# BlackMachine resuming custom orders?



## Syriel (Aug 22, 2012)

Looks like Doug is gonna start building again. Seems he's accepting 10 spots for 2013 builds, as stated on his website.

Not that I can afford one anytime soon, but just wanted to share what I found, seeing as everyone in this area loves BlackMachine.

blackmachine - Ordering

See for yourself.


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## djpharoah (Aug 22, 2012)

Wow.. that's jacked up. Didn't he say he was closing up the customs thus driving the last few that have been up for sale up to insanely high prices?


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## Valennic (Aug 22, 2012)

Welp.

I need money. A lot of money.


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## MikeH (Aug 22, 2012)

You only need one kidney to live, right?


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## MetalBuddah (Aug 22, 2012)

And all ten will likely be ordered by sso members 

Glad he is accepting custom orders again. Can't wait for the NGDs


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## TheFashel12 (Aug 22, 2012)

Those 10 places will be taken up in no time


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## technomancer (Aug 22, 2012)

djpharoah said:


> Wow.. that's jacked up. Didn't he say he was closing up the customs thus driving the last few that have been up for sale up to insanely high prices?



I said it in the other thread but I'll say it again:

Doug: master of marketing


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## djpharoah (Aug 22, 2012)

^Totally agree


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## Valennic (Aug 22, 2012)

Stop sending him emails, mine won't go through because the server is too facking busy


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## SamSam (Aug 22, 2012)

Kinda want. But I'll get rejected anyway so who cares.


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## Hollowway (Aug 22, 2012)

technomancer said:


> Doug: master of marketing



Yup. He should trade stocks, too. Kind of like Jim Cramer's pump and dump.

Also, as one of the resident gear sponges, I will say that I have little desire to have a Blackmachine. Most of the people who want one have never touched one, and to me that spells hype, which drives up the price, which scares me away.


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## UnderTheSign (Aug 22, 2012)

djpharoah said:


> Wow.. that's jacked up. Didn't he say he was closing up the customs thus driving the last few that have been up for sale up to insanely high prices?



Taken from the Web Archives, his 2011 statement:


> For 2011 regrettably it will not be possible to order a guitar in the usual build to order manner. With the private stock of timber I have collected over the last 15 years I intend to build some specials. I have been looking forward to this for some considerable time. These will be built and will be available in a mix of the more standard guitars.
> It is quite likely that these will be the last instruments built entirely by hand by myself. In order to respect those who have put their names down on the waiting list I will endeavour to offer first refusal when instruments become available.


He didn't _say _he was closing up, just _suggested it was very likely_ I guess. I agree with Technomancer though, definitely a smart marketing trick.


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## pylyo (Aug 22, 2012)




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## TheBigGroove (Aug 22, 2012)

emailed...time to stop trying to get myself fired 

well that and try to up my cool factor drastically in the next few hours before he reads my email.....


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## Valennic (Aug 22, 2012)

SamSam said:


> Kinda want. But I'll get rejected anyway so who cares.



See that bugs me. If the cash is there, the guitar should be too.

In my opinion anyway . If he rejects me, that's cool, it's just a few grand I can spend elsewhere. But all the same, that exclusivity will become a turn off one of these days.


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## petereanima (Aug 22, 2012)

Valennic said:


> See that bugs me. If the cash is there, the guitar should be too.
> 
> In my opinion anyway . If he rejects me, that's cool, it's just a few grand I can spend elsewhere. But all the same, that exclusivity will become a turn off one of these days.



I would like to own a B7, I have the money, but for sure won't go for a "job interview" if I want to buy a guitar.

He can do what he wants of course, sure, there will be enough people not getting turned off by this.


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## mwcarl (Aug 22, 2012)

I don't understand the whole "I've got the money, so he should sell it to me" thing. Listen, Doug is an artist, and when you make a work of art you want to ensure it goes to the place where you feel as if it will be appreciated in the way you'd like it to be. If he was making hundreds of the damn things then maybe you'd have an argument. The people who will be turned off buying because of the exclusiveness of owning one are exactly the people he probably wouldn't want to sell to anyway.

I don't particularly like BlackMachines very much because of their aesthetic, and think that they are overpriced. However, I'm obviously not the target market and they can't just be looked at as any mass produced consumer good where the people making them don't care about who buys them.


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## ROAR (Aug 22, 2012)

Wait.... you have to go through a "job interview" to get a Blackmachine?


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## DavidLopezJr (Aug 22, 2012)

djpharoah said:


> Wow.. that's jacked up. Didn't he say he was closing up the customs thus driving the last few that have been up for sale up to insanely high prices?


He should work at apple 



ROAR said:


> Wait.... you have to go through a "job interview" to get a Blackmachine?


Google dumble amps


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## Kro497 (Aug 22, 2012)

Well...there goes my savings. I love the Blackmachine aesthetic and think they are awesome guitars. I agree that a lot of custom builders view their work as art and as such, they probably want to make sure their art goes into the right hands. I don't necessarily think Doug is doing this for money but more for the joy of handcrafting instruments. But then again, I just graduated college with a Folklore degree and know absolutely nothing....so judge not lol.


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## Valennic (Aug 22, 2012)

mwcarl said:


> I don't understand the whole "I've got the money, so he should sell it to me" thing. Listen, Doug is an artist, and when you make a work of art you want to ensure it goes to the place where you feel as if it will be appreciated in the way you'd like it to be. If he was making hundreds of the damn things then maybe you'd have an argument. The people who will be turned off buying because of the exclusiveness of owning one are exactly the people he probably wouldn't want to sell to anyway.
> 
> I don't particularly like BlackMachines very much because of their aesthetic, and think that they are overpriced. However, I'm obviously not the target market and they can't just be looked at as any mass produced consumer good where the people making them don't care about who buys them.



You misunderstand me.

I want one. Bad. The exclusivity is one of the reasons I want one. I will happily admit that I am one of the sheep that is drawn to the hype that is Blackmachine, and I'd really love to be the owner of one. I would cherish the fucking thing like a CHILD if I owned one. I'm just saying that eventually, he's going to piss off too many people, and lose that marketing magic that he's tried so hard to build. 

It only takes a minor slip to fall off of a mile high pedestal


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## Floppystrings (Aug 22, 2012)

Didn't one sell for like $9k recently?

Ouch.


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## SamSam (Aug 22, 2012)

He obviously does it for profit as well as the art. He's clearly not an idiot and he's earning his coin. At least if I email Dylan I know I'll have a guitar lined up. But I still want a Blackmachine, but the idea of getting my hopes up for nothing irks me.

Also, wasn't there a massive fucking queue of people already on his waiting list? What happened to these people? He hasn't exactly been crapping out guitars.


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## Rook (Aug 22, 2012)

If I can get a B6 for sub £2k I'd take a punt on that. £2k for a guitar like that in this country is nothing, I'm assuming however a B6 won't be circa £1700 like they were though, they'll probably upwards of £2.5k, in which case definitely not fussed.

As I've said a couple of times, I've tried a few and wasn't blown away by them, but I do like the look of the B6 - quite a lot actually.


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## Winspear (Aug 22, 2012)

^ I thought they were £4000+ :O


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## Rook (Aug 22, 2012)

They were £1100 in 2007, I probably still have the email from Doug saying so 

EDIT: That's annoying I have my response but not his email


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## Adeamus (Aug 22, 2012)

ROAR said:


> Wait.... you have to go through a "job interview" to get a Blackmachine?



I think its awesome that Doug has enough pride in his product that he doesn't just want rich kids playing his guitars. Yeah, his guitars cost some coin (justifiably, or not, save that debate for another thread) but he wants to make sure that everyone that owns one of his guitars is going to do justice to his company and his vision.

Also, its great marketing because everyone wants to be found to be "good enough for a blackmachine"


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 22, 2012)

You were right about the last part - its great marketing. The rest is speculation., unfortunately.


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## Black Mamba (Aug 22, 2012)

Will these be completely handmade, or with CNC?


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## elq (Aug 22, 2012)

^ who cares?


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## Black Mamba (Aug 22, 2012)

^ Oh, don't get me wrong, I was just curious.


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## Dan Halen (Aug 22, 2012)

Black Mamba said:


> Will these be completely handmade, or with CNC?



Dont take this as a punch or a snide remark. and its not just for you, its for anyone who may say this later as more of an argumentative point.

Either with CNC OR by hand theres plently of handwork to go around. there's no shortage of work even if it does go through a machine AT FIRST, but then theres plenty of sanding and carving one must do BY HAND to get it just right. the CNC machine only makes the process a little quicker and, more or less, Precise and consistant. so something that would take you 70 hours takes about 20 with the same amount of love and care as if you did all of it with your digits.

Some people seem to think that a CNC machine Degrades the wood, or even "sucks the soul" out of the product, but im pretty sure that most artists would agree that its 80% the person actually playing the instrument, that is any part of the soul and then the guitar+amp comprises the last 20%.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...take-cnc-timeframes-etc-interesting-read.html

this should be a noted post for all.

also Doug probably does it all by hand just because he enjoys it, but this is for other builders as well who cant afford that time.


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## SirMyghin (Aug 22, 2012)

I'll chime in with a resounding... Meh.

To try and buy a place and empty my savings, I think not.


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## leonardo7 (Aug 22, 2012)

Aren't CNC machines about $70,000 anyways? I would assume that most small time luthiers don't own one.


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 22, 2012)

leonardo7 said:


> Aren't CNC machines about $70,000 anyways? I would assume that most small time luthiers don't own one.



There are CNC machines of all different sizes, features, and complexity, and some can be had for a tenth of that amount, and some smaller more basic mills for even less than that. 

Though, a builder doesn't have to own a CNC to use one. A lot of shops outsource for certain work such as milling. 

Guys like Bowes, Thorn, Strandberg, S7, KxK, Oni, etc. who are far from "big time" use CNC.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 22, 2012)

Interesting


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 22, 2012)

...and most of the guys not using CNC machines are using templates anyway, so it's almost no different, except for the machine being more accurate.


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## iRaiseTheDead (Aug 22, 2012)

I knew that this day would come! Yes! Now to donate body parts


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## Maniacal (Aug 22, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> ^ I thought they were £4000+ :O



They are even more than that last time I saw Doug. 

I think it's great that Doug actually cares who he sells to, I feel extremely privileged to own one.


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## ROAR (Aug 22, 2012)

CNC machines make guitars sound better,

says no one with a brain


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## Dan Halen (Aug 22, 2012)

ROAR said:


> CNC machines make guitars sound better,
> 
> says no one with a brain



Doesn't degrade the product any either.


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## Devyn Eclipse Nav (Aug 22, 2012)

This is cool and all, but for me, it's all about the aesthetic, as I've never tried one of these, and doubtless never will.

I'd rather just get a Skervessen Raptor at this point.


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## TheBigGroove (Aug 22, 2012)

Zeno said:


> I'd rather just get a Skervessen Raptor at this point.



^werrrd up

also, if this guy is "worthy" than a lot more people should be...no offense to him or is band, just saying.
http://youtu.be/5H6Q8siFqOc


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## The Norsemen (Aug 22, 2012)

A lot of you are probably going to disagree but god damn.

I bet the white house staff didn't have to jump through as many hoops and
background checks as you guys are willing to do to get your hands on one of these things.

I guess I just don't understand the hype. 
I'll leave my opinion on these at that.

After you've gone through the process of getting one I hope you can put "Good enough to own a BlackMachine" 
on your resumé and it qualifies you for every job in the world and gives you perfect credit.


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## loktide (Aug 22, 2012)

'10 places only'

you gotta admire how Doug's in the position to make about 100.000$ (or more) within a few days just by posting that phrase on his website.


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## SamSam (Aug 22, 2012)

I like the way people say he keeps them out of the hands of rich kids by being exclusive. His prices suggest otherwise. And while I'm in a position where I can comfortably afford one it's, still a large enough sum for me to think I'd rather have a motorbike or a car next summer. Or save for a deposit on a home


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## DoomJazz (Aug 22, 2012)

My heart stopped a little when reading all of this... I still have a chance for my future...


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 22, 2012)

Look, I really hate to be an asshole, but this is a serious question and I would be interested to know the answer.

What the fuck is so special about Blackmachine?

Why does everyone go shit-crazy for them? I imagine they're really, really nice guitars but are they really so much better than the vast majority of any other custom brands out there who will do a similar thing, except order places are readily available?

What makes them worth the inflated prices that people pay for them, and the frankly ridiculous ordeals that people put themselves through just to get one? I understand that Doug cares who he sells to, but IMO making every single one of your buyers jump through all these hoops isn't really on.

I think this is a reasonable question.


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## Vicious7 (Aug 22, 2012)

Interview Packet Excerpt for Consideration of 2013 Build by Doug

"Name?
Age?
Years Playing?
Why do you think you want a MlackBachine (state in no fewer than 45,000 words)?
How often do you play guitar?
How often do you change the strings?
Do you oil your fretboard?
Wash hands before, during and after each fretted note?
Do you cook a three course meal for your guitar each day?
If not, why?
Will you consent to a polygraph for above information?
Will you donate bone marrow for blood ritual sacrament?
If not, why?
Present 23 separate, non related references stating your honesty and integrity.
At least 3 of those references must be by: Zakk Wylde, Dave Mustaine (only if getting and ERG, otherwise Billy Corgin) and Yngwie Malmsteen."


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 22, 2012)

Got to love these BM threads.

So much misinformation about the prices and getting on the waiting list. Do people just make this stuff up off the top of there head because 90% of what people have said in this thread isn't true or is very exaggerated. 



BucketheadRules said:


> What is so special about Blackmachine?



Doug is one of the most genuine down to earth guys I've ever met and his B2 is the best guitar I've ever played. Try one sometime if possible and decide for yourself before forming an opinion(good or bad).


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## 3074326 (Aug 22, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> Try one sometime if possible and decide for yourself before forming an opinion(good or bad).



I think I'll just go down to the local music store and try their nice selection of Blackmachines. 

I wish I could just try one. Fuck, I've only ever seen one in person once. 

(I know you said "if possible," I'm just saying)


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## SirMyghin (Aug 22, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> What the fuck is so special about Blackmachine?



You get to be part of the club if you end up scoring one... Bout it as far as I can see. Doug doesn't exactly own the 'best luthier ever' award in a global luthier showdown or anything.


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## Jake (Aug 22, 2012)

I think they look nice, but I wouldnt ever actually try to get one because it will never happen. I'd go to talk to siggery or skervesen instead and still be able to have a financial future. And i mean this with no offense to Doug his guitars look amazing and im sure they play amazing but the price point will never allow me to try one.


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## Birdman (Aug 22, 2012)

Great to hear that some people can order a Blackmachine.

Doug is a really cool guy and build really great guitars.
I've played his personal B2 at Messe Frankfurt in 2011 and 2012.
These guitars are playing fantastic, have a great feeling, looking very nice
and sounds unbelievable.

and yes ... in the past I`d like to order a B2 very much.

Doug had great ideas with the headstock, the body cut/shaping and
the art of bindings....

But now I'm glad that Doug has inspired other young guitar luthiers.
That`s a reason that we can go to other great guitars with a really nice style, playability etc.
That makes me happy


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## Syriel (Aug 22, 2012)

I knew this thread was gonna explode.


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## Churchie777 (Aug 22, 2012)

I Don't want a BlackMachine


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## Valennic (Aug 22, 2012)

717ctsjz said:


> I think they look nice, but I wouldnt ever actually try to get one because it will never happen. I'd go to talk to siggery or skervesen instead and still be able to have a financial future. And i mean this with no offense to Doug his guitars look amazing and im sure they play amazing but the price point will never allow me to try one.



Think of it as an investment.

An investment with a potentially asininely high resale value.


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## Jake (Aug 22, 2012)

Valennic said:


> Think of it as an investment.
> 
> An investment with a potentially asininely high resale value.


thats true haha however i tend to abuse my guitars so my investment might not keep its value. Although i have done a really good job at keeping my rga321 minty cant say that much for my others 

I can definitely see the reason people want them and if they can afford them then theres no problem. I think I'll stick with my prestiges  haha


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## JP Universe (Aug 22, 2012)

LOVE BM threads 

I'd love to play one... I'm curious as to whether there would be any in Australia?
Oh well... I'll just drool at the pics and read the hype


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## Hollowway (Aug 22, 2012)

Adeamus said:


> I think its awesome that Doug has enough pride in his product that he doesn't just want rich kids playing his guitars.



Yeah, I'm not sure about that. You can't have it both ways. You either give it to musicians you think will use it the way you want it, or you price it for rich kids. The music industry, unfortunately, is not one where talented metal musicians can spend unlimited amount of money. I hate to be cynical, but Doug is a marketing genius, got lucky with being in the right place at the right time, and is making oodles of money. I can't blame him. But I don't buy the whole idea that he's looking out for these going to true musicians. I will also go on record to say that we're in a "Blackmachine bubble" and that at some point in the future these guitars won't be worth anywhere near what they are now. How long that takes depends on how carefully Doug manages his brand.


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## Mitochondria (Aug 22, 2012)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure about that. You can't have it both ways. You either give it to musicians you think will use it the way you want it, or you price it for rich kids. The music industry, unfortunately, is not one where talented metal musicians can spend unlimited amount of money. I hate to be cynical, but Doug is a marketing genius, got lucky with being in the right place at the right time, and is making oodles of money. I can't blame him. But I don't buy the whole idea that he's looking out for these going to true musicians. I will also go on record to say that we're in a "Blackmachine bubble" and that at some point in the future these guitars won't be worth anywhere near what they are now. How long that takes depends on how carefully Doug manages his brand.



I think about this a lot. Is blackmachine the modern day 59' Les Paul? How much will a blackmachine guitar go for in 2040?


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## Jonathan20022 (Aug 22, 2012)

Who cares, guitars shouldn't be thought of as a financial investment (To the player). But as a musical and playing investment.

Of course, that doesn't apply to everyone like store owners and such. But I don't really like it when someone has a 59 Les Paul or a 60's/70's Strat just because he's hoping to make a killing on it. These are musical instruments, and should be treated as such, which is why I like Fred's mentality when it comes to his instruments, he doesn't mind taking his BlackMachine and other high end customs out on the road because they were meant to be played, not kept in a glass case.

Nothing against collectors, but I can't personally see myself caring how much a guitar is worth unless I'm doing a trade on here.


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## elq (Aug 23, 2012)

44 Lines said:


> I think about this a lot. Is blackmachine the modern day 59' Les Paul? How much will a blackmachine guitar go for in 2040?




 I hope you're kidding. The '59 burst is so popular today because bands that filled stadiums in the 60's played them. Bands that fill stadiums today don't play blackmachines. And given that I've only ever seen a blackmachine on the internet and that Doug will build less than a dozen per year, I don't see that changing any time soon.


Doug's guitars might be absolutely fantastic, but they are the metal guitarists version of


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2012)

I don't think we should be calling him a marketing genius - it doesn't take a genius to mark a product up when the demand starts coming in, while simultaneously "halting production". He got lucky, I think. He has done a smart thing in terms of marketing, but marketing geniuses are millionaires or better in most cases. Dude isn't making enough guitars to be a major success in that regard, he just has a cool thing going for his self, and is presumably making decent money from doing something he loves.


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## Danukenator (Aug 23, 2012)

I disagree. Look at this thread. There as a mystery surrounding the brand that people are willing to argue about. 

What's the best guitar? Blackmachine. Have you played one? No.

Not many brands have the loyalty of people who don't own anything they've made.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2012)

That doesn't make anybody a genius, it just is what it is.


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## Hollowway (Aug 23, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> Not many brands have the loyalty of people who don't own anything they've made.



Sort of. But we (certainly I) tend to forget we are like 0.00000001% of the guitar playing public.  We could fit all of the Blackmachine fans into a pretty small space. But I'll agree that SSO, in general, sure does get whipped up into a frenzy over something most of us have never even seen in person.


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## potatohead (Aug 23, 2012)

This reminds me of Ferrari's marketing and availability tactics. It doesn't matter if your name in Barack Obama, you cannot go into a Ferrari dealer and buy a new Ferrari, if you are not on a pre-approved list. Dealers are prohibited from accepting any amount of money for a car from anyone who is not on the list. 

If you are on the list, which usually happens after you have owned several used Ferraris for several years or more, you can buy a new one. If you flip that new one for profit within 24 months or something, you're black-listed. 

This whole Blackmachine ordering process sounds almost the same. Control supply and keep prices high to make your products ultra exclusive. There are other options with the same quality level that anyone can buy at any time, but they don't hold the same finely-crafted level of prestige, which is really just all in people's minds.


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## Danukenator (Aug 23, 2012)

So, your explanation of his success is that...he was lucky?

First off, your contradicting yourself, " He has done a smart thing in terms of marketing."

You then follow that with "but marketing geniuses are millionaires or better in most cases." Which is utter nonsense. He clearly didn't attempt to expand into a higher production model. Instead, he created a market where he could make a living making a very small number of guitars or even guitars that he gets to spec out. Besides, small guitar builders don't make millions.

EDIT: And Potatohead knocks it out of the park.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

You are wrong about the ferrari dealership. Anyone can walk in and buy one.


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## potatohead (Aug 23, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> You are wrong about the ferrari dealership. Anyone can walk in and buy one.


 
Used yes, new no. 

Also the wait on a new one is 18 - 24 months, depending on model.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

Thats wrong too. I know the guys at the local dealership and they arent like that at all.


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## potatohead (Aug 23, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Thats wrong too. I know the guys at the local dealership and they arent like that at all.


 
You mean the one that just got its licence back after having it taken away for selling cars to guys in the US ten years or so ago? That one?

It seems as if they don't like to follow Ferrari's policies.


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## Valennic (Aug 23, 2012)

potatohead said:


> You mean the one that just got its licence back after having it taken away for selling cars to guys in the US ten years or so ago? That one?
> 
> It seems as if they don't like to follow Ferrari's policies.



I hope Doug adopts those policies.

That'd be hilarious.


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## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> So, your explanation of his success is that...he was lucky?
> 
> First off, your contradicting yourself, " He has done a smart thing in terms of marketing."
> 
> ...



You don't know the difference between "smart" and "genius"? I love how we've become desensitized to descriptive words.

Edit: oh, and he got lucky in the sense that his guitars became popular enough for him to try out the whole exclusivity thing. Mind you, Blackmachine was getting attention when there wasn't nearly as many small builders getting attention as there are now. Even then, though, this is a small world of gear nerds, and these things only matter to us.


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## elq (Aug 23, 2012)

potatohead said:


> Used yes, new no.
> 
> Also the wait on a new one is 18 - 24 months, depending on model.



unless you're thinking of a model like the Enzo or an F-50 or one of their limited production cars, if you got the $$, they'll give you the keys.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

Yeah Eric is right, I would know too 

Ill ask him if thats a real policu


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## potatohead (Aug 23, 2012)

elq said:


> unless you're thinking of a model like the Enzo or an F-50 or one of their limited production cars, if you got the $$, they'll give you the keys.


 
I wish I was in position to buy one, but I have researched and I have never heard this to be true. 

Maybe a new one the dealer ordered for stock and it's sitting there, but if I walked into a dealer tomorrow and wanted to order a 458, from everything I have ever heard and researched, I could not do it. There is even a famous story about Justin Timberlake getting told to get bent when he wanted to buy one from the Ferrari dealer in the Wynn hotel in Vegas. It probably differs per model also, a less popular model you probably could.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

There is a ferrari in my garage. My dad walked in dressed like shit and bought it. There is no list.


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## potatohead (Aug 23, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> There is a ferrari in my garage. My dad walked in dressed like shit and bought it. There is no list.


 
New, and bought within the last five years? What model?


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

4 m/o old cali one and a half years ago and then sold it back and bought a new cali in a different colour this year - from the dealership.


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## elq (Aug 23, 2012)

I really don't know where you're hearing this shit. I'm not famous. I'm not special. But I have had lots of disposable income at various points in my life. 

At one point, my ego wanted to be stroked (and since I had a company that was doing well enough) and I looked into buying a 355. The local dealer would've been happy to sell me one, in fact he tried quite hard, but good sense took over and I walked away.

Every couple of years Ferrai introduces a limited car. Generally capped at 349. You need a relationship with a dealer who has one allocated to be offered one of these. But every one of their normal production models is open to anyone with money. Niether taste, class, nor fame are required.


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## potatohead (Aug 23, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> 4 m/o old cali one and a half years ago and then sold it back and bought a new cali in a different colour this year - from the dealership.


 
Well, it IS a California... Cool car but not flying off the shelves either. On the other hand I wish my dad was half that cool 

As far as buying a new 355, that would have been close to 20 years ago.


This thread has been officially derailed so lets get back on topic.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

Womans ferrari


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## tr0n (Aug 23, 2012)

Word about Doug taking orders started spreading earlier this month. When I emailed him he seemed positive about working something out so fingers crossed.


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## MythicSquirrel (Aug 23, 2012)

Sooner or later, all Blackmachine threads end up as huge arguments...


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## Koop (Aug 23, 2012)

MythicSquirrel said:


> Sooner or later, all Blackmachine threads end up as huge arguments...




Yeah, I anxiously wait to see how this thread will turn out


----------



## Bloody_Inferno (Aug 23, 2012)

Awaiting Bulb's next NGD to be one of these in 5.....4.....3.....2.......1......


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## Valennic (Aug 23, 2012)

Bloody_Inferno said:


> Awaiting Bulb's next NGD to be one of these in 5.....4.....3.....2.......1......



Well Bulb DOES have a B7 in progress IIRC.


----------



## Maniacal (Aug 23, 2012)

Fuck yeah! 

I'm getting a B2!


----------



## hairychris (Aug 23, 2012)

I don't think that Doug is pulling any particular marketing stunt. I'll be perfectly willing to believe that he was pissed off with the whole business of building customs and was thinking of jacking it in. He loves his guitars but doesn't like the business side of it, so to that degree he's painted himself into a corner by doing what he does. However, no-one *has* to buy one of his guitars so you're not forced to go through the process.

As for anyone complaining about cost... Assuming that this 10 guitars go for top dollar, 4000GBP+, after materials and expenses it isn't the greatest living. And again, if you don't like the price, don't buy it. Same goes with any bespoke product, by definition it'll be low volume and relatively high cost, be it a car, sofa or instrument.

The "hype" is retarded. Lots of folks who have no clue (with some exceptions) bumping their chops, but hey, it's the internet and it happens for everything.

As for the Ferrari comparison, well you had to be on their list to be offered the Enzo, and the FFX requirements were even more restrictive! I wonder if Stealth's dad was offered one of those?

Whatever.


----------



## vinniemallet (Aug 23, 2012)

You're right, you can buy any normal common Ferrari, but for limited editions you gotta have at least some past Ferrari's and there is a private club with some exclusive owners that have acess to the F-50 and Enzo etc, I remember this thing beucase only 1 guy on Brazil had acess to that and could get the F-50, but ye that was a few years ago, I think 1999 not sure. soz for my bad english



elq said:


> I really don't know where you're hearing this shit. I'm not famous. I'm not special. But I have had lots of disposable income at various points in my life.
> 
> At one point, my ego wanted to be stroked (and since I had a company that was doing well enough) and I looked into buying a 355. The local dealer would've been happy to sell me one, in fact he tried quite hard, but good sense took over and I walked away.
> 
> Every couple of years Ferrai introduces a limited car. Generally capped at 349. You need a relationship with a dealer who has one allocated to be offered one of these. But every one of their normal production models is open to anyone with money. Niether taste, class, nor fame are required.


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## HighGain510 (Aug 23, 2012)

hairychris said:


> As for anyone complaining about cost... Assuming that this 10 guitars go for top dollar, 4000GBP+, *after materials* and expenses it isn't the greatest living.



While I would NEVER say a luthier is a rolling in the dough (because more often than not, most are just barely getting by, it's like making minimum wage for many! ), one thing I've seen mentioned a dozen times when it comes to Blackmachine is that he's using materials that are crazy expensive or super high quality. You can try to argue that, but MOST of what he uses is regular, off-the-shelf stuff that you can buy anywhere in the world. Ash is not expensive. Most mahogany isn't crazy expensive. Ebony tops might get pricey to find a nice enough piece, but they're also not very thick so there's that too. 

It's not like Doug has some mythical stash that he's hand-selecting in person from shops around the world.  Maple, ash, rosewood etc. are all not overly expensive to buy, neither are the components he's using for the rest of the hardware (I mean hell, the neck screws are just plain wood screws! ). I didn't comment about it in the kid's NGD thread, but he built a B6 that had a MONSTER knot in the ash body. You can argue whether or not that would affect the tone of the instrument, but regardless of that aspect, knotty pieces of wood are typically less expensive and not sought after aesthetically so again if you're trying to say he's using "choice" pieces of wood, I just don't buy that argument.  

Also, last I checked they're not growing most of those woods in the UK so he's basically doing like everyone else and ordering them from a lumber shop and having them shipped to him, so again likely not hand-selecting anything.  Based on the cost of having wood shipped to him, I doubt he would consider just tossing a bad piece which is why you see stuff like ash bodies with knots in them still being built into B6's. If I were dropping that kind of cash, I wouldn't be a huge fan of that, personally. 

The hardware he's using is regular off-the-shelf stuff, anyone can source a Hannes bridge or BKP pickups without issue or incurring a ridiculous cost behind it (and if you're buying 10-15 sets, I'd be inclined to think he's able to get dealer cost which means even more savings), so even factoring that into the build, the hardware on these isn't really a huge material cost either. Between the wood cost and hardware, that's still leaving a TON of gap between what the material cost of the instrument is and what he's asking for these guitars. I'm not questioning what he wants to charge for them here as I know that luthiers have to make a living and most don't get paid nearly enough, but the gap between the cost of the materials and how much labor is REALLY going into each guitar seems more than a bit off. I've seen folks make "copies" (again, without knowing what chambering or whatever Doug is/isn't employing is hard to say, but even that isn't going to add THAT much more time to the build) using a saw, a few router bits and some sanding materials and have the guitars come out looking nearly identical on the outside, so I still couldn't say there's some magic behind the build of his stuff as the neck joint is pretty basic as are the top/rear carves.

All of those things are part of why to date, even after playing Misha's B6 and B2, I've never bothered contacting him about a build. I thought that Misha's B2 was a killer sounding guitar and it played great, but to order something like that from Doug I can only imagine how crazy the price tag would be, not to mention I'm likely not even a "candidate" (I can't even say customer, as customers typically can just go ahead and buy goods they're looking for without any type of approval process ) to own one.  The B6 did nothing for me at all, and after seeing stuff like the knotty wood I was pretty turned off.


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## SDMFVan (Aug 23, 2012)

I'd never heard of Blackmachine before I started posting here, and I've never seen them mentioned on any other guitar forum I frequent. That's pretty much all I can add.

Oh, and Kim Kardashian drives a brand new Ferrari.


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## mountainjam (Aug 23, 2012)

I'm just waiting for Doug to collaborate with Ferrari now and make the limited edition blackmachine Ferrari. It will be the hardest object ever in history to obtain


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## HighGain510 (Aug 23, 2012)

mountainjam said:


> I'm just waiting for Doug to collaborate with Ferrari now and make the limited edition blackmachine Ferrari. It will be the hardest object ever in history to obtain



"The highest spec Ferrari ever..... BlackFerrari." 







Please submit resume and last year's W-2 to apply.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 23, 2012)

^ You don't have to give them a lock of your first born's hair as collateral? Just a resume and W-2?


----------



## Fiction (Aug 23, 2012)




----------



## Konfyouzd (Aug 23, 2012)

See... I was a cynical ass before, but after that pic, I want one. 

I love that you went through the trouble of putting a fuckin' spoiler on it!


----------



## vinniemallet (Aug 23, 2012)

Best post ever AHHAHA



Fiction said:


>


----------



## Pooluke41 (Aug 23, 2012)

Fiction said:


>



I'd .GIF you, but I've done that about 700 times in the last two days. 

(Well about two times actually. )


----------



## IB-studjent- (Aug 23, 2012)

I get that these things are highly desirable, and a lot of people like and would buy them, but what I don't understand is the price. What does Doug use that other luthiers like Vik, etc. don't use ?


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 23, 2012)

They're priced like collector's pieces really. And based on the availablity that's more or less what they've become.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Aug 23, 2012)

Overpriced guitars are overpriced.


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## slayercannibalsuffohead (Aug 23, 2012)

What is "Black Machine"?


----------



## Pooluke41 (Aug 23, 2012)

IB-studjent- said:


> I get that these things are highly desirable, and a lot of people like and would buy them, but what I don't understand is the price. What does Doug use that other luthiers like Vik, etc. don't use ?



Doug uses magical elderbritch wood grown from the purest grove of elderbritch trees in the world. The trees are smothered in Honey taken from the most rarest strain of bees in the world. The sap alone is worth £500,000,000 per gallon. The planks of elderbritch Doug buys are cut using Buddhist monks Chi and shaped using the Norse god Loki's magical planer. The bark is known around the world as the material for a pick worthy of a god. The soil surrounding the roots is also known as one of the most magical soils in the world.

And he uses Bareknuckles.

I think you'll find that the price is well deserved. 

/endsarcasm


----------



## Konfyouzd (Aug 23, 2012)

Inb4 someone takes that seriously


----------



## WiseSplinter (Aug 23, 2012)

Why is Doug selling all his "personal" guitars? Didn't he also recently sell his own B7, the clone of Fred's? And now his F8?

Perhaps, like the rest of us, he likes new toys  , even Doug gets wet at the thought of spanking a new BlackMachine.
Or he thinks his new ones will be significantly better ...


----------



## HighGain510 (Aug 23, 2012)

Fiction said:


>



I lol'd.


----------



## Danukenator (Aug 23, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> You don't know the difference between "smart" and "genius"? I love how we've become desensitized to descriptive words.



 Please, I didn't realize this was a battle of semantics. 

Personally, I fail to see what he could have done to promote his brand better. Regardless of if he is "smart" or a "genius" the point is that he has done a superb job of marketing his brand to the market he is attempting to appeal to.


----------



## robintpup2 (Aug 23, 2012)

Just my two cents, but my guitar teacher and friend owns a Blackmachine (entry level 6 string), which i've played. It was undoubtedly the best guitar for metal i've played, and it was definitely a fantastic guitar. However, when asking him about it, he said he wasn't as impressed with it as most people are, and prefers to stick to the customs a friend made for him. He's also on the list for a custom Strandberg  basically, I would say that while its probably just about the best guitar you can get for metal, its probably not this dream instrument that many people make it out to be.


----------



## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 23, 2012)

WiseSplinter said:


> Why is Doug selling all his "personal" guitars? Didn't he also recently sell his own B7, the clone of Fred's? And now his F8?
> 
> Perhaps, like the rest of us, he likes new toys  , even Doug gets wet at the thought of spanking a new BlackMachine.
> Or he thinks his new ones will be significantly better ...



Neither the recently sold B7 or currently for sale F8 were intended as his personal guitars afaik, he loves his koa B2 (almost identical to Misha's one) and it's very difficult that he will let it go, says that he's find his tone with it (very fat and mean, but at the same time beautiful musical highs).


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## Pooluke41 (Aug 23, 2012)

robintpup2 said:


> Blackmachine (entry level 6 string).





Entry level?


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## jephjacques (Aug 23, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> They're priced like collector's pieces really. And based on the availablity that's more or less what they've become.



Agreed.

I'm sure they're fantastic guitars, but at this price point you're buying a piece of art that also happens to be a functional intrument.

Whether they're "worth the hype" is almost a moot point- they're so collectible now that I guarantee anybody reselling one of these guitars down the road would get a good return on their investment.


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## hairychris (Aug 23, 2012)

Fiction said:


>



Fucking


----------



## MetalDaze (Aug 23, 2012)

Maniacal said:


> Fuck yeah!
> 
> I'm getting a B2!


 


FrancescoFiligoi said:


> On a site note, B7 for me yayyy!


 
2 spots already reserved?


----------



## hairychris (Aug 23, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> <snip>



Fair enough points - and you have first hand experience as opposed to the  that always seems to happen on these threads! 

Having a knotty body is a bit  but I have seen a pics of a BRW PRS neck that had a huge knot in it & they let it through (they bandsaw with abandon)...

Anyway, I won't be ordering one so all academic for me!


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## HighGain510 (Aug 23, 2012)

hairychris said:


> Fair enough points - and you have first hand experience as opposed to the  that always seems to happen on these threads!
> 
> Having a knotty body is a bit  but I have seen a pics of a BRW PRS neck that had a huge knot in it & they let it through (they bandsaw with abandon)...
> 
> Anyway, I won't be ordering one so all academic for me!



Haha yeah I've seen PRS use Brazilian Rosewood for necks on limited models that were essentially stumpwood with lots of knots and people go "OH THAT LOOKS SWEET!" then wonder why they have dead spots in their neck...


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## hairychris (Aug 23, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> Haha yeah I've seen PRS use Brazilian Rosewood for necks on limited models that were essentially stumpwood with lots of knots and people go "OH THAT LOOKS SWEET!" then wonder why they have dead spots in their neck...



Not so much crackwood as methwood...


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## hairychris (Aug 23, 2012)

Right, my work here is done.

Time to get home and wallow naked with my Blackmachines and PRSi.


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 23, 2012)

Pooluke41 said:


> Entry level?



By that he presumably means there were only seven zeros on the end of the price tag.


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## Blackheim (Aug 23, 2012)

Well I think we should wait until somebody got accepted by Doug and actually can order one and know r the estimate price instead of being speculating.


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## leonardo7 (Aug 23, 2012)

MetalDaze said:


> 2 spots already reserved?



You can make that 3!


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## Maniacal (Aug 23, 2012)

MetalDaze said:


> 2 spots already reserved?



Yep. Price sorted too. 

Wish I had the money to buy the F8 so I could have 3 BMs = SS.org enemy number 1


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## Rook (Aug 23, 2012)

Well if people are getting spots confirmed and I haven't even heard back I guess that means I'm not worthy.


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## leonardo7 (Aug 23, 2012)

Fun111 said:


> Well if people are getting spots confirmed and I haven't even heard back I guess that means I'm not worthy.



I had been in talks with him for months. He had hinted over 6 months ago that he is still building guitars and that there may be an opportunity for something in the summer but not really saying if it would be a few guitars in stock or what. He had responded to an email in late June telling me to get ahold of him end August to discuss a build as he was anticipating to be all caught up enough to take some orders by end Aug. I just got put on to the list today. How many spot are available as of now we really don't know. I hope you get in!


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 23, 2012)

leonardo7 said:


> You can make that 3!



Four with someone you know  His build is going to be crazy


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## sakeido (Aug 23, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> Please, I didn't realize this was a battle of semantics.
> 
> Personally, I fail to see what he could have done to promote his brand better. Regardless of if he is "smart" or a "genius" the point is that he has done a superb job of marketing his brand to the market he is attempting to appeal to.



imo only reason anybody knows what about a blackmachine is, is because he happened to sell a couple guitars to a guy named Graham Pinney.



HighGain510 said:


> It's not like Doug has some mythical stash that he's hand-selecting in person from shops around the world.


ehhh he does seem to have some lumber that is a cut above what most luthiers have. remember the snakewood necked guitars? he apparently had a nice bit of redwood for me but it got stolen out of his shed and I didn't find out until a few months later, and even then it wasn't Doug that told me. that about the midway point of the beginning of the end for my BM


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## technomancer (Aug 23, 2012)

sakeido said:


> ehhh he does seem to have some lumber that is a cut above what most luthiers have. remember the snakewood necked guitars? he apparently had a nice bit of redwood for me but it got stolen out of his shed and I didn't find out until a few months later, and even then it wasn't Doug that told me. that about the midway point of the beginning of the end for my BM



Gilmer gets snakewood logs in from time to time, not that big a deal if you don't mind dropping the money for it. Is it fairly rare? Sure. Is it some magical unobtainable fairy dust wood? No. The biggest reason you don't see snakewood often is its incredible hard and brittle and very prone to cracking and splintering.

Aged mahogany is the same way, not common but not impossible to get either. 

If you take the time to look none of this stuff is unobtainable.


----------



## MJS (Aug 23, 2012)

WiseSplinter said:


> Why is Doug selling all his "personal" guitars?



He needed the cash to fund his Siggery build.


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## faceforward_007 (Aug 23, 2012)

leonardo7 said:


> You can make that 3!



Soooo, so far most of the people getting on the list already have a BM, wtf?? 

I've sent him emails for a few years, got one response with the last B7 build basically saying that he was looking for a higher price, I upped my price and then never heard from him again

And I haven't gotten a response yet, so doubtful I make it on this list, which kind of sucks cause you really do have to know the guy to get an axe

Or, maybe i'm a douche and he knows it, one or the other, lol


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## canuck brian (Aug 23, 2012)

technomancer said:


> Gilmer gets snakewood logs in from time to time, not that big a deal if you don't mind dropping the money for it. Is it fairly rare? Sure. Is it some magical unobtainable fairy dust wood? No. The biggest reason you don't see snakewood often is its incredible hard and brittle and very prone to cracking and splintering.
> 
> Aged mahogany is the same way, not common but not impossible to get either.
> 
> If you take the time to look none of this stuff is unobtainable.



I've got 2 8 foot boards of snakewood right now. I could probably make 6 solid one piece necks out of them. It's not a hard wood to find, it's a hard wood to find a defect free piece of big enough for necks and neck laminates. Just need to be vigilant. Doug doesn't have a wood storage at the end of the rainbow, he's just good at getting some really nice pieces. 

I'm really looking forward to seeing a pile of NGD's on these. I really like the look of the more exotic Blackmachines.


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## engage757 (Aug 23, 2012)

I AM IN!!! B2 here I come! now hopefully the world doesn't end in 2012


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## Jake (Aug 23, 2012)

engage757 said:


> I AM IN!!! B2 here I come! now hopefully the world doesn't end in 2012


It's about time you get a BM hahah


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## engage757 (Aug 23, 2012)

leonardo7 said:


> I had been in talks with him for months. He had hinted over 6 months ago that he is still building guitars and that there may be an opportunity for something in the summer but not really saying if it would be a few guitars in stock or what. He had responded to an email in late June telling me to get ahold of him end August to discuss a build as he was anticipating to be all caught up enough to take some orders by end Aug. I just got put on to the list today. How many spot are available as of now we really don't know. I hope you get in!




He just emailed me back with pricing and I told him I was in! He talks as if I am in, so hopefully I am! YEARS of waiting coming to fruition!


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## Blackheim (Aug 23, 2012)

engage757 said:


> He just emailed me back with pricing and I told him I was in! He talks as if I am in, so hopefully I am! YEARS of waiting coming to fruition!



Wow that is really nice... I would love to know an aproximate so I can at least attempt to contact him... I want a F8 so hard!


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## SamSam (Aug 23, 2012)

Sent an email. Don't know what to expect. Fingers crossed. I'm not expecting anything but all I can really do is try.


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## sage (Aug 23, 2012)

The whole "these are gonna be the last blackmachines EVAR!" thing reminds me of a band in these parts. Seminal Vancouver punk band D.O.A., over about a 4 year span, played about 9 "last D.O.A. show EVAR!"s. And we all fell for it. Dropped $15 to be one of the 400 people to see the last show. I think I missed their actual last show. 

And now, back to your regularly scheduled thread...


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## vinniemallet (Aug 23, 2012)

I got an aswner also, hard decision to make LOL


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## R1chter (Aug 23, 2012)

Whoa, this is tempting but I just got my Suhr!

Might just email to see what the pricing is like...


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

Well now im a little pissed because Doug had emailed me telling me spots were going to open up in august but he mever responded about prices. Oh well.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Aug 23, 2012)

I love to sit and watch these Blackmachine threads. 

"Congrats" to those on the list and "never mind" to those who didn't/don't make it. Look elsewhere and maybe you'll find the "next" Blackmachine.

Yes I've played them (starting in 2003), and whilst they're up there, there are guitars that are just as good that are more accesible.


----------



## faceforward_007 (Aug 23, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Well now im a little pissed because Doug had emailed me telling me spots were going to open up in august but he mever responded about prices. Oh well.



Still got a Vik on the way buddy, don't feel too bummed out. Look at his wait list, its probably worse than Doug's was a few years ago


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

Yeah Im really grateful we got those viks before the waits got to 2-3 years like they are now


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## Rook (Aug 23, 2012)

aaaaaand I've lost interest again.

I do wish one of the (now several) people who've told me they'll build me a guitar at some stage in my life actually will soon...


----------



## Khoi (Aug 23, 2012)

SamSam said:


> Sent an email. Don't know what to expect. Fingers crossed. I'm not expecting anything but all I can really do is try.



same, I don't even know if I'll get a response. It seems that you have to word it in a particular way in order to have Doug recognize you, or that you have to be a person of interest and in the club.

we'll see.


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> Please, I didn't realize this was a battle of semantics.
> 
> Personally, I fail to see what he could have done to promote his brand better. Regardless of if he is "smart" or a "genius" the point is that he has done a superb job of marketing his brand to the market he is attempting to appeal to.




I'm sorry, are you just trying to pick a fight? Or did you manage to read what you wanted to read rather than what I said? I said that we shouldn't call him a marketing genius, because he hasn't done anything remarkable in terms of marketing. What he did was smart, sure, and it worked out for him, but saying he is a marketing genius is taking it a little far. He's still a small time builder no matter how you paint it.


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## HighGain510 (Aug 23, 2012)

Misha says "Relax, buddy, you'll get your BlackMachine!"


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## potatohead (Aug 23, 2012)

Fiction said:


>


 
Absolute hilarity

Well done


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> Misha says "Relax, buddy, you'll get your BlackMachine!"



Why you have a picture of misha showering i dont even


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 23, 2012)

In Matt's defense, Misha just posted that on Facebook earlier today 

I must say, though, that mirror + razor holder combo is cool - I need one of those.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 23, 2012)

Ah ok I thought it was just something he had saved from when misha goes to his house and they "hang out".


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## HighGain510 (Aug 23, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Ah ok I thought it was just something he had saved from when misha goes to his house and they "hang out".


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## Pascal-Darrell (Aug 24, 2012)

I´m also in dudes !  I bribed him with belgium beer  haha


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 24, 2012)

^ Now we know the secret...

Mass email in 5... 4... 3...


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## engage757 (Aug 24, 2012)

Blackheim said:


> Well I think we should wait until somebody got accepted by Doug and actually can order one and know r the estimate price instead of being speculating.



Base price for ebony top
B2 £4000
B7 £4500
F8 £6000


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## pylyo (Aug 24, 2012)

you gotta be kidding, right?

you can get 2 Vik's for the price of b7 (at least when I was mailling with Vik).. damn

what a freakin investment was that, just 2 years ago or so. But in case of selling, now it's the right time.
I doub't 2nd hand will keep that high pricing for a long.


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## ikarus (Aug 24, 2012)

engage757 said:


> Base price for ebony top
> B2 £4000
> B7 £4500
> F8 £6000


----------



## Adam Of Angels (Aug 24, 2012)

What a buy!

I'd like to try one of these guitars, but I think that's about it.


----------



## vinniemallet (Aug 24, 2012)

To be honest I think you can even sell a used blackmachine for more than that, just like some people said it's not about a good damn instrument but also a unique piece of guitar, rare and exclusive.



pylyo said:


> you gotta be kidding, right?
> 
> you can get 2 Vik's for the price of b7 (at least when I was mailling with Vik).. damn
> 
> ...


----------



## Blackheim (Aug 24, 2012)

engage757 said:


> Base price for ebony top
> B2 £4000
> B7 £4500
> F8 £6000



So: 

B2 $6337.2
B7 $7129.3
F8 $9505.8








Well, back on topic... Good luck to those that can afford one and get the guitar of their dreams (I suppose)! 

I hope Doug will be able to project the mysticism of his guitars in the upcoming builds!


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## Malkav (Aug 24, 2012)

> B2 £4000
> B7 £4500
> F8 £6000


 
So in my country that's

B2 R60 784.80
B7 R68 382.90
F8 R91 177.20

Without shipping or insurance included of course 

To give you all some perspective on how shitty it is to be down here, minimum wage is about R2 000 a month, a 350ml can of coke costs R7, A Fender American Standard is R20 000.


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## Birdman (Aug 24, 2012)

Hi guys,

I can order a Blackmachine, but I would not. Now it's time that they are really overpriced.
Have emaild Doug and get the prices for Blackmachine `s

B2 £4000
B7 £4500
F8 £6000

I`ve played Dougs B2 and it is a very great guitar but not so good that I pay 4000 Pounds ( 5000 Euro`s) for a B2.
Sorry .... I do not pay 50% percent for the image.

I preferred to buy 2 or 3 Skervesen, 3 or 4 Siggery's or other very good guitar`s.


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## mountainjam (Aug 24, 2012)

My ff8 vik and ff8 oni that I'm waiting on combined will cost less than 1 ff8 blackmachine


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## dschonn (Aug 24, 2012)

All I can say is: Good luck to everybody who ordered one and is on the list. I´d be super freaked out about though, not knowing how those will turn out with the pressure that is on this single dude right now, with so many people willing to spend this nearly insane amount of money for one single instrument.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 24, 2012)

Well if he fucks up he's got one helluva rebuild budget.


----------



## Quitty (Aug 24, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> Well if he fucks up he's got one helluva rebuild budget.



Doug never fucks up.
His guitars simply deem you unworthy.


----------



## Lorcan Ward (Aug 24, 2012)

On the list for a B2!!!!! My mate is on for an F8 with some insane specs. 

Roughly these would be the prices in euro.

B2 £4000 - &#8364;5000
B7 £4500 - &#8364;5700
F8 £6000 - &#8364;7600

Its a lot but they are amazing guitars.


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## Jonathan20022 (Aug 24, 2012)

Quitty said:


> Doug never fucks up.
> His guitars simply deem you unworthy.



Expectations lead to disappointment! 

Haha but really, congrats to everyone that did get on the list. The prices are a little high, but not as astronomical as I envisioned it to be after the last BM thread happened and people started putting out numbers 

I don't really even know if I'd want to own one, I'm sure they're great instruments but I'd need the opportunity to have one in my hands before making an investment like that. Hopefully one of these days I can head over to NAMM and check one out.


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## SirMyghin (Aug 24, 2012)

So just keeping rough count, that is what 7 guys who frequent this forum on a 10 person list? Says some very interesting thing about tapping a niche market.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 24, 2012)

Sounds about right... Someone's got an SSO monopoly... Small builders must fuckin' love us.


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 24, 2012)

The list is already filled up, all the guys are on ss.org


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 24, 2012)

So many NGDs... In 2020...


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## Jinogalpa (Aug 24, 2012)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> The list is already filled up, all the guys are on ss.org




i see it coming, holy shit:


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## TheBigGroove (Aug 24, 2012)

engage757 said:


> Base price for ebony top
> B2 £4000
> B7 £4500
> F8 £6000



I could afford that...yet I get no love from douglass...what's the point of working 70 hours a week if I can't get what I want! THIS IS AMERICA!


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 24, 2012)

But he lives in the UK...


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 24, 2012)

Jinogalpa said:


> i see it coming, holy shit:



Actually it's very balanced: there's at least two F8, three B7 and three B2 afaik


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## Blackheim (Aug 24, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> On the list for a B2!!!!! My mate is on for an F8 with some insane specs.
> 
> Roughly these would be the prices in euro.
> 
> ...


 
I am really happy for you!! But have you played one before?


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## hairychris (Aug 24, 2012)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> The list is already filled up, all the guys are on ss.org


Really?

That's hilarious!


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 24, 2012)

I feel like that alone is a testament to the fact that BM is NOT as big a name as Gibson or Fender. Otherwise all 10 spots wouldn't be filled by niche guitar forumites...


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## Dan Halen (Aug 24, 2012)

Konfyouzd said:


> I feel like that alone is a testament to the fact that BM is NOT as big a name as Gibson or Fender. Otherwise all 10 spots wouldn't be filled by niche guitar forumites...



no one said BM is crazy huge!!


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## hairychris (Aug 24, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> no one said BM is crazy huge!!


Not about company size, as such, but knowledge of brand.

BM may be holy grail to some folks here and gets shouted about, but to most other guitar players? Never heard of it. Very niche.

BM's not even that well known in London amongst metal players fwiw. I still get "what the hell is that?" questions about my B7 occasionally when gigging it.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 24, 2012)

There was a huge argument either a few pages back in this very thread or in the other BM thread going on right now about whether or not BM was as recognized as aforementioned giants. I know what I read...


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## Fred the Shred (Aug 24, 2012)

Jinogalpa said:


> i see it coming, holy shit:



You see too many 7's, not enough 8's.


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## _MonSTeR_ (Aug 24, 2012)

hairychris said:


> Not about company size, as such, but knowledge of brand.
> 
> BM may be holy grail to some folks here and gets shouted about, but to most other guitar players? Never heard of it. Very niche.
> 
> BM's not even that well known in London amongst metal players fwiw. I still get "what the hell is that?" questions about my B7 occasionally when gigging it.



To be honest, this is the only board I know of where these are regarded as the holy grail, they're great guitars regardless, but TGP will be trying to sell you a Thorn or similar, JEMsite will have you after a vintage swirl JEM or a Donnie, and so on.

There are several luthiers on here and similar sites that might just be the next big thing and who's guitars are absolutely stellar


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## Pascal-Darrell (Aug 24, 2012)

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25496037.jpg
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/25496037.jpg



Damn I´m still too stupid to make the actual pic appear in the post -.-


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 24, 2012)

Blackheim said:


> I am really happy for you!! But have you played one before?



Of course. I would'nt order a hi-end custom unless I had played one before especially in that price region. I got to meet Doug and hang out with him when he was in Ireland last month. He brought his B2 & F8(for sale on the site). Incredible sounding guitars and absolutely effortless to play. 



My mates who is getting an F8 isn't on SSorg but he's a good mate of Doug's who planned the build a few years ago. Judging from the rough specs it is going to be epic!


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## FrancescoFiligoi (Aug 24, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> My mates who is getting an F8 isn't on SSorg but he's a good mate of Doug's who planned the build a few years ago. Judging from the rough specs it is going to be epic!



Oh so it's three F8s  awesome!


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## leonardo7 (Aug 24, 2012)

drawnacrol said:


> Of course. I would'nt order a hi-end custom unless I had played one before especially in that price region. I got to meet Doug and hang out with him when he was in Ireland last month. He brought his B2 & F8(for sale on the site). Incredible sounding guitars and absolutely effortless to play.
> 
> 
> 
> My mates who is getting an F8 isn't on SSorg but he's a good mate of Doug's who planned the build a few years ago. Judging from the rough specs it is going to be epic!




Nice playing! Any idea what pickups and woods those are in Dougs B2? 

And someone start a "whats your Blackmachine specs" thread already


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## Pascal-Darrell (Aug 24, 2012)

leonardo7 said:


> Nice playing! Any idea what pickups and woods those are in Dougs B2?
> 
> And someone start a "whats your Blackmachine specs" thread already




If I remember correctly these were coldsweats for the bridge and a painkiller neck.

Mahagony, Koa, rosewodd/ebony neck, and cocobolo fretboard


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## BucketheadRules (Aug 24, 2012)

Just seen this on Facebook - Ben from Rise To Remain (my guitar teacher ) doing some recording with a Blackmachine.






It was originally posted by Nolly, and shared by RTR so I guess it's Nolly's guitar.


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## Lorcan Ward (Aug 24, 2012)

leonardo7 said:


> Nice playing! Any idea what pickups and woods those are in Dougs B2?
> 
> And someone start a "whats your Blackmachine specs" thread already



Cheers dude! 

Mahogany Body, Koa top, Rosewood neck with ebony fillets, Cocobolo fretboard, Bareknuckle Cold Sweat Bridge and Painkiller Neck, Schaller Hannes Bridge and Jescar Jumbo Stainless Steel frets.

With Doug, Dylan, Vik, Siggery, Skervesen and Strandberg all pouring out guitars next year there are going to be so many awesome NGDs.


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 24, 2012)

BucketheadRules said:


> *dude with BM*


That's a nice ass top on that one!


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## OlisDead (Aug 24, 2012)

Pascal-Darrell said:


> If I remember correctly these were coldsweats for the bridge and a painkiller neck.
> 
> Mahagony, Koa, rosewodd/ebony neck, and cocobolo fretboard



Nice to see someone in Belgium scored one! Will it be possible to try it when you'll receive it in a few years?


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## Pascal-Darrell (Aug 24, 2012)

OlisDead said:


> Nice to see someone in Belgium scored one! Will it be possible to try it when you'll receive it in a few years?



sure man, you´re welcome  if you bring some of your customs with you


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## Konfyouzd (Aug 24, 2012)




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## narad (Aug 24, 2012)

FrancescoFiligoi said:


> The list is already filled up



That's a shame. I've had a blackmachine partition in my bank account ever since I first sold my B6 to fund a B7. After 3 years of trying, I think it's time to reluctantly reappropriate it. What's a fella gotta do? ::


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## faceforward_007 (Aug 24, 2012)

Well... who wants to sell a spot?? lol

Seriously, I just want to try one, that's it, chances are I'll get bored like everything else and sell it anyway.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 24, 2012)

You fuckers, well at least now I know how to pay when someone sells theirs lol


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## Fred the Shred (Aug 25, 2012)

Hey, any paltry 15K USD can score you my B7. You're welcome!


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## Maniacal (Aug 25, 2012)

And 25K USD can score my F8


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 25, 2012)

Disgusting, I would only buy one from someone I know who does not pee on their guitars, and everyone knows Fred and Maniacal pee on their guitars. Plus Maniacal can only play Flight of the Bumblebee at like 300 BPM anyways.


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## faceforward_007 (Aug 25, 2012)

You're too picky, pissed on or not, i'd buy them. Urine is sterile you know. 

15K... steal of a deal!


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## Syriel (Aug 26, 2012)

Filled up already? lol.

It probably would've gone unnoticed if I ( or someone else if I didn't ) didn't post it on the board, seeing as nearly all spots are by SS.org members.


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## Fred the Shred (Aug 26, 2012)

I was pretty much in talks with Doug already, so I had no idea how many spots or whatever there were, to be honest with you!


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## thrsher (Aug 26, 2012)

he already pulled off the 10 spots on the website


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## Valennic (Aug 26, 2012)

I never even got a reply


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## Danukenator (Aug 26, 2012)

Adam Of Angels said:


> I'm sorry, are you just trying to pick a fight? Or did you manage to read what you wanted to read rather than what I said? I said that we shouldn't call him a marketing genius, because he hasn't done anything remarkable in terms of marketing. What he did was smart, sure, and it worked out for him, but saying he is a marketing genius is taking it a little far. He's still a small time builder no matter how you paint it.



No, I apologize if I did come across as overly confrontational. I've always thought people are using genius as a slightly hyperbolic way of saying he has smartly managed his brand to be something where he is both profitable and able too act as an artist. It seems we actually agree, I wasn't trying to say Doug is a Warren Buffet.

I'd also kill for a snake wood neck. Any idea on how they feel? It looks really rightly grained.


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## Vicious7 (Aug 27, 2012)

faceforward_007 said:


> You're too picky, pissed on or not, i'd buy them. Urine is sterile you know.
> 
> 15K... steal of a deal!


 
Only the stuff after the first second or so of the starting stream. Any guy worth his salt in knowledge of golden showers knows that....

Honestly, I can't wait to see some build progress threads and eventual NGD's.  To future owners, be sure to add where you live so me and some of the other like minded SS dwellers can....pay a visit...


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## _MonSTeR_ (Aug 27, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> I'd also kill for a snake wood neck. Any idea on how they feel? It looks really rightly grained.


 

The Blackmachine I've played with a snakewood neck was very slinky, but no more so than an nice EBMM or a J-Custom Ibanez and so on.


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## Opion (Aug 27, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> I disagree. Look at this thread. There as a mystery surrounding the brand that people are willing to argue about.
> 
> What's the best guitar? Blackmachine. Have you played one? No.
> 
> Not many brands have the loyalty of people who don't own anything they've made.




This, this, this. 


There is definitely a mystique when it comes to high-end custom guitars. Honestly I think this is Doug's way of staying relevant to the exotic-guitar aficionados that cultivate on this forum and others alike. A lot of people like me only heard of BM when they saw Misha post about his first B2 years ago - I've only seen 2 in person, but gawd were they pretty.

Can't wait for the NGD threads in 10 years!


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## MF_Kitten (Aug 27, 2012)

faceforward_007 said:


> You're too picky, pissed on or not, i'd buy them. Urine is sterile you know.
> 
> 15K... steal of a deal!



urine is only sterile before it leaves the body. Soon after leaving the body it becomes filthy as fuck.

The more you know.


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## Fred the Shred (Aug 28, 2012)

It's irrelevant, as I just wank on the guitars for that satin finish anyway.


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## explosivo (Aug 28, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> It's irrelevant, as I just wank on the guitars for that satin finish anyway.


Fun lutherie factoid: semen and wood dust has been used as grain filler in the past


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 28, 2012)

Well I was about to email you about an order Aaron but if thats what you're using....


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## Fiction (Aug 28, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Well I was about to email you about an order Aaron but if thats what you're using....



It's a collaboration


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## _MonSTeR_ (Aug 28, 2012)

Opion said:


> This, this, this.
> 
> 
> There is definitely a mystique when it comes to high-end custom guitars. Honestly I think this is Doug's way of staying relevant to the exotic-guitar aficionados that cultivate on this forum and others alike. A lot of people like me only heard of BM when they saw Misha post about his first B2 years ago - I've only seen 2 in person, but gawd were they pretty.
> ...



But, that says more about the members on this forum rather than the guitars themselves. As I said earlier, there are other forums that have their own legendary brands, head over TGP and it's "Blackmawhat? Hey try this Thorn it's the best custom guitar money can buy..."


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## HighGain510 (Aug 28, 2012)

_MonSTeR_ said:


> But, that says more about the members on this forum rather than the guitars themselves. As I said earlier, there are other forums that have their own legendary brands, head over TGP and it's "Blackmawhat? Hey try this Thorn it's the best custom guitar money can buy..."



Yeah except the difference there (and I'm only picking on you since you singled out Thorn as your example, fair warning) is that there are literally HUNDREDS of Thorns out in the wild belonging to owners all over the world, so the people who are boasting about how great their guitars are HAVE played them and you can actually buy them new without dropping $6K+ and waiting forever to become one of the BlackMachine Anointed Chosen Ones (TM).  That's like an apples to unobtanium fruit comparison.  

Also that being said, I've played two Blackmachines and I've owned over a half dozen Thorns. The Thorn IS the best custom guitar money can buy, IMO. As I said previously, I've played two very different examples of Doug's work, and I did not rush out and start emailing him daily begging him to build me a guitar, nor did I bother emailing him when the 2013 list opened up.  It's not like I'm jealous of the BM owners nor is it due to not being able to afford one, believe me I could if I actually wanted one, I'm just saying BM is NOT the be-all, end-all custom shop that some folks make it out to be (many of whom have never even played one). At the same time, neither is Thorn for some folks, different strokes and all that. The guys on TGP who talk about Thorns being awesome are more than likely doing so because they have actually played them or own one currently, not blind fanboyism based on nothing but viewing pictures on a forum and someone telling them the guitar is the best guitar ever.


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## hairychris (Aug 28, 2012)

Danukenator said:


> I'd also kill for a snake wood neck. Any idea on how they feel? It looks really rightly grained.



I have one of the 2 solid snakey B2s from a few years ago. Grain is ridiculously tight, almost stone-like in feel, unlike anything else that I've tried. A bit weird but really nice to play.


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## HighGain510 (Aug 28, 2012)

hairychris said:


> I have one of the 2 solid snakey B2s from a few years ago. Grain is ridiculously tight, almost stone-like in feel, unlike anything else that I've tried. A bit weird but really nice to play.



I'd still love to try one with a snakewood neck. I'm pretty sure Ron has refused to use it anymore because it was such a pain in the ass the last time he did.


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## hairychris (Aug 28, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> I'd still love to try one with a snakewood neck. I'm pretty sure Ron has refused to use it anymore because it was such a pain in the ass the last time he did.



Hah, exactly the same as Doug. He built 2 just to prove a point (plus several with the fillets, but they need smaller pieces so are a bit easier to work...) and he loathed doing it. He told me that snakewood fucks up your tools, splinters are like fibreglass & get under the skin, and the wood itself is a bitch because you never know when it's going to split in a way that you don't want it to.

If anyone has managed to talk him into doing this again their wallet will _really_ hurt as a result.


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## HighGain510 (Aug 28, 2012)

hairychris said:


> Hah, exactly the same as Doug. He built 2 just to prove a point (plus several with the fillets, but they need smaller pieces so are a bit easier to work...) and he loathed doing it. He told me that snakewood fucks up your tools, splinters are like fibreglass & get under the skin, and the wood itself is a bitch because you never know when it's going to split in a way that you don't want it to.
> 
> If anyone has managed to talk him into doing this again their wallet will _really_ hurt as a result.



Haha yeah no shit!  I too had heard that from Ron, between the dust and the splintering of the wood, it's just not worth the headache of working (or attempting to work, I guess ) with it. 

Found one of the guitars, had a snakewood fretboard and headstock cap:

Oscar

I remember him saying it was a bitch to work with, especially having to route for the inlays and purfling channels...


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## hairychris (Aug 28, 2012)

Mine is here: Solid snakewood neck - back | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Shitty photos, it's lighter in real life.

Much less ornate with the routing as only bound, but the shaping of the neck apparently took ages... Fretboard is compound radius too which wasn't a quick process either!


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## HighGain510 (Aug 28, 2012)

That thing looks tasty!  Solid snakewood neck too? Yikes!  And you say Doug DOESN'T hate you?


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## Lagtastic (Aug 28, 2012)

Same here as some other folks. I emailed him about 20 minutes after this thread popped up, no reply. Ah well maybe he'll do another run in a year or two.


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## hairychris (Aug 28, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> That thing looks tasty!  Solid snakewood neck too? Yikes!  And you say Doug DOESN'T hate you?



No, I didn't order it. The chap who did ran into financial difficulties about 6 weeks after he received it and I was the only person who bid on it on ebay...  I phone Doug up to let him know that I'd snagged it and he was like "WTF, but glad that's it's still in the family" 

Neck is solid, but not one piece. Headstock is glued on as per Jacksons, etc, to get the break angle.

Note: Just to explain the family comment, I used to rehearse in the same studio as Doug, what, 10 years back, so knew a him a bit already. He'd promised to build me the most metal guitar ever but I spent the cash on the snakewood instead!


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## themike (Aug 28, 2012)

hairychris said:


> No, I didn't order it. The chap who did ran into financial difficulties about 6 weeks after he received it and I was the only person who bid on it on ebay...  I phone Doug up to let him know that I'd snagged it and he was like "WTF, but glad that's it's still in the family"
> 
> Neck is solid, but not one piece. Headstock is glued on as per Jacksons, etc, to get the break angle.
> 
> Note: Just to explain the family comment, I used to rehearse in the same studio as Doug, what, 10 years back, so knew a him a bit already. He'd promised to build me the most metal guitar ever but I spent the cash on the snakewood instead!


 

Ok so here's how this is going to work. You are going to call up Doug and request that he build that guitar he said he'd build for you. Then, you will walk to the corner of 5th and Main St - look into the trash can - and remove the brown paper bag. It will be filled with a large amount of untracable bills. Do it.


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## hairychris (Aug 28, 2012)

th3m1ke said:


> Ok so here's how this is going to work. You are going to call up Doug and request that he build that guitar he said he'd build for you. Then, you will walk to the corner of 5th and Main St - look into the trash can - and remove the brown paper bag. It will be filled with a large amount of untracable bills. Do it.



Nah, I already called that one in (my B7). The delay was... lengthy, although I did get a significant mate's rates deal on it so I'm not complaining. Still wasn't cheap though!


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## themike (Aug 28, 2012)

hairychris said:


> Nah, I already called that one in (my B7). The delay was... lengthy, although I did get a significant mate's rates deal on it so I'm not complaining. Still wasn't cheap though!


 
I dont think you understand exactly how LARGE the brown paper bag will be


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## hairychris (Aug 28, 2012)

th3m1ke said:


> I dont think you understand exactly how LARGE the brown paper bag will be


Haha, main problem being that the conversation is useless anyway. As my name isn't on the list shit ain't going to happen...


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## Maniacal (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks to the OP. If it wasn't for this thread I would have never known about the next orders.


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## Xaios (Aug 28, 2012)

Curious, has Doug ever made a guitar with Lacewood? I ask because a) you hardly ever see it, and b) when done right, it can look pretty freaking awesome.


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## MetalDaze (Aug 28, 2012)

explosivo said:


> Fun lutherie factoid: semen and wood dust has been used as grain filler in the past


 


Not sure I would admit that on the same forum that I'm trying to sell guitars on


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## explosivo (Aug 28, 2012)

MetalDaze said:


> Not sure I would admit that on the same forum that I'm trying to sell guitars on


I probably should have ended that with ", but not by me" 

Note: I have *never *rubbed my semen (nor someone elses semen) on any of my instruments!


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## Syriel (Aug 29, 2012)

Maniacal said:


> Thanks to the OP. If it wasn't for this thread I would have never known about the next orders.



No problem man. I'll be awaiting you rich and lucky people to start posting your NGD's. 

I hope he's still taking orders by the time I'm rich and good enough to own one.


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## Blackheim (Aug 29, 2012)

HighGain510 said:


> Yeah except the difference there (and I'm only picking on you since you singled out Thorn as your example, fair warning) is that there are literally HUNDREDS of Thorns out in the wild belonging to owners all over the world, so the people who are boasting about how great their guitars are HAVE played them and you can actually buy them new without dropping $6K+ and waiting forever to become one of the BlackMachine Anointed Chosen Ones (TM).  That's like an apples to unobtanium fruit comparison.
> 
> Also that being said, I've played two Blackmachines and I've owned over a half dozen Thorns. The Thorn IS the best custom guitar money can buy, IMO. As I said previously, I've played two very different examples of Doug's work, and I did not rush out and start emailing him daily begging him to build me a guitar, nor did I bother emailing him when the 2013 list opened up.  It's not like I'm jealous of the BM owners nor is it due to not being able to afford one, believe me I could if I actually wanted one, I'm just saying BM is NOT the be-all, end-all custom shop that some folks make it out to be (many of whom have never even played one). At the same time, neither is Thorn for some folks, different strokes and all that. The guys on TGP who talk about Thorns being awesome are more than likely doing so because they have actually played them or own one currently, not blind fanboyism based on nothing but viewing pictures on a forum and someone telling them the guitar is the best guitar ever.



This!! I played an Artisan Master back in 2009 and I was totally blown away!! Actually, I wanted one at that time but didn't have the money!


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## troyguitar (Aug 29, 2012)

I was going to order one of these, but went with an Agile instead.


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## Vicious7 (Sep 2, 2012)

^ 

Anybody want to steal the guitars of the people who got on the build list with me?


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## squid-boy (Sep 4, 2012)

Down payment on a house or a Blackmachine. Tough decision.


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## Vicious7 (Sep 10, 2012)

I'm sure Doug is so aweome, you could probably still live in a BlackMachine.


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## PureImagination (Sep 12, 2012)

Damn it. l had a dream l got one last night... Nope, guess not...


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## hairychris (Sep 13, 2012)

Vicious7 said:


> I'm sure Doug is so aweome, you could probably still live in a BlackMachine.


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## Fiction (Sep 13, 2012)

hairychris said:


>



He's making a joke 



squid-boy said:


> Down payment on a house or a Blackmachine. Tough decision.





Vicious7 said:


> I'm sure Doug is so aweome, you could probably still live in a BlackMachine.


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## engage757 (Sep 14, 2012)

Syriel said:


> Filled up already? lol.
> 
> It probably would've gone unnoticed if I ( or someone else if I didn't ) didn't post it on the board, seeing as nearly all spots are by SS.org members.




I was talking to him already also.


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## hairychris (Sep 14, 2012)

Fiction said:


> He's making a joke



I was trying to parse the sentence but failed!


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## SkullCrusher (Sep 16, 2012)

IMO theyre just hype.

Saying tho Ive never played one.


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