# Agile 10 String. Why? Because F**k You! That's Why!



## Sofos

Agile Septor Pro 1030 EB CA Green Flame - RondoMusic.com









Double cutaway light weight Mahogany arch top body with gloss finish
30" scale 5 piece neck-thru body design with 24 Jumbo Frets. 15&#8221; radius. Width 2 1/2&#8221; at the nut 3 1/2" at the 12th fret and 3 1/2" at the 24th fretThickness at the 1st fret: 13/16" at the 12th 15/16"
Ebony fretboard with no markers. Position markers are located on the side of the neck.
Cepheus 10 active pickups
Cepheus 10 Extended Range Bridge.
Grover Die-cast Sealed Tuners with 18-1 ratio
Labella String gauges: .009, .012, .015, .022, .030, .040, .054, .074 .090,.105
Setup to Tune as - Lowest 4 Strings Standard Bass E-G - then standard guitar E-E. However a variey of tunings is possible.


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## crg123

YES!!!


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## ScottyB724

I wouldn't know wether to try and play it or slice cheese with it. On second thought, the cheese thing might get kind of messy..


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## MetalBuddah

So wrong...yet so right. I want it


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## Hollowway

So the description says the widths at the nut, 12th fret and 24th frets are 2.5", 3.5", 3.5"
And on the 9 string Septor it's 2.5", 3 1/8", 3 3/8"

So did Kurt keep the same nut width and just for for slightly narrower string spacing at the nut? It's not an unusual thing to do on an instrument with that many strings. And I don't think it's a typo (like, pasted but not edited from the 9 string description). I think I'll email Kurt...


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## Stealthdjentstic

1100 for a 10 string. Damn thats crazy cheap.


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## rgaRyan

Almost crossing the line between a guitar and a harp!


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## axxessdenied

Now that's a Bass Guitar!!


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## MaxOfMetal

Needs a fan. Would totally be worth the extra cash for a 3".


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## Sofos

MaxOfMetal said:


> Needs a fan. Would totally be worth the extra cash for a 3".



i second this. thatd be ENORMOUS though.. almost impossibru to find a case too. maybe make it a 27-30? the higher strings dont need 30".


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## Bigfan

axxessdenied said:


> Now that's an ERG!!



FTFY.


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## MaxOfMetal

I think the scale and string spacing is so awkward on an instrument like this, that there's really no benefit, outside using it as a touch style instrument. 

I think a large fan would be ideal. Since the board is so wide a larger fan won't feel as cumbersome. A 27" to 32" would be great for those looking to tune extra low and/or make a guitar/bass combo instrument, while 22" to 27" would be great for folks looking to keep in strictly in the guitar-range.


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## Stealthdjentstic

Yeah you could easily get away with fans like that on such a wide board.


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## sell2792

I knew they offered this as a semi custom option, but I've never seen pics.... Damn.


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## Hollowway

Yeah I have a 3" fan on my OAF 10 string, which has the same nut width. Totally easy. Not even noticeable. That's why I have the next 10 designed with a 5" fan. That being said, since 30" can handle E4 but not A4, this is really a G#0-E4 instrument if standard tuning (i.e. 4ths) is used. But it'll need a pretty beefy G#0 string. Murdstone has this going on his 27-30" OAF now. This would be an ideal tapping instrument, though.


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## canuck brian

i would have nightmares about fretting and crowning all those frets.....


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## MaxOfMetal

canuck brian said:


> i would have nightmares about fretting and crowning all those frets.....



It's an Agile, there's no guarantee the frets have been crowned.


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## Adeamus

I really hope someone geographically close to me buys one of these.

Playing it sounds fun, but I feel overwhelmed by my Agile 830 at times.


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## Hollowway

There's actually only one for sale. If this gets bought there will be more, but if not Kurt won't likely make additional ones.


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## Levi79

My 8 is already too much for me, but I still kind of want this.


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## Sofos

i want this to have it, honestly. itd be friggin sweeeet. write some awesome doom metal on this thing. or some TOTALLY EPIC BREAKDOWNS BRO. BECAUSE ALL I DO IS WIN


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## Metal_Webb

The fun one could have with this.....

I'd put the top 4 or 5 strings in an open tuning so I'd be able to do some easy chording. Bottom 5 or 6 would be in a more traditional 4ths tuning, probably starting at something like C#1 running to A2 so standard riffing is easier to achieve and I could have the BrootlZ.

Is it necessary? Probably not. But more choice is always good


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## Ishan

DAT BRIDGE!!!1!!  Totally unnecessary for me but I wouldn't say no 
This thing could accommodate a 4" fan ( it's like having a 3.2" fan on an 8 ).
On a side note, Kurt accept order for 10 strings Pendulum in the custom shop, think about it guys!  
I'm still debating having a 9 string Pendulum made (27"-30") in a few years... Damn GAS!


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## L1ght

All it needs now is an EMG 10 oh 10 and then everybody will buy it.


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## vansinn

Interesting, in a faschion..
My 7-string Wolf bass has a 61mm nut spacing. This one has 2½" = 63.5mm, which is only marginally more to grip over.
Which, going with Max' 27"-32" fan idea, would result in an all-in-one bass/guitar.
Without the fan, I wouldn't consider it.

WRT guitar tuning range without a fan, try tuning the lower 4 strings in forth and the rest in major3rd.
I tried something semilar to this on my 8'er, i.e. lower three in 4th+ the rest in m3; works really well, and results partly in a less wide tuning space (with the resulting gauge issues), plus the nicely tightly packed m3 being really cool for fast shredding 

(not a fan of the F-word in the title)


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## MF_Kitten

Looks like a fun instrument to have and to play, but not something i would ever need or have a real use for. I think 9 strings is my limit, and it would have to be something like drop B tuning on the low end, or if i could get it fanned, drop C.

8 strings is my comfortable limit though. Drop E/Drop D, super awesome. I can thrive with that.


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## yellow

i dont really have much to say or anything greatly helpful or informative to the discussion but i thought id just throw 2 cnts cuz i was reading...8 strings is kinda pushin it for me playability and low end amp/tone, 9 with low c# would be harder to play and harder to "hear" so 10 just seems too much for me on both playability and tone amplification, tho it def looks cool....but whatever, i hope u guys enjoy, PLAY HARD AND LIVE WELL MY FRIENDS, let the metal flow


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## skeels

15" radius? Really?


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## shredguitar7690

I think I know why this guitar is up on the rondo page suddenly. A while back, I ordered a purple 9 string septor 928 with ebony fretboard and passive pickups. I later cancelled that order and changed it to a multiscale when that option came available. The guitar was still being built though and it showed up on the Rondo music page when it was done a few days ago anyway. Someone probably ordered a 10 string and cancelled there order while it was still being produced. I don't think that Kurt was planning on a production model of the 10 string yet since it didn't seem to get too many sales in the custom shop. just my


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## Philligan

I don't know if I'd have use for anything below low C#/B but I'd love to tune this with a high G or A


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## Poparad

skeels said:


> 15" radius? Really?



I've got a 20" radius on my 928, and with such a wide fingerboard it's almost uncomfortably flat. I think 15" would be preferable.


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## skeels

Poparad said:


> I've got a 20" radius on my 928, and with such a wide fingerboard it's almost uncomfortably flat. I think 15" would be preferable.



I know a lot of it is personal preference.
I grew up with classical guitar so I prefer a flatter fretboard.
But for what was mentioned is primarily a touch style instrument 15"radius seems pretty round.

As it is I like to wrap my thumb around the top of the neck and even on some 8s this is tough.


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## ixlramp

^Yes. A good guitar for 3rds tuning or other weird tunings.
It's beautiful.


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## Poparad

ixlramp said:


> ^Yes. A good guitar for 3rds tuning or other weird tunings.
> It's beautiful.



I was just going to mention this. Maj 3rds tuning makes a lot of chords and scales easy to play, but you lose a lot of range on a normal six string.


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## Wings of Obsidian

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think the scale and string spacing is so awkward on an instrument like this, that there's really no benefit, outside using it as a touch style instrument.
> 
> I think a large fan would be ideal. Since the board is so wide a larger fan won't feel as cumbersome. A 27" to 32" would be great for those looking to tune extra low and/or make a guitar/bass combo instrument, while 22" to 27" would be great for folks looking to keep in strictly in the guitar-range.


 
I honestly think this is ridiculous. I mean....really anything beyond an 8-string is completely unnecessary and I think the only way something like this could be played "well" or "tastefully" is to play it touch-style like a Warr guitar or like a Chapman stick.


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## unclejemima218

i'd fool around with it.


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## celticelk

Wings of Obsidian said:


> I honestly think this is ridiculous. I mean....really anything beyond *what I decide is best* is completely unnecessary....



FTFY. Seriously, seven strings were considered exotic instruments for decades, and eight strings still are by the majority of the guitar-playing population. The fact that the music you choose to play doesn't require that many strings != the instrument being "ridiculous."


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## Hollowway

Kurt emailed me back and is going to measure the nut width when he gets back Monday. He's not sure if that's a typo or the actual width.

And I agree this is probably a custom order that was canceled. But Kurt typically uses those sorts of things to gauge interest before making production instruments. And he wrote in his email that he expects someone to buy it before he returns to the office on Monday. So we'll see what happens for future 10s from Rondo.


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## toecutter

This ERG thing is getting a tad ridiculous. More isn't always better but if you are trying to make an impression that will do it!


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## Stealthdjentstic

toecutter said:


> This ERG thing is getting a tad ridiculous. More isn't always better but if you are trying to make an impression that will do it!



Better stop posting here, because I hope you realize what two sites this really is glued together


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## Hollowway

toecutter said:


> This ERG thing is getting a tad ridiculous. More isn't always better but if you are trying to make an impression that will do it!


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## yellow

toecutter said:


> This ERG thing is getting a tad ridiculous. More isn't always better but if you are trying to make an impression that will do it!


 
there are great, novel ideas, and there are great novel ideas that get taken too far. thats when it starts to get rediculous and the idea really no longer carries the original spirit, its kinda more of makin an impression without any further intrinsic value or function. so i dont think youre wrong.


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## shredguitar7690

What's ridiculous and whats not as far as an instrument goes is purely subjective. Rondo music doesn't sell these instruments as a joke. People actually want them. Enough said. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but I think that 99.99% of the community here is tired of hearing these same complaints.


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## Ishan

ERRRGGGGSS!!!111!!1! Who cares what trolls think, as long as we have fun


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## Metal_Webb

If only I had the money lying around, I'd be tempted to make a 15 string with a 6" fan just to piss off all those who don't understand ERG's


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## shredguitar7690

> If only I had the money lying around, I'd be tempted to make a 15 string with a 6" fan just to piss off all those who don't understand ERG's


With a zero fret, BKP's, a Spalted Chestnutheart body, and a 8 piece Whitezebra wood neck. Also featuring piezo pickups, octave4plus strings, no fretmarkers, and a free AxeFX Ultra thrown in! Oh and Fred Brum would own it and stun us all with his mastery of ERGs.


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## Ishan

16 strings? No problem, make it a tap guitar


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## AcousticMinja

I like it and would love to have it if I had the money. I already do a variety of alt tunings and something like this would give me all the range I want and more. 

But yeah, it's a cool looking instrument. I hope someone snags this soon and posts a review!


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## yellow

i was thinkin tho, at a certain point, i mean if it continues in a certain direction of some sort that i cant or wont conjecture or predict as a possible outcome, ERG's wont really be guitars, theyd be another instrument - some kind of instrument

ill max out and cash in at 8, certainly more than enough, for me and i would think more than that (BUT if i ever see a 9+ string by a major guitar company brand like ibanez, shecter, esp,etc.... for <$300, ill definitely get it just to get, no way any electric guitarist would pass on any 8+ string guitar for that period, so bring on the 9s,10s,11s and whatever else u can fit on a neck that i can reach the lowest strings n fret, cant really see it happenin on anything more than 9, but fuck it man, ill take a 10 string for 300 anyday, so keep that in mind if anyone wants to get rid of a 10 string when they need 300 bucks)

8 STRINGS RULE!


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## Stealthdjentstic

Maybe you should buy some grammar lessons first.


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## yellow

maybe u should not be a clown and go practice or something. if u knew what my profession is, ud either not be worried about syntax and mundane details like grammEr on a casual forum or egotism would gain favor and ud certainly be unknowingly ignorant (double strength) and beleive that ur reply held some kind of merit, value, maybe wit, or perhaps a tint of a sting like the rapping of sticks against flesh, painful enough to annoy but something that fades as quickly as the blood that returns to the shaken nerve.....all in all, ur sujestshun uv "bying lesinz" fawlz shawrt uv ur intenshin. take this is a lesson from a random bit of code flowing through cyberspace: practice, practice, practice. (8 STRINGS RULE)

edit: wow! gota lota negative feedback or comments or w/e from that post. so for all those who took what i meant to be a pretty unbiased opinion so personally that they had to troll patrol and go outta their way to express their disdain by genersouly bestowing neg rep points and comments with such outstandingly childish outrage: i commend ur tenacity and faith in what u believe to be a righteous march -- especially in regaurds to the unknown and such seemingly endless seas teeming with possibilities [of increasing numbers of strings,multi scaled fanned fretboards, and the developing mentally controlled note expression and self regenerating indestrucible components, hardware, and electronics that will never need adjustment, tuning or intonation,::/end tomfoolery::] like perhaps an instrument of the ERG or XSI (extended scale instrument i think) as halo calls them, which will soon be a more fitting definition probably, time will tell i guess -- but i still say, a certain movement of ERG's or w/e u wanna call a guitar that's evolving into another instrument, which clearly is not a guitar that is, if u didnt get it, is simply just that...another instrument. i got ERGs, tho i shudder now that i know my 7 string and 8 string guitars are no longer allowed to be considered just guitars...theyre something different, something more, something, i...dont....know.....ill stop here because a realization has just dawned upon me as if enlightenment had been granted to me by the universe in its infinite love and wisdom: ERGs can be anything ANYTHING YOU WANT THEM TO BE because this universe is indeed a mirror of your true self. everything is anything when something is something else....u see? it doesn't matter, as rediculous as this post is, and as rediculous as anything else you can possibly think of to reply to this in some kind of way that would undermine this rollercoaster of a cohesively chaotic thought pattern, can NEVER take away the fact that an ERG is an ERG. 

(open to "buying lessons" in logic, reason, and common sense, especially if grammar,spelling from metal webb only, i need to lrn 2 spll cuz hes an intelligent and mature adult english speaker, and oh and if an 11 string ERG will be offered at a discounted bundle price, ill pay more for a 9 string, but less for a 10)

guys, relax man, dont be so serious. ERGs? come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn , turn on that amp and just shred


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## Ishan

You're over thinking man! Too much sugar in the coffee this morning? 
This thread almost completly derailed  That 10 strings is still nice but I can't stand that green


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## Metal_Webb

Sad to say, but this thread is rapidly heading towards a


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## ShadowFactoryX

Only use I can think of this, is to tap..
tap everywhere, all day

otherwise, the string spacing is gross
i dont like the spacing on my 8 at all, and im sure this would feel no better


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## Winspear

yellow said:


> if u knew what my profession is, ud either not be worried about syntax and mundane details like grammEr



I really am curious what you have to say - unfortunately I can't read more than a handful of words from you at a time before my eyes fall quickly to the end of the paragraph with no idea what I just read. Seriously, if you have something to say - write it properly. Some (I'd assume most) people literally find this crap impossible to read.


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## Vostre Roy

EtherealEntity said:


> I really am curious what you have to say - unfortunately I can't read more than a handful of words from you at a time before my eyes fall quickly to the end of the paragraph with no idea what I just read. Seriously, if you have something to say - write it properly. Some (I'd assume most) people literally find this crap impossible to read.


 
English ain't my first language, and I'm surely not the only one on the forum that is in that situation. Its hard for us to only use english to begin with, its even harder when some people use poor grammar or abreviated words. I'm really happy to see that most people on this forum take time to write correctly.

Cheers!

Edit: Just so I don't go too far off topic, I'll add my opinion on this guitar. Its pretty freaking cool, in some way. I can really see it being used as a touch instrument, but I think that it would be cool if it had two separate output, one that would go to a guitar amp and one to a bass amp. That way, it could be used as both instrument, and as a tapping instrument. I was awaiting the first Agile 10xx, nice to see one, but I'll leave it to people who can play such an instrument.


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## Wings of Obsidian

This debate above is making my balls itch.... -_-

People are going to keep asking for more strings....until they settle and get a Warr guitar or a Chapman stick....by then the so-called "novel idea" has lost its novelty and uniqueness.

But yes, you guys are right. People DO ask for things like 9-strings, 10-strings, etc....but the Warr guitar (with 12 full strings) has been around for a long time. So, let's just see how the designing principles with these ERG's go as they get bigger with more strings.......this intrigues me......


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## hellraizer84

this shit is just getting crazy now...i thought 8s were stupid when i seen em then i wanted one haha,but this...it looks cool as fuck but seriously in a band enviorment what be the point here?also the strings seem really light for that kind of tuning,looks fuckin awesome though haha love to hear a demo


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## yellow

EtherealEntity said:


> I really am curious what you have to say - unfortunately I can't read more than a handful of words from you at a time before my eyes fall quickly to the end of the paragraph with no idea what I just read. Seriously, if you have something to say - write it properly. Some (I'd assume most) people literally find this crap impossible to read.


oh. i didnt realize that my posting format was visually disorienting, so to you, ill try to explain as clearly and as cleanly as possible without the interjections of figurative intricacies.

however, upon examining my member POINTS!!! it still seems that people think im being a TROLL monster lurking between the deceptive cracks of the ERG pitfall, stalking ever so calculatedly, waiting for a senseless victim to slip and tumble into my devious trap,which would reveal the illusory fallacy that enshrouds the mysterious plethora of forms that the ERG may assume.

anyway, ill just stop fucking around with everyone. im not really a troll, like i said i gotta 7 and 8 string guitar BECAUSE of ss.org, so i wouldnt come here to waste my time to tell anyone that what they think is rediculous, even if it is rediculous, lol, im not trying to judge so with all that said and done, i will clearly state what i meant to say in the most direct terms i can possibly try to simplify, and im doin it specifically for etherealentity as well as anyone who is interested in A (not my single and only) broad scope of ERG development to completion.

1) I responded to a poster who said the "ERG thing is getting a bit rediculous". My response was nothing more than I thought he was not wrong, mind you, i was not saying I agreed or that he was correct, BUT that his opinion was not wrong.

2) Posts followed, I then stated that as for me, I feel maximum comfortability with a maximum of 8 strings (tho I will mention now, I like 7 strings the most), but that I wouldn't mind owning a 9, 10, or more string guitar.

3) I was then relentlessly berated from my pretty netural viewpoint to my posting content and general syntax by a host of fiends who I am certain are seeking my immediate untimely demise (I apologize, I got a little imaginative again, but instead of deleting it and plainly stating that I was misunderstood and penalized for their misunderstanding, I wanted to leave that in because it sounds better considering how the eager anticipation to pounce on a non-non-conformist was readily at hand)

4) Getting back to my original point: An ERG has two fates - 1) it will continue to evolve to the point that it is no longer a guitar but a different instrument altogether or (2) it will begin to plateau around the 10 string mark since we've reached that in production models now at which point it will still certainly remain a guitar, not distinctively an ERG as a seperate genus of the string family, tho it can carry the title that along with it, but essentially it will just be a guitar with a lot more strings than a regular guitar, and by regular i mean standard, and by standard i mean 6 strings, which reaaaallly just means, a guitar

IN CONCLUSION: Altering the form, structure, and function both in terms of physical construction (as in a considerable deviation from current standards, including the currently accepted deviations such as the ERG's we own already, in other words surpassing them significantly) and musical compostion (e.g. arrangement and orchestration based on harmonic and tonal frequencies) will EVENTUALLY yield something that is different than the instrument we refer as a guitar. However, as it is, ERG's are just as much guitars as your good ol' six string shooter.

The skinny: ERG's are pretty cool and I think that pushing them much further would be an unconsious attempt at creating a different instrument rather than crystallizing an already excellent foundation that's still in progress albeit far along the way.

An analogy maybe? Anyone up for one? Hmm? Ok...A harpsichord and a piano are almost the same thing....ALMOST. They are still very much their own instrument, with a very fine and blurry line dividing their existence as seperate (inanimate) entities. Sometimes a keyboard can even be a piano, though a piano can never, ever be a keyboard. That line is even more obscure to the point that I think I might be now losing my vision.

Anyway, jokes aside, I ain't muthafuckin trollin so take that shit off my fuckin profile if u got any comprehension of how logical thought gives birth to intelligible reason that can be objective if looked at from the right angle as there are many sides to anything. OK, I can be misleading, I admit it, because I tend to change tone and tenor very abruptly which can make it look like I am being subversive, when in truth, Im really trying just to have a bit of fun wording my thoughts to create an ambiguously open ended position that incorporates more than one viewpoint while still rooting it in the fertile grounds of reference and norms. At least, how I see them, but then again, I'm.....well, I think I said more than enough.

Blessings to all of my fellow guitarists on this forum who are verily blessed to be reading a post at this point because it means you are already on the path! (What path? The one we are all one my friends, and I hesitantly am including my beligerent comrades as well, and it includes the fortune of being able to create music with an ERG, a guitar.

Hope that clears things up now. Didn't mean to go and ruffle up ya feathers there anybody, oh....And Bill Shakespeare will close this enormity of a post that should have never been born, but since it has, it should have been truncated to no more than 3 sentences, I think we can all agree on this. Billy, take it away:

If we shadows have offended,
Think but this, and all is mended,
That you have but slumber'd here
While these visions did appear.
And this weak and idle theme,
No more yielding but a dream,
Gentles, do not reprehend:
if you pardon, we will mend:
And, as I am an honest Puck,
If we have unearned luck
Now to 'scape the serpent's tongue,
We will make amends ere long;
Else the Puck a liar call;
So, good night unto you all.
Give me your hands, if we be friends,
And Robin shall restore amends.
(Midsummer Night's Dream, Act v. Scene i.)


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## Wings of Obsidian

Props for utilizing William Shakespeare. I love "A Midsummer Night's Dream". ^^^


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## yellow

Wings of Obsidian said:


> Props for utilizing William Shakespeare. I love "A Midsummer Night's Dream". ^^^


 
thanks man. i appreciate the recognition for the reference, really i do, it is certainly one of my favorite shakespearean productions, perhaps favorite film version of all as well. 

[but i already started to derail this crazy train so i don't wanna cause a trainwreck cuz now im getting EVEN MORE NEGATIVE POINTS FOR GOIN OUTTA MY WAY TO COOL THINGS OFF!!!! HAHAAHAHA, 40 pts left, and i dare anyone to hit me with more, in the words of shang tsung "FINISH HIM"...] 

but anyway, cool man, thanks again for givin me props.


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## USMarine75

I don't know that I _NEED_ a 10-string or that I would be comfortable playing one... but, now that I know there is one for $1100... I have to _HAVE_ one.


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## USMarine75

shredguitar7690 said:


> What's ridiculous and whats not as far as an instrument goes is purely subjective. Rondo music doesn't sell these instruments as a joke. People actually want them. Enough said. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course but I think that 99.99% of the community here is tired of hearing these same complaints.


 
Can't disagree with someone that is rocking a GKG !!! F' yeah man!!! 

I almost bought the yellow R36, but I had GAS for too many other things at the time...


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## Winspear

See, you can write just fine! Much better, keep it that way 

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I knew you had some good points and weren't trolling which is why I was interested to read, it just really is impossible in one big sentence and paragraph haha.


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## yellow

EtherealEntity said:


> See, you can write just fine! Much better, keep it that way
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to explain. I knew you had some good points and weren't trolling which is why I was interested to read, it just really is impossible in one big sentence and paragraph haha.


 
thank you sir. I appreciate your time to give me feedback as well as ur ability to comprehend my original point.


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## Winspear

yellow said:


> there are great, novel ideas, and there are great novel ideas that get taken too far. thats when it starts to get rediculous and the idea really no longer carries the original spirit, its kinda more of makin an impression without any further intrinsic value or function. so i dont think youre wrong.



I can also see the point behind this and agree with it a lot of the time. This ERG thing is spreading hard and fast, most of the time for worse not good. I think it just stands out more to us, involving ERGs. I mean, there's been huge amounts of kids playing pointy guitars to be cool for a very long time now. And it's the same here - kids playing guitars with more strings to be cool. You see more of that than you do people using them well, at least in my experience.
This is largely the reason I do not openly, and even go to extents to avoid, bringing up my custom 9 string with 90% of people I meet. I feel most would throw around comments about so many strings being stupid, or assume I love the chuggah chuggah and not much else. Or, assume I'm an insane guitarist and ask me to blow them away with 9 string sweep arpeggios 
None of which are true, I just like the range and want to use it creatively.


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## Adam Of Angels

*enters page 3 and reads...*

I don't know what's actually going on here, but egos are hilarious


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## yellow

EtherealEntity said:


> I can also see the point behind this and agree with it a lot of the time. This ERG thing is spreading hard and fast, most of the time for worse not good. I think it just stands out more to us, involving ERGs. I mean, there's been huge amounts of kids playing pointy guitars to be cool for a very long time now. And it's the same here - kids playing guitars with more strings to be cool. You see more of that than you do people using them well, at least in my experience.
> This is largely the reason I do not openly, and even go to extents to avoid, bringing up my custom 9 string with 90% of people I meet. I feel most would throw around comments about so many strings being stupid, or assume I love the chuggah chuggah and not much else. Or, assume I'm an insane guitarist and ask me to blow them away with 9 string sweep arpeggios
> None of which are true, I just like the range and want to use it creatively.


 
not to sound like a broken record, but again, thank you for bringing up my original post/point and bringing some light to what i meant to begin with in the first place, u know, cuz its self evident that i meant no harm...ur a cool dude for doin that man.


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## MaxOfMetal

Metal_Webb said:


> Sad to say, but this thread is rapidly heading towards a



Tell me about it.


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## yellow

Adam Of Angels said:


> *enters page 3 and reads...*
> 
> I don't know what's actually going on here, but egos are hilarious


 
nothings goin on man lol just a really long misunderstanding, if it werent for egos we wouldnt be speaking, human to human, well...human to computer to computer to human, but yeah, egos are great!


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## USMarine75

Sooo... not to derail the thread... but anyone buy it yet?


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## vampiregenocide

Wow, I have no idea why the derailment as I can't be bothered to read those huge posts, but ease up. It's just the internet.


I think this is cool, if people can use 10 strings properly then it will be interesting to see.


----------



## Adam Of Angels

yellow said:


> nothings goin on man lol just a really long misunderstanding, if it werent for egos we wouldnt be speaking, human to human, well...human to computer to computer to human, but yeah, egos are great!




When they're used right, they are fine.


---

Anyway, what I'm wondering is, what could you actually tune this thing to? The 30" scale is going to make standard tuning on the top 6 a little difficult, which is bad considering that you have to do something with 4 lower strings still... Assuming you're tuning to standard, would you then have a LOW G#?


----------



## bob123

Anyone have a video of a 10 string playing? I dont see how this is useful as a guitar, it seems to be breaching on chapman stick territory.


----------



## Winspear

bob123 said:


> Anyone have a video of a 10 string playing? I dont see how this is useful as a guitar, it seems to be breaching on chapman stick territory.



I tried to find something yesterday to counter some negative comments. They've been used in classical for a very long time, but of course the tuning is different. Using them more as open bass strings e.g E D C B rather than E B F# C# so going nowhere near as low and often not fretting them at all. 

There's plenty of that to be found 10 string guitar - YouTube

But I'd assume most questioning of this instrument is with regards to the very low pitch if tuned standard, or the width of the neck with regards to fretting. I think one only needs to check out some Yves Carbonne to get rid of any thoughts that this width might be unplayable. 

With the pitch - I must agree. I can't think of much use, or what the tone would be like, of a G# at a mere 30 inches. I think it's odd to make an instrument like this without fanned frets (assuming 4ths tuning), especially coming from a company which produces fanned frets. Were the high end short enough to consider tuning up some, then the low pitches would be more acceptable in my opinion.


----------



## Winspear

I think the only sensible non-classical style tuning for these instruments without fanned frets are ones like Rondo suggests with the gauges and info on the page - such as EA_DG EA_DGBE - The italic DG and EA being a tone apart in pitch. Bass+guitar could make for some interesting playing. 
BEAD BEADGB could be another cool one.


----------



## bob123

EtherealEntity said:


> I tried to find something yesterday to counter some negative comments. They've been used in classical for a very long time, but of course the tuning is different. Using them more as open bass strings e.g E D C B rather than E B F# C# so going nowhere near as low and often not fretting them at all.
> 
> There's plenty of that to be found 10 string guitar - YouTube
> 
> But I'd assume most questioning of this instrument is with regards to the very low pitch if tuned standard, or the width of the neck with regards to fretting. I think one only needs to check out some Yves Carbonne to get rid of any thoughts that this width might be unplayable.
> 
> With the pitch - I must agree. I can't think of much use, or what the tone would be like, of a G# at a mere 30 inches. I think it's odd to make an instrument like this without fanned frets (assuming 4ths tuning), especially coming from a company which produces fanned frets. Were the high end short enough to consider tuning up some, then the low pitches would be more acceptable in my opinion.





Thanks for posting this. Im surprised to see it played like this. Id expect it be more for open tuning stuff.


----------



## shredguitar7690

I think it's interesting that ERG players always seem to have to separate themselves from this perceived mass of tasteless people who just like adding more strings for "teh djents" or something lol. Kinda how like "shredders" have to constantly separate themselves from a perceived mass of egotistic emotionless wankers. I'm not getting worked up here, it just interests me. Bassists seem to not get as much crap for adding more strings, and the chapman stick is confusing to most but not hated as much as other ERGs. And decent violinists aren't having to constantly separate themselves from the crap that sometimes comes out of middle school and high school orchestras. There's always gonna be bad/tasteless players, it just seems that some things are more controversial for some reason.

Sorry for derailing this thread any further


----------



## LordCashew

shredguitar7690 said:


> There's always gonna be bad/tasteless players, it just seems that some things are more controversial for some reason.



It seems to me that the controversy arises when there's some sort of subculture or "scene" involved. Then there's kind of a bandwagon effect that happens, and there's some homogenization of the style and less emphasis on musicality or innovation and facility on the instrument. So in some cases, whether with shred or djent, there are so many people doing predictable things that one must make a real effort to be recognized as unique or high quality. That said, a lot of players of "stereotypical" genre music are really talented and we can't all start off as innovators either.

I agree that bassists seem to be more accepting of extended-range instruments. I think that's partly because there's not as strong of an association between ERBs and a particular scene or style of music, so ERB guys don't have to work as hard to avoid pigeonholing. But there are some "Jaco only needed four" nazis out there. 

I think it's a similar situation with the other instruments you mentioned. How many crappy violinists come out of school thinking they're hella cool, join a band, etc? Probably a much smaller percentage than guitarists!

Edit: Oh, and as for the guitar itself... I'm a bassist myself and cant really justify buying gear that won't make me money at this point, but if I had some money to blow I would totally get one. I have no idea what I'd do with it but that actually makes it even more appealing. I like to experiment.


----------



## Konfyouzd

I think people get a little too wrapped up in what role a particular tool is "supposed" to play in an abstract arena.

The bass guitar is less than a century old as far as I know, however so many folks seem to feel they know with absolute certainty what its role should be at all times. The guitar has been around MUCH longer and the number of strings it possess has changed along with the types of roles it can play in a band situation.

Moreover, if Bobby McFerrin is "allowed" to do all the shit he does w/ his voice I think that in itself should be proof that you shouldn't put unnecessary restrictions on your instrument. 

A guy I know through a friend came over this weekend and I showed him my multiscale 8 and explained to him the Drop E tuning and how it can be used to feign a 6 string tuning but with a little extra girth on the bottom of chords and the only thing he could say was "I wouldn't even know what to do with that. I have trouble with 6 strings." Then he just proceeded to bang on my E1 and tell me how low it was as if I'd been previously unaware.

I've had other ppl who'd never even seen an 8 string pick it up and come up with things I'd have NEVER in a million years thought of.

I think it all has to do with what blocks you put up in your mind prior to trying out an instrument. 

For all we know every one of us could compose the next masterpiece on one of these, and then again we may NEVER need one, but a lack of application for one person != a lack of purpose altogether.


----------



## crg123

I'm just going to put this here...


----------



## megano28

Under the right players, this would be just beautiful. I'd get tired of hearing G#0 Chugga chugga though


----------



## Splinterhead

Sir Gregor Clegane called and wants his ukelele back.


----------



## idunno

crg123 said:


> I'm just going to put this here...




Uhh what is on the right? Has it been finished? I NEED TO KNOW.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Looks like a beast


----------



## crg123

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...40983-another-14-string-bass-being-build.html

Unfortunately i don't think it was ever finished


----------



## JStraitiff

Ill agree with konfyouzd. I think ERGs beyond 8 strings (and sometimes including 8 strings) are totally ridiculous and the reason is because i dont have a use for them. For my personal purposes 8 strings are the very tipping point of where extended range meets shock factor and non-necessity. However as far as im concerned anyone playing a 10 string agile will never be playing it at an arena show.


----------



## Hollowway

Looks like it's still FS. I emailed Kurt again to find out about the nut width. I sooo want to buy it but I know I really shouldn't. I personally find a lot of use for multiple strings. I don't think we've even scratched the surface of what can be done on these things.


----------



## JP Universe

Not interested in anything beyond an 8 but AM interested in other guys getting them, experimenting with them and coming up with some cool shit 

There's no need to hate on them


----------



## crg123

Lets just all agree to disagree, its an opinionated topic. Obviously people interested in an ERG to the extend of 10 strings or further really want to expand from the possibilities of the standard 6 string. I feel this is both because of a yearning for a different thought process or a larger palette to compose. Those who don't understand why they would be useful just don't have that same kind of mind set, and they don't have to. 

Now, lets stop derailing the thread and talk about this:
A new (as far as the brand obviously) and exciting instrument that is available for a very reasonable price. 

Rather then discuss why the instrument is pointless isn't it more productive to discuss the possibilities? This is sevenstring.org guys, a place that started for those who wanted to push beyond the norm. Personally I'm not sure what I would do with this instrument but I'm sure as hell excited to see what people can create with it.


----------



## toecutter

Hey now, not trollin or hating, I do have an 8 string. I just can't imagine WTH I would do with 10 strings.


----------



## JazzandMetal

I was waiting for one of these to show up! I want one but can't afford it. It is so massive and beautiful. 

Check out these vids and links. People have definitely just began to scratch the surface with 9+ strings. 



Warr Guitars, Inc. - Gallery - Phalanx Series



Also check out Garry Goodman's album.

I just love extended range stuff.


----------



## Explorer

Not related to ERGs, but definitely to the discussion:

I have friends and coworkers who do Ironman events. Occasionally I'll witness someone, who is clearly not in shape, but who decides to give advice to the competitors regarding why they are not training correctly.

And I'm sure I'm not the only one who wonders... was it so important to this person to insert a negative opinion about the whole thing into a discussion about, say, running shoes or derailleur systems?

"Hey, everybody, there's a new running shoe!"

"I don't find it useful for myself... and don't have enough mental flexibility to put myself into someone else's shoes to imagine otherwise."

I particularly like that there would be a product discussion... and that someone who had to insert their ego into it would also assume that the product discussion was also rooted in ego. 

Go with what one knows, I suppose.

----

I commented earlier in this topic regarding that scale length, but I agree that 30" severely limits any upwards movement in tuning. I'm hoping to do 10 strings with a high G at 25.5", so I won't be pushed lower than B0 at the low end.


----------



## guy in latvia

No low B string for the bass... 

Seriously tho, I see this as a little pointless, if you want a guitar and a bass in one then you need a double neck with two separate outputs. If you want a really ERG instrument, then this tuning doesn't make sense... To be perfectly fair, I own an 8 string and I just cannot see how any notes lower can be useful in a guitar setting. That being said, a neck wider than an 8 string, with such a long scale, would be getting into seriously tough to play category...

I think this is a passing trend, but hey, if you dig, enjoy!


----------



## Konfyouzd

I could see some cool open tuning stuff w this. I think DrakkarTyrannjs uses a pretty non-conventional 6 string tuning that looks a lot like 2 stacked open chords.


----------



## Ishan

guy in latvia said:


> No low B string for the bass...
> 
> Seriously tho, I see this as a little pointless, if you want a guitar and a bass in one then you need a double neck with two separate outputs. If you want a really ERG instrument, then this tuning doesn't make sense... To be perfectly fair, I own an 8 string and I just cannot see how any notes lower can be useful in a guitar setting. That being said, a neck wider than an 8 string, with such a long scale, would be getting into seriously tough to play category...
> 
> I think this is a passing trend, but hey, if you dig, enjoy!



AAL have some low C# action on Weightless (9 strings range) and it sounds fine. Meshuggah have Spasm which have a lot of low Bb action, sounds fine too. The only limit is what you do with it, no one forces you to use the range, it's just there if a particular piece demands it. That's how I see it.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Ishan said:


> The only limit is what you do with it, no one forces you to use the range, it's just there if a particular piece demands it. That's how I see it.





So many folks fail to notice they don't feel compelled to use all 6 of their strings at all times normally. The addition of strings shouldn't suddenly make it mandatory. 

Speaking of 6 strings I'm having a bit of an affair with them at the moment and tend to prefer 8 strings.


----------



## XEN

guy in latvia said:


> I think this is a passing trend


Decacordes have been in play for about 200 years.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Almost 4x as long as the bass guitar has existed. Yet somehow this is infringing upon the range of the bass...


----------



## ixlramp

This guitar is ideal for tuning in 3.5 semitone neutral thirds, allowing quartertones (24 equal steps per octave) to be played. Here's the details: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/music-theory-lessons-techniques/161530-retune-play-quartertone-scales-microtonal-beginners-guide.html
With a slight retuning to alternating Just Intonation major and minor thirds (3.86 and 3.16 semitones), Just Intonation can be played, here's the relevant post in that thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/2530509-post6.html .. and of course you could always retune to 12ET alternating major and minor thirds.

Don't be put off by Agile's bizarre tuning for this, i'm assuming they realise that anyone who buys this will very probably have their own tuning in mind and will immediately replace the strings with their own custom set .. a customer wouldn't want to waste money on expensive stock strings. For this reason i'd be happy even if it were strung F#F#F#BEADGBE.

Member Scott Fernandez' avatar states it perfectly (hope Scott doesn't mind):


----------



## MF_Kitten

urklvt said:


> Decacordes have been in play for about 200 years.



fuck, flutes have been used for 42.000-43.000 years!


----------



## Konfyouzd




----------



## 2ManyShoes

Hmmm . . . makes the 9-string I've got coming in November seem kind of . . .  understated?


----------



## Winspear

2ManyShoes said:


> Hmmm . . . makes the 9-string I've got coming in November seem kind of . . .  understated?



Simple fix:






I'm going to try this mod on my Vik 9 to make up for the fact that it is now missing a string. Never liked that walnut anyway


----------



## Konfyouzd

So first 6 strings are missing a string... Now 9s...



If 6 was 9 it'd still be missing 1...


----------



## USMarine75

^ let the controversy continue...


----------



## Konfyouzd

USMarine75 said:


> ^ let the controversy continue...



You know the question on all of SS.org's mind. Does it djent?


----------



## jake7doyle

looks good IMO, but way too many strings for me


----------



## ixlramp

Major thirds E G# C E G# C E G# C E would still be a 5 octave instrument covering the range of bass EADG and guitar EADGBE.

Minor thirds would still have more range than a standard 6. I know there's someone here who is using minor thirds.

Then there's the fun of inserting extra strings into standard tuning: F#B E A D G a B d E for those fascinating close-harmony chords.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Now we're getting creative.


----------



## abadonae

I was about to make a thread about this after a quick perusal around the rondo site, but thankfully saw someone had. 

This is obscene. I loved their 7's, loved their 8's and found myself wondering what i could do with their 9 string...but this is just utterly ridiculous haha, i think they should've tried to model this more as a touch style instrument...with passive pickups. 
It looks pretty much to me like kurt has tried to make a metal designed 10 string shred machine...but literally...10 strings...just damn


----------



## iRaiseTheDead

Jesus, that is intense.


----------



## USMarine75

I think the only was you could improve upon a 10-string is... instead of having one guy play it, you could have 2 guys with 4 hands to fret all the strings... but, it might get crowded so you could probably just make it a double neck and split up the strings, or even just make them two separate instruments at that point... now we're getting crazy! lolz...

But for $1100, F it... I'm tempted to buy one just to derp around and see what craziness I could come up with! Honestly, if you could set up a low pass filter and send the low end to one amp that had the distortion rolled back and then the upper register to a Freyette or Engl that was more distorted... or maybe an ISP vector sub? Hmmm... then you wouldnt have the muddiness of that G0 or whatever the F the low 10th string would be...


----------



## chromaticdeath

So this thing is basicly a 6 string guitar and a 4 string base in one, i can see the advantages of doing bass rythems along with a melody but not for thrash purposes, you may aswell put the lowest 6 strings on that old squire under the bed that doesn't get played anymore and get it out of your system.

Don't laugh i actually did this but with a 7 string set when i was younger, called it my "no frills" 7 strings and used it just for thrashing!


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

Stealthdjentstic said:


> 1100 for a 10 string. Damn thats crazy cheap.


id buy one if it were a "v"


----------



## Daemoniac

Not necessary for even my contorted uses of a guitar, but that's not to say there aren't people who couldn't use it. I agree completely with Max though, it feels incomplete without a fanned fretboard - like they just wanted to make a 10 string so they could make a 10 string, but without actually thinking about what would make it useful/playable/appealing as an instrument.


----------



## Hollowway

I agree that fanning it would really help, but remember that Adam made a 30" 11 string. Cut out the A4 and that's basically what this is. Fanning is one approach to dealing with wide spread pitches, but there are loads of people that prefer not going to longer scales for low pitches, and instead like to use thicker strings. Anyway, since there is only one Agile 10 string my sense is that this was originally a custom shop spec, and then the customer backed out. Who knows, though.


----------



## M3CHK1LLA

Hollowway said:


> ...Anyway, since there is only one Agile 10 string my sense is that this was originally a custom shop spec, and then the customer backed out. Who knows, though.


why dont you axe him?


----------



## Daemoniac

Hollowway said:


> I agree that fanning it would really help, but remember that Adam made a 30" 11 string. Cut out the A4 and that's basically what this is. Fanning is one approach to dealing with wide spread pitches, but there are loads of people that prefer not going to longer scales for low pitches, and instead like to use thicker strings. Anyway, since there is only one Agile 10 string my sense is that this was originally a custom shop spec, and then the customer backed out. Who knows, though.



Very true, I think it's a case of it being such a wide, long board that - generally - it feels like it would make sense to fan it (much like with a 'standard' 25.5" 6 string it feels like it makes more sense to have it normal). That being said though, you're right in that if it was a custom shop order, then it's no reflection whatsoever on Rondo for those specs.


----------



## guy in latvia

Next thing you know Rondo will make 20-40" fanned 20 strings


----------



## in-pursuit

Hollowway said:


> Fanning is one approach to dealing with wide spread pitches, but there are loads of people that prefer not going to longer scales for low pitches, and instead like to use thicker strings.



the almighty Garry Goodman comes to mind....

















like Hollowway mentioned, a multiscale instrument is just one way of overcoming the physical restrictions of a guitar style stringed instrument with a very large range. Garry approached that same challenge from a very different perspective and has gone a long way towards overcoming it, the benefits of which have been bestowed on anyone who aspires to tune their guitar to the region of A4. 

I personally wouldn't go for a single scale ERG or ERB for that matter, but that's my personal preference and it doesn't determine the value of this instrument to someone who may think differently to me. somewhere out there is someone who will really appreciate this guitar and will get a lot of enjoyment out of playing it, and that's just fine with me


----------



## USMarine75

guy in latvia said:


> Next thing you know Rondo will make 20-40" fanned 20 strings


 
The two things everyone is thinking:

1. That's fucking stupid...

2. I should hold off buying the 10-string in case I can get this for $1100, too


----------



## JazzandMetal

I like the idea. You could definitely do something on it. If someone like the ubiquitous Tosin Abasi with enough vision and chops gets one and puts out something pretty groundbreaking like the first Animals as Leaders album, I bet a bunch of people will go nuts over it and a few will actually buy one. 

I mean, guys can handle 8 and 9 strings in a metal context which can be a little narrow, and guys like Garry Goodman and people endorsed by Warr guitars play 11 and 12 string basses. There are plenty of people out there who can play the thing with skill. 

I want it. Can't afford it.


----------



## RV350ALSCYTHE

If using it to cover guitar+bass range, which amplification would you require?
I assume a standard guitar amp wouldn't be able to handle the added low end, but would a bassamp be able to sound decent for leads and high-gain?

I love playing guitar and bass and I'd consider one of these if it is able to produce the desired sound from each respective instrument. My 8 string is fun to play some basslines on but through my guitar amps/pickups it can't quite produce the warm deep bass sounds I personally enjoy playing.


----------



## yellow

RV350ALSCYTHE said:


> If using it to cover guitar+bass range, which amplification would you require?
> I assume a standard guitar amp wouldn't be able to handle the added low end, but would a bassamp be able to sound decent for leads and high-gain?


 
that's what i'm thinkin. doesn't really make sense from that point from the start - amplification. 8's pushin it already, anything more, well idk.


----------



## XEN

Straight frets work well for that tuning at that scale length, but I would probably tune the upper 6 strings down 2 whole steps.

On the XENs I'm sticking with a 27-30" fan, tuned BEADGCFADG.
(here's a mockup we're working on)


----------



## Konfyouzd

Oooohh... The mockups are getting nicer.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Did you get started on any of the builds?


----------



## guy in latvia

USMarine75 said:


> The two things everyone is thinking:
> 
> 1. That's fucking stupid...
> 
> 2. I should hold off buying the 10-string in case I can get this for $1100, too




I'm actually very curious how many *new *8 and 9 string guitars are purchased from Rondo directly. Would be interested to see how big the budget ERG market is. I mean it must be significant enough for them to justify making a 10 string...


----------



## XEN

Konfyouzd said:


> Did you get started on any of the builds?


A headless 8 and a headless 10 are in progress now.


----------



## WiseSplinter

For tuning to the magical A4, would an instrument with a shorter scale on the treble side be easier on the strings? 
Say, a 10 string with a scale of 27" (bass) to 23.5" (treble) tuned like a standard 9 but with the high A instead of the low 10th string. Or perhaps 28" - 24"? I imagine it would help with the string snapping problem. 
Anyone tried this?


----------



## Winspear

^ Certainly. Check it http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/162586-a4-beyond-thread.html

The basic 'rule' around here is that without Octave4Plus special strings, A is impossible on 25.5". It works sometimes but is pushing it and impractical. Needs 007 gauge from D'addario for example. 
If G or G# is ok on 25.5" (which is mine, and others, experience), then that would translate to 24.07" for G#/A. As the G# was still a bit tricky, I'd say go even shorter, so indeed 23.5" sounds like a great idea and is infact what I decided on for a 6 string tuned in 5ths for high A when I can afford it. 
Octave4Plus strings have a good reputation. Results vary but it seems they can certainly get that extra couple of semitones at worst.

I have a 9 string almost in completion which is 29.25-24.75 for high G#. Pretty big fan but carefully decided on. Wouldn't have gone as long if I weren't dropping the bass.


----------



## Vostre Roy

EtherealEntity said:


> I have a 9 string almost in completion which is 29.25-24.75 for high G#. Pretty big fan but carefully decided on. Wouldn't have gone as long if I weren't dropping the bass.


 
Big fan you say? Holy shit, I want to see it once its done.


----------



## Francis978

Dude, pictures when its done PLEASE!
10 strings is badass, but I have NO idea what I would do with such a guitar.


----------



## Winspear

Of course fellas  
http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/lu...0-vik-domineer-9-string-multiscale-build.html
http://vikguitars.com/en-us/forum/index.php?topic=66.0

Was originally shooting for a 5 inch fan but ended up going for the 4.5. I was not happy to go any shorter for Eb so that's how it went  Plenty of templating was done and I (and a few others here) think it will be perfectly comfortable. The nut looks perfectly ok to me - it's the bridge I am worried about most (though not much at all!)

The fan is 0.5625" per string, 3.37" on a 7 string or 5 inch on a 10 string. I'd certainly like to try a 10 with a 5" fan! That would make a tuning such as C#-A pretty good imo, though I think around 9 or 10 strings is where optimal scale length becomes impossible with the fanning. 30" doesn't seem ideal to me for a C#. I prefer thin strings and bright tone. I think someone here is having a 10 built that goes to 34" for G# or something.


----------



## WiseSplinter

^^ Oh god ... it hurts to look ... after seeing that domineer 9 i might be the first to die from GAS related injuries... and i'm only #40 on the list ... 

I assume from the 24.75 scale you're aiming for a stable A4? (thanks for this BTW http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/extended-range-guitars/162586-a4-beyond-thread.html)

All this 10 string talk (and that ViK 9) are really making me reconsider the specs i was shooting for, i thought a stable A4 was only a dream.


----------



## Winspear

High G#  I consider that perfectly safe - it's possible at 25.5" but I wouldn't feel comfortable (with normal strings. I don't want to rely on Octave4Plus)

Haha nope not a dream! I'd recommend 23.5 for A though, 24 at a push. I'd definitely go 23.5 or shorter if using normal strings and wanting to bend it or use a trem.

GAS is a terrible thing.


----------



## MF_Kitten

RV350ALSCYTHE said:


> If using it to cover guitar+bass range, which amplification would you require?
> I assume a standard guitar amp wouldn't be able to handle the added low end, but would a bassamp be able to sound decent for leads and high-gain?
> 
> I love playing guitar and bass and I'd consider one of these if it is able to produce the desired sound from each respective instrument. My 8 string is fun to play some basslines on but through my guitar amps/pickups it can't quite produce the warm deep bass sounds I personally enjoy playing.



both. I already have both. Use a bass amp that has all the highs and mids EQ'd out, so it handles the lows that the guitar amp doesn't put out.


----------



## Francis978

Makes me think of the Novax charlie hunter guitar, that thing is also Sexy XD


----------



## noise in my mind

seems like it would be a lot of fun to mess around on, or begin building a house with.


----------



## Explorer

Here's a great (but expensive) dual band compressor with a variable crossover point, and two output jacks, so you can compress the highs and lows differently, while also sending each through different effects and amps.

http://www.fealabs.com/products/DBOC-L-0001.html







$345 might seem a bit steep for some, but if one's instruments covers a lot of range (my full-fifths was from Bb0 to B6, my eventual 10-string will be from B0 to G6), then nothing else comes close.

----

And, although it's not as elegant, you can use the parametric EQs on the two channels of the POD X3 in the same way.

----

Sorry to add just a bit more, but I have a couple of products from [sfx], and just remembered that he also makes the X&M, a crossover and mixer. 

http://www.sfxsound.co.uk/mainpage.asp?page=xm


----------



## Hollowway

The other thing to consider about ERGs with that low note is that thinner strings with less tension are not going to sound the fundamental in the way a bass string would. So for the 11 string I'm speccing with Tom will have a D#0, but it's going to sound that note via the harmonics higher up in the series, so I'm just using a regular old guitar amp. FWIW my current 10, with a C#1 on a .090" at 30" sounds great through a guitar amp - and totally different than a B0 on my 5 string bass through a bass amp.


----------



## groovemasta

Gah I want, I love harps and this just oddly appeals to me but it's definitely a ridicule magnet and is a prime example of a 'my dick is bigger' thing.

EDIT - the harp thing wasn't a joke just for clarification, I really do enjoy them and just thinking of the chordal possibilities on this is crazy.


----------



## Ultraussie

Now those crazy 10 string bass player's have a guitar player with an equally rediculous instrument.

If I was given this instrument my hardest descision would be "How do I tune this thing?".
Lawwwwll.
Nice, but, do we really need 10 string guitars? 8 is about enough for me,


----------



## jarnozz

It´s like a freaking tree xD


----------



## JazzandMetal

Ultraussie said:


> Now those crazy 10 string bass player's have a guitar player with an equally rediculous instrument.
> 
> If I was given this instrument my hardest descision would be "How do I tune this thing?".
> Lawwwwll.
> Nice, but, do we really need 10 string guitars? 8 is about enough for me,



Do we really need six string guitars? Or 8 string guitars? Or electrics? Or music other than classical?


----------



## shawnperolis

I've been saving up to buy a 9 string so I can be all like  

But now that there is a 10 string I'll just be 

But for cereal, I'm stoked to see some vids of whoever buys this beautiful ERG.


----------



## Francis978

Would it really come tuned as a bass/guitar tuning? Or would it still be standard tuning if it was a 10 string o.o


----------



## RV350ALSCYTHE

MF_Kitten said:


> both. I already have both. Use a bass amp that has all the highs and mids EQ'd out, so it handles the lows that the guitar amp doesn't put out.



I've tried this before but never at such low tunings so I still have a concern about damaging a guitar amp when using standard or lower bass tunings on an ERG. 

Are you using something to prevent the low frequencies from reaching the guitar amp, while still allowing the signal to reach the bass amp?

Will the guitar amp be fine if the lows are EQ'd down?


----------



## Konfyouzd

guy in latvia said:


> I'm actually very curious how many *new *8 and 9 string guitars are purchased from Rondo directly. Would be interested to see how big the budget ERG market is. I mean it must be significant enough for them to justify making a 10 string...



Bought both my Agile 8s new.


----------



## Hollowway

RV350ALSCYTHE said:


> I've tried this before but never at such low tunings so I still have a concern about damaging a guitar amp when using standard or lower bass tunings on an ERG.
> 
> Are you using something to prevent the low frequencies from reaching the guitar amp, while still allowing the signal to reach the bass amp?
> 
> Will the guitar amp be fine if the lows are EQ'd down?



Should be fine with the low frequencies EQ'd down. The reason it's a concern is that guitar speakers generally have less (like 25%) of the excursion of bass speakers, so a really low frequency (which moves the cone more) will force the guitar speaker to move beyond what it can, and...well, you know the rest.

But plenty of people have played bass through guitar cabs regularly with no problems. And as I said in my earlier post, ERGs are generally not designed with bass strings and bass string tensions, and therefore are not going to sound those uber low fundamentals, so it's typically not an issue. Consider how low an 8 string guitar is, and how much of the bass guitar register it duplicates, but everyone plays them through traditional guitar amps. If you were going to tune this 10 string to G#0 and C#1, then it's more of a consideration because there's going to be more low frequencies, but it's still not anything that can't be dealt with pretty easily. IMO if you're playing an ERG you're going to use strings and EQ to get more mids and highs, since the bass is already there based on the note. But on an ERB you're going to do the opposite, even for the extra high strings, just to get it to sound more like a bass.


----------



## shawnperolis

There is a B Stock 10 string available now for only 800 bucks...

Agile Septor Pro 1030 EB CA Green Flame B Stock - RondoMusic.com

I'd buy it right now but I just don't think I can handle a 10 string. haha

edit: Sold in less than a day!


----------



## BrianUV777BK

Best thread title ever.


----------



## jon66

There's something about those headstocks... The more strings they have, the tastier they look!!!


----------



## yellow

do you think there will be an 11 string guitar coming out soon?


----------



## XEN

yellow said:


> do you think there will be an 11 string guitar coming out soon?


I've had a request for one with a Kahler, but tooling the new trem alone would cost more than that Agile 10.


----------



## Cremated

yellow said:


> do you think there will be an 11 string guitar coming out soon?


 
I used to have a 12 string.


----------



## crg123

so who bought it??? kurt said its sold now when i asked to see pictures of the damage


----------



## ixlramp

urklvt said:


> On the XENs I'm sticking with a 27-30" fan, tuned BEADGCFADG.


XEN STRINGED INSTRUMENTS
OMG i've just discovered your site .. the designs are amazing .. and you offer a 7 in fifths that is so cool 
Certainly some of the most impressive ERG designs i have seen.


----------



## XEN

ixlramp said:


> XEN STRINGED INSTRUMENTS
> OMG i've just discovered your site .. the designs are amazing .. and you offer a 7 in fifths that is so cool
> Certainly some of the most impressive ERG designs i have seen.


Thanks man! Good things are happening.


----------



## yellow

so an 11 string is not probable then? or cuz its kahler? what if it was hard tail/string thru?


----------



## Hollowway

yellow said:


> so an 11 string is not probable then? or cuz its kahler? what if it was hard tail/string thru?



11 string is possible. Adam on here made one. For standard tuning (i.e. 4ths) the limit seems to be 12 strings, as there are a number of threads on a few sites indicating no one has successfully done a 13 string due to the requirement of string tension, string thickness and fanning having to be pretty extreme to pull that off. 

(Not sure if you were seriously asking the question about that or being tongue-in-cheek, but I figured I'd answer just in case.)


----------



## Thags

Hi Guys, my first ever SS post. 

I am the mysterious purchaser of the B stock 10 string, its currently on its way to oz and should be with me in about 2 weeks. Will post more information on it once it arrives. I will be using this instrument almost exclusively for two handed tapping and will probably keep it in the factory tuning (or potentially tune the 'Bass' strings down to BEAD, strings permitting). I was waiting on the next round of Agile customs to get the same guitar with a 27"-30" fan but this one was just cheap enough to beat customs duties and therefore save me a whole bunch on top of what I saved from it being B stock. I'm absolutely stoked, look forward to talking to you guys more in the future.

Rock


----------



## yellow

> 11 string is possible. Adam on here made one. For standard tuning (i.e. 4ths) the limit seems to be 12 strings, as there are a number of threads on a few sites indicating no one has successfully done a 13 string due to the requirement of string tension, string thickness and fanning having to be pretty extreme to pull that off.


 
thats kinda what i wanted to know. so 12 string is the limit then? do you think then, agile willl make 11 and 12 string guitars? or will they rest at 10? im curious to see what u think as far as where or how far the erg string count or number might go .


----------



## XEN

yellow said:


> thats kinda what i wanted to know. so 12 string is the limit then? do you think then, agile willl make 11 and 12 string guitars? or will they rest at 10? im curious to see what u think as far as where or how far the erg string count or number might go .


10 is probably the limit for Agile, but for customs 11 is feasible, and, depending on the tuning, 12+ is also possible.


----------



## yellow

12+? i thought the post said 13 was a problem because of consturction, tnesion, fanning? how high could they possibly go? whats the limit?


----------



## Winspear

I don't know shit about building but I can't see why tension would be a problem. Look at chapman sticks. As long as the neck is reinforced. 

If talking about playable string tension with relation to tuning then I can understand. That said people like Yves Carbonne (12) are using strings all the way from 008 to 270! So..

Fanning I don't know but I'd imagine about 5-6 inches or more would be comfortable on a 13 string. Many (myself included) would say that neither the high or low would be ideal with such a small fan for a huge pitch range, but then again there's people like Yves going from F# above guitar high E, to I believe G# 2 octaves below bass low B, and sounding absolutely great on a single scale length.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

If there is one thing Agile has shown us, it's that if someone is willing to pay for it, they'll do just about anything, including adding more strings than there are stars in the sky. While I don't see them doing a 10, 11, or 12 string (un-coursed of course ) on a production basis anytime soon, going off of how lukewarm the sales on the 9-strings were/are, but it'll probably come up on the order forms for the customs as long as people still show a certain amount of interest. Since they're already making their own pickups and hardware, the two biggest ERG/ERB barriers, anything is possible.



EtherealEntity said:


> Yves going from F# above guitar high E, to I believe G# 2 octaves below bass low B, and sounding absolutely great on a single scale length.



Keep in mind, most of Yves "Big Basses" are fretless, has custom strings made (not just gauges, but the string construction itself), and plays in a certain musical context. 

Through that, he overcomes many of the obstacles that a single scale creates for certain music. He's tailored every part of the equation very specifically.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah I didn't mean that string tension was a problem in terms of the force it generates on the neck. More that you need a certain minimum tension to be able to play an instrument, and currently there aren't options for stuff up at .300, .400, etc. So in theory if you could get someone to make you a super fat flexible string you could tune down as far as you want. So 12 isn't the limit. Just the practical limit for the available strings and reasonable fans.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Yeah I didn't mean that string tension was a problem in terms of the force it generates on the neck. More that you need a certain minimum tension to be able to play an instrument, and currently there aren't options for stuff up at .300, .400, etc. So in theory if you could get someone to make you a super fat flexible string you could tune down as far as you want. So 12 isn't the limit. Just the practical limit for the available strings and reasonable fans.



Though, what about a "stepped" multi-scale?

The same concept as the Kubicki Factor basses, and more recently the Strandberg "Baritone Hybrid" construction.

I know Hugh Manson built a 15 string in 92' with that concept. The instrument (a flying V none the less ) was a 6-string bass, 6-string guitar, and then additional high A, D, and G strings. The lowest string has it's own scale, the next four had their own, the next seven had their own, the next two had their own scale, and finally the highest string had it's own scale. The strings has individual headless bridge pieces, and the fretboard just terminated at the end of each scale. 

For the life of me I can't find a picture of the thing, but I'll keep looking. I know I have a picture in a book I own, so if I can't find a pic on the web I'll just scan it.

EDIT: Found a shitty, small pic, but will still keep looking.


----------



## The Uncreator

Small but its the only one I know


----------



## Konfyouzd

yellow said:


> so an 11 string is not probable then? or cuz its kahler? what if it was hard tail/string thru?



EDIT: Nvm


----------



## MaxOfMetal

BAM!






Cuz I  you guys.

This was in the book "The Illustrated Directory of Guitars" by Barnes and Noble Books, edited by Ray Bonds. It's a small, very informative read. The later sections are pretty out of date at this point, and it's far from overly comprehensive, but it's great for those looking for info on the REALLY early (1300's) days of the guitar, even leading through to the 30's and 40's.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Those talking ab string tension needs on 10+ strings, what kind of tunings are we talking ab? I feel like w that many strings you can do some interesting stuff w/o having to go super low or super high.


----------



## Winspear

^ Very fucking awesome. However, I can't imagine how damn confusing that would be to play. The Standberg concept of open dropped / fretted standard is enough to grasp for me


----------



## MaxOfMetal

EtherealEntity said:


> ^ Very fucking awesome. However, I can't imagine how damn confusing that would be to play. The Standberg concept of open dropped / fretted standard is enough to grasp for me



It comes with the territory.


----------



## Hollowway

Yeah, so how would that 15 string thing work, physics-wise? Like, let's say you had a high A string. If you terminated it at the 12 fret, so you were only dealing with 12th fret to bridge, would the tension be the same as a regular A4 capoed at the 12th fret? Because if that were the case the termination of the fretboard at different lengths wouldn't necessarily allow higher tuning. And for the lower one you'd get the extra notes from the extension, so I guess in theory you could lengthen the crap out of it. But you'd still run into the same issue with adding a lower pitched string, I would think.


----------



## littledoc

Wouldn't amplification of a ten-string be kind of complicated? If this is a hybrid bass/guitar.... wouldn't those low strings sound like butt through a standard guitar amp?


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

littledoc said:


> Wouldn't amplification of a ten-string be kind of complicated? If this is a hybrid bass/guitar.... wouldn't those low strings sound like butt through a standard guitar amp?



What some people do for ERG/ERB's is make multiple outs, so the low strings would have their own out and the middle ones and the high ones or something like that. Not sure about the Agile though.


----------



## MaxOfMetal

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, so how would that 15 string thing work, physics-wise? Like, let's say you had a high A string. If you terminated it at the 12 fret, so you were only dealing with 12th fret to bridge, would the tension be the same as a regular A4 capoed at the 12th fret? Because if that were the case the termination of the fretboard at different lengths wouldn't necessarily allow higher tuning. And for the lower one you'd get the extra notes from the extension, so I guess in theory you could lengthen the crap out of it. But you'd still run into the same issue with adding a lower pitched string, I would think.



I think you're missing the concept. 

You're giving each string (or sets of strings) it's own scale. That scale on the bottom is I believe just 18", so it's pretty easy to tune up to A4 on a 18" scale with a traditional string. 

What you run into, is the the scales aren't "lined up" to give a traditional tuning when going from high to low. Only the open notes are in a traditional tuning layout. 

You're not capo'ing the scale, your actually setting it.


----------



## yellow

wow that things odd. never heard of or seen it before. i wonder how its played, i mean its tapping right? it cant be fretted with usual under the neck fingering (no pun intended) right?


----------



## bob123

While I think its absolutely retarded, the thread title pretty much lets me know where my opinion stands!


----------



## Hollowway

MaxOfMetal said:


> I think you're missing the concept.
> 
> You're giving each string (or sets of strings) it's own scale. That scale on the bottom is I believe just 18", so it's pretty easy to tune up to A4 on a 18" scale with a traditional string.
> 
> What you run into, is the the scales aren't "lined up" to give a traditional tuning when going from high to low. Only the open notes are in a traditional tuning layout.
> 
> You're not capo'ing the scale, your actually setting it.



Ah, OK. So the A4 string would still sound A5 at the 12th fret? Because if that's the case the tension would be the same, since you'd have to tune it to higher than A4 to keep the notes the same as whatever frets they are. But I think I get what you're saying - they are just starting on another length. In that theory you could add multiple higher strings, but then you're just playing higher up. I can see why it never took off!


----------



## Winspear

^ The A4 string would sound A5 on ITS 12 fret..but not the 12th fret of the guitar where it starts, yeah. 

It's easy enough to understand the concept looking at the strandbergs:
The top 7 strings start at the 2nd fret, and they are tuned to open EBEADGBE for example. 
So you have the range of drop E, but you can fret standard powerchord shapes (as your open powerchord is effectively 022 even though you aren't fretting anything).

I can't imagine playing an instrument that makes the concept even more confusing than that  Aside from having the open strings at that pitch, I don't see why they didn't just make the string start at the nut, and tune it lower.


----------



## Hollowway

EtherealEntity said:


> ^ The A4 string would sound A5 on ITS 12 fret..but not the 12th fret of the guitar where it starts, yeah.



Yeah, that's the part I missed, conceptually. And yeah, that would be a BEAR to play, with everything not lining up.


----------



## ixlramp

13 string ERB is possible fanned 30" to 36", 1/2" increase per string, tuned standard G#C#F# BEADGCF BbEbAb from G#00 13Hz. Gauges .270 to .007p. Octave4Plus strings sell .007s that do F#4 on 34" = Ab4 on 30".
There are currently 8 (rough guess) 12 string ERBs, half of which are fanned. Few people find the G#00 string useful (but Skip does and is going lower).


----------



## Hollowway

ixlramp said:


> Few people find the G#00 string useful (but Skip does and is going lower).



Yes, but at least it's playable. That .007" F#4 at 34" string has printed right there on the package, "WARNING: If you touch, look at, or even think about this string it will break.". 

The other thing is if you tune the guitar up to guitar tension (say, 16 lbs) and not bass tension could you hit a lower note at a longer scale? Because then you could forego the Ab4 and add something else lower and longer. I don't have a string tension calc handy to measure it on since I'm on my phone (not that they work at that pitch anyway).


----------



## Thags

Hello Again All

The B Stock 10 string is now with me. I'm really impressed with the quality, dent is imperceptible (At least to me). The tension on the guitar strings doesn't feel like much of an issue to me, even on the E4 it doesn't feel stiff to me (Please note this is my first guitar up until now i have done all my double tapping on a 5 string Warwick Corvette NT) Tonally its as you would expect quite snappy but I am really enjoying it for my purposes. Tension on the 4 bass strings is actually tighter than I have my short scale Hagstrom bass except for the low E which is a bit floppy, Given this I doubt i will try tuning it any lower but might replace the .105 string it came with. A .120 if I can fit it through the string hole. Absolutely perfect tapping instrument, and the close string spacing (Compared to my bass) opens up quite a few more chord shapes (Most of which I'm currently unaware of no doubt). Happy to field any questions anyone has about the instrument.

Rock


----------



## Hollowway

Anything else wrong with it? Sometimes the guitars listed as B stock were actually returned for a reason other than the one listed.


----------



## Thags

Not that I can tell been playing it for a few hours now with no problems, I will need to do a set up tweak the action slightly but nothing serious. The dent is there if you look closely its just that its finished over and has a very similar look to the natural markings of the wood. Tone difference between the bass and guitar sides is fairly distinct too due to the string gauges used.


----------



## F0rte

Dat fucking bridge.


----------



## ixlramp

Hollowway said:


> The other thing is if you tune the guitar up to guitar tension (say, 16 lbs) and not bass tension could you hit a lower note at a longer scale?


Yeah but i find big strings can suffer below 25 pounds, and 30 is preferable. Try detuning a bass B string down to F# to half it's tension. Massive strings need a reasonable tension to support vibration, avoid excessive flop or sag under gravity. O4P sell a .181 C#0 string = roughly 22 pounds, i guess this is roughly the limit, that's the lightest subcontra string i know of.

User 'Thonk' of ther former subcontrabassist forum developed a .330 or so G#00 string, that could be detuned quite a bit, so i guess 14 string is possible too. The insanely extreme strings now exist for as low and high (delicate) as is practical.

It's possible Garry also experimented with gauges of .004 and .003 they were mentioned at the site. These of course would be too delicate to sell publicly. As far as steel goes Garry pushed the envelope to the limit. So now we need titanium, carbon nanotubes and laser pickups etc.


----------



## Hollowway

^ yeah but I thought guitar and bass strings were tuned to different tensions because of the tension they were made at. i.e. a .090" guitar string would be designed for 15-17 lbs. tension but a bass .090 would debs designed for 30lbs and higher. Is that not the case?


----------



## ixlramp

I dunno  but it seems to me that a subcontra guitar string with it's smaller core and more flexibility would have even more flop and suffer more at low tensions. A pity the real experts rarely post here (Garry, Skip etc.).


----------



## Hollowway

ixlramp said:


> I dunno  but it seems to me that a subcontra guitar string with it's smaller core and more flexibility would have even more flop and suffer more at low tensions. A pity the real experts rarely post here (Garry, Skip etc.).



Yeah I asked Skip that. His philosophy is that longer scale is better (which differs from Garry) and he likes to do a thinner core and more wraps to increase flexibility and decrease inharmonicity. I had that one thread in the bass section asking why not use guitar strings to get lower and everyone said that you can't achieve the fundamental, and that the tensions were different. I asked Skip and he said that his guitar and bass strings are interchangeable, and that the more flexible the better. But it's a question I've been wondering about because I'm planning this D#0 - E4 30-36" build, so I really need to work out what that low string is going to sound like.


----------



## ixlramp

ixlramp said:


> seems to me that a subcontra guitar string with it's smaller core and more flexibility would have even more flop and suffer more at low tensions.


... to clarify i'm not saying flexibility is a bad thing, like Skip i think it should always be maximised for clarity and harmonicity. I'm just saying that having a .180 built as a guitar string (as opposed to a bass string) won't avoid the inherent problems of using such a massive string at a low (16-20 pound) tension ... it won't allow you to use it at a lower tension.

There are sound samples of a .181 tuned to C#0 and E0 at the O4P site, that will give you a rough idea of the sound, although keep in mind the recorded string may not have the thinnest core option so you may be able to get a slightly brighter, clearer sound than this, especially with a super flexy CK string.

A D#0 string will sound dark ... and low  there's no escaping the darkness of such a thick string, however you should of course maximise flexibility, which will help to make it a just a little brighter, clearer and more harmonic. So with O4P choose the rubberband core option (thinnest core). Circle Ks are apparently super flexy so their standard strings seem ideal for you, you could even experiment with gauges down to .158 (20 pounds) and play with a light touch.

If you want more of a brighter, guitar type tone the only way is to increase scale and decrease gauge:


----------



## Hollowway

ixlramp said:


> ... to clarify i'm not saying flexibility is a bad thing, like Skip i think it should always be maximised for clarity and harmonicity. I'm just saying that having a .180 built as a guitar string (as opposed to a bass string) won't avoid the inherent problems of using such a massive string at a low (16-20 pound) tension ... it won't allow you to use it at a lower tension.
> 
> 
> If you want more of a brighter, guitar type tone the only way is to increase scale and decrease gauge:




 Now I feel better about my 36" guitar! 

Thanks for the info. Yeah, it looks like I can't do much but keep the tension up and increase the scale length as long as is reasonable. I'm simply an idiot for wanting a D#0 and E4 on the same guitar, but I wants what I wants, so I'll have to deal with it.


----------



## The Uncreator

36"? Man Id like to see pics of that. I've played a 30" and that was an enlightening experience.


----------



## Hollowway

The Uncreator said:


> 36"? Man Id like to see pics of that. I've played a 30" and that was an enlightening experience.



Yeah, it's actually 30-36". Definitely going to be a unique instrument.


----------



## SammyKillChambers

Whilst the level of intrigue for a 10 string is huge, there are 2 things that hold me back:

1) I wouldn't know where to start tuning wise XD
2) There isn't a fan on this. Strictly speaking, I'd probably string it as an 8 string with an extra high and low string. Trying to string a high on a 30" scale is pretty cray.

Would like to try one of these some day though!


----------



## Konfyouzd

littledoc said:


> Wouldn't amplification of a ten-string be kind of complicated? If this is a hybrid bass/guitar.... wouldn't those low strings sound like butt through a standard guitar amp?



Maybe but I don't own a bass amp and my bass sounds fine through a guitar amp. I've even been complimented on my bass tone. 

Regardless of how "wrong" it looks on paper, mission accomplished.


----------



## shawnperolis

Konfyouzd said:


> Maybe but I don't own a bass amp and my bass sounds fine through a guitar amp. I've even been complimented on my bass tone.
> 
> Regardless of how "wrong" it looks on paper, mission accomplished.



Stick it to the man!


----------



## schecter4life

Hollowway said:


> So the description says the widths at the nut, 12th fret and 24th frets are 2.5", _*3.5", 3.5"*_
> And on the 9 string Septor it's 2.5", 3 1/8", 3 3/8"
> 
> So did Kurt keep the same nut width and just for for slightly narrower string spacing at the nut? It's not an unusual thing to do on an instrument with that many strings. And I don't think it's a typo (like, pasted but not edited from the 9 string description). I think I'll email Kurt...


well, that HAS to be a typo, if its wider at the 12th fret than the nut, the 24th fret HAS to be wider than the 12th, unless hes magic and the strings stop spreading apart at the 12th fret

lol it was a typo..heres the correct widths: Width 2 3/4&#8221; at the nut 3 7/16" at the 12th fret and 3 3/4" at the 24th fret. so in other words...its a harp with a fretboard and high output pickups


----------



## Tsmith678

I would find this idea to be awesome, and then I think of all the dumbass kids who will just keep going lower from a standard 6 and chug on the low 10th


----------



## Valennic

Tsmith678 said:


> I would find this idea to be awesome, and then I think of all the dumbass kids who will just keep going lower from a standard 6 and chug on the low 10th



Just means better prices for us when they go up used.


----------



## MannyMoonjava

I wish I was rich..


----------



## Jason Spell

There are certainly a lot of possibilities for this. I'm not a fan of the factory tuning, but I think there could be a lot of neat ideas done on this guitar.


----------



## Konfyouzd

shawnperolis said:


> Stick it to the man!



Not stickin it to anyone. Some ppl overthink shit.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

MannyMoonjava said:


> I wish I was rich..



Its like 1000 bucks man


----------



## Konfyouzd

Everyone's financial situation and/or perspective (sometimes as a result of aforementioned financial situation) is different.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Konfyouzd said:


> Everyone's financial situation and/or perspective (sometimes as a result of aforementioned financial situation) is different.



Yeah but you know what I meant. I mean how cheap could you possible expect a 10 string guitar to get? I think its pretty crazy agile even sells fanned instruments for like 600-800 bucks whereas Ibanez is still charging like 1200 for something that comes with shit pickups.


----------



## Konfyouzd

Fair enough. Hadn't considered all that.


----------



## shawnperolis

Stealthdjentstic said:


> Yeah but you know what I meant. I mean how cheap could you possible expect a 10 string guitar to get? I think its pretty crazy agile even sells fanned instruments for like 600-800 bucks whereas Ibanez is still charging like 1200 for something that comes with shit pickups.



Oh yeah, it's a cheap guitar. I don't think anyone is complaining about the price for such a magnificent instrument... But being able to drop a grand on an instrument just for shits and giggles is something I can't justify... and I'm not really even in a bad financial situation.


----------



## Stealthdjentstic

Yeah for sure, I didn't mean it that way.


----------



## ThePhilosopher

For smaller tuning increment play, that's why - now to find string gauges for: Db-E-G-Bb-Db-E-G-Bb-Db-E


----------



## Scott Fernandez

ixlramp said:


> This guitar is ideal for tuning in 3.5 semitone neutral thirds, allowing quartertones (24 equal steps per octave) to be played. Here's the details: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/music-theory-lessons-techniques/161530-retune-play-quartertone-scales-microtonal-beginners-guide.html
> With a slight retuning to alternating Just Intonation major and minor thirds (3.86 and 3.16 semitones), Just Intonation can be played, here's the relevant post in that thread: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/2530509-post6.html .. and of course you could always retune to 12ET alternating major and minor thirds.
> 
> Don't be put off by Agile's bizarre tuning for this, i'm assuming they realise that anyone who buys this will very probably have their own tuning in mind and will immediately replace the strings with their own custom set .. a customer wouldn't want to waste money on expensive stock strings. For this reason i'd be happy even if it were strung F#F#F#BEADGBE.
> 
> Member Scott Fernandez' avatar states it perfectly (hope Scott doesn't mind):




I never mind =) Thank you for being so awesome. 


I could give a shit how an instrument is tuned, so long as the person using it is taking the instrument to it's full potential. 
Don't buy it to be cool.
Don't buy it to brag.
Do yourself and your instrument justice by attempting to take it to the limits of it's capabilities =)


----------



## TTWC Ben

What would "standard" tuning be on a 10?


----------



## XBetrayedX

If it had like a 5 inch fan (22-27) and was tuned F#,B,E,A,D,G,B,E,A,D or something similar. I'd go for it.


----------



## TTWC Ben




----------



## XEN

XBetrayedX said:


> If it had like a 5 inch fan (22-27) and was tuned F#,B,E,A,D,G,B,E,A,D or something similar. I'd go for it.


I hope you have the hands for something like that.
http://www.ericjlovett.com/images/22-27.jpg
Your fingers have to extend about 3/8" to 1/2" further on a 5" fan than on a 3".


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## Konfyouzd

TTWC Ben said:


> What would "standard" tuning be on a 10?



Tune it like a lute in the appropriate octave(s) 

When you're talking 10 strings you typically aren't worried about "standard" tuning anymore I'm sure.


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## FatKol

Way too much for me. 8 strings are enough. I can't see the advantage of 9 or 10 string guitars...
You need hands like a grizzly bear to play this monster.


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## Konfyouzd

You could have 4 bass strings and tune the top 6 to an open tuning to fingerpick a riff while tapping a bassline... 

Sounds intense but doable. Epic muting.


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## Hollowway

XBetrayedX said:


> If it had like a 5 inch fan (22-27) and was tuned F#,B,E,A,D,G,B,E,A,D or something similar. I'd go for it.



D5? Has that ever been done before? I'm wondering if that's possible at 22".


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## iron blast

This sounds interesting indeed.


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## axxessdenied

MannyMoonjava said:


> I wish I was rich..


Guitars are cheap as hell compared to some musical instruments


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## Fiction

Hollowway said:


> D5? Has that ever been done before? I'm wondering if that's possible at 22".



Octave Mandolin are normally in E4 - 22.5" (20-23" but the example I found was 22.5") with a 0.12 gauged string.



> len 22.5"
> 
> E4 .012" PL == 18.18#
> 
> ==
> 
> len 22"
> 
> D5 .007" PL == 18.77#



Could be done I suppose, but that's using generic D'addario tension, but I was checking some mandolin forums and they linked the Bangzero app for calculating tension so I just went with it


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## XBetrayedX

Hollowway said:


> D5? Has that ever been done before? I'm wondering if that's possible at 22".



haha i was actually wondering that too as i typed that but if it is possible. I say go for it. lol. It would make more sense (to me) instead of either going lower than an F# or tuning the lower 4 strings like a bass guitar. because i mean, That is still in the same rage as an 8 string guitar. Tune a whole step lower and you are on the same E as the lower E on a bass.


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## Winspear

A 007 gauge plain steel isn't gonna hold 18lbs of tension. 14lbs is about the limit. 19 inches  That's about the same tension as A4 25.5
Of course there's O4P but I've never tried those.


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## benatat

HAH! I look at my six strings with disdain now...


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## Onegunsolution

I think Kurts both bored and knows for a fact someone somewhere will buy it


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## Buckett

Just kicked the bass player from my band. I'm just gonna buy this and play both guitar and bass


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## HeHasTheJazzHands

Guess what's back? 

Agile Septor Pro 1030 EB CA Lizardburst Flame - RondoMusic.com


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## Cremated

Damn a .105 for E at 30'' scale length?


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## TemjinStrife

Cremated said:


> Damn a .105 for E at 30'' scale length?



That's pretty big, even for a Bass VI. Should give you a reasonable amount of tension.


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## Brill

Whys it back again?


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## Winspear

Niiiice, but I still can't understand why they don't fan it given that they fan 6 strings!!!
+1 to the earlier 5" fan comment, do want  I would totally dig a 29-24 to tune to C# standard with a high A. Cool thing is my 9 is practically there already being drop tuned haha, D# to G#.


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## carcass

so it is really back, nice!! I was worried that it was discontinued or something ... anyways, everytime i look on this guitar chapman stick or warr guitars immediately pop up in my mind, wish it had two separated outputs, so it can be plugged into two amps like warr guitars


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## MaxOfMetal

EtherealEntity said:


> I still can't understand why they don't fan it



This was originally ordered via the semi-custom shop, the original buyer didn't request a fan. It may be a reason why it keeps being returned, or it's just a dud build wise.


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## Cremated

TemjinStrife said:


> That's pretty big, even for a Bass VI. Should give you a reasonable amount of tension.




That's huge for a 30'' scale.


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## XEN

That 0.105" would be good for BEADGCFADG.


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## Alexis

Just looking at 9-strings or more get's me immediately tendonitis


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## jonajon91

ehem
Agile Pendulum Elite 102730 EB CA Ocean Burst - RondoMusic.com


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## fabeau

jonajon91 said:


> ehem
> Agile Pendulum Elite 102730 EB CA Ocean Burst - RondoMusic.com



http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...884-inside-guitar-porn-10-string-30-27-a.html


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## Ryan Duke

jonajon91 said:


> ehem
> Agile Pendulum Elite 102730 EB CA Ocean Burst - RondoMusic.com



Oh yes! This is ridiculous.


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## Bretton

TemjinStrife said:


> That's pretty big, even for a Bass VI. Should give you a reasonable amount of tension.



the average bass has a 34" scale with a .105 for E1. Shorten that by 4 inches and it'll be significantly looser. Not too bad for guitars, but for a Bass VI, anything under .130 would be too small.


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## chris9

just ordered a one of these in purple with binding gonna be doing some insane string skipping ha ha


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## Hollowway

chris9 said:


> just ordered a one of these in purple with binding gonna be doing some insane string skipping ha ha



Specs?


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## vansinn

Now I know what to use such a monster for: Extended range slide playing in open tuning, with some strings in major, some in minor, and a couple as augmented


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## chris9

Hollowway said:


> Specs?



Rosewood finger board with dot inlays
Tribal Purple with white binding
fixed bridge
30"scale
Passive pickups
black Hardware

due in october
i,ll make lots of videos some tapping and slapping and off course some shred
1st job to get 10 string skips down ha


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## MannyMoonjava

axxessdenied said:


> Guitars are cheap as hell compared to some musical instruments


Yeah im aware of that, but...
Guess im poor 

Edit: I live in Norway, tax and tolls make buying from another country almost painful. My Agile which cost around 1150$ in the US landed on a total price of 1800$ here.. but i digress. Love seeing agile make this happen though!


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## gordon_mlz

Haha thats fucking insane


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