# Best 7 string for my tiny TINY hands



## Science_Penguin (Mar 10, 2017)

I've been itching to try 7's again, but, frankly, I think it's unhealthy for me to play my RG anymore. My hands are pretty damn small, to the point where I struggle with a 43mm nut on a 6, and I can just barely reach the low string on an RG8. So, I have a hard time playing my current 7 for more than fifteen minutes without experiencing pain.

I think what I'm looking for is closer to the PRS SE 7 string, which so far is the most comfortable I've ever tried, but is there anything you guys can recommend that's maybe smaller? Perhaps something with a nut width shorter than 48mm?

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## cardinal (Mar 10, 2017)

Some of the pre-EII ESP 7s have a 45mm nut width. 

Do you wrap your thumb over the top of the neck? If so, try keeping it on the back of the neck in the classical position.


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## Science_Penguin (Mar 10, 2017)

Yeah, I do. I used to keep my hand in classical position when I was a beginner, but then I started moving around on stage a lot more, so I needed better grip.

I'll see if I can check some of those out. Thanks!


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## cardinal (Mar 10, 2017)

When I first switched to 7-strings, I had to adjust to the classical grip to avoid wrist pain. Now I'm pretty good at sneaking my thumb over the top only for big bends and wide vibrato; otherwise it stays on the back of the neck.


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## Tonal_Blasphemy (Mar 10, 2017)

HI. 

My hands are on the smaller side. I ended up picking up a Jackson dka-m 7 on sale from guitar center. The neck is so damn sweet that after only a few weeks my six strings feel ridiculous. I was playing a 1999 LTD 300. It was the most comfortable guitar I ever played before getting the cheap $169.00 Jackson. Haha. Go get your hands on some.


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## angl2k (Mar 10, 2017)

Most of the Jackson hardtail 7s have 44.5mm nut width so I image the neck is a bit narrower than your usual 7 string neck. Also ESP Standard Horizon 7 had a narrow nut.


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## Jake (Mar 10, 2017)

I've got tiny hands and I feel that my JP12-7 is perfect as a 7. It's not too wide at all and super comfortable to play for extended periods of time. Granted that's a pricey option but still it basically feels like a 6 string.


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## Hollowway (Mar 10, 2017)

I don't want to be the guy who tells you to work on your technique, but I'd really work on keeping your thumb on the back of the neck. It's going to help more in the long run. I guess if you want just a stage guitar to wrap your thumb around that could just be the exception.


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## knet370 (Mar 10, 2017)

Hollowway said:


> I don't want to be the guy who tells you to work on your technique, but I'd really work on keeping your thumb on the back of the neck. It's going to help more in the long run. I guess if you want just a stage guitar to wrap your thumb around that could just be the exception.



i was about to say the same. clear example is jason richardson. he doesnt have big hands and long fingers but his technique is great. he shreds on a 7 string making it look like its just a 6. my opinion get a jp majesty. it may not be pleasing aesthetically but damn the comfort and playability is perfect. take it from a person with small hands aswell.


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## Science_Penguin (Mar 10, 2017)

To be fair, it's less painful if I raise my strap up to Yngwie or Petrucci height... but the whole reason I lowered it to Jimmy Page height in the first place was because anything above the belt just looks awkward on my skinny ass.

I do like the look of the Majesty, though, so if that happens to be the right guitar for me, I'll have no complaints.


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## Kyle01 (Mar 11, 2017)

When I was first looking for a 7 string, after many years on a 6, the SBMM JP70 was much more comfortable to me than any other 7. I initally looked at an Ibanez 7421, but I found that the JP70 was a lot more comfortable to me, especially since at the time I mainly played with a thumb-over technique. The JP definitely felt more narrow to me and the shoulders of the profile seemed less harsh than the Ibanez. 
Honestly the neck on the JP70 is more comfortable to me than even some of my 6 string necks. Just my 2 cents though, I would try as many 7's as you can.


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## jephjacques (Mar 11, 2017)

A 45mm nut isn't going to make much of a difference any further up the fretboard than, like, the 3rd fret.

Sounds like it's not the size of your hands but your playing position that's the problem. Shorten your strap, and try playing in classical position when sitting down.


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## Shask (Mar 11, 2017)

You might try Schecter, especially the ones with a thinner neck like the Banshee and KM series. You probably need a rounder neck than what Ibanez does. Schecter has a good C-shaped neck. Ibanez and Jackson tend to have D-shaped necks.

I have small hands, and wrap my thumb a lot also. I am finding that medium C-shaped necks are the best for me. I even took a 6 string Ibanez RG and sanded the neck rounder, and it got 1000x easier for me to play. I plan on doing the same to my RG7321 when I get time. Sadly, I have kind of gotten out of 7 strings lately. I find I can play detuned 6 strings MUCH easier which makes them more fun. I feel like I am always fighting with 7 strings.

The PRS SE might be a good idea also. I have only messed with them a little in the past, but I have REALLY gotten into the 6 strings lately, and really thinking about picking up a few and selling some of my guitars. That makes me want to give their 7 string a series chance also.


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## Lionsden (Mar 11, 2017)

Science_Penguin said:


> To be fair, it's less painful if I raise my strap up to Yngwie or Petrucci height... but the whole reason I lowered it to Jimmy Page height in the first place was because anything above the belt just looks awkward on my skinny ass.
> 
> I do like the look of the Majesty, though, so if that happens to be the right guitar for me, I'll have no complaints.



I'd try Jackson as besides my Mayones was the thinnest/smallest neck and having played Gibson 60s style necks for 16 years I wanted something as close to that as possible on my 7.

as far as guitar height, form over function is not the way to go, looks have to come secondary but to each his own...


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## Mathemagician (Mar 11, 2017)

I have smaller hands, been there. 

1) raise your strap mine was always high, but I nudged A bit higher with a 7
2) move your thumb to the back of the neck and practice keeping it there. That's the "right" way to play without injury, I had to adjust my technique too
3) Ernie ball or sterling dif budget is an issue. The 15.5" radius on JP7 is fantastic

The majesty has the best upper fret access of all time though. And they look cool IMO.


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## Hollowway (Mar 11, 2017)

Science_Penguin said:


> To be fair, it's less painful if I raise my strap up to Yngwie or Petrucci height... but the whole reason I lowered it to Jimmy Page height in the first place was because anything above the belt just looks awkward on my skinny ass.
> 
> I do like the look of the Majesty, though, so if that happens to be the right guitar for me, I'll have no complaints.



Thing is, no one is going to notice how high you wear the guitar except for crappy guitar players. Good guitar players won't care, and the general public doesn't know the difference between a guitar and a bass, much less how high up it is.


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## endmysuffering (Mar 11, 2017)

Why not just buy a used prestige?


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## Science_Penguin (Mar 11, 2017)

Okay, for the sake of not belaboring this point, let's just say I care about how I look. Maybe you don't, maybe you think I shouldn't, I'm not gonna get into an argument about that.

Point is, the neck's not as comfortable as I'd like it to be, and it's only _less_ of a pain at higher strap positions. So, regardless, I'm looking at other options.

I appreciate all of your feedback, otherwise, and I'll definitely give the guitars you suggested a look.


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## Hollowway (Mar 11, 2017)

Science_Penguin said:


> Okay, for the sake of not belaboring this point, let's just say I care about how I look. Maybe you don't, maybe you think I shouldn't, I'm not gonna get into an argument about that.
> 
> Point is, the neck's not as comfortable as I'd like it to be, and it's only _less_ of a pain at higher strap positions. So, regardless, I'm looking at other options.
> 
> I appreciate all of your feedback, otherwise, and I'll definitely give the guitars you suggested a look.



You shouldn't care about the look. 


 JK. I get where you're coming from. If it makes you feel better to have it lower, then totally go with that.


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## jephjacques (Mar 12, 2017)

You're gonna look like a dork playing a 7-string anyway, only nerds care about guitars anymore


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## cip 123 (Mar 12, 2017)

Get a baritone 6.


Or pull your strap up. No one cares what you look like when you can actually play your guitar.


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## Chokey Chicken (Mar 12, 2017)

Did i read correctly? The problem goes away when you change strap positions, but you don't want to change that because it looks dumb. 

If so, then this thread reads as "it hurts when i punch myself in the face. How do i make it not hurt without stopping with the punches." lol

Physical harm isn't worth "looking cool." I won't bring it up further though since you requested.


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## Rachmaninoff (Mar 12, 2017)

Science_Penguin said:


> My hands are pretty damn small,



Honestly, most the time I heard people complaining about small hands, they had *average* sized hands, *not* small. The issue was just bad technique.


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## Science_Penguin (Mar 12, 2017)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Did i read correctly? The problem goes away when you change strap positions, but you don't want to change that because it looks dumb.



No. As I said, it doesn't go away with higher positions, it just lessons, so, in the end I'm still looking for better options.

And I know physical harm isn't worth looking cool, that's the other reason I'm looking. And if it doesn't work, my sixes still feel great no matter what, so it's not like I'm stubbornly opting to give myself CTS here.


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## cip 123 (Mar 12, 2017)

Science_Penguin said:


> No. As I said, it doesn't go away with higher positions, it just lessons, so, in the end I'm still looking for better options.
> 
> And I know physical harm isn't worth looking cool, that's the other reason I'm looking. And if it doesn't work, my sixes still feel great no matter what, so it's not like I'm stubbornly opting to give myself CTS here.



Buy a baritone 6.


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## Science_Penguin (Mar 12, 2017)

cip 123 said:


> Buy a baritone 6.



If that was all I needed, I'd have tuned one of my backups to B by now.


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## cip 123 (Mar 12, 2017)

Science_Penguin said:


> If that was all I needed, I'd have tuned one of my backups to B by now.



Well given your problem, I would take a look and see if you absolutely need a 7, do you use all the strings or can they be played with some smart tunings on a 6.


I regularly tune my low E to B and keep the rest standard. Gives me the low range of a 7 and high range of a 6.

Bands like monuments play in weird open tunings to play certain songs (presumably because they're hands can't play them in normal positions). So think about your tunings.


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## Thrashman (Mar 12, 2017)

^ Monuments don't play in odd tunings "because they can't play them in standard" at all, it's because it gives you a different palette.

FYI.


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## cip 123 (Mar 12, 2017)

Thrashman said:


> ^ Monuments don't play in odd tunings "because they can't play them in standard" at all, it's because it gives you a different palette.
> 
> FYI.



I didn't know the real reasoning though the real reason could give OP something to think about. 

(Also wasn't a bash to Monuments those dudes are sick)


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## Science_Penguin (Mar 12, 2017)

My point is, if I didn't plan on using all the strings, then I wouldn't have started this thread, as I've been de-tuning my sixes for years now.

The reason I'm looking at sevens is because I want something that can get me the low notes of my de-tuned sixes, while staying in Standard tuning.


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## diagrammatiks (Mar 13, 2017)

I really don't know if hand size has anything to do with it. Get a neck profile that feels ok and then adjust your technique until it feels good.

Nothing will really work if your guitar is by your waist. There's a reason why the progressive seven and eight string players play in classical or have their guitars up by their ears. 

I have smaller hands then the guy that posted his hand. My main guitars are a 28.625 inch 6 string baritone and a 25 - 27 inch fanned seven .


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## gujukal (Mar 13, 2017)

You should try a fanned fret guitar with asymmetrical neck. Skervesens multi scale guitars have some of the best neck profiles out there imo.


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## cip 123 (Mar 13, 2017)

gujukal said:


> You should try a fanned fret guitar with asymmetrical neck. Skervesens multi scale guitars have some of the best neck profiles out there imo.



Fan would be worse as the low frets are spread out even more and in general are even wider than traditional fretted necks.


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## Dcm81 (Mar 13, 2017)

If you wanna look cooler and have your guitar slung low, then go for it, I can relate (albeit 10 years ago .
You mentioned that the pain only lessens if you raise the guitar instead of completely negating it.......just consider; that pain or discomfort might have (probably was) initially been caused by the low hanging guitar over time. Ergo, having it higher over an extended period of time should eleviate the problem.
When your guitar is pretty low and your playing anything other than the simplest of chords, your forcing your wrist/hand into an unnatural position requiring more strain than if the guitar were higher. My rule of thumb: if the guitar is hanging lower than where it is in a seated position - it's too low!

BTW, this isn't a dig at you! I can totally relate as was in the same boat for years.......I mean c'mon who really looks cooler on stage, Hetfield or Letchford ;-D
And at the end of the day sounding good comes befor looking good.


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## Science_Penguin (Mar 13, 2017)

Dcm81 said:


> If you wanna look cooler and have your guitar slung low, then go for it, I can relate (albeit 10 years ago .
> You mentioned that the pain only lessens if you raise the guitar instead of completely negating it.......just consider; that pain or discomfort might have (probably was) initially been caused by the low hanging guitar over time. Ergo, having it higher over an extended period of time should eleviate the problem.
> When your guitar is pretty low and your playing anything other than the simplest of chords, your forcing your wrist/hand into an unnatural position requiring more strain than if the guitar were higher. My rule of thumb: if the guitar is hanging lower than where it is in a seated position - it's too low!
> 
> ...



That was true of my sixes as well... back when an Ibanez and a Jackson were my two mains. I later discovered that Fender and ESP had necks that fit my hand better, and, from there I discovered I experienced no discomfort on those no matter how low I played.

I figure similar logic may apply to a seven string. Just a matter of finding guitars with the right necks.


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## gujukal (Mar 13, 2017)

cip 123 said:


> Fan would be worse as the low frets are spread out even more and in general are even wider than traditional fretted necks.



I had a 25-26" Skervesen and the neck felt like playing a six-string almost. The asymmetrical neck shape makes it extremle comfortable on the higher frets, because of how it gets thinner where you have your thumb.


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## Fred the Shred (Mar 13, 2017)

Things such as these are very subjective. I'd try a few guitars just to get a feel for the neck shapes they employ and whether you feel it to be fatiguing or something you can play comfortably on for a while. For example, Ibby necks are loved to death by many people, yet are known to cause discomfort and even painful playing sessions to some people.

If there's an inherent posture problem, then you should work on it (especially due to the risk of stress related damage in the future), but that in itself is just part of the equation, and checking out what really works for you is crucial here.


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## cip 123 (Mar 13, 2017)

Listening to Fred is probably the best advice you'll get^


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## clubshred (May 2, 2017)

Dcm81 said:


> If you wanna look cooler and have your guitar slung low, then go for it, I can relate (albeit 10 years ago .
> You mentioned that the pain only lessens if you raise the guitar instead of completely negating it.......just consider; that pain or discomfort might have (probably was) initially been caused by the low hanging guitar over time. Ergo, having it higher over an extended period of time should eleviate the problem.
> When your guitar is pretty low and your playing anything other than the simplest of chords, your forcing your wrist/hand into an unnatural position requiring more strain than if the guitar were higher. My rule of thumb: if the guitar is hanging lower than where it is in a seated position - it's too low!
> 
> ...




This. All day long.


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## ixlramp (May 4, 2017)

The pain is coming from bad technique: thumb over neck top and low guitar, this will cause you problems on a 6 too, maybe not now but in future.
There is a limit to how narrow a nut can be on a 7 and the narrower it is the more difficult it is to cleanly play chords due to narrow string spacing. Neck profile will not make much of a difference here if you are using bad technique.
You obviously want to play a 7 so you just have to use better technique.

The issues with how it looks is in your mind only, unfortunately it is fashionable in young rock bands to have terrible technique and low-slung guitars, to the point that players are automatically afraid of good posture and good technique even if no-one around is expressing disapproval of it.
It's type of inverted snobbery, wanting to look and play sloppy because somehow it is 'cool'.

Consider that if i go to a live performance and see young guys with bad technique and low guitars i tend to think less of them for the above reasons. If someone thinks less of you for good technique then who cares? they are an idiot. Anyone you would respect would respect you for using good healthy technique.
Someone who plays with good technique in sloppy rock band culture is automatically truly cool because they are individual and don't conform or worry about what this stupid culture expects.


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## Science_Penguin (May 5, 2017)

Okay, after experimenting a bit with the advice you guys have given me, let me explain my findings:

I tried playing with the proper technique for a while. Thumb behind the neck, and guitar strapped at various higher points than I usually have it.

The proper technique actually winds up causing me more pain than the way I normally play, and that's regardless of strap height. 

I think the problem is, I suffered a strain injury I got in High School that's never quite healed up just right. Believe it or not, I actually used to play with the guitar strapped up to my chest and my thumb behind the neck. As it turns out, this might not have been such a good idea (or maybe I was still doing it wrong, I dunno) cause of the way it bent my wrist. Couple that with the neck-heaviness of the guitar I was using at the time- not a good idea to support that with just your thumb and fingers while simultaneously trying to learn how to sweep. 

After that, every time I picked up my guitar and played for a bit, my wrist would get sore and my fingers would start going numb.

I found out later that wrapping my hand around the neck like most guitarists is a good way to keep my wrist straight, which ensures there are less problems. In fact, I figured that was why most guitarists did it instead of playing everything classical style. This recent experiment trying out the proper method on my seven was a good reminder of why I did that. Plus, there's the fact that I move around a lot on stage- I need better grip for that.

Far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with my technique, cause, at least on my sixes, I'm in literally no pain. The fact that I can consistently play with the strap as low as I have it and experience no discomfort is pretty telling in my book.

So, again, I'm led to believe its the guitar that's causing the problem more than anything else. I'll concede that strap height might need to be adjusted a bit just to compensate for the added thickness, but, from what I've gathered, my Ibanez is the main problem.

If there's really not a seven string on the market that'll suit my needs, then that's ifne. I've got my sixes, they're doing alright by me, I'll just keep detuning. I didn't start this thread cause I'm desperately seeking a seven, I started it just to see if I could get some suggestions.


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## ixlramp (May 5, 2017)

It might help to have the guitar at medium height but at a higher angle, like many metal guitarists (this also looks good), this is better for your fretting wrist. If the guitar does not balance well at a high angle moving strap buttons can help.
Having the guitar really high up and horizontal may not be best, lower and at a high angle creates the most natural position for your fretting wrist.
No pain doesn't mean good technique, thumb over the top is simply bad technique, and if most guitarists do it that's because most guitarists have bad technique.
It's completely possible to be mobile on stage and still have the thumb on the back of the neck, just a more skillful type of mobile.
Essentially, buying another 7 with a slightly thinner nut and slightly different neck shape will be a waste of money if you continue the bad technique, because any slight advantage you gain is lost due to the true problem continuing.


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## diagrammatiks (May 5, 2017)

With your technique you'd essentially need to find a seven that is as wide as a six. I think that's going to be hard if not impossible. 

I dunno. I've been trying to use my thumb more. but on my sevens it's really only there to let my hand know where it is. I hardly grab the back of the neck at all. I've been told that that is wrong as well. Who knows. But my skervesen has a really thin neck width compared to ibanez sevens I've played and there's still way to grab the entire back. It's way too wide.


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## domsch1988 (May 5, 2017)

I'm not wanting to get deeper into this, but several times in this thread and in many others as well it was noted the "thumb over the top" is bad technique. When exactly did that happen?
I personally do this always. I use my thumb for fretting. Some stretches are only possible that way (for me anyways). I do lose so much control over my vibrato and bendings without it. I need a solid anchor point for this. The thumb on the back of the Neck does not provide that for me.
On the rare occasion i do shred those three not per string lines i switch, but generalizing that your thumb over the neck is bad technique is really to simple in my book.
And yes, i do have my guitars up there, petrucci style. Best improvement i ever made to my technique and playing overall.


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## GuitarBizarre (May 5, 2017)

Science_Penguin said:


> Okay, for the sake of not belaboring this point, let's just say I care about how I look.



Yeah, and all the really cool people in the 70's said earplugs were for pussies. 

Now they're all deaf. But it's OK because they weren't pussies, right?

Your technique is hurting you. Potentially permanently. 

Suck up your ego and make the change that actually needs making instead of wasting time, money, and effort looking for a solution to a problem that won't go away until you change your technique.


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## diagrammatiks (May 5, 2017)

domsch1988 said:


> I'm not wanting to get deeper into this, but several times in this thread and in many others as well it was noted the "thumb over the top" is bad technique. When exactly did that happen?
> I personally do this always. I use my thumb for fretting. Some stretches are only possible that way (for me anyways). I do lose so much control over my vibrato and bendings without it. I need a solid anchor point for this. The thumb on the back of the Neck does not provide that for me.
> On the rare occasion i do shred those three not per string lines i switch, but generalizing that your thumb over the neck is bad technique is really to simple in my book.
> And yes, i do have my guitars up there, petrucci style. Best improvement i ever made to my technique and playing overall.



especially on a seven string I can't for the life of me see how thumb over can possibly help you do stretches.

as for the vibrato and bending...you really don't need that much anchor? but if you do I guess it's not super bad. 

two caveats...I have super small hands so thumbing over basically means I only have access to half the fretboard. There might be a point where your hands are big enough where it doesn't matter. I also love holcomb's playing and he is thumb over all the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4433rhnaxw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRrOAgdai_g

gorilla hands but even he moves his thumb down when he needs to stretch.


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## domsch1988 (May 5, 2017)

diagrammatiks said:


> especially on a seven string I can't for the life of me see how thumb over can possibly help you do stretches.
> 
> as for the vibrato and bending...you really don't need that much anchor? but if you do I guess it's not super bad.
> 
> ...



Ok, i don't own a 7 string, so can't say for sure. On my 8 it depends. It surely isn't thumb over on the 8, but not classical position either. For Reference, On my 6's i can Fret the low E with my thumb and still comfortably reach the low E and A strings with my index and middle finger. So, maybe i have huge hands  plus i have a 12-58 set in standard, so naturally my bends require more force 

Stretching is again a question of specific position and what you're trying to do. But, your guitar has 6 strings and, minus thumb, you have 4 fingers. So naturally there are chord shapes the "require" the thumb.

But that was my point entirely. I don't disagree that there are positions, styles and situations where you need to move your hand around to a more "classical" position. But some people here act like having your thumb over the fretboard is wrong and should never be done ever...


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## Science_Penguin (May 5, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> Your technique is hurting you. Potentially permanently.



Except it's not, as long as I don't play the seven, which is hardly my primary instrument. Calm down.



ixlramp said:


> It might help to have the guitar at medium height but at a higher angle, like many metal guitarists (this also looks good), this is better for your fretting wrist. If the guitar does not balance well at a high angle moving strap buttons can help.
> Having the guitar really high up and horizontal may not be best, lower and at a high angle creates the most natural position for your fretting wrist.



That might actually be a solid idea. My guitar's usually pretty horizontal, I might want to give the angle a shot... don't know of too many other places I can move the strap button on an RG though...


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## GuitarBizarre (May 5, 2017)

Science_Penguin said:


> Except it's not, as long as I don't play the seven, which is hardly my primary instrument. Calm down.
> 
> 
> 
> That might actually be a solid idea. My guitar's usually pretty horizontal, I might want to give the angle a shot... don't know of too many other places I can move the strap button on an RG though...



I've hurt my wrists permanently by making basically the same assumption you are - that one specific piece of equipment was the problem, because other pieces of equipment didn't give the same issue. This isn't a matter of me "calming down". This is a matter of me having made the mistake for you.

Fix your technique, or stop being such a prima donna about the way you look onstage. Those are your options. Anything else is a bandaid at best.


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## domsch1988 (May 5, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> I've hurt my wrists permanently by making basically the same assumption you are - that one specific piece of equipment was the problem, because other pieces of equipment didn't give the same issue. This isn't a matter of me "calming down". This is a matter of me having made the mistake for you.
> 
> Fix your technique, or stop being such a prima donna about the way you look onstage. Those are your options. Anything else is a bandaid at best.



While i do agree on the subject, i think several people made that point very clear to OP. We are all old enough to make our own life decisions. OP seems to have understood what we are saying and what the potential up- and downsides are.
I see no need to discuss this any further


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## Science_Penguin (May 5, 2017)

GuitarBizarre said:


> I've hurt my wrists permanently by making basically the same assumption you are - that one specific piece of equipment was the problem, because other pieces of equipment didn't give the same issue. This isn't a matter of me "calming down". This is a matter of me having made the mistake for you.
> 
> Fix your technique, or stop being such a prima donna about the way you look onstage. Those are your options. Anything else is a bandaid at best.



Well, I appreciate you're trying to help, and, out of respect, I won't argue with you on this any further.

It was never my intention to start a fight here, and I apologize to everyone if I'm being difficult. I'm thinking the best thing might be to just drop this.


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