# Should I mix V30's and Seventy 80's?



## Vrollin (May 20, 2014)

So I have a randall 4x12 cab loaded with seventy 80's at the moment, running off a Randall RH200 SS head. While I find the over all sound to be ok, its still not great, hoping to get a bit more bottom end out of the cab, more growl out of my distorted tones and hopefully more control out of the eq, still getting just a touch of that wet blanket effect. Going for that modern metal sound, I do rhythm more than I attempt to do leads so love to sit there and chug away and want that low end thump with plenty of high end clarity.
So many of the artists I like have cabs with v30's in them and I figured it would be a smart way for me to go, would it be wise to mix in two v30s in a cross pattern in the cab? Would this even set me on the right track? Or should I be looking at other speakers instead? Keeping in mind that I'm not unwilling to replace the remaining seventy 80s with another down in the future....

Thoughts?


Cheers!


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## cwhitey2 (May 20, 2014)

IMO seventy 80's are meh at best, maybe just arent for me. (i have the same randall cab you have)

If you like the way the two sound together give it a shot.

I mix my Basson with my Randall and that brings the low end.


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## Vrollin (May 20, 2014)

Havn't heard them together myself. Was hoping maybe someone out there had? Don't really want to replace all four straight up just yet $$$$$, so having two of the seventy 80s will be the go for the mean time, surely someone out there has been in the same boat and done similar


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## bloodnail (May 20, 2014)

i literally have the same cab the cxm model and just put vintage 30's in an x pattern with the 70/80's.the 70/80's are getting replaced today with celestion k-100's.the 70/80's are way too harsh in the mids mixed with the vintage 30's and mind you i have mesa vintage 30's which have the high end roll off.i'm calling this a no go mixing vin 30 and 70/80.i dont know what amp you have but i have a 5150 and it has plenty of mids also so the mix just didnt work for me.


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## guitarfishbay (May 20, 2014)

My old Laney tt412 had this setup. Actually I bought the cabinet s/h thinking it was all v30 but something wasn't quite sounding right. I've owned several v30 cabs so I knew something wasn't as expected tone wise. Overall I still think that the cab sounded good but it wasn't as tight or aggressive sounding as the all V30 cabs I've had. I guess if you like the cab already and can get a good deal on some speakers it is probably worth it, especially if you close mic for recordings or live. But if you're going to be buying the speakers at new prices/don't mic up I'd be more inclined to keep an eye out for a cab that already has 4 v30s in it and just selling the old cab. You almost never improve the resale value of a cab when upgrading speakers.


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## viesczy (May 20, 2014)

Mixing them all in the trash? Yes! Do it!

V30s (and 70/80s about the same extent) are just to sterile sounding to my ears. The only time I've every liked the tone of them were in a Mesa cab, beyond that the recorded tone and the actual tone from the V30 were split by lightyears.

I never could get the right feel/texture/girth/power that I wanted from my VH100 and XXX with V30s.

Derek


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## Vrollin (May 20, 2014)

guitarfishbay said:


> My old Laney tt412 had this setup. Actually I bought the cabinet s/h thinking it was all v30 but something wasn't quite sounding right. I've owned several v30 cabs so I knew something wasn't as expected tone wise. Overall I still think that the cab sounded good but it wasn't as tight or aggressive sounding as the all V30 cabs I've had. I guess if you like the cab already and can get a good deal on some speakers it is probably worth it, especially if you close mic for recordings or live. But if you're going to be buying the speakers at new prices/don't mic up I'd be more inclined to keep an eye out for a cab that already has 4 v30s in it and just selling the old cab. You almost never improve the resale value of a cab when upgrading speakers.



I picked up this cab for $100, one of the Randall 4x12 cabs if I didnt specify already, so not really worried about things like resale etc.... Thanks for your input on the sound you got!


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## Vrollin (May 20, 2014)

viesczy said:


> Mixing them all in the trash? Yes! Do it!
> 
> V30s (and 70/80s about the same extent) are just to sterile sounding to my ears. The only time I've every liked the tone of them were in a Mesa cab, beyond that the recorded tone and the actual tone from the V30 were split by lightyears.
> 
> ...



Any recomendations on other speaker types to choose? Im open to suggestions!


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## Vrollin (May 20, 2014)

bloodnail said:


> i literally have the same cab the cxm model and just put vintage 30's in an x pattern with the 70/80's.the 70/80's are getting replaced today with celestion k-100's.the 70/80's are way too harsh in the mids mixed with the vintage 30's and mind you i have mesa vintage 30's which have the high end roll off.i'm calling this a no go mixing vin 30 and 70/80.i dont know what amp you have but i have a 5150 and it has plenty of mids also so the mix just didnt work for me.



This is interesting because Ive read around and people say that the seventy 80's are meant to be a vanilla speaker.
What made you reach for the k-100's?


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## bloodnail (May 20, 2014)

The 70/80 is some what of a neutral speaker but mixed with a vin 30 its just to harsh and seems like it pushes the same freqs and just doesn't sit well.k-100 is completely diff in the fact that it has a nice tight and deep bass with present but not harsh mids and a kind of rolled off top end which makes it the opposite of a vin 30 but mixes great because they complement each other filling in the voids that each other lack.also k-100 is a rebranded k-85 from the 90's that came in peavey butcher cabs.I've had both and they sound identical.
I'm also using mesa vin30 which are different than standard vin30.mesa's have taken out the mid spike to a point that the standard vin30 is known to have.


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## Vrollin (May 21, 2014)

Do you think maybe I should look at say the k100 first then the v30s later?


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## karjim (May 21, 2014)

I had this cab with a Randall RH200SC...I sold the cab
Not a really good cab and those speakers are the worst of Celestion speakers.
Put V30s in this cab it's like upgrade a crappy tired car...In a way it will do the job, but you will spend money for something it won't be easy to resell.
IMO sold this cab and grab a budget 212 V30 ....This Randall is a good SS amp and he can do so much better with a good cab.
I have a Mesa 212 and sometimes for fun I take this old RH200 instead of my EVH...
Really cool 90's thrash sound, so much bigger than this budget 412 Randall piece of dry wood....Try a good 212 you will sell this honky monster in a minute


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## Vrollin (May 21, 2014)

hmmm, I know very little about what would make a decent cab, have very limited ways to try things out where I am due to there being only one major retailer and the next capitol city being 1600km away makes it hard to try before I buy.... What should I be looking out for in a cab?


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## bloodnail (May 21, 2014)

There's nothing wrong with the cab just because it doesn't say mesa or Marshall on it.my cab at least is made out of birch all the way around and is almost constructed as good as my mesa so I don't see the point of your logic.the matching cabs that came with the rh200 were junk by mine was ment for the t2 and v2 series.
Really its up to you on what you want to do with your cab but don't let name tags fool you either.mesas are great but you could also find used speakers cheaper than a used mesa.


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## Vrollin (May 21, 2014)

So mine isn't made of birch then? Sorry just a little lost and not at a computer to find specs on mine easy atm. I take it birch construction is a main factor of a good cab then?


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## bloodnail (May 21, 2014)

Idk what model you have in particular but mine is the cxm model.its all birch.the lower end randalls are made out of MDF or pressed particle board.cabs are made from different woods like pine and birch and MDF stuff.so really disregarding a cab because it isn't birch is silly because the 1960 Marshall cabs are made of MDF and they are an industry standard.its all different strokes for different folks theory.
In all honesty if you have the cxm cab like mine its worth upgrading and if it isn't then just sell it and find a different one.to answer the main question you asked though I did not like the mix of vin30 and 70/80 so I tossed the 70/80.you might or might not also,everyone has a different ear.


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## Vrollin (May 21, 2014)

Thanks again mate, I'll check what the model number is if it's on the back when I get home from work. Pretty sure it wasn't MDF though, opened the back when I got it to have a peek inside and from memory there was wood grain inside.
Not looking to spend bulk on a new 4x12. I only went the 4x12 as I picked it up for $100 so don't mind making a minor upgrade if it yields some benefits.
I've also emailed a custom cab maker in Australia to see what they would charge for an orange style 2x12 cab, they claim to be able to do it cheap. See what happens there.


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## Vrollin (May 22, 2014)

Cant find a model number, just had a look inside, and its a ply wood of some description, don't know how to tell if its pine or birch though....
Just sold my little rg75 combo so now have extra funds to throw at it.... hmmm


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## bloodnail (May 22, 2014)

Randall doesn't make pine cabs so its probably birch.does it have the metal grill on the front?


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## Vrollin (May 22, 2014)

Nah its the cloth/mesh stuff.





The one in this pic, sorry only pic I have that kind of shows it.

For some reason they don't have any model number on the jack plate or anything....

Also started to sift through the USA ebay to see what I can find second hand speaker wise. Plenty of 16 ohm speakers, not so many 8 ohm


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## Thaeon (May 22, 2014)

If it's an RC series it's USA made and all void free Baltic Birch. They are just as good as most Mesa or Marshall cabs. I have one and it's built like a tank. But I have a Neo cab. It only weighs about 40lbs.


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## bloodnail (May 22, 2014)

Not sure on that one though.I say if its birch and it WOR h upgrading to you then do it.


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## Vrollin (May 22, 2014)

Dunno if it's the American made one, it's not very heavy, well at least I don't think it is,havnt really moved a cab apart from this one for a while so can't compare, I remember my Ashton 4x12 being heavier. Mind you, for a cheap cab with rocket 50s that Ashton cab performed quite well, go figure...


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## Vrollin (May 22, 2014)

This thread has turned out to be more informative than I had initially hoped!

Are there any sites other than flea bay that you guys could recommend for buying second hand speakers from? Wouldn't mind chasing down some of the uk made v30s....


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## Yo_Wattup (May 22, 2014)

Vrollin said:


> Thanks again mate, I'll check what the model number is if it's on the back when I get home from work. Pretty sure it wasn't MDF though, opened the back when I got it to have a peek inside and from memory there was wood grain inside.
> Not looking to spend bulk on a new 4x12. I only went the 4x12 as I picked it up for $100 so don't mind making a minor upgrade if it yields some benefits.
> I've also emailed a custom cab maker in Australia to see what they would charge for an orange style 2x12 cab, they claim to be able to do it cheap. See what happens there.



Who is this custom cab maker?


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## Vrollin (May 22, 2014)

Yo_Wattup said:


> Who is this custom cab maker?



I just hit up these guys thespeakerfactory.com.au, theyre on holiday at the moment though so didnt get a quote back yet.
Google guitar cabinet makers and search only in Australia, brings up a few!


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## Vrollin (May 23, 2014)

Ok so this is the inside of my cab;





Any thing I could do to improve the construction of the cab? I dont mind hooking into the power tools and having a play around with things....

In the mean time while I figure out what to do Im also having a play around with castors on or off and probably chuck some extra wadding I have kicking around down the bottom too. Just a couple of free and reversable things to try.

Now given what I have read here, and from off a another random google search where someone mixed 30s and k100s, going v30s first might produce too much in the mid range, while the k100s are from my understanding a little more forgiving in the mid range. So now I think im leaning more towards k100's first....? Plus mick thompson uses them so thats cool in my books!


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## Thaeon (May 23, 2014)

K100's are super punchy. Have really tight low end and don't distort as soon as v30's. Less cone cry means you'll be able to turn up without the cones compressing as much. Just more headroom. It's basically a 100 watt g12t-75. But they sound bigger.

The cab doesn't look American. Looks like birch ply around the sides and an MDF baffle. It's better construction than most Marshall 412's. But I'm biased. I never met a Marshall cab I liked. I'm also not a fan of v30's.


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## Vrollin (May 23, 2014)

Def not american, the made in china sticker confirms at least that much about it  The front and rear baffles are actually ply, can also confirm that, does have chip or particle board corner bits and bracing.
Just put it back together, left the poly fill out for now, seems to have a bit more low end on the ground, currently sitting on carpet thats on a concrete slab and thats pretty much where it will always sit till I move house 
Im on the verge of pulling the plug on some k100s.....


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## Alcoholocaust (May 23, 2014)

I would ditch the 70/80s all together and get new speakers.
Right now in my cab i have k-100's and T-75's in X pattern and love it.
I would probably recommend k-100's and V30's as the K-100s are very similar to the 75's, but the 75's have a bit more high end sizzle to them.


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## Vrollin (May 23, 2014)

Yeah the plan is eventually to replace them all, just doing a pair at a time


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## Vrollin (May 23, 2014)

Going to make a couple of phone calls tomorrow and hopefully by the and of the week I'll be seeing if k100s mix with 70 80s for the time being  yup after all that I think I've sold myself on the k100s first. This is as hard as deciding which pickups to buy, they'll always be better than the cheapies but are they the best for you?


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## Vrollin (May 23, 2014)

After all that, just placed an order on the G12K-100's  no idea when they will get here, hopefully before I have to go field for a couple weeks other wise i'll be waiting a month untill I can slap them in the cab and have a fiddle!


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## Vrollin (May 23, 2014)

After all that, just placed an order on the G12K-100's  no idea when they will get here, hopefully before I have to go field for a couple weeks other wise i'll be waiting a month untill I can slap them in the cab and have a fiddle!


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## newamerikangospel (May 25, 2014)

As far as low end, that cab has a massive amount of low end when a band drug it in for recording. V30s would be good to settle out the mids that the seventy80 has, but I would take almost any speaker over the seventy80. 

Look at wharehouse speakers.


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## Shotgun (May 26, 2014)

I use EVM12L with V30. It is the greatest thing I have ever heard.

Very cool combination with V30:
-Eminence Legend V12
-Celestion K100
-Celestion Creamback


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## VBCheeseGrater (May 27, 2014)

I see you ordered already, but I say sure you can mix them. 

First off, the V30 should be louder than the 70/80 (better sensitivity rating) so it will be more prominent in mix

Secondly, typically you only mic one speaker, so even one V30 can make a huge difference at a gig, just mic that speaker.


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## Vrollin (Jun 2, 2014)

Just picked up the k100's today and dropped those bad boys in!
Havnt had much of a chance to mess with them yet, or get some volume out of the setup as its night time now, but so far they are awesome! Putting my ear to the old seventy 80 and then to the k100 is like day and night, its listening through a pillow vs a nice bright full speaker. Overall so far the best way to describe it is as though someone installed a presence knob on the amp and tightened up the low end, especially noticeable on the cleans. Very keen to get rid of the last to seventy 80s and get some V30s in there now!





Packaged well!












New vs old




All wired up!


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## sefloval (Jun 2, 2014)

Because of this thread I checked my local CL and found an old Crate 1x12 combo amp that had a Celestion G12K-85 in it. Got it for $40. It's going into my Avatar 2X12 mixed with a Vintage 30 and can't wait to install it and try it out! the K85 will be replacing the G12H-30 currently in the cab which just seems to be a muddy mess at higher volumes. 
Great thread and congrats on the new K-100's!


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## Vrollin (Jun 22, 2014)

How did you go with the speaker swap sefloval? Keen to hear your opinion!

To anyone following, I've noticed that the G12K's has a much lower to completely reduced level of fizz when compared to the 70/80s, and I am very close to pulling the trigger on either another pair of G12K's or the V30s, however Im reading mixed responce about the V30s and fizz in the top end. Can anyone shed some light on their experiences with v30s and whether or not there is a presence of fizz?
To be difficult, interested in the WGS Veteran 30s also.....

Cheers again all!


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 22, 2014)

Vrollin said:


> How did you go with the speaker swap sefloval? Keen to hear your opinion!
> 
> To anyone following, I've noticed that the G12K's has a much lower to completely reduced level of fizz when compared to the 70/80s, and I am very close to pulling the trigger on either another pair of G12K's or the V30s, however Im reading mixed responce about the V30s and fizz in the top end. Can anyone shed some light on their experiences with v30s and whether or not there is a presence of fizz?
> To be difficult, interested in the WGS Veteran 30s also.....
> ...



The mixed response might be based on what people are using before the speaker; amp, pickup, guitar... you know, the usual. If you want to avoid that issue all together, skip the V30 and go for the Vet 30s or an Eminence Governor. 

As for modding the cabinet in other ways, you can try -- and may get slight or vast improvements -- from using thicker/better wire to wire the cab up with as well as caulking the cabinet to seal it. Also, you may or may not want to plug the port at the bottom of the front panel. I'd use something you can temporary plug it up with to see if you like it or not before you make it a permanent modification.

Lastly, if you're really adventurous, you can try removing the middle plank between the speakers that goes from the front panel to the back panel for something a little more usual like a post. However, I dunno how the plank is attached and how difficult/useful this particular modification would be and whether or not the differences will be worth the effort.


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## Vrollin (Jun 22, 2014)

Spaced Out Ace said:


> The mixed response might be based on what people are using before the speaker; amp, pickup, guitar... you know, the usual. If you want to avoid that issue all together, skip the V30 and go for the Vet 30s or an Eminence Governor.
> 
> As for modding the cabinet in other ways, you can try -- and may get slight or vast improvements -- from using thicker/better wire to wire the cab up with as well as caulking the cabinet to seal it. Also, you may or may not want to plug the port at the bottom of the front panel. I'd use something you can temporary plug it up with to see if you like it or not before you make it a permanent modification.
> 
> Lastly, if you're really adventurous, you can try removing the middle plank between the speakers that goes from the front panel to the back panel for something a little more usual like a post. However, I dunno how the plank is attached and how difficult/useful this particular modification would be and whether or not the differences will be worth the effort.



Cheers for the tips! Ive been checking out all the comparison vids on youtube, every video is so bloody different though, in one a particular speaker sounds better and in another its not as good as the other.... This is as hard as deciding pickups, you know its going to be better that what you have but is it the right one for you....?

Reckon I will try sealing up that port to see what happens, Ill just use a small cut of wood and make a foam gasket to seal it, will just screw it in place, already bought myself some sika to seal up the box but bailed when I realised it had the port on the front of it. Was looking at that bracing and thinking its one area it could be improved on.


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## cGoEcYk (Jun 23, 2014)

Vrollin said:


> To be difficult, interested in the WGS Veteran 30s also.....


Retro 30 is probably what you are looking at, it is closer to the actual V30. 

Eminence Governors are the bomb too. They are a little less spikey than Celestion V30 and bigger sounding overall. 

Edit: Govs have a lot less breakup than V30... I think the blend of V30 breakup in the midrange is part of what makes the G12K/V30 pair so awesome.

I'd go with either Made-in-USA speaker over Chinese V30 at like $125/ea.


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## TRENCHLORD (Jun 23, 2014)

Remember you can also order V30 or C90 directly from Mesa if you want a UK-made version.
$129 last I checked. Mesa Hollywood does free shipping on some stuff IIRC.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jun 23, 2014)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Remember you can also order V30 or C90 directly from Mesa if you want a UK-made version.
> $129 last I checked. Mesa Hollywood does free shipping on some stuff IIRC.



Definitely this if a Chinese V30 or American Vet/Retro 30 or Governor aren't your thing.


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## Vrollin (Jul 1, 2014)

Thanks for the info on the UK V30s, but I had jumped the gun and bought some V30s before i read it, IDIOT! Oh well, is what it is!
V30s arrived today and now I have completed the speaker swap! I have a wicked cold at the moment so my hearing has been shot for well over a week so I can't even explain what the difference is im hearing as I cant hear anything properly right now. Does sound a lot clearer though I can tell that much, I just want to give them a massive cranking but cant do that where I live


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## bloodnail (Jul 2, 2014)

Sorry I haven't had time to talk to you more about this but it seems you got it under control now.the amp you use does play a big part and I was using a 5150 and my cab was all birch which I see yours is not plus I didn't have the port in mine.when you feel better play the shit out of it and enjoy.


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## Vrollin (Jul 2, 2014)

All good mate, Im finding more and more that I want to get that sweet tube distortion but I really cant do that with an actual tube head, wouldnt be able to get it loud enough for the tube to do their thing. Starting to think about modelling amps and what not but the good stuff is very expensive and Im not sure what is good and what is crap etc....

It would be interesting to know what the cab is made out of if it is not birch....


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## bloodnail (Jul 2, 2014)

now that i see it on my actual computer it does look like its constructed of some form of ply but i dont know of what kind but the majority of the the bracing looks like particle board but if it sounds good to you it doesn't matter.also what amp are you using?is that a randall rh200?


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## Vrollin (Jul 2, 2014)

Its 110 percent constructed of ply front back top bottom and sides. Only non ply is that brace and the corner bits.
Yup RH200, its ok but, fantastic cleans, distortion could have a little more something to it, I dunno what, I just cant put my finger on it...


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## bloodnail (Jul 2, 2014)

Yea I noticed that,still a good cab though. The rh200 is an awesome head I don't care what anyone says.I used it to record my first ep.my settings were everything at noon or slightly off of that boosted with a boss sd-1 worked great for me and that was running through a celestion k-85 witch is the same as a k-100.


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## Vrollin (Jul 2, 2014)

I tired the boosted thing, but it was just a horrible mess, I just for the life of me couldnt work it out. Tried it with an SD-1, MT2 and Fullbore, I think I would need someone to actually show me where the settings should be for it to work etc etc...


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## Spaced Out Ace (Jul 5, 2014)

Vrollin said:


> I tired the boosted thing, but it was just a horrible mess, I just for the life of me couldnt work it out. Tried it with an SD-1, MT2 and Fullbore, I think I would need someone to actually show me where the settings should be for it to work etc etc...



For overdrive pedals like the SD-1, TS9, etc. the knobs should be Level - 10, drive - 0, and tone set to taste. Haven't tried using an MT2 for a boost, so couldn't tell ya.


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## Vrollin (Jul 6, 2014)

Earlier on it was brought up that such mods to a cab would be worthless as the resale value wouldn't be worth it. Bought the cab for $100, just sold the seventy 80's for $150, so made a $50 profit and still have the cab, so right now the cab itself owes me nothing, cheering!


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## bloodnail (Jul 6, 2014)

That's cool you got that much out of them but I let mine go for $25 bucks cause I got tired of them laying around.as for using a boost set it up like Ace said as a clean boost.I personally didn't think the red channel needed a boost but the other gain channel did because it was more old school flavored.the contour control on that head makes or breaks it so find the sweet spot on it and set everything else to taste.


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## Vrollin (Jul 7, 2014)

That bloody contour knob, I swear every time I turn it on my ears tell me it needs to move, Ill have it sweet, then next time I play Im like nahhh move it....


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