# New Headless Multiscale Zeus Basses from Kiesel



## LordCashew

4 String: https://www.kieselguitars.com/catalog/guitars/zbm4

5 String: https://www.kieselguitars.com/catalog/guitars/zbm5

6 String: https://www.kieselguitars.com/catalog/guitars/zbm6












The scale on the low end is only 35", but it's still cool to see this kind of progress. As always, Kiesel aesthetics are a bit much for me, but I respect the execution on these.


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## lewis

LordIronSpatula said:


> 4 String: https://www.kieselguitars.com/catalog/guitars/zbm4
> 
> 5 String: https://www.kieselguitars.com/catalog/guitars/zbm5
> 
> 6 String: https://www.kieselguitars.com/catalog/guitars/zbm6
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> 
> The scale on the low end is only 35", but it's still cool to see this kind of progress. As always, Kiesel aesthetics are a bit much for me, but I respect the execution on these.



That Purple one kind of reminds me of the style of an Aristides.
I really like that. Pickups getting painted works nice too


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## KnightBrolaire

the colorshift purple one is really cool. I hate the fade though. Going from purple with an abrupt transition into turquoise triggers me. It would have made more sense to do purple to darker blue to turquoise, or just eschew the turquoise altogether.


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3

lewis said:


> That Purple one kind of reminds me of the style of an Aristides.
> I really like that. Pickups getting painted works nice too




I think they charge like 200 to paint the pickups and non returnable


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## Grand Moff Tim

35"? Swing and a miss. I guess it's fine if they're just trying to sell to people who only want a multiscale because they're trendy right now, but I doubt many bassists who actually really want the full benefits of a multiscale are going to jump at a 35" B.


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## MikeNeal

I've never been a fan of kiesel, but this I like.


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## LordCashew

Grand Moff Tim said:


> 35"? Swing and a miss. I guess it's fine if they're just trying to sell to people who only want a multiscale because they're trendy right now, but I doubt many bassists who actually really want the full benefits of a multiscale are going to jump at a 35" B.



Right? I don't get it either. I honestly think the djent/whateverthetrendysubgenreiscallednow crowd would be all over a 37" Kiesel. According to other posters, Jeff wants customers to be able to use standard strings. Doesn't seem to be holding Dingwall back, though.


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## ICSvortex

LordIronSpatula said:


>



Is it just me or is there a big chunk missing from the fretboard at the 20th fret?


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## jemfloral

ICSvortex said:


> Is it just me or is there a big chunk missing from the fretboard at the 20th fret?



It's hard to see from that angle, but Kiesel is now also putting bevels on the fretboard. Jeff said it gives better access to the 24th fret on the lowest string.


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## I play music

ICSvortex said:


> Is it just me or is there a big chunk missing from the fretboard at the 20th fret?


Looks like very bad photoshop editing to me. Parts of the body are also missing, for example on the lower horn...


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## LordCashew

I play music said:


> Looks like very bad photoshop editing to me. Parts of the body are also missing, for example on the lower horn...



Yeah, the string looks super weird around the 20th fret too.


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## Blasphemer

Huh. I really hate it as a guitar, but it really works for me as a bass...

Also, I'm pretty sure the chunk out of the fretboard is because they used the iphone's portrait mode to take the picture. I've seen it do similar things before, although I could be wrong


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## Masoo2

ICSvortex said:


> Is it just me or is there a big chunk missing from the fretboard at the 20th fret?


iOS portrait mode or similar likely

I actually really dig that 6 string one, I'm fine with a 35 inch low end as long as the pickups work well

For some reason my experience with Music Man humbuckers has been very bad (Stingray 5 HH)

It is surprising that they haven't went longer than 35.5 though, a readily available ~$1100 MIA 34-37 would sell like hotcakes


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## spudmunkey

For what it's worth, I've heard a fair number of folks say they are "MM style" pickups in appearance only.


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## MaxOfMetal

spudmunkey said:


> For what it's worth, I've heard a fair number of folks say they are "MM style" pickups in appearance only.



That's probably because, while configured the same as MM style pickups, the magnets and windings are completely different, not to mention positioning as well.

I had these same pickups in an XB6 and LB5. Those basses sounded nothing like my StingRays. Not that that's a bad thing, they were good sounding basses.


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## GunpointMetal

Grand Moff Tim said:


> 35"? Swing and a miss. I guess it's fine if they're just trying to sell to people who only want a multiscale because they're trendy right now, but I doubt many bassists who actually really want the full benefits of a multiscale are going to jump at a 35" B.


They're not gonna do anything to far outside normal scale lengths. Which sucks.



ICSvortex said:


> Is it just me or is there a big chunk missing from the fretboard at the 20th fret?


bad photoshop of whatever was behind that bass, is what it looks likes to me.


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## stevexc

Grand Moff Tim said:


> 35"? Swing and a miss. I guess it's fine if they're just trying to sell to people who only want a multiscale because they're trendy right now, but I doubt many bassists who actually really want the full benefits of a multiscale are going to jump at a 35" B.



don't care still want it

For serious though, 37" is just way too much for me to handle. 35" works perfectly, and 33.5-35 gives me (almost) a pretty even 40 pounds per string at C Standard with a standard .125 set.


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## spudmunkey

For historical context, their old "extended scale" XB75 bass was 35.25". For some reason a lot of people think it was 36". Mendela effect, perhaps?



lewis said:


> That Purple one kind of reminds me of the style of an Aristides.
> I really like that. Pickups getting painted works nice too



In case it isn't clear in the photo, that's actually a color-shifting metallic paint.


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## DudeManBrother

spudmunkey said:


> For historical context, their old "extended scale" XB75 bass was 35.25". For some reason a lot of people think it was 36". Mendela effect, perhaps?



This might sound crazy, but I swear to God, I grew up remembering their logo looking like it said “Carvin” and not “Kiesel”; like, WTF bro, what’s CERN really doing out there? Anyone else remember that?


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## GenghisCoyne

I feel like most of the people that think a bass should have longer than a 35 inch scale have never played a bass with a 36 inch scale. The first fret is like 4 inches wide.


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## Grand Moff Tim

GenghisCoyne said:


> I feel like most of the people that think a bass should have longer than a 35 inch scale have never played a bass with a 36 inch scale. The first fret is like 4 inches wide.



I own a 33-36" multiscale six string.








The reason I say it should have longer than 35 for the B isn't because I think bass should have longer than 35, but rather because the point of a multiscale is to be able to have a longer B without having to have an overly long G or C. The G on a 35" 5 string is just fine, as the many 35" straight scale basses can attest to. 

If someone wants a 35" B, there's no good reason to get a multiscale when a straight scale will work just fine. If they wanted a 36"+ B, though, a straight scale wouldn't be ideal, because the thinner strings start to suffer a bit at that scale, IMO. That's when something like a 33-36 or 34-37 multiscale is a good option.

I mean, fair play to people who actually want this, I suppose. If you don't like 35" G or C for whatever reason, this is optimal. For what it's worth, I don't think a bass needs to be long scale to get a nice sounding B. I have a straight scale 33" 5 string, and it sounds great. I'm just not entirely sold on multiscales that aren't at least 35.5", I guess, haha.


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## LordCashew

Sure didn't see this coming...






Very cool to see, but it begs the question of if the seven string bass crowd is bigger than the 37" scale bass crowd.


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## LordCashew

spudmunkey said:


> For what it's worth, I've heard a fair number of folks say they are "MM style" pickups in appearance only.



This is somewhat true. I would say there's some similarity in the attack and overall voicing, but the Carvin/Kiesel pickups are more neutral than actual MMs in my experience. Less clank (even if positioned closer to the bridge), but more midrange and overall clarity. It's also worth noting that the preamps in MusicMan basses are a pretty important component in their sound and those are obviously absent from the Kiesel equation. Even among MusicMan basses there are some pretty obvious sonic differences - Bongos and Stingrays, for example, only sound partially alike despite having visually similar pickups.

I actually find the Kiesel HBs to be quite good pickups, though to me they seem to be at their best passive or with pres other than Carvin/Kiesel OEM.


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## Grand Moff Tim

LordIronSpatula said:


> Sure didn't see this coming...
> 
> Very cool to see, but it begs the question of if the seven string bass crowd is bigger than the 37" scale bass crowd.



As long as they're adding a high string rather than another low one, the shorter fan I was complaining about before suddenly makes more sense . The 35" will be fine for the low B, and the shorter scale on the treble side will be much better for a higher, thinner string.

Nice save, Kiesel.


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## iron blast

Is this real 7 string kiesel?


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## spudmunkey

iron blast said:


> Is this real 7 string kiesel?



Yes. The model is even up on their web site. 33.2 - 35" scale.


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## spudmunkey

BEADGCF

Apparently it was specifically for the bass player from Veil of Maya.


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## A-Branger

meh 35" is perfect for a lowB. This bass is to be kept in B standard or higher (DropB, DropC). even a dropA could work more than fine. Which cover most bass ranges.

but I do agree they should have gone a bit longer to appeal to the dj0nt kids who are already hooked on the brand by their guitars

...still waiting for the first Dj0nt band with an 40"-ish electric double bass


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## Grand Moff Tim

A-Branger said:


> meh 35" is perfect for a lowB. This bass is to be kept in B standard or higher (DropB, DropC). even a dropA could work more than fine. Which cover most bass ranges.
> 
> but I do agree they should have gone a bit longer to appeal to the dj0nt kids who are already hooked on the brand by their guitars
> 
> ...still waiting for the first Dj0nt band with an 40"-ish electric double bass




Again, nobody is saying 35" isn't good for low B. That's not the issue with the scales on the Kiesel at all. 35" is fine for B, and it's also fine for EADG. The purpose of a multiscale is to resolve tension/gauge/balance issues when you want to either go _lower_ than B or _higher _than G (or both!). That 35" that's perfect for B isn't so perfect for high C or low F#. Not impossible or unusable, certainly, but not ideal. 

It's not about appealing to the "djont kids," it's about making an instrument that makes sense. I don't djent at all with my 33-36". Last time I took it out on a gig was for a Jazz show. You're right in a sense, though, in that I suspect the only reason they're making a multiscale bass at all is to appeal to the trend-hoppers, who only want one because that's what the internet tells them they should want, rather than because they've done any thinking about it to come to a sensible conclusion about what they actually need.

If you want a 35" low B 4 or 5 string, just get a straight scale. Easy peasy. More affordable, more options, less wait. You can use a straight scale 5 for going a bit lower, too, sure. You can use a 34" or 33" if you want to go higher. If you want to do those things with ideal tension and sensible gauges, though, find a multiscale with scales that make sense. That's the complaint here. Not "hur dur, I can't B on 35, derp."


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## A-Branger

I know, but so far most comments (or the impression I got from them), was that it should have been longer than 35 for a good B and de-tune stuff, and that a 35/33" makes no sense. A lot of people tend to think that "multiscale" should be used for extreme downtunings only. When it actually makes sense to standard tunings too (this also applies to guitar). Its the even tension (and a gauge drop on the lower string) and ergonomics that makes multiscale sense.

I recon a 36/34" would have made better sense for Kiesel. A good balance of multiscale, extra inch on the low for those who want to go lower, or drop couple of gauges for their B, but not too long for a more comfortable playing.


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## Hollowway

Multiscale on guitar helps both low and high end for 8s, 9s, etc. But on a bass, I'm not sure that there are too many people complaining about the higher strings sounding brittle, or ice pickish. So making the multiscale on the high end, instead of the low end, doesn't make much sense to me, either. This seems to be multiscale for the purpose of being multiscale, rather than specifically correcting a problem. You can get balanced tension on straight or multiscale by choosing the strings that would achieve that. But I think it's well documented in the ERB community that a longer low end helps the tone of the B (or lower) string. I understand that the VoM bassist wanted that specific model, but I also think Dingwall has pretty much proven that people dig 37" B strings. The really crazy ones of us go for the 37-40" Quake, and the B on that sounds GODLY. 

Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering if there's someone out there that says, "Finally! A bass with a 33.5" G!" I've never heard anyone complain about a 35" bass being too long for the high string(s).


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## spudmunkey

Perhaps a part of it is comfort? The Zeus is already single cut, meaning the bass will hang so that the nut is further away to begin with when passing with a strap.. and with the longer scale used for the low strings if it were a straight scale, that first fret would seemingly feel less it was a mile away.


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## Grand Moff Tim

Hollowway said:


> Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering if there's someone out there that says, "Finally! A bass with a 33.5" G!" I've never heard anyone complain about a 35" bass being too long for the high string(s).



Maybe not the G, but certainly for the C on a sixer or a high-C fiver. Even then, I think 33" is still better than 33.5" would be. I don't even really like the high C on a standard 34" scale six, and I'm not sure half an inch would help it much. The 33" C on my sixer is nice, though.


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## TheEmptyCell

Hollowway said:


> Multiscale on guitar helps both low and high end for 8s, 9s, etc. But on a bass, I'm not sure that there are too many people complaining about the higher strings sounding brittle, or ice pickish. So making the multiscale on the high end, instead of the low end, doesn't make much sense to me, either. This seems to be multiscale for the purpose of being multiscale, rather than specifically correcting a problem. You can get balanced tension on straight or multiscale by choosing the strings that would achieve that. But I think it's well documented in the ERB community that a longer low end helps the tone of the B (or lower) string. I understand that the VoM bassist wanted that specific model, but I also think Dingwall has pretty much proven that people dig 37" B strings. The really crazy ones of us go for the 37-40" Quake, and the B on that sounds GODLY.
> 
> Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering if there's someone out there that says, "Finally! A bass with a 33.5" G!" I've never heard anyone complain about a 35" bass being too long for the high string(s).


I complain about it all the time. G and C sound like ass on a 35” or longer scale. Thin, ganky, unpleasant. Now it’s easy to buy balanced tension strings, but this wasn’t true several years ago. I’m actually a little disappointed they didn’t go shorter on the high end with the 7 string, because that brings you one step closer to finding a wound string that’ll work for the high F. That said, my experiment with 7 strings is over. Cool, but not for me.


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## spudmunkey




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## I play music

I don't get why they chose a single cut shape which does not balance so well for that multi scale 7 string. One would think something with a long upper horn would be the best choice.


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## spudmunkey

A longer upper horn would change where it hangs on your body. I assume he does a lot of tapping, so perhaps having the bridgw and pickup area shifted a little bit over is conducive to his playing style.


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## A-Branger

why they picked a single cut?

because thats what they though looked best and decided to make available first. Having the Vader maybe they wanted to go with the Zeus first for something different, and later if it sells well they would do the Osiris

Theres no conspiracy of bass hanging positions or playing style or whatever. It simply "looks cool"


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## Hollowway

TheEmptyCell said:


> I complain about it all the time. G and C sound like ass on a 35” or longer scale. Thin, ganky, unpleasant. Now it’s easy to buy balanced tension strings, but this wasn’t true several years ago. I’m actually a little disappointed they didn’t go shorter on the high end with the 7 string, because that brings you one step closer to finding a wound string that’ll work for the high F. That said, my experiment with 7 strings is over. Cool, but not for me.



Well, I stand corrected.  I will agree with you about the fan, though. On 7 strings we could take a huge fan. But, I guess they’re in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation. A larger fan would turn some people off as well.


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## ixlramp

Nice 7, and it's useful for helping a wound F not break.


LordIronSpatula said:


> According to other posters, Jeff wants customers to be able to use standard strings


There are many widely available strings that have a 38" winding, like D'Addario Super Longs, that enables a 36" scale. The multiscale basses using 35.5" recognise this. So it's a little disappointing.


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## ixlramp

They have made the same mistake as the Vader bass, in using a guitar body design mostly unchanged for a bass. The upper body needs to extend to the 12th fret like an Ibanez, not the 16th.
Even basses with the horn strap button at the 12th fret are shifted too far to the left when strapped on.
It's very disappointing how most guitar manufacturers neglect ergonomics to such a degree, it's like an elephant-sized blind spot.


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## LordCashew

ixlramp said:


> There are many widely available strings that have a 38" winding, like D'Addario Super Longs, that enables a 36" scale. The multiscale basses using 35.5" recognise this. So it's a little disappointing.



Yeah, I thought it was a dubious claim but a lot of people were defending it. I thought maybe by "standard strings" Jeff meant strings you could just buy off the shelf at a local store. But unless you play a standard-scale 4 or 5, good luck with that. It's hard even to find a set for a standard scale 6 in stock in any physical store where I live. Are there even really "standard" strings available for seven-string basses like the one he just introduced? 

Seriously, who exactly can't be bothered to buy strings online these days? I get that it's really convenient to be able to walk into a store and grab a set sometimes, but lots of online sellers have turnaround times of just a few days. And once you're buying online, basically any bass is covered, like you were saying.


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## spudmunkey

Could a part of it simply be selection? I don't know anything about bass strings, but, like, Elixir didn't make 7-string sets for the longest time, so if you would have to either piece together sets from multiple brands, or use something else.


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## laxu

LordIronSpatula said:


> Seriously, who exactly can't be bothered to buy strings online these days? I get that it's really convenient to be able to walk into a store and grab a set sometimes, but lots of online sellers have turnaround times of just a few days. And once you're buying online, basically any bass is covered, like you were saying.



Maybe for you US folks. For us Europeans it can take a week or more to get them if they are not available in your country. I usually just buy several sets when I buy something else from say Thomann etc.


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## saved

I like the sound of dead strings more.So,i have more than 5 years to buy strings (i buy only for my builds,and these goes online because they are custom made)


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## A-Branger

saved said:


> I like the sound of dead strings more


whats wrong with you :O !!!!

hahaha


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## jephjacques

I actually really like that first 6 string! And while I get some people absolutely have to have some crazy long scale to do that Nolly sub bass tone, it's a huge pain in the ass to actually play anything complex on the lowest notes of my Dingwall so I think 35" is a good compromise.


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## iron blast

Its more a concern about them going with in house strings they dont want to have to order custom strings for everyone of these they make.


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## MaxOfMetal

iron blast said:


> Its more a concern about them going with in house strings they dont want to have to order custom strings for everyone of these they make.



Couldn't they just use the same strings as the Vanquish multi-scales? Those have been 34" to 36" for awhile now.


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## crg123

I mean there is a market for a shorter fan, not for me personally but its there.

Dingwalls been doing it with their Super J series for years. That's 32"-35". 

I guess 33.5"-35" isn't as useful but I sort of get it. It can be a bit tricky to play complex stuff at the low end of a 3" fanned bass as well (I own a NG-2).

https://www.dingwallguitars.com/super-j


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## LordCashew

iron blast said:


> Its more a concern about them going with in house strings they dont want to have to order custom strings for everyone of these they make.



As a decent-sized instrument manufacturer, Kiesel should be able to get whatever "in-house" sets they want custom-made in quantity from a number of sources. Back in the Carvin days, they sold rebranded sets of Labella or GHS strings in various configurations. I bet if they wanted to get some extra-long bass strings wound in bulk, most string manufactures would be willing to accommodate them. _Dealers _have done this for Dingwall players.

I can see them wanting to streamline their inventory and have all their basses be able to use the same strings, regardless of scale. But again, does the market for seven string basses and their special strings exceed the market for extra-long scale fives and theirs? I kind of doubt it.

I'm not hating on Kiesel's choices here. It's really cool to see the variety they're adding to their bass selection. Based on this thread and some discussion over on TalkBass, it's clear that the specs they currently offer are exactly what many of their potential customers want. Just not all of us...

I remember trying to generate interest in a seven string bass on the Carvin BBS roughly a decade ago and getting little traction. I would have jumped on an LB77 or BB77 at the time, but ended up getting a Conklin Groove tools instead. Had I been able to flash forward to _this _thing, my head might have exploded. 

I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually cave to the 37" crowd as well. But on Christmas I found out my wife pre-ordered me an NG3 back in September, so I'll be out of the market if/when they do. Seems about par for the course...


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