# Agile Argus -- look at this thing



## ghoti (Nov 28, 2009)

Agile Argus LPB at RondoMusic.com







Looks like their take on a Bass VI.


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## CooleyJr (Nov 28, 2009)

I can't decide if I like this or not...


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## lefty robb (Nov 28, 2009)




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## Randy (Nov 28, 2009)

Jesus, you need some long strings on that thing.

Also:



> *# 30" Scale 6 String Guitar By Customer Request !*



Alright, somebody fess up...


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## gatesofcarnage (Nov 28, 2009)

Cool but not for me..


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## hypermagic (Nov 28, 2009)

The black one with the the toaster pickups looks awsome.


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## darren (Nov 28, 2009)

I'm trying to get my bandmate to buy one of these to fill the gap between his sixes and his seven.


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## awesomeaustin (Nov 28, 2009)

i dig it

im in the midst of building a tele version of this


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## pink freud (Nov 29, 2009)

DeathSurf. It has possibilities.


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## lefty robb (Nov 29, 2009)

Question is would the single coils hold up to brutal 30" low tunings.


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## darren (Nov 29, 2009)

Why would they not?


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## pink freud (Nov 29, 2009)

darren said:


> Why would they not?



Don't you know that Single Coil pickups explode when subjected to frequencies below 65Hz?


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## Esp Griffyn (Nov 29, 2009)

darren said:


> Why would they not?



Perhaps because Single coils have a tendancy to sound thin and tinny at the best of times?


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## baryton (Nov 29, 2009)

"Setup to intonate with 24 34 44 56 72 84 gauge strings"


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## Tom Drinkwater (Nov 29, 2009)

The 30" 6 string is the most misunderstood instrument in the electric guitar family ever. You can approach it like a bass or a baritone. In fact you can tune the 30" guitars to A or B and they sound great. Single coil pickups are great for this kind of guitar. I have lipsticks in both of my Danelectros and while I can't get a great distorted sound out of it my brother can. Otherwise it has a nice deep but not too bassy tone that allows you to play guitar lines and bass lines. It's all about technique really, not the pickups. If you are trying to make this a metal guitar you have missed the point completely though. It works really well with a guitar and a bass in the mix as well.


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## Apophis (Nov 29, 2009)

not so bad, being honest even quite nice


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## Xk6m6m5X (Nov 29, 2009)

is it a 30" or 34" cause at the top of the page it says 30" but where it says scale lenght it says 34"


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## Setnakt (Nov 29, 2009)

It is 30" scale.

You could play metal on that but you'd have to swap out the bridge pickup. The 30" guitar is not that different an instrument really. I've never liked how they've been marketed as a bass on that note.

It's a cool instrument, you just have to find a use for it that's probably not the same any other random guitar.


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## whisper (Nov 29, 2009)

hypermagic said:


> The black one with the the toaster pickups looks awsome.



I agree


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## Cheesebuiscut (Nov 29, 2009)

Tom Drinkwater said:


> The 30" 6 string is the most misunderstood instrument in the electric guitar family ever. You can approach it like a bass or a baritone. In fact you can tune the 30" guitars to A or B and they sound great. Single coil pickups are great for this kind of guitar. I have lipsticks in both of my Danelectros and while I can't get a great distorted sound out of it my brother can. Otherwise it has a nice deep but not too bassy tone that allows you to play guitar lines and bass lines. It's all about technique really, not the pickups. If you are trying to make this a metal guitar you have missed the point completely though. It works really well with a guitar and a bass in the mix as well.



You could tune it to standard as well, or slap an o4+ on it and tune it to A standard above E!

We know 

Not my thing but cool that hes makin it. Great for experimenting at that price.


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## Sponge (Nov 29, 2009)

Oh man that has cool potential. That looks like it would sound excellent with some southern twang or bluegrass, or if Tom Waits had a guitarist who played that.


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## MF_Kitten (Nov 29, 2009)

i would love to get that and just use it as a regular funk-rock type guitar in drop d or drop c


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## AvantGuardian (Nov 29, 2009)

I really like the look of that guitar, but I don't think it'd get enough use for me to justify picking one up. Plus I hate the Jazzmaster style tailpiece.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Nov 29, 2009)

> You could tune it to standard as well, or slap an o4+ on it and tune it to A standard above E!
> 
> We know


 
Definitely. 


It will be really hard for me to not buy this guitar. I have 2 others like it and I have wanted the Fender Bass VI for a long time.


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## kslight (Nov 29, 2009)

Hey guys I'm more of a lurker here...but I mentioned awhile back that he was making this because I'd bugged you guys about the 30" Intrepids... (never got a response...) 

This is the guitar that myself especially and some others have been pestering Kurt to build for about 9 months now...essentially a bass VI (see Fender if you don't know what I am talking about). Here is the current thread we are on if you want to be involved with our discussion: TalkBass Forums

This isn't designed as a metal guitar (from what I understand you guys already got that ...yeah the Intrepid looks cool too and I'd like to get one some day...but I don't play metal so it'd be a $700 toy for me). Some people think of it as a bass, some people as a baritone...I think everyone who owns one plays it a little different. I personally play a bass VI (I use a Schecter Hellcat VI, which is kind like the Agile but with humbuckers and no vibrato) like a long guitar, I play full chords and deep melodies (see old The Cure...go to Youtube at videos for "High" and others in that time period). Others just put flats on it and play it like a tic tac bass. 

But for those interested, at least on the Hellcat VI I can plug into my Metal Muff and use the bridge pickup for some seriously heavy tones (when I recorded a song like this with my old band another recording engineer asked me how I got such a heavy guitar sound...I said by not using a guitar!) because of the heavy strings and long tight scale it is much thicker sounding than a drop-tuned guitar or 27/28" baritone. But this also makes it not ideal for a full on shred-fest IMHO, because your band will probably sound like mud if you have two of these as well as a "regular" bass player... 

And yes...it is a 30" scale despite the error on the page.. It is currently setup for 24-84 strings (D'Addario XL156), but actually the standard gauge string for MOST Bass VI players is 25-95 (offered by Fender, GHS, and LaBella). However I think that the Agile Argus will require some degree of modification to accept the 95, according to Kurt he thinks I will have to drill out the tuner, and that if there is significant interest in the guitar then he will change it in future revisions. 

The Jaguar tailpiece is there by request, though I'd be surprised if he didn't offer a stop version if he ends up doing more runs of the Argus. The Jaguar tailpiece is there because it offers a slightly longer scale (makes a Fender Bass VI be about 30.3" vs. 30"), as well as just retro cool because Schecter chose not to put a vibrato bar on there for the Hellcat VI (the cheapest decent Bass VI out there until the Agile Argus). It is obviously a little difficult to bend chords with your fingers on a stop tail Bass VI...

The single coil pickups are there because one of the problems we have with the Schecter Hellcat VI is the humbuckers...while they cut noise obviously, they are not bright enough, they make the guitar sound a little muddy, even when using the coil tap. This is also one of the biggest differences between the Fender Bass VI and the Schecter...the Fender always has used single coils. 

You can buy long scale light baritone strings (D'Addario makes them) that allow you to tune a 30" guitar A-A or B-B if you prefer, though I've never tried it I know that some people like that but it kind of defeats the purpose of a Bass VI in my opinion.

I ordered the Agile Argus Toast because I prefer the looks to the LPB (though I normally prefer a 3 pickup configuration for a Bass VI, which adds a couple of "bass" emphasizing tones, since I already have the Hellcat VI I don't really need that). As far as I know I'm the only person off of our forum that has ordered one, since I have been bugging Kurt the most on this I wanted to be the first guinea pig...

$399 is very reasonable IMHO I expected it to be in the range of the Intrepids actually. For reference the Gretsch 5265 is $525 (and a piece of crap from what I've heard), the Schecter Hellcat VI is $599, and the Fender Bass VI is discontinued so you'll have to cough up $3000+ for a Custom Shop model that someone still has in stock (most recent production), or pay $$$$ for a vintage on eBay. 


Please if you have any further questions about this kind of guitar feel free to direct them to the forum linked above...we'd be glad to help you out...any ERG players are encouraged to check out the Agile Argus because more demand = more runs/different colors and features.


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## ellengtrgrl (Nov 29, 2009)

pink freud said:


> DeathSurf. It has possibilities.


 
 That actually might be cool to try!! When I had my baris, and was bored, I'd occasionally play brootalz versions of the definitive baritone guitar song - Glenn Campbell's "Wichita Lineman". I was kind fun to do, and cool sounding in a goofy sort of way. 



Setnakt said:


> It is 30" scale.
> 
> You could play metal on that but you'd have to swap out the bridge pickup. The 30" guitar is not that different an instrument really. I've never liked how they've been marketed as a bass on that note.
> 
> It's a cool instrument, you just have to find a use for it that's probably not the same any other random guitar.


 
The reason they're probably marketed as a bass, is due to the fact that up until the 70s, most basses (such as Gibson's EB-3, Hofner Beatle Bass, and at least some of the Fenders), only had a 30" scale lengths.



Tom Drinkwater said:


> The 30" 6 string is the most misunderstood instrument in the electric guitar family ever. You can approach it like a bass or a baritone. In fact you can tune the 30" guitars to A or B and they sound great. Single coil pickups are great for this kind of guitar. I have lipsticks in both of my Danelectros and while I can't get a great distorted sound out of it my brother can. Otherwise it has a nice deep but not too bassy tone that allows you to play guitar lines and bass lines. It's all about technique really, not the pickups. If you are trying to make this a metal guitar you have missed the point completely though. It works really well with a guitar and a bass in the mix as well.


 
+1

The Agile Argus, is basically like a copy/variation of a Fender Bass VI








I know some players who have retuned & reset the Gretsch Jet Baritones (also 30" scale instruments) from being 6-string basses to baritones tuned B to B, or C to C, with great results. One guy even said that it was his favorite bari, due to the extra clarity and punch the 30" scale length gave it compared to a standard 26-28" scale bari. I played one, and it was a cool instrument. I'm just not a fan of Bigsbys.







Ditto for the Schecter Hellcat VI, which also has a 30" scale. I tried out a Hellcat VI at Interstate Music's brick and mortar store (Cascio Music - it's only about 4 miles from where I live) about 10 months ago. Even tuned as a 6-string bass, it sounded great through a Marshall DSL 2000, and had coil splitting to boot. Its mini humbuckers gave it grind and punch, that the other baris I used to have, lacked. I was torn about buying it, due to the fact that 3 pickup guitars usually end up being a waste of my money (I hardly ever use the middle pickup on them). Still, every now and then, I regret not buying that Hellcat VI. It would have sounded great IMO, retuned, and re-set up as a baritone.







And I also agree about the Dano baris. I had a lot of fun with mine! They had great note clarity, and a really gnarly distortion sound. 

The main problem I had with baritones, was how to treat them as an instrument. IMO, they're sort of neither fish nor fowl. They're not really a bass, nor a standard 6-string guitar. So, you pretty much have to write/invent their role in a band context. This was brought home to me, when I took an Eastwood Sidejack Baritone I used to have, to a basement blues rock band thing I was in about 8 months ago. The other players had a real hard time dealing with it in the instrumentation. Most lead guitar parts you'd play with a bari, could just as easily be done by a regular 6-string, and you can't really play as high note-wise as a regularly tuned guitar (which is one of the reasons why I got into 7-strings). But still, there are times I miss my baris. It also couldn't really do the bass thing very well. But, baris do have a sound that basses, and 6 and 7-string guitars just don't have. It's unique IMO. It's just that like 8-strings are a novelty for some players, baris turned out to be a novelty for me. Still, if I could find one stupid cheap, I might be tempted to get it.


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## TemjinStrife (Nov 29, 2009)

Properly played, you can get some very convincing bass tones out of these, then turn around and roll the tone knob up for chords and solos. I'd really like to get a Hellcat VI someday as I prefer the look and the stoptail, although the Argus is definitely decent-looking.

How do the toaster pickups sound?


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## kslight (Nov 29, 2009)

> Properly played, you can get some very convincing bass tones out of these, then turn around and roll the tone knob up for chords and solos. I'd really like to get a Hellcat VI someday as I prefer the look and the stoptail, although the Argus is definitely decent-looking.
> 
> How do the toaster pickups sound?



With the correct pickup setting and played through an actual bass amp, I could play my Hellcat VI like a bass and you wouldn't know the difference. The trick is using the neck+middle or middle+bridge pickup settings as these create a significant bass emphasis. You can also get flats by LaBella which would probably make it even more convincing.

I think the mini-humbuckers on the Hellcat VI are too muddy even coil-tapped...the main drawback of this kind of guitar is finding the right tone for your style. If you play it like a bass...probably not an issue. If you play chords, it is definitely an issue that you have to creatively address. That can be either in your amp settings (and amp choice!), as well as pedals (I custom built an overdrive for my VI which clears it up quite a bit when needed). The way that Fender chose to address this issue is with a "strangle switch," which is basically a HPF, so by cutting out some bottom you gain some clarity. Having single coils vs. humbuckers doesn't hurt either. Keep in mind that the features of the Agile Argus are designed to compensate for the shortcomings of the Hellcat VI...so if the only reason you want a Schecter is for the stop tail then I would personally suggest to hold out for a stop version of the Argus. 

I won't have my Argus Toast until later this week so I have no idea how the toasters sound...


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## ellengtrgrl (Nov 29, 2009)

Sorry I didn't explain myself clearly enough. If you leave them tuned as a 6-string bass, they're pretty decent sounding basses (although their shorter 30" [ala a vintage bass] scale, doesn't give them the snap, we've come to associate with the longer scale basses that are so prevalent nowadays). My main bone of contention about them properly filling the role of a bass instrumentation-wise, is when they're tuned as a baritone. It's not that their tone is no good (I like the sound of baris - IMO, they have a nice, pleasant growl to them, even when they're played clean), but that they CAN'T hit the low notes a bass can hit. It's sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Tune 'em as a bass, and you can't do as much of the guitar stuff, that's played up in the higher ranges. Tune them as a baritone, and you can't lay the low down grooves a bass can do. As I mentioned earlier, you basically have to invent your own sonic role for a baritone guitar. For me, they were a fun change of pace from regular guitar stuff. But, at the present time, I can't necessarily justify getting one for what they cost, since it would be more of a novelty instrument to me, unless I can get one stupid cheap (I will admit that the Argus with toastertops is looking interesting to me - especially at a $300 pricetag), or I suffer overwhelming GAS (which I occasionally get close to with the Hellcat VI [that's what I get for trying one out]).


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## kslight (Nov 29, 2009)

> My main bone of contention about them properly filling the role of a bass instrumentation-wise, is when they're tuned as a baritone. It's not that their tone is no good (I like the sound of baris - IMO, they have a nice, pleasant growl to them, even when they're played clean), but that they CAN'T hit the low notes a bass can hit. It's sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Tune 'em as a bass, and you can't do as much of the guitar stuff, that's played up in the higher ranges. Tune them as a baritone, and you can't lay the low down grooves a bass can do. As I mentioned earlier, you basically have to invent your own sonic role for a baritone guitar.



I agree that a bass VI or a baritone guitar player has to define their own sonic space. I mean there are some songs by The Cure where they have two bass VI players, a guitar player, and a bass player (and a keyboard player, drummer, singer...). I had a band awhile back where I was the only guitar/bass player, and so there were songs where I'd play one part as a bassist and one part with melodies and one part with chords...which the hellcat Vi pulled off pretty well. Currently I'm wanting to configure myself in a two piece band...just me and a drummer...maybe a piano or organ player too... I think I'd fight with a guitar player sonically too much the way I like to play, so who need them?  

I disagree about the high end of a bass Vi being a serious limitation sonically...the only high end you don't have is in super-shredder territory, which I don't play in on regular guitar anyway. And to fill out more high end sometimes I use a POG pedal with octave up. Part of the Bass VI sound I hear in my head is defined by how the upper register sounds on those heavy strings more than how the lower register sounds...I have always loved to play in the upper register on 4 string bass, only made sense that I got a bass VI. I personally think that the bass VI is a superior configuration to a standard baritone for flexibility, because at one time you can play like a bass, you can play high melodies...or you can play rhythm guitar parts when needed (see Jack Bruce).


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## ellengtrgrl (Nov 29, 2009)

kslight said:


> I agree that a bass VI or a baritone guitar player has to define their own sonic space. I mean there are some songs by The Cure where they have two bass VI players, a guitar player, and a bass player (and a keyboard player, drummer, singer...). I had a band awhile back where I was the only guitar/bass player, and so there were songs where I'd play one part as a bassist and one part with melodies and one part with chords...which the hellcat Vi pulled off pretty well. Currently I'm wanting to configure myself in a two piece band...just me and a drummer...maybe a piano or organ player too... I think I'd fight with a guitar player sonically too much the way I like to play, so who need them?
> 
> I disagree about the high end of a bass Vi being a serious limitation sonically...the only high end you don't have is in super-shredder territory, which I don't play in on regular guitar anyway. And to fill out more high end sometimes I use a POG pedal with octave up. Part of the Bass VI sound I hear in my head is defined by how the upper register sounds on those heavy strings more than how the lower register sounds...I have always loved to play in the upper register on 4 string bass, only made sense that I got a bass VI. I personally think that the bass VI is a superior configuration to a standard baritone for flexibility, because at one time you can play like a bass, you can play high melodies...or you can play rhythm guitar parts when needed (see Jack Bruce).


 
I agree, they work best in a 2 piece (or at the most 3 piece) band. Played in a band with a bass, you don't want to clash with the bass sonically. 

As for playing high melodies with a Bass VI style instrument - well, to me calling them shredder highs seems like a dirty term, for the higher range stuff (it connotates tasteless widdly widdly playing done for the sake of showing how fast you can play) a baritone or (for lack of a better term) Bass VI style baritone can't reach, but yeah, not being able to reach shredder highs, is one of the main shortcomings of them. It's probably what drove me to finally get a 7-string after all of these years. I've done a large percentage of the lead guitar work in the bands I've been in. While I don't always go up to (what you call) shredder highs, I do occasionally, so it's nice for my guitars have that capability. 

For me to really get into baritone guitars (of the regular, and the longer 30" scale Bass VI variety), I'd have to pick up where I left off with my last baris - trying to develope the bari stylistically, as a lead instrument. It might be cool to do (after all I played the brass counterparts [registerwise] of the baritone guitar, the valve trombone, baritone, and euphonium, as solo instruments, quite often in jazz, and symphonic bands, up until I quit playing those instruments in my college years). But I ain't gots the finanaces to throw down a big chunk-o-change to do so at the present time.


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## Trespass (Nov 29, 2009)

I would love an acoustic version, maybe a 12 string with the second course entirely an octave higher. Then just use it to lay down utterly massive chords on recording.

In terms of sonic space and instruments with that undefined role, think a bit of the baroque. The basso continuo part was played by whoever was present in the ensemble: Harpsichord, lute, bass viol, and various combinations thereof. Sometimes all at once. Modern day baroque ensembles may feature interesting things like that. Naturally, being acoustic, they kind of mix and balance themselves against the strings.


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## InCasinoOut (Nov 29, 2009)

Oh man, i love it! It would be PERFECT for really dark, doomy, stoner sludge.


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## kslight (Nov 29, 2009)

I think there is a niche market for an acoustic bass vi, I have heard about someone having one custom made and I would totally buy one in a heartbeat if the price were reasonable. 

A 12 string would be interesting...not sure how one would pull that off exactly, I am pretty sure I have seen a custom job on another forum though. I think that the 30" scale would be pushing the limits of the octave strings (which you are suggesting would be tuned like a standard guitar, right?). I also think it would require god himself to play it. 

So I think a 12 string might be slightly impractical (though cool, I think my POG does the job decently), what I would like to see is a bass vii...the 7th string as a high a. This would give you full bass and baritone range. It would also enhance the usable chord range, because the low e is tricky to use as a root sometimes. Definitely would still need a vibrato tail though...do they make a non-metal looking 7 string vibrato?

Er here... Acoustic bajo sexto strings....something like this? 
La Bella Bajo Sexto 12 String Stainless Steel Wound Loop End, 6 Courses, BX120

Well you can get acoustic electric bajo sextos all day on eBay for like $200, but they are 25.5" scale...bet it intonates like crap. Might be a cool studio toy to have though.


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## Obscura (Nov 30, 2009)

I prefer this;






Agile Harm 1 Nat Ash Extended Scale Guitar at RondoMusic.com


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## Bungle (Nov 30, 2009)

I don't know if it's funny or appropriate that "Argus" is pretty much the sound one makes when they vomit.


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## TheHandOfStone (Dec 1, 2009)

30" Scale 6 string
Scale length: 34"

Anyone else notice that? 

EDIT: Damn you, s!



Obscura said:


> I prefer this:
> 
> Agile Harm 1 Nat Ash Extended Scale Guitar at RondoMusic.com



Fapfapfap.


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## JerkyChid (Dec 3, 2009)

Obscura said:


> I prefer this;
> 
> 
> 
> Agile Harm 1 Nat Ash Extended Scale Guitar at RondoMusic.com


 

I need money lol


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 5, 2009)

Obscura said:


> I prefer this;
> 
> 
> 
> ...




G to G would = awesome on this thing.


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## kslight (Dec 5, 2009)

Why g-g, why not e-e an octave down like it's designed for?


Btw, here is a link to my review of the agile argus toast.

Agile Guitar Forum - - Agile Argus Toast Review + Comparison + Sound Samples


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## Daggorath (Dec 6, 2009)

They should definately make a barebones baritone 6er at like 28" or maybe 30". Like 1 bridge pickup, hardtail, natural finish and 1 volume knob. I reccon they'd shift some of them.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Dec 8, 2009)

> I would love an acoustic version, maybe a 12 string with the second course entirely an octave higher. Then just use it to lay down utterly massive chords on recording.


 
I definitely agree. Having played this type of guitar for over 10 years I can't tell you how much I have thought about a 12'er with the second set tuned up just like a standard guitar. It would be like playing through an octave pedal, sort of. An acoustic version like this?
The contrabass or contra - the"double bass"of the guitar orchestra


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