# Rings of saturn's lucas mann's guitar ability described by recentlydeparted guitarist



## brutalwizard (Dec 18, 2014)

> So there's been quite a bit of vagueness to the real reason why I quit Rings of Saturn and It's been eating away at me keeping it to myself so here it goes. The deciding factor in me leaving the band was Lucas. I had enough of biting my tongue and going along for the ride. When I first joined the band we got along great and had the same common goals as musicians but that changed more and more over the years. To summarize he simply doesn't care about playing guitar or being a musician anymore. Word for word he told me "I don't give a shit about playing guitar or getting better at guitar, I just want to write music and get the band as big as possible in the shortest amount of time." So with that kind of attitude it hindered the band from playing any of the new songs from Lugal Ki En that we were suppose to be playing live for the last 6 months. Ian, Aaron, and myself were all capable of playing the new songs we prepared for the set but we had to make up excuses such as "the label won't let us play songs until the music video is out or we didn't have time to practice as a band so we aren't playing any songs on the album release tour." And his reason for not learning the songs was that he was too busy managing the band. I was also told to get off his back for it since he "Does more in life in general than I do." All in all what it comes down to is Lucas Mann is a hack of a musician and I will never work with him ever again. He stresses the band into recording songs note by note, releases them, doesn't learn them and then makes as much money as he can from the merch while sitting in the comfort of his parents' house. On top of that he is a self centered asshole to his band mates and fans which is not acceptable to me in anyway. I admit he is very smart with managing and promoting a band. Maybe he'd do better helping other bands since he doesn't have the desire to play instruments himself. I've learned a lot from being in ROS and met some amazing people but Ive had enough of the bullshit. I'm not going to sacrifice time with my family, my musicianship, or my integrity for some childish wanna be musician. I couldn't be happier with my choice to leave. I now have time with the people I care about and I've regained that burning passion for my instrument. Thanks to all who have supported the band, I'm excited to start releasing albums that are REAL all the way through for the remaining listeners of mine to enjoy. No longer will I stand for someone to record bullshit parts with my music and not even learn it. .... that. -Joel omens



I have always backed up my enjoyment of rings of saturn based on my like for the music and their live performances. So honestly this kinda sucks to hear. I cant say i ever liked lucas mann's persona but never thought the rumours had this much truth to them


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## garey77 (Dec 18, 2014)

I completely agree and have left bands for the same reason. Bs excuses are for the birds.


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## Lorcan Ward (Dec 18, 2014)

> He stresses the band into recording songs note by note, releases them, doesn't learn them



Even though it couldn't be more obvious that they record this way its good to finally hear it straight from someone who was in the band.


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## liamh (Dec 18, 2014)

So he makes shit music, is shit, and also is a prick.


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## Necris (Dec 18, 2014)

He honestly should have kept this to himself. He's out of the band so Lucas Mann is not his problem anymore.

Awaiting the Rings of Saturn vs Joel Omens pissing contest.


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## Blasphemer (Dec 18, 2014)

This whole thing is turning into a big soap opera.

Rings of our Lives
As the World Sweeps
The Young and the Tasteless

I love it.


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## liamh (Dec 18, 2014)

This is still the funniest shit to me. 
I can't understand how anyone could possibly defend this guy as someone who actually plays his instrument after watching this video.
1:26 is so ....ing dumb/hilarious, I laugh every time I see it


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## The Omega Cluster (Dec 18, 2014)

Necris said:


> He honestly should have kept this to himself. He's out of the band so Lucas Mann is not his problem anymore.
> 
> Awaiting the Rings of Saturn vs Joel Omens pissing contest.



Snowden is out of the NSA, so it isn't his problem anymore.


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## TonyGD (Dec 18, 2014)

liamh said:


> This is still the funniest shit to me.
> I can't understand how anyone could possibly defend this guy as someone who actually plays his instrument after watching this video.
> 1:26 is so ....ing dumb/hilarious, I laugh every time I see it




Dude he wanted so much f...in money to fund that project too 

He allows ppl to comment now?ahaha
I remember he would usually disable commenting on like all his guitar playing vids.


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 18, 2014)

Hahaha, hahahahaha. 
wait, 

hahahahahahaha!


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## asher (Dec 18, 2014)

The Omega Cluster said:


> Snowden is out of the NSA, so it isn't his problem anymore.



There's a Grand Canyon of a difference between that situation and what is airing out dirty gossip laundry.


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## TonyGD (Dec 18, 2014)

Necris said:


> He honestly should have kept this to himself. He's out of the band so Lucas Mann is not his problem anymore.
> 
> Awaiting the Rings of Saturn vs Joel Omens pissing contest.



"It's been eating away at me keeping it to myself" 

I mean he left on some bad terms. Joined this band, majority of time spent with his input being silenced or minimized, finally left the band, of course he's gonna have _something_ to say... 

I think I understand what you mean but if something like that happened to you...
You would want others to know about that right?


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## Necris (Dec 18, 2014)

The Omega Cluster said:


> Snowden is out of the NSA, so it isn't his problem anymore.




These two things aren't even remotely similar in terms of scale.

When the revelations about the internal issues of a band who are generally unknown have a similar impact on peoples lives maybe then your comparison will begin to hold water.


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## TonyGD (Dec 18, 2014)

They always have some kind of lineup change. So I'm sure if there's no audition or fill in for a 2nd guitarist maybe they'll just stick with Lucas? 
It's sad to hear because they're based in Nor Cal so I always refer to them as local with a sense of pride. 

I remember getting all stoked when my friend first showed me Embryonic Anomaly in the Myspace days. I knew that they could play live, but live definitely isn't the same of how polished their studio recordings are.
Even though sometimes the comments were disabled on their playthrough videos, clearly they could still play their instruments.

I met this one guy who was in a band on the same label (Unique Leader) and he said his drummer used to be in RoS. He left because ultimately "it was all based on how fast you can play". 
Which isn't really a big surprise in metal, but still kinda spoke to me...
I also understand the rumors about the 1/2 speed recording...and the Guitar Pro.
Some guitars on the album(s) definitely sound too cleanly maneuvered to be real. I still (for the most part) like their music, but that's unfortunate so I hope they change for the better. 
I remember messaging Joel back in 2012 and he said he took the Greyhound from Washington to California to meet up with them...
So I mean that's kinda f'ed up to say "I do more in life in General than you" to someone who goes on a long bus ride just to meet up and play music.


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## asher (Dec 18, 2014)

Someone from my (small) high school in the Bay who was like two years below me is engaged to Lucas. 

She was nice, too...


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Dec 18, 2014)

brutalwizard said:


> I have always backed up my enjoyment of rings of saturn based on my like for the music and their live performances. So honestly this kinda sucks to hear. I cant say i ever liked lucas mann's persona but never thought the rumours had this much truth to them



This is pretty much how I feel. I'm a huge RoS fan and this news doesn't really change how much I enjoy their music but it is disappointing to know that Lucas doesn't really give a shit about being able to play his parts.

As soon as I saw this on MetalSucks I knew SSO would have a field day with it


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 18, 2014)

Here's the link:
Former Rings of Saturn Guitarist Joel Omans: "Lucas Mann is a Hack of a Musician" - MetalSucks

Laughing so hard. Knew it was true.


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## Joose (Dec 18, 2014)

So he confirmed what everyone already assumed/basically knew... and people are saying he should have kept it to himself? Naw. Mann is, indeed, a hack of a musician and that should be known, just as it is known when someone gets caught lip-syncing or anything along those lines.


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## TheHandOfStone (Dec 18, 2014)

Okay cool I guess, going back to Sol 2183 now.


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## Demiurge (Dec 18, 2014)

Wait- I thought that the prevailing excuse-on-their-behalf is that they were trying to sound punched-in and inhuman on purpose, so how is disregard for musicianship in favor of sonics the scandal again?


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## InfestedRabite (Dec 18, 2014)

Demiurge said:


> Wait- I thought that the prevailing excuse-on-their-behalf is that they were trying to sound punched-in and inhuman on purpose, so how is disregard for musicianship in favor of sonics the scandal again?



the whole thing where his inability to perform and over-reliance on studio-wizardry was stopping them from playing the new material live, which probably sucks as a fan if you like the new album (i'd recommend getting your ears checked in that case but w/e)


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## spawnofthesith (Dec 18, 2014)

I thought it was common knowledge that Lucas was a douche 


Sounds like everyone was wrong, one note at a time is quite different than half speed or revamped midi tracks 


Not gonna lie though, the rage boner sso has for this band is straight creepy


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## isomorphic (Dec 18, 2014)

Breaking News:

Lucas Mann spotted in full "I <3 Haters" outfit outside of his mommy's house.


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## aesthyrian (Dec 18, 2014)

Seems Lucas has found way to make his band as big as possible as quickly as possible, a big joke.

This probably explains why Joel would play some of Lucas' solo's live.. the dude couldn't even be bothered to learn his own solos...

Oh well, carry on.


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## isomorphic (Dec 18, 2014)

Update:

Lucas Mann, in full "I <3 Haters" garb, has been taken away, abducted in plain sight. 

The spacecraft disappeared from view extremely quickly, but not before satellite imagery spotted a "Biggest Douche of the Universe 2014" insignia.

Stay tuned...


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## edsped (Dec 18, 2014)

Main guitarist and songwriter of technical deathcore whatever band literally can't play his own parts and has no desire to learn. 

Yet still people will defend this shit.


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## Lifestalker (Dec 18, 2014)

Blasphemer said:


> This whole thing is turning into a big soap opera.
> 
> Rings of our Lives
> As the World Sweeps
> ...





Divorces of Saturn


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## Danukenator (Dec 18, 2014)

Anyone notice a common non-sequitur that always (in comment sections) happens when people discuss this band?

Poster 1: "Man, it sucks that they faked being technical and can't actually play their stuff. I really respected their ability to play this stuff."

Poster 2: "Well, it's because they want a sterile sound, DUHHHH. Obviously they recorded note for note because of space...and aliens."

What does not being able to play something have to do with their technical abilities? If you record something note for note you still need to be able to play it live.

Oh well. I look forward to the HAARP Machine - Rings of Saturn comeback tour.


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## BrailleDecibel (Dec 18, 2014)

isomorphic said:


> Update:
> 
> Lucas Mann, in full "I <3 Haters" garb, has been taken away, abducted in plain sight.
> 
> ...


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## Darknut (Dec 18, 2014)

Oh RoS, you done it again!


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## metal_sam14 (Dec 18, 2014)

I've never cared how they recorded their stuff, I always had a problem with this attitude: "Give me 20 grand to do a solo album or it never happens". How about pull your head out of your ass. The whole guitar pro thing didn't help either.


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## UnattendedGolfcart (Dec 18, 2014)

The Facebook comments on It Djents and other pages are just saying "Oh well, to me only the music matters, and Lugal Kei En was the best most amazing album of the year"

"Only the music matters"

"The music matters"

"Music"

They'll deal with how crappy of a musician and person Lucas Mann is and pretend that recording note for note and not being able to play your parts DOESNT matter, because those parts don't have anything to do with "the music".


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## isomorphic (Dec 18, 2014)

CJLsky said:


>



_Here he is, the Biggest Douche of the Universe! In all the galaxies, there's no bigger douche than you!
You've reached the top, the pinnacle of douchedom! _


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 18, 2014)

UnattendedGolfcart said:


> They'll deal with how crappy of a musician and person Lucas Mann is and pretend that recording note for note and not being able to play your parts DOESNT matter, because those parts don't have anything to do with "the music".



People defended Tim Lambesis after he was found guilty. 

I constantly see people saying "FREE LAMBESIS!"

Shit gets creepy, yo.


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## PlumbTheDerps (Dec 18, 2014)

In other news, the sky is blue and bears shit in the woods. This band would be garbage even if Lucas Mann could play the songs he writes in Guitar Pro.


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## Darknut (Dec 18, 2014)

metal_sam14 said:


> I've never cared how they recorded their stuff, I always had a problem with this attitude: "Give me 20 grand to do a solo album or it never happens". How about pull your head out of your ass. The whole guitar pro thing didn't help either.


Yeah the money thing was absolutely ridiculous..


liamh said:


> I can't understand how anyone could possibly defend this guy as someone who actually plays his instrument after watching this video.
> 1:26 is so ....ing dumb/hilarious, I laugh every time I see it



I audibly laughed when I first watched this as well. When I found out he denied any editing, expecting the listener to take it completely seriously, it made all of it a huge joke. I suppose I would better respect his musicianship if he manned up and admitted to his unorthodox recording methods when confronted, but he still wouldnt be worth 20k like his fundraiser was asking.. The guy is just a piece of work.


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## Vostre Roy (Dec 18, 2014)




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## isomorphic (Dec 18, 2014)

Darknut said:


> Yeah the money thing was absolutely ridiculous..
> 
> I audibly laughed when I first watched this as well. When I found out he denied any editing, expecting the listener to take it completely seriously, it made all of it a huge joke. I suppose I would better respect his musicianship if he manned up and admitted to his unorthodox recording methods when confronted, but he still wouldnt be worth 20k like his fundraiser was asking.. The guy is just a piece of work.



Don't forget he also deleted and blocked all negative comments on it on fb, youtube, etc.


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## stevexc (Dec 18, 2014)

Guys guys guys...

I swear I've seen it a couple times, but it's "note BY note", not "note FOR note". Recording something note for note is a GOOD thing...


Anyways, why are we even wasting our time on this guy? The people who like RoS's sound can like it if they want, and those of us who don't can dislike it if we want. I seriously doubt there's any more than a handful of people that would switch camps if it turned out that he was faking or legit.

Good to know that professionally, he's a douche - but the whole debate surrounding whether he can or can't play, whether RoS is "good" or not, is just a giant circlejerk.


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## Joose (Dec 18, 2014)

stevexc said:


> Guys guys guys...
> 
> I swear I've seen it a couple times, but it's "note BY note", not "note FOR note". Recording something note for note is a GOOD thing...
> 
> ...



Anyway*

Sorry, had to.


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## spawnofthesith (Dec 18, 2014)

.... pink Floyd too while we're at it  :butthurt:


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## KJGaruda (Dec 18, 2014)

Finally the speculation can be put to rest!


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## flaik (Dec 18, 2014)

aahh, this sucks. 

I've always kind of liked Ros and never cared about the whole "half speed/note-by-note" recording thing because I have seen them pull of their shit live (and who cares, there was never a competition about who could have the cleanest sweep on their album). 

hearing from a reliable source that Lucas is being such an ass these days that he wont even motivate himself enough to learn the material anymore is just disappointing though.

looks like I have to finally join the fvck Lucas Mann bandwagon despite enjoying Ros' music in the past.


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## Fred the Shred (Dec 19, 2014)

So they record individual notes and Lucas Mann can't play the band's material. Oh my! The surprise!


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## ForThisGift (Dec 19, 2014)

Anyone who didn't already know that they recorded everything note by note was in denial. The news here is that he wasn't using it as just a production technique to capture the "brutal desolation of space and the intergalactic horrors of the great unknown." Turns out he's just a fake. Oh well.


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## Andromalia (Dec 19, 2014)

I'd actually think that who cares about the means of recording ? It's the result that matters, you like it or you don't. Pretending you can play while you can't isn't very bright but a recording is a recording. I don't like his music, either.


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## Ed_Ibanez_Shred (Dec 19, 2014)

This whole situation is so juvenile "hurrr I don't like RoS because Lucas can't play his parts and that makes their music objectively bad", Joel's comments are only fuelling this retarded shitstorm and to be honest it was always bitchy and puerile even when it was just the fans/haters saying it. 

It's like you're all looking for reasons to legitimise a petty hatred of a band, when you could just not listen to them


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## schwiz (Dec 19, 2014)

This band sucks.


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## Ed_Ibanez_Shred (Dec 19, 2014)

schwiz said:


> This band sucks.



this is exactly what I'm talking about


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## Darknut (Dec 19, 2014)

Andromalia said:


> I'd actually think that who cares about the means of recording ? It's the result that matters, you like it or you don't. Pretending you can play while you can't isn't very bright but a recording is a recording. I don't like his music, either.


I think there are a lot of people on this forum who are more than equipped to write and record music that they aren't capable of playing. I'm also sure those people have had many complex riff ideas and solo ideas that they wish they could utilized in their music, but chose not to because they can't actually play it, which goes against the point of playing guitar in the first place. You know, expressing and conveying feelings through your instrument? That whole thing? This is why people say, it doesn't need to be perfect live as long as you get the feel across, etc. But if you rely on the mechanical technicality as a defining characteristic of your music, and your feelings have expressed themselves through an articulate playing style you can't replicate live for whatever reason, you're setting yourself up for failure. Trailing everyone along and not being able to deliver the goods is one thing, lying about it, causing a stir, and asking for $20,000 in the process is another.

Others have tried explaining how messed up this is by saying things like "when you write something you should be expected to play it live" or something similar, which I think gets at the point, but still leaves room for misunderstanding. Really, everyone knows what we're talking about, its simple. When you play guitar, and you have videos of you playing guitar, and its shit that that you wrote for guitar, its no wonder that people will expect you to actually be able to play it on the guitar. I mean, he isn't Skrillex, dancing around with headphones on a laptop playing sequenced recordings and samples of instruments. This is metal, he has a guitar, but there is still a computer playing sequenced recordings and samples of instruments.

Did I mention the 20k part?


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## Darknut (Dec 19, 2014)

Ed_Ibanez_Shred said:


> This whole situation is so juvenile "hurrr I don't like RoS because Lucas can't play his parts and that makes their music objectively bad", Joel's comments are only fuelling this retarded shitstorm and to be honest it was always bitchy and puerile even when it was just the fans/haters saying it.
> 
> It's like you're all looking for reasons to legitimise a petty hatred of a band, when you could just not listen to them


Touche, but you could have just as easily ignored the thread and not responded, especially if the music sucks so bad and the discussion is so petty, lol.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 19, 2014)

Well damn...


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## Nats (Dec 19, 2014)

heh .__________.


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## Draceius (Dec 19, 2014)

Darknut said:


> Touche, but you could have just as easily ignored the thread and not responded, especially if the music sucks so bad and the discussion is so petty, lol.



And half the people in this thread could probably ignored it and not respond if they were just going to act like kids and make this as petty as they did, even if they think the music is bad. There are a lot of things people could chosen not to do, but that is irrelevant, people say what they want regardless of how petty. I think that much is clear from the responses here, the comments on the articles about it (because we undeniably love gossip) and the comments and other crap said on Lucas' facebook.

That said this is pretty funny to watch, I can't say I'm not guilty of enjoying a good shit storm.


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## Fred the Shred (Dec 19, 2014)

I think the appreciation for the music is not really too relevant if at all in this context - the whole shitstorm has some wicked entertainment potential, however, and some aspects are simply rather comical throughout the whole soap opera. I think the one objective issue here is how one pretends to be able to play something only for people to find out he is nowhere near there. In short, it's a far more heated version of the whole HAARP machine debacle.


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 19, 2014)

Hey, at least Al went back and learned his shit. I don't remember a whole lot of complaints about their Euro tour with the replacement band. 

I write music I can't play ALL THE TIME. I would never dream of recording and releasing it unless I could pull it off in a live context. I think part of pushing yourself as an artist and composer is delving into areas where you are not comfortable, but you should use that as a way to progress. What I find amusing about this situation is that the new record could have EASILY been composed of the samples of notes they recorded for the last one, and if dude could actually play most of that stuff, why can't he play the new stuff? Its not like one diminished run is much different than another. I mean, if you can sweep through one run of m3-tritone nonsense, why not another?

Maybe he just doesn't know about Guitar Pro's Speed Trainer feature. Ya know, where you practice stuff at an increasing tempo, over and over and over and over and over again until your neighbors (mom in his case) are pounding on the walls. Just like probably every "real" shredder out there had to do to be pull off the music they write and perform.


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## DarkWolfXV (Dec 19, 2014)

> So there's been quite a bit of vagueness to the real reason why I quit Rings of Saturn and It's been eating away at me keeping it to myself so here it goes. The deciding factor in me leaving the band was Lucas. I had enough of biting my tongue and going along for the ride. When I first joined the band we got along great and had the same common goals as musicians but that changed more and more over the years. To summarize he simply doesn't care about playing guitar or being a musician anymore. Word for word he told me "I don't give a shit about playing guitar or getting better at guitar, I just want to write music and get the band as big as possible in the shortest amount of time." So with that kind of attitude it hindered the band from playing any of the new songs from Lugal Ki En that we were suppose to be playing live for the last 6 months. Ian, Aaron, and myself were all capable of playing the new songs we prepared for the set but we had to make up excuses such as "the label won't let us play songs until the music video is out or we didn't have time to practice as a band so we aren't playing any songs on the album release tour." And his reason for not learning the songs was that he was too busy managing the band. I was also told to get off his back for it since he "Does more in life in general than I do." All in all what it comes down to is Lucas Mann is a hack of a musician and I will never work with him ever again. He stresses the band into recording songs note by note, releases them, doesn't learn them and then makes as much money as he can from the merch while sitting in the comfort of his parents' house. On top of that he is a self centered asshole to his band mates and fans which is not acceptable to me in anyway. I admit he is very smart with managing and promoting a band. Maybe he'd do better helping other bands since he doesn't have the desire to play instruments himself. I've learned a lot from being in ROS and met some amazing people but Ive had enough of the bullshit. I'm not going to sacrifice time with my family, my musicianship, or my integrity for some childish wanna be musician. I couldn't be happier with my choice to leave. I now have time with the people I care about and I've regained that burning passion for my instrument. Thanks to all who have supported the band, I'm excited to start releasing albums that are REAL all the way through for the remaining listeners of mine to enjoy. No longer will I stand for someone to record bullshit parts with my music and not even learn it. .... that. -Joel omens



Way to burn bridges and be unprofessional. That's why he'll never be even nearly as successful as Lucas even if Lucas can't play his own stuff. He should've kept his mouth shut.


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## Zalbu (Dec 19, 2014)

Was there ever any proof provided that the HAARP Machine stuff was faked? 

Anyways, 



> Way to burn bridges and be unprofessional. That's why he'll never be even nearly as successful as Lucas even if Lucas can't play his own stuff. He should've kept his mouth shut.



The only person who's unprofessional here is the musician who can't be bothered to learn how to play his own music. Why would this burn any bridges for Joel when Lucas is already seen as a walking joke by anybody whose opinion matters?


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## Chi (Dec 19, 2014)

DarkWolfXV said:


> Way to burn bridges and be unprofessional. That's why he'll never be even nearly as successful as Lucas even if Lucas can't play his own stuff. He should've kept his mouth shut.



A successful douchebag? Yeah, Mann's got that label alright.


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## BrailleDecibel (Dec 19, 2014)

DarkWolfXV said:


> Way to burn bridges and be unprofessional. That's why he'll never be even nearly as successful as Lucas even if Lucas can't play his own stuff. He should've kept his mouth shut.



I will agree to the point that he did indeed burn bridges (if they weren't burnt already) with that statement, but it sounds like he wanted them to be burned, and as far as unprofessionalism goes, I would have to say composing/releasing songs and then refusing to learn any of them, leaving your band unable to play any songs from the new album they're supposed to be promoting on tour takes the cake in that department, and that's before adding in all of Mann's other exploits in douche-canoeism that have been well-covered in this and prior threads and that I won't bother re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-repeating here.


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## TheHandOfStone (Dec 19, 2014)

Yeah throwing your ex-bandmate under the bus is unprofessional, but so is not learning your shit well enough to get through it live (I'm not even talking studio-perfect). It's kind of a bad look for everyone involved, which is okay because RoS is bad.


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## Konfyouzd (Dec 19, 2014)

GunpointMetal said:


> Hey, at least Al went back and learned his shit. I don't remember a whole lot of complaints about their Euro tour with the replacement band.
> 
> I write music I can't play ALL THE TIME. I would never dream of recording and releasing it unless I could pull it off in a live context. I think part of pushing yourself as an artist and composer is delving into areas where you are not comfortable, but you should use that as a way to progress. What I find amusing about this situation is that the new record could have EASILY been composed of the samples of notes they recorded for the last one, and if dude could actually play most of that stuff, why can't he play the new stuff? Its not like one diminished run is much different than another. I mean, if you can sweep through one run of m3-tritone nonsense, why not another?
> 
> Maybe he just doesn't know about Guitar Pro's Speed Trainer feature. Ya know, where you practice stuff at an increasing tempo, over and over and over and over and over again until your neighbors (mom in his case) are pounding on the walls. Just like probably every "real" shredder out there had to do to be pull off the music they write and perform.





Most things I write I can't play at first. But I do learn it. But I'm also not overly concerned with making my name or e-peen bigger so I have all the time in the world to learn my shit and no one will ever know/care if I don't.


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## Darknut (Dec 19, 2014)

Draceius said:


> And half the people in this thread could probably ignored it and not respond if they were just going to act like kids and make this as petty as they did, even if they think the music is bad. There are a lot of things people could chosen not to do, but that is irrelevant, people say what they want regardless of how petty. I think that much is clear from the responses here, the comments on the articles about it (because we undeniably love gossip) and the comments and other crap said on Lucas' facebook.
> 
> That said this is pretty funny to watch, I can't say I'm not guilty of enjoying a good shit storm.


You proved my point man. Whats the point of a music discussion forum if we can't discuss musical topics that interest us? Then someone comes in and tries saying people shouldn't have talked about it? My logic was if he thinks we should ignore this topic, then i think he should ignore the thread. But people shouldn't ignore the topic, which in turn means he shouldn't have to ignore the thread. And he didn't. That is the point. Yeah, we've been watching this unfold for months, like hell we weren't going to have a laugh and a chat about it.


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## Alex Kenivel (Dec 19, 2014)

Never liked them to begin with. I don't feel any different after reading the statement.


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## MikeH (Dec 19, 2014)

DarkWolfXV said:


> Way to burn bridges and be unprofessional. That's why he'll never be even nearly as successful as Lucas even if Lucas can't play his own stuff. He should've kept his mouth shut.



Successful? What the fuck planet are you on where a mid-level tech-metal band who tour in a van and probably make under $20,000 a year are considered successful?


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## edsped (Dec 19, 2014)

Ed_Ibanez_Shred said:


> This whole situation is so juvenile "hurrr I don't like RoS because Lucas can't play his parts and that makes their music objectively bad", Joel's comments are only fuelling this retarded shitstorm and to be honest it was always bitchy and puerile even when it was just the fans/haters saying it.
> 
> It's like you're all looking for reasons to legitimise a petty hatred of a band, when you could just not listen to them


I think "I can't play the music that I write for my *technical* metal band but I sure do pretend like I can! ps. give me $20k for a guitar pro album" is a pretty legitimate reason.


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## Darknut (Dec 19, 2014)

MikeH said:


> Successful? What the fuck planet are you on where a mid-level tech-metal band who tour in a van and probably make under $20,000 a year are considered successful?


Im starting to think RoS fans have musical standards as low as the guys in RoS, lol. All you need to be successful, is a shell of a band without any integrity! I mean all bands are the same nowdays right? Cook up a little logo, nice album art, some youtube vids, who cares about being able to play the shit. Oh wait, other bands actually slave to perform at the level they are selling themselves at? Other bands have integrity and standards? But.. but.. they shouldn't be expected to have standards!! Why are musicians expected to have standards??? JUST LET THEM GET AWAY WITH IT!


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## DarkWolfXV (Dec 19, 2014)

MikeH said:


> Successful? What the fuck planet are you on where a mid-level tech-metal band who tour in a van and probably make under $20,000 a year are considered successful?



"As successful as" are the keywords here. But besides that, for an extreme music, not very accessible band, 300k likes on facebook in five years and the "mid-levelness" are pretty good feats. Compared for example to a band like The Red Chord (only 36k likes), which is around since 1999, Rings of Saturn are way more well known and probably do make way more. Still better than the band _you_ were in and never got anywhere.


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## stevexc (Dec 19, 2014)

DarkWolfXV said:


> "As successful as" are the keywords here. But besides that, for an extreme music, not very accessible band, 300k likes on facebook in five years and the "mid-levelness" are pretty good feats. Compared for example to a band like The Red Chord (only 36k likes), which is around since 1999, Rings of Saturn are way more well known and probably do make way more. Still better than the band _you_ were in and never got anywhere.



Wait, your basis of comparison is Facebook likes? That seems a little ridiculous, especially since one of those bands has drummed up a LOT of attention just due to sheer drama rather than anything musical, and the other hasn't release an album since 2009 (coincidentally, Facebook didn't actually start spiking in user numbers until 2009... from a marketing perspective, RoS had the advantage there).

If you want other largely useless numbers to compare as well, Red Chord has 5 times as many fans on last.fm as RoS does.

I don't really have a point, other than, well, neither do you.


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## TonyGD (Dec 19, 2014)

Darknut said:


> I think there are a lot of people on this forum who are more than equipped to write and record music that they aren't capable of playing. I'm also sure those people have had many complex riff ideas and solo ideas that they wish they could utilized in their music, but chose not to because they can't actually play it, which goes against the point of playing guitar in the first place. You know, expressing and conveying feelings through your instrument? That whole thing? This is why people say, it doesn't need to be perfect live as long as you get the feel across, etc. But if you rely on the mechanical technicality as a defining characteristic of your music, and your feelings have expressed themselves through an articulate playing style you can't replicate live for whatever reason, you're setting yourself up for failure. Trailing everyone along and not being able to deliver the goods is one thing, lying about it, causing a stir, and asking for $20,000 in the process is another.
> 
> Others have tried explaining how messed up this is by saying things like "when you write something you should be expected to play it live" or something similar, which I think gets at the point, but still leaves room for misunderstanding. Really, everyone knows what we're talking about, its simple. When you play guitar, and you have videos of you playing guitar, and its shit that that you wrote for guitar, its no wonder that people will expect you to actually be able to play it on the guitar. I mean, he isn't Skrillex, dancing around with headphones on a laptop playing sequenced recordings and samples of instruments. This is metal, he has a guitar, but there is still a computer playing sequenced recordings and samples of instruments.
> 
> Did I mention the 20k part?



Spunky!!1 
haha yeah that 20k part was just...u srs brah???o he srs...good luck w that then i guess


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## Mprinsje (Dec 19, 2014)

GunpointMetal
Maybe he just doesn't know about Guitar Pro's Speed Trainer feature. Ya know said:


> Hold up,
> 
> Guitar pro has this? why didn't i know of this.


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## Hyacinth (Dec 19, 2014)

I really don't get how people are still defending this guy. He can compose like a mother fvcker, but he just straight up can't play his shit.


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## Pav (Dec 19, 2014)

I know nothing about Rings of Saturn...I stumbled into this thread because I've been hearing all about this guy Lucas Mann and I'm very confused as to what the situation is. Then I watched a few of the guy's youtube vids and my main question became "why does his guitar always sound strangely overdubbed/pre-recorded...?"


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## Captain Butterscotch (Dec 19, 2014)

This thread seems familiar.


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## Darknut (Dec 19, 2014)

Captain Butterscotch said:


> This thread seems familiar.


Except for you know, proof of RoS' controversial recording methods being provided from a recent and reliable source.


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## InfestedRabite (Dec 19, 2014)

Darknut said:


> Except for you know, proof of RoS' controversial recording methods being provided from a recent and reliable source.



it was kinda easy to prove by listening to their music tbh


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Dec 20, 2014)

Anyone else at the edge of their seat waiting for Lucas' response? 
I really hope he programs Smoke On the Water into guitar pro and then posts a playthrough.


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## Icecold (Dec 20, 2014)

If Lucas doesn't want to learn the music or progress as a musician then why does he continue to write music for the band or even continue as a member and not just as a manager? Sounds like the guy is just burnt out.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Dec 20, 2014)

He does it for the swag ^


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## Icecold (Dec 20, 2014)

You'd be better off becoming the head of the Night Court Fan Club for swag than continuing something you don't care about doing anymore.


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## isomorphic (Dec 20, 2014)

AngstRiddenDreams said:


> Anyone else at the edge of their seat waiting for Lucas' response?
> I really hope he programs Smoke On the Water into guitar pro and then posts a playthrough.



Seems he did

https://www.facebook.com/lucas.mann.750?fref=ts :



Biggest Douche in the Universe 2014 said:


> Im probably never going to respond to that bs directly. Im just gonna go out on our next tour with a new guitarist and shred the new songs live for everyone. I already am above it.





Biggest Douche in the Universe 2014 said:


> People are going to believe what they want despite what I say. There isnt any point. Im tired of "proving" myself over and over for the sheep of the internet.



So pathetic. This dude is severely delusional.


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## asher (Dec 20, 2014)

^ but I thought he <3s haters?

Dudes, writing music above your level and using other means to record it *is totally cool* to make what you want to make.

Just don't try to take it live if you can't play it (or it would be seriously compromised to make easier) and be honest and don't bullshit about it or your abilities.

It's all about the music, so keep it that way. People are gonna take note of the posturing, some mud will be slung, and pretty soon we're all knee deep in monkey shit and desperately wanting to take a shower.


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## Slunk Dragon (Dec 20, 2014)

Here's another good angle of this issue.

Marc Okubo, the guitarist in Veil of Maya, would always write songs he couldn't play at first. But he'd then go and practice them over and over until he COULD play them. I watched these guys live, he more than nails all the parts of songs he's played in the studio. And Veil of Maya has some pretty technical shit too.

Just some 2 cents to go with this.


Also totally loving the shitstorm. Glad a lot of you guys get what the actual issue is!


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## Icecold (Dec 20, 2014)

This band really needs a PR firm.


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## AngstRiddenDreams (Dec 20, 2014)

Icecold said:


> This band really needs a PR firm.



Someone contact Mehtab (Stealthtastic), I'm pretty sure his business is making people look good online.


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## simonXsludge (Dec 20, 2014)

The whole drama surrounding that band/guy is really entertaining. To be fair, his crowdfunding campaign was ridiculous and I remember some stupid statement from him where he claimed that the reaction to his ridiculous fvcking attempt was "what's wrong with the Metal scene" and how it has to change to, I guess, learn to appreciate his midi crap as real deal guitar playing worth $20k. The I <3 Haters hat was the icing on the cake, though. What a loser, hahaha...

How old is that guy even?


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## cronux (Dec 20, 2014)

Danukenator said:


> Oh well. I look forward to the HAARP Machine - Rings of Saturn comeback tour.


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## Ed_Ibanez_Shred (Dec 20, 2014)

Darknut said:


> Touche, but you could have just as easily ignored the thread and not responded, especially if the music sucks so bad and the discussion is so petty, lol.



Yeah I know I could have ignored it, but I do like discussing music (hence the existence of this forum) and I find it especially entertaining when people get so elitist over the way in which other people choose to make music. 



Darknut said:


> You proved my point man. Whats the point of a music discussion forum if we can't discuss musical topics that interest us? Then someone comes in and tries saying people shouldn't have talked about it? My logic was if he thinks we should ignore this topic, then i think he should ignore the thread. But people shouldn't ignore the topic, which in turn means he shouldn't have to ignore the thread. And he didn't. That is the point. Yeah, we've been watching this unfold for months, like hell we weren't going to have a laugh and a chat about it.



I wasn't criticising the fact that you chose to discuss RoS, I just don't like the specific argument, i.e., Lucas' ability to play his material. You shouldn't ignore the topic of music you don't like, you should just accept that they have chosen to make their music this way  



edsped said:


> I think "I can't play the music that I write for my *technical* metal band but I sure do pretend like I can! ps. give me $20k for a guitar pro album" is a pretty legitimate reason.



I deliberately chose to leave the 20k fiasco out of this, because it was clearly a bad move on his part  I don't think anyone would side with Lucas on that, it was fairly dumb


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## jonajon91 (Dec 20, 2014)

I think the ratings on RateYourMusic speak loudly enough to show how much of a shit anyone should give about this.


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## redstone (Dec 20, 2014)

True facts about RoS. (I don't like tech-death and don't care about the band)

- There are no sped up and guitar pro parts. It's purposefully made to sound inhuman though it's trickier than actually superhard to play. Mostly tapping below the Ron Thal level and tremolo-picking, without the note attack. Vibrato sounds like whammy bar with precise yet easy rhythmic patterns.

- So far, both guitarists played their parts live. Of course they couldn't remove the pick attacks, although the axe-fx might help, or sampling notes individually like they did on the album etc.

- The band never pretended to be legit when recording the albums. They never hide the heavy processing, quite the opposite. Don't hate them because it wasn't explained on the album cover.

- Lucas is an asshole for letting Joel learn all parts in vain.

- Joel is an asshole for pretending that Lucas is a fraud.

- The angry RoS hater is an asshole because he can't tell what's legit from what is not and can't stand that humiliation. Haters are vastly responsible for this situation. Putting a lot of pressure on the band, making Lucas sound like he's not a proficient guitarist/composer and giving all the band a terrible reputation, no wonder why Joel freaked out. Actually both freaked out in opposite ways I guess but who would not ? Just leave Britney alone.


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## Darknut (Dec 20, 2014)

Ed_Ibanez_Shred said:


> Yeah I know I could have ignored it, but I do like discussing music (hence the existence of this forum) and I find it especially entertaining when people get so elitist over the way in which other people choose to make music.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol. Of course you left out the 20k part. Because that is largely connected to my "specific argument" which no, is not solely about his recording methods. If you read my posts you'd see that I mention the fact that he lied about it, and asked for 20k in the process. I already proved my point in that you responded to the thread just like everyone else, because the topic is worth a chat. I don't understand your angle man. It isn't about being elitist over his recording methods, as others have said, if he was truthful about it, it wouldn't be an issue. it's about lying and denying, and asking for 20k. No standards man.  maybe you should accept that people are gonna talk about this, you talked about it, and that lying to fans and asking them for 20k is in fact ....ed up.


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## -One- (Dec 20, 2014)

redstone said:


> True facts about RoS. (I don't like tech-death and don't care about the band)
> 
> - There are no sped up and guitar pro parts. It's purposefully made to sound inhuman though it's trickier than actually superhard to play. Mostly tapping below the Ron Thal level and tremolo-picking, without the note attack. Vibrato sounds like whammy bar with precise yet easy rhythmic patterns.
> 
> ...


I was with you, up until the end of this post. But let's be real here. "Haters" are not responsible for this situation. Lucas was always the less proficient guitarist compared to Joel (Joel's live performance was always tighter and cleaner than Lucas', and Lucas couldn't be bothered to play half of his own solos, so Joel played them). On top of that, Lucas couldn't even be bothered to learn how to play songs from their new album? The ....ing album has already been recorded and released. People who _aren't in the band_ know Lucas' material better than he does at this point. That's the epitome of unprofessional, and frankly, I'm a fan of the band, and in a band myself, and I still think that Lucas choosing not to learn new songs out of what is basically laziness is utterly reprehensible.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 20, 2014)




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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 20, 2014)

Slunk Dragon said:


> Here's another good angle of this issue.
> 
> Marc Okubo, the guitarist in Veil of Maya, would always write songs he couldn't play at first. But he'd then go and practice them over and over until he COULD play them. I watched these guys live, he more than nails all the parts of songs he's played in the studio. And Veil of Maya has some pretty technical shit too.


I'm the same way. Angel Vivaldi is the same way. Mark Okubo is the same way. A lot of us write stuff (before or during the recording process) that we can't play but then we go back and get it spot-on through practice.


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## GoldDragon (Dec 20, 2014)

I just watched some of this bands videos and Lucas' solo song. Don't really know how to process this. Its obviously unplayable, mostly special effects that maybe they could do with delays or running the guitar through an arpeggiator.

The vocals don't even pretend to be intelligible, they are run through so much distortion and pitch correction, its more of a special effect. Are there actual lyrics or did they use NI's SKream VSTi? I guess it doesn't matter.

Then watching Lucas solo song, he's using a sound that is completely without dynamics. It doesnt matter whether he picks or taps it all sounds the same. Is this where tone is headed, is this what the AXE FX really gives us? Do people not want to hear the attack and decay of a note? His picking technique is pretty bad. I doubt he could play half of this with a real amp.

That said, I recognize that it is very creative, so I give all the other stuff a pass, but it is more "magic trick" than it is music. Even if you saw them pull it off live, I don't think you would be left with the impression that they were good musicians and they have the performance skills of your typical bedroom wanker. I'd rather watch Nicki Minaj than this. I think they miss the point of technical metal, to demonstrate amazing chops and wow the audience. Lucas' claim that his bandmate did not want to learn his parts is a bit hypocritical when his stuff is mostly illusory. I blame Guitar Hero for this mess.


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## KFW (Dec 20, 2014)

This to me just sounds like the guy has an unorthodox method of recording/composing, and procrastinated on learning the new songs he wrote. I think it's been corroborated enough that he CAN play Rings of Saturn songs live--people are making it sound like he just picked up the guitar yesterday.

All the other stuff sounds like personal matters that aren't really anyone's business. Honestly I think Lucas's response was mature...just ignore it and get a new guitarist that will play when they're ready. 

And I don't see anything wrong with what he allegedly said along the lines of "I don't care about guitar, don't want to get better, just want to write songs and get the band as big as possible." Sounds like he's just happy with his skill level and isn't particularly passionate about guitar anymore. 

So I don't really see the big deal. There are live videos all over Youtube of them playing their stuff and sounding just fine. Of course it's not as surgically perfect as the album, but it's so incredibly obvious that they edit their albums like that on purpose, I see no reason for them to put some kind of disclaimer on their sound.

I find it odd how passionately people hate this band/guitarist. I'm not a fan, and didn't even know about them until this thread. It just seems like people hate this guy on a personal level based on very weak evidence/observations. Doesn't seem like any more of a crime than the hundreds of bands that quantize their drums in the studio, record one riff at a time, or autotune vocals.


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## Ajb667 (Dec 20, 2014)

I got bored


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## redstone (Dec 20, 2014)

GoldDragon said:


> I just watched some of this bands videos and Lucas' solo song. Don't really know how to process this. Its obviously unplayable



Please tab those licks you know so well.



-One- said:


> "Haters" are not responsible for this situation. Lucas was always the less proficient guitarist compared to Joel (Joel's live performance was always tighter and cleaner than Lucas', and Lucas couldn't be bothered to play half of his own solos, so Joel played them). On top of that, Lucas couldn't even be bothered to learn how to play songs from their new album? The ....ing album has already been recorded and released. People who _aren't in the band_ know Lucas' material better than he does at this point. That's the epitome of unprofessional, and frankly, I'm a fan of the band, and in a band myself, and I still think that Lucas choosing not to learn new songs out of what is basically laziness is utterly reprehensible.



Do you honestly think that someone who worked that hard just became suddenly lazy ? Haters broke him. Stage fright, fear of failure, this psychological bullying works like a self-fullfilling prophecy. It's hard to progress when people only acknowledge your failures.


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## isomorphic (Dec 20, 2014)

KFW said:


> This to me just sounds like the guy has an unorthodox method of recording/composing, and procrastinated on learning the new songs he wrote. I think it's been corroborated enough that he CAN play Rings of Saturn songs live--people are making it sound like he just picked up the guitar yesterday.
> .



I actually think the production on the new album is excellent, if they were strictly a studio band then a chunk of this drama would never happen. 

The fact is Lucas is an immature person, who has denied EVERYTHING every single time, unable to admit fault, or just simply lie about things.

And he hasn't played any songs from the new album yet, which is the main issue here. Read Joel's wall of text please.






> All the other stuff sounds like personal matters that aren't really anyone's business. *Honestly I think Lucas's response was mature*...just ignore it and get a new guitarist that will play when they're ready.



Lol yeah, completely dodging everything, calling what Joel said "bs" (in other words, instead of being an adult and owning up to anything, he's in essence calling Joel a liar), and calling anyone who believes Joel a "sheep".

Real mature. It's on par with his classic "I <3 Haters" schtick. 




> And I don't see anything wrong with what he allegedly said along the lines of "I don't care about guitar, don't want to get better, just want to write songs and get the band as big as possible." Sounds like he's just happy with his skill level and isn't particularly passionate about guitar anymore.



The point is he can't play his new material live, and other members can. He wants to get the band bigger but doesn't want to put in the effort in actually playing his songs (entitled attitude). 

Instead he just told his fans actual lies about not playing new material because of the label. Again, I suggest you read the whole Joel statement, and not just quote mine.




> So I don't really see the big deal. There are live videos all over Youtube of them playing their stuff and sounding just fine. Of course it's not as surgically perfect as the album, but it's so incredibly obvious that they edit their albums like that on purpose, I see no reason for them to put some kind of disclaimer on their sound.



The big deal is this dude is a completely entitled brat who can't admit any fault and has rubbed a large portion of the tech community the wrong way because of his attitude and immaturity. 

I think most reasonable people would concede the fact that Lucas can play the first two albums (he did write them himself...) but he can't play this new album as of now, and can't admit fault



> I find it odd how passionately people hate this band/guitarist. I'm not a fan, and didn't even know about them until this thread. It just seems like people hate this guy on a personal level based on very weak evidence/observations. Doesn't seem like any more of a crime than the hundreds of bands that quantize their drums in the studio, record one riff at a time, or autotune vocals



The majority of the hatred is directed at Lucas for reasons I've already detailed.

If you think Joel's accounts, as well the accounts of other past band members, other bands who have toured with ROS, and fans is "very weak evidence" then I'm out of words.


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## Shimme (Dec 20, 2014)

I wouldn't care that it's faked if he didn't pretend that it was real


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## GoldDragon (Dec 20, 2014)

Shimme said:


> I wouldn't care that it's faked if he didn't pretend that it was real



Exactly. If a keyboard player holds down a key and his synth plays 128th notes in perfect time its no big deal.

If a dance music producer plays a single note and his computer arpeggiates it to an interesting chord, its no big deal.

If a pop singer uses autotune its no big deal.

If a guitarist in a genre that values technical proficiency is pretending that studio tricks are actual playable parts, and then is unable to demonstrate them live, then its a problem.


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## aesthyrian (Dec 20, 2014)

To some, everything you listed is quite a big deal, actually.

To an extent it comes down to personal preference, I suppose.

My stance is simply that in an age where there are too many musicians and bands as it is, I really don't need to waste time or energy with "artist's" that care not to learn their own material, or even honestly create said material. All that does is further dilute the integrity of modern music as a whole, IMO. 

I also don't like being lied to or feeling like a fool, and it would hard to be RoS fan and not feel that way at this point.


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## Jake (Dec 20, 2014)

GoldDragon said:


> is this what the AXE FX really gives us? Do people not want to hear the attack and decay of a note? His picking technique is pretty bad. I doubt he could play half of this with a real amp.


What you were hearing was not an axe fx, it was guitar pro that he claimed was a real amp. The axe fx very much still picks up the attack of your picking and such. Lucas is just a hack who thought people wouldn't notice if he just mimed to a GP track...but we obviously all noticed.


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## stevexc (Dec 20, 2014)

Jake said:


> What you were hearing was not an axe fx, it was guitar pro that he claimed was a real amp. The axe fx very much still picks up the attack of your picking and such. Lucas is just a hack who thought people wouldn't notice if he just mimed to a GP track...but we obviously all noticed.



Just playing devil's advocate here, we don't actually know for a fact that it was GuitarPro. It definitely sounds like a midi track, but it's entirely possible that they did that much overproduction to intentionally make it sound like that. Within the Ruins has the exact same sound to my ears, and as far as I know they're not believed to be fake - I can't stand them so I haven't followed the news, though.

All we can really say for certain is that regardless of the process, the final product sounds like reamped midi. Which some people are apparently into.


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Dec 20, 2014)

aesthyrian said:


> I also don't like being lied to or feeling like a fool, and it would hard to be RoS fan and not feel that way at this point.



Its not hard at all really. Hopefully most fans of RoS, at least the ones who play an instrument, can tell that anything past their first album was done note by note and edited to hell and back. To me there was never any illusion that this stuff was being recorded with a live take in the studio, anyone who listens to it should be able to tell that it's not since it's so blatantly obvious.

I also find it hilarious that I potentially know how to play more off their new album than Lucas


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## GoldDragon (Dec 20, 2014)

Jake said:


> What you were hearing was not an axe fx, it was guitar pro that he claimed was a real amp. The axe fx very much still picks up the attack of your picking and such. Lucas is just a hack who thought people wouldn't notice if he just mimed to a GP track...but we obviously all noticed.



I know the AXE can do real amp tones, I just figured he used it to put an envelope and compression on his notes, but that wouldn't explain the weird attack I suppose. Maybe it is GuitarPro.


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## tacotiklah (Dec 20, 2014)

Joel is just confirming what the majority of musicians already knew. Whatever skill he may actually have has been overshadowed by his complete douchenozzlery and ego. I remember back when the mayhem festival (I think it was mayhem, but could've been another one) was having people vote for bands to be on the bill and RoS was one of them. They got slightly edged out at the last second, and instead of being gracious about having lost, Mann took to facebook to whine and bitch and complain until the promoters put THEM on the bill instead of the other band that won. (I believe it was Thy Art Is Murder)

People can listen to whatever they want, I honestly don't care. Where I DO get my panties in a twist is when people knowingly defraud and lie to people while pocketing their money based upon that deceit. If you claim to be a technical band, yet you don't even bother with practicing your instrument and use ridiculous amounts of studio chicanery to achieve your sound, you're a liar, a cheat, a sneak, and a thief. 

But hey, if people wanna throw their money at this ripoff band, then it's as the saying goes, "A fool and his money are both soon parted."


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## Jake (Dec 20, 2014)

GoldDragon said:


> I know the AXE can do real amp tones, I just figured he used it to put an envelope and compression on his notes, but that wouldn't explain the weird attack I suppose. Maybe it is GuitarPro.


IMO it's not a real guitar at all, but I suppose it would be possible to edit it to the point it sounded like that but still to get every note so uniform and even would be borderline impossible like in that solo project video he had. My opinion of course before someone posts a video of them doing so to prove me wrong


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## Pav (Dec 20, 2014)

That solo video he posted blew my freaking mind. He's clearly just miming the guitar over some kind of pre-made track. Not only is it clean to the point of sounding inhuman, but there are parts where his hands move yet the tone doesn't change at all.

I'm sure I'm very late to this party, but the fake video combined with the requiring of $20k for a solo album is borderline insulting as a musician.


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## redstone (Dec 20, 2014)

Pav said:


> but there are parts where his hands move yet the tone doesn't change at all.



He plays the same notes on different strings, of course the midi/whatever track doesn't reflect that reality.


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## Pav (Dec 20, 2014)

The track doesn't reflect it because the track is clearly not actually him playing. 



From 1:27 to 1:33. The obnoxious sweeping section (which in and of itself looks suspicious) ends on a single, sustained note. But rewind and watch his hands while that note is sustaining...the note doesn't waver at all, yet meanwhile you see him re-position his entire hand two or three frets lower. Then when he picks up playing the next part you can tell his hands are suddenly out of sync with the video.

Fake. I admit, it took me a few views to catch onto what seemed so "off" about the video, but once you pick up on it it's pretty obvious.

Edit: and after checking out several of his other "solo" videos, every single one of them seem to feature the same giant ballooning link to "WATCH ME SHRED RAW GUITAR AT 300BPM!" Not only is his "raw guitar" still fed through a huge Axe FX rig, but the plain alternate picking he demonstrates isn't even close to the level of Rings of Saturn songs. I don't doubt at all that the man can play guitar (generally speaking) but he is clearly not the insane shred machine he passes himself off as. Maybe I shouldn't even care since I don't listen to Rings of Saturn to begin with, but man...something about this guy actively makes me angry. I don't know about anyone else here but god only knows how many hours I've spent locked in a room, with nothing but a guitar and a metronome, practicing my ass off because I wanted to be the real deal. Assholes like this suggest that I wasted 12 ....ing years of my life playing, because apparently it only takes two years of practice and a nice DAW and there you go, you're a metal god.

I feel like I'm branching off on an angry tangent so I'll stop there.


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## Chi (Dec 20, 2014)

I still can't get over the fact that he wanted 20k to record a solo album. There's people here using budget AS FVCK equipment but still do their stuff because it's what they love to do, as musicians. I won't even start that you can get a close-to-professional sounding mix/master with a tight budget and a computer at home nowadays, so his excuse that he wants to do it "professionally" is completely void.

This guy just infuriates me.


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## Slunk Dragon (Dec 20, 2014)

Guys, guys, the answer is easy.

We start a RoS cover band, and play all the notes.


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## thrsher (Dec 20, 2014)

i played a show with ROS last year. i got to the venue at 2pm when just ROS was there. i watched first hand the band argue right in front. it was lucas vs the world. i witnessed first hand how much of a dick lucas is, how he looks down on people. i tried to talk gear and his sig. guitar with him and he didnt know shit about the technical aspects of the guitar.


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## leftyguitarjoe (Dec 21, 2014)

I played a house show at my guitarist's house tonight and Jesse Beahler came out. I asked him about the time he was in RoS. He said he quit because Lucas sucked so much. He confirmed that he doesnt know how to play most of their own material.


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## fps (Dec 21, 2014)

I only heard about Rings Of Saturn through people complaining about them, I enjoyed complaining about the solo project video myself, and I've now heard their music because of all this and I like it and might well buy an album. 

While not disrespecting the strength of people's feelings, slagging off this guy instead of promoting bands you like is doing his job for him.


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## Jackzaa (Dec 21, 2014)

Pav said:


> The track doesn't reflect it because the track is clearly not actually him playing.



Really wish he'd hit his goal now, I would've loved to have seen how it went down.

"Yeah for this album I decided to scrap the traditional CD and .mp3 format, and I decided to go with a mass email with all the tracks in ultra high resolution, totally better for your ears and much more awesome .gp6 format.

... For your benefit.."


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## maliciousteve (Dec 21, 2014)

Are some of you honestly saying you didn't realize that he didn't actually play that live? 

It sounds like a Guitar Pro file, come on people you can't be that gullible...


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## downburst82 (Dec 21, 2014)

I always hoped somebody would take an half hour or so and program a bit of what he is "playing" in the solo project video into GuitarPro, play it back and see if it actually does sound the same (and make a video sharing it obviously). 
I honestly never felt qualified to make a judgement since I have zero guitar pro experience, but it always seemed like that would be a pretty quick way to end that speculation/argument.

I suppose its more or less pointless now (or any time really )since the soap opera is onto bigger and better things.

Since I've never met Lucas or had any interaction with him I would never feel qualified to judge him on a personal level...but the evidence seems to be mounting that at least it a band context he is dishonest to his fans and unfair to his band mates.


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## fps (Dec 21, 2014)

downburst82 said:


> I always hoped somebody would take an half hour or so and program a bit of what he is "playing" in the solo project video into GuitarPro, play it back and see if it actually does sound the same (and make a video sharing it obviously).
> I honestly never felt qualified to make a judgement since I have zero guitar pro experience, but it always seemed like that would be a pretty quick way to end that speculation/argument.
> 
> I suppose its more or less pointless now (or any time really )since the soap opera is onto bigger and better things.
> ...



There is no argument, he's not playing in that video.


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## redstone (Dec 21, 2014)

Pav said:


> From 1:27 to 1:33. The obnoxious sweeping section (which in and of itself looks suspicious)



Sweep ? It's legato and tapping on penta positions.

So how are you able to compare Lucas technique to RoS ? Nothing in RoS is special but the composition and note/note recording. The licks are basic shred. Maybe Lucas should explain it publicly but I doubt you would listen to him since you're too busy acting like guitar experts on the internet.

Why playing it legit when the licks are actually nothing special, nothing worth bragging about ? You're the ones who started the whole "RoS is impossible to play" drama.


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## Jake (Dec 21, 2014)

No one said it's impossible to play....just that Lucas himself can't play it and therefore shouldn't have a made a video where he was clearly faking it and then asked everyone for $20,000 for a bedroom album of faked bullshit. 


He's also a tremendous douche whenever he gets called out and just says "wahh the internet is wrong and I'm right, give me more money to fix the band I broke up by being a douche and fund my shit."

Anyway I'm out of this thread now because theres no point in me staying.


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## redstone (Dec 21, 2014)

Jake said:


> No one said it's impossible to play....just that Lucas himself can't play it and therefore shouldn't have a made a video where he was clearly faking it and then asked everyone for $20,000 for a bedroom album of faked bullshit.



Lucas can play that video. It is clearly synced and within his ability. Moreover, the only suspicious part, first half of the 1:27 lick is easy to play in pure tapping, there's no reason to make it harder but being able to play it that way. And there's no reason to think otherwise if you're able to tab and play it.


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## GoldDragon (Dec 21, 2014)

redstone said:


> Lucas can play that video. It is clearly synced and within his ability. Moreover, the only suspicious part, first half of the 1:27 lick is easy to play in pure tapping, there's no reason to make it harder but being able to play it that way. And there's no reason to think otherwise if you're able to tab and play it.



My problem was not with his guitar skills or the fact that he overdubbed his video with a pre-recorded track, but that his guitar tone was so homogenized that it didn't matter if he got the dynamics or inflections right, which casts suspicion on the whole thing.

For instance, I'm working on a Marco Sfogli song and if you took a video of me playing it synced to Marco's rendition, I would look like a stud because you wouldn't hear all the timing imperfections and differences in dynamics, that separate a great performance from one that is barely there.

However, even if Marco syncs his video to a prerecorded song, its not suspect because the guitar sounds real, there is no doubt he performed it. 

The guitar performances are in question here because they don't sound real to begin with, either they are a VSTi playing midi or so highly processed/edited/autotuned that they were never a real performance. Even if he can move his fingers to make it look like he is playing the track, that doesn't mean it wouldn't sound amateurish (if we could hear what he was playing) or that he could even perform it in a single take.

But the door is open for him to proove himself. If he sees this thread, and I'm sure he has, he can simply record a live version of the song in a single take to silence the haters. Bonus points if he can do it with a real amp. He could just set up an amp in room and record the in room sound playing against his backing track in the computer.


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## JustMac (Dec 21, 2014)

Pav said:


> The track doesn't reflect it because the track is clearly not actually him playing.



That's a shame he made such an ass out of himself, that song is kinda nice, the start of it sounds just like the music they used to play during the EuroNews weather a while ago (not saying he stole it though). But that video is just ridiculous, what a mong.


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## -One- (Dec 21, 2014)

tacotiklah said:


> Joel is just confirming what the majority of musicians already knew. Whatever skill he may actually have has been overshadowed by his complete douchenozzlery and ego. I remember back when the mayhem festival (I think it was mayhem, but could've been another one) was having people vote for bands to be on the bill and RoS was one of them. They got slightly edged out at the last second, and instead of being gracious about having lost, Mann took to facebook to whine and bitch and complain until the promoters put THEM on the bill instead of the other band that won. (I believe it was Thy Art Is Murder)


That was Summer Slaughter 2013. Yeah, Lucas whined and bitched until RoS was added to the bill. TAIM was still on the tour though, and actually played _after_ RoS (which I got a kick out of).


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## maliciousteve (Dec 21, 2014)

redstone said:


> Lucas can play that video. It is clearly synced and within his ability. Moreover, the only suspicious part, first half of the 1:27 lick is easy to play in pure tapping, there's no reason to make it harder but being able to play it that way. And there's no reason to think otherwise if you're able to tab and play it.



lol wut? 

Are you unaware that the velocity of his picking doesn't change? You can clearly see he's 'playing' certain notes harder by the movement of his picking hand yet it doesn't sound like it.


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## redstone (Dec 21, 2014)

GoldDragon said:


> My problem was not with his guitar skills or the fact that he overdubbed his video with a pre-recorded track, but that his guitar tone was so homogenized that it didn't matter if he got the dynamics or inflections right, which casts suspicion on the whole thing.



@maliciousteve

He could have really synced it perfectly and used true guitar sounds if he really wanted to play dirty. It's not the purpose of that video .. Why do you want to know if he can play like a machine ? You can hear on other vids that he can't, it's not a secret. So what would it change ?


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## KFW (Dec 21, 2014)

redstone said:


> @maliciousteve
> 
> He could have really synced it perfectly and used true guitar sounds if he really wanted to play dirty. It's not the purpose of that video .. Why do you want to know if he can play like a machine ? You can hear on other vids that he can't, it's not a secret. So what would it change ?



That's kinda what I think--I don't really see the evidence of this guy trying to make it sound like he can play exactly like that. I have no reason to believe he doesn't just write that music, and then likes that type of aesthetic for his recordings.

It's so blatantly obvious, that I don't see why there needs to be some disclaimer. Has this guy flat out said that his recordings aren't done note for note, and aren't altered? Has anyone SEEN this guy say it (link to an article maybe?). I'm not some huge RoS fan that's looking to argue...I legitimately don't see much of a problem with any of this. And I can't fault him for asking for 20k either, maybe he wanted to record it in a high end studio, which factoring in travel costs and a top producer, that can be pretty pricey. Not far off from $20,000 for a whole album. Maybe he just wants to try and make money only from music, and saw that as a good route. You know everyone that donated would have done it voluntarily...


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## Darknut (Dec 21, 2014)

KFW said:


> Has this guy flat out said that his recordings aren't done note for note, and aren't altered? Has anyone SEEN this guy say it (link to an article maybe?)


http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/3759705-post114.html
Like seriously, read that whole thread.



redstone said:


> @maliciousteve
> 
> He could have really synced it perfectly and used true guitar sounds if he really wanted to play dirty. It's not the purpose of that video .. Why do you want to know if he can play like a machine ? You can hear on other vids that he can't, it's not a secret. So what would it change ?


That "wanted to play dirty" part is a bit backwards. Maybe if he wanted it to sound clean he should learn to play it as clean as he edits his recordings to be. Maybe if he doesn't want people giving him shit, he shouldn't lie about his recording methods to the people he is asking money from.


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## KFW (Dec 21, 2014)

Huh, weird.

And the thing is, if he completely owned up to it I don't think anyone would really care. He could just say "Yeah, I like to record note by note because I think it sounds cool."


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 21, 2014)

redstone said:


> @maliciousteve
> 
> He could have really synced it perfectly and used true guitar sounds if he really wanted to play dirty. It's not the purpose of that video .. Why do you want to know if he can play like a machine ? You can hear on other vids that he can't, it's not a secret. So what would it change ?



Why mime over the video? Why not just post a soundcloud link or just a youtube video with just audio?


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## Necris (Dec 21, 2014)

KFW said:


> Huh, weird.
> 
> And the thing is, if he completely owned up to it I don't think anyone would really care. He could just say "Yeah, I like to record note by note because I think it sounds cool."



People wouldn't, the guy behind Sol 2183 was pretty open about the fact that he can't actually play the stuff he's writing from beginning to end at the tempo the final versions are at. To paraphrase him, some of it was recorded with the tempo reduced by 20% (or more or less, he said an average of 20%), and some of it was even tracked note by note and stitched together to get things to sound how he wanted them to and no-one cares.


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## redstone (Dec 21, 2014)

Darknut said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/3759705-post114.html
> Like seriously, read that whole thread.



He deserves the hate.. if he wasn't joking that is. Anyone could have say that for the lulz and tell the truth afterwards. Or maybe he thought the question was a joke, since it's obviously not him playing.

@hehasthejazz  for the lulz ?


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## Blasphemer (Dec 21, 2014)

KFW said:


> Huh, weird.
> 
> And the thing is, if he completely owned up to it I don't think anyone would really care. He could just say "Yeah, I like to record note by note because I think it sounds cool."



Bingo.


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## GoldDragon (Dec 21, 2014)

KFW said:


> Huh, weird.
> 
> And the thing is, if he completely owned up to it I don't think anyone would really care. He could just say "Yeah, I like to record note by note because I think it sounds cool."



I would care, actually. The world is full of enough shit musicians to have the airwaves clouded by more guys who are pretending they can really play. This is a youtube + entitlement phenomenon. If I could record my songs at 10% speed and use Melodyne to quantize and move the notes around, I would be a rock star. Seriously. 

This is where the rubber meets the road, either show you can play your stuff or gtfo.

This is worse than lip syncing because at least pop artists who lip sync live were able to capture the performance in the studio and they are usually lip syncing because they have to dance and perform. You have to put your foot down somewhere and this guy has been exposed. I think we should all forget about him and find something better to listen to. I think the reason he was able to find some notoriety is that teen listeners probably couldn't tell it was fake because they don't know enough about guitar music.


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## tacotiklah (Dec 21, 2014)

I agree that if he was upfront about what he was doing, then very few people would've cared. It's the fact that he is so blatantly lying while trying to weasel money out of people for a substandard product/service that was being passed off as professional.

When I try to show new songs to people and I haven't had much time for pre-production or anything like that, I'll write it out in gpro, export the midi of it, then convert it to .mp3 with some edits. The difference is that I'm upfront with the fact that it's midi-based, and I don't take people for complete suckers by claiming to be anything other than midi-based.


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## Darknut (Dec 21, 2014)

redstone said:


> He deserves the hate.. if he wasn't joking that is. Anyone could have say that for the lulz and tell the truth afterwards. Or maybe he thought the question was a joke, since it's obviously not him playing.
> 
> @hehasthejazz  for the lulz ?


At that point, why hold anyone responsible for any action or statement of theirs if they can just claim they are joking? The guy is going to be held accountable for his actions whether or not he finds them to be humorous.


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## DarkWolfXV (Dec 22, 2014)

GoldDragon said:


> This is a youtube + entitlement phenomenon. If I could record my songs at 10% speed and use Melodyne to quantize and move the notes around, I would be a rock star. Seriously.



You wouldn't, silly. That's very naive of you.


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## redstone (Dec 22, 2014)

Darknut said:


> At that point, why hold anyone responsible for any action or statement of theirs if they can just claim they are joking? The guy is going to be held accountable for his actions whether or not he finds them to be humorous.



Alright, then give equal punishment to Shawn and Paul 

http://youtu.be/FQkAP-FyT48 
Paul Gilbert - Get Out Of My Yard - YouTube

-- edit --

Interview of Paul Gilbert for "Get Out Of My Yard" release

"did you play all the instruments by yourself" -> "most of the guitar was recorded in my studio, I played everything" LIAR LIAAAARRRRR


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## Darknut (Dec 22, 2014)

redstone said:


> Alright, then give equal punishment to Shawn and Paul
> 
> http://youtu.be/FQkAP-FyT48
> Paul Gilbert - Get Out Of My Yard - YouTube
> ...


Lol. I would never, and you know that. Paul never lied about his recording methods for that song, or the echo song. He used the term "echo" in the song name. I can't count how many vids Paul shows and talks about the loop pedal he used to create the intro to GOoMY that you posted.

Shawn lane openly admitted that he couldn't play parts of the video you posted of his playing as well.

Neither of these situations apply, and you should know that, especially if you read and understood any of the recent posts in this thread. I honestly think you're trolling at this point.

Putting Paul's or Shawn's standards of musicianship in the same boat as Lucas', even for the sake of a joke, is just ludicrous. Its a shame, really.


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## redstone (Dec 22, 2014)

Darknut said:


> Lol. I would never, and you know that. Paul never lied about his recording methods for that song, or the echo song. He used the term "echo" in the song name. I can't count how many vids Paul shows and talks about the loop pedal he used to create the intro to GOoMY that you posted.
> 
> Shawn lane admitted that he couldn't play parts of the video you posted of his playing as well. He never lied, and when he was confronted he was very "modest" and truthful about not being able to play it.



Just edited, read the post above again ... But yes I'm trolling, however, I consider you're trolling too. I'm curious to read what Shawn Lane said about it, never found anything about it.

For the story, I actually bought the tri tone fascination at the release just to tab and find out how Kaiser was recorded. And I know some people who bought goomy because of that first track.


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## Darknut (Dec 22, 2014)

redstone said:


> Just edited, read the post above again ... But yes I'm trolling, however, I consider you're trolling too. I'm curious to read what Shawn Lane said about it, never found anything about it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DKA0gY328Q
That is Shawn explaining every thing.

About Paul, when he was asked that question in the interview you posted, the interviewer was basically asking if anyone else was featured on the album because it was a solo album etc. That is just completely out of context. Paul wasn't being directly confronted about suspicious recording methods, and he wasn't lying directly to it as a response, unlike the situation with Lucas on facebook. On the Get Out of My Yard DVD he goes into great detail about the loop pedal, as I've said. 

You've got nothing man, if the situation weren't so screwed for Lucas it wouldn't be this easy to blow you apart over it.



redstone said:


> For the story, I actually bought the tri tone fascination at the release just to tab and find out how Kaiser was recorded. And I know some people who bought goomy because of that first track.


 Neither Paul or Shawn lied to you or anyone you know. Cool story bro.


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## GoldDragon (Dec 22, 2014)

The human capo was cool and funny.


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## redstone (Dec 22, 2014)

Darknut said:


> Neither Paul or Shawn lied to you or anyone you know. Cool story bro.



You know very well that the goomy track is an intentional way to make people talk about his album and sell more. It's a shred album after all, people buy it just when there is crazy legit stuff to learn inside. Many people couldn't know it was a trick at the release, it's not innocent. I don't see a big difference with Lucas video, you're blowing things out of proportions.

It's the same old trick to sell more concert tickets. Most tech death and shred fans are coming to see how it's played. On stage, Ron Thal used to hide his most expected parts. So basically, "I know you came to see me playing that thing but I'll hide most of it and you'll have to come back again, and again. Thanks for financing my albums." It's another type of scam. Yeah I know Ron Thal is the real deal etc etc, but it's still a scam, and no one cares.


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## isispelican (Dec 22, 2014)

Something that a lot of people don't really get imo is that all this commotion is only about their fame. Nobody cares if you can't play your own stuff or if you fake your guitar videos, you're absolutely free to do so. BUT, if your supposed playing ability is the main reason for your popularity and hype (e.g. HAARP) and you've got average players or non musicians buying into it and getting you fame because of your skills, then I and a alot of people I guess see a problem with that and it needs to be pointed out.


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## Darknut (Dec 22, 2014)

redstone said:


> You know very well that the goomy track is an intentional way to make people talk about his album and sell more. It's a shred album after all, people buy it just when there is crazy legit stuff to learn inside. Many people couldn't know it was a trick at the release, it's not innocent. I don't see a big difference with Lucas video, you're blowing things out of proportions.
> 
> It's the same old trick to sell more concert tickets. Most tech death and shred fans are coming to see how it's played. On stage, Ron Thal used to hide his most expected parts. So basically, "I know you came to see me playing that thing but I'll hide most of it and you'll have to come back again, and again. Thanks for financing my albums." It's another type of scam. Yeah I know Ron Thal is the real deal etc etc, but it's still a scam, and no one cares.


You can keep trying to draw parallels in this situation all you want but it wont help you, because you'll find that all the musicians you keep bringing up actually have standards as human beings, which is what sets them apart from people like Lucas. 

All of the guys you mention do clinics where they play right in front of people, one on one, with and without backing tracks etc, exhibiting their entire musical catalog up til that point and leaving it open for questions, answering said questions at clinics honestly because they respect that the fans care about their music, and that fans will want to know how they did things, spanning from what techniques they use to what gear they use, etc. They maintain transparency when confronted about their music ways, and they provide opportunities for people to ask questions and set the record straight. That is the difference between the real deal, and Lucas.

As far as your other angle about scheming people with marketing ploys, Paul Gilbert can't help it if someone listened to his music for the first time and randomly wondered if he had blonde hair. People will always assume weird shit about bands and then get let down over it, even though it is stupid for them to have assumed it in the first place. It isn't stupid for someone to assume you are good at guitar if you are a guitarist in a tech death band, and you deny up and down that your recordings are edited. But if someone went to Paul's clinic and said "hey i thought you had blonde hair you jerk! what a rip off!" I highly doubt Paul would be clamoring for ways to convince the fan he still has blonde hair for some reason... 

Another difference is that everyone buys Paul and Shawn's shit because they know they can play over 90% of anything they record, because they have standards and transparency as musicians and have done clinics to prove their playing ability in general. 90% of the stuff Lucas writes he can't play, and he doesn't even attempt at learning it until his exbandmates exposes him. Lucas' music largely if not solely depends on this playing style he can't replicate live, where as the examples you gave with Paul and Shawn are a mere fraction of their entire career. And if you took away all of the stuff in Paul's career that relied on recording methods he can't replicate live, he would still have an infinite amount of fans based off what he can do otherwise. Lucas can not say the same.

The number of musicians you are throwing under the bus to prove your point is getting nauseating.


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## RevDrucifer (Dec 22, 2014)

I decided to check out some live ROS vids to see if they really could pull these parts off live....after sorting through a bunch where I couldn't hear shit but kick drums and mush, I found this one-

http://youtu.be/EubEb73l-B0

Maybe these Bose speakers I'm listening on really suck, but to me, 95% of those sweeps he went for, I didn't hear shit. He hits all the main notes and the chord stuff, but it looks/sounds like he's just miming a sweep and landing on the last note of it.


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## stevexc (Dec 22, 2014)

Funnily enough, his guitar actually sounds like a guitar in that video... not at all like in this video in the slightest.


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## redstone (Dec 23, 2014)

@darknut

Alright. We're going to talk about it after he proved his ability to play his tracks properly. I have no doubt it is within his abilities because it is within mine to know it.

And about the douchebag hunts, I think it is not reasonable to expect someone who write that type of music to be super humble. It's obvious that the composer will be cocky , that's part of the RoS creative process.


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## Andromalia (Dec 23, 2014)

GoldDragon said:


> This is worse than lip syncing because at least pop artists who lip sync live were able to capture the performance in the studio








Nothing really new under the sun.


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## Darknut (Dec 23, 2014)

redstone said:


> @darknut
> 
> Alright. We're going to talk about it after he proved his ability to play his tracks properly. I have no doubt it is within his abilities because it is within mine to know it.
> 
> And about the douchebag hunts, I think it is not reasonable to expect someone who write that type of music to be super humble. It's obvious that the composer will be cocky , that's part of the RoS creative process.


*If he proves his ability. Yeah, I'm sure we would talk about it. I've never said anywhere in this thread that the things he writes can't be played by others. I find what you said earlier about his shred being 'basic' to be quite convenient for me in this case. If his style isn't impossible, why doesn't he nail it live and in the studio himself? I'm merely pointing out that so far, he has been proven to not have played the tracks on record, he has been proven to not yet know his parts to the songs, he has been proven of lying about his recording methods, and he hasn't made an effort to be honest to his fans and tell the truth about any of it.

Yngwie is a kind of a douche in my eyes but he rips hell for the world to see and leaves no question to his abilities, and his music is freaking awesome, which is why he is loved by fans around the world, and its why I love him.


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## GunpointMetal (Dec 23, 2014)

redstone said:


> @darknut
> 
> Alright. We're going to talk about it after he proved his ability to play his tracks properly. I have no doubt it is within his abilities because it is within mine to know it.
> 
> And about the douchebag hunts, I think it is not reasonable to expect someone who write that type of music to be super humble. It's obvious that the composer will be cocky , that's part of the RoS creative process.



Writing music like that gives you a right to be a cocky douche? As part of the "process"?


Weird.


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## VinnyShredz (Dec 23, 2014)

GunpointMetal said:


> Writing music like that gives you a right to be a cocky douche? As part of the "process"?
> 
> 
> Weird.


 + 1


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## GoldDragon (Dec 23, 2014)

What is with the post-it notes they taped to their guitar neck?


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## RevDrucifer (Dec 23, 2014)

redstone said:


> @darknut
> 
> Alright. We're going to talk about it after he proved his ability to play his tracks properly. I have no doubt it is within his abilities because it is within mine to know it.
> 
> And about the douchebag hunts, I think it is not reasonable to expect someone who write that type of music to be super humble. It's obvious that the composer will be cocky , that's part of the RoS creative process.



I've still yet to see any vids of this guy, un-edited or untouched, that clearly display his playing. Those 300BPM vids are NOT raw tracks, those have obviously been altered. The only vid I've seen raw playing on is the vid I posted where he misses 95% of those sweeps.

And there's no need to be cocky about ....ing ANYTHING. Period. Doesn't matter if we're talking music or anything else. There's no damn need for it, from anyone. It's a disgusting human trait, there's NOTHING admirable in that.


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## RustInPeace (Dec 23, 2014)

GoldDragon said:


> What is with the post-it notes they taped to their guitar neck?



His mom telling him to clean up his room


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## GiveUpGuitar (Dec 23, 2014)

stevexc said:


> Funnily enough, his guitar actually sounds like a guitar in that video... not at all like in this video in the slightest.



Ok am I crazy or is half of that video sped up? No human moves that rigidly. If someone confirmed that video was 100% organic, my face would implode. Also, puns.

Edit: Just the play through part. His advice about practice isn't actually that bad.


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## Blood Tempest (Dec 23, 2014)

7 pages later and I'm just like:





The more people keep talking about this band and the hatred/love for Lucas Mann, the more exposure they get. No such thing as bad press, I suppose. "Core" kids are still gonna listen to these albums for the br00tz and think it's incredible regardless of musicianship. I think all their material is pretty much unlistenable, but that's just my opinion. If people haven't accepted that this guy is essentially a composer with studio magic, then that's on them. This whole thing is very tired. And, in case I need to clarify, I don't like RoS in the slightest.


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## Deathspell Omega (Dec 23, 2014)

RevDrucifer said:


> I've still yet to see any vids of this guy, un-edited or untouched, that clearly display his playing. Those 300BPM vids are NOT raw tracks, those have obviously been altered. The only vid I've seen raw playing on is the vid I posted where he misses 95% of those sweeps.
> 
> And there's no need to be cocky about ....ing ANYTHING. Period. Doesn't matter if we're talking music or anything else. There's no damn need for it, from anyone. It's a disgusting human trait, there's NOTHING admirable in that.



 Exactly. A GREAT musician doesn`t really need to be cocky. He lets the music and the performance do the talking. A guy like Shawn Lane for example was very humble. If someone is being cocky, but cannot back it up, what``s left ? Insecurity and immaturity a.k.a. Lucas (no)Mann.


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## starslight (Dec 23, 2014)

RevDrucifer said:


> I decided to check out some live ROS vids to see if they really could pull these parts off live....after sorting through a bunch where I couldn't hear shit but kick drums and mush, I found this one-
> 
> http://youtu.be/EubEb73l-B0
> 
> Maybe these Bose speakers I'm listening on really suck, but to me, 95% of those sweeps he went for, I didn't hear shit. He hits all the main notes and the chord stuff, but it looks/sounds like he's just miming a sweep and landing on the last note of it.



Joel's very good in that clip. I hope he puts this behind him and makes some good music.


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## Darknut (Dec 23, 2014)

Deathspell Omega said:


> Exactly. A GREAT musician doesn`t really need to be cocky. He lets the music and the performance do the talking. A guy like Shawn Lane for example was very humble. If someone is being cocky, but cannot back it up, what``s left ? Insecurity and immaturity a.k.a. Lucas (no)Mann.


I don't mind it when a good musician walks a fine line of arrogance, or I guess I could say confidence. Behavior that is reminiscent of guys like vai or yngwie etc. Its a preference of mine but I like seeing guys go up on stage and be sure of themselves, idk. Your post really does apply to this situation though, so I can't say much to the contrary here. Lucas' behavior isn't very comparable to that of vai or ynwgie at all. I really hate to even have to use names like vai or gilbert in the same thread talking about lucas. I think it is kind of crazy that they got brought up under lucas' heat in the first place.


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## asher (Dec 23, 2014)

Being confident and sure of yourself is a far cry from being cocky. One does not necessarily follow the other.


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## Chi (Dec 23, 2014)

There's a difference between being confident/cocky and just outright douchey.


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## MikeH (Dec 23, 2014)

redstone said:


> And about the douchebag hunts, I think it is not reasonable to expect someone who write that type of music to be super humble. It's obvious that the composer will be cocky , that's part of the RoS creative process.



Watch interviews with any of the famous shred virtuosos. Jason Becker, Steve Vai, Paul Gilbert, Guthrie Govan, Yngwi.well, not so much Yngwie. But regardless, 99% of them are the most humble, down to earth guys around. Your argument holds no water. There's no place in being cocky, which is modest in this guy's case. To me, he's a full blown asshat.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 23, 2014)




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## redstone (Dec 23, 2014)

GunpointMetal said:


> Writing music like that gives you a right to be a cocky douche? As part of the "process"?
> 
> Weird.



It's not the point. I just say : don't expect him to compose brutal tech death that sounds like video games and says humans are shit die die you weak humans and be Shawn Lane 2.0. That's all.

The 300bpm and scorched videos are legit. And 8th triplets at 300bpm = 16ths at 225bpm. It's not superfast.

Ok I move on, merry christmas guys


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 23, 2014)

MikeH said:


> Watch interviews with any of the famous shred virtuosos. Jason Becker, Steve Vai, Paul Gilbert, Guthrie Govan, Yngwi&#8230;.well, not so much Yngwie. But regardless, 99% of them are the most humble, down to earth guys around. Your argument holds no water. There's no place in being cocky, which is modest in this guy's case. To me, he's a full blown asshat.


To go along with redstone, I write pretty technical music (tech death), and I'm an arrogant spick about it because all the other local players around me suck. So I've kind of earned bragging rights. (Of course, I'd never brag here online because I know many of the players on here are WAY better than me.)

But first, a little announcement...


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## coreysMonster (Dec 24, 2014)

I had no idea who these guys were (I only knew of that ridiculous Kickstarter video) and decided to check them out.

Not gonna lie, their guitarist may be a douche, but I'm ignoring that because this shit is freaking phenomenal.


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## loqtrall (Dec 24, 2014)

redstone said:


> It's not the point. I just say : don't expect him to compose brutal tech death that sounds like video games and says humans are shit die die you weak humans and be Shawn Lane 2.0. That's all.



That is *not* a good trait to have for a musician.

See: Michael Keene and Al Mu'Min, and how both of their bands are falling apart because of them being controlling douches. Though, Keene is capable of playing what he writes, but his band has 16 former members and now Keene is the sole member of The Faceless (my guess, because he's a douchenozzle). As for Al Mu'Min and The HAARP Machine, that was just doomed from the start because of his inability to play what he writes. Seems RoS is headed in the same direction.


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## MikeH (Dec 24, 2014)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> To go along with redstone, I write pretty technical music (tech death), and I'm an arrogant spick about it because all the other local players around me suck. So I've kind of earned bragging rights. *(Of course, I'd never brag here online because I know many of the players on here are WAY better than me.)*








You just bragged saying everyone in your area sucks. Online.


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## Helstormau (Dec 24, 2014)

RevDrucifer said:


> I decided to check out some live ROS vids to see if they really could pull these parts off live....after sorting through a bunch where I couldn't hear shit but kick drums and mush, I found this one-
> 
> http://youtu.be/EubEb73l-B0
> 
> Maybe these Bose speakers I'm listening on really suck, but to me, 95% of those sweeps he went for, I didn't hear shit. He hits all the main notes and the chord stuff, but it looks/sounds like he's just miming a sweep and landing on the last note of it.



Bleh, that was painful to watch. Sh_i_t sounds so sloppy


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 24, 2014)

MikeH said:


> You just bragged saying everyone in your area sucks. Online.


I was talking about versus like other online players, dude... -.- Don't try to twist my words.

(And everyone in my area does suck.)


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## loqtrall (Dec 24, 2014)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> (And everyone in my area does suck.)



You should move where I live. You and I would be Gods.

Actually, I don't think my city has a music scene.

At all.

None.

...I guess being the best in a room of losers isn't something to brag about .-.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 24, 2014)

loqtrall said:


> You should move where I live. You and I would be Gods.


You can be a god.

I just want to be Emperor Guillotine - ruler of the planet Gargoyle.


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## Xaios (Dec 24, 2014)

MikeH said:


> You just bragged saying everyone in your area sucks. Online.



In fairness, maybe his scene is dominated by mid-2000s emo.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 24, 2014)

Xaios said:


> In fairness, maybe his scene is dominated by mid-2000s emo.


Naw, man. Just old blues players who have been playing for "20+ years" but are stuck in their ignorance of only knowing 3 basic chords (G, C, D...maybe an E-chord if you're lucky) and don't know how to even restring their own guitars.


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## Jackzaa (Dec 24, 2014)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Naw, man. Just old blues players who have been playing for "20+ years" but are stuck in their ignorance of only knowing 3 basic chords (G, C, D...maybe an E-chord if you're lucky) and don't know how to even restring their own guitars.



I'm jealous. I live in the same town as Sam Bell, so even on a local scale my guitar skills get wrecked.

OT, though, Lucas Mann is probably among my most hated people ever. Don't think he's really done enough to warrant that, yet I find every aspect of him totally offensive. Poor ROS band members.


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## GoldDragon (Dec 24, 2014)

MikeH said:


> You just bragged saying everyone in your area sucks. Online.



Its what they call a "humble brag".


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 24, 2014)

GoldDragon said:


> Its what they call a "humble brag".


Seems like no one can get sarcasm on here at all.

Back on topic.


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## MikeH (Dec 24, 2014)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> I was talking about versus like other online players, dude... -.- Don't try to twist my words.
> 
> (And everyone in my area does suck.)



Still absolutely egotistical of you. You've not heard every player in your area. I'm sure there are some older guys who don't play out who can absolutely rip. And even if there isn't, what's the point in being a dick to everyone because you're better at something than they are?


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 24, 2014)

MikeH said:


> Still absolutely egotistical of you. You've not heard every player in your area. I'm sure there are some older guys who don't play out who can absolutely rip. And even if there isn't, what's the point in being a dick to everyone because you're better at something than they are?


Dude, Mike, you're the one being a dick. You keep intentionally diverging off-topic because you're not good with sarcasm online. And now you constantly have to stir the pot and can't just let it go. Dude...LET IT GO. And grow a sense of humor. It'll take you further online.


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## KFW (Dec 24, 2014)

There wasn't really anything in your post that indicated it was sarcasm.


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## ittoa666 (Dec 24, 2014)

Back on topic since I'm so late....I'm glad to see that Lucas finally got legitimately called out for his crap. Admittedly, I've never been an RoS fan, but I knew this Joel dude could play pretty well. Hope he finds a good band.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 24, 2014)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> But first, a little announcement...


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## RevDrucifer (Dec 26, 2014)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> To go along with redstone, I write pretty technical music (tech death), and I'm an arrogant spick about it because all the other local players around me suck. So I've kind of earned bragging rights. (Of course, I'd never brag here online because I know many of the players on here are WAY better than me.)
> 
> But first, a little announcement...




"I'm an asshole because I write music that 0.3% of the world's population enjoys."


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## Lifestalker (Dec 26, 2014)

Off topic:

Emperior, I seen you mentioned in a thread that you play/write tech death(maybe this one?). Was curious if you had any vids or music posted anywhere?


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## BrailleDecibel (Dec 26, 2014)

You know, this little argument is actually a refreshing change from what's been going on for the rest of the thread...oh wait, tech-death dude thinks everyone else around him sucks because they can't weedily-weedily as fast as he does, reacts poorly when people call him out on his display of ego. Nevermind, business as usual.


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## Lifestalker (Dec 26, 2014)

BrailleDecibel said:


> You know, this little argument is actually a refreshing change from what's been going on for the rest of the thread...oh wait, tech-death dude thinks everyone else around him sucks because they can't weedily-weedily as fast as he does, reacts poorly when people call him out on his display of ego. Nevermind, business as usual.



Not directed at you specifically, but I wasn't trying to take a stab at his ego. Everyone has an ego and that's okay with me.

He's a fellow NC member and I'm interested in hearing some tunes if he has any. Maybe I should have looked in the "Post your band/website/etc" thread first.

Carry on fellas! *takes a bow*


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## BrailleDecibel (Dec 26, 2014)

I understand ya there...and after posting that, I realize that it may be taken as more of an offensive thing than was initially intended, I was just making a cheap Lucas Mann joke, which has already been going on too much in this thread, myself included. He may be a douche who tries to pass off computer programming as tech-death, but it's not like he's going around kicking puppies or robbing banks or something.


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## Jlang (Dec 26, 2014)

Sooooooo.. It looks like Miles from Aenimus is taking over guitar duties... The kid absolutely shreds, but I don't know why he would wan't THIS publicity.


https://www.facebook.com/RingsofSaturnband?fref=nf


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## BIG ND SWEATY (Dec 26, 2014)

probably because a paycheck is a paycheck no matter who you're playing with. that dude ....ing killed the song though


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 27, 2014)

I was just trying my best Lucas Mann impersonation and being sarcastic on here, but damn if you all are really going to take things way to far, not let it go, and then act all butthurt over my comment and act all butthurt because you are the ones who can't let it go, then I guess I'm out. 

This was a nice forum, but some of its members needs too learn how to take a joke and need to stop their hypocrisy of calling other members dicks when they themselves are the ones acting like dicks. You all ruin the fun for the rest of us.


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## Eptaceros (Dec 27, 2014)

hahaha, blames his own butthurt on other people's butthurt (which nobody really was, everyone was just calling him out). what a little shit.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 27, 2014)

Plot twist: I'm secretly Lucas Mann.

Seriously though, I tried to drop it, but you guys just immaturely refuse to let things go. Take it to the YouTube comments section. And now I'm out of this thread.


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## Eptaceros (Dec 27, 2014)

I thought you deuce'd outta here. Every time you come in here and talk about it, you're not dropping it.

At this point, you've backpedaled so far it's ridiculous. You could've recognized how much of a douche you were right off the bat and everything would be a-okay. Putting your words under the guise of sarcasm, blaming others for breathing air into your words, and announcing your departure from a non-physical location--all of those things scream immaturity.


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## GoldDragon (Dec 27, 2014)

Eptaceros said:


> I thought you deuce'd outta here. Every time you come in here and talk about it, you're not dropping it.
> 
> At this point, you've backpedaled so far it's ridiculous. You could've recognized how much of a douche you were right off the bat and everything would be a-okay. Putting your words under the guise of sarcasm, blaming others for breathing air into your words, and announcing your departure from a non-physical location--all of those things scream immaturity.



And neg repping everyone on his way out. Classic.


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## blaaargh (Dec 28, 2014)

He literally just copy pasted that from a neg rep someone else left him. Also in the forum rules it says "Proclamations of "I'm never coming back!", or "I'm out of here!", and various posts to that effect are an instant perma-ban. If you don't want to be here, we don't want you here." I'm not sure if he was talking about just this thread or the forum in general, but from that first post where he said that it seemed more like the latter. Can we get a mod's opinion on this?


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## spawnofthesith (Dec 28, 2014)

There hasn't been a single non butthurt post in this thread


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## Emperor Guillotine (Dec 28, 2014)

GoldDragon said:


> And neg repping everyone on his way out. Classic.



WAIT...WAIT...WHAT???

Guys, in case you have not noticed, and I'm sure many of you have not because you're so caught up in your misconstrued bandwagon hate-fest, I have ALWAYS signed rep in the past. ALWAYS. I didn't leave any of you any rep so don't you dare be blaming this shit on me. (I actually forgot about the rep feature on here until I went into the "Holidays" thread on here and saw what everyone was doing.) I will not stand for assholes like you sitting there behind your keyboards with ZERO scraps of evidence trying to damage my reputation by outright lying to whip each other into a frenzy.

You all seriously need to stop your immature little bandwagon hate-fest and get this thread back on topic.


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## rapterr15 (Dec 28, 2014)

Yea seriously people. EG's original post that got this shitstorm started was a bit ambiguous as to whether he was serious or not, but I assumed he was joking as I tend to give people on this site the benefit of the doubt since most seem to be pretty cool people. He then went on to claim he was joking after people felt inclined to call him out, so just let it rest. This back and forth jab-poking has hijacked the thread.


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## The Hiryuu (Dec 28, 2014)

Yeah, there's no need to gang up on EG for being a dick. Let's get back to ganging up on Lucas Mann for being a dick.


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## GoldDragon (Dec 28, 2014)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> WAIT...WAIT...WHAT???
> 
> Guys, in case you have not noticed, and I'm sure many of you have not because you're so caught up in your misconstrued bandwagon hate-fest, I have ALWAYS signed rep in the past. ALWAYS. I didn't leave any of you any rep so don't you dare be blaming this shit on me. (I actually forgot about the rep feature on here until I went into the "Holidays" thread on here and saw what everyone was doing.) I will not stand for assholes like you sitting there behind your keyboards with ZERO scraps of evidence trying to damage my reputation by outright lying to whip each other into a frenzy.
> 
> You all seriously need to stop your immature little bandwagon hate-fest and get this thread back on topic.



If not you, then who?


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## asher (Dec 28, 2014)

Dragging rep out like this is a fast pass to bannination, guys. Not worth it. We should follow Hiryuu's advice and go back to group slagging Lucas


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## Zado (Dec 28, 2014)

....and those inlays suck too.


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## Zalbu (Dec 28, 2014)

Internet e-peen measuring tools: Serious Business


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## asher (Dec 28, 2014)

Zalbu said:


> Internet e-peen measuring tools: Serious Business



http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/286077-holiday-rep-thread-4-0-a.html


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## Zalbu (Dec 28, 2014)

asher said:


> http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/off-topic/286077-holiday-rep-thread-4-0-a.html


But... why?


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## asher (Dec 28, 2014)

E-PEEN DAMMIT

also community hugs and stuff.


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## Captain Butterscotch (Dec 28, 2014)

Did the YouTube comment section leak into SS.org? What the hell is happening to this place?


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## JP Universe (Dec 28, 2014)

Thread took an interesting turn... 

Carry on


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## Alex Kenivel (Dec 29, 2014)




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## RevDrucifer (Dec 30, 2014)

"Waaaahhhhhhhh I called myself an asshole and everyone agreed. Waaaaaaaahhhhhhh"

(Howard Stern/Artie Lange fans will get this)





> Man, you guys are really giving the guy a hard time. He tried diffusing things, but you just refuse to drop it. Immature.



Whoever wrote this while trying to neg rep me, you gave me a positive rep. 

That was the first time I saw my reps list, also found I got neg rep'd for dissing Ocarina or whatever that band's name is and was told that "my cliched metal isn't as cool as I think it is"....then another guy neg rep'd me for saying the prosecution in Randy Blythe's manslaughter case could go .... themselves.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Dec 30, 2014)

Man, this thread...


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## asher (Dec 30, 2014)

omg


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## in-pursuit (Jan 2, 2015)

posting in ROS appreciation thread.


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## BucketheadRules (Jan 2, 2015)

spawnofthesith said:


> There hasn't been a single non butthurt post in this thread



I'm gonna try:

As someone who has never listened to Rings of Saturn and doesn't care about ever doing so, all I can say for this whole situation is:


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## TelegramSam (Jan 3, 2015)

BucketheadRules said:


> someone who has never listened to Rings of Saturn and doesn't care about ever doing so



Glad I'm not the only one


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## BuckarooBanzai (Jan 3, 2015)

Lucas not being able to play his own material is like not being able to make chicken salad from chicken sh!t... sure, it's insanely difficult and it'd be impressive if you did, but _why would you ever want to in the first place?_ This band is the reason that people like my mother refer to heavy music as 'noise' in a pejorative context. Unmelodic meedly-core simply has no place in my musical repertoire, sorry.

Inb4 "well that's just your OPINION man!"


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## TelegramSam (Jan 3, 2015)

Mo Jiggity said:


> Lucas not being able to play his own material is like not being able to make chicken salad from chicken sh!t... sure, it's insanely difficult and it'd be impressive if you did, but _why would you ever want to in the first place?_ This band is the reason that people like my mother refer to heavy music as 'noise' in a pejorative context. Unmelodic meedly-core simply has no place in my musical repertoire, sorry.
> 
> Inb4 "well that's just your OPINION man!"



For ROS fans it's disappointing when they go to see new material live after enjoying an album and find that because of one member's apathy they will go home without hearing or seeing anything they wanted to. Presumably ROS fans want to see the band members pull of the crazy technical stuff live, so it sucks for them when it doesn't happen.


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## bce5150 (Jan 3, 2015)

EDIT : Don't want to be involved ... even if I do think my original comment was pretty funny.


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## bulb (Jan 8, 2015)

The way I see it, either Adnan is lying or Jay is lying...OR BOTH!


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## Darknut (Jan 8, 2015)

bulb said:


> The way I see it, either Adnan is lying or Jay is lying...OR BOTH!





..are you serial?


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## keJ (Jan 8, 2015)

Xaios said:


> In fairness, maybe his scene is dominated by mid-2000s emo.



Better than a scene that is dominated by country and classicl rock/metal coverbands.


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## Splenetic (Jan 8, 2015)

Not really


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## gujukal (Jan 9, 2015)

Recording note by note or at half speed happens all the time in more technical metal music. But most of the time the player actually can play it but they just want the recording to sound as perfect as possible, or they learn it to 100% after they've recorded it. The best way is of course to learn it 100% first then record it but its not always that you have time before its gonna release.

But Lucas Mann seems like a total noob when he doesn't even wanna learn the shit because its way over his skill level, why not just admit that u cant play it so people are not wondering why u dont play your latest album live..


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## DLG (Jan 9, 2015)

gujukal said:


> Recording note by note or at half speed happens all the time in more technical metal music



maybe in the last 5 years. 

that's why there are so many more technical bands now then there ever were. Back in the 80s and 90s if you wanted to be super technical and have it sound tight, you had to put the work in.


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## chopeth (Jan 9, 2015)

gujukal said:


> Recording note by note or at half speed happens all the time in more technical metal music. But most of the time the player actually can play it but they just want the recording to sound as perfect as possible, or they learn it to 100% after they've recorded it. The best way is of course to learn it 100% first then record it but its not always that you have time before its gonna release.
> 
> But Lucas Mann seems like a total noob when he doesn't even wanna learn the shit because its way over his skill level, why not just admit that u cant play it so people are not wondering why u dont play your latest album live..



What!? really? I had no idea. I hope my favourite tech bands don't follow that trend, I mean Obscura, Necrophagist, Nile, Psychoptric, SoP, Origin, Dying Fetus, Gorod... I would be very disappointed to know these guys do that kind of "cheating" imo.


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## amberawakening (Jan 9, 2015)

chopeth said:


> What!? really? I had no idea. I hope my favourite tech bands don't follow that trend, I mean Obscura, Necrophagist, Nile, Psychoptric, SoP, Origin, Dying Fetus, Gorod... I would be very disappointed to know these guys do that kind of "cheating" imo.



We all already know that Dying Fetus records their songs in quarter-time with down-tuned banjos.

John also auto-tunes his voice.

EDIT - Do you listen to The Faceless? If not, they would make a very solid addition to your already badass list of bands there.


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## DLG (Jan 9, 2015)

can we just take a moment to appreciate the fact that this album was recorded entirely to tape on a tascam four track ministudio?


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## anomynous (Jan 9, 2015)

Has Mann tried to deny this yet?


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## ArchonicYordi (Jan 9, 2015)

chopeth said:


> What!? really? I had no idea. I hope my favourite tech bands don't follow that trend, I mean Obscura, Necrophagist, Nile, Psychoptric, SoP, Origin, Dying Fetus, Gorod... I would be very disappointed to know these guys do that kind of "cheating" imo.


Lol, you just named most of my favorite bands!


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## Demiurge (Jan 9, 2015)

anomynous said:


> Has Mann tried to demy this yet?



Not to sound like a curmudgeon, but there's a lot of "technical" metal out there just sounds like artlessly stitched-together sequences of chugs and widdlies. This band isn't terribly different. In a niche genre- hell, metal in general- a band has to do something to set themselves apart. As much as I dislike the "haters are followers/controversy is attention" mentality, the controversy this band courts is freaking gold. Lucas Mann would be a fool to quash it.


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## Nats (Jan 9, 2015)

bulb said:


> The way I see it, either Adnan is lying or Jay is lying...OR BOTH!


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## SeditiousDissent (Jan 9, 2015)

Who the fvck are Rings of Saturn?


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## ArchonicYordi (Jan 9, 2015)

^Hahahaha, thats perfect!!


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 9, 2015)

Why do we talk so much about bands and artists we supposedly don't like? I know very little about Lucas Mann aside from the fact that that video he posted forever ago was very obviously MIDI and that he wanted ppl to believe it was a guitar.

Never really liked the band whether I thought they really played the music or not...

After that thought I'm not really left with much to discuss...


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## Malkav (Jan 10, 2015)

Just to add to all of the beating of a dead horse that is going on 

I took the time to watch some RoS vids of them playing live, like the one posted above, musical tastes aside all I can say is that both of those guitarist's vibratos are total total shit, I don't understand why people skip the part where they make notes sound good and in tune before piling on more notes but it always makes them sound amateur.


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## DarkWolfXV (Jan 10, 2015)

amberawakening said:


> John also auto-tunes his voice.



I wonder how auto-tuned growls would sound, that could be an interesting concept


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## GoldDragon (Jan 10, 2015)

DarkWolfXV said:


> I wonder how auto-tuned growls would sound, that could be an interesting concept



Oh hell yeah. Lets autotune them and use melodyne to create melodies.


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## BucketheadRules (Jan 10, 2015)

Rings of Saturn just posted this on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152885069478463

I think it's better than everything they've ever done previously.


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## Darknut (Jan 10, 2015)

BucketheadRules said:


> Rings of Saturn just posted this on Facebook.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152885069478463
> 
> I think it's better than everything they've ever done previously.



I saw the comments first thing and just closed it out. Lol


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## CaptainD00M (Jan 11, 2015)

DLG said:


> can we just take a moment to appreciate the fact that this album was recorded entirely to tape on a tascam four track ministudio?




I took that moment.

Well 5 actually, but anyway.

I guess its the downside of digital wizardry, I remember the Ozric Tentacles steadfastly refusing to use Digital for years until their newest album for a number of reasons this kind of thing being one of them.

Anyway, lets face it, it was going to happen at some point. Its like the whole Vinny Vincent thing all over again.


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