# 8 sting attempt...



## sk3ks1s (Apr 14, 2010)

Hey guys. Long time creeper, first time poster. I've been wanting to do this for some time now. The ultimate goal is an 8 string. Since I have never really done any real wood working I thought I'd hone my skills on some unsuspecting pine and oak. Cut and shaped the body out of a 2"x20"x13" slab of pine. Kinda went for an Ibanez/Blackmachine thing. The neck was a pine/oak/pine combo with a Blackmachine headstock. Never got around to bolting the thing together, scoring the frets, radiusing the fretboard, routing electronics cavity, and a bunch of other stuff. But I figured I'd move on to some quasi-real wood.
Here's the practice one...







































And now the beginning workings of the 8...
Specs:
walnut body (in multiple pieces 'cause that's all that Kents had...)
7 piece maple/purpleheart neck
maple fretboard
27" scale/24 frets/16" radius
bolt on
pretty much a BlackMachine copy (I lack originality + I love the design)
Hipshot bridge
haven't decided on the pickups yet
Hipshot locking tuners
2 truss rod system
... and some other stuff I can't remember now.







































I have no idea what the hell I am doing, so comments, criticisms, critiques, insults, flames, and pepperoni sticks are welcome.
Thanks for lookin,
Jeff.


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## Winspear (Apr 14, 2010)

Looks great...



I see no pics


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 14, 2010)

Really? I'm new to this forum thing... I uploaded em via Photobucket. Am I missing something?


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## Bananalyze (Apr 14, 2010)

the practice one looks pretty darn good! looking forward to seeing more progress on this.


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## Hollowway (Apr 15, 2010)

Bananalyze said:


> the practice one looks pretty darn good! looking forward to seeing more progress on this.



Totally! Based on that I think this thing is gonna turn out sweet!


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## Winspear (Apr 15, 2010)

I see it now, and the specs which I didn't see before! Looks awesome, well done


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## 777 (Apr 15, 2010)

That body looks pretty thin, you sure pickups/electronics will actually fit in there?

Looks even thinner than a blackmachine ?


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 15, 2010)

There's gonna be two slabs of walnut glued together. Each one is 13/16" thick. So with sanding and whatnot, it should end up in the 1 1/2" range... hopeully.
Also, thanks for the comments.


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## ralphy1976 (Apr 15, 2010)

real great stuff here. the prototype was really good actually, so i am really looking forward to seeing the final product!!!


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## jymellis (Apr 15, 2010)

sk3ks1s said:


> There's gonna be two slabs of walnut glued together. Each one is 13/16" thick. So with sanding and whatnot, it should end up in the 1 1/2" range... hopeully.
> Also, thanks for the comments.


 
looks awesome! does your screen name have anything to do with the movie the dark crystal?


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## Jeepers (Apr 15, 2010)

looking good!
that purpleheart looks SO nice


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## ElRay (Apr 15, 2010)

What's your plans for the fretboard finish?

Ray


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 15, 2010)

jymellis said:


> looks awesome! does your screen name have anything to do with the movie the dark crystal?


 
Indirectly related... my favourite SYL song, which is where Devy got it from...

And the fretboard will be a plain old maple board with no inlays (cause I don't know how to do them and I don't really want any). I'm gonna try and find a different lookin piece of maple (with streaks or dark patches or something like that).

Just ordered the bridge, tuners, and some fret wire.
Hipshot 8 string bridge (the .125 thick one in black)
Hipshot locking tuners (black)
jumbo fret wire...


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## Nicklas (Apr 15, 2010)

Nice pieces of wood. I think you are doing great.


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## Corpsegrinder88 (Apr 15, 2010)

Hell yeah.. That is looking like a great start..


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 15, 2010)

Front and back slabs... can't decide which is which (contrary to what the crayon says). Input?














Walnut sandwich with extra mayo...





Wish I had wider clamps...









Cutting tomorrow... if its nice out.


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## avenger (Apr 15, 2010)

damn if it is anything like the first this could be fantastic.


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## lctdmf (Apr 16, 2010)

I hope you fix up your shape a little bit before cutting that walnut, your prototype looks a little...wonky. 

Good luck and have fun!


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## Bananalyze (Apr 16, 2010)

sk3ks1s said:


> Front and back slabs... can't decide which is which (contrary to what the crayon says). Input?



i vote the first one should be the front..... the grain looks darker and nicer in my opinion.


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 16, 2010)

lctdmf said:


> I hope you fix up your shape a little bit before cutting that walnut, your prototype looks a little...wonky.


 
Fair enough. The first one was kinda just free handed on a whim. What do you mean by wonky though? Sloppy cuts? Uneven design? I want this one to be as close to perfect as I can get...


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## lctdmf (Apr 16, 2010)

Uneven design.

Doesn't really look like an RG/Blackmachine shape much at all to be honest.

You could use this to get the correct shape for an RG, but you'd have to modify the heel area.


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 16, 2010)

Cool. Thanks for those blueprints. You're probably right about it not looking like either. I think I'm gonna put a bit more girth at the butt and take a bit away from the horns. Give it a more even look... I'm also thinking about doing a binding as well. Anyone know how this flows into the armpit bevel (don't know what it's actually called)? Would I put it on as normal then carve into it (essentially making it disappear at that point)?


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## Rokkaholic (Apr 16, 2010)

Awesome. I love the Blackmachine-inspired look.


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 18, 2010)

Cutting and shaping over the past couple of days. Did a rough cut and planned on fine sanding but didn't realize how hard walnut actually is. So I ran the router along the edge and made a few deep cuts... nothing a little sand paper and elbow grease couldn't fix.






























Starting to shape up...






Back cut-outs.










































Front bevel...










That's pretty much it until I get my hardware for measurements. Probably glue the neck laminates together tomorrow, then wait...


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## Echo (Apr 18, 2010)

Looking really good so far. I like that walnut alot.


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## Matt-Hatchett (Apr 18, 2010)

This is looking awesome so far. I'm jealous


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## Customisbetter (Apr 18, 2010)

I don't know why you went ape shit on the edges with a router, but the end result is looking pretty good.


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 18, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> I don't know why you went ape shit on the edges with a router


 
Thought it would make life easier 'cause I was finding it hard to sand the rough cut... ended up makin me work harder. Ah well, I'll know for next time. I need a belt sander.


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## Customisbetter (Apr 18, 2010)

if you want to use a router. make a template of the outline form MDF and get a bearing bit. then cutting hte body is EZ PZ


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 18, 2010)

Yeah, in hindsight that would have been the way to go. I need to practice with my router. I'm planning on doing binding... planning.


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 23, 2010)

Started work on the neck. None of the maple strips match... which is actually kinda cool. After hours of planing/sanding, I ended up with a nice straight neck. After planing, I wasn't left with a very thick blank which resulted in a more acute headstock angle... which should still be fine... right?


























































Also did some alterations to the body. Sharpened the horns a little. Kinda worried about the placement of the heel join... the bolts are gonna be a little off center. That gonna be a big problem? I plan to use 5 minimum.






Cutting out the headstock tomorrow and routing the truss rod channels.


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## Hollowway (Apr 23, 2010)

Man that's nice! This might be your first guitar build, but you have woodworking experience, yes?


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks... and none. Kinda just winging it and copying what I see in pictures on here. Unless you count cutting firewood.


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## Elysian (Apr 23, 2010)

sk3ks1s said:


> Yeah, in hindsight that would have been the way to go. I need to practice with my router. I'm planning on doing binding... planning.



You CANNOT freehand with a router, no matter how much practicing you do. Always make a template... Always. You also will find you can't really do body binding on a forearm carve with a normal router... When you see binding on forearm carve guitars, the channel is usually done with a CNC... I've tried to imagine ways of doing it, but I've not put my theories to the test yet.


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## Elysian (Apr 23, 2010)

Also, headstock angle is fine. I personally don't do more than 6 or 7 degrees, it doesn't take much, and when you do a lot of angle on the headstock, you'll find you'll always need to use a slippery nut material, because of the added pressure of the string over the nut...


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## Hollowway (Apr 23, 2010)

sk3ks1s said:


> Thanks... and none. Kinda just winging it and copying what I see in pictures on here. Unless you count cutting firewood.




Well then I think you found your calling. I gotta think there's some natural talent there.


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 23, 2010)

Elysian said:


> You CANNOT freehand with a router, no matter how much practicing you do. Always make a template... Always. You also will find you can't really do body binding on a forearm carve with a normal router... When you see binding on forearm carve guitars, the channel is usually done with a CNC... I've tried to imagine ways of doing it, but I've not put my theories to the test yet.


 
Yeah... I learned my lesson. I'm gonna use a template/fence for all of the good stuff. I have the bit/bearing for the binding. I think I'm going to taper the binding at the shoulder keeping it parallel with the top. Gonna practice on the pine one first to see how the taper looks and to get some practice.


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 23, 2010)

Hollowway said:


> Well then I think you found your calling. I gotta think there's some natural talent there.


 
I dunno about that... We'll find out when its time to make her sing...


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 24, 2010)

Anyone know where I can get a black (or blackish) nut blank about 2 1/2" wide? I got a bone one from StewMac that was 2 3/8" (roughly) but its the vintage tan color. Gonna use it to practice cutting it and whatnot, but I would ultimately like to have a color that will match the guitar. I guess while I'm on the topic... what material would be best (bone, synthetic, tusq, etc.)? Gonna be a fixed bridge, in line 8 headstock (don't know what else would determine the material used for the nut)...
Thanks.


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## Digideus (Apr 24, 2010)

Theres some buffalo bone nut blanks on Ebay, they are fairly black.


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## mellis (Apr 25, 2010)

Whoa dude that is so sick for your first build! I just moved from St. John's to Sydney Australia after being there 14 years. I always wondered if anyone else was into the whole ERG thing haha, as I have an 8 string myself.


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## Rusti (Apr 25, 2010)

wow good job man


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## Ruins (Apr 25, 2010)

beautiful build so far


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## alexmurphy (Apr 25, 2010)

cant wait to see whats next!


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 28, 2010)

Some updates:

Routed the truss rod channels and installed the rods.
Cut out the fret board and truss rod cover.
Trimmed the neck (kept the thickness to have a flat back to make it easier to work with).
Routed the binding channel.
Started installing some maple binding (not easy...).

Truss rod...




















Fret board and cutting the neck...


























Binding... 


























Hopefully finish my debacle of a binding job tomorrow... Possibly glue the fret board on, might wait on that one though.


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## Digideus (Apr 28, 2010)

Is that really necessary? What you using for strings? Boat anchor chains? 

Seriously, wont that make it really heavy AND give you problems keeping both rods at the same tension?


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## Customisbetter (Apr 28, 2010)

^Most 8 strings have dual truss rods. some argue it is unnecessary, but in the end it really doesn't matter.


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## darren (Apr 28, 2010)

You know all that stuff you skipped on your first attempt? That's all the stuff that turns it from a guitar-shaped sculpture into an actual playable instrument. 

You may want to try following through on some of those details before you try it out on your more expensive wood. 

You may have found it easier to slot the fretboard before it was tapered. It's now going to take a lot more care and patience to ensure the frets are perpendicular to the strings.


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## darren (Apr 28, 2010)

Customisbetter said:


> ^Most 8 strings have dual truss rods. some argue it is unnecessary, but in the end it really doesn't matter.



I wouldn't say "most". Of all the production 8s on the market, i believe the Agiles are the only ones with dual truss rods.


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## darren (Apr 28, 2010)

Elysian said:


> You CANNOT freehand with a router, no matter how much practicing you do. Always make a template... Always. You also will find you can't really do body binding on a forearm carve with a normal router... When you see binding on forearm carve guitars, the channel is usually done with a CNC... I've tried to imagine ways of doing it, but I've not put my theories to the test yet.



A lot of people use smaller hand-held laminate trimmers instead of full-size routers. They're a lot more maneuverable.


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 28, 2010)

Thanks for the tips guys. I do have a make shift jig rigged up to ensure that the frets are perpendicular. I did 2 truss rods cause what little info I could find out about 8's mentioned it... so I figured 2 would compensate for shotty work, haha. And it is all still a learning curve for me... So again, comments, criticisms, and everything are encouraged.  (and I am planning on investing in a Dremel and router base)


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## Digideus (Apr 29, 2010)

Check the blackmachine site. When Doug built his first 8 string he went with 2 truss rods, but he found the weight made it neck heavy, which is why a lot of them have a single rod and carbon fibre rod reinforcement.

Still, the work so far looks great!


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## death408 (May 5, 2010)

sk3ks1s said:


> Thanks for the tips guys. I do have a make shift jig rigged up to ensure that the frets are perpendicular. I did 2 truss rods cause what little info I could find out about 8's mentioned it... so I figured 2 would compensate for shotty work, haha. And it is all still a learning curve for me... So again, comments, criticisms, and everything are encouraged.  (and I am planning on investing in a Dremel and router base)


 
I plan on making a 8 string in the future but why not route channels for a piece of aluminum to reinforce neck probably just as strong without the carbon fiber cost.


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## sk3ks1s (May 5, 2010)

Some more updates:
Finished binding on the body. There are a couple chips which I'm gonna fill. Also, I could not, for the life of me bind the tips of the horns. Tried a bunch of different things... Nothing worked. So I tapered them kinda like what I did with the forearm bevel. Not 100% what I wanted, but it didn't turn out too bad. That's what I get for starting with maple binding instead of plastic... ah well. Cut the headstock out... Went pretty swimmingly.






























The headstock... which I'm gonna do with the same binding (taper the tips as well). 


























Called HipShot and got the measurements of the bridge so I can go ahead and start shaping the fretboard and neck.


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## Kapee (May 6, 2010)

The body looks bit strange, but overall this project looks really good.


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## paintkilz (May 6, 2010)

i think your gonna end up unhappy with the heel joint and the alignment to the rest of the body. i was using a body from a different guitar for 8, and the layout wasnt right and the neck would of sat funny...by looking at it, it looks like the neck is pushed up to the top area, and shoulder curve portion of the guitar...the symmetry is off.

unless you were going for this in your design, then i apologize.



serious question though.

love the build and headstock, but is the headstock going to live up to the tensions youre putting it under? Especially near the F#, B, E, and A tuners...o

and ive never seen truss rods where the actual adjustment nut was visible...usually they were further down the actual neck...not sure if this will affect your build or not..


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## Alberto7 (May 6, 2010)

Wow, I have to say I'm impressed for a first-timer! I still haven't tried doing this (one day I will), but my first time will probably be just a deformed piece of wood hahaha but I will give it a try some time  I definitely want to keep track of this project!


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## sk3ks1s (May 6, 2010)

paintkilz said:


> i think your gonna end up unhappy with the heel joint and the alignment to the rest of the body. i was using a body from a different guitar for 8, and the layout wasnt right and the neck would of sat funny...by looking at it, it looks like the neck is pushed up to the top area, and shoulder curve portion of the guitar...the symmetry is off.


The neck is actually going to be sitting off the heel a little bit... Kinda like a super access neck. I wanted something like that originally, but I think it might be off a little bit too much. I'm pretty sure if I position the bolts right it should still be structuraly sound. Might take a while to get used to... but I don't spend much time up there anyways (as my playing is sub-par to say the least).
As for the headstock... I've worked out the amount of tension the strings will be putting on the neck and it should be fine (I think).


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## sk3ks1s (May 12, 2010)

Updates:

Headstock binded
Fretboard scored (not sawed)
Fretboard glued
Neck carved (90%-ish)

Had to bind the headstock the same way I did the tips of the horns. Just tapered them into the walnut (anyone know how its done properly??? ). Couple of teeny tiny gaps which will be filled.
Fretboard was scored and glued with surprising accuracy. Still waiting on a fretsaw. Anyone know if any household blades have roughly the same kerf?
The neck is carved and sanded to about 150 grit... still a bit more to go. 20mm at the nut and kind of compounds to 25mm at the 19th. Tried a volute... started with the basic cut-out and kept reshaping and reshaping until there was nothing left... So yeah. As you can see, the neck sits well off the heel... I wanted that a little. Not this much. My question is will this affect the structural integrity? Still planning on doing 5/6 bolts. Anyways...


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## sk3ks1s (May 12, 2010)

Continued...


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## Empryrean (May 12, 2010)

this is coming along so well


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## Hollowway (May 12, 2010)

Dang IT, that thing is sweet! I can't believe you don't do this regularly. That headstock design is suuuper nice. And the access of the neck heel is great. I'm assuming you'll be able to bolt it up fine, so hopefully that's the case (as you said). Ballsy to shoot for the stars without having a lot of experience under your belt, but that's how I do things, so .


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## Bananalyze (May 13, 2010)

Dude..... that is P-H-A-T phat.

Obviously you aren't done with the back of the neck, but the front looks beautiful. Love that maple(?) fretboard!


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## Aurochs34 (May 13, 2010)

Looking great, man! I'm excited to see this baby finished!

And I've gotta say, for no woodworking experience whatsoever (really?)...well I think you should do some more, because this is an insanely good start!
My beginnings were as a kid...building skateboard ramps and whatnot...some people fell through them, others did not...you know.


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## Rokkaholic (May 13, 2010)

Really cool. Seems blackmachine inspired  What is the fingerboard made of? What a coincidence it had a nice pattern on it.


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## Matt-Hatchett (May 13, 2010)

This is looking so good man. The neck and headstock look killer.


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## sk3ks1s (May 13, 2010)

Thanks guys.



Rokkaholic said:


> Really cool. Seems blackmachine inspired  What is the fingerboard made of? What a coincidence it had a nice pattern on it.


 
Very BlackMachine inspired... The fretboard is just a piece of maple I scored at Kents for like $6. Probably plainsawn (can someone confirm?) so may not be as stable... But the piece was enough to do a matching truss rod cover AND elec. cavity cover.


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## yacker (May 13, 2010)

sk3ks1s said:


> Probably plainsawn (can someone confirm?)



Yea it's definitely plain sawn. You can tell by the figuring, it has what is called a cathedral grain pattern (what looks like towers etc.) vs. quarter sawn would have straight grains, more in tune with the grain pattern of the maple on the back of your neck.


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## Groove (May 13, 2010)

This looks absolutely amazing! Gives me hope my build in the summer won't go horribly wrong 

Originally i wasn't going to do the neck for mine but now i think i just might. You don't mind if i pm you when i'm in the process just for a bit of advice along the way? Tests or no tests, i'm so looking to start my 8 string now! haha


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## sk3ks1s (May 13, 2010)

Thanks. No, I don't mind. However, there are far more talanted people on this forum that could help you infinately more. But I'll try.


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## sk3ks1s (May 19, 2010)

Updates:
So it happened... shagged it up. While I was putting the finishing touches on the neck contours I managed to blow right thru to the truss rod. 
So I have to redo the neck... Ah well, can't complain I guess. Back at it. Screw ups were bound to come sooner or later.
I am however going to use this as an opportunity to try a couple new methods. One truss rod. Gonna attempt a scarf joint, mainly to reduce wood waste (like 60% of the neck wood is in shavings and dust on the deck). So, not gonna let it get me off course. On a more positive note... scored me some wood. No plans for it yet (although that wenge makes me wanna rethink my walnut choice). Anyways... less talk, more pictures.

The hole was much smaller when I first discovered it. I literally picked this out with my fingernail...















Counter-productivity... (disassembling these things is harder than assembling them)


















The remnants of a once promising neck... 






Wood... (insert phallic joke here)

Maple 1x6x72




Mahogany 1x5x48 (pretty bland but mahogany nonetheless)




Purpleheart 1x6x40




Paduk 1x6x37




Wenge 1x6x61









As always, I shall keep you posted...


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## Bananalyze (May 19, 2010)

Bummer about the neck. 

at least you get a second shot at it.... that wenge looks great, it'll look beautiful with the maple and purpleheart. good choice. 

EDIT: I didn't actually read the whole thing and assumed you were going to re-make the neck with all three woods. My bad


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## Alberto7 (May 20, 2010)

Aawwww man! That really sucks!  I even liked the grain on you neck... Oh well, I'm glad to see you're not giving up ... I kinda want to see that wenge somewhere


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## SD83 (May 20, 2010)

Sorry about the neck, it hurts just to look at the pics... but that new wood looks great, especially the Wenge & Padouk.


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## Groove (May 27, 2010)

Damn that's a shame! That is some nice wood you got there though! I just love the look of wenge now! Every piece looks so unique and interesting, and that's an especially good piece you got there. 

I can't wait to see how this looks when it's all done


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## GuitarJay82 (May 28, 2010)

Wow outstanding job on this entire project! Personally if it were me and I had all that time invested and then damaged the neck I would have freaked out on an epic scale and would likely be locked up right now LOL. I must say the new fretboard material looks delicious, I like it better. Can't wait to see it when your finished.


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## XeoFLCL (May 28, 2010)

I say Wenge fingerboard this time around. Awesome stuff so far


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## Stealthdjentstic (May 28, 2010)

Looks very good for a first build


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## sk3ks1s (May 28, 2010)

Thanks guys. Yeah... I'm not gonna lie, it was disappointing. But I just enjoy doing this so much and want to see it done for myself... so I gotta finish it. Just waiting to get out to my friends and rip those boards down so I can start again. Gonna do a scarf joint this time. This way I can get 6 laminates from a board instead of just 2. Gonna try and track down another nice piece of plain swan maple for the fretboard again. Hoever I do see a wenge fretboard on something I make in the future... I'll post some pics as soon as I make progress.


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## Rusti (May 29, 2010)

I also had to re-build my first neck 
Sure next one will be better 
i love that chocolate body


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## abadonae (Apr 25, 2011)

Hey man, keep this up, regardless of the neck issue this is looking like a solid and damn impressive build, im hoping to start an 8 string build at some point in the not so distant future and your build is spurring me on.

Cant wait to see the finished product dude, wenge FTW


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## sk3ks1s (Apr 25, 2011)

Hooray! One of my threads is finally a victim of necro-bumping!
This thing has long gone. I think the body got turned to firewood.
This is what spawned from this build...
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...zations/122391-purple-apparatus-8-string.html


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