# Unreal... I received a guitar today... shipped without a box!!!



## mystix (Sep 30, 2015)

In my 20 years of buying and selling, I've never had this happen(nor have a I done this to someone).

I got a guitar today(shipped from New Hampshire to NJ) from a seller off of a Facebook group. I'm travelling for work and I got a text from my wife that said:

"Sooooooo.... did you know this guy was going to ship without a box?"

What?!?!?! she then sent me this pic







Who the hell ships a guitar without a box?!?!?!?! The seller used plastic zip ties to keep the case shut, but damn... I'm worried as hell. I don't get home until tomorrow... I'm hoping that the guitar itself is ok.

Hopefully, I'll be posting a HNGD thread tomorrow!!!


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## nicktao (Sep 30, 2015)

Wow, yeah some people just don't know how badly carriers treat packages. I've gotten plenty of guitars that were just dumped in a box with a bit of packing peanuts. Luckily, they've all turned out fine so far.


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## Shask (Sep 30, 2015)

My dad got a $1600 PRS like this once. We couldn't believe it. The lock was locked, and couldn't get it open cause the keys were inside. We had to break the lock to get the guitar out. 

This was about...... 2001 maybe? Ridiculous....


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 30, 2015)

Anything over a grand and I usually send an extra $50 to have the courier box up everything. It's relatively cheap, doesn't really raise the shipping price, and you get even better protection on top of insurance (they can't claim you packed it wrong if they pack it). I then get aa pic of the full receipt.


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## feraledge (Sep 30, 2015)

A buddy of mine shipped me a guitar like this, I was freaking out! Yet the guitar was totally fine. I ended up shipping a head in a flight case later (tubes removed and wrapped, of course) after the local shipper convinced me that it was a better move than boxing it. The argument is that if it's a box, it gets treated as a well padded box and tossed around, however, if it is awkward, has handles and it's obvious as to what it is, then it will ultimately be handled in a more ideal manner.
Granted that's all based off of ideals. A flight case is theoretically the most ideal way to ship a guitar. That said, I would never do it. But it's at least likely that if the case looks fine, the guitar should be as well.


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## MoshJosh (Sep 30, 2015)

Ok so once I shipped a guitar, a cheap one, in a gig bag covered with an entire roll of bubble wrap. . . It looked like a huge bubble wrapped phallus. 

It made it haha

I know I know. . . Shame on me


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## downburst82 (Sep 30, 2015)

I remember a couple of years ago I had a guitar shipped to me in just a padded gig-bag wrapped in brown packing paper. 

When it arrived and I saw how it was packed my heart sank and I dreaded opening it.....Amazingly it was somehow actually ok.


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## mrdm53 (Sep 30, 2015)

Sometimes i ship guitar just using a gigbag, and ask the courier to using wood package instead of regular box casing

turns out to be fine everytime

wood package like this:


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## High Plains Drifter (Sep 30, 2015)

I can see an individual shipping gear like that, but not a company... although it would still make me cringe a little regardless. At the very least I would hope that it was bubble-wrapped or padded with lots of newspaper. 

At least it was a hard-case and not a gig-bag. 

Hope all will be found undamaged.


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## SandyRavage (Sep 30, 2015)

I've shipped about a dozen guitars this way when I use UPS combined with the insurance and packed inside for war. I have never had a single issue with it and to be honest have found that they are treated a lot better when they know what they are and covered in fragile stickers etc. 

Hopefully he went hard with the foam and packing material on the inside and reinforced the .... out of it...

Just my 2 cents but I'm also very upfront when selling a guitar this way.


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## WolleK (Sep 30, 2015)

I received my Ibanez RG1077 XXl the same way.... it was all okay but still i can not understand why the seller did this


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## marcwormjim (Sep 30, 2015)

I've shipped $2,000+ guitars this way - That's what the cases are built for. Insurance costs no more, no less than if you single or double-boxed it.


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## MaxOfMetal (Sep 30, 2015)

It's worth noting that it's very important to see what the shippers' pack standards are, especially if you think insurance is going to cover losses. 

Just about every shipper will list what it considers "proper packaging" . If you don't follow them to the letter it can automatically invalidate any insurance you placed on the item and will even keep you from recouping money if they admit the item was mishandled. 

Basically, if you don't follow the shipping rules you might as well not insure the item as they pretty much have no reason to properly deliver it.


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## mbardu (Oct 1, 2015)

Haha this happened to me already 3 times (but many many guitars though, so still not super frequent).

Hope the guitar is OK!


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## Vrollin (Oct 1, 2015)

Why wouldn't it be ok? While it is nice to have it in a box, a layer of cardboard around the outside of a case isn't going to do any more to protect the guitar than the case itself will do.... If you had to put your guitar on a plane with you would you put it in a cardboard box?


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## aesthyrian (Oct 1, 2015)

Jeeze, at least wrap it in brown paper to disguise it so it's not just screaming "steal me!". I think besides the added protection a cardboard box adds, it's also worth noting that it can possibly discourage theft and add a layer of privacy, which is also protection from theft.

I can see if this was a Squire perhaps... but otherwise I find it lazy, rude and inconsiderate of the seller to do.


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## marcwormjim (Oct 1, 2015)

And it wouldn't hurt to put a bow on it.


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## Dusty Chalk (Oct 1, 2015)

It depends on the case -- if it's a flight case, fine, but if it's one of the nicer tolex or leather cases (PRS, Parker, Carvin), you owe me a new case.


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## Churchie777 (Oct 1, 2015)

I dont really see the big deal isnt that what the case is for? i normally just bubble wrap the .... out of the case (neatly) and it does just fine specially if its just domestic


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## Edika (Oct 1, 2015)

The last three guitars I bought where poorly packed but arrived safely luckily. The worst of all was the Ibanez V which came with the hard case and just a thin semitransparent film outside the case! A bit of bubble wrap in the case and luckily it came in one piece. Good thing it was a purchase within the UK even though it took almost a week to arrive. Then the second one was a Schecter SLS C1 that came with no case and just in a simple Schecter cardboard box. The guitar it self was fully bubble wrapped in the box but that when I saw the box immediate my heart was racing. Luckily no problems with the guitar again it was a purchase in the UK and didn't travel too far. The last guitar I received, a Jackson SL2H that came from the US, it was in a hardshell case and in a box, but the packing material in between the box and case was so insufficient that if something happened there was no way there would be compensation from the shipping company. 

I've shipped two guitars in my life so far. The first arrived in one piece but it wasn't super well packed. It had padding but it was simple boxed and was the padding didn't keep it in place all to well. The second guitar I shipped, having learned my lesson, was in a hard case and double boxed, with bubble wrap in the case, outside the whole case and outside the first box. There was no way in hell that guitar would be damaged unless somebody put significant effort.


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## Guamskyy (Oct 1, 2015)

MaxOfMetal said:


> It's worth noting that it's very important to see what the shippers' pack standards are, especially if you think insurance is going to cover losses.
> 
> Just about every shipper will list what it considers "proper packaging" . If you don't follow them to the letter it can automatically invalidate any insurance you placed on the item and will even keep you from recouping money if they admit the item was mishandled.
> 
> Basically, if you don't follow the shipping rules you might as well not insure the item as they pretty much have no reason to properly deliver it.



Max is on point 

I've been working behind the counter of a UPS Store for 4 years now, and with UPS, if someone puts insurance on anything but they pack it themselves and not the UPS Store employees, any additional insurance (other than the standard insurance of up to $100) is void. Reason being just like how Max said, everyone's standard of "proper packaging" sometimes does not jive with UPS, listing some as:

Packed with newspaper/brown paper
Not enough packing on all sides of the contents (allow 2 inches every side for packing material such as foam, bubble wraps, or packing peanuts)

Rule of thumb for packaging anything is that if you were to shake the box and you heard no shifting/shaking of the contents inside, you're all set. If you hear wiggling and play in the box, open it back up and put some more packing material in there.

Also, I'll be honest in saying that the only thing that will cause a carrier to handle a package with more care is a indication of the package being high-value, or insured at or over $1000. With a package being high-value, each UPS employee that touches it while in transit must sign off on it and be held accountable if anything happens. Fragile stickers? They must have packed it good, kick it harder & throw it harder. Top load only? You wish. This side up? I'll make sure it stays that way the entire time it is in transit. All UPS packages getting loaded out of the truck at the end of the day are put on a conveyor belt from the truck to the sorting facility and go through the _first_ drop between conveyor belts (UPS drivers tell me looks like 10 ft.) Best way to make sure something is packed well is to read the UPS rules and do it yourself (keep in mind the added insurance has a good chance of being void if a claim is started and UPS finds out you packaged it yourself, despite following the rules) or have the people behind the counter pack it up for you. Hell, you can even bring the guitar 95% packaged up and ask them to top it off with peanuts or ask if they can re-package it up for you using your box, and from that it will be technically considered center packed and take the load off of packaging the guitar correctly from you the shipper to the store.

To the OP, that is completely unacceptable to ship guitar just in it's case like that, especially with how carriers like UPS or Fedex handle the volume of packages they receive daily. When I package my or customer's guitars, I even wrap the guitar in bubble wrap, put it back in it's case, and then into a box. If it can't fit, I'll wrap the extremities of the guitar to keep it from wiggling in the case.


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## Chokey Chicken (Oct 1, 2015)

Its pretty scary to have a guitar packed like this. Certainly not ideal. At the least, it leaves the case vulnerable to damage. At the worst, it constitutes inadequate packing and can lead to lack of insurance compensation. I always pad the guitar so it doesn't wiggle in its case, and then double box it, again making sure nothing moves when I shake it. 

Hopefully all is well, and I'm sure it is. Guitars are surprisingly hardy. I've had loose guitars in barely padded boxes (lots of movement inside) arrive perfectly fine. A hard case should keep the guitar generally safe, but it might .... you over in the end.


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## High Plains Drifter (Oct 1, 2015)

Sort of unrelated since the OP obviously received this guitar from an individual but out of any company that I've bought guitars from, Sweetwater definitely has the best and most consistent packing procedure. I swear you could just have those boxes dropped out of a low-flying aircraft without incident. 

I would rather err on the side of caution and package something a little more secure and bullet-proof than not enough. In the case of the OP ( get it... "case" ) I would be more concerned about potential theft as well as damage to the outside of the case including latches, handle, rivets, etc. Hell... maybe the shipper put the zip-ties in place, but maybe the curious and disgruntled wanna-be rock-star delivery driver put the zip-ties on there after going all EVH on the contents. You never know. A secondary box just provides me a little more piece of mind. 

I have a real horror-story regarding a head/ cabinet conversion disaster that I might post about in a separate thread sometime. It took about 3 weeks to resolve and was an absolute nightmare from start to finish. You just never know what's going to happen in transit lol.


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## Emperor Guillotine (Oct 1, 2015)

Isn't this what the case is for? I imagine it would get the same amount of treatment when it's thrown in a trailer and taken around the country on tour.

Needless to say, I shipped a guitar like this once. Just the form-fitted case, but I stuffed any potential nook and cranny (any gap) with excess bubble wrap just to be safe. The guitar arrived perfectly fine because, again, that is what the case is for. You guys really think a thin box made merely of cardboard would cause anything to be different or add any extra security?...it's cardboard...


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## marcwormjim (Oct 1, 2015)

Unless otherwise specified by the buyer, I ship my guitars in a security blanket.


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## electriceye (Oct 1, 2015)

I got a beat up KV Pro a couple of years ago for pretty cheap. The case was shipped in a box, but it DID have an old UPS tag on it and the case is fairly damaged. So I assumed the guy I bought it from received it that way from the guy who absolutely MOLESTED the guitar (I've had to re-wire it, it had a new nut, frets are weird, etc). I also got a BC Rich Gunslinger a few years back and the guy took the neck off to make the package smaller. But he kept the string attached to the guitar! so, it got an even bigger relic job in shipping.... Some people are, simply, f&cking idiots.


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## feraledge (Oct 1, 2015)

So... how's the guitar?


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## mystix (Oct 1, 2015)

electriceye said:


> I got a beat up KV Pro a couple of years ago for pretty cheap. The case was shipped in a box, but it DID have an old UPS tag on it and the case is fairly damaged. So I assumed the guy I bought it from received it that way from the guy who absolutely MOLESTED the guitar (I've had to re-wire it, it had a new nut, frets are weird, etc). I also got a BC Rich Gunslinger a few years back and the guy took the neck off to make the package smaller. But he kept the string attached to the guitar! so, it got an even bigger relic job in shipping.... Some people are, simply, f&cking idiots.



Holy lord


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## mystix (Oct 1, 2015)

feraledge said:


> So... how's the guitar?



I get home later tonight.


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## HumanFuseBen (Oct 1, 2015)

hahahaha yup, i have received a guitar shipped like this, only instead of trust zip ties, the case was taped shut with packing tape. some people....


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## bloc (Oct 1, 2015)

If I was the courier, God only knows I wouldn't have stopped myself from cracking that case open and rocking out before knocking on your door.


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## pastanator (Oct 1, 2015)

semi unrelated but I saw a few pictures recently where someone bought an orange head from 72 and the dude who shipped it literally put it in a box and chucked a handful of packing peanuts in there. Dude got it with the shell of the amp in pieces. The amp itself was fine along with all the tubes but still


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## Vrollin (Oct 2, 2015)

pastanator said:


> semi unrelated but I saw a few pictures recently where someone bought an orange head from 72 and the dude who shipped it literally put it in a box and chucked a handful of packing peanuts in there. Dude got it with the shell of the amp in pieces. The amp itself was fine along with all the tubes but still



Wait, you mean a cardboard box didn't protect it? He probably could have put it in a case but I've heard they are .... compared to cardboard in some instances...


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## brett8388 (Oct 2, 2015)

I've received two guitars shipped directly in their cases - no box - over the years and neither was damaged. Shipping a guitar in no case with just a box is a different story - they always arrive damaged. 

So how was the guitar?


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## protest (Oct 2, 2015)

Guamskyy said:


> keep in mind the added insurance has a good chance of being void if a claim is started and UPS finds out you packaged it yourself, despite following the rules



This is absolutely ....ing ridiculous. Seriously, where the .... do they get off just disregarding claims because they weren't packed by one of their employees? I guarantee you I pack everything I ship as good as or better than they would. I go through the trouble of using their approved packing materials, and packing to their standards, and they'll just disregard it? Must be nice to be able to pass off responsibility on your own .... ups.


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## Chokey Chicken (Oct 2, 2015)

Emperor Guillotine said:


> Isn't this what the case is for? I imagine it would get the same amount of treatment when it's thrown in a trailer and taken around the country on tour.
> 
> Needless to say, I shipped a guitar like this once. Just the form-fitted case, but I stuffed any potential nook and cranny (any gap) with excess bubble wrap just to be safe. The guitar arrived perfectly fine because, again, that is what the case is for. You guys really think a thin box made merely of cardboard would cause anything to be different or add any extra security?...it's cardboard...



Yeah, its cardboard. Cardboard that prevents the case itself from sliding around on abrasive surfaces and banging directly into ..... You've got brain injuries if you think a box with cushioning adds nothing to protection. Believe it or not, people like their cases in good condition too. I had some smartass ship me a guitar like this with your train of thought, and I had a ....ed up and cracked case. Ended up getting the guy to give a pretty hefty amount back. More than a cardboard box and 2 minutes of time was worth.

Do everyone a favor. If you can't spring the extra 5-10 bucks to box up an instrument, stop selling .... to people. At the very least, its improper packaging that will have shippers laugh at you when you file a damages claim. And just because its been successful in the past means nothing. I've had a few pointy guitars arrive loose in the box that miraculously survived with no damage. Doesn't make it even close to safe or ideal.


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## ncfiala (Oct 2, 2015)

I have to agree with a few people here and say who cares. A cardboard box will give no extra protection to a guitar that's in a case. Yes it may protect the case a little from scratches but it's just a case and will probably get scratched up anyway. I find it amazing the magical protective properties people sometimes attribute to a few millimeters of cardboard.


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## IbanezDaemon (Oct 2, 2015)

I bought a Jackson DKMG a few years back on ebay which
arrived in a flimsy gig bag and nothing else. Heart in mouth
when I opened the door to the courier. Amazingly there was
no damage and the guitar was in tune.


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## Chokey Chicken (Oct 2, 2015)

ncfiala said:


> I have to agree with a few people here and say who cares. A cardboard box will give no extra protection to a guitar that's in a case. Yes it may protect the case a little from scratches but it's just a case and will probably get scratched up anyway. I find it amazing the magical protective properties people sometimes attribute to a few millimeters of cardboard.



You forgot the legal responsibility. Even if their driver gets drunk and rolls the truck, breaking your instrument, they can claim improper packaging. Accidents do happen, and even the most shielded packages can have damaged goods. Why would anyone willingly risk it when its literally like two extra minutes of packing and negligable in cost? It's lazy and shows a lack of caring.


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## Humbuck (Oct 2, 2015)

I got a guitar in a cardboard box from an eBay auction once...miraculously no damage.


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## ncfiala (Oct 2, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> You forgot the legal responsibility. Even if their driver gets drunk and rolls the truck, breaking your instrument, they can claim improper packaging. Accidents do happen, and even the most shielded packages can have damaged goods. Why would anyone willingly risk it when its literally like two extra minutes of packing and negligable in cost? It's lazy and shows a lack of caring.



Seriously? I guess even the law believes in the magic of cardboard. I'd personally put more faith in bigfoot or ufos.


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## jrstinkfish (Oct 2, 2015)

ncfiala said:


> I have to agree with a few people here and say who cares. A cardboard box will give no extra protection to a guitar that's in a case. Yes it may protect the case a little from scratches but it's just a case and will probably get scratched up anyway. I find it amazing the magical protective properties people sometimes attribute to a few millimeters of cardboard.


Depends on how you pack it in the cardboard. Even in a hardshell case, I pad the guitar in the case, and then pad the box so that both guitar and case don't move at all. If you just slide the case into a cardboard box and leave it at that, yeah, basically no difference.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2015)

ncfiala said:


> Seriously? I guess even the law believes in the magic of cardboard. I'd personally put more faith in bigfoot or ufos.



Throwing the case haphazardly in a cardboard box isn't proper packaging either, not sure what's so hard to understand.  

According to most insurance contractors anything over $500 and/or deemed "fragile" needs to be double boxed. That doesn't mean it just goes in two, thin, plain cardboard boxes, it means you pack it in a smaller box, and then insulate the area between the two boxes. Anything that is considered "liquid sensitive" needs to be made "reasonably water resistant" so expect to wrap things thoroughly in plastic before the outer box. 

All of this is to avoid insurance fraud. You can't pack something stupid and expect a "bonanza" if the carrier doesn't baby the package. 

That said, I don't think folks are giving proper corrugated enough credit. It's water resistant, light, impact resistant, crush resistant, tamper evident, and cheap. There's a reason the greater majority of consumer goods are shipped and sold in cardboard boxes.


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## mbardu (Oct 2, 2015)

With some people being so nonchalant about packing (case only is OK no worries ) it would make me concerned to buy from some folks.

As mentioned, of course it's not a randome thin cardboard that's going to make a difference in protection. It's the additional layer, with an additional cushion of (should be tightly packed) shock-absorbant material like strong bubble wrap or very tightly packed peanuts. Everything then needs to be tightly packed with no movement at all if you shake the package.

To the folks saying it won't make a difference I'd also advise to go back to an older car without crumple zones then. In a crash, the crumple zones take most of the hit, deform like crazy (because they are made to be deformable) and absorb most of the energy away from what you actually want to protect (e.g. you in the car, or the guitar in the case). The more shock absorption, the safer.


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## BuckarooBanzai (Oct 2, 2015)

As was noted by other posters it's not the cardboard itself that offers protection... it's the packing material therein. A loose item inside of a larger cardboard box is protected from abrasion and not much else. If it is suspended in soft packing material then the packing material is providing shock absorption and protecting the item from abrupt inertial change that leads to shiz being broken. If you wrote in your post that it's "just a bit of cardboard" then I read that as "HURR DURR."


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## Chokey Chicken (Oct 2, 2015)

ncfiala said:


> Seriously? I guess even the law believes in the magic of cardboard. I'd personally put more faith in bigfoot or ufos.



Considering you're neglecting to acknowledge the fact that a properly packed box has the equivalent of crumple zones/shock absorption, I wouldn't trust you to ship a package.

Even an improperly padded box provides more protection than no box though. Take a case and toss it around without a box, and then toss one around that's inside a box. I bet I can tell you which is which just by looking at them.

And this is all without taking temperature, weather, etc. changes that are between the point of origin and the destination. The fact that there's even a conversation about this is hilarious to me. There are more problems that can arise other than a dinged and/or physically broken guitar.


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## MaxOfMetal (Oct 2, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> Considering you're neglecting to acknowledge the fact that a properly packed box has the equivalent of crumple zones/shock absorption, I wouldn't trust you to ship a package.
> 
> Even an improperly padded box provides more protection than no box though. Take a case and toss it around without a box, and then toss one around that's inside a box. I bet I can tell you which is which just by looking at them.
> 
> And this is all without taking temperature, weather, etc. changes that are between the point of origin and the destination. The fact that there's even a conversation about this is hilarious to me. There are more problems that can arise other than a dinged and/or physically broken guitar.



 

Whoever thinks this is okay is either lazy, cheap, stupid or a mishmash of all three. 

Folks spend days, weeks, months, etc. trying to buy or sell gear. Looking for $2000 and $3000 guitars for $1000 and $2000 and when they finally make a transaction they skimp on the one thing that will truly seal the deal. 

It's like when folks sweat the extra dollars to use actual PayPal opposed to gift. If you're that frugal, Squiers and GIOs are much better than they were some years back, and you don't have to worry about those too much.


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## pondman (Oct 2, 2015)

I've had around 12 guitars delivered to me like this and all have been ok but its always a surprise. 
One thing I did think is that with the handle exposed its unlikely to get dropped.


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## bzhan1 (Oct 2, 2015)

Surely OP will deliver...


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## Mangle (Oct 2, 2015)

There's a huge difference in traveling with a guitar that's packed into a flight case and shipping a guitar by itself packed that way!

I'd never consider sending a guitar through the mail that way and wouldn't consider one I've received that way as "properly packed".


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## VBCheeseGrater (Oct 2, 2015)

aesthyrian said:


> Jeeze, at least wrap it in brown paper to disguise it so it's not just screaming "steal me!".



Exactly, the box at least kills the temptation. I used to load trucks, saw a few guys get arrested for stealing. When guys knew it was a laptop or something, they would take notice and setup the theft. One tactic was to place boxes they wanted on top of the truck, and when the truck drove off in the morning follow the truck...pick up package once it falls off.


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## Dusty Chalk (Oct 3, 2015)

Chokey Chicken said:


> And just because its been successful in the past means nothing.


Yup. I've had a professional dealer send me an amp with the tubes in it and the cord just whipping around loose. I told him, "miraculously, it came through fine, but in the future you may want to tiewrap the cord to something so that it doesn't whip into the tubes and destroy them." He said they've been doing it this way for years, it'll be fine, nothing's ever happened.

Okay, well...good luck with that.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 3, 2015)

My biggest issue with this here is the fact that it's clearly a guitar that's worth stealing.
Even people who aren't familiar with guitar branding could tell that that one is worth something. In the past 4 years, I've had 4 things stolen from me by UPS / OnTrac. 

Also, +1 to the people emphasizing the wisdom of making UPS do the packaging. I bought an 8 string about this time last year and when it arrived, bubble wrapped in a hard case through 2 boxes, it still had a huge split in the headstock that was plainly caused by extremely rough handling during shipment. I didn't see a dime in compensation, because it was "not properly packaged." 

I'm still pissed about that.


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## mystix (Oct 3, 2015)

I finally got a chance to sit down with the guitar. Nothing fancy or crazy... It's an Ibanez rga121 loaded with Seymour Duncan Black Winter pickups. Here's a pic:







Here's the bad:

I inspected the guitar after I took it out if the case. Seemed like there wasn't any major damage from shipping but there is a good amount of wear that the seller didn't disclose. There was some slight bumps and dings dispersed around the neck and body. The strings were completely rusted. The guitar was completely unplayable when I took it out of the case. I spent a good amount of time cleaning the fretboard I'm getting all the gunk off. After putting a new set of strings and lowering the action a bit she plays great.

However, the biggest letdown is that the electronics are messed up. When going between positions one and five, the guitar volume completely dropped out. I opened it up and the wiring looks funky. Kind of hard to follow. I emailed the seller about it and he said that The volume only dropped out on him once or twice. He never bothered to fix it because it didn't happen often. But for me, it was pretty bad.

Although I've gotten pretty handy with a soldering iron, I'm a dad of a 2 and a half year old and twin 4 month olds. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to take it apart and try to rewire it. I'm lucky if I get 20 min to play a week. 

I got in touch with the seller and he refunded me a decent amount of cash from the original purchase. It's an inconvenience but I should be able to take it to a tech to sort out... Hopefully 

All in all, I think she will be great. Once I get the electronics fixed up


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## feraledge (Oct 3, 2015)

Glad it made it! Sucks that the seller wasn't totally open about everything, but then again, they shipped it in a flight case, so I'm not too surprised. 
I can sympathize so much with the soldering issue. I have 3 year old twins, time is a precious, precious commodity. Hope you're getting some sleep and some shred time.


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## Vrollin (Oct 4, 2015)

Let us know what you think of the black winters when its all sorted. I recently put one in one of my guitars and swapped it back to a distortion again, I really wanted it to be something else but it just didnt match what I was hearing in demos. Keen to hear other peoples opinions on it....


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## USMarine75 (Oct 4, 2015)

Guitarcenter shipped me a used Peavey Wolfgang without a box or case... just wrapped in bubble wrap and tape! The worst part... it had a case. I called and they sent it out separate.


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## Chokey Chicken (Oct 4, 2015)

Glad to hear it arrived with nothing irreversible wrong with it!


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## jrstinkfish (Oct 4, 2015)

Vrollin said:


> Let us know what you think of the black winters when its all sorted. I recently put one in one of my guitars and swapped it back to a distortion again, I really wanted it to be something else but it just didnt match what I was hearing in demos. Keen to hear other peoples opinions on it....


I've had them in two guitars, currently in my KM-6, which came with them. They are ... OK. I don't think I'd buy another set to stick in a guitar, but I'm not sure I'll swap them out of the KM-6.


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## Adam Of Angels (Oct 4, 2015)

I've had this happen. At least it was in the Prestige case, which is one of the best out there. I've had guys send me guitars in the big open, formless swimming pool cases, that were just in a box with no packing materials. Or, they used packing materials around the case, but not in the case, so the guitar just banged around inside. The worst was a BFR, since it was rather expensive and their cases suck at keeping the guitar safe - it showed up with finsh cracks around the strap buttons, and huge neck poket cracks.

If you're ever working out a trade or sale with someone, it's worth asking how they intend to pack and ship the item. Not everybody thinks this stuff through like you'd imagine.


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## jamesfarrell (Oct 4, 2015)

SandyRavage said:


> I've shipped about a dozen guitars this way when I use UPS combined with the insurance and packed inside for war. I have never had a single issue with it and to be honest have found that they are treated a lot better when they know what they are and covered in fragile stickers etc.
> 
> Hopefully he went hard with the foam and packing material on the inside and reinforced the .... out of it...
> 
> Just my 2 cents but I'm also very upfront when selling a guitar this way.



I'd prefer them cats to not know what is inside the box, as I picture UPS guys taking turns hurling the box and missing the catch on purpose. I don't know what it's like in those places, but I hear UPS has some pretty pissed off workers.


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## mystix (Oct 4, 2015)

Vrollin said:


> Let us know what you think of the black winters when its all sorted. I recently put one in one of my guitars and swapped it back to a distortion again, I really wanted it to be something else but it just didnt match what I was hearing in demos. Keen to hear other peoples opinions on it....



I took the pickups out and have them for sale on the classifieds. They were fine but I'm a Dimarzio guy. Going back to Crunchlab and Liquifire combo!!!


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## gfactor (Oct 5, 2015)

When I read the thread title i was thinking without even a case haha. I hope it made it in one piece!


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## Warg Master (Oct 9, 2015)

Dayum!!! That's very crazy. Guitar center sent me my esp in it's case in an old Gibson box with nice, thick, foam. Strange to see GC has done something like this!


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## Humbuck (Oct 9, 2015)

USMarine75 said:


> Guitarcenter shipped me a used Peavey Wolfgang without a box or case... just wrapped in bubble wrap and tape! The worst part... it had a case. I called and they sent it out separate.



Amazing.


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## viesczy (Oct 9, 2015)

That volume drop prolly just needs some contacts cleaned, nothing more nor less. 

Derek


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 9, 2015)

I've gotten a guitar like this ONCE. It was perfectly fine. The case took most of the damage as is its job I suppose, but I wouldn't be happy to see that again.

Also... Nice guitar!


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## FILTHnFEAR (Oct 10, 2015)

OP - The person who shipped this to you should be pimp slapped.

How anyone thinks it's acceptable to ship guitars like this is unbelievable. Thanks to this thread I know who NOT to buy guitars from on SSO. 



jamesfarrell said:


> I'd prefer them cats to not know what is inside the box, as I picture UPS guys taking turns hurling the box and missing the catch on purpose. I don't know what it's like in those places, but I hear UPS has some pretty pissed off workers.



I've worked at UPS before. I cringe whenever I get something shipped through them. Some of those guys went out of their way to throw packages as hard as they could. Slam, bang, smash, and laugh about it. .... made me sick.

So the few times I had GC ship guitars and amps through UPS I actually had nightmares of my stuff getting thrashed. Luckily though, everything has arrived packaged superbly and undamaged.


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## ASoC (Oct 21, 2015)

At least you got a case. I opened a box today and found this inside:






That's not even the worst of it either. Look at the NGD for an insight into my fury


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## electriceye (Oct 22, 2015)

3 kids under 3, including TWINS?? Put the guitar in a closet. You'll get back to her in about 10 years.  My two kids are 9 and 6 1/2 and I don't think I've played in two years. Wish there was a way to make days 48 hours long....


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## soylentgreene (Oct 22, 2015)

Glad it wasn't damaged man. I've never seen a guitar shipped like that but I'm sure it happens more than we realize. Its a beauty tho. Grats \m/


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## mystix (Oct 23, 2015)

electriceye said:


> 3 kids under 3, including TWINS?? Put the guitar in a closet. You'll get back to her in about 10 years.  My two kids are 9 and 6 1/2 and I don't think I've played in two years. Wish there was a way to make days 48 hours long....



I hear you there. I started coming home during my lunch break just to get some playing time in.


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## Herrick (Oct 26, 2015)

I have to admit that I *might* have shipped a guitar without a box the first time I sold a guitar on eBay. 

It was a American Standard Strat in the SKB case. I took it to a shipper that was affiliated with UPS but they weren't an official UPS store. I'm not even sure if the price I paid for shipping included the box. I just assumed they wouldn't ship a guitar without a box and the price I paid included the box & packing. The buyer never complained and they gave me good feedback. 

But it still haunts me to this day that I might have shipped that guitar without a box.


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## Caelumamittendum (Oct 27, 2015)

This was how I recieved my 8 string: 






By some sort of miracle it was perfectly fine. I met the post man at the stairs to my apartment, and he was banging the box against every step.


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## Herrick (Oct 27, 2015)

I've received a couple of basses in boxes like that from Amazon & I think Musiciansfriend.


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## weirdoku (Oct 27, 2015)

Don't people that go on tour just put their guitars in a hard case of some sort then it goes in the back of van? Is this different to sending a guitar in just the hard case by a courier? Okay the couriers could give less .... about what's inside the case but once it's in the back of the van, it's in the back of the van. It's down to how it's handled in between locations.


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## marcwormjim (Oct 27, 2015)

Yeah, but outrage is an emotion; not a principle. Principled posts don't extend a discussion past one page.

It's not really surprising to learn that someone who believes in tonewood attributes a magical degree of protection to cardboard, too. I don't think reason will work against it.

"$hit happens" sums up the whole thread, but that isn't going to discourage autistic smart-asses such as myself from posting zero-insight diatribes about other people's business. Otherwise, it wouldn't be the internet.


In working between two music stores, there was no shortage of "properly" packed guitars and amps nonetheless delivered having been damaged in transit. The courier still may refuse to honor shipping insurance, if they themselves didn't pack it. Suddenly, foam garbage bags secured with a rubber band and plastic pockets of air aren't as crucial. 

Earlier this month, I shipped three instruments cross-country, in nothing more than taped hard cases... 

...Is anyone outraged, yet? 

I shipped them to myself. They're all fine. I didn't spring for cardboard because I find "Fragile" stamps to be just as much a deterrent against rough handling; in that you're utterly at the mercy of the handler.

The last guitar shipped to me by Guitar Center was missing a pickup switch tip, a whammy bar, and a neck pickup cover. It was packed pretty well. I would have rather received it without a dollar's worth of cardboard than twenty's worth in hardware.

You win-lose; you some-some.


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## Ordacleaphobia (Oct 28, 2015)

weirdoku said:


> Don't people that go on tour just put their guitars in a hard case of some sort then it goes in the back of van? Is this different to sending a guitar in just the hard case by a courier? Okay the couriers could give less .... about what's inside the case but once it's in the back of the van, it's in the back of the van. It's down to how it's handled in between locations.



For me anyway, its the concern of theft much more than the concern of damage. Depending on where you live, who works where, and who you have to deal with, its a very real possibility. 

Even on the damage front, we care, strangers done. Even for the 20 minute drive to my mate's place for practice, my guitar is padded inside the case, which is wrapped in a blanket, which is positioned so that short of a car accident, it's very unlikely to move. 

If I were a shipping guy, none of that would be applicable.


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## jrstinkfish (Oct 28, 2015)

I don't think I've ever seen a guitarist throw their case around and into a van/trailer the way UPS/FedEx/USPS loaders do when they're loading a truck. They're not too gentle, which is why it's good to have the case in a box with as much padding as possible. Takes an extra 15 minutes at most, maybe a trip to your local guitar store for a box (my guy always has one for me).


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## Thanatopsis (Oct 29, 2015)

Ridiculous, but better than I expected when I saw the thread title. I expected to see a picture of a guitar with just some bubble wrap and tape around it.


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## punisher911 (Oct 29, 2015)

MoshJosh said:


> Ok so once I shipped a guitar, a cheap one, in a gig bag covered with an entire roll of bubble wrap. . . It looked like a huge bubble wrapped phallus.
> 
> It made it haha
> 
> I know I know. . . Shame on me



Was that to me? I remember getting a guitar sent to me like that.. lol Just don't remember exactly when and from who.. lol


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## Edika (Oct 29, 2015)

To the guys saying that the point of a case is to protect the guitar, cardboard and padding don't do much and that the guitar will be damaged by rough handling regardless of padding I'll say the following:
1) Guitar being packed is a deterrent of theft. Not a huge one but better than advertising what is being shipped.
2) Some of us don't want to receive a banged up case, scratched and cracked from being thrown around. If we produce the wear from throwing it around ourselves that's our decision/right. The courier's job is to bring parcel A to B with the least amount of damage. With this regard in mind why ship porcelain and glass packed for example? If someone wants to break them they can so what's the point?
3) If someone sends something and it arrives damaged and has done so through ebay or Paypal, guess who's taking the hit. It sure won't be the buyer. So you can be as cynical as you want about the subject.


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## Spectivum (Oct 29, 2015)

All my shipment damages were from a pointy part of the item piercing through padding and cardboard and contacting with the ground. Think strap button of guitars, corner of metal pedal boards etc. Carriers do drop the packages so I rather have it in a case than cardboard. I actually read somewhere that carriers prefer cases as they have a handle, while big boxes are slippery. The case could have been bubble wrapped though...


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## BlueGrot (Oct 31, 2015)

A proper flight case ships really well. I don't get the issue. Is some cardboard and styrofoam peanuts gonna ward off damage that this flight case won't protect against?


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## jrstinkfish (Oct 31, 2015)

BlueGrot said:


> A proper flight case ships really well. I don't get the issue. Is some cardboard and styrofoam peanuts gonna ward off damage that this flight case won't protect against?


Shock absorption.


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## BlueGrot (Nov 1, 2015)

Yes, but just because you can measure a difference does not mean that the difference will have an effect in reality.


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## BuckarooBanzai (Jun 3, 2016)

Sorry to necrobump, but this straight up happened to me yesterday. I ordered an archtop acoustic off of Reverb and received it in just the case (which was covered in dirt and such) with the shipping label attached to the handles. I then opened it up to find that one of the screws holding the pickguard on was stripped causing it to rattle, thus making the guitar essentially unplayable. Needless to say I was fawkin' pissed. I wrote the dude on Reverb and demanded a partial refund for the cost of both the case and a professional repair on the guitar ($150) just because I had him over a barrel so that I could get some $$$ back and teach him a lesson. He wrote back that he actually left the guitar at the UPS store and told them to pack it and that they apparently straight up didn't do it. Based upon what he said and how he wrote I 110% believe him. I then felt like a dick and said that I'd take $50 for the repair because that's more fair... hopefully he can make some heads roll at the UPS store because, seriously, WHAT THE FAWK.

Additional dimension to/Moral of the story: It might have been the smegma-breathing ....tards at the UPS store who shipped your guitar without a box.


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## marcwormjim (Jun 3, 2016)

While I do hope UPS owns up to their alleged negligence, claiming that the absence of cardboard caused a screw to strip in a hard-case is going to be difficult to to prove, unless there's a clear point of impact. 

Still, better it happened now than when you travel with the guitar in "just" the case. I'd hate to be in the seller's position - It'd be cheaper for him at have you return the guitar for a full refund, then fix with locktite or a bigger screw before relisting it, rather than pay $50-150 shakedown. I don't doubt you were quoted $50 for the repair - Just spitballing, without photos.


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## BuckarooBanzai (Jun 3, 2016)

marcwormjim said:


> While I do hope UPS owns up to their alleged negligence, claiming that the absence of cardboard caused a screw to strip in a hard-case is going to be difficult to to prove, unless there's a clear point of impact.
> 
> Still, better it happened now than when you travel with the guitar in "just" the case. I'd hate to be in the seller's position - It'd be cheaper for him at have you return the guitar for a full refund, then fix with locktite or a bigger screw before relisting it, rather than pay $50-150 shakedown. I don't doubt you were quoted $50 for the repair - Just spitballing, without photos.



He agreed to the $50... I asked him to make it $45 so he could grab a beer on me in light of my misplaced vindication. It wouldn't really be cheaper though because I asked for return shipping AND original shipping, so he'd be out at least $80 in round-trip shipping costs alone.


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## sezna (Jun 3, 2016)

You have to pay for UPS to box it, right? So does he have a receipt or some proof that UPS was going to box it?

And was it insured shipping? If both of these are true, you can probably get the full declared value of the guitar from UPS, so you both get paid


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## TheTrooper (Jun 3, 2016)

This happened to me too, I think 4 years ago.

It wasn't a cheap guitar, and when it showed up at my door, the delivery guy was holding it via the handle, No box, nothing.

I thought "Why the hell did he take it out of the box?" then I saw the case had stickers and some sticky-tape/seal all over it (When I sold it that thing was still there, impossible to remove).
Thank god nothing was broken (Italian postal service is a f-ucking joke).


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## bostjan (Jun 3, 2016)

Mo Jiggity said:


> Sorry to necrobump, but this straight up happened to me yesterday. I ordered an archtop acoustic off of Reverb and received it in just the case (which was covered in dirt and such) with the shipping label attached to the handles. I then opened it up to find that one of the screws holding the pickguard on was stripped causing it to rattle, thus making the guitar essentially unplayable. Needless to say I was fawkin' pissed. I wrote the dude on Reverb and demanded a partial refund for the cost of both the case and a professional repair on the guitar ($150) just because I had him over a barrel so that I could get some $$$ back and teach him a lesson. He wrote back that he actually left the guitar at the UPS store and told them to pack it and that they apparently straight up didn't do it. Based upon what he said and how he wrote I 110% believe him. I then felt like a dick and said that I'd take $50 for the repair because that's more fair... hopefully he can make some heads roll at the UPS store because, seriously, WHAT THE FAWK.
> 
> Additional dimension to/Moral of the story: It might have been the smegma-breathing ....tards at the UPS store who shipped your guitar without a box.



I'm so confused.

#1 How the hell did improper packaging strip a screw in the pickguard and not damage anything else?!
#2 How the hell does replacing a screw on the pickguard cost $150?!
#3 So, according to your anecdote, the shipper paid UPS to pack the guitar, and it was packed improperly, damaging a $150 screw, and the seller has to pay $45. How does that follow logic?
#4 How is the guitar unplayable with a lose pickguard screw? I mean, rattles, sure, mushy pickguard, sure, but unplayable?

None of this makes any sense.


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## sezna (Jun 3, 2016)

bostjan said:


> I'm so confused.
> 
> #1 How the hell did improper packaging strip a screw in the pickguard and not damage anything else?!
> #2 How the hell does replacing a screw on the pickguard cost $150?!
> ...



Lol. I didn't even stop to think about the damage itself.


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## Chokey Chicken (Jun 3, 2016)

I'm venturing a guess that the wood was stripped out causing the screw to just sort of free float. Not quite as simple as getting a new screw, and certainly worth getting some sort of refund for if it wasn't mentioned. Like getting a guitar with an unannounced scratch or ding. 

That said, it doesn't sound like shipping caused it.

Edit: note that its an archtop acoustic, implying the acoustic sound is desireable. If it rattles, it's a deal breaker.


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## bostjan (Jun 3, 2016)

Chokey Chicken said:


> I'm venturing a guess that the wood was stripped out causing the screw to just sort of free float. Not quite as simple as getting a new screw, and certainly worth getting some sort of refund for if it wasn't mentioned. Like getting a guitar with an unannounced scratch or ding.
> 
> That said, it doesn't sound like shipping caused it.
> 
> Edit: note that its an archtop acoustic, implying the acoustic sound is desireable. If it rattles, it's a deal breaker.



I agree, except that if everything else was great, and I couldn't fix it, I'd be prone to tape or remove the screw and call it okay. But that's a moot point, considering the rest of the story doesn't add up.


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## BuckarooBanzai (Jun 3, 2016)

bostjan said:


> I'm so confused.
> 
> #1 How the hell did improper packaging strip a screw in the pickguard and not damage anything else?!
> #2 How the hell does replacing a screw on the pickguard cost $150?!
> ...




Allow me to answer your enquiries in order:

1) To be perfectly frank I can't conclusively say that this is the case, nor did I. I simply don't care because it's a fairly cheap fix.
2)


> demanded a partial refund for the cost of both the case and a professional repair on the guitar ($150)


The case is $110 and I'm guessing that between the bench time and repair cost $40 sounds about right to have it done correctly. This is admittedly a steep amount but I was more out for blood than for actual justice because I thought the seller was culpable for shipping the guitar sans box, which he wasn't, so I apologized profusely and forewent part of my refund to buy him a beer, which I mentioned. Mea culpa.

3) OBE. See above.

4) The pickguard vibrated every other note or chord that I played. I'm not making this up. It was a PITA. I removed the pickguard altogether and now all is well and the instrument plays and sounds great.

Bottom line is that I got the guitar in unacceptable condition and wanted to make a point and gouge the seller for some money. It ended up that it wasn't his fault so I pumped the brakes and only want money sufficient for repair of the pickguard screw defect. Your selective reading and implication about a "$150 pickguard screw" seems to be a bit misplaced. I am prone to act like a dick but as is clear in this case I'm a reasonable person when confronted with facts.  All is well in the world... the dude offloaded the guitar, I got a decent price on it and it plays well now.


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## Randy (Jun 3, 2016)

So did you actually use the $45 to get it repaired?


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## BuckarooBanzai (Jun 3, 2016)

Randy said:


> So did you actually use the $45 to get it repaired?



Not yet seeing as it came in four hours ago. Gonna either take it to my former bassist (who happens to be a luthier) or ask him how/what to do and do it myself. Honestly I'll probably end up having a beer with him then doing it myself half-assed and rendering the guitar unsaleable on account of my mediocre woodworking skills but c'est la vie.


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## bostjan (Jun 4, 2016)

You never said there was damage to the case, just dirt, so it does not follow that the seller should have ever been asked to pay for the case.

Without seeing how bad the damage is to the screw, it'd just be speculation, but if it's not visibly damaged, you might be able to fix it simply with a toothpick or a small piece of Teflon tape, or maybe just a new screw. If the area is pushed into a large dent, then it'll take more than $45 to repair it, but I never got the impression that was the case. Hopefully it'sounds just loose, so a little sawdust or a toothpick should tighten the threads.

If the seller paid UPS to pack the guitar and they didn't, I just don't see how it's appropriate to shake the seller down for $150. But hey, that'sounds between you and the seller. If you're both happy, then all is well.


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## BuckarooBanzai (Jun 4, 2016)

bostjan said:


> You never said there was damage to the case, just dirt, so it does not follow that the seller should have ever been asked to pay for the case.
> 
> Without seeing how bad the damage is to the screw, it'd just be speculation, but if it's not visibly damaged, you might be able to fix it simply with a toothpick or a small piece of Teflon tape, or maybe just a new screw. If the area is pushed into a large dent, then it'll take more than $45 to repair it, but I never got the impression that was the case. Hopefully it'sounds just loose, so a little sawdust or a toothpick should tighten the threads.
> 
> *If the seller paid UPS to pack the guitar and they didn't, I just don't see how it's appropriate to shake the seller down for $150. But hey, that'sounds between you and the seller. If you're both happy, then all is well*.



It's a "semi-hard" case with a fabric surface so it's never gonna be as clean as it would have been if it hadn't been shipped sans box.

But to the bolded point in your post: I didn't know that when I decided to ask for $150 and when I found out that UPS was at fault I changed my mind. I keep mentioning this and you keep going back to the $150 figure. Go back and read my posts and you'll see plain as day that this is not the case. While it might suit a dramatic forum narrative for me to be a double-barreled asshole and ask for $150 regardless of circumstances that simply doesn't align with reality. For the second if not third time:

1) Guitar received without box
2) Punitive sum of money requested because seller was presumed responsible for ....ty packing
3) Seller absolved of wrongdoing and requested sum altered to be commensurate with repair cost


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## mystix (Jun 4, 2016)

To be honest, just because he claims to have asked ups to pack the guitar in a box doesn't mean he did. Also, if he did, he should have watched them pack it to make sure it was done right. I would have never been ok with leaving a guitar with someone expecting them to pack as good as my standards.


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## sezna (Jun 4, 2016)

mystix said:


> To be honest, just because he claims to have asked ups to pack the guitar in a box doesn't mean he did. Also, if he did, he should have watched them pack it to make sure it was done right. I would have never been ok with leaving a guitar with someone expecting them to pack as good as my standards.



That's why I said he should have a receipt of UPS's boxing/packaging service! They charge for that right? If they didn't do it, and he has proof that they should have, he should be able to raise some kind of hell even if it wasn't damaged.


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## mystix (Jun 4, 2016)

Yeah. I had ups pack for me once. Cost so much more. He should be able to provide that receipt.


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## sandwichamwin (Jun 5, 2016)

I had a C7 Hellraiser show up once diagonally stuffed inside one of those massive all-in-one sony stereo system boxes... No packing, bubblewrap or anything, just jammed in corner to corner where it was so snug the box shape was skewed a bit. I still don't know how it wasn't destroyed in the post, the only thing that saved it is the tree trunk sized neck!


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