# Recommend some relatively light bass cabs



## TedEH (Jun 22, 2017)

I had been considering it for a while, but given my recent accident with a bass cab crushing one of my toes, I think now is a good time to start more seriously looking into a smaller bass setup. What I currently have is a Traynor TC808. I do like the punch from it and it's super loud, but it doesn't do the room-shaking thing that an Ampeg cab does and it weighs a ton (~150lbs). I live on the second floor, and our jam room is on the third floor (of different buildings). Way too many stairs. A friend of mine has a 4x10 (I don't remember what brand) that weighs next to nothing, relatively speaking, which I think is because of the neo speakers in it. It sounds pretty good, but he doesn't use the same sort of sound as me, so it's hard to tell what it would be like with my own setup. I really like the sound of those Ampeg fridges, but I'm not expecting to get that sound out of something that isn't the size and weight of a truck. I'm hoping that maybe I can find a setup that's about the same quality and value as the 8x8 I have, so that it balances out rather than throwing more money at gear.

So, your recommendations! Some guidelines:
- I'd probably prefer a 4x10. Maybe two! Maybe a 4x10 and a 1x15?
- Ideally 4ohm to get the most of the power amp I've got (Crown XLS)
- I can run two 4ohm cabs with this amp (stereo) or a single 4ohm (bridged), so the "8 ohm means you can add cabs" doesn't necessarily apply here.
- Lightweight is the goal
- Wheels are a definite plus.


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## Mwoit (Jun 23, 2017)

I own a Barefaced Super Twin Gen 3 and it is super loud (takes 1000W RMS) and weighs 40 pounds. It's got wheels too. It's got 2x12 Neodymium (custom speakers) and it is great. It's quite neutral in tone, so if you've got a great head and pedals, it shines through. Might not sound the same as an Ampeg as it sounds rather hi-fi. It runs 4 ohms.

It does cost about $1149 and has to be shipped from the UK though.

http://barefacedbass.com/product-range/Super-Twin.htm


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## TedEH (Jun 23, 2017)

I've heard good things about those Barefaced cabs, but budget-wise it makes no sense for me. By the time I convert to CAD$ and have it shipped, it would cost an arm and a leg for something I don't need that badly. I think the 808 I have could probably be valued around $700-800 CAD, which doesn't give me a lot to work with in terms of sale/trade towards the new one.


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## budda (Jun 23, 2017)

You want anything with neo speakers. Our old bassist's Fender 810 weighed less than our Orange 412's


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## TedEH (Jun 23, 2017)

To be fair, those Orange cabs are super heavy though, aren't they?  I know the Mesa 4x12s I've dealt with are all > 100lbs. The Traynor bass cab I have is around 150lbs. If I could cut that down to closer to 50-60lbs I think I'd be happy with that. I think there's some lighter than that out there. Or maybe two cabs at ~50 each.


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## Radau (Jun 28, 2017)

Markbass and Bergantino are light as hell


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## TedEH (Jun 28, 2017)

Markbass sounds promising, but they're pretty expensive I think. I'll have to look into Bergantino.


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## iron blast (Jul 4, 2017)

Phil jones 12 b neo cab is 65lbs and louder then most 4x10 cabs rated to 25 hz. I'd say youll be hard pressed to beat it they are abit pricey though at around $1500 u.s.


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## TedEH (Jul 5, 2017)

iron blast said:


> at around $1500 u.s.


Yeah, that goes waaaaaaaay over what I intend to spend any time soon. Once you convert that to CAD, it's almost $2k, which is kind of ridiculous for just a cab, IMO.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 5, 2017)

I gig with a MarkBass Traveller 102p 2x10 paired with an Aguilar TH500 head, and I haven't had any problems with volume. It's also small enough that I can get my entire rig from a car to the stage in one trip (gig bag on my back, cab in one hand, bag w/ head and cables in the other).

They're 400w, available in 4 or 8 ohm, and only weigh 33lbs. I don't know what you consider expensive, but they're "only" $600 new.

It's worth noting that neither of my bands play metal, but if I did I'm sure just adding a second 2x10 would do the trick for extra volume. It'd also be easier to get two 2x10s up a flight of stairs than a 4x10, and you'd have the option of a smaller rig if you ever find yourself playing a smaller gig or something of the non-metal variety.

I don't know if you're looking for a specific SVT-sort of character, and if you are, it might not be for you. They don't really have much of a vintage character on their own, in my opinion, but I like my bass tones as cleeeeeean as possible as a foundation for pedals and tweaking, so that suits me just fine.


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## TedEH (Jul 6, 2017)

In terms of what I'd call 'expensive', up to 1000 is reasonable as long as the gear sounds good and is solid, getting to 1500 had better be an amazing cab, and anything over that really is overkill. I spent 900 or so on the one I have now, and it's lasted maybe 8 or 9 years, and still going.

I like the idea of just a 2x10 but I'd worry it won't move enough air to keep up with a metal drummer and two Mesa rigs. Also, the amp I'm using is one of those class-D PA amps with an Ampeg pre in front of it- supposedly puts out something like 1100 watts in bridged mode @ 4ohm, which I imagine I'd want to be careful with if it's too overpowered for the cab I'm using. That's not to say I need to crank the thing, and maybe I'd be surprised by what the little cab can do.


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## dax21 (Jul 6, 2017)

I don't have enough of experience with different cab brands or models to really chime in but I will confirm what the dude above me said to a degree - I regularly gig with an Ashdown 2x10 cab and have never had an issue with being heard or with cranking enough lows. The only drawback with a single 2x10 is that the cab itself is small in height, so when you crank it sufficiently to hear it enough when its directly next to you, it's usually too loud for stage volume and affects all the mics. I tend to put it on a small platform, when nothing else is available two empty plastic beer cases pulled together do the job just fine. This eradicates the problem.
Paired with an Eden head that is rated at 400w I have used this combo for plenty of shows where I didn't even go into the PA. There are two guitarists with Marshall half stacks in the band for reference.

Moral of the story - modern bass amps are pretty loud, no need for a fridge when your amp is a glorified monitor. Obviously you can't compare sonically two drivers to ten drivers, the fridge is gonna be way denser and pleasant to the ear but we are talking things that nobody in the audience hears at the end of the day.


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## TedEH (Jul 6, 2017)

Looks like I might have to try out a new cab sooner than later - normally we share a cab at the jam room, but the other band never brought it back after the last show. We have a new drummer auditioning today, but now there's no bass cab in the jam room. I have my own 8x8 at home, but it's not a great option to go get it, both because it's far away (it'll add up to 2hours driving through traffic to go get it) and because my toe is still broken which means even if I get there in time I can't carry a 150lbs cab down the stairs on my own, so that's not happening.

So if I can't convince the other band to bring the cab back before jam time, looks like I'll have to go rent a cab from the L&M near work so the new drummer doesn't think we don't know what we're doing, which will need to be either a 2x10 or a neo cab or something because I can't carry much. So, maybe this will be a chance to see what will/wont work, if I want to look at it as a positive.


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## Screamingdaisy (Jul 13, 2017)

Define "light"?

I have a Mesa PH 410 (vintage version), which at 90 lbs is pretty manageable for a 410.


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## TedEH (Jul 13, 2017)

Screamingdaisy said:


> Define "light"?


I did define light, in several posts. 
Aiming for 50-60lbs, which seems reasonable/common for neo-loaded 4x10s. The goal is to be able to carry it up and down stairs without assistance, which I don't think is reasonable to do with 90lbs. I manage it often enough with the 150+lbs cab I have now, but that's how I managed to injure my foot in the first place, despite how careful I've tried to be. I need something that isn't always a two person job.


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## bostjan (Jul 13, 2017)

For my guitar cab, I went with an Empty lightweight Seismic cab and loaded it with 2 12" Eminence NdFeB Patriot speakers. It's super-duper light, so I thought, maybe the same could be done for bass. The endeavor cost me next to nothing and it took five minutes to connect the speakers to the prewired cab.

The equivalent Seismic 4x10 cab weighs 40 pounds, though. I guess that's not going to work out the same way...but there is a cab maker who can build an open-back 410 cab that's lighter - Barefaced cabs.

The other thing I would recommend is considering two 210 cabs instead. More weight overall, but easier to manage, and there are more options available.

There are also a few manufacturers who make 310 bass cabs. They are designed to be lighter. My only concern would be matching impedance, but if you look into that as an option, you might be able to shave off 5-10 pounds of cab weight and then save the weight of the extra driver (another 5 pounds or so if NdFeB drivers are the plan).


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## TedEH (Jul 13, 2017)

I like the idea of 2x 210 cabs, but start worrying about volume. What about.... 4x 210s? Just keep stacking 2x10s until you get what you need/want.


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## Grand Moff Tim (Jul 14, 2017)

There are also 2x12 bass cabs. One alone would probably come close to suiting your needs, and two together would definitely suffice. I'd actually love to replace my 2x10 with a pair of Aguilar 1x12s, but Aguilar cabs are expensive as sh!t here in Korea.


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## bostjan (Jul 14, 2017)

I played with a bass player who had two single 12" cabs. They were super lightweight and respectably loud. I think the tone could really work in a rock/metal context. I always loved the "thwacky" tone I got out of a 410, but, honestly, a single 15" does seem to cut better in a full band mix in many situations, especially with bluesier/classic rock stuff. I had been coveting that huge SWR 18" bass cab since I first started on bass, but those are quite difficult to find.

2x 210's should be just as loud as a single 410, for most of the notes, but I think you have a valid concern with how the smaller cab might handle a low B. It would depend on the construction of the cab. In my experience, a lot of the cheaper 210 bass cabs don't really handle low notes spectacularly well.


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## TedEH (Jul 14, 2017)

I've always wondered why bass speakers usually end up being 10", when there's so many 12" speakers in other applications. I would think they would sell well, given the probably-not-true common belief that larger speakers equal more bass.


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## dax21 (Jul 14, 2017)

I gigged with a single 15 some years ago and... well, it's different. More scooped, more boomy but also more pleasant lows obviously, less highs. I didn't really like it. Also never liked any dirt through a 15 unless you are going for that super stonerish fuzzy tone. It comes down to a matter of simple physics, 15" speaker cone is way heavier and bigger than that of a 10". Meaning that it requires more power to start moving, but at the same time it also takes more time/momentum to stop moving, to put it simple. Which is why 10s have more punch and are generally snappier. 12" are just inbetween, sort of a jack of all trades master of none though they are not that uncommon, markbass makes some cabs with 12s I think, out of more popular brands. If you go with 12s you are already sacrificing small cab size and might as well get a 4x10 over 2x12 as it will sound way denser. Just saying.


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## bostjan (Jul 14, 2017)

I'll use an analogy between speakers and acoustic instruments.

You have a speaker, you have a cab - ... - uhn "speaker cab"

The speaker is like the string, and the cab is like the body. You can take a ukulele and string it up with rubber hoses and make a bass ukulele. ...and a bass ukulele can sound decent plugged in. ...but it sounds terrible acoustically, because the body is not long enough to resonate at the frequencies the strings are creating. This is also why a double bass has such a huge body and sounds great playing low notes. Acoustic bass guitars sound okay, but lack the full sound of the double bass. It's a matter of having enough air moving in the resonant chamber and getting that moving air to release in a controlled way.

Speaker cabs obey the same laws of physics. A smaller cab, generally, won't have the same bass response as a bigger cab, all else being equal. Using a bigger driver is like using a heftier string. Smaller drivers usually are not as efficient at producing lower frequencies as larger drivers, just like how you can get a low B on your guitar with a .042", but it introduces quite a few concerns. Using a .060" works better, just like how a 12" speaker will generally work better than a 10" speaker at generating lower frequencies, all else being equal.

A 410 cab might have a large volume of air to move. A similarly constructed 210 cab might be about half the size. Even with the same drivers, there will be a "cutoff" frequency difference in resonance.

I mean, ultimately, any cab will "work," depending on your needs. I've seen more than a few bass players use 412 guitar cabs. If you load a bassy oversized MESA cab with 12" bass drivers, and throw in a little 4" tweeter (if that's your thing), in theory, you have a pretty great bass cab.

Acoustics is a fairly complex field, but, as with most fairly complex fields of study, people with experience tend to get a good intuition for figuring out solutions, so most of the advice you hear on drivers and cabinets are mostly true with a portion of "interpretation," including (read: "especially") my posts.


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## Screamingdaisy (Jul 15, 2017)

TedEH said:


> I did define light, in several posts.
> Aiming for 50-60lbs, which seems reasonable/common for neo-loaded 4x10s. The goal is to be able to carry it up and down stairs without assistance, which I don't think is reasonable to do with 90lbs. I manage it often enough with the 150+lbs cab I have now, but that's how I managed to injure my foot in the first place, despite how careful I've tried to be. I need something that isn't always a two person job.



I carry 90 lbs up and down stairs by myself. Grab with one hand and go. Helps that the Mesa 410s are more portable than the Ampeg 410HLFs... I don't think I could manage one of those by myself just due to the size/shape. I know not everyone can one can one hand a 90lb cab, but if you're already managing 150+ then a relatively compact 90 might be more doable than you think.

Anyway... for smaller gigs I use a pair of Mesa Subway cabs (115/112, 38 lbs and 33 lbs respectively). The 15 fills the room and has a smooth midrange on it's own, and the 12 adds a more aggressive mid and punch but doesn't "fill the room" the way the 15 does. They compliment each other really well. The mini-rig is actually louder than my 410 (8ohm) because the two cabs drop me down to 4ohm, so I get full power out of my head (and more midrange than the 410).

Mesa makes a 210 (43lbs). I haven't personally tried it and can't comment on how it sounds. One thing to consider is that Mesa voices their 210s to compliment a 115, so the 210 has less low end so the two cabs play nice together. End result is that two 210s will have less low end than a single 410. I don't know if other companies do the same, but it's worth keeping in mind.



TedEH said:


> I've always wondered why bass speakers usually end up being 10", when there's so many 12" speakers in other applications. I would think they would sell well, given the probably-not-true common belief that larger speakers equal more bass.



IMO, it's the mids. 10s are naturally kind of scooped and sit in a rock mix better. 12s push a lot more midrange, and I think they sound better with distortion, but for cleaner bass tones I find myself having to EQ a lot of mids out at the amp so that I don't interfere with the clarity of the guitars.

I like the 115/112 mini rig a lot, but I kind of wish I had either a 210/115 or 210/210.

FWIW/YMMV.


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## TedEH (Jul 17, 2017)

Screamingdaisy said:


> if you're already managing 150+ then a relatively compact 90 might be more doable than you think


It might be. I know once or twice I've just said f- it and carried the 150lb beast down the stairs in one shot, but it's a huge risk, and it's not easy. Usually I make it work by going one step at a time- takes forever but I don't feel like I'm going to kill myself in the process.

A friend of mine has a neo 410, and it's suuuuuper easy to move around, which is why I was thinking of something similar. I'm sure I coooooould handle 90, but the less I need to worry about the better.


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## TedEH (Jul 17, 2017)

I came across an ad today for a GK neo 410 - it's 800w/4ohm/68lbs, and he's asking only 400 for it. Gonna take a look at it tomorrow but this could work for me I think. Worst case I can try it out for a while and just sell whichever cab I end up not using. 

Anyone tried these and have an opinion of them?


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## TedEH (Jul 18, 2017)

So I grabbed that GK cab and brought it to the jam room. The good news is that I can get it up the stairs with less effort than the other cab. The bad news is that- and I appreciate the irony- I managed to kick the bottom of a step while carrying this thing and ripped off the half dead toenail from the toe I broke with the last cab. Lesson learned: I'm a moron and can't move bass gear without injuring myself.

That being said- first impression is that it's easily loud enough but it's suuuuuuper bright and seems to be more sensitive to dynamic playing than my last cab. It'll need some time re-dialing in the amp in band context to really see. Also, I read in some places that it was "boomy" sounding- but if they meant that to say the low end was too much, I very much disagree so far. I was only playing alone in a terrible room, but I almost wanted to crank the bass rather than cut it. It's voiced super different than my traynor cab so I almost want to keep both for the different flavours.


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## Mwoit (Jul 19, 2017)

I'd say redial everything for the cab setup and try and see how it sounds in a band context. Can you A/B the cabs during rehearsal?


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## TedEH (Jul 19, 2017)

Mwoit said:


> Can you A/B the cabs during rehearsal?


In theory yes.... I have the 808 and the 410 next to eachother in the same room right now, but we're short a drummer, so unless I get someone else to drum for me, or get them to a/b for me while I play drums, it might be a while before I get to try this in a realistic context. We were supposed to have a drummer audition today, but he's flaked on us I think.

Edit: I've also been using the same cab for long enough that pretty much any new cab is going to feel like a drastic change, I think. I've had that tc808 for.... 8 years?


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## Screamingdaisy (Jul 20, 2017)

TedEH said:


> That being said- first impression is that it's easily loud enough but it's suuuuuuper bright



That was my impression with GK too. Bright/aggressive. I haven't played many... tried a couple in the store, plugged into an Ampeg, realized that was the sound and haven't touched one since.


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## TedEH (Jul 20, 2017)

I got a chance to sort of a/b the cabs I've got yesterday. I could play them at jam volume, just didn't have the rest of the band to see how everything fits. The cab is definitely really bright, but it kind of works for me- I play clean with a Jazz bass. Lots of slapping nonsense sometimes. With the old cab, I had the highs cranked on my amp, in addition to a bright switch that was always on. With the new cab, I turn the bright switch off, and it's still a bit brighter than with the old cab, but maybe that's a good thing. It's super present in the room. The old cab is more sort of "scoopy" sounding, and a lot more forgiving. I guess a good way to describe it is that they're focused differently. The Traynor is lots of low-mid focus (sort of like it's trying to sound "bassy"), and the GK is more hi-mid or just hi- focused (like it's trying to sound "clear").


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## Screamingdaisy (Jul 20, 2017)

The only way to know is to try it with your band. Seems like the worse something sounds solo'd the better it works in a mix, and vice versa.


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## TedEH (Jul 20, 2017)

Screamingdaisy said:


> Seems like the worse something sounds solo'd the better it works in a mix, and vice versa.



To a point


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