# Uncreative123's Body Transformation Thread



## Uncreative123 (Apr 20, 2012)

I said I would post pics, so here they are. This is my 11-week transformation. This was all done for Bodybuilding.com's $100k Body Transformation contest. I have one week left, but I'm currently on the road which makes everything harder, so I'm not sure if it'll get much better than this. I knew this contest was coming, so I really let myself go ...much worse than I thought in order to make the most drastic change possible. I followed the Lean Gains method (Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health) for basically all of this. Very low carbs for the first 8 weeks. Usually did about less than 50g carbs for about 2-3 days straight, then on the heavier carb days, I'd usually still stay under 2-300. 
This method works. And it works well. I'm lifting the same amount now that I was before I started- but I'm 26 lbs less and 12% bodyfat less. This transformation has been ALL about diet. My lifting routine didn't change at all. Did some moderate cardio in the beginning, but that was about it. I currently don't do any. 

ANYBODY can do this. It's so easy it's stupid. It just requires 100% commitment. I'm currently training with a friend on this tour which is keeping me in check this last week and all tour, since I usually eat like total shit. I'll go into the details a little more in a follow-up post. I'm kinda doing this really fast before we crash for the night.

I only have the photos that I quickly uploaded to photobucket before I left home. So I really only have week 1 and week 11- none of the inbetween. 

I feel really really small at my current weight and size. I haven't been this small in a long time. This is maybe the best shape I've been in, or second best. Definitely going to be putting some size back on after this.

Starting stats:
6'2" 226 lbs, 22.5% body fat

Current stats:
6'2" 200 lbs, 10.5-11% bodyfat (11.5ish pictured)


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## TRENCHLORD (Apr 20, 2012)

Great progress man.
You definetly know what you're doing.
Your arms about 18.5-19"?


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## flint757 (Apr 20, 2012)

Your before photos are where I am physically so i might give this a shot. It'd be cool to have more details.

Great job though 

Discipline has always been my weakest point when it comes to routine workout and eating right (can't stick to schedules)


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## Winspear (Apr 20, 2012)

Absolutely brilliant job! Very impressive for 11 weeks. I hope you don't mind me posting here for advice but you seem to know what you're doing!

I'm currently cutting, too, after really having let myself go on a heavy bulk (worked, though! Gained a lot of strength and size so hopefully plenty of new muscle is hiding haha)











Here's me 3 weeks ago at the beginning of my cut. 
I've gone from 150lbs in October 2010 to 182lbs in this photo. I'm just under 5'10"

I've lost 5 or 6 lbs so far in the 3 weeks. 
I might have to try this leangains thing, so far I've just reduced my calories down by cutting a* lot* of carbs. 

Bulk: Around 3900 calories a day, just over 250g of protein, 430g carbs, 120g fat as a guideline.

Cut: About 2600 calories, 220g protein, 190g carbs, 100g fat. 

My routine hasn't changed either, just straight heavy lifting on a 3 day split.

The calorie difference is huge and it seems odd to me, but both figures seem to be about good for me..I'd gain just under a pound a week on that 3.9k. And I'm losing 2lb a week on the 2.6k.

Any advice? I'm looking to get to the exact same bodyfat as you by 6 weeks from now. Short time I know but I don't think I was as high to start off with.

I'm also interested on how you obtained that tan in 11 weeks haha!


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## Metalus (Apr 20, 2012)

So how does this Lean Gain thing work exactly?


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## Winspear (Apr 20, 2012)

The Leangains Guide | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health
http://www.leangains.com/2008/06/sure-fire-fat-loss.html


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## Greatoliver (Apr 20, 2012)

Hold on, you're telling me all those transformation videos on youtube aren't fake? 

Huge respect tho


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## Bevo (Apr 20, 2012)

Looking good!!
Huge change to your body..well done!

You look exactly as I thought you would!


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## Marv Attaxx (Apr 20, 2012)

"$100k Body Transformation contest"
Wait, what??

That would have been the motivation I needed to stop bulking up and finally start cutting 

Good work dude


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## TheShreddinHand (Apr 20, 2012)

Congrats man, keep at it!

Eric


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## SirMyghin (Apr 20, 2012)

Looking excellent dude, good luck with the contest.


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## Murmel (Apr 20, 2012)

Great work dude. Everything I've seen from lean gains has been amazing.
Makes me feel like an ass because I haven't been able to work out this entire week, but tomorrow I'm gonna kill it.


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## UnderTheSign (Apr 20, 2012)

Solid progress. Shows what a tan (?) and a lower fat % can do to how you look.


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## cwhitey2 (Apr 20, 2012)

Shit son. Good job.


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## Infamous Impact (Apr 20, 2012)

Insane transformation. Hope you win, you deserve it with all that hard work.


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## JStraitiff (Apr 20, 2012)

I blame the tan


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## TRENCHLORD (Apr 20, 2012)

Infamous Impact said:


> Insane transformation. Hope you win, you deserve it with all that hard work.


 
Some one should send word to Carvin (joking of course) that a huge order is on the way.


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## Uncreative123 (Apr 20, 2012)

I'll try to cover a little more in this post. Again, the one thing I can't stress enough is how diet is everything. I've often heard diet is 50%, but I think it's more like 99%. Everybody who's trying to lose weight reading this and understands it is already lifting and probably doing so at a moderate level, so I won't go into details about lifting routines. That really wasn't what helped my transformation, but it definitely had to be solid. It was something I already did so I don't really count it as part of the transformation. The one thing I changed was some light/moderate cardio, usually in the morning while fasted. 

The most important thing was definitely the lean gains method of fasting for 16 hours and eating for 8 hours. I adhered to that pretty strictly. I'm never hungry in the mornings so it worked really well for me. By fasting it increases your insulin sensitivity and everything else. I won't bore you with all the details, you can read about them for yourself on the leangains site. It's really what helped me RETAIN muscle while dropping fat. As long as you make sure you pulse through the day with BCAA's you should be all set. That was the most important part for muscle retention. 

Lifting with a purpose is really important too. Prior to this contest I really felt like I was just going through the motions and my weightlifting didn't have much purpose. This contest was the thing that got me motivated. I respond very well to competition. I'll probably always have to do competitions like these to keep motivated from here on out. But whatever it takes. One of the things that helped get me through it was writing down all the days on the calender and being aware that there was a deadline that had to be met. I wrote out every day on the calender and marked off each day as it went by. I think that was incredibly helpful mentally. Dieting is all about will power and mental strength. Fasting/low-carbing for ONE day seems a lot easier than trying to think of it in terms of weeks. Just telling myself to get through THIS day and then I can eat more tomorrow helped me get through the whole thing. Just one day at a time. I kept track of my progress...almost daily, but did pictures only once a week, on Mondays. I had my routine, go to the gas station, get a paper, do pics. etc. Routine is always good for this stuff.

I'll touch on some other things of importance while responding to this next post.....




EtherealEntity said:


> Absolutely brilliant job! Very impressive for 11 weeks. I hope you don't mind me posting here for advice but you seem to know what you're doing!
> 
> I'm currently cutting, too, after really having let myself go on a heavy bulk (worked, though! Gained a lot of strength and size so hopefully plenty of new muscle is hiding haha)
> 
> ...



First of all, your carbs need to be reduced SEVERELY. On all days. I would do something like less than 50g carbs for 2-3 days straight, then one day of moderate carbs, under 200g. Every carb g counts and they will add up fast. On days I thought I was around 50 I was actually closer to 100. 50g is key. And you will be hungry. You just have to get past it. Calories don't necessary need to be restricted, it's all about carbs when it comes to losing fat. 

Cheat meals are very important. This is something that I should have said in the first post so I will make it bigger here. While on this diet I ate pizza EVERY week. And I don't mean like a slice or two, I mean an entire fucking pizza from papa johns, all by myself, in one sitting. I ate arby's, quiznos, mcdonalds a couple times, lots of other pizza places, etc. No lie. The cheat meal/day is A MUST. I started to stall out around week 3 and couldn't figure out why. I was working so hard and dieting and not eating very much and I totally stalled out. I read more on the cheat meal I think from lean gains...decided to eat an entire pizza, and by the next day I had lost two lbs, bodyfat went down, and I looked leaner. It's important because it basically tricks your body and gets it to process food faster (i.e. metabolism). So, SO important. Now, I wouldn't go completely overboard and have a whole cheat day and just eat like shit. I would make it one meal, and make it moderately shitty. I still didn't eat fries or drink pop, but I had lots of burgers, pizza, ice cream, etc. 

I definitely slowed up on that the last three weeks. I've been consuming more carbs, but I'm taking a shitload of supplements so it works out for me.
I'll try to cover a little more next time as well. 

Feel free to post any other questions in this thread, everyone.






TRENCHLORD said:


> Some one should send word to Carvin (joking of course) that a huge order is on the way.



LoL, nah, it won't be Carvin. It'll be something else. Probably gonna have to be 7 strings for the time being...


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## SpaceDock (Apr 20, 2012)

Nice work man, that is a super impressive transformation.

Can I ask you about the diet? I have the opposite problem, I am real lean and can't seem to gain weight too well. Does this work for guys wanting to bulk up?


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## ghostred7 (Apr 21, 2012)

Great job!!!

When we gonna see you do a remake of this shot?!


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## Lon (Apr 21, 2012)

thanks for the motivation, i am cutting at the moment with the simple but effective "just eat less and really healthy" dietary plan (of course its calculated) but i will try leangains for the next 6 weeks (i am currently at probably 11-12% and want those abs to show, so 8% is the goal).

BCAA's were yes and i will honor your cheatmeal recommendation and order a fucking pizza every sunday


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## Winspear (Apr 21, 2012)

Nice advice, thanks! I did think about trying super low carbs, but isn't it hard as hell to reach the kind of calories I'm on with just protein and fat? I think I'd find myself drinking insane amounts of shakes every day.


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## Winspear (Apr 21, 2012)

Also would you be able to post some pics of different stages?


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## Tiger (Apr 21, 2012)

Awesome job man. I am a lean gains advocate as well, Ive been on it for about 2 years now. I am hovering at a 7% body fat at the moment, but Im about to intentionally gain some fat for my training goals. I recommend leangains for anybody, obviously you got stellar results.


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## Uncreative123 (Apr 22, 2012)

SpaceDock said:


> Nice work man, that is a super impressive transformation.
> 
> Can I ask you about the diet? I have the opposite problem, I am real lean and can't seem to gain weight too well. Does this work for guys wanting to bulk up?


 

Works well for gaining or losing. You don't even necessarily have to work out to do it either. After posting this stuff on my facebook I have a bunch of people telling me now that they're going to do it, but they don't work out. Just drum and sports I guess. 
If you're trying to gain, I would consume more protein, and probably more calories. I was at a caloric deficit on ALL days. 




EtherealEntity said:


> Nice advice, thanks! I did think about trying super low carbs, but isn't it hard as hell to reach the kind of calories I'm on with just protein and fat? I think I'd find myself drinking insane amounts of shakes every day.



Calories are irrelevant. I didn't count calories at all. I always have a rough idea of what I'm consuming, so I know I was at a deficit on nearly all days. Trying to do 3600 cal a day with ONLY clean food is never going to happen with me. I can't eat that way. I think the calorie stuff is overblown too. I believe there is something on the lean gains site that discusses this. Don't try to reach calories, try to reach macros: 200g protein, 50g/carbs, whatever for fat, usually around the same amount as carbs. I can't stress enough how utterly useless calorie counting is. Macros are more important and much easier to deal with.




EtherealEntity said:


> Also would you be able to post some pics of different stages?



I don't have any on my lap top here, but I will link you to my bodyspace profile and it has everything. 

uncreative123's BodySpace - Bodybuilding.com


Also I took some new pics last night that are on my phone that I might try to get up. I have to do the final pics tomorrow. So today I'm completely dehydrating myself. No water and sweating my balls of in this shitty New Jersey club.


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## MFB (Apr 22, 2012)

So obviously Leanigans worked for you, what was your workout routine like? You said you just started adding in cardio, and given your current definition I'd imagine squats/deadlifts are 100% in there, with the rest being bicep/tricep stuff, traps, delts, and ab work?


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## soliloquy (Apr 22, 2012)

that really is some amazing work man! 
however, my concern is to maintain that look/body over the course of say, next few years. 
how would you be maintaining that?


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## Lirtle (Apr 22, 2012)

Do you mind me asking what your average calorie deficit was. I just started a similar routine and I'm pretty much the same weight and height.


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## Necris (Apr 23, 2012)

I'll have to try this, I work out regularly but getting rid of body fat has always been difficult for me, I wouldn't mind seeing the results of the effort I put in more defined.


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## Winspear (Apr 23, 2012)

Uncreative123 said:


> Calories are irrelevant. I didn't count calories at all. I always have a rough idea of what I'm consuming, so I know I was at a deficit on nearly all days. Trying to do 3600 cal a day with ONLY clean food is never going to happen with me. I can't eat that way. I think the calorie stuff is overblown too. I believe there is something on the lean gains site that discusses this. Don't try to reach calories, try to reach macros: 200g protein, 50g/carbs, whatever for fat, usually around the same amount as carbs. I can't stress enough how utterly useless calorie counting is. Macros are more important and much easier to deal with.



See, I was under the impression macros fitted in with calories very well. E.g the whole P/C/F thing put into my recommend calories for example, seemed to correspond very well with the g/lb method.

For example bulking; 3000 calories
200g protein
350g carbs
90g fat

Those fit the g/lb recommendations and the calories come out about right too. 

I can't imagine doing what you've said - i.e. meeting macros
200g protein
90g fat
*50g carbs*

That's only 1800 calories! Surely that would be pretty damaging to my muscle? I'd imagine I'd be losing about 5lb a week!

Thanks for the advice though! I'm going to see what I can work out with some more info and whatever reply you might give


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## prashanthan (Apr 24, 2012)

Damn, nice progress! I've been doing Lean Gains half-arsedly for a while now, after doing it properly for a month and dropping a lot of fat, but this is really good progress. When you ramp up the amount of carbs you eat from 50g to ~200g, is that on training days or do you just do that every 2 or 3 days? A cheat meal a day is quite interesting, I might look into that more...


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## prashanthan (Apr 24, 2012)

Also, what would you say you found to be more important in determining success, the intermittent fasting aspect of LG or the macronutrient partitioning than Martin describes? Cheers.


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## Winspear (Apr 24, 2012)

prashanthan said:


> Also, what would you say you found to be more important in determining success, the intermittent fasting aspect of LG or the macronutrient partitioning than Martin describes? Cheers.



Good question  I'm curious on this as I doubt I could stick to the timing too well. One things for sure I definitely can't do 3 big meals a day - barely have time for 1!


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## Sebastian (Apr 24, 2012)

Man, those are some serious results.... 

I need to get back into shape


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## Uncreative123 (Apr 24, 2012)

MFB said:


> So obviously Leanigans worked for you, what was your workout routine like? You said you just started adding in cardio, and given your current definition I'd imagine squats/deadlifts are 100% in there, with the rest being bicep/tricep stuff, traps, delts, and ab work?



7 day split- shoulders, hams, bis&tris,light legs, chest, back, legs. Icant workout on Saturdays so i usually hax fhat as an off day. Only did deadlifts maybe twice. I usually do stiff legged deadlifts. I dont do squats i do box squats. Ab work was done here and there whenever i could fit it in.


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## Uncreative123 (Apr 24, 2012)

soliloquy said:


> that really is some amazing work man!
> however, my concern is to maintain that look/body over the course of say, next few years.
> how would you be maintaining that?



I won't. I eat like shit. Its not like itd be too hard to maintain because its not a crazy low bf% or anything. I'm just a realist. I'm on tour right now and it's impossible to eat clean.


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## Uncreative123 (Apr 24, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> See, I was under the impression macros fitted in with calories very well. E.g the whole P/C/F thing put into my recommend calories for example, seemed to correspond very well with the g/lb method.
> 
> For example bulking; 3000 calories
> 200g protein
> ...



I don't know how you think you know how many calories i was consuming based on macros. If you can't get past this calorie hangup then i can't help you. If you think 1800 calories for someone in your position is too much then i can tell you now you're not going to achieve your goals. I already said in one of the other posts how i prevented muscle loss. If you don't think it'll work then don't do it. I dont care. But i will tell you that i consumed lessthan 1800 multiple days in a row and im alot bigger than you.


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## Uncreative123 (Apr 24, 2012)

prashanthan said:


> Also, what would you say you found to be more important in determining success, the intermittent fasting aspect of LG or the macronutrient partitioning than Martin describes? Cheers.



Both. If i had to pick one over the other id say lowering carbs makes a bigger difference. But that shouldn't be a reason to do one over the other.


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## prashanthan (Apr 25, 2012)

Fair play, just curious as to what you thought was all! I pretty much just eat whatever with the 8/16 timing intervals; it's allowed me to put on a few kilos of muscle and gain strength without gaining fat, but this has given me the motivation to tighten up my diet so that I can gain strength and shed the fat simultaneously, it's definitely possible. Thanks!


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## Winspear (Apr 25, 2012)

Well you can work out calories based on macros..."_try to reach macros: 200g protein, 50g/carbs, whatever for fat_" - that's still a set amount of cals once the fat is done..

" i consumed lessthan 1800 multiple days in a row and im alot bigger than you"
Well that's all I needed to hear  Thanks. It just goes against pretty much everything I've ever heard i.e. dropping more than a few hundred below maintenance = too fast weight loss and lots of muscle loss. I always presumed you'd have to massively up the protein+fat to meet 'normal' cutting cals on these low carb diets. I'll probably try it if my current results slow down. 
I'm currently at 175 so things are going ok
Thanks again and good luck


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## Tiger (Apr 25, 2012)

I would like to chime in that there are a LOT of misconceptions or bro science or whatever you want to call it about caloric intake, muscle loss/gain, the threat of cardiovascular exercise, and its been my experience (with my body and others) that strength/muscle gains are easily doable on a supposed caloric deficit. Beware of the established theory that you need to eat some astronomical amount of calories, gain weight (fat and a little muscle) and then you have to go through a cutting phase.

I understand this is the go to method on body building forums, but I encourage digging deeper.


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## Winspear (Apr 25, 2012)

^ Point taken - I've heard this a few times now!

Strength gains and muscle gains - ok. But what about general weight? I thought that was impossible.
Say I were at 10% and wanted to stay there while gaining muscle, a defecit wouldn't work, right? I'd be best just bulking very slowly? That's my plan after this cut.


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## Harry (Apr 25, 2012)

EtherealEntity said:


> ^ Point taken - I've heard this a few times now!
> 
> Strength gains and muscle gains - ok. But what about general weight? I thought that was impossible.
> Say I were at 10% and wanted to stay there while gaining muscle, a defecit wouldn't work, right? I'd be best just bulking very slowly? That's my plan after this cut.



I responded to you in this thread about the misconception of needing to be in a constant surplus to gain muscle :

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/li...-here-bench-lift-weights-etc.html#post2928065


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## Metal_Webb (Apr 25, 2012)

My body's exactly the same shape as the OP's before one, funny like that sometimes 

Diet is indeed the major part of it. About 3 weeks ago I cut out all soft drinks, fried foods, and only have carbs at breakfast with a protein shake. Currently loosing about 1kg (2.2 lb) a week and this is with absolutely no extra physical activity at all (read, none in general ) Also cut back the grog to 1 beer a day tops, barring parties etc etc.

Due to all the lifting I had to do at work over summer, I put on quite a bit of upper body muscle. So far I haven't seen any muscle atrophy there, so cutting out all the extra calories must be doing me some good.

Morale of the story: Calorie control. It's hard at first changing your diet and resisting all the shitty foods, but it is worth it and does get easier after the second week. 

@Uncreative: Bloody good work there mate! Be proud of that shit 

(sorry about the thread bombing, just felt I had to share my tale of the importance of diet)


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## troyguitar (Apr 25, 2012)

For a caloric reference: I started out at 5'10 175 earlier this year and have been eating 1200-1300 calories a day without losing any strength at all (not that I had much in the first place ), just 20 lbs of fat so far. At 1800 you could easily be gaining plenty of muscle.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Apr 25, 2012)

This is INSANE, top-class work man! That kind of physique can only be gained with determination, so you must have had shitloads! 

I'm on a three-month cut and a month in I've had very little progress, I'm definitely gonna start this as soon as possible, hopefully Friday. If you shed 12.5% body fat in eleven weeks I sure as hell should be able to lose 3-5% in eight


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## Harry (Apr 25, 2012)

That's awesome stuff, Uncreative, fantastic dedication.
What I love about Lean Gains is that it takes the mental drain aspect out of it.
So many guys I know are complaining about having to eat really small meals, complaining about lost strength and muscle and say they feel mentally drained after a long period of cutting.
Meanwhile I get to eat like a king, feeling satisfied physically and mentally after eat meal, while simultaneously losing fat, gaining strength and gaining muscle.
It has a long term mental sustainability that 'CUT AND BULK BRO, CUT AND BULK!" cycles just don't have.
I feel that cut and bulk cycles are better suited to those on 'special' supplements, because after all, a lot of the broscience we hear today came from massive guys in the 70s like Arnold, Zane, Nubret etc that NEEDED to do cut and bulk cycles, NEEDED to eat 6 meals a day just to hit their macros/caloric needs and they weren't 6 small meals like the natural lifter broscientists of today eat.

A natural lifter without a massive amount of mass can do fine on 3 big meals a day (I myself like to go for 2 or 3 meals day in the 8 hour feeding window). There's no need to starve yourself with small meals anymore and making it mentally draining.


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## Uncreative123 (Apr 26, 2012)

Totally off topic, I met this guy yesterday in Detroit and talked to him for awhile. Most of you have probably seen this video- in fact, that's how I recognized him. He's really nice. Said he doesn't do steroids:


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## UnderTheSign (Apr 26, 2012)

I think I've spoken to him online a few years ago. Seemed like a real cool guy. Love it how everyone on the internet bashes him for whatever reason they can think of.


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## Captain Shoggoth (Apr 26, 2012)

I love that guy's vids, he's a wicked player and it's amusing to see people yell accusations at him just because they feel intimidated


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## texshred777 (May 26, 2012)

Uncreative123 said:


> I don't know how you think you know how many calories i was consuming based on macros.


 
200 grams of protein. 1 gram of protein = 4calories. 800 cal
50 grams of carbs. 1 gram of carbs = 4 calories. 200 cal
90 grams of fat. 1 gram of fat = 9 calories. 810 cal

1810 calories.

edit: Of course that's calculated on actually hitting those particular macro counts. If the goal is more similar to NO MORE than 50 g of carbs and AT LEAST 200 grams of protein then no the calculated calorie totals won't be accurate.


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## texshred777 (May 26, 2012)

Great job man. I love seeing progress threads.


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## TRENCHLORD (May 26, 2012)

Uncreative123 said:


> Totally off topic, I met this guy yesterday in Detroit and talked to him for awhile. Most of you have probably seen this video- in fact, that's how I recognized him. He's really nice. Said he doesn't do steroids:


 
Well, doesn't do isn't exactly the same as never done, but he might well have meant never done.
I'd respect him just as much either way though, as he's obviously trained insanely hard to get that physique, and the guitar skill.
Going on roids is really just an additional level of commitment, and being a libertarian type person I believe it should be legal to injest whatever one wishes.
I've wanted to take roids since I was in high-school, but have never moved it high enough on my priority list to get it accomplished.
Back when I had the balls to order (when I was childless and lived alone) I just never had the extra loot.
In the last few years I've had more expendable income, but with the family depending on me I'm just too gun-shy to order them by mail.
Going on 38 I could possibly get some anti-aging therapy, but from what I've read (which isn't much actually) it's a very overpriced and hassled way to go about it.
All those T-Nation links have got me reading and researching several various lifting related topics though, so at least I'm learning.


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## Uncreative123 (May 27, 2012)

TRENCHLORD said:


> Well, doesn't do isn't exactly the same as never done, but he might well have meant never done.
> I'd respect him just as much either way though, as he's obviously trained insanely hard to get that physique, and the guitar skill.
> Going on roids is really just an additional level of commitment, and being a libertarian type person I believe it should be legal to injest whatever one wishes.
> I've wanted to take roids since I was in high-school, but have never moved it high enough on my priority list to get it accomplished.
> ...



He said never done. I couldn't have cared less. The misinformation and downright lies about anabolic steroids in this country are completely out of control. I guess some would compare it to the 'marijuana debate' x10 but I don't like to do that because they're illegal for two totally different reasons. At your age you probably wouldn't have any trouble getting a script for TRT. I completely understand why people would rather go the other route though, because it would be a pain in the ass and cost more. 
I think it's comical that they market it as 'anti-aging' now and both men and women use it 'to feel and look younger' yet if a baseball player does it he's worse than Hitler and condemned to suck Satan's cock in hell for all of eternity. (Honestly I think baseball is boring as shit and AS should be mandatory )
And it's funny that we always hear about baseball players, but never about football players, because I'm guessing somewhere around 90% of them use AS. They'd have to shut down the whole league. 


I can't go one day without hearing an ad on the radio for 'ageless male' or some other ridiculous supp. talking about raising Test. And apparently nobody realizes that's what AS is. It's unreal. I honestly can't see the difference between taking a supplement that raises free test levels vs. taking extra test. People take creatine supplements, creatine is produced in the body natural. Well so is testosterone. I'm far more concerned about a lot of the supplements carried at places like nutri-shop that hide who knows what in their 'proprietary-blend'. Plus they legally sell pro-hormones which are FAR more dangerous than AS- and to top it off they sell them to dumbshit kids who have no idea what they're doing. Then they sell them bogus OTC PCT drugs which do nothing and end up fucking up their endocrine system. Half the women in this country are on birth control which is a steroid (progesterone; though not anabolic). There's never been long-term studies done on them and there have been plenty of people using them 20+ years with no issues, yet all we hear is lie after lie about how they'll kill you, make you go bald, give you acne, beat your girlfriend, and then hang yourself. How can anybody take stuff like this seriously?


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## TRENCHLORD (May 27, 2012)

GNC was even selling this stuff back in the late 80s.
I remember looking at it behind their glass case (as if to make it seem special) as a freshman wanting to get stronger for football.
Anyways, I decided against it and just went with the protien.
I remember thinking that it might cause roots to grow out of my head or something.
Smilax & Testosterone | LIVESTRONG.COM


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## ZEBOV (May 27, 2012)

Goddamn dude! I gotta try this out!
Say.... are you planning on storming into the Carvin factory and burning their not-highly-enough-figured woods and generally kicking ass? Go take a pic of my DC800! They'll all be too scared to try to stop you.


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## engage757 (May 30, 2012)

so did you get this book? This is something I have heard about and really interested in.... So, 16 hour fast with nothing but water, then 8 hours you can eat, under 50g carbs, around 200 g protein? Is that what I read that you did? Every day?


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## Uncreative123 (May 31, 2012)

ZEBOV said:


> Goddamn dude! I gotta try this out!
> Say.... are you planning on storming into the Carvin factory and burning their not-highly-enough-figured woods and generally kicking ass? Go take a pic of my DC800! They'll all be too scared to try to stop you.




haha, what??




engage757 said:


> so did you get this book? This is something I have heard about and really interested in.... So, 16 hour fast with nothing but water, then 8 hours you can eat, under 50g carbs, around 200 g protein? Is that what I read that you did? Every day?




Book? huh? No. The info is all free online. During the 16 hour fast you can have BCAA's, that's about it. You SHOULD have BCAA's during the fast. It usually helps curb any hunger cravings as well as prevent muscle wasting. 
50g carbs/day should be cycled. I would say you can get away with doing it for the first 10 days, but then you are going to need a 're-feed' day otherwise your body starts to go into starvation mode and your progress will halt. After the first 10 or so days, I would do the 50g/carbs for about 3 days straight, and then have a carb day of around 200-300g/carbs and continue that for the duration.


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## Tiger (May 31, 2012)

^ So looking forward to carb day tomorrow, refeed right before a 20 miler on Saturday is perfect.


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## nangillala (Jun 1, 2012)

Very impressive progress. Keep us updated and keep up the good work!


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