# Bogner Ecstasy controls and info



## ChrisPcritter (Nov 7, 2007)

I bias amps and do minor repairs and testing on amps 
so I've gotten to try out a lot of amps. I had someone 
ask me about the bogner so I spent quite a while getting 
my thoughts together and figured I'd post it. The manual is 
hard to understand especially after a few beers and you need 
to know how the controls work to get a great sound. For 
example if the structure switch is set to low, it won't have 
much gain in the rhythm and lead channels.. 

I would classify this amp as a hot rodded Fender Tweed meets 
a hot rodded Marshall. I got the 101b which has EL 34s 
The 101a has 6L6s. The one I heard and played through 
sounded awesome and I didnt want to take any chances 
even though I have always liked 6l6 amps better (til now)

I went to a not so local shop and asked some help since I 
didnt have much time and the guy pretty much just tried to 
BS me and didnt know the correct answers so he just made 
stuff up. When I got home I called bogner and they explained 
it to me. I wish I would have known how it worked before I 
went to check it out. Its like paying to go on a vacation to 
France but not learning French first, dumb move on my part. 

Channel 1 the clean channel. 
Controls: Volume, Treble Mid and Bass, Gain
Gain Boost switch also controlled by the footswitch (when set to L)
Pre EQ switch has 3 brightness modes B1, N, B2
N is normal B1 is brighter and B2 even brighter 
I find B2 useful when playing a strat with singles 
into the low input...Great tone..
The higher the gain control is set the less the Pre 
EQ effects the sound

Channels 2 and 3
Channels two and three share treble mid bass 
Ch3 Volume, Ch2 Volume, Treble, Mid, Bass, Ch3 Gain, Ch2 Gain
Switches Plexi mode, Ch2, Off, Ch3 You can pick which channel you want to sound like a plexi
Structure L, H on L or Low, the gain on both channels is less
Gain Boost for both Channels 2 and 3 (Footswitch controlled if set to L)
Pre Eq Ch3 B1, N, B2 
Pre Eq Ch2 B1, N, B2 

If the boost switch is set to high then it bypasses the footswitch 
Standby on the footswitch is not an amp standby, it just turns off 
the inputs.

This is the hard part to explain
Excursion A and B 
There is a Switch that allows you to set the channel you want to 
use for Excursion and Presence B. Channel 1 or Channel 3
Channel 2 is always on excursion and presence A. 
The excursion switch controls the type of Lows the power amp puts out. 
Medium, Loose, or Tight. 
So if you have switch B set to channel 1 then the excursion and presence 
controls for channel B work for channel 1 only.
Excursion and presence A would then control channel two and three.

I like more mids and less highs on my Rhythm and clean channels so I 
leave them on Excursion and Presence A. 
Excursion B control switch is set to channel 3. I set the presence knob for 
B at about 3 oclock and the excursion switch for B on T for tight low end. 

Which means that channels 1 and 2 are both using excursion switch and 
presence control A. Presence is set straight up at 12 oclock and the 
excursion switch to M for a medium amount of low end 
Throw in the fact that each channel has the Pre EQ (brightness control) and 
this is a pretty versatile amp. Steve Vai Used to use one on Passion and 
Warfare I think which was just before Carvin signed him up for the 
Legacy amps. Rascal Flats uses them now. 

Master Volume is on the back and only controls the signal from the 
effects loop. It allows you to adjust the volume after the effects to keep it 
the same as without the loop turned on.


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## Drew (Nov 7, 2007)

It's actually the Alien Love Secrets album you're thinking of, which also has Vai's best recorded tone to date on it.


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## ChrisPcritter (Nov 7, 2007)

Drew said:


> It's actually the Alien Love Secrets album you're thinking of, which also has Vai's best recorded tone to date on it.



Thanks.. I couldn't remember for sure.. 
I went to a guys house to bias his amps Ultralead/Ubershall/Ecstasy and when I heard the ecstasy for a few minutes, I just looked at him and said thanks... You just cost me a lot of money...
His Ultralead was an older one and didn't sound anything like the newer ones with the KT88's and EQ's. I wasn't impressed. Then I got to play a new one and it was excellent.


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## starsnuffer (Nov 7, 2007)

If you're a fan of 6L6 amps, check out some KT77's in a 101B. That's what I've been running in my XTC for about 9 months now. It's the best of both worlds (tubes).

There's a great primer out on the web for how to "test out" an XTC, but it seems you already found your way around the amp. Someone also posted this on the HCAF forums this morning. Since you seem a fan of fender amps, you might dig it:

_With regards to the Ecstasy's Clean channel for those trying tweak a good clean from the amp, from the Bogner Forum:

I've been displeased with the XTC clean channel and just endured it for the most part all of these years. I've dissected the blue and red channels down to each grid, plate and cathode but never took the time to look into the green channel. Today I got my multimeter out, pulled the chassis on the XTC and went to work. I have the XTC schematic so I was able to follow along.

The XTC's clean preamp is a Fender Super Reverb/Deluxe Reverb clone. If anyone has played a good Fender blackface like a Super Reverb or Deluxe Reverb you know that the normal channel does not have a mid and presence control and the XTC has both mid and presences. Lets start with the mid control.

The XTC clean uses a 25k linear mid pot and the Fenders use a FIXED setting of 6.8k for the mids, no pot just a 6.8k resistor. So you have no control over the mids, its stuck on 6.8k. So where is 6.8k on the mid pot you say? I took a reading on the mid pot and the magic setting of 6.8k is around 10 o'clock on the XTC's mid control. For what its worth a Twin Reverb does have a mid control and its a 10k Audio pot.

Another component to the coveted Fender clean tone is the bright switch. The bright switch on a Fender is a 120pf which boost the extreme highs, the higher the value the more you start boosting the mids . On the XTC you have 3 choices B1=100pf, N=OFF, B2=220pf. 100pf is a lot closer to 120pf than 220pf so obviously you want to choose either B1 or N for the Fender tone. You will not hear the difference between 20pf's.

Presence control or lack there of on a Fender is easy on the XTC. Assign the presence B to the green channel and turn it completely off or down......thats it. Its as if its not there and take it out of the circuit.

Most people know this but its worth repeating. On a Fender there is NO master volume just a volume. Set the volume on the XTC to max and now your Gain control becomes your volume. This gives you the absolute best and complete mix of the pre and power amp.

Excursion setting. There isn't any type of bass boost in a Fender pwr amp so set the XTC to Tight which is OFF.

So a quick recap:
Mid control 10 O'clock (6.8k)
Bright switch either B1 or N
Presence turned all the way down or off
Volume maxed and use the gain for adjusting volume
Excursion set to Tight

Thats it! With these settings you can adjust the treble, bass and volume (gain control actually) to taste and you'll be in Fender heaven! The only thing missing is the Fender power amp and open back cabinet with Jensen Alnico speakers for the perfect Fender clean but that would really mess up the Marshally sounding lead channels._

-W


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## guitarplayerone (Nov 7, 2007)

is it MIDI- switchable?


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## starsnuffer (Nov 7, 2007)

guitarplayerone said:


> is it MIDI- switchable?



Not stock, no, but I use an RJM amp-gizmo with mine, which gives it full midi capability.

-W


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## ChrisPcritter (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm gonna have to read that a few times.. I have the KT77's in my Rivera.. They are super hot so I don't know if I can even try them in the bogner. When they came into eurotubes, the first batch were way too high current and I got some from bob since my rivera can handle EL34's or 6L6's....Chris


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## starsnuffer (Nov 7, 2007)

Any amp that uses either EL34's or 6l6's should be able to run KT77s. You do have to rebias the amp, of course, just as you would when installing any powertubes.

There are some exceptions. Some old fenders and other amps do not have strong enough grid resistors to handle the current of the KT77s. They run fine in my 101B. 

-W


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## guitarplayerone (Nov 8, 2007)

starsnuffer said:


> Not stock, no, but I use an RJM amp-gizmo with mine, which gives it full midi capability.
> 
> -W



when you say amp-gizmo and full midicapability, do you mean the same way, lets say a Diezel Herbert is midi-capable? what gizmo is this and how does it work?

and btw isnt there something on the bogner site that voids the warranty if you use differnet tubes than what it came with?

would suck to void that warranty.


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## technomancer (Nov 8, 2007)

Google is your friend:

RJM Music Technology, Inc. - Electronic Products for Guitar Players


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## guitarplayerone (Nov 8, 2007)

i am still confused as to how this all works...

i was reading a manual somewhere that says that the bogner footswitch itself can be plugged into a midi system somehow

i just dont get how this thing midi-controls everything.... arent all the knobs, etc resistors? so how would you change your gain setting with this midi thing, when there is no way to change the setting in the amp?

i think that what i'm really asking for is

a) should I specifically be looking for a MIDI- controlled amp?
b) is it harder to set up a non-native midi-controlled amp to work with a midi footswitch, say if i intend to use G system (which I eventually do)
c) how does this switch work? for example I know that a Herbert has a MIDI chip inside of it, and it essentially changes all of the knob parameters with it. but a non- midi amp will have analog knobs, no?

essentially the n00b 'i wanna pimp midi-rig' walkthrough


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## starsnuffer (Nov 9, 2007)

Um, there's only a handful of amps that actually change the knobs via midi, and Deizel don't make any of them.

Soldano X99 and Caswell come to mind. There's also a few hybrids such as the hughes and kettner switchblade and line 6 spider valve, but neither of those two are true tube amps.

Most "midi capable" amps use midi to switch relays in exactly the same way as you could with a footswitch. Changing channels, engaging the FX loop, activating a boost, and such.

The XTC has 7 switches on the footswitch, for instance. With the amp gizmo, you just plug it in to the same socket you would normally connect the footswitch to, and then you can use midi CC or PC messages to activate all 7 of those relays (channels 1-3, boost 1 and boost 2, standby, fx loop).

There are multiple ways you could use the g-system to control the amp gizmo, depending on if you wanted to go a straight program change route, or to use individual CC messages (stompbox mode).

With program changes, the amp gizmo is incredibly simple. Simply set it to the same midi channel as the g-system (defaults to 1 I think), activate a patch on the g-system by stepping on the button, then press the corresponding buttons on the amp gizmo for channel and whatever other feature you want (loop, boost, ext), then hold the red store button for a few seconds. Viola, patch is saved, now every time you activate that patch on the g-system, the amp automatically switches to the correct channel with the correct boost or whatever.

Midi is really simple once you read a bit about it.

-W


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