# Emperor a Nazi band?



## filipe200x

Hey there, can anyone tell me if the band Emperor has nazi-oriented ideologies? I can't recall correctly, but i think i read somewhere that they had these loser's ideologies just like that Burzum guy... 

Anyway, i ask this cause i saw a picture of their guitarist in the IBI website, and if he is that would be kinda politically incorrect from IBI's marketing advisors...Plus he looks turkish, so it would be kinda stupid, having those ideas... 

So does the info proceeds?


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## Waelstrum

Well, wikipedia doesn't directly mention any Nazi stuff, but their first drummer killed a guy and was a friend of Varg Vikernes who is definitely a Nazi. Ihsan (who I think is the guy you're describing) claimed to be a Satanist in the early 90's (he's since recanted), and that doesn't fit with Nazism. Overall, they're not Nazis, and while some members have been imprisoned for violent acts, Ihsan seems okay in terms of publicity.


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## Don Vito

I consider Ihsahn to be the main force behind that band.

He doesn't seem like someone that would be into that stuff.


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## Mr. Big Noodles

Ihsahn's not stupid enough to be a part of that crap.


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## Varcolac

SchecterWhore said:


> Ihsahn's not stupid enough to be a part of that crap.



Indeed. His lyrics tend to be focused around either basic dark fantasy stuff (I Am The Black Wizards, Thus Spake The Nightspirit), or a kind of evolving nihilist personal philosophy (With Strength I Burn, most of his solo stuff). It's Dungeons and Dragons and Nietzsche, basically. From the lyrics I know, there's not a word of that creepy NSBM horror to be found.

Satanism, yeah, sure, but that's mainly more of a self-empowerment religion and as far as I know has nothing to do with that kind of ultranationalist idiocy.


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## Scar Symmetry

SchecterWhore said:


> Ihsahn's too damn smart to be a part of that crap.



Fixed


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## Ryan-ZenGtr-

If they don't mention Blavatsky, Theosophy and an alternate version of history with Arian origins on *Mars they don't count as _real_Nazi!!!



*some reference "face" on Mars as "evidence"...

Those crazy guys, eh? 



> "Satanism, yeah, sure, but that's mainly more of a self-empowerment religion and as far as I know has nothing to do with that kind of ultranationalist idiocy."



It's a bit more complicated and darker than that. Do some research and be prepared to become really confused.  

It always makes me wonder how people (and cultists especially) can take themselves so seriously.

Anyway, funny post for funny thread!


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## Vinchester

Ihsahn strikes me as a rather sober musician. He may have believed in stupid things in the past but he sure seems like he has already grown out of it. Not that I know anything though.


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## Konfyouzd

Who cares?


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## Hemi-Powered Drone

Vinchester said:


> Ihsahn strikes me as a rather sober musician. He may have believed in stupid things in the past but he sure seems like he has already grown out of it. Not that I know anything though.



I've noticed that as well. He seems like a guy that realizes he was an idiot in his younger years and has grown up.


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## USMarine75

Konfyouzd said:


> Who cares?



Apparently the OP


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## renzoip

I have not really looked into Emperor's lyrics to know what they believe, but I can tell you Ihshan is not a nazi. My friends and I met him last year at Progpower USA and he was the coolest guy ever (I am from Peru and she is from Honduras). Also, while we were talking, the topic of Ander Breivik and the bombing in Norway came up; he highly condemned him and his actions. 

So no, I don't think he is a Facist/Nationalist/Nazi.


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## wlfers

Maybe for the people who are still surprised and offended that there exists controversy in metal, there should be a band background check for them to see that nobody in the band disagrees with or has differing ideologies from them.



renzoip said:


> Also, while we were talking, the topic of Ander Breivik and the bombing in Norway came up; he highly condemned him and his actions.



Varg condemned the killing also?


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## Adam Of Angels

I remember having read an interview from Ihsahn where he mentioned that, while his band mates had been very active in the whole black metal scene, he was just in it for the music. He's a very smart guy, and seems to be into mysticism/spirituality, but not Nazism.


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## Necris

None of the members of Emperor were or are neo-nazis.

Samoth (the rhythm guitarist) was jailed for arson after participating in church burnings with Varg Vikernes of Burzum. 
Faust was arrested for church burning, burglary and murder after stabbing a homosexual man to death in 1992, his reason for the murder having nothing to do with the mans sexual orientation.
Tchort was arrested for theft, assault with a knife and desecration and jailed for 2 years.

Ihsahn was the only member of the lineup for In The Nightside Eclipse that hasn't been imprisoned.

You may be thinking of members of another Norwegian band.


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## renzoip

athawulf said:


> Maybe for the people who are still surprised and offended that there exists controversy in metal, there should be a band background check for them to see that nobody in the band disagrees with or has differing ideologies from them.
> 
> 
> 
> Varg condemned the killing also?



Idk about Varg, I only spoke to Ihshan. He was only there with his backing band, Leprous.


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## wlfers

He did condemn the killings, he said something along the lines of "you do not kill children no matter how brainwashed they are". Just saying that condemning or condoning the Brevik killings does not make one National Socialist or not.


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## Explorer

@ the OP: So... with the church burning and murder stuff, do they reach your required level of bad behavior... either for not listening to a band because you don't agree with their disregard for others, or being completely into it, whichever was your goal?

And, which was it? Thumbs up or down? If you're mustering the energy to at least ask, then it matters to you in at least a minor way.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

Ryan-ZenGtr- said:


> It's a bit more complicated and darker than that. Do some research and be prepared to become really confused.
> 
> It always makes me wonder how people (and cultists especially) can take themselves so seriously.
> 
> Anyway, funny post for funny thread!




Satanists don't take themselves ultra-seriously..Satanism is about enjoying life..being a self absorbed blowhard sure isn't much fun.

As for Emperor..the brains behind the band doesn't seem to be part of any of the usual black metal foolishness. He's one of the few who seems to have grown up.


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## Xaios

Agreed, Ihsahn at least seems to have come from the same stock as Immortal, more or less removed from the NSBM and anti-religious elements that pervaded the black metal scene at the time.


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## Konfyouzd

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> Satanists don't take themselves ultra-seriously..Satanism is about enjoying life..being a self absorbed blowhard sure isn't much fun.



Confidence despite being "different" is often taken as taking oneself too seriously. "How dare you not immediately change your mind when it becomes apparent that we have fundamental differences?" Sounds like Haterade imo. And maybe a little bit of arrogance.


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## renzoip

athawulf said:


> He did condemn the killings, he said something along the lines of "you do not kill children no matter how brainwashed they are". Just saying that condemning or condoning the Brevik killings does not make one National Socialist or not.



You've got a point there. But Ihshan also seemed legitimately nice to my friend and I, and we are not people that Nazis would want to be nice to, lol.


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## ilyti

Doesn't matter to me because Ihsahn's solo material is better than Emperor, so I don't even listen to Emperor anymore.


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## wlfers

^ lol what?


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## SenorDingDong

ilyti said:


> Doesn't matter to me because Ihsahn's solo material is better than Emperor, so I don't even listen to Emperor anymore.











I haven't been a big fan of the band, but I've never really heard anything even resembling Nazi-ism in their music when I have taken a dip


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## Jakke

1. I second Konfyouzd and USMarine, who cares?
2. To understand these rumours (and that is what they generally are, rumours), one have get into how this music was greeted when it arose. It was just after the 80's, when politicians had hunted messages for the devil in records and movies, and there were talk about satanic cults abducting children to rape and sacrifice. A lot of dishonest psychiatrists made quite a lot of money by implanting false memories of satanic abuse into people's heads. Now, out of the frozen peninsula of Scandinavia, a scene of metal musicians arises. These were not the Judas Priests or the Twisted Sisters of the world, they did not go to court to prove their music was free of satanic influence, they instead embraced it.
The christian right, especially the american, is highly suseptible to moral panic, the general public is too, to a degree. And you have these bands, proclaiming loudly and proudly the demonic influence on their music. Is it then too far of a stratch to assume that to even more demonize this music, people started spreading around rumours of nazism? I am not even saying people could have been aware of this, we are prone to assume bad things about people we do not like.
That is at least my own home-grown theory.




Xaios said:


> anti-religious elements that pervaded the black metal scene at the time.



I wouldn't say pervaded, pervaded would imply that something is genuinly bad... Religious people probably needs a good scare occasionally as well


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## Necris

Jakke said:


> Is it then too far of a stratch to assume that to even more demonize this music, people started spreading around rumours of nazism? I am not even saying people could have been aware of this, we are prone to assume bad things about people we do not like.
> That is at least my own home-grown theory.


 Nazism in black metal isn't a rumor, it exists. NSBM (National Socialist Black Metal) is an established and recognized sub-genre within the black metal scene. The members of bands within it can also be found in non-politically motivated black metal bands as well.

For Example: One of Gorgoroth's Live Rhythm Guitarists "Paimon" used to play in the band Swastyka before they changed their name to Sunwheel, the live drummer for Dimmu Borgir "Daray" was also the live drummer for Sunwheel.


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## Jakke

Necris said:


> Nazism in black metal isn't a rumor, it exists. NSBM (National Socialist Black Metal) is an established and recognized sub-genre within the black metal scene. The members of bands within it can also be found in non-politically motivated black metal bands as well.
> 
> For Example: One of Gorgoroth's Live Rhythm Guitarists "Paimon" used to play in the band Swastyka before they changed their name to Sunwheel, the live drummer for Dimmu Borgir "Daray" was also the live drummer for Sunwheel.



I am very well aware of that, nazism is not exclusive to black metal however, so I thought it was unnecessary to mention it. You are completely correct of course.


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## ilyti

athawulf said:


> ^ lol what?



I mean what I said. I like Ihsahn's material better, and don't feel inclined to listen to Emperor. I'm just over it, and so is Ihsahn apparently.


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## wlfers

It's just funny that that is your reasoning, especially since he is the same guy regardless of the band he's in. And his solo material being better than his Emperor material is subjective. 



ilyti said:


> Ihsahn's solo material is better than Emperor


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## ilyti

I'm fully aware that taste is subjective. I didn't intend for it to be taken as fact. Yeah, it's the same guy in both bands, but I THINK the music sounds different. I'm not trying to be confrontational, so... sorry I didn't express myself more clearly?


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## Necris

In my opinion his best compositions were created with input from another guitarist. His solo material seems kind of hackneyed by comparison.


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## wlfers

ilyti said:


> I'm fully aware that taste is subjective. I didn't intend for it to be taken as fact. Yeah, it's the same guy in both bands, but I THINK the music sounds different. I'm not trying to be confrontational, so... sorry I didn't express myself more clearly?



No problem. I just think if someone is worried enough about him having NS sympathies that the offense they take wouldn't be limited to Emperor.
But it seems neither of us care anyway and just like it for the music, whether we enjoy one or the other better.


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## ittoa666

This probably sparked the Nazi rumors.


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## Goatchrist

I once did research this rumor... 
I think he is not a Nazi.. but he did say some pretty stupid "satanic ideology" inspired stuff, which could have been understood wrong.


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## DrakkarTyrannis

Goatchrist said:


> I once did research this rumor...
> I think he is not a Nazi.. but he did say some pretty stupid "satanic ideology" inspired stuff, which could have been understood wrong.



I find it odd that people confuse Satanic philosophy with being a Nazi as if they somehow have something to do with one another..they in fact do not.


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## 7 Strings of Hate

Honestly, I couldnt give a shit what he believes. Emperor rules and so does his solo stuff. Thats all I need to listen. 

Oh, and prometheus is one of my favorite albums of all time. Definatly top 10


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## Jakke

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I find it odd that people confuse Satanic philosophy with being a Nazi as if they somehow have something to do with one another..they in fact do not.



Yeah, that is odd. Especially odd since the nazis were christians


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## Xaios

Jakke said:


> I wouldn't say pervaded, pervaded would imply that something is genuinly bad... Religious people probably needs a good scare occasionally as well



That might be your take on its meaning, but its actual definition is "to become spread throughout all parts of."


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## Jakke

Xaios said:


> That might be your take on its meaning, but its actual definition is "to become spread throughout all parts of."



Ah, thanks for clearing it up


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## Jakke

This is very related:






^Courtesy of Metalhead Memes


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## Goatchrist

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I find it odd that people confuse Satanic philosophy with being a Nazi as if they somehow have something to do with one another..they in fact do not.



I know it hasn't anything to do with each other.

I once read an interview were he was talking about egocentric views(he was pretty young), he mentioned that he does not care about "weak" starving children in Africa, I guess he just chose a poor example. 

I think he has matured a lot.


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## Konfyouzd

DrakkarTyrannis said:


> I find it odd that people confuse Satanic philosophy with being a Nazi as if they somehow have something to do with one another..they in fact do not.



If it's not righteous and "godly" then it's satanic, clearly...  

All things "bad" (or different) get swept into the same pile if you let a dumbass make the decision.


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## kung_fu

I recall reading in a guitar world around the time Prometheus came out, that he was currently listening to lots of Lenny Kravitz (a black jew). Unless he was being ironic, this points NOT a nazi .


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## Konfyouzd

See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together? 

Even if he WAS a Nazi does that mean he couldn't like Lenny Kravitz's music? Is his music Jewish or is he?

This is the same bullshit that ppl go on with every time the media reveals that some celebrity is just as much human as the rest of us...

"<Random Celebrity> caught cheating!"

Oh bc that's something that none of us can relate to... And it clearly means that whatever they've done to gain recognition is no longer good? 

If a person presents himself to you as a musician don't expect sainthood from them. Expect music. Save the rest of that shit for a more appropriate time and place.


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## Xaios

Jakke said:


> Ah, thanks for clearing it up



New thread time:

"Xaios a grammar Nazi?"


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## Konfyouzd

Xaios said:


> New thread time:
> 
> "Xaios a grammar Nazi?"


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## DrakkarTyrannis

Konfyouzd said:


> See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together?
> 
> Even if he WAS a Nazi does that mean he couldn't like Lenny Kravitz's music? Is his music Jewish or is he?
> 
> This is the same bullshit that ppl go on with every time the media reveals that some celebrity is just as much human as the rest of us...
> 
> "<Random Celebrity> caught cheating!"
> 
> Oh bc that's something that none of us can relate to... And it clearly means that whatever they've done to gain recognition is no longer good?
> 
> If a person presents himself to you as a musician don't expect sainthood from them. Expect music. Save the rest of that shit for a more appropriate time and place.



This. I like music..not someone's personal ideologies.


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## Waelstrum

Konfyouzd said:


> See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together?
> 
> Even if he WAS a Nazi does that mean he couldn't like Lenny Kravitz's music? Is his music Jewish or is he?
> 
> This is the same bullshit that ppl go on with every time the media reveals that some celebrity is just as much human as the rest of us...
> 
> "<Random Celebrity> caught cheating!"
> 
> Oh bc that's something that none of us can relate to... And it clearly means that whatever they've done to gain recognition is no longer good?
> 
> If a person presents himself to you as a musician don't expect sainthood from them. Expect music. Save the rest of that shit for a more appropriate time and place.



I can see your point, and if Ihsan (sp) was a Nazi but not his music, then it probably wouldn't mattaer as much. (Some might feel bad about contributing any money at all to a Nazi, but that's another thing.) However, if Emperor was an NSMB band (they're not, but this is just if), then that would be a different story. In the same way that some people won't listen to music that has lyrics they find boring, many people wish not to be offended, and there isn't much subject matter more offensive than glorifying Nazis.


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## wlfers

That's ridiculous though. How did National Socialism become the most offensive subject matter? On a personal level I can find many more things that are worse than a social-political ideology that ties racism into its foundation- though that is just my opinion. 

Really, anyone who publicly holds those opinions eternally condemns themselves to never be taken seriously. Condemning it is about as useful and productive as condemning cancer.

I tried to hate on MJ when the pedophilia allegations came out. But the truth of the matter is whether or not he touched a young boy or two, his music is still bumpin as fuck.


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## Konfyouzd

So is the subject matter the only thing that matters? Assuming an instrumental artist/band felt a certain way and you don't agree. Would that be a big deal too?


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## Waelstrum

athawulf said:


> That's ridiculous though. How did National Socialism become the most offensive subject matter? On a personal level I can find many more things that are worse than a social-political ideology that ties racism into its foundation- though that is just my opinion.



Over sixty million deaths(from the Holocaust and war combined) is a pretty offensive thing to glorify. There are probably worse things, but it's not a competition.



athawulf said:


> Really, anyone who publicly holds those opinions eternally condemns themselves to never be taken seriously. Condemning it is about as useful and productive as condemning cancer.



I would say that it is slightly more productive to condemn Nazism than it is to condemn cancer. Cancer can't be stopped by teaching history to children at school, whereas Nazism can at least be reduced to only the most extremist of racists.



athawulf said:


> I tried to hate on MJ when the pedophilia allegations came out. But the truth of the matter is whether or not he touched a young boy or two, his music is still bumpin as fuck.



I kind of agree with this, and I use the same justification whenever I feel like listening to Wagner. (Incidentally, Wagner wasn't a Nazi either, but that is because his dates don't match up.)


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## Jakke

I just realized, these rumours are a grand breach of Godwin's law!


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## wlfers

And death is a topic foreign to metal? It's not a competition, I just clearly disagree with it being as offensive as you make it out to be, especially since there are plenty of jackasses out there making great music to disagree with. 

I'm not disagreeing with your main point, in the hypothetical that it would be different between if he was NS yet left Emperor without political influence, and if he included a political message tied to the music.


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## petereanima

Konfyouzd said:


> See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together?



Because if I spend my money on records or live-shows, I do not want to support some lowlife Nazi-scum with it.


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## ilyti

I'd say it can ruin an artist or band a lot more quickly if their lyrics and band imagery promote ideas I don't agree with. But if I don't know what they're saying (it's in another language or is instrumental only) then it's harder for my conscience to decide. As for Wagner.. yeah, he was a bigot, but so were a looooot of people in those days. Mozart was a freemason, and allegedly a real creep, but that isn't going to affect what I think of his music. I'd buy a Wagner CD, but not a Burzum CD, because most people know by now how wrong it is to be racist/bigoted, and it's not like they're acting in ignorance. That said, I probably wouldn't know Varg was a racist, bigoted assclown if it weren't for the fact that he killed a guy. And his lyrics are all in Norwegian, or entirely indecipherable. 

As for Ihsahn, all I can ever decipher in his lyrics is misanthropy and general pessimism. Never anything really offensive. So, even if certain members of Emperor had NS leanings, if they didn't actually have much to do with writing the music (they didn't, it was always the Ihsahn show), it doesn't bother me too much. And further, now that he does it ALL by himself, it makes my conscience feel slightly better.


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## petereanima

ilyti said:


> That said, I probably wouldn't know Varg was a racist, bigoted assclown if it weren't for the fact that he killed a guy.



Read the stuff on his homepage. You might feel the urge to puke afterwards tough.


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## kung_fu

Konfyouzd said:


> See this is what I don't get. Why does a person's personal beliefs have to have anything to do with whether or not you enjoy the way they put sounds together?
> 
> Even if he WAS a Nazi does that mean he couldn't like Lenny Kravitz's music? Is his music Jewish or is he?



I just posted the Lenny Kravitz bit as i thought it was amusing. The only thing _*I*_ use t judge what music i like is my ears. I don't think that i belong to any extreme ideological group, but I do think that there are certain ideologies that might inhibits someone's ability to like music. Not disliking the sounds themselves, disliking something about the artist so strongly that it they allow it to affect their musical tastes (pretty mental, right? ). For instance, a white supremacist might actually dig hip-hop but would have a had time reconciling this with their hatred of blacks.


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## blaaargh

To me personally, it doesn't matter what a person/band's beliefs are as long as they make good music. I love Burzum and Nokturnal Mortum even though I think their ideologies are disgusting. It doesn't stop me from enjoying their music.


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## The Uncreator

Konfyouzd said:


> So is the subject matter the only thing that matters? Assuming an instrumental artist/band felt a certain way and you don't agree. Would that be a big deal too?



This is copied from another forum where I answered a very similar question, I still feel this way strongly...

"I laugh because everyone here tries to define Metal. I learned awhile ago thats just useless. Metal is not expression through heavy instrumentation, not trying to argue but its too narrow, too many things exist outside of that definition that are metal. Best way too define Metal is by no definition, its defined only by the listener and there ideas. Thats why its so great! Our definitions vary so greatly yet we all share that same love of Heavy Metal - It unites us! Its a tool for unification regardless of race, sex, or anything, this music is a tool of division. (in reference to a Nazi metal video)

Music is a platform of expression, your expressions are defined by experiences and ideals. This particular ideal, or any rascist ideal, is ignorant, and its an expression of ignorance - Even the most intelligent racist thinker of the face of the plant still falls prey to this simple-minded old world idiocy, and as we move on to the future these petty beliefs are what keep us apart, create wars and conflict. People do not like to be a part of something like that.

People hate this stuff hopefully because they see its something more than just something like anti-religion, its anti-human. With someone who speaks against religion, the intellectual side of the argument is because of the damage it causes to society, to social systems, politics and the whole of humanity, the hate it creates versus the meager amount of joy it provides.

People can understand and even respect anti-religious views because they can be based in facts, intelligent thought structures, humanistic views, ways of thinking that still promote a better world. Racist views are only based in ignorance, no facts, no betterment of mankind, its useless.

I see Wacken or any major metal festival, and I see christians, jews, muslims, atheists, blacks, whites, asians, gays, lesbians, straights - all there to celebrate and enjoy the same thing, Heavy Metal. This "Angry Aryan" thing would turn that view into a sea of bald headed dumb white guys, fuck. that"


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## wlfers

The Uncreator said:


> People hate this stuff hopefully because they see its something more than just something like anti-religion, its anti-human. With someone who speaks against religion, the intellectual side of the argument is because of the damage it causes to society, to social systems, politics and the whole of humanity, the hate it creates versus the meager amount of joy it provides.



That is in no way limited to NSBM.

Old thread is dead


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## grey dog

calling them a nazi band is just what the people who don't know anything would do, you know i read on some christian web site having a go at black metal that said varg vikernes was the guitarist for emperor........

DO THE BLOODY RESEARCH FIRST CHRISTIANS!


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## DiezelMonster

If Emperor isn't then what about Zyklon? hahahah Samoth was in emperor, so they must be Nazis 

Zyklon B - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I keeeeed I keeed. Sorry just wanted to stoke the fires a bit, it's cold in southern ontario right now....ahhh Fuck no its not!


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## Chiba666

I smell decomp


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