# Why the 5150 III 50w Heads are the Best Amps Ever Made



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

Yeah, I said it. Fight meh!

Okay maybe they are, maybe they aren’t but here are some reasons they just might be the best amps you can buy.

1. Tone. Obviously the most important thing about an amp is its tone and the 5153s have it in spades. Truly excellent tones on all three channels. Green provides not just a usable clean tone but a very good one that can also do edge of breakup with higher output pickups. A lot of rock and metal players don’t even use a clean but it’s there if they want it. The 6L6’s blue channel is nearly legendary at this point and is arguably worth the price of admission on its own. It’s able to deliver a beautifully thick crunch that both cleans up with the guitar’s volume knob and, at higher gain levels, can provide enough aggression for modern metal riffing and liquid leads. The Stealth and EL34 versions provide different voicings on the blue channel giving even more versatility across the lineup. The red channel can get into the heaviest territory one might want and provides all the brutality of its legendary grandfather the 5150, but without the very distinctive midrange that many people complain about (although many people also love that cocked-wah midrange!). The 50w heads have excellent tones across all the channels and versions.

2. Ease of use. Humans are woefully lacking in patience. We don’t just want things to be excellent—we want them to be easy. Getting good tone is no different. For some reason many people feel like they need to start with an amp’s knobs at noon and the amp should only need minor tweaks from there. The accuracy of that is certainly debatable, but the 5150 50w heads do fit that mold. They sound damn good with knobs at noon and minor tweaks will probably serve most players. There are no tricks, no secrets. Great tones right out of the box with “standard” settings. Even the footswitch is great. It’s not insanely large but is able to select all three channels and the loop through a single instrument cable. And just in case you want it, the heads are MIDI controllable too. 

3. Size. No one wants to be carrying a huge 100w+ head around! These are relatively small and light. 

4. Volume. The 5153 50w heads can get plenty loud but are also well known for how useful their volume sweeps are, as they can easily be kept to bedroom/apartment levels and still sound excellent.

5. Price. With prices currently from $1300 to $1500 even after damn near everything, these included, took significant price increases over the last year these amps are an exceptional value.

6. Reliability. Generally speaking, over the years these have proven to be quite reliable even if not quite bulletproof. I definitely wouldn’t be scared to take one on the road. 

7. Aesthetics. The amps look great. There really isn’t much to complain about in this department. Beyond the general aesthetics which are great and even offer a couple color choices in the 6L6, even the size contributes to this category. The heads are small enough to not look pretentious at home but big enough to look great on a stage.

Obviously it’s all subjective. People may not even like these amps (everyone has a right to be wrong  ). Regardless, these are stunningly good and I’m hard pressed to find another amp that is as much “The Total Package.”

(comments have been disabled)


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 31, 2021)

yeah but they don't say 100 watts so they suck


----------



## runbirdman (Dec 31, 2021)

Another thing that doesn't get talked about with the EVH stuff is how well they do with different speakers. I've heard tones I loved out of V30s, Greenbacks, G12EVH, and some of the Eminence/WGS variations as well. I've had a lot of heads that were picky with cabs/speakers but I was never able to get a bad sound out of the EVH heads with a little tweaking. I think it owes to just how easy they are to EQ. 

Any time someone asks for a recommendation for a new amp I always ask if they've tried one of the 5153 variants. Other amps may do something different but I don't know if I've ever tried an amp I would classify as "better."

I do think we're overdue for MIDI being added to the 100w models. Having to use a Voodoo Control Switcher and a custom cable for live switching with my Helix was a pain in the ass.


----------



## CanserDYI (Dec 31, 2021)

Damn this is a quality thread. We need more like this one. 5150 III <3


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 31, 2021)

runbirdman said:


> Another thing that doesn't get talked about with the EVH stuff is how well they do with different speakers. I've heard tones I loved out of V30s, Greenbacks, G12EVH, and some of the Eminence/WGS variations as well. I've had a lot of heads that were picky with cabs/speakers but I was never able to get a bad sound out of the EVH heads with a little tweaking. I think it owes to just how easy they are to EQ.


That's one of the great things about the 5150s in general, be it Peavey or EVH. They love almost any speaker or cabinet.


----------



## USMarine75 (Dec 31, 2021)

Definitely reliable. IIRC Eddie tested that by plugging his guitar in, turning the knobs up to 10, then walking away and leaving it on for a month


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> yeah but they don't say 100 watts so they suck



3!


----------



## profwoot (Dec 31, 2021)

I'd be interested to hear your take on this vs the Invective. The latter is quite persnickety with the boost and post-gain so presumably it would lose on point 2, and is a bit more expensive and presumably heavier, but do you also prefer the tones you get out of the 5153s?


----------



## Hollowway (Dec 31, 2021)

So are you saying that the III is better than the IIIS? If so, or if not, why? I’ll take my answer off air, thank you.


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Dec 31, 2021)

It's never occurred to me that huge tube heads look pretentious.

It very likely never will. You can pry my big iron off my cold, dead chassis.


----------



## IwantTacos (Dec 31, 2021)

I think for the price the 5153 is the best amp ever made.


----------



## laxu (Dec 31, 2021)

If I were to buy one the first thing I would do is replace that front grille with a tolexed piece of wood. Never liked grilles.


----------



## DeathByButterslax (Dec 31, 2021)

For the price maybe, everything else nah


----------



## BenjaminW (Dec 31, 2021)

Wasn't sure if I wanted to post this here or in the Iconic thread, but I always love coming back to this video on the creation of the 5150 III.


----------



## budda (Dec 31, 2021)

Jba5150


----------



## Shask (Dec 31, 2021)

I have said many times that I dont think the 5150 III 50W is the best sounding amp, but it is probably one of the best amps you can buy right now.


----------



## CanserDYI (Dec 31, 2021)

My most recent pickup of a 5150 III LBX has been one of my favorite 5150 iterations I've ever owned, and is an absolute little sleeper for like 400 bucks. Does not seem like a little iron amp in my opinion. 

Every 5150III i've tried has blown my socks off.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

profwoot said:


> I'd be interested to hear your take on this vs the Invective. The latter is quite persnickety with the boost and post-gain so presumably it would lose on point 2, and is a bit more expensive and presumably heavier, but do you also prefer the tones you get out of the 5153s?



The Invective is a fantastic amp but it takes a little know-how to get what many people want. I’d say I prefer the III (both 6L6 and Stealth) blue channel to the Invective crunch channel. I also prefer the III green to the Invective clean (although both are great imo—the Invective’s is a bit more warm and compressed and I can’t really dial it out). The red channel is a wash with both being awesome.

And yeah the 120 is heavy and big like most 100s tend to be (Super Kraken was a better size but pretty heavy as well iirc).


Hollowway said:


> So are you saying that the III is better than the IIIS? If so, or if not, why? I’ll take my answer off air, thank you.



Thanks for your question, caller.

I’m assuming you mean the 6L6 vs the Stealth? It’s suuuper hard to choose one over the other (so I didn’t—I kept both). I like that the 6L6 has a blue channel that has its own voice as opposed to the Stealth where the blue channel sounds basically the same as the red channel but has less gain. I fire up the 6L6 and it’s “damn that’s glorious.” Then I fire up the Stealth and think, “that’s slightly different but no less glorious.”

@wheresthefbomb I do still love me some big iron. I actually agree; 100w heads aren’t really pretentious. Just a nod towards the recent trend toward mini-lunchbox heads. Okay actually I just wanted an to say “pretentious” because it’s a pretentious word.

@BenjaminW I like watching that video too.


----------



## sleewell (Dec 31, 2021)

Agree, amazing amps. 

They should make one with a green and two blue channels


----------



## wheresthefbomb (Dec 31, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> @wheresthefbomb I do still love me some big iron. I actually agree; 100w heads aren’t really pretentious. Just a nod towards the recent trend toward mini-lunchbox heads. Okay actually I just wanted an to say “pretentious” because it’s a pretentious word.



That's so pretentious. 

Legitimately, there is nothing less badass than a stupid giant toob head that is wider than the compact 412 it's sitting on. I will, without hesitation, use a shittier cabinet that looks right than a good cabinet that makes me want to kick shit over when I look at it.


----------



## BurningRome (Dec 31, 2021)

I probably agree that for the money they're one of the better High Gain amps however it's more like the Honda Accord of Metal amps. It checks all the boxes. 

I traded my Fryette Pittbull UL for the EVH 50 and a couple other amps + cash, just to get some quick selling gear moving. Anyway, I did try to keep the EVH but at the time I also had some other amps like the Rivera K-Tre and I remember wishing the 50 had more low end like what I was getting out of the K-Tre. So for me the 50W is good, but I'd be much more curious about the 100W in regards to the lowend.


----------



## CanserDYI (Dec 31, 2021)

I was going to compare my 5150 to an F150, then that got me along the lines of a F-5150 where its a ford truck but the grille is the grille of a block letter and now I want one.


----------



## Steinmetzify (Dec 31, 2021)

BurningRome said:


> I probably agree that for the money they're one of the better High Gain amps however it's more like the Honda Accord of Metal amps. It checks all the boxes.



This right here for me. Fine amps and get the job done but as it stands I’m over those tones. REALLY can’t beat them for what they cost tho. Out of my two main amps the cheaper was well over $1k+ the cost of these amps and my #1 was north of $2.5k over.

Apples to oranges, I know. If for some reason I needed to sell my top 2 I’d grab a 5153 any day.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin (Dec 31, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah, I said it. Fight meh!
> 
> Okay maybe they are, maybe they aren’t but here are some reasons they just might be the best amps you can buy.
> 
> ...


I’m going to have to agree here. Every single one of my 6 electrics sound fantastic through it, I don’t even have to tweak any settings unless I’m being really picky. I have a variety of styles of guitars, my Hollowbody PRS sounds great as does my most metal EMG 81 equipped guitar.


----------



## Hollowway (Dec 31, 2021)

Yeah, see I can’t decide between the stealth, the 6L6 III and the Iconic. StaymetalRay likes the Stealth hands down over the III because he says it’s more articulate. Idk how you guys feel about that statement, though. And for the price, if I can’t find a good used III or IIIS I could get a used LBX and new Iconic for roughly the same price. But I think there’s likely too much crossover. (I mean, I have a Fryette UL and 50CL, so I don’t really need these anyway, so I guess that’s not an issue, lol. But I do like me high gain amps that sound identical to my wife )


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Dec 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, see I can’t decide between the stealth, the 6L6 III and the Iconic. StaymetalRay likes the Stealth hands down over the III because he says it’s more articulate. Idk how you guys feel about that statement, though. And for the price, if I can’t find a good used III or IIIS I could get a used LBX and new Iconic for roughly the same price. But I think there’s likely too much crossover. (I mean, I have a Fryette UL and 50CL, so I don’t really need these anyway, so I guess that’s not an issue, lol. But I do like me high gain amps that sound identical to my wife )



If you want an amp with a fast, immediate, tight as fuck attack, get the Iconic or S for sure. The S also has some basic MIDI functionality (basic because it's only CC channel switching) and 2 separate EQ rather than 1 shared EQ. But if you can live with a basic amp, go with the Iconic. 

...Or wait until the Iconics hit the used market.


----------



## CanserDYI (Dec 31, 2021)

Can we just make this the 5150 thread? For things that don't need its own thread? I think it's perfect for it and Deadpool's ode to the 5153 50 watt, praise be it's name, is the perfect entry to read before speaking your praise and giving tithe to the 5150.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

wheresthefbomb said:


> That's so pretentious.



Believe me, the irony was not lost on me 




Hollowway said:


> Yeah, see I can’t decide between the stealth, the 6L6 III and the Iconic. StaymetalRay likes the Stealth hands down over the III because he says it’s more articulate. Idk how you guys feel about that statement, though. And for the price, if I can’t find a good used III or IIIS I could get a used LBX and new Iconic for roughly the same price. But I think there’s likely too much crossover. (I mean, I have a Fryette UL and 50CL, so I don’t really need these anyway, so I guess that’s not an issue, lol. But I do like me high gain amps that sound identical to my wife )



I like that dude’s channel. I do think the Stealth seems to have a touch more string clarity. Not a ton, but a little. 

A friend of mine was over yesterday (he’s a muuuuch better player than I am). He played through the 6L6 and loved it. Then through the Stealth and loved it maybe a little more. It’s all subjective of course. I honestly don’t think you can do wrong with either.

I haven’t played through either the LBX or the Iconic. If the Iconic is as good as the III (which I’m not yet convinced of) it’d be a no-brainer at that price (except I still don’t love the look).


----------



## MatrixClaw (Dec 31, 2021)

Yeah, it's aight. But only with white tolex.


----------



## cmpxchg (Dec 31, 2021)

I'd argue against best amp ever made, but "best default high-gain amp right now," I think so. If I were going to play somewhere and only brought a guitar and there was a 5153 50W (of any type) for me to plug into, that's perfectly fine. But yes, it is like a Honda Accord in that way.


----------



## GreatGreen (Dec 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, see I can’t decide between the stealth, the 6L6 III and the Iconic. StaymetalRay likes the Stealth hands down over the III because he says it’s more articulate. Idk how you guys feel about that statement, though. And for the price, if I can’t find a good used III or IIIS I could get a used LBX and new Iconic for roughly the same price. But I think there’s likely too much crossover. (I mean, I have a Fryette UL and 50CL, so I don’t really need these anyway, so I guess that’s not an issue, lol. But I do like me high gain amps that sound identical to my wife )



I own a 5153 50w 6L6 head (v2 with concentric pots) and compared it against two separate Stealth 50w heads in my studio over about a week or so. I tested them both through EVH 4x12 cabs and Suhr Reactive Load -> IR's.

One of the Stealths sounded thinner in the low end than the 6L6, and the other sounded fatter. The 6L6 was right in the middle, lol.

Literally the only difference other than that was the 6L6's Blue channel had just a bit more shimmery highs with very, very low Gain settings. Other than that, the biggest difference was the color. They are that similar, at least the ones I tested were to my ears.

I saw Stay Metal Ray's comparison video and in those videos the 50w Stealth sounded considerably better than his v1 6L6 head. Wider bandwidth, more clarity. My 6L6 v2 sounds closer to the Stealth, like I said, almost identical. From that, I can only conclude that either there were other component improvements when the 6L6 50w v2 was released, or it's just an amp-by-amp component variance / manufacturing tolerance thing.



MatrixClaw said:


> Yeah, it's aight. But only with white tolex.



I bought a black 50w 6L6 head and have regretted it since I opened the box hah. I still like the look of the amp but the white is just such a hot looking color with the rest of the amp's aesthetics.

I even called EVH and asked them if I could buy a white headshell from them. They said no. Bastards.


----------



## runbirdman (Dec 31, 2021)

FWIW I owned both the 5150III (6L6) and the 100S at the same time and vastly enjoyed the 6L6 more. The Stealth just loses some of the compression that I got out of the 6L6.

As far as 5153 vs. Invective, I think the 5153 wins in everything but bells and whistles. In my short time of owning the Invective, the only special feature I used was the noise gate. I preferred other boosts way more. I truly enjoyed every channel more on the 5153 but the Invective is still a great amp. I replaced my 6L6 with the Invective and then immediately moved on from the Invective after realizing the 5150 was just more my thing.


----------



## Grindspine (Dec 31, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Yeah, I said it. Fight meh!
> 
> Okay maybe they are, maybe they aren’t but here are some reasons they just might be the best amps you can buy.
> ---------------------------
> ...



I mean, they could be the best amps if Mesa/Boogie Mark series and Rectifiers didn't exist! 

I really do like the 5150 II / 6505+ sound. So many great albums have been recorded with those. Hearing a 5150 based guitar rig and a Rectifier guitar rig on the same stage with a two guitar group is killer though.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

GreatGreen said:


> I own a 5153 50w 6L6 head (v2 with concentric pots) and compared it against two separate Stealth 50w heads in my studio over about a week or so. I tested them both through EVH 4x12 cabs and Suhr Reactive Load -> IR's.
> 
> One of the Stealths sounded thinner in the low end than the 6L6, and the other sounded fatter. The 6L6 was right in the middle, lol.
> 
> ...



Contact BFG Cabs on FB about the headshell.


----------



## gunch (Dec 31, 2021)

They’re alright and I have heard them sound good but I can’t stand how Vogg and Joe Haley sound with them


----------



## Hollowway (Dec 31, 2021)

Do the EL34 variants have the concentric pots, or was their a version 1 of them that didn’t? Sounds like I want a 50W III with concentric pots, a IIIS, or whatever the EL34 version of those is.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Do the EL34 variants have the concentric pots, or was their a version 1 of them that didn’t? Sounds like I want a 50W III with concentric pots, a IIIS, or whatever the EL34 version of those is.



EL34 versions all have the concentric pots. Only the 6L6 existed without them.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

On the EL34 head:
I literally just sold mine. The guy was more an 80s rock style player. Very cool guy and he could _rip_. We had it pretty loud and it reminded me what’s awesome about that EL34 blue channel. It sounded _great_ in that context.


----------



## CanserDYI (Dec 31, 2021)

i have zero idea why, but I always associate the EL34 5150's with the caffeine free Coke cans/bottles. Which I dont drink a lot of pop, but I always saw my grandma with those and knew they had all the balls cut out of them, and thats legit how I associate the EL34 5150, for some god awful reason, and I've never even played one lmao.


----------



## AussieTerry (Dec 31, 2021)

I wanna get the grill on my white one changed to the frankenstein colour scheme so bad, arghhh and i need to get concentric pots modded into cause its a V1.


----------



## Hollowway (Dec 31, 2021)

Now I just need to decide which to get - iconic or III 50W or IIIS 50W. Based on what you guys have seen, which would be better for a tech death brutal tone, but articulate enough for 8 strings (aka able to get djenty enough to avoid the muddiness)?


----------



## Mwoit (Dec 31, 2021)

hell yeahhh


----------



## CanserDYI (Dec 31, 2021)

Mwoit said:


> View attachment 101574
> 
> 
> hell yeahhh


All you need now is the Jason Becker numbers guitar and you're ready to rock.


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin (Dec 31, 2021)

Mwoit said:


> View attachment 101574
> 
> 
> hell yeahhh


Dope AF.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Now I just need to decide which to get - iconic or III 50W or IIIS 50W.



It’s a pick ‘em probably. I doubt you can go wrong with the Iconic. I’m sure either of the 5153s would work fine. So it’s more about budget, aesthetics, channel switching options, and internal satisfaction.

If you had unlimited budget and each of them cost the exact same amount (say $1300) which would you want?


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

CanserDYI said:


> I was going to compare my 5150 to an F150, then that got me along the lines of a F-5150 where its a ford truck but the grille is the grille of a block letter and now I want one.



This needs photoshopped


----------



## Hollowway (Dec 31, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> It’s a pick ‘em probably. I doubt you can go wrong with the Iconic. I’m sure either of the 5153s would work fine. So it’s more about budget, aesthetics, channel switching options, and internal satisfaction.
> 
> If you had unlimited budget and each of them cost the exact same amount (say $1300) which would you want?


Hell if I know.  I’ve never had one before, and don’t need it for live or recording or any of that. I just want one. My Fryette covers the dry toned but these sound thicker and more saturated, but not muddy like a recto, and not too rounded like a powerball.


----------



## CanserDYI (Dec 31, 2021)

Its not photoshopped I promise.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

Hollowway said:


> Hell if I know.  I’ve never had one before, and don’t need it for live or recording or any of that. I just want one. My Fryette covers the dry toned but these sound thicker and more saturated, but not muddy like a recto, and not too rounded like a powerball.



Get the Stealth if you want the blue channel to sound like the red channel.

Get the 6L6 if you want the blue and red to be their own voices (and the 6L6 blue is fucking amazeballs anyway).

Get the Iconic if you need to save the cash.

That’s my take without having tried the Iconic (I hear lots of talk about whether it sounds as good as the 53’s; but not much talk about it sounding better than those…which makes sense because _nothing_ sounds better  ).


----------



## KailM (Dec 31, 2021)

Yeah, I mostly agree. 90% agree, we’ll say. I paid $600 for mine (original 6L6 version). I play it way more often than my 6505 because the green channel is excellent and I do play clean — a lot.

The red channel sounds amazing unboosted and only needs an EQ in the loop (EVERY amp needs an EQ in the loop unless it’s a Mesa Mark). It sounds great at low volume on every channel. Hell, it sounds amazing loud too. 50 watts is plenty to flatten the audience through a 412.

Having said all that…when I crank my 6505, my EVH does feel a little inadequate.


----------



## Vyn (Dec 31, 2021)

They're cheap, reliable, every feature you could want and there's plenty around. Probably the best head to use live at the moment for sure (fuck, every backline will have at least one to two available).

The only reason I prefer the Stealth over the standard is because the biasing is on the rear as opposed to having to disassemble the whole thing. Other than that, pick your flavour really.


----------



## ATRguitar91 (Dec 31, 2021)

I only messed with one of these once about 7 or 8 years ago, but it was pretty amazing.

Hopefully Line 6 is adding a 5153 to the latest firmware so I can at least pretend to have one since there aren't any preamp pedal clones of them as far as I know.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Dec 31, 2021)

ATRguitar91 said:


> I only messed with one of these once about 7 or 8 years ago, but it was pretty amazing.
> 
> Hopefully Line 6 is adding a 5153 to the latest firmware so I can at least pretend to have one since there aren't any preamp pedal clones of them as far as I know.


Isn’t the MXR….

There’s always the Fractal model(s).


----------



## ATRguitar91 (Dec 31, 2021)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Isn’t the MXR….
> 
> There’s always the Fractal model(s).


I'm a bit of a notorious cheapskate among my family and friends so anything new Fractal is out of my price range unless I get a big raise, but I'd say one day I'll end up with a used Fractal unit. Depending on what ends up in the Helix models when they stop updating them at least..

I think the MXR is a Peavey 5150, but I didn't feel it worked well as a preamp when I tried it. More of a distortion pedal.


----------



## cardinal (Dec 31, 2021)

5153 is like cheating. Readily available and reasonably priced. They don't care what guitar is plugged in or what speaker cab is connected. They just pump out awesome sounds without even trying.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE (Dec 31, 2021)

Is anyone using one with a 1x12?


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 1, 2022)

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> Is anyone using one with a 1x12?



No, but I could. I have a pair of evh 1x12s I’m wanting to sell but they’re here for now. Have a specific question?


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 1, 2022)

Four 5150-related threads on the first page already...

Jeez, just maker a damn megathread already!


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 1, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Four 5150-related threads on the first page already...
> 
> Jeez, just maker a damn megathread already!


When Covid stops with the Covid variants, we’ll stop with the 5150 thread variants. Until then you’re surrounded by both.


----------



## USMarine75 (Jan 1, 2022)

BurningRome said:


> I probably agree that for the money they're one of the better High Gain amps however it's more like the Honda Accord of Metal amps. It checks all the boxes.
> 
> I traded my Fryette Pittbull UL for the EVH 50 and a couple other amps + cash, just to get some quick selling gear moving. Anyway, I did try to keep the EVH but at the time I also had some other amps like the Rivera K-Tre and I remember wishing the 50 had more low end like what I was getting out of the K-Tre. So for me the 50W is good, but I'd be much more curious about the 100W in regards to the lowend.



Between my KSR Ares (which cops a decent Herbert/UL tone) and my Peavey/EVH amps I think I’m all set for a wide range of modern metal tones.


----------



## The Thing Upstairs (Jan 1, 2022)

I've owned 3 of the them! (2 x 6l6 - sold) and 1 x el34 (kept).

Great amps, cheap, versatile, modern and easy to use without being burdened with unnecessary things like load boxes/gates and whatnot. Just the essentials like a switchable loop and midi.

While it may be nice for a minority to have extra features, most players these days already have a load box or gate so why add it to the amp and make it more expensive than it needs to be.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 1, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Four 5150-related threads on the first page already...
> 
> Jeez, just maker a damn megathread already!



Only four??

/goes looking for 5150 threads to bump


----------



## Ribboz (Jan 1, 2022)

I had no idea you liked 5150 amps. It's such an obscure subject on this forum.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 1, 2022)

Ribboz said:


> I had no idea you liked 5150 amps. It's such an obscure subject on this forum.



Well then this should be educational for you. Make sure to take notes. There will be a quiz.


----------



## drb (Jan 1, 2022)

I've had a 50W Stealth for a good few months now and it's _too_ good. I have GAS for other amps but I absolutely cannot justify it because I can get everything out of this.

The versatility mentioned about using different guitars or speakers is so true, too. I don't have a decent cab so, if I'm not using IRs, I run it through an old AVT100 combo speaker which is some dodgy Celestion "Hot 100" which gets terrible reviews but it still sounds incredible.

I'm pretty much only keeping my PRS MT15 for sentimental and aesthetic reasons. They're different enough to warrant keeping both to play but I can't see myself using it often. I might try blending both in a mix and see if they complement one another or something in the future.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 1, 2022)

drb said:


> I've had a 50W Stealth for a good few months now and it's _too_ good. I have GAS for other amps but I absolutely cannot justify it because I can get everything out of this.
> 
> The versatility mentioned about using different guitars or speakers is so true, too. I don't have a decent cab so, if I'm not using IRs, I run it through an old AVT100 combo speaker which is some dodgy Celestion "Hot 100" which gets terrible reviews but it still sounds incredible.
> 
> I'm pretty much only keeping my PRS MT15 for sentimental and aesthetic reasons. They're different enough to warrant keeping both to play but I can't see myself using it often. I might try blending both in a mix and see if they complement one another or something in the future.


Run them in stereo into two separated real cabs, it will be your life from then on


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 1, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> Run them in stereo into two separated real cabs, it will be your life from then on


I absolutely love running stereo rigs at home. Only thing mildly annoying is trying to figure out how I want to run delay and reverb in their loops. Ideally I could keep their paths totally separated but that might mean using two delay and two reverb pedals and I just don’t wanna do it that way. Most stereo pedals I have/like don’t keep the paths separate.

Another option would be delay on one side, reverb on the other. Hmm


----------



## Meeotch (Jan 1, 2022)

Over the years, I've read the 100w EL34S is the king of the 5150III lineage. Can anyone chime in who owns one, or has A/Bed with the other versions? Is the blue channel on the 100w just like the 50w?

I wish the 100w versions had midi, but there are workarounds so not a deal breaker. Plus I love the idea of presence AND resonance per channel!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 1, 2022)

Meeotch said:


> Over the years, I've read the 100w EL34S is the king of the 5150III lineage. Can anyone chime in who owns one, or has A/Bed with the other versions? Is the blue channel on the 100w just like the 50w?
> 
> I wish the 100w versions had midi, but there are workarounds so not a deal breaker. Plus I love the idea of presence AND resonance per channel!



It's a taste thing. The EL34S has a softer high end and a more present midrange, due to the EL34s. It's not like a "OMG ITS A MARSHALL" night and day thing, but it sounds slightly different.


----------



## Shask (Jan 1, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I absolutely love running stereo rigs at home. Only thing mildly annoying is trying to figure out how I want to run delay and reverb in their loops. Ideally I could keep their paths totally separated but that might mean using two delay and two reverb pedals and I just don’t wanna do it that way. Most stereo pedals I have/like don’t keep the paths separate.
> 
> Another option would be delay on one side, reverb on the other. Hmm


What I have started doing more is taking the effects send into a stereo rack effects unit, take one output back to the return of the amp, and then the other output to the effects return of the other amp. You get that stereo spread, with stereo effects, and less switching issues since you are only using 1 preamp.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE (Jan 1, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> No, but I could. I have a pair of evh 1x12s I’m wanting to sell but they’re here for now. Have a specific question?



Not a good one! I'm just curious whether it could be "enough" for playing at home and recording? At lower volumes can you get "almost everything" out of the head, or do you really need the bigger cab to open it up?


----------



## Andii (Jan 1, 2022)

What's special about the 5150 III 50w version specifically is the compression. In that is a completely valid reason that someone would prefer the 50w version to the 100w other than size weight and cost. The feel, the way it sits in the mix and the smoothness are fantastic.

I use the 50w in a studio environment and I really really like it. 

I was immediately drawn in when I hard the way it handles dynamics with low tunings. 

I had said this in another thread, but more dynamic amps have a nice percussion to them in higher tunings, but get too plucky in low tunings. The 5150III 50w dynamics are perfect for low tunings.


----------



## Ribboz (Jan 1, 2022)

I would like to try a 100 watt stealth. Wonder how it would compare to an SLO.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 1, 2022)

Ribboz said:


> I would like to try a 100 watt stealth. Wonder how it would compare to an SLO.


I do think it’s weird that no one talks about the 5153 100W versions. Usually I see people talk about how much better the 100W heads are due to “big iron” but for these, everyone seems to favor the 50W heads. It’s like the 100W don’t exist.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 1, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I do think it’s weird that no one talks about the 5153 100W versions. Usually I see people talk about how much better the 100W heads are due to “big iron” but for these, everyone seems to favor the 50W heads. It’s like the 100W don’t exist.



It's quite obvious. Who wants to carry those humongous things when you can get 90% of the tone from the 50W heads at a fraction of the price and weight?

They're also less refined. 100W 6L6's blue channel has less gain than the 50W, which in turn led to the release of the Stealth, which in turn has an overgained clean channel. The EL34 was the last one to be released, and it's the most refined of the bunch (and the most similar to the 50W variants).

Of course, let's not forget the full size heads *don't have MIDI*. That alone completely kills them for me.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 1, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> It's quite obvious. Who wants to carry those humongous things when you can get 90% of the tone from the 50W heads at a fraction of the price and weight?
> 
> They're also less refined. 100W 6L6's blue channel has less gain than the 50W, which in turn led to the release of the Stealth, which in turn has an overgained clean channel. The EL34 was the last one to be released, and it's the most refined of the bunch (and the most similar to the 50W variants).
> 
> Of course, let's not forget the full size heads *don't have MIDI*. That alone completely kills them for me.


I don’t think it’s the weight, though. When it comes to other amps (not 5150) you hear people talk a lot about the 100W being better. But not these. And that goes for studio use, especially. People are choosing these over the 100W even if it’s just studio use, and price is no object.
But those other points you made are interesting. I didn’t realize that. The MIDI part especially is surprising.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 1, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I do think it’s weird that no one talks about the 5153 100W versions. Usually I see people talk about how much better the 100W heads are due to “big iron” but for these, everyone seems to favor the 50W heads. It’s like the 100W don’t exist.



You can get the 50w heads for like half the price and get within the same tonal ballpark. People who can get the 100w do seem to get the 100w, but for our needs the 50w is plenty.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 1, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> You can get the 50w heads for like half the price and get within the same tonal ballpark. People who can get the 100w do seem to get the 100w, but for our needs the 50w is plenty.


Yeah, I just mean that people actively choose t he 50W over the 100W, irrespective of price and weight. You don’t see, “I’d love the 100W, but can’t afford it” threads. That’s in stark contrast the the single vs dual rectifiers. We don’t have “single recs are the best amp of all time” threads, and we don’t have people choosing them over dual recs on average on here. So what I’m getting at is that I think the tone of the 50W is either better than the 100W, or so close it doesn’t really matter. And that’s generally not what you hear about other “half gain” heads (with the exception of the deliverance 60). But emperoff brought up some really good points I didn’t know about, so those are probably factors for a lot of people. 

Mind you, I’m saying this out of curiosity, because I don’t own any 5150 variant. It’s just what I see everyone posting about, and what’s available on YouTube.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 1, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I just mean that people actively choose t he 50W over the 100W, irrespective of price and weight. You don’t see, “I’d love the 100W, but can’t afford it” threads. That’s in stark contrast the the single vs dual rectifiers. We don’t have “single recs are the best amp of all time” threads, and we don’t have people choosing them over dual recs on average on here. So what I’m getting at is that I think the tone of the 50W is either better than the 100W, or so close it doesn’t really matter. And that’s generally not what you hear about other “half gain” heads (with the exception of the deliverance 60). But emperoff brought up some really good points I didn’t know about, so those are probably factors for a lot of people.
> 
> Mind you, I’m saying this out of curiosity, because I don’t own any 5150 variant. It’s just what I see everyone posting about, and what’s available on YouTube.



FWIW I actually have had people say the Single Rectos are their favorite amps.  But unlike the 5150 amps, the power section does matter more with the Rectos and other things like JCM800s and Plexi. Those power sections REALLY color the sound of the amps, so it's why people tend to prefer Triples over Duals, or 1987s over 1959s. 

With 5150s, the cleaner power sections don't influence the sound as much, which is why the 50ws sound much closer to the 100ws. 

Plus money still does play a big role.  . With the Single, Dual, and Triple rectos it's ~$100 difference. With the EVHs, it's ~$1000 difference.

And of course the 50w amps do have basic MIDI features as said above.


----------



## Werecow (Jan 1, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I don’t think it’s the weight, though. When it comes to other amps (not 5150) you hear people talk a lot about the 100W being better. But not these. And that goes for studio use, especially. People are choosing these over the 100W even if it’s just studio use, and price is no object.
> But those other points you made are interesting. I didn’t realize that. The MIDI part especially is surprising.



The main thing about this is that the blue channel is actually different in the preamp in all the EVH amps. So it's a lot bigger sound difference than just big iron or amount of tubes. The 50w 6L6 blue channel seems to resonate with a lot of people (it does me). For me personally i find it a bit annoying because sometimes i prefer the red channel on the 100w Stealth. I wish the 100w Stealth had the 50w 6L6 blue channel.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Jan 1, 2022)

Wait, was there two versions of the El34 100W? Stealth and regular?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 1, 2022)

Seabeast2000 said:


> Wait, was there two versions of the El34 100W? Stealth and regular?



Nah, the EL34 has always been called the 5150IIIS EL34.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 1, 2022)

Weird thing about the EL34 variant is that it sounds to me to be way more full of mids. But then, a lot of people say it doesn't sound as modern as the 6L6 variant. Yet, modern metal is usually a mid focused tone. So I guess the EL34s are "boosting" the wrong mids?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 1, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Weird thing about the EL34 variant is that it sounds to me to be way more full of mids. But then, a lot of people say it doesn't sound as modern as the 6L6 variant. Yet, modern metal is usually a mid focused tone. So I guess the EL34s are "boosting" the wrong mids?



People say that less mids = more modern for some reason.  

I mean I have noticed the EL34 has a slightly softer attack. But TBH I don't feel theres a night and day difference between the EL34 and the 6L6.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 1, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> People say that less mids = more modern for some reason.
> 
> I mean I have noticed the EL34 has a slightly softer attack. But TBH I don't feel theres a night and day difference between the EL34 and the 6L6.


Yeah, I'm just judging it based on an EL34 vs 6L6 video I saw on YT. I can't remember if it was Kyle or Fluff or someone else. The EL34 sounded a bit more opena nd focused, but I was listening through my phone, so....  It's definitely splitting hairs, but I mean that's how we rationalize more gear purchases, right?


----------



## sakeido (Jan 2, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Weird thing about the EL34 variant is that it sounds to me to be way more full of mids. But then, a lot of people say it doesn't sound as modern as the 6L6 variant. Yet, modern metal is usually a mid focused tone. So I guess the EL34s are "boosting" the wrong mids?


that's precisely it imo

modern metal mids are a narrow Q, high boost. EL34 is a smaller, much much broader boost

I didn't like my 50 watt EL34 at all fwiw. Much preferred the 6L6. I really, really want to try the 50 watt Stealth... and the Iconic... and the 100 watt EL34... I probably shouldn't open this can of worms, to be honest

edit: holy shit our dealer says the 50 watt Stealth is out of stock until August 2022!? What the fuck


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 2, 2022)

sakeido said:


> that's precisely it imo
> 
> modern metal mids are a narrow Q, high boost. EL34 is a smaller, much much broader boost
> 
> ...



Man Covid + EVH's death really did put a number on EVH and Peavey.


----------



## USMarine75 (Jan 2, 2022)

sakeido said:


> that's precisely it imo
> 
> modern metal mids are a narrow Q, high boost. EL34 is a smaller, much much broader boost
> 
> ...



I waited 12+ mo for mine and I’m still waiting 18+ mo for the matching 212 cab. Waited 18 mo for the Frankie Relic guitar too.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 3, 2022)

I have the following amps in my studio:

100w EL34
100w Stealth
50w 6L6 (concentric pots)

I have recently also had in my studio:

50w Stealth - two of them


I think the best way to describe the difference between the 50w amps and 100w amps is that the 50w amps are slightly more "slinky" sounding and feeling than the 100w amps. One is not necessarily better or worse, I like them both. The 100w amps have just a bit more extended low end, and a slightly fatter midrange. As far as the low end goes, it's not that the 100w amps have a _louder_ low end, it's that the low end of the 100w amps extends farther down the frequency spectrum than the 50 watt amps. As far as the fatter midrange of the 100w amps goes, from what I can tell from playing them it sounds like just a bit more midrange from the guitar is sent to the preamp gain stages. The 50w amps by comparison sound like a very slight mid scoop is applied at the amp's input, before gain. I'm not sure if this is what is technically happening but this is what I hear and feel when I compare them, and also I can more or less approximate the 100w "fattness" in the 50w amps by running a slight mid boost into the 50w amp's input.

The 100w EL34 does have a slightly more naturally emphasized midrange than the 100w Stealth due to the EL34 power section's higher damping factor, but that midrange difference is entirely in the poweramp. The preamps are identical, believe it or not.

I've heard people say the 100w EL34's Blue channel sounds like X while the 100w Stealth's Blue channel sounds different in Y and Z ways... this is not true in my experience, by which I mean I have reamped a single guitar stem with both the Blue and Red channels of both 100w amps and found basically no meaningful differences. Both the 100w EL34 and 100w Stealth's Red and Blue channels have identical amounts of gain, are equally aggressive, and have the same basic filtering going on.

With the 50w amps, the EL34's Blue channel has more of the guitar's low end routed to the preamp gain stages than the 6L6's Blue channel, and this makes the 50w EL34's Blue channel muddier than the 6L6 Blue channel. This difference is not present in the 100w EL34 and 100w Stealth variants.

As far as I can hear, the difference between the 100w EL34 and 100w Stealth variants is entirely in the power sections. Also, because both amps are designed to generate all of their gain in the preamp while the poweramp runs completely clean, any real differences between the two power sections can probably be entirely EQ'd out in post.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 3, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> I have the following amps in my studio:
> 
> 100w EL34
> 100w Stealth
> ...


That’s great info, thank you. 

Are you gonna get the Iconic and compare that to those? I’m ready to smash that subscribe button if you do, lol.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 3, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> That’s great info, thank you.
> 
> Are you gonna get the Iconic and compare that to those? I’m ready to smash that subscribe button if you do, lol.



Lol, no plans to get the Iconic at this point, even though I do think it's a really cool amp. 

I've basically committed to picking up one of the upcoming 6505 1992 Original amps and as nuts as I am, I think that one is enough for now, hah.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 3, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> Lol, no plans to get the Iconic at this point, even though I do think it's a really cool amp.
> 
> I've basically committed to picking up one of the upcoming 6505 1992 Original amps and as nuts as I am, I think that one is enough for now, hah.


What’s your thought process on that? As someone who owns none of these, I’m trying to decide what to get. At this point I’ve narrowed it to 5153S or Iconic, and haven’t given much thought to the 6505II or 1992.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 3, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> What’s your thought process on that? As someone who owns none of these, I’m trying to decide what to get. At this point I’ve narrowed it to 5153S or Iconic, and haven’t given much thought to the 6505II or 1992.



The real main reason, if I'm being totally honest, is because I owned a 5150 years ago and sold it like an idiot, and have been wanting one back ever since. 

For a more practical answer, 5150's respond to my playing and I get along with them really well, they have been an industry standard for the last 30 years and are still go-to amps even today so they have definitely stood the test of time, and in my experience they always, always "just work" perfectly in basically any mix you can throw a high gain guitar into. I don't think any high gain amp records as well as a 5150. Also it's super simple, there's basically nothing to them. The tone controls do a little bit but not too much so you never get stuck tweaking them, they're just very straightforward one-trick-ponies that do their job flawlessly, so in that sense they have proven themselves to be extremely practical tools as well.

So yeah, I'm sure the Iconic is also a special amp and will gain its own dedicated following in time but the 5150 is a tried and true work horse, and I miss the one I had... and the 6505 92 Original will basically be a factory new 5150 with an improved transformer. What's not to like?

If I were you though, I'd honestly play both if that's at all possible and see which one appeals to you more. Even if you have to order both and return one and eat the return shipping cost. If you don't do that and if you're like me, you'll always wonder if the one you didn't get would have been better.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 3, 2022)

I wouldn't say they are all that Reliability. Being member of various evh 5150 groups there are loads of faulty new amps (withing 1st month). I totaly understand that out of thousands of owners there are like 5 with faulty amps and they are frustrated and write it in the group chat. So it looks a lot worse than it actually is. But is not nothing or


Hollowway said:


> Yeah, see I can’t decide between the stealth, the 6L6 III and the Iconic. StaymetalRay likes the Stealth hands down over the III because he says it’s more articulate. Idk how you guys feel about that statement, though. And for the price, if I can’t find a good used III or IIIS I could get a used LBX and new Iconic for roughly the same price. But I think there’s likely too much crossover. (I mean, I have a Fryette UL and 50CL, so I don’t really need these anyway, so I guess that’s not an issue, lol. But I do like me high gain amps that sound identical to my wife )


There is hardly any "metal" amp that cannot be turned into articulate and tight chug machine. Especially with over the top boosting that he does (dont like it at all - but this is just my taste so not relevant). 5150 OG is the father of those tones yet when playin amp alone withouth the boost its more of the bass heavy amp, not all that agressive  Put sd-1 in front and is chug machine fo days 
What I'm trying to say is that 6l6 50w will be plenty articulate


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 3, 2022)

That's also something I should probably mention as well while we're talking about it.

I don't always boost amps, but I do almost always run a Boss GE-7 EQ in front of my amps so I can cut bass if necessary, so I don't mind a bassier, slightly looser vanilla circuit like an OG 5150 at all because it just means that *I* get to do the low end filtering personally and precisely as opposed to the amp doing the low end filtering for me in a way I may or may not like.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 3, 2022)

I dont own a lot of amps from 5150 family, just 5150, 6505+ and 5150 50W 6l6 (v2). The best bang for the buck is 6505+ that I bought used  It can easily do gigs withouth any boost pedals. It sounds great with it for sure but can still be tight and agressive withouth one for sure. Love this amp. Not good for bedroom though 
5150 OG is legendary amp that is still used on tons of records but since EVH death the prices have jumped. Only based on that I recommend used 6505+ (made in usa).


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 4, 2022)

For all you big iron lovers, and those just curious…

(TL;DR at bottom)

Yesterday I picked up a 5153 100W (no NAD thread because that’s gotten outta hand for me over the last year or two—I’m even annoying myself). Really I only got it because it was a hell of a deal and because I wanted to check it directly compared to the 50W. Does it really have significantly more low end because “big iron?” Is there really a significant difference in the blue channels? So, basically I got it…you know…for science.

First of all we are definitely not wrong about it being huge. It’s almost comically big (TWSS).

Second, it’s a great amp. Just taken on it’s own merits, all three channels are fantastic, just like those on it’s little brother(s). There are a couple eccentricities though. For example it has no resonance knob. The Low knob works well so I don’t feel like it’s missing, but with it on the other amps, it’s an interesting omission (this one is old but they haven’t added it to the newer ones). Also the footswitch cable has like a 5-pin connector instead of the instrument cable the 50w uses. No biggie, just a note. 

Tonally, the 100w seems to have significantly more midrange content. That’s noticeable on both the blue and red channels. IMO, the 50 is too scooped with the mids off and has a little too much (but is still perfectly usable) with mids dimed.The 100 is plenty usable with zero mids (but not crazy scooped) and definitely too much mids for me with it dimed.

The 100w also seems to have less gain overall at identical knob settings but both have plenty of gain. And that’s with my 50W having a lower gain 5751 in V1.

Tonally, if I dial one in to sound great, I think I can get the other to match. Volume wise I really don’t see a significant difference. They’re both really good at low volume (yes even the 100w) and both can get too loud.

For me the 50W is still a no brainer. I don’t feel like there’s a significant difference tonally on any channel, the 50 is smaller and lighter, I like that it has a presence knob, and it’s significantly cheaper (new). I can’t even say anything about “big iron” because it has the same transformers as the 100 (I’d forgotten about that until seeing it mentioned in an old video). 

These are my custom 2x12s (about as wide as smaller 4x12s).




TL;DR, if you don’t NEED the separate EQ for green and blue channels, just get the 50. Which I’m still calling the “BOAT.”


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Jan 4, 2022)

The resonance knobs on the 100w Stealth models make a huuuuge difference.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 4, 2022)

Dammit, @Deadpool_25, every time you bump this thread I wonder if my incoming Iconic is going to be BOATish or if I should just cancel and fork out more for the III because you are so convincing.  I doubt I could hear the difference between the two, but you are a good salesman!


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 4, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> For all you big iron lovers, and those just curious…
> 
> (TL;DR at bottom)
> 
> ...



This picture is so unsettling yet so satisfying.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 4, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> This picture is so unsettling yet so satisfying.


Satisfying to us, unsettling to @Deadpool_25 's S.O. becuase he clearly has those in the living room.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 5, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Satisfying to us, unsettling to @Deadpool_25 's S.O. becuase he clearly has those in the living room.



My S.O. Is my bank account these days.

So you’re right.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 5, 2022)

I posted very similar info about the 100w amps vs 50w amps a couple days ago, glad to see we agree on all the major differences!

Something to note about the midrange... you can approximate the 100w's mids on the 50w amps by using an EQ to boost the mids from the guitar going into the amp. That goes a long way. As for the fixed internal resonance control of the 100w... I'll agree with @MASS DEFECT that the resonance controls on the 100w Stealth and 100w EL34 do make a big difference. I want to say the standard 100w 5150 III's internal resonance control is set to the equivalent of about 4.5 on the typical knob value.

As for the differences in the Blue channels, I want to say Cliff over at Fractal Audio mentioned that the 50w's Blue channel input network is roughly twice as hot as the 100w's Blue channel, so that probably explains that, and it also suggests you could mimic the 50w's Blue channel on the 100w with a clean boost.

Let us know if you can test that stuff out!


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 5, 2022)

That is 100% confirmed that 100W and 50W have identical transformers?


----------



## LCW (Jan 5, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Dammit, @Deadpool_25, every time you bump this thread I wonder if my incoming Iconic is going to be BOATish or if I should just cancel and fork out more for the III because you are so convincing.  I doubt I could hear the difference between the two, but you are a good salesman!



Don’t worry the Iconic is almost 20 lbs lighter than the 100W III and 2” narrower.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 5, 2022)

Boris_VTR said:


> That is 100% confirmed that 100W and 50W have identical transformers?



At 5:38 to 5:55 in this old video they say, “all the same transformers, tubes, pots, everything as the big amp just at 50 watts and about half the size and half the cost.”

I have no real reason to doubt that was and still is the case. Anecdotally, the 50W amps are lighter than the 100s but still kinda heavy for their size and just looking in the head the transformers are big, looking to be the same size.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 5, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> At 5:38 to 5:55 in this old video they say, “all the same transformers, tubes, pots, everything as the big amp just at 50 watts and about half the size and half the cost.”
> 
> I have no real reason to doubt that was and still is the case. Anecdotally, the 50W amps are lighter than the 100s but still kinda heavy for their size and just looking in the head the transformers are big, looking to be the same size.



This is cool. When I bought 50W I was thinking will the smaller tranformers play a big part in the sound. Nice to hear that they are the same


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 5, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> For all you big iron lovers, and those just curious…
> 
> (TL;DR at bottom)
> 
> ...


You've pleased the 5150 gods with your offering of this write up.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 5, 2022)

Boris_VTR said:


> That is 100% confirmed that 100W and 50W have identical transformers?



The 100w EL34 and 100w Stealth have slightly larger output transformers than the 50w 6L6, at least that's the case with mine.

Not sure about the standard 6L6 head, and I'm not an electronics engineer so I have no idea what that actually means or what's inside it, but they do look different.


----------



## EdgeCrusher (Jan 5, 2022)

I'd have to agree with your sentiments regarding the 50w 6L6. Pretty much the perfect package when it comes to price, weight, tone, versatility, etc. I don't even mind the shared EQ for green/blue. I set the controls to 5 or 6 and it sounds great on both channels to me with no real noticeable volume jump.

My previous rig back in late 2000's when I was gigging was a Mesa Mark III red stripe head into a Mesa halfback 412 (with a fully closed back) with 4 EVM-12Ls. This was pretty much my holy grail tone, but holy shit, it was the heaviest rig ever. I can't believe I actually used to haul it around for gigs, lol. I ended up deciding to downsize after the band broke up, as I just didn't need that much power and didn't want the weight. I sold the Mark III and 412 cab, and ended up with an original 50w EVH head for $750 and a ported 112 V30 cab, which has been my main rig for 6-7 years now. I do regret selling the Mark III, but mostly only for sentimental and monetary reasons (holy shit the price skyrocketed on those amps! 3x the price of what I sold it for now). I can still get a fantastic tight tone, but in a much smaller and easier to transport package.

Just curious for those who own a Mark amp and an EVH; how comparable do you find them to be in regards to tightness and feel? I wish I had the chance to compare them side by side. The Mark V:25 would be the only other amp I would want to buy, but not with EL84 tubes. A 50w 6L6 Mark however might just the true perfect amp for me. The EVH is way easier to dial in as you mentioned, though the 5 band GEQ allowed for supreme versatility. From memory, the cleans and lead tones were slightly better on the Mark, but when it comes to high gain, the EVH is more modern with way more gain on tap, but somewhat comparable in terms of that tight feel and tone.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE (Jan 5, 2022)

Another dumb question: on the 50w stealth how necessary is having a gate in the effects loop? My old 6505 combo had a ton of preamp noise when gained up so it felt pretty necessary there...


----------



## technomancer (Jan 5, 2022)

And so it begins



Deadpool_25 said:


> For all you big iron lovers, and those just curious…
> 
> (TL;DR at bottom)
> 
> ...


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 5, 2022)

DEUCE SLUICE said:


> Another dumb question: on the 50w stealth how necessary is having a gate in the effects loop? My old 6505 combo had a ton of preamp noise when gained up so it felt pretty necessary there...



I feel like it’s _maybe_ a touch quieter than the others but still needs a gate in the loop to reduce hiss.

I think it’s just the byproduct of adding that much gain through that many preamp tubes.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 5, 2022)

technomancer said:


> And so it begins


 Hush u

In all seriousness I bought it to compare and then most likely flip and that’s exactly what’s gonna happen lol


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Jan 5, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Hush u
> 
> In all seriousness I bought it to compare and then most likely flip and that’s exactly what’s gonna happen lol


3 50Watters, and 3 100 Watters, plus 6505, 6505+, iconic, 6534, 5150 and 5150 II seems a reasonable collection. Bonus if you get all the combo versions.


----------



## DeathByButterslax (Jan 5, 2022)

Seabeast2000 said:


> 3 50Watters, and 3 100 Watters, plus 6505, 6505+, iconic, 6534, 5150 and 5150 II seems a reasonable collection. Bonus if you get all the combo versions.


yeah but then he'd be missing a 6505 II and the 6505 1992


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Jan 5, 2022)

DeathByButterslax said:


> yeah but then he'd be missing a 6505 II and the 6505 1992



Also, reasonable additions.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 5, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Hush u
> 
> In all seriousness I bought it to compare and then most likely flip and that’s exactly what’s gonna happen lol



Of course, of course. But what about comparing the 100W Stealth to the 50W?


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 5, 2022)




----------



## Meeotch (Jan 5, 2022)

EdgeCrusher said:


> Just curious for those who own a Mark amp and an EVH; how comparable do you find them to be in regards to tightness and feel? I wish I had the chance to compare them side by side. The Mark V:25 would be the only other amp I would want to buy, but not with EL84 tubes. A 50w 6L6 Mark however might just the true perfect amp for me. The EVH is way easier to dial in as you mentioned, though the 5 band GEQ allowed for supreme versatility. From memory, the cleans and lead tones were slightly better on the Mark, but when it comes to high gain, the EVH is more modern with way more gain on tap, but somewhat comparable in terms of that tight feel and tone.



I've owned the EVH 50w 6L6 and currently have a collection of Mark amps including a III green stripe. Like you mentioned, the Marks have better cleans. I would say way better, but the EVH cleans are fine. Just a bit vanilla IMO.

Marks are pretty tight in general, but I will boost them for getting that surgical high gain riffing thang. The Mark III and IV have plenty of gain for me, but I find the JP2C needs a little help for the brutz. Pulling gain and maxing treble gets it there honestly, but I prefer backing those off a bit and boosting. It has the shred mode but I usually prefer using my own boost. 

EVH channel 3 I did not feel needed a boost. Plenty tight and gained out, but the Marks just feel better and have a quickness/immediacy that is addicting. Not as modern as EVH red channel but honestly with the onboard 5-band, an EQ up front, and an EQ in the loop you can make a Mark sound like damn near anything you want.

I really liked the EVH blue channel with a boost. Similar tones to the red channel but I liked the feel more. It also gets a better classic rock tone than the Mark amps.

Overall I've gravitated to Marks over the 5150 lineage. I would say it's worth owning both and I will probably pick up some version of a 5150 in the future. I think Marks just feel better to play and that is something that doesn't really come across on recordings.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 5, 2022)

@Deadpool_25 any opinion of the Iconic 4x12, based on what James B said in the other thread? All I’ve ever owned is 1x12s and my current VHT Fat Bottom 4x12 with P50Es. I was planning on ordering the iconic cab, but that video of Ola playing the iconic combo, and saying the speaker sounded too scooped scared me away. Based on what you know, and what James said, do you think the Iconic 4x12 is going to be worth getting, or do you expect the 5150 to sound good through my FB. I know nothing about speakers, and would have taken Ola’s comment at face value, but James said this cab sounds like it’s between the 90s EVH cabs and the current EVH cabs. Which would, if I’m correct here, NOT be scooped. But you have all those 5150 cabs, so I figure you know better than anyone.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 5, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> @Deadpool_25 any opinion of the Iconic 4x12, based on what James B said in the other thread? All I’ve ever owned is 1x12s and my current VHT Fat Bottom 4x12 with P50Es. I was planning on ordering the iconic cab, but that video of Ola playing the iconic combo, and saying the speaker sounded too scooped scared me away. Based on what you know, and what James said, do you think the Iconic 4x12 is going to be worth getting, or do you expect the 5150 to sound good through my FB. I know nothing about speakers, and would have taken Ola’s comment at face value, but James said this cab sounds like it’s between the 90s EVH cabs and the current EVH cabs. Which would, if I’m correct here, NOT be scooped. But you have all those 5150 cabs, so I figure you know better than anyone.



Actually the only 5150 cabs I own are the two EVH 1x12s (and I haven’t really used those much at all tbh). My other cabs are a few custom 2x12s with the V30/Creamback combo. I’ve owned a few Mesa cabs over ther years and a couple Marshall 1960As but that’s about it. So unfortunately I’m actually not qualified to answer your questions. 

Lacking any other info I’d say you should just use the FB and see how you like it. If you hate it then try something else. I feel like the Iconic cab is just an unknown at this point, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s pretty good. James clearly has a really good ear (especially so for VH tones).


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 6, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> Actually the only 5150 cabs I own are the two EVH 1x12s (and I haven’t really used those much at all tbh). My other cabs are a few custom 2x12s with the V30/Creamback combo. I’ve owned a few Mesa cabs over ther years and a couple Marshall 1960As but that’s about it. So unfortunately I’m actually not qualified to answer your questions.
> 
> Lacking any other info is say you should just use the FB and see JM how you like it. If you hate it then try something else. I feel like the Iconic cab is just an unknown at this point, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s pretty good. James clearly has a really good ear (especially so for VH tones).


Ah, ok. Yeah, I actually called in the order to GC tonight, but I didn’t realize there’s a $70 shipping charge on cabs. The guy on the phone told me that’s refundable if I don’t like the cab, but I didn’t believe him, so I called a store and they said that’s definitely not refundable. So I’ll probably cancel the order. I don’t want to roll the dice on the cab if I have a great one already. But it would be cool to have a different cab to play around with.


----------



## cardinal (Jan 6, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Ah, ok. Yeah, I actually called in the order to GC tonight, but I didn’t realize there’s a $70 shipping charge on cabs. The guy on the phone told me that’s refundable if I don’t like the cab, but I didn’t believe him, so I called a store and they said that’s definitely not refundable. So I’ll probably cancel the order. I don’t want to roll the dice on the cab if I have a great one already. But it would be cool to have a different cab to play around with.


FWIW I've gotten on the phone with them and they were willing to waive the shipping fee, but it took some talking.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 6, 2022)

cardinal said:


> FWIW I've gotten on the phone with them and they were willing to waive the shipping fee, but it took some talking.


Well, good news! I had zero luck talking them out of shipping. BUT your suggestion inspired me to keep trying, so I did have them price match a store in some other state that isn’t charging shipping. So it’s on the way. They wouldn’t apply any coupons, but 499.99 with no shipping is still a steal!


----------



## cardinal (Jan 6, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Well, good news! I had zero luck talking them out of shipping. BUT your suggestion inspired me to keep trying, so I did have them price match a store in some other state that isn’t charging shipping. So it’s on the way. They wouldn’t apply any coupons, but 499.99 with no shipping is still a steal!


Actually now that I think about it, that's how we ultimately framed it, as a price match to someone else.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 6, 2022)

cardinal said:


> Actually now that I think about it, that's how we ultimately framed it, as a price match to someone else.


Yeah, and their “price match guarantee” is kind of weird, because they won’t price match all stores. I gave them one store and they said, “that’s not one of the stores we’ll price match for EVH.”


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 6, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, and their “price match guarantee” is kind of weird, because they won’t price match all stores. I gave them one store and they said, “that’s not one of the stores we’ll price match for EVH.”


Pretty sure some stores are franchised out, I'm assuming they won't price match as the owners have margins to hit that the corporate stores don't. I'm only speculating, could be completely wrong.


----------



## technomancer (Jan 6, 2022)

I'll just leave this here...


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 8, 2022)

Now that I’ve got a 5153 6L6 50W and the iconic on the way, I wonder if I should get a 5150/6505 or a 5152/6505+. I’ve read that some people consider the 5153 to be “too refined” and the I and II being much more aggressive/brutal. Sooo…what’s the story there?


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 8, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Now that I’ve got a 5153 6L6 50W and the iconic on the way, I wonder if I should get a 5150/6505 or a 5152/6505+. I’ve read that some people consider the 5153 to be “too refined” and the I and II being much more aggressive/brutal. Sooo…what’s the story there?


do you like thick low end that hits like a sledgehammer or already tight stuff? 5153 is tighter and more responsive out of the gate.
the og and the ii have broader midranges with more low mid roar/grind from what i remember. The 5153 slices in the upper mids, the others bludgeon. That's part of why they're more brutal.
The 5153 is more sculpted and has more usable gain range.
The el34 5153 and stealth add back in the low mids to an extent but still aren't as broad sounding as the OG imo.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 8, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Now that I’ve got a 5153 6L6 50W and the iconic on the way, I wonder if I should get a 5150/6505 or a 5152/6505+. I’ve read that some people consider the 5153 to be “too refined” and the I and II being much more aggressive/brutal. Sooo…what’s the story there?


I'd say get a non-plus 6505/5150. The 6505+ is tighter and kind of a middle ground between the 5150 and 5153, so the 5150/6505 would be great to have something extra thicc with more body.


----------



## Werecow (Jan 8, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Sooo…what’s the story there?



Just different people having different tastes. I prefer the punch and refinement of the 5153, so that is what i own. There is no right and wrong.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 8, 2022)

Can those 6505s get quiet enough for home use? I’ve read mixed reviews on it. But there’s a guy selling one for 6505+ for $850 I might grab.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 9, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Can those 6505s get quiet enough for home use? I’ve read mixed reviews on it. But there’s a guy selling one for 6505+ for $850 I might grab.



Generally speaking, yes. But it can be touchy and it kinda depends on your definition of “quiet enough for home use.”


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 9, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Now that I’ve got a 5153 6L6 50W and the iconic on the way, I wonder if I should get a 5150/6505 or a 5152/6505+. I’ve read that some people consider the 5153 to be “too refined” and the I and II being much more aggressive/brutal. Sooo…what’s the story there?



The Peaveys sound more raw imo. The 5153s a little less so. But they’re all more than capable of being plenty heavy and brutal. It’s pure preference and you won’t really know which you prefer until you try them all, in the same sitting if possible.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 9, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> The Peaveys sound more raw imo. The 5153s a little less so. But they’re all more than capable of being plenty heavy and brutal. It’s pure preference and you won’t really know which you prefer until you try them all, in the same sitting if possible.


Welp, looks like I'm gonna order a 6505.  I do like a raw sound, so maybe I'd did that. I've read that it sounds looser, which I'm not thrilled about. But we'll see. You've got me convinced the 5153s are the cat's pajamas, though, now I'm going down the rabbit hole!

And by home use, I mean can I practice with it without worrying about my ears ringing afterwards. I live in a house, not apartment, so I don't have to worry about noise levels. But I've played some amps that are just unusable at lower levels, because the minute you touch the MV it's too loud already. I'm not playing live, so I don't need that. I'm just an average guitar player with a gear addition problem, so I just need it to be fun to play at home.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 9, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Can those 6505s get quiet enough for home use? I’ve read mixed reviews on it. But there’s a guy selling one for 6505+ for $850 I might grab.



The thing about the OG 5150's "bedroom" volume performance is that the Master Volume can control the levels at those quiet ranges well enough, but even with the master volume at 0, there's a very quiet fizzy high end that is always on and coming through the speakers that the Master Volume doesn't control, almost like that fizzy high end signal is running in parallel with the "real" sound that the volume knob controls.

The 5150's Master volume control is good but for the amp's "intended" tone to really come out, the Master has to be turned up to at least, I'd say, "loud voice volumes" if not slightly louder than that, before the amp's "actual" intended tone outweighs the super fizzy but quiet "always on" signal enough to nullify it.


----------



## AussieTerry (Jan 9, 2022)

I wanna add more fizz, Tung Sol in V1-3 the way to go? I like a messy tone.

I bought my 6L6 head used and i think its the orig tubes and they are worn in from being played live.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 9, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Welp, looks like I'm gonna order a 6505.  I do like a raw sound, so maybe I'd did that. I've read that it sounds looser, which I'm not thrilled about. But we'll see. You've got me convinced the 5153s are the cat's pajamas, though, now I'm going down the rabbit hole!
> 
> And by home use, I mean can I practice with it without worrying about my ears ringing afterwards. I live in a house, not apartment, so I don't have to worry about noise levels. But I've played some amps that are just unusable at lower levels, because the minute you touch the MV it's too loud already. I'm not playing live, so I don't need that. I'm just an average guitar player with a gear addition problem, so I just need it to be fun to play at home.



The rabbit hole is deep, my friend. Enjoy the dark descent. 

I live in a house as well so I know what you mean. Yeah the 6505 can do what you’re asking in terms of volume.

If the 6505 (non-plus; that’s my favorite one) had a clean channel I liked as much as the 5153’s it would pretty much be a toss-up to me between that and the 5153 50w heads. I do like a few features of the 5153 better (notably midi and size) but tonally the 5151/6505 crunch and lead are right up there with the 5153 blue and red in terms of awesomeness.


----------



## yan12 (Jan 9, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> @Deadpool_25 any opinion of the Iconic 4x12, based on what James B said in the other thread? All I’ve ever owned is 1x12s and my current VHT Fat Bottom 4x12 with P50Es. I was planning on ordering the iconic cab, but that video of Ola playing the iconic combo, and saying the speaker sounded too scooped scared me away. Based on what you know, and what James said, do you think the Iconic 4x12 is going to be worth getting, or do you expect the 5150 to sound good through my FB. I know nothing about speakers, and would have taken Ola’s comment at face value, but James said this cab sounds like it’s between the 90s EVH cabs and the current EVH cabs. Which would, if I’m correct here, NOT be scooped. But you have all those 5150 cabs, so I figure you know better than anyone.



As a firm believer in VHT cabs, I can assure you it will sound great. Especially if you have the p50e's broken in.
I own and have owned many cabs in my day, and VHT is what I have kept. They are special and pair well with all types of amps. If you need info on them or help with settings just send me a pm.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 10, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Now that I’ve got a 5153 6L6 50W and the iconic on the way, I wonder if I should get a 5150/6505 or a 5152/6505+. I’ve read that some people consider the 5153 to be “too refined” and the I and II being much more aggressive/brutal. Sooo…what’s the story there?


I'm similar to you and have accumulated couple of amps over the years. Now kinda wish I didn't because at the end of the day I pretty much dial them the same way and nuances or not....they all sound kinda same. High gain. And there is just not enough hours in a day to cycle through them all so I kinda feel bad to not play one for months on end. Just one 5150/6505+ would be enough for me and would cover all the music I play. Even on clean they are not all that terrible. Or EVH 5150 100w (with resonance control) - perfect all around amp for metalhead.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 10, 2022)

Boris_VTR said:


> I'm similar to you and have accumulated couple of amps over the years. Now kinda wish I didn't because at the end of the day I pretty much dial them the same way and nuances or not....they all sound kinda same. High gain. And there is just not enough hours in a day to cycle through them all so I kinda feel bad to not play one for months on end. Just one 5150/6505+ would be enough for me and would cover all the music I play. Even on clean they are not all that terrible. Or EVH 5150 100w (with resonance control) - perfect all around amp for metalhead.


I’m definitely there with you, but currently with guitars. I love having them all, but I feel guilty going a super long time without playing them.


----------



## CTID (Jan 11, 2022)

just posting to say i had to sell my 5153 50W and marshall 1960a to help fund my wife and i's move cross country and while i'm glad i moved, MAN do i regret selling my stuff


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 12, 2022)

CTID said:


> just posting to say i had to sell my 5153 50W and marshall 1960a to help fund my wife and i's move cross country and while i'm glad i moved, MAN do i regret selling my stuff


Luckily both of them are not that dificult to find should you ever wish to buy them again


----------



## guitar_player4_2_0 (Jan 12, 2022)

CTID said:


> just posting to say i had to sell my 5153 50W and marshall 1960a to help fund my wife and i's move cross country and while i'm glad i moved, MAN do i regret selling my stuff



It sucks to lose gear you dig but 1. As said they are replaceable fairly easily and 2. Props for putting family before self. Maybe you will luck out and score a good deal down the road. Just don’t pay more than you sold them for.


----------



## Estilo (Jan 12, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> And by home use, I mean can I practice with it without worrying about my ears ringing afterwards. I live in a house, not apartment, so I don't have to worry about noise levels. But I've played some amps that are just unusable at lower levels, because the minute you touch the MV it's too loud already. I'm not playing live, so I don't need that. I'm just an average guitar player with a gear addition problem, so I just need it to be fun to play at home.



I have a 6505+ and I play at conversational volumes. The power amp does nothing to shape the tone, so set the gain to your taste and touch the MV lightly to how loud you want them. I also run an EQ pedal with volume control in the FX loop to tame the MV.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 13, 2022)

Hey guys, riddle me this: I always heard that the 5150/6505 variants were very mid heavy. But over the past few weeks I’ve heard people describe them as “scooped.” They’re on drugs, right?


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 13, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Hey guys, riddle me this: I always heard that the 5150/6505 variants were very mid heavy. But over the past few weeks I’ve heard people describe them as “scooped.” They’re on drugs, right?



I only really hear old boomers that think any modern amp sounds like a $15 distortion pedal say that.  The 5150 and 5150II are ungodly mid heavy. The 5153 doesn't have as aggressive of a midrange so it does sound a bit more scooped compared to a 5150(II).


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 13, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> I only really hear old boomers that think any modern amp sounds like a $15 distortion pedal say that.  The 5150 and 5150II are ungodly mid heavy. The 5153 doesn't have as aggressive of a midrange so it does sound a bit more scooped compared to a 5150(II).


I did see most of those comments on forums that likely skew older (Marshall forum, etc). I think some people don’t know what “scooped” sounds like, too.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 13, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I did see most of those comments on forums that likely skew older (Marshall forum, etc). I think some people don’t know what “scooped” sounds like, too.


Well compared to Marshalls they probably are scooped


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 13, 2022)

5150/6505s are definitely scooped….when you dial the mid knob way back. And can be pretty mid heavy when you turn the mid knob up. /shrug

I’ve always though the interesting thing about them was the kinda cocked-wah character they have which seems mostly evident in the mids.


----------



## Werecow (Jan 13, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> I’ve always though the interesting thing about them was the kinda cocked-wah character they have which seems mostly evident in the mids.


I get a weird ear fatigue or psychological fatigue thing where suddenly all i can concentrate on is that character of the 5150 sound sometimes, then i know it's time to switch to a different amp for a few weeks. When i come back it's like being at home again.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 13, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Hey guys, riddle me this: I always heard that the 5150/6505 variants were very mid heavy. But over the past few weeks I’ve heard people describe them as “scooped.” They’re on drugs, right?



Yes. I'll second @HeHasTheJazzHands and say 5150's are hugely mid-heavy amps, arguably more than most other high gain amps.

People who tell you 5150's are scooped are just doing the association thing where they pair up 5150's in their heads with "generic metal," which they don't listen to but they've "heard" is "always" scooped, so obviously the 5150 itself must be scooped as well, right?

Relatively speaking of course you can 0 the mids and max the other tone knobs and at they point they become more scooped, but the normal recommended "TMB all on 6" setup is anything but scooped.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 13, 2022)

Mid heavy beasts, 6 6 6 on the dials and you're cutting through the mix and sitting really nice, and making satan happy which is kick ass.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 13, 2022)

Boris_VTR said:


> Well compared to Marshalls they probably are scooped



Idunno, a 5150 can keep up with a Marshall IMO. Only if you're intentionally scooping the 5150's mids.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 13, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> 5150/6505s are definitely scooped….when you dial the mid knob way back. And can be pretty mid heavy when you turn the mid knob up. /shrug
> 
> I’ve always though the interesting thing about them was the kinda cocked-wah character they have which seems mostly evident in the mids.



I think this is most present in the 5150 II / 6505+ amps where they added really aggressive bass filtering at the input to tighten up the sound. While it did tighten things up, it kind of came at the cost of making a guitar sound like a half cocked wah.

The OG 5150 actually has much less low end filtering and can actually sound a bit muddy if you just plug a guitar straight into it, not unlike a Dual Recto (both amps were descended from the SLO after all). I view this as a good thing because that means if I use an EQ pedal going into the amp, then _I_ get to choose exactly what the low end filtering looks like for my own guitar instead of having to work around a one-size-fits-all solution.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 13, 2022)

Scooped = word used to describe something you don't like because it's not a boutique Marshall clone.

-Random TGP user.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 15, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Idunno, a 5150 can keep up with a Marshall IMO. Only if you're intentionally scooping the 5150's mids.


Not saying that 5150 doesnt have enough mids its just that marshall have even more mids. If there is mids battle I would pick Marshall


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin (Jan 15, 2022)

So I was playing through my 5153, and decided to plug in my savage drive. I was using my LTD 100 Arrow with an EMG 81 in the bridge, and I just could not get it to improve the the tone in any perceptible way. It actually sounded worse with it on. Is it just because the amp kicks so much ass? Or do I need to try and put it through the effects loop?


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 15, 2022)

Boris_VTR said:


> Not saying that 5150 doesnt have enough mids its just that marshall have even more mids. If there is mids battle I would pick Marshall


It’s an interesting question, because I hear people say that the 5153 EL34s have a more rock tone, because there are more high mids than a 515X 6L6. And people say the 515X 6L6 has more low mids, which lends itself to modern metal. So maybe they are both mid heavy, but at different frequencies?


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 15, 2022)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> So I was playing through my 5153, and decided to plug in my savage drive. I was using my LTD 100 Arrow with an EMG 81 in the bridge, and I just could not get it to improve the the tone in any perceptible way. It actually sounded worse with it on. Is it just because the amp kicks so much ass? Or do I need to try and put it through the effects loop?


Unpopular opinion here but boost rarely improves tone. It just squezes everything into this narrow mid band that its just harsh. Its good for mixes when guitar is in your face (when guitarist is doing the mix) and you cannot actually hear anything else. Usually youtubers. A lot of pro band mixes have guitars lower in the mix so that vocals, drums, etc can also be heard. 
Different story with amps that are not that high gain to begin with....you just push them into saturation.
5153 red channel is kinda mix/live ready and I dont feel the need for boost. Blue channel works better with boost.

I think that this boosting thing is getting a little out of control. No need to boost everything and not everyone is going for this buzzsaw harsh sound


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 15, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> It’s an interesting question, because I hear people say that the 5153 EL34s have a more rock tone, because there are more high mids than a 515X 6L6. And people say the 515X 6L6 has more low mids, which lends itself to modern metal. So maybe they are both mid heavy, but at different frequencies?


They all have more than enough mids


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 15, 2022)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> So I was playing through my 5153, and decided to plug in my savage drive. I was using my LTD 100 Arrow with an EMG 81 in the bridge, and I just could not get it to improve the the tone in any perceptible way. It actually sounded worse with it on. Is it just because the amp kicks so much ass? Or do I need to try and put it through the effects loop?



The red channel is so pre filtered that i think using a boost makes such a small difference. In fact I'm wondering if all that midrange content overloads the amp due to all that midrange content. I just know that its a common complaint with the 5153 red channel. Try the blue channel.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 15, 2022)

Dumple Stilzkin said:


> So I was playing through my 5153, and decided to plug in my savage drive. I was using my LTD 100 Arrow with an EMG 81 in the bridge, and I just could not get it to improve the the tone in any perceptible way. It actually sounded worse with it on. Is it just because the amp kicks so much ass? Or do I need to try and put it through the effects loop?



It’s easy to get wrapped up in using a boost because “it’s just what we do” but that’s a mistake imo. Use a boost with purpose. Are you trying to tighten the low end? Boost mids? Add gain? If none of the above, you may not need a boost at all.


----------



## BadSeed (Jan 15, 2022)

Yesterday I stuck a USA 12AT7 in v4 of my EVH 5150 50 Watt Stealth and now I can't get enough of the red channel. Recorded a little clip boosting it with a KHDK ghoul screamer. Here are the results


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 15, 2022)

BadSeed said:


> Yesterday I stuck a USA 12AT7 in v4 of my EVH 5150 50 Watt Stealth and now I can't get enough of the red channel. Recorded a little clip boosting it with a KHDK ghoul screamer. Here are the results



That's cool. And it only affects the red channel, if I'm reading the tube layout correctly. How did you come up with the idea to swap that out? Is that a known mod? Now I'm curious what a 12AU7 would do in there!


----------



## BadSeed (Jan 15, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> That's cool. And it only affects the red channel, if I'm reading the tube layout correctly. How did you come up with the idea to swap that out? Is that a known mod? Now I'm curious what a 12AU7 would do in there!



Yep, only affects the red channel! I always felt the red channels had too much Gain and compression for my tastes, so naturally a lower gain/output tube should help this in theory. In my application, i feel like it allows me to push the gain a little more on the red channel which allows it to fill out in frequencies without getting way too saturated and compressed.


----------



## sleewell (Jan 15, 2022)

Thread inspired me lol


Incoming 5153 50w 6l6 Kruse modded.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 15, 2022)

BadSeed said:


> Yep, only affects the red channel! I always felt the red channels had too much Gain and compression for my tastes, so naturally a lower gain/output tube should help this in theory. In my application, i feel like it allows me to push the gain a little more on the red channel which allows it to fill out in frequencies without getting way too saturated and compressed.


I know you like this amp, and I know you like your 6505+. Do you have a favorite between the two? (For tone only, not features.) I’m guessing the 6505+ because of the particular mid frequencies.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 16, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> That's cool. And it only affects the red channel, if I'm reading the tube layout correctly. How did you come up with the idea to swap that out? Is that a known mod? Now I'm curious what a 12AU7 would do in there!



Yes. It's a very common thing in basically any amp. You can do it to lower the gain on higainers, or make the volume more controllable in classic amps. If the amp has independent tubes for each channel, then it's a no brainer. My Engl is filled with 5751s since I don't need that much gain, and it makes the range of the controls way more useable.

With that being said, I never recommend 12AU7 or 12AT7. 5751 or 12AY7 tubes are more similar to 12AX7s electrically, and just sound better.


----------



## The Thing Upstairs (Jan 16, 2022)

BadSeed said:


> Yesterday I stuck a USA 12AT7 in v4 of my EVH 5150 50 Watt Stealth and now I can't get enough of the red channel. Recorded a little clip boosting it with a KHDK ghoul screamer. Here are the results




I’ve owned the 6l6 (twice) and the el34. I still have the el34 and after putting I can’t remember what lower gain valves in for the red channel, it has improved it massively by making it smoother and more usable.
Blue with a boost is tight for metal, knock the boost off for a more classic sound. Red for lead or for its own rhythm.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 16, 2022)

Boris_VTR said:


> Unpopular opinion here but boost rarely improves tone. It just squezes everything into this narrow mid band that its just harsh.
> 
> I think that this boosting thing is getting a little out of control. No need to boost everything and not everyone is going for this buzzsaw harsh sound



This is not necessarily true. A _Tubescreamer_ emphasizes the midrange because it's so inherently mid-focused, but clean boosts do not do this.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jan 16, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> This is not necessarily true. A _Tubescreamer_ emphasizes the midrange because it's so inherently mid-focused, but clean boosts do not do this.


Technically, yes. But a lot of clean boosts also have EQ trickery built into them as well. To be clear, I don’t have a horse in this race. I like my boosted tones in general and I can see the appeal of them without boosting.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 16, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> This is not necessarily true. A _Tubescreamer_ emphasizes the midrange because it's so inherently mid-focused, but clean boosts do not do this.



99,9% of people on this board use TS-type boosts. Let's not split hairs, because I don't see much klone talking around here


----------



## USMarine75 (Jan 16, 2022)

Regarding boosts there are tons of different circuits that have different effects on your tone. Everything from full range boosts (Xotic EP, EP Boost, FET, Klone, etc) to mid and treble boosters. Typically with mid boosters you also have varying low cuts (TS) and sometimes high cuts as well. Treble boosters are very similar but only have a low cut. You can also use a traditional OD (Slamurai, DS1) you just have to manipulate the pedal EQ and often the amp EQ as well, especially on a gainy amp like 5150s. 

TLDR You can dime an amp and use a mid/treble booster. If you’re using a full range boost you either can’t dime it or you have to roll off the amp bass EQ otherwise it will get muddy real quick. 



Deadpool_25 said:


> The rabbit hole is deep, my friend. Enjoy the dark descent.
> 
> I live in a house as well so I know what you mean. Yeah the 6505 can do what you’re asking in terms of volume.
> 
> If the 6505 (non-plus; that’s my favorite one) had a clean channel I liked as much as the 5153’s it would pretty much be a toss-up to me between that and the 5153 50w heads. I do like a few features of the 5153 better (notably midi and size) but tonally the 5151/6505 crunch and lead are right up there with the 5153 blue and red in terms of awesomeness.



Jerry at FJA Mods can fix that. He has a separate clean third channel mod that sounds killer.


----------



## Shask (Jan 16, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> 99,9% of people on this board use TS-type boosts. Let's not split hairs, because I don't see much klone talking around here


Sometimes I use my Klone, lol.

Lately I have been into using my RAT clone. That is a cool sound also. I just ordered a PCB so I can build another RAT clone, but with the clipping options.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 17, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> 99,9% of people on this board use TS-type boosts. Let's not split hairs, because I don't see much klone talking around here



Do they? I've never liked TS style boosts in my 5150's for those very reasons. I've always gone with an EQ pedal.

Still, people come to this place looking for info, and it's not true that "all boosts" inherently make 5150's sound "squashed and narrow." It's exactly that kind of dogma that keeps people from trying out new approaches that they may end up loving.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 17, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> Do they? I've never liked TS style boosts in my 5150's for those very reasons. I've always gone with an EQ pedal.
> 
> Still, people come to this place looking for info, and it's not true that "all boosts" inherently make 5150's sound "squashed and narrow." It's exactly that kind of dogma that keeps people from trying out new approaches that they may end up loving.


Actually I feel that opposite is true. That 5150+boost is the default so everybody new starts with that. Because its a must. It should be just playing with amp for some time and then add boost/whatever if needed.


----------



## laxu (Jan 17, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> 99,9% of people on this board use TS-type boosts. Let's not split hairs, because I don't see much klone talking around here



Count me in the 0.1% then. Never bothered with boosts as I've had amps that can be dialed how I like. That doesn't mean I don't use overdrives, I just don't use them with that "gain on zero, boost the mids and cut bass" stuff that most thing about when talking about boosts with high gain amps.

It's been over 10 years since I've owned a TS type pedal too. I don't like them with anything but Fenders or similar inherently scooped amps.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 17, 2022)

laxu said:


> Count me in the 0.1% then. Never bothered with boosts as I've had amps that can be dialed how I like. That doesn't mean I don't use overdrives, I just don't use them with that "gain on zero, boost the mids and cut bass" stuff that most thing about when talking about boosts with high gain amps.
> 
> It's been over 10 years since I've owned a TS type pedal too. I don't like them with anything but Fenders or similar inherently scooped amps.



Counted! 

Honestly, I'm not even on that 0,1%. My only overdrives are Bloody Murder ODs (TS-808 clones) I bought on this site when they were the hip thing. That was like... 15 years ago? 

I haven't bought any other OD since then (I rarely use them anyway). Still, the BMOs are way less mid-focused than a regular TS and cut less lows, so they're more transparent overall.

I also use them for leads only. Boosting CH1 of my Victory Kraken (which sounds ultra-fat), to get it closer to CH2.

I really want to try one of these new Blackstar tube boosts that seem like a Kingsley Page ripoff, too. I like what I heard of them on demos.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 17, 2022)

Boris_VTR said:


> Actually I feel that opposite is true. That 5150+boost is the default so everybody new starts with that. Because its a must. It should be just playing with amp for some time and then add boost/whatever if needed.



I agree that if you're going to buy an amp, you should learn it inside and out before adding anything to it, just so you know exactly where it ends and the other elements start, as that will help you get where you're trying to go.

Also, the language here important. You said "5150+boost" which is different than "5150+tubescreamer." All tubescreamers are boosts, but not all boosts are tubescreamers. Differentiating between them matters. For example, I agree with you when you say tubescreamers make 5150's sound choked and too narrow in bandwidth, but I think "5150 + RC Booster, with the bass knob turned down slightly" or "5150 + Boss GE-7 with bass turned down slightly" sounds fantastic, increasing touch sensitivity without squashing the sound while retaining the Presence-y highs that give the amp sizzle and definition.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 17, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> I agree that if you're going to buy an amp, you should learn it inside and out before adding anything to it, just so you know exactly where it ends and the other elements start, as that will help you get where you're trying to go.
> 
> Also, the language here important. You said "5150+boost" which is different than "5150+tubescreamer." All tubescreamers are boosts, but not all boosts are tubescreamers. Differentiating between them matters. For example, I agree with you when you say tubescreamers make 5150's sound choked and too narrow in bandwidth, but I think "5150 + RC Booster, with the bass knob turned down slightly" or "5150 + Boss GE-7 with bass turned down slightly" sounds fantastic, increasing touch sensitivity without squashing the sound while retaining the Presence-y highs that give the amp sizzle and definition.


I agree with that. There are many creative ways to make awesome amp sound even better


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 18, 2022)

So, I got the 5150III 50W 6L6 V2 from guitar center, today. This was $899, plus $40 shipping, and it looks new. They sent the head, which still had the “stuff in California can cause cancer” tag on it, the plastic on the EVH badge, and the pedal cable was wrapped up with the little black ties. There was a speaker cable in there, too! 
I’m shocked at A) how good the green channel is, and B) how well this plays at bedroom volume. It doesn’t have that hair trigger MV that so many amps have.

The blue and red channels remind me of the crunch and lead channels on the Fryettes, with the lead (red) being more saturated and compressed. Though, both channels on the 5150 are more saturated than the Fryette. But that makes it waaaay more fun to play, lol.

Now my big decision is: keep this, keep the iconic, or get a 6505+.


----------



## IwantTacos (Jan 18, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> So, I got the 5150III 50W 6L6 V2 from guitar center, today. This was $899, plus $40 shipping, and it looks new. They sent the head, which still had the “stuff in California can cause cancer” tag on it, the plastic on the EVH badge, and the pedal cable was wrapped up with the little black ties. There was a speaker cable in there, too!
> I’m shocked at A) how good the green channel is, and B) how well this plays at bedroom volume. It doesn’t have that hair trigger MV that so many amps have.
> 
> The blue and red channels remind me of the crunch and lead channels on the Fryettes, with the lead (red) being more saturated and compressed. Though, both channels on the 5150 are more saturated than the Fryette. But that makes it waaaay more fun to play, lol.
> ...



The 5153 is the best. The iconic is a solid state amp.


----------



## Mwoit (Jan 18, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> So, I got the 5150III 50W 6L6 V2 from guitar center, today. This was $899, plus $40 shipping, and it looks new. They sent the head, which still had the “stuff in California can cause cancer” tag on it, the plastic on the EVH badge, and the pedal cable was wrapped up with the little black ties. There was a speaker cable in there, too!
> I’m shocked at A) how good the green channel is, and B) how well this plays at bedroom volume. It doesn’t have that hair trigger MV that so many amps have.
> 
> The blue and red channels remind me of the crunch and lead channels on the Fryettes, with the lead (red) being more saturated and compressed. Though, both channels on the 5150 are more saturated than the Fryette. But that makes it waaaay more fun to play, lol.
> ...



I actually do have a 6505+ which I got recently (it was intended for touring in 2020 but hey ho...), and I thought it was be a straight swap for the 5150 III (which I would leave at the studio). I find the 6505+ a lot darker and not as smooth sounding as the 5150 III. They are different sounding amps in my opinion.

Nowadays though, I hardly play them unless I'm jamming so it's been a while since I've revised those amps...


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 18, 2022)

IwantTacos said:


> The 5153 is the best. The iconic is a solid state amp.


Solid state PRACTICE amp mind you, you couldn't ever play a gig with that 80 watt thing.


----------



## LCW (Jan 18, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> So, I got the 5150III 50W 6L6 V2 from guitar center, today. This was $899, plus $40 shipping, and it looks new. They sent the head, which still had the “stuff in California can cause cancer” tag on it, the plastic on the EVH badge, and the pedal cable was wrapped up with the little black ties. There was a speaker cable in there, too!
> I’m shocked at A) how good the green channel is, and B) how well this plays at bedroom volume. It doesn’t have that hair trigger MV that so many amps have.
> 
> The blue and red channels remind me of the crunch and lead channels on the Fryettes, with the lead (red) being more saturated and compressed. Though, both channels on the 5150 are more saturated than the Fryette. But that makes it waaaay more fun to play, lol.
> ...



Tough choice. I’ve had 50W 6L6 V2, 50W Stealth, both sold a while ago. Recently the 100W EL34 (got in July) and the Iconic right before Xmas. Sold the EL34 100 and kept the Iconic.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 18, 2022)

LCW said:


> Tough choice. I’ve had 50W 6L6 V2, 50W Stealth, both sold a while ago. Recently the 100W EL34 (got in July) and the Iconic right before Xmas. Sold the EL34 100 and kept the Iconic.



Wow, that's really something. I remember you buying the 100w EL34 because you bought yours around the same time I bought mine, and you posted some great pics of it on top of your Mesa cab and talked a bit about it.

Do you plan on keeping the Iconic? Do you think it's the best amp for you out of the EVH's you've owned?


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 18, 2022)

How saturated is the 6505+? Which ever I stick with, I want it to be different enough from my Fryette to warrant keeping.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 18, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> How saturated is the 6505+? Which ever I stick with, I want it to be different enough from my Fryette to warrant keeping.


Very very saturated, but no more than your 5153. I think you made the best choice personally.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 18, 2022)

The 6505+ still has a shit ton of gain and saturation, trust me.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 18, 2022)

IwantTacos said:


> The 5153 is the best. The iconic is a solid state amp.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 18, 2022)

Emperoff said:


>


hahaah now I cant tell if that original post was sarcastic or not, I debated putting /s in mine as I thought people would think I'm serious haha


----------



## LCW (Jan 18, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> Wow, that's really something. I remember you buying the 100w EL34 because you bought yours around the same time I bought mine, and you posted some great pics of it on top of your Mesa cab and talked a bit about it.
> 
> Do you plan on keeping the Iconic? Do you think it's the best amp for you out of the EVH's you've owned?



It’s too early to tell but so far I like it. Not getting a bad tone out of it and it pairs well with the V30 loaded Mesa OS cab. And for the price, it’s hard to beat. The 100W 5153 heads to me aren’t 2.5x better (they are 2.5x the price… Stealth now 2449 and EL34 2599).

And I don’t miss the stupid switches on the back lol.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 18, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The 6505+ still has a shit ton of gain and saturation, trust me.



Damn, that sounds godly. I watched a Tone Wars video and he said the 6505+ sounded like a classic rock amp compared to his Stealth. But to me the 6505+ isn’t all that much different. Maybe the stealth sounds better in the room? 

I will say the one thing the 5153 has going for it is the really good low volume tones. Same with the iconic.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 18, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Damn, that sounds godly. I watched a Tone Wars video and he said the 6505+ sounded like a classic rock amp compared to his Stealth. But to me the 6505+ isn’t all that much different. Maybe the stealth sounds better in the room?
> 
> I will say the one thing the 5153 has going for it is the really good low volume tones. Same with the iconic.



The TW guy thinks that every amp needs a boost, so...  Like I said, trust me on the 6505+ being a saturated amp. It doesn't have as much gain as the 5150 or 5153, but with those amps you only need to be on like 4 or 5 on the gain knob, vs the 6505+ where you need to be at 6 or 7.


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 18, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> The TW guy thinks that every amp needs a boost, so...  Like I said, trust me on the 6505+ being a saturated amp. It doesn't have as much gain as the 5150 or 5153, but with those amps you only need to be on like 4 or 5 on the gain knob, vs the 6505+ where you need to be at 6 or 7.


Yep, I never really go over about 4 on my 5153 but my 6505+'s definitely needed a bit more juice to get the squish I want.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 19, 2022)

Ok guys, next question: how much more low end thump could I expect from either a 5153 100W or the 6505+ compared to the 5153 50W? (I haven’t A/B’d the iconic and the 5153 50W, but in my mind I feel like the iconic had more low end, which makes sense.) 

And a bonus question: how close can the crunch channel of the 6505+ get to the blue channel of the 5153 50W (6L6)? I can’t find any videos of people comparing those. Everyone just compares either a mid gain crunch or the red channels.


----------



## Mike_R (Jan 19, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Ok guys, next question: how much more low end thump could I expect from either a 5153 100W or the 6505+ compared to the 5153 50W?


I can't speak to the 6505+, but I think the 50w can keep up with the 100w 5153 in terms of low end. The resonance control gives you the option to add some extra lows (the standard 100w doesn't have a resonance control). The 100w Stealth, though, can pump out more lows than the 50w but I haven't ever felt that the 50w didn't have enough so YMMV.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Jan 19, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Ok guys, next question: how much more low end thump could I expect from either a 5153 100W or the 6505+ compared to the 5153 50W? (I haven’t A/B’d the iconic and the 5153 50W, but in my mind I feel like the iconic had more low end, which makes sense.)
> 
> And a bonus question: how close can the crunch channel of the 6505+ get to the blue channel of the 5153 50W (6L6)? I can’t find any videos of people comparing those. Everyone just compares either a mid gain crunch or the red channels.


Not sure if this means anything but bands mostly 5135 100W live. While we live in time that they need space for gear and appreciate lower weight I'm suprised that hardly any of them use 50W. Sure they would use it here or there (mostly if that is venue provided backline amp) but 100W is obvious choice. Please correct me if I'm way off on this one 

My opinion is that sure 6505+ or 5153 100W would have more bottom end but that would be totally not usable in band settings. 50W has enough bottom end for band, no doubt about that. Maybe knob needs to be on 7 instead of 5 but in the end it doesnt make any difference.

Similar is with gain on 6505+ vs 5153. 6 on 6505+ and 4 on 5153. In the end they have enough gain just different range.


----------



## Muzz (Jan 19, 2022)

Just reading through some responses:


AussieTerry said:


> I wanna add more fizz, Tung Sol in V1-3 the way to go? I like a messy tone.
> 
> I bought my 6L6 head used and i think its the orig tubes and they are worn in from being played live.


In your case, this is the reason I actually have 2x 6505; after fixing one, it had a more aggressive tone compared to my first one.

Have you cranked up the presence? I have a 6505 and the presence control does a little bit from 0-8 but then for 8-10 it really ramps up. Think it has something to do with the fact they used a linear pot on res/pres controls and I believe they updated this in the later versions; which is something you would notice in a comparison where a reviewer duplicates the settings of one amp.
Or just ad an OD pedal, then rather than using it as a "clean boost" add some drive? In the case of a clean boost it cuts some low end, making the amp tighter.

+1 for bass, mid and treble controls to be all set around 6.


----------



## EdgeCrusher (Jan 19, 2022)

AussieTerry said:


> I wanna add more fizz, Tung Sol in V1-3 the way to go? I like a messy tone.
> 
> I bought my 6L6 head used and i think its the orig tubes and they are worn in from being played live.



Yes, Tung Sol tubes are a bit brighter than JJ. I actually put a JJ ECC82 (12AU7) in v1 of my OG 50 watt to lower the gain of all channels, as I feel the amp is too gainy/fizzy for my tastes. This allows me to put everything at 6 on the amp like you would an original 5150. 

I did also try out a Tung Sol 12AX7 in v1 as well, as I liked this tube in other amps. I played it like this for a while, then put the JJ ECC82 back in to bring the gain levels down to where I prefer. The Tung Sol is certainly brighter/fizzier, so if that is what you want, it should do the trick.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 20, 2022)

@Hollowway shut the fuck up and watch this video


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 20, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> @Hollowway shut the fuck up and watch this video




Okay so i went back to the comparison he did between the Iconic and the 6505II, and idk if it's the way he dialed it in, but I felt the Iconic was closer to the 6505II than the Stealth was.


----------



## mxbraud (Jan 20, 2022)

CanserDYI said:


> i have zero idea why, but I always associate the EL34 5150's with the caffeine free Coke cans/bottles. Which I dont drink a lot of pop, but I always saw my grandma with those and knew they had all the balls cut out of them, and thats legit how I associate the EL34 5150, for some god awful reason, and I've never even played one lmao.


My Main Rig is a 5150III EL34 and Its an Animal!
Ive been playing over 30 years and Have had MANY amps and I LOVE this thing with GreenBacks!
Throw a MXR EQ (10 band "BLUE") in the loop and Watch the F**K Out!


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 20, 2022)

mxbraud said:


> My Main Rig is a 5150III EL34 and Its an Animal!
> Ive been playing over 30 years and Have had MANY amps and I LOVE this thing with GreenBacks!
> Throw a MXR EQ (10 band "BLUE") in the loop and Watch the F**K Out!


Oh don't get me wrong, I'm sure that amp is amazing. But for some reason the colors make me associate it with coke no caffeine lol  completely irrational I know lol


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 20, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> @Hollowway shut the fuck up and watch this video



 that’s awesome. I feel like Kyle is living in my brain, just cranking out the videos I want to see. But now I just want a stealth, lol. 

My main goal is to get something different from the dry Fryette sound, and something I can use at bedroom volume. The 6505s sound really good, but I almost feel like the sound like the green and red channels on the 50CL I have. They sound more grainy than the EVHs. I just can’t tell how the saturation sounds because it’s hard to compare an amp I. The room with one on YouTube. The girl at GC CS said I can play the Iconic, even though it’s damaged, and have 45 days to return it. So I’m going to play the iconic and the 5153 and see the difference for myself, and then decide if I want the 6505+ as well, or just one of them, or bail and get a Helix Stomp. I’m all over the place.  Believe it or not this whole thing started with me wanting a practice rig.


----------



## Mike_R (Jan 21, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> that’s awesome. I feel like Kyle is living in my brain, just cranking out the videos I want to see. But now I just want a stealth, lol.
> 
> My main goal is to get something different from the dry Fryette sound, and something I can use at bedroom volume. The 6505s sound really good, but I almost feel like the sound like the green and red channels on the 50CL I have. They sound more grainy than the EVHs. I just can’t tell how the saturation sounds because it’s hard to compare an amp I. The room with one on YouTube. The girl at GC CS said I can play the Iconic, even though it’s damaged, and have 45 days to return it. So I’m going to play the iconic and the 5153 and see the difference for myself, and then decide if I want the 6505+ as well, or just one of them, or bail and get a Helix Stomp. I’m all over the place.  Believe it or not this whole thing started with me wanting a practice rig.



As far as I am concerned the Stealth is a great practice rig. I have the 100w (my 50w is the regular 6l6 version) but I have no doubt the 50w Stealth would be awesome.
My Peavey is a lot more touchy on the volume and while it works at low volume, I feel like the 5153s do it a bit better. I still play with VSTs sometimes (and am not running any hardware modeling anymore), but for me just being able to flip on the amp and start playing an excellent sounding, satisfying amp at a reasonable volume is huge.


----------



## Flick (Jan 21, 2022)

I’m stuck on a decision between a Revv Generator MKIII or EVH Stealth 100. I have a two notes captor x and a zuul so the direct and noise gate features won’t play into the decision. It’s down to tone. I could get away with a one channel amp, honestly. Tight, percussive death metal(decapitated style). Can anyone chime in here from experience?


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Jan 21, 2022)

Flick said:


> I’m stuck on a decision between a Revv Generator MKIII or EVH Stealth 100. I have a two notes captor x and a zuul so the direct and noise gate features won’t play into the decision. It’s down to tone. I could get away with a one channel amp, honestly. Tight, percussive death metal(decapitated style). Can anyone chime in here from experience?



Vogg uses EVH amps. That's it right there. 
REVV mark III is too much if you already have a Captor.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 22, 2022)

Damn, I just watched a couple Invective MH demos. I was shocked how good it sounded. I’m surprised I haven’t heard more chatter about them yet.


----------



## gunch (Jan 22, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Damn, I just watched a couple Invective MH demos. I was shocked how good it sounded. I’m surprised I haven’t heard more chatter about them yet.



Invectives don't have a good rep, some deserved some not, but mostly because Uuugghhghg Misha Mansoor bad *whiney baby poop noises* also anti modern peavey sentiment


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 22, 2022)

gunch said:


> Invectives don't have a good rep, some deserved some not, but mostly because Uuugghhghg Misha Mansoor bad *whiney baby poop noises* also anti modern peavey sentiment


Yeah, I get that. I don’t much like Peavey the company right now, myself. What I DID like about the Invective tone was how clanky it got with down tuned guitars and the boost and tight buttons engaged. I know that djenty tone isn’t popular, but I love the low gain, prominent mids, tight sound for low tuning. And it appears it’s all kind of built in to that. It’s damned expensive, though. I still wonder if I should just go the modeler route.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Jan 22, 2022)

Flick said:


> I’m stuck on a decision between a Revv Generator MKIII or EVH Stealth 100. I have a two notes captor x and a zuul so the direct and noise gate features won’t play into the decision. It’s down to tone. I could get away with a one channel amp, honestly. Tight, percussive death metal(decapitated style). Can anyone chime in here from experience?


Honestly both are great for that type of sound. I have a Revv MKii 100p and it gets very tight and percussive depending on how I dial it in. It rivals my VHT 100cl and Mesa Mk3 in that aspect. The 50w stealth (haven't tried the 100) can also get quite tight/percussive but the lower gain tones are meh (not that it matters for dm  ). I guess it's more down to a matter of budget and how badly you want/need the feature sets. For your stated purposes a 5153 (any iteration ) would be more than enough.


----------



## KailM (Jan 22, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Ok guys, next question: how much more low end thump could I expect from either a 5153 100W or the 6505+ compared to the 5153 50W? (I haven’t A/B’d the iconic and the 5153 50W, but in my mind I feel like the iconic had more low end, which makes sense.)
> 
> And a bonus question: how close can the crunch channel of the 6505+ get to the blue channel of the 5153 50W (6L6)? I can’t find any videos of people comparing those. Everyone just compares either a mid gain crunch or the red channels.



EVH 50 Watters have *plenty* of low end for any situation. That said, my 6505 has more, but it doesn’t really get apparent until I’m playing stupidly loud. 6505+, on the other hand, doesn’t have quite as much low end as the OG 6505/5150, so might be on par with an EVH. Any of them can level a venue, just in different ways.

Regarding 6505+ green w/ crunch vs EVH blue — I actually prefer the 6505+ over the EVH. Both are a boosted, hotrodded Marshall type tone, but I found the 6505+ even better for that classic thrash tone. I don’t spend much time with my EVH blue, but now that I have a Rat to boost it, I’m liking it a little better. I don’t really like the EVH amps with OD boosts. The filtering built-in already removes plenty of bass in the initial stages.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 22, 2022)

I have a question about EVH 5150 III's. What's the technical difference between the "Effects Send" vs the "Preamp Out" jacks?

I've run signals from both into a tube poweramp, and they sound different. What's different about them?


----------



## Shask (Jan 22, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> I have a question about EVH 5150 III's. What's the technical difference between the "Effects Send" vs the "Preamp Out" jacks?
> 
> I've run signals from both into a tube poweramp, and they sound different. What's different about them?


What I learned through trial and error, and then confirming with the schematic, is that the preamp out comes after the effects return. It will include anything that you have in the loop, where the effects send will not.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 22, 2022)

Shask said:


> What I learned through trial and error, and then confirming with the schematic, is that the preamp out comes after the effects return. It will include anything that you have in the loop, where the effects send will not.



Huh that seems weird. Given I ASSUME he runs the preamp out into the wet sides of his W/D/W rig, one would assume you'd want the preamp out isolated.


----------



## Shask (Jan 22, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> Huh that seems weird. Given I ASSUME he runs the preamp out into the wet sides of his W/D/W rig, one would assume you'd want the preamp out isolated.


Yeah, thats how I figured it out. I was messing with a parallel routing type thing, and thought I could run the effects send into a rack unit, and then another line from the preamp out, and plug them both into another stereo effects unit, and then sum them back to the effects return to get a psudo-parallel routing, but it didn't work because the preamp out contained the effects from what I had in the loop.

Let me say this is on my 50W. I am not sure if the 100W is different.


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 22, 2022)

Shask said:


> What I learned through trial and error, and then confirming with the schematic, is that the preamp out comes after the effects return. It will include anything that you have in the loop, where the effects send will not.



It can't be just that, though, can it?

Even with nothing in the loop, using one vs the other into another poweramp sounds quite different.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 22, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> It can't be just that, though, can it?
> 
> Even with nothing in the loop, using one vs the other into another poweramp sounds quite different.



Probably something EQ-wise for Eddie's purposes.


----------



## Shask (Jan 22, 2022)

GreatGreen said:


> It can't be just that, though, can it?
> 
> Even with nothing in the loop, using one vs the other into another poweramp sounds quite different.


That is pretty much it if you follow the schematic. If the main difference is more/less highs, it could be an impedance difference and how it is interacting with what you are plugging it into.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 23, 2022)

Any of you guys using a Tight Metal Pro (II or ortherwise)? Now that I'm all into these James Brown designs, I've been looking at that, and it seems like a pretty cool option to pair up with a little pedal power amp for practice. Given that James design this AND the 5150/5152/Iconic, I'm curious what you guys think of the sound, comparatively speaking. I sense that maybe the power amp needs to be pretty nice to get it to sound good.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jan 23, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I sense that maybe the power amp needs to be pretty nice to get it to sound good.


This applies to basically anything, though. 

That being said, you’d be hard pressed to find a better power amp than a 5150 variant.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 23, 2022)

youngthrasher9 said:


> This applies to basically anything, though.
> 
> That being said, you’d be hard pressed to find a better power amp than a 5150 variant.


I would think that, but then I see everyone saying that a simple pedal power amp works well for metal, because the distortion is all from the preamp. But, at the same time, I know that the power amp is going to in some way affect the speakers. I just don't know if it's significant at all. This is another one of those things that the more I search for answers the less sure I am about any of it.


----------



## ATRguitar91 (Jan 23, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Any of you guys using a Tight Metal Pro (II or ortherwise)? Now that I'm all into these James Brown designs, I've been looking at that, and it seems like a pretty cool option to pair up with a little pedal power amp for practice. Given that James design this AND the 5150/5152/Iconic, I'm curious what you guys think of the sound, comparatively speaking. I sense that maybe the power amp needs to be pretty nice to get it to sound good.


It's great! I've run my TMP into the 6505 poweramp and it's essentially indistinguishable. I find the TMP sounds great into whatever I run it into. Out of all my preamp pedals, it sounds the most organic and amp like. I can't recommend it enough really.

One thing that makes a huge difference is the resonance/presence controls. The new Tight Metals have this one built in, I had to get mine modded. This helps especially when running it into IRs or a solid state power amp.

I think it sounds great into a little class D power amp, but it's definitely not as full of a tone as running into a tube amp.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jan 23, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I would think that, but then I see everyone saying that a simple pedal power amp works well for metal, because the distortion is all from the preamp. But, at the same time, I know that the power amp is going to in some way affect the speakers. I just don't know if it's significant at all. This is another one of those things that the more I search for answers the less sure I am about any of it.


It’s not really about poweramp distortion, quite the contrary actually. Headroom matters if you’re pushing decent volume. Also, some power amps can basically bottleneck your signal. If they don’t have enough natural low end or high end, they can make your sound tinny or dark. Resonance and presence are also great to have as ATR mentioned, for this very reason.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 23, 2022)

If someone made a power amp based on the 5150 power amp (especially someone that works with lightweight PAs like Matrix), then yeah that's game over.


----------



## youngthrasher9 (Jan 23, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If someone made a power amp based on the 5150 power amp (especially someone that works with lightweight PAs like Matrix), then yeah that's game over.


I swear SSO could petition this. You and I and many others have this conversation at least once every 6 months.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE (Jan 23, 2022)

Does the "preamp out" still send signal if the amp is on standby?


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 23, 2022)

ATRguitar91 said:


> I think it sounds great into a little class D power amp, but it's definitely not as full of a tone as running into a tube amp.


Yeah, if I'm going to use a tube head, I'll probably not get the pedal, as it doesn't make much of a practice rig for me. The little class D amp-in-a-pedal power amp would be the way I'd use it. TMP into baby bomb 30, for instance. BUT, it's another one of those things that I just don't know how it will sound without testing it. And I want my practice set up to be quiet AND sound great, so I'm inspired to play. Sounds like I'll probably still go for a full amp head, and just keep the volume low.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 23, 2022)

Well, in a moment of weakness, I just picked up a minty Invective MH on reverb for $680 shipped. I shoulda bought one a month ago when they were $699 new, but c'est la vie. Now I have to decide what else to buy/keep, since you guys have me all over the 5150/6505 tones, lol. The Invective will be my djent box, but I still kind of want another thick, saturated amp to mess with.


----------



## USMarine75 (Jan 23, 2022)

HeHasTheJazzHands said:


> If someone made a power amp based on the 5150 power amp (especially someone that works with lightweight PAs like Matrix), then yeah that's game over.



They do. It’s called the Invective. I hear it was invented to power your Axe FX.


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Jan 23, 2022)

USMarine75 said:


> They do. It’s called the Invective. I hear it was invented to power your Axe FX.


Goddammit


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 23, 2022)

USMarine75 said:


> They do. It’s called the Invective. I hear it was invented to power your Axe FX.


Old school positive rep for you!


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 24, 2022)

This seems like a good question for @amptweaker 

JB, how’s the the preamp output on these amps different from the FX Send? What’s the idea behind having it on the amp?


----------



## profwoot (Jan 24, 2022)

Is industry ramping up to cater to the modeler-using folk who wish their power amp could be just the power section of x tube amp? I'm neither of those things so far, but I get it. I presume the established companies would just require that you buy the whole amp even if you only need the less interesting half, but presumably any shop could copy just the power circuit and sell it for half the price of the real amp, eh? Seems like there could be a market, if there isn't already. I don't know anything tho.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 24, 2022)

profwoot said:


> Is industry ramping up to cater to the modeler-using folk who wish their power amp could be just the power section of x tube amp? I'm neither of those things so far, but I get it. I presume the established companies would just require that you buy the whole amp even if you only need the less interesting half, but presumably any shop could copy just the power circuit and sell it for half the price of the real amp, eh? Seems like there could be a market, if there isn't already. I don't know anything tho.


Yeah, 10 years ago everyone and their sister were using standalone tube power amps like the Fryette 2/50/2, 2/90/2, the Mesa 2:90, etc. I'm not sure if it's just us in this echo chamber on here, or if they're not as popular now, but I don't hear mention of them nearly as much as in the past.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 25, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, 10 years ago everyone and their sister were using standalone tube power amps like the Fryette 2/50/2, 2/90/2, the Mesa 2:90, etc. I'm not sure if it's just us in this echo chamber on here, or if they're not as popular now, but I don't hear mention of them nearly as much as in the past.



This. I've seen Mesa 2:90s selling for like 500€ lately. Rack gear doesn't have much demand these days.

In fact, amps in general don't have much demand these days. They do in the US since houses tend to be bigger and lot of people have heads and cabs at home with attenuators and stuff. In other places where people live mostly in apartments, the classifieds are filled with heads and cabs selling dirt cheap. My soundguy is always complaining about amps and wants us to go direct too, as do most bands he works with nowadays.

What is massively growing in popularity are pedals. People need to feed the buying urge somehow, and the boutique pedal industry is living a golden age. Pedalboard based rigs have never been better.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 25, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> This. I've seen Mesa 2:90s selling for like 500€ lately. Rack gear doesn't have much demand these days.
> 
> In fact, amps in general don't have much demand these days. They do in the US since houses tend to be bigger and lot of people have heads and cabs at home with attenuators and stuff. In other places where people live mostly in apartments, the classifieds are filled with heads and cabs selling dirt cheap. My soundguy is always complaining about amps and wants us to go direct too, as do most bands he works with nowadays.
> 
> What is massively growing in popularity are pedals. People need to feed the buying urge somehow, and the boutique pedal industry is living a golden age. Pedalboard based rigs have never been better.



I would totally do a modeler, or something else direct. But, I play guitar 100% for fun (and, quite frankly, to prevent me from killing people and myself, lol. Humans, amirite?) and I just like to plug into an amp and play. IMO, most decent amps are super easy to dial in a great tone (not you, Mesa Mark IV!), and you can get right to strumming that chord and holding your pick hand straight up into the air like a rock star. Plugging into a computer is cool, great for recording, and perfect for late night practice. But I rarely get a dopamine dump hunched over my guitar, sitting in a chair in front of my computer.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 25, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> I would totally do a modeler, or something else direct. But, I play guitar 100% for fun (and, quite frankly, to prevent me from killing people and myself, lol. Humans, amirite?) and I just like to plug into an amp and play. IMO, most decent amps are super easy to dial in a great tone (not you, Mesa Mark IV!), and you can get right to strumming that chord and holding your pick hand straight up into the air like a rock star. Plugging into a computer is cool, great for recording, and perfect for late night practice. But I rarely get a dopamine dump hunched over my guitar, sitting in a chair in front of my computer.



Everything has its place. *To me*, pure practice on a loud amplifier is pointless. Playing at home with a 412 at conversation levels is also pointless (and hardly a dopamine burst). Spending 2-4k on a head/amp home setup when I can get similar results with plugins at 200€, also pointless.

I leave the big boys to rehearsal and gigging, where I can actually crank them and enjoy them. That's why I mentioned full sized amps are way more popular in the US. People there usually have more space at home for them.


----------



## MASS DEFECT (Jan 25, 2022)

I get what Hollowway is saying. I do get that dopamine happiness when playing and LOOKING at a nice amp head and a matching nice cab. No matter what volume. Amps are just so pretty and the aesthetic does inspire some creativity. Plugging straight and just riffing away without the option paralysis with modelers or computers is just a better feeling.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 25, 2022)

MASS DEFECT said:


> I get what Hollowway is saying. I do get that dopamine happiness when playing and LOOKING at a nice amp head and a matching nice cab. No matter what volume. Amps are just so pretty and the aesthetic does inspire some creativity. Plugging straight and just riffing away without the option paralysis with modelers or computers is just a better feeling.



It takes literally 30 seconds to boot my computer and open a Reaper session with my (3) saved presets. Way less than tubes need to warm up. 

I of course considered building o home rack rig for my Triaxis, adding a multi-fx unit, etc. It turned out NDSP Plini did all I wanted for 3k less.

Would I want that live? Nope. That's my excuse for cranking up the big boys and no modellers are allowed (although I use them for FX)!


----------



## CanserDYI (Jan 25, 2022)

I just flick on my helix and plug in and i'm ready to go, if anything busting out my 6505's gets tedious, and just sold my 5150 lbx out of the fact that I'm mainly just using a modeler through it anyways, and if i'm only jamming for 15-20 minutes at a time anyways, my helix and studio monitors do the trick for noodling and practicing just fine.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 25, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> Everything has its place. *To me*, pure practice on a loud amplifier is pointless. Playing at home with a 412 at conversation levels is also pointless (and hardly a dopamine burst). Spending 2-4k on a head/amp home setup when I can get similar results with plugins at 200€, also pointless.
> 
> I leave the big boys to rehearsal and gigging, where I can actually crank them and enjoy them. That's why I mentioned full sized amps are way more popular in the US. People there usually have more space at home for them.


Yeah, I do both headphone practicing and through a 412. I have space for it, and can crank it if I want, so that’s a different scenario from when I was in an apartment. For me it’s just more fun. Obviously the MOST fun is playing with a live band, and in front of people. But, short of that, I like to get the headphones off. 

And @Emperoff what are you using to practice through, in terms of sims and IRs? I’d love to get something new there, but there are a bajillion to choose from. If you’ve got one that sounds awesome, let me know, cuz I want it!


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 25, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> Yeah, I do both headphone practicing and through a 412. I have space for it, and can crank it if I want, so that’s a different scenario from when I was in an apartment. For me it’s just more fun. Obviously the MOST fun is playing with a live band, and in front of people. But, short of that, I like to get the headphones off.
> 
> And @Emperoff what are you using to practice through, in terms of sims and IRs? I’d love to get something new there, but there are a bajillion to choose from. If you’ve got one that sounds awesome, let me know, cuz I want it!



I might disappoint you, but I pretty much only use NDSP Plini for everything, and I have like three presets saved.  I play with guitar controls a lot, though.

I also don't use impulses. I tweak the cabs they come with. Sound good enough for me and if I want to tweak something I just move or change the mics, etc. I got lost into the Ownhammer wormhole once, and I play a lot more this way.

The less you worry about gear and tone, the better you will sound, because what really improves your tone is actually playing.


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 25, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> I might disappoint you, but I pretty much only use NDSP Plini for everything, and I have like three presets saved.  I play with guitar controls a lot, though.
> 
> I also don't use impulses. I tweak the cabs they come with. Sound good enough for me and if I want to tweak something I just move or change the mics, etc. I got lost into the Ownhammer wormhole once, and I play a lot more this way.
> 
> The less you worry about gear and tone, the better you will sound, because what really improves your tone is actually playing.


So true. It’s literally why I still play patch 4D on my old POD 2.0. It works, and I can get right to crackalackin’ with practice. I DO like to use a real amp for fun, so it’s why I like a “set it and forget it” tone on those, too.


----------



## DEUCE SLUICE (Jan 25, 2022)

Emperoff said:


> The less you worry about gear and tone, the better you will sound, because what really improves your tone is actually playing.



how dare you


----------



## Mike_R (Jan 26, 2022)

100w 5150 and Mesa 4x12


Emperoff said:


> Everything has its place. *To me*, pure practice on a loud amplifier is pointless. Playing at home with a 412 at conversation levels is also pointless (and hardly a dopamine burst). Spending 2-4k on a head/amp home setup when I can get similar results with plugins at 200€, also pointless.
> 
> I leave the big boys to rehearsal and gigging, where I can actually crank them and enjoy them. That's why I mentioned full sized amps are way more popular in the US. People there usually have more space at home for them.



*To me*, a 100w tube amp and 4x12 in the room (even at modest volumes) is incomparable to plugins. Plugins can make a great emulation of a recorded tone, but its basically always a mic'ed up tone which is different from the in the room tone. I haven't found a plugin that is as satisfying as playing an amp in the room. And they don't take up a huge footprint, you just stack those bad boys up to the ceiling.


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 26, 2022)

Mike_R said:


> 100w 5150 and Mesa 4x12
> 
> 
> *To me*, a 100w tube amp and 4x12 in the room (even at modest volumes) is incomparable to plugins. Plugins can make a great emulation of a recorded tone, but its basically always a mic'ed up tone which is different from the in the room tone. I haven't found a plugin that is as satisfying as playing an amp in the room. And they don't take up a huge footprint, you just stack those bad boys up to the ceiling.



I'm aware of the differences of a plugin vs. a real amp. If that difference is worth the money for bedroom playing to you, more power (and less money) to you. To me it's not. I live in an apartment and I don't like to take unnecessary space when modellers work just fine for me. I've had amps at home before, and they all went out eventually.

In fact, first thing I said is that full amp setups at home are very popular in the US, and people quoting me are, well, from the US. So what else do you expect me to say?


----------



## Hollowway (Jan 26, 2022)

Mike_R said:


> 100w 5150 and Mesa 4x12
> 
> 
> *To me*, a 100w tube amp and 4x12 in the room (even at modest volumes) is incomparable to plugins. Plugins can make a great emulation of a recorded tone, but its basically always a mic'ed up tone which is different from the in the room tone. I haven't found a plugin that is as satisfying as playing an amp in the room. And they don't take up a huge footprint, you just stack those bad boys up to the ceiling.


That reminds me of a question I had the other day watching you tube videos: why does the “in room” mic not sound like when you’re actually in the room with an amp? I was watching Ola’s videos, and he’ll flip flop between a cone mic and a room mic. And the in room mic doesn’t sound anything like actually being in the room with an amp. I’m wondering if there’s a way to mic an amp so it sounds as if you are there with it. (Totally off topic, but….)


----------



## ATRguitar91 (Jan 26, 2022)

Mike_R said:


> *To me*, a 100w tube amp and 4x12 in the room (even at modest volumes) is incomparable to plugins.


This is an endless debate obviously, but in my humble opinion the cab is the bigger part of the puzzle here. A plugin or modeler into a poweramp and 412 cab gets you almost of the mojo you would want from big iron and a cab. The cab is what really makes the amp in the room feel, not the head necessarily.


----------



## technomancer (Jan 26, 2022)

I "waste" 100w amps and 4x12 cabs on a daily basis at volumes ranging from "the wife is napping downstairs" to "hope the neighbors don't call the cops". I've also used plugins and Fractal and Kemper gear and pedal rigs.

Play what makes you happy / makes sense for your life situation and shut the fuck up about how superior you are one way or the other based on what you prefer / decided to use 

Listening to guys prattle about how what they picked to play is the smart choice and anybody that doesn't do the same is an idiot gets exhausting


----------



## karjim (Jan 26, 2022)

Why not doing both ? my setup is a torpedo reload spliting the signal: one through my 5150iii + mesa cab attenuated, and my soundcard , plus a DI direct to the soundcard with Neural VST. Triple flavor, no latency, real cab, DI, and unprocessed amp signal to post tweak IRs .


----------



## GreatGreen (Jan 26, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> That reminds me of a question I had the other day watching you tube videos: why does the “in room” mic not sound like when you’re actually in the room with an amp? I was watching Ola’s videos, and he’ll flip flop between a cone mic and a room mic. And the in room mic doesn’t sound anything like actually being in the room with an amp. I’m wondering if there’s a way to mic an amp so it sounds as if you are there with it. (Totally off topic, but….)



I don't think there is a way to match close mic'ing and in the room listening, even when you're trying to use mics to mimic listening in the room.

A mic, no matter where it is, is always going to listen from a single point in space, using whatever listening pattern was designed for it. When you're in the room, you're essentially using two very specialized "mics" (your ears) in stereo with their own unique listening patters, and they're mounted on a stand that is constantly moving around (your head) to listen to a combination of the guitar speakers themselves mixed in with all the reflections of those speakers coming off all the surfaces in the room also, which can be basically as loud as the speakers themselves. And due to the directionality of guitar cabs, any little head movement you make will change the overall sound considerably.

I think they're fundamentally different experiences. Even self-proclaimed "in the room" micing techniques don't really capture being in the room itself.


----------



## Mike_R (Jan 26, 2022)

technomancer said:


> Listening to guys prattle about how what they picked to play is the smart choice and anybody that doesn't do the same is an idiot gets exhausting



To be fair, you clicked on a thread titled "*Why the 5150 III 50w Heads are the Best Amps Ever Made*", read it, and posted in it even though you are exhausted by guys prattling on about how what they picked to play is the smart choice. 

I think modelers, plugins, and amps all have a place. I use plugins for near silent practice or recording a quick idea. I do maintain that playing through a plugin with monitors or headphones and playing through an amp are different experiences but I don't think either are pointless. I will say a recording PC, low latency interface, and plugins cost me more than what I paid for a 5153 50w and matching 2x12 cab (and the 5153 50w has a headphone out for near-silent practice). Either way, there is a lot of great gear out there and many ways to enjoy playing guitar. I happen to prefer the experience of playing a real amp in the room unless I have a specific reason to use something else. I did like plugins better until I got an amp/cab that I loved.

Oh and @Deadpool_25, the 100w Stealth is better than the 50w.* There, I am fulfilling one of the internet's true purposes by disagreeing with people I have never met.

*I got the 50w first, then an OG 100w 5150 and the 100w Stealth. Then I got a good cab. I think if I had the 50w and the cab I have now, I probably would have been satisfied with it and not bought more 5150s for quite some time. The 50w is a super compelling package in terms of portability, output, tone, and price. I just like the 100w Stealth a little bit more.


----------



## technomancer (Jan 26, 2022)

Mike_R said:


> To be fair, you clicked on a thread titled "*Why the 5150 III 50w Heads are the Best Amps Ever Made*", read it, and posted in it even though you are exhausted by guys prattling on about how what they picked to play is the smart choice.
> 
> I think modelers, plugins, and amps all have a place. I use plugins for near silent practice or recording a quick idea. I do maintain that playing through a plugin with monitors or headphones and playing through an amp are different experiences but I don't think either are pointless. I will say a recording PC, low latency interface, and plugins cost me more than what I paid for a 5153 50w and matching 2x12 cab (and the 5153 50w has a headphone out for near-silent practice). Either way, there is a lot of great gear out there and many ways to enjoy playing guitar. I happen to prefer the experience of playing a real amp in the room unless I have a specific reason to use something else. I did like plugins better until I got an amp/cab that I loved.
> 
> ...



Touche


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Jan 26, 2022)

There’s a difference between how people read:

“To me XXX is pointless.”

And

“XXX isn’t what I want/like.”

If you don’t want to use an amp, don’t. If you do, go for it. One may be better for your particular desires/situation and that’s fine.

@Mike_R
You’re wrong. Lol j/k. I posted the thread kinda tongue in cheek and just having some fun.

At the time I’d never played the 100w version. I’ve also never played a vintage Marshall Plexi. Or a Dumble. Or a Hiwatt. Or a (insert another cool amp here). I actually expected the thread to be mostly folks saying, “nope, it’s this amp.” “Nope it’s that amp.” Haha.

Do I actually think it’s the best amp ever made? It’s a trick question. I don’t think it’s answerable. It depends on the person and the situation. Hell, I don’t even know if they’re the best for me. I can say they’re definitely the best _for me and out of the amps I’ve tried_. That’s really about as specific as I can really be—likely as specific as anyone can be tbh, but that’s not for me to say.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Jan 26, 2022)

Hollowway said:


> And @Emperoff what are you using to practice through, in terms of sims and IRs? I’d love to get something new there, but there are a bajillion to choose from. If you’ve got one that sounds awesome, let me know, cuz I want it!



the audio assault AHM5050 I got for like 8 bucks a few weeks ago and it sounds pretty much exactly like a recorded 5153 with all the channels and it's cheap as hell, I think their VHT UL sounds pretty good but you gotta really EQ out the low mids so it gets tight and aggressive, very fun tho


----------



## USMarine75 (Jan 27, 2022)

technomancer said:


> “Listening to guys prattle about how what they picked to play is the smart choice and anybody that doesn't do the same is an idiot.”



*fixed! 

Sorry but you had misquoted the TGP mission statement.


----------



## sleewell (Jan 27, 2022)

Holy cow you guys!!! First show with my Kruse 5153 last night was soooooooooooooooo much fun. This amp freaking slays. I didn't even realize the mods included a knob on the back to drop down wattage, that's really cool. The LEDs are a cool touch. Easy to carry too, very light and small. 

I had a 5153 before but the version without concentric knobs so the volume jump was an issue. I love having 3 useable channels!

I just put my eqd afterneath in the loop on top on my amp with my shure wireless as my tuner. Only had the channel switcher on the stage which was a nice small footprint. Literally felt like the perfect rig for our set.

Very excited to keep playing this amp!!


----------



## Emperoff (Jan 27, 2022)

Deadpool_25 said:


> There’s a difference between how people read:
> 
> “To me XXX is pointless.”
> 
> ...



Perhaps "*for me*" is a better expression? English is not my native language, you know 

But if you read the rest of the posts, they explain what works for me and what doesn't. Honestly if somebody takes them as "My shit is the best, yours sucks" they're probably only reading the first sentence of every post 

My studio is shared with my fiancee who would probably not enjoy having it filled with amps and cabs when the computer gets the job more than done. That doesn't mean everybody has to do the same nor I am shitting on people who have amps at home (honestly, I don't give a damn). I just said home amp setups are very popular in the US, but not here (which only takes a few minutes into local classifieds to notice).


----------



## profwoot (Sep 29, 2022)

Bought an ivory 6L6 last week and can confirm the premise of this thread. I've barely touched the red channel so far as I'm so enamoured with the blue and green (especially the former).


----------



## Nicki (Sep 30, 2022)

I still love my EL34 50w. It just doesn't get the same usage as it has before. Not entirely sure it's even suitable for the genre I'm playing now, but it's an amp I'll never part with. With a Savage Drive kicking the shit outta the front end, it just sounds like monster.

Also, you know how inflation kicked in real hard? When I bought my 5150III back in 2019 it cost about $1600 CAD new. Now, seems to be the going rate of a used one (why are they staying so high?) and a new one is $1849 CAD.


----------



## Nicki (Sep 30, 2022)

profwoot said:


> Bought an ivory 6L6 last week and can confirm the premise of this thread. I've barely touched the red channel so far as I'm so enamoured with the blue and green (especially the former).


Blue Channel + Airis Savage drive/Tube Screamer is beastly.


----------



## Shask (Sep 30, 2022)

Nicki said:


> I still love my EL34 50w. It just doesn't get the same usage as it has before. Not entirely sure it's even suitable for the genre I'm playing now, but it's an amp I'll never part with. With a Savage Drive kicking the shit outta the front end, it just sounds like monster.
> 
> Also, you know how inflation kicked in real hard? When I bought my 5150III back in 2019 it cost about $1600 CAD new. Now, seems to be the going rate of a used one (why are they staying so high?) and a new one is $1849 CAD.


I got my 5153 50w 6L6 right before Covid for $750 new.... now they are $1350. Crazy.


I actually opened mine up this week because I was getting some signal cutting out. I cleaned out the jacks and pots and such. I also checked the bias. I would definitely recommend people to check their bias. Even a small change on mine made the amp go from bright and scratchy to fat and boomy. They reccomend setting it at 60mv. Mine was 48mv stock. Making changes between 53mv and 60mv was huge. I settled at 57mv because I like my amps slightly cold. Its crazy how much it changed between 55mv and 60mv.


----------



## gunch (Sep 30, 2022)

Anyone with experience with the Mooer 5153 model can it do the boosted blue channel thing or is it modeling the green and red channels only?


----------



## technomancer (Sep 30, 2022)

Shask said:


> I got my 5153 50w 6L6 right before Covid for $750 new.... now they are $1350. Crazy.
> 
> 
> I actually opened mine up this week because I was getting some signal cutting out. I cleaned out the jacks and pots and such. I also checked the bias. I would definitely recommend people to check their bias. Even a small change on mine made the amp go from bright and scratchy to fat and boomy. They reccomend setting it at 60mv. Mine was 48mv stock. Making changes between 53mv and 60mv was huge. I settled at 57mv because I like my amps slightly cold. Its crazy how much it changed between 55mv and 60mv.



Even better would be measuring your plate voltage and doing the math to see where it should be for the tubes in it...


----------



## Shask (Sep 30, 2022)

technomancer said:


> Even better would be measuring your plate voltage and doing the math to see where it should be for the tubes in it...



Yeah, it would be... but, I didnt feel like it, lol. If they put a test resistor and a note on the factory schematic, I figure it should be close enough. Especially if you go by ear and not numbers.


----------



## Shask (Oct 1, 2022)

gunch said:


> Anyone with experience with the Mooer 5153 model can it do the boosted blue channel thing or is it modeling the green and red channels only?


I was curious, so I got out my 005. I haven't got it out in a year or 2. I would say it is kind of in between the blue and red channels of the 5153 50w, but closer to the blue channel. It is kinda like the blue channel with more gain. It is not as saturated as the red.

The lower gain channel on the 005 is basically a clean channel that kind get kinda gritty when the gain is cranked.


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 1, 2022)

gunch said:


> Anyone with experience with the Mooer 5153 model can it do the boosted blue channel thing or is it modeling the green and red channels only?


green and red channels basically . I'd avoid it personally, the mooer stuff isn't that good tbh. if you want 5150 vibes grab an amptweaker.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Oct 1, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> green and red channels basically . I'd avoid it personally, the mooer stuff isn't that good tbh. if you want 5150 vibes grab an amptweaker.


Idk. I think it's pretty good. 

I haven't fired it up lately but it sure sounded good when I tested it. And I got it for $100 on Amazon lol. 

You know I'm not all that budget conscious but for those who are and who want a good preamp I think it's a pretty good choice.


----------



## gunch (Oct 2, 2022)

KnightBrolaire said:


> green and red channels basically . I'd avoid it personally, the mooer stuff isn't that good tbh. if you want 5150 vibes grab an amptweaker.


Honesty I could get a good 5153 vst like the fluff one and probably be fine


----------



## KnightBrolaire (Oct 2, 2022)

gunch said:


> Honesty I could get a good 5153 vst like the fluff one and probably be fine


the fluff one is decent. the audio assault one is also pretty decent


----------



## HeHasTheJazzHands (Oct 2, 2022)

The Audio Assault 5050 is fucking spiffy, especially right now since it's only $15.


----------



## TheBolivianSniper (Oct 2, 2022)

gunch said:


> Honesty I could get a good 5153 vst like the fluff one and probably be fine



another +1 for the audio assault, it's so cheap and you get a shit ton of options

it's really quiet but otherwise sounds virtually identical to a 5153 and the built in features are great, my only other complaint is that the EL34 modeling isn't quite as good as the 6L6 but maybe that's just bc I love the 6L6 sound


----------



## Dumple Stilzkin (Oct 2, 2022)

So a guy locally wanted my LTD Arrow 1000, he had the black head version plus the 2x12 (cream back and Eminence DV77). He also had a Ibanez 40th anniversary tube screamer. Got all three for the LTD. I must say I’m pleased with the trade, though I never really intended to own 2 of the same amp. That’s just the way she goes.


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Oct 2, 2022)




----------



## profwoot (Oct 12, 2022)

Still loving the amp, but can anyone explain why the lead channel and presence knobs still have the "1/2" beneath them?





Perhaps I'm interpreting the meaning wrong, but if it doesn't refer to channel one and channel two, what is it referring to?


----------



## drb (Oct 12, 2022)

profwoot said:


> Still loving the amp, but can anyone explain why the lead channel and presence knobs still have the "1/2" beneath them?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's a fraction, implying the top of the dial "noon" is half way between being entire off and fully turned up.

Unless I've misinterpreted your question?


----------



## profwoot (Oct 12, 2022)

drb said:


> It's a fraction, implying the top of the dial "noon" is half way between being entire off and fully turned up.
> 
> Unless I've misinterpreted your question?


Ah no that makes sense. Seems a little weird to me, as where else would half-way be besides half-way, and why is it in larger font than "off" and "up", but at least I understand what it's saying now.


----------



## FitRocker33 (Oct 12, 2022)

people are getting so stupid nowadays im surprised some people know their left from their right, so it makes some sense


----------



## Seabeast2000 (Oct 12, 2022)

I never noticed the "1/2" but there they are on both of mine. Been doing it wrong this whole time.


----------



## sonofabias (Oct 13, 2022)

Incoming Blacked out Engl E 642II Invader Probably tomorrow or Saturday morning delivery. It should be a sonically enriching experience lol


----------



## Strobe (Oct 13, 2022)

My opinion is that no one has any business sounding worse for metal than EMG's into a 5150. Neither are my favorite, but both sound good (and feel good) - and from there you can adjust based on your preferences.

I do not think they are the best, however. I prefer the sound of the Mesa Mark series of amps, a PRS archon, a TC100, and several others to a 5150.

A 5150 is a little noisy, a little fizzy on the top end, and not *quite* what I want in the mids (and it is hard for me to explain that with words). It is more noticeable solo than in a band setting. I also hate the cleans on original 5150 and feel they sound a bit brittle and thin on the newer ones (although much improved). These are picky complaints for an amp that slays in general, but if we are talking the best bar none, I am going to be picky.


----------



## profwoot (Oct 13, 2022)

Strobe said:


> My opinion is that no one has any business sounding worse for metal than EMG's into a 5150. Neither are my favorite, but both sound good (and feel good) - and from there you can adjust based on your preferences.
> 
> I do not think they are the best, however. I prefer the sound of the Mesa Mark series of amps, a PRS archon, a TC100, and several others to a 5150.
> 
> A 5150 is a little noisy, a little fizzy on the top end, and not *quite* what I want in the mids (and it is hard for me to explain that with words). It is more noticeable solo than in a band setting. I also hate the cleans on original 5150 and feel they sound a bit brittle and thin on the newer ones (although much improved). These are picky complaints for an amp that slays in general, but if we are talking the best bar none, I am going to be picky.


Yeah I'd say the 5153 cleans are about as good or maybe not quite as good as my other two amps, an MT15 and Invective MH. The dirty tones are great though. They're not perfectly to my taste, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to justify trading up from a $800 amp to a $3k+ amp for whatever minor improvement. Then again I had no problem doing exactly that multiple times with guitars...


----------



## MatrixClaw (Oct 13, 2022)

profwoot said:


> Yeah I'd say the 5153 cleans are about as good or maybe not quite as good as my other two amps, an MT15 and Invective MH. The dirty tones are great though. They're not perfectly to my taste, but I don't know if I'll ever be able to justify trading up from a $800 amp to a $3k+ amp for whatever minor improvement. Then again I had no problem doing exactly that multiple times with guitars...


You already own 3 amps you could easily sell to get ~$2k for. What's another $1000? 

But seriously, I've owned tons of amps in that range and my opinion is that there's a huge diminishing return after the mid range of amps, like the EVH. You're chasing the extra 10% at a 100%+ increase in cost. There's a reason why, for years, even though I owned tons of expensive amps, I still ended up keeping my 5150. Dollar for dollar, they can't be beat and the old Peaveys did one GREAT sound, whereas more expensive amps try to do a bunch of them and always end up doing a few good ones, not great 

I will say, I'm still intrigued to try a Wizard. It's one of the few I haven't had my hands on yet, but I can't imagine an amp sounding so much better that it's worth that price tag, let alone something like a Deno, CCV or IIC+, which is what has kept me from buying them over the years. The hype behind those amps is so crazy that there's no way anyone is actually comparing them objectively.

This is the same with guitars, as well, though that number has gotten higher over the years because guitar prices are insane now. I've owned a Blackmachine B2 and can't understand for the life of me why those guitars are selling for $15k+ now. I have never played a guitar over the $3k mark that I felt sounded or felt any better than one half the price, however, I at least understand the pricing on the majority of them because you're getting an instrument totally customized to you - you pick the aesthetic, whereas most high end amps just come as-is and no one is likely to see it, anyway. I definitely don't get the ones like Tueffel, though. I guess he's doing some different things, but those prices be crazy


----------



## Flick (Oct 16, 2022)

Just ordered the 100w Stealth. Pretty stoked to see how it stack up against the Kemper. I’ve been using stealth profiles through a cab for band rehearsals.


----------



## FitRocker33 (Oct 16, 2022)

My 50w stealth has been the only amp I’ve had in the past few years that’s outsurvived all the others I’ve had…I’ve had two different KSRs, two Revv Generator mkII (this is the amp I was calling out for sounding neutered & held back) a PRS archon, and two amps I have major regret selling (a Wizard MC 50w & Mesa MkIV)

I’m hoping I can stave off amp GAS for a long while now that I’ve got a good 5150 & Marshall variant in the house.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 17, 2022)

Out of interest, which of the Peavey and EVH variants (5150, 5153, 6505, 6505+, 6153 etc) sounds best at bedroom volumes for high gain / distorted metal tones?

From the OP I am assuming the 50W version of all of these models are usable at low volumes, but perhaps the 5150/5153 is better than the older Peavey versions (or the newer Peavey renamed models).


----------



## NexusMT (Oct 17, 2022)

sonofabias said:


> Incoming Blacked out Engl E 642II Invader Probably tomorrow or Saturday morning delivery. It should be a sonically enriching experience lol



any ENGL is an enriching experience for your life.


----------



## MatrixClaw (Oct 17, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Out of interest, which of the Peavey and EVH variants (5150, 5153, 6505, 6505+, 6153 etc) sounds best at bedroom volumes for high gain / distorted metal tones?
> 
> From the OP I am assuming the 50W version of all of these models are usable at low volumes, but perhaps the 5150/5153 is better than the older Peavey versions (or the newer Peavey renamed models).


Definitely the EVH. I haven't played the 100w version in years, but the 50w sounds great at low volumes. I still prefer the overall tone of the original Peavey design if I was just going for full on metal tones, but can't fault the 50, there's honestly nothing to complain about there, every single channel sounds great and it's stupidly versatile.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Oct 17, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Out of interest, which of the Peavey and EVH variants (5150, 5153, 6505, 6505+, 6153 etc) sounds best at bedroom volumes for high gain / distorted metal tones?
> 
> From the OP I am assuming the 50W version of all of these models are usable at low volumes, but perhaps the 5150/5153 is better than the older Peavey versions (or the newer Peavey renamed models).


I'll agree with @MatrixClaw here. I'd say that _unassisted_ the 50w heads are the best I've tried for playing at low volumes. 

Honestly even the 5151/6505 are also pretty good at low volumes (through a 4x12) it's just suuuuper touchy to find that spot on their post gain knobs. 

Additionally, throw an EQ pedal like the MXR 10-band or similar in the loop (which is just a good idea anyway), or a passive volume pedal/box, and any of them is quite usable at low volume.


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 17, 2022)

MatrixClaw said:


> Definitely the EVH. I haven't played the 100w version in years, but the 50w sounds great at low volumes. I still prefer the overall tone of the original Peavey design if I was just going for full on metal tones, but can't fault the 50, there's honestly nothing to complain about there, every single channel sounds great and it's stupidly versatile.





Deadpool_25 said:


> I'll agree with @MatrixClaw here. I'd say that _unassisted_ the 50w heads are the best I've tried for playing at low volumes.
> 
> Honestly even the 5151/6505 are also pretty good at low volumes (through a 4x12) it's just suuuuper touchy to find that spot on their post gain knobs.
> 
> Additionally, throw an EQ pedal like the MXR 10-band or similar in the loop (which is just a good idea anyway), or a passive volume pedal/box, and any of them is quite usable at low volume.



I made the mistake of buying a 100W JCM900 combo years ago, which really isn't suited to bedroom playing and has *really* touchy volume & gain pots. I later replaced this with a Peavey Vypyr and quickly found myself using the 6505 and 6153 models a lot...then have spent years toying with the idea of getting an actual 6505 / 5150.


----------



## KailM (Oct 17, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Out of interest, which of the Peavey and EVH variants (5150, 5153, 6505, 6505+, 6153 etc) sounds best at bedroom volumes for high gain / distorted metal tones?
> 
> From the OP I am assuming the 50W version of all of these models are usable at low volumes, but perhaps the 5150/5153 is better than the older Peavey versions (or the newer Peavey renamed models).


I am happy playing my EVH 50-watt at low volumes; it sounds great. It gets better and better the louder I crank it, but that is not sustainable for practicing.

My OG 6505, on the other hand, just doesn’t sound that great until it’s moving some air. At band volumes it is an absolute monster, and beats the EVH, IMO.

The 6505+ I had sounded pretty good at low volumes; better than my regular 6505. I prefer the regular version though at higher volumes.


----------



## Werecow (Oct 18, 2022)

My EVH 50w 6L6 is by far the best low volume amp i've ever played as well. And by low volume, i mean all the way down to the same volume as my guitar is acoustically. It's pretty shockingly good at it.
I always favour amps that can be used down to bedroom practice level, but that amp i'll use in the middle of the night.


----------



## profwoot (Oct 18, 2022)

5153 is indeed great at low volumes. I also prefer the OG 5150 high gain tone, but will scratch that itch with plugins unless peavey ever releases a more practical version. Are those new 5150s Peavey announced last year ever coming out?


----------



## Neon_Knight_ (Oct 18, 2022)

profwoot said:


> 5153 is indeed great at low volumes. I also prefer the OG 5150 high gain tone, but will scratch that itch with plugins *unless peavey ever releases a more practical version*.


I'd guess that's what they were attempting to do (at least to some extent) with the Vypyr series.


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Oct 18, 2022)

profwoot said:


> 5153 is indeed great at low volumes. I also prefer the OG 5150 high gain tone, but will scratch that itch with plugins unless peavey ever releases a more practical version. Are those new 5150s Peavey announced last year ever coming out?


Those new 6505s _should_ be out soon I think. And there's always the MH version. I guess that's supposed to be more practical (depending on your definition I guess).


----------



## sonofabias (Oct 18, 2022)

NexusMT said:


> any ENGL is an enriching experience for your life.


Indeed


----------



## Flick (Nov 2, 2022)

What are you guys boosting your EVH stealth with?


----------



## drb (Nov 2, 2022)

Flick said:


> What are you guys boosting your EVH stealth with?


Precision Drive, it does everything I want from a boost.


----------



## maggotspawn (Nov 2, 2022)

Have one Incoming. Stoked.
6L6 in white tolex.


----------



## Nicki (Nov 2, 2022)

Flick said:


> What are you guys boosting your EVH stealth with?


Savage Drive V3 hitting the front end. Fender engager boost in the loop for volume and mid boost for solos.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Nov 7, 2022)

Neon_Knight_ said:


> Out of interest, which of the Peavey and EVH variants (5150, 5153, 6505, 6505+, 6153 etc) sounds best at bedroom volumes for high gain / distorted metal tones?
> 
> From the OP I am assuming the 50W version of all of these models are usable at low volumes, but perhaps the 5150/5153 is better than the older Peavey versions (or the newer Peavey renamed models).


I'm just spoiled by ENGLs because they have soooooo good master volume, that playing them at bedroom levels is a piece of cake. Controls are NOT touch sensitive so you can easily add or reduce volume by small increments. 
Unfortunately that is not the case with 5150, 6505+ or even EVH 5150 50W. Volume controls are super sensitive and small increment will result in big volume increment. Your best bet is to add EQ (into fx loop) with volume slider (on JHS pedal), then its super easy and it works great  Or any multi fx unit that has output levels.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Nov 7, 2022)

Flick said:


> What are you guys boosting your EVH stealth with?


I always end up using red channel that doesn't need boost. But if I boost blue channel from time to time I use Boss sd-1 or Maxon od808. Maybe MXR custom badass.


----------



## Boris_VTR (Nov 10, 2022)

Big reason why 5150 has fast rising volume pot:


----------



## Deadpool_25 (Nov 17, 2022)




----------



## Chris 78 (Nov 18, 2022)

Flick said:


> What are you guys boosting your EVH stealth with?


If I use red channel on my 5150 el34 50w, I don't use boost for rhythm.
For lead part or the blue chan, I boost it with a Boss SD-1: It's cheap, will live for 2 life, and work perfectlyl (for me at least)


----------

