# Jazz improv



## seven skrang (Jun 11, 2005)

can anyone show me some improv techniques particularly arpeggios?


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## Drew (Jun 12, 2005)

That's a pretty broad question, don't you think? 

I don't play much jazz these days, but tell me where you are, musically, and what you're trying to do, and I'll try to fill in a few missing links.


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## seven skrang (Jun 12, 2005)

well i know scales and modes, im know some theory. im trying to know how to solo off of chords and what not


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## theunforgiven246 (Jun 13, 2005)

well you can play a specific scale to a chord like play an ionan on top a maj7 or aolien on top of the m7 and a mixolydian ontop of a 7. thats basicly it but i just fuck around the key the song is in and it usually works.


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## wolfsd (Jun 14, 2005)

Get yourself a couple of books on music theory. There is a book in the guitar grimoire series.....progressions and improvisation (I think it's titled something like that) you may find useful, in fact, all of the books in the series are pretty good....

steve


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## jim777 (Jun 14, 2005)

Spend 30 bucks on Jak Zucker's book, it's simply the best there is, and so worth the money it's laugh out loud funny.
http://www.sheetsofsound.net/

jim


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## Drew (Jun 14, 2005)

Interesting, Jim. 

Also mandatory if you want to play Jazz - "The Real Book, Volume I." when someone talks about a fake book, they mean this. Everything you need to know about soloing over changes can be learned by sitting down with one of these and working out arpeggios of the chords in the standards transcribed within. 

-D


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## seven skrang (Jun 14, 2005)

Drew said:


> Interesting, Jim.
> 
> Also mandatory if you want to play Jazz - "The Real Book, Volume I." when someone talks about a fake book, they mean this. Everything you need to know about soloing over changes can be learned by sitting down with one of these and working out arpeggios of the chords in the standards transcribed within.
> 
> -D


thats weird, i have that one


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## Metal Ken (Jun 14, 2005)

Work through that thing, Then you'll be a god.


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## Drew (Jun 14, 2005)

Yeah. If you know even the BASICS of chord theory and your stock modal scales, you should be able to come up with everything you need to know to play over anything. 

I suck at playing changes, but that's just lack of practice, the theoretical side really isn't that tricky.


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## Drew (Jun 14, 2005)

I mean, I don't know how to explain this any easier, but if you have to play over an Em9, then any Em9 chord tones will work - the root, m3, 5, m7, and 9 are all in play (respectively E, G, B, D, and F#). Say you're going back and forth between Em9 and C11 - switch from those chord tones to lines focusing on C, E, G, Bb, D, and F (root, 3, 5, b7, 9, 11) and you're good to go. Once this begins to get comfortable, you can start adding tones from extentions of these - suggest 11ths 13ths, and whatnot, as your ear begins to get comfortable with adding tension. 

(a cautionary word - this is how to get comfortable playing "inside" and serious jazz guys think that's boring as fuck. Still, you gotta build the vocab before you can step out)

Find a head you like in your fake book, sit down, and once you're comfortable comping it, start going through and playing lines in straight 8ths with JUST chord tones, a nonstop stream of 8th note arpeggios, improvising. Don't worry about phrasing or anything, just force yourself to keep playing. Once you can do this in your sleep all over the neck, start adding outside tones, scale tones, varying the phrasing, and just go to town. 

If you've got volume II, I've always been partial to Gershwin's "Summertime," Carmichael's "Georgia," and Waldron's "All Alone."

-D


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## Vince (Jun 17, 2005)

Drew said:


> I mean, I don't know how to explain this any easier, but if you have to play over an Em9, then any Em9 chord tones will work - the root, m3, 5, m7, and 9 are all in play (respectively E, G, B, D, and F#). Say you're going back and forth between Em9 and C11 - switch from those chord tones to lines focusing on C, E, G, Bb, D, and F (root, 3, 5, b7, 9, 11) and you're good to go. Once this begins to get comfortable, you can start adding tones from extentions of these - suggest 11ths 13ths, and whatnot, as your ear begins to get comfortable with adding tension.
> 
> (a cautionary word - this is how to get comfortable playing "inside" and serious jazz guys think that's boring as fuck. Still, you gotta build the vocab before you can step out)
> 
> ...



I proclaim this statement true. Excellent post, Drew.


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## Drew (Jun 17, 2005)

Is it metal to talk about jazz? 

*ponders* 

*head explodes*


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## dpm (Jun 17, 2005)

I proclaim Jazz supreme and administer Naked City.
pfffff *flex*

Sorry, I'm late to the party


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## Vince (Jun 17, 2005)

dpmasunder said:


> I proclaim Jazz supreme and administer Naked City.
> pfffff *flex*
> 
> Sorry, I'm late to the party



Agreed. Administering Stanley Jordan "Live in New York."

He makes "Somewhere over the Rainbow" cool.


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## telecaster90 (Jun 17, 2005)

*administers Miles Davis*

Miles Davis is supreme.


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## The Dark Wolf (Jun 17, 2005)

desertdweller said:


> Agreed. Administering Stanley Jordan "Live in New York."
> 
> He makes "Somewhere over the Rainbow" cool.



Stanley Jordan. Like Whoa.


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## dpm (Jun 17, 2005)

+1 Miles and Stanley, administers 'Trane


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## seven skrang (Jun 17, 2005)

screw not being metal 
be individual as possible and thanks for the help guhys much appreciated


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## kman (Jun 17, 2005)

Anyone here like Chick Corea? He was just in Pittsburgh. He is one of my favorite jazz musicians, hes fricken awesome.


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## Matt (Jun 18, 2005)

kman said:


> Anyone here like Chick Corea? He was just in Pittsburgh. He is one of my favorite jazz musicians, hes fricken awesome.



+1

Some dudes I know performed one of his songs the other day and I was blown away. It was awesome. er, I mean supreme


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## wolfsd (Jun 18, 2005)

I now administer Allan Holdsworth, King Crimson and Frank Zappa *FLEX*


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## Drew (Jun 19, 2005)

The Dark Wolf said:


> Stanley Jordan. Like Whoa.



Agreed. He's one of those guys where it's almost impossible to get more articulate than that, while talking about him. 

Haven't broken out Kind of Blue in a while, today might be a good Davis day...


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## The Dark Wolf (Jun 19, 2005)

Drew said:


> Agreed. He's one of those guys where it's almost impossible to get more articulate than that, while talking about him.
> 
> Haven't broken out Kind of Blue in a while, today might be a good Davis day...



Excellent choice. Miles was really more (later on) experimental in his approach. Like a jazz Zappa. But like Zappa, consumate musicianship.

I really like how modern jazz tends to be more roots-centered, with small ensembles, traditional arrangements, and the club feel. Listen to "Jazz After Hours" on NPR, weekend evenings, with Jim Wilke, for some great new and classic jazz tunes. This is a good indication of some of the jazz you'll hear in the clubs.

Hey D, I bet Boston has some GREAT jazz clubs, eh? We happen to have a world class jazz place here in Toledo- Rusty's Jazz Cafe.


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## Drew (Jun 20, 2005)

You know, we must, Bob... But I haven't found them yet. I should be shot. 

I also don't have a radio, so no NPR... but in my defense, that'd be one of the things I'd listen to had I - NPR is just one of those dorky-yet-kinda-cool guilty pleasures.


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## Metal Ken (Jun 20, 2005)

Drew said:


> Is it metal to talk about jazz?
> 
> *ponders*
> 
> *head explodes*



Yes. Jazz is brutal. Free jazz is supreme. 
Ornett Coleman is a god.


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## Shawn (Jun 20, 2005)

Wes Montgomery and Coltrane are good too. Herbie Hancock did some cool stuff in the 60's.....


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## jim777 (Jun 21, 2005)

Jimmy Bruno is a current player with awesome chops. Stanley Jordan I remember sitting on the ground outside the Orange Julius on 48th St. That's where he was when Al Di "discovered" him. The first time I heard Stanley play I put a single in his guitar case! ;-) Jazz....I love me some jazz. Ella Sings the Songbooks, Wes Montgomery CD's, Charlie Parker going off the deep end.... just fantastic stuff. My wife hates it though, so I mostly listen in the car! lol


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## terrorsound (Jun 24, 2005)

I learned improv from an alan holdsworth video and an old timer jazz band I used to play with, we did high class swing dance gigs in chicago. The guitar player played like joe pass, an old italian guy named Angelo, he was friggin ancient but he was the shit!!  

my improv jazz is simple, based on triad chords, octave hops and diminished chromatic patterns for solos. I like to keep it simple because the technique is murder, alot of the faster old style playing 'fast ragtime' was really based on full and partial single string chromatic runs, and 'inverted step scales' this is what the old man called them and on top of that the time signatures were crammed with double stops. The old man was shocked a young punk dug that style. Man I loved playing fast tunes like that.. 
RIP Angelo... ​


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