# Finally! Fishman Fluence open coils, err... core



## Stuck_in_a_dream (Jan 27, 2018)

Here:


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## lewis (Jan 27, 2018)

this is great but honestly Im so frustrated that so far, Fishman seem like the only company actually trying hard to be innovative. 

Where the hell are the new Duncan or EMG products that wow?. Bareknuckle released a cheap version of their line.... hardly screams wow either.
If they do all white open core 7 string pickups, I will probably grab a set for my Jackson.

Just annoying Fishman are the only ones working hard on new tech etc.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Jan 27, 2018)

They are also releasing Keith Merrow signature pickups, as open core, here is an image from Keith's Instagram.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jan 28, 2018)

Fudge. I just bought a sh1tload of moderns. lol


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## diagrammatiks (Jan 28, 2018)

nice. open coils will drop right into a strandberg prog 7. nice nice nice.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Jan 29, 2018)

Anderton's coverage, Fluence Classic open core short demo near the end around 14:34.


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## MASS DEFECT (Jan 30, 2018)

So are these just for classics?


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## Curt (Jan 30, 2018)

MASS DEFECT said:


> So are these just for classics?


From what I gathered, they are for now, and then they're supposed to work it across the rest of the line or something. Basically right now it's the classic and the merrow pickups.


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## Lemonbaby (Jan 30, 2018)

That two-pickups-in-one "package" idea is great (if you really need to play a Blue-gig and a Metal-gig within one hour and don't want to bring two guitars). I wish they wouldn't go so over the top with their marketing. At the end of the day, pickups are physically quite simple systems, there's a lot less magic involved than they make it sound. And the claim that their PCB concept takes inconsistencies out of the equation is simply not true...


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## MASS DEFECT (Jan 30, 2018)

Yeah, it does take manufacturing inconsistencies out. Since you just print identical PCBs vs hand winding or machine winding pickups.


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## Lemonbaby (Jan 30, 2018)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Yeah, it does take manufacturing inconsistencies out. Since you just print identical PCBs vs hand winding or machine winding pickups.


No. A standard FR4 has +/-10% on thickness, the copper metallization has 5% to 10% as well. And you'd be surprised that a modern automated coil winding machine can achieve the same tolerances on the final product. Even more complicated stuff like crosswound coils that minimize parasitic capacitance.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Jan 30, 2018)

^ hmm...interesting. I remember watching Frank Falbo on one of the Abasi clinics, and I know he works for Fishman and all, but in his words it's not just the tolerance. Basically he was saying, and I'm paraphrasing, that the new design allows the pickup designer to de-couple / disentangle several of the constraints that were inevitable with the coil approach. Like if an artist wants a certain frequency pronounced, then designer has to weigh this against other factors that will get affected in the process, not so much if at all with the new design. 

Also, the design and tweaking process is orders of magnitude faster, so artists can get feedback in real time, I have never heard that was ever possible with coil designs.


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## Albake21 (Jan 31, 2018)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ^ hmm...interesting. I remember watching Frank Falbo on one of the Abasi clinics, and I know he works for Fishman and all, but in his words it's not just the tolerance. Basically he was saying, and I'm paraphrasing, that the new design allows the pickup designer to de-couple / disentangle several of the constraints that were inevitable with the coil approach. Like if an artist wants a certain frequency pronounced, then designer has to weigh this against other factors that will get affected in the process, not so much if at all with the new design.
> 
> Also, the design and tweaking process is orders of magnitude faster, so artists can get feedback in real time, I have never heard that was ever possible with coil designs.


Yup I wen't to the Chicago Abasi/Fishman clinic. I was honestly super impressed with what I saw and heard.

Now if only they could make the Moderns in this "core" style.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Feb 1, 2018)

There's a more detailed account from Keith and Frank to shed a bit more light on the process, from KM sig thread, here's Keith's:
http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...signature-thread.252283/page-167#post-4834562


DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> Yeah I'm assuming the wording on that was a little rushed. The pickups weren't finished until right before NAMM. I didn't actually get to see the finished product until I went to their NAMM booth, haha. But, there's a lot more going on with these pickups than it seems. The way the Fishman tech works leaves it open to voicing them pretty much any way you want. But, we added custom "voicing plates" and programming to these that make them pretty different from any of their production models. As I mentioned earlier, the bridge pickup has 3 different flavors- fat and glassy single coil, a vintage "78 Brown Sound", and a modern high gain voice modeled after some silver-wound passive pickups I designed and used on the Alluvial album. We took that vibe and went even further with it, making them even more transparent and 3D. So, for the bridge, its vastly different than an off-the-shelf Classic Fluence. The starting point for voicing it was a ridiculously expensive custom bridge pickup, we just arrived at it by using the Classic platform and heavily modifying it. With the neck pickup, I liked the sound of the Classic, but we did a lot of tweaking to make it blend better with the bridge and gave it a more modern sound. It is a bit like a Sentient, but even better to my ears.
> 
> We used silver wound pickups as a starting point for both neck and bridge. So, they're pretty modern sounding.



....and here's Frank's follow-up:
http://www.sevenstring.org/threads/...signature-thread.252283/page-170#post-4835129


frank falbo said:


> Late to this thread but to clear up any misconceptions of the Fluence design and build process, I think we’ve been pretty consistent, and I’ve said in different interviews that there are a lot of things we won’t talk about, but the basics are pretty simple.
> 
> Like any pickup, the way the poles or blades interface with the strings will affect the feel of the pickup. So first off if someone like Keith says we started with the Classic architecture it means pole pieces instead of blades, and in his case Alnico magnets; did not switch to ceramic.
> 
> ...


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## MASS DEFECT (Feb 1, 2018)

You missed the best part. I want to see how they do this. I hope there is a Fluence Custom Shop in the future. 



DIOBOLIC5150 said:


> Voicing a Fluence is completely different than voicing a wound passive pickup. The technology is on a different level than anything else out there, and that's why I was so on board with it. Basically, they hook you up to a computer running custom software that analyzes the frequencies and response (all the way down to response time, or "sag"). When it comes to tweaking the Fluence, they can "write" the changes in real-time and update the firmware within the pickup, instantly. With a standard passive, you would wind one, install it, try it out... wind another, then eventually settle on _good enough. _With the Fluence, you can really split hairs and get it _exactly _the way it needs to be very quickly. So, we matched tones I already loved, then took it even further and fine tuned it for these pickups. For what I like, they're absolutely perfect. I didn't have to settle on anything.
> 
> I voiced these in one night with Frank Falbo at Tosin Abasi's home studio. That process would have taken months with a standard passive (trust me, I've done it many times haha).


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## Kyle Jordan (Feb 2, 2018)

Yep. Fluence Custom Shop would make me happy to an almost unhealthy extent.


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## Mathemagician (Feb 2, 2018)

I mean Duncan has added like at LEAST 4-5 new pickups that cater to the metal crowd in the last few years.

Nazgul, Sentient, Pegasus, Black Winter, Alpha/Omega, and probably some signature ones I’m missing.

I think Dimarzio is similar.

I don’t expect a new way to wrap copper around metal to find the newest best tone every 3 months.

It’s mostly been those with smaller lines ramping up their offerings.

Fluence is brand new tech, I think they have a lot of R&D runway left so I expect more out of that.

1-2 pickups a year from others is quite a bit considering the lineup size already IMO.


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## lewis (Feb 2, 2018)

My gripe isnt about how many actual pickups or not are getting dropped by companies, its the tech or lack of that accompanies it.
For example Fishman have the awesome rechargeable battery pack in about 4 different variants to cover every guitar type and is simply usb charged. Also, it works with any active pickup so not just fishman. Shit like that is the sort of thing i want to see fly out at other companies.

Emg have their awesome solderless stuff but where is their EMG rechargable battery?.
Swapping out 9volt batteries is a big reason alot of guys cant be arsed and go passive. Doing this makes huge sense. Well done to Fishman on it. Awesome ideas.

The others in the tech aspect do seem to be abit behind atm.


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## spudmunkey (Feb 2, 2018)

lewis said:


> Swapping out 9volt batteries is a big reason alot of guys cant be arsed and go passive.



This comment is interesting to me, because I feel the opposite. If running down a battery means that it won't work for a while, while it charges, or maybe it can run off a power bank...that sounds like a serious pain in the ass. Kiesel offers Fluence Moderns on a couple models now, and they are including a 9v battery compartment which makes MUCH more sense to me since it's hot-swappable, especially if it leaves an "internal" rechargeable battery intact...but i don't know if it does. It's sort of like an electric car vs a gas car. Both can get you the same range (for the sake of argument), but a gas car can fill up in 6 minutes, and it can take 4 hours+ to recharge an electric car.


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## lewis (Feb 2, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> This comment is interesting to me, because I feel the opposite. If running down a battery means that it won't work for a while, while it charges, or maybe it can run off a power bank...that sounds like a serious pain in the ass. Kiesel offers Fluence Moderns on a couple models now, and they are including a 9v battery compartment which makes MUCH more sense to me since it's hot-swappable, especially if it leaves an "internal" rechargeable battery intact...but i don't know if it does. It's sort of like an electric car vs a gas car. Both can get you the same range (for the sake of argument), but a gas car can fill up in 6 minutes, and it can take 4 hours+ to recharge an electric car.


If you make sure you charge before every gig you will never run out and the light tells you of the battery status anyway.
Plus does not lose dynamics even if only on 1% battery.

You cant tell when a 9 volt is going to stop and you slowly lose dynamics too as the battery drains.

The recharge kit ticks way more boxes for me personally.
Different strokes i guess.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 2, 2018)

I wouldn't be surprised if you can use the Fishman battery on an EMG set.

The thing is that EMGS don't really need it, IMO. EMGs last 3000 hours on 1 battery. 

Fishmans, on the other hand, last only 100 - 200 hours. The rechargeable battery is almost mandatory.


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## MASS DEFECT (Feb 3, 2018)

+1 on those Fluence battery packs. I have installed one in my #1 guitar. I finished a 9v battery in just almost 2 months. Even at 1 1/2 months i heard some of that hi fi dynamics get dampened. probably the battery isn't putting out a uniform 9 volts. The fluence bat packs don't go below that voltage even at low charge.

Whereas with my EMG 85/60, JH Set, I can go for more than a year on one single battery.


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## mnemonic (Feb 3, 2018)

Just buy some rechargeable lithium 9 volts. Boom, done. Guaranteed it would cost less than some proprietary EMG rechargeable battery. 

I’d rather see people like Fishman start using quick-connect pots and switches, and see guys like SD and Dimarzio start using quick-connect on pickups. Ideally all the same type of quick connect, so they’re easily hot-swappable. 

I think Gibson uses a Molex connector on their pickups, but that’s for their PCB system which only works on that specific guitar shape anyway.


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## mnemonic (Feb 3, 2018)

MASS DEFECT said:


> You missed the best part. I want to see how they do this. I hope there is a Fluence Custom Shop in the future.



This is interesting, from what Keith is saying it sounds like he hooks up to some kind of modeling pickup attached to a computer that approximates different sounds, and whatever they decide on gets printed out as the final version of the actual pickup. 

Kinda like if some amp company built their amp by modeling it using software, then built an actual amp. In fact, I think Carol-Ann did something like this with Fractal when they were prototyping one of their amps.


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## Quiet Coil (Feb 3, 2018)

mnemonic said:


> Just buy some rechargeable lithium 9 volts. Boom, done. Guaranteed it would cost less than some proprietary EMG rechargeable battery.



Yes, but... the Modern set I had in my Jazzmaster started to sound like ass when the battery was approaching end of life- but they still worked. That was the first time I dealt tone being effected by the state of the battery, all of this to say the “consistent 9v” feature makes good sense in this case.



mnemonic said:


> I’d rather see people like Fishman start using quick-connect pots and switches, and see guys like SD and Dimarzio start using quick-connect on pickups. Ideally all the same type of quick connect, so they’re easily hot-swappable.



I can totally get behind this. Changed pickups more in the last few months than I have in my whole life and I’m not done yet. I have no problem with soldering once I’ve finally settled, but it certainly can be a pain when trying things out on the fly.


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## mnemonic (Feb 3, 2018)

Noisy Humbucker said:


> Yes, but... the Modern set I had in my Jazzmaster started to sound like ass when the battery was approaching end of life- but they still worked. That was the first time I dealt tone being effected by the state of the battery, all of this to say the “consistent 9v” feature makes good sense in this case.



That’s why I recommend lithium rather than alkaline. From what I understand lithium batteries voltage doesn’t drop as quickly as alkaline.


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## Lemonbaby (Feb 3, 2018)

If EMG switched to a rechargeable Li-Ion battery pack like Fishman uses, the 18V-mod fancrowd would go nuts...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Feb 3, 2018)

Like I said, I imagine it isn't hard using Fishman's existing battery packs. 

All you'd need to do is take the Fishman stuff, install a battery clip backwards, and connect it to the existing EMG stuff. That, or clip the EMG battery clip, and solder it to the Fishman battery wires.

For the record, Fishman pickups don't come with the battery pack. You have to buy it separate.


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## MaxOfMetal (Feb 3, 2018)

http://www.emgpickups.com/pedals/power-supplies/power-supplies/es-918.html

Why bother with batteries when you can integrate the power into your rig? 

EMG has been making this thing for years.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Feb 3, 2018)

^ I agree, I love this thing, specially when guitar cavity is too small/clumsy to fit a 9v battery. Only drag/inconvenience is that you have to use a stereo cable to connect the guitar to the pedal.


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## lewis (Feb 4, 2018)

MASS DEFECT said:


> +1 on those Fluence battery packs. I have installed one in my #1 guitar. I finished a 9v battery in just almost 2 months. Even at 1 1/2 months i heard some of that hi fi dynamics get dampened. probably the battery isn't putting out a uniform 9 volts. The fluence bat packs don't go below that voltage even at low charge.
> 
> Whereas with my EMG 85/60, JH Set, I can go for more than a year on one single battery.





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Like I said, I imagine it isn't hard using Fishman's existing battery packs.
> 
> All you'd need to do is take the Fishman stuff, install a battery clip backwards, and connect it to the existing EMG stuff. That, or clip the EMG battery clip, and solder it to the Fishman battery wires.
> 
> For the record, Fishman pickups don't come with the battery pack. You have to buy it separate.



Do either of you guys know if it would be possible to install the battery pack 100% solderlessly?. Like can i snip wires and either wrap them together, or better use a little screw terminal etc?. I really want one but not If I have to solder. 1) I dont own a soldering iron, 2) Ive never done it before and 3) Im primarily an EMG guy so dont really need to now buy one.



Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> ^ I agree, I love this thing, specially when guitar cavity is too small/clumsy to fit a 9v battery. Only drag/inconvenience is that you have to use a stereo cable to connect the guitar to the pedal.



yeah I did look at that. But Im a wireless guy now and I cant ever see myself going back to a cable. And I dont suppose there is any clever wireless way around it?


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## Science_Penguin (Feb 4, 2018)

lewis said:


> this is great but honestly Im so frustrated that so far, Fishman seem like the only company actually trying hard to be innovative.
> 
> Where the hell are the new Duncan or EMG products that wow?. Bareknuckle released a cheap version of their line.... hardly screams wow either.
> If they do all white open core 7 string pickups, I will probably grab a set for my Jackson.
> ...



Fishman may act as a catalyst for EMG to get back on the ball, and of the major manufacturers, they're the one I trust the most to be innovative, given what they've got so far. Duncans, Bareknuckles, Dimarzios, they're good at what they do, and I'm betting they're gonna stick to that for those of us who prefer the old fashioned ways.


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## lewis (Feb 4, 2018)

Science_Penguin said:


> Fishman may act as a catalyst for EMG to get back on the ball, and of the major manufacturers, they're the one I trust the most to be innovative, given what they've got so far. Duncans, Bareknuckles, Dimarzios, they're good at what they do, and I'm betting they're gonna stick to that for those of us who prefer the old fashioned ways.



So true!
Im an EMG fanboy and Im sitting here slightly frustrated in light of how awesome Fishman are.

Fishman are dominating the pickup world, and endorsing some of the worlds biggest guitar names whilst releasing really awesome, out of the box thought products (like their USB powered input to charge the pickups)

meanwhile EMG quietly release a solderless killswitch and some Kirk Hammet signature pickups, which are likely just EMG81's with the logo painted green............


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## op1e (Feb 4, 2018)

Good, they can make the open coils for 8's since they have no passive sized option. My favorite Dimarzios don/t come that way either.


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## lewis (Feb 5, 2018)

anyone know if they are going to offer open coils, as slanted options for fan fret guitars?


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## Strobe (Feb 5, 2018)

Just to confirm, most speculated but it's true that the Fishman battery packs will work with EMG's. I tested it because I was curious.

I love the Fluence pickups, they're my favorites overall, but EMG fanboys, the various more vintage voiced pickups EMG has put out are still pretty great. It's maybe not super innovative, but EMG still has a lot of solid offerings. The 57/66 set is still a really good option if you want a higher output pickup that has PAF-ish frequency content. That is exactly what a lot of people are looking for. I do hope they try to compete with Fishman on the innovation front. They dominated this niche in the market for so long - they have to know a thing or two.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Feb 5, 2018)

lewis said:


> anyone know if they are going to offer open coils, as slanted options for fan fret guitars?



I'm not sure if what you're asking is a thing, by that I mean is there a standard for the slanted angles (I kind of doubt there is)? I know SD makes slanted pickups as custom orders, but they ask for dimensions/angle etc. What you're asking may require Fishman to have a custom Fluence shop. I'd definitely be for that, custom cosmetic options alone could be awesome.


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## spudmunkey (Feb 5, 2018)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> I'm not sure if what you're asking is a thing, by that I mean is there a standard for the slanted angles (I kind of doubt there is)? I know SD makes slanted pickups as custom orders, but they ask for dimensions/angle etc. What you're asking may require Fishman to have a custom Fluence shop. I'd definitely be for that, custom cosmetic options alone could be awesome.



This. I believe some manufacturers like BKP have a "standard" angle that, from what I understand, happens to match the angles that Kiesel uses within a degree, which are meant to align with the last fret's angle...but that would change if the guitar had a different scale range, had a different neutral fret location, or if the builder has the pickups match the angle of the bridge...or some makers even have the bridge pickup match the bridge and the neck pickup match the angle of the fretboard.


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## nistley (Feb 6, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> This. I believe some manufacturers like BKP have a "standard" angle that, from what I understand, happens to match the angles that Kiesel uses within a degree, which are meant to align with the last fret's angle...but that would change if the guitar had a different scale range, had a different neutral fret location, or if the builder has the pickups match the angle of the bridge...or some makers even have the bridge pickup match the bridge and the neck pickup match the angle of the fretboard.



BKP have standard 10 degree slant, and it actually works in many guitars, as the CNC process also benefits from standard angle, as well as bridge and neck angle. Majority of specific scale lengths are not obviously out of scale with such angle. So, I think a lot of builders use this angle as a result.

It would be awesome if Fluence tries 10deg 'standard', as I'd replace a few pickups as as a result of the active + single sound combo. But I would not expect it...


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## spudmunkey (Feb 6, 2018)

Are BKP 7-string pickups also 10 degrees? If that's the case, then they would be over 3 degrees off from Kiesel's routes (their 6 and 8 are close to 10, but their 7s are closer to 13 degrees)


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 6, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> Are BKP 7-string pickups also 10 degrees? If that's the case, then they would be over 3 degrees off from Kiesel's routes (their 6 and 8 are close to 10, but their 7s are closer to 13 degrees)


I thought the 8 string was around 12 degrees? I vaguely remember asking jeff and them about it back when I was looking into replacing my lithium bridge with a sfty3. 
BKP told me while back they can do 10 or up to a max of 15-16 degrees but the upcharge is pretty significant. You'd honestly be better off swapping them onto the lithium baseplate imo


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## nistley (Feb 6, 2018)

The thing is, you can put an 11 degree slanted baseplate in many cavities with wide enough tolerance. It's not obvious looking.


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## spudmunkey (Feb 6, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> I thought the 8 string was around 12 degrees? I vaguely remember asking jeff and them about it back when I was looking into replacing my lithium bridge with a sfty3.



Just checked: We're both off by the same margin. But, if it were The Price is Right, I would have won because I didn't go over. 

6-string: 10.2304 degrees
7-string: 13.339 degrees
8-string: 11.0186 degrees


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 6, 2018)

spudmunkey said:


> Just checked: We're both off by the same margin. But, if it were The Price is Right, I would have won because I didn't go over.
> 
> 6-string: 10.2304 degrees
> 7-string: 13.339 degrees
> 8-string: 11.0186 degrees


it's weird how the 7 got a more severe angle than the 6 or 8.


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## spudmunkey (Feb 6, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> it's weird how the 7 got a more severe angle than the 6 or 8.



The 7 and the 8-string have a similar 1.5" fan spread, but the 7-string has one less string spacing's width to cover that scale difference, hence the steeper angle. The 6-string is only a 1" fan spread, so that's why it's back down again.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Feb 8, 2018)

Am I missing something? The Fishman news web page has not been updated since Dec. 7th?!!!! That's about 60 days ago! Also Keith Merrow is not even on their Artist roaster!!! There was also a rumor for 2018 that they will now offer Devin Townsend in 7, 8 strings, what happened? 

Anyone has a clue?


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## Tisca (Feb 8, 2018)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Am I missing something? The Fishman news web page has not been updated since Dec. 7th?!!!! That's about 60 days ago! Also Keith Merrow is not even on their Artist roaster!!! There was also a rumor for 2018 that they will now offer Devin Townsend in 7, 8 strings, what happened?
> 
> Anyone has a clue?



Explains why I can't find anything. 
Does anyone know what the precise model name for these new pickups are? Either I'm searching wrong or there's no info or vids yet.


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## Clinic (Feb 9, 2018)

I read in the merrow thread, that you voice the pickups by connecting them up to a computer and you can update the firmware in real time. I wonder if they will release this? Probably not, but how cool would it be to be able to re-voice your pickups exactly how YOU want them. 

You hearing me fishman people?


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Feb 9, 2018)

Clinic said:


> I read in the merrow thread, that you voice the pickups by connecting them up to a computer and you can update the firmware in real time. I wonder if they will release this? Probably not, but how cool would it be to be able to re-voice your pickups exactly how YOU want them.
> 
> You hearing me fishman people?



I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. According to KM & Frank Falbo, Fishman uses a dummy pickup connected to a simulation software that helps them prototype and design the tone of the custom pickup. Once the artist is satisfied with the result, they take all the parameters from the final (software) model and use them to determine the (hardware) design parameters of the actual production pickup. In my understanding, the software simulation tool is not 100% a pickup, just a design tool, not sure if it would be usable in real-life. But I agree with you, it's a heck of a tool.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Feb 20, 2018)

bump...anyone heard anything re availability? Fishman 'News' still hasn't been updated (since last Dec.), they posted the 2018 catalogs though. Still, online search doesn't show the open-core pickups sold anywhere online!!!!!


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## KnightBrolaire (Feb 20, 2018)

Clinic said:


> I read in the merrow thread, that you voice the pickups by connecting them up to a computer and you can update the firmware in real time. I wonder if they will release this? Probably not, but how cool would it be to be able to re-voice your pickups exactly how YOU want them.
> 
> You hearing me fishman people?


if you're interested in that kind of thing go check out cycfi pickups. They have programmable EQs for their pickups and they have modular versions, plus passive/active variations.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Mar 22, 2018)

bump!!!! Anyone heard anything specific as to when the new Fishmans (Keith Merrow, and/or Classic Open Core) will be available? 
It's been almost 2 months now since NAMM, WTF?


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 22, 2018)

Uh, didn't EMG do open coil pickups last year? But yeah, yay Fishman for being innovative, even if someone else did it first.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 23, 2018)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> bump!!!! Anyone heard anything specific as to when the new Fishmans (Keith Merrow, and/or Classic Open Core) will be available?
> It's been almost 2 months now since NAMM, WTF?



Open Cores were just put on Sweetwater's website. And I called them about the Merrows and got an ETA of early April.

Super tempted to get an Open Core bridge and standard neck. :hmm:



Spaced Out Ace said:


> Uh, didn't EMG do open coil pickups last year? But yeah, yay Fishman for being innovative, even if someone else did it first.



EDIT: Fuck me nevermind.  Forgot about the Retro Actives.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 26, 2018)

gear4music has open core pickups for 40$.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Mar 26, 2018)

Last week they had them for $11,000, I am not kidding! This online store looks shady to me, besides, they do not have any physical presence in USA. Currently, they have the open core series at $235, with one set in black for $37.58, here: https://www.gear4music.com/us/en/Gu...Fluence-Core-Classic-Humbucker-Set-Black/2B23

How is that possible!!!!!!?


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## Avedas (Mar 26, 2018)

Sounds like a web developer might be getting fired soon lmao


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber (Mar 27, 2018)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> Last week they had them for $11,000, I am not kidding! This online store looks shady to me, besides, they do not have any physical presence in USA. Currently, they have the open core series at $235, with one set in black for $37.58, here: https://www.gear4music.com/us/en/Gu...Fluence-Core-Classic-Humbucker-Set-Black/2B23
> 
> How is that possible!!!!!!?



I don’t know; and so attribute it to tonewood.


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 27, 2018)

fuck it, I ordered the open cores. worst case I get a refund from gearmusic, best case I get some pickups for dirt cheap.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 27, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> fuck it, I ordered the open cores. worst case I get a refund from gearmusic, best case I get some pickups for dirt cheap.


Did you at least use PayPal instead of giving them your CC#?


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## angl2k (Mar 27, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Did you at least use PayPal instead of giving them your CC#?



I have ordered guitars from gear4music before, their website has this weird auto translate thing going on depending on your regional settings but other than that they're legit.

That $37 set looks like a pricing error though


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 27, 2018)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> Did you at least use PayPal instead of giving them your CC#?


yep.


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## guitarfishbay (Mar 27, 2018)

Have they kept the HF tilt option on these? Or if not, have they revoiced them?

I have a set of the classics and I find I have to run them with the HF tilt on, for my tastes. The treble seems to extend very high without it. The moderns I have don't seem to need the tilt.


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## Albake21 (Mar 27, 2018)

They are selling the open core only for 6 strings? Well that's shitty... I want to get a 7 string version. By the way, does anyone know if it's possible to use a Fishman bridge while still using a normal, passive neck pickup?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 27, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> They are selling the open core only for 6 strings? Well that's shitty... I want to get a 7 string version. By the way, does anyone know if it's possible to use a Fishman bridge while still using a normal, passive neck pickup?



You can, but would require some complex wiring. You'd have to send the Fluence to a 25k volume/tone pot, and the passive to a 500k volume/tone pot. On top of that, the impedance difference may cause issues. 

Also, the Keith Merrow pickups will be available in open-core format and 7-strings. I'm gonna have a set coming in for my Ibanez RG7.


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## Albake21 (Mar 27, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You can, but would require some complex wiring. You'd have to send the Fluence to a 25k volume/tone pot, and the passive to a 500k volume/tone pot. On top of that, the impedance difference may cause issues.
> 
> Also, the Keith Merrow pickups will be available in open-core format and 7-strings. I'm gonna have a set coming in for my Ibanez RG7.


Okay that's what I figured, most likely not worth it then. Thanks for the info!


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## Lemonbaby (Mar 27, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You can, but would require some complex wiring. You'd have to send the Fluence to a 25k volume/tone pot, and the passive to a 500k volume/tone pot. On top of that, the impedance difference may cause issues.


This. Only solution I can think of: use a Seymour Blackouts Preamp to convert the passive PU output to an active signal as well. But that's going to be one hell of a crammed control cavity...


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 27, 2018)

Lemonbaby said:


> This. Only solution I can think of: use a Seymour Blackouts Preamp to convert the passive PU output to an active signal as well. But that's going to be one hell of a crammed control cavity...



That or use an EMG PA2. Much smaller.


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## Lemonbaby (Mar 27, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> That or use an EMG PA2. Much smaller.


The PA2 is a booster. The Blackouts Preamp is a Buffer i.e. Gain=0...


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## Emperoff (Mar 27, 2018)

They have corrected the price. Now it shows 180€ the set (which is still cheap, and appear as unavailable).

Nevermind. They will have to send the sets we bought at the price we ordered. We'll just have to wait.


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## Stuck_in_a_dream (Mar 27, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> They are selling the open core only for 6 strings? Well that's shitty... I want to get a 7 string version. By the way, does anyone know if it's possible to use a Fishman bridge while still using a normal, passive neck pickup?


 
IIRC the 2018 Fishman Catalog, here: https://docs.google.com/viewerng/vi...018/02/2018_Fishman_Retail_Online_Catalog.pdf
On page 10, it mentions the 7 & 8-string open core versions, I'd assume they're yet to be released, waiting for a 7-string myself here.


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## Albake21 (Mar 28, 2018)

Stuck_in_a_dream said:


> IIRC the 2018 Fishman Catalog, here: https://docs.google.com/viewerng/vi...018/02/2018_Fishman_Retail_Online_Catalog.pdf
> On page 10, it mentions the 7 & 8-string open core versions, I'd assume they're yet to be released, waiting for a 7-string myself here.


You're right! Well that's good to know. I'm hoping these sell well enough that they make the monderns in the core size.


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## guitareddie (Mar 28, 2018)

@Emperoff :
They just called me and told me they cancelled my order because the price was wrong. I was kind of expecting that to happen


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## KnightBrolaire (Mar 28, 2018)

guitareddie said:


> @Emperoff :
> They just called me and told me they cancelled my order because the price was wrong. I was kind of expecting that to happen


yep, same. oh, well, worth a shot.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Mar 30, 2018)

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Fishman/Fluence-Keith-Merrow-7-String-Set-1500000208116.gc







I wanna say this is like... delay #3. 

Originally they were aiming for March, then early April, and now late April. 

I'm guessing they need more time to load up the Schecter KM-series guitars with them.


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## Albake21 (Mar 30, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://www.guitarcenter.com/Fishman/Fluence-Keith-Merrow-7-String-Set-1500000208116.gc
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well at least it's finally up on a site.


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## JesperX (Mar 30, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> https://www.guitarcenter.com/Fishman/Fluence-Keith-Merrow-7-String-Set-1500000208116.gc
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've been keeping an eye on these as well, but those post-NAMM delays can be a pain. I pre-ordered a Two Notes Captor in March of last year with an expected in-stock of "Early April". That became "Late April", May, July, Aug, etc. I got it like Sept 25th.

Bummer too 'cause I was about to pull the trigger on a Nazgul/Sentient set until I saw the announcement for these. Here's hoping the demand for his sigs doesn't push them out for months!


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## Kyle Jordan (Apr 2, 2018)

They're also finally up on the Fishman website.

https://www.fishman.com/products/series/fluence/fluence-open-core-classic-humbucker-pickup/

While I would prefer covered 8 string options, the idea of white 8 string pups gets me all hot and bothered.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 2, 2018)

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...ce-keith-merrow-humbucker-pickup-set-7-string

Sweetwater has them available for preorder now.


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## Emperoff (Apr 8, 2018)

I'm really interested in these ONLY if they release them in active mount. C'mon Keith, we all want a piece!




guitareddie said:


> @Emperoff :
> They just called me and told me they cancelled my order because the price was wrong. I was kind of expecting that to happen



Yup. Same here. Shame it wasn't a spanish sotre. They would have been forced to sell them at that price by law.


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## JesperX (Apr 13, 2018)

Annnnd GC says 5/16 now... =/


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## lewis (Apr 13, 2018)

Can i ask, everyone says that these (fishmans in general) are not solderless yet in the new Keith Merrow video where we see Keiths new open coil sig pickups, the underside have the EMG solderless style plugs?

So whats the score with that?


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## Don Tonberry (Apr 13, 2018)

lewis said:


> Can i ask, everyone says that these (fishmans in general) are not solderless yet in the new Keith Merrow video where we see Keiths new open coil sig pickups, the underside have the EMG solderless style plugs?
> 
> So whats the score with that?



The cable that connects the Fishmans hooks onto those quick connect plugs but you solder the wires at the other end of the cable to the pots/switch. You could technically use the EMG solderless connections with the Fishmans but you'd lose out on the voice switching or coil taps


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## lewis (Apr 13, 2018)

Don Tonberry said:


> The cable that connects the Fishmans hooks onto those quick connect plugs but you solder the wires at the other end of the cable to the pots/switch. You could technically use the EMG solderless connections with the Fishmans but you'd lose out on the voice switching or coil taps


what about If I used the EMG push/pull knob too?

Either way Im not that interested in the passive mode but If I could somehow do quick connect active mode only with coil tap thanks to the push/pull knobs, that would be great!!.


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## Don Tonberry (Apr 13, 2018)

lewis said:


> what about If I used the EMG push/pull knob too?
> 
> Either way Im not that interested in the passive mode but If I could somehow do quick connect active mode only with coil tap thanks to the push/pull knobs, that would be great!!.


Not sure how the EMG push/pull works but the Moderns require soldering a wire to a small pad on the pickup for coil tapping. It might be possible to do what you want with the Tosin or Keith Merrow set, etc since they have a Voice 3 single coil quick connect plug but again it depends on how that EMG connector works


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 13, 2018)

The standard Fluences all have coil taps that need to be soldered onto the pickup itself. By the looks of it, the Open Cores, Tosin Aabsi, and Devy sets don't. They use quick connects as well. Problem is that I don't know how the EMG push-pull pots work.


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## KnightBrolaire (Apr 13, 2018)

lewis said:


> what about If I used the EMG push/pull knob too?
> 
> Either way Im not that interested in the passive mode but If I could somehow do quick connect active mode only with coil tap thanks to the push/pull knobs, that would be great!!.


you should just learn to solder. it's not hard. then you don't have to keep looking for ways around soldering


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## lewis (Apr 13, 2018)

KnightBrolaire said:


> you should just learn to solder. it's not hard. then you don't have to keep looking for ways around soldering


I mean yeah i guess haha.
But i see their solderless system better in every way and im an emg guy so..kinda dont need to haha

Only curious to try fishmans if i can quickly integrate them straight into my guitars without messing about with wires (i.e like i would to try different emgs - plug n play)


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 13, 2018)

lewis said:


> I mean yeah i guess haha.
> But i see their solderless system better in every way and im an emg guy so..kinda dont need to haha
> 
> Only curious to try fishmans if i can quickly integrate them straight into my guitars without messing about with wires (i.e like i would to try different emgs - plug n play)



Fishmans are kinda plug in play, but you'll be missing the selling point. You'll need switches to use the voicings.

I was able to swap out the EMG 81 in my Explorer for a Fluence Classic. But it was stuck in voice 1. Fishman IS kind enough to send little pin jumpers, though, so you can jumper the pins and keep the pickups in voice 2 mode without needing a switch. But you still don't have the switching, so you're still stuck in voice 2.


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## Albake21 (Apr 13, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Fishmans are kinda plug in play, but you'll be missing the selling point. You'll need switches to use the voicings.
> 
> I was able to swap out the EMG 81 in my Explorer for a Fluence Classic. But it was stuck in voice 1. Fishman IS kind enough to send little pin jumpers, though, so you can jumper the pins and keep the pickups in voice 2 mode without needing a switch. But you still don't have the switching, so you're still stuck in voice 2.


Which really seems to defeat the purpose of Fishmans IMO.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 13, 2018)

Albake21 said:


> Which really seems to defeat the purpose of Fishmans IMO.



Yeah, that's what I mean.  The main selling point of Fishmans is the alternative voicings. I mean, the tones they give you ARE killer. Classics sounds (PAFs, JBs, EMGs, etc), just "more" and improved, but you still need the switching to get the full potential.


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## lewis (Apr 13, 2018)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Yeah, that's what I mean.  The main selling point of Fishmans is the alternative voicings. I mean, the tones they give you ARE killer. Classics sounds (PAFs, JBs, EMGs, etc), just "more" and improved, but you still need the switching to get the full potential.


I dont care for lower output passive voicing so if i can get say the tosin or merrow set and have permanent active voicing with a push pull pot to activate the single coil voicing, and it be solderless, that would be awesome.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 13, 2018)

lewis said:


> I dont care for lower output passive voicing so if i can get say the tosin or merrow set and have permanent active voicing with a push pull pot to activate the single coil voicing, and it be solderless, that would be awesome.



You'll have to talk to someone who's good with schematics.  I'm not sure how the EMG push-pulls work. Maybe contact EMG and see if they can get into detail.


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## JesperX (Apr 14, 2018)

lewis said:


> I dont care for lower output passive voicing so if i can get say the tosin or merrow set and have permanent active voicing with a push pull pot to activate the single coil voicing, and it be solderless, that would be awesome.



Worth clarifying- There's no active voicing on the Merrow set.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 18, 2018)

>Checks GC date
>5-16-2018


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 26, 2018)

So I unfortunately had to cancel my preorder.  Not really getting along with the guitar I wanted to put them in, so I'm just gonna sell the guitar. 

But anyone here with a KM7MKII with the Fishmans already installed? Any impressions yet?


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## superfast11r (Apr 27, 2018)

*mod edit: if you want to sell product on here register for a Vendor account and keep it to the Dealers section.
*


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