# Music Man problems: A tale of warped necks and ....ty customer service



## Tylor (Oct 2, 2015)

Before I go on this rant, I will say I love(d) my music man guitars as long as they've worked. I own 5 and two have been problem free. They've been on the road for what has to be ~200 shows in the last 6-7 years. Not all at once but they've all seen some work. I'm not particularly rough on my guitars live, and at home they are kept humidified, oiled, and temperature regulated consistently.

I won't name names but I've talked to a couple very well respected luthiers who have said they've seen quite an increase in repairs on music man guitars in the last 5 years. There's been some speculation on wether they've been sourcing their wood through different channels or if the increase in business led to lower quality pieces of wood being used. I'm curious as to wether anyone has a similar story to me.

Below are I'll post bullet points of the music man guitar's I've owned and what's gone wrong with them.


- Music Man Axis (rosewood neck) - Purchased ~summer 2008 - Zero problems what-so-ever

- Music Man JP Standard (pearl red burst) - Purchased ~fall 2009 - Zero problems.

- Music Man JP BFR (brown burst) - Purchased ~fall 2010 - Warped neck upon arrival, too twisted to reduce any buzzing

- Music Man JP BFR (black burst) - Replacement for previous BFR - Warped neck after 2 years of average use/gigging. Able to have frets dressed to compensate for twist and still be playable

- Music Man JPXI 7 - Purchased ~winter 2011 - Warped neck after 3 years of average use and very sparse gigging. Frets able to be dressed to make it playable for now. My friend had ordered a JPXI 7 before I had and his came in with a warped neck. They tried to sell me that one at Long and McQuade but I refused and this one was brought in. They were both junk.


On top of this, customer service is laughably slow. I need a replacement nut for my BFR (the d string has sawed it's way through the nut) and they haven't responded to an email for a replacement to me or my dealer in three weeks. They make you send in the damaged parts before receiving replacements which further extends the down time for the guitar. I understand they are trying to keep aftermarket parts non existence but this is flat out ridiculous. I figured since every neck that warped on me was mahogany maybe those boards just couldn't handle the Canadian climate. But of course they won't make you a neck out of an alternate material. They won't do anything out of spec. My friend needed a replacement neck for his JP standard and he was wondering if they'd put stainless frets on it since they're standard on all JP's now. Nope. Nickel frets, nothing outside of spec. I'm just choked because I feel like if you're investing in an MM guitar, which are not cheap by any means, they should support their customers and try and be flexible with different situations. I still think they make fine guitars but I shant be buying another.


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## mystix (Oct 2, 2015)

That's a shame. I own two right now and have owned over a dozen over the years. No issues(knock on wood). 

Hope things work out for you.


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 2, 2015)

So if you understand their policy on returning the damaged parts in order to receive the new one then why is that an issue now? They're strict on their policy because if every single person who contacted them asked for Stainless on their guitar that was originally nickel they'd be losing money and time by doing that. And the way the spoiled generation is, the second one person gets it everyone else will inquire, maybe even *demand* it. So of course they have a disclaimer about sticking to original specs on a guitar, I asked about this before when I got my first JP years ago. And I got a very reasonable and understanding, and on top of that extremely transparent response from customer service about why they won't upgrade your spec when you request a new part or refret.

I will proudly say I've had over 30 EBMM guitars over the last few years, and whenever I had an issue. Even out of warranty and something bought used, CS never took longer than 2-3 hours to get back to me unless it was a weekend or a holiday. And sometimes even helped me for free which was not something they needed to do. Why don't you contact them directly about your nut issue? They've sold replacement nuts to customers several times before.

As for the wood reacting to your climate and the baseless rumors of techs, they constantly source quality woods and have repeat customers  consistently enjoy their guitars. I've had techs tell me some ridiculous bull.... before too, doesn't mean it's remotely true 

Case in point, my mahogany neck'd JPX7 hasn't warped in over 3 years now. And it's just as stable if not more stable than my 4 other ones with Roasted Maple necks.

Now I truly feel for you, and it sucks that something out of their control warped your guitar's necks. But you're asking them to bend the rules in multiple regards (and your friend) for you because your situation is "different". I buy my EBMMs at the same price as everyone else, sometimes less on the used market. So I fail to see why your situation is entirely different.

Idk why but I honestly fail to sympathize you with you on everything you're saying, because like I said right before this. You want them to bend the rules for you and your friend, and while that might be nice for them to do, they're very clear that they won't do this.

EDIT: I've had 2 EBMM's with issues, one detailed in a thread here about how a dealer tried to screw me over and on top of that sell the screwed up guitar to another customer and member on this very website. And the other had a failing piezo preamp, and they paid for all the costs to ship it back and forth and replace the entire preamp. So yeah, they're only human, but acting like they're negligent when they're not is hilarious when they have such a great track record.


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## TheBigGroove (Oct 2, 2015)

Edit: erasing comment so I don't offend the sensitive fanboys more


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## Tylor (Oct 2, 2015)

Jonathan20022 said:


> So if you understand their policy on returning the damaged parts in order to receive the new one then why is that an issue now? They're strict on their policy because if every single person who contacted them asked for Stainless on their guitar that was originally nickel they'd be losing money and time by doing that. And the way the spoiled generation is, the second one person gets it everyone else will inquire, maybe even *demand* it. So of course they have a disclaimer about sticking to original specs on a guitar, I asked about this before when I got my first JP years ago. And I got a very reasonable and understanding, and on top of that extremely transparent response from customer service about why they won't upgrade your spec when you request a new part or refret.
> 
> I will proudly say I've had over 30 EBMM guitars over the last few years, and whenever I had an issue. Even out of warranty and something bought used, CS never took longer than 2-3 hours to get back to me unless it was a weekend or a holiday. And sometimes even helped me for free which was not something they needed to do. Why don't you contact them directly about your nut issue? They've sold replacement nuts to customers several times before.
> 
> ...



Not at all asking them to specifically asking them to do something different for me, I wish it was an option available to everyone! My complaints are not baseless, you've had a positive experience with them, I've had a mixed experience, neither are an absolute representation of the company. The reality is, myself and others I know have had serious problems with these guitars in my city. Who knows it could even be the way the dealer handles the guitars and have absolutely nothing to do with Music Man but that isn't something I'll ever be able to find out. If something isn't working for me consistently obviously I'm going to think that is the cause. 

I get you're brand loyal but just because you haven't had problems doesn't make mine any less real. No need to be condescending on your behalf, I'm not attacking you or the brand I'm just voicing concerns and wondering if others have had similar experiences outside of those I've already heard.


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## Tylor (Oct 2, 2015)

TheBigGroove said:


> I've had the same experience honestly. 2/5 of my EBMM JPs (I've only owned the original JPs rather than any of the Newer BFR models because I'm a basswood lover) were almost unplayable or required constant truss rod adjustments to keep them playing halfway decent. With one of those (roasted maple neck PDN JP7) the truss wheel wouldn't even turn....I mean wouldn't at all! CS just told me "sometimes the truss wheel is stuff on some guitars"....And customer service never once offered me a replacement neck even though I asked within the one year mark on both. I will say though the CS reps were very nice even though they offered me no remedy to my problems.
> 
> In my opinion, they need to stop using one piece necks....I see no benefit in only using one piece neck on the customers end, only reduced cost on theirs maybe? maybe not, but I'm just thinking less Time cutting and gluing. In my opinion, a $2000-$3500 instrument shouldn't have any of these issues of it's well kept.



Same experience, they we're very polite but it was basically a "sorry, .... happens" result. That is so damn brutal about the dud truss rod


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 2, 2015)

Sorry I should clarify, I said your tech's comments are baseless. Not your own. Why don't you try contacting EBMM customer service yourself? They've always been prompt and very nice to me whenever I ask them about anything, even before I owned as many as I have.

I'm definitely biased, but I also see in your last paragraph that you want them to be more flexible in ways that they aren't for everyone. It'd be nice, but I seriously don't see it happening for a number of reasons.


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## Tylor (Oct 2, 2015)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Sorry I should clarify, I said your tech's comments are baseless. Not your own. Why don't you try contacting EBMM customer service yourself? They've always been prompt and very nice to me whenever I ask them about anything, even before I owned as many as I have.
> 
> I'm definitely biased, but I also see in your last paragraph that you want them to be more flexible in ways that they aren't for everyone. It'd be nice, but I seriously don't see it happening for a number of reasons.




The problem I have with that is it's not one guy spouting some crazy ...., my tech, a very well known Luthier (I don't mean locally), plus the issues friends have have lead me to believe there has to have been some issue with wood or QC on either MM's end or on multiple dealer's ends.


Like I said though I'd like them to be flexible for everyone, I feel like if they offered more options rather than needing to release a new JP model every year with minor spec changes that they'd do even better business. Obviously the process would be maybe slightly less streamlined but with how well they're already selling I don't see it affecting them negatively.

EDIT: I know saying some mystical luthier told me "x" sounds like a bit of fluff but I just respect the guy too much to mention his name. It was in private conversation and I don't want to violate that!


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## Dawn of the Shred (Oct 3, 2015)

I've never heard about anybody having that many issues with EBMM. I hope you have better luck man in the future


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## Tuned (Oct 3, 2015)

I own a EBMM JP7 Std. and it's been a huge disappointment for me. This is my first "expensive" guitar. I owned 2 Japanese superstrats and still own one. They aren't a notch inferior to the MM at a fraction of its price. In fact, the MIJ ESP Edwards has an OFR that kills the EBMM Modern bridge in every way, and my former '84 Soloist clone by Fernandes had a GOTOH OEM which is questionnably better (works softer, has more precise microtuning screws and rounded saddles that don't hurt your palm).
For months I couldn't make the EVMM JP7 stay in tune! I found small screw holes under the springs and figured the first owner had used a trem stopper that he didn't disclose to me. And the guitar is like-new, it still had plastic on when I got it. 
I thought that was the tuners and I sent a note to EBMM and Schaller. Schaller answered the next day and kept being in touch with me until it became clear the tuners weren't to blame. EBMM left 2 of my messages unanswered and only replied to the 3rd one. They didn't help, only told me to address my dealer. The closest EBMM dealer is f***ing 1200 miles away from me! They didn't reveal who makes the bridge either, so I couldn't have the problem addressed by the maker. Not unless I moved to another city and had luck to meet a luthier who'd cut up 2 JPs before (one BFR, another Std.) and doesn't feel any awe to them since, I could make the guitar stay in tune.

As a side note, I just broke a string the day before yesterday. That totals in 4 strings on this guitar: 2 high E, 1 high B and 1 high G. They all break in one spot. Good that I had bought a sixpack of EB 2621. I had probably broken 1 string total on both my MIJ guitars before. 

The knobs have those ribbed rubber flat rings on them, 1/2" wide or so. In fact, the guitar arrived with 2 rings on and a third torn ring was in the case. In just several weeks another ring broke, I tried to fix it but it broke again. So I currently have only 1 ring on.


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## Jonathan20022 (Oct 3, 2015)

The hole is on all JPs AFAIK. It's because they have an automated machine that does buffing and it reads an RFID tag so they can get the job done quicker.

@ 2:48
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M26M1IMFww8

I always cite this video when people say the EBMM Trem on the JPs don't stay in tune. I keep 3 of mine floating for trem abuse and I never have tuning problems.  You should try filing your nut for whatever gauge of string you have on there and lube the nut properly for it to work, it's not a locking nut, there's friction happening at the nut since the string is physically moving back and forth in the slot.

demo.flv Video by NorrinRadd1 | Photobucket

EDIT: I feel like a record on repeat defending them here, so I'll take my leave.


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## Bdtunn (Oct 3, 2015)

I had a JP a few years back. I really liked the guitar but it was plagued with problems. I got it and it sounded thinner then a strat. Then it would stay in tune and I fought the truss rod continuously. I had to send it back to MM as the pizeo needed to be replaced and two tuners were also faulty. I got attitude from customer service on this and once my guitar was returned they told me it was no longer under warranty???? I called in and argued basically how is it my fault the guitar shipped broken and that should have been caught when or if it was tested. They eneded up going back on the email and put it under warranty. But the whole thing put a bad taste in my mouth and I sold it. Too bad they are nice guitars....


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## gimmiedataxe (Oct 3, 2015)

I had a bunch of ebmms and never had any problems, but the one time I did, they basically said I was out of luck since it was past the one year warranty. I bought this guitar brand new, and they basically told me to .... off. 
Now that is standing behind your product. 
The problem was a warped neck by the way. I can understand if it was a used, decades old guitar, but this was a brand new Jp6 in caramel burst. There should not be any problems, especially since I live right next to the factory where there's nothing for the guitar to acclimate to.

It left a bad taste for sure. I still use ebmm anyway, as they feel the best to me. I just buy used now.


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## Tuned (Oct 3, 2015)

Jonathan20022 said:


> I always cite this video when people say the EBMM Trem on the JPs don't stay in tune. I keep 3 of mine floating for trem abuse and I never have tuning problems.  You should try filing your nut for whatever gauge of string you have on there and lube the nut properly for it to work, it's not a locking nut, there's friction happening at the nut since the string is physically moving back and forth in the slot.
> 
> demo.flv Video by NorrinRadd1 | Photobucket



Okay, your guitar stays in tune, I'm glad for you, man. I never said all MMs couldn't stay in tune, I only told about mine. 
I have been only using the EB 2621, exactly the strings that are specified in the JP7 product sheet in their site. I do lubricate the nut slots with graphite every time reinstalling strings and/or cleaning the board. Thanks for the tip though, that's kind of you.


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## Tylor (Oct 3, 2015)

Glad to hear your responses guys. Not that you also had bad customer service dealing or faulty guitars, that blows, but that others have also had issues and it's not just me. Obviously there's going to be dud guitars from any major company, it happens unfortunately. But JP standards in Canada are going for around $3000 now (our dollar has tanked). If you pay $3000 for a guitar it better work haha! There's really no excuses for an instrument of that assumed calibre to have so many issues, and there is no excuse for a company to totally disregard their customers after the warranty has expired. You should stand behind your product!


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## Tuned (Oct 3, 2015)

You're right that there's a chance of getting a lemon from every company, it's just that  you'd expect more attitude for a more expensive guitar afore and aftermarket. This is what the industry makes us believe, but we eventually know for a fact that that is not true.

I said above this is my first "expensive" guitar; this is but partly true. I have been playing bass for years, and since I tried LAKLAND basses 9 years ago I never took to another brand. Not only their instruments are well -engineered and well built, but they have an adorable client service. I've had every issue addressed in just a few days, and that inclded their CEO (they are a small company, but nevertheless). I've had both US models ($3600-4000) and imports ($1000-2000), eight basses in total.
As a matter of fact, I was even thinking if I should drop the US-made JP and get the MII SbMM JP7, because it is made in the same facility that LAKLAND import line comes from (except they install US-made pickups and electronics on them and trim the frets on their USA-located PLEK machine). Then I could just send it to LAKLAND Basses and have them make a great playing instrument from that. I had them make great aftermarket stuff on their MII bass once. The two things that keep me from doing that is the bridge that is even worse with the SbMM JPs, and the total expense that will probably come close to the price of a used MIJ or MIA guitar.


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## jjcor (Oct 3, 2015)

I tried to order a stealth jp6 today and it had sold by the time I called. Maybe it's a good thing! I did have a jp7 koa for a day but the body was cracked when it came in (dealer said it was done in shipping but I didn't really believe him, but that's a whole other story). So it was sent back and I didn't feel like waiting another month or so to get it replaced and bought a KxK instead. Maybe I'll just stay away from ebmm. And with the weather I have here (voted worst weather in America) it would be no time before that neck would warp.


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## Tuned (Oct 4, 2015)

I think I heard KxK was THE brand who carries out the "no moneyback, no warranty, no attitude" policy)) hopefully I'm wrong


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## Nlelith (Oct 4, 2015)

Ugh, never thought that people have so much problems with EBMMs...


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## Zado (Oct 4, 2015)

Nlelith said:


> Ugh, never thought that people have so much problems with EBMMs...



Same here,all my MM gas got vanished in an instant


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## yellowv (Oct 4, 2015)

I've owned a ton of music man guitars and never had any issues other than a couple of nuts that were cut low. I find it extremely hard to believe that you have had 3 get warped necks.


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## Tylor (Oct 4, 2015)

yellowv said:


> I've owned a ton of music man guitars and never had any issues other than a couple of nuts that were cut low. I find it extremely hard to believe that you have had 3 get warped necks.



I don't know man I don't really have any reason to slander EBMM TBH. I still really like everything about their guitars; the bridges, neck profiles, tops, overall tone, fit and finish but... I don't like having a broken guitar. Between myself and my personal friends, all of us that own EBMM's that have no problems were purchased over 5 years ago. Then, myself and another friend who have purchased since then have had nothing but problems. That's the truth.


It's basically scared me into buying only custom guitars designed around being stable. My second Oni that I've dreamt up with Dan has some very cool carbon fibre reinforcement ideas going into the neck and is going to use the woods that Dan has found most stable during his luthier career.


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## Tuned (Oct 4, 2015)

Tylor said:


> I don't know man I don't really have any reason to slander EBMM TBH. I still really like everything about their guitars; the bridges, neck profiles, tops, overall tone, fit and finish but... I don't like having a broken guitar...
> It's basically scared me into buying only custom guitars designed around being stable.



I can only double this. I like the looks of the JP (especially the 7-string), the sound - it has a distinct voice that sits nice in the mix and delivers well, also on dissonant and added-note chords. The neck profile and upper frets access are to be desired. I am not fond of the bridge and tuners combo though, although I do like the visual effect they produce.


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## Lax (Oct 5, 2015)

I have and had 4 jp models in a nice weather and never had a trouble.
I exhausted my 2 jp6 nearly to fretless point in ten years without a trouble


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## jl-austin (Oct 5, 2015)

The guys in Florida and California say they have no problems, the guy in Canada has warped necks...... hmmmm.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 5, 2015)

yellowv said:


> I've owned a ton of music man guitars and never had any issues other than a couple of nuts that were cut low.



 

I still know a lot of the techs and shop guys I worked with from way back when and none have mentioned a rise in EBMM issues, and two work at dealers who stock EBMM guitars and basses. 

I don't think EBMM is the be-all end-all in quality, and I've voiced my opinion on the BFR stuff, but everything I've played recently (stuff built in the last 6 to 12 months) has been just as solid as the stuff I own, which is a few years older, and stuff I've seen in the past. 

Most of the issues I've seen on EBMM stuff has been fit & finish related (everyone puts out a Monday/Friday guitar), with electronics issues here and there.

I will say though, EBMM's customer service has been known to be hit or miss over the years. It's one of the reasons I'd be very hesitant to buy them outside of North America, or even the United States for that matter. The dealer should be the one having to deal with them though, and if they're not/not to your satisfaction, return the guitar and go elsewhere, no matter how great that dealer seemed to be price wise. Dealers who don't service warranty issues shouldn't be dealers. 



Tylor said:


> - Music Man JP BFR (black burst) - Replacement for previous BFR - Warped neck after 2 years of average use/gigging. Able to have frets dressed to compensate for twist and still be playable
> 
> - Music Man JPXI 7 - Purchased ~winter 2011 - Warped neck after 3 years of average use and very sparse gigging. Frets able to be dressed to make it playable for now. My friend had ordered a JPXI 7 before I had and his came in with a warped neck. They tried to sell me that one at Long and McQuade but I refused and this one was brought in. They were both junk.



Now, I'm not saying this is what happened, as I don't have the instruments in front of me, but typically when warping occurs years after construction, 90% of the time it's related to how the instruments were stored. 

Even when improperly dried lumber is used in construction, the warping (if it happens at all) should become apparent rather quickly as it only takes months for the excess moisture to leech off, even in colder, more humid conditions, when talking about pieces as small as guitar necks/fretboards. 

Improper storage also doesn't necessarily impact every guitar, some just aren't as susceptible to the same climate issues as others and there's really no rhyme or reason. 

Once again, I'm not saying this wasn't an issue with the guitars themselves, we'll never really know. But I've been doing this tech thing for quite some time and when similar cases have been brought up, just about all of them come back to some issue with storage. 

Do you still have these guitars? I'd love some info and pics to get to the bottom of this. 



Tylor said:


> I won't name names but I've talked to a couple very well respected luthiers who have said they've seen quite an increase in repairs on music man guitars in the last 5 years.



If you don't want to name names, don't even bother. Unless these guys shouldn't be working on EBMM stuff, as in not at authorized dealers or repair centers, that's one thing, but it's not like they're going to lose credibility if they tell the truth, at least they shouldn't if they're honest. 

This being sworn to secrecy thing is annoying and does little more than add conjecture.



TheBigGroove said:


> Edit: erasing comment so I don't offend the sensitive fanboys more



Why don't quit with the passive aggressive personal attacks or I'll erase your account.


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## Brandonparty (Oct 5, 2015)

First off, I am sorry to hear about all the issues you have had with the EBMM stuff - I just have to say that being a current owner (JPX7/Majesty 7) and being located in Edmonton as well, I have to think most of this is just bad luck. Additionally, some of the blame could be placed on the dealer and they way these things were handled once delivered for retail...assuming these were all coming through L&M?? Regardless, it is tough to hear that they have been reluctant to offer a better solution for you.

I have owned 10+ EBMM guitars from as early as 02/03 and right up to several 2014/15 models - I have yet to have ANY issue with the exception of a missing trem bar on my Majesty 6, which customer service at EBMM took care of in a hurry. Just pointing to my own experiences, the quality to me seems to have only gotten better in recent years - if nothing else, equal.


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## yellowv (Oct 5, 2015)

People talk a lot of crap about EBMM CS, but they have always been great with me. I had a JPX with rough finish on two tuners. I called and AJ sent me two new tuners. I had a low but on the same guitar. Being that it was second hand I paid for the replacement. The finish wasn't right around the nut when I got it back. They paid to ship it back and then admitted the mistake and replaced the entire neck on their dime. That was a $600 repair that they made on an out of warranty guitar be they f'ed up. Those are my experiences with EBMM CS.


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## tjrlogan (Oct 5, 2015)

From my own experience - they're not perfect for sure. I bought 3 new EBMM's JPs in 2012...all had issues. 1) A jpxi 7 with poor fret work. 2) A BFR tobacco burst 7 with weird lines/indents in the back finish. 3) A jpx-7 that mysteriously had some finish flaking after practically no use. I gave up on new and now only buy used.


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## Tylor (Oct 5, 2015)

Brandonparty said:


> First off, I am sorry to hear about all the issues you have had with the EBMM stuff - I just have to say that being a current owner (JPX7/Majesty 7) and being located in Edmonton as well, I have to think most of this is just bad luck. Additionally, some of the blame could be placed on the dealer and they way these things were handled once delivered for retail...assuming these were all coming through L&M?? Regardless, it is tough to hear that they have been reluctant to offer a better solution for you.
> 
> I have owned 10+ EBMM guitars from as early as 02/03 and right up to several 2014/15 models - I have yet to have ANY issue with the exception of a missing trem bar on my Majesty 6, which customer service at EBMM took care of in a hurry. Just pointing to my own experiences, the quality to me seems to have only gotten better in recent years - if nothing else, equal.



Yeah all from L&M man. I think I said it earlier but it could DEFINITELY be the dealers fault, I agree with you there. I'm really not trying to bad talk all EBMM products or anything. Just genuinely wanted to know other's experiences, since mine has been kinda of meh. Still though, my Rosewood axis and JP standard are rock solid guitars. The axis and my JPXI we're stolen (and returned fortunately) and I was pretty crushed about the axis. I wouldn't have been sad about replacing the JPXI though.


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## Tylor (Oct 5, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> I still know a lot of the techs and shop guys I worked with from way back when and none have mentioned a rise in EBMM issues, and two work at dealers who stock EBMM guitars and basses.
> 
> I don't think EBMM is the be-all end-all in quality, and I've voiced my opinion on the BFR stuff, but everything I've played recently (stuff built in the last 6 to 12 months) has been just as solid as the stuff I own, which is a few years older, and stuff I've seen in the past.
> 
> ...



PM'd you Max. Also, storage on the original BFR that was wonky plus the JPXI have been great. Always in the case, well humidified and temperature controlled. So no excuses for those guitars. The replacement BFR has seen a ton of tour use and trailer time in all seasons so I definitely accept the twisting of that one more than the others. Stuff happens when guitars take beatings.


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## toiletstand (Oct 5, 2015)

i have a ebmm jp12 bali burst that has some issues with the truss rod. i also own a ebmm jp koa that sounds phenomenal and plays super well and is verrry stable


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 5, 2015)

Tylor said:


> PM'd you Max. Also, storage on the original BFR that was wonky plus the JPXI have been great. Always in the case, well humidified and temperature controlled. So no excuses for those guitars. The replacement BFR has seen a ton of tour use and trailer time in all seasons so I definitely accept the twisting of that one more than the others. Stuff happens when guitars take beatings.



Read your PM. 

So how does a short off hand remark by one builder become what I quoted from you before? 

You said:


> I won't name names but I've talked to a couple very well respected luthiers who have said they've seen quite an increase in repairs on music man guitars in the last 5 years.



That actually makes what you said even more suspect. 

I get it, you want to be taken seriously, but stretching the truth to beef up your story isn't how you do it.


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## Tylor (Oct 5, 2015)

Local guys talking about repairs in the last 5 years him talking about what he's seen. I don't really see why I'd have an ulterior motive of emailing him about problems and solutions we could come up with in a custom to avoid the same problems happening just to post on this board >_> months later.
EDIT: Is a short hand comment not enough? we were discussing custom specs and how to beef up a neck to be warp resistant (I mentioned EBMM only to say why I was looking to have a bullet proof neck) not EBMM and their QC issues.


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## TheBigGroove (Oct 6, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Why don't quit with the passive aggressive personal attacks or I'll erase your account.



Yeah you've got a point. My bad dude.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 6, 2015)

TheBigGroove said:


> Yeah, you've got a point, that was an unnecessarily dick'ish thing to say. my bad. That being said, there really wasn't anything personal about it and I wasn't targeting anyone individually. Seems a tad extreme for the first time someone's made an ass of themselves.



Sorry, that kind of stuff doesn't have a place here. We're all adults.  

It's very big (no pun) of you to admit it, and obviously I didn't erase your account, or ban you, or anything really. Just a reminder to check yourself before you wreck yourself.


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## TheBigGroove (Oct 6, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Sorry, that kind of stuff doesn't have a place here. We're all adults.
> 
> It's very big (no pun) of you to admit it, and obviously I didn't erase your account, or ban you, or anything really. Just a reminder to check yourself before you wreck yourself.



Oh that makes sense. I think I just misread you and got a little freaked out is all...would honestly be a little devastating not to use the classifieds here. Anyways, appreciate it.


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## b7string (Oct 7, 2015)

Just gonna throw this out there, living in Edmonton, Canada as well...

A lot of US companies will deal directly with US customers for issues for warranty or otherwise, as being all in the same country, I think it's easier to just cut out the middleman (I'm speculating a little here). I have found that whenever I've had issues where I had to go through a Canadian dealer for warranty work or otherwise, I have been disappointed, especially in the timeliness of responses. 

The one time I had a great experience was with TC Electronic, but I got to deal directly with them. Any time I've had to go back through a dealer/distributor, it just muddies the waters, and I suspect that is the case with Music Man in Canada. 

Just my $0.02... ($0.0153 USD  )


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## noise in my mind (Oct 9, 2015)

I really like EBMM, and I have owned 5. I did not have any neck issues, but I did have bad factory fret jobs on a few. I prefer other companies these days, but I still have a lot of love for ebmm for some reason. I guess when they get it right they make a fantastic guitar.


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## Sermo Lupi (Oct 9, 2015)

Going to throw my own experience in here, since it's relevant.

I've owned 3 EBMMs, all of which were JPs, and one of which came direct from the factory (the other two were purchased used). They vary in age quite a bit: my first one is from 2001, finished on the 4th day of production after the very first JP ever, the second was from 2007 (purchased used; I've since sold it) and the third was purchased brand new in late 2009. Aside from a marginally thicker neck on the 2009 model (which I actually like), all three guitars are nearly identical and of consistently high quality. You seem to be saying their production quality has fallen off over the past 5 years or so, and I can't really speak toward that seeing as my newest instrument is from 2009, but in my experience EBMM's production has been very consistent over the years. So if I were in your shoes, I'd take the whole "they're having problems sourcing quality wood" comments with a huge grain of salt. It just seems like conjecture that, as Max said, came from an offhand remark that probably shouldn't be read into. 

Also, having played countless EBMMs in-store, I've only encountered a "dud" once. It was a JPX I found at a store in Edmonton back in 2010, and it similarly had serious problems with the neck. The strings were all choked out, the guitar was severely out of tune, and after 2 minutes of trying to fiddle with it I just gave it back to the employee working there and told him it needs a set-up. I returned to the store a few days later (I was shopping for a new amp at the time), picked up the JPX again to see if they had fixed it, and sure enough it felt like the employee just hung it back up on the rack right after I left. Here's the thing though: that's probably EXACTLY what he did. Whether it truly was a twisted neck or just a horrendously bad set-up, I have no doubt the store was at fault for the condition of that guitar. This store in particular is notorious for that kind of behavior...they just have piles and piles of boutique amps stacked on the floor getting kicked all day long, and their guitars are rarely set-up properly even though they only stock high-end stuff. The sad thing is that you see that sh*t in Edmonton all the time. Stores with lots of stock, but guitars that aren't particularly well cared for. 

As for the "Canadian climate" being an issue, I sincerely doubt it. I've kept my guitars in very humid conditions on the East coast and very dry conditions in Alberta, and they were fine in both circumstances with very minimal maintenance. Now that I'm in the UK, they seem even more stable. It honestly just sounds like you got a few duds. It sucks and I understand your frustration, but I don't think this is a case of "stupid guitar can't handle the Canadian cold" or anything like that. 

Best of luck with this, though. Hopefully you find a solution that leaves you happy. (And +1 to the advice recommending you contact EBMM personally. They were always very helpful with my queries and responded to them quickly. I never had a major issue though, so your mileage may vary).


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## canuck brian (Oct 9, 2015)

I have a friend that plays over 200 shows a year and he says he's frequently adjusting all his 3 Axis guitars due to the neck going every direction and not staying put.

Other than that, every Music Man i've worked on has been impeccable, but that's a limited experience.

As for the weather thing - i've got clients with my guitars that have an oil finish in Fort McMurray Alberta that don't have issues. Where I live is also humid as hell.


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## Andromalia (Oct 10, 2015)

Climate isn't that big a factor anyway, climate _change _is. if you're gigging in Norway and in Senegal the next day yes your tech will have a bad day. But people seem ok with guitars in norway given you can't open a door without stumbling on a BM band there.  (And I raise you a "I lived in Irleand for 3 years and didn't have any issue" for the ....ty weather contest.)


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## Nlelith (Oct 11, 2015)

^ It depends. I have to control the humidity in my room during a dry season, because it can drop down to 10-15%. And that *is* a big factor. Needless to say, I store my guitars in cases.


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## Sermo Lupi (Oct 11, 2015)

Andromalia said:


> Climate isn't that big a factor anyway, climate _change _is. if you're gigging in Norway and in Senegal the next day yes your tech will have a bad day. But people seem ok with guitars in norway given you can't open a door without stumbling on a BM band there.  (And I raise you a "I lived in Irleand for 3 years and didn't have any issue" for the ....ty weather contest.)



Well, yeah. But that's what winter is, a change of seasons/climate  It's not as rapid as a flight overseas, but it definitely still affects instruments to some degree. 

What a lot of people don't realize is that Canada gets absurdly hot in the summers as well as rather cold in the winters. In Alberta, you might see +40C (104F) in the summers, and -40C (-40F) in the winter. Some of you Americans are probably laughing at that being called "absurdly hot," but it's weather that'll make even the most balmy Vancouverites swelter. The point being that it's a wide enough range that I can see where Tylor is coming from in suspecting the climate might be playing a factor. It has been known to cause havoc on instruments if they're not cared for; for example, if they're kept in a store in an area with a frequently opened door, or in an unheated garage, etc. etc. 

Personally I'm dismissing it because I haven't see too many high-quality instruments affected by the change of seasons in Canada, even given the fairly wild temperature and humidity swings. It's always possible, I guess, but this isn't a bookcase from Wicker Emporium built with unseasoned timber. The EBMM stuff is usually fairly stable in these circumstances.


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## avinu (Oct 12, 2015)

Well I'll chime in... got a Sterling JP100. It played great at first and then out of nowhere the neck went straight up exorcist on me (kept in a climate controlled environment/case). Also, the truss rod tension controller thingy was free spinning (figured that wasn't a good sign either). Customer service said they would fix it. They sent it back with higher gauged strings (butchered the nut) and the tension springs all directed to a single corner. To me it was pretty clear they were trying everything they could to not replace the neck. After that CS pretty much started ignoring me. I've been calm and civil the whole time. So yeah it's pretty clear to me their CS has no conviction with fixing major issues with their guitars. In saying that... this was for a Sterling model. So I don't know if this is the same CS as the the "real deal" EBMM. 

I guess my question is does anyone know if CS deals with both Sterling and Music Man, or are those companies mutually exclusive?


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 12, 2015)

avinu said:


> I guess my question is does anyone know if CS deals with both Sterling and Music Man, or are those companies mutually exclusive?



Everything I've read online, and talking to folks who usually know what's up in these cases, Sterling is run kind of like how PRS runs the SE line. Same company, etc. but there's a whole different marketing, service, and operations team. 

That said, did you send the guitar to EBMM's actual facility or was it shipped to a third party authorized repair center? A lot of the times work like this is farmed out to agents in the repair network and not handled by EBMM itself. 

It's also kind of odd, if the guitar was under warranty, they wouldn't just offer replacement through the dealer/retailer. I received a JP7 with a dinged up finish and they [both the dealer and EBMM] offered to just replace it.


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## avinu (Oct 13, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> Everything I've read online, and talking to folks who usually know what's up in these cases, Sterling is run kind of like how PRS runs the SE line. Same company, etc. but there's a whole different marketing, service, and operations team.
> 
> That said, did you send the guitar to EBMM's actual facility or was it shipped to a third party authorized repair center? A lot of the times work like this is farmed out to agents in the repair network and not handled by EBMM itself.
> 
> It's also kind of odd, if the guitar was under warranty, they wouldn't just offer replacement through the dealer/retailer. I received a JP7 with a dinged up finish and they [both the dealer and EBMM] offered to just replace it.



Nice, I'm glad to hear that. And yes, I sent it to their facility out in CA. As far as I know they didn't use a third party but I wouldn't rule it out as a possibility. The guitar was under warranty at the time I filled the RO number or whatever. That's what has me so confused man. I figured with something like a neck getting warped they'd just toss me a new guitar...


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