# Alien Abductions



## Iamasingularity (Dec 5, 2011)

Penn and Teller`s showtime:

Part 1:

Part 2:


Your thoughts/comments on the video/subject?


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## TRENCHLORD (Dec 5, 2011)

All I know is; If alien women look like this, I wanna party!!!


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## Demiurge (Dec 5, 2011)

I can't decide which type of aliens to believe in: the kind that taught our ancestors how to move and cut stones with their minds in remote antiquity, or the kind that _*really*_ needs to know what is up our butts.


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## Stealthtastic (Dec 5, 2011)

That lady at the end of part 1 telling about how you know you've been in contact with extra terrestrial beings is creepy as hell.

And "I can move a few things with my mind every now and then, but I need to practice." pfft that made me laugh, and 60$ an hour!?!?! I'd like that situation too!

Those people are just full of bullshit,

sorry if I offended anyone by pointing out obvious things that I thought were hilarious.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 5, 2011)

I was abducted by aliens once...

...they had tacos.


/stupid

I believe something other than humans as we know it helped shape human civilization and had a hand in the way we've evolved. 

How and why? Hell if I fucking know.


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## Chickenhawk (Dec 5, 2011)

I was abducted by aliens once...

...they had tacos.


/stupid

I believe something other than humans as we know it helped shape human civilization and had a hand in the way we've evolved. 

How and why? Hell if I fucking know.


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## Jakke (Dec 5, 2011)

I love those guys
I watch Bullshit all the time.

Is there a coincidence that all of the participants in the support group is on psychofarmaca?

-I think not...



I'd also like that situation


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## shanejohnson02 (Dec 6, 2011)

Do aliens exist? Maybe. Probably even.

Do I have any evidence to support this? 






nope.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 6, 2011)

The black lady has to be the funniest. She thinks she`s married to this reptilian and has 2 kids. <----Thats sad. Even the black twin, she was like "The aliens are black" <----WTF. All these guys are nuts, and its sad that some people exploit them and make money over sessions that do nothing but brainwash them. All these conventions are full of shit, you can just see by the shit they sell. Shells, small stones and common crystals, so-on. I read this today:

BBC News - Kepler 22-b: Earth-like planet confirmed


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## tuneinrecords (Dec 8, 2011)

I've seen two UFO's along the New Jersey coast (which is a hot spot) with other witnesses. These sitings were at least a decade apart and both were similar although the second instance seemed closer than the first. Were they alien? I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you that these objects moved like no publicly known air craft. Speeds and maneuvers like you wouldn't believe. 

An awesome read is Communion by Whitley Strieber. Whether you believe in aliens or not, this book was amazing.


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## Explorer (Dec 8, 2011)

Man, it's great to have another true believer here on the board. Somehow you've managed to fly under my radar for too long.


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## leandroab (Dec 8, 2011)

Translated into portuguese? Then that shit is real...!


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## Murmel (Dec 8, 2011)

I was abducted by aliens once.

They gave me tacos.


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## USMarine75 (Dec 8, 2011)

Google search... "alien tacos":
















PS All this taco talk I'm getting Qdoba for lunch now mmm.


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 8, 2011)

tuneinrecords said:


> I've seen two UFO's along the New Jersey coast (which is a hot spot) with other witnesses. These sitings were at least a decade apart and both were similar although the second instance seemed closer than the first. Were they alien? I couldn't tell you, but I can tell you that these objects moved like no publicly known air craft. Speeds and maneuvers like you wouldn't believe.
> 
> An awesome read is Communion by Whitley Strieber. Whether you believe in aliens or not, this book was amazing.



Didn't you get the memo? We're all 100% positive that UFO's are of this world, because we're all geniuses. Duh.


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## eaeolian (Dec 8, 2011)

shanejohnson02 said:


> Do aliens exist? Maybe. Probably even.



See, though, that's the wrong question. It's not their existence that's the issue, it's the likelihood that an alien race sufficiently advanced enough to travel here in the first place would abduct a few people at random, completely in secret, just because they could. Then they never make a mistake or get caught.

Yeah, right.


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## Jakke (Dec 8, 2011)

I have a problem accepting that an alien race advanced enough to travel at speeds well over light speed has to abduct people to make test on them. Our own scientists can grow tissue in laboratories, why can't this race do it?


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 8, 2011)

I don't think that anybody traveling here would use high speed thrust to do it, I would have to figure that they'd use anti-gravity or something. That's beside the point.

If they did get here and did abduct people, I think they'd be intelligent enough to not get caught. However, I don't see the point in abductions and therefore have no reason to subscribe to the idea.. Unless there's something fascinating/unique about our race that's worth studying.


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## Jakke (Dec 8, 2011)

But then you would just have to get some DNA, and you could just grow it in a lab, that would spare you the travel.


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 8, 2011)

That's probable, unless that for some reason doesn't work for their purposes. Or they're just really gay for actual earthlings.


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## Jakke (Dec 8, 2011)

That is an enticing thought


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## Alberto7 (Dec 8, 2011)

The probability of alien life is fucking astronomical. Intelligent life? Well, that's very possible too. I, too, don't see the point in abductions. If they're so advanced that they can get here from millions, possibly billions, of light-years away, then I think it's pretty safe to say that they wouldn't even need to get very close to us to make a complete analysis of our planet and its species.

If Adam is right, however, and they're gay for human beings... We're fucked .

On a slightly different note, though: I might've been about 10 years old when this happened. On holidays, my family and I traveled to the capital to see my grandparents and cousins. We were at my grandfather's beach house, which is on the side of a hill, and has an incredible view of the ocean. The airport is near that place, too, and you can see the route that all planes follow to land and take off.

I was sitting inside, while my grandfather, my uncle, and two of my cousins were sitting on the yard outside, at night, staring into the ocean while chatting. Suddenly, they started calling us who were inside. We arrived too late though, but they did tell us that they saw some sort of strange object moving in strange ways, and following a route that regular planes follow in that area. After it did some strange maneuvers, it flew really fast right on top of them and they never saw it again. My grandfather estimated that it might've been slightly bigger than a family car, although he said he wasn't sure; didn't take a good look at it.


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## synrgy (Dec 8, 2011)

I strongly believe that the Universe is entirely too large for us to be the only life forms.

That said, the vastness of the Universe also leads me to believe strongly that the chances of any non-Earth life form crossing paths with an Earth life form are slim-to-none.

THAT said, I'd sure be super-mega-uber-excited if we did find incontrovertible proof of their existence and subsequent interaction with us.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Dec 8, 2011)

Maybe they're using us for high school Biology classes, like we use frogs.


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## tuneinrecords (Dec 8, 2011)

Maybe it's not that aliens traveled light years to get to us, but rather they've been here with us all along?

Another possibility is the idea of multiple dimensions so instead of traveling from another planet, they're actually just switching from one dimension to another.


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## 8Fingers (Dec 8, 2011)

I keep wondering why E.T.s would come from so far away only to suck our cows organs and scare the crap out of grandmas in the middle of nowhere


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 9, 2011)

What if the entire human race and the earth were a simulation created by the Aliens? Like they`ve been here all along from the start, observing and studying us like lab rats? Its like those moments in MIB, at the end of of the movies that are complete mind-fucks.



I can`t find the other one with the lockers and stuff.


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## 8Fingers (Dec 9, 2011)

Iamasingularity said:


> What if the entire human race and the earth were a simulation created by the Aliens? Like they`ve been here all along from the start, observing and studying us like lab rats? Its like those moments in MIB, at the end of of the movies that are complete mind-fucks.


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## Explorer (Dec 9, 2011)

What if... what if... ?!

yes, I can imagine all kinds of things. 

Still, I'd love to see some actual evidence, because otherwise all the speculation about alien visitaiton and possible/probable methods, motives and so forth can equally be used to argue for Yahweh, Odin, elves, the Tooth Fairy and Santa Clause. Evidence is where the rubber meets the road. 
----

Incidentally, one of the simultaneously best and most painful things to watch is when you get true believers in this stuff together to argue, instead of having them talk with unbelievers/skeptics. The two women who were clear as to the color of the Martians through revelation, and were in complete disagreement, reminds me of when you get Intelligent Design/Creation proponents together, and hear them about how the others in that same broad group are just completely wrong (again, based purely on revelation). 

----

To put a positive spin on imagination, though...

Wasn't Einstein amazing? He proposed that space bends, and came up with a testable hypothesis which turned out to be right. 

Science is so cool, and doesn't require belief to work. The fact than a human enterprise has found a way to both harness imagination, and to discard what doesn't work, is an amazing thing, don't you think?


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## 8Fingers (Dec 9, 2011)

Explorer said:


> The fact than a human enterprise has found a way to both harness imagination, and to discard what doesn't work, is an amazing thing, don't you think?



Amazing is Thora Birch (oYo)


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## tuneinrecords (Dec 9, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Didn't you get the memo? We're all 100% positive that UFO's are of this world, because we're all geniuses. Duh.



????


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 9, 2011)

8Fingers said:


>




My balls shrank into my pelvis


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 9, 2011)

Explorer said:


> To put a positive spin on imagination, though...
> 
> Wasn't Einstein amazing? He proposed that space bends, and came up with a testable hypothesis which turned out to be right.
> 
> Science is so cool, and doesn't require belief to work. The fact than a human enterprise has found a way to both harness imagination, and to discard what doesn't work, is an amazing thing, don't you think?



Ya, this reminds me. I`m waiting on the review of the CERN neutrino shoot.
If this beam is faster than light, than we`ll have to be working with a new theory and review all the stuff thats happened the previous 100 years.


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## tuneinrecords (Dec 9, 2011)

Explorer said:


> What if... what if... ?!
> 
> yes, I can imagine all kinds of things.
> 
> ...




I agree that evidence is important. Sometimes it's so important that it's hidden though or it's biased or even flat out wrong. If an innocent person can be sent to an electric chair, then science can certainly be wrong. It's been wrong time and time again throughout history. A lot of the advancements have taken time because of an unwillingness to accept new information. Having blind faith in science alone is foolish. It doesn't exist in a vacuum. It's not impervious to being wrong and biased. It's always evolving and rethinking and reworking. 

Einstein was amazing, but there's since been people who have elaborated on his work and have taken his theories to the next level. 

Also, you do need belief in science, particularly when you take an "experts" opinion as pure gospel and hope that the findings weren't skewed or influenced by who was paying for that opinion. Plenty of opinions go under the radar, not because they're wrong, but because they go against the grain and established view set forth by the money interests. Now, I'm not saying all expert opinions are wrong, but I know plenty that have been dead wrong and proven to be so. Science has discarded more than what doesn't work unfortunately. I think if science wasn't subjected the interests of who's funding the research, then it could truly be free and accomplish even more and wonderful advancements for the betterment of the human race. Science is powerful stuff and in the wrong hands it can be just as bad as it can be good. It's like you can use a hammer to build a house or smash in someone's skull. It's a double edged sword. And there's advancements and science which are hidden for national security purposes and all that too. There's a lot more to what is possible than what the public sees. 


BTW, I'm not looking to stir up anything and will not engage in a long exchange over this, but I felt it important to point out that your carefully placed comments and sarcasm aren't lost on me. Nor is the fact that you seem to be trolling around after my comments now on multiple threads at this point. I now realize how much energy and time I've wasted on responding to your comments. Hopefully I can refrain in the future. If anyone's a true believer it's you. You've been riding high on your almighty gospel of government sanctioned science proof trip that you can't even for a moment entertain the notion that science might not have it all figured out yet. 

It's been fun Explorer, but I know I"m not the only one tiring of your comments. Don't expect anymore responses from me.


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## vampiregenocide (Dec 9, 2011)

I think there's truth in everything, you know as they say: 'no smoke without fire'.


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 9, 2011)

I was kidding when I said we're all geniuses and have this stuff figured out. Although, Explorer really is a genius - he knows everything about life and reality, and he's nearly omniscient - in fact, we shouldn't even have these conversations about paranormal activity, extraterrestrials, etc. without asking him if it's ok first, because none of us have ANY idea what the fuck we're talking about in the slightest.


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## synrgy (Dec 9, 2011)

I think folks need to calm down a bit. Just because someone doesn't share your opinion or life views doesn't mean they're trolling or even generally being a jerk. I don't find anything condescending or insulting in this thread, and I don't see why anyone should feel the need to be defensive or insulting/condescending in a retaliatory way.

Anyway, as to the theory of life on Earth being an experiment run by aliens:


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## eaeolian (Dec 9, 2011)

Knock it off, Adam. You know better.


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## Adam Of Angels (Dec 9, 2011)

Sorry, I was just being sarcastic because I thought we all were.

Anyway, I don't think earth is an experiment, or, if it is, I don't think it would be so easily comprehendible that we could posit coherent theories on same... For that matter, I think the origin of life in general is well beyond our comprehension at this point in time, and therefore, a life form more advanced than us is also beyond our comprehension. I see no harm in trying to solve these mysteries, since we'll eventually come to understand them (in my opinion), but in the mean time, I think it's funny that we keep having heated arguments about this stuff. That's more or less the point I want to make - I just don't understand the efforts to shut down ideas, when the opposition is equally unenlightened.


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## vampiregenocide (Dec 9, 2011)

That's somewhat similar to my argument for God. If he/she existed, it would be too infinitely complex for even the smartest human beings to comprehend so to pass judgement for me, is silly. 

I believe in Science, because it shows us what we do know and what we're in the process of knowing, and that seems the safest side to be with for me. That being said, I don't think we should let out minds be confined by what we think we know. Some of the greatest advances in human technology and knowledge have come from those who have dared to think outside the box and challenge the norm, however crazy the idea might seem. Of course, you still need to approach those ideas with a grasp of reality.



I should add though I am open to the idea of a God, I am not religious and do not live my life around the idea of there being a God


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 9, 2011)

Man, I fucking love this thread! I always find it hard to converse with people about these kind of topics. Not because I`m shy, but because well.. many people don`t care about it. Man I just hope I live to see a day where we actually discover/meet extraterrestrial life. If I were to be forced to choose a religion I would choose the Mormans. At least they believe in Aliens.


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## eaeolian (Dec 9, 2011)

Adam Of Angels said:


> Sorry, I was just being sarcastic because I thought we all were.



No, you were being an ass, and you know better. Next time think before you hit the post button.

Yes, I'm doing this in public on purpose. Let's see if you get the point.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 9, 2011)

eaeolian said:


> No, you were being an ass, and you know better. Next time think before you hit the post button.
> 
> Yes, I'm doing this in public on purpose. Let's see if you get the point.



Fear the wrath of the Super mods!


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## Murdstone (Dec 9, 2011)

What I find interesting is that most of the stories you read about UFO sightings and abductions occur in some backwards Nowhereville, USA town and happen to some farmer or his wife. Why aren't there any sophisticated people getting abducted? 

I want to see Neil deGrasse Tyson or another physicist or professor come out and say that they were abducted, then talk about the experience - not "well there was a bright blue light and then my butthole started to hurt. Next thing I know I was back in bed cuddled with either my wife or one of my livestock."


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## eaeolian (Dec 9, 2011)

Murdstone said:


> not "well there was a bright blue light and then my butthole started to hurt. Next thing I know I was back in bed cuddled with either my wife or one of my livestock."



I'm pretty sure the former can be explained by the latter in most cases.


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## Explorer (Dec 9, 2011)

tuneinrecords said:


> BTW, I'm not looking to stir up anything and will not engage in a long exchange over this, but I felt it important to point out that your (Explorer's) carefully placed comments and sarcasm aren't lost on me. Nor is the fact that you seem to be trolling around after my comments now on multiple threads at this point.
> 
> ...I know I"m not the only one tiring of your comments.



As I've pointed out before, every one of us has the ability to use the Report button when we suspect someone is trolling or engaging in personal attacks. It's the




exclamation point button on the left side of all posts in an open thread. 

If you feel that anyone is trolling, including me, be sure to let the mods know by using that button on the appropriate post. It helps make this a better community. 

And, although you might not have noticed the correlation, I generally post about things which are inaccurate. If you feel I'm targeting you, then you might consider the large amount of pseudoscience and conspiracy-mongering in which you're engaging. 

I do the same thing when someone gives bad set-up or string tensioning advice as well, so don't take it personally. 

I'm actually hopeful you'll start to apply your skepticism to all claims, including your own, which is why I'm encouraging you to look at the premises and reasoning necessary to sustain your assertions. You seem like a nice person, if a little unclear about how the real world works, and I look forward to you being able to examine things from all angles. 

If it makes you feel better, I talk to you on the same level as when we've talked out things at different workplaces. If someone tosses out an idea, none of us are immune to having that idea examined. I'm not automatically respecting an idea, but I'm respecting you by assuming you can at some point see the discrepancies in your thinking.

Cheers!

*Short version: I think you're not applying your intelligence equally to all things. I hope you'll eventually do so, but if you think I'm trolling, be sure to report it.*


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## Jakke (Dec 9, 2011)

Iamasingularity said:


> If I were to be forced to choose a religion I would choose the Mormons. At least they believe in Aliens.



And they have _magic_ underwear!


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## rectifryer (Dec 9, 2011)

I think its sad people joke about these things. I have had serious firsthand experience with alien abductions and I find it apalling how ignorant people can be. If you cant comprehend the sacrifices abductees have made, then just leave it alone. We are probe ambassadors; we are the frontline analysis; we take the hands we are dealt for the sake of humanity.


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## 8Fingers (Dec 9, 2011)

Iamasingularity said:


> If I were to be forced to choose a religion I would choose the Mormans. At least they believe in Aliens.



I hate beliefs.
Gods, gnomes, fairies, aliens whatever are not something to believe in, or you see/talk/touch/smell/whatever them or they don't exist.
Or they do exist but it's not suppost for us to communicate with them.
Why the hell would I believe in something that never speaks to me?
Something that I can't see/touch/smell/whatever?
To me it's nonsense.
All societies always needed something to believe in.
Humans lie..........a lot so I can't believe in something somebody wrote a long ago and others kept turning it bigger and bigger.
If supernatural stuff does exist still it never spoke to me so I won't waste 1 second of my life.................. believing.
If any God wants me to follow his rules, come and speak to me, be a father and teach me stuff insteady of just throwing me on this planet. 

I can't understand why some people think it's so impossible to exist other civilizations out there, maybe because they think God only created us?
Humans with so crap brains that goes from Einstein to Hitler?
God made a terrible mistake and seems like he ran away or is in vacation and Earth is paying his bills 

I can't believe in aliens but I can EXPECT they do exist cause we can't see the whole universe.
I really EXPECT there are really better civilizations out there cause if there's only us...........whoever/whatever created us was out of his/its mind


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## Rook (Dec 9, 2011)

I'm reserving my views on this except for this one: 99% of alien abduction stories I've heard (n.b. *'I've heard'*, I didn't state an absolute like 'are') have come from the USA, usually southern states. I've never heard anyone in Europe claim to have been abducted by aliens, nor a story of such.

So I ask, if these beings have come all this way why are they so fascinated by the folks in southern USA? What's wrong with the French or Japanese or something?


To that guy^ 

I'm an electronic engineer, I can't see, smell, hear, touch or taste electrons but I know they exist without having a belief system 

People usually use air as an example, but I'm pushing the envelope, deal with it.


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## 8Fingers (Dec 9, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> People usually use air as an example, but I'm pushing the envelope, deal with it.



Yeah and I always thought how stupid that example is!
They use it because they desperatly need something to reply.
We can touch/feel/breath air, air move things in front of our eyes like trees etc and we can't live without it so air is not something supernatural


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## Explorer (Dec 9, 2011)

I like the idea of someone using electrons as something which you can't feel. I think I have an excellent refutation for that... let me dig out my stun gun... Okay, get ready for a little stroll down what I like to call... ELECTRIC AVENUE!

*laugh*

@Rectifyer - should you request a name change to "Rectify-ee?" 

*laugh*


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## oddcam (Dec 10, 2011)

I'll play devil's advocate here and throw this in:

If intelligent life is as rare as the experts say it is, then wouldn't it make sense for aliens to be watching us? Our limited knowledge of physics leaves plenty of room for the possibility of interstellar travel. If the universe really is as big as theory says, there should be, no MUST be life out there with the capability and the will to go exploring and observe what's out there.
Think of it as humans observing colonies of animals or insects, but not interfering (we do this all the time.) Why shouldn't other life forms have the drive to explore and observe? If they did, and most places in the universe are just lifeless, then we should expect that Earth is more interesting to monitor, for whatever reason, than elsewhere.
Hence, we should _expect_ that we are not alone.

I'm not trying to justify everyone who says they saw a UFO, rednecks and fighter pilots alike. But, it's worth considering that millions of people claim to have seen them, and I'd hate to write off millions of people as being just plain retarded.


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## Explorer (Dec 10, 2011)

oddcam said:


> (I)t's worth considering that millions of people claim to have seen them, and I'd hate to write off millions of people as being just plain retarded.



Maybe not retarded, but you hating for some many people to be mistaken or misguided didn't stop the Inquisition, the New World witch trials, or Nazi Germany from coming into being. 

It's interesting that you bring up that point of view, though. I regularly have to explain the following to friends of mine:

So, you really like a group of people.

You notice that their house is on fire.

You tell them their house is on fire, even though they seem to not understand. You keep trying, even though they get more and more hostile. 

Your motivation is good, but they just don't want to hear it.

That's how many fundamentalist Christians view those who haven't accepted Christ. They love you, and want to tell you that you're in mortal danger. They hate to think you'd be so misguided that you haven't accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. 

Interestingly, the main opposition to evolution comes from religious fundamentalists, just as the main group of abductees seem to come from the southern United States. If all the activity seems to be located in certain belief structures... I'd say it's more likely the belief structure causing the phenomena.


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## K-Roll (Dec 10, 2011)

why do aliens abduct only ugly people.. i mean I wish I were an extraterrestrial, I'd go kidnap Angelina Jolie 10 years ago and I'd do her every night without her even noticing


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Dec 10, 2011)

Just discovered this thread and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. 

I do believe that somewhere in the (almost) infinite universe we reside in that there is life somewhere. However I doubt that it would even be possible for them to contact us or even reach us.

The thing that I vehemently disagree with is the idea that they would be humanoids. We are humanoids due to thousands of years of evolution and how our climate and environment shaped us. I find it extremely hard to believe that beings outside of our solar system would be similar to us in any way. 

Think of how a difference in oxygen or atmosphere or gravity even would affect a species over thousands perhaps millions of years. In my opinion there is an extremely small chance that they could even form similar thoughts as us because they may not even have brains, or a sense of direction, or balance, or even a sense of time, because they would be formed differently because of evolution. 

In closing, aliens very well may exist, but the chance that they would be similar to us in any way is stupefyingly minute.


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## The Reverend (Dec 10, 2011)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> Just discovered this thread and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.
> 
> I do believe that somewhere in the (almost) infinite universe we reside in that there is life somewhere. However I doubt that it would even be possible for them to contact us or even reach us.
> 
> ...



I'm reminded of some Green Lantern story where one of the Lanterns comes from a place without light, so the color green is meaningless, and the creature said the Green Lantern Oath in music or something. I don't remember the details because I'm not really a DC fan, I just read it online somewhere. 

Anyways, I totally agree. Look at all the life on earth throughout its history; there's nothing to really indicate that humanoid forms are the pinnacle of evolution. I've actually had a bone to pick with scientists for some time concerning their boner for the Goldilocks Zone and water, because I've read some interesting stuff about other fairly extreme possibilities concerning what sorts of elements lifeforms could be made of. 

Also, while no one here is saying science is infallible, I'd venture to say that it certainly gives us a better idea than baseless fantasies about what could be. There's nothing wrong with talking about it, as fantasies do occasionally become validated fact (think Icarus), but before going all out on them, you have to understand that they are purely made up.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 10, 2011)

I am an agnostic atheist and no, I don`t believe in UFO abductions, especially the ones that mention probes and greys and all that other crap. Now I`m not as old as everyone on this thread, but from my limited experience I know that there are certain times "missing time" occurs and is totally explainable. I just find it hard to believe all the people who have been abducted seem to be from the states, especially in the south and have well...very poor general knowledge. I don`t know why aliens would travel so far from somewhere to abduct and probe people with poor knowledge about our earth. Unless they`re trying to harvest clones of low IQ humans to use as bait or resources. 

I`ve done many entheogens/chemicals and I`ve sometimes come across visions of Jesus, Aliens and strangely even Meshuggah. Even though they seem so real, I know all it was, was just fiction. I`ve had dreams that were so real, that I found myself crying, or in wierd states. Still I can differentiate between what happened, and what was bluff. Anyways thats my small take on my experience. 

Also whats with everyone trying to find life thats similar to what we have on earth on other bodies? I really don`t understand that. We have organisms that have different makeup, and breathe sulphur/other elements. With that, why are we focusing on discovering water, carbon-based lifeforms? I think we need to consider the fact that other lifeforms may be composed of something different, so the tools and equipment used in space exploration need to be capable to find those traces.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Dec 12, 2011)

I completely and fully believe in Aliens helping man-kind.


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## The Reverend (Dec 13, 2011)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> I completely and fully believe in Aliens helping man-kind.



Belief is dangerous. It's not a suspicion, or a claim based on facts, but instead it's a stronger form of wishful thinking, a solidified wish, so to speak, that we can act on without needing results. 

Of course, this isn't a religion thread, so your belief in this specifically isn't dangerous, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.


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## 8Fingers (Dec 13, 2011)

Just like I said, aliens are not a belief, if you see or speak to them they are here, if not......they're not.
Believing = basing your attitudes in something that could never happen


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## Rook (Dec 13, 2011)

Explorer said:


> I like the idea of someone using electrons as something which you can't feel. I think I have an excellent refutation for that... let me dig out my stun gun... Okay, get ready for a little stroll down what I like to call... ELECTRIC AVENUE!
> 
> *laugh*
> 
> ...



You don't feel electrons, you feel a shock and probably a burn caused by something we decided was a bunch of negatively charged, subatomic particles. Electricity could be made out of water and dried fruit on a tiny scale for all anybody cares when they're being electrocuted 

That's kinda like saying you know photons exist because light does, which would be inaccurate.


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## vampiregenocide (Dec 13, 2011)

Iamasingularity said:


> Also whats with everyone trying to find life thats similar to what we have on earth on other bodies? I really don`t understand that. We have organisms that have different makeup, and breathe sulphur/other elements. With that, why are we focusing on discovering water, carbon-based lifeforms? I think we need to consider the fact that other lifeforms may be composed of something different, so the tools and equipment used in space exploration need to be capable to find those traces.



The researchers have stated this, but it makes sense to start with what we know. If you're trying to find life across the vast expanse of space, it makes sense to have set criteria to narrow your field.


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## AySay (Dec 13, 2011)

oddcam said:


> I'd hate to write off millions of people as being just plain retarded.



Not to offend, but...religion.


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## Dvaienat (Dec 13, 2011)

I wouldn't say I _believe_ in extraterrestrials seeing as belief without evidence is irrational in my mind. However, I would say that there are a lot of things which point to the existence of aliens. Such as the astonishing number of UFO sightings, abductions, visitations, cave drawings etcetera. All far too common to pass off as bullshit. Not to mention the improbability that Earth is the only planet holding life, seeing as there _are_ planets capable of sustaining life. I've personally never seen a UFO, nor have I had any form of paranormal experience for that matter. But that doesn't mean I'm going to rule out the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life altogether. In fact, I'll say it is highly probable.


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## Varcolac (Dec 13, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> I'm reminded of some Green Lantern story where one of the Lanterns comes from a place without light, so the color green is meaningless, and the creature said the Green Lantern Oath in music or something. I don't remember the details because I'm not really a DC fan, I just read it online somewhere.



"In loudest din or hush profound,
My ears catch evil's slightest sound.
Let those who toll out evil's knell,
Beware my power: the F Sharp Bell!"

'Cause F# is like, the willpower note for Rot Lop Fan's blind species from the darkest sectors of the universe. Willpower: can it djent?


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## Explorer (Dec 13, 2011)

Fun111 said:


> You don't feel electrons, you feel a shock and probably a burn caused by something we decided was a bunch of negatively charged, subatomic particles. Electricity could be made out of water and dried fruit, on a tiny scale for all anybody cares when they're being electrocuted
> 
> That's kinda like saying you know photons exist because light does, which would be inaccurate.



Ah, the opposite of the old "entities must not be multiplied needlessly" argument!

I disagree in the first place that one can only count on what can be directly observed, but in this case, you're taking an observation (the visible crackling of the electricity, a miniature lightning bolt) and suddenly attributing it to unseen fruit, which is going even further from the original premise... as the dried fruit and water cannot be seen in this case. 

What was your point?

----

Okay, so taking Dvaienat's argument a little further, that so many people can't be wrong, let's fix this...



Dvaienat said:


> I wouldn't say I _believe_ in extraterrestrials seeing as belief without evidence is irrational in my mind. However, I would say that there are a lot of things which point to the existence of aliens. Such as the astonishing number of *claimed* UFO sightings, *claimed *abductions, *claimed *visitations, cave drawings which some *claimed to be about aliens* etcetera. All far too common, *like claimed direct revelations from various deities like Yahweh/Allah for Christianity, Xenu for the Scientologists, The angel Moroni for the Mormons, and so on*, to pass off as bullshit. ...I've personally never seen a UFO, nor have I had any form of paranormal experience or *had one God Almighty or another (choose your religion of choice) single me out to hand out Holy and Unerring Revelation* for that matter. But that doesn't mean I'm going to rule out the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life *or one Deity in particular* altogether. In fact, I'll say it is highly probable.



That's an interesting assertion, that a large group of people can't be wrong. 

Going to a current example, there are so many people who *did* believe in evil witches, and many still do in many parts of Africa. Hey, if they have enough suspicion to kill someone because enough people know they've seen these people practicing witchcraft, they can't be wrong, right? *laugh*

I'm so glad we no longer believe in blood letting or witches or placebo-driven medicine. Science is a tool humans use to eliiminate self deception, and the reason it was developed was because humans are *prone* to self deception. Even now, there are often reports of UFOs for which the causes are known, but until the actual records and the reports from less educated or ignorant observers are put together, a lot of UFO believers hold to the belief that what is unidentified to them is actually of alien origin, instead of just being something they couldn't identify. *That's* what the issue is, that people go with this:







(It's always great when I can reuse something I've already posted to the Meme thread. *laugh*)


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## Jakke (Dec 14, 2011)

Just realized that black woman has no idea what speciation is.... How could she have had babies with a male from a different species? 
Listen kids, before you make up a fantasy like this, read up on basic natural sciences...


I'll just leave this here:


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## Dvaienat (Dec 14, 2011)

Explorer said:


> That's an interesting assertion, that a large group of people can't be wrong.
> 
> Going to a current example, there are so many people who *did* believe in evil witches, and many still do in many parts of Africa. Hey, if they have enough suspicion to kill someone because enough people know they've seen these people practicing witchcraft, they can't be wrong, right? *laugh*
> 
> I'm so glad we no longer believe in blood letting or witches or placebo-driven medicine. Science is a tool humans use to eliiminate self deception, and the reason it was developed was because humans are *prone* to self deception. Even now, there are often reports of UFOs for which the causes are known, but until the actual records and the reports from less educated or ignorant observers are put together, a lot of UFO believers hold to the belief that what is unidentified to them is actually of alien origin, instead of just being something they couldn't identify. *That's* what the issue is, that people go with this:


 
The issue of people claiming to have had visitations of Jesus, Buddha, God etcetera are a slightly different matter to extraterrestrials. The amount of delusional people claiming of these visitations of deities is very small. Furthermore, there is not a single shred of evidence for or even indicative of the existence of a deity/deities. 

In the case of extraterrestrials, there are countless stories of alien abductions, UFO sightings, UFO crashes, government coverups to unsolved photographs of UFOs and even photographs of alien bodies. Collected up, they make a pretty good case for the existence of extraterrestrials. 

I'm not actually one to say the collective must be right. Quite the opposite actually. I'm rather going on the basis of evidence or that which points to the existence of aliens.


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## pink freud (Dec 14, 2011)

There's a chapter or two on alien abductions.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 15, 2011)

Jakke said:


> Just realized that black woman has no idea what speciation is.... How could she have had babies with a male from a different species?
> Listen kids, before you make up a fantasy like this, read up on basic natural sciences...



Who knows maybe the DNA of the alien mutated and adapted to the human counterpart, lol. Just like fake cannabinoids attaching themselves to receptors in the brain. I laughed at the drawing she showed.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 15, 2011)

Dvaienat said:


> The issue of people claiming to have had visitations of Jesus, Buddha, God etcetera are a slightly different matter to extraterrestrials. The amount of delusional people claiming of these visitations of deities is very small. Furthermore, there is not a single shred of evidence for or even indicative of the existence of a deity/deities.
> 
> In the case of extraterrestrials, there are countless stories of alien abductions, UFO sightings, UFO crashes, government coverups to unsolved photographs of UFOs and even photographs of alien bodies. Collected up, they make a pretty good case for the existence of extraterrestrials.
> 
> I'm not actually one to say the collective must be right. Quite the opposite actually. I'm rather going on the basis of evidence or that which points to the existence of aliens.



I see where your going, but the evidence that has been presented and available is all really unreliable. We got greys, reptilians, chupacabras and ET 
all over the internet. I can`t speak for all the cave carvings and all because its a real long time ago, but just because the drawing look like aliens, doesn`t mean they are. For all I know they could just be drunk natives with clay pots over their heads! Most interviews and alien encounters are soo biased/have little support that they cannot stand as credible evidence. Like the video I posted. The woman was talking about how aliens had probed her while she encountered aliens. The staff of the show then showed her a silver long metallic looking probe. She gleamed at it in amazement saying that it was almost the same as the one she was probed it. The staff then reveals that it was a electronic dildo painted silver..... Now cmon, you can`t expect critical thinkers to take those kind of accounts seriously. All the UFO shapes vary, many have been proven to be fake and all of these accounts/pieces of evidence have been compiling since the movies came out. If it were a timeline the correlation would be clearly there. I`m not saying aliens are fake, blah blah blah. I`m just saying the evidence we`re presented with is a joke, and jokes can`t prove crap.


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## Jakke (Dec 15, 2011)

The most popular theory among psychologists right now is that abductees are maschocists that get off on being tied down, probed and humiliated. That is, they make up this stuff and make it suit their preferances.

When I got to know this, and re-watched that episode of Bullshit, they sure seemed very happy when speaking about getting probed....


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## Explorer (Dec 15, 2011)

Dvaienat said:


> The issue of people claiming to have had visitations of Jesus, Buddha, God etcetera are a slightly different matter to extraterrestrials. The amount of delusional people claiming of these visitations of deities is very small. Furthermore, there is not a single shred of evidence for or even indicative of the existence of a deity/deities.
> 
> In the case of extraterrestrials, there are countless stories of alien abductions, UFO sightings, UFO crashes, government coverups to unsolved photographs of UFOs and even photographs of alien bodies. Collected up, they make a pretty good case for the existence of extraterrestrials.
> 
> I'm not actually one to say the collective must be right. Quite the opposite actually. I'm rather going on the basis of evidence or that which points to the existence of aliens.



Wait a minute... so you're saying that all those who see Jesus or Mary in a tortilla or a Pop Tart should be dismissed because others have a rational explanation, but all those who claim to have a alien-related experience shouldn't have that same burden of proof on them?

Logic fail.

No, anecdotal evidence doesn't make a good case for the factual basis of anything. However, if you feel there is other evidence which points to the existence of alien visitation, why not post some? 

And, of course, remember that you seem to want us to reject representational art of deities like Zeus and the like...






...and there is more testomonial evidence regarding the various gods than aliens, so physical evidence seems to be paramount, no?

(One true believer leaves, and another emerges. Amazing, isn't it?)


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 15, 2011)

Jakke said:


> The most popular theory among psychologists right now is that abductees are maschocists that get off on being tied down, probed and humiliated. That is, they make up this stuff and make it suit their preferances.
> 
> When I got to know this, and re-watched that episode of Bullshit, they sure seemed very happy when speaking about getting probed....



Thats a probable theory, but I don`t know if that would apply to all of them..
Thanks for the posts guys, its good to get more info and statistics on this. I`m looking for a graph that would show how these people can be divided into groups based on a psychologist`s approach. 

Also links to the works/sites/references of the stuff presented in your posts are much appreciated.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 15, 2011)




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## Spaceman_Spiff (Dec 15, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> The researchers have stated this, but it makes sense to start with what we know. If you're trying to find life across the vast expanse of space, it makes sense to have set criteria to narrow your field.



But maybe narrowing the field is what will prevent us from progress. Finding life is a broad statement in and of itself, so why should we constrict our search to something very unlikely? If you want to find food because you're hungry, why would you only look for ostrich toes?

Not saying I disagree with you, just presenting a different argument. 



> I wouldn't say I _believe_ in extraterrestrials seeing as belief without evidence is irrational in my mind. However, I would say that there are a lot of things which point to the existence of aliens. Such as the astonishing number of UFO sightings, abductions, visitations, cave drawings etcetera. All far too common to pass off as bullshit. Not to mention the improbability that Earth is the only planet holding life, seeing as there _are_ planets capable of sustaining life. I've personally never seen a UFO, nor have I had any form of paranormal experience for that matter. But that doesn't mean I'm going to rule out the possibility of intelligent extraterrestrial life altogether. In fact, I'll say it is highly probable.



You say there has been a high number of sightings, which is true but think of that number compared to how many humans are alive on earth right now. 

Just because say one million sightings have occurred, (that is about double the worldwide estimate over the last fifty years) doesn't mean that it's true. If far less than 1 percent of the population of the world claim to have seen UFOs, how is that grounds to just say "lots of people believe it, so it must be true"?

Also remember that when someone claims to see a UFO, more often than not its just an UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECT. Not an alien spacecraft. It could be a plane a guy built in the back of his yard with Maguyver and popsicle sticks, or a government drone (mannn), or even a dragon. All of those can be unidentified flying objects.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 15, 2011)

Man I totally agree with Spaceman Spiff. Its like Darwin all over again. If Darwin was only looking for creatures that were similar to the native ones in his country, then he would basically be ignoring all those different species. We have to assume that the ET`s out there are different from us in many ways, since they might have gone through evolution differently.

Also UFO`s don`t necessarily mean that they go into the Alien category. Its like the Iranian`s reactions when they 1st saw the the US drones fly over. They thought it was an Alien, but it was just a aircraft they weren`t familiar with. Its really common for people to mistake even general airplanes as Alien`s due to the fact that the weather conditions are bad, and the only thing they can see is the lights. And without being able to see the body of the craft, they believe the lights are floating/flying/zooming away/etc.


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## Jakke (Dec 15, 2011)

Iamasingularity said:


> Thats a probable theory, but I don`t know if that would apply to all of them..
> Thanks for the posts guys, its good to get more info and statistics on this. I`m looking for a graph that would show how these people can be divided into groups based on a psychologist`s approach.
> 
> Also links to the works/sites/references of the stuff presented in your posts are much appreciated.



Not all of them, you can't pull all over one ledge. But apparently the trend is maschocistic tendencies (more than among other groups)

Link for your reading pleasure:

Psychology of alien abductions


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 15, 2011)

Jakke said:


> Not all of them, you can't pull all over one ledge. But apparently the trend is maschocistic tendencies (more than among other groups)
> 
> Link for your reading pleasure:
> 
> Psychology of alien abductions



Thank you for the link! I will read it carefully.


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## Rook (Dec 15, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Ah, the opposite of the old "entities must not be multiplied needlessly" argument!
> 
> I disagree in the first place that one can only count on what can be directly observed, but in this case, you're taking an observation (the visible crackling of the electricity, a miniature lightning bolt) and suddenly attributing it to unseen fruit, which is going even further from the original premise... as the dried fruit and water cannot be seen in this case.
> 
> What was your point?





I love/hate you so much


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## Dvaienat (Dec 15, 2011)

Explorer said:


> Wait a minute... so you're saying that all those who see Jesus or Mary in a tortilla or a Pop Tart should be dismissed because others have a rational explanation, but all those who claim to have a alien-related experience shouldn't have that same burden of proof on them?
> 
> Logic fail.
> 
> ...


 
I'm not saying there's _sound _evidence towards the existence of aliens, I'm saying there is far more that hints towards their existence than there is for the existence of deities. Unless there is a government disclosure or aliens reveal themselves to the population in public, there never will be any evidence. Just indicators pointing toward their existence. This is not 'logic fail' as you put it. Apart from people's claimed visions of deities and that which is claimed in holy books, there are no indications whatsoever that they are real. While there may well be a rational explanation for some of those who claim of their alien abduction (e.g. delusion), there are far too many cases for me to simply ignore and pass off especially when added to the other aforementioned indicators. That is why I feel the concept of extraterrestrials is a far more valid and reasonable concept than religion.


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## Jakke (Dec 15, 2011)

Iamasingularity said:


> Thank you for the link! I will read it carefully.



Do it! 

I found it very interesting, and, no matter how much I love P&T, it's a much more scientific analysis


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## Explorer (Dec 15, 2011)

First off, I'm just adding a few spaces and numbers to your post to make it easier to parse out. I didn't make any changes to the content.



Dvaienat said:


> I'm not saying there's _sound _evidence towards the existence of aliens, I'm saying there is far more that hints towards their existence than there is for the existence of deities.
> Unless there is a government disclosure or aliens reveal themselves to the population in public, there never will be any evidence. Just indicators pointing toward their existence.
> This is not 'logic fail' as you put it.
> Apart from people's claimed visions of deities and that which is claimed in holy books, there are no indications whatsoever that they are real.
> ...





The whole UFO phenomenon is relatively recent, and there are far more "hints" regarding deities than UFOs. Just looking at Christianity, there is far more hints of the existence of a divine Jesus than of UFOs.
Why must disclosure come from the government or aliens themselves? Is the only reason we'll never know because of a perfect conspiracy? There's even less evidence of such a perfect human conspiracy than of deities or alien visitation. I post a lot about the need to keep expanding perfect human conspiracies... which, since I only do so when someone starts talking about things which require that conspiracy, is more a commentary about how often that gets posted here. *laugh*
What I'm referring to as "logic fail" is the claim that one must discard evidence, not based on how reliable it is, but because it deals with one subject rather than another. There is far less evidence of alien visitation than of deities, and "hints" and outright claims of Divine intervention going back to prehistory. (Fortunately, the deity stuff is often contradictory, and monotheism fortunately limits the ability to claim that other religions are true. You see that same mechanism in that video, with the contradictory claims regarding the aliens.)
Again, no evidence has come out which I'm aware of which is stronger for alien visitation than for deities. I look forward to something which has appeared which is more than a claim, more than a hint. Until then, this provisional claim is not true.
You keep mentioning evidential indicators which add to the anecdotal evidence. Again, I'm unaware of any proof of alien visition which rises above the Shroud of Turin, the Virgin of Guadalupe, millenia of saints' relics, people who point their cameras at the sun to take pictures of the Virgin Mary, millenia of documented and investigated miracles (you should do some reading in how Catholic sainthood is established), and so on. However, I still look forward to someithing which is more solid than these things.
You basically rejected everything which is on an equal level, and then say that your artificial restrictions on anecdotal evidence, without physical evidence, has proven your point. It seems to me that you have your particular belief system, and so you're engaging in the typical belief system of most people, but with alien visitation instead of a particular deity.

I suggest that, rather than making an assertion that there is stronger evidence for your viewpoint than for the religious viewpoint, you just post the evidence you're referring to. Just saying "more evidence! more evidence!" without putting it forward just makes it seem that none is forthcoming. 

As always, I look forward to the possibility of something factual.

Cheers!


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## K3V1N SHR3DZ (Dec 15, 2011)

Anyone who actually believes in Alien Abduction needs very badly to read
"The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" by Carl Sagan.


http://www.philosophy.thecastsite.com/readings/godwantsyoudead/demonhauntedworld.pdf

Scroll down to chapter 4 "Aliens". Read that shit. 
Then go to chapter 12 "The Fine Art of Baloney Detection". Read that shit. Twice.


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## Dvaienat (Dec 15, 2011)

Explorer said:


> First off, I'm just adding a few spaces and numbers to your post to make it easier to parse out. I didn't make any changes to the content.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Alright, I'll post my reply in numbers. 

1. UFOs have been sighted for millenia. From the days of the Bible (just look at paintings from that day, they often depict flying saucers beaming lights) to the 15th century to the present day, UFOs have been spotted and recorded. Though numbers have risen in the present, perhaps due to people gaining interest and thus faking sightings. The Shroud of Turin was investigated by scientists a couple of years ago and through carbon dating deemed to be from the 13th century. It was apparently faked to gain money from pilgrims coming to see it, IIRC. Apart from this, I can't see any sort of evidence going in favour of the idea of a divine Jesus. Everything written in the Bible about Jesus' miracles and resurrection is most likely fake to give validity to a divine Jesus. 

2. I didn't mean to imply government conspiracy. Those were just two forms of disclosure I though of off the top of my head. There _could_ be a conspiracy keeping us from knowing of aliens' existence, however. But it isn't an idea in the forefront of my mind. 

3. I wouldn't say I am 'discarding evidence' for that of deities or other supernatural phenomena. Just that in my experience far more hints to the existence of aliens, not to mention extraterrestrial life being a far more rational and plausible idea than the idea of deities or 'god'. I will explain why I feel this way a couple of numbers down. 

4&5. As I've previously stated, unexplainable UFO sightings, documented alien sightings, UFO crashes covered up by the government, alien bodies, ancient aliens etcetera are evidential indicators. While these indicators cannot be proven to be true, the fact they occur so often and have persisted to do so for so long are also indicators. I'm sure a fair few can be understood with a rational explanation. Religious experiences are a rarity in the present day. Documented miracles could be put down to people's lack of scientific knowledge at that time. The Shroud of Turin has been dated to the 13thC. The Virgin Mary in the sun may well be a light effect. Saints' relics such as parts of the manger or Jesus's cross aren't evidence for the existence of a divine Jesus. It is most probable that Jesus existed and was crucified, and Saints' relics only go in favour of that. 

6. As for evidence outweighing religious evidence, I would propose the painting "The Madonna with Saint Giovannio", and various other ancient paintings depicting the modern image of a flying saucer. Today, many UFO sightings are put down to the government testing new aircraft. The same can't be said for ancient times when such craft had not been invented. 

There's also stories of astronauts sighting UFOs. Astronauts aren't delusional - you have to take their claims seriously. Not to mention the SETI signal of 2003, which allegedly picked up signals from an alien planet. 

Of course, there isn't anything factual as of yet, and I too hope there will be in the future since extraterrestrial life has always been a concept that fascinated me.


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## 7STRINGWARRIOR (Dec 15, 2011)

I personally have had hundreds of UFO sightings off the Southwest coast of Florida. Saw My first full on flying saucer above Plano, Texas, last year. Never had a single sighting in Michigan. If you don't believe they are here and want proof, Take a trip to Venice, Florida and sit in a chair on the beach, look up towards the stars. You will be surprised by how many you will see in one night. 

As far as the abduction goes, who knows. I'm always curious who is operating these ships, they may be remote. Until the day I can sit down, crack open a beer, and talk with one I will never know the light of day.


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## The Reverend (Dec 15, 2011)

If we're going on things like word of mouth, then anything paranormal or supernatural exists. There's no scientific basis for the existence of ghosts, yet millions of Americans believe in them, either because they've had some experience that scientists can't replicate, or because someone they hold in high regard believed in ghosts.

Anecdotal evidence can't _really_ be considered evidence once a matter is officially investigated. It can surely be used to form a hypothesis, but it's not evidence in the sense that it exists and can be understood to point towards a specific conclusion.

I am quite sure that life exists on other planets, however I am not sure that they've visited us is some Stargate SG-1 capacity over the centuries. Why were ancient images supposedly showing proof of celestial visitors never mentioned as abnormal until now? I think this concept of ancient aliens and alien abduction is a case of trying to support a hypothesis through stretching facts, instead of following factual evidence to a conclusion.


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## Explorer (Dec 15, 2011)

@Dvaienat - I'm glad we agree on the Shroud of Turin. My reasons for bringing it up is that the Shroud of Turin is a piece of physical evidence, as opposed to a piece of anecdotal evidence. 

Whenever someone claims to have physical evidence of a UFO being of extraterrestrial origin, one of two things happens:

The possessor refuses to have the object be tested
The object is tested and turns out to be terrestrial, and often fake. 

So, that leaves only the anecdotal evidence, which, no matter how many people claim to have seen something, isn't really evidence at all. 

Basically, you're making a claim which is extraordinary, that extraterrestrials are visiting the earth. This isn't like an ordinary claim ("It's raining outside!"), so the proof has to be correspondingly stronger. 

You keep falling back on your assertion that physical evidence most likely won't be forthcoming. Well, okay, but then don't claim there is stronger evidence for alien visitation than for deities. There are many more religious believers in the world than believers in alien visitation, and that doesn't make Xenu and Scientology (to use one religious example) any more credible than other religions. 

----

This, incidentally, is also the genius behind the James Randi Education Fund Million Dollar Challenge: We don't need elaborate explanations, just give us a successful demonstration. 

People didn't believe that the Coelecanth had really survived from prehistoric times until the present day, but several being found demonstrated that they did indeed exist. 

Einstein predicted that a straight beam of light appears to curve when space-time curves in the area through which light is traveling. He managed to demonstrate that.

Evidence is an amazing thing. Although one can theorize until one is blue in the face, until there is actual evidence, it's just a theory in search of any actual evidence.

Yes, people make mistakes. You keep asserting that, if so many people claim that what they have seen was proof of alien intelligence, then one cannot discard those assertions. However, as time has gone on, many classic UFO sightings have been cleared up with contemporary records of the events. Even today, many people make breathless reports of flying saucers, and then the real story comes out, often involving aircraft being observed by those who are ignorant of what they've seen. When they don't know how something can appear to move in different directions when airborne, then it gets back to (yes, again) this meme:







You probably don't follow the literature of UFO sightings, but there are huge numbers of cases in the past decade where, with the help of social media, stories start to swell and spread about alien UFO sightings... and then, soon after, it turns out it was a plane. People who are ignorant (in the truest sense of the word, meaning they are not knowledgeable) can't imagine how a plane receding into the distance might look like it's staying motionless in the air, or (if it's daytime) how a plane might look like an object changing its shape. 

----

Anyway, it's worth observing that I have no objection to you believing in either UFOs as evidence of alien visitatino or in a deity, or in both. I just think it's also worth observing that your assertions that there is a lot of evidence is a bit of an exaggeration.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Dec 15, 2011)

EDIT: I'm dumb and should learn to read more.


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## The Reverend (Dec 15, 2011)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> Not trying to stray too far off topic but you do know that the shroud of turin is a proven hoax right?



That was his point, brother. It was touted as evidence of Jesus's existence, and when put to the test, it was debunked.

He's saying that physical evidence either supports a claim, or disproves a claim, but either way it's better than anecdotal evidence. 

Also, how the hell are you typing so much, Explorer? You've only got one hand!


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## Explorer (Dec 15, 2011)

I've been aggressively following the stretching regimen I've been given, and got the okay to type. I switched to a low-travel keyboard as well, which means my fingers move very little to type. 

Yes, my point about the Shroud of Turin is that it is a form of physical evidence which can be tested, as opposed to being anecdotal. I'm aware it's a hoax, just as every physical piece of evidence has proved to be which was supposed to support alien visitation and which was actually tested.


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## 7STRINGWARRIOR (Dec 16, 2011)

Like I said, anyone with doubt can go to the beach in Venice, FL and watch them over the Gulf. You wont be seeing any secret military aircraft. 95% of the UFO's I've seen could run figure 8s around our fastest aircraft. Seeing is believing. They are definitely out there, as far has who they are, I have no Idea.

In September I was dating a girl who wasn't a believer. Decided to take her out to the pier for some "shark fishing". She saw too much and had a full on meltdown. 

I have a suspicion that the Mutation from Carbon 12 to Carbon 7 has to do with how this kind of flight can be achieved. Carbon 12 is 666, 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons. Carbon 7 is 616, older versions of revelations used 616 as the number of the beast.

Anyone can PM me for private discussion.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 16, 2011)

7STRINGWARRIOR said:


> Like I said, anyone with doubt can go to the beach in Venice, FL and watch them over the Gulf. You wont be seeing any secret military aircraft. 95% of the UFO's I've seen could run figure 8s around our fastest aircraft. Seeing is believing. They are definitely out there, as far has who they are, I have no Idea.
> 
> In September I was dating a girl who wasn't a believer. Decided to take her out to the pier for some "shark fishing". She saw too much and had a full on meltdown.
> 
> ...



Ummm... Are you joking? Being Sarcastic? Trolling or being REALLYx2 serious?


----------



## Spaceman_Spiff (Dec 16, 2011)

7STRINGWARRIOR said:


> Like I said, anyone with doubt can go to the beach in Venice, FL and watch them over the Gulf. You wont be seeing any secret military aircraft. 95% of the UFO's I've seen could run figure 8s around our fastest aircraft. Seeing is believing. They are definitely out there, as far has who they are, I have no Idea.
> 
> In September I was dating a girl who wasn't a believer. Decided to take her out to the pier for some "shark fishing". She saw too much and had a full on meltdown.
> 
> ...



Sarcasm is pretty difficult to convey over written (typed?) word. 

insanity however...


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## Jakke (Dec 16, 2011)

7STRINGWARRIOR said:


> Like I said, anyone with doubt can go to the beach in Venice, FL and watch them over the Gulf. You wont be seeing any secret military aircraft. 95% of the UFO's I've seen could run figure 8s around our fastest aircraft. Seeing is believing. They are definitely out there, as far has who they are, I have no Idea.
> 
> In September I was dating a girl who wasn't a believer. Decided to take her out to the pier for some "shark fishing". She saw too much and had a full on meltdown.
> 
> ...



Yeah, how much chemistry did you take in school? Carbon 7 does not exist.. The smallest isotope of carbon is carbon 8, and that is so unstable that it decays after 2.0x10^-21 seconds.
It is not naturally occuring either, so you would need a nuclear reactor to even get a trace amount. 

I am quite interested how cosmic flight can be achieved with an non-existant carbon atom... Maybe they are using the improbability drive?

But I have actually never seen anyone link atoms to revelations, interesting hypothesis... Or any part of the bible for that matters.... Interesting for sure


Yeah, you're probably trolling.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Dec 16, 2011)

Just found this

Believe in UFOs? [VIDEO]

I love Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson


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## Alberto7 (Dec 16, 2011)

^  That was thoroughly entertaining!


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## Explorer (Dec 16, 2011)

I didn't respond to the original post here, but since even more claims have been made, the following quote contains material from both of 7STRINGWARRIOR's posts, changed on with regard to order and formatting in order to faciliate my response. If anyone believes I've altered the meaning by so doing, let us all know.



7STRINGWARRIOR said:


> *I personally have had hundreds of UFO sightings* off the Southwest coast of Florida. Saw My first full on flying saucer above Plano, Texas, last year. Never had a single sighting in Michigan. If you don't believe they are here and want proof, Take a trip to Venice, Florida and sit in a chair on the beach, look up towards the stars. You will be surprised by how many you will see in one night.
> 
> Like I said, anyone with doubt can go to the beach in Venice, FL and watch them over the Gulf. *You wont be seeing any secret military aircraft. 95% of the UFO's I've seen could run figure 8s around our fastest aircraft. Seeing is believing. They are definitely out there, as far has who they are, I have no Idea.*
> 
> ...



Out of curiosity, how much training to you have in aircraft observation? In chemistry? In any form of training where one learns to discard the bad in favor of the good?

I heartily believe the underlined statement, that you have no idea regarding what these things are which you're observing. From your perspective, they are definitely Unidentified Flying Objects. The question in my mind is, would these things be Identified Flying Objects to someone who did have the training you lack?

You're making bizarre claims which pertain to the well-studied field of chemistry, and those claims boil down to you using a few actual words of science to make outright false claims. I've been fortunate to be in the presence of people who toss in words in that manner to give their ideas the gloss of _scientism_, but you might have noticed by now that those who already know something about the science of chemistry are rejecting your pseudoscientific veneer of scientism. 

I was about to suggest you do some reading, but I don't even know where to begin. It was so easy for you to falsely assert the existence of an impossible form of carbon that I suspect this is the beginning of tinfoil hat territory. 

Lastly... you had to go there. What is the obsession with having to make various forms of pseudoscience rely on appeals to authority? That you had to incorporate both the popular conception of the number of the Beast (666) and yet also shout out to the actual number from Revelations (616) is hilarious. Just had to cover those bases!

It can be disappointing when a group of people aren't as impressed by scientism as that girl, but if it works for you, I suggest you take that presentation back to where people are less educated. 

----

And, just because I love this meme, I have to point out that what it represents has surfaced again:


----------



## Alberto7 (Dec 16, 2011)

Explorer said:


>



I've never seen a better use for a meme. And you nailed it every single time you used it, too hahaha. It's the most concise way of rephrasing virtually every alien-visitation argument I've ever heard.


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## USMarine75 (Dec 16, 2011)

Carbon 7... haha... what Politifact would say:








Oh well, Carbon 7 is no crazier than Mormons and Scientology I guess...


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 16, 2011)

I would post something, but right now I`m too burned out and gonna pass out any second. I`ll read the posts tomorrow in the morning. And 7stringwarrior I really don`t know what to think, but if your serious watch what Spacemanspiff posted: Believe in UFOs? [VIDEO] just give it a try. Night all.zzZZZ


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## USMarine75 (Dec 16, 2011)

^ I'm calling BS I don't believe in time zones... it's 11:17 AM, bro. Time to wake up, throw on a dirty wife-beater, grab a beer, and watch the chemtrails.


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## Jakke (Dec 16, 2011)

^Time-zones are just a way to keep us from finding out the conspiracy, do you know how frustrating it is to be the only non-sheeple in Sweden? 
I don't live after time-zones, but the rest are just following what the Illuminati wants!

I think the sun is in on it as well..

AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON CHEMTRAILS!
HOW BLIND DO THEY THINK WE ARE??!!


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## Dvaienat (Dec 16, 2011)

7STRINGWARRIOR said:


> Like I said, anyone with doubt can go to the beach in Venice, FL and watch them over the Gulf. You wont be seeing any secret military aircraft. 95% of the UFO's I've seen could run figure 8s around our fastest aircraft. Seeing is believing. They are definitely out there, as far has who they are, I have no Idea.
> 
> In September I was dating a girl who wasn't a believer. Decided to take her out to the pier for some "shark fishing". She saw too much and had a full on meltdown.
> 
> ...


 
The usual response from sceptics of UFOs is that they are government craft being tested. That may well be the case, but I'll refer back to ancient paintings depicting UFOs not to mention sightings of UFOs from those times. Such craft hadn't been invented at the time. This gives incredible validity to the theory that they were and are visitors from other worlds. I'm with you that they're most likely alien craft. 

I was taking you seriously up until the third paragraph. I am certainly not of the belief that aliens or spacecraft speed have anything to do with Satan or Revelations. Rather the fact that the aliens visiting are much more advanced technologically. 

Just out of curiosity, are these typical 'flying saucers' you're seeing, or other craft? I ask since flying saucers are usually the craft depicted in said ancient paintings and UFO reports.


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## The Reverend (Dec 16, 2011)

Dudes...

I'm all for aliens. Really, I am. They rock. Or at least I assume they rock, I have no proof that they exist. 

But to think that a technology by definition at least thousands of years old would be recognizable to us is pure poppycock*. I'm too lazy to Google the Arthur C. Clarke quote, but it's something related to how any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic? That would definitely apply here. 

Alien visitation would probably be unrecognizable to us. They'd have crafts made of materials we haven't even begun to postulate about, much less exceedingly mundane things like flying saucers. Hell, there's nothing that says they would even need vessels. Some sort of cyborg or uploaded intelligence would be ideal. In fact, there's so much speculation that needs to be done that it's incredibly daunting to think about. 

Now, this thread's about abductions, as opposed to ancient aliens, so I'll try to tackle that specific side of the conspiracy. An intelligence advanced enough to reach us would have computers so advanced as to be very likely more advanced than us, making analysis of humans just from DNA more than adequate for whatever purposes they have. A scan of all the bullshit we send out in the form of radio, TV, and satellite signals would reveal our personalities, our science, our history, in short our global culture. There would really not be any cause to constantly abduct people from south of the Mason-Dixon line. 

The thing is, when talking about aliens, so many assumptions have to be made as to render everything utterly truth-less. Aliens, by definition, would be outside our frame of reference, meaning their motives, technology, and likely even their physiology would be mindfucking in a sort of bizarre, eldritch god way. We'll only know that aliens exist when we see them, or they let us see them. Claiming otherwise isn't logical.


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## Necris (Dec 17, 2011)

7STRINGWARRIOR said:


> I have a suspicion that the Mutation from Carbon 12 to Carbon 7 has to do with how this kind of flight can be achieved. Carbon 12 is 666, 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons. Carbon 7 is 616, older versions of revelations used 616 as the number of the beast.
> 
> Anyone can PM me for private discussion.


 If you're going to make a batshit insane claim at least go all the way. Here, I'll finish it for you:

"The difference between 12 and 7 is 5, 5 is the number of points in the pentagram.  Carbon 7 Does exist, the Illuminati don't want the public to know about it so have kept it's existence hidden. Follow the money, follow the money!!!!!"*


*that hurt to type


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 17, 2011)

USMarine75 said:


> ^ I'm calling BS I don't believe in time zones... it's 11:17 AM, bro. Time to wake up, throw on a dirty wife-beater, grab a beer, and watch the chemtrails.





Jakke said:


> ^Time-zones are just a way to keep us from finding out the conspiracy, do you know how frustrating it is to be the only non-sheeple in Sweden?
> I don't live after time-zones, but the rest are just following what the Illuminati wants!
> 
> I think the sun is in on it as well..
> ...



You guys crack me up.


----------



## Explorer (Dec 17, 2011)

Earlier in the thread, I confessed to something akin to _Schadenfreude_ when two people disagree about something for which there isn't any actual evidence:



Explorer said:


> ...I'd love to see some actual evidence, because otherwise all the speculation about alien visitation and possible/probable methods, motives and so forth can equally be used to argue for Yahweh, Odin, elves, the Tooth Fairy and Santa Clause. Evidence is where the rubber meets the road.
> 
> ----
> 
> *Incidentally, one of the simultaneously best and most painful things to watch is when you get true believers in this stuff together to argue, instead of having them talk with unbelievers/skeptics.* The two women who were clear as to the color of the Martians through revelation, and were in complete disagreement, reminds me of when you get Intelligent Design/Creation proponents together, and hear them about how the others in that same broad group are just completely wrong (again, based purely on revelation).



Revelation with evidence has raised its head in this thread as well:



7STRINGWARRIOR said:


> Like I said, anyone with doubt can go to the beach in Venice, FL and watch them over the Gulf. You wont be seeing any secret military aircraft. 95% of the UFO's I've seen could run figure 8s around our fastest aircraft. Seeing is believing. They are definitely out there, as far has who they are, I have no Idea.
> 
> *I have a suspicion that the Mutation from Carbon 12 to Carbon 7 has to do with how this kind of flight can be achieved. Carbon 12 is 666, 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons. Carbon 7 is 616, older versions of revelations used 616 as the number of the beast.*



And then... trouble in Believer Paradise!



Dvaienat said:


> The usual response from sceptics of UFOs is that they are government craft being tested. That may well be the case, but I'll refer back to ancient paintings depicting UFOs not to mention sightings of UFOs from those times. Such craft hadn't been invented at the time. This gives incredible validity to the theory that they were and are visitors from other worlds. I'm with you that they're most likely alien craft.
> 
> *I was taking you seriously up until the third paragraph. I am certainly not of the belief that aliens or spacecraft speed have anything to do with Satan or Revelations. Rather the fact that the aliens visiting are much more advanced technologically. *



*So, here's my question to Dvainet: What evidence do you have that aliens or spacecraft speed have nothing to do with Satan or Revelations?*

Since there is no physical evidence of these things which has withstood the kind of testing and come through as genuine, in the same way the Shroud of Turin failed the test, you're relying on belief and anecdote.

----

BTW, we're a week and a day away from a yearly phenomenon wherein a supernatural being makes his presence known to billions of his worshipers throughout the world. Sure, a lot of those instances and materializations have proven to be hoaxes, but there are enough cases where no evidence came to light that it *wasn't* genuine, no evidence that someone hoaxed it, and no reason to doubt the witnesses just because they might be ignorant of the deeper workings of science.

Even better, even NORAD has been able to track this phenomenon, and has issued public reports.

With all the photos, sightings and evidence which hasn't been debunked, there is so much evidence that there is no way the supernatural being doesn't exist.


----------



## Iamasingularity (Dec 17, 2011)




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## Dvaienat (Dec 17, 2011)

Explorer said:


> *So, here's my question to Dvainet: What evidence do you have that aliens or spacecraft speed have nothing to do with Satan or Revelations?*
> 
> Since there is no physical evidence of these things which has withstood the kind of testing and come through as genuine, in the same way the Shroud of Turin failed the test, you're relying on belief and anecdote.


 
I've no evidence that aliens or spacecraft have nothing to do with Satan or Revelations. I'm rather relying on the fact that I'm an atheist. It's important for me to note that atheism is not belief that there are no deities. It's _lack _of belief in deities. So belief doesn't come into this at all. 

Christianity, in my opinion, is something created by the powerful to control people and exert social goals. Every story has to have a bad guy. This is the role Satan plays in the Bible. Revelations is simply the conclusion of the story. Therefore if extraterrestrials are visiting this planet and the member I replied to is seeing their spacecraft (which I'm not saying I can prove or have belief in), I don't think they're of Satanic origin.


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## Explorer (Dec 17, 2011)

Ah!

I have to ask you then, why do you think we've been subject to alien visitation in the absence of evidence? It sounds like the evidence you've chosen to believe is the same kind of evidence deities have (including Santa Clause). 

Or, to ask in a slightly different way:

Is there any reason for a skeptic to believe in alien visitation (lots of anecdotal evidence and revelation, no physical evidence) but not in a deity (lots of anecdotal evidence and revelation, no physical evidence)?

As Stephen F. Roberts commented in the newsgroups alt.atheism and talk.atheism back in 1994-1995, 



> I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.



In this case, your belief in alien visitation is confirmed by all kinds of things which are not considered proof by anyone who isn't already a believer. This is like all the confirmation which Christians see for their beliefs.

----

You had posted something earlier to which I had meant to respond.



Dvaienat said:


> The usual response from sceptics of UFOs is that they are government craft being tested.



I think if you read the more skeptical literature, the literature where they actually find the circumstances and pin down what actually happened, you'll find that there isn't a "usual response." Although the contemporary pictures taken at the time of the Roswell happening are in fact of a government weather balloon with test instruments, a lot of the current wave of claimed alien craft sightings are just regular aircraft. 

----

Anyway, it sounds like your belief in alien visitation is an interesting and modern take on religion. Thanks for sharing it!


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 17, 2011)

Makes total sense.


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## USMarine75 (Dec 19, 2011)

I wonder why the only people that see UFOs and are visited by aliens are from Alabama and have a 3rd grade education? 

Who would you visit if you came here?






or







Damn straight I know who I'm visiting... brewing up a batch of Carbon-7 and getting my hee haw on. Might even go up in them there mountains and make someone squeel like a pig while I'm at it...


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## USMarine75 (Dec 19, 2011)

^ and I apologize if that comes across as offensive... Alabama is like my 49th favorite state and Deliverance is one of my top 5 favorite romantic comedies.


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## Cancer (Dec 19, 2011)

Ok, so I have a theory about this:

Before I start, let all agree that the Universe is entirely too big too NOT have other forms of life in 
it. Let's also agree that these "other forms of life" may or may not even be recognizable to us as 
another life form, and that the reverse might also be true (ie.an alien life may not recognize us as a 
life form). Lastly, let's agree that, regardless of lifeform, the same general evolutionary rules apply 
(ie. a life on a planet starts in a lower state, inches it way up the food chain, achieves a level of 
"terrestrial dominance", then acheives extraterrestiral abilities "spaceflight").
With that in place, I believe that we are bing visted by aliens, and that abductions are happening. 

Why? Consider this.

Evolutionarily speaking, recognized visitations can only occur between species who are technologically 
close to one another. If the species are too far apart, the subordinate species would probably not 
recognize it as a "visitation". For instance, a significantly advanced civilation could be spying on us 
through the sun, but how would we know? Also, it's very possible that a very advanced civilation could 
be abducting lifeforms and we would never know (analogous to the way a baboon in a tribe will disappear 
from the memory of the tribe if you tranquilize it, then put a blanket on top of it). That said, it is 
entirely possible that we are being visited by a species advanced enough to either travel here or send 
probes (<--- the most likely scenario), but not advanced enough to avoid detection (this being either by 
cultural choice [re:arrogance], or through technological insufficiency).

That said, I also believe that many of the cases of abduction are false, simply because there are too 
many people who could be abducted and never missed (bums, intrasients, people living in tribes with 
technology, etc).


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## Omarfan (Dec 19, 2011)

Why do you type like that? Doesn't it take more time and effort?


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## Varcolac (Dec 19, 2011)

Cancer said:


> Ok, so I have a theory about this:
> 
> Before I start, let all agree that the Universe is entirely too big too NOT have other forms of life in
> 
> ...



No, the most likely scenario with no proof is that there is nothing happening. 

I believe that there are psychics. There's no proof, but the most likely scenario is that people who can read minds can also erase our memories of having our minds read.

You're missing the simplest explanation: there's nothing going on.


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## Jakke (Dec 19, 2011)

Cancer said:


> Ok, so I have a theory about this:
> 
> Before I start, let all agree that the Universe is entirely too big too NOT have other forms of life in
> 
> ...



Just do Occam's Razor, then come back again with what is most _probable_


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## synrgy (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm quite surprised to see this is still going. 

I just want to put this out there, for what it's worth:

The Voyager spacecrafts left Earth in 1977. Voyager 1 is approximately 17.9 billion KM away from us as of right now. (source)

At first, that sounds really far, but when you consider that after travelling all that distance - almost 18 billion kilometers - the craft has barely left our own solar system, let alone our own galaxy, and it's taken 34 years just to get that far. 

Also take into account that the only reason the craft is going so fast (57,600 kph) is that a brilliant man at NASA figured out that the planets were going to line up in just the right way at just the right time (something that happens very, very rarely, like once every several lifetimes) and thus they forged a path in which each Voyager craft could use the gravity field of each planet it orbited to increase its speed, propelling it ever faster to the next planet on the tour and, ultimately, out of our solar system.

The Voyager craft are traveling that fast thanks to a little help from the Gas Giants, but guess how long it's going to take them to get within 1.7 light years of the stars they are headed toward? About 40,000 years. Forty Thousand. Years. (source)

I think the sheer vastness of space is elusive to most of us.

Unless we're saying that FTL travel is on-the-table - and I'd love to see a reputable physicist say that were possible, but I haven't, yet - then the whole discussion is basically moot. In order to come here to visit, another species would either need FTL travel, or an expected lifespan of 30,000-100,000+ years just to survive the trip. No, I don't believe suspended animation is on-the-table, either, so let's not go there.

I know there's a _lot_ we don't know, but we _do_ know some things, and we already know enough to be sure that any theoretical species out there in the Universe isn't going to meet either of those two requirements. Granted, FTL travel isn't _completely_ off the table in some theoretical circles, but that doesn't make it _probable_. As for the lifespan, I can't think of any evolutionary reason as to why a single living organism would survive for tens to hundreds of thousands of years. Can anyone here? 

At _best_, either prerequisite for another species to even make it to Earth - let alone shove things up our butts and turn our cows inside-out once they get here - are _extremely_ unlikely.

Again, I believe strongly that there's other life out there. It seems a statistical impossibility that there wouldn't be. I just don't believe for a second that they're able to make it to Earth for a visit. Interstellar travel isn't as simple as a trip to the Moon.

Also, we just recently found out that our old television signals are making their way back to us after hitting some kind of reflective gas cloud (no, really, we're getting lost episodes of Dr Who!) so we're not even lucky enough that THAT stuff is reaching anybody else out there.

See, not only is it highly unlikely that any living organism could survive the journey or even make the journey in the first place, it's highly unlikely that any such organism would even know where the fuck to look in the first place. If one stops to ponder just how many stars exist within a single galaxy, then how many galaxies there may be in the Universe, the phrase "needle in a haystack" just doesn't convey the numbers we're dealing with. How would they know to look here, at this single solar system revolving around this single star which is one of _billions_ of stars in our galaxy, which is one of an estimated 500 billion or more galaxies in the _known_ Universe?

They wouldn't. Apart from the 2 Voyager craft as something of an interstellar post-card, we don't exactly have a galactic billboard out there. 

But again, bring me incontrovertible proof to the contrary, and I promise I'll be elated to hear about it.


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## Explorer (Dec 19, 2011)

I got all excited by how this started out...



Cancer said:


> With that in place, I believe that we are bing visted by aliens, and that abductions are happening.
> 
> *Why? Consider this.*



...but then nothing but more "what if?" and calculations of odds without actually having any relevant situations one could use to calculate odds. 

Here's a likely scenario:

There is the same quality of evidence for angels appearing to the faithful and UFO abductions, lots of testimony (much of it contradictory) but nothing physical, so leaving both in the area of arguments in support of an undemonstrated phenomenon. 

I calculate it's not worth one's time to speculate what might be happening if poop turns to gold by ingesting it for a second time through... without proof that it *will* turn to gold. It's a lovely idea (hey, free gold!), but not worth wasting time on, unless one is just looking for entertainment like watching TV, with no actual conviction that Mr. Bellevedere is a real guy. 

Rep to those who brought up the uselessness of speculation about processes without any evidence those processes even exist in the first place. 

----

BTW, there's an interesting topic nearby about a phenomenon which explains the physical sensations and experiences during "alien abductions." It's amazing to know about this particular phenomenon, and to see so many (mainly "abduction believers") who know nothing about it. 

Anyway, without any actual evidence, I suspect no one (whether about their belief in a religion, a worldwide all-powerful conspiracy, or alien visitation) will have much success in using testimony and revelation to convince others who aren't so inclined....


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 19, 2011)

Again and again, we got all sorts of "theories". Its not a theory if your pushing it around, with no credible evidence and are using "lets say" in evey sentence.
Anyone new to this thread, please read it from the beggining, and then based on that restate any form of thesis or theory you may have. Lets not "I think", but state "what we know".


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## Explorer (Dec 20, 2011)

*laugh* Nothing exceeds like excess.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 20, 2011)

Occam`s razor proved to be a really really critical tool in my search to find god, and it ended up disproving it. I hope how I stated it made sense.


----------



## Jakke (Dec 20, 2011)

Iamasingularity said:


> Occam`s razor proved to be a really really critical tool in my search to find god, and it ended up disproving it. I hope how I stated it made sense.




Ahh, love that one!


And yeah, I never thought about religion when I was a kid, but when I did (Occams Razor), I realized that there was probably nothing there.


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## Jakke (Dec 20, 2011)

When we are speaking in hypotheticals (we can't prove aliens doesn't exist, therefore the probability of them sneaking around abducting people is just as large as them not existing, a fallacy in itself)....

In that case, how come the aliens are not hooloovoos? To those unfamiliar to the magic universe of Douglas Adams (heretics), a hooloovoo is a hyper-intelligent shade of blue. But I guess they are not as sexy abductors.. 
Without any kind of evidence pointing to the contrary, that hypothesis is just as valid as the one about little grey men in a saucer. 
So, until someone proves beyond the reason of a doubt that it is impossible, I am going to praise our new hooloovoo overlords, and Adams as their prophet


----------



## Iamasingularity (Dec 20, 2011)

Jakke said:


> Ahh, love that one!
> 
> 
> And yeah, I never thought about religion when I was a kid, but when I did (Occams Razor), I realized that there was probably nothing there.


 
No I never believed in religion either, but I was pretty unhappy to dissprove gods, because well...It would have been nice to have somekind of force to solve the world`s problem, but thinking back about it, I was just naive and immature, just a kid then. I have an essay I wrote about it somewhere.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 20, 2011)

Jakke said:


> When we are speaking in hypotheticals (we can't prove aliens doesn't exist, therefore the probability of them sneaking around abducting people is just as large as they not existing, a fallacy in itself)....
> 
> In that case, how come the aliens are not hooloovoos? To those unfamiliar to the magic universe of Douglas Adams (heretics), a hooloovoo is a hyper-intelligent shade of blue. But I guess they are not as sexy abductors..
> Without any kind of evidence pointing to the contrary, that hypothesis is just as valid as the one about little grey men in a saucer.
> So, until someone proves beyond the reason of a doubt that it is impossible, I am going to praise our new hooloovoo overlords, and Adams as their prophet


 
Hahaha, the Hooloovoo overlords and adam. I myself follow the Golden arch prophet the great Ronald.


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## Cancer (Dec 20, 2011)

Omarfan said:


> Why do you type like that? Doesn't it take more time and effort?



Not sure why that heppened. it wasn't like that in Notepad.


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## USMarine75 (Dec 20, 2011)

^ hmmm, I wonder who has the technology to switch the spacing in the nanosecond it took for you to post it from notepad to the forum??? hmmm...


----------



## Jakke (Dec 20, 2011)

USMarine75 said:


> ^ hmmm, I wonder who has the technology to switch the spacing in the nanosecond it took for you to post it from notepad to the forum??? hmmm...



Hmmmm...... Aliens?


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## USMarine75 (Dec 21, 2011)

I think this is relevant somehow...


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 22, 2011)

widereader said:


> I believe in aliens created by governments to lure people and distract them from thinking of current social issues that are important.



Well guess who fell for that one....


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## Cancer (Dec 23, 2011)

Here's my final question on the subject, and I really want to know.

Let's assume that abductions are fake, and the ufo's and alien civilizations DON'T exist, and let's also assume that this planet contains the only sapient life in the Universe. What then, does that make us?


----------



## Explorer (Dec 24, 2011)

Cancer said:


> Here's my final question on the subject, and I really want to know.
> 
> Let's assume that abductions are fake, and the ufo's and alien civilizations DON'T exist, and let's also assume that this planet contains the only sapient life in the Universe. What then, does that make us?



Why should we assume that a real abduction can't happen? I only pointed out that there hasn't been objective evidence that one actually has occurred. 

Why should I assume that a real extraterrestrial craft can't visit? I only pointed out that there hasn't been objective evidence that one has done so.

Why should I assume alien civilizations don't exist? I think it's very likely, although since there hasn't been any objective evidence of visitations or abductions, I have no reason to think such civilizations have come here.

So, since I don't think it's likely we're the only sapient life, why should I speculate on what an occurrence of low probability might mean? 

----

I suspect that you don't understand what is actually being objected to, at least when people are pointing out the flaws in the "OMFG Aliens are visiting us all the time!" assertions. Most of us are open to evidence, but actually need evidence before going off the deep end.


----------



## Iamasingularity (Dec 24, 2011)

Cancer said:


> Here's my final question on the subject, and I really want to know.
> 
> Let's assume that abductions are fake, and the ufo's and alien civilizations DON'T exist, and let's also assume that this planet contains the only sapient life in the Universe. What then, does that make us?


 
So does anybody have anything else other than some assertions?


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 24, 2011)

Also anyone have any Alien movie reccomendations? I`m not really into the the heavy CG kind of movies, like transformers. Something with a awesome plot line/story would be great.


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## Explorer (Dec 24, 2011)

All right, avoiding CGI, here's some movies which are actually worth spending some time with. Sure, _Repo Man_ might not compare with _2001_, but it's not as bad as _Robot Monster_ (which didn't make my list). 

And yes, I know that some (like _The Faculty_) have some CGI, but a bit in no way compares to having Jar Jar the Space Jamaican turning a whole film into a minstrel show.
_
Starman_ with Jeff Bridges.
The original _The Day the Earth Stood Still_ (and I actually liked the remake!).
_Explorers_ (the Spielberg film).
_2001: A Space Odyssey_.
_Alien Nation_.
_Contact_.
_Close Encounters of the Third Kind_ (worth watching!).
_The Blob_ (both versions).
_The Thing_ (John Carpenter).
_The Andromeda Strain_.
_Invasion of the Body Snatchers_ (both versions, plus _The Invasion_ with Nicole Kidman).
_The Faculty_.
_The Hidden_ (I think they missed a great opportunity by


Spoiler



not having the nice alien look just as creepy as the bad alien


).
_Impostor_ (with Gary Sinise).
_Little Shop of Horrors_.
_Earth Girls Are Easy_.
_The Rocky Horror Picture Show_.
_UHF_ (with Crazy Al).
_Repo Man_.
_The Big Empty_.
_Liquid Sky_.
_The Man Who Fell to Earth_.
_KPAX_.
_Life of Brian_.
All the _Superman_ movies (he's an alien, right?).
_The Arrival_.
_They Live_ (source of the legendary and painful Cripple Fight!).
_The War of the Worlds_ (George Pal).

There's others for which I just couldn't muster enough affection to put them on the list (_Cocoon_, for example). It's a matter of taste, so don't be offended if I didn't think something was worth listing.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 24, 2011)

I`ve seen about 10 of the listed ones, the rest are pretty new. I will watch all the rest. Thanks for the list.
Other`s recommendations are welcome as well.


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## The Omega Cluster (Dec 24, 2011)

What if an alien abducted a keyboardist?

THIS!


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 24, 2011)

The Omega Cluster said:


> What if an alien abducted a keyboardist?
> 
> THIS!


 
Nice NES music concept. Did you use the keys to play this whole track? 
You should join a band or something.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Dec 24, 2011)

Explorer said:


> _2001: A Space Odyssey_.



Best. Movie. Ever.


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## Iamasingularity (Dec 24, 2011)

Spaceman_Spiff said:


> Best. Movie. Ever.



The scientific accuracy in the movie is spellbinding.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Dec 24, 2011)

Iamasingularity said:


> The scientific accuracy in the movie is spellbinding.



Apparently Kubrick made sure that all the equipment in the movie would actually work in space. Because he was as insane as he was brilliant.


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## Explorer (Dec 24, 2011)

For me personally, the movie on that list which really captures the excitement and terseness of a real mission is Contact. The control room scene in that always makes me choke up. "Up is go! Up is go!" 

Then again, I'm also the kind of guy who loved our NASA credit union credit cards, because they featured the astounding image of the Space Shuttle punching its way out of the atmosphere, rising on a pillar of fire. 

----

My current workplace is in no way related to space, and some of my friends there mock me because I continually monitor pricing on civilian jet packs. As soon as one proves viable for less than $75k, I'm outta here... unless I can buy a ticket on even a suborbital flight which gives me the opportunity to look out the window and watch the curved horizon of this beautiful planet of ours falling away in all directions? (Yup, that makes me tear up, and who wouldn't at the thought of the fulfillment of a childhood dream?)


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## USMarine75 (Dec 29, 2011)




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## Iamasingularity (Jan 4, 2012)

A pressure proof tank, and a few hundred thousand helium balloons=
Poor man`s space rocket. I`d totally do it.


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## ByDesign (Jan 4, 2012)

Didn't read entire thread so I don't know if this was touched upon, but IF aliens were able to observe us from their own space, given the time it takes for light to travel, chances are what they would see today would be hundreds of years old.

I just really don't think they would bother.


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## Domkid118 (Jan 5, 2012)

Are they aliens or just other people on another planet,


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## Jakke (Jan 5, 2012)

Iamasingularity said:


> Hahaha, the Hooloovoo overlords and adam. I myself follow the Golden arch prophet the great Ronald.



I sir, declare you holy war. I find your teachings heretical and your mere existance corrupts the children of our flock beyond redemption.


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## Iamasingularity (Jan 6, 2012)




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