# Using BASS VI as E-E guitar baritone....? thinner strings as a variable (to those experienced in dow



## Petar (Aug 3, 2020)

Hello...
Long time since i was here...adn was always super informative place...so i am here with this dilemma if my thinking is on the right track...

Here is an attempt of a short version to describe where my mind is at this point regarding:

I am after a 6 string instrument, able to tune octave bellow the guitar: E1-E2, yet if possible to be able to retain "guitar like" character while at it. as much as possible...

(because i do love the sludgy blurry chords, at some moments... (which do sound too raspy, separated..hard to explain... on bass guitars, shorter or regular scaled bass guitars, that is...even when in higher registers..i have a6 string bass, 34 scale..)

My best bet, i guess, would be a long scale baritone..28-30 inches ballpark... Danelectro 56 is beautiful.. Ibanez 28 inch is completely different, modern take, still a beauty...

Yet, while considering options...being the most affordable and still very cool guitar, Harley Benton take on Fender bass VI, a 30 inch tunomatic seems like something which could be a good platform. for my idea..

Scale is 30 inch, it comes E-E, with default strings being 024, .034, .044, .056, .072, .084, bass VI set

In my opinion, this would NOT provide what i am after, due to thick strings, would give me more Bass- like character...which it was intended for, ok..great..but not what i am after.. i had a Squier Bass VIat hand for short period, and while very cool for what it is...that is not really what i am after..but haven't tried to use thinner -> guitar strings on it, and try to use that scaling of 30 for it with something like 14-68 and see how far and how tight it could go...


Sp, a new turn, and been exploring again on teh idea, and doing calculations on beautiful winspear calculator, i got results that to be able to have parallel tension as 9-42 E standard on a Strat would be 15-70 gauge on 30 inches...

Aside of nut slots, and baritone guitar string set (14-68 being easy to get for starters), i have idea that Bass VI could would work what i am after..? and get a lot more guitar like character...
aforementioned HB bass VI has 3x single coils of some kind, which is perfect, to add bite..spacing is narrow...so i think this could work...

Am i on a good path of understanding this?
Any input truly appreciated

Thank you!





Som history behind idea...

Been using B standard for ages, like 10 years... (on a 6 string..had quite a bit of 7s, yet, for me, my playing is accustomed for everything 6 string...related to my perspective on the instrument, open string chords related to Standard tuning among most important things...etc etc)

Recently got my hands on 8 string, 27 scale (actually fanfret, but that's offtopic)

I really like the feel of the low grunt it does, even with stock strings, i think 74, for low F#.....
Which got me wondering to go for it once again, to get an instrument able to do a E-E (E1-E2) thing, while being as much as guitar-like while at it (since squier bass VI was not what i was after..although, once again, i will say, really cool instrument)


Hope my posting was comprehensible to some of you at least...
Its been really longtime since i was excited regarding again experimenting with the tuning, so looking forward to some new findings...!
Thanks


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## Carl Kolchak (Aug 3, 2020)

Schecter makes a 30" bass vi with EMGs. 

You might also want to look into something from Agile as well.


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## Petar (Aug 3, 2020)

Carl Kolchak said:


> Schecter makes a 30" bass vi with EMGs.
> 
> You might also want to look into something from Agile as well.


Thing is that i am not sure if bass VI is really what could deliver what i need..
That is the core of the problem...if it will function nicely, aside of need for new nutslots, with guitar strings E1-E2

Yes, luckily there are many options...but first need to be sure if that as i do not want a genuine Bass VI


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## Carl Kolchak (Aug 3, 2020)

Petar said:


> Thing is that i am not sure if bass VI is really what could deliver what i need..
> That is the core of the problem...if it will function nicely, aside of need for new nutslots, with guitar strings E1-E2
> 
> Yes, luckily there are many options...but first need to be sure if that as i do not want a genuine Bass VI


Well, unless you want to use some really heavy gauge strings then you're going to need that 30" scale for E1.


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## Petar (Aug 3, 2020)

Yes... 
But is there anything else i may be overlooking... would it be able to bi intonated with guitar strings 14-68 in E1 standard on 30"..or anything else i may be unaware of..?


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## Señor Voorhees (Aug 3, 2020)

I mean, 30" is longer than 28", so if you can get away with lighter strings on a 28" scale, 30" should be able to utilize even thinner than 28" You'd definitely need new nut slots, and I'm not positive how well a tun-o-matic could be able to intonate with thinner strings, however. I owned a squier Bass VI and I actually just down tuned a whole step down and it sounded/intonated pretty decent. It did also help that I think the one I had had a switch that cut out a lot of the woofier bassier frequencies making it sound even more guitar-like and less bass-like. The lack of range on tune-o-matic bridges is the only thing that would give me pause, but you should be largely okay if you don't DRASTICALLY change the gauges.


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## budda (Aug 3, 2020)

Gonna toss this idea out and I don't expect it to go over great:

If you want to retain the guitar sound, what about a regular 6 into an octave pedal? I understand how the erg would change how you are playing etc (I have a pitch block but also a downtuned guitar) but it may be the right middle ground.

Feel free to tell me no


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## Señor Voorhees (Aug 3, 2020)

I LOVE octave pedals, but that's definitely not even nearly the same sound. lol Most of my music utilizes a guitar playing root note riffs along the main rhythm track with an octaver on it. I would be lost without an octave pedal.


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## budda (Aug 3, 2020)

Señor Voorhees said:


> I LOVE octave pedals, but that's definitely not even nearly the same sound. lol Most of my music utilizes a guitar playing root note riffs along the main rhythm track with an octaver on it. I would be lost without an octave pedal.



It's not the same sound, just trying to think of how to retain the guitar sound the OP wants.

May have to mess around I get home and do an octave down at 50% mix to see how it sounds.

Among other editing


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## Petar (Aug 3, 2020)

Señor Voorhees said:


> I mean, 30" is longer than 28", so if you can get away with lighter strings on a 28" scale, 30" should be able to utilize even thinner than 28"



My thoughts exactly...
BTW i am not crazy for thin strings or anything, just from all the retrospective and experience with the aforementioned BASS VI, it may be the key moment which makes the difference to the equation...
Thank you for sharing your experience and suggestion..sounds promising overall...!



budda said:


> Gonna toss this idea out and I don't expect it to go over great:
> 
> If you want to retain the guitar sound, what about a regular 6 into an octave pedal? I understand how the erg would change how you are playing etc (I have a pitch block but also a downtuned guitar) but it may be the right middle ground.
> 
> Feel free to tell me no


That is a good suggestion..rational..
I remember seeing morpheus drop tune video for the first time...one part of my brain was crazy happy...teh other half, kind of same reaction as for gibson robo tuners...not that bad, actually...just joking a bit..i saw it as a great tool when needed...

I am far from purist, yet with that said, id be happy to have a low E dedicated instrument (this 8 string was actually an attempt and experiment of rationalizing, and trying to make one fits all..keeping the E standard,which i need for recordings (top 6 strings) while having 7th + 8th for octave bellow (A and E respectively, for riffing which is my main thing)...
nice theory, yet in practice, its quite constrained and limiting to try working with riffs on 2 strings...even while all 8 being nicely in tune E minor being in E standard, i am still lacking open D or G yet in lower octaves, to complement the upper 2....
to sum up, it would come to some ridiculous construction of like 4+6 strings..which is yet again just a huge hybrid...but true reality check calls simply for 2 dedicated instruments, each optimized )...
with all this said, and its been a lot... A pedal is actually very very cool and simple idea.... and adds so much options... who knows, now its more back in my head... Thank you for reminder!
btw this vid sums it up quite nicely..love this channel, very thought out direction and info... love the guys music as well..!


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## Winspear (Aug 5, 2020)

I'm glad you found the calculator useful!

Yes- Bass VI are fantastic baritone guitars . Forget about Bass in the name - it's an 8 string without the trebles in every way as far as I'm concerned! Many of them 'djent' harder than modern metal guitars too I find - given the tendency towards single coil pickups and such often in the specs.
Yes stock Bass VI string tension tends toward more of a heavy tension - I would say personally the 30" scale is enough to keep that string gauge sounding alive and bright - but yes you can go lighter for a traditional guitar feel and it will sound very nice and spanky


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## Petar (Aug 5, 2020)

Winspear said:


> I'm glad you found the calculator useful!
> 
> Yes- Bass VI are fantastic baritone guitars . Forget about Bass in the name - it's an 8 string without the trebles in every way as far as I'm concerned! Many of them 'djent' harder than modern metal guitars too I find - given the tendency towards single coil pickups and such often in the specs.
> Yes stock Bass VI string tension tends toward more of a heavy tension - I would say personally the 30" scale is enough to keep that string gauge sounding alive and bright - but yes you can go lighter for a traditional guitar feel and it will sound very nice and spanky



Thank you for your reply, which absolutely goes hand in hand with my thoughts...
Honestly, been a long time since i have tried out that Squier Bass VI, so it is very hard to tell if i may supersizing the bass-like sounds i was getting out of it from this perspective...which would lead to overthinking the whole thing right now..
main factor it would actually my 6 string, 34" which is definitely world of a difference to electric guitar (of course, bass pickups, bass strings, bass scale)...so its own flavour may be tricking my memory of teh Bass VI..

as always, long story short, would be best to try...

But, prior doing that...today had some time to go deeper into my own idea of tuning the 8 string, 6+2 perspective, which is why i purchased it to test the idea...and it is going places...so still need to time ....as years of exploring 6 string in Standard tuning (whatever the root is) my home place, and i love the freedom i have at it...

Will try to do some longer term test comparison...and decide...
All the rest is theory...

Regarding teh CALCULATOR...oh man, i cannot thank enough for making it...its a gamechanging thing...
And so easy and intuitive to use...

So often there would be dillema when experimenting with tunings what would fit, what not...but now, man...its so easy..
although its still fucked to find strings in serbia of desired gauges...
and our customs are always unpredictable so each order outside sis a huge gamble...

yet, i am fully aware how much i owe you for that calculator..and i wish truly to at least in a way repay by ordering directly..would be pleasure...!


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## Thaeon (Aug 5, 2020)

Winspear said:


> I'm glad you found the calculator useful!
> 
> Yes- Bass VI are fantastic baritone guitars . Forget about Bass in the name - it's an 8 string without the trebles in every way as far as I'm concerned! Many of them 'djent' harder than modern metal guitars too I find - given the tendency towards single coil pickups and such often in the specs.
> Yes stock Bass VI string tension tends toward more of a heavy tension - I would say personally the 30" scale is enough to keep that string gauge sounding alive and bright - but yes you can go lighter for a traditional guitar feel and it will sound very nice and spanky



Single coils sound SIIICK for heavy, detuned riffs in that range. Underrated, and underused approach.


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## Petar (Aug 5, 2020)

Yes...absolutely..!
Eyeopener was a situation where i once tried Gibson Melody Maker Jr (one pickup version...single coil while at it)...i did a quick drop B...
Insane sound... Should've bought it than...was some discount at the time...but, damn...


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## Thaeon (Aug 5, 2020)

Petar said:


> Yes...absolutely..!
> Eyeopener was a situation where i once tried Gibson Melody Maker Jr (one pickup version...single coil while at it)...i did a quick drop B...
> Insane sound... Should've bought it than...was some discount at the time...but, damn...



When using my Oni, if I want something to have that stringy, percussive sound sometimes, I had it wired so position four is in Parallel for the bitey, single like sound. That with piles of gain... Super aggressive sounding.


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## Petar (Aug 5, 2020)

Thaeon said:


> When using my Oni, if I want something to have that stringy, percussive sound sometimes, I had it wired so position four is in Parallel for the bitey, single like sound. That with piles of gain... Super aggressive sounding.


Yes...that tele stingy bite and pinch!

Thats why i have chosen p90 actually for most of my tracks for years...


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## Winspear (Aug 5, 2020)

Petar said:


> yet, i am fully aware how much i owe you for that calculator..and i wish truly to at least in a way repay by ordering directly..would be pleasure...!



Thanks , dude! I'm not sure what the customs are like in Serbia but if it's any help to know, I always mark down value a lot for such countries - I'd probably label a set £5 on the envelope


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## ixlramp (Aug 5, 2020)

Petar said:


> to be able to have parallel tension as 9-42 E standard on a Strat would be 15-70 gauge on 30 inches...
> Aside of nut slots, and baritone guitar string set (14-68 being easy to get for starters), i have idea that Bass VI could would work what i am after..? and get a lot more guitar like character...


Yes, a Bass VI will do what you want, it is just a 30" guitar.
The nut slots will very probably be fine with thinner strings. It is a common misunderstanding that slots must snugly fit the gauges used. As long as there is downforce at the nut and the nut slots have curved slot floors they will work with any thinner gauge.


Petar said:


> But is there anything else i may be overlooking... would it be able to bi intonated with guitar strings 14-68 in E1 standard on 30"


Any guitar-type instrument can intonate gauges that are thinner than the intended gauges, because thinner gauges require less intonation offset than thicker gauges.

So, all you need is a 30" guitar and your choice of gauges.


Señor Voorhees said:


> You'd definitely need new nut slots, and I'm not positive how well a tun-o-matic could be able to intonate with thinner strings, however


You will very probably not need a new nut. Intonation is not a problem. See above.


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## Petar (Aug 5, 2020)

ixlramp said:


> Yes, a Bass VI will do what you want, it is just a 30" guitar.
> The nut slots will very probably be fine with thinner strings. It is a common misunderstanding that slots must snugly fit the gauges used. As long as there is downforce at the nut and the nut slots have curved slot floors they will work with any thinner gauge.
> 
> Any guitar-type instrument can intonate gauges that are thinner than the intended gauges, because thinner gauges require less intonation offset than thicker gauges.
> ...


Thank you..this was super informative...qnd affirmwtive..
Sincerely appreciated..!
In the meantime..today i fell in love with the 8 after finally having time to go deep dive i to it...
But definitely going to try to find the opportunity to get my hands on bass VI variant once again...
Will be extremely interesting to see...

Thank you all for invaluable help!


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## Bearitone (Aug 7, 2020)

A .084 string is not going to give you a “bass like character” you could up to .100 and still get “guitar” character as long as you have guitar pickups.

Regardless, because of the scale length you’ll probably be able to go down to like a .72 and still have enough tension to not be in flop city.

Get the Bass VI. I would personally do a single humbucker Warmoth Bass VI build but, The hellraiser VI will work too.


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## Petar (Aug 7, 2020)

Bearitone said:


> A .084 string is not going to give you a “bass like character” you could up to .100 and still get “guitar” character as long as you have guitar pickups.
> 
> Regardless, because of the scale length you’ll probably be able to go down to like a .72 and still have enough tension to not be in flop city.
> 
> Get the Bass VI. I would personally do a single humbucker Warmoth Bass VI build but, The hellraiser VI will work too.


Thanks for the input...
Since starting this thread, i was thinking a lot, and it is hard to remember the response i was getting from that Squier...and i actually most probably, subconsciously, transferred teh mpression from regular scale 6 string bass to it in too big increment...

Def need to give it a try and see head to head compared to 27' guitar..which is longest scale guitar i have currently for comparison...

I expect to be a Cadillac kind of difference, which may be super cool, as G on 27 is very nice... even F maybe ok..with larger strings, E as well... but 30" still should be Royal in comparison...

hope to get my hands soon on 30"..!


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## Demiurge (Aug 7, 2020)

I have the Squier and the Harley Benton Bass VI and, honestly, I kind of like the HB better. The Squier's fit and finish is nicer but I hated the pickups; I replaced them with Lace Sensors and it still doesn't quite gel with me. I unboxed the HB, plugged it in, and I was having a blast coming up with new riffs right-away. It was a stupid-cheap, too.


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## Petar (Aug 7, 2020)

Demiurge said:


> I have the Squier and the Harley Benton Bass VI and, honestly, I kind of like the HB better. The Squier's fit and finish is nicer but I hated the pickups; I replaced them with Lace Sensors and it still doesn't quite gel with me. I unboxed the HB, plugged it in, and I was having a blast coming up with new riffs right-away. It was a stupid-cheap, too.


I had it up my nose, but wasn't fast enough...
Next time...
I like the tuneomatic bridge better as well...

Thanks for sharing your experience...!

Wish they'd come in black...but for that price...its rude to want anything else, really


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Aug 7, 2020)

If you use pick it is not BASS. That is illegal.


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## Zhysick (Aug 7, 2020)

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> If you use pick it is not BASS. That is illegal.



Yeah, for the same reason as if you use condom then is not sex.


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## asopala (Aug 7, 2020)

r3tr0sp3ct1v3 said:


> If you use pick it is not BASS. That is illegal.


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## Petar (Aug 9, 2020)

Oh yes..i use a pick... i need the attack (and i am fkn slow with fingers...)


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