# Problems with increasing picking speed



## Vpod111z (Jan 23, 2012)

I've been practicing on improving my picking speed for months and not noticing any results. I've been stuck at 3 main tempos. 120, 130, and 140 BPM(playing 16ths BTW) I've literally searched around the Whole internet for a specific in depth video tutorial but haven't found one. I have specific questions that i either did'nt find or munderstood the answers to them. I have a pretty good Legato and Tapping technique(I don't want to say that its perfect) but id like to get a good picking technique for certain songs id like to cover. These are some specific questions i need to understand when picking. Sorry for all of the questions but id like to do everything I can to avoid relearning new methods or bad habits when picking up this technique

1. How tense am I? How relaxed am I? Am I too tense or too relaxed.
2. How should i rest my arm on the guitar. Should it be sitting on the guitar? or elevated in the air as i have my palm rested on the bridge for picking. What kind of angle should my elbow be in?
3. Does the pick need to stay straight at an angle at all times?(When i pick i tend to have my pick come up and down a little) its never in a flat position. When i pick down the pick slents up a little. When i pick up the pick slents down a little.
4. For how many minutes straight should i be picking on a certain tempo on the metronome and how for how long should i rest?
5. How should i move my picking across strings. Should my elbow be at rest or moving along with my wrist as i take it across strings?
6. Should i pick my hand up at all when moving to other strings?
7.How much of the pick should i use for picking and how much should i scoot my thumb back on it? 

If anyone can answer or help me find the answers to some of these questions or make a video explaining them. I would be very thankful  I apologize for some of my grammar BTW


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## feilong29 (Jan 23, 2012)

Vpod111z said:


> I've been practicing on improving my picking speed for months and not noticing any results. I've been stuck at 3 main tempos. 120, 130, and 140 BPM(playing 16ths BTW) I've literally searched around the Whole internet for a specific in depth video tutorial but haven't found one. I have specific questions that i either did'nt find or munderstood the answers to them. I have a pretty good Legato and Tapping technique(I don't want to say that its perfect) but id like to get a good picking technique for certain songs id like to cover. These are some specific questions i need to understand when picking. Sorry for all of the questions but id like to do everything I can to avoid relearning new methods or bad habits when picking up this technique
> 
> 1. How tense am I? How relaxed am I? Am I too tense or too relaxed.
> 2. How should i rest my arm on the guitar. Should it be sitting on the guitar? or elevated in the air as i have my palm rested on the bridge for picking. What kind of angle should my elbow be in?
> ...



I've asked the same questions and found answers and gotten some good results! 

1. You want to be as relaxed as possible... most tension and relaxation starts in your head. If you are mindful of you tension, ease up, and focus on being as relaxed as possible. Don't try to monkey grip the fretboard. Have a firm grip on the pick though.

2. This is player preference, but, I rest my forearm area on the body of the guitar, and palm on or near the bridge. Too high up on the guitar (resting wise) will mute out your strings as you try to play. Feel it out!

3. This is player preference too. I think Marty Friedman, and his weird hold on the pick makes his parallel to the strings (don't quote me). I angle my, but it is because of the way I hold the pick b/t my thumb and index finger. Look up Paul Gilberts picking technique; he has a good perspective on holding the pick. You want to hold it so that it creates smooth and fluid transition. I angle mine.

4. This varies. If you are at a speed where, no matter how long you play at that tempo, you play it clean, increase the metronome by 2-4 bpms. If you are a spot where you are a little sloppy, bump it up 15 bpm and try it... you will fail, BUT, go back to the speed you had trouble at, and you will be playing it just fine. Play at the impossible speed a for about, 20-30 seconds. All in all, do tempos for a minute at the most (maybe a little longer for muscle memory) and increase bpms by 2-4, BAM!

5. Try not to use your wrist... most fast players (Andy James, Rob Marcello, Yngwie, so forth and so on) use their wrist, and it is smooth and barely any movement. Elbow movement is fine, but, it can also cause strain. Player preference. Also, watch Andy James' video on how to play Yngwie's song, far beyond the sun or something like that... when he does has single string licks and descending scale runs, note how slight the movement in his picking motion is... reeeeeeeeeeediculous! But try to mimic it. Small strokes coupled with usings as little surface of the pick as possible will help tremendously with speed!

6. Try to learn how to slightly brush your hands across the strings... don't lift up. Just move smooth across, almost like when you sweep pick.

7. You want as little of the pick contacting the strings as possible. A great guitarist (a fast one at that) said that, when you have the least bit of the pick moving, you don't have that much surface making contact with the strings, hence, you move faster. The more pick you have expose, the more likely you are to dig into the strings, and the slower you will become. I use Jazz IIIs and Dunlop Tortex (slightly larger than a Jazz III), and with those, you have NO choice but to use a little bit of the pic. 

I hope that sorta helps. It helped me and also, and this is player preference... if you pick with your last three fingers extended, try to adapt to curling those piggies in... makes a world of difference after you get used to it!


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## SirMyghin (Jan 23, 2012)

Only 7 someone else can help with really, the rest is up to you, as above, use as little of the pick as possible, how you hold it is up to you though. I use dunlop sharps (or more appropriately, I stole their shape), so something closer to traditional size, but no more then 1-2mm of the pick eats the string either way. You want stiffer picks too, more control, and you can actually vary your attack and go fast enough when using that little pick. My material of choice = agate.


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## Vpod111z (Jan 23, 2012)

SirMyghin said:


> Only 7 someone else can help with really, the rest is up to you, as above, use as little of the pick as possible, how you hold it is up to you though. I use dunlop sharps (or more appropriately, I stole their shape), so something closer to traditional size, but no more then 1-2mm of the pick eats the string either way. You want stiffer picks too, more control, and you can actually vary your attack and go fast enough when using that little pick. My material of choice = agate.


 Thanks  I will take using some agate picks into consideration and see if it helps out with tone a little  im currently using 1.0 mm Dunlop tortex picks ATM


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## feilong29 (Jan 23, 2012)

SirMyghin said:


> Only 7 someone else can help with really, the rest is up to you, as above, use as little of the pick as possible, how you hold it is up to you though. I use dunlop sharps (or more appropriately, I stole their shape), so something closer to traditional size, but no more then 1-2mm of the pick eats the string either way. You want stiffer picks too, more control, and you can actually vary your attack and go fast enough when using that little pick. My material of choice = agate.



Yes! Hard picks are awesome and make a huge difference!


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## SirMyghin (Jan 23, 2012)

Vpod111z said:


> Thanks  I will take using some agate picks into consideration and see if it helps out with tone a little  im currently using 1.0 mm Dunlop tortex picks ATM



Acrylic ones are also very nice, the problem with most agate picks is they are not pointy enough. I had to find someone to make mine to the desired shapes. Acrylic isn't quite as sharp as agate, but both have their place. There are a whole lot of materials out there though, try em all


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## Vpod111z (Jan 23, 2012)

SirMyghin said:


> Acrylic ones are also very nice, the problem with most agate picks is they are not pointy enough. I had to find someone to make mine to the desired shapes. Acrylic isn't quite as sharp as agate, but both have their place. There are a whole lot of materials out there though, try em all



lol my plastic tortex picks would eventually run out and get round after practice. Id eventually get a butter knife and sharpen those


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## SirMyghin (Jan 23, 2012)

Pretty much, that is why I stopped using tortex, I love how the material feels in your hands.


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## feilong29 (Jan 23, 2012)

Vpod111z said:


> lol my plastic tortex picks would eventually run out and get round after practice. Id eventually get a butter knife and sharpen those



Ya I got thru them, atleast once a week!


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## Solodini (Jan 24, 2012)

feilong29 said:


> 5. Try not to use your wrist...



Did you mean to say this? What you say afterward seems contradictory.


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## eurolove (Jan 24, 2012)

i like to quote rusty when i comes to arm or wrist picking. he basically says that you can play fast using your arm or wrist or both and that several great guitarists have proven this. but what he warns against is using your thumb and finger to move the pick so id make sure to limit that.


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## Maniacal (Jan 24, 2012)

The problem with elbow picking is string skipping smoothly and muting strings while string skipping.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 24, 2012)

Sometimes slowing down can help you to speed up. Perhaps focusing solely on speed has caused you to develop a block about being able to play faster than you currently do. You may just be plateauing temporarily. No matter what, don't let this discourage you. 

BTW I tend to pick from the wrist for the most part. I pick from the elbow when I'm playing something that is out of my comfort zone speed-wise usually.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 24, 2012)

I forgot to address the topic of picks. I actually rather enjoy the Jazz III tortex picks as well as the Jazz III ultexes. Perhaps I pick lighter than some of you other folks, but I've found that these 2 picks seem to last me a good while. Acrylic picks on the other hand, I seem to grind right through...


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## Maniacal (Jan 24, 2012)

If you are having problems picking, get some Stylus picks and do both endurance and speed exercises. Problem solved.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 24, 2012)

^ +1

Endurance is a big one. You might technically be able to play at a certain speed, but not have the endurance to keep it up long enough to sound good if that makes any sense. It's kind of like lifting weights... You may have the strength to push up a particular amount of weight one time but not the endurance to rep it.


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## bey0ndreaz0n (Jan 24, 2012)

So what happens when you reach 140bpm and beyond? Do you start to tense up? Do you hit strings by accident? Do the miss fret notes? My point is in order to get past this you need to identify the specific problem(s) that's holding you back, and then work on that. With me everything falls apart at a certain speed because my left hand looses sync with the right hand, and so the quicker I go the less actual notes you hear!

I know it's been said a million times but practicing something slow first actually really helps. For me and my sync problems I practice stupid slow, like I have it so slow that there is an uncomfortable-amount-of-time between each note (like playing quarter notes at 60bpm) and focusing on each hand being on and off at exactly the same time, with a minmal amount of movement and effort. The idea is that your brain is in complete control over your muscles, (and not relying on your muscle memory), in order for you to develop new muscle memory, which you can only do at a slow speed. I'll play at around 60bpm for about 10-15 minutes, and it does much more for my overall touch and technique, than just letting rip and hoping for the best (which is what I used to do)! It's only since working specifically this way that I've made any real honest improvement.

I recommend you find out what it is that's holding you back and then work on that specifically. If that's hard to pinpoint, then maybe post up and vid of you playing or something?

You may also want to check out this little program called Guitar Speed:
Guitar Speed Trainer - Home


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 24, 2012)

^ +1

Going as slow as possible is almost jsut as hard as going as fast as possible. 

It also seems to take less effort when you speed back up once you've played something at 60bpm for an extended period of time.

I do this when trying to learn riffs up to speed as well. 

Some riffs are "busier" than others and if I find I'm having trouble playing a riff up to speed I'll first slow it way down. If I'm still having trouble with it I start removing embellishments from it until I have something still representative of the riff I'm learning but simplified. Once that becomes comfortable I'll slowly add in the parts that were giving me trouble before.

I'm not sure if that approach to riff learning will help you any as it doesn't sound like you were talking about riffs in the OP but you might be able to find some parallel.


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## Vpod111z (Jan 25, 2012)

thx for all the support and help guys i appreciate it  I started practicing this at 80 BPM and i'am going up by 4s each time. As i practice I'am staring at the mirror to make sure my wrist is moving and not my thumb and index. I seem to progressing decently at it for now


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## SirMyghin (Jan 25, 2012)

Vpod111z said:


> thx for all the support and help guys i appreciate it  I started practicing this at 80 BPM and i'am going up by 4s each time. As i practice I'am staring at the mirror to make sure my wrist is moving and not my thumb and index. I seem to progressing decently at it for now



Something I picked up from Troy Stetinas books was recursive practicing, not linear practicing. You play something ,ramp it up say 6 bpm, ramp it down 3, then up 6 again, and so forth. Gives you bursts of easier and harder, and you 'recover' on the 'easier' ones. Not to mention it doubles the practice time  I found that useful overall. As you get second chances so to speak, when it starts getting tough.


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## Maniacal (Jan 26, 2012)

Pick for long periods of time too. Get a timer and spend at least 2 minutes at each tempo, aim for 5 minutes.


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## Solodini (Jan 26, 2012)

Yep, endurance is a much overlooked factor. Consistency and endurance go hand in hand. You may only be playing uberfast for 10 secs at a time in songs but if you're playing a whole set then your muscles will tire out. If you're trained to play fast for 5 minutes then 10 seconds will feel like nothing.


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## Maniacal (Jan 26, 2012)

Exactly!


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## XIII (Jan 26, 2012)

I have recently been looking to change some habits picking wise, I tried Paul's idea with holding the pick (and watching him pick in general) between the thumb and forefinger and the angle he uses to produce the sound he likes. I found it incredibly helpful! I like him cause his picking is so damn fast and clean, a positive influence in building pick speed.

Paul Gilbert Alt Picking The first minute is literally like watching him pleasure himself, but with a guitar in his hands haha


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## Lagtastic (Jan 26, 2012)

Great recommendations here.  I tend to listen to anything Rusty Cooley says involving picking as he is my favorite alternate picker.

I have one small thought to add. Apply this simple thought to your practice, minimize your movements. The less you have to move your pick and fingers on your fretting hand to reach the destination, the faster you will get there. Simple but quite a few people don't think about it that way. Minimize your movements when you want to achieve speed.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

SirMyghin said:


> Something I picked up from Troy Stetinas books was recursive practicing, not linear practicing. You play something ,ramp it up say 6 bpm, ramp it down 3, then up 6 again, and so forth. Gives you bursts of easier and harder, and you 'recover' on the 'easier' ones. Not to mention it doubles the practice time  I found that useful overall. As you get second chances so to speak, when it starts getting tough.


 
Trooch suggests this too. And he can time warp.


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## bey0ndreaz0n (Jan 26, 2012)

+1 for Paul Gilbert.

He inspired me to change how I hold the pick too, and am much better for it. That video is funny as he used to hold the pick backwards, like Tosin.


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## SirMyghin (Jan 26, 2012)

bey0ndreaz0n said:


> +1 for Paul Gilbert.
> 
> He inspired me to change how I hold the pick too, and am much better for it. That video is funny as he used to hold the pick backwards, like Tosin.



I may be a little fuzzy but 'holding it backwards' is often referred to as 'Benson picking', no?


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## groovemasta (Jan 26, 2012)

SirMyghin said:


> I may be a little fuzzy but 'holding it backwards' is often referred to as 'Benson picking', no?



I believe so, I benson pick, i can barely play using the conventional method, not sure if that's a bad thing or not.


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## Konfyouzd (Jan 26, 2012)

Is Benson picking that weird thing Marty Friedman does? His right hand drives me ape shit...


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## groovemasta (Jan 26, 2012)

Like this pretty much, I had always thought it was the normal way


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## November5th (Jan 26, 2012)

Shawn Lane picked in the same manner as Benson, but at warp speed of course.


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## jbrin0tk (Jan 26, 2012)

Interesting points from everybody. Would the same thing be suggested for sweeping faster? Playing things for 1-2 minutes at a speed you can achieve that is somewhat lower than your current max speed? Thanks.


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## Vpod111z (Jan 26, 2012)

I think i just found my main problem. When i am moving to diffrent strings I'am not using my wrist but instead i'm using my elbow since its the only time ur suppose to move it i heard, and that is resulting in the elbow being stiff which is causing my biceps to ache a little. I'am not sure if this is normal. Especially due to the fact that I'm playing 16th notes on extremely slow tempos like 90 BPM lel. I really don't know i think i might just have a problem with stiffness as a whole


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## SirMyghin (Jan 26, 2012)

^ That to me sounds like you are pushing your forearm onto the guitar pretty hard to anchor it really well. I move my whole hand when changing strings too (I don't anchor) so there is some slight forearm movement there, but I do not have your issue.  This is not to say anchoring is a bad thing though, I just don't as I hybrid pick a lot.


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## drgamble (Jan 26, 2012)

Personally, I have noticed that the more I think about what I am doing at fast tempos the worse I play. Seriously, I guess that is what you would call relaxing. If I am playing something fast and try to intellectualize anything I am doing, or get scared that I will screw up, I will screw up. I play my fastest when I don't even think about what I am doing. Focus on mechanic at the slower tempos. You honestly shouldn't speed up until you can play it perfectly at least 10 times at slower tempos. Full speed is not the time to focus technique. Video is better when analyzing full speed technique. When you watch the video, you can sit back and really hear how you sound as well as a view at posture, left hand and right hand posture etc.


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## Blind Theory (Jan 26, 2012)

I've spent countless hours trying to focus on keeping relaxed while playing. It has helped a lot but I still tense up for certain things. Tensing up tires you out and slows you down so it is worth taking the time. Also, you have to ask yourself what aspect of your playing you want to benefit from this. Soloing? Look up burst techniques (burst training, something like that). Riffing/rhythm? Can't help there even though that is all I do I can't solo for shit because my linear picking is mediocre at best but I can play some fucking fast/technical rhythm shit because it is ALL I've focused on for the past 2-3 years (I've been playing 4 and a half years so yeah). If you spend enough time on anything, you will develop your own method and you will improve. Just don't expect to find an exercise from the Gods that will have you shredding out the ass two weeks from now.


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## Vpod111z (Jan 26, 2012)

Blind Theory said:


> I've spent countless hours trying to focus on keeping relaxed while playing. It has helped a lot but I still tense up for certain things. Tensing up tires you out and slows you down so it is worth taking the time. Also, you have to ask yourself what aspect of your playing you want to benefit from this. Soloing? Look up burst techniques (burst training, something like that). Riffing/rhythm? Can't help there even though that is all I do I can't solo for shit because my linear picking is mediocre at best but I can play some fucking fast/technical rhythm shit because it is ALL I've focused on for the past 2-3 years (I've been playing 4 and a half years so yeah). If you spend enough time on anything, you will develop your own method and you will improve. Just don't expect to find an exercise from the Gods that will have you shredding out the ass two weeks from now.


 I would need the picking mostly for soloing and riffing rhythms because lots of guitarists i tend to cover uses these picking techniques and i would always like to have the speed picking for more shreddy songs rather then having just the legato for smooth sounding songs. When i get a hold of my camera i'll just make a vid cause that will be easier to point out mistakes again guy's thanks for all the help and ideas I never expected this post to get so big :O


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## Blind Theory (Jan 26, 2012)

Vpod111z said:


> I would need the picking mostly for soloing and riffing rhythms because lots of guitarists i tend to cover uses these picking techniques and i would always like to have the speed picking for more shreddy songs rather then having just the legato for smooth sounding songs. When i get a hold of my camera i'll just make a vid cause that will be easier to point out mistakes again guy's thanks for all the help and ideas I never expected this post to get so big :O




I want to stress that I do not learn songs from any bands anymore. I feel at a certain point you don't need it anymore, you need to be able to develop your techniques without being guided 100% by someone else's playing. Not sure why but I feel I need to say that.

Alright, the reason I play fast rhythms and technical rhythms like I do is because I've never been amazing at soloing and I was always fascinated by technical rhythms with sick melodies to it. I studied the playing techniques from bands like All Shall Perish, The Black Dahlia Murder, As Blood Runs Black, Heaven Shall Burn and Megadeth. If you listen to all those bands and really pay attention to the rhythm of it and take in what you can then you might have a place to start. Obviously I listed those as my influences because they are MY influences. You may not like them. Pick bands that you love and look at what they are doing. That is how I developed my technique. I literally copied and pasted techniques from all those bands and have been working on blending them to my liking over the past couple years. I'm at a point in my playing where I am very pleased with what I have. I know I have a TON of work to do still and it will never stop but I am pleased with what I have. Just find what you like from top players, steal from them and dedicate yourself to making it your own. Take the time to push yourself and force yourself to progress. Just do it better and better and better, never settle for "maintaining" a skill level. That is no fun.


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## SirMyghin (Jan 27, 2012)

^^ and to counter that, if someone else is employing a technique you would like to master, learning the setting they used it in that inspired you is a valuable tool. Learning other peoples songs will not make you sound just like them, nor are you really being guided. Guitarists do this thing, we steal from all our influences. Chances are if you are listening to a song and hearing something you like, you will steal and adapt it at some point in time. It is the listening that does this, not the learning someone elses song. Nothing wrong with learning other peoples songs, frankly I get tired of playing my own tunes more of the time, it is fun just to rock out.


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## feilong29 (Jan 27, 2012)

Solodini said:


> Did you mean to say this? What you say afterward seems contradictory.



Clearly I meant elbow. But thanks for pointing that out lol!


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## Vpod111z (Jan 28, 2012)

SirMyghin said:


> ^^ and to counter that, if someone else is employing a technique you would like to master, learning the setting they used it in that inspired you is a valuable tool. Learning other peoples songs will not make you sound just like them, nor are you really being guided. Guitarists do this thing, we steal from all our influences. Chances are if you are listening to a song and hearing something you like, you will steal and adapt it at some point in time. It is the listening that does this, not the learning someone elses song. Nothing wrong with learning other peoples songs, frankly I get tired of playing my own tunes more of the time, it is fun just to rock out.


 I obviously don't want to learn it just for covers. Mostly for my own benefit. I find the picking sound quite crunchy and nice and id like to add that to solos every once in a while. I have some original tunes but some of the stuff i plan on writing will make good use of the picking technique


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## SirMyghin (Jan 28, 2012)

Vpod111z said:


> I obviously don't want to learn it just for covers. Mostly for my own benefit. I find the picking sound quite crunchy and nice and id like to add that to solos every once in a while. I have some original tunes but some of the stuff i plan on writing will make good use of the picking technique



I learn covers all the time, it was the other guy trying to make it a high horse thing about not learning other folks stuff


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## ALAN_C (Jan 28, 2012)

I had a same problem with you ,so i can feel what's your feeling now, that harassed me a very long time . I had found many video , many article , asked many people . Finally , i sovled it when i practice guitar someday . 
You can search about Al de meola lessons video , he talk about picking techni , what kind of stlye he using or other stlyle picking techni . Also you can check it out John petrucci and Matt (of Trivium) new video from Roadrunner on youtube , The first chapter they talked about picking techniqe too .
What i suggest you is , Try to tell you mind "Relax" when you picking .it's really work!(at least i'm) , practice one note from slow to fast ,then try to picking some scale(play it slowly too!) , don't hurry to play it fast ! 

That's what i suggest you to do , finally , it needs to conquer by yourself , we just can give you some suggestions to let you to do the right way . 

Cheers,
Alan


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## right_to_rage (Jan 29, 2012)

Start playing exercises with changing note groupings. Learn to alternate pick at different tempos, using different rhythmic values all the time to get used to changing at higher speeds.


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## Solodini (Jan 29, 2012)

Agreed. Chances are that in most situations you won't be playing straight semiquavers the whole time so practise playing varied rhythms at high speeds.


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## Grimbold (Feb 4, 2012)

i would recommend barely moving your fingers at all

the fastest guitarists move their fingers the least

example I can play flight of the bumblebee in under 40 seconds if i'm really trying hard and well warmed up

yet i barely move my fingers AT ALL i lift them up just enough so that the next note can ring


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## Maniacal (Feb 4, 2012)

40 seconds?

I played it in about 1 minute at 210 bpm. 

So you can play it at 315bpm? Video please.


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## Grimbold (Feb 4, 2012)

Maniacal said:


> 40 seconds?
> 
> I played it in about 1 minute at 210 bpm.
> 
> So you can play it at 315bpm? Video please.


by my calculations its more like 500 i think...

100 bars in FotB 40 seconds to play 60 seconds in a minute

and thus the formula is 400/(40/60)
i think?
(i've been confused forever how to calculate bpm)

vid is  (from a while back, i'm a bit cleaner now)


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## Maniacal (Feb 4, 2012)

WOW. You can sure as hell play............


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## Grimbold (Feb 4, 2012)

are you being sarcastic? (thats an honest question not a troll thing) what a lot of people fail to understand is that i don't spend my days wanking FotB all the time but i had played it so much as a warm up song i became really fast at it

so really regular practice is all you need to be fast


also
disclaimer: i am fully aware my FotB is not at all musical...


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