# Mesa? Engl? Post suggestions for best low wattage hi gain tube amp.



## TedintheShed (Jul 19, 2014)

Looking for 25 watt or less. Whatcha like??


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## jclogston (Jul 19, 2014)

Engl Ironball, only b/c it's what I have. I tried the Mesa Mini Rectifier and it's still very loud even at the 10W setting and you need to push it for it to sound good...

Jeff


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Jul 19, 2014)

5150III mini. The difference in volume from 25 to 50 watts is 2db at most, so I wouldn't bother getting a tiny head and sacrificing options/more channels  

Of those two, I'd look more into the ENGL Ironball. I've tried the Mini Rectifier and it needs to be pushed to a fairly substantial volume before it sounds good.


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## oracles (Jul 19, 2014)

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> 5150III mini. The difference in volume from 25 to 50 watts is 2db at most, so I wouldn't bother getting a tiny head and sacrificing options/more channels
> 
> Of those two, I'd look more into the ENGL Ironball. I've tried the Mini Rectifier and it needs to be pushed to a fairly substantial volume before it sounds good.



Basically, this. I'd definitely suggest the ENGL of the two, but TWAT nailed it.


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## TedintheShed (Jul 19, 2014)

I have a Krank Rev Jr. and I like the tone but I want to get a finer grain to my distortion. I was thinking about a Krankenstein too. Tried Peavy 5150 and 6505+ but the low end seems muddy. How close are the 50TH I minis to those?


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Jul 19, 2014)

The EVH heads are a good bit tighter and more refined than the Peavey models, and don't need to be pushed _nearly_ as hard for a good sound. 

Compared to my friend's 5150 block letter, my 5150III mini is more focused on the highs/higher mids and less "grainy" rather than hurdling low end/low mids around like the Peavey. I love both amps, but I wouldn't go with the Peavey if volume is the main concern.


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## PBGas (Jul 19, 2014)

Mesa Recto-Verb 25! Awesome amp! I love my Racto-verb 25! Sounds great at any volume!


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## protest (Jul 19, 2014)

Are you looking for low volume or just a smaller form factor? If you want low volume skip the Mini Rec. I like that amp a lot, but its loud as balls. If you want something that is just smaller the Mini Rec would work well. Other options would be the 5150 mini, or a Mark IV short head. They're much heavier than a Mini Rec though, if that matters.


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## TedintheShed (Jul 19, 2014)

protest said:


> Are you looking for low volume or just a smaller form factor? If you want low volume skip the Mini Rec. I like that amp a lot, but its loud as balls. If you want something that is just smaller the Mini Rec would work well. Other options would be the 5150 mini, or a Mark IV short head. They're much heavier than a Mini Rec though, if that matters.



I live out in the country so volume isn't a huge concern. I am a retired bassist that likes to hop on the guitar occasionally and wank a bit. (An Agile 625 w/EMGs but I am eyeing one of the Jackson Pro series 7) The 25 watt Krank I have gets frigging too loud but has a built function in the effects loop that acts like an attenuator. Just don't want my ears to bleed.


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## Given To Fly (Jul 19, 2014)

I would go with Mesa Boogie Mini Rectifier, Recto -Verb 25, or the Bogner Atmos. I'm assuming there are no budget constraints too.


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## Underworld (Jul 21, 2014)

jet City JCA22h. If you like the Soldano/over-the-top-Marshall tone, you will love it. Since I got mine I barely play my EVH.


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## TheShreddinHand (Jul 21, 2014)

If you get the EVH III combo amp you can lower the wattage all the way down to 1. Course it's a heavy combo amp, but pretty beneficial to lower the wattage down.


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## cGoEcYk (Jul 21, 2014)

I've tried the Krank Rev Jr. Pro and for the price (I think I got it for around $300) it's not bad. Very loud, cleans stay loud, and very br00t kinds of gain on that thing. 

I owned the Dark Terror for a while and I love the tones on that head. You can cover just about any ground on it, with the higher gain having that hairy Orange sound. Great lead tones (better than rhythm IMO). Too bad it's just single channel!

I'd probably shoot for ENGL/Mesa if price isnt an issue.

I totally dig the mini Rectoverb. My GAS is held back by the fact that you can find a Single Rec Rectoverb head used for about the same price though.


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## Insinfier (Jul 21, 2014)

Used EVH 5150 III W/Footswitch | Tube Guitar Amps Music Go Round Burnsville MN

There's a 5150 III combo here for $999 + shipping.

I think the "power" control is kinda pointless, though. ... I really don't know what a 5150 III would sound like with power tube saturation, if it can even get there.

I also think going after a low watt amp is silly. So if you're buying an amp....

Used PEAVEY 6505+ / FTSWTCH | Tube Guitar Amps | Music Go Round


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Jul 21, 2014)

5150III 50w or ENGL Ironball. I have the latter, and I love the 20-5-1-headphones capability. It sounds stupendous even at 1 watt. It's fully capable of driving a 4x12 cab too at 20 and will shake a room. I love both of those amps and they both sound good at lower volumes. There's always an attenuator option to get for a louder amp as well if it doesn't have a built in power soak.


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## Thaeon (Jul 21, 2014)

Budda Superdrive 18. A little dark, but punchy and sounds like a modded JCM900. Boost it and you'll have everything you need.


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## TheWarAgainstTime (Jul 21, 2014)

I'll also add that the headphone output of the 5150III mini sounds pretty good  certainly not the same as a cab mic'd up or anything, but definitely great for late practice or running into some computer speakers.


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## Insinfier (Jul 21, 2014)

TheWarAgainstTime said:


> I'll also add that the headphone output of the 5150III mini sounds pretty good  certainly not the same as a cab mic'd up or anything, but definitely great for late practice or running into some computer speakers.



I just tried it today with my ATH-M50s/LEs. I wasn't too thrilled, but it was usable. If I had to use it, I would.


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## zimbloth (Jul 21, 2014)

I carry Mesa, ENGL and EVH here, so no bias just opinion:

The Ironball is definitely the best one on the market for metal that sounds killer at low volumes. The Mesa Rectoverb 25 is a close second for me and is more versatile, but its actually pretty loud and isn't as good at bedroom levels as the Ironball. The Mini-Recto is also good but I like the RectoVerb 25's tone better overall (its also about 40% bigger than the Mini-Recto tho).

I have not tried the EVH so no opinion there at this time.


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## Insinfier (Jul 21, 2014)

zimbloth said:


> I carry Mesa, ENGL and EVH here, so no bias just opinion:
> 
> The Ironball is definitely the best one on the market for metal that sounds killer at low volumes. The Mesa Rectoverb 25 is a close second for me and is more versatile, but its actually pretty loud and isn't as good at bedroom levels as the Ironball. The Mini-Recto is also good but I like the RectoVerb 25's tone better overall (its also about 40% bigger than the Mini-Recto tho).
> 
> I have not tried the EVH so no opinion there at this time.



Can you make a short metal demo of the Rectoverb 25 for us?


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Jul 21, 2014)

zimbloth said:


> The Ironball is definitely the best one on the market for metal that sounds killer at low volumes.



Gad dang right


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## aprilia4life (Jul 22, 2014)

zimbloth said:


> I carry Mesa, ENGL and EVH here, so no bias just opinion:
> 
> The Ironball is definitely the best one on the market for metal that sounds killer at low volumes. The Mesa Rectoverb 25 is a close second for me and is more versatile, but its actually pretty loud and isn't as good at bedroom levels as the Ironball. The Mini-Recto is also good but I like the RectoVerb 25's tone better overall (its also about 40% bigger than the Mini-Recto tho).
> 
> I have not tried the EVH so no opinion there at this time.


 
I carry Mesa, ENGL and EVH here, so no bias just opinion:

The EVH 5150 III 50W is definitely the best one on the market for metal that sounds killer at low volumes.

I have not tried the Mesa or ENGL so no opinion there at this time.


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## Shimme (Jul 22, 2014)

+1 on the JCA 22h. God that thing sounds killer, and the lower gain channel is just kickass for rock sounds. Dirt cheap too.

From my understanding the lead channel is actually lifted out of their parent company's (soldano) SLO. Throw in a boost and you're in serial-killer-marshall ecstasy.


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## zimbloth (Jul 22, 2014)

Insinfier said:


> Can you make a short metal demo of the Rectoverb 25 for us?



I would be happy to. I'm sold out of it at the moment, but when I get another in I will make a metal demo for you. The Rectoverb 25 sounds great for metal, much like a Dual Rectifier is, in the right scenario. It just gets there a different way, you know? The ENGL Ironball even when plugged straight in sounds ultra-tight, punchy, and polished like all ENGLs do. The Mesa has that more open, raw, massive sound that has its sweet spot at a louder volume level. 

Both amps are killer, they just accomplish their goal by different methods. The cleans on both are also great, but I would give the nod to the Recto 25 slightly in that department. I would say for 7 or 8-string range though the ENGL is more equipped for that, but the Recto 25 with a boost is definitely sick also.



MAJ Meadows SF said:


> Gad dang right


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## cardinal (Jul 22, 2014)

No reason to focus on wattage, really. If you want good, low-volume high gain tones, just find an amp with a good master volume. For example, IME, the SLO and the newer VH4 have the best out-of-the-box low volume tone out of the amps that I've owned, but either obviously is way more than 25 watts. Fryette amps also have great master volumes, as well a basically anything that boosted with a 808, SD1, etc.


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## zimbloth (Jul 22, 2014)

cardinal said:


> No reason to focus on wattage, really. If you want good, low-volume high gain tones, just find an amp with a good master volume. For example, IME, the SLO and the newer VH4 have the best out-of-the-box low volume tone out of the amps that I've owned, but either obviously is way more than 25 watts. Fryette amps also have great master volumes, as well a basically anything that boosted with a 808, SD1, etc.



All those amps sound good at low volumes relative to other 100W amps, yes, but still not ideal at bedroom/apartment levels. Thats where the ENGL Ironball shines. These are two different issues to me. Basically...

- If someone wants a full power head to use live or in the studio, that also happens to sound good at moderately low levels, absolutely go for one of the amps mentioned above (also any ENGL, Framus, PRS Archon, etc will sound great in this context).

- If someone wants an amp to PRIMARILY use at home, in their apartment, or place where they can't blast consistently, something like the ENGL Ironball or Mesa/Boogie Rectoverb 25 is perfect. Its worth noting these amps can get crazy loud too and can be gigged with, but of course won't have the headroom and power of their full-size breatheren.

I have on many occasions brought these amps home with the idea that they would work with a 1x12 or 2x12 at low volumes. Alas, what seems like low volumes at my shop or rehearsal space ends up actually being way too loud/big for an apartment at 2am. Hence why I have found the need for products like the Ironball, or direct-boxes such as the Mesa CabClone or Two Notes Torpedo into studio monitors/headphones. Or a Kemper/Axe-FX if no real heads are available.


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## Talmaci (Jul 22, 2014)

You can also check out Krankenstein Jr.


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## TedintheShed (Jul 22, 2014)

DELETED-


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## cardinal (Jul 22, 2014)

zimbloth said:


> All those amps sound good at low volumes relative to other 100W amps, yes, but still not ideal at bedroom/apartment levels. Thats where the ENGL Ironball shines. These are two different issues to me. Basically...
> 
> - If someone wants a full power head to use live or in the studio, that also happens to sound good at moderately low levels, absolutely go for one of the amps mentioned above (also any ENGL, Framus, PRS Archon, etc will sound great in this context).
> 
> ...



I've never played the Ironball, so can't comment on that. But I've played the Mini Recto side-by-side with a Multi-watt Triple Recto, going back and forth into the same cab. No matter what volume (whisper, moderate, loud), the Triple Recto sounded fatter, warmer, and all-around better to me. The Mini Recto always sounded smaller and buzzier than the Triple.

Another trick getting big tone at low volumes is to use a 4x12. More speakers, IME, gives a thicker, beefier sound than less speakers. I've never played a 1x12 or 2x12 that (in the room) sounds as big and beefy as a 4x12, despite whatever advertising material you'll find. A 4x12 doesn't have to be loud any more than a 100 amp has to be loud. Just keep the volume down. The only concern with a 4x12 at low volumes is that it still kicks out a ton of bass. So if you have thin walls, you could still really annoy the neighbors with the "thump thump thump" of a 4x12 even at very low volumes. If that's the case, you're best bet IMHO is a modeller solution, like Nick suggests: Kemper, AFX, POD (yes, PODs actually can sound just fine), or a real amp with a simulated speaker cab (Mesa Cab Clone, Two Notes, etc.).


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## Shimme (Jul 22, 2014)

I'll throw in the Laney Ironheart as well, that attenuator(?) is really powerful and it works great if you're looking for stuff in the 5151/2/3 world at low volumes. Again, a really great amp that won't break the bank.


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## TedintheShed (Jul 22, 2014)

Talmaci said:


> You can also check out Krankenstein Jr.




Funny you should say that- I just pulled the trigger on one of them. Should get it next week, I want to compare the distortion to to my Rev Jr-. My version doesn't have an independent clean channel. For a living room warrior, I didn't think it would bother me...but it does.


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## TremontiFan16 (Jul 22, 2014)

Randall diavlo 1-20 watts. Pick whatever suits you best.


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## TedintheShed (Jul 22, 2014)

protest said:


> Are you looking for low volume or just a smaller form factor? If you want low volume skip the Mini Rec. I like that amp a lot, but its loud as balls. If you want something that is just smaller the Mini Rec would work well. Other options would be the 5150 mini, or a Mark IV short head. They're much heavier than a Mini Rec though, if that matters.



Don't need a ton of volume because it isn't leaving my living room. I like to "crank it" but nothing like I used to with my 2400 watt bass rig on stage.


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## TedintheShed (Jul 22, 2014)

Insinfier said:


> Used EVH 5150 III W/Footswitch | Tube Guitar Amps Music Go Round Burnsville MN
> 
> There's a 5150 III combo here for $999 + shipping.
> 
> ...



I shopped the 6505+ for my daughter- and they sound great, but they are friggin' loud. Not a fan of the clean channel either.

TBH, as a kid I worked for a Peavey dealer in the 90's. I didn't like their stuff- made shoddy, as far the the electronic go (cabinets are built like a tank though!) P.A> seemed to sound muddy. So I have a bias against them, I am sure. 

But thanks


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## TedintheShed (Jul 22, 2014)

Underworld said:


> jet City JCA22h. If you like the Soldano/over-the-top-Marshall tone, you will love it. Since I got mine I barely play my EVH.




Thanks.

I tried out the Jet City when I was on a budget before I settle on the Krank. They seemed to like a ballsiness I like, but seemed to be the most versatile of the group. I could get my Zep on with it


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## TedintheShed (Jul 22, 2014)

Thaeon said:


> Budda Superdrive 18. A little dark, but punchy and sounds like a modded JCM900. Boost it and you'll have everything you need.




Huh. never even crossed my mind. I'll check it out!


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## TedintheShed (Jul 22, 2014)

So, when the Krankenstein Jr. comes I am gonna A/B it with my Rev. Jr. From there, I think I am going to take them into Guitar Center and A/B the winner with the ENGL (they have them in stock), they Mesa and the EVH (if they have them). I can';t lie- the Ironball is looking appealing right now.


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## MAJ Meadows SF (Jul 23, 2014)

No shit I demo'd an Ironball for Jon Schaffer of Iced Earth fame, and he is an ENGL user among other awesome amps (customs too), and he had that "Wow WTF" expression hearing it through a 4x12 ENGL XXL and Bogner Cab. HE then grabbed a Les Paul Custom Shop and gave me the same expression. Made me infinitely glad I bought that amp. I run it through a Mesa 1x12 with a C90 Black Shadow speaker which rules for a practice rig.


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## Metaguitarist (Jul 24, 2014)

I have got to call attention to the Blackstar HT-5. Ive played it a lot at GC and really enjoy its sound. Give it a shot!


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## jerm (Jul 24, 2014)

Randall Diavlo RD45H????


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## wheelsdeal (Jul 24, 2014)

I used to own an Orange Jim Root Terror and it was one of the best low wattage amps i have ever tried.It had that british growling mids,thick and articulate and can pretty much play everything,from classic tones to extreme metal.Only piece of gear i regret selling and i am in the process of getting another soon.


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