# Veil of Maya - False Idol



## Dcm81 (Oct 20, 2017)

So the new VoM album, False Idol is out today and seeing as I liked VoMs earlier albums and absolutely loved Matriarch, I jumped on this straight away, expecting something similar.

Granted, it is _similar_ and I've only given it a once through so far, I'm feeling rather underwhelmed.
I realise the rest of you won't have had more time with the new album but I feel it's missing a lot of the "Techy", "brvtal" riffs from Matriarch.......too many "soft" parts and a distinct similarity in sound to a lot of the "atmospheric" type stuff a la Tesseract or Textures.

Is it just me???


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## lewis (Oct 20, 2017)

Dcm81 said:


> So the new VoM album, False Idol is out today and seeing as I liked VoMs earlier albums and absolutely loved Matriarch, I jumped on this straight away, expecting something similar.
> 
> Granted, it is _similar_ and I've only given it a once through so far, I'm feeling rather underwhelmed.
> I realise the rest of you won't have had more time with the new album but I feel it's missing a lot of the "Techy", "brvtal" riffs from Matriarch.......*too many "soft" parts* and a distinct similarity in sound to a lot of the "atmospheric" type stuff a la Tesseract or Textures.
> ...



eurgh. Not another band. Jeez how many other tech metal bands are going to adopt this recent trend of having a mainsteam/melodic backbone?.
new Northlane and especially The Contortionist is a prime example. The latter completely bores me.
Lets make heavy and groovy cool again ffs.


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## Dcm81 (Oct 20, 2017)

Matriarch was actually a huge break from their earlier work with the new singer - which I actually really like. There's just so much more diversity in Magyar's vocals than the monotonous shouting of the old singer. I feel on that album, they also had a really good mix between soft, hard, melodious, groovy - it was just a great sound for me. This one just feels so..........watered down..?


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## lewis (Oct 20, 2017)

Dcm81 said:


> Matriarch was actually a huge break from their earlier work with the new singer - which I actually really like. There's just so much more diversity in Magyar's vocals than the monotonous shouting of the old singer. I feel on that album, they also had a really good mix between soft, hard, melodious, groovy - it was just a great sound for me. This one just feels so..........watered down..?


yeah exactly. Its about balance. I love melodic/contrasting sections scattered amongst heavy as fook groove as much as the next person, it just seems atm their is a trend for the balance to be shifted too far in the mainstream direction's favour.

Every band basically wants to become Tesseract, rather than just stay true to their own sound.
I agree too, he is a way better vocalist.


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## Razerjack (Oct 20, 2017)

lewis said:


> yeah exactly. Its about balance. I love melodic/contrasting sections scattered amongst heavy as fook groove as much as the next person, it just seems atm their is a trend for the balance to be shifted too far in the mainstream direction's favour.
> 
> Every band basically wants to become Tesseract, rather than just stay true to their own sound.
> I agree too, he is a way better vocalist.


Its all subjective I guess. For me, False Idol is the perfect balance while albums before Matriarch sounds too 'busy'. Tesseract on the other hand lacks punch and the 'boink' tone gives me a headache at night.


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## bpprox22 (Oct 20, 2017)

I gave it a listen through one time so far. I agree. While there are some tasty riffs in there, the album as a whole just didn't vibe with me 100%. @Razorjack is right -- it's completely subjective. My opinion comes from a place where I think Eclipse is their best album. The Common Man's Collapse is a close second.


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## squids (Oct 20, 2017)

I disagree completely. to me this album has more technical parts than matriarch. sure, there are songs that are more "periphery-esque" like Echo Chamber, but other songs feel like a good mesh between Marc's signature playing style and their newer sound, like Whistleblower. Lukas's vocals have also improved quite a bit from matriarch, like on Pool Spray, his screams sound like a completely different singer. I don't think they'll ever go back to what they were before but who cares, theres plenty of tech death out there, and this album is definitely my favorite over matriarch (and P3 for that matter lol)


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## Kaura (Oct 20, 2017)

New album is focking awesome. Might be even better than Matriarch which is at least in my top 3 albums of all time. Favorite tracks atm; Pool Spray and Livestream. Funnily the two tracks that got released beforehand are probably the weakest imo (still good though)

Edit: Also, love the use of phaser on Whistleblower. That song probably has my favorite riffs off the album.


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## squids (Oct 20, 2017)

Kaura said:


> New album is focking awesome. Might be even better than Matriarch which is at least in my top 3 albums of all time. Favorite tracks atm; Pool Spray and Livestream. Funnily the two tracks that got released beforehand are probably the weakest imo (still good though)
> 
> Edit: Also, love the use of phaser on Whistleblower. That song probably has my favorite riffs off the album.


I agree although i like Doublespeak a lot (can't help that catchy chorus)
I really like Fracture, Follow Me, Manichee (surprisingly), and Whistleblower. the music video for Whistleblower fits the song well too haha


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## gunch (Oct 20, 2017)

Marc is djoinking on a 7 instead of riffing on a 6 but I don't know how to feel about it


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## Demartan (Oct 20, 2017)

So far this is tied with The Great Collapse for the best release this year for me. The grooves!


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## Kaura (Oct 20, 2017)

silverabyss said:


> Marc is djoinking on a 7 instead of riffing on a 6 but I don't know how to feel about it



Apart from the djonting I think there's still plenty of those Marc's signature fast runs and dissonant "beep boops".


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## Dcm81 (Oct 20, 2017)

silverabyss said:


> Marc is djoinking on a 7 instead of riffing on a 6 but I don't know how to feel about it



I think this might play a large role, in that kind of similarity to some of the djenty bands I think I'm hearing.
So far I'm just missing certein things that I really enjoyed in Matriarch. Like the last minute of Mikasa, for instance, when Lukas goes from a deep growl to a really high ptched scream (nearly squeel)......beautiful brutality that was for me! One of those in your face moments. Apart from the rest of the song being great too and the chorus & melody are catchy AF.

I'm sure it'll grow on me but first impression: IMO lacking some of that great new sound that made Matriarch so fresh, instead sounding a tad too familiar to well known, popular djenty bands.


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## MiPwnYew (Oct 20, 2017)

Didn't think I would be in the minority on this one, but I've been listening since CMC and I absolutely love the new album. The vocals are like a Periphery 1 - P2 difference to me, and love all the songs lol


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## lewis (Oct 21, 2017)

silverabyss said:


> Marc is djoinking on a 7 instead of riffing on a 6 but I don't know how to feel about it


this is a great point.

When I "djent" on my 6 im djent shredding like a mofo. The second you pick up a 7 or an 8 the riffs just naturally change and feel very different. Perhaps this is some of the change we are noticing.

Its why at least these days, im writing and playing all my bands songs (using a 7 string tuning) on a 6 string instead.


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## sawtoothscream (Oct 22, 2017)

Listened to it several times at work today, sounds nothing like tesseract IMO. Was so happy as your review made me nervous lol. Cant stand Polaris, listened to it 3 times through and wish i could get a refund. 

Overall I am really liking this album, esp fractures.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 23, 2017)

I thought this album was a lot stronger than Matriarch was.
Although I'm probably pretty firmly in the minority when I say [iD] was my favorite album. Matriarch seemed like a weak album to me, there were only a couple songs I'd wind up wanting to listen to and it wasn't enough to just put the album on, it was always just a song or two. This one is different. 

Fracture and Follow Me are absolutely insane. Sam straight up slays it on on Follow Me.


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## gunch (Oct 23, 2017)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> I thought this album was a lot stronger than Matriarch was.
> Although I'm probably pretty firmly in the minority when I say [iD] was my favorite album. Matriarch seemed like a weak album to me, there were only a couple songs I'd wind up wanting to listen to and it wasn't enough to just put the album on, it was always just a song or two. This one is different.
> 
> Fracture and Follow Me are absolutely insane. Sam straight up slays it on on Follow Me.



Dude iD is good


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## sakeido (Oct 23, 2017)

[id] was their last good album

this new one is  but still better than Eclipse, I guess.. barely


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## Jake (Oct 23, 2017)

I'm loving the new album but I'm firmly planted in the "Matriarch was great" camp. 

Never could get into the VoM stuff prior to that album with the old vocals but love the stuff now even if it isn't _as _technical as the older stuff.


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## DoomJazz (Oct 23, 2017)

I started listening with Eclipse, liked it, REALLY liked Matriarch, and I'm pretty certain that this album is going to be one of my favorites. I'm still learning some of the songs and deciding whether or not I like them, but the songs that I do immediately like have been on replay since it came out. Magyar is a monster.


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## gujukal (Oct 24, 2017)

Which they would do something more similar to Eclipse but with some parts of Matriarch. But i kinda feel that the guitar work is pretty underwhelming for being something from Okubo, riffs are so simple and uninspiring compared to Eclipse.


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## penguin_316 (Oct 24, 2017)

The new album is heading in a good new direction, more melody is never a bad thing. It's called songwriting. It's not just riffs tossed together...or songs that are 5 minute breakdowns.


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## penguin_316 (Oct 24, 2017)

And ps Eclipse is their worst album by far, talk about generic and uninspiring tones/songs/etc. Their best work is arguably their newest two albums, But all of the albums except Eclipse have been great.


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## no_dice (Oct 24, 2017)

penguin_316 said:


> more melody is never a bad thing. It's called songwriting.



Sorry, but I don't agree with this generalization at all. Being more melodic doesn't inherently mean the songwriting is better. Applying that logic would mean that technically, Asking Alexandria are better songwriters than Meshuggah, simply because their style is more melodic.

It's cool if you like their new stuff more than the older stuff, but to say that it's objectively better simply on the merit of the added poppiness is just silly.


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## penguin_316 (Oct 24, 2017)

Having been a member of the meshuggah forum for like 14 years or so and this one for almost as long, I can see your point. You missed mine though.

I feel as if VoM are growing in their ability to create actual songs with this new singer, not regressing and just tossing screams on top of everything. That is coming from a diehard meshuggah fan. 

Maybe I worded it wrong, I feel they are cultivating a more complex sound. It's just my opinion though...


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## bpprox22 (Oct 24, 2017)

After another listen, I actually came to enjoy it a lot more than the first time around. I'm on board with it.


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## DoomJazz (Oct 24, 2017)

Agreed. I have a feeling that whatever comes after this will be super polished.


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## gujukal (Oct 24, 2017)

penguin_316 said:


> And ps Eclipse is their worst album by far, talk about generic and uninspiring tones/songs/etc. Their best work is arguably their newest two albums, But all of the albums except Eclipse have been great.


That's your opinion, Id is by far worse than Eclipse. Common Man's Collapse, Eclipse and Matriarch are all better than False Idol imo.


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## no_dice (Oct 24, 2017)

penguin_316 said:


> Maybe I worded it wrong, I feel they are cultivating a more complex sound. It's just my opinion though...



And I totally respect that. They don't owe it to me or anyone else to maintain their old sound. It bums me out a little that I don't enjoy the new stuff, but oh well, that's my loss. Life goes on.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Oct 24, 2017)

gujukal said:


> Id is by far worse than Eclipse.


Wrong.


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## squids (Oct 24, 2017)

gujukal said:


> That's your opinion, Id is by far worse than Eclipse. Common Man's Collapse, Eclipse and Matriarch are all better than False Idol imo.


VOM- "False Statement"
Id is easily my favorite veil album, and i'm sure others would agree with me. Misha from periphery co-wrote a decent amount of the songs on eclipse and it shows (their djentiest album)


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## Frostbite (Oct 24, 2017)

I loved Eclipse, loved Matriarch and I love False Idols so far. I also love iD as well and the playing on that album has had an influence on my playing as a whole but that album had a massive issue for me with some of the songs not sounding concise for lack of a better term. Some of the songs were just very wall of noise and felt very random. Every album since has really improved on the song writing structure and made more concise, enjoyable songs. Eclipse, while boring in some instances guitar wise and in some other aspects, had much better structure. 

Side note, if you don't think Follow Me is one of the best songs that Veil has put out ever, I'll scoff in your general direction very firmly


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## gunch (Oct 24, 2017)

My first listen track by track hot takes:

Lull: Kind of strange for a VoM album opener, no chugdowns to be found, fairly cool atmosphere though.
Fracture: Did not like the clanky single note tone at all, the choruses were pretty cool though.
Doublespeak: I actually think the freakout riff @1:13 was fairly interesting, then how it ties into the breakdown. Solid song. 
Overthrow: Fairly punishing then -> "heroically" melodic, at first listen it sounded like it almost had a AAL S/T vibe. The single note breakdown sounds about like 10 years too old though, shit. Could have left that part out and still be a banger from the first half. 
Whistleblower: Video: What the shit. Song: Fairly... okay. Starting to get bored with the Periph/AAL single note stuff. 
Echo Chamber: Panic chords yay EER EER EER Clean outro NICE 
Pool Spray: Car Bomb does melting better and the chorus is starting to sound REALLY Spencer/Periphery 
Graymail: I'm starting to realize that I'm not this band's target demographic anymore. DJONK DJONK DJONK 
Manichee: Actually really really good for a melodic song and Magyar sounds like himself and not Spencer Sotelo 
Citadel: Another fairly interesting one that goes on light on the deep fried djoinks 
Follow Me: Holy Blasts, Batman! (In a good way) HE CAN STILL TREMOLO PICK WORTH A SHIT YAY 
Tyrant: THROWBACK Mosquito buzzing in the intro. The Mario synth was cool too. What was that outro though  
Livestream: Much like the rest I was half cringing and half liking it 

I give it 3.5 Larry Davids out of 5, I liked Matriarch better.


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## anomynous (Oct 25, 2017)

Eclipse is trash, only decent song is Punisher and we all know why


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## Velokki (Oct 25, 2017)

anomynous said:


> Eclipse is trash, only decent song is Punisher and we all know why


Eclipse is a vastly solid album. I remember listening to it repeatedly in 2012, and it still works really well. I really think that the Misha + Marc combo brought the best combination to the table at the time. Can't compare to Matriarch, though.


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## penguin_316 (Oct 25, 2017)

+1 I know misha helped with that album and all but it's the songs themselves that seem to go nowhere and have very few memorable moments. Seemed lifeless to me. (This is my opinion, as pointed out earlier by the opinion police)


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## Frostbite (Oct 25, 2017)

penguin_316 said:


> +1 I know misha helped with that album and all but it's the songs themselves that seem to go nowhere and have very few memorable moments. Seemed lifeless to me. (This is my opinion, as pointed out earlier by the opinion police)


Dude WTF how dare you share your opinion. There are kids around.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 26, 2017)

penguin_316 said:


> +1 I know misha helped with that album and all but it's the songs themselves that seem to go nowhere and have very few memorable moments. Seemed lifeless to me. (This is my opinion, as pointed out earlier by the opinion police)



Yeah not to take away from ya boi Marsha Monsoon, the mix on Eclipse was pretty great imo and one of my favorites. 
But the actual content of the album and the lack of 'wow' moments make it a pretty forgettable release for me. Still good though, not a bad album; just not as good as their other stuff.


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## fps (Oct 26, 2017)

Hilarious all these one listen reviews.

Presumably this is one of your favourite bands for a lot of you. They've just poured blood sweat and tears into a new release. At least spin the thing 20 times before passing judgment.


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## MFB (Oct 26, 2017)

fps said:


> At least spin the thing 20 times before passing judgment.



If you don't enjoy a show with one episode, do you watch 20 more (which is 4/5 of a standard 24-episode season) and then determine "No, I really don't enjoy this"? I'd say give it three and you can reasonably determine if it's your thing.


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## sakeido (Oct 26, 2017)

fps said:


> Hilarious all these one listen reviews.
> 
> Presumably this is one of your favourite bands for a lot of you. They've just poured blood sweat and tears into a new release. At least spin the thing 20 times before passing judgment.



if I have to listen to it 20 times before I start to like it, is it actually a good album or have I given myself stockholm syndrome? 

I've spun it 6 or 7 times and I've had enough. you're right, they are one of my favorite bands - I'll go back and listen to their old stuff. and for the record I actually really liked Matriarch and was stoked for the new one


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## bulb (Oct 26, 2017)

sakeido said:


> if I have to listen to it 20 times before I start to like it, is it actually a good album or have I given myself stockholm syndrome?



It's a good album if you feel that it's a good album, doesn't matter how many spins it took. Otherwise some of my favorite albums of all time would fall under your "stockholm syndrome" category, and that's just silly.


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## crg123 (Oct 27, 2017)

This is awesome. I didn't really care for Matriarch but I appreciated they wanted to go in a different direction than prior albums.

This album on the other hand is probably one of my favorites of the year!

After the first spin "Follow me" seems to be my personal favorite.


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## LeoLmX (Oct 27, 2017)

It's amazing how the opinions vary so much on their albums. As for myself, I really enjoyed Matriarch, it was the perfect mix of poppy choruses and dJOnt dJonT da-jent. False Idol (after the third listen) looked a little raw to me, but it's a solid good album.


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## schwiz (Oct 27, 2017)

This album rips. Marc makes his guitar go "weeee woooo" on Fracture.


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## Dcm81 (Oct 27, 2017)

fps said:


> Hilarious all these one listen reviews.
> 
> Presumably this is one of your favourite bands for a lot of you. They've just poured blood sweat and tears into a new release. At least spin the thing 20 times before passing judgment.



Yes, I started this thread right after my first listen through but it was simply my first impression. You can't tell me you feel nothing and have no opinion of an album until you've heard it a certain number of times?!
By now, it's spun far more than 20 times  I like it - none the less, I still prefer Matriarch.


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## Stijnson (Oct 27, 2017)

I love Matriarch and think that Magyar was an awesome addition, I'm a sucker for catchy choruses! Enjoying False Idol now too, took a few listens though. Slightly surprised by the amount of djont though. But the album is almost a mixture between the older and newer sound. That being said, they are slightly less riffy and more poppy since Magyar joined and considering I love that Okubo style riffing, the pre-Magyar albums are better when it comes to sheer raw riffery in a style only they seem to do.


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## Lorcan Ward (Oct 27, 2017)

LeoLmX said:


> It's amazing how the opinions vary so much on their albums. As for myself, I really enjoyed Matriarch, it was the perfect mix of poppy choruses and dJOnt dJonT da-jent. False Idol (after the third listen) looked a little raw to me, but it's a solid good album.



I don't think I've ever seen such divided opinions on this forum for a band. I must go back and listen to the older albums now that I've grown to like this band after Matriarch.


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## crg123 (Oct 27, 2017)

^ you definitely should. Common Mans Collapse and All Things Set Aside are great technical deathcore albums, first of that genre that I actually liked. [id] is my personal favorite and eclipse is really djenty but super solid too.

First song I heard from these guys and I'm sure alot of people share this was "It's Not Safe to Swim Today". They did not have any poppy melodies or clean vocals before Matriach so don't expect any of that.


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## IGC (Oct 28, 2017)

Gave it a skim, looking forward to more


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## squids (Oct 30, 2017)

Ok so i’ve listened to this album badically every time i get in the car, and then yesterday i went back and listened to Matriarch, and WOW. I forgot how much i loved that album, it’s a definite very close second behind [id] for my favorite veil album. False Idol is great too, but it doesn’t have the emotion and inner struggle that i felt in Matriarch. False idol feels more like they were kinda compensating for all of that extra emotion on matriarch and writing all these heavy songs to be just heavy as fuck, and manichee still kinda has it but in a different way. Idk what it is but i spent that whole summer after matriarch was released listening to that, and that was an important part of my life so i think it just has a special feeling when i jam that. 
Sorry for the rant, just my thoughts. Sad about the divided opinions on this album, but im not sure why the people who loved matriarch hate this one, its still a kick ass album.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 31, 2017)

squids said:


> and that was an important part of my life so i think it just has a special feeling when i jam that.



Probably. I get that with a lot of albums. It's the association that really pushes it to the 'untouchable-tier'. I listen to a lot of records I probably wouldn't even like today if I was just hearing them for the first time because of that, I think.

Regarding divided opinions, I'm not sad as much as I am impressed that from what I can tell, all of these people clashing over False Idol vs Matriarch actually seem to _like_ both albums. Usually you see 'X sucks Y is way better,' and that doesn't seem to be the case at all.


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## LeoLmX (Oct 31, 2017)

squids said:


> Sad about the divided opinions on this album, but im not sure why the people who loved matriarch hate this one, its still a kick ass album.



Yeah that doesn't make sense for me too. Both albums feel similar and marks a new Veil of Maya for me


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## Wamwal (Oct 31, 2017)

Personally I'm loving the new album. Has a little bit of everything imho


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## squids (Oct 31, 2017)

Ordacleaphobia said:


> Regarding divided opinions, I'm not sad as much as I am impressed that from what I can tell, all of these people clashing over False Idol vs Matriarch actually seem to _like_ both albums. Usually you see 'X sucks Y is way better,' and that doesn't seem to be the case at all.


That's a good point actually, i guess i was more looking at the False Idol vs Eclipse/Common mans collapse.


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## bukkakeONyoMAMA (Nov 12, 2017)

This album kicks ass. It took a few listens but it has fully grown on me. Its got the djent, the groove, good cleans, mean growls. Although unexpected, i like the direction they went.


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## saminator (Nov 13, 2017)

I've been enjoying False Idol a lot. Matriarch was a very good album, but I think I'm enjoying False Idol a little bit more overall.


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## sezna (Nov 16, 2017)

After reading this thread, it appears that the minority (which includes myself) is those who got into VoM during Common Man’s Collapse era. I fell in love with them then. 

I do not think their old vocalist was just “yelling” - I think he was pretty talented. I was ok with Matriarch, being melodic but still had some roots of the original VoM. This new stuff is just further and further from what I originally liked, though. If this is what Marc likes to write now, so be it, but I won’t say I don’t miss the old riffs (swim, torn apart, mowgli, glass slide...)


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## LeoLmX (Nov 16, 2017)

What gear did Marc use on False Idol? A baritone 7 (27"?) string with a whammy bar? F# standard? What pickups did he use? Fishman? Which one? What amp did he use? Axe-fx?


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## squids (Nov 16, 2017)

LeoLmX said:


> What gear did Marc use on False Idol? A baritone 7 (27"?) string with a whammy bar? F# standard? What pickups did he use? Fishman? Which one? What amp did he use? Axe-fx?


go see them on tour and ask marc


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## bukkakeONyoMAMA (Nov 17, 2017)

Can someone explain that guitar technique that marc uses on fracture? Ive never had a whammy bar but am curious how he does that glitching type of sound.


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## Dcm81 (Nov 17, 2017)

sezna said:


> After reading this thread, it appears that the minority (which includes myself) is those who got into VoM during Common Man’s Collapse era. I fell in love with them then.
> 
> I do not think their old vocalist was just “yelling” - I think he was pretty talented. I was ok with Matriarch, being melodic but still had some roots of the original VoM. This new stuff is just further and further from what I originally liked, though. If this is what Marc likes to write now, so be it, but I won’t say I don’t miss the old riffs (swim, torn apart, mowgli, glass slide...)



CMC was also my first VoM album so I did actually fall in love with their original style, except (for me at least) the vocals - they were just too 1 dimensional for me and always just got a "meh" reaction out of me. Now with the new singer the vocal range has just gotten so much better......more dynamic - and I'm only reffering to the scream/shout/non-clean parts.
It's all subjective, of course, but it's a similar comparison in my eyes like the difference between Trevor from Unearth and Randy from Lamb of God.



bukkakeONyoMAMA said:


> Can someone explain that guitar technique that marc uses on fracture? Ive never had a whammy bar but am curious how he does that glitching type of sound.



Sounds to me like it's pretty much just a combination of natural and artificial harmonics and some flutter/whammy bar play-around...


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## squids (Nov 17, 2017)

bukkakeONyoMAMA said:


> Can someone explain that guitar technique that marc uses on fracture? Ive never had a whammy bar but am curious how he does that glitching type of sound.


if your trem is set up well, you can give the bar a good smack to get that vibrating note thing. the first solo in Melting City by BTBAM has a good slower example of this.


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