# Intepreting Cynic's Lyrics



## AbstractAsylum (Jan 6, 2010)

I like to find the meaning behind my bands' lyrics, but there's not much out there about Cynic. songmeanings.com barely has anything on them, and the research I've done has only given me a little bit.

For example, I found out in The Unknown Guest the chant "Om shrim maha 
Lakshmiyei swaha om" is a Sanskrit mantra. In the song Adam's Murmur, the lyrics also mention a Sanskrit Alphabet. There are some clearer lines too, like "For every blade of grass, the universal path.", but they are scarce. Paul has mentioned meditation in interviews, but I'm not sure what type of meditation, because there are many. Zazen? I'm not sure.

Anyway, I'm very interested in learning exactly what it is these guys are trying to convey. Does anyone have any helpful ideas, links, or interviews that may clear stuff up?

Thanks ahead of time.


----------



## EDG3CRUSHER (Jan 6, 2010)

any songs in particular?


----------



## BlindingLight7 (Jan 6, 2010)

He meditates with lots of fucked up drugs, claims to see aliens/entities from other galaxies. So he's most likely making an interpretation of his experiences.


----------



## AbstractAsylum (Jan 6, 2010)

Adam's Murmur and Integral Birth are the two I'd like to know about the most.


----------



## splinter8451 (Jan 6, 2010)

I too want to know the meaning of Adam's Murmur, that is my favorite song!

EDIT: Found some good stuff. Nothing related to Traced in Air but...



> VEIL OF MAYA
> 
> The lyrics to this song come from Emerson's poem of the same title, and while it is entirely possible to write a thesis on the meaning of this song, I will try to sum it up as briefly as possible. According to ancient Hindu thought, Maya essentially means "illusion", and the Veil referrs to the veil of illusion that cloaks us all, thus creating a barrier between us and God's vision of perfection...or in other words, reality.
> 
> ...



Whether he comes up with this music on drugs or not I really think he is on a different plane of existence then us mere mortals  . He just seems to have a higher understanding of things in his interviews.


----------



## Fler (Jan 7, 2010)

Well, I don't think there's any denying Paul knows his way around the psychedelic dimensions. The dude does spend far, faaaaar more time meditating and such though, which ultimately with patience produces more or less the same psychological effects. You'll find all the lyrics in Cynic are based around spirituality, oneness, zen, etc. Overall very wholesome and positive thinking music.


----------



## dmguitarist99 (Jan 8, 2010)

So....what drugs does he do? Paul really doesn't seem like the type to be around it.

But if it can help me create the type of they do then...


----------



## splinter8451 (Jan 9, 2010)

dmguitarist99 said:


> So....what drugs does he do? Paul really doesn't seem like the type to be around it.
> 
> But if it can help me create the type of they do then...



Yeah I never really thought he would do drugs either but the consensus seems to be that he does so


----------



## phantom911 (Jan 9, 2010)

At least he doesn't seem to be the kind of person who abuses them


----------



## Randy (Jan 9, 2010)

Pretty sure he's known to be a pot smoker. One of the interviews he did after they recorded TIA, he mentions wanting to give his ears a break for a little while, then going back and listening to the album while he was high. I'll see if I can dig up the clip.


----------



## stryker1800 (Jan 10, 2010)

while i think its cool to want to know the original artists interpretation of their songs i find a much deeper meaning to the songs when i interpret them for myself. Cephalic Carnage's song "dying will be the death of me" is one of my favorite songs for just that reason. I later found out it was making fun of emo music, and that just made it even better


----------



## S-O (Jan 10, 2010)

Didn't think Paul was much of a toker, but hey, different paths to the same goal  Maybe he throws in some shroomage or peyote for some fun.

I love Cynic, probably my favorite band.


----------



## HamBungler (Jan 10, 2010)

Paul has probably done, at some point, Pot, DMT and Acid, all drugs that are commonplace with complex music such as this. I would not go out to say "Go and do them as much as possible and you'll be just like Paul," but if you're going to go that route, do your research. Not everyone needs drugs to make music like this, just look at Frank Zappa. I'm quite experienced with psychedelics and I still don't know much shit, though I can say I feel a lot more learned than I had previous. Paul's been around a long time so he's had lots of time to fill his mind with as much knowledge as possible, which is one of the bigger factors of understanding such topics.


----------



## whisper (Jan 10, 2010)

I remember reading in the Focus liner notes, he thanks Paramahansa Yogananda and the Self-Realization Fellowship. Of course, this was many years ago - he could be a totally different person now. Or in a totally different place in his life.


----------



## Arteriorrhexis (Jan 10, 2010)

HamBungler said:


> Paul has probably done, at some point, Pot, DMT and Acid



I saw Cynic here last night and I'm pretty sure he said they were tripping on acid and I even asked several of my friends I was with to see if I heard correctly and they said they heard it too.


----------



## Varcolac (Jan 10, 2010)

Reading the hippy new-age idiocy that Masvidal says in those quotes actually makes me like Cynic a little less. "A visual meditation I would use to heal myself"? "We are all connected to this state of creation"? Put down the bong for a second and listen to yourself. 

Don't get me wrong, it's still awesome music. Bach and Fripp influences are made of win and awesome. But Paramahansa Yogananda? I'll pass, thanks.

Yes, I hate mysticism. Guess I'm too much of a cynic to believe in the power of the celestial mothership.

Instant Rimshot


----------



## MFB (Jan 10, 2010)

How the fuck can Paul play this shit while tripping?  Truly god-like.


----------



## AbstractAsylum (Jan 10, 2010)

Varcolac said:


> Reading the hippy new-age idiocy that Masvidal says in those quotes actually makes me like Cynic a little less. "A visual meditation I would use to heal myself"? "We are all connected to this state of creation"? Put down the bong for a second and listen to yourself.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it's still awesome music. Bach and Fripp influences are made of win and awesome. But Paramahansa Yogananda? I'll pass, thanks.
> 
> ...




Honestly, zen buddhism is just as crazy as any other religion. Look at Catholicism...tons of rituals, rites of passage, ceremonies, weekly gatherings...some religions have polygamy, and some have ridiculous rules. Honestly, zen is probably the least crazy. All you do with zen is...sit. No church, no prayer, no mantra or rituals needed.

When I hear Neal Morse singing about how Jesus gave him a lifeline...right down to his sooooooul, I die inside a little bit.]


Thanks for some clarification guys, I really appreciate it. Paul is a very chilled, interesting person and I wanted to learn a little more about what he's really trying to say.


----------



## wannabguitarist (Jan 10, 2010)

Just get really high and listen to Traced in Air on repeat. It will eventually click


----------



## Varcolac (Jan 10, 2010)

It's not Zen he's talking about, though Zen can be _plenty_ crazy when you get down to it... 

Zen/Chán &#31109; Buddhism's a purely East Asian development. From a cursory glance at wikipedia, this Paramahansa Yogananda dude seems to have been a Hinduism-inspired Indian yogi. The talk of (capital "G") Gods and creation would also indicate a more Hindu approach to meditation than the Buddhist one. It's a bit like the whole Beatles going to India thing: yogis, meditation, drugs... However, it's all pretty irrelevant as I find most meditation talk, no matter the theological structure behind it, to be utter nonsense. Hell, I find every single religion to be nonsense as well. 

I'm with you on the Neal Morse thing. Guess I just expected a little more from Cynic.


----------



## S-O (Jan 10, 2010)

Meh, while I am atheist, to say I don't see bits of truth in the religions of the world would be a lie.

I have been reading Autobiography of a Yogi off and on, I like it.

He (Yogananda) seems to be more about down playing the current life in respect to the larger picture and order of the universe, that we are all actors reincarnated as another actor playing out to God's script.

I am not down for anthropomorphizing God, I feel that if there is one, it would be more along the lines of the Logos or the Tao, a path and logic behind the workings of the universe, that are not a conscious entity as we understand what being is.

I feel that we are all one in this uni(multi-?)verse and every universe before and after this one, what our science calls the big bang I see as the chronic oneness that we all are and while we feel we have but one life, and we do in a sense (that sense being the current form we take is temporary), we are all made up of building blocks, legos so to speak, that are just rearranged into a star or rain drop, a constant flow and changing of being.

So, I try to treat people with kindness, knowing that we are actually from the same oneness, and I think this oneness is what most religions call God.

That being said, I think most religions are crazy  But i don't hate them for it, it would just be like hating myself.

I am technically straight edge, but I don't really find my thinking parallel with the -core kids. But I respect everyone's choice to do whatever they want and smoke whatever they want. Personally, I don't know how comfortable I feel doing drugs to be creative. Not that Paul does this, but I just mean the suggestion do drugs to sound like Cynic. But hey, If my favorite bands Cynic and Meshuggah toke it up, maybe I will rethink. Shrooms were the only drugs I ever felt like doing, but I can't find any, so the desire subsides.


----------



## JoshuaLogan (Jan 10, 2010)

Varcolac said:


> Reading the hippy new-age idiocy that Masvidal says in those quotes actually makes me like Cynic a little less. "A visual meditation I would use to heal myself"? "We are all connected to this state of creation"? Put down the bong for a second and listen to yourself.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it's still awesome music. Bach and Fripp influences are made of win and awesome. But Paramahansa Yogananda? I'll pass, thanks.
> 
> ...



Experience a heavy psychedelic trip first and then get back to us. It has a way of changing people... making them more peaceful and introspective, and often they find some form of spirituality that sticks with them for a long time afterwards. It's a very humbling experience... both beautiful and incredibly overwhelming at the same time. 

Many people making music like this have experience with psychedelics... I'm pretty sure that Fredrik Thordendal and Devin Townsend, just to name two more, have used psychedelics heavily in the past, and you can bet it affected their music in one way or another.


----------



## Justin Bailey (Jan 10, 2010)

Randy said:


> Pretty sure he's known to be a pot smoker. One of the interviews he did after they recorded TIA, he mentions wanting to give his ears a break for a little while, then going back and listening to the album while he was high. I'll see if I can dig up the clip.





one of my heroes


----------



## splinter8451 (Jan 10, 2010)

^

 

Epic.


----------



## Rick (Jan 11, 2010)

I'll have what he's having.


----------



## JoshuaLogan (Jan 15, 2010)

Justin Bailey said:


> one of my heroes




Just watched that interview for the first time. Paul seems like a really interesting person. Very intelligent and insightful.

It's 5:40 AM and I still haven't slept. Instead I just listened through Traced in Air for the first time in a few months and read through the lyrics. Very beautiful and inspirational...


----------



## ArtDecade (Jan 15, 2010)

"Focus - to me - is like 4 musicians trying to get hurt." 
Classic!


----------



## Arteriorrhexis (Jan 15, 2010)

ArtDecade said:


> "Focus - to me - is like 4 musicians trying to get hurt."
> Classic!



I think he said "trying to get heard"


----------



## S-O (Jan 15, 2010)

Arteriorrhexis said:


> I think he said "trying to get heard"



Indeed.


----------



## ArtDecade (Jan 15, 2010)

... Oh bummer. Damn cymbals have destroyed my hearing... Oh well. Rawk!


----------



## JoshuaLogan (Jan 15, 2010)

ArtDecade said:


> "Focus - to me - is like 4 musicians trying to get hurt."
> Classic!



Hearing fail. 

Even if you didn't hear it correctly, don't you think "heard" makes much more sense?


----------



## MerlinTKD (Jan 15, 2010)

Paul is yogic; if you check out his websites (for Cynic and Portal in particular) talks about it. Yogic practice isn't religious, but it is spiritual. The root concept is to free a person from the illusions that run our lives without us thinking about them. The ideas and practices are things that fit easily into any religion... or none at all. It's about helping each person be a happier and better person.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Jan 15, 2010)

Yeah, the lyrical content is spiritual in context. I'll also point out that it has nothing to do with Religion... Religion being basically the opposite of Spirituality in many regards.



Varcolac said:


> Reading the hippy new-age idiocy that Masvidal says in those quotes actually makes me like Cynic a little less. "A visual meditation I would use to heal myself"? "We are all connected to this state of creation"? Put down the bong for a second and listen to yourself.



There's nothing wrong with what he's saying. You'd be surprised to find that you really can do healing work on yourself.. of course, with such cynicism and negativity regarding the idea, its doubtful that you'd see any results right off the bat.


----------



## HammerAndSickle (Jan 15, 2010)

But in my opinion (and the opinions of many) religion OR spirituality are in opposition to logic and reality 

I agree with the guy who said it made him sort of lose respect for Cynic. Both the drugs and the mysticism don't click with me and the way I see music (as an attainment of humanity, not of gods or outside forces). But I'm able to disconnect the music with the persona as I will, and I definitely love the music they've created.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Jan 15, 2010)

HammerAndSickle said:


> But in my opinion (and the opinions of many) religion OR spirituality are in opposition to logic and reality



The idea is that spirituality has everything to do with reality and logic, or rather than reality and logic are part of spirituality. Making that general/assumptive of a statement about something that can't be defined (when its defined, we call it Religion) is asinine.


----------



## HammerAndSickle (Jan 15, 2010)

I don't think you understand the definitions of religion or spirituality. The concept of a "spirit" or "soul" goes against all conventional models of physics and human anatomy. There is no empirical evidence that reality and the human mind is any more than the sum of simple material processes.

Which isn't to say I don't like to believe in some overarching philosophical ideas. Just that any idea of a soul or a "system" in nature like qi, chakra, etc, even an undefined natural system of the kind Paul espoused in that interview or that Townsend believes in, has no physical or logical basis.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Jan 15, 2010)

What you mean is that no such concept has been embraced by mainstream empirical thinking.


----------



## HammerAndSickle (Jan 15, 2010)

If you phrase it like that, I suppose so. But also that it has been disproven in many forms by basic logic and evidentiary support. "Empirical" meaning "by evidence" so... without evidence what is there but blind faith? Or, the religion you have decried in the past. 

What I'm saying is that for these ideas to be significant, they must affect the observable, material world in ways observable to humans. Through application of the scientific method we can prove (yes, with margin of error, but let's say "reasonable doubt") that there is no observable implications of many of the spiritual theories that have been proposed. Therefore, spirituality may exist but simply in a way that impacts nothing in our physical world, is immaterial, irrelevant, and therefore meaningless.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Jan 15, 2010)

That's simply a matter of opinion, as tests of logic can be used to support spirituality... and in most cases, even the most absurd of ideas.

The fact of the matter is that human experience is NOT simply confined to material reality and in fact, most of the "meaning" we recognize is in our observations, which by themselves can be thought of as immaterial. Our emotional experiences, although easily disregarded, are also an immaterial reality that usually shape our world on a daily basis. So these concepts of spirituality are not insignificant simply because they have no immediately noticeable physical implications - that's a matter of opinion.


----------



## HammerAndSickle (Jan 15, 2010)

I fail to see any logic in ignoring the data at hand. I see your point on our perceptions influencing our observations, but that alone does not make them immaterial. All the evidence currently points to nothing more than biological, physical, chemical processes (known as "material") influencing everything. You know every thought or emotion you have is a chemical or electrical impulse in your nervous system, right?

Let me propose the idea that there is a God out there somewhere, nonexistent in physical terms but somehow existing under another definition. If he did not impact the universe in any way, was not knowable to humans through evidence, logic, or any sort of esoteric method to come to a definitive conclusion on his existence or attributes, and had no purpose or effect outside of humans wondering if he existed, what relevance does it have? It doesn't impact our lives therefore whether it is or isn't "real" is a nonissue. 

Similarly, belief in spirituality has been proven to have no effect outside of psychologically. Studies on prayer have come back inconclusive, faith healing has been debunked, all studies in a variety of fields attempting to confirm the existence of a soul have failed or "backfired" depending on the motivation. So with no real evidence of spirituality besides semantic arguments within our own minds _in my view_ it can be summarily discounted as relevant.

Of course it all comes down to opinion on _interpretation_, but the data is the only factual information to go by and it all leans strongly against any immaterial force.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Jan 15, 2010)

HammerAndSickle said:


> You know every thought or emotion you have is a chemical or electrical impulse in your nervous system, right?



Take this concept and apply it to all of your experience, whether external or internal. While there is measurable chemical and electrical activity, the cause of those impulses is up for debate. The same thing can be said about all experience.

Arguing with the rest of what you said would just be circular on both our parts. However, I will mention that I'm not religious in any way.


----------



## HammerAndSickle (Jan 15, 2010)

I will agree it's a circular debate in some ways. But I find it highly interesting 

To me, what you just said sums up my points. Seeing as all of life, from a tiny spark in our head causing a thought to a tiny spark in a distant star causing a chain of reactions, is simplified to physics, I find that disproves all spirituality. I see that everything can be explained by natural material processes and therefore no need for an ill-defined immaterial. I also don't see this as conflicting with anything else. Simply because it's physical doesn't devalue any creation of human thought or experience.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Jan 15, 2010)

I'm chiefly saying that what you're saying is true, and that this universe, to me, IS spirit. All of these complex processes... who needs a boogie man? I feel that we're only just beginning to understand this universe and its most basic principles/properties, making this journey of ours a spiritual one.. we learn more about ourselves as we learn about our universe, right?


----------



## S-O (Jan 15, 2010)

HammerAndSickle said:


> I fail to see any logic in ignoring the data at hand. I see your point on our perceptions influencing our observations, but that alone does not make them immaterial. All the evidence currently points to nothing more than biological, physical, chemical processes (known as "material") influencing everything. You know every thought or emotion you have is a chemical or electrical impulse in your nervous system, right?
> 
> Let me propose the idea that there is a God out there somewhere, nonexistent in physical terms but somehow existing under another definition. If he did not impact the universe in any way, was not knowable to humans through evidence, logic, or any sort of esoteric method to come to a definitive conclusion on his existence or attributes, and had no purpose or effect outside of humans wondering if he existed, what relevance does it have? It doesn't impact our lives therefore whether it is or isn't "real" is a nonissue.
> 
> ...



Meh, while I am atheist, science has not always been right. And on another note spirituality, IMO, is more related to philosophy.


----------



## JoshuaLogan (Jan 15, 2010)

The songs Celestial Voyage and The Space For This seem very obviously about the psydedelic experience to me and how he views it as a positive spiritual/healing experience. Keep in mind "healing" doesn't have to be in a physical sense... it can easily be referring to mental and/or emotional healing... learning who you are and what you're all about, learning to really be honest with yourself, and really actually like yourself as a person, etc....

I really like the concept behind Nunc Stans. I admittedly hadn't heard the term before (atleast that I could remember, anyways), and so I looked it up. It's a latin phrase that means "the eternal now" and was a popular idea/concept in Medieval times. It has to do with living in the present, day to day, and timelessness in general.... I kinda relate it to art and music and how what we create is timeless, outlasting our own lives. I think it's a really cool concept to write a song about.

8. Nunc Stans

Hey comrade
What will it be like on the day that we face our mortal life
We're all given the misfortune of loss
But that's a gift we call impermanence

We don't own our work
We don't own the Earth at all

We're eternal Nunc Stans soldiers
The eternal warriors

We're accountants in the firm of life
Entrusted with a body, heart and mind
Hey comrade, did I love well?
Have I learned to live moment to moment?

We don't own our work
We don't own the Earth
We don't own our minds
We don't own anything at all

We're eternal Nunc Stans soldiers
The eternal warriors

It was not death
It was not life
It was love...



HammerAndSickle said:


> I will agree it's a circular debate in some ways. But I find it highly interesting
> 
> To me, what you just said sums up my points. Seeing as all of life, from a tiny spark in our head causing a thought to a tiny spark in a distant star causing a chain of reactions, is simplified to physics, I find that disproves all spirituality. I see that everything can be explained by natural material processes and therefore no need for an ill-defined immaterial. I also don't see this as conflicting with anything else. Simply because it's physical doesn't devalue any creation of human thought or experience.



You are aware that there is all sorts of physics behavior we still know very little about, right? Especially on a subatomic level. The subatomic world does not behave like our world or follow the same laws of physics. Have you read much about quantum physics? I think it's safe to say there is still a ton of mystery regarding human life, our world, our universe, etc. We've learned a lot, but most likely have only scratched the surface in the grand scheme of things.

By the way, I'm not religious at all either. Maybe slightly spiritual (and that definitely probably has something to do with psychedelics heh), but that's more in a philosophical sense... growing up, trying to be a better person, knowing yourself, living day to day in a way you can be proud of. I think that is similar to how Paul Masvidal feels and thinks, although he does drift off to certain concepts and ideas I'd associate with Hinduism, which I don't really have a lot of interest in.

But honestly, if you've never experienced psychedelics, you just wouldn't understand. and please, quit referring to them as simply drugs, like you're lumping them in with destructive substances like cocaine, opiates, etc. Completely different in every imaginable way... Sure, it's really easy to write it off as some hippie bullshit, but if you have no experience with it at all, you really don't know what you're talking about... I think anyone who has the courage and mental/emotional strength to try a fair size dose of psilocybin or LSD should try it out atleast one time in their life (preferrably twice, as each and every time can be drastically different). Most people I know who've tried them are far from your typical burnt out, junkie, addicts... actually quite the opposite, some of the most intelligent and creative people I've ever known... many of them artists


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Jan 16, 2010)

^At that, I've had several astonishing and enlightening experiences through meditation and dream work/projecting that were quite like psychedelic experiences, and these were brought on without the use of chemicals. Some chemicals can induce these states, and its interesting to experiment with them then later try to regain such a state with just your mind (something I don't do, however, as I'm an advocate of naturally induced states of consciousness).


----------



## stryker1800 (Jan 16, 2010)

HammerAndSickle said:


> I don't think you understand the definitions of religion or spirituality. The concept of a "spirit" or "soul" goes against all conventional models of physics and human anatomy. There is no empirical evidence that reality and the human mind is any more than the sum of simple material processes.
> 
> Which isn't to say I don't like to believe in some overarching philosophical ideas. Just that any idea of a soul or a "system" in nature like qi, chakra, etc, even an undefined natural system of the kind Paul espoused in that interview or that Townsend believes in, has no physical or logical basis.



I don't mean to bring back an old point, but i feel the need to point out that if you read into modern physics such as string theory. Though it is at this point unprovable using the scientific method does leave room for things existing in the material world that could be perceived without sensitive enough equipment, for lack of a more fitting term, as some super natural phenomenon. For instance accord to current string theory gravity is believed to be caused by a physical particle, a graviton which is transferred between objects and the amount put out by said object is determined by its mass. would it not be too much of a stretch for the possibility of a particle that could create an effect that seems to people like chakras, karma, or other such phenomenon believed to be spiritual or religious exclusively. 

I haven't thought into it enough to really come with a theory as to how they might work but for chakras i would imagine it would have to do with the electrical impulses in the nervous system and your active thought on a specific body part, the third eye for instance causing a slightly different current, indecipherable on anything but the microscopic scale such a particle might exist on, thus causing this particle to accumulate at the third eye creating phenomenon that spiritualists would call opening the third eye. That area of the brain, your frontal lobe is associated with higher brain function as well as long term memory, which would be mental processes strongly connected to the higher consciousnesses you would achieve by opening the third eye.

This is just a random thought of mine that might add some interest to the conversation. And to just be on record i have never done any psychedelics, and am not a full believer anything but science though am very interested in the eastern religious and spiritual belief systems as well as theoretical physics and trying to connect the two is rather fun.

PS a point that just occurred to me is that ancient societies used spiritual belief to explain things that at the time could not be explained any other way, like the rising and setting of the sun was at one time explained by Apollo flying through the sky on a chariot, while now we know the sun isn't whats moving, we are. so who's to say that karma isn't a real phenomenon we just haven't been able to consistently recreate it much less have the necessary equipment to explain it.


----------



## JoshuaLogan (Jan 16, 2010)

Adam Of Angels said:


> ^At that, I've had several astonishing and enlightening experiences through meditation and dream work/projecting that were quite like psychedelic experiences, and these were brought on without the use of chemicals. Some chemicals can induce these states, and its interesting to experiment with them then later try to regain such a state with just your mind (something I don't do, however, as I'm an advocate of naturally induced states of consciousness).



I've heard a number of people talk about meditation and "getting there" without the use of psychedelics, but I think they're talking more about the state of mind (euphoric, calm, peaceful) it puts you in rather than anything resembling a real full blown psychedelic experience. I just don't buy into meditation all that much. I understand the idea, and I think it could be a great way to improve one's patience and tolerance... I just don't really believe what you're talking about is possible to the extent that people like to say it is. I've heard about it a lot in relation to previous Salvia users... although I didn't particularly enjoy Salvia at all when I tried it. Seemed very dark, bizarre, and confusing compared to the more traditional psychedelics... no rush of euphoria or astonishment... more just a a scared, paranoid, confused feeling as you wonder what the fuck is going on lol, and then it's gone a few minutes later... but then again Salvia supposedly has somewhat of a reverse-tolerance, so that may have something to do with people claiming meditation can get them there (as less and less of the chemical is needed over time)... Don't get me wrong, I don't completely 100% rule it out or anything. I just find it hard to believe...


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Jan 16, 2010)

Well I've also used psychedelics years after having success through meditation. There's more to it than just meditation.. it starts venturing more into the territory of Astral Projection, but even that is an over-generalization in my opinion. Either way, I assure you that I've had some very real psychedelic experiences prior to using chemicals.. in fact, because of that, I've never gone back to using chemicals because I felt like I lacked control, as opposed to the experiences brought on by meditation techniques.


----------



## AbstractAsylum (Jan 16, 2010)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Well I've also used psychedelics years after having success through meditation. There's more to it than just meditation.. it starts venturing more into the territory of Astral Projection, but even that is an over-generalization in my opinion. Either way, I assure you that I've had some very real psychedelic experiences prior to using chemicals.. in fact, because of that, I've never gone back to using chemicals because I felt like I lacked control, as opposed to *the experiences brought on by meditation techniques.*



Which techniques?


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Jan 16, 2010)

There's a billion techniques you could use... doing a Google search on Astral Projection techniques, or buying a book on something similar, would be a good start. Once you start getting a feel for all of it, you sort of guide yourself once you quiet down. I don't know how to describe what I do other than that I get myself to the point where I can leave my body as well as "this reality" simultaneously.. and it actually feels very similar to a physical movement, but you're aware that its entirely nonphysical. 

I know,  right? 

I've never been able to talk someone through the process because I don't know how to describe it from this perspective. The closest I've gotten was helping my ex-girlfriend to get into a pretty deep meditation.. but then, when you're in a close relationship like that you're able to connect much more easily.


----------



## SpaceAboveSky (Nov 14, 2012)

I love Cynic, my favorite band, and I love Paul one of my favorite guitarists.

But in that interview, he seemed like he could be diagnosed with something... I dunno speaking problems/autism? I don't mean offense of course... and the way the world is now it seems like something is wrong with you if you AREN'T diagnosed with some sort of illness...

What I'm saying is, Paul is obviously a genius, and sometimes genius's function on an odd level on things we consider "normal" behavior. Maybe the drugs have caused him to talk slow. The way he speaks is slow (relaxing too) Paul's awesome, just thikning out loud guys.



I'd also like to add,

http://f0.bcbits.com/z/74/34/743456788-1.jpg

These creatures, I know people who do DMT and when they saw this album that I had they said they've seen creatures EXACTLY like this in DMT trips. DMT isn't just a drug if that's the kinda guy you are. It completely changes you (I don't suggest doing it, I don't suggest ever doing drugs) but I think a lot of this stuff is DMT influenced perhaps. It's spacey cosmic eastern induced mysticism. Yes... It also has connections to astral projection and channeling etc. Scary stuff.


----------

