# Iceland Trying to Ban Internet Porn



## AngstRiddenDreams (Feb 25, 2013)

Here's an article for it if you haven't seen it already. 
Iceland Porn Ban: Internet Filter For Pornography Proposal Sparks Uproar

I personally think it would very difficult to restrict people from seeing porn since it is EVERYWHERE on the internet. I certainly wouldn't want to be the guy who goes through all the porn websites to block them.  
What do you guys think of this? Is it necessary? I don't see internet porn as being a detrimental problem in our society, but these people obviously think otherwise. 
Regardless, if this does pass, I feel sorry for all of the teenage Icelander's


----------



## Rick (Feb 25, 2013)

Note to self: change vacation plans


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams (Feb 25, 2013)

Rick said:


> Note to self: change vacation plans


+ Rep sir. That was hilarious.  
I would be pretty upset if porn was banned in the US, as I'm sure many other forumites would be.


----------



## Rick (Feb 25, 2013)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> + Rep sir. That was hilarious.
> I would be pretty upset if porn was banned in the US, as I'm sure many other forumites would be.



If internet porn was banned in the US, I have a feeling we'd have more members posting here a lot more.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams (Feb 25, 2013)

^ The chatroom wouldn't be nearly as exciting either. All of those dick pics...mmmmmmm.


----------



## Rick (Feb 25, 2013)

Maybe we'd finally get those nudes of Randy.


----------



## The Omega Cluster (Feb 25, 2013)

I am personally divided on the matter.
While I am not a porn consumer (not even internet porn), I understand that some people are making money out of it, and there's an economy based on this.

More so, if the government would try to nationalize internet porn, so that every porn movie comes from the government, or must pass through a governmental group or bureau somehow, the Icelandic government could make a lot of income out of it!

I also know that some internet porn shows disrespect for women, men, children, and maybe even animals. Those could get rid of by banning internet porn, or nationalizing the porn industry.

Finally, I believe that some porn movies must be made with respect to all parties involved, and with no excess in any kind. Maybe call this the "good" porn, compared to the violent and/or disrespectful one. I think that banning porn might restrain some people from freeing their artistic side (actors/actresses, etc) and other people to enjoy watching porn movies, but that doing nothing about porn as it is right now is also not correct, since there are excesses being made.

The nationalization or regulation of porn should be the best way to handle it.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams (Feb 25, 2013)

Rick said:


> Maybe we'd finally get those nudes of Randy.


One can only dream


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams (Feb 25, 2013)

@ The Omega Cluster
Could you imagine government produced porn? I can't not think about John McCain and Hilary Clinton in some raunchy porn  Oh god I'm sick.


----------



## Rick (Feb 25, 2013)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> @ The Omega Cluster
> Could you imagine government produced porn? I can't not think about John McCain and Hilary Clinton in some raunchy porn  Oh god I'm sick.



I'll take Meghan McCain in a porn.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams (Feb 25, 2013)

Get a lil' Ebony and Ivory action with John Boehner and Michelle Obama.  I keed I keed.
I'm kinda scared now, if I keep posting these I have a feeling some government agencies might start monitoring me. 

There ya go Rick.


----------



## Rick (Feb 25, 2013)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> There ya go Rick.



Yes please.


----------



## ilyti (Feb 25, 2013)

Of all places... ICELAND? I've learned something new today.. apparently porn is already illegal in Iceland, but trying to extend that to the internet seems like a very difficult proposition. I know it's not entirely related, but I figured they were a pretty progressive country, having had a lesbian prime minister.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams (Feb 25, 2013)

Man porn is illegal there already? I missed that part. Poor guys.


----------



## groph (Feb 25, 2013)

I think it's hilarious how, while reading that article, I was distracted 3 or 4 times by the articles off to the side pertaining to Anne Hathaway's nipples and Jennifer Lawrence's sideboob.

So this opinion will be totally unbiased!

I'm not convinced that porn itself is a terrible thing. I don't agree with legislation aimed at banning any kind of porn, with the exception of child porn and bestiality because animals and children can't consent to sex.

Sexual violence, however, is a problem, and it's impossible to sit here and say that porn doesn't promote or at least depict such violence. At least in mainstream boy-girl stuff there's a whole lot of choking, violent fucking, facials, really rough anal, I don't need to explain this to a forum full of dudes, come on. 

I'm also not convinced that porn is an instrument of male supremacy. Yes, lots of porn is out there that depicts things like rape and physical violence, as well as a general trend in a lot of mainstream porn that portrays women as catering to the supposed male desire or to the male gaze. There's also an entire world of porn out there that isn't like that at all. Feminists have made porn, LGBTQ organizations have produced it, there's the BDSM community, there's "female friendly" porn, there's male actors like James Deen who all the girls love and plenty of "girl power" stars like Stoya or Sasha Gray who seem to put forward a kind of empowered female sexuality. Porn as a form of media, at least in the US/the West has become really diversified (although ethnic minorities are probably still pretty underrepresented, most porn I've seen has been white). It's so diverse it's probably arguable that it's possible for somebody to structure their entire life of sexual expression around porn and actually get along okay.

Basically I think anti porn legislators need to get a clue.


----------



## abandonist (Feb 25, 2013)

The Omega Cluster said:


> I am personally divided on the matter.
> While I am not a porn consumer (not even internet porn), I understand that some people are making money out of it, and there's an economy based on this.
> 
> More so, if the government would try to nationalize internet porn, so that every porn movie comes from the government, or must pass through a governmental group or bureau somehow, the Icelandic government could make a lot of income out of it!
> ...



You sound like a sensitive prude.

Your definition of porn is not my definition of porn. Whose should we use to regulate? 

The idea about outlawing anything will not make it any less common. It just won't be filmed.


----------



## Alberto7 (Feb 25, 2013)

As somebody who lived in a country where the government blocks access to all porn and/or explicit-material websites... it fucking sucks. Not because I live off of porn and rub one off 8 times a day, but because porn is everywhere. Even on websites that aren't porn at all. The Bahraini government (said country where I lived) blocks websites that have even the slightest explicit content, thus making it really annoying, and limiting your search results. I was almost surprised SSO hadn't been banned already, and was fearing the day when it would get banned (thankfully that day never came). It's nearly impossible to ban internet porn without having a lot of collateral damage. If people won't be pleased with internet porn itself being banned, I can't imagine how angry they'd be if they got porn AND half of the internet blocked.


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Feb 25, 2013)

Internet porn is ostensibly illegal here in South Korea. Can a gov't stop ALL porn? Apparently not, no, but they're sure making a go of it. There must be a dedicated group of South Korean government employees whose job it is to seek out internet porn sites and add them to the list of sites the government filters. Sometimes I'll stumble across a site that hasn't been found yet, but I have to enjoy it while I can, because they're usually discovered and blocked within a week's time.

There's a big but here,though: Anyone with a VPN can just go to whatever the hell raunchy porn site they want to, because that gets you around the government block. I'd imagine it's the same elsewhere, so all hope isn't lost, Icelanders.


----------



## Alberto7 (Feb 25, 2013)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Internet porn is ostensibly illegal here in South Korea. Can a gov't stop ALL porn? Apparently not, no, but they're sure making a go of it. There must be a dedicated group of South Korean government employees whose job it is to seek out internet porn sites and add them to the list of sites the government filters. Sometimes I'll stumble across a site that hasn't been found yet, but I have to enjoy it while I can, because they're usually discovered and blocked within a week's time.
> 
> There's a big but here,though: Anyone with a VPN can just go to whatever the hell raunchy porn site they want to, because that gets you around the government block. I'd imagine it's the same elsewhere, so all hope isn't lost, Icelanders.



It is EXACTLY like that in Bahrain.


----------



## pink freud (Feb 26, 2013)

Over my cold scantily-clad body (you have to pay extra for me to play dead).


----------



## GatherTheArsenal (Feb 26, 2013)

Wow that just reeks of double standards... what are they gonna do next, ban violent movies and video games because kids can do a Google search on "violent movies or games?" Or violent sports? Etc. Some societies just don't make sense. 

Has anyone in Iceland even looked into what kind of adverse effects (if any) looking at hardcore porn at a young age would do? Seems to me like this whole thing is running off of fear of what "could" happen as opposed to what has? I understand preventative measures are needed sometimes to stop horrible things before they happen, but porn...?!?! Really dudes???  i mean i saw hardcore porn as early as 12 years old, you don't see me tying up girls, slapping women with foreign objects and raping women in their bums. Don't mean to be vulgar (woo pantera yay) but i'm just sayin'... it's a bit weird.


----------



## Leuchty (Feb 26, 2013)

What cracks me up is the Japanese porn with the censor blur...

I mean whats the point?


----------



## mcd (Feb 26, 2013)

CYBERSYN said:


> What gets me really hard is the Japanese porn with the censor blur...
> 
> I mean whats that shit is hot



I know typing one handed is hard so I fixed it for you


you're welcome


----------



## Leuchty (Feb 26, 2013)

Hahahaha...

Fucker...


----------



## Leuchty (Feb 26, 2013)

mcd said:


> I ____ one handed, ____ is hard so I ____ it for you
> 
> 
> you're well ____



Hmmm... I think you're trying to tell me something


----------



## mcd (Feb 26, 2013)

^I think you get the idea sweet cheeks


----------



## Jakke (Feb 26, 2013)

If porn was banned in the US, I'm sure we'd have more... _members_ on this board...


OT; the porn industry is one of the largest industries in the world, I'm sure they would find a way to get past the filters.


----------



## Xaios (Feb 26, 2013)

This kinda surprises me. I'm certainly no authority on Iceland, but I'd heard that it was a fairly progressive place. I guess that assumption is somewhat off.


----------



## Mexi (Feb 26, 2013)

Maybe they should address the issue of 12 year olds having unrestricted internet access. why not make porn filtering software mandatory on public computers and to possibly offer subsidies for parents to use software at home. I mean, if the concern is children being exposed to sexual violence, then prevent them from accessing such material. the only thing measures like this do is alleviate personal responsibility from parents that should be responsible for their kids. It also removes the need to educate kids about sexuality and context.

Also for you prudes out there, women are making up an increasingly large market of porn consumers (one of the CEOs of a porn production company is a woman, forget which one) So there is nothing inherently misogynistic about porn, but the types of porn that are available. bear in mind, commercially available porn is consensual and any violence is simulated. Most of it plays on the broader BDSM culture where violence and sex find a comfortable balance.

Also, if it were not for the porn industry, we'd still be running on dial up


----------



## Nykur_Myrkvi (Feb 26, 2013)

As an Icelander myself I can say that I don't expect this to go through just as it didn't go through when they talked about banning all tobacco.

I think it's a dangerous game to play, banning pornography as the definition of what exactly is pornography could lead to some ridiculous bans.

People need to have better control of what their kids do on the computer rather than the government controlling all of us.


----------



## possumkiller (Feb 26, 2013)

Sweet Jesus! Maybe its time for a long and expensive illegal invasion and occupation of Iceland at the expense of the taxpayers so we can keep the ban from spreading to America?


----------



## possumkiller (Feb 26, 2013)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Man porn is illegal there already? I missed that part. Poor guys.


 
I don't think its just man porn. I think they are trying to ban all porn.


----------



## flexkill (Feb 26, 2013)

I read somewhere a while back that if internet porn access was taken away, that people who struggle with sexually violent crimes would act out on their urges more instead of just rubbing one out...IDK


----------



## Leuchty (Feb 26, 2013)

possumkiller said:


> I don't think its just man porn. I think they are trying to ban all porn.


----------



## Overtone (Feb 26, 2013)

This thread makes me realize that at some point when I have a son I'll have to say something like "You know when I was your age we had to be sneaky enough to manage to buy a magazine and read it in the woods before we burned the evidence! You kids have it easy!"


----------



## Nykur_Myrkvi (Feb 26, 2013)

possumkiller said:


> I don't think its just man porn. I think they are trying to ban all porn.


Firstly, I laughed out loud.

Secondly: I think even IF the law passes given my experience with these things (law enforcement in Iceland, not porn, I'll save that for a better day) I think they'd have a hard time enforcing it.

Porn is technically illegal but it's sold in more than one place, even advertised openly.

It's illegal to drink in public but after traveling quite a bit I've never witnessed as vulgar a display of public drinking as downtown Reykjavík in the weekend.

The local copyright crimefighters Smáís stopped trying to enforce anti-piracy laws and now we all pay a small tax in our internet fees that actually accounts for some illegal downloading. They started that trend with the writable CD's originally, that's why they're expensive as hell here.


----------



## The Omega Cluster (Feb 26, 2013)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> @ The Omega Cluster
> Could you imagine government produced porn? I can't not think about John McCain and Hilary Clinton in some raunchy porn  Oh god I'm sick.



Swedish government funds porn film - Telegraph

This article shows one case, but the Swedish government funds porn movies where there is equality between sexes, and respect. I'm sure they make a lot of money out of this.


----------



## Jakke (Feb 26, 2013)

Holy fuck, my country never ceases to amaze me....


----------



## The Omega Cluster (Feb 26, 2013)

abandonist said:


> You sound like a sensitive prude.
> 
> Your definition of porn is not my definition of porn. Whose should we use to regulate?
> 
> The idea about outlawing anything will not make it any less common. It just won't be filmed.



Also, 

Did you even read what I wrote?

Making things illegal sure doesn't mean that they will magically go away and disappear, but it will most probably discourage most from doing it.


----------



## leftyguitarjoe (Feb 26, 2013)

All porn ever did was make it really hard to finish when having sex with a person that wasnt myself 

Got used to it though


----------



## TheBigGroove (Feb 27, 2013)

at the dorms my freshman year of college (UW) we actually had to sign a contract that we would not "exceed bandwidth limit on adult websites" and they also distrubuted a lot of info on "adult video streams" still being a spyware threat   I wouldn't have minded if they banned pron sites ion campus servers...maybe I wouldn't have caught my roommate (apply named 'chubby the diabetic boy') wackin' off so much 

Edit:


leftyguitarjoe said:


> All porn ever did was make it really hard to finish when having sex with a person that wasnt myself
> 
> Got used to it though



aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah jesus christ that's funny


----------



## Rook (Feb 27, 2013)

The Omega Cluster said:


> I am personally divided on the matter.
> While I am clearly not an average male human being, I understand that loads of people people are making money out of porn, and there's an economy based on this.
> 
> More so, if the government would try to ruin internet porn, so that every porn movie comes from the government, or must pass through a governmental group or bureau somehow, the Icelandic government could make a lot of sad pants!
> ...



Fixed that.

I'm sorry but people have the right to do what they want, making porn isn't hurting anyone (not involuntarily anyway ). If it is hurting someone that's a separate issue and should be treated as such. People have sex, it's a natural thing, if people wanna do it in weird and wonderful ways and share that, great for them, if you have any sense you don't just accidentally get porned in the face just by opening Firefox/Safari/Chrome/whatever. If people wanna make money out of others willing to have sex on camera, great for them, usually nobody's forcing anyone.

Like I say, crime as a result of porn is one thing, but outright banning it because you don't like it for some prudish, bizarre reason is just daft. I realise you have as much of a right to an opinion as I do, I don't wish to detract from that, but I flat out don't agree.

I feel the same about drugs, if people wanna get wasted, good for them, if they commit crime as a result, that's when I give a shit.




possumkiller said:


> I don't think its just man porn. I think they are trying to ban all porn.



I DIED


----------



## leftyguitarjoe (Feb 27, 2013)

TheBigGroove said:


> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah jesus christ that's funny



Its true though


----------



## Captain Shoggoth (Feb 27, 2013)

as a 17-year-old single dude the concept of this makes me sad

people really need to educate themselves on this shit too, regarding the potential problems resulting from young exposure to porn, I started watching when I was like 13-14? (christ that sounds fucked up hahahaha) and I find the idea of violence towards women (sexual or otherwise) repugnant in the highest degree


----------



## The Omega Cluster (Feb 27, 2013)

Rook said:


> Fixed that.
> 
> I'm sorry but people have the right to do what they want, making porn isn't hurting anyone (not involuntarily anyway ). If it is hurting someone that's a separate issue and should be treated as such. People have sex, it's a natural thing, if people wanna do it in weird and wonderful ways and share that, great for them, if you have any sense you don't just accidentally get porned in the face just by opening Firefox/Safari/Chrome/whatever. If people wanna make money out of others willing to have sex on camera, great for them, usually nobody's forcing anyone.
> 
> ...



I don't think anyone gets my point here. I'm not being prudish here, I acknowledge this exists and all, and I don't give a shit really. I'm just saying that the best they could do is nationalize it or put laws in place to ensure that it's done right, like any other artistic/commercial portion of the society and economy.


----------



## -42- (Feb 27, 2013)

^Porn is already regulated dude. (At least the stuff put out by studios is)

Banning stuff to keep it away from kids is basically the dumbest thing ever. It just makes them go out of their way to get their little mitts on it.


----------



## JamesM (Feb 28, 2013)

Rick said:


> Maybe we'd finally get those nudes of Randy.



If we do, there _is_ a god.


----------



## Rook (Feb 28, 2013)

-42- said:


> ^Porn is already regulated dude. (At least the stuff put out by studios is)
> 
> Banning stuff to keep it away from kids is basically the dumbest thing ever. It just makes them go out of their way to get their little mitts on it.



This. It's not a free roaming, unregulated industry you can be sure of that.


----------



## The Omega Cluster (Feb 28, 2013)

[some] Porn websites are like youtube : anyone can upload their videos

edit : [some]


----------



## -42- (Mar 1, 2013)

The Omega Cluster said:


> [some] Porn websites are like youtube : anyone can upload their videos
> 
> edit : [some]



Like youtube, they're also moderated and offensive content can be flagged and removed. I'm not sure how you can have an informed opinion as to what content is and isn't easily available given that you have outright stated that you aren't a porn consumer.


----------



## Randy (Mar 1, 2013)

Rick said:


> Maybe we'd finally get those nudes of Randy.





AngstRiddenDreams said:


> One can only dream





JamesM said:


> If we do, there _is_ a god.



I opt to stay out of a thread for a couple days and this is what happens.


----------



## Jakke (Mar 1, 2013)

I think it is funny that people claim porn is "unregulated". What people see as unsavoury is not the same as unregulated madness, which some people seems to imply. 
If you want to test the regulations of the porn industry, I would recommend you to try and get hold of some child porn, porn depicting real non-consenual sex (i.e. rape), or a snuff film (these seems to be urban legends, but they are actually illegal to possess regardless).

Much in porn is kosher as long as there is consent involved, but there are tons of regulations as well.


*EDIT* Just as a disclaimer, please don't try and access illegal material, and if you do, please keep my name out of it. Never can be too sure


----------



## groph (Mar 3, 2013)

Jakke said:


> I think it is funny that people claim porn is "unregulated". What people see as unsavoury is not the same as unregulated madness, which some people seems to imply.
> If you want to test the regulations of the porn industry, I would recommend you to try and get hold of some child porn, porn depicting real non-consenual sex (i.e. rape), or a snuff film (these seems to be urban legends, but they are actually illegal to possess regardless).
> 
> Much in porn is kosher as long as there is consent involved, but there are tons of regulations as well.
> ...



Yeah that's an important point. Porn is regulated like hell, and people who "act" in porn are screened thoroughly to conform to really exacting health standards. Rates of STIs are ridiculously low, probably a lot lower than that of the general population because the setting of porn is so controlled.

It's also relevant in a discussion about the morality or ethics of porn especially when you consider something like child porn. I've seen people actually try to argue that possessing/watching child porn isn't harming anybody.

Wow.


----------



## AxeHappy (Mar 3, 2013)

groph said:


> I've seen people actually try to argue that possessing/watching child porn isn't harming anybody.



No way. I refuse to believe. 


Seriously? I...wow...fuck...

Did you stick them with a knife? Fuck.


----------



## groph (Mar 4, 2013)

AxeHappy said:


> No way. I refuse to believe.
> 
> 
> Seriously? I...wow...fuck...
> ...



Just to entertain their argument here's how it goes.

Sitting in your basement whacking it to kiddie porn doesn't do any harm, much like how I'm not harming anybody at this very moment. And no, merely watching a video on those simple grounds alone doesn't cause any harm, not in any immediate sense.

Let's just ignore that there was a child exploited in the making of the video so that means you're okay with that, and you're also okay with children being harmed in the future as more child porn is made because there's an audience for it.

Basically these people think that, because they're not the only consumers of child porn, how can anybody point the finger at THEM personally for any harm? it's like a diffusion of responsibility. It's kind of sort of roughly analogous to the meat industry, what does it matter if I eat meat or not, the industry is going to continue regardless of MY eating habits so I might as well eat meat.

There are some serious mental gymnastics such people would have to do in order to soothe their cognitive dissonance. If you ask me, if you're attracted to children please holy shit do not ever act on those impulses and hopefully there's an avenue where you can go to get help. Pedophiles are public enemy number one and I have zero sympathy for somebody who sexually abuses a child. I also don't believe in prosecuting somebody who hasn't committed a crime so yeah - these people need professional help.

So maybe a concession or compromise (I feel like throwing up) could be made and we'll say it's okay to watch animated child porn, I think there's a subgenre of hentai that is pretty much that or when technology allows, really realistic CGI child porn. Even here I have serious reservations as such material would still encourage predation, right?

But, isn't the "allure" of said porn in the predation on children? Being in that position of power over a more or less helpless child? You're the big grownup who is just playing "a little game" with a kid. "Artificial" child porn would (might) satisfy the argument that just watching a video alone harms nobody since no actual people were involved in the making of the porn but it won't be able to recreate the exploitation, the power dynamic that pedophiles probably thrive on.

Like Jakke was saying, the ethic of porn basically HAS to be grounded in consent and you're off your fucking chair if you're arguing children can consent to being involved in child porn. What children might do with one another (which is pretty normal) is one thing but being forced into an adult situation that will be read (viewed) by adults on adult grounds with adult interpretations is totally another matter. To bring this (unintentionally) dark post back around to the topic of the thread it's got to be about consent and absofuckinglutely does porn need to be regulated. What's out there now is even democratized to an extent - actors have a pretty good degree of creative freedom and some often go on to become producers themselves so it's hard to make the argument that all porn is exploitative. Child porn is just a dark reality, it's out there and people do defend it.


----------



## ilyti (Mar 4, 2013)

groph said:


> So maybe a concession or compromise (I feel like throwing up) could be made and we'll say it's okay to watch animated child porn, I think there's a subgenre of hentai that is pretty much that or when technology allows, really realistic CGI child porn. Even here I have serious reservations as _*such **material would still encourage predation*_, right?



That's what society's attitude used to be towards any kind of porn. The argument being, if you are feeding your eyes and your mind with images of sexual deviancy (a rather grey area nowadays) then you will slowly but surely be motivated to do the things you are watching. Regardless of what those acts are specifically. It seems to be the attitude now that if it's exploitative of women, somebody will watch it, and justify their viewpoint. If it's bestiality porn, there will be someone watching it and justifying why that isn't considered animal abuse. And eventually, those freaks will graduate to the worst kind of exploitative porn, that of children. These people didn't just wake up one day and say "I'm attracted to little kids, I'm going to watch kiddie porn." It always, always grows from porn that is perceived as nonexploitive. Maybe they found their dad's Playboys way too young, and their entire view of sexuality was influenced at a young age. It's unfortunate, but yeah, it happens. So the moral of the story is, be careful of what you watch, and how it may be affecting you.


----------



## Sofos (Mar 4, 2013)

Ban porn?!


----------



## groph (Mar 4, 2013)

ilyti said:


> That's what society's attitude used to be towards any kind of porn. The argument being, if you are feeding your eyes and your mind with images of sexual deviancy (a rather grey area nowadays) then you will slowly but surely be motivated to do the things you are watching. Regardless of what those acts are specifically. It seems to be the attitude now that if it's exploitative of women, somebody will watch it, and justify their viewpoint. If it's bestiality porn, there will be someone watching it and justifying why that isn't considered animal abuse. And eventually, those freaks will graduate to the worst kind of exploitative porn, that of children. These people didn't just wake up one day and say "I'm attracted to little kids, I'm going to watch kiddie porn." It always, always grows from porn that is perceived as nonexploitive. Maybe they found their dad's Playboys way too young, and their entire view of sexuality was influenced at a young age. It's unfortunate, but yeah, it happens. So the moral of the story is, be careful of what you watch, and how it may be affecting you.



That's true and that's also an argument some feminists put forth during the "sex wars" - that porn is exploitative by nature and it will inevitably encourage exploitative behaviour.

That could very well be the case but I don't think porn is necessarily exploitative because we're dealing with beings with full agency - not children. There's a different power dynamic between adults and children and that's the distinction between adult porn and child porn.

Of course, some porn is exploitative, I'm not trying to bullshit anyone and the agency of the viewer is something of a wild variable. How do we know that somebody watching even the most "liberationist" or "female friendly" or whatever porn is going to get the message or even care about the message?


----------



## Jakke (Mar 4, 2013)

groph said:


> So maybe a concession or compromise (I feel like throwing up) could be made and we'll say it's okay to watch animated child porn, I think there's a subgenre of hentai that is pretty much that or when technology allows, really realistic CGI child porn. Even here I have serious reservations as such material would still encourage predation, right?
> 
> But, isn't the "allure" of said porn in the predation on children? Being in that position of power over a more or less helpless child? You're the big grownup who is just playing "a little game" with a kid. "Artificial" child porn would (might) satisfy the argument that just watching a video alone harms nobody since no actual people were involved in the making of the porn but it won't be able to recreate the exploitation, the power dynamic that pedophiles probably thrive on.



I can't believe I'm discussing this on this forum again (it's a disease really, and a case of absolutely no self-preservation instinct), but I have less of a problem with paedos using cartoon CP. This is my rationale:
-No one is a paedophile by choice, the strongest evidence seems to indicate that it is something you are born with (even though it can be helped to some degree by CBT), there are for example biological markers for a paedophile, such as short lenght, non-righthandedness, and having many older siblings. It's in our culture to paint them as degenerate monsters (which I can't really blame people for, they are after all associated with child molestation, one of the greatest crimes against the most precious we have), but we might have to start to change that perception. 
-Paedophiles are sexually attracted to children, and probably not by the thought of dominating a small child (not saying there aren't any, but in that case I'd submit they are very specific sadists instead)
-Cartoon CP can be made, and I would guess, is mainly made without exploiting children.

Ergo, I would see it as maybe a permissible evil to use it to let paedophiles "blow off some steam" (can't believe I'm saying this...). We've all seen what sexual frustration can make a person do, with catholic priests, boy scout leaders and whatnot, so maybe access to materials suited to their... "taste" made without harming anyone can actually protect children?

It's unsavoury, but I would personally suggest a pragmatic approach in this case...


----------



## Grand Moff Tim (Mar 4, 2013)

Explorer's totally going to call the cops on you now, Jakke.


----------



## Jakke (Mar 4, 2013)

Damn


The thought police was working hard that day though..


----------



## groph (Mar 4, 2013)

Jakke said:


> I can't believe I'm discussing this on this forum again (it's a disease really, and a case of absolutely no self-preservation instinct), but I have less of a problem with paedos using cartoon CP. This is my rationale:
> -No one is a paedophile by choice, the strongest evidence seems to indicate that it is something you are born with (even though it can be helped to some degree by CBT), there are for example biological markers for a paedophile, such as short lenght, non-righthandedness, and having many older siblings. It's in our culture to paint them as degenerate monsters (which I can't really blame people for, they are after all associated with child molestation, one of the greatest crimes against the most precious we have), but we might have to start to change that perception.
> -Paedophiles are sexually attracted to children, and probably not by the thought of dominating a small child (not saying there aren't any, but in that case I'd submit they are very specific sadists instead)
> -Cartoon CP can be made, and I would guess, is mainly made without exploiting children.
> ...



Yeah I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with what either of us have said regarding this ..subtopic I guess.

The bolded point is a big question, would providing cartoon or simulated CP reduce actual instances of child sexual assault? Was it sexual frustration that drove said priests and boy scout leaders to assault children? And of course, simulated CP wouldn't exploit actual children, no.

Also, "non righthandedness" is the most lulzy term for "lefthandedness" I've come across, nice one  I've seen some research done on possible physiological causes of pedophilia and as far as I know it's not all that well understood but I'm definitely no authority on the matter.

Treating pedophiles as you said, like degenerate monsters is another touchy (ergh) matter. Upon discovering someone is a pedophile I don't think that they should be thrown in jail unless there's evidence they've committed a crime. Sure they're a potential child molester but you and I are both potential murderers, right? They're not the same crime but you don't throw someone in jail without having a case against them. If research turned up a good case that suggests pedophilia was a legitimate orientation in the same way we think of hetero/homo/bisexuality, that'd be a shitstorm. I still think the case could, and should be made that such an orientation is harmful because I can't see how sex with a child could ever be consensual regardless if it's an "honest" sexual attraction to children or if it's an urge to dominate.

Part of me also wants to see pedophiles get (if possible) professional treatment and not be publicly castigated over something they had no control over. But, if pedophilia is an orientation like homosexuality, then wouldn't such therapy basically be like "reparative therapy" which we all pretty much agree doesn't work at all?

This shit's complicated.


EDIT: I guess ambidextrous is "non righthandedness" and not "lefthandedness" so if that's what you meant then okay.


----------



## Mexi (Mar 5, 2013)

groph said:


> I've seen people actually try to argue that possessing/watching child porn isn't harming anybody.



Indeed, look at political strategist Tom Flanagan not too long ago
Lisa Bui: Apalling Statements Catch Up With Former Political Strategist Tom Flanagan
_
In response to a comment raised about child pornography, Flanagan expressed "grave doubts" about "putting people into jail because of their taste in pictures." Flanagan also incites intense opposition from the audience when he made the remark that viewing child pornography did no harm. "It is a real issue of personal liberty, to what extent we put people in jail for doing something in which they do not harm another person."_

more importantly, how did Dr. Zaius make it into the CBC studio?


----------



## mcd (Mar 6, 2013)

I haven't checked this forum since I've blatantly propositioned CYBERSYN to be my "friend" and it's gone really deep.

Im just gonna throw this out there. 

I had to put my dog down of 15 years due to cancer. The vet told me he suffered and I didn't want that for the poor guy so me and my mom talked and decided that it was best for him. That dog was family to me and I loved it.

If pedophilia is really a disease that people suffer from, I say just put them down. As a father, and uncle I have no time to understand this "disease." When it comes to a adult's well being and a childs well being....child wins every time. 

Somethings cannot be justified, I understand wanting to find reason with such un-savior topics. I wish that all people were inherently good, and well meaning, this is just not the case sometime.


----------



## AngstRiddenDreams (Mar 6, 2013)

Grand Moff Tim said:


> Explorer's totally going to call the cops on you now, Jakke.


Better hide all of his porn.  

I fucking started this thread, and completely forgot about it. Come back to all of this. Never expected it to take off.


----------



## flint757 (Mar 6, 2013)

mcd said:


> I haven't checked this forum since I've blatantly propositioned CYBERSYN to be my "friend" and it's gone really deep.
> 
> Im just gonna throw this out there.
> 
> ...



_'Putting someone down'_ because you find a topic unsavory or _'don't care to understand it'_ is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Translate that loosely to anything else and you could be on the other end of that needle.

There are other alternatives anyhow if it got too bad for someone:


Therapy
Drugs
Chemical Castration
Hospitalization

that killing them just because you are uncomfortable and lazy is asinine. I can agree that in the instance a child is harmed that harsh actions like death penalty or life in prison or something would be appropriate, but you are talking about killing people over thoughts not actions. How many people do you know who are so horny you could peg them as potential rapists? How many people do you know with such rage issues they could be potential murderers? See what I mean. All because you don't feel like coming up with a real solution (not that it is anyone on here's responsibility since none of us write laws ).


----------



## Stealthtastic (Mar 6, 2013)

The Omega Cluster said:


> I am personally divided on the matter.
> While I am not a porn consumer (not even internet porn)




Umm.... I'm callin it


----------



## Jakke (Mar 6, 2013)

flint757 said:


> _'Putting someone down'_ because you find a topic unsavory or _'don't care to understand it'_ is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Translate that loosely to anything else and you could be on the other end of that needle.
> 
> There are other alternatives anyhow if it got too bad for someone:
> 
> ...



You just said what I was going to say
With the same logic, every man attracted to adults is a potential rapist (and I have heard feminist hypothesis claim the very same thing as a matter of fact)

But I think that it is very important to point out that child molestation should be dealt with as strictly as possible.


----------



## -42- (Mar 6, 2013)

ilyti said:


> These people didn't just wake up one day and say "I'm attracted to little kids, I'm going to watch kiddie porn."


Actually this is exactly what happens.

Besides, we aren't talking child porn here, we're referring to regular old "2+ consenting adults have sex on camera" porn.


----------



## ilyti (Mar 6, 2013)

^ Pls explain.


----------



## Mexi (Mar 7, 2013)

I think he meant the purpose of this thread, which was to discuss the ban of consensual, mainstream pornography in Iceland. Not the problem with child porn, which works under a completely different legal and ethical framework


----------



## Jakke (Mar 7, 2013)

I do think that it was in regards to the "that is actually how it works". And -42- is correct, I'm sure there are paedophiles who wake up in the morning thinking "hmmm, I'm sexually attracted to children, I think I'll watch some child porn". But only technically correct, as that was not what the post was about

I agree with what ilyti *really* said (-42- ), the attraction to children is not something that is aquired; as in "one does not go to bed one day as a non-paedophile, and wake up the following morning as one"


----------



## ilyti (Mar 8, 2013)

^ That's basically what I meant to say, sorry for the confusion. I get that there are (at least) two ways that people can come to become child porn addicts - either they were "regular," probably heterosexual porn fans in the first place, but they became addicted, and allowed themselves to be driven to bigger and bigger "thrills," which eventually led to watching violence against children. And then there are those who may have been born with a predisposition towards that, er, orientation, if that's what we're calling it.


----------



## -42- (Mar 8, 2013)

The way I read that post is that you were implying that pedophiles inherit their sexual attraction to children from online porn, as opposed to the fact that they are inherently physically attracted to minors, which research suggests is the case.


----------



## The Omega Cluster (Mar 23, 2013)

Reading this made me think of this thread Is Pornography Driving Men Crazy? by Naomi Wolf - Project Syndicate


----------



## Andromalia (Mar 30, 2013)

CYBERSYN said:


> What cracks me up is the Japanese porn with the censor blur...
> 
> I mean whats the point?


Cultural memes. It's as useless as a 270M inhabitants country unable to spell doughnut, but there is a history behind that. 
Not all societies have the same view of sex, the japanese for exemple talk about it much more freely than judeo-christian people for whom sex is a relatively taboo topic in itsef in public conversation. There was a porn video vending machine in the street between my place and the Sugamo JR station. But no pubic hairs allowed, and shaving pubic hairs is seen as extremely distateful in Japan so there's no way out.


----------

