# Octave4plus Custom .375 gauge string



## Danukenator (May 4, 2013)

Dayum! I just saw this pop up in my newsfeed. Basically, it's designed for a guy that wanted to tune to F000 on a standard 34" scale bass. The string next to it is a .217.

Anyone have a clip of anything tuned this low? Or even remotely close?


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## DrAleksi (May 4, 2013)

Forgive me for sounding stupid at this point, I'm a 7 string fretless player and aspiring to a 12 string fretless, Yves Carbonne style... But isn't F000 like, 5Hz or something stupidly low? WAY beyond the range of human hearing?
I've got insanely good ears and my limit is about 15Hz... F000 is like, an octave and a half down. That's crazy. Whoever's it is, they definitely need an insane speaker system to reproduce sounds that low
I'm really quite worried that this was done. I'm all for freedom of expression and extended range instruments and stuff, but even to me this seems a bit insane


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## Danukenator (May 4, 2013)

I agree, I'm getting a ten string guitar but F000 is literally only going to be felt. And you'll need one hell of a speaker system to even get people to feel it.


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## muffinbutton (May 4, 2013)

I can only imagine playing that must feel like trying to play a solid steel bar.


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## ixlramp (May 4, 2013)

Heh that looks funny ... 6 layers. This is cool and perhaps explains the rumours that 14 and 15 string basses exist ... i can well imagine an owners reluctance to post photos online considering some of the replies that would follow heh.

Here's 8 hz acoustic which is clearly audible, in Sydney town hall (my hometown):



... and 4 hz electronic (first 3 mins), this is a fun video with HQ headphones:


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## Hollowway (May 4, 2013)

Having read about inharmonicity, isn't that string actually going to _behave_ like a steel bar, too? That's quite thick at such a short length. 

Inharmonicity aside, I'm guessing the guy has no intention to sound the fundamental, but the note will still sound super low based on the harmonics. I'm wondering if he will be using the note, or more having fun with it. Hopefully he's on here, because I would love to hear what his plans are.


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## MikeH (May 4, 2013)

That seems more like an experiment than using it for practicality's sake. I can't think of any situation where that would be potentially useful. My side project uses D0 bass at 34" with a .222, which is ridiculous enough.


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## Kroaton (May 4, 2013)

F1 - 43.6hz - The last F on a piano , your ear hears everything from the first harmonic (fundamental/1st harmonic - 43.6hz ; 2nd harmonic - 87.2hz ; 3rd harmonic - 174.4....etc) upwards.

F0 - 21.8hz - An octave below an 8 string guitar tuned down a half step.
You can feel the fundamental and hear everything from the second harmonic (octave - F1 basically) , and through a proper high-end system (Bag End , fEARful , Club Sound System) you might be able to actually hear/distinguish the pitch of the fundamental.

You will not be able to fully intonate the string on a normal scale bass. 35"+ is required.

F00 - 10.9hz - You will not hear the first harmonic , nor the second , volume wise it's going to be way lower in output than any of your other strings (maybe a compressor with the threshold really high coupled with some sort of exciter could even out everything , though I seriously doubt it)

I have no ideea what kind of scale lenght (maybe 38"-40" ?) would be required for this to be intonatable or if the laws of physics allow such a huge string to be intonatable at all.

.
.
.
.

F000 - 5.45hz - The tuning of OP's string. <--- I can count to potato.

It's near the resonant frequency of a building though and lower than anything ever recorded from a whale.


And to OP. I don't really think it's possible to record anything that low on normal non uber-high-end-studio-grade A/D convertors.
All of the commercial sound cards out there usually highpass the input at 16-20hz to keep "unwanted" noise out.


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## angus (May 5, 2013)

Hollowway said:


> Having read about inharmonicity, isn't that string actually going to _behave_ like a steel bar, too? That's quite thick at such a short length.
> 
> Inharmonicity aside, I'm guessing the guy has no intention to sound the fundamental, but the note will still sound super low based on the harmonics. I'm wondering if he will be using the note, or more having fun with it. Hopefully he's on here, because I would love to hear what his plans are.



By the same corollary, most of the harmonics will also be out of tune with one another (more than normal), resulting in a string that is going to sound like shit. 

Best of luck to him.


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## angus (May 5, 2013)

This is, of course, not even to mention the witness point problem against the bridge- that in itself is going to cause a huge problem in a set up like that.


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## Hollowway (May 5, 2013)

angus said:


> This is, of course, not even to mention the witness point problem against the bridge- that in itself is going to cause a huge problem set up like that.



What does that mean? You mean the windings travel too far over the saddle?


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## angus (May 5, 2013)

Two things:

(1) The string isn't actually in the bridge saddle- it's sitting on top of the saddle housing itself (the big square piece) because it is too wide to fit inside the way that they've wound it. This also means it's sitting up like 3/8", and instead of having a single contact point, it has two, which is going to cause some interesting string dynamics.
(2) It is still tapering as it comes across it's contact point(s). Generally when you design strings, you either make them core-only going across the contact point, which is a common string design (but not one I'm a fan of due to inharmonicity issues caused by unequal linear density across the vibrating length), OR you have equal string thickness across the entire string between the witness points (ideal). This is neither, which is most likely a consequence of winding without measuring the actual distance from ball-end to saddle for this bass. This will result in some very strange edge effects in the vibration. 

IE, fail.


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## InfinityCollision (May 5, 2013)

The string crosses the saddle at the third, maybe the fourth winding. That impedes the vibration of the string at the bridge since it's less flexible at the contact point.

Hell, with a string that big the practical "contact point" might actually be the outsides of the saddle channel, which could fuck with various things. Hard to tell from the crappy pic. Also is it just me or are there some irregularities in the winding?

^'d


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## angus (May 6, 2013)

Hard to tell, but it does look like it has a kink travelling down the winding in the longitudinal direction. You see this occasionally in piano strings, but I believe they get discarded. I've never seen it in bass strings, but no doubt these are much more difficult to produce.


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## Danukenator (May 6, 2013)

It did strike me as odd that they didn't properly taper it. Especially considering the other strings seem to have a proper taper. 

Perhaps this was a "let's see if we can even make it" deal and the real deal will come next.


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## ixlramp (May 6, 2013)

EDIT It is a test string, see post 20.

No point in comparing this string's tone to normal bass strings as it is something very different, yes it will be stiff and inharmonic and lacking in harmonics but the customer will obviously be well aware of this. Have you ever plucked a steel bar or steel fence or something and thought the sound was cool even though by bass standards it would be considered bad?

Obviously not a fail or a mistake of not measuring correctly, this is Octave 4 Plus after all, if anything they are anal and precise about things. This may be a shot of the string being tested on one of Garry's basses before being sent to the customer. Also, if the core was sitting properly in the saddle the windings would hang down too far and touch the frets, you wouldn't be able to raise the saddle far enough to avoid this.

Looking at the steep angle of the string as it rises from the ball (look at the angle of the core and wrap wire) it looks possible there is only one contact point at the 3rd layer of wrap wire. You can see the saddle itself is very low, in fact the screws have been removed i can't see them. Having a contact point halfway across a taper is not necessarily a problem, and is actually better than a contact point at full gauge. The saddle itself may have been filed down to avoid secondary contact points.

As for the bumpy looking string, this is a result of how the different gauges of wrap wire rest upon each other.


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## angus (May 6, 2013)

ixlramp said:


> No point in comparing this string's tone to normal bass strings as it is something very different, yes it will be stiff and inharmonic and lacking in harmonics but the customer will obviously be well aware of this. Have you ever plucked a steel bar or steel fence or something and thought the sound was cool even though by bass standards it would be considered shit?
> 
> Obviously not a fail or a mistake of not measuring correctly, this is Octave 4 Plus after all, if anything they are anal and precise about things. This may be a shot of the string being tested on one of Garry's basses before being sent to the customer. Also, if the core was sitting properly in the saddle the windings would hang down too far and touch the frets, you wouldn't be able to raise the saddle far enough to avoid this.
> 
> ...



I don't buy it- I'm sorry. 

Unless it is just a test on a random bass, then it is a measuring fail because there is no good reason for wanting to have the bridge and string contact this way. It definitely is not touching the saddle on the bridge, as I know this bridge very well and know that that string is not getting in that channel, which means the system is wrong. It should be siting on the saddle, and if the string touches the frets, the system should be redesigned to allow the saddle to sit enough to allow the string to be set up properly (ie, longer adjustment screws, or use a different bridge setup). 

The idea that intonation doesn't matter for a setup like this is the whole concept behind why this setup even "works"- as soon as you say that it doesn't have to be in tune, sound good, or be sounded near anything that has westernized pitch, then it essentially removes any criteria for making a qualitative assessment of the system.

I double checked with a friend who designs pianos for a well-known piano firm, and he said that the lumpiness you see in the string would be considered a manufacturing error/defect by any piano maker, and not something considered acceptable due to the potential for harmonic distortion. It is hard for me to hear that O4P is extremely anal and precise when that occurs (knowing full well that I'm sure this string is extremely difficult to make, it still has to be made correctly) mixed with this very strange picture.

If it is just for a mockup (and it probably is, reasonably speaking), then fine, all cool, but the idea that a string like this could be slapped onto a bass without quite a bit of modification to make even the setup right is silly to me.

Maybe I'm just being an anal engineer, though.


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## ixlramp (May 6, 2013)

Yeah i agree with most of that, i take back "intonation doesn't matter", personally i would do everything to get that string working as well as possible, the short taper instead of contact-core confuses me too, perhaps there is some reasonable reason for it. O4P are certainly anal (meant as a compliment from a perfectionist).


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## angus (May 6, 2013)

Hhmm. Well, interesting to see what comes of it! I wonder what the instrument is.


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## ixlramp (May 6, 2013)

It's a test string ... the Villex pickup made me suspect that is one of Garry's basses.

"Here is a photo of a test string for a string set we are making for a customer that is tuned to F000 to F#0 ( about 5Hz) on a 34" scale bass guitar. The gauge is a .375 . To put things in perspective, the string next to it is a .217."
From Octave 4 Plus FB page.


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## Danukenator (May 6, 2013)

Well durr...I guess I should have seen that.


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## Sepultorture (May 6, 2013)

christ it doesn't even fit in the bloody saddle


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## Hollowway (May 6, 2013)

I reeeeeallly want the owner of the bass to post here when he gets the real McCoy. I'd love to see it and hear it. And I'd love it even more if this were not just an uber low 4 string, but instead a bass that had >12 strings. But it sounds like that's not the case.


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## ixlramp (May 7, 2013)

I had to update my frequency chart, a successful F000 would make a 16 string bass possible.

Octave number follows the convention of 'Scientific pitch notation'.

Frequency (Hz) / octave / note / ERB / ERG

493.88 4 B
466.16 4 A# Bb
440.00 4 A ...................................... A
415.30 4 G# Ab ........ Ab
392.00 4 G
369.99 4 F# Gb
349.23 4 F
329.63 4 E ...................................... E
311.13 4 D# Eb ........ Eb
293.66 4 D
277.18 4 C# Db
261.63 4 C

246.94 3 B ...................................... B
233.08 3 A# Bb ........ Bb
220.00 3 A
207.65 3 G# Ab
196.00 3 G ...................................... G
185.00 3 F# Gb
174.61 3 F ................ F
164.81 3 E
155.56 3 D# Eb
146.83 3 D ...................................... D
138.59 3 C# Db
130.81 3 C ................ C

123.47 2 B
116.54 2 A# Bb
110.00 2 A ...................................... A
103.83 2 G# Ab
098.00 2 G ................ G
092.50 2 F# Gb
087.31 2 F
082.41 2 E ...................................... E
077.78 2 D# Eb
073.42 2 D ................ D
069.30 2 C# Db
065.41 2 C

061.74 1 B ...................................... B
058.27 1 A# Bb
055.00 1 A ................ A
051.91 1 G# Ab
049.00 1 G
046.25 1 F# Gb .............................. F#
043.65 1 F
041.20 1 E ................ E
038.89 1 D# Eb
036.71 1 D
034.65 1 C# Db .............................. C#
032.70 1 C

030.87 0 B ................ B
029.14 0 A# Bb
027.50 0 A
025.96 0 G# Ab .............................. G#
024.50 0 G
023.12 0 F# Gb ........ F#
021.83 0 F
020.60 0 E
019.45 0 D# Eb
018.35 0 D
017.32 0 C# Db ........ C#
016.35 0 C

15.43 00 B
14.57 00 A# Bb
13.75 00 A
12.98 00 G# Ab ........ G#
12.25 00 G
11.56 00 F# Gb
10.91 00 F
10.30 00 E
09.72 00 D# Eb ........ D#
09.18 00 D
08.66 00 C# Db
08.18 00 C

7.72 000 B
7.29 000 A# Bb ........ A#
6.88 000 A
6.49 000 G# Ab
6.13 000 G
5.78 000 F# Gb
5.46 000 F ............... F
5.15 000 E
4.86 000 D# Eb
4.59 000 D
4.33 000 C# Db
4.09 000 C


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## Shrooms (May 7, 2013)

So essentially this bass is in Drop Q.

Awesome..


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## BIG ND SWEATY (May 7, 2013)

thick as a baby's arm


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## Kroaton (May 7, 2013)

http://t.qkme.me/3ocg0g.jpg


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## Winspear (May 7, 2013)

Whilst I have nothing but applause for experimentation and pushing the boundaries..looking at Ixlramps chart just makes me wonder what use this string can really have, haha. I play 21Hz F, almost an octave below standard bass. Yves Carbonne strings starting from BEADG an octave down, so 15hz B. The few songs where that string is played open, I do enjoy the sound on a good system. To go MORE THAN AN OCTAVE below that however..

Metal .375 inches of metal.

Next up, we tune to this:
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Black hole hums B flat

I did actually try and calculate the scale length that would be required for this with a .254 gauge string..I ended up just getting annoyed that calculators wouldn't show long enough numbers without going all mathy on my ass


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## InfinityCollision (May 7, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> I did actually try and calculate the scale length that would be required for this with a .254 gauge string..I ended up just getting annoyed that calculators wouldn't show long enough numbers without going all mathy on my ass



http://www.ekips.org/tools/guitar/originaltools/dinfterF.html

If I did it right, I get ~9 ft at standard tensions 

The tone would be exceptionally clear though  

EDIT: Whoops, went down one too many octaves when I was counting  Should be right now.


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## Winspear (May 7, 2013)

I can assure you it's a LOT more than that, haha. We effectively need to double standard scale 57 times...
I tried it and came up with around 3674937295934324700 inches...

Can it djent?


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## InfinityCollision (May 7, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> I can assure you it's a LOT more than that, haha. We effectively need to double standard scale 57 times...
> I tried it and came up with around 3674937295934324700 inches...



Oh, you mean the black hole


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## Sepultorture (May 7, 2013)

Someone call San Fran, me thinks they have a bridge cable missing


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## Kroaton (May 7, 2013)

We could tune the snow/rain cover from a stadium and then crash a few planes into it.


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## Vinchester (May 7, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> Next up, we tune to this:
> BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Black hole hums B flat



So that's the tuning Arcturus use?


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## Danukenator (May 9, 2013)

So, here is the real deal. It looks a lot cleaner in terms of its construction and it has a proper taper.


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## KhzDonut (May 9, 2013)

I got a chance to try one of Skip's Bass's and it had the Octave-Below-B (B0? or B00? I can never remember... And Google is a whole other tab in my browser... So... Far... Away...) And while my bowels certainly felt the fundamental quite clearly, and it was super sweet to be able to visibly see the string traveling back and forth... I just have to finally admit... There is a "too low to be practical for almost anything." At least for anything I would do...

This .375 string? It's much like sending a millipede to the moon with a slingshot. I fully support NASA doing it. I fully support funding it. I fully support the brave men and women who would spend their long, cold nights sweating furiously over blueprints and $0.25 vending-machine coffee to design the damn thing.

But damnit... Once you've built it, you just have to step back and say... "well, THAT was a big, awesome waste of time."

I totally applaud Mr. Goodman for building it, but... DAMNIT, man, WHHYYY???


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## CrazyBass (May 10, 2013)

Really though, why the hell do you need to tune THAT low?


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## akinari (May 10, 2013)

5... hz?





I've never seen a thread that told my facial muscles to do that until now. Clips would be cool, but only if I'm able to rent a local theater's sound system.


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## TemjinStrife (May 10, 2013)

I'm actually very curious as to HOW he is going to tune that. Most tuners won't pick up the pitch, or the harmonics (which will be out of tune anyway due to its inharmonicity) and there's no way you're going to be able to tune it by ear


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## Winspear (May 11, 2013)

TemjinStrife said:


> I'm actually very curious as to HOW he is going to tune that. Most tuners won't pick up the pitch, or the harmonics (which will be out of tune anyway due to its inharmonicity) and there's no way you're going to be able to tune it by ear



Perhaps a strobe light  I remember that awesome thread here where somebody was creating a sub-bass sample instrument to be triggered via a guitar with a MIDI pickup - the samples were made on some absurdly long bench and a strobe light was used for tuning. Same concept as a strobe tuner - it will appear still when in tune.


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## KhzDonut (May 11, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> Perhaps a strobe light  I remember that awesome thread here where somebody was creating a sub-bass sample instrument to be triggered via a guitar with a MIDI pickup - the samples were made on some absurdly long bench and a strobe light was used for tuning. Same concept as a strobe tuner - it will appear still when in tune.



That's pretty genius, actually. Now comes the problem of finding amps/cabinets to reproduce the sound. Maybe just set the bass itself up to another strobe light, so when you hit that low note it just strobes the stage. You could literally use the bass itself as a visual metronome for keeping the band in time. Who needs the drummer to count "one two three" when you can just hit a Mega-Low-F#?

Silly? Perhaps... Pointless? Perhaps... More so than tuning that low? Debatable.


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## Kroaton (May 11, 2013)

If he tunes all the way up to C (8hz) the Bag End Infrasub-18 will be able to reproduce it cleanly and clearly as day light.

He won't be able to hear it, but certain animals might. We've yet to discover any such animals as this study shows, but some day one creature might be able to go "Crah" or "Bark" or "Oogly Boogly" after hearing this low F#.


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## DrAleksi (May 11, 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...69087602.17322.130940250270524&type=1&theater
Fingers crossed you guys can see that. But I think it might just be the amplifier that you need to play this string properly.


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## Hollowway (May 11, 2013)

EtherealEntity said:


> Perhaps a strobe light  I remember that awesome thread here where somebody was creating a sub-bass sample instrument to be triggered via a guitar with a MIDI pickup - the samples were made on some absurdly long bench and a strobe light was used for tuning. Same concept as a strobe tuner - it will appear still when in tune.



Yeah, that was Variant and his Mariana bench.


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## GenghisCoyne (May 11, 2013)

arite mods, we've gone far enough. you may now shut the site down.


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## ixlramp (Feb 19, 2021)

Octave 4 Plus only posts photos like these to Facebook, unfortunately, so i am sharing this here, many people are not on Facebook.
From back to front: 1 x .415, 2 x .355, 2 x .325, 2 x .280. Wound for a 40" scale.
The .415 is the largest gauge string i know of, and is intended for pitches down to F000, 6 fourths below bass guitar B, approximately 5Hz. That would make 15 strings tuned in fourths possible.
http://www.garrygoodman.com/octave4plus.com.htm

I link again to this video of an amplified organ producing 8Hz and 4Hz pitches, showing how such tones are reproducable (with the right equipment), audible and even potentially usable in music:


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