# Engl Powerball 2 vs Invader 2 for death metal



## Infernal_Death (Jul 31, 2016)

Hi all

Somehow i am in the mood to buy a new amp. I mainly play a Überschall and a Rectifier and i still love those two amps, i just look for something different.

Heard so much good stuff about Engl amp over the years so i finally really considering adding one to my stable.
I am mainly interested in this tight Engl sound so many people talking about.

Looking through the Engl site, right now the Powerball 2 and the Invader 2 are looking to be the obvious choices.
So anybody have them and could comment on the usefullness of them in terms of a brutal death metal sound ? The Überschall still will be my main amp, but i like something else to play with. Also Engls are said to be nice recording amps (because of their tightness) so this also adds to the decision to look into the Engl direction.
Any other Engl amp i might want to look at considering my sound choice ?

I will try to test drive them in a music store, i just like to get some directions at which amps i should focus my attention. 
The powerball of course is quite a bit cheaper but the budget is also enough for the Invader 2. Also the wizard module for the Invader 2 sound very intriguing.

So i am helpful for any hints or comments about which Engl amp might be the best choice for a tight and brutal death metal sound. Both engls seem to be quite versatile ( 4channels and all the modes) which is a nice change from the Überschall and Rectifier (it's the old 2 channel version) 

Cheers

Flo


----------



## Zeriton (Jul 31, 2016)

Any of the 100watt ENGL's should do that sound fine (well, maybe not things like the retro). Owned various ENGLs myself and can confirm.

Owned a Powerball which did the techy side of death metal brilliantly but may not be so "fizzy" for brutal. Own an Invader now and love it. Much raw'er sound.

I would look into the Blackmore or Fireball as well. If you're not desperately after a clean channel they would do it.

Oh and the Savage. Because it's awesome.


----------



## oracles (Jul 31, 2016)

Skip the Powerball, go straight to the Invader or Savage.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Jul 31, 2016)

Between those two, go for the PBII. Better suited for death metal. The Invader II is a jack of all trades, but master of none sort of an amp. Works great if you're in a cover band, not so much for straight up death metal. Savage 120 is another killer option, but speed, power, thrash metal are its strong suits. More of the biting upper mid-voicing going on.


----------



## Jaek-Chi (Jul 31, 2016)

oracles said:


> Skip the Powerball, go straight to the Invader or Savage.



SO MUCH YES! Dude either the Invader or the Savage. In terms of 'brutal death metal tone' they are both incredible. Invader is a little more bass heavy, where the savage has ever so slightly less, but is slightly tighter and punchier. I loved both, but the savage has stayed. I play almost only death metal, and it's by far my favourite amp i've ever had. I'd choose these over the PB.


----------



## Zeriton (Aug 1, 2016)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> The Invader II is a jack of all trades, but master of none sort of an amp.



I dunno if I'd go with that. It's certainly incredibly versatile but it definitely is a master in some regards. It masters the djent sound to a tee and all the other sounds are definitely able to be considered top in their class


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 1, 2016)

Zeriton said:


> I dunno if I'd go with that. It's certainly incredibly versatile but it definitely is a master in some regards. It masters the djent sound to a tee and all the other sounds are definitely able to be considered top in their class



I vastly prefer the tones of the Engl Special Edition over the Invader I or Invader II. It's a far meaner, more aggressive, and heavier tone all around. Also it's way more versatile. The Invader can sound too scooped and undefined at times. The Invader II is basically an upgraded PBII, with EL34s and a few tweaks. The preamp is the same 4 12AX7 layout and same power amp layout. More alike than not by design.

For straight up death metal, a Fireball 100 or PBII are hard to beat.


----------



## Infernal_Death (Aug 1, 2016)

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions so far.
Unfortunately all the stores in my area don't seem to stock the Savage so i am not sure if i can test it. Which seems to be a shame, some savage youtube clips sound really nice.

Anyway i definitely will test also the Powerball. But the Invader 2 also looks quite promising. The store i plan to test the amps have both in stock so it should be possible to test them both.

Cheers

Flo


----------



## jerm (Aug 1, 2016)

^The Powerball is a very compressed and dark sound.

Seeing as you have an Uberschall and Dual rect, this would be a downgrade IMO. 

In your position I would consider, REVV Generator, KSR, Archon, DV Mark Triple 6, Platinum Modded 5150, SLO-100, Hot Rod 100+, Decatone.


----------



## thrsher (Aug 1, 2016)

i suggest looking at the engl victor smolski sig, its a beefed up PB2 with a more natural gain chain and serious mid boost.


----------



## TMM (Aug 1, 2016)

thrsher said:


> i suggest looking at the engl victor smolski sig, its a beefed up PB2 with a more natural gain chain and serious mid boost.



+1 my fav of the ENGL line for brutal DM tone, by no small margin.


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Aug 1, 2016)

thrsher said:


> i suggest looking at the engl victor smolski sig, its a beefed up PB2 with a more natural gain chain and serious mid boost.



The Smolski Sig is another good option. I know it is a PBII with more gain... not sure if I'd call it more "natural sounding" though.


----------



## Cobhc221 (Aug 4, 2016)

sometimes changing out preamp tubes can help the invader breath better. i put 2 tung-sol 12ax7's in mine and it really opened it up a lot.


----------



## Carvinkook (Aug 5, 2016)

Thats a hell of a budget.. theres a savage special edition on reverb or ebay right now for like $1500. That should do what you want.

Forgot to mention I own an Invader 1 (for a 3rd time)and itll also do what you need at a fraction of the cost of the 2. PB2 is cool (had one for a minute),with less frills and a good option if you want a downgrade from the invader... IMO


----------



## Infernal_Death (Aug 14, 2016)

Again thanks for the all suggestions.
Anyway on friday it was amp testing / shopping day.
As already mentioned the store sadly didn't have a savage in stock so i couldn't test it.
I was able to test the Powerball 2, the Smolski Engl and the Invader 2. I brought my Jackson Warrior with Duncan Blackouts and my selfbuild 7String with Nazgul/Sentient pickups with me.

I started with the Powerball 2 which was at first really nice. Tested it with both guitars and thought it was really a good amp. Until i then plugged into the Invader 2. IMO much better, more full sounding and more punch. It was even more apparent when i switched back to the Powerball. Don't get me wrong, the Powerball is a good amp, to me the Invader 2 is just that much better. The Smolski was also pretty cool, liked it better than the Powerball but just not as good as the Invader. So when all was said and done, it was pretty clear to me that i will walk out of the door with the Invader 2.
They also had some Diezels there but i didn't want to test them as i was pretty set on an Engl amp, maybe Diezel the next time 

Anyway here is the new member of the amp family back at home:







Again thanks for all the suggestions, it helped a lot.

Cheers

Flo


----------



## Genotype (Sep 27, 2016)

Hi, how is this amp going for you? I'm trying to decide between this and the PBII also but I can't seem to find any decent metal examples online. Lots of feedback saying this amp is not for metal at all :/ I would love to try these out but i live in the desert : double :/ 

I was set on the PBII based on reputation, but the Invader II recorded demos were so much more convincing as a recording, and also I wanted the MIDI capabilities.

I play mostly black metal, grunge and progressive metal/heavy rock. Loved this demo of Blackmore signature as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lURsJPJ1v88

Will be running through Engl 4x12 Pro straight cab, with a MM Glacial Frost 7, Line 6 Helix :3


----------



## shred-o-holic (Sep 27, 2016)

Saw Dying Fetus back in May and he was using a Savage 120 sounded amazing live


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Sep 27, 2016)

Genotype said:


> Hi, how is this amp going for you? I'm trying to decide between this and the PBII also but I can't seem to find any decent metal examples online. Lots of feedback saying this amp is not for metal at all :/ I would love to try these out but i live in the desert : double :/
> 
> I was set on the PBII based on reputation, but the Invader II recorded demos were so much more convincing as a recording, and also I wanted the MIDI capabilities.
> 
> ...



If you need midi and can spend a little extra, get the Engl Special Edition. It's the best amp Engl makes. It's their flagship amp for a reason. I've owned/played all the Engls... Several times. Also there's a reason guys like: Necrophagist, Chris Broderick, Dying Fetus, Dimmu Borgir, use the SE. 

The Invader never struck me as the ideal metal amp. But to each their own.


----------



## Genotype (Sep 27, 2016)

shred-o-holic said:


> Saw Dying Fetus back in May and he was using a Savage 120 sounded amazing live



Savage 120 looks awesome as well it's so hard to choose  

Unfortunately I found the PBII at a real good price otherwise the Savage would have been in the final cut. 

The Invader II has the exact functionality i'm looking for, it's truckloads more in price but is it a high gain tone monster...


----------



## Genotype (Sep 27, 2016)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> The Invader never struck me as the ideal metal amp. But to each their own.



Exactly my thoughts, I would love the SE but where i live its going to be another 3k on top , it's out of the equation. 

I'm just wondering how much balls the Invader II has based on Infernal_Deaths thread and purchase.

I don't understand based on the demo reviews for the Invader II what could possibly entice a death metal guitarist to purchase this head above the other 2 renowned high gain amps he tried. 

Makes me think 'am I missing something here?' 

I love the tone demos of the invader but there are no good examples of definition in the lower end, harmonics, high gain chugging, sustain etc


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Sep 27, 2016)

Genotype said:


> Exactly my thoughts, I would love the SE but where i live its going to be another 3k on top , it's out of the equation.
> 
> I'm just wondering how much balls the Invader II has based on Infernal_Deaths thread and purchase.
> 
> ...



The Powerball II or Savage 120 would then be my recommendation. These are great metal amps. They deliver great, tight, high-gain tone in spades.

IIRC Engl sells a switching box that allows both the PBII and Savage 120 to be controlled via midi.

The price increase for the Invader is also crazy considering what it is... a modified PBII with EL34s and some separate eq pots for channel 2/3. Also it's just not as metal as the PBII or Savage IMHO.


----------



## Genotype (Sep 27, 2016)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> The Powerball II or Savage 120 would then be my recommendation. These are great metal amps. They deliver great, tight, high-gain tone in spades.
> 
> IIRC Engl sells a switching box that allows both the PBII and Savage 120 to be controlled via midi.
> 
> The price increase for the Invader is also crazy considering what it is... a modified PBII with EL34s and some separate eq pots for channel 2/3. Also it's just not as metal as the PBII or Savage IMHO.



Thanks for the good advice on the MIDI dude! 

Also, have you actually tested the Invader out in person? 

The Savage 120 is sounding more and more like what I want tone wise, the PB has the price and rep and the Invader is starting to go down the list.

The PBII and the Engl 4x12 Pro cab is already packed and ready to ship to me from my store. I just need to give the word to send it.

Savage - Super tone and rep, not much more to pay on the upgrade, easy functionality, punchy 

No built in MIDI

PBII : Awesome reputation and hardly ever parted with, awesome deal on price, the low end i'm looking for, ready to be sent

No built in MIDI, getting a good tone translated into recording sounds like a problem.

Invader - Great functionality, organic clean sound, heavy rock recordings and tone sound real good, versatile.

Expenive, not much feedback or buzz around this amp for brutal metal sounds so far.

Dang, my gut is saying Invader, my heart is now saying Savage and my head is saying PBII  lol


----------



## Genotype (Sep 27, 2016)

Also the price I pay for the upgrade to the Invader 2 could buy me a near new Blackmore Signature 100 with Z5 foot witch included.

So I would Have a PBII and a Blackmore which is essentially the same tech and sound as the Savage 120.

I'm leaning toward the original PBII purchase and getting the Blackmore as well now. 

Progress!


----------



## shred-o-holic (Sep 27, 2016)

Genotype said:


> Savage 120 looks awesome as well it's so hard to choose
> 
> Unfortunately I found the PBII at a real good price otherwise the Savage would have been in the final cut.
> 
> The Invader II has the exact functionality i'm looking for, it's truckloads more in price but is it a high gain tone monster...



I tried the Invader II last year at GC. They had a PB II in stock and to me I didn't see what the big deal was between the two. Both were great. 

I've owned the PB I, FB 60 and 100. I have played the PB II in stores about a dozen times I would estimate. Great amp.....the first ENGL I ever tried was a Savage 120....that amp floored me at the time...


----------



## Genotype (Sep 27, 2016)

shred-o-holic said:


> I tried the Invader II last year at GC. They had a PB II in stock and to me I didn't see what the big deal was between the two. Both were great.
> 
> I've owned the PB I, FB 60 and 100. I have played the PB II in stores about a dozen times I would estimate. Great amp.....the first ENGL I ever tried was a Savage 120....that amp floored me at the time...



Awesome feedback thank you, seems the Invader II only has a few other things going for it that don't justify the upgrade price. If Savage 120 and PBII both had builtin MIDI capabilities.

If you could choose between these three amps right now, which one would you get?


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Sep 27, 2016)

Genotype said:


> Also the price I pay for the upgrade to the Invader 2 could buy me a near new Blackmore Signature 100 with Z5 foot witch included.
> 
> So I would Have a PBII and a Blackmore which is essentially the same tech and sound as the Savage 120.
> 
> ...



That's what I would do.

And checkout the Engl Z-11 Midi switcher. I think that is the one you need.


----------



## Genotype (Sep 27, 2016)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> That's what I would do.
> 
> And checkout the Engl Z-11 Midi switcher. I think that is the one you need.



Yeah, my thinking as well, I was hoping to control everything from the Line 6 Helix with no mucking around but I suppose I can't have everything eh?


----------



## Genotype (Sep 27, 2016)

The prophecy has been fulfilled.

The Gods of Shred have bestowed upon me the mighty Engl Powerball II and the seductive Richie Blackmore Signature 100. 

May the gods have mercy upon my neighbours souls while my tone tears the flesh clean from their bones.


----------



## shred-o-holic (Sep 28, 2016)

Genotype said:


> Awesome feedback thank you, seems the Invader II only has a few other things going for it that don't justify the upgrade price. If Savage 120 and PBII both had builtin MIDI capabilities.
> 
> If you could choose between these three amps right now, which one would you get?



I would choose the Savage because of it's cutting mids capabilities. That's the one thing that I have learned over the years is the importance of mids over anything else. Low end is overrated with guitar as it is a midrange instrument and that is so self evident in any live mix. You have to be pronounced in the pocket between the bass and drums. The only ENGL that I wish I could try is the SE. But of the three you mention it's 1. Savage 120 2. PB II 3. Invader II. Just was not that blown away by the Invader II TBH.


----------



## shred-o-holic (Sep 28, 2016)

Genotype said:


> The prophecy has been fulfilled.
> 
> The Gods of Shred have bestowed upon me the mighty Engl Powerball II and the seductive Richie Blackmore Signature 100.
> 
> May the gods have mercy upon my neighbours souls while my tone tears the flesh clean from their bones.



Oh cool you have decided. Enjoy \m/


----------



## Wizard of Ozz (Sep 28, 2016)

Genotype said:


> The prophecy has been fulfilled.
> 
> The Gods of Shred have bestowed upon me the mighty Engl Powerball II and the seductive Richie Blackmore Signature 100.
> 
> May the gods have mercy upon my neighbours souls while my tone tears the flesh clean from their bones.



Congrats!

Get ready to unleash the fury.


----------



## Genotype (Sep 29, 2016)

shred-o-holic said:


> Oh cool you have decided. Enjoy \m/



Totally would have gone the Savage buddy except they are hard to get where I am, It's next on my list! cheers for the input, much appreciated!


----------



## Genotype (Sep 29, 2016)

Wizard of Ozz said:


> Congrats!
> 
> Get ready to unleash the fury.



Thanks for the help Wiz, Much appreciated!


----------

