# Solid state head for brutal death metal



## groph (Dec 9, 2009)

I know this is ultimately up to me trying out what I can and getting what I like in the end, but why not have a discussion. Forget that I own a Randall RM100, I'm not looking for suggestions with that amp in this thread.

In my tone chase, I've been noticing that I can't hold tube amps over solid state amps, for what I play. I (attempt to) play stuff like Deeds of Flesh, Disgorge, Suffocation, Defeated Sanity, older Cannibal Corpse, all those sorts of death metal. Not stuff like Whitechapel, Carnifex, Suicide Silence, or anything else considered deathcore. Not knocking on the genre, I just don't play it and I'm not looking for an amp that will give me that "kind" of tone. There's also a differentiation between "brutal death metal" and "death metal." It's kind of redundant, but brutal death is generally more rhythm oriented. Suffocation and Deeds of Flesh are my ideals of the brutal death metal sound.

I'm looking for something that will do an intentionally disgusting tone that suits brutal death metal well. Something fairly compressed sounding, lots of gain, really tight, a scooped voicing (face it, a lot of death metal has the super-scoop and it sounds brutal), and a sort of dark tone, not overly dark, but I've never really been big into bright tones. I guess I want it to be fat sounding (fat as far as solid states go) with a grindy attack. The grindy attack is key.

I'd prefer a solid state amp because of the lack of dynamics and for the increased tightness, as well as the inherently rougher, grindier tone. Wattage-wise, at least 100.

Price-wise, obviously I would like to keep it as low as humanly possible. I'm looking for an amp that does one tone only, and it's a tone that isn't generally recognized as a "good" one, so I don't see why I should have to shell out any more than $300 on an amp.

Here's what I've tried already

Line 6 Insane - on amps like the Spider, POD, etc. I like the compression and amount of gain, it'd be a perfect tone if it didn't have a certain quality to it that I can't describe... Might be the digitalness, I dunno. There seems to be a sort of hollow sounding hiss to it that I don't like.

Randall RH150G2 - Loved this one, super tight, cold voicing, aggressive. Still, seemed like more of a general metal tone. It was sort of too razor-like, not "fat" enough I guess.

Marshall MG100 - Garbage

Ibanez TBX150H - Only tried it for a minute or two, but this one showed serious promise. Gain monster, sounded ugly in a good way.

I'd also be willing to try pre/power amp setups, but the price must be low, and I'd prefer to stick to solid state.

I'd love to try an Ampeg VH140C or the Crate GT3500H, but alas both are out of production. I've only seen a Marshall 8100 once, it was super cheap too. I'm kicking myself for not trying it out.


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## Daemoniac (Dec 9, 2009)

Maybe try and find a Randall Cyclone? I know these things got a bit of a rough rep, but Randall solid state tone + 9 band graphic EQ, i can't see a problem


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## highlordmugfug (Dec 9, 2009)

As soon as I saw this I was going to recommend the GT3500. I just got mine about a week or so ago, it is AWESOME for the scooped death metal tone. I got mine used for $199.99+tax.
Used Crate GT3500H Shockwave Amp Head-knob damage - Used Guitar Amps - Used Guitars & Amps - Used Instruments - Jim Laabs Music: The Midwest's Largest Music Store - Musical Instruments and Musical Equipment - Music Instrument Store 
There's one for just out of your price range. It's 350W @ 2ohm, [email protected], and I was told by cCrate 150W @ 8ohm.
EDIT: OH, and at this musicgoround


9192 West 159th Street
Orland Park, IL 60462 708-873-9030
[email protected] 
Map - Hours


They had one for 239.99 (about that though that might have been including shipping to me in KY). I ordered it but my money order got returned to me in the mail and I found one that I could go pick up so I got that instead. You could call them and see if they still have it (I never recalled them to tell them that I found another one because I called a few times to see if they had gotten the money order and they, to me, sounded rude even though I only called 3 times, each almost a week apart, SO, they may still be holding it for me but if that's the case I can give them a call and set em straight if you want this one) .


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## Marlon (Dec 9, 2009)

If you want old Cannibal Corps death metal then you want he Marshall Valvestate 8100. That is what they used.

The are bright amps, but they are super thick. And cheap.

My guitarist uses one, and I went out and bought one too. It is cheap and light and (at the very least) makes are good back up head to gig with.


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## TomAwesome (Dec 9, 2009)

Maybe look into the Peavey XXL or Supreme 150, though the 8100 is pretty neat.


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## highlordmugfug (Dec 9, 2009)

Marlon said:


> If you want old Cannibal Corps death metal then you want he Marshall Valvestate 8100. That is what they used.
> 
> The are bright amps, but they are super thick. And cheap.
> 
> My guitarist uses one, and I went out and bought one too. It is cheap and light and (at the very least) makes are good back up head to gig with.


One of the guitarists (I forget which one, I think it was Pat) used a Crate gx130c head for a while as well.


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## Necky379 (Dec 9, 2009)

highlordmugfug said:


> As soon as I saw this I was going to recommend the GT3500. I just got mine about a week or so ago, it is AWESOME for the scooped death metal tone. I got mine used for $199.99+tax.
> Used Crate GT3500H Shockwave Amp Head-knob damage - Used Guitar Amps - Used Guitars & Amps - Used Instruments - Jim Laabs Music: The Midwest's Largest Music Store - Musical Instruments and Musical Equipment - Music Instrument Store
> There's one for just out of your price range. It's 350W @ 2ohm, [email protected], and I was told by cCrate 150W @ 8ohm.



hahaha cant believe you beat me to it: Crate GT3500W 350W Guiar Head Ampilfier Amp 3 Channel - eBay (item 370304437087 end time Jan-08-10 12:52:05 PST)

also found this one, personally i like the gt3500w better though:
Crate GX900H Amp Head 90W-3CH-REV-FS NEW - eBay (item 360215970240 end time Jan-07-10 12:50:39 PST)


+ an eq pedal in the effects loop and some gt12t-75's should the trick


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## groph (Dec 9, 2009)

Yeah. CC used the Stealth on some of the old stuff, I think. My favorite old Corpse tone is definitely off of The Bleeding. That's a good death scoop right there.

Tom, I've heard numerous good things about the Peavey XXL. A friend of mine has the Supreme, but I don't know if it's a real death metal type of tone or not, maybe. This friend of mine can't dial an amp in to save his life though, and he has that horrid Behringer cab that makes anything sound terrible.


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## Necrophagist777 (Dec 9, 2009)

Ampeg VH140C. Suffocation used to use them. Dying Fetus still does. Best Solid State head in existence IMO. Br00tal gain and Jazz Chorus like cleans.

You will find them all over the web used, and usually under 400 bucks. Can't go wrong with them. I'm tempted to pick one up and run it in stereo with my XXX.


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## boltzthrower (Dec 9, 2009)

I'll sell you my Rocktron mAXE for $80 USD, but it might have that hollow sounding hiss to it that you were describing with Line6, but that's how all SS sounds IMO. It has uber f'ing SS gain. You'll need a power amp of course. 

I'm assuming you've tried the Ultra module with your RM100. Have you tried using, say, a 30 band equalizer with it? Have you tried a lower rated cap in the C3 position?


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## highlordmugfug (Dec 9, 2009)

I was thinking that the GX130C is what they used on the bleeding and these back me up on that.
UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com - Guitar For Death Metal
Post #18

Ampeg VH140c or Crate GX130c differences. [Archive] - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums
Just some general info on the GT3500, gx130c, and the ampeg VH140c

Crate GX130C - Cannibal Corpse played this model - WOW! [Archive] - Harmony Central Musician Community Forums

But even though me (and some other people) think that they used the GX130C on The Bleeding (love that album as well) I've read lots of reviews of people saying that the GT3500 is better than th GX130C and that the VH140C is better than both of them. I've only played the GT3500 though, so all I can say comparison wise is what I've heard.

Scott Hull has used the GT3500 in Pig Destroyer (biamped with something else I think, dual recto maybe?). So: 
The Bleeding=GX130C (CC)
Terrifier=GT3500 (PD)
Pierced from within=VH140C (suffocation)

Sorry for being so long winded.


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## Daemoniac (Dec 9, 2009)

I'm also going to throw the Randall V2/V.Max suggestion...

Yes, it has tubes for part of it, but it's SS channel is absolutely fucking _stunning_. When I had my VMAX I actually ended up using the SS channel a large portion more than the tube channel, and the amount of tweakability the amp gives you on-board is awesome as well.

Definitely try one, i think. Unless it's way over budget. In which case i'm sorry


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## groph (Dec 9, 2009)

Necrophagist777 said:


> Ampeg VH140C. Suffocation used to use them. Dying Fetus still does. Best Solid State head in existence IMO. Br00tal gain and Jazz Chorus like cleans.
> 
> You will find them all over the web used, and usually under 400 bucks. Can't go wrong with them. I'm tempted to pick one up and run it in stereo with my XXX.


 
I would MURDER someone to try one of these. Nothing has ever sounded like vomit and good at the same time like these amps have. These are pretty much the epitome of death metal tone.



boltzthrower said:


> I'll sell you my Rocktron mAXE for $80 USD, but it might have that hollow sounding hiss to it that you were describing with Line6, but that's how all SS sounds IMO. It has uber f'ing SS gain. You'll need a power amp of course.
> 
> I'm assuming you've tried the Ultra module with your RM100. Have you tried using, say, a 30 band equalizer with it? Have you tried a lower rated cap in the C3 position?


 
Yeah, the Ultra module is what I use. I've used a 10 band EQ and wasn't all that impressed, I can't really see 30 bands simplifying things, I really prefer setups to be as effects processor free as possible. I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to this lower rated cap in the C3 position. What's this supposed to do? Fuck man, if I had a job I'd take that preamp off you and just use my head as a poweramp. If it's still kicking around after April when I am working, I'd take it.



Demoniac said:


> I'm also going to throw the Randall V2/V.Max suggestion...
> 
> Yes, it has tubes for part of it, but it's SS channel is absolutely fucking _stunning_. When I had my VMAX I actually ended up using the SS channel a large portion more than the tube channel, and the amount of tweakability the amp gives you on-board is awesome as well.
> 
> Definitely try one, i think. Unless it's way over budget. In which case i'm sorry


 
I've tried a V2 and fell in love. It does these tones perfectly as well as actual "good" sounding tones too. I'd have bought the one in the local store, but someone beat me to it. Also, I don't have a cab that can handle the power. If I had a suitable cab, I'd trade my RM100 for a V2 as is. Yeah, they're at least three times over budget, but they're incredible.


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## Daemoniac (Dec 9, 2009)

^ What kind of cab do you have? From what everyone told me, you don't need something that matches it exactly, as long as you're not blasting it at full power 

So either you should be fine, or someone tried to get me to destroy a cab...


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## Forced Chaos (Dec 10, 2009)

groph said:


> I know this is ultimately up to me trying out what I can and getting what I like in the end, but why not have a discussion. Forget that I own a Randall RM100, I'm not looking for suggestions with that amp in this thread.
> 
> In my tone chase, I've been noticing that I can't hold tube amps over solid state amps, for what I play. I (attempt to) play stuff like Deeds of Flesh, Disgorge, Suffocation, Defeated Sanity, older Cannibal Corpse, all those sorts of death metal. Not stuff like Whitechapel, Carnifex, Suicide Silence, or anything else considered deathcore. Not knocking on the genre, I just don't play it and I'm not looking for an amp that will give me that "kind" of tone. There's also a differentiation between "brutal death metal" and "death metal." It's kind of redundant, but brutal death is generally more rhythm oriented. Suffocation and Deeds of Flesh are my ideals of the brutal death metal sound.
> 
> ...


 
I know what you're talking about man. I've owned and played a ton of different amps...both SS and tube. I love the tone of tube amps but let's face it when you get into ultra fast low chord passages you have a real hard time staying articulate with a tube head because like you said....the increased dynamics. To me alot of it seems to be a more prominant mid range section and the crunch that a tube head provides whereas a SS amp is colder and just has a tighter feel. Amps that come to mind for what you're looking for are: 

* Randall older RG100ES, RG200ES (pretty much the same as the Century 200 but easier to find), V2 or T2, Cyclone, & Warheads. To me the older Warheads and the RG's tend to need additional EQ to boost them for the brootz. I realize that the Warhead has a graphic EQ already but one of the sickest rigs I've ever owned was a series 1 Warhead with both the 4X12 and 2X15 cabs. I boosted the front of the amp with a KK MXR 10 band EQ and then ran a Furman PQ4 parametric rack EQ and a sonic maximizer in the loop and that thing was thick as a motherfucker just evil. It literally knocked shit off of my walls in the next room. I wish I never sold it now cuz it just crushed. 
*Ampeg VH140C as you mentioned. I've never played one partly because they are getting harder to find but I've heard they are pretty killer heads.
*Madison Prophecy...again, never played this one but I've seen a few reviews and they are supposed to be badass. 
*Peavey XXL....yes believe it or not this is not a bad amp and you can find them used for under $300 on Craigslist and what not. Modeled after the XXX but they're SS and sound pretty sick. 
*Marshalls 8100...these are wicked heads. Same thing Chuck Schuldiner from Death used, what more can you say. They pop up from time to time on the bay and are pretty reasonably priced. 

I know alot of people don't like the BBE sonic maximizers but they really work well with SS amps IMO. They provide more low end which will thicken up your sound big time but not get muddy and you can either dial in the presence for more pick attack or pull it back to knock the edge off if it's too bright. I haven't liked them with tube amps really. To me you're going for tone with a tube amp and throwing a BBE in the loop just seems counter productive. But check one out if you haven't already and throw it in the effects loop of a SS head cuz it might suprise you. Best bang for the buck is the sonic stomp. Anyway man....that's all I have. Good luck on your amp search!


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## groph (Dec 10, 2009)

I'm using a crappy homemade 2x12 right now, might be getting an AB Custom Audio made and dumping the 2 Seventy/80's I have into it. Either that or I'll be looking around for something used. I don't have a band or anything, I can't really justify a 4x12.

The Seventy/80's don't seem to mesh very well with my RM100, at any sort of volume there's this tearing paper tonality that doesn't go away until I have the amp so dark it's muddy. I heard it through what looked like a Marshall 1960A, so G12T-75's and the tone was terrible as well. Might have just been an EQ issue. The RM100 might be picky with speakers too. The Seventy/80's do however sound like the dog's nuts with my Peavey Bandit combo, they lend a more organic squishiness to the highs, while the stock Sheffield is sort of blah.



and....




THAT IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.


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## Forced Chaos (Dec 10, 2009)

groph said:


> I'm using a crappy homemade 2x12 right now, might be getting an AB Custom Audio made and dumping the 2 Seventy/80's I have into it. Either that or I'll be looking around for something used. I don't have a band or anything, I can't really justify a 4x12.
> 
> The Seventy/80's don't seem to mesh very well with my RM100, at any sort of volume there's this tearing paper tonality that doesn't go away until I have the amp so dark it's muddy. I heard it through what looked like a Marshall 1960A, so G12T-75's and the tone was terrible as well. Might have just been an EQ issue. The RM100 might be picky with speakers too. The Seventy/80's do however sound like the dog's nuts with my Peavey Bandit combo, they lend a more organic squishiness to the highs, while the stock Sheffield is sort of blah.
> 
> ...




What kind of modules are you running with the RM? I had two of those heads at different times. Those amps get along really well with V30's for sure. I ran KT88's in my first one with the Ultra XL and it was pretty insane sounding.


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## groph (Dec 10, 2009)

Forced Chaos said:


> I know what you're talking about man. I've owned and played a ton of different amps...both SS and tube. I love the tone of tube amps but let's face it when you get into ultra fast low chord passages you have a real hard time staying articulate with a tube head because like you said....the increased dynamics. To me alot of it seems to be a more prominant mid range section and the crunch that a tube head provides whereas a SS amp is colder and just has a tighter feel. Amps that come to mind for what you're looking for are:
> 
> * Randall older RG100ES, RG200ES (pretty much the same as the Century 200 but easier to find), V2 or T2, Cyclone, & Warheads. To me the older Warheads and the RG's tend to need additional EQ to boost them for the brootz. I realize that the Warhead has a graphic EQ already but one of the sickest rigs I've ever owned was a series 1 Warhead with both the 4X12 and 2X15 cabs. I boosted the front of the amp with a KK MXR 10 band EQ and then ran a Furman PQ4 parametric rack EQ and a sonic maximizer in the loop and that thing was thick as a motherfucker just evil. It literally knocked shit off of my walls in the next room. I wish I never sold it now cuz it just crushed.
> *Ampeg VH140C as you mentioned. I've never played one partly because they are getting harder to find but I've heard they are pretty killer heads.
> ...


 

That is a damn good post, man. I totally agree with you on that first paragraph. I noticed right away that when I dropped the mids on my RM100, it sounded like total nuts, the tonal heft was completely gone at high volumes. Sounded fine at low volumes. Tube amps seem to need to have the mids cranked up for some reason, while you can generally get away with scooping a solid state. And yeah, certain tube amps can hold up under death metal riffs, but they seem to be few. Solid states just track it better. A lot of that probably comes down to your playing style as well. I prefer solid states for this kind of thing, it seems.

I forgot about the Warhead completely. Never tried one, but I saw a band once, they were sort of deathgrind sounding. The guitarist's tone was so horrid and satisfying, he was using a Warhead. Complete disgust.



Forced Chaos said:


> What kind of modules are you running with the RM? I had two of those heads at different times. Those amps get along really well with V30's for sure. I ran KT88's in my first one with the Ultra XL and it was pretty insane sounding.


 

Ultra, Treadplate, and Clean. I haven't gotten a single good tone out of the Treadplate module yet, and the Ultra is serving me well so far, but only for low volumes. Once I get it up to any volume, like I said it gets really harsh. Bear in mind my cab is open back, and knocked up in an afternoon out of spruce ply. It's not even finished in anything. Celestion Seventy/80's aren't looking like a good match for that head. Certainly going to be replaced with something professionally made sooner than later. It's got JJ 6L6's right now. I wouldn't mind trying KT88's/6550's sometime just to see. What did the KT88's do for the tone?


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## Forced Chaos (Dec 10, 2009)

You know to be honest my Warhead sounded like shit all by itself. I almost sold it immediately after I bought it and could not understand how the hell it was designed after Darrell's sound. Once I added the EQ's and the BBE though it was a different story. I think the Warhead X2 is more of a plug and play version cuz they went back in and redesigned the head.


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## Daemoniac (Dec 10, 2009)

Shit, I forgot about the Madison one too. +1 to that, i'd really _really_ like to get my hands on one of those one day. It'll just cost a fuckload to ship to Australia


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## Forced Chaos (Dec 10, 2009)

groph said:


> That is a damn good post, man. I totally agree with you on that first paragraph. I noticed right away that when I dropped the mids on my RM100, it sounded like total nuts, the tonal heft was completely gone at high volumes. Sounded fine at low volumes. Tube amps seem to need to have the mids cranked up for some reason, while you can generally get away with scooping a solid state. And yeah, certain tube amps can hold up under death metal riffs, but they seem to be few. Solid states just track it better. A lot of that probably comes down to your playing style as well. I prefer solid states for this kind of thing, it seems.
> 
> I forgot about the Warhead completely. Never tried one, but I saw a band once, they were sort of deathgrind sounding. The guitarist's tone was so horrid and satisfying, he was using a Warhead. Complete disgust.
> 
> ...


 
The JJ KT88's made a huge difference actually. They have alot more headroom so it stayed tighter but it also had more of a throatier sound to it afterwards. They were my fav tubes for that head. I was using the Ultra XL, SL+, and the Blackface mods. You def need a closed back cab with V30's. That would match up well with pretty much any head you bought and sound well. I have a Vadar 2X12 right now and I like that cab alot. Think it has Eminence Legends in it if I'm not mistaken.


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## groph (Dec 10, 2009)

Jesus, the clips of the Prophecy on the Madison site sound WAY better than the Divinity which is all tube. The Divinity has that same tearing-paper in the high end that my Randall is currently suffering from for some reason.


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## Forced Chaos (Dec 10, 2009)

Hells yeah....the Prophecy is a nice amp. Wonder how much they go for on the used market.


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## Daemoniac (Dec 10, 2009)

I'm pretty sure they're quite cheap over your end  Can't remember an exact price though...


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## sami (Dec 10, 2009)

Necrophagist777 said:


> Ampeg VH140C.



This is prolly the best rec imo. Or you can get a JCM900. Even though it's a tube amp, it's gain relies on clipping diodes which is what solid states are.


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## troyguitar (Dec 10, 2009)

groph said:


> Bear in mind my cab is open back,



You absolutely should close the back of your cab before buying anything else IMO. That will change your tone dramatically.


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## groph (Dec 10, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> You absolutely should close the back of your cab before buying anything else IMO. That will change your tone dramatically.


 

Yeah, I guess it solidifies the bass a lot doesn't it? I remember doing a comparison way back when I made the mistake of building this crap 2x12 cab of open back versus closed back, the open sounded airier. Definitely should have went closed, but for some reason I thought open sounded better back then.

As soon as possible, I'm getting a new cab, probably an AB Custom Audio.


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## TomAwesome (Dec 10, 2009)

I've heard that open back cabs have a tighter bass response, because it lets the speaker "breathe" more instead of more or less sealing off an area behind the speakers that will compress and expand as the speakers move. I think that's why Dino was using 1/3 open back Mesa cabs for a while. I haven't tried it or heard it demonstrated, though.


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## troyguitar (Dec 10, 2009)

I'm not very good at describing tonal differences, but there is a huge difference in sound between open and closed back cabs. Just take your open-back cab and play through it sitting in the middle of a room, then move it right up against a wall (or place something solid right behind it). If your cab is unfinished, then there's nothing to stop you from slapping a piece of plywood across the back.

Another thing that will change the sound is elevating the cab up on a stand/chair/table versus leaving it on the floor. You will get a much more "in your face" tone if the speakers are in your face 

You also might consider trying distortion pedals since you're looking for a solid-state sound - that's exactly what they give you.


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## D-EJ915 (Dec 10, 2009)

the VH-140C is cool from when I used one briefly (through the ampeg full stack ) but I think the G2 RH series randalls sound better but they are definitely a lot drier sounding (also you need a setup that works with the randalls). Both great amps though.

Another head people rave about (or combo) is the Peavey Supreme 160 and Stereo Chorus 2x12.

randall rg75g2:
[media]http://project777.darktech.org:8080/stuff/MVI_4191.MP3[/media]
[media]http://project777.darktech.org:8080/stuff/old/MVI_3873.mp3[/media]

http://project777.darktech.org:8080/stuff/old/

3090,3091,3092,etc. there are some ashdown clips in there too but I think it's pretty obvious which ones they are (in the first half)


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## Ishan (Dec 10, 2009)

I'd recommend a GT3500H too as I use one  it's built cheaply but still sounds really good. Even better would be to find a GTX3500H as that's what Scott Hull used (he used the Tidalwave, NOT the Shockwave)


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## highlordmugfug (Dec 10, 2009)

Ishan said:


> I'd recommend a GT3500H too as I use one  it's built cheaply but still sounds really good. Even better would be to find a GTX3500H as that's what Scott Hull used (*he used the Tidalwave, NOT the Shockwave*)


My mistake, I reread the quote I looked at, and apparently I skipped over the 'x' every time I read it.  I've never heard of the Tidalwave until now.


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## Harry (Dec 10, 2009)

TomAwesome said:


> Maybe look into the Peavey XXL or Supreme 150, though the 8100 is pretty neat.



Yep, the 8100 is an excellent amp


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## CrushingAnvil (Dec 10, 2009)

Demoniac said:


> Maybe try and find a Randall Cyclone? I know these things got a bit of a rough rep, but Randall solid state tone + 9 band graphic EQ, i can't see a problem



For sure dude, built in EQ's are a fuckin' godsend...

I played the mesa mk3 and It's insanely versatile.

But for Brutal death, look in to an Ampeg VH-140C or a Marshall 8100.

I hear you about the Deathcore tone although there are Deathcore bands which use 5150's and then there is Decapitated, Vogg used a 5150II on The Negation and it didn't sound Deathcore at all (Partially because Deathcore hardly existed back then) so really man you could use any amp for Brutal death like the bands you mention - just fuck with the mids/treble and see where things go.

Are you going to ditch the RM100? I love mine...


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## LEWY7777777 (Dec 10, 2009)

The amp I use alot the- Line6 HD147 mimics tube output and response somewhat and still gets very dirty yet technical and clean , the only thing I didn't like is the sound changes with volume so you have to keep tweeking it if you don't use the exact volume every stage setting I had multiple presets for presets to combat this. But an excellent head alot different from standard line6 preamps.
For my new custom order 8 string I plan to further expand possibilities.
I am going to add the Madison Prophecy to my line up. I am anxious to do a sound test with my new 8 string and prophecy versus the HD147. I'm sure both will have alot of good sounds that I will use recording.. 
First- BOOTCAMP-. Ran will be building it anyway ...such a long wait,,,oh well it will all be worth it. Until then


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## jackson1014 (Dec 10, 2009)

i have to say go for the ibanez tbx150 its great ive had mine for a year and just love it.Best head for under 300$ IMO.


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## Joseph Goodman (Dec 10, 2009)

The Crate Vtx350 is the same thing as the GTX3500 Tidalwave, but a bit easier to find.


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## Setnakt (Dec 10, 2009)

The Hughes & Kettner Warp 7 is a good solid state head. Capable of enormously excessive amounts of gain, but sounds good at lower gain levels; very dry kind of tone.


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## ellengtrgrl (Dec 10, 2009)

highlordmugfug said:


> As soon as I saw this I was going to recommend the GT3500. I just got mine about a week or so ago, it is AWESOME for the scooped death metal tone. I got mine used for $199.99+tax.
> Used Crate GT3500H Shockwave Amp Head-knob damage - Used Guitar Amps - Used Guitars & Amps - Used Instruments - Jim Laabs Music: The Midwest's Largest Music Store - Musical Instruments and Musical Equipment - Music Instrument Store
> There's one for just out of your price range. It's 350W @ 2ohm, [email protected], and I was told by cCrate 150W @ 8ohm.
> EDIT: OH, and at this musicgoround
> ...


 
I'd have to agree about the Crates. I have a GX1200H, that with the right tone/EQ settings, will easily do death tones. The Flexwave series are also capable of doing 'em too. Both can bought stupid cheap all day long, and are 120 watt amps into 4 ohms (70 or 80 watts depending upon the amp, into 8 ohms).




groph said:


> Yeah. CC used the Stealth on some of the old stuff, I think. My favorite old Corpse tone is definitely off of The Bleeding. That's a good death scoop right there.
> 
> Tom, I've heard numerous good things about the Peavey XXL. A friend of mine has the Supreme, but I don't know if it's a real death metal type of tone or not, maybe. This friend of mine can't dial an amp in to save his life though, and he has that horrid Behringer cab that makes anything sound terrible.


 
I had a Supreme for a couple of months. It's an OK amp, but as the voicing on the pushbutton says, the extreme voicing setting is more thrash oriented.




Setnakt said:


> The Hughes & Kettner Warp 7 is a good solid state head. Capable of enormously excessive amounts of gain, but sounds good at lower gain levels; very dry kind of tone.


 
I'd forgotten about the Hughes & Kettner Warp Series. I used one to try out a guitar at Music Go Round a few months ago. The Warp Channel can easily do death metal. I preferred the sound of it to the Ampeg SS140 I also tried out once. My only complaint was that I thought it was a little flimsy construction-wise.


----------



## boltzthrower (Dec 10, 2009)

groph said:


> Yeah, the Ultra module is what I use. I've used a 10 band EQ and wasn't all that impressed, I can't really see 30 bands simplifying things, I really prefer setups to be as effects processor free as possible. I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to this lower rated cap in the C3 position. What's this supposed to do? Fuck man, if I had a job I'd take that preamp off you and just use my head as a poweramp. If it's still kicking around after April when I am working, I'd take it.



Grail Tone - Randall MTS Series Module Modifications

Scroll down to the High Gain Mod section.

If you're handy with a soldering iron, this is a mod that should only cost you a few cents for parts. It basically decreases the low end and increases the attack, which is great 'cause the Ultra has way too much low end for death metal IMO.


----------



## jllozano (Dec 10, 2009)

i love my peavey bandit combo-turned-head into vader cabinets.....sounds SICK ...and no this is not a joke


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## groph (Dec 10, 2009)

troyguitar said:


> You also might consider trying distortion pedals since you're looking for a solid-state sound - that's exactly what they give you.


 
Yeah, that'd be the cheapest way for sure, but they'd still be running though a tube amp, I don't want tube dynamics.



CrushingAnvil said:


> For sure dude, built in EQ's are a fuckin' godsend...
> 
> I played the mesa mk3 and It's insanely versatile.
> 
> ...


 
I'd jump on an 8100 in an instant if I ever saw one around again.
I know 5150's won't give me an instant deathcore tone no matter what it's EQ'ed to, along with many other "typical deathcore" amps, I was just trying to specify a difference between deathcore tones and brutal death metal tones, which we seem to agree that there's a difference.

The RM100 I can't see me getting rid of, I don't think I have a cab that can do it justice yet, and I've been having trouble getting what I consider a good brutal death metal tone out of it. "Normal" death metal, thrash, general metal, it does that stuff just fine, I just want a solid state amp specifically for brutal death. If I ever end up not playing the RM100, then yeah I'll sell it. Much too early to decide now, it's a nice amp and it's barely a year old. It can do a lot, so I can't justify ditching it because I can't get one specific tone out of it just yet. Even if I get a good enough cab for it, I don't think it will ever be tight enough for brutal death. Stuff like Amon Amarth it excels at. It does those "big" tones really well.



jllozano said:


> i love my peavey bandit combo-turned-head into vader cabinets.....sounds SICK ...and no this is not a joke


 
Yeah, definitely. I quite like my Bandit, and I was considering turning it into a head. I might even just end up using this thing, provided I can't find anything better. Definitely needs to be going through a cab, though. Alone it can't get quite loud enough, it breaks up at around 5 on the post gain.


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## CrushingAnvil (Dec 10, 2009)

groph said:


> Yeah, that'd be the cheapest way for sure, but they'd still be running though a tube amp, I don't want tube dynamics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can get a perfect Nihility (Decapitated) tone from it although it's not 100% since Vogg uses a boost I'm fairly sure.

Try a Rivera cabinet, mine sounds insane although I would rather have the bottom version and put some T75's in it with the V30's .

Edit: I forgot, I really think you'd love the Ampeg VH-140C - I'm just assuming you haven't played one just for the sake of it. Suffocation used them up until they wrote their self-titled record and started using Peavey XXX's.


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## groph (Dec 10, 2009)

CrushingAnvil said:


> I can get a perfect Nihility (Decapitated) tone from it although it's not 100% since Vogg uses a boost I'm fairly sure.
> 
> Try a Rivera cabinet, mine sounds insane although I would rather have the bottom version and put some T75's in it with the V30's .
> 
> Edit: I forgot, I really think you'd love the Ampeg VH-140C - I'm just assuming you haven't played one just for the sake of it. Suffocation used them up until they wrote their self-titled record and started using Peavey XXX's.


 

How do the Vintage 30's fare with the RM100? I'm assuming pretty well, no sandpapery highs?

Yeah, I know the VH140C was the weapon of choice for a long time, along with Dying Fetus, I think Hate Eternal used them too at some point, they are to death metal as what Plexi's are to classic rock. I'd love to try one, but I've never seen one around. I'd probably love them.


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## jllozano (Dec 10, 2009)

bandit "head"--->vader cab = WIN

however i do use a bloody murder as a boost,BKP's....also i use high quality evidence audio speaker and guitar cable.....it really makes a huuuge difference TO ME


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## CrushingAnvil (Dec 11, 2009)

groph said:


> How do the Vintage 30's fare with the RM100? I'm assuming pretty well, no sandpapery highs?
> 
> Yeah, I know the VH140C was the weapon of choice for a long time, along with Dying Fetus, I think Hate Eternal used them too at some point, they are to death metal as what Plexi's are to classic rock. I'd love to try one, but I've never seen one around. I'd probably love them.



The highs are smooth as hell - Try this setting:

Gain: 8-9

Bass: 6

Middle: 9.5

Treble: 5.5

Density: 5.2

Presence: 0.1

Precise I know but It sounds amazing when you turn it up - A LOT of clarity.

On a 7 string the low B just jumps at you and kicks you in the ear lobe


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## christpuncher66 (Dec 12, 2009)

if there is any debate on what CC used heres a video:
.


dude, dont get the 5150. i own one and it will not do what your looking for. i promise you. its good for what it does, but its not solid state. also, i had a gt3500h and its not quite there. its got enough gain, but its too hissy and not clear enough. 

i got the chance to hear a vh-140c live in a basement show this past summer and it was just on another level. dont settle man. that amp is legendary. fucking suffocation, dying fetus, assuck, and discordance axis. bands like these dont fucking lie or settle for less.

also i think g12t75's are awesome for scooped brutal sounds. i dont know how the dude was eq'n his amp when you heard it, but i have a marshall 1960a and it sounds pretty fucking killer to me, way better for those tones then vintage 30's. they have too much mids and the highs are harsh.

you could also try the randall T2, but that might be way out of your price range. my friend whos in a grind band called loaded for bear(Loaded for Bear on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads listen to erring on the side of john caution) got one and he swears by it. he didnt use the T2 for any of those recordings, but he says its what hes been looking for his whole life.

if all else fails, try using an mt-2 with a solid state bass amp. i used a trace elliot ah300 with one for 2 years in my band and it had the sound i was looking for. it just wasnt loud enough for some reason, even at 300 watts. 
here what is sounded like Abrade on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads listen to nosebleeds and desaturate.

P.S.
this post might come off sound know-it-all-ish, but i have been looking for the EXACT tone your talking about for years and i have tried fucking countless amps searching for it, so i guess i feel my opinion counts a little bit more than people who use tube amps and play metalcore and say thats the only way to go.

insect warfare uses the marshall 8100: 

discordance axis: 

assuck: 

Noisear: 

suffocation: 

dying fetus: 

i know i might get banned for posting all these videos, but whatever. if i get banned for helping out a brother, then fuck it.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Dec 12, 2009)

Necrophagist777 said:


> Ampeg VH140C. Suffocation used to use them. Dying Fetus still does. Best Solid State head in existence IMO. Br00tal gain and Jazz Chorus like cleans.
> 
> You will find them all over the web used, and usually under 400 bucks. Can't go wrong with them. I'm tempted to pick one up and run it in stereo with my XXX.



Why did it take 8 replies to get this answer? This should have been the first one!

It's worth noting that the VH-150 has the same preamp, but a single 150W power amp and no chorus.


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## highlordmugfug (Dec 12, 2009)

christpuncher66 said:


> i know i might get banned for posting all these videos, but whatever. if i get banned for helping out a brother, then fuck it.


Why would you be banned?


And yeah, the VH140C was my first thought as well. (Got so caught up in mentioning the GT3500 that it slipped my mind :/ )


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## christpuncher66 (Dec 12, 2009)

highlordmugfug said:


> Why would you be banned?



i dunno if the mods are down with me spamming the thread with videos and links to me n my freinds bands. eh.



WarriorOfMetal said:


> It's worth noting that the VH-150 has the same preamp, but a single 150W power amp and no chorus.



good luck finding one of those.


----------



## groph (Dec 12, 2009)

christpuncher66 said:


> dude, dont get the 5150. i own one and it will not do what your looking for. i promise you. its good for what it does, but its not solid state. also, i had a gt3500h and its not quite there. its got enough gain, but its too hissy and not clear enough.
> 
> i got the chance to hear a vh-140c live in a basement show this past summer and it was just on another level. dont settle man. that amp is legendary. fucking suffocation, dying fetus, assuck, and discordance axis. bands like these dont fucking lie or settle for less.
> 
> ...


 
I'm not getting a 5150, not willing to pay for a tube amp when I know that there are solid state amps out there that do brutal death tones better, and all I need is a brutal death tone, nothing else.

I'd probably go out on a limb and get a VH140C if I ever saw one listed for sale, even without trying. Everyone who has tried one always sings praises about them. They pop up on Ebay from time to time. Sucks that they're discontinued...

I should look around locally for a 1960A cab. They're EVERYWHERE in stores, so I could try one out if I were so inclined. Not about to pay 800 bucks for one though.

Good thing there aren't any metalcore playing tube snobs around here.


----------



## anthoKnee (Dec 12, 2009)

How come no one has mentioned the Crate GX130 head yet?
The sound is very similar to the VH140c Ampeg.
Now that I am using two Equalizers (one in the effects loop) - (and the other before the Bad Monkey) I've been able to crank it up to about 7 and retain the Brutal tone without the prior mud problems I was having.
I will eventually get a Sonic Maximizer to test out.
But the tone I am getting is very, very, THICK---and Ultra Distorted!!!


----------



## Ironbird666 (Dec 12, 2009)

groph said:


> I'm not getting a 5150, not willing to pay for a tube amp when I know that there are solid state amps out there that do brutal death tones better, and all I need is a brutal death tone, nothing else.
> 
> *I'd probably go out on a limb and get a VH140C* if I ever saw one listed for sale, even without trying. Everyone who has tried one always sings praises about them. They pop up on Ebay from time to time. Sucks that they're discontinued...
> 
> ...


 
You won't be going out on a limb, you'll be severing them with br00tal tone!! Get it dude and don't look back, it will not disappoint!


----------



## christpuncher66 (Dec 12, 2009)

groph said:


> I'm not getting a 5150, not willing to pay for a tube amp when I know that there are solid state amps out there that do brutal death tones better, and all I need is a brutal death tone, nothing else.
> 
> I'd probably go out on a limb and get a VH140C if I ever saw one listed for sale, even without trying. Everyone who has tried one always sings praises about them. They pop up on Ebay from time to time. Sucks that they're discontinued...
> 
> ...



dude, i got mine for $350 used. look on craigslist bro, you can find them for 450 easy and every once in a while they go as low as 300. go for a 1960b if possible. they have more low end.


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## cyril v (Dec 12, 2009)

i played through a VH140C at a friends house when we were doing recordings there... I hated my amp so i figured i'd just play whatever was there, and then I saw that thing... at first i was like, "wtf, you want me to play through a bass amp?" lol, i couldn't have been anymore wrong, it has such a nice thick and kickass tone even without any pedals or too much tweaking at all. I just plugged in, played a chord, turned on the distortion and played another and that was that. definitely get one if you have the chance, even if it's broken, it'd be worth paying to get it fixed.


----------



## groph (Dec 12, 2009)

anthoKnee said:


> How come no one has mentioned the Crate GX130 head yet?
> The sound is very similar to the VH140c Ampeg.
> Now that I am using two Equalizers (one in the effects loop) - (and the other before the Bad Monkey) I've been able to crank it up to about 7 and retain the Brutal tone without the prior mud problems I was having.
> I will eventually get a Sonic Maximizer to test out.
> But the tone I am getting is very, very, THICK---and Ultra Distorted!!!


 
I think someone mentioned it, at least indirectly. I remember looking this head up as a result of this thread. It's an option that I wasn't previously aware of, and the more the merrier. Old Crate amps rule. I don't know why they stopped making good amps, everything they have out now is budget garbage. Their solid states sound like oversized distortion pedals, and those V series tube amps sound like flatulent insects. 



Ironbird666 said:


> You won't be going out on a limb, you'll be severing them with br00tal tone!! Get it dude and don't look back, it will not disappoint!


Hahahaha



christpuncher66 said:


> dude, i got mine for $350 used. look on craigslist bro, you can find them for 450 easy and every once in a while they go as low as 300. go for a 1960b if possible. they have more low end.


 

Yeah, those are pretty sweet prices. They're pretty much everyone's go-to cab, so I expect I'd find one pretty easily. I think eventually I'd want a V30/T-75 X pattern, or an additional 2x12 cab with a different speaker type.

Also, I was fucking around with my Bandit combo, let's just say it's not for sale any more. It's not the ideal tone, but it does brutal death WORLDS better than my RM100 does. The tube dynamics knob was giving me some shit. I always had it on full because it makes the amp louder and softens the highs a bit, makes it sound somewhat "tubier" so I knocked this down to around 30%. That got rid of some undesirable metallic scratchiness that obscured palm muted chord passages that I was having before with this amp.

Lead channel - Modern setting

Gain at 7 or 8
Bass at 6
Mids at 3
Treble at 7
Presence at 7

I tried the Low Gain input but the High sounds better, the low just sucks tone.

Overall it sounded pretty awesome, it would only improve with more volume and more speakers.


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## anthoKnee (Dec 12, 2009)

Aha yes Groph, 
I see now after re-reading the posts, that highlordmugfug,
did indeed mention the GX130---!
I am definitely using this amp as the basic foundation for the tone I am after;
Ive got it 85 percent there---and now just needs a tad more work.
I really do not think we will ever really know how closely it might be related to the Ampeg Vh140c---until someone who took part in the building of them steps forth and definitively proves things.
I know one thing for sure, and that these SS amps truly are Great for that
particular kind of Brutal Tone!


----------



## highlordmugfug (Dec 13, 2009)

christpuncher66 said:


> i dunno if the mods are down with me spamming the thread with videos and links to me n my freinds bands. eh.
> 
> 
> 
> good luck finding one of those.


Which one of these is your band? (pm me your vids  ) And it's not spam, it's research. 


anthoKnee said:


> How come no one has mentioned the Crate GX130 head yet?
> The sound is very similar to the VH140c Ampeg.


But I...


anthoKnee said:


> Aha yes Groph,
> I see now after re-reading the posts, that highlordmugfug,
> did indeed mention the GX130---!


Nevermind. I wish I had gotten a VH140C instead of my Crate now after hearing more people sing it's praises. Groph, I think the ampeg'll be what you're after. It's hard to believe that this many people would dote on it for that specific tone if it wasn't just the shit!


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## anthoKnee (Dec 13, 2009)

&#8220;Old Crate amps rule. I don't know why they stopped making good amps, everything they have out now is budget garbage. Their solid states sound like oversized distortion pedals, and those V series tube amps sound like flatulent insects&#8221;

True enough Groph!

I&#8217;ve got a ancient G40c--it&#8217;s only 40 watts, but louder than most would believe! A great distortion, but not for Death tones! Unbelievable sturdy construction!
I&#8217;ve got the Crate Gt50 Stealth, and it slays for Hair Metal----up to Metallica. Distortion on it&#8217;s own, not good enough &#8220;for Me&#8221; for the Death tone. Still needs a pedal t&#8217;would seem.

I love the basic tone I am getting from the GX130 (even out of one 65 watt channel ) using an old 15&#8221; cab from the seventies. When I have the money I will play it through two 4x12 cabs---and it even has two more inputs for two more 4X12 cabs!!
All I have to do, is clean the tone up---and refine it until it matches the tone I have in my head.

My friend just purchased a used Crate V50 tuber---and is going to run that through a fuzz of some sort, to get a Stoner-Doom tone. Seems like it would work.

But the tone I&#8217;ve got to have, is a Cannibal Corpse---or a Morbid Angel type of tone---and no thing else will suffice to satisfy me.
It need not be exactly the same, but it does have to be a close relative to those particular kinds of tone.

Even when you find an amp that has the basic tone you are looking for---a lot of tweaking and experimentation---it would seem---cannot be avoided---to home in Exactly what one is looking for.


----------



## jllozano (Dec 13, 2009)

groph said:


> Also, I was fucking around with my Bandit combo, let's just say it's not for sale any more. It's not the ideal tone, but it does brutal death WORLDS better than my RM100 does. The tube dynamics knob was giving me some shit. I always had it on full because it makes the amp louder and softens the highs a bit, makes it sound somewhat "tubier" so I knocked this down to around 30%. That got rid of some undesirable metallic scratchiness that obscured palm muted chord passages that I was having before with this amp.



Yes the T. dynamics knob is key in getting the sound....i use at 60% approx


----------



## maxident213 (Dec 13, 2009)

Taken from an October 1996 _Guitar School_ interview with Jack Owen & Rob Barrett of Cannibal Corpse (_Vile_-era) :

GS: What kind of gear are you using these days?

JO: I play a Brian Moore Custom straight into a Crate GX130C. It's the best head Crate ever made, and they don't make them anymore. You plug straight in and it rips.

RB: I use a Crate GT200 Quadradrive, a Boss Metal Zone pedal and EMG 81's in the neck position of my guitars. I have an ESP Strat Custom and a Gibson Les Paul.

I'm pretty sure they used the same amps for "The Bleeding" album as well. They can be seen in the "Staring Through The Eyes Of The Dead" video.


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## Mattnh79 (Dec 13, 2009)

I have a Vadar 2X12 right now and I like that cab alot. Think it has Eminence Legends in it if I'm not mistaken.[/QUOTE]

Custom tuned legends only available in vader cabs.


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## Scarpie (Dec 13, 2009)

highlordmugfug said:


> Pierced from within=VH140C (suffocation)



as per the riff master doug cerrito himself this is innaccurate. they recorded despise the sun with vh 140 - c's but pierced was recorded with a marshall boosted by a discontinued korg distorion processor.


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## christpuncher66 (Dec 13, 2009)

oh yeah heres another band that uses the crate gx130. Moral Decay on MySpace Music - Free Streaming MP3s, Pictures & Music Downloads

on thing i must mention is that their guitars are never quite loud enough live, even when the dudes playing out of two cabs.


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## Rotatous (Dec 13, 2009)

I've got a Crate gx130c for sale in the spam section: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...96768-crate-gx-130c-head-great-condition.html

One of you guys might want to check it out...


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## anthoKnee (Dec 13, 2009)

From what I've read, and seen of various YouTube videos,
I think that The Ampeg VH140c, the Crate GX130, and the ShockWave, and TidelWave amps---are all Great for that Brutal Death Metal tone.

I think the Ampeg most probably does that specific tone The Best!
I think that the GX130 does the tone too, but needs an EQ and only the best cabs to get there.
The ShockWave and TidelWave though---have the added advantage of being able to Crank it up to much greater volumes--before one hears any sort of muddy-ness.

The Ampeg would seem to be the one to get if one has the bucks, and can find one.
But if I had the ShockWave or the TidelWave---I doubt I would be lusting after the other two, if those much louder amps, can indeed get pretty much the same tone as the Ampeg or the GX130.

All of them do seem to be of the same species!


----------



## MFB (Dec 14, 2009)

There IS a Crate GC130X or whatever one that was mentioned in here for sale, just an FYI

Edit : fuck Rotatous beat me to it - but I guess it makes sense since it's his amp


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## Joseph Goodman (Dec 14, 2009)

I wonder what it would sound like if you ran one of those Ampeg/Crate stereo amps in to a tube poweramp like a Fryette 2/90? The best of both worlds?


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## anthoKnee (Dec 14, 2009)

"I wonder what it would sound like if you ran one of those Ampeg/Crate stereo amps in to a tube poweramp like a Fryette 2/90? The best of both worlds?"

Hello Joseph Goodman!

I've read here and there about people running one amp into another, yet have never encountered such a situation---and am wondering:
How the hell do they do it? I guess from the input of one, into the "Auxiliary input" of the other?
I would be hesitant to do this---and possibly fry an amp; but if it could be done safely---than perhaps you are right!
Does any one know more about running one amp into another?
People have ruined amps not quite knowing what they were doing.....


----------



## WarriorOfMetal (Dec 14, 2009)

You'd have to use the FX send from the Ampeg/Crate. I can't remember if my old VH-150 had a serial or parallel loop, but if it's parallel, you'd have to have the mix turned all the way up.


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## Joseph Goodman (Dec 14, 2009)

The Vh140/Gx130 both have line-outs (one side wet, one side dry) that are seperate from the effects loop.


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## groph (Dec 14, 2009)

Rotatous said:


> I've got a Crate gx130c for sale in the spam section: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...96768-crate-gx-130c-head-great-condition.html
> 
> One of you guys might want to check it out...


 


AAGH that's so tempting. If I had my own place (no parents to bitch at me for buying another amp, "BUT U ALREDY HAEV AN AMP WAT DOES DIS 1 DO DAT UR OTHER 1 DUSNT LOL?" I'd be all the fuck over this. I'd have the money for it soon, too.

This is the amp used on The Bleeding, correct?


----------



## highlordmugfug (Dec 14, 2009)

groph said:


> AAGH that's so tempting. If I had my own place (no parents to bitch at me for buying another amp, "BUT U ALREDY HAEV AN AMP WAT DOES DIS 1 DO DAT UR OTHER 1 DUSNT LOL?" I'd be all the fuck over this. I'd have the money for it soon, too.
> 
> This is the amp used on The Bleeding, correct?


I was going to buy it, but I found the GT3500 close enough to go pickup for cheaper.

Yes it is.


----------



## groph (Dec 14, 2009)

MOTHER OF GOD I WANT IT


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## Elysian (Dec 14, 2009)

Marlon said:


> If you want old Cannibal Corps death metal then you want he Marshall Valvestate 8100. That is what they used.
> 
> The are bright amps, but they are super thick. And cheap.
> 
> My guitarist uses one, and I went out and bought one too. It is cheap and light and (at the very least) makes are good back up head to gig with.



Also pretty sure that's what Chuck used in Death.


----------



## anthoKnee (Dec 14, 2009)

It seems to be that very amp being used in the video posted by Christpuncher66---!
You can definitely see that most revered Crate Logo!!!

"I was going to buy it, but I found the GT3500 close enough to go pickup for cheaper."

highlordmugfug,
and here I'm lusting after your GT3500! 
Mine has the sound yes, but yours has THE POWER!!
I think each of us, needs to save up and have one of each!
We would all abide in The Heaven of the most sickening and deadly of distorted tones---!


----------



## groph (Dec 14, 2009)

There should be a society for those of us who enjoy grotesque tones.


----------



## highlordmugfug (Dec 14, 2009)

anthoKnee said:


> It seems to be that very amp being used in the video posted by Christpuncher66---!
> You can definitely see that most revered Crate Logo!!!
> 
> "I was going to buy it, but I found the GT3500 close enough to go pickup for cheaper."
> ...


----------



## anthoKnee (Dec 14, 2009)

Indeed Groph!

We are coinsurers and purveyors of Sickeningly Deadly Death Metal Tones!
We enjoy dishing out the most malevolent brutal riffage, the way some enjoy the tasting of rich wines.
We can revel in and appreciate both.
Pass out the vomit bags! 
Ear plugs might protect their hearing---but our vibrational onslaught will turn the body of the nay-sayers,
to putrid pulp---!!!


----------



## Tysonimmortal (Dec 14, 2009)

The Crate GT3500h shockwave is an amazing head for the death metal. Misery Index to Skinless with a single knob turn.


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## MFB (Dec 14, 2009)

Elysian said:


> Also pretty sure that's what Chuck used in Death.





J from White Zombie used one of those back in the day as well and La Sexorcisto is one of my favorite tones


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## christpuncher66 (Dec 16, 2009)

FUCK YEAH! i just won an ampeg vh-140c in really good condition on ebay. i cant fucking wait to get that shit..


----------



## Hollowman (Dec 16, 2009)

Have you looked at Marshall AVT 150? they are good for getting any sound that you want.


----------



## christpuncher66 (Dec 16, 2009)

Hollowman666 said:


> Have you looked at Marshall AVT 150? they are good for getting any sound that you want.



dude if your going to go marshall, go 8100. i owned an avt for 4 years and hated the shit of it. sold it for $250 and was happy to get rid of it.


----------



## Variant (Dec 16, 2009)

MFB said:


> J from White Zombie used one of those back in the day as well and La Sexorcisto is one of my favorite tones



If I recall correctly, La Sexorcisto was a typical tubey JCM Marshall, it was Astrocreep that was a blend of two Valvestates and a Randall RG100.


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## MFB (Dec 17, 2009)

Variant said:


> If I recall correctly, La Sexorcisto was a typical tubey JCM Marshall, it was Astrocreep that was a blend of two Valvestates and a Randall RG100.



Ah, well then I guess I was wrong. Astrocreep wasn't awful but I prefer La Sexorcisto in a competition.

Either way - Marshall 8100 is an awesome head on a budget


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## avenger (Dec 17, 2009)

I have been looking for pretty much the same thing. SS with enough to get those death metal tones. I can get a Marshall 8100 valvestate but from what I have read I think I am gonna hold out and try to find the ampeg head. 

Anyone know how much they genrally run for?

EDIT: Anyone in GTA area that can point me in the right direction for finding one of these would be great! I guess I will have to hit up every guitar, music, pawn shop I can find.


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## christpuncher66 (Dec 18, 2009)

avenger said:


> I have been looking for pretty much the same thing. SS with enough to get those death metal tones. I can get a Marshall 8100 valvestate but from what I have read I think I am gonna hold out and try to find the ampeg head.
> 
> Anyone know how much they genrally run for?
> 
> EDIT: Anyone in GTA area that can point me in the right direction for finding one of these would be great! I guess I will have to hit up every guitar, music, pawn shop I can find.



i wouldnt pay more than $425 for a mint ampeg vh-140c. but you can generally find ones with missing knob covers and shit for 250-300. crate shockwaves go for the same price and gx-130c's are a little cheaper.


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## zimbloth (Dec 18, 2009)

I'm not a solid-state guy but I've heard nothing but good things about the Ampeg. I'd go for that over a Crate.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Dec 18, 2009)

zimbloth said:


> I'm not a solid-state guy but I've heard nothing but good things about the Ampeg. I'd go for that over a Crate.



I can't remember, did you ever actually get to hear mine when I had it?


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## zimbloth (Dec 18, 2009)

WarriorOfMetal said:


> I can't remember, did you ever actually get to hear mine when I had it?



Sadly I didn't, but I trust your judgment.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Dec 18, 2009)

That was such a sick amp, I'd love to have one again sometime


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## Necrophagist777 (Dec 18, 2009)

avenger said:


> I have been looking for pretty much the same thing. SS with enough to get those death metal tones. I can get a Marshall 8100 valvestate but from what I have read I think I am gonna hold out and try to find the ampeg head.
> 
> Anyone know how much they genrally run for?
> 
> EDIT: Anyone in GTA area that can point me in the right direction for finding one of these would be great! I guess I will have to hit up every guitar, music, pawn shop I can find.



I hope it's ok to reference another forum, but there is a guy selling a VH-140C for 320 bucks on Ultimate-Guitar.


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## christpuncher66 (Dec 19, 2009)

$320!? ahh wtf... 

eh.. with shipping included, it woulda been around what i paid i guess... but still. i wouldve easily taken that off his hands. it's the old school one too.. i looked..


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## inthestix (Jan 4, 2010)

I just signed up to say 'Thanks!' for the topic and info! I've been looking for a Crate Shockwave - need a decent wattage power amp for a grind duo I'm working on. I missed a Crate on craigslist @ 2 months ago. I live near enough to the one upthread in Stevens Point, but it's a little pricey, and I happened to find this in a local shop:







I wish I would have known about these VH140C heads back when my old band was opening for Assuck and Brutal Truth. (aka shoulda been paying proper attention) Could have cut my guitar rig in half.



groph said:


> ...and those V series tube amps sound like flatulent insects.


 
The Crate V50 is great for death-doom or stoner rock tho - more a flatulent dinosaur-in-pain tone... The distortion channel seems to have a lot of sag, and if you distort the clean channel a lot it does the same thing. The crappy speaker only helps that death-sludge sound.


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## goat violator (Jan 5, 2010)

I see a few of you guys are recommending the Marshall VS8100 as a good Death Metal head. I have one as my back up/practise head, but cant seem to get it into the DM territory the Ampeg owns. I push it with a MT-2 and 15 band Ibanez EQ but it never seems to get that saturated/compressed gain. And adding a BBE sonic maximiser just seems to take the edge from the tone, giving it a tinnier sound. I have swapped out the standard marshall valve for a Tung sol 12AX7 as well. 
So if anyone have a hint or two, feel free to sing out.
Sorry for making my first post here, but it is a subject close to my heart! lol.


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## Ishan (Jan 5, 2010)

Tube Screamer (or clone) in front, level max, drive to 0, tone to taste, you're done.


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## inthestix (Jan 5, 2010)

goat violator said:


> I see a few of you guys are recommending the Marshall VS8100 as a good Death Metal head. I have one as my back up/practise head, but cant seem to get it into the DM territory the Ampeg owns. I push it with a MT-2 and 15 band Ibanez EQ but it never seems to get that saturated/compressed gain. And adding a BBE sonic maximiser just seems to take the edge from the tone, giving it a tinnier sound. I have swapped out the standard marshall valve for a Tung sol 12AX7 as well.
> So if anyone have a hint or two, feel free to sing out.
> Sorry for making my first post here, but it is a subject close to my heart! lol.


 


ishan said:


> Tube Screamer (or clone) in front, level max, drive to 0, tone to taste, you're done.


 
Jacques Tube Blower. The Tube Blower has no TS mid-hump/ MT-2 mid-sweep, it has seperate treble & bass controls - when you use both they scoop w/o losing your 'Marshall mids'. The gain range goes from much cleaner than a TS up to double the gain of a TS.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Jan 5, 2010)

inthestix said:


>


Nice pickguard.
Noothgrush rules!!


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## inthestix (Jan 5, 2010)

All_¥our_Bass said:


> Nice pickguard.
> Noothgrush rules!!


 
Thanks! Figured I'd sticker it up, with a bunch of stickers from my old label, when I took the guitar apart for maintenance. Upgraded the pickup to an actual Invader - added a 500k-500k concentric CTS pot for vol & tone and a .022 DiMarzio greencap. Grinds out on the Ampeg, total doom on my Crate.

Noothgrush are easily the band I wish I would have done more records with, back in the day.


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## Abstract_Logic (Jan 5, 2010)

Fender m80


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## christpuncher66 (Jan 8, 2010)

inthestix said:


> I wish I would have known about these VH140C heads back when my old band was opening for Assuck and Brutal Truth. (aka shoulda been paying proper attention) Could have cut my guitar rig in half.



what band were you in man? you seem to be pretty involved with diy..


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## goat violator (Jan 8, 2010)

Ishan said:


> Tube Screamer (or clone) in front, level max, drive to 0, tone to taste, you're done.





inthestix said:


> Jacques Tube Blower. The Tube Blower has no TS mid-hump/ MT-2 mid-sweep, it has seperate treble & bass controls - when you use both they scoop w/o losing your 'Marshall mids'. The gain range goes from much cleaner than a TS up to double the gain of a TS.



Thanks for the info. I might lash out next payday and try a Tube Blower.
Unless a VH-140C comes my way first.


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## inthestix (Jan 8, 2010)

christpuncher66 said:


> what band were you in man? you seem to be pretty involved with diy..


 
LOL, ya, you could say that... I started out in Pachinko (noise rock band that eventually ended up on Alt. Tentacles), but was only in that band for a couple shows and the first 7" e.p. Then I started Thug (noise rock band that evolved to sludgey grind)- both based out of Madison, WI. Ran a label called Bovine Recs - lots of grind - sludge - noise - punk records. Took a long break, and am just getting everything kajiggered in place to start recording some ugly musick again. That Ampeg I traded for last week was really the last piece I needed.

Tho I really want to build a 2x12 cab for the VH140C...



goat violator said:


> Unless a VH-140C comes my way first.


 
I would still pick up a Shockwave if I could find one for under $200 too.


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## jllozano (Jan 11, 2010)

I recently bought an Ibanex TBX150 head from a fellow forumite, and i am VERY pleased with the sound trough a vader cab....... try it if you can .....SUPER TIGHT sound, very flexible EQ, 150 watts into 4 ohms or 100 into 8


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## christpuncher66 (Jan 13, 2010)

inthestix said:


> LOL, ya, you could say that... I started out in Pachinko (noise rock band that eventually ended up on Alt. Tentacles), but was only in that band for a couple shows and the first 7" e.p. Then I started Thug (noise rock band that evolved to sludgey grind)- both based out of Madison, WI. Ran a label called Bovine Recs - lots of grind - sludge - noise - punk records. Took a long break, and am just getting everything kajiggered in place to start recording some ugly musick again. That Ampeg I traded for last week was really the last piece I needed.
> 
> Tho I really want to build a 2x12 cab for the VH140C...



oh shit nice man. you know the sfn dudes?


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## ellengtrgrl (Jan 13, 2010)

inthestix said:


> LOL, ya, you could say that... I started out in Pachinko (noise rock band that eventually ended up on Alt. Tentacles), but was only in that band for a couple shows and the first 7" e.p. Then I started Thug (noise rock band that evolved to sludgey grind)- both based out of Madison, WI. Ran a label called Bovine Recs - lots of grind - sludge - noise - punk records. Took a long break, and am just getting everything kajiggered in place to start recording some ugly musick again. That Ampeg I traded for last week was really the last piece I needed.
> 
> Tho I really want to build a 2x12 cab for the VH140C...
> 
> ...


 

I remember Madtown having a hardcore scene, when I was in college there in the 80s. I saw Die Kreutzen at the Club De Wash of all places back then. I remember the gutarist looked like some redneck who hung out in some little country bar!! He played a Kramer aluminum neck guitar through a Peavey Pacer! Now that's punk!!


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## inthestix (Jan 13, 2010)

christpuncher66 said:


> you know the sfn dudes?


 
No, I think I moved out of Madison before they started up. But I'll be at the Oiltanker show they're playing Sun nite.




ellengtrgrl said:


> I remember Madtown having a hardcore scene, when I was in college there in the 80s. I saw Die Kreutzen at the Club De Wash of all places back then. I remember the gutarist looked like some redneck who hung out in some little country bar!! He played a Kramer aluminum neck guitar through a Peavey Pacer! Now that's punk!!


 
I luved me some Die Kreuzen. Saw them all over the state back in the 80's. I even played one of those Kramer DMZ's - mostly because of Die Kreuzen. That's a freakin' heavy guitar.


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## ellengtrgrl (Jan 13, 2010)

inthestix said:


> No, I think I moved out of Madison before they started up. But I'll be at the I luved me some Die Kreuzen. Saw them all over the state back in the 80's. I even played one of those Kramer DMZ's - mostly because of Die Kreuzen. That's a freakin' heavy guitar.


 
I can believe it!! And for me to Die Kreutzen in a little "ya der hey!, how 'bout dem Packers!" kind of bar (that normally only had blues jams), that was located in a building that also had an old speakeasy, and 2 gay bars!! The Hotel Washington of course, is gone now. It burned down some years ago. 

Remember Headliners? I saw my first thrash metal show there (Metal Church, and Anthrax, in 1987). I had a chance to go see Metallica, when Cliff was still alive, in 1984, but I had an electronics lab, and thought the show was sold out (I found out otherwise! ) Such was my state capitol in the 80s.


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## cyril v (Jan 27, 2010)

I just picked up a valvestate 8100 to mess around with... great sounding head, especially for the price i got it. anyone know of any mods for this amp or necessary upgrades I should look into?


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## iondestroyer1527 (Jan 28, 2010)

line 6 sounds like shit to me for death metal and the 8100 in my opinion just doesn't totally get you there in terms of the gain/responsiveness/tightness that death metal requires (especially if it's at all technical). i use an art dst 825 which is 60 watts per side...the other guitarist in my band used an art dst 8080 in all of our newest recordings. they have all the gain you could want with a lot of room to shape the tone you can hear a clip of them together here...
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ge...19-putrescine-rough-new-song.html#post1836060


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## cyril v (Jan 28, 2010)

yeah, the 8100 seems like it would need a little something more to get into that territory, thats why I was asking if anyone knew of any mods or upgrades for it that could help. 

i'm keeping an eye out for ampegs at the moment.


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## avenger (Jan 28, 2010)

I just got a VH-140C and it def has enough gain in it to get good death metal. Still havent tried running it through a good EQ but I am sure that with some more fiddling I can find the perfect death metal sound.

If you find one just buy it, if you don't like it I think there is enough market for them to resell pretty easily + they are cheap!


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## CATBUTT (Mar 3, 2010)

just singed up to say whats up to Oak. this is Matt from Deep Shit. 

ive got an Ampeg SS150 and SS140C and they both rule. ive played many VH140Cs and i really cant tell the difference between the SS and VH. the SS seems easier to find and a bit cheaper. i got both of mine for around a $100 each off ebay. my only beef with the SS140C and VH140C is that its 70 watts per stereo output. to get the full 140 watts you need a stereo cab or two cabs. i havent played the crate gx130c yet but from the pics ive seen it looks like its set up the same way, 65 watts per side. 

what cabs are you guys using? ive got a vader 4x12 and a 70s ampeg v4. the vader with the ampeg ss slays everything. i just keep the v4 cab around for full stacking until i get a vader 2x15. ive also got a Gibson 8x12 powered cab. its 300 watts solid state. if i want to be really fucking loud i play the SS150 through a full stack while line outing to the Gibson. 16x12"!!!

Bovine dude- fucking love your label man! itd be rad to hear some new music from you.


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## christpuncher66 (Apr 7, 2010)

yo matt! what up dude? didnt know you had a ss150 and a fuckin ss140c. woulda gladly bought one off your hands. hows that fucking vader sound man? didnt know you had one. i almost bought one, til i decided to buy some g12-t100 which i never used.


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## cyril v (Apr 7, 2010)

I just picked up a GX130c recently... it is 65watts per side, but the thing is definitely badass with one cab and fucking furious with both. I had it hooked up to two 1960a's the other day and it was definitely full of win. I'm on the look out for a ss150 next.


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## Joseph Goodman (Apr 7, 2010)

Isn't the GX-130c 95 watts per side with a 4ohm load? And is it "stereo" even with the chorus off (i.e. coming out of both sides)?


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## cyril v (Apr 7, 2010)

Joseph Goodman said:


> Isn't the GX-130c 95 watts per side with a 4ohm load? And is it "stereo" even with the chorus off (i.e. coming out of both sides)?



i can't be sure.. i was just going by the specs:
http://www.crateamps.com/pdf/manuals/GX130C_OM.pdf

anyways, I'm not really sure how to use the chorus. I didn't try it with the dual cab setup, but it didn't seem to work at all with just one cab, unless i'm just doing something wrong or maybe i need a footswitch?


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## Acatalepsy (May 10, 2010)

Just get a v2 dude! I play the same kind of thing as you (Suffocation, Defeated Sanity, Decapitated etc...) and it works a charm. Takes a bit of tinkering but you can get a really chunky tone from that amp. Make sure you have a good noisegate though- it's a squealer!


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## warlock7strEMG (May 10, 2010)

old thread is old!!!


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## dreadnautthrash (Jul 31, 2013)

The crate gt3500h shockwave uses thd same preamp as the vh140c. I own the shockwave 
and it has some of the most brutal gain i've ever heard. 110 db of gain! that is more than 
the vh140c. I run mine w/ a mxr 10 band and a sonic maximizer in the loop and it sounds 
huge. It runs at 2 ohms! You have to use 2 cabs, a bass cab or rewire 4 8 ohm speakers 
just to get the full load, they don't make guitar cabs that run that low. Ive played all kinds of 
tube and solid state amps and still perfer its tone, nothing has more gain than this amp.


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## braintheory (Jul 31, 2013)

Out of all the solid state and hybrid amps I've tried the Ibanez TBX 150 was by far my favorite and I've tried (at cranked volumes): Marshall valvestates, dean dime amp, randall cyclone, randall T2, randall rg's, randall rx's, ampeg vh's, marshall mode four, marshall mg's, line 6's, voxes, roland cubes, and others I can't remember at the moment. 

The Ibanez TBX 150 is super tight (by any standard), articulate, very aggressive and biting, has lots of attack, and can be very bright. Its clean is not good, but you probably don't care about that. However, it may not be fat enough for your tastes. Also, one time I AB'ed the Ibanez TBX with a Mesa/Boogie Triple Rectifier. I played the Ibanez first thinking it was so incredible, but then the Rectifier completely incinerated it. The Ibanez sounded plasticy, toy-like, and very thin and small in comparison. Also, even though the Rectifier is way darker, and less biting, it still sounded way more aggressive, throaty, and heavier (especially for low chugging(that's where the ibanez sounded really crappy in comparison)). The Ibanez TBX150 is still a great amp IMO (and can't be beat for the price and for what it is), but even for the sound you're looking for I think the Rectifier and other tube amps would work a lot better, but the Ibanez was actually the tighter and more articulate amp.

As for solid state amps, I still haven't tried the AMT Stonehead or ISP Theta, both of which could be really awesome and are probably worth considering (probably way better than all the solid state amps I've tried and the ones mentioned so far). Also, the new Randall solid states coming out later also seem promising.

Also, I've AB'ed a lot of the other solid state and hybrid amps I mentioned before with other high end tube amps (These include the: randall cyclone, randall t2, randall rx, randal rg, ampeg vh, and marshall mode four). The tube amps were Mesa/Boogie's, Engl's, Marshall JCM800's and Bogner's. Again, like the Ibanez TBX, a bunch (but not all) of these solid state and hybrid amps sounded incredible at first, until the AB comparison, and then they would all sound shitty and often muffled and small in comparison (but before the AB wouldn't sound muffled or small). I really think it's absolutely essential to do such AB comparisons before making your decision. I think if more people did such comparisons they would be surprised and agree with me. 

Sorry for the long post btw.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jul 31, 2013)

Good djod, this is a 3-....ing-year-old thread.


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## braintheory (Jul 31, 2013)

Also, most of the solid state amps mentioned in this thread fall apart and become undefined at high volumes, but the Ibanez TBX, Dean Dime, and Marshall Valvestate didn't seem to have this issue.


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## nowhere (Aug 1, 2013)

amt stonehead sounds cool


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## kpain (Aug 8, 2013)

So this might sound unusual or downright weird, but try out an Acoustic G120h amp head. I play Defeated Sanity, old CC, Amputation, Short Bus Pile Up stuff along with jazz, blues, metal and whatnot. I originally was looking around for the ultimate clean tone for a small price (its like 250 bucks) but after checking out the distortion channel, its pretty good. Tight but still chunky, fat and grindy with plenty of attack. Its also got a scoop button to save some work and get more super scooped. Not quite enough distortion, it works alright, but works great with pedals. Throw an MXR in there and get dead


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## Mega-Mads (Aug 8, 2013)

^Pig Destroyer





^Used on the new Defeated Sanity album





^Used by Rob from Malignancy


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## schizoidasylum (Aug 8, 2013)

Randall rg 100sc


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