# Melodic Death Metal/Trash metal songwriting



## Takse5050 (Feb 9, 2010)

Ok, so currently I have been covering a lot of bands by ear, working on getting my chops up to par. But now I'm at the point to where I would really like to write songs that, well, quite frankly don't suck . So what exactly should I be focused on studying in music theory? I've got alot of the basics but I'm just curious what I need to know to write nice melodies that lead into a very melodic but yet technically challenging solo (this is my goal anyway ). Any answers will be appreciated.


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## Dave Camarillo (Feb 17, 2010)

I am not an authority on writing but this may give you ideas. 

I work on a scale and stay within that scale using powerchords and single notes here and there. When I here something that sounds good I form a riff. When I have that down I use my Flip to capture it. 

Then I repeat.


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## goherpsNderp (Feb 18, 2010)

Dave Camarillo said:


> I am not an authority on writing but this may give you ideas.
> 
> I work on a scale and stay within that scale using powerchords and single notes here and there. When I here something that sounds good I form a riff. When I have that down I use my Flip to capture it.
> 
> Then I repeat.



yeah, the flip sounds like a great idea. i always wonder how people keep track of all their different ideas and riffs. i have a terrible memory, but great muscle memory. maybe i'll invest in a flip sometime soon.

im also interested in what sorts of things to concentrate on regarding death/thrash kind of stuff. i don't know much about traditional "core" guitar knowledge and technique- i've pretty much learned by ear/tab my whole life. scales confuse me too, especially because like i said earlier- bad memory.


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## tacotiklah (Feb 20, 2010)

I think my personal playing's greatest strength is in writing thrashy riffs so I may be able to help you here.....


-Get a cheap way to record yourself playing. Often times there are riffs that sound kinda meh at first, but if you record yourself and go back and listen to it, it's actually a great riff. The same is true vice-versa. 

- For a more melodic/thrash sound I like to write in B or C standard tuning and use E natural minor as it has a kinda sad quality to it. (to be clear, what I mean is that I play the e minor scale the same way in the new tuning as I would in standard. It would probably make the scale actually B or C minor)

- Pedal notes are king!!! There are some riffs you can just basically play the scale as long as you put a few low palm-muted notes. 

- Rhythm is another big factor. It's not always what notes you play, but how you play them. Making a very infectious groove does more (imo) for writing a good riff. Of course you want a good melody too. Otherwise you're just writing rap music. 

- Try writing a few generic songs that nobody'll listen to (like verse-chorus-verse-chorus-solo-chorus-outro) to build up your songwriting chops.

- Pen and paper are your friend. Writing down that riff helps to keep yourself organized and helps you figure out what order your riffs should go in.

- Don't be afraid to plagiarize your own melody. Obviously you don't want your song to sound redundant but humans tend to love familiar things. Make use of that by taking a couple elements of your own material and morph them some more. It's a great way to tie certain parts of your songs together.

- Don't try to force songs out of yourself. I find that when I try too hard, I write nothing but crap. I'll often take a couple days' break from writing (or even playing guitar) and when I come back to it, the ideas just naturally flow. Having that added energy does wonders for your focus.

Hope this helps.....


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## Uncle Remus (Feb 20, 2010)

goherpsNderp said:


> yeah, the flip sounds like a great idea. i always wonder how people keep track of all their different ideas and riffs. i have a terrible memory, but great muscle memory. maybe i'll invest in a flip sometime soon.
> 
> im also interested in what sorts of things to concentrate on regarding death/thrash kind of stuff. i don't know much about traditional "core" guitar knowledge and technique- i've pretty much learned by ear/tab my whole life. scales confuse me too, especially because like i said earlier- bad memory.


 
What is a flip?


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## chevy2169 (Mar 5, 2010)

You really don't HAVE to know music theory to write a decent melodic death metal song. Many bands have no experience with music theory but they have a connection among themselves.
If you're really interested in learning about music theory it can really help your song writing. I highly suggest you go to a book store and pick up a decent book about it. Such as The Complete idiot's Guide to Music Theory. Very good book.
It can get boring, it's music theory, it happens. But stick woth it, study, and learn and you will start seeing improvments in your writing and playing because you'll understand why you're playing, what you're playing, and why it fits together.
you also really need to practice your scales and know the notes on your fret board from the open low E to the highest fret on the high e. This is VERY important. Get yourself a good scale book and study/ practice and you'll find playing becomes more interesting, and is much easier. Hope that helps.

Also whereabouts in Virginia are you? i'd be glad to help you out and always enjoy jamming with other players.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 6, 2010)

I wanted the posts to automerge... can someone delete this post? It won't let me.


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## Spaced Out Ace (Mar 6, 2010)

Learn as much as you can about theory. Then, throw it out the window.



ghstofperdition said:


> I think my personal playing's greatest strength is in writing thrashy riffs so I may be able to help you here.....
> -Get a cheap way to record yourself playing. Often times there are riffs that sound kinda meh at first, but if you record yourself and go back and listen to it, it's actually a great riff. The same is true vice-versa.


 
Or at the very least, you can decide what was meh about the riff and improve your sense of melody. Also, record yourself playing with a metronome so you can go back and see where you were off and whatnot. Oh, and use different tempos. Nothing more boring than playing in the same tempo the entire time.



> - For a more melodic/thrash sound I like to write in B or C standard tuning and use E natural minor as it has a kinda sad quality to it. (to be clear, what I mean is that I *play the e minor scale the same way in the new tuning as I would in standard*. It would probably make the scale actually B or C minor)


 Eh. I don't agree with the advice of tunings. I would say find the tuning that you enjoy most, and write in those. Who cares if you attempted to push yourself by writing in an unknown tuning if it sounds like shit. Write in the tunings you're most comfortable with and then discover the scales/modes, etc. that fit your playing, sound, and tuning best. Work on your strong suits, and improve from there. *I do this too, but I also suggest putting in the effort to decide whether you want to play the scale the same as you would in E, or if you want to adjust it for the new tuning.*



> - Pedal notes are king!!! There are some riffs you can just basically play the scale as long as you put a few low palm-muted notes.


 Do NOT include every note in the scale if you do this. It'll sound better. If you must, add a note that is outside of the scale, it'll also make it sound better. Then again, I'm kinda Marty Friedman in that regard. Also, a pedal tone doesn't dictate the root note, at least for me. The key/root is determined by a few things, but basically, it's the melody between the palm mutes that matters. Whatever one you use the most, that's probably the root. Another thing, chord tones are your friend, particularly when ending a riff or a solo. A solo can live or die by note choice. If you decide to do some soulful notes after the shreddy stuff, it's best to stick to the chord tones, but if you do use one that isn't a chord tone, it can still work if it sounds good; just experiment. BTW, chord tones are root/3rd/5th/7th.



> - Rhythm is another big factor. It's not always what notes you play, but how you play them. Making a very infectious groove does more (imo) for writing a good riff. Of course you want a good melody too. Otherwise you're just writing rap music.


 It's also what notes you _don't_ play! In a scale run, play every note in that scale. Then start again, and select one note that isn't important, leave it out of the scale run, and notice how much more interesting it is, at least to me anyways. You can do the opposite by adding an outside note as long as it works. Try to stick to scale notes on the down beats, and [generally] starting/ending with a scale note. Here's a tip... if you begin a solo on the "and" of a beat, the solo will sound a lot more "greasy", if that makes sense. To compare, starting on the count of a beat will sound more 'well mannered' for lack of a better description.



> - Try writing a few generic songs that nobody'll listen to (like verse-chorus-verse-chorus-solo-chorus-outro) to build up your songwriting chops.


 After you write a song, look at the chords you play in the riffs. If they don't work, experiment and make the riff work. That'll make you a better songwriter as well as helping note choice and all that.



> - Pen and paper are your friend. Writing down that riff helps to keep yourself organized and helps you figure out what order your riffs should go in.


 Eh, pen and paper are alright, but I find it more of a pain in the ass than anything. I prefer GP5 myself. In short, it allows you to do everything from slowing the tempo down for learning to writing the drum and bass, or whatever else you decide to add.



> - Don't be afraid to plagiarize your own melody. Obviously you don't want your song to sound redundant but humans tend to love familiar things. Make use of that by taking a couple elements of your own material and morph them some more. It's a great way to tie certain parts of your songs together.


 Here's a secret. Play the melody, backwards. Might work, might not. But if you don't at least try it, you'll never know.



> - Don't try to force songs out of yourself. I find that when I try too hard, I write nothing but crap. I'll often take a couple days' break from writing (or even playing guitar) and when I come back to it, the ideas just naturally flow. Having that added energy does wonders for your focus. Hope this helps.....


Write a ballad, a clean part, an arppegiated part, whatever you feel is your strong suit that day. That said, I've been known to write an entire song in 2 days. May seem like a long time to you, but I'm doing everything from writing the drums, bass, and guitars, a solo, any fills I might add, as well as making sure the composition of the song is interesting and flows like a song should. Hell, once song I did had a keyboard at the end just to do some Psycho-esque horror chords as an ending. Not sure why it worked _at all_, but it didn't sound complete without it.


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## tacotiklah (Aug 5, 2010)

Thanks Ace! He has some good points there OP.

Also, harmonies are your friend in the melodeath genre. It takes some skill to orchestrate guitar parts, and do so in a way that is pleasing to the ear. Knowing some theory will really help you there. Again, minor keys (while not the end all, be all) are a great way to get started in learning to harmonize.


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## iRaiseTheDead (Aug 5, 2010)

Uncle Remus said:


> What is a flip?


 

Tis a good camcorder. It can record up to 1-2 hours of footage, and it shoots 720p
They range from price from $120-$200


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