# Pros and Cons: Scale Length 25-1/2" vs 24-3/4"



## DXL (Aug 29, 2013)

Hey guys, I was just wondering what would be the pros and cons of a 24-3/4 inch scale length on a guitar and a 25-1/2 inch scale length


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## jokerpanda (Aug 29, 2013)

in standard
pro:
bends more easily done

cons:
requires more thick strings for drop tunnings


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## User Name (Aug 29, 2013)

25.5 is more versatile for drop tunings and such, but even then a baritone will work even better.


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## DXL (Aug 29, 2013)

so would I be correct if the 24-3/4" length is more for lead players and 25-1/2" length is more for rhythm?


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## oneblackened (Aug 29, 2013)

Not necessarily. 

25.5 is brighter and more defined sounding than 24.75 all other things being equal. This is due to the increased tension from a given string gauge.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm not an expert but I am pretty sure the main differences are:
1) Feel. With the shorter scale there tends to be less space between notes; therefore, chords or leads where you have to 'stretch' from one note to another will be easier on the smaller scale. 
2) Tension. The shorter scale will have less tension, thus it will be easier to do bends. The downside is that if you like a really tight tension you will need to use thicker strings on the smaller scale.
3) Tonal changes. Generally the biggest change you will notice in frequency response will be that with longer scales (with all factors being the same -- woods, pickups, amps, etc.) the lower end will be a little tighter and more focused.

Please note that these are very small differences and are only slightly noticeable. The differences will become more noticeable when you go from say a 24.75" scale to a 27" baritone scale.


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## User Name (Aug 29, 2013)

i wouldnt really think of it that way, just that 24 3/4" is more for people that play in standard tuning. i think thats the average les paul scale length.


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## DXL (Aug 29, 2013)

okay thanks everyone, the reason I was curious was because I've been interested in getting an ESP Viper (ESP's version of the Gibson SG) but it has the 24.75 scale length whereas my two guitars are both 25.5, so I was curious on how differently I should use the Viper


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## User Name (Aug 29, 2013)

it should work fine. if you do feel the need to ever play in a lower tuning just throw some heaver gauge strings on it.


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## DXL (Aug 30, 2013)

Also I don't feel like starting another thread so I'm just going to ask here, is it true that putting heavier gauge strings on a guitar bows the neck? Because I've done it before with my guitars and I don't have any neck warping problems yet


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## redstone (Aug 30, 2013)

String thickness doesn't bow the neck, string tension does.


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## DXL (Aug 30, 2013)

redstone said:


> String thickness doesn't bow the neck, string tension does.



Don't higher gauge strings though have more tension when in the same tuning?


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## redstone (Aug 30, 2013)

Indeed, the purpose of higher gauges is to maintain the right tension with lower tunings/scale lengths.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Aug 30, 2013)

DXL said:


> Don't higher gauge strings though have more tension when in the same tuning?



Yes.
Usually small differences wont ruin anything but large differences (say going from a 46 in E standard to a 59 in E standard) will likely lead to some problems. If you are tuning lower then problems will subside, otherwise you can do a set-up on your guitar to compensate for the new string tension.


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav (Aug 30, 2013)

It's always a good idea to do a set-up when you move to a thicker gauge of string, as that requires widening the nut slots, and adjusting the truss rod to compensate for more tension, but a tech can do that in a few hours for $50. Not a big deal, really. And just going from 25.5 to 24.75 doesn't need that much of a string gauge change. Hell, even 11s in standard on a 24.75 are still heavier than 10s in standard on a 25.5. Chances are you can get away with using the same string gauge no problem, a buddy of mine used to tune his Viper down to Drop C with 10-46 strings and it wasn't really that bad.


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## pushpull7 (Aug 30, 2013)

Hmmmmmmmm.

Strats are more of a "standard tuning" guitar so this is interesting to me.

I've been considering a 25" scale guitar, this might be erroneous if I'm considering dropping the tunning? I also thought that you generally want higher gauge strings when dropping the tuning no matter what.


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## Given To Fly (Aug 30, 2013)

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Historically, 25.5 means Fender and 24.75 means Gibson. It was one of the differences that distinguished each brand. Fender never made a 24.75" guitar and Gibson never made a 25.5" guitar. I think that tradition still exists too. I know Fender has made 27" inch guitars but I don't think they have ever released a 24.75".


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav (Aug 30, 2013)

chrisharbin said:


> I've been considering a 25" scale guitar, this might be erroneous if I'm considering dropping the tunning? I also thought that you generally want higher gauge strings when dropping the tuning no matter what.



there's really nothing wrong with drop-tuning a shorter scale guitar, you just won't get as tight of a bass response on the low strings, but it's really not that bad. I have a 25.1" Ibanez SZ tuned to Open B with a D'addarion 11-56 set on it, it sounds and feels fantastic. And yeah, the lower you go the thicker strings you want, but it's all down to preference. Devin Townsend uses a 60 in F# on a 28" guitar, and that's ridiculously thin, but he likes the way it sounds, so more power to him.


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## DXL (Aug 30, 2013)

chrisharbin said:


> Hmmmmmmmm.
> 
> Strats are more of a "standard tuning" guitar so this is interesting to me.
> 
> I've been considering a 25" scale guitar, this might be erroneous if I'm considering dropping the tunning? I also thought that you generally want higher gauge strings when dropping the tuning no matter what.



the reason people don't often tune down strats are because most strats have single coil pickups. Single coils can't really handle that heavy


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## vangkm (Aug 30, 2013)

DXL said:


> Hey guys, I was just wondering what would be the pros and cons of a 24-3/4 inch scale length on a guitar and a 25-1/2 inch scale length



To me 24 3/4 is better for rhythm playing and 25.5 is better for lead playing. I play rhythm guitar in my band and I prefer playing short scale for that. Could be because of years of an LP being my main and only axe. I have a few 25.5 scale guitars that I like to play lead stuff on when not jamming with the band.


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## TRENCHLORD (Aug 30, 2013)

There's only like a pound tension difference between the two given that the tuning and gauges are the same.

There's twice the tension difference going from a 54 to a 56 on the same guitar (which is a couple pounds).

Honestly I feel more of a hand stretching difference than I feel the tension difference, and that's not much either.


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## pushpull7 (Aug 30, 2013)

DXL said:


> the reason people don't often tune down strats are because most strats have single coil pickups. Single coils can't really handle that heavy



I can dig it, but there is some talk in this thread that 25.5" is "better" for tuning down. I know of some LP users that at least tune down a half step so just trying to make heads or tails. Trust me, considering that my next guitar may indeed be 25.5 I'm not unhappy if this is true


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## pushpull7 (Aug 30, 2013)

TRENCHLORD said:


> There's only like a pound tension difference between the two given that the tuning and gauges are the same.
> 
> There's twice the tension difference going from a 54 to a 56 on the same guitar (which is a couple pounds).
> 
> Honestly I feel more of a hand stretching difference than I feel the tension difference, and that's not much either.



Hmmmmmm. I obviously don't understand this tension/scale thing 

Here's what I thought. Scale is a shorter distance with the smaller scale, but was not aware of the "tension" aspect. I guess it makes some sense, but was not aware it was that big a deal.


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## osirisguitar (Aug 30, 2013)

I have pretty short fingers so a 24.75 just feels better for me. I have a strat at work for lunchtime practice and all licks are just a little harder. But it's also a habit thing of course...


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## DXL (Aug 30, 2013)

chrisharbin said:


> Hmmmmmm. I obviously don't understand this tension/scale thing
> 
> Here's what I thought. Scale is a shorter distance with the smaller scale, but was not aware of the "tension" aspect. I guess it makes some sense, but was not aware it was that big a deal.



tension doesn't have to do with the scale it has to do with the string gauge. But the people here are saying with a shorter scale they recommend a higher string gauge


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## AkiraSpectrum (Aug 30, 2013)

DXL said:


> tension doesn't have to do with the scale it has to do with the string gauge. But the people here are saying with a shorter scale they recommend a higher string gauge



Not sure if I'm interpreting your post accurately here but tension does involve the scale and the string gauge from what I understand. The tension on 2 guitars tuned E standard will be different with the same string gauge from a 24.75 to a 25.5 scale. Tension will also increase with larger gauge strings.

Can't say i'm 100% positive but i'm pretty certain.


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Aug 30, 2013)

Zeno said:


> Devin Townsend uses a 60 in F# on a 28" guitar, and that's ridiculously thin, but he likes the way it sounds, so more power to him.



Wh... What? Also: when did he ever play 8 string?


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## danger5oh (Aug 30, 2013)

Given To Fly said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong...
> 
> Historically, 25.5 means Fender and 24.75 means Gibson. It was one of the differences that distinguished each brand. Fender never made a 24.75" guitar and Gibson never made a 25.5" guitar. I think that tradition still exists too. I know Fender has made 27" inch guitars but I don't think they have ever released a 24.75".



MIJ Strats can be found with a 24.75" scale and conversely, some Gibson SG's have been made with a 25.5" scale.


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## BouhZik (Aug 30, 2013)

YJGB said:


> Wh... What? Also: when did he ever play 8 string?



???

6 or 8 is not the problem. 
F# with 60 on a 28' baryton. 6 or 8 dont change the scale nor the string gauge. The difference would be 2 more HIGH strings with an 8er. 

You can go very low with very long scale, big gauge, but only 4 strings. It´s called a bass


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Aug 30, 2013)

BouhZik said:


> ???
> 
> 6 or 8 is not the problem.
> He can go G# with 60 on a 28' baryton. 6 or 8 dont change the scale lenght nor the string gauge. The difference would be he got 2 more HIGH strings with an 8er. ::



Oh, I saw a post about him having an 8 string somewhere. But then I remembered he has a 28" scale 7 string with the lowest string tuned a half step higher than the lowest string on an 8 string


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## Winspear (Aug 30, 2013)

AkiraSpectrum said:


> Not sure if I'm interpreting your post accurately here but tension does involve the scale and the string gauge from what I understand. The tension on 2 guitars tuned E standard will be different with the same string gauge from a 24.75 to a 25.5 scale. Tension will also increase with larger gauge strings.
> 
> Can't say i'm 100% positive but i'm pretty certain.



Correct. But really tension is irrelevant as you just use whatever gauge is required to get the desired tension for X tuning on X scale length.
What does come into play is the tone, the tonal difference of the same string gauge on various scale lengths (evident when playing up the neck).
Yes baritones are better for tuning down for this reason.

But 24.75 and 25.5 are so close that there is no point thinking about this at all. The only thought I'd give it is regarding bends for example 9's might be too loose on 25.5 but 10's slightly too tight for you. In that case 10's on 24.75 would be great. However you can get 9.5, so...


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## wannabguitarist (Aug 30, 2013)

Don't overthink it and just buy the guitar if you like playing 

I happen to love 24.75in guitars in D standard/drop-C with a 10-52 set. Something about that setup just makes me want to churn out cheesy metalcore and melodic death metal riffs


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## The Spanish Inquisition (Aug 30, 2013)

wannabguitarist said:


> Don't overthink it and just buy the guitar if you like playing
> 
> I happen to love 24.75in guitars in D standard/drop-C with a 10-52 set. Something about that setup just makes me want to churn out cheesy metalcore and melodic death metal riffs



I know exactly what you mean, I have my semi-hollow in drop C with those strings, and all I want to do is play metal.


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## vangkm (Aug 31, 2013)

wannabguitarist said:


> Don't overthink it and just buy the guitar if you like playing
> 
> I happen to love 24.75in guitars in D standard/drop-C with a 10-52 set. Something about that setup just makes me want to churn out cheesy metalcore and melodic death metal riffs



Whoa 10's for downtuning? I can't get by with no less than 12s for D standard and drop C or the strings just get too unstable for me.

I use 11s for 1/2 step stuff...we never tune to standard anymore but I personally only use 10s on standard.


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## wat (Aug 31, 2013)

Scale length affects the _perception_ of tension, aka the _elasticity_ of the strings. Elasticity and tension are related but different, kind of like mass and weight. 

I like both scale lengths as well as longer scale lengths

24.75" sounds thicker and bends easier 

25.5" sounds and feels snappier and takes a little more force to bend


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## wat (Aug 31, 2013)

wannabguitarist said:


> Don't overthink it and just buy the guitar if you like playing
> 
> I happen to love 24.75in guitars in D standard/drop-C with a 10-52 set. Something about that setup just makes me want to churn out cheesy metalcore and melodic death metal riffs



Les Paul in drop C with 10-52 all day erry day


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## Hammer (Aug 31, 2013)

Any change in scale will result in a different feel. I can actually feel even half an inch in difference. I kinda need to play a couple of minutes to adjust. I sort of know where the notes are on a 25.5 but until I adjust to a different scale I'm sort of lost. But hey, even a 24 fret neck throws me off, because I'm used to a 22 fret, so your mileage may vary.

24.75 could be an issue if you want to tune lower than drop A (drop B if you live somewhere where people never go below standard E), simply because you will need bigger strings and they may be harder to get and may cause some hardware issues (i.e. reslotting the nut, drilling a tuner, adjusting the bridge) and that is basically it.


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## yingmin (Aug 31, 2013)

Given To Fly said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong...
> 
> Historically, 25.5 means Fender and 24.75 means Gibson. It was one of the differences that distinguished each brand. Fender never made a 24.75" guitar and Gibson never made a 25.5" guitar. I think that tradition still exists too. I know Fender has made 27" inch guitars but I don't think they have ever released a 24.75".



I don't know of any Fenders offhand with 24.75" scale standard, but Jaguars and some other models were 24". Also, the Gibson Nighthawks have 25.5" scale, but they were designed at least partly to compete with Fender.


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## celticelk (Aug 31, 2013)

yingmin said:


> I don't know of any Fenders offhand with 24.75" scale standard, but Jaguars and some other models were 24". Also, the Gibson Nighthawks have 25.5" scale, but they were designed at least partly to compete with Fender.



The ill-fated Fender Katana was 24.75".


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## jacksonplayer (Sep 1, 2013)

yingmin said:


> I don't know of any Fenders offhand with 24.75" scale standard, but Jaguars and some other models were 24". Also, the Gibson Nighthawks have 25.5" scale, but they were designed at least partly to compete with Fender.



Gibson has made a number of guitars over the years with 25.5" scale, such as many of their jazz boxes in the 1950s, or some of their more hard rock-oriented guitars like the U-2 and Victory in the 1970s and '80s.


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## MrPowers (Sep 1, 2013)

Right now I have a Les Paul in Drob Bb with 12-60 gauge strings and a Jackson DK2M in Drop C with 11-52 Gauge strings, I like both, and I use both.

Like they said, there is about a pound of tension difference between the two, and as the scale gets longer the instrument tends to sound brighter and tighter. It also becomes easier to intonate strings when tuning extremely low with a slightly longer scale. I've had my Les Paul as low as Drop Ab without any problems though and i feel like it could go even lower than that. 

Basically it comes down to how you set it up, what strings you're using, and what pickups you have in the guitar.


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