# How not to sound like Meshuggah and do it well!



## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Sep 29, 2011)

With more and more djent bands emerging these days, I think metal heads and players are loosing sight of things. Obviously perspectives are different, depending if you are an actual guitar player, or just a listener. The point is; a lot of people reference Meshuggah as their main djent inspiration. But in my opinion, it seems that people are only doing that because Misha Mansoor has mentioned it. I think we can agree that Fredrik Thordendal and Meshuggah are 10 years ahead of their time and generally responsible for that signature sound we find in djent. But coming from a listeners perspective I think the djent movement is branching in two directions: A - starting to develop its own culture and scene and uniqueness in a progressive way that I think Fredrik intended on. I.e. Animals as Leaders, Periphery and the Human Abstract. B - staying stagnant, anti progressive and generally stale. Many deathcore or hardcore bands are merely including that same Mehuggah groove style breakdown that I think are slowing them down. I believe that the core scene is dead, much like punk and black metal. If they refuse to progressive or grow their roots into something more, then they'll be left in the dust. I.e. Whitechapel, the Acacia Strain and After the Burial. Now I understand if people like their nasty thrash or fast grindcore and brutal death, but if bands label them selves as progressive music, than why not do what they say the are doing?

Thoughts? Any good examples of some good (or bad) progressive metal/djent bands? Ideas on how to improve this new genre of metal or predict its future.

I think im part of this progressive movement, anyone else?


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## MikeH (Sep 29, 2011)

I've been really into Intervals lately. Aaron Marshall certainly knows how to make a unique song.

Intervals - BandPage | Facebook


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## Into Obsidian (Sep 29, 2011)

We still have CYNIC.


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## Sikthness (Sep 29, 2011)

How does THA have anything to do with 'djent'? djent bothers me cuz its stupid to name a genre after a sound in th first place. And furthermore, 99% of people seem to think the 'djent' noise has something to do 8 string guitars and plodding away on the low string. The problem is not any type of movement in music, the problem is too many seem to want to attach themselves to the new movement or trend and try to copy a specific sound, rather than finding their own unique sound. You mentioned bands like AAL and Periphery, both of which I'd consider progressive metal. They incorporate a wide variety of styles and influences to properly achieve their sound, and that's what attracts me to them. More bands need to realize they don't need to be boxed in and neatly defined by a genre.


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## datalore (Sep 29, 2011)

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> Thoughts? Any good examples of some good (or bad) progressive metal/djent bands? Ideas on how to improve this new genre of metal or predict its future.
> 
> I think im part of this progressive movement, anyone else?



Don't get so hung up on short-lived movements. Being on the cutting edge generally means being part of something that fickle music fans are going to forget about within 6 months. You're better off just playing and listening to whatever you like best.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 29, 2011)

100%

Djent really has come to describe a sort of sound unique to a few bands. Whether anyone likes it or not, it is becoming a genre that isn't just defined by the use of that sound.


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 29, 2011)

dragonblade629 said:


> 100%
> 
> Djent really has come to describe a sort of sound unique to a few bands. Whether anyone likes it or not, it is becoming a genre that isn't just defined by the use of that sound.


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## brutalwizard (Sep 29, 2011)

your own perspective on djent and progressive music seems very odd and jaded.

since when does the human abstract having some breakdowns mean they are progressive djent. they have always had breakdowns......

also after the burial, is progressive. listen to rareform?

PROGRESSIVE
Adjective: Happening or developing gradually or in stages; proceeding step by step. 


structurally its progressing

intro riff, breakdown, intro riff, RIFF 2 + sweep transition, different breakdown pattern, another different breakdown

with one repeat being in the intro riff, it is always moving foward and progressing......

and history repeats itself, so just like the 80's when shredding and guitar was a huge focus, djent/"prog" will die do to some new complete simple genre like grunge. it will emerge and find a way to make fenders and simple song structures a big deal again in 2023 (estimate).

so instead of worrying who is super prog, and i am proggy pants.

you should probably worry about finding your individual voice on your instrument and in music, and roll with it. 

EDIT 700th POST!!!


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 29, 2011)

Three breakdowns is progressive?


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 29, 2011)

The breakdowns progress into each other...


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## vampiregenocide (Sep 29, 2011)

The whole 'djent' movement is dying down now anyway. Only the big names (Chimp Spanner, Red Seas Fire, Tesseract, Monuments, Periphery etc) are the ones who are going to really last. The rest of the lesser known left are mostly carbon copies of the aforementioned bands. 

It's passed it's golden age, now we just need to wait for something new to come along. I personally think people are going to start looking for more 'feeling' in metal rather than technical progressive testosterone bullocks (Which I love if done well).


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 29, 2011)

It seems we are using different definitions of progressive, then. For me, progressive metal means that it's style is, well, progressive, changing, developing. The opposite of After the Burial.


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## brutalwizard (Sep 29, 2011)

dragonblade629 said:


> Three breakdowns is progressive?



structurally, there getting "heavier" building off each other and varying in dynamics. similar to that of 3 riffs, with one progressing into another, but with more CHUGZ. 

but i get what you mean


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 29, 2011)

Back to the 80s...?


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 29, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> The whole 'djent' movement is dying down now anyway. Only the big names (Chimp Spanner, Red Seas Fire, Tesseract, Monuments, Periphery etc) are the ones who are going to really last. The rest of the lesser known left are mostly carbon copies of the aforementioned bands.
> 
> It's passed it's golden age, now we just need to wait for something new to come along. I personally think people are going to start looking for more 'feeling' in metal rather than technical progressive testosterone bullocks (Which I love if done well).



Can the one or two years djent was popular really be called a Golden Age?


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## Demiurge (Sep 29, 2011)

Throwing around the word "djent" doesn't bother me as much as the word "progressive" getting bandied-about. 

All too often in metal, it's like eating a bad Mexican restaurant: there are 30 entrees on the menu, but they're all really varied permutations of the same 5 ingredients. A lot of what passes for "progressive" in metal is just another combination of the same established elements. It might taste good- but don't tell me I'm eating something new or different.


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## bhakan (Sep 29, 2011)

The "djent" scene was never even big, really. Here, everyone is jumping on the bandwagon, because this is a forum specifically for extended range instruments, and pretty much the "birthplace" of Periphery, but in the real world, there is not a single person I've talked who wouldn't look at me like I'm high if a said a band was "djent" and maybe one or two who have heard of animals as leaders or maybe periphery.


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## vampiregenocide (Sep 29, 2011)

dragonblade629 said:


> Can the one or two years djent was popular really be called a Golden Age?



Some flames don't burn for long. Djent was fun while it lasted. A lot of people put out really amazing albums and did their own thing with the sound, however many chose not to and simply copied other bands.

Another thing I have a problem with is what progressive means. Progressive seems to have come to be songs with lots of riffs that rarely repeat. I mean sure this is cool and all, but if you have a whole album that sounds like a collection of riffs what's progressive about that? It's technical metal, not progressive. Progressive metal has more variety in it; the songs are more individual and the bands push themselves. Porcupine Tree and Mastodon are two bands that while maintaining their own sound, always push it and try new things. Some songs may be a more traditional structure, but in terms of an album they are progressive because the band as a whole progresses with it's own style. It doesn't just throw flashy riffs together and call it a day. /rant.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 29, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Some flames don't burn for long. Djent was fun while it lasted. A lot of people put out really amazing albums and did their own thing with the sound, however many chose not to and simply copied other bands.
> 
> Another thing I have a problem with is what progressive means. Progressive seems to have come to be songs with lots of riffs that rarely repeat. I mean sure this is cool and all, but if you have a whole album that sounds like a collection of riffs what's progressive about that? It's technical metal, not progressive. Progressive metal has more variety in it; the songs are more individual and the bands push themselves. Porcupine Tree and Mastodon are two bands that while maintaining their own sound, always push it and try new things. Some songs may be a more traditional structure, but in terms of an album they are progressive because the band as a whole progresses with it's own style. It doesn't just throw flashy riffs together and call it a day. /rant.





You said what I was trying to say in a better, more detailed manner.

The problem with true progressive metal is that the fans aren't always as progressive as the band.


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## bhakan (Sep 29, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Some flames don't burn for long. Djent was fun while it lasted. A lot of people put out really amazing albums and did their own thing with the sound, however many chose not to and simply copied other bands.
> 
> Another thing I have a problem with is what progressive means. Progressive seems to have come to be songs with lots of riffs that rarely repeat. I mean sure this is cool and all, but if you have a whole album that sounds like a collection of riffs what's progressive about that? It's technical metal, not progressive. Progressive metal has more variety in it; the songs are more individual and the bands push themselves. Porcupine Tree and Mastodon are two bands that while maintaining their own sound, always push it and try new things. Some songs may be a more traditional structure, but in terms of an album they are progressive because the band as a whole progresses with it's own style. It doesn't just throw flashy riffs together and call it a day. /rant.


I agree to a point, but for me the gray area is when you have a band that is very influenced by a progressive band. If you have a band that sound a lot like dream theater, would they be progressive metal because they sound just like a progressive band (which is the point of genre's IMO, to find bands that sound like one another) or not since they dont progress past what dream theater did?


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 29, 2011)

^ I think genres sometimes only exist because certain bands conform to a certain motif. That motif being exactly what Ross described.


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## vampiregenocide (Sep 29, 2011)

bhakan said:


> I agree to a point, but for me the gray area is when you have a band that is very influenced by a progressive band. If you have a band that sound a lot like dream theater, would they be progressive metal because they sound just like a progressive band (which is the point of genre's IMO, to find bands that sound like one another) or not since they dont progress past what dream theater did?



Depends man. Progressive is as much of an approach as it is a genre. If you're copying a progressive band and not really taking the sound anywhere new, what's progressive about that? It's a funny one.


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## ChrisRushing (Sep 29, 2011)

I posted a very similar topic once trying to understand the motivation or drive to literally "Clone" an artist. "Djent" or whatever you want to call the one man band, DKFH, Line 6 combination. 
My favorite comment was something along the lines of "You can't start a new genre every time you start a band or write a song". 
I think Bhaken nailed it on the head. There really aren't all that many people that are even aware of the genre in day to day happenings.


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## vampiregenocide (Sep 29, 2011)

It has quite a substantial underground popularity here. Britain has a thriving djent/tech/prog metal scene at the moment, just a lot of them are copycat bandwagon kids.


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Sep 29, 2011)

The sound also seems to be getting a growing following in the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale area.


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## The Reverend (Sep 30, 2011)

I think djent as a word denoting a genre is a valid use of a word. You need to name something before you can talk about it, and there's certainly a lot of bands with a very specific sound, perhaps too many to constantly say, "A band utilizing Meshuggah-esque breakdowns and Periphery-style metalcore parts focusing on melody." 

I mean, if you hate genres or labeling things, I don't want to hear you say metal. You're only allowed to say music. To get more specific, you need to define everything about that band's sound to me.

Back OT, though, I don't see where the problem is in kids and bands in general progressing in their tastes (see what I did?). After all, you wouldn't have a lot of bands if it wasn't for all the musical predecessors before them, both popular and unpopular. Does it get repetitive? Yes. But constantly keep in mind that people who don't like metal and have no point of reference think ALL of it sounds the same. They could hear The Human Abstract, and then After The Burial, and not tell you the difference. In that sense, it's only repetitive to those who are either unfamiliar with it, or dislike it, thus unable to honestly create a good frame of reference.

I hate jazz. I fucking HATE IT. Outside of very broad differences, I can't tell the difference between one song or the other. Does that mean it sounds the same? No, it doesn't. It's one's perception of the genre that dictates what it sounds like to them. If I gave it a chance, I would be able to tell you all about the difference in various jazz musicians, even if I didn't like it. I would start noticing variations, subtle at first, and then something in my brain would shift, making those small variations seem huge in my head, to the point where they seem like glaring signs detailing what's going on.

As far as the future of metal, who knows. It's pretty ignorant to fantasize about what's going to develop. Djent came out of nowhere, right? I think the next big thing to hit will do the same.


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## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Sep 30, 2011)

Well I don't really think that djent in particular came out of nowhere. If you look at it's characteristics, its been around for a while. It's only been until the past few years that it's coming out of the oven so to speak. What I am getting at is that whether this new metal is progressive or not, metal will progress really far I think. In my opinion Meshuggah are large contributors, as underground as they may be. Metal will evolve and progress, the djent movement is a great example. Just like death metal today, you would never think that some band like Necrophagist or Hate Eternal came from some Hardcore punk band. So to speak, the progressive movement is moving.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Sep 30, 2011)

I think this is a really redundant thread


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## yingmin (Sep 30, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Depends man. Progressive is as much of an approach as it is a genre. If you're copying a progressive band and not really taking the sound anywhere new, what's progressive about that? It's a funny one.



That's why I draw a distinction between bands that are progressive, and bands that are merely "prog". Progressive is an idea, prog is a style. I once stumbled on a band looking through Craigslist classifieds that described itself as "progressive metal", so I checked them out. They had two songs posted, and I swear to God that if someone played those songs for me and told me they were outtakes from Tool's Undertow, I probably would have believed them. There are two problems with that: the first being that, as you said, there's nothing progressive about copying a band's sound, regardless of how progressive that band may have been in the first place; the other, that if you're going to copy any one band's sound and call yourself "progressive", Tool might not be the best choice.

It was this band, by the way.


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## Neptical (Sep 30, 2011)

Although a long time fan of Meshuggah, I'm not really following the whole 'djent' bandwagon thing. I don't really get it. If your taking a style or sound, it's suppose to evolve..instead it's getting watered down. Seems like the market is pretty saturated right now with these type of bands - same as it was with the 'screamo' scene. Another "hip today, gone tomorrow" trend. As a matter of fact, it just sounds like alot of the screamy kids just transitioned over into the latest fad.


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## gunch (Sep 30, 2011)

This thread is sort of redundant but there's a good disscussion going about what the true essence of being "progressive" really is.

In parallel to "djent" there is a really exciting branch off of new young prog bands.
Scale the Summit, Chon, Helix Nebula, Red Seas Fire, Piotrek Gruszka, Crossing the Event Horizon, all these bands have a unique and cool sound. Do some of these have "djent" characteristics? Maybe. But they've went beyond that and they sound better because of it.


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## DLG (Sep 30, 2011)

hi thread, I have a feeling we've met before


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 30, 2011)

Pretty much everything I write no matter what genre is inspired by Meshuggah. You probably can't hear the influence in a good 75% of it, but that's because I don't want to sound like Meshuggah, I just really like their approach. So therefore my way of thinking about music is where Meshuggah influence me, far moreso than actually to trying to sound like them.


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## linchpin (Sep 30, 2011)

The one good thing i like about the whole Djent thing is that there is more of a focus on rhythm rather than lead... which of course i approve.


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## DLG (Sep 30, 2011)

linchpin said:


> The one good thing i like about the whole Djent thing is that there is more of a focus on rhythm rather than lead... which of course i approve.



to me, the worst thing about djent is that there is more of a focus on tone and the equipment being used to play and record the music than the songs themselves.


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## linchpin (Sep 30, 2011)

DLG said:


> to me, the worst thing about djent is that there is more of a focus on tone and the equipment being used to play and record the music than the songs themselves.


Well, having a good tone is somewhat important... I'm sure you've heard the new Opeth  Virtually unlistenable due to horrid choice of tone.


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## DLG (Sep 30, 2011)

linchpin said:


> Well, having a good tone is somewhat important... I'm sure you've heard the new Opeth  Virtually unlistenable due to horrid choice of tone.



tone is a very subjective thing. Opeth's tone on the new album is actually great, because it's intentional. they recorded a throw-back record all analog and the intention was to have a guitar tone like it fell out of the 70s. And they achieved that perfectly. 

I'm talking about people who proclaim something as good, just because the gutiar tone appeals to them. If the song is terrible and the band is generic a really don't care how brootz their axe-fx patch is. 

I think the worst case of this I've seen was when someone said in the megadeth thread that the last four albums are great because they have the best production out of all the megadeth albums.


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## Winspear (Sep 30, 2011)

DLG said:


> I think the worst case of this I've seen was when someone said in the megadeth thread that the last four albums are great because they have the best production out of all the megadeth albums.



Haha, yeah. This point is true, but it's worth stating that the production _is_ a valid part of the music. 
Music is quite simply a bunch of frequencies heard at different times, and the production does have everything to do with that. If this weren't the case, then the only thing that would matter is how the score looks on paper. The production serves to convey the music just like the players finger tone, performance, gear choice and tones used.
I don't think it's wrong that the production might make or break a listeners decision.


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## DLG (Sep 30, 2011)

EtherealEntity said:


> Haha, yeah. This point is true, but it's worth stating that the production _is_ a valid part of the music.
> Music is quite simply a bunch of frequencies heard at different times, and the production does have everything to do with that. If this weren't the case, then the only thing that would matter is how the score looks on paper. The production serves to convey the music just like the players finger tone, performance, gear choice and tones used.
> I don't think it's wrong that the production might make or break a listeners decision.



totally agree, as long as it's not the sole determining factor.


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## thedarkoceans (Sep 30, 2011)

my opinion: djent,created by misha "bulb" mansoor and periphery,citing meshuggah as an influence is fucking saturating.every band cites meshuggah in the influences,and play those 8 string sincopated riffs with a lot of bending and shit so,saying that they play "progressive metal/djent".every band copies the other,so the plagiarism is enormous.every song feels the same,same guitar sound,same scream,same clean vocals copied from metalcore,same boring Low F breakdowns.

please,give me back bands like Ion Dissonance....


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## The Reverend (Sep 30, 2011)

^ That's the exact attitude I'm talking about.

I can say the exact same thing about any band in any genre you like. Black metal, technical death metal, nu-metal, the list goes on and on.

Either you like the genre tropes, or you don't. End of story. It doesn't mean all the bands are bad, it just means that you personally don't like the very things the genre is based on.

I could easily talk shit about technical death metal bands, and how they just seem to go up and down creepy-sounding scales, and there's always constant blastbeats and shitty deathgrowls, and that they all sound the same. Is anyone grasping this single, horrible truth?

1. GENRE TROPES DO NOT MEAN A GENRE IS RIPPING OFF ITSELF.
2. UNDERSTAND THAT ANY GENRE YOU LOVE CAN BE DECONSTRUCTED AND MADE JUST AS PATHETIC.
3. STOP GIVING A FUCK.


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## Andromalia (Sep 30, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> Back to the 80s...?


Yeah enough with the MOAR MIDZ madness.


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## brutalwizard (Sep 30, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> ^
> 
> 2. UNDERSTAND THAT ANY GENRE YOU LOVE CAN BE DECONSTRUCTED AND MADE JUST AS PATHETIC.



Deconstructed? Like a cheeseburger?



AS DEVIN PUTS IT

"While we all have lots of bands who influence us, still&#8230;we all rip off Meshuggah!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjR71VwiP6s


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## The Reverend (Sep 30, 2011)

brutalwizard said:


> Deconstructed? Like a cheeseburger?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Is there some joke involving deconstructing the various elements of a band to make them look silly and overdone that I'm missing?


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## linchpin (Sep 30, 2011)

DLG said:


> because it's intentional.


That's exactly what pisses me off about bands... i understand that some debuts don't sound too great either due to lack of experience or low budget... but to deliberately say let's make the sounds as shitty as possible is just


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## ByDesign (Sep 30, 2011)

Didn't bother to read the entire thread... but I don't get why people are getting so shitty about the whole djent genre thing? Just like with every genre, there are good and bad bands within it. Big deal. Life continues.... 

Djent is the new deathcore, accept it, I'm sure in a few years time you'll have another new genre emerge that you can whinge about also. 

So over it.


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## ChrisRushing (Sep 30, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> ^ That's the exact attitude I'm talking about.
> 
> I can say the exact same thing about any band in any genre you like. Black metal, technical death metal, nu-metal, the list goes on and on.
> 
> ...






This is a very valid point but I think it is taken to another level in the sense that many (Not All) of these groups utilize the same exact rhythmic patterns with very little melodic or harmonic movement (so it becomes even more similar) then you pair that up with the "band in a box" approach (Drumkit From Hell, Pod or Axe Fx etc...) and it homogenizes the sound to the point that there is not even one original element, not even the production. 
There are thousands of clone black metal bands. I don't want to listen to them and I think they are just as stupid but to my ears it is less offensive because they don't have a recording that sounds identical to an Emperor, Darkthrone, or an Immortal album. 
It is what it is. Obviously if you are into it, then more power to you. I just can't grasp the artistic drive to want to take "copying" to this level. 

Also, I keep seeing the comment about Misha claiming Meshuggah as an influence and people jumping on it. How many metal guitarist do you honestly believe actually listened to Alan Holdsworth before Thordendal started tossing that name around? Not really trying to prove a point on this, just stating an observation.


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## ShadowFactoryX (Sep 30, 2011)

DLG said:


> to me, the worst thing about djent is that there is more of a focus on tone and the equipment being used to play and record the music than the songs themselves.



while its nice to have good tone, and decent recordings, its worthless in the end if your songs suck.
i started making this compromise when getting into black metal.
while i still hate the old "trve" stuff, there's a lot of newer bands that didnt have the best sound, but incredible albums



ByDesign said:


> Didn't bother to read the entire thread... but I don't get why people are getting so shitty about the whole djent genre thing? Just like with every genre, there are good and bad bands within it. Big deal. Life continues....
> 
> Djent is the new deathcore, accept it, I'm sure in a few years time you'll have another new genre emerge that you can whinge about also.
> 
> So over it.



this, everyone needs to relax with the butt pain here, 
i cant even tell you how much deathcore bothered me. but it had its phase, just like every other niche crappy genre and bands before it.

there's a few good gems to have come out of the 'djent" thing but thats about it. most of it now is carbon copied garbage.


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## petereanima (Sep 30, 2011)

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> I believe that the core scene is dead, much like punk and black metal. If they refuse to progressive or grow their roots into something more, then they'll be left in the dust.



You must be fuckin kidding me.   


Guys, please, seriously, its awesome that you are into proggier stuff now, all power to you, but please believe me, in Satans glorious name....there arent many things as ridiculous as 16 year olds acting like they invented "prog".


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## DLG (Sep 30, 2011)

ChrisRushing said:


> This is a very valid point but I think it is taken to another level in the sense that many (Not All) of these groups utilize the same exact rhythmic patterns with very little melodic or harmonic movement (so it becomes even more similar) then you pair that up with the "band in a box" approach (Drumkit From Hell, Pod or Axe Fx etc...) and it homogenizes the sound to the point that there is not even one original element, not even the production.
> There are thousands of clone black metal bands. I don't want to listen to them and I think they are just as stupid but to my ears it is less offensive because they don't have a recording that sounds identical to an Emperor, Darkthrone, or an Immortal album.
> It is what it is. Obviously if you are into it, then more power to you. I just can't grasp the artistic drive to want to take "copying" to this level.
> 
> Also, I keep seeing the comment about Misha claiming Meshuggah as an influence and people jumping on it. How many metal guitarist do you honestly believe actually listened to Alan Holdsworth before Thordendal started tossing that name around? Not really trying to prove a point on this, just stating an observation.



on point.


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## celticelk (Sep 30, 2011)

ChrisRushing said:


> Also, I keep seeing the comment about Misha claiming Meshuggah as an influence and people jumping on it. How many metal guitarist do you honestly believe actually listened to Alan Holdsworth before Thordendal started tossing that name around? Not really trying to prove a point on this, just stating an observation.



Slightly OT, but whatever, it's Friday:

I was a guitar geek before (mind you, not a *lot* before...) there was a widely-available Internet to coalesce subcultures with, and I can tell you with certainty that guys like Satriani and other well-known players have been dropping Allan Holdsworth's name for *decades*. He's one of those "player's players" like Eric Johnson or Richard Thompson that tends to get name-checked a lot by the upper echelon of guitarists in a whole bunch of genres. You can argue that maybe it took Meshuggah to get players who are rigidly focused only on really extreme metal music to pay attention to Holdsworth, but I can't see how anyone who had a broader interest in the guitar as an instrument and any intellectual curiosity whatsoever could have avoided hearing about the guy.


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## celticelk (Sep 30, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> ^ That's the exact attitude I'm talking about.
> 
> I can say the exact same thing about any band in any genre you like. Black metal, technical death metal, nu-metal, the list goes on and on.
> 
> ...



See the history of punk for some instructive examples about the various ways that scenes implode around questions of authenticity and innovation. There really is nothing new under the sun.


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## Wingchunwarrior (Sep 30, 2011)

Boring thread is boring but Intervals rock

Thanks MikeH


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## ShadowFactoryX (Sep 30, 2011)

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> I believe that the core scene is dead, much like punk and black metal. If they refuse to progressive or grow their roots into something more, then they'll be left in the dust. I.e. Whitechapel, the Acacia Strain and After the Burial. Now I understand if people like their nasty thrash or fast grindcore and brutal death, but if bands label them selves as progressive music, than why not do what they say the are doing?
> 
> I think im part of this progressive movement, anyone else?



you're part of the progressive movement, eh?
progressive movement of what? its music it changes, as it always does, with trends and what have you
people use that term "progressive" like kids where using "br00tal"
"we're really like a progressive kind of band" ohh plz

and black metal is not dead..
do you even know what black metal is to begin with?
on top of that, the home studio idea has enabled a lot of black metal musicians to start their own project, and a lot have expanded on it with many different influences.

as of late, and especially with the change of seasons, i've been on to a lot of post-rock black metal. its fantastic.

punk isnt dead either, they've been saying that for years, its just not as popular as it was.
is thrash dead? it certainly had its glory days, but there's plenty of bands till doing it.

take all of that with a grain of salt 
i just cant see your reasoning on those subjects, there's a lot of research and understanding you skipped before blurting out a very skewed and naive opinion


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## Rap Hat (Sep 30, 2011)

"Djent", like any budding genre, will have a lot of derivative elements until people start branching out and combining styles. Since there's not a huge library of established djent bands people can reference, many bands will base their style around the few well know musicians. It's not a bad thing at all - newer bands will reference the ones before them, modify the genre a little for their specific goals, and eventually djent will evolve into something less like it's predecessors. 

It's hard to turn a genre on it's head without a body of work to reference. If you go too far you can hit the "he was ahead of his time..." wall, where your stylistic jump alienates people because there's no framework for it. It's not a bad thing and you can probably influence other musicians more this way, but not everyone's goal is to make music for music's sake.


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## Scrubface05 (Sep 30, 2011)

Want something progressive? Go listen to Protest the Hero


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## ChrisRushing (Sep 30, 2011)

celticelk said:


> Slightly OT, but whatever, it's Friday:
> 
> I was a guitar geek before (mind you, not a *lot* before...) there was a widely-available Internet to coalesce subcultures with, and I can tell you with certainty that guys like Satriani and other well-known players have been dropping Allan Holdsworth's name for *decades*. He's one of those "player's players" like Eric Johnson or Richard Thompson that tends to get name-checked a lot by the upper echelon of guitarists in a whole bunch of genres. You can argue that maybe it took Meshuggah to get players who are rigidly focused only on really extreme metal music to pay attention to Holdsworth, but I can't see how anyone who had a broader interest in the guitar as an instrument and any intellectual curiosity whatsoever could have avoided hearing about the guy.




I think the way I stated that probably came off wrong. I wasn't saying that no one had heard of or listened to Holdsworth before Meshuggah, I just think it has become one of those go to "cool name drops" in certain scenes regardless if you listen to it or not. Especially amongst Meshuggah fans and people participating in the super awesome and progressive Meshuggah re-enactment association.


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## celticelk (Sep 30, 2011)

ChrisRushing said:


> I think the way I stated that probably came off wrong. I wasn't saying that no one had heard of or listened to Holdsworth before Meshuggah, I just think it has become one of those go to "cool name drops" in certain scenes regardless if you listen to it or not. Especially amongst Meshuggah fans and people participating in the super awesome and progressive Meshuggah re-enactment association.



Ah, I see. That could very well be the case; I don't run in the right circles to have an opinion. Personally I'm not a Holdsworth fan, mostly because I don't like the sounds on his records that I've heard, particularly the keyboards. Jazz keyboards almost always drive me up a wall. There's no denying his playing ability, though. And I like his Carvin signature model. =)


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## vampiregenocide (Sep 30, 2011)

Apparently I insulted someone's intelligence enough to get neg rep.  It's not that big a deal for God's sake. It's just music. Grow some balls.

I'm looking forward to what new stuff comes out that changes things up, like Meshuggah did.


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## awesomeaustin (Sep 30, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> while its nice to have good tone, and decent recordings, its worthless in the end if your songs suck.
> i started making this compromise when getting into black metal.
> while i still hate the old "trve" stuff, there's a lot of newer bands that didnt have the best sound, but incredible albums
> 
> ...



everything here = truth


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## guitareben (Sep 30, 2011)

Isn't this the same with any genre, ever. Genres have there good stuff, and then a load of crap stuff.


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## ShadowFactoryX (Sep 30, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Apparently I insulted someone's intelligence enough to get neg rep.  It's not that big a deal for God's sake. It's just music. Grow some balls.
> 
> I'm looking forward to what new stuff comes out that changes things up, like Meshuggah did.



at least meshuggah has kept it interesting (and quite professional) while not rushing to appease anyone.

+1 rep for your booboo


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## vampiregenocide (Sep 30, 2011)

ShadowFactoryX said:


> at least meshuggah has kept it interesting (and quite professional) while not rushing to appease anyone.
> 
> +1 rep for your booboo



Haha thanks.  I'm not bothered about neg rep I'd just rather people talk to me if they disagree!

And agreed, I love Meshuggah and a lot of the good 'djent' bands. I'm not hater of the movement, I just think the real unique bands are far and few between now, whereas last year and the year before so many people where churning out sweet albums. Now it's all the same. Meshuggah are the forefathers of djent and so I will always love them for what they are. They're one of my fave bands.


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## Wingchunwarrior (Sep 30, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Haha thanks.  I'm not bothered about neg rep I'd just rather people talk to me if they disagree!
> 
> And agreed, I love Meshuggah and a lot of the good 'djent' bands. I'm not hater of the movement, I just think the real unique bands are far and few between now, whereas last year and the year before so many people where churning out sweet albums. Now it's all the same. Meshuggah are the forefathers of djent and so I will always love them for what they are. They're one of my fave bands.



OMG You changed your avatar!!!


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## brutalwizard (Sep 30, 2011)

The Reverend said:


> Is there some joke involving deconstructing the various elements of a band to make them look silly and overdone that I'm missing?



its a joke, the messugah quote is a lyric in that song, planet of the apes

and the cheeseburger thing is from, this song


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## Konfyouzd (Sep 30, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> Apparently I insulted someone's intelligence enough to get neg rep.  It's not that big a deal for God's sake. It's just music. Grow some balls.
> 
> I'm looking forward to what new stuff comes out that changes things up, like Meshuggah did.


 
Ehh fuck em. Plus... We don't want you banned for talking about that. We need ppl like you around here.


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## Greatoliver (Sep 30, 2011)

vampiregenocide said:


> And agreed, I love Meshuggah and a lot of the good 'djent' bands. I'm not hater of the movement, I just think the real unique bands are far and few between now, whereas last year and the year before so many people where churning out sweet albums. Now it's all the same. Meshuggah are the forefathers of djent and so I will always love them for what they are. They're one of my fave bands.



You know what, I kind of want some albums that sound the same. As much as I like diversity, I get so frustrated when I finish listening to an album, and then I'm like "I want to listen to something similar" and there's nothing! 

That being said, I don't think I know of any bands that actually sound like Meshuggah...


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## brutalwizard (Sep 30, 2011)




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## Neptical (Sep 30, 2011)

ChrisRushing said:


> How many metal guitarist do you honestly believe actually listened to Alan Holdsworth before Thordendal started tossing that name around?


 
ME!! I knew who AH was well before Meshuggah was a band. Still have all my copies of GW from the 80s with all the AH Boogie ads!


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## vampiregenocide (Sep 30, 2011)

Konfyouzd said:


> Ehh fuck em. Plus... We don't want you banned for talking about that. We need ppl like you around here.



Bless you. 



Greatoliver said:


> You know what, I kind of want some albums that sound the same. As much as I like diversity, I get so frustrated when I finish listening to an album, and then I'm like "I want to listen to something similar" and there's nothing!
> 
> That being said, I don't think I know of any bands that actually sound like Meshuggah...



Oh yeah completely, sometimes you just want more of something. I suppose it's getting the balance right that is important.


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## Joeywilson (Sep 30, 2011)

linchpin said:


> The one good thing i like about the whole Djent thing is that there is more of a focus on rhythm rather than lead... which of course i approve.



While I agree there are a lot of insteresting rhythms, this is exactly my problem: Lack of interesting progressions. That just goes to show that this whole thread is kind of dumb just because of the fact that the topic is so subjective. I think 'Djent' needs to stay as a technique and not perameters to build mediocre songs with cool chug patters.

That being said I dig the shit out of the new Volumes album, which is essentially chug pattern after chug pattern.


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## bhakan (Sep 30, 2011)

So where are all these crappy djent knock off bands? Only counting bands who released an actual album (not just kids in their bedroom) I can think of Periphery, Tesseract, Animals As Leaders (kinda), Fellsilent, Textures, etc. I know I'm missing a whole bunch, but I can think of 5-10 real touring, signed bands that are djent, and I think they all sound pretty good.


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## Sikthness (Sep 30, 2011)

My final thoughts on this whole thing are this:

Djent, like any sub genre of metal or music in general, will have its talented and great acts. Then once it gets popular, it will have 10 clones for every 1 decent band. The thing is that djent emerged in an age where every 16 year old kid capable of convincing his parents to buy an AxeFx can be a djent star. There are a lot of stuff that drives me crazy about the djent movement, namely boring songs. This is of course subjective, but I need more going on in a song than a moderately interesting chug pattern. No metal song should be able to be played with just your right hand. However, I will say there is a lot to like about some of these emerging bands who consider themselves djent. For one, I like the tone most of these bands use. Its a small piece of the music and could never make up for poor songwriting, but I like it. I also like how, as a whole, the musicians tend to be talented.
Someone mentioned hating deathcore when it first came around. I generally do not like or listen to standard deathcore. However, there are bands now that fall into the deathcore category that are doing more than breakdown after breakdown who I find enjoyable. That's what is going to happen to djent. The market will be super saturated with copycats and 2nd and 3rd wannabe bands who think they are going to be the next Periphery. Just like any other sub genre though, there are going to be some gems that come along and either impress with a mastery of the genre, or a whole new approach that is fresh and inventive. In the end, as listeners, all we need to do is simply turn of the shit that is derivative and support the up and coming acts. Djent is not worth gettin all heated over.


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## Stealthdjentstic (Sep 30, 2011)

I think you shpuld all listen to the new Corelia album.


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## ArkaneDemon (Sep 30, 2011)

Meshuggah doesn't write good songs, they write good rhythm exercises.


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## The Reverend (Sep 30, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> Meshuggah doesn't write good songs, they write good rhythm exercises.



And all of a sudden everyone stopped posting . 

This is the first time I've seen SSO speechless.


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## Scar Symmetry (Sep 30, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> Meshuggah doesn't write good songs, they write good rhythm exercises.



I don't agree but I see what you're getting at.


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## vampiregenocide (Sep 30, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> Meshuggah doesn't write good songs, they write good rhythm exercises.



You're right to an extent, but I also think they are great songs.


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## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Sep 30, 2011)

My basic beef is that all music is obviously progressive, as it is constantly changing and taking influence and inspiration from various places. I just think that we are truly seeing a change that his making quite the vibrations in prog, metal, and music in general. The virtuosity in young musicians today is prevalent everywhere simply because of the access to modern knowledge. But when it comes to metal, I see Meshuggah. They have made such huge vibrations that the waves are just now hitting us, almost as if they were from the future. But the future can change, that's why we are seeing such great musicianship come from these young bands like (sorry to name drop) Animals As Leaders.

To go back on a previous note. The only reason thrash is still alive is because young adults in their garages are trying to thrash out. The end result are bands like Metallica and Bullet For My Valentine :/

Punk is almost the same way. Look what happened, two directions; went weak like Green Day or Blink 182, or went extreme like Napalm Death/Terrorizer/Pig Destroyer (Grindcore).

Now black metal, of course I know its origins, I grew up in that era. The only real black metal band is Venom or even Bathory. Bands like Burzum or Darkthrone still considered black metal to me in their early days, but all the way to present Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir or Abigail Williams. No black metal is done for.

These are only my opinions, but Meshuggah has indeed made a huge impact in the progressive metal movement. And I am part of it because I draw heavy influence from them and other prog stuff, even if I play death metal.


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## brutalwizard (Oct 1, 2011)

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> And I am part of it because I draw heavy influence from them and other prog stuff, even if I play death metal.






brutalwizard said:


> AS DEVIN PUTS IT
> 
> "While we all have lots of bands who influence us, still&#8230;we all rip off Meshuggah!"




'ed by devy with months of a gap


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## yingmin (Oct 1, 2011)

DaethedralXiphos7FX said:


> My basic beef is that all music is obviously progressive, as it is constantly changing and taking influence and inspiration from various places.


This misunderstands the idea of progressive music almost as badly as when people were complaining that emo just meant "emotional".


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## DLG (Oct 1, 2011)

ArkaneDemon said:


> Meshuggah doesn't write good songs, they write good rhythm exercises.



no.

Meshuggah have a way of building tension through repetition and constructing a song that no one has been able to replicate, which is what makes them better than every band that has learned how to emulate their riffs. None have been able to duplicate their atmosphere no matter how much their riffs sound like meshuggah and are constructed like meshuggah's theoretically.


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## BMU (Oct 1, 2011)

A personal YES on the snide Meshuggah rhythm exercises comment. And EVH threw around Holdsworth's name back in 1867 or something. So lot of metal guitarists listened to him "before" Meshuggah.


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## Wingchunwarrior (Oct 1, 2011)

DLG said:


> no.
> 
> Meshuggah have a way of building tension through repetition and constructing a song that no one has been able to replicate, which is what makes them better than every band that has learned how to emulate their riffs. None have been able to duplicate their atmosphere no matter how much their riffs sound like meshuggah and are constructed like meshuggah's theoretically.




They are my *EXACT* views on Meshuggah


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## ChrisRushing (Oct 1, 2011)

> The virtuosity in young musicians today is prevalent everywhere simply because of the access to modern knowledge.



I don't think this is even close to accurate. There have ALWAYS been young virtuoso's but until now we have never had the ability to access and view them so easily. Sites like YOUTUBE have really changed it where a completely unknown player can have the world as his audience. 
Let's step back 25 years. You don't believe there were any proficient young guitarist in the 80's when it PAID big money to bring the pain on guitar? 
What about Mozart.....did his lack of access to modern knowledge stop him from laying other composers to waste in his teens?


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## ChrisRushing (Oct 1, 2011)

DLG said:


> no.
> 
> Meshuggah have a way of building tension through repetition and constructing a song that no one has been able to replicate, which is what makes them better than every band that has learned how to emulate their riffs. None have been able to duplicate their atmosphere no matter how much their riffs sound like meshuggah and are constructed like meshuggah's theoretically.




Exactly, music isn't just about what notes (or lack of) are coming off the fretboard. The mood/vibe is such a big part of their sound. 
They lost me a little bit on their later releases but Destroy Erase Improve is a fucking tutorial on dynamics. Even though it was released almost 16 years ago I don't think anyone in this same style has even come close to matching it.


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## Mindcrime1204 (Oct 1, 2011)

BMU said:


> And EVH threw around Holdsworth's name back in 1867 or something. So lot of metal guitarists listened to him "before" Meshuggah.


 

WAT?


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## NaYoN (Oct 1, 2011)

yingmin said:


> This misunderstands the idea of progressive music almost as badly as when people were complaining that emo just meant "emotional".



This. If anything, most Meshuggah songs are "regressive"


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## Hemi-Powered Drone (Oct 1, 2011)

Scrubface05 said:


> Want something progressive? Go listen to Protest the Hero





I've never heard anyone else that sounds like them, and they're constantly pushing those changes.


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## BMU (Oct 1, 2011)

Mindcrime1204 said:


> WAT?


What, what? (You said what first. Har.)

Allan Holdsworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Van Halen had previously enthused about Holdsworth in a 1980 issue of _Guitar Player_ magazine, saying "That guy is bad! He's fantastic; I love him", and that Holdsworth was "[t]he best, in my book".[3]

Edit - nevermind. This was way back in the thread.

Carry on. 
Meshuggah: not just a rhythm exercise band (apparently).


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## rythmic_pulses (Oct 1, 2011)

What I actually like about Meshuggah is nowadays they tend to keep it kinda simple in their own way of doing things with their repetition which also brings about their array of moods in a certain song, most Djent bands in my area tend to go off and start tapping all over the fretboard and widdling and shit and getting far too technical, it gets repetitive after a while and it all starts to sound the same and I am not bashing any bands here it's just how some people I know have accidently percieved the concept in an entirely wrong way, instead of doing it like Meshuggah do it they tend to get lost in the 'technical' and gear aspect of it all like "Hey check out my Axe FX plus patches,TS9 and my Ibanez RG2228 and now I will djent like Periphery!" which is kinda silly because guys I have met have tried using this setup with their various preamps and still not getting that technique right and going "I thought it was all about the gear?" and when it comes to the technical side the guys I know are fighting where the extreme harmonised tapping section is going to be and then the syncopated rythms over 4/4 with hammer ons and pulloffs.


I personally like the Djent movement and where it is going because it isn't all about that certain sound anymore, most bands in the Genre are getting more and more adventurous with harmony and how it reacts with their playing style so now Djent bands are more of a mix of Meshuggah and Dream Theatre and it is getting more experimental year by year.

But soon Djent will be thrown into the Jazz Fusion category


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## Rap Hat (Oct 1, 2011)

rythmic_pulses said:


> But soon Djent will be thrown into the Jazz Fusion category



Djazz Fusion 

Funny thing about Meshuggah, Fredrik's been on record stating the jazz influence in his solos. His approach is obviously based more on freeform jazz stylings than more traditional stuff, but you have to wonder if the waves from that are hitting now.


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## rythmic_pulses (Oct 1, 2011)

Djazz Fusion 

but yeah definitely, the free form jazz styling is far more popular now amongst musicians like Fredrik and The Mats Morgan Band, so yeah I guess the waves of influences are being passed over to another generation.

And the way Fredrik answer to the question of how he composes solo's "I don't know I just improvise until it sounds.....cool.....hahaha" that is one of the best ways I have heard a guitarist describe how they compose.


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## The_Mop (Oct 1, 2011)

Here's my problem for the whole meshuggah/djent scene - for a genre that describes itself as 'progressive', everything is really samey.. it almost seems hilarious when you see these bands chugging along with a steady 4/4 beat going OMG PLYRHYTHMS DERE SO INTERESTIN LULZ AM SO ORIGINAL, almost oblivious to the bigger picture...

Even meshuggah, in my opinion, have become incredibly stagnant. I don't think they've made anything really worth listening to since Nothing. They've no doubt changed the face of metal, in some aspects for the better, but conversely in quite a lot of respects, for the worse.

It's a bit like how death metal is dull as shit because no-one can help ripping off cannibal corpse...


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## orakle (Oct 1, 2011)

why cant people just find music they like and enjoy it ?

this is fuckin ridiculous


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## The_Mop (Oct 1, 2011)

Tbh, I used to love meshuggah. Thought they were the shit. It's just a shame that they've basically been re-hashing Nothing ever since it came out, now I'm bored of them.

IMO, of course


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## rythmic_pulses (Oct 1, 2011)

The_Mop said:


> Here's my problem for the whole meshuggah/djent scene - for a genre that describes itself as 'progressive', everything is really samey.. it almost seems hilarious when you see these bands chugging along with a steady 4/4 beat going OMG PLYRHYTHMS DERE SO INTERESTIN LULZ AM SO ORIGINAL, almost oblivious to the bigger picture...
> 
> Even meshuggah, in my opinion, have become incredibly stagnant. I don't think they've made anything really worth listening to since Nothing. They've no doubt changed the face of metal, in some aspects for the better, but conversely in quite a lot of respects, for the worse.
> 
> It's a bit like how death metal is dull as shit because no-one can help ripping off cannibal corpse...


 
I agree, there are times when Meshuggah can get a little stagnant but that's what happens when the band members aren't with each other during the writing stages and just sitting at a desktop with a computer emailing ideas to each other and not spending any time as friends for example because it is really easy to get into a really bad routine where you don't rehearse like Meshuggah did lately, but now they have decided this time round for their newest album to get together as a band and write together in a room for the first time since 1998, maybe they thought things were starting to get stagnant in the writing process themselves?.

Death Metal as well has become kinda dull because like you said they are ripping off Cannibal Corpse and not taking any styles from earlier bands like Morbid Angel and Death for example, Deathcore is now far too popular and that is really boring music to listen to, breakdown after breakdown and not musically progressing any further, but don't lose hope in things man cause that's when musically, things die.

Music is coming full circle with older influences branching out into a younger generation, like with me I have started listening to Jazz Fusion artists from the 70's like Al Di Meola and Return to Forever because nowadays there ain't a lot of musicians like that anymore and I find it kinda hard to get any inspiration from musicians like say "Matt Heafy" for a bad example because what he is doing isn't anything new.

But I like the music I listen to and even if my tastes change over time I won't forget who I drew inspiration from and why.


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## renzoip (Oct 1, 2011)

I'm not sure why bands such as Meshuggah, AAL, Periphery, Tesseract, and the like of bands associated with the term "Djent" are being classified as progressive. Are they considered a new wave of prog metal, a separate branch of prog metal, or just wrongly categorized bands? 


Anyways, I'll leave you guys with some good old progressive metal, as I understand it (and love it). 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf23Vr504v4


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## Harry (Oct 1, 2011)

I can't be the only one that thinks this thread has just about run its course


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## DLG (Oct 1, 2011)

The_Mop said:


> Even meshuggah, in my opinion, have become incredibly stagnant. I don't think they've made anything really worth listening to since Nothing.



If you invented the wheel, I think you are allowed to focus on making changes to the wheel and trying to take it in various directions in terms of design and performance as the years go by, instead of being obligated to reinvent it. 

Meshuggah have their sound and that's what they do. The fact that there is no existing precursor, generally speaking, for their style, means that they can't really experiment too much. A band like Opeth can take their style into prog rock, death metal, black metal, doom metal, directions without getting a "wtf" from everyone, because their music is informed by all these genres. 

Meshuggah doesn't have that luxury.


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## The_Mop (Oct 1, 2011)

DLG said:


> If you invented the wheel, I think you are allowed to focus on making changes to the wheel and trying to take it in various directions in terms of design and performance as the years go by, instead of being obligated to reinvent it.
> 
> Meshuggah have their sound and that's what they do. The fact that there is no existing precursor, generally speaking, for their style, means that they can't really experiment too much. A band like Opeth can take their style into prog rock, death metal, black metal, doom metal, directions without getting a "wtf" from everyone, because their music is informed by all these genres.
> 
> Meshuggah doesn't have that luxury.



I wouldn't quite say that, mainly because Meshuggah started as a thrash band and evolved from that to what appears to be the foundation of all modern technical metal, with Nothing. The thing that bugs me is that ever since then, it's not been a case of (to use your analogy) re-inventing the wheel or even redesigning it, but bringing out the same damn wheel since 2002, for nearly a decade now...

I won't go into details, I don't want to start a flame war. I'm fully aware my dislike of meshuggah on this forum puts me into a minority, but I really don't like how they've become the be all and end all of tech metal with numerous copycats when it seems like they're barely putting any effort in anymore.


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## brutalwizard (Oct 1, 2011)

i pronounce necrophagist

NE-croop-a-ha-jist

i am sure that helps solve the op's original question


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## Ancestor (Oct 1, 2011)

i find this discussion really encouraging. this much passion and expended energy over something like 'djent' (the word) and 'progressive'? 

maybe there's hope.


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## DLG (Oct 2, 2011)

The_Mop said:


> I wouldn't quite say that, mainly because Meshuggah started as a thrash band and evolved from that to what appears to be the foundation of all modern technical metal, with Nothing. The thing that bugs me is that ever since then, it's not been a case of (to use your analogy) re-inventing the wheel or even redesigning it, but bringing out the same damn wheel since 2002, for nearly a decade now...
> 
> I won't go into details, I don't want to start a flame war. I'm fully aware my dislike of meshuggah on this forum puts me into a minority, but I really don't like how they've become the be all and end all of tech metal with numerous copycats when it seems like they're barely putting any effort in anymore.



Nothing? Meshuggah already had their formula in place with the None EP and perfected with DEI.


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## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Oct 5, 2011)

Alright I agree that this thread has run its course. But with closing remarks, in my opinion Meshuggah has influenced a new wave of metal in general, be it extreme, djent or progressive. Just like other bands had influenced them. So I will vow to continue to experiment with extended range guitars/basses and try to push their sound even further.


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## Curt (Oct 5, 2011)

So, anyone in this thread ever tried not giving a fuck?

It's a pretty revolutionary concept. Eliminates a lot of problems...


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## ChrisRushing (Oct 5, 2011)

My D-Jina hurts.....


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## rythmic_pulses (Oct 5, 2011)

Curt said:


> So, anyone in this thread ever tried not giving a fuck?
> 
> It's a pretty revolutionary concept. Eliminates a lot of problems...


 
_




_

_This kinda answers a lot of problems, people just can't let go that Djent isn't a Genre._

_It's a god damn palm muting technique ._


_------------END OF THREAD---------------_


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## mikemueller2112 (Oct 6, 2011)

Sikthness said:


> How does THA have anything to do with 'djent'? djent bothers me cuz its stupid to name a genre after a sound in th first place. And furthermore, 99% of people seem to think the 'djent' noise has something to do 8 string guitars and plodding away on the low string. The problem is not any type of movement in music, the problem is too many seem to want to attach themselves to the new movement or trend and try to copy a specific sound, rather than finding their own unique sound. You mentioned bands like AAL and Periphery, both of which I'd consider progressive metal. They incorporate a wide variety of styles and influences to properly achieve their sound, and that's what attracts me to them. More bands need to realize they don't need to be boxed in and neatly defined by a genre.



Why does naming a genre after a sound bother you? Heavy metal was once used to describe Jimi Hendrix's music as sounding like heavy metal falling from the sky. It's obviously evolved, so can "Djent" as a (sub)genre. I've never understood why people throw a fit about using it a genre/classification. Yeah, it's hip and cool to be one of the guys that hate "genres" or labeling things, but it's a means of communication. If some kid goes and Googles some Djent bands, he'll find a bunch of bands with some similarities. If a genre means all music under that umbrella sounds the same, why bother? Most genres started out as some sort of trend. The majority will dictate if it's going to be used as a genre or not, who cares what it's called.


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## Sikthness (Oct 6, 2011)

I said it bothers me, I'm not throwing a fit. It bothers me ever so slightly because its a technique, not like heavy metal that described the music. Should palm muting be a genre too? How about sweep picking? I simply think its silly. And djent is extra silly, because most 'djent' bands are just playin simple 8 string riffs and don't create a single 'djent' in their entire catalog. In the end, metal is metal to me. If I like it, I listen/buy whatever, I don't worry about the label. This however, is a thread on the internet discussing a chosen topic, so I expressed my opinions.


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## brutalwizard (Oct 6, 2011)

Sikthness said:


> I said it bothers me, It bothers me ever so slightly because its a technique



i can only imagine how you feel when people call Jamaican influenced jazz/blues with guitars that are using a technique called making a ska noise is called SKA music.

SKA is a technique not a genre haha

oh wait.......

i call djent bands djent so its easy to catorgorize.

i dont see anything really that similar between cloudkicker, periphery, volumes and chimp spanner besides that element.

and the only meshuggah i have listened to all the way through is catch 33,


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## Sikthness (Oct 6, 2011)

brutalwizard said:


> i dont see anything really that similar between cloudkicker, periphery, volumes and chimp spanner besides that element.
> 
> ,


 

Exactly. There really is not much similar between those bands. Except that they all use low tuned/8 string guitars in their music. For some reason, any band that uses an 8 string guitar is djent. bands that take heavy influence from sikth are also djent a lot of times for some reason. So by this logic that music with 8 string guitars is = djent? Ill agree it helps for categorizing these bands. Its just a stupid name. People get so butthurt about it if you say you don't like it though. I use the term myself when talkin about these bands. That doesn't mean I don't think its dumb. I think its dumb there are as many sub genres as there are. djent bothers me just like 'christian metal'. Christian metal only needs to contain a faith based message or have chrisitan members to be christian metal. who gives a shit what style they play or you know, what the actual music sounds like, its christian! Same thing with djent, which unfortunately has been reduced to - All bands with 8 string/low tuned guitarwork are Djent.


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## Shaunheiser (Oct 7, 2011)

Meh, I'm just past caring about shit like this. I would've gotten really wrapped up in this a few years ago, but now my take is always if you don't like a certain style of music, don't listen to it. Also, create the music you love, fuck what everyone else thinks.


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## Spaceman_Spiff (Oct 7, 2011)

Scale the Summit.

/thread  (but seriously... they = win)

I think that the term "djent" has moved past the point of being an onomatopoeia and (almost) become a genre. When someone shows me something like Volumes, Periphery, etc., I just go...that's pretty damn djenty. Maybe we should just say a band is djenty instead of a djent band. 

In my opinion, this whole djent thing is kind of a fad. I know that bands like meshuggah (who are the forerunners of djent) will live on because, well, they've already been around for a long time. But look at how many djent bands surfaced after Icarus Lives went "viral" so to speak. So many kids I know where like "man it's all about breakdowns and ambient keyboards" i.e. TDWP. But once word of Periphery came out most of them were hocking their Schecter tempest for an agile 8 string and playing on the low f# in binary with some bends and pinch harmonics. 

Just how I feel...Oh yeah and the only "djent" band I kind of like is AAL...those dudes are going places...


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## Curt (Oct 7, 2011)

rythmic_pulses said:


> _This kinda answers a lot of problems, people just can't let go that Djent isn't a Genre._
> 
> _It's a god damn palm muting technique ._
> 
> ...




Genre or not, if people would put less focus on the categorization of the music and just LISTEN to it, music forums would be much less heated. But then again, I suppose that's what some people want... 

Edit: For anyone who doesn't understand the context of this post... it's not a "LaBeLzZ R 4 TeH s00p c4nZz d00d!" post... Just don't argue about categorization.. You call it what YOU think it should be called and let others do the same...


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## DDDorian (Oct 7, 2011)

He's an example of a band not sounding like Meshuggah and doing it well, years before Meshuggah was ever popular! Such vision! Such genius! And all without a single Bareknuckle!


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## DLG (Oct 7, 2011)

best thrash album ever after rust in peace and twisted into form imo.


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## Kurkkuviipale (Oct 7, 2011)

rythmic_pulses said:


> _This kinda answers a lot of problems, people just can't let go that Djent isn't a Genre._
> 
> _It's a god damn palm muting technique ._
> 
> ...



People just can't let go that djent has formed into a genre.

It's not only a god damn palm muting technique anymore


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## ByDesign (Oct 7, 2011)

If the word 'djent' didn't annoy me before reading this thread, it sure as hell does now.

You all ruined it for me. Congratulations.


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## rythmic_pulses (Oct 7, 2011)

ByDesign said:


> If the word 'djent' didn't annoy me before reading this thread, it sure as hell does now.
> 
> You all ruined it for me. Congratulations.


 


I know it seriously gets on my nerves, I honestly don't try to sound like those bands or like Meshuggah in fact, it's just my choice of tone and right hand technique that makes me sound like them but when it comes to actually writing music I do not use the 'term' at all, I just write what I feel sounds good, so literally what I come out with at times is more Djazz than Djent 

I honestly couldn't care less about the word so I go and listen to Megadeth and Ohm to have a rest from all the syncopation  and that is how I try not to sound like Meshuggah and do it well


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## Asrial (Oct 7, 2011)

Kurkkuviipale said:


> People just can't let go that djent has formed into a genre.
> 
> It's not only a god damn palm muting technique anymore



Agreed. Most djenters use both palm muted 4-string powerchords and rather odd Periphery-style runs, and has by that defined a genre.


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## BMU (Oct 9, 2011)

The people inside djent don't like it to be called a genre because they're not perceptive to how similar they all sound to each other. It's like any band really. They/we hate being categorized 'cos it's the cold hard fist of truth in the face that we're not as special and unique as we fantasized we were.


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## guitareben (Oct 9, 2011)

Just wondering.... does this matter? Can people not just... listen to the music they like, and make the music they love?


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## Demiurge (Oct 9, 2011)

guitareben said:


> Can people not just... listen to the music they like, and make the music they love?



That would be ideal. Listening, making- fine; _talking_ about it, that's when the fur starts to fly.


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## mithologian (Oct 9, 2011)




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## cronux (Oct 10, 2011)

my 2 cents:

meshuggah is not djent (some people think that ), meshuggah is meshuggah. it's been a trend for the last 3-5 years to start playing on 8 strings and get that meshuggahish tone and out of all that djent was created (IMO) -> and i still don't know if i consider djent a genre or not. the way i see it is that "djent time" is slowly coming to an end, or at least it's at a high point after witch it will go downward... there are xy band's that play djent and solo home recorders that record stuff that has become pretty much the "same stuff, different package". now, there are exceptions of course 

the fact that meshuggah have set a new standard using 8 strings will always "punish" someone using an 8 string and a digital amp for sounding "like meshuggah". there was a time when i GAS'ed about having an 8 string, but that time came and went... i'm still in-love with my 7, and will be for at least a couple of years.


p.s. in this response i wrote meshuggah (including this one) 7 times... still not enough to state that this band is the s*it


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## The Reverend (Oct 10, 2011)

cronux said:


> my 2 cents:
> 
> meshuggah is not djent (some people think that ), meshuggah is meshuggah. it's been a trend for the last 3-5 years to start playing on 8 strings and get that meshuggahish tone and out of all that djent was created (IMO) -> and i still don't know if i consider djent a genre or not. the way i see it is that "djent time" is slowly coming to an end, or at least it's at a high point after witch it will go downward... there are xy band's that play djent and solo home recorders that record stuff that has become pretty much the "same stuff, different package". now, there are exceptions of course
> 
> ...



You know, not a lot of people I know are aware of what djent is, and if they are, they don't relate it to Meshuggah, although they are aware of Meshuggah, and some even like them. However, I do agree with you that a lot of djent (or bands that djent) is starting to sound alike. From everyone having the tone, to the actual music being played. 

I think it'll do the same thing deathcore did (another disliked genre that I love!) where all the people doing it because it's trendy will move on, either past metal or past the djent trend, and the bands who truly like the sound will keep pushing. I listen to a lot of modern deathcore, and then listen to Job For A Cowboy's Doom EP, and think about just how far the bands have taken it. 

So I guess in the future, we can expect a decline in the popularity of djent, along with an increase of the quality of it. Not too shabby, eh?


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## rythmic_pulses (Oct 10, 2011)




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## DaethedralXiphos7FX (Oct 10, 2011)

If any Meshuggah related band is djent, its Fredrik Thordendal's Special Defects and they aren't even djent. They are metal fusion.


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## Scar Symmetry (Oct 11, 2011)

Srs guise - no one should care what djent is or is not. My personal stance is that djent has now solidified itself as a genre, ironically thanks to many of the people who have been saying "djent is not a genre!" and therein defeating their own point by referencing it as thus.

Meshuggah, Periphery, Tesseract... call them what you like, even Progressive Metal if you please! Even though that particular phrase hints at whichever band it relates to being above the djent movement and devoid of cliches (lol plural)...

At the end of the day, what djent is or is not simply just _does not matter._ What any of us think doesn't matter! At this stage, there is no new ground to be covered. Can we please talk about something else now? (i.e. Meshuggah's next album???)

I for one hope they go for the uber-dynamic route again and go for Catch 33's dark, atmospheric stylings. Obviously I don't want them to repeat themselves, but that album was a masterpiece I'm sure that they can build on and surpass. The tone on ObZen really grated on me (lol djent), so hopefully they'll go back to the thick, full tone we heard on Re-Nothing and Catch 33. 

Bring on March 2012.


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