# fm9???



## sleewell (Jul 30, 2021)

did anyone see the recent thread on the fractal forum and then the one on TGP about this? they both got taken down pretty quickly. but I guess someone from fractal may have inadvertently spilled the beans by posting a response to something unrelated and someone saw FM9 somewhere in the pic they posted. could be easily explainable as something different but its odd they scrubbed both threads instead of addressing it. 

could be very cool imo. something bigger with more switches even if it sounds the same as the fm3. hopefully a bigger screen, maybe an expression pedal.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

sleewell said:


> did anyone see the recent thread on the fractal forum and then the one on TGP about this? they both got taken down pretty quickly. but I guess someone from fractal may have inadvertently spilled the beans by posting a response to something unrelated and someone saw FM9 somewhere in the pic they posted. could be easily explainable as something different but its odd they scrubbed both threads instead of addressing it.
> 
> could be very cool imo. something bigger with more switches even if it sounds the same as the fm3. hopefully a bigger screen, maybe an expression pedal.



A larger FM3 without its CPU limitations would literally destroy the competition (and my wallet).


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## Kyle Jordan (Jul 30, 2021)

Hmm. FM9?

I'm wondering what Fractal would pick and choose for the unit? Is it just a larger FM3? Or are they making it more powerful, but not quite a III level device? Like 4 cab spots, but not dual amps? Or the reverse.


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## budda (Jul 30, 2021)

I saw the post and the pic.

When FAS wants everyone to know, we will. 

Let the speculations begin.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

budda said:


> I saw the post and the pic.
> 
> When FAS wants everyone to know, we will.
> 
> Let the speculations begin.



They have deleted three threads already on TGP. Good sign I guess?

I love how the Tim Henson NeuralDSP plugin is out and no one seems to give a damn. Here we are speculating about a Fractal FM9 instead.


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## sleewell (Jul 30, 2021)

i am guessing its early in the dev stages. seems too early to release something that would cannibalize the fm3 which isn't even that old yet. 

lol bet the dude that posted that pic got reamed out something fierce haha. 


and yea it seems like some people are starting to get pissed at neural regarding the QC.


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## laxu (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> A larger FM3 without its CPU limitations would literally destroy the competition (and my wallet).



To me one of the most appealing bits of the FM3 is that it's not huge like my Helix Floor. The FM3 you can put almost anywhere: on a desk, on top of a cab/FRFR speaker, on the floor etc and use something else for foot control. While it could be more compact if they had ditched the miserable 3 switches, it's still the best form factor Fractal to me. But I suppose the people who went all in on the FM3 + FC6 rig would appreciate something in one box with extra I/O and more DSP.

To me the FM3 screen size is fine but its UI size is not when the unit is on the floor. Probably the most popular thing on their wish list is to increase text size and make the home view more flexible. Fractal has a bad track record for any UI improvements before a new gen is released so I don't expect that to change if they make a FM9. 

I know most Fractal fans won't care, but I really appreciate how simple assigning and ordering footswitches is on the Helix Floor using the capacitive footswitches and how you can use the buttons and expression pedal to edit blocks with just your feet if needed. It's those little practical use conveniences that make the Helix the better overall floor unit to me and its large size more palatable.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> ?
> 
> I love how the Tim Henson NeuralDSP plugin is out and no one seems to give a damn. Here we are speculating about a Fractal FM9 instead.



Who?

Aaanyway I'm glad I waited on getting an Axe 3  if this is a FM3 with 6 more buttons I'll think about it. If it's an FM3 with more buttons and a more powerful DSP I'm a buyer.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

laxu said:


> To me one of the most appealing bits of the FM3 is that it's not huge like my Helix Floor. The FM3 you can put almost anywhere: on a desk, on top of a cab/FRFR speaker, on the floor etc and use something else for foot control. While it could be more compact if they had ditched the miserable 3 switches, it's still the best form factor Fractal to me. But I suppose the people who went all in on the FM3 + FC6 rig would appreciate something in one box with extra I/O and more DSP.



I don't think they'll replace the FM3 anyway.



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Who?



That guy with terrible tone from that terrible band.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> That guy with terrible tone from that terrible band.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


>



Really? I thought I was being extremely precise.


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## narad (Jul 30, 2021)

I like how Fractal apparently gets to take down threads on TGP and we get to fly under the radar here. Someone should post whatever pic isn't allowed to be discussed like it's a sketch of the prophet Muhammad.


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## budda (Jul 30, 2021)

sleewell said:


> i am guessing its early in the dev stages. seems too early to release something that would cannibalize the fm3 which isn't even that old yet.
> 
> lol bet the dude that posted that pic got reamed out something fierce haha.
> 
> ...



I personally wouldnt be waiting around for any official announcement .


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## ArtDecade (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I love how the Tim Henson NeuralDSP plugin is out and no one seems to give a damn. Here we are speculating about a Fractal FM9 instead.



Did you mean Jim Henson? Dude's tone was tight.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 30, 2021)

budda said:


> I personally wouldnt be waiting around for any official announcement .


 After the QC stuff I'd be surprised if any of the main manufacturers for this stuff announce anything that isn't already in production.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Did you mean Jim Henson? Dude's tone was tight.




Nope. That Jim Henson dude totally had legit tone and taste. And I hear 5150s weren't around back then. No boosts either:


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## Deadpool_25 (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> A larger FM3 without its CPU limitations would literally destroy the competition (and my wallet).



QFMFT


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## ArtDecade (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Nope. That Jim Henson dude totally had legit tone and taste. And I hear 5150s weren't around back then. No boosts either:



Jim Henson was known to have a few of his Super Leads modded. Lee Jackson did one with that mid-switch and I think there a few with the Jose Arredondo mods as well.


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## Deadpool_25 (Jul 30, 2021)

My biggest want from this rumored piece of gear is full power CPU on the AxeFX III level. I’ll be near the top of the preorder list.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 30, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I’ll be near the top of the preorder list.



That's what you said about the Iconic, too.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

ArtDecade said:


> Jim Henson was known to have a few of his Super Leads modded. Lee Jackson did one with that mid-switch and I think there a few with the Jose Arredondo mods as well.



I heard David Bowie ended up buying all of them. Presumably to get them modded by Mike Fortin. 

Things didn't turn out right.


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## Shask (Jul 30, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> My biggest want from this rumored piece of gear is full power CPU on the AxeFX III level. I’ll be near the top of the preorder list.


That would probably have the full Axe III price tag also. lol

With the Semiconductor shortage, I don't see any new products rolling out well for the next 6-12 months.


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## ArtDecade (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I heard David Bowie ended up buying all of them. Presumably to get them modded by Mike Fortin.
> 
> Things didn't turn out right.



That is because Fortin outsourced the mods to Vertex and they ended up with gooped Blackstar circuits in them.


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## sevenfoxes (Jul 30, 2021)

Y’all need to calm down. It was only the M9 in that pic.


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## Deadpool_25 (Jul 30, 2021)

Shask said:


> That would probably have the full Axe III price tag also. lol
> 
> With the Semiconductor shortage, I don't see any new products rolling out well for the next 6-12 months.



I’d happily pay that price tag.

I’m patient when it comes to new product releases. After they come out though….


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## Deadpool_25 (Jul 30, 2021)

sevenfoxes said:


> Y’all need to calm down. It was only the M9 in that pic.



Yeah but it’s the new version with a color screen.


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## sevenfoxes (Jul 30, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah but it’s the new version with a color screen.


Ooooohhhh!!!!


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah but it’s the new version with a color screen.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> My biggest want from this rumored piece of gear is full power CPU on the AxeFX III level. I’ll be near the top of the preorder list.



Same, or at least the capability of stereo dual amps. It's THE main thing keeping me from getting an FM3. I miss running stereo amps. 

Although realistically I'm expecting this thing to be more like a HX Stomp > HX Stomp XL upgrade with it being more like a FM3 with an FC6 built in.


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## budda (Jul 30, 2021)

Then buy a used iii you heathen


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2021)

budda said:


> Then buy a used iii you heathen



I'm trying dammit.  Waiting for a good good price. 

But this would have the advantage of having everything in one unit. I actually like having an all-in-one floorboard over a controller + rack unit.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jul 30, 2021)

Well, does it have the AX8's cool af amp knobs? 
But yeah, FM9 should be that perfect floor modeler. I'll line up for first-day reserve.


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## Deadpool_25 (Jul 30, 2021)

So did this pic look like a prototype unit or was it just the word “FM9” written somewhere?


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## sleewell (Jul 30, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> So did this pic look like a prototype unit or was it just the word “FM9” written somewhere?


 

the latter


it was like a animated pic of a few dials and then lots of lettering across the top with FM9 towards the beginning.


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## Mathemagician (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> A larger FM3 without its CPU limitations would literally destroy the competition (and my wallet).



I don’t even need it and I want it. You could fit so many 5150’s on that. 

But seriously a little more DSP/closer to a full-on AXE3 floorboard style would be a big add. 

I’m perfectly happy with my FM3, but that’s thanks to FM3 edit. I would not have kept with if I had to edit on the unit itself.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> I don’t even need it and I want it. You could fit so many 5150’s on that.


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## laxu (Jul 30, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> I’m perfectly happy with my FM3, but that’s thanks to FM3 edit. I would not have kept with if I had to edit on the unit itself.



I've been saying this from pretty much the Axe-Fx Standard days. I just don't see myself being able to put up with the UI if I could not do 95% of my adjustments from Axe-Edit/FM3-Edit.

An Axe-Fx plugin with Axe-Edit UI cannot come soon enough.


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## sevenfoxes (Jul 30, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> I don’t even need it and I want it. You could fit so many 5150’s on that.
> 
> But seriously a little more DSP/closer to a full-on AXE3 floorboard style would be a big add.
> 
> I’m perfectly happy with my FM3, but that’s thanks to FM3 edit. I would not have kept with if I had to edit on the unit itself.


I haven’t even opened Edit yet, and yeah, using the device itself is a pain in the ass, literally, cuz I always have to bend over!

Wait, i mean…er…uh….well, you get the point.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jul 30, 2021)

sleewell said:


> the latter
> 
> 
> it was like a animated pic of a few dials and then lots of lettering across the top with FM9 towards the beginning.



i'm surprised nobody was quick enough to save and make copies of the pic (save for the guy who posted on tgp). Could also be that Fractal is actively killing the leak. (Or actively leaked it, too.)


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

laxu said:


> An Axe-Fx plugin with Axe-Edit UI cannot come soon enough.



That would be downright suicide for Fractal, and they know it. Neural plugins have been cracked already so I don't think it will ever happen.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> That would be downright suicide for Fractal, and they know it. Neural plugins have been cracked already so I don't think it will ever happen.


 Hasn't seemed to hurt L6 at all having a software counterpart to their hardware, and NDSP keeps dropping plugins, so it must be financially advantageous. Think Fractal has been around long enough and has enough clout in this market that they could get away with a $500-$600 suite like Helix Native and make money off people who would never dream of spending another $400-$500 to get into their hardware, as well as offering hardware users something a little more "plug and play" for home recording. The longer modeling goes on the less of a gap there is between the sounds of top-of-the-line and prosumer gear (lots of people would say we're already there, and people are just buying a name/feature set at this point), as well as the growing plugin market and number of people actively using PC processing even for live performance, it would make more sense than not for them to try to get into plugins.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> Hasn't seemed to hurt L6 at all having a software counterpart to their hardware, and NDSP keeps dropping plugins, so it must be financially advantageous. Think Fractal has been around long enough and has enough clout in this market that they could get away with a $500-$600 suite like Helix Native and make money off people who would never dream of spending another $400-$500 to get into their hardware, as well as offering hardware users something a little more "plug and play" for home recording. The longer modeling goes on the less of a gap there is between the sounds of top-of-the-line and prosumer gear (lots of people would say we're already there, and people are just buying a name/feature set at this point), as well as the growing plugin market and number of people actively using PC processing even for live performance, it would make more sense than not for them to try to get into plugins.



Of course there is a profitable market in plugins, but Fractal is just not interested. They do just fine being the king of the hill. No bullshit, no compromises. Hefty price tag. It has worked from them since the very beginning. Plugins always get cracked at some point and that can mean huge losses.

Neural has built their fanbase as a "poor man's Axe-Fx" alternative for home studio users (which is perfectly fine). Fractal doesn't have any need to downgrade as such, and targets the pro and touring musician instead.


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Of course there is a profitable market in plugins, but Fractal is just not interested. They do just fine being the king of the hill. No bullshit, no compromises. Hefty price tag. It has worked from them since the very beginning.
> 
> Neural has built their fanbase as a "poor man's" Axe-Fx alternative for home studio users (which is perfectly fine). Fractal doesn't have any need to downgrade as such, and targets the pro and touring musician instead.


 That's not really accurate, though. They started off only doing racks, then moved to "budget" floorboards, and their "king of the hill status" only exists in the vacuum of guitar nerd forums, Djent Shitposting, and price comparison charts. I would wager there are lot of more HX-series devices in use on stages and in bedrooms everywhere, add in the Kemper devices, the myriad budget modelers, and computer processing and I'm guessing (GUESSING) that Fractal is less than 25% of the total modeling market. Some time very soon the processing to get the "fractal sound and feel" is going to be available in $200 unites from Mooer, so it makes sense for them to establish themselves in other areas of the game before that happens.


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> That's not really accurate, though. They started off only doing racks, then moved to "budget" floorboards, and their "king of the hill status" only exists in the vacuum of guitar nerd forums, Djent Shitposting, and price comparison charts. I would wager there are lot of more HX-series devices in use on stages and in bedrooms everywhere, add in the Kemper devices, the myriad budget modelers, and computer processing and I'm guessing (GUESSING) that Fractal is less than 25% of the total modeling market. Some time very soon the processing to get the "fractal sound and feel" is going to be available in $200 unites from Mooer, so it makes sense for them to establish themselves in other areas of the game before that happens.



You still don't get it.

Of course there are more Line6 units and cheapo modelling units around than Fractal stuff. That's exactly what exclusivity means. If there were Fractal units everywhere, then they would be just like everyone else. Have you ever heard of the Klon Centaur?

They are very happy being the "Kings of the vacuum of guitar nerd forums, Djent Shitposting, and price comparison charts". Everybody knows big bands like Metallica would never use Axe-FXs as their touring rigs...


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 30, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> You still don't get it.
> 
> Of course there are more Line6 units and cheapo modelling units around than Fractal stuff. That's exactly what exclusivity means. If there were Fractal units everywhere, then they would be just like everyone else.
> 
> ...


Why, as a business, wouldn't they want to be as ubiquitous as possible in their market? We're at the point of diminishing returns in regards to "This algorithm sounds mo' betta' than that one".


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> Why, as a business, wouldn't they want to be as ubiquitous as possible in their market? We're at the point of diminishing returns in regards to "This algorithm sounds mo' betta' than that one".



Ask yourself why Lamborghini doesn't make 10k dollar cars and you got your answer


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## budda (Jul 30, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> Why, as a business, wouldn't they want to be as ubiquitous as possible in their market? We're at the point of diminishing returns in regards to "This algorithm sounds mo' betta' than that one".



Because its not about profit. It's about bringing the vision to phsyical production, to the standard Cliff has had since day 1.


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## StevenC (Jul 30, 2021)

narad said:


> I like how Fractal apparently gets to take down threads on TGP and we get to fly under the radar here. Someone should post whatever pic isn't allowed to be discussed like it's a sketch of the prophet Muhammad.


It's because not even Cliff can get a hold of Alex.


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## Shask (Jul 30, 2021)

laxu said:


> I've been saying this from pretty much the Axe-Fx Standard days. I just don't see myself being able to put up with the UI if I could not do 95% of my adjustments from Axe-Edit/FM3-Edit.
> 
> An Axe-Fx plugin with Axe-Edit UI cannot come soon enough.


I have many 90's rack units where you have to edit everything with like a 10 digit display. The Axe is super easy compared to these.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 30, 2021)

budda said:


> I saw the post and the pic.
> 
> When FAS wants everyone to know, we will.
> 
> Let the speculations begin.



Nothing like a little 'post something quick on MULTIPLE forums and then quickly take it down' to chum the waters of interest. 
The internet is probably the single best invention in the history of the world for people looking to promote/sell something.


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## Mathemagician (Jul 30, 2021)

Shask said:


> I have many 90's rack units where you have to edit everything with like a 10 digit display. The Axe is super easy compared to these.



And my parents had to walk to school uphill in the snow both ways. Now we have school busses, carpool, and online school.

Just because things are better now doesn’t mean I want them to stop getting even better-er. And shinier.


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## c7spheres (Jul 30, 2021)

One day I'll own an Axe FX VII mk2XL+ v2 running the Alpha Omega Yahweh firmware, long after IR usage is an afterthought and replaced by a better way of doing things. - It will use AI to dial in the tone and just ask you questions if you like something or not and what to do. It will calibrate to your ear-brain frequency responce - It will not only be 99% like the real thing, but even better. It will make your coffee - It will cost $10k and come with a 90 day warranty and won't be servicable in any way other than knob cap replacements. - The floor board will cost $4k and will be the only possible foot controller to use with it. - For an extra $1k I could extend the warranty to 1 year which only covers knob caps. - The knob caps will cause the unit to fail if they aren't attached and in good shape. They'll wear out naturally even though you don't even need to touch them or need them at all because the entire unit will be made of bio degradable eco freindly stuff, with exception of the radio active core processor which means the unit can power itself and your house or entire light show too with the additional adapter for $2k.

- One day I will finally try an Axe FX for an extened period. Until then all I have are snarky comments.

- In all seriousness, it's exceptionally rare to seen any company, let alone a relatively new company, do anything like what Fractal does for it's customers and it's products, and you basically never see it with anything that has do to with computer tech. For the money they seem to be a good value and a great tool.

- If they just throw a glowing tube inside they can make even more money, even if the tube doesn't do anything. It will sound more betterer with a tube in there.

TLDR; It's just a computah!
- Seems obvious if there's gonna be an FM9 it will be a suped up FM3 but maybe not quite the AxeFX 3 rack power, but probably dual amps and other stuff people've been wanting. I'm guessing a price of around $1600


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## Emperoff (Jul 30, 2021)

StevenC said:


> It's because not even Cliff can get a hold of Alex.



You guys are killing me today


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## GunpointMetal (Jul 30, 2021)

Lol, you know the conversation has jumped the SHARC when there’s nonsensical car analogies.


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## Deadpool_25 (Jul 30, 2021)

Who’s Alex?

Someone post the pic. Or at least PM me the damn thing.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 30, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Who’s Alex?
> 
> Someone post the pic. Or at least PM me the damn thing.



The actual site owner. Who also owns several other forums on the same network (Marshallforum, EverythingSG). Notorious for being really fucking hard to get contact of, even by site mods/admins.


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## Shask (Jul 30, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> And my parents had to walk to school uphill in the snow both ways. Now we have school busses, carpool, and online school.
> 
> Just because things are better now doesn’t mean I want them to stop getting even better-er. And shinier.


Doesnt mean things are unusable before they are watered down to preschool level.

The Axe FX will always be complicated to use because of the sheer number of parameters and options.


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## Mathemagician (Jul 30, 2021)

Shask said:


> Doesnt mean things are unusable before they are watered down to preschool level.
> 
> The Axe FX will always be complicated to use because of the sheer number of parameters and options.



Making a UI easier to use, without removing features is not watering something down though. It’s just making the UI easier. 

Your point would make sense if Fractal was making “dumber” units to make a simpler UI. 

The second point you make is very true which is who appreciate the effort that goes into making the edit software so useable. It’s just going to get more complex so finding buried features easier is nice imo.


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## Deadpool_25 (Jul 31, 2021)

UI improvements would be cool and welcome by many, but I’d muuuuch rather have a floor version with full CPU power. Fuuuuuck!!!! Please let it be so!


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## Mathemagician (Jul 31, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> UI improvements would be cool and welcome by many, but I’d muuuuch rather have a floor version with full CPU power. Fuuuuuck!!!! Please let it be so!



Yeah no I’m with you. I think we just went on a tangent there. More power & more IO would be a neat addition.


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## 4Eyes (Jul 31, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Everybody knows big bands like Metallica would never use Axe-FXs as their touring rigs...


you must have heard the story when at some point Metallica bought off all stock units of Axe FX IIs for their silent Antarctica shows back in 2013 or something like that...


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## laxu (Jul 31, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> That would be downright suicide for Fractal, and they know it. Neural plugins have been cracked already so I don't think it will ever happen.



I disagree. Line6 has Helix Native which is basically the software version of their modeling and seem to have no problem with that. Fractal could sell their Axe-Fx plugin for I don't know, $400-500 and it would sell to both professionals and hobbyists because their software quality is very established. 

Let's not forget that Fractal also has really good effects so if you were to buy a plugin you would not just get great amp and cab modeling but also a great fx suite that is more adjustable than many plugins out there. I use their FAS-Fx Reverb plugin pretty much every time I record something or play through plugins because it makes for such a great plate or room reverb.

Those who would be willing to use a cracked version would not buy it in the first place. Also with the regularity that Fractal releases updates, people cracking plugins would have to keep up too.


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## Emperoff (Jul 31, 2021)

It's surprising how much people forget Line6 is owned by Yamaha, who can basically do whatever they want. Cliff will never be able to compete at that level, but he can at the place he is now.

It's ok to disagree, since apparently Cliff agrees with me, so...


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 31, 2021)

At this point, I hope Fractal never releases a plug-in just to spite all the folks who bring it up in every Fractal thread.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 31, 2021)

4Eyes said:


> you must have heard the story when at some point Metallica bought off all stock units of Axe FX IIs for their silent Antarctica shows back in 2013 or something like that...



And they still use them actually. Apparently they liked them so much they replaced their tube amp touring rigs.



Still some decent sized racks, but compared to their old rigs, those were literal refrigerator racks that probably weighed a ton each.  Pretty much replacing all those heavy-ass tube power amps, tube preamps/amp heads, and ancient (and some modern) rack FX for some lightweight solid state power amps and Fractal units which weigh around 10lb each? Huge improvement.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 31, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> And they still use them actually. Apparently they liked them so much they replaced their tube amp touring rigs.
> 
> 
> 
> Still some decent sized racks, but compared to their old rigs, those were literal refrigerator racks that probably weighed a ton each.  Pretty much replacing all those heavy-ass tube power amps, tube preamps/amp heads, and ancient (and some modern) rack FX for some lightweight solid state power amps and Fractal units which weigh around 10lb each? Huge improvement.




Are you implying that Metallica, the band, has lifted their own amps in the last 30 years?


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## Emperoff (Jul 31, 2021)

4Eyes said:


> you must have heard the story when at some point Metallica bought off all stock units of Axe FX IIs for their silent Antarctica shows back in 2013 or something like that...



I watched that one. Did they really need so many Axe-Fx units to play inside an igloo? 

Now that I think of it, hearing the band's guitar tones direct through headphones is probably Periphery fans wettest dream


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## laxu (Jul 31, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Are you implying that Metallica, the band, has lifted their own amps in the last 30 years?



If you consider the transport costs of those rigs and possibly extra roadies they need to for them, having something much smaller makes sense. Even if Metallica still use tube amps in the studio, going with modelers for live use is practical for a band that tours the world.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 31, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Are you implying that Metallica, the band, has lifted their own amps in the last 30 years?



Obviously no.  But I do recall reading on the Fractal forums (or somewheres, IDK), where I think James' guitar tech posted the reduced weight did help in the long run. In the interview they mostly talk about the consistency from venue to venue being the biggest selling point. 


laxu said:


> If you consider the transport costs of those rigs and possibly extra roadies they need to for them, having something much smaller makes sense. Even if Metallica still use tube amps in the studio, going with modelers for live use is practical for a band that tours the world.


This exactly. I recall saving money on shipping costs being one of the major factors. 


Emperoff said:


> I watched that one. Did they really need so many Axe-Fx units to play inside an igloo?
> 
> Now that I think of it, hearing the band's guitar tones direct through headphones is probably Periphery fans wettest dream



To get passed the preset switching gap, they use two Fractal units; one for the main drive, and one for the various clean sounds. Guessing they didn't wanna deal with Scenes.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 31, 2021)

laxu said:


> If you consider the transport costs of those rigs and possibly extra roadies they need to for them, having something much smaller makes sense. Even if Metallica still use tube amps in the studio, going with modelers for live use is practical for a band that tours the world.



Drop in the bucket. Besides, they have contracts with back line and production companies, they're not paying their buddy Joe $20 a gig, these are huge productions being handled by professionals for many thousands of not millions of dollars.


----------



## 4Eyes (Jul 31, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Drop in the bucket. Besides, they have contracts with back line and production companies, they're not paying their buddy Joe $20 a gig, these are huge productions being handled by professionals for many thousands of not millions of dollars.


but still, there is an amount of "man hours" required to unload/load certain amount of gear somewhere in the equation when making quote for the contract. On the other hand, what are 2-3 rack "fridges" of guitar/bass gear and couple of cabs compared to 5 or more trucks required to build stadium podium, lights, screens, PA and other shit required for the show..


----------



## Emperoff (Jul 31, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> To get passed the preset switching gap, they use two Fractal units; one for the main drive, and one for the various clean sounds. Guessing they didn't wanna deal with Scenes.



I guess if you breathe money you don't deal with Scenes


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 31, 2021)

4Eyes said:


> but still, there is an amount of "man hours" required to unload/load certain amount of gear somewhere in the equation when making quote for the contract. On the other hand, what are 2-3 rack "fridges" of guitar/bass gear and couple of cabs compared to 5 or more trucks required to build stadium podium, lights, screens, PA and other shit required for the show..



Exactly, the load out for bands like this are giant. A change to the backline is meaningless big picture.


----------



## sleewell (Jul 31, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Are you implying that Metallica, the band, has lifted their own amps in the last 30 years?




No but they probably save a lot on shipping which makes each tour more profitable.


----------



## sleewell (Jul 31, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Drop in the bucket. Besides, they have contracts with back line and production companies, they're not paying their buddy Joe $20 a gig, these are huge productions being handled by professionals for many thousands of not millions of dollars.




I have heard that international tours frieght costs are huge these days and is probably a considerable factor in going digital for some bands. 

Think about like acdc for example, they probably aren't using backlines and all those heads and cabs must be very expensive especially bc lots of times they have A and B rigs so the backup can go to the next show early. If a band like Metallica can just send a rack of fractals over a years time it can save a lot.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Jul 31, 2021)

sleewell said:


> No but they probably save a lot on shipping which makes each tour more profitable.



They bring in tens of millions of dollars a tour. The freight and travel costs are for the stage equipment, people, logistics, etc. Their rigs, even at their absolute biggest, would make up a tiny fraction of those costs. Their massive guitar racks take up more space, and house far more valuable items. 

I know you guys are reaching for some greater purpose other than "fickle musicians with ALL the money" but it's just not there.


----------



## 4Eyes (Jul 31, 2021)

sleewell said:


> Think about like acdc for example, they probably aren't using backlines and all those heads and cabs must be very expensive especially bc lots of times they have A and B rigs so the backup can go to the next show early. If a band like Metallica can just send a rack of fractals over a years time it can save a lot.


Backline is a needle in giant heap of boxes, cases speaking of bands like these


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## Emperoff (Jul 31, 2021)

Honestly, I think it's just a reason of consistency and hassle, not money. These people don't hear their amps at all, and having a perfectly dialed it Axe-Fx preset into your inear Vs. your mic/d amp won't make much of a difference to them in a live situation.

Meanwhile, their techs will have much less stuff to worry about with the backline. They will sound the same every night, and less worries about tube failures, etc. Way, waaay less wiring going on in the racks to go wrong as well. Some parts of the Triaxis (which they used in the past) are not made anymore and are a bitch to repair, so they don't take out those rigs out anymore unless playing isolated shows.

I mean, compare that to AC/DC techs changing tubes after each song and alternating between heads in the process because the guys run them biased ultra hot for the toanz.

There's just a lot less stuff to go wrong.


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## Matt08642 (Jul 31, 2021)

I feel like the band's involvement with their own touring rigs, especially at this point in their careers, is that they put on the wireless pack and when they start playing Master of Puppets it sounds like the correct tone in their IEMs.


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## Spinedriver (Jul 31, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I mean, compare that to AC/DC techs changing tubes after each song and alternating between heads in the process because the guys run them biased ultra hot for the toanz.
> 
> There's just a lot less stuff to go wrong.



I immediately thought of this when you mentioned AC/DC techs....



Given how loud they play and the fact that he's running JUST the amps and no effects whatsoever (except for a noise gate and the Schaffer Box) he would be the BEST case to run an Axe or Kemper. Instead of paying how many thousands a year for the techs, replacement parts, shipping, etc... he could just get a couple Fractal or Kemper units and he'd be ready to go.
At this point, it must be kind of a psychological thing for Angus and he must just want to have a stack of tube amps back there because 'that's how he's always done it and there's no reason to change' despite how much it costs to lug around/maintain.


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## Meeotch (Jul 31, 2021)

Metallica's live tone has sucked balls for years. IMO they are just being lazy and drinking the koolaid of their Fractal rigs being "good enough" and "oh, it's so consistent though..." They could easily find a compromise like Meshuggah has done - Tube head into a Torpedo live or something. I dunno, it's easy to argue both sides of the equation but the bottom line is their live tone leaves MUCH to be desired IMO.


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## Deadpool_25 (Jul 31, 2021)

Meeotch said:


> Metallica's live tone has sucked balls for years. IMO they are just being lazy and drinking the koolaid of their Fractal rigs being "good enough" and "oh, it's so consistent though..." They could easily find a compromise like Meshuggah has done - Tube head into a Torpedo live or something. I dunno, it's easy to argue both sides of the equation but the bottom line is their live tone leaves MUCH to be desired IMO.



I saw them in Phoenix in 2017. They did sound pretty shitty for most of the show. However, it was at the Cardinals stadium which has horrible acoustics. About midway through their set I moved to a different spot and it sounded significantly better. Makes me wonder how much of their “shitty live sound” is due to the fact that they are so big they only play huge venues with crap acoustics.

I have no idea when they started using Fractals btw.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 31, 2021)

Meeotch said:


> Metallica's live tone has sucked balls for years. IMO they are just being lazy and drinking the koolaid of their Fractal rigs being "good enough" and "oh, it's so consistent though..." They could easily find a compromise like Meshuggah has done - Tube head into a Torpedo live or something. I dunno, it's easy to argue both sides of the equation but the bottom line is their live tone leaves MUCH to be desired IMO.



There live tone started sucking even before the Fractals became a mainstay in their live rig. Similar topic; as much as I liked Hardwired, you can't tell me that's the tone of someone that hasn't suffered years and years of hearing damage.


----------



## Randy (Jul 31, 2021)

Yeah Metallica has sounded like shit live most of my adult life. Weird to blame that on the Fractal move.


----------



## Meeotch (Jul 31, 2021)

Yeah it's probably unfair to blame it on their Fractal hardware. We all know those units can sound killer in the right hands. I'm bitter because they used to be such a top tier band in so many ways.


----------



## laxu (Aug 1, 2021)

Meeotch said:


> Yeah it's probably unfair to blame it on their Fractal hardware. We all know those units can sound killer in the right hands. I'm bitter because they used to be such a top tier band in so many ways.



Even when I saw Metallica before the Axe-Fx 3 days they were not the best band of the day. Gojira and Ghost both put on a better show. Metallica was consistently good but had kind of the energy of a band that has been doing this for decades now. No rough edges I suppose. They did sound good to me tho.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 1, 2021)

laxu said:


> Even when I saw Metallica before the Axe-Fx 3 days they were not the best band of the day. Gojira and Ghost both put on a better show. Metallica was consistently good but had kind of the energy of a band that has been doing this for decades now. No rough edges I suppose. They did sound good to me tho.


Gojira opened for Metallica at that 2017 Phoenix show I mentioned and they sounded kinda crappy too—again, I blame the venue (TBH I was more excited to see Gojira than Metallica; I think A7X played that show too). I saw Gojira in 2016 at a much smaller Venue (Marquee) and they sounded great.

And yeah Gojira did put on a good show. I saw Ghost too but honestly I was pretty bored. So much so that I left after about the 4th song and I _hate_ leaving shows early. The best shows I’ve been to are Tool and Muse. 

Tool is my favorite band and their live shows are one of the primary reasons for that. I don’t really even like Muse all that much but had heard they put on an amazing show so I wanted to check them out. As advertised, it was a phenomenal show.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 1, 2021)

Metallica using their tube rigs quite recently. I wouldn't blame Fractal. They started using more mids and less gain (maybe they started reading ss.org? ) for quite some time now. Their tone is just weak for the music they play.






Now, who wants that when you can just listen to this record for all your Metallica needs?


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 1, 2021)

I see the VH4s. Are those also a few Mesa Triaxis’ behind Het?


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## Emperoff (Aug 1, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I see the VH4s. Are those also a few Mesa Triaxis’ behind Het?



Yup. Those two racks are just for James. Can't see Kirk's rig on those videos.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 1, 2021)

Also regarding bad Metallica tone; I'd also probably put the blame towards their engineer. They posted a show from 2004 a month ago, and when they post official live shows, they tend to do their own remixing and whatnot. I honestly remember their tone during the Madly in Anger tour being... really fucking good, but here it sounds like aaaaaaaassss


----------



## Spinedriver (Aug 1, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> There live tone started sucking even before the Fractals became a mainstay in their live rig. Similar topic; as much as I liked Hardwired, you can't tell me that's the tone of someone that hasn't suffered years and years of hearing damage.



I was going to say, how much of it is their sound engineers and how much of it is the guys in the band ?
I've seen videos of their techs saying that they swap new stuff in & out all the time w/out James or Kirk having any idea. It could be them telling the sound guys exactly how they want it to sound (and it being not that great), it could be them leaving it in the hands of the sound guys (who may think that that kind of tone 'works' in the venues they play or just a combination of the two. The only time I ever saw them was in '88 during the Justice tour and it sounded pretty decent then. I also remember Queensryche opening for them and their sound was absolutely phenomenal.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 1, 2021)

That rig walkthrough was impressive. Always dig watching/hearing pros talk about their trade, really no matter what it is they do.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 1, 2021)

Spinedriver said:


> I was going to say, how much of it is their sound engineers and how much of it is the guys in the band ?
> I've seen videos of their techs saying that they swap new stuff in & out all the time w/out James or Kirk having any idea. It could be them telling the sound guys exactly how they want it to sound (and it being not that great), it could be them leaving it in the hands of the sound guys (who may think that that kind of tone 'works' in the venues they play or just a combination of the two. The only time I ever saw them was in '88 during the Justice tour and it sounded pretty decent then. I also remember Queensryche opening for them and their sound was absolutely phenomenal.



I'm gonna have to go with the engineers like I said above. I went back to a bunch of stuff they re-released in the passed year from the 2000s and god they made things sound so much worse. 





Took out all the bass. Cranked the absolute shit out of the mids and treble.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 1, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm gonna have to go with the engineers like I said above. I went back to a bunch of stuff they re-released in the passed year from the 2000s and god they made things sound so much worse.
> 
> 
> Took out all the bass. Cranked the absolute shit out of the mids and treble.




I was there. It was a huge open space next to a military base (40k people, IIRC). They played right after Machine Head (who played hands-down the best show of the festival), so I couldn't get close enough. Like @Deadpool_25 said, the sound changed quite a bit depending on where you were at. I recall them sounding quite bad until I was able to get closer to the stage. Then things came together and they sounded great.

Well, sound wise at least. Everyone was complaining about Lars playing and odd song choices (they played Devil's Dance!) during the whole show 

I would never judge a band's live sound for direct to mixer recordings anyway. They always sound awful.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 1, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> I was there. It was a huge open space next to a military base (40k people, IIRC). They played right after Machine Head (who played hands-down the best show of the festival), so I couldn't get close enough. Like @Deadpool_25 said, the sound changed quite a bit depending on where you were at. I recall them sounding quite bad until I was able to get closer to the stage. Then things came together and they sounded great.
> 
> Well, sound wise at least. Everyone was complaining about Lars playing and odd song choices (they played Devil's Dance!) during the whole show
> 
> I would never judge a band's live sound for direct to mixer recordings anyway. They always sound awful.



Like I said, I believe they remixed these shows. They aren't 100% direct, there was some work done to them.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 1, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Gojira opened for Metallica at that 2017 Phoenix show I mentioned and they sounded kinda crappy too—again, I blame the venue (TBH I was more excited to see Gojira than Metallica; I think A7X played that show too). I saw Gojira in 2016 at a much smaller Venue (Marquee) and they sounded great.
> 
> And yeah Gojira did put on a good show. I saw Ghost too but honestly I was pretty bored. So much so that I left after about the 4th song and I _hate_ leaving shows early. The best shows I’ve been to are Tool and Muse.
> 
> Tool is my favorite band and their live shows are one of the primary reasons for that. I don’t really even like Muse all that much but had heard they put on an amazing show so I wanted to check them out. As advertised, it was a phenomenal show.



I saw them at the Suns arena years ago, total crap sound and that venue also known for total crap sound. Sometimes an act will block off half and play to a half elipse, more or less, but not that night.


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## Emperoff (Aug 1, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like I said, I believe they remixed these shows. They aren't 100% direct, there was some work done to them.


Dunno, man. Just saying I was there and they sounded great


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 1, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Dunno, man. Just saying I was there and they sounded great



Might have misinterpreted what you meant by the soundboard mix. I was saying the Youtube videos weren't exactly direct from soundboard. They had their engineer (and producer) Greg Fidelman work on them.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 1, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Might have misinterpreted what you meant by the soundboard mix. I was saying the Youtube videos weren't exactly direct from soundboard. They had their engineer (and producer) Greg Fidelman work on them.



Yeah sure. The ones that get uploaded by them have some more mixing going on. By that time (starting 2003-2004, IIRC) they sold their own show recordings of every show for 10$, and I bought the ones I went to. They all sounded pretty much the same, but they don't sound the same as those videos for sure.

I'm comparing them for fun sake right now. The initial recordings sound way better to me. The videos have a lot more of high end.

Looks like they still sell them, but only in .mp3 format (they were available in FLAC at the time). It's been 13 years already from this one. Damn...


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## c7spheres (Aug 1, 2021)

Seabeast2000 said:


> I saw them at the Suns arena years ago, total crap sound and that venue also known for total crap sound. Sometimes an act will block off half and play to a half elipse, more or less, but not that night.



I saw them at America West Arena (which I think is the same as the Suns arena now ) on 01-04-97, and yes that arena sounds like ass, but the show I saw sounded great and kicked ass. Newsted was still with them and they were probably using the TriAxis and Recto Racks still back then. It was an in the round show and even though it was the Load tour they only played like 2 or 3 songs from Load, the rest was all old stuff.


- Korn opened up for them and they also sounded great. They even gave Korn full volume and subs, unlike most openers at these shows. 
- Probably all comes down to the sound guys. No doubt the band knows how to dial in what tones they like.


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## sleewell (Aug 27, 2021)

haha that didnt take long

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/announcing-the-new-fm9-amp-modeler-fx-processor.176122/


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## Kyle Jordan (Aug 27, 2021)

@HeHasTheJazzHands faces a new conundrum.


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## budda (Aug 27, 2021)

Join us.


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## GunpointMetal (Aug 27, 2021)

Sweet, where do I attach the EXP pedal so I don't have to mount it to a board? 
J/K
Kind of.
Not Really. 

For the price I'd be willing to give it a try, since it's closer to the format I prefer. I use too many pitch and volume FX to not have an EXP pedal on stage, though. Curious to see what this can do that my Helix can't. I'm convinced that amp modeling is down to user preference at this point, so I'm really looking for stuff like programmable LFO's, unique FX, ways to implement momentary switches, to make more wacky noises.


----------



## budda (Aug 27, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> Sweet, where do I attach the EXP pedal so I don't have to mount it to a board?
> J/K
> Kind of.
> Not Really.
> ...



Well it does the things you just listed afaik.


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 27, 2021)

"Industry leading amp modeling and FX in our most powerful floor unit ever for $1599.99! The FM9 is a nine-switch floor unit based on the award-winning Axe-Fx III, FM3, and FC Controllers. Feature highlights include a four-core DSP architecture, Cygnus amp modeling, UltraRes™ IR speaker cab simulation, a suite of our highly-acclaimed stompbox and studio effects, FASLINK II expandable footswitching, extremely flexible I/O, 8x8 USB audio, a world-class Mac/PC editor, and much more."

What does exactly four core DSP mean?


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 27, 2021)

RIP Quad Cortex 



MASS DEFECT said:


> What does exactly four core DSP mean?



_"It has twice the DSP cores of an FM3. Four SHARC+ DSP cores. So it has about twice the processing power."_


----------



## cardinal (Aug 27, 2021)

I dig it.


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## c7spheres (Aug 27, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> ................
> 
> TLDR; It's just a computah!
> - Seems obvious if there's gonna be an FM9 it will be a suped up FM3 but maybe not quite the AxeFX 3 rack power, but probably dual amps and other stuff people've been wanting. I'm guessing a price of around $1600



I hit the nail on the head! I should buy a lotto ticket.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Aug 27, 2021)

Oh hell yea. I basically never use my FM3 without the FC6. Definitely going to buy this and sell the old ones.


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## laxu (Aug 27, 2021)

This will probably take forever to arrive to Europe. Not that I am interested in getting one as the last thing I want is something larger than the FM3.


----------



## sleewell (Aug 27, 2021)

yeah I think this is really bad news for the quad cortex; it's less money and looks to be ready to ship.


----------



## Choop (Aug 27, 2021)

Interested in this myself...

>.> Curse my GAS!


----------



## budda (Aug 27, 2021)

sleewell said:


> yeah I think this is really bad news for the quad cortex; it's less money and looks to be ready to ship.



It is shipping, I believe.


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## laxu (Aug 27, 2021)

sleewell said:


> yeah I think this is really bad news for the quad cortex; it's less money and looks to be ready to ship.


I doubt many buy the QC for its DSP capabilities alone. They get it for the capture capabilities, small form factor and how it is to operate. Which IMO is still the closest thing to a pedalboard in a modeler.

Also you probably can’t get this in Europe until maybe start of next year, based on Fractal international releases in the past.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 27, 2021)

Gearwhore is back for an encore.

I’m already on the waitlist. And that’ll finish me off. Sooooo damned excited.


----------



## cardinal (Aug 27, 2021)

Yeah not to go too off topic but I'm still interested in the QC because it could capture my amps.

But this seems cool. Would let me move from my AFXIII to a smaller rack (only would need to rack the power amp; I'd have the giant heavy foot controller either way).


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 27, 2021)

....Whoops. 

Oh well, I got my Axe 3 + FC12 combo and it's been nothing but good to me.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Aug 27, 2021)

budda said:


> Well it does the things you just listed afaik.


Except for anything involving an EXP pedal, lol. I'm sure one of my buds is gonna have one soon enough for me to test drive. I'm just not sure if I can talk myself into anything that will require more than a power cord and my wireless dongle for shows any more.


----------



## Shask (Aug 27, 2021)

I can't deny that I am starting to feel the desire to upgrade from my Axe Fx II to this new family, lol.


----------



## Shask (Aug 27, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> Except for anything involving an EXP pedal, lol. I'm sure one of my buds is gonna have one soon enough for me to test drive. I'm just not sure if I can talk myself into anything that will require more than a power cord and my wireless dongle for shows any more.


Just plug one in the back. It has 3 jacks for 3 pedals.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Aug 27, 2021)

Shask said:


> Just plug one in the back. It has 3 jacks for 3 pedals.


 Then I have to either mount it to something if I don't want to plug/unplug the EXP pedal every time, or I have to unplug and plug the EXP every time I set-up/tear down. 99% of the show I play are multi-band deals with <15 minutes for change over. The few things to connect, the fewer cables, the few overall physical failure points the better. I won't bog up another thread with my personal feelings on how floor modelers should have (or at least include free of extra charge) an EXP pedal if there are any FX that use one built in, but convenience will beat out the last 8% of "better" tone something might have over what I'm using now.


----------



## budda (Aug 27, 2021)

unplugging and plugging in my exp pedal added approximately 1 minute to setup and teardown, but I understand your point.

@Shask get that sweet Cygnus!


----------



## Shask (Aug 27, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> Then I have to either mount it to something if I don't want to plug/unplug the EXP pedal every time, or I have to unplug and plug the EXP every time I set-up/tear down. 99% of the show I play are multi-band deals with <15 minutes for change over. The few things to connect, the fewer cables, the few overall physical failure points the better. I won't bog up another thread with my personal feelings on how floor modelers should have (or at least include free of extra charge) an EXP pedal if there are any FX that use one built in, but convenience will beat out the last 8% of "better" tone something might have over what I'm using now.


Just duct tape / tie strap / velcro / screw the pedal onto the side of the FM9, and then boom, you have an all in one unit that is easily movable.


----------



## budda (Aug 27, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ....Whoops.
> 
> Oh well, I got my Axe 3 + FC12 combo and it's been nothing but good to me.



I mean, you can sell them and buy this and pocket the difference?



GunpointMetal said:


> Except for anything involving an EXP pedal, lol. I'm sure one of my buds is gonna have one soon enough for me to test drive. I'm just not sure if I can talk myself into anything that will require more than a power cord and my wireless dongle for shows any more.



Oh no, using a separate expression pedal, the horror


----------



## Shask (Aug 27, 2021)

budda said:


> unplugging and plugging in my exp pedal added approximately 1 minute to setup and teardown, but I understand your point.
> 
> @Shask get that sweet Cygnus!


A week or 2 ago I made a few Humbuster cables, and REALLY sat down and tweaked the levels, impedance, etc.... using it in 4CM with my 5150 III 50w, and I am getting the best transparent results I have gotten with it like that. I ran the second output to the poweramp of my JCA100HDM, and it is sounding pretty massive.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Aug 27, 2021)

I know how silly it sounds, but when you're also running programmed lights, full IEM rig, up to three scrims, that one minute can feel like an actual breather when you're sandwiched between two other bands on either side.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Aug 27, 2021)

budda said:


> I mean, you can sell them and buy this and pocket the difference?



I think I'm good. The FM9 does do dual-amp setups but I still love how much versatility the Axe gives me.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 27, 2021)

So....who wants an AX8 rig? Pedalboard, spring loaded mission pedal, and AX8 with gigbag lmao


----------



## budda (Aug 27, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> I know how silly it sounds, but when you're also running programmed lights, full IEM rig, up to three scrims, that one minute can feel like an actual breather when you're sandwiched between two other bands on either side.



You're talking to the guy who toured north america as a 3pc for 2 years with 4 member's worth of gear, yes I understand. Kinda sounds like you guys should go over who does what on setup and teardown if 1 minute is that brutal though, no?

Edit: most shows are 15m change-overs between bands for most people. (skip the scrims, 1 banner).


----------



## MrWulf (Aug 27, 2021)

So if im someone who mainly a bedroom guitarist/producer, i suppose the AxeFX 3 over these new FM9?


----------



## budda (Aug 27, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> So if im someone who mainly a bedroom guitarist/producer, i suppose the AxeFX 3 over these new FM9?



Figure out your use case and buy the thing that fits in.

I got a III because I wanted flagship and I got a really good deal on a used one.


----------



## sleewell (Aug 27, 2021)

lol it takes you a minute to plug in an exp pedal?

what are you doing with the other 55 seconds?


----------



## GunpointMetal (Aug 27, 2021)

sleewell said:


> lol it takes you a minute to plug in an exp pedal?
> 
> what are you doing with the other 55 seconds?


Trying to find the bassist.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Aug 27, 2021)

budda said:


> You're talking to the guy who toured north america as a 3pc for 2 years with 4 member's worth of gear, yes I understand. Kinda sounds like you guys should go over who does what on setup and teardown if 1 minute is that brutal though, no?
> 
> Edit: most shows are 15m change-overs between bands for most people. (skip the scrims, 1 banner).


No amount of information is going to convince me that a floor modeler without and EXP built-in is a good design choice.


----------



## MrWulf (Aug 27, 2021)

budda said:


> Figure out your use case and buy the thing that fits in.
> 
> I got a III because I wanted flagship and I got a really good deal on a used one.



Yeah ppl are dumping their FM3/AxeFX III so im trying to figure out what use case should be fit in. Like mainly i'll be just using this with my computer (can it play thru the DAW lol) but eventually i'd like to buy a power amp and a cab to play it as well.


----------



## The Thing Upstairs (Aug 27, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> Yeah ppl are dumping their FM3/AxeFX III so im trying to figure out what use case should be fit in. Like mainly i'll be just using this with my computer (can it play thru the DAW lol) but eventually i'd like to buy a power amp and a cab to play it as well.



I'd still go with AF3 with FC6 in your use case. It's what I use. Very easy to record with the AF3.

I really like the way it sounds with a power amp and cab


----------



## budda (Aug 27, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> No amount of information is going to convince me that a floor modeler without and EXP built-in is a good design choice.



The R&D was done. You know your needs better than anyone else, so stick with what works .



MrWulf said:


> Yeah ppl are dumping their FM3/AxeFX III so im trying to figure out what use case should be fit in. Like mainly i'll be just using this with my computer (can it play thru the DAW lol) but eventually i'd like to buy a power amp and a cab to play it as well.



Ok but they all do that . How many effects do you need in one preset? How much control over each block do you want? What are your size requirements, do you plan to add any external pedals or controllers? Etc.

I play and record at home. My rig is the 3 and an expression pedal. I have been delaying a morningstar MC8 because I just use axe-edit all time anyway. When I start playing with other people on a regular basis, I'll re-evaluate.


----------



## Kyle Jordan (Aug 27, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> Yeah ppl are dumping their FM3/AxeFX III so im trying to figure out what use case should be fit in. Like mainly i'll be just using this with my computer (can it play thru the DAW lol) but eventually i'd like to buy a power amp and a cab to play it as well.



As good as the FM9 looks, and had I not bought a III earlier this year the FM9 would be my primary target now, your described usage scenario screams full on III to me. Especially if people are going to start moving their IIIs now to get the FM9 form factor.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Aug 27, 2021)

budda said:


> The R&D was done. You know your needs better than anyone else, so stick with what works .


I know, I know, I just hope if I bitch enough at the internet someone will give me what I want.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 27, 2021)

Now I want an FM-6. FM-9 Is just too much!


----------



## budda (Aug 27, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> I know, I know, I just hope if I bitch enough at the internet someone will give me what I want.



you want the guitar section


----------



## shpence (Aug 27, 2021)

Wonder if it has relays so I can change amp channels on a non-midi amp. Can't seem find it in the manual. Still going to get one but not sure if I'll need to use a midi relay or something.


----------



## shpence (Aug 27, 2021)

Ignore me. Fractal confirmed there is no relay.


----------



## Shask (Aug 27, 2021)

shpence said:


> Wonder if it has relays so I can change amp channels on a non-midi amp. Can't seem find it in the manual. Still going to get one but not sure if I'll need to use a midi relay or something.


None of the fractal units have relays.


----------



## Shask (Aug 27, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> I know, I know, I just hope if I bitch enough at the internet someone will give me what I want.


I kind of think it will go the other way. I doubt we will continue to see built in expression pedals. They always seem to break or have mechanical issues, and many people would prefer to use the pedal of their choice in terms of size, range, etc....


----------



## MrWulf (Aug 27, 2021)

budda said:


> The R&D was done. You know your needs better than anyone else, so stick with what works .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I dont know lol. But generally speaking, for me personally its probably just a few effect in one preset, and just enough control for me to fiddle around. I dont think i will do live anytime soon but something with flexibility and bang for the buck for experimentation/recording would be useful. And also not wasting any more money on tone chasing haha


----------



## GunpointMetal (Aug 27, 2021)

Shask said:


> I kind of think it will go the other way. I doubt we will continue to see built in expression pedals. They always seem to break or have mechanical issues, and many people would prefer to use the pedal of their choice in terms of size, range, etc....


 Guess I’ll just use Helix forever then. I’ve said it in other conversations, but including stuff like pitch whammy, controllable modulation, etc and not at least including a functional exp pedal (even if it’s external) is silly to me. I get some people wanting to customize their stuff, but at the same time they’re limiting the function out of the box without it. I’d be disappointedly surprised if L6 and Boss don’t have built-in exp pedals on their future flagship floor pieces.


----------



## Choop (Aug 27, 2021)

Shask said:


> None of the fractal units have relays.



My FX8 does! 

And I agree about the expression pedal thing...it's a mechanical part that can wear. I'd rather have it separate to keep options open and cut down on bulk of the main unit. Could be nice too, to allow for a shorter expression pedal to have as much pedal board real estate as possible.


----------



## sevenfoxes (Aug 27, 2021)

I’m selling mine if anyone wants one in mint condish.


----------



## Shask (Aug 27, 2021)

Choop said:


> My FX8 does!
> 
> And I agree about the expression pedal thing...it's a mechanical part that can wear. I'd rather have it separate to keep options open and cut down on bulk of the main unit. Could be nice too, to allow for a shorter expression pedal to have as much pedal board real estate as possible.


Ah, I forgot about that one. It is probably the only one that does.

I do think it is a shame more units dont have this. It can be pretty useful. I have a Replifex and G Major 2 that do this.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 27, 2021)

budda said:


> unplugging and plugging in my exp pedal added approximately 1 minute to setup and teardown, but I understand your point.
> 
> @Shask get that sweet Cygnus!



A whole minute? Seriously that’s like 50 seconds longer than I’d expect


----------



## Mathemagician (Aug 27, 2021)

MASS DEFECT said:


> "Industry leading amp modeling and FX in our most powerful floor unit ever for $1599.99! The FM9 is a nine-switch floor unit based on the award-winning Axe-Fx III, FM3, and FC Controllers. Feature highlights include a four-core DSP architecture, Cygnus amp modeling, UltraRes™ IR speaker cab simulation, a suite of our highly-acclaimed stompbox and studio effects, FASLINK II expandable footswitching, extremely flexible I/O, 8x8 USB audio, a world-class Mac/PC editor, and much more."
> 
> What does exactly four core DSP mean?



Twice as many 5150’s per patch as the two core DSP version.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 27, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> No amount of information is going to convince me that a floor modeler without and EXP built-in is a good design choice.



But. Well. That’s just your opinion man. 

Seriously though I’m super glad it doesn’t have one built in.


----------



## shpence (Aug 27, 2021)

Shask said:


> None of the fractal units have relays.


 Yeah, now I know. Thought the III did for some reason.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 27, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> Twice as many 5150’s per patch as the two core DSP version.



so you can rock a Script and Block in stereo?


----------



## Mathemagician (Aug 27, 2021)

Seabeast2000 said:


> so you can rock a Script and Block in stereo?



Yes with the fact same settings. Then a set of scenes for each alone so you can switch between in songs. It’s called nuance.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 28, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> Yes with the fact same settings. Then a set of scenes for each alone so you can switch between in songs. It’s called nuance.


Grimaces in nuance-shame


----------



## MrWulf (Aug 28, 2021)

Very tempt getting either this or the flagship. Then i will be able to stop tone chasing and just guitar chasing


----------



## laxu (Aug 28, 2021)

GunpointMetal said:


> Then I have to either mount it to something if I don't want to plug/unplug the EXP pedal every time, or I have to unplug and plug the EXP every time I set-up/tear down. 99% of the show I play are multi-band deals with <15 minutes for change over. The few things to connect, the fewer cables, the few overall physical failure points the better. I won't bog up another thread with my personal feelings on how floor modelers should have (or at least include free of extra charge) an EXP pedal if there are any FX that use one built in, but convenience will beat out the last 8% of "better" tone something might have over what I'm using now.


This is like the complete opposite how I view EXP pedals. To me they should be separate so you can put them where needed and leave them off if you don’t. Built in ones just add size and weight. It’s one of the things I dislike on my Helix Floor.


----------



## laxu (Aug 28, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> Yeah ppl are dumping their FM3/AxeFX III so im trying to figure out what use case should be fit in. Like mainly i'll be just using this with my computer (can it play thru the DAW lol) but eventually i'd like to buy a power amp and a cab to play it as well.


If you don’t need dual amps the FM3 will do plenty.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 28, 2021)

Honestly, bring back the desk processor. No switches or pedals, just the screen and knobs. 

Have it be modular, add whatever controls you need à la carte.

I know that's basically the rack unit, but it would be nice to have something more conducive to just sitting at a desk or on a music stand, heck if I could just mount it on a cymbal stand that would be great.


----------



## laxu (Aug 28, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Honestly, bring back the desk processor. No switches or pedals, just the screen and knobs.
> 
> Have it be modular, add whatever controls you need à la carte.
> 
> I know that's basically the rack unit, but it would be nice to have something more conducive to just sitting at a desk or on a music stand, heck if I could just mount it on a cymbal stand that would be great.


I would prefer that as well.


----------



## Stephan (Aug 28, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Honestly, bring back the desk processor. No switches or pedals, just the screen and knobs.
> 
> Have it be modular, add whatever controls you need à la carte.
> 
> I know that's basically the rack unit, but it would be nice to have something more conducive to just sitting at a desk or on a music stand, heck if I could just mount it on a cymbal stand that would be great.


I guess you - just as me - prefer the axe fx III form factor.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 28, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Honestly, bring back the desk processor. No switches or pedals, just the screen and knobs.
> 
> Have it be modular, add whatever controls you need à la carte.
> 
> I know that's basically the rack unit, but it would be nice to have something more conducive to just sitting at a desk or on a music stand, heck if I could just mount it on a cymbal stand that would be great.



Man, I wish other manufacturers followed the Boss GT-001 route but with a high quality standard. Everybody is a bedroom rocker now anyway!


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 28, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Man, I wish other manufacturers followed the Boss GT-001 route but with a high quality standard. Everybody is a bedroom rocker now anyway!



Even if I was gigging regularly still I'd prefer it. 

You couldn't _pay me_ to haul around a rack case anymore.


----------



## budda (Aug 28, 2021)

shpence said:


> Yeah, now I know. Thought the III did for some reason.



Fx8 had relays iirc.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 28, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Even if I was gigging regularly still I'd prefer it.
> 
> You couldn't _pay me_ to haul around a rack case anymore.



Ditto. These days I gig with a 212 combo with neodymium speakers and a trolley-style pedalboard. I don't get paid enough for carrying heavy shit


----------



## Randy (Aug 28, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Honestly, bring back the desk processor. No switches or pedals, just the screen and knobs.
> 
> Have it be modular, add whatever controls you need à la carte.
> 
> I know that's basically the rack unit, but it would be nice to have something more conducive to just sitting at a desk or on a music stand, heck if I could just mount it on a cymbal stand that would be great.



This is why I ended up buying a toaster. Maybe growing up with physical amps most of my life idk but I need to have physical shit I can turn that's staring me in the face, no menu diving.


----------



## MrWulf (Aug 28, 2021)

laxu said:


> If you don’t need dual amps the FM3 will do plenty.



I probably wont, but dual amps as in dual stereo amps or what?


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 28, 2021)

Randy said:


> This is why I ended up buying a toaster. Maybe growing up with physical amps most of my life idk but I need to have physical shit I can turn that's staring me in the face, no menu diving.





That's one of the main reasons why I've kept my Kemper around.


----------



## budda (Aug 28, 2021)

Emperoff said:


> Ditto. These days I gig with a 212 combo with neodymium speakers and a trolley-style pedalboard. I don't get paid enough for carrying heavy shit



I havent gigged since 2019, but I heavily downsized and look forward to the weight relief and space when I get back to it.


----------



## cardinal (Aug 28, 2021)

I still need a rack either way for my use case (I don't like these FRFR things, so need a power amp and a real cab). So the III and FC12 still works fine for me and would be a lot easier to edit on the fly without a computer.


----------



## MatrixClaw (Aug 28, 2021)

I pre-ordered it but I'm not sure I'll actually get it. More processing + two amps at once, more I/O and buttons sounds great, but it's also $500 more than the FM3, which I bought because of its low price vs features. $1600 is in Quad Cortex territory and I'd probably rather have that for the ease of editing on the modeler as I rarely ever use Axe-Edit, plus even more power, profiling and two mic preamps would allow me to completely replace all my recording gear.


----------



## SamSam (Aug 28, 2021)

I'd consider the upgrade from the FM3 if it fixes the fucking shit usb functionality.


----------



## Emperoff (Aug 28, 2021)

budda said:


> I havent gigged since 2019, but I heavily downsized and look forward to the weight relief and space when I get back to it.



I just gigged a couple of days ago. It was my first gig with my new setup and it was a joy to carry. Can't wait to implement the new toys I just got.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 28, 2021)

I decided to revisit this thread and quote a bunch of folks for funsies. If it looks like I’m talking shit…well, I am…but it’s all in good fun. 



sleewell said:


> could be very cool imo. something bigger with more switches even if it sounds the same as the fm3. hopefully a bigger screen, maybe an expression pedal.



4 for 6. Not bad!



sleewell said:


> i am guessing its early in the dev stages. seems too early to release something that would cannibalize the fm3 which isn't even that old yet.



Logical guess but apparently it was way past early dev stages!


HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If it's an FM3 with more buttons and a more powerful DSP I'm a buyer.



Welcome to the fam, Fam!



budda said:


> I personally wouldnt be waiting around for any official announcement .



Less than a month!



GunpointMetal said:


> After the QC stuff I'd be surprised if any of the main manufacturers for this stuff announce anything that isn't already in production.



Apparently this was right on the mark!



Deadpool_25 said:


> My biggest want from this rumored piece of gear is full power CPU on the AxeFX III level. I’ll be near the top of the preorder list.



Not quite full AxeFX power but definitely hits what I had in mind. And yeah…I’m near the top of the preorder list. 




Shask said:


> That would probably have the full Axe III price tag also. lol
> 
> With the Semiconductor shortage, I don't see any new products rolling out well for the next 6-12 months.



Well you might’ve been right about the price tag so they didn’t do full power. But I guess that semi conductor shortage happened after they’d already started building units. And/or they bought a ton of the SHARC+ processors and other stuff to have on hand.



HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Same, or at least the capability of stereo dual amps. It's THE main thing keeping me from getting an FM3. I miss running stereo amps.
> 
> Although realistically I'm expecting this thing to be more like a HX Stomp > HX Stomp XL upgrade with it being more like a FM3 with an FC6 built in.



Fuck being realistic. And again…welcome to the fam!




budda said:


> Then buy a used iii you heathen





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm trying dammit.  Waiting for a good good price.
> 
> But this would have the advantage of having everything in one unit. I actually like having an all-in-one floorboard over a controller + rack unit.





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> ....Whoops.
> 
> Oh well, I got my Axe 3 + FC12 combo and it's been nothing but good to me.




And _what have we learned??_

hint: something about not listening to budda 



MASS DEFECT said:


> Well, does it have the AX8's cool af amp knobs?
> But yeah, FM9 should be that perfect floor modeler. I'll line up for first-day reserve.



Welcome to the fam to you too sir!


c7spheres said:


> Seems obvious if there's gonna be an FM9 it will be a suped up FM3 but maybe not quite the AxeFX 3 rack power, but probably dual amps and other stuff people've been wanting. I'm guessing a price of around $1600



Nailed it!!



Mathemagician said:


> More power & more IO would be a neat addition.



Welcome to the fam?


----------



## Mathemagician (Aug 28, 2021)

I already own an FM3. Sold my Kemper for it. No ragrats.


----------



## narad (Aug 28, 2021)

Someone on here has a sort of white carbon skin looking FM3 and I don't know where to start in terms of remembering who it was, but if they want to sell their FM3 to upgrade, HMU


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 28, 2021)

narad said:


> Someone on here has a sort of white carbon skin looking FM3 and I don't know where to start in terms of remembering who it was, but if they want to sell their FM3 to upgrade, HMU



Pretty sure those are just skins folks buy, I've seen them on the Fractal forum.

https://www.gearbyceba.com/axe-fx-international/fractal-fm3-screen-guards-and-or-skins-int


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Aug 28, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> I already own an FM3. Sold my Kemper for it. No ragrats.



You will need another Kemper to sell for the FM9 tho.


----------



## Mathemagician (Aug 29, 2021)

Lol, nah I’m good. That’d be more of a want not a need. I’m only ever like half-kidding about just using 5150’s (or other super-simple chains). So unless I out-grow it in the future I’m good.

For anyone in a similar boat- I legit don’t use a fraction of the features so I’m very happy with it so far. There’s cool stuff in there if I want it.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 29, 2021)

narad said:


> Someone on here has a sort of white carbon skin looking FM3 and I don't know where to start in terms of remembering who it was, but if they want to sell their FM3 to upgrade, HMU



That would be me lol


----------



## narad (Aug 29, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> That would be me lol
> View attachment 97238
> View attachment 97239



Lol, did I read that you're planning to upgrade? It seems like you already got one (essentially)


----------



## laxu (Aug 29, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> I probably wont, but dual amps as in dual stereo amps or what?


Two amps at the same time. With the FM3 you can do just one but with 4 different amp model channels. FM9 can do two amp blocks with 4 channels each.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 29, 2021)

narad said:


> Lol, did I read that you're planning to upgrade? It seems like you already got one (essentially)



I’ll definitely upgrade. I’m on the waitlist and should be fairly high up on it.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 29, 2021)

MrWulf said:


> I probably wont, but dual amps as in dual stereo amps or what?



You use do dual amps in a few ways. You can do stereo amps with each one panned anywhere from the centrred to hard panned to either side. You can do them in dual mono. You can make switching amp models completely gap free (as opposed to just using channels which can also have a very slight gap, though not as long as switching presets).


----------



## budda (Aug 29, 2021)

Mathemagician said:


> Lol, nah I’m good. That’d be more of a want not a need. I’m only ever like half-kidding about just using 5150’s (or other super-simple chains). So unless I out-grow it in the future I’m good.
> 
> For anyone in a similar boat- I legit don’t use a fraction of the features so I’m very happy with it so far. There’s cool stuff in there if I want it.



I find most people (myself included) don't use most of what a modeller can do these days. But the point isn't to use it all, it's to have it available so you can get back to actually playing.

Just hung up my baritone. My fingers are feelin' it. Never left my amp-cab-reverb preset .


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 29, 2021)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Pretty sure those are just skins folks buy, I've seen them on the Fractal forum.
> 
> https://www.gearbyceba.com/axe-fx-international/fractal-fm3-screen-guards-and-or-skins-int



Yup. That’s who I got mine from. I’m looking forward to doing the same thing with the FM9.

@narad If you’re serious we can talk. I was considering keeping the FM3 but hadn’t decided either way. But…uh…aren’t you in Japan??


----------



## sakeido (Aug 29, 2021)

FM9 is a big ol' battleship 

An FM6 must be inevitable, no? 3 is too small, 9 is too big, 6 is just right


----------



## broangiel (Aug 29, 2021)

sakeido said:


> FM9 is a big ol' battleship
> 
> An FM6 must be inevitable, no? 3 is too small, 9 is too big, 6 is just right


I wouldn’t think so. FM3 and FM9 were born out of the concept of using the same chassis from the FC6 and FC12. FAS would need to design and source a new enclosure for an F6 or remove three switches from the FM9. Either way, doesn’t seem worth it to me. I could be wrong of course, but I don’t think a relatively small company like fractal would want to manage that many active SKUs.


----------



## budda (Aug 29, 2021)

sakeido said:


> FM9 is a big ol' battleship
> 
> An FM6 must be inevitable, no? 3 is too small, 9 is too big, 6 is just right



Doubt it'll happen. Grab an fm3 and MC3 for that one.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 29, 2021)

sakeido said:


> FM9 is a big ol' battleship
> 
> An FM6 must be inevitable, no? 3 is too small, 9 is too big, 6 is just right



I’d bet against it. The even said this completes the family. Not that they couldn’t change that but I don’t see it happening.


----------



## katsumura78 (Aug 29, 2021)

That FM3-MC6 temple board up there looks sick! I’m contemplating selling off pedals and just running a FM9 with my amps. Someone give me some advice I feel like I’ve done this 3 times now. 

Went from Mark IV for 2 years to Axe II for 7. Then sold the II for some tube amps and pedals. Sold the pedals for an Axe 3, didn’t like the front panel layout compared to how used to the II I was already. Sold the 3 for another amp and pedals. Now I’m ready to sell the pedals, keep my amps and run it all with the FM9. Help lol


----------



## budda (Aug 29, 2021)

FM9.


----------



## MatrixClaw (Aug 29, 2021)

katsumura78 said:


> That FM3-MC6 temple board up there looks sick! I’m contemplating selling off pedals and just running a FM9 with my amps. Someone give me some advice I feel like I’ve done this 3 times now.
> 
> Went from Mark IV for 2 years to Axe II for 7. Then sold the II for some tube amps and pedals. Sold the pedals for an Axe 3, didn’t like the front panel layout compared to how used to the II I was already. Sold the 3 for another amp and pedals. Now I’m ready to sell the pedals, keep my amps and run it all with the FM9. Help lol


This was the sole purpose I bought my FM3 - replace all my pedals with the added benefit of having amp models if I wanted them. Fractal's effects are fantastic and with the pedals I sold to fund it, I essentially broke even and gained more.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Aug 29, 2021)

katsumura78 said:


> That FM3-MC6 temple board up there looks sick! I’m contemplating selling off pedals and just running a FM9 with my amps. Someone give me some advice I feel like I’ve done this 3 times now.
> 
> Went from Mark IV for 2 years to Axe II for 7. Then sold the II for some tube amps and pedals. Sold the pedals for an Axe 3, didn’t like the front panel layout compared to how used to the II I was already. Sold the 3 for another amp and pedals. Now I’m ready to sell the pedals, keep my amps and run it all with the FM9. Help lol



Thanks! It’s getting replaced with the FM9 but I’m not sure I’ll keep using the temple board. Probably don’t need it with the FM9 and a couple of pedals. Well…I didn’t need it with the FM3/FC6 either but I did it so who knows lol. 

My favorite way to run the FM3 is through the loops of my amps, bypassing the amps’ preamps. It’s amazing that way. According to Cliff the FM9 will be as good fit 4CM as the III. I didn’t have any issues running the FM3 that way either but some people report some extra hiss/white noise. 

These units are just phenomenal imo. Hard to go wrong.


----------



## Avedas (Aug 30, 2021)

Oof, I've been out of the loop for a few months and now I kinda wanna sell my FM3 for this.


----------



## narad (Aug 30, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> @narad If you’re serious we can talk. I was considering keeping the FM3 but hadn’t decided either way. But…uh…aren’t you in Japan??



It's okay, in Japan, we also buy gear.


----------



## laxu (Aug 30, 2021)

katsumura78 said:


> That FM3-MC6 temple board up there looks sick! I’m contemplating selling off pedals and just running a FM9 with my amps. Someone give me some advice I feel like I’ve done this 3 times now.
> 
> Went from Mark IV for 2 years to Axe II for 7. Then sold the II for some tube amps and pedals. Sold the pedals for an Axe 3, didn’t like the front panel layout compared to how used to the II I was already. Sold the 3 for another amp and pedals. Now I’m ready to sell the pedals, keep my amps and run it all with the FM9. Help lol



I have a FM3 and I'm going the opposite direction, building a pedalboard with just what I need rather than having everything possible, without a single menu. I see enough screens for work and dislike operating the FM3 from its front panel.

IMO the Helix stuff is better for running into a real amp. Easier to operate without a computer editor, easier to map buttons, easier to setup MIDI control etc. Fractal has better modulation and reverb but I vastly prefer Helix drive section.


----------



## Nik_Left_RG (Aug 30, 2021)

I think the FM9 solves a lot of the problems FM3 faces currently - limited CPU, buttons, dual amps - so kudos to FAS for that.

For my own limited bedroom playing (mostly through headphones),I think FM3 would suffice but I am beginning to wonder how long will FAS support the FM3 ?


----------



## budda (Aug 30, 2021)

Nik_Left_RG said:


> I think the FM9 solves a lot of the problems FM3 faces currently - limited CPU, buttons, dual amps - so kudos to FAS for that.
> 
> For my own limited bedroom playing (mostly through headphones),I think FM3 would suffice but I am beginning to wonder how long will FAS support the FM3 ?



Given its current gen and they still offer support on discontinued products, I would not worry about it. FAS support is top notch.


----------



## Choop (Aug 30, 2021)

What kind of speaker solutions are most users here playing with when it comes to modelers? I'm seriously considering this thing, and either using something like a Powerstage 200 with a 2x12 cab, or a powered cab like the Friedman ASC-12. My current setup is actually great for live, but it'd be cool to have a really good solution for direct recording as well that is even less bulky.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Aug 30, 2021)

Nik_Left_RG said:


> I think the FM9 solves a lot of the problems FM3 faces currently - limited CPU, buttons, dual amps - so kudos to FAS for that.
> 
> For my own limited bedroom playing (mostly through headphones),I think FM3 would suffice but I am beginning to wonder how long will FAS support the FM3 ?



Fractal supports hardware, releasing updates, until they run out of processing power. For the Axe Standard, that was about 5 years, for the more recent Axe II, it was about 8 years. For comparison, the FM3 has only been out for about 2 years. As the units get more powerful their product life increases. So barring a major architecture change, they'll support the hardware as long as they can develop it inline with whatever the newer devices are. 

On the physical side, from my experience and what I've seen over on the FAS forum, they'll help with hardware issues so long as the components can be reasonably sourced. 

Anecdotally, I still have my old Axe Standard, and it works just fine. These things don't just explode if they don't get a new update every six months.



Choop said:


> What kind of speaker solutions are most users here playing with when it comes to modelers? I'm seriously considering this thing, and either using something like a Powerstage 200 with a 2x12 cab, or a powered cab like the Friedman ASC-12. My current setup is actually great for live, but it'd be cool to have a really good solution for direct recording as well that is even less bulky.



I use a big-ass FRFR 3-way speaker (Mackie HD1531), because it's easier to move around than a separate power amp and cab, and I can get almost endlessly loud with it, or whisper quiet, and still have great tone and respone, that in the room sound every one is after.


----------



## Nik_Left_RG (Aug 30, 2021)

Thanks @MaxOfMetal & @budda 

Just found out that there is a thread on fractal forums which pretty much covers what I was looking for..

For anyone interested-- https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fm3-future-updates-and-support.176214/page-2


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 30, 2021)

Choop said:


> What kind of speaker solutions are most users here playing with when it comes to modelers? I'm seriously considering this thing, and either using something like a Powerstage 200 with a 2x12 cab, or a powered cab like the Friedman ASC-12. My current setup is actually great for live, but it'd be cool to have a really good solution for direct recording as well that is even less bulky.



I use either my Yamaha HS7 monitors (sounds great cranked) or I run through an amp fx loop or two.

When I saw Plini he was using AxeFX through a powerstage and a 4x12 with a separate output going to FOH—that’s a pretty common setup in general…one output to a cab and another ti FOH.


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## PuriPuriPrisoner (Aug 30, 2021)

I kind of want the FM9 to use a second amp model but it's >$1700 after taxes... I can probably get ~$850-900 from selling my FM3... Should I just buy a second FM3?


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 30, 2021)

PuriPuriPrisoner said:


> I kind of want the FM9 to use a second amp model but it's >$1700 after taxes... I can probably get ~$850-900 from selling my FM3... Should I just buy a second FM3?



Maybe. Carefully build a plan for routing and control if you go that route. I considered it at one point but decided it wasn’t worth the complexity and told myself to wait for their full-power floor modeler. Thankfully that cam much faster than I’d dreamed.


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## c7spheres (Aug 30, 2021)

I wonder if it would be better/more powerful to link two FM3's rather than a single FM9 regardless of foot switches.


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## Legion (Aug 30, 2021)

Hey I'm just here to watch AX8 prices plummet so I can get one


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 30, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> I wonder if it would be better/more powerful to link two FM3's rather than a single FM9 regardless of foot switches.



That’s an interesting question. You double blocks and everything, but then are limited by the routing issues. For example, how would you envision using a 2xFM3 setup?

You also add a level of complexity to controlling them. You’d have to use some form of MIDI, whether that’s an external controller that controls both, or one FM3 controlling the other.

A guy on the Fractal forum has a pair of FM3s. I think he’s getting an FM9 but I’m not sure if he’s selling his 3s.


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## c7spheres (Aug 30, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> That’s an interesting question. You double blocks and everything, but then are limited by the routing issues. For example, how would you envision using a 2xFM3 setup?
> 
> You also add a level of complexity to controlling them. You’d have to use some form of MIDI, whether that’s an external controller that controls both, or one FM3 controlling the other.
> 
> A guy on the Fractal forum has a pair of FM3s. I think he’s getting an FM9 but I’m not sure if he’s selling his 3s.



I was thinking one for high quality reverbs and delays/mod's plus one off special effects and CPU intensive stuff, and the other as the amp and cab driver also running whatever else space allows for. 

- Each could run into each other's loops in an almost 4 cable type setup as if one Fm3 was almost like an amp. As long as any feedback loops are severed by not activating those blocks it seem it'd work fine. Or even just one in the other's loop would fine work too. 
- There'd be the added benefit of whatever else you could load in them too. Like if you wanted you could load a second Amp in the reverb one still and still route and blend dual amps in parallel, but it'd be the routing or mixer of the loop block or something. Not sure really, just brainstorming.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 30, 2021)

I’d considered running one in the other’s loop but not running both of them in each other’s loops. Could that work? Shit man, my brain hurts just thinking about it lol. Maybe. Maybe I’ll reach out to that guy on the Fractal forum and see what he’s doing and if he’s tried that.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 30, 2021)

Okay so I just drew it out on paper and…yeah…I think it could work. Obviously there are potential ground loops issues but if that’s not a problem or if it’s solvable, then it seems doable. In theory.

I’m pretty sure my head would explode trying to build patches….


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## budda (Aug 30, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> I was thinking one for high quality reverbs and delays/mod's plus one off special effects and CPU intensive stuff, and the other as the amp and cab driver also running whatever else space allows for.
> 
> - Each could run into each other's loops in an almost 4 cable type setup as if one Fm3 was almost like an amp. As long as any feedback loops are severed by not activating those blocks it seem it'd work fine. Or even just one in the other's loop would fine work too.
> - There'd be the added benefit of whatever else you could load in them too. Like if you wanted you could load a second Amp in the reverb one still and still route and blend dual amps in parallel, but it'd be the routing or mixer of the loop block or something. Not sure really, just brainstorming.



You can probably do this, but at the end of the day a more simple chain will most likely see the most use.


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## budda (Aug 30, 2021)

This may help some people in this thread:


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## HungryGuitarStudent (Aug 31, 2021)

Fractal wiki: Axe3, FM3 vs FM9 comparison.

https://www.wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Comparing_the_FM3_and_FM9_and_Axe-Fx_III

Shoot me if it was already posted.


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## Xaios (Aug 31, 2021)

Personally I hope this lowers the price on the Helix.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 1, 2021)

Xaios said:


> Personally I hope this lowers the price on the Helix.



Given Line 6's history, we'll see the release of the "Helix X" that'll magically have more competitive specs but in the same hardware.


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## laxu (Sep 1, 2021)

c7spheres said:


> I wonder if it would be better/more powerful to link two FM3's rather than a single FM9 regardless of foot switches.


I'd say no.

You can't use Axe-Edit to control several devices so you would have to be plugging them in and out to use the editor. To me their "here's a separate special version of Axe-Edit for FM3 and FM9" approach is stupid when the difference is mainly configuration but maybe they can just build them easily enough that it doesn't matter for development. I hope ultimately they can add multi-device support as well as make a single software support the different models.

With no SPDIF input on the FM3 chaining them without AD/DA conversion is also not possible and running them in parallel also makes things more complex.

I've tried running my FM3 into my Helix Floor via SPDIF and that worked quite alright but I only did this for A/B testing the two rather than running say an amp model from each.

I'd still say a single FM9 is a better option for both size and convenience. If you need the extra horsepower, sell the FM3 and get the FM9. Personally I am sticking with the FM3 because it's reasonably compact.


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## laxu (Sep 1, 2021)

Xaios said:


> Personally I hope this lowers the price on the Helix.





MaxOfMetal said:


> Given Line 6's history, we'll see the release of the "Helix X" that'll magically have more competitive specs but in the same hardware.



Line6 have pretty much said on TGP they won't just do a "Helix 2". They seem to have more ambitious plans for their next gen but are tight lipped on what exactly. Touchscreen is pretty much expected as they have said they wanted to have one on the Helix already but powers that be were reluctant to go that route.

Line6 has to do very little. It's still going to be a lot easier to get a Helix Floor than the FM9 and it is powerful enough for most users. It can still do most of the signal chains people would do on a FM9. In Europe Helix Floor is several hundred euros cheaper than the FM9 which looks to be 1899-1999 euros while Floor is 1600. The Helix LT is several hundred euros cheaper than the FM3 in Europe and slightly cheaper in the US so again they have an edge there. Line6 most likely outsells Fractal by a very large margin and the LT and HX Stomp probably sell way more simply because they are cheaper.

The FM3 is at a price point where people interested in Fractal are willing to put down the money, those already using Fractal would be more likely to put down the extra for the FM9.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 1, 2021)

laxu said:


> Line6 have pretty much said on TGP they won't just do a "Helix 2". They seem to have more ambitious plans for their next gen but are tight lipped on what exactly. Touchscreen is pretty much expected as they have said they wanted to have one on the Helix already but powers that be were reluctant to go that route.
> 
> Line6 has to do very little. It's still going to be a lot easier to get a Helix Floor than the FM9 and it is powerful enough for most users. It can still do most of the signal chains people would do on a FM9. In Europe Helix Floor is several hundred euros cheaper than the FM9 which looks to be 1899-1999 euros while Floor is 1600. The Helix LT is several hundred euros cheaper than the FM3 in Europe and slightly cheaper in the US so again they have an edge there. Line6 most likely outsells Fractal by a very large margin and the LT and HX Stomp probably sell way more simply because they are cheaper.
> 
> The FM3 is at a price point where people interested in Fractal are willing to put down the money, those already using Fractal would be more likely to put down the extra for the FM9.



Whhhooooooooshhhhhh!


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## nightlight (Sep 1, 2021)

No tone match on the FM9, like the FM3.


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## budda (Sep 1, 2021)

nightlight said:


> No tone match on the FM9, like the FM3.



Only the axe fx has a tone match block.


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## Deadpool_25 (Sep 1, 2021)

nightlight said:


> No tone match on the FM9, like the FM3.





budda said:


> Only the axe fx has a tone match block.



Correct but the FM3 and FM9 can run the IRs that the tone match block produces.

(edited for clarification)


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## soul_lip_mike (Oct 13, 2021)

Got my wait list invite today and order placed. Good timing since the USB port on my FM3 died and I can't connect it to my PC. Now I can send it for RMA without being amp-less.


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## MASS DEFECT (Oct 13, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Got my wait list invite today and order placed. Good timing since the USB port on my FM3 died and I can't connect it to my PC. Now I can send it for RMA without being amp-less.



Looks like they have a lot in stock for this batch. And much of the early hour waitlist sign-ups have been sent invites.


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## sleewell (Oct 13, 2021)

crazy seeing them sell on reverb for $3k. some people are really impatient!!


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## soul_lip_mike (Oct 13, 2021)

sleewell said:


> crazy seeing them sell on reverb for $3k. some people are really impatient!!



Yeah, fractal users are cultists I guess. As a home dad guitarist no way I would pay over sticker price for this.


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## bigcupholder (Oct 13, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> Yeah, fractal users are cultists I guess. As a home dad guitarist no way I would pay over sticker price for this.


In addition to rewarding a scalper, you also lose the warranty since it's not transferable.


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## MASS DEFECT (Oct 14, 2021)

Buying it for USD 2000+ would probably make sense if you live in another country and have to wait xx months and pay much more. But not $3000--- when you can get a Helix pretty much anywhere for less and no wait.


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 14, 2021)

Choop said:


> What kind of speaker solutions are most users here playing with when it comes to modelers? I'm seriously considering this thing, and either using something like a Powerstage 200 with a 2x12 cab, or a powered cab like the Friedman ASC-12. My current setup is actually great for live, but it'd be cool to have a really good solution for direct recording as well that is even less bulky.



Since the FM9 will be my live rig and the III is staying in my studio, I picked up a SD PS-170 to power one of the 2x12’s I currently own. Eventually, I’ll be picking up two Mesa 2x12’s and probably another PS-170 so I can go stereo and power both.

However, I’ll be tapping a feed off the amp block, before the cab block to send to FOH. The only thing that sucks about this is that I’d ideally need 4 delay blocks to do what I normally do with my clean sounds; I often use a Ping-Pong or 2290 delay in parallel, which then feeds a Reverse delay in series that’s set to half the amount of time the Ping Pong/2290 is. It creates this really cool texture where you hear all the normal delays, but then get the reverse ones fading in and out. 

Stuff like that will be a little tricky to navigate with only 2 delay blocks, but really, it’s not like it’s a necessity, just cake icing.


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## Deadpool_25 (Oct 14, 2021)

RevDrucifer said:


> I’ll be tapping a feed off the amp block, before the cab block to send to FOH.



I doubt that. 



> The only thing that sucks about this is that I’d ideally need 4 delay blocks to do what I normally do with my clean sounds; I often use a Ping-Pong or 2290 delay in parallel, which then feeds a Reverse delay in series that’s set to half the amount of time the Ping Pong/2290 is. It creates this really cool texture where you hear all the normal delays, but then get the reverse ones fading in and out.
> 
> Stuff like that will be a little tricky to navigate with only 2 delay blocks, but really, it’s not like it’s a necessity, just cake icing.



That sounds like just two delay blocks to me. One setup as a Ping-Pong and the other as a reverse. No? Also, remember you also have the Plex and Multi-Tap Delays to mess with.


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## RevDrucifer (Oct 15, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I doubt that.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like just two delay blocks to me. One setup as a Ping-Pong and the other as a reverse. No? Also, remember you also have the Plex and Multi-Tap Delays to mess with.



Hahaha you’re right, I mixed that up. I’ll be tapping off the amp block into a 2nd row that feeds into a cab block for FOH. 

But since I’ll be giving FOH a mono feed, the ping-pong delay is useless, so I’d substitute it for a mono delay. Stereo delay is for the actual cabs, but I still need a mono delay for FOH….and then the reverse delay. I’m sure I can figure out a way to make it work and in the end, it’s not the most important thing in the world. But that’s true, I do still have the Plex and Multi-tap, I hadn’t even thought of that.


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## Deadpool_25 (Oct 15, 2021)

I think this is going to be way easier than you think because you can send a stereo signal to an output and have that output sum it to mono. So the real cabs get the stereo signal and the FOH gets the stereo signal summed to mono.


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## MASS DEFECT (Oct 15, 2021)

Received mine today. So much power, I barely touch the dsp limit even with two max quality reverbs and delays and dual amps. 

She's heavy. Missing the AX8 dedicated amp knobs and its relative portability. But this is so much easier to edit without a computer.


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## Deadpool_25 (Oct 16, 2021)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Received mine today. So much power, I barely touch the dsp limit even with two max quality reverbs and delays and dual amps.
> 
> She's heavy. Missing the AX8 dedicated amp knobs and its relative portability. But this is so much easier to edit without a computer.
> View attachment 98904



Congrats! Now run it through that stealth’s FX loop and into a good cab!


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## MASS DEFECT (Oct 16, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Congrats! Now run it through that stealth’s FX loop and into a good cab!



I got a Matrix GT1600FX that I run through my 4x12 to piss of the neighbors. The Cygnus Mesa Mark and JP2C models are really awesome.


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## soul_lip_mike (Oct 19, 2021)

FM9 came yesterday. Very nice but man every time I start digging through fractal ___Edit presets I get so overwhelmed. All I ever end up doing is using someone else's presets because I don't put the time in to learn the stuff front to back.


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## Deadpool_25 (Oct 19, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> FM9 came yesterday. Very nice but man every time I start digging through fractal ___Edit presets I get so overwhelmed. All I ever end up doing is using someone else's presets because I don't put the time in to learn the stuff front to back.



You don’t need to learn what everything does imo. There’s rarely much need to venture past the authentic and ideal pages. Go to an empty preset, add your input and output blocks, add an amp and a cab and maybe a reverb and see if you need to tweak it at all. If you want to tweak a bit see if you can get what you want using just the authentic and ideal pages.

Another cool option is to just go through the first bank of factory presets (basically amp model demos) until you find something that you like. Save the amp and cab to the block library (bottom left in Edit) then navigate to a new preset, add the amp and cab, and set them to those models. The block library is a super cool function. Of course you don’t have to use factory presets. You can pick blocks from any presets you’ve imported. 

These units can quickly become overwhelming if you fee the need to learn everything right away. I’ve learned from experience (both my own and many others’) that the KISS method is almost always sufficient and is the best way to get into Fractal gear.

I told myself I’d get Cooper Carter’s in depth class if I really felt the need to deep dive but so far I don’t need to.


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## budda (Oct 19, 2021)

Most people dont even learn everything on their guitars ("everything on 10 all the time"), dont sweat it. Find tones you like and get back to playing


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## soul_lip_mike (Oct 19, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> You don’t need to learn what everything does imo. There’s rarely much need to venture past the authentic and ideal pages. Go to an empty preset, add your input and output blocks, add an amp and a cab and maybe a reverb and see if you need to tweak it at all. If you want to tweak a bit see if you can get what you want using just the authentic and ideal pages.
> 
> Another cool option is to just go through the first bank of factory presets (basically amp model demos) until you find something that you like. Save the amp and cab to the block library (bottom left in Edit) then navigate to a new preset, add the amp and cab, and set them to those models. The block library is a super cool function. Of course you don’t have to use factory presets. You can pick blocks from any presets you’ve imported.
> 
> ...



I think the hardest thing I'm struggling with currently is making sure all my presets are consistent volume-wise for rhythm and lead. I know there is a preset leveling feature in fm9 edit but I'm still figuring out the master volume/level thing, and also how to handle if I want my lead scenes to be a tiny bit louder to cut through.


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## budda (Oct 19, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I think the hardest thing I'm struggling with currently is making sure all my presets are consistent volume-wise for rhythm and lead. I know there is a preset leveling feature in fm9 edit but I'm still figuring out the master volume/level thing, and also how to handle if I want my lead scenes to be a tiny bit louder to cut through.



Try global blocks and I think theres a perform page (global and per preset) you can use to adjust on the fly.


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## MASS DEFECT (Oct 19, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> FM9 came yesterday. Very nice but man every time I start digging through fractal ___Edit presets I get so overwhelmed. All I ever end up doing is using someone else's presets because I don't put the time in to learn the stuff front to back.



Like what I did with my AX8, I just basically tried to learn to get everything done from scratch from the front panel. If I go through Axe Edit, I'll just be lost in the rabbit hole of tweaking. 

With the FM9 and FM3, it's actually much, much easier. While I miss the dedicated amp knobs of the AX8, the Ideal and Authentic amp controls are easier to manage, grasp, and control. The NAV buttons are better compared to shift+page from the AX8. 

The hardest part was learning to gain stage and make sure presets are level and not clipping. I was playing for days when I realized I had the wrong output mode for all the amp channels and my input was gained out. It was on FRFR mode and not SS Amp + Cab and I didn't pad my inputs from passive pickups to active pickups. It made the presets feel like wet noodles.


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## Deadpool_25 (Oct 19, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I think the hardest thing I'm struggling with currently is making sure all my presets are consistent volume-wise for rhythm and lead. I know there is a preset leveling feature in fm9 edit but I'm still figuring out the master volume/level thing, and also how to handle if I want my lead scenes to be a tiny bit louder to cut through.



This is my technique for preset leveling: all your presets together (500-510 for example; makes switching between them fast). Cycle through them to find the _lowest_ volume one.* Match the rest of the presets to that one using one of the Level controls (I typically use the amp block or output block). Then use the Output knob on the front panel to increase overall volume as needed.

* Using the lowest volume preset ensures you’re decreasing presets during level matching instead of increasing level. Increasing level can lead to output clipping and makes it a bit more complicated.


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## soul_lip_mike (Oct 19, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> This is my technique for preset leveling: all your presets together (500-510 for example; makes switching between them fast). Cycle through them to find the _lowest_ volume one.* Match the rest of the presets to that one using one of the Level controls (I typically use the amp block or output block). Then use the Output knob on the front panel to increase overall volume as needed.
> 
> * Using the lowest volume preset ensures you’re decreasing presets during level matching instead of increasing level. Increasing level can lead to output clipping and makes it a bit more complicated.



I'll try that. Are you using the preset leveling feature in FM9 edit and just turning the knob down in there then saving the preset?


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## Deadpool_25 (Oct 19, 2021)

MASS DEFECT said:


> While I miss the dedicated amp knobs of the AX8, the Ideal and Authentic amp controls are easier to manage, grasp, and control. The NAV buttons are better compared to shift+page from the AX8.



The Perform page(s) are the new equivalent of the dedicated knobs from the AX8 but they’re customizable. Might be worth checking those out if you haven’t already.


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## Deadpool_25 (Oct 19, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> I'll try that. Are you using the preset leveling feature in FM9 edit and just turning the knob down in there then saving the preset?



Honestly I haven’t even tried that feature lol


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 9, 2022)

FM9 Turbo incoming. For $100 more or something. No more FM9 "standard" the way I understood the chatter. I swear, those who name Fractal products and iterations are middle-aged dads. "Turbo" lol


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## grrr_me_scary (Aug 9, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> FM9 Turbo incoming. For $100 more or something. No more FM9 "standard" the way I understood the chatter. I swear, those who name Fractal products and iterations are middle-aged dads. "Turbo" lol
> 
> View attachment 112232


Once the FM9 Turbo starts shipping, we will see the crazy "increased" prices for them on eBay, Reverb, etc....... just like the FM9 Standard (and we will start to see the used FM9 Standards start to get put up for sale starting today, lol).


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 9, 2022)

Yep. Ebay scalpers will still price them exorbitantly. But not as bad as the 1st run of the Fractal FM9. Those were just shipped to very few people and FM9s priced like an AxeFx3 sold with no problem on Reverb. This turbo will probably get stocked faster and within regular intervals like the FM3.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 9, 2022)

I’ll probably get one. 10% extra power sounds nice. It’ll be a long time though lol


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 10, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I’ll probably get one. 10% extra power sounds nice. It’ll be a long time though lol



I suppose you don't need the extra 10% juice. I barely overloaded my dsp when I had mine while stacking hd delays and reverb and dual amps.


----------



## laxu (Aug 10, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I suppose you don't need the extra 10% juice. I barely overloaded my dsp when I had mine while stacking hd delays and reverb and dual amps.


Many people will figure out a way. Then they think "man, if I only had 10% extra performance over the Turbo..."

Saying this as an Axe-Fx 3 Mk2 user. I've been able to max it a few times by doing something ridiculous like this:

 Dual amps
 Dual cabs (or one stereo with Fullres IRs)
 Ultra quality reverb
 IR player for IR-based room/headphones correction
 Some fx


----------



## Genome (Aug 10, 2022)

I get hesitant buying gear now, especially digital, because every time I do they release a new better version the next day. 

Maybe I'm cursed. Just you watch, when I buy an EVH 5153, they'll announce the 5154.


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## RevDrucifer (Aug 10, 2022)

Genome said:


> I get hesitant buying gear now, especially digital, because every time I do they release a new better version the next day.
> 
> Maybe I'm cursed. Just you watch, when I buy an EVH 5153, they'll announce the 5154.



The fortunate thing is that pretty much all the top tier modelers are at a point where even if something newer/better comes along, unless someone has some kind of crazy breakthrough, the biggest selling point with be FOMO. 

I’m at a point where I’m not even updating my Fractal gear until weeks/months after an update has been out and some I just skip if it doesn’t have anything really interesting to me in it. 

In this particular case, the FM9 turbo wouldn’t even be a thing if it weren’t for the chip shortages. I think if Fractal were intending on releasing their ideal FM9 turbo, it would have had a lot more than 10% of additional power. This was just the only way they could get units moving again.


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## soul_lip_mike (Aug 10, 2022)

The turbo is supposed to solve the supply chain issues supposedly.....we'll see.


----------



## GreatGreen (Aug 10, 2022)

soul_lip_mike said:


> The turbo is supposed to solve the supply chain issues supposedly.....we'll see.



Yep. On the site they're saying that supply chain issues are causing chip shortages of the old processors, so they're moving to these.

The old chips ran at 450 MHz and the new ones run at 500 MHz. This change translates to 11% more CPU headroom for putting blocks on the grid.


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## CanserDYI (Aug 10, 2022)

How "much" DSP does something like this have over the helix floor unit? I realize it can't be quantified this simply, but if someone could explain like I'm 5 that'd be great. I literally max out every helix preset veeeery quickly.


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 10, 2022)

I wonder if the FM3 will get a chip upgrade as well.


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## laxu (Aug 10, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I wonder if the FM3 will get a chip upgrade as well.


Unlikely unless supply is constrained. The FM3 is a bit different because they also want to maintain its price as low as possible to serve as an entry level device.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Aug 10, 2022)

laxu said:


> Unlikely unless supply is constrained. The FM3 is a bit different because they also want to maintain its price as low as possible to serve as an entry level device.


I thought one of the two chips from the old fm9 was shared between the fm3. Looks like it was just the UI and systems chip. Nothing impacting modeling and dsp.


----------



## Mathemagician (Aug 10, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> FM9 Turbo incoming. For $100 more or something. No more FM9 "standard" the way I understood the chatter. I swear, those who name Fractal products and iterations are middle-aged dads. "Turbo" lol
> 
> View attachment 112232



Try named by millenials who grew up on street fighter. 

So yeah middle aged dads. 

Damn. Played myself. 




Genome said:


> I get hesitant buying gear now, especially digital, because every time I do they release a new better version the next day.
> 
> Maybe I'm cursed. Just you watch, when I buy an EVH 5153, they'll announce the 5154.



So go buy one. Help out the rest of us.


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## RevDrucifer (Aug 10, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> How "much" DSP does something like this have over the helix floor unit? I realize it can't be quantified this simply, but if someone could explain like I'm 5 that'd be great. I literally max out every helix preset veeeery quickly.



I'm sure someone knows the actual answer, but it's a moot point because none of these companies are utilizing the chips the same way. One company has all amp modeling on one chip, effects on another, some mix it up, some algorithms use up more CPU than another, etc. 

I've never used a Helix or know anything about their processing, but are you mainly doing big ass kitchen sink preset?


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## CanserDYI (Aug 10, 2022)

RevDrucifer said:


> I'm sure someone knows the actual answer, but it's a moot point because none of these companies are utilizing the chips the same way. One company has all amp modeling on one chip, effects on another, some mix it up, some algorithms use up more CPU than another, etc.
> 
> I've never used a Helix or know anything about their processing, but are you mainly doing big ass kitchen sink preset?


Yeah I like big patches with snapshots and lots of poly/pitch/DSP hungry effects, I hate the delay between Preset switches so I just try to keep it all in one.


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## laxu (Aug 10, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> How "much" DSP does something like this have over the helix floor unit? I realize it can't be quantified this simply, but if someone could explain like I'm 5 that'd be great. I literally max out every helix preset veeeery quickly.


If you manage to max out full Helix presets easily then you are most likely doing something excessive like trying to run too much of a kitchen sink setup in one preset or not utilizing the dual paths effectively.

Helix and QC instead use the "block per model" approach so if you want to switch between two amp models you need two amp blocks. IR block is the only one that can really effectively change cab sims on the fly. Snapshots allow for parameter changes inside the blocks though.

The difference to Fractal is mostly about the channels feature which lets you switch between 4 different sets of models and/or parameters within that same block. So you could go from a Fender to Marshall to Soldano to 5150 within a single amp block. Fractal is also not limited by the number of parallel paths whereas Helix has 1 parallel path per CPU.

Realistically Helix is "two amps/cabs plus some fx in one preset" if you try to cram everything into one. FM9 is "two amp/cab _blocks_ but that's 8 amps & 8x2 IRs plus fx".


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 10, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I suppose you don't need the extra 10% juice. I barely overloaded my dsp when I had mine while stacking hd delays and reverb and dual amps.


Need? Probably not. _Want_ is a completely different matter.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 10, 2022)

Genome said:


> I get hesitant buying gear now, especially digital, because every time I do they release a new better version the next day.
> 
> Maybe I'm cursed. Just you watch, when I buy an EVH 5153, they'll announce the 5154.


Then hurry up and buy one please.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 19, 2022)

Out. For. Delivery.


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 19, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Out. For. Delivery.


When did you sign up for the Turbo?


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 19, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> When did you sign up for the Turbo?



I want to be able to answer that, but…


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 19, 2022)

Someone said recently said I’m super lucky. They are not wrong.


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