# Dingwall bass tone without a Dingwall?



## bjgrifter

So, I'm noticing the growl of a Dingwall, yet it's so clear. Like with Periphery and Northlane. I can't drop that much on any instrument, but I'm wondering how to get in the ballpark.


I use a Schecter Stiletto Extreme 5, stock. I'd consider pickups if it helps over EQ tweaks.


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## KnightBrolaire

bjgrifter said:


> So, I'm noticing the growl of a Dingwall, yet it's so clear. Like with Periphery and Northlane. I can't drop that much on any instrument, but I'm wondering how to get in the ballpark.
> 
> 
> I use a Schecter Stiletto Extreme 5, stock. I'd consider pickups if it helps over EQ tweaks.


That growl is largely coming from the darkglass preamp/ the darkglass omega distortion pedal iirc.


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## olejason

Use stainless strings and set up the bass so you get some fret 'clank' going


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## Drew

bjgrifter said:


> So, I'm noticing the growl of a Dingwall, yet it's so clear. Like with Periphery and Northlane. I can't drop that much on any instrument, but I'm wondering how to get in the ballpark.
> 
> 
> I use a Schecter Stiletto Extreme 5, stock. I'd consider pickups if it helps over EQ tweaks.


Not familiar with the pickups in that (some sort of EMG?), nor am I familiar with _which _pickup positions Nolly tends to favor... but, if they're humbuckers, can you split them to function like singlecoils? 

I used to own a Dingwall Afterburner 5. I eventually sold it, partly because I never really got on with the fanned scale, but also because, at the end of the day, my $200 Squier P bass with J-bass electronics just sounded better to me than the Afterburner. A singlecoil bass pickup is surprisingly devastating if you want clarity, growl, and "clank" from your sound.


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## spudmunkey

KnightBrolaire said:


> That growl is largely coming from the darkglass preamp/ the darkglass omega distortion pedal iirc.



I know very little about bass tone. But I know I like two things, and they both seemed similar to me (and now it makes sense why): 1) Dingwall bases, and 2) Basically everything Darkglass puts out. So if Dingwall uses Darkglass, that makes the most sense out of anything else in my life.


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## MaxOfMetal

I'd say the "Dingwall tone" is probably 50% Darkglass preamp and then equal parts pickup position (sweet spot and bridge) and then the scale. 

I have a Dingwall with another on the way. Really unique tone out of the box, but you should be able to cop it.


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## KnightBrolaire

spudmunkey said:


> I know very little about bass tone. But I know I like two things, and they both seemed similar to me (and now it makes sense why): 1) Dingwall bases, and 2) Basically everything Darkglass puts out. So if Dingwall uses Darkglass, that makes the most sense out of anything else in my life.


if you listen to demos of the darkglass stuff they all share that growl regardless of the bass used. iirc the bassist from karnivool used 4 and 6 string warwicks for the last 2 albums -he's basically the godfather of that growly darkglass tone


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

The Dingwall tone to me is reminiscent of the old school Eddie Jackson/Queensryche bass tone from Promised Land ala "Disconnected" & "Damaged".


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## jephjacques

you can get close by running a clean signal alongside a heavily distorted one with a high-pass filter around 200hz, EQ and mix to taste.


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## lewis

- Buy Dingwall pickups (yes they are available)
- Buy Tone Capsule Darkglass Preamp
- use bass with scaler longer than 35inch
- Use Steel strings not nickel


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## spudmunkey

jephjacques said:


> you can get close by running a clean signal alongside a heavily distorted one with a high-pass filter around 200hz, EQ and mix to taste.



Even though I only ever used it on guitar, I bought the Soul Food Bass overdrive pedal because it had that extra "blend" knob. I'm not sure if that's more common on bass OD pedals than it is on guitar, but I LOVED that sound. I never actually played a bass though it, but I could see how that could go a long way.


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## ixlramp

bjgrifter said:


> yet it's so clear


The clarity is mostly due to the scale length, and there is no substitute for that.


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## DeKay

I bought an darkglass preamp and put that one in my brice 37scale bass - sounds like a dingwall instantly!


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## bostjan

I advocate calling this tone "Nolly's tone," as opposed to "Dingwall tone." Dingwall has made tons of other instruments (i.e. basses) that don't have the Darkglass electronics in the past.

Anyway. Think of any particular tone like a cake. The cake is how it is because of the ingredients and because of the way it is made with those ingredients. It is possible to make a cake that tastes similar with different ingredients, particularly if you know how to bake very well. Similarly, if you don't have the Dingwall NG, you can achieve a very similar tone, if you know how to adjust you playing and your settings very well.

Likewise, if you don't play with the same techniques and don't use any similar principles in determining your settings, you could use exactly the same equipment and sound totally unique.

Everyone in this thread is already keyed in perfectly with the "key ingredients": darkglass preamp/capsule, Dingwall pickups, extended scale length. @Drew mentioned another set of ingredients that works better for him (single coil pickups).

So, since your bass is 35", and you don't want a new instrument, I would say try a Darkglass capsule first, as that's the key ingredient that is easiest to change. If that gets you most of the way you want to go, but you need more, try the Dingwall pickups. If not, maybe investigate your approach to playing and settings.


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## Winspear

jephjacques said:


> you can get close by running a clean signal alongside a heavily distorted one with a high-pass filter around 200hz, EQ and mix to taste.


Yep, I'd very much suggest looking into the general modern metal bass production technique in general. Some of the more recent Darkglass gear, as well as the Neural Parallax software, is designed to make this kind of multiband distortion/compression/clean blending etc easier for you


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## Merrekof

I once travelled down this road too and ended up buying a Combustion 5. Best purchase ever and totally worth the money imo.

Now, the Combustion came stock with an EMG 3 band EQ and I replaced it with the Darkglass. To my surprise, it wasn't that different. Would I choose the Darkglass over the EMG? Yes, definetely. Would I swap out the EMG eq for the Darkglass? I don't think so, aside from different eq frequencies, they aren't that much different. The bass I owned before, an LTD B5E had a similar or thesame (can't recall right now) preamp on board as the stock Combustion yet both basses sound vastly different.

That said, I don't think a Darkglass preamp in you Schecter is gonna get the sound you want. That sound is a sum of multiple things.


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## Winspear

^ Agreed, I am surprised how much emphasis is placed on the Darkglass preamp in basses. It's not like it's being used for distortion. Just some slightly different frequencies indeed (and not necessarily the 'best' sounding ones for any given bass, or ones different to what you may already have present on other pedals/amp controls). I like to select preamps by EQing the passive bass to taste in a DAW and finding which preamp matches my favourite frequencies closest.
The Darkglass pedal preamps in terms of pedal distortion however are certainly important , but it's nothing that can't be emulated with other distortion and production techniques


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## Esp Griffyn

I agree that the typical "djent" tone that Nolly et al use shouldn't be called the "Dingwall tone", as that is doing a disservice to Dingwalls in general. Dingwall were around a long time before "djent".

If you just want to get close to the tone, then straighten your neck right out and drop the action down until it buzzes a little when you dig in. This is my personal preference for a setup on virtually any bass, though I don't play metal. From there, add some distortion from a Darkglass Alpha / Omega or similar. Darkglass have a quite distinct "clean" quality to their distortion. I find some bass distortion pedals can add a lot of fuzz and wooliness. There's a YouTube video somewhere where Nolly talks through his EQ settings, but you may need to customise somewhat based on your gear. For example, if your bass amp has tweeters you may way to roll them off or remove some highs from the EQ as the distortion can make them sound really harsh and nasty.

Another thing to consider is picking technique. Nolly did a video for Scott's Bass Lessons where he talks through his picking technique. From what I remember it's a thin pick, nestled between thumb and forefinger in almost a closed fist, picking with a lot of wrist and elbow motion, hitting hard to make the string clank off the top frets.


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## eaeolian

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> The Dingwall tone to me is reminiscent of the old school Eddie Jackson/Queensryche bass tone from Promised Land ala "Disconnected" & "Damaged".



That's actually a good comparison. At least 50% of that tone is the Darkglass pre, though.


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## Merrekof

eaeolian said:


> That's actually a good comparison. At least 50% of that tone is the Darkglass pre, though.


No, it is not. As I stated here before, an EMG 3 band eq does the job just as good as the Darkglass tone capsule. If I set my Combustion 5 on passive mode, that clank is still there, albeit a lot less prominent. 

To go further on the OP's question, it might be good trying out a Darkglass B3K or something similar.


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## eaeolian

Merrekof said:


> No, it is not. As I stated here before, an EMG 3 band eq does the job just as good as the Darkglass tone capsule. If I set my Combustion 5 on passive mode, that clank is still there, albeit a lot less prominent.



Sorry, I wasn't clear - the Darkglass preamp pedal he was using, not the internal preamp. My fault.


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## noise in my mind

maybe try and demo the darkglass plugin?


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

I've gotten it with a Carvin 6 bass with soapbars and a Status Mark King with active "J" pickups using either the Sansamp PSA-1 plugin with a comp in front and an eq plugin afterwards, and I've gotten it recently with the STL Totnality Will Putney using one of the cab I.R.'s. It is largely an eq thing, but many eq's have their own personality, just like comps do, which is why many engineers favor certain ones, like the 1176. 

Eddie Jackson's tone from Promised Land was in 1995, pre-Darkglass era, using a GK-RB800 and some other outboard gear such as one of the earlier Sansamp preamps.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

Drew said:


> A singlecoil bass pickup is surprisingly devastating if you want clarity, growl, and "clank" from your sound.



Worked on a P Bass for Geezer Butler for a long dang time.
Clank on a bass is what Quack is to a guitar.


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## Drew

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> Worked on a P Bass for Geezer Butler for a long dang time.
> Clank on a bass is what Quack is to a guitar.


Yeah, again, probably an unpopular opinion, but if you're looking for a clear, growly bass tone with a lot of clank, I'd start with singlecoils. They're fuckin' brutal with some grit in the high end.


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## astrocreep

If you are handy with a soldering iron, this is a great way to get into the darkglass ballpark at a lower price: https://www.musikding.de/Guma-Drive-Overdrive-kit


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## stevexc

astrocreep said:


> If you are handy with a soldering iron, this is a great way to get into the darkglass ballpark at a lower price: https://www.musikding.de/Guma-Drive-Overdrive-kit



Keep in mind it does require some SMD soldering which can be challenging, especially if it's your first DIY pedal. But a solid option. And I can vouch for the quality of his kits, I've built the Pumpernickel Compressor which is fantastic.


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## Merrekof

astrocreep said:


> If you are handy with a soldering iron, this is a great way to get into the darkglass ballpark at a lower price: https://www.musikding.de/Guma-Drive-Overdrive-kit


The Black Mirror kit is a Darkglass B3K clone. Also available through Musikding and with two SMD J201's, but that shouldn't stop you. It wasn't that hard to solder. I Built it a while back and really enjoy that pedal.


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## LordCashew

I'm another Dingwall owner and Tone Capsule "skeptic."  Don't get me wrong, it's a nice and very usable pre. But as others have mentioned, the bass sounds fundamentally the same in passive mode, at least with the knobs set flat. Thus getting an outboard pre with similar frequency centers (like the B7K IIRC) should get you very similar results with the added benefit of use on multiple instruments.

The instrument's sound does indeed come down to the pickups and their positioning, and the construction of the bass itself. Even unplugged mine has more sustain and ring than my other basses. Obviously the multiscale helps on the lower strings but even the strings which are still close to 34" still have exceptional sustain and evenness, particularly in the upper registers. I suspect the graphite in the neck helps.

Regarding the comments on single coil/P bass sound: you guys are not at all off base. The FD3N pickups in the NG basses are reverse P splitcoils under the soapbar covers. Nordstrand has an agreement with Dingwall and will build their pickups designs in other shells. Those would probably be the best shot at making a given bass sound _more _like a Dingwall. However the Schecter in question, even with swapped pickups, would not allow for the "bridge+middle in series" position that Nolly favors.


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## MaxOfMetal

"Preamp doesn't matter...but get a Darkglass pedal."


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## LordCashew

Didn't say it doesn't matter, but I can see how you got there. A lot of people think the tone capsule has some baked-in tone magic even set flat, which I don't hear. That's the main thing I'm skeptical of - I assumed that was clear from the context of previous posts but it probably wasn't. My bad.

A lot of people conflate the sound of a Dingwall with the sound of Darkglass gear, and understandably so. I suggested getting an outboard pre since that way you can have the EQ part of the equation with any instrument you use. And there's more going on with the outboard pres than in the tone capsule.


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## MaxOfMetal

Most folks mean Darkglass tone when they say Dingwall tone, because most folks have heard NG models vs. the more upmarket stuff. I'd say it's even more popular than the regular Combustion. 

I have a Combustion, have a D-Roc on the way, and had both an ABZ and NG2. I've swapped out preamps and found a difference when adjusted. 

Obviously the scale and overall rig matters, but from my hands on experience the preamp sounds different. Comparing them when set flat isn't a great indicator of what they're capable of.


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## Merrekof

MaxOfMetal said:


> I've swapped out preamps and found a difference when adjusted.


I swapped the stock EMG preamp with a Darkglass tone capsule and thought it was gonna sound totally different. It did, there was a difference but it was a lot less then I expected. Like I stated earlier, I prefer the tone capsule because that high mid is more usable for me than the regular high on the EMG preamp. I don't think swapping preamps was worth it in the end, for me.
In my experience, in my case, I found that the "Dingwall or Darkglass" tone mentioned above is from the pups, strings, frets and/or wood. In my limited knowledge and experience about guitars I would say the pups are by far the biggest factor. The rest adds up.
Could be wrong. Like I said, limited knowledge and experience.


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## Flappydoodle

I feel like a lot of that clarity is simply thanks to the 37 inch scale. That's pretty hard to emulate with pedals or EQ

As others said, the Nolly tone is basically having low action, spanking the strings hard, using compression, and having a clean low end with distorted mid range and treble


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## Esp Griffyn

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> The Dingwall tone to me is reminiscent of the old school Eddie Jackson/Queensryche bass tone from Promised Land ala "Disconnected" & "Damaged".



The famous Spector growl. Worked wonders for plenty of bands over the years. Imo it's the quintessential rock or metal bass tone.


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## LordCashew

MaxOfMetal said:


> Most folks mean Darkglass tone when they say Dingwall tone, because most folks have heard NG models vs. the more upmarket stuff. I'd say it's even more popular than the regular Combustion.
> 
> I have a Combustion, have a D-Roc on the way, and had both an ABZ and NG2. I've swapped out preamps and found a difference when adjusted.
> 
> Obviously the scale and overall rig matters, but from my hands on experience the preamp sounds different. Comparing them when set flat isn't a great indicator of what they're capable of.



I agree with what you're saying, totally makes sense. But do you think the onboard pre still makes a worthwhile difference if you have a pedal with the same EQ adjustments? And for your own use, what is the advantage of having it onboard? Do you want on-the-fly tweakability, or the Darkglass EQ without the gain, or... ? I'm genuinely curious. Like I said, I think it's a good preamp. I'm just getting everything I need later in the signal chain.



Merrekof said:


> I found that the "Dingwall or Darkglass" tone mentioned above is from the pups, strings, frets and/or wood. In my limited knowledge and experience about guitars I would say the pups are by far the biggest factor. The rest adds up.
> Could be wrong. Like I said, limited knowledge and experience.



My feeling is that with the level of gain often used in this sound, the signal processing really is the most important part. (That and fresh strings, obviously...) I also think it's helpful to separate what the instrument contributes vs. what the EQ, parallel/crossed-over distortion, compression, etc. is contributing. Onboard preamps blur the line a little, probably the Tone Capsule in particular because of its EQ points are a part of the BXk sound. As far as the bass itself is concerned, I agree the pickups are a huge factor, as evidenced by demos of non-Dingwall basses with similar scale lengths that sound totally different.

I think for someone who wants "the sound" on the cheap, getting the Parallaxe plugin or one of the DG outboard pres (and fresh strings) is the best course of action and will yield an acceptable approximation. Getting the pickups could well take it another step closer, especially with the option to wire two of them in series. But that's a little speculative because they'll generally be in different positions as an upgrade than stock on a Dingwall. I'm super curious how that would work but haven't heard it yet.


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## Drew

LordIronSpatula said:


> Regarding the comments on single coil/P bass sound: you guys are not at all off base. The FD3N pickups in the NG basses are reverse P splitcoils under the soapbar covers. Nordstrand has an agreement with Dingwall and will build their pickups designs in other shells. Those would probably be the best shot at making a given bass sound _more _like a Dingwall. However the Schecter in question, even with swapped pickups, would not allow for the "bridge+middle in series" position that Nolly favors.


Thanks for the background here - I didn't know this, and it's good to know that this isn't my imagination.


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## bjgrifter

Thanks for the replies. My wife's grandmother passed away earlier this week, so I haven't been doing much with playing, but this gives me some good things to look into.

The Stiletto I have uses stock covered Schecter humbuckers with an active EQ.


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## GenghisCoyne

bjgrifter said:


> So, I'm noticing the growl of a Dingwall, yet it's so clear. Like with Periphery and Northlane. I can't drop that much on any instrument, but I'm wondering how to get in the ballpark.
> 
> 
> I use a Schecter Stiletto Extreme 5, stock. I'd consider pickups if it helps over EQ tweaks.




youre gonna want a fender jazz bass with flat wound strings to really cut through the mix. block inlays help as well, the contrast in materials makes the tone really zing.


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## astrocreep

Merrekof said:


> The Black Mirror kit is a Darkglass B3K clone. Also available through Musikding and with two SMD J201's, but that shouldn't stop you. It wasn't that hard to solder. I Built it a while back and really enjoy that pedal.



Oh, nice. It's even got room to fit an extra EQ in the system. 

The one I built also had SMD 201s and I was suprrised I didn't mess that up!


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## Merrekof

astrocreep said:


> Oh, nice. It's even got room to fit an extra EQ in the system.
> 
> The one I built also had SMD 201s and I was suprrised I didn't mess that up!


Jep, should be a B7-like upgrade IIRC. This wasn't necessary in my case since I already have an onboard eq.

I was sweating when I saw those SMD J201's but in the end it worked out. Slightly different approach when soldering and a fine tip with a little lower heat worked perfect. 
The things were a bitch to hold in place though..one sneeze and the parts are gone!


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## hord

Dingwall player here and just wanted to chime in.

If you are looking for the NG-2/3 sound, a lot of it is the Darkglass tone capsule. I've got a Z3 with it and they sound very close. I've also got Dingwalls with the Glockenklang pre-amp and while it sounds good, it is a lot different than the tone capsule.

The closest pickups I've tried that come close to a Dingwall are the Nordstrand pickups you can find in upper end Ibanez basses. No surprise there since they are all Nordstrand designed and made. The pickups in the NG-2/3 aren't made by Nordstrand but are based on the design and sound very close to me.

Beyond that I will say that the scale length makes a huge difference. I've never played another bass that feels or sounds like a Dingwall unplugged. The Ibanez fanned fret basses don't really come close to the same feel because they use a different scale. With a Glockenklang amp I've gotten piano-like sounds from a Dingwall. You can try to play with lighter string gauges to get closer but you'll lose a lot of low-end power by doing so.

Anyway, hope that helps.


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## Merrekof

hord said:


> Dingwall player here and just wanted to chime in.
> 
> If you are looking for the NG-2/3 sound, a lot of it is the Darkglass tone capsule. I've got a Z3 with it and they sound very close. I've also got Dingwalls with the Glockenklang pre-amp and while it sounds good, it is a lot different than the tone capsule.
> 
> The closest pickups I've tried that come close to a Dingwall are the Nordstrand pickups you can find in upper end Ibanez basses. No surprise there since they are all Nordstrand designed and made. The pickups in the NG-2/3 aren't made by Nordstrand but are based on the design and sound very close to me.
> 
> Beyond that I will say that the scale length makes a huge difference. I've never played another bass that feels or sounds like a Dingwall unplugged. The Ibanez fanned fret basses don't really come close to the same feel because they use a different scale. With a Glockenklang amp I've gotten piano-like sounds from a Dingwall. You can try to play with lighter string gauges to get closer but you'll lose a lot of low-end power by doing so.
> 
> Anyway, hope that helps.


Strange, my experience was that the Tone Capsule was not that important. Like I stated earlier, the EMG 3 band preamp wasn't all that different from the TC. Even when the TC is bypassed, I still retain a good chunk of that NG2/3 sound with my Combustion. 

I will say you are right when you say you've never played a bass like that Dingwall. Same here, this Combustion I have is by far the best bass I've ever played. I hoped to own a Z3 one day but I just can't put that much money down for one, not even at used prices.


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## CptnBps

Another Dingwall NG2 player here and it really is down to the scale length and switch wiring as far as I'm concerned. My main tone with it right now is in passive mode, series (bridge+middle). Even without any Darkglass in the chain, it just sounds like a Dingwall.


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## Merrekof

DrSadisticPhD said:


> Even without any Darkglass in the chain, it just sounds like a Dingwall.


Exactly!


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## Velokki

TonyFlyingSquirrel said:


> The Dingwall tone to me is reminiscent of the old school Eddie Jackson/Queensryche bass tone from Promised Land ala "Disconnected" & "Damaged".



Just listened to "Disconnected". God darn. Thanks for the recommendation!


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Velokki said:


> Just listened to "Disconnected". God darn. Thanks for the recommendation!



I think the specifics for that tone is an ALL-maple Spector bass (EMG P/J, Hazlab pre) on the P pickup as well as a regular ol' Fender P Bass with an EMG P in it, Gallien Krueger 800RB, 2x15 bass cab cranked to the fucking gills + a DI. 

Try some pickups that have a split-P design. IIRC Dingwall pickups are based on that. Darkglass pre could help as well.


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## ikarus

While we are at it, has anybody thried the B7K plugin from Neural DSP?


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## bostjan

DrSadisticPhD said:


> Another Dingwall NG2 player here and it really is down to the scale length and switch wiring as far as I'm concerned. My main tone with it right now is in passive mode, series (bridge+middle). Even without any Darkglass in the chain, it just sounds like a Dingwall.



I use the same configuration.


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## LordCashew

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Try some pickups that have a split-P design. IIRC Dingwall pickups are based on that.



Yep. Reverse-P coils in a soapbar shell.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

LordIronSpatula said:


> Reverse-P



Just like a Spector, too.


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## Ethan

Im going to buy an alpha omega and use it with the two active single coils on my warwick bass. I also want to record it direct into my audio interface and was wondering if I need anything like a good cab sim or if it will sound great anyways.


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## LordCashew

I would use a cab sim as the AO can get pretty fizzy going direct. There are plenty of cheap/free sims you can apply to your recorded tracks within your DAW. Try it without first just in case you end up liking it.


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## Avedas

DrSadisticPhD said:


> Another Dingwall NG2 player here and it really is down to the scale length and switch wiring as far as I'm concerned. My main tone with it right now is in passive mode, series (bridge+middle). Even without any Darkglass in the chain, it just sounds like a Dingwall.


I use the same configuration as well, but I'll often leave the preamp on with fairly neutral settings for a bit more power. I mostly play clean or with a small amount of dirt in the signal. I'm still amazed by how much heavy lifting the pure design of the NG2 does to get that sound.


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## Fun With Dirt

Although I am not a "djent" bassist in the slightest, I do use some of the techniques that Nolly uses here and there. To somewhat different ends... but employed none the less. As much as the gear plays a part in his sound, definitely look at his picking hand technique. He positively hammers the snot out of his strings to get sharp attack on the beginning of his notes by bouncing the strings off the frets at the heel end of the neck.


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