# I need wide string spacing: convert a 7 or 8 string baritone to a 6 string?



## BigMitts (Aug 2, 2010)

Hi guys, first post to the forum and I could use some opinions.

I have big hands (hence my user name), and I find it really difficult to play a typical guitar. It's not so bad if I'm playing power chords and basically clamping my fingers down on the fretboard and riffing away on the bottom 3 strings, but if I try to play something clean and arpeggiated the pads of my fingers always end up touching the adjacent strings and muting them. It's not my technique, it's my big fingers. Even if I took my time and carefully positioned my hand in a particular chord shape it still happens. Bottom line, I need wider string spacing.

I don't want to get into a big pricey custom project, so I've been brainstorming, but would like some opinions on ways I can get a wide spaced 6-string baritone on the cheap. I definitely want a baritone. I've played bass for years, and ~25" scale guitars feel like toys to me. I think a 28-30" scale baritone tuned B-E-A-D-F#-B would be perfect. 

I want something at least 2" wide at the nut. A Warmoth 7-string baritone neck fits that requirement, but I don't know if they'd spec a nut on it for only 6 strings, or if they'd drill the headstock for only 6 tuners.

My other thought was to get an 8 string baritone from Rondo and only use 6 of the tuners and get a nut cut for 6 strings. The necks on their 8-strings are 2.25" wide at the nut.

Pickups won't be a problem, I'll use blade or bar magnet style pickups without individual pole-pieces.

I think the biggest problem is what to do about the bridge. I haven't come up with a solution I have 100% confidence in yet so that's why this project hasn't gone anywhere. My ideas so far are using 6 single-string bridges like I've seen on some basses, or finding a 6-string bass bridge with a lot of adjustability, like this Kahler:

Kahler 7440 fixed bass bridge

I was over on Talkbass the other day looking at a thread on short-scale basses. Most of them have guitar-like string spacing, but someone posted a link to a thread over here about the Brice HXB-406 30" scale bass, and I immediately started wondering if it would be a decent option if I strung it up with guitar strings and at B-E-A-D-F#-B.

http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/bass-guitar-discussion/98496-new-brice-short-scale-6-string.html

Sorry for the wordy post, but I figured I'd try to give you as much info as I could so you guys had something to go on when offering me your insightful opinions (or something like that). So, any thoughts on all this?


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## MaxOfMetal (Aug 2, 2010)

I think the Warmoth option would give you the best instrument for your needs. As far as I know you can order their necks without holes for the tuners (the paddles option I believe), and since you install the bridge yourself you'd be free to use anything. As for the nut, you can make your own (or have a tech/luthier make you a custom). 

Though, going with the short-scale Brice bass and stringing it up like a guitar would be the cheapest and most simple option. 

I definitely think that going with ABM (or similar) single string bridges would be your best bet as far as going custom goes. Though, most guitar bridges have pretty wide spacing already, so I think you'll find that you won't really have to opt for bass hardware. It's more of the taper that determines the string spacing on the fretboard. 

It definitely seems like you did your homework and considered a lot of your options, so at this point it seems that it's going to come down to execution. If I was you, I'd talk to Warmoth and see what they can do.


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## Dehumanize (Aug 2, 2010)

I need pictures. I've seen some large dudes do fine on guitar, so I'm going to assume it's your technique after all, unless you're some kind of giant. You're not going to be able to properly convert a 7 or 8 string guitar to standard without quiet a cost, which would be better put towards a custom.


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## sutchguitars (Apr 3, 2011)

2" nut would give you roughly 7.5mm string spacing at the nut aprx,you wouldnt really need to adjust the width at the last fret unless you felt the need,i would personally find a luthier to make you a custom neck! we are not all mega expensive!
Jase


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## ElRay (Apr 11, 2011)

I've been looking into this for quite some time. There's a lot of options, things mainly come down to how much you want to spend, how much you want to to DIY and how long you want to wait.

The reason I've been thinking the "string-ectomy" route is that I've been planning a DIY build for literally years, but life has been getting in the way of my plans and I'm growing weary of waiting/planning and looking forward to playing with only the "normal" amount of frustration. 

Before there's any more "It's not the guitar; it's your technique.", "So-and-So had big fingers and didn't need a wider neck", etc. comments: I'm not a big dude, but wear size 11-1/2 to 12-1/2 gloves and 11.5EEEE shoes and on the sole guitar I have left, my fingers cannot fret in first position without damping one string higher and lower. In second position, if I am very careful, I can either damp the lower string (string # - higher pitched) or get a buzz off my nail with the higher string, but I cannot play open notes on both higher and lower strings. I have for years had my ups and downs with playing, played with capos, played only barre-chords, re-aranged anything I wanted to play so as to not need to fret single notes below the 3rd fret, stuck with a Classical guitar, etc.

The only, out of the box, semi-regular retail solution I've found is: Big Lou Wide Nut Guitars It's also the fastest solution I've found. He basically has manufactured an HSS Strat Clone with a 1-7/8" nut. That gives a 0.31" (8mm) string spacing at the nut. The bridge spacing is LFR "standard" spacing. He has some distributers, but you can also ping Louis and order one directly from him. Ballpark: $325

The next easiest "retail" solution seems to be obtaining a loaded body with a "Fender Compatible" neck pocket and buying a Warmoth "SuperWide" neck. You'd have a bit of DIY, but it would be minimal and you wouldn't need many tools or "skills" as you would performing a string-ectomy on a 7 or 8 string. This one is hard to ballpark, because I've seen Warmoth Superwide necks as low as $100 (eBay), you can easily order them with options totaling over $500 and the loaded body could be one you have around or cost you several hundred dollars.

You could go a similar route with USA Custom Guitars (USACG); however, they make their neck heels the actual width of the fretboard (the Warmoth fretboards over hand the neck at the heel), so you'd likely have to widen the neck pocket a bit. Also, as Jase from Sutch Guitars pointed out, you can look for an independant luthier to build a custom neck.

These DIY routes have one huge advantage: all standard parts. You won't have to worry about extended width pick-ups, bar/rail pick-ups, etc. That comes at a (potential) cost: no additional width at the bridge. That may or may not be a problem.

The next easiest/cost effective way seems to be to buy a decent, low-end 7-string with a 1-7/8" (48 mm) nut and flat mount bridge. Then you can re-drill or re-make the bridge, re-use the saddles and cut a custom nut. That will be cheaper than the previous options, if you can live with the some strings being over poles in the pick-ups and some not. Replacing the pick-ups could tremendously increase the cost. If you're switching to EMG's, it would also require some routing. The cheapest regular retail solution I've encountered would be buying a set of Carvin C26 pickups -- They have 13-poles per coil. You could also get one or more A26's if you want an HSS or HSH set-up. Another option here would be to buy a Schaller Guitarbridge 3D-6 - that will let you adjust the bridge string spacing up to ~2-1/4" (56.5 mm), but that puts you back in the realm of "normal" string spacing at the bridge.

Along this same line, you could get a TOM-bridged 7-string an replace the bridge with a Schaller Guitarbridge STM -- that will give you a maximum E-to-E width of just over 2-1/4" (57.5 mm), but will definitely require more handiwork because the posts will not align well at all.

These two methods could be as cheap as a couple of hundred dollars to easily over $500, depending on what you start with and what you replace.

Then there's the real of more aggressive "conversions". You can get short-scaled basses with nuts that are 1-7/8" or greater, but you'll have to do a lot more than replace the nut and tweak/replace the bridge. Some of Rondo Music's basses seem to decent starting points, but the effort/price point seemed to be too steep to be worth it. The one exception (IMHO) would be to get a fretless 5 or 6 string short-scale bass, replace the bridge with DIY single string bridges, route the body for slanted pick-ups and fret the neck for a multi-scale guitar. This would take a lot of DIY time & skill, but to get a wide-neck multi-scale for about $600, would be pretty killer.

{EDIT: I forgot "Partcasters" and Warmoth/USACG builds}
If you have easy access to one or more "parts" that can be repurposed, and the skill, you can always go the Partscaster/Frankenstrat route. The amount of effort and price can vary tremendously.

You can also go the route of buying neck, body, etc. from Warmoth or USACG, hardware, pick-ups, finish, etc. and assemble/finish your own. The last time I priced this out, parts, hardware and finish alone were in the same ballpark as a semi-custom Klein-inspired headless from B&V WoodWorks, so the (cost*time) factor made it not worth it, for me, to go that route.
{TIDE}

Then you hit the realm of DIY/Custom builds.  DIYing something custom really isn't going to cost you any more than any other DIY build, but depending on what you want spacing-wise at the bridge, you may have to spend more dollars on pick-ups and more time making a custom bridge. Depending on what tools/materials you have this could be as cheap as about $200, up through the range of the less expensive builders and beyond.

If you're looking at a professional luthier, again, the range is huge. If you're more budget-minded, I suggest looking at Brian Shultz at B&V WoodWorks He's a no-frills builder that seems to put-out good work. He also has the advantages of having made some great-looking headless Klien-inspired models (look on eBay and YouTube) and multi-scaled guitars with straight bridges.

Ray


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## xtrustisyoursx (Apr 12, 2011)

I've seen some really huge dudes play insanely well on a normal guitar. It makes me wonder if there is a technique problem.


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## ElRay (Apr 12, 2011)

xtrustisyoursx said:


> I've seen some really huge dudes play insanely well on a normal guitar. It makes me wonder if there is a technique problem.


Yes, people keep saying that, and poor technique is likely the issue for the majority of folks that complain about narrow nuts. If you've got thick but pointy fingers, then technique/practice would allow you to get your fingers between the strings in the lower registers. Playing style accounts for a lot too. If you only play up the neck, don't play a lot of open/Lifesong chords, don't play fingerstyle, etc. the spacing at the nut likely won't matter.

String spacing at the nut is even an issue even among average finger-sized people. Many, if not all, of the high-end acoustic manufactures make "Fingerstyle" acoustics with wider necks (I've seen off the shelf 6-string acoustics 1-7/8"/48 mm wide at the nut). If you look at a number of the several $k+ custom guitars posted on this site, you'll see a number that have wider string spacing at the nut. Case in point: http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/ex...ustom-made-carbon-fiber-emerald-9-string.html -- that one has ~0.34" (~9 mm) string-to-string spacing at the nut.

I've got thick, blunt fingers. On the last two guitars I own(ed) (a standard acoustic and a Dean Vendetta 7-string), I cannot/could not fret a single string in first or second position without damping one or both of the higher/lower strings, no matter how carefully/slowly I placed my fingers. Nevermind normal playing speed or even fingerpicking. I worked-out some neat, single finger, in the middle of the neck, two/three-string "barre" chords, but I'm tired of playing around too-tight nuts. I like playing Fingerstyle Blues/Classical-based music. I'm an olde fart with kids. My "Me Time" is scarce. I can deal with frustration from my personal limitations, but see no point in putting-up with frustration due to a piece of hardware that can be changed.

Ray


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## r3tr0sp3ct1v3 (Apr 12, 2011)

dude are you like Andre the Giant huge? Thats awesome :d Get a 9 string  or hell go for a 10 string


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## gs_waldemar (Apr 12, 2011)

Wow! I thought my fingers were big, they hardly fit on one piano key

I dont mean to insult you, but I really think with fingers THAT big maybe you should stick to the bass guitar. I dont think its worse playing the bass. It sounds like you'd make a good bass player. I just wanted to suggest it.

Apart from that you could simply use some guitar and stick a self made or different (maybe sevenstring) neck to it as the string width at the bridge isn't the problem. That would only take small changes.


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## ElRay (Apr 12, 2011)

gs_waldemar said:


> Wow! I thought my fingers were big, they hardly fit on one piano key


Sorry, the min-bares are not with the tip of one finger , it's fat fingers plus a bit of double jointedness in the last joint of my index finger. 

Ray


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## ixlramp (Apr 12, 2011)

I use a through neck 35" 6 string bass as a guitar. Then there's no cost or hassle due of instrument modification. High strings for bass are available. You then have all the scale length you could ever need, plus active electronics, and amazing tone due to scale length, instrument mass and a massive neck.


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## ElRay (Apr 12, 2011)

ixlramp said:


> ... You then have all the scale length you could ever need ...


Scale length isn't the issue. It's the space between the strings near the nut. The extra scale length would help indirectly, because then whichever fret is wide enough could be chosen as "1st Position". I'm not sure how I'd like the extra spacing at the bridge. I'd have to experiment with that.


gs_waldemar said:


> I dont mean to insult you, but I really think with fingers THAT big maybe you should stick to the bass guitar. I dont think its worse playing the bass. It sounds like you'd make a good bass player.


I've though of that, but I really don't want to play bass (Wife says I don't have enough rhythm ). Also, I've got fat fingers, not long fingers. 28.625" is about as far as I can go and still be able to span four frets on the 6th string. Finally, the few times I've picked-up a bass, it wasn't much better -- the strings were thicker, so even if the string center to string center distance was greater, the space between strings wasn't much better. Admittedly, these were shorter scaled (which means thicker strings) 4-string (narrower nut) basses, so that might have been the issue.

Ray




Ray


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## ixlramp (Apr 12, 2011)

[ Bajos Alfonso Iturra ]

Anyway, seriously ... I feel the same about guitars, string spacing is too small, and I have slim fingers.


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## SirMyghin (Apr 12, 2011)

ElRay said:


> but I really don't want to play bass (Wife says I don't have enough rhythm ). Also, I've got fat fingers, not long fingers. 28.625" is about as far as I can go and still be able to span four frets on the 6th string. Finally, the few times I've picked-up a bass, it wasn't much better -- the strings were thicker, so even if the string center to string center distance was greater, the space between strings wasn't much better. Admittedly, these were shorter scaled (which means thicker strings) 4-string (narrower nut) basses, so that might have been the issue.
> 
> Ray



When he mentioned smaller strings, I am pretty sure he means string it piccolo, aka string it to normal guitar sound range. What is rather ironic is you mentioned Lifeson chords, and that guy has serious big hands. They are farking massive. I remember noticing it on the time machine tour and was like holy hell they are snausages for fingers.


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## BigMitts (Apr 12, 2011)

I'm the guy who started this thread last August. Why is it that when some of us say we have large (circumference) fingers everyone thinks we're over 7' tall? Height has nothing to do with it. There are guards in basketball who are 6'2" and weigh 160 lbs, and there are guards in football who are 6'2" and weigh 320 lbs. Same height, but one guy is literally twice the size of the other. Since they're the same height, where do you think all that extra weight is distributed? Thicker bones, more muscle mass, wider feet to support all that weight, and.... now wait for it.... big strong hands!

Most guitarists aren't big guys, so it's no surprise to me that off the shelf instruments fit them just fine, but not all people are that size, so the idea that a guitar should be 'one size fits all' is ridiculous.

I don't expect guitar manufacturers to have a 'Big & Tall' product line just to satisfy a very small demographic of guitarists, but it'd be nice if there were some DIY options out there for those of us who would like to mod an existing instrument to fit our larger proportions without going some totally custom route that costs over $2000.


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## Mordacain (Apr 12, 2011)

BigMitts said:


> I'm the guy who started this thread last August. Why is it that when some of us say we have large (circumference) fingers everyone thinks we're over 7' tall? Height has nothing to do with it. There are guards in basketball who are 6'2" and weigh 160 lbs, and there are guards in football who are 6'2" and weigh 320 lbs. Same height, but one guy is literally twice the size of the other. Since they're the same height, where do you think all that extra weight is distributed? Thicker bones, more muscle mass, wider feet to support all that weight, and.... now wait for it.... big strong hands!
> 
> Most guitarists aren't big guys, so it's no surprise to me that off the shelf instruments fit them just fine, but not all people are that size, so the idea that a guitar should be 'one size fits all' is ridiculous.
> 
> I don't expect guitar manufacturers to have a 'Big & Tall' product line just to satisfy a very small demographic of guitarists, but it'd be nice if there were some DIY options out there for those of us who would like to mod an existing instrument to fit our larger proportions without going some totally custom route that costs over $2000.



I checked the Big Lou linked someone posted earlier and it seemed like a decent bet to try (cheap too)!

MoM also noted already the Warmoth wide neck, which is not seriously expensive. You can couple that with any body you want from them or just a standard strat body.


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## BigMitts (Apr 12, 2011)

The Warmoth superwide neck is standard scale though, and I want something 28-30" in scale length. Warmoth makes a 7-string baritone neck that's 28 5/8" scale, but I'm pretty sure it won't fit just any body like the superwide does.


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## big_aug (Apr 12, 2011)

I'd like to see some pics just because I'm a pretty big dude, and it's not uncommon for people to point out that I have huge hands.

You gotta be ginormous.


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## Eric Christian (Apr 12, 2011)

BigMitts, How does a Classical Guitar work for you? The fretboard on a Classical is really wide. I grew up on a farm without electricity and I learned exclusively on such a beast and thats why I'm so comfortable on an 8 string I guess. If the string spacing on a Classical works for you then I'm thinking the best bet is to have a custom guitar made to your personal specifications.


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## Tom Drinkwater (Apr 13, 2011)

Hipshot makes a wide 6 string bridge with one of their 7 string base plates. This is what Jim Soloway used on his wide neck 6 strings. No matter what you do you'll end up needing to do some customizing and will probably drop some $$$ on this project. I think that the Brice is probably the best thing going right now for the kind of guitar you want.


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## BigMitts (Apr 13, 2011)

Eric Christian said:


> BigMitts, How does a Classical Guitar work for you?


I have a classical I play occasionally, and for off the shelf instruments it fits me reasonably well. I just took some measurements... nut width is 2 1/16", 52 mm, and the string spacing at the bridge is just over 2 1/4", 57.5 mm. A little larger on all fronts and it'd be perfect.



Tom Drinkwater said:


> Hipshot makes a wide 6 string bridge with one of their 7 string base plates.


Could you point it out to me on their website? I just looked but I couldn't find it. I looked at the "modern" fixed bridge with 2 1/4" spacing, and they list both .125 and .175 fixed bridges for 6, 7, & 8 strings guitars, but I don't know what those decimals refer to.



Tom Drinkwater said:


> I think that the Brice is probably the best thing going right now for the kind of guitar you want.


Yeah, it does seem to be really close. I'm put off by the 3 1/4" width of the neck at the 24th fret though. If I could find a used one I'd probably buy it though just to experiment with it.


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## ixlramp (Apr 14, 2011)

I am bemused as to why guitars have tapering strings, it's not as if the neck is wide. It would be nice to have parallel strings at 10mm spacing or something ...


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## Hollowway (Apr 14, 2011)

ixlramp said:


> I am bemused as to why guitars have tapering strings, it's not as if the neck is wide. It would be nice to have parallel strings at 10mm spacing or something ...



Yeah, I think that's how Durero felt as well, and hist custom builds do just that. He's got some really cool ideas he's implemented and that parallel stringing is one of them.


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## sutchguitars (Apr 14, 2011)

Regarding the hipshot bridge!!The .125 and .175 is the bridge thickeness basically!


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