# Dragonforce play 8 strings!!!



## ohmanthisiscool (Aug 18, 2008)

Title says it, and here is a pic





Yes it is a real picture if you need more ask me.


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## shaneroo (Aug 18, 2008)

should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
for that matter.......
6 strings as well


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## Elysian (Aug 18, 2008)

wonder what sped up solos on 8's sound like?


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## DelfinoPie (Aug 18, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
> for that matter.......
> 6 strings as well


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## wes225 (Aug 18, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
> for that matter.......
> 6 strings as well


thats uber pwnage served by non other than shred god shaney


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 18, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
> for that matter.......
> 6 strings as well



 that was full of win.

I wonder if herman ri was trying to play meshuggah?


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## twiztedchild (Aug 18, 2008)

did they use a 7 string one Inhuman Rampage?


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## ohmanthisiscool (Aug 18, 2008)

know they have used 7's in the past and on the newest album


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## blackout (Aug 18, 2008)

Oh fuck that scares me, i can't really see dragonforce using a low f or even b, which just leaves the possiblility for even higher pitched widdly bollocks...

Doubt they'll record with them anyway.


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## Decipher (Aug 18, 2008)

I'm sure it's not for new material. They're Ibby endorsees, I'm sure they just got them for the hell of it.......


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## Dyingsea (Aug 18, 2008)

They'll still figure out a way to make every song sound the same regardless of number of strings.


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## Mattmc74 (Aug 18, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
> for that matter.......
> 6 strings as well







Wait.............. they play faster than me.


Thats it. I'm getting off the computer now and i'm going to go practice.


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## 70Seven (Aug 18, 2008)

So Herman Li owns a RG228, but I don't think he records or plays live with it.


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## Alex-D33 (Aug 18, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
> for that matter.......
> 6 strings as well


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## zilong (Aug 18, 2008)

Herman'll probably just tune the low 6 strings to E standard, then add high A and D strings.


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## S-O (Aug 18, 2008)

:\ Why do they even keep trying... I will admit, I have the first CD, hell... once upon a time I probably liked it (or some of it).


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## playstopause (Aug 18, 2008)

More Nintendo sounds options I guess.



Meh. 






/bashing.


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## Nats (Aug 18, 2008)

as stated, i'm sure they'd go higher than lower


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## -K4G- (Aug 18, 2008)

ohmanthisiscool said:


> Title says it, and here is a pic
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 He can't even count.


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## Xtremevillan (Aug 18, 2008)

zilong said:


> Herman'll probably just tune the low 6 strings to E standard, then add high A and D strings.



.007 and .005!?


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## Adam (Aug 18, 2008)

zilong said:


> Herman'll probably just tune the low 6 strings to E standard, then add high A and D strings.





Xtremevillan said:


> .007 and .005!?



Not without Garry Goodmans strings, you wont be able to tune to A4 even with the smallest guage at a 27" scale. But with Garry's strings you can get A4 up to a "30 scale. D4 is not yet even achievable at 25.5
" yet, so he wouldn't tune to that, my best guess is B-A if he knows about Garrys strings, and F#-E if he doesen't. Simple as that


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## Shawn (Aug 18, 2008)

No shit. Wow.


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## Elysian (Aug 18, 2008)

zilong said:


> Herman'll probably just tune the low 6 strings to E standard, then add high A and D strings.



how do you figure he'll do that on the 27" scale length that the RG2228 is?


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## Adam (Aug 18, 2008)

Elysian said:


> how do you figure he'll do that on the 27" scale length that the RG2228 is?



Read my post


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## TheHandOfStone (Aug 18, 2008)

twiztedchild said:


> did they use a 7 string one Inhuman Rampage?



Yes they did. You can hear them on the rhythm tracks to "Body Breakdown" and "The Flames Of Youth." There may be others, though. I've hated them for two years (and especially since Guitar Hero), so I haven't listened to this one in awhile.


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## technomancer (Aug 18, 2008)

I'll go along with the general Dragonfarce hate...

however if the STM1 came out as a seven or an eight I'd probably have to buy one...


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## Anthony (Aug 18, 2008)

Holy shit this thread is redundant and immature. C'mon guys, we're better than ultimate-guitar.

I'm really curious to hear Herman use an 8. I'd assume he'd use it differently than the standard djent djent.


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## Rachmaninoff (Aug 18, 2008)

Dyingsea said:


> They'll still figure out a way to make every song sound the same regardless of number of strings.


yeahahahehahaehaw


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## eleven59 (Aug 18, 2008)

I think Dragonforce's music is fun to listen to sometimes, and who says music can't be fun?  They're having a great time, and making a living at it. I'm fucking jealous, and that's the only negative feeling I have towards them


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## bulletbass man (Aug 19, 2008)

Mattmc74 said:


> Wait.............. they play faster than me.
> 
> 
> Thats it. I'm getting off the computer now and i'm going to go practice.


 

They also have protools.......


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## Sebastian (Aug 19, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
> for that matter.......
> 6 strings as well



So true


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## Desecrated (Aug 19, 2008)

I don't like them, but if a power metal band would use an 8-string it would be a win for the erg community, it would have been an epic win if somebody who actually wrote good music would take one up, but every victory counts.


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## ohmanthisiscool (Aug 19, 2008)

^ true true, I'm kidding I like Dragonforce


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## shaneroo (Aug 19, 2008)

bulletbass man said:


> They also have protools.......



haha, and it certainly is a godsend!!


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## noodleplugerine (Aug 19, 2008)

At least their drummer and singer are completely consistent.


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## CrushingAnvil (Aug 19, 2008)

FAIL. Im not really a studioForce Fan to be honest 



shaneroo said:


> haha, and it certainly is a godsend!!




lulz and all the StudioForce Newbs will be all over this crap like shit on velcro..


"omg noe! teyh are bein crap coz dey dont wanna be purfekt all teh tiemz!!11"

 RAWK AWN DRAG0n f0rces!!1


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## arktan (Aug 19, 2008)

Desecrated said:


> I don't like them, but if a power metal band would use an 8-string it would be a win for the erg community, it would have been an epic win if somebody who actually wrote good music would take one up, but every victory counts.



+1

and after all, i've heard bands that are a lot worse than dragonforce!


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## CrushingAnvil (Aug 19, 2008)

Avenged Sevenfold, White Chappel, Suicide Silence...

Pretty much all Deathcore and 'Bitchcore'(as I like to call It) is making me want to blow my fucking brains out.

If its not Metal or Jazz, blues, Classical, Abba...its not epic.

'OMGz Br00tal Breakd0wnz!!!!1'

If Man0waR started using 8 strings Im pretty sure the world would EXPL0D3!!!!1


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## kristallin (Aug 19, 2008)

Why? They can barely handle 6, let alone 8!


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## drezdin (Aug 19, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> haha, and it certainly is a godsend!!





wow!

that was not good


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## Naren (Aug 19, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> haha, and it certainly is a godsend!!




Everything except the guitars seemed okay.  The singer actually seemed pretty consistent and has a pretty good voice--despite singing the same melody in every damn song. The drummer and keyboard player sounded pretty good too.

Dragonforce can play a lot of things I can't, but they do it very very very sloppily and haphazard. And I know they can play the parts a lot cleaner, but they're always doing circus antics and seeing how many tricks they can do.

Not exactly bashing them, but I think that they should focus more on playing the music than running around the stage as fast as they can, jumping up and down, playing with their hands backwards or with their hand under their legs, or any of that other nonsense that would be okay if they could play while doing it.


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## CrushingAnvil (Aug 19, 2008)

Naren said:


> Everything except the guitars seemed okay.  The singer actually seemed pretty consistent and has a pretty good voice--despite singing the same melody in every damn song. The drummer and keyboard player sounded pretty good too.
> 
> Dragonforce can play a lot of things I can't, but they do it very very very sloppily and haphazard. And I know they can play the parts a lot cleaner, but they're always doing circus antics and seeing how many tricks they can do.
> 
> Not exactly bashing them, but I think that they should focus more on playing the music than running around the stage as fast as they can, jumping up and down, playing with their hands backwards or with their hand under their legs, or any of that other nonsense that would be okay if they could play while doing it.



 yup they just Cant do it like Van Halen....at all haha

"EVERYBODY YOU KNOW THIS FUCKIN SONG!!"

"lulzwut? NO? WE CAN'T TELL YOU'RE PLAYING IT SO BADLY!!!1"


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## Stephen (Aug 19, 2008)

Na, its the talented Engineer... not pro tools its self. And they say you can't polish a turd haha.

Aww no, to think i have the same guitar as herman li


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## bulletbass man (Aug 19, 2008)

Stephen said:


> Na, its the talented Engineer... not pro tools its self. And they say you can't polish a turd haha.
> 
> Aww no, to think i have the same guitar as herman li


 

Nah with protools you can definitely polish a turd. Sure the better the engineer the better one can cover up the edits. But quite honestly with protools you can fix anything. The tempo editing stuff is far superior to pretty much any program. The pitch shifting is far better as well. 

It's only downfall is that a mac fast enough for recording applications and protools itself costs quite a pretty penny. More than I can afford.


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## Stephen (Aug 19, 2008)

I know i use pro tools myself haha. I just don't believe in cheating when it comes to recording my music though, if you're not physically able to do it then don't add it haha.


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## arktan (Aug 19, 2008)

Stephen said:


> I know i use pro tools myself haha. I just don't believe in cheating when it comes to recording my music though, if you're not physically able to do it then don't add it haha.



+1 


*that's why arktan hasn't recorded a single note


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## lucasreis (Aug 19, 2008)

Wow, I can´t imagine Dragonfoce with 8 strings. They´re boring with 6 I imagine they will be as boring with 8, I don´t know.

Anyway, I feel bad cause I´m waaaaay worse than these guys. I hope you guys never find my myspace page or I will be flamed for eternity. lol 

ps: and I don´t have pro tools anyway...


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## eleven59 (Aug 19, 2008)

I'd rather see a band that's interesting on stage than one that never makes a mistake


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## Chris (Aug 19, 2008)

ohmanthisiscool said:


> Title says it, and here is a pic
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hooray, he bought a production RG.


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## Justin Bailey (Aug 19, 2008)

eleven59 said:


> I'd rather see a band that's interesting on stage than one that never makes a mistake



I'd rather see a band that concentrates on their music than a band that runs around like a bunch of morons on stage


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## Demeyes (Aug 19, 2008)

eleven59 said:


> I'd rather see a band that's interesting on stage than one that never makes a mistake



Yeah but having seen Dragonforce live, I think they could spend some time at least trying to play their stuff. I would honestly be embarrased at the gig I saw them at if I was playing onstage.

As for them using 8's? I can't see how it would benfit them in any way. Extended range for a band who is notorious(forever-morious!) for playing the same song for their career? I don't see the poin.


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## zilong (Aug 19, 2008)

Elysian said:


> how do you figure he'll do that on the 27" scale length that the RG2228 is?



Truly nothing is impossible for those that sing with the dragons like Herman Li


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## atimoc (Aug 19, 2008)

I think I missed the memo that explains all the Dragonforce hate. I can't say I'm a fan of their music, but I still don't understand why they manage to invoke a shitstorm from fellow musicians on pretty much every discussion forum. As far as I know the band members are pretty laid back people, I'm not sure if they deserve all the insults, no matter how crappy you think their music is


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## ohmanthisiscool (Aug 19, 2008)

^ agreed, but I don't know them personally

and for anyone who cares he did say that the 8 strings were used on this album, for certain instrumental parts. And it seems to me that there are both lower strings, but it could be a low B, high A configuration. But pretty sure its low B and F#


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## Zak1233 (Aug 19, 2008)

yeh to be honest i think its pretty lame how about everyone acts like " OH NOEZ ITZ TEH DRAGOONFORCEZ!!1!!!!!" etc i'd like to see how they'd take it if people were bashing their songs everyday, if you dont like the music thats cool but ther aint really any need to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it...

also where did you get that pic?


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## Jan (Aug 19, 2008)

I know they're generic, a bit cheesy and their every song sounds the same. However, you may call me gay, but once in a while, when I need some music to cheer me up, I listen to a few Dragonforce songs. And guess what? It works! PLUS these people ARE good musicians no matter what you say. Although I agree there PROBABLY is a better way they could use their tallents... So, they're definitely not my favourite band or anything, but why throw crap at them?


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## Rick (Aug 19, 2008)

I would love to see them *try* and use 8s on stage.


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## MattyCakes (Aug 19, 2008)

Rick said:


> I would love to see them *try* and use 8s on stage.



OMGs 8 STRING HOW COULD THEY PLUCK TWO EXTRA STRINGS


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## Rick (Aug 19, 2008)

All I'm saying is it's just a pic. Wow, he's got an 8. OMG!!!!!!!!!


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## Stealthdjentstic (Aug 19, 2008)

atimoc said:


> I think I missed the memo that explains all the Dragonforce hate. I can't say I'm a fan of their music, but I still don't understand why they manage to invoke a shitstorm from fellow musicians on pretty much every discussion forum. As far as I know the band members are pretty laid back people, I'm not sure if they deserve all the insults, no matter how crappy you think their music is



Its just that Sam Titmans always pretending to be drunk


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## shaneroo (Aug 19, 2008)

atimoc said:


> I think I missed the memo that explains all the Dragonforce hate. I can't say I'm a fan of their music, but I still don't understand why they manage to invoke a shitstorm from fellow musicians on pretty much every discussion forum. As far as I know the band members are pretty laid back people, I'm not sure if they deserve all the insults, no matter how crappy you think their music is



i don't hate them on a personal level. they may be nice guys.

what i don't like, and i think many MANY other fellow musicians as well don't like is this.......

what they produce in the studios does not even nearly resemble what they produce live.

hell, everyone fucks up live, that's a given. but, i've seen them play several times live, and i can't even tell you how bad it is. i'd say the drummer is the most solid part of the band. singer isn't too bad either. 

it's a matter of respectability. if i get on stage, and suck hard-core, i'd expect to be made fun of. hell, even if i don't suck, i still expect a bit of down-grading...... but....... if you can't at least come close to what you'd do in the studio in real time.......... don't do it.

that's my take on it.


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## Rick (Aug 19, 2008)

^I totally agree with this post.


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## ChaNce (Aug 19, 2008)

What amuses me is that everyone here is ripping their live show based on a viewing of a single youtube video. 

How many of you have every actually seen DF live? I have. Stood three feet from Li and watched both guitarists absolutely nail every song. And they jumped around like lunatics the whole time. One of the most fun shows I've ever been to.

I'm not defending them, and I'm not a fanboi. Go to their site: they have (or had) vids of them in the studio recording their solos. 

There is plenty of readily available evidence that they can play, and play well. I've never really understood the hate either.

EDIT: Ahh, posted after Shaneroo. Guess I caught them on a good night?


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## blackout (Aug 19, 2008)

You must have caught a very good night cos I've seen quite a few videos and countless complaints from everyone i've ever spoken to about their live show. In fact, that is the first time i've heard a positive comment about the guitarists live. EVER. That *must* mean something.


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## ChaNce (Aug 19, 2008)

blackout said:


> You must have caught a very good night cos I've seen quite a few videos and countless complaints from everyone i've ever spoken to about their live show. In fact, that is the first time i've heard a positive comment about the guitarists live. EVER. That *must* mean something.



I buy that. I saw them at the Meridian in Houston in 2006, small venue.


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## shaneroo (Aug 19, 2008)

ChaNce said:


> What amuses me is that everyone here is ripping their live show based on a viewing of a single youtube video.
> 
> How many of you have every actually seen DF live? I have. Stood three feet from Li and watched both guitarists absolutely nail every song. And they jumped around like lunatics the whole time. One of the most fun shows I've ever been to.
> 
> ...



must have...

dragonforce's front of house guy was our front of house guy towards the end of this last tour we did. ummmm........ i won't say anything else, but i think he shares some of the same feelings i do


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## ChaNce (Aug 19, 2008)

Nice, that would interesting to hear.

BTW, Shaneroo, question about FOH: How much does the sound change show to show for you? Im assuming you are all on ear monitors?


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## Project2501 (Aug 19, 2008)

shaneroo said:


> should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
> for that matter.......
> 6 strings as well



Epic!!


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## shaneroo (Aug 19, 2008)

ChaNce said:


> Nice, that would interesting to hear.
> 
> BTW, Shaneroo, question about FOH: How much does the sound change show to show for you? Im assuming you are all on ear monitors?


depends on the venue of course.
outside gigs are quite unpredictable. with a good sound guy, it should stay somewhat stable.
festivals are tough though, you literally get about a 5 to 15 minute line check, which is not good.

we played with those guys during this last tour. it was quite windy, and technical difficulties were all over the place.


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## WarriorOfMetal (Aug 19, 2008)

different FOH guy than you had at the BPC w/ the unplugged Davis tour? that dude seemed pretty cool, i talked to him for a while


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## bulletbass man (Aug 19, 2008)

Anthony said:


> Holy shit this thread is redundant and immature. C'mon guys, we're better than ultimate-guitar.


 

that's like comparing Jeff Loomis to Herman Li


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## ohmanthisiscool (Aug 19, 2008)

The pic is from a video tour of Li's studio


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## TheAceOfSpades1 (Aug 20, 2008)

Anthony said:


> Holy shit this thread is redundant and immature. C'mon guys, we're better than ultimate-guitar.




Heh, I always kinda wondered why it is that I don't go to those boards very often. That's it though. 

On topic, I can't really see them using 8-strings exclusively so I'm not too worried.


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## Demeyes (Aug 20, 2008)

ChaNce said:


> What amuses me is that everyone here is ripping their live show based on a viewing of a single youtube video.
> 
> How many of you have every actually seen DF live?


I saw them live, and they truly were awful. I mean they looked like they had fun on stage but the guitars were nothing short of sloppy. It was at Graspop 07 and if you check you can find a full video of the set in high quality.
What annoys me is that they can play, but don't when they hit the stage, yet they still rage about how technically good they are.


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## Born4metal85 (Jan 4, 2009)

shaneroo said:


> should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
> for that matter.......
> 6 strings as well



I would recommend them " helps the shredicine go down"  And yeah. First 6 string. I saw their videos on youtube. I think they should first learn to pick as clear as possibble.


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## eleven59 (Jan 4, 2009)

Wow...bump.


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## renzoip (Jan 4, 2009)

I'm sure they just got the RG2228 because they are Ibanez endorses and they can get it for a good price if not free. Herman Li is just probably experimenting and wanking around to see what he can come up with. I honestly think they won't be using it in their songs.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 4, 2009)

Dragonforce could write a 20 song album using every stringed instrument known to man and they'd still end up with 20 identical songs.


At least Meshuggah don't need their instruments to carry their career. They're more than a novelty. Dragonforce are a tacky xmas present that should never see the light of day. I mean however good you are, 6 minute solos in every song and Meatloaf-fanboy vocals soon get tiring.


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## st2012 (Jan 4, 2009)

*Insert generic Dragonforce joke here*


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## Maniacal (Jan 4, 2009)

Farmer without Karaoke


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## scottro202 (Jan 4, 2009)

well, if I was an ibanez endorse I'd probably get an 8 as well, even though most likely 99&#37; of ss.org are better than me. this has really reminded me of when I was at UG. seriously guys, I thought you were mature than that.

o wait, you are. there's no i cum blood-cannibal corpse, icy-hot, pedo-bear, lol wut?, kensai (ug's unwritten god), or mudkips references

but back on topic, even IF they suck live, they are still a lot more famous than us. give em SOME credit at least.


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## Herrseigneur (Jan 4, 2009)

I'm pretty sure Ibanez just put these in the hands of their endorsees and snap as much pics as they can. A bit like the vid with Dino and Ihsahn, where Ihsahn touched it for the first time. At that point nobody knew if he was going to use it or not...but I'm sure many people though "Hey man, Ihsahn's got one, I need one too!". 

Ihsahn+8 string = ...*world ends from over-pwnage" 
Herman Li + 8 strings = ... ... ... 

Still, who wouldn't get one if it was free?


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## Spondus (Jan 4, 2009)

^
that video sucked. dino's explanation of why he switched from 6 to 7 then to 8 was painfull.
but ihsahn rules


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## dougsteele (Jan 5, 2009)

Cool, one more instrument they can suck on.


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## shaneroo (Jan 5, 2009)

scottro202 said:


> well, if I was an ibanez endorse I'd probably get an 8 as well, even though most likely 99% of ss.org are better than me. this has really reminded me of when I was at UG. seriously guys, I thought you were mature than that.
> 
> o wait, you are. there's no i cum blood-cannibal corpse, icy-hot, pedo-bear, lol wut?, kensai (ug's unwritten god), or mudkips references
> 
> but back on topic, even IF they suck live, they are still a lot more famous than us. give em SOME credit at least.



famous doesn't = talent.

their studio magical album catches some of the younger power-metal fans' ears. not my thing....... but that's not why i rip on them.....

i do, because they are the worst live (from what i've seen), and even their front of house guy would tell you the same (he did front of house for some of my tours). 

i can't stand when what is played in the studio doesn't remotely resemble what is played live, don't care what amount of talent it takes..

plus..... they talk shit about how awesome they are as well (have heard it myself, as well as heard other reputable sources say so).

that is all.


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## darbdavys (Jan 5, 2009)

by the way, does his 8 string have trem with whammy bar? If not, how will he break strings and make mario sounds?


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## Harry (Jan 5, 2009)

^+1 to Shane's post.
I remember when I saw them live in 2007, the whole time I'm thinking "christ, if you can't play your shit at least per cent as good as as you "played it" in the studio, why do you bother". 
But we know the answer is, not everyone has the ears to hear out of tune shit, out of time stuff and the musicians are really only the minority that go out to a gig.
But fuck, talking themself up like that, is not cool either.

I honestly believe these guys could get their shit together and be a tight band if they really cared enough and put in the effort. Anyone can really and these guys aren't any different, it's just a matter of wanting too.
I remember Herman Li saying once in an interview conducted on a Tuesday, that he hadn't played guitar since the previous Friday.
Which is cool and all if you're just a hobby guitar player, but when you're expected to get up and be a professional and you're a role model to kids, come on, at least, at least 6 days a week playing I reckon.


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## skinhead (Jan 6, 2009)

shaneroo said:


> should probably learn to play 7 strings first...........
> for that matter.......
> 6 strings as well





"So, rational gaze goes something like this 0-00, shit, no 0-00-00" I can imagine that


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## JoshuaLogan (Jan 6, 2009)

HughesJB4 said:


> ^+1 to Shane's post.
> I remember when I saw them live in 2007, the whole time I'm thinking "christ, if you can't play your shit at least per cent as good as as you "played it" in the studio, why do you bother".
> But we know the answer is, not everyone has the ears to hear out of tune shit, out of time stuff and the musicians are really only the minority that go out to a gig.
> But fuck, talking themself up like that, is not cool either.
> ...



I'm pretty sure they aren't nearly as bad of players as a lot of guys on here would have you believe. I don't like the band or their music at all, but many of their shitty performances have come fromthem being piss drunk during their shows. I've heard recently they've been being more serious about it and nailing their material live. I wouldn't doubt it either... Again, I don't even care about the band, but I'm pretty sure they're a lot more capable than what is commonly believed...


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## eleven59 (Jan 6, 2009)

JoshuaLogan said:


> I'm pretty sure they aren't nearly as bad of players as a lot of guys on here would have you believe. I don't like the band or their music at all, but many of their shitty performances have come fromthem being piss drunk during their shows. I've heard recently they've been being more serious about it and nailing their material live. I wouldn't doubt it either... Again, I don't even care about the band, but I'm pretty sure they're a lot more capable than what is commonly believed...



In a recent interview they admitted that they can't really play half the stuff that's on the album, because they use so much Pro Tools editing to get it sounding inhumanly tight.

Also, a live video from 2008 should settle this:


Not the greatest sound quality, but from what I can hear it sounds solid enough. At any rate, I agree, they're successful for a reason: people like their music. That's all that matters in the music industry, that people like your songs. This is music, not sports, it's not about who can play faster, or more complicated stuff. It's not about physical achievements or technical ability, it's about entertaining people and creative expression. They're having fun, their audience is having fun, who's getting hurt here? 

Yeah, they had a period of time where they were putting on some really terrible shows and disappointing their fans, but it seems like they've got their act together. Hell, I'm not the worlds biggest fan of their stuff, but I enjoy it when I hear it, and I'd probably go see them live if the chance came up, they put on an entertaining show.

You sound like a bunch of bitter shredders who are disappointed that their hours of practice don't impress people as much as someone who can write a catchy song that anyone can play.


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## vampiregenocide (Jan 6, 2009)

Its not their live abilitiy that troubles me at all, its the fact that they seem to write the same flashy ballads all the time. Gets tiresome.

Plus the lead singer is a prat from all accounts.


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