# Meshuggah Writing Process



## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

Just came across this on Wikipedia so I don't know how reliable it is, but I still found it an interesting read, thought some people here might also find this interesting:



> Meshuggah's music is written by Thordendal, Hagström, Haake and to a lesser degree by Kidman. During songwriting, Hagström programs the drums, and records the guitar and bass via computer. He presents his idea to the other members as a finished work. Meshuggah typically adheres to Hagström's general idea and rarely changes the song afterwards. Hagström explains that each member has an idea of what the others are doing conceptually, and nobody thinks exclusively in terms of a particular instrument. Kidman does not play guitar in the band anymore, but he is involved in writing riffs.
> 
> Except for when Hagström needs a soloist, he and Thordendal rarely record together. Both play guitar and bass while composing. Haake says about his songwriting, "Sometimes I&#8217;ll sample guitar parts, cut them up, pitch-shift and tweak them until I&#8217;ve built the riffs I want, just for demoing purposes. But most of the time I&#8217;ll just present the drums, and explain my ideas for the rest of the song, sing some riffs."


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## Parka Dez (May 13, 2009)

I was always under the impression Thordendal wrote the majority of the material and Hagstrom had a few songs here and there.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

nah man, if you look in the album inlays it details who the songs are written by, and on most albums, more songs are credited to Hagstrom than Thordendal


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## loktide (May 13, 2009)

Parka Dez said:


> I was always under the impression Thordendal wrote the majority of the material and Hagstrom had a few songs here and there.



+1


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

I actually prefer most of the tracks written by Hagstrom, save a few such as Dancers of a Discordant System and Rational Gaze.

both guitarist's writing have immense groove though


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## Wolfster (May 13, 2009)

I prefer Thordendal's tunes. He wrote the best tunes on chaosphere imo. Such as NMCC, and MLWYB, if I remember correctly(I may be wrong).


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## Anton (May 13, 2009)

I always thought that the person behind messhuggah's crazy song writing is Fredrick, especially when he had the Fredrick Thordendals special defects project...which is very similar to the Meshuggah feel....
So it's kinda weird to find out that he is not the one who writes all the songs...


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

well I think it's about time that Hagstrom got some credit


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## Mattayus (May 13, 2009)

it's also weird that Hagstrom joined quite late in the grand scheme of things. then just takes over  I too was under the impression that Meshuggah was more Thordendal's "project" than anyone elses


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

Wikipedia also says this on Hagstroms page:



> Although fellow Meshuggah guitarist Fredrik Thordendal plays all of the leads and solos and writes more of Meshuggah's songs, Mårten entirely wrote an instrumental, Acrid Placidity on the album Destroy Erase Improve, showing his melodicism within the band.



although I don't see how that can be seeing as on every album since Chaosphere, Hagstrom has had more songs credited than Thordendal.

I genuinely believe that Hagstrom deserves more credit than he gets, the guy is a monster songwriter and guitarist


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## DDDorian (May 13, 2009)

Even the stuff Kidman writes these days (well, I speak in regards to those songs of his on _Rare Trax_) sounds like it could have been written by either of those guys. My guess is that Hagstrom is probably the most motivated to actually write shit and the others are content to slack off Lucky for them that the writing team is more-or-less interchangeable, I guess.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

aye, it's the same in my band. we have 4 songwriters, so wherever 2 of us are being lazy, the other 2 will pick it up


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## Esp Griffyn (May 13, 2009)

I've always given major props to Hagstrom, he wrote "Dancers to a Discordant system" (best Meshuggah track ever) and to top it off, he looks cool as fuck on stage.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

Esp Griffyn said:


> I've always given major props to Hagstrom, he wrote "Dancers to a Discordant system" (best Meshuggah track ever) and to top it off, he looks cool as fuck on stage.



Thordendal wrote that track, but yes he does look cool as fuck on stage and props for giving him props


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## John_Strychnine (May 13, 2009)

Both guitarists collaborated for the song "New Millenium Cyanide Christ".

Considering that is alot of peoples favourite song, including one of mine, i don't see why they don't try writing stuff that incorporates both Marten and Fredrik, the difference between their playing style is subtle, but u can definiately hear it, i think an entire album of both of them tearing each others ideas apart to make ultimate songs. 

Imagine the groove.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)




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## Triple7 (May 13, 2009)

I have read that article before, it's very cool to see that the 4 main members (Lundgren used for live shows only) all actually contribute to the album. Hagstrom is a monster on stage and he writes amazing stuff. I am pretty sure that Hagstrom wrote _I, _which is an amazing song with some killer riffage!

I was suprised to see that Kidmen still writes some riffs seeing as how he hasn't played guitar for them since the first album.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

I can't post YouTube vids coz I'm at work, but the alternative video to Rational Gaze where Kidman is moshing around his house cracks me up


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## Triple7 (May 13, 2009)

^ I have to check that out ^


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## Marv Attaxx (May 13, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I can't post YouTube vids coz I'm at work, but the alternative video to Rational Gaze where Kidman is moshing around his house cracks me up


There you go


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## synrgy (May 13, 2009)

Every time I hear that song now, I hear him screaming "I LIKE JUICE!! FINISH YOUR JUICE!!"


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## Nats (May 13, 2009)

synrgy said:


> Every time I hear that song now, I hear him screaming "I LIKE JUICE!! FINISH YOUR JUICE!!"



Filtered vitamin substance


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## lucasreis (May 13, 2009)

Nats said:


> Filtered vitamin substance




What does he say on the I Like Juice part? I can´t figure it out... lol

I laughed a lot when I saw a video of this on youtube!!


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## TomAwesome (May 13, 2009)

"Our light-induced image of truth"


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

Marv Attaxx said:


> There you go


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## Marv Attaxx (May 13, 2009)

Kinda off-topic, but meshuggah ftw!!!



"I want you to fuck my foot"


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## Scar Symmetry (May 13, 2009)

^ that's a classic, so SO funny


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## tbird11 (May 14, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I genuinely believe that Hagstrom deserves more credit than he gets, the guy is a monster songwriter and guitarist


 
I totally agree man, hagstrom is an absolute freak! 

On the writing process I think alot of what you've posted from wiki is fairly correct. I have seen on an interview somewhere in my travels marten stating that he and fred pretty much never write together. They come up with all their own concepts and record them roughly with programmed drums. Then Tomas takes those rough drafts and learns them adding his own flavours of course. Its very interesting and I think that the more that you listen to these guys the more you can identify who wrote what songs, (especially on the album obzen). Eg. Bleed is blantantly a fred groove while obzen in classic hagstrom.


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## Kyo (May 14, 2009)

Marten may contribute a lot of material, but it's generally Fredrik's tunes that I end up liking most on their albums. So most of my Meshuggah favorites were written by Thordendal (Future Breed Machine, New Millennium Cyanide Christ, Bleed...), Straws Pulled at Random being the most notable exception.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 14, 2009)

tbird11 said:


> I totally agree man, hagstrom is an absolute freak!
> 
> On the writing process I think alot of what you've posted from wiki is fairly correct. I have seen on an interview somewhere in my travels marten stating that he and fred pretty much never write together. They come up with all their own concepts and record them roughly with programmed drums. Then Tomas takes those rough drafts and learns them adding his own flavours of course. Its very interesting and I think that the more that you listen to these guys the more you can identify who wrote what songs, (especially on the album obzen). Eg. Bleed is blantantly a fred groove while obzen in classic hagstrom.



yeah man, Hagstrom's grooves make me want to jump up and down in a frenzy!


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## vampiregenocide (May 14, 2009)

Its always looked to me like the songwriting was 50/50 with these guys, though I have to say, most of my favourite tracks seem to be by Thordendal (Future Breed Machine, Bleed, Rational Gaze).


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## Konfyouzd (May 14, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I actually prefer most of the tracks written by Hagstrom, save a few such as Dancers of a Discordant System and Rational Gaze.
> 
> both guitarist's writing have immense groove though



Dancers To a Discordant System ftw!


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## Scar Symmetry (May 14, 2009)

DTADS FTW IMO!


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## synrgy (May 14, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> Dancers To a Discordant System ftw!



+1. 

That was the song that officially converted me from being a casual listener to 'these guys fucking rule'.


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## Konfyouzd (May 14, 2009)

i like that and In Death is Death. there's something about when they play the riffs without the drums and then haake comes in and makes it all make sense. it blows my fuckin' mind every time.

oh yeah... and Closed Eye Visuals... i LOOOOOVE that song.

hey those whisper vocals on Shed... is that Kidman or Thordendal? i remember there was either a thread on here before or maybe there was a video on youtube (i can't really remember) with people comparing Kidman's vocals to Thordendal's. i didn't even know Thordendal did any of the singing in Meshuggah.


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## vampiregenocide (May 14, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> hey those whisper vocals on Shed... is that Kidman or Thordendal? i remember there was either a thread on here before or maybe there was a video on youtube (i can't really remember) with people comparing Kidman's vocals to Thordendal's. i didn't even know Thordendal did any of the singing in Meshuggah.



They do have quite similar voices, Thordendal sings the 'here I am' bit on FBM, so wouldn't be suprised if he sung other parts too.


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## Triple7 (May 14, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> i like that and In Death is Death. there's something about when they play the riffs without the drums and then haake comes in and makes it all make sense. it blows my fuckin' mind every time.
> 
> oh yeah... and Closed Eye Visuals... i LOOOOOVE that song.
> 
> hey those whisper vocals on Shed... is that Kidman or Thordendal? i remember there was either a thread on here before or maybe there was a video on youtube (i can't really remember) with people comparing Kidman's vocals to Thordendal's. i didn't even know Thordendal did any of the singing in Meshuggah.




The whisper vocals are actually done by Haake


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## Esp Griffyn (May 14, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I can't post YouTube vids coz I'm at work, but the alternative video to Rational Gaze where Kidman is moshing around his house cracks me up



Oh gutted 

Who wrote "Stengah"? Cause thats another blazing track, the intro when the drums come in just blows my balls off (on the superior reNothing version obviously)


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## Scar Symmetry (May 14, 2009)

I would just like to say that the grooves at:

0:31 in Entrapment,
0:46 in Personae Non Gratae and at
2:10 in Dehumanization 

blow my fucking mind 

Catch 33 is so, so good!

Stengah was written by Hagstrom and Haake FYI


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (May 15, 2009)

Hagstrom writes more songs. But Fredrick writes all the best ones IMO.


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## Anthony (May 15, 2009)

Unknown Doodl3.2 said:


> Hagstrom writes more songs. But Fredrick writes all the best ones IMO.



That's how I feel to honestly.


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## polydeathsphere (May 15, 2009)

How can Fredrick write all their best songs when ALL of their songs are their best songs?


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## Scar Symmetry (May 15, 2009)

people are entitled to prefer either guitarist's writing of course, I just wanted to bring to people's attention how underrated Hagstrom is, and that he should get more cred


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## Konfyouzd (May 15, 2009)

Triple7 said:


> The whisper vocals are actually done by Haake



get the fuck outa here... so they all kinda take turns doing a little of everything. helluva band...


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## Dwellingers (May 15, 2009)

It is Haake who writes the lyrics right? and lay down the rythm these are supposed to be sung in right?


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## Konfyouzd (May 15, 2009)

^ thats what i've heard


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## Scar Symmetry (May 15, 2009)

Dwellingers said:


> It is Haake who writes the lyrics right? and lay down the rythm these are supposed to be sung in right?



on Nothing, Haake wrote all the songs lyrics except one which Hagstrom wrote, and on obZen the lyrics were down the line between Hagstrom and Thordendal, with Haake having input on one song


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## Konfyouzd (May 15, 2009)

so what the fuck does kidman do? just sing?


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## Scar Symmetry (May 15, 2009)

yeah and make funny videos 

he actually writes a few riffs and programs some of the drums too  (he was first and foremost a guitarist, hence why he has an Ibanez Universe in the vid)


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## Konfyouzd (May 15, 2009)

^ i saw his Rational Gaze video... 

and what does he actually say in that part that sounds like "i like juice!"


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## Scar Symmetry (May 15, 2009)

read the thread


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## Triple7 (May 15, 2009)

If I am not mistaken, Hagstrom wrote the lyrics to the song _I_.


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## Konfyouzd (May 15, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> read the thread



found it 

"i like juice! finish your juice! filtered viatmin substance!" perfect


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## Scar Symmetry (May 15, 2009)

Triple7 said:


> If I am not mistaken, Hagstrom wrote the lyrics to the song _I_.



nah man Haake wrote the lyrics for I.


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## Konfyouzd (May 15, 2009)

i bet haake wrote a lot of I


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## Scar Symmetry (May 15, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> i bet haake wrote a lot of I



yeah the music was Haake and Thordendal


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## Konfyouzd (May 15, 2009)

that shit is complex. it reminids a lot of sol niger within

and is it just me or does the beginning of I sound a lot like Slayer's Exile


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## Scar Symmetry (May 15, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> and is it just me or does the beginning of I sound a lot like Slayer's Exile



 yeah it does! I noticed that


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## Konfyouzd (May 15, 2009)

i wanna be in a band like meshuggah... not necessarily the sound but i like their approach to writing. everyone kind of gets to do their thing... there are no defined roles per se despite the instruments they use to perform. and where does their bass player fit into the writing process? since hagstrom and thordendal both play bass during the writing process. and with those 8 strings they might as well be playing basses anyway 



ftw iirc imo btw


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## Dwellingers (May 16, 2009)

Konfyouzd said:


> i wanna be in a band like meshuggah... not necessarily the sound but i like their approach to writing. everyone kind of gets to do their thing... there are no defined roles per se despite the instruments they use to perform. and where does their bass player fit into the writing process? since hagstrom and thordendal both play bass during the writing process. and with those 8 strings they might as well be playing basses anyway
> 
> 
> 
> ftw iirc imo btw




Event thou the bass is playning the same octave as the guitars, it makes another sound - the morer "growly"-distorted sound you can find in almost every ´shuggah tune...as for what he does? - read the thread


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## tbird11 (May 16, 2009)

Dwellingers said:


> Event thou the bass is playning the same octave as the guitars, it makes another sound - the morer "growly"-distorted sound you can find in almost every ´shuggah tune...as for what he does? - read the thread


 
yeah man alot of people don't realise how much of the 'shuggs trademark tone is due to the tight distorted bass. If you take the bass out of the mix the guitars sound thin on their own even though the bass is in the same octave.


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## sol niger 333 (May 17, 2009)

Wolfster said:


> I prefer Thordendal's tunes. He wrote the best tunes on chaosphere imo. Such as NMCC, and MLWYB, if I remember correctly(I may be wrong).




I think they are both really talented guys. I gotta agree with you though. Most of my favourite mesh songs are written by Haake and Thortendaal. MLWYB is one of those



Kyo said:


> Marten may contribute a lot of material, but it's generally Fredrik's tunes that I end up liking most on their albums. So most of my Meshuggah favorites were written by Thordendal (Future Breed Machine, New Millennium Cyanide Christ, Bleed...), Straws Pulled at Random being the most notable exception.



Couldn't agree more. I was gushing to Fredrik about how much I liked the beautiful end section and solo on straws pulled at random and he was like Marten wrote that dude. I was so convinced it was something Fredrik would have written. Just goes to show how much they have probably influenced each other over the last 20 years or more


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## Unknown Doodl3.2 (May 17, 2009)

Hvaing seen them live and upfront twice, I find Fredrick has a certain aura about him that Marten doesn't have. You watch them play and Fredrick almost looks like the biggest piece of the puzzle to me


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## Scar Symmetry (May 17, 2009)

^ so have I, and I'd say that was the other way round.


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## Phalanx (May 17, 2009)

I think it makes sense that Hagstrom writes a majority of the music for Meshuggah. I've seen the interview of Hagstrom and Thordendal and Hagstrom basically owns the entire interview because he has a view on absolutely everything whereas Thordendal just quietly sits there.


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## Scar Symmetry (May 17, 2009)

^ any chance of a link?


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## Gregk (May 17, 2009)

MetalKult MESHUGGAH: Extreme Metal Riff Lesson


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## Dwellingers (May 17, 2009)

Gregk said:


> MetalKult MESHUGGAH: Extreme Metal Riff Lesson



I really dont think fred is the talkative-kinda-guy...seems like mårten and tomas is the ones making interviews...


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## Scar Symmetry (May 18, 2009)

tbird11 said:


> alot of people don't realise how much of the 'shuggs trademark tone is due to the tight distorted bass. If you take the bass out of the mix the guitars sound thin on their own even though the bass is in the same octave.



a perfect example of this is 0:50 into Bleed.

there's just the panned guitars without the bass and the guitars on their own sound really thin, then when the bass kicks in you get the full trademark Meshuggah sound 

and is it just me, or does Frederik laugh like a little girl about 1/4 of the way into that vid?


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## freepower (May 18, 2009)

This thread is awesome. More credit to everyone! 

Haake and his lyric concepts pwn. Anyone know where I can get a decent discussion going on the concept behind C33?


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## Scar Symmetry (May 19, 2009)

^ not sure what you're asking dude 

are you suggesting we discuss the concept behind Catch 33?


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## hairychris (May 19, 2009)

Fredrik is notoriously quiet in interviews... That doesn't mean anything except 'Fredrik is notoriously quiet in interviews'.


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## King Fisher (May 19, 2009)

Scar Symmetry said:


> I can't post YouTube vids coz I'm at work, but the alternative video to Rational Gaze where Kidman is moshing around his house cracks me up


Word on that one! ^
I think Hagstrom is a monster and definitely needs more credit.


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## Konfyouzd (May 19, 2009)

Phalanx said:


> I think it makes sense that Hagstrom writes a majority of the music for Meshuggah. I've seen the interview of Hagstrom and Thordendal and Hagstrom basically owns the entire interview because he has a view on absolutely everything whereas Thordendal just quietly sits there.



i get what you're saying but whenever i play a song concept that i'm working on for someone or show someone a drawing of mine they generally have so much more to say about it than i do. they end up interpreting my own stuff to me and usually i wasn't thinking about anything at all when i made it. so just because thordendal is quiet doesn't mean a whole lot. and sometimes it's difficult to put into words what's going on in your head which is why you do it in musical (and sometimes visual) art form.


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## Æxitosus (May 19, 2009)

that actually sounds like what my band does

only, instead of recording parts, I tab everything out on guitar pro and send it to everyone. 

Oh, and we practice together.


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## Konfyouzd (May 19, 2009)

^ last band i was in was pretty much me and another guitarist and he pretty much wrote all the songs because he wanted it to be that way and i got a solo here and there. i learned a lot but i think i'd rather be in a band with a meshuggah-like writing process the next time. they seem to value each other's opinions a little more.


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## Æxitosus (May 19, 2009)

^^
yea in my band, we all really put our input into each song
and there isn't one specific songwriter, even though I write the good majority of the music.


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## Konfyouzd (May 19, 2009)

^^ well right now i'm a "solo artist" so all the input is my own. i hate it.


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## highlordmugfug (May 27, 2009)

Phalanx said:


> I think it makes sense that Hagstrom writes a majority of the music for Meshuggah. I've seen the interview of Hagstrom and Thordendal and Hagstrom basically owns the entire interview because he has a view on absolutely everything whereas Thordendal just quietly sits there.


I seem to remember hearing somewhere that this was just because Hagstrom's English is a little better than Thordendal's. 
Can't remember where and I don't know if it's true or not, but I read/heard it.


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## Sang-Drax (May 27, 2009)

I wished I liked Meshuggah more. I likee the groove and the polyrhythms, but the lack of melody lines really bothers me 

That's why I like Periphery a lot more


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## highlordmugfug (May 27, 2009)

Sang-Drax said:


> I wished I liked Meshuggah more. I likee the groove and the polyrhythms, but the lack of melody lines really bothers me
> 
> That's why I like Periphery a lot more


Check out 'Ritual'. That's a lot more melodic than their newer material. And Jens actually sings on it.


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## Konfyouzd (May 27, 2009)

yes... and choirs of devastation.


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## highlordmugfug (May 27, 2009)

Acrid placidity.


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## Sang-Drax (May 28, 2009)

It seems that their older stuff is more melodic, huh?

Will check those out. Thanks


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