# Thinking about an Iron Label - Are the quality issues still there?



## 777 (Feb 13, 2018)

Im thinking about grabbing this as a hardtail 6 to down-tune
https://www.thomann.de/ie/ibanez_rgaix6fm_tgf_iron_label.htm?ref=search_rslt_Ibanez+RGA_379207_5

Reading some reviews from 2015-2016 there seemed to be a multitude of quality issues with Iron label. Is this still the case? 

Used to playing my RG1527 the last 10 years.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 13, 2018)

They've gotten better this last year or so. Which means you're more likely to run into a good one now. 

With any guitar in a certain range, either try-before-you-buy or buy from a legitimate seller who either inspects/preps guitars for sale and/or provides a proper return policy. 

Anything Ibanez, regardless of the price, I recommend Rich at Ibanez Rules. While he doesn't stock everything he can order it.


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## Matt08642 (Feb 13, 2018)

I think you will be disappointed going from a prestige RG to an Iron Label, unless it's one of the ones without issues


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 13, 2018)

Matt08642 said:


> I think you will be disappointed going from a prestige RG to an Iron Label, unless it's one of the ones without issues



That's a pretty loaded statement.

A good Iron Label will be better than a bad Prestige.


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## Albake21 (Feb 13, 2018)

As someone who owns one (and is selling it lol), they are spotty. I've played some that felt pretty bad and exactly like a standard series, while I've played some (definitely including the one I own) that felt very close to a prestige, just with cheaper hardware. I'd say they are totally worth it if you get to try it out first and down the road upgrade the tuners. If mine doesn't sell I plan on just keeping it and completely modding it as I actually really love it for looks and feel. Especially for the price.


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## Metropolis (Feb 13, 2018)

I had one exactly same model. It felt pretty good playing wise, but it had other issues. Toolmarks in bindings, fret ends were not that good, when winter came and wood started to get dry fret ends popped out a little bit. Also dry winter climate made a small crack in the ebony fretboard between 15-17th fret. 3-piece maple/bubinga Wizard Nitro neck wasn't the most stable thing either, when compared to Prestige ones. Gotoh MG-T locking tuners were really nice, hardware is pretty solid in these.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Feb 13, 2018)

I bash on many an indo Ibanez.
I am one of the more vocal detractors of their 'Premium' brand heavy marketing.
I am a card carrying member of the 'Buy a used Prestige' crew.

However, I recently scooped up a secondhand RG921 (first gen Premium, indo built; also had a terrible reputation) for the price of a low~mid level standard series and I enjoy playing it more than my Prestige.
I don't remember if Premiums and Iron Labels shared a factory, and I'm certainly not stating that Premiums are definitely a good bet; I'm just saying that I had a good experience with an indo built Ibanez. So much so that I might actually put down my 'Prestige or Die' patch for a minute and pick up an S1070 brand new if they actually make it to production.
--
Conversely, I also bought (and flipped, cause I'm an asshole) an SIX20 about two years ago that had a trem that REFUSED to stay level, as well as a 3/4" crack in the fretboard. Toolmarks along the neck and what looked to be waterspot stains on the fretboard. Even though that was, again, secondhand, as far as my confirmation bias was concerned it was because it was an iron label.
Take from these anecdotes what you will.
Personally I think you should just buy the damn guitar because if you want it, unless it's a plank with strings, you'll probably gel with it enough to keep it around for a while.


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## Sogradde (Feb 13, 2018)

I'm going to be honest here. A friend bought the RGAIX7 and it felt pretty cheap. 
From a craftmanship point of view it was okay but it just doesn't feel right. The fake flame and fake mahogany certainly don't add to the perceived value.
My old MIK RG7321 on the other hand has always been a really solid guitar and well worth the price I paid. Ironically the RGIT20 I played in the shop felt so good that I actually consider buying one at some point. 

It boils down to personal preference I suppose but everything Premium and lower is "try before you buy" for me.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 13, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> I'm going to be honest here. A friend bought the RGAIX7 and it felt pretty cheap.
> From a craftmanship point of view it was okay but it just doesn't feel right. The fake flame and* fake mahogany* certainly don't add to the perceived value.
> My old MIK RG7321 on the other hand has always been a really solid guitar and well worth the price I paid. Ironically the RGIT20 I played in the shop felt so good that I actually consider buying one at some point.
> 
> It boils down to personal preference I suppose but everything Premium and lower is "try before you buy" for me.



Let's get this out of the way, if you've bought a production guitar under $2k with a "mahogany" body, there's a very good chance it was made out of one of a number of woods that is not technically Mahogany, as in not a member of the genus Swietenia. 

Real Mahogany woods are getting more and more rare and more and expensive and have been for decades.


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## Sogradde (Feb 13, 2018)

Fair point. However, it's still one of the lightest guitars I've ever laid hands on. Everyone who ever touches one of those guitars will immediately notice that it's not realy mahogany, why put in the effort and do that ridiculously bad, off-coloured stain job on the body?


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 13, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Fair point. However, it's still one of the lightest guitars I've ever laid hands on. Everyone who ever touches one of those guitars will immediately notice that it's not realy mahogany, why put in the effort and do that ridiculously bad, off-coloured stain job on the body?



Mahogany isn't all that heavy. Even the real stuff. Why do you think Gibson has to weight relief guitars so they feel like the old ones? 

Heavy mahogany is more often than not, cheaper "imitation" mahogany. 

If you get a chance, play a high end guitar made of mahogany. You'll probably be surprised how light they are. I have a Mahogany Suhr M6 that weighs just under seven pounds. Two piece center jointed with a maple neck.


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## Sogradde (Feb 13, 2018)

You're missing the point though. I never argued that mahogany is the densest material in existence, I said the guitar is too light for an actual mahogany guitar. Don't make me call my friend in the middle of the night to have him weigh the guitar, I dare you.


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## eightsixboy (Feb 13, 2018)

You'll be disappointed. I've seen some of the 2018 stuff and unless they just rushed the first batch for the Ibanez launch then they are not that great.

I looked at the RGIX6 as well the one with the fishmans pickups, very average build quality. The RGIX6 had wonky pickup install, dirty and crap all over the pickups and binding, heavy scratches and marks in the binding, flaws in the finish. I didn't even bother playing the fishman one but the guy at the store said it played like complete ass.

Also looked at the RGEW which seems to have replaced the premium RG721, same price somehow yet doesn't have any of the premium features. Was the same as the RGIX. Dirt and crap all over the pickups and binding, wonky misaligned pickup install, the "fake" mahogany as well.

If you have a 1527 then you will be very disappointed going to an iron label.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 13, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> You're missing the point though. I never argued that mahogany is the densest material in existence, I said the guitar is too light for an actual mahogany guitar. Don't make me call my friend in the middle of the night to have him weigh the guitar, I dare you.



Nah, wake him up. Have him get us pizza too.


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## eightsixboy (Feb 13, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> You're missing the point though. I never argued that mahogany is the densest material in existence, I said the guitar is too light for an actual mahogany guitar. Don't make me call my friend in the middle of the night to have him weigh the guitar, I dare you.



I don't know how Ibanez can get away with calling it mahogany when its not. I had a 7421 that was "mahogany" and it was as soft as basswood and felt very cheap.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 13, 2018)

eightsixboy said:


> I don't know how Ibanez can get away with calling it mahogany when its not. I had a 7421 that was "mahogany" and it was as soft as basswood and felt very cheap.



Because there is no such one thing as "mahogany". There are dozens of woods considered "genuine" mahogany and even more that are considered "trade" mahogany. 

Which is the point I was getting at.


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## Vyn (Feb 13, 2018)

I recently purchased the RGIX6DLB from a dealer down here (thread with pictures is in this fourm). It played well, the dealer had done some minor tweaking to it before it had gone to the showroom floor. I'm sending it into my local guitar tech because I have a gut feeling the 1st and 2nd frets will be a bit too high for the action I want but that was expected - really with any import guitar (by import I mean anything not made in Japan, UK/Europe, Australia or USA) you should be expecting about $50-$60 USD worth of set-up to address things like sharp edges or high spots on frets. I have had a few indo Ibanez's over the years and with a basic set-up/minor fretwork they play just as well as Prestige, if not better (depending on case/preferences).

Finish QC on the other hand is a different story. I lucked out with my RGIX6DLB in that the finish is superb but I've heard others have had mixed results. I think that's where high-end guitars tend to win out over imports, the QC on the finish is bloody good. You'll struggle to find a Prestige that left the factory with a shit finish.


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## eightsixboy (Feb 13, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Because there is no such one thing as "mahogany". There are dozens of woods considered "genuine" mahogany and even more that are considered "trade" mahogany.
> 
> Which is the point I was getting at.



So what mahogany are they using on Prestige's vs the cheaper lines?

I get what your saying, but its just very misleading because people assume mahogany means X when in reality they are getting Y.

They do across all the lines. You only have to look at the "maple tops" on the premiums to see they aren't good quality, but the general public don't know that, they just read "maple top" and ad perceived value.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 13, 2018)

eightsixboy said:


> So what mahogany are they using on Prestige's vs the cheaper lines?
> 
> I get what your saying, but its just very misleading because people assume mahogany means X when in reality they are getting Y.
> 
> They do across all the lines. You only have to look at the "maple tops" on the premiums to see they aren't good quality, but the general public don't know that, they just read "maple top" and ad perceived value.



Last I checked they were using "African Mahogany" on the MIJ stuff. Which is considered "genuine" mahogany even though it's not Swietenia. It's the same stuff Suhr offers as a free option before paying for the more expensive stuff. 

I agree about it being kind of bullshit, but it's an industry wide issue. As I said, unless you're paying a certain amount, you're rarely if ever getting "genuine" mahogany and never getting anything Swietenia.


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## AkiraSpectrum (Feb 13, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> They've gotten better this last year or so. Which means you're more likely to run into a good one now.
> 
> With any guitar in a certain range, either try-before-you-buy or buy from a legitimate seller who either inspects/preps guitars for sale and/or provides a proper return policy.
> 
> Anything Ibanez, regardless of the price, I recommend Rich at Ibanez Rules. While he doesn't stock everything he can order it.



This is the best advice you can get.

Most Standard and Iron Label Ibanez's are not worth the price, in my opinion. This is not to say that you can't get a good one, but its really a coin-flip. 

I've played some Standard series guitars that were worth every penny, but I've played many more that were a far cry from asking price. 

If it's an Ibanez that isn't Japanese, always try before you buy, or make sure you buy from a place with a good return policy. Technically, this advice should be followed for any instrument in any price range, but it's all the more important for lower-end guitars, especially from companies (like Ibanez) who are not great with QC.


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## A-Branger (Feb 13, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> why put in the effort and do that ridiculously bad, off-coloured stain job on the body?


one of my top complains (if not n1) about Ibanez.

just let the wood natural, look far better than that crap brown/red stain that has nothing to do with a black/white guitar theme. Or even better jsut stain it black!.... I have no idea whos in charge of colors in Ibanez but I do believe hes color blind or something, just have a look at the 2018 line with the weirdest burst choices ever


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 13, 2018)

always try before you buy with production guitars below 1500$ imo (or at least buy from a place that will do returns/exchanges). Ibby quality varies from guitar to guitar but especially with their low to midpriced tier of guitars. Some indos are pretty solid and others are about as good as a really cheap dean/epi (ie not good).


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## AdenM (Feb 13, 2018)

Yeah, with these Indo guitars, quality is just spotty. You have literally a 50-50 shot of getting a good one or a lemon. Def. see if there is a store near you that has one (or a couple) and try it in person. It's not just an Ibanez problem, but because all their sub $2k guitars are pretty much all made in either China or Indonesia, they're pretty strong representatives on that front. Sad, really, cause the Iron Labels really do look good now.

I would def. say look for used MiJ or even MiK standard series! Had some great luck with those.


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## A-Branger (Feb 13, 2018)

all the RGAs I have tried felt "ok", like with new strings and a proper settup they would be great. But I tried more recently the S iron label, the one with the bur/green burst, and felt great!, picked the black/grey RGA next to it and I was like "uhg"... So their quality can be hit or miss, jsut try them if you can.

I say theres nothing really wrong with them, jsut get them propertly settup and they should be fine. They arent a 4K instrument so bring down your expectations and you would be happy


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## Vyn (Feb 13, 2018)

A-Branger said:


> They arent a 4K instrument so bring down your expectations and you would be happy



This. So much this. I think a lot of people, especially here after playing/having access to some seriously high-end one-off customs or used gear that's been modded/set-up to a higher spec have had their perceptions distorted a bit when it comes to feel of something in a lower price bracket. Coming from a Blackmachine or something else on that level to an average Indo guitar is going to feel much, much worse than it actually is.

Little bit of a tangent, but also keep in mind inflation when looking at price which seems to be a big complaint of the Iron Label range - $1000US ten years ago is roughly $1200US now.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Feb 13, 2018)

Thankfully I've had better like with the Iron Labels, particularly the latter models. I've tried the multi-scale RGD (apparently Ibanez can't called these fanned frets anymore) and the purple RG, and both were much better than most of the models of yesteryear (or any Iron Label in the past actually). Prior to these, most of the Iron Labels were dead planks dressed with pretty specs. Granted they also had that gaudy abalone phase, which I'm glad Ibanez have since got over.

Also being mid priced imports, these are ideal for touring instruments to beat up. Have them set up well to last a run of dates, and you have solid guitars you won't feel so bad after a few dings or so.


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## eightsixboy (Feb 13, 2018)

A-Branger said:


> They arent a 4K instrument so bring down your expectations and you would be happy



I think that's the main issue most people have with them ie: price. When you can get a brand new 652/655/752 for about the same price or only a few hundred more, and that's with a case worth around $150-200, I really can't see where the value is in these 800-1000 USD iron labels. Am I wrong?

I just got a 655 last week for 1450 AUD which is just over 1k USD(stuffs more expensive over here yay), and that was after trying what 2018 indo stuff that the store had, most of it more expensive then the 655. The 655 and a 652 they also had blew everything out of the water in terms of overall fit/finish and out of the box playability, I could just take my 655 home and play it without having to spend extra on getting a level or worrying about fixing annoying issues.


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## Vyn (Feb 13, 2018)

eightsixboy said:


> I think that's the main issue most people have with them ie: price. When you can get a brand new 652/655/752 for about the same price or only a few hundred more, and that's with a case worth around $150-200, I really can't see where the value is in these 800-1000 USD iron labels. Am I wrong?
> 
> I just got a 655 last week for 1450 AUD which is just over 1k USD(stuffs more expensive over here yay), and that was after trying what 2018 indo stuff that the store had, most of it more expensive then the 655. The 655 and a 652 they also had blew everything out of the water in terms of overall fit/finish and out of the box playability, I could just take my 655 home and play it without having to spend extra on getting a level or worrying about fixing annoying issues.



Where the hell did you find a used 655 for $1450AUD? C'mon, spill, fellow Aussie here


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## A-Branger (Feb 13, 2018)

The store I used to go in Mooloolaba got the 655 at 1700-ish, but the others at 1300/1400$ they usually pretty good at Ibanez prices



eightsixboy said:


> I think that's the main issue most people have with them ie: price. When you can get a brand new 652/655/752 for about the same price or only a few hundred more, and that's with a case worth around $150-200, I really can't see where the value is in these 800-1000 USD iron labels. Am I wrong?



yeah fair enough, check it out and yeah those models are around 100-300$ price difference up/down with the Prestiges. Granted they are basic color finishes, vs wood "tops"( cough *veneers* cough) of hte iron lables, plus ebony/locking tunners blah blah. 

Depends on what you want, I usualyl go for visuals first, then start looking at specs. Not too fond of the prestiges in solid colors, reason why I never really GASed for any of those, but I did for the RGA iron label. Until I tried multiscale guitars, and now I cant even look at Ibanez anymore lol


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## TheUnknownOne (Feb 14, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Fair point. However, it's still one of the lightest guitars I've ever laid hands on. Everyone who ever touches one of those guitars will immediately notice that it's not realy mahogany, why put in the effort and do that ridiculously bad, off-coloured stain job on the body?



Played one coming from and old LTD MH400 MIK which weighs 14 pounds of real mahogany. From the moment I took the RGAIX in my hand, I felt something was seriously wrong


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## diagrammatiks (Feb 14, 2018)

There’s nothing wrong with nato. Just has a bad rep as fake mahogony. 

I love the stuff. No reason for electric guitars to be heavy.


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## TheUnknownOne (Feb 14, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> There’s nothing wrong with nato. Just has a bad rep as fake mahogony.
> 
> I love the stuff. No reason for electric guitars to be heavy.



The wrong thing is selling a 800/1000$ nato guitar while advertising it as true mahogany, that's it. If you want "quality" nato, just buy a 300 bucks VGS and call it a day. Ibanez is going down the wrong road doing this kind of stuff.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2018)

TheUnknownOne said:


> The wrong thing is selling a 800/1000$ nato guitar while advertising it as true mahogany, that's it. If you want "quality" nato, just buy a 300 bucks VGS and call it a day. Ibanez is going down the wrong road doing this kind of stuff.



That's the thing, everyone is using Nato and similar woods which are legally Mahogany, but aren't. 

You think those $800 Schecters and LTDs are actual Mahogany? Think again.


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## TheUnknownOne (Feb 14, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's the thing, everyone is using Nato and similar woods which are legally Mahogany, but aren't.
> 
> You think those $800 Schecters and LTDs are actual Mahogany? Think again.



Some Shecters and MIK LTDs I played felt really close to my friend's PRS Custom 24, so IMO it was definitely closer to what one would expect from a wood labeled as "mahogany" (loud resonance unplugged, wide low mids and singing highs, weight on the heavy side). 

That was not the case at all with those Iron Label guitars.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2018)

Mahogany substitutes run the gamut in weight and color, it's not really an indicator.


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## Sogradde (Feb 14, 2018)

In the end of the day, what matters is your judgement as the consumer. If you're happy with a guitar advertised as mahogany being lighter than a basswood guitar, that's fine by me and I wouldn't go as far as arguing that there is a direct correlation between weight and tone but there is a reason why car manufacturers spend millions and millions on people who do nothing but design a car for the optimal haptic perception of the consumer. 
People tend to attribute value to the weight of things and no matter whether it's a correct judgement or not, that's just how people work on a psychological level. Going out of their way by staining the "maybe mahogany" to make it look like its heavier bretheren is just a cheap way of making the guitar seem more valuable than it actually is. It's like the whole "veneer vs full top" issue.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> In the end of the day, what matters is your judgement as the consumer. If you're happy with a guitar advertised as mahogany being lighter than a basswood guitar, that's fine by me and I wouldn't go as far as arguing that there is a direct correlation between weight and tone but there is a reason why car manufacturers spend millions and millions on people who do nothing but design a car for the optimal haptic perception of the consumer.
> People tend to attribute value to the weight of things and no matter whether it's a correct judgement or not, that's just how people work on a psychological level. Going out of their way by staining the "maybe mahogany" to make it look like its heavier bretheren is just a cheap way of making the guitar seem more valuable than it actually is. It's like the whole "veneer vs full top" issue.



Come to think of it, the RGAIX7 isn't mahogany. 

It's Ash. 

So what were we talking about again?


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## Sogradde (Feb 14, 2018)

Semantics. There is an RGAIX7 model made of ash but OP specifically asked about the "mahogany + flame maple" variant.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2018)

Sogradde said:


> Semantics. There is an RGAIX7 model made of ash but OP specifically asked about the "mahogany + flame maple" variant.



But which one did your friend have? The one you've been saying is super light?

From this post:


Sogradde said:


> I'm going to be honest here. A friend bought the RGAIX7 and it felt pretty cheap.
> From a craftmanship point of view it was okay but it just doesn't feel right. The fake flame and fake mahogany certainly don't add to the perceived value.
> My old MIK RG7321 on the other hand has always been a really solid guitar and well worth the price I paid. Ironically the RGIT20 I played in the shop felt so good that I actually consider buying one at some point.
> 
> It boils down to personal preference I suppose but everything Premium and lower is "try before you buy" for me.


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## Sogradde (Feb 14, 2018)

The 7-string version of the one that OP linked. 
That reminds me, I wanted to ask how much his guitar weighs.


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## diagrammatiks (Feb 14, 2018)

I mean they've been calling mahogany substitutes mahogany for years and no one has really stopped them. There has got to be a reason why they are allowed to do it. 

It's a marketing shortcut and lot's of companies decided to do it. It's probably not the best long term strategy. Interspecies wood grading is mostly bullshit marketing anyway. There could have just as easily spent time raising the prestige of nato. Basswood gets a bad rap but people are willing to pay 3k for a basswood guitar.

Grading within a wood species isn't that difficult though. There's not a lot of light mahogany left. Even the Gibson Historics have been creeping up in weight over the last few years.

You're not going to get the same weight grade of mahogany in a indo or korean guitar as a PRS core if they used the exact same species.

Who the hell wants a 14 pound guitar anymore.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> I mean they've been calling mahogany substitutes mahogany for years and no one has really stopped them. There has got to be a reason why they are allowed to do it.
> 
> It's a marketing shortcut and lot's of companies decided to do it. It's probably not the best long term strategy. Interspecies wood grading is mostly bullshit marketing anyway. There could have just as easily spent time raising the prestige of nato. Basswood gets a bad rap but people are willing to pay 3k for a basswood guitar.
> 
> ...



Grading wood was never about "tone", it's always been about figure and rarity. Weight isn't as much of a factor outside of some species within a given genus being inherently lighter. 

But builders will co-opt anything to try and add perceived value. 

Mahogany isn't better because it's lighter, it's just the lighter species tend to be the rarer and more valuable variety that's being used less and less.


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## diagrammatiks (Feb 14, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Grading wood was never about "tone", it's always been about figure and rarity. Weight isn't as much of a factor outside of some species within a given genus being inherently lighter.
> 
> But builders will co-opt anything to try and add perceived value.
> 
> Mahogany isn't better because it's lighter, it's just the lighter species tend to be the rarer and more valuable variety that's being used less and less.



Right but if its not about tone why choose a heavier guitar. That's all I'm saying. 

You'd clearly want to use the lighter cuts first.

On topic...I think those RGAiXs are terrible values. I bought an RGIDX7 to keep at my inlaws...but I bought it store demo on sale for 499. Those things are 999 new...ehhhh

Comparatively I think the entire Schecter line-up is far better value. The guitars are a bit more expensive but...

KM7 MKII - name brand pickups, neck through, pretty good QC. 150 more
The new SLS series - neck through, fisherman fluences 250 more.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> Right but if its not about tone why choose a heavier guitar. That's all I'm saying.
> 
> You'd clearly want to use the lighter cuts first.
> 
> ...



I agree with pretty much everything you're saying. 

The non-MIJ Ibanez lineup is pretty "meh" at the moment. I wouldn't buy an Iron Label now with how affordable the MIJ stuff is right now.


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## diagrammatiks (Feb 14, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I agree with pretty much everything you're saying.
> 
> The non-MIJ Ibanez lineup is pretty "meh" at the moment. I wouldn't buy an Iron Label now with how affordable the MIJ stuff is right now.



Tom lee in hong kong last year had the 
RGAIXU on sale for 750 usd
RGAix6FMT for 599 usd.

I think at these prices..these guitars become competitive and a good deal. The current pricing is just silly...especially if your online store or anything gives you a side by side and you look at something like the KM7 MKII right next to the rgaix. 

although this looks pretty good https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RGAIX6MQMSRB

I'd still rather spend more and get the km7 though.


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## Albake21 (Feb 14, 2018)

I agree with everyone here. I think they are worth it at a used price. But I've played both the Iron Label RGAs and RGDs... They are absolutely not worth the price they ask new. Now for the used prices I've seen them at, I'd say they are definitely worth it.

Also maybe I'm a bit biased, but Schecter has absolutely blown me away with their products the past couple years. For the money, they are absolutely fantastic and can even rival some American stuff in my experience.


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## spork141 (Feb 14, 2018)

Maybe im an outsider here but..I like the iron label series. I like the options. I like the ascetics. I like the price. And the part is, that they are widely available to play and examine in your local guitar store. So don't be worried about quality issues. Go play one and see how it is. 

Everyone has different reasons for wanting one guitar over another. So simply saying "for that price you could buy......" wont always work unless that other guitar looks the same, has the same hardware, bridge, options, etc. I feel like every "should I buy this guitar" convo goes down this same route.


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## Metropolis (Feb 14, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> On topic...I think those RGAiXs are terrible values. I bought an RGIDX7 to keep at my inlaws...but I bought it store demo on sale for 499. Those things are 999 new...ehhhh
> 
> Comparatively I think the entire Schecter line-up is far better value. The guitars are a bit more expensive but...
> 
> ...



In Europe RGAIX7FM is 899€ and KM7 MKII is something like 1400€, there is 500€/600$ of difference between those two. That is price as new, and it may vary because different amount of taxes, but Schecter is really expensive in EU.


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## Albake21 (Feb 14, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> In Europe RGAIX7FM is 899€ and KM7 MKII is something like 1400€, there is 500€/600$ of difference between those two. That is price as new, and it may vary because different amount of taxes, but Schecter is really expensive in EU.


If you go used though, you can find a KM7 for very cheap which rivals any of these more expensive Iron Labels.


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## diagrammatiks (Feb 14, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> In Europe RGAIX7FM is 899€ and KM7 MKII is something like 1400€, there is 500€/600$ of difference between those two. That is price as new, and it may vary because different amount of taxes, but Schecter is really expensive in EU.



that's so sad.


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## Metropolis (Feb 14, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> If you go used though, you can find a KM7 for very cheap which rivals any of these more expensive Iron Labels.



Yes of course, used KM7 MKI is in range of 800 euro's.


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## MatiasTolkki (Feb 14, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> Basswood gets a bad rap but people are willing to pay 3k for a basswood guitar..



People like Jeff Kiesel constantly saying it's cheap and dings easily blah blah blah. I've got basswood guitars that are more resonant that any of his stuff.


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## Lukhas (Feb 14, 2018)

Metropolis said:


> In Europe RGAIX7FM is 899€ and KM7 MKII is something like 1400€, there is 500€/600$ of difference between those two. That is price as new, and it may vary because different amount of taxes, but Schecter is really expensive in EU.


Schecter is distributed by High Tech Music, who also are the distributors of Ernie Ball/MusicMan among others. So now you also know why MusicMan are that expensive. That doesn't explain Mesa/BOOGIE prices however. 







That said, I'd rather take any 1200€ Banshee, even without a bag or case over any Indo Ibanez I've ever played whether they were Standard, Premium or Iron Label. The QC is not even close. If at least the Indo Ibanez didn't almost always require a fret job right out of the factory they'd be killer for the amount of features/appointments they have, but alas under a certain price you apparently cannot have both. To be honest, I'd even take a Jackson X Series Soloist over any Standard Ibanez just because the few I've tried actually had something close to a setup and no obvious issues, but can't talk for the whole lot of X series.


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## 777 (Feb 14, 2018)

Please close this thread. Turned into a load of people arguing about mahogany. 

Thanks for those of you who actually answered my question. I think I have my answer.


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## Andromalia (Feb 14, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> If you get a chance, play a high end guitar made of mahogany. You'll probably be surprised how light they are. I have a Mahogany Suhr M6 that weighs just under seven pounds. Two piece center jointed with a maple neck.



My CS soloist is a boat anchor. It's the second heaviest guitar I own, the haviest being a DTT 700. I suppose even in "real" mahogany you have species more dense than others.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2018)

Andromalia said:


> My CS soloist is a boat anchor. It's the second heaviest guitar I own, the haviest being a DTT 700. I suppose even in "real" mahogany you have species more dense than others.



Does your Soloist have a Mahogany neck? Most of that weight is probably coming from the maple neck-through otherwise.


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## Albake21 (Feb 14, 2018)

777 said:


> Please close this thread. Turned into a load of people arguing about mahogany.
> 
> Thanks for those of you who actually answered my question. I think I have my answer.


I'd just unwatch at this point.


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## diagrammatiks (Feb 14, 2018)

777 said:


> Please close this thread. Turned into a load of people arguing about mahogany.
> 
> Thanks for those of you who actually answered my question. I think I have my answer.



ya man your euro prices are wack. If you like the specs go for it. Thomann should have a decent return policy.

personally i'd save a few bucks and just grab the rgat62 since you are getting a hardtail six anyway. and neckthrough is best.


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## iamaom (Feb 14, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> Right but if its not about tone why choose a heavier guitar. That's all I'm saying.


I've held basswood guitars that make me uneasy playing them standing up. I do like a bit of heft to a guitar so that it rests in my hands and gives me a bit of feedback. Same reason some people prefer heavier bowling balls or drumsticks.


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## nyxzz (Feb 14, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Mahogany isn't all that heavy. Even the real stuff. Why do you think Gibson has to weight relief guitars so they feel like the old ones?
> 
> Heavy mahogany is more often than not, cheaper "imitation" mahogany.
> 
> If you get a chance, play a high end guitar made of mahogany. You'll probably be surprised how light they are. I have a Mahogany Suhr M6 that weighs just under seven pounds. Two piece center jointed with a maple neck.



My Gibson Explorer was one of my lightest guitars I ever owned, which shocked me at the time.


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## diagrammatiks (Feb 14, 2018)

nyxzz said:


> My Gibson Explorer was one of my lightest guitars I ever owned, which shocked me at the time.



It's a myth and a bit of crack smoking that all the good gibsons were heavy. 
I've held a bunch of the slab body 59 lp specials. Super light. There's a catalog of existing 1959-1962 les pauls and the weights of the reissues. 9 pounds at max. Some are as low as 7.5


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Feb 14, 2018)

I went the opposite direction. Rather than upgrading from my RG7620, I just bought a Perle FR-7 body & I'm having it custom finished. In doing so, I'm dumping the Dimarzio EVO-7 & Blaze neck to the EMG 57/66 7H set.
While it may not be a product series upgrade, it is a new body & electronics. The neck is in great shape, and so is the Edge Lo-Pro 7.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 14, 2018)

diagrammatiks said:


> It's a myth and a bit of crack smoking that all the good gibsons were heavy.
> I've held a bunch of the slab body 59 lp specials. Super light. There's a catalog of existing 1959-1962 les pauls and the weights of the reissues. 9 pounds at max. Some are as low as 7.5



The maple carved tops is what makes them so heavy. 

That's why those 70's and 80's LPCs are so damn heavy, maple tops and necks.


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## diagrammatiks (Feb 14, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> The maple carved tops is what makes them so heavy.
> 
> That's why those 70's and 80's LPCs are so damn heavy, maple tops and necks.



ya that stuff is heavy as crap. there's a range there too though. The 70s and 80s lps were definitely heavier by a pound or two across the board.


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## eightsixboy (Feb 14, 2018)

Vyn said:


> Where the hell did you find a used 655 for $1450AUD? C'mon, spill, fellow Aussie here



At a store in Vic. Wasn't used either, brand new. Its not on the aussie catalog anymore so the store wanted to get rid of it to clear room for the 2018 indo stuff that had arrived. I actually just sold it today as I only bought it on a wim because it was a good deal but I have to many 6 string guitars lol, but most stores would sell the 655m for around $1600 anyway if you push hard enough, that's about 30% of retail. 

Now is actually a great time to buy an leftover 2017 stuff as stores will want to get the 2018 stuff on the wall and people don't seem to be buying. Most stores I've been to this year still have the same guitars from 6 months ago gathering dust.


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## couverdure (Feb 15, 2018)

Maybe it's because I live in the opposite side of the world (my timezone is GMT+8, so I'm always ahead of almost everyone by half a day), but most LTDs and Jacksons I've tried in stores don't particularly wow me as much and feel rather cheap compared to most Ibanez I've tried. I believe the factor here is that the distributors for those two brands have more (and bigger) branches than the distributor for Ibanez here, and there are even fewer ones that have Schecter and they usually only stock a few models which cost a lot. I'm very sure that stores play a huge part on the prices.


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## gnoll (Feb 16, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Last I checked they were using "African Mahogany" on the MIJ stuff. Which is considered "genuine" mahogany even though it's not Swietenia. It's the same stuff Suhr offers as a free option before paying for the more expensive stuff.
> 
> I agree about it being kind of bullshit, but it's an industry wide issue. As I said, unless you're paying a certain amount, you're rarely if ever getting "genuine" mahogany and never getting anything Swietenia.



Actually I believe this isn't entirely correct.

"Genuine" mahogany should be of the genus _Swietenia_. And it would be of the species _S. macrophylla_, Honduran mahogany. Not necessarily from Honduras though, probably more likely to have been grown in a plantation. Out of the other _Swietenia_ species, _S. mahagoni_ is hardly a thing anymore and _S. humilis_ has small trees not really suitable for making guitars out of.

African mahogany refers to the _Khaya_ genus, which is the closest substitute to _Swietenia_. I think _Khaya_ is sometimes referred to as "true" mahogany, whereas "genuine" should be reserved for _Swietenia_.

After that there are a number of other species which are together with _Swietenia_ and _Khaya_ in the _Meliaceae_ (mahogany) family. These include for example sipo, sapele and Spanish cedar.

So yes, "mahogany" doesn't necessarily say much if you're interested in the actual species of wood.

Personally if I could choose the wood for my mahogany electric guitar, I'd rather choose a wood that wasn't nearly depleted. Biodiversity is pretty important really and I wish guitarists and manufacturers would be more open to using more sustainable alternatives. They might even sound better. Just because something is rare and expensive doesn't mean it's better, it just means it's been overharvested.


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## Petar Bogdanov (Feb 17, 2018)

gnoll said:


> Actually I believe this isn't entirely correct.
> 
> "Genuine" mahogany should be of the genus _Swietenia_. And it would be of the species _S. macrophylla_, Honduran mahogany. Not necessarily from Honduras though, probably more likely to have been grown in a plantation. Out of the other _Swietenia_ species, _S. mahagoni_ is hardly a thing anymore and _S. humilis_ has small trees not really suitable for making guitars out of.
> 
> ...



No way man. I'm sure someone sampled every species of dense wood in the 1940s, dried it all properly, and made thousands of guitars, one of each species. They decided that Honduran Mahogany is the best wood to make a Les Paul, because that's how connected the world already was, and they had tens of millions to conduct research with.


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## auxioluck (Feb 19, 2018)

I know I'm late to the thread here, but I picked up an Iron Label 8 in December of 2016. Honestly, I enjoy it more after a year of tweaking it and setting it up, but I've definitely had to put some time into it.

First time I restrung it, the nut completely fell off. Fret edges were somewhat jagged when I got it, then from living in southern CA, the dry air made the fret edges unbearable after a couple weeks. I still have to grab a file every few months when the fretboard shrinks a little more. The finish on the back of the neck isn't really consistent, especially over the walnut strips. There are now spots on the binding that I can tell are starting to peel up. Not sure if it's the bridge or tuners, but constantly have had a hell of a time with the G string tuning correctly (more than the usual G string issues). Gonna have to check the intonation again as well.

Me personally, I'm apprehensive to pick up another Iron Label. Honestly, because of all the issues I've had, and my continued inability to commit to an 8, I've just gone back to my RGD7 as my main. The 8 is sitting in its case in the closet. Strange, it plays great now that I've put the time into it, but my interest in it just isn't there anymore.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 19, 2018)

Prestige models have come so far down in price and there are enough options that really there's little reason, in 2018, to buy an Iron Label. 

Heck, I'd probably recommend a Standard series model over an Iron Label as they too are also really cheap for what you get.


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## auxioluck (Feb 19, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Prestige models have come so far down in price and there are enough options that really there's little reason, in 2018, to buy an Iron Label.
> 
> Heck, I'd probably recommend a Standard series model over an Iron Label as they too are also really cheap for what you get.



Honestly, I agree with this 100%. My RG2EX1 that I got for $200 and threw a D-Sonic and Air Norton into is still kicking perfectly after about 10 years.


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## Albake21 (Feb 19, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Prestige models have come so far down in price and there are enough options that really there's little reason, in 2018, to buy an Iron Label.
> 
> Heck, I'd probably recommend a Standard series model over an Iron Label as they too are also really cheap for what you get.


I don't know if I'd say this. Iron Label's definitely feel better and have actual pickups with MUCH better hardware than the standard series. Personally I won't recommend an Ibanez standard series to anyone unless they are just starting out. They feel absolutely awful to me, but I guess you get what you pay for.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 19, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> I don't know if I'd say this. Iron Label's definitely feel better and have actual pickups with MUCH better hardware than the standard series. Personally I won't recommend an Ibanez standard series to anyone unless they are just starting out. They feel absolutely awful to me, but I guess you get what you pay for.



It's not like they're getting Gotoh trems, they use the Edge Zero II which is made in the same facility as the standard trem. Tuners don't really matter, as far as tuning stability goes. 

With the savings in price between IR and Standard you can get whatever pickups you want. 

The Iron Label models are meant to be pretty and have pretty spec sheets, the quality of the actual guitars isn't that much better than a Standard.

I stand by what I said. Go for MIJ first, then flip a coin on any of the sub-series stuff. Between Standard, Iron Label and Premium you pretty much are flipping a coin.


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## auxioluck (Feb 19, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> I don't know if I'd say this. Iron Label's definitely feel better and have actual pickups with MUCH better hardware than the standard series. Personally I won't recommend an Ibanez standard series to anyone unless they are just starting out. They feel absolutely awful to me, but I guess you get what you pay for.



Dang it, I agree with this too. I sit somewhere in the middle. I'll only buy a standard model with the understanding that I'm going to want to replace the pickups at the very least. If I wanted a decent price point with the probability that the upgrades would be minimal, I'd look at Iron Labels again. But at that point, I'd probably save the extra few hundred bucks and just look at a Prestige. The price points are just too close. If the IL's came down by around $400 or so, I think that'd be a more accurate value of the quality. Honestly, I haven't played a standard model in almost 10 years, so I'm not sure what the quality is like now. It used to be that you could find a gem if you got your hands on enough of them.


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## Albake21 (Feb 19, 2018)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I stand by what I said. Go for MIJ first, then flip a coin on any of the sub-series stuff. Between Standard, Iron Label and Premium you pretty much are flipping a coin.



Definitely agree with this though. The prestige is without question worth it over the standard or iron labels. Plus the whole flipping the coin thing is very accurate and another reason to not even bother with standard or IL.


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## goobaba (Feb 20, 2018)

eightsixboy said:


> At a store in Vic. Wasn't used either, brand new. Its not on the aussie catalog anymore so the store wanted to get rid of it to clear room for the 2018 indo stuff that had arrived. I actually just sold it today as I only bought it on a wim because it was a good deal but I have to many 6 string guitars lol, but most stores would sell the 655m for around $1600 anyway if you push hard enough, that's about 30% of retail.
> 
> Now is actually a great time to buy an leftover 2017 stuff as stores will want to get the 2018 stuff on the wall and people don't seem to be buying. Most stores I've been to this year still have the same guitars from 6 months ago gathering dust.



Wow that is rough compared to US prices! I regularly see used ones for $800


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## eightsixboy (Feb 20, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> I don't know if I'd say this. Iron Label's definitely feel better and have actual pickups with MUCH better hardware than the standard series. Personally I won't recommend an Ibanez standard series to anyone unless they are just starting out. They feel absolutely awful to me, but I guess you get what you pay for.



The difference doesn't warrant the price hike imo. Its really just the tuners and the pickups that are the main difference between standards and iron labels, and maybe a veneer.

I had a 421AHM last year that was damn awesome after some locking gotoh tuners, dimarzio's and a proper fret level and set up. You'd still be saving at least 400 usd even after modding.

Another problem is that crappy edge II they keep putting on everything, that should only be on the low end stuff, not guitars over 1k. Every Ibanez I have owned or played with that trem has had sustain issues.


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## MatiasTolkki (Feb 21, 2018)

eightsixboy said:


> The difference doesn't warrant the price hike imo. Its really just the tuners and the pickups that are the main difference between standards and iron labels, and maybe a veneer.
> 
> I had a 421AHM last year that was damn awesome after some locking gotoh tuners, dimarzio's and a proper fret level and set up. You'd still be saving at least 400 usd even after modding.
> 
> Another problem is that crappy edge II they keep putting on everything, that should only be on the low end stuff, not guitars over 1k. Every Ibanez I have owned or played with that trem has had sustain issues.



Edge ZERO II, there was a horrible Edge II before the Edge III was released.


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## eightsixboy (Feb 21, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Edge ZERO II, there was a horrible Edge II before the Edge III was released.



That's what I meant, whatever trem comes on all the premiums and standards.

Just look at the RG6PFGMLTD, retails for well over 2k over here yet still has a cheap trem found on the standards.


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## possumkiller (Feb 21, 2018)

I've been saying the same thing for ages. The IL series is aimed at the people who want to upgrade from a standard but never played a really high quality instrument. They see the specs and are sold on it. The quality of craftsmanship doesn't even come into play because the only thing they have experience with are other low end guitars. 

The standard models have the same veneers, Gibraltar bridges, EZ2 trems, cheap construction and wiring. The IL series adds a set of name brand pickups and tuners then hikes the price up to $1k or more. 

Just buy a standard series and put your choice of pickups and tuners. 

I should totally start an Ibanez version of 920d custom shop. I'll buy cheap standard models. Install Fishmans, Evertunes and Hipshots then sell them on eBay for $1600...


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## aneurysm (Feb 22, 2018)

I bought myself an Ibanez RGDIX6pb which has the the long Scale and Ebony Fretboard. It´s a 2017 Model and so far i really like it.
Frets on mine are pretty good as well as the whole Craftmanship. I don´t really care if the Guitar has some minor Scuffs on the Body.
The Neck and Frets are the most important Factor to me.
Now for the Weight and there i think lies the whole Problem with all those Import Guitars from Asia.
I also have a Schecter ( Kenny Hickey ) and both are to light for my Taste.
I tend to think that heavey Guitars have more of a fater, controlled Tone. I have 2 Gibson Explorers and one PRS Standard and the sound way more woodier then either my Schecter and Ibanez.


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## MatiasTolkki (Feb 22, 2018)

Japan is part of Asia. Rephrase that comment. You're sounding like Jeff Kiesel, knock that off.


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## aneurysm (Feb 22, 2018)

Yep, you´re right. I mean all that Guitars that are made in Indonesia, China, Korea.
I don´t think these are bad Guitars at all. My Ibanez has better Fretwork than my Gibson Les Paul Tribute.
But when it comes to overall Tone, you´ll notice a Difference .


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## MatiasTolkki (Feb 22, 2018)

aneurysm said:


> Yep, you´re right. I mean all that Guitars that are made in Indonesia, China, Korea.
> I don´t think these are bad Guitars at all. My Ibanez has better Fretwork than my Gibson Les Paul Tribute.
> But when it comes to overall Tone, you´ll notice a Difference .



I had an indonesian RG350EXZ a long time ago. It played well enough but dimarzio Evos in that thing were shrill as hell. It was a pretty heavy guitar too; my current ibbies are all lighter than that was, and all of them sound great. My rgr580 is really light for a mahogany body but it sounds great nonetheless.


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## Sogradde (Feb 22, 2018)

MatiasTolkki said:


> Japan is part of Asia. Rephrase that comment. You're sounding like Jeff Kiesel, knock that off.


Lay off that salt m8, he just stated his opinion on the weight of his guitars. Who are you to tell him how to talk?
Also, Japanese guitars are import guitars outside of Japan, by definition.


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