# Ibanez Universe vs Ibanez J-Custom 8427 vs Blackmachine B7



## Meshugger (Jul 7, 2010)

Hiya guys!

I currently saving up money for the next year or two in order to buy a really nice 7. After some inspection, i have narrowed it down to three guitars. Do not suggest Strictly 7, Oni, Bernie Rico, KxK, Sherman, Schecter, BC Rich, Agile (already have one), Carvin, or any other since i have checked them and they do not appeal to me aesthetically  If we scratch availability and price and only focus on sound, feel and style (shredding, riffing, leads) what do you guys think of the following ones?

Ibanez UV777PBK (easiest to get)






Ibanez J-Custom 8427BX (quite difficult to get a hold of, but possible with a bit of patience)





Blackmachine B7 (Practically a 2 year wait, even if you want one now. At least i should have the money by then)





Thanks again!


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jul 7, 2010)

I think its silly to have a Blackmachine in the same list  You can buy the other 2 at anytime, so i would have to go with one of those as opposed to waiting till your old and grey to get the other one.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 7, 2010)

7 Strings of Hate said:


> I think its silly to have a Blackmachine in the same list  You can buy the other 2 at anytime, so i would have to go with one of those as opposed to waiting till your old and grey to get the other one.





As much as I love UV's, if you have the cash, go for the J-Custom.


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## technomancer (Jul 7, 2010)

Out of that list the J-Custom since you flat out can't order the B7 and the newer Universes are just completely unimpressive.


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## PetrucciVai (Jul 7, 2010)

Def. J-Custom.


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## vampiregenocide (Jul 7, 2010)

Probably J custom, its going to be higher quality than the Universe, and easier to get than the B7.


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## jymellis (Jul 7, 2010)

j custom or an OLDER UV.


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## Meshugger (Jul 7, 2010)

I'll keep my eyes out for a J-Custom for the moment, it seems  

When you guys are talking about older universes, how old do you guys mean? 1990-?


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## 7 Strings of Hate (Jul 7, 2010)

jymellis said:


> j custom or an OLDER UV.



Yea, older uv's arnt rape on the price and are better quality. Maybe not better quality, but definatly more mojo


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 7, 2010)

Meshugger said:


> I'll keep my eyes out for a J-Custom for the moment, it seems
> 
> When you guys are talking about older universes, how old do you guys mean? 1990-?



Any Universe made between 90' and 97'.


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## 777 (Jul 7, 2010)

J-custom


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## Sebastian (Jul 7, 2010)

That J-Custom looks great !!!


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## leonardo7 (Jul 7, 2010)

I have an Ibanez Custom Apex 1 which is made to the same quality standards as a new UV and I also have the 8527Z which I bought from Meestursparkle on ebay. By the way, every month or so he has a new one up for sale for nearly $3000. Since basically nobody has played a Blackmachine its going to be hard to get that opinion. My apex plays amazingly but the j custom just says class class class all over it man. If youve got money now for the J Custom and will have money in two years for the Blackmachine then get both. Why not? But will you really have the money in 2 years? You could sell the J Custom to pay some of it right?


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## Meshugger (Jul 7, 2010)

^Thanks, i'll check with the meestursparkle guy every now and then.

It seems like there are a couple J-Custom 8427's at IbanezRules.com, but it seems like that model is being discontinued, so there's a high possibility that when i managed to get the money, the price has either gone way up, or that no one is then selling it. 

*Sigh* But these things should never be easy, should they?


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## Xiphos68 (Jul 7, 2010)

vampiregenocide said:


> Probably J custom, its going to be higher quality than the Universe, and easier to get than the B7.


Curious? In what way besides that fancy fretboard and quilt or flame tops?

Are the necks any different?


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 7, 2010)

Xiphos68 said:


> Curious? In what way besides that fancy fretboard and quilt or flame tops?
> 
> Are the necks any different?



Fretwork.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 7, 2010)

I'm curious as to why you don't like the aesthetics of BRJ or KxK? I mean, they're custom shops...they build what you want. I was previously in the "I don't like the look of the BRJ's" camp, but their recent super strats are looking mighty sexy. The 727 slim jsousa got is fucking sexy as hell. The only thing I would change would be the headstock, take out that curve where the tuners are, but for a guitar that sexy and high end, I could live with it.

Also, these are my 2 KxK's:











The second one is damn near finished. If he can make the first one, I'm sure he could make you anything you wanted.

Also, I really can't understand why you don't like the Sii-7 as it's basically a sharp super strat like the Ibby. By the time you pay for the J-Custom, import it, and pay all those fees, you will have basically spent the same most likely, unless you find one state side used.

I'm not saying get KxK or BRJ, just that I'm confused about your hate for them


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## QuambaFu (Jul 7, 2010)

I vote J-Custom! You'll need more patience if you go with the B7.

RG8527Z | Ibanez guitars


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## Voodoo Turkey (Jul 7, 2010)

As much as I love my UV777, out of the three I'd go for the J. Custom


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## poopyalligator (Jul 7, 2010)

I would go for the j custom if you have the cash.

On a sidenote that new kxk that jj has looks like it is going to be badass


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## Meshugger (Jul 7, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> I'm curious as to why you don't like the aesthetics of BRJ or KxK? I mean, they're custom shops...they build what you want. I was previously in the "I don't like the look of the BRJ's" camp, but their recent super strats are looking mighty sexy. The 727 slim jsousa got is fucking sexy as hell. The only thing I would change would be the headstock, take out that curve where the tuners are, but for a guitar that sexy and high end, I could live with it.
> 
> Also, these are my 2 KxK's:
> 
> ...



While i think that BRJs are almost _too_ pointy, that bottom one from KxK might change my mind. Thanks!


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## Bungle (Jul 7, 2010)

I'd vote J-Custom.


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## technomancer (Jul 7, 2010)

Meshugger said:


> While i think that BRJs are almost _too_ pointy, that bottom one from KxK might change my mind. Thanks!



JJ: that thing is looking fantastic, you need to post up some pics of that over here 

Meshugger: That's the standard Sii-7 shape... there are a ton more pics of ones with various options here:

Sii7 7 string


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## JJ Rodriguez (Jul 7, 2010)

And if you don't like carved tops, and want just an arm contour like an Ibby, you can get that too. That's the point of a CS, get what you want.

Also, the first one isn't a BRJ, it's a KxK as well.


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## Furtive Glance (Jul 7, 2010)

QuambaFu said:


> I vote J-Custom! You'll need a good pension if you go with the B7.
> 
> RG8527Z | Ibanez guitars



*fixed


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## VacantPlanet (Jul 7, 2010)

Have you considered the John Petrucci Music Man BFR 7? Killer machine and I may be wrong but it's around the price of the other 3. Although, I'm not too keen on Blackmachine pricing so 

Here's the BFR7 Buy Music Man John Petrucci BFR 7 Electric Guitar | Solid Body Electric Guitars | Musician's Friend.

For around the same price as the UV, you get a guitar with a mahogany tone block, direct mounted pups, alder wings and a maple top, piezo, and a trem that by all accounts I've read holds tune quite well.


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## walleye (Jul 8, 2010)

VacantPlanet said:


> and a trem that by all accounts I've read holds tune quite well.



yeah the musicman trems are really soemthing. and they handle double stops really well on the 7 string models as well, bending strings doesnt do much to alter tension


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## Raoul Duke (Jul 8, 2010)

Ibanez J-Custom RG8527 - eBay, Guitars Electric, Instruments, Musical Instruments. (end time 14-Jul-10 19:20:50 AEST)


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## Bungle (Jul 8, 2010)

Raoul Duke said:


> Ibanez J-Custom RG8527 - eBay, Guitars Electric, Instruments, Musical Instruments. (end time 14-Jul-10 19:20:50 AEST)


That's my guitar!  Thanks for the plug though.


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## AK DRAGON (Jul 9, 2010)

J Custom all the way!!
I love mine


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## Cheesebuiscut (Jul 9, 2010)

Yeah I would vote Jcustom as well, the Uni probably won't be as nice as the J-custom.

The blackmachine could potentially be awesome but I couldn't stand waiting years and years... you pretty much have to buy someones spot which I wouldn't enjoy doing on top of how expensive those things go.


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## Bloody_Inferno (Jul 9, 2010)

Definitely the J Custom for my vote. 

Fantastic quality instruments.


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## Raoul Duke (Jul 9, 2010)

Bungle said:


> That's my guitar!  Thanks for the plug though.





No worries

It's a shame I don't have any money at the moment.

I would've snapped that up 

Bloody Car Rego and Insurance


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## Bungle (Jul 9, 2010)

I know, rego/insurance always strikes at the shittiest times. I've just had to shell out for mine too, right when I'm gassing hard for a laptop 

[/derail]


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## Meshugger (Jul 9, 2010)

Raoul Duke said:


> Ibanez J-Custom RG8527 - eBay, Guitars Electric, Instruments, Musical Instruments. (end time 14-Jul-10 19:20:50 AEST)



Nooo, of course it is up while i have no cash at all  Can't you wait for 6-12 months?


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## BMU (Jul 9, 2010)

Is it some kind of fashion to bash new UVs? I played a 1990 for close to 15 years until it got stolen, I like my new one ('08) much better. Easier trem to change strings on, sounds better, plays better, looks better.

But yeah the J-Customs are surprisingly not THAT much more expensive than a UV, for something way more exclusive and even prettier that probably received a lot of hours more hands-on expert luthier attention. So thay say.

BM's..I want one too but they're just not obtainable. Doesn't seem like an option at all.


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## MaxOfMetal (Jul 9, 2010)

BMU said:


> Is it some kind of fashion to bash new UVs? I played a 1990 for close to 15 years until it got stolen, I like my new one ('08) much better. Easier trem to change strings on, sounds better, plays better, looks better.
> 
> But yeah the J-Customs are surprisingly not THAT much more expensive than a UV, for something way more exclusive and even prettier that probably received a lot of hours more hands-on expert luthier attention. So thay say.
> 
> BM's..I want one too but they're just not obtainable. Doesn't seem like an option at all.



I'd probably be the last one to bash a UV. I fucking LOVE them.

Though, I can say honestly, that the fretwork and build quality on the J-Customs is better. Not by a giant leap, but that J-Custom fretwork is amazing.

My condolences on the stolen UV7 man. I think I would kill someone if that happened to one of mine.


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## JaeSwift (Jul 9, 2010)

Honestly, I'de vote ''none'' and get a Strictly 7, BRJ or KxK.


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## BMU (Jul 10, 2010)

MaxOfMetal said:


> My condolences on the stolen UV7 man. I think I would kill someone if that happened to one of mine.


Thanks man. I got over it pretty quick when I realized insurance were buying me a brand new one lol. I bought the 1990 2nd hand to start with and it was far from mint near the end. 

To the original poster: you know, I also have an RG1527 and I honestly can't say the UV is worth double or triple the price. I play both of them A LOT and love them equally. The UV does have that amazing unfinished neck which beats the Prestige, has slightly smaller frets which may or may not suit and individual's taste better. But mostly you're paying for bling imo. A Prestige is a real option if budget is a concern to you. 

On the other hand, if you want a top-end guitar, you want a top-end guitar, end of story.  The way GAS works, it's actually cheaper to save up and get something so kick-ass sexy you won't find an excuse to lust over anything else for a good many years. Good luck.


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## buffa d (Jul 10, 2010)

There's one for sale on mnet: Muusikoiden.net - Tori - Ibanez J.Custom 8127 vm.-05 7-kielinen

happy hunting


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## Rashputin (Jul 10, 2010)

The Blackmachine. 

These are quite different guitars though man. I don't really see how one can compare between them as they are very different beasts in many ways. The B7 is a hard tail, has a 32mm thick swamp ash body with a 2mm thick all ebony top with natural finish. The Ibanez guitars have floyd rose type tremlos, flashy inlays, lockingnuts, colored clear coated finish etc. Different tonewoods, different finish, different fretboards, inlays, hardware, pickups, tremolos etc. etc.

So this is a case of minimalistic craftmanship (less is more) vs. flashy tricked out Steve Vai type guitars (more is more). I like them all, but for me personally, not considering the 2 year wait and price tag, I'd go hands down with the B7.


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## Duke318 (Jul 10, 2010)

I don't understand the hype behind the blackmachines...it seems like a lot of them have been put up for sale recently. I mean yeah, the headstock looks kind of cool, but everything else looks pretty bland to me, maybe I'm missing something?


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## Ryan-ZenGtr- (Jul 10, 2010)

If I were buying a 7, I'd just get an old UV (90'-97'), replace the pickups with new and know that the more I play it, the more valuable it becomes.

The 1527 is a good guitar and available cheaply 2nd hand.

I've met Doug Campbell from Blackmachine and played his 8 string fanned fret, as well as some 7's. Really nice, innovative guitars. The US market has him overworked at the moment! Worth the money, but is any guitar worth that much ?

On a side note, I left my UV PWH at a gig (distracted whilst getting in car by someone doing donuts in the car park) and drove off without it. I even put out the word with the local addicts to track it down for me, before heading down to the police station to make a report... Turns out some one saw the show and took it back to the venue who got it back to me. Closest I've ever come to crying as an adult was when I got it back. That's the best reason I've ever had for playing good!

Those old UV's are from a time when real music was available to all, not just specialist sections in specialist stores...

To be honest, after all the guitars I've had, they're all good. Take 'em apart, fix 'em up, put what you want in them and make 'em how you like 'em. The expensive ones just start of nicer.

Good luck with your choice, I always go cheap and make 'em custom! With the UV's there's a big aftermarket of push to fit parts as well...


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## BMU (Jul 10, 2010)

Isn't a BlackMachine in the region of 2300 euro for a B7? I saw that in a thread here somewhere, but maybe my information is out of date. If it is, it's in the price range spanning from UV to J-Custom.


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## BMU (Jul 10, 2010)

PS @Ryan-ZenGtr- - dude I'm really, REALLY happy for you getting your white UV back. I'd kill for one of those white ones.


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## technomancer (Jul 10, 2010)

Duke318 said:


> I don't understand the hype behind the blackmachines...it seems like a lot of them have been put up for sale recently. I mean yeah, the headstock looks kind of cool, but everything else looks pretty bland to me, maybe I'm missing something?



The ones that have been for sale have been B6s which are basically outsourced then assembled by Doug, they're pretty much the bottom rung of the ladder for the brand and are nowhere near the quality of the higher end models like the B7 and the B2



BMU said:


> Isn't a BlackMachine in the region of 2300 euro for a B7? I saw that in a thread here somewhere, but maybe my information is out of date. If it is, it's in the price range spanning from UV to J-Custom.



The B6 6 string is around that before shipping... somebody posted some prices a while ago, the B7 is much more expensive and is also not available for order currently... biggest difference is craftsmanship and wood selections


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## Emperoff (Jul 10, 2010)

Bungle said:


> That's my guitar!  Thanks for the plug though.



Holy fuck. If you don't sell it you may have news for me next month


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## Meshugger (Jul 10, 2010)

buffa d said:


> There's one for sale on mnet: Muusikoiden.net - Tori - Ibanez J.Custom 8127 vm.-05 7-kielinen
> 
> happy hunting



The price sure is right, damn i hate to be poor. About the JP7's, they sure look like quality, but they simply aren't my kind of guitar, thanks anyway 

I was under the impression that those guitars that i mentioned were roughly in the same price range. Consider the time it would take me to able to afford one, i would have to save cash for a year. After paying the monthly debt of the apartment, car and other bills, i simply have ~200 left each month. Saving up to 3500 and upwards just doesn't feel like it is worth the time for me.

And before "get a better job/better priorities", i do have an engineering degree and a science degree. I work within my field and have a salary that corresponds the mean within this field in the area where i live


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## BMU (Jul 11, 2010)

Meshugger said:


> And before "get a better job/better priorities",


Well only a real *hole would tell you that, imo! We all have our means, and when you're young, you have no money no matter what job you're in! (Engineer myself so I'm not making this up!)

But really, why do you need to kill yourself financially to buy a high-bling guitar then. Wait for your midlife crisis and then get the UV, J-Custom, Rolex etc etc.  The price:utility ratio declines sharply when you go higher than the $1200-1600 level.


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## Meshugger (Jul 11, 2010)

"Wait for your midlife crisis", will do


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## AK DRAGON (Jul 11, 2010)

Meshugger said:


> "Wait for your midlife crisis", will do


Guitarists have mid life crisis?


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## Deathmetal94564 (Jul 11, 2010)

I'd go for the black machine B7, only cause I'm not a fan of Ibanez necks.


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## MrZUmis (Sep 13, 2010)

blackmachine is fantastic!!!!!! the perfect guitar...but I think it costs more than the universe and the J-custom togheter! hufschmid are fantastic guitars too, extreme quality, amazing look, great sound!


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## mrhankey87 (Sep 13, 2010)

ciao zu


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## Sunlit Omega (Sep 13, 2010)

Damnit. Looking in this thread makes me want a KxK Sii-7 so bad right now.


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## PyramidSmasher (Sep 13, 2010)

J-Custom no doubt. I'm gonna get shit for this, but I am unimpressed with the Blackmachine B7 for anything other than looks.


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## jtm45 (Sep 13, 2010)

Have you played a B7 ?
I love UV's and JC's but i'd still take a Blackmachine over either!
The B7 is a totally handbuilt guitar built using the very best quality tonewoods and hardware and both of the B7's i've had the brief but glorious pleasure of playing having been in a completely different league to any Ibanez i've ever played or owned, including LACS Ibanez' 7's.


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## Koshchei (Sep 18, 2010)

I'd go with the cheapest. The differences between them, as top flight guitars, are more or less only aesthetic. The playability will be superior on any of them (and also quite similar).


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 20, 2010)

Koshchei said:


> I'd go with the cheapest. The differences between them, as top flight guitars, are more or less only aesthetic. The playability will be superior on any of them (and also quite similar).



Hardly. The fretwork and craftsmanship on a custom guitar is going to smoke any production guitar.


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## Wi77iam (Sep 20, 2010)

JJ Rodriguez said:


> Hardly. The fretwork and craftsmanship on a custom guitar is going to smoke any production guitar.



The J custom will probably have top notch fretwork as well, which will also smoke the "normal" production guitars.


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## ralphy1976 (Sep 20, 2010)

jymellis said:


> j custom or an OLDER UV.



i concur. like most of us i have never seen or played a blackmachine, but would really like to.

Old Universe are really great, my problem is that i am too worried to damage mine to use it!!!


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 20, 2010)

Wi77iam said:


> The J custom will probably have top notch fretwork as well, which will also smoke the "normal" production guitars.



Maybe, but probably not on the level of the Blackmachine. I have an RG7CT (theoretically a J-Custom prototype) and while it's nice, my KxK smokes it. The Blackmachine would most certainly smoke the Universe. I'm just saying that saying "get the cheapest because the only difference is aesthetics" is WAY off.


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## Koshchei (Sep 20, 2010)

I haven't had my morning coffee yet, so bear with me: I wasn't talking about detailing or how each piece of wood has been lovingly selected by the finest craftsmen on the planet from the depths of the rain forest. I was talking about playability, and that any of those guitars will play VERY nicely.

When you get to guitars as expensive as the UV, J-Custom, or B7, you've entered the world of diminishing returns. They're all fine instruments, but if you want something "extra", expect to be paying several cheaper guitars worth of markup for it. To you, or a virtuoso's virtuoso virtuoso, it may be worth it - Uli Roth spent $1000 in 1986 dollars PER PICKUP for his Mega Wing system, and he certainly doesn't seem to have any regrets. Shane Gibson plays a relatively stock Carvin DC747, and doesn't have any complaints either.

To me, a balance must be struck. I don't make even 1% of my living from playing music, therefore I cannot justify a $5,000+ guitar in 18 months when a $2000 guitar today will meet my needs. Chacun a son gout.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 20, 2010)

I'm talking about playability too. Maybe not so much on the J-Custom, but on the UV's they will use softer fretwire to save cash and make easier for the fret dressing and shit, so within a few years you'll need to dress them. I don't know about Blackmachine, but they might use stainless steel. I've also heard luthiers say you don't need to bother with ss frets because the regular wire they use is harder than the frets they use at factories. To me, what a guitar will play like in 5-10 years is just as important as how it plays on the day you bought it. I opted for ss frets in my KxK's.

Now I don't know about the J-Customs that are coming out now, but my RG7CT is from 1999, and it needed a fret leveling like 2 years ago. I wonder how long before I got it it needed that. This is all of course assuming the rumors that the RG7CT is in fact a re-branded J-Custom proto is true


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## Koshchei (Sep 20, 2010)

I'm totally onboard with you about stainless frets. They're a primary reason that I play Carvin guitars - as a $40 upgrade combined with Carvin's stellar fretwork, they're a steal. 

I don't know whether Blackmachine uses stainless, but Ibanez certainly still uses nickel/silver. Can't comment with certainty on the relative hardness of the nickel/silver frets on a J-Custom vs a UV, but suspect that it's bullshit that one is any different than the other.


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## JJ Rodriguez (Sep 20, 2010)

I could see it being plausible, cheaper materials, etc.


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## kmanick (Sep 20, 2010)

I'd go with the J-custom, but you should call Bernie Rico Jr. and tell him what you like
"Aesthetically".
Mine is quite a bit different from the "run of the mill" Rico 7's that he puts out.
He'll make you just about anything tht is not a clone of another brand.


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## HumanFuseBen (Sep 20, 2010)

i'd rock that J Custom!


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## Meshugger (Sep 21, 2010)

Reading this thread now makes me a bit sad inside. Due to unforseen happenings with my private finance, i currently lack the cash to even buy a used UV in the near future  Being afraid of breaking household budget when buying basic groceries suck, btw. But i should be happy that i have a nice apartment, an ok car and a job that i don't despise.

But some day, goddammit, _some_ day i will have the funds to choose what i want of those three without thinking about money.


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