# Helix 3.5 just dropped



## thebeesknees22 (Nov 3, 2022)

Helix 3.50 Release Notes


Helix/HX 3.50 (released November 3, 2022) includes 24 new cabs running on an all new cab engine, 5 new amps, 7 new effects, new features, additional improvements, and bug fixes, and is strongly recommended for all users. How do I update to 3.50? IMPORTANT! The 3.50 update process may take 30 MINU...



line6.com





I won't have a chance to check it out for a while

it's a big huge cab update, along with some amps and fx.


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## sleewell (Nov 3, 2022)

woooooo hooooo!!!

cant wait to check it out.


wow mic positions on cabs, that is awesome. sunn model T and peavey invective amps too. and those EQD pedals look rad too. going to be fun!


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 3, 2022)

shoot. server issues

Looks like I need to redownload the Updater too. It's giving me json errors. But I can't re-download it 'cause of the server issues. 

sigh...back to work I suppose.


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 3, 2022)

I can't wait to get this loaded up after rehearsal tonight. I've developed a love affair with my York Audio IRs so I really want to check out the new cabs. Along with the major DSP hit upgrade, I'm stoked.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 3, 2022)

same. I pretty much just use York IR's too.

There are some videos up on youtube now on the update. It looks similar to other cab sim things out there where you can place the mic around.

I can't say in terms of quality until I try them out though.


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## thrashcomics (Nov 3, 2022)

This is an exciting update. All the cab stuff is dope but SUNN MODEL T!!!!!!!!


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## MASS DEFECT (Nov 3, 2022)

This probably won't ALL be available in the Pod Go. Makes me sad. The cab updates are cool. Looks like they listened to feedback that their cabsims were not up to par.


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## ATRguitar91 (Nov 3, 2022)

Sweet! I loved the Vitriol model when I demoed the Metallurgy plugin and was looking forward to it being added. The new Plumes OD will also probably a favorite of mine. Really looking forward to getting updated.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 3, 2022)

Cool to see the rumors of a dual IR loader were true AND they added the Invective models. Might have to poke at this later.

EDIT: AND they managed to make the cabs/IR loader more efficient. Awesome.


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## budda (Nov 3, 2022)

Enjoy your model T!


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## thrashcomics (Nov 3, 2022)

Lets see tone-matching in HX 3.55!


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## Lemonbaby (Nov 3, 2022)

Nice, running the update tomorrow...


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 3, 2022)

it took me about 3 tries to get it updated in my helix floor. Just a heads up. I think it was just server issues

native downloaded no probs though


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## AwakenTheSkies (Nov 3, 2022)

The cabs! They actually did It!! I'm so fucking hyped


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## Veldar (Nov 3, 2022)

Boss OC-2 is a great addition, really helps working bassist like myself


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## Tree (Nov 3, 2022)

God damn I’m excited! I’m sick as fuck so I can’t do anything for a while, so this is killing me.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 3, 2022)

I'm diggin' the Pillars OD and the other fx a lot, and vitriol crunch on the first quick test.

I'll need some time to go through all the cabs since it's such a massive update. On a first pass it's cool. the interface is clean and straightforward, and the tonal range to play with is really big. On a first test they feel really kind of in your face and up front if that makes sense. Which I'm really digging since it's a nice contrast to what I have with my York IR's. 

I do wish there was a phase flip option for when combining mics on the dual cab option so I can hear what I'm cancelling out. Maybe there is and I'm just missing it.Overall it's a really awesome update. I like the new amps a lot a lot too. 

I'll have to play with it more later though. All that above is just my initial impression. I need a whole weekend to really dive into it.


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## AwakenTheSkies (Nov 3, 2022)

Really liking the new sounds too! I'm using a very aggressive sounding guitar with new strings so that might be helping... But yeah wow..I can't wait to try reamping a mix with this!


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## NotQuiteWes (Nov 3, 2022)

After trying a patch with the old cabs vs the new cabs. Definite improvement. I think the phrase is "taking a blanket off of your speaker". That definitely is accurate to this update.


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## thrashcomics (Nov 3, 2022)

Redid my outboard preamp patch with the Pillars in place of the Stupor and I REALLY like it.


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## Xaeldaren (Nov 4, 2022)

All this juicy stuff (along with one of the switches deciding to flake out) might push me to upgrade from the Pod Go to a stomp in the near future.


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## Spinedriver (Nov 4, 2022)

I only have the HX FX, so I am looking forward to giving the new od & reverb effects a shot. The dual IR seems promising as well. I may give it a try, even though I already have a Two Notes CAB M .. just to see how much of a difference there is.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 4, 2022)

Downloading it now, holy shit I've been so stoked for this, and on a day I work from home! Fuck yes! 

I'll report back soon....


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## CanserDYI (Nov 4, 2022)

thrashcomics said:


> This is an exciting update. All the cab stuff is dope but SUNN MODEL T!!!!!!!!


Oh my god I didn't even see this god I'm so stoked


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## ATRguitar91 (Nov 4, 2022)

Got updated and spent some time with the new stuff; the cabs are awesome. I remember doing some A/Bing with Metallurgy between the new cabs and my usual York Audio IR's, and the new cab models definitely compete with the best IR's. The only quibble I have is that they didn't include the 409 dynamic. I really liked that mic to help tame brighter tones. Either way, these reworked cabs are definitely a game changer for Line 6 I think. I still might use my IR's occasionally for the simplicity, but the granular control you get with these cabs is great.

I didn't even try the Vitriol Crunch, because as soon I switched to the Vitriol lead I was hooked. It doesn't sound drastically different from the existing 5150 model, but it is way easier to dial in. The Panama model requires some funky settings, but the Vitriol sounds amazing on the default settings. The only thing I did was increase the depth and get to riffing. The Plumes OD also sounds excellent. 

As always, I'm blown away by the support Line 6 provides. When I bought my Stomp I didn't anticipate much change since it was already well into the product cycle, but they are really doing everything they can to ring this architecture dry.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 4, 2022)

Fellas at line 6, line up. You're all getting fellated today. Like what kind of service is this? Fantastic service, this. How did I buy a device damn near 5 years ago and they still are updating it with their newest tech. It's just insane that they haven't wised up and charged for this shit, thank you, you fine folks. Thank you.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Oh my god I didn't even see this god I'm so stoked


The Sunn T's aka moonwhatever they call it is goooooood. I like it a lot.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 4, 2022)

So they have to just be making way more money building an existing model helix over and over again instead of redesigning a new hardware product, and instead make their money back by drumming up hype around their awesome updates and having people buy "old hardware" that they've already recouped r&d funds on? It does make sense.


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## ATRguitar91 (Nov 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> So they have to just be making way more money building an existing model helix over and over again instead of redesigning a new hardware product, and instead make their money back by drumming up hype around their awesome updates and having people buy "old hardware" that they've already recouped r&d funds on? It does make sense.


It seems like their newest thing is breaking more into the plugin world with the Metallurgy stuff, and since they already had the new stuff there it's an easy win to port it over. I think they've dropped bread crumbs that the new hardware is in development.


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## Vegetta (Nov 4, 2022)

I will be updating my stomp later today. Looking forward to trying the new toys. So glad they revamped cabs. I have a bunch of IRs but basically just use BrOal's oversized Mesa v30 ir for everything. I am curios to how their Plumes pedal will be and their invective amp should be interesting.


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 4, 2022)

What a difference in the cabs! Even the new stock presets sound useable. Like I could do a demo with them as-is and it wouldn't suck. I didn't even get to the new amps because I was having so much fun dialing in new versions of some of my patches with the new cabs. Definitely as good as any IR I've got.


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## thraxil (Nov 4, 2022)

As an Axe-Fx owner, I hope Fractal is watching this and gets to work on adding a Sunn Model T.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 4, 2022)

The cabs are awesome! Seriously now probably won't even use IRs, they use more DSP to run dual IR block than dual cab block I found. 

Haven't really found a Sunn model that I'm enjoying yet, but not worried. The invective model is fucking awesome.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> The cabs are awesome! Seriously now probably won't even use IRs, they use more DSP to run dual IR block than dual cab block I found.
> 
> Haven't really found a Sunn model that I'm enjoying yet, but not worried. The invective model is fucking awesome.


agreed!
There are only a couple of things I'm hoping we get on the dual cab option that are more ease of life things.
1. phase invert option so I can hear what frequencies are cancelling out between the two mics
2. a solo button for each mic in the dual cab

Other than that I really couldn't ask for more on these new cabs. 

I was hesitant to say if I truly liked the new cabs better than the IR's I own, but giving them a whirl this morning again, I think I do like them a lot better than the IR's I have after A/B'ing on day 2 again with fresh ears. I just really like the upfrontness of the sound if that's a good way to describe it.

Plus It's easier to push something back than to bring it forward and cut through too so having it start in your face from the get go is a good thing. (imho of course.)

The Sunn models are like... pure grunge. Dirty/mean sounding. Not really metal. But that kind of mean angry sound is right up my alley so I'm digging them a lot lol


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 4, 2022)

I just gave the bass stuff a whirl. Holy smokes, it's 100x's better. I really struggled with the previous bass stuff and would usually just settle on the Zero amp, but these new cabs for bass sound fantastic. So much easier to dial in.


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## budda (Nov 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> The cabs are awesome! Seriously now probably won't even use IRs, they use more DSP to run dual IR block than dual cab block I found.
> 
> Haven't really found a Sunn model that I'm enjoying yet, but not worried. The invective model is fucking awesome.


One of the first wishes i ever put in was the model T. Hopefully this speeds that up.


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## StrmRidr (Nov 4, 2022)

I JUST bought a Helix LT two days ago. This patch came in at the perfect time!


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## AwakenTheSkies (Nov 4, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> What a difference in the cabs! Even the new stock presets sound useable. Like I could do a demo with them as-is and it wouldn't suck. I didn't even get to the new amps because I was having so much fun dialing in new versions of some of my patches with the new cabs. Definitely as good as any IR I've got.


New stock presets? Where? I factory restored the thing after the update and the factory presets are still the same. Still using the old legacy cabs...


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## TedEH (Nov 4, 2022)

thraxil said:


> As an Axe-Fx owner, I hope Fractal is watching this and gets to work on adding a Sunn Model T.


I'm also in the Fractal camp right now with an FM3, but I like seeing feedback like this from Helix stuff too. Looks to me like both companies see the value of continued support and added value for their products, and it's a great precedent to set. I know there's more FM3 firmware coming soon too (the beta's out, but I can wait for the full release).

These devices are basically just fancy DSP computers, and there's always room to improve the software. If they just released new units instead of new firmware, it would be a pretty transparent business decision IMO.


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 4, 2022)

AwakenTheSkies said:


> New stock presets? Where? I factory restored the thing after the update and the factory presets are still the same. Still using the old legacy cabs...


If you do the update, do the FS 9/10 reset you should have gotten a new bank of Factory 1 presets with amp models and new cabs. The artist presets still had the old cabs. If you restore from your backup you'll overwrite Factory 1 with the presets from your backup.


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## AwakenTheSkies (Nov 4, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> If you do the update, do the FS 9/10 reset you should have gotten a new bank of Factory 1 presets with amp models and new cabs. The artist presets still had the old cabs. If you restore from your backup you'll overwrite Factory 1 with the presets from your backup.


Did the FS 9/10 as soon as I updated, but still have the old Factory 1 presets with "legacy" cabs. I did see that the default settings for the amp blocks might have changed..


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 4, 2022)

AwakenTheSkies said:


> Did the FS 9/10 as soon as I updated, but still have the old Factory 1 presets with "legacy" cabs. I did see that the default settings for the amp blocks might have changed..


Try again? The first few banks of Factory 1 were minimal presets with amps and new cabs for me.


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## gunshow86de (Nov 4, 2022)

Wow the Invective Lead default already sounds better than most entire patches I put real work into.


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## Mprinsje (Nov 4, 2022)

I love the new cab feature. Sounds so much better than before, I'll probably use these instead of my own ir's from now on.

Also love the vitriol lead, it's the 5150 model but better. The sunn model T model is amazing, especially with that newly added fuzz. It's instant doom and sounds incredible, especially if you use the matching can and the 810 bass cab together with it.

Thanks line 6!


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## Xaeldaren (Nov 4, 2022)

Could someone give a brief idea of what the Vitriol is like compared to the Revv models? I want to know just how envious I should be.


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## ATRguitar91 (Nov 4, 2022)

Xaeldaren said:


> Could someone give a brief idea of what the Vitriol is like compared to the Revv models? I want to know just how envious I should be.


I'm not sitting in front of it, but going off my recollection the Vitriol is thicker and chunkier sounding than the Revv models. There's a fullness to low end and low mids the Revv doesn't have. With enough coaxing the Panama (5150) model is close enough to the Vitriol.


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## MASS DEFECT (Nov 4, 2022)

My bandmate's new Helix cabs sound much, much better than the stock cabs on my FM3. It's a major leap. It's as good as the IRs I have paid for but you get more control. Amazing!


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## CanserDYI (Nov 4, 2022)

Xaeldaren said:


> Could someone give a brief idea of what the Vitriol is like compared to the Revv models? I want to know just how envious I should be.


Vitriol is pure 5153 sounding to me, it's on the thicker side with the resonance control high, and nice and bitey, not too fizzy, but nice top end. The Revv is MUCH more aggressive sounding to me, more mid grind. They're both great but the Vitriol is my new go to.


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav (Nov 4, 2022)

I still prefer the original 5150 model over the Invective, but that Model T RIPS, and of course paired with the Life pedal is pure doom


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 4, 2022)

Just finally got to spend time with it. The new cabs are fucking night and day. I'd use them if I wasn't using an external IR loader to save DSP (Using an HX Stomp XL) And the new Invective is aaaawesome. Sounds and feels closer to the real thing than the original Helix model.
Gonna mess with the Sunn models and the new pedals later.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 4, 2022)

Okay follow up: 
Using the Life pedals together + Model T Bright + Model T and/or Orange cabs in dual mode panned left/right and a 20ms delay on one cab is fucking spot-on drone-doom. Holy fuck I love it.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 4, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Okay follow up:
> Using the Life pedals together + Model T Bright + Model T and/or Orange cabs in dual mode panned left/right and a 20ms delay on one cab is fucking spot-on drone-doom. Holy fuck I love it.


I have a very similar patch going on right now,


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 4, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I have a very similar patch going on right now,


I did it for shits and giggles, but after playing it I'm totally keeping this preset. It's so gnarly and I love it. Only thing stopping it from being perfect is the lack of feedback since I'm using headphones.


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## budda (Nov 4, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I did it for shits and giggles, but after playing it I'm totally keeping this preset. It's so gnarly and I love it. Only thing stopping it from being perfect is the lack of feedback since I'm using headphones.


More gain and or hall reverb. Thank me later.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 4, 2022)

budda said:


> More gain and or hall reverb. Thank me later.


Oh I got plenty of gain, but I'll try the reverb. Will probably help make the tone darker and wetter.
...I hope Cortek Digitech reissues the Feedback pedal.


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## budda (Nov 4, 2022)

I had no issues getting feedback with headphones running two pedals (treble boost into something into amp?) in the axe, should be doable with the helix.


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## op1e (Nov 4, 2022)

I can't wait to try the Life pedal thru my rig and the Model T. Figures I just bought a Swollen Pickle and now I probably won't need it. Kinda weary of the factory reset thing but guess I'll do it.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 4, 2022)

I didn't factory reset but I don't use the stock presets, does it matter?


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 4, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Okay follow up:
> Using the Life pedals together + Model T Bright + Model T and/or Orange cabs in dual mode panned left/right and a 20ms delay on one cab is fucking spot-on drone-doom. Holy fuck I love it.


the 4x12 or the 2x12 orange? 

I was super stoked to finally see the 2x12 v30 show up since that's what my real cab is, and it's just what I wanted  sounds great


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## AwakenTheSkies (Nov 4, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Try again? The first few banks of Factory 1 were minimal presets with amps and new cabs for me.



Yep, no need to do it again. Just needed a restart and it was rebuilding presets again. Now I have them too!


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## op1e (Nov 4, 2022)

Ok the Sunn Life pedal is legit. I hooked up the gain and octave to an expression pedal for lead work. Min gain at 1.9 max at 8 and the octave goes 0-10 at the same time. My clean patch goes from ambient to metal by pressing FS 1 (turns on drive and turns off verb and turns on input gate) then the exp pedal takes it to doom. Legacy Boost Comp at the beginning keeps it snappy.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 4, 2022)

The Pillars OD has no right to sound as nasty as it does. Turns anything in front of it into a ridonkulously tight firebreather.


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 5, 2022)

Not gonna lie, was gonna buy an FM9 when my name came up on the list after selling my FM3, but after reevaluating my actual needs, plus this new cab update, I'm heavily thinking of just buying an HX Stomp...


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## budda (Nov 5, 2022)

MatrixClaw said:


> Not gonna lie, was gonna buy an FM9 when my name came up on the list after selling my FM3, but after reevaluating my actual needs, plus this new cab update, I'm heavily thinking of just buying an HX Stomp...


“Why not both?” - sso


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## OmegaSlayer (Nov 5, 2022)

So regretting that I took the PodGo and not the Helix LT.
But unfortunately my old "rig" broke all of a sudden (the Pod bean...), so I had to purchase what my wallet allowed at the time.


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## STRHelvete (Nov 5, 2022)

*excited dolphin noises*
I just read about this update just about an hour ago on Guitar.com so I ran over to my computer to fire up Native. Super simple to install and the new cabs are awesome. I've been clinging to my usual IRs but these are actually so good that they may replace my IRs. Holy fuckballs.
I played with the invective and it's surprisingly good. I didn't think I'd care much but I can get some really interesting 80's style stuff out of it. I haven't gotten into the other amps and pedals yet but I'm looking forward to it. Man...Line 6 is the G.O.A.T.
The only thing I'd like to see them do now, is a Helix hardware version with a powersection. It's not likely to be a huge hit but I'd like the option of having one..even if they just made a limited supply you could only order through the website or something so they don't pump out a bunch and no one buys them.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 5, 2022)

yeah it's pretty amazing they do such a massive update for free on a piece of hardware that originally came out in 2015. 

like it's not just bug fixes here and there, but a complete overhaul of a major section.  Pretty friggin' sweet I must say. I'm not sure many other companies would do the same.


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## laxu (Nov 5, 2022)

It's impressive what Line6 has been able to cram on a platform with the DSP of a Fractal AX8.

The UI they have chosen is also pretty sensible and works with both editor and onboard user interface. Very welcome update as the cabs were the worst part of the Helix.


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 5, 2022)

I have been contemplating getting a helix rack or a helix stomp (I know complete opposite as far as convenience) and now even more so 

But, I have been trying to wait until Neural DSP has their Black Friday/Cyber Monday sale, but I'm still not entirely sure what I want 

Is the helix line worth it for a home studio kinda recorder? Or is it best to save moolah and stick with Neural plugins? 

I currently have Gojira and Petrucci, plan on getting Plini. Does the helix compete with these models pretty well?

Lastly, does the Helix eat up CPU like the focusrite playing back plugins or just plugins in general? Or is entirely separated from the DAW?


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## STRHelvete (Nov 5, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> I have been contemplating getting a helix rack or a helix stomp (I know complete opposite as far as convenience) and now even more so
> 
> But, I have been trying to wait until Neural DSP has their Black Friday/Cyber Monday sale, but I'm still not entirely sure what I want
> 
> ...


I have damn near every free amp sim that exists and several paid ones. They have their uses for home recording but my Helix sounds better and has far more options.
Ultimately it just depends on what you like. I think Helix Native has a demo you can try so I'd recommend that


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 5, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> I have damn near every free amp sim that exists and several paid ones. They have their uses for home recording but my Helix sounds better and has far more options.
> Ultimately it just depends on what you like. I think Helix Native has a demo you can try so I'd recommend that


Does native offer the same (exact) things the helix itself offers?


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## STRHelvete (Nov 5, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Does native offer the same (exact) things the helix itself offers?


I had the Native and the full sized floor unit at the same time. I recently just sold my floor unit because it was just made redundant.

It's the exact same thing.


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 5, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> I had the Native and the full sized floor unit at the same time. I recently just sold my floor unit because it was just made redundant.
> 
> It's the exact same thing.


Next question, does the helix rack come with native or is it, at all times, separate?

As far as CPU, is it lighter than Neural or about the same? I tend to run a good bit of tracks on a computer that doesn't have the best processor


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## STRHelvete (Nov 5, 2022)

I don't think any of the Helix hardware comes with it stock...maybe there's a bundle thing if you buy brand new? I dunno. I DO know, however, that there is a discount for Native if you have Helix hardware. That's how I got mine.
In terms of CPU I don't know, honestly. My computer is a bit beefy so it can handle it but I'm honestly not sure how your computer would handle multiple instances of Helix. My advice to you would be to download the Helix demo and then try it and see.

Fuck around and find out.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 5, 2022)

ditto on Native for home recording. I never use my floor unit for recording either. Just go straight into your interface and use the DI with Native in your daw. 

I've never had any issues running a lot of instances of native live in cubase, but if on a rare occasion I did bog down, I'd just freeze the tracks I was done with and continue on with the next track.

I have gotten spikes here and there with the new cab update, but nothing major.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 5, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Pillars OD has no right to sound as nasty as it does. Turns anything in front of it into a ridonkulously tight firebreather.


Dude right?! And the great part is that it seems to use like zilch DSP. I was able to add it in a lot of patches I couldn't fit overdrives into previously. The Pillars is amazing.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 5, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> *excited dolphin noises*
> I just read about this update just about an hour ago on Guitar.com so I ran over to my computer to fire up Native. Super simple to install and the new cabs are awesome. I've been clinging to my usual IRs but these are actually so good that they may replace my IRs. Holy fuckballs.
> I played with the invective and it's surprisingly good. I didn't think I'd care much but I can get some really interesting 80's style stuff out of it. I haven't gotten into the other amps and pedals yet but I'm looking forward to it. Man...Line 6 is the G.O.A.T.
> The only thing I'd like to see them do now, is a Helix hardware version with a powersection. It's not likely to be a huge hit but I'd like the option of having one..even if they just made a limited supply you could only order through the website or something so they don't pump out a bunch and no one buys them.


I've been begging for a powered helix with half the stomps and less a wah pedal, amen börther.


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## STRHelvete (Nov 5, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I've been begging for a powered helix with half the stomps and less a wah pedal, amen börther.


A Helix custom shop where you can order the hardware configuration that works best for you


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## op1e (Nov 5, 2022)

It would be cool in the future if they could get the effects loops to not cost a block. Running anything external still costs you a block if you wanna route it in that way, so might as well use something built in. Speaking of which, what are you HX Stomp users using to split the loop send. I'd like something more low profile like those flat patch cables that doesn't stick out the side 3 inches like this Hosa thing I have.


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## CTID (Nov 5, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Next question, does the helix rack come with native or is it, at all times, separate?


it's separate but you do get a hefty discount on native if you own a helix floor/rack, a slightly smaller discount with the LT and i _think _you get an even smaller discount with the Stomps, but i'm not 100% sure

i still need to do the FW and check out the new cabs and Invective model. not sure that anything will replace my "Friedy Leady" patch but my rhythm channel is a pretty basic 5150 patch and i switch out the amp every few months when i'm feeling something different anyway. also have been feeling less and less satisfied by my Ownhammer OS Mesa IRs so i'm excited to try out the new cab sims


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## thrashcomics (Nov 5, 2022)

Honestly at this point I see my Helix Rack as a permanent part of my rig/studio. Its so damned good.


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## AwakenTheSkies (Nov 5, 2022)

CTID said:


> it's separate but you do get a hefty discount on native if you own a helix floor/rack, a slightly smaller discount with the LT and i _think _you get an even smaller discount with the Stomps, but i'm not 100% sure


I have a Helix LT, a few years later I got Native for 80€ during a sale. Makes reamping a lot faster.


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## Digital Igloo (Nov 5, 2022)

STRHelvete said:


> My computer is a bit beefy so it can handle it but I'm honestly not sure how your computer would handle multiple instances of Helix.


In the process of replacing a 2010 Mac Pro with 32GB of RAM. Was able to load dozens of Helix Native instances along with tons of other plugs and softsynths.


CTID said:


> it's separate but you do get a hefty discount on native if you own a helix floor/rack, a slightly smaller discount with the LT and i _think _you get an even smaller discount with the Stomps, but i'm not 100% sure


A few years ago we said “Screw it; every Helix and HX customer gets Native for 75% off.” So, $99.


----------



## sleewell (Nov 5, 2022)

Update completed. Leaving to jam in 2 hours. Can't wait to try out all the new stuff.


----------



## lurè (Nov 5, 2022)

Pillars on mode 1 is so good has replaced the horizon drive on my high gain presets, even if it needs an extra gate block.
I really like the new cabs features but Im still sticking to IRs for the moment.


----------



## thrashcomics (Nov 5, 2022)

IMO if you play guitar/bass/synth and you do not at least own an HX Stomp what are you doing? The delays, verbs, and looper alone are worth the price not to mention the multichannel USB/MIDI interface.


----------



## Roberto Djentz (Nov 5, 2022)

thrashcomics said:


> IMO if you play guitar/bass/synth and you do not at least own an HX Stomp what are you doing? The delays, verbs, and looper alone are worth the price not to mention the multichannel USB/MIDI interface.


I personally have only used plugins like Neural DSP, so I feel like I'm missing out


----------



## CTID (Nov 5, 2022)

Digital Igloo said:


> A few years ago we said “Screw it; every Helix and HX customer gets Native for 75% off.” So, $99.


even better. y'all have been killing it with Helix


----------



## thrashcomics (Nov 5, 2022)

Digital Igloo said:


> In the process of replacing a 2010 Mac Pro with 32GB of RAM. Was able to load dozens of Helix Native instances along with tons of other plugs and softsynths.
> 
> A few years ago we said “Screw it; every Helix and HX customer gets Native for 75% off.” So, $99.


In what update will we get the Yahamaha T100?


----------



## MatrixClaw (Nov 5, 2022)

Found an insane deal on a used full sized Helix. Seems too good to be true, but I'm debating taking a chance and just relying on buyer protection if I don't get anything


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 5, 2022)

MatrixClaw said:


> Found an insane deal on a used full sized Helix. Seems too good to be true, but I'm debating taking a chance and just relying on buyer protection if I don't get anything


There's been some (i'm assuming) scam accounts posting a bunch of gear/modelers for super cheap on Reverb. I wonder if that's the case.


----------



## penguin_316 (Nov 5, 2022)

I enjoyed the Helix while I had it, but I had a lot of software issues with mine and random crashes while using it. Even if it didn’t happen all the time, once a week or so is way too frequently…

I had a helix rack fwiw 2018 timeframe. Maybe it’s fixed now but yikes, that sucked.


----------



## laxu (Nov 6, 2022)

penguin_316 said:


> I enjoyed the Helix while I had it, but I had a lot of software issues with mine and random crashes while using it. Even if it didn’t happen all the time, once a week or so is way too frequently…
> 
> I had a helix rack fwiw 2018 timeframe. Maybe it’s fixed now but yikes, that sucked.


Meanwhile I had the Helix Floor around the same timeframe and over a few years had basically one crash and that's it. It was a solid piece of gear for me.

Still use Helix Native occasionally, should give this new update a try but I'm in the process of upgrading my computer so will probably install it on the new one.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 6, 2022)

So I was able to phase out the IR loader pedal on my board. The on-board IR loader barely eats any DSP now, even when using 2 IRs. 
Also yeah I've been using Helix gear since 2017/2018 and I've never, ever, ever had a single crash.


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## gunshow86de (Nov 6, 2022)

The mad men finally did it, with the cab update the Cali Rectifire is actually useable!!!


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## MASS DEFECT (Nov 6, 2022)

Digital Igloo said:


> In the process of replacing a 2010 Mac Pro with 32GB of RAM. Was able to load dozens of Helix Native instances along with tons of other plugs and softsynths.
> 
> A few years ago we said “Screw it; every Helix and HX customer gets Native for 75% off.” So, $99.



Will these amazing cabs and amps/pedals come to the PodGo?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 6, 2022)

gunshow86de said:


> The mad men finally did it, with the cab update the Cali Rectifire is actually useable!!!


Put the Pillars in front and weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew lad.



MASS DEFECT said:


> Will these amazing cabs and amps/pedals come to the PodGo?


With the new cabs and IR loader actually using LESS DSP than the original cabs + the Plumes being pretty light on DSP as well, I can probably see it. Not sure about the new amps though.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 6, 2022)

I think 2 is my favorite/favourite mode on the pillars. It looks like that's the no clipping mode/wide open mode.


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## penguin_316 (Nov 6, 2022)

laxu said:


> Meanwhile I had the Helix Floor around the same timeframe and over a few years had basically one crash and that's it. It was a solid piece of gear for me.
> 
> Still use Helix Native occasionally, should give this new update a try but I'm in the process of upgrading my computer so will probably install it on the new one.



It was just my experience. Also resetting it to factory presets it also failed several times. I’ve owned other Line 6 pods and such and never had issues. Figured it was just an early platform issue for helix. Don’t shoot the messenger, things are clearly better now.


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## thrashcomics (Nov 7, 2022)

After playing around with the new cabs the only issue I have found is that I have spend $80 on IRs in the past two weeks,


----------



## STRHelvete (Nov 7, 2022)

After having the update for a while and testing it in recordings, full mixes, etc I have to say I love the new cabs setup. It's officially beat out my tried and true IR mix I've been using for a long time. I've never been this happy with my sound. I also through that new 4 voice chorus in there for that Marshally high gain drenched in chorus sound and I've never been happier.
I wish I was doing live gigs again because I would LOVE to hear this loud and in a venue


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## StrmRidr (Nov 7, 2022)

As I said I only got my Helix LT last week, so I had about 1 day of experience with the old cabs, but I am getting insane tones with the new cabs. I am loving the Invective model as well!


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 7, 2022)

I was contemplating between an Axe-FX unit and a Helix unit (Rack or something) but after reading this thread I'm leaning more toward the Helix. I'll probably still grab a few Neural plugins during Black Friday/Cyber Monday, but the Helix is sounding like solid choice. 

Anyone have any demo recordings up since the the update?


----------



## Roberto Djentz (Nov 7, 2022)

Also, can anyone explain (in detail) the difference between the Helix rack and the Helix LT? Same exact features? Same amps? Cabs? Effects? Does one have more than the other?

Exaggerated example: Does the Helix rack have 100+ amps where as the Helix LT has half the amount?

I'm late to the Helix stuff and this thread has me scrambling to do research on it.


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## sleewell (Nov 7, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Also, can anyone explain (in detail) the difference between the Helix rack and the Helix LT? Same exact features? Same amps? Cabs? Effects? Does one have more than the other?
> 
> Exaggerated example: Does the Helix rack have 100+ amps where as the Helix LT has half the amount?
> 
> I'm late to the Helix stuff and this thread has me scrambling to do research on it.




no, they are same except one is a rack unit and the other is a floor based unit. sound wise and storage wise and feature wise they are the same.


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 7, 2022)

sleewell said:


> no, they are same except one is a rack unit and the other is a floor based unit. sound wise and storage wise and feature wise they are the same.


Can the LT power a 4x12 cab? Or just the rack?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 7, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Also, can anyone explain (in detail) the difference between the Helix rack and the Helix LT? Same exact features? Same amps? Cabs? Effects? Does one have more than the other?
> 
> Exaggerated example: Does the Helix rack have 100+ amps where as the Helix LT has half the amount?
> 
> I'm late to the Helix stuff and this thread has me scrambling to do research on it.


The Helix LT and Rack have the same exact brain. The LT has less I/O and no scribble strips. The Rack has like 4 FX loops and the foot switch has scribble strips.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 7, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Can the LT power a 4x12 cab? Or just the rack?


None of the Helix units have a power amp to run a cab


----------



## vertibration (Nov 7, 2022)

I used to have an AFX pedal a while back, I would say the Helix is absolutely at this point in time on par. The new cabs are really useful, but the new reverbs are the hidden gem. You can do a lot now with space to make the cabs sound like they are mic'd in a room. 

I still think STL Tones Tonehub slams as something if you want a quick and awesome sound right away, but if you spend a little time with the new Helix update, it is absolutely killer. Its a totally new plugin for me now. They are only going to keep getting better as well. I would have to put Helix as the #1 choice for amp sims at the moment. Nothing really beats the value, and quality at this time. Neural DSP is very good, but their cab section doesnt even hold a torch to Helix. Not even close, and that really does matter. I dont even use IR's with Helix anymore, as the new cab section sounds better

My only advice to Line 6 would be to add a speaker section to the cabs and offer a list of speakers to choose. That would be icing on the cake though


----------



## Roberto Djentz (Nov 7, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The Helix LT and Rack have the same exact brain. The LT has less I/O and no scribble strips. The Rack has like 4 FX loops and the foot switch has scribble strips.


Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but what are scribble strips?


----------



## CanserDYI (Nov 7, 2022)

Got my helix in 2018 or so and still running fine zero crashes, ever. It has fired up and turned off with no stutters since.


Roberto Djentz said:


> Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but what are scribble strips?


They're little text screens above each footswitch that are customizable and can tell you what you have programmed there. Personally, just go with LT, i've had both and sold the Floor for the LT and was very happy I did so, a bit smaller (not much though) and just enough I/O to still make sense. I got mine for like 800 bucks brand new in a box, best money I've ever spent in my life seeing as the floor model cost me i think $1300 used when I bought it?


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## sleewell (Nov 7, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but what are scribble strips?




little digital screens above a footswitch that you can label so you know what the switch does


----------



## budda (Nov 7, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> I was contemplating between an Axe-FX unit and a Helix unit (Rack or something) but after reading this thread I'm leaning more toward the Helix. I'll probably still grab a few Neural plugins during Black Friday/Cyber Monday, but the Helix is sounding like solid choice.
> 
> Anyone have any demo recordings up since the the update?


They are both solid choices. Fractal just revamped their amp modelling again and I would suspect we may see the new update this week, maybe next. Line6 updates less frequently with more things rolled out. The axefx gets smaller updates much more frequently. 

I would say buy a used helix and used axe3 mk1, sell the one you prefer less.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 7, 2022)

sleewell said:


> little digital screens above a footswitch that you can label so you know what the switch does


Yep. With the LT/Stomp you don't get that but the foot switches can be LED color coded


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## CanserDYI (Nov 7, 2022)

LT still gives you XLR outs AND 1/4" outs, 2 FX loops, MIDI, multiple expression pedal options, color coded buttons, same exact screen/button configuration, its physically a bit smaller and lighter, its still very solidly built and rugged, frankly unless you are like a "professional" musician touring as their number 1 gig, I can't see many reasons to buy the Helix Floor over the LT.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Nov 7, 2022)

I was having a lot of fun this weekend grabbing any amp, and just about any dual cab. Sticking one 57 about 2" back and position 2.7-3, second one same settings except 45 degrees and bam, there's a guitar sound that everyone knows.


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## budda (Nov 7, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> I was having a lot of fun this weekend grabbing any amp, and just about any dual cab. Sticking one 57 about 2" back and position 2.7-3, second one same settings except 45 degrees and bam, there's a guitar sound that everyone knows.


Will have to try the dual 57.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 7, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> I was having a lot of fun this weekend grabbing any amp, and just about any dual cab. Sticking one 57 about 2" back and position 2.7-3, second one same settings except 45 degrees and bam, there's a guitar sound that everyone knows.


Fredman technique works super well in Helix, very accurate to my untrained ear, at least. Instant metalcore/hardcore with the right preamp.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 7, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> LT still gives you XLR outs AND 1/4" outs, 2 FX loops, MIDI, multiple expression pedal options, color coded buttons, same exact screen/button configuration, its physically a bit smaller and lighter, its still very solidly built and rugged, frankly unless you are like a "professional" musician touring as their number 1 gig, I can't see many reasons to buy the Helix Floor over the LT.


Did they ever fix the expression pedal? That was a huge issue on the LTs. It felt super junky and even broke on a lot of people. Hell the exp pedal broke on a LT i sold to someone


----------



## CanserDYI (Nov 7, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Did they ever fix the expression pedal? That was a huge issue on the LTs. It felt super junky and even broke on a lot of people. Hell the exp pedal broke on a LT i sold to someone


Mine is definitely squeaky and not as nice as the one on the Floor unit I had (Floor Model's feel solid IMHO) but I've said it a thousand times, if they offered an LT slim where it came with like 4 switches and no exp pedal, but with LT DSP, I'd jump on that in a second.


----------



## sleewell (Nov 7, 2022)

3.5 confirms for me what many of us realized with real amps. the cab matters maybe a lot more than almost anything else. the same exact amp can sound amazing or shitty depending on cab, speaker, and mic. i see on forums a lot where people will swap out amp after amp when really they probably should have been focusing on their cab. 

there really is a lot of awesome stuff to digest with this update especially if you plan to use dual cabs. different speaker combos, different mic combos, mic position and location. pretty amazing!!


----------



## drb (Nov 7, 2022)

Frantically trying to get my 50W Stealth to sound as good as the literal default settings of the Vitriol Lead, it gets the high gain sound I want with almost no fettling. That midrange is in the perfect spot. 

The new cab section, too. Fredman technique mics on the Cali 4x12 just sounds like home, it perfectly nails it.

The HX Stomp is a complete no brainer for anyone wanting to get into modelling at this point, the value for money is ridiculous.


----------



## CanserDYI (Nov 7, 2022)

drb said:


> The HX Stomp is a complete no brainer for anyone.


----------



## Lemonbaby (Nov 7, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Also, can anyone explain (in detail) the difference between the Helix rack and the Helix LT? Same exact features? Same amps? Cabs? Effects? Does one have more than the other?
> 
> Exaggerated example: Does the Helix rack have 100+ amps where as the Helix LT has half the amount?
> 
> I'm late to the Helix stuff and this thread has me scrambling to do research on it.





https://line6.com/documents/processor_comparison_chart/Line_6_Processor_Comparison_Chart.pdf


----------



## gabito (Nov 7, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Fredman technique works super well in Helix, very accurate to my untrained ear, at least. Instant metalcore/hardcore with the right preamp.



Yeah, I've been testing this and it sounds REALLY well. I should try it in a recording or live sound, but (at least for now) to my ears a dual XXL cab configuration sounds better than the OwnHammer IRs I've been using since forever. Maybe I'm deluded by the novelty, but I'm 100% sure about the default cabs sounding better than before. At the very least now we have more (very good) options, for free!



CanserDYI said:


> Mine is definitely squeaky and not as nice as the one on the Floor unit I had (Floor Model's feel solid IMHO) but I've said it a thousand times, if they offered an LT slim where it came with like 4 switches and no exp pedal, but with LT DSP, I'd jump on that in a second.



I used to have the squeaky pedal on mine, I fixed it by adjusting (or maybe loosening?) a little bolt on the side with an allen wrench. I think there's a more complicated method where you have to grease the main bolt, but it was not necessary.


----------



## budda (Nov 7, 2022)

I didnt know helix cab block was 1 IR per. Oh


----------



## CanserDYI (Nov 7, 2022)

budda said:


> I didnt know helix cab block was 1 IR per. Oh


Yeah it was quite annoying on my friends stomp. Less annoying on my LT, but yeah. I'm loving this update, even though funny enough, probably won't be using 3rd party IR's anymore....


----------



## GunpointMetal (Nov 7, 2022)

budda said:


> I didnt know helix cab block was 1 IR per. Oh


The Legacy cab block was like an IR with some sort of extra processing to get the Mic and Early Reflections, I don't even think it that changing the mic changed the IR. You could massage them into usability but it was definitely more effort than it was worth when you could just load an IR. The new cabs get me a great sound in about the amount of time it would take me to scroll through my IR library looking for the cab/mic I want.


----------



## lurè (Nov 7, 2022)

Since I'm lazy and have almost 0 knowledge on mics in general, anyone has some nice mic combo to share?

So far I'm liking the the double Cali XXL with 7 dynamic and 160 both at cap edge, works well with the Archetype Lead.


----------



## GunpointMetal (Nov 7, 2022)

lurè said:


> Since I'm lazy and have almost 0 knowledge on mics in general, anyone has some nice mic combo to share?
> 
> So far I'm liking the the double Cali XXL with 7 dynamic and 160 both at cap edge, works well with the Archetype Lead.


Dynamic mic on cap edge 1"-2" away with a ribbon or condenser 12" back centered or cap-edge is kind of a standard starting point for someone mic'ing a cab. The mic choice would depend on the cab and desired outcome. I mentioned above that putting two 57's on with the same position and switching one to 45 degrees is sort of the "metal/core/rock" standard (Fredman technique) on most cabs.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 7, 2022)

budda said:


> I didnt know helix cab block was 1 IR per. Oh


Yeah it was the whole reason I bought an external IR loader, on top of saving DSP. Now the cabs use like 60 - 80% less DSP and allow for dual/stereo setups, so... redundant now.


----------



## Tree (Nov 7, 2022)

Man, y’all are killing me. I still don’t have the energy to play, and even if I did, my sinuses are so backed up I can hardly hear anything. 
I’m so ready to dive in to this update.


----------



## thrashcomics (Nov 7, 2022)

I am loving this update so much. The Plumes -> Invective -> Fredman miced Mesa 412 is such instant joy. 


Really glad I was able to pickup up the Rack/Controller combo in boxes for $1200 a few weeks ago.


----------



## James Freeman (Nov 7, 2022)

A few riffs from the albums Clayman and Colony by In Flames, I got very close to the album tone.



Helix Preset:

```
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GWLu1M5OoJe07gMZiV6COGILo3ji3pMb/view?usp=sharing
```


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 7, 2022)

James Freeman said:


> A few riffs from the albums Clayman and Colony by In Flames, I got very close to the album tone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is actually shockingly close. 
If it helps they also added a HM-2 track on each side as well to add growl. And guess what the Helix has?


----------



## CanserDYI (Nov 7, 2022)

James Freeman said:


> A few riffs from the albums Clayman and Colony by In Flames, I got very close to the album tone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow dude, yeah, that's spot on, if not a little better than the album haha

Cheers for the preset, I'll be trying it after work!


----------



## budda (Nov 7, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah it was the whole reason I bought an external IR loader, on top of saving DSP. Now the cabs use like 60 - 80% less DSP and allow for dual/stereo setups, so... redundant now.


Aaah. Axe3 has 4 ir slots per block and two blocks. I usually use 2 ir’s and one block.


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Nov 7, 2022)

hey you Helix Native dudes. Any of you getting cpu fairly consistent spikes with the new cabs when flipping between mics or settings?

this is what i'm on:

macbook pro 2019 
OS: Monterey
Cubase 12.5


----------



## Roberto Djentz (Nov 7, 2022)

James Freeman said:


> A few riffs from the albums Clayman and Colony by In Flames, I got very close to the album tone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome man, dig that tone


----------



## lurè (Nov 8, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Dynamic mic on cap edge 1"-2" away with a ribbon or condenser 12" back centered or cap-edge is kind of a standard starting point for someone mic'ing a cab


Just by starting from a ribbon 160 I ended up with the combo you mentioned. I think it's a pretty standard one since the ribbon has more low end and the dynamic is more mid focused and they complement each others.

I know it's very amp/cab specific but I've found the 57 to be a little too harsh even at extreme distances and with high cut engaged. 

My only regret on this update is not having implemented a dB meter to make preset leveling easier.


----------



## Lemonbaby (Nov 8, 2022)

I'm somewhat annoyed Line6 threw out the looper block in almost all presets since several update cycles. What genius came up with this?


----------



## GunpointMetal (Nov 8, 2022)

Lemonbaby said:


> I'm somewhat annoyed Line6 threw out the looper block in almost all presets since several update cycles. What genius came up with this?


I don't think anyone at Line 6 is expecting people to do much with the built-in presets besides copy sounds they like to new presets.


----------



## CanserDYI (Nov 8, 2022)

Lemonbaby said:


> I'm somewhat annoyed Line6 threw out the looper block in almost all presets since several update cycles. What genius came up with this?


Wait wait what? I'm confused what you mean by this?

EDIT: From @GunpointMetal's response it looks like you mean they removed the looper from the BUILT IN presets? That's no big deal to me, but if they went in and changed my personal presets, I'm gonna be kind of annoyed. Not near my helix to check, anyone?


----------



## Lemonbaby (Nov 8, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Wait wait what? I'm confused what you mean by this?



Several years ago (as far as I remember) every preset had a looper as last block in the chain. Now I have to run the editor and rearrange blocks with every new update.


----------



## CanserDYI (Nov 8, 2022)

Lemonbaby said:


> Several years ago (as far as I remember) every preset had a looper as last block in the chain. Now I have to run the editor and rearrange blocks with every new update.


I don't mean to be repetitive, but I just want to confirm you mean the BUILT IN presets that come along with the Helix when you update correct? You don't mean ones that you personally have built from scratch and saved in USER, right?


----------



## GunpointMetal (Nov 8, 2022)

lurè said:


> Just by starting from a ribbon 160 I ended up with the combo you mentioned. I think it's a pretty standard one since the ribbon has more low end and the dynamic is more mid focused and they complement each others.
> 
> I know it's very amp/cab specific but I've found the 57 to be a little too harsh even at extreme distances and with high cut engaged.
> 
> My only regret on this update is not having implemented a dB meter to make preset leveling easier.


If you use two 57s with one 45 degrees off axis they kind of lower the “scratchiness” of one on its own. I can usually just move that setup further from the center if it’s too bright. The problem with a built-in dB meter is that volume =\= loudness especially between clean/distortion and also all the varying amplification people will use. I have a free dB meter app on my phone that I use at rehearsal to level patches at drums volume. I have no idea how accurate the readings a are, but if I get all my patches to show the same level in the room it’s a lot closer than if I try to use the track meter in my daw. Loudness is a combination of volume, EQ, and space.


----------



## Digital Igloo (Nov 8, 2022)

Lemonbaby said:


> I'm somewhat annoyed Line6 threw out the looper block in almost all presets since several update cycles. What genius came up with this?


Honestly, it makes things easier to port new factory presets to/from Helix Native, as that doesn't have a Looper block. There's no ulterior motive here.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Nov 8, 2022)

Y’all are making me want a helix and I’m broke as fuck.


----------



## lurè (Nov 8, 2022)

I'm ho)))nestly spending too))) much time with the Moo)))n T with the Vital Dist in fro)))nt, sto)))ck cabs with sto)))ck mic.


----------



## StrmRidr (Nov 9, 2022)

Just got my Mark V back yesterday from being fixed and wired the Helix LT with the 4 cable method. It's awesome, most if not all of my other pedals will be going up for sale.


----------



## Tree (Nov 9, 2022)

My hearing still isn’t 100%, but I couldn’t wait any longer. 

The Plumes drive is so obnoxiously good. It does everything. I’ve even used it as a clean boost for my clean tones, and guess what? It’s clean as hell! 

The Invective model is also insanely dope. I haven’t tweaked it quite enough to replace my current Revv Red patch, but it may just be a case of me needing to use them in tandem in a mix. It’s so good. It kind of makes me think they used some different techniques when it comes to the modeling they do. Something about it just feels more organic than a lot of the older stuff. If that’s true, I’d hope someday for an update wherein they kind of “redo” some of the older amps. 

The new cab sim is nuts, too! It’s easily on par with all of the York Audio IRs I have. They even have the same texture and feel. I need to sit down with this again when my sinuses are cleared, but so far they can’t dethrone my go to IR, but that one is also a franken-cab with a bunch of different mic combos mixed, so naturally it’s a bit hard to imitate. 

Thank you Line 6 overlords. You have truly blessed us on this hallowed day. May 11-03-22 be forever remembered as the day tone was truly unleashed.


----------



## thebeesknees22 (Nov 9, 2022)

I noticed that I have to flip the phase of the Vitriol if I'm combining it with another amp. I wonder if that's due to the extra gainstage or whatever? I'm not familiar enough with amp design and phase to know all the details of why that is. 

it seems to be flipped in comparison to most amps that I tried.


----------



## MatrixClaw (Nov 9, 2022)

Got a new amp recently on a whim and it's honestly totally killed my amp GAS. Was planning to invest in a Synergy system, but the guy locally with one just seems super unmotivated to meet up. However, I've never really even thought about buying a Helix and now really want one  Someday this week, I'll have to find some time to play with the Helix Native trial and see if I should buy a hardware unit, maybe there will be some decent deals around Black Friday??


----------



## Mprinsje (Nov 10, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That is actually shockingly close.
> If it helps they also added a HM-2 track on each side as well to add growl. And guess what the Helix has?


I will say, I've never heard a modelled hm2 sound close to a real one, helix included. It's my least favourite pedal in the helix while my real one is one of my favourite things.


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## Veldar (Nov 10, 2022)

Mprinsje said:


> I will say, I've never heard a modelled hm2 sound close to a real one, helix included. It's my least favourite pedal in the helix while my real one is one of my favourite things.



I really like the audiority Hm-2 but it's still not the same as my old Jap HM-2. I agree the Helix one doesn't sound right, could be an in the room thing but it just doesn't grind the same way.

Since they are open to modeling EQD stuff I wanna see a westwood next, would be great to have a bass friendly transparent OD.


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## sleewell (Nov 10, 2022)

sunn is my new clean and the invective is my new dirty sound. The sunn is such a big powerful sound and really grits up nicely when you dig in. The invective beat out my previous favorite revv red pretty handily, sounds and feels more amp like. I think that of all the amps they could have added these 2 were just about perfect for me at least. 


Still undecided on plumes or horizon drive for a boost. Both are great. More testing needed but a good problem to have lol.

Awesome, awesome update.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 10, 2022)

Jesus H Christ, the Fender twin model with gain at like 6 and the Vital boost at about 7, oh my god that is such a good clean tone. If you dig in it's really SRV sounding, but nice and soft touch and it's twinkly Midwest emo goodness.


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## ATRguitar91 (Nov 10, 2022)

Mprinsje said:


> I will say, I've never heard a modelled hm2 sound close to a real one, helix included. It's my least favourite pedal in the helix while my real one is one of my favourite things.


As an HM2 fan myself I find the Helix model pretty close. It's not perfect, but it's a more than adequate stand in. I keep my Throne Torcher and HM2 in front of the Helix, but I really like to do a 50/50 blend of chainsaw and overdrive that is much easier utilizing the Helix model.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 10, 2022)

ATRguitar91 said:


> As an HM2 fan myself I find the Helix model pretty close. It's not perfect, but it's a more than adequate stand in. I keep my Throne Torcher and HM2 in front of the Helix, but I really like to do a 50/50 blend of chainsaw and overdrive that is much easier utilizing the Helix model.


Yeah I agree I actually think the Swedish Chainsaw is pretty good. I like to blend it in with tighter overdrive, just set them in parallel paths and turn down the path with the HM2, and man, you can get some really grindy sounds without losing the tight low end a regular OD will do.


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## ATRguitar91 (Nov 10, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Yeah I agree I actually think the Swedish Chainsaw is pretty good. I like to blend it in with tighter overdrive, just set them in parallel paths and turn down the path with the HM2, and man, you can get some really grindy sounds without losing the tight low end a regular OD will do.


Yep, it's a killer sound, try adding a fuzz on that second path too. Gets things real thick quick.


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 12, 2022)

Downloaded Helix Native and threw together a quick clip in GarageBand with its built in drummer. I'm seriously impressed:









Metulz_gate.mp3


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





Left: Plumes > Invective > dual Cali 4x12 (Fredman position with two 57s)
Right: Exact same setup, just with the Revv Red
Bass: Agua 51 amp/cab preset

Only EQ is a LPF on the guitars at 80Hz and the GarageBand bass preset on the bass.

Think this might be the best tone I've ever gotten out of a modeler and this quickly.


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 13, 2022)

MatrixClaw said:


> Downloaded Helix Native and threw together a quick clip in GarageBand with its built in drummer. I'm seriously impressed:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Glad to see people posting demo tracks after the update 

I'd like to hear more, I'm a stick for Neural DSP stuff, but the Helix has my attention right now.

Side note: 
Why is it so hard to get line 6 on the phone? Geez. Monday-Friday 8am-12pm


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 13, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Glad to see people posting demo tracks after the update
> 
> I'd like to hear more, I'm a stick for Neural DSP stuff, but the Helix has my attention right now.
> 
> ...


Download the trial and run your NDSP tracks through it! It's good for 14 days.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 13, 2022)

I also put together a little jam with the Vitriol amp, plumes OD and fredman techniqued cab section let me know how you like my tone. Literally zero post processing, so its rough.


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## lurè (Nov 13, 2022)

Found this tutorial on my YT home and i's simple but really cool:


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## drb (Nov 13, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I also put together a little jam with the Vitriol amp, plumes OD and fredman techniqued cab section let me know how you like my tone. Literally zero post processing, so its rough.



Huge fan of the tone, bigger fan of the music.


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## EmaDaCuz (Nov 14, 2022)

Finally managed to have all the band members updating to 3.50. Everything sounds killer. Even the guitarist who uses his Helix out of convenience, but who hates how it used to sound, said that he is finally enjoying the sound and feel. And funnily enough, he loves the Vitriol, but he is a big hater of 5150-style amps in general. Also big shout to the dynamic reverb, which really helps giving that amp-in-the-room feeling when playing through PA/powered speakers.

I updated my bass patches and the new cabs are definitely an improvement. Less honkiness, more defined and controlled low end, less compression needed. If Line 6 could add a Darkglass Vintage Microtubes pedal, I could finally gig with only my HX-Stomp.

Recording/studio wise, I think I would just stick with third party IRs mainly because I am too lazy and too busy to tweak my FX chains that I have created in the past 4-5 years. But if I started now, I'd would be more than happy to use the new cabs; the XXL V30 in Fredman configuration is killer.


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## CTID (Nov 14, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I also put together a little jam with the Vitriol amp, plumes OD and fredman techniqued cab section let me know how you like my tone. Literally zero post processing, so its rough.



this is fucking sick, great tone and the song itself gives me Napoleon vibes mixed with some more noodly pop-punk sounds. my old band played in an open tuning (D# G A# F A# D) in a melodic hardcore style and the really nice hammer-on pull-off runs you can do are so easy to just slip in everywhere


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## Tree (Nov 14, 2022)

I’m about to open a support ticket, but thought I’d post here as well; 

Is anyone having connectivity issues on Windows since the last update? It’s strange, my computer recognizes that it’s plugged in, HX Edit sees it and still functions properly, but Windows refuses to see it as an audio device. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers to no avail. It’s not the end of the world, but I like doing this for quiet, nighttime playback since I live in an apartment.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 14, 2022)

CTID said:


> this is fucking sick, great tone and the song itself gives me Napoleon vibes mixed with some more noodly pop-punk sounds. my old band played in an open tuning (D# G A# F A# D) in a melodic hardcore style and the really nice hammer-on pull-off runs you can do are so easy to just slip in everywhe


Yeah man thanks! I tune DAEAC#E, ala Tiny Moving Parts, Algernon Cadwallader, American Football Etc but play a litttttle more "on fire" sounding lol


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## lurè (Nov 14, 2022)

Had some fun with the Archetype Lead and XXL with Fredman double 57, here's the preset:


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## budda (Nov 14, 2022)

@CanserDYI sounds good dude. I take it you also like A Wilhelm Scream? Reminds me of my last band before the touring project a bit hehe.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 14, 2022)

budda said:


> @CanserDYI sounds good dude. I take it you also like A Wilhelm Scream? Reminds me of my last band before the touring project a bit hehe.


Thanks man! And yeah, definitely AWS fan, here. 



And separate note, just realized that the new cab section includes bass cabs as well, so looks like I get to go bass diving now....anyone mess around with some good bass mic'ing techniques? I'm no good here. I like the bass tone in the above video, but that's an oooooooold patch, probably can get it sounding even better.


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 14, 2022)

Tree said:


> I’m about to open a support ticket, but thought I’d post here as well;
> 
> Is anyone having connectivity issues on Windows since the last update? It’s strange, my computer recognizes that it’s plugged in, HX Edit sees it and still functions properly, but Windows refuses to see it as an audio device. I tried uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers to no avail. It’s not the end of the world, but I like doing this for quiet, nighttime playback since I live in an apartment.


Try to download the 1.96 driver from Line 6 and see if that works. Mine was showing up in Windows, but I couldn't get the ASIO driver to show in the DAW. Rolled back, then it worked, then re-installed the 1.97 driver and everything went back to normal.


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## Tree (Nov 14, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Try to download the 1.96 driver from Line 6 and see if that works. Mine was showing up in Windows, but I couldn't get the ASIO driver to show in the DAW. Rolled back, then it worked, then re-installed the 1.97 driver and everything went back to normal.


Will do, good looking out! 
I’m not home at the moment, but I assume this is just done within the L6 update software?


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 14, 2022)

Tree said:


> Will do, good looking out!
> I’m not home at the moment, but I assume this is just done within the L6 update software?


I'd go get the driver right from the Line 6 downloads. The updater usually tries to install the most recent version of everything.


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 14, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> And separate note, just realized that the new cab section includes bass cabs as well, so looks like I get to go bass diving now....anyone mess around with some good bass mic'ing techniques? I'm no good here. I like the bass tone in the above video, but that's an oooooooold patch, probably can get it sounding even better.


I think this is actually the first time I've ever really been satisfied with a bass amp track. Never mic'd one in the studio. I always just DI it, duplicate the track and throw a comp and EQ, chopping off the high end on one and then throw a gnarly distortion on the other with high LPF on it and I'm done. The amp/cab combos in Helix sounded great, though.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 14, 2022)

MatrixClaw said:


> I think this is actually the first time I've ever really been satisfied with a bass amp track. Never mic'd one in the studio. I always just DI it, duplicate the track and throw a comp and EQ, chopping off the high end on one and then throw a gnarly distortion on the other with high LPF on it and I'm done. The amp/cab combos in Helix sounded great, though.


 Yeah, thats basically what my patch is just done on the helix instead of my daw haha, one path for clean compressed low end and the other path for some crunchy highs.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 14, 2022)

MatrixClaw said:


> I think this is actually the first time I've ever really been satisfied with a bass amp track. Never mic'd one in the studio. I always just DI it, duplicate the track and throw a comp and EQ, chopping off the high end on one and then throw a gnarly distortion on the other with high LPF on it and I'm done. The amp/cab combos in Helix sounded great, though.


same here dude. 
I really struggled getting a bass tone I was happy with before even with a 3rd party IR. I'd end up doing the DI route too, but with this updated I'm finally getting the bass tones i have in my head without that much effort.


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 14, 2022)

thebeesknees22 said:


> same here dude.
> I really struggled getting a bass tone I was happy with before even with a 3rd party IR. I'd end up doing the DI route too, but with this updated I'm finally getting the bass tones i have in my head without that much effort.


+1 to this. Super surprised how good it sounded through the models. I just loaded the amp+cab block, picked the preset I liked best and did nothing else aside from a little post EQ to make sure the low-end wasn't too out of control. Made my $100 Peavey Fury sound awesome


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## vertibration (Nov 14, 2022)

I still think Badonk chunks harder than all the other models


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## CTID (Nov 14, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Yeah man thanks! I tune DAEAC#E, ala Tiny Moving Parts, Algernon Cadwallader, American Football Etc but play a litttttle more "on fire" sounding lol


hell yeah, that open tuning i posted earlier is just FACGCE tuned down a step which is at least what one of the guitars in Never Meant is tuned to. super into the twinkly emo stuff


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## Veldar (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> I still think Badonk chunks harder than all the other models


I really should upload my patch but I use a badonk set to Meshuggah on one side and then an eq inverse of it as my clean side.

Never had such a brutal bass tone that sounds like Mt clean before


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

One thing I would like to add, is even if you dont use Helix as your main tone, it has the absolute best noisegates, and cab sections. If you are using a tube amp direct into your interface (using the dummy cable pin into the effects loop, and running from effects loop into the interface) you can get a really versatile all in one cab and effects section


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## CanserDYI (Nov 15, 2022)

I do still like the badonk, but for some reason the Vitriol just sounds good no matter what you set the settings at, the badonk can sound extremely bad. Dunno if thats a good thing, ala metal zone meaning "all the good tones are in there, but you have to sift through the bad ones to find the good ones. " I actually don't find the EQ in the Vitriol actual amp model to be very "powerful" if that makes any sense. It seems very deliberately voiced.


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

Does anyone have any advice how to get that compressed thick chug sound out of metal amps in Helix? I use STL Tonehub, and those profiles are very thick and chunky. Ive been trying hard to recreate the same kind of thumpy compressed chunky chugs in Helix, and Im having a bit of a hard time


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## CanserDYI (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Does anyone have any advice how to get that compressed thick chug sound out of metal amps in Helix? I use STL Tonehub, and those profiles are very thick and chunky. Ive been trying hard to recreate the same kind of thumpy compressed chunky chugs in Helix, and Im having a bit of a hard time


Are you using IR's? Are you able to try the same IR in tonehub that you can in helix? or are you using the built in cab sections for each?


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Are you using IR's? Are you able to try the same IR in tonehub that you can in helix? or are you using the built in cab sections for each?


Tonehub is basically a kemper, you cant load IR's though. Its a glorified preset player. However, they really nailed the chunky compressed thud of chugs you get from a tube amp

Helix for me at least, has a really hard time with their chugs being thuddy and chunky with a quick release time that a tube amp would do if that makes sense


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## CanserDYI (Nov 15, 2022)

Are you able to post some sound examples so we know what you're describing?


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Tonehub is basically a kemper, you cant load IR's though. Its a glorified preset player. However, they really nailed the chunky compressed thud of chugs you get from a tube amp
> 
> Helix for me at least, has a really hard time with their chugs being thuddy and chunky with a quick release time that a tube amp would do if that makes sense


I actually thought the low-end on 3.5 sounded very realistic. I remember plugging into my FM3 for the first time and thinking, "Wow, they finally nailed the low-end," I didn't think Helix Native did any worse


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## Tree (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Tonehub is basically a kemper, you cant load IR's though. Its a glorified preset player. However, they really nailed the chunky compressed thud of chugs you get from a tube amp
> 
> Helix for me at least, has a really hard time with their chugs being thuddy and chunky with a quick release time that a tube amp would do if that makes sense


I know what you mean. I’ll try and record some clips this weekend to see if I’ve got anything that meets your needs. In the meantime, I’ve felt that the new Invective model does this the best. Just last night I was messing around trying to nail the tone Mark Lewis has in his Tonehub pack for the Havok album and got something pretty on point. IIRC I had the bass around the default settings ~6-7 and then started goosing the Depth control up until it was satisfyingly “thunk”-ing.


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

I will post some examples tonight. I think it is the release of the initial chug. For instance, in Helix, when you make a chug, the attack and release of the chug is a bit loose. This has nothing to do with placing an overdrive, or using a gate. Its all about sounding like a tube chug

Tone hub nails the attack and release of the chug, so it sounds like a high gain tube amp. In tonehub, when you chug, the attack is lightning fast, thick, and the release time is also quick so the chugs sound very prominent and sort of "compressed"


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 15, 2022)

I haven't had any problems getting the "chug" out most of the high gain amps, but if I want something thick and nasty having one cab with the 57 on the cap edge and another with 48(47?) condenser about a foot back and a little further out from center does it easily.


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

Here is my example



Both are using Archon heads, Mesa cabs with 57's off axis

Helix is first, Tonehub is second

Tonehub chugs are pretty tight. Mind you, my new guitar isnt set up yet, and its tuned down to drop E


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## Tree (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Here is my example
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, that’s literally just the difference in low end. You’re going to want to look for IRs that get you closer to that sound and boost the lows after the cab with a shelf. That should get you in the ballpark.


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

Tree said:


> Yeah, that’s literally just the difference in low end. You’re going to want to look for IRs that get you closer to that sound and boost the lows after the cab with a shelf. That should get you in the ballpark.


i dont know man, something is going on in each plugin


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## CanserDYI (Nov 15, 2022)

Not going to lie I think the helix sounded better in that example. I honestly think it's down to the cabs in this example.


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## drb (Nov 15, 2022)

The Vitriol Lead has got me truly hankering for an Invective now, too. I thought modellers helped with GAS is mine broken?


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Here is my example
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Obviously I can't "feel" it, but it sounds like the Tonehub one has more sag and the bass turned up a bit. Not that it helps your situation, but I'd be cutting that extra bottom out when any other instruments are playing anyways. You could try turning the master up a bit and the sag in Helix before boosting the low end a bit.


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

GunpointMetal said:


> Obviously I can't "feel" it, but it sounds like the Tonehub one has more sag and the bass turned up a bit. Not that it helps your situation, but I'd be cutting that extra bottom out when any other instruments are playing anyways. You could try turning the master up a bit and the sag in Helix before boosting the low end a bit.


Tonehub is a profiler, like Kemper, so what is playing are profiles of tube heads. It does feel like playing a tube head, I have heads to compare. What I am trying to do, is to get Helix to have a quicker release time after you chug, instead of the way it is now where the chugs sustain slightly. Helix is a modeler, not a profiler. Therefore, I assume that is the main difference in how it responds to chugs, and its attack and response time vs a profiler like Tonehub or Kemper which profiles tubes and how they react to playing


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Here is my example
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm only listening through my phone right now, so take this with a grain of salt, but... the Helix clip sounds exactly like every tube amp I've ever plugged a 7 or 8 string straight into. Flubby low-end that lacks definition. The STL clip sounds like a boosted and gated amp or a modeler.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> I still think Badonk chunks harder than all the other models


As much as I like the new Invective models, yeah I keep going back to the Badonk, Mark IV, and BE100. The Badonk reminds me of a 5153 but significantly more pissed off.


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Tonehub is a profiler, like Kemper, so what is playing are profiles of tube heads. It does feel like playing a tube head, I have heads to compare. What I am trying to do, is to get Helix to have a quicker release time after you chug, instead of the way it is now where the chugs sustain slightly. Helix is a modeler, not a profiler. Therefore, I assume that is the main difference in how it responds to chugs, and its attack and response time vs a profiler like Tonehub or Kemper which profiles tubes and how they react to playing


And the Helix does component modeling that passes blind tests against the hardware all the time. Whatever cabinet that is baked into the profile has as much to do with the sound as anything. Try moving the Helix mic closer/further from the cab or the center, or even try a different V30 cab. From what I’ve seen of the stuff on Tonehub I doubt the only thing in the chain is an amp, a cab, and a mic unless it’s your homemade profile, and from what I’ve experienced in real life no two tube amp/cab setups are 1:1 even if they’re the same model.


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## ATRguitar91 (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Here is my example
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds like these differences could be easily dialed out with EQ. Cut more lows and less highs on the Helix and you're done.


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

Who here has tonehub to compare for themselves? If not, download a trial. I am curious to know others thoughts who own tonehub, and or could trial it and give an opinion


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> As much as I like the new Invective models, yeah I keep going back to the Badonk, Mark IV, and BE100. The Badonk reminds me of a 5153 but significantly more pissed off.


For real, when you dial in Badonk, it sounds nasty


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## ExMachina (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> I will post some examples tonight. I think it is the release of the initial chug. For instance, in Helix, when you make a chug, the attack and release of the chug is a bit loose. This has nothing to do with placing an overdrive, or using a gate. Its all about sounding like a tube chug
> 
> Tone hub nails the attack and release of the chug, so it sounds like a high gain tube amp. In tonehub, when you chug, the attack is lightning fast, thick, and the release time is also quick so the chugs sound very prominent and sort of "compressed"


You're describing the 3 band comp, throw that in right before the output and set the cutoff on the low band around 250. Also put a parametric EQ in there and start playing with how the sounds changes when you boost and cut certain bands.


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

ExMachina said:


> You're describing the 3 band comp, throw that in right before the output and set the cutoff on the low band around 250. Also put a parametric EQ in there and start playing with how the sounds changes when you boost and cut certain bands.


gunna try that now thanks, i was using la comp before the amp, which actually does help with saturation


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

Great advice with the 3 band comp at the end of the signal chain before effects. I can control the subby low end thump that I was missing. Thank you. I still think Tonehub feels a bit tighter to play, more responsive, but maybe with more time in Helix, I can iron it out


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## Shask (Nov 15, 2022)

vertibration said:


> I still think Badonk chunks harder than all the other models


When I tried Native, the Badonk was really the only amp model I liked. That model sounds great.


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## vertibration (Nov 15, 2022)

I tested another example with the 3 band comp, and it is quite the difference, and very very competitive with Tonehub for tightness, thanks @ExMachina


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## vertibration (Nov 17, 2022)

Oh I should probably also include I am using a P90 in the bridge, not that it matters


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 18, 2022)

So does anyone have a proggy/djenty Rythym preset they are willing to share? And possibly a subtle clean?

I just downloaded the trial, I would like to compare it to my Neural DSP stuff, but I have no clue what I'm doing


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## CanserDYI (Nov 18, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> So does anyone have a proggy/djenty Rythym preset they are willing to share? And possibly a subtle clean?
> 
> I just downloaded the trial, I would like to compare it to my Neural DSP stuff, but I have no clue what I'm doing


Im not by my desk but I can walk you through a good patch start that I can get you ballparking it.

Input Gate on, thresh around -50-60db Decay 10ms.>

Horizon Drive- Gain 0, Attack keep it low like 1 or 2, Extended Range gate at 8-10, level 8-10>

PV Vitriol Lead, Pregain around 3, B/M/T to your taste although I like Peavey's classic 666 take, it works here well, Post gain set in the low/middle like 3 or 4 as this is where power amp distortion is going to come from and tight djent does not like power amp distortion. You can get your volume back in the channel volume section, volume to taste.

**IMPORTANT PART HERE**
Dual Cab Block, set both to Cali V30 or XXL V30 first one mic with a 57 Standard and center with 1" distance and no angle, and the second with same settings above but with 45 degree angle.

Set low pass and high pass to around 90hz and 8k hz for both cabs.>

Reverb block, usually use a dynamic room, and I set the decay low and the mix low to like 15-25%, I usually don't touch much else here, but it gives it a bit more in the room sound.


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## drb (Nov 18, 2022)

For proggy/djenty rhythm:

-Your boost of choice, how you normally would set it
-Maybe a compressor for extra abruptness
-Vitriol lead, adjust to taste but sounds great stock
-Cali or XXL, dual cab. Each with a 57 at 2.5-3 position, 2” away, with one of them at 45 degree angle.

Then noise gates everywhere maybe?


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## lurè (Nov 18, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> So does anyone have a proggy/djenty Rythym preset they are willing to share? And possibly a subtle clean?
> 
> I just downloaded the trial, I would like to compare it to my Neural DSP stuff, but I have no clue what I'm doing





lurè said:


> Had some fun with the Archetype Lead and XXL with Fredman double 57, here's the preset:


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 20, 2022)

So, I opened a thread pertaining to presets and demos using the helix... But not a soul has responded.

Soooo, if more of you would like to share your presets or details, I'd be happy to try them out 

I'm new to the helix, so honestly, I haven't dialed in anything that makes me think it's better than Neural DSP stuff 

I hear that it is, but struggle to agree so far, due to the controls or GUI.


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## budda (Nov 20, 2022)

Try the helix forum?


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 20, 2022)

budda said:


> Try the helix forum?


Like, the line 6 forum? Or does helix have their own?


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## vertibration (Nov 20, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> So, I opened a thread pertaining to presets and demos using the helix... But not a soul has responded.
> 
> Soooo, if more of you would like to share your presets or details, I'd be happy to try them out
> 
> ...


I dont think either is better than each other. Both can sound great. I still think Tonehub sounds best (kemper style profiler), but Im becoming instrigued by Mooer’s inexpensive tone capture features tbh.


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## budda (Nov 20, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Like, the line 6 forum? Or does helix have their own?


 Chances are both exist.


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## ATRguitar91 (Nov 20, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> So, I opened a thread pertaining to presets and demos using the helix... But not a soul has responded.
> 
> Soooo, if more of you would like to share your presets or details, I'd be happy to try them out
> 
> ...


What sound are you going for? I just started with the factory presets and tweaked from there.

If you're after high gain, you can't go wrong with the Horizon Drive/plumes, Vitriol, and dual Cali 412.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Nov 20, 2022)

There is a Line 6 Forum, and there's subforums specifically for the HX series stuff.


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 20, 2022)

ATRguitar91 said:


> What sound are you going for? I just started with the factory presets and tweaked from there.
> 
> If you're after high gain, you can't go wrong with the Horizon Drive/plumes, Vitriol, and dual Cali 412.


Attempting to get a Plini Electric Sunrise or David Maxim Miccic Bilo part 3 rhythm tone


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## ATRguitar91 (Nov 20, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Attempting to get a Plini Electric Sunrise or David Maxim Miccic Bilo part 3 rhythm tone


Then I'd second my recommendation above but use the Horizon Drive with the attack at 2 or 3. The default Vitriol will get you close, and dual Cali V30 in the Fredman mic setup: 1 57 dynamic at cap edge, the second 57 around 5 on the position at 45 degrees is what I've been using.

Once you get the amp and cab set right, everything else is icing on the cake. Guys like Plini and Milo don't use tons of gain, so that should factor into how you dial it in. I would think you'd need to boost to get it tight enough, but not a super aggressive boost. The default settings on the Horizon but put the gain to zero.

There is endless tweaking to be done with the Helix, and there's no substitute for just trying a bunch of stuff.


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 21, 2022)

ATRguitar91 said:


> Then I'd second my recommendation above but use the Horizon Drive with the attack at 2 or 3. The default Vitriol will get you close, and dual Cali V30 in the Fredman mic setup: 1 57 dynamic at cap edge, the second 57 around 5 on the position at 45 degrees is what I've been using.
> 
> Once you get the amp and cab set right, everything else is icing on the cake. Guys like Plini and Milo don't use tons of gain, so that should factor into how you dial it in. I would think you'd need to boost to get it tight enough, but not a super aggressive boost. The default settings on the Horizon but put the gain to zero.
> 
> There is endless tweaking to be done with the Helix, and there's no substitute for just trying a bunch of stuff.


This seems to be a good start, I'm just trying to get a comparison to the neural stuff. Any suggestions for leads? I can't figure out the delay or reverb settings, they sound too close and not wide enough


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## CanserDYI (Nov 21, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> This seems to be a good start, I'm just trying to get a comparison to the neural stuff. Any suggestions for leads? I can't figure out the delay or reverb settings, they sound too close and not wide enough


Are you using a stereo delay? Just for your knowledge if you didn't pick this up by now: a stereo effect block will sum to mono if the next block is a mono block. It's pretty annoying, frankly but makes sense. If your stereo delay/reverb is in the middle of the chain, make sure everything after is stereo, even if you don't use it stereo.


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## Tree (Nov 21, 2022)

Random thought: 

How are you all running dual amp setups? Is the “correct” way to have a split on the same path summing to the same cab/IR? I’ve only ever tried doing one rig on path 1 and then a separate amp and rig on path 2 and it’s always got this slight phasing going on in the high end. At least for high gain applications. I’ve got a slow few days at work this week, so I’m sitting here wondering


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## CanserDYI (Nov 21, 2022)

Tree said:


> Random thought:
> 
> How are you all running dual amp setups? Is the “correct” way to have a split on the same path summing to the same cab/IR? I’ve only ever tried doing one rig on path 1 and then a separate amp and rig on path 2 and it’s always got this slight phasing going on in the high end. At least for high gain applications. I’ve got a slow few days at work this week, so I’m sitting here wondering


Do you mean dual amp as in both amps running at the same time like a blended hi gain set up? Or do you mean two amps like a clean amp and a dirty amp? I have patches with both and opinions on both. Also, are you on a Stomp or LT/Floor/Native?

If you're running two high gain amps, you can flip the polarity of "path b" and it fixes a lot of phasing issues Ive run into using 2 amps.


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## Tree (Nov 21, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Do you mean dual amp as in both amps running at the same time like a blended hi gain set up? Or do you mean two amps like a clean amp and a dirty amp? I have patches with both and opinions on both. Also, are you on a Stomp or LT/Floor/Native?
> 
> If you're running two high gain amps, you can flip the polarity of "path b" and it fixes a lot of phasing issues Ive run into using 2 amps.



Two high gain amps simultaneously, on an LT. I’ve tried the polarity settings and messing with the latency of the different IRs as well, but nothing quiet does the trick. It’s always a little too janky for my liking.


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 22, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Are you using a stereo delay? Just for your knowledge if you didn't pick this up by now: a stereo effect block will sum to mono if the next block is a mono block. It's pretty annoying, frankly but makes sense. If your stereo delay/reverb is in the middle of the chain, make sure everything after is stereo, even if you don't use it stereo.


I think it is stereo, it just sounds like a smaller room, compared to 1/4 on the neural stuff at least.

I dig the helix for sure, I kinda wish the GUI and EQ looked more like the amp sims I'm use to. It's not too difficult to navigate, Its just different to me 

Also, some of the reverbs and or delays are locked with certain amps it seems


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## CanserDYI (Nov 22, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Also, some of the reverbs and or delays are locked with certain amps it seems


Not that I've ever heard? What effects are you locked out of? The only time I've ever had effects be "locked" is when my helix runs out of DSP (computing power essentially). I'm pretty sure you're on native so not sure when it locks or if it's dependent on your PC's CPU, I don't have native so I'm not sure.


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## Digital Igloo (Nov 22, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Not that I've ever heard? What effects are you locked out of? The only time I've ever had effects be "locked" is when my helix runs out of DSP (computing power essentially). I'm pretty sure you're on native so not sure when it locks or if it's dependent on your PC's CPU, I don't have native so I'm not sure.


Helix Native has Hardware Compatibility Mode—you can have its signal flow and DSP allocation reflect that of any Helix or HX hardware to help make presets you know will work in whatever box you have. You can also turn HCM off which opens it wide up and you can fill up all 32 block locations.

By default, HCM is set to Helix/Rack/LT.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 22, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> I think it is stereo, it just sounds like a smaller room, compared to 1/4 on the neural stuff at least.
> 
> I dig the helix for sure, I kinda wish the GUI and EQ looked more like the amp sims I'm use to. It's not too difficult to navigate, Its just different to me
> 
> Also, some of the reverbs and or delays are locked with certain amps it seems



@Digital Igloo just answered your question I think, it looks like helix native is "limiting" your Preset's DSP to reflect that of a standard Helix, so you don't end up building a preset that wont be able to port over to the hardware Helix.


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## ErockRPh (Nov 26, 2022)

I (unknowingly) ordered my LT literally the day the update was released. I primarily bought it because I wanted my Amplitube tones without being tied to my PC, and when I saw the amp & effect list available I justified it as giving me access to about a million dollars worth of gear for just over a grand. I haven't been able to play with it much yet, but it didn't take me long to be able to dial in something pretty close to "my tone", and I think with some tweaks you guys have mentioned I can get the rest of the way there and beyond. 

Anyways, thanks for all the tips everyone shared in this thread. I just sent a whole list of them to myself to try out later,

PS - is there a list somewhere of what the presets are supposed to be? Being an old school metalhead, some of these seem obvious (Justice Fo' Y'All, Cowboys from DFW), but there are a lot where I'm not sure what they are. For me, the presets are a good way to see the different things the Helix can do, but more than half of them are like "WTF is this supposed to do?" to me. And others just don't sound like what I'm expecting (I'm assuming Billy Kastodon is supposed to be Bill Kelleher's tone?)

PPS - I wish there was a bit more time put into the bass presets to show some diversity. I'm a guitarist first, and I'm definitely not an expert at dialing in a bass tone. A clicky Fieldy-style bass tone seems like a no-brainer, love it or hate it. Peter Steele, Geddy Lee from Moving Pictures, Steve Harris, etc. would make for some great "starter" presets.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 26, 2022)

ErockRPh said:


> I (unknowingly) ordered my LT literally the day the update was released. I primarily bought it because I wanted my Amplitube tones without being tied to my PC, and when I saw the amp & effect list available I justified it as giving me access to about a million dollars worth of gear for just over a grand. I haven't been able to play with it much yet, but it didn't take me long to be able to dial in something pretty close to "my tone", and I think with some tweaks you guys have mentioned I can get the rest of the way there and beyond.
> 
> Anyways, thanks for all the tips everyone shared in this thread. I just sent a whole list of them to myself to try out later,
> 
> ...


if you just got your LT, just a reminder you can pick up Native for $50 right now.


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## vertibration (Nov 26, 2022)

Helix Native should have a block that is called "audio", and allows you to place it anywhere in the chain, so you can put effects before it when you use hardware. I know it can be done, you can kinda do this in Ableton within a midi channel and an external instrument plugin within Ableton. I think it would be very useful for those who want to use Native as an all in one effects module with their tube amps. Just put Native on an audio track, add an audio block, and place and OD block before the audio block so you can use overdrives, comps and eq's


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 27, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Helix Native should have a block that is called "audio", and allows you to place it anywhere in the chain, so you can put effects before it when you use hardware. I know it can be done, you can kinda do this in Ableton within a midi channel and an external instrument plugin within Ableton. I think it would be very useful for those who want to use Native as an all in one effects module with their tube amps. Just put Native on an audio track, add an audio block, and place and OD block before the audio block so you can use overdrives, comps and eq's


Maybe I'm understanding incorrectly, but how would you do that on a printed guitar track without having access to the DI signal, as well?


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## vertibration (Nov 27, 2022)

For instance, in Ableton. Open a midi track, place an external effect plugin on the midi track, within the external effect, you can choose your audio source (tube amp), then place effects before that source. My point is, it would be cool if Line 6 could do the same thing. Basically re-routing the audio signal to an audio block rather than before the actual plugin.


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 27, 2022)

vertibration said:


> For instance, in Ableton. Open a midi track, place an external effect plugin on the midi track, within the external effect, you can choose your audio source (tube amp), then place effects before that source. My point is, it would be cool if Line 6 could do the same thing. Basically re-routing the audio signal to an audio block rather than before the actual plugin.


Again, not sure I'm following correctly as it's been years since I've used Ableton, but if you're using MIDI that's completely different. The effects blocks have access to the processed and unprocessed signal. I don't see how that would be possible with a guitar track that isn't a DI'd signal. There would be no notes to process before the signal is sent into it.

That's essentially the same as putting all your pedals before the amp, then adding an input box after them all in front of the amp. You'd get no signal into the effects that weren't in the loop. I'm so confused how that'd even work


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## vertibration (Nov 27, 2022)

MatrixClaw said:


> Again, not sure I'm following correctly as it's been years since I've used Ableton, but if you're using MIDI that's completely different. The effects blocks have access to the processed and unprocessed signal. I don't see how that would be possible with a guitar track that isn't a DI'd signal. There would be no notes to process before the signal is sent into it.
> 
> That's essentially the same as putting all your pedals before the amp, then adding an input box after them all in front of the amp. You'd get no signal into the effects that weren't in the loop. I'm so confused how that'd even work


No offense, I think you may be misunderstanding. The midi track in Ableton is only an example of how you can route audio, while also placing an effect before an audio block. The example is not meant to be taken literally obviously because I am using a midi track as an example

I think the way it could work is if Helix Native had an audio router button that muted the main audio, and rerouted it to an audio block to be placed anywhere in the chain. I do understand what you mean by not getting signal from effects before the audio block. However, that is something Line 6 would have to account for by making sure the entire chain is considered for the main output


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## CanserDYI (Nov 27, 2022)

@vertibration do you mean a Send/return block? Because you definitely can route the audio to external source and back into the helix if that's what you're asking?


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 27, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> @vertibration do you mean a Send/return block? Because you definitely can route the audio to external source and back into the helix if that's what you're asking?


That's what I assumed he meant at first, but he mentioned using it in Helix Native with a tube amp. I'm guessing he wants to do some sort of 4 cable method but with a plugin? I mean... MAYBE possible, but that's kind of the point of the hardware units. If he wants to record a tube amp and then route effects in front of the amp and after it, that's not really going to work...


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## vertibration (Nov 28, 2022)

Yea, i mean with the software, and I know its not going to work, Im just sayin, I wish there was a way for it to somehow work. Anyway, moving on


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## ErockRPh (Nov 28, 2022)

Huge thanks to everyone posting about the Vital distortion in front of the Sunn amps. When I first started playing with those amps I was trying my usual suspects (RAT, RAT/808, RAT/Timmy, FZ-2, etc.), and I just couldn't get it to Doom. Once I tried the Life pedal, I was instantly channelling 1990's Matt Pike and it was awesome.

FYI - a good way to freeze up your cellphone for a while is to open the UG app and try to load the tab for Dopesmoker...


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## GunpointMetal (Nov 28, 2022)

vertibration said:


> No offense, I think you may be misunderstanding. The midi track in Ableton is only an example of how you can route audio, while also placing an effect before an audio block. The example is not meant to be taken literally obviously because I am using a midi track as an example
> 
> I think the way it could work is if Helix Native had an audio router button that muted the main audio, and rerouted it to an audio block to be placed anywhere in the chain. I do understand what you mean by not getting signal from effects before the audio block. However, that is something Line 6 would have to account for by making sure the entire chain is considered for the main output


What your asking is what most people would just buy the hardware instead of the software for. You theoretically could do what you want, you'd just need two instances of native running and then use your DAW routing options to get the audio in and out. I think 99% of people that want to use it that way in an actual live context would opt for the Floor or LT hardware models, or use two native instances on a DI track. Once you've got a couple AD/DA conversions going and anything else happening in your project you're going start having uncomfortable levels of latency for live playing anyways.


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## Digital Igloo (Nov 28, 2022)

vertibration said:


> No offense, I think you may be misunderstanding. The midi track in Ableton is only an example of how you can route audio, while also placing an effect before an audio block. The example is not meant to be taken literally obviously because I am using a midi track as an example
> 
> I think the way it could work is if Helix Native had an audio router button that muted the main audio, and rerouted it to an audio block to be placed anywhere in the chain. I do understand what you mean by not getting signal from effects before the audio block. However, that is something Line 6 would have to account for by making sure the entire chain is considered for the main output


You mean like a sidechain block? Plugins don't really have access to fancy DAW routings outside of sidechaining. Ableton can do with with their own plugins, I suppose, but 3rd-party plugins are at the mercy of plugin format standards (AAX, AU, VST 3, etc.).


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## vertibration (Nov 28, 2022)

No, not like sidechaining, but I understand the current restrictions. Hold up, lemme ask my boys at the Surge Discord if the CLAP format can accommodate flexible audio routing within an effect plugin......will post when I hear back from them


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## Roberto Djentz (Nov 29, 2022)

Anybody got any new demos up yet using the helix after the update? I've seen a few, just curious if anyone has found the magical tone


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## vertibration (Nov 29, 2022)

Digital Igloo said:


> You mean like a sidechain block? Plugins don't really have access to fancy DAW routings outside of sidechaining. Ableton can do with with their own plugins, I suppose, but 3rd-party plugins are at the mercy of plugin format standards (AAX, AU, VST 3, etc.).


After talking to Evil Dragon on the surge discord, we think enabling the send/receive block that is currently disabled for Helix Native would solve this issue. Using an audio interface, essentially one could use the FX loop in the tube amp with the send receive block in Helix Native to accommodate placing the audio signal anywhere in the chain?


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## Tree (Nov 29, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> Anybody got any new demos up yet using the helix after the update? I've seen a few, just curious if anyone has found the magical tone


I finally got around to whipping something together. It’s not 100% finished (or even cleanly played ), but it’s the first recording I’ve done since the update.

Guitars are quad tracked, 2L and 2R using the Badonk and Invective models. Plumes drive with the Badonk, and Horizon drive with the Invective. 3rd party IRs, but I could probably get close enough with the built in cabs if I needed to.









Kirisute Gomen - Master 01.mp3


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com





Also, please forgive the dinky, cheap MIDI intro. I didn’t feel like trying to cop a convincing acoustic tone since I don’t have one to record with at the moment.

*Edit: *forgot to mention the guitar I used. I tracked with my Legator G7, using voice 2 with the Fishman Abasi set. And lead guitars are the same chain as the Badonk rhythms just with Ping Pong delay and Glitz Verb.


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## CanserDYI (Nov 29, 2022)

Tree said:


> I finally got around to whipping something together. It’s not 100% finished (or even cleanly played ), but it’s the first recording I’ve done since the update.
> 
> Guitars are quad tracked, 2L and 2R using the Badonk and Invective models. Plumes drive with the Badonk, and Horizon drive with the Invective. 3rd party IRs, but I could probably get close enough with the built in cabs if I needed to.
> 
> ...


Sounds great man, cool riffage around the 1:00 mark. Symphonic Deathpunk? Just made that up but it sounds pretty fitting haha.


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## Xaeldaren (Nov 29, 2022)

Tree said:


> I finally got around to whipping something together. It’s not 100% finished (or even cleanly played ), but it’s the first recording I’ve done since the update.
> 
> Guitars are quad tracked, 2L and 2R using the Badonk and Invective models. Plumes drive with the Badonk, and Horizon drive with the Invective. 3rd party IRs, but I could probably get close enough with the built in cabs if I needed to.
> 
> ...



That sounds sick as hell!


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## Tree (Nov 29, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Sounds great man, cool riffage around the 1:00 mark. Symphonic Deathpunk? Just made that up but it sounds pretty fitting haha.


Thanks, homie! I can’t take credit for the riffs, it’s an old Trivium song. I dig the new sub genre name though! 


Xaeldaren said:


> That sounds sick as hell!


Thanks duder! I think the mids are perhaps a tad much, but maybe my ears are just sick of listening to this over and over.


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## Digital Igloo (Nov 29, 2022)

vertibration said:


> After talking to Evil Dragon on the surge discord, we think enabling the send/receive block that is currently disabled for Helix Native would solve this issue. Using an audio interface, essentially one could use the FX loop in the tube amp with the send receive block in Helix Native to accommodate placing the audio signal anywhere in the chain?


Not an engineer, but if Cubase, Logic, and ProTools can't accommodate what you want with AAX, AU, and VST plugins, I doubt I'd be able to convince the powers that be. If Helix Native ran standalone, however, we could route FX Loop blocks to and from your interfaces I/O all day.


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## vertibration (Nov 29, 2022)

Digital Igloo said:


> Not an engineer, but if Cubase, Logic, and ProTools can't accommodate what you want with AAX, AU, and VST plugins, I doubt I'd be able to convince the powers that be. If Helix Native ran standalone, however, we could route FX Loop blocks to and from your interfaces I/O all day.


Ok understood......moving on...........SO WHATS GOOD WITH HELIX AMP CAPTURE  

For real though, everyone else has some sort of Kemper style profiling. Its due time for Helix to join the fray, and make a Capture block for Helix hardware and native


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## Digital Igloo (Nov 29, 2022)

vertibration said:


> For real though, everyone else has some sort of Kemper style profiling.


Neural, now IK, and _kinda_ Mooer are hardly everyone else. I suppose there's also THU, but that's software only.

The math is well-established and we pretty much know how we'd do it differently, but the jury's still out as to whether Line 6 also wants to shamelessly rip off Christoph Kemper and then have our marketing department claim we invented it.


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## thebeesknees22 (Nov 29, 2022)

For a brief moment I thought I cared about profiling. But then I found I could get reaally close to my real amps with the current helix models and it just didn't really matter to me after that. 

Like...it was kinda shocking just how close I could get to my mt-15 or my marshal dsl 2000. Sure it wasn't 100% same same, but it was close.


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## vertibration (Nov 29, 2022)

Digital Igloo said:


> Neural, now IK, and _kinda_ Mooer are hardly everyone else. I suppose there's also THU, but that's software only.
> 
> The math is well-established and we pretty much know how we'd do it differently, but the jury's still out as to whether Line 6 also wants to shamelessly rip off Christoph Kemper and then have our marketing department claim we invented it.


Its not a rip off in the slightest. As is with all things, a company like Kemper comes out, others will do it their own way. Nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, it pushes technology forward. I follow a lot of guitarists on instagram, and a whole lot of them are using Quad. Line 6 could seriously turn some heads for sure. 

I say Line 6 should push forward full throttle, and use all of your resources to do something amazing for everyone.


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## vertibration (Nov 29, 2022)

thebeesknees22 said:


> For a brief moment I thought I cared about profiling. But then I found I could get reaally close to my real amps with the current helix models and it just didn't really matter to me after that.
> 
> Like...it was kinda shocking just how close I could get to my mt-15 or my marshal dsl 2000. Sure it wasn't 100% same same, but it was close.


If Line 6 had a capture block you might be singing a different tune lol. Lets wait and see


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## MatrixClaw (Nov 29, 2022)

I don't really get the craze with profiling. I had the Kemper when it first came out and it was cool to profile my own amps, but I found all other profiles to be lacking for me, mostly because they were dialed in by someone else using their own gear. It's a great tool for being able to get your studio tone in a live setting but other than that, I'd much rather have a model recreating the actual amp so I can dial it in how I would if it were in front of me.


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## trem licking (Nov 29, 2022)

modelling is just as good as profiling, sound-wise. yeah sure, it's neat that software and plug-ins are doing it as well now, but it's just not necessary with the quality of modelling available. much less flexible too


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## Universe74 (Nov 29, 2022)

Roberto Djentz said:


> So, I opened a thread pertaining to presets and demos using the helix... But not a soul has responded.
> 
> Soooo, if more of you would like to share your presets or details, I'd be happy to try them out
> 
> ...


Facebook has a 40k Helix member group. "Line 6 Helix Family User Group OFFICIAL and ORIGINAL"


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## Universe74 (Nov 29, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Not going to lie I think the helix sounded better in that example. I honestly think it's down to the cabs in this example.


Agree...second is too boomy. At any rate the various EQ's available would get you the second tone on the Helix.


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## vertibration (Nov 30, 2022)

trem licking said:


> modelling is just as good as profiling, sound-wise. yeah sure, it's neat that software and plug-ins are doing it as well now, but it's just not necessary with the quality of modelling available. much less flexible too


Beg to differ, im sure a lot of people would be happy with a Helix capture feature. Who knows, maybe Line 6 does something different, something unique that allows a lot more modifications


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Dec 1, 2022)

I couldn't resist picking up a copy of Native for the Black Friday price  so far so good!

I've only made up a handful of basic presets, but it's been very easy to figure out the interface and dial in great tones. The new cabinet section really exceeded my expectations, so much so that I haven't even bothered loading up my normal impulses except to do a quick A/B.


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 1, 2022)

I have yet to play a profiler that I didn't want to tweak beyond what sounded good with the controls available. Profiling even further homogenizes the "internet metal band" sound that a lot of people like to complain about.


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## STRHelvete (Dec 1, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Beg to differ, im sure a lot of people would be happy with a Helix capture feature. Who knows, maybe Line 6 does something different, something unique that allows a lot more modifications


Nah, I'm good. I don't need a profiler..just an amp/modeller I can tweak and get good sounds. I don't even care if the models sound like the real thing. All that matters is whether or not I can use them


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## fabronaut (Dec 2, 2022)

vertibration said:


> I dont think either is better than each other. Both can sound great. I still think Tonehub sounds best (kemper style profiler), but Im becoming instrigued by Mooer’s inexpensive tone capture features tbh.


I tried the Mooer Preamp X2 pedal (v.2) and thought it was a big step in the right direction for that type of product / price point. the software is surprisingly good -- wayyyy better than the janky but functional barebones package that I have to use with my Mooer Radar. I'll always have a soft spot for that Mooer Radar, given that it opened my eyes to the huge difference that IRs (and erm, obviously, cab + mic combinations, as that's a large part of what it's emulating) can make.

the reason why I'm mentioning the Preamp pedal and not the dedicated Mooer modeler is that you can load the proprietary Mooer captures into the Preamp pedal. I think you need one of the Mooer multiFX modeling units to create a capture though. there are a bunch out there and some were way better than others to my ears. (could be partly since I ran it all into the only tube amp FX + cab I have, as it sounded way better than the sims.) it exacerbates the EQ issue though, as you can't tweak the captures at all beyond the settings it was captured with. even moreso than the included preamp sims.

my biggest criticism with the Preamp X2 would be that the core EQ seems to be tailored to certain frequency bands, so the various preamp models all sounded very "same-y" if that makes any sense. it's as if the EQ responds in more or less the same way, no matter which model you're using? kinda like I jammed an EQ pedal into the FX loop and tried to make a Twin sound like a Rectifier or a JCM 800 by bumping certain frequencies and cutting others?

the built in cabsims were pretty meh to my ears, and it doesn't seem to handle third party IRs very well. they sell an equally priced Cabsim / IR loader pedal, so they aren't gonna be giving that functionality away for free, I guess. perhaps there isn't enough DSP / guts in the Preamp X2 to do it at a high enough fidelity to make it worthwhile. it sounds way better being fed into a tube FX return (duh, it's a preamp), as it felt very flat and unresponsive if just using an IR alone. no power section response / interaction, I guess?

anyway, I just got a Helix Stomp XL and it's amazing. the new 3.5 update is great for a novice like myself. the example patches are really helpful and having nicer presets out of the box is sweet. I'm still figuring out how to dial in a halfway decent tone based on tips (low / high shelf EQ, mic sim placement, etc.) and this is making it wayyyyy easier than physical equipment would. software UI is consistent and simple. less time spent developing / debugging fancy looking image models means more amps and effects to play with, so I'm all for that!


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## fabronaut (Dec 2, 2022)

TL;DR summary (probably in a main Helix thread somewhere) -- new owners of Helix family products get the core software bundled for free.


thebeesknees22 said:


> if you just got your LT, just a reminder you can pick up Native for $50 right now.


$50 for Native is super reasonable. I bought an HX Stomp XL two days before the Black Friday promo, as I figured the Native discount etc. was all there would be. right after I purchased Native on Friday afternoon at the discounted rate I came across the promotion and facepalmed. lousy timing...  filed a support ticket with Line 6 and politely asked if I could get the bundle given the context. they went beyond that - gave me the promo and refunded the Native purchase. fantastic customer support right there. I guess I should look at what the extended warranty costs, although I'm pretty gentle on my equipment, as I'm a bedroom player.

I rented the Helix LT for a month awhile back, thought "damn this is great -- but a bit large, given that I'm still figuring a regular pedalboard out?" I'd been waffling on buying the small HX Stomp for ages, hoping to snipe a used one for a good price. I kept thinking the smaller form factor would be ideal for how I'd integrate it. really glad I got the HX Stomp XL, it's the Goldilocks "just right" solution for me, and I wouldn't have known it until it I started messing with it.

it really isn't "just a bunch of extra switches" like I originally assumed. having all the I/O on the back makes cable routing easier / less messy. it's about the size that it's not gonna be super annoying to bring along to my buddy's place and jam, but still has all the functionality I'd want / need (and then some) if I don't want to bring a lot of stuff.

it's made my standalone tuner and a bunch of pedals I own redundant. how did I not realize how good the overdrives and some of the fuzzes were the first time around? I knew the reverbs, delays, etc. were glorious, hadn't got around to trying the pitch shifting, octave, auto-swell, etc. and they're fantastic. it can stand in for any of the pedals I own and aside from a few particular sounds, I'm way less inclined to chase after other stuff now.

goddamn, this thing is fantastic. so much to learn! super cool and useful.


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## CanserDYI (Dec 2, 2022)

I have literally zero interest in Helix/Line 6 wasting time working on profiling.

The one thing that I think would be interesting, and maybe this exists, but I think it'd be cool to be able to feed a modeler a guitar track and have some sort of AI spit out a patch that gets you in the ballpark, and a signal chain to match, so you can tweak individually. I have literally ZERO idea how difficult that'd be, but that would be MUCH cooler than just taking slice of an amp sound that isn't really tweakable.

Damn, if this doesnt exist, I want credit for this!


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## Xaeldaren (Dec 2, 2022)

I'd love to see more Line6 original amps! The Litigator is probably my favourite amp they've done (though I know people adore the Badonk - I haven't budget from the Revv amps to really get into it too much).


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## Tree (Dec 2, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I have literally zero interest in Helix/Line 6 wasting time working on profiling.
> 
> The one thing that I think would be interesting, and maybe this exists, but I think it'd be cool to be able to feed a modeler a guitar track and have some sort of AI spit out a patch that gets you in the ballpark, and a signal chain to match, so you can tweak individually. I have literally ZERO idea how difficult that'd be, but that would be MUCH cooler than just taking slice of an amp sound that isn't really tweakable.
> 
> Damn, if this doesnt exist, I want credit for this!


Not 1:1 the same, but Fractal has the EQ Match capability going on since the Axe II. That required you to ballpark your own tone first, but it’s largely the same conceptually. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was doable on a Helix/Fractal unit in the way you described. That said, to me that would take some of the fun out of it, but I sure as hell wouldn’t turn down a feature like that.


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## CanserDYI (Dec 2, 2022)

Tree said:


> Not 1:1 the same, but Fractal has the EQ Match capability going on since the Axe II. That required you to ballpark your own tone first, but it’s largely the same conceptually. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was doable on a Helix/Fractal unit in the way you described. That said, to me that would take some of the fun out of it, but I sure as hell wouldn’t turn down a feature like that.


Does the fractal tone match produce a full patch with individual amp/cab/effect blocks and where they fall in the chain?


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## Tree (Dec 2, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Does the fractal tone match produce a full patch with individual amp/cab/effect blocks and where they fall in the chain?


To my knowledge it’s just tweaking a setup you already came up with. So, you get reasonably close on your own and then it does final EQ moves to get as close as possible to the tone you’re targeting. 

It might be a bit much to have a script run through all the possible gear choices, but here’s hoping for the future!


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## CanserDYI (Dec 2, 2022)

Tree said:


> To my knowledge it’s just tweaking a setup you already came up with. So, you get reasonably close on your own and then it does final EQ moves to get as close as possible to the tone you’re targeting.
> 
> It might be a bit much to have a script run through all the possible gear choices, but here’s hoping for the future!


Ohhh I totally understand what you're saying now, you build your patch and tone match just gets the last like 10%, interesting. Yeah, cool, but for me I'm not really trying to get exact tones, I just want ballpark I'm totally okay with ballpark, but sometimes I have zero idea what effect was used, what timing was done in delays/reverbs/modulations etc and it'd be cool to throw a processed final guitar track and have it reverse engineer the patch. Like you said, here's hoping for the future because I just got stoked about something that doesn't even exist, haha.


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## vertibration (Dec 2, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I have literally zero interest in Helix/Line 6 wasting time working on profiling.
> 
> The one thing that I think would be interesting, and maybe this exists, but I think it'd be cool to be able to feed a modeler a guitar track and have some sort of AI spit out a patch that gets you in the ballpark, and a signal chain to match, so you can tweak individually. I have literally ZERO idea how difficult that'd be, but that would be MUCH cooler than just taking slice of an amp sound that isn't really tweakable.
> 
> Damn, if this doesnt exist, I want credit for this!


Would you be interested if Line 6 offered a full blown capture per component? No one else really does that. What if they could? I think that would be very interesting for those who may not care for profiling.

A full on capture of every knob on an amp would be doable if Line 6 had a premade block with parameters you could add, or take away dependent on the amp you are capturing. So for instance, an engl might have more parameters than a 6505, so the capture block can be edited before you make your capture so you can add all of the additional parameters to the block before the capture is made


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 2, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Would you be interested if Line 6 offered a full blown capture per component? No one else really does that. What if they could? I think that would be very interesting for those who may not care for profiling.
> 
> A full on capture of every knob on an amp would be doable if Line 6 had a premade block with parameters you could add, or take away dependent on the amp you are capturing. So for instance, an engl might have more parameters than a 6505, so the capture block can be edited before you make your capture so you can add all of the additional parameters to the block before the capture is made


At that point you're literally doing component modeling (which is what L6 and Fractal already do) with extra steps, and you're making the end user do the work.


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## CanserDYI (Dec 2, 2022)

vertibration said:


> Would you be interested if Line 6 offered a full blown capture per component? No one else really does that. What if they could? I think that would be very interesting for those who may not care for profiling.
> 
> A full on capture of every knob on an amp would be doable if Line 6 had a premade block with parameters you could add, or take away dependent on the amp you are capturing. So for instance, an engl might have more parameters than a 6505, so the capture block can be edited before you make your capture so you can add all of the additional parameters to the block before the capture is made


I mean if i'm going to have to tweak and find my sound anyways, who cares if it was a captured amp or the amp models they have onboard anyways if you like the end sound? I really don't care about profiling my real amps, I already have patches that get me 99% of the way there and frankly, that last 1 percent I just really don't care about. I don't really care about picking up other people's profiled amps, as I'll have to bend knobs and tweak anyways so again, might as well find the built in flavor that's already there. Just seems like a very expensive venture for helix to dive into, for very very very few people to utilize and care about  again I'm just one guy, what do I know, but i'd muuuuch rather they spend that R&D money into new cabs and amp models, new effects, bug fixes, software optimization, and BRINGING THE DAMN TUNER TO HX EDIT (Still have zero idea why this isn't a thing, sometimes my helix isn't visible from where I'm playing)


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 2, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> I mean if i'm going to have to tweak and find my sound anyways, who cares if it was a captured amp or the amp models they have onboard anyways if you like the end sound? I really don't care about profiling my real amps, I already have patches that get me 99% of the way there and frankly, that last 1 percent I just really don't care about.


And that last 1% could very well be the parts tolerance of your particular amp, or the room you're dialing it in. I can't imagine a scenario outside of a cover band where a guitarist would want/need a 1:1 tone from someone else's rig.


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## CanserDYI (Dec 2, 2022)

I actually would have some interest in stomp box and effect profiling? That'd be cool, but not so much amp profiling.


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## ExMachina (Dec 2, 2022)

Profiling probably wouldn't be too much overhead tbh https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/10/3/766

I have no proof but this is what I assumed neural and tonex were doing.


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## MatrixClaw (Dec 2, 2022)

fabronaut said:


> TL;DR summary (probably in a main Helix thread somewhere) -- new owners of Helix family products get the core software bundled for free.
> 
> $50 for Native is super reasonable. I bought an HX Stomp XL two days before the Black Friday promo, as I figured the Native discount etc. was all there would be. right after I purchased Native on Friday afternoon at the discounted rate I came across the promotion and facepalmed. lousy timing...  filed a support ticket with Line 6 and politely asked if I could get the bundle given the context. they went beyond that - gave me the promo and refunded the Native purchase. fantastic customer support right there. I guess I should look at what the extended warranty costs, although I'm pretty gentle on my equipment, as I'm a bedroom player.
> 
> ...


Well, damn. Now I'm glad I didn't just upgrade to Native from POD Farm. Might have to just pick up a new HX Stomp!


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## James Freeman (Dec 3, 2022)

Time to get off the capturing hype train, it's one dimensional and the vast majority of captures sound like crap.


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## vertibration (Dec 5, 2022)

Ive found some gems in tonex, and Kemper sounds amazing. I never understood being against a company moving toward new things like amp capture. Listen, someone is bound to get it right and do a really good job with it


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## CTID (Dec 16, 2022)

been working on this on and off for a week or so, definitely needs some work but i'm happy with where it's going

Edit: it's been a minute since i actually tracked it, but i know the rhythm and leads are the Friedman with the Mesa 4x12 and a TS, cleans i _think _were the matchless model with a touch of reverb and compressed as hell, not sure i'm feeling about it atm but it functions for right now. Bass is an SVT though i can't remember which with the darkglass


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## thebeesknees22 (Dec 16, 2022)

CTID said:


> been working on this on and off for a week or so, definitely needs some work but i'm happy with where it's going



nice dude!


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## CTID (Dec 16, 2022)

thanks! i definitely need to clean up a lot so i'll probably end up retracking several parts of it but i'm generally pretty unhappy with the things i write, and i feel better about that than i do about most of it


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## CanserDYI (Dec 17, 2022)

CTID said:


> been working on this on and off for a week or so, definitely needs some work but i'm happy with where it's going
> 
> Edit: it's been a minute since i actually tracked it, but i know the rhythm and leads are the Friedman with the Mesa 4x12 and a TS, cleans i _think _were the matchless model with a touch of reverb and compressed as hell, not sure i'm feeling about it atm but it functions for right now. Bass is an SVT though i can't remember which with the darkglass



Sounds awesome! The bass tone was *muah*.


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## bjjman (Dec 18, 2022)

CTID said:


> been working on this on and off for a week or so, definitely needs some work but i'm happy with where it's going
> 
> Edit: it's been a minute since i actually tracked it, but i know the rhythm and leads are the Friedman with the Mesa 4x12 and a TS, cleans i _think _were the matchless model with a touch of reverb and compressed as hell, not sure i'm feeling about it atm but it functions for right now. Bass is an SVT though i can't remember which with the darkglass



Really, really good. Very impressive work @CTID!


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## vertibration (Dec 19, 2022)

My thoughts about amp capture, profiling after using Tonex a bit more is the whole "bias amp" UI design really sucks. I think Line 6 could really knock it out of the park because all their stuff is pretty uniform. I agree with those who dont like amp captures, and think its gimmicky. I actually do agree, if you look at Tonex. The menus, tonecloud, how the amp models look. Helix just looks clean. I still think Helix could use a fresh UI update though. Wish they could offer a choice between sliders and knobs.


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## CTID (Dec 19, 2022)

I really wouldn't be surprised if the Helix Mk2 or whatever L6 ends up doing in the future had a touch-capacitive screen, I just hope if they do that they don't _also_ get rid of the knobs on the unit. I still do literally 100% of my editing on the unit itself and not in HX Edit so i'd like more options for fine tuning.

on the other hand, if they want to keep giving me free amp models forever i'm also cool with that


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## vertibration (Dec 19, 2022)

So many amp models I would love to see from them. EVH, Omega, KSR, Driftwood, Fortin


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## Digital Igloo (Dec 19, 2022)

CTID said:


> I really wouldn't be surprised if the Helix Mk2 or whatever L6 ends up doing in the future had a touch-capacitive screen, I just hope if they do that they don't _also_ get rid of the knobs on the unit. I still do literally 100% of my editing on the unit itself and not in HX Edit so i'd like more options for fine tuning.


Many years ago, we publicly stated the next flagship would likely have a touchscreen (because an early UI/UX design had one, as did Stagescape M20d, whose architecture Helix was based upon). Certainly before InMusic started developing Headrush Pedalboard.


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## ExMachina (Dec 19, 2022)

A touchscreen and then integrate fab filter in there and I'd be totally set.


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## thebeesknees22 (Dec 19, 2022)

I want a holographic screen that'll pop up in front of my face like in all those sci fi movies.

just sayin'. it's 2022. we're supposed to be in the "future" by now.


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## Shask (Dec 19, 2022)

thebeesknees22 said:


> I want a holographic screen that'll pop up in front of my face like in all those sci fi movies.
> 
> just sayin'. it's 2022. we're supposed to be in the "future" by now.


Nah, Voice Command. Like Alexa. "Helix, please turn up my bass to 7".


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## thebeesknees22 (Dec 19, 2022)

Shask said:


> Nah, Voice Command. Like Alexa. "Helix, please turn up my bass to 7".


7! ...7?! 

My friend....here we go to 11.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 19, 2022)

"Helix, ignore everything the soundguy and other guitarist says"


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## Kyle Jordan (Dec 20, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> "Helix, ignore everything the soundguy and other guitarist says"


Helix: "Would you like for me to increase the output volume slightly after each song as well?"


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## op1e (Jan 7, 2023)

I would like loops to not cost a block. You would think there would be a work around like the split path points. I got my Stomp right before the XL launched. I could get one of those too and still have a smaller footprint than an LT . Been thinking about moving some gear and getting the rack but that's some debt there and I think the platform is getting long in the tooth. How far out is the next thing?


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## STRHelvete (Jan 7, 2023)

op1e said:


> I would like loops to not cost a block. You would think there would be a work around like the split path points. I got my Stomp right before the XL launched. I could get one of those too and still have a smaller footprint than an LT . Been thinking about moving some gear and getting the rack but that's some debt there and I think the platform is getting long in the tooth. How far out is the next thing?


Why would you need the next big thing if what you have works? Would it really matter what a new model has if what you have suits your needs?


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## Guitarjon (Sunday at 10:05 AM)

Some things that I'd want in future updates would be:

- more IR slots
- newly done Rectifier (preferably with more than one mode/channel)
- more high-gain amps (yes, more!)
- capture tech



James Freeman said:


> Time to get off the capturing hype train, it's one dimensional and the vast majority of captures sound like crap.



I personally don't agree. I love being able to capture my own amps. I've gotten some great results with both the Quad Cortex and Tonex myself. When you have a lot of amps (or even just one for that matter) it's just great to be able to put them inside your modeler and use them whenever/however you'd like in a signal chain. Imho, it's the future and I hope it keeps improving and that more brands jump on that train.


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## GunpointMetal (Sunday at 10:47 AM)

Guitarjon said:


> Some things that I'd want in future updates would be:
> 
> - more IR slots
> - newly done Rectifier (preferably with more than one mode/channel)
> ...


I think capture/profiling stuff is great for people with amp collections or people who want exact artist tones, but it kind of seems like the end goal of captures would be capturing the full function of an amp instead of snapshot…which sounds almost like it would just be a roundabout way getting the same results as component modeling.


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## Guitarjon (Sunday at 10:49 AM)

GunpointMetal said:


> I think capture/profiling stuff is great for people with amp collections or people who want exact artist tones, but it kind of seems like the end goal of captures would be capturing the full function of an amp instead of snapshot…which sounds almost like it would just be a roundabout way getting the same results as component modeling.



While I hear what you're saying, I don't mind it at all that you're just getting snapshots, most capture devices allow you to tweak the models after the fact but besides that, most of my amps have one setting (per channel) that sounds the best anyway. That's just what I've found. So to me that's not a big deal.


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## op1e (Sunday at 11:10 AM)

STRHelvete said:


> Why would you need the next big thing if what you have works? Would it really matter what a new model has if what you have suits your needs?


I just wanted the rack for more I/O and tired of the limited amount of blocks. I've gotten spoiled with Helix that I can do everything with one patch almost. My only consideration was if I drop $1600 on the rack this year is the new one around the corner and comes out after that I'd rather have the newer unit.


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