# Amanda Todd's suicide



## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 16, 2012)

So a few days ago (Saturday, I believe) I was given the link to the video she made before killing herself and it instantly got me thinking:

I believe some things can't be avoided. Some accidents, for example. Sometimes you're really dependant on something I guess you could call "fate". Sometimes, however, you may also be able to change your fate, or someone else's for that matter. 

The girl was 10 years old when a foto of her bare breasts was done by some guy she barely knew. She was chatting with him by means of an IM-service (MSN, I believe it was). Now, what kind of parent lets a child use such services at 10 years old? I am 23 now, and I only started chatting when I was around 17. I made my first Facebook account when I was around 19 and well, you get the idea. Sure, back in the day most of us didn't have a high-speed DSL connection and social networking wasn't as ubiquitous as it is nowadays, but still...people knew that you had to be mature to a certain degree in order to keep yourself safe out there, on the internet.

But nowadays it's different. Pretty often I am sitting on the bus and I see children with their iPhones (or smartphones in general), and talking about stuff me and my generation only experienced years after we hit puberty. The children I talk about are barely 12! 

What am I trying to say? That girl's suicide could have been avoided if 1) she hadn't had access to a computer with internet and/or 2) she had used the internet with an adult's supervision. The internet is in my opinion more dangerous than many people think. I actually believe most of it is full of content that children should stay away from.


What do you think?

tl;dr: irresponsabile parenting is irresponsabile.


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## Fred the Shred (Oct 16, 2012)

She was, unless I'm mistaken, 12 years old when the boob shot was taken. Thing is that that is merely the beginning of the problems here. She wasn't just harrassed online. She was emotionally and physically abused constantly, and that was what ultimately broke her completely.

We can't make a superficial analysis of this kind of stuff - the girl was abused in a number of ways, and all attempts to dettach herself from both the online harrassment and the social exclusion and bullying that supposedly emerged from it were met with very brief, if any, periods of calm only to go back to a similar pattern. The problem isn't her having had a boob shot taken when she was 12, it's the way mobs work and the destructive impact it has.


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## JPhoenix19 (Oct 16, 2012)

It is a fallacy to assume you know anything about the situation beyond what you read in the news or saw in the videos. We can't point blame, and like it or not she was a victim and didn't 'deserve' to be treated like she was. We also can't blame her parents with sufficient evidence to support such a claim.


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## Malkav (Oct 16, 2012)

This whole story is sad, partially because a life was lost, and partially because of how mind numbingly dumb the circumstances under which that life was lost fall.


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## Fat-Elf (Oct 16, 2012)

If she really was stupid enough to give a pic of her boobs to a stranger on the internet then I don't say she really deserved all the shit she got but she should have known where it leads.  But yeah, she was very young at the time and I remember acting also kinda unresponsibly around the internet during that age so therefore I think it's up to parents to really focus on what their kids are doing on the internet.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 16, 2012)

FredTheShred's got a point, though. I believe it was indeed the harrassing she experienced by her peers what depressed her and ultimately led her to take that decision. It's kind of disturbing to realize how mean and brutal children can be.


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## Don Vito (Oct 16, 2012)

Agreed sir, agreed. It's sad that many people take internet safety as a novelty or a joke.

I agree with Fred's statement as well.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 16, 2012)

Malkav said:


> This whole story is sad, partially because a life was lost, and partially because of how mind numbingly dumb the circumstances under which that life was lost fall.



This.


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## Anonymous (Oct 16, 2012)

The fact that people can be insensitive enough to push an individual in to taking thier own life is disgusting. I didn't see the big deal in what she did, she messed up, and she admitted it. I mean, I hear about girls showing their selfs on skype or sending pictures though texts where Im at almost every day, and they all had the same reason. "I trusted them" or "I thought they really 'liked' me". It's happned to people I know and love so I know what they go through, it's physcologicaly disturbing to say the least. I felt so bad for that poor girl after seeing that, the people responsible now have to live with what they've done and they deserve it.


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## darren (Oct 16, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> If she really was stupid enough to give a pic of her boobs to a stranger on the internet then I don't say she really deserved all the shit she got but she should have known where it leads.  But yeah, she was very young at the time and I remember acting also kinda unresponsibly around the internet during that age so therefore I think it's up to parents to really focus on what their kids are doing on the internet.



Blaming the victim?  Did you know the full consequences of your actions when you were 12?


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## Fred the Shred (Oct 16, 2012)

Also, she didn't "send a pic" of her boobs, she flashed the dude per his request without knowing he was saving the image, which is quite different to begin with. Even so, what that sort of blame the victim interpretation means is that any mistake, as long as the populace knows it, is a legitimate reason for years and years of abuse of all kinds, or at least some sort of twisted attenuation.

So, all mistakes, regardless of the innocence behind them, are a good justification for abuse. I have to remember this when I feel like beating the shit out of someone - "you're getting beat because the icecream dude gave you the wrong change 6 years ago and you kept it" sounds reasonable...


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## Xaios (Oct 16, 2012)

darren said:


> Blaming the victim?  Did you know the full consequences of your actions when you were 12?



While Amanda alone can't be blamed for not acting appropriately in this situation, her parents should probably be shouldering at least some of the blame. After all, "don't show your tits to random guys on the internet" is right up there with "don't follow the man offering you candy into his windowless van" on the scale of things that we should be teaching our children. The question is, how well was this kind of thinking enforced throughout her childhood.

(EDIT: I should qualify this statement by clarifying that I'm not trying to say that her parents were bad in general, but if they didn't reinforce this particular lesson strenuously, that would certainly constitute a major misstep.)

This also needs to be put out there: a sexual predator scumbag may have set a trap for a young girl to fall into, but this particular young girl fell in willing. No amount of lionizing her posthumously will change that. Amanda deserves justice, and the predator who did this to her deserves to feel the full force of the law being brought down upon him. However, if anyone were to use Amanda as an abject example of how not to act, I don't think anyone would argue the validity of that lesson.


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## Overtone (Oct 16, 2012)

I generally dislike the notion of describing emotional/behavioral issues as "illness", but let's just say that her disposition made her somebody with a good probability of committing suicide unless she received a lot of support from those close to her, protection from certain elements, and the right treatment/advice. You could almost compare it to somebody born with a certain disability that lowers their chances of survival... if the problem goes unaddressed, they probably won't make it. Removing her access to the computer would not remove her disposition. Now if everything possible was being done to give her support, love, treatment, etc. and she still offed herself there's the question of whether or not she would have offed herself over something else if not the internet fiasco.


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## Edika (Oct 16, 2012)

What I find strange however is the fact that she kept using social media and the internet after the whole cyber bullying and blackmail she undertook. Does social media have such appeal to the adolescents of today? So much that someone would subject themselves to continuous psychological abuse?

Just to be clear I agree with you guys that she was a victim and it is strange how they couldn't track this guys IP address and arrest him. This guy is a sexual predator and should be put behind bars.


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## Konfyouzd (Oct 16, 2012)

Edika said:


> ...it is strange how they couldn't track this guys IP address and arrest him.



It's strange to me that a lot of people never get tracked down... 

Priorities...


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## Dickicker (Oct 16, 2012)

Its a god damn chris hanson case if I've ever seen one.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 16, 2012)

Its too bad but im really shocked by our police force's response. They assigned two dozen officers to her case but we have had serious issues with native american woman being raped and murdered for years but they assigned less to those cases even though it was a serial killer.

Clearly the police around here only give a shit if you are white.


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## Xaios (Oct 16, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Clearly the police around here only give a shit if you are white.



Can you blame them? In the 2-3 days since this happened, I guarantee that more people already know the name Amanda Todd than will ever know the name Robert Pickton. It's not just the police who care more simply because she's white, it's a measured response to the fact that she's currently a media darling. Anything less would have been political suicide.

(I'm not saying I agree, for the record. I'm simply pointing out the obvious, more or less.)


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## Fat-Elf (Oct 16, 2012)

darren said:


> Blaming the victim?  Did you know the full consequences of your actions when you were 12?



Probably not but didn't she have any common sense. I didn't flash my dick or anything on internet as kid. women..


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## skeels (Oct 16, 2012)

They teach us to build walls
But we don't learn to defend


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 16, 2012)

Xaios said:


> Can you blame them? In the 2-3 days since this happened, I guarantee that more people already know the name Amanda Todd than will ever know the name Robert Pickton. It's not just the police who care more simply because she's white, it's a measured response to the fact that she's currently a media darling. Anything less would have been political suicide.
> 
> (I'm not saying I agree, for the record. I'm simply pointing out the obvious, more or less.)



Yeah you are completely right. Had it been a native girl..people would have been like, "oh shes native dey all b stupid no surprises here!". Oh well, like I said..its too bad but you wonder about her parents too...


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## Xaios (Oct 16, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> I didn't flash my dick or anything on internet as kid. women..



While I can certainly believe that, I also sincerely doubt anyone wanted to see your dick when you were 12. 

While I don't have any data to support this assumption, my gut tells me that the grand majority of pedophiles are men, and the grand majority of them are interested in girls.


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## Gothic Headhunter (Oct 16, 2012)

While I agree with your assumption, it's not really relevant. She allowed a picture of her tits to be seen by someone that she didn't know. Even though he requested it, it was ultimately her decision. Kids of both genders should know by the age of 12 not to post/send pictures of themselves to people that they don't know.


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## YngwieJ (Oct 16, 2012)

Fred the Shred said:


> The problem isn't her having had a boob shot taken when she was 12, it's the way mobs work and the destructive impact it has.


This was my initial thought after reading about her story. People seem to throw all rational thought out the window when they're in a crowd. It disgusts me that humans really get some kind of pleasure out of bullying others--like Schadenfreude. 

People keep asking what we need to do to reduce bullying among young teens, and it seems to me that this type of behavior comes from the uneducated and those with low self-esteem. I think we could greatly reduce the impact of bullying if psychology (particularly crowd psychology) were taught in public schools.


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## Don Vito (Oct 16, 2012)

Gothic Headhunter said:


> While I agree with your assumption, it's not really relevant. She allowed a picture of her tits to be seen by someone that she didn't know. Even though he requested it, it was ultimately her decision. *Kids of both genders should know by the age of 12 not to post/send pictures of themselves to people that they don't know.*


Not necessarily. Again, were reverting back to the parenting issue.


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## Pooluke41 (Oct 16, 2012)

Obviously the fact she killed herself over this was terrible. But I think most of the people commenting things like "lol, drink bleach" or "she's a slut" comes from all these pages trying to gain facebook likes out of her death. I think that is an issue in itself that we should also talk about and seeing these pages have statuses like "like if you are against bullying" or "share this if you are against bullying" really sicken me. They are on par with the likewhore pages that put the "1 like = 1 this or that" statuses every hour. But rather than than calmly say their opinion on these pages, people start to make jokes about her and call her a slut.

Now half of my facebook is filled with pictures of people trying to justify calling her a slut and the other half is people trying to get likes for their page by either trying to be offensive or putting up likewhore statuses.

Really I think this trivialisation of suicide is a huge issue. People really only seem to care after it happens, rather than actually sort the root issues out.

(I have realised that no one has gotten to the internet's reaction to her yet. But fuck you all. I'm an SSO gangsta )


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 16, 2012)

This whole incident is very sad. This girl was bullied as a result of a mistake she made as children do, and was not given enough support to get through it.

That being said, there are a few alarming points from all this.

1. What sort of parent allows a young girl to have access to a webcam? Come on people, you give a teenager access to a webcam and you can be pretty sure it will be used sexually at some point. When they're at the age of consent then fair enough, but before then you're just being an irresponsible parent imo.

2. Teenagers commit suicide every day, and yet the only ones that get notices are pretty white girls or gay kids. Perhaps we need to start looking at suicide with children across the board and not picking and choosing who we care about. I don't want to make it sound like I am saying Amanda Todd isn't important, but she's not the only one that has done this, and certainly not the only one that has been bullied into it. 

3. The fact that social networking sites like Facebook don't take it upon themselves to clean up their sites better is disgusting. I've seen many Facebook groups made to attack one person, and it shouldn't be allowed. If you allow cyber bullying to happen on your site, you're just as responsible. Police it better.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 16, 2012)

I had a webcam since I was like 7...I think it was shitty parenting more than anything. The schools she went to were not very good either, most were the schools all the problematic kids go to in the area..


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 16, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> I had a webcam since I was like 7...I think it was shitty parenting more than anything.



And have you ever done anything 'indecent' with it?


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 16, 2012)

Dude fuck you! Randy loved those nudes!!!


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 16, 2012)

In all seriousness though, growing up during the whole MSN chat trend when everyone was on there, the number of girls who would strip with no provocation was mad in hindsight. Shit, I got flashed by random girls I didn't even know. I don't want that to sound like bragging because it isn't, but I think it highlights just how commonly it happens. Hell, I've done it.  Maybe not to people I don't know though.


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## SpaceDock (Oct 16, 2012)

The guy who took the pic from the flash should be in jail..

The guy who put the pic as his profile pic should be in jail...

The parents should be seriously evaluating their lives and lack of involvement..

Amanda should have moved on, fuck Facebook and the Internet ruling your life. I don't care if there was a pic of me sucking donkey balls posted on every Facebook page, my life would carry on.

It is really sad that so many youths get caught up in their adolescent life and don't realize that all of these things will go away and you can always build a better life for yourself if you make that choice. She made some bad choices, got trolled real bad, made more bad choices, got beat up, but it is not worth dying over.


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## Mexi (Oct 16, 2012)

tragedies like this really speak to what I was saying in the other thread about schools about how teens seem increasingly unable to deal with teenage problems that have only been made more vicious by the internet. on the other hand, these kids often exercise terrible judgment and send nudes of themselves to significant others and then are incapable with dealing with the consequences of it. there should be a lot more emphasis placed in schools about responsible internet/phone use. they should also emphasize to teens to always assume that if something is posted *through* the internet it can wind up *on* it.

what is particularly troubling is that a lot of these kids are stuck with legitimate feelings of self-harm and depression (aside from the typical teen versions of it) that generally wouldn't affect people into adulthood but because these kids are growing up faster, they're dealing with very adult issues. what also gets me is how much attention is being given to the bullying issue (not that it isn't important) but not to mental health in general? kids' abilities to cope with bullying and feelings of depression are entirely dependent on sound mental health, so I think that really needs to come out more in the discussion about bully-related suicides.


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## trianglebutt (Oct 16, 2012)

Sometimes I feel like kids can be more cruel than any adult could ever be.


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## JosephAOI (Oct 17, 2012)

I think there's way more to this than any of us know. I don't believe for a single second though that Amanda Todd was any sort of an angel. That's the only stance I have on this personally.

EDIT: also, I saw this earlier. The validity of it though is very much subject to question.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 17, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> 2. _*Teenagers commit suicide every day, and yet the only ones that get notices are pretty white girls or gay kids. *_



Haven't you heard? Only white people are worthy humans.


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## Edika (Oct 17, 2012)

And just to think that the internet was created as a way for scientist to share and communicate their results and research to their colleagues and the general public!


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## Fred the Shred (Oct 17, 2012)

I also don't believe she was a pure, angelic creature shunned and attacked by demon-possessed teenagers that thrive on chaos and destruction. Thing is that, regardless of that (as we aren't exactly black or white beings), she was bullied. There isn't "just a little" when you change schools that often, sorry - while it may even be true that in the current school that was an almost isolated incident, you don't see people changing schools compulsively for being "a little bullied". 

Stuff overblown in her video? Well, how unheard of coming from a teen! Thing is that even the hyperbolic nature of some statements is a signal of something, and the whole thing was a cry for attention from people anyway.

Teenage suicide occurs frequently? Yes. Is a non-negligible number of such cases a result of the psychological stress caused by the period of life itself coupled with abuse / isolation / both? Yes. The problem isn't Amanda Todd - it's how she represents a problem that is experiencing an increase in frequency. Surely, not all teenagers "have it coming" or flash their tits when they're 12. Again, this case is far more than a kid flashing tits online or banging random badass chick's boyfriend.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Let me just clear a couple of things up:

1. It was not one single flash to one person. She frequently flashed _and masturbated_ on webcam for many different strangers. It was definitely not one single moment of teenage weakness.

2. Drinking bleach is a cry for attention if there ever was one.

3. She fucked someone else's boyfriend, albeit supposedly unknowingly.

Now, believe me, I am truly sorry to the family of this girl. I wouldn't wish their pain on many people in this world, and certainly not them. However, obviously they didn't exactly do a great job of raising this girl. She was not an angel like some people would have you believe, and she definitely changed certain parts of her story for the video. Also, if you're on the verge of suicide, you seek help. You don't make a Youtube video, sorry.

I guess the real problem here is this:
What kind of shitty message is this sending to people my age? "If you kill yourself everyone will love you and you'll get that 15 minutes of fame you so desperately want"?

/rant


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> Let me just clear a couple of things up:
> 
> 1. It was not one single flash to one person. She frequently flashed _and masturbated_ on webcam for many different strangers. It was definitely not one single moment of teenage weakness.
> 
> ...



Interesting. Sources?


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> Interesting. Sources?



Some dude on Facebook posted a bunch of photos of her webcam incidents... I could probably find it if you wanted but I already feel like I'm under government surveillance


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 17, 2012)

So she wasn't a perfect teenager, is there such a thing? She commit suicide and people don't do that for no fucking reason. So she made mistakes, kids do. But she changed schools, moved and tried to commit suicide twice. People don't do that unless they're really pushed, so instead of holding this girl to a higher standard when she's killed herself is to be honest. a little disgusting. 

As for her seeking putting the video on Youtube and not getting help, by all accounts she did try to get help, but she couldn't escape her past despite moving. She must have felt pretty hopeless, and as there have been numerous cases in the press in recent years of kids putting videos on Youtube to express serious issues, she probably thought it was the best way to get support.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

To me it just seems like Kony syndrome, for a couple of weeks moral douches will pretend to give a damn about an issue, yet do piss all to solve it. Having been a victim of bullying and suicide attempts in the past, I take offense to all these people sharing her photos etc. just to get attention and look like they care when in reality they are no better than the kids who picked on her.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> To me it just seems like Kony syndrome, for a couple of weeks moral douches will pretend to give a damn about an issue, yet do piss all to solve it. Having been a victim of bullying and suicide attempts in the past, I take offense to all these people sharing her photos etc. just to get attention and look like they care when in reality they are no better than the kids who picked on her.



Straight up. Clicktivism is a very annoying trend.


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## trianglebutt (Oct 17, 2012)

Where the fuck were her parents while all of this was happening? That's what I'm wondering honestly. The sort of stuff that she alleged was going on isn't something you can cover up easily, and if they were moving around to try and fix it they must have known some of the details.....


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Sorry, I just had to.
Wall Photos | Facebook


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## Fat-Elf (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> Sorry, I just had to.
> Wall Photos | Facebook



You just made my computer crash. Totally worth it. 

Oh, and what pathetic white knight negged my previous posts? I could have been way more straight forward with my posts but apparently not being isn't respected.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 17, 2012)

It's OK that Tristan Baker chose to be an idiot for a living. But why people would consider this guy to be some sort of model to follow, opinion-wise is beyond me. It's actually kind of sad.


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## skeels (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> Some dude on Facebook posted a bunch of photos of her webcam incidents... I could probably find it if you wanted but I already feel like I'm under government surveillance



Posting pictures -indecent pictures of someone under the age of consent?

Someone who just took their own life?


Look at this:






What in the flying fuck.

Our planet is inhabited some pretty stupid people.

This is what we do?
This is how we make each other feel?


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## Fat-Elf (Oct 17, 2012)

FFS! Are you people too ashamed to change your opinion now when you realise that everything she have said is not true or what? This skank just wanted attention and apparently got it more than enough.


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## Jakke (Oct 17, 2012)

I have been the occasional asshole as well, but I consider my human value to trump such things. What we have here is a girl who was driven to suicide, and people *dare* to say that she deserved it? I have actually come across people claiming she _deserved_ to die, this is not humanist, this is not respecting her human value. While I of course acknowledge that these poster probably are puritanical tweens in their parents' basement (with reactions like: LOL slut kill yourself).

Yes, we are horribly selective in what we care about, and that could maybe be considered a problem we have in our culture. But does that matter *one iota* when it comes down to a death like this? A *human being* is dead, and what apparently is more important is whining about how someone else did not get the same attention when they died.... Really?


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> It's OK that Tristan Baker chose to be an idiot for a living. But why people would consider this guy to be some sort of model to follow, opinion-wise is beyond me. It's actually kind of sad.



*Barker
Dude, pretty much everything he says is true.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 17, 2012)

Wow some of you are dicks.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)




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## Xaios (Oct 17, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> FFS! Are you people too ashamed to change your opinion now when you realise that everything she have said is not true or what? This skank just wanted attention and apparently got it more than enough.



While it's entirely understandable to be irritated about the situation after discovering that she was, ahem, less than genuine, people who are simply attention whores don't _kill themselves_ because people aren't paying enough attention. Kind of hard to enjoy the fruits of your labor when you're dead.

"I'll show them, they'll all miss me when I'm gone! It'll be great!"

Does that sound like someone in their right mind to you?

While it's apparent that she seems to have brought a lot of what happened to her down on herself, the fact is she felt her situation was bad enough that she took her own life. She's not someone I would have ever wanted to associate myself with in life, that much is obvious. However, she clearly had demons that caused her to act self-possessed the way she did, be it due to bad parenting or some other source of strife. Maybe she was just broken. Now we'll never know. As far as I'm concerned though, her issue is no longer about bullying. Clearly she had bigger internal issues than that.


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## Pooluke41 (Oct 17, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> FFS! Are you people too ashamed to change your opinion now when you realise that everything she have said is not true or what? This skank just wanted attention and apparently got it more than enough.



I doubt that this "skank" would have hung herself if she truly just wanted attention.

If she did just want attention, she'd probably have tried to OD on pills or start slitting her wrists. But calling her a skank is really immature, there's a visible line between an attention whore and someone who truly needs help.

Blaming her for committing suicide is just stupid, perhaps in the beginning she just wanted a bit of attention, as most teenagers do, but we know that this went a bit further than that. She may have lied about part of the story or she may have done this on internet chatrooms, but this is irrelevent to the point. 

A young girl killed herself because of bullying and her own obvious issues.

Trivialising her death does nothing to help affect this.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Pooluke41 said:


> I doubt that this "skank" would have hung herself if she truly just wanted attention.
> 
> If she did just want attention, she'd probably have tried to OD on pills or start slitting her wrists.



Or drank bleach.


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## Fat-Elf (Oct 17, 2012)

Pooluke41 said:


> If she did just want attention, she'd probably have tried to OD on pills or start slitting her wrists. But calling her a skank is really immature, there's a visible line between an attention whore and someone who truly needs help.



I apologise, calling her names doesn't help this situation but she actually slit her wrists and OD'd some anti-depressants according to Wikipedia. I guess I'll just wash my hands out of this. Though, it's just hard not to when society takes these cases so seriously and it makes me sick to watch people believing whatever media tells them and not question anything.


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## Xaios (Oct 17, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> I apologise, calling her names doesn't help this situation but she actually slit her wrists and OD'd some anti-depressants according to Wikipedia. I guess I'll just wash my hands out of this. Though, it's just hard not to when society takes these cases so seriously and it makes me sick to watch people believing whatever media tells them and not question anything.



People tend to be a bit more sympathetic when it's the now-deceased girl herself telling the story in her own words. She did make the original Youtube video after all, hard to get more first-hand info than that.

People also tend to excuse the cavalier behavior the recently deceased as well, especially when she admitted to at least _some_ of her wrongdoing (even though it turned out that she wasn't telling the whole story). That's just human nature, and has nothing to do with the media.


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 17, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> FFS! Are you people too ashamed to change your opinion now when you realise that everything she have said is not true or what? This skank just wanted attention and apparently got it more than enough.



Really? Have some bloody class. The girl made mistakes and probably wasn't an angel, no one here is denying that, but she killed herself. You don't get the benefit of attention when you're dead. 

Perhaps this kind of treatment is what lead her to do it in the first place. Perhaps a bit of understanding and we might have a lot less kids committing suicide.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> Really? Have some bloody class. The girl made mistakes and probably wasn't an angel, no one here is denying that, but she killed herself. You don't get the benefit of attention when you're dead.
> 
> Perhaps this kind of treatment is what lead her to do it in the first place. Perhaps a bit of understanding and we might have a lot less kids committing suicide.



OR perhaps we should stop praising people like her and making teenagers understand suicide won't get you anywhere. This whole mess is basically glorifying suicide to any teenager who wants fame and attention.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 17, 2012)

Its not glorifying suicide. Now back to /b/ /ug/hc you go.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Its not glorifying suicide. Now back to /b/ /ug/hc you go.



I don't even know what /b/ /ug/hc means so...


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## Pooluke41 (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> OR perhaps we should stop praising people like her and making teenagers understand suicide won't get you anywhere. This whole mess is basically glorifying suicide to any teenager who wants fame and attention.



You seem to be misapprehending the situation completely; people aren't glorifying suicide, they are either using the grief of her family and the event of her death to get facebook likes for their terrible page or trying to tell offensive and edgy jokes so they get likes from this whole facebook trend of thinking that you've got "so many" emotional problems and have self diagnosed bi-polarism just because you like a few jokes that are tasteless.

This is not glorifying suicide, this is people joining onto a bandwagon.

It's just like the "swagfags" or the internet atheists that haven't even looked into the reasons why they want to be an atheist, they just copy what someone on a facebook page or a youtube channel says, they go around calling all religious people idiots and bring down the reputation of real atheists.

It'll pass.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Pooluke41 said:


> you've got "so many" emotional problems and have self diagnosed bi-polarism just because you like a few jokes that are tasteless.



me in a nutshell.


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## Pooluke41 (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> me in a nutshell.



You're taking that out of context.

I'm talking about a vast number of people on the internet.

This what I actually said.



> trying to tell offensive and edgy jokes so they get likes from this whole facebook trend of thinking that you've got "so many" emotional problems and have self diagnosed bi-polarism just because you like a few jokes that are tasteless.



EDIT: Great, I wasted my 1500th post on this.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

I know I just found that rather amusing


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

It's really hard to try and put a real argument forward about this when the tr0llz0r in me just wants to scream "lol ragequit"


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> OR perhaps we should stop praising people like her and making teenagers understand suicide won't get you anywhere. This whole mess is basically glorifying suicide to any teenager who wants fame and attention.



I don't know what logic got you to that conclusion,. but I question it.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> I don't know what logic got you to that conclusion,. but I question it.



OK, let's break down the formula for internet fame:

1. Flash tits

2. Drink bleach

3. Commit suicide

These are not good things. However, when a girl does these things she suddenly becomes famous worldwide. Politicians are talking about her, people are praising her in countries she's never been to. That's a bad message to send to kids.


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 17, 2012)

It's a bad message to send to kids that if they commit suicide it will just be treated as attention seeking.


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## Xaios (Oct 17, 2012)

I have to say CK, your lack of sensitivity regarding this issue is absolutely stunning. I don't particularly sympathize with Amanda's actions, but your reaction that "oh, she only killed herself to get attention, like the bitch of a drama queen that she is" is incredibly shortsighted.

I've lost 3 friends in my life to suicide, one just a few months ago. I guarantee you, they weren't just doing it for the attention.


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 17, 2012)

It says a lot when someone posts a clip from Team America in a thread about teen suicide.


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## Jakke (Oct 17, 2012)

TAA (and I do know that not everyone here appreciates his provocative style) also did a good video on perspective:


Acknowledging the gravity of the situation, but also a call for perspective. I'm actually saddened by the lack of respect for humanity from both those saying that Amanda Todd "deserved it" and from those who attach their ego to her story and write facebook posts about how heaven has another angel (etc.). This is while people are dying every day in the world around us, which they do not give a single fuck about.


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 17, 2012)

I was with him up to 5 minutes in. 

A. The picture he posted of himself with the sign was disrespectful. Simple as that. 

B. You can care about people being bullied and people dying of starvation. You don't have to pick and choose who to care about. Plenty of people care about death as a whole, but of course there are those who will only jump on the Amanda Todd case because they relate to her better and feel like they should say something. I don't know the names of children in Africa who are dying of starvation, but then I also don't know the names of every kid that had commit suicide as a result of bullying.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Xaios said:


> I have to say CK, your lack of sensitivity regarding this issue is absolutely stunning. I don't particularly sympathize with Amanda's actions, but your reaction that "oh, she only killed herself to get attention, like the bitch of a drama queen that she is" is incredibly shortsighted.
> 
> *I've lost 3 friends in my life to suicide, one just a few months ago. I guarantee you, they weren't just doing it for the attention.*



I know, that's what I'm saying. Thousands of people commit suicide every day, and the only one that gets any attention is one who made a youtube video about it. I do not think all people who commit suicide are looking for attention, as I mentioned earlier in this thread I have attempted suicide before, and definitely not for attention. BUT, this is the worst possible example of a person killing themselves.

And I started off extremely sympathetic, just with a different perspective on things. Then suddenly "OMG das offensav". I don't know how much of this thread you've read, but my mood has declined since my first post.

Let me be clear:

My sincerest apologies to anyone I've offended. My condolences to everyone affected by this girl's death. I don't think that she is better off dead, nor would I wish her fate on anyone except the worst kind of scum. HOWEVER, I would like to say this. 
The girl in question changed parts of her story for her video.
She clearly wasn't brought up in a proper environment.
This whole situation is being used as another bandwagon for clicktivists to pounce on and attract moralfags and likewhores.
I think people are glorifying this girl and sending a bad message to people going through similar things.

I did not mean to offend anyone affected by suicide, nor did I mean to start a flamewar. I simply wanted to share a perspective different from the popular consensus.


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## Xaios (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> The girl in question changed parts of her story for her video.



My problem is that, as soon as this was discovered, your reaction changed to that of someone who felt slighted because of it, going from sympathy tempered with a reasonable level of skepticism to full on "she lied, fuck her," as proven by this:



Fat-Elf said:


> FFS! Are you people too ashamed to change your opinion now when you realise that everything she have said is not true or what? This skank just wanted attention and apparently got it more than enough.



The proper response would have been "why did she lie?" The most obvious reason is that she was ashamed of her true actions, which would be understandable, but another reason is simply that she was looking for sympathy (as opposed to mere attention). She clearly didn't get it when she was alive, so she decided she'd get more if she wasn't.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Xaios said:


> My problem is that, as soon as this was discovered, your reaction changed to that of someone who felt slighted because of it, going from sympathy tempered with a reasonable level of skepticism to full on "she lied, fuck her," as proven by this:
> 
> 
> 
> The proper response would have been "why did she lie?" The most obvious reason is that she was ashamed of her true actions, which would be understandable, but another reason is simply that she was looking for sympathy (as opposed to mere attention). She clearly didn't get it when she was alive, so she decided she'd get more if she wasn't.



You quoted the wrong guy...


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## Xaios (Oct 17, 2012)

Holy fuck. Yup. I am a moron. 

My apologies. I obviously need coffee, the internet is starting to blend together. 

If anyone wants to neg me for that, I would totally understand. I deserve it there.


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## YngwieJ (Oct 17, 2012)

I can understand the argument that if you're going to give Amanda Todd this attention, then give this attention to everyone who commits suicide--and I agree with that. We definitely need more coverage of these types of issues in our society so that we can work on helping these people before they are driven to the point of suicide. 

But how is is it that people are outraged that Amanda has gotten so much media coverage? Are people jealous of her for becoming well-known across the world? Her story is a tragedy, regardless of the things she did wrong. Stories like these need more coverage and more investigation--not less. 



CannibalKiller said:


> These are not good things. However, when a girl does these things she suddenly becomes famous worldwide. Politicians are talking about her, people are praising her in countries she's never been to. That's a bad message to send to kids.


And why shouldn't people be talking about her? Why shouldn't politicians be talking about this issue? Bullying and suicide prevention are important issues in any country and they often don't get enough attention. But every once in a while a story comes along that really captures the peoples' attention and puts the pressure on finding solutions to the problem. 

During the course of reading about Amanda's story, I've been astounded by the insensitivity and lack of compassion among some people.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

I can understand your point of view. I'm just a cynical bastard.


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## Pooluke41 (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> I can understand your point of view. I'm just a cynical bastard.



Your opinion isn't really a cynical view, it's really just pretty ignorant.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 17, 2012)

Yup. How old are you CK? 16?


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## YngwieJ (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> I can understand your point of view. I'm just a cynical bastard.


Well at least you admit it.

But the last statement in my last post wasn't necessarily directed at you CK, but all of those we've seen in FB posts, youtube videos, and Fat-Elf's comment in this thread.


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## Jakke (Oct 17, 2012)

Xaios said:


> My apologies. I obviously need coffee, the internet is starting to blend together.
> 
> If anyone wants to neg me for that, I would totally understand. I deserve it there.



Seems to me like you need a hug


Better?


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Pooluke41 said:


> Your opinion isn't really a cynical view, it's really just pretty ignorant.



I don't see why you had to say that. I might have offended some people with the things I said, but I always had a reason for saying it. It's not like I came on here and posted something like this:
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqnwug9LDt1qbl39mo1_500.gif

So yeah, I was trying to leave this thread on good terms, and you fucked it up with a needless comment, just because you disagree with my opinion.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yup. How old are you CK? 16?



Granted I am younger than that, but my age doesn't necessarily reflect the legitimacy of what I say.


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## Jakke (Oct 17, 2012)

Not the legitimacy, but one can question your emotional maturity and experience because of your age. Now, I will not do that, but those are the things that people could question about you.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Jakke said:


> Not the legitimacy, but one can question your emotional maturity and experience because of your age. Now, I will not do that, but those are the things that people could question about you.



Not to sound arrogant but I feel I'm slightly more mature than most people my age  But I see your point.


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## Jakke (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> Not to sound arrogant but I feel I'm slightly more mature than most people my age  But I see your point.



As did I, but it's mainly in retrospect that one realizes that one (Queen speech FTW) was not so different from everyone else after all.


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## Murmel (Oct 17, 2012)

^
I thought I was super mature at 15. Looking back, holy hell was I wrong...  Not saying I'm mature now either, I just try less being mature. I don't care as much anymore.



SpaceDock said:


> Amanda should have moved on, fuck Facebook and the Internet ruling your life. I don't care if there was a pic of me sucking donkey balls posted on every Facebook page, my life would carry on.



Thing is, what happens on the internet doesn't stay on the internet. You will get shit for things that you've done on the internet regardless whether you stayed after it happened or not. Kids her age are even more engulfed by the raging flames that is Facebook, and that just makes it worse. Social media is a huuuge part of their lives. There's a reason as to why 10 year olds have iPhones and FB accounts.

Sure, it'll go away eventually, but saying that you can simply "move on" after something like this is pretty dumb


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> Not to sound arrogant but I feel I'm slightly more mature than most people my age  But I see your point.



No you really arent. Looking at your previous posts plus rep proves it too. Whatever though, back on topic..

Its too bad a little kid died.


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 17, 2012)

I'd say moving schools and home constitutes as moving on. That's why she commit suicide, she felt she couldn't move on and escape her mistakes. Imagine trying to find love and friends when everyone calls you 'that slut with nudes all over the internet'. 



CannibalKiller said:


> Not to sound arrogant but I feel I'm slightly more mature than most people my age  But I see your point.



Every teenager thinks that. They can't all be right.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> I'd say moving schools and home constitutes as moving on. That's why she commit suicide, she felt she couldn't move on and escape her mistakes. Imagine trying to find love and friends when everyone calls you 'that slut with nudes all over the internet'.
> 
> 
> 
> Every teenager thinks that. They can't all be right.



Yeah but there's a difference between reading Dante and saying "YOLO SWAG BITCHEZ BE CRAZY"


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## vampiregenocide (Oct 17, 2012)

There's a difference between being mature, and being mature in comparison to an immature person.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> No you really arent. Looking at your previous posts plus rep proves it too. Whatever though, back on topic..
> 
> Its too bad a little kid died.



Previous posts? As in, in the past? 

Besides, I'm clearly more mature than that guy who seems to be waging a personal war against everything I post because he disagrees with me.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> There's a difference between being mature, and being mature in comparison to an immature person.



I said "more mature than most people my age." Never said I was mature in general. In fact I'm a total douche, but compared to most of my friends I'm Shakespeare


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## Xaios (Oct 17, 2012)

Jakke said:


> Seems to me like you need a hug
> 
> 
> Better?



Yes.


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## Jakke (Oct 17, 2012)




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## vampiregenocide (Oct 17, 2012)

CannibalKiller said:


> I said "more mature than most people my age." Never said I was mature in general. In fact I'm a total douche, but compared to most of my friends I'm Shakespeare



Well if you feel like you are immature and a total douche, perhaps these are things you should take into consideration when stating an opinion on such a heavy matter. Sometimes it is good to step back and think about what you are saying and whether there is a more constructive and respectful way of saying it, something I feel that you and others could have done with many posts in this thread.


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## CannibalKiller (Oct 17, 2012)

vampiregenocide said:


> Well if you feel like you are immature and a total douche, perhaps these are things you should take into consideration when stating an opinion on such a heavy matter. Sometimes it is good to step back and think about what you are saying and whether there is a more constructive and respectful way of saying it, something I feel that you and others could have done with many posts in this thread.



True.


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## JosephAOI (Oct 17, 2012)

Holy fuck. That's psychotic. It's so hard to believe that there really are organizations like that all around the world and that people could actually do things like that.

To be honest, after reading that, I'm starting to think she was more of a victim than anything else. This is like fucking CSI now. Crazy shit. Jesus.


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## matt397 (Oct 17, 2012)

Just curious about something, how many parents in here ? I mean how many of you have kids of your own ? I see a few posters in here using phrases like "poor parenting" and stating there should of been more parental involvement. You can not be awake and supervise your children 24/7 and You can not control every aspect of a childs life. If you try to, your kids will grow to resent you and do everything you don't want them to. The tighter you squeeze, the sooner they slip through your hands.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 17, 2012)

matt397 said:


> Just curious about something, how many parents in here ? I mean how many of you have kids of your own ? I see a few posters in here using phrases like "poor parenting" and stating there should of been more parental involvement. You can not be awake and supervise your children 24/7 and You can not control every aspect of a childs life. If you try to, your kids will grow to resent you and do everything you don't want them to. The tighter you squeeze, the sooner they slip through your hands.



Actually your parenting plays a huge role in a child's development. Obviously there is only so far you can go but if you take a few basic psych/soci courses it becomes fairly obvious parents are really important. 

Even using Todd as an example, why didn't her parents do more to get the RCMP involved? You can tell me the police are lazy (and they are) but from personal experience I can tell you you just have to be persistant. Clearly her parents were not. Im not blaming them entirely but even looking at the schools they allowed her to attend....most of them are not exactly great.


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## skeels (Oct 17, 2012)

^ Sometimes it's all we can do to teach our children to be strong and to believe in themselves.

Truthfully none of us know exactly what happened and to what extent. 

We should not judge.

We should not seek to place blame.

If only we can learn and pass on what we have learned perhaps some future tragedy could be avoided.


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## Semichastny (Oct 17, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Actually your parenting plays a huge role in a child's development. Obviously there is only so far you can go but if you take a few basic psych/soci courses it becomes fairly obvious parents are really important.



I think he was talking about over-parenting and unrealistic expectations for what parents can actually do.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 18, 2012)

Semichastny said:


> I think he was talking about over-parenting and unrealistic expectations for what parents can actually do.



It's not unrealistic to expect parents to pay more attention to the way their children use the internet. I for one think it's not good when children start having facebook accounts or e-mail accounts at 10-15. They don't need that. I have fond memories of my adolescence because I didn't spend a lot of time in front of the computer. I was outdoors, interacting with real people and playing real games (no Wii bullshit). 



CannibalKiller said:


> *Barker
> Dude, pretty much everything he says is true.



I'm sorry dude, but if you think that this young redneck has access to the "truth", then I have bad news for you and your brain ...


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## mcd (Oct 18, 2012)

matt397 said:


> Just curious about something, how many parents in here ? I mean how many of you have kids of your own ? I see a few posters in here using phrases like "poor parenting" and stating there should of been more parental involvement. You can not be awake and supervise your children 24/7 and You can not control every aspect of a childs life. If you try to, your kids will grow to resent you and do everything you don't want them to. The tighter you squeeze, the sooner they slip through your hands.



I am a parent, not for long now and just my first...but shit like this gets to me, as a former rebellious child with parents that were a little tight on the squeeze I worry. I just hope to set a good example for my son, and future children to follow. That's the best i can do i feel.


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## Jakke (Oct 18, 2012)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> I have fond memories of my adolescence because I didn't spend a lot of time in front of the computer. I was outdoors, interacting with real people and playing real games (no Wii bullshit)



Yup, we were out in the forest, whacking each other with sticks.


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## matt397 (Oct 18, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Actually your parenting plays a huge role in a child's development. Obviously there is only so far you can go but if you take a few basic psych/soci courses it becomes fairly obvious parents are really important.



First off, I have 2 kids of my own, 1 of which I raised as a single father on my own for the first year of her life, do not lecture me on the importance of an involved parent. Second, there is no need to get condescending with me. That shit is completely uncalled for. no one needs to take psych/soci courses to understand the importance of involved parents.
I was addressing the fact that there is no way for her mother or father to control every waking minute of there childs life. I thought that was fairly obvious ?



Stealthdjentstic said:


> Even using Todd as an example, why didn't her parents do more to get the RCMP involved?


 I never once said that her mother or father were incapable of calling police or whatever your insinuating. I'm not sure of how persistent they were, I wasn't there, neither were you.[/quote]



Stealthdjentstic said:


> You can tell me the police are lazy (and they are) but from personal experience I can tell you you just have to be persistant. Clearly her parents were not.


Sure, there is a possibility they didn't pursue the RCMP at all, who knows. 



Stealthdjentstic said:


> Im not blaming them entirely but even looking at the schools they allowed her to attend....most of them are not exactly great.


 Im not sure you understand how it works, you live in the area of your choosing that reflects your income, in that area you have a select few schools to choose from. Hopefully your kid ends up in a decent school with decent teachers and your not going to find out until your kid attends that school. You can go by hear-say all you want but I've experienced this myself, you never know until your child attends the school.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 18, 2012)

matt397 said:


> First off, I have 2 kids of my own, 1 of which I raised as a single father on my own for the first year of her life, do not lecture me on the importance of an involved parent. Second, there is no need to get condescending with me. That shit is completely uncalled for. no one needs to take psych/soci courses to understand the importance of involved parents.
> I was addressing the fact that there is no way for her mother or father to control every waking minute of there childs life. I thought that was fairly obvious ?
> 
> I never once said that her mother or father were incapable of calling police or whatever your insinuating. I'm not sure of how persistent they were, I wasn't there, neither were you.


 

Sure, there is a possibility they didn't pursue the RCMP at all, who knows. 


Im not sure you understand how it works, you live in the area of your choosing that reflects your income, in that area you have a select few schools to choose from. Hopefully your kid ends up in a decent school with decent teachers and your not going to find out until your kid attends that school. You can go by hear-say all you want but I've experienced this myself, you never know until your child attends the school.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't trying to be condescending or anything, sorry if I came across that way. The thing about the schools is that almost of those schools were not the main schools where she lived, they were schools for "troubled" kids. I live in the same area as her (about 45 min away) and the only kids I ever knew that went to those kind of schools had terrible parents. And im sorry, but how can a parent not figure out there kid is doing loads of drugs or drinking a lot? Its pretty easy to tell man, especially if they are 15 all it takes is a little bit of snooping around on their computer or something like that. Its not really rocket science.


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## matt397 (Oct 18, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Sure, there is a possibility they didn't pursue the RCMP at all, who knows.
> 
> 
> Im not sure you understand how it works, you live in the area of your choosing that reflects your income, in that area you have a select few schools to choose from. Hopefully your kid ends up in a decent school with decent teachers and your not going to find out until your kid attends that school. You can go by hear-say all you want but I've experienced this myself, you never know until your child attends the school.



I wasn't trying to be condescending or anything, sorry if I came across that way. The thing about the schools is that almost of those schools were not the main schools where she lived, they were schools for "troubled" kids. I live in the same area as her (about 45 min away) and the only kids I ever knew that went to those kind of schools had terrible parents. And im sorry, but how can a parent not figure out there kid is doing loads of drugs or drinking a lot? Its pretty easy to tell man, especially if they are 15 all it takes is a little bit of snooping around on their computer or something like that. Its not really rocket science.[/QUOTE]

Keep in mind this all started at the age of 12 when she flashed her boobs on internet. I'm pretty sure the problems started well before 15. Its not so obvious that your 12 year old is exposing herself on the internet. Something else to think about, every parent thinks there kid is perfect, well most anyway, so there is the possibility her parents simply didn't see it coming. Who knows. 
Also if her parents went out of there way to enroll her in a school geared towards troubled kids then they are obviously involved enough to be aware of behavioural problems and are pro active about finding solutions to the behaviour problems. 
Anyway, i just wanted to add that its not as easy as everyone thinks raising children so before you point your finger at the parents try an put yourself in the position of the parent.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 18, 2012)

Good point. I would never send my kid to one of those schools though, they don't actually really help kids in her situation, they tend to make things a lot worse because you end up surrounded with a bunch of kids that are fools.


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## matt397 (Oct 18, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Good point. I would never send my kid to one of those schools though, they don't actually really help kids in her situation, they tend to make things a lot worse because you end up surrounded with a bunch of kids that are fools.



Totally agree with you on that point.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 19, 2012)

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Good point. I would never send my kid to one of those schools though, they don't actually really help kids in her situation, they tend to make things a lot worse *because you end up surrounded with a bunch of kids that are fools.*



How about the parents? One common mistake is assuming that the children alone are guilty of behaving in idiotic ways. But then I read something like this...

Unmasking Reddit's Violentacrez, The Biggest Troll on the Web

...and it stops surprising me that there can be children out there being raised to become bullies. If a 50-year-old guy is stupid enough to surf the next (together with his wife who is in the same bed with her own laptop) and post pictures of underage girls, then you can't really expect little children to be mature in some sort of way.


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## Phrygian (Oct 19, 2012)

I hate people. Seriously, there are people who blackmail young kids as their hobby? wtf?! 

It is terrible that a young kid has taken her life, no matter what the reason and I feel so sorry for her.


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## squid-boy (Oct 20, 2012)

Gothic Headhunter said:


> While I agree with your assumption, it's not really relevant. She allowed a picture of her tits to be seen by someone that she didn't know. Even though he requested it, it was ultimately her decision. Kids of both genders should know by the age of 12 not to post/send pictures of themselves to people that they don't know.



Well, she didn't _allow_ her picture to be seen - she flashed her bare breasts on webcam. How many 12 year old girls do you think know the function of the print screen button? Probably not as many as you would first assume. He was the adult in the situation and he should have known what he was doing was wrong. Blaming the victim is simply wrong; girls/women don't get raped because of the way they dress, they get raped because the offender is a violent, malicious monster who wants to harm others and uses sex as their vessel. 

And even if she did send nude photos to other people - she shouldn't have been harassed to the point of suicide. No matter the circumstances. 



kennedyblake said:


> Not necessarily. Again, were reverting back to the parenting issue.



Here, I will have to agree with you, especially. We all have a need to be validated in a multitude of ways; emotionally, physically, sexually, and so on. And when we don't get them from people in the real world, we search elsewhere. Personally, I think anyone who believes that they had enough common sense at the age of 12 to deal with things of this magnitude is greatly overestimating their maturity and intelligence at that age; I'm guilty of it too. 

But we must recognize that a life has met it's unjust loss.


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## tacotiklah (Oct 20, 2012)

People say she deserved to die and got what was coming to her? Really?....
Yeah like people never did anything dumb and stupid in their life. She was a kid, a kid that had no idea about the consequences of her actions. If you wanna be mad at anybody, be mad at her parents for not being there for her and demonstrating why showing your tits online is never a good idea. 

But I digress, even if they had done so, ALL teenagers do dumb, idiotic shit. Hey why don't we just poison and hang every one of them because, "hey, they deserve it as consequences for their actions." Every person deserves a chance at redemption, and there is no excuse for bullying and harassing a person to death. The only holier-than-thou shit I see going on here is coming from the puritanical asshats that act like their own shit doesn't stink.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 20, 2012)

Just when you thought mankind was worth something:

Amanda Todd's Death | Know Your Meme


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## JPhoenix19 (Oct 20, 2012)

matt397 said:


> Just curious about something, how many parents in here ? I mean how many of you have kids of your own ? I see a few posters in here using phrases like "poor parenting" and stating there should of been more parental involvement. You can not be awake and supervise your children 24/7 and You can not control every aspect of a childs life. If you try to, your kids will grow to resent you and do everything you don't want them to. The tighter you squeeze, the sooner they slip through your hands.



Fucking thank you!

The people who are criticizing the parents are part of the reason I've been avoiding this thread- and really any discussion about Amanda Todd's case. The bottom line is that people simply do not know anything about the situation aside from what they read on the internet. The whole ordeal is a churning caldron of information containing varying degrees of truth, and people one the internet make themselves critics of shit they know very little about.

 Sorry, as a parent of a 3-year-old girl (and another girl on the way), this shit boils my blood.


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## Ibanezsam4 (Oct 20, 2012)

as sad as this and other situations like this are, it is important for those of us who wish to be parents one day to realize these are the dangers of the digital society we now live in.
i remember my mom telling me stories of when i was little about kids like me who never came home because they went off with a stranger, and i will tell you it scared the fucking shit out of me (she didn't give me the gruesome details of what probably happened to them btw). this little girl was probably taught the same, dont go wandering away and/or talk to strangers... but one thing the internet has done is given the people who use it a false sense of security. this girl probably thought "i dont have my address or anything public, and this guy im chatting with doesn't know where i live or anything, so im safe." 

every year i seem to learn how false the idea of "anonymity" is on the internet, i really don't expect younger kids to realize how open their lives are online. we still live in an age where most people think the internet and unlimited access to social networking is harmless, so why would the current generation of children think otherwise? 

basically what im getting at is i think this is incentive for me to remember that when im a dad and need to talk to my kids about strangers it will include talking to them in the real world and the digital world. and i will probably use this case as an example, just like my mom used news stories to teach me the same. 

my thoughts go to her family.


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## engage757 (Oct 20, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> If she really was stupid enough to give a pic of her boobs to a stranger on the internet then I don't say she really deserved all the shit she got but she should have known where it leads.  But yeah, she was very young at the time and I remember acting also kinda unresponsibly around the internet during that age so therefore I think it's up to parents to really focus on what their kids are doing on the internet.




Agreed. I did plenty of dumb shit without thinking at that age. Young, impressionable little girl craving male attention? yeah.


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## bob123 (Oct 21, 2012)

Wait wait wait...

So... at 12 she was caught showing her boobs online...


And... at 15 kills herself partially due to cyber bullying.....


Can some explain who would let their child have unsupervised internet EVER again????


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## MythicSquirrel (Oct 21, 2012)

Oh wow While casually browsing Facebook I see one of my friends liked a picture posted on the "R.I.P. Amanda Todd" page. It was a picture of a mutilated dog with "Like and share if you are against animal abuse!" as the caption. 
So it's just one of those pages now?


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 21, 2012)

MythicSquirrel said:


> Oh wow While casually browsing Facebook I see one of my friends liked a picture posted on the "R.I.P. Amanda Todd" page. It was a picture of a mutilated dog with "Like and share if you are against animal abuse!" as the caption.
> So it's just one of those pages now?



Same thing happened with the Trayvon Martin page.

This is what happens when you let 13-year-olds run Facebook pages.


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## Jakke (Oct 21, 2012)

Hey guis, like if you thik boys are better than girls, comment if you think girls are better than boys and like an share if you think both are best!!!! <3<3<3


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 21, 2012)

Jakke said:


> Hey guis, like if you think boys are better than girls, keep scrolling if youre a pedo <3<3<3





EDIT: Now why'd you go on an edit your comment?


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## Jakke (Oct 21, 2012)

I am thine humble servant


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## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 21, 2012)

Jakke said:


> I am thine humble servant


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## flint757 (Oct 21, 2012)

I find it very odd that this incident (if we assume the 12 year old one was the only one) that this would have followed her for 4 years. Kids when I was in High School were short sighted. I got picked on for things, hard in intermediate school, that didn't last for more than a semester. Why would flashing someone lead to such harsh bullying too? Again at schools I had been too that wouldn't be something someone would get picked on for; if we are being realistic, among guys it'd probably make her more popular. Reading through though I see it is girls who were bullying her(in many ways their bullying can be worse) which I imagine was more about jealousy than not as she probably got loads of attention (at that age that is a big part of what young women want from my experiences, speaking VERY generally on my part).

As for her going to a 'school for bad kids' I assume that was her attempt at getting away from the drama, not only bad kids go to those type of schools. In most school districts your options are the school in your district, reform school or private school.

All that being said she clearly enjoyed attention; flashing, youtube videos, verbalized suicide, but that doesn't really change the results of the event or the dangers of bullying (kids are far more cruel than adults). Maturity brings about perspective and kindness most children lack.

To add I hate what facebook has become, I liked it more when it was for college only.


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## Brill (Oct 22, 2012)

YouTube - Amanda Todd Suicide and Bullying - It Wasn&#39;t Deserved, Moron


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## bob123 (Oct 23, 2012)

Ill be blunt as I usually am. The people (parents) saying the parents are absolved of this are either blind to the world, or just plain dumb. If you're REALLY stating the parents share no responsibility in this you're dead wrong. This child was sexually predated on the internet. If the parents gave her internet access again it should have been closely monitored. This was also not a 1 day process. Developing suicidal tendencies takes weeks, months, or years of altered behavior. To say you wouldn't notice a childs behavior means you aren't keeping any tabs on them at all, or your not home ever. Either way, there's some sort of poor parenting going on. Its not about being up your childs ass 24/7, its about being safe, smart, and cognizant of your childs behavior. They were unsafe and functionally retarded giving her unescorted access to the internet, and failed to recognize warning signs as they presumably showed themselves.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 23, 2012)

Agreed 100%


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## flint757 (Oct 23, 2012)

bob123 said:


> Ill be blunt as I usually am. The people (parents) saying the parents are absolved of this are either blind to the world, or just plain dumb. If you're REALLY stating the parents share no responsibility in this you're dead wrong. This child was sexually predated on the internet. If the parents gave her internet access again it should have been closely monitored. This was also not a 1 day process. Developing suicidal tendencies takes weeks, months, or years of altered behavior. To say you wouldn't notice a childs behavior means you aren't keeping any tabs on them at all, or your not home ever. Either way, there's some sort of poor parenting going on. Its not about being up your childs ass 24/7, its about being safe, smart, and cognizant of your childs behavior. They were unsafe and functionally retarded giving her unescorted access to the internet, and failed to recognize warning signs as they presumably showed themselves.



I know this isn't what they meant (the parents you speak of), but I'm currently raising my niece and nephew (not on my own) because my sister lost her kids (bad parent; CPS) and I can assure you parents play a HUGE part and children's behavior development. In fact all habits, behavior, schedule, etc. in their earliest years play the largest role in what path a child will end up taking through adolescence. Under my sisters care there was no structure, no rules and they got in trouble when breaking non-existent rules inconsistently. This lead to emotional issues and created a year long process in my home of having to alter all of these developed habits. If parenting didn't matter then these kids would be just as bad as they were before and they definitely aren't.

In her teenage years they should have kept at least one eye on her especially if they were aware of any past incidents and more than that they are part of the root problem as their parenting style (or lack of) is what caused some of the behaviors she had developed (kids aren't born bad). I'm not accusing them of being intentionally bad either as there isn't one solution for every child, what works on one child doesn't always work for another, but can still cause unintended problems. Daughters seem to be affected greatly by absent parents (especially absent fathers) and I'm going to take a very good guess that either he isn't around or works more than he is home.


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## misingonestring (Oct 26, 2012)

There was a girl at my high school who walked in front of a train last school year and I haven't heard anything about it worldwide.

But then again she wasn't bullied unlike this person.

Still sad.


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## bob123 (Oct 26, 2012)

misingonestring said:


> There was a girl at my high school who walked in front of a train last school year and I haven't heard anything about it worldwide.
> 
> But then again she wasn't bullied unlike this person.
> 
> Still sad.



Theres a suicide in the US alone once every 18 minutes.


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## Xaios (Oct 27, 2012)

Must have made the news because it only happens 1/10th as frequently in Canada.


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## flint757 (Oct 27, 2012)

Is that where Amanda Todd is from?


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## Jakke (Oct 27, 2012)

Yeah


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## bob123 (Oct 27, 2012)

Xaios said:


> Must have made the news because it only happens 1/10th as frequently in Canada.



So once every three hours.


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## Xaios (Oct 27, 2012)

bob123 said:


> So once every three hours.



Eh, probably.


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## bob123 (Oct 27, 2012)

1


Xaios said:


> Eh, probably.



18 minutes times 10 equals 180. 180 minutes is three hours.


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## skeels (Oct 27, 2012)

Just last week there was another shooting spree not to far from here.

Welcome to America ..


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## Xaios (Oct 28, 2012)

bob123 said:


> 1
> 
> 18 minutes times 10 equals 180. 180 minutes is three hours.



Sigh, nevermind.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 28, 2012)

They dont do math in the yukon


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## bob123 (Oct 28, 2012)

Xaios said:


> Sigh, nevermind.



Your point is moot. Hence why I didn't take it seriously. One suicide every three hours is still a big deal to me, as it should be to you. We have 10 times the suicide, but we also have ten times the population. Spread across the actual numbers, your suicide rates are actually higher per capita, which is contrary to what you were trying to convey. No beef, just stating the actual facts.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Oct 28, 2012)

What do you expect from those freedom hating Canadians Bob? 

They dont even accept good old Freedom Dollars up here for some reason. Totally fucked!


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## Xaios (Oct 28, 2012)

bob123 said:


> Your point is moot. Hence why I didn't take it seriously. One suicide every three hours is still a big deal to me, as it should be to you. We have 10 times the suicide, but we also have ten times the population. Spread across the actual numbers, your suicide rates are actually higher per capita, which is contrary to what you were trying to convey. No beef, just stating the actual facts.



Actually, I was simply making a joke. You read WAAAAY too far into it.

EDIT: For the record, the actual suicide rate in Canada is almost identical to the US, albeit slightly higher for women, slightly lower for men.


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## groph (Oct 28, 2012)

Fat-Elf said:


> FFS! Are you people too ashamed to change your opinion now when you realise that everything she have said is not true or what? This skank just wanted attention and apparently got it more than enough.



Cool it with the misogyny.



1. Selective Caring IE "People only care she's dead because she's pretty and white" - Good job further sexualizing it. And also, this criticism is basically the same thing as criticizing an environmental activist for having a computer, or by criticizing an anarchist for having their books published by a mainstream publisher. You have to get your message across somehow. Just because you don't give a flying fuck about people who are less privileged than you doesn't mean *nobody* cares, would you kindly shut the hell up when someone speaks out.

2. "IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO BAD PARENTING" - Yeah, like every other thing that goes wrong with a child. "Bad parenting" is such a catch-all scapegoat for this kind of thing. I bet if Hitler were raised better, he wouldn't have organized a genocide. Amanda was probably old enough to want to differentiate herself from her parents so she probably doesn't communicate every last thing with them. I'd be almost certain she wouldn't have wanted to bring up "Hey, Mom and Dad, there are nudes of me on the Internet, wat do?" with them so it's not unreasonable to infer that maybe her parents had no idea she was being exploited or they didn't know the full depth of the situation. It's also an example of classic hindsight logic. "A kid killed herself? Well I bet her parents must have sucked!" You don't think, "Wow, that kid hasn't killed themselves yet, I bet their parents are doing a bang-up job!"

3. Amanda Todd Shouldn't have Flashed a Dude, like WTH? - This one is victim blaming, and it also ignores what allegedly happened. She was coerced into further webcam activity. As far as I know, she flashed a guy on webcam, the guy print-screened and then used that to blackmail her into performing camshows for him. Print screening it alone makes that guy a child pornographer, and then in turn using the print screen against her makes this guy a fucking monster. Obviously she shouldn't have flashed the guy, I'm not saying it was an amazing idea but again that's hindsight! Why are we just passively accepting it when a girl is torn down in public due to her sexual activity? She was exploited and there absolutely is a big gender component at play here. This is more evidence that women can't be as open about sex as men can be. If Amanda were a boy, yes, it's totally possible he could have been coerced into extremely unfavorable situations by an older predator. Gender isn't the ONLY component. I'm mostly referring to golden comments like Fat Elf's here, calling her a "skank" and anybody who said anything similar to any girl or woman to express distaste at her sexuality. How dare a woman enjoy sex!

Maybe the person who coerced Amanda was a particularly sick individual, no a "normal" man probably wouldn't blackmail a very young girl into situations like Amanda was in but isn't it telling how sex, especially that of a girl or woman can be used against her? Why was it used to justify bullying? I bet it was mostly girls who were calling her a slut and a whore since girls really seem to slut shame more than guys do (this is purely anecdotal) but it doesn't really matter who is saying what - it's the culture these things are being said in that is fucked up. Sex shouldn't be used against anybody, ever, under any circumstances.

4. "This was just a cry for attention" - So fucking what? What's wrong with "crying for attention?" Have you ever found yourself in a situation where you might kill yourself? Do suicidal people just wake up one day and feel "Well, today is definitely it. Suddenly I am 100% certain I am going to successfully end my own life." It's gradual. A friend of mine intentionally overdosed on Tylenol 3's a couple of years ago. He doesn't get along well with his family. He took enough to warrant a trip to the hospital but not anywhere near enough to kill him. So should I treat him like shit and disregard his pain because he didn't try hard enough to kill himself? Is wanting attention such a terrible thing?

Maybe Amanda WAS looking for help but she didn't know where to turn. Her exploitation was sexual in nature so she probably blamed herself for a lot of it, and she might have been worried she'd get into serious trouble with the authorities. Maybe she was further threatened by those who exploited her. Imagine being a 12-15 year old girl in her situation. Who do you turn to for help when nobody believes you're a victim and instead calls you a whore for what "you got yourself into?"

EDIT: This post, besides "cool it with the misogyny" isn't directed at Fat Elf.


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## flint757 (Oct 28, 2012)

Almost all behavior is environmental and every person I have come into contact with who had behavioral issues as a child were not raised in the best of circumstances or their parents weren't very good (enablers, emotionally abandoned, physically abandoned, abusive, etc.) and it has been proven time and time again that when the father isn't in the picture girls typically act out and many times sexually. 

I'm not going to say it is their fault entirely, but they do shoulder at least some of the blame (which you seem to imply otherwise). My point wasn't 'oh she killed herself, what bad parents they were', but more that there was something not right in her life for her to even end up there in the first place and most parents don't realize it until it is too late (her behavior, stripteasing at that age, is also typically related to feeling abandoned, which would be by her parents at 11 or 12). There isn't a magical answer to parenting, but that doesn't mean the approach isn't to blame either; it just means that it wasn't intentional.

As for the flashing thing yes, hindsight and all that, but whether or not it is relevant, it is undeniable that she really shouldn't have flashed people on the web. That being said kids do stupid things; that is the biggest difference between adults and children so it is to be expected.

And yes I do think crying for attention is something that should not be encouraged. When a child cries for attention we don't just give in, you have to make boundaries otherwise it becomes the 'go to' thing that they do; I don't think it should be any different for a teenager or an adult. 

No, I have never wanted to kill myself because I value my life even if others don't. Living a shitty existence is better than not living at all IMO. It shouldn't be ignored as there is obviously a problem, but if that is the only time you 'give in' to the attention then that is what they are going to continue to do to get it (which is not good when it is something that could potentially kill them). If something is going to change from such an incident then it would have to change entirely, not just in these select circumstances.

I do agree though that seeking help, given her circumstance, would be very hard for her to do (given the nature of it), but her life really wasn't as bad as she felt it was. I've seen, experienced and know those who have suffered a lot worse. JMO YMMV


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## tacotiklah (Oct 29, 2012)

Well I probably wasn't clear in my previous post, so I'll attempt to clarify. Truth is that I have no clue if her parents were there or not. Nothing I've seen or read has indicated either way. However when a teenage suicide or homicide happens, you bet that's the first thing I question. The parents aren't always at fault, but in a majority of cases, their indifference (or even wrongly perceived indifference) is a big factor. 

That said, kids are crafty little devils and very hard to keep your eyes on 24/7. This problem only worsens as they age. So I can see the argument that a kid can get sucked up in crap like webcam exploitation, despite the best efforts of parents. I just see more times than not parents that pay no attention to their kids and let them run wild. Maybe careers or marital problems got in the way. Who knows right? Then when shit happens, they wanna point fingers at and blame everyone else. For that reason, I see no harm in at least asking where the parents were in all of this. Better to ask difficult questions to find out the truth, than let feelings be spared and no solutions to these problems be found.

I'd also ask where the parents were of all those little trolling asshats that bullied her constantly online. Do they even know of the vile shit their kids get up to? If they did, would they even care? Truth is that kids are selfish and egotistical by nature. It's not even entirely their fault (if my memory of brain development from psy 101 serves me right), but that's why there's a need for parents to teach them better. Monitoring facebook is a must these days because you never know half the shit your offspring are getting up to. If nothing is done to correct that behavior, it will continue long into adulthood. Here's a great example of adult bullying at it's worst:
Rush Limbaugh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Xaios (Oct 29, 2012)

ghstofperdition said:


> Monitoring facebook is a must these days because you never know half the shit your offspring are getting up to.



This brings up an interesting point. Last week I was listening to the radio while I was going to grab lunch, and they were interviewing a woman who's teenage daughter had committed suicide I think about a year prior.

The mother talks about how, at the time, she thought she had knowledge of all her daughter's online activities. She had forced her daughter to give her the passwords of all accounts such as Facebook and the mother checked them periodically, as well as keeping an eye on the daughter's online activities when she was around to do so. Alas, the daughter had alternate accounts that she used when her mother wasn't around to supervise her. And the mother didn't find out about until after her daughter had killed herself.

The mother doesn't absolve herself of blame by any means. Similar to Amanda Todd, this instance also saw the daughter's online activities (which she willfully hid from her mother) spill over into real life. She recalled how the daughter had begged her to home school her, and the mother refused. The mother states quite plainly that it should have raised a bunch of red flags about her online habits, but it didn't.


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## groph (Oct 29, 2012)

flint757 said:


> Almost all behavior is environmental and every person I have come into contact with who had behavioral issues as a child were not raised in the best of circumstances or their parents weren't very good (enablers, emotionally abandoned, physically abandoned, abusive, etc.) and it has been proven time and time again that when the father isn't in the picture girls typically act out and many times sexually.
> 
> I'm not going to say it is their fault entirely, but they do shoulder at least some of the blame (which you seem to imply otherwise). My point wasn't 'oh she killed herself, what bad parents they were', but more that there was something not right in her life for her to even end up there in the first place and most parents don't realize it until it is too late (her behavior, stripteasing at that age, is also typically related to feeling abandoned, which would be by her parents at 11 or 12). There isn't a magical answer to parenting, but that doesn't mean the approach isn't to blame either; it just means that it wasn't intentional.
> 
> ...



I'm not really sure where I stand on the "parenting" issue really. You'd think I'd be totally "nurture" over "nature" and I suppose I am, but I just really hate how nearly every tragedy or unfortunate thing that happens to a kid that hits the news is explained in terms of bad parenting.

I can't sit here and deny that a child's upbringing isn't important at all but there are just a lot of background assumptions one makes when one pins something on "bad parenting." Parents don't have control over how the economy is, what goes on at a kid's school or community in general (unless I guess there's a good network with community organizers) in short, parents aren't powerful enough to justify being held as the scapegoat. Even things like alcoholism and child abuse are more common in areas that are getting the economic shaft and there are a million different factors at play there, many of which are outside of a parents' immediate control. Maybe there's something they could do, that would be great.

The thing with "crying for attention" is that it probably already HAS become the "thing to do" ala the boy who cried wolf. Almost anything teenage girls do that seems to be outside of the norm is dismissed as a cry for attention (like wearing tank tops, makeup, right on through to things like cutting) when in some cases yeah, it might actually be a sign of something bigger going on. I see it as a more passive way to ask for help because you're afraid to be direct with it, or you simply don't know how. So does every 13 year old girl wearing a tank top and mascara secretly need therapy? ... well probably not but this isn't the Presidential debate here. Actually that's a bad example of a debate too. Hopefully as a parent/teacher/whoever, if you're at least somewhat involved with the kid, you'd pick up on a sudden change in their behaviour.



ghstofperdition said:


> Well I probably wasn't clear in my previous post, so I'll attempt to clarify. Truth is that I have no clue if her parents were there or not. Nothing I've seen or read has indicated either way. However when a teenage suicide or homicide happens, you bet that's the first thing I question. The parents aren't always at fault, but in a majority of cases, their indifference (or even wrongly perceived indifference) is a big factor.
> 
> That said, kids are crafty little devils and very hard to keep your eyes on 24/7. This problem only worsens as they age. So I can see the argument that a kid can get sucked up in crap like webcam exploitation, despite the best efforts of parents. I just see more times than not parents that pay no attention to their kids and let them run wild. Maybe careers or marital problems got in the way. Who knows right? Then when shit happens, they wanna point fingers at and blame everyone else. For that reason, I see no harm in at least asking where the parents were in all of this. Better to ask difficult questions to find out the truth, than let feelings be spared and no solutions to these problems be found.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I wouldn't blame the kid for not knowing better. Legislation is having a hard time keeping up with the rapidly changing environment of online life and social media so I guess it's no surprise there are parents out there who don't know what to do and less of a surprise there are some kids who get into some nasty situations.

Good point in the last paragraph. The people who bullied her should be the ones being talked about, not Amanda per se.


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## Soubi7string (Oct 29, 2012)

Logic should have been used.
When I was 12 I went on the computer for games not to flash my dick.
The parents should have been monitoring their child better especially at that age.
She should have thought of the consequences as well.
Also she homewrecked.Went over to some dudes house WILLLINGLY and KNEW of the mans girlfriend being out of town and STILL had sex with him and expected NOTHING bad to happen.
Its sad and she brought it on herself.


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## groph (Oct 29, 2012)

Soubi7string said:


> Logic should have been used.
> When I was 12 I went on the computer for games not to flash my dick.
> The parents should have been monitoring their child better especially at that age.
> She should have thought of the consequences as well.
> ...




Oh how dare she! Do you have any idea how sexist that is?

What about the man (how old was he?) having sex with an underage girl? If he was an adult then he committed statutory rape. If he was her age at the time then saying she "homewrecked" is absolving him of any and all wrongdoing. Don't pin this all on her. You're basically saying "this slutty girl had it coming." This is really a disgusting post.


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## AxeHappy (Oct 29, 2012)

As a man whom has recently been (and may still be) suicidal I have this to say to everybody saying, She deserved it:


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## Xaios (Oct 30, 2012)

groph said:


> Oh how dare she! Do you have any idea how sexist that is?
> 
> What about the man (how old was he?) having sex with an underage girl? If he was an adult then he committed statutory rape. If he was her age at the time then saying she "homewrecked" is absolving him of any and all wrongdoing. Don't pin this all on her. You're basically saying "this slutty girl had it coming." This is really a disgusting post.



...except the guy in this specific instance was 13, younger than her. That doesn't absolve him, but in this scenario, she was technically the "older, responsible party."


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## groph (Oct 31, 2012)

Xaios said:


> ...except the guy in this specific instance was 13, younger than her. That doesn't absolve him, but in this scenario, she was technically the "older, responsible party."



Ah really? Well my point still stands even though it is now slightly less applicable to this case in particular. When you say "homewrecked" you're pinning all the responsibility on the female participant and you're invoking a big sexual double standard, that women can't get away with the same sexual things men can. The classic slut vs stud dynamic.

There actually aren't, contrary to popular belief, any forces that prevent a dude from not having sex with a girl if the opportunity comes up. Male sexuality shouldn't be treated as if it's uncontrollable.

I guess if he was 13 and she was 14 or 15 then it's sort of ill advised to start going off on a tangent as to who is supposed to be more responsible or not as that is a pretty damn young age to be having sex anyway. She probably wasn't "luring the defenseless boy into sex with her feminine guiles" either, I know plenty of guys who were enthusiastically having sex at 13-14. Ideally it shouldn't really matter THAT much if kids are having sex that young but unfortunately for them they're living in a society that is straight up terrified of kids having sex, so much that they won't get proper education about how to best protect themselves, let alone the total lack of how to deal with sex emotionally. None of that in any sex ed I'm aware of.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 31, 2012)

flint757 said:


> Almost all behavior is environmental



Is your last name "Skinner"?  

Careful with statements of that nature. Behavior is a byproduct of genes interacting with the environment.


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## flint757 (Oct 31, 2012)

Hey I said almost.  Obviously there are biological factors that make people more predispositioned to certain behaviors and attitudes (then some people have mental handicaps too and that is a whole other bag of tricks), but given the right circumstances pretty much everyone can live an arguably similar existence. The genetic factor is precisely why there isn't one parenting style that works for all children and why many take the road that is less desirable. I know little of genetics or sociology though so this is all just my observations and what little info I have digested over the years. I've been exposed to far more than I wish in my short lifetime...


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 31, 2012)

flint757 said:


> . *I know little of genetics or sociology though so this is all just my observations and what little info I have digested over the years. *.



I study psychology.


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## flint757 (Oct 31, 2012)

Awesome


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 31, 2012)

lol I meant to say that I know what I am talking about. People are not the same. Not even if the environment were the same for everyone, would you have humans behaving identically. It's a 50/50 relationship.


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## flint757 (Oct 31, 2012)

Wasn't being sarcastic (well maybe a little). 

And I agree. If you reread my post I was saying that if the environment was suited to one's genetic traits then everyone could live a similar existence, generally speaking, not that people can do so if it is just the same environment (which was my point about the varying parenting styles and home lives). My sister and I are very different people so I'm quite aware that environment isn't the only thing at play, but if one were able to identify someones genetic traits and adjust the environment best suited for it, I think people could live a 'normal' existence as judged by an outsider.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 31, 2012)

flint757 said:


> Wasn't being sarcastic (well maybe a little).
> 
> And I agree. If you reread my post I was saying that if the environment was suited to one's genetic traits then everyone could live a similar existence, generally speaking, not that people can do so if it is just the same environment (which was my point about the varying parenting styles and home lives). My sister and I are very different people so I'm quite aware that environment isn't the only thing at play, but if one were able to identify someones genetic traits and adjust the environment best suited for it, I think people could live a 'normal' existence as judged by an outsider.



What is a normal existence then?


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## flint757 (Oct 31, 2012)

m3l-mrq3z said:


> What is a normal existence then?



I put it in quotes simply because that is typically defined by society. Social mores seem to be where we begin to define normal and then from there is how we determine if someone is 'mentally ill', at least that is the basics from what I had learned in Psy101. Honestly after hearing that I had no interest in the subject simply because it is too subjective in that regard (I do realize there is a more concrete aspect to it as well). Pulling from memory I remember there was something like 7 things that defined abnormal behavior (or something like that) and if someone met the requirements for a certain number of them then they supposedly needed drugs or therapy. To answer your question is to repeat it as I don't know what normal is, but every society has defined it to be something in particular and it is usually what leads to the least deviant behavior in a community.

I'm referring mostly to disorders that are only defined through observation and not through MRI's, CAT scans, evaluations, etc..


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 31, 2012)

flint757 said:


> I put it in quotes simply because that is typically defined by society. Social mores seem to be where we begin to define normal and then from there is how we determine if someone is 'mentally ill', at least that is the basics from what I had learned in Psy101. Honestly after hearing that I had no interest in the subject simply because it is too subjective in that regard (I do realize there is a more concrete aspect to it as well). Pulling from memory I remember there was something like 7 things that defined abnormal behavior (or something like that) and if someone met the requirements for a certain number of them then they supposedly needed drugs or therapy. To answer your question is to repeat it as I don't know what normal is, but every society has defined it to be something in particular and it is usually what leads to the least deviant behavior in a community.
> 
> I'm referring mostly to disorders that are only defined through observation and not through MRI's, CAT scans, evaluations, etc..



Spot on. What is "normal" and what not is defined to a large extent by the society in question. It is a very subjective measure of mental illness. 

I believe you would enjoy reading Poe's short story named "The system of Professor Fether and Doctor Tarr". It basically portrays in a very elegant way how subjective mental health is.


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## flint757 (Oct 31, 2012)

Will do.


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## Semichastny (Oct 31, 2012)

Psycology has and always has been a field of study I cannot get behind as a whole. It has been subject to personal bias In a way the natural sciences can't. I remember my teacher explaining how a latino student's mother was labeled mentally retarded because she couldn't do an English IQ test (she didn't speak english). Psychology still doesn't even know what causes Schizophrenia and is so delusional that it wants to create a "normal" model of human behavior. I have seen time and time again this model is inaccurate, incomplete, and corrupted by the beliefs of the person applying them.


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## m3l-mrq3z (Oct 31, 2012)

Semichastny said:


> Psycology has and always has been a field of study I cannot get behind as a whole. It has been subject to personal bias In a way the natural sciences can't. I remember my teacher explaining how a latino student's mother was labeled mentally retarded because she couldn't do an English IQ test (she didn't speak english). Psychology still doesn't even know what causes Schizophrenia and is so delusional that it wants to create a "normal" model of human behavior. I have seen time and time again this model is inaccurate, incomplete, and corrupted by the beliefs of the person applying them.



My professors and fellow students would probably lynch me for saying this, but you're right. Psychology isn't a natural science per se and it's largely based on speculation. 

In all fairness, science doesn't always strive to find an ultimate truth. If science had the answers to everything, there wouldn't be such thing as research anymore.


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## Soubi7string (Nov 8, 2012)

groph said:


> Oh how dare she! Do you have any idea how sexist that is?
> 
> What about the man (how old was he?) having sex with an underage girl? If he was an adult then he committed statutory rape. If he was her age at the time then saying she "homewrecked" is absolving him of any and all wrongdoing. Don't pin this all on her. You're basically saying "this slutty girl had it coming." This is really a disgusting post.



I don't know what happened to the dude, so I can't say anything.
Nothing sexist about what I said, a person homewrecked and expected nothing to happen.Whatever happened to him I will never know because the dumbass girl that expected that there aren't any fucking consequences in life thinks its ok to do whatever and not reap a shit ton of SHIT.
Its sad she died yet she brought all her problems on herself and was wondering why everything sucked when it was her own fault.
And pin it all on her? did you even see where I asked where the parents were in the midst of this? Shit if theres anything wrong with a kid usually the parent hop on that shit asap. Yet lo and behold there must have been some pretty inattentive parents to their child.

She was at an age where she knew better and her parents should have been more involved with their child.


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## groph (Nov 17, 2012)

Soubi7string said:


> I don't know what happened to the dude, so I can't say anything.
> Nothing sexist about what I said, a person homewrecked and expected nothing to happen.Whatever happened to him I will never know because the dumbass girl that expected that there aren't any fucking consequences in life thinks its ok to do whatever and not reap a shit ton of SHIT.
> Its sad she died yet she brought all her problems on herself and was wondering why everything sucked when it was her own fault.
> And pin it all on her? did you even see where I asked where the parents were in the midst of this? Shit if theres anything wrong with a kid usually the parent hop on that shit asap. Yet lo and behold there must have been some pretty inattentive parents to their child.
> ...




All hindsight logic. 

What you said was sexist because in this situation (and in other situations of "homewrecking") one is placing the onus on the woman for any negative consequences regarding a sexual encounter. Don't forget there was a male involved here who also has the capacity for rationality just like she does. I'm not saying that Amanda had zero capacity to act in a negative way, I'm not saying women can't be sexist and I'm not saying women can't make bad choices. My criticism lies with the tendency to, when sex enters the picture, blame it all on her. The guy involved here also knew he had a girlfriend. It's not true that, when presented with a sexual opportunity, men suddenly lose all rationality and responsibility for their actions.

It's the concept of "homewrecking" that I'm attacking here, I maintain that it is extremely sexist.


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## Bevo (Nov 18, 2012)

As said above my 16 year old daughter has always been giving us her facebook passwords and was very open. The other day we were on the couch together and asked her what she was doing she said Facebook. So after about 30 min of her non stop on it I was curios what she was talking about so checked her account and found nothing just family stuff that was older. I just took her computer out of her hands and went through all her postings.....grounded is not even close to what should be done to her...we were shocked!!

We thought we were doing all the right thing but those damn kids are inventive and will work around you no matter what you do. I feel sorry for these parents because my daughter had some damn racy pictures on FB, no nudity but a thread away in bra and panties....geez!!!

What ever happened to the guy that was stalking Amanda? I have not heard anything..


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## Bevo (Nov 18, 2012)

bob123 said:


> Ill be blunt as I usually am. The people (parents) saying the parents are absolved of this are either blind to the world, or just plain dumb. If you're REALLY stating the parents share no responsibility in this you're dead wrong. This child was sexually predated on the internet. If the parents gave her internet access again it should have been closely monitored. This was also not a 1 day process. Developing suicidal tendencies takes weeks, months, or years of altered behavior. To say you wouldn't notice a childs behavior means you aren't keeping any tabs on them at all, or your not home ever. Either way, there's some sort of poor parenting going on. Its not about being up your childs ass 24/7, its about being safe, smart, and cognizant of your childs behavior. They were unsafe and functionally retarded giving her unescorted access to the internet, and failed to recognize warning signs as they presumably showed themselves.



I respectfully disagree, see my post above.
Also speaking with other parents my age we are all doing the same thing and are up there asses as much as possible.

I do agree that this behaviour was not overnight and we are super careful to watch her moods but anyone with a 16 year old know the hormones or in overdrive and you can't stop them. 

My boss also has a 16 year old and after I told him about my daughters hidden page he googled his daughter from work. He found her nude FB pictures and after even deeper looking found her on teenage porn sites posted by her friends and whoever had access. She denied it until he showed her then she was shocked, she wanted to be a lawyer and that is now in question.

The parents should be responsible but when we do everything how can we take all the blame?


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## flint757 (Nov 18, 2012)

Google search is literally the only way these days (hopefully they aren't using pseudo names). It is ridiculous how easy it is to make duplicate accounts on facebook. I don't know anyone who is a teenager who doesn't probably have one or two facebook pages (some more). All children are pretty racy nowadays it seems, it's ironic that the attempt is to make themselves feel/look older, but in reality it does neither. Adults don't have to act like adults to be adults, we just are. 

The parent aren't to blame in the sense that they necessarily neglected their child or didn't pay enough attention. The issue is we, as adults, assume we are smarter than they are so don't consider all the possibilities. When you consider how easy it was for your boss to find out about his daughter he had to be thinking to himself why he never checked sooner, it's so easy. Trusting your children is the last thing anyone should do. Your respect is second to peer pressure for most teenagers trying to fit in and find their place in the world.


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