# What are your thought process' while you play?



## TREYAZAGHTOTH (Nov 3, 2011)

hey all of you..
whats up?.. 
recently got my copy of 'Tonal Harmony'..thanks to schecterwhore for that.
which brings me to my next question.
when i play..what should go through my head?
is it
1)should it be the music i'm trying to play?
2) should it be the notes( meaning ..ok this note is C...the next note is an Eb, then i'm going to play a D )that i'm about to play?
3) should it be the numerical notes of the scale( meaning ok..this is the root, then the flattened third and now comes the flattened 7th) that i am playing?

I find that when i'm trying to learn a scale..the second and third method helps..
But how do you guys play..?
What is it you guys are consciously thinking about, music wise?


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 3, 2011)

Depends what you're playing I guess.


----------



## TREYAZAGHTOTH (Nov 3, 2011)

take for example..metallica's "four horsemen"
To my mind, the main intro is a pentatonic riff..but the first 'break' has them going in a different direction.
while playing that, i try to consciously find out which notes are played ,why they are there and their relation to the tonic.
It slows me down... but i feel i get a better understanding.
My question is- is this all just mental masturbation?..or is it going to help me?


----------



## that short guy (Nov 3, 2011)

TREYAZAGHTOTH said:


> take for example..metallica's "four horsemen"
> To my mind, the main intro is a pentatonic riff..but the first 'break' has them going in a different direction.
> while playing that, i try to consciously find out which notes are played ,why they are there and their relation to the tonic.
> It slows me down... but i feel i get a better understanding.
> My question is- is this all just mental masturbation?..or is it going to help me?


 
It could be me but that sounds like it's gonna go under mental masturbation to me. When i play the only thing i'm thing about is the pulse, my tone, and any awkward finger changes that will be coming soon.

but once again that is just me.


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Nov 3, 2011)

I'd say you should go at it from 1 and 3, but work on combining 2 and 3. That way, you can say, "This sounds like the fourth degree of the scale," then you can extrapolate in one of two ways: "I'm in the key of B minor, so this note is E," or "I'm playing an E, and E is 4 in B minor."

Build an intervallic and harmonic sense of the scales and chords, and you'll find that your ear will develop so you don't have to think so much.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Nov 3, 2011)

I've found the less I think the better I sound when I play. At least most of the time. Thinking--for me--effs up my concentration when I'm playing and I know that makes no sense, but I don't really know how else to describe it...


----------



## Pooluke41 (Nov 3, 2011)

I seriously think of Disgusting things so I don't think of getting the bit i'm playing wrong.


----------



## Maniacal (Nov 3, 2011)

How fast can I play this?


----------



## Solodini (Nov 3, 2011)

I agree with what SW said. I find that sort if thinking useful for understanding how a piece of music works, do that I can then apply that to my own writing, or at least remember the similarities between things. If you have a mental directory of characteristics in certain pieces if music and their composers then you will get on board with similar music much more quickly in learning it and have a much easier time if remembering it, as you'll have a frame of reference for it. 

Also, try to do the same rhythmically. As a guitarist, it's very easy to focus intently on harmonic theory and neglect rhythm. Learn to count the beats and necessary subdivisions while you play and accent what you count to imply where you're actually playing. You won't likely think about all of the harmonic stuff at exactly the same time, you'll likely flick back and forth between the two, dependent on the challenges if each section of what you're playing but they're equally important.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic (Nov 3, 2011)

Maniacal said:


> How fast can I play this?



I love you.


----------



## SirMyghin (Nov 3, 2011)

I am generally thinking of all 3, but 2 over 3 as much as possible. Usually shifting roots around chords if I can help it, depends how fast everything is moving really. If it has lots of air I might even be thinking of potential scales I can use over a chord to get a different feel (say 90 bpm, chord change every other bar, I am not the quickest out there, need to think faster).


----------



## Blind Theory (Nov 3, 2011)

FUCK! I wrote this damn song/riff/solo! Why can't I play it! 

-Or-

This sounded a lot easier when I was listening to it on youtube.

-Or-

I feel like writing some bad ass riffs. Why can't I write any bad ass riffs? I can't stop crying. SSTTOOOOOPP!! I HATE YOU GUITAR!!! 

...10 minutes later....lets try writing again, I got a little out of hand there.


----------



## celticelk (Nov 3, 2011)

What am I thinking?

Don't fuck up. Don't fuck up. Don't fuck up. Don't....

Dammit.

(paraphrased)


----------



## idunno (Nov 3, 2011)

i imagine the sound i want to make and seek out that note. I also visualize the scale pattern on the fretboard like its just a piece of paper and make sure i hit those notes with out F'in up too much Probably a bad way to do it but i taught myself so my methods are strange.


----------



## TREYAZAGHTOTH (Nov 4, 2011)

s_whore, solodini and SirMyghin.. thanks for the inputs.
will let you guys know how it works out for me.


----------



## Konfyouzd (Nov 4, 2011)

Blind Theory said:


> FUCK! I wrote this damn song/riff/solo! Why can't I play it!


 


Story of my LIFE!


----------



## Konfyouzd (Nov 4, 2011)

idunno said:


> i imagine the sound i want to make and seek out that note. I also visualize the scale pattern on the fretboard like its just a piece of paper and make sure i hit those notes with out F'in up too much Probably a bad way to do it but i taught myself so my methods are strange.


 
I do a little of this as well but try to rely on muscle memory to do some of the "thinking" for me. But my approach is very similar to yours.


----------



## StratoJazz (Nov 5, 2011)

I'd say you should just think positive thoughts and believe that you can play the guitar well. As you get better at a particular style, lick, phrasing, picking style or whatever, those positive thoughts become reinforced.

The stupidest thing you can do is to think about theoretical relationships while playing. While practicing however, it's essential. Thinking of these relationships will get your ear turned on and will help you with refinement during practice. Only think of 2 and 3 when you practice, the idea of practice is so you don't think of them when you actually play.

When you perform for people, the ultimate goal is to be able to play melodies you hear on your instrument. Remember that there are no theory police that will come in and watch you play a gig and tell you how you didn't play that minor third interval on that Bb7 chord. Also keep in mind that all theory really is is a way to understand how certain types of music are put together structurally.


----------



## marbledbeef (Nov 5, 2011)

TREYAZAGHTOTH said:


> hey all of you..
> whats up?..
> recently got my copy of 'Tonal Harmony'..thanks to schecterwhore for that.
> which brings me to my next question.
> ...



Dude I just totally vague out and rock on


----------



## SirMyghin (Nov 5, 2011)

StratoJazz said:


> When you perform for people, the ultimate goal is to be able to play melodies you hear on your instrument. Remember that there are no theory police that will come in and watch you play a gig and tell you how you didn't play that minor third interval on that Bb7 chord. Also keep in mind that all theory really is is a way to understand how certain types of music are put together structurally.



If you are hearing the melodies, and translating that to playing, you are thinking about relative pitch whether you like it or not  So be careful what you dismiss as 'stupid'.


----------



## StratoJazz (Nov 5, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> If you are hearing the melodies, and translating that to playing, you are thinking about relative pitch whether you like it or not  So be careful what you dismiss as 'stupid'.



Yeah, your're right. However, the goal is to do that on a subconscious level. What i was getting at was that problems 2 and 3 are and should only be addressed in the practice room. When you perform, what notes you play and the theory should be the last thing on your mind.

I hear A's or the 6th's relationship to a C chord. But i don't think "mmm...That's a Major 6th above the root." I just play it or stick that note in my voicing if i hear someone else use it in their solo. 

When you start *thinking* instead of just *doing*, you start to have problems.


----------



## bandinaboy (Nov 5, 2011)

Personally I try to hear and pinpoint the next note im going to play before i play, so i know exactly what I am playing as apposed to guessing shit. Works great once, you always know what you are playing. 
My instructor however, thinks of bills he has to pay, and then proceeds to blow my mind with shred. 
What ever works i suppose.


----------



## Skyblue (Nov 5, 2011)

To be honest, I totally blank  
In general I'll try to pay attention to the notes within the scale I'm playing, and avoid "wrong" notes (unless of course I want to use them on purpose) but in general I just play what I feel, I kinda try as I go. 

Not the best method ever, I know  I wish I had the time to work on fixing it...


----------



## SirMyghin (Nov 5, 2011)

StratoJazz said:


> Yeah, your're right. However, the goal is to do that on a subconscious level. What i was getting at was that problems 2 and 3 are and should only be addressed in the practice room. When you perform, what notes you play and the theory should be the last thing on your mind.
> 
> I hear A's or the 6th's relationship to a C chord. But i don't think "mmm...That's a Major 6th above the root." I just play it or stick that note in my voicing if i hear someone else use it in their solo.
> 
> When you start *thinking* instead of just *doing*, you start to have problems.



Yeah but you have to do it until you internalize it to get here, so whether you actually think actively about these things, which for me is only occasionally, or if I am jamming specifically to try a concept, it is still in there somehow, at some level. You can't internalize it, without thinking about it first, so in many ways telling him what to be looking for an thinking about will get him there. 

In essence, you can't teach experience. I think it was you who posted about playing the alterred scale above the dominant. You can't tell me you don't occasionally think 'I am going to use a degree of the alterred scale this time around'. If you internalize that so that you do it every time, you risk being a touch boring. You also risk sounding a bit too much like what you always sound like if you don't think enough.


----------



## Solodini (Nov 5, 2011)

I disagree with Stratojazz and agree entirely with SirMyg. It's good to be aware if gore to change things up. It's fine to be passive if you're just reciting a homering but you want to be an active participant in a Jan our if you're improvising over a predetermined structure, especially.


----------



## viesczy (Nov 5, 2011)

Well, depends on if I'm just doing acrobatics and not composing/performing. If it is just acrobatics (and I NEVER do those while performing!  ), it is about being as precise and difficult as possible. 

If I'm composing, I'm trying to resolve what I just tried to convey to what I'm hoping to continue to convey. Music is a language, it speaks to the heart and the ear, so I'm trying to not have bunch of useless notes. 

If I'm performing and I don't have too much in me, I'm paying attention to the progression, where my hands are, where I want to go and if I hit an outside note that I lean on I need to do it again and LEAN on it again so it sounds like I meant to do it!

Derek


----------



## JosephAOI (Nov 5, 2011)

Blind Theory said:


> FUCK! I wrote this damn song/riff/solo! Why can't I play it!
> 
> -Or-
> 
> ...


 Are you....















ME?


----------



## All_¥our_Bass (Nov 5, 2011)

Counting/feeling timing/rhythm
Next note/set of notes(phrase)


----------



## walleye (Nov 6, 2011)

i think you should think all of those things (maybe not at once). music is connected and intertwined in an infinite number of ways and its good to understand as many of those network connections as you possibly can. if you're practicing its good to slow down and emphasise the theory in your mind so you can drill it in. one thing you missed out would be a #4 which is the aural side of it. maybe with that four horseman example, instead of thinking of theory, think of "ok this is what these intervals sound like, now this interval .. that sounds like the tonic, is it? no? why did it sound tonicish then?" etc.

also, if you're in a metal band, the only thing on your mind should be "make sure my face looks fierce at all times. dont smile. look scary"


----------



## rug (Nov 6, 2011)

When practicing - concentrating on making sure everything is played cleanly and in time.
Live - completely disregarding what I do when I practice. I trust that I've built the muscle memory to do most of what I need to without looking at the fretboard. I can then headbang and thrash around like an idiot...if I miss a note or two that's fine. 

When playing a solo live - "just remember to bail out on the 1"


----------



## Mukersman (Nov 6, 2011)

Minor Pentatonic GO


End 30 minutes later.
Erry day.


----------



## StratoJazz (Nov 6, 2011)

SirMyghin said:


> Yeah but you have to do it until you internalize it to get here, so whether you actually think actively about these things, which for me is only occasionally, or if I am jamming specifically to try a concept, it is still in there somehow, at some level. You can't internalize it, without thinking about it first, so in many ways telling him what to be looking for an thinking about will get him there.
> 
> In essence, you can't teach experience. I think it was you who posted about playing the alterred scale above the dominant. You can't tell me you don't occasionally think 'I am going to use a degree of the alterred scale this time around'. If you internalize that so that you do it every time, you risk being a touch boring. You also risk sounding a bit too much like what you always sound like if you don't think enough.



I guess we are just going to have to agree that we disagree. However, I think we are saying essentially the same thing.

Where we may differ is that you learn concepts in the practice room, then perform those internalized concepts in front of an audience. 

I would rather sound like how i always sound like, even if that's boring, than to think and try to play new things i haven't worked out yet that most likely won't sound good. Of course, if i was jamming with some one and wanted to try a new concept, i would.

I guess to answer the OP, i try to minimalize the number of thought processes that are going on, and i try to focus on the music that's going on around me. Not so much the theoretical aspect of it, but i just try to vibe with the other musicians. Nothing more, nothing less.

My goal has been to be effortless in this endeavor. Practice helps me achieve that goal.


----------



## SirMyghin (Nov 6, 2011)

StratoJazz said:


> I guess we are just going to have to agree that we disagree. However, I think we are saying essentially the same thing.
> 
> Where we may differ is that you learn concepts in the practice room, then perform those internalized concepts in front of an audience.



Not quite, what I do depends very highly on the dynamic of what if going on, but I don't scrap the thought process, ever. The only thing I practice are my compositions, and that is a different animal. The trick is all in being able to think fast enough, which comes with practice thinking.


----------



## Mr. Big Noodles (Nov 6, 2011)

StratoJazz said:


> Where we may differ is that you learn concepts in the practice room, then perform those internalized concepts in front of an audience.



I thought that was the idea. There's the oft-cited saying of "learn everything, then forget it all", and I think that's what you're talking about, but the whole reason why that works is that what you do while learning contributes to your familiarity with a material or concept. I'm not thinking with the same depth of analysis when I perform a practiced piece as I do when I'm learning, but the analysis is certainly there at some level. It's like sex - the first time is awkward and clumsy, but you gain the required motor skills and learn how to expedite with repetition. I don't think anybody that has had reasonable exposure has to pour much thought into which way a condom goes on, even if they tried to intellectualize it. Your brain and body file things in the "I've done this before, let's hurry it up" file, even if you consciously try to break things down.


----------



## brutalwizard (Nov 7, 2011)

i think of random scales and chord inversions

tell myself just get out the metronome and the time will fly by

or i am figuring out what basic 3 note harmony holds the mightier power to get in her pants


----------



## Dayn (Nov 7, 2011)

I'm perhaps not the best person to ask. I think "okay, this harmony is interesting... but what if I threw this in?!?"

I'm a mad scientist, dissecting harmony in a needlessly brutal way to find out how it works. I've done it enough though where I don't really have much of a thought process. It's ingrained enough to know how to pick out what I want. ...Most of the time.


----------



## TREYAZAGHTOTH (Nov 7, 2011)

s_whore and SirMygin:
As i understand it, is the gist of what the two of you are saying this?
1) the guitar is the 'book'
2) the intervals are the 'alphabets'
3) my ability to 'read' the fretboard in two aspects:
a) interval wise
b) as well as note wise (eg. 9th fret b string is g# )
4) My ability to 'write' is the equivalent to playing the instrument
5) My total 'literacy' at the guitar comes when i can successfully integrate my ability to 'read' and 'write' effortlessly
6) In that case, Mastery of the instrument comes when i can 'write' effortlessly on something that i can think about... at the same time 'writing' something that reflects my feeling of what is right or wrong...
7) If i can write an essay on a piece of paper on something i strongly have a view on...does Mastery of the guitar entail my ability to 'write' the same thing on the guitar using my knowledge of 'alphabets'?

Am i wrong with these statements?


----------



## SirMyghin (Nov 7, 2011)

Thats some damned heavy interpretation but yeah, I would say you have it in spades. The Mastery parts takes a hell of a long time but it will be worth it when I get there


----------



## groovemasta (Nov 7, 2011)

Mines mostly consists of robots and aliens


----------



## ImBCRichBitch (Nov 7, 2011)

TREYAZAGHTOTH said:


> take for example..metallica's "four horsemen"


 you mean mustane's mechanix  but yes, it is mental masturbation so to speak


----------



## Killer64 (Nov 12, 2011)

My thought process when I play? Don`t think, because if you think while playing death metal you hesitate and screw up. Just practice the same songs a thousand times over until you don`t even think about it to play it, it just comes out on its own. When I come up with my own riffs, I try to come up with something that could go along with somebody being relentlessly beaten to death


----------



## Go To Bed Jessica (Nov 12, 2011)

I do all of my thinking in the learning or writing phase. By the time I am on stage performing a song, the only things going through my head are the emotions behind the song I'm playing and concentrating on making sure I'm locked in tight with the drums.


----------



## Dan_Vacant (Nov 13, 2011)

for the petonic scale in a I think 5th 8th to the a string, 5th 7th etc etc or I don't think


----------



## Son of Sam (Nov 14, 2011)

When I improvise over something, I first ponder the chord progression. Through practice and repetition, I remember the relative modes that I can use over each chord. Each mode, to me, has its own flavor. I recognize modes by the playing them and attributing them to songs I'm familiar with. 
Most Iron Maiden progressions=Aeolian Lydian Dorian
Saria's Song from Zelda=Lydian
Joe Satriani always noodles in Mixolydian and Dorian

I look at the modes as a theoretical framework of notes that "work"; with which to formulate my own style of playing with. I'd like to think that I'm a good mix of creativity and technicality. I believe that one cannot exist without the other, so I like to play as such.


----------



## cwhitey2 (Nov 14, 2011)

For live:

1) Trying to remember which parts i can go ape-shit too

2) Remembering the gist of the riffs lol

3) If i some how get lost, i think of root notes until i can jump back in.

Practice:

1) If i dont know the song my brain is like scrambled eggs, my thoughts are everywhere 

2) I know i can get this tigher.

3) FUUUUUU i forgot about that part!!!


----------

