# Perfect Intonation on an 8 String?



## GuitarSamurai (Apr 1, 2015)

Is perfect intonation impossible without going 30 scale on an 8 string? 

I have a Strandberg Boden 8 and sent it for a setup locally and when I got it back the lowest string was a bit sharp throughout the neck starting at the 1st fret. It is currently strung with a Kalium .90 on the lowest string and tuned to E. The intonation is as far back as it will go. Intonation seems good with F# and a .79 but if I tune down to E it is unusable.

I know a lot of people play 27 scale 8 strings and tune to E and it seems like they would have issues before a 28 scale. I would hate to think all of those guys have intonation issues. Any thoughts on this or any tips? Would love to tune down to E but definitely not looking to just play the string open or out of tune.


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## MannyMoonjava (Apr 1, 2015)

My 2228 is pretty close to perfect, with the low E beeing the exception, but its still pretty much perfect. If i play a piece higher than the 12th fret, I usually retune for that purpose just to be sure.


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## metaljon (Apr 1, 2015)

GuitarSamurai said:


> Is perfect intonation impossible without going 30 scale on an 8 string?
> 
> I have a Strandberg Boden 8 and sent it for a setup locally and when I got it back the lowest string was a bit sharp throughout the neck starting at the 1st fret. It is currently strung with a Kalium .90 on the lowest string and tuned to E. The intonation is as far back as it will go. Intonation seems good with F# and a .79 but if I tune down to E it is unusable.
> 
> I know a lot of people play 27 scale 8 strings and tune to E and it seems like they would have issues before a 28 scale. I would hate to think all of those guys have intonation issues. Any thoughts on this or any tips? Would love to tune down to E but definitely not looking to just play the string open or out of tune.


In before, "A guitar is never completely in tune."

That being said, provided you have a scale long enough to supply adequate tension for all the strings, intonation is less a function of scale length but more of the saddle and nut placement, frets, neck, etc. The length of scales and placement of frets is really just arithmetic--purely formulaic. But the build of the guitar to these exact specs is where the rubber meets the road.

What scale length do you currently have that's not working for that Kalium .90? At even 27" you should have close to 20 lbs. of tension. What's your action like? Do you get a lot of buzzing when you fret the string? That'll throw things off. Time to add some neck relief if that's the case.

But in general, F#1 is a tough note for guitars in the first place, let alone E1. These are bass notes. You need adequate scale if you want these notes to really work for you.


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## GuitarSamurai (Apr 1, 2015)

It is fanned 26.5 to 28 scale. Action seems good not super low but not real high either there isn't any buzzing issues right now. Have tried messing with the action on that E string though and didn't seem to really remedy the issue.

Actually dropped the guitar off for setup because it was buzzing on the low B string real bad but neck adjustment fixed that it seems.


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## Alex Kenivel (Apr 1, 2015)

Well if you've sent it for a setup, then I'm sure they'd intonate it the best they can for you. if you're really looking for perfect intonation then you should look up true temperament frets. I don't think I've seen a TT FF guitar!


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## bostjan (Apr 1, 2015)

You might have to lower your action, use thinner strings or tune up.

Personally, I'd like to see all adjustable bridges have more room for adjustment, particularly on the lower strings. I've seen a lot of guitars come in for setup and there was no way to even get the low E on a six string to intonate properly with the strings the customer wanted. I don't know if manufacturers tend to put the bridges further up than they ought to or if it's purely and issue of adjustment range. I only ever remember once when I faced the opposite problem on the high E.

Maybe a slightly slanted bridge would help.


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## GuitarSamurai (Apr 1, 2015)

Intonation is good on all the other strings just not on that 8th string. Intonation is decent when that string is tuned up a step to F# though. Not expecting perfect intonation but don't want to sound like an out of tune mess either lol.

I know Strandberg offered True Temperment frets fanned frets. But I don't think it is necessarily that though as it is sharp starting at the 1st fret and consistently out of tune throughout the rest of the fretboard on that string.


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## bostjan (Apr 1, 2015)

It seems to be a meme here as of late, but True Temperament is something completely different. It's a tuning system, not a hardware fix.


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## GuitarSamurai (Apr 1, 2015)

Was running .08 .11 .15 .22 .29 .41 .59 .90 . Have a .79 on there now though for the F#.

I like having light tension for lead work but hate floppy low strings. May just be stuck with F# just figured the 28 scale would be enough to make intonation work tuned to drop E. 

Just confused how guys are getting 27 scale work with intonation but I can't get 28 to work lol.


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## GunpointMetal (Apr 1, 2015)

I had lots of intonation issues with an 82 in E at 28". Dropped it to a 79 and now I can get it pretty spot on at the octave, but it creeps a little above the the 17th fret.


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## Hollowway (Apr 1, 2015)

Is it possible to nudge the bridge saddle back a little? I'm guessing no, based on what I've seen with the strandies, but figured I'd ask. The intonation can't be sharp all over the neck. If that was the case you could just tune the string a little flatter. Typically intonation issues manifest as being in tune in one area, and progressively out of tune farther away from that point. So one possible solution would be for you to only play that 8th string in the low frets, and play notes higher than that then translate them to the 7th or 6th string.


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## GuitarSamurai (Apr 1, 2015)

Right now the saddle is as far back as it will go to the point where the screw holding the saddle in place is nudged up against it. 

I am thinking its probably the string being too large but idk. Think I'll just stick to F# .


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## Explorer (Apr 1, 2015)

I bottomed out in terms of saddle movement before I had my instruments perfectly intonated.

I cut down a spring, and got a little more movement, and a bit of improvement. Still not perfect, so I considered grinding off part of the saddle end where the screw threads in, to gain a few millimeters more for movement. 

Then I noticed a shorter-than-normal bridge saddle on the Schecter instruments using a Hipshot bridge. I wrote an email to Hipshot, and learned that you can buy the short saddles directly from them.

I replaced the two lowest saddles on my various 8-strings, and had no problem perfectly intonating down to Ab0 at 28.625" and Bb0 at 25.5". 

Short answer: If you can move the bridge saddle to the correct location, yes, you can get perfect intonation on an 8-string.


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## vick1000 (Apr 1, 2015)

Crappy strings, or unwinding strings to fit smaller machine heads, can cause intonation issues.


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## Dayn (Apr 1, 2015)

Maybe you're simply fretting too hard? It's a bigger string at a lower tension, it's so much easier to simply fret it a bit too hard and make it go sharp.

On my RG2228 (27") I use a Kalium .090 for E. Intonates as close to perfect as a guitar can possibly be. There's even some travel room still left.

When I used other string brands, there wasn't enough room to move the saddle back. D'Addario, GHS... even at .080 I didn't have enough room. A Kalium .090 though, while being bigger, was more flexible. So it intonated far better and didn't act like a rod.

Apart from some strange hardware issue, the only other thing I can think of is perhaps your string isn't sitting entirely properly over the nut or saddle? In my locking saddle I've sometimes had that problem where it was sticking up OVER the saddle instead of lying across it. But from what I can tell from Strandberg hardware, that shouldn't be a problem...

So if you have the scale and are using Kalium strings, it's either not enough room for your saddle to be moved back, or you're fretting too hard. That's my guess, anyway. Not sure what you can do about the saddle issue on a Strandberg.


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## Dominoes282 (Apr 1, 2015)

DC800 with good strings (.80's) and torquing the saddle back a bit is pretty on point. That's with a 27" scale so it can be done.


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## DeadSuspect (Apr 2, 2015)

I'd lower the action. Nut and bridge saddle positioning is very important for intonation, but if I were you, I'd lower the action. I have 2 custom made guitars: A 6-string and an 8-string. 

The 8-string is fanned fret, and I love the beast, and although I know that a guitar will "never be perfectly in tune" I do get a pretty good intonation up to the fretboard. why? no action on my neck. I do have a zero fret on both of them, to guarantee the "minimal" string height from the frets, but as far as action, NONE! The same applies for my 6-string. 

It's not a fanned freted guitar but the intonation is top notch! No True temperament needed.
Just a a correct nut and saddle positioning, a zero fret and no action on my neck at all.

And I'm loving it! Give it a try...


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## crg123 (Apr 2, 2015)

Explorer said:


> ... Then I noticed a shorter-than-normal bridge saddle on the Schecter instruments using a Hipshot bridge. I wrote an email to Hipshot, and learned that you can buy the short saddles directly from them.
> 
> I replaced the two lowest saddles on my various 8-strings, and had no problem perfectly intonating down to Ab0 at 28.625" and Bb0 at 25.5".



This. I do this with my low tuned 7's and my 8 string. I helps a lot.


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## DancingCloseToU (Apr 2, 2015)

Alex Kenivel said:


> ...I don't think I've seen a TT FF guitar!



...I just had to, this thing is sick.


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## GuitarSamurai (Apr 3, 2015)

Thank you everyone for all the feedback. 

I actually spoke with Ola regarding this, he is going to be sending me a modified base plate to where I can bring the saddle back a little farther. I think that will get things where they need to be. It is probably due to it being a larger than usual string gauge on the low side.


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## Alex Kenivel (Apr 3, 2015)

DancingCloseToU said:


> ...I just had to, this thing is sick.



Now I've seen it all. I'm ready to die a happy man


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## sevenstringj (Apr 4, 2015)

GuitarSamurai said:


> Thank you everyone for all the feedback.
> 
> I actually spoke with Ola regarding this, he is going to be sending me a modified base plate to where I can bring the saddle back a little farther. I think that will get things where they need to be. It is probably due to it being a larger than usual string gauge on the low side.



Sounds cool, but did you try another .090? That's headless, so you gotta clamp the string at one end, right? Clamping can fuçk up a really thick string. I have an 8-string Floyd, and I've had strings of several brands with out-of-whack intonation and no more room left. Then put a fresh string on, and it's fine with room to spare.

Side note: Hipshot needs to make an 8-string contour trem.


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## GuitarSamurai (Apr 5, 2015)

Tried 2 different 90 an older one and a newer one similar intonation issues I do have another new one I haven't tried yet though. The .79 seems to be holding intonation well though. 

Would love to try a fanned fret kahler lol on the trem topic. Need one of those and a steinberger transtrem in my life right now.


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## Haun (Apr 5, 2015)

I present to you, the Apple Horn 8. Complete with TT frets and a floyd rose 8 string bridge.
(Warning! Indcredible shredding ablities and in-depth understanding of Indian rythm/tonality may not be included)


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## vick1000 (Apr 7, 2015)

Strange, when ever I go up in gauge, I usually have to shorten the string. I would suggest using a "name brand" string, see if that works.


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## Toejam (Apr 10, 2015)

Dominoes282 said:


> DC800 with good strings (.80's) and torquing the saddle back a bit is pretty on point. That's with a 27" scale so it can be done.



My DC800 came with an 80 low F# and was fine (I was told it was a LaBella). When I eventually put new strings on it, I got a LaBella, but it was a tiny bit off intonating, so I ordered a short saddle from Hipshot and everything is right with the world again using an 80 or 82.


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