# When "they" talk about 5150 mods



## gunch (Apr 4, 2019)

Are they talking about the FJA mod? And does it really make a 5150 into the most brutal and hateful sounding amp ever?

_Who's they?
_
I don't remember but it was someone on this forum back in the day when people would post threads like _"Which ampzorz is mostest burtals"
_
Trying to deprogram my 5150 h8


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## Miek (Apr 4, 2019)

if you already dislike the sound of 5150s no mod is gonna change that


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## wakjob (Apr 4, 2019)

Jerry packed up shop and moved down to N.C.
I think he's still doing mods though.

5150's are temperamental by nature.
Wrong pickups, wrong tubes, wrong speakers, outta whack bias, ect...and these amps aren't in their happy place.

Plus it's an amp that sounds & works better in a band/mix setting. I'm always wow'd by them at first, then after 20-30 minutes playing with one, I'm ready to move on. For me, it's the gain texture. Too sharp. 

But the 5150 experts will tell ya, they need the right tubes, speakers and volume to get them really rich and satisfying in tone & feel.


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## op1e (Apr 4, 2019)

I think the standard 2 mods are just adjustable bias and choke. One guy I knew that had a modded one liked it better stock. I would Kruse the hell out of an EVH however. That guy is onto some things.


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Apr 4, 2019)

gunch said:


> Are they talking about the FJA mod? And does it really make a 5150 into the most brutal and hateful sounding amp ever?



Why would someone want to mod it to make it sound like something it already is?


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## mnemonic (Apr 4, 2019)

‘Modded’ is a pretty vague term that can mean many things. It could be as basic as adding bias adjustment, or as complex as a complete rebuild of the amp.


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## gunch (Apr 4, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> ‘Modded’ is a pretty vague term that can mean many things. It could be as basic as adding bias adjustment, or as complex as a complete rebuild of the amp.



I understand this and I wish I could remember more about it to better contextualize my question. But googling lead me to KailM's UG threads where he turned his 6505+ combo into a head and modded it to 5150 spec and I remember him using similar language on this board to describe his mods so I guess that's it


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## KailM (Apr 4, 2019)

gunch said:


> I understand this and I wish I could remember more about it to better contextualize my question. But googling lead me to KailM's UG threads where he turned his 6505+ combo into a head and modded it to 5150 spec and I remember him using similar language on this board to describe his mods so I guess that's it



Yo.

Do you have one? Yes, there are a lot of mods you can do. But honestly, the best “mod” you can do to any 5150/6505 is put an EQ pedal in the loop. The stock EQ controls don’t give a very wide range of adjustment and the result is that you sound like pretty much everyone else that plays a 5150 (which arguably is not a bad thing). But once you put an EQ in the loop, that changes. It’s like having the EQ section on a Mesa Mark series.

I use mine to cut fizz, which mostly happens at low volumes, but still sounds better at high volumes too. I also cut some of the 500hz honk.

After that, it is like the meanest thing you’ve ever heard. Mine is plain scary with the post gain on 3.


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## Alex79 (Apr 5, 2019)

wakjob said:


> 5150's are temperamental by nature.
> Wrong pickups, wrong tubes, wrong speakers, outta whack bias, ect...and these amps aren't in their happy place.



I always felt exactly the other way with mine, that it was very forgiving no matter what cab/tubes you used (especially tubes). The EQ section with resonance and presence seemed really well at making things sounds good.


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## Edika (Apr 5, 2019)

Alex79 said:


> I always felt exactly the other way with mine, that it was very forgiving no matter what cab/tubes you used (especially tubes). The EQ section with resonance and presence seemed really well at making things sounds good.



I agree 100% with this. All my guitars sound brutal with my 5150II, regardless of tuning and pickups. The same guitars don't sound equally great on my Laney VH100R as that amp prefers certain pickups and tunings more.


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## wakjob (Apr 5, 2019)

Alex79 said:


> I always felt exactly the other way with mine, that it was very forgiving no matter what cab/tubes you used (especially tubes). The EQ section with resonance and presence seemed really well at making things sounds good.



Correct. I should've predicated my statement by saying that it depends on what 5150 type sound is in your head and want out of the amp.


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## buriedoutback (Apr 5, 2019)

I have a 5150 with a bias mod with JJ tubes (done by me - super easy) and 1 stock with unknown tubes. 

I think the bias mod is the most common 'mod' done (cause it's easy) and I think it does make the amp sound 'better' , but my stock 5150 still rips.

Like KailM said, an EQ in the loop can do wonders. Fresh new tubes can do wonders too.

IME, the most 'noticeable' thing someone can do with a 5150 is the OD/Boost and Cab selection...which I think is common to most/all amps.


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## BenjaminW (Apr 5, 2019)

gunch said:


> I don't remember but it was someone on this forum back in the day when people would post threads like _"Which ampzorz is mostest burtals"
> _
> Trying to deprogram my 5150 h8


I think the ampzorz that is mostest burtals would be a Fender Twin Reverb. It hella djents broski.


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## budda (Apr 5, 2019)

No one has mentioned the cab can do wonders? For shame.


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## VESmedic (Apr 5, 2019)

Literally not one of your favorite records that has a 5150 on it was recorded with a “modded” one. There is no reason to mod them. All the garbage about biased hotter and a choke and all that garbage just takes away what makes that amp sound the way it does. It was designed the way it was for a reason, if someone doesn’t like it, move on. The amp was designed to have a cold bias to keep clarity and tightness and definition as the amp is turned up, it’s designed this way for a reason. Read up on the design of it and why they did what they did and you’ll understand. Every 5150 that’s modded is pure garbage in my opinion.


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## DrakkarTyrannis (Apr 5, 2019)

VESmedic said:


> Literally not one of your favorite records that has a 5150 on it was recorded with a “modded” one. There is no reason to mod them. All the garbage about biased hotter and a choke and all that garbage just takes away what makes that amp sound the way it does. It was designed the way it was for a reason, if someone doesn’t like it, move on. The amp was designed to have a cold bias to keep clarity and tightness and definition as the amp is turned up, it’s designed this way for a reason. Read up on the design of it and why they did what they did and you’ll understand. Every 5150 that’s modded is pure garbage in my opinion.



If I recall there have been a few modded 5150 amps on albums. Machine Head had a few.

Secondly, amp mods are to tailor an already great amp to a person's needs. It's not something you need done to make it sound good, it's something you get done to take an already great amp and make it your own.

The 5152 is a modded 5150...the Invective (or whatever the hell that thing is called) is a modded 5150. Pure garbage? No..just tweaked.


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## Bentaycanada (Apr 5, 2019)

You just need one of these!


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## Korneo (Apr 6, 2019)

Damned, this Defizzator does a great job ! But I prefer the sound without..

My previous 6505 was a fantastic amp, until I mod it...
A bias and a choke mod are some cool stuff. The amp still have is own character but is better.

Then I give it to a shitty tech who made some capacitor replacement and I don't like it anymore...
After 10+ years, I finally sold it with a ton of regrets and haven't buy a new head since then (I play with VST now).
If I buy a new head, it will be a 5150/6505 and don't mod it (or at least choke and bias) or a PRS Archon (totally different flavor).

If you want to have it modded, give it to a tech who know what he do, really.


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## MASS DEFECT (Apr 6, 2019)

Anybody got any experience with Kruse mods? He lists down pretty interesting 5150 mods from his website. I just dont know what his rep is. FJA mods gets expensive fast.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 6, 2019)

You’re all welcome to your opinions... except when you say all modded 5150s are garbage. Because that is just wrong. 

Anywho... I own several modded ones and probably 10 total of the series. I’ve had Peavey guitars and amps since the 90s and I ummm have a modest collection going at this point lol.

A super quick summary...

The original (block and sig dammit!) had 5 preamp tubes. Nothing else was different other than stock tubes it came with. The 5150II added a 6th.

Later on, Peavey changed output transformer manufacturer and circuit board layout, right before EVH left and they rebranded it the 6505.

All were MIA, except the 112 combo which was MIC. Newest 6505 I believe are MIC. The 5150-III (more below) are MIM or Vietnam IIRC.

Years later EVH started his EVH Gear brand, which is a division of FMIC. The deal he negotiated was his own brand name on it and not “Fender EVH”. The 5150III is more similar to the modded 5150s that FJAMODs, Voodoo, etc created through the years. It has a separate clean and crunch channel (which my FJA 5150-I has) and so the III has 8 preamp tubes. The III has upgraded output transformer and choke which is also a common mod. Lastly it also has some cap and resistor changes (I have it somewhere in an email) that were common mods to tame the fizz and flubb. With my fav FJA 5150 it has these but with pots instead of fixed, so I can dial in the mid freq and cut, and it has a bass contour to tighten up lows, push/pull gain boost, push/pull tone shift, mid boost, and maybe some others I forget lol.

If you A/B them, my 5150 FJAMOD sounds most like the 5150-III, unless you tweak the settings back to stock-ish and then it sounds like a 5150-I. Regarding cleans, the III is the best with a Fender sounding clean and the 5150 is the "worst" (in the sense that it is grimy like a DrZ). The 5150 FJA has a very good dry-sounding clean but not as good as III (although I might be able to dial it in closer if I spent the time tweaking the mods to get it there?).

Hopefully Jerry gets his NC shop up and running soon!


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## KailM (Apr 6, 2019)

Bentaycanada said:


> You just need one of these!





That is exactly what I get with my MXR 10-band's 16khz slider turned down. Same great tone inherent in the 5150, but no more fizz. That's a pretty cool little pedal though, and I think a great addition for folks that are thinking about the bias mod but don't want to have an overly complicated signal chain. For the price though, you can get a used MXR EQ and get that effect + more.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 6, 2019)

Anyways... The "best mods" for a 5150 have already been mentioned in other threads and aren't necessarily that expensive:

12AT7 or 5751 in PI slot (greatly removes fizz and makes gain usable to 10)
5751 in V1 will lower dirt gain
JJ Electronic ECC83MG / 12AX7MG in P1 (mid gain version, tighter dirt and not as fizzy)
If combo, get rid of Sheffield speakers
Upgraded output tranny
Experiment with preamp tubes - I like the MG above and JJ Gold Pin ECC803 or ECC83.


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## VESmedic (Apr 6, 2019)

Still completely disagree.... one or two machine head albums with unknown “mods” to a 5150 pales in comparison to the hundreds of records done with stock 5150s... changing a preamp tube here and there, okay yea sure, fine. That is hardly a “mod” in the sense that the term is usually applied. Find me one great record that has a 5150 with a bias mod, or a voodoo mod, or a choke, or whatever... I’ll wait... the original poster hinted at that he is under the impression that “they” ( whoever they is) state modding a 5150 with these type of mods makes a 5150 more brutal or whatever. That is simply not the case. The fja and voodoo style mods over the years generally take away what makes a 5150, well, a 5150.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 6, 2019)

VESmedic said:


> Still completely disagree.... one or two machine head albums with unknown “mods” to a 5150 pales in comparison to the hundreds of records done with stock 5150s... changing a preamp tube here and there, okay yea sure, fine. That is hardly a “mod” in the sense that the term is usually applied. Find me one great record that has a 5150 with a bias mod, or a voodoo mod, or a choke, or whatever... I’ll wait... the original poster hinted at that he is under the impression that “they” ( whoever they is) state modding a 5150 with these type of mods makes a 5150 more brutal or whatever. That is simply not the case. The fja and voodoo style mods over the years generally take away what makes a 5150, well, a 5150.



So you know the status of every amp used ever? They were all stock? Mmmkay. SMDH.

Literally, guys like Friedman, Dumble, Soldano, Fortin, Bogner, etc all got their start HEAVILY modding stock amps for musicians. Everything from simple mods like tubes and speakers, to rewiring the amp with different component values, to biasing cold/hot, etc. Then those became their stock models. Then people modded theirs.

Guys like Eric Johnson were particular down to the charge in the battery in their pedals. As far back as Les Paul, musicians modded their guitars. EVH is famous for tweaking everything down to how he twisted his string before he thread it through the tuning peg. Never mind running your amp through a variac...


tl;dr you're certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it's a shit one.


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## VESmedic (Apr 6, 2019)

Oh really!? Wow, I had no idea, thanks for the history lesson! For what it’s worth, some of my best friends have recorded some of the top metal albums of the last 15 or so years in a studio called audiohammer down in Florida, maybe you’ve heard of it... my opinion is based on world class engineers and producers, who have shared tons of knowledge over the years and have often used my own personal gear on several big records... but hey, you keep reading the forums for all the “real” info!


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## USMarine75 (Apr 6, 2019)

VESmedic said:


> Oh really!? Wow, I had no idea, thanks for the history lesson! For what it’s worth, some of my best friends have recorded some of the top metal albums of the last 15 or so years in a studio called audiohammer down in Florida, maybe you’ve heard of it... my opinion is based on world class engineers and producers, who have shared tons of knowledge over the years and have often used my own personal gear on several big records... but hey, you keep reading the forums for all the “real” info!



Cool.


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## narad (Apr 6, 2019)

I don't know about you, but I don't define how brutal my amp sounds by how many albums were recorded with it. You could record a metal album with a jazz chorus and an HM2 and have it sound maximally brutal if you have good engineers on it.


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## VESmedic (Apr 6, 2019)

narad said:


> I don't know about you, but I don't define how brutal my amp sounds by how many albums were recorded with it. You could record a metal album with a jazz chorus and an HM2 and have it sound maximally brutal if you have good engineers on it.




You’re missing what I’m saying in a way. I am not saying the amps brutality is defined by how many records it’s on, but there is a correlation to how great it sounds for a certain style of music, and how often it’s used, would you not agree? The amp is so often used ( stock) because of how well it works for this type of music, that’s given. But it’s more than that, it’s how it’s high end sits against other tracks, how it fits In a mix etc, it’s the midrange character, etc. all those things matter, and many of these mods chop out a lot of those things that make a 5150 sit in a track the way it does... And yes, an hm2 into a jazz chorus would sound “brutal” and hey may work for certain things, you never know. But when you state a good engineer can “make it work” so to speak,that is of course true. But a good engineer would also tell you that getting it right at the source first is ideal and not having to “polish a turd” later. And maybe a jazz chorus and an hm2 IS what fits the track, you never know.


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## narad (Apr 6, 2019)

VESmedic said:


> You’re missing what I’m saying in a way. I am not saying the amps brutality is defined by how many records it’s on, but there is a correlation to how great it sounds for a certain style of music, and how often it’s used, would you not agree? The amp is so often used ( stock) because of how well it works for this type of music, that’s given. But it’s more than that, it’s how it’s high end sits against other tracks, how it fits In a mix etc, it’s the midrange character, etc. all those things matter, and many of these mods chop out a lot of those things that make a 5150 sit in a track the way it does... And yes, an hm2 into a jazz chorus would sound “brutal” and hey may work for certain things, you never know. But when you state a good engineer can “make it work” so to speak,that is of course true. But a good engineer would also tell you that getting it right at the source first is ideal and not having to “polish a turd” later. And maybe a jazz chorus and an hm2 IS what fits the track, you never know.



Sure, but I don't think then that the absence of these proportionately much rarer modded 5150s on metal albums would imply that they are less brutal, which I think is what you were getting at earlier. i.e., that if they were more brutal, bands and producers would go out of their way to get and use them. 

But as you just said, the engineer can make it work but would prefer to begin from the best starting point: while a stock 5150 and modded one may sound different in the room, and one person may feel the modded one is more brutal, they are both exceptionally good starting points. Given that, it's really no wonder that most studios would have stock amps, both by the general availability of them and by their use in the studio context. A lot of studios stock JVMs, lots of JVMs on albums -- but pretty rare to meet anyone that says JVM tone is their 100% reference Marshall tone, playing one in the room. So as an argument, I think the studio stuff is off the mark.

That said, I don't think there's really an answer to OPs question, until we all agree on what sounds brutal. I'd prefer stock + eq pedal though.


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## gunch (Apr 6, 2019)

Come on guys I'm just trying to do my due diligence here and maybe increase my appreciation a little  I've said before I think it's probably the best amp for black metal I just think it's overrated/reccomended for DM and (x)core sounds

I did go out and get a basic overview of the whole lineage like

SLO-100 -> 5150 -> 5150 II -> 6505/6505+ -> 5150 III

Thank you for the good info and discussion


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## mnemonic (Apr 6, 2019)

I’m not sure how one can say modded amps are garbage but also say the 5150 isn’t garbage. 

Really ought to be saying anything other than a Fender Bassman is garbage, if you want to have any level of consistency.


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## budda (Apr 6, 2019)

The only mods a 5150 needs is EL34's or 6550's.

Those who know, know.


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## rexbinary (Apr 6, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Anybody got any experience with Kruse mods? He lists down pretty interesting 5150 mods from his website. I just dont know what his rep is. FJA mods gets expensive fast.



I had Jens mod my LBX. I didn't get any tone mods really though. I had him add a clean toggle on the blue channel, and concentric gain and volume pots. Solid work, and a quick turnaround. No issues with his work at all. I do wish I had gotten the Supersonic mod while I was at it though.


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## VESmedic (Apr 6, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> I’m not sure how one can say modded amps are garbage but also say the 5150 isn’t garbage.
> 
> Really ought to be saying anything other than a Fender Bassman is garbage, if you want to have any level of consistency.





Wow... nice reading comprehension skills...not once did I say that “modded amps are garbage”. I did however say the “popular” mods done to a 5150 by voodoo and and others, are complete garbage. Just because “some” amps sound better modded ( again, just like my opinion, it’s all subjective) like Marshall’s, does not mean the vast majority of amps, or any others for that matter, sound Better modded. There is literally no correlation between those statements.


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## VESmedic (Apr 6, 2019)

This is what is wrong with forums like this. so many people regurgitating information online that has been spewed out as truth over the last 20 years, dating to way back since the HCAF days. I am willing to bet more than 90 percent of the people commenting in this thread about this topic have never even heard one of these “modded” amps, or owned one, or TRACKED with one. Jesus, nowadays you almost have to ask, raise your hand if you’ve ever even owned a real amp before or played live... full discretion, that statement is coming from a 7 year Kemper owner, so not knocking modeling amps at all here.


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## mnemonic (Apr 6, 2019)

Calm down dude. Maybe you need another hobby.


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## mnemonic (Apr 6, 2019)

VESmedic said:


> Wow... nice reading comprehension skills...not once did I say that “modded amps are garbage”. I did however say the “popular” mods done to a 5150 by voodoo and and others, are complete garbage. Just because “some” amps sound better modded ( again, just like my opinion, it’s all subjective) like Marshall’s, does not mean the vast majority of amps, or any others for that matter, sound Better modded. There is literally no correlation between those statements.



I thought you said every 5150 that’s modded is pure garbage. 




Technically I think the 5150ii and 5150iii would fit in there right? 6534 also?


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## Cynicanal (Apr 6, 2019)

All this talk of trying to get rid of "teh fizz", and it all ignores that the fizz is _why_ a 5150 sounds so fucking vicious in the first place.

Embrace the beehive.


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## VESmedic (Apr 6, 2019)

mnemonic said:


> Calm down dude. Maybe you need another hobby.




Who said I’m only a hobbyist, like the vast majority of the people on this forum regurgitating information they have heard was true? That’s right, I didn’t...

And fair enough, I did say that all 5150 mods are garbage, and I still stand by that. Changing a power tube section as in the 6534 is not exactly what I would consider a “mod” personally. Sure, it’s a modification if you want to get technical, but not in the sense the word is most often used. Putting in chokes, changing OT’s, altering caps etc, that to me is true modding. Which again, that’s what these guys do to these Amps when you pay 4-500 bucks for them to kill it. I’ve already been down this road and answered this question.

And the 5153 is hardly anything remotely the same as the PEAVEY 5150... let’s just forget the fact that it’s made by an entirely DIFFERENT company all together for starters, it is nothing like the 5150 under the hood. Try not to get wrapped up in the fact that it says “ 5150” on it... it ain’t the same, and sound hardly anything alike. In fact I’ll go farther than that, they sound absolutely nothing alike, they only Bare the same name because of the guy behind it, EVH.


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## VESmedic (Apr 6, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> All this talk of trying to get rid of "teh fizz", and it all ignores that the fizz is _why_ a 5150 sounds so fucking vicious in the first place.
> 
> Embrace the beehive.




Thank you... someone who gets it.


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## MASS DEFECT (Apr 6, 2019)

budda said:


> The only mods a 5150 needs is EL34's or 6550's.
> 
> Those who know, know.



Eh not really. In my experience. The el34 5150 family amps sounded looser and much more nasal than their 6l6 brethren. This is true for the 6534 vs 6505+ and the evh 6l6 vs el34. I mean the blue channel on the evh el34 is just so dark compared to the magic of the 6l6 blue.


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## KailM (Apr 6, 2019)

LOL at some of you guys.  

Not sure we're all talking about the same thing when we say "fizz." I'm talking about the white noise above 12khz. It neither hurts nor helps in the mix, because it largely disappears. But when you cut some of it, it sure as hell sounds better at home.

The real magic in a 5150, IMO, is the way it handles the low end around 125hz and that ruthless midrange grind in the 2khz region.

It's almost as if people have different preferences in their fucking tone. 

Also, I've got a 5153 as well. The way I have it and my 6505 mk 1 dialed, they sound pretty damned similar, so much so, that if I A/B'd them in a gig I'm not sure anyone else could tell the difference. It helps to dial-in an amp with your ears, not your eyes.


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## budda (Apr 6, 2019)

MASS DEFECT said:


> Eh not really. In my experience. The el34 5150 family amps sounded looser and much more nasal than their 6l6 brethren. This is true for the 6534 vs 6505+ and the evh 6l6 vs el34. I mean the blue channel on the evh el34 is just so dark compared to the magic of the 6l6 blue.



Maybe it's just because I like to run slabs of mahogany through everything, but EL34's are great . The first time I tried a 6534+ I was like "ah yes, this sounds absolutely glorious".

That's why some people love dual recs and some guys love boosted marshalls.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 7, 2019)

So are Peavey or EVH any good then? I'm thinking about trying one...

Maybe a block letter I hear good things about those...

I guess I'll stay away from modded then.


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## prlgmnr (Apr 7, 2019)

Man I think some people in here are biased a bit hot, maybe want to get looked at by a tech.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 7, 2019)

prlgmnr said:


> Man I think some people in here are biased a bit hot, maybe want to get looked at by a tech.


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## prlgmnr (Apr 7, 2019)

don't mod me, bro


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## USMarine75 (Apr 7, 2019)

prlgmnr said:


> don't mod me, bro








Say 'mod' again. Say 'mod' again, I dare you, I double dare you motherf'r, say 'mod' one more G'damn time!


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## laxu (Apr 7, 2019)

Cynicanal said:


> All this talk of trying to get rid of "teh fizz", and it all ignores that the fizz is _why_ a 5150 sounds so fucking vicious in the first place.
> 
> Embrace the beehive.



Exactly. It sounds like ass when playing on your own but add drums, bass and volume and that fizz helps you cut through but is not perceived to be there. The Soldano SLO is similar in this regard.


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## op1e (Apr 7, 2019)

I ran my 6505mh thru my loop switcher into my rm100 again last night. Lordy Lord. If you want a kt88 5150 that's the way to go. Looking over at my $400 modded module like "dude, c'mon get up". Think I'm gonna have to get the Synergy SLO module and post eq it into 5150 territory.


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## VESmedic (Apr 7, 2019)

op1e said:


> I ran my 6505mh thru my loop switcher into my rm100 again last night. Lordy Lord. If you want a kt88 5150 that's the way to go. Looking over at my $400 modded module like "dude, c'mon get up". Think I'm gonna have to get the Synergy SLO module and post eq it into 5150 territory.




This is a cool trick, 5150s sound great with kt88 power amps fo sho. That was a setup on a few albums I was a part of. VHT 2/90/2 power amp pushing the 5150s preamp. Sounded wild, didn’t work for all the tracks but a few it was killer.


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## USMarine75 (May 6, 2019)

Not sure where else to post this... but an interview with the man himself.


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## Taylor2 (May 6, 2019)

VESmedic said:


> Oh really!? Wow, I had no idea, thanks for the history lesson! For what it’s worth, some of my best friends have recorded some of the top metal albums of the last 15 or so years in a studio called audiohammer down in Florida, maybe you’ve heard of it... my opinion is based on world class engineers and producers, who have shared tons of knowledge over the years and have often used my own personal gear on several big records... but hey, you keep reading the forums for all the “real” info!





VESmedic said:


> This is what is wrong with forums like this. so many people regurgitating information online that has been spewed out as truth over the last 20 years, dating to way back since the HCAF days. I am willing to bet more than 90 percent of the people commenting in this thread about this topic have never even heard one of these “modded” amps, or owned one, or TRACKED with one. Jesus, nowadays you almost have to ask, raise your hand if you’ve ever even owned a real amp before or played live... full discretion, that statement is coming from a 7 year Kemper owner, so not knocking modeling amps at all here.




Guy what's wrong with forums is people like you who come in here name dropping acting like you know better than everyone else. I've been tracking and recording for over 10 years and I'd never ever write off an amp without testing it first. Some mods are garbage and some aren't. I've played through modded 5150's and while it's not for me I could totally see a use for one in a studio if you ever got tired of the same 3 tones a 5150 provides. 
I'm pretty sure I've seen Mark mention that he likes modded 5150's occasionally.


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## USMarine75 (May 7, 2019)

Taylor2 said:


> Guy what's wrong with forums is people like you who come in here name dropping acting like you know better than everyone else. I've been tracking and recording for over 10 years and I'd never ever write off an amp without testing it first. Some mods are garbage and some aren't. I've played through modded 5150's and while it's not for me I could totally see a use for one in a studio if you ever got tired of the same 3 tones a 5150 provides.
> I'm pretty sure I've seen Mark mention that he likes modded 5150's occasionally.



I guess the point I was trying to make is many of the amps on the market are just rebranded modded amps. Friedman didn't reinvent the wheel here. Change a few resistor values, preference of caps, plate voltage switch, modern voicing, etc... but 95% same circuit. The majority of these amps didnt start out as a fresh design. Guys like Soldano, Bogner, Randall, Splawn, Friedman, Bartel (Tone King), Gerald Weber, etc took existing amps and tweaked it. Eventually, they garnered a cult following because they made a few for some famous musicians (Clapton, EVH, etc) and people wanted their own... so they put their own nameplate on that modded Marshall or whatever, and boom a company is born.

Some "mods" are as simple as just swapping gain stages between models or brands. Most Friedmans are his Brown Eye mod to a Marshall, mated with a Vox or Fender clean. The Dirty Shirley is a modded JTM45. The Runt is a Brown Eyed Marshall plus Fender-ish clean and the Small Box is the same with a Plexi clean IIRC? And the JBE is just the "Jerry Brown Eye" mod for Jerry Cantrell.

Was anyone here under the assumption the Mesa JP2C was a new design? From the Mesa website - "And YES… it’s a MARK IIC+! A next generation Re-Issue of the legendary amp so many Recording Artists, MESA enthusiasts and Tone Freaks the world over covet, often searching high and low to find. Only THIS IIC+ pulls in an enhanced feature set born from our collaboration with John over a period of three decades of research and development."

The same is true of the majority of pedal makers. JHS, Fortin, VFE, Wilson Effects, Vick Audio, etc. All modding existing designs. The funny thing is the unique designs usually have meh sales. It's the modded rebranded ones that sell the best... TS variants, Bluesbreaker, RATs, not to mention the majority of FX clones (oh look a another delay pedal).

Wrap your head around this ridiculous [email protected]: The 5150 signature is a modded 5150 BLOCK LETTER. They modded it (the only change) by changing the stock tubes from the factory to garbage ones. The 5150-II is a modded 5150-I... it has one extra preamp tube. And the EVH 5153 is a modded 5150/6505... FMIC took the 3-channel Voodoo/FJA modded modded design (with tranny, choke, resistor, cap changes) and added a Fender clean. Don't even get me started on EBMM EVH -> Peavey Wolfgang -> FMIC/EVH Wolfgang lol.

I'm literally blown away that people are hating on mods (dammit @Randy)...

tl;dr you probably own a modded amp already... maybe you're playing it with your Charvel Pro-Mod?


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## cardinal (May 7, 2019)

All I know is that I'm pretty pumped. Found what looked like a reasonable price for a block letter 5150 so went for it. Figure I should be able to sell it down the road for what it cost me (or at least I won't lose a ton of money like I do with everything else!).

Haven't played one of these in a lonnnnggggg time. Been using old Marshalls, which sound killer, but I have an urge for a METAL amp and am super exited to get a 5150 fired up.

As for modding an amp: go for it. It's fun to tinker with stuff. I do think it's good to keep perspective: stock 5150s and JCM 800s and Rectifiers etc. have been used to record tons of massively successful records. So if you're playing one of these amps and think "man this thing sucks!" either the amp is broken or you just aren't going to like it no matter what. But if you play through one and dig it and wish it just was a little more X or a little less Y, sure: some tinkering with component changes can do that. Smaller coupling caps can tighten up bass frequencies. More or less negative feedback can tighten it up the response and maybe cut some fizz. Changing the resistor values on some of the preamp cathodes can increase the gain and warmth or drop the gain and make things tighter, etc. 

Just have fun with it.


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## MASS DEFECT (May 7, 2019)

I don't know about you guys, but I like my 5150/6505s with the stock bias. It lends to how tight they are in loud volumes. Sure you do get some fizz modded or not but I have played through biased ones and found them to have more gain and more mud in the low mids than what I really need. 

I mean maybe dont bias it too hot? The cold bias was the intended design.


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## sakeido (May 7, 2019)

My 6505+ is a combo to head conversion and the previous owner modded it in a couple subtle ways. The bias is warmer. I'm thinkin back when EVH was actually playing these, he 100% had the bias tweaked. It sounds much more like something he would have played himself - Unchained sounds bang on. The newer 5150-3s will do EVH sounds plus brutal death metal... the older ones just never sounded like something he would have used. Lead tones on the 6505+ conversion are also sick. Way, way better than the 6505+ head I had.

But I want to un-do the mod and go back to cold bias. Gimme that pissed off buzzsaw of hate plz

How about, it's your amp. Fuck with it however you please. 5150s are not rare animals at all, it's not like you are tearing up a SLO or something. Don't let the internet tell you what to do with your dime a dozen cheap amp


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## Taylor2 (May 7, 2019)

sakeido said:


> How about, it's your amp. Fuck with it however you please. 5150s are not rare animals at all, it's not like you are tearing up a SLO or something. Don't let the internet tell you what to do with your dime a dozen cheap amp



this right here

At this point we all know what a 5150 sounds like so why not fuck with it and see what you can do. Maybe it sucks, or maybe you make the next Fortin Meshuggah. For the price of a used 5150 who cares


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## Seabeast2000 (May 7, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> Not sure where else to post this... but an interview with the man himself.




This is good stuff.


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## WarMachine (May 7, 2019)

USMarine75 hit the nail on the head there. I remember reading (or watching lol, can't remember THAT well) an interview with Mike Soldano about how he got started out. He was talking about how he was an amp repair guy and that the guys that would drop their amps off were happier after he tinkered with them - by them i mean Marshalls - than when the guys had them before. He was modding the boards/guts etc to give them more life. Eventually he said f*ck it and started making his own amps based on the JCM800's. Case and point; 99% if not more of the amps out there are a modified version of another. Just the way it is. 5150? Slightly modded SLO100 that EVH + James Brown badged with Peavey. Modded? Yes. Kicks ass? *Absolutely.*


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## WarMachine (May 7, 2019)

cardinal said:


> Been using old Marshalls, which sound killer, but I have an urge for a METAL amp and am super exited to get a 5150 fired up.


This reminds me of my first real experience with a JCM800. We had just got finished the night before with a great show and a hard, HARD night of partying lol. There was an older dude hanging with us, at the time i want to say he was in his mid to late 40's. He kept going on about wanting me to check out his JCM800. When we all finally woke up he's like "dude, you ready to jam on that thing?" I was like a kid in a candy store lol. Growing up all my favorite guitarists used the JCM800 and i always thought that with my 5150 i was just going to have to deal until i could get a JCM. I set the EQ, turned on the OD and.....was underwhelmed as shit. I remember looking at the amp like it just took a dump on my head hahaha. I jammed on it for about 10 minutes and i was like "thanks dude, but i'll stick with the 5150". I had no idea how much of a true fire-breather of an amp it really was. Sorry to derail dudes, that just reminded me of a funny story.


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## cardinal (May 7, 2019)

WarMachine said:


> This reminds me of my first real experience with a JCM800. We had just got finished the night before with a great show and a hard, HARD night of partying lol. There was an older dude hanging with us, at the time i want to say he was in his mid to late 40's. He kept going on about wanting me to check out his JCM800. When we all finally woke up he's like "dude, you ready to jam on that thing?" I was like a kid in a candy store lol. Growing up all my favorite guitarists used the JCM800 and i always thought that with my 5150 i was just going to have to deal until i could get a JCM. I set the EQ, turned on the OD and.....was underwhelmed as shit. I remember looking at the amp like it just took a dump on my head hahaha. I jammed on it for about 10 minutes and i was like "thanks dude, but i'll stick with the 5150". I had no idea how much of a true fire-breather of an amp it really was. Sorry to derail dudes, that just reminded me of a funny story.



That’s pretty funny. I have an old JCM 800 and Super Lead. I love them for what they are, and with hot pickups and a boost like an 808 or SD-1 (and maybe a Power Station/attenuator), they can really breath fire.

But they ain’t a 5150!


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## WarMachine (May 7, 2019)

cardinal said:


> That’s pretty funny. I have an old JCM 800 and Super Lead. I love them for what they are, and with hot pickups and a boost like an 808 or SD-1 (and maybe a Power Station/attenuator), they can really breath fire.
> 
> But they ain’t a 5150!


For sure dude, giving credit where credit's due, it just wasn't for me. Although the OD the dude had paired with it was something old that even he didn't know what it was lol. It had a 12AX7 in it also, would've LOVED to tried it with an SD-1.


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## USMarine75 (May 8, 2019)

Forgot about Paul Rivera... he started at Fender and his big thing was modding stock Fender amps.


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## MASS DEFECT (May 8, 2019)

^Mesa's Randall Smith started out modding Fender Princetons or maybe Bassmans. I think Mark 1 was just a modded Princeton with an additional gain stage.


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## USMarine75 (May 11, 2019)

We should probably have started with Jim Marshall and his first amp...

"They were almost copies of the Bassman circuit, with American military-surplus 5881 power valves, a relative of the 6L6. Few speakers were then able to handle more than 15 watts, which meant that an amplifier approaching 50 watts had to use four speakers. For their Bassman, Fender used four Jensen speakers in the same cabinet as the amplifier, but Marshall chose to separate the amplifier from the speakers, and placed four 12-inch Celestion speakers in a separate closed-back cabinet instead of the four 10-inch Jensens in an open-back combo. Other crucial differences included the use of higher-gain ECC83 valves throughout the preamp, and the introduction of a capacitor/resistor filter after the volume control. These circuit changes gave the amp more gain so that it broke into overdrive sooner on the volume control than the Bassman, and boosted the treble frequencies. This new amplifier, tentatively called the "Mark II", was eventually named the "JTM 45", after Jim and his son Terry Marshall and the maximum wattage of the amplifier. Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, and other blues rock-based bands from the late 1960s such as Free used Marshall stacks both in the studio and live on stage making them among the most sought after and most popular amplifiers in the industry."


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## USMarine75 (May 11, 2019)

Also this just came up on my feed...


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## cardinal (May 11, 2019)

Stock, modded, just knock yourself out but it doesn’t inspire you to play juvenile chugga chugga with a big smile on your face, something’s gone wrong. What a just plain fun amp.


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## narad (May 11, 2019)

USMarine75 said:


> Also this just came up on my feed...




Thought it'd just be a regurgitation of this thread but actually learned a thing or two


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## cardinal (May 11, 2019)

Damn the 5150 is so much fun. Sounds tight and mean even on the low F# string. Brilliant metal machine.


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## dbwalker (Apr 25, 2020)

Hi all, I know I'm new here and this is kinda an old thread, I was reading up on 5150 mods as I own a couple, just curious what people have done to them over the years.
Anyway I noticed comments about Machine Head using modded 5150s which is why I joined to ad my 2 cents, their first 2 albums were recorded with one of my 5150 heads wich is not modded, dont know what they used after the first 2 albums though, what I can say from memory is that on the first album the guitars hit an old Ibanez tube screamer then in to the rhythm channel, all the cleans on the album were through a Carvin X100B head that was in my amp rack


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## USMarine75 (Apr 25, 2020)

dbwalker said:


> Hi all, I know I'm new here and this is kinda an old thread, I was reading up on 5150 mods as I own a couple, just curious what people have done to them over the years.
> Anyway I noticed comments about Machine Head using modded 5150s which is why I joined to ad my 2 cents, their first 2 albums were recorded with one of my 5150 heads wich is not modded, dont know what they used after the first 2 albums though, what I can say from memory is that on the first album the guitars hit an old Ibanez tube screamer then in to the rhythm channel, all the cleans on the album were through a Carvin X100B head that was in my amp rack



Greetings and welcome!

Check out FJAMODs to start...

http://www.fjamods.com/

I don't think he's taking on any work just yet since he moved. I have two of his amps. Voodoo Mods also used to do Peavey mods, as do a lot of other amp tweakers.

Basically, the common mods are new bigger output transformer, true 3rd clean channel, as well as some tweaks (resistor values) to take out some fizz. Some others like mine have are mid sweep, tightness control, and external bias.

For simple tweaks you can do, change the PI preamp tube to a 12AT7, 5751, or 12AU7. It makes the gain more usable all the way to 10, as well as smoother. Experiment with preamp tubes as well... some are more harsh than others.


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## dbwalker (Apr 25, 2020)

I rarely even plug in to them anymore, I dont play in bands anymore so generally plug in to a little marshall practice amp I have, lot easier and quiter to deal with in the living room, on a rare occasion I'll go and jam with a couple friends and I take my rig with me, but has become increasingly rare over the past 10 years, gaining more usable control out of the preamp gain does interest me


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## oneblackened (Apr 25, 2020)

I actually did some mods on my 5150 II, and I have more planned.

What I've done:
1. Added a 10H choke to the screen supply. This was a good move, and would recommend it. Tightened the amp considerably.
2. OG 5150 overdrive. This was a choice thing - I like the thickness of the original 5150 that the II doesn't have.
3. Adjusted the bias range. This was a straight up improvement over stock. I'm not biasing it hot (usually 50-55%), but I'm out of crossover distortion. It got rid of the messy top end.

What I've got planned:
1. Convert the tonestack driver to a cathode follower. Part of the reason the tonestack doesn't do much is because it's plate fed. That makes them less effective because the signal gets loaded down a lot. Changing that stage to a cathode follower should also reduce the distortion some (It's still 5 gain stages before it, though, so I wouldn't worry about it). It should move the amp in the direction of the SLO sonically.
2. Change the gain pot for a 500K. That should give me more usable range on the gain control.
3. Higher value filter caps (to SLO levels - so 220uF total for B+, 110uF for screens) - which should tighten the amp's response even more.
4. Change NFB to SLO value (4 ohm tap instead of 8 ohm - less NFB than stock).


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## Gudbrand (Apr 26, 2020)

I plan to work on my 6505+ to mod the lead channel back to SLO or original 5150 specs. It's just a couple value changes. That seems like the best compromise, since you get the original lead channel plus better cleans.

In researching what to change, I came across this great list of suggested mods by an actual tech. May have to try some of them too:

https://atomiumamps.tumblr.com/post/93934284126/5150-ii-6505-mods


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## viifox (Apr 26, 2020)

Alex79 said:


> I always felt exactly the other way with mine, that it was very forgiving no matter what cab/tubes you used (especially tubes). The EQ section with resonance and presence seemed really well at making things sounds good.


This


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## USMarine75 (Apr 26, 2020)

Gudbrand said:


> I plan to work on my 6505+ to mod the lead channel back to SLO or original 5150 specs. It's just a couple value changes. That seems like the best compromise, since you get the original lead channel plus better cleans.
> 
> In researching what to change, I came across this great list of suggested mods by an actual tech. May have to try some of them too:
> 
> https://atomiumamps.tumblr.com/post/93934284126/5150-ii-6505-mods



Interesting. Never heard of them before but I'd be curious how spot on they are. Post clips.


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## Gudbrand (Apr 26, 2020)

USMarine75 said:


> Interesting. Never heard of them before but I'd be curious how spot on they are. Post clips.



Will do! I'm hoping to get to this in the next few weeks.

I'm also kind of hoping to find another for cheap, so I can have both an unmodded and a modded version. Probably excessive, but what the hell. Same goes for Peavey Rockmaster preamps - I have two, so I can mod one and compare to the stock version.


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## USMarine75 (Apr 27, 2020)

Gudbrand said:


> Will do! I'm hoping to get to this in the next few weeks.
> 
> I'm also kind of hoping to find another for cheap, so I can have both an unmodded and a modded version. Probably excessive, but what the hell. Same goes for Peavey Rockmaster preamps - I have two, so I can mod one and compare to the stock version.



there are killer rock master mods to make it more 5150-like instead of XXX.


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