# Rig idea: Poor Man's Super Kraken ... opinions?



## Backsnack (Aug 13, 2019)

I've been drooling over the idea of a Super Kraken head: Rabea and Victory voiced an incredible-sounding amp imho. I want the ability to do cleans and medium to high gain. My dilemma is that I definitely don't need a 100 watt head for home use (way too loud), and I can't justify spending $1,900 on an amp for someone like myself who's a hobbyist and not in a band or anything. I just finally want a tube amp so I can have fun with my bedroom warrior noise I like to make.

So my idea to get the SK sounds without the SK price is to get a Peavey Classic 20 Mini Head with the matching 212 cabinet, and pair it with a V4 Kraken pedal in amp-through mode. Those two pieces combined would give me effectively 4 amp channels that could be voiced from clean, mild and mid, to super high gain for a fraction of the cost. (The MH20 seems to go for about $400-450 used on Reverb pretty frequently.) I would also get the benefit of a built-in loadbox/DI, power soak down to 1 watt, and headphone out for silent playing when the wife and kid are asleep at night.

So considering all that: is this potential setup a good idea or not? Will an EL84 power section be able to convey low tunings and palm mutes well enough? As I've been doing research about amps, some folks seem to take issue with EL84s not having enough low end response. Can that be resolved with an EQ pedal in the loop?

What has this forum's experience been with EL84 amps and playing with low tunings and high gain?

Thanks.


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## BlueTrident (Aug 13, 2019)

What about the PRS MT15? You can use different over drive pedals to get different levels of crunch and insane distortion


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 13, 2019)

EL84s are fine with low tunings/high gain, provided the amp is voiced for that stuff. My mesa F30 can definitely do metal and handles low tunings/palm mutes just fine, but it's barely bedroom friendly. At the volumes I tend to use it at, I'd argue it's not bedroom friendly, and a 20w also wouldn't be.
I say just buy an MT15. It has pretty good cleans and sounds fucking huge for a 15w amp. Granted your setup cost will go up a lot, but the sound is probably going to be more in line with what you want.


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## efiltsohg (Aug 13, 2019)

Wattage doesn't matter at all for home use, design of the amp & master volume control do. My 120 watt Peavey XXX sounds better at a low volume than any other amp I've ever owned


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## Backsnack (Aug 13, 2019)

BlueTrident said:


> What about the PRS MT15? You can use different over drive pedals to get different levels of crunch and insane distortion


I'm also considering the MT15, though I wonder if I would miss the headphone out feature of the Peavey.



KnightBrolaire said:


> EL84s are fine with low tunings/high gain, provided the amp is voiced for that stuff. My mesa F30 can definitely do metal and handles low tunings/palm mutes just fine, but it's barely bedroom friendly. At the volumes I tend to use it at, I'd argue it's not bedroom friendly, and a 20w also wouldn't be.
> I say just buy an MT15. It has pretty good cleans and sounds fucking huge for a 15w amp. Granted your setup cost will go up a lot, but the sound is probably going to be more in line with what you want.


You must not have neighbors very close by. 

And if I look at used prices, the price differences between either the Peavey or the PRS would be nominal.


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## Nick (Aug 13, 2019)

Mt15 was pretty uninspiring imo. The gain channel was 'fine' but that's all. I found it to be very vanilla in that I didnt not like it but it didn't really have any identity, also the volume taper was whisper quiet then quite loud with no in between.

I'd look at the evh heads, the 6505 if you can live with the lack of tonal options or get some nice pedals with it or just go with the gold standard of mini heads and get a mini mkv when you can jump on one used. They are outstanding and I say that as an owner of the full size version.


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 13, 2019)

^the mini mkv is loud, though. even on 10watts.


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## Nick (Aug 13, 2019)

Any tube amp will be loud, you can cut the mini mkv to 5 watts I think. Its volume taper is also pretty even so that helps. I use my 90 watt one on full power in the house quiet enough to play along with music coming out my hs5 monitors and it sounds fine.

Someone said it earlier the wattage isn't your issue, its the amp master volume control that makes or breaks tubes in a bedroom setup.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 13, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> I'm also considering the MT15, though I wonder if I would miss the headphone out feature of the Peavey.
> 
> 
> You must not have neighbors very close by.
> ...


Ehh I have pretty close neighbors, I just have all my gear in the basement, so most of the noise is contained. If you stood outside my house I can bet that you'd never hear it from the street.
If noise is actually a concern, go digital or get a loadbox and go direct. I can run 100w heads at 3am without waking anyone up (including my cat sleeping 4 ft from my amps). A 5152 or 5153 would give you the headroom to better emulate the super kraken anyways.


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## Backsnack (Aug 13, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> ^the mini mkv is loud, though. even on 10watts.





Nick said:


> Any tube amp will be loud, you can cut the mini mkv to 5 watts I think. Its volume taper is also pretty even so that helps. I use my 90 watt one on full power in the house quiet enough to play along with music coming out my hs5 monitors and it sounds fine.
> 
> Someone said it earlier the wattage isn't your issue, its the amp master volume control that makes or breaks tubes in a bedroom setup.



Just to clarify: are you talking about the Mesa mark v:35 ?


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## Backsnack (Aug 13, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Ehh I have pretty close neighbors, I just have all my gear in the basement, so most of the noise is contained. If you stood outside my house I can bet that you'd never hear it from the street.
> If noise is actually a concern, go digital or get a loadbox and go direct. I can run 100w heads at 3am without waking anyone up (including my cat sleeping 4 ft from my amps). A 5152 or 5153 would give you the headroom to better emulate the super kraken anyways.


I live in so Cal, so basements here don’t exist.


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## Splenetic (Aug 13, 2019)

My Jet City JCA20H is EL84 powered. Sounds good to me with 7s in A standard with a ts pedal in front. It also pushes all the heavier digitech modeling preamps nicely when I use 4cm.


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## KnightBrolaire (Aug 13, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> I live in so Cal, so basements here don’t exist.


Then going direct with a captor is still viable


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## R34CH (Aug 13, 2019)

Nick said:


> Any tube amp will be loud, you can cut the mini mkv to 5 watts I think. Its volume taper is also pretty even so that helps.



Assuming you're referring to the Mesa Mark V 25, it cuts to 10W not 5. Also can't say I've had the same experience with the volume taper on mine...it goes from "Is this even on?" to "Eff, the police are here" with even the smallest, minute, most infinitesimally microscopic adjustments.

But that's just my experience, YMMV.


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## Backsnack (Aug 13, 2019)

KnightBrolaire said:


> Then going direct with a captor is still viable


Or just using the attenuated output into a regular cab would probably help as well.


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## Bentaycanada (Aug 13, 2019)

I’m sorry, but surely a poor mans Kraken is the Victory Kraken preamp pedal into a power amp pedal, like an EHX 44 Magnum or Mooer Baby Bomb?


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## Backsnack (Aug 13, 2019)

Bentaycanada said:


> I’m sorry, but surely a poor mans Kraken is the Victory Kraken preamp pedal into a power amp pedal, like an EHX 44 Magnum or Mooer Baby Bomb?


But then you're missing a clean channel.


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## Backsnack (Aug 13, 2019)

Ok maybe MAYBE the MT15 might a better choice .. the gain channel is pretty excellent on that. Even if I were to dial it back to more of a mid-gain setting, then use the Kraken with it for high gain, I think the more modern voicing might be a better choice.


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## sevenfoxes (Aug 13, 2019)

Yeah, the MT15 is insanely good for the money. The gain structure is fantastic, and the cleans are very nice. It doesn't really do anything aside from high gain, and great cleans though. As far as the master volume goes, it's pretty jumpy. You can easily remedy this by putting a volume pedal, or eq pedal with a volume slider in the fx loop.

Btw, if the SK is the exact tone you want, you may as well just go all out and buy the amp. Otherwise, you could be looking down a rabbit hole.


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## Nick (Aug 14, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> Just to clarify: are you talking about the Mesa mark v:35 ?



No I'm saying you should get the 25, the lunchbox head, I own the 90 watt full size if that's what you are asking.


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## The Thing Upstairs (Aug 14, 2019)

OP - if you want a super kraken, buy a super kraken. Do not let skill level or ‘hobbyist’ get in the way if it is what you really want. If you enjoy playing, and can afford nice gear, buy nice gear. It really doesn’t need to be justified. 

Back on topic, I like the clips I’ve heard of the kraken and super kraken but cannot get over the shared eq and a few other shortcomings (to me). I might pickup a 50w on eBay if I see one at a good price. 

I’ve got a sc20 (mini JCM 800) that sounds great at house friendly volumes with lowered tuning ( drop g# on a 7 and drop c on a 6). Loving my 5153 50w at the moment - this would be my recommendation - get the concentric pot version if you want the clean with a bit of hair on it)

For a couple of thousand you could probably buy 2 amps and an amp switcher 

I might get a 222 and do a 5153 / JCM rig (JCM clean by rolling back the volume is one of my favourite clean sounds).


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## Backsnack (Aug 14, 2019)

Nick said:


> No I'm saying you should get the 25, the lunchbox head, I own the 90 watt full size if that's what you are asking.


Ah, I didn't realize there was a 25 watt version until I googled it.

Thanks.


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## Backsnack (Aug 14, 2019)

The Thing Upstairs said:


> OP - if you want a super kraken, buy a super kraken. Do not let skill level or ‘hobbyist’ get in the way if it is what you really want. If you enjoy playing, and can afford nice gear, buy nice gear. It really doesn’t need to be justified.
> 
> Back on topic, I like the clips I’ve heard of the kraken and super kraken but cannot get over the shared eq and a few other shortcomings (to me). I might pickup a 50w on eBay if I see one at a good price.
> 
> ...


It's funny that you mention those two amps, because from what I can tell, Rabea designed the Kraken/Super Kraken to be sort of a blend of a JCM800 and a 5150 in terms of the voicing.

In all the videos I've seen of the SK, most people seem to leave the EQ controls at noon for the most part, and it sounds great. But I can see the desire for having more granular control of EQ for the gain channels. (Or you could just add a Source Audio Programmable EQ onto your pedalboard).


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## MASS DEFECT (Aug 14, 2019)

Nick said:


> Any tube amp will be loud, you can cut the mini mkv to 5 watts I think. Its volume taper is also pretty even so that helps. I use my 90 watt one on full power in the house quiet enough to play along with music coming out my hs5 monitors and it sounds fine.
> 
> Someone said it earlier the wattage isn't your issue, its the amp master volume control that makes or breaks tubes in a bedroom setup.



Compared to other mini lunchbox amps, the mark v:25 is one of the loudest in my experience. I think it was designed that way. Randall Smith even had an interview where he said the V25 is the most giggable and biggest sounding el84 amp. I had a MarkV25 for 2 weeks before I returned it. The volume taper is not that smooth compared to its bigger brother. My JP2C actually sounds much quieter and controllable in bedroom volumes vs the V25, and I run that at 60w at night.


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## lewis (Aug 15, 2019)

@Backsnack check out the Laney Ironheart studio.
Way more features, way more bedroom friendly and way more portable. Reamps, got a attenuator for cranked tubes but bedroom friendly volume.

Its an absolutely sick product for home use and will do everything you want


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## gunch (Aug 15, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> But then you're missing a clean channel.



There’s a pedal for that


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## laxu (Aug 16, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> Wattage doesn't matter at all for home use, design of the amp & master volume control do. My 120 watt Peavey XXX sounds better at a low volume than any other amp I've ever owned



Wattage definitely matters. Meaning that higher wattage is better if you play heavier stuff. My Bogner goes between 15/23/30/45W and the full 45W has the best low end response by far. It stays tighter and bolder than the lower power settings.

If the Super Kraken is anything like the lunchbox Kraken then it has a pretty awful master volume. Through the Victory 4x12 I measured nearly 100 dB @ 1m when the amp was on 1. That doesn't mean it's a super loud amp, it just means it has a completely stupid volume control taper where all the volume comes in right away. By comparison my Bogner on 1 is probably something super low like 60-70 dB @ 1m despite being about the same power and to reach 100 dB I have to turn it to somewhere around 11 o'clock. That allows for a lot more control over low volume.

If you want to try the V4 Kraken pedal then I would look for some used 50+ watt rack poweramp as they tend to go for reasonable money.

My favorite do-it-all amp right now is the BluGuitar Amp1 Mercury Edition. I suggest trying it if you can because it would do all the things you are looking for and could probably be dialed to sound a lot like the Victory stuff.


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## DudeManBrother (Aug 16, 2019)

EL84’s don’t produce as much low end as the big glass; which is great for certain applications. Most low tuned guitars suffer from too much low end anyways. 

The MT15 is voiced with an emphasis in the upper mids and treble. This makes the perceived volume much louder than an actual dB reading would indicate. It also helps the perceived balance the low end. 

Headroom is critical for a tight low end as well. The low end uses the most energy and is the first frequency region to clip/distort when headroom is gone. 

If a V4 pedal into a tube amp is your goal: a bright amp usually sounds best with gain pedals up front. Most distortion pedals are voiced on the darker side to balance in front of an amp. Some are actually voiced as a preamp, meaning they have a full treble spectrum, and sound best in the effects return, bypassing the preamp entirely. 

If the V4 is more of a preamp (has a ton of treble) then look for an amp with a shapable (Depth and Presence) Power section and use the effects return. If it’s more of a distortion pedal (darker tone) then grab something that’s really bright, with clean headroom and run it in front.


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## efiltsohg (Aug 16, 2019)

laxu said:


> Wattage definitely matters. Meaning that higher wattage is better if you play heavier stuff.



I agree with that for most amps but I meant wrt playing at bedroom volumes. Depends on the design of the amp as well, I would guess most variable wattage amps are voiced around the top power rating and the cut power settings are just thrown in without any special considerations


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## laxu (Aug 16, 2019)

efiltsohg said:


> I agree with that for most amps but I meant wrt playing at bedroom volumes. Depends on the design of the amp as well, I would guess most variable wattage amps are voiced around the top power rating and the cut power settings are just thrown in without any special considerations



In my experience it does not matter what volume you are using, the higher power will still deliver bigger low end. 50 to 100 won't be that big difference but 25 to 50 is definitely noticeable.


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## Backsnack (Aug 16, 2019)

lewis said:


> @Backsnack check out the Laney Ironheart studio.
> Way more features, way more bedroom friendly and way more portable. Reamps, got a attenuator for cranked tubes but bedroom friendly volume.
> 
> Its an absolutely sick product for home use and will do everything you want


I will look at that!


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## narad (Aug 17, 2019)

Poor man's Super Kraken? Sounds like you're describing the Super Kraken..yess yesss hhmm hmmm hmmm


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## Backsnack (Aug 17, 2019)

laxu said:


> Wattage definitely matters. Meaning that higher wattage is better if you play heavier stuff. My Bogner goes between 15/23/30/45W and the full 45W has the best low end response by far. It stays tighter and bolder than the lower power settings.
> 
> If the Super Kraken is anything like the lunchbox Kraken then it has a pretty awful master volume. Through the Victory 4x12 I measured nearly 100 dB @ 1m when the amp was on 1. That doesn't mean it's a super loud amp, it just means it has a completely stupid volume control taper where all the volume comes in right away. By comparison my Bogner on 1 is probably something super low like 60-70 dB @ 1m despite being about the same power and to reach 100 dB I have to turn it to somewhere around 11 o'clock. That allows for a lot more control over low volume.
> 
> ...


Also looking at this


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## Backsnack (Aug 17, 2019)

Well this thread keeps on giving ... so many other options to explore.


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## FILTHnFEAR (Aug 17, 2019)

I'd go for a 5153 with the concentric pots in your position.

Does bedroom volume very well, 3 channels, nice cleans, can get loud if the need arises, has a headphone out IIRC.

I really liked that amp when I played it.


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## Backsnack (Aug 18, 2019)

DudeManBrother said:


> EL84’s don’t produce as much low end as the big glass; which is great for certain applications. Most low tuned guitars suffer from too much low end anyways.
> 
> The MT15 is voiced with an emphasis in the upper mids and treble. This makes the perceived volume much louder than an actual dB reading would indicate. It also helps the perceived balance the low end.
> 
> ...


Good point on the headroom.

The V4 Kraken "pedal" is the actual preamp section of a Kraken amp, shoved into a pedal form factor, using an unusual type of compact tube. It's not a 12AX7. Victory found this giant surplus of NOS army issue tubes that weren't even used for audio originally, then sourced them for all of their V4 series. The V4 pedals all have a 3 position adjustable bright switch for those reasons you stated: to help match the tone to the amp it's running into, or if you have a particularly bright/dark guitar or preamp if you don't have an effects loop.

The V4 pedals area ideally designed to be used in the effects loop so they take over your amp's front end entirely. You run all your modulation effects after it in the chain.


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## Backsnack (Aug 18, 2019)

FILTHnFEAR said:


> I'd go for a 5153 with the concentric pots in your position.
> 
> Does bedroom volume very well, 3 channels, nice cleans, can get loud if the need arises, has a headphone out IIRC.
> 
> I really liked that amp when I played it.


Those don't seem to be current production models anymore? All I see are 6505 variations, Invective, Vypyr, etc.


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## The Thing Upstairs (Aug 18, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> Those don't seem to be current production models anymore? All I see are 6505 variations, Invective, Vypyr, etc.



All the amps you listed are made by Peavey. The 5153 @FILTHnFEAR was referring to is made by EVH (part of fender).

http://evhgear.com/gear/amps/5150iii-50w-6l6-head-ivory-120v/

Edit - it’s an awesome amp - highly recommended.


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## Elric (Aug 18, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> Good point on the headroom.
> 
> The V4 Kraken "pedal" is the actual preamp section of a Kraken amp, shoved into a pedal form factor, using an unusual type of compact tube. It's not a 12AX7. Victory found this giant surplus of NOS army issue tubes that weren't even used for audio originally, then sourced them for all of their V4 series. The V4 pedals all have a 3 position adjustable bright switch for those reasons you stated: to help match the tone to the amp it's running into, or if you have a particularly bright/dark guitar or preamp if you don't have an effects loop.
> 
> The V4 pedals area ideally designed to be used in the effects loop so they take over your amp's front end entirely. You run all your modulation effects after it in the chain.


Cool idea. Those preamps are interesting for sure. That said, technically it is not *exactly* the same as the amp’s preamp because those are not the same tubes. How much of sound difference that makes is anyone’s guess.


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## Backsnack (Aug 18, 2019)

Elric said:


> Cool idea. Those preamps are interesting for sure. That said, technically it is not *exactly* the same as the amp’s preamp because those are not the same tubes. How much of sound difference that makes is anyone’s guess.


There’s a video on Victory’s website where they plug it 4CM into a Hot Rod Deluxe. Fairly difficult to tell a difference between that and the regular Kraken head.


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## Walter W. (Aug 18, 2019)

The MT15 sounds pretty heavy


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## Meeotch (Aug 18, 2019)

Man, I hear ya. I've been interested in both the Super Kraken and the pedal version for a while now. But seriously, based on your wants and needs, look no further than a 5150 III 50w. Version 2 with the concentric pots can be found mint for $800. 3 channels and sounds killer at home volumes. 

The MT15 is probably the best value for a stand-alone metal tube amp, but for the full package (midi, resonance/presence, headphone out, switchable loop, etc) the EVH cannot be beat. Add the Kraken pedal down the road if you want more tonal flavors in the future.


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## Hollowway (Aug 19, 2019)

Late to the party here, but I'd also say just get the super kraken. I've been down the "poor mans..." thing before, and it never satisfies. I don't play in a band anymore, and wanted a Fryette UL. I couldn't rationalize the purchase, so got a CL50. But, after years of going around and around online, trying to figure out if I really had enough of the tone, I finally bought a UL. If you found out the pedal version gave you 99% of what the actual Super Kraken gave you, my guess is you will still pine for the real deal.


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## Backsnack (Aug 19, 2019)

Walter W. said:


> The MT15 sounds pretty heavy



Well he says it right in the video. The cut to 7 watts hardly makes a dent in the crazy volume. He didn't even turn it up past 9 o'clock.


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## alekosh (Aug 19, 2019)

The mt15 route is what i did. Super happy


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 19, 2019)

Do NOT get a Super Kraken.

Don’t get me wrong, it is a phenomenal amp but it is definitely not bedroom friendly. At least not without some assistance. I’ve been able to cut the volume with a volume pedal in the loop which does work fairly well. Outside that, you’d want some kind of real attenuator—I’m considering the Boss TAE. That’s expensive though.

If I was going the on-a-budget route, I might actually just use my Boss Nextone and the Kraken preamp. The Nextone has excellent cleans and is great at low volume. It actually has a very good drive channel too. I have mine setup with an AMT P2. I’d say it is a budget SK like that.


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## Backsnack (Aug 19, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Do NOT get a Super Kraken.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, it is a phenomenal amp but it is definitely not bedroom friendly. At least not without some assistance. I’ve been able to cut the volume with a volume pedal in the loop which does work fairly well. Outside that, you’d want some kind of real attenuator—I’m considering the Boss TAE. That’s expensive though.
> 
> If I was going the on-a-budget route, I might actually just use my Boss Nextone and the Kraken preamp. The Nextone has excellent cleans and is great at low volume. It actually has a very good drive channel too. I have mine setup with an AMT P2. I’d say it is a budget SK like that.


Your ears must have been burning. I was thinking sending you a PM to ask you this exact question! This weekend I remembered your NAD thread from a few months ago. (“Wait, some dude with a Deadpool avatar wrote about it ...”)


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## Backsnack (Aug 19, 2019)

@Deadpool_25

It’s too bad Boss doesn’t have a Nextone head yet ... maybe soon?


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 19, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> @Deadpool_25
> 
> It’s too bad Boss doesn’t have a Nextone head yet ... maybe soon?



Yeah that would be cool. I have the Nextone Artist and I’m sure I could put it in a headshell pretty easily. Good idea. You should do that.


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## Backsnack (Aug 19, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah that would be cool. I have the Nextone Artist and I’m sure I could put it in a headshell pretty easily. Good idea. You should do that.


The Nextone series looks really interesting. Did you compare it to a Katana before you bought one?


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 19, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> The Nextone series looks really interesting. Did you compare it to a Katana before you bought one?



Yeah I actually had a Katana 100 combo and dumped it for the Nextone. The Nextone sounds way better to my ears. The Katana is a very good amp...for the money. A great value. The Nextone is a very good amp. Period.


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## sharedEQ (Aug 19, 2019)

Nick said:


> Someone said it earlier the wattage isn't your issue, its the amp master volume control that makes or breaks tubes in a bedroom setup.


If thats true, the solution to make any amp bedroom friendly is to get an MXR 10-band eq, run the master on 5, and use the eq pedal in the loop to reduce the output gain and tweak the frequencies to make it sound better at low volume.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 19, 2019)

sharedEQ said:


> If thats true, the solution to make any amp bedroom friendly is to get an MXR 10-band eq, run the master on 5, and use the eq pedal in the loop to reduce the output gain and tweak the frequencies to make it sound better at low volume.



Yeah, that does work pretty well actually. Specific to this thread, it works well with the Super Kraken. However, I didn’t like using just the EQ pedal, but I don’t remember why now. I’ll have to check it again.


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## Meeotch (Aug 19, 2019)

sharedEQ said:


> If thats true, the solution to make any amp bedroom friendly is to get an MXR 10-band eq, run the master on 5, and use the eq pedal in the loop to reduce the output gain and tweak the frequencies to make it sound better at low volume.



Except that doesn't work quite the same as a MV since you are still pre power section. All it's doing is giving you a bigger sweep on the MV knob. The reason attenuators are so popular is because they strive to capture the complete tone of a cranked amp at lower volumes (but IME it's always a compromise). 

Ultimately, the MV dictates how bedroom friendly an amp can be. It's one of the most important features I look at when amp shopping! Luckily in modern times, it isn't too hard to find quality MV's.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 19, 2019)

That’s kinda true but with a lot of amps these days, they seem to be getting Tone from the Preamp and not so much the power amp. If you don’t get your Mv above around 10:00 anyway, a volume pedal and/or EQ in the loop probably won’t be too different than a budget attenuator, no?


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## laxu (Aug 20, 2019)

sharedEQ said:


> If thats true, the solution to make any amp bedroom friendly is to get an MXR 10-band eq, run the master on 5, and use the eq pedal in the loop to reduce the output gain and tweak the frequencies to make it sound better at low volume.



That does actually work quite well on amps that have horrible master volume tapers. Victory Kraken/Super Kraken and PRS MT15 would be perfect candidates for using a solution like that. You know the type, you put it on 0.5 and it's 100 dB already and to go lower you need to have surgical precision when turning the knob, effectively making the master volume useless at lower volumes.

Attenuators to me are not worth buying unless you are willing to put the money down for the top tier units like the Fryette PS2 or Boss TAE that retain both the sound and feel of the amp being attenuated. If you don't care that the cheaper attenuators will severely dull your high end and make the amp feel flat then go ahead, buy that cheap Bugera or Jet City etc.

People put way too much emphasis on "cranked" amp tone when really the magic is _volume_. It sounds better because it's louder and most of you play modern high gain amps that don't benefit from cranking them beyond the effects of volume itself on how we hear them.


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## Meeotch (Aug 20, 2019)

There are some blanket statements being made here, but generally I agree. Attenuators are most valuable with NMV amplifiers where gain and volume are directly linked. I've tried true attenuators like the Rivera Rock Crusher, and when used with an amp with a good MV it's never a better option for volume reduction. A lot of players are finding that a reamper like the Fryette Power Station does a much better job at retaining the tone of a cranked amp.

Everyone knows how important the preamp section is in a modern high gain amp, but it is a misconception that dismisses the role of the power section in tone shaping. The volume pedal in the loop trick can be effective at widening the MV sweep as mentioned, but it does not take the place of a good MV post power section. Obviously in the end it's up to the player to decide what sounds good!


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 20, 2019)

I definitely agree that a good MV is the best option but for amps that don’t have a great MV (like the SK) you end up looking at other options. EQ pedal and/or volume pedal in the loop or an attenuator. The question is which is the best option for each person. I’m considering the Boss TAE but still weighing options.


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## efiltsohg (Aug 20, 2019)

volume pedal in the loop is the same as a master volume just with potentially more usable taper


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## Backsnack (Aug 20, 2019)

@Deadpool_25 

The reviews for the Nextone seem to be somewhat mixed. A handful of generally positive reviews, but also some that are confused by where the amp fits in terms of target market/price point, and that the different power sections don’t make too much of a difference in the tone. Some folks also seem to not like the overall sound of the drive channel, despite the different power amp voicings.

What’s your take on it? I just watched the Anderton’s blind comparison video of it to 4 different tube amps. I was wrong/picked the Boss as the preferred sound 3/4 times, lol.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 20, 2019)

I went into Sam Ash to try a couple Boss pedals (was looking into the RV-6 and then maybe a Metalzone for funsies). As I sat at the little Boss setup I plugged the guitar in (Players Tele, like one I have) and was like...”wtf is this amp? It sounds great.” I checked and it was the Nextone which I’d previously had no interest in at all. I played it for probably 30 minutes that time.

Later I went back and tried a few other guitars through it and really liked it. I brought it home that day.

I was confused by it at first as well, before playing it. I thought it was just maybe a Katana with a different twist that might sound a tiny bit better and had a lot less sounds in it. That’s not the case at all though. It seems to be a completely different animal. It sounds much better to me, though it obviously doesn’t have anywhere near the versatility.

The price point is much higher than the Katana (deservedly). That does put it in competition with some tube amps which is, I believe, why people get confused. But I think about it like this: what tube amp would I rather have at that price? For me, the answer is none—not for doing the job I’m asking the Nextone to do. And just on clean tone and headroom alone, I like it at least as much as the amps people mention when saying, “for that price you could get a ____.”

I keep mine on EL-34. The other settings make a subtle but noticeable difference. I’m not sure I could put it into words without sitting in front of the amp and trying to do so.

Definitely worth trying out if you can.

I like the drive channel though it’s not quite as good as the clean. I cranked the gain and though...hmmm. That’s better than I expected.

This is kinda my poor man’s SK


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## Backsnack (Aug 20, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I went into Sam Ash to try a couple Boss pedals (was looking into the RV-6 and then maybe a Metalzone for funsies). As I sat at the little Boss setup I plugged the guitar in (Players Tele, like one I have) and was like...”wtf is this amp? It sounds great.” I checked and it was the Nextone which I’d previously had no interest in at all. I played it for probably 30 minutes that time.
> 
> Later I went back and tried a few other guitars through it and really liked it. I brought it home that day.
> 
> ...


Nice rig! Very clean setup.


Speaking of clean channels ... Skip to 3:00 because timestamps don't work on embeds on this forum. Durrrr.




What are you "asking" the Nextone to do that other amps can't do?


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 20, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> Nice rig! Very clean setup.



Thanks man. It’s a fun little setup.



> What are you "asking" the Nextone to do that other amps can't do?



Nothing at all. Note that I never said it did something unique. 

It sits next to the bed as my “b” rig so I’ll be more apt to practice than not. When roommates are home, I’d typically want to practice at very low volumes. It’s great for that. When they’re not home and the neighbors are outta town, I might want to crank it up and play at almost painfully loud levels. Assuming I don’t just fire up the “a” rig, the Nextone setup is great for that too. If I want to go to a friend’s house, it’s relatively light. I like that is has an FX loop. I think it looks pretty good. It’s super simple. I like that with this little, simple rig I could work on jazz, blues, rock, metal...anything at all really, and have it sound good and “appropriate” for the genre. And it was relatively cheap...remember, it’s just the b rig.

I’m sure other amps could do most or even all of those just as well, but I haven’t found any that I like any better.


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## Backsnack (Aug 20, 2019)

Didn't expect this thread to hit 4 pages, lmao.


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## Backsnack (Aug 21, 2019)

@DudeManBrother @Deadpool_25


Maybe I was onto something with my original idea? Check the latest vid from Andertons. 



What this video also makes me realize is that I completely forgot about Blackstar as an option. Time to get back to Guitar Center and go demo some things.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 21, 2019)

Funny, looking back I realize I didn’t actually say I thought your original idea would be fine...and it probably would be great. I just mentioned what I did as another idea/option.


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## Backsnack (Aug 21, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Funny, looking back I realize I didn’t actually say I thought your original idea would be fine...and it probably would be great. I just mentioned what I did as another idea/option.


It's all good. There are plenty of good alternative ideas in here as well. 

We are really spoiled for choice these days. The majority of budget options that were around when I started playing guitar were hot garbage compared to what's available now.


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## ATRguitar91 (Aug 22, 2019)

Bentaycanada said:


> I’m sorry, but surely a poor mans Kraken is the Victory Kraken preamp pedal into a power amp pedal, like an EHX 44 Magnum or Mooer Baby Bomb?


Came here to say this. Although your idea sounds good, and the Peavey Mini head sounds like it has a lot of functionality.

Seems like the Kraken preamp pedal is fairly versatile on its own, and a pedal power amp like the Quilter MicroBlock will have an okayish clean tone. 

The Microblock has a headphone out too but it doesn't sound too good with high gain. This setup would do whisper quiet to stage volume easily, and be cheaper assuming you grab a cab locally.


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## Backsnack (Aug 22, 2019)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Came here to say this. Although your idea sounds good, and the Peavey Mini head sounds like it has a lot of functionality.
> 
> Seems like the Kraken preamp pedal is fairly versatile on its own, and a pedal power amp like the Quilter MicroBlock will have an okayish clean tone.
> 
> The Microblock has a headphone out too but it doesn't sound too good with high gain. This setup would do whisper quiet to stage volume easily, and be cheaper assuming you grab a cab locally.


The aim of this rig idea was to get a good-sounding clean channel as well. If the Quilter would kinda fall apart under high gain, then ... meh. However, I can see where you're going with this: modular pedal preamps with a power amp. Going the all tube route with this setup seems to get a bit spendy, and I'd lose the flexibility of features the Peavey has onboard. The headphone out, internal loadbox/speaker defeat, and adjustable power soak are things I would definitely use.

If I wanted to go to the affordable solid state route, I'd be more inclined to grab a Boss Katana or a used Nextone that @Deadpool_25 mentioned earlier.


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## ATRguitar91 (Aug 22, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> If the Quilter would kinda fall apart under high gain, then ... meh


I was just referring to the headphone out not sounding good with high gain, it sounds great with high gain setup normally into a cab. As far as cleans I'm not really big a clean guy so they work for me, but you could add in whatever preamp for cleans you prefer. The clean tone isn't as dry as something like a Rocktron Velocity.



Backsnack said:


> The headphone out, internal loadbox/speaker defeat, and adjustable power soak are things I would definitely use.


Those are all useful for sure, but a pedal preamp/power amp essentially has all of those built in. The MicroBlock has a headphone out, but if it doesn't meet your standards I just use a Zoom G1on ($50 new) or VST's if I need headphones. You wouldn't need an internal loadbox/speaker defeat with the modular setup because you can just run the preamp directly into an interface or whatever. And a power soak isn't necessary because any solid state power amp I've heard sounds great at super low volumes. If you wanted to get crazy versatile with it, you could grab something like an HX Stomp or the aforementioned Zoom for your cleans, mid gains, effects, and any headphone or recording stuff you want to do.

I used a Peavey Vypyr in my apartment for a long time and it did the job, but ultimately the high gain wasn't doing it for me once I got my hands on some nice preamp pedals. Like I said, the setup you've outlined would probably be awesome and it makes a lot of sense from a functional standpoint, I'm just a huge advocate for the modular preamp/poweramp setup so I can't help but spread the word. I've got two of em in my house and I don't think I'll ever go back. If the Kraken tone is the one you want, I'd cut out the middle man.


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## Backsnack (Aug 22, 2019)

ATRguitar91 said:


> I was just referring to the headphone out not sounding good with high gain, it sounds great with high gain setup normally into a cab. As far as cleans I'm not really big a clean guy so they work for me, but you could add in whatever preamp for cleans you prefer. The clean tone isn't as dry as something like a Rocktron Velocity.
> 
> 
> Those are all useful for sure, but a pedal preamp/power amp essentially has all of those built in. The MicroBlock has a headphone out, but if it doesn't meet your standards I just use a Zoom G1on ($50 new) or VST's if I need headphones. You wouldn't need an internal loadbox/speaker defeat with the modular setup because you can just run the preamp directly into an interface or whatever. And a power soak isn't necessary because any solid state power amp I've heard sounds great at super low volumes. If you wanted to get crazy versatile with it, you could grab something like an HX Stomp or the aforementioned Zoom for your cleans, mid gains, effects, and any headphone or recording stuff you want to do.
> ...


I could just grab a Victory Countess for the cleans, which would also add an extra drive channel for more options.

Choices, choices ....


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 22, 2019)

I just ordered a Boss TAE. Looking forward to trying that with the SK.


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## Backsnack (Aug 23, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I just ordered a Boss TAE. Looking forward to trying that with the SK.


Looking forward to your next thread on that.


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## Deadpool_25 (Aug 23, 2019)

I’ll just update the SK thread 

Hm. Then again, I’ll probably be trying it with the Vibrolux too, so maybe a TAE thread _is_ in order....lol


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## Backsnack (Aug 23, 2019)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I’ll just update the SK thread
> 
> Hm. Then again, I’ll probably be trying it with the Vibrolux too, so maybe a TAE thread _is_ in order....lol


So what's the prefix for that? NLBD (New Load Box Day)?


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## Backsnack (Aug 23, 2019)

@ATRguitar91 

Speaking of power amps: looks someone is selling a Mooer Tube Engine for pretty cheap on Reverb.

https://reverb.com/item/26855207-15-off-sale-mooer-tube-engine-all-tube-20w-power-amp

I'm not quite ready to snag all this gear yet, so I don't mind posting this here in case someone else is looking to grab a good deal.


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## A-Branger (Sep 8, 2019)

late to the party here, but OP your original idea has been my #1 route since I discover the kraken pedal at NAMM. run it trouhg the Peavey MH-20 classic to ahve a really good cleans, and have the Krajen take over the dirt, that plus the HelixFX board for delay/reverb/overdrive stuff and also to control the whole righ with a one step button instead of tap-dancing 

I tried the Peavey last year at NAMM and it was superb on the cleans (I still want to try it on store with less noise around), BUT, they had also the Invective MH too. The cleans wanst as creamy as the classic head (maybe the cab had something to do too?), but, it comes with a really good dirt, so at the end of the day its all that I want in one head only with the added bonus of having presence/resonance controls.... So its way cheaper, only trouble is the lack of a master volume knob, and whatever issues they have that they arent hitting the stores yet (I think it still a issue?).... so that could be another option for you.

but Im still in the KRaken pedal+Classic Peavy MH20


also dont remmeber if it was posted before, but heres an A/B comparo of the KRaken pedal vs head..... a tiiiiny difference between the two, but (for me) not enough to justify the extra $$$$$ of the head


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## Backsnack (Sep 8, 2019)

A-Branger said:


> late to the party here, but OP your original idea has been my #1 route since I discover the kraken pedal at NAMM. run it trouhg the Peavey MH-20 classic to ahve a really good cleans, and have the Krajen take over the dirt, that plus the HelixFX board for delay/reverb/overdrive stuff and also to control the whole righ with a one step button instead of tap-dancing
> 
> I tried the Peavey last year at NAMM and it was superb on the cleans (I still want to try it on store with less noise around), BUT, they had also the Invective MH too. The cleans wanst as creamy as the classic head (maybe the cab had something to do too?), but, it comes with a really good dirt, so at the end of the day its all that I want in one head only with the added bonus of having presence/resonance controls.... So its way cheaper, only trouble is the lack of a master volume knob, and whatever issues they have that they arent hitting the stores yet (I think it still a issue?).... so that could be another option for you.
> 
> ...



I don’t think there’s any lack of stock of MH20’s. They’ve been around since 2016 I think.

They can be ordered online, and I see used ones on Reverb. What I see at GC’s is they mostly stock combo amps on the showroom floor. The only heads my local one keeps on hand are the high end ones in the “boutique” room or whatever it is.

Do you use the drive channel on the Peavey as well? It seems like setting it as a low-mid gain channel would complement the Kraken well.


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## A-Branger (Sep 8, 2019)

Backsnack said:


> I don’t think there’s any lack of stock of MH20’s. They’ve been around since 2016 I think.
> 
> They can be ordered online, and I see used ones on Reverb. What I see at GC’s is they mostly stock combo amps on the showroom floor. The only heads my local one keeps on hand are the high end ones in the “boutique” room or whatever it is.
> 
> Do you use the drive channel on the Peavey as well? It seems like setting it as a low-mid gain channel would complement the Kraken well.



what I mean I dont see stock is for the Invective mini head20. I just checked sweetwater and its still on a "pre-order", the Peavey classic I do see it for sale in different sites tho. But the invective nope, as that could be a cheaper alternative to a Classic+kraken as it got similar distorsion and also has a good clean channel, plus DI out and a speaker defeat like the Classic20

andyeah it would be good to have the Classic with its second channel for a semi-clean tone too. But donno, I havent bought any, Im still too broke hahaha


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## Backsnack (Sep 8, 2019)

A-Branger said:


> what I mean I dont see stock is for the Invective mini head20. I just checked sweetwater and its still on a "pre-order", the Peavey classic I do see it for sale in different sites tho. But the invective nope, as that could be a cheaper alternative to a Classic+kraken as it got similar distorsion and also has a good clean channel, plus DI out and a speaker defeat like the Classic20
> 
> andyeah it would be good to have the Classic with its second channel for a semi-clean tone too. But donno, I havent bought any, Im still too broke hahaha


I haven’t yet either. My issue is space right now.

Hoping we can get out of this little condo soon.


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## Deadpool_25 (Oct 8, 2019)

I just ordered the Kraken pedal. Pretty much an impulse buy as per my usual.

I was trying different pedals in front of the California Tweed to see if I could get the basic sounds of the Super Kraken’s crunch and lead. I tried the AMT M2, Wampler Pantheon, and BEOD Deluxe (ch1) while trying for the SK crunch. I tried the AMT P2 and BEOD Deluxe (ch2) while trying for the SK lead tone.

The closest I got was the BEOD Deluxe. Didn’t quite nail it, or even get very close, but sounded in the ballpark which was very good on its own merits. And I was using very different cabs so I’m sure that was a huge part of the differences. Figured F it and ordered the Kraken preamp. I’ll be curious how that compares.


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## Deadpool_25 (Oct 10, 2019)

NPD coming soon. 
Spoiler alert: it’s fucking awesome.


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## Nicki (Oct 22, 2019)

If you like the Kraken sound, but don't need the 100w, just buy the lunchbox. Seems obvious to me .


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