# 2013 Gibson USA SG Baritone



## jwade (Oct 19, 2013)

I love my 2011 Les Paul Studio Baritone, and have been waiting sort of patiently for the day that they'd announce either a 7 string SG, or a baritone. Well, here it is, and it's goddamned beautiful: 







Gibson.com: Gibson USA SG Baritone


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## TimothyLeary (Oct 19, 2013)

it's nice but more color options would be even nicer.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 19, 2013)

I know it probably wouldn't have been possible to find this thread, but someone beat you to it.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/st...el-out-two-doesnt-suck-works-pretty-well.html


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## JoshuaVonFlash (Oct 19, 2013)

Looks like Buckethead's Les Paul in SG forms, sans the kill buttons. It looks Awesome as F**K


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## jwade (Oct 19, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I know it probably wouldn't have been possible to find this thread, but someone beat you to it.
> 
> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/st...el-out-two-doesnt-suck-works-pretty-well.html



Yeah I generally have no reason to browse the Standard section. Plus, this guitar deserves to be in the ERG section.

Really excited for this guitar though, I'm ordering one on monday. I've been using my baritone LP for some ultra-heavy doom stuff, can't wait to hear what a mahogany-bodied SG will sound like. The coil tap feature is incredibly exciting as well. Guh. Freakingoutovaheyah.


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## mitchybang (Oct 19, 2013)

How much are these going to cost?!?!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 19, 2013)

Gibson SG Baritone | GuitarCenter


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## jwade (Oct 19, 2013)

I called a Long and McQuade here and they told me $1,400. I saw a couple of sites listing it at $1,600+


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## ghost_of_karelia (Oct 19, 2013)

I have a 24.75" SG and it humps the floor every time I go to tweak something on my amp. This would be a nightmare. 

Still love the look of it though. Not too mad on the lack of inlays, just doesn't fit with the SG theme in my opinion. Looks nice as a whole, in any case. ^^


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 19, 2013)

It has an oversized body to go with the extra scale length, so the dive won't be as bad as everyone seems to be assuming it will be.


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## axxessdenied (Oct 20, 2013)

If you have a wide strap an SG won't neckdive


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## Lava Joe (Oct 20, 2013)

joshuavsoapkid said:


> Looks like Buckethead's Les Paul in SG forms, sans the kill buttons. It looks Awesome as F**K



That's what I thought!

A damned nice looker though, she is!


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## mitchybang (Oct 20, 2013)

Stupid Ritchlite fretboard. Stupid high prices with subpar materials.


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## jwade (Oct 20, 2013)

I don't think I've ever heard of nor played anything with that material. Anyone familiar with it here?


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 22, 2013)

jwade said:


> I don't think I've ever heard of nor played anything with that material. Anyone familiar with it here?



It's a composite made from recycled wood pulp and phenolic resin. It was originally designed for use by Boeing, and is also used for countertops and stuff like that. It's much more resilient than wood, being much less prone to expansion and contraction due to temperature, and it has a great strength to weight ratio.

It's a less expensive option than ebony these days, yes, but it's also much more environmentally friendly. Gibson's been using it on their Les Paul Customs for a few years (not the uber-expensive vintage-spec reissues, though). Other companies (like Martin) also use it, and other wood substitution options.

It's a bit amusing how many react to it like Gibson's just slapping some Papier-mâché on their fretboards and calling it a day, since everyone creams all over their panties when they see fretboards made from _other_ composites, like carbon fiber.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 22, 2013)

B-but Gibson and greed!


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## jwade (Oct 22, 2013)

The price of this SG Baritone seems higher than it should be, but this richlite stuff sounds impressive. What to do...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 22, 2013)

jwade said:


> The price of this SG Baritone seems higher than it should be



It's $1500, which is like middle-of-the-road for Gibson.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 22, 2013)

Yeah, the price is about what I'd expect it to be. Gibson's are MiA, after all, so it's actually kinda crazy that they offer enough guitars in the $600-$1k range for a $1500 guitar to be considered "higher than it should be."


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## jwade (Oct 23, 2013)

my baritone LP was 1300. this SG is shorter scale, made with a wood alternative, and is significantly less 'fancy' and whatnot comparatively. I would expect this new one to be maybe 1200.


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## 3074326 (Oct 23, 2013)

mitchybang said:


> Stupid Ritchlite fretboard. Stupid high prices with subpar materials.



What exactly is subpar about richlite? I have yet to hear anything other than "it's not ebony." No, it's not, but it might as well be. 

$1500 is relatively low-pricing for a pretty odd guitar like this, especially from Gibson.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 23, 2013)

jwade said:


> my baritone LP was 1300. this SG is shorter scale, made with a wood alternative, and is significantly less 'fancy' and whatnot comparatively. I would expect this new one to be maybe 1200.



Really? What scale were those baritone LPs? I thought they were just 27", like this and the Buckethead LPs. (EDIT: Just looked it up. 28", apparently. I'll be damned. I'd prefer the 27" of my BHLP, but whatever tickles your pickle, haha)

Regardless, this isn't just an SG with a longer neck. It's an SG with a longer neck _and_ an oversized body, which they'd have had to design and program into the CNCs. Combine that with its likely lower production numbers than the "usual" Gibson models, and you can expact a bit higher a price. That's still not to say $1500 is high by any means, IMO, even though I paid a little less than that for my Buckethead LP Studio.


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## ihunda (Oct 23, 2013)

It's amazing how innovation is always snobbed by guitar geeks...
Most wood choice in the good old days were because it's what they had cheap, close by and in stock, and the rest is history because of the mojos, nostalgia and amazing skills of guitar heroes.

I guess richlite will be popular when Misha gets a Mayones or Jackson with it....


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## GenghisCoyne (Oct 24, 2013)

mitchybang said:


> Stupid Ritchlite fretboard. Stupid high prices with subpar materials.



You'd be using as much composite as you could if you worked at Gibson. The FBI kicks the door in if they suspect someones using a questionable toothpick at this point.


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## shawnperolis (Oct 24, 2013)

I like it, but with Gibson's questionable quality control you'd better be able to play the exact one you are buying before throwing down the cash. I've played some Gibson's that were just absolutely horrible, but I've also played one or two that rocked hard. Really pathetic for how they price these instruments.


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## mitchybang (Oct 24, 2013)

3074326 said:


> What exactly is subpar about richlite? I have yet to hear anything other than "it's not ebony." No, it's not, but it might as well be.
> 
> $1500 is relatively low-pricing for a pretty odd guitar like this, especially from Gibson.



Ok so I should have worded it differently. There is no way I would pay that much for a guitar with that kind of fretboard. It's not because I'm a guitar geek either. 

It's because that stuff is probably 1/10 of the cost to make compared to procuring a real piece of wood. Yet because it says Gibson on the headstock it's automatically worth that tag?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 24, 2013)

mitchybang said:


> It's because that stuff is probably 1/10 of the cost to make compared to procuring a real piece of wood. Yet because it says Gibson on the headstock it's automatically worth that tag?



He never said it was, we're just saying that Gibson usually charges around $1000 - $2000 for their mid-priced instruments. 

Also, why does Washburn get away with using a non-wood alternative on several custom shop instruments, yet Gibson gets shit for using it on a prouction instrument?


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## mitchybang (Oct 24, 2013)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> He never said it was, we're just saying that Gibson usually charges around $1000 - $2000 for their mid-priced instruments.
> 
> Also, why does Washburn get away with using a non-wood alternative on several custom shop instruments, yet Gibson gets shit for using it on a prouction instrument?



Didn't know this... Ok Washburn sucks too. Lol.


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## celticelk (Oct 24, 2013)

mitchybang said:


> It's because that stuff is probably 1/10 of the cost to make compared to procuring a real piece of wood.



[citation needed]


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## mitchybang (Oct 24, 2013)

For what?


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## HaloHat (Oct 24, 2013)

Other than the missing string I think it is bad azz 
Wood prefer ebony but open to try this stuff. No inlays is good.

Price wise I think the Fender 27" TELE for under $600 kinda kills this for me seeing they are both missing a string. But I love TELE's and SG's, my favorite single cut and my favorite double cut ha. I'd probably by the other sex shape, the Ibanez 2127z over the Gibson though. No missing string, same price more less etc.

Nice SG though. G.A.S. ing


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 25, 2013)

HaloHat said:


> Price wise I think the Fender 27" TELE for under $600 kinda kills this for me



The Fender bari Tele is made in Mexico. It'd be more in line with the bari SG's price if it was made in the US like the SG is. Hell, I suspect it'd be even more, since an MiA bari Tele would be a pretty oddball thing for Fender to do these days.


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## BucketheadRules (Oct 25, 2013)

mitchybang said:


> Ok so I should have worded it differently. There is no way I would pay that much for a guitar with that kind of fretboard. It's not because I'm a guitar geek either.
> 
> It's because that stuff is probably 1/10 of the cost to make compared to procuring a real piece of wood. Yet because it says Gibson on the headstock it's automatically worth that tag?





mitchybang said:


> Didn't know this... Ok Washburn sucks too. Lol.



Sorry, but this is bullshit.

When the world runs out of viably-affordable ebony or rosewood to make your precious fretboards, what are you gonna do? I think Gibson are doing totally the right thing by using Richlite - despite what you'd be led to think by the people like you putting it down, it is not demonstrably inferior to ebony in any way. In fact, it's demonstrably superior in some ways.

Cost is only part of the story here - if Gibson keep using shitloads of ebony on all its models, it will become rarer and rarer, and the price of the wood supplies (and therefore the guitars) will keep going up. Using Richlite isn't a way to cheapen their guitars, it's actually quite an insignificant change that allows them to keep their prices static. And the guitars probably feel 99.9999999% the same, if not better.

People have been making high-end guitars with synthetic fretboards since the 80s. It is not a new thing.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 25, 2013)

I've had Richlite on several guitars now, and it rules. Feels and looks cleaner than ebony, has awesome attack... what more could you want? It being environmentally "friendly" is an enormous plus.

Anyway, I love this SG, but I fear the big body would make me look silly


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 25, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Anyway, I love this SG, but I fear the big body would make me look silly



I'm a fatty, so it'd make me look normal .

The oversized body on my Buckethead LP Studio is nice for treating fat-guy-with-little-guitar syndrome, haha.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 25, 2013)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> I'm a fatty, so it'd make me look normal .
> 
> The oversized body on my Buckethead LP Studio is nice for treating fat-guy-with-little-guitar syndrome, haha.



I'm slightly jealous of this, especially since I like the Buckethead LP so much. Even RG's look a bit too big on me. My head and shoulders are slightly larger than what would seem appropriate for the rest of my body, so anything bigger than like an ESP M-II, Caparison Horus, Gibson Nighthawk, etc. brings out the disproportion.

It's probably all in my head.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 25, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I've had Richlite on several guitars now, and it rules. Feels and looks cleaner than ebony, has awesome attack... what more could you want? It being environmentally "friendly" is an enormous plus.(



Not to mention it doesn't warp and it's a shit-ton more durable. 

But people will disregard it just because it's "paper mache."


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## jwade (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm actually more interested in the guitar BECAUSE of the richlite. I'm about to begin a luthier course, and my girlfriend and I have plans for future woodworking related ventures that would heavily rely on only sustainable/renewable materials. I think it's awesome that these big companies aren't afraid to be using alternatives, and I look forward to trying this guitar soon. I had a Dean guitar back in the mid-nineties that had an ebony fretboard, and I've always regretted selling it. If richlite is as indistinguishable from ebony as everyone says, it will probably make its way into my builds in the future.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 26, 2013)

Sounds like it would also be good for fretless guitars. No need to do like Jaco and epoxy the board.


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## mitchybang (Oct 26, 2013)

This guitar is crap and the fretboard is crap. Perfect example right here. I just got done playing one. Notice the chunk out of the fretboard. There were numerous imperfections all over the fretboard.


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## shawnperolis (Oct 26, 2013)

^ Yup, looks like typical Gibson quality to me.


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## mitchybang (Oct 26, 2013)

shawnperolis said:


> ^ Yup, looks like typical Gibson quality to me.



That's exactly what the salesman at Sam Ash said Hahahaha.


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## jwade (Oct 27, 2013)

man, that's a bummer. hopefully not all blew through QC without being checked.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 27, 2013)

How was it aside from the chip?


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## mitchybang (Oct 27, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> How was it aside from the chip?



Well, minus the fretboard feeling chalky and soft and all the imperfections. It wasn't too bad. It was really light. I would have heavier gauge strings on it and different pickups for sure. The pickups were very mid heavy and lacked definition. 

Honestly all kidding and shit-talking aside... Not worth what they were asking for it.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 27, 2013)

mitchybang said:


> I would have heavier gauge strings on it and different pickups for sure. The pickups were very mid heavy and lacked definition.



Really? Huh. It has the same pickups and scale length as my Buckethead Studio, and I _love_ the tones I get out of it. I wonder if the issue for you was more a problem with the gauges, the amp/EQ, or just different tastes.


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## jwade (Oct 27, 2013)

yeah that's surprising to hear. those pickups are crazy versatile. what kind of amp were trying this through?


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## JamesM (Oct 27, 2013)

I can't even imagine the neck dive.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Oct 27, 2013)

JamesM said:


> I can't even imagine the neck dive.





Grand Moff Tim said:


> It has an oversized body to go with the extra scale length, so the dive won't be as bad as everyone seems to be assuming it will be.



.


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## mitchybang (Oct 28, 2013)

Supeizingly the neck dive wasn't that bad. I bet it's because of that new fretboard material in conjunction with the oversized body. 

I played it through a few different amps. A Blackstar head, 5153 (which sounded best), a Marshall JCM 900, and a Mesa Dual Rec. 

I think I could have made it sound decent with my Axe Fx II. Lol. 

I'd take a PRS SE Mushok baritone over that Gibson SG baritone. Half the cost too.


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## jwade (Nov 25, 2013)

So I played one of these on Saturday. For starters, I loved the scale length so much. Pretty sure that 27" is my absolute ideal scale length. I've got the 28" Les Paul baritone, and the 27" SG was immediately much more comfortable for me. Loved it.

As for specifics, the pickups were, of course, stellar. Same as in my LP, and they just work so well. I don't know how anyone could fail so miserably at dialing in a decent sound, but hats off to you for managing to make such excellent pickups sound bad, because it took no effort on my part and they sounded absolutely incredible. Huge low-end, nice warm cleans, silky-smooth lead lines with the neck pickup, massive Black Sabbath tone for days, and that was through an Orange Dark Terror! I can only imagine how ridiculous this would sound through my Thunderverb 200 watt.

The fretboard material was actually really quite nice. Smooth-playing, very comfortable. In terms of how it felt to play, I'd describe it as sitting in the middle of ebony and rosewood. Didn't mind it at all. There were no issues with the fretboard on this guitar either, no chunks missing or imperfections of any sort. Shit looked like an absolutely perfect slab. The weight of the guitar was quite nice, very light, didn't have horrible neckdive (actually didn't have any at all, and I played standing for a good 20 minutes). The headstock has a very thin black binding to it, looked classy as shit in person. Loved the grover tuners, but didn't like the partially clear/partially white volume + tone knobs, and the control cavity plate was cheap plastic that looked not great.

Now for the issues. Unfortunately, my phone was dead at the time, so I wasn't able to take any pictures for illustrative purposes. The nut was unbelievably poorly done. It was ground in such an uneven, offensively amateur manner that I hope the person who cut it is in fact mentally handicapped, or blind. That's the only way I could excuse such a shoddy job. It was too wide, razor sharp on the corners facing the fretboard, sloped at such an drastic angle that I guarantee chunks of the corian will snap off the first time the strings are changed. It's funny that on the product page it says: 


> The nut is made from Corian&#8482; and cut on Gibson&#8217;s PLEK for optimum precision.


It's very obviously been hand-shaped, as you could see the various non-uniform filing/sanding marks. Unless Gibson has a 'random/uneven cutting/filing' option on the PLEK machine, I have to call absolute bullshit on their product page. String depth was incredibly wrong too, the two highest strings were cut so deeply that there was less than 2/32nds of clearance, and the two lowest strings were barely slotted at all, both essentially resting in light grooves as opposed to there being proper slots, way too much clearance. Laughably bad nut, seriously.

Second glaring issue was the nut slot itself. It was verrrrry roughly cut, like...worse than the blue PRS SE 7 nut I posted pictures of awhile back (http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/3493047-post821.html). The SG had deep, impossible to ignore cuts around 2-3 mm long that actually went through the finish. 

Third issue, the back of the neck had indents. 4 of them, to be precise. 4 fingertip sized indents in the finish where someone must've tried to take the guitar down before the clearcoat was finished drying. 

Fourth problem, and this is a very minor, nitpicky one. The fretboard had corian dust all over the first 4 frets. Not sure how you wouldn't notice white dust on a very dark inlay-free fretboard, but hey, it's Gibson, home of the blind-as-shit-or-too-drunk-to-care QC crew. I just scrubbed that off with my sleeve and got on with playing.

I had completely forgotten until just now that it's supposed to have coil-tapped pickups. Would've loved to try that. Ah well.

After playing with it for a good half an hour, I decided that the various issues were either things I could fix myself, or things that were minor enough to ignore, so I brought up the various issues (and mentioned that it had clearly not been set up properly, nor intonated, nor QC'd) with the L&M employee and said "If you guys will drop the price a bit to reflect the fact that it's definitely got some defects and needs some work, I will walk out of here with it today." He went over to his manager and came back a minute later and said "He says that he won't discount the guitar at all, and that he guarantees that we'll be able to sell it at that price point, regardless of the supposed issues." Further reinforcing the belief that Long & McQuade doesn't give a shit AT ALL about it's customers, nor do they have any interest in selling quality products. Quantity, not quality. Idiots. If they'd dropped the price by a couple hundred, I would've dropped the cash on the spot. Now? I'm just going to build my own.

That being said, if you see one in a store, go take a close look at it, and if it doesn't have the typical hallmarks of Gibson's occasional 'rushing and forgetting to QC anything' tactic of late, you might be able to snag a really nice instrument (limited to 500, too).


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## last_for_death (Nov 26, 2013)

All white is the way to go on that guitar.


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## littlemurph7976 (Nov 28, 2013)

I wish they'd do a studio version so us mere mortals could afford one


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## jwade (Nov 28, 2013)

Dude, it's a Gibson USA for $1400! That's really not a high price.


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## littlemurph7976 (Nov 28, 2013)

They're over £1000 here in England though, there are many other guitars I'd rather have at that price point. I can understand it's price if it's MIA though, I hadn't paid attention to that part at all.


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## MatthewK (Dec 1, 2013)

Oh my god, I would die if they made this in Les Paul form. I want a buckethead signature without the killswitches so bad.


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