# Is 26.5 as good as 27 scale? Is it baritone territory?



## lucasreis (May 8, 2012)

I'm having this doubt. It's really hard to get a baritone in Brazil and I've been wanting a new guitar with a bigger scale. 

The only kind of guitar I was able to find is a Schecter 7 string guitar with 26.5 scale. I want to know if it holds up as good as a 27 baritone scale, which was my goal (I wanted a seven-string baritone guitar).

What's kind of advice you guys can give me about this?


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## DavidLopezJr (May 8, 2012)

Depends on what you're tuning to. I've noticed 26.5 can hold a low F# fine but you have to get a way heavier string to do a Low E.


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## Vostre Roy (May 8, 2012)

You'd barely notice a difference with a 0,5" scale difference.

To answer your question, "baritone" is more about tuning than guitar scale. Baritone instrument were initially made because back then, very thick guitar strings were not very common and to be able to down-tune a guitar while using regular string gauge, you'd have to boost the scale to get more tension. Nowaday, you can tune to the baritone area (B and A standard) with a 24,75" scale instrument with thick string gauge.

So, it depends about wich tuning you want to go to and wich string gauge you want to use. Like I said, there would be a difference between 26.5" and 27", but its not really that big. And I don't think that many big companies makes 27" instrument (ESP and Ibanez seems to stay at 25.5 while Schecter add an inch to their 7s).

Dunno if that helps. Cheers!


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## lucasreis (May 8, 2012)

Vostre Roy said:


> You'd barely notice a difference with a 0,5" scale difference.
> 
> To answer your question, "baritone" is more about tuning than guitar scale. Baritone instrument were initially made because back then, very thick guitar strings were not very common and to be able to down-tune a guitar while using regular string gauge, you'd have to boost the scale to get more tension. Nowaday, you can tune to the baritone area (B and A standard) with a 24,75" scale instrument with thick string gauge.
> 
> ...



That clearly helps.

I already have a seven string, but I want an instrument with a bigger scale. I feel that the scale I have now doesn't really favor the way I play the instrument, it has a lot of buzz, etc. 

I know that baritone has to do more with the tuning, but I was really talking about scale in this case. I'm really interested in this guitar and now I think that this 26.5 scale is really interesting. I'll probably sell my guitar and buy this one! Thanks a lot


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## lucasreis (May 8, 2012)

DavidLopezJr said:


> Depends on what you're tuning to. I've noticed 26.5 can hold a low F# fine but you have to get a way heavier string to do a Low E.



I normally tune to standard B, but I like to tune down sometimes to Drop-Ab/G#.


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## RobZero (May 8, 2012)

lucasreis said:


> I normally tune to standard B, but I like to tune down sometimes to Drop-Ab/G#.




i had a c-8 atx, 26,5'' is perfect for that tuning. the F# with a 0.74 was fine at that scale but i felt it was the limit, i needed a .80 string to get the E tight enough.


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## Vostre Roy (May 8, 2012)

lucasreis said:


> I already have a seven string, but I want an instrument with a bigger scale. I feel that the scale I have now doesn't really favor the way I play the instrument, it has a lot of buzz, etc.


 
Buzzing issue can be caused by a bad setup. If you never brought your guitar to a profesional tech, it might actually solve that issue.

And noprob for the help. I got a 25.5" 6 string Schecter, a 26.5" 7 strings Schecter and 28.625" Warmoth baritone Telecaster, so I'm currently experimenting with different scale, and its fun


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## yellow (May 8, 2012)

had a schecter damien elite 8 at 26.5" and now an ibanez rg2228 at 27" and the 1/2" is a little better for a tight low end. is it a huge difference, no, its a 1/2", but 26.5" on my B standard damien elite 7 is just fine so i can see where the 8th string can be helped with that extra little bit.


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## Purelojik (May 8, 2012)

yellow said:


> had a schecter damien elite 8 at 26.5" and now an ibanez rg2228 at 27" and the 1/2" is a little better for a tight low end. is it a huge difference, no, its a 1/2", but 26.5" on my B standard damien elite 7 is just fine so i can see where the 8th string can be helped with that extra little bit.



^this. my seven string is a 27.5 and i can tune it to standard 7 tuning and go way the hell lower. no shrill tones on the high notes. if anything it makes everything sound better and more punchy.

now that being said it does get some getting used to. im used to a 25.5 les paul i built from warmoth parts. so the low frets are just a little farther away from eachother. muscle memory serves me right though and over some time im able to negate the difference


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## Jayd41 (May 8, 2012)

I have a 26.5 7 string that sounds and plays great down to g# so I think the 26.5 scale will be perfect for what you are doing. 
I do have a 27" 6 string and the tension difference when they are tuned to the same notes is negligible.


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## lucasreis (May 8, 2012)

Jayd41 said:


> I have a 26.5 7 string that sounds and plays great down to g# so I think the 26.5 scale will be perfect for what you are doing.
> I do have a 27" 6 string and the tension difference when they are tuned to the same notes is negligible.



Thanks a lot for the reply. This is really good to know!!


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## SeVen77 (Sep 22, 2014)

yellow said:


> had a schecter damien elite 8 at 26.5" and now an ibanez rg2228 at 27" and the 1/2" is a little better for a tight low end. is it a huge difference, no, its a 1/2", but 26.5" on my B standard damien elite 7 is just fine so i can see where the 8th string can be helped with that extra little bit.



Im sorry buddy but in a sense youre wrong. 
26.5 scale could handle more then B standard. I dont know what your talking about when youre saying " but my 26.5" on my B standard damien elite 7 is JUST FINE" 
25.5" seven 7's are tunded to B standard. So a 26.5 could easily handle Ab/G# or a little lower with the right string gaugaes.


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## TBF_Seb (Sep 22, 2014)

SeVen77 said:


> Im sorry buddy but in a sense youre wrong.
> 26.5 scale could handle more then B standard. I dont know what your talking about when youre saying " but my 26.5" on my B standard damien elite 7 is JUST FINE"
> 25.5" seven 7's are tunded to B standard. So a 26.5 could easily handle Ab/G# or a little lower with the right string gaugaes.



Probably a matter of taste and right hand technique, too. And there are limits to intonation vs. guitar setup.

FWIW, my RG2027 is 25.5", standard B tuning with a 0.60 for low B. I'd like to have more tension i.e. a thicker string, but the saddle is at its limit and I would not be able to compensate for a thicker string. It's a great guitar but in an (for me) ideal world it would have an 26.5" scale.


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## Steinmetzify (Sep 22, 2014)

Over 2 years old...


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## Intensity guitars (Sep 22, 2014)

I've grown fond of the fan fret. The treble side feels and bends like usual and the bass side has great tention without having to be to creative or very a lot in gauges. I only had about a 15 minute learning curve with the fan.


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## 7stg (Sep 22, 2014)

The ESP E-II HORIZON NT-7B, Jackson b7, and Carvin DC7X are all 27 inches.


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## guitarheroguy (Oct 9, 2017)

sorry guys very noob question.

is 26.5 baritone different from a 26.5 ??

edit:
some staff in guitar shop, i asked him about the guitar, and i asked if 26.5 is baritone guitar and he said no, its a 26.5 but not baritone..

im so confused lol


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## Nlelith (Oct 10, 2017)

Nice necrobump. Anyway, in guitar community, "baritone guitar" usually means that its scale is longer than 'standard', to accommodate lower tunings. In other cases "baritone" may be used to describe tuning of the instrument, regardless of its scale length. And some people call guitar baritone only if it's 28-30" scale and is already tuned down.

So yeah, 26.5 is 26.5, doesn't matter if someone considers it to be a baritone or not.


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## Krucifixtion (Nov 3, 2017)

26.5" is totally fine for a 7 string going down to G or possibly even F#/F, but for an 8 string 27" and up I find to be necessary.


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## USMarine75 (Nov 3, 2017)

Some would say 25.5" is baritone territory...


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## DudeManBrother (Nov 16, 2017)

I have some interesting sentiments regarding what constitutes a baritone guitar; but I’m going to save them for the next necrobumb in 2020


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## EverDream (Nov 25, 2017)

To me baritone is a term which describes an instrument that has it's lowest tuned note approximately right between the bass and tenor instruments in pitch, of any given instrument family. Since I consider a standard 6-string guitar tuned to E tuning (E2 lowest note) the tenor of the guitar family, and a standard 4-string bass guitar tuned to E tuning an octave lower (E1 lowest note) the bass of the family, a baritone in this case would be a guitar that is tuned to A# (A#1 lowest note). Additionally the scale length should also be right between standard lengths (34" for bass guitar, and 25.5" for guitar), using the geometric mean (sqrt(34*25.5)), so in this case approximately 29.4" should be the scale length.

However the scale length is more important, and thus the dictator of what the instrument should be called, and not the tuning, but the tuning can influence what you may want to call it if it is between guitar and baritone (or baritone and bass). I'll explain. So a Baritone Guitar would refer to an instrument with a scale length of approximately 29.4", so I'd say any guitar that is between 27.4" and 31.6" is a baritone guitar, a guitar between 31.6" and 34" is a short scale bass or a long scale baritone guitar, and a guitar between 25.5" and 27.4" is a long scale guitar or a short scale baritone guitar.

So if you have a baritone guitar tuned to standard E guitar tuning for example, I'd call that a high tuned baritone guitar, and if you have a regular scale length guitar tuned to A#, I would call that a low tuned guitar and NOT a baritone guitar. If you had a 26.5" or 27" guitar tuned to C# or higher I'd call it a long scale guitar, but if you have it tuned to C or lower I'd call it a short scale baritone.

So what I'm saying is that the scale length really affects the tonal characteristics, and the term baritone is something which should be referring to tonal characteristics that sound between guitar and bass guitar, and not simply the pitches. The longer the scale length, the lower the voicing of the tone, the more suited to lower pitches it becomes. So as scale length increases, the guitar tuning should also get lower to match. So a longer scale instrument is designed and optimized for a lower tuning, and if you tune low on a shorter scale, it's still a guitar, just a low tuned one, but tonally sounds like a guitar and not a baritone. If you tune higher on a longer scale, it's still a baritone, just a high tuned one, but tonally sounds like a baritone guitar still. So the scale length really dictates what kind of guitar it is, but ideally the tuning should be matched to the scale length.

Sorry, I know this is a very convoluted explanation, I'm not that good at being concise, lol. Anyway that's my personal view on what a "baritone guitar" is, lol.


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## BetterOffShred (Nov 26, 2017)

I have an RG852 and it's a 27" scale. I have an 80 for the low E, and I feel it's more than adequate. I'd think a 26.5" would be fine for f# .. It's really more of a product of your technique and playing style. I've made 42's down to C sound good in a pinch.


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## 27InchScale (Aug 23, 2020)

DudeManBrother said:


> I have some interesting sentiments regarding what constitutes a baritone guitar; but I’m going to save them for the next necrobumb in 2020



Its 2020.... lets hear your version of what a baritone is.


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## DudeManBrother (Aug 23, 2020)

The 1931 Rickenbacker Electro-Spanish Ken Roberts was the first commercially made “full scale” guitar, which was 25” scale length. Therefore anything longer than that is baritone. In general: Gibsons are short scale, PRS are full scale, and Fenders are baritone.


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## Zhysick (Aug 23, 2020)

Dude, three years waiting for this but
Man, that's s a good answer. I'm glad I did. Cheers
Bro


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## sleewell (Aug 23, 2020)

26.5 is perfect for 7s.

26.5 and 27 are not baritones.


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## ElectricBaliset (Aug 23, 2020)

DudeManBrother said:


> The 1931 Rickenbacker Electro-Spanish Ken Roberts was the first commercially made “full scale” guitar, which was 25” scale length. Therefore anything longer than that is baritone. In general: Gibsons are short scale, PRS are full scale, and Fenders are baritone.



Worth the wait.  Also, interesting sentiment indeed.

As for 26.5" scale length, this is probably a lot more info than the OP was ever looking for, but I figure it's worth gathering up and posting _somewhere_ here.



> Is 26.5 as good as 27 scale?



sleewell's right. For the purposes of a 7, pretty much yes, particularly if you're turned to B standard or drop A.

If you want to go lower, the short answer is "it depends on several factors." More on that below.



> Is it baritone territory?



Eh; "baritone" means a lot of different things lately, depending on who you ask - it seems to be

a tuning;
a specific guitar type (regardless of tuning); and
a more-or-less meaningless marketing term that accompanies buzzy copy like GREAT FOR DROP TUNINGS.
I err on the side that it's a specific type of instrument. I think of it like the bass - it can be tuned any which way, but its associated with, e.g., a specific tone, design, configuration (tuning hypotheticals aside), and role in the band. I think it's safe to think of a baritone in the same sense:

it's traditionally associated with a throaty tone that falls somewhere between guitar twang and bass thump;
it's often longer in scale than a standard guitar (obviously, though it _can_ also be seemingly otherwise identical in design to a standard guitar);
it's typically tuned lower _by default_, regardless of how it _can_ be tuned; and
while it doesn't necessarily play a role "between" a typical bass and treble guitar, it is typically regarded as capable of standing in for the role of either instrument, or sometimes even both at the same time (spaghetti western music comes to mind). Take that with a grain of salt, though, because the modern use case of baritone guitars is wide enough in scope that I imagine there's a quick and valid counter to this one.
Based on the above, I think a baritone guitar should be expected to be fairly different in feel and cosmetics from a traditional bass or guitar. There are easy counter-responses to this, like that baris typically use pickups fitted for standard-scale guitars, but many pickup manufacturers cater specifically to the tuning needs of baritones nowadays.

With that in mind, I'd put the "proper" bari scale range somewhere between about 29.5" and 30". I can't find the post atm, but I like the methodology used by someone here, of considering the arithmetic and geometric means of the most common guitar and bass scales (25.5" and 34") as a guide - those land respectively at 29.75" and about 29.44". I like also adding 30" into both equations (since 30" is variously regarded as both a long-scale bari and a short-scale bass) and calculating your averages based on 3 values - both of them fall within the former two boundaries, which imo further cements the idea that that whole range is somewhere close to the middle of the band of valid baritone ranges. (It may be fair to count values a bit shorter than that two, though, considering that most baris are tuned down a fourth from standard, placing them slightly closer to a treble guitar in terms of range).

In any case, by that definition, sleewell's right here too. Neither 26.5" nor 27" really qualifies as baritone range, but like I say above, that doesn't mean they don't sound excellent for the typical range of a 7-string. They won't have the signature tone of a baritone, but they'll have good harmonicity and a tight, achievable tension with out a need for heavier strings.

In my opinion, where the two scale lengths differ is on the cusp between G1 and F#1. Technically, you can't really achieve a harmonicity comparable to e.g. 25.5" #2 on either of those scale lengths at F#1 without sacrificing significant tension, but I'm able to tolerate what I get on 27" with reasonable string gauges. A Kalium .073 will get you just under 16.5 lb. of tension at F#1 at 27", and it sounds _okay_; at 26.5", you miss this by about 0.7 lb. (which is manageable, but significant enough to be somewhat annoying to me). At the next gauge up in Kalium, 0.76, you overshoot it by about 0.75 lb., and you sacrifice tone in the process.

On 26.5" 8-strings in particular, you usually want more tension all around, because they're almost always factory strung with that awful 0.010-0.074 set with ~25-27 lb. on strings 4-6; I've found that redistributing some of that tension across strings 7 and 8 mitigates what would otherwise result in either horrendous string rattle or unbearable tension towards the middle of the neck. (I emphasize using Kaliums here because they seem to be some of the highest-density strings on the market, so you can get away with slightly lower gauges at higher tension.) Based on the above, I wouldn't necessarily recommend tuning down to F# on 26.5" regardless, but G can be made to sound decent enough; a Kalium .070 on 26.5" at G, holds almost exactly the same tension as a .073 on 27" at F#, and it still retains reasonable definition (imo).

Hope this helps somebody, if not OP.


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## Bearitone (Aug 26, 2020)

If would wait til you find something with 28” or more in scale length. Just my opinion though. 

I had a KM7 and found 26.5 was okay for drop A. But, that’s as low as i could go without having to use big ass strings.


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 26, 2020)

DudeManBrother said:


> The 1931 Rickenbacker Electro-Spanish Ken Roberts was the first commercially made “full scale” guitar, which was 25” scale length. Therefore anything longer than that is baritone. In general: Gibsons are short scale, PRS are full scale, and Fenders are baritone.



well Gibsons are definitely short scale. At least we can agree on that.

The new prs 245...I dub it...boomer scale.


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## 27InchScale (Aug 28, 2020)

Does anyone know what the shortest scale guitar that was marketed as a BARITONE would be?


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## Mathemagician (Aug 28, 2020)

DudeManBrother said:


> The 1931 Rickenbacker Electro-Spanish Ken Roberts was the first commercially made “full scale” guitar, which was 25” scale length. Therefore anything longer than that is baritone. In general: Gibsons are short scale, PRS are full scale, and Fenders are baritone.



Someone merge this comment into the hot takes on gear thread. This one has potential!


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## diagrammatiks (Aug 28, 2020)

Geetarguy said:


> Does anyone know what the shortest scale guitar that was marketed as a BARITONE would be?


 25.5 prs temonti baritone


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## redkombat (Aug 29, 2020)

take what ever dream said and pretend I said it.


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## I play music (Aug 29, 2020)

Bearitone said:


> If would wait til you find something with 28” or more in scale length. Just my opinion though.
> 
> I had a KM7 and found 26.5 was okay for drop A. But, that’s as low as i could go without having to use big ass strings.


If only 28" 7-strings was a thing.. I don't know a single production guitar with that scale length ..


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## asopala (Aug 29, 2020)

Best bet is a Warmoth neck for that.


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## Bearitone (Aug 30, 2020)

I play music said:


> If only 28" 7-strings was a thing.. I don't know a single production guitar with that scale length ..


Try to find a used Agile 728.
Other than that i don’t know of anything else. 

you could go with a semi-custom Balaguer but, that’s much more expensive


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## I play music (Aug 30, 2020)

Bearitone said:


> Try to find a used Agile 728.
> Other than that i don’t know of anything else.
> 
> you could go with a semi-custom Balaguer but, that’s much more expensive


Both sound like good options in the US but not in Europe


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## 27InchScale (Aug 30, 2020)

diagrammatiks said:


> 25.5 prs temonti baritone


Lmao I was refering to way before 2020, but that is a good point. Kinda retarded imo. But I was seeking more like 1950-1960 shortest marketed baritone.


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## vilk (Aug 31, 2020)

When I bought my Schecter Damien series 7 string (26.5" scale) as a 16 year old, it was listed on ... Musician's Friend? (it was a while ago) as a baritone. Not understanding anything about scale length at the time, I assume that "baritone" was referring to the fact that it had a 7th string lol

In me experience, 26.5 does feel like a baritone scale, even if it's a half in shorter than some other ones. You can notice the longer stretches. You notice the tighter strings that are more difficult to bend. It sounds much "snappier". It was more similar in feel and sound to my 28" scale agile than it is to a Gibson.


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## Forkface (Aug 31, 2020)

no experience with 27 inch, but i got my schecter 7 (26.5) set with the lower 7 strings of an 8 string set, tuned to low E, and it handles no problemo, i actually think it feels very nice, tensionwise. 
low E string is a .74 iirc


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