# Is bias fx considered the best for amp plugins?



## thevisi0nary (Aug 11, 2015)

just curious on what everyone's opinion is on this.


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## marcwormjim (Aug 11, 2015)

Best in which respect? I've seen reviewers that went with another plugin based solely on the UI. 

I think it has the potential to be the best - But (as with every product) 99% of the uploaded amp models on the tonecloud are just different stabs at the same five worthless, generic butt-chug metal sounds. You look through Positive Grid's tonecloud and you'll honestly see amps with the following kinds of descriptions: "Amp-matched to Lil' Wayne's live track - Sounds good with Misha Overdrive in front of it and tuned to drop-G#."

I've counted ZERO Allan Holdsworth patch attempts, and three for Eric Johnson that are just JCMs with the treble all the way down.


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## thevisi0nary (Aug 12, 2015)

marcwormjim said:


> Best in which respect? I've seen reviewers that went with another plugin based solely on the UI.
> 
> I think it has the potential to be the best - But (as with every product) 99% of the uploaded amp models on the tonecloud are just different stabs at the same five worthless, generic butt-chug metal sounds. You look through Positive Grid's tonecloud and you'll honestly see amps with the following kinds of descriptions: "Amp-matched to Lil' Wayne's live track - Sounds good with Misha Overdrive in front of it and tuned to drop-G#."
> 
> I've counted ZERO Allan Holdsworth patch attempts, and three for Eric Johnson that are just JCMs with the treble all the way down.



I understand what you mean. When I say best I mean best most realistic sound for a metal tone.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Aug 12, 2015)

^ No.


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## thevisi0nary (Aug 12, 2015)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> ^ No.



Okay what would you use instead


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## kamello (Aug 12, 2015)

thevisi0nary said:


> Okay what would you use instead




TSE X50 all along or Ignite Emmisary. LePou Lextac for some tasty leads and good dynamics


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## Nlelith (Aug 12, 2015)

Best commercial offer? Probably. But freeware still beats it in terms of the sound. TSE 808 v 2 + LePou LeCto + IRs still sound best for me (My IR loader is not freeware, though).

Some might consider that having all fx/amp settings in one plugin is more handy for practicing, if you like to have a lot of shenanigans with fx.


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## Floppystrings (Aug 12, 2015)

I have been using a TSE 808, and Lecto for a long time now. Cab impulses are like 50% of the sound, so that part needs to be dialed in and adjusted carefully (you can ruin the sound with an impulse set too loud, or too quiet.)


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 12, 2015)

To answer the OP question, no. For best Metal tones, TSE X50 v2, Ignite Emissary and Recabinet 4 are way better imho


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## JPhoenix19 (Aug 12, 2015)

For all-around ease of use with quality of sound, I use Guitar Rig 5 with external IRs instead of the stock cabs. I use the Van51 and Rammfire heads almost exclusively.

But more so, I personally like Peavey ReValver 4 for realism. It's quickly replacing GR5 as my favorite amp modeler, I just haven't invested the time into building my live and studio patches yet. Being able to tweak each amp *literally* at the circuit level is really cool. The stock cab sims are also the best I've heard from any guitar modeler I've tried.

I really liked TSE X50 v1, and when I demoed TSE X50 v2 it didn't sound terribly different so I wasn't really motivated to pay for it. For that reason I'd recommend getting v1 if you can find it and it's still free.


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## thevisi0nary (Aug 12, 2015)

JPhoenix19 said:


> For all-around ease of use with quality of sound, I use Guitar Rig 5 with external IRs instead of the stock cabs.
> 
> But more so, I personally like Peavey ReValver 4 for realism. It's quickly replacing GR5 as my favorite amp modeler, I just haven't invested the time into building my live and studio patches yet. Being able to tweak each amp *literally* at the circuit level is really cool. The stock cab sims are also the best I've heard from any guitar modeler I've tried.
> 
> I really liked TSE X50 v1, and when I demoed TSE X50 v2 it didn't sound terribly different so I wasn't really motivated to pay for it. For that reason I'd recommend getting v1 if you can find it and it's still free.



Jw what is the direct function of cab impulses? Like how do they affect the sound? Also How do third party irs differ from stock ones included with modelers?


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## thevisi0nary (Aug 12, 2015)

Thanks for all answers on the thread


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## mikah912 (Aug 12, 2015)

thevisi0nary said:


> Jw what is the direct function of cab impulses? Like how do they affect the sound? Also How do third party irs differ from stock ones included with modelers?



They affect the sound the same way a guitar speaker affects a real amp: It rolls off harsh buzzy highs and rounds out/focuses the tone. A cabinet impulse also includes additional EQing via the simulation of the microphone capturing the sound.

Without them, you just have a harsh buzzy tone directly from the poweramp/speaker out of an amplifier (simulation, in this case).

Third party IRs have historically been created with a lot more detail and care than stock IRs, but that's changing. S-Gear comes with a great set of Redwirez impulses. Recabinet 4 and Revalver 4 offer pretty detailed cab/mic sims via their respective developers, and TSE X50 V2 comes with an awesome selection of third party IRs from Rosen Digital, Fat Lazy Cabs, GuitarHack and others. 

Bias is kind of the odd program out.


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## JPhoenix19 (Aug 12, 2015)

thevisi0nary said:


> Jw what is the direct function of cab impulses? Like how do they affect the sound? Also How do third party irs differ from stock ones included with modelers?



The function of cab impulses? They're a short sound file that captures the eq and reverb properties of a signal chain. So you put the IR in the signal chain right after the amp sim and it makes it sound like it's coming through the power section, speaker cabinet, microphone, and whatever else was captured in that IR. 

The cab sims in GR5 are not very good IMO. Using third party IRs opens up possibilities to use cab sims made by other people. For example, I've been using God's Cab IRs (impulses of a 5150 power section driving a Mesa cab with V30s) within GR5.

GR5 makes you pay for the ability to use third party IRs within the program (you have to buy Reflektor), or use another IR loader after GR in the signal chain in your DAW. ReValver 4 has a really good IR host built-in.


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## JPhoenix19 (Aug 12, 2015)

mikah912 said:


> Bias is kind of the odd program out.



Yeah, Bias pretty much hodge-podged together some of the popular features of other modelers- Bias' cab simulator is straight out of Amplitube.

My opinion about Positive Grid is that it may be the best modeler on iOS, but not on PC/Mac. It's well-marketed and highly endorsed by all the YouTube rockers, but that doesn't make it the best.

Of course, it's all subjective. Good thing it's really easy to demo PC/Mac modelers before you buy them and decide for yourself.


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## mikah912 (Aug 12, 2015)

Bias on PC/Mac has always struck me as half-done/half-finished, whether it's watching it slowly load up the first patch as you boot it up, or the extreme volume jumps between amps and pedalboards on the "Tonecloud" or the way Positive Grid seems unable to clearly explain the differences between their various pricing tiers or why the prices are all over the place.


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## MetalBuddah (Aug 12, 2015)

Best on iOS, yes. Best on Mac/PC, lolnope.


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## JPhoenix19 (Aug 12, 2015)

mikah912 said:


> Bias on PC/Mac has always struck me as half-done/half-finished, whether it's watching it slowly load up the first patch as you boot it up, or the extreme volume jumps between amps and pedalboards on the "Tonecloud" or the way Positive Grid seems unable to clearly explain the differences between their various pricing tiers or why the prices are all over the place.



Their pricing model?

"Well it's on PC now and all the other modelers are about $200 so that's what we will do."

"But it's no different from the iOS version which costs $40!"

"STFU you're fired!"

I doubt they did more than a quick tweak of the code to make sure it works. That's what I think about why it seems clunky on PC/Mac compared to other modelers that were designed for PC/Mac.


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## Drezik27 (Aug 12, 2015)

I might be in the minority, but I really like Revalver. 

I've been able to get some really great tones out of it. I'll admit that it does take a little bit of tweaking. 

There are a few presets that sound fantastic right out of the box though.


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## JPhoenix19 (Aug 12, 2015)

Drezik27 said:


> I might be in the minority, but I really like Revalver.
> 
> I've been able to get some really great tones out of it. I'll admit that it does take a little bit of tweaking.
> 
> There are a few presets that sound fantastic right out of the box though.



Without touching any of the factory presets, I started demoing ReValver by loading an amp and a cab sim. Maybe after that I loaded a TS pedal for a boost.

Based on that, I felt like without a whole bunch of pre- and post-FX it had the best and most realistic overall tone.


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## mikah912 (Aug 12, 2015)

I think they're claiming Bias FX is a "brand new engine" which is why they don't offer any decent crossgrade pricing for people who already fell for the scheme and dropped $74-$174 on Bias Amp Desktop. Of course, when you go to the "Tonecloud" to download pedalboards, all of the amps are the same ones from Bias and sound exactly the same...

I just played with the demo, but yeah...they won't be getting a dime from me for their PC/Mac products.


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## Drezik27 (Aug 12, 2015)

JPhoenix19 said:


> Without touching any of the factory presets, I started demoing ReValver by loading an amp and a cab sim. Maybe after that I loaded a TS pedal for a boost.
> 
> Based on that, I felt like without a whole bunch of pre- and post-FX it had the best and most realistic overall tone.



I agree. We're getting ready to record our first EP so I'm in the process now of building up a bunch patches to use and I am continually blown away by the realism. 

The cleans are by far the best I've heard from an amp sim.


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## jackfiltraition (Aug 12, 2015)

I've been getting some great results from Peavey Revalver as of the last year or two, pretty good collection of stock IR's, definitely one of the better soft sims i've used in terms of realism and feel.


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## marcwormjim (Aug 12, 2015)

JPhoenix19 said:


> [Bias is] well-marketed and highly endorsed by all the YouTube rockers



For the moment. Our favorite youtube gear-whores will have Line 6 pimping Helix through them for a longer period than Positive Grid could afford to, assuming Helix doesn't launch by falling flat on its face.


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## mikah912 (Aug 12, 2015)

marcwormjim said:


> For the moment. Our favorite youtube gear-whores will have Line 6 pimping Helix through them for a longer period than Positive Grid could afford to, assuming Helix doesn't launch by falling flat on its face.



To be fair, tho, Line 6 seems like they've always taken a different tact than that. When the Metal Pack for the HD500 dropped, they just did one video of multiple guys who have used and still do actually use Pods live and in the studio talk about their stuff. It wasn't a blatant "Bias is the greatestestest thing around, and here are some presets/amps I made!" ploy like you see in a lot of the Bias videos. 

Of course, Bias/Bias FX has yet to appear on any _actual_ recordings or gigs from 99.9 percent of the dudes involved. And even among the minors, I just don't think my subscription feed will be littered with "40 Helix amps in 4 minutes" by Jared Dines or "Helix kills Axe-FX!" from (the uncommonly obnoxious) Stevie T. 

I think (and hope) Line 6 will wisely stick with genuine vids from pre-existing artists like John Browne, Paul Ortiz/Chimp Spanner and Stevic from Twelve Foot Ninja.


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