# Found Out You Can Get Around Paying Sales Tax on Reverb



## PuriPuriPrisoner (Feb 1, 2020)

I don't know if this is a known thing but it turns out you don't pay sales taxes on used stuff if you buy through a person's reverbsites page. You can make a reverbsites page by just making a few clicks in the reverb apps page. I'm 99% sure it doesn't affect the amount the seller loses in a transaction through fees. So next time you plan on buying a $2.5K guitar the normal route (like I just did yesterday :'|), try to convince the seller to quickly set up a reverbsites page so you can save on that 8% tax (or however much it is where you're at).


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Feb 1, 2020)

It just changes how taxes _should_ be collected. It doesn't disappear, the onus is just on the seller to follow through with proper protocol based on their location.

The "should" being the operative word. It's definitely a loophole for now, especially at small volume, but anyone who does a bunch of selling could open themselves up to tax liabilities if caught.


----------



## xwmucradiox (Feb 5, 2020)

I cant imagine asking a seller to set up a web site so I could avoid paying sales tax.


----------



## PuriPuriPrisoner (Feb 5, 2020)

xwmucradiox said:


> I cant imagine asking a seller to set up a web site so I could avoid paying sales tax.


Hey, you do you papi. I’ll do what I have to to save a couple hundred bucks. Besides, it’s only like two clicks on Reverb to set up a reverbsites page.


----------



## ArtDecade (Feb 5, 2020)

If you can't afford tax, you need to get out of the game. I would have told you to pound sand, _papi_.


----------



## PuriPuriPrisoner (Feb 5, 2020)

ArtDecade said:


> If you can't afford tax, you need to get out of the game. I would have told you to pound sand, _papi_.


I just don't see why I should pay sales tax on used shit. Taxes were already paid when the item was first purchased, so I don't like having to pay taxes again, especially if you're buying from a private seller and not a retail store.


----------



## ArtDecade (Feb 5, 2020)

Because you aren't being charged a sales tax - it is a tax on the transaction. Regardless of how you feel about taxes, you have lost the plot if you think someone is going to dodge the IRS for you. Ever been audited? Sure as hell not going through that for a random hero on the internet.


----------



## PuriPuriPrisoner (Feb 5, 2020)

ArtDecade said:


> Because you aren't being charged a sales tax - it is a tax on the transaction. Regardless of how you feel about taxes, you have lost the plot if you think someone is going to dodge the IRS for you. Ever been audited? Sure as hell not going through that for a random hero on the internet.


Ok. My bad. I'm just a retard and have no idea how taxes work. Please ignore me.


----------



## gunch (Feb 5, 2020)




----------



## park0496 (Feb 5, 2020)

PuriPuriPrisoner said:


> Ok. My bad. I'm just a retard and have no idea how taxes work. Please ignore me.



we will


----------



## jaxadam (Feb 5, 2020)

All cash no tax no tracks!


----------



## soldierkahn (Feb 6, 2020)

PuriPuriPrisoner said:


> Ok. My bad. I'm just a retard and have no idea how taxes work. Please ignore me.



while i understand where you are coming from, one should never suggest how to illegally avoid paying taxes that should be paid. If you bought a used axe in a store, you would be taxed. If you bought a new axe in a store, you would be taxed. While Im not a fan of taxes, I understand their purpose and respect it.


----------



## Hollowway (Feb 6, 2020)

Wait, this is not a sales tax? It’s a transaction tax? Is that an internet only thing, or are we technically supposed to pay taxes and garages sales and stuff? I thought it was a sales tax, so I don’t know.


----------



## mbardu (Feb 6, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> Wait, this is not a sales tax? It’s a transaction tax? Is that an internet only thing, or are we technically supposed to pay taxes and garages sales and stuff? I thought it was a sales tax, so I don’t know.



Technically I believe it's a sales tax, and you'd be supposed to pay it, even for cash transactions, even on used items. Like, for instance, you have to pay sales tax on a used car in most states.

Same here except knowledge and enforcement is not super high. And internet exploited that at first. But since a recent supreme court decision they're really cracking down hard on all online sales. eBay, Reverb, everywhere...


----------



## USMarine75 (Feb 6, 2020)

gunch said:


>


----------



## diagrammatiks (Feb 6, 2020)

I don't know why everyone is pounding on the op. 
Lot's of sellers are doing this now. 

Right or wrong. 

Because, higher actual transaction prices impact the platform as a whole. Etsy has been doing this for a long time. This loophole didn't get accidentally left in.


----------



## USMarine75 (Feb 6, 2020)

diagrammatiks said:


> I don't know why everyone is pounding on the op.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Feb 6, 2020)

USMarine75 said:


> View attachment 77283



I know what I said.


----------



## PuriPuriPrisoner (Feb 6, 2020)

diagrammatiks said:


> I don't know why everyone is pounding on the op.


Don't worry, I can take a pounding.


----------



## park0496 (Feb 6, 2020)

Off topic.. but I cannot take anyone who still chooses to use the word “retard” seriously. There’s many other words to describe something dumb or stupid.


----------



## USMarine75 (Feb 6, 2020)

park0496 said:


> Off topic.. but I cannot take anyone who still chooses to use the word “retard” seriously. There’s many other words to describe something dumb or stupid.



No excuses.... Even the military knows enough to say "R-tard".


----------



## bzhang9 (Feb 6, 2020)

There's actually a far easier way to get around reverb taxes, I never do it cuz I'm all about IRS


----------



## technomancer (Feb 7, 2020)

It's not the seller dodging anything by doing this, it's the buyer. The buyer will be the one with their ass in a sling if their state finds out about the transaction(s) and comes after them as far as late fees etc etc It is really shocking the number of people that have no understanding how this works... the requirements are reporting/collection requirements on the sellers, being an individual store lowers their total transactions below the threshold that requires they collect and submit the sales tax for the buyer. From a legal standpoint the buyer is still required to pay the tax whether the seller is collecting and submitting it for them or not.


----------



## protest (Feb 7, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> Wait, this is not a sales tax? It’s a transaction tax? Is that an internet only thing, or are we technically supposed to pay taxes and garages sales and stuff? I thought it was a sales tax, so I don’t know.



It's a "Marketplace" tax. Which means that eBay and Reverb are the ones that need to collect and remit the tax. It is based on the sales tax rate of the purchaser's state, so in effect it is sales tax. It does not apply to a store though, so if you buy something from a mom and pop type store over the phone and out of state, you should still be able to technically "save" on tax. If you really want to avoid sales tax though, just move to Delaware 

Also garage sales have their own specific rules regarding sales and income tax, as well as stolen goods.


----------



## technomancer (Feb 7, 2020)

protest said:


> It's a "Marketplace" tax. Which means that eBay and Reverb are the ones that need to collect and remit the tax. It is based on the sales tax rate of the purchaser's state, so in effect it is sales tax. It does not apply to a store though, so if you buy something from a mom and pop type store over the phone and out of state, you should still be able to technically "save" on tax. If you really want to avoid sales tax though, just move to Delaware
> 
> Also garage sales have their own specific rules regarding sales and income tax, as well as stolen goods.



IIRC it's based on transaction thresholds for the state in question, so big single location sellers like Sweetwater still have to collect and remit. Technically for most states the mom and pop should be sending you a tax receipt that you are expected to submit and pay the tax when you file your state taxes (it varies from state to state, but that's how it works in PA and several others)


----------



## protest (Feb 7, 2020)

technomancer said:


> IIRC it's based on transaction thresholds for the state in question, so big single location sellers like Sweetwater still have to collect and remit. Technically for most states the mom and pop should be sending you a tax receipt that you are expected to submit and pay the tax when you file your state taxes (it varies from state to state, but that's how it works in PA and several others)



Yes, something like Sweetwater that operates out of a single state, but does millions of dollars in sales will have to collect and remit. Sort of like how selling stuff online doesn't need to be included in your income for tax purposes until you hit a transaction or dollar threshold. I think it's 200/$20,000 for Reverb, probably eBay as well. 

The mom and pop should be sending you something, but they don't (in my experience) because it's another way to pitch a sale. When you're looking at a pedal it's not mentioned because who cares about $10 in sales tax. When you're looking at a PRS the "are you from the area" question always gets asked. I live near Philly, so the stores I go to probably see people coming from PA, DE, NJ, NY, MD etc fairly regularly. They always pitch the "pay here and ship it home" and you'll save sales tax...which is part of the reason for the Marketplace tax in the first place. They know they can't compete when you're automatically shaving a few hundred bucks off by buying online.


----------



## spudmunkey (Feb 7, 2020)

technomancer said:


> It's not the seller dodging anything by doing this, it's the buyer. The buyer will be the one with their ass in a sling if their state finds out about the transaction(s) and comes after them as far as late fees etc etc It is really shocking the number of people that have no understanding how this works... the requirements are reporting/collection requirements on the sellers, being an individual store lowers their total transactions below the threshold that requires they collect and submit the sales tax for the buyer. From a legal standpoint the buyer is still required to pay the tax whether the seller is collecting and submitting it for them or not.



I have a client that has offices in several US cities (international as well, but that's different). We charge tax where we're registered to be able to charge it, and then for the states/cities we don't, the client has to report it on their end. If we haven't sent them the documentation they need, they make sure to request it to keep on the up-and-up. While they are a publically-traded company now, they also did it when they were privately owned, and we wer registered in fewer states.


----------



## technomancer (Feb 7, 2020)

protest said:


> Yes, something like Sweetwater that operates out of a single state, but does millions of dollars in sales will have to collect and remit. Sort of like how selling stuff online doesn't need to be included in your income for tax purposes until you hit a transaction or dollar threshold. I think it's 200/$20,000 for Reverb, probably eBay as well.
> 
> The mom and pop should be sending you something, but they don't (in my experience) because it's another way to pitch a sale. When you're looking at a pedal it's not mentioned because who cares about $10 in sales tax. When you're looking at a PRS the "are you from the area" question always gets asked. I live near Philly, so the stores I go to probably see people coming from PA, DE, NJ, NY, MD etc fairly regularly. They always pitch the "pay here and ship it home" and you'll save sales tax...which is part of the reason for the Marketplace tax in the first place. They know they can't compete when you're automatically shaving a few hundred bucks off by buying online.



Yep... my point was the buyer is still liable for the sales tax to their state in most states even when buying from a mom and pop.


----------



## protest (Feb 7, 2020)

technomancer said:


> Yep... my point was the buyer is still liable for the sales tax to their state in most states even when buying from a mom and pop.



Yes, you're always supposed to report out of state purchases that should have been taxed. 

AND I ALWAYS DO.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Feb 7, 2020)

When I bought my Anderson many years ago the option was 50 dollars shipping or pick up in store but I’d have to pay 8 percent tax on 3500. 

so it was shipped. 

boy if that happened today I guess I’d be going to jail.


----------



## technomancer (Feb 7, 2020)

diagrammatiks said:


> When I bought my Anderson many years ago the option was 50 dollars shipping or pick up in store but I’d have to pay 8 percent tax on 3500.
> 
> so it was shipped.
> 
> boy if that happened today I guess I’d be going to jail.



Nah you'd just have fees and penalties pile up until it became worth it for the state to go after you and garnish your wages


----------



## MetalDaze (Feb 7, 2020)

ArtDecade said:


> Because you aren't being charged a sales tax - it is a tax on the transaction. Regardless of how you feel about taxes, you have lost the plot if you think someone is going to dodge the IRS for you. Ever been audited? Sure as hell not going through that for a random hero on the internet.



IRS is federal. They aren’t looking at your state tax liability.


----------



## MetalDaze (Feb 7, 2020)

diagrammatiks said:


> I don't know why everyone is pounding on the op.
> Lot's of sellers are doing this now.



That’s how I found out about it. The seller advised buyers to save some money and use the other method. 

If people think a state tax authority is going to come after you for dodging tax on a handful of private sales, you better never attempt to hold a garage sale  too much paranoia sometimes.


----------



## ghostOG (Feb 7, 2020)

Hope you boys are paying your sales tax whenever you buy something off craigslist or visit a lemonade stand.


----------



## bostjan (Feb 7, 2020)

ghostOG said:


> Hope you boys are paying your sales tax whenever you buy something off craigslist or visit a lemonade stand.


https://fortune.com/2018/06/08/countrytime-lemonade-stand-fee-fine-reimbursement/
https://www.foxbusiness.com/small-b...monade-stands-young-entrepreneurs-summer-jobs
https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/07/27/how-your-childs-lemonade-stand-could-land-you-in-jail/
Capitalism, emairite?


----------



## soldierkahn (Feb 7, 2020)

PuriPuriPrisoner said:


> Don't worry, I can take a pounding.



thats what she said.............. had to lol


----------



## soldierkahn (Feb 7, 2020)

MetalDaze said:


> That’s how I found out about it. The seller advised buyers to save some money and use the other method.
> 
> If people think a state tax authority is going to come after you for dodging tax on a handful of private sales, you better never attempt to hold a garage sale  too much paranoia sometimes.



its more about integrity, which is defined as "doing the right thing legally AND morally, even when noones watching."


----------



## c7spheres (Feb 7, 2020)

bostjan said:


> https://fortune.com/2018/06/08/countrytime-lemonade-stand-fee-fine-reimbursement/
> https://www.foxbusiness.com/small-b...monade-stands-young-entrepreneurs-summer-jobs
> https://www.dailysignal.com/2018/07/27/how-your-childs-lemonade-stand-could-land-you-in-jail/
> Capitalism, emairite?



God I hate this type of busting kids stuff. "They" were busting kids out here in AZ for this and selling home baked cookies and stuff calling it a health code violation or something. Parents were getting threatened with fines and kids were "learning valuable lessons" and that type stuff. They were getting shut down. But then you see stuff the next day on the news about how some kids are "heroes" doing the same exact thing (selling home baked goods from home) and giving the money to whatever charity.
- So if the kids want extra spending money they are violating health code and should be taught a lesson and shut down, but if they give the money to a charity they are heroes. The only difference being who gets the money. I think the lesson the kids should take away here is obvious. Hate their gov't and take advantage of the system at all costs. Corruption will make you prevail. Your country hates you kid. Don't let them tell you different. There's a lesson for them : ) just kidding. It's obviously for the best I don't have kids, but I'm gonna do my best to turn them against these types of people with apparently nothing better to do than fuck with kids.


----------



## spudmunkey (Feb 7, 2020)

"Hey guys, i just found you don't have to pay to order anything on Amazon. When you see an Amazon box on your neighbors' porches, go get it. It's free!"


----------



## aesthyrian (Feb 7, 2020)

That's a random and unrelated comment if I've ever seen one.


----------



## ArtDecade (Feb 10, 2020)

MetalDaze said:


> IRS is federal. They aren’t looking at your state tax liability.



Every state alerts the IRS whenever there is a discrepancy in local filings. The feds make that part of an ear mark for local grants and funding.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Feb 10, 2020)

aesthyrian said:


> That's a random and unrelated comment if I've ever seen one.



He's implying that the thread title is an extremely dumb way to oust that you are partaking in illegal activity. 

I know a guy who does this kind of stuff, and he will actively advertise that there are no taxes charged on his reverb listing then list directions for how to find the reverbsite that you can buy from omitting taxes.

Can't afford the taxes? Tough it out, better than getting audited and paying more later because someone online made me think it's a way to dodge taxes on a transaction that ties the purchase to my bank/name directly


----------



## narad (Feb 10, 2020)

If as a buyer you want to avoid taxes you should follow my strong hints in the Reverb ad that the guitar is listed on other sites, go find that other forum, and then PM there, like any normal person.


----------



## erdiablo666 (Feb 10, 2020)

narad said:


> If as a buyer you want to avoid taxes you should follow my strong hints in the Reverb ad that the guitar is listed on other sites, go find that other forum, and then PM there, like any normal person.



^This. I do this constantly.


----------



## Watty (Feb 13, 2020)

Just don’t talk about it your messages, because they definitely read them.


----------



## Adieu (Feb 13, 2020)

park0496 said:


> Off topic.. but I cannot take anyone who still chooses to use the word “retard” seriously. There’s many other words to describe something dumb or stupid.



....mentally handicapped American?


----------



## ghostOG (Feb 14, 2020)

c7spheres said:


> God I hate this type of busting kids stuff. "They" were busting kids out here in AZ for this and selling home baked cookies and stuff calling it a health code violation or something. Parents were getting threatened with fines and kids were "learning valuable lessons" and that type stuff. They were getting shut down. But then you see stuff the next day on the news about how some kids are "heroes" doing the same exact thing (selling home baked goods from home) and giving the money to whatever charity.
> - So if the kids want extra spending money they are violating health code and should be taught a lesson and shut down, but if they give the money to a charity they are heroes. The only difference being who gets the money. I think the lesson the kids should take away here is obvious. Hate their gov't and take advantage of the system at all costs. Corruption will make you prevail. Your country hates you kid. Don't let them tell you different. There's a lesson for them : ) just kidding. It's obviously for the best I don't have kids, but I'm gonna do my best to turn them against these types of people with apparently nothing better to do than fuck with kids.


Yea that kind of thing happened around here a couple years ago. Some landscaping Bubba got butt hurt cuz a teenager was mowing yards and taking his business, so he tried to get the city to crack down on the kid for not having a business license. They made the right decision and told the old man to get real.


----------



## c7spheres (Feb 14, 2020)

ghostOG said:


> Yea that kind of thing happened around here a couple years ago. Some landscaping Bubba got butt hurt cuz a teenager was mowing yards and taking his business, so he tried to get the city to crack down on the kid for not having a business license. They made the right decision and told the old man to get real.


 I can see that guys gripe, honestly, with that type of business, depending on the kid or the amount of kids doing it. If that kid's making hundreds or even a thousand plus a month doing lawns then that can be a serious concern and detriment to the guys business, especially when you multiply it by all the other kids doing it. That's some serious cash. A bunch of kids doing bake sales and lemonade stands probably isn't enough to impact local businesses i'd assume. The city probably didn't do anything because it probably wasn't a big deal what the kid was doing.


----------



## park0496 (Feb 14, 2020)

Adieu said:


> ....mentally handicapped American?



If you must ask... intellectually disabled American


----------



## Guitarexpert224 (Nov 7, 2020)

ArtDecade said:


> If you can't afford tax, you need to get out of the game. I would have told you to pound sand, _papi_.


That's a pretty dumb statement.

And big 


ArtDecade said:


> Because you aren't being charged a sales tax - it is a tax on the transaction. Regardless of how you feel about taxes, you have lost the plot if you think someone is going to dodge the IRS for you. Ever been audited? Sure as hell not going through that for a random hero on the internet.[/
> And big corporations dodge millions of dollar by not playing ANY sales tax but us musicians who have a hard time paying for things get dinged. So what your writing above it a bunch of B.S.





ArtDecade said:


> Because you aren't being charged a sales tax - it is a tax on the transaction. Regardless of how you feel about taxes, you have lost the plot if you think someone is going to dodge the IRS for you. Ever been audited? Sure as hell not going through that for a random hero on the internet.


Big corporations don't pay millions in sales tax cause of loopholes in the tax laws that benefit them but us little guys get zinged with sales tax that makes it harder to afford a used private sale. So what you wrote is a bunch of B.S. To pay shipping and tax on Reverb when you buy something is a loss of money. Why, an amp costs $1000 on Reverb, $75 shipping and $80 tax. So now the amp costs $1160. If you go to sell that amp and put it up for $1160 when others are for $1000 it wont sell. Then on top of your selling price you have to pay Reverb & Paypal almost 8% in fees. That' an addtional $80. So if everyone else is selling that item for $1000, the you have to sell if close to that price you just lost $240. Shipping, tax, and reverb fees. It's ridiculous.


----------



## technomancer (Nov 8, 2020)

Guitarexpert224 said:


> Big corporations don't pay millions in sales tax cause of loopholes in the tax laws that benefit them but us little guys get zinged with sales tax that makes it harder to afford a used private sale. So what you wrote is a bunch of B.S. To pay shipping and tax on Reverb when you buy something is a loss of money. Why, an amp costs $1000 on Reverb, $75 shipping and $80 tax. So now the amp costs $1160. If you go to sell that amp and put it up for $1160 when others are for $1000 it wont sell. Then on top of your selling price you have to pay Reverb & Paypal almost 8% in fees. That' an addtional $80. So if everyone else is selling that item for $1000, the you have to sell if close to that price you just lost $240. Shipping, tax, and reverb fees. It's ridiculous.



Please, list any of these legal loopholes in sales tax. I'd love to know them so I can forward them to my boss so we can stop paying sales tax on all the purchases of computers and displays etc for IT in our company.


----------



## ArtDecade (Nov 8, 2020)

Guitarexpert224 said:


> That's a pretty dumb statement.
> 
> And big
> 
> ...



You created an account just to embarrass yourself. I like your style.


----------



## chipchappy (Nov 8, 2020)

ArtDecade said:


> You created an account just to embarrass yourself. I like your style.



he's an expert, after all...


----------



## Randy (Nov 9, 2020)

Guitarexpert224 said:


> That's a pretty dumb statement.
> 
> And big
> 
> ...



Not so much 'loopholes' but you can avoid tax on products that are meant to be resold or on raw materials for OEM purposes to *some* extent, yeah. But it's a pain in the butt and typically not something that cuts profit margins enough that it's worth battling with on small transactions. 

Trying to profit off stuff you get on ebay or reverb or CL is a tough, if not impossible business to be in. Yeah you absolutely do get hen pecked on fees, but that's on top of how much cash you have tied up in those purchases, ontop of how volatile the market is. These marketplaces are not especially designed for profiting off flipping.


----------



## Hollowway (Nov 9, 2020)

What’s the difference between buying on reverb sites vs buying on a Facebook ad? I would think that they either both, or neither, should charge sales tax, right?


----------



## technomancer (Nov 9, 2020)

Hollowway said:


> What’s the difference between buying on reverb sites vs buying on a Facebook ad? I would think that they either both, or neither, should charge sales tax, right?



I believe the distinguishing feature is Facebook isn't charging for the marketplace so the burden to collect and pay sales tax is on the individuals and not the marketplace. I'm not a lawyer and haven't done a lot of research, but I believe that is how it is interpreted. Same with Craigslist for example.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Nov 9, 2020)

also craiglist and facebook market place are technically just literally like open market places. 
Reverb is technically a store front.


----------



## xwmucradiox (Nov 9, 2020)

Guitarexpert224 said:


> To pay shipping and tax on Reverb when you buy something is a loss of money. Why, an amp costs $1000 on Reverb, $75 shipping and $80 tax. So now the amp costs $1160. If you go to sell that amp and put it up for $1160 when others are for $1000 it wont sell. Then on top of your selling price you have to pay Reverb & Paypal almost 8% in fees. That' an addtional $80. So if everyone else is selling that item for $1000, the you have to sell if close to that price you just lost $240. Shipping, tax, and reverb fees. It's ridiculous.



Its almost like you're paying a small fee for access to a large group of potential customers looking for the exact kind of thing you want to sell. Like a service or something. Wild, right?


----------



## devastone (Nov 9, 2020)

So, a question for you guys, do you pay the Paypal fees or use friends and family to avoid paying them when buying stuff on a forum? If so, isn't that the same argument, you should pay for a service if you use it? Just curious.


----------



## MaxOfMetal (Nov 9, 2020)

devastone said:


> So, a question for you guys, do you pay the Paypal fees or use friends and family to avoid paying them when buying stuff on a forum? If so, isn't that the same argument, you should pay for a service if you use it? Just curious.



That's not a magic button to avoid fees, it literally waves your protections, so if you use it, and you get screwed, you're on your own.

The fee is paying for the service of insuring your transaction.


----------



## mikernaut (Nov 10, 2020)

So when did Reverb start sitting on your $ before you ship out the item/put in a tracking number? Not a fan of that. Found out they are sitting on my $4k for my LPC I just sold . They finally emailed me telling me I have to provide a tracking # before it's transfered into my bank account. What a not great policy that they didn't explain initially. hmmm been like a week .


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Nov 10, 2020)

mikernaut said:


> So when did Reverb start sitting on your $ before you ship out the item/put in a tracking number? Not a fan of that. Found out they are sitting on my $4k for my LPC I just sold . They finally emailed me telling me I have to provide a tracking # before it's transfered into my bank account. What a not great policy that they didn't explain initially. hmmm been like a week .


They've done that for years. It's a good safeguard to prevent people from getting the money and not shipping (which still happens on ebay occasionally). 
Also it mentions it in their FAQs..


----------



## Jake (Nov 10, 2020)

mikernaut said:


> So when did Reverb start sitting on your $ before you ship out the item/put in a tracking number? Not a fan of that. Found out they are sitting on my $4k for my LPC I just sold . They finally emailed me telling me I have to provide a tracking # before it's transfered into my bank account. What a not great policy that they didn't explain initially. hmmm been like a week .


Been like that for at least a year. I don't see the problem with it though? As long as you can prove you sent the item you get paid. This stops people from scamming people up front.


----------



## Andromalia (Nov 11, 2020)

I suppose scammers can still send bricks so I don't really see the point either.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Nov 11, 2020)

Andromalia said:


> I suppose scammers can still send bricks so I don't really see the point either.


I mean they could, but reverb is really good about siding with and protecting buyers.


----------



## devastone (Nov 11, 2020)

MaxOfMetal said:


> That's not a magic button to avoid fees, it literally waves your protections, so if you use it, and you get screwed, you're on your own.
> 
> The fee is paying for the service of insuring your transaction.



I understand that, I never use F&F, I'll pay the fees if necessary. Lots of people seem to want payment via F&F, but as a buyer, I'll add the 3%, usually cheap protection. When I sell I assume that is part of the transaction. If nothing else, I see it as a paying for a service I'm using, the protection is a bonus.


----------



## bzhang9 (Nov 11, 2020)

Sad how few sellers have a sites, and how few buyers use sites when its set up...

Still pp is the way to go, 3% fees, get 2% back using credit card, cheap as hell shipping east cost with case $15-20

yeah theres stories of scammers, but I've had non in over 100 deals and given the difference in fees and taxes, getting scammed 1 in 10 deals is still worth it over reverb


----------



## Christopher Williams (Nov 26, 2020)

mbardu said:


> Technically I believe it's a sales tax, and you'd be supposed to pay it, even for cash transactions, even on used items. Like, for instance, you have to pay sales tax on a used car in most states.
> 
> Same here except knowledge and enforcement is not super high. And internet exploited that at first. But since a recent supreme court decision they're really cracking down hard on all online sales. eBay, Reverb, everywhere...



This only applies if you’re selling more than $100k to a particular state.

As a guy who only sells in order to churn my own collection, I am under no obligation whatsoever to pay sales tax to any state, nor is any shop (no matter how large) if they don’t sell at least $100k of stuff to that particular state.


----------



## Christopher Williams (Nov 26, 2020)

devastone said:


> So, a question for you guys, do you pay the Paypal fees or use friends and family to avoid paying them when buying stuff on a forum? If so, isn't that the same argument, you should pay for a service if you use it? Just curious.


I use the Fee Calculator, and pay the fees to the penny.

The seller gets every penny he wants, and I get buyer protection.


----------



## Matt08642 (Nov 27, 2020)

America is wild...


----------



## Plague Sun (Dec 22, 2020)

Yea I live in a very small US state. What is sales tax. Never heard of it


----------



## bostjan (Dec 22, 2020)

Christopher Williams said:


> This only applies if you’re selling more than $100k to a particular state.
> 
> As a guy who only sells in order to churn my own collection, I am under no obligation whatsoever to pay sales tax to any state, nor is any shop (no matter how large) if they don’t sell at least $100k of stuff to that particular state.



You are correct-ish. This was the written opinion of the Supreme Court of the US; however, if your state feels otherwise, the case law will not stop the state police from coming and confiscating your stuff or even cracking your head open. So... IDK if I'd personally recommend challenging the state laws, but if you want to take up the mantle of that crusade yourself, I'll stand here and quietly route for you.


----------



## wannabguitarist (Dec 23, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> Sad how few sellers have a sites, and how few buyers use sites when its set up...
> 
> Still pp is the way to go, 3% fees, get 2% back using credit card, cheap as hell shipping east cost with case $15-20
> 
> yeah theres stories of scammers, but I've had non in over 100 deals and given the difference in fees and taxes, getting scammed 1 in 10 deals is still worth it over reverb



How are you shipping a guitar in a case for $20?


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Dec 23, 2020)

wannabguitarist said:


> How are you shipping a guitar in a case for $20?


he's not, he's full of shit. Even pre covid it was costing me at least 40$ to ship a guitar within CONUS.


----------



## wannabguitarist (Dec 23, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> he's not, he's full of shit. Even pre covid it was costing me at least 40$ to ship a guitar within CONUS.



Okay I was starting to fell like I got ripped off. I just shipped a guitar from SoCal to the east coast and it cost $100 through USPS. Hardcase in a box with about a 1/2in of packing material all around. Or about twice as much as the last time I shipped a guitar


----------



## davem294 (Dec 24, 2020)

Found out about the tax free loophole the other day, when a seller mentioned it. Really wish more sellers knew about it. Dont know why some of you are getting bhurt at the OP. Its ridiculous to pay taxes for used gear when buying from private individuals.


----------



## groverj3 (Dec 24, 2020)

It's a slippery slope. One day you're avoiding paying sales tax on Reverb, the next you're opening shell corporations in the Cayman Islands and accepting only cryptocurrency.


----------



## groverj3 (Dec 24, 2020)

Matt08642 said:


> America is wild...


Been living here all 31 years of my life, in 4 different states, three radically different regions, and I think this exact quote every day.


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 24, 2020)

KnightBrolaire said:


> he's not, he's full of shit. Even pre covid it was costing me at least 40$ to ship a guitar within CONUS.



Lol pants in a bunch? East coast using amazon boxes is 20ish via paypal UPS. I shipped one today 17 in a case MD to VA. Wanna take a bet if Im making this up? Or admit youre wrong?


----------



## mlp187 (Dec 24, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> Lol pants in a bunch? East coast using amazon boxes is 20ish via paypal UPS. I shipped one today 17 in a case MD to VA. Wanna take a bet if Im making this up? Or admit youre wrong?


JFC that is stellar. I need to look into using PayPal again.


----------



## Mathemagician (Dec 24, 2020)

Yeah I used the Reverb shipping label option once and it was $75 to ship a guitar. I’ve just expected that though since I’m shipping from America’s dong.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Dec 24, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> East coast using amazon boxes is 20ish via paypal UPS.


How exactly are you doing this? Taping a bunch of smaller boxes together?


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 24, 2020)

soul_lip_mike said:


> How exactly are you doing this? Taping a bunch of smaller boxes together?



going to amazon, typing "guitar box" then ordering that would make more sense no?


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Dec 25, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> going to amazon, typing "guitar box" then ordering that would make more sense no?



I thought he meant he was taking boxes he got from amazon and repurposing them for shipping....lol


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 28, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> Lol pants in a bunch? East coast using amazon boxes is 20ish via paypal UPS. I shipped one today 17 in a case MD to VA. Wanna take a bet if Im making this up? Or admit youre wrong?



Then why are you listing your shipping cost on Reverb as $90/95 on everything you sell?

You might be shipping 2 hours from MD into VA for under $20 uninsured, but you're either bluffing and paying more. Or you're charging more for shipping then taking the risk by going with the cheapest/uninsured option.

Shipping Insurance | UPS, USPS, Fedex Insurance Costs [2020] (shipbob.com)

It's pretty universal that you pay $10 per 1k of value insured, even if you were shipping MD to VA which is super short transit. There's no way any freight handler would charge you $7 for the handling and shipping of a package that weighs 18 - 22lbs, and takes as much space as a general 45x15x8 Package.

Like @KnightBrolaire, I call BS. It's definitely been my experience that the freight costs alone from East Coast to East Coast (20 - 40), and East Coast to West Coast (40 - 70). Then you tack on whatever your insurance cost is on top, *Pre-COVID*.


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 28, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Then why are you listing your shipping cost on Reverb as $90/95 on everything you sell?
> 
> You might be shipping 2 hours from MD into VA for under $20 uninsured, but you're either bluffing and paying more. Or you're charging more for shipping then taking the risk by going with the cheapest/uninsured option.
> 
> ...



To account for selling fees, is that a problem? I buy insurance when I feel its necessary. Why would I bluff about shipping costs are you being serious right now stalking my accounts and getting all worked up over the internet? I'm just trying to help giving people a way to ship cheaper through paypal jesus christ chill out already.


----------



## diagrammatiks (Dec 28, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> To account for selling fees, is that a problem? I buy insurance when I feel its necessary. Why would I bluff about shipping costs are you being serious right now stalking my accounts and getting all worked up over the internet? I'm just trying to help giving people a way to ship cheaper through paypal jesus christ chill out already.



show receipt boo. 

you really make things harder then it needs to be sometimes.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 28, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> To account for selling fees, is that a problem? I buy insurance when I feel its necessary. Why would I bluff about shipping costs are you being serious right now stalking my accounts and getting all worked up over the internet? I'm just trying to help giving people a way to ship cheaper through paypal jesus christ chill out already.



You usually do that by just adding to the cost of your instrument, not the shipping.

You also shouldn't ever ship uninsured, what a bad practice. Just because you opt out of the bare essentials when shipping expensive merchandise doesn't mean you've somehow figured out how to beat the system and pay dirt cheap shipping on stuff. 

It took 3 clicks to find literally any of your FS posts and see your Reverb Shop listed in all of the ads. Calling it stalking is just deflecting the point when you willingly listed all the information I mentioned in my last post. It's not like I dug deep and found out your personal info, so I don't understand why you're freaking out, you sell on this forum and you literally link your Reverb in those ads.

I shipped with a Business Account and > 400 Annual Shipments in 2015, and Fedex offered me a flat 20% rate at the peak of the business. Saving $3 - 8 definitely adds up, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that you can ship *guitars* for less than 50% of what everyone pays across the board.


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 28, 2020)

Just seems like I'm trying to help out other members and a few toxic individuals are offended that people might be paying less for shipping and cant seem to grasp there may be better ways and prices are different based on carrier and location. If all you have is fedex and you live in the middle of nowhere so prices are higher thats just too bad.


----------



## narad (Dec 28, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> You also shouldn't ever ship uninsured, what a bad practice. Just because you opt out of the bare essentials when shipping expensive merchandise doesn't mean you've somehow figured out how to beat the system and pay dirt cheap shipping on stuff.



This is a bit tangential but there's also an argument to make for not ever insuring, if you have the money to cover any immediate loss. Certainly in my case in my life I'm probably down $5k in insurance, and I've never filed a claim.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 29, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> Just seems like I'm trying to help out other members and a few toxic individuals are offended that people might be paying less for shipping and cant seem to grasp there may be better ways and prices are different based on carrier and location. If all you have is fedex and you live in the middle of nowhere so prices are higher thats just too bad.



No one else is offended here dude, trust me. We just don't believe you, you didn't mention before that you sometimes avoid insurance, and probably other aspects of the shipping service that some deem essential to get the cost lowered. But you're not divulging any meaningful information like you say you are to help others save money on shipping, I'm all ears but you're probably not getting discounts on the level of a business, and it is historically the most expensive time to ship anything in recent years (Holidays/COVID). 

There's a lot of experience shipping guitars on this forum between the collective group, it's just hard to believe you're paying the prices you say you are. I guess I'd be a little more amenable if you were giving any meaningful tips other than, "Join Paypal's Shipping Program", and "Order your guitar boxes on Amazon if you need them".

It's not new information, if you're not insuring an instrument that's definitely one way to reduce cost, but otherwise inadvisable. 



narad said:


> This is a bit tangential but there's also an argument to make for not ever insuring, if you have the money to cover any immediate loss. Certainly in my case in my life I'm probably down $5k in insurance, and I've never filed a claim.



Maybe in a profitable business sense, you'd avoid it. I've seen businesses insure all packages above 1k for exactly 1k to save on shipping costs and insurance charges, but overall your ratio would have to be very favorable for you to justify not paying for the insurance. 

Something something, 10 guitars sold for 3k. Margins of 40% on the sale, average cost of $60 in shipping all insured at 1k.

$600 in Shipping Costs
$11400 made on the 10 if all are sold and received without issues.

If any are lost or destroyed in transit, and if they are insured even at 1k you recover your profits/shipping cost and refund the customer. But if you're not insured, if 4/10 shipments are lost or destroyed in transit, you've lost all of your profit and you're in the negative. But you weigh the likelihood of 4/10 shipments turning into the worse case scenario, and can compromise on the insurance but there's still very little reason not to insure.

The used guitar resale thing is definitely not profitable, so I will always opt for it.


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 29, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> No one else is offended here dude, trust me. We just don't believe you, you didn't mention before that you sometimes avoid insurance, and probably other aspects of the shipping service that some deem essential to get the cost lowered. But you're not divulging any meaningful information like you say you are to help others save money on shipping, I'm all ears but you're probably not getting discounts on the level of a business, and it is historically the most expensive time to ship anything in recent years (Holidays/COVID).
> 
> There's a lot of experience shipping guitars on this forum between the collective group, it's just hard to believe you're paying the prices you say you are. I guess I'd be a little more amenable if you were giving any meaningful tips other than, "Join Paypal's Shipping Program", and "Order your guitar boxes on Amazon if you need them".
> 
> ...



"not offended" then looks through my old posts, finds my reverb, looks through my old reverb listings, complains about my shipping rates... ok dude take a bet or leave it alone

your calculations are whack, 4/10 shipments lost? pack a guitar properly and you'll almost never need insurance. Theres a reason al these shipping service offer insurance, they make money, you lose money. Its not rocket science. Ever try to fight a shipping company over damages? I'd rather pay it and save my time and headache.

Like I said earlier if you can't read, use amazon guitar boxes they are snug, buy insurance judiciously eg if theres no case, use paypal labels, save on shipping, if you don't believe it don't use it.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 29, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> "not offended" then looks through my old posts, finds my reverb, looks through my old reverb listings, complains about my shipping rates... ok dude take a bet or leave it alone
> 
> your calculations are whack, 4/10 shipments lost? pack a guitar properly and you'll almost never need insurance. Theres a reason al these shipping service offer insurance, they make money, you lose money. Its not rocket science. Ever try to fight a shipping company over damages? I'd rather pay it and save my time and headache.
> 
> Like I said earlier if you can't read, use amazon guitar boxes they are snug, buy insurance judiciously eg if theres no case, use paypal labels, save on shipping, if you don't believe it don't use it.



Uh, the calculations aren't directed at you, and it's a literal hypothetical. If you're reselling used instruments then it outlines doubly so how dumb it is NOT to insure your instruments. Used instrument resale isn't a reliable way to make money profiting on sales.

What's with the incessance on betting money? Shipping rates are basic calculations, and certain shippers offer minor incentives to discount the cost.

Brother, I read your posts  So your tips are to purchase snug and small cardboard boxes? Then use Paypal to get cheaper rates (minor), then use insurance at your own discretion and play that risk game sometimes?

You do realize that by shipping guitars "snuggly", provides basically zero shock absorption when those freight handlers toss our instruments left and right in their facilities right? Moreover, it doesn't even matter if you buy Insurance at that point, because most of these businesses require 1 - 2 inches of packing material around the subject to even consider your claim.

Dunno why you're mad that I did 30 seconds of research, and you seem to be equating that to stalking somehow. Padding your shipping to make up for seller fees isn't smart and is a pretty glaring difference to you bragging to others that you pay 1/5 of what you charge your customers on shipping. Maybe you shouldn't brag about it then, since you have a massive inconsistency sitting there saying otherwise.


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 29, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Uh, the calculations aren't directed at you, and it's a literal hypothetical. If you're reselling used instruments then it outlines doubly so how dumb it is NOT to insure your instruments. Used instrument resale isn't a reliable way to make money profiting on sales.
> 
> What's with the incessance on betting money? Shipping rates are basic calculations, and certain shippers offer minor incentives to discount the cost.
> 
> ...



Too funny, keep criticizing my methods while I'm the one saving thousands and have perfect feedback after shipping hundreds of guitars. Just let it go, pay more if you want, this thread is about how to save on reverb, no one cares how "righteous" your shipping ways are.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 29, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> Too funny, keep criticizing my methods while I'm the one saving thousands and have perfect feedback after shipping hundreds of guitars. Just let it go, pay more if you want, this thread is about how to save on reverb, no one cares how "righteous" your shipping ways are.



It's fantastic that you've saved tons and I commend you for it, you're better for it.

Someone else asked you to just validate your mentioned costs and you haven't shown anything to support your apparent cost! It's not about righteous shipping methods 

Whatever, good luck man.


----------



## bostjan (Dec 29, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> Lol pants in a bunch? East coast using amazon boxes is 20ish via paypal UPS. I shipped one today 17 in a case MD to VA. Wanna take a bet if Im making this up? Or admit youre wrong?



I mean, simplest way to end this argument you're having with 2-3 other forum members is to make good on your threat to produce the evidence. I have no dog in this fight, but saying stuff like what you said, and then bickering with everyone calling you out on your own posted shipping rates just comes off as you trying to backpedal. Just post the receipt.


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 29, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> It's fantastic that you've saved tons and I commend you for it, you're better for it.
> 
> Someone else asked you to just validate your mentioned costs and you haven't shown anything to support your apparent cost! It's not about righteous shipping methods
> 
> Whatever, good luck man.





bostjan said:


> I mean, simplest way to end this argument you're having with 2-3 other forum members is to make good on your threat to produce the evidence. I have no dog in this fight, but saying stuff like what you said, and then bickering with everyone calling you out on your own posted shipping rates just comes off as you trying to backpedal. Just post the receipt.



MD to NY, 35 lbs, 48x17x8, <$17
add 1k insurance and its still in the $20s

Funny how determined you guys are to be proved wrong, try not to be so eager to call people out next time


----------



## bostjan (Dec 29, 2020)

You get a discount, I assume. I just entered in a Baltimore-NYC shipment with the same package weight and UPS's website quoted me $22 for the cheapest service type. A $5 discount makes sense if you are a frequent customer or something.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Dec 29, 2020)

Damn the cheapest I ever got with full insurance is $65 and that was from Pittsburgh to West Virginia. One shipment in a hard case (massive guitar too) was $120 insured to Florida.


----------



## bostjan (Dec 29, 2020)

Last time I shipped a guitar from VT to FL, it cost over $100, but, when I lived in Detroit, I could usually ship guitars to other major cities for about half of that.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 29, 2020)

bostjan said:


> You get a discount, I assume. I just entered in a Baltimore-NYC shipment with the same package weight and UPS's website quoted me $22 for the cheapest service type. A $5 discount makes sense if you are a frequent customer or something.



That was my point earlier, I can absolutely look up an estimate to a location 3 - 4 hours from it's origin with no options (Insurance, Adult Signature, Signature Confirmation). Then post up that screenshot saying that it costs me 13.95 to ship to a relatively close state/location.

It doesn't prove much of anything


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 29, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> That was my point earlier, I can absolutely look up an estimate to a location 3 - 4 hours from it's origin with no options (Insurance, Adult Signature, Signature Confirmation). Then post up that screenshot saying that it costs me 13.95 to ship to a relatively close state/location.
> 
> It doesn't prove much of anything



Just stop man you are dense as hell, my initial statement was east coast shipping $20 with case through paypal, I showed proof of exactly that, and less, with insurance its still around $20. You dragged it on page after page, stalking my profile and whining incessantly, don't be stubborn, take the L and move on.


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 29, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> Just stop man you are dense as hell, my initial statement was east coast shipping $20 with case through paypal, I showed proof of exactly that, and less, with insurance its still around $20. You dragged it on page after page, stalking my profile and whining incessantly, don't be stubborn, take the L and move on.



Looking at a FS post on *this *forum where you literally list your Reverb is "stalking" apparently 

You provided a shipping estimate from a location 3 - 4 hours from Maryland and blanket statement saying "East Coast is about $20". Like I said before, you haven't unearthed some hidden secret shipping tactics, you're skimping on essentials then getting estimates of shipping to locations that are within a few hour's commute from their origin.

Not sure who you're handing L's out to, but you can just hold on to them


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 29, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> Looking at a FS post on *this *forum where you literally list your Reverb is "stalking" apparently
> 
> You provided a shipping estimate from a location 3 - 4 hours from Maryland and blanket statement saying "East Coast is about $20". Like I said before, you haven't unearthed some hidden secret shipping tactics, you're skimping on essentials then getting estimates of shipping to locations that are within a few hour's commute from their origin.
> 
> Not sure who you're handing L's out to, but you can just hold on to them



so dense its like talking to a brick, to maine is $22 thats as far as it goes east coast. You asked for proof, I showed it, move on and save the embarrassment.

its no hidden secret but I'm not paying 50-100 like some people, maybe some members can benefit from my tips, so why get so offended? is it really essential if I've shipped hundreds of guitars without a hitch or are you just throwing money at fedex? food for thought


----------



## Jonathan20022 (Dec 29, 2020)

bzhang9 said:


> so dense its like talking to a brick, to maine is $22 thats as far as it goes east coast. You asked for proof, I showed it, move on and save the embarrassment.
> 
> its no hidden secret but I'm not paying 50-100 like some people, maybe some members can benefit from my tips, so why get so offended? is it really essential if I've shipped hundreds of guitars without a hitch or are you just throwing money at fedex? food for thought



No one's offended dude, you can say that as much as you want but it doesn't make it true 

I thought it was weird that you seem to be paying less than half of what you charge your customers for shipping. It was your decision to come into a thread and brag about spending less on shipping than others. So don't be surprised or upset when you get called out with a BS excuse like trying to recoup seller fees. 

But hey you do you, hopefully you let your customers know that they're getting an uninsured package when you charge them $90/95 for the purposes of shipping. I'd certainly want to know that information if I was a buyer.


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 29, 2020)

Jonathan20022 said:


> No one's offended dude, you can say that as much as you want but it doesn't make it true
> 
> I thought it was weird that you seem to be paying less than half of what you charge your customers for shipping. It was your decision to come into a thread and brag about spending less on shipping than others. So don't be surprised or upset when you get called out with a BS excuse like trying to recoup seller fees.
> 
> But hey you do you, hopefully you let your customers know that they're getting an uninsured package when you charge them $90/95 for the purposes of shipping. I'd certainly want to know that information if I was a buyer.



just pathetic man, changing the subject to bash my reverb listings. Again, check my 100+ feedback, I have the happiest customers around, when theres an issue I pay up no questions asked. I came here to give tax and shipping tips in a try to save money thread, you came in to whine and contribute nothing. Who are you to judge how I sell and ship? I could care less what you do.


----------



## tian (Dec 29, 2020)

The numbers look legit but aren't really applicable to most scenarios. That's about the cost I'd expect to ship a box of that size within one zone on a corp/business account. Even the quoted Maine price just sounds like shipping within one zone but with the common 7$ and some change gas surcharge for rural addresses. Go another zone over and the price will easily double, go four zones across the country and it'll be between 50-60$ and make it 9" wide instead of the listed 7" and you're easily at 70$ before insurance and box.

For those unaware, for UPS you pay shipping costs by the zones it ships through and almost always the dimensions before weight. Very rarely does weight impact the cost because UPS takes the dimensions of your package and then charges you for a set weight and then adds a surcharge if you manage to go over it eg a 14x14x14 has an assumed weight of 20 something pounds although most probably ship around the 5-10lb range. You can see on your receipt when you ship something the weight you're paying for regardless of whatever the box really weighs.

Point is, the inches matter more than the pounds in shipping and his quote has some pretty snug numbers for shipping a guitar. Probably not enough space to clear a UPS insurance claim but if you're not paying for insurance and willing to go out of pocket on damages that's a moot point so I guess save the cash. Four inches of packing material on all sides of the shipped item is standard or you can expect a denied claim. Yes, that drives up the cost quick but that's what they expect. With less buffer, you're box will get where it needs to nine times out of ten but packed to UPS insurance spec, it'll get there even if UPS drives a forklift over it... which happens... a decent amount.

Also, you can create a label for whatever size box you like and send it on it's way but when it's passing through a UPS sorting facility, the dimensions will be scanned and if it's larger than listed on the label, it still ships but your account will be billed for the adjustment. You can see that disclaimer in the posted screenshot.

If you ever want a ballpark on shipping costs for something, measure the item and then add 4-5 inches on every side. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to help people with shipping and they get mad when the quote they generated from measuring an item exactly (or even the box, they expand when packed!) isn't the real cost they can ship at...

And not to belabor the point but rando box =/= shipping box. Shipping boxes have specific ratings and can be decently expensive but that's because they're made to deal with the blender that is courier service and handlers. A non shipping box will probably be fine within one zone but as you start crossing zones and hitting multiple sorting hubs, shitty boxes get absolutely wrecked. Your stuff will be kicked, dropped, thrown etc, because the burden is on you to pack it expecting that. 

TBH, there aren't really any hidden shipping cost savers out there unless you're willing to cut corners and run the risk of a ruined box or you've got access to a corp UPS/FedEx account that pushes large volume.


----------



## bzhang9 (Dec 29, 2020)

tian said:


> The numbers look legit but aren't really applicable to most scenarios. That's about the cost I'd expect to ship a box of that size within one zone on a corp/business account. Even the quoted Maine price just sounds like shipping within one zone but with the common 7$ and some change gas surcharge for rural addresses. Go another zone over and the price will easily double, go four zones across the country and it'll be between 50-60$ and make it 9" wide instead of the listed 7" and you're easily at 70$ before insurance and box.
> 
> For those unaware, for UPS you pay shipping costs by the zones it ships through and almost always the dimensions before weight. Very rarely does weight impact the cost because UPS takes the dimensions of your package and then charges you for a set weight and then adds a surcharge if you manage to go over it eg a 14x14x14 has an assumed weight of 20 something pounds although most probably ship around the 5-10lb range. You can see on your receipt when you ship something the weight you're paying for regardless of whatever the box really weighs.
> 
> ...



While all true, this has very little application in real life, unless you rarely ship and are shipping something very expensive
by those standards, 4 inch on each side would result in a 55x25x15 box which is just massive, bigger than any standard guitar box, cost a ridiculous amount, require tons of packing which isnt cheap either, and it is TOUGH to pack something with so much space well
my sizes are bigger than the standard amazon guitar box which are cheap and well made, allows for a layer of packing on all sides, results in $20 same zone or max of $40ish across country, allows for perfect weight for guitar without overcharges
all these years 100+ guitars in and 100+ out, Ive only seen a handful of minor case damage, never the guitar, which would only be a $100 fix (UPS has free insurance to 100)
with a box that large you are overpaying for weight, and with insurance mostly wasted if the most common damage is just to the case
this is assuming insurance even goes through, which could also end up hours and hours wasted and still get rejected on the claim
for most people packing to company standards and buying insurance is a huge waste of time and money, but everyone can make their choice there's no right or wrong


----------



## tian (Dec 30, 2020)

Agreed! I was sort of responding to a few things at once because I've seen a lot of people pack to their personal standards and then drop a ton of insurance on a box not knowing that UPS will absolutely slam dunk a rejection on their insurance claim. Pack to UPS spec unless, like you said, you want to waste hours on the phone bickering with them. If you do pack to spec though, a claim should sail through pretty smoothly once an inspection agent checks out the package and sees the mountain of bubble wrap that comes with 4" clearance on every side lol. 

And to clarify, if I were to ship a sub-1k$ guitar, I'd be roughly around your dimensions. Top and bottom Styrofoam caps, some bubble wrap to keep it snug and it's good to go but it's also uninsurable. And I also don't have access anymore to prices like you're quoting. That's about half the retail cost that the average person is going to get quoted when they walk into a franchise shop or the customer service desk at a hub.

And UPS insurance is absolutely murder but I also don't think it's a waste in some scenarios. It's been a bit but last I checked it's $2.50 per extra $100 of insurance. $0.50 of that is for the insurance and the rest is straight profit to the retail outlet. A lot of items it's useless because if it's packed well enough to qualify for a claim, it's not going to get damaged in the first place. But shit happens and for some finicky things, the expense is worth the peace of mind. And FWIW, anything insured above $1k ($28 and up in additional insurance cost) becomes a high value item and in two years of daily shipping, I never saw UPS lose or break one of those.


----------



## USMarine75 (Dec 30, 2020)

UPS hates him. 

Learn this one weird trick to save thousands on shipping.


----------



## soul_lip_mike (Jan 16, 2021)

PuriPuriPrisoner said:


> I don't know if this is a known thing but it turns out you don't pay sales taxes on used stuff if you buy through a person's reverbsites page. You can make a reverbsites page by just making a few clicks in the reverb apps page. I'm 99% sure it doesn't affect the amount the seller loses in a transaction through fees. So next time you plan on buying a $2.5K guitar the normal route (like I just did yesterday :'|), try to convince the seller to quickly set up a reverbsites page so you can save on that 8% tax (or however much it is where you're at).



How do you make a reverbsites page?


----------



## diagrammatiks (Jan 16, 2021)

soul_lip_mike said:


> How do you make a reverbsites page?



well you can't anymore


----------



## narad (Jan 16, 2021)

diagrammatiks said:


> well you can't anymore



Over on the Reverb.Org forums: 
"Found Out You Can Get Around People Getting Around Paying Sales Tax On Reverb"


----------

