# Needing some help getting the mud out of extreme drop tuning



## kerleyben (Oct 11, 2014)

So far when I tune down lower then D on my 8 string, I'm having trouble with getting my distortion to sound right. Generally it gets really muddy and it's hard to get that out using the amp's EQ without it sounding shrill and piercing. This could be my amp (a Peavey 6505 combo), my guitar (an Agile Hornet 8 string with Dimarzio D-activators), or my inexperience with tuning lower then 8 string drop E. I should state that the reason for these questions is because I'm getting a new guitar that I will be tuning to B0 and I'm worried about how to get the sound I want. Is there an EQ pedal or something along the lines of that that I should try using? How does everyone else get it to sound so awesome at an extreme drop tuning? What's some good distortion to use? What's a good amp/cab/head? I'd really like to hear what everyone does to get their axe sounding great.


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## rockskate4x (Oct 11, 2014)

My first inclination is to ask if you are using any sort of tubescreamer or tubescreamer variant to boost the front end of your amp. Many other people here have explained it's benefits, but in a nutshell, it cuts bass and focuses the sound in your upper mids, when gain is set to 0, vol is set to max, and tone is set to taste. You will find that you will not need as much gain from your amp, which means you will have a clearer sound. No matter what kind of metal oriented amp you use, this will be beneficial for any low tuning. An EQ with a gain boost can be manipulated to emulate this effect as well.


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## Winspear (Oct 11, 2014)

What gauge strings are you using?


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## codyblast (Oct 11, 2014)

You'll want a long as shit guitar to go to B man. Thick strings compensating for shorter scales sounds nowhere near as good as a thinner string on a long scale. You'll need at LEAST 28" and hopefully no bigger than a 0.90 string.

Then guitar > tubescreamer/compresser/gate > amp with MINIMAL gain, maximum mids and cut bass and treble to taste. Should come out okay.

Also I know a lot of people swear by D activators but I haven't heard them sound good in anything lower than G in my opinion 

edit: Also picking technique is incredibly important down there, you gotta keep that playing TIGHT as hell


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## facepalm66 (Oct 12, 2014)

codyblast said:


> Also I know a lot of people swear by D activators but I haven't heard them sound good in anything lower than G in my opinion



THe DA's sound good in any tuning, then it's up for the guitar, the amp and the player, hence the dynamics, to sound perfect. 

Also, I found that DA's do not like a lot of mids.


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## 7stg (Oct 12, 2014)

codyblast said:


> You'll want a long as shit guitar to go to B man. Thick strings compensating for shorter scales sounds nowhere near as good as a thinner string on a long scale. You'll need at LEAST 28" and hopefully no bigger than a 0.90 string.




An Ibanez m80m or Agile 830 are great options. Anything else is a band-ade that may make some improvement, but it doesn't fix the root problem, inharmonicity.


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## GunpointMetal (Oct 12, 2014)

Pre-Amp EQ and OD are probably gonna be your friends. I've only messed around a little bit with D/C tuning on my eight, but to get it sounding alright I was running an EQ in front of the OD before it hit any amp in the chain. I'm doing this all digitally of course, but the idea is the same. I like to set my pre-amp EQ without any of the gain stages on yet and get it sounding clear and punchy at that first stage, which seems to make dialing in the amp after inserting a TS-type overdrive effect much easier. It has also seemed like, to me, that you need even LESS gain to stay clear the lower you go to stay clear.


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## kerleyben (Oct 13, 2014)

The guitar i will be tuning to B is a 28.625" scale 8 string neck-through with Seymour Duncan Blackouts. I do have a sort of high-end overdrive pedal called a JHS Angry Charlie that works similarly to a tube screamer. I'm gonna try all this. Thanks for the help! Anyone know of a good EQ to run before my amp?


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## ben_hurt (Oct 13, 2014)

Tube screamer should help. Super thick distortion will sound great on it's own, but for tight and fast playing live with a whole band you need less grit than you think...


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## simonXsludge (Oct 13, 2014)

You're basically fighting physics here. I have just recently tried the new Ibanez 9-string Prestige and those come tuned to C# at 28" with a .90 string and are equipped with BKPs. I recorded a clip with the RG90 and RG9. A lot of people liked it either way and I think it came out okay:

https://soundcloud.com/sludgestudios/rg90vsrg9

To tune even lower on that scale will never give you the bite, attack and clarity of a guitar, pretty much no matter what. You are trying to tune it like a bass, at a shorter scale and with thinner strings than a bass at that. Yet, you will have to use very thick strings, which will create more tension, but naturally sound "thicker", so to speak. Guess how that's gonna sound like... muddy and not really tight.

I also own the just under 30" scale Ibanez M80M. I can maaaybe see a tuning at around C# work with a .90 gauge string on that one, but I only ever went as far as D# with it and usually keep it in F, because despite it not being tuned as low, it sounds heavier. I feel like people mistake low for heavy most of the time, but a guitar just doesn't sound as aggressive with super low tunings. I guess that's why you don't hear a whole lot of music with super low tunings that sounds good. I have yet to hear anything really pleasing in a tuning that low. Inb4 "but Glass Cloud", I don't think they sound good. Live it's especially bad.

That's all the insight I can personally give you.


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## Maverick187 (Oct 31, 2014)

haha this is crazy, and here I am thinking Drop F was super low!! 

I do agree with Simons points. Sonically it opens a lot of different doors for style of play, but ive found if youre after really straightforward heaviness, you get more impact from something like Drop A, G etc. (not Double drop) I feel like unless your playing a lot of slow single notes, you really lose that massive impact?

Im not hating on what you guys are doing at all though, I think its awesome! thought id just add my 2 cents from what Ive found playing in a fast hardcore band tuned to F, we have slowly been tuning up as time goes on to regain some of that aggressiveness in the guitars.


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## Maverick187 (Oct 31, 2014)

I should add as well, following on again from Simon, your never going to get a fantastic (subjectively speaking however) tone from something that low by itself, especially live. You have to subtract and then re-add too many things to really get something that stands strong by itself. 

Right choice in your 6505, they are great. Might be worthwhile however investing in a 4x12 for live. Something with bright speakers, say v30s. You can also mod your 6505 to emphasise certain eq frequencies, maybe some high end and mid boost. Failing that, an eq pedal doing the same. A tubescreamer pedal will help to pump the high end. 

You want to also cut some bass on the amp, and pump the treble and mid a little more. All this will probably make your tone fairly shrill and harsh, but when you blend it with your bass player it should thicken it out. As I said its probably not going to be great by itself.

Add on to the fact that 99% of gigs your playing through rubbish to average at best PAs, the effect is going to be lost on a lot of people, so there is only so much you can do.


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## yingmin (Oct 31, 2014)

This is exactly why I think ERGs should have active EQ.


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## thrashmetal85 (Oct 31, 2014)

You may get better results with an amp modeller. The real thing doesn't like ultra low frequencies, whereas the simulated version will maintain tightness in the low end.


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## notasian (Oct 31, 2014)

idk what picks your using but smooth and thick ones like the black ice make my guitar sounds muddy, im rocking a dunlap tortex .50mm pick, is super thin and it scratches the string nicely to clear up any low end

might help a little


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