# Teach me how to sing



## Drew (Dec 4, 2007)

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/of...ve-anyone-s-voice-who-would-4.html#post748541

Building off this post in the "whose voice do you want" thread, you guys all either love my speaking voice or love to bust my balls about it, but I absolutely cannot sing. Seeing as I'd probably get laid a lot more as a vocalist than as a guitarist, I should probably work on this (as the worth in doing any undertaking is directly proportional to the increase in your odds of getting laid. It's science). 

So, um, any tips, drills, suggestions, whatever, post up. Suggested rreading? Dont's? Anything? I'm not really looking to do death metal growing or anything like that, but to just be able to have good vocal tone and carry a tune.


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## noodles (Dec 4, 2007)

You don't need to sing. Just record a 70s porn soundtrack and say, "Mmmm, baby" a whole lot.


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## Rick (Dec 4, 2007)

noodles said:


> You don't need to sing. Just record a 70s porn soundtrack and say, "Mmmm, baby" a whole lot.



That should work.


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## noodles (Dec 4, 2007)

In all seriousness, dude, find a good vocal coach. Vocal instruction is invaluable to learning to sing properly, and it is really hard to figure it out by watching DVDs. You need someone talking you through it, since you need to learn to breathe first.


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## eaeolian (Dec 4, 2007)

1.) Buy a full-length mirror, an outrageous wardrobe, and your own mic stand.

2.) Dis girls constantly, show up late and f**ked up to gigs, and complain and walk off early because the monitors "suck".


3.) Profit!


(Hey, it worked for Axl Rose.)


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## Drew (Dec 4, 2007)

The problem though, Dave, is that right now I'd be seriously embarrassed to sing in front of someone else.  If at all possible (and I realize it may nto be) I'd rather just do some stuff I could practiice in my bedroom or in my car on the drive to work or somehting.

Like, most people I know can kind of carry a tune, wheras I cannot. I'm sure it's something stupid, but...


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## eaeolian (Dec 4, 2007)

Singing takes three things:

3.) Knowledge of your abilities
2.) Practice
1.) Confidence.

Pretty much everyone *can* sing, at least a little - my 3 year old daughter generally hits the pitches better than most radio rock singers, for example - but lack the confidence to do so.

Now, trying to sing Dio or Opera will require work, but I'll bet you can already sing - you just have to practice enough to be confident at it.


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## Rommel (Dec 4, 2007)

This should help.
Rock Vocal Lessons by Jim Gillette


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## velocity (Dec 4, 2007)

another good source is the "rock and roll singers survival guide" by mark baxter. it's an amazing reference for self instruction. i've been using it for 13-14 years. he has a dvd out as well, but get the book for sure. the dvd is more how to repair your voice after damaging it kind of thing.


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## robanomoly (Dec 4, 2007)

+1 for going to a vocal coach. They can provide feedback and direction specific to your strengths and weaknesses (unlike a book or DVD which will tell you the same thing everytime). Plus, taking lessons seems to make people practice more consistantly, and that is what will help your singing advance.


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## Randy (Dec 4, 2007)

I'm still trying to learn my voice... I have noticed that being very confident in yourself and the note you're hitting makes a big difference. 

But above everything else, a vocal coach or at least a few lessons should help tons; like everyone else said.

Just for the record, also, Jim Gillette could probably shatter a human skull into several pieces using his voice.


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## halsinden (Dec 4, 2007)

kinda have to stick my oar in here at some point, as im basically a pretender to this board anyway (i just really like guitars, but its not my main job).

there are loads of great DVDs and books about, but to be honest if youre anything like me youll be wanting to make a pretty basic step inwards before you invest serious money.

my suggestion is that you find your all time favourite singalong track, get either a tape recorder or a mic thats for the room and not handheld at your mouth, wait til nobodys in the house and belt it out along to the song. have a listen.

each time you listen, try and point out bits you dont like in what you hear, but each time you go to record it again, turn the volume down on the song itself. what youre aiming to do eventually is get to the point where youve got one earphone in from an MP3 player and youre singing directly into a microphone, recording it. this will take a while and each time youll reckon youre a prime nonce for doing it, but once youve got just yourself recorded theres really no better way of spotting your own errors. be prepared to be surprised, if not shocked.

once youve done that, then record it unaccompanied, from memory.

next, see if your voice sounds weak, small or tight either end of the range that the singing makes you reach (low or high), that way youll be able to spot where your natural range lies. for instance, im a huge bowie fan and i reckon my clean singing is somewhere between david sylvian and him, but im totally buggered by reaching the higher notes in tunes such as china girl, ergo - im not a tenor.

once you have an idea of where you lie and what your voice ACTUALLY sounds like, not just what its like when you can hear a pre-recorded song surrounding it, and you feel ok about that, then you can go on to addressing the vast wasteland that is vocal technique, which im more than happy to help with should you want.

for reference sake, i was trained for 2 years by various vocal coaches using the feldenchrist and alexander techniques predominantly, and more specifically was trained as a classical bass/baritone, though my teachings in that had little impact on my work as a singer in interlock and other bands. my girlfriend is also studying to become a LAMDA voice coach.

remember, singing is a natural response to music, playing guitar isnt. people have been singing wrong for centuries, its just a matter of selecting what genre you want to perform in and adjusting accordingly.

hope that helps.

H


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## BigM555 (Dec 4, 2007)

If you want a few pointers before you go see a coach I got some good stuff out of this series.






I can't say I like Bogert's voice that much but he does seem to know what he's talking about.

He covers the basics of breathing. The "head, nose, throat and gut tones", projection, etc.

Bonus: They can be had dirt cheap these days.


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## darren (Dec 4, 2007)

Pirate shirts.

It's all about the pirate shirts.


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## velocity (Dec 4, 2007)

darren said:


> Pirate shirts.
> 
> It's all about the pirate shirts.



i didn't realize you had seen my closets


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## Drew (Dec 4, 2007)

halsinden said:


> stuff, making use of the word "nonce"



Actually, that does, a ton. Thanks!


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## noodles (Dec 4, 2007)

Seriously, dude, find a vocal coach. You will save yourself so much time with the help of a pro. You start finding out that you don't know how to breathe, and you pronounce words wrong.

Case in point: when helping our bassist learn backup vox to one of our tunes, we noticed he did two things wrong:

1) Took a deep breath.
2) Sang, "From apathy".

What he was supposed to do is:

1) Take a quick "sip" of air.
2) Sing, "Fruh ma-pa-thay".

There is just too much to think about, and having someone right there to correct you as you go along puts you far ahead of the curve. You can see someone's fingering and hand positions on a DVD, but you cannot see what is happening inside of your chest cavity. You need someone there helping you with that.


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## Leon (Dec 4, 2007)

i've found a few albums that my voice seems to do well on, like Incubus' S.C.I.E.N.C.E. , and that's the stuff that i'll tend to *practice* with. basically, just singing along with the album, and slowing turning down the album volume until i can hear myself enough to get the pitch right, but still hearing the album pitch to get to.

i'd LOVE to find a vocal coach, but then, i'd also like to take more (read: start) guitar lessons, which i haven't yet, because they cost money i don't have 

as far as in front of others, i've tried singing here and there in the past, but had my first real GO at it this past Sunday night at band practice. we're trying to do Townsend's Vampira, and i opted to sing. it was funny, because all the parts i thought i was going to do well on, i didn't, and the part i was worried about (those high notes he hits just before the vampira growl), i nailed.

so, i think i have a good singing voice, just not the growly kind.


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## noodles (Dec 4, 2007)

Funny thing about the high notes: you either drill them or miss them. Since it is more of a stretch to hit, you wind up projecting good, which lets you hit the note. With notes that are in your comfort zone, the untrained singer tends to sing quiter and less confidently, meaning everything comes out flat and weak.


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## budda (Dec 4, 2007)

the vocal coach thing is the best advice here. but in the mean time, sing along to songs you like! i dont think im a great singer by any means, but i can hold a tune and i enjoy singing along with many albumbs i own.

like everything else with music, practise and confidence is a big part. just sing along to some songs. maybe pick up an acoustic, play G, C, D, repeat, and freestyle some lyrics.


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## Leon (Dec 4, 2007)

noodles said:


> Funny thing about the high notes: you either drill them or miss them. Since it is more of a stretch to hit, you wind up projecting good, which lets you hit the note. With notes that are in your comfort zone, the untrained singer tends to sing quiter and less confidently, meaning everything comes out flat and weak.





putting a solid amount of air behind the words sounds way better than being sheepish. i found that out when i was trying to sing along to some albums into a mic, and discovered that i had to sing like no one was within 100 miles of me to get them out . over time, that built me enough confidence to be where i'm at now... enough to say, "eh, i'll give it a try," when your drummer asks everyone, "ok, who's singing on this one?" when no one else replies


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## Popsyche (Dec 5, 2007)

I'll sing anywhere, anytime for any reason if I should or not. To be successful, there are some basic techniques you must master regarding support and phrasing. That dvd lesson that mentioned the different types of voices would be a good try to start.

Remember, just like a pipe organ, your voice requires a column of air. No air, no sound, and the air column must be steady to support your pitch.


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## The Dark Wolf (Dec 5, 2007)

1. Chris has a great voice. Ask him to perhaps go over some stuff with you.

2. Sing all the time. Seriously. It's like everything else. All these ideas are good, but really, you just keep doing it over and over and over. I am constantly singing... consequently, I'm a pretty good singer.


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## Naren (Dec 5, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> 1. Chris has a great voice. Ask him to perhaps go over some stuff with you.
> 
> 2. Sing all the time. Seriously. It's like everything else. All these ideas are good, but really, you just keep doing it over and over and over. I am constantly singing... consequently, I'm a pretty good singer.



1.  I was just listening to "For You" on my way to work. He has a great voice.

2. Same here. I have both good days and bad days for my voice. One of the things is to sing all the time. Sometimes I annoy my girlfriend because I'll just randomly start singing about her or about peanut butter or about whatever we're doing. But I love going to karaoke all the time. Original karaoke (it originally comes from Japan) is nothing like it is in the US. I hate American karaoke. In Japanese karaoke, you go to a small room with just a few of your friends, pay for several hours and sing as much as you like. Through that I've realized which songs I'm not good at and which songs I am good at. I'm mostly a mid-range singer with a little more high range than low range. However, I always sing songs in their original key (when I sing "Tears" by X Japan, I have to raise it up 5 half steps to get to the original key and I can sing that perfectly. But for "Forever Love" which is only 2 half steps up for the original key, I have a lot of trouble on the chorus). And the way to improve yourself is to work on your weaknesses. But, like Bob said, you have to sing a lot.

And confidence is also very important in singing. Sometimes I'll pick a song that I think I know in karaoke and start singing it without knowing the song at all, after all, and I'll just make up the vocal melody and sing it according to how I guess it should be sang, but since I'm doing it with a lot of confidence, everyone else thinks I know the song and am singing it the way it's supposed to be sung.


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## Leon (Dec 5, 2007)

in America, you sing with the karaoke. in Japan, karaoke sings you!


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## Zepp88 (Dec 5, 2007)

Project! I've found that I've gotten the best singing results by just letting loose, and moving the most air I can, also learning how to pace breathing etc. 

I often sing in the car to whatever song I feel confident singing, and sometimes I hear results from my self that I enjoy. I've gone from having absolutely no singing ability or confidence to now I'm actually juggling around the notion or singing in a band setting. 

Really, you have to find your range. I personally cannot hit high notes with out sounding like an alarm clock, thin shrill and blech.


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## The Dark Wolf (Dec 5, 2007)

Naren said:


> 2. Same here. I have both good days and bad days for my voice. One of the things is to sing all the time. Sometimes I annoy my girlfriend because I'll just randomly start singing about her or about peanut butter or about whatever we're doing. But I love going to karaoke all the time. Original karaoke (it originally comes from Japan) is nothing like it is in the US. I hate American karaoke. In Japanese karaoke, you go to a small room with just a few of your friends, pay for several hours and sing as much as you like.


1. I do that same stuff with Em, E .  Sing just nonsense to her about ricockulous stuff.

2. Heh. We do 'Japanoake' all the time anymore ourselves. We've got some friends in a band, and those fools love to sing Karaoake to Guitar Pro after practice. So, I stole the concept, and now we do it there and at our studio, all the time, since we have a great PA and I just bring my computer. You're right... American style can be fun, but being totally fucking tanked with all your friends and singing? Blast.


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## Naren (Dec 5, 2007)

The Dark Wolf said:


> 1. I do that same stuff with Em, E . :lol; Sing just nonsense to her about ricockulous stuff.
> 
> 2. Heh. We do 'Japanoake' all the time anymore ourselves. We've got some friends in a band, and those fools love to sing Karaoake to Guitar Pro after practice. So, I stole the concept, and now we do it there and at our studio, all the time, since we have a great PA and I just bring my computer. You're right... American style can be fun, but being totally fucking tanked with all your friends and singing? Blast.



Yeah, American karaoke can be fun, but you only get 1 song from a very small list of songs, and you do it in front of a ton of people you don't know. I prefer Japanese style because you're with a few of your friends, can sing 10-30 songs, have a much bigger selection (I sing Megadeth, Testament, Metallica, Slayer, Iron Maiden, Children of Bodom, and stuff like that in karaoke in Japan). It's really an enjoyment that most people won't understand until they try it. My friend's plane gets in on Saturday. And, as soon as we get back to my station, I'm taking him to a cool place to eat and drink and then karaoke afterwards. Awesomeness.

My singing about random stuff is pretty extreme. I sing the songs all emotionally and dramatically, so that if you didn't understand Japanese or English (I generally sing in Japanese to my girlfriend and before I moved to Japan, I did this in English), you'd think I'm singing about something very deep and moving instead of the price of cheeseburgers at McDonald's or a certain beer being sold out or about my girlfriend's souveniers.


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## halsinden (Dec 5, 2007)

Leon said:


> i've found a few albums that my voice seems to do well on, like Incubus' S.C.I.E.N.C.E. , and that's the stuff that i'll tend to *practice* with. basically, just singing along with the album, and slowing turning down the album volume until i can hear myself enough to get the pitch right, but still hearing the album pitch to get to.
> 
> i'd LOVE to find a vocal coach, but then, i'd also like to take more (read: start) guitar lessons, which i haven't yet, because they cost money i don't have
> 
> ...



chap, if youre nailing the high notes in vampira and struggling with others then i should imagine its clear that youre quite a high tenor, in that your accuracy (ie. confidence and natural strength) comes out during the sensation of the higher constrictions. im not dissimilar myself as whilst im capable of hitting lower notes, my accuracy and clarity suffers.

what i might suggest is some octave work, in the meantime. a laypersons approach to practicing octave jumps is to sing the first to notes from somewhere over the rainbow (so somewhere). hit this where you feel natural, but then play around it, lower and higher. then, when youre accustomed to that note difference, try reversing it and going from high to low but starting on a note you know you can hit well, when you do hit the low below it concentrate on the clarity of it and whether the actual pitch is consistent throughout. if it feels sharp and thin sounding, then you may just need to sing higher.

incubus would be great, yes. personally, ive used brandons performance in tunes like drive and wish you were here to improve the edge of fast note transference, for example he adds a number of embellishments in the verse sections of drive that are fantastic to learn, slow down, make sure that each note he jumps from is clearly performed. for me, i sometimes struggle to reach a few of the higher points of his range but you should be fine.

additionally, if you find that you have the time & inclination, something an old tutor used to suggest was learning the guitar parts at the same time as singing the songs vocals, if you have both available. that way you begin with adjusting to that level of coordination; something i find nearly impossible yet im very comfortable playing drums and singing at the same time.

H


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## 7 Dying Trees (Dec 5, 2007)

noodles said:


> You don't need to sing. Just record a 70s porn soundtrack and say, "Mmmm, baby" a whole lot.


William Shatner has made a musical career out of this.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Dec 5, 2007)

i once took a "voice for instrumentalists" class and i learned a bunch, but with the exception of one time in that class, i've never managed to make my singing not sound nasal. it was basically a fluke that i did it the one time, and that was guided by the teacher, and i've never been able to recreate it. any suggestions?


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## Emiliano (Dec 11, 2007)

i never took singing lesson
but i understood how to push air tring to yelling(singing)
when i'm in the car and going somewhere
( nevermind the look of other drivers when you stop at a crossing )
you really have to push air!

now i can sing much more "efficently"
and i found myself getting higher than before in pitch
with more air power behind to sing

m2c


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## Ext789 (Dec 14, 2007)

everyone should record clips of themselves singing, i wanna hear what everyone sounds like now haha


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## Stitch (Dec 14, 2007)

Bree bree squee bree.


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## yevetz (Dec 14, 2007)

I always training my voice. I just playing scales, boxes, pentatonics and sing the notes. Anyway I was in a back vocal in my previus band


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel (Dec 14, 2007)

The Mellisa Cross Instructional DVD has some good air management techniques.


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## drshock (Dec 14, 2007)

Ext789 said:


> everyone should record clips of themselves singing, i wanna hear what everyone sounds like now haha



I agree, there should be a "post your vocal recordings" thread. Who else is down? I can't record anything until I get my new mixer though.


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## eleven59 (Dec 14, 2007)

Here's a couple of mine:

A cover (my most recent, and probably my favourite):
[media]http://www.filenanny.com/files/471e2defa4d6c8988/THE%20BEGINNING%20OF%20THE%20END.mp3[/media]

And a couple originals (rough, will be getting some reworking later):
[media]http://www.filenanny.com/files/471e2defa4d6c8988/ALIVE%20MIX%201.mp3[/media]
[media]http://www.filenanny.com/files/471e2defa4d6c8988/INBOXICATED%20MIX%201.mp3[/media]

Most of my "ability" comes from playing clarinet in high school, and doing a bit of choir/school plays in elementary school. I learned how to breathe properly at a young age, and stuck with it. Now I'm just learning how to manipulate my vocal chords, etc. to create the sounds I want, as well as strengthening my voice and range.


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