# To all bands using Windows based laptops live...



## BenSolace (Feb 18, 2013)

How do you find it? What specs do you have (or think you need). I'm currently eyeing up a Lenovo U410 with i5 and SSD (to upgrade to) but everyone seems to use Macs. In fact, I'm struggling to find a band that used Windows laptops live at all!

I have a MBP, but I don't relish the thought of taking a £1,500 laptop to bar/club gigs when I could take a £600 one.

Do you have to sacrifice casual use in order to set it up for optimum stability i.e. removing all non-essential programs, internet connectivity etc. That's what I'm looking to do.


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## WhiteWalls (Feb 18, 2013)

I think I can help you as I've used exclusively a laptop as my live rig for almost 2 years (I use it as a guitar processor, but in the band I play bass in, my drummer uses it as click track + backing track, which I assume is the way you want to use it too)



terrible1 said:


> What specs do you have (or think you need). I'm currently eyeing up a Lenovo U410 with i5 and SSD (to upgrade to) but everyone seems to use Macs. In fact, I'm struggling to find a band that used Windows laptops live at all!


It does not need to be very powerful at all, an i5 is way more than enough. My answer to the second part of your question would end up as a huge rant that would probably get me banned, so let's just say that I think macs are a bit overrated 



terrible1 said:


> Do you have to sacrifice casual use in order to set it up for optimum stability i.e. removing all non-essential programs, internet connectivity etc. That's what I'm looking to do.


NO, you don't have to sacrifice anything. I use my laptop for work, university, games and everything else.
The things you need to do are:
1) MANUALLY DISABLE the wireless card before you play (in control panel/device manager/right click-disable)
2) check the task manager regularly, to ensure that there are no processes in the background which take huge chunks of memory and cpu
3) disable the energy saving, always make sure it runs at 100% power even when on battery and disable the standby/hibernation stuff

If you only use it for click tracks, that's should already be more than enough. If you plan to use it for more complicated real-time shenanigans like I do, there are a couple more details to take care of but that's already 99% done, considering you also have an SSD


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## BenSolace (Feb 18, 2013)

WhiteWalls said:


> I think I can help you as I've used exclusively a laptop as my live rig for almost 2 years (I use it as a guitar processor, but in the band I play bass in, my drummer uses it as click track + backing track, which I assume is the way you want to use it too)
> 
> 
> It does not need to be very powerful at all, an i5 is way more than enough. My answer to the second part of your question would end up as a huge rant that would probably get me banned, so let's just say that I think macs are a bit overrated
> ...



Thanks for that! I am planning on having stereo backing tracks and a click sent out of a Motu 828 Mk3 (which also acts as a brilliant standalone, multi mix IEM mixer), and also MIDI patch changes to control the band's Axe FX/Pod XT Pro. I would also like to simultaneously record live sets, as every instrument/vocal is plugged into the Motu for monitoring, and our drummer triggers his kit through an Alesis DM5 for samples/MIDI interface. I would be running no VSTs/plugins at all, and am getting the laptop purely for live use in this way, so I can ensure it's optimised for this use only


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## BenSolace (Feb 20, 2013)

Anyone else? It would appear that there are even less people using Windows laptops live than I thought!


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## metal_sam14 (Feb 20, 2013)

I grabbed an old dual core laptop from work, threw an SSD and windows 7 on there and it hasn't failed me. I run a Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface, and all of my in ear monitoring is processed on the laptop and again it has never failed. 

If you want to chat more about it, shoot me a PM, I am happy to fill you in on how I set it up


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## BenSolace (Feb 20, 2013)

metal_sam14 said:


> I grabbed an old dual core laptop from work, threw an SSD and windows 7 on there and it hasn't failed me. I run a Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface, and all of my in ear monitoring is processed on the laptop and again it has never failed.
> 
> If you want to chat more about it, shoot me a PM, I am happy to fill you in on how I set it up



Thanks for that man. I definitely know what I'm doing when setting it up, had it all figured out a while ago! My only concern is that the OS/laptop itself would not be able to hold up to the rigors of the road.

I've just bought the Lenovo U410 that I mentioned above, and while Windows 8 64 bit seems REALLY zippy with an SSD and 4bg RAM (and I have removed literally everything except for the DAW and Cuemix FX for the Motu), the laptop build seems not as solid/bombproof as my 15" MBP. But then, for less that half the price (and that was a major concern in taking a MBP on the road) I guess I should expect that. It's gonna be permanently rack mounted anyway, so maybe I'm just being overly judgemental/paranoid! 

I guess I just needed some sort of reassurance that I dont *have* to take a £1,500 MBP on the road to do the stuff I can easily get from a £600 computer. The general opinion is that Macs are the only way to go, but it seems that those who have decided to "buck the trend" so to speak have had positive results. After all, it's not like there aren't horror stories of Macs crashing mid-set


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## WhiteWalls (Feb 20, 2013)

terrible1 said:


> The general opinion is that Macs are the only way to go, but it seems that those who have decided to "buck the trend" so to speak have had positive results. After all, it's not like there aren't horror stories of Macs crashing mid-set



The "windows fails, mac doesn't" thing is obviously bullshit, in fact I trust windows a lot more because there are more things you can do to optimize it and prevent it from crashing. I guess it's part of Apple's marketing strategy to advertise their products as more reliable when they really aren't, if you know what you're doing.

I should also add that the need for an SSD depends entirely on the brand/model. My HP Pavilion is built like a tank and its mechanical drive never ever failed even under stress conditions, while my older laptop blew up at the most faint vibration


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## devolutionary (Feb 20, 2013)

If in doubt and you don't want to use Mac, at least give a Linux boot a try. If nothing else you'll find something that doesn't treat you like an idiot and has loads of free software you are familiar with, and you don't have to buy new hardware. It gives you an option should you experience problems with Windows while playing that is software based, not hardware.


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## metal_sam14 (Feb 20, 2013)

Macs are not the only way to go. End of story, the whole mac trend baffles me a bit. 

Windows laptop + SSD = solid, stable reliability and this is coming from extensive testing on my part. 

Sure apple have programs like mainstage, but realistically if you are only using an interface and spurting out some backing tracks, get a cheap windows laptop and an SSD, more money in your pocket for the same kind of functionality


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## BenSolace (Feb 21, 2013)

metal_sam14 said:


> Macs are not the only way to go. End of story, the whole mac trend baffles me a bit.
> 
> Windows laptop + SSD = solid, stable reliability and this is coming from extensive testing on my part.
> 
> Sure apple have programs like mainstage, but realistically if you are only using an interface and spurting out some backing tracks, get a cheap windows laptop and an SSD, more money in your pocket for the same kind of functionality



All I'm going to be doing is automating MIDI patch changes, playing a click/backing track, all whilst (sometimes) simultaneously recording the band on the individual inputs of the Motu. Also looking to record a triggered kit via MIDI. None of that seems like it would be particularly taxing, and the laptop I went for has a 1.7 i5 dual core with SSD and 4gb of RAM which I can up if I like. Should be fine


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## JPhoenix19 (Feb 21, 2013)

I've exclusively used a windows laptop with Guitar Rig as my main guitar and bass rig for a few years. I never really got into using backing tracks and whatnot simply because I'm not in a band (it's just been playing at church). I've never had a problem that wasn't my own fault (poor configuration). My Rig Kontroll 3 is starting to go out, but I bought it used and didn't treat it as well as I should have so it's no surprise.

Anyway, I was surprised at how little I actually needed in order to run GR live. I picked up an old Lenovo G series with a dual core Pentium processor, and although I had to disable some hardware and services, it's capable of running it at just under 8 Ms total latency.

Oh, and about Linux: if you've not had previous experience with Linux I'd recommend sticking with windows. It's like a whole different world in regard to figuring out the audio processing, and although there is a great deal of free software the audio processing software isn't quite up to par with what you can get for windows. That's been my experience, at least. It took me a good chunk of time and effort just to learn the basics myself, and I determined for my situation it wasn't worth the time.


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## BenSolace (Feb 25, 2013)

Well I tried it out this weekend at a show, recorded my bands whole set via the USB connection on my Motu 828 Mk3 (everything except the drums, although the vocal mic picked up enough of the sound!).

Not a single glitch, and this was without the SSD installed - booted up and shut down perfectly. Good stuff!


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## loktide (Feb 25, 2013)

there's no reason a mac should be more reliable than a (properly set up) windows pc

i'm a mac user myself, so this is as unbiased as it gets


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## BenSolace (Feb 25, 2013)

loktide said:


> there's no reason a mac should be more reliable than a (properly set up) windows pc
> 
> i'm a mac user myself, so this is as unbiased as it gets



Seems to be the case. I'm primarily a Mac user (iMac and MBP for recording) but didn't want to run the risk of needing to replace a £1,500 laptop whilst out on the road. Not to mention I bought my Apple gear before I got a mortgage, so it's not like I could afford another one nowadays!


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## BenSolace (Mar 11, 2013)

Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd try and get an answer here first.

The laptop I have uses a small SSD to run the OS, and a regular HDD for everything else. To save removing all the storage space the HDD offers by ripping it out and installing an SSD (which would have MUCH less space and a finite lifespan), could I not use the SD card slot and run the projects off of an SD card?

I can't see a reason why not, as the SD card is flash based and the OS is on a small SSD, so that's everything essential running on solid state!


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## metal_sam14 (Mar 12, 2013)

BenHughesDS said:


> Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd try and get an answer here first.
> 
> The laptop I have uses a small SSD to run the OS, and a regular HDD for everything else. To save removing all the storage space the HDD offers by ripping it out and installing an SSD (which would have MUCH less space and a finite lifespan), could I not use the SD card slot and run the projects off of an SD card?
> 
> I can't see a reason why not, as the SD card is flash based and the OS is on a small SSD, so that's everything essential running on solid state!



This would work, however I would recommend getting a class-10 SD card just to make sure you are getting the best read/write speed possible


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## BenSolace (Mar 12, 2013)

metal_sam14 said:


> This would work, however I would recommend getting a class-10 SD card just to make sure you are getting the best read/write speed possible



Excellent, thanks man  Had a feeling this would be OK. Probably going to get one of those Class 10 SanDisk ones


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## BenSolace (Mar 13, 2013)

Just to close this thread off, I noticed in the Meshuggah rig rundown video posted in another thread that they are using Windows laptops live for the MIDI control (and presumably backing tracks too). Case closed!


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## ghostred7 (Mar 13, 2013)

loktide said:


> there's no reason a mac should be more reliable than a (properly set up) windows pc
> 
> i'm a mac user myself, so this is as unbiased as it gets


I hate to say it as a Mac and UNIX user....but Windows PC has definitely closed the gap. I don't like Win8 and would never use it, but have had little to no problems with Win7 x64 and recommend that to most people. Hell, I've even switched to Win7 x64 for my primary video editing running the Adobe Master Collection.

There are some good tweaks i've seen for maximum performance, but it depends on what else you're going to use the machine for (if anything). 

I got this link from the Cakewalk forum in a discussion about optimizing PC for use w/ Sonar X1. Pretty sure it's advantageous for any DAW/performance.

Black Viper&#8217;s Windows 7 Super Tweaks | Black Viper | www.blackviper.com

Not sure how applicable it is to Win8.


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## BenSolace (Mar 13, 2013)

ghostred7 said:


> I hate to say it as a Mac and UNIX user....but Windows PC has definitely closed the gap. I don't like Win8 and would never use it, but have had little to no problems with Win7 x64 and recommend that to most people. Hell, I've even switched to Win7 x64 for my primary video editing running the Adobe Master Collection.
> 
> There are some good tweaks i've seen for maximum performance, but it depends on what else you're going to use the machine for (if anything).
> 
> ...



I bought my laptop new and promptly uninstalled everything except for the OS, Reaper and CueMix FX. It's running Windows 8, but I cant see any non-aesthetic differences between it and 7 if you disregard the metro screen. I actually find the metro screen quite useful, as soon as the laptop loads up my only menu options are CueMix, Reaper and the storage folders for the projects!


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## ghostred7 (Mar 13, 2013)

BenHughesDS said:


> I bought my laptop new and promptly uninstalled everything except for the OS, Reaper and CueMix FX. It's running Windows 8, but I cant see any non-aesthetic differences between it and 7 if you disregard the metro screen. I actually find the metro screen quite useful, as soon as the laptop loads up my only menu options are CueMix, Reaper and the storage folders for the projects!


Cool...don't know anything about the Win8 interface/OS. If it's built on the Win7 core, then should be fairly stable and able to handle what you want to do with no issue. I have heard that Lenovo hardware can be flaky with internal connections but don't know how much legitimacy that has.


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## BenSolace (Mar 13, 2013)

ghostred7 said:


> Cool...don't know anything about the Win8 interface/OS. If it's built on the Win7 core, then should be fairly stable and able to handle what you want to do with no issue. I have heard that Lenovo hardware can be flaky with internal connections but don't know how much legitimacy that has.



I was always advised that Lenovo were one of the better non-Apple laptops, in both build and reliability.


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## ghostred7 (Mar 13, 2013)

BenHughesDS said:


> I was always advised that Lenovo were one of the better non-Apple laptops, in both build and reliability.


May be true...honestly don't know. Is why I said didn't know the legitimacy of it.


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## Sam MJ (Mar 13, 2013)

Another thing you might want to consider is turning off all the graphics settings, it'll make it look like windows 95 but it'll free up a fair chunk of memory .


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## Seanthesheep (Mar 17, 2013)

WhiteWalls said:


> The "windows fails, mac doesn't" thing is obviously bullshit, in fact I trust windows a lot more because there are more things you can do to optimize it and prevent it from crashing. I guess it's part of Apple's marketing strategy to advertise their products as more reliable when they really aren't, if you know what you're doing.
> 
> I should also add that the need for an SSD depends entirely on the brand/model. My HP Pavilion is built like a tank and its mechanical drive never ever failed even under stress conditions, while my older laptop blew up at the most faint vibration





my previous laptop was a relatively high end HP. the SSD died on me 3 times for no reason, so I bought a macbook pro with a normal HDD and its been way more stable


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## Pezshreds (May 21, 2013)

Seanthesheep said:


> my previous laptop was a relatively high end HP. the SSD died on me 3 times for no reason, so I bought a macbook pro with a normal HDD and its been way more stable


 
Thats not windows vs mac, that's the hard drive brands vs each other.
I've had a 500gb hard drive with regular use for the past 6 years, but have had 2 others die on me and one ssd die on me. I was running windows the whole time, but would've had the exact same result had these hard drives been running via a mac


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## drmosh (May 21, 2013)

ghostred7 said:


> Cool...don't know anything about the Win8 interface/OS. If it's built on the Win7 core, then should be fairly stable and able to handle what you want to do with no issue. I have heard that Lenovo hardware can be flaky with internal connections but don't know how much legitimacy that has.



"Don't know anything about win 8" but "would never use it". This mindset baffles me.


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## wookie606 (May 21, 2013)

drmosh said:


> "Don't know anything about win 8" but "would never use it". This mindset baffles me.



This.
Although personally I have tried windows 8 and could not get my head around it. The UI is so different that it takes more effort to do normal things that matter to me.

<EDIT>
I guess its no different to me switching to a mac, I would have no clue what to do.


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## drmosh (May 21, 2013)

wookie606 said:


> This.
> Although personally I have tried windows 8 and could not get my head around it. The UI is so different that it takes more effort to do normal things that matter to me.



That's just the metro UI. Win 8 is totally disjointed in its use of two entirely different UIs. The metro stuff is, IMO, only useful for touch screen stuff. But win8 can in essence be used in exactly the same manner as win7


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## ferret (May 21, 2013)

drmosh said:


> That's just the metro UI. Win 8 is totally disjointed in its use of two entirely different UIs. The metro stuff is, IMO, only useful for touch screen stuff. But win8 can in essence be used in exactly the same manner as win7



This, so much this. Win8 has a lot of little minor behind the scenes improvements over Win7, and I advise you to upgrade, or wait for Win8.1 later this year if you want to get some of the upcoming improvements and tweaks.

Win8 IS better than Win7. If you don't like the Metro (Well, Modern is it's name now) interface, then simply don't use it. Click straight to your desktop and use icons and pinned programs just like you always did.


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## ghostred7 (May 21, 2013)

drmosh said:


> "Don't know anything about win 8" but "would never use it". This mindset baffles me.



It's Windows, which seeing how after years I finally found one that I tolerate (Win7 x64) I have no desire to use Win8. Not sure why this mindset baffles you. Pretty simple...I don't like Windows in general. I tried Win8 on my kids' machine @ their Mom's house and hated it.


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## WhiteWalls (May 21, 2013)

Audio is all about reliability so I'm a little hesitant to use Windows 8 right now. Back when windows 7 was just released it was completely unusable for audio use (at least in my experience) and I stuck with XP for a very long time before upgrading.

It may be true that Windows 8 is very good but there's not a lot of incentive to move away from Windows 7 either.


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## DarkWolfXV (May 21, 2013)

I dont have problem with Win 8 at all... Got the interface in two hours and im fine using both standard one and metro UI. You just need spend more than 5 minutes to get it.


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## guy in latvia (May 22, 2013)

Just would like to point out one thing, when buying a laptop to use live, I would highly recommend getting a business class laptop. Meaning, something sturdy and less prone to overheating. The overheating part is my biggest concern with most laptops, I'm still shocked that manufacturers choose to put the heatsink/fan on the bottom of the laptop where there is next to no airflow. In a hot sweaty venue, this will be death to any poorly designed laptop.

Also, removing the battery and running it only on power often reduces the random chance of glitching.


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## ShiftKey (May 22, 2013)

Lenovo is pretty much a business use brand, It the IBM think pad line which was separated from the company and re branded Lenovo (same people behind the designs just a different name), And thinkpads were pretty bullet proof, tho im still waiting for a Panasonic toughbook to hit the market with a intel i cpu.

I tried windows 8 back in the beta days a few years ago, hated it soo hard, and havent had a single problem with 7, i see no reason to change OS for the sake of it, hell i was still using win98se in 2001


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## drmosh (May 22, 2013)

ghostred7 said:


> It's Windows, which seeing how after years I finally found one that I tolerate (Win7 x64) I have no desire to use Win8. Not sure why this mindset baffles you. Pretty simple...I don't like Windows in general. I tried Win8 on my kids' machine @ their Mom's house and hated it.



It baffles me that someone would dismiss something without having tried it. In having tried it you would have discovered that it's in essence exactly the same as windows 7. Personal preference neither here nor there.


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## BenSolace (May 28, 2013)

OK, so the Windows laptop that I have been using has suddenly started crashing mid-set... complete OS lockup, have to hold the power button to get anything to happen. Luckily we managed to finish the set due to the laptop's impressive startup speed, but it froze again at the end of the last song... not good! 

I haven't been able to get to the bottom of why it has been doing this, but I just thought I'd cut the crap and used my MacBook Pro instead with great results! It's in a lockable rack drawer, so theft is not as much a concern as it was before.

Maybe it's the OS, maybe it's the fact that the Lenovo was built nowhere near as solid as the MBP, but I'm starting to realise why you mostly see Apple laptops running live shows. Either that or I'm just really unlucky, as my Axe FX Ultra died on me a week before a festival gig too


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## ferret (May 28, 2013)

I'd go with unlucky, or perhaps a heat issue with that hardware. You said it's locked in a drawer?


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## WhiteWalls (May 28, 2013)

Complete OS lockup = the hard drive failed (vibrations, heating)


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## BenSolace (May 28, 2013)

Thanks for the input guys. I cannot see how either of these caused the problem, seeing as not only does the OS run on a small SSD soldered to the motherboard, but I was running the projects off of an SD card (also solid state). When I had to reboot, I ran the projects off the hard drive in case the SD card was the problem. Apparently not...

The freeze happened at my home before the shows also, in completely normal temperatures/no vibrations. I just shrugged it off thinking it was a glitch. The laptop is only transported in the locked drawer (to quell my paranoia that someone would just pick up a laptop case and leg it!) which is vented anyway.

I just dont get it... it worked fine for about 2-3 months, then blam - failure after failure


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## WhiteWalls (May 28, 2013)

Is the laptop you're using completely dedicated to live audio or do you use it for other things as well?


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## BenSolace (May 28, 2013)

WhiteWalls said:


> Is the laptop you're using completely dedicated to live audio or do you use it for other things as well?



Completely dedicated to live use. Removed all bloatware and unused programs, optimised settings as best possible (but did not dig too deep so as to indadvertedly wreck the OS!), completely disabled all internet access and update checking etc.


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## ThallSoHard (May 28, 2013)

I've used 3 different laptops for my band's shows (we usually trade off who has to bring theirs for what show) - all Windows 7. Two were fairly high end (i5 and i7, 8+ GB of ram, etc.) and the other was a lower end Toshiba laptop (I think i3?) No SSD's which has always worried me, but its never really been a problem. The only thing I ever do is turn off the wireless and I make a custom power plan to never dim the display/sleep/all that other crap. 

The ONLY time I've ever had a problem with a laptop was when I wasn't running it with the charger plugged in and it shut off before the last song of the set. I'm not entirely sure what happened as the battery wasn't that low when I got back home and booted it up, but since that event, I always make sure there is a charger hooked up. I have an old duo core laptop I loaned to my brother that I should be getting back soon. Once I get that back, I'm probably gonna put a small SSD in there and run everything off it live so I'm not so worried about bringing the nice laptops into venues anymore haha


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## guy in latvia (May 29, 2013)

Complete OS lockup definitely sounds like a hardware problem, could be motherboard failure. Previously I had a POS Acer laptop and just kept crashing at random, it was because the motherboard was damaged. 

Also, like I said before might want to try tunning it with the battery physically disconnected, some of the "planned obsolescence" with laptops includes battery failure (number of charges) which tend to catastrophically affect any performance, including but not limited to, crashing, shutting down at 50-100% battery power remaining, freezes, etc.


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## BenSolace (May 30, 2013)

guy in latvia said:


> Complete OS lockup definitely sounds like a hardware problem, could be motherboard failure. Previously I had a POS Acer laptop and just kept crashing at random, it was because the motherboard was damaged.
> 
> Also, like I said before might want to try tunning it with the battery physically disconnected, some of the "planned obsolescence" with laptops includes battery failure (number of charges) which tend to catastrophically affect any performance, including but not limited to, crashing, shutting down at 50-100% battery power remaining, freezes, etc.



Thanks for the input. The laptop is around 2 months old, bought from new, and has only been used for a handful of gigs. If the above mentioned problems are the cause, I would be very disappointed with the laptop. It's not like it's a little cheap netbook with an Atom processor!


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## WhiteWalls (May 30, 2013)

Yeah you've just been very unlucky it seems. I would still try the battery/power tests before declaring it dead (also, I prefer to use my laptop on battery, because most venues have pretty sketchy power and I don't want any of it)


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## BenSolace (May 30, 2013)

WhiteWalls said:


> Yeah you've just been very unlucky it seems. I would still try the battery/power tests before declaring it dead (also, I prefer to use my laptop on battery, because most venues have pretty sketchy power and I don't want any of it)



I know it doesn't count for much, but it was running off my power conditioner.

If you knew how much £££'s worth of gear has gone belly up on me in the past few weeks, I think you'd think me more than "very unlucky"  First my Axe FX, then this laptop, a few weeks ago my wireless started dropping out randomly, and just the other day one of my audio interfaces started playing up. I just really give up sometimes...


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## Idontpersonally (May 30, 2013)

My whole shit just crashed, had to get a new os, go through all this registration bs for my software and i lost half the album i was working on. Im very angry but thank god i play metal and that genre sure as hell aint about giving up.


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## BenSolace (May 30, 2013)

Idontpersonally said:


> My whole shit just crashed, had to get a new os, go through all this registration bs for my software and i lost half the album i was working on. Im very angry but thank god i play metal and that genre sure as hell aint about giving up.



Very Wintersun


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