# Beginner Sweep advice



## Laren (Jun 8, 2005)

Anybody know where i can find some good lessons on the net for beginning sweep picking? Cheers


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## BCrowell (Jun 8, 2005)

I don't have any links for you, but maybe a few good starters.

Firstly, always practice with a metronome, as this will ensure solid timing later on....start of slow.

Start off with 3-string sweeps. Don't go right into trying to pull of 6-7string sweeps right off the bat, and no fancing tapping yet either...

Ensure you are NOT picking each not but dragging the pick downward & upward at a consistent rate. I literally go through one string and come to rest on the next string, strike it, and repeat up and down the strings.

E-1---------3-2---------4-
B---2-----2-----3-----3---
G-----3-1---------4-2-----
Finger:
--1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3

This is a very SIMPLE chromatic example and a good place to start... begin at a comfy speed, and slowly increase a bit at a time. When up to 120 8th note tripletes, it sounds very cool.

From there I'd move on to a variation but on four strings, same chromatic principle. After that move on to minor/major arppegiated forms...

Here is a MAJOR form

E---------2-5-2
B-------3-------3
G-----2-----------2
D---4---------------4
A-5-------------------5
Fingering:
--4 3 1 2 1 4 1 2 1 3 4 (Note this is what I use but whatever you feel comfortable with.)

Move that up and down the neck.

Here is a minor form, but is a bit of a stretch...

E---------3-7-3
B-------5-------5
G-----4-----------4
D---5---------------5
A-7-------------------7
--4 3 2 3 1 4 1 3 2 3 4

Also work that up and down the neck.

After that you can get fancing and add taps beyond the B above....

Hope this helps...


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## Hawksmoor (Jun 8, 2005)

Just what I needed too, thanks B.


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## BCrowell (Jun 8, 2005)

I FORGOT one CRITICAL thing...each finger should ONLY be FRETTED during the note duration. The notes SHOULD NOT RING out. So to make the sweeps as clean sounding as possible, place the finger just before striking the note, and once the note duration is over, release the finger. At faster speeds it will look like the fingers doing the wave!


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## Guitarist4JC (Jun 8, 2005)

I was going to post some with all 7 strings, but someone already did on the lessons page. I believe Drew? The sweeps that are done on that page are the patterns I use as well.


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## Drew (Jun 8, 2005)

Yeah, that one's me.  

I do some hybrid stuff, too... Um, look at the first sweep in the eutude, the ascending Em. Play that as a single ascending sweep (rather than up and down, like it's written), sorta as an added extention to an Am-shaped sweep. 

My sweep picking technique blows, so maybe I'm not the best source, but one drill I've found helful with my timing is to actually alternate pick arpeggios. 

I'll write some more intro-level sweeping stuff when I get the chance, and get it up there - I haven't added anything in rather a while. 

-D


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## Shawn (Jun 8, 2005)

Arpeggios are great. Thats how I started off sweeping. My bro had a tape from 1990, a band called "Brother's Grimm" that he obtained in Hollywood while he was at MI in 1991. They are a progressive metal band where both guitarists would do these arpeggio sweeps and that got me interested in learning them about 10 years ago or so.


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## Guitarist4JC (Jun 8, 2005)

I have a another good or I think it good way of playing arp. in 3's if anyone wants me to post I will with the Power-Tab JPEG. Thanks to Drew for that one. Drew if ya want me to kick it to you so I can to see where it should be posted I'll do it. I'll work on it after work today.


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## Drew (Jun 8, 2005)

GJC - you can attach powertab files to your posts in the forum, or you can export and save 'em as jpg's and attach them to your posts here.  

-D


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## Laren (Jun 8, 2005)

Thanks guys, you're a great help!


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## Shawn (Jun 8, 2005)

Here is the first sweep I learned back in 1993. Its E min arp.-
--------------7-12-7----------------
------------8--------8--------------
-----4-/-9-------------9-\-4--------
---5-------------------------5------
-7-----------------------------7----
------------------------------------
/ = slide


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## Shawn (Jun 8, 2005)

This would be the maj.-
-------------7-12-7---------------
-----------9--------9-------------
-----4-/-9------------9-\-4-------
---6------------------------6-----
-7----------------------------7---
----------------------------------


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## Shawn (Jun 8, 2005)

Diminished-
-------------6-9-6---------------
-----------8-------8-------------
-----3-/-9-----------9-\-3-------
---5-----------------------5-----
-7---------------------------7---
---------------------------------


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## Shawn (Jun 8, 2005)

Hell, one more for the road.....
-------------6-7-6--------------
-----------7-------7------------
-----3-/-9-----------9-\-3------
---4-----------------------4----
-7---------------------------7--
--------------------------------


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## Laren (Jun 8, 2005)

i've been having a go at these an i'm pretty sucky at coming back up (desending through the scale). Although, i have a feel that i could get this after quite abit of practice.


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## Shawn (Jun 8, 2005)

Yeah they're fun after you get 'em down. Good luck,man.


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## Shawn (Jun 8, 2005)

Anybody else feel free to try these out.


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## Kevan (Jun 9, 2005)

When I first started to learn sweeping, I got really frustrated that I wasn't as fast as the Ying-thing. Of course, like most "kids", I quickly grew impatient and settled on what I call Fake Sweeps. 

It's basically done like this:

----------------14-\-19------------------
--------muted rake----muted rake---------
-----muted rake---------muted rake-------
---muted rake-------------muted rake-----
-14----------------------------(16)\-14--
------------------------------------------

Is it legit? Well, not according to Hammer, but when I'm in tight spot, they seem to get the job done. Thankfully, I only do them in the privacy of my own home, or at a venune that isn't full of critical bastards who play guitar. 
LOL


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## LordOVchaoS (Jun 9, 2005)

This one was the easiest one for me to practice...


E----------------12-17p12-------------------
B-------------13-----------13----------------
G----------14-----------------14-------------
D-------14-----------------------14----------
A----15-----------------------------15-------
E-17-----------------------------------17----
B---------------------------------------------


The only diffucult part is the 14 on the D string to the 14 on the G string. You have to quickly bring your ring finger up to hit the second one.

As mentioned before, a metronome will do you wonders!


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## Drew (Jun 9, 2005)

Kevan said:


> Is it legit? Well, not according to Hammer LOL



First time I've ever seen MC Hammer cvome up in a thread on sweeping. 

Kevan, if it makes you feel more validated, I saw a video interview with Satriani once, talking about his days in Deep Purple. He mentioned that's basically how he played sweep arpeggios, and no one seemed to mind. 

-D


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## Drew (Jun 9, 2005)

Flobanez said:


> Hell, one more for the road.....
> -------------6-7-6--------------
> -----------7-------7------------
> -----3-/-9-----------9-\-3------
> ...



Flobanez, out of curiosity, what do you consider that arpeggio? relative to E, you could call it a Esus2b5, but I mean, the rest of your chords are stock major, minor, and diminished voicings in E, while that would be a HIGHLY unusual voicing. you COULD call it a F#7 inverted over the b7, but once again, the rest of your shapes are in E, so I'm guessing you don't think of it that way. 

Whatever else it may be, an arpeggio is still a chord, not just a sequence of notes played with a sweep. And, while any sequence of three distinct notes is technically a chord, that one's not one anyone's really likely to use. This kinda came up with the last sweep lick you posted - how's your triad theory, man? You might benefit from spending some time thinking about the musical side of these, rather than just the technical. 

-D


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## Shawn (Jun 9, 2005)

Well, I must admit that last one was out beyond the stratosphere....
Something I kinda came up with while listening to Flying In A Blue Dream back in the day. Of course Flying is not in E but if it were, MAYBE this might work, I dont know as I never played this over that melody but have played it over E in similar chord variations much like Flying.
I dont know what to call it to be honest as you said an F# inverted over the B7 would sound right as the Esus2b5 sounds alright as well. So....Whatever it is, Just ignore it I guess. Didn't mean to cause anything. Just went overboard that last one. 
 
But out of curiosity, What would you call it?


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## Drew (Jun 9, 2005)

I'd call it a F#7 inverted over the b7 (not B7, which implies a chord, not a scale degree - remember, it's a b because that's the closest symbol on a keyboard to a flat sign, not because flats have anything to do with the letter "B" ), but that wouldn't be the first pattern that'd come to mind... or the second or third, for that matter. 

Either way, "Flying" is C lydian. Against a C, an F#7 would suggest a C7#11, which isn't a perfect substitution (I don't believe the b7 is a major part of the harmony on that one), but as I also don't believe there's a M7, it technically works. Food for thought- screw around a bit and see if you can see WHY a F#7 agaisnt C suggests this chord - it's a heck of a valuable insight, and there's a lot more to it than simply matching off scale degrees (this is also why the pentatonic scale is much more valuable than people usually give it credit for, as an aside )

When I get some time, I've been meaning to do a lesson on triad-based substitution for the lessons page, as it's one of the cooler little insights I picked up from studying under Paul Asbel (www.paulasbell.com) while at Midd - he's a hell of a jazz player with a good blues background, and in populat culture terms he's most notable for being the former instructor of Phish's Trey Anastasio. 

-D


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## Shawn (Jun 9, 2005)

Trey Anastasio is a great player IMO, Yeah b (I uppercased it lol.) I think thats a great idea you have planned for the lessons page as triad-based substitutions I think that'll do well. In the meantime, I'll screw around a bit to see why an F#7 against C suggests that chord.


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## wolfsd (Jun 9, 2005)

Without checking out the chord progression for "Flying..", I think it possible that in use, the esus2b5, would be used as extensions only hinting at possibilities of the tonalities...at least using Satch's pitch axis theory....when I get back from band practice I will look up the progression to see what I can come up with.

Steve


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## Shawn (Jun 9, 2005)

My guess would be that it's Lydian as apposed to this Lydian style Progression-
(the last sweep I Illustrated in Drew's post at the top of the page.)

--------------------------------------------------------------
-9------------11-----------9-------------11-----12-----14---
-9------------11-----------9-------------11-----12-----14---
-9----------- 11-----------9-------------11-----12-----14---
--------------------------------------------------------------
----000000----000000----000000-----00------00--------------

Again, This sweep was not meant to be in this thread as I made the mistake on posting an extra sweep pattern I incorporated over the years.


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## Hawksmoor (Jun 10, 2005)

I have this real problem getting my left and right hand coördination right, especially with downward sweeps.


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## Shawn (Jun 10, 2005)

Try alternate picking each note slowly and keep practicing, you'll get it.
Start out slow.


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## Drew (Jun 10, 2005)

wolfsd said:


> Without checking out the chord progression for "Flying..", I think it possible that in use, the esus2b5, would be used as extensions only hinting at possibilities of the tonalities...at least using Satch's pitch axis theory....when I get back from band practice I will look up the progression to see what I can come up with.
> 
> Steve



Steve, off the top of my head I can't say for certain, but I don't recall Satch delving too deeply into pitch access in "Flying..." which is basically C lydian throughout, as I recall. Like I said, that one should work over a C lydian groove (provided it doesn't have a strong M7 tonality) as it suggests a C7#11 (with the #11th being an enharmonic substitution for the #4, the strongest colour of the lydian mode, imo)

Anyway, if it was an example of pitch axis theory at work, we'd be talking about a Csus2b5 in an otherwise C lydian progression, not an Esus2b5 - the pitch remains constant, the tonality changes. 

-D


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## Shawn (Jun 10, 2005)




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## wolfsd (Jun 10, 2005)

I checked everything out and then remembered an article I read with Satch....one of his columns in Guitar World (April '90), so I went back and re-read his Guitar Secrets book....lo and behold, he does an article about soloing using the lydian mode.....the chord in question is an Esus2add#4, in most of his articles, he avoids using thirds in the underlying progressions or uses inversions to give some color to them.

After looking through the book....I am going to go back and use it for my workbook of the month, there is a lot of stuff I have forgotten about.....

Steve


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## wolfsd (Jun 10, 2005)

Hawksmoor said:


> I have this real problem getting my left and right hand coördination right, especially with downward sweeps.



I can't remember who I picked this up from, but whenever I learn a new pattern, be it sweeping or otherwise....I only use my fretting hand to fret the notes by hammering on, until I can do it with out thinking about it, then the co-ordination problem is simplified. For some reason it's my left hand that gives me problems when learning something new, so this seems to work out for me. Of course the standard rules apply....start slow...use a metronome....

I hope this helps....

Steve


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## Drew (Jun 10, 2005)

wolfsd said:


> I checked everything out and then remembered an article I read with Satch....one of his columns in Guitar World (April '90), so I went back and re-read his Guitar Secrets book....lo and behold, he does an article about soloing using the lydian mode.....the chord in question is an Esus2add#4, in most of his articles, he avoids using thirds in the underlying progressions or uses inversions to give some color to them.
> 
> After looking through the book....I am going to go back and use it for my workbook of the month, there is a lot of stuff I have forgotten about.....
> 
> Steve



Yeah, but that's E Lydian, right? 

Awesome suggestion, about playing arpeggios as hit-ons - great fretting hand workout.


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## wolfsd (Jun 10, 2005)

Isolated, yes it would be E Lydian, but in use with the chord progression, the esus2add#4 (b5), would be an extension of the underlying C7, which would be notated as an added11b5....or you could just think of it as having the leading tone/passing tone due to the Bb and B as the higher notes come back down to resolve at the 3rd. Either way, if it sounds good, it is good.


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## wolfsd (Jun 10, 2005)

When I get some time later, I will try and post a few of the unusal arpeggios he lists, some of them sound pretty cool.


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## Drew (Jun 10, 2005)

Yeah, #11=#4=Lydian, and it does sound good.  

I've got a copy too - cool book, and I agree. That arpeggio in "Secret Prayer" is a perfect example, IMO.

-D


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## Shawn (Jun 10, 2005)

That is a damn perfect example now that I about it.


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