). There are two main tricks to this. First, you want a coherent solo. It's not random notes. You figure out an idea (it can be super abstract, or super direct) and explore it. Second, listen to what's happening around you. You don't need to always be the center of attention. Use whatever ideas you're exploring but find ways to support whatever other weird is happening around you.

So that's pretty much all the theory. Go through that somewhat chronological style list, apply those theoretical techniques in whatever way works for you, and then you should be good to really start playing out in a year or two. Like I've said, the idea is that you become super flexible. Even if you haven't heard the song before, you'll be able to keep up. Which also means lots of ear training on the side. musictheory.net and this site which Mr. Big Noodles posted on a different thread: Online Ear Training with Intervals, Melodies, and Jazz Chord Progressions | IWasDoingAllRight are both really good for that. Just ten minutes of some ear training a day will go a long way.

If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them. And see my signature for my music theory page on youtube. I mostly haven't covered jazz harmony yet, but it will happen within the next few months. Best of luck.


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## octatoan (Apr 17, 2015)

I just feel bad for the piano players trying to learn things in all twelve keys.


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## Aion (Apr 17, 2015)

octatoan said:


> I just feel bad for the piano players trying to learn things in all twelve keys.



It's really not so bad. In some ways it's easier because you have a different feel under your hand for different keys, which means that if you're in a totally zen mode and accidentally hit wrong chord you have an instant visual of why. Steeper learning curve, but slightly easier to recover from.


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## Dutchbooked (Apr 18, 2015)

Aion said:


> It's really not so bad. In some ways it's easier because you have a different feel under your hand for different keys, which means that if you're in a totally zen mode and accidentally hit wrong chord you have an instant visual of why. Steeper learning curve, but slightly easier to recover from.




Totally agree. I think the guitar lends itself far too easy to playing finger patterns instead of music and a general disregard for the sound of different keys.
A piece in C minor stays in C minor transcribed for keyboard. On guitar it gets transposed to boring old E minor like everything else as if the key means nothing sound wise. The finger patterns work in E minor in standard tuning while C minor sucks in standard tuning finger pattern wise.


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## Aion (Apr 18, 2015)

Dutchbooked said:


> Totally agree. I think the guitar lends itself far too easy to playing finger patterns instead of music and a general disregard for the sound of different keys.
> A piece in C minor stays in C minor transcribed for keyboard. On guitar it gets transposed to boring old E minor like everything else as if the key means nothing sound wise. The finger patterns work in E minor in standard tuning while C minor sucks in standard tuning finger pattern wise.



Speaking of which, for learning stuff on guitar try and learn it in three different ways. Since guitars do have so many ways to play the same thing and so many of the same ways to play different things you want to make sure you're flexible. That way if you're playing with other people and moving through keys (every chorus move up a major third or something like that) you want to know when it's smart to just move everything your playing up a third on the same string(s), or switch to a different anchor point.


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## KFW (Apr 18, 2015)

I think a good way to get your feet wet:

If you don't know modes already, learn just two basic ones: Dorian (minor) and Ionian (major). Dick around to some jazz backing tracks with those modes, and use a lot of passing tones. That'll get you into basic beginner territory lead-wise, and if you already have decent chops then you can sit in with some jazz players. Which you might not impress them right away, but it's a good way to learn. 

Then for rhythm, learn three note chord inversions. Literally Google "three note chord inversions guitar" and you'll find all the shapes you need. Comp around on those chords, just try to sound like stereotypical jazz and you'll eventually get the hang of it. 

What's always worked for me if I want to try a new style--start as simple and generic as possible, and do that until you're comfortable with the techniques/concepts, and then start to get creative after that.


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## viesczy (Apr 24, 2015)

I don't mean to jinx you when I relate my musical history... 

I started on organ as my dad had/gigged with/on a Hammond B3 and I wanted to be like dad. So I took music/organ lessons from when I was 4 until I was about 10 when playing organ wasn't cool but sports were (IDK what I was thinking at the time). My music instructor was all ABOUT the Bachs, JS and JC especially so I had German Polyphonic Baroque stuff DOWN. 

Well I got back into music about 13-14ish and it was guitar as that was COOL thanks mostly to Yngwie's explosion onto the scene. Well as I had all sorts of music in me my guitar instructor was first about getting my hands coordinated and then it was Jazz all the time. Parker, 'Trane, Davis, Monk, & Martino. 

While I "got" the music's theory, it all just left/leaves me COLD. My ear doesn't hear any of it! I can rip all over the music, but it as no different than someone who can type REALLY fast as compared to an author creating a new work like my instructor did. He'd be all "that was great" and I'd be all "can't we just playing a little more 'white'.?"

Good luck!

Derek


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## octatoan (Apr 24, 2015)

^ You are *lucky*. Very, very cool.


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## wespaul (Apr 26, 2015)

rahul_mukerji said:


> Rock House has a great video by Alex Skolnick [Testament] which is basically an introduction to Jazz for guitarists from a Rock / Metal background. I can't recommend it enough. I have it and its very very well taught.
> 
> *Link to Rock House Product*
> 
> ...



+1 on the Jody Fisher Jazz Book. That thing is a bible for me. You linked to the beginning book, but there's a complete edition that has the beginning, intermediate, chord melody, and improvisation books all in one, and clocks in at a whopping 320 pages. If you're set on theory, then you won't need a teacher for this book and you'll quickly adapt to the jazz approach with little to no trouble at all.

It's such a fantastic book. I can't think of a better deal for $20.

I'd also recommend Howard Morgen's "Through Chord Melody and Beyond" book. It's jazz, but it involves building solo guitar arrangements, so it's a bit more involved. It may not be quite what you're looking for, but if you have even a small interest in solo jazz guitar, this book is a must-have. It's a bit more expensive than the Fisher book, though. It's definitely worth it.

http://www.amazon.com/Through-Melody-Beyond-Howard-Morgen/dp/0739049844/


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## Solodini (Apr 27, 2015)

viesczy said:


> I don't mean to jinx you when I relate my musical history...
> 
> I started on organ as my dad had/gigged with/on a Hammond B3 and I wanted to be like dad. So I took music/organ lessons from when I was 4 until I was about 10 when playing organ wasn't cool but sports were (IDK what I was thinking at the time). My music instructor was all ABOUT the Bachs, JS and JC especially so I had German Polyphonic Baroque stuff DOWN.
> 
> ...


 
I think the thing most people miss is relating the theory to what the sound feels like for you. Each interval, each rhythm, each chord and each voicing, each articulation. 
You need to develop your own way of speaking and to do so, you need to have a sense of meaning for the words you're using. Various spoken languages will use some similar sounds but combined in different ways to form different words and definitions. You may be able to make a real sentence in another language but without really feeling that language and the meaning of what you're saying. Book French is different from how fluent speakers will use the language. 
There are typical academic uses of music as analysed by theory but really, you need to develop your own dialect. You can do more with a smaller amount of theory and your own feelings on those sounds and what they represent than what you can do with 50 scales but no feeling about them. In my opinion, anyway.


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## viesczy (Apr 27, 2015)

Solodini said:


> I think the thing most people miss is relating the theory to what the sound feels like for you. Each interval, each rhythm, each chord and each voicing, each articulation.
> You need to develop your own way of speaking and to do so, you need to have a sense of meaning for the words you're using. Various spoken languages will use some similar sounds but combined in different ways to form different words and definitions. You may be able to make a real sentence in another language but without really feeling that language and the meaning of what you're saying. Book French is different from how fluent speakers will use the language.
> There are typical academic uses of music as analysed by theory but really, you need to develop your own dialect. You can do more with a smaller amount of theory and your own feelings on those sounds and what they represent than what you can do with 50 scales but no feeling about them. In my opinion, anyway.



After a decade (plus!) of almost all Bach I was just/am  towards so much of Jazz. I "get it" all that is going on, but I just don't hear it or express myself like that @ all. 

I can remember to this day going over Monk and 'Trane and the only thing that I heard/related to was their sheets of sound diminished work. Everything else just feels/sounds "off" to my ear.  

I guess if I was more well rounded I'd've been more versed... 

When Gene broke out Interstellar Space I was all "wow listen to him rip" and then I was all "wow this is just noise" as it made/makes 0 sense to my brainwashed baroque ear. 


Derek


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Apr 28, 2015)

It's like they say: If it ain't Baroque, don't fix it.


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## Solodini (Apr 28, 2015)

viesczy said:


> After a decade (plus!) of almost all Bach I was just/am  towards so much of Jazz. I "get it" all that is going on, but I just don't hear it or express myself like that @ all.
> 
> I can remember to this day going over Monk and 'Trane and the only thing that I heard/related to was their sheets of sound diminished work. Everything else just feels/sounds "off" to my ear.
> 
> ...


 
Nothing wrong with that. Personal taste.


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## octatoan (Apr 30, 2015)

Well, there's something to be said for exposing people to a wide variety of music at a young age. Ravi Shankarji never did manage to accustom himself to Trane's later work because there were too many "unnecessary" (in his opinion, of course) mode changes . . . but, as MBN said, if there's one style of music you're comfortable with and it's ultra-contrapuntal Baroque (or Indian classical!), you're lucky.


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