# Becoming an advanced player



## progman (Nov 4, 2013)

I consider myself an intermediate level player. I am pretty good with the pentatonic scale (bluesy stuff) and I can do a little shredding (not too fast though). I am trying to become an advanced player and I am hoping I could get some ideas on how to progress. I have a few obstacles. One, I used to have a guitar teacher when I was younger (20 years ago), but I literally remember nothing about music theory. Also, I am older now and have a lot more responsibilities. I have about 30mins to 1 hour max to play per day. I am willing to take things slowly, but I would actually like to enjoy my time too.

Here was my idea for maybe the next year or so. I was thinking of working on left/right hand strength and coordination to work on speed (first few months). Then, start to work on tapping, and finally sweep arpeggios (which I cannot do for the life of me). All along, I will try to pick up some theory.

I just got Petruccis Guitar Discipline and it seems pretty helpful. I listen mostly to progressive metal so I have a lot of work to do. I do not want to
learn more using tabs from bands I like though. This method doesnt work for me for some reason.--Thanks guys


----------



## samthebrutal (Nov 4, 2013)

Get Guthrie Govan's Creative Guitar Books, they will open you up to all kinds of new ideas you can explore in depth later on. Excellent materials.


----------



## MYGFH (Nov 5, 2013)

"Becoming an advanced player" has eluded me for many, many years. This year, I made a decision that I want this more than anything else. I am married, have a career, responsibilities. But I devote all of my spare time sitting on my butt attached to my guitar. Football... what's that? My wife has to beg to tear me away from playing and spend time with her. She supports me, so at least we don't fight. I found a kick-ass teacher. Now I have someone other than myself to be accountable to. Plus, JP is not going to jump out of the DVD and tell you what you're doing wrong. That is my problem. I don't know what I don't know. Good luck, hope we both make it!


----------



## Solodini (Nov 5, 2013)

Try to work to come up with your own exercises but make sure that they're musical and sound interesting to you. If you want to still have fun then you might not be so keen on many exercises out there. If you write your own you can make sure they fit your tastes and can include various disciplines you wish to practise. 
That way you practise your writing, too, which feeds into learning to improvise. 

Initially you might struggle to come up with anything tasty in your half hour but try to remember the little fragments and connections you liked (without writing it all down) and try to apply those things next time you sit down to write and practise. 

You can extract cool bits from other people's songs and try to put them in a new context, as well. This can make learning the song easier as you can work the tough bit without staring at the same bar of the song for 40 mins. You'll then have a bunch of new licks and phrases similar to your idols, as well.

After a while you'll have skills and a pretty tasty musical vocabulary to apply to making music you want to hear and playing it well.

Hope that helps.


----------



## progman (Nov 5, 2013)

trenticle said:


> "Becoming an advanced player" has eluded me for many, many years. This year, I made a decision that I want this more than anything else. I am married, have a career, responsibilities. But I devote all of my spare time sitting on my butt attached to my guitar. Football... what's that? My wife has to beg to tear me away from playing and spend time with her. She supports me, so at least we don't fight. I found a kick-ass teacher. Now I have someone other than myself to be accountable to. Plus, JP is not going to jump out of the DVD and tell you what you're doing wrong. That is my problem. I don't know what I don't know. Good luck, hope we both make it!



I hear you bro. My wife is going to kill me if I play any more. Our first child was born last year which makes my new obsession a "worst possible timing ever" issue.


----------



## viesczy (Nov 5, 2013)

Okay, I'm prolly all but twice everyone's age here as I'm 42  but along with learning the neck, the first thing my guitar instructor had me develop was my left hand and the synchronization of my hands together. 

The drills he had me used for my left hand were based on each finger taking one fret and starting on each finger for a 4 note pattern. There are 96 variations if playing 4 notes per string. Easiest example 1-2-3-4. So you'd play that pattern in 1st position across the strings giong back and forth on the neck, all alternate picking. Get that lickety split quick and clean, played through a clean channel, then move on. 

What I ended up doing was combining the harder drills (those starting w the 4th finger) and doing 8 notes per string so that my endurance would build up. Example 4-3-4-2-4-3-4-1. Get that lickety split quick and clean across the neck. 

Then get diabolic, add string skipping. 4-3 on the 1st string 4-2 on 3rd string. 4-3 on the 1st string and 4-1 on the 3rd string. Repeat the patter for 2nd and 4th, 3rd and 5th, and then 4th and 6th. Repeat going from bass to treble. 

I knew music from learning organ as a child (started when I was 4 on my dad's Hammond B3  and took lessons till I was 10ish), so my instructor was first about getting my hands trained to play guitar, then he was all into bebop and later jazz. So after my hands were sync-ed it was Parker, Coltrane and Davis. All of which I didn't/couldn't "hear" after at least half a decade of classical music, and what I did "hear" hurt my musical ear! No Bachian logic! 

I can throw up that pattern list if you want. 

Derek


----------



## progman (Nov 6, 2013)

viesczy said:


> Okay, I'm prolly all but twice everyone's age here as I'm 42  but along with learning the neck, the first thing my guitar instructor had me develop was my left hand and the synchronization of my hands together.
> 
> The drills he had me used for my left hand were based on each finger taking one fret and starting on each finger for a 4 note pattern. There are 96 variations if playing 4 notes per string. Easiest example 1-2-3-4. So you'd play that pattern in 1st position across the strings giong back and forth on the neck, all alternate picking. Get that lickety split quick and clean, played through a clean channel, then move on.
> 
> ...



Yea, just like what my guitar teacher had me start doing right before I quit lessons. I took them for about 3 years almost 20 years ago. Stuff like, "starting with the first position"...

1-2-3-4 up and down the neck
4-3-2-1 up and down
1-4-2-3 etc etc

All alternate picking. Not the most interesting stuff, but probably gets the job done. I should have stuck with it. I am thinking about starting lessons again. Maybe something like 1/2 hour every other week due to time constraints.


----------



## Solodini (Nov 6, 2013)

You can use those same mechanics but across a couple of strings to make it more musical.


----------



## Maniacal (Nov 6, 2013)

Or just do them with scales and arpeggios and work on 2 things at the same time. 

Chromatic exercises are next to pointless if you ask me, especially for "advanced" guitar players. Why work on 1234 at high speed when you can work on jazz/blues/shred licks at high speed instead? These are things you will eventually apply to improvising and writing. 

Also, even groupings per string are not a technical issue for most on guitar. Odd groupings are. Work on those instead.


----------



## Solodini (Nov 6, 2013)

Yeah, sorry, scalar patterns were what I was implying: you can pick and choose notes for each finger across a couple of strings and form patterns with those in ways which are more musical. You'll be able to cover most tonalities, depending on which sets of fingerings you choose. 

For instance, a major 3rd would be out of reach if your first finger is on the tonic, but if you make the middle finger the one which frets the tonic then the major 3rd can be reached by the first finger on the next string. Apologies if that's obvious but many people seem mentally fixed in boxes of first finger on the tonic.


----------



## progman (Nov 6, 2013)

I am glad some people think that the 1-2-3-4 stuff isn't the greatest because it is pretty boring. Some of the Petrucci DVD stuff is like this and some of it is more fun. So basically you guys think I should just work on learning some new scales/arpeggios for alternate picking and use a metronome? I am sticking with alternate and legato for know. Maybe a little string skipping arpeggio stuff too. Actually my legato is better cuz I don't have to be so left/right hand coordinated. My right is a little slow. I am actually left handed and was forced as a child to play right. I don't know if or how much that is effecting me now.


----------



## Maniacal (Nov 6, 2013)

Yes. 

Work on the following at the same time:

Modes of major, melodic minor, harmonic minor. 

Root and inversions of the common arpeggios. 

Subdivisions: Don't just play 16ths and triplets, play quintuplets, swing, septuplets. 

Groupings: When playing triplets, don't limit yourself to 3 nps patterns of 3. Work on 2,3,4,5,6,7 note sequences to ANY subdivision. This will do wonders for your timing and give you creative ways to play lines other than the classic Gilbert sequences. 

From a technical standpoint, work on efficiency of motion and endurance. Get these 2 aspects of picking down and THEN concern yourself with speed. This applies to picking and legato. 

1 2 3 4 is okay for beginners to get used to using all 4 fingers, but that is about it. The Petrucci stuff is fine, but it's very primitive. There are plenty of other things to work on, like I mentioned above. 

I will get more hate than I need to if I don't also mention this: Play music. Be musical. 

However it is hard to be musical with scales and sequences when you can't play them well and your vibrato sucks, so I would focus on nailing all those things before being too concerned about being musical. Neg reps coming my way!


----------



## Solodini (Nov 6, 2013)

And don't forget that rests are also a valid choice in those rhythmic exercises. They create a bit more interest for your ears and brain. They'll force you to be even more in control of when you play.


----------



## Maniacal (Nov 6, 2013)

That's right. So you could practice playing scales using 16th notes, a sequence of 4 and a spacing of 5. 

1--------2--------3------ < beats

-----------------4-5-X- etc
-------3-X-5-7--------- 
-3-5-7--------------------


----------



## progman (Nov 6, 2013)

Some of the technical terms you guys are using I am not aware of but I am willing to look everything up. I notice you guys both instruct. I think that it is real cool that you guys give advice for free. I know its good business and it helps you to get more students, but still. Gods honest true guys, how limiting is Skype when giving lessons?


----------



## Maniacal (Nov 6, 2013)

Skype is fine, as long as the connection is good. I have given a few lessons recently that were next to impossible due to lag. It can also be frustrating at times when you want to correct technique and can't just move the students hands etc. 

I am not trying to push anything to sell onto you. I have no copies of my second book left anyway.


----------



## Solodini (Nov 6, 2013)

As Maniacal said. It's not suitable for playing together but for taking turns to demonstrate something then play it back it works fine, most of the time.


----------



## celticelk (Nov 6, 2013)

Since we're talking about advanced playing here, a query: I've been seeing lots of recommendations to work on the modes of harmonic and melodic minor as well as the diatonic modes. How often do the rest of you actually *use* those modes? I can see productive uses for Phrygian Dominant, Lydian Dominant, and Altered, and that's about it. (Of course, I'm not a Holdsworth fan, so maybe those of you who are have different contextual info that makes those scales useful....)


----------



## Dirtdog (Nov 6, 2013)

I just want to say that sometimes it's easier to work on the modes away from the guitar. What I mean by that is just going over the harmonized chord scales for the different modes by saying them out loud to yourself as your driving or whatever or saying the scale or mode formula.
Or even what notes are in g major or g mixolydian etc
it cuts down the time you will need when at your guitar if you can do the non playing stuff away from it and then when you get to the guitar you can implement it much faster and make better use of your time like actually fingering patterns or chord patterns rather than thinking about what chord comes next and the pattern.
I do it everyday when I'm driving by starting with major chord scale the. Lydian and mixolydian then I do the same with the minor modes then harmonic minor and melodic minor 
And them spew out chord progressions like I vi ii I etc


----------



## wespaul (Nov 6, 2013)

There's tons of technique stuff you can do, and some have already suggested some stuff. I would recommend getting into chord-tone soloing, which breaks down what chords are being played, how they're constructed, and how hitting chord tones while soloing can really make your solos come alive (instead of just running blues scales all over everything). I've found that this really helps players (who are stuck in a rut) connect the dots between music theory and actually applying it in their own playing. And the great thing about it is you can apply this knowledge to just about any style. The technique stuff you're wanting to develop will also pair nicely with this new approach as well. 

I recommend this book or this book (although this one is more jazz-oriented).


----------



## Solodini (Nov 7, 2013)

celticelk said:


> Since we're talking about advanced playing here, a query: I've been seeing lots of recommendations to work on the modes of harmonic and melodic minor as well as the diatonic modes. How often do the rest of you actually *use* those modes? I can see productive uses for Phrygian Dominant, Lydian Dominant, and Altered, and that's about it. (Of course, I'm not a Holdsworth fan, so maybe those of you who are have different contextual info that makes those scales useful....)



Quite frequently. Whatever we're calling 6th mode of Harmonic Minor comes quite naturally, I find. I guess the fact that I can't remember the name for it, just the harmonic structure goes to show that becoming familiar with various harmonic ideas is useful for them to simply expand your musical palette and vocabulary. 

As such, learning to be fluid with tonality is good. It makes tension and resolution easier, once you're used to it.


----------



## progman (Nov 7, 2013)

Wow.... This is becoming a very successful thread. Great recommendations. All this theory talk is making me feel like an idiot though. Overwhelming to say the least. I wish I took theory in high school or college.


----------



## Solodini (Nov 7, 2013)

It's not too late.


----------



## Rommel (Nov 7, 2013)

For some theory help/review you might want to check this site out. There are free exercises on there. musictheory.net

Working on learning complete songs, as well as playing along with recordings will help you improve faster. They will also help you pinpoint where you need to put in "extra work".


----------



## celticelk (Nov 7, 2013)

Solodini said:


> Quite frequently. Whatever we're calling 6th mode of Harmonic Minor comes quite naturally, I find. I guess the fact that I can't remember the name for it, just the harmonic structure goes to show that becoming familiar with various harmonic ideas is useful for them to simply expand your musical palette and vocabulary.
> 
> As such, learning to be fluid with tonality is good. It makes tension and resolution easier, once you're used to it.



Lydian #9? I guess I just don't like the #9/b3 against the major 7 unless I'm specifically going for that Spanish/Arabic/classical/whatever harmonic minor sound. I'm more likely to use Lydian Dominant #9, which is basically a 7-tone subset of symmetrical diminished (just omit the b9), although I use the b9 so much it's hard to say whether I'm actually "thinking" of one or the other at any given point.


----------



## Maniacal (Nov 7, 2013)

^ yes.

I don't decide to play for example Locrian #6 for improvising, but I will do my best to see all the mode shapes over a static vamp. 

So if I am playing over a E Phrygian Dominant backing track, I will still play all the relevant mode shapes and their arpeggios. It's a work in progress that is gradually getting me out of seeing boxes that ultimately limit my movement across the neck.


----------



## djyngwie (Nov 7, 2013)

There's little doubt, that most people will find some of these modes more useful than others. As was said, Phrygian Dominant is probably the most used mode of harmonic minor. I like the hungarian (4th mode) quite a bit as well. For melodic minor, the ones you (celticelk) mentioned are certainly the most used, but I'd like to add that the locrian natural 2 is pretty cool over half-diminished chords.

But yeah, those are the modes I've used the most. That doesn't mean somebody won't gravitate towards other modes. Find out which ones are useful to you and use them - don't feel bad about getting more mileage out of what you like; it's a good thing to focus on your strengths. You can always go back to some of the others and experiment. Sometimes, I find that I try out a particular scale/mode and I'm all "how can this ever be useful and sound good?" and then, months or even years later I revisit it and suddenly it all makes sense. Tastes and ears grow and develop over time. For me, a lot of the melodic minor sounds were like this.


----------



## 80H (Nov 7, 2013)

An advanced player is nothing more than someone that has a solid grasp of enough fundamental wisdom to choose what they want to do with the instrument.




A beginner has no freedom and an intermediate player has very little. The distinguishing line between your average advanced player and your average intermediate player is that an advanced player has already mentally solidified many of the skills that an intermediate is just being exposed to. Simply put, an advanced player is living in accordance with a significant number of fundamentals while the intermediate is just considering them.


What's even more important to realize is that advanced is a relative term. Your average person off the street knows nothing about the instrument, and all they care about is what sounds good, and rightly so. They are the true check to your abilities. From this perspective, it's easier to see that "advanced" is a word that is used by guitarists for other guitarists.

As far as being a musician goes, skill is literally pointless until it is necessary to play something. I have met guitarists that couldn't hold a candle to my kneecap technically, but their ability to make music that people love is their kneecap that I can't hold a candle to (yet!). 




I am currently enjoying floating around in the gray area between advanced and pre-virtuoso, and it's not easy for me to remember every little detail that got me from point a to point b, but what I can say for certain is that the four most important ingredients for growth are basic, fundamental building blocks, practice time, technical advancement (from square 1 to square 2 ad infinitum) and musicianship (the act of creating and offering music). 

It might seem like a simple formula, but that would be like saying that a marinade is a simple formula because it only requires spices, oil and an acid. There is a massive amount of wiggle room within the categories, and there's literally not enough hours in the day to even remotely get one hundreth of one percent of the possibilities covered in your entire life. That's when the development of your own voice and style starts to make much more sense.


----------



## viesczy (Nov 7, 2013)

progman said:


> Yea, just like what my guitar teacher had me start doing right before I quit lessons. I took them for about 3 years almost 20 years ago. Stuff like, "starting with the first position"...
> 
> 1-2-3-4 up and down the neck
> 4-3-2-1 up and down
> ...



They are BORING those exercies, but those warm up exercises are invaluable for building a great set of hands. I still use the a combination of them as my first picking routine just to sync my two hands. Then I go to Scarified, then it is off to w/e I am rehearsing (right now I am FIXED on Novacek's Perpetuum Mobile) or composing/arranging/developing something. 

I will say this about those exercises... I sorta did so much alternate picking that not picking every not feels weird to me. Unless it is a trill or a tapped note with my right hand, typically I'm picking the notes.  

The Holdsworth legato type of stuff is as alien to me as all that jazz was to me!  

Derek


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Nov 7, 2013)

Ok, bear with me here...

What is very frustrating to me is, (and mind you, I am self taught and have a solid working "vocabulary" when playing) I always hear people talking about learning to use different modes and such, but aren't you always ever just playing a particular scale (C Major - containing all of its 7 modes - for example) over a progression at any given point, rather than playing a particular mode of a particular scale over a progression? I always became massively confused by this. In order for a mode of a scale to fit over a progression, it has to be in key (and it would therefore make more sense to talk about what key you were playing in as opposed to what mode you were using), unless you are modulating using "versatile" modes (modes that will fit over several different chords of different keys, as I understand it) over a shifting chord pattern (one that is changing keys). I hope that makes sense. Put more simply, but perhaps too crudely: rather than talking about the importance of learning how to use a particular mode, shouldn't we just place an importance on playing in key? When I'm improvising, I'm following along with any variety of notes (from any of the modes in the key I'm in) that are in key with the progression, rather than playing with one mode. Ugh. 

I can't call myself anything less than an advanced player at this point, but when I hear these sorts of discussions about using modes in different ways, I always feel like I'm either completely blind to this whole realm of possiblilities, and bound to smack myself when I finally figure out what I was missing, or that everybody is using technical terms that I've outgrown the need for as an intuitive player.

Any light shed on this would be met with much love and gratitude.


----------



## djyngwie (Nov 7, 2013)

That's parallel thinking. While it's good for some things (learning the basic idea behind modes being a pretty important one), in a lot of contexts it really is useful thinking of each mode as a separate scale, even if you can always relate it back to a major scale. For instance, a lydian scale is more than just a major scale played a fourth perfect away: each note takes on a different function and so on.

Both mindsets will add to your understanding of music. And there's other, hybrid ways of thinking about scales (the lydian chromatic concept, for instance). Again, knowledge is power.


----------



## Solodini (Nov 8, 2013)

celticelk said:


> Lydian #9? I guess I just don't like the #9/b3 against the major 7 unless I'm specifically going for that Spanish/Arabic/classical/whatever harmonic minor sound. I'm more likely to use Lydian Dominant #9, which is basically a 7-tone subset of symmetrical diminished (just omit the b9), although I use the b9 so much it's hard to say whether I'm actually "thinking" of one or the other at any given point.



I like playing with semitone resolutions so the lydian #9 feel works well for that in Major centric tunes. I like it for being able to mirror movements in other harmonic contexts as well, so being able to do so around tonic chord tones I find to be handy.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Nov 8, 2013)

Solodini said:


> I like playing with semitone resolutions so the lydian #4 feel works well for that in Major centric tunes. I like it for being able to mirror movements in other harmonic contexts as well, so being able to do so around tonic chord tones I find to be handy.



Could you possibly post a clip demonstrating this? Knowing how this translates musically would be helpful, I think.


----------



## Maniacal (Nov 8, 2013)

I'd like to see that too


----------



## Solodini (Nov 8, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Could you possibly post a clip demonstrating this? Knowing how this translates musically would be helpful, I think.



I'll try to make some time to do so!


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Nov 8, 2013)

Also, not to high jack the thread, but any thoughts from you or Maniacal on my previous rant-sized post?


----------



## progman (Nov 8, 2013)

80H said:


> An advanced player is nothing more than someone that has a solid grasp of enough fundamental wisdom to choose what they want to do with the instrument.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with most of this. When I say advanced, it is kinda one of those "I don't know exactly what it is but I know it when I see (hear) it" kinda of things. What I really want is to improve on is:

1. Increasing my speed and left/right coordination (alternate picking, legato)
enough to...
2. Become proficient with finger tapping and sweep arpeggios
3. Learn more "tricks" for my arsenal
4. Maybe not so much "theory" per se, but guitar terms and scales. Not that interested in stuff like sight reading. I don't want this one to take to much of my total "guitar time"


----------



## Solodini (Nov 8, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Ok, bear with me here...
> 
> What is very frustrating to me is, (and mind you, I am self taught and have a solid working "vocabulary" when playing) I always hear people talking about learning to use different modes and such, but aren't you always ever just playing a particular scale (C Major - containing all of its 7 modes - for example) over a progression at any given point, rather than playing a particular mode of a particular scale over a progression? I always became massively confused by this. In order for a mode of a scale to fit over a progression, it has to be in key (and it would therefore make more sense to talk about what key you were playing in as opposed to what mode you were using), unless you are modulating using "versatile" modes (modes that will fit over several different chords of different keys, as I understand it) over a shifting chord pattern (one that is changing keys). I hope that makes sense. Put more simply, but perhaps too crudely: rather than talking about the importance of learning how to use a particular mode, shouldn't we just place an importance on playing in key? When I'm improvising, I'm following along with any variety of notes (from any of the modes in the key I'm in) that are in key with the progression, rather than playing with one mode. Ugh.
> 
> ...



So are you meaning the thought of changing "mode" to suit every chord? If I've interpreted your post correctly, yes, playing dorian over the ii chord, phrygian over iii, lydian over IV et c. is just playing the tonic key.

However, if your tune feels like it resolves to D with an all natural key signature then it's D Dorian.

Or are you meaning using atypical modes with each chord, such as Ionian of I, IV and V, for a simple example?


----------



## celticelk (Nov 8, 2013)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Ok, bear with me here...
> 
> What is very frustrating to me is, (and mind you, I am self taught and have a solid working "vocabulary" when playing) I always hear people talking about learning to use different modes and such, but aren't you always ever just playing a particular scale (C Major - containing all of its 7 modes - for example) over a progression at any given point, rather than playing a particular mode of a particular scale over a progression? I always became massively confused by this. In order for a mode of a scale to fit over a progression, it has to be in key (and it would therefore make more sense to talk about what key you were playing in as opposed to what mode you were using), unless you are modulating using "versatile" modes (modes that will fit over several different chords of different keys, as I understand it) over a shifting chord pattern (one that is changing keys). I hope that makes sense. Put more simply, but perhaps too crudely: rather than talking about the importance of learning how to use a particular mode, shouldn't we just place an importance on playing in key? When I'm improvising, I'm following along with any variety of notes (from any of the modes in the key I'm in) that are in key with the progression, rather than playing with one mode. Ugh.
> 
> ...



I'll have a crack at this, at least until the theory heavyweights make an appearance.

Let's start here: Dm-G7-C is a progression in C major. No more, no less. C is the chord to which you shall resolve, and the chord of the resolving shall be C. =) It's not a Dorian-Mixolydian-Ionian progression. And since all of these chords are diatonic to C major, you can just play the C major pitch collection over the progression and have everything work.

BUT: the pitches in C major (CEFGABD) also have particular relationships to the chord that is sounding *at any given moment*. When the Dm chord is sounding, then the C note functions as a minor 7, and has a more "restless" feeling than when the C chord is sounding. In order to explicitly identify the relationships of those C major pitches against the respective chords in the progression, you could describe what you're playing as D Dorian - G Mixolydian - C Ionian. Same notes, but what you're conveying is the particular relationship of that pitch set to the harmony-of-the-moment.

This is a useful way to think about what you're doing because there's no universal law that says that I *have* to play C major over a C major progression. Maybe I want a melody that sounds a little more pungent, because that's how my tastes run. I might choose alternate pitch collections to play over each of those chords that are reasonably consonant with the harmony-of-the-moment, and which provide more interesting melodic alternatives than a vanilla C major scale. I might play D Aeolian (DEFGABbC) - G Altered (GAbBbCbDbEbF) - C Lydian (CDEF#GAB), for example, because I like to exploit the half-step movements that occur in moving from one scale to the next, and because I like the sound of the Lydian scale's #4 better than the major scale's natural 4. This is pretty standard bebop stuff. But our progression is still in C!

Conversely, you can have progressions in C that are not all composed of diatonic chords in C major. If I play Dm-G7#9-C, for example, the #9 in G7 (Bb) is not part of the C major pitch collection, but the progression still resolves unmistakably to C. Or I could substitute Db7#9 (Db-F-Ab-Cb-E) for the G7#9, and have two notes that are not diatonic to C major, while retaining the strong resolution on C. In those cases, simply playing C major over the progression might not yield a melodic line that is aesthetically pleasing against the harmony (depending on your tastes, of course), and you might want to select a different scale for that portion of your melodic movement.

Of course, not all music has strong functional harmony. There are genres (modal jazz, doom metal, a number of electronic styles, etc.) where functional harmony is optional or even discouraged. Take the jazz tune "So What," for example:



There's no progression there: they just hang out on Dm7 for a while, then switch to Ebm7, and then back to Dm7. Under those circumstances, a soloist might reasonably select any scale that's consonant with that harmony and spend some time exploring it. In the case of "So What," the two chords in the head and Bill Evans' piano comping tend to nudge the soloist towards selecting Dorian rather than, say, Phrygian or Locrian, though a determined soloist who wants to consciously evoke those dissonances might play using those scales anyway to create tension, and then resolve to a more "inside" Dorian sound.

Make sense, or more confusing?


----------



## Solodini (Nov 8, 2013)

https://soundcloud.com/adamsatur/lydian-9-thang Bit rushed together and kinda awkward but you get the jist.


----------



## JustMac (Nov 8, 2013)

80H said:


> I am currently enjoying floating around in the gray area between advanced and pre-virtuoso



Whoah, that sounds epic! Are there any clips or vids of you playing? I'd kill to see your stuff


----------



## 80H (Nov 8, 2013)

JustMac said:


> Whoah, that sounds epic! Are there any clips or vids of you playing? I'd kill to see your stuff



Haha  Yes there will be soon, I cannot say how soon but it's definitely coming. I have about 30 minutes worth of material now, but unless you want a shitty laptop 144p video at 3 to 8 fps and audio recorded into an iphone3, then no it's not ready yet. I've been set back way too many times and don't even own an amp anymore currently (which sucks huge huge huge dicks), but all of the gears are turning, and once I get my living situation squared away I should have close to 24 (or more) finished instrumentals to work with + a meaty-ass book launch + video series + lots of other stuff I'm not 100% ready to talk about yet because it might give too much away. 

I am moving out in the next 2~3 months (or less!), and once that's done I can start putting my money back into things I enjoy again. Gonna be awesome. Thanks for asking though (` - `)b


----------



## 80H (Nov 8, 2013)

progman said:


> I agree with most of this. When I say advanced, it is kinda one of those "I don't know exactly what it is but I know it when I see (hear) it" kinda of things. What I really want is to improve on is:
> 
> 1. Increasing my speed and left/right coordination (alternate picking, legato)
> enough to...
> ...




1. Speed is mostly technique and cognition. If your pick can move as fast as you can think the note, you should be fine unless your accuracy is iffy. Accuracy training is tough because you reallllllly gotta get up under your brain's sense of punishment and reward and convince it to make accurate play the only acceptable option (at least in my personal experience). Tricky but doable. 

2. Tapping is easy: it's just muscle memory and finger strength until you get into complex tongue-twistery and multi-finger approaches. I like to hold my fingers to my morning coffee cup to get some heat into the tips as that helps build calluses a bit faster, but I also do it with the side of pans before they get too hot when I'm cooking something. Heat doesn't build calluses as fast as friction (in my experience), but too much friction tends to wear away my calluses, while heat just seems to mildly and gradually improve them. 

3. Tricks? Watch a few videos on sleight of hand and pay very close attention to steve vai's fingers on anything you can find that has a good shot of his hands. Don't just copy him though; try to figure out the underlying root of why what he's doing works and is musical and then try to apply it in your own way. Or you can just play with your teeth. 


4. If you learn how to memorize, you can easily learn any scale on the guitar within a week or so from the open strings to the final fret. Repetition and visually associating an imaginary letter (A# or Bb) with the visual location on a fretboard over and over and over again is the fastest way that I've found. It's tedious sometimes, but I know logically that after a couple of hours on the fretboard, I'm going to know exactly where every note is. I used this to learn every major key, harmonic minor, melodic minor and then a few odd scales (akebono, egyptian, hungarian minor....all of which I never use). This includes the modes of those scales, but I am admittedly rusty with those because I haven't been practicing them enough. 

This should help:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/happiness-in-world/200911/how-remember-things


----------



## progman (Nov 8, 2013)

Alright. So it seems like people consistently posting on this thread have a good idea what I am looking to do. I need to compile everything and come to some consensus (if possible) and then a plan of attack. Lets say I have 30-45 mins to work on technique (which leaves me with about 15-30 mins to write/rock out a day. What exactly should I be doing with my 30-45 mins. What would you do? I can worry about long term planning later. I need a short term aka "now" plan.


----------



## viesczy (Nov 8, 2013)

This @ 400 bmp! Now don't come back 'til you got it! 

Nathan Milstein - Perpetuum mobile - YouTube







Okay, listen to what Sir John has to say:

John McLaughlin's guitar lesson @ PRS part I - YouTube




BTW if I knew how to post them both as vids to just embed I would've.

Derek


----------



## Maniacal (Nov 9, 2013)

Solodini said:


> https://soundcloud.com/adamsatur/lydian-9-thang Bit rushed together and kinda awkward but you get the jist.



What was that demonstrating?


----------



## Solodini (Nov 9, 2013)

Requested Lydian #9 funtimes.


----------



## progman (Nov 10, 2013)

Alright. I know it is really basic stuff. But, I have been working on some very traditional Paul Gilbert alternate picking type stuff with the metronome. One other technique I have been working on is string skipping arpeggios. What do you guys think of them? I feel like they: 1) add a new little sets of "tricks" to my playing. 2) Works on string skip picking and 3) Works on hammer ons and pull offs.


----------



## Leveebreaks (Nov 10, 2013)

This thread is incredible, full of information I don't really understand but really want to. I'm at a similar stage to Progman so I'm bookmarking this bad boy for practise exercises. Good work shred dudes


----------



## thatguyupthere (Nov 12, 2013)

progman said:


> 1-2-3-4 up and down the neck
> 4-3-2-1 up and down
> 1-4-2-3 etc etc
> 
> .


yeah if you stay on the same 4 frets and do this on two strings like 
-----------4-3-2-1
---1-2-3-4---------1-2-3-4
it will help alot with rolling your fingers from string to string which is a must have when sweep picking


----------



## Dirtdog (Nov 12, 2013)

I did some theory type videos on you tube.
Take a gander. I am trying to explain them in a straightforward way. 
and its in video form so you can watch whenever.

Judd Oakes - YouTube

subscribe and you'll be the first to see new vids.
Just thought I'd throw it out there.
Thanks


----------

