# Diezel VH4 (plus Engl SE comparison?)



## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 15, 2007)

Well, I have found a mathematically achievable way of owning one without ending up bankrupt, so I am looking into opinions. THe amp has been fascinating me for a while now, so if anyone has played one, then what are the opinions on it? I like a fairly tight tone but with life to it, so a tad bit of looseness if that makes sense. I also like dirt, in the sense I do not like overly clinical sounds.

The other amp I know is within the bounds of financial possibilities is the Engl SE. 

So.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 15, 2007)

Haven't played a VH-4 personally but I hear really good things from some, not so great things from others so I guess it's an amp that some find pleasing to the ear and others not so much.  All the recordings I've heard of VH-4s sound awesome but who knows how much of that was post-recording editing.  

The SE is a beast of an amp.  I really like mine, I think it has more features than I use right now, but it's an awesome amp no doubt.  Based on your description above, have you given the Invader 100 (not the 150) a test drive yet? Might fit the bill AND be a little cheaper than both of those amps.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 15, 2007)

Problem is finding a place that stocks them, and my absolute hatred of playing gear in shops! I think I have not really ever tried out any amp I've bought properly, just gone off recommendations really. Unless there's somewhere with sound proof booths that has a good selection of amps that I don't know About in London?


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## Nick (Oct 15, 2007)

iv heard its got a fairly 'over processed' sound. Similar i suppose to the description given of the powerball by a few people on here, that it lacks warmth.

I guess a lot of people will like the super high gain, tight response that, that sort of sound offers. Iv never tried one (i hear you have to pay to be in the same room as one) so im only going on reviews iv read. 

Where can you get hold of them and where can you try them out in the UK?


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## HighGain510 (Oct 15, 2007)

I feel that man!  I can't really help you in the London department as I've never been to Europe!   When I think of VH-4 high gain I think of Adam Jones of Tool.   When I think of Engl SE I think of Muhammed from Necrophagist or Steve Morse.  I know those guys use those amps, but again since I haven't played the VH-4 in person I can't really compare the two unfortunately.  Wish I knew someone in the area who had one, I could A/B them and let you know what I thought but I don't think I know of anyone down here who has one...


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 15, 2007)

THe Diezel amps? Doug (Blackmachine) has a few, so I can ask him if i can noodle on one  

I remember loving the sound of his 8string fanned fret through one, but not sure if it was the guitar, the pickups, or thye combination of all 3 that made it sound like the tone of the gods.

It's trying out an SE that's a bit hard...


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 15, 2007)

HighGain510 said:


> I feel that man!  I can't really help you in the London department as I've never been to Europe!   When I think of VH-4 high gain I think of Adam Jones of Tool.   When I think of Engl SE I think of Muhammed from Necrophagist or Steve Morse.  I know those guys use those amps, but again since I haven't played the VH-4 in person I can't really compare the two unfortunately.  Wish I knew someone in the area who had one, I could A/B them and let you know what I thought but I don't think I know of anyone down here who has one...



Opposite problem that I have! I can access the diezel stuff, but can't side by side it with the ENGLs...


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## HighGain510 (Oct 15, 2007)

7 Dying Trees said:


> Opposite problem that I have! I can access the diezel stuff, but can't side by side it with the ENGLs...



Well if you want to fly over to my apartment with a Diezel, I have no problem letting you check one out....


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## Nick (Oct 15, 2007)

guitarguitar are the only place i can think of in the Uk that would have an SE in the store. My local shop had one in but it sold. Also the nearest one to you is Newcastle i think


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## Brord (Oct 15, 2007)

can't say a thing about the SE, never played one. I can say a thing about the VH4 though. A couple of months ago I played one, side by side with a Diezel Herbert, both on a bogenr 4x12 v30 cab. I liked the herbert better for metal, more brutal sounding. Especially for 7 string, it's 180 watts and keeps the low B clear sounding without overly compressing it on high volume thanks to that huge headroom.



> *herbert*
> . . . is a 6-power tube guitar amplifier head. It features 3 channels, for 3 distinct different guitar sounds.
> 
> It's main difference from the VH4 models are in voicing, circuit design, and general layout. Overall the Herbert has a more familiar, slightly looser feel than the VH4, without losing much of the Diezel signature definition and tightness. Simply put, the amp is a player's amp, forgiving and ready for whatever one's soul and mood desires.
> ...



more specs are found on the diezel found, also with some soundclips. I think it's a great site with lots of info. 

DIEZEL Guitar Amplification: welcome to Diezel Amplification

Anyway, when u look at a vh4, also consider the herbert. It's brutal.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 15, 2007)

Yeah, the herbert kind of doesn't wholly appeal as I do like attaining low A D) clarity through using a more thrash based tone, ie, roll done the bass, let the mids do the work, hence why i keep thinking about the VH4 rather than the herbert. But if i try them out, then it'll definately be a side by side. Good thing about DIezels is that they pretty much resell for the new price. I tried to bid on one a few months back and it got past the stage where it was worth it (ie, only a few hundred pounds less than new).


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## Nick (Oct 15, 2007)

isnt there a guy on this site with a VH4?


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## FortePenance (Oct 15, 2007)

Nick said:


> isnt there a guy on this site with a VH4?



Not sure about that but doesn't Guitarholic run his RG2228 through a Herbert (or was it Einstein?) Could drop him a line, see how it handles them EXTRA low notes.


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## Karl Hungus (Oct 15, 2007)

Hah, you know what I'm going to say!


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## ShawnFjellstad (Oct 15, 2007)

i tried an einstein once. it was really cool, and handled low notes really well.


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## Leon (Oct 15, 2007)

ShawnFjellstad said:


> i tried an einstein once. it was really cool, and handled low notes really well.



i've tried one of these as well, and was able to A/B it to my Nomad. the Einstein (despite having a far cooler name) had that very cold, 'clinical' sound to it compared to my Nomad, which was warmer, and a little looser. on it's own, it was fun to play, but i still thought my Nomad had more character.

plus, my Nomad cost me a couple grand less than what the Einstein cost


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## Nick (Oct 15, 2007)

Ejaculadhesive said:


> Not sure about that but doesn't Guitarholic run his RG2228 through a Herbert (or was it Einstein?) Could drop him a line, see how it handles them EXTRA low notes.




thats who im thinking of


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## Drew (Oct 15, 2007)

HighGain510 said:


> Haven't played a VH-4 personally but I hear really good things from some, not so great things from others so I guess it's an amp that some find pleasing to the ear and others not so much.  All the recordings I've heard of VH-4s sound awesome but who knows how much of that was post-recording editing.



Doesn't Adam Jones play a VH-4? I want to say I read an interview with the engineer that claimed the last tool album was basically EQ free, and that all "EQ'ing" was done with mics and mic placement, and by blending his typical amp rig (I think a VH-4 and some sort of a Marshall). 

If so, then I suspect the amp sounds good on its own without heavy post-production, as whatever you think of the songwriting, there were some great guitar tones there.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 15, 2007)

Drew said:


> Doesn't Adam Jones play a VH-4? I want to say I read an interview with the engineer that claimed the last tool album was basically EQ free, and that all "EQ'ing" was done with mics and mic placement, and by blending his typical amp rig (I think a VH-4 and some sort of a Marshall).
> 
> If so, then I suspect the amp sounds good on its own without heavy post-production, as whatever you think of the songwriting, there were some great guitar tones there.



LOL yes indeed sir, Adam uses both a Diezel VH4 and a Marshall of some sort (forget the model?  the marshall was his main tone from the earlier albums), which is why I posted this right below the one you quoted:



HighGain510 said:


> I feel that man!  I can't really help you in the London department as I've never been to Europe!   When I think of VH-4 high gain I think of Adam Jones of Tool.   When I think of Engl SE I think of Muhammed from Necrophagist or Steve Morse.  I know those guys use those amps, but again since I haven't played the VH-4 in person I can't really compare the two unfortunately.  Wish I knew someone in the area who had one, I could A/B them and let you know what I thought but I don't think I know of anyone down here who has one...



  If Adam's tone is more VH4 based then I would say it's a heck of an amp!  That said, I'm also a really big fan of Tool and his tone anyways...


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## Stitch (Oct 15, 2007)

I've tried the VH4. and the Herbert. With a Blackmachine. 8 string.

Tight as fuck sound, but it was Sikths' live rig so obviously I couldn't start tweaking it.

I'm not sure how 'organic' they get when you let them breathe, but obviously if you have an angle on getting to try one then go for it.

I'd still go for an Engl given the exchange rate. 

But guitarguitar are the only UK stockists I can think of.


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## Drew (Oct 15, 2007)

HighGain510 said:


> LOL yes indeed sir, Adam uses both a Diezel VH4 and a Marshall of some sort (forget the model?  the marshall was his main tone from the earlier albums), which is why I posted this right below the one you quoted:



Actually, he used a Dual Rectifier before he switched to the Diezel... I think Undertow was the last DR album...


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## HighGain510 (Oct 15, 2007)

Drew said:


> Actually, he used a Dual Rectifier before he switched to the Diezel... I think Undertow was the last DR album...



Really? Cool beans, learn something new every day.  I thought the older stuff was all Marshall but I guess that makes sense as the older Dual Recs didn't really sound like DRs!


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## eleven59 (Oct 15, 2007)

Drew said:


> Doesn't Adam Jones play a VH-4? I want to say I read an interview with the engineer that claimed the last tool album was basically EQ free, and that all "EQ'ing" was done with mics and mic placement, and by blending his typical amp rig (I think a VH-4 and some sort of a Marshall).
> 
> If so, then I suspect the amp sounds good on its own without heavy post-production, as whatever you think of the songwriting, there were some great guitar tones there.



Exactly. I'd kill for a VH-4. That and the Roadking are the two main amps I'm GASing for. A lot of people have said they don't like them that have tried them, but I've heard a wide variety of tones that are all excellent that were recorded with them.



Drew said:


> Actually, he used a Dual Rectifier before he switched to the Diezel... I think Undertow was the last DR album...



Actually, Lateralus was:
http://accel95.mettre-put-idata.over-blog.com/0/17/78/51/influences/adam-jones.gif
Marshall
Diezel VH-4 Blueface
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rect.

And the new album was the same but the Mesa was replaced with a second, newer VH-4.
http://www.transaudiogroup.com/images/Heil/AdamAmpPR 30.jpg
Marshall
Diezel VH-4 Blue face
Diezel VH-4 Silver face

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Jones#Amplifiers


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## InTheRavensName (Oct 15, 2007)

so, selling the JSX?


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## sakeido (Oct 15, 2007)

Drew said:


> Actually, he used a Dual Rectifier before he switched to the Diezel... I think Undertow was the last DR album...



When I saw them live he had the Dual Rec, VH4 and Marshall.


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## eleven59 (Oct 15, 2007)

sakeido said:


> When I saw them live he had the Dual Rec, VH4 and Marshall.



Yep, but now he's using the Marshall, and two VH4s (one old, one new).


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## Lozek (Oct 15, 2007)

7 Dying Trees said:


> Yeah, the herbert kind of doesn't wholly appeal as I do like attaining low A D) clarity through using a more thrash based tone, ie, roll done the bass, let the mids do the work, hence why i keep thinking about the VH4 rather than the herbert. But if i try them out, then it'll definately be a side by side. Good thing about DIezels is that they pretty much resell for the new price. I tried to bid on one a few months back and it got past the stage where it was worth it (ie, only a few hundred pounds less than new).



yep I've A/B'd a VH4 and a Herbert playing our stuff, and the VH4 is far & away better for what we do. The Herbert is great for BIG BIG BIG sound and open chords, but for picking clarity the VH4 has it.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 16, 2007)

InTheRavensName said:


> so, selling the JSX?


To finance a diezel (or the SE), yes  Interested?


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## zimbloth (Oct 16, 2007)

7 Dying Trees said:


> Yeah, the herbert kind of doesn't wholly appeal as I do like attaining low A D) clarity through using a more thrash based tone, ie, roll done the bass, let the mids do the work, hence why i keep thinking about the VH4 rather than the herbert. But if i try them out, then it'll definately be a side by side. Good thing about DIezels is that they pretty much resell for the new price. I tried to bid on one a few months back and it got past the stage where it was worth it (ie, only a few hundred pounds less than new).



James, I can't speak for the VH-4 unfortunately, but based on clips I've heard and what you said you're looking for in an amp, it seems like the VHT Pittbull UL would fit the bill perfectly as well.

The amp has the coolest most brutal mids I've ever heard. Crisp & articulate attack, tight punchy lows, along with infectious playing response. It feels like it was made for the tuning we use. 

It's also very versatile. It took me a few weeks to perfect/understand the controls of the amp and all their subtleties, but it really is a glorious amp IMO. 

That said I'm guessing you're already very familiar with those and don't want it, but there it is anyways. Good luck with your search either way, sorry I couldn't give a valid opinion on the Diezels.


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## zimbloth (Oct 16, 2007)

..


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 16, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> ..




Actually, I'd just sent an email about VHT cabs to my other guitarist when he pointed out you'd replied to tell me to looking into VHT 

The VHT is another amp I kind of have been looking at. It'd be kind of nice to go back to a head, although (sneakily) I think the VH4 (or the herbert, one of the two) has the capability to add other preamps (ie, i could still run the triaxis if i wanted to) which is kind of nice!

But, the pitbull UL does sound like a nice amp :/ Are you pairing it with VHT cabs?

I'm also in the process of trying to score a weird marshall cab that has some awesome speakers in it and sounds ace!


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## zimbloth (Oct 16, 2007)

7 Dying Trees said:


> Actually, I'd just sent an email about VHT cabs to my other guitarist when he pointed out you'd replied to tell me to looking into VHT
> 
> The VHT is another amp I kind of have been looking at. It'd be kind of nice to go back to a head, although (sneakily) I think the VH4 (or the herbert, one of the two) has the capability to add other preamps (ie, i could still run the triaxis if i wanted to) which is kind of nice!
> 
> ...



Honestly man, the VHT is so versatile and so great, I seriously doubt you'd have any more amp/pre-amp gas once you got the amp setup right.

Yes I run it with the VHT 4x12 slant cab with the P50E speakers  I originally had a Mesa 4x12 w/ v30s when I got the amp, but I definitely dig the VHT cab more. For a little while I actually had a full stack, but I quickly realized that wasn't necessary and sold the straight one. Those speakers in their cabs are so sweet. It doesn't quite have the booming lows of the V30s, but it's much punchier, growlier, defined, just the coolest speakers I've ever heard (though the C90s are right there too). It's a perfect match for the Pittbull head.

I loved my Triaxis/2:90, but I really don't miss it one bit now. Totally fulfilled. I also don't miss how fucking heavy that rack was  Now my rack just has the G-Force/etc.

If you have any other questions or whatever feel free. I've been obsessing over the subtlties of the amp for almost a year now. I'm still learning cool new things about it. It's a complex amp, it's easy to dial in a good sound, but takes time to master.

I'd love to be able to make clips for you, but we're still recording w/ the DI box at this stage of the process. I really think you'd love it though. It reminds me of the few Diezel clips I've heard, but a little less processed, a richer midrange, and just different.


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 16, 2007)

hmmmmm, sounds nice! I've got a lead on a cheap-ish VHT cab at the moment with the p50e's in it, although it is a straight cab.

I just wish there was somewhere round here where i could side by side them all!

Definately like the more thrash end of the sound spectrum as it is more defined, and huge sounds come from a band mix to my ears rather than just one amp.

May have to get all my cash together and go trying things out...!

I'll have to shoot you a few questions bout recording soon-ish, as I am looking to do that in the next few months as it's got to that time I think!

Mr Lozek also pointed out that since he has the SE preamp already in his rack, that an SE may be overkill. Doesn't stop me wanting one though 

At the same time I am really digging the lead sound of the triaxis through the rivera, using a mark model. QUite like the bastardised recto sound I use for rythm at thew moment as well.

amps amps amps amps!


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## zimbloth (Oct 16, 2007)

7 Dying Trees said:


> hmmmmm, sounds nice! I've got a lead on a cheap-ish VHT cab at the moment with the p50e's in it, although it is a straight cab.



Yeah I've felt that way many times. I've usually just bought amps blind, going on reputation. I was lucky to score my VHT used at my local GC.



7 Dying Trees said:


> Definately like the more thrash end of the sound spectrum as it is more defined, and huge sounds come from a band mix to my ears rather than just one amp.



Thats definitely how the VHT is (or can be). Honestly there isn't enough space on Chris' servers for me to do it justice in print. It's just awesome. The front-loaded VHT cabs don't have the thunderous bass that some cabs do, but like you're saying, in the mix of the band it ends up sounding so much better.

If scooped old school Morbid Angel type death metal tones (which I like too) or ultra processed SYL (recent) type vibes are your thing, this amp probably isn't for you. If you're more about brutality, perfect pick attack for fast trempick runs on low strings or palm-mutes, mids that roar and growl like nothing else yet are articulate and present, then it probably is. Chords sound huge and defined at the same time. The amp can sound a little 'dry' at times compared to a Mesa, depending on the settings, but it still ends up sounding fat and raw at the same time even when you are dialing in a more focused/tight/compressed sound. The constant is, ultimate in note definition and authority.

Now, it can coax a huge variety of tones from this, I'm just describing it based on how I set it. Very versatile.

My bandmate plays a juiced up Dual Rectifier w/ a Mesa C90 cab. I notice when we're rehearsing, while standing in the middle of the room (so I get both amps evenly going to my ears), that the Mesa has more "haze" - or I guess a very high treble/presence, whereas my VHT tends to dominate the low and high mids, but of course still perfect attack. It fills out the sound very nice. 

Now, I set the treble on the VHT fairly low @ about 10 o'clock (presence around 12 oclock), so I could get more like the Mesa if I wanted, but the way the VHT is voiced, you just don't need it. The 'mid' and the various notches that effect the mids (long story) sort of act as the REAL treble. I can turn the treble knob to ZERO and be totally fine. You can get this badass crisp yet fluid/punchy sound, without ever getting any haze/fizz/harshness in the equation. It used to be that if I ever walked in front of my cab and experienced the 'death zone' of the speaker cone right in my ear, it would be very unpleasant. That just never happens anymore. It's partly the speakers, but more so the amp.

I could go on forever so I'm going to stop (I could write a novel about this amp honestly), but I'll just end this by saying.... I think my favorite thing about the amp is how single notes on the low strings sound. They just jump out at you with this ferocious authority like I've never experienced before. It is absolutely addicting and brutal sounding.



7 Dying Trees said:


> I'll have to shoot you a few questions bout recording soon-ish, as I am looking to do that in the next few months as it's got to that time I think!



Anytime.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm certainly looking forward to checking out the Ultralead at Jerich's studio sometime soon!


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## 7 Dying Trees (Oct 16, 2007)

HighGain510 said:


> I'm certainly looking forward to checking out the Ultralead at Jerich's studio sometime soon!


..and then you can write a full report  I am interested in this amp, there was one on the bay a while back and I didn't jump at it as could not realistically source the funds!


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## zimbloth (Oct 16, 2007)

HighGain510 said:


> I'm certainly looking forward to checking out the Ultralead at Jerich's studio sometime soon!



Just be patient with it. As I've been saying it's easy to get a great sound out of it, but to really get it to sound AMAZING you really have to know what you're doing. The amp is also VERY picky about different types of pickups. It seems to love EMGs, most Duncans. DiMarzios....not so much. Mixed results there.

The guitars that have sounded the best thru the amp so far have been EMG 707 equipped guitars (Jackson COW, Dean Razorback7), the EMG 81-7 w/ 18v guitars (Stephen Carpenter models), my Rico Jr Custom (SD Invader), Yamaha AESRS7 (SD Custom), and the RG1077XL (Dimarzio Evolution). The Duncan JB sounds great with it too (Jackson RR-1T). The regular EMG 81 (9v) was a little too processed sounding with the amp. I also found that the DiMarzio Blaze sounded very good, but had a little too hollow and peaky of an attack for my tastes, but I only tried it briefly and I'm sure I could have dialed in a better sound if I put more time into it. I just find that middier, higher output pickups seem to do best w/ this amp.



7 Dying Trees said:


> ..and then you can write a full report  I am interested in this amp, there was one on the bay a while back and I didn't jump at it as could not realistically source the funds!



For what it's worth, I wouldn't mind buying one over here and shipping it to you if that would help you (have done it before). I know USA made amps over there can be priced insanely high. I see UL's go here for $1300-1600 USD routinely, which should be against the law.


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## HighGain510 (Oct 16, 2007)

I'll be testing it out with Bareknuckles (my Thorn) and whatever else Billy has laying around the studio!  I will be A/B'ing it (assuming I still have it) with the SE, the Brunetti, the Mesa and the H&K TriAmp Mk. II as long as we have time!  I'll report back with my findings but it might be a couple weeks before we can schedule a block of time to hang out.


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## Nick (Oct 16, 2007)

zimbloth said:


> I see UL's go here for $1300-1600 USD routinely, which should be against the law.




   

rule britania


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## InTheRavensName (Oct 16, 2007)

7 Dying Trees said:


> To finance a diezel (or the SE), yes  Interested?



...yes

fuck you reading list, this student loan has gear written all over it


(...do I get a discount if Val does more promo stuff for Matron? )


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## Nick (Oct 16, 2007)

InTheRavensName said:


> ...yes
> 
> fuck you reading list, this student loan has gear written all over it
> 
> ...



wait.....you mean that money was for books?


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## InTheRavensName (Oct 18, 2007)

pssht...I wouldn't know...they put a bar next to most of my lectures


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## Nick (Oct 18, 2007)

what university? that sounds good im sure i could do with another degree and 4 years of liver abuse!


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## 7StringofAblicK (Oct 18, 2007)

God damn you nick for making me interested in a UL 

I just got my powerball sounding kick ass (and i Know you'll say the UL stomps it), but damn you!


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