# Full stack question



## Mondo (Jul 13, 2011)

Since my band is having a show coming up and I'll most likely be the only guitar player, would it be a good idea to get a second cab and put it on the other side of the stage?


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## conorreich (Jul 13, 2011)

You may be able to ask the sound guy to run you in stereo, so you wouldn't have to do that.


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## Mondo (Jul 13, 2011)

conorreich said:


> You may be able to ask the sound guy to run you in stereo, so you wouldn't have to do that.


 

I thought of that, but it isn't a big enough show to run everyone through a PA, even though we should anyway..

Sadly everyone in this town thinks you need to play a huge show to get miced up.

I was just worried about our how we would sound with a guitar player on one side, 2 vocalists, and a drummer.

Would a full stack be the best option?


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## conorreich (Jul 13, 2011)

It wouldn't be a bad idea in that case, especially if you don't have a bassist. Personally I think music sounds thin if you don't have two guitarists or like Veil of Maya having a guitar and a bass. Try it and see how it goes.


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## Mondo (Jul 13, 2011)

conorreich said:


> It wouldn't be a bad idea in that case, especially if you don't have a bassist. Personally I think music sounds thin if you don't have two guitarists or like Veil of Maya having a guitar and a bass. Try it and see how it goes.


 

I totally agree about the thin sounding part.

Origianally I was the bassist, but we had to kick out our guitar players, so I filled in one of the spots and we're having trouble looking for members.


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav (Jul 13, 2011)

Yeah, definitely have one cab on each side, if you can. For a while, I was the only guitarist in my band, and whenever we played, people on the bassist's side could only hear the bass, and people on my side could only hear me. 

Also, IMHO, the music will sound kinda thin anyway without bass, so you may want to also run your guitar clean into an effect that will bend the pitch an octave down (Morpheus Droptune, Digitech whammy, etc) and run that into a bass amp. It won't sound perfect, but it's better than having no bass at all. I hate just rehearsing without a bass. I can't imagine playing live with out one. Best of luck, man.


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## Mondo (Jul 13, 2011)

I didn't even know they made pedals like that!
I am so freakin glad I joined this forum lol I've learned so many new things in 3 days lol

I'll look into purchasing one locally before the show, how much do you think one would cost me?


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## kamello (Jul 14, 2011)

Zeno said:


> Also, IMHO, the music will sound kinda thin anyway without bass, so you may want to also run your guitar clean into an effect that will bend the pitch an octave down (Morpheus Droptune, Digitech whammy, etc) and run that into a bass amp. It won't sound perfect, but it's better than having no bass at all. I hate just rehearsing without a bass. I can't imagine playing live with out one. Best of luck, man.


 

but if he plays chords or something with 4 strings or more would it sound
muddy? I haven't tried doing this so idk....




Mondo said:


> I didn't even know they made pedals like that!
> I am so freakin glad I joined this forum lol I've learned so many new things in 3 days lol
> 
> I'll look into purchasing one locally before the show, how much do you think one would cost me?



I bought a Morpheus like 5 months ago, I paid $200 for it, but i never tried it live, only band practice, it's pretty good at medium-high volume levels
(when you don't hear the strings), the cleans although sound a bit distorted, but im not sure if it is because of the guitar cable, my amp, or the pedal


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## shanejohnson02 (Jul 14, 2011)

Another trick to make a single guitar sound huge is to run a delay on one side. I split my signal right and left, and put a 7ms delay on the left channel, with the repeats all the way down and the level all the way up. This way, it reproduces the exact same sound as the right channel, only 7ms later. This creates the illusion of stereo space, and can actually sound like 2 seperate guitars in some instances. I'd still run the sub-octave thing too though, just to fill out the low end.


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav (Jul 14, 2011)

kamello said:


> but if he plays chords or something with 4 strings or more would it sound
> muddy? I haven't tried doing this so idk....l



Nope, it wouldn't get all those weird tracking errors that other octavers and harmonizers get. It's made to be used as an alternative to tuning down a guitar, so they have made sure it sounds good.




Mondo said:


> I'll look into purchasing one locally before the show, how much do you think one would cost me?


They're both $200 new, but the Morpheus is only for going town, where as the whammy can do all sorts of shit. It can go 1 or 2 octaves up and down, it can harmonized, and a ton more stuff that have no clue about. However, in this case, I would go with the Morpheus. however, you will also need a signal splitter to go before it, probably right after your guitar, unless you want the "bass" to have all the distortion and effects of your guitar.

And keep in mind, the Morpheus is not a permanent bass solution. because whatever you do, the "Bass" would be doing, too. So, guitar solos would sound very odd. This is merely a temporary fix. And afterwards, then you have something to use, in case you ever need to do quick, emergency tuning changes, like tuning down a guitar with a floating trem in the middle of a show, in case that's your only back up. So don't let the other guys in your band think that just because you have this, you don't need to look for other members.

Also, the running a very short delay in stereo is a damn good idea. John Pettrucci does the same exact thing live. But, keep in mind that you now have 3 signal chains to deal with, which means that there is a lot of room for error, and a lot of time to fix a problem.

But anyway, good luck! hope everything works out. If I were near you, I'd offer to fill in, but my advice will have to do.

*rant over*


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## Mondo (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks for all the info guys!
I'll definatly look into getting the morpheus and signal splitter.

Thanks guys!


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav (Jul 14, 2011)

For the signal splitter, look at the LiveWire ABY box. It's about $50


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## shanejohnson02 (Jul 14, 2011)

If you use the delay thing, get a good delay that can actually go low enough. TC Electronic Nova Delay is my weapon of choice.



Zeno said:


> Also, the running a very short delay in stereo is a damn good idea. John Pettrucci does the same exact thing live.



That's exactly where I picked it up from...some interview video on youtube. I tried it at the next show I did, and got an incredible number of compliments on how it sounded.

Good luck!


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## Bribanez (Jul 23, 2011)

shanejohnson02 said:


> Another trick to make a single guitar sound huge is to run a delay on one side. I split my signal right and left, and put a 7ms delay on the left channel, with the repeats all the way down and the level all the way up. This way, it reproduces the exact same sound as the right channel, only 7ms later. This creates the illusion of stereo space, and can actually sound like 2 seperate guitars in some instances. I'd still run the sub-octave thing too though, just to fill out the low end.


 


I'm gonna try this tonight!!


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## budda (Jul 23, 2011)

Do you guys not have friends who could fill in...?


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## Mondo (Jul 23, 2011)

budda said:


> Do you guys not have friends who could fill in...?


 

I'm 17 lol all of the good guitar players in my area live 2 cities away and are in other bands.

Plus even if they did say yes when I asked them to help me out, I doubt they could have learned the material in time.


Thanks to everyone who gave input, the show went great  
I bought the signal splitter and borrowed the delay pedal and morpheus from a friend.


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## Quitty (Jul 24, 2011)

Running a little late here, but still;
Don't know how much it'll help with your bass issue (no real solution there, IMO. Get a bassist, ASAP), but running stereo with delay added to one side can cause major issues, especially if you're mic'ed up.

In my experience (and obviously, to my tastes) depending on the type of music, you *can* run a gig with no bass guitar and still sound relatively full.
The simple version is to make your left signal vary from your right one. For me, i have an emulated out on my preamp - so i run one side direct to the PA from the emulated out and the other one mic'ed from my amp to compensate for the lack of a second guitarist.

The 'advanced' version would be to do the above, but run one side of your stereo signal into a bass cab via a pedal EQ and cut everything above 300hz or so.

But yeah, just get a bassist. They're a dime a dozen


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## Kurkkuviipale (Jul 24, 2011)

shanejohnson02 said:


> Another trick to make a single guitar sound huge is to run a delay on one side. I split my signal right and left, and put a 7ms delay on the left channel, with the repeats all the way down and the level all the way up. This way, it reproduces the exact same sound as the right channel, only 7ms later. This creates the illusion of stereo space, and can actually sound like 2 seperate guitars in some instances. I'd still run the sub-octave thing too though, just to fill out the low end.



Actually 12ms would be the optimal for the maximum stereo spreadage. It's called "The Haas Effect".

E: 12ms is also optimal to prevent phase issues.


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