# Building a sense of melody



## HammerAndSickle (Jul 9, 2008)

Hey all. This is a very personal subject to me, as it pretty much dictates my future in music >.> so I'd appreciate any help you guys can give me. I've been playing for about 4 years now. I take Guitar classes at the high school, and I'm going into Guitar IV for my senior year (the highest level we offer). I'm saying this just to give you a framework for my level of experience and skill. The school's guitar classes don't really teach anything by way of composition, we just learn chords and classic rock songs, really.

I've recently started trying to write some music. The kind of music I like and the kind that I want to make myself is melodic 'shred'. Steve Vai is my all-time favorite musician, and his music has touched me in a more profound way than anything else in my life. Joe Satriani, Paul Gilbert, John Petrucci, Francesco Fareri... these are all my guitar idols. Now, I understand that some people view or idolize these musicians solely as pinnacles of technique, speed, or accuracy, but to me that's not what I aspire to. A fast run doesn't impress me, nor sweeps at 200 bpm, nor crazy noises with a whammy bar. They're fun, and the speed and technique make it rock, but what interests me when I listen to this music is the melody.

Steve Vai, for instance. All of his song structures are very simple. The iconic For the Love of God basically just has arpeggiated chord backing for the majority of its run time. Whispering a Prayer also does. They aren't exactly crazily extended chords, either, or ridiculous inversions. They don't move fast, they repeat fairly constantly, and altogether those arpeggio sections alone are mundane. Other songs base around an uptempo riff, which repeats for the majority of the song. But over such a backing Steve manages to conjure such sweet melodies. They, too, are relatively simple. At my level of experience I can play the majority of Vai's songs, the melody lines exempting the solos at least XD. But they still touch me as being remarkable melodies. There are eight notes in the melody of Whispering a Prayer. The rest of the song consists of him variating this theme, or expanding upon it in the solo. Again, I'm trying to stress that I'm not interested in the musicality or technique involved in his solos. I'm only asking about the melodic structure.

Through my own research I've learned quite a bit of theory. More than anyone else I know, at least, and they've taken classes on it in school while I havent. I know the major scale and all its modes in every key. I know how to count most basic time signatures. I know what chords correspond to what scales, what I should play over what progressions, what notes I can add to give different flavor without sounding "out"... but I have no sense of melody.

I've been playing over backing tracks of all kinds, ones I record of a simple riff or chord progression, MIDI sequences, rhythm sections to songs, and I've been trying to create melody lines over top of them, improvising/soloing if you will. My problem is everything I play sounds like random notes. I know that the riff I wrote is in E phrygian. (Simple E/F/G/B power chords) I can play Phrygian over it, if I'm careful to avoid the ii chord I can play E aeolian, if I want to add a touch of dissonance I can play E phrygian dominant/A harmonic minor. E pentatonic minor would work. C major shapes/D dorian shapes/F lydian shapes/G mixolydian shapes/A aeolian shapes/B locrian shapes... See? I know my theory. They all refer to similar collections of notes, and similar fretboard positions. 

My problem is, anything I play sounds like random notes. I have no scope of melody when I solo or improvise. When I try to stick strictly to the scale, it sounds boring and uninspired: I tend to just run up and down in different speeds or stick to a dominant interval (in the phrygian riff, tonic to b2). When I try to experiment outside of the scale it still sounds like up-down-up-down, but now it sounds out of place over the riff even though it should be close enough not to. Whether it's a blues, jazz, metal, rock, _bluegrass_ progression: I still never sound good.

Mainly I'm asking how do you reccomend I start to develop a sense of melody? They don't have to be complex or technical, I just want to find melodies that are vocal and organic.


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## lobee (Jul 9, 2008)

Try thinking up a melody in your head and transfer it to guitar instead of trying to improvise it as you go. This is the only way I am able to get something I like rather than "random notes" like you said. There may be better ways but this works for me.


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## Brendan G (Jul 9, 2008)

What I would do is listen to the backing track, then think of a melody that sounds good, then figure it out, then go beyond backing tracks and come up with melodic songs. Also since you already have the knowledge, play the scales and modes and think about which mood it gives off and play accordingly.


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## Desecrated (Jul 10, 2008)

Fux - the study of counterpoint and jeppesen - counterpoint. 

Read them in that order, they both talk about voice-leading melody and harmony.


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## darren (Jul 10, 2008)

Instead of thinking like a guitarist (or a technician with all those scales and modes), think like a vocalist and "sing" the part in your head.


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## Scali (Jul 10, 2008)

darren said:


> Instead of thinking like a guitarist (or a technician with all those scales and modes), think like a vocalist and "sing" the part in your head.


 
Exactly.
I think with all that theory, chords, scales etc, you're missing the point.
You can't learn melody from a book. You have to be creative, rely on your intuition. That's the reason why nobody sounds quite like Vai. You can't get Vai's intuition for melody from a book.

It's good to know how music is structured, how notes, chords etc can harmonize, what intervals sound like, and all that... But you have to realize that all this music theory is after-the-fact. Someone was experimenting and found that these things sound good before it became a part of music theory. So that shows that creativity comes first, and theory comes later.

I think I have developed a reasonable sense of melody over the years... What I tended to do was just turn on the radio or such, and try to play along. First I'd try to copy the vocal melodies or the main theme of the song, then I'd try to create variations on it.
I think you develop a sense of melody in the way of a singer this way, you'll develop a feel for what kind of note sequences/intervals would sound good as a lead melody. And then you can make your guitar the 'singer' in the music.


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## Desecrated (Jul 10, 2008)

Scali said:


> Exactly.
> I think with all that theory, chords, scales etc, you're missing the point.
> You can't learn melody from a book. You have to be creative, rely on your intuition. That's the reason why nobody sounds quite like Vai. You can't get Vai's intuition for melody from a book.
> 
> ...



If he had a natural sense of melody, he wouldn't be asking for help. 
There are certain rule to why a melody sounds good, If you learn them and practice them everyday you can develop a good sense of melody in the same sense that you can develop a good sense of rhythm or a good pitch  
And later break free from these rules and find your own way of melody.


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## stubhead (Jul 10, 2008)

Robert Jourdain: _Music, The Brain, and Ecstasy_ is a great book. He actually lays out some "rules" and commonalities for melodies that have caused people to _remember_ them. Sure, rules are made to be broken - which is why so much of the weird-sounding, "angular", "creative" fusion music sucked... from the Amazon review:


> Choosing examples eclectically, from Henry Mancini's "The Pink Panther" to Mozart, Stravinsky and Duke Ellington, he explores how, when we compose, perform or listen to music, the brain assembles musical devices, patterns and harmonies into vast, meaningful hierarchies of sound. He also offers tantalizing if inevitably unsatisfying answers to such age-old enigmas as what makes a great melody or how music elicits emotions and gives pleasure.



Thinking big, and thinking thematically, is crucial - 

*Set the guitar down and LISTEN!* 

Listen to classical music, _take notes_ on sequencing, the use of repetition, the use of smaller themes recast in different scales & modes. Learn your ten favorite guitar solos, half-assed is plenty good enough, but then try and figure out _why_ you like them - why did the dude choose _that_ note, _then_? (Hint: end a phrase on a 2nd, 4th, 6th or 7th if it's leading to the next phrase, end on a 1st, 3rd or 5th if it's the conclusion of a thought).

This is a huge subject, my own personal interest exactly - what _are_ the schemes and methods that great musicians use to generate melody? I ranted enough before in the following thread, so I'm not gonna repeat it all:

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/music-theory-lessons-techniques/45646-help-solo-strategies.html


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## darren (Jul 10, 2008)

Another thing i was thinking would help is to listen to _non-guitar-based[/] music. Vocal jazz, 1950s crooners, Esquivel, Chet Baker, Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, John Coltrane, Yo-Yo Ma, Stéphane Grappelli, even Indian ragas, asian music... if it has a melody, listen to it over and over until the melodies are imprinted on your brain. Then when it comes time for you to play melodically, you'll have a vast mental library of melodic combinations that sound good, and you can start churning them out in your own way.

It's good to know a lot of theory (which i don't... a personal failing) but at some point, you just have to forget it all and just play. If you have to think about it too much, you're not going to get that emotion in your playing._


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## Drew (Jul 10, 2008)

darren said:


> Instead of thinking like a guitarist (or a technician with all those scales and modes), think like a vocalist and "sing" the part in your head.



 

Couple related pointers - iif you're writing/recording a track, lay down the chord changes, and just listen back to them for a while kind of humming along. When you find something that fits, learn it on guitar. I've completely re-thought solos after doing this. 

Also, as they say, "Good composers create; great composers steal." Don't be afraid to rework a pop vocal line as a guitar melody line. It's not plagarism if you put your own stamp on it. The song of mine that seems to be everyone's favorite, "Alien Love Child," started off initially as an "echo," I guess, of the opening vocal line to Moby's "South Side." The finished product doesn't sound very much like that, true, but it got the ball rolling. 

Finally, Add David Gilmour and Neil Zaza to your list of influences - you'll thank me.


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## Drew (Jul 10, 2008)

Also, sometime, try killing the lights, lighting a candle or something, and just playing melody lines with your eyes closed, unaccompanied. Don't focus on technique or speed - in fact, focus on NOT relying on technique or speed - and just think about the music. 

Likewise, try transcribing a few vocal lines for lead guitar. For bonus points, after you do, try working on your phrasing to mimic the vocal inflection - slides, pre-bends, hit-ons and pull-offs, whammy bar dips, controlled vibrato, bends, volume and tone knob work, etc. I'll warn you, this shit is HARD.


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## HammerAndSickle (Jul 10, 2008)

Thanks a lot, everyone. I like a lot of the ideas presented here. Thinking vocally seems to be a great idea: I think that if I can get a theme, I have the necessary musical "tools" to make it a song. There are lots of ideas I've had about variations and modulations, but I've never had the ability to make a theme to tweak XD

And Drew, could you recommend me some good Gilmour tracks to study? I was the biggest poser a few years ago, wearing all the classic rock T-shirts and such, but I never really got into Pink Floyd beyond DSotM.


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## Durero (Jul 10, 2008)

I really like and completely agree with Darren's and Drew's posts and everyone who's emphasizing singing along and developing melodic ideas without your fingers on the guitar. I struggled for years trying to develop any sense of melody in my playing and one of the most helpful things I practiced was to improvise along with backing tracks while very strictly not allowing my fingers to play a single not without my voice singing or humming that note first. It's so easy to fall back into rote licks but the idea is to turn the tables on your fingers and bring them under control so that every note you play is what your head/heart wants to hear.

Speaking of control, Marty Friedman's Melodic Control video is essential viewing in my opinion. Certainly helped me a lot.


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## TonalArchitect (Jul 10, 2008)

There is, I believe, one essential ingredient missing: inspiration. 
I find that is is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible, to create satisfying music- especially the "organic" vocal melodies you desire- by just playing. The results are often... lacking. 

Here are some solutions: 
1. Go read the interview with Bulb on this site and read what he says about songwriting. 

2. Form an idea of what you want to create, more detailed than a "singable melody." This is difficult to describe, but it's kind of like envisioning a very vague "outline" of the song. This may or may not include structural elements (e.g. "verse melody, chorus, bridge," etc.) or it may have a focus on timbre or texture (e.g. "soft here, distorted arpeggios there, some overdubbed clean tracks over here").

3. (As previously mentioned) Put down yer guitar and sing or hum the new melody.

4. Listen to music which you find exciting, particularly, but not exclusively, in the style you wish to emulate, and hope for some inspiration. 

5. Read. Novels, literature (read: "famous stuff they force you to read at school"), poetry, liner notes, artist interviews, whatever you enjoy. 

6. Watch movies, at the cinema or what you own at home, 'tis better without commercial interruption. Watch ancient movies from long ago (like on Turner Classic Movies): old horror movies, film noir, ridiculous musicals, whatever you prefer. Modern offbeat independent films may also serve you well. Oh... and television may not be as inspiring. . . .

7. If you dig them, play video games. If they inspire you ("I could write a cool theme for this"), or you like their music, then spending some time with them can be beneficial. I would tend to exclude multiplayer games, especially those with chat, but hey to each their own.

8. Go to Chops from Hell Guitar Site DO NOT click on the licks, NOT A SINGLE ONE; we're on a mission, dammit. Look up articles on pre-composition. Read some of Tom Hess's stuff. Search for words, not notes.

9. Get Guitar Pro, or Power Tab if you must, and compose AWAY from the instrument. Guitar Pro offers other voices, even the crappy midi ones, and as such I recommend it. I am too ignorant to know whether Power Tab offers such capacity or not, so check it out. 
9a Go over to mysongbook.com and download some of their compositions, get some ideas.
9b While you're at it, go to the competitions section and download the Skeleton Competition templates and attempt to compose under them. Musical freedom is exquisite, but sometimes placing restraints can actually bring forth music that you didn't know was there. 

And If you just _must _cling to that damn fool guitar ,

10. If you've the desire, transcribe music. Any music will do, but go with something in which you are interested. Jazz and Ragas will do you no damn good if there's no intrinsic motivation for you to sit through the piece. (Inspiration can come from the familiar as well as the exotic. But Jazz and Indian music are sexy.) 

11. Improvise with some melodies which you love or by which you are intrigued and mess around with them. Remember that jazz improvisation is still based around the "head." (I bet even free jazzers have _some _idea of what they're going to play.)

12. Feel emotions, really tap into them deep down and let them create your music as you improvise. (This can also be done during extended composition.)

I could probably list more stuff, but I'm winded. . . .


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## Scali (Jul 11, 2008)

Yes, 12. feeling emotions...
I take that quite literally. When I want to add vibrato to an emotional melody, I strangle the neck of my guitar like I would strangle an unfaithful woman


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## GoaT (Jul 16, 2008)

Bloody top thread. I will take a lot from the advise found here. That idea of humming and playing at the same time is brilliant! Why hell didn't I think of that earlier.

I have problems writing from theory. I am an Amiga tracker from way back and if I get on my qwerty keyboard with a good sample/vst I can write freely, but on guitar it's always meaningless scale walks/runs and/or restructured, reordered versions of the 10,000 licks that are imprinted on my fingers. Whenever I analyse guitar melodies/solos I really like, I find very little in a good theoretical solution to what sounds good, and what doesn't. I find that some of my favourite melodies break the rules and others are straight by the book, and sometimes both in the same minute of music. 

Counterpoint really interests me. I listen to Infected Mushroom (Psytrance+ - where the + can be anything from rock to classical music) and they are what I think of when I think of counterpoint. They have a lot of songs that open with a melody, progress over 4 minutes to what you think is a melody miles away from the opening, and then somewhere near the end they will superimpose the opening melody back over the current one and you realise 'oh, wow, it fits'. Sometimes they will impose 3 layers, corresponding to the current melody, one from somewhere in the middle of the song, and the opening melody all at once, and it always works brilliantly, so I am figuring they have mastered the rules of counterpoint. I will get my hands on those 2 books mentioned. Maybe then my intros will actually make sense in the bigger picture rather than being just some cool opening I decided to glue onto the song which it doesn't conflict the most with.


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## SnowfaLL (Jul 20, 2008)

Great thread. Im in the same position kinda as the OP, well I was like 3 months ago, Been working on it lately, 

I definately recommend the singing/humming while you play, Its working wonders for me. Its kinda annoying, but it works hah.

And one other good piece of advice I found, Go through your scales and modes using the normal exercise things, such as Jumping 3rds, Jumping 4ths, Come up with your own combinations of notes, like playing 1 4 2 3 2 5 3 4 3 6 4 5, or figure out random patterns and just go to work. It might not seem like you are working on melody, but I find it lets you clear your mind for a good 20 minutes, warm up your fingers, and your mind might eventually wander off to a melody, which is what I usually do afew awhile of doing this. Its like biting a piece of bread before testing wine, or whatever they do to reset their tastebuds.

Of course, Listen and watch alot of Marty Friedman. He is the king of melody/everything really.. A+ recommendation on his vhs Melodic Control, whoever mentioned it.

Thats the one thing im dissapointed with my college not having, is a Composition class, cause all this theory is nothing without that. But I guess my course is based towards being a session Jazz guy, unfortunately.


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## Lucky Seven (Jul 20, 2008)

Listen to some of John Petrucci's melodic slow solos, like in Octavarium.

Listen to Michael Schenker stuff like UFO and MSG.

Marty Friedman's "Dragon's Kiss" and "Loudspeaker" are awesome.

Scorpion's Matthias Jabs has some incredibly melodic lead as well.


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## SnowfaLL (Jul 20, 2008)

Listen to more pop bands too.. Theres a reason they are on the top radio charts, and video charts, and altho its half pushed by media, They are catchy songs. Catchy songs = great hooks = great rememberable melodies.


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## Desecrated (Jul 20, 2008)

Oi I was just about to bump this, anyway; 

I sat down by the piano today and played some blues when I realized how easy it was to write a melodic line in pentatonic scales. you might want to try that. A scale with less options might help you to focus better.


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## Scali (Jul 20, 2008)

Yes, I tend to use pentatonics or arpeggios as a basis for melodic ideas. The larger intervals sound more 'interesting' than just going up or down a major or minor scale.
I then add notes from a diatonic or chromatic scale to 'smooth things over'.


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## Desecrated (Jul 20, 2008)

Scali said:


> Yes, I tend to use pentatonics or arpeggios as a basis for melodic ideas. The larger intervals sound more 'interesting' than just going up or down a major or minor scale.
> I then add notes from a diatonic or chromatic scale to 'smooth things over'.



That's a good approach, I've tried the same with good results. It might sound a little jazzy at first but you'll get the hang of it.


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## stubhead (Jul 21, 2008)

Creating, and releasing, tension are at the heart of interesting music, I think. To that end, playing slowly, and _not_ playing, can be really useful. If you play a brief flurry of notes - _"here's the guitar solo"_ - then you _stop_ playing, the human mind will naturally think, _"What's next?"_ Then, you answer that. Play slow for a bit, and people will crave fast - and vice-versa. This is _sort of_ called phrasing, but that's a big subject too - structuring ideas so as to keep people on the edge. It's sort of, like, commas - or dashes - when you write... 

Now this is going to sound simpleminded, but:

After you play one note, you have to play another. Then, another after that. If you play eight or ten notes, and they're not very interesting - *WHY* not? Are you choosing really predictable, boring notes, or are you just playing them like limp drooly little blobs? Some of the most memorable melodies in the world are slow - quarter notes, half notes only.... listen to Jeff Beck. He can take the most trite, ordinary melody and *crank* it with the inflections he puts on it. He'll slide into notes, whammy into them, play soft notes interspersed with loud ones, pick a fingered series that will end on a big loud harmonic... Steve Morse and Eric Johnson are also great at contrast _within_ a solo. If you just drool on and on and every note _sounds_ the same as the last one, who cares?

YouTube - Jeff Beck - Where Were You

YouTube - Jeff Beck - A Day in the Life (Crossroads 2007)

You don't have to like the tune, just listen to the _inflections_ - the differences between the notes.  Can you learn something? 

One more - if you listen carefully, you'll hear that great musicians are always speeding up and slowing down within licks. OF COURSE you have to learn to play _on_ the beat in order to be good at playing _off_ the beat. But it's worth practicing behind and ahead too - this stuff makes or breaks a blues guitarist. Listen to Miles Davis - he just couldn't _stand_ to play a song straight.... Paul Gilbert is a master at controlling his speed for tension-inducing purposes. (Beck is way behind at some points on the Beatles tune above). This stuff is _intentional_ too, not random inspiration. Try playing a lick too slow, edging up to the last note and you're behind, the human brain is thinking _"Will he make it! Won't he?!?"_  - then BANG - you hit the last note spot on. Tension and release, that.


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## right_to_rage (Jul 21, 2008)

Yeah, I'd say sing over it, write it down, play the rhythm with your hands, just be creative in anyway you can with the melody and it should come out. Do the jigsaw method where you keep changing things until you have a melody that works. Most of the time melody making requires practice at first and some creative work. Honestly just hack away at it and just try to get better by having a goal.


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## budda (Jul 21, 2008)

i'd also like to suggest listening to the blues!!!

this thread is great


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