# Jazz III Max Grip vs Nylon tonal difference



## JStraitiff (Jun 10, 2012)

I just got a pack of carbon fiber max grip jazz IIIs and I like the grip but I'm noticing the tone really sucks compared to the nylon jazz's. I Also noticed that they are a lot thicker and I'm betting they don't have the same bevel on the edge as the regulars. I think I'm just gonna throw these out and pick up a pack of regular ones. Has anyone else noticed these things or others between the two?


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## jon66 (Jun 10, 2012)

I picked up a pack of the carbon fiber jazz IIIs to try about a month back when I was out of town on vacation. When I got home and tried them, I was extremely disappointed. Unlike you, I normally use the ultex jazz IIIs and find their tone to be bright and crisp. The carbon fiber ones I found very dull and mushy sounding, if that makes any sense. I noticed it a LOT worse on my acoustic. I liked the grip on the carbon ones, but imo, that's the only plus compared to the other styles of jazz III picks, or at least the ones Dunlop offers at least.


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## troyguitar (Jun 10, 2012)

They make nylon max grips, that is what I use.

The carbon fiber ones don't bother me tone-wise but I like bright red picks better than black ones because I can see them - black ones always get lost


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## Dayn (Jun 10, 2012)

They certainly have a bevel... not sure if it's the same as the ones you're used to. I've played those red ones before, and I could barely use them. But, I couldn't hear any tonal difference at all when I wasn't fumbling. They produce the same sound as my fingernail, which is as tough and sharp as a nail.


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## groovemasta (Jun 10, 2012)

Wait... the black ones are the carbon fibre ones?  If they are all this time I've been wanting to see what the hype some have for them is about when I've had a few just sitting here never being used because they're scratchy and wear really easily.


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## TRENCHLORD (Jun 11, 2012)

I find the CF max-grips to be a bit brighter and crisper sounding than the regular nylons, which are warmer/rounder.
The thickness looks the same to me (1.38mm IIRC).
The tip on the CF maxgrips is a bit duller than the regular nylon jazzIII, although the difference isn't much. (I shape the tips sharper myself anyways)
I also notice a sharper tighter attack with the CF, which along with the grip is the reason i prefer them.
Like most tonal choices, it really comes down to the entire rig, and also what attributes one wishes to enhance or suppress.


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## danger5oh (Jun 11, 2012)

groovemasta said:


> Wait... the black ones are the carbon fibre ones?  If they are all this time I've been wanting to see what the hype some have for them is about when I've had a few just sitting here never being used because they're scratchy and wear really easily.



There are regular black Max Grips and then there are the carbon fiber ones... which are a duller dark grey color with faintly visible carbon fibers and not just black. I regularly use both and I've never really noticed a difference between the two tonally... or with the purple Tortex Jazz III's for that matter. But then again, I do have an extremely heavy pick hand.


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## JStraitiff (Jun 11, 2012)

TRENCHLORD said:


> I find the CF max-grips to be a bit brighter and crisper sounding than the regular nylons, which are warmer/rounder.
> The thickness looks the same to me (1.38mm IIRC).
> The tip on the CF maxgrips is a bit duller than the regular nylon jazzIII, although the difference isn't much. (I shape the tips sharper myself anyways)
> I also notice a sharper tighter attack with the CF, which along with the grip is the reason i prefer them.
> Like most tonal choices, it really comes down to the entire rig, and also what attributes one wishes to enhance or suppress.



I honestly found the carbon fiber ones to be less clear and bright than the regular nylons. I dont think the difference has as much to do with the material as it does the bevel or something. I think the attack is changing giving a muddier tone.


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## Greatoliver (Jun 11, 2012)

I used ultex for a long time, but I while it was great for most things, I found they didn't have the attack I wanted, and they wore down really quickly. The CF ones are definitely not as warm sounding, but IMO have a thinner tone with better attack - I find I you can lessen the attack by picking less hard, but it is difficult to increase the attack.

I never really used the nylon or stiffo ones because the ultex ones sounded better 

EDIT: The differences probably come from different picking techniques, I guess.


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## TRENCHLORD (Jun 11, 2012)

JStraitiff said:


> I honestly found the carbon fiber ones to be less clear and bright than the regular nylons. I dont think the difference has as much to do with the material as it does the bevel or something. I think the attack is changing giving a muddier tone.


 
Yeah they seem to come a little more rounded tip for some reason (relavent to the nylons), which is why I find the need to sharpen and bevel with a file very softly. I'm not sure how guys can flutter/trem pick with any rounding on such a thick pick. With a thinner (.5-.8ish mm) pick it doesn't seem as hard, but I find the tone almost hollow after jazz3ing for so long.


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## MatthewK (Jun 11, 2012)

I switch back and forth between a few different Jazz III-type picks and I don't notice any huge difference in tone. Even the tonal difference of my Red Bear lil' Jazzer is pretty subtle IMO. I like the carbon fiber ones a lot, if only for the grip.


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## MacTown09 (Jun 12, 2012)

Don't waste your time on either and go straight for the Ultex Jazz 3's.

They are the best sounding and best feeling Jazz gripped pick in my opinion.


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## xchristopherx (Jun 12, 2012)

I find those picks too heavy. I keep special ordering the green dunlop tortex jazz picks in bags of 3 dozen. They are seriously the only pick the feels and sounds right to me. I have tried to get into full sized picks and can't do it. The jazz III are just too thick for the feel I want.


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## xfilth (Jun 12, 2012)

Jazz III Carbon Max Grip is my favorite pick


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## Ishan (Jun 12, 2012)

I switch a lot between Ultex Jazz III and Dava jazz grip delrin and nylon picks. They all sounds great and feels different, I love everything Dava, I have a lot of them.
If you're not against non Jazz shaped picks, try the metal tipped Dava, insane attack without the very hard metal feel between your fingers.


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## Winspear (Jun 12, 2012)

I've noticed a lot of difference between picks but not really through an amp. Sometimes I'll play acoustically and think 'this pick is so bright!' but it turns out it's just scratching on the string that the amp doesn't really pick up. 

But yeah they do Red Nylon maxgrips which are slightly different tonally, and thinner, than the CF's. 
I use the Red Nylon Maxgrips attached to a thumbpick strap most of the time (I hybrid pick a lot and have got used to normal playing with a thumbpick (still holding with index)). When I'm using a normal pick it's the Carbon Fibres as the extra thickness feels equal to the rigidness gained by the thumbstrap.


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## edsped (Jun 12, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> I've noticed a lot of difference between picks but not really through an amp. Sometimes I'll play acoustically and think 'this pick is so bright!' but it turns out it's just scratching on the string that the amp doesn't really pick up.
> 
> But yeah they do Red Nylon maxgrips which are slightly different tonally, and thinner, than the CF's.
> I use the Red Nylon Maxgrips attached to a thumbpick strap most of the time (I hybrid pick a lot and have got used to normal playing with a thumbpick (still holding with index)). When I'm using a normal pick it's the Carbon Fibres as the extra thickness feels equal to the rigidness gained by the thumbstrap.


This is interesting because I feel the most difference between different picks when playing through an amp, especially something really responsive to picking dynamics like a tube amp. I can love the way a pick feels unplugged but then I turn my amp on and it feels completely different. The texture of a pick (scratchy vs. smooth) is way more evident through an amp than unplugged IMO.


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## JStraitiff (Jun 12, 2012)

I also noticed the tonal difference mainly through the amp but once i realized that it was there i was able to hear it and FEEL it unplugged as well. So i officially hate the carbon ones. Im gonna try once more with the nylons to see if they're just like the regular nylons with max grip. I honestly dont even care about the max grip anymore. Its just a waste of time. We need a pick sampling website or selling open packs at guitar stores. I remember seeing something like that at a local store once but i dont shop at local stores and all they had was like tortex picks

What i tried recently that i like is the graphtech tusq picks. I got a sample one when i bought a nut and so i cut it down to jazz shape. it sounds really good.


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## edsped (Jun 12, 2012)

JStraitiff said:


> We need a pick sampling website or selling open packs at guitar stores.


The lack of this is exactly why I have a little crafts case filled with hundreds of picks. I'm always wanting to try out different kinds but of course I have to buy them in packs of 6 or more. At least it makes an interesting conversation piece.


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## troyguitar (Jun 12, 2012)

You guys go through a lot more picks a lot faster than me. The picks I've used in ~8 years of playing:

1 pack of .88mm normal Tortex
1 pack of black nylon Jazz III's (1.38mm)
3 packs of red nylon Jazz III's (1.38mm still but easier to see)
1 pack of carbon fiber max grip Jazz III's (still 1.38mm AFAIK)
1 pack of red nylong max grip Jazz III's (also still 1.38mm AFAIK - I like the max grip but needed red to see them again )

I've never worn out a Jazz III, they get a little worn on the edges but that's about it - they remain usable forever. I have 8 year old Jazz III's in my pick box 

What are you guys doing to actually wear them out, running them on a drill like Paul Gilbert?


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## JStraitiff (Jun 12, 2012)

^ i dont really wear any out, i usually lose them.


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## troyguitar (Jun 12, 2012)

JStraitiff said:


> ^ i dont really wear any out, i usually lose them.



Yep, that's why I've switched from black to bright red ones


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## Floppystrings (Jun 12, 2012)

I only use the nylon black Jazz's.

The Ultex ones interest me though.


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## krispp (Jun 14, 2012)

JStraitiff said:


> We need a pick sampling website or selling open packs at guitar stores.


Closest I've found, single picks here: http://www.bigcitystrings.com/picks.htm


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## Ben.Last (Jun 14, 2012)

I love the Carbon Fibers, I just wish they came in a shape like the Black Fangs or the new Ultex 3s, because I don't get along as well with the Jazz 3 shape.


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## ziggystarpuff (Jun 14, 2012)

the black fang james hetfield ultex picks are amazing, great grip and a sweet jazz tip and ultex is an amazing material, I am sold on these now.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jun 14, 2012)

This is a pick thread, thus got to give a shout out to Gravity Picks. I love the hell out of them and they've replaced Jazz IIIs, Stubby's, and various V-Picks for me. 

Gravity Guitar Picks &mdash; Home

I'm rocking the Edge Mini right now, but the Razer is my backup.


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## Ben.Last (Jun 14, 2012)

ziggystarpuff said:


> the black fang james hetfield ultex picks are amazing, great grip and a sweet jazz tip and ultex is an amazing material, I am sold on these now.



I've been using the Black Fangs. They are really nice, but I wear them down incredibly fast.


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## ziggystarpuff (Jun 15, 2012)

Buy them in bulk, store cost is 11 bucks for a bag of 36 so the markup shouldn't be much in quantity. I have a few v picks and a red bear that sounds and feels amazing but I guard it like it's a child lol


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