# Man drilling a hole with a gun kills wife



## Lee (Mar 26, 2008)

Man Shooting Hole Through Wall Kills Wife - News Story - KCTV Kansas City


...You can't make this stuff up.


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## -K4G- (Mar 26, 2008)

WOW..how dumb is that?


guns just dont belong in a home.period.


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## ohio_eric (Mar 26, 2008)

WOW


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## D-EJ915 (Mar 26, 2008)

wtf, man people really are retarded, stupid people should not be allowed to live by themselves


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## ohio_eric (Mar 26, 2008)

He didn't live alone. He lived with his wife until he shot her.


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## Groff (Mar 26, 2008)

> "He was under the impression that everybody was inside the residence"



AND? Ok, so he was aware that people were in the fucking house...

What a dumbshit. I mean, if he was going to do something that dumb, he could have at least said "Hey... Don't stand in the bedroom!"


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## Nick (Mar 26, 2008)

thats fucking retarded no other word describes that behaviour


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## Mr. S (Mar 26, 2008)

wow.... that... thats just dumb... really, really fucking dumb


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## D-EJ915 (Mar 26, 2008)

ohio_eric said:


> He didn't live alone. He lived with his wife until he shot her.


no I mean like, unsupervised


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## playstopause (Mar 26, 2008)

> Her husband, Ronald Long, fired the shot from the inside of their home after several unsuccessful efforts to punch a hole through the exterior wall using other means.


That's so freakin' retarded. What a moron!!!


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## Stitch (Mar 26, 2008)

What is Americans obsession with guns as power tools?


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## kung_fu (Mar 26, 2008)

Stitch said:


> What is Americans obsession with guns as power tools?



I blame Tim Allen.


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## lordofthesewers (Mar 26, 2008)

it happens only in Kansas City


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## noodles (Mar 26, 2008)

Stitch said:


> What is Americans obsession with guns as power tools?



This is a gun as a power tool:







Ramsets use a .22cal blank round to generate the force necessary to anchor a nail into concrete.

What this moron was doing was being stupid with a handgun.


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## Rick (Mar 26, 2008)

What the fuck?


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Mar 26, 2008)

KillForGod said:


> WOW..how dumb is that?
> 
> 
> guns just dont belong in a home.period.



stupid thing to say, guns dont belong in the hands of idiots. I'm sure when a guy breaks into your home to kill you, rape your wife, and steal your possesions, you'd sing a different tune


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## SevenDeadly (Mar 26, 2008)

I blame satelite tv for having policies that make installation so hard you are forced to "shell' out the dough for them to install it instead of doing it yourself.


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Mar 26, 2008)

SevenDeadly said:


> I blame satelite tv for having policies that make installation so hard you are forced to "shell' out the dough for them to install it instead of doing it yourself.



what a tasteless comment.







those are the best kind


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## El Caco (Mar 26, 2008)

Incredible, did anyone else think of that episode of the Simpsons when they read this?


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## Summers45 (Mar 26, 2008)

What a complete idiot. 

He didn't bother to tell his family he was about to use a fucking gun to blow a hole through the wall, and also didnt realise that even if it didn't injure a family member, the bullet would still go through the wall and probably wreck something like the opposite wall or a TV or whatever in the next room.


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## metalfiend666 (Mar 26, 2008)

How can people be that dumb? 



noodles said:


> This is a gun as a power tool:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They also use a similar system to fix ties to steel beams.


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## Stitch (Mar 26, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> stupid thing to say, guns dont belong in the hands of idiots. I'm sure when a guy breaks into your home to kill you, rape your wife, and steal your possesions, you'd sing a different tune



Its funny how often that doesn't happen here in the UK, and we don't have guns in the home...


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## playstopause (Mar 26, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> I'm sure when a guy breaks into your home to kill you, rape your wife, and steal your possesions, you'd sing a different tune



So you're saying we should all have a gun in case this happens?


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## kristallin (Mar 27, 2008)

SevenDeadly said:


> I blame satelite tv for having policies that make installation so hard you are forced to "shell' out the dough for them to install it instead of doing it yourself.



If he'd bought the deluxe package he'd have gotten free installation. Oh well.


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## Zepp88 (Mar 27, 2008)

Retards like this are why we need gun control...


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## Jason (Mar 27, 2008)

Stitch said:


> Its funny how often that doesn't happen here in the UK, and we don't have guns in the home...



Really thats never ever happend once?  Also ya ever notice how soccer sucks and its not popular in the states so there are never riots at soccer matches were people kill each other like in europe


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## Zepp88 (Mar 27, 2008)

Jason said:


> Really thats never ever happend once?  Also ya ever notice how soccer sucks and its not popular in the states so there are never riots at soccer matches were people kill each other like in europe



Soccer is serious businesss


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## Jason (Mar 27, 2008)

ohio_eric said:


> He didn't live alone. He lived with his wife until he shot her.



He lives alone now


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## Stitch (Mar 27, 2008)

Jason said:


> Really thats never ever happend once?  Also ya ever notice how soccer sucks and its not popular in the states so there are never riots at soccer matches were people kill each other like in europe



But there are gangland shootings, people shooting there wives using guns as drills, people shooting themselves in the legs using shotguns to loosen wheelnuts, people shooting themselves shooting at metal plates, people almost losing eyes due to bad shooting instuction.

I don't really see how football is connected with guns anyway.


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## Nerina (Mar 27, 2008)

TheMissing said:


> "Hey... Don't stand in the bedroom!"





Like, how hard would that have been? 'Hey, um, I gonna like use a GUN in a second, wanna come out the room for a minute?" wow, totally amazing.......


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## Jason (Mar 27, 2008)

Stitch said:


> But there are gangland shootings, people shooting there wives using guns as drills, people shooting themselves in the legs using shotguns to loosen wheelnuts, people shooting themselves shooting at metal plates, people almost losing eyes due to bad shooting instuction.
> 
> I don't really see how football is connected with guns anyway.



It's not.. But if these people are stupid enough to shoot themselves then


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## Zepp88 (Mar 27, 2008)

Stitch said:


> But there are gangland shootings, people shooting there wives using guns as drills, people shooting themselves in the legs using shotguns to loosen wheelnuts, people shooting themselves shooting at metal plates, people almost losing eyes due to bad shooting instuction.
> 
> I don't really see how football is connected with guns anyway.



I think what he means is. There are fuck-tards everywhere, we're just fuck-tards with guns. 

America: Fuck-tards with guns.


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## Nerina (Mar 27, 2008)

Im just glad soccer fans, for the most part, dont tote guns......


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## Stitch (Mar 27, 2008)

Its the fact that you're just slightly more dangerous fucktards in America because guns are so much easier to get a hold of than over here.

So the average lethality - and collateral damage because of - a fucktard is much more in the states.


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## Nerina (Mar 27, 2008)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> stupid thing to say, guns dont belong in the hands of idiots. I'm sure when a guy breaks into your home to kill you, rape your wife, and steal your possesions, you'd sing a different tune





Only, I feel not everyone is able to handle a gun in the home, as this story points out.....


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## courtney2018 (Mar 27, 2008)

KillForGod said:


> guns just dont belong in a home.period.




Sure they do. And in the car and on your person.





playstopause said:


> So you're saying we should all have a gun in case this happens?




Abso-fucking-lutely! About the only thing that Florida is good about is the homeowner has the right to use deadly force if anyone breaks in whether or not they're displaying a weapon. Although I'd rather not shoot someone in my house. Blood is hell to get up out of carpets and walls.





Zepp88 said:


> Retards like this are why we need gun control...




I think of gun control as using 2 hands and hitting your target. And, don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend on pulling it.


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## Nerina (Mar 27, 2008)

I just dont get people using guns for things that guns arent meant for, 
If you're getting robbed, yeah, shoot the robbers ass off, but why aim a gun at a wall,with the INTENTION of 'just blowing out a hole' knowing there are people in your house, there are other tools made for that purpose! Like, ever heard of Home Depot? Just dumb.......


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## Celiak (Mar 27, 2008)

I would like to slap this man.


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## noodles (Mar 27, 2008)

Stitch said:


> Its funny how often that doesn't happen here in the UK, and we don't have guns in the home...



I'll agree with you all day long about handguns: they are easy to conceal and are involved in the majority of all shooting crimes. It is the weapon of a murderer, as gun statistics clearly point out (you don't hear about too many people shooting up a 7-11 with a deer rifle). I see no reason why anyone who is not a cop or a soldier should be carrying a handgun.

However, I see no problem with someone owning a shotgun or a rifle. Not only should you be allowed to hunt, but you should be allowed to defend your home as well. They aren't the type of weapons that one would carry around on their person, since where are you gonna put it? In this case, my idea of gun control is licensing and mandatory, annual safety classes for all gun owners.

The problem isn't the guns, but the morons behind the guns. The line of thinking he was using could have just as easily killed his wife with any manner of common power tools. These are the special breed of morons who think that they can knock down an interior wall with a chainsaw, hammer in nails with the battery end of a cordless drill, and cut through steel studs (in the wall) with a blow torch. It is sad when they take someone else out, instead of them, since mother nature is usually pretty good at eliminating the weaker genes.


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## arktan (Mar 27, 2008)

Just to say something about "American Fucktards"

Here in Switzerland every man has an assault rifle at home (yes, everyone who was in the army and everyone must join the army if not incapacitated)...

Now from what i read everywhere the kills in the US are around 11000 to 13000 per year due to firearms........

here in switzerland we've got over 300 per year for sure (it's different, sometimes 320, sometimes 350) and switzerland is perceived as a secure country.... 

now make the count: The US have (let's say for easier calculations) 210 million dudes and dudettes and switzerland has 7 million

to have the relations we must multiply the number of inhabitants in switzerland with the factor 30 and also the number of firearms-casaulties:

we get 210 million people with 9000 dead due to firearms and switzerland doesn't have much problems in big cities with gangs and so on....
So we are no shit better than the Americans and yet we still say that we're less violent...... fuck that dude!
we're all morons

there, that'll teach ya'll


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## Rick (Mar 27, 2008)

^We just have a bigger number of fucktards in our country.


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## courtney2018 (Mar 27, 2008)

Celiak said:


> I would like to slap this man.




For sure he's an idiot. But, if an idiot has a gun and uses it you can count on the person doing some idiotic with it. Stupid is as stupid does. Hell, even Forest Gump knows better.


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## Groff (Mar 27, 2008)

Everyone else agree that I think we have a winner for the 2008 darwin awards?


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## Stitch (Mar 27, 2008)

TheMissing said:


> Everyone else agree that I think we have a winner for the 2008 darwin awards?



He didn't remove himself from the gene pool, so no. He removed his wife, who for all we know was a perfectly nice person whose only mistake was marrying this dolt.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Mar 27, 2008)

noodles said:


> I'll agree with you all day long about handguns: they are easy to conceal and are involved in the majority of all shooting crimes. It is the weapon of a murderer, as gun statistics clearly point out (you don't hear about too many people shooting up a 7-11 with a deer rifle). I see no reason why anyone who is not a cop or a soldier should be carrying a handgun.


Also, same argument for automatic machine guns. M16 is not a hunting weapon. But well said. Why would you be carrying a gun, unless it's in case you need to shoot something?

Well said.



noodles said:


> However, I see no problem with someone owning a shotgun or a rifle. Not only should you be allowed to hunt, but you should be allowed to defend your home as well. They aren't the type of weapons that one would carry around on their person, since where are you gonna put it? In this case, my idea of gun control is licensing and mandatory, annual safety classes for all gun owners.


Also extremely well said. Don't give a nutjob a gun, or indeed a license to use one. Psychological testing (stringent) mind you weeds out a large amount of nutjobs. Some people are refused driving licenses on the grounds of poor eyesight, disability etc, so why not the same with guns? People arguing against this are simply the ones that would be excluded as they are more cans short of a sixpack that micael jackson loves kids.



noodles said:


> The problem isn't the guns, but the morons behind the guns. The line of thinking he was using could have just as easily killed his wife with any manner of common power tools. These are the special breed of morons who think that they can knock down an interior wall with a chainsaw, hammer in nails with the battery end of a cordless drill, and cut through steel studs (in the wall) with a blow torch. It is sad when they take someone else out, instead of them, since mother nature is usually pretty good at eliminating the weaker genes.


Darwin Awards. No need to say more.


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## Popsyche (Mar 27, 2008)

Stitch said:


> He didn't remove himself from the gene pool, so no. He removed his wife, who for all we know was a perfectly nice person whose only mistake was marrying this dolt.



Well, she was smart enough to marry this genius, so I wouldn't be so sure! Also, with her not around, he has to try and lure another woman into marrying him, knowing full well that he shot his latest wife to procreate and sully the genepool further.


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## arktan (Mar 27, 2008)

Maybe he WANTED this accident to happen? 

This seems simply too stupid to be true...


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## playstopause (Mar 27, 2008)

courtney2018 said:


> Sure they do. And in the car and on your person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, sorry, but i just strongly disagree with all of this. It's just my humble opinion, but i think that it's this kind of mentality that perpetuates the eternal vicious circle of gun-related crimes your country is in. No guns, no shooting, plain and simple. Your "right" to posses fire arms goes back to a barbarian era wich is long gone. Times changes and the laws (and / or the constitution) needs to adapt.

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Popsyche (Mar 27, 2008)

playstopause said:


> Wow, sorry, but i just strongly disagree with all of this. It's just my humble opinion, but i think that it's this kind of mentality that perpetuates the eternal vicious circle of gun-related crimes your country is in. No guns, no shooting, plain and simple. Your "right" to posses fire arms goes back to a barbarian era wich is long gone. Times changes and the laws (and / or the constitution) needs to adapt.



It comes from a military background, which I share. We are taught to use and respect weapons, and not to be foolish with them like this maladroit was. In general, most of those folks don't have the training to handle those weapons, or a car, or a fork, or any other implement.


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## Groff (Mar 27, 2008)

7 Dying Trees said:


> Also, same argument for automatic machine guns. M16 is not a hunting weapon.



Well, some people collect old guns, or just have them because they like them. I know someone who has an old tommy gun he restored, and has another automatic rifle (can't remember which one). But he has them in his house locked up in a safe.

He has his regular hunting rifles, sure, but he loves to take the tommy gun to the range and give it a go just for fun, and to do some target shooting. Which I feel is perfectly fine.

But give a gun like that to an idiot...


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## Nerina (Mar 27, 2008)

arktan said:


> Maybe he WANTED this accident to happen?
> 
> This seems simply too stupid to be true...



This is a good point.....


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## courtney2018 (Mar 27, 2008)

playstopause said:


> i think that it's this kind of mentality that perpetuates the eternal vicious circle of gun-related crimes your country is in. No guns, no shooting, plain and simple.




You're grouping people that own guns into the group that commits crimes with weapons. It's not black and white like that. Just because someone owns a gun doesn't mean they're more prone to commit violent crimes.

I've had guns around me my entire life and never once have I committed a violent crime, or any crime for that matter. Because of the work that I do if I had even a blemish on my background I would never have been hired. Yes, I own guns, but I'm not on the verge of going postal. It's a matter of the wrong person having guns that's the problem. I got permitted and licensed to buy, own and keep weapons. Most people that commit these violent crimes aren't taking these steps. They're buying them off the street from other criminals and shady dealers. That, you can not stop...even in the UK.





Popsyche said:


> We are taught to use and respect weapons, and not to be foolish with them...


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## Groff (Mar 27, 2008)

arktan said:


> Maybe he WANTED this accident to happen?
> 
> This seems simply too stupid to be true...



I don't know... It's kinda hard to see through a wall to time the shot perfectly 

I thought that at first, but there's no realy way he could have timed it right.

My uncle once accidentally shot the side of his house while he was on the roof waiting for a pesky fox that was eating his chickens to come by.


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## arktan (Mar 27, 2008)

^ you're probably right.... *punches himself for writing before thinking, bad arktan, bad arktan*


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## playstopause (Mar 27, 2008)

courtney2018 said:


> You're grouping people that own guns into the group that commits crimes weapons. It's not black and white like that. Just because someone owns a gun doesn't mean they're more prone to commit violent crimes.
> 
> I've had guns around me my entire life and never once have I committed a violent crime, or any crime for that matter. Because of the work that I do if I had even a blemish on my background I would never have been hired. Yes, I own guns, but I'm not on the verge of going postal. It's a matter of the wrong person having guns that's the problem. I got permitted and licensed to buy, own and keep weapons. Most people that commit these violent crimes aren't taking these steps. They're buying them off the street from other criminals and shady dealers. That, you can not stop...even in the UK.



People that commit crimes with guns are people that owns guns in the first place. Unless they rent one for the occasion, wich i doubt. Of course, it's not because someone owns a gun it means they're more prone to commit violent crimes. My point is : no guns owned by anyone, no shooting. Ever. Use your good old fist and the death rate will drop by 99%.

I get your point but it's the right to even _own _a gun i'm questioning. Wether you "respect" a weapon (how is this even possible?!?) or not. I don't get the "it's _normal_" to own a firearm thing... I mean, unless you live in a house in the woods with the probability of having bears attacking you every now and then... I'd get it. But in cities where people millions of people are living? Violence bring violence : vicious circle.

Anyway, what's the fascination with owning a gun? Could you explain to me because i really don't get this.

People own guns in their houses because they say they have the right to (and i'll say it again, that right goes back to ancient times).
People that want to break into these houses know the people inside have a gun, because "everyone" has one. So now, they need one too, right? Who's going to shoot who first? Vicious circle. 

Another thing i don't get is how people hang on to this right with all of the shootings / horror stories goin' on in the U.S.?
People know firearms are bringing evil and yet, they stick to their guns. Wtf?

Anyway... i don't think this is going anywhere, since you've admitted to grown up in that kind of environment, surrounded by guns, seeing it as a "normal" thing. You're on that side of the fence and have the right to. Even if i reeeally don't get it, i respect that. Just keep in mind I have an "outside" point of view (different country, different laws, different values, way less violent crimes) making my point of view as valuable.


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## Groff (Mar 27, 2008)

playstopause said:


> People that commit crimes with guns are people that owns guns in the first place. Unless they rent one for the occasion, wich i doubt. Of course, it's not because someone owns a gun it means they're more prone to commit violent crimes. My point is : no guns owned by anyone, no shooting. Ever. Use your good old fist and the death rate will drop by 99%.



Black market. Do you think the gangs that tout guns in big citys bougt them legally?



> Anyway, what's the fascination with owning a gun? Could you explain to me because i really don't get this.
> .



I recently applied for my gun permit. Why? Because I like to target shoot, or shoot clay pigeons, and plan on hunting. And as for the people who collect guns, why do people collect guitars, cards, stamps, or anything?

You don't understand why people like guns because you're not one who wants one. Just as I don't understand why people like tomatoes(bleh).


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## playstopause (Mar 27, 2008)

TheMissing said:


> Black market. Do you think the gangs that tout guns in big citys bougt them legally?



They still _own _ a gun, no matter how they got it, legal or not.



> I recently applied for my gun permit. Why? Because I like to target shoot, or shoot clay pigeons, and plan on hunting. And as for the people who collect guns, why do people collect guitars, cards, stamps, or anything?
> 
> You don't understand why people like guns because you're not one who wants one. Just as I don't understand why people like tomatoes(bleh).



Come on, guns can KILL, they're dangerous objects responsible for many bad accidents. They're a social problem. Not tomatoes, stamps or whatever else. That's what i don't get: the innocence of that. Acting like it doesn't exist and it's ok to own a gun "because i like to shoot stuff and animals for fun"... And honestly, I don't think i need to "desire" a gun to not understand what's the attraction to them.


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## arktan (Mar 27, 2008)

^in the stone age everyone had a weapon. even back in the 1880s (almost) everybody was armed....
Those are simply the remains of an old time and they're part of beeing human (because we're a species fascinated by destruction, so it's in our nature. You don't want to tell me that you use your guns for creation?).
We like much more to see some brutal destruction than creation, just look what we've done to our planet.....  

Ask yourself if you really need a gun, martial arts are much better to defend yourself on the street because assholes attack without warning and from behind which gives you no time to draw your weapon in the worst case.
In fact, weapons give you a wrong sense of security and you really should not rely solely on them. They're only "usefull" in movies and in wars or when you can ready them without being hit first because someone saw you pulling it out...

This was just my oppinion and no offense was intended to anybody, just my experiences with that stuff


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## SevenDeadly (Mar 27, 2008)

I own four firearms. A shotgun, an ar15, WASR-10, and a .38 spcl for the girl. But I live in Texas. Owning firearms is not a stupid thing, stupid people owning firearms is stupid. My guns live in a safe for 100% of the year and only come out when I go to my parents land, which is a whopping 65 acres. But let those zombie bastards try to attack, even my girlfriend can hit a watermelon at 50 yards.


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## courtney2018 (Mar 27, 2008)

playstopause said:


> Come on, guns can KILL, they're dangerous objects responsible for many bad accidents.




So are baseball bats, knives, cars, trucks, motorcycles, shovels, rakes, ....do I need to go on?

Do you blame a car or the people that made a car that goes 120mph for fun, loses control, crosses the median and fatally hits 10 cars on the other side? Or do you blame the driver? Would you say that car makers shouldn't make a car that can go over 70mph?, or 50mph?

It's not the inanimate object that's bad. It's the dumbass people that use them that makes bad things happen with it.

I could bash your head in with a set-top DVD player and kill you. Would people blame the DVD player maker for making such a large player, or would people blame _me_ for committing the murder?

I think people need to start holding people accountable for their actions instead of the objects that they use to do those actions. We've got a president in the White House that's not accountable. We've got corrupt cops that aren't accountable and get paid administrative leave when they break the law. We've got corrupt politicians that aren't accountable for their political misdeeds, sex scandals, and money laundering, so they get to retire with full benefits when they get caught red-handed. It's the people that are responsible. IT'S THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. NOTHING ELSE AND NO ONE ELSE! Quit blaming something that can't speak back and blame the people that are responsible...THAT ARE ACCOUNTABLE. ...if that word even exists anymore.


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## Lee (Mar 27, 2008)

courtney2018 said:


> So are baseball bats, knives, cars, trucks, motorcycles, shovels, rakes, ....do I need to go on?




 If you want to commit a criminal act bad enough, not having a gun isn't going to stop you. As long as you have some advantage over your victim, nothing will stop them. You can use almost anything as a weapon and believe me, not having a gun isn't going to stop someone from not finding a suitable replacement very quickly.


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## arktan (Mar 27, 2008)

courtney2018 said:


> So are baseball bats, knives, cars, trucks, motorcycles, shovels, rakes, ....do I need to go on?
> 
> Do you blame a car or the people that made a car that goes 120mph for fun, loses control, crosses the median and fatally hits 10 cars on the other side? Or do you blame the driver? Would you say that car makers shouldn't make a car that can go over 70mph?, or 50mph?
> 
> ...




You are right. No argue with that but you have to admit that cars, knives, trucks, shovels and rubber ducks weren't developed for killing. And you don't wanna tell me that a M16A4 or a G36C or K or the standard version or an AK74 or 47 are designed for sports or self defense against criminals at home (those rifles are pretty accurate up to 500 meters..... well scratch that, i mean those rifles with exception of the AK's )
If you kill someone with the DVD-Player, your action of murder is the thing in question and not the player because it wasn't designed for killing. If you put your cat in your microwave, it's your action and not the microwave which is criminal.... i agree on that one with you but:
People are accountable for creating weapons and the creation of weapons is a crime in the eyes of many victims. Why use the breed of crime and say that it has to be treated the same like a DVD-Player? In that case you should also try to legalize all the drugs because it's just what we do with them that's bad and not their effects....

It is NOT my intention to offend somebody so if something's wrong with the text above, please tell me..

cheers


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## playstopause (Mar 27, 2008)

arktan said:


> No argue with that but you have to admit that cars, knives, trucks, shovels and rubber ducks weren't developed for killing.



That was my point, thank you. Of course you can kill with a shovel or a freakin' apple, but a gun was designed to kill and nothing else. Not to shoot clay pigeons.




courtney2018 said:


> It's not the inanimate object that's bad. It's the dumbass people that use them that makes bad things happen with it.



And again, that's what i've been saying : make the object unavailable and there will be no chances that dumbass people will make bad things happen with it. 

... And by the way, no need to "speak" with capitals.


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## courtney2018 (Mar 27, 2008)

They are "unavailable" to people in the UK if you're a law abiding citizen. If you're a criminal in a back alley somewhere you can probably pick up a gun. With the exception of rifles, guns are banned...not allowed. Even getting a rifle you have to jump thru alot of legal hoops, but yet there are crimes committed everyday in the UK somewhere that involves a gun.

What you want can not be done. There are literally billions of guns on our planet. In order to make them unavailable you'd have to destroy every last gun on the Earth. How could anyone possibly do that?

But lets say you limit the people that can get guns. How do you do that? You use permitting and licensing. My background information and finger prints are in more US Federal offices right now than I can count. I'm permitted and licensed to own, carry and keep firearms. Since I'm not a cop does this make me less deserving or own and carry a gun? Would it be better if only cops could carry guns? Cause I'll tell you....you show me one criminal that's committed a crime with a gun and I'll show you two cops that's done it too.


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## Stitch (Mar 27, 2008)

courtney2018 said:


> They are "unavailable" to people in the UK if you're a law abiding citizen. If you're a criminal in a back alley somewhere you can probably pick up a gun.



I think you overestimate the black market in the UK. Getting a gun would be quite a challenge. I know because I know people who know people. And I've asked before, out of curiosity.




courtney2018 said:


> With the exception of rifles, guns are banned...not allowed. Even getting a rifle you have to jump thru alot of legal hoops, but yet there are crimes committed everyday in the UK somewhere that involves a gun.



I'm a)interested to see your source for that, or is it just presumption? and b)assuming for a second its true the ratio of crimes with a gun per person compared to the USA will be STAGGERING, I guarantee you.

Make guns easy to get in the UK and I PROMISE that our crime rates would go through the roof.



courtney2018 said:


> What you want can not be done. There are literally billions of guns on our planet. In order to make them unavailable you'd have to destroy every last gun on the Earth. How could anyone possibly do that?



You're right. And AIDS is a pandemic. Hundreds of people have it, and we haven't found a cure. Instead of destroying them or helping them, lets just throw up our hands and go "hey, whatever" and leave it on its own. We can't do anything about it anyway.



courtney2018 said:


> But lets say you limit the people that can get guns.



But _WHY?!_



courtney2018 said:


> Would it be better if only cops could carry guns?



Most coppers on the UK don't carry firearms - indeed, you really only see them on special deployment around things like the Queen's parades and in the subways after 7/7.


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## METAL_ZONE (Mar 27, 2008)

lordofthesewers said:


> it happens only in Kansas City



I live in Kansas City.


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## playstopause (Mar 27, 2008)

courtney2018 said:


> What you want can not be done.



Well of course, it will never happen. Especially with that "i love my guns and my life is better with them" attitude.


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## courtney2018 (Mar 27, 2008)

Stitch said:


> But _WHY?!_





playstopause said:


> Well of course, it will never happen. Especially with that "i love my guns and my life is better with them" attitude.




I've got the perfect solution for the both of you. Take all that enthusiasm and do something about it. Go on a world wide mission and rid our planet of all the guns. The world will be a better place without them.


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## Stitch (Mar 27, 2008)

Apathy.


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## telecaster90 (Mar 27, 2008)

ohio_eric said:


> He didn't live alone. He lived with his wife until he shot her.


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## bostjan (Mar 27, 2008)

Guns don't kill people...







Bullets kill people!


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## courtney2018 (Mar 27, 2008)

Stitch said:


> Apathy.




It's not apathy. No offense to either of you, but you're both too young to completely understand. You can spin the information you hear and read any way you want, but the fact remains there's absolutely nothing you can do about ridding the world of guns. The very mention of it is ridiculous.

And you can't say for a fact that the world would be a better place without guns. This Earth, since caveman days, has always had weapons of some sort, which will never change. So how do you suppose it would be better? If there were no guns there would be something else lethal in it's place that everyone would be all up tight about. This Earth, since caveman days, has always had weapons of some sort, which will never change. If people aren't getting shot, they'll be getting something else that's lethal.


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## Cancer (Mar 27, 2008)

Normally, I would laugh at the absolute stupidity of this kind of thing, but after reading the story, I really think it was an accident. Granted, firing a gun in your house isn't smart but still.....


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## Popsyche (Mar 27, 2008)

Cancer said:


> Normally, I would laugh at the absolute stupidity of this kind of thing, but after reading the story, I really think it was an accident. Granted, firing a gun in your house isn't smart but still.....



My brother in a moment of shear stupidity was sitting on his bed, loading his 45 when it went off, perforating a perfectly good blanket, mattress, boxspring, carpet, hardwood floor, ceiling, and lodged that bullet in the baseboard heater about 4 feet from where someone was snoozing on the couch.


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## JBroll (Mar 27, 2008)

When the person breaking into my home or trying to steal my car can be dissuaded with "Hey, you'd better watch out, or I'll... give you a nasty scratch with my car keys!", I'll consider the opinion that 'guns don't belong in the home'... you know what doesn't belong in my home? People who want to murder me or take my stuff. Millions of crimes a year are stopped just by the presence of a gun - not even necessarily the use - so before you bitch about gun deaths consider the people whose lives were saved thanks to guns.

And before anyone suggests this... call the cops and call Domino's. See who comes first. At least you won't die hungry.

Jeff


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## playstopause (Mar 27, 2008)

courtney2018 said:


> It's not apathy. No offense to either of you, but you're both too young to completely understand.



Is this a fucking joke? That's quite arrogant.



> You can spin the information you hear and read any way you want, but the fact remains there's absolutely nothing you can do about ridding the world of guns.



True. Thanks to good old-fashioned values like yours.



> And you can't say for a fact that the world would be a better place without guns. This Earth, since caveman days, has always had weapons of some sort, which will never change. So how do you suppose it would be better? If there were no guns there would be something else lethal in it's place that everyone would be all up tight about. This Earth, since caveman days, has always had weapons of some sort, which will never change.



Wow, history lesson. Again, thanks to you. It's people with an attitude like yours that keeps us at caveman level. Keep goin', stick to your guns, they'll protect you, cowboy style.  

Anyway, on that level, everything is doing quite fine in the U.S., riiight?


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## noodles (Mar 27, 2008)

arktan said:


> Just to say something about "American Fucktards"
> 
> Here in Switzerland every man has an assault rifle at home (yes, everyone who was in the army and everyone must join the army if not incapacitated)...
> 
> ...



Are drugs illegal in Switzerland? If not, what kind of penalties do they carry? How much of a problem do you have with gang crime.

This is where gun crime comes from: gang crime. As your statistics show, guns do not immediately lead to crime. If I remember correctly, military service is mandatory in your country. As Pops said, those of us who have been in the military learn respect for guns, before we ever fire them. I bet the numbers for gun crimes line up pretty well with gang crime.

Outlawing guns will do nothing to stop gun crime. Guns are a tool, an not the problem, as the statistics of your country point out.


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## Lucky Seven (Mar 28, 2008)

noodles said:


> Are drugs illegal in Switzerland? If not, what kind of penalties do they carry? How much of a problem do you have with gang crime.
> 
> This is where gun crime comes from: gang crime. As your statistics show, guns do not immediately lead to crime. If I remember correctly, military service is mandatory in your country. As Pops said, those of us who have been in the military learn respect for guns, before we ever fire them. I bet the numbers for gun crimes line up pretty well with gang crime.
> 
> Outlawing guns will do nothing to stop gun crime. Guns are a tool, an not the problem, as the statistics of your country point out.



Well said.


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## ohio_eric (Mar 28, 2008)

Guns do not cause violence. There will always be people who are violent. They will find tools to kill and mame. It's just how this species seems to operate sometimes. 

The real problem with guns is the scope of their destructive power. The shootings at Virginia Tech are a prime example. There is no way that you can kill over 30 people on a campus that size with a bat or knife. It's just not possible. A gun makes it easy. It makes it too damn easy. With a gun, every psycho and pissed off motherfucker can create a blood bath. 

So we should disarm right? I wish it were that easy. But we are armed to our teeth and people love their guns. So no way in Hell are people giving up their guns. So what do we do? Here's my advice. 

One is to keep the assault weapons ban or did they let theat expire. If they did we neeed it back.. No one needs these weapons. They're for assault it says so right in the name you don't need them.

Also clip sizes need to limited. No one needs 15 round clips. Ever. If you can't tag Bambi or that burglar in the first 4 rounds it just ain't gonna happen. 

Things like .50 caliber shells, hollow point rounds and other excessively destructive ordinance ought be kept very far away from people as well. It serves no practical purpose so bye bye. 

Even with gun laws in place people will still do stupid shit. The real way to reduce violent crime is to better society. Like Bill Hicks used to say there are two choices in life, love and fear. Fear wants you to buy guns and put big locks on your doors and look for enemies. Love wants to feed, educate and give shelter to the world. It's your choice.


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## noodles (Mar 28, 2008)

ohio_eric said:


> Guns do not cause violence. There will always be people who are violent. They will find tools to kill and mame. It's just how this species seems to operate sometimes.



Take a look at other primates: chimps, baboons, and orangutans are all incredibly violent creatures. It is the nature of most primates.

An interesting exception are bonobos. They are similar to chimps physically, but their society is completely different. They are matralinial, violent males are ganged up on by all the females of the tribe and defused with sex. They use sex for greeting, peer bonding, and negotiating. When hippies said, "make love, not war," they had no idea how right they were in a very literal, scientifically observable sense.


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## Zepp88 (Mar 28, 2008)

I want to be a Bonobo.


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## playstopause (Mar 28, 2008)

ohio_eric said:


> The real problem with guns is the scope of their destructive power. The shootings at Virginia Tech are a prime example. There is no way that you can kill over 30 people on a campus that size with a bat or knife. It's just not possible. A gun makes it easy. It makes it too damn easy. With a gun, every psycho and pissed off motherfucker can create a blood bath.
> 
> ...
> 
> Fear wants you to buy guns and put big locks on your doors and look for enemies. Love wants to feed, educate and give shelter to the world. It's your choice.



Very well said, as usual. +1



noodles said:


> Take a look at other primates: chimps, baboons, and orangutans are all incredibly violent creatures. It is the nature of most primates.
> 
> An interesting exception are bonobos. They are similar to chimps physically, but their society is completely different. They are matralinial, violent males are ganged up on by all the females of the tribe and defused with sex. They use sex for greeting, peer bonding, and negotiating. When hippies said, "make love, not war," they had no idea how right they were in a very literal, scientifically observable sense.



Man... these things you come up with! Always interesting reads.


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## noodles (Mar 28, 2008)

Zepp88 said:


> I want to be a Bonobo.



Bonobo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They are pretty much the coolest animals ever. Of course, we are completely destroying their habitat.


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## JBroll (Mar 28, 2008)

Two things.

Once more... what part of 'rendering law-abiding citizens defenseless' still seems like a good idea?

Also... guns were banned at VA Tech and Northern Illinois... isn't a ban on something about as controlling as one can get?

Jeff


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## Zepp88 (Mar 28, 2008)

noodles said:


> Bonobo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> They are pretty much the coolest animals ever. Of course, we are completely destroying their habitat.



People still see animals as things


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## Zepp88 (Mar 28, 2008)

JBroll said:


> Two things.
> 
> Once more... what part of 'rendering law-abiding citizens defenseless' still seems like a good idea?
> 
> ...



 Guns being banned on campus doesn't make them harder to get a hold of.


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## JBroll (Mar 28, 2008)

... and this changes the rules for an entire fucking country how?

Jeff


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## Zepp88 (Mar 28, 2008)

JBroll said:


> ... and this changes the rules for an entire fucking country how?
> 
> Jeff



I'm unclear on what you mean. Handguns aren't outlawed in the US, so a campus ban on guns really doesn't stop guns from getting on campus, especially given the open nature of many campuses. That was the point I was making.


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## JBroll (Mar 28, 2008)

Keep in mind that country below us that has about as much luck enforcing its laws and preventing crime as Jacques Clouseau would if he were real, the organized crime revolving around our lovely war on drugs, people who actually know how to machine guns, and the fact that just about any kid with an Internet connection can pull a zip gun together and you have a recipe for one failed gun ban.

Jeff


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## Zepp88 (Mar 28, 2008)

JBroll said:


> Keep in mind that country below us that has about as much luck enforcing its laws and preventing crime as Jacques Clouseau would if he were real, the organized crime revolving around our lovely war on drugs, people who actually know how to machine guns, and the fact that just about any kid with an Internet connection can pull a zip gun together and you have a recipe for one failed gun ban.
> 
> Jeff



You have a good point here....and it sickens me that it's true.


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## noodles (Mar 28, 2008)

^ 

While I still don't see a reason for people to carry handguns (much like they shouldn't carry assault rifles), I don't think repealing the fourth amendment is the answer. Guns are not the problem, criminals are. While these types of stories get a lot of press, gun violence is heavily weighted away from the people who obtain guns through legal means, with the purpose of recreation and/or home defense.

Considering how effective we are at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, any cops who come knocking, asking me to surrender my shotgun, are going to get a door closed in their faces.


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## Zepp88 (Mar 28, 2008)

This is starting to parallel with the drug legalization thread, drugs being the main source of funding, and fighting amongst gangs...cause of most gun violence, etc...


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## JBroll (Mar 28, 2008)

playstopause said:


> Is this a fucking joke? That's quite arrogant.
> 
> ...
> 
> Wow, history lesson. Again, thanks to you. It's people with an attitude like yours that keeps us at caveman level. Keep goin', stick to your guns, they'll protect you, cowboy style.



Consistency 101:

It's totally cool to call someone arrogant and in the same breath make a reference to cavemen because you're so much more enlightened than they are.

Jeff


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## All_¥our_Bass (Mar 28, 2008)

bostjan said:


> Guns don't kill people...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

<EDDIE_IZZARD>
No it's just that sound that they make.
</EDDIE_IZZARD>


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## arktan (Mar 28, 2008)

noodles said:


> Are drugs illegal in Switzerland? If not, what kind of penalties do they carry? How much of a problem do you have with gang crime.
> 
> This is where gun crime comes from: gang crime. As your statistics show, guns do not immediately lead to crime. If I remember correctly, military service is mandatory in your country. As Pops said, those of us who have been in the military learn respect for guns, before we ever fire them. I bet the numbers for gun crimes line up pretty well with gang crime.
> 
> Outlawing guns will do nothing to stop gun crime. Guns are a tool, an not the problem, as the statistics of your country point out.



The problem here is that noone controls the dudes who have a weapon.
You go to the military, they check you phisically, you run a few circles and throw some iron-balls on a field. Then you get a psychological check à la "Have you ever had problems with obeying orders?" "Of course not. I've never been in the military..." or "Are you Neo-Nazi?" "Look at my hair, dude...." or "Do you have fantasies involving violence?" "Yes, every fuckin' second of my life and when i'm not awake i dream about it..."
and those dudes are not even psychologists. They're just a few Sarge's who have been commandeered to pick out the trash and guess what: almost everybody who passed the physicals passes also the psychicals unless he's totally retarded..... and all those guys get an assault rifle 
And those 300 dead in Switzerland due to firearms.... the funny thing is that almost all of them are commited by military weapons. Last Fall a guy finished his service and 1 hour afterwards he shot a 16 year old girl who was waiting for a bus. This happened 2 blocks away from where i lived and i even heard the shot. Nobody knows why.
Look, i'm not telling that guns are the root of all evil, that title belongs to you and me and the guy next door, but right now, where we even can't make a campfire in the open without being called terrorists and where mass-paranoia is fueled by the media we really should not give in to our lesser instincts. Do you wanna live on knees?
When i read some statements here i just don't want the people who wrote them to carry a gun because there is potential. All you need is a misunderstanding like with the kid who died because of the tazer. Now imagine a cowboy instead of the cops..... the shop would have been colored in a new tone of red.

To answer your question: We don't have much drug crimes. Okay Basel, Bern, Geneva, Lausanne, St. Gallen and Zürich are "big" cities and it's clear that you have some drug activity there but it's never related to gun crime here in switzerland (with a few exceptions of course). Criminals use mostly knives here and not guns. Those who fuck things up are soldiers who "passed" the psychological tests and the politicians who still hold on to that 800 year old tradition of armed defense (every man has to be armed, later it was changed to every man who served has to be armed). Our society isn't more about war how it was 200 years ago and those old remains do not fit anymore in our modern ah so great economical prosperity where everything is resource and nothing sacred {note: don't we have some puking smilies?}.
And the most funny thing is that you will read "dealer kills dealer, violence problem in Zürich" in every newspaper while stuff like "Ex-sniper kills 5 people from a rooftop" will pass unnoticed unless it happened in your region and then it will flow in some statistics at the end of the year...

By the way: I'm talking about Assault rifles and handguns here and the self given right and judgement to posess firearms..... Everybody who's eager to hold a gun in his hands has probably never seen what it can do to bodies and families and these persons probably also never experienced a blood rush (which is part of our defensive instincts). You guys simply watched too much movies. How many of you guys ever had to use a weapon in self defense?

No offense intended guys. if you are offended, please tell me what it was


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## courtney2018 (Mar 28, 2008)

playstopause said:


> Is this a fucking joke? That's quite arrogant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And so this takes us back once again to what I said in an earlier post, "do something about it!" You can't. If you think you can, the please prove me wrong!


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## playstopause (Mar 28, 2008)

JBroll said:


> Consistency 101:
> 
> It's totally cool to call someone arrogant and in the same breath make a reference to cavemen because you're so much more enlightened than they are.
> 
> Jeff





Reading 101 : If you'd read correctly, it was Courtney that spoke about cavemen. I was just refering to her post. Ok? Thanks.



courtney2018 said:


> And so this takes us back once again to what I said in an earlier post, "do something about it!" You can't. If you think you can, the please prove me wrong!



I believe that first step in changing things is a change of attitude, a change on how we see things.


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## Naren (Mar 28, 2008)

playstopause said:


> I believe that first step in changing things is a change of attitude, a change on how we see things.



You're right. But you're ignoring that fact that what Courtney said is true. 

I'm not a violent person nor do I have a "hey, everyone needs a weapon" mentality, but I think that was Courtney simply stated a sad truth about the world. 

And the United States is not the only country in the world where people have guns. You may call her ideas "old-fashioned," but your ideas are just as "old-fashioned" as hers.

EDIT: Who put the "she had it commin" tag?  And why? I don't see what she did to deserve to die.


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## Azyiu (Mar 28, 2008)

KillForGod said:


> guns just dont belong in a home.period.



But countries that don't have guns ain't American!


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## Groff (Mar 28, 2008)

Cancer said:


> Normally, I would laugh at the absolute stupidity of this kind of thing, but after reading the story, I really think it was an accident. Granted, firing a gun in your house isn't smart but still.....





This is purely an accident, not a result of 'bad gun control', and nothing more.

To compare:

A few month ago my cousin hit a patch of ice while driving his car and struck an old lady on the side of the road, killing her. That was an accident, not a result of 'bad drivers education'.

Granted these are two completely different things, but my point is the same. He was an idiot for firing his gun at his house and not in a controlled environment (range etc...) but it was still an accident. Just as my cousin, who is a new driver, should have been more cautious, perhaps it could have been avoided (Though several witnesses said he was not speeding by any means)



Azyiu said:


> But countries that don't have guns ain't American!



Does that make your avatar american?


----------



## Groff (Mar 28, 2008)

arktan said:


> By the way: I'm talking about Assault rifles and handguns here and the self given right and judgement to posess firearms..... Everybody who's eager to hold a gun in his hands has probably never seen what it can do to bodies and families and these persons probably also never experienced a blood rush (which is part of our defensive instincts). You guys simply watched too much movies. How many of you guys ever had to use a weapon in self defense?
> 
> No offense intended guys. if you are offended, please tell me what it was



No offense taken.

But.

I know full well what a gun can do to a person, as well as animals. And what do you mean by "What they can do to families"? My dad has two shotguns, a .22, and a .45 revolver. They've ALWAYS been in my house (when my parents were together) and my 'almost' step dad who lives with us now has more rifles and shotguns than I can count. Our family is doing just fine thank you.

You're assuming that people who posess guns are either keeping them on their person at all times for self defense purposes. This is just simply not true. I plan on owning a .22 (for taget shooting) and a Shotgun (for hunting). And eventually want some type of handgun for range use. Will I ever carry these on me? Not a chance. They will be locked up in a 4" steel safe unless I plan to transport them in a locked case in the back of my car to whereever i'm hunting/shooting.

So tell me, does me wanting a gun make me evil or something? I know full well the consequences of using a gun for anything but the purposes I stated above, and will never use them otherwise.

Not all gun owners are cowboys and criminals.


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## courtney2018 (Mar 28, 2008)

playstopause said:


> I believe that first step in changing things is a change of attitude, a change on how we see things.




My viewpoint on this is based entirely on reality. What you want is not only completely impossible and unrealistic. 

An old addage my grandmother would sometimes say to me, "You can want in one hand and shit in the other see which one fills up faster." I'm not trying to be rude to you. It's just a saying is all. It's nice to want to rid the earth of all weapons, stand around the campfire and sing Kumbiya, but the reality of this is it will never happen.

You want to change the world? By all means, go for it! And when you accomplish that task come back to me and tell me "I told you so!".


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## courtney2018 (Mar 28, 2008)

TheMissing said:


> Not all gun owners are cowboys and criminals.




I don't know.  Cowboys had guns. You've got a gun. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck....must be a duck. You must be a cowboy. 

Yippee-Ki-Yea Mutha-Fucka!


----------



## playstopause (Mar 28, 2008)

Naren said:


> ... but I think that was Courtney simply stated a sad truth about the world.



True, i know. And we ain't doing much about it, like many other things. We're just so self-destructive. I guess i'm just rebelling against it.



courtney2018 said:


> My viewpoint on this is based entirely on reality. What you want is not only completely impossible and unrealistic.
> 
> An old addage my grandmother would sometimes say to me, "You can want in one hand and shit in the other see which one fills up faster." I'm not trying to be rude to you. It's just a saying is all. It's nice to want to rid the earth of all weapons, stand around the campfire and sing Kumbiya, but the reality of this is it will never happen.
> 
> You want to change the world? By all means, go for it! And when you accomplish that task come back to me and tell me "I told you so!".



I'm well aware what i'm saying is an utopia. Thing is, i believe that first step in failing is saying "we can't change things" and "this will never happen". But that's just me. 

Again, different country, different culture, different values.


----------



## arktan (Mar 28, 2008)

TheMissing said:


> No offense taken.
> 
> But.
> 
> ...




I never said that all gun-owners were cowboys or/and criminals...
but nonetheless: on that point i completely agree with you.
Wanting a gun doesn't make you necessarilly evil but you won't tell me that you didn't have this power-surge when you held your first in your hands...
And you probably agree with me when i say taht not everybody should hold a weapon in her/his hands. You are using your guns for sports and for hunting...
Well i'm in a sword-fighting club. That's all sports. For the hunting side of the whole thing: A deer or a rabbit who gets shot in the wild dies much better than a cow in a slaughterhouse...... i know it sounds brutal but on this point i don't accept ANY criticism from someone who eats meat. Only vegetarians may call me an asshole on that one.
I am talking about using guns in order of self-defense on the street or against humans. Yes, against humans. That's where most self-righteous dudettes/dudes say: "He broke into my house so i simply had the right to shoot him, ugly motherfucker." and in most of those cases the robbers weren't even armed but still dead....... so much for respecting human life: "My property against your life....hmmm.... i guess it was a bad day for you, motherfucker. I'm gonna keep it short, prepare to receive a magazine in your head! mwahahahaha"
If the robbers are armed then it is a different story but if you posess a weapon and can't distinguish then you shouldn't be able to obtain it.
I'm not demonizing cops, sportshooters, hunters and so on....
And still there were no replies:How many of you had to use a gun in self defense?

Like before: no offense intended


----------



## Mattmc74 (Mar 28, 2008)

courtney2018 said:


> Sure they do. And in the car and on your person.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## JBroll (Mar 28, 2008)

playstopause said:


> Reading 101 : If you'd read correctly, it was Courtney that spoke about cavemen. I was just refering to her post. Ok? Thanks.



Did I miss the part where she compared you to one, or did you miss what I was actually saying?

Jeff


----------



## Groff (Mar 28, 2008)

arktan said:


> I never said that all gun-owners were cowboys or/and criminals...



Never said you did, I was just making my own silly point, wasn't calling you our or anything 



> but nonetheless: on that point i completely agree with you.
> Wanting a gun doesn't make you necessarilly evil but you won't tell me that you didn't have this power-surge when you held your first in your hands...



'Powersurge'? Meaning like I felt powerful? Or that It was kinda like "Hey this is kinda neat." Because the first time I fired a gun (BB gun) I hit a soda can off in the back yard, and was like "Yay!" As if I had just won a game or something, but I didn't feel 'powerful.' And my dad gave me a lecture about the seriousness of guns (even the BB gun!) and made sure I understood that I was to shoot NOTHING else but the cans, and to never point it at someone. So yeah, I got a good talk in responsibility that I carry with me to this day. And the first time I held a real gun (Shotgun) It did put a smile on my face, and when I took my first shot at a clay pigeon I was first shocked by the kick, then felt happy.

BUT!!

That's not because I was holding a gun. It was the same feeling I get when I first held a guitar, or drove my first car. It's just something that I like to do 



> And you probably agree with me when i say taht not everybody should hold a weapon in her/his hands. You are using your guns for sports and for hunting...
> Well i'm in a sword-fighting club. That's all sports.



The only swords I have are those Navy Seal ones my uncle left for me when he died. I don't see any practical use for swords(except maybe opening boxes in an epic picstory), but don't see harm in having them, the same as guns. Hell, I have a dagger on my wall, because it looks badass.



> For the hunting side of the whole thing: A deer or a rabbit who gets shot in the wild dies much better than a cow in a slaughterhouse...... i know it sounds brutal but on this point i don't accept ANY criticism from someone who eats meat. Only vegetarians may call me an asshole on that one.







> I am talking about using guns in order of self-defense on the street or against humans. Yes, against humans. That's where most self-righteous dudettes/dudes say: "He broke into my house so i simply had the right to shoot him, ugly motherfucker." and in most of those cases the robbers weren't even armed but still dead....... so much for respecting human life: "My property against your life....hmmm.... i guess it was a bad day for you, motherfucker. I'm gonna keep it short, prepare to receive a magazine in your head! mwahahahaha"
> If the robbers are armed then it is a different story but if you posess a weapon and can't distinguish then you shouldn't be able to obtain it.
> I'm not demonizing cops, sportshooters, hunters and so on....
> And still there were no replies:How many of you had to use a gun in self defense?



I've never had to shoot in self defense (not even from say... A bear ) But I would hope to never be in a situation. Just to give my thoughts on a hypothetical situation... If I was out hunting with someone, and they deliberately took a shot at me, I would do all I could to dis-arm him before I resorted to something like popping him in the leg. I would never shoot to kill. I don't even know if i'm capable of killing a deer for when I plan to go hunting. Time will tell on that one. I'm a softee, what can I say?



> Like before: no offense intended



And none taken.



courtney2018 said:


> I don't know.  Cowboys had guns. You've got a gun. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck....must be a duck. You must be a cowboy.
> 
> Yippee-Ki-Yea Mutha-Fucka!



  

+1 rep for that!


----------



## playstopause (Mar 28, 2008)

JBroll said:


> Did I miss the part where she compared you to one, or did you miss what I was actually saying?
> 
> Jeff



You missed the part where i said that it's attitudes like that that keeps us at cavemen level. Did not say she was a cavemen. You're her lawyer or what? She answered my posts very well and all by herself.


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## Mattmc74 (Mar 28, 2008)

arktan said:


> I never said that all gun-owners were cowboys or/and criminals...
> but nonetheless: on that point i completely agree with you.
> Wanting a gun doesn't make you necessarilly evil but you won't tell me that you didn't have this power-surge when you held your first in your hands...
> And you probably agree with me when i say taht not everybody should hold a weapon in her/his hands. You are using your guns for sports and for hunting...
> ...



I had to use a gun in self defense one time. TRUE STORY!

I heard some noise coming from my living room when I was just getting ready to go to bed. I peaked out my door and saw someone trying to open a window. I grabbed my shotgun and went out into the living room while my wife called 911. When I got back out to the living room he was just getting in the window. I racked my gun (pump shot gun) the noise scared him and he said don't shoot me. I told him I called the cops and said not to move.
The police were there in 3 minutes flat. After he was arrested the police found a stolen- loaded handgun in his pocket. No shots were ever fired and no one was ever hurt.
When I was at his trail, I found out that the gun the police found on him was stolen from a cops house down in Detroit. And he was wanted for questioning about a murder in Detroit as well. 
A year or so later he was convicted and got life in prison for that murder down in detroit. I'm glad I had my gun that day! Who knows what could have happened.


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## ibznorange (Mar 28, 2008)

I have guns in my house, including a shotgun and a pistol for home defense. 
Im smart with them though.
Theyre kept where i can get to them within a few seconds of waking up, on my night table. Theyre kept unloaded, but the pistol has a loaded clip right next to it, and the shotty is unbolted. 
The kids around know about them, and not to touch them. Maybe i have smart kids in my family that i feel i can trust them (or maybe its the fact that my 10 year old nephew is a crackshot with a 9mm mp5), But i think if youre going to have guns around, and kids around, the kids should know. Any 9 year old with half a brain that shoots a 12 gauge is going to know not to mess with that except in a shooting situation. Education is the answer, not direct control.

That said, the moment the kids come around, the guns are put way away, locked in a drawer, unloaded, equipped with action locks. The moment i leave the house, the guns are locked away, unloaded. I have guns for self control, and theyre only around when thats applicable.

I have guns for hunting too. Locked away, unbolted, with action locks on, and they dont come out unless im using them or cleaning them. 

My family has had guns in the house for generations. Has there ever been a time where its been regretted? No. has it ever been a good thing? a few times. flashing hers stopped my grandma from getting robbed by gypsies on the ranch in montana. A 9mm round through the thigh stopped the guys coming in my brothers window. 

I will stick with my opinion that Gun control wont fix shit. I can get a gun illegally pretty damn easy, its not hard. making it illegal might cut down on the numbers of people with guns, but it wont stop it. Stupid people who want to be retarded with guns will get guns, and be retarded with them, you cant control that with laws. Education, like with many things in life, is the answer


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## Nerina (Mar 28, 2008)

Look,
Its simple, don't own a gun, in your house or not, unless you have the intelligence to know how and when to use it. /Discussion, no?


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## ibznorange (Mar 28, 2008)

Nerina said:


> Look,
> Its simple, don't own a gun, in your house or not, unless you have the intelligence to know how and when to use it. /Discussion, no?



That leaves about 277 people on the face of the earth 

but in all seriousness, controllign that becomes the problem. enter fascism. who makes the decisions about who gets to own a gun. you can say the same thing for who should have kids, who should drive, etc. who decides?

benevolent dictatorship isnt known to work very well


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## Nerina (Mar 28, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> That leaves about 277 people on the face of the earth
> 
> but in all seriousness, controllign that becomes the problem. enter fascism. who makes the decisions about who gets to own a gun. you can say the same thing for who should have kids, who should drive, etc. who decides?
> 
> benevolent dictatorship isnt known to work very well



Ok, to obtain a permit to have a gun, take a test. Preferebly an IQ test, and a gun use test. Fail, either of them, no gun.  Mind you, that would probably leave about 2 people left on the surface of the earth....
and there is the looming question as to who ultimately decides anyway. 

Oh I dont know, we could try what Chris Rock said and make bullets like 5 thousand dollars each.....


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## ibznorange (Mar 28, 2008)

Nerina said:


> Ok, to obtain a permit to have a gun, take a test. Preferebly an IQ test, and a gun use test. Fail, either of them, no gun.  Mind you, that would probably leave about 2 people left on the surface of the earth....



See, theres an issue. Wanna know the first thing hitler did, before he went about locating jews or anything?
found out who owned the guns and where they lived

Guns are a wierd thing,b ecause theyre a necessary defense in the case of an overbearing government. i doubt were going to have an issue where revolution is necessary. i REEALLLY doubt it. but wierd shit happens, and frankly, i dont think its a good thing for the government to know exactly who has the guns and where they are. 

Im against gun registration, always will be. Dont register my guns, never will


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## Nerina (Mar 28, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> See, theres an issue. Wanna know the first thing hitler did, before he went about locating jews or anything?
> found out who owned the guns and where they lived
> 
> Guns are a wierd thing,b ecause theyre a necessary defense in the case of an overbearing government. i doubt were going to have an issue where revolution is necessary. i REEALLLY doubt it. but wierd shit happens, and frankly, i dont think its a good thing for the government to know exactly who has the guns and where they are.
> ...



I hear ya


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## ibznorange (Mar 28, 2008)

That said, i think most people shouldnt be allowed to have guns


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## Nerina (Mar 28, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> That said, i think most people shouldnt be allowed to have guns



 yup. 
We should go back to swords, I can respect a good old fashioned sword fight, or bare handed combat, guns are too much like cheating to me, just pull the tripper and BAM, no, I think if you want someone dead you should have to work for it, get down and dirty punching their face in, you know?


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## ibznorange (Mar 28, 2008)

Agreed 100%


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## Groff (Mar 28, 2008)

Nerina said:


> Look,
> Its simple, don't own a gun, in your house or not, unless you have the intelligence to know how and when to use it. /Discussion, no?



BAM!


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## arktan (Mar 28, 2008)

Nerina, http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/members/ibznorange.htmlibznorange

I learned something today (i really mean it positive). Thanks for opening my eyes on some points. And i also think that a honorable swordfight (stab the enemy from the back ) is much better than a gunfight but hey, we're born in the wrong time for that (unless you're a sick Jedi or Lord Dark Helmet)

keep rocking


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## ibznorange (Mar 28, 2008)

Arktan, thank you for posting that. Posts like yours (the part about learning stuff ) are exactly what keep me from losing all hope in people and just giving up


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## Mattmc74 (Mar 28, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> Arktan, thank you for posting that. Posts like yours (the part about learning stuff ) are exactly what keep me from losing all hope in people and just giving up


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## Aberak (Mar 28, 2008)

um......... This kind of stuff is the reason I think people should have to take an IQ test to continue to breath. 

Ok I was raised around guns( I live in Texas what can I say) and the first thing that I learned was DON'T POINT A GUN AT ANYONE, don't even point it at a place where people could be. This guy is a idiot they should fry him.


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## JBroll (Mar 28, 2008)

playstopause said:


> You missed the part where i said that it's attitudes like that that keeps us at cavemen level. Did not say she was a cavemen. You're her lawyer or what? She answered my posts very well and all by herself.



No, I just do not like having my viewpoints compared to those of cavemen. I'm pretty far from a caveman, last I checked, and painting your opponents in that kind of light doesn't help the discussion at all.

Jeff


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## Nerina (Mar 28, 2008)

ibznorange said:


> Arktan, thank you for posting that. Posts like yours (the part about learning stuff ) are exactly what keep me from losing all hope in people and just giving up


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## playstopause (Mar 28, 2008)

JBroll said:


> No, I just do not like having my viewpoints compared to those of cavemen. I'm pretty far from a caveman, last I checked, and painting your opponents in that kind of light doesn't help the discussion at all.
> 
> Jeff





Man, there's no need for you to take this personally, i said "keeps US". /drama.


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## JBroll (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm not taking it personally, no worries there. I do, however, live in Texas, defend gun rights, object to government control of just about anything, and generally stand on the opposite side of the board from most 'enlightened intellectual liberal geniuses' and the caveman thing just gets *old*...

Jeff


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## courtney2018 (Mar 28, 2008)

JBroll said:


> I'm not taking it personally, no worries there. I do, however, live in Texas, defend gun rights, object to government control of just about anything, and generally stand on the opposite side of the board from most 'enlightened intellectual liberal geniuses' and the caveman thing just gets *old*...
> 
> Jeff




Hell-yea! They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold dead hands! *pow, bang, bang, pow, rat-a-tat-tat, pow, bang*



Can't we all just shoot something and get along?


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## 777timesgod (Mar 29, 2008)

When you give a gun to a moron and he kills someone you blame the moron not the gun. If we all had more brains we wouldn't need guns...


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## Clydefrog (Mar 29, 2008)

777timesgod said:


> When you give a gun to a moron and he kills someone you blame the moron not the gun. If we all had more brains we wouldn't need guns...



And then the aliens would invade and we wouldn't stand a chance.


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## playstopause (Mar 29, 2008)

JBroll said:


> I'm not taking it personally, no worries there. I do, however, live in Texas, defend gun rights, object to government control of just about anything, and generally stand on the opposite side of the board from most 'enlightened intellectual liberal geniuses' and the caveman thing just gets *old*...
> 
> Jeff



That's fine by me. You think the "cavemen" comparaison is getting old, I think the same about the "i'll stick to my guns" attitude. It's all good : to each his own.


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