# Sperzel Locking vs Hipshot Grip Lock



## jsousa (Mar 19, 2009)

in detail, does anyone know the pros/cons of each?


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## Elysian (Mar 19, 2009)

ratio is different, otherwise, both are made to to very tight tolerances, and both are great tuners. Sperzels offer more options, like open back or closed back, soundlok or trimlok or normal tuners, 4 styles of knobs in all kinds of colors, finishes, or even materials, etc. both require drilling holes in most situations, but hipshots are a little easier to install since they use a screw instead of a guide pin. I personally prefer Sperzels, but they are both excellent tuners.


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## jsousa (Mar 19, 2009)

Elysian said:


> ratio is different, otherwise, both are made to to very tight tolerances, and both are great tuners. Sperzels offer more options, like open back or closed back, soundlok or trimlok or normal tuners, 4 styles of knobs in all kinds of colors, finishes, or even materials, etc. both require drilling holes in most situations, but hipshots are a little easier to install since they use a screw instead of a guide pin. I personally prefer Sperzels, but they are both excellent tuners.



So you prefer sperzel just for the options they offer? Or for others reasons as well?



Elysian said:


> ratio is different, otherwise, both are made to to very tight tolerances, and both are great tuners. Sperzels offer more options, like open back or closed back, soundlok or trimlok or normal tuners, 4 styles of knobs in all kinds of colors, finishes, or even materials, etc. both require drilling holes in most situations, but hipshots are a little easier to install since they use a screw instead of a guide pin. I personally prefer Sperzels, but they are both excellent tuners.


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 19, 2009)

I believe Sperzels are considerably cheaper than Hipshots.


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## jsousa (Mar 19, 2009)

Elysian said:


> ratio is different, otherwise, both are made to to very tight tolerances, and both are great tuners. Sperzels offer more options, like open back or closed back, soundlok or trimlok or normal tuners, 4 styles of knobs in all kinds of colors, finishes, or even materials, etc. both require drilling holes in most situations, but hipshots are a little easier to install since they use a screw instead of a guide pin. I personally prefer Sperzels, but they are both excellent tuners.



So why do you prefer them?


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## hufschmid (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm a hipshot lover but everybody knows that 

I just love the design itself really and i have tested both brands, both are wonderfull and very precise but I myself prefer the hipshot's...


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## jsousa (Mar 19, 2009)

Sorry for the double post


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 19, 2009)

jsousa said:


> So why do you prefer them?



Calm down, you've asked Elysian already .

EDIT: My apologies, it was a double post .


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## Elysian (Mar 19, 2009)

jsousa said:


> So why do you prefer them?



the options are awesome, the open back tuners with pearloid buttons are barenone the lightest tuner on the market, and they are just so tight and precise, the 12:1 ration doesn't even bother me, i actually find i prefer it. they keep tune incredibly well, and Sperzel is a great company to deal with. I've got nothing but good things to say about Lori and her customer service(though she did swear once while I was talking to her, because her email was acting up  luckily i'm not easily offended  )


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## hufschmid (Mar 19, 2009)

I have a funny story I had once with Jason (Hipshot) 

I was like sending him mails for 6 days without any reply when in fact all of my messages went to his spam mail box....

So be sure to add a reception notice when you send your mails 

It was driving me insane


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 19, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> I have a funny story I had once with Jason (Hipshot)
> 
> I was like sending him mails for 6 days without any reply when in fact all of my messages went to his spam mail box....
> 
> ...



Perhaps he was trying to tell you something?


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## hufschmid (Mar 19, 2009)

caughtinamosh said:


> Perhaps he was trying to tell you something?



 no


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## jsousa (Mar 19, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> I'm a hipshot lover but everybody knows that
> 
> I just love the design itself really and i have tested both brands, both are wonderfull and very precise but I myself prefer the hipshot's...



What about the hipshots make you pick them over Sperzel exactly?



hufschmid said:


> I'm a hipshot lover but everybody knows that
> 
> I just love the design itself really and i have tested both brands, both are wonderfull and very precise but I myself prefer the hipshot's...



so you prefer the hipshots only for the design?

Wow doubleposts are annoyingggg


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## hufschmid (Mar 19, 2009)

design (open gear) and they are more classy to me....

Also they are more expensive so maybe this can make you consider which ones you may want to purshase .....

But in all cases, the prices-quality of the Hipshot to me is perfect


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## Elysian (Mar 19, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> design (open gear) and they are more classy to me....
> 
> Also they are more expensive so maybe this can make you consider which ones you may want to purshase .....
> 
> But in all cases, the prices-quality of the Hipshot to me is perfect



you can get sperzels with open gear too


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## hufschmid (Mar 19, 2009)

Yeah I must try them one day, I must admit that I did not test the open gear sperzels yet...


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## Elysian (Mar 19, 2009)

hufschmid said:


> Yeah I must try them one day, I must admit that I did not test the open gear sperzels yet...



they're pretty much the same as the closed gear ones, just a bit lighter  i really like the open back design of both sperzel and hipshot.


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## jsousa (Mar 19, 2009)

i think hipshot and sperzel both look great. i cant decide which i prefer though...is the ratio diff. a big deal to you guys?


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## Elysian (Mar 19, 2009)

jsousa said:


> i think hipshot and sperzel both look great. i cant decide which i prefer though...is the ratio diff. a big deal to you guys?



Never has been for me. These Sperzels are the shortest ratio tuner I've ever had, and they tune up perfectly fine and hold pitch flawlessly.


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## jsousa (Mar 19, 2009)

Elysian said:


> Never has been for me. These Sperzels are the shortest ratio tuner I've ever had, and they tune up perfectly fine and hold pitch flawlessly.



so would u say quality and tolerances have more an effect then the ratio, making the ratio almost...gimmiky?


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## Elysian (Mar 19, 2009)

jsousa said:


> so would u say quality and tolerances have more an effect then the ratio, making the ratio almost...gimmiky?



Possibly. I'd say Sperzel, Hipshot, and Schaller are the highest quality tuner you will find, and they all hold pitch and work very very smoothly. I've never tried LSR's with their 40:1 ration, but quite honestly, I don't want to. I don't want to have to turn a knob 40 times to equal the 12 times I have to turn a Sperzel, might as well hook it up to a drill at that point.


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## Sepultorture (Mar 19, 2009)

i can't wait to try my guitar out next week with my sperzels, and i'd much rather turn this thing less times than as apposed to more, but really i think it boils down to preferance, and price, so really man, it's up to you, either way i don't think ones is better than the other, just a matter of preferance, but i would find price to be a defining factor in this case


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## Elysian (Mar 19, 2009)

Sepultorture said:


> i can't wait to try my guitar out next week with my sperzels, and i'd much rather turn this thing less times than as apposed to more, but really i think it boils down to preferance, and price, so really man, it's up to you, either way i don't think ones is better than the other, just a matter of preferance, but i would find price to be a defining factor in this case



 I can get you a 7 string set of Sperzels in almost any config(besides gold) for about 60 shipped, whereas a 7 string set of Hipshots(in black, chrome and gold go up from there) are going to be about 75 shipped(in the US and Canado of course, elsewhere is a little more for shipping)


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## Durero (Mar 20, 2009)

Elysian said:


> I've never tried LSR's with their 40:1 ration, but quite honestly, I don't want to. I don't want to have to turn a knob 40 times to equal the 12 times I have to turn a Sperzel, might as well hook it up to a drill at that point.


The way the "ratio" specs are listed for LSR's and Steinberger gearless tuners is quite stupid and can very easily lead to this kind of misunderstanding. 

For these gearless tuners the ratio actually refers to threads per inch, unlike geared tuners where the ratio refers to how many turns of the knob per turn of the tuning post. So with an LSR you'd have to turn the knob 40 times to stretch the string an inch - which is far far more than you need to bring it up to pitch. Since the strings are being pulled directly rather than wrapped around a post, their pitch changes quite fast, and the high threads-per-inch ratio is needed to keep a smooth feel and easy movement on the knob.

So to compare ratios between geared and gearless tuners ends up being completely meaningless and the gearless manufacturers should label their specs much more clearly than they do.

I've used these LSR's and Steinbergers extensively and they don't require noticeably more turns when re-stringing than geared tuners. They're just a fundamentally different design. I'd highly recommend them, but I also like the two locking geared tuners we're discussing here.


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## zimbloth (Mar 20, 2009)

I've had nothing but great experiences with pretty much all locking tuners. Be it Schaller, Sperzel, Gotoh, LSR, Grover, Planet Waves, etc. I'm sure the new Hipshots are nice too. Really I'd just go with whatever you think looks best and is the easiest replacement to your existing tuners.

Like I told you earlier on the phone, I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. They're all good. I personally prefer the aesthetics of the Sperzels however.


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## Harry (Mar 21, 2009)

I can't speak for the Hipshots, as I've never used them, but as someone who used the Sperzel locking tuners for 3 years on my (formerly) main six string, they worked extremely well, held tune for days on end and were extremely well made.


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## darren (Mar 21, 2009)

I had a great conversation with Bob Sperzel yesterday, and he explained some of his design decisions to me. Using aluminum allows the machine heads to not only be lightweight and precise, but by using an anodized finish instead of electroplating, he can manufacture to very tight tolerances and maintain those tolerances after the tuners are finished. 

With electroplating, there is no way to precisely control the thickness of the plating, so by design, cast and plated tuners have to have looser tolerances to allow for variations in the thickness of the plating. This results in a considerable amount of post wobble, which is nearly entirely absent from Sperzels.

So while the Sperzel gear ratio is not as fine as other tuners, they're more precise in their actual use, because there's less play between the worm gear and the tuning gear, and the post doesn't wobble around.


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## TheSixthWheel (Mar 21, 2009)

I'll have a new set of Schaller M6 rear locking tuners in a week or so. I'll add my voice to the choir full of praise being sung for locking tuners


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## DslDwg (Mar 21, 2009)

Got these from Elysian haven't hooked 'em up yet obviously so I'll hold judgement on operation - they are my first set of Sperzels. Don't get me wrong I think the Hipshot's look badass also - but I love the way these look - and as said previously they are super light. While not the lockers - the way they string is very interesting the string actually goes into a hole through the body of the tuner then it grabs around the post so it still require only a minimum of wraps.

Here's a little more neck porn for you guys


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## darren (Mar 21, 2009)

Wow... that's a pretty neck. 

Sperzel actually calls these tuners "friction lock"... the string gets bent on a couple of sharp angles where it comes out of the tuning post, and apparently that gives it a fairly strong grip on the post. I definitely want to try these out. I believe Jim Soloway was among the first to use these, and he sings the praises of them. I'm not sure i'd use these on a trem-equipped guitar, but with a fixed bridge, they should work just fine.


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## DslDwg (Mar 21, 2009)

Yep exactly - if you notice the hole in the gear - the string actually feeds through there from the top - once I get it installed and strung up I can include some pictures. Not sure I would use them on a trem equipped guitar either - but this is going on the tele in my avatar (fixed bridge) so I was super excited to try them.


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## Elysian (Mar 21, 2009)

darren said:


> Wow... that's a pretty neck.
> 
> Sperzel actually calls these tuners "friction lock"... the string gets bent on a couple of sharp angles where it comes out of the tuning post, and apparently that gives it a fairly strong grip on the post. I definitely want to try these out. I believe Jim Soloway was among the first to use these, and he sings the praises of them. I'm not sure i'd use these on a trem-equipped guitar, but with a fixed bridge, they should work just fine.



 I was stoked to get them in, they are a pretty awesome concept, and I'll definitely be trying them in the future.


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## sworth9411 (Mar 21, 2009)

I would say go with Sperzel, They are extremely reasonable and hold tune perfect (and look friggin awesome) After stretching my strings almost a week ago I havent had to tune up since.....I play every day at least an hour....Adam is awesome to deal with too I wil be buying at least another set from him shortly making it set number 3 for me.....


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## darren (Mar 23, 2009)

When i had my Parker, i wasn't playing it very much, and it pretty much lived in its case. I'd pull it out a few times a year and not once did i have to tune it. Absolutely incredible.


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## caughtinamosh (Mar 23, 2009)

darren said:


> When i had my Parker, i wasn't playing it very much, and it pretty much lived in its case. I'd pull it out a few times a year and not once did i have to tune it. Absolutely incredible.



You had a Parker, and yet you "wasn't playing it very much." 

Whyever not?




*And yes, I take the blame for all bad grammar


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## DslDwg (Apr 7, 2009)

I know they are not locking but thought I'd show you guys how these things string.

So it says you're supposed to turn the tuner until the hole is facing away from the bridge. Then you slide the string down the hole like so:






The string actually goes through the tuner and out the back of the tuner:






Then you press the string into the groove on the top of the tuner and turn the tuner to bring the string to pitch. These make re-stringing super easy they grab the strings really well so no multi turns are needed. Again don't know if I'd use with a Trem and a lot of wanking but for a fixed bridge they work and look awesome.


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## darren (Apr 7, 2009)

Aha! Now i get it.


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## hufschmid (Apr 7, 2009)

Ok now I'm going to have to order a set and test them out, they seam to me brilliant


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