# Chord progression/arpeggio trouble



## FEEDTHEPLAGUE (Dec 3, 2009)

Having some trouble with a chord progression. So, here's the deal.

We're playing a riff, made up of rythmic stuff on the open low B string with a mix of "almost" chords. I say "almost" chords because it's just made up of 2 notes, wich doesn't make a chord. My problems are about these notes.
I'm wanting to play some sweet sweep arpegios over these chords and need to find out wich third note to use in the arpegios to make some nice progression. But i just can't seem to find any good notes to use, and it feels like i've tried most of the stuff i know (wich isn't much, theory is something completely new to me) Can you guys please help me?

So the almost chords are like this:
B, D
D, F#
C#, E
A#, C#

in that order they are played, just need some pointers on what third note to add to them to make it sound good as a progression, 'cause this is killing me!


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Dec 3, 2009)

First off, your "almost chords" are what are known as dyads - chords that only have two notes in them. In guitar music, these are usually open fifths and fourths. What you have is thirds. Believe it or not, a third is all you need to imply a chord. That said, we can group your dyads into two fully-voiced chords:

B, D and D, F#, put together, spell a Bm chord (B D F#).
C#, E and A# C#, put together, spell an A° (A#dim) chord (A# C# E).

These are the i and vii° chords in the key of B minor. If you want to play a scale over this, it's going to be B harmonic minor (or F# phrygian dominant, same thing). For sweeping, these are the arpeggios I would consider:

Bm - Bm (obviously), G, D, Dm, D+ (Daug), F#m, F#.

Playing Bm over a Bm chord is going to sound really inside, so to break it up a bit, I've given some suggestions. G and D are closely related to Bm, so they're pretty safe. Dm will give that b5 sound to your harmony, which may or may not work. D+ is going to make your harmony a mM7 (minor/major7; a minor chord with a major seventh). F#m will get a ninth in the chord. F# will make the chord sound like a mM7, again, but with a ninth.

A#° - A#°7, F#, F#7.

Pretty safe here. Playing A#°7 just fills out the chord. F# or F#7 will make it sound like a V7 chord (because that's what F#7 is in Bm, after all).


Since you have two very strong chords from the key in here, you could probably get away with anything in B minor, so long as you're tasteful.


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## All_¥our_Bass (Dec 3, 2009)

Looks like you have either B harmonic minor or B melodic there, depending on what you decide the last note to be (which as an effect on what the resultant chords will be).

B harmonic minor is
B C# D E F# G A#

Your "completed" chords using this scale would be...
B, D, F#
D, F#, A#
C#, E, G
A#, C#, E

B melodic minor is
B C# D E F# G# A#

Your "completed" chords using this scale would be...
B, D, F#
D, F#, A#
C#, E, G#
A#, C#, E


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## FEEDTHEPLAGUE (Dec 4, 2009)

Thank you for an awesome answer schecter. May i ask how you came up with those chords for the sweeps, or do you just know that those chords fit well with the others? Guess i'm asking if there's a way for me to figure out what chords fit and what doesn't


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Dec 4, 2009)

Here are the chords in the key of B minor: Bm C#ø7 D Em F#7 G A#°7

The corresponding numerals are i iiø7 III iv V7 VI vii°7

To establish the tonality of any key, you need a cadence on the tonic chord. The most common way to do this is to use a V-i or vii°-i progression. Your progression is just that: i-vii°-i&#8212;vii°-i, and so on, for however long your repeat the riff. The reason why I call it Bm and A#° instead of Bm D+ C#° (or C#m, using melodic minor) A#° is because it makes more tonal sense to call the progression i-vii°, as compared to the progression All Your Bass stated, i-III+-ii°-vii°, because the notes you're using are all within two chords, so there is no need to really go beyond that. However, I'm looking at this in terms of classical (and some jazz) harmony, and All Your Bass' progression might fit more closely to what you're doing. Without hearing the music, I couldn't tell which to suggest.

That's just concerning which chords you actually have. Once that is established, you look at different sonorities that are common of those two chords. I'm thinking about upper structure harmony. So, to break this down:



*i* - just a minor tonic triad. B D F#

*i7* - a minor seventh. The seventh chord that's usually used for tonic chords. Derived from the natural minor, but is used even if harmonic or melodic minor are also in use.
B D F# A

*i9* - minor triad with a minor seventh and major ninth. Standard minor tonic ninth chord, see above. B D F# A C#

*iM7* - a minor/major seventh chord. Not a standard sonority. Can be derived from harmonic or melodic minor. B D F# A#

*iM9* - minor triad with a major seventh and major ninth. Another weird one. B D F# A# C#

*i7(b5)* - tonic seventh with a flatted fifth. Not really a solid tonic chord. I only mention it because having that tritone in there might sound metal in the proper context. Note that it clashes with the F# in your riff. For that reason, I might steer clear of this one.
B D F A

*VIM7* - It contains all the notes of i, but with a root a third lower. Going from a dominant function to VI is called a deceptive cadence, and while you might not be thinking of it like that, know that isn't a stable chord. This may or may not work in this harmonic context. G B D F#

*i13* - the other sonority that can be implied by having that G in there, if you get most of the notes of the chord into the arpeggio. B D F# A C# E G



vii° has relatively few substitutions and extensions, in comparison, because it is a highly functional chord. Remember, the V7-i and vii°7-i are the cadences we're looking at. The only big difference between the two, in my opinion, is that vii°7 sounds more minor. However, V7(b9) contains both the notes of the V7 chord and the vii°7 chord, and has a very distinct sound.

*vii°7* - A# C# E G
*V7* - F# A# C# E
*V7(b9)* - F# A# C# E G

It's true that in jazz, people go up to the thirteenth with the V chord, and make all sorts of crazy alterations. But it's going to sound more straightforward to stick to V7, vii°7, and V7(b9). I would also caution implying anything past the ninth on the i chord, if even that. Sweeping the triad might even be enough. The only reason I bring it up is to add more variety to your solo, or whatever. I'm sure you'll use your ears to decide.



Here's a device you can use to figure out progressions and substitutions within a key:











There are more things you can put in between all of those chords through the use of chromaticism, but this is the basic way progressions are structured. I'm thinking I should do a thread on seventh chords and extended harmonies at some point, but I don't know quite how I'd do that.


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## FEEDTHEPLAGUE (Dec 4, 2009)

Thanks alot for the explanation. Though i only grasped half of it  But it explained alot also. 
So, i've recorded some nice sweeps now and i think i've settled for this:
Bm7, G, F#7, A#dim7

Don't remember if it really was G major i played there...
But it sounded really great, smooth progression, the A#dim7, at least to my ears,
really lead to the Bm7 in a sweet way. And the whole thing has a great minor feeling to
it.

Sweet, cheat sheets! Love 'em. But i might some explanation on how to use them.


Thanks alot for helping me out Schecter. Now i'm gonna play this for my bandmates
and blow them away!


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## dacookster (Dec 4, 2009)

These are some excellent responses! Schecter and Bass really know their theory.

I might add, as I use a variety of chords, direct and 'implied' that depending on the bass line you can really 'open up' what's going on per chord progression.


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## Mr. Big Noodles (Dec 4, 2009)

FEEDTHEPLAGUE said:


> Thanks alot for the explanation. Though i only grasped half of it  But it explained alot also.
> So, i've recorded some nice sweeps now and i think i've settled for this:
> Bm7, G, F#7, A#dim7
> 
> ...



No problem. You might also substitute the G with G7, G7(b5), Gø7, C, Cm, or C7. If you follow any of those with an F#7, they become pre-dominant functions, which is just a big word for chords that come before a V chord (although, C7 is technically a tritone substitution).

About the extended harmonies: I'm just sticking chords together. For example, Bm (B D F#) and D (D F# A), when put together, spell Bm7 (B D F# A). By the same virtue, BmM9 is an aggregation of Bm (B D F#) and F# (F# A# C#).

So far as the chart goes, what you do is figure what are the chords in your key, and plug them in place of the numerals on that chart. You can start anywhere, and i (or I) can go anywhere you want it to go. There are other chords that can break up that progression, and some chords have functions in other keys, but I'm not going to get into that right now.


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