# How about that Misha Toneforge?



## Stijnson

Sounds pretty good imo, the included pedal emulation and effects are really cool too. 
What you guys think, anyone pre-order it?


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## Masoo2

I dig the tones but I think including presets only for preorders is stupid. It seems almost overly complex for a simple amp + few effects plugin that the presets would almost be necessary, especially with the odd "36 channels" thing.

Doubt I'll purchase anytime soon, need to wait until some real reviews come out as I'm already very satisfied with my selection of amp sims.

Does sound a LOT better than Toneforge Jason Richardson though. One of the worst sounding amp sims I've ever used.


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## Vyn

$99USD for pre-order, $149USD if you don't. Eh. Looks good if you are after Misha's tone or don't already have a suite of plugins that work for you.


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

Think it's probably your best shot at getting an Invective at this point


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## bulb

OliOliver said:


> Think it's probably your best shot at getting an Invective at this point


Ah this isn't modeled off of the invective at all. Kind of it's own thing based off of recording tones!


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## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

bulb said:


> Ah this isn't modeled off of the invective at all. Kind of it's own thing based off of recording tones!



Fair enough, sounds pretty good to me either way


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## mikah912

It's pretty straightforward and the video demo is much appreciated, Misha. I just can't get down with software I cannot demo in any way, shape or form. I don't think you or JST is deliberately trying to be shifty, but that's table stakes these days. How it sounds with your guitar and hands has nothing to do with how it'll sound when I try it with mine. 

I'm sure you all will sell plenty, tho.


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## Kaura

I have the Toneforge Menace and Guilty Pleasure. Both of them were pretty big disappointments. Still, I decided to give them one more chance so I pre-ordered this one. Feature-wise it seems promising and the demo Misha made sounded pretty good. 

As long as it gives me the ultimate djent rhythm tone then I'm happy but it would be nice if it's more versatile. The voicing-knob (or whatever it is) seems pretty interesting.


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## I play music

Wtf is the point of preordering software?!


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## vertibration

I mean, look....You do get a modeled version of the precision drive which is awesome. The Reverb in the video sounds very similar to the Big Sky, at least to my ears, and the fact that the amp has like 36 modeled tones from that big knob in the middle is a pretty cool addition. I preordered, just because of the precision drive to be honest. Without that, Im not sure if I would have ordered it. Seriously though, its hard to think that this will be a crappy amp sim. The Jason Richardson is good, but it takes some EQ tweaking, and it would have benefited from an OD so I know how some people may feel about it, and I can sort of relate. I have a really good feeling about this, and I really think this is going to be the "go to" for producers that want quick, easy, with a good sound


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## mikah912

vertibration said:


> I mean, look....You do get a modeled version of the precision drive which is awesome. The Reverb in the video sounds very similar to the Big Sky, at least to my ears, and the fact that the amp has like 36 modeled tones from that big knob in the middle is a pretty cool addition. I preordered, just because of the precision drive to be honest. Without that, Im not sure if I would have ordered it. Seriously though, its hard to think that this will be a crappy amp sim. The Jason Richardson is good, but it takes some EQ tweaking, and it would have benefited from an OD so I know how some people may feel about it, and I can sort of relate. I have a really good feeling about this, and I really think this is going to be the "go to" for producers that want quick, easy, with a good sound



I'm not sure that's an unfulfilled niche these days. Toontrack has how many different Metal Guitar Gods packs that are nothing but quick presets - including from Misha? Thermionik has quick presets for every amp model. You can still view Misha's YouTube demo video for his 4x12 Mesa cab pack where he shows his exact TSE X50 settings (slightly boosting the treble and bass, slightly scoopy the mids with the 808 pedal in front in clean boost mode).

The cleans sounded appropriately spacey enough, but spacey cleans come in most of those Toontrack packs too. 

Not hating, mind you. Again, I know this will sell, and if I wasn't interested, I wouldn't even be in this thread. I just can't drop bread on plugins I can't try any more....


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## Lorcan Ward

I pre-ordered this, Joey's ad was a bit persuasive haha. The big appeal of this for me is having everything all in one sim where I can make presets, I love thermionik but it gets a bit messy having 7 plug-ins for one guitar track, hardest thing to find is a decent noisegate for guitar, nobody has made a standalone one yet. The JST approach of having a small high quality setup is great for finding a quick good tone and the extra tone tweaking options that they've added in this one is going to give limitless options judging from the demo video.


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## Kaura

I play music said:


> Wtf is the point of preordering software?!



-You get it one day earlier
-You get it cheaper
-You get the presets made by Misha

The price alone justifies it, imo. I do understand if you want to wait for reviews and/or user experiences but 99$ don't break my bank even if it's ends up being a disappointment.


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## LiveOVErdrive

The preorders make me nervous, coming from the PC gaming world. But if this is built on a well-proven engine it should be alright.


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## I play music

Kaura said:


> -You get it one day earlier
> -You get it cheaper
> -You get the presets made by Misha
> 
> The price alone justifies it, imo. I do understand if you want to wait for reviews and/or user experiences but 99$ don't break my bank even if it's ends up being a disappointment.


Yeah, marketing trick to trigger more purchases. But technically it makes no sense. If the software is already programmed why let people wait.


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## wlfers

It's so you can get on the waitlist, in case they run out of software to ship


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## vertibration

Probably to secure funds before release to avoid pirating. Not to mention, overhead for anyone involved with whom they have to pay for their services


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## cmtd

vertibration said:


> The Reverb in the video sounds very similar to the Big Sky, at least to my ears



Which one of the 12 reverb machines in the big sky would you say it sounds similar to?


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## narad

cmtd said:


> Which one of the 12 reverb machines in the big sky would you say it sounds similar to?



The big sky sounds like all reverb.


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## Andromalia

Mmmh, preorder software with day one DLC (the presets). Not the way you should be going, that's a surefire way to alienate customers.
(Won't comment on tone, I'm getting an axe III delivered on monday so obviously won't buy this)


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## bulb

vertibration said:


> Probably to secure funds before release to avoid pirating. Not to mention, overhead for anyone involved with whom they have to pay for their services



Exactly, it basically allows for you to have cash flow prerelease! 
And it’s cheaper and you get bonuses for preordering so it’s a win-win as far as I’m concerned.


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## vertibration

bulb said:


> Exactly, it basically allows for you to have cash flow prerelease!
> And it’s cheaper and you get bonuses for preordering so it’s a win-win as far as I’m concerned.



Definitely a big win for those who buy it because its got all the bells and whistles anyone would want. Lots of amp sims have tube screamers, but none a precision drive. You guys really did something special here. It also would be cool to see if this will be used in any form for the P4 upcoming album


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## narad

Does it come with knee pads?


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## bulb

narad said:


> Does it come with knee pads?


No, but I will sell you a signature shaker for all your salt!


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## I play music

bulb said:


> No, but I will sell you a signature shaker for all your salt!


Does the signature shaker need to be preordered for a price of 20$ to receive it next year instead of your normal price of 30$ (despite shakers costing 10$ at Walmart) with a bonus "S" sticker -that people have been wanting for years- so you don't confuse it with pepper?


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## bulb

I play music said:


> Does the signature shaker need to be preordered for a price of 20$ to receive it next year instead of your normal price of 30$ (despite shakers costing 10$ at Walmart) with a bonus "S" sticker -that people have been wanting for years- so you don't confuse it with pepper?



It's like you want to troll at the level of that Andrew Lloyd Webber dude, but genuinely miss the mark at every opportunity. Call him in here and have him show you how it's done.


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## MaxOfMetal

Ugh, can we make it through one [1] Periphery-related gear thread without this bickering?

Next tangent is getting this shut down too.


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## Frostbite

I'm super excited for this plugin. Helix is the closest I've got to a guitar tone I really like through a plugin but just from the demo it's exactly what I want. Using a plugin instead of pedals or outboard gear is much more flexible IMO


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## vertibration

narad said:


> Does it come with knee pads?





Frostbite said:


> I'm super excited for this plugin. Helix is the closest I've got to a guitar tone I really like through a plugin but just from the demo it's exactly what I want. Using a plugin instead of pedals or outboard gear is much more flexible IMO



Helix is dope, weird artifacts with their models, but there are ways to EQ them out. I like the Jason Richardson plugin, but Helix is cool too.


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## Drew

bulb said:


> No, but I will sell you a signature shaker for all your salt!


Is that my lost shaker of salt? I've been searching for that.


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## mikah912

vertibration said:


> X50 does have a spring Reverb in the latest update, if you bought it, log into your account to download



That I shall do later on tonight. Thanks for the heads-up!


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## Lorcan Ward

Andromalia said:


> (Won't comment on tone, I'm getting an axe III delivered on monday so obviously won't buy this)



I had to cancel my Axe-Fx III invite. I hope you got mine!


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## Andromalia

I had it delivered at work to avoid UPS/Fedex delivery "accidents" so I'll be unpacking it tomorrow.


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## Flappydoodle

mikah912 said:


> It's pretty straightforward and the video demo is much appreciated, Misha. I just can't get down with software I cannot demo in any way, shape or form. I don't think you or JST is deliberately trying to be shifty, but that's table stakes these days. How it sounds with your guitar and hands has nothing to do with how it'll sound when I try it with mine.
> 
> I'm sure you all will sell plenty, tho.



Totally agree with you about wanting a demo first. But as a warning, if you buy anything from JST, use your throwaway email account, because they spam the SHIT out of you.

I bought Menace when it was on sale for $10, and they emailed me 11 times in 7 days with all sorts of promotion offers, voucher codes, surveys etc. The worst day had 3 separate emails arrive. Then, when I unsubscribed, they still kept emailing (which might even be illegal) asking for me to review the software I bought.

And for the record, Menace is ok. But not better than Thermionik. I used it for about 20 minutes, didn't like any of the four cabinet impulses. I would have been super unhappy if I'd paid $120 for it. That automatically puts me off this one a bit.

As for the YouTube video of Misha's JST plugin - it sounds like Misha. He sounds exactly the same whether using his Axe FX, his signature Peavey, TSE X50, his signature guitar impulses, and through this new signature plugin. He always sounds the same, regardless of which product he's plugging. It's his playing technique mostly, and his guitar. It's not my favourite type of guitar tone, but I'm sure this will do the job for people who want super gated djent stuff. The cleans did sound good too, and modelling of the precision drive is a nice touch.


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## Kaura

Does anyone know how to make the presets work with Cubase? I have no idea where to put them.


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## fob

Kaura said:


> Does anyone know how to make the presets work with Cubase? I have no idea where to put them.


I’m having the same issue with the presets with Logic Pro X right now as well. I emailed CS. I saw others with this problem as well. I’m not sure why because I have the folder in the same place where my personal presets are saved and those can be saved and re-called easily


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## Kaura

Fixed it. In case anyone else is having problems with Cubase, here's what I did.

1. Create a folder called "Toneforge - Misha Mansoor" with the presets in it under a folder called "Joey Sturgis Tones" under the "VST3 Presets" folder which can be found on your Windows user's documents folder. (C:\Users\*your user*\Documents)
2. In Cubase open the plugin
3. Click the "Load preset" button
4. Press shift+F2 and enable "Filters" and "Location Tree"
5. You should be able to see the "Toneforge - Misha Mansoor" folder in the location tree box so untick the folder and when it asks if you want to remove it, click "Keep"
6. Then just retick the folder and you should be able to see the presets


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## fob

Update:

I got an email back from JST and they said they put the wrong preset folder in the download link by accident and sent me a new one. I haven’t got to try it yet but if anyone is having an issue with the presets on Logic or Mac in general, this may be the solution.


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## Flappydoodle

Sounds like shit. And I think Ryan knows it, because he didn't actually say anything good about it, haha.


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## fob

Flappydoodle said:


> Sounds like shit. And I think Ryan knows it, because he didn't actually say anything good about it, haha.



I think his demo sounded like shit. I think it sounds great.


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## mikah912

First this, then the preorder from a different developer for the new Fortin Amp suite - priced almost identically. I respect the hustle.


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## bulb

It’s always a hustle in MI, but good competition is fun, and Fortin and Neural are good companies, so this is gonna be exciting!!


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## mikah912

bulb said:


> It’s always a hustle in MI, but good competition is fun, and Fortin and Neural are good companies, so this is gonna be exciting!!



Love the perspective, Misha. Wish you the best in these new ventures.


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## fob

Great time for everyone making music. These plugins make it so easy to just sound good so you can just be creative. It’s a matter of style and preference than quality at this point.


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## vertibration

Both plugins serve purposes. I bought the Misha, and preordered the Fortin. Mishas plugin has lots of bells and whistles that the Fortin doesnt have, but the Fortin, is just.....its Fortin


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## Lorcan Ward

Tested it quickly on some rhythm tracks. Its very clean and tight sounding, doesn't have tons of fizz like other amp sims but I need to figure out how to add more saturation/gain to reach a middle ground. Its very tight on its own without a pedal. The Precision Drive isn't like a normal overdrive at all so I just put TS-808 in front to test it out. The amount of tonal options from the gain knob is ridiculous. Just cycling through the 4 sections gave so many different tones. Presets aren't working yet so I can't see who Misha dials in certain parameters. 

There are a lot of fine tuning options and ones that look usable like harmonics and purr. I'd need to really dive into it to get a good idea of it. The manual is a must read anyway with all the parameters.


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## Jacksonluvr636

TL;DR the PD sim is cool and the jokes make this thread for me.

I just came to say that I am glad to see the trolls and jokes going on. You have to admit the knee pads comment was Epic but I love how Misha gave it right back. You guys are hilarious.

The plugin train is a chuggin. Same thing I said about the Fortin deal. For $99 it seems like a great buy either way. You get extra stuff and a PD sim.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. I am trying to get away from sims and am trying to get good at recording and mixing personally so I have no stakes in any of this. I do have 1 single question out of curiosity, how close to the real PD is the sim? That must be hard to achieve something like that and I am curious.


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## Frostbite

After messing around with it for about 4-5 hours I hate to say it but I'm really not digging it. It has a cocked wah sound to it that I can't get rid of and it just sounds super digital to me. I also get a really weird electronic sounding crackle noise any time I try to dial in an overly tight "djent" tone. Like when the chug starts to fade out you can hear it in the back ground. It also reacts really oddly to the IR I usually use which is a Zilla fatboy. I think I may just stick with Helix. It's just not doing it for me.


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## Flappydoodle

Jacksonluvr636 said:


> how close to the real PD is the sim? That must be hard to achieve something like that and I am curious.



A pedal must be easier to model than a whole amp

At the end of the day, most boost pedals are simply an EQ filter (usually cutting low end, boosting some specific mid frequency), plus volume.


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## vertibration

Frostbite said:


> After messing around with it for about 4-5 hours I hate to say it but I'm really not digging it. It has a cocked wah sound to it that I can't get rid of and it just sounds super digital to me. I also get a really weird electronic sounding crackle noise any time I try to dial in an overly tight "djent" tone. Like when the chug starts to fade out you can hear it in the back ground. It also reacts really oddly to the IR I usually use which is a Zilla fatboy. I think I may just stick with Helix. It's just not doing it for me.



What helped me is reducing the volume not on the amp gain so much as reducing the volume knob on the precision drive. Different strokes for different folks though. I like it a lot, and I think it sounds great. I just know that it takes a looooooooong ass time to really dial it in for some people who are particular with certain tones, and this one took me a bit to find the right sound. I say, revisit it, come back with fresh ears, slap an EQ on it, and try it again. There were times I used to hate certain amp sims including Helix, I took a step away, and the next day I would dial in a much better tone


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## Frostbite

vertibration said:


> What helped me is reducing the volume not on the amp gain so much as reducing the volume knob on the precision drive. Different strokes for different folks though. I like it a lot, and I think it sounds great. I just know that it takes a looooooooong ass time to really dial it in for some people who are particular with certain tones, and this one took me a bit to find the right sound. I say, revisit it, come back with fresh ears, slap an EQ on it, and try it again. There were times I used to hate certain amp sims including Helix, I took a step away, and the next day I would dial in a much better tone


Yeah I'm definitely not giving up on it, especially since I paid for it haha. I think it also came out at the wrong time because I just dialed in a tone on Helix that is probably the best tone I've ever used so far. Definitely gonna keep trying with it


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## fob

Sounds incredible to me. There’s so much editing that you can totally get that wah sound you’re talking about, but you can get a total opposite end of the spectrum through a number of ways. Not to mention external IR, which I got the packs and they sound great to me. 

Just needs a learning curve, which is good because I think it’s extremely versatile once you get the hang of it. I only hope there’s pedals added to it if it’s updated.


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## worcester7

Granted I haven't spent that long with it so far but I'm not into it right off the bat, which is how I've felt with other JSTs. Tinkering with some existing recordings both in 7- and 6-string I'm getting a bunch of fizz that I'm going to have work hard on taming. Cleans though are pristine so I may use it for that.

I fancy having a look at the Fortin Nameless but I think I'm coming to the conclusion that I shouldn't be spending £100 here and there constantly; I should probably start just saving up for a Kemper.


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## Lorcan Ward

I find this plugin similar to how the Kemper works but with much more usable EQ controls. You turn the gain knob until you find a setting that works with your guitar or the tone you're looking for and then work from there. They all sound quite different, some being unusable for certain tones and others being a great starting point. If there was ever a product not to judge by sound samples it would be this since it doesn't have a specific sound like TSE or Thermionik. The Precision Drive has a lot of tonal options to shape the tone and then the amp's controls have a lot of fine tuning options. Thats before you even start experimenting with impulses at which point you can go back to the gain knob and find a setting that works with your impulse rather than trying to match impulses to an amp. This is the approach Kemper should take if they made a MK2 model or a plug-in.


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## Frostbite

Came into it with a fresh set of ears this morning, ignored all the presets and just started dialing and got something I'm much more happy with with pretty minimal effort. Still getting that weird electronic crackling on super gated parts though. Not sure about that one.


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## Kaura

Frostbite said:


> Came into it with a fresh set of ears this morning, ignored all the presets and just started dialing and got something I'm much more happy with with pretty minimal effort. Still getting that weird electronic crackling on super gated parts though. Not sure about that one.



I'm not sure if were having the same issue but I noticed when I dialed a really tight tone, there was this weird sort of acoustic noise. Kinda like having the DI tone bleeding through.

Edit: Well, shit. I was playing videogames and noticed I could hear my own breathing through my mic so apparently my DI was in fact bleeding.


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## Frostbite

I'm gonna get out a recording to try and capture it

edit: listen after the palm mutes. It's like a dying electrical noise

https://soundcloud.com/frostbite-108667210/electrical-noise


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## Veldar

^ ewww


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## Flappydoodle

Frostbite said:


> I'm gonna get out a recording to try and capture it
> 
> edit: listen after the palm mutes. It's like a dying electrical noise
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/frostbite-108667210/electrical-noise



Weird. Sounds like the noise gate freaking out.

That's a horrible tone (IMO) though. All fizz and treble. Way too much gain. And presumably you have the gate set really aggressive too.


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## vertibration

Post another one with your own IR. Just curious if it happens with 3rd party IRs. Just wanna see if its the Cab section


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## fob

Frostbite said:


> I'm gonna get out a recording to try and capture it
> 
> edit: listen after the palm mutes. It's like a dying electrical noise
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/frostbite-108667210/electrical-noise


Do all your sims sound like that? with comparative settings I mean. It kinda sounds like your input gain is too hot, and maybe even your clipping your D.I. Just go down the list of those things, including re-gain staging your amp/drive pedals.


https://soundcloud.com/fobtoonz/misha-toneforge-raw-tone-tele

this is just a simple raw 1 take unedited clip of the toneforge on my tele, with all settings at noon, on the lead channel with the gain at the bottom wheel on the second to last gain stage (so a lot of gain), with just the noise gate of the plugin on to like 60..

Excuse the bad playing and roughness of the take and all that. I think it has a nice clarity and punch to it just out of the box. There is a bit of a hissiness like this other person is experiencing, but this again is totally totally raw. This, to me, doesnt have that same kinda electrical weird gainy sound. I wanted to see if this would help you, or me if my ears lie. lol

At the end of my little demo here, I turn the input gain of the amp up and play to see if you can get a similar distorted sound to how this other person was getting, followed by turning up the gain on my interface (firepod INSTR input) in combination with the input gain of the toneforge to see if it clipped it even more, and if in a distinctly different way.


Just found a trick for some of the high end solution.

Turn the "Pres" on the top end to 100, then turn the range til you hear the pleasing range that blends with the rest of your tone, then turn down the "Pres" to taste. I would use it as an additive to pleasing high end, not a subtractive of the unpleastent high end. Use the EQ for that.


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## Frostbite

fob said:


> Do all your sims sound like that? with comparative settings I mean. It kinda sounds like your input gain is too hot, and maybe even your clipping your D.I. Just go down the list of those things, including re-gain staging your amp/drive pedals.
> 
> 
> https://soundcloud.com/fobtoonz/misha-toneforge-raw-tone-tele
> 
> this is just a simple raw 1 take unedited clip of the toneforge on my tele, with all settings at noon, on the lead channel with the gain at the bottom wheel on the second to last gain stage (so a lot of gain), with just the noise gate of the plugin on to like 60..
> 
> Excuse the bad playing and roughness of the take and all that. I think it has a nice clarity and punch to it just out of the box. There is a bit of a hissiness like this other person is experiencing, but this again is totally totally raw. This, to me, doesnt have that same kinda electrical weird gainy sound. I wanted to see if this would help you, or me if my ears lie. lol
> 
> At the end of my little demo here, I turn the input gain of the amp up and play to see if you can get a similar distorted sound to how this other person was getting, followed by turning up the gain on my interface (firepod INSTR input) in combination with the input gain of the toneforge to see if it clipped it even more, and if in a distinctly different way.
> 
> 
> Just found a trick for some of the high end solution.
> 
> Turn the "Pres" on the top end to 100, then turn the range til you hear the pleasing range that blends with the rest of your tone, then turn down the "Pres" to taste. I would use it as an additive to pleasing high end, not a subtractive of the unpleastent high end. Use the EQ for that.


No none of my sims sound like this TBH. Never run into issues with any clipping either. Just into a 2i2 with the input gain set right below clipping on super heavy palm mutes and in my DAW I have about 6db of headroom. In the plugin I haven't touched the input or output gain at all and neither of them are clipping within the plugin either.

To be honest I've really never been the best at dialing in tones so I think that's partially where my problem lies. I'll definitely use the presence tips you gave and try that too. I think I'm over doing the treble on my tone because sometimes it sounds like my tone is really muffled. I used the same practice amp and distortion pedal for like 7+ years so dialing in tones is still fairly new to me and I'm still learning what stuff should sound like.


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## fob

Frostbite said:


> No none of my sims sound like this TBH. Never run into issues with any clipping either. Just into a 2i2 with the input gain set right below clipping on super heavy palm mutes and in my DAW I have about 6db of headroom. In the plugin I haven't touched the input or output gain at all and neither of them are clipping within the plugin either.
> 
> To be honest I've really never been the best at dialing in tones so I think that's partially where my problem lies. I'll definitely use the presence tips you gave and try that too. I think I'm over doing the treble on my tone because sometimes it sounds like my tone is really muffled. I used the same practice amp and distortion pedal for like 7+ years so dialing in tones is still fairly new to me and I'm still learning what stuff should sound like.


New stuff, especially when it requires a learning curve, tends to sound bad at first to me. Maybe it’s bad over all, but if it’s challenging to use some people think it’s bad cause it’s hard. Axe Fx 2 has that reputation big time.


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## Ericjutsu

god dammit. I was going to get the Fortin Nameless Suite but they don't accept Paypal Credit. I think I'm going to get Toneforge. Their marketing (and pay pal credit friendliness) got to me! Quick someone tell me to buy this plugin right now.


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## bulb

Ericjutsu said:


> god dammit. I was going to get the Fortin Nameless Suite but they don't accept Paypal Credit. I think I'm going to get Toneforge. Their marketing (and pay pal credit friendliness) got to me! Quick someone tell me to buy this plugin right now.


Buy it dude!! You will love it!!


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## Ericjutsu

bulb said:


> Buy it dude!! You will love it!!


I was hoping you'd be the one to tell me lol 
Alright it's a done deal.
P.s. I love you Misha


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## Ericjutsu

Damn looks like it doesn't accept pay pal credit even though it was listed as an option when I initially went to pay


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## Ericjutsu

Fuck it. Bought it anyways using my Amazon Store Card. Damn, this Lexapro is making me more impulsive! Whatever, 150 bucks isn't going to ruin me financially.


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## Ericjutsu

Any presets? Can't seem to find them


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## Kaura

Ericjutsu said:


> Any presets? Can't seem to find them



The presets were a pre-order exclusive.


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## Ericjutsu

Kaura said:


> The presets were a pre-order exclusive.


Oh wow you'd think it would come with some at least.


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## Ericjutsu

Well after some time with this plugin I have to say I'm happy with it. It is very versatile and I like the clarity and tightness of the amp. The clean tones and reverb sound really good. I like the reverb better than the new ones in my Helix.


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## Ericjutsu

Also I'd really like to know more details about the "Magic" button in the signal chain. To me it sounds a bit like the American Classic pre amp in Pod Farm that he likes to use after the amp. I'm just really curious what kind of processing it does because it drastically changes the sound.


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## Ericjutsu

Well I was expecting more buzz surrounding this plugin after the release. Anyone have any thoughts on this plugin?


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## Andrew Lloyd Webber

*raises hand*

Do you intend to use it for anything more than just having fun with it?


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## bulb

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> *raises hand*
> 
> Do you intend to use it for anything more than just having fun with it?



Great question! 
The answer is that possibly we should hypothetically consider the tendency of the majority of the people who


----------



## bulb

Ericjutsu said:


> Well I was expecting more buzz surrounding this plugin after the release. Anyone have any thoughts on this plugin?



We sold 5 copies, all 5 people have commented!


----------



## Ericjutsu

bulb said:


> We sold 5 copies, all 5 people have commented!


cool


----------



## Ericjutsu

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> *raises hand*
> 
> Do you intend to use it for anything more than just having fun with it?


Well I just play guitar and record my music for fun so no I don't intend on doing anything more with it. I'm just surprised there isn't a lot of posts about it after the release that's all. Obviously I enjoy reading about other people's opinions on gear/software, otherwise I wouldn't frequent discussion forums.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Then just have fun with it at the same cost as those who don’t. What expectations informed by the existence of Misha’s DAW amp plugin could possibly be disappointed? It’s not like any other amp plugin, where we would expect it to do more than one thing.


----------



## mikah912

Ericjutsu said:


> Well I just play guitar and record my music for fun so no I don't intend on doing anything more with it. I'm just surprised there isn't a lot of posts about it after the release that's all. Obviously I enjoy reading about other people's opinions on gear/software, otherwise I wouldn't frequent discussion forums.


There's not a lot of buzz about anything after release these days especially when people have already rushed to YouTube to make their demo videos. 

It's all good. I'm sure there are all manner of preset packs and add-ons in the pipeline to generate buzz. Too eafor Labor Day sales, I would think.... But you never know....


----------



## mikah912

Ericjutsu said:


> Well I just play guitar and record my music for fun so no I don't intend on doing anything more with it. I'm just surprised there isn't a lot of posts about it after the release that's all. Obviously I enjoy reading about other people's opinions on gear/software, otherwise I wouldn't frequent discussion forums.


There's not a lot of buzz about anything after release these days especially when people have already rushed to YouTube to make their demo videos.

It's all good. I'm sure there are all manner of preset packs and add-ons in the pipeline to generate buzz. Too early for Labor Day sales, I would think.... But you never know....


----------



## bulb

Ericjutsu said:


> Well I just play guitar and record my music for fun so no I don't intend on doing anything more with it. I'm just surprised there isn't a lot of posts about it after the release that's all. Obviously I enjoy reading about other people's opinions on gear/software, otherwise I wouldn't frequent discussion forums.



Sorry to disappoint you pal, it’s not really cool to like any of my products on this forum. If you do, you will get accused of being a duplicate account of mine or a Russian bot or something.

Tread carefully and just have fun with it!


----------



## bulb

Ericjutsu said:


> Well I just play guitar and record my music for fun so no I don't intend on doing anything more with it. I'm just surprised there isn't a lot of posts about it after the release that's all. Obviously I enjoy reading about other people's opinions on gear/software, otherwise I wouldn't frequent discussion forums.



Sorry to disappoint you pal, it’s not really cool to like any of my products on this forum. If you do, you will get accused of being a duplicate account of mine or a Russian bot or something.

Tread carefully and just have fun with it!


----------



## mikah912

bulb said:


> Sorry to disappoint you pal, it’s not really cool to like any of my products on this forum. If you do, you will get accused of being a duplicate account of mine or a Russian bot or something.
> 
> Tread carefully and just have fun with it!



Wouldn't sweat a few anonymous posters. You're just a lightning rod these days because you seem to have this weird notion of multiple streams of entrpreneural income so you can enjoy a decent quality of life. Lots of cats would kill to get the same attention for a commercial release of their amp and fx VSTs.


----------



## Ericjutsu

bulb said:


> Sorry to disappoint you pal, it’s not really cool to like any of my products on this forum. If you do, you will get accused of being a duplicate account of mine or a Russian bot or something.
> 
> Tread carefully and just have fun with it!



Well I suppose there is some disappointment because for me, talking about and reading about gear is part of the fun for me. I enjoy the plugin though and am glad I bought it. This is coming from someone who does not have a lot of money so it's about the biggest compliment I can give when I say I'm glad I spent my money on it. I'm sure JST will release more videos on it or something down the line anyways.


----------



## vertibration

I started using it with Cab Lab, and a few of the new ML packs. I think Cab Lab reaaaally makes a bit of difference. I also like how you can disable the Cab section without forfeiting the rest of the chain. The JR toneforge suffers from that problem. Glad Misha's plugin doesn't have that issue. Not knocking JST cabs but I just love the ML stuff


----------



## Sean Richardson

I think to use it at this stage with "external" IRs is a little early. I started using the plug in yesterday and was initially underwhelmed, but... 

...the secret is the big arse gain knob in the middle of the GUI... its more like a voicing control (3 variants of 4 x voicing). Play with that and the PD emulation as you would set up a real Precision Drive as a boost (I was an early adopter and own the real thing). BAMM. 

if you want different IR flavour, move away from the "matched" and use the Zilla or the Peavey IR included.

Its now a different beast... very good amp sounds (and I own a Helix and have had 2 x AXEFX2s over the years, also a big user of Amplitube and ReValver).

Also the reverb is excellent BUT is CPU hungry so beware of bogging down your system.

Presently running as an AU in a MainStage Session - then feeding Helix via USB for Reverb and Delay on HX - then into a set of HS8s and its lots of fun.

(have also preordered the new Fortin plug in - times are a good for VST/AU plug ins right now - will be interesting to compare)


----------



## Sean Richardson

now... gotta add Misha Bot to my sig


----------



## Ericjutsu

Sean Richardson said:


> I think to use it at this stage with "external" IRs is a little early. I started using the plug in yesterday and was initially underwhelmed, but...
> 
> ...the secret is the big arse gain knob in the middle of the GUI... its more like a voicing control (3 variants of 4 x voicing). Play with that and the PD emulation as you would set up a real Precision Drive as a boost (I was an early adopter and own the real thing). BAMM.
> 
> if you want different IR flavour, move away from the "matched" and use the Zilla or the Peavey IR included.
> 
> Its now a different beast... very good amp sounds (and I own a Helix and have had 2 x AXEFX2s over the years, also a big user of Amplitube and ReValver).
> 
> Also the reverb is excellent BUT is CPU hungry so beware of bogging down your system.
> 
> Presently running as an AU in a MainStage Session - then feeding Helix via USB for Reverb and Delay on HX - then into a set of HS8s and its lots of fun.
> 
> (have also preordered the new Fortin plug in - times are a good for VST/AU plug ins right now - will be interesting to compare)


I agree about the gain knob. It made a big difference just switching the gain stage (not voicing). Do you engage the magic button btw?


----------



## Sean Richardson

Ericjutsu said:


> I agree about the gain knob. It made a big difference just switching the gain stage (not voicing). Do you engage the magic button btw?



I cant find the magic button on the GUI. I can see it in the PDF manual but it ain’t there on the screen.

My wife often curses me for not finding the magic button as well...


----------



## Flappydoodle

mikah912 said:


> There's not a lot of buzz about anything after release these days especially when people have already rushed to YouTube to make their demo videos.
> 
> It's all good. I'm sure there are all manner of preset packs and add-ons in the pipeline to generate buzz. Too eafor Labor Day sales, I would think.... But you never know....



GetGood drums just sent out an email with 25% off for Labour day (what that has to do with a software plugin, I have no idea).

And JST spam the shit out of you with emails, some of them including codes for money off.

So yeah, this will almost certainly be discounted at some point. Once sales slow down, and there's some sort of national holiday as an excuse, you'll get an email.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Sean Richardson said:


> I cant find the magic button on the GUI. I can see it in the PDF manual but it ain’t there on the screen.
> 
> My wife often curses me for not finding the magic button as well...



Press the "Signal Path" letters on the bottom of the GUI


----------



## Sean Richardson

Ericjutsu said:


> Press the "Signal Path" letters on the bottom of the GUI


got it... its on


----------



## TheUnknownOne

Is it heavy on CPU ? I might give it a try, but I've been pretty disappointed with JST amp sims. Never found something as polyvalent and natural sounding for metal than Emissary + various Rosen impulses and a bit of EQ


----------



## Ericjutsu

TheUnknownOne said:


> Is it heavy on CPU ? I might give it a try, but I've been pretty disappointed with JST amp sims. Never found something as polyvalent and natural sounding for metal than Emissary + various Rosen impulses and a bit of EQ


I haven't noticed any issues with CPU use for me. I can track with it at a 64 buffer size with all the effects engaged on the plugin. I haven't noticed my CPU being bogged down any more than with other amp sims. I haven't actually looked at any meters or anything though.


----------



## Vyn

I've got to find the source, but apparently someone made a review of the plugin that was less than positive and JST claimed copyright infringement to get it pulled from YouTube. If it's true, that's dodgey as fuck.


----------



## Kaura

Vyn said:


> I've got to find the source, but apparently someone made a review of the plugin that was less than positive and JST claimed copyright infringement to get it pulled from YouTube. If it's true, that's dodgey as fuck.



I'm not much of a source but last night I watched some video that was titled something along "TONEFORGE MISHA MANSOOR SUCKS AND HERE'S WHY". Can't find it anymore. Kinda weird that it got deleted since Joey himself commented on the video something like "Too bad you didn't like it unlike many other people on our forums".

The video itself. Well... It was nice to hear a honest, unpaid, unbiased review but the guy could have maybe been a bit mature about it instead of just slinging very lowbrow insults towards the product.


----------



## Vyn

Found the video (or what remains of it)


----------



## fob

Kaura said:


> I'm not much of a source but last night I watched some video that was titled something along "TONEFORGE MISHA MANSOOR SUCKS AND HERE'S WHY". Can't find it anymore. Kinda weird that it got deleted since Joey himself commented on the video something like "Too bad you didn't like it unlike many other people on our forums".
> 
> The video itself. Well... It was nice to hear a honest, unpaid, unbiased review but the guy could have maybe been a bit mature about it instead of just slinging very lowbrow insults towards the product.


I just can’t help but think people saying this stuff to extreme degrees just really have no idea what the fuck they’re doing as far as dialing in tones. Is any plugin the end all? No. Can you get a really good sound with just about any reasonable plugin just depending on time and tweaking? I think so. The JST amp sims might not be everyone’s flavor of amp sim, but they’re far from bad and far from unusable. I feel like the bandwagon swings both ways in extremes around certain things. 

Objectivity gets lost in all cases of extremes the majority of the time IMO. The seasoned players can have a tendency think to think nothing beats (insert old ass gear here) and the new players can have a tendency to think the newest thing gets the job done and is the magic piece they need. Both of these are right and wrong but it’s always a variable, starting first and foremost with who’s hands are playing the instrument being the biggest factor.


----------



## vertibration

Thats wack that a negative review video got taken down. Good or bad, you gotta let people say what they gotta say. Glen Fricker trashed Line 6, and his video didn't get taken down. I mean, damn man....Even when there are negative reviews for something, you gotta let people bounce back who like the product, and comment on the video defending it. Its dialog....It means people are talking about it

Floyd Mayweather said "Whether you love me, or hate me, what matters is you are talking about me" 

Its about staying relevant, and when you take down a video like that, it only makes you look bad, like you can't handle criticism. 

I think the Misha plugin sounds great!!!! Many also feel the same way, but if someone doesn't think its great, let them say or post whatever, who cares


----------



## narad

vertibration said:


> Floyd Mayweather said "Whether you love me, or hate me, what matters is you are talking about me"



The business model of selling boxing tickets and pay-per-view does not exactly apply to the world of guitar software.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

narad said:


> The business model of selling boxing tickets and pay-per-view does not exactly apply to the world of guitar software.



How so?


----------



## narad

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> How so?



Assuming you already know and just want to listen to me talk, but: If you like a guy, you want to pay to see him win. If you hate a guy, you want to pay to see him lose. But both boxers profit either way, so there really is no such thing as negative attention in boxing, and this is certainly why a lot of boxers/wrestlers etc. ramp up their personalities.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Ah. Alright. I’m sorry; I still don’t follow. Who’s getting paid to beat up Misha, and how is Ted DiBiase involved?


----------



## narad

Andrew Lloyd Webber said:


> Ah. Alright. I’m sorry; I still don’t follow. Who’s getting paid to beat up Misha, and how is Ted DiBiase involved?



Jeez, I don't have the time to rehash all the points of distinction between the two scenarios so I suggest you just find out for yourself THIS SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY at the NO HOLDS BAR PLUGIN SHOWDOWN. Find out WHO WILL BE VICTORIOUS as we SETTLE THE SCORE with FIRST BLOOD rules in THE CAAAAGGE.


----------



## bulb

You guys are always ridiculous, but this is a new level and it’s super entertaining!

Who is Ted DiBiase?


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber




----------



## fob

These threads have turned into train wrecks off topic... lol I love them.


----------



## JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

vertibration said:


> Thats wack that a negative review video got taken down. Good or bad, you gotta let people say what they gotta say. Glen Fricker trashed Line 6, and his video didn't get taken down.



Glenn's Fearless Gear reviews might be the bravest thing I've ever seen. Line 6 Spider is shit? No one's ever said that before!


----------



## prlgmnr

fob said:


> These threads have turned into train wrecks off topic... lol I love them.


Anyone made a Trainwreck vst?


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Getting negative reviews pulled?
I was never against JST stuff but I definitely am now. 
That's super shady and I would never support a business that's as dodgy and untrustworthy as that.


----------



## bulb

OliOliver said:


> Glenn's Fearless Gear reviews might be the bravest thing I've ever seen. Line 6 Spider is shit? No one's ever said that before!


18 Strings is too much. There, I said it!


----------



## Seabeast2000

prlgmnr said:


> Anyone made a Trainwreck vst?


I think you need to pre-order to find out?


----------



## Vyn




----------



## Soya




----------



## Kaura

If there's anything good about this plugin, it's the spicy memes and drama surrounding it.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Looks like Joey Sturgis has made a baaaaaad move


----------



## KnightBrolaire

can't wait to see how this drama goes down


----------



## axxessdenied

Apparently he's making a new video to address the "issue".

The only issue I see here is filing a copyright claim to force the video to be taken down until he responds to the claim. The dude didn't even get that many views on his videos. Now everyone is talking about it. BAAAD press. Makes me rethink my URM subscription... lol.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Wow that seems super lame if true. I really like Joey Sturgis as a producer and plugin guy.


----------



## Flappydoodle

OliOliver said:


> Glenn's Fearless Gear reviews might be the bravest thing I've ever seen. Line 6 Spider is shit? No one's ever said that before!



LOL yup. And it also makes it even more obvious that a normal ‘lets check out blah blah’ is nothing but a paid ad.


----------



## Flappydoodle

OliOliver said:


> Glenn's Fearless Gear reviews might be the bravest thing I've ever seen. Line 6 Spider is shit? No one's ever said that before!



LOL yup. And it also makes it even more obvious that a normal ‘lets check out blah blah’ is nothing but a paid ad.


----------



## FILTHnFEAR

I've never used a plug-in, don't know jack about them, and don't know if I ever will, but I've thoroughly enjoyed reading these 7 pages of gold.

Thank you all.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Flappydoodle said:


> LOL yup. And it also makes it even more obvious that a normal ‘lets check out blah blah’ is nothing but a paid ad.



He actually did a review here recently and I was surprised to see that his verdict was negative. It was the automatic tuner device or whatever.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

Flappydoodle said:


> LOL yup. And it also makes it even more obvious that a normal ‘lets check out blah blah’ is nothing but a paid ad.


glenn fricker is as much of a paid shill as the rest of the big demoers (especially Agufish/Fluff). Anyone remember the bullshit with Fluff years ago when he was all like "panama amps are teh greatest, buy them!" and then pivoted 180 degrees and called them trash?
I'll watch their demos but I won't listen to their opinions on gear, especially when they were all acting like bias wasn't a steaming pile of dogshit because they were getting paid.


----------



## fob

KnightBrolaire said:


> glenn fricker is as much of a paid shill as the rest of the big demoers (especially Agufish/Fluff). Anyone remember the bullshit with Fluff years ago when he was all like "panama amps are teh greatest, buy them!" and then pivoted 180 degrees and called them trash?
> I'll watch their demos but I won't listen to their opinions on gear, especially when they were all acting like bias wasn't a steaming pile of dogshit because they were getting paid.


Agreed. I watch demos for sound, not opinions. Ola does a great job of demonstrating sounded WHILE talking. If you’re video is you talking most of it I’m not gonna watch your demos anymore.


----------



## bulb

fob said:


> Agreed. I watch demos for sound, not opinions. Ola does a great job of demonstrating sounded WHILE talking. If you’re video is you talking most of it I’m not gonna watch your demos anymore.



Exactly! That’s why I always make sure to hire Ola for all the products I can. He’s one of the best ever!


----------



## narad

KnightBrolaire said:


> when they were all acting like bias wasn't a steaming pile of dogshit because they were getting paid.



That's why I only listen to unbiased gear reviews.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

narad said:


> That's why I only listen to unbiased gear reviews.








I love how that moniker has become ironic and oxymoronic at this point. At least the other big demoers don't claim to be "unbiased". All i needed to see was arnold's multiple videos where he's verbally fellating ormsby guitars to really sell me on how unbiased he is.


----------



## fob

KnightBrolaire said:


> I love how that moniker has become ironic and oxymoronic at this point. At least the other big demoers don't claim to be "unbiased". All i needed to see was arnold's multiple videos where he's verbally fellating ormsby guitars to really sell me on how unbiased he is.


I mean anyone who has done research on human bias knows that there really isn’t such a thing... there’s objectivity but that’s not the same and there’s still some bias in that. What standards are your objectivity based on and to what degree and why? That’s your bias and that’s in everyone.


----------



## axxessdenied

KnightBrolaire said:


> I love how that moniker has become ironic and oxymoronic at this point. At least the other big demoers don't claim to be "unbiased". All i needed to see was arnold's multiple videos where he's verbally fellating ormsby guitars to really sell me on how unbiased he is.


It's unbiased because he funds all the gear himself. He can still be a fan of certain companies like any other human being.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

axxessdenied said:


> It's unbiased because he funds all the gear himself. He can still be a fan of certain companies like any other human being.


It's not unbiased though, because I know for a fact that some of the stuff he demos is because the manufacturer contacted him about reviewing it (ie elysian obsidian set, omega pickups sets). I have nothing against being a fanboy or enjoying a company's products, it's more that he set himself up for failure by trying to claim that his reviews are inherently less biased than others. Nearly everything demoers talk about in reviews are subjective and he's the same in that aspect. It's a misnomer to claim that his reviews are unbiased.


fob said:


> I mean anyone who has done research on human bias knows that there really isn’t such a thing... there’s objectivity but that’s not the same and there’s still some bias in that. What standards are your objectivity based on and to what degree and why? That’s your bias and that’s in everyone.


 Without quantitative evidence it's hard to actually give a relatively impartial opinion on anything, especially when it comes to something quite subjective like neck profiles/fret edges/setup preferences or other areas concerning guitars that gear nerds like us discuss. It'd be a bit more objective if he just threw out measurements and eq graphs, then played some riffs to let people decide for themselves if the product is worth their time, but I doubt he or his fans care about him being objective at this point.


----------



## bulb

narad said:


> That's why I only listen to unbiased gear reviews.


top kek indeed


----------



## Flappydoodle

KnightBrolaire said:


> I love how that moniker has become ironic and oxymoronic at this point. At least the other big demoers don't claim to be "unbiased". All i needed to see was arnold's multiple videos where he's verbally fellating ormsby guitars to really sell me on how unbiased he is.



Depends how you define "unbiased"

He made a video recently about this. Everybody can have likes and dislikes. If there was no opinion at all, it wouldn't be a review. And in this industry, a totally objective review is impossible - you might as well read a spec sheet. 

He likes Aristides and Ormsby, it's true. And he's quite open that he has friends at both companies, thus putting him into some "conflict of interest". But on the plus side, he's not afraid to criticise at least. I've seen far more criticism from him in one video than I've seen in 10 of Ola's, Fluff etc where they rave about whoever has just paid them.

At the worst, Arnold said that he has simply refused to do a review for things where he might be conflicted - like if Ormsby sent him a shit guitar. That's selection bias I suppose, but IMO that still makes him better than 99% of the "reviewers" out there who really do nothing but make paid advertisements.

I think the only person who could really give totally unbiased reviews is somebody rich who gives no fucks. As soon as you need to make money from YouTube, or rely on people sending you stuff, you become "compromised".


----------



## narad

Flappydoodle said:


> Depends how you define "unbiased"
> 
> He made a video recently about this. Everybody can have likes and dislikes. If there was no opinion at all, it wouldn't be a review. And in this industry, a totally objective review is impossible - you might as well read a spec sheet.
> 
> He likes Aristides and Ormsby, it's true. And he's quite open that he has friends at both companies, thus putting him into some "conflict of interest". But on the plus side, he's not afraid to criticise at least. I've seen far more criticism from him in one video than I've seen in 10 of Ola's, Fluff etc where they rave about whoever has just paid them.
> 
> At the worst, Arnold said that he has simply refused to do a review for things where he might be conflicted - like if Ormsby sent him a shit guitar. That's selection bias I suppose, but IMO that still makes him better than 99% of the "reviewers" out there who really do nothing but make paid advertisements.
> 
> I think the only person who could really give totally unbiased reviews is somebody rich who gives no fucks. As soon as you need to make money from YouTube, or rely on people sending you stuff, you become "compromised".



If you're buying stuff because someone told you to, you're gonna have a bad time. Do you go to the car dealer, "how does it drive?" "Like a dream" "I'll take it!"? 

There doesn't need to be an "unbiased" demo, there just needs to be demos from people who know how to make use of the product. And in that regard, I'll take Ola demos every time. The product isn't going to sound different just because someone got paid to take the time to make a demo for it.


----------



## Flappydoodle

narad said:


> If you're buying stuff because someone told you to, you're gonna have a bad time. Do you go to the car dealer, "how does it drive?" "Like a dream" "I'll take it!"?
> 
> There doesn't need to be an "unbiased" demo, there just needs to be demos from people who know how to make use of the product. And in that regard, I'll take Ola demos every time. The product isn't going to sound different just because someone got paid to take the time to make a demo for it.



Where did I say I make buying decisions based on it? I've said all along that demo'ing something for yourself is the best. A good review will not make me rush out and buy that product, but it's a set of views worth considering, that might inform my own opinions, tell me things to look out for etc.

Also, in your analogy, the paid YouTube shills *are* the car dealer. What I value is an independent reviewer who can give an honest opinion - though sadly, it seems hard to come by..

So yeah, I do value peoples' honest opinions. That includes their observations about the quality of something, the user experience, and of course what they could do with it (like what sound they could get etc). The "opinion" of a shill, paid to make sure they include all the key points they were given by the manufacturer, is worthless. And we all know that sound demos can be incredibly mis-leading. 

If I'm supposed to guess at whether Ola liked something by how many burps he did, or his enthusiasm isn't quite as high for product X as Y, that's worthless. He might be having a bad day, be tired, or whatever. If something is shit, or you're having a hard time getting a good sound out of a product, have the balls to say it. At least Arnold does that, and he openly admits when he "conflicts".


----------



## Decapitated

I watch a lot of Youtube reviewers and make my own decisions. At the end of the day, I'm still gonna sound like me anyway, no matter what I buy.


----------



## bulb

Decapitated said:


> I watch a lot of Youtube reviewers and make my own decisions. At the end of the day, I'm still gonna sound like me anyway, no matter what I buy.



It’s almost like you are a reasonable consumer!


----------



## Siggevaio

When skilled people demo products I never think that's how it's gonna sound when I get to play it, but more to see what the potential of the product is. I know it won't sound as good with my stuff but if it sounds shit when experienced people like Misha or Ola demo products I know that it will sound bad when I use it.  

So mostly, for me, gear demos are only for the enjoyment of watching someone I like play some guitar.


----------



## Ericjutsu

Siggevaio said:


> When skilled people demo products I never think that's how it's gonna sound when I get to play it, but more to see what the potential of the product is. I know it won't sound as good with my stuff but if it sounds shit when experienced people like Misha or Ola demo products I know that it will sound bad when I use it.
> 
> So mostly, for me, gear demos are only for the enjoyment of watching someone I like play some guitar.


I like to watch them sometimes to get me more excited about purchasing something I already plan to buy.


----------



## bulb

Ericjutsu said:


> I like to watch them sometimes to get me more excited about purchasing something I already plan to buy.



I agree so much with this...


----------



## Dawn of the Shred




----------



## fob

Dawn of the Shred said:


>



Damn... well the dude has fucking balls and I agree with everything he said. I hope it does work out for everyone and everyone can learn from this and make the community better. Bravo to JST for not doubling down and actually admiting to it. Whether it’s for looks or not, I think it is sincere like he said. 

And I REALLY hope the CEO of a certain company is who I am thinking it is because that would be super cool of this particular person if so. Must of made this dudes year to have kinda support.


----------



## Vyn

Dawn of the Shred said:


>




I'm not buying anything from that company again. That's beyond fucked.


----------



## Kaura

All I can say after that video is I just feel like JST caused a "Streisand effect" by taking the dude's video down. In best case scenario for them, not that many people would've even seen the video or based their purchase on it. This whole thing just gave them bad rep and halfway through the (new) video I thought that I would never spend another dime on their products. But the way the dude put it and said that if they can work it out in the end then cool. 

Still, kinda unprofessional on both parts. The guy should've voiced his opinion in a more mature manner than he did in the original video but on the other hand JS should've just sticked with the comment he left saying that other people had gotten better results with the product instead of just shutting down the video based on false copyright infringement.


----------



## KnightBrolaire

that's a shit situation. I'd heard very mixed reviews about previous JST plugins, so seeing them trying to damage control with smr's vid is interesting. 
that being said, i can't believe he seriously recited the 7 army values on camera


----------



## oracles

That's some pretty shady stuff from the JST camp. I have no stake in this because I dont own, nor do I want to own his products, but this is a really bad look for them. Interested to see how this plays out.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Isn't it kinda weird that they released this near the release of the Apex Preamp?

I wonder how many sales have been cannibalized as a result of the overlap.


----------



## bulb

LeviathanKiller said:


> Isn't it kinda weird that they released this near the release of the Apex Preamp?
> 
> I wonder how many sales have been cannibalized as a result of the overlap.



There is no certain way to know, but I’m just happy both campaigns were successful, I had rather lofty goals for both and they were both easily exceeded, so I feel like wondering how much more we could have gotten is perhaps a bit greedy.

Could definitely have been bad, but ultimately they are two very different products even if they have some overlap in their use.


----------



## LeviathanKiller




----------



## Don Tonberry




----------



## Flappydoodle

Don Tonberry said:


>




I'm not buying it, lol

He made a pretty gross PR statement on that guy's YouTube channel, about valuing the community of artists blah blah. More like "oops, I got called out, it's blowing up, and now I'm doing damage control".

He said the right words, but this just reeks of insincerity. Not to mention the clickbait title, the deliberately handheld camera to make it feel more "real", all the dramatic pauses, the constant face touching... nah.


----------



## bulb

Flappydoodle said:


> I'm not buying it, lol
> 
> He made a pretty gross PR statement on that guy's YouTube channel, about valuing the community of artists blah blah. More like "oops, I got called out, it's blowing up, and now I'm doing damage control".
> 
> He said the right words, but this just reeks of insincerity. Not to mention the clickbait title, the deliberately handheld camera to make it feel more "real", all the dramatic pauses, the constant face touching... nah.



So...you aren't gonna buy the plugin?


----------



## fob

bulb said:


> So...you aren't gonna buy the plugin?


I think what he’s trying to say is that he is not gonna buy the plugin. Could be wrong...


I mean that video seems sincere to me. Just straight up said he didn’t like the review and flagged it in basically an emotional state and then referred it. I’ve done that plenty of times and still do I just, thankfully, haven’t had the fallout of a huge community watching my human mistake in my emotional state. Everyone fucks up. It’s how you handle it that shows who you really are imo, and both parties of this showed a lot of character and humility in the end. 

Huge balls on both parts to me and I’m glad it seems to be working out.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

While I don't agree with the guys review it was a terrible idea to abuse the copyright strike system so it got removed. This happens all the time in the gaming industry and it never ends well.


----------



## Kaura

Don Tonberry said:


>




Wow. Didn't think he'd actually come clean. This has been one hell of a spicy ride since the plugin got released.


----------



## axxessdenied

What could he say without sounding like he wasn't bullshitting? We all know the truth. It's right there, plain as day. He's responding to save face. Kudos for having the balls to do it, he should have posted an apology before Ray even had a chance to post his video, IMO!

There's just too many red flags to feel like it was sincere.

I bet a lot of bigger content creators will be weary of working with JST now even after this apology.


----------



## Vyn

Don Tonberry said:


>




Definitely "I got called out, now trying to save face." In one of the email exchanges with SMR an option was mentioned to get in touch with the customer support team to help with getting a better tone. This should have been the first and only response to the initial review, not flagging it for copyright. It was a bullshit, childish move.

Fuck JST, fuck the plugin. Not buying the apology or the plugin.


----------



## DudeManBrother

It was a bad move to try and scrub the negative reviews for sure; but it seems a bit childish to trash talk a plug-in because of the developers antics. It just seems like a soap box temper tantrum, similar to all those people burning their Nikes because Colin Kaepernick has a new deal with them. 

People seem too quick to jump into a lynching. Dude wants to make money with his newly released product, and did something he thought was clever, but turned out to be pretty stupid. He got caught and apologized. None of this has any effect on the quality of the plug-in. 

If his actions were really that offensive to you, then don’t buy the product. That’s at least an understandable reaction. Once people start publicly insulting the guy, his company, and his product, and declaring that they refuse to buy this, or any future products etc. it just becomes low brow in my opinion. 

I’m sure this opinion will get attacked too haha. Maybe this belongs in the Unpopular Opinions section.


----------



## Vyn

DudeManBrother said:


> It was a bad move to try and scrub the negative reviews for sure; but it seems a bit childish to trash talk a plug-in because of the developers antics. It just seems like a soap box temper tantrum, similar to all those people burning their Nikes because Colin Kaepernick has a new deal with them.
> 
> People seem too quick to jump into a lynching. Dude wants to make money with his newly released product, and did something he thought was clever, but turned out to be pretty stupid. He got caught and apologized. None of this has any effect on the quality of the plug-in.
> 
> If his actions were really that offensive to you, then don’t buy the product. That’s at least an understandable reaction. Once people start publicly insulting the guy, his company, and his product, and declaring that they refuse to buy this, or any future products etc. it just becomes low brow in my opinion.
> 
> I’m sure this opinion will get attacked too haha. Maybe this belongs in the Unpopular Opinions section.



I can see where you're coming from. I'm probably coming off as rather childish myself on this. I've been eyeing off various JST plugins for a while (the Jason Richardson pack, the cab IRs, the compressors etc), most of the reviews seemed fantastic on all that was offered. When the Misha plugin was announced I thought it would be a great way to try a JST plugin out for myself (I've messed around with a BKP -> boost -> 5150ish/clone -> V30 cab signal chain enough to be able to have a reference) and possibly get more plugins following that based on my experience with it. Waited for some reviews to come out made by paying consumers (not just YTers who had gotten the plugin for free) and then this happens. I'm probably being unreasonable but I'm a little pissed on a personal level.

-steps off soap box-


----------



## DudeManBrother

Vyn said:


> I can see where you're coming from. I'm probably coming off as rather childish myself on this. I've been eyeing off various JST plugins for a while (the Jason Richardson pack, the cab IRs, the compressors etc), most of the reviews seemed fantastic on all that was offered. When the Misha plugin was announced I thought it would be a great way to try a JST plugin out for myself (I've messed around with a BKP -> boost -> 5150ish/clone -> V30 cab signal chain enough to be able to have a reference) and possibly get more plugins following that based on my experience with it. Waited for some reviews to come out made by paying consumers (not just YTers who had gotten the plugin for free) and then this happens. I'm probably being unreasonable but I'm a little pissed on a personal level.
> 
> -steps off soap box-


I think your response says more about your character than getting caught up by the mob


----------



## vertibration

I agree with the guy, if you watch Jason Richardsons Taylor Larson video of Taylor going back to back with Jasons recording of his album, the plugin sounds spot on....Its because its tailored to his guitar, and PRS Archon!! Misha's plugin is tailored to his guitars, and his "RECORDED" tones that he has used in the past. That was already made clear, so getting that great sound from an "Amp match" style plugin is going to be on the tougher side. Im not saying they used some sort of Amp match technology, but I do think these JST plugins are set up for a specific signal chain. So I agree with the dude who made the bad review video that he felt compelled to write a bad review because the plugin didn't sit well with his setup. 
With that being said, his review video is back up, and thats fair. I think its fair for people to let it go, and move on. I think JS learned a lesson, and maybe moving forward this helps to locate some problem areas with his plugins, and make some adjustments so they sound better with a more diverse setup range


----------



## narad

You know, forgive the guy. We're emotional beings. It's only natural that at times you violate youtube policy to silence your critics. I think we've all had those moments where maybe you copied your friend's homework assignment, or lied to your parents about where you were, or found yourselves being contacted by Youtube's lawyers after days of brushing off the courteous email messages of the guy whose opinion you tried to bury through abuse of copyright policy.

C'mon, he's not that guy. The thing he did is _not _the kind of thing him and his company stands for. I'd hate for him to have to be associated with this sort of thing!


----------



## MaxOfMetal

narad said:


> You know, forgive the guy. We're emotional beings. It's only natural that at times you violate youtube policy to silence your critics. I think we've all had those moments where maybe you copied your friend's homework assignment, or lied to your parents about where you were, or found yourselves being contacted by Youtube's lawyers after days of brushing off the courteous email messages of the guy whose opinion you tried to bury through abuse of copyright policy.
> 
> C'mon, he's not that guy. The thing he did is _not _the kind of thing him and his company stands for. I'd hate for him to have to be associated with this sort of thing!





Ambien's side effects have been well documented.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Vyn said:


> most of the reviews seemed fantastic on all that was offered.



This has been my major complain for ages. ALL reviews are good, because they aren't real "reviews". They are ads. It's apparently up to us to try and read between the lines of their vague statements, facial expressions and how many burps they did to try and gauge their real level of enthusiasm. Giving an actual opinion is too much to ask.

And when a guy with a tiny channel DID buy it himself, review it and criticise it, the CEO of the company tried to fuck him over. 

For the record, I *did* buy JST Menace, and some cab impulses. I paid $10 for Menace as a spontaneous purchase while it was on a flash sale. I didn't like it at all, and it didn't live up to the hype and all the glowing reviews. Glad I didn't pay the full price of $100+ for it.


----------



## GunpointMetal

Of course YouTube reviews are almost always good. People don't send you stuff to review if you're constantly bashing products. I've known a few people who have had the opportunity to do reviews of products and simply returned them because rather than creating a bad review, they just don't do it to avoid putting off any other potential businesses from offering products. I was writing albums reviews for The Sludgelord blog for awhile and we were instructed to simply pass off anything we didn't like to another reviewer. No bad reviews, so people would keep submitting music.


----------



## Flappydoodle

GunpointMetal said:


> Of course YouTube reviews are almost always good. People don't send you stuff to review if you're constantly bashing products. I've known a few people who have had the opportunity to do reviews of products and simply returned them because rather than creating a bad review, they just don't do it to avoid putting off any other potential businesses from offering products. I was writing albums reviews for The Sludgelord blog for awhile and we were instructed to simply pass off anything we didn't like to another reviewer. No bad reviews, so people would keep submitting music.



Of course. And when you have a "business" model that relies on people sending you stuff, this is naturally going to happen. I'm not suggesting any mass campaign of trying to deceive people - it's just the way they can keep making videos and keep money flowing in. Just means that we can't really trust any "reviews", aside from opinions/clips from people without vested interests.


----------



## axxessdenied

DudeManBrother said:


> It was a bad move to try and scrub the negative reviews for sure; but it seems a bit childish to trash talk a plug-in because of the developers antics. It just seems like a soap box temper tantrum, similar to all those people burning their Nikes because Colin Kaepernick has a new deal with them.
> 
> People seem too quick to jump into a lynching. Dude wants to make money with his newly released product, and did something he thought was clever, but turned out to be pretty stupid. He got caught and apologized. None of this has any effect on the quality of the plug-in.
> 
> If his actions were really that offensive to you, then don’t buy the product. That’s at least an understandable reaction. Once people start publicly insulting the guy, his company, and his product, and declaring that they refuse to buy this, or any future products etc. it just becomes low brow in my opinion.
> 
> I’m sure this opinion will get attacked too haha. Maybe this belongs in the Unpopular Opinions section.


Nah, I run a business where people will go somewhere else for much smaller mistakes. So what if he wants to bad mouth a product? It's his youtube page that he posts for others entertainment. 
Ultimately you have to speak with your money. Business practices like this are disgusting and as a fellow business owner I am ashamed that he would treat his customers like that. Your customers are the people putting money in your pocket. Appreciate them, don't be a little bitch. If your product isn't meeting expectations of customers... DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Don't just try to hide the fact that you released a shitty product. Patch it, put out some instructional videos, etc. There are much better solutions than acting like a little child because your ego got bruised.


----------



## Flappydoodle

Haha, so now Fluff's video demo has gone. Deleted.

He posted some weird comment on Ray's channel (guy who Joey falsely copyright reported) saying that the video was never meant to stay online because it was only a "first look to promote the end of the pre-sale".

First of all, nice of him to admit that it was a straight-up promotion.

Second of all, worst excuse ever. He deleted it because the comments were full of people saying it sounded like utter shit. And knowing Joey, he probably complained.


----------



## makecamera

Sounds pretty solid to me. Especially in the mix.


----------



## Edika

I saw Ray's original video that got reinstated and his criticism is over the top. I didn't find the sound terrible though but it was quite a bit bassy. I disagree with his opinion of plugins being easier to get a good sound of than amps. Whenever I tried plugin I had the exact opposite, having to tweak excessively to get a decent, passable sound versus a few minutes on an amp to get a great sound. The difference is that on the plugin you're getting the "recorded" sound. As individual plugins now are about $99-$150 a pop, with a few extra's as this one, they rival good sounding analog products so an opportunity to demo the product before buying to be sure the consumer can get along with the product is the best course for me but I'm not sure most of these plugins offer that aside from a preorder/discount price. Obviously people can make this and other plugins sound amazing. A lot of people managed to make Bias sound good though lol.


----------



## axxessdenied

Edika said:


> I saw Ray's original video that got reinstated and his criticism is over the top. I didn't find the sound terrible though but it was quite a bit bassy. I disagree with his opinion of plugins being easier to get a good sound of than amps. Whenever I tried plugin I had the exact opposite, having to tweak excessively to get a decent, passable sound versus a few minutes on an amp to get a great sound. The difference is that on the plugin you're getting the "recorded" sound. As individual plugins now are about $99-$150 a pop, with a few extra's as this one, they rival good sounding analog products so an opportunity to demo the product before buying to be sure the consumer can get along with the product is the best course for me but I'm not sure most of these plugins offer that aside from a preorder/discount price. Obviously people can make this and other plugins sound amazing. A lot of people managed to make Bias sound good though lol.


https://kazrogplugins.com/amember/product/thermionik $50 for 30 amp models that are fantastic and better than any of the toneforge VSTs. That's less than 2 bucks a model.


----------



## axxessdenied

Or... how about FREE and better? https://www.kvraudio.com/product/emissary-by-ignite-amps


----------



## I play music

Flappydoodle said:


> Haha, so now Fluff's video demo has gone. Deleted.
> 
> He posted some weird comment on Ray's channel (guy who Joey falsely copyright reported) saying that the video was never meant to stay online because it was only a "first look to promote the end of the pre-sale".
> 
> First of all, nice of him to admit that it was a straight-up promotion.
> 
> Second of all, worst excuse ever. He deleted it because the comments were full of people saying it sounded like utter shit. And knowing Joey, he probably complained.


What if the drama is part of the marketing because otherwise guitarists would have already forgotten about the existence of that not so special product in an already saturated market?


----------



## Vyn

axxessdenied said:


> Or... how about FREE and better? https://www.kvraudio.com/product/emissary-by-ignite-amps



FWIW the emissary plugin is fucking amazing. So underrated.


----------



## Ola Englund

I have tried this plugin and made a video of it, it's a great plugin. If you want to get the Misha Mansoor tone and Periphery type of sound, it's spot on.

This message was sponsored by a bag of dicks. Like a lot of them, right in my face.


----------



## Edika

axxessdenied said:


> https://kazrogplugins.com/amember/product/thermionik $50 for 30 amp models that are fantastic and better than any of the toneforge VSTs. That's less than 2 bucks a model.





axxessdenied said:


> Or... how about FREE and better? https://www.kvraudio.com/product/emissary-by-ignite-amps



Thanks man I'll check those out.


----------



## bulb

Ola Englund said:


> I have tried this plugin and made a video of it, it's a great plugin. If you want to get the Misha Mansoor tone and Periphery type of sound, it's spot on.
> 
> This message was sponsored by a bag of dicks. Like a lot of them, right in my face.



Bag of dicks should be clearing Swedish customs in the next few days Ola! Thanks!


----------



## Ericjutsu

Ola Englund said:


> I have tried this plugin and made a video of it, it's a great plugin. If you want to get the Misha Mansoor tone and Periphery type of sound, it's spot on.
> 
> This message was sponsored by a bag of dicks. Like a lot of them, right in my face.


When are you releasing the video?


----------



## vertibration

makecamera said:


> Sounds pretty solid to me. Especially in the mix.




Yea that sounds very good.


----------



## bulb

vertibration said:


> Yea that sounds very good.



It definitely does!!


----------



## lewis

Siiiick new demo showing guitar and bass tones with this beast.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Don't know if anyone check the comments on the "apology" video from Joey but this was the 2nd top comment...

"Hey Joey, you don’t know me.... but we discussed your actions heatedly yesterday amongst a large group of YT content creators and we all agreed that working with you would be out of the question after what you did. Owning up to it like that takes balls. So this is a huge step in the right direction... by attacking a negative review on a small channel, you didn’t just piss off the small channel, but every channel that wants to be able to say what we think. Obviously you know that. I applaud you for making this video... I will share it, just like I shared Ray‘s. Let’s move forward from here." - EytschPi42


----------



## lewis

LeviathanKiller said:


> Don't know if anyone check the comments on the "apology" video from Joey but this was the 2nd top comment...
> 
> "Hey Joey, you don’t know me.... but we discussed your actions heatedly yesterday amongst a large group of YT content creators and we all agreed that working with you would be out of the question after what you did. Owning up to it like that takes balls. So this is a huge step in the right direction... by attacking a negative review on a small channel, you didn’t just piss off the small channel, but every channel that wants to be able to say what we think. Obviously you know that. I applaud you for making this video... I will share it, just like I shared Ray‘s. Let’s move forward from here." - EytschPi42


Cryptic.

What did he do? Lol. First ive heard of any of this.


----------



## fob

lewis said:


> Cryptic.
> 
> What did he do? Lol. First ive heard of any of this.


Start from page one. Make some popcorn too. lol


----------



## Vyn

LeviathanKiller said:


> Don't know if anyone check the comments on the "apology" video from Joey but this was the 2nd top comment...
> 
> "Hey Joey, you don’t know me.... but we discussed your actions heatedly yesterday amongst a large group of YT content creators and we all agreed that working with you would be out of the question after what you did. Owning up to it like that takes balls. So this is a huge step in the right direction... by attacking a negative review on a small channel, you didn’t just piss off the small channel, but every channel that wants to be able to say what we think. Obviously you know that. I applaud you for making this video... I will share it, just like I shared Ray‘s. Let’s move forward from here." - EytschPi42



Oh what I'd do to be a fly on the wall for that conversation - Sounds like quite a few feathers were ruffled hardcore.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I ain't gonna doubt that JS seemed like a douchenozzle throughout all this...

But a "large group of YT content creators"... Sounds like the "YouTube influencer" version of The Kliq.


----------



## vertibration

oooooh wow, I just looked up who wrote that, and he makes lots gear reviews, and has connects. Yea man, haha JS musta been wiping his brow in relief that he apologized


----------



## fob

Nice update just came through for the Toneforge. Good stuff!! Definitely feel like I got my money's worth with follow-ups like this!


----------



## Furyof

Every video I Hear any JST plugin in, it sounds like a thin and frail amp sim. There are some amp sims that don't have this quality. I know it's pretty popular among the first generation of sims to sound hollow, but not anymore.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

vertibration said:


> oooooh wow, I just looked up who wrote that, and he makes lots gear reviews, and has connects. Yea man, haha JS musta been wiping his brow in relief that he apologized



I'm not convinced they aren't still "blacklisting" him. A lot of people figure Joey just did the apology video to avoid being blacklisted by fellow creators and boycotted by customers. I myself lean to that side of things. I'm honestly surprised he didn't have the video monetized with ads. At least he didn't fake cry in the video.

By the way, I feel like StayMetalRay got way too hyped up on all of the attention he got through this. That annoys me greatly. He got really moody/dramatic/serious about something that is just stupid. All of it is stupid.


----------



## narad

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I ain't gonna doubt that JS seemed like a douchenozzle throughout all this...
> 
> But a "large group of YT content creators"... Sounds like the "YouTube influencer" version of The Kliq.



Look out! Nerd patrol!

Typical YouTube influencer behavior of threats and posting in public something that could have just been privately messaged.


----------



## prlgmnr

As Self-Appointed Spokesperson for All Youtube Content Creators, I.....


----------



## Flappydoodle

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I ain't gonna doubt that JS seemed like a douchenozzle throughout all this...
> 
> But a "large group of YT content creators"... Sounds like the "YouTube influencer" version of The Kliq.



Seems like douches all around to me

Ray was an over emotional mess who behaved like a child. I watched the original video once it was reinstated. He was far too over the top, and very emotional, with his hate. And then his video about the take-down was also ridiculous - citing the army code of conduct and all sorts.

Then Joey posted a whole load of cringeworthy PR comments on various channels, and then his over-acted apology video. I was ready for him to break out fake tears at any moment.

And now that German guy attention seeking by posting a comment like that. He's a terrible gear demo guy anyway. Rambling videos, nothing but shilling for Thomann/Harley Benton and whoever will give him free stuff. But apparently it works. That's what we call a good YouTuber these days.

Makes me wonder why I bother watching any of this stuff actually. I might end up just dropping YouTube altogether, much like I did with Facebook. Now that it's not just videos - it's marketing, social media, comments, drama, communities etc... the attention seeking and narcissism is detrimental to our mental health.


----------



## Andrew Lloyd Webber

Henning is just setting the stage for his Guitcon clique of international 40-somethings to mine this controversy for videos about how it affects “the industry” in a story-of-the-week capacity. They’ll condemn it now, with the “update” videos encouraging viewers to give companies a second chance already in the production pipeline for a month from now.

StayMetalRay is going to lose his mind trying to come up with gimmicks to sustain this fleeting boost of sympathy-subs. This day next year, he’ll unironically have a 9/11 anniversary video reminding subscribers and patrons to never forget the false-flag operation perpetrated against his channel.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Everyone was in the wrong here tbh, joey a lot more so. 

Not being good at mixing or dialing in amp sims isn't an excuse to thrash talk a plug-in with a clickbait title/thumbnail. I understand that the guy was disappointed with the out of the box tones for the amount of money he spent but minimal tweaking is needed with this plugin for better tones, 5 mins on the JST FB group would have put him in the right direction. He's now being heavily ridiculed and criticised now on YouTube along with various groups and forums which isn't helping the situation. 

Joey was first helpful, he should have followed through with pointing him towards his FB group or even offering to help personally but he got worked up and filed a false claim, which is illegal to do nowadays because of misuse and of course the worst thing he could have done since it blew up the whole story. 

I know first hand about this having had videos taken down early on YouTube when there was no secure way to counterclaim. It's infuriating and really annoys me that someone in his position would resort to it. Thankfully YouTube have systems in place now. 

In the end basic communication or use of the JST forum could have avoided all this.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands

I'm sorry but I still can't stop cringing at the youtube influencer thing.  like there's some secret illuminati of content creators that determine what can or cant be reviewed. Like... How self obsessed do you have to be to bring that up? 

And yeah everyone in this is just... Ugh. Ray was trying to do his best Glenn Fricker impression by being so damn over the top, hyperbolic, and emotional, especially with the first amendment and army code stuff in the response video. Joey fucking with the system like he did and only apologizing when Youtube tried to step in. Should have just offered to help him in the first place since it sounded like Ray has no damn clue what he's doing in the mixing department. Oh and the """YouTube influencers""" trying to butt into this drama because LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE YO.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

prlgmnr said:


> As Self-Appointed Spokesperson for All Youtube Content Creators, I.....





Flappydoodle said:


> Seems like douches all around to me
> 
> Ray was an over emotional mess who behaved like a child. I watched the original video once it was reinstated. He was far too over the top, and very emotional, with his hate. And then his video about the take-down was also ridiculous - citing the army code of conduct and all sorts.
> 
> Then Joey posted a whole load of cringeworthy PR comments on various channels, and then his over-acted apology video. I was ready for him to break out fake tears at any moment.
> 
> And now that German guy attention seeking by posting a comment like that. He's a terrible gear demo guy anyway. Rambling videos, nothing but shilling for Thomann/Harley Benton and whoever will give him free stuff. But apparently it works. That's what we call a good YouTuber these days.
> 
> Makes me wonder why I bother watching any of this stuff actually. I might end up just dropping YouTube altogether, much like I did with Facebook. Now that it's not just videos - it's marketing, social media, comments, drama, communities etc... the attention seeking and narcissism is detrimental to our mental health.





HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I'm sorry but I still can't stop cringing at the youtube influencer thing.  like there's some secret illuminati of content creators that determine what can or cant be reviewed. Like... How self obsessed do you have to be to bring that up?
> 
> And yeah everyone in this is just... Ugh. Ray was trying to do his best Glenn Fricker impression by being so damn over the top, hyperbolic, and emotional, especially with the first amendment and army code stuff in the response video. Joey fucking with the system like he did and only apologizing when Youtube tried to step in. Should have just offered to help him in the first place since it sounded like Ray has no damn clue what he's doing in the mixing department. Oh and the """YouTube influencers""" trying to butt into this drama because LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE YO.



I don't think EytschPi42 is trying to come off as some authority but rather speaking from the place he happens to be at, which is a content creator with quite a few subscribers. He's one of several music gear people on YouTube that all know each other. I don't think it was like they called together some kind of summit or crazy like that. They all saw what happened, and talked with other people in the industry and somehow that's being turned into some kind of illuminati-type order conspiracy? C'mon. I'm glad some of the well known YT CCs actually spoke up about it and said that's something they aren't willing to deal with. When crap happens from one source, people like to know the other sources they watch (especially if the sources are aware of each other) aren't okay with that unacceptable behavior. I believe his intentions were good. A YouTube channel owner was attacked, other YouTube channel owners talked together about it. All of these channels have the responsibility of doing the right thing but it's usually true that the responsibility (or lack of) has a bigger impact when you have a lot more people being subscribed to you.

I think things are getting overly critical when we start talking about people not originally involved in the false flag incident. Things seem to be devolving into this idea of "everyone is wrong" and "anyone who comments about the issue is also wrong, (especially if you have more than 100 subscribers!!!!!!!)". Screw that.

I've said I wouldn't buy his products. Just because someone more well known than me says they won't deal with him either, doesn't change the reasoning for saying such a thing. When companies do crappy stuff (like BRJ), I'd rather people say something than quietly switch to no longer talking about their stuff. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Don't be a wimp, call out crap when you see it whether you're "famous" or not.

When you produce stuff that gets reviewed, you're putting yourself up for continual review as well.


----------



## Flappydoodle

LeviathanKiller said:


> I don't think EytschPi42 is trying to come off as some authority but rather speaking from the place he happens to be at, which is a content creator with quite a few subscribers. He's one of several music gear people on YouTube that all know each other. I don't think it was like they called together some kind of summit or crazy like that. They all saw what happened, and talked with other people in the industry and somehow that's being turned into some kind of illuminati-type order conspiracy? C'mon. I'm glad some of the well known YT CCs actually spoke up about it and said that's something they aren't willing to deal with. When crap happens from one source, people like to know the other sources they watch (especially if the sources are aware of each other) aren't okay with that unacceptable behavior. I believe his intentions were good. A YouTube channel owner was attacked, other YouTube channel owners talked together about it. All of these channels have the responsibility of doing the right thing but it's usually true that the responsibility (or lack of) has a bigger impact when you have a lot more people being subscribed to you.
> 
> I think things are getting overly critical when we start talking about people not originally involved in the false flag incident. Things seem to be devolving into this idea of "everyone is wrong" and "anyone who comments about the issue is also wrong, (especially if you have more than 100 subscribers!!!!!!!)". Screw that.
> 
> I've said I wouldn't buy his products. Just because someone more well known than me says they won't deal with him either, doesn't change the reasoning for saying such a thing. When companies do crappy stuff (like BRJ), I'd rather people say something than quietly switch to no longer talking about their stuff. That leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Don't be a wimp, call out crap when you see it whether you're "famous" or not.
> 
> When you produce stuff that gets reviewed, you're putting yourself up for continual review as well.



I don't think anybody said there was a secret illuminati-type conspiracy.

But in all fairness, Henning IS part/centre of a group of YouTubers who work together often. They organised GitCon and some other get-togethers. And there were fallings out and drama etc with that too.

I'm incredibly cynical about the whole thing. I think Mr Andrew Lloyd Webber is correct. Even this is just PR on every side. Ray will try to capitalise on the attention he has. And the guys who said they won't work with Joey will soon grant him a "second chance" while waffling about the community and how we all learn together blah blah.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Flappydoodle said:


> I don't think anybody said there was a secret illuminati-type conspiracy.
> 
> But in all fairness, Henning IS part/centre of a group of YouTubers who work together often. They organised GitCon and some other get-togethers. And there were fallings out and drama etc with that too.
> 
> I'm incredibly cynical about the whole thing. I think Mr Andrew Lloyd Webber is correct. Even this is just PR on every side. Ray will try to capitalise on the attention he has. And the guys who said they won't work with Joey will soon grant him a "second chance" while waffling about the community and how we all learn together blah blah.



I meant people are implying that it's some sort of weird group in general. It's just people in the biz who are pretty well known. It seemed like people are reading too much into it.

They have nothing to lose really from giving him a second chance. I do since it's my money. lol
I won't say I wouldn't give another chance far down the road because I've done some stupid stuff in the past myself. To do anything to support him _right now _though would imply supporting his behavior OR make him think that it wasn't as big of a deal it was and that it's something easy to get away with or sluff off. I don't want to support him in any way for a long time.

Could totally be right though that it's a very tricky maneuver to say that we're going to write him off but in the same comment applaud him for his "apology". The truth we'll never know the true intentions of any of these people until crap like this happens or unless we personally know them.


----------



## fob

This is all drama....

You know how many times gaming companies screwed people over and made tons of money off games that were botched and people “boycotted” then, here we are 200 Call of Duty’s later.

If you have a legitiment criticism, voice it and seek a solution, or just don’t buy it and shut the fuck up. I swear half the people who bitch about signature gear are just haters of the maker/name of the signature. Bandwagon.

Not calling anyone out lol


Can someone make a plugin called “critical thinking” to trick people into using it? Make sure it’s expensive too.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

fob said:


> This is all drama....
> 
> You know how many times gaming companies screwed people over and made tons of money off games that were botched and people “boycotted” then, here we are 200 Call of Duty’s later.
> 
> If you have a legitiment criticism, voice it and seek a solution, or just don’t buy it and shut the fuck up. I swear half the people who bitch about signature gear are just haters of the maker/name of the signature. Bandwagon.
> 
> Not calling anyone out lol



Like Ubisoft, who makes better trailers than games

Maybe I feel this way just in the moment, but does it seem like it's harder to find negative reviews of music gear stuff than it is positive?
Like, anyone can feel like anything is a good product because the majority of reviews that turn up are going to say positive things. You have to REALLY screw up a product to get the negative stuff shown first.

Then you go on Amazon, and for every product where the reviews weren't bought you have a bunch of negative reviews because only the people with problems take the time to voice themselves.


----------



## fob

LeviathanKiller said:


> Like Ubisoft, who makes better trailers than games
> 
> Maybe I feel this way just in the moment, but does it seem like it's harder to find negative reviews of music gear stuff than it is positive?
> Like, anyone can feel like anything is a good product because the majority of reviews that turn up are going to say positive things. You have to REALLY screw up a product to get the negative stuff shown first.
> 
> Then you go on Amazon, and for every product where the reviews weren't bought you have a bunch of negative reviews because only the people with problems take the time to voice themselves.


After being in customer service for 10 years... I really think most people have no idea what they’re talking about when they discuss products they have, whether in a good way or bad way. To elaborate I mean that I think a good amount of people can recognize a problem, but a way smaller number can articulate it well, but the ones that can don’t always do, but a lot of the people voicing the loud negatives are of the most that can recognize but seldom articulate in a constructive way.

Good customer services meets people where they’re at and helps understand what they might not themselves.

But most people have no idea a lot of the time. I mean while I agree with Ray’s response video to what happened, I completely think his tone sounded bad and he didn’t really know how to use it or what he was talking about. I really respect he’s open to learning how to do it if he didn’t know how so I think that’s cool, but I disagree with his opinion and the problems he had about the product.

Like Abraham Lincoln said in Star Trek, “If you can’t explain it to a child, you haven’t mastered it.”


----------



## bulb

i like turtles


----------



## DudeManBrother

I’m just glad that the channels I watch like Uncle Doug and D Lab have nothing to do with all this. 
It’s a computer program. Buy it and play it, or don’t buy it and don’t play it


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## vertibration

bulb said:


> It definitely does!!



Don't know if you are involved in any future updates to the plugin, but if so, you may want to take a look at the EQ section on both the amp and EQ section after the amp. The middle section of the EQ on the amp when turned down, has little to no effect on the sound, and the treble side of the EQ after the amp at 20K turned all the way down has little to no effect either. Just an FYI, as those frequencies are kinda needed to shape the tone a bit with certain IR's.


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## prlgmnr

Can you hear much in the 20k range?


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## mpexus

Flappydoodle said:


> I don't think anybody said there was a secret illuminati-type conspiracy.
> 
> But in all fairness, Henning IS part/centre of a group of YouTubers who work together often. They organised GitCon and some other get-togethers. And there were fallings out and drama etc with that too.




Henning has no part on Guitcon anymore, he made a video about it some months ago. Framus (the main sponsor) seem to have other ideas and he left or was put out... something like that.

I dont condemn him posting a message like that, in fact it might serve as a warning to others that they wont do Reviews/Demos based on pressure, either they say what they think or they dont do it at all, and those are in fact Reviews/Demos with real opinions and not Brand Propaganda like 99% of early Demos/Reviews of any product.


----------



## Soya

prlgmnr said:


> Can you hear much in the 20k range?



I dare you to go to a home theater forum and post that


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## Soya

.


----------



## axxessdenied

for music past 17k is kind of pointless imo unless your goal is extreme mastered volume via brightness


----------



## thebrokeguitarist

bulb said:


> i like turtles



Quiet you. We're arguing about some Misha guy and his products.


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## vertibration

prlgmnr said:


> Can you hear much in the 20k range?



Anyone here who has the JST Jason Richardson, do a back to back test with the Misha plugin, the JR EQ definitely dips when you turn it down. The Misha EQ is not the same in that respect.


----------



## LeviathanKiller




----------



## Vyn

LeviathanKiller said:


>




The track is boring but for the purposes of listening to the tone it made things a lot easier - less attention on the riffs and more attention on the guitar sounds themselves. Still sounds like utter garbage though which I'm not sure if it's because the plugin actually sounds like shit or because I'm still eargasming after Ola's Nevermore tone video and a few spins of Dead Heart In A Dead World.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

Vyn said:


> The track is boring but for the purposes of listening to the tone it made things a lot easier - less attention on the riffs and more attention on the guitar sounds themselves. Still sounds like utter garbage though which I'm not sure if it's because the plugin actually sounds like shit or because I'm still eargasming after Ola's Nevermore tone video and a few spins of Dead Heart In A Dead World.



That was a great tone in Ola's video!

But on-topic, yeah, I'm not feeling it, yet Joey Sturgis is saying it's okay. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Metropolis

It has definetly lots of clarity and all those adjustments are interesting. I'm still annoyed that Ola is having bass dialed in max to even achieve that much low end, and overall nature of this plugin is quite compressed


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## Kaura

Metropolis said:


> It has definetly lots of clarity and all those adjustments are interesting. I'm still annoyed that Ola is having bass dialed in max to even achieve that much low end, and overall nature of this plugin is quite compressed




That's the final nail in the coffin for me. If Ola's demo leaves me unimpressed then there's just no hope for the product. And hey, for once I actually had a chance to use the product myself since I went and pre-ordered it like an idiot so I have my own experience to form my opinion.


----------



## Lorcan Ward

Those are probably my favourite tones Ola has ever got. It responds so well to his pick attack and with the highs curved off it sounds much smoother when he really digs in. The mid range really comes out without getting clanky. I've always loved tones with a low-mid emphasis so I'm in a bit of a minority there with how modern pickups and pedals are voiced with a hi-mid emphasis for djenty tones.


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## GunpointMetal

prlgmnr said:


> Can you hear much in the 20k range?


His dog informed him of the 20kHz issue.


Soya said:


> I dare you to go to a home theater forum and post that


I don't trust guys who will spend $700 on 20' of speaker wire to know anything about anything.


----------



## Snarpaasi

Lorcan Ward said:


> Those are probably my favourite tones Ola has ever got. It responds so well to his pick attack and with the highs curved off it sounds much smoother when he really digs in. The mid range really comes out without getting clanky. I've always loved tones with a low-mid emphasis so I'm in a bit of a minority there with how modern pickups and pedals are voiced with a hi-mid emphasis for djenty tones.



Compared to Fortin, this JST seems to have better capabilities dialing in those low mids.


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## vertibration

GunpointMetal said:


> His dog informed him of the 20kHz issue.
> 
> I don't trust guys who will spend $700 on 20' of speaker wire to know anything about anything.



All I was saying is the JR toneforge has a more audible difference in the 20K range than the Misha plugin


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## GunpointMetal

How high do you have to boost it to hear a difference in 20k? That's more or less the top end of human hearing, and most people over 20-25 years old aren't gonna hear much over 18k.


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## vertibration

smh nevermind, moving on


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## GunpointMetal

It's an honest question. Most people wouldn't even worry about anything up that high on a guitar because even your "air" is gonna be 10k-16k and much above that is just noise. Did you mean 2k?


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## fob




----------



## vertibration

GunpointMetal said:


> It's an honest question. Most people wouldn't even worry about anything up that high on a guitar because even your "air" is gonna be 10k-16k and much above that is just noise. Did you mean 2k?



All I meant was there was a difference in how the JR and Misha plugins perform in the EQ section. I noticed the JR has high cuts much more at 20k turned all the way down than the Misha plugin

I am not disputing if 20K is audible or not


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## Frostbite

Yeah Ola's demo sealed it for me too. I don't think anyone could convince me that this plug in sounds good outside of an edited mix. I love Misha as an artist, I love Periphery, I love literally everything about them basically (read motto) but I think this plugin REALLY just missed the mark to me. Really unfortunate


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## Ericjutsu

I think this plugin sounds good in the mix. I definitely prefer playing through Fortin Nameless Suite though.


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## LeviathanKiller

Frostbite said:


> Yeah Ola's demo sealed it for me too. I don't think anyone could convince me that this plug in sounds good outside of an edited mix. I love Misha as an artist, I love Periphery, I love literally everything about them basically (read motto) but I think this plugin REALLY just missed the *mark *to me. Really unfortunate



I'm sure @bulb will throw in a picture of Mark for you, if you ask nicely


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## Frostbite

LeviathanKiller said:


> I'm sure @bulb will throw in a picture of Mark for you, if you ask nicely


I mean... I wouldn't be opposed to the offer per say


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## LeviathanKiller




----------



## bulb

i made a thing also too as well, and i had fun with it


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## LeviathanKiller

bulb said:


> i made a thing also too as well, and i had fun with it




Trying to sound too much like Periphery. Geez man, be original.

You need to play more folk cleans and blues scales so we can truly hear how it sounds too.


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## DudeManBrother

bulb said:


> i made a thing also too as well, and i had fun with it



Sounds great to me; but I’m commenting because I want to see more of that Telecaster!


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## prlgmnr

bulb said:


> i made a thing also too as well, and i had fun with it



I hope this guy demos the Fortin plugin as well.


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## bulb

LeviathanKiller said:


> Trying to sound too much like Periphery. Geez man, be original.
> 
> You need to play more folk cleans and blues scales so we can truly hear how it sounds too.



*clever response*



DudeManBrother said:


> Sounds great to me; but I’m commenting because I want to see more of that Telecaster!


That Tele is pure magic!


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## DudeManBrother

bulb said:


> *clever response*
> 
> 
> That Tele is pure magic!


I bet! It’s absolutely stunning. I’ve got a lake placid, rosewood board American Special that’s incredible; but that thing is another level


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## musicman61554

When I use this I only get sound when I add it as an effect to my track.......I want to have instant sound like when you plug into an amp you hear the sound as you play. I have read to put the VST on an Aux Track......that didnt work of course I could have done it wrong. I have been looking around and really havent found a solution. Anyone have experience running amp sims and being able to play them instantly instead of recording a dry track then adding the effect? Im using Sonar Platinum.


----------



## mikah912

musicman61554 said:


> When I use this I only get sound when I add it as an effect to my track.......I want to have instant sound like when you plug into an amp you hear the sound as you play. I have read to put the VST on an Aux Track......that didnt work of course I could have done it wrong. I have been looking around and really havent found a solution. Anyone have experience running amp sims and being able to play them instantly instead of recording a dry track then adding the effect? Im using Sonar Platinum.



Don't use Sonar, but it seems pretty clear you don't have monitoring on the track.


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## buriedoutback

I can't look at any of the video clips you all have attached (at work-don't normally read sso at home), so I don't know if it has been posted/mentioned yet, but HoLy BaLLs the drewsif stalin advertisement for this plugin is some of the gnarliest tone I have ever heard. Just wow. Like fuck. Daddy like. Grunka Lunka dunkety doo, he's got some heavy ass guitar tone for you.


----------



## fob

The ML Soundlab Cab sounds FUCKING awesome. Thanks for adding this. Love this with the presets so much more.


----------



## mikah912

fob said:


> The ML Soundlab Cab sounds FUCKING awesome. Thanks for adding this. Love this with the presets so much more.



Who added what now?


----------



## fob

mikah912 said:


> Who added what now?


Email came through that added the ML SoundLab Cab to the cabs through an update just now and it sounds really good to me. I believe its the same dude who did the cabs for the Fortin Nameless as well. Sounds more full and beefy to me.


----------



## Frostbite

The ML Soundlabs cabs makes a fucking HUGE difference. To me the plugin was unusable with the stock cabs but this cab is outstanding. Still won't be my go to but it's a lot better then it was before IMO


----------



## fob

Frostbite said:


> The ML Soundlabs cabs makes a fucking HUGE difference. To me the plugin was unusable with the stock cabs but this cab is outstanding. Still won't be my go to but it's a lot better then it was before IMO


Yeah when I went back and forth between the ML sound lab and the JST stock one, the JST had such a thin sound and kinda a wonky mid range to it too. This cab is super good. If there's more, more pls.


----------



## ML Sound Lab

Just wanted to drop by to thank you guys for the awesome feedback on the ML IR. The cab section definitely goes to show how big a difference IR's really make. We actually just released a .wav format Cab Pack of the same cabinet that this IR is based on in case you're interested.


----------



## Kaura

ML Sound Lab said:


> Just wanted to drop by to thank you guys for the awesome feedback on the ML IR. The cab section definitely goes to show how big a difference IR's really make. We actually just released a .wav format Cab Pack of the same cabinet that this IR is based on in case you're interested.



Thanks for letting us know. I bought it immediately and it sounds awesome! Don't need any new IRs for a while with this one.


----------



## ML Sound Lab

Kaura said:


> Thanks for letting us know. I bought it immediately and it sounds awesome! Don't need any new IRs for a while with this one.


Oh wow! Thank you for the amazing feedback buddy.


----------



## LeviathanKiller

ML Sound Lab said:


> Oh wow! Thank you for the amazing feedback buddy.


It was hard to find your website (the Fractal shop shows up easy). Put a link in your signature please.

I've got the Misha bundle of your stuff for my Fractal and it's killer. Definitely interested in the new WAV bundle for my Mooer Preamp Live.

Glad to see you got paired up with Fortin and NeuralDSP on this. You make awesome stuff. There's only one other IR company I like. Your and their stuff is just levels above everything else, especially regarding clarity/definition.


----------



## ML Sound Lab

LeviathanKiller said:


> It was hard to find your website (the Fractal shop shows up easy). Put a link in your signature please.
> 
> I've got the Misha bundle of your stuff for my Fractal and it's killer. Definitely interested in the new WAV bundle for my Mooer Preamp Live.
> 
> Glad to see you got paired up with Fortin and NeuralDSP on this. You make awesome stuff. There's only one other IR company I like. Your and their stuff is just levels above everything else, especially regarding clarity/definition.


That's much appreciated! The website went up a week ago so Google doesn't know about it yet. I'll add it to my signature MEOW!


----------



## Mikous

I just bought the Toneforge Misha bollocks and cannot, for the life of me, get a sound that isn't either thin piss dribble which has the tonal qualities of fresh wood chippings, or something so fucking loaded with bass that it clips anytime I palm mute. Genuinely the worst guitar sound I've ever had - on par with a really shit preset from Guitar Rig 5, but at least that program had SOME good tones. The only thing that sounds remotely good is the clean channels and the software pedals, anything crunch or lead is disgusting and has enough hiss to destabilise the foundations of my home. I appreciate there's probably a sweet spot of settings but every single video on it is misleading so far, as I'm doing everything in the videos except own a $3000+ guitar and the difference between our tone is massive. Don't tell me my equipment is at fault because the guitar sounds fucking mint through a POD HD500, Kemper Profiler or any amp I try. I actually think you could get a more convincing sound out of a slinky held taught and twanged a bit. I absolutely *hate* it so far and feel ripped off (surprise surprise no refunds of this product, which you can't know whether it works until you have it, but then you can't return it because you have it) - but will spend a weekend with the month free of learning resources to see if I'm missing anything.

I'm hoping to God there's a 'make not terrible' button somewhere otherwise this product is trash that relied on people's undying love for Misha to sell.


----------



## Kaura

Mikous said:


> I just bought the Toneforge Misha bollocks and cannot, for the life of me, get a sound that isn't either thin piss dribble which has the tonal qualities of fresh wood chippings, or something so fucking loaded with bass that it clips anytime I palm mute. Genuinely the worst guitar sound I've ever had - on par with a really shit preset from Guitar Rig 5, but at least that program had SOME good tones. The only thing that sounds remotely good is the clean channels and the software pedals, anything crunch or lead is disgusting and has enough hiss to destabilise the foundations of my home. I appreciate there's probably a sweet spot of settings but every single video on it is misleading so far, as I'm doing everything in the videos except own a $3000+ guitar and the difference between our tone is massive. Don't tell me my equipment is at fault because the guitar sounds fucking mint through a POD HD500, Kemper Profiler or any amp I try. I actually think you could get a more convincing sound out of a slinky held taught and twanged a bit. I absolutely *hate* it so far and feel ripped off (surprise surprise no refunds of this product, which you can't know whether it works until you have it, but then you can't return it because you have it) - but will spend a weekend with the month free of learning resources to see if I'm missing anything.
> 
> I'm hoping to God there's a 'make not terrible' button somewhere otherwise this product is trash that relied on people's undying love for Misha to sell.



Just give it time. I had exact same reaction when I first got it. I gotta say I still prefer the Neural DSP stuff especially for rhythms. I'd suggest trying a 3rd party IR. The ones that come with it are pretty garbage apart from the ML cab.


----------



## ML Sound Lab

Mikous said:


> I'm hoping to God there's a 'make not terrible' button somewhere otherwise this product is trash that relied on people's undying love for Misha to sell.


Try the ML Sound Lab cab in the cab section that came in the update. It completely changes the tone character of the plugin. Even just the default settings that the plugin loads up with and just choosing that ML cab is a good metal tone with my guitar at least.


----------



## Mikous

ML Sound Lab said:


> Try the ML Sound Lab cab in the cab section that came in the update. It completely changes the tone character of the plugin. Even just the default settings that the plugin loads up with and just choosing that ML cab is a good metal tone with my guitar at least.



Hi there,

I must admit I had been using the JST Matched Cab; I gave the ML Cab a go and initially it's the same experience (wtf is this awful mushy noise), and by looping some DI for fifteen minutes whilst meticulously tweaking I managed to get something "_*close*_" to what I would consider using in a recording. However, there's something still off as the settings have to be at extremes that seem too unusual to be true. (Gate at max to stop the ear bleeding hiss, having to have 0% bass and mid on the 'head' to not clip when muting AND use the extra EQ plugin AND THEN have my own EQ on it in Pro Tools for example - not kidding).

I've only just got off work for the week and am currently settling down to lots of YouTube videos and the resources supplied with the Toneforge plugin and it seems as though something is seriously wrong with my install - all the presets are missing and the default "just opened the plugin" sound is unreasonably different between the videos and mine. Please disregard my previous review and I shall post a fair and honest report once I've had enough time to actually sit down with it for a full day as recompense.

My apologies to all those who have worked hard on this product.

[EDIT] As an extra note/compliment one thing that has really struck me about it so far is how well it picks out little details when you're pick scraping, ghost noting etc. So much so that it's really re-sparked my love for playing in a way, because you can have so much more fun with the dynamics of your playing. Anyway must stop rambling so I can get on with it.


----------



## ML Sound Lab

No worries at all. I think having SO MANY options can easily make things more complicated than they need to be. My personal settings are just the default settings that it starts out with, switching the ML cab and then simply turning down the bass on the amp section. I don't really touch anything else. Once you turn every knob that you can you can easily mess things up somewhere. Less is more would be my advice.


----------



## Kaura

Mikous said:


> all the presets are missing



The presets were a pre-order perk but you can buy them by joining the JST vip club. I don't want to sound like a salesman but just to inform that your installation should be fine.


----------



## Veldar

Kaura said:


> The presets were a pre-order perk but you can buy them by joining the JST vip club. I don't want to sound like a salesman but just to inform that your installation should be fine.




That seems like a load of shit. 

Also there's no way to get a refund? In Australia if people say that we can complain to a free government organisation and they have to refund the product. Does your country have anything similar


----------



## Kaura

Veldar said:


> That seems like a load of shit.
> 
> Also there's no way to get a refund? In Australia if people say that we can complain to a free government organisation and they have to refund the product. Does your country have anything similar



Yes, we have a consumer rights bureau in Finland that handles stuff like that but personally I don't feel the need to refund the plugin since I like it overally and especially since I've had it for about 6 months now so even the bureau couldn't help me, I'm afraid. I gotta agree that it sucks that you have to buy all the JST plugins like a pig in a poke, without any free trials, and demo videos get you only so far.


----------



## Mikous

I live in the UK so online purchases are nicely covered. I will be refunding it as the presets were the last straw.

As a final update there was nothing wrong with my install, the product it would see is misrepresented heavily. I'm beyond disappointed and a little betrayed; rest assured I will not be buying any Misha Mansoor or Joey Sturgis products again as there's too much smoke and mirrors.

Sorry for the two pages of rants, I don't earn much money and this was a treat to myself and I can't help but feel stupid for it now.


----------



## vertibration

I find it odd that I bought Misha Toneforge, and all my available downloads have been removed. I bought it when it came out. How odd that my downloads have denied access, my downloads have enough downloads available. Neural DSP uses the same format for downloading updates, and I never have an issue accessing my downloads from them


----------



## Cheap

vertibration said:


> I find it odd that I bought Misha Toneforge, and all my available downloads have been removed. I bought it when it came out. How odd that my downloads have denied access, my downloads have enough downloads available. Neural DSP uses the same format for downloading updates, and I never have an issue accessing my downloads from them


I think JST puts a time limit on the download page for some reason. You should be able to send them an email with an order # and they'll refresh the page for you--their support is super fast about it in my experience


----------



## Jason B

Mikous said:


> I'm beyond disappointed and a little betrayed; rest assured I will not be buying any Misha Mansoor or Joey Sturgis products again as there's too much smoke and mirrors.



What did Misha’s previous products seem like to you? I get that people either always loved or always hated his “farting leviathan and singing whales” guitar tones, but he’s always been pretty transparent about spending his fifteen minutes selling his name to the highest bidder.


----------

