# I don't think this guy has enough strings on his bass...



## Vince (Sep 4, 2005)

http://www.myspace.com/stewmckinsey


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## Papa Shank (Sep 4, 2005)

isn't that the guy to get the first ten string conklin? 

anyway, cool beans


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## kovachian (Sep 4, 2005)

Shit, might as well go with an 11 string, what's the point of 'only' 10?


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## Metal Ken (Sep 4, 2005)

i've seen more ;p


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## Shannon (Sep 4, 2005)

Interesting find. Speaking out interesting finds, here's another dude that he's linked to. Les Claypool better watch his back. This guy sings & plays some serious bass. http://www.myspace.com/sethhoran


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## Apophis (Sep 5, 2005)

Check Adler 12 
http://garrygoodman.com/what's_new!.htm


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## zak (Sep 5, 2005)

Why do you even need 12 or 11 strings? I sound optimistic, but if someone could explain it to me it would be appreiciated...something besides extending the natural range please!!!


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## Papa Shank (Sep 5, 2005)

zak said:


> Why do you even need 12 or 11 strings? I sound optimistic, but if someone could explain it to me it would be appreiciated...something besides extending the natural range please!!!


most of these guys use them for touchstyle


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## Allen Garrow (Sep 5, 2005)

jesus christ,,,that thing is freakish by any standard. I seem to remember a blurb on the construction of that monster from Conklin. It is pretty god damn cool though. In the words of Y.J.M. " if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing". Check mate!

~A


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## eleven59 (Sep 5, 2005)

zak said:


> Why do you even need 12 or 11 strings? I sound optimistic, but if someone could explain it to me it would be appreiciated...something besides extending the natural range please!!!


Basically they play it like a piano, tapping with both hands.


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## Naren (Sep 6, 2005)

Wow. I had seen that bass before on the Conklin website and thought that the bass looked like a hulking freakish monster. You can't even put your hand around that neck. But, listening to the MP3s, he seemed to be able to play both bass and lead - almost like a 6-string bass and a jazz guitar with a set of 15-gauge strings on combined into one guitar. Crazy stuff.


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## Digital Black (Sep 6, 2005)

Doesn't look like fun to play standing up..


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## Flesh-EatingMonkey (Sep 6, 2005)

This guy plays a 10 string classical guitar. Nestor Benito. I saw him play last year @ ASU.


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## Vince (Sep 6, 2005)

Flesh-EatingMonkey said:


> This guy plays a 10 string classical guitar. Nestor Benito. I saw him play last year @ ASU.



 What's up with that dude's action! Man, it's high!


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## Hawksmoor (Sep 6, 2005)

desertdweller said:


> What's up with that dude's action! Man, it's high!



All classicals I've played had freaking high action, but this guy idd supasses that.


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## Flesh-EatingMonkey (Sep 7, 2005)

desertdweller said:


> What's up with that dude's action! Man, it's high!



His action is ridiculously high. He's on crack. Actually, the fretboard fades away after the 12th fret on the bass side of the neck, giving the illusion of really high action on those strings. His action is higher than most guitars i've seen, to give the huge-ass low strings room to vibrate. He tunes it: E,B,G,D,A,E,C,Bb,Ab,Gb or sometimes: E,B,G,D,A,E,C,B,Ab,Gb !! 

Here's a pic that shows the fretboad taper:


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## Garry Goodman (Feb 19, 2006)

zak said:


> Why do you even need 12 or 11 strings? I sound optimistic, but if someone could explain it to me it would be appreiciated...something besides extending the natural range please!!!



Hi. I just logged in for the first time, an what do you know? 
This reply may come a little late, but I think it is good to explain why 11 or 12-strings,since I introduced these things.

I have been playing along time and have explored the roles of being a guitarist and an electric bass guitarist. Out of the process I became a composer.arranger and a musician interested in being able to play music, not just guitar and bass parts.

Although I play the 12-string as a touch style instrument,I also play bass lines while strumming chords or,play bass and "lead" at the same time.It's no monster, the neck is less than 3/4" thick.

But from my point of view,I have 435 fretboard positions.This.for instance gives me 8 locations for middle C4. Because my lowest open string is C0(around 16 Hz) I can cover the range of my 7-string bass between the 11th and 17th frets. My 12 has the same range as the Bosendorfer 97-note piano, so I play non-transposed piano music where it is written.Bach two part inventions,Joplin rags(have that Ab6 on "Maple Leaf"),real book tunes etc.Too play this music without having to drop something down an octave in order to hear it is a real treat. So it is the ultimate tapping instrument(tuned in 4ths,no repeared strings) with the largest amount of note locations and the widest range of any guitar now in existance.
Range is very important because I can play those Slonimsky " Equal division of 7 octaves into 6 parts" melodic patterns so i can hear what they sound like.
Could not "own" orchestral string and brass voicings without 12 strings, 8 0ctave.

When I introduced the 7-string bass guitar in the 1980's,people scoffed,laughed etc.Now look at how many there are. Thanks to bassist Jauqo III-X and S.i.T. strings,the low C#0 (17hz) string exists.It's a .,195 gauge string.I now am using a .215 C0 string as my lowest string and for my highest, a 600,000 psi .003.5 string that took me 2 years to develope.I tune it to G4 (392hz) or Ab4 at the 32" scale.It takes a lot to break it. I now have a new .006 G4 string which doesn't break.The same strings tunes to A4 on a 24-26 inch guitar scale.

My highest fret at #36 on the G4 string is G7.and I can fret chromatically,just by touching the string,all the way to C8 on the pick up cover. I play things that have never been heard on an electric guitar before.
When was the last time you played a 7 octave arpeggio on your guitar?

The 11-string,also the first of it's kind was used on my last CD.The bass part on "Bubble Work" are quadruple stops and 4-5 octave arps, ending on a thunderous low C#0.Something new.

I like fresh,new sounds for bass and guitar and these instruments became one instrument with the creation of the Adler 12-string.It keeps me busy for hours on end. With this range and many note locations I can experience music in a way that can't be done with a 41/2 octave bass or guitar.

I hope this give you an insight as to why these guitars exist.
For more on this subject, please check out my interview in Bassics Magazine,issue #40 or Bassinside.com


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## Papa Shank (Feb 19, 2006)

Just to add to this thread, Jean Baudin should be recieving a Naia 12 string instrument in the near future, it looks paticularly tasty.


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## Leon (Feb 19, 2006)

zak said:


> Why do you even need 12 or 11 strings? I sound optimistic, but if someone could explain it to me it would be appreiciated...something besides extending the natural range please!!!


compensation for a small penis


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## Donnie (Feb 19, 2006)

desertdweller said:


> http://www.myspace.com/stewmckinsey


Whoa, how did I miss this thread? Stew is actually a friend of mine. I got a chance to noodle around on his 9 string Conklin a couple of years ago. That guy can play! I met him through my buddy, Greg: http://www.myspace.com/gregorybrucecampbell


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## bostjan (Feb 19, 2006)

That's cool, but notes as low as a bosendorfer piano (16 Hz or whatever) are mainly there for harmonic puposes (to drone out harmonics) since no one can hear the fundamental of 16Hz, but may be able to hear the harmonics at 32Hz, 48Hz, 64Hz, etc. By the time you get up into the clearly audible frequencies, the harmonics are rather faint, though. So an eight octave from 16Hz to 4.1kHz is a little silly.


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## Fret Melter (Feb 19, 2006)

Allen Garrow said:


> jesus christ,,,that thing is freakish by any standard. I seem to remember a blurb on the construction of that monster from Conklin. It is pretty god damn cool though. In the words of Y.J.M. " if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing". Check mate!
> 
> ~A



Uhh..... I think that was senior Pablo Gilberto who said that actually......


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## EverDream (Feb 20, 2006)

Garry Goodman said:


> and for my highest, a 600,000 psi .003.5 string that took me 2 years to develope.I tune it to G4 (392hz) or Ab4 at the 32" scale.It takes a lot to break it. I now have a new .006 G4 string which doesn't break.The same strings tunes to A4 on a 24-26 inch guitar scale.



Is there anyway I could purchase some of those strings? Because I wanted to tune my 6 string guitar (25.5" scale) ADGcea so I bought a custom string set using D'Addario strings gauges .007 - .036 and when I stringed the guitar and I first went to tune the 1st string up to pitch it snapped somewhere shortly after F#, I guess the lbs. of break in the string was too low, I had a spare and now I have the guitar tuned to F tuning (1 half step higher than standard) I didn't want to do F# even though it tuned there fine because that's too close to the breaking point, lol. But I really would like to tune to A because I want to use my 6 string as mainly a lead guitar (I have a 7 string I use for rhythm) and I figured the only way I could do it that tuning would be to buy a youth sized guitar lol, but if you say you have a string that can tune to A for a 25.5" guitar.... I'm very interested!! Please let me know if there is any way I can aquire a string that will suit my need for a high A4 note, thanks!


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## distressed_romeo (Feb 20, 2006)

Intriguing stuff, but two questions...

1) Is it actually possible to find amplification that can reproduce all these notes faithfully? I would expect this requires some sort of stereo output from the bass...

2) I've always thought that there's an ideal scale length for instruments of different range, and that trying to create an instrument with too wide a range invariably becomes a tonal compromise, and the bass notes sound muddy, and the high notes sound plinky (think of all the trouble most of us go through just getting a low A intonated on a normal guitar!).

Correct me if I'm wrong on either count.


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## Papa Shank (Feb 20, 2006)

distressed_romeo said:


> 2) I've always thought that there's an ideal scale length for instruments of different range, and that trying to create an instrument with too wide a range invariably becomes a tonal compromise, and the bass notes sound muddy, and the high notes sound plinky (think of all the trouble most of us go through just getting a low A intonated on a normal guitar!).
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong on either count.


There's a lot of give and take with having an instrument tonally superior throughout it's range. If you want to neglect playability then it's not a problem, you just have a really long bass scale and a short treble scale like a piano. The way I see it, if you really want a tonally superior extended range instrument you're either going to have to accept that you'll have to change to fit it to some degree or sacrifice some of that tonal excellence 

OR, take up piano 
Thing is nowadays there are so many other factors that mean you don't have to sacrifice playability for tone.


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## Garry Goodman (Feb 20, 2006)

bostjan said:


> That's cool, but notes as low as a bosendorfer piano (16 Hz or whatever) are mainly there for harmonic puposes (to drone out harmonics) since no one can hear the fundamental of 16Hz, but may be able to hear the harmonics at 32Hz, 48Hz, 64Hz, etc. By the time you get up into the clearly audible frequencies, the harmonics are rather faint, though. So an eight octave from 16Hz to 4.1kHz is a little silly.



That's interesting but while at NAMM in January,I stumbled on a booth featuring an pipe organ console ,several manuals and pedals,but it was really a controller.It used a sampled pipe organ libray-sampled at 196k.

It was monitored through a pair of Mackie 8" or so monitors.I asked the organist who was "demo-ing" the organ if it had a 32' stop. He said yes and played me C0(16Hz) on the lowest pedal note.It was clear. The builder and designer came over.I explained how guitar and bass guitar players have a notion one can't hear this note.They laughed and said "of course you can,that's why there is a 32' register.

I recorded a track using my Ader 11-string using a low C#0(17Hz) and when I mastered this track( international top 10 CD last year) at Paramount Mastering,Bill Dooley smiled as the note shook the room through his $8000 a pair Adams monitors.The pitch was audible.
These notes are clearly audible,but I have the string so I have B0(5-string bass low B) at the 11th fret.
You haven't heard my 12-string and there is nothing silly about it.Every note is crystal clear.The on board pre amp has out put fron 2hz-200Khz with no harmonic realignment. At 200 volts per second,every note is clear.
There is nothing silly about my G4 string either which allows notes to be played up to C8.The harmonics are not faint.



distressed_romeo said:


> Intriguing stuff, but two questions...
> 
> 1) Is it actually possible to find amplification that can reproduce all these notes faithfully? I would expect this requires some sort of stereo output from the bass...
> 
> ...



Hi.
The 12 string has been an ongoing project for years. Everything is custom made.The pick ups are Hi-Fi,the preamp is a state- of- the- art 200 volt per micro second which eliminates all phase shift in the audio band(20hz-20K) thus preserving the harmonic integrity and preventing harmonic realignment , slew distortion etc.
It is stereo,6 and 6 with a 20 db boost/cut and parametric sweeping the audio band.In short the sound of the instrument is breath-taking.

Several special full range speaker cabs have developed by Basson Sound with low end specs at about 18Hz . At winter NAMM 2005, the bass was tuned Bb00 up in 4ths. The low strings sounded with stunning clarity and the fundamentals crawled up your legs.

The 34"-32" scale allows for frets to be playable at the 24-36th frets.It has a minimal fan,so it almost seems like there is no fanned frets. My own .006,.005, and .003.5 plain steel strings work well tuned to G4 and Ab4 at the 32" scale. The bridge has a clamping system because they can't wind ball ends on .004 and .003 string wire yet.I spent 2 years on these strings,and now have a .007 E string(my D) that won't break at the 32" scale length(it never has broken at 25" ).

This bass /guitar is a proto-type,and I am working to create total volume and eq control over each individual string.



EverDream said:


> Is there anyway I could purchase some of those strings? Because I wanted to tune my 6 string guitar (25.5" scale) ADGcea so I bought a custom string set using D'Addario strings gauges .007 - .036 and when I stringed the guitar and I first went to tune the 1st string up to pitch it snapped somewhere shortly after F#, I guess the lbs. of break in the string was too low, I had a spare and now I have the guitar tuned to F tuning (1 half step higher than standard) I didn't want to do F# even though it tuned there fine because that's too close to the breaking point, lol. But I really would like to tune to A because I want to use my 6 string as mainly a lead guitar (I have a 7 string I use for rhythm) and I figured the only way I could do it that tuning would be to buy a youth sized guitar lol, but if you say you have a string that can tune to A for a 25.5" guitar.... I'm very interested!! Please let me know if there is any way I can aquire a string that will suit my need for a high A4 note, thanks!





EverDream said:


> Is there anyway I could purchase some of those strings? Because I wanted to tune my 6 string guitar (25.5" scale) ADGcea so I bought a custom string set using D'Addario strings gauges .007 - .036 and when I stringed the guitar and I first went to tune the 1st string up to pitch it snapped somewhere shortly after F#, I guess the lbs. of break in the string was too low, I had a spare and now I have the guitar tuned to F tuning (1 half step higher than standard) I didn't want to do F# even though it tuned there fine because that's too close to the breaking point, lol. But I really would like to tune to A because I want to use my 6 string as mainly a lead guitar (I have a 7 string I use for rhythm) and I figured the only way I could do it that tuning would be to buy a youth sized guitar lol, but if you say you have a string that can tune to A for a 25.5" guitar.... I'm very interested!! Please let me know if there is any way I can aquire a string that will suit my need for a high A4 note, thanks!




I am working on making these strings available.Getting them wound with ball ends is the main problem.I am working with a string company now to get the A440 string for electric guitar mass produced. I can send you a sample as soon as they are ready.



Papa Shank said:


> Just to add to this thread, Jean Baudin should be recieving a Naia 12 string instrument in the near future, it looks paticularly tasty.



Yes it looks nice-and a 7 octave range!


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## EverDream (Feb 20, 2006)

Garry Goodman said:


> I am working on making these strings available.Getting them wound with ball ends is the main problem.I am working with a string company now to get the A440 string for electric guitar mass produced. I can send you a sample as soon as they are ready.



Yes! I would like for that very much, just pm me or let me know here in this thread when you have that. On my 7 string guitar I play down in A tuning and so many times I wish I could add a lead part to my song with my 6 string that has a high 1760hz A6! That would be awesome! Thanks ahead of time


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## Shawn (Feb 21, 2006)

desertdweller said:


> http://www.myspace.com/stewmckinsey


Wow, that thing is monstrous. Pretty cool tunes too, this guy is great, I love this kind of stuff, it's soothing.


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## Shannon (Feb 21, 2006)

Welcome Garry!


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## guitarjitsumaster (Feb 21, 2006)

I think its awesome. The great thing about that C# is that besides sounding great when you play it you can break up kidney stones, create tsunamis in asia, beach whales and confuse bats at the same time lol. 

No seriously, Id die for a chance to get my hands on that 12 string. Now that youve made the ultimate instrument in all of existence, get to work on making us some killer guitars.


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## b3n (Feb 21, 2006)

Garry Goodman said:


> Hi. I just logged in for the first time, an what do you know?
> This reply may come a little late, but I think it is good to explain why 11 or 12-strings,since I introduced these things.


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## Garry Goodman (Feb 21, 2006)

Shawn said:


> Wow, that thing is monstrous. Pretty cool tunes too, this guy is great, I love this kind of stuff, it's soothing.



Sadly, Stew's 10-string died in hurricane Katrina.I loaned him my Adler 11-string while his new 10-string is being made.



Shannon said:


> Welcome Garry!



Thank You!



guitarjitsumaster said:


> I think its awesome. The great thing about that C# is that besides sounding great when you play it you can break up kidney stones, create tsunamis in asia, beach whales and confuse bats at the same time lol.
> 
> No seriously, Id die for a chance to get my hands on that 12 string. Now that youve made the ultimate instrument in all of existence, get to work on making us some killer guitars.



Well getting the right strings made has taken a number of years. They are still a work in progress. What really makes that bass playable is the neck that is less than 3/4" thick,yet you can stand on it and it won't budge.One of Mike Adler's best features.

 back at ya


b3n said:


>


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## The Dark Wolf (Feb 21, 2006)

That's cool. A 7-string BASS player. 

Greetings and salutations, dude.


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## Garry Goodman (Feb 22, 2006)

The Dark Wolf said:


> That's cool. A 7-string BASS player.
> 
> Greetings and salutations, dude.



Thank you!


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## Jesse (Feb 24, 2006)

hes on my friends list, hes cool.


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## Durero (Mar 2, 2006)

Yes Garry, let us know as soon as your special high strings are available - can't wait!


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## Mykie (Mar 2, 2006)

http://www.myspace.com/jeanbaudin
Check out Jean Baudin playing Super Mario on an 11 string bass.


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## noodles (Mar 2, 2006)

Garry Goodman said:


> But from my point of view,I have 435 fretboard positions.This.for instance gives me 8 locations for middle C4. Because my lowest open string is C0(around 16 Hz) I can cover the range of my 7-string bass between the 11th and 17th frets. My 12 has the same range as the Bosendorfer 97-note piano, so I play non-transposed piano music where it is written.Bach two part inventions,Joplin rags(have that Ab6 on "Maple Leaf"),real book tunes etc.Too play this music without having to drop something down an octave in order to hear it is a real treat. So it is the ultimate tapping instrument(tuned in 4ths,no repeared strings) with the largest amount of note locations and the widest range of any guitar now in existance.
> Range is very important because I can play those Slonimsky " Equal division of 7 octaves into 6 parts" melodic patterns so i can hear what they sound like.
> Could not "own" orchestral string and brass voicings without 12 strings, 8 0ctave.



You just bruised my brain.


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## eaeolian (Mar 2, 2006)

noodles said:


> You just bruised my brain.



Can I get a plus 1000 here? Put Garry and Ron Jarzombek in the same room and I think the Multiverse would implode...


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## Leon (Mar 2, 2006)

howdy, Garry!

that's a hell of a first post


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## Drew (Mar 2, 2006)

Garry Goodman said:


> stuff



You could have just said "because a neck that wide looks totally badass," lol. That's honestly about as deep as my reasons for wanting a bass with more than 6 strings on it go... 

Welcome aboard, man - anyone crazy enough to put that many strings on one neck is bound to be an interesting member.


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## Garry Goodman (Mar 4, 2006)

well thanks everyone,thanks for the posts!


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## Jauqo III-X (May 28, 2006)

Hello every one,it is kool to see that you Kat's seem sincerly interested in the world of ERB instruments(Basses & Guitars).well I don't want to side track the subject of the thread but here is a pic of guitarist DaLawn Simpson(he plays in various music projects with me)with his 9 string guitar.


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## bostjan (May 28, 2006)

Jauo III-X said:


> Hello every one,it is kool to see that you Kat's seem sincerly interested in the world of ERB instruments(Basses & Guitars).well I don't want to side track the subject of the thread but here is a pic of guitarist DaLawn Simpson(he plays in various music projects with me)with his 9 string guitar.



That guitar is bad-ass. From where did he get it? Got any sound clips?


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## Donnie (May 28, 2006)

bostjan said:


> From where did he get it?


 From Jesse at Ergo Instruments.
I thought those guitars would be pretty recognizable by now.


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## bostjan (May 28, 2006)

Hmm, I've seen half a dozen Ergo's, but never one like that. That one floats my boat, now if only the headstock was a mite thicker and the bridge pickup was angled a tad&#8230;


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## Shannon (May 28, 2006)

Jauo III-X said:


> Hello every one,it is kool to see that you Kat's seem sincerly interested in the world of ERB instruments(Basses & Guitars).well I don't want to side track the subject of the thread but here is a pic of guitarist DaLawn Simpson(he plays in various music projects with me)with his 9 string guitar.


Welcome!  

Man, that is a beautiful Ergo!


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## Garry Goodman (Jun 1, 2006)

He uses that guitar on Jauqo's CD, "The Low C# Theory".Jauqo pioneered the ,195 C# 17hz string.Granted,I am one of about 5 players using the string(not a big item),but Jauqo uses his sub bass tuned C#0-F#0-B0-E1 on the CD and DaLawn uses that guitar.It's like Crimson gone mad .Ernie Adams on drums(Dimeola's drummer).


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## Loomer (Jun 11, 2006)

Garry Goodman said:


> He uses that guitar on Jauqo's CD, "The Low C# Theory".Jauqo pioneered the ,195 C# 17hz string.Granted,I am one of about 5 players using the string(not a big item),but Jauqo uses his sub bass tuned C#0-F#0-B0-E1 on the CD and DaLawn uses that guitar.It's like Crimson gone mad .Ernie Adams on drums(Dimeola's drummer).



Where can I hear that stuff? Sounds really, really cool from the description!


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## Garry Goodman (Jun 12, 2006)

http://jauqoiii-x.com/

look for his page at cd baby or myspace


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## skattabrain (Jun 13, 2006)

that's sick.

anyone else find it weird how they place those insanely sweet guitars right on top of coarse, rough pavement?


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## Papa Shank (Jun 13, 2006)

It's odd for sure, I wouldn't mind knowing why they do that actually.


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## Luvuvibanez (Dec 26, 2006)

Shannon said:


> Interesting find. Speaking out interesting finds, here's another dude that he's linked to. Les Claypool better watch his back. This guy sings & plays some serious bass. http://www.myspace.com/sethhoran



Huh, another bassist named Seth. Cool.


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## OzzyC (Dec 26, 2006)

Luvuvibanez said:


> Huh, another bassist named Seth. Cool.



why the 6 month bump?


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## All_¥our_Bass (Dec 26, 2006)

Garry Goodman said:


> Range is very important because I can play those Slonimsky " Equal division of 7 octaves into 6 parts" melodic patterns so i can hear what they sound like.


 
How do you notate this and what does it sound like? Can you post some quick sheet music you made yourself?


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