# Nolly signature "Polymath" BKPs



## narad

New signature pickups from T̶e̶r̶e̶n̶c̶e̶ ̶T̶a̶o̶ Nolly and BKP:

https://www.musicradar.com/news/bare-knuckle-polymath-pickups







First set of custom BKP pickup covers without a cheesy aesthetic.


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## IwantTacos

I see bkp I buy


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## Lorcan Ward

Yep they sound like BKP from the description and sound samples. Kind of like a mix between the Nailbomb and Black Hawks.


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## Dudley

So bummed out that I finally ordered a set of Silo’s, after literal years of trying to work out what to put in my Mayones, and then these come out. Description sounds like exactly what I was after and Nolly is obviously the man when it comes to tone.

Need to find a new guitar to house a set of these in….


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## narad

Holy shit though - 299GBP!? I had seen the cost of one pickup and thought it was for the full set... That's like TGP PAF replica pricing.


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## Apex1rg7x

Pretty hefty price increase went into effect this morning. Still gonna buy these though.


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## KnightBrolaire

400 bucks? fuck that, 300-350$ a set was already hard to swallow.


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## wheresthefbomb

That cover looks super rad, but thinking about cleaning my gross hand gunk out of those crevices immediately convinced me otherwise. I'll stick with raw nickel. 

Gotta give BKP props for doing a cover design other than "HEY EVERYONE I PLAY CALL OF DUTY"


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## CanserDYI

There are way too many good sounding pickups to spend 400 bucks on pickups.


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## Albake21

These seem awesome and right up my alley, but these BKP prices are just too crazy for me. I'll be sticking to Seymour Duncan in the states.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

I uhhh actually like that cover. 

But yeah uh the description sounds like every other djent pickup. 

"Perfectly balanced EQ, great dynamics, pristine split clean sounds."


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## c7spheres

I know pickup prices are going up like everything else but why are these so expensive? Is it because they can or is there an actual reason like they use unobtainium magnets or something?


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## CanserDYI

c7spheres said:


> I know pickup prices are going up like everything else but why are these so expensive? Is it because they can or is there an actual reason like they use unobtainium magnets or something?


Nolly+BKP=something expensive.


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## ElysianGuitars

Is the cover even included in that price? Doesn't seem like it.


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## KnightBrolaire

ElysianGuitars said:


> Is the cover even included in that price? Doesn't seem like it.


not included from what i saw


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## that short guy

More pickup options is always a good thing, but no single pickup is worth paying that price in my opinion


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## maliciousteve

It costs £157 over here in the UK for a non signature pickup. That's crazy. I bought an EMG 57 and 66 set last year for the same price. Bareknuckles are great pickups and I've bought plenty of them in the past but I won't be buying them again.


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## Crungy

wheresthefbomb said:


> That cover looks super rad, but thinking about cleaning my gross hand gunk out of those crevices immediately convinced me otherwise. I'll stick with raw nickel.
> 
> Gotta give BKP props for doing a cover design other than "HEY EVERYONE I PLAY CALL OF DUTY"



Which cover design screams that? (I don't play COD so I wouldn't know!)


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## wheresthefbomb

Crungy said:


> Which cover design screams that? (I don't play COD so I wouldn't know!)



All of the "battle scarred" ones look like some cheezy SWAG that came with a CoD collector's edition preorder and make me think of proud boys with beer guts.

I don't play either, I'm just saying things


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## odibrom

... this year I bought 5 Gorilla Pickups (from Italy, I'm European) for my two 6 stringers, 4 humbuckers and 1 single coil. The total sum of these 5 pickups was about 450€ considering that 2 of the hums were custom wound and including shipping. The custom wound humbuckers are spot on for my tastes/needs and the guitar sounds awesome, the other HSH set is pretty good as well, although I don't play that guitar as much.

BKP can do whatever they want with their prices, they won't get my money soon, if ever. They can be good, but they are hyped as shit...

This one's cover is kind of cool... kind of reminding a 70's era... but the description is pure marketing as is with most pickup brands...


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## ElysianGuitars

So I know BKP is pricey, and the new prices seem high, but BKP does things differently from a lot of manufacturers. Everything they do is actually hand guided, they make their own covers, they make their own bobbins, you're getting a very different product than you get from Duncan, Dimarzio, even my own brand. I don't think they're bumping the prices like this purely because they can get away with it or they're greedy, it's just the nature of what they're doing, which is purely boutique pickups built with in house parts. 

That said, pricing may hurt them here, and that's really just because there's not a big market for pickups that cost this much.


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## Kyle Jordan

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I uhhh actually like that cover.
> 
> But yeah uh the description sounds like every other djent pickup.
> 
> "Perfectly balanced EQ, great dynamics, pristine split clean sounds."



It’s also funny they mentioned scooped. Out of the hundreds of humbuckers on the market, I can think of maybe 10 if I’m really stretching that I would call scooped. Nearly every damn humbucker is midrange heavy. Hell, more of them might not sound like shit if they were a bit scooped…


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## Emperoff

Can't wait for threads by people putting these on a Jackson JS22


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## ScottThunes1960

I wonder how many used Strandberg and Aristides listings on Reverb this time next year will include these pickups as an ***UPGRADED*** bullet point.


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## aWoodenShip

Will trade used prestige for pickups


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## Emperoff

odibrom said:


> ... this year I bought 5 Gorilla Pickups (from Italy, I'm European) for my two 6 stringers, 4 humbuckers and 1 single coil. The total sum of these 5 pickups was about 450€ considering that 2 of the hums were custom wound and including shipping. The custom wound humbuckers are spot on for my tastes/needs and the guitar sounds awesome, the other HSH set is pretty good as well, although I don't play that guitar as much.



Will check on those Gorilla pickups. European manufacturer at sane prices sounds like win to me. They don't seem to offer active sized covers, though.


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## Hollowway

ScottThunes1960 said:


> I wonder how many used Strandberg and Aristides listings on Reverb this time next year will include these pickups as an ***UPGRADED*** bullet point.


 I came to post the same thing. We just need to wait for these “upgraded” guitars, but them, and take the pickups out. It’s always “I’ll throw in the original pickups, too,” and they slowly walk the price down to what it would be without their idea of an “upgrade” anyway.


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## John

From the clips, they sound pretty good- which doesn't surprise me.
But seeing how I'm happy with the current BKP offerings I have installed in my current guitars, I don't see a need to burn about 300 quid per newly released pickup anytime soon.


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## Alex79

Sadly, the only BKP I’m considering are the Boot Camp range.
A pickup - excluding the costs of special finishes - simply isn’t worth more than roughly 120€/£.

There is no super special mojo left, just like Tubescreamer or Fuzz pedals it’s been done and copied to death and everything is just a slightly different flavour, but in no way unique anymore. Maybe 10 years ago, when there was less stuff available, but now we have so many alternatives to everything that do the same thing….

Really all we need is for a major pickup brand to offer a Chinese-made series of the same quality level and lower prices and a lot of pickup makers will either follow suit or go bust.


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## TheBolivianSniper

Not touching these with a stick. The stuff was already too expensive and buying used was really the only option but I will say I love my Warpig and based on how it sounds I would say the demos on their website are pretty damn accurate. Their descriptions don't say shit but those sound clips are pretty useful


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## odibrom

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Not touching these with a stick. The stuff was already too expensive and buying used was really the only option but I will say I love my Warpig and based on how it sounds I would say the demos on their website are pretty damn accurate. Their descriptions don't say shit but those sound clips are pretty useful



I'm yet to see the first accurate pickup description... it's always marketing...


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## TheBolivianSniper

odibrom said:


> I'm yet to see the first accurate pickup description... it's always marketing...



Dimarzio typically has pretty accurate descriptions. Besides a few descriptions on sig sets they're not too bullshit.


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## odibrom

TheBolivianSniper said:


> Dimarzio typically has pretty accurate descriptions. Besides a few descriptions on sig sets they're not too bullshit.


... maybe... can't remember at this moment... but I'm not too sure...


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## USMarine75

Well you have to have these if you want to sound like Periphery. Think of all the great albums that were recorded with these.


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## Randy

USMarine75 said:


> Well you have to have these if you want to sound like Periphery. Think of all the great albums that were recorded with these.



I can confirm these are the pickups Nolly used on all his Periphery guitar tracks.


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## KnightBrolaire

USMarine75 said:


> Well you have to have these if you want to sound like Periphery. Think of all the great albums that were recorded with these.


man these dimarzio crunchlabs are gettin hella expensive


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## Emperoff

A BKPs set is now 100€ more expensive than Lundgrens. Add exchange rate and VAT and you end up at like 425€ for a 7-string set. That is *INSANE* for just wire and magnets. I won't be buying anything from them unless used and cheap, that's for sure.

Here's what you do if you want BKP style covers:
https://www.axesrus.co.uk/HBCOV14Hole-p/7lpc-00x-14hole.htm



USMarine75 said:


> Well you have to have these if you want to sound like Periphery. Think of all the great albums that were recorded with these.



He also had them on his bass, synths and mandolins!


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## CanserDYI

ElysianGuitars said:


> So I know BKP is pricey, and the new prices seem high, but BKP does things differently from a lot of manufacturers. Everything they do is actually hand guided, they make their own covers, they make their own bobbins, you're getting a very different product than you get from Duncan, Dimarzio, even my own brand. I don't think they're bumping the prices like this purely because they can get away with it or they're greedy, it's just the nature of what they're doing, which is purely boutique pickups built with in house parts.
> 
> That said, pricing may hurt them here, and that's really just because there's not a big market for pickups that cost this much.


Problem for me is do they SOUND like they're handwound handmade extra pure blahdeeblah? No they sound like good ol machine wound machine stamped pickups in my opinion lol handbuilt means nothing to me outside of aesthetics these days.


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## wheresthefbomb

Randy said:


> I can confirm these are the pickups Nolly used on all his Periphery guitar tracks.



Here I am, the dork who doesn't even listen to this guy's band, scratching my head like "doesn't he play bass?"

Boutique pickups in general hardly seem worth it. I have a BKP Supermassive P90. It's rad, but it's also not 10x better than the $20 P90 it replaced. I have a feeling a Phat Cat would do just as well. I also have a feeling something half the price would perform just as well as the Avedissian Night Prowler I'm using.

Don't get me wrong, these are great pups and I don't feel bilked, but next time around I'll probably just get a phat cat and SD jazz and put the extra $150 toward literally anything else.


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## Edika

£186 for one pickup? That is a SD Balck Winter set there (before the imminent price hike)! I know, different pickups in terms of construction and sound but still!


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## Hollowway

Maybe this is a good place to bring up the thing I saw in a different pup thread: Can't we use an eq to get a generic pickup to sound more like what we want? Like, isn't there a way we can tone-match a pickup by using a graphic eq, and kind of "kemper" it? It seems ridiculous that there are a million pickups out there, and yet everyone trips over themselves to buy the newest one. At the very least, I'd think that a new pickup would sound very similar to something that's already in existence. There's a narrow range of what we are all after, so it seems logical that a little tweaking of an EQ/boost could get a regular pickup to sound like the specific one someone wants.


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## ElysianGuitars

CanserDYI said:


> Problem for me is do they SOUND like they're handwound handmade extra pure blahdeeblah? No they sound like good ol machine wound machine stamped pickups in my opinion lol handbuilt means nothing to me outside of aesthetics these days.


I hear you, I have my own thoughts on that as well, but wouldn't be appropriate here. Just pointing out one of the biggest the reasons why BKP may charge more.


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## KnightBrolaire

Hollowway said:


> Maybe this is a good place to bring up the thing I saw in a different pup thread: Can't we use an eq to get a generic pickup to sound more like what we want? Like, isn't there a way we can tone-match a pickup by using a graphic eq, and kind of "kemper" it? It seems ridiculous that there are a million pickups out there, and yet everyone trips over themselves to buy the newest one. At the very least, I'd think that a new pickup would sound very similar to something that's already in existence. There's a narrow range of what we are all after, so it seems logical that a little tweaking of an EQ/boost could get a regular pickup to sound like the specific one someone wants.


there are literally pickups that will let you do that (Cycfi stuff). You can program them with specific EQs.
There's also some pedal I remember tom quayle messing around with that basically did the same thing.


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## odibrom

Hollowway said:


> Maybe this is a good place to bring up the thing I saw in a different pup thread: Can't we use an eq to get a generic pickup to sound more like what we want? Like, isn't there a way we can tone-match a pickup by using a graphic eq, and kind of "kemper" it? It seems ridiculous that there are a million pickups out there, and yet everyone trips over themselves to buy the newest one. At the very least, I'd think that a new pickup would sound very similar to something that's already in existence. There's a narrow range of what we are all after, so it seems logical that a little tweaking of an EQ/boost could get a regular pickup to sound like the specific one someone wants.



Regular copper wire bobbin+magnet pickups aren't HiFi enough to be used as a bed template for other pickup modulation. It's not impossible, but won't be easy. Lace's Alumitones are better for the job, I've heard Q-Tuners as well and, of course and like @KnightBrolaire said, the CicFy ones...

:::::::::

I don't know about how many of you have already entered custom wound pickup side of things nor how many have experimented with just changing the volume pot value. Both of these approaches change completely the way one looks at pickups. It's like a Stainless Steel refret made professionally and a great setup. It makes any guitar sound the way we want them to sound. The SS refret makes the guitar sound like new every fucking day and even with old strings on it and no matter the dings and dongs the body has, she'll feel new on the fingers and there's where the magic happens isn't it?. It's the same thing with pickups. One doesn't need Merlin's magic touch in order to find the tone one is looking for, just ask a local pickup builder what he has to offer. Talking to a builder is a precious lesson on how to achieve the sounds we're after with the gear we have. I highly recommend it and it won't break the bank account as a custom guitar will.

... and this not to mention the split, parallel and out-of-phase gymnastics one can pull out of more than one bobbin as well as adding tone filters with different caps and resistors...


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## USMarine75

Hollowway said:


> Maybe this is a good place to bring up the thing I saw in a different pup thread: Can't we use an eq to get a generic pickup to sound more like what we want? Like, isn't there a way we can tone-match a pickup by using a graphic eq, and kind of "kemper" it? It seems ridiculous that there are a million pickups out there, and yet everyone trips over themselves to buy the newest one. At the very least, I'd think that a new pickup would sound very similar to something that's already in existence. There's a narrow range of what we are all after, so it seems logical that a little tweaking of an EQ/boost could get a regular pickup to sound like the specific one someone wants.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Hollowway said:


> Maybe this is a good place to bring up the thing I saw in a different pup thread: Can't we use an eq to get a generic pickup to sound more like what we want? Like, isn't there a way we can tone-match a pickup by using a graphic eq, and kind of "kemper" it? It seems ridiculous that there are a million pickups out there, and yet everyone trips over themselves to buy the newest one. At the very least, I'd think that a new pickup would sound very similar to something that's already in existence. There's a narrow range of what we are all after, so it seems logical that a little tweaking of an EQ/boost could get a regular pickup to sound like the specific one someone wants.



Billy Gibbons does this. He loves the sound of his Pearly Gates so much that he has a Graphic EQ in the front of his chain that acts as a ghetto Profiler to make every guitar he owns sound like the Gates. There's different presets for each guitar he uses, and his tech hates to deal with it.


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## Dave Death

I read that Seymour Duncan have jacked up their prices too. Not surprising given that materials and transport prices have been going up across the board, and BKP have had to do a covid-safe restructuring of their workshop. But still any price increase on already expensive pickups is pure ouch from our perspective


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## Kyle Jordan

Hollowway said:


> Maybe this is a good place to bring up the thing I saw in a different pup thread: Can't we use an eq to get a generic pickup to sound more like what we want? Like, isn't there a way we can tone-match a pickup by using a graphic eq, and kind of "kemper" it? It seems ridiculous that there are a million pickups out there, and yet everyone trips over themselves to buy the newest one. At the very least, I'd think that a new pickup would sound very similar to something that's already in existence. There's a narrow range of what we are all after, so it seems logical that a little tweaking of an EQ/boost could get a regular pickup to sound like the specific one someone wants.



I’ve been doing this since the last century. Originally picked up the idea from the old amptone.com site. 

Actives work better than passives in my experience for this. You still add noise when you boost highs (and mids), but less than with the passives I’ve played with. In fact pickups like the EMG S and SA are fairly flat. 

https://guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8989/emg-response-curves

Lots of cool information on that forum. 

(And do you want a VEEERRRY interesting read? Search there for the translation of the German Physicists book about electric guitar.)


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## Matt08642

On the one hand, I'm happy the dude got to release something, he clearly knows how to record great tones. On the other hand, a DiMarzio on Reverb is like $78 USD brand new. Simply can't imagine paying this much for pickups lol


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## TheBolivianSniper

Matt08642 said:


> On the one hand, I'm happy the dude got to release something, he clearly knows how to record great tones. On the other hand, a DiMarzio on Reverb is like $78 USD brand new. Simply can't imagine paying this much for pickups lol



1 silly signature set = 1 kickass Hondo rhoads

no seriously there's one on musicgoround and if someone from here doesn't buy it after my endless posting about mine I'm gonna be disappointed, it even has the Alexi scythe white with black pinstripes paint job


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## Emperoff

Buying Dimarzios and putting A5 magnets on them looks like the only sane option for me right know If I want aftermarket pickups.

What pisses me off the most is that I have one guitar in dire need of a pickup swap (active sized routes), but I refuse to pay 425€ for a BKP set. No fucking way.

I got my Juggernaut 7-String set with soapbar covers for 300€ a couple of years ago, and that felt like too much already for a magnet with wire and screws.


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## Lorcan Ward

Hollowway said:


> Maybe this is a good place to bring up the thing I saw in a different pup thread: Can't we use an eq to get a generic pickup to sound more like what we want? Like, isn't there a way we can tone-match a pickup by using a graphic eq, and kind of "kemper" it? It seems ridiculous that there are a million pickups out there, and yet everyone trips over themselves to buy the newest one. At the very least, I'd think that a new pickup would sound very similar to something that's already in existence. There's a narrow range of what we are all after, so it seems logical that a little tweaking of an EQ/boost could get a regular pickup to sound like the specific one someone wants.



Putting an Eq-Match first thing in the signal chain makes the tone sound very artificial. I’ve tried it a few times to keep the sound of a guitar I’m selling or in the studio plugging into a high end interface and then EQ matching that over the DI I brought in from my interface. Cuts work well but anything that boosts frequencies too much has weird results. EQ marching also sucks the dynamics out for whatever reason. 

EQing out frequencies before your signal chain is a good practice though if you have bloated mids or need less low end and that could make up for a pickup change.


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## Avedas

I see BKP is putting the Japan markup on their pickups before they even get in the country. I wouldn't be surprised to see a set of these go for like $800 here lmao

I haven't listened to the clips yet but the Silo already does everything perfectly for me and more. I do like that cover design a lot though.


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## Phlegethon

Website's description is the usual "blow smoke up as many arses as possible" business. But man those covers look great, I'l give these pickups that.


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## gunch

Hollowway said:


> Maybe this is a good place to bring up the thing I saw in a different pup thread: Can't we use an eq to get a generic pickup to sound more like what we want? Like, isn't there a way we can tone-match a pickup by using a graphic eq, and kind of "kemper" it? It seems ridiculous that there are a million pickups out there, and yet everyone trips over themselves to buy the newest one. At the very least, I'd think that a new pickup would sound very similar to something that's already in existence. There's a narrow range of what we are all after, so it seems logical that a little tweaking of an EQ/boost could get a regular pickup to sound like the specific one someone wants.



Boutique pickup makers hate him!! Spend 35 bucks and learn this weird trick to good tone!!


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## Flappydoodle

Dave Death said:


> I read that Seymour Duncan have jacked up their prices too. Not surprising given that materials and transport prices have been going up across the board, and BKP have had to do a covid-safe restructuring of their workshop. But still any price increase on already expensive pickups is pure ouch from our perspective



I'm deeply sceptical that the price rises as "justified", to be honest

Materials are literally cheap plastic, magnets and wire. It's like £2-3 worth of "stuff".

Shipping absolutely got more expensive. And maybe the main challenge is finding workers, assuming most of them are minimum wage-type jobs.

I'm also not sure what it means by covid-safe restructuring. Or if they did it, it's not a current requirement. There are zero legal restrictions on activities now in the UK. You can go to a football match of 60,000 people, a basement gig, or a nightclub.


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## eaeolian

Hollowway said:


> Maybe this is a good place to bring up the thing I saw in a different pup thread: Can't we use an eq to get a generic pickup to sound more like what we want? Like, isn't there a way we can tone-match a pickup by using a graphic eq, and kind of "kemper" it? It seems ridiculous that there are a million pickups out there, and yet everyone trips over themselves to buy the newest one. At the very least, I'd think that a new pickup would sound very similar to something that's already in existence. There's a narrow range of what we are all after, so it seems logical that a little tweaking of an EQ/boost could get a regular pickup to sound like the specific one someone wants.



Shadow actually messed with this back in the '80s, with an active pickup with adjustable EQ (the adjustments were where the pole pieces would normally be, IIRC.)

Guitarists weren't interested, because by-and-large we are traditional fuckers.


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## Marv Attaxx

Anything above 300 is too much in my books. Maybe it's time to check out those Easter European pickups makers like Fokin or ARB. Hell, a foking Uppercut pickup (active or passive route) costs something like 65 Euros and if it's good enough for Padalka it should be good enough for anyone


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## budda

Emperoff said:


> Buying Dimarzios and putting A5 magnets on them looks like the only sane option for me right know If I want aftermarket pickups.
> 
> What pisses me off the most is that I have one guitar in dire need of a pickup swap (active sized routes), but I refuse to pay 425€ for a BKP set. No fucking way.
> 
> I got my Juggernaut 7-String set with soapbar covers for 300€ a couple of years ago, and that felt like too much already for a magnet with wire and screws.



Vineham pickups.


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## Emperoff

budda said:


> Vineham pickups.



The bane of my existence are active EMG routes. That restricts me to:
- Only two models of Duncans
- Use custom covers, which is more involved and also places your pickups 2mm further from the strings, compromising tone.
- Lundgrens, with the same problem mentioned above, not optimal.
- BKP. Their soapbar covers are 40$ each, and they have correct size but *WRONG *hole allingment, meaning that you can't use them if the cavities are tight.
- Elysian, which doesn't have a lot of variety and I already have them in other guitar.

Only one of my guitars has traditional routes, so yeah... *FUCK YOU EMG*.


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## IwantTacos

Emperoff said:


> The bane of my existence are active EMG routes. That restricts me to:
> - Only two models of Duncans
> - Use custom covers, which is more involved and also places your pickups 2mm further from the strings, compromising tone.
> - Lundgrens, with the same problem mentioned above, not optimal.
> - BKP. Their soapbar covers are 40$ each, and they have correct size but *WRONG *hole allingment, meaning that you can't use them if the cavities are tight.
> - Elysian, which doesn't have a lot of variety and I already have them in other guitar.
> 
> Only one of my guitars has traditional routes, so yeah... *FUCK YOU EMG*.


Just 3D print some covers man.


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## TheBolivianSniper

Emperoff said:


> The bane of my existence are active EMG routes. That restricts me to:
> - Only two models of Duncans
> - Use custom covers, which is more involved and also places your pickups 2mm further from the strings, compromising tone.
> - Lundgrens, with the same problem mentioned above, not optimal.
> - BKP. Their soapbar covers are 40$ each, and they have correct size but *WRONG *hole allingment, meaning that you can't use them if the cavities are tight.
> - Elysian, which doesn't have a lot of variety and I already have them in other guitar.
> 
> Only one of my guitars has traditional routes, so yeah... *FUCK YOU EMG*.



I'm honestly hoping I love the 81-7 and 707 in the stealth I'm buying since I don't feel like going to the trouble of getting soapbars.


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## Emperoff

IwantTacos said:


> Just 3D print some covers man.



Yeah. buying a 3D printer will surely offset the savings 



TheBolivianSniper said:


> I'm honestly hoping I love the 81-7 and 707 in the stealth I'm buying since I don't feel like going to the trouble of getting soapbars.



You can always try the 57/66 set, which sounds awesome. I just got bored of being forced to use stock oversized actives on all my guitars


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## IwantTacos

Emperoff said:


> Yeah. buying a 3D printer will surely offset the savings



there should be print shops everywhere now.


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## TheBolivianSniper

Emperoff said:


> You can always try the 57/66 set, which sounds awesome. I just got bored of being forced to use stock oversized actives on all my guitars



you forget who you're speaking to

however I hate having the same pickups and similar tones between guitars even if they're in such different tunings, I like experimentation


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## Emperoff

TheBolivianSniper said:


> you forget who you're speaking to
> 
> however I hate having the same pickups and similar tones between guitars even if they're in such different tunings, I like experimentation



I can't remember everyone's pickup preferences 

But I hear you, each of my guitars has a different brand of pickups, and I love how different they sound.


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## Kyle Jordan

Emperoff said:


> The bane of my existence are active EMG routes. That restricts me to:
> - Only two models of Duncans
> - Use custom covers, which is more involved and also places your pickups 2mm further from the strings, compromising tone.
> - Lundgrens, with the same problem mentioned above, not optimal.
> - BKP. Their soapbar covers are 40$ each, and they have correct size but *WRONG *hole allingment, meaning that you can't use them if the cavities are tight.
> - Elysian, which doesn't have a lot of variety and I already have them in other guitar.
> 
> Only one of my guitars has traditional routes, so yeah... *FUCK YOU EMG*.



This ended up being the deciding factor for me in skipping the Abasi Fluences in my Aristides. I refuse to be locked in to that damn stupid routing on a guitar. And worse, the soapbar EMGs do not sound like the normal 6 string versions. The humcap size are much closer. Why Fishman chose that to be the default routing on the “modern” 8 string Fluences is baffling. And angering considering that they apparently no longer have any plans to introduce humcap size covered 8 string versions.

And fuck Duncan too for nixing the humcap active 8 strings they used to make.


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## TheBolivianSniper

Emperoff said:


> I can't remember everyone's pickup preferences
> 
> But I hear you, each of my guitars has a different brand of pickups, and I love how different they sound.



I'm a huge fan of the 57, being the first pickups I ever put in a guitar and being my favorite active set over the fishman moderns and by far over any 81 variation. I can and will recommend it to anyone, who wouldn't love the perfect mixture of chunky old school chugs and modern tightness and aggression?

I'd put them in more guitars but I do enjoy passives, plus I don't really like the 66 neck. 

Honestly the more variation the better, I have enormous demands from pickups any more and each one I have meets them all. So far glowing reviews to the 57, fishman modern, BKP ceramic Warpig, Dimarzio X2N, Air Norton, and Liquifire, Duncan Nazgul 7, SSL5, Distortion, and JB. Totally loved the stock Jackson and Burny pickups I had. Didn't like any 81 variation, Dimarzio Crunch Lab, 59 neck, and kind of mixed on the Lace Deathbucker and BL L500XL.


----------



## Hollowway

Flappydoodle said:


> I'm deeply sceptical that the price rises as "justified", to be honest
> 
> Materials are literally cheap plastic, magnets and wire. It's like £2-3 worth of "stuff".
> 
> Shipping absolutely got more expensive. And maybe the main challenge is finding workers, assuming most of them are minimum wage-type jobs.
> 
> I'm also not sure what it means by covid-safe restructuring. Or if they did it, it's not a current requirement. There are zero legal restrictions on activities now in the UK. You can go to a football match of 60,000 people, a basement gig, or a nightclub.



Were they giving a rationale? I generally assume that if someone is increasing prices it's because they feel they can get away with it. I mean, who knows, maybe there is a bit of an increase in overhead, but I'd be shocked if they weren't making a higher profit on each pickup after this.


----------



## Emperoff

Hollowway said:


> Were they giving a rationale? I generally assume that if someone is increasing prices it's because they feel they can get away with it. I mean, who knows, maybe there is a bit of an increase in overhead, but I'd be shocked if they weren't making a higher profit on each pickup after this.



Of course they can get away with it. Can you imagine people acting rationally and stop buying overpriced shit?


----------



## Hollowway

Emperoff said:


> Of course they can get away with it. Can you imagine people acting rationally and stop buying overpriced shit?


Honestly, seeing people throw ridiculous money at guitars right now, they’d be a fool NOT to raise prices.


----------



## IwantTacos

Hollowway said:


> Were they giving a rationale? I generally assume that if someone is increasing prices it's because they feel they can get away with it. I mean, who knows, maybe there is a bit of an increase in overhead, but I'd be shocked if they weren't making a higher profit on each pickup after this.



I mean most people don’t buy 20 guitars. 

so if it’s just one pickup. It’s just like 50-75 bucks more.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Hollowway said:


> Were they giving a rationale? I generally assume that if someone is increasing prices it's because they feel they can get away with it. I mean, who knows, maybe there is a bit of an increase in overhead, but I'd be shocked if they weren't making a higher profit on each pickup after this.



The person I responded to mentioned Covid

And people on BKP forums speculating Brexit, metal prices etc

I don't think BKP has said anything officially though


----------



## Hollowway

IwantTacos said:


> I mean most people don’t buy 20 guitars.


Perhaps we haven’t met: we’re SSO. We aren’t “most people.”


----------



## IwantTacos

Hollowway said:


> Perhaps we haven’t met: we’re SSO. We aren’t “most people.”


I mean I have 12 sets of bkps. If they released 12 new sets at the higher price is probably pass. But I’m only missing two sets I want right now. So for me I’d just grab them.


----------



## ManOnTheEdge

Ignoring the price for a moment (as I can’t afford them yet), I like what I’ve heard so far of the polymath 

I’d asked Nolly (as he’s a huge Andy Timmons fan) how the bridge model compares to the AT1;

“Hey James, that's an interesting and poignant question because Andy Timmons is definitely my god of tone so I can't exactly badmouth his pickup choices! That said, to me the AT-1 is pretty much Dimarzio copying the JB, unsurprisingly since that's what Timmons always used beforehand.

I have had the Polymath next to the AT-1 and JB, and would describe it as more dynamic and lower output, but sharing some of that broad midrange that has made the JB so well-loved (and there's no denying it's an iconic sound). 

That said, the Polymath is tighter in the low end and has a more open/clear top end, with richer overtones. Personally I feel I can play my Polymath guitars through a Timmons-y rig and feel like the vibe is definitely there - even down to the slightly squishy attack.
Hope that helps!”

I’ll probably get a bridge Polymath to go in my HSS project as the above description does tick the right boxes for me


----------



## cmpxchg

Flappydoodle said:


> The person I responded to mentioned Covid
> 
> And people on BKP forums speculating Brexit, metal prices etc
> 
> I don't think BKP has said anything officially though


it's probably a mixture of all of those things. Covid, Brexit, rising shipping/material prices, uncertainty around shipping/material prices and hedging against increases, whatever. then again, if BKP is selling everything they make and they don't want a many month waitlist, might as well raise prices.


----------



## Dave Death

Flappydoodle said:


> And maybe the main challenge is finding workers, assuming most of them are minimum wage-type jobs.



Maybe that is part of the problem. Bare Knuckle employees are skilled labour and paid appropriately and looked after, not fucked over like in big factories.


----------



## ScottThunes1960

Dave Death said:


> Maybe that is part of the problem. Bare Knuckle employees are skilled labour and paid appropriately and looked after, not fucked over like in big factories.



That may well be the case. But even if it wasn’t, the price would be what it is because Periphery is a gross lifestyle brand of VSTs and gear. No one is buying a Nolly™ bridge pickup because it makes them play two or three hundred dollars better than a used Dimarzio AT-1, Duncan JB, or Suhr Aldrich off Reverb would - They’re doing it for the same reason they spent the money to put a spoiler on their Honda.


----------



## ManOnTheEdge

ScottThunes1960 said:


> That may well be the case. But even if it wasn’t, the price would be what it is because Periphery is a gross lifestyle brand of VSTs and gear. No one is buying a Nolly™ bridge pickup because it makes them play two or three hundred dollars better than a used Dimarzio AT-1, Duncan JB, or Suhr Aldrich off Reverb would - They’re doing it for the same reason they spent the money to put a spoiler on their Honda.



I’d disagree on this one (in part, other people’s mileage may vary etc) for me, my favourite pickup is the A-Bomb so a £30 markup on that for a Polymath isn’t that bad if it delivers what I want tonally

On the flip side, the only “singles” I’ve gelled with are Dimarzio Cruisers which aren’t expensive/boutique at all

I do miss when my first BKP set with covers was £180 though but that was about 15 years ago


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

ManOnTheEdge said:


> Ignoring the price for a moment (as I can’t afford them yet), I like what I’ve heard so far of the polymath
> 
> I’d asked Nolly (as he’s a huge Andy Timmons fan) how the bridge model compares to the AT1;
> 
> “Hey James, that's an interesting and poignant question because Andy Timmons is definitely my god of tone so I can't exactly badmouth his pickup choices! That said, to me the AT-1 is pretty much Dimarzio copying the JB, unsurprisingly since that's what Timmons always used beforehand.
> 
> I have had the Polymath next to the AT-1 and JB, and would describe it as more dynamic and lower output, but sharing some of that broad midrange that has made the JB so well-loved (and there's no denying it's an iconic sound).
> 
> That said, the Polymath is tighter in the low end and has a more open/clear top end, with richer overtones. Personally I feel I can play my Polymath guitars through a Timmons-y rig and feel like the vibe is definitely there - even down to the slightly squishy attack.
> Hope that helps!”
> 
> I’ll probably get a bridge Polymath to go in my HSS project as the above description does tick the right boxes for me




So we have the more refined JB (Holy diver), more aggressive JB (nailbomb), and now the BKP version of the Dimarzio JB. 

hmmmm


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBolivianSniper said:


> So we have the more refined JB (Holy diver), more aggressive JB (nailbomb), and now the BKP version of the Dimarzio JB.
> 
> hmmmm


rebel yell is also a JB offshot as well.


----------



## FitRocker33

I think we can all agree that every pickup ever developed after the JB is just a modded JB.

/endofthread


----------



## Dave Death

That's like saying that every amp ever developed after the JCM800 is just a modded JCM800. Kind of true, but not really that interesting.


----------



## Legion

Dave Death said:


> That's like saying that every amp ever developed after the JCM800 is just a modded JCM800. Kind of true, but not really that interesting.


I think he was being ironic...


----------



## angl2k

300 pounds ~~ 352 euro + 19% VAT = 418 euro + shipping that's a hard pass for me.

Seems like BKP is pricing themselves out of the market rofl.


----------



## FitRocker33

If this is the trend BKP is taking with their pricing then best of luck to them, but I’m not paying almost 500 bucks for a set of pickups. 300 bucks a set for something is pushing it already.


----------



## katsumura78

Ordered a covered set, 425 shipped. 6-8 week wait. Yes the price is bordering on silly but I want to hear these in my PRS. Nolly has been killing it in the tone department for years so it is what it is. Most BKP’s I’ve tried have been great (hated the Ragnarok neck pickup) so I’m sure these will be one of their better sets.


----------



## dmlinger

Had to spot check it since I haven't shopped for BKP in a while... all of the artist signature pickups are 24GBP higher than the non-sig models. No doubt good portion, if not all of that is the artist's cut of the sale. Not uncommon, but hard to justify as a consumer. 

Sorry if this was mentioned already...didn't read the whole thread.


----------



## Atefred

I find it interesting to see the amount of outrage at the price for these. They are expensive for sure, but no one seems to bat an eyelid at the price difference in between an FM3 and an HX stomp, which do kind of the same thing, or suggest that the existence of a brand like Mayones or Aristides is ludicrous because you can find well build guitars for significantly less.

Ultimately as long as they give someone the sound and feel they are looking for, and there is a market for them, good for Bare Knuckle. (I would fall in that category, not a pickup expert by any stretch but among the ones I have tried I haven't found any from other brands that got me the sound and feel of aftermaths, so have no problems with the idea of dropping a few hundred quid on new BKP sets).


----------



## ScottThunes1960

Atefred said:


> I find it interesting to see the amount of outrage at the price for these. They are expensive for sure, but no one seems to bat an eyelid at the price difference in between an FM3 and an HX stomp, which do kind of the same thing, or suggest that the existence of a brand like Mayones or Aristides is ludicrous because you can find well build guitars for significantly less.



People are rolling their eyes because a pickup consists of around five US dollars’ worth of parts, no matter where in the world you produce it. Past a certain price point, it becomes obvious that the target market is bald dudes with beards and glasses who will buy the pickups for the sake of making a YouTube video about how awesome they sound through an Axe FX III patch that makes every guitar sound the same.


----------



## LostTheTone

angl2k said:


> 300 pounds ~~ 352 euro + 19% VAT = 418 euro + shipping that's a hard pass for me.
> 
> Seems like BKP is pricing themselves out of the market rofl.



I mean they were kinda already pricing themselves out of the market, if we're honest. I'm not going to knock them since they've been reasonably successful, but in a world where you get EMGs and Fishmans for 200ish a set, BKP were already more than 50% above the competition.

I know that the price of everything is going to nudge upwards, but BKP were already selling pickups rings for 25 quid. That's the kind of company they are. Now, their anomaly pickup rings are genuinely quite nice, but fuck man they are just injection moulded plastic.


----------



## noise in my mind

BKP must be very confident in their marketing department...


----------



## MaxOfMetal

They'll sell tons of these. Full stop. 

Y'all acting like there's not a HUGE market for high end gear. Someone buying a $6k ESP Original isn't going to bat an eye dropping the cash for these if they want them.


----------



## profwoot

Seriously, can we be done whining about the price? It's not a difficult concept that companies are going to raise their prices until demand falls roughly in line with what they can comfortably supply, and pretending that the latest prices will eliminate their market as if they haven't put any thought into it makes y'all look really naive.


----------



## j3ps3

katsumura78 said:


> Nolly has been killing it in the tone department for years so it is what it is. Most BKP’s I’ve tried have been great (hated the Ragnarok neck pickup) so I’m sure these will be one of their better sets.



I think Nolly could make any pickup sound great, TBH. Great player and great at mixing. At that point the pickups don't really matter, he'll make them work regardless. That's why he's the face for these pickups. Doesn't mean they're a gateway to superior sound for you


----------



## LostTheTone

profwoot said:


> Seriously, can we be done whining about the price? It's not a difficult concept that companies are going to raise their prices until demand falls roughly in line with what they can comfortably supply, and pretending that the latest prices will eliminate their market as if they haven't put any thought into it makes y'all look really naive.



Obviously supply and demand will apply, but that's not really the discussion. 

We are a pretty broad group of people who are generally willing to spend a lot of money on guitars and guitar accessories. I think it's fair for us to discuss whether we would be willing to pay the list price for these, and to ask who the hell these are actually for if not tone snobs with dollars to burn on guitars. 

For contrast, the fancy DMZ pickups (dark matter, pandemonium, etc) carry a premium price, but a pair will cost you something like £250 or so. That's expensive in the pickup world, but not absurd. That's the same price bracket at the EMG Metalworks stuff.

The Polymath set is presently listed "...from £358". That is just for the 6 string versions, without the fancy covers. If you want 7 string, that is £373. If you want 8 string, that's £414. If you want the fancy covers, they cost £60 more. The fancy 6 string versions run to £418 at a minimum. That is over 60% more than the competition's most expensive stuff. It's more expensive than most custom shop pickups. 

That is an outrageously high price. 

In a world where you can get an Invader or an EMG-81 for like £85... Is that £400 really just jumping out of your wallet? 

And no, it doesn't mean that BKP will go broke or anything. They do their own manufacturing, so they don't have to have thousands of them made just hoping they sell. And it's not like they are perishable; whatever stock they have pre-made can happily sit on a shelf for years until someone buys it. 

But, for a company who were already famously high end, is "even higher still" going to be a good idea? That's the real question. They already had a reputation for being pricey and only arguably worth the money. Even if these pickups are legitimately incredible, it's hard to see how they would ever seem like good value for money.


----------



## CanserDYI

I think we all forgot about the Seymour Duncan (IIRC) silver pickups that were $1000....didn't sound any different to my ear.


----------



## IwantTacos

LostTheTone said:


> I mean they were kinda already pricing themselves out of the market, if we're honest. I'm not going to knock them since they've been reasonably successful, but in a world where you get EMGs and Fishmans for 200ish a set, BKP were already more than 50% above the competition.
> 
> I know that the price of everything is going to nudge upwards, but BKP were already selling pickups rings for 25 quid. That's the kind of company they are. Now, their anomaly pickup rings are genuinely quite nice, but fuck man they are just injection moulded plastic.



people are acting like a guitar is more then 100 dollars of wood and metal.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

CanserDYI said:


> I think we all forgot about the Seymour Duncan (IIRC) silver pickups that were $1000....didn't sound any different to my ear.


yeah but those were targeting a very different market from these pickups. Blues lawyers and pro touring musicians in non metal bands were their target audience with those. These new bkps are pretty squarely aimed at progressive metal nerds (since no one else probably knows who the fuck nolly is) which is a market bkp themselves have saturated pretty hard already.


----------



## IwantTacos

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah but those were targeting a very different market from these pickups. Blues lawyers and pro touring musicians in non metal bands were their target audience with those. These new bkps are pretty squarely aimed at progressive metal nerds (since no one else probably knows who the fuck nolly is) which is a market bkp themselves have saturated pretty hard already.



They only make things that are ordered. It’s not like they are gonna go broke making a bunch of these that won’t sell.


----------



## Xaeldaren

KnightBrolaire said:


> yeah but those were targeting a very different market from these pickups. Blues lawyers and pro touring musicians in non metal bands were their target audience with those.5 These new bkps are pretty squarely aimed at progressive metal nerds (since no one else probably knows who the fuck nolly is) which is a market bkp themselves have saturated pretty hard already.



Hit the nail on the head there. I have two sets of BKPs, and when I was ordering the last set there was a price increase. They were happy to sell me them at the previous price since I was just waiting to be paid to get them, but even at that point it was expensive. I can't justify them at these prices, unless in a custom instrument like Aristides that has a minimal up charge.


----------



## profwoot

LostTheTone said:


> I think it's fair for us to discuss whether we would be willing to pay the list price for these, and to ask who the hell these are actually for if not tone snobs with dollars to burn on guitars.



It seems you've already solved it. BKP wants to sell pickups to people who care a lot about tone, really like BKP's products, and don't mind spending lots of money on it. What is the mystery exactly? That only some of the people on this forum want their new product? How much exactly did that proportion drop with the latest price increase, and how do you know it's more than BKP's expectations based on a ton of actual data to work from, and taking into account the similar price increases across the entire industry? 

It may very well be that DMZ pickups are just as good for a lower price, and if so I hope they are able to ramp up their production and marketing to the point that anyone has ever heard of them or knows anybody who uses their products. Doing so costs money, of course, so best case scenario has them eventually getting to where BKP is now so they too can get shat on by forum dwellers.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

profwoot said:


> It seems you've already solved it. BKP wants to sell pickups to people who care a lot about tone, really like BKP's products, and don't mind spending lots of money on it. What is the mystery exactly? That only some of the people on this forum want their new product? How much exactly did that proportion drop with the latest price increase, and how do you know it's more than BKP's expectations based on a ton of actual data to work from, and taking into account the similar price increases across the entire industry?
> 
> It may very well be that DMZ pickups are just as good for a lower price, and if so I hope they are able to ramp up their production and marketing to the point that anyone has ever heard of them or knows anybody who uses their products. Doing so costs money, of course, so best case scenario has them eventually getting to where BKP is now so they too can get shat on by forum dwellers.


bro do you even use this forum, people on here shit on other pickup brands like fishman, emg, duncan and dmz all the time. Or rather specific models.


----------



## Jonathan20022

KnightBrolaire said:


> bro do you even use this forum, people on here shit on other pickup brands like fishman, emg, duncan and dmz all the time. Or rather specific models.



If only people played as much as they typed...

I can't even reasonably pay used prices for BKPs, been looking for a set of Ceramic Blackhawks/Warpigs for ages. When someone lists a pair up for >250 I'll nab them, but yeah not paying a premium for them. Idk why BKP has so much focus anyways, there are so many pickup makers out there and at incredible prices. Even if you stick with mainstream brands like Dimazrio, they always make quality stuff in fact I've custom ordered 2 pairs of Dimarzios in the last 2 - 3 years and they haven't left the guitars they were put into.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

IwantTacos said:


> people are acting like a guitar is more then 100 dollars of wood and metal.



For real.


----------



## ScottThunes1960

KnightBrolaire said:


> These new bkps are pretty squarely aimed at progressive metal nerds (since no one else probably knows who the fuck nolly is) which is a market bkp themselves have saturated pretty hard already.



That’s the headscratcher for me: Someone at BKP is _very_ confident that someone in that niche demographic will double-dip for pickups more expensive than the last BKP set they bought. My guess is they were bumped up a price tier to avoid SKU redundancies. Surely, we’re going to see product-provided Youtubers marketing these with “_The Best Pickups I Ever Tried?_” thumbnails in coming weeks, and I’m very curious to hear if they’re demoed with fewer than five ambient reverbs.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

ScottThunes1960 said:


> That’s the headscratcher for me: Someone at BKP is _very_ confident that someone in that niche demographic will double-dip for pickups more expensive than the last BKP set they bought. My guess is they were bumped up a price tier as a strategy avoid SKU redundancies. Surely, we’re going to see product-provided Youtubers marketing these with “_The Best Pickups I Ever Tried?_” thumbnails in coming weeks, and I’m very curious to hear of they’re demoed with fewer than five ambient reverbs.


I guarantee they chuck a set over to Rabea and the other big channels so us peasants that rankle at spending 400+$ on pickups can ooh and ahh at them. 
I mean they literally have impulses, juggernauts, silos, ragnaroks, aftermaths, painkillers, nailbombs all targeting that same audience. That's more than half of their "contemporary" lineup mostly aimed at djentyboiz. 
Clearly their marketing people know their target audience well, and that they'll keep coming back for more. Shit I mean it worked on me (I've tried all of the aforementioned pickups besides the silos) and I'm not even in their target demographic


----------



## gunch

Jonathan20022 said:


> Idk why BKP has so much focus anyways, there are so many pickup makers out there and at incredible prices.



Djent Nerds that took marketing classes to sell shit to other Djent nerds after they were done with flipped crunch labs


----------



## Jonathan20022

gunch said:


> Djent Nerds that took marketing classes to sell shit to other Djent nerds after they were done with flipped crunch labs



Can't relate, I think I bought some Miracle Mans on here several years ago and then proceeded to just order Bareknuckles in custom guitars or find them used, Aristides charges like $210 for uncovered BKP sets so I've gotten to try my fair share that way. They're good pickups, but so is just about anything else so long as you understand what specs correlate to overall tone/feel, then choose wisely after plenty of research.


----------



## angl2k

LostTheTone said:


> I mean they were kinda already pricing themselves out of the market, if we're honest. I'm not going to knock them since they've been reasonably successful, but in a world where you get EMGs and Fishmans for 200ish a set, BKP were already more than 50% above the competition.
> 
> I know that the price of everything is going to nudge upwards, but BKP were already selling pickups rings for 25 quid. That's the kind of company they are. Now, their anomaly pickup rings are genuinely quite nice, but fuck man they are just injection moulded plastic.



Yes they were always expensive. I have a CS set and a Jug set in a guitar that I have sold.

For my newer purchases I wanted to see the current BKP lineup but then I decided the higher price wasn't worth it for me. Sure a BKP set sounds arguably better/different than EMG or Fishman but the Fishman Fluence were more versatile with the voicings and split options and also cheaper.

I understand that BKP has to keep the shop running but there's heavy competition from EMG and Fishman in the metal demographic. Abasi set, Reyes set, Jim Root set and other upcoming builders.


----------



## Xaeldaren

angl2k said:


> Yes they were always expensive. I have a CS set and a Jug set in a guitar that I have sold.
> 
> For my newer purchases I wanted to see the current BKP lineup but then I decided the higher price wasn't worth it for me. Sure a BKP set sounds arguably better/different than EMG or Fishman but the Fishman Fluence were more versatile with the voicings and split options and also cheaper.
> 
> I understand that BKP has to keep the shop running but there's heavy competition from EMG and Fishman in the metal demographic. Abasi set, Reyes set, Jim Root set and other upcoming builders.



Hell, if we're talking boutique high-end passive sets in the progressive metal market, Lundgren are looking very attractive now.


----------



## Emperoff

I inquired the dealer I bought my BKPs in the past about these. 350€ for a 7-string with soapbar covers. 50€ more than two years ago. Still much better than the 510€ BKP is charging on their store.

Apparently they are way less full in the lows than the Silo set, and the neck pickup is warmer. So these are 100% targeted at the "I only want mids in my tone" Djent crowd. No clue about the output, didn't mention it.


----------



## LostTheTone

Jonathan20022 said:


> If only people played as much as they typed...
> 
> I can't even reasonably pay used prices for BKPs, been looking for a set of Ceramic Blackhawks/Warpigs for ages. When someone lists a pair up for >250 I'll nab them, but yeah not paying a premium for them. Idk why BKP has so much focus anyways, there are so many pickup makers out there and at incredible prices. Even if you stick with mainstream brands like Dimazrio, they always make quality stuff in fact I've custom ordered 2 pairs of Dimarzios in the last 2 - 3 years and they haven't left the guitars they were put into.



Yeah, the reason I remain squarely loyal to SD is because I could go get a Distortion for like 65 quid brand new (in April last year) and it fucking shreds. Its not a perfect pickup, but it's rock solid value for money. 

When I was buying that one (and an Invader) I started mentally referring to the upper price tier at SD and DMZ as "silly names at silly prices" because of the dizzy array of 120 quid sentients and imperiums and dark matters that sound good but were more than I really want to pay. And then I found out about BKP, and while I was sorely tempted to spend the extra to get a bespoke appearance top end pickup, I eventually stopped myself and remembered that 180 for one pickup was absurd. The black chrome metalworks EMG81 I was considering was 125ish and was sexy but expensive. And 65 for a distortion was just... That is a convincingly bargain price.

Even if you are a prog nerd, an 8 string Tosin set is literally half the price of the 8 string Polymaths. Now, I don't know dick about 8 strings, and I only barely know who Animals As Leaders are, but I know that Tosin's set is well regarded and that it's priced appropriately. 

And all of this is a long way around to say that fuuuuuck there are some seriously diminishing returns here. If you can get a very serviceable set of pickups for say 150, and a really great set for 250, how good does something have to be to be worth 400?


----------



## MAJ Meadows SF

IwantTacos said:


> people are acting like a guitar is more then 100 dollars of wood and metal.



This is funny considering being a guy with many VERY expensive guitars and one of my best sounding is a $100 pawn shop Les Paul Custom knock off (I still don’t know WTF it is). The pickups in it are worth more than the guitar (SD JB Black Back, BKP Cold Sweat). It gets me my Jerry Cantrell/Adam Jones fix in spades. 

I’m a tone nerd who will try these at some point, but phew those are pricey. Thank God I have several custom shop Duncans and BKPs laying around to goof off with in the meantime. Frankly, I’d rather keep tweaking my Black Winter winding ventures with SD, and convince MJ to make me a DDJ. The Polymath demos sound exactly like the 1st and 2nd Red Seas Fire albums. I might order a plain-jane black uncovered bridge and throw it in the OG Kramer and see how it does.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Material cost is minor, you effectively pay for someone's time. I can buy a 4A - 5A Quilt/Curly Maple top for just around a hundred bucks, body and neck woods for about the same and then whatever materials and build stuff myself. 

You pay for someone's time and expertise when you order from anyone, that's why you can buy 5 figure guitars and guitars that collectively cost a few hundred bucks. It's kind of a nonsense argument, anything DIY will be a massive cost savings but you need to have the experience and equipment to even attempt to replicate something a professional does. It also means you don't necessarily need the most expensive possible option out there if you're concious of this and are responsible enough to reign your own budget in.

I could totally buy a Hydrospace Majesty right now, but it's still just a near 6 thousand dollar Majesty, do I need it? No, so I can buy something else or elect not to. The existence of high end expensive gear shouldn't bother anyone, so long as an affordable alternative also exists. 

Nolly's personal pickup profile isn't a necessary component to build a sound you enjoy nor is it the only path to it.


----------



## profwoot

Jonathan20022 said:


> Material cost is minor, you effectively pay for someone's time. I can buy a 4A - 5A Quilt/Curly Maple top for just around a hundred bucks, body and neck woods for about the same and then whatever materials and build stuff myself.
> 
> You pay for someone's time and expertise when you order from anyone, that's why you can buy 5 figure guitars and guitars that collectively cost a few hundred bucks. It's kind of a nonsense argument, anything DIY will be a massive cost savings but you need to have the experience and equipment to even attempt to replicate something a professional does. It also means you don't necessarily need the most expensive possible option out there if you're concious of this and are responsible enough to reign your own budget in.
> 
> I could totally buy a Hydrospace Majesty right now, but it's still just a near 6 thousand dollar Majesty, do I need it? No, so I can buy something else or elect not to. The existence of high end expensive gear shouldn't bother anyone, so long as an affordable alternative also exists.
> 
> Nolly's personal pickup profile isn't a necessary component to build a sound you enjoy nor is it the only path to it.



I agree with all this, of course, and had presumed the first 2 grafs to be subtext as folks were attempting to rebut the "pickups are a few dollars worth of magnets and wire" crowd. Because of course the cost of raw goods represents a small fraction of what most any product is worth.

(imagine responding to a query regarding one's favorite guitar manufacturer with a list including a lumber mill and a copper mine).


----------



## Hollowway

profwoot said:


> It seems you've already solved it. BKP wants to sell pickups to people who care a lot about tone, really like BKP's products, and don't mind spending lots of money on it. What is the mystery exactly? That only some of the people on this forum want their new product? How much exactly did that proportion drop with the latest price increase, and how do you know it's more than BKP's expectations based on a ton of actual data to work from, and taking into account the similar price increases across the entire industry?


You must be a lot of fun at parties. I think the point here is that we are discussing A) Why they increased prices so much, and B) whether we, individually will buy one, and C) whether we think lots of people will buy them. I don't think anyone is really straining to figure out the we-sell-pickups-to-make-money idea.

I am a BKP user, and love Nolly, but I would not buy a set of these at this price. I'm personally interested in how many others feel this way, and others' viewpoints on industry-wide price hikes and the global pandemic effect on it all.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

On Facebook and a couple of other guitar forums people are mostly talking about the price increase. It’s not just here.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Hollowway said:


> You must be a lot of fun at parties. I think the point here is that we are discussing A) Why they increased prices so much, and B) whether we, individually will buy one, and C) whether we think lots of people will buy them. I don't think anyone is really straining to figure out the we-sell-pickups-to-make-money idea.
> 
> I am a BKP user, and love Nolly, but I would not buy a set of these at this price. I'm personally interested in how many others feel this way, and others' viewpoints on industry-wide price hikes and the global pandemic effect on it all.



Am I missing something here with prices for the outrage to be applicable? I literally just checked on the Wayback Machine.




They had a 12ish gbp price increase on their base price over the last 4 years, I mean I know they're expensive as is which is why I elect not to order them direct. But why are frequent customers surprised at a 25GBP / $34USD price increase that can easily be handwaved as a pandemic warranted shift in prices that has affected nearly all materials for manufacturers and the delivery of final product as well.

I guess where you lose me is that you are apparently a customer of BKP, have bought them in the past for their already hefty price tag before. If your desire is value in pickups you've effectively chosen to shop at one of the most expensive manufacturers already, you can get a custom wound pickup completely tailored to your needs for the price you've been spending on BKP from several winders.

Idk, how many of you guys have played a set of Dimarzio Imperiums, those *fuck*. I played them and really enjoyed how they sounded for all pickup selector options, so I ordered a pair of nickel covered Imperiums and threw them into the guitar that needed them, cost me literally $178 if I recall. Nolly is great and all, and I really enjoy the music those guys all put out but I'll wait for someone else to throw theirs away for the next trendy pickup and scoop it up for significantly less.


----------



## Hollowway

Jonathan20022 said:


> Am I missing something here with prices for the outrage to be applicable? I literally just checked on the Wayback Machine.
> 
> View attachment 98683
> 
> 
> They had a 12ish gbp price increase on their base price over the last 4 years, I mean I know they're expensive as is which is why I elect not to order them direct. But why are frequent customers surprised at a 25GBP / $34USD price increase that can easily be handwaved as a pandemic warranted shift in prices that has affected nearly all materials for manufacturers and the delivery of final product as well.
> 
> I guess where you lose me is that you are apparently a customer of BKP, have bought them in the past for their already hefty price tag before. If your desire is value in pickups you've effectively chosen to shop at one of the most expensive manufacturers already, you can get a custom wound pickup completely tailored to your needs for the price you've been spending on BKP from several winders.
> 
> Idk, how many of you guys have played a set of Dimarzio Imperiums, those *fuck*. I played them and really enjoyed how they sounded for all pickup selector options, so I ordered a pair of nickel covered Imperiums and threw them into the guitar that needed them, cost me literally $178 if I recall. Nolly is great and all, and I really enjoy the music those guys all put out but I'll wait for someone else to throw theirs away for the next trendy pickup and scoop it up for significantly less.



Well, I haven't done as much research as you have on this, clearly. But, we are talking about the Polymath set. If I buy a basic black 8 string set, that's $470. I don't know what I paid for my Aftermath's in the past, but I know it wasn't that much. You're right that a $34 increase isn't that much. But it's a decent percentage, I think. If my burrito increased $34 I ain't ordering that, either.  

The expression "the straw that broke the camel's back" comes to mind. It's not that the camel didn't have a crap load of straw he was already carrying. And he probably was pissed about all that straw, but he was just able to manage it. But one more straw was too much. Everyone's gotta draw the line somewhere.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Fair enough, it just seemed really minor although I am seeing overall backlash online over the price increase.

It's the same price as any other signature artist BKP set (155gbp per pickup), but I'm just not seeing this major increase in cost a generic covered pickup set runs you 12.50gbp per cover and 25gbp per etched cover or one with a special finish. So trust me, I'm with you on 370gbp (500USD) for a pair of pickups is pretty excessive. But I just find it funny that in context it was running you north of $450USD for any other covered pickup set from them which is equally as ridiculous in my eyes


----------



## lewis

Pickups are starting to take the piss.
Where dooes it end?

So what 10 years from now a set will be $600?


----------



## _MonSTeR_

lewis said:


> Pickups are starting to take the piss.
> Where dooes it end?
> 
> So what 10 years from now a set will be $600?



I think it ends when people stop buying them at the new price level, the same way it is for any luxury item. BKPs will continue to get more expensive as long as the online djent crowd continue to promote them and their followers continue to buy them.

That said , I knew a guy 10 years ago who worked in ‘the city’ who didn’t think he’d had a good night out if he had change from £1000. Cost and value is all relative


----------



## lewis

_MonSTeR_ said:


> I think it ends when people stop buying them at the new price level, the same way it is for any luxury item. BKPs will continue to get more expensive as long as the online djent crowd continue to promote them and their followers continue to buy them.
> 
> That said , I knew a guy 10 years ago who worked in ‘the city’ who didn’t think he’d had a good night out if he had change from £1000. Cost and value is all relative



I will defo start buying used should they(all pickups) go up anymore


----------



## Kyle Jordan

lewis said:


> Pickups are starting to take the piss.
> Where dooes it end?
> 
> So what 10 years from now a set will be $600?



:laughs in Alembic Activators:

But yeah, if the market supports it, prices will just go higher. And I'd say 3-5 years for $600 sets.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

lewis said:


> I will defo start buying used should they(all pickups) go up anymore



And this is realistically the only way that costs will stop increasing. If no one is buy £500 BKPs then manufacturers will realign their products accordingly, or go out of business...

Personally I LOVE the sound of these new Nollybuckers on the demo, but Nolly is a master of modern metal magic and I'd not trust that even if I had his entire rig I'd actually be able to sound like his demos.


----------



## Emperoff

FWIW, BKP hasn't actually increased the prices. When the Silos came out a couple years ago _*they were exactly the same price as these*_, and no one blinked an eye. What has really fucked us over is Brexit, since now we (and dealers) have to pay VAT for all UK imported products, and that's where the 20% price increase comes from.

I guess all the fuss comes from Nolly being more popular and pissing down the broke djent masses.



Lorcan Ward said:


> On Facebook and a couple of other guitar forums people are mostly talking about the price increase. It’s not just here.



Yup. I peeked into their blues lawyers official forum and was surprised to find complaints about the pricing there as well.


----------



## IwantTacos

lewis said:


> I will defo start buying used should they(all pickups) go up anymore



inflation. what is. what does it do. why doesn't a house cost a nickel anymore.


----------



## technomancer

lewis said:


> Pickups are starting to take the piss.
> Where dooes it end?
> 
> So what 10 years from now a set will be $600?



Out of curiosity I spec'ed out a gold set with the polymath etch and with shipping they're coming out to $550 and change TODAY 

I like to try new pickups for fun and Nolly is a great player with a good ear, but screw that noise.


----------



## lewis

technomancer said:


> Out of curiosity I spec'ed out a gold set with the polymath etch and with shipping they're coming out to $550 and change TODAY
> 
> I like to try new pickups for fun and Nolly is a great player with a good ear, but screw that noise.


Oh my god.
That's obscene 

OK, so 10 years time BK are going to be charging $900 lol


----------



## narad

_MonSTeR_ said:


> And this is realistically the only way that costs will stop increasing. If no one is buy £500 BKPs then manufacturers will realign their products accordingly, or go out of business...
> 
> Personally I LOVE the sound of these new Nollybuckers on the demo, but Nolly is a master of modern metal magic and I'd not trust that even if I had his entire rig I'd actually be able to sound like his demos.



Yea, Nolly hasn't sounded bad anytime in any scenario in like the last 10 years, so sounding good here was a no brainer. I like what I hear, but personally when I have bought BKPs they've never wowed me, especially vs WCR, and with the price increase relative to other things on the market those are now a cheaper option weirdly enough. Same could be said for Lundgren.


----------



## technomancer

narad said:


> Yea, Nolly hasn't sounded bad anytime in any scenario in like the last 10 years, so sounding good here was a no brainer. I like what I hear, but personally when I have bought BKPs they've never wowed me, especially vs WCR, and with the price increase relative to other things on the market those are now a cheaper option weirdly enough. Same could be said for Lundgren.



Yeah Arcane, Lundgren, Motor City, and WCR all spring immediately to mind as now being cheaper. I'd love to try a set of Polymaths but not at that price.


----------



## lurè

Nolly can sound good with any pickup, doesn't need an expensive custom set


----------



## Hollowway

Jonathan20022 said:


> Fair enough, it just seemed really minor although I am seeing overall backlash online over the price increase.
> 
> It's the same price as any other signature artist BKP set (155gbp per pickup), but I'm just not seeing this major increase in cost a generic covered pickup set runs you 12.50gbp per cover and 25gbp per etched cover or one with a special finish. So trust me, I'm with you on 370gbp (500USD) for a pair of pickups is pretty excessive. But I just find it funny that in context it was running you north of $450USD for any other covered pickup set from them which is equally as ridiculous in my eyes



Yeah, overall I'm with you. I generally don't swap out pickup sets, as a rule. But, on a couple of builds, when I had to pick something, I chose Aftermath. They weren't a huge cost - likely because the luthier got them at a decent price. But I'm with you on it being egregious even before this price increase. Like I say, though, everyone has a price below which they'll buy it, but above which they will not. I think this increase just crossed the line for many people. Or so it seems.


----------



## Dudley

Emperoff said:


> FWIW, BKP hasn't actually increased the prices. When the Silos came out a couple years ago _*they were exactly the same price as these*_, and no one blinked an eye. What has really fucked us over is Brexit, since now we (and dealers) have to pay VAT for all UK imported products, and that's where the 20% price increase comes from.



There’s definitely been a price increase and the Silo’s did not cost this much upon release. They’re the same price as the Polymaths are today, but they weren’t just a few weeks ago. Standard humbuckers haven’t had a price increase since last year but the signature stuff just has.

I bought a set of Silos just a few months back and they were significantly cheaper - I paid around £310 for a set this summer, the same set today would cost me £373 when I’ve just priced them up, same as the Polymaths. I’m sure there are some reviews on Guitar World and other sites that back up the lower pricing than they are currently, also.

I remember being pissed at myself for not ordering them when they were first released as when I priced them up initially they were around £260 but a few months in to the pandemic there was a price bump across all the humbucker lines.

No doubt Brexit is an absolute shitter, for many reasons, and I’m not going to argue one way or the other as to if the price hike and current cost of a set of BKP’s is outrageous, but in a little over 18 months the end cost to the user for a signature set has gone up by about 50% which is kind of staggering. Not so bad on the non-sig stuff, thankfully, but still noticeable.


----------



## Dudley

P.s. if I’ve totally misremembered then apologies, but I’d swear that the Silo’s were about £135-ish on release, around £5 more than the standard humbuckers, and have since had a double price increase. Up to £150 last year and now sitting at £180.

If I’m wrong though then it’s bizarre that they increased the rest of the line last year, perhaps due to Brexit, but not the Silo until just this last fortnight or so.

Edit - just found a news article confirming they were £139 on release in November 2019, so I’ve imagined the double price increase, but they definitely have only just gone up in price very recently and I don’t know if you could chalk it up to Brexit when the rest of the line got seated around the time that travesty was happening but the Silos and other sig products so much later.


----------



## Emperoff

Dudley said:


> There’s definitely been a price increase and the Silo’s did not cost this much upon release. They’re the same price as the Polymaths are today, but they weren’t just a few weeks ago. Standard humbuckers haven’t had a price increase since last year but the signature stuff just has.



They costed exactly the same at official BKP store. At least in the config I chose (7-string soapbars). I know since I wanted to get a set but COVID stopped all gigs and I passed on it.

Either way, my dealer is charging me 50€ more than two years ago for a BKP set, which is pretty crazy already, but I blame Brexit on that. Funny thing is I can't complain since ordering through BKP store would cost me 150€ more


----------



## Dudley

Emperoff said:


> They costed exactly the same at official BKP store. At least in the config I chose. I know since I wanted to get a set but COVID stopped all gigs and I passed on it.






That’s £310 for an uncovered 7 string set direct from BKP in July versus £372 direct today. Definitely has increased.


----------



## Emperoff

Dudley said:


> View attachment 98704
> 
> 
> That’s £310 for an uncovered 7 string set direct from BKP in July versus £372 direct today. Definitely has increased.



Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. Can't argue against a giant screenshot. Should I join and grab the torches and pitchforks, then? 

Either way, once I get the set I need for a particular guitar I'm done with this brand.


----------



## Dudley

Emperoff said:


> Maybe my memory is playing tricks on me. Can't argue against a giant screenshot
> 
> Should I join and grab the torches and pitchforks, then?



Apologies if the screenshot is huge. I’m on my iPhone, it’s late, it looked alright, I’m lazy… sorry haha.

This is SSO, you’ve gotta keep up with the latest trends and ride that rage bandwagon haha

Either way though, it’s a fuck load of money. I tend to think that if you’re spending big money on a guitar or anything and you have something specific in mind you’re wanting to achieve, be it tone, aesthetics or anything else, then it’s silly to spend money and get 80% of the way there then compromise and regret it or end up forking out more money down the line.

It’s easier and quicker to forget about the extra £100 or so you have to spend to get exactly what you want than it is to make your peace with or try to love something that’s ultimately just not quite right and forever irks you and if a certain BKP is that holy grail tone then so be it. ‘Spend once and spend right’ and all of that.

That being said… it’s getting hard to stomach these prices. I was wanting a set of Mules for my full thickness ESP Eclipse but might just settle for some other PAF copies in gold covers at this point.

Im sure I’ll end up with more BKP’s, as at present they’re not too huge an up-charge on Aristides and included in the fanned fret build prices and that’s my major GAS lately, but I’ll be doing countless more hours of internet browsing and research on other options before pulling the trigger to justify outfitting an existing guitar with a set, especially if it’s a gamble on a set I’ve not tried before. Maybe time to just enjoy the few sets I have for what they are and dive deeper in to Duncan’s and Dimarzio’s.


----------



## Dayn

Phew, and I thought spending like $550 AUD on the Abasi set of Fishmans, exorbitant wait and upcharge aside, was a lot.


----------



## Jonathan20022

Dudley said:


> Apologies if the screenshot is huge. I’m on my iPhone, it’s late, it looked alright, I’m lazy… sorry haha.
> 
> This is SSO, you’ve gotta keep up with the latest trends and ride that rage bandwagon haha
> 
> Either way though, it’s a fuck load of money. I tend to think that if you’re spending big money on a guitar or anything and you have something specific in mind you’re wanting to achieve, be it tone, aesthetics or anything else, then it’s silly to spend money and get 80% of the way there then compromise and regret it or end up forking out more money down the line.
> 
> It’s easier and quicker to forget about the extra £100 or so you have to spend to get exactly what you want than it is to make your peace with or try to love something that’s ultimately just not quite right and forever irks you and if a certain BKP is that holy grail tone then so be it. ‘Spend once and spend right’ and all of that.
> 
> That being said… it’s getting hard to stomach these prices. I was wanting a set of Mules for my full thickness ESP Eclipse but might just settle for some other PAF copies in gold covers at this point.
> 
> Im sure I’ll end up with more BKP’s, as at present they’re not too huge an up-charge on Aristides and included in the fanned fret build prices and that’s my major GAS lately, but I’ll be doing countless more hours of internet browsing and research on other options before pulling the trigger to justify outfitting an existing guitar with a set, especially if it’s a gamble on a set I’ve not tried before. Maybe time to just enjoy the few sets I have for what they are and dive deeper in to Duncan’s and Dimarzio’s.



My biggest gripe is that the latest and greatest marketed BKP is hardly anyone's actual Holy Grail. There are way too many brands out there for anyone to default to one of the most expensive options while hardly trying anything loose on the market.

I would not chance "trying" Nolly's pickups for $400 - 500, part of the cope if I didn't love them would be forcing myself to. And that's a shitty scenario to be in on anything expensive.


----------



## Hollowway

Jonathan20022 said:


> My biggest gripe is that the latest and greatest marketed BKP is hardly anyone's actual Holy Grail. There are way too many brands out there for anyone to default to one of the most expensive options while hardly trying anything loose on the market.
> 
> I would not chance "trying" Nolly's pickups for $400 - 500, part of the cope if I didn't love them would be forcing myself to. And that's a shitty scenario to be in on anything expensive.


Yeah, and pickups can’t fall under the “try before you buy” advice that’s often given when people want to buy a new guitar. There’s really no way to try a pickup if it’s in a completely different guitar. Maybe there will be a good used market for these, but I agree - it’s a lot of money to drop on an experiment.


----------



## lewis

I could buy an aliexpress special worth $150, go and record it with nolly, and it would sound sick asf. As recording production, knowledge and skills increase - the justification of using extortionate boutique pickups decreases.
And that was with the older prices. Price increases makes this gap even bigger.

The last very good studio and engineer I worked with didn't even care what the pickups were because of the faith he had in his own ability to get the recording and mix sounding sick so long as you were a good guitarist on a click. And he's right, his mixes always sounded sick.

Whereas my old bands whole EP was recorded with a dude who was a bareknuckle fan boi. He was so fussy about pickups and guitar sound he made us track the whole record with his own mayones with Blackhawks.

The finished result? Guitar tone sounds shit and his mix was average and lacked low end and power.

Says it all really


----------



## LostTheTone

lewis said:


> I could buy an aliexpress special worth $150, go and record it with nolly, and it would sound sick asf. As recording production, knowledge and skills increase - the justification of using extortionate boutique pickups decreases.
> And that was with the older prices. Price increases makes this gap even bigger.
> 
> The last very good studio and engineer I worked with didn't even care what the pickups were because of the faith he had in his own ability to get the recording and mix sounding sick so long as you were a good guitarist on a click. And he's right, his mixes always sounded sick.
> 
> Whereas my old bands whole EP was recorded with a dude who was a bareknuckle fan boi. He was so fussy about pickups and guitar sound he made us track the whole record with his own mayones with Blackhawks.
> 
> The finished result? Guitar tone sounds shit and his mix was average and lacked low end and power.
> 
> Says it all really



You are completely correct. Pickups do matter to your sound, but a great many pickups (of varying prices) can do a great job.

On a recording the ability to play with settings after the fact is of course a lovely thing... But you can also change parameters during a track, or put individual parts onto new tracks with completely different set-ups. You can re-EQ it for different passages, so even if it starts to flub in the breakdown with your normal rhythm tone, it's just no big deal. Sure, it's nice to get good tone and not have to play around, but the guitars are definitely going to get processed so everything fits in the mix. 

And this is why I keep harping on the value for money argument. I'm not opposed to paying the going rate for what good pickups cost. And I am happy to pay extra to get the pretty special covers and finishes. Looks matter too! But what would a pickup have to offer to be worth nearly double that? Does anyone seriously believe that after a run through your preferred amp sim that there is going to be some real voodoo there that nothing else can touch?


----------



## CanserDYI

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, and pickups can’t fall under the “try before you buy” advice that’s often given when people want to buy a new guitar. There’s really no way to try a pickup if it’s in a completely different guitar. Maybe there will be a good used market for these, but I agree - it’s a lot of money to drop on an experiment.


I always wondered why the industry didn't standardize a plug and play method across all guitars. Seems fucking wild to me that we still solder these things in and ground them to the back of the pots, which is fucking stupid and a hold over from the 50s builders. I don't like EMGs but man, if their system was on every pickup standard with a little clip system or like GFS does with their qwikplug I just think we'd all benefit, AND I think pickup makers would find people will be less hesitant to buy and swap their product into their guitar, as there would be no "permanent" mods, and less risk of making the pickup unusable during installation, and able to be fucking returned if they don't like it. God why are guitar players and companies so fucking adverse to innovation? "Did they do it that way in the 50s? Okay check let's do it"


----------



## Emperoff

CanserDYI said:


> I always wondered why the industry didn't standardize a plug and play method across all guitars. Seems fucking wild to me that we still solder these things in and ground them to the back of the pots, which is fucking stupid and a hold over from the 50s builders. I don't like EMGs but man, if their system was on every pickup standard with a little clip system or like GFS does with their qwikplug I just think we'd all benefit, AND I think pickup makers would find people will be less hesitant to buy and swap their product into their guitar, as there would be no "permanent" mods, and less risk of making the pickup unusable during installation, and able to be fucking returned if they don't like it. God why are guitar players and companies so fucking adverse to innovation? "Did they do it that way in the 50s? Okay check let's do it"



Fucking this. It drives me nuts nobody else has implemented a quick-connect standard like EMG. You can still solder all the remaining electronics if you're anal about signal integrity, but man, being able to swap pickups back and forth is the shit.

I mean, if were much easier to replace pickups (no soldering skills needed), people would buy a hell of a lot more pickups.

But hey, I just came from checking a TGP thread where people said they don't like Victory amps because they're marketed by an afro and a fat guy, so go figure.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Emperoff said:


> Fucking this. It drives me nuts nobody else has implemented a quick-connect standard like EMG. You can still solder all the remaining electronics if you're anal about signal integrity, but man, being able to swap pickups back and forth is the shit.



Just splice it. There's no difference in sound.


----------



## Emperoff

MaxOfMetal said:


> Just splice it. There's no difference in sound.



Meanwhile thousands of people have swapped their EMGs for other models (or even the already existing positions) in less than 5 minutes.


----------



## Jonathan20022

CanserDYI said:


> I always wondered why the industry didn't standardize a plug and play method across all guitars. Seems fucking wild to me that we still solder these things in and ground them to the back of the pots, which is fucking stupid and a hold over from the 50s builders. I don't like EMGs but man, if their system was on every pickup standard with a little clip system or like GFS does with their qwikplug I just think we'd all benefit, AND I think pickup makers would find people will be less hesitant to buy and swap their product into their guitar, as there would be no "permanent" mods, and less risk of making the pickup unusable during installation, and able to be fucking returned if they don't like it. God why are guitar players and companies so fucking adverse to innovation? "Did they do it that way in the 50s? Okay check let's do it"





Emperoff said:


> Fucking this. It drives me nuts nobody else has implemented a quick-connect standard like EMG. You can still solder all the remaining electronics if you're anal about signal integrity, but man, being able to swap pickups back and forth is the shit.
> 
> I mean, if were much easier to replace pickups (no soldering skills needed), people would buy a hell of a lot more pickups.
> 
> But hey, I just came from checking a TGP thread where people said they don't like Victory amps because they're marketed by an afro and a fat guy, so go figure.



https://www.seymourduncan.com/single-product/liberator-potentiometer

It's on the market and several people have made their own take on it, it's not widely adopted or attempted because the industry is a conservative one and heavily populated by traditionalists that make up a majority of the market share.

I'm totally fine with soldering because that's just a skill in general that people should have. In terms of a quick connect system in a guitar though, not sure how much I'd care for that. I recently bought a pair of fishman sets to try in one of my 060's. I guess the system made the swap easier between the 3, but I just ended up finding the one I liked best and now that's in the guitar permanently. 

If you plan on swapping your pickups every other string change or something you might get more mileage out of it, but unless you're a youtube reviewer or something where you're consantly swapping pickups I don't see a use case. That's just because it's not standardized, if we had a cross brand quick connect system that'd be rad for sure.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Emperoff said:


> Meanwhile thousands of people have swapped their EMGs for other models (or even the already existing positions) in less than 5 minutes.



You do know what wire splicing is right? If it takes five minutes you're doing it wrong. 

The big manufacturers are never going to adopt a solder-free standard for passives. Ever. The only reason that SD and now Fluence use the same connector as EMG is because they're marketing especially as EMG replacements. 

Heck, they won't even use the same mounting legs.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

So we all agree, we all want to sound like Nolly, we just don’t want to pay to sound like Nolly, because Nolly always sounds great, but we might not...


----------



## Emperoff

MaxOfMetal said:


> You do know what wire splicing is right? If it takes five minutes you're doing it wrong.
> 
> The big manufacturers are never going to adopt a solder-free standard for passives. Ever. The only reason that SD and now Fluence use the same connector as EMG is because they're marketing especially as EMG replacements.
> 
> Heck, they won't even use the same mounting legs.



I know they won't. Guitar market is completely stagnant due to people refusing any kind of innovation.


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Emperoff said:


> Meanwhile thousands of people have swapped their EMGs for other models (or even the already existing positions) in less than 5 minutes.



Yea the hardest part about swapping the last sets of EMG's I got were getting the pickup height body mount right since I am an idiot.


----------



## Zado

lewis said:


> I could buy an aliexpress special worth $150, go and record it with nolly, and it would sound sick asf. As recording production, knowledge and skills increase - the justification of using extortionate boutique pickups decreases.
> And that was with the older prices. Price increases makes this gap even bigger.
> 
> The last very good studio and engineer I worked with didn't even care what the pickups were because of the faith he had in his own ability to get the recording and mix sounding sick so long as you were a good guitarist on a click. And he's right, his mixes always sounded sick.
> 
> Whereas my old bands whole EP was recorded with a dude who was a bareknuckle fan boi. He was so fussy about pickups and guitar sound he made us track the whole record with his own mayones with Blackhawks.
> 
> The finished result? Guitar tone sounds shit and his mix was average and lacked low end and power.
> 
> Says it all really



And it's not just a recording thing. When you play live, small to medium gigs, using a good amount of overdrive/distortion, you should realize the new 500€ pickup set you've craved so much after becomes much less than relevant compared to other parts of your setup, mainly your amp, your cab and where the mic is positioned. Sure, there will be some EQ and output differences, but I'm positive not many in the audience will think "damn yeah, he's definitely not using some cheap ass Duncans".


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Emperoff said:


> I know they won't. Guitar market is completely stagnant due to people refusing any kind of innovation.



It's not innovation lacking, it's cooperation.


----------



## LostTheTone

_MonSTeR_ said:


> So we all agree, we all want to sound like Nolly, we just don’t want to pay to sound like Nolly, because Nolly always sounds great, but we might not...



It took us 8 pages to get there, but yeah I think you've cracked it.

Now... Who the actual fuck is Nolly anyway? Like, for real, I never heard this dudes name before this thread. I gather he is a guitarist of somesort, and he apparently has good tone?


----------



## MaxOfMetal

LostTheTone said:


> It took us 8 pages to get there, but yeah I think you've cracked it.
> 
> Now... Who the actual fuck is Nolly anyway? Like, for real, I never heard this dudes name before this thread. I gather he is a guitarist of somesort, and he apparently has good tone?



For serious?


----------



## gunch

LostTheTone said:


> It took us 8 pages to get there, but yeah I think you've cracked it.
> 
> Now... Who the actual fuck is Nolly anyway? Like, for real, I never heard this dudes name before this thread. I gather he is a guitarist of somesort, and he apparently has good tone?



He (Adam Getgood) had a band called Red Seas Fire before joining Periphery as their bassist from 2012-2018 but I guess most people on here discovered him through his Sikth cover videos on Youtube when Sikth was the hot new shizz. On the side he's educated himself in sound engineering and made drum sound packs (GGD = Getgood Drums) He has also worked with Zilla Cabs and BKP fairly closely (I think). He was also a early adopter (hype guy) for Blackmachine guitars. His pickups are called the Polymath because he's some sort of self styled Renaissance man of modern metal, I guess.  I'm just some moron on a guitar forum.


----------



## FitRocker33

Damn I totally forgot about Red Seas Fire lol

thanks for reminding me for next time I hit Spotify


----------



## LostTheTone

MaxOfMetal said:


> For serious?



Yes, for reals. 

I am one of those guys who doesn't really listen to new music I'm not involved with making. And honestly I only listen to my band because I have to rehearse.

If it makes you feel better I genuinely hadn't heard of Tosin Abassi until I started hanging out here either, and again only because he has pickups with his name on. So... Successful marketing I guess.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

LostTheTone said:


> Yes, for reals.
> 
> I am one of those guys who doesn't really listen to new music I'm not involved with making. And honestly I only listen to my band because I have to rehearse.
> 
> If it makes you feel better I genuinely hadn't heard of Tosin Abassi until I started hanging out here either, and again only because he has pickups with his name on. So... Successful marketing I guess.



I guess I just assumed you listened to "djent" given your user title under your username. 

It's not even a new thing. That guy has been hawking gear for over a decade now. He's vintage djent at this point.


----------



## LostTheTone

MaxOfMetal said:


> I guess I just assumed you listened to "djent" given your user title under your username.
> 
> It's not even a new thing. That guy has been hawking gear for over a decade now. He's vintage djent at this point.



Nah man, I'm just a sucker for a pun.


----------



## Zado

_MonSTeR_ said:


> we all want to sound like Nolly,


Like who?


----------



## Edika

CanserDYI said:


> I always wondered why the industry didn't standardize a plug and play method across all guitars. Seems fucking wild to me that we still solder these things in and ground them to the back of the pots, which is fucking stupid and a hold over from the 50s builders. I don't like EMGs but man, if their system was on every pickup standard with a little clip system or like GFS does with their qwikplug I just think we'd all benefit, AND I think pickup makers would find people will be less hesitant to buy and swap their product into their guitar, as there would be no "permanent" mods, and less risk of making the pickup unusable during installation, and able to be fucking returned if they don't like it. God why are guitar players and companies so fucking adverse to innovation? "Did they do it that way in the 50s? Okay check let's do it"



Gibson has their PCB electronic boards that you can quick connect all their pickups that have their quick connect plugs. Swapping at least Gibson pickups is easy for that. But then you have Gibson dudes claiming that those sound different than solder wired electronics plus the pickups do not have the braiding outside blah blah blah!

Aside from pickup manufacturers not adhering to a single standard, aside from 50 vs 52 mm spaced pickups or some times even 48.6 mm pickups, you have all the guitar users being anal about things like that.


----------



## IwantTacos

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's not innovation lacking, it's cooperation.



anyone could rig up a solder less rig with like 5 dollars worth of parts from McMaster and Carr and a crimper. 

no one ever does this because no one is actually swapping 30 pairs of pickups between all of their guitars.

hell I'll teach someone how to do it. and then I'll wait like 10 years for them to actually do it.


----------



## Jonathan20022

IwantTacos said:


> anyone could rig up a solder less rig with like 5 dollars worth of parts from McMaster and Carr and a crimper.
> 
> no one ever does this because no one is actually swapping 30 pairs of pickups between all of their guitars.
> 
> hell I'll teach someone how to do it. and then I'll wait like 10 years for them to actually do it.



He speaks the truth.


----------



## thebeesknees22

MaxOfMetal said:


> I guess I just assumed you listened to "djent" given your user title under your username.
> 
> It's not even a new thing. That guy has been hawking gear for over a decade now. He's vintage djent at this point.



is djent.....is djent... Oldies now? 

(ー_ーゞ


----------



## KnightBrolaire

thebeesknees22 said:


> is djent.....is djent... Oldies now?
> 
> (ー_ーゞ


considering meshuggah has been doing it for like 30 years at this point then yeah


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

thebeesknees22 said:


> is djent.....is djent... Oldies now?
> 
> (ー_ーゞ



Couple of years and you'll hear Periphery, Vildhjarta, Textures, AAL, and Hacktivist on Classic Rock stations.


----------



## thebeesknees22

hahaha yeah haha


----------



## FitRocker33

Honestly I’ll be glad when the downtuned 8 string open string chugga chugga trend dies off because it’s gotten really uninteresting and fatiguing. 
I literally went full circle back to playing the heavy stuff in E standard and I’m enjoying it. E standard can still bring the Brutus if the riff is done right


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

True about the EMGs, I like how you can switch them around and the installation is almost like a motherboard on a computer with the plugs and pins and everything. Not totally solderless though, still had to solder them to the jack, which sucked. Cool that the cables are fully replaceable too.


----------



## lewis

AwakenTheSkies said:


> True about the EMGs, I like how you can switch them around and the installation is almost like a motherboard on a computer with the plugs and pins and everything. Not totally solderless though, still had to solder them to the jack, which sucked. Cool that the cables are fully replaceable too.


When did you buy these emgs? Every set I've bought in the last 10 years have come with a solderless jack


----------



## AwakenTheSkies

lewis said:


> When did you buy these emgs? Every set I've bought in the last 10 years have come with a solderless jack



2019...But you're right, you made me remember. It did come with a solderless jack, it just didn't fit in my guitar. I had to use one of those longer jacks.


----------



## lewis

AwakenTheSkies said:


> 2019...But you're right, you made me remember. It did come with a solderless jack, it just didn't fit in my guitar. I had to use one of those longer jacks.


Ah the barrel ones.
Yeah. Although I found a eBay shop who sells pre wired barrel Jack's with the emg cables and clips, so I got one of those and still went soderless haha


----------



## Emperoff

I'm fine with soldered pots and switches. It's something you usually only change if it fails. None of my EMG sets have had the solderless kits, since I usually buy them used and use the electronics that come with the guitar.

But that quick connect cable is a godly thing.


----------



## CanserDYI

I can solder a pickup in in a few seconds, the ease of doing something when you're prepared isn't the case here.

Also, I find it weird that like one of the biggest "voices" your guitar has, you kinda have to shoot in the dark and try and flip and rinse and repeat until you find one you like, seems odd at how much of a crapshoot we turned pickups into, as like I've said before if they all came with a standardized plug, just like we standardized 1/4 inch ins and XLR and USB, it'd be much less intimidating(regardless of the ease of installation, the friction is what stops people from doing that).


----------



## soul_lip_mike

Their kits come with jacks now too.


----------



## Hollowway

The obfuscation actually benefits companies making pickups. I mean, there aren’t THAT many variables to tweak in pickup designs. We’re basically only changing magnet types and number of windings. There are other variables, but the average humbuckrr manufacturer isn’t tweaking anything else. So consequently, we have a narrow range of differences between pickups, and we are instead buying them on subjective marketing words. I mean, in computers, and other technology, there are advancements that make each new product objectively better than the old ones. But for pickups, they’re not better, just slightly different. Yet we all trip over ourselves to get the newest one. Like, you’d never see us all say, “Nah, I’ll pass on these Polymaths, because the Nailbomb is the best thing they’ve had.” We’re just a weird bunch of people who are on the hunt for any excuse to drop money on stuff.


----------



## Zado

Hollowway said:


> We’re just a weird bunch of people who are on the hunt for any excuse to drop money on stuff.


This. I'm not into recording music in my room with loads of laptops and stuff, but if you're into gigging and the point really was making music, a DSL and a sub 1k guitar is really everything you need.


----------



## Hollowway

Zado said:


> This. I'm not into recording music in my room with loads of laptops and stuff, but if you're into gigging and the point really was making music, a DSL and a sub 1k guitar is really everything you need.


Yeah, and not to sound like a boomer, but EVH made amazing music with far less equipment than most of us have.  And he was one of the original mad scientist/gear heads out there.


----------



## Avedas

Yeezus, I checked my Silo order (6 string set, brushed nickel covers) on July 13, 2020. Price: 285.79 GBP

Putting the exact same order in the form today: 341.50 GBP

That's a huge increase.


----------



## lewis

Avedas said:


> Yeezus, I checked my Silo order (6 string set, brushed nickel covers) on July 13, 2020. Price: 285.79 GBP
> 
> Putting the exact same order in the form today: 341.50 GBP
> 
> That's a huge increase.



It's disgusting. I just bought a whole budget flying V that happened to be great for £130 new incl shipping. How is pickups being worth 3 times what entire guitars are being sold for justified? 
If I buy two EMGs for that V that's £275 total spend and I'm ready to slay some metal with £66 left over which would buy me a cool OD like a Boss SD1 and probably new pack of strings before I run out of cash.

So really the choice is - 2 Bareknckle pickups
Or
A guitar, 2 EMGs, A Boost pedal and a pack of strings


----------



## Demiurge

It seemed like when this board (and I presume others, too) started filling up with "HELP! What BKP sounds like ______?" threads, showing the desire for the brand preceded the desire for the product, the company knew they could name their price.


----------



## Richter

Not a Nolly fan and I guess it makes sense marketing wise but I can't shake this feeling that BKP are really parodying themselves with those. Big artist name + the lows are huge but tight, the mids are roaring but defined and the highs present but not ice picky + gamer etching + oh it's out best pickup ever + ridiculous price.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Hollowway said:


> The obfuscation actually benefits companies making pickups. I mean, there aren’t THAT many variables to tweak in pickup designs. We’re basically only changing magnet types and number of windings. There are other variables, but the average humbuckrr manufacturer isn’t tweaking anything else. So consequently, we have a narrow range of differences between pickups, and we are instead buying them on subjective marketing words. I mean, in computers, and other technology, there are advancements that make each new product objectively better than the old ones. But for pickups, they’re not better, just slightly different. Yet we all trip over ourselves to get the newest one. Like, you’d never see us all say, “Nah, I’ll pass on these Polymaths, because the Nailbomb is the best thing they’ve had.” We’re just a weird bunch of people who are on the hunt for any excuse to drop money on stuff.



Yeah, Nolly posted on the BKP forum, but it's like how they mixed these two different magnets and used whatever wire type to blend the tones etc.

End of the day, it's magnets and wire which are dirt cheap. The rest is just marketing.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Flappydoodle said:


> End of the day, it's magnets and wire which are dirt cheap.



Everyone keeps sayings this like it's some "gotcha" when a significant number of people in this thread can barely setup a guitar, let alone actually make something with their hands and tools. 

Butchers and surgeons both cut critters open, knives and scalpals are cheap, have fun with that hernia surgery.


----------



## lewis

Demiurge said:


> It seemed like when this board (and I presume others, too) started filling up with "HELP! What BKP sounds like ______?" threads, showing the desire for the brand preceded the desire for the product, the company knew they could name their price.


Even If that were true (it's never right to blame the consumer as justification of criminal prices from companies) I've never contributed towards what you're claiming.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> Even If that were true (it's never right to blame the consumer as justification of criminal prices from companies) I've never contributed towards what you're claiming.


----------



## lewis

MaxOfMetal said:


> Everyone keeps sayings this like it's some "gotcha" *when a significant number of people in this thread can barely setup a guitar, let alone actually make something with their hands and tools. *
> 
> Butchers and surgeons both cut critters open, knives and scalpals are cheap, have fun with that hernia surgery.



Ah right. Know us all personally then? 
You bugged my phones or something ? 

Baseless statements not using an ounce of evidence. Be like me suggesting not a single mod here is an musician


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> Ah right. Know us all personally then?
> You bugged my phones or something ?
> 
> Baseless statements not using an ounce of evidence. Be like me suggesting not a single mod here is an musician



You can't solder. Good luck making a pickup.


----------



## Demiurge

lewis said:


> Even If that were true (it's never right to blame the consumer as justification of criminal prices from companies) I've never contributed towards what you're claiming.



Huh? Never said you had. I don't blame consumers in general, but I blame the crazy hype cultivated around certain products.


----------



## lewis

MaxOfMetal said:


> You can't solder. Good luck making a pickup.


Ahh moving the goalposts. 
So it's gone from people in here can't setup their guitars to now can't solder ?
Which I had to do not so long ago to extend cables and it worked fine.

Hilarious attempt at making it personal because I dug you out


----------



## MaxOfMetal

lewis said:


> Ahh moving the goalposts.
> So it's gone from people in here can't setup their guitars to now can't solder ?
> Which I had to do not so long ago to extend cables and it worked fine.
> 
> Hilarious attempt at making it personal because I dug you out



I mean, I've literally had days long PM exchanges helping folks here setup or fix their gear. I'm not assuming, it's first hand knowledge. 

You literally cried last time I recommended you solder something. That is also first hand. 

But if you actually read and processed what I wrote you might seem less like a crazy person. 

Or...you know...just keep being a goob.


----------



## IwantTacos

all food is just food. therefore it's all the same.

all chefs and restaurants are scams.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

IwantTacos said:


> all food is just food. therefore it's all the same.
> 
> all chefs and restaurants are scams.



Yeah, flour is cheap as fuck.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

lewis said:


> It's disgusting. I just bought a whole budget flying V that happened to be great for £130 new incl shipping. How is pickups being worth 3 times what entire guitars are being sold for justified?



It’s justified by the fact that rich people will buy them and poor people will aspire to them.

This is the extravagant end of a completely non essential luxury item. It’s up there with l0uis Vuitt0n luggage, Christian Louboutin shoes and Ferrari cars. Hell, its only one step away from Rolls Royce branded umbrellas that come free with a half million dollar car sold to sheiks in the Middle East where it never rains... We’re not talking about bread or potatoes, these pickups are verging on being as niche a product as you can buy, designer electric guitar pickups specifically aimed at internet djentbois, marketed by a guy who isn’t even in the band that made him famous anymore


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

_MonSTeR_ said:


> It’s justified by the fact that rich people will buy them and poor people will aspire to them.
> 
> This is the extravagant end of a completely non essential luxury item. It’s up there with l0uis Vuitt0n luggage, Christian Louboutin shoes and Ferrari cars. Hell, its only one step away from Rolls Royce branded umbrellas that come free with a half million dollar car sold to sheiks in the Middle East where it never rains... We’re not talking about bread or potatoes, these pickups are verging on being as niche a product as you can buy, designer electric guitar pickups specifically aimed at internet djentbois, marketed by a guy who isn’t even in the band that made him famous anymore


If having $500 worth of discretionary income is the dividing line between rich and poor, I guess I'm moving up in the world!!!


----------



## CanserDYI

MaxOfMetal said:


> Yeah, flour is cheap as fuck.


Anyone else find it insane that we still package flour and shit in a paper bag? My chicken got triple bagged in its packaging, overkill, yet everytime you pickup a flour bag it spills and dusts everywhere...boggles my mind.


----------



## _MonSTeR_

TheInvisibleHand said:


> If having $500 worth of discretionary income is the dividing line between rich and poor, I guess I'm moving up in the world!!!



Welcome to the Illuminati


----------



## Tree

ITT:

Raw materials are cheap therefore, everything should be cheap.

*DOWN WITH CAPITALISM! 

*


----------



## Tree

CanserDYI said:


> Anyone else find it insane that we still package flour and shit in a paper bag? My chicken got triple bagged in its packaging, overkill, yet everytime you pickup a flour bag it spills and dusts everywhere...boggles my mind.



I fucking hate flour. I can't stand touching it and the bags are always coated. 

I don't know 

Fuck flour.


----------



## CanserDYI

Tree said:


> ITT:
> 
> Raw materials are cheap therefore, everything should be cheap.
> 
> *DOWN WITH CAPITALISM!
> 
> *


Not to derail thread, but this. We have enough resources and materials and land to make everyone on the planet rich, fat, and happy, the only thing thats stopping that is "but thats not fair!"

SMASH CAPITALISM.


----------



## TheInvisibleHand

CanserDYI said:


> Not to derail thread, but this. We have enough resources and materials and land to make everyone on the planet rich, fat, and happy, the only thing thats stopping that is "but thats not fair!"
> 
> SMASH CAPITALISM.



As my professors liked to say "its the best of a bunch of bad systems". 

Smash it, sure. But find a historical example of anything with a successful alternative.


----------



## CanserDYI

TheInvisibleHand said:


> As my professors liked to say "its the best of a bunch of bad systems".
> 
> Smash it, sure. But find a historical example of anything with a successful alternative.


..successful alternatives? How would we have ever even given it a fair shot seeing as we've been in a capitalist mindset for centuries and centuries.

Everyone has to be on board, or it will fail, and fall back to the evils and greeds of capitalism.

But this is an argument for a different day, cheers!


----------



## 0rimus

If I wanted to drop $500 ish whatever the fuck dollars to improve my music...

Cocaine. Yeah, gotta be cocaine. Maybe hookers too. Sick facial tattoo.


----------



## Hollowway

Sooooo … anyone order a set yet?


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Hollowway said:


> Sooooo … anyone order a set yet?


you first


----------



## gunch

I will and put them in a GIO


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

gunch said:


> I will and put them in a GIO



I lose my shit with people buying bare knuckles for their JS32 dinky into an Orange dark terror 

Like I use plugins yeah but I also do a lot with DI, I'll hear the difference 

tf are pickups gonna do in an already trash guitar


----------



## KnightBrolaire

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I lose my shit with people buying bare knuckles for their JS32 dinky into an Orange dark terror
> 
> Like I use plugins yeah but I also do a lot with DI, I'll hear the difference
> 
> tf are pickups gonna do in an already trash guitar


*cackles while looking at his 300$ PRS Mushok he's put thousands of dollars of pickups into*


----------



## TheBolivianSniper

KnightBrolaire said:


> *cackles while looking at his 300$ PRS Mushok he's put thousands of dollars of pickups into*



*ashamed Hondo noises*


----------



## Hollowway

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I lose my shit with people buying bare knuckles for their JS32 dinky into an Orange dark terror
> 
> Like I use plugins yeah but I also do a lot with DI, I'll hear the difference
> 
> tf are pickups gonna do in an already trash guitar


You should see the wheels on their 2001 Civic!


----------



## lewis

Hollowway said:


> You should see the wheels on their 2001 Civic!



I bet its sweet. JDM boiiii


----------



## _MonSTeR_

TheBolivianSniper said:


> I lose my shit with people buying bare knuckles for their JS32 dinky into an Orange dark terror
> 
> Like I use plugins yeah but I also do a lot with DI, I'll hear the difference
> 
> tf are pickups gonna do in an already trash guitar



Well, considering that trash guitars usually have trash pickups amongst the other trash hardware, whilst they won’t affect tuning stability or action height, a set of fantastic pickups will probably work wonders on the tone...


----------



## bulb

Trash guitar with great pickups will usually sound better than a great guitar with trash pickups


----------



## Lorcan Ward

CanserDYI said:


> Anyone else find it insane that we still package flour and shit in a paper bag? My chicken got triple bagged in its packaging, overkill, yet everytime you pickup a flour bag it spills and dusts everywhere...boggles my mind.



Especially since flour contains shit and a lot of potentially harmful bacteria so handling flour without washing your hands and surfaces afterwards could make you very sick but lets package cooked bread and fruit in layers of plastic : /


----------



## Emperoff

Flour, capitalism and personal attacks. This thread sure went places


----------



## Flappydoodle

MaxOfMetal said:


> Everyone keeps sayings this like it's some "gotcha" when a significant number of people in this thread can barely setup a guitar, let alone actually make something with their hands and tools.
> 
> Butchers and surgeons both cut critters open, knives and scalpals are cheap, have fun with that hernia surgery.



No, I didn't say it as some sort of gotcha. My point is that the base material is not explaining even a tiny proportion of the cost, or the price hikes. On the BKP forum people are speculating about rising costs of the metal wires etc.

While comparing a guitar pickup to performing surgery is obviously ridiculous, there is a certain amount of expertise, skill, cost and overhead involved in designing and making a guitar pickup. But charging £200 is either placing a HUGE value on the intellectual property/secret sauce - or, it's simply a price determined by marketing that has an enormous margin built in. I posit that it is the latter. 

Now personally, I don't really give a shit because it being £60 or £200 wouldn't affect my purchasing if I wanted it. But pretending that this combination of magnets and wire is some kind of mystical formula secret sauce is what I am picking on. It's more marketing hype, and the fact it's yet another Periphery-associated signature product is what makes it especially funny.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Flappydoodle said:


> No, I didn't say it as some sort of gotcha. My point is that the base material is not explaining even a tiny proportion of the cost, or the price hikes. On the BKP forum people are speculating about rising costs of the metal wires etc.
> 
> While comparing a guitar pickup to performing surgery is obviously ridiculous, there is a certain amount of expertise, skill, cost and overhead involved in designing and making a guitar pickup. But charging £200 is either placing a HUGE value on the intellectual property/secret sauce - or, it's simply a price determined by marketing that has an enormous margin built in. I posit that it is the latter.
> 
> Now personally, I don't really give a shit because it being £60 or £200 wouldn't affect my purchasing if I wanted it. But pretending that this combination of magnets and wire is some kind of mystical formula secret sauce is what I am picking on. It's more marketing hype, and the fact it's yet another Periphery-associated signature product is what makes it especially funny.



The point is, that can be said about nearly everything, so pointing out that the materials are reasonably cheap doesn't really do anything. 

Your average ESP Original, that streets for around $5k contains probably, given wholesale savings, about $300 in materials. But we all know that. Why do folks pay $5k? Because ESP has earned the reputation for delivering an exceptional product, and the work they've done over the decades to cultivate that image allows them to charge the price they choose to.


----------



## Edika

KnightBrolaire said:


> *cackles while looking at his 300$ PRS Mushok he's put thousands of dollars of pickups into*



You did for science though so everyone approves!

On another note, how a business works is a lot more complicated that the cost of raw materials. There are several factors that contribute to pricing, from operational costs like rent, utility bills, a workshop that meets health and safety standards, wages, taxes, packaging materials, advertisement and media campaign cost, RnD, endorsements etc etc. The size of the company will determine sometimes the cost of the product and if sometimes the manufacturer can eat the cost of materials increase as well as rising costs in utilities. I mean in the cost of natural gas and oil has skyrocketed the last couple of months, there is shortage of raw materials due to disruption in supply chain. Then you have Brexit which would add additional VAT in any materials coming through the EU.
Bareknuckle was a niche manufacturer that has managed to become more mainstream. Having production guitars with your pickups on is a sign of getting more recognition in the guitar world. There are several more affordable pickup companies which will give you a great sound. I'm not sure if Bare Knuckle can be considered as special as some claim, I tried one of their pickups and I liked it. I have recently got another guitar with a BK in it (I need to identify what it is) but as it is in for a professional check and setup, I'll be able to make an assesment after I play it. It sounded good for the short time I tried it. In the end none of you are obligated to buy them but I do understand the annoyance one might get from the constant hyping of individuals about these pickups (aside from the endorsed artists) that come to a fanatical infatuation with them, like they have shares in the company or something.


----------



## LostTheTone

MaxOfMetal said:


> The point is, that can be said about nearly everything, so pointing out that the materials are reasonably cheap doesn't really do anything.
> 
> Your average ESP Original, that streets for around $5k contains probably, given wholesale savings, about $300 in materials. But we all know that. Why do folks pay $5k? Because ESP has earned the reputation for delivering an exceptional product, and the work they've done over the decades to cultivate that image allows them to charge the price they choose to.



Right, but the question all along has been: "Are BKP good enough to charge any price they want?"

BKP has a somewhat good reputation, true enough, but streaked with concerns about price. Not just about the top end models with the boutique finishes. All of them. Fishman are the benchmark; excellent pickups and not perfect by any means but if you have no other strong opinions about what pickups you want then £250 and a set of Moderns will serve you really very well. And against that backdrop, BKPs reputation is "yes they are good, but they are also expensive, and some people say you don't even really see a benefit". 

Yeah, sure, there is more to any pickup than just some wire and a magnet. I don't think any pickup can be magic, but I do think pickups are different, and that it's ok to spend money on them. But how much money? And how much difference? 

Sure, someone somewhere is willing to pay £400 for these pickups. But someone somewhere is willing to pay £400 to rub some chicks feet, that doesn't mean that foot massages are worth £400. 

So what are we really talking about here? If you are a tone pervert then by all means hurl your money at BKP until you rupture with ecstasy. Your money mate, you do what you want. But assuming the prospect of rubbing BKPs feet doesn't make you shudder, what would Polymaths have to deliver to make the price worthwhile? And once you've worked out what they would have to do, ask if that is even possible within the constraints of passive pickups made of wire and magnets.


----------



## lewis

It's kind of getting to the point where once you work out what output you want in a pickup, it makes sense to get any old pup at that output and fit an on board 3 band eq to dial it in exactly hw you want.

That seems way way more cost effective to me and also makes more sense. So I buy $400 bareknuckles but I'm stuck with them sounding one way unless I spend even more on onboard eq.

Or buy a $200 set of anything so long as it's output is right for you, and buy an onboard 3 band for $100 and for $300 ( $100 cheaper than these mental prices) have unlimited pickup EQ possibilities right at the guitar.


----------



## -Nolly-

Tough crowd! I get it though, the marketplace is awash with pickups, these ones are expensive etc. Hopefully those that are willing and able to give the Polymaths a shot like them as much as I do.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

LostTheTone said:


> Right, but the question all along has been: "Are BKP good enough to charge any price they want?"
> 
> BKP has a somewhat good reputation, true enough, but streaked with concerns about price. Not just about the top end models with the boutique finishes. All of them. Fishman are the benchmark; excellent pickups and not perfect by any means but if you have no other strong opinions about what pickups you want then £250 and a set of Moderns will serve you really very well. And against that backdrop, BKPs reputation is "yes they are good, but they are also expensive, and some people say you don't even really see a benefit".
> 
> Yeah, sure, there is more to any pickup than just some wire and a magnet. I don't think any pickup can be magic, but I do think pickups are different, and that it's ok to spend money on them. But how much money? And how much difference?
> 
> Sure, someone somewhere is willing to pay £400 for these pickups. But someone somewhere is willing to pay £400 to rub some chicks feet, that doesn't mean that foot massages are worth £400.
> 
> So what are we really talking about here? If you are a tone pervert then by all means hurl your money at BKP until you rupture with ecstasy. Your money mate, you do what you want. But assuming the prospect of rubbing BKPs feet doesn't make you shudder, what would Polymaths have to deliver to make the price worthwhile? And once you've worked out what they would have to do, ask if that is even possible within the constraints of passive pickups made of wire and magnets.



Have fun with it.


----------



## IwantTacos

all I hear is poor people going blah blah blah blah blah


----------



## Ericjutsu

how do these compare to the Ragnaroks? I've been eyeing a new bridge pickup for my 8 string Prestige. I currently have a Nazgul/Sentient combo. Right now, my guitar sounds a bit thin.


----------



## IwantTacos

Ericjutsu said:


> how do these compare to the Ragnaroks? I've been eyeing a new bridge pickup for my 8 string Prestige. I currently have a Nazgul/Sentient combo. Right now, my guitar sounds a bit thin.



actually not a big fan of the rags in the guitars I've put them in. good sounding pickups. If you need fatness it might work. Or a warping. Or a silo.


----------



## Ericjutsu

IwantTacos said:


> actually not a big fan of the rags in the guitars I've put them in. good sounding pickups. If you need fatness it might work. Or a warping. Or a silo.


which pickup would you recommend for a good 8 string metal tone? I have a Prestige with a Basswood body and maple/wenge neck


----------



## lewis

IwantTacos said:


> all I hear is poor people going blah blah blah blah blah


All I see* is a rich minority going blah blah blah blah blah


----------



## Matt08642

Next thing: Buying "YouTube Played" pickups for $1000 when all the reviewers flip them for the next big thing but claim "IDK, this one has something special to it" like that antiquity JB Seymour Duncan sold a while back

That being said, if youtubers don't already sell stuff I'd like to see their gear closet - I barely change pickups but already feel like I have too many sitting around, so can't imagine being sent new ones each month (unless they get sent back)?


----------



## -Nolly-

Ericjutsu said:


> how do these compare to the Ragnaroks? I've been eyeing a new bridge pickup for my 8 string Prestige. I currently have a Nazgul/Sentient combo. Right now, my guitar sounds a bit thin.



Having benchmarked against the Ragnaroks and the Nazgul, my findings were that the Polymaths do not drive anywhere near as hard as either, but offer a broader midrange, and a "juicier" feel with less top and bottom end. 
Like the Polymath, the Nazgul has a 43AWG wind, but at a lower DCR resulting in a higher resonant peak (i.e. more upper midrange), though this is reduced a bit by the copper tape wound around the coils (something SD seem to be doing with all their modern metal focussed pickups). The Nazgul has a large ceramic magnet, which drives the amp really hard and also gives you a faster/stiffer response with lots more sharpness in the attack. 
The Ragnarok is a 45AWG wind so that ups the DCR considerably and results in a narrow Q focus in the middle of the midrange that gives that slightly "cocked wah" voice. With the big ceramic magnet it again drives hard but the wind means it's not as upper midrange-y/sharp as the Nazgul.

I hope that helps


----------



## Emperoff

-Nolly- said:


> Having benchmarked against the Ragnaroks and the Nazgul, my findings were that the Polymaths do not drive anywhere near as hard as either, but offer a broader midrange, and a "juicier" feel with less top and bottom end.
> Like the Polymath, the Nazgul has a 43AWG wind, but at a lower DCR resulting in a higher resonant peak (i.e. more upper midrange), though this is reduced a bit by the copper tape wound around the coils (something SD seem to be doing with all their modern metal focussed pickups). The Nazgul has a large ceramic magnet, which drives the amp really hard and also gives you a faster/stiffer response with lots more sharpness in the attack.
> The Ragnarok is a 45AWG wind so that ups the DCR considerably and results in a narrow Q focus in the middle of the midrange that gives that slightly "cocked wah" voice. With the big ceramic magnet it again drives hard but the wind means it's not as upper midrange-y/sharp as the Nazgul.
> 
> I hope that helps



Interesting. I was about to order a Silo set but now these came out and I find they seem to target the same kind of tones. How would you compare the two? They would be replacing a Juggernaut set.


----------



## IwantTacos

lewis said:


> All I see* is a rich minority going blah blah blah blah blah



lot's of blah blah blah blah for something you aren't ever going to buy.

oh but wait you'd totally buy it if it was more affordable. 

well no shit dude. I'd eat at 3 star michelins every day if they only charged treefiddy.


----------



## Emperoff

IwantTacos said:


> I'd eat at 3 star michelins every day if they only charged treefiddy.



I thought you wanted Tacos...


----------



## narad

The nostalgia of seeing the Nollywood avatar may be the best thing I've gotten out of this thread <3<3<3


----------



## IwantTacos

Emperoff said:


> I thought you wanted Tacos...



https://vicesreserve.com/blogs/the-magazine/michelin-starred-tacos

actually these tacos look like they fucking suck. 

gonna write 3000 words about it.


----------



## -Nolly-

Emperoff said:


> Interesting. I was about to order a Silo set but now these came out and I find they seem to target the same kind of tones. How would you compare the two? They would be replacing a Juggernaut set.



I think the Silos are great pickups! The Polymath bridge shares a similar mid-forwardness to the Silo but at a lower output level. The Polymath has less low end/low mid and a more open top end and dynamic as a result of the asymmetrical 43AWG vs symmetrical 44AWG of the Silo bridge, and the unoriented A5 magnet in the Polymath gives it the broad midrange and slightly squishier feel that I like to dig into when I play.
As far as neck pickups go, the Silo has a leaner, brighter, more classic voice where the Polymath has more of a wider modern "fluid" sound. lots of note definition but the attack is a bit lower down the spectrum than a PAF-y neck pickup. The Polymath neck has a couple of interesting geeky twists that make it work very nicely when used in a parallel coil configuration - a sound I've fallen in love with and find a lot more authentic than a typical split-coil arrangement.

I'm trying to stay as neutral as I can here. I know flowery language is often used to distract from the fact a product is actually not doing much different than its competitors, but some form of descriptors are necessary to convey things here. I will say that from the beginning of the process, Tim and I were clear that unless the pickup we ended up with offered something genuinely different to what is out there there was no point in releasing it. If I had simply found a pickup that already exists that ticked all the boxes I would have just used that instead of trying to cram yet another pickup into an already packed market.


----------



## lewis

For people who want comparisons between bareknuckle pups, are there DIs available you can try them out through your own rig?


----------



## cmpxchg

Thanks Nolly, the comparisons to other pickups are very helpful; it's hard to get a sense for what any pickup sounds like when all you've got to go on is marketing text and videos at various levels of production. I've been thinking about switching Black Winters in my RG for something a little less extreme, and given how much I like parallel sounds I'm suddenly tempted by these.


----------



## Emperoff

-Nolly- said:


> I think the Silos are great pickups! The Polymath bridge shares a similar mid-forwardness to the Silo but at a lower output level. The Polymath has less low end/low mid and a more open top end and dynamic as a result of the asymmetrical 43AWG vs symmetrical 44AWG of the Silo bridge, and the unoriented A5 magnet in the Polymath gives it the broad midrange and slightly squishier feel that I like to dig into when I play.
> As far as neck pickups go, the Silo has a leaner, brighter, more classic voice where the Polymath has more of a wider modern "fluid" sound. lots of note definition but the attack is a bit lower down the spectrum than a PAF-y neck pickup. The Polymath neck has a couple of interesting geeky twists that make it work very nicely when used in a parallel coil configuration - a sound I've fallen in love with and find a lot more authentic than a typical split-coil arrangement.
> 
> I'm trying to stay as neutral as I can here. I know flowery language is often used to distract from the fact a product is actually not doing much different than its competitors, but some form of descriptors are necessary to convey things here. I will say that from the beginning of the process, Tim and I were clear that unless the pickup we ended up with offered something genuinely different to what is out there there was no point in releasing it. If I had simply found a pickup that already exists that ticked all the boxes I would have just used that instead of trying to cram yet another pickup into an already packed market.



Thank you for the super detailed comparison. It was actually really useful and easy to understand. I can see how the Polymaths can work for plenty of people but your post definetely directed me straight to the Silos (for that particular guitar). Higher output, more low/low mids, sweeter highs, and a brighter neck pickup. Just what I need. I don't even use parallel wirings so I think the choice is clear.


----------



## -Nolly-

cmpxchg said:


> Thanks Nolly, the comparisons to other pickups are very helpful; it's hard to get a sense for what any pickup sounds like when all you've got to go on is marketing text and videos at various levels of production. I've been thinking about switching Black Winters in my RG for something a little less extreme, and given how much I like parallel sounds I'm suddenly tempted by these.





Emperoff said:


> Thank you for the super detailed comparison. It was actually really useful and easy to understand. I can see how the Polymaths can work for plenty of people but your post definetely directed me straight to the Silos (for that particular guitar). Higher output, more low/low mids, sweeter highs, and a brighter neck pickup. Just what I need. I don't even use parallel wirings so I think the choice is clear.




Great, I'm glad the comparisons were helpful. I've tested a lot of the more popular pickups out there as part of the process of designing the Polymath, so I'm happy to draw more comparisons if people would find that useful.
I'll just be very pedantic about one thing Emperoff - I would definitely describe the high end of the Polymath as "sweet", it just extends a bit higher than that of the Silo. I wouldn't be so picky if it weren't for the fact that the "sweetness" of the high end that we got once we auditioned the unoriented A5 magnets was one of the aspects that sealed the deal on the Polymath design! To be as clear as possible, by "sweetness" I'm referring to a lack of harshness particularly as you dig into the strings more.


----------



## Xaeldaren

-Nolly- said:


> Great, I'm glad the comparisons were helpful. I've tested a lot of the more popular pickups out there as part of the process of designing the Polymath, so I'm happy to draw more comparisons if people would find that useful.
> I'll just be very pedantic about one thing Emperoff - I would definitely describe the high end of the Polymath as "sweet", it just extends a bit higher than that of the Silo. I wouldn't be so picky if it weren't for the fact that the "sweetness" of the high end that we got once we auditioned the unoriented A5 magnets was one of the aspects that sealed the deal on the Polymath design! To be as clear as possible, by "sweetness" I'm referring to a lack of harshness particularly as you dig into the strings more.



I seriously appreciate you going into such detail on this! This was of particular interest to me as I have the Ragnaroks in one guitar, the Silos in another, and I am weighing up my options for pickups on an Aristides order I'm making I'm the near future. I prefer the Ragnaroks for most high gain tones, so is there anything you could say that might sway me from loading my next guitar with a thermonuclear ceramic-magnet equipped monstrosity and towards the Polymaths?


----------



## Emperoff

-Nolly- said:


> Great, I'm glad the comparisons were helpful. I've tested a lot of the more popular pickups out there as part of the process of designing the Polymath, so I'm happy to draw more comparisons if people would find that useful.
> I'll just be very pedantic about one thing Emperoff - I would definitely describe the high end of the Polymath as "sweet", it just extends a bit higher than that of the Silo. I wouldn't be so picky if it weren't for the fact that the "sweetness" of the high end that we got once we auditioned the unoriented A5 magnets was one of the aspects that sealed the deal on the Polymath design! To be as clear as possible, by "sweetness" I'm referring to a lack of harshness particularly as you dig into the strings more.



Cool to know. The guitar in question is a very bright instrument, so I needed something that could fill the sound more. The Juggernauts are often referred as "warm" pickups, but in that guitar the high-mids still feel very dry (probably due to the ceramic flankers), and the tonal balance between neck and bridge pickups seems to be all over the place.

I'm sure either set will work fine since both seem to have the sweet top end of A5 pickups that I like, but having a brigther neck pickup and a beefier bridge pickup sealed the deal for me. People usually go the opposite route, but I do most of my lead playing on the bridge pickup, and I like my neck pickups to be spanky, not warm/fluid (since I don't like parallel/split configurations).

Thanks again for the advice!


----------



## CanserDYI

Anyone else feel kinda bad that we got 12 pages about bitching about pricing before we got Nolly in the chat actually talking about the pickups?


----------



## narad

CanserDYI said:


> Anyone else feel kinda bad that we got 12 pages about bitching about pricing before we got Nolly in the chat actually talking about the pickups?



Well we were going to bitch about the price hike regardless, it was just unfortunate that it coincided with the release of Nolly's pickup, and really what are we going to talk about for a pickup none of us own yet? But apart from that, these pickups do interest me more than anything BKP has done lately (roughly there together with the silos). 

I mean, the description of the polymaths sound like an ideal pickup to me, but more of like my ideal P90 than my ideal HB. Polymath90 anyone?


----------



## Emperoff

CanserDYI said:


> Anyone else feel kinda bad that we got 12 pages about bitching about pricing before we got Nolly in the chat actually talking about the pickups?



If it makes you feel any better, here is the thread about them on official BKP forum:

https://forum.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/index.php?topic=37794.0

The pickups might sound godly, but they are still bloody expensive. There is no way around it, and people will talk about it (the fact that people is bitching even on the official BKP forum says quite a bit). I know the price hike is not restricted to the Polymaths, but it still applies to them, so...

Either way, if you are interested on BKPs but find their prices outrageous, you should ask for a quote on your local dealers. They will still be expensive, but the set I specc'd costs me 350€ vs. the +500€ that would cost me on the official BKP store (including exchange rate, shipping and VAT).


----------



## CanserDYI

Emperoff said:


> If it makes you feel any better, here is the thread about them on official BKP forum:
> 
> https://forum.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/index.php?topic=37794.0
> 
> The pickups might sound godly, but they are still bloody expensive. There is no way around it, and people will talk about it (the fact that people is bitching even on the official BKP forum says quite a bit). I know the price hike is not restricted to the Polymaths, but it still applies to them, so...
> 
> Either way, if you are interested on BKPs but find their prices outrageous, you should ask for a quote on your local dealers. They will still be expensive, but the set I specc'd costs me 350€ vs. the +500€ that would cost me on the official BKP store (including exchange rate, shipping and VAT).


Ohhh so they run the site like Hipshot, super super pricey to buy direct.


----------



## lewis

To clarify its unfortunate its Nollys set from sure and my gripes earlier on in here certainly isn't personal. I would be against the price hike whoever the set was from. My frustration is aimed at Bareknuckle.

In typical nolly fashion he saw all our negativity and still ended up being super helpful with knowledge haha.


----------



## budda

CanserDYI said:


> Anyone else feel kinda bad that we got 12 pages about bitching about pricing before we got Nolly in the chat actually talking about the pickups?



No. Ive been here long enough 

Oldheads remember asking for the Bulb/Nolly 80s album.


----------



## Ericjutsu

-Nolly- said:


> Having benchmarked against the Ragnaroks and the Nazgul, my findings were that the Polymaths do not drive anywhere near as hard as either, but offer a broader midrange, and a "juicier" feel with less top and bottom end.
> Like the Polymath, the Nazgul has a 43AWG wind, but at a lower DCR resulting in a higher resonant peak (i.e. more upper midrange), though this is reduced a bit by the copper tape wound around the coils (something SD seem to be doing with all their modern metal focussed pickups). The Nazgul has a large ceramic magnet, which drives the amp really hard and also gives you a faster/stiffer response with lots more sharpness in the attack.
> The Ragnarok is a 45AWG wind so that ups the DCR considerably and results in a narrow Q focus in the middle of the midrange that gives that slightly "cocked wah" voice. With the big ceramic magnet it again drives hard but the wind means it's not as upper midrange-y/sharp as the Nazgul.
> 
> I hope that helps


thanks Nolly! I have no idea what to get for a pickup, but I know right now I'm not super happy with the sound. 
I like your amp sig amp sim and GGD: Cali BTW.


----------



## Albake21

-Nolly- said:


> Great, I'm glad the comparisons were helpful. I've tested a lot of the more popular pickups out there as part of the process of designing the Polymath, so I'm happy to draw more comparisons if people would find that useful.
> I'll just be very pedantic about one thing Emperoff - I would definitely describe the high end of the Polymath as "sweet", it just extends a bit higher than that of the Silo. I wouldn't be so picky if it weren't for the fact that the "sweetness" of the high end that we got once we auditioned the unoriented A5 magnets was one of the aspects that sealed the deal on the Polymath design! To be as clear as possible, by "sweetness" I'm referring to a lack of harshness particularly as you dig into the strings more.


After reading your description and comparisons, it almost sounds like Mark's SD Omega but with an A5 magnet? Can you compare the Polymaths to the Alpha/Omega set?


----------



## ScottThunes1960

Albake21 said:


> After reading your description and comparisons, it almost sounds like Mark's SD Omega but with an A5 magnet? Can you compare the Polymaths to the Alpha/Omega set?



The Polymaths aren’t yet associated with a sexual predator.


----------



## Hollowway

-Nolly- said:


> Having benchmarked against the Ragnaroks and the Nazgul, my findings were that the Polymaths do not drive anywhere near as hard as either, but offer a broader midrange, and a "juicier" feel with less top and bottom end.
> Like the Polymath, the Nazgul has a 43AWG wind, but at a lower DCR resulting in a higher resonant peak (i.e. more upper midrange), though this is reduced a bit by the copper tape wound around the coils (something SD seem to be doing with all their modern metal focussed pickups). The Nazgul has a large ceramic magnet, which drives the amp really hard and also gives you a faster/stiffer response with lots more sharpness in the attack.
> The Ragnarok is a 45AWG wind so that ups the DCR considerably and results in a narrow Q focus in the middle of the midrange that gives that slightly "cocked wah" voice. With the big ceramic magnet it again drives hard but the wind means it's not as upper midrange-y/sharp as the Nazgul.
> 
> I hope that helps



This sort of description is immensely helpful! I wish we could get more of this stuff, because then it’s easy to compare apples to apples when deciding what to get. I know we can never get away from the subjective language completely, but having hardcore objective specs makes it way easier to determine what would work with the sound that each person is after. Thanks for taking the time to dig deep into this!


----------



## -Nolly-

I'm happy to help, glad my comments are useful to some of you



Xaeldaren said:


> I seriously appreciate you going into such detail on this! This was of particular interest to me as I have the Ragnaroks in one guitar, the Silos in another, and I am weighing up my options for pickups on an Aristides order I'm making I'm the near future. I prefer the Ragnaroks for most high gain tones, so is there anything you could say that might sway me from loading my next guitar with a thermonuclear ceramic-magnet equipped monstrosity and towards the Polymaths?



Hah, well it's up to you of course, but I'll say the Polymaths do very much hold their own when it comes to metal of all sorts. I've found you can raise them right up almost touching the strings and get a very focussed grind from them. I'm not sure if you've heard the clips on the BKP site but there is an isolated single-tracked high gain guitar clip on that I think conveys the pickup character really well.



Albake21 said:


> After reading your description and comparisons, it almost sounds like Mark's SD Omega but with an A5 magnet? Can you compare the Polymaths to the Alpha/Omega set?



I'd say there is very little similarity to the Omega. The Omega has a very low wind for a 43AWG pickup, meaning it's got a high resonant peak, a lot of top end extension, with reduced midrange and even less low end. The regular-sized ceramic magnet reinforces this same set of characteristics. The copper tape around the coils and the use of double Allen bolt polepieces are the factors that reign in the treble response from getting out of hand, but it's still a bright pickup.
Changing the magnet to a regular (oriented) A5 would reduce the treble response and output but wouldn't do much to counteract the midrange voice of the wind. If you were to throw an unoriented A5 in you'd eke some more midrange out and see the top end get smoother, but you'd probably find the pickup a bit weak.

If you go from a stock Omega to the Polymath bridge you'll experience a lessening in output (at the same pickup height, but you can raise the Polymath up to get equivalent or higher output), you'll get a lot more midrange, the pick chirp is fatter and springier, with a significant amount more audible harmonic overtones.


----------



## Albake21

-Nolly- said:


> I'd say there is very little similarity to the Omega. The Omega has a very low wind for a 43AWG pickup, meaning it's got a high resonant peak, a lot of top end extension, with reduced midrange and even less low end. The regular-sized ceramic magnet reinforces this same set of characteristics. The copper tape around the coils and the use of double Allen bolt polepieces are the factors that reign in the treble response from getting out of hand, but it's still a bright pickup.
> Changing the magnet to a regular (oriented) A5 would reduce the treble response and output but wouldn't do much to counteract the midrange voice of the wind. If you were to throw an unoriented A5 in you'd eke some more midrange out and see the top end get smoother, but you'd probably find the pickup a bit weak.
> 
> If you go from a stock Omega to the Polymath bridge you'll experience a lessening in output (at the same pickup height, but you can raise the Polymath up to get equivalent or higher output), you'll get a lot more midrange, the pick chirp is fatter and springier, with a significant amount more audible harmonic overtones.



As someone who's wanting to learn more about the ins and outs of a pickup, I appreciate this detailed response. The Polymath sounds pretty interesting then as it sounds like it would fix my gripes with the Omega. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Xaeldaren

-Nolly- said:


> I'm happy to help, glad my comments are useful to some of you
> 
> 
> 
> Hah, well it's up to you of course, but I'll say the Polymaths do very much hold their own when it comes to metal of all sorts. I've found you can raise them right up almost touching the strings and get a very focussed grind from them. I'm not sure if you've heard the clips on the BKP site but there is an isolated single-tracked high gain guitar clip on that I think conveys the pickup character really well.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say there is very little similarity to the Omega. The Omega has a very low wind for a 43AWG pickup, meaning it's got a high resonant peak, a lot of top end extension, with reduced midrange and even less low end. The regular-sized ceramic magnet reinforces this same set of characteristics. The copper tape around the coils and the use of double Allen bolt polepieces are the factors that reign in the treble response from getting out of hand, but it's still a bright pickup.
> Changing the magnet to a regular (oriented) A5 would reduce the treble response and output but wouldn't do much to counteract the midrange voice of the wind. If you were to throw an unoriented A5 in you'd eke some more midrange out and see the top end get smoother, but you'd probably find the pickup a bit weak.
> 
> If you go from a stock Omega to the Polymath bridge you'll experience a lessening in output (at the same pickup height, but you can raise the Polymath up to get equivalent or higher output), you'll get a lot more midrange, the pick chirp is fatter and springier, with a significant amount more audible harmonic overtones.



Your comments are incredibly helpful! I'm quite a novice on pickups beyond what I can hear and feel with what I have, so I find comments like this fascinating.


----------



## Apex1rg7x

Albake21 said:


> As someone who's wanting to learn more about the ins and outs of a pickup, I appreciate this detailed response. The Polymath sounds pretty interesting then as it sounds like it would fix my gripes with the Omega. Thanks for the info.


100% my thoughts as well. There was always something about the Omega that I couldn't get along with. This helps a ton with that.


----------



## -Nolly-

Awesome, I'm very happy to have been of help!


----------



## Mountainman

I know there is far more to a pickup than the magnet, but its nice to see UOA5 get some love in a big name production pickup. I have a Rewind PAF1 with that magnet and its easily my favorite PAF style pickup.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

A somewhat unrelated question for @-Nolly- after seeing the latest Polymath video: how do you like the Kii Three monitors? On paper and after research, they seem like incredible monitors, but they are big, BIG bucks.


----------



## -Nolly-

Mountainman said:


> I know there is far more to a pickup than the magnet, but its nice to see UOA5 get some love in a big name production pickup. I have a Rewind PAF1 with that magnet and its easily my favorite PAF style pickup.



Awesome, yeah there are very few pickups out there using UOA5. It may not be suitable for every wind but in the Polymath it brought the pickup to life



Kyle Jordan said:


> A somewhat unrelated question for @-Nolly- after seeing the latest Polymath video: how do you like the Kii Three monitors? On paper and after research, they seem like incredible monitors, but they are big, BIG bucks.



Put it this way, I've never heard audio sound like this before. You can hear everything, all the time, e.g. the quietest reverb tail on a percussion element is still discernible behind a loud guitar solo. I think they're the single best investment I've made in my career.


----------



## Kyle Jordan

-Nolly- said:


> Put it this way, I've never heard audio sound like this before. You can hear everything, all the time, e.g. the quietest reverb tail on a percussion element is still discernible behind a loud guitar solo. I think they're the single best investment I've made in my career.



Well, that’s one hell of a resounding endorsement if I’ve ever read one. 

Thanks for the feedback.


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## Xaeldaren

-Nolly- said:


> Awesome, yeah there are very few pickups out there using UOA5. It may not be suitable for every wind but in the Polymath it brought the pickup to life
> 
> 
> 
> Put it this way, I've never heard audio sound like this before. You can hear everything, all the time, e.g. the quietest reverb tail on a percussion element is still discernible behind a loud guitar solo. I think they're the single best investment I've made in my career.



I hope you don't mind me picking your brain some more with regards to the Polymath, but despite what I said earlier regarding the Ragnaroks, I have been curious about some of the lower output options in the line like the Black Dog/VHII in the neck. How would you describe the differences between those and the Polymaths?


----------



## -Nolly-

Kyle Jordan said:


> Well, that’s one hell of a resounding endorsement if I’ve ever read one.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback.



No worries, I'm making a point to not talk too much about them unprompted because I'm aware the price tag is so exclusive and I don't want to come across like I'm bragging or looking down on other monitors. If you have a chance to audition them it's worth checking them out for the pleasure of hearing music sound so beautifully intimate and all-encompassing.



Xaeldaren said:


> I hope you don't mind me picking your brain some more with regards to the Polymath, but despite what I said earlier regarding the Ragnaroks, I have been curious about some of the lower output options in the line like the Black Dog/VHII in the neck. How would you describe the differences between those and the Polymaths?



No problem! 
Firstly, the Black Dog uses 42AWG Polysol wire vs the 43AWG of the Polymaths, hence the significantly lower DC resistance of the former. The actual peak output is comparable when you dig in, but the Black Dog has a drier, more dynamic feel with a much higher resonant peak and comparatively less low mid/low end. The Black Dog sounds very "snarly" and has more twang up top. The tight low end and upper mid makes it really "grind" through a high gain amp as long as you maintain picking intensity or use thicker strings that will drive it enough. I think if you like the Ragnarok and pick aggressively you'd really like the Black Dog for rhythm tones.By comparison the Polymath has a juicier and easier playing feel with a broader midrange and less twang. In general I think it's easier to think of a Black Dog as a somewhat aggressive sounding PAF-style pickup.
The VHII neck uses 42AWG as well but its special feature is the large coil offset that increases the top end and tucks the mids away a bit for a bit of a single-coil edge. Compared to the Polymath neck the VHII is a bit lower in output and classic in voice, but given that the Polymath neck uses two different wire types, you have also got some of that "offset" vibe where there's some single coiliness though with more midrange and fluidity. The VHII will give you more extended top end than the Polymath, which has a lot of attack but a bit lower down in the spectrum.


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## Xaeldaren

-Nolly- said:


> No worries, I'm making a point to not talk too much about them unprompted because I'm aware the price tag is so exclusive and I don't want to come across like I'm bragging or looking down on other monitors. If you have a chance to audition them it's worth checking them out for the pleasure of hearing music sound so beautifully intimate and all-encompassing.
> 
> 
> 
> No problem!
> Firstly, the Black Dog uses 42AWG Polysol wire vs the 43AWG of the Polymaths, hence the significantly lower DC resistance of the former. The actual peak output is comparable when you dig in, but the Black Dog has a drier, more dynamic feel with a much higher resonant peak and comparatively less low mid/low end. The Black Dog sounds very "snarly" and has more twang up top. The tight low end and upper mid makes it really "grind" through a high gain amp as long as you maintain picking intensity or use thicker strings that will drive it enough. I think if you like the Ragnarok and pick aggressively you'd really like the Black Dog for rhythm tones.By comparison the Polymath has a juicier and easier playing feel with a broader midrange and less twang. In general I think it's easier to think of a Black Dog as a somewhat aggressive sounding PAF-style pickup.
> The VHII neck uses 42AWG as well but its special feature is the large coil offset that increases the top end and tucks the mids away a bit for a bit of a single-coil edge. Compared to the Polymath neck the VHII is a bit lower in output and classic in voice, but given that the Polymath neck uses two different wire types, you have also got some of that "offset" vibe where there's some single coiliness though with more midrange and fluidity. The VHII will give you more extended top end than the Polymath, which has a lot of attack but a bit lower down in the spectrum.



Thanks so much - this is so helpful. I do indeed pick very hard, and I use 11-54 for DADGAD, and 10-64 for A# 7 string DADGAD tuning Monuments-esque shenanigans. To be fair, it doesn't sound like I'd be unhappy with either set, but it seems like The BD/VHII might be more what I'm looking for in a lower output range than the Polymaths. These sets are for an incoming Aristides order, and so whichever I don't go for I'll probably try on a future order down the line!


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## KnightBrolaire

interesting.


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## TheBolivianSniper

So I initially blew these things off but if the best demonstration of the tones are in fact what's on the website these are kind of the sound I've been looking for for a long time. No chirpy pick attack, thickness, good clarity and tightness but lots of cocked wah mids. Wow. I can't afford it but perhaps one bridge pickup may be the partner to the upcoming sustainiac installation.


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## STRHelvete

*Clicks, sees price, laughs at people dumb enough to pay for such a thing. Buys 70 dollar SD pickup. Enjoys*


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## buriedoutback

lewis said:


> ...didn't even care what the pickups were because of the faith he had in his own ability to get the recording and mix sounding sick so long as you were a good guitarist on a click...



Quoted for truth


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## Emperoff

STRHelvete said:


> *Clicks, sees price, laughs at people dumb enough to pay for such a thing. Buys 70 dollar SD pickup. Enjoys*



https://www.thomann.de/es/seymour_duncan_nazgul_7_bridge_soapbar_cover.htm


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## STRHelvete

Emperoff said:


> https://www.thomann.de/es/seymour_duncan_nazgul_7_bridge_soapbar_cover.htm


*Laughs in 6 string prices*


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## Emperoff

STRHelvete said:


> *Laughs in 6 string prices*



Funny thing is a BKP set only costs me 50€ more than a Duncan Set (and that includes artist signature fee, fancy covers, and "handmade fairy dust"). So looks like 7-string SD pickups are probably way more overpriced than BKPs are.


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## ScottThunes1960

Emperoff said:


> Funny thing is a BKP set only costs me 50€ more than a Duncan Set (and that includes artist signature fee, fancy covers, and "handmade fairy dust"). So looks like 7-string SD pickups are probably way more overpriced than BKPs are.



_Location: Spain_

Are people really not considering what importing fairy dust adds to the cost, or that where they live makes that difference?


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## STRHelvete

Emperoff said:


> Funny thing is a BKP set only costs me 50€ more than a Duncan Set (and that includes artist signature fee, fancy covers, and "handmade fairy dust"). So looks like 7-string SD pickups are probably way more overpriced than BKPs are.


*Laughs in spending 50 less and happy*


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## narad

Can we move on from people trying to justify not buying things they can't easily afford?


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## IwantTacos

narad said:


> Can we move on from people trying to justify not buying things they can't easily afford?



If we did that this forum would just be instagram kids posting Aristides.


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## narad

IwantTacos said:


> If we did that this forum would just be instagram kids posting Aristides.



Sounds like an improvement?


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## Hoss632

-Nolly- said:


> Awesome, I'm very happy to have been of help!


Would you say the Polymath is mainly voiced for lower tunings? Or would it sound good in tunings like Drop C# and Eb standard? Tonally for me I lean more towards the heavier side of pop punk and hard rock (like tremonti and Tony from Godsmack).


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## Emperoff

ScottThunes1960 said:


> _Location: Spain_
> 
> Are people really not considering what importing fairy dust adds to the cost, or that where they live makes that difference?



Are people just making blank assumptions based on country of residence?

The UK is not in EU, so EU dealers are also subject to VAT (extra 21% in my case) when importing these. Same as with Duncan, Dimarzio or whatever. BTW, the website I linked is german.

So what's your point, exactly?


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## Xaeldaren

Hoss632 said:


> Would you say the Polymath is mainly voiced for lower tunings? Or would it sound good in tunings like Drop C# and Eb standard? Tonally for me I lean more towards the heavier side of pop punk and hard rock (like tremonti and Tony from Godsmack).



I know Nolly is a big Andy Timmons fan and plays in drop C# a lot, so I'd say you're good there! 

In Polymath-related news, I just opted for them in a Mayones that I'm ordering that's 27" for drop C. I'll let you all know how they are in April when I've paid the thing off!


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## ScottThunes1960

Emperoff said:


> what's your point, exactly?



Apologies, sir - I typed that post in a hurry, and see now that it reads like I was somehow trying to contradict you. I was agreeing with you and quoting your post to point out that many of the posters complaining about price differences seem to have forgotten that they happen to live in one of the two countries these brands are being manufactured in; and aren’t considering that buyers in non-US/UK states are dealing with end-prices dictated by import overhead, rather than just BKP “fairy dust.”


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## STRHelvete

narad said:


> Can we move on from people trying to justify not buying things they can't easily afford?


It's what? 200 bucks? Not exactly a king's ransom, just ridiculously priced for a pickup.


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## narad

STRHelvete said:


> It's what? 200 bucks? Not exactly a king's ransom, just ridiculously priced for a pickup.



It is high for a pickup, and I'm sure that's going to prevent a lot of people from making the leap. No way I'm buying a full set before I test a guitar with them and I'd be skeptical I'd find reason to justify it. But I just find it odd that anyone would be using the logic of some SDs being $50 cheaper to justify _not purchasing some pickup that they've never tried before. _If you try it and think it's not worth the $50, by all means, but obviously right now you don't have any interesting basis for comparison. This is like the pickup version of "Green Eggs & Ham".


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## STRHelvete

narad said:


> It is high for a pickup, and I'm sure that's going to prevent a lot of people from making the leap. No way I'm buying a full set before I test a guitar with them and I'd be skeptical I'd find reason to justify it. But I just find it odd that anyone would be using the logic of some SDs being $50 cheaper to justify _not purchasing some pickup that they've never tried before. _If you try it and think it's not worth the $50, by all means, but obviously right now you don't have any interesting basis for comparison. This is like the pickup version of "Green Eggs & Ham".


If a cheaper, more accessible pickup does the job at a fraction of the price then it works. 

Pickups are often the "new shiny thing" when they're a small part in the overall chain. I find it extremely improbable that the 200+ dollar pickup is somehow going to give me something I can't get from cheaper alternatives. There are a million pickup brands and the boutique "this guy has'em so it'll help me" thing one tends to grow out of after a certain point. I don't need to try an ultra expensive pickup when what I have is perfect for the job..so already that pickup isn't anything close to worth the money.


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## narad

STRHelvete said:


> If a cheaper, more accessible pickup does the job at a fraction of the price then it works.
> 
> Pickups are often the "new shiny thing" when they're a small part in the overall chain. I find it extremely improbable that the 200+ dollar pickup is somehow going to give me something I can't get from cheaper alternatives. There are a million pickup brands and the boutique "this guy has'em so it'll help me" thing one tends to grow out of after a certain point. I don't need to try an ultra expensive pickup when what I have is perfect for the job..so already that pickup isn't anything close to worth the money.



I don't want to "cool story, bro" you, especially since this is the Nolly thread and not the Misha thread. But what you're doing is basically the same as me going onto the Lamborghini forums (a car I have no experience with) and saying, "My Honda Civic works for me! Don't need no over-priced sci-fi car!" Like if what works for you works so well you don't even feel like there's value in trying new things, like... what do you want?


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## STRHelvete

narad said:


> I don't want to "cool story, bro" you, especially since this is the Nolly thread and not the Misha thread. But what you're doing is basically the same as me going onto the Lamborghini forums (a car I have no experience with) and saying, "My Honda Civic works for me! Don't need no over-priced sci-fi car!" Like if what works for you works so well you don't even feel like there's value in trying new things, like... what do you want?


I showed up to check out the new pickup, read about it, then saw the price and laughed. This isn't a luxury car vs a civic. SDs and BKP are both great quality. BKP isn’t a luxury brand, just boutique and touted as amazing, as expensive relatively inaccessible gear is...the fact that you keep trying to suggest it's something special proves the point.

Beyond all that, it's a different opinion. It's okay. It won't hurt you.


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## narad

STRHelvete said:


> BKP isn’t a luxury brand, just boutique and touted as amazing, as expensive relatively inaccessible gear is...the fact that you keep trying to suggest it's something special proves the point.



That I think BKP are "something special" is going to be a hard sell -- I've been chronically underwhelmed by them and basically swapped out all my guitars that came with BKP sets for EMGs. I think they're different, as they're obviously made in different ways. 

So I'm just trying to appeal to the commonsense notion that you don't know what you're missing if you've never tried it. And arguing about how two things compare when you only know one of them is a pretty logically weak place to be standing. Pretty innocuous and objective statements. In that sense, it would be super great (I think) to not spend forever talking about whether people can be equally happy paying $50 less for SDs when no one even has the pickups...


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## STRHelvete

narad said:


> That I think BKP are "something special" is going to be a hard sell -- I've been chronically underwhelmed by them and basically swapped out all my guitars that came with BKP sets for EMGs. I think they're different, as they're obviously made in different ways.
> 
> So I'm just trying to appeal to the commonsense notion that you don't know what you're missing if you've never tried it. And arguing about how two things compare when you only know one of them is a pretty logically weak place to be standing. Pretty innocuous and objective statements. In that sense, it would be super great (I think) to not spend forever talking about whether people can be equally happy paying $50 less for SDs when no one even has the pickups...


It's not that serious. Basic comment "I'm not pressed for super expensive pickups when I found what works and it's a lot cheaper".
No one is spending forever dwelling on it but you. A statement was made..that's it


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## IwantTacos

STRHelvete said:


> It's not that serious. Basic comment "I'm not pressed for super expensive pickups when I found what works and it's a lot cheaper".
> No one is spending forever dwelling on it but you. A statement was made..that's it




Cool story bro

that’s as relevant as saying that I’m probably not going to get these anytime soon because I already have like 3000 dollars worth of pickups just laying around.


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## DeathByButterslax

How many pages of “too expensive” can we get to


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## FitRocker33

I’m banking on this thread diverting into a “fortin sucks” thread somewhere in the next couple of pages..I’ll be waiting


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## TheBolivianSniper

FitRocker33 said:


> I’m banking on this thread diverting into a “fortin sucks” thread somewhere in the next couple of pages..I’ll be waiting



just heard a cali demo and it was some of the worst shit I've ever heard, I can't stand the plugins either, they just sound like twangy thin garbage 


fortin sucks



am I doing it right


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## STRHelvete

TheBolivianSniper said:


> just heard a cali demo and it was some of the worst shit I've ever heard, I can't stand the plugins either, they just sound like twangy thin garbage
> 
> 
> fortin sucks
> 
> 
> 
> am I doing it right


I mean....you ain't wrong. I remember when they were the holy grail around here, now I never hear anything about them


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## FitRocker33

And nearly two years after its release the evil pumpkin production amp still hasn’t made its way into anybody’s hands other than killertone…epic fail


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## BigViolin

Meh. I'd buy one if they were $250.


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## profwoot

Ay I buy entirely too many plugins but I still find myself keeping fortin cali on "rhythm gtr L".

("rhythm gtr R" is currently the STL purple nightmare but PA's engl savage 120 is giving it a run for its money, so my tone's a little bit djenty)


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## teqnick

Waiting for any opinion on the actual characteristics of this pickup is like waiting for Goku to transform to the next level of super saiyan.


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## Legion

teqnick said:


> Waiting for any opinion on the actual characteristics of this pickup is like waiting for Goku to transform to the next level of super saiyan.


I lol'd harder than I had any right to


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## jyym

@-Nolly- what guitar are you currently using your polymath set in? Also, would you mind sharing your wiring setup?


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## lost_horizon




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## Emperoff

lost_horizon said:


>




Finally something interesting! And I don't mean the pickups


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## lost_horizon

Emperoff said:


> Finally something interesting! And I don't mean the pickups


Yes, sound quote rock-like and open, not special and I have 5 different BKP's!


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## thebeesknees22

lost_horizon said:


>




that dudes a killer guitar player. I found his youtube channel a year or two ago. Just smooth effortless playing. Kinda weird stuff sometimes though lol


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## jyym

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bpMEBa085CE

good new demo. @-Nolly- you like parallel over split coil for the polymath?


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## CanserDYI

Is that a true temperament fretted Kiesel?


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## spudmunkey

CanserDYI said:


> Is that a true temperament fretted Kiesel?


Yes. He had the fretboard made, sent it to Kiesel to have it installed (he's a Kiesel endorsed/endorsing artist). A "never again" situation from Jeff.  That said, they've said the same thing about quilted redwood tops, black bursts on white...


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## Matt08642

jym said:


> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bpMEBa085CE
> 
> good new demo. @-Nolly- you like parallel over split coil for the polymath?



This is just a good song too, damn.


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## jvms

spudmunkey said:


> Yes. He had the fretboard made, sent it to Kiesel to have it installed (he's a Kiesel endorsed/endorsing artist). A "never again" situation from Jeff.  That said, they've said the same thing about quilted redwood tops, black bursts on white...



Aparently True Temperament had sokme kind of contest where people on Instagram or wherever chose a few brands TT would send some samples to and see if they could come up with some deal for future guitars. I'm hoping this will work. TT and Evertune are the best combo ever. Everyone should try!


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## LotsOfGrease

Xaeldaren said:


> I seriously appreciate you going into such detail on this! This was of particular interest to me as I have the Ragnaroks in one guitar, the Silos in another, and I am weighing up my options for pickups on an Aristides order I'm making I'm the near future. I prefer the Ragnaroks for most high gain tones, so is there anything you could say that might sway me from loading my next guitar with a thermonuclear ceramic-magnet equipped monstrosity and towards the Polymaths?


What do you like/dislike about the silos vs the rags? I'm looking into one these pickups. I love the upper mid range grind of the polymaths but want a pickup that can do that with a little more bass and output. As Nolly said the silo shares that mid forwardness with the polymath for the bridge, but is it the same kind of mid sound as the polymath or more lower mid sounds? I know the silo has some more bass which is perfect and if it can get that upper mid grind the polymath has I'm sold. If the silo can't I was curious if the rags could.


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## Emperoff

teqnick said:


> Waiting for any opinion on the actual characteristics of this pickup is like waiting for Goku to transform to the next level of super saiyan.



Probably because not many people care to spend 500$ on pickups


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## Xaeldaren

LotsOfGrease said:


> What do you like/dislike about the silos vs the rags? I'm looking into one these pickups. I love the upper mid range grind of the polymaths but want a pickup that can do that with a little more bass and output. As Nolly said the silo shares that mid forwardness with the polymath for the bridge, but is it the same kind of mid sound as the polymath or more lower mid sounds? I know the silo has some more bass which is perfect and if it can get that upper mid grind the polymath has I'm sold. If the silo can't I was curious if the rags could.



Hey! I've just seen this now, so my apologies for the late response. I have since solld both the guitars with the Silos and Ragnaroks in them due to an unexpected illness, and the Silos were in a 7 string, but I'll do my best to give you my perspective. For reference, I have the Polymaths in a Mayones Duvell, and I actually cannot get ernough of them; when I got the guitar I didn't even use the humbucker tones for a day or so because I enjoyed the feel and sound of the split coils that much. 

I loved the Ragnaroks for anything aggressive, and even for very cold, ambient tones, but I wasn't the biggest fan of them for mid-gain, Andy Timmons attempts. They were always just a little bit too hot or compressed, and, while I didn't mind because I use a modeller and it's easy to make a patch just for that guitar, it was still the one thing that I was just a bit frustrating. 

To be honest, I never got to grips with the Silos as much as I'd like to - they were in a guitar that was always problematic, and I only had it for a couple of months after a luthier got it the point where I could play it consistently. I will say, they had significantly better split coil tones than the Ragnarok; probably around the same as the Polymaths. 

For your case, I'd say the best bet would be the Silos. The Ragnaroks don't have what I'd call a upper midrange grind. They were very inoffensive the high mids and treble, which I was very happy with since I practice through headphones. They're great, don't get me wrong, but I don't know if they have what you're looking for. The Silos are definitely fatter, and the high end isn't quite as rolled off as athe Ragnaroks. 

I hope that was helpful!


----------



## aWoodenShip

I think I'm actually gonna pull the trigger on a polymath bridge pickup for an RGA here in a week. After not ordering BKPs in quite a few years, is Axe Palace still the way to go if I'm in the US?


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## katsumura78

Music Store Live for BKP’s. Ask for Ben. Got silos for a baritone and polymaths for a cu24. Send him a screenshot of the build on the BKP website and he’ll send you the cart to pay the tab. 12 weeks later BKP’s in your mailbox.


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## aWoodenShip

katsumura78 said:


> Music Store Live for BKP’s. Ask for Ben. Got silos for a baritone and polymaths for a cu24. Send him a screenshot of the build on the BKP website and he’ll send you the cart to pay the tab. 12 weeks later BKP’s in your mailbox.


Nice thanks for the recommendation. They've honestly got some different pickups in the same configuration I would buy in if they only had tri-tab bases.


----------

