# My dad doesn't like Meshuggah...won't let me buy Koloss.



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 29, 2012)

Now I'm not complaining about my dad. I love him, and we're best friends. He supports me musically and provides me a good home, a car and a comfortable lifestyle.

But he doesn't want me to listen to Meshuggah. He says it just sounds so evil (it does, to be fair) and the only use for Jens's "singing" would be to provoke evil thoughts. Though we do live in the far south and we're all Christians my dad's never really been "that way" about music. 

I was gonna order both of AaL, Koloss and Colors (BtBaM). I ended up only ordering AaL, cuz as soon as he heard the preview for the first song of Koloss, he was like I can't support that. I don't want it in my house.

Anyway, how can I explain Meshuggah and screaming vocals in a way that doesn't make me seem like a satanist and shows my dad the respect he deserves?

Thanks bros! 

Edit: Fyi, I'm 17 next month.


----------



## Vostre Roy (Mar 29, 2012)

If a guitar can be distorted, why can't the vocals be? Its another way of singing, it requires technique and so.


----------



## theleem (Mar 29, 2012)

I'd just pull up some of their lyrics for him. Sure, Jens might scream, but Meshuggah songs have very thought provoking lyrics, none of which I'd classify as Satanic, or even close to it. I guess I could see why he'd be against bands that have overly violent lyrics or something, but just cause it's screaming doesn't mean it's evil


----------



## bigswifty (Mar 29, 2012)

Tell him Meshuggah are Christian (and pray that Odin does not strike you where you stand)


----------



## Overtone (Mar 29, 2012)

Headphones would be a good solution.


----------



## PortalNathrakh (Mar 29, 2012)

theleem said:


> I'd just pull up some of their lyrics for him. Sure, Jens might scream, but Meshuggah songs have very thought provoking lyrics, none of which I'd classify as Satanic, or even close to it. I guess I could see why he'd be against bands that have overly violent lyrics or something, but just cause it's screaming doesn't mean it's evil


 
QFT.


----------



## caskettheclown (Mar 29, 2012)

Show him lyrics and interviews with the band. Tell him he doesn't need to judge a book by the cover.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 29, 2012)

dbrozz said:


> Tell him Meshuggah are Christian (and pray that Odin does not strike you where you stand)



Haha! Nice one.

I don't get why this thread got moved. Seemed pretty general to me? Doesn't bother me though

He said He said "You've been listening to a lot of that...dinosaur singing lately. I don't really like it." Because Eclipse has been out, lol. 

But my buddy bought that...



> Headphones would be a good solution.



Yeah, this, but my speakers are sooo good!

In the mean time the same guy who bought Eclipse has said he'll buy Koloss, buuut that wasn't really the issue.


----------



## Scar Symmetry (Mar 29, 2012)

Showing him lyrics and interviews will quickly reveal to him that they are somewhat anti-Christian... I don't see how that's a good idea.


----------



## caskettheclown (Mar 29, 2012)

Scar Symmetry said:


> Showing him lyrics and interviews will quickly reveal to him that they are somewhat anti-Christian... I don't see how that's a good idea.




Well maybe I shouldn't be posting when I haven't woken up very good yet


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

How old are you OP?

And clearly you've been listening to Meshuggah thus far otherwise you wouldn't want the new album... I'm confused.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Mar 29, 2012)

I was going to say what Dave said. Their lyrics may not be Satanic, but ObZen was somewhat anti-religion and in general they're lyrically very dark. 

Personally, I would explain to him that you do not listen to music for the subject matter, but the sound. You treat it like a roller coaster, you like the adrenaline rush of heavy music and that is all. Would he stop you going on a roller coaster despite there being no threat to your safety? Some people may not enjoy them, but others do. It may not make sense to some but everyone get's enjoyment out of live in different ways and provided that isn't a destructive thing then it's no big deal.

If he has any faith in his own parenting, he should let you enjoy what you want with the trust that it won't negatively influence you. Cushioning kids from the world will not help in the long run if you want them to be well-rounded individuals. It is better to introduce them to things with trust and understanding. If I had a kid and he listened to music that had negative imagery, I wouldn't mind if he were honest and we had an understanding that the content of that music should not be applied to the real world. I don't listen to Cannibal Corpse and want to fuck a cadaver, because it's like watching a horror movie. You remove it from your reality and enjoy it as extreme art.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

Buy the album anyway and put it in a Tom Petty CD cover... Problem solved...

Ask a friend to get the CD and burn you a copy. Label it "Tom Petty" ... Problem solved again...

I'll come back when I have more.


----------



## fps (Mar 29, 2012)

Play him New Millennium Cyanide Christ over and over and over and over and over.


----------



## Nonservium (Mar 29, 2012)

Give him the shugg-face!


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

fps said:


> Play him New Millennium Cyanide Christ over and over and over and over and over.


 
That's more than likely the exact opposite of what needs to happen considering it uses cyanide and Christ in the same phrase...


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (Mar 29, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> Now I'm not complaining about my dad. I love him, and we're best friends. He supports me musically and provides me a good home, a car and a comfortable lifestyle.
> 
> But he doesn't want me to listen to Meshuggah. He says it just sounds so evil (it does, to be fair) and the only use for Jens's "singing" would be to provoke evil thoughts. Though we do live in the far south and we're all Christians my dad's never really been "that way" about music.



You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. I would very gently take some of the suggestions others have mentioned about showing lyrics, explaining. etc, but if he insists just yield to his wishes. He sounds like a pretty involved and cool dad, and you'll be on your own soon when you can do what you feel. One album is not worth messing up a good relationship it sounds like you have with him. At worst, you'll have to listen at a friends house. Give your old man a break on this one - humour him, sounds like he's done alot for you, so help an old man out! thats my take.


----------



## PeteyG (Mar 29, 2012)

Perhaps explain to him that more often than not the thinking, intelligent listeners of music such as Meshuggah, Veil Of Maya, angry screamy music are generally very calm, naturally morally sound people.

What I mean by this is that by listening to music which exercises the angry end of the emotive spectrum many many people, me included, exorcise the somewhat natural human processes of selfish and angry feelings, it relieves the mind of negative stress and stops you from needing to let that frustration out in truly "evil" ways.

It does that for me at least.


----------



## Neil (Mar 29, 2012)

Do what 99.9% of other 16 years olds do when told not to do something... do it any way.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

Trying to show him lyrics and pleading seems like something that would work if he weren't a parent. I know I may be over-generalizing here, and perhaps things don't work this way everywhere (in fact, I know they don't) but in my house if my parents made a decision, no matter how wrong they might be, the decision was made for a reason in their mind and pleading your case and/or providing examples of why theyr'e wrong--whether done respectfully or not--typically didn't go over well and almost always proved futile.

It's situations like this in which I used my own judgement and decided that I could still be the good kid my parents wanted me to be whilst listening to music they don't like. As such, I simply carried on as I'd previously intended. Most of the time they don't care unless they see it anyway. 

After thought disclaimer: I am not trying to tell you to just disregard everything your parents say. I'm just saying that they're not always right and in situations like this, sometimes what they don't know doesn't hurt them. If you take this advice to do anything other than listen to music, that's on you.


----------



## Razzy (Mar 29, 2012)

Put the Meshuggah CD in a Backstreet Boys case. (Isn't that what old people used to do with records they didn't want their parents to see?)


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

^ Or buy it, put it on your ipod and then dispose of the evidence... 

"Yes... I love technology... But not as much as you (Meshuggah), you see... But I still love technology... Always and forever..."


----------



## avenger (Mar 29, 2012)

I support your father in his choice.

haters gonna hate.


----------



## Bigfan (Mar 29, 2012)

Just go out and buy it?


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 29, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Buy the album anyway and put it in a Tom Petty CD cover... Problem solved...
> 
> Ask a friend to get the CD and burn you a copy. Label it "Tom Petty" ... Problem solved again...
> 
> I'll come back when I have more.



Somewhat ironically, my dad does like Tom Petty. 



Nonservium said:


> Give him the shugg-face!



I have that as my background on my computer just for teh lolz. He knows but he gets the joke on that one.



Konfyouzd said:


> How old are you OP?
> 
> And clearly you've been listening to Meshuggah thus far otherwise you wouldn't want the new album... I'm confused.



I'm 17 dude, read the OP. And yes I am a pretty sheltered kid as far as drugs, alchohol and all that crap goes, but that all kind of comes back around to my dad being a good dad. I'm also homeschooled.

To the last two guys, yeah, I'm gonna listen to it anyways (don't think he really cares as long as I don't buy it through him and blast it everywhere), I just want my dad to understand and respect the fact that I can derive enjoyment from it.

Shoutout for PeteyG!


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

I was the exact opposite of sheltered and I turned out pretty damn awesome... I think "good dad" is relative to the child being raised. That said, good dad or not, music doesn't hurt anybody. 



Bob Marley said:


> One good thing about music... When it hits you feel no pain


 
It just seems to me people cause more harm trying to stop the things they don't agree with than they would just letting them be. Especially in matters as trivial as this.


----------



## Origin (Mar 29, 2012)

Sheltered over-parenting is asinine. I wouldn't presume your upbringing is to that insane level though haha, doesn't sound like it.

I'd say just outright defy him, but if he's not a dick in general and this is a small thing I guess that would be throwing gas on it  
Absolutely do not let him stop you though; get it and hide it, or just buy a digital download if you have your own computer! Then hide the files somewhere he wouldn't find if he went all patriot act and violated your right to privacy by searching through your shit, like my parents tried unsuccessfully to do when I was younger. No-one has the right to keep you from music.

POST SCRIPT: I didn't have bad parents either, though that made it sound like it. >_>


----------



## Nonservium (Mar 29, 2012)

There's always youtube. It will all be up at some point if it isn't already. All is not lost.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 29, 2012)

Guys it's not about hearing it at this point.

and I do have some Meshuggah on my computer.


Haha, I just remembered his stories of listening to bands like Boston, Kansas and Rush on a little transistor radio (96.1 FM in the 70's. Atlantian's should know that one) while doing homework and HIS dad coming in and frowning at him.

My dad is a really rational guy, and he REALLY likes to read into music and find the deeper meaning, which he's quite good at. For example, when I was really big into classic rock like The Who, he'd always analyse the meaning of the particular song and talk with me about it.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> Guys it's not about hearing it at this point.


 
Then what IS this about? 

Getting your dad to understand Meshuggah?

I know kids of this generation don't listen to Will Smith, but... "Parents just don't understand."

Which was clearly illustrated in your anecdote regarding your father and his own parents who did the same exact thing he's doing right now... Clearly he learned something from that experience... 

And why could it not be that you find meaning in things beyond words? I don't know a single Meshuggah lyric except "our light induced <something>..." only because I thought it was "I like juice," and had to know if that's what he really said. People like John Coltrane and Mile Davis can get ideas across w/o words at all. In fact, I can hear things in musical phrases (played on instruments) that speak to me in ways I don't think a human being ever could. The way I see it, if you HAVE to look to the lyrics for meaning you're not listening for the right things or the song wasn't written right, but that's just one man's opinion.

Besides that, if you can listen to that and not be influenced by it--you know with it being evil and all--shouldn't that be a rather impressive display of will power on your part? He should be proud.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 29, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Then what IS this about?



Not ruining my relationship with my dad while still listening to music that I like.  


And an open forum for others to talk about similar issues, I suppose. I _don't want it all to be about me..._


----------



## bigswifty (Mar 29, 2012)

On a more serious note, next time the topic comes up between you and your Dad, explain to him that as a musician vocals usually are the last thing that you take note of in a mix.

I get questions all the time about why or how I listen to music with such heavy vocal styles, partially because I dont look like a metal head. I just explain that unlike the majority, my attention turns to the vocals only after I've listened to the guitars, bass, drum and synth tracks at least ten times over.

It's purely musical 
+1 to the Bob Marley quote.


----------



## BlindingLight7 (Mar 29, 2012)

theleem said:


> I'd just pull up some of their lyrics for him. Sure, Jens might scream, but Meshuggah songs have very thought provoking lyrics, none of which I'd classify as Satanic, or even close to it. I guess I could see why he'd be against bands that have overly violent lyrics or something, but just cause it's screaming doesn't mean it's evil


They are on the dark side though, let me exemplify.

The Lyrics for *Swarm *:
​ 

> _[Music: Haake, Hagstrom, Thordendal]_
> _[Lyrics: Haake]_
> 
> Lasciviously they move
> ...


Now, Imagine a Hardcore Christian reading that, they'd probably say, "this song is about anti-christ"

Poopy. I still love the lyrics and Jens' vocals.​


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> Not ruining my relationship with my dad while still listening to music that I like.
> 
> 
> And an open forum for others to talk about similar issues, I suppose. I _don't want it all to be about me..._


 
Trust me. You'll have plenty of experiences much more worthy of ruining your relationship with your father (depending on how you act, I suppose) as life goes on. This is small peanuts. Civil disobedience is typically met better than an all out revolt (hunting flies with honey vs vinegar).

Really though, there is something like this that ALL of us have to struggle with our parents over. For you it's music. For the next kid it's the way he wants to wear his hair. For the next it's the kids he hangs out with. And so and so forth... Handle it like the respecful young adult you appear to be and I don't see how it could ruin anything.


----------



## ilyti (Mar 29, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> Guys it's not about hearing it at this point.
> 
> and I do have some Meshuggah on my computer.
> 
> ...


Your dad has good taste too! Sounds like an all-round awesome guy. I'd say just respect his wishes for now, let him know you understand his reasons and in time he'll probably mellow out a bit more. Listen with headphones if you have to. More important than anything, don't let this issue distance you from your family (and I'm sure that's not the case) because that would only prove his point about the destructiveness of this music. I dig Meshuggah too but I wouldn't advertise it to people I knew wouldn't get it.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

dbrozz said:


> On a more serious note, next time the topic comes up between you and your Dad, explain to him that as a musician vocals usually are the last thing that you take note of in a mix.
> 
> I get questions all the time about why or how I listen to music with such heavy vocal styles, partially because I dont look like a metal head. I just explain that unlike the majority, my attention turns to the vocals only after I've listened to the guitars, bass, drum and synth tracks at least ten times over.
> 
> ...


 
I see it similarly, although I see the voice as an instrument like the rest and as such, I feel that the harsh vocals just suit the mix well sometimes regardless of what they're saying. In fact, for me to know what they're saying at that point would almost be distracting.


----------



## broj15 (Mar 29, 2012)

Just buy it yourself. My parents are super conservative christians. they wouldn't even let me have a blink 182 cd when i was in jr high. I finally got fed up with it and just started spending my whole allowance on music. Now a days my dad is tolerable of it. He realizes that since i'm a musician i gravitate towards the heavier side of things because the technical aspect stimulates my brain. My mom however, has ejected my dying fetus cd while i was driving her to the store so she could listen to coldplay...


----------



## Razzy (Mar 29, 2012)

broj15 said:


> Just buy it yourself. My parents are super conservative christians. they wouldn't even let me have a blink 182 cd when i was in jr high. I finally got fed up with it and just started spending my whole allowance on music. Now a days my dad is tolerable of it. He realizes that since i'm a musician i gravitate towards the heavier side of things because the technical aspect stimulates my brain. My mom however, has ejected my dying fetus cd while i was driving her to the store so she could listen to coldplay...



I'm 23 years old and my mom does stuff like that, lol.


----------



## Overtone (Mar 29, 2012)

I can sympathize with your dad. I do not agree that you shouldn't listen to Meshuggah, but I can respect him for suggesting that you stay away from it. Music does have an emotional content, and it affects a person's mood. The kind of chaotic and combustible energy in Meshuggah is a very intense thing. Compare it to a very uplifting Eric Johnson song for feel. I think it is natural for him to want you to have positive stimuli like that instead of something that brings frantic and perhaps even violent energy. But for me, when I listen to Meshuggah it usually doesn't make me angry or violent, it's more like the sheer hugeness of it is creating a feeling of awe, and it makes me feel charged up to the brim with energy. That feeling obliterates everything else. Just like an EJ song or an album like Ki (Devin Townsend Project) will make me feel serene and centered. But that is when you first put something on. Listening to really heavy shit in the background (e.g. in the car) day in day out definitely makes me feel a little bit more tweaked out and less calm/patient.


----------



## bigswifty (Mar 29, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> I see it similarly, although I see the voice as an instrument like the rest and as such, I feel that the harsh vocals just suit the mix well sometimes regardless of what they're saying. In fact, for me to know what they're saying at that point would almost be distracting.



Hey dont get me wrong, I beleive the voice is definately an instrument in its own right as wel, and in terms of Meshuggah, Jens's voice perfecty suits the energetic vibe of the music. His syllables even accent the pulse of the music. All I was saying is that as a musician, I feel the emotion of a piece through the instrumental works, which can then be accented by vocals. 

Music can speak emotion better than words can describe 

EDIT: Also I feel OP would benefit greatly by explaining other perceptions of the music. Explain that Meshuggah particularily is almost tribunal in their sonic space, meaning that the music sort of synchs to a natural pulse and drives foreward. To anyone who doesn't listen or enjoy music such as this, of course it sounds evil (hell my mom told me that I listen to satan music the other day, jokingly of course) but the bottom line is that the music doesn't create an evil atmosphere. If you want evil, Opeth does it way better in particular moments. With Meshuggah, they're more raw energy or agression. Living in the southern US, are your parents football fans? More violence comes out of that then Meshuggah could ever come close to 

If you want to get epic with your Dad, show him Opeth too. Let him hear how a brilliant mind can go from demonic and sinister to angelic and serene in just 5 seconds!


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

Razzy said:


> I'm 23 years old and my mom does stuff like that, lol.


 
Moms never stop... 

I think that's why dads get more and more apathetic as time goes on.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 29, 2012)

ilyti said:


> Your dad has good taste too! Sounds like an all-round awesome guy.




Haha he does! He's the one who got me into rock at all. Before that I was a musicless zombie.

I just expected he'd be a little bit cooler with new, different things...

I expected a stimulating discussion on this subject, and I sure got one! Thanks, guys!


----------



## squid-boy (Mar 29, 2012)

That's ridiculous! Just ask him if the paintings/illustrations depicting scenes from the Bible are any less provoking in terms of violence, misogyny, or even, at times, 'satanic'. Even that is visual stimuli, which can be much more influential than auditory, even if it is Meshuggah. <3


----------



## Customisbetter (Mar 29, 2012)

Asking your parents to buy you an album? Dude, you have far larger problems.


----------



## Randy (Mar 29, 2012)

> Tar-black ejaculate



That lyric will certainly win him over.


----------



## Hemi-Powered Drone (Mar 29, 2012)

fps said:


> Play him New Millennium Cyanide Christ over and over and over and over and over.



That's probably the worst suggestion on this thread.


----------



## nostealbucket (Mar 29, 2012)

You have a car, don't you? Go buy it.


----------



## BlindingLight7 (Mar 29, 2012)

Randy said:


> That lyric will certainly win him over.


----------



## Interloper (Mar 29, 2012)

I don't understand what the problem is. If you were 12 then I would take your dad's side. Not in not letting you listen to Meshuggah but in that he makes the rules and you must listen but you are almost 17 years old. Old enough to get a job, 12 months shy of being sent to war, tried as an adult, etc. On top of that you sound like a generally well mannered young man. Go buy some Meshuggah for yourself. If your dads feels disrespected by that then your dad needs to lighten up already. Has he heard some of the other garbage that kids listen too these days? They may be a bit anti-religion but they are far from encouraging violence or satanism or whatever else christians are scarred of these days.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 29, 2012)

Customisbetter said:


> Asking your parents to buy you an album? Dude, you have far larger problems.



I was gonna use his amazon account and reimburse him bro.



And Randy, you are my favorite mod. <3


----------



## SenorDingDong (Mar 29, 2012)

Tell him that you respect his rules, but you would like to discuss the matter further and see if he won't reconsider. Explain to him that music in merely an outlet and that it has no effect on your personal views or opinions in general. 

Bring up the fact that many, many less evil-sounding bands have covered themes that shine a bad light on religion, including (my favorite band of all time) The Beatles, and that just because you are listening to the music, doesn't mean that you necessarily _agree_ with what they are saying--or will even be persuaded to--only that you find the music itself enjoyable.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

dbrozz said:


> Hey dont get me wrong, I beleive the voice is definately an instrument in its own right as wel, and in terms of Meshuggah, Jens's voice perfecty suits the energetic vibe of the music. His syllables even accent the pulse of the music. All I was saying is that as a musician, I feel the emotion of a piece through the instrumental works, which can then be accented by vocals.
> 
> Music can speak emotion better than words can describe
> 
> ...



Oh I completely get what you mean. Really I think it's just a strange preference thing bc I usually feel like lyricists try way too hard to be "deep" and that makes a lot of lyrics painful to listen to for me unless I ignore the words and oay more attention to note choice.

That and I tire easily of ppl complaining ab the views presented in a somg as if pro musicians applied to be pro role models but somehow had to accept the consolation prize of doing what they love for a living. 

And does listening to the music they make mean you agree w everything they say? What if Hitler were an ill ass painter? Would recognition of such make me antisemetic? Would you deny his skill for fear that it might? It's just silly... You don't have to agree w someone or even like them as a person to appreciate their talents--whatever they may be.

By the way that wasn't directed entirely at you but the topic as a whole.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Mar 29, 2012)

Look at Johnny Craig as an example - awesome vocalist, terrible person. Easy to appreciate his music, but I'll never be like him.


----------



## The Uncreator (Mar 29, 2012)

Show him Christian Death Metal.

Becoming The Archetype, a lot of their stuff sounds pretty evil, like Necrotiscising fasciitis. Buts its all christian.

Show him that, like others said, it is merely a form of expression. The singers anger, frustration, and rage becomes a non-violent out for you.


----------



## CrushingAnvil (Mar 29, 2012)

I didn't know...




There were *children* on this forum


----------



## CrushingAnvil (Mar 29, 2012)

The Uncreator said:


> Show him Christian Death Metal.
> 
> Becoming The Archetype, a lot of their stuff sounds pretty evil, like Necrotiscising fasciitis. Buts its all christian.
> 
> Show him that, like others said, it is merely a form of expression. The singers anger, frustration, and rage becomes a non-violent out for you.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Mar 29, 2012)

That sounds very Christian...  

Wrath = sin


----------



## Varcolac (Mar 29, 2012)

Play him some beautiful soulful Delta blues, and some bebop jazz. He might like that. My recommendations would be Robert Johnson and Miles Davis.

Then inform him it was made by alcoholic heroin fiends who sold their souls to the devil for better guitar chops. Books, covers, not judging one by the other, etc. If you can come up with a rational argument in favour of Meshuggah's disgusting rhythmic bastardry, any reasonable parent might be willing to back down. Then again, from what's happening on this forum and apparently on TV right now, reasonability seems in short supply.

Or, y'know, headphones. My parents don't understand or care to understand half the music I listen to or play. I was driving my mum somewhere, iPod on random, and Portal came on. She listened for a couple of seconds with a pained expression on her face. I caught her eye as I checked the mirror and changed track. Much as if my father's driving and he puts Celine Dion on, I pull a similar pained expression and he submits to keep the peace. No big deal. It'd be weird seeing my parents at a prog-metal gig anyway. Then again, they never banned me from listening to anything when I still lived at home. Not having ever experienced a religious upbringing, I find it difficult to give any advice. You could always bring up Christcore bands (death growl for Jesus, yeah!)... but from what I've heard they're uniformly terrible breakdowncore with cringeworthy lyrics.

Seriously, headphones.

Caveat: I'm 26 and haven't lived with either of my parents since I first went to university back in 2004. Parents are divorced lapsed catholics.


----------



## CrushingAnvil (Mar 29, 2012)

Varcolac said:


> Play him some beautiful soulful Delta blues, and some bebop jazz. He might like that. My recommendations would be Robert Johnson and Miles Davis.
> 
> Then inform him it was made by alcoholic heroin fiends who sold their souls to the devil for better guitar chops. Books, covers, not judging one by the other, etc. If you can come up with a rational argument in favour of Meshuggah's disgusting rhythmic bastardry, any reasonable parent might be willing to back down. Then again, from what's happening on this forum and apparently on TV right now, reasonability seems in short supply.
> 
> ...



Headphones, buying it on itunes, using a logic based argument about how it's 2012 and music most of the time isn't malevolent in intent, only in theme.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 29, 2012)

Just a little to add:

After I made this thread I went outside and helped my dad with a project outside (reflooring a room in our horse barn). He seemed to be talking in a slightly apologetic tone like he regretted a little telling me what he did. Also he was cutting a piece of plywood with a circular saw and he let go of it with the blade still turning. The freaking saw jumped up and LEAPT at my dad. Missed him by 6 inches...damn.

Naw, nobody in my immediate family likes football much. He isn't even a fanatical christian, he's a very rational one. Not churchy at all. In fact he refuses to even go to church. I go, if not only to ogle the hot chicks.


----------



## samdaman87 (Mar 29, 2012)

Lol poor kid! I feel really bad for him and his situation because it kind of reminds me that I was in that position at one point in my life. My parents hated that I listened to Korn, Slayer, or anything loud and crazy but I hid my cd's pretty well in room so that they would no destroy them in lords name  So I took my CD's always to school and jammed out with my CD player. Eventually my Parents didn't care what I listened to when I hit the age of 18. Duke it out little buddy! Metal will always be around no matter what


----------



## soliloquy (Mar 29, 2012)

same argument i give to people who hate anything islamic, which is:
"if you honestly believe that the very religion, islam, is made to destroy the world, then how can 1/3rd of the world population be muslim and you still live? how/why are they allowing this world to exist?"



my mom used to think i need help as i used to like a song or two of marilyn manson. i told her that i cant listen to pop as there is nothing that it offers me in any way, shape or form. i can be an idiot and numb my brain and listen to everything the world listens to, but its doing absolutely nothing for me, as such, its not inspiring me in anyways. as such, pop is what is depressing me.


----------



## JStraitiff (Mar 29, 2012)

Step 1: Go to the store
Step 2: Locate said album
Step 3: Throw down money
Step 4: Enjoy


----------



## Mason Vickers (Mar 30, 2012)

My parents are still skeptical about extreme music, for pretty much the same reason. But with all that's happened to me (rather shitty situations that forced me to grow up quickly, almost eliminating my childhood), extreme music seems like the only outlet that's ever worked.

I've been around drugs, alcohol, and everything under the sea and always stayed clean. Last year of high school, and not as much as a cigarette has been inhaled. 

Yet I'm still not trusted with alot, and always get skeptics about my music.

None the less, if they're anything like my parents, leave the topic alone and it iwll die off. 

Buy it on iTunes, or whatever you may use. 
see what happens.

If that's too risky, change the song/band names. You may not know what's playing, but you can still get the led out. Spent a ton of time with Behemoth saved under Tom Petty, my friend


----------



## ittoa666 (Mar 30, 2012)

Just buy it.


----------



## Explorer (Mar 30, 2012)

I like that your dad buys stuff for you, and previews it as well.

I like that you both respect each other as well. 

As I'm sure you've seen with other kids, there is nothing which can undermine a trusting relationship like dishonesty. Be sure to ignore those who probably haven't thought through the consequences of breaking such trust. 

Incidentally, arguing that you don't care about the message of the music, but only the trappings, might not be the best course.


----------



## Prydogga (Mar 30, 2012)

Customisbetter said:


> Asking your parents to buy you an album? Dude, you have far larger problems.




I take it you don't live in a small town with no music stores that would ever carry physical copies of Meshuggah CDs, when I was turning 17, I had to get my parents to buy physical CDs online with me giving them cash, because that was the only way. You can't make a paypal or a credit/debit card being underage....


----------



## sevenstringj (Mar 30, 2012)

Didn't you learn anything from the Chinpokomon episode of South Park?


----------



## shredguitar7 (Mar 30, 2012)

http://youtu.be/4A_tSyJBsRQ

Just show him this. How can anyone not love them ?


----------



## Scar Symmetry (Mar 30, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> To the last two guys, yeah, I'm gonna listen to it anyways (don't think he really cares as long as I don't buy it through him and blast it everywhere), I just want my dad to understand and respect the fact that I can derive enjoyment from it.


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Mar 30, 2012)

I still don't understand what the issue is here. Do you want to share your love of a particular artist with your father? convince him that fart vocals aren't Satan's telephone? Do you only want to listen to the music? Or are you trying to rebel? If it's the last one, you're doing a terrible job of it. If you just want to listen to the music, don't let the old man hold you back. If you want him to somehow respect you, then you're going to need to show him that you can hold a reasoned opinion that won't land you in some stupid predicament (a rare commodity among most people your age), or he needs to catch up with the twenty-first century and realize there is no magical sky fairy. I don't know, dude, this thread reminds me of a sentiment expressed in a Gil Scott-Heron poem (here). In other words, you not having the new Meshuggah CD is probably the least of your problems and comes across as a bit contrived.


----------



## Necris (Mar 30, 2012)

I've heard plenty of music written by devout Christians that carries a level of menace that puts anything Meshuggah could ever hope to do to shame.

For example: (I've been on a bit of a Messiaen kick lately. )


Olivier Messiaen was a devout Roman Catholic and the organist for La Trinité _Church_ in Paris for over 60 years.


----------



## Herb Dorklift (Mar 30, 2012)

Tell him to stop being a douche.


On the other hand, it's his house, his rules. Even if they are ridiculous.


----------



## Varcolac (Mar 30, 2012)

Necris said:


> I've heard plenty of music written by devout Christians that carries a level of menace that puts anything Meshuggah could ever hope to do to shame.
> 
> For example: (I've been on a bit of a Messiaen kick lately. )
> 
> ...


----------



## Necris (Mar 30, 2012)




----------



## VBCheeseGrater (Mar 30, 2012)

Explorer said:


> As I'm sure you've seen with other kids, there is nothing which can undermine a trusting relationship like dishonesty. Be sure to ignore those who probably haven't thought through the consequences of breaking such trust.
> 
> Incidentally, arguing that you don't care about the message of the music, but only the trappings, might not be the best course.



+ 1 on this. Meshuggah wont bail you out of jail, bind you out of a jam, have your back in a dispute, or love you. Granted it might help get through some of this stuff, music is always there for that.

Just try to remember whats important - 1 album, or the relationship with your dad. I would try to think of it as doing him a favor. You know the music is fine, but it never hurts to help a fellow man out, especially one you love. He may even be like "nevermind - it's cool", after seeing that you handle it maturely and not making a huge deal out of it.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Mar 30, 2012)

vbshredder said:


> + 1 on this. Meshuggah wont bail you out of jail, bind you out of a jam, have your back in a dispute, or love you. Granted it might help get through some of this stuff, music is always there for that.
> 
> Just try to remember whats important - 1 album, or the relationship with your dad. I would try to think of it as doing him a favor. You know the music is fine, but it never hurts to help a fellow man out, especially one you love. He may even be like "nevermind - it's cool", after seeing that you handle it maturely and not making a huge deal out of it.




I understand the sentiment here and think that it's important to preserve trust in loving relationships, but dude here is his father's son - what decent human gives up on their teenager when they don't obey their every rule? Let's not be silly. I'm not suggesting that he should rebel against his father's rules, but doing what pretty much any other teen would do when they're told not to do something won't likely find him disowned.


----------



## avenger (Mar 30, 2012)

SMOKECRACKANDWORSHIPSATAN.

Clearly.


----------



## kevdes93 (Mar 30, 2012)

impending doom is a super christian band but theyre still heavy as balls. i remember wheni was 10 my dad wouldnt let me buy AC/DC back in black haha. if you buy it yourself maybe he'll loosen up like my dad did. i bought it myself and all was good in the world.

come to think of it, my mom didnt let me buy a blink 182 CD till i was in high school....


----------



## Blake1970 (Mar 30, 2012)

My dad kind of had issues with Iron Maiden.


----------



## Overtone (Mar 30, 2012)

My big showdown happened with NoFX. I bought the album heavy petting zoo, which features a man fondling a sheep on the cover. I remember that I hid the liner notes because they had some photos with titties/butts, but the disc itself was printed with the cover. My mom somehow saw the CD itself and yelled at me then stomped on it! I'm pretty lucky next to my sisters though... they had their Beatles records smashed just for a little misbehaving.


----------



## Ibanezsam4 (Mar 30, 2012)

there is a really easy solution that has been presented here already, its called headphones. now i had decent speakers at one point in my younger life so i could listen to music, but when i started hearing metal i realized two things: 1) this shit is freaking awesome 2) if my mom hears me blasting reign in blood (it was the most evil song i had ever heard of at the time) she would flip. 
So i decided to have my cake and eat it to by using the cheap ass headphones that came with my sony portable cd player (didn't have a computer). 

after the A7x's City of Evil came out, i freaking loved it, however my parents wouldn't appreciate the sex based lyrics, so i was courteous and listened with headphones on. 

moral of the story, if you do not come from a musically tolerant family (i turned my dad around eventually) that doesn't appreciate screaming, be polite and not blast it in your room. also unless you're actually playing the CDs through a sound system (bless your heart if you do), if you are ripping your tracks as MP3s they're are still gonna sound like shit MP3s through your speakers (too compressed, shit bass, ect). in which case use those crappy ipod headphones. 

be considerate of other people's tastes and and enjoy yourself without having your musical choices questioned by your parents. it worked for me pretty well, and now i have long hair, go out to shows frequently, and my mom likes to look at the shirts i buy... they'll accept your tastes eventually, but dont turn them off by blasting them all teenage rebellion style.. it dont work


----------



## DLG (Mar 30, 2012)

Neil said:


> Do what 99.9% of other 16 years olds do when told not to do something... do it any way.





my mom threw out my danzig and my morbid angel tapes, just bought them again and hid them better two weeks later.


----------



## ElRay (Mar 30, 2012)

JStraitiff said:


> Step 1: Go to the store
> Step 2: Locate said album
> Step 3: Throw down money
> Step 4: Enjoy



Not always that easy. I lived in rural America. My only source for "modern" music was something like RCA Music Club. And with that, I still had to give my folks cash to write a check for me. Yes there's the internet, but unless the OP wants to limit himself to free music, he's still fiscally tied to his parents' account(s).

Local store selections were horrible (80's Top 40 Dominated). Plus, I really couldn't get to one by myself and, at that age, I wasn't sneaky enough to buy something and get it home unnoticed.

And my folks wondered why I would scour jukeboxes anytime we were at a restaurant that had one. 

It's insane how many movies I watched, how many tapes & LP's I borrowed, etc. when I got to college.

Ray


----------



## VBCheeseGrater (Mar 30, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I understand the sentiment here and think that it's important to preserve trust in loving relationships, but dude here is his father's son - what decent human gives up on their teenager when they don't obey their every rule? Let's not be silly. I'm not suggesting that he should rebel against his father's rules, but doing what pretty much any other teen would do when they're told not to do something won't likely find him disowned.



I see your point. What i'm saying is, there's give and take in every relationship - or any healthy one. Like you say -something like this should not be making or breaking anything - this is relatively inconsequential, and a good opportunity to give a little. Pick your battles, basically.


----------



## ilyti (Mar 30, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> Just a little to add:
> 
> After I made this thread I went outside and helped my dad with a project outside (reflooring a room in our horse barn). He seemed to be talking in a slightly apologetic tone like he regretted a little telling me what he did. Also he was cutting a piece of plywood with a circular saw and he let go of it with the blade still turning. The freaking saw jumped up and LEAPT at my dad. Missed him by 6 inches...damn.
> 
> Naw, nobody in my immediate family likes football much. He isn't even a fanatical christian, he's a very rational one. Not churchy at all. In fact he refuses to even go to church. I go, if not only to ogle the hot chicks.



I'm glad it's going better for you. I can tell you value your relationship with your dad more than most people, and he respects you. As Explorer said "there is nothing which can undermine a trusting relationship like dishonesty."

The worst thing you could do is buy the CD, and then hide it from your dad, because if he found it, that would indicate that you're being dishonest, and it would "prove" in his mind that such music is a bad influence on you. And you'd probably feel bad about dishonesty in the first place right? It's not worth the stress.

Take an honest evaluation of what's more important to you. Do you want to listen to music that could distance you from your family, or in the very least, make them worry about you? (Even if you know it won't change anything about you.) My mom wasn't too happy with the kind of music I listened to as a teenager, probably worried that it would affect my morals, and make me want to hang out with bad people. But now that I'm in my 20s, enough time has passed to prove that my music wasn't a negative influence on my life or morals, and she never really needed to worry in the first place. Although I have quit listening to a few bands, because it did start to bother my conscience, and I could see her point of view on things. It took me a long time to actually see her point of view though.

So I'd say, stay clear of the music that would be "most offensive" to your dad, trying to see it from his point of view. If you still want to listen to some bands your dad doesn't approve of, that's your decision. You may need to take time and grow as a person to see if that music defines you, or is just a passing thing. You may end up liking some of the "Christian" bands because the lyrics appeal to you more. But never expect your dad to see them as better because of their lyrics. He probably just doesn't like Meshuggah because of how goddam noisy it is! And those other bands would be just as noisy!


----------



## squid-boy (Mar 30, 2012)

I told my roommate about this (although she doesn't listen to Meshuggah herself, she does have to hear it from my headquarters) and she told me to comment with: 

Poop in his mouth.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 30, 2012)

vbshredder said:


> this is relatively inconsequential,



This is true. I wanted to start a discussion on how the "normal" world perceives our music. Since this is a subject most members of SS.org can identify with, I figured most people could weigh in. I think Overtone really hit the nail on the head with "My big showdown...". That's what this thread is about. Metal vs the world. 

Now I'm weighing up whether or not to show my dad this thread... 



As far as buying it in a store (which I don't want to do anymore anyway)...yeah, the most underground album I've ever seen in a store is Colors by BtBaM.




Haha last week my friend was over and he said something controversial. I said "Dude...You've got to be just...opening my mouth and takin' a dump in it."


Today the subject came up again. My dad said to my mom "*my name* wanted to buy some album with....the demon eats my skin? What was it son?" "The demon's name is surveillance ." "Yeah, anyway I didn't let him buy it. I told him Pastor Chuck wouldn't let you play guitar for them anymore." "You're right. good" says my mom.

Now, he was definitely screwing with me then, but he wasn't when I was about to order it. lol


----------



## Explorer (Mar 31, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I understand the sentiment here and think that it's important to preserve trust in loving relationships, but dude here is his father's son - what decent human gives up on their teenager when they don't obey their every rule? Let's not be silly. I'm not suggesting that he should rebel against his father's rules, but doing what pretty much any other teen would do when they're told not to do something won't likely find him disowned.




I'm not suggesting that a parent would disown a child for being a liar, or for being dishonest in other ways. 

However, there is definitely a difference between love and trust, and you seem to have missed what I was emphasizing in terms of preserving. 

----

At some point, my sibling was talking with someone who said that my mother was in the wrong. My sibling stated that, although my mother is sometimes a bit emotional and sometimes exaggerates, I also had told my sibling what happened, and if I said something had happened a particular way, I was always meticulous and careful to never say something untruthful or unfair. The other person was miffed, but my sibling wouldn't budge. 

I hate to suggest that someone's view of the world might be mistaken, but when someone asserts that everyone else would be dishonest in a particular circumstance, I believe it might reflect more what is in the heart of the person making the assertion than what is in the hearts of all those people about whom the assertion is being made. 

I understand the need for addicts to say that everyone is an addict in their own way, or for strippers and prostitutes to say that all women are whores to get what they want. I understand the need, but I don't agree with the sentiment. 

And *I don't agree with the sentiment that all (or even most) teens are dishonest. *


----------



## incinerated_guitar (Mar 31, 2012)

Tell him the reason they scream is because metal vocals are supposed to be another percussive instrument in the band. Thats the way meshuggah described it, and thats the same way I describe it


----------



## JStraitiff (Mar 31, 2012)

If your dad monitors the music you listen to then dollars to donuts he also monitors your interntet usage. He probably has already seen the thread.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Mar 31, 2012)

This reminds me of the time my parents found out that my favorite band at one point was The Black Dahlia Murder, my dad's been a Christian Preacher for about 21 some years so you can probably see how this would affect him. I had Nocturnal and Miasma circulating in my car's stereo regularly. And I drop my mother off to work, or she'll borrow my car to go out when I'm at home doing something. The got the CD out and investigated the band, the lyrics, and the song content, and confronted me about it later that evening. I just told them that this is the kind of music I enjoy actively listening to, and that I'm really not going to stop listening because you seem to disapprove of what the contents of the song and lyrics are. Thankfully they haven't bothered me anymore because of this, because it honestly doesn't affect me, I only ever smile, go to church whenever I can with them and follow my faith very closely. It's taken quite some time for them to realize that listening to what I do won't affect me, but it's happened. Of course, this has been escalating to me finally just saying I'm really not going to stop, first it was my first CD Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory, Then Killswitch Engage, and gradually building up to my current day musical tastes. I'm 20 now, and this started way back in like 05' for me. 

So just give him some time, if he can tolerate some of the other stuff you listen to then don't worry about it. Go get an iTunes Gift Card and buy Koloss on iTunes, it's an amazing album.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Mar 31, 2012)

JStraitiff said:


> If your dad monitors the music you listen to then dollars to donuts he also monitors your interntet usage. He probably has already seen the thread.



Well...he does monitor my internet.

A program called Safe Eyes...


----------



## tacotiklah (Mar 31, 2012)

I have mixed feelings on this. Sure, you gotta keep an eye on your kids, but at the same time, being up in every last aspect of their life undermines their ability to make decisions for themselves; a crucial life skill.

My parents (even my dad, who is the full embodiment of an asshole, trust me on this) knew better than to try to tell me what music to listen to because they knew damn well I wouldn't listen and eventually learned to just let me be on the matter. Granted my dad grew up around music and my mom is a pretty relaxed person overall, I think that helped me out too. They knew I was the least likely person to go on a school shooting rampage after listening to Metallica for a while. I didn't even get into more extreme forms of metal until I was in my early twenties, so at that point it didn't even matter to them anymore; I was a grown adult and was gonna listen to wtf I wanted to.

I feel that religion and media sensationalism plays such a huge part in the general public trying to stomp down on metalheads, and I'm actually quite saddened by it. Columbine did nothing to help this, but I don't blame the music. Disturbed kids were disturbed long before they ever listened to metal. Censoring metal would have done nothing to improve those kids' mental well-being. 

Still I applaud OPs dad for giving enough of a fuck about him to at least keep an eye on him. OP is better off than a lot of the adolescents that browse the internet these days.


----------



## All_¥our_Bass (Mar 31, 2012)

Vostre Roy said:


> If a guitar can be distorted, why can't the vocals be? Its another way of singing, it requires technique and so.


 This.



theleem said:


> I'd just pull up some of their lyrics for him. Sure, Jens might scream, but Meshuggah songs have very thought provoking lyrics, none of which I'd classify as Satanic, or even close to it. I guess I could see why he'd be against bands that have overly violent lyrics or something, but just cause it's screaming doesn't mean it's evil


 But especially THIS.



dbrozz said:


> If you want to get epic with your Dad, show him Opeth too. Let him hear how a brilliant mind can go from demonic and sinister to angelic and serene in just 5 seconds!


This too.


----------



## Bigfan (Apr 1, 2012)

Just found this on quickmeme:


----------



## KingAenarion (Apr 1, 2012)

broj15 said:


> My mom however, has ejected my dying fetus cd while i was driving her to the store so she could listen to coldplay...



I can understand that... as much as I'm a metal head, I'm probably more likely to enjoy Viva-la-vida as an interesting musical album than straight up Death metal (and I'm the touring sound guy for a Death Metal Band)


----------



## tacotiklah (Apr 1, 2012)

Bigfan said:


> Just found this on quickmeme:




I made that yesterday morning and was gonna post it here, but damn thing wouldn't let me save it as anything other than a .gif


----------



## Riffer (Apr 1, 2012)

ghstofperdition said:


> I made that yesterday morning and was gonna post it here, but damn thing wouldn't let me save it as anything other than a .gif


 Same thing happened to me when I tried to save some. What I did was just do a screenshot and paste it in paint and trim the screen shot to just the Meme part and save it that way.


----------



## Alpenglow (Apr 1, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> Well...he does monitor my internet.
> 
> A program called Safe Eyes...



I would try to explain to them why you love metal and how you focus on the music as a whole and not the lyrics. Maybe explain how their lyrics are thought provoking and not satanic at all if he asks about specific subject matter. Give an example or two (I'm assuming you've already heard plenty of Meshuggah). I'm grateful my parents are okay with me listening to pretty much anything.

As for Safe Eyes, I can help you with that. I had that on my computer when I was younger (8-13). When I was 13, I found a way around it. 
I found a way to disable it on my computer. My parents realized my brother (3 years older) and I were growing up and that in combination with the fact that the program wasn't catching anything we were doing prompted them to just remove it from our computers. 
My brother also had a different way around it that required re-installing a seperate instance of the program or something, I don't remember. It disabled Safe Eyes for 2 hours at a time and then he had to re-click disable again.

That being said, my parents have always been pretty laid back and know I'm not a bad kid. I don't really look up anything weird online, I just didn't like not being able to go to ebay and some other stuff like that. It really depends how much your parents trust you and how laid back they are.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Apr 1, 2012)

Bigfan said:


> Just found this on quickmeme:



Wow! I am a meme!

That doesn't look like me at all...


----------



## -42- (Apr 1, 2012)

Don't defend the band, defend yourself. You have the emotional and mental stability (I would assume) not to turn into a raging nihilist when you listen to them, so I fail to see the problem. Lots of metalheads get their panties in a twist when they try to defend the artistic intent of a some band they like, that should have no impact on whether or not you should be allowed to listen to it. He should understand that you are still you, regardless of the music you choose to enjoy.


----------



## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Apr 1, 2012)

If I was a guest in someone's home I wouldn't play Meshuggah on their hi-fi. If you're not into it, only few artists can compare in aggravation value. 

At least they can cause a strong reaction for the uninitiated, unlike most acts...


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Apr 2, 2012)

I feel like we should get Bulb or even someone FROM Meshuggah on here to weigh in on this, lol.

But IDK if anyone from Meshuggah has ever been a regular here.


----------



## Necris (Apr 2, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> I feel like we should get Bulb or even someone FROM Meshuggah on here to weigh in on this, lol.
> 
> But IDK if anyone from Meshuggah has ever been a regular here.


 Why exactly is Bulbs input so necessary to this thread? I sincerely doubt he has any personal insights on the music that are so profound in comparison to the others already posted that they would change your fathers mind on their own.

Also, no members of Meshuggah post here.


----------



## leonardo7 (Apr 2, 2012)

Sounds like your Dad knows that if you own that album, that he will then have to hear it too. Seems like thats issue number one for him. Issue number two is that he 'thinks' that it will provoke unnatural and unpleasant thought patterns for you and be counterproductive to the harmony and energy he hopes to have flowin through you and in his household. Thing is that you probably listen to it for the music, the polyrhythms and guitar stuff mostly. At least you can hang out with a close friend who has the album and maybe listen to it and hang out at their house a little?


----------



## chickenxnuggetz91 (Apr 2, 2012)

i live in the bible belt too. i went through the same crap you did with my mom. although she let me listen to whatever i wanted she still thought it was satanic. that hurt. i'm not a christian but i'm certainly no satanist. i don't think you can convince your dad to think differently. old people especially parents are stuck in their ways. lol. maybe when you're having dinner speak in metal vocals "PLEASE PASS THE SALT!!!" to show that a majority of metal lyrics aren't promoting satan.


----------



## Cynic (Apr 2, 2012)

Ahhh, I remember when my mom hid my Atreyu and Seether albums between the recliner cushions a few years back. Then one day I looked at that woman in her eye sockets and told her that I purchased those CD's and you took them without permission; that is stealing. I don't walk in to your room and take your TV or alarm clock, do I? She stopped. Everything went beter in exeption!!


----------



## renzoip (Apr 2, 2012)

Try this:




If that doesn't work, then resource to this:


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Apr 2, 2012)

Necris said:


> Why exactly is Bulbs input so necessary to this thread? I sincerely doubt he has any personal insights on the music that are so profound in comparison to the others already posted that they would change your fathers mind on their own.
> 
> Also, no members of Meshuggah post here.



I just know that Bulb seems to like Meshuggah and he always brings teh lulz.


I think my mom and dad believe that I've had a shorter fuse recently and they might feel that all that loud crazy metal music's doing it to me. Honestly though, I'm 17. What did they expect?


----------



## Acatalepsy (Apr 2, 2012)

If there's one thing I hate, it's people telling me what to do or what to think. I personally think your dad is well out of line telling you that this isn't appropriate for you or whatever. I think you are fully entitled to disobey him if that's his attitude. I never had to deal with this particular problem with my parents, but had plenty of similar confrontations. In my view, respect works both ways, and parents should respect your right to form your own taste and personality. Fuck all this appeasement talk.


----------



## Guitarman700 (Apr 2, 2012)

His house, his rules. When you move out, you can do whatever you want.


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 2, 2012)

Everyone is telling this kid to go behind his back and get it or whatever, perhaps he respects his dad too much to do that? It's his house, he pays the bills and a kid has to respect that. Of course, you need to have that both ways and be able to have a chance to air your opinions, which is sounds like your dad allows. 

When he's 18 and earning then it will be a different story.


----------



## Guitarman700 (Apr 2, 2012)

Actually, it's his house, his rules. End of story. Don't like it? Get a job. Move out. That's the way it works. I've seen so many kids complain about their parents choices, and I tell them the same thing; Their house, their rules. Move out, get a job, support yourself. As long as your parents support you, you follow their rules. End of story.


----------



## Jakke (Apr 2, 2012)

His house, his rules. That does of course not mean that he cannot be reasoned with, try mentioning that Meshuggah are not deadbeat losers, Umeå is a university city (even if Uppsala is waaaay better), and that they are academics. These guys are not idiots

I cannot really identify with this issue myself, I grew up with rock music (my father was a rock drummer in his youth, before *his* conservative mother put a stop to it), and even if my father has not always understood my choices in music when I was young, he has always respected them. (It has also helped that I basically bought my own music from the age of twelve) He is even more happy now that I have started to drift towards hard rock again

*EDIT* And what has Bulb to do with this? He has no influence over your dad (to paraphrase coppercab, HE'S NOT GAWWDD!!!), and your father with 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% certainty does not know who he is. It would basically hold the same leverage as if I told him to do something, except for me bursting into flames for being an evil apostate.


----------



## JStraitiff (Apr 2, 2012)

Necris said:


> Why exactly is Bulbs input so necessary to this thread? I sincerely doubt he has any personal insights on the music that are so profound in comparison to the others already posted that they would change your fathers mind on their own.
> 
> Also, no members of Meshuggah post here.



I think it would be something like this:

"uh.. well thats a good question uh.. your dad uh.. like.. uh.. djent!"

haha <3 ya bulb!


----------



## samdaman87 (Apr 2, 2012)

I don't think your Dad is scared for you he is more scared about himself. He just doesn't want to go all amityville horror in your house while listening to Koloss as his background music. It's your Dads prob and not yours little bro.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Apr 2, 2012)

Jakke said:


> *EDIT* And what has Bulb to do with this?



Why did Piers Morgan interview Mike Tyson about the Trayvon Martin case? For a celebrity's perspective on an issue they may or may not have an interest in  . I only said that for the lolz and I like Bulb. He fist bumped me last time Periphery were in Atlanta.


Edit: I like how I was neg repped for liking Bulb.  lol


----------



## JamesM (Apr 2, 2012)

Reeeeeeeeeaallllyyyy late to the thread but...

Tell your dad to go eat poop.


----------



## Guitarman700 (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm not saying that he shouldn't take the point up with his father, simply reminding people that until you're an adult, your parents are legally your guardians.


----------



## djpharoah (Apr 3, 2012)

Guitarman700 said:


> His house, his rules. When you move out, you can do whatever you want.



This man speaketh the truth!

 at all these teenage angst threads - when the **** do you kids get done with spring break?

OR

You can be like those other clowns in that other thread and go beat up your mom/dad - that'll show them


----------



## fwd0120 (Apr 3, 2012)

Great advice in this thread actually! Some of it not so, but most of it very good.

I'm actually in Albany, Ga - and My parents are kinda cool, they support me a lot... funny thing is, we're Christians, but my mom is okay with Meshuggah . No comment from my dad, but he used to like NiN.

The problem though is... Even though I appreciate Meshuggah and all their tr00 djenty goodness... I couldn't listen to a whole album... Yeah, flame on... But I can only take that stuff in small doses, especially on my Hi-Fi (where it does sound epic, I must add). I am fine with the vocals, but my brain likes them more than my ears. I really appreciate the talent and discipline for everybody, including the vocalist... but honestly, I can only take it only a song or 2 at a time.

Now, this is not useful to the OP, but just my :2cent:. And just to say how cool my mom is.... Like, Vai sat next to her and they were grooving to Angel Vivaldi or something... it was strange. 

Hey, OP, Do you have a pandora or youtube station? those are helpful to listening to stuff.


----------



## Jakke (Apr 3, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> Why did Piers Morgan interview Mike Tyson about the Trayvon Martin case? For a celebrity's perspective on an issue they may or may not have an interest in  . I only said that for the lolz and I like Bulb. He fist bumped me last time Periphery were in Atlanta.



1. I would not consider Bulb a celebrity, he is a popular musican (well deserved as well), but celebrity implies some sort of wide-spread recognition. How many outside the ERG (or djent) community knows who Bulb is?

2. What kind of perspective would he have on this issue that has already not been put forth?

3. To reitterate my previous statement: HE'S NOT GAAAWWDD!

I know you were only half serious, but I'm a pathological enquirer


----------



## DLG (Apr 3, 2012)

it's true that it's his house/his rules, but that doesn't stop most teenagers from not following these rules on a regular basis, at least when I was growing up. 

I wasn't a huge rebel or anything, but chugging beers in the woods, smoking cigs behind quick check, listening to evil shit, skipping out of bible study or using it to stare at girls' tits, that's what being 17 was about for me.

kids are pillow soft these days


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 3, 2012)

Guitarman700 said:


> I'm not saying that he shouldn't take the point up with his father, simply reminding people that until you're an adult, your parents are legally your guardians.



I agree, but also not treating your kid like an adult and stopping their growth as a person is not going to help them become an adult any easier. Obviously you want to protect them, but you have to give them the freedom to grow as well otherwise you're just hindering them through their teenage development, which is an awful thing for a parent to do. Not that this necessarily applies here on such a trivial matter though.


----------



## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Apr 3, 2012)

Thank God, my parents have always been open. They may not like any music with screams xD So I just listen to Animals as Leaders with them  They don't mind one bit.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Apr 3, 2012)

djpharoah said:


> This man speaketh the truth!
> 
> at all these teenage angst threads - when the **** do you kids get done with spring break?
> 
> ...



So at what point did I seem angsty in this thread?

Maybe it was when I said I wanted to talk to my dad about it respectfully? 

Edit: I love my dad. This is seriously the only thing we're ever at odds over. And some times over what cars we think look hot or not.

Since AaL just arrived and my dad's heard it and liked it, We're gonna listen to it next time he rides with me somewhere.


----------



## soliloquy (Apr 3, 2012)

humm...well...you COULD kind of do the reverse on him. he wont let you listen to metal, which is fine. to get back to him, wear size 60 pants, and wear em at your knees, with an XXXXXXXXXL shirt and act all gangster around him and talking about shoving gats in shawotys asses and what not...

i'm sure your dad would be like 'fuck this shit! i want my son back!'


----------



## vampiregenocide (Apr 3, 2012)

soliloquy said:


> humm...well...you COULD kind of do the reverse on him. he wont let you listen to metal, which is fine. to get back to him, wear size 60 pants, and wear em at your knees, with an XXXXXXXXXL shirt and act all gangster around him and talking about shoving gats in shawotys asses and what not...
> 
> i'm sure your dad would be like 'fuck this shit! i want my son back!'



Yeah, and puts even more pressure on what he can and can't listen to. probably not the best idea.


----------



## tacotiklah (Apr 3, 2012)

Best solution I can think of:
Suck it up for a year, then go buy whatever you want since you'll be an adult. Koloss will still be around then. There's no rule that says you HAVE to rush out and buy it now. As an added benefit, the cd will probably be less expensive in a year's time too.


----------



## Jakke (Apr 3, 2012)

You can listen to it on Spotify


----------



## that short guy (Apr 3, 2012)

Ok this is far too many post for me to read in the short time I have to be on here today so if someone has already said this sorry, but as far as getting him not to judge the music, point out Mathew 7:2. and then explain to him all the reasons that you like the music.


----------



## tacotiklah (Apr 3, 2012)

Yeah I wouldn't recommend using misquoted biblical verses that have been taken out of context, and twisted to suit your own pursuits. There's enough of that in the world already and it's turning everything to shit. 

Just be mature about it and wait. No one knows what could happen in a year. Maybe he'll change his mind on his own and maybe he won't. Earning your parent's respect is a larger priority than buying a cd.


----------



## djpharoah (Apr 3, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> So at what point did I seem angsty in this thread?
> 
> Maybe it was when I said I wanted to talk to my dad about it respectfully?
> 
> ...



I didn't read your thread in it's entirety because I just grouped it with the other "My parents won't _________" threads that we've recently been having on here.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Apr 3, 2012)

Fair enough.


----------



## Prydogga (Apr 4, 2012)

Necris said:


> Olivier Messiaen was a devout Roman Catholic and the organist for La Trinité _Church_ in Paris for over 60 years.



Dude, YES. Messiaen wrote way darker and evil themed music than what Meshuggah evokes in me. The Symphony for the End of the World is great, and carries some very dark sounds, and the concept of course, is very heavy, and written by a Christian, of course.


----------



## Fiction (Apr 4, 2012)

@Pry,

I've had a PayPal since I was 15 and debit since 16 and buying online, I mean if you like meshuggah, there's more important things than terms an conditions, what's life without a little rule breaking 

Inb4 lookslikewegotabadass.jpeg


----------



## Bekanor (Apr 4, 2012)

Ahem.


----------



## CrownofWorms (Apr 4, 2012)

The only other option



Go to a store, gmaps one, or find a friend that would hide it or hide it yourself.Don't have a store,ask our friend to order it(Thats what I was going to do with CC the Wretched Spawn, then I bought it).

















or Wait


----------



## casketshrine (Apr 5, 2012)

Love how Meshuggah is deemed 'evil' just cause of the obvious artistic expression while there are just as 'evil' or much worse lyrical themes in other kinds of music.

No offense to anyone who's not a Meshuggah or a metal fan.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (Apr 5, 2012)

casketshrine said:


> Love how Meshuggah is deemed 'evil' just cause of the obvious artistic expression while there are just as 'evil' or much worse lyrical themes in other kinds of music.
> 
> No offense to anyone who's not a Meshuggah or a metal fan.



Such as the aptly named "You a stupid hoe"


----------



## Jakke (Apr 5, 2012)

Something struck me, what is so terrible about satanism anyway? Isn't the US founded on freedom of religion? I mean, the rights that allow your father (and I would assume you as well) to be christian also applies to satanism. Not that Meshuggah are satanists, but still

A part of me wants you get a record with Dark Funeral.. Seems like your dad could benefit from hearing truly satanic music (not only satanic, but extremely anti-christian as well)


.. May I also recommend De Mysterii Dom Sathanas by The True Mayhem


----------



## Whitechapel7 (May 2, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> Now I'm not complaining about my dad. I love him, and we're best friends. He supports me musically and provides me a good home, a car and a comfortable lifestyle.
> 
> But he doesn't want me to listen to Meshuggah. He says it just sounds so evil (it does, to be fair) and the only use for Jens's "singing" would be to provoke evil thoughts. Though we do live in the far south and we're all Christians my dad's never really been "that way" about music.
> 
> ...



tell him that you realize he is just trying to watch out for you and that you respect that, but in the same sentence say that you believe you are old and mature enough to choose what music you listen to without any negative effects, and let him look at the lyrics, i personally have not gotten too into Meshuggah, but looking back on the lyrics, they aren't really that bad from what i interpret. if he still wishes to keep it out of the house, respect him, possibly come to and agreement of some kind. be respectful, dont talk to him about it if hes in a less than good mood, and definitely dont be confrontational about it. hope it helps and best of luck


----------



## ManuelB (May 2, 2012)

Buy a Bieber album and put that Meshuggah disc in it. But wait! Maybe it's a signal for being homosexual. 
Anyway: Why does your father think that scream vocals are satanic?! It would be the same if he thinks that long hair is for girls and Bieber for the gays and girls... Maybe the last one has a little truth in it.

Stop thinking stereotyped! We live in fu**ing 2012!
And when I was 17... I just listened to whatever I wanted and didn't give a  about what my parents wanted me to listen to.


----------



## The Buttmonkey (May 2, 2012)

I still listen to it on Spotify. I just wanted a physical copy for my car.

He says "You can hear the evil when they scream. It just can't be any anything positive!"


----------



## Guitarman700 (May 2, 2012)

The Buttmonkey said:


> He says "You can hear the evil when they scream. It just can't be any anything positive!"



Now that's thinking logically!


----------



## highlordmugfug (May 2, 2012)

^^


----------



## The Buttmonkey (May 2, 2012)

Funny. he says the same about Bon Scott...


----------



## Imbrium998 (May 3, 2012)

You seem like you are well spoken (written) and you have a good head on your shoulders. It sounds like you don't want to ruin a good thing in that you have a good working relationship with your family, specifically your dad. I would frankly be surprised if you were going to rebel from what he asked you to respect the line that he drew. I know that must be frustrating indeed, especially where you have an interest in the music and you don't appear like you would take it literally. (I have no way of knowing this of course, but I can only take a guess)
So...I think that you have already made your choice by sticking with what you are being asked.

I must say that I applaud your dad for at least knowing or having an interest in what you are listening to. 99.9997% of the parents out there dont have a clue and don't CARE to know. I am not knocking parents in general, but I can be glad for you that your dad even knows what is going on musically. 
I think that your best route might be to let him understand what appeals to you when it comes to them. This may or may not work, but for him in his mind he just hears dissonance and it implies a negative message. Its just his way of reacting to what he things is going on. My son is 18 now and he is free to make choices for himself, but I also know that I built him up in his life to have a good set of values, and I respect that there are things that he might like that I may not. This is not something that I plan to judge him on. I think in time, your dad may get used to the idea and it will all be water under the bridge.

If he allows you to educate him about where you are coming from...you might just succeed. Give him a chance at it (without beating the issue of course) Let it sit for a bit and if the timing is right...test the water again.

I just hope that "christian values" are not getting in the way of an informed mind for your sake.


----------



## Imbrium998 (May 3, 2012)

OR.....find the muzak version of the album????


----------



## highlordmugfug (May 3, 2012)

Play him this:


and this


and this cover


How evil could they possibly be?


----------



## Vinchester (May 3, 2012)

My parents always think computer game is going to make me a murderer. I have been playing them for 15 years and my kill count is still 0.


----------



## highlordmugfug (May 3, 2012)

Vinchester said:


> My parents always think computer game is going to make me a murderer. *I have been playing them for 15 years and my kill count is still 0*.


You must really suck at Black Ops.

Alternative comment:

Pussy.


----------

