# Invictus Guitars Revealed to be Idiots



## Stealthdjentstic

The Monolith INVICTUS GUITARS UK: VICTIMS OR VILLAINS? » The Monolith


I called it


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## baptizedinblood

When Vildhjarta declined their guitars, I knew something was up with Invictus.


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## drmosh

oh god what a shitshow.


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## Lorcan Ward

> Combining aesthetics, ergonomics and a touch of madness. Invictus Guitars aim to provide some of the best all-round handmade instruments available today.
> 
> Creating beautifully looking instruments without compromising on practicality, each unique hand crafted instrument is designed with you, the customer in mind. We take our years of experience, our strong focus on individuality and truly unique care to make the best guitars possible. Gareth's knowledge and forsight is beginning to make him one of the most celebrated Luthiers in today's new, exciting custom shop world.
> 
> Designed for working musicians, all Invictus Guitars have been fitted with modern innovations like carbon fibre neck re-enforcement to keep all necks straight and true no matter what conditions in which you use them. We fit LED markers, compensated nuts, trem systems, stainless steel frets, chambered bodies and all sorts of wierd and wonderful additions to the modern builder's arsenal.
> 
> The Invictus Guitars ethic pushes the essence of hand-crafted products to the limits. Methods that are almost entirely machined in today's world are still hand made. The Invictus Guitars history is founded upon the basis of retaining a personal relationship with the customer, the builder and most importantly- with you, us and the guitar itself. We dare to attempt what others will not, and always ask the question "well...why can't we?".



They may have exaggerated their guitars just a tad........


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## isispelican

it really annoys me that they got hyped so much just to turn out shitty


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## SkullCrusher

I had one built when he was called "rayne" guitars. The biggest bag of shit ever. For starters the delivery was about 6 months late. Miss cuts and poor finish galore.


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## BlackMastodon

Link doesn't seem to be working for me.  I had a feeling something was fishy with these guys though when people started pointing out their shitty joining on their tops.


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## SkullCrusher

I feel more sorry the chap that's just put a 'build' thread on.


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## Pikka Bird

@BlackMastodon: It's a crappy POS website (so perhaps they use the web equivalent of Invictus/Roter)... Scroll to the bottom and the article should appear.


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## Mwoit

Dang.


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## Draceius

> One year ago, I contacted Invictus guitars UK about a custom build. I had been talking to many other guitar companies, in hopes of having a custom 8 string built. I went with Invictus because not only did they give me a fair price (basically shipping and case), but they offered me the quickest turn around time. In my memory they said I would have the guitar in March, apparently to Invictus memory they said April. Regardless... It's now a year later and after being promised a guitar that is now 10 months overdue, I've given up thinking I'll ever receive it. Many friends in the industry have had the same thing happen to them. Whats worse, not everyone can get the same discount I was offered. Some people were paying thousands of dollars for guitars they either didn't receive, or received in an unplayable condition. For the second half of last year I was being told by the owner that I would receive it the following week, only to have him disappear for a couple more weeks. Then once I got a hold of him again, the cycle repeated. I'm over this. I've been advertised as an Invictus artist now for some time, but starting now I will NOT be associated with a company that runs their business similar to how a teenager would. To me this has felt like a total scam. I feel terrible that my advertising of the company could have in one way or another led to someone purchasing a guitar from them... because if that did happen, they most likely never got it.



^ Lee from Born of Osiris just posted this on his facebook, I believe shit has really hit the fan this time.


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## capoeiraesp

I think the story has been taken down.
Edit: working now.


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## PeteyG

The guy needs to look up the meaning of the words "Hate" and "Campaign", and then stop using them in reference to people making statements based upon factual evidence and personal experience.

Also can anyone else name me a profession where even half of the excuses detailed on this article would be accepted as reasons for comparatively short delays in work? I sure as hell can't think of any.


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## Danukenator

EDIT: NVM, give it a couple reloads and it will eventually work.


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## capoeiraesp

Just looking back over the Invictus thread. 

"Here's a bummer: I got an email today from Emperion Guitars (yes, that Emperion) and it appears they've resurrected themselves and their guitar line is now called Invictus...
EMPERION INVICTUS OVERVIEW | Emperion Revo Guitars
Thanks for brining this to my/our attention. I'm not able to access their site...but we shall investigate. As clarification- we definitely have nothing at all to do with Emperion.

If they attempt to encroach on our name-they WILL be met with force Also, expect some Born of Osiris pictures soon. Wa-hey."

Funny how these 2 companies ended up being the same story if quality guitars.


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## PeteyG

It's a relatively new site, and it's currently getting a lot of traffic, it's probably just having issues dealing with that.


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## skisgaar

baptizedinblood said:


> When Vildhjarta declined their guitars, I knew something was up with Invictus.



Yeah, when a band as *bad* as Vildhjarta think the instruments are bad, that's really a kicker


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## Danukenator

I find it ironic that that people burned by Invictus turned around and said "Hey, go support quality brands like Strictly 7 and Halo!"


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## Whammy

I just remember people giving out about the lower horn on the bodies because it looked worryingly fragile and thin. Invictus more or less said "it's grand".

Actually....


Nautilus said:


> It'll take a knock and then some. We walked guitars with horns just like that in to a door at full pace...we came off much worse that the guitar. The door didn't do so well either.



Maybe that's why some of the guitars look damaged


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## Lorcan Ward

They have also deleted their facebook page since they were getting a torrent of hateful comments from BOO fans.

I feel really sorry for the people who have builds with Invictus. Seeing pictures from that article is going to turn your stomach inside out when you have payed up to £1850/&#8364;2200 to have a custom built by them.

He stated that on facebook he would offer refunds but only when the guitar is completed and sold on.


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## mphsc

I could not be more thankful I sent my money to KxK instead.


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## Pikka Bird

Danukenator said:


> I find it ironic that that people burned by Invictus turned around and said "Hey, go support quality brands like Strictly 7 and Halo!"



I've been noticing the Halo irony too in a number of threads lately, and I know some people here seem to think there's reason to dislike S7 as well, but I wasn't around when they apparently had dire issues. What was the problem (other than oceanic Floyd routes)?


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## bulb

Haha it even mentions Nolly and myself in the article.

Funny enough we didn't even have a "hate campaign" going so much as we honestly gave our opinions on the guitars when people came to us, much as we would do with any other brand, positive or negative.

They tried to send me a guitar, but I was bothered by the issues I saw in the pics alone so I declined and told them that perhaps if I came across one in the future I would give it an honest test drive (which obviously never happened).

Gareth actually confronted me and asked that I tell him exactly what was wrong with what I saw. I sent him a long and comprehensive response that Nolly and I wrote using HIS OWN PICTURES that were proudly posted on his FB and showed him everything that was wrong with the guitars. It should be noted that as long as this response was, it was still just the tip of the iceberg. 
I never heard back from him after that.

We believe in honest work, and if we see people paying serious money for what is essentially a scam from someone claiming to be an artisan and a luthier, then we will speak against it when people ask so that they can be aware as well and not get scammed. We wouldn't go out of our way to make a fuss about it, because frankly it was none of our business, but we wouldn't hold back either if people are asking us our honest opinion.


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## Pikka Bird

^Well, you should've kept your hatemongering asses out of it, you were clearly in the wrong to bring such esoteric concepts as "honesty" into the game.


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## redstone

'nough said


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## Kiwimetal101

I thought it was already known they were idiots??


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## Khoi

it's amazing how much this story mirrors the BRJ situation... hopefully that won't be the case, but I couldn't help but to see parallels.


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## Navid

Those picture hurt my eyes.
My first build was better.


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## anomynous

Like how it says the dude from Hacktivist praises them, and that guy supposedly stole money from a guy on here.


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## KultureDekay

not trying to side-track the whole thread, but how is the situation with Invictus parallel with BRJ? Not a big fan of BRJ, as far as I know, they make quality instrument, but takes forever to be made. 

ADDED: I'm almost 100% clueless about BRJ, but I'd like to know the issues with them.


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## capoeiraesp

^ I think BRJ has a bit more credit to his name than this mob.

Anyone got pics of that flame maple top with the huge gap?


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## MetalDaze

redstone said:


> 'nough said


 


Dat spalt!


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## Rook

Here's the article as that site's basically screwed. A couple of pics missing cos I can only post 20, but I omitted duplicates or similar pics.



www.themonolith.com said:


> A few months back my good friend Aaron Marshall (of Intervals fame) told me about a company called Invictus Guitars UK that had found themselves at the center of a growing controversy with regards to their custom guitar builds. Allegedly, they&#8217;d been taking orders and building a reputation through some very public band endorsements and attractive imagery, stirring a buzz in the music world and raking in a tidy sum of money from musicians interested in getting their hands on a custom guitar. Unfortunately, by many accounts they seemed to hit somewhat of a snag with regards to actually completing those builds and sending out the finished products, a problem that struck a lot of people as fairly severe.
> At first, I made the somewhat sophomoric decision to simply troll their Facebook page posing acerbic questions regarding dissatisfied customers and making admittedly incendiary statements, basically just fanning the flames of something I&#8217;d hardly begun to fully understand. But the novelty of that wore of fairly quickly, and I was almost immediately blocked from further posts on their page, and all my witty jabs were instantly removed like so many dubious growths on Invictus&#8217; hairy back.
> Undaunted, I proceeded to shit-talk them from the fringe of relevance on the pretense of hearsay alone, until coming to the realization that I&#8217;ve actually got a bit of a voice here at The Monolith, and rather than continuing to idly prod at their ribcages with the ten-foot-pole of juvenile Facebook insults, I could actually do some research and take a shot at legitimately investigating the situation from a more professional standpoint.
> I make these confessions in the interest of showing my hand. At the outset of my involvement in this situation, I hardly took it seriously, and held blatant biases based on second hand accounts, forming my own opinions and waging attacks without bothering to check my facts. This approach is immature and unfair, and I make no effort to defend that behaviour. Instead, I&#8217;ve attempted to make reparations here by gathering as much impartial information from as many diverse sources as possible, in the interest of painting a clearer picture of the company, and the situation they&#8217;ve found themselves in.
> So with that I give my word to Invictus&#8217; supporters and detractors alike that this will not be under any circumstances be a witch hunt, devised for the sole purpose of slandering a company and their work. On the other side of the coin, I won&#8217;t shy away from exposing any ugly facts when I find them verified, nor will I pull any punches when they are warranted. The majority of this piece however, will let my sources speak for themselves, in the interest of delivering the pure, undiluted truth of the matter.
> So without further ado, let&#8217;s get our spelunking gear on and prepare to rappel into this bottomless chasm. Ladies and gentlemen, this is;
> Invictus Guitars UK: Villains or Victims?
> Invictus Guitars UK is a custom guitar company, obviously based in the UK, that boasts some very impressive pictures of guitars on their website. So impressive, in fact, that they quickly made a bit of a name for themselves throughout the industry, perking up the ears of aficionados worldwide with their attractive finishes and novel body shapes. As a result, within months of their arrival on the scene, Invictus were inundated with orders from all over the world from established musicians and interested amateurs alike. Sounds awesome, right? Indeed it did &#8211; at first.
> Everything was going swimmingly until somewhere along the line, some people noticed that instead of the guitars they had ordered, they were instead receiving a lot of excuses and stalling from the folks at Invictus. It was met with goodwill and patience at the beginning, but quickly began to wear thin as customers grew more agitated with time. A problem with production here, a postponed shipping date there, these were things that happened all the time with any business, and a few bumps in the road for a relatively new company is excusable. Most folks are happy to take things as they come and are prepared to deal with a few minor setbacks here and there.
> Unfortunately, things only got more complicated from then on. While some got their guitars right away and were thoroughly satisfied with the quality, others still were left in the cold, having already paid for an instrument and being repeatedly told they would have to wait longer, and longer, and longer. One of those people happened to be Billy Anderson of Long Island based band Ever Forthright, who along with fellow band guitarist Nick Llerandi, had ordered instruments from Invictus. Billy took the time to compose the following comprehensive account of their experiences dealing with the company:
> First of all, we are not writing this just to bash this company. We&#8217;ve tried all we can from nice civil talks to legal threats to have this situation solved but none of our efforts have worked, so this is the last thing we can do. We just don&#8217;t want this happening to anyone else.
> Invicdick guitars: A horror story by Ever Forthright
> Nick and I were seeking guitar endorsements after releasing the first Ever Forthright CD because we were sick of playing our mediocre Agile guitars. We had offers from companies like Mayones, Halo, Novax, etc. We decided to go with Invictus Guitars UK since they had a few notable artists endorsing the guitars and they had offered us the best deal &#8211; pay for the hardware and the rest is free as long as we promote their guitars. It came out to £550 for each of the guitar. This seemed like a great deal&#8230;at first.
> We had spoken to Garth, the owner, and finalized our specs and details quickly. The guitars were paid for on February 11th, and our turnaround time was expected to be 3-4 months. After a few emails we were told that the builds were supposed to start February 20th, but after a few run around and non-answered emails we were told that the builds started March 5th and that the estimated completion date would be 4 months later, which would be on June 5th.
> Around April 22nd Gareth sent us a picture of our neck blanks. We had to pick the one that we wanted&#8230;
> 
> *[Pic of neck blanks]*
> 
> We were told many times that we were going to receive pictures of our build early on in the process to show the progressions made. After bugging them for months, we finally received a picture of them. Here is the picture from May 23rd captioned &#8220;The Ever Forthright builds have begun&#8221;.
> 
> *[Pic of vaguely started guitars]*
> 
> &#8230; three months after the build started I thought we&#8217;d have something more than a neck blank laying on top of a piece of wood that had a guitar body shape drawn on it.
> Every once and a while we&#8217;d have a chat with Gareth about the guitars and such and he&#8217;d always send us sob stories and excuses about everything that was happening with his company which caused him to slow down on his work. One time he even had the nerve to shit talk one of his customers because they couldn&#8217;t make up their mind about what they had wanted, he told us to &#8220;avoid him like the plague&#8221;. So professional.
> I noticed Lee McKinney from Born of Osiris had posted on their page asking what was up with his guitar because it has been a while since he was supposed to receive his guitar. I sent Lee a message and he told me what his situation was with Invictus. It turned out that he&#8217;s been waiting just like us with barely any communication, and whenever he did get a message, it was just chock full of excuses. He was waiting for his guitar to be finished since February with no sign of it being completed anytime soon.
> From time to time we&#8217;d check their Facebook page to see what was going on, he&#8217;d post a few pictures of things, but mostly pictures of this &#8220;studio&#8221; they were building in their workshop. Clearly they weren&#8217;t spending their time and money correctly.
> We had planned to use these guitars in a video shoot for &#8220;Lost In Our Escape&#8221; and had told them what the original shoot date was which was supposed to be in the first two weeks of June. They said that they would do their best to have them done on June 10th, Gareth wrote to us saying the guitars would need at least another 2 days of work to finish so he could send them overnight to us in time for the video. Fortunately the shoot for the video was rescheduled so they had more time to build the guitars.
> July 23rd came around and we got another email from Gareth saying that the guitars were ready to be shipped out. The day of the video shoot came around that weekend and we didn&#8217;t hear a word from anyone at Invictus Guitars. Nothing. We ended up shooting the video using Ibanez guitars.
> On August 3rd we were told again that the guitars &#8220;HAVE been assembled, tested, and have either been shipped or packed up for shipping.&#8221; Nick was also informed that the guitars would be in our hands on August 17th.
> On August 20th Myriad Records had sent an email to Invictus seeing what was going on. The response we got back was that the guitars would not be here on time for our tour with Intervals, which was on September 6th. Also the email contained a few pathetic excuses as to why the guitars weren&#8217;t done on time. I mean, not even done anywhere near on time. The excuses were as follows
> &#8220;&#8230;Our largest ever endorsees (Vildhjarta) launched an attack on us after their guitars were damaged in transit. The fallout caused a member of the band to leave and their manager to be stricken from the record label&#8217;s books.&#8220;
> &#8220;We&#8217;ve had customers from Gareth&#8217;s previous workplaces attack Invictus Guitars, over disputes they&#8217;ve had with products totally unrelated to Gareth at all.&#8221;
> &#8220;We&#8217;re currently in dispute with the band Periphery (whom I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re particularly aware of), who continue to unjustifiably attack and belittle our workshop. Both Misha and Adam continue to launch a hate campaign against our products &#8211; despite never having tried the guitars in person, and despite our numerous offers for them to at least TRY our guitars before slating them in a public forum.&#8221;
> &#8220;The organizers of the UK Tech Metal Festival are now refusing to amend our agreement, when we discovered they had cheated us out of thousands of pounds (GBP) to attend the festival. Money was never taken (or requested) by any other attending company&#8230;&#8221;
> &#8220;We have received threats of blackmail from anonymous person(s) demanding large sums of money.&#8221;
> Ok. So none of those situations really affect why the guitar was soooo fucking late. Vildhjarta and Periphery launched &#8220;hate campaigns&#8221; against your products? That is quite the hyperbole. Vildhjarta said they were no longer endorsing your guitars and the two members of Periphery had pointed out some flaws they noticed in the pictures on your site. That&#8217;s it. By this point we were pretty furious. It&#8217;s been nothing but excuses from every angle up until now.
> Soon after the tech fest, we saw a few posts online of a few members who tried Invictus guitars and thought they were &#8220;Abysmal&#8221;. Overall, people said they were terrible guitars. I hoped this wasn&#8217;t true.
> We eventually came across a luthier&#8217;s page who had gotten one of Gareth&#8217;s old builds (before it was known as Invictus) and it had pictures of all the shoddy work. It was just incredibly horrid. We had hoped ours wouldn&#8217;t come out the same way.
> 7 months later, September 5th rolls around and we were just about ready to leave for tour when the guitars finally showed up at Nick&#8217;s house. Up until this point I tried to force myself to believe all the rumors I had heard were false.
> First of all, the guitar was forced into the case it came in because the case was too small. Upon trying to play the guitar, I realized all my fears were true. It was undoubtedly the worst guitar I have ever touched in my life.
> Here&#8217;s a complete list of what was wrong with this thing. Some pictures too:
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> Sloppy job on nut mounting
> Nut popping off
> Sloppy job on headstock joint
> Missing Invictus logo
> Sloppy truss rod hole drilling
> No truss rod cover
> Crooked frets
> Uneven fret wire widths
> Unleveled fret wire heights
> Slanted fret wire
> Fret wire popping out of fret board
> Missing inlays on front of fret board
> Sloppy work where fret board meets body
> Sloppy / uneven inlays on side of fret board
> Guitar finish comes off where you touch the guitar on the body, neck, fret board
> Stripped screws on electronics cavity
> Uneven/sloppy carving job
> Bridge mounted in wrong place for scale length, unable to intonate.
> Bridge needs to be moved back over 1/4&#8221;, new holes for strings need to be drilled
> Neck length was built for 28&#8221; scale. I asked for 27.5
> Missing burned name in back of headstock
> Bridge base plate was gold colored, spray painted black. Saddles ripped off black paint
> String holes in back not straight.
> Action too high even when saddles at lowest height.
> Didn&#8217;t come with wood covered pickups
> Didn&#8217;t come with extra set of Invictus pickups
> Multiple styles on string holders used on back of guitar
> High E and low F# too close to edge of fret board, slips off
> Seriously, I&#8217;d rather rock a daisy rock guitar.
> It was clear that the builder didn&#8217;t know how to properly make a guitar. To send a guitar out in this shape is pathetic. It was clear why so many artists stopped using these guitars.
> I brought this thing on tour and tried to fix it but it was nearly impossible. After I told the owner at Invictus of all the problems, he agreed to pay all the fees to get it fixed up. I brought it to a local luthier who looked at it and instantly saw problems. He thought it may just need a setup and a fret re-dress. When I came back the next day to get the guitar, there was a note that said the guitar was much more work than anticipated, the bridge was not placed properly on the guitar and in addition to how far back he had already moved it, it needed to be moved back another ¼&#8221;. Basically new holes for the strings would have to be drilled. I ordered a 27.5&#8221; scale, but the guitar was built for something like 28&#8221;, but he just put the bridge 27.5&#8221; from the nut.
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> Playing this guitar was extremely uncomfortable and gave me cramps/pains. My Schecter Hellraiser special was much more comfortable. I sold the guitar as close to 1/3 of Invictus&#8217;s full price, selling it for their full price of about $3,000 was not fair at all.
> We talked to Gareth on September 27th and he agreed to refund us back the money for one of the guitar and pay the bill for the repairs made on the other. We haven&#8217;t seen anything since
> Pros
> Incredible wood selection
> Great general look (from afar)
> Sounded good
> The back of the guitar looked great
> Cons
> Everything else you could imagine.
> Today is Friday December 12th, 2012. Gareth still owes us over $1,200 USD for repair of the first guitar and for the guitar never sent. We&#8217;ve tried to be civil about this whole thing but we&#8217;re just so incredibly frustrated and pissed off. We just want our money back. I touched base with Lee McKinney yesterday and he still hasn&#8217;t heard a peep about his guitar. This is the worst experience dealing with a company ever. Know whom you&#8217;re dealing with, go support Strictly 7, Strandberg, Decibel, or a well-known custom guitar company.&#8221;
> After learning of this, we got in touch with Jaime Gamble, head of Myriad Records, the label to whom Ever Forthright are signed, for more information on the subject. He gave us a very similar recollection of the events:
> During the time of mine & Ever Forthright&#8217;s involvement with Invictus Guitars, it was nothing short of a catastrophe.
> There was a good team at Invictus which departed around the summer. They were helpful to us in the process of trying to actually figure out what was going on, but the actual blame falls with their luthier, Gareth Dickie.
> We knew that Lee from Born of Osiris hadn&#8217;t received his guitar when promised, and it was becoming more and more evident in my dialogues with Gareth that the same would happen to us. Another thing that stuck out in my mind was the Vildhjarta situation, and seeing the state of the guitars that Ever Forthright received, it was clear as day why Vildhjarta severed their ties.
> Billy sent me the contract that Invictus had sent to them, and their contract is simply put, a joke. It has no legal grounding whatsoever, and after conversations with an old member of Invictus, he had divulged to me that Gareth devised the contract.
> I had several conversations with Gareth that were just full of excuses and false promises, it became very tedious very quickly. We threatened legal action against Gareth, which will now proceed due to the monies lost, and to this date we still haven&#8217;t received a penny back.
> My best advice for anyone seeking a custom guitar, please do your research on the company, go to reputable companies such as Acacia, Strictly 7, Mayones, Halo or whomever you know is a reputable company. There are too many &#8216;luthiers&#8217; that will cut corners and deliver a product that is beyond unacceptable, such as Invictus.
> So far the evidence seems to be mounting against Invictus. These testimonials are painting a pretty incriminating picture, to be sure &#8211; but the feedback isn&#8217;t all bad. We got in touch with Timfy, guitarist for UK based band Hacktivist, who told quite a different story about the company. His statement is brief, but to the point;
> &#8220;Fantastic guitars! Well made from quality woods and resources! Those guys know what they are doing and deserve a way bigger rep than they have! I&#8217;m also just in stages of planning my second with them!&#8221;
> And the praise didn&#8217;t end there. A member of Aliases, who declined to identify themselves, commented via the bands Facebook account, offering this even more succinct statement:
> &#8220;Top guys and quality instruments.&#8221;
> These sentiments are, needless to say, completely adverse to those added by Ever Forthright and Myriad Records. How could one company have such remarkably polarized customers? Why were some left so dissatisfied while others seemed downright ecstatic about the products and services rendered by Invictus?
> It&#8217;s only fair to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that nobody of sound mind would deliberately trifle with the needs and expectations of their customer base, so I think it&#8217;s reasonable to assume that Invictus Guitars UK are well intentioned, but for whatever reason are unable to follow through with their order schedule, thus disappointing many expectant musicians who have placed their trust, and a considerable sum of their income, with them.
> This alone is not a legitimate reason to call shenanigans on them, as business deals often get delayed, and there are a multitude of factors that could explain why. What is less excusable, however, is how the manufacturer has apparently chosen to handle the completely warranted complaints following aforementioned delays. Judging by what we&#8217;ve learned here, they seem to have chosen not to handle them at all, but rather shirk responsibility and offer half-hearted excuses to bide time.
> Worse yet, when the orders were received, it has been alleged that in some cases the quality of the finished product left much to be desired. The laundry list of faults and flaws that Billy outlined above is enough to make any gear junkie cringe in horror.
> Following the trail in search of more perspective, we were led to a man named George Yiakoumi, who had designed Invictus&#8217; website, when asked to describe his experiences in dealing with the company, George relayed the following:
> &#8220;Basically the arrangement was that I&#8217;d make his website, and he&#8217;d make me an axe at low costs (hardware costs)
> This was like&#8230; I dunno last year? I forget. Anyway, after some time I get interested in finding out where he is on my guitar, and so I tried to message him on Facebook and when I did it turns out that he&#8217;s no longer &#8216;friends&#8217; with me on Facebook&#8230;
> I think to myself&#8230; well, that&#8217;s weird. Did he delete me? (Is he avoiding me?)
> So I ring the geezer up, &#8220;Gareth, how&#8217;s it goin&#8217;&#8221; &#8220;alright mate how are you&#8221; &#8220;I&#8217;m good, listen&#8230; where are we on my axe?&#8221; Apparently he says he&#8217;s not started as he&#8217;s got a few other guitars on the build from customers who actually paid&#8230; I said fair enough, when can I expect it then? He says he doesn&#8217;t know, his other luthier has fucked off and left him on his bill.
> &#8230;and that&#8217;s pretty much it, still not heard from him, and to be honest I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ll be getting it&#8230; and from what I&#8217;ve heard by other guitar players the guitar quality isn&#8217;t really worth it. anyway&#8230; he can have the site it&#8217;s not like it took me long, only a week of my life but I won&#8217;t be updating it or w/e, I&#8217;m out of it all till I hear back from him which will probably be never.&#8221;
> George was very passive about the situation and added afterwards that he wasn&#8217;t even really upset about it. He, as with all of my sources, was adamant about not wanting to throw stones at Invictus, but rather was content to let the truth speak for itself. What the truth seems to be saying is that the problem may not lie with Invictus Guitars on the whole, but rather with luthier Gareth Dickie, whose name has appeared in every negative account and complaint stated so far.
> Is this a case of a man who became overwhelmed with orders and was simply exasperated to the point of excuses, or even outright lies? Was Gareth in over his head and simply showing the strain in unfortunate ways? Or was this some sort of deliberate con to pass off shoddy workmanship and bad business dealings as quality instruments crafted by professionals? It seemed that the only place to find answers to those questions was the man from himself; Gareth Dickie.
> We reached out to Dickie via email, despite being told by many sources that doing so would be an exercise in futility. Predictably, he did not respond, even though we made it very clear in our message that we simply wanted to offer him a chance to give his side of the story. This article has been in stasis awaiting his reply, and he&#8217;s had ample time to send one. It seems rather damning that he would opt to remain silent when given an opening to lay it on the line and share his side of the story, a tactic which undoubtedly does him more harm than good.
> While waiting for a response that we had been assured was not coming, Billy Anderson brought it to our attention that Gareth had messaged him out of the blue recently, offering a plethora of excuses to explain away the ugly circumstances that surrounded his dealings with Ever Forthright. Billy agreed to let me publish the statement from Dickie in the interest of shedding a direct light on exactly how he carries himself professionally, and as it appears to be the closest thing to a statement we&#8217;ll be getting from Dickie, it will have to suffice to let Gareth speak for himself through the statement as follows:
> &#8220;Hi
> Sorry for the lack of contact I&#8217;m sure you might think I&#8217;m just ignoring you. I&#8217;ve had a very bad time since Matt left me. I&#8217;ve other builds to finish in a similar state etc and it&#8217;s had me on the ropes. On top of all that my grand father died on Christmas day with my uncle following a week later.
> I&#8217;ve also moved house over the festive period and I&#8217;m only now sorted with internet etc. I&#8217;m attending my grandfathers funeral this weekend.
> I&#8217;m sorry for everything and I&#8217;m sure I can sort something out to make it up to you. If you want my phone no its [omitted]. Feel free to call me between 10 and 6 any day.
> I hope this is okay.
> Thank you,
> Gareth Dickie&#8221;
> Okay, sympathy for deceased relatives aside, that entire message was little more than a passive brush-off. It&#8217;s obvious that this is a last ditch effort on Gareth&#8217;s part to milk as much pity as possible from Billy&#8217;s good nature. At this point it seems safe to say that the professional demeanor of Gareth Dickie casts an ugly shadow over the company he represents, and that the satisfaction of his customers is low on his list of priorities.
> It&#8217;s only sensible to assert that ordering a guitar from Invictus doesn&#8217;t seem like a good idea, as from what we&#8217;ve seen here the results are a gamble, at best. Rumours in circulation around social networks suggest that the company is already defunct, and that Gareth is grasping at straws as the water rushes in around him. This is no doubt unfortunate for him, but not entirely undeserved.
> It&#8217;s become clear that at the core of this situation is a man who was unprepared or unable to follow through with commitments he made to his customers, plain and simple. The brief and abrupt nature of the feedback from his supporters is overwhelmingly crushed by the detailed accounts of his failures from dissatisfied parties. Whether accidental or intentional, Invictus Guitars UK have dropped the ball.
> It has been promised to The Monolith&#8217;s sources that this investigation would be fair and unbiased, and we&#8217;ve taken measures to adhere to that as closely as possible. That being said, there is little doubt that Invictus Guitars are at fault for the disservices and failures described by their customers, and in spite of our incessant searching for a way to defend them, nearly every stone we&#8217;ve turned has exposed more dirt.
> Therefore, we have no other option but to recommend that any potential customers avoid dealing with Invictus completely, as the evidence of their inadequacy as both a business and a manufacturer is nothing short of overwhelming. There may well be legitimate reasons behind the delays in builds and shipping, as well as the flaws and discrepancies of the manufacturing process, but there is no defense for the blatantly flippant attitude taken by Gareth Dickie towards managing the situation and satisfying his customer base.
> Moreover, there is no excuse for shady and untrustworthy behaviour in the world of business, especially when so much trust and good faith is placed on the part of the builder. The fact that even while those who speak against him maintain decorum and class in their complaints, Dickie continues to slander and insult anyone who criticizes him without regard for how it makes him appear professionally says everything that needs to be said about the situation, and the company itself.
> For now we&#8217;ll have to leave it at that, but if you have any more information on the matter or simply want to relay a personal account of dealing with Invictus, be it positive or negative, we encourage you to describe your experience in the comments.
> For our part, The Monolith pledges to continue doing everything in our power to be an advocate of consumer awareness and corporate accountability, as well as bolstering an unbiased exchange of ideas, information and expression. With our vigilance, and that of our readers, we can do our part to ensure that companies like this one are assessed fairly and brought to justice where necessary in the interest of you, the consumer.



As that site's struggling a little, here's the entire article which is written by www.themonolith.com, this not my work all credit to them blah blah blah legal stuff.

Its impossible to read off theirs.

If you can't see the pics I'm probably still adding them in or their host is screwed 

I'm so completely unsurprised by this, what a joke.


----------



## capoeiraesp

All the obvious flaws aside, but what the fuck were they using for side-dot marker material?


----------



## redstone

Chewing gum


----------



## vampiregenocide

I've said this before, but I had a feeling from the beginning that these guys were dodgy. They built their company based entirely on hype, amassing a list of 'endorsed artists' (most of whom had yet to even try an instrument) and building this reputation very quickly, for essentially building cheapo Blackmachine copies. 

So as soon as builds started reaching people, and they sent them back, I was hardly surprised. A company should build their reputation based on building quality products, not being good at promoting, though to be honest Invictus even failed on that at the end of the day.


----------



## narad

Guys...Are we 100% sure this is an awful guitar and not a really well made guitar-shaped cake?


----------



## teleofseven

john browne doesn't touch his with a long stick, i hear.

addition: reading the article, i was actually experiencing pain in my chest. not kidding! that stuff was heavy. 
if i would have to go through all that myself, i would be hell bent on beating the living shit out of that guy!

it also makes me fearful. because when i build a guitar, a half-assed wont do for me! not even one with some minor flaws. it has to be perfect. 
i someday wanna be a luthier, so if i was to make a guitar with flaws on it, i could never forgive myself for sending a guitar to a customer
who paid big money on something that i made, and made poorly. 

i have the aim of one day building the highest quality guitars humanly possible. 

i can't even think of why people would start to build guitars without even being able to! and then claim that they're high quality! and people pay THOUSANDS to these fuckers.

it hurts to read something like this. i hope they reap every fucking coin out of that fuckers poket.


----------



## MonolithLeviathan

Hey guys, I'm the dude behind writing this article and I just wanted to apologize for all the problems with our server over the last few hours. The sudden influx of traffic crushed us and it just kept snowballing, which is awesome, but as a result we ended up getting time-out errors and horrible scrambled page problems, such as the ones mentioned already. Just wanted to let you all know the site is back up now and can be read without having to highlight the text.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Navid said:


> Those picture hurt my eyes.
> My first build was better.


Ditto, and I think a lot of people here can say the same. 

On topic: my god, those pictures are a horror show.  I can't even find the words to describe the lack of quality there.


----------



## capoeiraesp

^ yep and yep.


----------



## elq

> My best advice for anyone seeking a custom guitar, please do your research on the company, go to reputable companies such as ..., _*Halo*_ or whomever you know is a reputable company.


----------



## HOKENSTYFE

A shame. The wood choices look pretty good. Need to find out their wood supplier.


----------



## Khoi

KultureDekay said:


> not trying to side-track the whole thread, but how is the situation with Invictus parallel with BRJ? Not a big fan of BRJ, as far as I know, they make quality instrument, but takes forever to be made.
> 
> ADDED: I'm almost 100% clueless about BRJ, but I'd like to know the issues with them.



sure, BRJ does have (or had) a better reputation than Invictus, but it's slowly turning into an Invictus situation.

I've been waiting for my guitar for 2.5 years now. It's been paid in full since January 2012, when I was told it would be done. Still haven't heard anything about it, and nearly all communication has been cut off. I'm not the only one.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...ay-thread-only-updates-customers-ad-free.html

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/201175-rico-returns.html

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/212146-ngd-brj-custom-jekyll-828-a.html


----------



## Polythoral

I was soooo close to buying into the hype several months back, thank you SSO people for saving me back then. <3 I'm glad to know better these days.

I'm pretty sad though for some of the awesome people who ended up involved with Invictus, but not so much involved with the actual builds and that didn't know well what they were getting into, like Jiv and Matt.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Polythoral said:


> I was soooo close to buying into the hype several months back, thank you SSO people for saving me back then. <3 I'm glad to know better these days.
> 
> I'm pretty sad though for some of the awesome people who ended up involved with Invictus, but not so much involved with the actual builds and that didn't know well what they were getting into, like Jiv and Matt.



You mean the guys that hyped them up? His internet guys that were pimping him on SSO here (see user Nautilus)? Sorry but anyone claiming to have worked for him and not noticed the huge flaws is not to be trusted either, those flaws are so obvious even a beginner can see them. 

Here is one of Invictus's guys new venture:

https://www.facebook.com/EndarGuitars?fref=ts


Yeah...he learned from Invictus...so I would suggest staying far away!


----------



## RickSchneider

I'm interested to see what he produces to be honest. True at the fact people from here may be wary to deal with him, but maybe he left for a reason, to do things right?

Eh, some positive thinking never hurt anyone. With that said I'm not getting a custom from him


----------



## MaxOfMetal

ITT: Folks in small bands seeking awesome endorsements are surprised their <$1k customs are not Blackmachine killers. 

Really, was any of this at all a surprise? Notice the theme of everyone going for the ridiculous, nay too-good-to-be-true, deals getting bent over the barrel. 

I'm not saying that folks should always go with the most expensive, or the biggest fish in the pond, but at least consider for a second why something is so much cheaper. 

It's a bummer for the guys who got fucked, and even more so for those who shelled out top dollar. 

How many more have to get ripped off before folks decide that the newest, cheapest BM-copier might not be the best place to throw their limited funds at?


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Exactly, IMO, save up the extra $1000 or so and go with a real brand or buy from someone who has been building for a while and has a proven track record. 

Also a bit of a funny story....my friend and I walked into a local guitar store here with his b6 to try out a few amps and the guy asked us if that was in Invictus


----------



## Metalus

MaxOfMetal said:


> ITT: Folks in small bands seeking awesome endorsements are surprised their <$1k customs are not Blackmachine killers.
> 
> Really, was any of this at all a surprise? Notice the theme of everyone going for the ridiculous, nay too-good-to-be-true, deals getting bent over the barrel.
> 
> I'm not saying that folks should always go with the most expensive, or the biggest fish in the pond, but at least consider for a second why something is so much cheaper.
> 
> It's a bummer for the guys who got fucked, and even more so for those who shelled out top dollar.
> 
> How many more have to get ripped off before folks decide that the newest, cheapest BM-copier might not be the best place to throw their limited funds at?



This


----------



## Navid

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Also a bit of a funny story....my friend and I walked into a local guitar store here with his b6 to try out a few amps and the guy asked us if that was in Invictus


----------



## Lorcan Ward

I saw this on their FB just before the page got deleted.



> The Ever Forthright guitar was setup and checked before being shipped out. All I can offer after that are my apologies.







narad said:


> Guys...Are we 100% sure this is an awful guitar and not a really well made guitar-shaped cake?



Somethings seriously wrong when a guitar cake has better routing and fret crowning than a "Master built" custom guitar.






This whole situation is going to make it very hard on people who have outstanding orders. He could have 20-30 orders still left to build/complete?

If something sounds to good to be true well it usually is.


----------



## Polythoral

made me lol.



[email protected]: I guess I can't actually speak for Matt, because I think he did some of the actual luthiery work there and I never really talked to him, but I feel knowing Jiv (Nautilus/Endar Guitars dude) a bit that he couldn't have had a full grasp on the stuff happening. I feel they at least had some decent guitars made (given stuff like Leah and Pin getting them after having tried some), and this was around the time Jiv joined them, after trying some of their instruments and then ordering his in because he was happy with what he tried. They most likely had decently made examples to show people, then rushed commissioned builds, I imagine. 

Also note, Jiv was not doing luthiery really for Invictus, he basically existed to post updates and give out quotes. I know having had looked through the Invictus facebook photos on a few occasions (obviously you can't now) but there was pretty much never a shot with Jiv and any of the guitars together, I imagine he probably didn't spend too much time in the workshop and seeing the in progress stuff in person. He's also a lefty, so unless he wanted to test some upside-down I doubt he was a part of testing any. 

From what he's told me he did begin to realize things going downhill, especially with build times and such, and if you do check his post history on here, he did stop hyping during that time. His enthusiasm for plugging the brand just dropped extremely fast overall, aka, within like 2 months, then he just kinda disappeared, probably having already begun realizing things wrong. The only sketchy post is the one he did in the Vildjharta thread, though he technically did not try to justify anything in it, he simply offered to try to answer people's questions if they messaged him or whatnot.

He's always seemed like a really awesome and genuine person to me, and he's been taking the Endar stuff rather seriously, though obviously with only one prototype done (which he basically decided was not up to the level he wanted and is working on a second prototype now) I have no real judgement on it (though it certainly looks better than that Invictus, mirite?). I do on the other hand look forward to seeing more from him and hope that he does do well.

I'm sure you and most other people have already formed your opinions, just giving my two cents. *shrug*


----------



## Kiwimetal101

I just about about woke up the whole house laughing from that..


----------



## Whammy

HOKENSTYFE said:


> A shame. The wood choices look pretty good. Need to find out their wood supplier.



They've sourced woods from this place for some guitars.
Guitar Wood from Oregon Wild Wood


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Polythoral said:


> made me lol.
> 
> 
> 
> [email protected]: I guess I can't actually speak for Matt, because I think he did some of the actual luthiery work there and I never really talked to him, but I feel knowing Jiv (Nautilus/Endar Guitars dude) a bit that he couldn't have had a full grasp on the stuff happening. I feel they at least had some decent guitars made (given stuff like Leah and Pin getting them after having tried some), and this was around the time Jiv joined them, after trying some of their instruments and then ordering his in because he was happy with what he tried. They most likely had decently made examples to show people, then rushed commissioned builds, I imagine.
> 
> Also note, Jiv was not doing luthiery really for Invictus, he basically existed to post updates and give out quotes. I know having had looked through the Invictus facebook photos on a few occasions (obviously you can't now) but there was pretty much never a shot with Jiv and any of the guitars together, I imagine he probably didn't spend too much time in the workshop and seeing the in progress stuff in person. He's also a lefty, so unless he wanted to test some upside-down I doubt he was a part of testing any.
> 
> From what he's told me he did begin to realize things going downhill, especially with build times and such, and if you do check his post history on here, he did stop hyping during that time. His enthusiasm for plugging the brand just dropped extremely fast overall, aka, within like 2 months, then he just kinda disappeared, probably having already begun realizing things wrong. The only sketchy post is the one he did in the Vildjharta thread, though he technically did not try to justify anything in it, he simply offered to try to answer people's questions if they messaged him or whatnot.
> 
> He's always seemed like a really awesome and genuine person to me, and he's been taking the Endar stuff rather seriously, though obviously with only one prototype done (which he basically decided was not up to the level he wanted and is working on a second prototype now) I have no real judgement on it (though it certainly looks better than that Invictus, mirite?). I do on the other hand look forward to seeing more from him and hope that he does do well.
> 
> I'm sure you and most other people have already formed your opinions, just giving my two cents. *shrug*




Apparently lefties cant tell when side dots are done that poorly? 


Im just saying, there are better options out there than some guy that learnt from Garreth.


----------



## Mark66

Its that old case of too much hype, too faster growth, lack of resources and skilled labour to deliver the goods, nature has its way of dividing the wheat from the chaff!


----------



## Nautilus

Oh look! A thread about Invictus. _Who'd have thought it?_

Yup, I worked there. Yes, I'm building my own guitars now...Like everyone else I was pretty stoked to see a new UK builder on the scene. Like a lot of people I paid Invictus a lot of money for a guitar, which I've yet to receive. I even went so far as to help out managing the finances and the internet-facing parts of the business. I never got my hands in the building process but like a lot of us here, I was really interested in how it's all done.

Before long I stopped posting on behalf of the company, decided to do things under my own terms seperately from Invictus and have for many months been working with labels, organisations and customers to try and get some closure on what's owed to people and what's going on. For everything that did (or evidently didn't) happen at the workshop, I've always believed Gareth was well intentioned. 

We can sit around and play witch hunt --- or, as I have been doing for a while, I can help people try to take an account of what's owed to them and do something about it. Your choice folks, but if anyone can actually help those who've lost out it's probably me.


If anything, I've learn't a lot from Invictus about how *not *to do business.


----------



## aawshred

> Guys...Are we 100% sure this is an awful guitar and not a really well made guitar-shaped cake?



this is amazing


----------



## rythmic_pulses




----------



## ElRay

redstone said:


> 'nough said



Crap. What kind of a luthier would let their wood get all fungusy/moldy and still put it on a guitar?

Ray


----------



## The Monolith

Hi guys,

OP site here. Just wanted to let you all know that the site is over its drunken stumbling and is back up and running, if anyone wasn't able to read the article.

Thanks all.


----------



## canuck brian

teleofseven said:


> it also makes me fearful. because when i build a guitar, a half-assed wont do for me! not even one with some minor flaws. it has to be perfect.
> i someday wanna be a luthier, so if i was to make a guitar with flaws on it, i could never forgive myself for sending a guitar to a customer
> who paid big money on something that i made, and made poorly.
> 
> i have the aim of one day building the highest quality guitars humanly possible.



Easiest thing to do. When you feel the guitar is finished, put it on a rack for about a week (usually gotta do this to keep it under tension for a while anyways...). After that, pick it up and just play it. Look at it from every angle. Unless YOU'RE 100% on it, it's not ready to go out. If you wouldn't be happy having it in your stable, then it's not ready.

These guys....fuck. I'm not even sure what the hell they were thinking when they put out guitars like this. The guitars that I've sent to my bandsaw to be destroyed look 10x better than the abomination that I see in the pictures above. the side indicators....i'm not even sure HOW you get them to look like that, let alone have warped pickup bobbins!!

It really looks like these guys took in all the money for customer guitars, bought a shitload of promotional material and promptly hyped the hell out of the guitars that turned out OK. It also doesn't help that these guys were shady as hell, avoiding their own paying customers and generally acting like any delays were the customer's fault. I've offered customers that I have discounts on their guitars just because I'm behind on time with them.


----------



## HighGain510

After I saw Lee's post and then Misha's post on FB, the first thing I did was checked out the Invictus "Artists" page on their site. I found it hilarious that Lee is pictured on there.... playing his custom EBMM Petrucci.  Epic win.


----------



## UnderTheSign

So Gareth's mom is now defending him on the Endar Guitars page. Yeah, this is totally because of some peoples malicious intent and now his shitty way of ru(i)n(n)ing a business.



anomynous said:


> Like how it says the dude from Hacktivist praises them, and that guy supposedly stole money from a guy on here.


I was just about to mention that


----------



## DuncanPlaysGuitar

I came quite close to ordering one of these back in about October as well, pretty glad I waited now.


----------



## HyperShade

^ I swear I thought you were kidding until I looked for myself...

http://www.facebook.com/EndarGuitars?ref=ts&fref=ts

He spent all his time building a guitar for his mom instead of his customers.


----------



## ikarus

UnderTheSign said:


> So Gareth's mom is now defending him on the Endar Guitars page.



My favourite part is:

"If his guitars are so bad why are people copying them!"


----------



## thrsher

i had seen that 8 string built for ever forthright on C/L awhile back and now i know why lol


----------



## leechmasterargentina

Doesn't have to do with the main topic but in the article they said:


> _Nick and I were seeking guitar endorsements after releasing the first Ever Forthright CD because we were sick of playing our mediocre Agile guitars._


I don't own one, but I've seen happy people around here. I hate when artists get a name and suddenly things that become "cheap" to them now are mediocre. I bet he was happy when he bought that Agile...Now he has an Invictus (Yet to be delivered) which is probably going to me more mediocre than that Agile heheh.

Never underestimate the gear that gave you so much.

EDIT: I keep reading it. They got their mediocre guitars, and they confirm they are the worst guitars they played with. Now, are those Agiles still mediocre? hah


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

ikarus said:


> My favourite part is:
> 
> "If his guitars are so bad why are people copying them!"



Thats hilarious, too bad she doesnt realize her son is about as creative as a rock and has been doing nothing but ripping off Blackmachine 

I still cant believe some people were dumb enough to buy these in the first place though.


----------



## capoeiraesp

Ok, I've clearly fucked up on my recent guitar build, based on Jess Dickie's response. 
What is the correct way to handle a guitar in the first 48 hours?
When do you start counting these first 48 hours?
Is it like a new born baby where it's much softer and if you drop it can permanently damage it?
I'm serious about this, because the first thing I did once my strings were on and setup was play the shit out of it through a 5150 and then chuck it in a case for travelling interstate.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

This is being handled terribly. Deleting his facebook and accusing people of maliciously attacking his business is just making matters worse. Ignoring customer's emails and questions about his build quality isn't going to make his problems go away either. 



> He can and does build amazing guitars and there is a fault: he doesn't like to let them go without ensuring they are perfect
> 
> If his guitars are so bad why are people copying them!







> I hope those of you sending hate mail, and threatening texts etc are prepared to stand by your accusations if this goes legal.



If this goes legal things could turn really nasty when a mob with torches and pitchforks look for refunds.


----------



## beerybobb

the mom thing made me chuckle. all B.S. to. 

"mom stop it! you're embarrassing me, moooommm!"


----------



## Polythoral

I don't know if you can get to any lower of a point than having your mom defending you on Facebook... <_<

Again feel bad for Jiv having this happen on his page when he simply wanted to try to answer questions...


----------



## Nemonic

Hey guys, I am looking for custom build guitar and amp.
Do you think that Invictus SS and DAR FBM would be a good combination?


----------



## Miek

All signs point to: what


----------



## beerybobb

ugh i forgot to put this in the article. the guitar case even had cum stains on it.


----------



## joshuallen

I think someone should do an assessment on which particular customers were unhappy. It seemed to be a trend of the guitars he did for "free" (i.e., as payment for endorsements, web site work, etc) are the ones that turned out the worst. That would seem to agree with the line of argument that the builder bit off more than he could chew. But in terms of the original article, I see the writer was attempting objectivity, but he basically devotes 75% of the article to one bad experience, then presents several good experiences, and dismisses them. I don't think it could really be called unbiased. I'd like to see a thorough examination from someone who liked their end product, regardless of the wait in getting it, and from someone who had a good overall experience, something more substantial than a few words. An objective assessment of the guitars owned by happy customers with pics (maybe they got a really good guitar, maybe they just are ashamed to have spent so much and gotten crap, we don't know). I could have done without the conjecture as to dude's motivation that filled the end. It could well be that he has been honest, not trying to deflect blame, merely trying to explain and apologize.

The judgement wasn't needed, because the fact is that he let a guitar in that bad of shape leave his shop with his brand on it and essentially made a mockery of his brand. My problems with the article aside, there's no getting around that he gave a group of people who actively wanted to support him an inferior product. If the issues were taste issues, such as tone, feel, shape of the neck, angle of the bridge, that's one thing, but this was an objectively shitty guitar. The scale length was off, for shit's sake, rendering it unplayable as delivered. Unless the rest of his instruments are the guitar equivalent of the strad and this is a mere curiosity, he shot himself in the foot.


----------



## Apatheosis

Yikes. His mother is defending him on Facebook. I just don't know if I could own a guitar made by that man after this!


----------



## Zado

beerybobb said:


> ugh i forgot to put this in the article. the guitar case even had cum stains on it.



those liking this message are indeed twisted pervs.


Dunno if someone already said,but someone should write a topic about luthiers that should be avoided...the number is growing.

DeVries...Moog...invictus,,,halo...and probably many others i don't remember or i'm not aware of


----------



## AwDeOh

Zado said:


> those liking this message are indeed twisted pervs.
> 
> 
> Dunno if someone already said,but someone should write a topic about luthiers that should be avoided...the number is growing.
> 
> DeVries...Moog...invictus...and probably many others i don't remember or i'm not aware of



The gaming forum I'm a part of has a really good thread for reviewing online retailers and rating them 0-5 stars on various things: the same thing for custom builders would be good: Experiences with Online Retailers - GP Forums PC Building, Modding & Overclocking

Also, I'm not the only budding builder here that's interested in getting into it for a living - what about a link/guide thread on how to go from building your own guitars to building for others, the right way? Perhaps someone would be interested in writing a decent guide? Seems like there's some serious talent here that should (IMO) be building for others.

So much experience in this forum dealing with custom companies, both good and bad - both of the above might help cut down on the bullshit that people are going through at the moment.


----------



## -Nolly-

joshuallen said:


> I think someone should do an assessment on which particular customers were unhappy. It seemed to be a trend of the guitars he did for "free" (i.e., as payment for endorsements, web site work, etc) are the ones that turned out the worst. That would seem to agree with the line of argument that the builder bit off more than he could chew. But in terms of the original article, I see the writer was attempting objectivity, but he basically devotes 75% of the article to one bad experience, then presents several good experiences, and dismisses them. I don't think it could really be called unbiased. I'd like to see a thorough examination from someone who liked their end product, regardless of the wait in getting it, and from someone who had a good overall experience, something more substantial than a few words. An objective assessment of the guitars owned by happy customers with pics (maybe they got a really good guitar, maybe they just are ashamed to have spent so much and gotten crap, we don't know). I could have done without the conjecture as to dude's motivation that filled the end. It could well be that he has been honest, not trying to deflect blame, merely trying to explain and apologize.
> 
> The judgement wasn't needed, because the fact is that he let a guitar in that bad of shape leave his shop with his brand on it and essentially made a mockery of his brand. My problems with the article aside, there's no getting around that he gave a group of people who actively wanted to support him an inferior product. If the issues were taste issues, such as tone, feel, shape of the neck, angle of the bridge, that's one thing, but this was an objectively shitty guitar. The scale length was off, for shit's sake, rendering it unplayable as delivered. Unless the rest of his instruments are the guitar equivalent of the strad and this is a mere curiosity, he shot himself in the foot.



Every single, and I mean EVERY SINGLE guitar pictured on the now-defunct Invictus Facebook page featured terrible objective flaws. When asked by Gareth several months ago, Misha and I pointed many of them out to him, and I suspect the fear of those being picked apart publicly is one reason why he has deleted or hidden the Facebook page. The guitar in the article is far from the worst of his I've seen.
What baffles me is that there was no improvement from one to the next. Those guitars would just about be acceptable for an unsupervised beginner's first build, and I would expect a beginner to learn from the mistakes and do a much better job second time around, let alone after setting up a guitar company and building numerous guitars for professional musicians. It's not as though it costs more to build a guitar correctly, these guitars just show a fatal lack of attention to detail - either their creator is deluded about their quality of work or simply doesn't care.


----------



## BlackMastodon

Maybe this is why he used instagram filters to show progress shots...


----------



## Malkav

leechmasterargentina said:


> EDIT: I keep reading it. They got their mediocre guitars, and they confirm they are the worst guitars they played with. Now, are those Agiles still mediocre? hah


 
Yes, yes they are.

And I'm not bashing Agile, I actually convinced three of my friends to buy them and they are really good for the money (ERG options are limited in Cape Town), but they're budget instruments made to deliver value in their price range, much like Cort or Squier etc, and they do succeed, but they're still mediocre.


----------



## CharliePark

Fuck, why don't people learn how to build a decent guitar and THEN start up a business?!


----------



## -Berserker_

-Nolly- said:


> Every single, and I mean EVERY SINGLE guitar pictured on the now-defunct Invictus Facebook page featured terrible objective flaws. When asked by Gareth several months ago, Misha and I pointed many of them out to him, and I suspect the fear of those being picked apart publicly is one reason why he has deleted or hidden the Facebook page. The guitar in the article is far from the worst of his I've seen.
> What baffles me is that there was no improvement from one to the next. Those guitars would just about be acceptable for an unsupervised beginner's first build, and I would expect a beginner to learn from the mistakes and do a much better job second time around, let alone after setting up a guitar company and building numerous guitars for professional musicians. It's not as though it costs more to build a guitar correctly, these guitars just show a fatal lack of attention to detail - either their creator is deluded about their quality of work or simply doesn't care.


 
Yes yes we all get it now, Invictus = Poo, to be honest there isn't really much else to add which hasn't been said already, it's all getting very boring and shitty, the internet trolls managed to destroy the facebook page by hurling hatred on it, their YOUTUBE account is heading in the same direction , Gareth is apparently receiving death threats from all i can assume are angry customers, it doesn't look like there will ever be another Invictus guitar built and the rest of the issues will be cleaned up by solicitors and lawyers if it goes that far, so all in all i would say that this expose' was a definite success, no one will be getting ripped off in the future so.. time to move on right? time to make new records yes? I'm waiting for the next Red Seas Fire and Periphery albums so the way i see it the time you and Monsieur Mansoor are spending on here could be time spent writing all new materials for our aural pleasure  (haha see what i did there? all new materials? haha).


----------



## MJS

-Berserker_ said:


> it's all getting very boring and shitty, the internet trolls managed to destroy the facebook page by hurling hatred on it, their YOUTUBE account is heading in the same direction



Nope. They did it to themselves.



-Berserker_ said:


> i would say that this expose' was a definite success, no one will be getting ripped off in the future so.. time to move on right?



Yeah... that's not _quite_ how things work in real life. 

They can shut down social sites where others can post the truth, run everything from their own censored sites and continue to make sales by giving (or just promising) freebies to those that promote them. If they still have people like the Hacktivist guy pimping their junk, that alone would get them sales. 

Then there's also the fact that it's extremely quick & easy to just keep starting over with a new name. He could even keep it going right here on this forum, considering how many people will just throw money at any new name that comes along when they see a price quote that's a fraction of one from Vik/KxK/BRJ/Daemoness/etc... 

In any case, it's definitely better when people keep the pressure on losers like this, instead of backing off and making it easier for them to keep ripping people off. The vicious ones that don't back off are usually the ones we can thank for alerts about sneaky things like name changes.


----------



## russmuller

-Berserker_ said:


> time to move on right? time to make new records yes? I'm waiting for the next Red Seas Fire and Periphery albums so the way i see it the time you and Monsieur Mansoor are spending on here could be time spent writing all new materials for our aural pleasure  (haha see what i did there? all new materials? haha).



Really? They put out an album 6 months ago; how fast do you want the next one? lol They each contributed 1 post each to this thread. Seeing as how they're mentioned in the article, I think writing something in here is warranted. I doubt they are spending any energy on this topic beyond that.


----------



## russmuller

CharliePark said:


> Fuck, why don't people learn how to build a decent guitar and THEN start up a business?!





That's MY plan! I'm in business school so I can try to get a grasp of how to avoid fucking up this bad when I start my guitar shop.


----------



## -Berserker_

MJS said:


> Nope. They did it to themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah... that's not _quite_ how things work in real life.
> 
> They can shut down social sites where others can post the truth, run everything from their own censored sites and continue to make sales by giving (or just promising) freebies to those that promote them. If they still have people like the Hacktivist guy pimping their junk, that alone would get them sales.
> 
> Then there's also the fact that it's extremely quick & easy to just keep starting over with a new name. He could even keep it going right here on this forum, considering how many people will just throw money at any new name that comes along when they see a price quote that's a fraction of one from Vik/KxK/BRJ/Daemoness/etc...
> 
> In any case, it's definitely better when people keep the pressure on losers like this, instead of backing off and making it easier for them to keep ripping people off. The vicious ones that don't back off are usually the ones we can thank for alerts about sneaky things like name changes.



Thats a good point, but we all know his name now and we know what he looks like, if he packed up Invictus and just started under a different name... that would be quite simply retarded given how popular he's been getting over the last few months alone. If it happens again then it's very clear that it is a scheme to rip people off, but I'm also sure it would get shut down very quickly, I'm pretty new here but i cottoned on very quickly that it was a bad idea to get a build from them. I can't remember who it was earlier in the thread but they mentioned something about having a section dedicated to reporting good and bad experiences with companies and some sort of rating system, i think that could be a good idea? If it is done to help the users make the right choice and protect them from scams then it can only be good.


----------



## Larrikin666

-Berserker_ said:


> I can't remember who it was earlier in the thread but they mentioned something about having a section dedicated to reporting good and bad experiences with companies and some sort of rating system, i think that could be a good idea? If it is done to help the users make the right choice and protect them from scams then it can only be good.



If only there was a "bureau" that helped track if a "business" was "better" or worse. Hmmmm......LOL


----------



## -Berserker_

russmuller said:


> Really? They put out an album 6 months ago; how fast do you want the next one? lol They each contributed 1 post each to this thread. Seeing as how they're mentioned in the article, I think writing something in here is warranted. I doubt they are spending any energy on this topic beyond that.



I want it ASAP really lol as I'm sure many other fans do too. 

The last part of my comment was a light hearted joke bro don't even trip, I just want to hear some more of their music. I thought that would of been obvious given i made a little play on words using one of Bulbs song names.

We cool bro? yeaaahaha course we are, keep it tight and outta sight!


----------



## -Berserker_

Larrikin666 said:


> If only there was a "bureau" that helped track if a "business" was "better" or worse. Hmmmm......LOL



Please explain what you mean, I'm Italian, we are not very good with foreign sarcasm. ababbeti buppi!


----------



## Whammy

-Berserker_ said:


> I'm waiting for the next Red Seas Fire and Periphery albums so the way i see it the time you and Monsieur Mansoor are spending on here could be time spent writing all new materials for our aural pleasure  (haha see what i did there? all new materials? haha).



Nolly's not in Red Seas Fire anymore


----------



## -Berserker_

Whammy said:


> Nolly's not in Red Seas Fire anymore



Oh really? thats a shame  how come they parted ways?


----------



## Berserker

-Berserker_ said:


> Please explain what you mean, I'm Italian, we are not very good with foreign sarcasm. ababbeti buppi!


 
Bloody foreigners come over to this country, steal our jobs, steal our names and don't even try to understand foreign humour


----------



## -Berserker_

Berserker said:


> Bloody foreigners come over to this country, steal our jobs, steal our names and don't even try to understand foreign humour



aaahahaha that's made my day! hello mate how are you doing? how's your build coming along? we need to go to a local gig at some point i think Sentience have one in March if you're interested?

Yeah sorry about that, but the UK's benefit system is just too good to resist!! (i don't and never have claimed benefits just for the record, i work full time and pay my taxes like a good boy).

Gareth Dickie can tell you that too in case any of you haven't read the comments on the Monolith article. Apparently the company wasn't VAT registered and he was claiming unemployment benefits from the UK government. Not sure how true that is mind you.. it is the interwebz..


----------



## leechmasterargentina

Malkav said:


> Yes, yes they are.
> 
> And I'm not bashing Agile, I actually convinced three of my friends to buy them and they are really good for the money (ERG options are limited in Cape Town), but they're budget instruments made to deliver value in their price range, much like Cort or Squier etc, and they do succeed, but they're still mediocre.



I know they are mass produced budget instruments, but according to what I've seen on the pictures of that article as well as from the issues a luthier had to fix in one of the axes, even a cheap Hyundai guitar would do better than one of those Invictus. That's why I focus on the lightly used "mediocre" term.

Some months ago I bought an Ibanez Premium RG827QMZ, which is supposed to be far better than my Ibanez RG470BK (Korean), but in no way that would lead me to think that RG470 is by any means mediocre given the 14 years of faithful service without any problems.

I know the feeling of improving your status in the music business by getting more known or making money (which leads to getting better gear), but I don't disrespect the gear that, even being budget, has given me so much, still if it was hard to get a good sound out of them.

I know I've written a lot off-topic, but I still wanted to point out that it's not a matter of "Brand". I must admit I'm an Ibanez fan, but if some guy comes with a Cort guitar saying it's the best he had and enjoys, what can I say, when a guitar delivers, it delivers.


----------



## F0rte

inb4 it's actually Mike Sherman.....


----------



## Larrikin666

-Berserker_ said:


> Please explain what you mean, I'm Italian, we are not very good with foreign sarcasm. ababbeti buppi!



We actually have something here called the Better Business Bureau. It's an agency that helps to rate and investigate businesses. If something malicious happens, you can file a claim with them to "potentially" get it resolved. Even if they can't help, they make sure it's noted and detracts from the reputation of the business. 

If you want a good example....check out DAR. No surprise, they're an F.


----------



## -Berserker_

Larrikin666 said:


> We actually have something here called the Better Business Bureau. It's an agency that helps to rate and investigate businesses. If something malicious happens, you can file a claim with them to "potentially" get it resolved. Even if they can't help, they make sure it's noted and detracts from the reputation of the business.
> 
> If you want a good example....check out DAR. No surprise, they're an F.



Ah ok, so it is what i thought, we have the BSA in the UK or British Standards Association.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Saw this on another forum. I'd love to know how the guitarist in the video didn't stop to look at the guitar and inform Gareth of all the problems.

Invictus Guitars UK EF8 Demo


----------



## Polythoral

That appears to be Matt... I am disappoint.


----------



## Danukenator

LolWotGuitar said:


> inb4 it's actually Sebastian.....



Fixed


----------



## rush_aeg

There needs to be some kind of law passed where Luthiers need to take an exam and be registered noone wud trust a randomer with children or heart surgery, we shouldn't with our guitars!


----------



## daniel_95

"t was undoubtedly the worst guitar I have ever touched in my life."
"Seriously, Id rather rock a daisy rock guitar"

"I sold the guitar as close to 1/3 of Invictuss full price, selling it for their full price of about $3,000 was not fair at all."

even $500 would be too much for that piece of shit, I'd just return it and demand my money back


----------



## BlacKat Guitars

drawnacrol said:


> Saw this on another forum. I'd love to know how the guitarist in the video didn't stop to look at the guitar and inform Gareth of all the problems.
> 
> Invictus Guitars UK EF8 Demo



Nice intonation setup...


----------



## skisgaar

lol at the negative rep I've been getting for my opinion on Vildhjarta XD







Pic related


----------



## Pikka Bird

^Well, even light hearted jokes are sometimes taken very seriously around here. For reference, check my latest rep. But in general there's really no point in even mentioning your rep at all, since it's considered a bit attention-whorey. And now I just gon' dun it myself.


----------



## leechmasterargentina

I wouldn't like to be Gareth's webmail server, receiving bunch of death threats...


----------



## Rook

daniel_95 said:


> "t was undoubtedly the worst guitar I have ever touched in my life."
> "Seriously, Id rather rock a daisy rock guitar"
> 
> "I sold the guitar as close to 1/3 of Invictuss full price, selling it for their full price of about $3,000 was not fair at all."
> 
> even $500 would be too much for that piece of shit, I'd just return it and demand my money back



So I'm not the only one that thought this 

Some poor guy paid $1000 for that heap, sad day for humanity.


----------



## BlacKat Guitars

"_My Schecter Hellraiser special was much more comfortable. I sold the guitar as close to 1/3 of Invictus&#8217;s full price, selling it for their full price of about $3,000 was not fair at all."

_I think that he means that he has sold his Schecter for $1000, not Invictus...


----------



## straightshreddd

Pikka Bird said:


> ^Well, even light hearted jokes are sometimes taken very seriously around here. For reference, check my latest rep. But in general there's really no point in even mentioning your rep at all, since it's considered a bit attention-whorey. And now I just gon' dun it myself.




Whoever took you serious when you said that joke about honesty is retarded. haha


----------



## codycarter

This sucks, I mean they just made becoming a Luthier nearly impossible.

I'm a beginner with absolutely no reputation for building guitars, but I would NEVER try to sell anyone a load of trash like what ive seen them put out or treat someone like they have been treating their buyers.

But now thanks to these idiots, who is really going to trust me to deliver any better quality?


----------



## UnderTheSign

codycarter said:


> This sucks, I mean they just made becoming a Luthier nearly impossible.
> 
> I'm a beginner with absolutely no reputation for building guitars, but I would NEVER try to sell anyone a load of trash like what ive seen them put out or treat someone like they have been treating their buyers.
> 
> But now thanks to these idiots, who is really going to trust me to deliver any better quality?


Ehh, it's not like one bad apple will dismiss all upcomign luthiers. If that was the case we would've all stopped buying custom guitars after the Roter/DeVries/whatever incidents.


----------



## Konfyouzd

isispelican said:


> it really annoys me that they got hyped so much just to turn out shitty


 
Were they hyped a lot in the real world or just here?

That happens with a lot of builder that turn out to be less than impressive. On SSO anyway... 

Next we'll find out BKP builds pickups with uranium and everyone that ever bought a set has radiation poisoning... (I kid...)

EDIT: Finally just read the article. All I can say is... WOW. And this is why I let others buy before me.


----------



## Mark66

Hype is exactly what it was, pure BS! i buy guitars based on what i like, not whos using them, not whos bigging them up, not following the latest trends, i make my own choices and have not gone wrong yet! Use your eyes folks, dont believe the hype!


----------



## Konfyouzd

skisgaar said:


> lol at the negative rep I've been getting for my opinion on Vildhjarta XD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pic related


 
Ppl have been getting a bit liberal with the neg rep. I feel like it's dudes who just got their second green bar lookin' to feel like a badass on the internet... It seems rare that anyone here with any REAL reputation (eff e-rep) actually throws around the neg rep all willy nilly...


----------



## Konfyouzd

Mark66 said:


> Hype is exactly what it was, pure BS! i buy guitars based on what i like, not whos using them, not whos bigging them up, not following the latest trends, i make my own choices and have not gone wrong yet! Use your eyes folks, dont believe the hype!


 
In EFR's defense, they were given a sweet deal and Invictus guitars do look kind of nice at first glance. The sad part about it is that they could have spent that same $ on a production Ibanez and been far better off...


----------



## MF_Kitten

I think luthiers should try to earn their reputation through repairs and modifications and stuff like that before they jump into full blown business. There's a lot of learning to be done before you can just call yourself a builder, and you have the burden of proof, not the customers.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Or even just building parts like necks and bodies rather than full on customs to international buyers--particularly if you plan on offering endorsement deals...


----------



## MF_Kitten

Konfyouzd said:


> Or even just building parts like necks and bodies rather than full on customs to international buyers--particularly if you plan on offering endorsement deals...



Yeah, that's a good one too. I've seen several people start up like that.


----------



## BlacKat Guitars

In most cases "sweet deals" don't exist, at least most small companies that are fresh on the market can't really afford doing this (and big ones have no reason to give away custom shop class guitars to lesser known bands). I receive more endorsement requests than actual guitar orders, most of them are "I want guitar for free because I play in a band and we have 200 likes on FB", I'm sure it is the case with other builders as well. If small company is chewing on a lot of endorsements, giving "great deals", it is either brave or crazy (or both). Someone has to pay the bills in the end and depending on margin that luthier has, approx 2 guitars have to be sold at full price to cover cost of similar guitar given away for free (or broken or whatever).


----------



## MF_Kitten

BlacKat Guitars said:


> In most cases "sweet deals" don't exist, at least most small companies that are fresh on the market can't really afford doing this (and big ones have no reason to give away custom shop class guitars to lesser known bands). I receive more endorsement requests than actual guitar orders, most of them are "I want guitar for free because I play in a band and we have 200 likes on FB", I'm sure it is the case with other builders as well. If small company is chewing on a lot of endorsements, giving "great deals", it is either brave or crazy (or both). Someone has to pay the bills in the end and depending on margin that luthier has, approx 2 guitars have to be sold at full price to cover cost of similar guitar given away for free (or broken or whatever).



Expecting free stuff is a bit weird really. Some bands or guitarists just think they're much bigger than they are.


----------



## Konfyouzd

MF_Kitten said:


> Expecting free stuff is a bit naive and perhaps even arrogant really. Some bands or guitarists just think they're much bigger than they are.


 
Fix'd.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Eh, if people really put much stock in what/when builders shit out then idiots wouldn't fall for this kind of stuff nearly as frequently.


----------



## MisterMcCruff

As it's all gone tits up, I hope they sell off their wood store. 
Despite all the broken promises, grotty guitars and dissatisfied customers/endorsees, they had some good looking chunks of tree in there.

Perhaps they/he could make up the deficit that way to refund all the stricken and angry customers and put an end to all this ugliness.

A promise to refund your client once you've sold on something shit to a fool who thought it was less shit that you did isn't much of a promise.

A lump of untouched wood has promise in itself. 

*edit* ESPECIALLY on this forum.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

MisterMcCruff said:


> As it's all gone tits up, I hope they sell off their wood store.
> Despite all the broken promises, grotty guitars and dissatisfied customers/endorsees, they had some good looking chunks of tree in there.
> 
> Perhaps they/he could make up the deficit that way to refund all the stricken and angry customers and put an end to all this ugliness.
> 
> A promise to refund your client once you've sold on something shit to a fool who thought it was less shit that you did isn't much of a promise.
> 
> A lump of untouched wood has promise in itself.


 
To quote a pretty well known, highly regarded builder: "Not all wood wants to be an instrument." 

All the figure in the world isn't going to make up for dead, unseasoned wood. After looking at the "instruments" here, I don't really feel comfortable assuming that the builder is a master wood classifier.


----------



## beerybobb

daniel_95 said:


> even $500 would be too much for that piece of shit, I'd just return it and demand my money back



knowing how long everything took up until that point, i realized it would take nearly a year to see a refund, so thats why i decided to sell it to make my money back. nick still has yet to see a refund for the money he laid down (he never got his guitar)




BlacKat Guitars said:


> "_My Schecter Hellraiser special was much more comfortable. I sold the guitar as close to 1/3 of Invictus&#8217;s full price, selling it for their full price of about $3,000 was not fair at all."
> 
> _I think that he means that he has sold his Schecter for $1000, not Invictus...


sold the invictus. still have the schecter. p.s. love your work!


----------



## MisterMcCruff

MaxOfMetal said:


> To quote a pretty well known, highly regarded builder: "Not all wood wants to be an instrument."
> 
> All the figure in the world isn't going to make up for dead, unseasoned wood. After looking at the "instruments" here, I don't really feel comfortable assuming that the builder is a master wood classifier.



I completely agree. However, there must be some in there that shouldn't go to waste. I'm not talking about fancy, spalty, burly top stuff. I'm talking decent body and neck material.


----------



## BlacKat Guitars

MaxOfMetal said:


> All the figure in the world isn't going to make up for dead, unseasoned wood. After looking at the "instruments" here, I don't really feel comfortable assuming that the builder is a master wood classifier.



Exactly. There's more to wood than nice look, buying from non trusted supplier = trouble.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Konfyouzd said:


> Were they hyped a lot in the real world or just here?
> 
> That happens with a lot of builder that turn out to be less than impressive. On SSO anyway...



Nearly 9000 likes on facebook in just a few months so thats where all the hype started(and ended!). 

There was barely any hype on this forum since we didn't see a single NGD. Just a few build threads from endorsee's.

As for refunds I think the Monolith article has killed any chance of that.


----------



## InfinityCollision

I highly doubt the guy has the resources for refunds and it seems like he wasn't particularly forthcoming to begin with.


----------



## Ironbird

> Never underestimate the gear that gave you so much.





> Expecting free stuff is a bit naive and perhaps even arrogant really. Some bands or guitarists just think they're much bigger than they are.



FUCKING THIS!

I really don't get this 'I have an album out so now I need a custom guitar from a djent-approved guitar builder.' 

Come on!

These dubious luthiers (I'm using the term 'luthier rather loosely here) exist because of such people. This isn't the first time (or the last time, I'm sure of it) this will happen.


----------



## canuck brian

Ironbird said:


> I really don't get this 'I have an album out so now I need a custom guitar from a djent-approved guitar builder.'



You'd be surprised by the amount of guys that are relatively unknown emailing asking for free guitars or endorsement deals.....usually without detailing ANYTHING about who they are, their band, sales, what they're going to do for the company.... I think i'm up to around 50 of those.



Cody said:


> This sucks, I mean they just made becoming a Luthier nearly impossible.
> 
> I'm a beginner with absolutely no reputation for building guitars, but I would NEVER try to sell anyone a load of trash like what ive seen them put out or treat someone like they have been treating their buyers.
> 
> But now thanks to these idiots, who is really going to trust me to deliver any better quality?



They totally did not do this dude. They were shady from the get go. They had lots of flash and zero delivery. If you're just starting up, show ALL of your work. Show your steps and show people that you're not Invictus. After that, high resolution photograph everything. Find people on this board to try out your stuff. 

Make a build thread of your work. Guys will check it out. If you're a beginner, then you're definitely not going to be selling guitars in the immediate future. Build up your rep for being someone who builds quality and takes pride in what you do. 



MF Kitten said:


> I think luthiers should try to earn their reputation through repairs and modifications and stuff like that before they jump into full blown business. There's a lot of learning to be done before you can just call yourself a builder, and you have the burden of proof, not the customers.



If they're charging customers, they still need to prove that their work is quality. I went from swapping pickups only right into building guitars from scratch. New guys need to make the investment into building guitars that they're just not going to sell, but to just improve their skills. I built something like 20 guitars before I actually sold one to someone.


----------



## leechmasterargentina

There's been interesting comments from luthiers and about luthiers. I'm a hardly known musician, so I'm not (Yet ) as douche as to e-mail luthiers or companies for endorsement; and I'm really aware I should be way more known to have a chance for this.

Maybe I feel this way because I always "dreamed" in a way to be endorsed by Ibanez. Until last year I had only one Ibanez guitar for 14 years; a 6-string RG which has delivered so much and made me instantly a fan of the brand. Last year I got the money for a new guitar, so I went for a 7-string Ibanez Premium which hasn't still dissapointed me.

I've also thought afterwards that with the money of my Premium I could have bought a nice luther guitar too, but it's something I've just haven't felt yet.

I don't think it's harder now for new luthiers to come out because you're missing the point in the local business; that is the one that is known by word to mouth and the good experiences of customers. Just the old fashioned way before internet you know.

In the town where I live there are a few respected luthiers, but I always think of a newer one. He started showing his work in musicians meetings, magazine launches, etc. I thought to myself "This guy is bold, not only because he's less conservative than other luthiers in his designs but also I can tell he invested an important amount of money and effort in it'. Overtime people took the plunge and started having guitars made by this guy, basses, amps. He does copy some of the classic designs but he also has a trademark in the design of some curves, a kind of vintage-classic re-issue, which I particularily don't like but it seems to stand out. So far, what I've seen of him is flawless, good finish, good woods, and it seems he's open to challengues.

I don't know if he makes works to send out of town or internationally, but I feel his aim is local people and he's done well. Makes things easier too; direct contact, I think people can watch progress in his shop, things like that.

If I had the chance to be endorsed by a known instrument company, I'd rather go that way. Let's face it, if you wanna live doing music, you gotta take this as business. I think having an endorsement is a two-way thing, you get benefits by using their brand, but I also expect to be looked-up because I use that brand. If I decided to go the luthier way, I'd definitely go for someone which I know personally and know a lot of his work. For what I see in Invictus website...this isn't the case. I'm really surprised by that Vjarta band which cancelled an Ibanez endorsement and went with Invictus...Jesus, that's taking a lot of risks!

On the buyers side, if I had to go the luthiers way, with even more reasons, I'd go the local way. I'm confident enough of this guy's experience as well as him knowing his capabilities; what he can do and what he can't do. I might start taking this cheap bass I have for a fret change to start with and see how it goes.

If you wanna see pictures of some of his work, here's his facebook site: https://www.facebook.com/lanziluthier


----------



## Polythoral

Just some updates on the current situation for those curious.












On the other side.


----------



## engage757

I love how Ever FOrthright says "We had offers from companies like Mayones, Halo, Novax, etc. We decided to go with Invictus Guitars UK". WOW. So in other words, you guys are rather dumb, or you are seriously expecting us to believe that a company like Mayones actually OFFERED you something! 

More like you approached them about an endorsement and they decided to give you a slight artist deal. 

NO artist that talks about seeking endorsements and recommends instruments from Invictus/Emperion, Novax, Halo or Strictly 7 has much knowledge in high-end guitars in my opinion, and therefore, their opinion is not something I would even come close to taking into consideration. Sorry they had to go through that though.


In all honesty though, most people could see this coming from a mile and a half away in a blizzard.


----------



## leechmasterargentina

Lol, I found this comment from January 21, 2010, by googling Gareth Dickie:



> _If I'm honest it's one of my regretful purchases, It took 4 weeks to come and I practically had to beg the guy to send it. As a word of caution his names Gareth Dickie and calls his work Rayne Guitars - (ebay whatwoodyoulike). He's the worst person I've ever dealt with and his workmanship is shoddy. His packaging was also ridiculous an it's lucky there isn't worse damage than whats there. I could write 1000 paragraphs of why i literally think he's such a cock but I can't be bothered to stress myself over a relatively small amount of money and something I can't change.
> 
> Maybe I can actually use a bit of TLC and talent and work at it until it's something beautiful, or not.
> 
> I asked him to drill some bridge holes for a TOM and he asked what spec, we decided the official Gibson size would be best, what did he do? Give me a Gotoh size, whenever I brought that up he ignored it._


It seems he was already f*cking up people before Invictus. He probably changed names in the hope of starting a new reputation.

EDIT: This goes back to 2008...I wonder what would have happened if the bands and musicians that bought Invictus guitars had just googled his named before signing a contract....: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/64555-i-just-got-email-luthier.html


----------



## engage757

MaxOfMetal said:


> Eh, if people really put much stock in what/when builders shit out then idiots wouldn't fall for this kind of stuff nearly as frequently.




+10000


----------



## engage757

And as for Timfy, didn't he rip some guy off awhile ago too?


----------



## canuck brian

engage757 said:


> I love how Ever FOrthright says "We had offers from companies like Mayones, Halo, Novax, etc. We decided to go with Invictus Guitars UK". WOW. So in other words, you guys are rather dumb, or you are seriously expecting us to believe that a company like Mayones actually OFFERED you something!



This is going to be one of those rare cases where I totally agree with you dude. Instead of going from a company like Mayones, they decided to go into the unknown. 

As for Gareth building guitars in exchange for other guitars in trade...that's all fine and dandy so long as you trade the finished guitar for the other guitar. I've done it once already, but I wouldn't take the other guy's guitar until i had finished the one that I said i would build and he was OK with it.


----------



## BlacKat Guitars

> ...since they had a few notable artists endorsing the guitars and *they had offered us the best deal  pay for the hardware and the rest is free *...


----------



## Jexey

Danukenator said:


> I find it ironic that that people burned by Invictus turned around and said "Hey, go support quality brands like Strictly 7 and Halo!"


 
What did I miss here?


----------



## Demiurge

engage757 said:


> In all honesty though, most people could see this coming from a mile and a half away in a blizzard.



Sadly, that just speaks to how tight the blinders are on in these situations, the "holy shit- famous people have XYZ, and if I have XYZ, _I'm_ famous!" blinders.

It might be in-line with the flattery someone expects when they've started to make a name for themselves and started having success to be offered an endorsement from a company that seems to be in an identical position. The difference is, the builder is only looking to make money- not tangentially from the musician's notoriety (that's just icing on the cake), but rather using the flattery and supposed discount as a pretext to close a sale. A builder like this seems to have had as many endorsees as guitars they have completed, which just seems like the custom shop equivalent of a vanity publisher.

In the real world, not everyone is looking to buy you low to sell you high- some just want to clean you out of what little you have.


----------



## bulb

There are some wise points being made here. 
I will say this much. Even though it looks like I am a gear whore (and I kinda am haha) I don't accept a lot of guitars that I am offered. I am still very picky about the companies that I associate with, and with time I have only gotten pickier.

I usually only work with companies whose guitars I have tried and loved, and who have built several guitars of that caliber, not just one. Anyone can deliver a fluke, but consistently putting out a good product is a different story.

Be careful, and if it is any comfort, know that the brands that I work with can at least deliver a consistently amazing product, and you don't have to worry about quality from build to build.


----------



## BlacKat Guitars

Demiurge said:


> Sadly, that just speaks to how tight the blinders are on in these situations, the "holy shit- famous people have XYZ, and if I have XYZ, _I'm_ famous!" blinders.



The biggest mistake in this case was that potential endorsers allowed the company to use their names in advertising when guitars weren't delivered yet. You don't endorse products that don't exist yet, especially from unknown builder, especially if you haven't touched any of his guitars. 

This is what basically fueled the whole shitstorm. 

When I receive endorsement requests from people who have never touched my instruments, I'm always wondering why they want to endorse them. Even if my guitars do look and sound awesome , they can still be not what this guy is looking for. If you feel that your name is worth something, you don't give it to random company to score some gear cheap.


----------



## JosephAOI

bulb said:


> There are some wise points being made here.
> I will say this much. Even though it looks like I am a gear whore (and I kinda am haha) I don't accept a lot of guitars that I am offered. I am still very picky about the companies that I associate with, and with time I have only gotten pickier.
> 
> I usually only work with companies whose guitars I have tried and loved, and who have built several guitars of that caliber, not just one. Anyone can deliver a fluke, but consistently putting out a good product is a different story.
> 
> Be careful, and if it is any comfort, know that the brands that I work with can at least deliver a consistently amazing product, and you don't have to worry about quality from build to build.



Out of curiosity, you worded that as if companies have offered you guitars upfront and you declined to take them? As in, for free? What companies would do that? And what was wrong with them that you didn't like?


----------



## Whammy

bulb said:


> if it is any comfort, know that the brands that I work with can at least deliver a consistently amazing product



How does this comfort people who lost money with Invictus?


----------



## Prydogga

engage757 said:


> I love how Ever FOrthright says "We had offers from companies like Mayones, Halo, Novax, etc. We decided to go with Invictus Guitars UK". WOW. So in other words, you guys are rather dumb, or you are seriously expecting us to believe that a company like Mayones actually OFFERED you something!
> 
> More like you approached them about an endorsement and they decided to give you a slight artist deal.



I work with Ever Forthright and I confirm this is not the truth, Mayones *did* in fact offer them a deal, but Invictus offered a better (cheaper) one.


----------



## bulb

JosephAOI said:


> Out of curiosity, you worded that as if companies have offered you guitars upfront and you declined to take them? As in, for free? What companies would do that? And what was wrong with them that you didn't like?



Yeah, that's exactly it, but in those cases I have either not tried their guitars or tried and not liked their guitars. Invictus was one of those brands, they were trying to send their guitars to almost everyone, when I initially refused they tried to send me one anyways and told me I could return it if I didn't like it.

Just to be clear, this isn't to say that every brand I have refused is bad, sometimes it just means that I haven't actually tried their products and don't want to risk backing a company that might not be good.


----------



## bulb

Whammy said:


> How does this comfort people who lost money with Invictus?



That's not the context of what I was saying, I said "Be careful" right before that but you edited that out of your quote.
I was saying to future buyers, be careful, but know that I back the brands that I use and that you can expect quality from all of them, and hopefully that can come as some comfort since I know it can be scary to order a custom instrument blindly.


----------



## engage757

Prydogga said:


> I work with Ever Forthright and I confirm this is not the truth, Mayones *did* in fact offer them a deal, but Invictus offered a better (cheaper) one.



So, would this then confirm all the muttering of Ever Forthright's guitarist "winning" the Mayones/Seymour Duncan Solo Contest being simply an endorsement deal, that the contest was actually just a publicity stunt that the winner was pre-selected? Seems kind of strange to me that when the general consensus is that the contest was already rigged (so to speak) that the winner was already "approached and offered" a deal by the company holding the contest. It was fairly obvious that he wasn't the best entry into that contest, considering partially his guitar wasn't even in tune half the time...  Yet, he "won", when he was already in talks with Mayones about an endorsement deal?

Interesting.


VERY interesting.


----------



## engage757

bulb said:


> Yeah, that's exactly it, but in those cases I have either not tried their guitars or tried and not liked their guitars. Invictus was one of those brands, they were trying to send their guitars to almost everyone, when I initially refused they tried to send me one anyways and told me I could return it if I didn't like it.
> 
> Just to be clear, this isn't to say that every brand I have refused is bad, sometimes it just means that I haven't actually tried their products and don't want to risk backing a company that might not be good.



You mean, you wouldn't ENDORSE a company you have no actual experience WITH!?!? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU BRAH?


----------



## aawshred

engage757 said:


> So, would this then confirm all the muttering of Ever Forthright's guitarist "winning" the Mayones/Seymour Duncan Solo Contest being simply an endorsement deal, that the contest was actually just a publicity stunt that the winner was pre-selected? Seems kind of strange to me that when the general consensus is that the contest was already rigged (so to speak) that the winner was already "approached and offered" a deal by the company holding the contest. It was fairly obvious that he wasn't the best entry into that contest, considering partially his guitar wasn't even in tune half the time...  Yet, he "won", when he was already in talks with Mayones about an endorsement deal?
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> 
> VERY interesting.



why does this guy suck so much?


----------



## engage757

aawshred said:


> why does this guy suck so much?



I never said he did, but I do think it is strange that the contest winner was already in talks with Mayones for an endorsement, if he didn't have one already.


----------



## aawshred

i'm talking about you. your comments were beyond passive aggressive and obnoxious. seriously, take it easy.


----------



## Guitarman700

engage757 said:


> So, would this then confirm all the muttering of Ever Forthright's guitarist "winning" the Mayones/Seymour Duncan Solo Contest being simply an endorsement deal, that the contest was actually just a publicity stunt that the winner was pre-selected? Seems kind of strange to me that when the general consensus is that the contest was already rigged (so to speak) that the winner was already "approached and offered" a deal by the company holding the contest. It was fairly obvious that he wasn't the best entry into that contest, considering partially his guitar wasn't even in tune half the time...  Yet, he "won", when he was already in talks with Mayones about an endorsement deal?
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> 
> VERY interesting.


You have NO idea what you're talking about. Go back to the hocking your gear.


----------



## engage757

aawshred said:


> i'm talking about you. your comments were beyond passive aggressive and obnoxious. seriously, take it easy.



Calm down kid. You obviously don't understand what passive aggressive means. Edit: taking this part out, don't want to start a shitstorm, or make anyone cry.

there is nothing obnoxious about stating the obvious. Keep your irrelevant opinions on a perfectly legitimate observation to yourself. 

If someone is connected to the company that sponsors public competition and wins it, we call that a _conflict of interest_. It just seems to be a conflict of interest, which, until proven otherwise, it MOST DEFINITELY is.


----------



## engage757

Guitarman700 said:


> You have NO idea what you're talking about. Go back to the hocking your gear.




You are correct, but, for that matter, neither do you.

So maybe just look at a VERY legit observation and try to think outside the box. I am making just that, an _observation_. If you don't think that is sketchy, it's your opinion, but most people with the slightest bit of common sense can see that it sounds sketchy.


----------



## Guitarman700

engage757 said:


> Calm down kid. You obviously don't understand what passive aggressive means. PM me if you want and I will explain it to you.
> 
> there is nothing obnoxious about stating the obvious. Keep your irrelevant opinions on a perfectly legitimate observation to yourself.
> 
> If someone is connected to the company that sponsors public competition and wins it, we call that a _conflict of interest_. It just seems to be a conflict of interest, which, until proven otherwise, it MOST DEFINITELY is.



He's not the one spouting hearsay and accusations in this thread, you are.


----------



## Gregori

aawshred said:


> i'm talking about you. your comments were beyond passive aggressive and obnoxious. seriously, take it easy.



He made a comment about the mayones contest winner, and you attacked him by saying he sucks. 

Yeah, you should probably take it easy yourself and stop being a hypocrite.


----------



## aawshred

engage757 said:


> Calm down kid. You obviously don't understand what passive aggressive means. Edit: taking this part out, don't want to start a shitstorm, or make anyone cry.
> 
> there is nothing obnoxious about stating the obvious. Keep your irrelevant opinions on a perfectly legitimate observation to yourself.
> 
> If someone is connected to the company that sponsors public competition and wins it, we call that a _conflict of interest_. It just seems to be a conflict of interest, which, until proven otherwise, it MOST DEFINITELY is.



just get over yourself. it's a lot easier than you may think.


----------



## Guitarman700

Gregori said:


> He made a comment about the mayones contest winner, and you attacked him by saying he sucks.
> 
> Yeah, you should probably take it easy yourself and stop being a hypocrite.



I'm not the one saying ignorant garbage like "His guitar wasn't even in tune half the time"
Someone obviously doesn't understand jazz and or music.


----------



## engage757

aawshred said:


> just get over yourself. it's a lot easier than you may think.



Please stop. You are really going to end up over your head. And there is no legit reason to continue this stupidity. Troll elsewhere. I know of a purse forum that would love to have you.


I don't have anymore time to have a 16 year old kid tell me about psychological , legal, or conflict resolution issues. 

Consider your ignorance ignored from this moment on.


----------



## engage757

Guitarman700 said:


> I'm not the one saying ignorant garbage like "His guitar wasn't even in tune half the time"
> Someone obviously doesn't understand jazz and or music.



And someone obviously doesn't have much of an ear. It was ALL over the internet too. 


Consider this the last response to you as well.

Back on topic.

Thanks. 


xoxoxo


----------



## Guitarman700

engage757 said:


> And someone obviously doesn't have much of an ear. It was ALL over the internet too.
> 
> 
> Consider this the last response to you as well.
> 
> Back on topic.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> xoxoxo



That someone would be you.


----------



## engage757

Guitarman700 said:


> He's not the one spouting hearsay and accusations in this thread, you are.



oh yeah, but one more thing...

The legal definition of hearsay is as follows:
The evidence of those who relate, not what they know themselves, but what they have heard from others. 

We just had someone who admittedly works for aforementioned individuals, say that Mayones approached said parties with endorsement offers. Fact. I am not questioning Pry, never had a reason to do so, as he is a stand-up guy.

My statement had not an ounce of hearsay in it, rather, followed upon the logical course of factual disclosure leading to the obvious conclusion of a possible conflict of interest.


In other words.

Please stop trolling.


----------



## Guitarman700

engage757 said:


> oh yeah, but one more thing...
> 
> The legal definition of hearsay is as follows:
> The evidence of those who relate, not what they know themselves, but what they have heard from others.
> 
> We just had someone who admittedly works for aforementioned individuals, say that Mayones approached said parties with endorsement offers. Fact. I am not questioning Pry, never had a reason to do so, as he is a stand-up guy.
> 
> My statement had not an ounce of hearsay in it, rather, followed upon the logical course of factual disclosure leading to the obvious conclusion of a possible conflict of interest.
> 
> 
> In other words.
> 
> Please stop trolling.



You're cute. Pretending like you know what you're talking about and all that.


----------



## Gregori

Guitarman700 said:


> I'm not the one saying ignorant garbage like "His guitar wasn't even in tune half the time"
> Someone obviously doesn't understand jazz and or music.



I was talking to the other guy. If someone is wrong, then by all means, correct them. I just think the insults aren't necessary.


----------



## engage757

Guitarman700 said:


> You're cute. Pretending like you know what you're talking about and all that.



You are correct.

A Pre-law/Political Science double major has ZERO idea of what hearsay is.



Now I am TRULY done.

Hugs and kisses gawgeous.


----------



## DIOBOLIC5150

engage757 said:


> You are correct, but, for that matter, neither do you.
> 
> So maybe just look at a VERY legit observation and try to think outside the box. I am making just that, an _observation_. If you don't think that is sketchy, it's your opinion, but most people with the slightest bit of common sense can see that it sounds sketchy.



The group of artists that were chosen to judge the contest were mainly made up of well-respected musicians on the Seymour Duncan roster. To the best of my knowledge, none of them have any idea who the winner is, what band the winner plays in, or anything about whatever this Invictus scenario is. None of them are affiliated with Mayones, really. 

I can see how you've drawn your observation. But, you're just wrong. 

He won... because guys like Alex Skolnick said so. 

So please, enough with this nonsense. You're the reason why contests like this become so stressful for those involved.


----------



## Guitarman700

engage757 said:


> You are correct.
> 
> A Pre-law/Political Science double major has ZERO idea of what hearsay is.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I am TRULY done.
> 
> Hugs and kisses gawgeous.



Yet you keep replying. Bored rich kids with too much time on their hands tend to do that, eh? Perhaps you should go back to lording your overpriced guitars over us like you usually do.


----------



## engage757

Guitarman700 said:


> Yet you keep replying. Bored rich kids with too much time on their hands tend to do that, eh? Perhaps you should go back to lording your overpriced guitars over us like you usually do.



I do. just because you keep saying such absurd things I feel I need to educate you. So the truth comes out, you decided to flame and troll me due to jealousy of what you THINK you know about me. Good bye.


----------



## Guitarman700

engage757 said:


> I do. just because you keep saying such absurd things I feel I need to educate you. So the truth comes out, you decided to flame and troll me due to jealousy of what you THINK you know about me. Good bye.



Jealousy? Nah. Just tired of your arrogance and shitty opinion. So yes, by all means, please exit the thread. Toodles.


----------



## engage757

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> The group of artists that were chosen to judge the contest were mainly made up of well-respected musicians on the Seymour Duncan roster. To the best of my knowledge, none of them have any idea who the winner is, what band the winner plays in, or anything about whatever this Invictus scenario is. None of them are affiliated with Mayones, really.
> 
> I can see how you've drawn your observation. But, you're just wrong.
> 
> He won... because guys like Alex Skolnick said so.
> 
> So please, enough with this nonsense. You're the reason why contests like this become so stressful for those involved.



Ok, fair enough. Who are all the judges? Without trying to be argumentative, the guy who won did post it from his band's youtube, so they knew some background on them I am sure.

Either way, if he was in talks with Mayones to be endorsed or was endorsed, it can be a conflict of interest. You know what I mean?

I didn't mean for this thread to go so far off topic, but as you said earlier, you can see the point.


----------



## Whammy

Seriously guys. This has gone on for too long. Can we keep it related to Invictus?


----------



## DIOBOLIC5150

engage757 said:


> Ok, fair enough. Who are all the judges? Without trying to be argumentative, the guy who won did post it from his band's youtube, so they knew some background on them I am sure.
> 
> Either way, if he was in talks with Mayones to be endorsed or was endorsed, it can be a conflict of interest. You know what I mean?
> 
> I didn't mean for this thread to go so far off topic, but as you said earlier, you can see the point.



Nobody needs to explain themselves to you. Give it a rest, dude. You're grossly over-thinking this.


----------



## engage757

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> Nobody needs to explain themselves to you. Give it a rest, dude. You're grossly over-thinking this.




I never said they did man. Why you getting upset? 
Maybe so, I just asked you who the judges were since you sounded like you knew bro. That's all!


----------



## DIOBOLIC5150

engage757 said:


> I never said they did man. Why you getting upset?
> Maybe so, I just asked you who the judges were since you sounded like you knew bro. That's all!



I'm upset because your accusation basically states that we were being crooked. 

I wrote the backing track for the contest, promoted it, and I'm employed by Seymour Duncan. I do know who the judges are, and most of them want to remain anonymous. It's cool man, I just wanted to let you know that there's no need to form a conspiracy. It's not like that. I would never stand for that.


----------



## AwDeOh




----------



## engage757

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> I'm upset because your accusation basically states that we were being crooked.
> 
> I wrote the backing track for the contest, promoted it, and I'm employed by Seymour Duncan. I do know who the judges are, and most of them want to remain anonymous. It's cool man, I just wanted to let you know that there's no need to form a conspiracy. It's not like that. I would never stand for that.



Not accusing anyone of anything. All I said was that it was interesting. Which given that knowledge that he was in talks about with or actually endorsed by Mayones, it does seem weird ya know? Not accusing or trying to instigate anything, but it did seem. Coincidental. That's all.

Not debating that bro, just was wondering. If someone won the lottery and worked for the store that sold the ticket,(or the actual lottery for that matter) people might ask the question

That's why most companies don't allow employees or people related to said company to get in on contests.


----------



## bulb

engage757 said:


> Not accusing anyone of anything. All I said was that it was interesting. Which given that knowledge that he was in talks about with or actually endorsed by Mayones, it does seem weird ya know? Not accusing or trying to instigate anything, but it did seem. Coincidental. That's all.
> 
> Not debating that bro, just was wondering. If someone won the lottery and worked for the store that sold the ticket,(or the actual lottery for that matter) people might ask the question
> 
> That's why most companies don't allow employees or people related to said company to get in on contests.



If Nick's entry wasn't the best entry by a long shot, you might have a point. But he did the most original and interesting take, and probably the least crowd-pleasing and commercial. It appeals to fusion guys. And yet he still won. He deserves it.


----------



## DIOBOLIC5150

bulb said:


> If Nick's entry wasn't the best entry by a long shot, you might have a point. But he did the most original and interesting take, and probably the least crowd-pleasing and commercial. It appeals to fusion guys. And yet he still won. He deserves it.



Exactly. Anyone who suggests there was some sort of conspiracy is completely discounting how awesome Nick's solo was. That's the real crime, imo.


----------



## engage757

bulb said:


> If Nick's entry wasn't the best entry by a long shot, you might have a point. But he did the most original and interesting take, and probably the least crowd-pleasing and commercial. It appeals to fusion guys. And yet he still won. He deserves it.



Again, not arguing about that. Just said one thing. And most people I think can look at it and realize it seemed a little strange is all.

I wasn't a judge, but again, anyone with a little common sense and the slightest legal sense could see it was a question that was a perfectly legitimate one. 

If it didn't have two trolls join in, Keith would have answered the question two pages back and we wouldn't be at this point at all.


----------



## engage757

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> Exactly. Anyone who suggests there was some sort of conspiracy is completely discounting how awesome Nick's solo was. That's the real crime, imo.



Again, no one is reading. I said, a conflict of interest, not conspiracy. Guy is a heck of a player, that is inarguable. We aren't talking about shooting freaking Kennedy here.


----------



## breadtruck

inb4 engage757 replies to someone again and says it's his last response


----------



## Guitarman700

breadtruck said:


> inb4 engage757 replies to someone again and says it's his last response



Inb4 he says Nick's guitar is out of tune and then backpedals and calls him a heck of a player.


----------



## Polythoral

inb4 everyone bant, is more like it.

Edit: Oh come on whoever neg'd me, I reported the current events of this thread like 2 hours ago, then post to basically say 'shutdafuckupalreadypeople or you're gonna get yoself in trouble' not 'LOL DERAILING IT MOAR.' -_-


----------



## engage757

breadtruck said:


> inb4 engage757 replies to someone again and says it's his last response



Actually, I said I wasn't responding to the 16 year old kid and the other troll anymore, not the thread. But thanks for all the helpful insight!

Useful post for the day- CHECK!!!!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

How about this: everyone calm the shit down and get back on topic or you're all gone. Jeez. It's the weekend, get a beer and a blowjob.


----------



## leechmasterargentina

Prydogga said:


> I work with Ever Forthright and I confirm this is not the truth, Mayones *did* in fact offer them a deal, but Invictus offered a better (cheaper) one.



So they only took the decision based on that they had to spend less money? Well, I'm not going to make wood out of the fallen tree, maybe I could have fallen for that deal based on what I'm going to say below. I've seen plenty of Mayones guitars here, they seem deliver quality guitars and have plenty of good reviews. That's what makes me wonder how did they fall for something they hadn't seen.

As I said in a few posts back, when you know nothing about a company or someone, Google does in fact help. I found people saying the same things about Gareth, except they expressed it 2 years ago. 5 minutes of Google search and reading would have saved them loss of money, headaches, feeling like shit, and finally, this kind of exposure.

I guess this guy, Gareth Dickie, is a good sweet talker. Otherwise I don't understand how they went with Invictus just based on a cheaper deal. And this is what I meant when I said there's a possibilty I could have fallen for that, maybe when I was younger. I try to stay away from sweet talkers since I feel they're full of shit when it sounds all so perfect.

As someone said a few posts back, if I were to endorse a company, I'd have to be sure their product is good. What's the point on saving money if the product is not as good as others? That in fact would be a loss of money. I'd rather don't have endorsements and pay full price of the instruments I use, knowing they deliver what I expect.

Again I ask, are those Agiles still "mediocre" as they said them to be?


----------



## Gregori

Soooooo....do scam artists like Invictus/Rayne guitars make it that much harder for up and coming luthiers? 

Honestly, I feel like everyone that was taken by them would have been taken by someone eventually.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Gregori said:


> Soooooo....do scam artists like Invictus/Rayne guitars make it that much harder for up and coming luthiers?



Not nearly as much as it probably should.


----------



## vampiregenocide

I guess the moral of the story is do some research on a builder before you buy from them, and if it seems too good to be true then it probably is.

Also the internet sucks sometimes.


----------



## AwDeOh

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not nearly as much as it probably should.



Coming from someone who hopes to sell his work one day, I couldn't agree more.


----------



## Polythoral

MaxOfMetal said:


> Not nearly as much as it probably should.



This. There'll still be people that end up jumping onto 'to-good-to-be-true' deals, and there'll still be people do no research and put money down from new unproven builders (not to say I haven't done this somewhat, I definitely have, though definitely plan on doing more extensive research in the future).


----------



## TreWatson

bulb said:


> If Nick's entry wasn't the best entry by a long shot, you might have a point. But *he did the most original and interesting take, and probably the least crowd-pleasing and commercial*. It appeals to fusion guys. And yet he still won. He deserves it.



Bulb makes an excellent point here. it's very "out" which is probably why it didn't appeal to me personally, I'm more of an "in" guy. that said, Nick's technical prowess to make a musically unique solo is ridiculous, and the guy deserved to win.

the shitstorm that started last page is why i'm remiss to post here anymore and it's sad because i used to love coming here.

back on the ACTUAL topic, the expose was succinct and did a phenomenal job of at least attempting to be objective and fair. i knew nothing about invictus outside of "aliases plays them, they must be good" but my eyes were kinda opened.


----------



## Prydogga

Something I said earlier seems to have developed into what makes everything look like a giant conspiracy put in place to once again offer Nick a Mayones, which isn't true. To my knowledge, Ever Forthright were in talks with Mayones about this time last year, shortly after they released their debut. At the time, Invictus didn't have an open book of bad reputation, they were looking promising, flaunting deals with Vildhjarta and Lee McKinney of Born of Osiris, and having good rep from Aliases and Hacktivist, hence why a deal from Gareth offering a good discount and very quick turnaround was enticing. I'm not denying that it was a decision that didn't pan out to be beneficial, but calling them idiots and such for it seems a bit harsh.

Anyway, back to the point I wanted to make: Mayones and Ever Forthright never made any deals and everyone went about their business, again, this was about a year ago. I have no reservation in saying that the competition, or the decision to award Nick as winner, had no prior motives, and like many have said, his entry deserves it.

I'm sorry for being so off topic, but seeing as that seems to have been the topic for nearly 2 whole pages, I felt it needed clearing up.


----------



## RickSchneider

Jeez guys, drop it!

Is anyone in this thread actually waiting on an Invictus or has experienced one first hand? Obviously no one is jumping in now to try, but in the past has anyone had any hands on testing?


----------



## aawshred

DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> Nobody needs to explain themselves to you. Give it a rest, dude. You're grossly over-thinking this.


----------



## MF_Kitten

RickSchneider said:


> Jeez guys, drop it!
> 
> Is anyone in this thread actually waiting on an Invictus or has experienced one first hand? Obviously no one is jumping in now to try, but in the past has anyone had any hands on testing?



Did you see the pictures, dude? It doesn't matter if anyone tried it. If build flaws are THAT bad, then there's no way the guitar is worth having, even as a beater.


----------



## MF_Kitten

AwDeOh said:


> Coming from someone who hopes to sell his work one day, I couldn't agree more.



What you're doing right is saying "one day". Some people do a test guitar, and due to a lack of insight and self-criticism, realizes that "hey, I'm actually really good at this! Look at it, it has frets and everything! Who knows, maybe i'm even good enough to put a truss rod in it some day!". Then they start taking orders (BIG MISTAKE! If you're a new builder, you should probably just sell finished guitars at first, to get started), and then suddenly BOOM! Invictus/DeVries/Roter happens!

Also, to the guys thinking the Mayones/Duncan contest was rigged and stuff... That's just ridiculous conspiratory stuff. Come on. These companies aren't humongous faceless corporations changing the path of society like they're the fucking Illuminati


----------



## RickSchneider

No, no kitten, I realise that guitar was shocking beyond what should ever sold. What I'm more saying is that there are testimonials going around saying that invictus guitars can be good, I'm more wondering if anyone has played one of the instruments to give a first hand experience. Simply curious.

The photos show a bad guitar, but I'm intrigued if anyone has seen or felt otherwise


----------



## bulb

RickSchneider said:


> No, no kitten, I realise that guitar was shocking beyond what should ever sold. What I'm more saying is that there are testimonials going around saying that invictus guitars can be good, I'm more wondering if anyone has played one of the instruments to give a first hand experience. Simply curious.
> 
> The photos show a bad guitar, but I'm intrigued if anyone has seen or felt otherwise



It doesn't matter if there are a couple good ones. There are a bunch of terrible ones. 
When you buy ANYTHING, you expect consistency. This is what creates brand loyalty.
This is why most professional industries in just about ANY field worry not only about production, but repeatability. 

If Invictus managed to put out a few playable, hell even decent guitars, it really doesn't matter, because they did not and could not do it consistently. And the flaws that made it out on some builds are so unacceptable, that it shows a general lack of care and pride in their work. When things are THAT bad, you don't even have to try it to know that it is wrong.


----------



## RickSchneider

That wasn't a question to try to redeem the company, not in the slightest, but simply a question out of curiosity to see if the other testimonials of praise had any bearing. What you are saying is definitely true but I was merely wondering if anyone has actually had a happy ending with one of these guitars - even if they have, the brand has already dug it's own grave.

I can only hope those who are in workings with the company manage to get compensated for what they have paid


----------



## Gregori

RickSchneider said:


> That wasn't a question to try to redeem the company, not in the slightest, but simply a question out of curiosity to see if the other testimonials of praise had any bearing. What you are saying is definitely true but I was merely wondering if anyone has actually had a happy ending with one of these guitars - even if they have, the brand has already dug it's own grave.
> 
> I can only hope those who are in workings with the company manage to get compensated for what they have paid


How dare you be curious!!


----------



## eaeolian

You're ALL within one post of getting four weeks to think about your behavior in this thread. Everyone understand that? Good.


----------



## djentinc

Just gonna say here that I was informed by an anonymous source that one of the statements by an Invictus customer in The Monolith's article was firstly, not given permission for, and secondly, completely and utterly made up.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

djentinc said:


> Just gonna say here that I was informed by an anonymous source that one of the statements by an Invictus customer in The Monolith's article was firstly, not given permission for, and secondly, completely and utterly made up.



And how would he know it was made up?


----------



## Demiurge

djentinc said:


> Just gonna say here that I was informed by an anonymous source that one of the statements by an Invictus customer in The Monolith's article was firstly, not given permission for, and secondly, completely and utterly made up.



There are direct statements from 3 customers in the article (not counting the webmaster as he never got anything, apparently) and one of them is the nightmare that pretty much serves as the basis of the story... leaving the guy from Hacktivist and an anonymous member of Aliases. Who wants to flip a noise gate?


----------



## Danukenator

djentinc said:


> Just gonna say here that I was informed by an anonymous source that one of the statements by an Invictus customer in The Monolith's article was firstly, not given permission for, and secondly, completely and utterly made up.



Which statement?

If the statement was made up, why would you expect the author to ask for permission? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of making something up?

With no substance to a remark like this, I'm inclined to believe this is just bull.


----------



## -Berserker_

Danukenator said:


> Which statement?
> 
> If the statement was made up, why would you expect the author to ask for permission? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of making something up?
> 
> With no substance to a remark like this, I'm inclined to believe this is just bull.


 
I think what most likely happened is that the author asked permission, he didn't get it, so he went ahead and posted a fabricated comment by someone who "wished to stay anonymous".

If this is true then that is bad bad bad practice!! This does not bode well for the author of the article. It is unwelcome news, truly unwelcome news.


----------



## HurrDurr

I just spent over 2 hours reading everything in this thread:

1) Gareth handled himself EXTREMELY poorly in reference to how he treated his customers and how he went about running his business.

2) Though it's harsh to bash on someone who (from Jiv's words) seemed to have nothing but good intentions, Gareth just isn't at a level of luthiery to be asking for that kind of money and he surely shouldn't be taking in orders when he's got so many and it's just him alone doing all that work. Poor planning and execution, indefinitely.

3) Ever Forthright had a a valid reason for choosing him as an endorsee. He had bands and artists whom people respect on his roster and he was much cheaper than other brands. Had he NOT been using the names of those mentioned artists, I doubt anyone would have bothered, but then again that was probably his point in doing so. It's just sad that what happened happened, but I honestly can't argue with those on here that are saying the band should have done more research on exactly WHO they were getting a guitar from.

4) In response to the ridiculousness of the great Mayones conspiracy of 2013, let it be known that his playing was sick and if you think he was out of tune or key or whatever, then you're probably just unfamiliar with the scales he was using to melt your face with his soul. Also, when Keith MerrBRow tells you politely to shut up, please do. (Especially when Bulb is backing him up -- Automatic Djent power-up equal to +20 Mana and +80 Your Argument Is Invalid).

5) Am I the only one that is puzzled by the Vildhjarta response posted somewhere about "It's not what you think it is" or something like that? (even in speech their lyrics are cryptic -- I LOVE THAT BAND)

Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed my two cents and can agree with my opinions or else we'll be mortal enemies for life and I'll have to slander you for thinking and being differently than me.

P.S. ^^ I really hope everyone understands sarcasm and a little fun and games.


----------



## -Berserker_

HurrDurr said:


> I just spent over 2 hours reading everything in this thread:
> 
> 1) Gareth handled himself EXTREMELY poorly in reference to how he treated his customers and how he went about running his business.
> 
> 2) Though it's harsh to bash on someone who (from Jiv's words) seemed to have nothing but good intentions, Gareth just isn't at a level of luthiery to be asking for that kind of money and he surely shouldn't be taking in orders when he's got so many and it's just him alone doing all that work. Poor planning and execution, indefinitely.
> 
> 3) Ever Forthright had a a valid reason for choosing him as an endorsee. He had bands and artists whom people respect on his roster and he was much cheaper than other brands. Had he NOT been using the names of those mentioned artists, I doubt anyone would have bothered, but then again that was probably his point in doing so. It's just sad that what happened happened, but I honestly can't argue with those on here that are saying the band should have done more research on exactly WHO they were getting a guitar from.
> 
> 4) In response to the ridiculousness of the great Mayones conspiracy of 2013, let it be known that his playing was sick and if you think he was out of tune or key or whatever, then you're probably just unfamiliar with the scales he was using to melt your face with his soul. Also, when Keith MerrBRow tells you politely to shut up, please do. (Especially when Bulb is backing him up -- Automatic Djent power-up equal to +20 Mana and +80 Your Argument Is Invalid).
> 
> 5) Am I the only one that is puzzled by the Vildhjarta response posted somewhere about "It's not what you think it is" or something like that? (even in speech their lyrics are cryptic -- I LOVE THAT BAND)
> 
> Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed my two cents and can agree with my opinions or else we'll be mortal enemies for life and I'll have to slander you for thinking and being differently than me.
> 
> P.S. ^^ I really hope everyone understands sarcasm and a little fun and games.


 
Hurr Durr, you username reminds me of the ERMERGHERD meme. And that makes me smile


----------



## HurrDurr

-Berserker_ said:


> Hurr Durr, you username reminds me of the ERMERGHERD meme. And that makes me smile



Ha, it's a play on a joke I have between a few friends where we surprise each other with *"HURRRRR DURRRRRRRRR!"* on random occasions. Making people smile is what we do best!


----------



## djentinc

-Berserker_ said:


> I think what most likely happened is that the author asked permission, he didn't get it, so he went ahead and posted a fabricated comment by someone who "wished to stay anonymous".
> 
> If this is true then that is bad bad bad practice!! This does not bode well for the author of the article. It is unwelcome news, truly unwelcome news.



That was pretty much what happened.

There are other things that The Monolith is doing which is considered bad journalistic practice too and for a site that is trying to look like a serious journalistic tool as well as a blog and a form of social network, it is very bad indeed. I'm not gonna badmouth anybody because that's stupid, but I will say that something might be fishy afoot in there...


----------



## Danukenator

djentinc said:


> I'm not gonna badmouth anybody because that's stupid, but I will say that something might be fishy afoot in there...



Except by spreading a rumor that you haven't substantiated, you are badmouthing someone, the author.

And you just accused the entire website of bad journalist practices.


----------



## djentinc

Stealthdjentstic said:


> And how would he know it was made up?



Because he was asked to provide a statement, and refused.


----------



## djentinc

Danukenator said:


> Except by spreading a rumor that you haven't substantiated, you are badmouthing someone, the author.
> 
> And you just accused the entire website of bad journalist practices.



All will be revealed...


----------



## eaeolian

-Berserker_ said:


> I think what most likely happened is that the author asked permission, he didn't get it, so he went ahead and posted a fabricated comment by someone who "wished to stay anonymous".
> 
> If this is true then that is bad bad bad practice!! This does not bode well for the author of the article. It is unwelcome news, truly unwelcome news.



I think what's happening is a deliberate attempt to deflect from the issue at hand with no proof by a VERY new site member.

So I suggest you stop posting in this thread unless you can provide some, you know, actual proof of your accusations, with actual attribution. K?


----------



## eaeolian

djentinc said:


> All will be revealed...



Same goes for you. New member + undocumented accusations = permaban if continued.

Hopefully I don't have to spell this out any more strongly.


----------



## -Berserker_

Danukenator said:


> Except by spreading a rumor that you haven't substantiated, you are badmouthing someone, the author.
> 
> And you just accused the entire website of bad journalist practices.



Not only must we watch out for government conspiracies, the music industry is conspiring against us too now!!! I heard from an anonymous source that the music industry is actually funded by what would be considered the 5th Reich!!!Some people say the war ended in 1945, other say the war ended with the fall of the Berlin wall in 1990... i say the war continues to this day, and that Justin Bieber is the new fuhrer!!!!!

You can trust me, i am from the internetz.


----------



## eaeolian

-Berserker_ said:


> Not only must we watch out for government conspiracies, the music industry is conspiring against us too now!!! I heard from an anonymous source that the music industry is actually funded by what would be considered the 5th Reich!!!Some people say the war ended in 1945, other say the war ended with the fall of the Berlin wall in 1990... i say the war continues to this day, and that Justin Bieber is the new fuhrer!!!!!
> 
> You can trust me, i am from the internetz.



I can trust you to be leaving for 2 weeks. Stop being an asshole when you get back.


----------



## djentinc

Yeah cool, I shouldn't have gone off like that, it was god knows how late at night when I made that first post and I wasn't thinking straight.


----------



## AaronTan

ROBERTTT PERRRCYYY, legendary, I might add.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Invictus Axis in London | Guitars, Guitar Amplifiers for Sale | Gumtree.com

Invictus guitar up for sale here. Interesting read and clarifies that the first few builds did have some big QC issues and they really didn't know how to build a solid guitar.









> Neck thru wenge/flamed maple with ash wings.
> 2 piece ziricote top
> 24 frets
> Luminlay inlays down the side (no inlays on the board)
> Wenge fretboard
> Sperzel locking tuners (3 a side)
> 
> My review of the guitar:
> 
> I got my hand on an AXIS build by the guys at Invictus. There is a bit of history to the Invictus brand, some good and some bad and I thought I'd clear the air with a review of one of their builds.
> By this point various issues have been brought up by third parties regarding the workmanship behind these guitars. There are reports of sloppy wood joining (this was admittedly criticism leveled at a demo body, not a final build), bad binding, late delivery etc etc etc
> If you look around a bit you'll see that the Invictus guys are taking a bit of a beating at the moment. Still, that's not something I can comment on, however, I can review this build and see if that sheds a bit of light on what is going on.
> Appearance:
> Right, first off this guitar looks great. Really good wood selection, neck through construction, great detail on the grain of the body. BUT (big but see) this illusion starts to fall apart rather quickly as there are a whole lot of build issues going on in the detail.
> The nut slot has been cut sloppily.
> There are still guidance pencil marks on various parts of the body.
> The electric wiring shorts out quite a lot.
> The neck to body join is really sloppy. You can see that the builder attempted a smooth, seamless join from the body to the neck but they appear to have missed one of their own pencil markings where the sweep of the neck horn should end and instead the wood continues and joins unevenly.
> The bindings of the different body layers leave a lot to be desired
> Some parts of the body have not been oiled evenly and look quite "dry" and dull compared to the more glamorous parts on the front.
> OK those are the bad bits out the way, so what are the good points? Well, put simply, it sounds immense. There are a pair of BareKnuckle humbuckers powering this thing and, well it's tech/Dj*nt/Metal heaven. The main body wood seems to be swamp ash and Invictus have really dialed in on that controlled and well articulated high distortion sound reminiscent of Periphery, SiKth and Meshuggah. Speaking of Meshuggah this thing detunes really well. Down to B with no problem and great definition in the low end.
> The neck is great for rhythmic chugging but it does choak a bit on 15th fret widdling (this could be down to my lame lead skillz).
> So yeah, that's pretty much it. A lot of the bad build stories online appear to have some foundation. The reasons for this are most probably down to the builder overestimating how many builds they could get out the door when the Invictus craze hit. Still, once I'd got stuck in, filled a few open pores, re-soldered a couple of connections, re-aligned the string saddles everything was pretty epic.


----------



## breadtruck

drawnacrol said:


> Invictus Axis in London | Guitars, Guitar Amplifiers for Sale | Gumtree.com
> 
> Invictus guitar up for sale here. Interesting read and clarifies that the first few builds did have some big QC issues and they really didn't know how to build a solid guitar.



Given all the flaws that he describes, I'm pretty shocked that he's still asking for £900 for it. Kinda seems like the only good point he was making is that the pickups sound good.


----------



## BlacKat Guitars

I can't see a pair of Bare Knuckle humbuckers on that picture.


----------



## Danukenator

Man, I don't think it even looks that good. It just screams "cheap."


----------



## BlacKat Guitars

In fact I can't see a single BKP there. Black slugs, invader-like bolts... Probably something very custom


----------



## Kiwimetal101

"There are a _pair_ of BKP humbuckers"..

Uhhhhhh I count one humbucker.. Anyone else??


----------



## TheBigGroove

Edit: why I'm beating rotten horse parts, I don't know...sorry for that.


----------



## BlacKat Guitars

Somewhat positive review from guy who is *selling *the guitar? How is that surprising?


----------



## Rook

If he states everything that's wrong with it and its only good point seems to originate from the pickup which is of questionable origin, his price is neither here nor there. If someone's interested* enough to spend almost 1k on something so _questionable_ (I like that word) given the information then that's their decision.

I like how he mentions a craze. I think the people who invested** tried to make it sound like a craze but I don't think it really took off to such a level. Nothing like.

*read 'daft'
**read 'fell for it'


----------



## straightshreddd

I really felt bad for Gareth after reading all the hate and criticism, but for the love of chicken wraps, how could you allow those to leave your shop? If I ran a shop, I wouldn't allow anything to leave my shop unless I'd be completely happy with it myself. When, I get a new(or used) guitar, I inspect it heavily and notice all flaws immediately and I'd do the same all along the process of manufacturing my customs for people.

I'd also not get in over my head, even if I was building some web momentum. Fuck that. Quality product or go home.


----------



## Necromagnon

straightshreddd said:


> I'd also not get in over my head, even if I was building some web momentum. Fuck that. Quality product or go home.


You should say that to every modern manufacturers (phone/computer/clothes/tools/etc.). And when there's money involved, you can always forgot humanity and common sense.

Also, I don't know how 10 pages could have been written on this, and are still discuss. Everything is said in the 1st post, no?


----------



## TheBigGroove

BlacKat Guitars said:


> Somewhat positive review from guy who is *selling *the guitar? How is that surprising?



just read the quoted portion, didn't realize he was selling...


----------



## Pikka Bird

djentinc said:


> Because he was asked to provide a statement, and refused.



Herrmmm, if your contact refused, and the source of the statement is still anonymous, then why does he assume that the statement is supposedly his? Perhaps someone else was also asked, and the anonymous statement comes from some kind of entirely different guy?

edit: oh, just noticed that I'm not likely to get a reply from this guy.


----------



## djentinc

drawnacrol said:


> Invictus Axis in London | Guitars, Guitar Amplifiers for Sale | Gumtree.com
> 
> Invictus guitar up for sale here. Interesting read and clarifies that the first few builds did have some big QC issues and they really didn't know how to build a solid guitar.



Holy shit, that's Leah's build!

I could spot that top from a mile off hahahahahaha.


----------



## djentinc

Pikka Bird said:


> Herrmmm, if your contact refused, and the source of the statement is still anonymous, then why does he assume that the statement is supposedly his? Perhaps someone else was also asked, and the anonymous statement comes from some kind of entirely different guy?
> 
> edit: oh, just noticed that I'm not likely to get a reply from this guy.



The statement I'm talking about got edited off the article. And it's completely irrelevant now, since the company is now practically out of buisiness (if it isn't already by now). Even Timfy has abandoned the company and is now using Ibanez.


----------



## djentinc

BlacKat Guitars said:


> In fact I can't see a single BKP there. Black slugs, invader-like bolts... Probably something very custom



The pickup shown in the photo was an Invictus-designed pickup, which Leah had swapped out for a Bare Knuckle later. The guitar actually looked kinda cooler with the BKP in than the Invictus pickup.


----------



## -Berserker_

djentinc said:


> The pickup shown in the photo was an Invictus-designed pickup, which Leah had swapped out for a Bare Knuckle later. The guitar actually looked kinda cooler with the BKP in than the Invictus pickup.


 
I contacted the seller last night out of interest I don't think it's Leah selling it but another lady called Sasha (could be a guy though i guess) anyway this is what i was told, the first message is from me to them and the second in white text is their reply:

Good evening, 

Would you be willing to take offers on the guitar considering the defects you mentioned in the description? 

I just don't feel &#65533;900 pounds is reasonable at all for a guitar which the only positive point is the pickup in it...


Yeah, of course make your offer. I can be reasonable... sometimes!

I should probably warn you that the truss rod nut is pretty screwed.
To be honest I wouldn't feel good about selling you this guitar, I had it checked out by a luthier recently and really it's not worth the money. I've been trying to contact the original seller for 3 weeks now to get them to take the thing back (I kind of know them, they used the guitar as a part exchange on another guitar I sold them).
Needless to say as tempting as it is to try and recoup the cash I would feel like crap passing the buck onto another person.


----------



## -Berserker_

The seller seems genuine enough and honest about the issues the guitar has when speaking to them to their credit, and it seems they got shafted by who ever they bought it from... shame. Well i guess for any of you contemplating it i guess the best advice here is to stay away..


----------



## breadtruck

Yeah. Massive props to the seller for that response. He/she could have easily just not mentioned all the of the faults and sold it on as an interesting custom. (Just as the luthier did )


----------



## Lorcan Ward

^Someone else sold it to him after getting it off Invictus which is just as bad if not worse than what the luthier did.


----------



## djentinc

-Berserker_ said:


> I contacted the seller last night out of interest I don't think it's Leah selling it but another lady called Sasha (could be a guy though i guess) anyway this is what i was told, the first message is from me to them and the second in white text is their reply:
> 
> Good evening,
> 
> Would you be willing to take offers on the guitar considering the defects you mentioned in the description?
> 
> I just don't feel &#65533;900 pounds is reasonable at all for a guitar which the only positive point is the pickup in it...
> 
> 
> Yeah, of course make your offer. I can be reasonable... sometimes!
> 
> I should probably warn you that the truss rod nut is pretty screwed.
> To be honest I wouldn't feel good about selling you this guitar, I had it checked out by a luthier recently and really it's not worth the money. I've been trying to contact the original seller for 3 weeks now to get them to take the thing back (I kind of know them, they used the guitar as a part exchange on another guitar I sold them).
> Needless to say as tempting as it is to try and recoup the cash I would feel like crap passing the buck onto another person.



Sasha is a unisex name so it could probably be a guy.

I don't remember the Aliases guys mentioning they bought a guitar from a dude called Sasha... the guitar must have changed hands more than once since the original owner got it.


----------



## djentinc

-Berserker_ said:


> The seller seems genuine enough and honest about the issues the guitar has when speaking to them to their credit, and it seems they got shafted by who ever they bought it from... shame. Well i guess for any of you contemplating it i guess the best advice here is to stay away..



Yeah, best advice is to just stay away from Invictus stuff altogether. The guitars will most likely stop circulating and some guy will just take the hardware and pickups out and use the wood as a coffee table or something.



drawnacrol said:


> ^Someone else sold it to him after getting it off Invictus which is just as bad if not worse than what the luthier did.



The guitar was a part-exchange, so basically s/he got the Invictus for nothing. How is that ripping somebody off?


----------



## -Berserker_

djentinc said:


> The guitar was a part-exchange, so basically s/he got the Invictus for nothing. How is that ripping somebody off?



Because the person who now has the invictus didn't know of the depth of the problems until they took it to a luthier and had it looked at, and the fact they swapped (what would seem) a guitar in full working order plus they are trying to get in contact with the person the PX'd with and they aren't responding.

If i was exchanging a guitar i would expect the other party to tell me of any issues. if they say it's all good and then it transpires that actually its not then i'd call shenanigans!


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## djentinc

-Berserker_ said:


> Because the person who now has the invictus didn't know of the depth of the problems until they took it to a luthier and had it looked at, and the fact they swapped (what would seem) a guitar in full working order plus they are trying to get in contact with the person the PX'd with and they aren't responding.
> 
> If i was exchanging a guitar i would expect the other party to tell me of any issues. if they say it's all good and then it transpires that actually its not then i'd call shenanigans!



Hmmmm, this is strange...

I might get in contact with the person who posted the ad, ask about the guitar and see what's up. If nothing else, it could just be sold for parts (I mean, the Bare Knuckle in the guitar is pretty nice, and some of the hardware could come in handy).

Edit: I messaged the seller, I'll post the reply up here when I see it.


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## iron blast

its probably just fancy firewood with some nice parts sadly


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## djentinc

iron blast said:


> its probably just fancy firewood with some nice parts sadly



Hence my "coffee table" comment a few posts back.


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