# How long did it take you to learn to shred?



## nkri

I've been playing for 6.5 years, and my goal for the last 3 has been to advance my picking technique to the level of Petrucci et al, but I only started _really_ practicing and working on technique in July, when I started to devote 4+ hours per day to practice. I've seen steady improvement since then, and now I can comfortably alternate pick 16ths at ~120bpm (after starting ~75-80). My long-term goal as of right now is to be able to play 16ths somewhere around 200, but I've been focusing on much smaller/easier short-term goals.

So, for those of you who can shred, how long did it take you to learn accuracy and precision at high speeds and how much time did/do you practice every day? I've been amazed at how much I've been able to accomplish in the last few months but I'm trying to gauge how far along I'll be in, say, a year from now.


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## Maniacal

I worked on my picking for 2 hours a day for about to 2 years before I got it to a stage I was fairly happy with. 

I don't think it is about time, it is about good use of time. My routines were very intense and always pushing my limits. Doing the same thing every day won't get you very far.


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## James_E

I'm glad you posted this as I'm curious too. Have you read Malcom Gladwell's book "outliers" where it talks about "ten thousand hours"?

Most people who are "talented" (as perceived by those who don't play an instrument) are those that have worked VERY hard to get where it "looks easy". This is the same in ANY human endeavour. 

I'm currently trying to put in the hours and work to get to where I want to be as far as "shred" goes. I've got a long way to go. I'd love to hear about how much work others have put in and what it has got them.

Here's a relevant video in the meantime:


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## deathjazz89

I used a knife all my life until I found a grater. That is the day I learned to shred.


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## MrPepperoniNipples

I think it was 4 years before my technique actually developed into something that I could really be proud of

and I mean raelly be proud of, not just play sloppy and fast in my bedroom and pretend I'm Rusty Cooley.


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## TristanTTN

I've been playing for about 2 and a half years now and I'm pretty good at economy picking. I can play some pretty fast stuff with that technique, but I still can't alternate pick that well. 

Have to practice more!


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## Stealthdjentstic

I still cant play worth shit


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## Hollowway

I think for the majority of players this is a difficult question to answer, because most people (including professional musicians) don't continually build and build and build on their techniques, but instead take some time off in between. 4 hours a day of practicing speed picking isn't really sustainable long term without burning out. So I think most people get really proficient, then work on other things, or slack off some, then revisit it later. I know that's the case for myself, and a lot of touring musicians say the same thing. I think if you're doing what you're doing you'll quickly become proficient at shredding, as you want, and will then move to something else, technique and practice wise. And honestly, at the rate you're going you're going to get really good really fast, so we'll probably be coming to you!
Personally, I scrapped my technique (circular picking) back in 2008 and forced myself to start over, and develop good, strict wrist technique. Then I moved to cleaning up my sweeps. And now I've been such a slacker I'm working on speed again for, like, the umpteen millionth time in my life. It's the first thing to go when you slack off for a couple of months.

EDIT: PS, I'm going to guess you're not dating anyone right now. Having a girlfriend screws up the practice schedule like nothing else.


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## mindwalker

I've played for like 6 years but only seriously the last 3 or 4. By seriously I mean 1 hour per day at best. I have invested in a few fancy guitars but I still play like shit. Reason being that I always play the same stuff and I don't have much time for more. Of course time is what you make of it but once you have a girlfriend, a full day job and a house to keep.. you start running out of time.

On a plus side joining YouTube guitar compos forced me to push the envelope.. but I'm still very sloppy and wouldn't play live for anyone


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## CRaul87

Maniacal said:


> Doing the same thing every day won't get you very far.


can you elaborate more on that pls?


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## Sam MJ

You have to push past your boundaries and out of your comfort zone, if you do the same thing everyday and just play what you can already play then you aren't learning.

Choose a short lick (2 bars or so) that you like the sound of, play it slowly untill you've learnt the fingerings for it then practise that as fast as you can WITHOUT tensing up AT ALL, make a concious effort to stay relaxed and check every few minutes to make sure.

It's fine if you make a few mistakes, just take that section and play it a bit slower for a few minutes before going back to the full lick.

do that a bit everyday untill you can play it comfortably then choose another lick using the same techniques (or the next part if it's a song)


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## CRaul87

well I do play the same thing every day for the most part but that's just because I can't play it up to speed yet....


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## Sam MJ

CRaul87 said:


> well I do play the same thing every day for the most part but that's just because I can't play it up to speed yet....


 That's fine, just make sure you're pushing yourself a bit more everyday  (but not so much that you tense up)


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## kaaka

I can shred decently - there are certainly a lot of better people on the forum. Sometimes I practice hard for periods, other times I just practice technique for a few minutes a couple times a week to not lose it all. I have played guitar now for 12 years but let's say I didn't practice much in the first years.

I also realised that for passing a certain level of speed It's not about time practiced for me but more about improve technique by reevaluating how to optimize what you currently got... Which means to really analyse your playing in term of how to hold the pick, optimize movements, stay relaxed and carefully listen to the outcome of what you play. With this approach you can do really good improvements in quite little time when you felt stuck at a certain tempo and felt you couldn't go faster.


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## nkri

deathjazz89 said:


> I used a knife all my life until I found a grater. That is the day I learned to shred.


I tend to find the slap chop gets the job done 



Hollowway said:


> EDIT: PS, I'm going to guess you're not dating anyone right now. Having a girlfriend screws up the practice schedule like nothing else.


haha nope, in addition to practicing several hours a day, I'm also a full-time undergrad and work 35-hour weeks so I don't have time for a girlfriend right now lol, it'll be a lot easier when I'm out of college...



kaaka said:


> I also realised that for passing a certain level of speed It's not about time practiced for me but more about improve technique by reevaluating how to optimize what you currently got... Which means to really analyse your playing in term of how to hold the pick, optimize movements, stay relaxed and carefully listen to the outcome of what you play. With this approach you can do really good improvements in quite little time when you felt stuck at a certain tempo and felt you couldn't go faster.


Yup I've been finding the same thing...as with anything speed-related, improvement is more about efficiency and optimization than anything else.


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## JosephAOI

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I still cant play worth shit


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## Experimorph

Like many have pointed out, it's not all about the years spent playing. I've been playing for some 6 years now, and I still feel like I simply can't shred.

The problems stem from many roots, which I've acknowledged along the way. I was self taught for two or three years into playing, and like Hollowway, I developed a circular picking technique, mostly using my thumb and index finger for the moving the pick. This led to two problems: I plateaued and felt that I wasn't progressing after a certain point; it also led to semi-constant pain in the middle joint of my index finger - no wonder given the fact that a lot of pressure is forwarded into that single joint when moving swiftly and hitting the strings hard, with an open hand as well.

It took me quite some time to get accustomed to playing with a closed hand after that, and I really had to concentrate on loosening the grip on the pick. However, after the adaptation phase, I felt like I was progressing again.

When I started playing, I was madly into the shred scene. So, I figured, I had to learn to play fast. I actually had a goal: to sweep like Jason Becker before I was 20 years old. Quite ambitious, that.

My perversion for getting better made me play hours on end every day, though. I was constantly pushing myself, and you could easily see the results; you could say that I spent the time learning well, but I made one crucial mistake: I wasn't playing to a click.

At that time, I sucked at playing anything rhythm. Around the time I somersaulted the way I pick, I also started to play to songs or with a metronome. These two factors then supported learning to play rhythmic stuff (read: never leaving the low F# and B strings now, haha).

These days, even though I'm spending quite a lot of time with the guitar, I keep noticing myself drifting away from any sort of strict practice. I'm more inclined to write songs and create soundscapes than actually learn anything. So, again, I find that I'm not really making any progress technique-wise. Sucks, but I have no one to blame for it but myself.

*TL;DR:* I really lost my point somewhere along those lines, but I guess I'm trying to say that getting better in a certain span of time is subjective. And that applies to pretty much anything, not just playing instruments.

P.S. I've been lurking the forums for I don't know how long and I finally registered. Proud owner of ERG's salutes you all!


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## TheOddGoat




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## Jackson kelly

nkri said:


> I've been playing for 6.5 years, and my goal for the last 3 has been to advance my picking technique to the level of Petrucci et al, but I only started _really_ practicing and working on technique in July, when I started to devote 4+ hours per day to practice. I've seen steady improvement since then, and now I can comfortably alternate pick 16ths at ~120bpm (after starting ~75-80). My long-term goal as of right now is to be able to play 16ths somewhere around 200, but I've been focusing on much smaller/easier short-term goals.
> 
> So, for those of you who can shred, how long did it take you to learn accuracy and precision at high speeds and how much time did/do you practice every day? I've been amazed at how much I've been able to accomplish in the last few months but I'm trying to gauge how far along I'll be in, say, a year from now.


Dide... You could do it in months..i know tjat a bold statement, but ive always excelled fast at guitar ...an its not cause im gifted or that my brain is. Extraordinary. Lol. I jist took on economy picking a few weeks ago and i have made alot of progress already. I plan on being prerty proficient in about two months...maybe sooner. Heres some tips......study and understand the theory and technique behind. The skill your trying to learn. Know enough to actually train yourself. Learn one run that tales you all tje way across the fret board and back down ..that is picked and tied togetjer in tje most fluid way that it can be. Play it slow and play it play it alot.learn some. Speed picking. Excersises that make you use all of your fingers in weird order.petrucci has a few that will male yoi want to smash your guotar...but they help alot.play your scales behind a chord movement that ot works with it of you can.it helps bring what your doing to life. Anyways...sinister gates from avenge seven fold learned sweeping amd gast picking in like half a year or somethimg. Its doable. Jist do it man. You got this. Thier is no pre determined time frame. Everyones different an its up to you.


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## billinder33

nkri said:


> I've been playing for 6.5 years, and my goal for the last 3 has been to advance my picking technique to the level of Petrucci et al, but I only started _really_ practicing and working on technique in July, when I started to devote 4+ hours per day to practice. I've seen steady improvement since then, and now I can comfortably alternate pick 16ths at ~120bpm (after starting ~75-80). My long-term goal as of right now is to be able to play 16ths somewhere around 200, but I've been focusing on much smaller/easier short-term goals.
> 
> So, for those of you who can shred, how long did it take you to learn accuracy and precision at high speeds and how much time did/do you practice every day? I've been amazed at how much I've been able to accomplish in the last few months but I'm trying to gauge how far along I'll be in, say, a year from now.




If you have the right picking and fingering techniques, you can get to a high-level plateau fairly quickly, but getting into each successive upper echelon of 'shred mastery' will require larger amounts of time... also know as 'diminishing returns'. And like any professional athlete, you will have to keep working to maintain whatever top end of speed you have reached. Unless you are planning to devote your life into being the next Petrucci or Malmsteen, at some point you will probably want to determine where the 'cutoff' or 'good enough' point is and focus on integrating what you have learned into music. 

Many years ago I decided I wasn't blessed with the genetic makeup to get to that level of shred with any reasonable amount of time investment, and it wasn't really going to help me meet my goal of being a good writer/composer and recordist anyhow. There are so many amazing shredders out there that I'll never have a competitive advantage in that arena. So I ended up shifting my focus from ripping scales and arpeggios up and down to learning a wider range of techniques like chicken-pickin', jazz comping, funk, chord melody, sweep picking, improvising over complex chord changes, soloing in-and-out-of-the-box ect. For me, that was the right decision, but everyone has to determine for themselves where to spend their limited time on earth. 

As long as you are enjoying the journey though, that's the most important part!! Good luck!!!


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## mdeeRocks

(When I was about 19) It took me about 4 months of about 1 hour practice a day to learn Paul Gilbert's famous picking lick to play it totally effortlessly at high speed. Took me about a month to have very good control of dynamics of it. I had very good left hand technique and I could tremolo pick forever with zero fatigue and minimum movements (that took me about 4 years or so, I have started "late"), 4 months were spent on string crossing and dynamics.

Now, I didn't do any of this metronome 5 bmp per day nonsense, or I'd be still playing this lick at 90bpm. I basically figured it out first how to play it fast (mostly by short high speed bursts and going by the feeling of tension), then slowed down to get it in control, then did some metronome practice. The technique is different when playing at mid/slow speeds. The major thing was playing what felt (no tension) and sounded right. Playing funk rhythms at moderat/high speed with a drummer or metronome helped a ton to loosen up/get good sense of accents.

From real live observation, a person with good, minimum tension medium speed basic technique, good ears and rhythm sense, will probably learn high speed playing in about 3-4 years of 1-2 hours a day dedicated, focused practice. The trick is that many, many people never figure out what is the right fast playing technique for them and they get stuck (you can't do it with metronome 5 bpm per day thing - try sprinting very slowly, see what happens  ). it's extremely hard to teach and explain, but some people get it right away, usually by accident.

Maintenance is another story. Paul Gilbert once said that fast picking is like tropical fishes. They look pretty but require a lot of constant effort or they die.


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## TedEH

nkri said:


> my goal for the last 3 has been to advance my picking technique to the level of Petrucci et al


I can't help but ask "why"? I've always thought of myself as being a pretty solid guitar player, but I don't "shred". IMO it's unrealistic to set goals that high - to only aim for the best. To each their own, but for me that's not the point of playing- and even if it was, only very few people are ever going to be "the best". I don't want to be the best, I just want to be good enough to enjoy it and be able to express some stuff. I hear about people practicing picking techniques for hours a day so they can be the best sweep picker in town, and I guess I just don't care enough about my playing to go that far. I've got better things to do. 

No knocking people who do practice that much, or who set high goals, but it does strike me as an odd mindset.


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## Jackson kelly

mdeeRocks said:


> (When I was about 19) It took me about 4 months of about 1 hour practice a day to learn Paul Gilbert's famous picking lick to play it totally effortlessly at high speed. Took me about a month to have very good control of dynamics of it. I had very good left hand technique and I could tremolo pick forever with zero fatigue and minimum movements (that took me about 4 years or so, I have started "late"), 4 months were spent on string crossing and dynamics.
> 
> Now, I didn't do any of this metronome 5 bmp per day nonsense, or I'd be still playing this lick at 90bpm. I basically figured it out first how to play it fast (mostly by short high speed bursts and going by the feeling of tension), then slowed down to get it in control, then did some metronome practice. The technique is different when playing at mid/slow speeds. The major thing was playing what felt (no tension) and sounded right. Playing funk rhythms at moderat/high speed with a drummer or metronome helped a ton to loosen up/get good sense of accents.
> 
> From real live observation, a person with good, minimum tension medium speed basic technique, good ears and rhythm sense, will probably learn high speed playing in about 3-4 years of 1-2 hours a day dedicated, focused practice. The trick is that many, many people never figure out what is the right fast playing technique for them and they get stuck (you can't do it with metronome 5 bpm per day thing - try sprinting very slowly, see what happens  ). it's extremely hard to teach and explain, but some people get it right away, usually by accident.
> 
> Maintenance is another story. Paul Gilbert once said that fast picking is like tropical fishes. They look pretty but require a lot of constant effort or they die.


Bitchin insight man.i really hope i can learn it faster than 4 years. Ive been putting 2 to 3 hours in a day on week days an 6 hours a day ( not in a row ) on weekends. It hets to a point during practice that i peak an also a point where i start to lose it, so i take a break from it. So frustrating though man. So repetitive. Anyways...thanks for the info.


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## mdeeRocks

I'd not rush it. You need time to internalize, sometimes a day of break is a good thing. If you feel it's repetitive change something - play 15-12-14-15-14-12 instead of 12-15-14-12-14-15 etc. Assuming you are aware and control the tension, you should see steady progress nonetheless and this will reinforce your learning. The confidence that you will get there (because you already figured out how to play fast or have a good idea what technique will get you there - I'll repeat it again, tension is the key here, fast playing with good technique doesn't feel any different than playing an E major chord) should give you a lot of patience.
I am still learning myself, even after all years, I don't feel as comfortable as I want to with 2 nps alternate picked patterns for instance.


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## donniekak

Early on I spent 6-10 hours a day on picking. After about 2 years I guess I could shred. 

I'm still not perfectly happy and spend a few hours a week on technique. I always thought my alternate picking was solid, but after watching the Troy Grady stuff and slowing down some video of myself I found out I wasn't doing what I thought I was. Lots of economy picking was mixed in and some swiping.


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## Steinmetzify

I'm still waiting.....


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## xaptronic

I'm still learning. It doesn't take long to learn how to play scales fast. What is hard, is having a melodic motif behind what you're playing and having ways to begin and end phrases.


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## bostjan

When I was pretty new playing, my main goal was to learn how to play "From the Beginning" by Emerson, Lake, and Palmer. A couple years later, it was "Erotomania" by Dream Theater, then "Technical Difficulties" by Racer X, and so on and so on. But every time I'd learn a song that would have been capable of impressing the old me, I'd already know of a song that was on another level beyond that in terms of technique, and I think that's just a never-ending process. Even writing my own parts - always trying to digest new techniques and integrate my own take on those in my own playing, but doing so in a context that is musical and still fun to listen to and to play - it's a journey. You never get to the end of that road.


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## TonyFlyingSquirrel

I started out in the 70's, learning to records (33rpm, 45rpm) in addition to regular theory lessons. I started learning records more exclusively in the 80's and even after playing for 45+ years, I still practice constantly to maintain my current speed, efficiently, cleanliness, etc...


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## KnightBrolaire

I spent years practicing scale runs and legato/other techniques for hours at a time before i felt comfortable playing any shreddy stuff. i'm still a sloppy player compared to a lot of the shreddy guys. the only thing i have going for me is that my ADD actually helped me pick up a bunch of disparate techniques that i've been trying to mold into my own style. the only way to really get good at playing shreddy stuff as far as i'm concerned is to constantly practice and push yourself technique wise.


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## Vyn

Key as some others have mentioned is FOCUSED practice. Half an hour a day of intense practice to a metronome will get you further and faster than 4 hours of noodling in front of a TV.


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## LordCashew

Vyn said:


> Key as some others have mentioned is FOCUSED practice.



Came to say just that. You can play the same thing over and over without much or any improvement if you aren't fully attuned to what you're doing.

The one thing I've ever practiced productively in front of the TV is classical guitar tremolo - just getting the hand movement more and more fluid on muted strings while watching some stupid TV show like Weeds for hours. I came into university with better tremolo than some of the grad students in the guitar studio. And that, by the way, is probably the closest I've come to "shredding." Most of my effort since then has been spent on my reading skills and other more remedial things.


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## KnightBrolaire

LordIronSpatula said:


> Came to say just that. You can play the same thing over and over without much or any improvement if you aren't fully attuned to what you're doing.
> 
> The one thing I've ever practiced productively in front of the TV is classical guitar tremolo - just getting the hand movement more and more fluid on muted strings while watching some stupid TV show like Weeds for hours. I came into university with better tremolo than some of the grad students in the guitar studio. And that, by the way, is probably the closest I've come to "shredding." Most of my effort since then has been spent on my reading skills and other more remedial things.


tremolo is by far the hardest classical guitar technique. it took me ages to get even half decent at it. learning how to play recuerdos de la alhambra still haunts me


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## Vyn

LordIronSpatula said:


> Came to say just that. You can play the same thing over and over without much or any improvement if you aren't fully attuned to what you're doing.
> 
> The one thing I've ever practiced productively in front of the TV is classical guitar tremolo - just getting the hand movement more and more fluid on muted strings while watching some stupid TV show like Weeds for hours. I came into university with better tremolo than some of the grad students in the guitar studio. And that, by the way, is probably the closest I've come to "shredding." Most of my effort since then has been spent on my reading skills and other more remedial things.



So much this. I usually spend 2-4 hours a day playing in total. Two hours of that is just couch noodling but the other two hours is divided into half hour segments of practising one thing over and over, paying attention to dead notes, missed notes, open strings ringing etc and correcting them. For example, at the moment currently I'll do half an hour of one of the Jason Richardson sweeping exercises, then half an hour of each of 3 songs I'm learning at the moment.


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## LordCashew

Vyn said:


> So much this. I usually spend 2-4 hours a day playing in total. Two hours of that is just couch noodling but the other two hours is divided into half hour segments of practising one thing over and over, paying attention to dead notes, missed notes, open strings ringing etc and correcting them. For example, at the moment currently I'll do half an hour of one of the Jason Richardson sweeping exercises, then half an hour of each of 3 songs I'm learning at the moment.



Dividing stuff into segments makes learning new stuff so much more efficient! I struggle not to get trapped by one difficult passage for too long - I'm predisposed to want to get something down in one day and can end up with unbalanced practice routines as a result. Dividing my time into predetermined chunks with their own individual goals has made me way more productive. It's hard to put down something that isn't 100% and move on, but over the course of a week I end up getting way more done.

The other thing I've discovered is that taking breaks makes me more productive as well. If I periodically get up and make myself tea, or do a chore or two, it helps reset my focus and I'm way less likely to end up in a loop where I'm not really thinking about what I'm doing. One my guitar professors told me the brain can only retain optimal focus under normal circumstances for 40ish minutes at a time, and that seems about right based on my own practice sessions.

I think that only really basic mechanical things can be practiced without complete focus. Aside from the aforementioned tremolo, I've actually gotten some improvement on my sweeping technique and some classical right-hand patterns while watching TV - again, just on muted strings, getting the clicks in time. Even those techniques would benefit from greater focus, but doing them in front of the TV was better than nothing.


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## LordCashew

KnightBrolaire said:


> tremolo is by far the hardest classical guitar technique. it took me ages to get even half decent at it. learning how to play recuerdos de la alhambra still haunts me



Have you checked out Scott Tenant's tremolo exercise? The secret is actually to practice it staccato on one string, with each stroke muting the one before. I'm sure the video's on youtube. It does take some dedicated practice to get down, but once you get it you're kind of "done," moreso than other techniques, at least.

Tremolo is really the only difficult thing about Recuerdos honestly. The Bach suites for example are way harder IMO.


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## KnightBrolaire

LordIronSpatula said:


> Have you checked out Scott Tenant's tremolo exercise? The secret is actually to practice it staccato on one string, with each stroke muting the one before. I'm sure the video's on youtube. It does take some dedicated practice to get down, but once you get it you're kind of "done," moreso than other techniques, at least.
> 
> Tremolo is really the only difficult thing about Recuerdos honestly. The Bach suites for example are way harder IMO.


yeah but recuerdos is almost all tremolo. doing tremolo isn't a big problem for me anymore, it's doing it consistently in terms of volume and fluidity.


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