# Need some help dialing a good tone on 7 string



## Edika (Jan 12, 2017)

Hi guys I need a bit of help with dialing a good tone on my 7 string. It seems that in general I can't get good sounds with anything below D, as I've tried a couple of guitars on Drop C and wasn't that pleased. I know that there are a lot of factors that come into play, from technique, pickups, amp, strings, pick, the guitar itself and so on so I'll let you know what I'm using and what's my problem so far.

I'm using a Jackson SLAT3-7, which has alder body wings and is a maple neckthrough with a Floyd Rose bridge. It has the SD Dino Cazares Retribution pickups and is strung up with a 10-46 Rotosound set with a 60 Rotosound on the low B and in B flat tuning. It has five springs in the trem cavity. I'm mainly running the guitar through a Maxon OD808 to a Peavey 5150II (that has been recently retubed) and going to an ENGL 2x12 Celestion V30 loaded cab.

The issue with the sound is if I have that the low B just doesn't sound good. The rest of the strings sound better. I've tried adjusting the pickup placement and when it is too close to the strings it got really undefined and when it's too far away too weak and boomy. In general I'm hearing too much frequency separation trending towards the higher frequencies. When I get the low B more beefy and the rest of the strings sound ok, it's way too boomy but when the low B is defined it gets an annoying jangly sound and the rest of the strings get too screechy. When removing bass and resonance it gets too thin but when adding it gets too boomy. I've increased the mids and removed a bit of highs and presence but it didn't help much. It sounds better and more defined on the red channel than the crunch on the green. I've tried it with the Laney but had worse results as it's not as tight as the Peavey. However it did sound good better on the Marshall Valvestate. Truth be told I have the volume on 1 to 1.5 and that might contribute to the mushiness, as I'm playing at home. I don't have this issue with my 6 strings and two of them have actives, one SD blackouts and the other EMG 57/66. They sound kickass and if I'm not happy a slight change in the EQ gets me where I want.

So I'd like some recommendations with some settings on the Peavey 5150II as I'm sure most of you guys run a similar chain with actives. As a note I did change the tone knob as I didn't feel it affected the sound much and the input jack but didn't see any difference. Battery is fresh.

The guitar was loaded with EMG 81-7/707 and it sounded less defined so the SD Retribution set was an improvement. I remember having the same issues when I had the Carvin DC747 where whatever I did I couldn't get the low B to sound good, even after a pickup swap to D-Sonic/AirNorton going to a Mesa Triple Rec so I'm not sure it's the pickups themselves.
I don't know, I really want to make this work as I like how this guitar plays but I'm not really enjoying how it sounds and am toying with the idea of letting it go.

TL;DR: Please share some EQ tips to get a good tone from my low B string!


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## FifthCircleSquared (Jan 12, 2017)

When I played 7's, I had to use less gain then I otherwise would with 6's to get the lowest string to sound right (to my ears). I'm sure others will chime in with better solutions thought.

Don't give up!


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## Edika (Jan 12, 2017)

Yeah I know what you mean and I've tried that too but when I tried that it sounded really anemic. I'm sure if someone is layering tracks it makes sense, for 6 strings too, but playing at home or live is different I think. Anyway I might be a bit too gain heavy on my sound and getting used to less gain might help me.

Thanks for the input!


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## angl2k (Jan 12, 2017)

Please use more whitespace so your text is more readable.

Back on topic, have you tried a lighter string gauge or different brands?

I used to use D'addario 10-59 and the low B was pure mud. Then swapped to Ernie Ball 10-56 and low B tone improved. I finally settled on Cleartone 10-56 which had much more clarity to the 7th string.

Also, check your guitar setup, check the neck bow and check string action. My Ibby had a slight underbow and the action was a bit too low. I adjusted it to the Ibanez recommended settings and slightly raised action on the 7th string and the difference was pretty noticable. Notes on the 7th string were much clearer after.


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## Edika (Jan 12, 2017)

Apologies and I hope now the text is more reader friendly. 

I'll see about changing strings as maybe they are a cause for this. I did try a Dean Markley 11-60 set that came with, but the guitar was tuned to A. I set it up to B flat for that gauge and had the same result. Then tried a D'addario 9-56 in E same thing.

I did get some buzz and took the guitar for a setup and had the action somewhat higher than I usually would as I tend to be a bit heavy handed on my right hand but still the same result. Meaning that the variation was not that big to help with the above issue. I wonder if I tune it back to B if there will be any improvement.


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## prlgmnr (Jan 12, 2017)

Get an 8 string. Once you've tried to dial that ....er in your 7 will sound great to you.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Jan 12, 2017)

I've found that I need to use different settings on my amps to get an ideal tone from my 7 strings vs my 6 strings. 

For example, on my EVH and old 6505 into a V30 cab, my normal 6 string settings would be:

Gain at 4
Bass at 8 or 9
Mids at 7
Treble at 6 or 7
Presence/resonance to taste depending on the cab/volume (usually 6 and 8, respectively)

This is usually good enough for me with my 7 strings, but my more "ideal" settings for them would be more like:

Gain at 3.5
Bass, mid, treble all at 6. Maybe push the mids or treble up a notch if the particular guitar is inherently darker. 
Presence the same or pushed up a notch, maybe dial the resonance back one notch or two depending on the guitar/pickups/tuning. 

The second set of amp settings will remove a bit of excess low end and congestion in the mids that should make everything more defined. The thicker strings and lower notes of the 7 string will fill out the sound in a different way than the amp's EQ will, so the end result won't be an _identical_ tone between the guitars, but two very similar tones that work for the different sonic ranges in different ways.

EDIT: I also use a Maxon 808 to boost the front end of whatever amps I'm using, so our setups have that in common as well. Gain at 0, tone at 1:00-3:00 depending on the guitar, level at 10.


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## vilk (Jan 12, 2017)

Try this!

Gain:10
Bass: 10
Mids: 0
Treble: 10
Presence: 10

This sounds best through a Line 6 spider in my experience


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## endmysuffering (Jan 12, 2017)

vilk said:


> Try this!
> 
> Gain:10
> Bass: 10
> ...



I like 0 mids on my spider.


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## endmysuffering (Jan 12, 2017)

prlgmnr said:


> Get an 8 string. Once you've tried to dial that ....er in your 7 will sound great to you.



Amen.


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## Edika (Jan 13, 2017)

prlgmnr said:


> Get an 8 string. Once you've tried to dial that ....er in your 7 will sound great to you.





I so miss the like button. Even though I know you're joking, I did toy with the idea of getting an 8 string. After my experiences with the 7 strings though and my difficulty getting a decent tone my desire to go that route has died a horrible death.

Some good advice so far and I'll give those a go minus the line 6 settings .

I wonder if people using downtuned 6's have to do something similar in terms of EQ and gain as the string gauges would be similar for B or drop B.


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## prlgmnr (Jan 13, 2017)

This is a general thing but you're probably better using a bit more volume if you can and a bit less gain, rather than skimping on the volume and trying to make up for it with preamp gain.

I have a love-hate relationship with my 8 string because I struggle to dial it in, usually it comes down to using much much less gain and accepting that string 8 isn't going to sound like string 6. Also with the m80m I constantly have to remind myself to keep my picking hand on the bridge, it's way too easy to wander up and then wonder why palm mutes sound like absolute cock.

I love using it on clean settings though. I keep thinking about selling it but it's just such a cool looking ridiculous monster of an item.


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## Edika (Jan 13, 2017)

^Hmm that's quite interesting and it is something I've thought about myself.

Thinking a bit more on the subject, the Marshall Valvestate isn't a bass heavy amp would be the main reason why it sounds clearer and more defined. I'll try a few of the suggestions during the weekend or this afternoon if I manage to have a bit of time.

It seems like a trend though, the lower the note and the thicker the gauge, less gain is required to get a good sound.


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## laxu (Jan 14, 2017)

Most amps have just way too limited EQs so putting an EQ pedal or rack unit could help a lot. Generally you would cut some bass frequencies to keep the lowest strings from sounding boomy.


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## oceanrose (Jan 14, 2017)

Try experimenting with a different string gauge for the low B string. Increasing string gauge beefens up the tone in my experience, however go too thick and it may sould dull and less snarly. Personally i use a 64+52-11 gauge for A# tuning. Perhaps you could try using a 62 and see how that goes and take it from there.


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## DudeManBrother (Jan 15, 2017)

I dealt with the same thing a few years ago. I loved the tone on my 6ers but the 7 was always kinda boxy and lifeless. I put Bare Knuckle Aftermaths in, D'addario 11-56+Ernie Ball 74 for A std, and cut a bit more lows out on my MXR 10 band. Playing with the pickup height allowed me to keep my amp settings the same. I basically tried to set up the upper 6 strings nearly identical to my 6 string guitars in D std, and added the high tension 74 to keep the oscillation tight and clear.


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## budda (Jan 15, 2017)

Turn up your amp.


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## Edika (Jan 16, 2017)

So I had a bit of time to experiment with a few suggestions that gave me quite a bit of progress. The best results I've had with increasing the volume and decreasing the gain. I also used the red channel instead of the green that is tighter and more modern sounding. 

I've put back some lows (at 5.5) and resonance (6.5) and moved the gain to 4. Increasing the volume to 1.5 gave the low B more life! It's funny how you might know the theory behind how frequencies work but actually putting them in practice gives you that "aaah that's what it actually meant" moment. 

Going through my other guitars, I still preferred the sound of them but the gap has decreased dramatically. Clarity is a lot better and there's still girth to the the low string. I still need to experiment a bit more with the pickup height and give the volume a nudge more. 

I'm thinking about getting an EQ pedal, as some of you suggested, I'm just afraid I'll be endlessly tweaking and not playing as much. In any case my setup is really simple and I could use a couple of pedals for added effects.


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## FILTHnFEAR (Jan 16, 2017)

Get an eq pedal, it'll be your best friend, I promise. When I started beefing up my string gauges and tuning lower is was essential in getting the tone I was after.

I suggest the Boss Ge-7, it irks me to play without it. MXR is cool too, as a lot of people will recommend that one as well, but I really like the mid range frequencies of the Boss over the MXR. I have both, but rarely use the MXR. 

But either way, you'll be amazed at the difference and wished you have gotten one sooner.

P.S. At first you might do a lot of tweaking but once you figure out the settings you like, it's not really an issue. Least it wasn't for me.


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## Edika (Jan 16, 2017)

^Hmm that's good to know. It's true that I've heard a lot about the MXR one's but it's good to have a vote for the Boss as they tend to be cheaper. I'll look into one. From what I've read so far the EQ is placed in the FX loops so it'll be an opportunity for me to use the FX loop of my amp for once lol!

Using the EQ will there still be a requirement for the Maxon OD808, as it does have a slight EQ effect?

On another note will a compressor have any benefit in the sound or will it just sustain? I assume for high gain tones it won't do much but it might improve the Peavey's clean channel.


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## laxu (Jan 16, 2017)

Edika said:


> Using the EQ will there still be a requirement for the Maxon OD808, as it does have a slight EQ effect?
> 
> On another note will a compressor have any benefit in the sound or will it just sustain? I assume for high gain tones it won't do much but it might improve the Peavey's clean channel.



The Maxon will have an effect at a different point of the signal chain if you plan to use the EQ in the loop. Plus it can act as an overdrive so yeah, definitely keep it.

I would not bother with a compressor unless you are looking for some funky pop to your clean tone. I don't feel overdriven guitars benefit from any extra compression over what overdrive itself causes.


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## Edika (Jan 17, 2017)

laxu said:


> The Maxon will have an effect at a different point of the signal chain if you plan to use the EQ in the loop. Plus it can act as an overdrive so yeah, definitely keep it.
> 
> I would not bother with a compressor unless you are looking for some funky pop to your clean tone. I don't feel overdriven guitars benefit from any extra compression over what overdrive itself causes.



Yeah that would make sense for the compressor. I was thinking mainly to add some depth to the clean channel and I assume the EQ will help with that too.

I have the Laney for the cleans but while it's distortion channel is good, at the volume I'm playing, it gets smoked by the Peavey.


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## Edika (Feb 22, 2017)

Coming back to this topic again, I'm really not enjoying the sound that much of the guitar. I'm thinking of selling the guitar but I really like the playability and I'm thinking that it might be the pickups and not the guitar itself. I'm also thinking going passive as there are certain aspects of the active pickups that I don't enjoy. Having said that I don't want to mod the guitar for passives and I'd like to get something in soapbar mount. Seeing the prices of Seymour Duncans in active mount they're in Bareknuckle price territory so I'm thinking why not pay a few more pounds extra and get those.

Problem is I'm not sure about the models. In my mind the Warpigs are stuck but they might be overkill in terms of output. They seem however able to nail the huge but tight sound I'm after. I'm not dure about Alnico or Ceramic magnet. I tend to like the Alnico clip more than the Ceramic on their site as it sounds less sterile but tight enough. The Nailbombs are another option but so are the Juggernauts that combine Alnico and Ceramic magnets. The music styles I want to use them for are mainly Nevermore and Revocation songs plus bands that play in B or B flat. That would be mostly Death Metal stuff.
So what option would suit best my needs? I really don't want to go on endless pickup hunt to tell you the truth. 

I was considering The Creamery pickups which are cheaper but I think they only do open coils on 7's. I've sent them an email but I'm not too optimistic.


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## mnemonic (Feb 23, 2017)

I had similar problems back in the day, turned out my guitar was junk, haha. 

Have you ever tried stringing up your best sounding 6-string with some heavier strings and tuning it to B or Bb? This would be an inexpensive way to find out if you've just been buying guitars that aren't suited to the sound you're after. 

Another big thing I did not see mentioned in this thread is your cab's position (and your ear's position) in the room. This has a huge effect on the sound, the resonances of the room aren't something that can be counteracted with eq or compression, you just have to work with them. 

Have you tried moving the cab around? On the long wall, short wall, in the corner, pointed at heavy furniture, pointed at a bare wall, tilted up or down, different rooms... It took me a while to get the cab positioning right in my spare room once I got it all painted and finished, since the room is mostly empty and previously I had my cab in my bedroom pointed at my bed. Big difference in room resonances but I eventually found a position that worked great and sounded better than my bedroom. 

I remember when I went up a gauge in strings, I thought they just didn't suit the guitar or my tone, sounded flat and dead for the first 5 or so frets on the lowest string. I couldn't figure it out. Turned out that since I left my closet open in the room (cab was very close to the closet door) this changed the resonance enough for the room and put a big dead spot right around the frequency for Bb, so palm mutes just died out immediately. Closed the closet, problem solved. 

I think your string gauges are fine, I use a set of 11's with a 65 single for the low B string, tuned to A standard. No problems with punchiness or clarity. I am using an axe fx, but I basically stick with boosted recto and don't even bother with any deep editing these days, since the unit sounds great after tweaking just the basic amp eq.


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## Edika (Feb 23, 2017)

You make some really good points mnemonic. 
I did try to get my Schecter SLS with the SD Blackouts tuned to C with 12-60 D'addario set. It sounded quite dead and muddy. I didn't set the intonation and that is why I felt it wasn't performing that well. In general the fuitar felt that it required constant tuning. When I strung it up with the usual D'addario 10-46 it was singing again. So maybe I don't enjoy those low frequencies in the room I'm playing.

The room I'm playing is kind of like a study turning into a warehouse lol. So it has some a desk and a couple of libraries as well as a sofa. The cab is facing me so I get the direct sound of the cab plus whatever reflections I get from the walls. I can try changing the direction of the cab towards the sofa. One negative thing is that it's the attic room so there are inclined cealing walls.

One thing it points to the guitar or the pickups is that I don't enjoy the sound of the E to E strings as much as my other guitars. One thing I'll try is removing one spring, as it has five in the tremolo cavity, and if that doesn't do anything try tuning it to B standard.


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## mnemonic (Feb 23, 2017)

I haven't used blackouts in years but from what I remember they were rather bass-heavy. This amount of bottom end may be contributing to muddiness / mushiness / looseness when tuned down. The retribution is also based on a blackout, right? 

Baring that in mind, a pickup swap to something clearer / tighter / brighter may help some. If you want to go bareknuckle, (about the same price as SD in this country, so why not) I would think ceramic magnets would be best as they're genetally tighter and clearer. Warpig I think is supposed to have a lot of bottom end though? I can't really remember for sure. 

As far as positioning in relation to the cab, I've personally always preferred sitting or standing off-axis from the speaker, as you get less fizz and more bottom end in the sound you hear.


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## Edika (Feb 23, 2017)

Yes the Blackouts are quite bottom heavy, making them great for standard tuning but a bit too much on the lower tunings. I have a an SD Alternative 8 that was really tight and bright which I'm contemplating putting back to one guitar and tuning down to B.

The Retribution is based on the Blackout but the bridge pickup is closer to a tighter EMG 81-7 than a Blackout. Not as much output and more high mid focused. When play songs on the "regular" six strings it still doesn't sound as defined as I was hoping, in comparison with the regular Blackouts, EMG's 57-66 and the various passives I have in other. The Retributions don't sound bass heavy they just don't sound to have a full sound that gives a bit of that wall of sound effect I hear in most 7 strings in sound clips. That is why I was considering the Warpigs which have a pronounced bass response but is suppossed to be tight. I like the Alnico 5 magnet sound but ceramics are tighter that is why I was thinking about the Juggernauts as they have both magnets. I just want to know if they're thin sounding and can do more sounds than just djent.

I'll try and move the can or sit of axis of the cab to see if it improves the outcome. Just to be clear, it's not that the guitar sounds horrible but in comparison to my other guitars it's lacking. It's just is not there to give me the "wow I want to play with this guitar over the others".


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## Edika (Feb 24, 2017)

Yesterday evening I removed one of the 5 springs that were in the trem cavity and leveled the tremolo. I must say I think I found the culprit as the guitar is suddenly brighter acoustically, the slight tuning instability that I was seeing has gone and feels like a blanket has been lifted off the sound of the guitar. I did raise the pickups a bit too which also helped.
The thing is now I'm playing a chord and I'm hearing a uniform wall of sound and no frequencies are dying out muffling the sound, going out of phase and tuning. I can't believe how much of a difference that spring made. It didn't come with the guitar, as it had 4 springs and it was a leftover from another guitar I changed trems. 

Either 5 were too much for that tuning and string gauge or it behaved slighlty differently in terms of elasticity than the other 4 springs that it messed with the trem function. Anyway I'm getting the sound I was expecting from a low tuned guitar and I'm enjoying it a lot. I might consider changing the pickups at some point as they're not quite there but this guitar will be getting a lot more playtime from now on.


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## Zivtins (Feb 24, 2017)

I always had this problem with my 6-string Caparison HGS. Had it tuned down to B but my lord the B just sounded muddy and boomy with no clarity, even with just a 56.

Then I changed to a 7 string with EMG 707's and my whole world changed. I now play drop A and the clarity is worlds apart from the Caparison. I even have a 7 tuned to F# on the bottom with EMG 817's and while it's obviously muddier than the A it still has awesome clarity and meatiness/chug to it.

I know that there's something about 7 strings that seems to give more clarity on the B string than you can on a 6 but since the change I would swear by EMG's, or more correctly, by right pickups. Apparently the 7-string pickups are configured differently and it only makes sense that the guys who designed the 707 and 817 obviously realised the bottom would be tuned to B as standard so configured them to pickup the note and feed clarity better.

So I would recommend playing around with pickups as a priority! Also what helps with tone and clarity is a smaller string gauge, so to keep good tension I would recommend a baritone scale if your situation is bad enough for you to consider getting a whole new guitar.


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## MetalHead40 (Feb 24, 2017)

Edika said:


> Yesterday evening I removed one of the 5 springs that were in the trem cavity and leveled the tremolo. I must say I think I found the culprit as the guitar is suddenly brighter acoustically, the slight tuning instability that I was seeing has gone and feels like a blanket has been lifted off the sound of the guitar. I did raise the pickups a bit too which also helped.
> The thing is now I'm playing a chord and I'm hearing a uniform wall of sound and no frequencies are dying out muffling the sound, going out of phase and tuning. I can't believe how much of a difference that spring made. It didn't come with the guitar, as it had 4 springs and it was a leftover from another guitar I changed trems.
> 
> Either 5 were too much for that tuning and string gauge or it behaved slighlty differently in terms of elasticity than the other 4 springs that it messed with the trem function. Anyway I'm getting the sound I was expecting from a low tuned guitar and I'm enjoying it a lot. I might consider changing the pickups at some point as they're not quite there but this guitar will be getting a lot more playtime from now on.




As one of the other members stated, an eq in the loop is something you should ABSOLUTELY try. I think you'd be extremely happy with the result

A pickup swap coupled with the above would probably get you REALLY close to what your after. I would stick with ceramic.


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## Edika (Mar 14, 2017)

I've still haven't bought a looper pedal as most people have been suggesting (yeah I know) but I'm thinking of swapping the pickups. I'll put a trade thread for these here.

Now I'm thinking of going with actives again as I don't want to swap the electronics and changing actives is easy . I'm thinking about the SD EMTY's or the EMG 57-7/66-7 set. I've heard really good things about the EMTY's and I have a set of six string EMG 57/66 which I really like.
How about the regular Blackouts though? I have a set of six strings on one of my guitars and really like them at E and E flat. I tried tuning that guitar at C and drop C and wasn't really pleased with the results. How do the 7 string ones fair? Are they too boomy and muddy on the low B?


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## mnemonic (Mar 14, 2017)

I've heard they're heavy on the low mids and many say they're muddy. It's been so long since I used them that I can't remember anymore. A friend put a set in his seven string way back when they came out, I remember there was a ton of hype at the time and lots of people likened them to an 'EMG killer'. Funny how things change. 

For what it's worth, the Fishman Fluence Moderns are apparently very clear sounding, but again, they're new and very hyped at the moment so who knows how much you read is true. I haven't tried any myself, but I am planning on getting a set in the next several months for one of my guitars. 

They drop right in to EMG wiring and use the same 3 pin quick connect, though you'll be stuck with just one 'voice' until you wire up a switch or push/pull to change to the second voice.


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## Edika (Mar 14, 2017)

I'm curious about the Fishman's myself but I find them too expensive for the UK market.

That is what I'm afraid of for the Blackouts that they'll be mud city. The sound clips I hear on the internet make them sound quite clear and tight but the problem is until you get a feel for something in person you're never sure.

Case in point I got another 7 recently (NGD coming in soon) with an Ionizer in the bridge. These are supposed to be really tight but not shrill, the tone chart at Dimarzio show a 6 bass, 7 mid and 5 treble with high output. What I hear is a like having a single coil, with less noise in terms of output and response. The clean sound was the worst I've got from a humbucker and while the distorted sound on the low strings seem quite full in chords, going below the G string it's ear piercing. The guitar has only a volume know so that might be contributing to this, but still it sounds nothing like what I've heard in clips.


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## mnemonic (Mar 14, 2017)

Agreed, European distribution seems to be .... for fishman. Cheaper to buy on eBay and have it shipped over and pay customs, than to order through a UK or European dealer.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 14, 2017)

I found that whatever problem you're having tonally with lower tunings, actives only seem to exacerbate them. If you're stuck with them, try backing off on the volume pot and slowly working it back up until you find a happy medium between clarity and gain. I'm at +/- 5-6 on my volume atm, and am pretty happy with my tone there.

As has been previously suggested, running an EQ pedal in your FX loop will greatly reduce the amounts of tone-chasing stress you'll have to suffer. 

Things is though you're never going to able to fully integrate that bottom 7th string into the same tonal range of the lower six. I know, I've tried. You really have to treat it independently of the rest. That said, you're going to have to base your tone off the 7th string and not expect to be able to base it off the lower six. Try giving a little boost in the 1.5K and 3K to give the 7th string a little more cut/clarity while backing off slightly in the 100-200s and at 400 if you're having some boxiness.


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## rocky0 (Mar 15, 2017)

Just dial down the gain you would normally have for your 6-string. Then be careful with the low/bass. Then add a bit more mid and treble and you'll be fine!


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## Great Satan (Mar 15, 2017)

Peavey 5150's require a li'l tweaking from stock;
stick a MXR 10-band eq in the loop and dial back the lowend some (cutting out the 200hz helps clear things up a bit, boosting 100hz gives it some oomph).

I use a Retribution and can get good sounds with it, can be a little mid heavy too so maybe scoop somewhere from 500-1000 until it sounds a little more balanced.


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## Edika (Mar 15, 2017)

Thank you for the input guys. 

I've tried lowering the gain, getting the pickups lower, giving a boost on the mids and treble and it sounded like crap. Without enough gain the low B sounds like a wet fart but I've yet to find the magic spot. When I boost the mids and treble and cut the bass it just sounds like a shrill mess. The problem is that some days it sounds fine and some don't so personal bias plays into it. It also sounds significantly better on the red channel than the green on the 5150II. Plus while the clean channel of my Laney likes the pickups, the dirty does not. Still my Valvestate makes it sound better so I'll give it another go with cutting some of the bass and maybe boosting the treble.

It's really difficult to describe but when I start with the 7 string everything sounds more or less ok but when I switch to one of my 6 strings, even the ones with actives, it's like a blanket has bee taken of the speakers. It's not that it sounds bad I'm just not getting the oomph I was expecting and have been hearing. The low B is a bit jangly, if that makes sense and if I get the pickups high enough for the other 6 strings to sounds decent then the low B gets too gainy and muddy. 

I tried getting the volume to 3-4 to see if moving a bit more air helps but it was too loud. I can get an attenuator but I'm not sure it will be beneficial if I'm running the volume low and thus not moving enough air with the speakers.

As money's a bit tight this month I'll see about getting an EQ pedal next month. MXR's seem the way yo go but even used are about £80. There is a cheapo copy of the MXR (Caline) which I'm thinking of getting just to prove the concept.

I think one of the reasons my mind is subconsciously sabotaging the purchase of an EQ pedal is that I feel I first have to be satisfied with the base sound of the pickup and fixing minor things than relying on an external EQ to sculpt the sound but maybe it's my noobness making me think that way.


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## Carl Kolchak (Mar 15, 2017)

@Edika: Which is why I swore off 7 and 8 strings and went to a 6 string baritone.

If you enjoy playing in B standard, then perhaps you might want to consider switching to a 6 string baritone with a 26.5"/27" scale?


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## Great Satan (Mar 15, 2017)

A lot of people can be amazed (with the 5150 in particular, i've read numerous times) at the difference a good eq in the loop can make.
Usually its best to cut frequencies rather than boost.

Also; consider playing your 5150ii next to either block letter 5150 or a 5150iii, that particular version of that amp just might not be to your liking but others might, there are subtle differences between them but aficionados have gone at great lengths as to what these are.


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## mnemonic (Mar 15, 2017)

Re- EQ's. I got a cheap 'Biyang' 7-band eq off eBay (shiny chrome one) pretty cheap. I didn't want to spent a lot on an MXR or Boss. Works pretty well, I think, I have it in the loop of my Marshall Valvestate. 

When I was reading up on eq pedals, some seemed to dislike the 10-bands due to the frequencies of the bands, and many seemed to prefer the frequencies of the 7-bands. I guess that will depend on you though.


Edit-what is the scale length on your seven strings? Mine are all 25.5" which is fine for me, but my 8 string (RG8) is 27", and the low B string is very tight and clear, likely due to the scale length and being able to run lighter strings. Also probably since the bridge pickup is a 6-string bass pickup, and kind of has a 'singlecoil-like' attack.


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## Edika (Mar 15, 2017)

I'll see then about getting the cheapo EQ and see if it works well. The guitar is 25.5' and currently has Rotosound 10-46 with a 60 on the low string, tuned to B flat so nothing too extreme. I'm actually thinking of maybe getting a similar combo with D'addario as they are brighter strings, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make.

I'd love to compare a 5150, 5150II and III all in one sitting but being N.Ireland I have to buy those amps to do so lol! I think the crunch channel on the 5150 II seems to be closer to the 5150 distortion channel or I might be mistaken.

If I was to invest in a new amp though I'd think about the new Invective so I can get at least a good clean channel.


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## Great Satan (Mar 16, 2017)

Could be scale length;
i play retributions in a 26.5 scale tuned to A with the elixir 7-string set (is their standard 10's with i think a 57), even though that's a fret tuned down with a slightly lighter 7th string, you'd be amazed what difference an extra inch on the scale length can make.

Oh, but i also play a neck version retribution in the bridge, it's a little less output but has the same eq curve (requires less tweaking when i switch between active and passive guitars vol/input wise). 

Maybe try swapping the neck and bridge around?


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## Edika (Mar 17, 2017)

I can try that. I'm also thinking of changing the strings to D'Addarios as I feel the Rotosounds sound a bit dull.


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## Edika (Mar 20, 2017)

I tried a few of the things you guys suggested, especially lowering the gain in the amp and the bass and had a major positive impact. Cleared the sound a lot more and still has enough of girth to the sound. Increasing the volume did help too but where I'm playing I can't go higher than 2.

I'll be getting an EQ next month and try a few settings.


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## mnemonic (Mar 20, 2017)

Good to hear things are improving


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## Great Satan (Mar 20, 2017)

Dialing in tone can be a long process sometimes, especially with more components involved.

Currently i'm running a 1x12 v30 recorded into a SM57 into a joe meek mic pre/compessor/para-eq. I've found that if i scoop the 200hz zone right out post microphone (equivalent would be in the fx loop without a mic setup) it cleans the signal right up; no overwhelming mud or bassiness, tightens and clears the whole signal up without drastically altering the basic sound.

I find a lot of engineers use a multiband compressor to control that zone, it seems to be a pretty consistent problem area for recorded guitars (need room for that bass!)


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## Edika (Mar 21, 2017)

Recording would be an area I haven't delved in, aside for really really basic recording, and I would assume if I start seeing it seriously I'll be in the same, if not worse position, that I am with 7 strings.

But this is the great thing with this forum. I needed help and members with far more experience came in to give me insight and directions to get the sound I've been hearing people achieving with extended range instruments.


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