# Dingwall pickups for SR405EQM?



## WintermintP (Jul 11, 2018)

Hi

So I found out that there are some official Dingwall pickups that are available for sale in Bartolini pickup shape as well as a few other shapes, but I've been wondering whether there are any of the Dingwall pickups available that can fit in the SR405EQM without having to route the bass or I should look into getting a different bass altogether, and in the latter case, which 5-string bass that's budget friendly.

The main reason why I'm asking this question is because while the bass plays great, I'm tired of the dull tone that the bass has. I have this new Neural DSP Darkglass plugin, which is an official plugin version of the Darkglass B7K Ultra, but regardless of what I do, I can't seem to get the tone I'm really looking for.

This is the bass tone I've been trying to achieve:




Maybe I should look into buying a different brand of strings instead (but they're D'Addario 55-110 + 145 and strings at those gauges are hard to come by with other brands, especially the 145; and Kalium is not an option because they're expensive as hell and I live in Canada)? Maybe I should try to really focus on the tone stack of the plugin better (but I really can't seem to get that attack and the strings are actually quite new)? Honestly, though, I really wish I could just buy a Dingwall bass instead but they cost like, over $3K here in Canada (counting taxes and such) and the only used ones I found were on Reverb and they cost just as much as well, and because of how I write a lot of the bass parts I really need a 5-string bass, which doesn't help the situation either, and due to the oligopoly where I live, the markup in everything around here is disastrously huge...

Maybe I really should look into getting a different bass that's not a Dingwall? I have no clue how I can get that exact tone on a budget, though, and I've been looking for so many ways to try and prepare $3K to buy a Dingwall bass but saving up is not an option due to even the living expenses alone costing even more than an arm and a leg at this point (I'm *not* overexaggerating), so the only other option is to look into those grants, but there doesn't seem to be one available for equipment purchases. This is where everyone would say to get a job, but that's not an option either due to my disabilities.

WintermintP


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## Masoo2 (Jul 11, 2018)

Can you give an example of your DI tone, processed tone, and how you have your bass knobs setup?


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## lewis (Jul 12, 2018)

just download loki bass from SOlemn tones haha. The default dingwall bass sound is exactly this tone you are after.


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## dax21 (Jul 12, 2018)

Boost the shit out of high mids and highs, use a compressor as well to give it that tight snappy feel. 
99% of that sound is in the neck scale length, nothing sounds like a Dingwall because of that exact reason.


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## WintermintP (Jul 12, 2018)

Masoo2 said:


> Can you give an example of your DI tone, processed tone, and how you have your bass knobs setup?


It's going to take a while, but I will get to that in a moment.



lewis said:


> just download loki bass from SOlemn tones haha. The default dingwall bass sound is exactly this tone you are after.


I thought about that too, but one, the Default bass tone actually lacks the treble and bite I'm after so... no. Also, I talked with Maxime regarding the plugin because the low G actually sounds like triplets because one of the samples was louder than that of the rest, so he's in the middle of fixing that. Another problem with the Loki Bass plugin is that while the really low notes can really work, anything starting from the middle of its range and above will just lose itself in the mix, and that's all the more of a dealbreaker.

I actually have used the Loki Bass in this mix:




dax21 said:


> Boost the shit out of high mids and highs, use a compressor as well to give it that tight snappy feel.
> 99% of that sound is in the neck scale length, nothing sounds like a Dingwall because of that exact reason.


I initially thought so myself, but that doesn't make sense, as I know of a bunch of other multiscale basses and a bunch of other basses that have the same scale length as that of a Dingwall, but even those basses don't sound remotely close to the Dingwall, so I can't help but be convinced that the majority of the sound is from the Dingwall pickups themselves.

Also, to remind all of you, I actually have the Darkglass B7K Ultra in plugin form, so the real problem is the bass itself, as all of the other angles are already covered. The real problem is to just figure out how to get the bass to have that sharp attack and good bite.

WintermintP


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## lewis (Jul 12, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> It's going to take a while, but I will get to that in a moment.
> 
> 
> I thought about that too, but one, the Default bass tone actually lacks the treble and bite I'm after so... no. Also, I talked with Maxime regarding the plugin because the low G actually sounds like triplets because one of the samples was louder than that of the rest, so he's in the middle of fixing that. Another problem with the Loki Bass plugin is that while the really low notes can really work, anything starting from the middle of its range and above will just lose itself in the mix, and that's all the more of a dealbreaker.
> ...



and what happens in Loki when you crank the high knob and cut some mids etc?


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## Beheroth (Jul 12, 2018)

bartolini are pretty dark pickups with tons of low mid, try cutting lowmids at 250~500Hz and boost around 1,5K~2Khz or higher. Also play with the grunt and attack switch.

putting dingwall pu in your bass won't turn it into a dingwall, that tone come from the scale length and the pickup placement. try using the bridge pickup only


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## WintermintP (Jul 12, 2018)

lewis said:


> and what happens in Loki when you crank the high knob and cut some mids etc?



That video *was* with the Loki's High knob cranked all the way up. The treble was craked up quite a bit on the B7K as well.



Beheroth said:


> bartolini are pretty dark pickups with tons of low mid, try cutting lowmids at 250~500Hz and boost around 1,5K~2Khz or higher. Also play with the grunt and attack switch.


I have no clue if my bass has Bartolinis actually. If they do, I should be able to replace the pickups with the Dingwall, shouldn't I?

Yeap, I was right, they're not Bartolini. They're a brand called PowerSpan.

These guys at Ibanez advertised the pickups to have more powerful highs. I can't help but call that bollocks.



Beheroth said:


> putting dingwall pu in your bass won't turn it into a dingwall, that tone come from the scale length and the pickup placement. try using the bridge pickup only



They won't turn it into a Dingwall, but they might get me some better treble, so I thought I should at least give it a try.

WintermintP


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## lewis (Jul 12, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> That video *was* with the Loki's High knob cranked all the way up. The treble was craked up quite a bit on the B7K as well.
> 
> 
> I have no clue if my bass has Bartolinis actually. If they do, I should be able to replace the pickups with the Dingwall, shouldn't I?
> ...



I mean what about just doing the age old thing of boosting grindy/twangy frequencies on an EQ plugin after an instance of Loki?
Other than that, I really cant help you im afraid.

The TONE that I like is what Loki seems to nail right out the box so Im happy.


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## Masoo2 (Jul 12, 2018)

What else are you doing to supplement the Darkglass plugin?

Cause fyi none of those examples you linked are raw B7K. Both are running through processors (Axe FX and Zoom B3) with amp simulation, cab simulation, and most definitely compression/EQ.

And lets not forget the extra processing in the DAW.

Bass tone to me is an in-the-mix type deal. I can't come up with a good isolated bass tone to save my life with my current gear (Stingray 5HH into DAW) because the sound I have in my head () is quite simply unobtainable without the extended scale of basses like Dingwalls and other fanned fret/37 inch basses.

However, I can make a bass tone that fits a mix no problem because I've been mixing metal for years. Mix-tones are WAY different that isolated-tones and honestly could sound nothing close to the tone you had in your mind yet still works perfectly.

Dingwall pickups won't help unless you place two of them right beside each other and run them in series. Even then, I doubt that'd make any real difference.

It's all scale.


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## LordCashew (Jul 12, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> I initially thought so myself, but that doesn't make sense, as I know of a bunch of other multiscale basses and a bunch of other basses that have the same scale length as that of a Dingwall, but even those basses don't sound remotely close to the Dingwall, so I can't help but be convinced that the majority of the sound is from the Dingwall pickups themselves.



I think you're right about this. The longer scale certainly provides the physical tightness but Dingwall has been very intentional about designing and placing his pickups to capture it in a specific way. I also imagine things like very stiff neck construction play a more subtle role as well. As you say, the difference between Dingwall and similarly-specced basses is often quite pronounced in demos, etc.

I'm familiar with the pickups in your bass - I have a buddy who wasn't able to get them to cut through in a church band setting.  "Powerful highs," indeed...

Upgrading to Dingwall FD-3s in series is probably the closest you're going to get to that Dingwall tone in your bass. But honestly, I think you could get a pretty close approximation with a number of less expensive passive pickups. Something voiced to sound like a hot J-style pickup in the bridge position could be a suitable replacement as well IMO. There are a number of guys who I think were headed in your tonal direction with Fender-style instruments before the advent of Darkglass gear - Christian Olde Wolbers comes to mind, and he used mostly 5 string Fenders Jazzes I believe.

Also, if you do end up changing pickups I recommend you get rid of that Ibanez pre. The OEM preamps are almost always the weakest link in inexpensive active basses, and you will probably get a more transparent tone for recording if you wire the bass passive.


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## Beheroth (Jul 12, 2018)

LordIronSpatula said:


> Also, if you do end up changing pickups I recommend you get rid of that Ibanez pre. The OEM preamps are almost always the weakest link in inexpensive active basses, and you will probably get a more transparent tone for recording if you wire the bass passive.



^this
before investing any money, try bypassing/removing the preamp and while you're doing that, wire your pickups in series. A big part of the "dingwall sound" (actually it's more the "nolly sound" than the dingwall but...) is the two bridge pickup wired in series.


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## lewis (Jul 12, 2018)

Beheroth said:


> ^this
> before investing any money, try bypassing/removing the preamp and while you're doing that, wire your pickups in series. A big part of the "dingwall sound" (actually it's more the "nolly sound" than the dingwall but...) is the two bridge pickup wired in series.


yeah I would replace it with the Dingwall Tone capsule.


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## WintermintP (Jul 12, 2018)

Masoo2 said:


> What else are you doing to supplement the Darkglass plugin?
> 
> Cause fyi none of those examples you linked are raw B7K. Both are running through processors (Axe FX and Zoom B3) with amp simulation, cab simulation, and most definitely compression/EQ.
> 
> ...




Okay, let me clarify real quick. I know for a fact that scale plays a factor, but if it were to play *that* big a factor then it would've been pointless for Nordstrand and Sheldon Dingwall to come up with pickups readily available for basses with parallel frets. Besides, I'm not after that *exact* tone per se, but what I *did* want was the punchy grit and treble *similar* to that of a Dingwall through a B7K Ultra. I know for a fact that if I really wanted that exact tone then I would've had to get a friggin' multiscale bass and *then* put the Nordstrand on it or even go as far as buying a Dingwall even though the used ones cost just as much if not more than the new ones.

@Masoo2

Sorry this took a while, but here's the bass DI. I think I have everything at noon except for the master volume which is at full.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1oMOs1eq19SMrsQXQyTalh1Dx2OAfchun

Same bass DI, except I added the Darkglass and other processing. Again, I must remind everyone that the Darkglass I have is a plugin.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RpRHIV_G1Cmd-kfV9QE6DYs7p3oREfWx

Full song where the bass was extracted from.
https://soundcloud.com/wintermintp/one-minute-winter-pumpa-pumpa

As for the additional processing besides the Darkglass B7K Ultra, it's just corrective EQ and limiting.



LordIronSpatula said:


> I think you're right about this. The longer scale certainly provides the physical tightness but Dingwall has been very intentional about designing and placing his pickups to capture it in a specific way. I also imagine things like very stiff neck construction play a more subtle role as well. As you say, the difference between Dingwall and similarly-specced basses is often quite pronounced in demos, etc.
> 
> I'm familiar with the pickups in your bass - I have a buddy who wasn't able to get them to cut through in a church band setting.  "Powerful highs," indeed...
> 
> ...





Beheroth said:


> ^this
> before investing any money, try bypassing/removing the preamp and while you're doing that, wire your pickups in series. A big part of the "dingwall sound" (actually it's more the "nolly sound" than the dingwall but...) is the two bridge pickup wired in series.





lewis said:


> yeah I would replace it with the Dingwall Tone capsule.



Dingwall Tone Capsule. Nice thought! That'll be the first thing to buy along with the pickups! Now if only I could figure out where to buy it. Still, though, I honestly think I really should go for the FD3s. I won't be able to line them right beside each other, but I think I might be able to get satisfactory results with the Tone Capsule at least.

Regarding Fender-style instruments, the first guy that comes to mind is Gabe Crisp from Whitechapel, who has been using a traditional PJ style 4-string bass along with the same gauges of strings that I currently use, and he did use a B7K before switching to the Alpha-Omega Ultra. In fact, I was inspired to go after the B7K plugin after seeing that Gabe Crisp used the B7K, and I was also inspired to start writing songs in Drop G tuning because of Gabe Crisp. Even the gauges I'm using now were based on the information I got from Gabe Crisp himself. He's almost like an idol to me.

But then if it's possible to get that treble-heavy tone using a Fender-style bass, then all I would have to do is buy the Fender J impulse responses from 3 Sigma Audio (it'll make almost any bass sound like a Fender J Bass)...

Regarding wiring the bass passive, nah, I'd rather get the Tone Capsule. Like I've said many times, and I'll say it again, I really am a fan of the active tone.

WintermintP

EDIT: Quite honestly, though, I may have to hold off on the purchase for a little while because if I can get more information on the grants that my classmates got to purchase their equipment and if I get my hands on the same amount of money, the first thing I would go for is that turquoise Dingwall bass that looks real nice...


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## Masoo2 (Jul 12, 2018)

How fresh are the strings? Cause honestly this sounds like dead strings + not enough high end + too much mids on the DI track. Also, how new are the batteries?

I'd still try putting an amp + cab (or even just cab) after the signal chain though just to see the results.


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## Beheroth (Jul 13, 2018)

the tone capsule is litterally an onboard eq, set flat there's nothing going on, nothing to do with the darkglass tone , it's pointless IMO

that soundclip is hella farty and muddy, once again :


Beheroth said:


> try cutting lowmids at 250~500Hz and boost around 1,5K~2Khz or higher. Also play with the grunt and attack switch.



put the grunt in cut and the attack in boost


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## Mwoit (Jul 13, 2018)

I own Dingwall basses and Darkglass pedals, but I'd say you can get closer to that sound you're after with some processing and plug ins. 

As mentioned above, the raw DI is really farty and muddy which isn't so good. It sounds like you're clipping the input signal. How new are the strings? 

Try to EQ the hell out of your input signal, get rid of lots of the low mids and boosting high mids to get more attack in.

What is your signal chain in your DAW?


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## WintermintP (Jul 13, 2018)

I think I got the bass in May. I bought the bass like, the month before, but I had the guys change the strings before it got to me. So... new strings again? I don't know if the stores even carry the 145 string anymore, because it felt like I got the last 145 string when I bought it. I'll check again though.

WintermintP


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## Beheroth (Jul 13, 2018)

d'addario may have the gauges you want but they're dead within a month, if you don't want to change brand at least try the stainless steel ones they will be brighter and last a tad longer


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## WintermintP (Jul 13, 2018)

Beheroth said:


> d'addario may have the gauges you want but they're dead within a month, if you don't want to change brand at least try the stainless steel ones they will be brighter and last a tad longer



So I've wasted all that precious dough trying to buy bass strings locally... ._.

Kalium strings cost a fortune per pack though... T.T

Is there a way to get Ernie Ball strings at 145 gauge? I know the bass player for Fit for an Autopsy was able to get 'em...

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 13, 2018)

I'm not able to change strings today but today is the only day I can record that new track... Is there anything I can do to mitigate the damage?

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 13, 2018)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1teN8He7BbaMkiIWTgZwaVekoelHz_hT0

I can't tell you what I did to enhance the DI but what I can tell you is that I've now split the DI into three channels. One of them is the low which is everything but the fundamental lowpassed out and then the fundamental brickwalled to oblivion. The second is the B7K Ultra tone with the fundamental highpassed out. The third is the VD Ultra tone with everything below 1K highpassed out and additional grit added using the VD.

Also, what I ultimately decided to do was buy DR bass strings. They should take two weeks to arrive. I'm a little nervous because the packaging has a spider on it and I'm afraid of spiders...

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 20, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula Okay, back on the topic of preamps, do you recommend any preamps that would go great with the SR405EQM?

Also, you said that people that wanted to get this kind of a tone went for Fender-style instruments. Were they successful? Will a 5-string J Bass with a B7K sound real close to that of the Dingwall tone as shown in the video?

More examples of what I'm after:



This one's not a Dingwall, I don't think.


WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Jul 21, 2018)

To be honest, the basses in those two videos you posted don't sound all that alike to me. The first is pretty much the NG-2 signature sound, I'm guessing with the pickups in series. Hard to tell in the second video, but I'd say it looks and sounds like some kind of P-style bass, maybe with hotter pickups.

I don't think a Fender-style bass can truly cop the Dingwall sound. "Real close" is probably subjective but I would say for the sound of the bass itself, no. For how it sits in the mix compared to the clips you've posted, maybe. If the second clip above is any indication, it might get close enough to satisfy you - as I said, I'm pretty sure that bass _is _Fender-style.

You may have already seen them if you've been digging, but here's a couple videos of Fenders with the B7k.





You'll notice without the ability to put the pickups in series, the Fender basses miss a lot of the throaty low mids that NG-2 clips often have. Keep in mind also that the heaviness of right hand attack varies quite a bit, along with the gain settings. Again, I don't think either of them sound like Dingwalls, but I think they're a lot closer to your goal than your last DI track is. If they had a series option they might get closer still, but that's something I've never messed with.

Regarding preamps, there's the aforementioned Darkglass Tone Capsule, which has two mid bands instead of mids and highs. There are also 4-band Audere preamps that give you independent control of low mids and high mids - they're excellent and I love mine, but they're a little more subtle. Pretty much anything would probably be better than OEM in your case.

However, I want to be clear that based on your clips I don't think a new pre is the cost-effective solution to your problems. If you get a new pre and new pickups, you could be looking at several hundred dollars, especially if you get a combo like FD-3s and a Tone Capsule. Putting all that in your Soundgear kind of seems like overkill. Don't get me wrong, it _might_ work. But I'd at least consider putting that money toward a brighter sounding bass and some new strings instead. Maybe even sell the Soundgear if you're not using it for other stuff and put that money in the pot too. Just a thought.


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## I play music (Jul 21, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> Hi
> I really wish I could just buy a Dingwall bass instead but they cost like, over $3K here in Canada (counting taxes and such) and the only used ones I found were on Reverb and they cost just as much as well


I don't think a Dingwall Combustion costs 3000 Canadian Dollars...


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## WintermintP (Jul 22, 2018)

I play music said:


> I don't think a Dingwall Combustion costs 3000 Canadian Dollars...


Based on the maths I did, I have found a new Dingwall for $2.2K, but that's just the bass alone. You mustn't forget that I use real heavy gauges on bass strings.



LordIronSpatula said:


> To be honest, the basses in those two videos you posted don't sound all that alike to me. The first is pretty much the NG-2 signature sound, I'm guessing with the pickups in series. Hard to tell in the second video, but I'd say it looks and sounds like some kind of P-style bass, maybe with hotter pickups.
> 
> I don't think a Fender-style bass can truly cop the Dingwall sound. "Real close" is probably subjective but I would say for the sound of the bass itself, no. For how it sits in the mix compared to the clips you've posted, maybe. If the second clip above is any indication, it might get close enough to satisfy you - as I said, I'm pretty sure that bass _is _Fender-style.
> 
> ...



The second clip in question is actually a double-humbucker bass. As I've indicated in the second clip, It doesn't have the "throaty mids" but it does have the clangy treble and *that* is what I'm actually after. The clangy treble tone that would cut through in Drop G tuning. Neither of the clips sound any satisfactory but that's just because the guy didn't dial that much gain on his B7K. I couldn't care less of the low mids at all, as I would be cutting them anyway. The *clangy treble* is what I actually want.

For the exact same reason I have begun considering the Sterling Stingray bass. It's also got a really nice price tag. Good idea or no?

WintermintP


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## Beheroth (Jul 22, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> *Fresh strings* is what I actually want.


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## WintermintP (Jul 22, 2018)

Well it couldn't just be the fresh strings... although I understand that does play a big factor... :'<

@LordIronSpatula 2:21 on the first video is real close to what I'm looking for actually.



0:57 YAAAAS O3O O3O O3O O3O DIS TONE O3O O3O O3O O3O #fuego

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 22, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula (sorry for the double-post but I'm not able to edit the other one so I have to ask here)

So is it going to be possible to get that 0:57 tone on the above video with a Ray5 and not a Ray35? The price tag of the Ray35 feels too steep right now. I know for a fact that I'm selling all of the stuff I don't use so I can save up for that Dingwall bass but...

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 23, 2018)

@Beheroth I thought about it again, and... maybe I should wait until the DR DDT order's in before I actually start making a decision. If you haven't kept up, yes, I did say I did order the DR DDTs. They should arrive this week actually. You have to understand, though, I hate spiders and the spider on the front of the packaging is really going to make me want to wear gloves before I touch the packaging. DON'T JUDGE!!!! >.<

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Jul 23, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> @LordIronSpatula
> So is it going to be possible to get that 0:57 tone on the above video with a Ray5 and not a Ray35? The price tag of the Ray35 feels too steep right now. I know for a fact that I'm selling all of the stuff I don't use so I can save up for that Dingwall bass but...



Stingray-style basses in general can usually get a pretty grindy high-mid thing going, though to me it sounds a little less open than a Jazz. I don't have any experience with either of the particular models you mentioned, though I doubt they would sound significantly different, especially with the amount of gain you intend to use. Try finding some youtube demos, or even dig around on Talkbass. I'm sure someone has compared them.


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## WintermintP (Jul 23, 2018)

I found some threads but the responses have too many varying degrees. I'll have to rent out a Ray5 if I can, or see if I can play a Ray5 through a Darkglass B7K. It's a bit of a shame that what I have is a plugin version of the B7K.

EDIT:



O3O

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 23, 2018)

Hold on, THIS is actually Andrew Baena playing a *lower* end Ibanez vs what I currently have... O_O



So it really could be that I just need fresh strings?! O_O;;

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Jul 24, 2018)

Your strings did sound quite dead in your clip. If you're happy with how Baena's SR sounds, new strings will certainly get you closer. The Baena clip sounds to me like yet another different tone, but the fact that you seem open to a few sounds as possibilities could well mean there's a tone attainable with your SR that would work for you.

Personally, if I was starting from the sound you've got now I'd be looking at more than just the strings. I think there's more work to be done later in the signal chain as well. But strings are a huge variable and a relatively inexpensive one at that, which makes them a great place to start. Good luck and let us know how it goes.


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## WintermintP (Jul 25, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula Sorry for the late reply!

I was dialling some tones on another DI of the same bass and I started to feel, yes, it actually might be the strings that are the biggest problem. Although if I really were to change the onboard preamp, I would have to get a preamp that actually fits the current SR405EQM routing, and I've heard of a number of different preamps, none of which actually complies with that criterion.

I would get the Tone Capsule if I could, but there are two main problems. One is that there is no treble control, which is concerning because treble is the main bulk of the bass tone I'm looking for, and the other problem is that there are only EQ knobs for the preamp, which means not only do I have to check if they're going to fit the smaller holes, I'm also going to have to figure out how I'm going to solder it to the existing blend knob and volume knob (I think it's the master volume knob?). Also, price (and accessibility, because there aren't any stores in Canada that sells one, seems like).

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 25, 2018)

Oh?! I didn't realise that there were those screwdriver suckers like there were for EMG pickups! So does one pair work for the blend knob and the other for the volume knob? O.O

If so I found a site that seems like they're selling it for... roughly $220-ish?

WintermintP


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## Mwoit (Jul 26, 2018)

I'd say get a Darkglass B7K or something like that, and you'd be sorted. Everything else sounds like you're trying to band aid your tone.


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## WintermintP (Jul 26, 2018)

Mwoit said:


> I'd say get a Darkglass B7K or something like that, and you'd be sorted. Everything else sounds like you're trying to band aid your tone.



I was hoping you would catch this and not let it fly over your head, but unless I were to play live as a bass player in a band, which is still a possibility, there is literally no point buying another B7K because I *already have one* in plugin form and that's basically all I need when it comes to a bass rig. What I am looking into, though, is a new set of strings as well as a Tone Capsule to go with the B7K that I already have.

https://neuraldsp.com/products/darkglass-ultra-plugins/

Make no mistake, when recording all of my guitar and bass parts, I just go DI and use plugins for all of my tones. Expensive plugins at that...

That being said, getting a hardware bass amp is still a possibility, but I'm looking into the AO Ultra more so than the B7K, although it's still possible that I might get the B7K Ultra anyway, depending on where the world takes us.

@Beheroth @LordIronSpatula Anyway, update on the strings, I contacted the store and they said I won't be getting them until 1 August. I'm getting a little nervous because the deadline for "Numbered Days" is coming up.

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 28, 2018)

Seriously, can *anybody* _*please*_ chime in and help me figure out how I'm going to install the Darkglass Tone Capsule? Thanks in advance.

WintermintP


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## Beheroth (Jul 29, 2018)

Before spending any money try a parametric EQ plugin before the B7K plugin with those freqs : 70hz, 500hz and 2.8Khz because that's literally what the tone capsule is : a 3band EQ.


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## WintermintP (Jul 29, 2018)

Beheroth said:


> Before spending any money try a parametric EQ plugin before the B7K plugin with those freqs : 70hz, 500hz and 2.8Khz because that's literally what the tone capsule is : a 3band EQ.



Thanks for the suggestion. While I do find the idea helpful, I don't think the Tone Capsule is just a 3-band EQ. I think there's something more to it than that, as no preamp is truly transparent unless it's software.

WintermintP

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UKiqpecOe7tz6D2KAKrgb2cTNyRVpBm6

@Masoo2 @lewis @LordIronSpatula @Mwoit 

Updated bass tone from a more recent track. Is this any better? I added a 3 Sigma Audio IR based off the Ampeg 8x10.


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## Beheroth (Jul 29, 2018)




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## WintermintP (Jul 29, 2018)

Okay, fine, I started to feel I might not even need the preamp anyway.

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 29, 2018)

@Beheroth If you don't mind, can you bring down the meme image to about half the size though? The fact that it's that big is actually starting to give me the creeps.

No seriously, it's actually starting to look really creepy, and I'm actually a lot more timid than you think.

WintermintP


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## Beheroth (Jul 29, 2018)




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## LordCashew (Jul 29, 2018)

I actually think the newest clip is an improvement. Try running through those same settings when you've got new strings on and then go from there.

I don't know anything about the installation of the Tone Capsule, sorry. I would guess it has one input for the pickups, post blend and whatever else you want to put in front of it. I'm sure your research is as good as mine on that front.


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## WintermintP (Jul 29, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula I found some clues in the form of an instruction manual, but I may have to work this out with an expert.

https://www.darkglass.com/app/uploads/2015/08/Manual-Tone-Capsule-V2.pdf






I have no clue what the second diagram even means... @[email protected]

EDIT: Okay, based on the image, the triangular doohickey seems to be the output jack and is plugged into slot #4. Then the shielding, I would imagine it would be coming from the knobs, probably twisted together, and that probably goes into slot #2. The middle wire from the volume knob should be slot #1. Then the red wire from the battery compartment should be slot #3.

#learningsomethingneweveryday

I might be able to install this myself, if I get lucky enough to figure out which one's which.

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Jul 29, 2018)

Sounds like you've got the gist of it. Overall, it looks pretty easy. If you're lucky, your OEM volume and tone controls might be separate from your EQ section, in which case you could just wire them to the Tone Capsule. If they're all on the same board, you'll have to install some new components in their place, which will probably involve soldering.


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## WintermintP (Jul 29, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula Yea, let's hope that the EQ are separate from the OEM Volume and Tone.

@Beheroth You do need to keep in mind that simply adding an EQ with those frequency settings, while it can emulate the Tone Capsule, it won't do anything to the fact that the bad preamp is still installed. Adding the Tone Capsule itself would remove the bad preamp completely.

WintermintP


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## Beheroth (Jul 29, 2018)

LordIronSpatula said:


> Also, if you do end up changing pickups I recommend you get rid of that Ibanez pre. The OEM preamps are almost always the weakest link in inexpensive active basses, and you will probably get a more transparent tone for recording if you wire the bass passive.





Beheroth said:


> before investing any money, try bypassing/removing the preamp and while you're doing that, wire your pickups in series


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## WintermintP (Jul 31, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula

Er... O_O

Is that... good or bad?!

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Jul 31, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula I thought about how that thing's been wired for a little while and it got me thinking...

If we figured out which one of these are the four wires we need, shouldn't we be able to just cut the plug end and strip them so that we can screw them into place on the slots? I know for a fact that I simply had to do something along those lines when I installed the 89s with the existing pickup selector...

But then having to cut the plug end of something that's already set up to be solderless is just plain daunting...

AAAAAAAAUGHH I HATE SOLDERING >_<;;

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Jul 31, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> @LordIronSpatula
> If we figured out which one of these are the four wires we need, shouldn't we be able to just cut the plug end and strip them so that we can screw them into place on the slots?



Yes, in theory. It _looks_ like you could probably leave your blend control, as it's separate and probably passive. If the volume control is also a separate passive control you could just unplug it from the module and strip the wires. (I can't tell if that's the case from the pictures.) That would be two of the four, and the other two would be from the battery compartment.

If you're feeling brave, you could also try pulling the output from the blend control and jumping it straight to the output jack. That would give you a passive bass without even a volume pot in the signal chain. It would be easily reversible and no more difficult than installing the tone capsule. You could even leave the OEM pre in the cavity.

I still counsel waiting for new strings before making any further decisions, though...


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## WintermintP (Jul 31, 2018)

Having looked deeper into the controls, you seem to be right, the Blend seems to be independent, that's the good news.

The bad news...

It seemed like the volume control was independent for a moment, since there were black wires that go to the pickups and another black wire that just goes to the output jack.

Now I'm not really sure, as the right-most plug on that big board is also connected to the Volume. Is it safe to just cut them out, or am I actually screwed?






Actually, shouldn't I technically be able to just plug out the mid and low/high controls which are the big prong and the middle prong respectively and just go from there? Although I wouldn't really know how so someone's got to help me in that regard...

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Jul 31, 2018)

If you simply unplug things from the board you will probably just end up with an open circuit/no signal.

It does look like the volume control is a passive component. I can't be 100% sure without examining it myself, but if it is, you'd need to unplug _it _from the board and wire it either to the bass's output jack or the input of a new preamp.

Again, I suggest you try the bass as is with new strings before you change anything, just in case.


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## WintermintP (Jul 31, 2018)

I hope you do realise the whole point of me examining through this is actually to install the Tone Capsule on there so "either the bass's output jack or the input of a new preamp" doesn't make sense. What makes more sense is that we find out which of the wires is actually the shield and which is the one that goes to slot #1.

Also, one of the plugs is actually a direct connect to the output jack and I wonder what I would have to do to the black and the white that are hooked to the plug.

@bostjan If you have any insights on this stuff, please help us out... @[email protected]

@LordIronSpatula https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wtjZcE1NxP5T_G5l0TJiS2_EuITUR_SN/view?usp=drivesdk

That should be the higher resolution for the last image. Is that any helpful?

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Jul 31, 2018)

"Access denied" on your link.

I merely included wiring passive straight to the jack as an option in case you're interested in trying it before you buy a pre. If you're not, don't worry about that part. FWIW you need to find out which wire is which either way. Since you have two black wires going to your jack, black is probably your sleeve/ground color and your "hot" wire from the volume will be another color. You'd have to test it to be totally sure, but in the worst case you could hook them up one way to see if they work, and switch them if they don't.


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## WintermintP (Jul 31, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula I swear I turned on link sharing. I turned it on again. Try now.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wtjZcE1NxP5T_G5l0TJiS2_EuITUR_SN/view?usp=drivesdk

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Aug 1, 2018)

Yeah, looks like just a red and black coming from the volume control. Those should be your wires.


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## WintermintP (Aug 2, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula But which one should be which? Do I just twist them both to make the yellow in the diagram?

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Aug 5, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula Update on the status.

I went ahead and bought the Tone Capsule, which I'll probably have to wait until Friday to get it? The thing is, though, that I found a group of guys that were recommended to me by my college professor (I'm in a music industry programme which covers not only stuff about record labels, distribution, etc. but also stuff about engineering and even being an instrument tech), and those guys said they'll install the preamp for $50. Good idea, or should I attempt to do this myself? I'm a little nervous because I've never seen the likes of the wiring on this bass before. Not that I haven't seen any kind of wiring at all before, though, because I actually have installed the 89s on the Snakebyte along with my mother, but I didn't know a volume pot could be plugged into the same board as a 3-band EQ and what have you.

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Aug 5, 2018)

Based on the questions you've been asking, I think the $50 might be worth it to save yourself some hassle. It's a simple job for someone who can solder well and understands the components and wiring involved. But if anything does go awry it can be pretty hard to figure out the problem. I've encountered a few things I probably wouldn't have been able to troubleshoot without a solid understanding of basic circuits and my multimeter. Since you're newer to this, I'd say just have them do it so you don't have to worry about anything.


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## Floppystrings (Aug 5, 2018)

I wouldn't trust anyone to re-wire my Warwick double bucks without paying them $75 or even more. The wiring is insane:

http://www.warwickbass.com/warwick/...l PDF/Scematic/Warwick/ab_2016/SP W 70214.pdf


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## WintermintP (Aug 5, 2018)

Floppystrings said:


> I wouldn't trust anyone to re-wire my Warwick double bucks without paying them $75 or even more. The wiring is insane:
> 
> http://www.warwickbass.com/warwick/data/Warwick.de/Technical PDF/Scematic/Warwick/ab_2016/SP W 70214.pdf



Yea but at least you're lucky in the sense that you don't have something similar to the likes of a motherboard you have to worry about. Remember, as for my case, everything's plugged onto a board. Also, that wiring doesn't seem complex at all. Messy, but I was still able to understand at least half of it.

@LordIronSpatula Honestly, if there were a wiring diagram for this bass that would've been really helpful but Ibanez stopped doing those since 2008. Besides, their diagrams only show which wire goes where but never talks about which wire actually does what. Looks like $50 it is... It'll be a little tight because I'm essentially using all of the money I got by selling the drum kit just for the Tone Capsule.

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Aug 9, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula I just talked with the tech in person. What he's telling me is that the pickups were made specifically for the OEM preamp and he's also saying that there's a very high chance the Tone Capsule won't work at all because it was built for a bass that didn't have a preamp to begin with. He says I should just look into getting a different bass instead as the bass itself is just bad and is overpriced. He made an angry rant over this and refused the job altogether.

#rip

EDIT: As for the strings, the guys at the other store said they *just *got to the supplier and they're going to take an ADDITIONAL month before they get to the store. The month before when I ordered them the guys said it should be there 1 August but when I talked to them that day, nope, additional month.

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Aug 9, 2018)

I was left with a choice: to use Loki Bass for the rest of the album or boil existing bass strings. I boiled existing bass strings hoping that I could at least get the preamp installed so that I can get at least some kind of improvement in tone. Nope. I had a hunch it was going to sound too good to be true. And too good to be true it was.

As it turns out, that preamp is only compatible with basses that were made with the Tone Capsule in mind, which would have already gotten the Tone Capsule installed in the first place. Makes me wonder why they even have the Tone Capsule available as a separate product at this point.

Now the only bragging right I have is the ability to say a Darkglass product was mine for a day.

WintermintP


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## Beheroth (Aug 9, 2018)

for you for buying the tone capsule in the first place

and your tech is a retard, your bass use passive pickups you just have to wire them to the tone capsule as instructed in the manual and there you go.
now that you have it, use it


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## WintermintP (Aug 9, 2018)

@Beheroth

What he said was that the preamp in the bass and the pickups themselves are designed to work specifically with each other, and thus if the preamp is removed, then everything would stop working (that's his logic anyway). He also initially said that the Tone Capsule was originally intended for bass that never had one before. I did notice a board on each module except for the volume pot, that might have a factor.

I think what he's trying to say was that if he were to replace everything the Blend knob and everything else wouldn't work and if I were to get the bass with the mods applied and I were to dislike it, it's impossible to go back. Everyone at the store kept saying I should just get a different bass altogether for the exact same reason and forget the Tone Capsule completely.

I even asked if they would do it if I bought a separate volume and blend knob so that the whole circuitry would be gutted and it would be a completely different instrument at that point but they still said they won't do it even if they were paid a grand.

WintermintP


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## Beheroth (Aug 9, 2018)

no the pickups are passive they don't need the preamp to work you can just wire them straight to the jack and they'll work, you can use a standard vol/vol/tone passive config, vol/blend/tone or you can wire the tone capsule to it.

I do agree that buying the tone capsule was a really bad idea as i've told you multiple times.

But, now that you got it, you might as well put it to use, either wire it yourself or find a real tech


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## WintermintP (Aug 9, 2018)

He also said something about wood combinations... something along the lines of "the Tone Capsule won't sound the proper way unless they're of specific wood combinations... your body is Basswood, correct?"

WintermintP


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## stevexc (Aug 9, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> He also said something about wood combinations... something along the lines of "the Tone Capsule won't sound the proper way unless they're of specific wood combinations... your body is Basswood, correct?"
> 
> WintermintP



Find a real tech. That's a big red flag.


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## Beheroth (Aug 9, 2018)




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## WintermintP (Aug 9, 2018)

stevexc said:


> Find a real tech. That's a big red flag.


But there are only a handful of techs around here. The guy at L&M (dodgy as hell and doesn't know what drop tuning means; plenty of bad experiences with this guy), the guy I talked to today, Greigg (who has no experience outside traditional guitars and basses), and Rainer. So that means the only option left is Rainer, and I haven't been able to find him lately.

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Aug 9, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> @LordIronSpatula I just talked with the tech in person. What he's telling me is that the pickups were made specifically for the OEM preamp and he's also saying that there's a very high chance the Tone Capsule won't work at all because it was built for a bass that didn't have a preamp to begin with. He says I should just look into getting a different bass instead as the bass itself is just bad and is overpriced. He made an angry rant over this and refused the job altogether.



Wow, what a convoluted journey this thread has been!

As others have said, it is _absolutely _possible to wire your pickups to a tone capsule. Maybe they were developed in conjunction with the OEM pre, but that sounds more like marketing-speak than anything else. They are passive pickups, as are the FD-3s in a Dingwall NG-2. Which, by the way, were not specifically designed to work with the Tone Capsule either - there are plenty of guys with Dingwalls on TalkBass swapping out their Glockenklang pres and others for Darkglass and vice versa. Pres designed to work with passive pickups are supposed to be interchangeable. How the Darkglass will sound with your pickups is another question entirely, but it will definitely function. I could see a tech not wanting to hybridize with the OEM preamp components, but the rest of it is BS.

To me, it sounds like your tech is looking for an excuse not to do the job. Maybe he's worried you won't be satisfied with the results and doesn't want an argument after he does the work. Maybe he thinks the expenditure is questionable and is trying to steer you away from it (like others in this thread). Maybe his spidey-sense is tingling...


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## WintermintP (Aug 14, 2018)

@Beheroth @LordIronSpatula 

Okay. Great news for the both of you.

The seller actually has his own ties with a bunch of other techs. He's going to come up with a solution soon.

WintermintP


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## A-Branger (Aug 14, 2018)

the tone capsule is a pre-amp. pickups wont matter

its a pre-amp that should come with their own EQ section depending on your bass configuration. Same reason you can buy a "wiring pre-amp kit" from Aguilar, SD, ect. They sell you the pre-amp with a 2/3/4 EQ pots to fit your specific bass. You jsut wire your pickups to it and be done. 



















ect ect ect


also *facepalm* at you boiling your strings!!.... cmon dude! you are better than that. go to the shop and buy a new set!


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## A-Branger (Aug 14, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> What he said was that the preamp in the bass and the pickups themselves are designed to work specifically with each other,


yup, thats why the bass work



WintermintP said:


> and thus if the preamp is removed, then everything would stop working (that's his logic anyway).



yeh kinda. You can still play a bass in full passive mode, just like a normal guitar is passive. Most Fender basses are like that. They dont have an EQ section, jsut a tone knnob, just like on a guitar. Just would need to re-wired to worn in this configuration. Also bass would be lower in output tho, reason why some amps have a "active/passive" bass mode input



WintermintP said:


> He also initially said that the Tone Capsule was originally intended for bass that never had one before. I did notice a board on each module except for the volume pot, that might have a factor.



the tone capsule is a pre-amp EQ, you remove the one in your current bass, and re-place it with the new one. Tahts the point of it. Or add it to a bass who doesnt have one. As long as the pickups are passive as most basses are, it should be fine


I wont call that guy a "tech" and I would stop using it


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## lewis (Aug 15, 2018)

hahahahahahaha dude that "tech" sounds like an absolute dickhead.
Even if i were completely ignorant to life in general, I would still not think or come out with some of the stuff he has said to you.
What a tool


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## lewis (Aug 15, 2018)

also, try and wire the pickups up in a way that can select between series and parallel.


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## WintermintP (Aug 21, 2018)

@lewis Those are kind of my thoughts as well. Even I was able to get the gist of the wiring just by looking at the dang thing.

But then because he initially said that it should be a simple job but then flaked out when he actually saw the bass I'm starting to feel there could be something going on as well.

WintermintP


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## LordCashew (Aug 21, 2018)

WintermintP said:


> @lewis
> But then because he initially said that it should be a simple job but then flaked out when he actually saw the bass I'm starting to feel there could be something going on as well.



If there's anything "going on," it's with him, not the bass. Like all of us have said, it's fairly straightforward. I could do it - in fact, I've done more complicated bass electronics swaps than this, and I'm not a pro tech. The fact that he doesn't want to get paid for an easy, routine job seems odd.

He could be incompetent, I guess, but that seems unlikely. It really sounds like he just doesn't want to do it, and he's making up reasons to get you to give up. Were you rude to him or something? 

I can see why he might not think it's the best idea to put the tone capsule in your bass, given that I and others in this thread have expressed it's likely not the most cost-efficient way of improving your tone. But still, why refuse to take your money to do what you want when it's an easy job?


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## WintermintP (Aug 22, 2018)

I do have the tendency to come off as rude even though I never intend to, yea, that may have played a hand.

In any case, the seller suggested a tech in Kitchener, but the said tech hasn't responded at all. I messaged the seller again, asking what I should do. It'll be another day before I hear back from anybody.

The problem with just getting new strings and ending it there is that I have attempted to get the DR DDTs hoping that would improve the tone, but the goons at L&M love their D'Addarios so much that it's beyond likely that they would deliberately withhold all orders of other brands just to force you into buying the D'Addarios instead, and D'Addarios are the worst when it comes to value. Looks like juststrings (the site) it is...

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Aug 23, 2018)

@Masoo2 I'm late to the party here but I'm going to tell you of this anyway.



I found what amp model he was using in a similar video from this guy.

As it turns out, he is using a Darkglass B7K run into an Axe-FX that's modelling a Roland JC120. That's the good news. The bad news is that I have no clue if he's running the amp module of the JC120 into a different cab or if he's actually using the JC120 amp itself modeled by the Axe-FX. Anyway, I went ahead and bought a Hotone VStomp for a really good deal that should get me started.

@LordIronSpatula Also I've got great news.

As it turns out, when I asked for a full refund on the DR DDTs because they were taking too long, they didn't cancel the order. While I didn't get a refund as asked, the strings are still on their way! Only thing left to do is wait until L&M calls back tomorrow as to what the status is. Shouldn't be very long since we're nearing the final week!

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Aug 23, 2018)

Wait, he's also using a FAS Modern. I know that's a custom amp module and there's no real life equivalent, but I know I can use Amplitube's Custom Shop to make my own custom module. Any idea where to get started? I mean, it's a hybrid amp, right? So which two amps is it a hybrid of?

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Aug 28, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula Because my mother wouldn't cooperate (the seller found two techs in Kitchener but my mother wouldn't let me even get near 'em), I was essentially forced to return the Tone Capsule. In exchange she said she would help me get the Dingwall bass once I've collected sufficient funds (I have a big hunch she's just going to go back on her word because they're disappearing so fast now and there's one Dingwall bass in particular that only costs $1.8K that I have my sights on but that's disappearing real soon as well, PLUS I've known her for *not* following through with anything at all and just going back on her word every time; in fact, there was one other particular item that I tried to buy so I sent her the money so she would buy it on my behalf but she just pocketed the money and I haven't seen the item at all; I couldn't remember exactly what it was but it was an accessory). That's the bad news.

The good news is that the DDT bass strings just arrived at the store.

WintermintP


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## WintermintP (Aug 28, 2018)

@LordIronSpatula

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dSpSe5NscfwAgQUrIWV1dkzMwii3KUU1

As for the Dingwall, @#$% Dingwall. I got that grindy mids tone right here. XD

#DDT_REPRESENT

@MaxOfMetal This thread can close. Thank you!

WintermintP


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