# F# Tuning - ???



## IshiiKurisu (May 19, 2011)

Hello Guys!
Really fast [and noob] thread: my guitar player will play an 8 string guitar tuned F# [F# B E A D G B E], and I'm not pretty sure what should I do: do I downtune my bass to F# [F# B E A][new strings BTW] or I play my 4 strings bass at E tuning [E A D G]?


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## MaxOfMetal (May 19, 2011)

Depends on what you want to be playing. If you're going to be following the guitar parts, than make your life easier and tune to match.


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## Winspear (May 19, 2011)

I've thought about this too. 
Firstly, I'd talk with him and consider the riffs etc that you intend to be playing. Consider if drop E would be a better option. It may have little impact on the riffs themselves, but allow you to play them in the same octave Meshuggah style without all the worry about strings etc. This approach may be more sonically pleasing in the long run. 
I'd match EBEADGBE with a bass in BEAD (if 4 string, high G if 5). That way you can do the ordinary heavy riffs on the B string an octave down, and any lower stuff in unison.

If the guitarist is staying in F# and you have a 4 string, I'd tune it UP to F# B E A. I think you'd benefit having the low B though...playing B string riffs in the same octave isn't nearly as effective.


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## Winspear (May 19, 2011)

If the standard tuning shape is important to him and you don't have a 5, I'd probably tune to B F# B E.


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## TomAwesome (May 20, 2011)

+1 to the last two posts. It just depends on what your gear can handle and whether or not you want to tune your bass down that low.


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## chimp_spanner (May 20, 2011)

I've mixed feelings on this. I do currently have a bass tuned to F# (RBX775) and it handles it just fine using a .145 for the F# and then the top four strings of a standard five string set.

Buuuuut it does get a bit tiresome on the ears having that much going on down so low.

I think the key is to have it set up to match the 8 string, but just use that lowest string when you really need it. You can get way more interesting bass parts if you play from the B string onwards. Will also make B sound heavy as shit by comparison as well! That's my own experience anyway.


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## IshiiKurisu (May 20, 2011)

chimp_spanner said:


> Buuuuut it does get a bit tiresome on the ears having that much going on down so low.



Well, I'm so deaf [from +-25hz to 13000hz, I think I have a serious problem] that I think I wouldn't be able to listen to a so low bass, I'd use my tuner and my friends to tell me if I'm playing right or not.

Anyways, the riffs are very doom- and drone-y with some "spider riffs" like "Crazy Train", "Cowboys from Hell", "Master of Puppets", etc [the standard tuning is very important here] which I think it'll be great if the bass follows the guitar in these parts. So, I think the best option would be tuning my bass Drop B, so I'd have the F# open string, which helps a lot, but I still would have the low sound. I'll make a test here, in a couple of days I'll answer you.

Thanks!


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## Konfyouzd (May 20, 2011)

Honestly I say do whatever is most comfortable for you so long as everything sounds good. I had some friends who played in B standard but the bass player kept his bass in E standard EADG and he followed the band just fine.


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## anne (May 20, 2011)

I say absolutely go for the low F# if you can get a 5-string or are willing to tune in fifths or if you don't use your top string that much. It'll be there when you need it, and if you don't, just don't play it. As long as you're not writing all your songs in F# (which is a bad idea anyway), you just have another tool in your toolbox of cool shit. Getting an F#-workable rig takes some effort though, if you do decide to try it.


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## Kali Yuga (May 20, 2011)

So, can 34" scale basses get a low F without much problem?


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## Winspear (May 20, 2011)

F or F#? Either way - it's pushing it in my opinion. Try specialized strings like the Circle K ones. Aside from that, there's the 145 gauge D'addario but I've found I don't like it any looser than G# and that's on a 35". 
Going from that experience and the comments people make on the improvement of the low B on 37" such as Dingwalls, I don't think it's very ideal. But with the right strings, it can be done.


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## anne (May 20, 2011)

Kali Yuga said:


> So, can 34" scale basses get a low F without much problem?



F# on a 35" designed for B is going down 5 semitones. F on a 34" designed for E is going down 11 semitones. Won't be easy, but you can probably do it.


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## Kali Yuga (May 20, 2011)

I was planning on grabbing an Ibanez Soundgear 6-string when I need to start recording bass, which is 34" scale. Should I look around to see if there's a 35" 6-string within my price range (500-1000 USD) instead? I'm a guitarist, but need a bass around the home studio.


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## Winspear (May 20, 2011)

I'd definitely suggest so - especially if you ever plan on tuning lower than B. I think my 35" with a 130 is LOVELY for B, would much prefer a 37" for my G# 145 though.


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## IshiiKurisu (May 23, 2011)

Guys, It's really hard. I think I'll keep the standard tuning and be the master I already am [lie] and fuck it all. But...

1. Who said that the band played using B strings but the bass kept playing using the standard tuning? HOW DID HE DO THAT?

2. Kali, how many strings your guitar has?


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## Bigfan (May 23, 2011)

IshiiKurisu said:


> 1. Who said that the band played using B strings but the bass kept playing using the standard tuning? HOW DID HE DO THAT?



Well, a four string still has plenty of B notes scattered around the fretboard. In fact basses have all 12, just like guitars!


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## Winspear (May 23, 2011)

Yeah I think it depends heavily on the style of stuff your playing. I don't know the scene but I get the impression that a lot of bassists in funk/blues etc just work around chord charts rather than riffs so it's easier to transpose to different places.

If your playing typical metal style riffs with root note open strings all over the place then yeah, it's pretty much impossible haha.


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## Winspear (May 23, 2011)

You could always do something unusual and tune with a low-high F# haha. 
I.e F# B E A but with the F# an octave higher. 
That way you can play exactly the same as him but it will just come out sounding like the unison-octave stuff. You still have the low B there, and the E and A strings for riffs on those.


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## IshiiKurisu (May 25, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> You could always do something unusual and tune with a low-high F# haha.
> I.e F# B E A but with the F# an octave higher.
> That way you can play exactly the same as him but it will just come out sounding like the unison-octave stuff. You still have the low B there, and the E and A strings for riffs on those.



It would be great , but two little problem$: money [Or I can buy a wire, it's the same of buying a string huge enough to accept this tuning] and my ears [in fact, I can't hear the bass tuned F#0. I'M DEAF! FCK!], but I'd love to do that one day.

Anyways, it was my first idea, but dispite my problems... I think it'd be better to play with the standard tuning. [Trying to find a better solution]


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## IshiiKurisu (May 25, 2011)

Bigfan said:


> Well, a four string still has plenty of B notes scattered around the fretboard. In fact basses have all 12, just like guitars!



I meant to say: Doesn't it sound a bit strange? The bass, at least to me, would sound very treble to me, not bass-y like it should, you know?


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## Daken1134 (May 25, 2011)

Warwick Dark Lord strings.... answer to all your problems, expensive... but worth it


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## SD83 (May 25, 2011)

IshiiKurisu said:


> It would be great , but two little problem$: money [Or I can buy a wire, it's the same of buying a string huge enough to accept this tuning] and my ears [in fact, I can't hear the bass tuned F#0. I'M DEAF! FCK!], but I'd love to do that one day.
> 
> Anyways, it was my first idea, but dispite my problems... I think it'd be better to play with the standard tuning. [Trying to find a better solution]



If I understood it right EtherealEntity meant F#1. Are you sure you wouldn't hear it? As far as I know, when tuning to F#0, pretty much no one will really hear the fundamental (~23 Hz), but the overtones. So if you can't hear anything below 25 Hz, you will still hear 95% the same as normal people (in this case, at least). 
The problem with the expensive strings remains the same... I'd try the above suggestions... F#1 B0 E1 A1


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## IshiiKurisu (May 25, 2011)

Daken1134 said:


> Warwick Dark Lord strings.... answer to all your problems, expensive... but worth it



I think they don't sell Warwick strings here in Brasil, and to bring it from USA will cost my ass. Anyways, it's nice, 'cause I've never heard about these Warwick strings. My friend Internet told me they're made for F# tuning... GROSS!


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## IshiiKurisu (May 25, 2011)

SD83 said:


> If I understood it right EtherealEntity meant F#1. Are you sure you wouldn't hear it? As far as I know, when tuning to F#0, pretty much no one will really hear the fundamental (~23 Hz), but the overtones. So if you can't hear anything below 25 Hz, you will still hear 95% the same as normal people (in this case, at least).
> The problem with the expensive strings remains the same... I'd try the above suggestions... F#1 B0 E1 A1



As fas as I concern, the F# tuning is F#0 B0 E1 A1. It's good idea to tune the bass F#1 B0 E1 A1, very strange but useful tuning for what I'm gonna play, it's like the 5 strings open G tuning for Banjo [gDBGD, really loveful to play], but used in the bass!  
Just saying: the last time I did the test [homemade, ok, but it's test], I can hear from ~25Hz to ~13000Hz. I don't know if it's a family stuff or if it's a problem, but I have a problem here  [DEAF (new tuning?) !].


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## Winspear (May 25, 2011)

Yep I meant F#1  Your hearing is about correct if that's sine waves. You mainly hear the overtones of guitars, like SD83 said. Playing F#0 on bass needs good gear to really sound good.


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## IshiiKurisu (May 28, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Yep I meant F#1  Your hearing is about correct if that's sine waves. You mainly hear the overtones of guitars, like SD83 said. Playing F#0 on bass needs good gear to really sound good.



Actually, I'd need an EQ and a compressor pedals, wouldn't I? Well, I haven't got all that money to buy strings and two pedals, they cost my whole payment [lie, half of mine]
But that's a good idea! Thanks!


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## anne (May 30, 2011)

Those are two pedals you should have anyway.


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## IshiiKurisu (May 31, 2011)

anne said:


> Those are two pedals you should have anyway.



Yeah, it's true, but while I can survive without them, I'll keep'em a bit far away from me... it's a matter of money, ok?


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## anne (May 31, 2011)

IshiiKurisu said:


> Yeah, it's true, but while I can survive without them, I'll keep'em a bit far away from me... it's a matter of money, ok?



If it's a matter of money, then yeah, low F# is definitely gonna be tough.  Sorry, duder.


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## IshiiKurisu (Jun 1, 2011)

anne said:


> If it's a matter of money, then yeah, low F# is definitely gonna be tough.  Sorry, duder.



Yeah, I've realized that... it's gonna be better if I just keep the E tuning and fuck it all...


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## ixlramp (Jun 2, 2011)

Consider all-fourths C#1 F#1 B1 E2, top 3 strings in unison with the 3 lowest of the 8 string guitar. With a nice tight .125 for C#.


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## IshiiKurisu (Jun 3, 2011)

ixlramp said:


> Consider all-fourths C#1 F#1 B1 E2, top 3 strings in unison with the 3 lowest of the 8 string guitar. With a nice tight .125 for C#.



Man, you deserve a Nobel Prize for that idea. Thanks!


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## jeremygxxx (Jun 4, 2011)

A low F# just sounds way too low to me. I'd use B F# B E and use the low B as much as possible.


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## carcass (Jun 5, 2011)

I have been thinking about this for a while and I get one idea -> downtune the guitar one step down to *E tuning* - E-A-D-G-C-F-A-D and problem is solved, you can have 4 string bass in E-A-D-G tuning or 5 string bass in E-A-D-G-C tuning .. what do you think?


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## Winspear (Jun 5, 2011)

^ That is indeed a good idea  I still think the mix would benefit greatly from having the bass an octave down on the standard strings though, only in unison on the lowest string, hense my idea of F# B E A but with the F# an octave higher.


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## IshiiKurisu (Jun 6, 2011)

carcass said:


> I have been thinking about this for a while and I get one idea -> downtune the guitar one step down to *E tuning* - E-A-D-G-C-F-A-D and problem is solved, you can have 4 string bass in E-A-D-G tuning or 5 string bass in E-A-D-G-C tuning .. what do you think?



HMMM... Yeah, I think it's better...
Only my guitarist will have to care about tunings. In fact, he's already going too far playing with 8 strings. If he wanna do something diferent, he shouldn't change the band's whole structure only for his inventions for 3 or 4 songs.
You also deserve a Nobel Prize for that. Too obvious idea, but into oblivion till now.

[I know it wasn't so humble, but I needed to say that.]
[Respect ERG & ERB players]


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## penguin_316 (Jun 8, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Yep I meant F#1  Your hearing is about correct if that's sine waves. You mainly hear the overtones of guitars, like SD83 said. Playing F#0 on bass needs good gear to really sound good.



^^^can you expand on this? I just recently got a 5 string bass and was gonna go the low F# route on the 5th string. i understand there is a limitation on gear such as amps+cabs...but what about direct recording with an AxeFX or a line6 Pod.

I remember Bulb posting some stuff with a low F i think on bass and it sounded so sick... I think he was using PodXT and a Palmer to record it direct though.


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## Winspear (Jun 8, 2011)

I don't know about the AxeFX etc. I'm sure it's easier to achieve with that.
It's just generally hard to hear the difference between notes etc. It can sound beefy in a mix and the guitars provide the note definition there. 
Entirely up to you - I just tend to prefer the unison that Meshuggah use for low tuned riffs like that past G# or so.


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## IshiiKurisu (Jun 9, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> I don't know about the AxeFX etc. I'm sure it's easier to achieve with that.
> It's just generally hard to hear the difference between notes etc. It can sound beefy in a mix and the guitars provide the note definition there.
> Entirely up to you - I just tend to prefer the unison that Meshuggah use for low tuned riffs like that past G# or so.



 That's true.

And I also don't know about that AxeFX. I even don't know what that is.


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